# First time experiencing e-bike users on the trail, and a question



## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Ran a trail system yesterday after not being able to do any mtn biking for a few years. Ran across about 6 cyclists, 4 of which were on e-bikes. Nice enough chaps and exercised good trail etiquette. 

I have an honest question about e-bike riders, forgive me if it has been asked. Each of these guys I saw were younger guys, all appeared to be fit and in reasonably good shape. One was a little pudgy, but I'm not exactly in my Greek god phase anymore either. In short, all of these guys appeared as though they would have no trouble with non-assisted bikes. So the question....are these types of e-bike buyers simply not that interested in the fitness aspect of the sport? As in, they want to engage and have fun with the sport, but aren't willing or don't care to develop their fitness traditionally required of mountain biking? They all looked like they could do so if they were motivated. Just curious. I love the fitness part of it and can't understand why someone would not be interested in that part of it.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

BadgerOne said:


> are these types of e-bike buyers simply not that interested in the fitness aspect of the sport? As in, they want to engage and have fun with the sport, but aren't willing or don't care to develop their fitness traditionally required of mountain biking?


Is that so hard to believe? If they have fun and stick with riding (even on their e-bikes) they will get more fit whether they intended to or not.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

All of the e bike riders I have experienced have been middle aged fit men. I think this is who can afford the expense over a bicycle. I wonder if they really wanted a motorcycle instead but their wives wouldn't let them?
I don't really care as long a good etiquette is involved.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

For some it's a time issue, for some it's a love of technology, others want to be able to do absolutely massive rides on a more frequent basis,some want the climbs to hurt a little less, some suck, some don't have obvious external injuries, some are not as interested in the fitness aspect, etc etc. There is no one size fits all for anyone riding a eBike. Just like there is not one size fits all between the different dirt disciplines (cx, gravel, xc, downcountry, trail, enduro, freeride, downhill)


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Wait, so you’re telling me you cannot understand why someone wouldn’t want to bust out 30 miles, 7000’ elevation gain all before noon and still have time and energy to be with the family and get chores done, and then do it all again the next day? 

Just curious, how many miles and elevation did you do on this ride of yours?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Some people care more about having fun then the actual fitness part of riding.

You can go farther in a shorter amount of time.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## Huascaran (Jan 1, 2021)

Except they didn’t bust out 30 miles and 7000’…they busted out 15 miles and 3500ft. A motor did the remainder.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

RBoardman said:


> Wait, so you’re telling me you cannot understand why someone wouldn’t want to bust out 30 miles, 7000’ elevation gain all before noon and still have time and energy to be with the family and get chores done, and then do it all again the next day?
> 
> Just curious, how many miles and elevation did you do on this ride of yours?


I was just asking an honest question. Since this has forum has more pricks than a porcupine convention I knew people like you would come out of and get all puffed up on me over nothing, but that's part of the charm here, no? If confused, read the first sentence of this response again.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Huascaran said:


> Except they didn’t bust out 30 miles and 7000’…they busted out 15 miles and 3500ft. A motor did the remainder.


That brings a point I was trying to convey - the sense of accomplishment part. Maybe it is that more than the fitness itself, but a sense of accomplishment for me personally goes hand in had with a great day on the trail, and not just that it was simply fun. Different strokes and all that.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

BadgerOne said:


> I was just asking an honest question. Since this has forum has more pricks than a porcupine convention I knew people like you would come out of and get all puffed up on me over nothing, but that's part of the charm here, no? If confused, read the first sentence of this response again.


Ok, let me be more clear as a “fit and young” ebike enthusiast. 

Yes, I care about maintaining my fitness. 
Yes, I ride ebikes every week and do not worry about whether other bikers think I’m getting a good workout or not. (Hint, I am). 

Now want to answer my question, how big was your ride?


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Folks I know with e-bikes all seem to have perfectly reasonable reasons. like:

-Tired of shuttling or paying for lift tickets, and want to self-shuttle by pedaling up the shuttle route. 
-Want to spend more time on the fun parts of the trail, and would rather burn through the boring fire roads quickly to get to more fun sections of trail. More fun then wasting all day grinding and only getting in 10 minutes ride time on the actual fun stuff.
-The trails they like to ride really need 170+ mm of travel, but those bikes tend to be lousy climbers. 
-Ride their ebikes instead of driving to busy trailheads where there is never any parking anymore since covid.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

rlee said:


> All of the e bike riders I have experienced have been middle aged fit men. I think this is who can afford the expense over a bicycle. I wonder if they really wanted a motorcycle instead but their wives wouldn't let them?
> I don't really care as long a good etiquette is involved.


This is so true about this demographic - and having raced Moto in my distant past, I will not allow MYSELF to buy a motorcycle


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Read the thread about individuals that ride both; myriad of reasons. I ride MTB three rimes a week with my wife, and she likes to "hurt" so won't ride her e-bike (except very occasionally), so I ride mine only on one or two solo trips a week.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

BadgerOne said:


> That brings a point I was trying to convey - the sense of accomplishment part. Maybe it is that more than the fitness itself, but a sense of accomplishment for me personally goes hand in had with a great day on the trail, and not just that it was simply fun. Different strokes and all that.


That seems like a pretty subjective thing. Sense of accomplishment is highly personal, is it not? For you it might be measured in total miles ridden, or elevation gain, or some other measurement that an endurance athlete uses. For other people it could be just being able to get out of the office (or away from childcare duties) to ride one day per week, or something like that. You never know what's going on in other peoples' lives so I try not to judge.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

It takes a special type of porcupine convention to question other people's motivations to ride what they like to ride, and to judge for yourself whether other people are gaining fitness out of what they do or not.

Just sayin' ....


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

BadgerOne said:


> That brings a point I was trying to convey - the sense of accomplishment part.


My sense of accomplishment doesn't come from my MTB rides. The MTB rides are a realization of my fitness. I get my sense of accomplishment from consistency on my trainer / following structed rides, yoga, strength, racing, all day / planned adventure rides. The sense of accomplishment is a culmination of many different aspects of my life that leads to riding.

A ride is just something I do to blow off steam and help keep the stress from creeping too high. But a single ride is just a ride.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I currently own...

a road bike
a rigid mountain bike
2 FS mountain bikes
an ebike
an off-road motorcycle
...plus have owned probably 2-3 dozen bicycles (mostly mountain bikes) through the past 35 years that I've sold or given away as the sport's equipment has advanced and motivated me to try new equipment.

Answer -- they're all fun in their own way.

Yeah, I'm fit. But I'm fit because I love to get out there one way or another. As for the various 2-wheelers, I mix 'em up.

Like I said, they're each fun in their own way.
=sParty


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## CarlosTheJerk (May 31, 2018)

Some days I just want to get on the trails and have fun without as much work. I don't have an ebike but at this point that is the main reason I'd want one.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

r-rocket said:


> It takes a special type of porcupine convention to question other people's motivations to ride what they like to ride, and to judge for yourself whether other people are gaining fitness out of what they do or not.
> 
> Just sayin' ....


Good lord, I'm just trying to understand the perspective, I'm not judging. Aren't we supposed to be open-minded and learn different perspectives?


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Here's my call. 

E-bikes are all about FPH. Fun per hour. You can smash out more fun in that hour that what you can on a standard bike. 
You can choose to go hard out or choose to cruise. 

For descent orientated people like myself the ebike allows for more descending per hour and also add fun to the flat and up. 

With that said, I don't have an e-bike yet.... One day ill get one.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Let me help you:

"Why do you ride an eBike?" is an open-minded question to help learn different perspectives.

"are these types of e-bike buyers simply not that interested in the fitness aspect of the sport? " Is a judgmental question. You have made your point clear and everyone is already on the defensive. 

How we phrase our questions and the words we use matter. 

To prepare for downhill racing, Ben Cathro used an indoor trainer and weight lifting for the fitness and a eBike for technical on the bike skills.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

plummet said:


> Here's my call.
> 
> E-bikes are all about FPH. Fun per hour. You can smash out more fun in that hour that what you can on a standard bike.
> You can choose to go hard out or choose to cruise.
> ...


We're same-same. If there were more local trails that allowed ebikes I would have one by now. I'm ready, just waiting.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

cassieno said:


> Let me help you:
> 
> "Why do you ride an eBike?" is an open-minded question to help learn different perspectives.
> 
> ...


A curious presupposition and a judgement are two very different things. Shame more around here can't tell the difference. Aside from explaining my imperfect electronic dialogue, thank you for the answer. Interesting stuff for sure.


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

I find it difficult to believe that the OP simply can't imagine any reason why someone would want to ride a 2-wheeled contraption in the forest other than fitness. Which makes me think "troll". Don't feed 'em.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

*Fitness*: 15 years of riding and racing MTBs in my 20s to 30s did not make me particularly fit for running, backpacking, climbing, backcountry skiing, team sports, etc. It only made me a better MTBer, not even much of a roadie. Quite honestly, it was the most useless kind of fitness except in the context of having fun on a MTB on the sort of mild terrain that you can ride a MTB. (And if you think MTB terrain is anything but mild, then you have't tried anything.).

When MTBing was my main thing, I would fantasize about my fantastic capabilities in the very specific context in which MTBing made me king of the mountain. It took me awhile to accept how hilariously narrow that context would need to be.

So enjoying MTB fitness is fine and dandy. But failing to see that it doesn't really translate to that much else, and then failing to understand why somebody else would not hold it in the same elevated regard as you do... is a matter of a not having lived enough.

*Accomplishment*: Overcoming a challenge and/or doing something well is satisfying. But unless one has the sort of chip-on-one's-shoulder as only youth have... most people don't set out to challenge themselves or become virtuosos in everything that they do. Maybe because their day job is saving lives from burning buildings. Or curing cancer. Or making millions of dollars. Or helping people better their lives. Their afterglow is from elsewhere; they don't need to also one-handledly roll a cig in a smooth move. I mean, really... holding MTB "accomplishments" in the sort of exaggerated regard in which you can't imagine people not giving a sh!t is funny even in the mere context of outdoor adventure sports. MTBing is the most constructed and "game-like" of all the outdoor adventure sports, constrained in terrain, limited in abilities. Are you a technical explorer? MTBing doesn't get you anywhere interesting before the terrain becomes too rough. Are you a nomad or velocity junkie? MTBing doesn't get you nearly as far or as amped as a adventure/dirt bike.

MTBing is _useless_. Except for having the sort of giddy, sh!t-eating-grin, kinesthetic fun that we all knew as kids whirling around the neighborhood on our Huffys and Murrays... except a little more grown-up and a little farther from the throngs of humanity that we'd like a vacation from. I mean, some nature is fine... but it surely isn't _really_ that since a lot of us also enjoy conspicuously man-made thrills (specifically for the purpose of MTBing!) such as berms, pumps, jumps, etc.

If you can understand that, then you can understand why people might enjoy e-bikes/eMTBs. They're _fun_, and people who enjoy them aren't confused about the scale of the world.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

plummet said:


> Here's my call.
> 
> E-bikes are all about FPH. Fun per hour. You can smash out more fun in that hour that what you can on a standard bike.
> You can choose to go hard out or choose to cruise.
> ...


BadgerOne,

Here's the answer (above) to why some people who are otherwise fit want to ride an ebike. It's all about packing in as much fun as you can in what little time most have to ride.

I don't know if you've realized it or not, but most people these days don't have a ton of free time on their hands. 

In my case, I can usually find a couple hours a week to ride, IF the weather doesn't have the trails closed down.

So, if I figure I have two hours from the time I leave home until I need to be back home on a saturday to go for a ride, subtract an hour of that time for loading up and getting to and from the trails (closest one is about a 25 minute drive away), I have about 1 hour of ride time a week under normal circumstances. In that one hour of ride time, I can take my regular bike and do one or two laps at the local trails, thus hitting each fun feature only one or two times. Or, I could take my ebike and do three or four laps and hit each fun feature or trail section three of four times. Guess which option is more fun....

Translate that line of thought to the self shuttle bike park I go to when visiting my inlaws' place. I can do twice as many laps or more with the ebike because I can get to the top so much quicker and with less effort, which means more trips per day down the fun trails.

I don't ride because I want to get fit. I ride because it is fun, and that fun comes with a certain level of fitness that I'm OK with. If I wanted to dedicate more of my time to getting into tip-top shape, that goal would come at the expense of family time and my career, which I'm not OK with. Lots of folks have a life outside of riding bikes and chasing fitness. My world doesn't revolve around riding my bike and hitting the gym. It's quite the opposite actually.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

I made myself wait till I was 60 to get an e-bike. I shouldn't have. They're fun as hell, they're great for trips when you wanna ride as much as you can every day without getting fried, and they're great for when you wanna just kinda take it easy some days but still be able to rip the downhills. And yes, I care about fitness and am damn fit (for my age, haha) but this is just a different tool (toy) that rides basically the same as a regular mountain bike (mine's a lightweight Orbea Rise) without having to spend as much energy.


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## Hodo (Sep 30, 2014)

In this debate I have one question. The same question I've had since E-bikes started becoming a thing.
Why the F___ do you care what other people ride???
If the land use rules are followed, and people are courteous and use good trail ethics, again I ask WHY DO YOU care.
It seems like everyone wants to be this self righteous judge of everyone else. 

Remember America? The idea is we are free to do what we want within the confines of the written laws, and mind your own GOdDa__ business.

Yes there are complete douches out there. Some ride regular bikes some ride E-bikes.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

in over 40 years of biking, never once have i done it for my health, i do it for fun...


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

If your life is so busy that you need a motor to go get a "real" mountain bike ride in that's fine, just stay off of MTB trails. Also, that's a completely ridiculous argument. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## JerzyBoy (May 26, 2008)

BadgerOne said:


> Good lord, I'm just trying to understand the perspective, I'm not judging. Aren't we supposed to be open-minded and learn different perspectives?


There are so many different types of bikes/disciplines/riders out on the trails today. The minute anyone on here tries to ask a question about anything to gain insight or perspective, they get flamed for it. Its nuts. It’s like some people take it as a personal attack.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

PorcupineOne said:


> Good lord, I'm just trying to understand the perspective, I'm not judging. Aren't we supposed to be open-minded and learn different perspectives?


Good lord, you certainly are prickly for someone who just described members of this forum as "more pricks than a porcupine convention".

But you aren't judging, right?
Get over yourself, porcupine.


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## Schril (Oct 28, 2010)

Sparticus said:


> I currently own...
> 
> a road bike
> a rigid mountain bike
> ...


Totally off topic, but years ago I worked at a ski resort that sold Spaten beer. Would stop in for a beer or two after work. My buddy would always order a Sparticus! He was dead serious, never knew it was wrong. Complete classic.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

BadgerOne said:


> I love the fitness part of it and can't understand why someone would not be interested in that part of it.


People like different things. Every sport, hobby and lifestyle is like that. People get into it for a number of reasons. 
I have a few hobbies that take a back seat to Mtbing, people that are big into these other hobbies don't understand why I don't put in more effort. The guys on ebike might just be out doing a secondary hobby


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

JerzyBoy said:


> There are so many different types of bikes/disciplines/riders out on the trails today. The minute anyone on here tries to ask a question about anything to gain insight or perspective, they get flamed for it. Its nuts. It’s like some people take it as a personal attack.


So here's what I've learned today, between this post and yours. Roughly 20% of the posters on MTBR are either 

1) testosterone-addled dudebros
2) Pajama boys posting from their mom's basement 
3) Are mad as hell that their wife wears the pants and feeling emasculated
4) Are completely devoid of any level of natural curiosity or interest

Or some combination of the above. Either way they are about as useful as hockey cleats or a football bat, and seem to generally exhibit a similar level of intelligence to a shoebox full of doorknobs. Last time I checked, this is a discussion board, and instead of actually discussing anything they want to tell you there are a bunch of things wrong with you. And they wonder why forums are dying.

So good luck, and to those who posted actual meaningful responses, thank you. You maturity is noted.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

kpdemello said:


> Well people ride dirt bikes and those don't require any pedaling. I think e-bikes are kinda in that category, or maybe a hybrid between dirt bikes and mountain bikes. Dirt bike mopeds.
> 
> Personally I would feel like a huge weenie if I were on an e-bike while my riding buddies were on unpowered bikes, but not everyone feels this way. I know some folks who get a kick out of being able to do epic rides on e-bikes without being crushed afterward. To each their own, but I personally wouldn't shed a tear if e-bikes disappeared from the earth. But that's how I feel about dirt bikes, too.


Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

When I go dirt biking, nobody shows up on a mountain bike. Nor an ebike -- they bring dirt bikes.

Wanna go ebiking? Then go ebiking with other ebikers. Same for mountain biking. I do have one 74 y/o friend who occasionally rides his ebike when my GF & I invite him to join us on a mountain bike ride (he has a mountain bike and a road bike and sometimes he's tired from riding one of those but still wants to join us.) Anyway whenever he shows up with his ebike, he rides behind us. This is a man who understands grace.



WHALENARD said:


> If your life is so busy that you need a motor to go get a "real" mountain bike ride in that's fine, just stay off of MTB trails. Also, that's a completely ridiculous argument.


WHALENARD I always -- and I mean always -- appreciate your input because you bring a perspective that's not typically obvious but very nearly (if not always) right on. You're well articulated and respectful. Thank you. I gotta say the one thing that frustrates me is that you don't seem to be in the habit of employing the "reply" feature, which quotes whoever you're replying to. I'm occasionally left wondering just who that is.
=sParty


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

r-rocket said:


> Good lord, you certainly are prickly for someone who just described members of this forum as "more pricks than a porcupine convention".
> 
> But you aren't judging, right?
> Get over yourself, porcupine.


My porcupine statement can be statistically proven. It didn't really require you jumping in to help prove it, but knock yourself out.


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## JerzyBoy (May 26, 2008)

BadgerOne said:


> So here's what I've learned today, between this post and yours. Roughly 20% of the posters on MTBR are either
> 
> 1) testosterone-addled dudebros
> 2) Pajama boys posting from their mom's basement
> ...


I was interested to read this thread because I didn't even know Ebikes existed until about a month or so ago. I figured some of the responses would be less than mature. I think alot of people probably are going thru some stuff at home and take their frustrations out on various forums because no one listens to them anywhere else.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

JerzyBoy said:


> I didn't even know Ebikes existed until about a month or so ago.


gtfoh, nobody believes that bullsh!t. the most polarizing topic ever related to bikes and you've never heard of it before a month ago. please...


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Huascaran said:


> Except they didn’t bust out 30 miles and 7000’…they busted out 15 miles and 3500ft. A motor did the remainder.


True, but if the alternative is sitting on the couch, better to get out.

Honestly I could care less, as long as they are nice when they pass me lol.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

WHALENARD said:


> If your life is so busy that you need a motor to go get a "real" mountain bike ride in that's fine, just stay off of MTB trails. Also, that's a completely ridiculous argument.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


I’ll ride my ebike on whatever trail I want where it’s allowed, at any time that pleases me. If you don’t like that I’m there, please know that I DGAF.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

BadgerOne said:


> So here's what I've learned today, between this post and yours. Roughly 20% of the posters on MTBR are either
> 
> 1) testosterone-addled dudebros
> 2) Pajama boys posting from their mom's basement
> ...


Well, this is certainly interesting news! Apparently somebody said something you didn't like on the internet! This is clearly outrageous and can't be allowed to continue!

I'm starting a charity bike ride to right this great wrong that has clearly caused you so much suffering.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Huascaran said:


> Except they didn’t bust out 30 miles and 7000’…they busted out 15 miles and 3500ft. A motor did the remainder.


Busting out 15 miles and 3500ft is solid workout. No shame in busting out 15 miles/3500ft.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

WHALENARD said:


> If your life is so busy that you need a motor to go get a "real" mountain bike ride in that's fine, just stay off of MTB trails. Also, that's a completely ridiculous argument.


I really hope in 10 years there aren't another full set of trails I can't ride my mountain bike on because funding goes to building new eMTB trails that are for eMTB's only. 

It is bad enough that I can't take my mountain bike on a number of trails anymore because they are now hiker-only, because people couldn't just get along together on the same trails.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

One interesting thing I noted about those bikes on the trail is that they were silent under power. For some reason I expected some kind of noise or whir, but nothing. That's a positive.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

I'm for sharing most trails all the way around. That's good. However a question arises; at what point is it a motorcycle and not an ebike?
For safety concerns, they don't usually allow "motorized vehicles" on most singletracks. Where is the line drawn, and why does that make sense? I'm totally ebike ignorant.

Speaking to sense of accomplishment; it's quite rewarding overtaking an ebiker on your acoustic.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

What I find funny is that some people cant see past there own reality.... because they want to do something a certain way they cant fathom the alternative. 

He who is grinning the most wins...... If that guy is on a road bike or a e-bike or a bmx or a hard tail or or or or ........
it simply doesnt matter. Get out there an have fun the biggest grinner is the winner.

I'm going to tool up now ride. Why? because its tuesday and tuesday is the night i ride bikes.

To tomorrow is wednesday and do you no what happens on wednesday night????? its business time...


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

BadgerOne said:


> all of these guys appeared as though they would have no trouble with non-assisted bikes...are these types of e-bike buyers simply not that interested in the fitness aspect of the sport? but aren't willing or don't care to develop their fitness traditionally required of mountain biking? can't understand why someone would not be interested in that part of it.


Did you talk to these people? How do you know they don't ride mountain bikes (or road bikes) as well?


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

JaxMustang50 said:


> at what point is it a motorcycle and not an ebike?


28 MPH


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

BadgerOne said:


> I love the fitness part of it and can't understand why someone would not be interested in that part of it.


Beware, my friend. There are many who ride eMTB's who just might be stronger and more skilled than you. So before you decide to become judgmental, you might want to look in the mirror and ask yourself if your vast experience justifies your feelings of superiority.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

JaxMustang50 said:


> Speaking to sense of accomplishment; it's quite rewarding overtaking an ebiker on your acoustic.


It really shouldn't be that hard; travel-for-travel, eMTBs are disadvantaged against nonelectric MTBs in many downhill situations (except for the subset in which the greater sprung vs. unsprung mass ratio helps the suspension work) and/or past the assistance cutoff by virtue of either/both weight and difficulty disengaging the motor's sprag clutch. On many eMTBs, you "hit the wall" past the assistance cutoff (20 mph for U.S.-spec Class I eMTBs) not because of the cessation of assistance, which is the common misconception... but rather because you end up dragging the motor through what is effectively then a multiplier gearbox. The theory is that the clutch should disengage when you exceed the motor's output... but loaded sprag clutches ain't heard nuthin bout dat.

Also, because they're riding an eMTB... they're definitely not racing you. There's nothing to be gained by showing anybody that meat+motor is faster than just meat. (Most) everyone is trying to be respectful trail co-users, especially given the sensitivities-that-exist that everybody is acutely-aware-of by this point.


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## gipsyman (Nov 18, 2014)

BadgerOne said:


> I was just asking an honest question. Since this has forum has more pricks than a porcupine convention I knew people like you would come out of and get all puffed up on me over nothing, but that's part of the charm here, no? If confused, read the first sentence of this response again.


"MORE PRICKS THAN A PORCUPINE CONVENTION"

You really had me laughing on that one. My brother yesterday recounted how a 3 foot long porky where he lives in Texas was getting chased by his stupid little long haired dachshund. Luckily he was able to stop the dog from being injured. He had a chow dog years ago that wasn't so lucky and ended up with 106 quills in his face and mouth. Ouch!

Even e-mountain bikers have more in common with us than dually diesel truck driving a-holes that like to slow down and roll coal in your face for a laugh. I have 2 mtn. bikes and 4 road bikes so any kind of biker is alright with me.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

RustyIron said:


> Beware, my friend. There are many who ride eMTB's who just might be stronger and more skilled than you. So before you decide to become judgmental, you might want to look in the mirror and ask yourself if your vast experience justifies your feelings of superiority.


I have no doubt. I'm coming off of injury right now and easing back in after a 2 year hiatus, and even so I've never been and can never be a quarter horse like some guys, I'm just not built that way and never will be. Superiority complex? WTF are you talking about? Man, some of you guys read really weird sh!t into the things I've posted. It's like the damn real housewives of OC around here.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Juansan said:


> One of the joy's of non-assisted Mt Biking is being totally beat drinking a cold beer and taking a nap. Also, its not how far or how long its how hard you ride. Take the hard part away what do you have ? E-Bikes.


Au contraire - I get totally beat riding E because I no longer have the vigor of youth


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Studies have shown that eMTB riders do 90% of the work an analog rider does. It's not the crutch that so many like to promote them as being. 

In many ways, they're harder to ride than a standard analog bike, especially on the downhills. Managing a 50 pound monster truck takes way more strength and skill than the lightweight analog scalples many people ride. On the uphill, you can ride as easy or as hard as you want, but as you start to push the limits of battery range, that choice is mitigated. Let the motor do too much work, and you'll be humping a 50 pound bike home with no assist at all.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

Juansan said:


> One of the joy's of non-assisted Mt Biking is being totally beat drinking a cold beer and taking a nap. Also, its not how far or how long its how hard you ride. *Take the hard part away what do you have* ? E-Bikes?


A more enjoyable experience for those folks with a life that don't allow time for a drink and a nap after the ride...

More laps down the mountain at the self shuttle bike park...

More time with kids/family on the weekend because they're not out riding all day to get their two wheeled fix in, and not taking a nap when they get home totally beat down from the ride...

The satisfaction of pissing off the people who care more about how hard they work or how good their fitness is than they do about riding their bike...

The satisfaction of pissing off the people who think the way/where/when/why they ride their bike should be the only way anybody else should be allowed to ride a bike...


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

_CJ said:


> Studies have shown that eMTB riders do 90% of the work an analog rider does. It's not the crutch that so many like to promote them as being.
> 
> In many ways, they're harder to ride than a standard analog bike, especially on the downhills. Managing a 50 pound monster truck takes way more strength and skill than the lightweight analog scalples many people ride. On the uphill, you can ride as easy or as hard as you want, but as you start to push the limits of battery range, that choice is mitigated. Let the motor do too much work, and you'll be humping a 50 pound bike home with no assist at all.


Now see, this.....this is good information. I had no sense of how much physical exertion and manipulation was required to ride one of these in anger. I can say I never really thought of them as a crutch until I would see riders pass me on flat ground on 100% assist and thinking, this is the easiest part of riding....why aren't they at least pedaling here? Could be a million reasons of course. But having never ridden one, never researched one, and generally being uninformed on the assist portion of them my perspective was completely undeveloped. This helps my understanding tremendously.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

MX9799 said:


> The satisfaction of pissing off the people who care more about how hard they work or how good their fitness is than they do about riding their bike...
> 
> The satisfaction of pissing off the people who think the way/where/when/why they ride their bike should be the only way anybody else should be allowed to ride a bike...



Getting satisfaction from pissing people off is unhealthy imo.


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> Getting satisfaction from pissing people off is unhealthy imo.


Says the guy with the double bird avatar


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Tickle said:


> Says the guy with the double bird avatar



Just a joke, I never actually do that.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Huascaran said:


> Except they didn’t bust out 30 miles and 7000’…they busted out 15 miles and 3500ft. A motor did the remainder.


and?


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## Hodo (Sep 30, 2014)

This whole debate comes down to one thing. 

EGO

Puffed up chests, slamming fists on the table declaring only I know what's good or right.

How about STFU and mind your own business.

When a faster rider catches me on the trail, up or down, I stop and move off the trail for them to pass. So what. This is where the ego is playing out... Oh NO Johnny passed me on a climb and messed up my Strava!

I'd bet there are far more dic__eads out there being rude azzhats cuz there Strava is running vs E-bike douches.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Hodo said:


> This whole debate comes down to one thing.
> 
> EGO



Maybe for some but that's far from the whole debate.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

BadgerOne said:


> Now see, this.....this is good information. I had no sense of how much physical exertion and manipulation was required to ride one of these in anger. I can say I never really thought of them as a crutch until I would see riders pass me on flat ground on 100% assist and thinking, this is the easiest part of riding....why aren't they at least pedaling here? Could be a million reasons of course. But having never ridden one, never researched one, and generally being uninformed on the assist portion of them my perspective was completely undeveloped. This helps my understanding tremendously.


I've only ridden an ebike once, and when I did I had a BLAST riding it plus I got worked out pretty hard since I rode it like I stole it. I think people have the misconception that the rider simply sits up idly and lets the motor do all the work (untrue), similar to how people have the misconception that lift-served DH riding involves sitting idly letting gravity do all the work (also untrue). Some people also imagine a pedal-assist ebike has the oomph of a YZ250 (they don't).


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## mrpizza (Jun 2, 2013)

Nat said:


> Some people also imagine a pedal-assist ebike has the oomph of a YZ250 (they don't).


If they did I would own two of them. 

Wife has an ebike (not an eMtb, just a commuter style for rail to trail) because she has had 4 surgeries on one knee over the years. Pedal assist ebike allows her to ride where she couldn't before. Its got the shimano steps thing in it.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Hodo said:


> This whole debate comes down to one thing.
> 
> EGO
> 
> ...


What on Earth are you on about? Are you sure you're in the right thread? I started this thread and 4 pages in I don't recall anyone mentioning e-bike riders being douches, whether or not they were fast or slow, passing etiquette, or gonzo PR chasers. I was mining for information and perspective. Then again, it's kind of like a Friday night frat party in here where a couple of guys started drinking at ten in the morning, so carry on I guess.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

Hodo said:


> This whole debate comes down to one thing.
> 
> EGO
> 
> ...


That's pretty much it. A lot of posters say it's about access, but you can tell by the stories they have about their experiences with emtb riders that they just can't stand getting passed by someone else. There was one guy on here that posted a while back about an experience with ebikes. Through his posts, you could tell he just couldn't stand getting passed by folks on emtbs on the climbs. He complained about how he was getting smoked by the emtb riders on the climbs, and that some of them even had their seats dropped as they pedaled by or passed him while riding off the trail. He made out like the whole situation was dangerous because of the fast speeds of the emtbs, and hinted that emtb riders needed their own trails. The irony of the whole story was that the guy eventually revealed that all of these events occurred at a private bike park where emtbs were ALLOWED. The poster just sounded like a dude who thought he was a real badass on the climbs that just couldn't fathom how riding up the hill any faster than he was going should be possible or allowed.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

BadgerOne said:


> What on Earth are you on about? Are you sure you're in the right thread? I started this thread and 4 pages in I don't recall anyone mentioning e-bike riders being douches, whether or not they were fast or slow, passing etiquette, or gonzo PR chasers. I was mining for information and perspective. Then again, it's kind of like a Friday night frat party in here where a couple of guys started drinking at ten in the morning, so carry on I guess.


You sound like the Karen who demands to drag the birthday party's focus back to her when people start doing their own thing.

You own the thread as much as you paid for it.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

r-rocket said:


> 28 MPH


Am I correct in thinking that is the speed at which the motor no longer assists?
Dtew's post below also mentions 20mph for US Class I emtbs. From that, I take it there are different classes. Is this determined my the manufacturers or some government? I have never paid attention to any rules or regs regarding emtbs to notice if there are "class" restrictions on any trails I've ridden. I dont have an ebike but just want to be educated.




DtEW said:


> It really shouldn't be that hard; travel-for-travel, eMTBs are disadvantaged against nonelectric MTBs in many downhill situations (except for the subset in which the greater sprung vs. unsprung mass ratio helps the suspension work) and/or past the assistance cutoff by virtue of either/both weight and difficulty disengaging the motor's sprag clutch. On many eMTBs, you "hit the wall" past the assistance cutoff (20 mph for U.S.-spec Class I eMTBs) not because of the cessation of assistance, which is the common misconception... but rather because you end up dragging the motor through what is effectively then a multiplier gearbox. The theory is that the clutch should disengage when you exceed the motor's output... but loaded sprag clutches ain't heard nuthin bout dat.


Good info. You confirmed what I had suspected regarding the mechanics of these. Too bad they don't disengage completely.



DtEW said:


> Also, because they're riding an eMTB... they're definitely not racing you. There's nothing to be gained by showing anybody that meat+motor is faster than just meat. (Most) everyone is trying to be respectful trail co-users, especially given the sensitivities-that-exist that everybody is acutely-aware-of by this point.


To clarify, my statement wasn't coming out of an "us vs them" sentiment. I don't subscribe to that.
It's just a bit rewarding because it indicates you're doing something right with regards to technique and fitness. Even though piloted by a rider of lesser skill, that's still quite an advantage to overcome. I'm not the fastest or most skilled rider out there either (but I'm not too shabby), and that's why it's encouraging. Of course on most non-DH trails someone with the equal fitness and skillset will be faster on an emtb -but like you said, nobody's comparing the obvious.

As a side, I haven't looked into it, but out of sheer curiosity, I wonder how a pro XC guy would do in a race against an average weekend mtbr on an ebike? I know the variables are numerous, but an unscientific comparison on an average XC style singletrack would be interesting. Especially if the course involved different types of terrain and tech with separate timed segments.
It would also be of interest to me to see a pro DHer ride a course twice, once on an ebike and once on his usual. I know the assistance part would be null, but I'd be interested in seeing what the result would be due to the factors you mentioned. - ie. motor disengagement issues and suspension benefits/detriments.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

JaxMustang50 said:


> Am I correct in thinking that is the speed at which the motor no longer assists?
> Dtew's post below also mentions 20mph for US Class I emtbs. From that, I take it there are different classes. Is this determined my the manufacturers or some government? I have never paid attention to any rules or regs regarding emtbs to notice if there are "class" restrictions on any trails I've ridden. I dont have an ebike but just want to be educated.



*Class I* = pedal assistance only, assistance limit of 20mph. This is the vast majority of eMTBs, as this is the spec that is most widely allowed on trails.
*Class II* = throttle assistance capable, assistance limit of 20mph. This is fairly rare, and they are mostly intended as bikes for adaptive cycling (i.e. people who have physical problems with putting out much power with their legs). Some trails will allow this spec.
*Class III* = pedal assistance only, assistance limit of 28mph. This is common on e-bikes intended for the road. I don't know any trails that allow for these.
These definitions are agreed-upon by the bike industry and about half of the American States. (I believe those that don't simply have less-granular definitions). U.S. Federal regulations don't define classes, but just has definitions for what is-and-isn't a "low-speed electric bicycle". They encompass basically the same as the above system. The EU has different definitions, but most notable is that their assistance limit is significantly lower, at 15mph (this is to say, don't import an EU-sourced gray-market e-bike).

U.S. Federal regulations do specify a power limit for what qualifies as a "low-speed electric bicycle," though, which is 750 watts... which is almost exactly *one horsepower*. Can you see what they did there? 

(Think equestrian interests and preemptive silencing of their would-be objections.)



JaxMustang50 said:


> Good info. You confirmed what I had suspected regarding the mechanics of these. Too bad they don't disengage completely.


A further clarification: they _can_ disengage completely. This is to say that an eMTB can be ridden without assistance like a (very heavy) nonelectric MTB. The thing is that when sprag clutches are loaded under power, they don't disengage cleanly... but you can force a disengagement if you simply backpedal. Indeed, that is what I do when I'm riding with slower riders. You will see me pedal, backpedal, and then continue to pedal in the course of selecting the non-assist mode. But this is difficult to do when we're talking about breaking through the motor cutoff threshold under assistance of any sort, because you would need to do that sequence while keeping the bike wholly above the motor cutoff threshold. Any dip below the threshold the motor becomes active again, which loads-up the sprag clutch again.

As much as I have problems with the defeating of the engineered-in assistance cutoff for political reasons (i.e. I understand the balance of interests manufacturers/policy-makers/land-managers are dealing-with and the precedents they work under), I do understand why some people pursue it. It's not because they want to fly around the fastest parts of the trails any faster than a good nonelectric rider can. Indeed, the on-trail capabilities are restricted by the same things that constitute the performance ceiling of a nonelectric MTB: tire grip, suspension, and human capability. It's that it's an annoyance in the instances that you're used to going much faster on a nonelectric bike, which is usually the road segment before/after the trailhead.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

JaxMustang50 said:


> Am I correct in thinking that is the speed at which the motor no longer assists?
> Dtew's post below also mentions 20mph for US Class I emtbs. From that, I take it there are different classes. Is this determined my the manufacturers or some government? I have never paid attention to any rules or regs regarding emtbs to notice if there are "class" restrictions on any trails I've ridden. I dont have an ebike but just want to be educated.


The definition can change from state to state, but the majority of states that are actually relevant to the majority of eMTB buyers have all agreed to go by the same cut-offs for each class, with the 20mph and 28mph speeds mentioned before.

Here is what this forum guidelines say about this, so I'm not sure this is the right forum:



Francis Cebedo said:


> · If you cannot tell a difference between a motorcycle and class 1 or 2 ebike, please don't post.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Im glad ss riders dont rip your head off when you ask why they ride a ss! i guess they learned their lesson doing the same with fixie riders.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Maybe some have no car so they save time going to and back from the trails.
Maybe some fallow a trend.
Maybe some want to show they have good credit.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

JaxMustang50 said:


> As a side, I haven't looked into it, but out of sheer curiosity, I wonder how a pro XC guy would do in a race against an average weekend mtbr on an ebike? I know the variables are numerous, but an unscientific comparison on an average XC style singletrack would be interesting. Especially if the course involved different types of terrain and tech with separate timed segments.


No contest, a pro XC racer is crazy strong. Only place a “average weekend mtbr on an ebike” would have a chance is on climbs. Heck, i can keep up fairly well with a large number of emtbs except when it come to climbs, and im nowhere near “pro”.
To give you idea of their fitness levels, a pro road cyclistcan easily hit 28mph on flat road. Thats the assist max for class 3. The Tour de france winner averaged 25mph for the entire race, so that includes the climbs!


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Taroroot said:


> No contest, a pro XC racer is crazy strong. Only place a “average weekend mtbr on an ebike” would have a chance is on climbs. Heck, i can keep up fairly well with a large number of emtbs except when it come to climbs, and im nowhere near “pro”.
> To give you idea of their fitness levels, a pro road cyclistcan easily hit 28mph on flat road. Thats the assist max for class 3. The Tour de france winner averaged 25mph for the entire race, so that includes the climbs!


The course would have to be really specifically designed for ebikes, for them to be faster. I’ve raced ebike “xc” event on a track that was flattish and fast, and it was zero fun. It was basically a competition of who could hold the bikes over the 20mph speed limit the longest. And trying to sprint a 50lbs bike without the help of a motor wears you down very quickly. 

Buy with a tight course and steep punchy climbs, I’d like to think I could beat most xc riders if the race was short enough where I could stay in boost the whole time. But could I beat Nino, likely never.


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## Calsun (May 12, 2021)

If fitness is your sole objective then better to buy an indoor trainer. But for people who enjoy being outdoors on the roads or trails on a bicycle, the motor assisted ones allow people to go faster and farther. There are loops that have a 2000 ft elevation gain and are 30 miles in length and I myself would be more inclined to give them a try if I could fall back on a motor to provide a 15% gain in power. 

What I have found more odd is the need to buy a very expensive bike when the owner clearly is not a hard core rider. This is something I have seen for the past 55 years and it still rankles. I remember back in the 1970's when there would be middle aged men with very pronounced bellys sitting on their Colnago and Masi road bikes. 

At least with mountain e-bikes the people using them have reported that they go further or will get in an extra trail section with the e-bike as compared to their regular bike(s). It also allows less fit riders to keep up with others on a group ride. The groups often have a "no one gets left behind" practice but the taildraggers have to be less pleased at being the last ones and having others needing to wait for them to catch up.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Calsun said:


> If fitness is your sole objective then better to buy an indoor trainer. But for people who enjoy being outdoors on the roads or trails on a bicycle, the motor assisted ones allow people to go faster and farther. There are loops that have a 2000 ft elevation gain and are 30 miles in length and I myself would be more inclined to give them a try if I could fall back on a motor to provide a 15% gain in power.


I would like to add with an Ebike, you have a better chance of riding your bike to the ride - just gear up, ride out of your garage and cruise the back streets to your local trails etc.


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## Decreasing Dave (Dec 18, 2018)

Calsun said:


> "At least with mountain e-bikes the people using them have reported that they go further or will get in an extra trail section with the e-bike as compared to their regular bike(s). *It also allows less fit riders to keep up with others on a group ride. The groups often have a "no one gets left behind" practice but the taildraggers have to be less pleased at being the last ones and having others needing to wait for them to catch up.*"


THIS^^^^

I'm a taildragger. I'm getting better but I am always the one in the back, the one everyone is waiting for. I call it the "sweep" rider. It's an important job ya know. Besides, it takes someone with my special skills to do that job. Not everyone can ride that slow and not fall over. I can.

I have my YT Decoy on order. I like the weight of an ebike as I'm used to tossing around a 220lb KTM. I'm currently riding a Cannondale Bad Habit with 120/120 and it's definitely more of a trail bike. I'm making it work for the downhills the best that I can. I have ridden an ebike before and honestly, what I like about them most, is that I will be able to ride with the group and arrive without being SO SMOKED that my balance is off and my focus is waning on the subsequent downhill. I have no issue riding in the back, even with the ebike. I just want to ride WITH my friends, not have them wait for me every time.

That said, I do enjoy the feel of getting more fit. My intensions when I ride ebike is to ride in Eco or Trail mode. This affords me the assistance to help me out on the hills, but not to have the motor do it for me. I will be able to ride further and with, my more fit friends.

Dave


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## Francine (May 26, 2004)

DtEW said:


> It really shouldn't be that hard; travel-for-travel, eMTBs are disadvantaged against nonelectric MTBs in many downhill situations (except for the subset in which the greater sprung vs. unsprung mass ratio helps the suspension work) and/or past the assistance cutoff by virtue of either/both weight and difficulty disengaging the motor's sprag clutch. On many eMTBs, you "hit the wall" past the assistance cutoff (20 mph for U.S.-spec Class I eMTBs) not because of the cessation of assistance, which is the common misconception... but rather because you end up dragging the motor through what is effectively then a multiplier gearbox. The theory is that the clutch should disengage when you exceed the motor's output... but loaded sprag clutches ain't heard nuthin bout dat.
> 
> Also, because they're riding an eMTB... they're definitely not racing you. There's nothing to be gained by showing anybody that meat+motor is faster than just meat. (Most) everyone is trying to be respectful trail co-users, especially given the sensitivities-that-exist that everybody is acutely-aware-of by this point.


 I agree with you. I am much faster DH on my NON E bike. I also find the technical trails are harder to ride on my E bike. But they sure are fun and allow me to ride farther and longer and with a smile on my face


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Gonna love your Decoy. I had one, great bikes.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Francine said:


> I agree with you. I am much faster DH on my NON E bike. I also find the technical trails are harder to ride on my E bike. But they sure are fun and allow me to ride farther and longer and with a smile on my face


I’m the opposite, I believe I’m faster on the downs, not by much but still.. Tech sections are way easier for me, momentum is instant!


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

Nat said:


> Some people also imagine a pedal-assist ebike has the oomph of a YZ250 (they don't).


 meh i'm faster through tight sections on the levo than on the moto, that's me though


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## SkiTalk'er (Jun 26, 2021)

_CJ said:


> Studies have shown that eMTB riders do 90% of the work an analog rider does. It's not the crutch that so many like to promote them as being.


Please post a link to these studies. I'd like to see them, honestly as a eMTB rider, I don't think I am putting 90% of the same energy in as when I was riding my old analog bike, I think it's less, closer to 60-70% max especially where I ride.


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## SkiTalk'er (Jun 26, 2021)

DtEW said:


> A further clarification: they _can_ disengage completely. This is to say that an eMTB can be ridden without assistance like a (very heavy) nonelectric MTB. The thing is that when sprag clutches are loaded under power, they don't disengage cleanly...


The Fazua system does disengage pretty darn cleanly. My wife 40lb Trek E-Caliber w/o the drivepack is down to about 30lb and it rides pretty damn well..abotu the same as any other 30lb bike.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

SkiTalk'er said:


> Please post a link to these studies. I'd like to see them, honestly as a eMTB rider, I don't think I am putting 90% of the same energy in as when I was riding my old analog bike, I think it's less, closer to 60-70% max especially where I ride.


I agree, I would say like 50-60%. Just my personal feelings on Eco mode. But, none of it is work! No cash, no work. Rather just fun😳


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

SkiTalk'er said:


> Please post a link to these studies. I'd like to see them, honestly as a eMTB rider, I don't think I am putting 90% of the same energy in as when I was riding my old analog bike, I think it's less, closer to 60-70% max especially where I ride.











No, e-bikes aren’t cheating


We’ve got the science to prove it




www.theverge.com





"Researchers from Brigham Young University recruited 33 subjects, mostly men between the ages of 18 and 65, to ride both regular mountain bikes and electric, pedal-assist mountain bikes on a rolling six-mile, single-track course through the Utah countryside. Afterward, they compared their heart rates and found that riding an e-bike is no effortless fling......The average heart rate of a test subject riding an e-bike was 93.6 percent of those riding conventional bikes."

.


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## SkiTalk'er (Jun 26, 2021)

_CJ said:


> No, e-bikes aren’t cheating
> 
> 
> We’ve got the science to prove it
> ...


Thank you. I still don't think it is that much... at least not for me and where I ride.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

SkiTalk'er said:


> Thank you. I still don't think it is that much... at least not for me and where I ride.


As the article says, it does, it just doesn't feel like it. My theory is that there's more muscle being used, and less aerobic, kind of like weight lifting vs. cardio. Both get the heart pumping, but only one gets the lungs heaving. Recent science has shown that weight lifting alone can be of similar benefit to cardio, even though it doesn't seem like it should.


.


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## Hodo (Sep 30, 2014)

I've gotten very little seat time on an Ebike.
The times I did, I made buckets of sweat and my heart rate was similar and even occasionally higher than what I sustain on my analog bikes.
The only difference I noticed was the same as in the quoted study. I was going faster.
Of course I'm referring to pedal assist only bikes. If it goes without pedaling, it is in fact a moped.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Interestingly, when I used to ride a motorcycle on singletrack trails, my heart rate and calories burned were virtually identical to my MTB stats.


.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

_CJ said:


> As the article says, it does, it just doesn't feel like it. My theory is that there's more muscle being used, and less aerobic, kind of like weight lifting vs. cardio. Both get the heart pumping, but only one gets the lungs heaving. Recent science has shown that weight lifting alone can be of similar benefit to cardio, even though it doesn't seem like it should.


That's similar to downhilling at a bike park. People who've never done it might imagine sitting up and placidly rolling down the hill without breaking a sweat. In reality, throwing a 38# bike around for a few hours will work you over. It's a case of "don't knock it until you've tried it."


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Nat said:


> That's similar to downhilling at a bike park. People who've never done it might imagine sitting up and placidly rolling down the hill without breaking a sweat. In reality, throwing a 38# bike around for a few hours will work you over. It's a case of "don't knock it until you've tried it."


Downhilling hammers you no doubt! I used to get great work outs riding moto x. Bike parks waste me, especially on an ebike. I feel more upper body workout than a mtb. But, as said I just ride for fun.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

That's why motocross riders are extremely fit, muscling around their bike.


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

Interesting CJ, I can totally see that in eco mode but trail mode feels like much less, like maybe 75-80%. I didn't see mention of assist levels.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

chazpat said:


> That's why motocross riders are extremely fit, muscling around their bike.


This is why I only eat at buffets. Much more work walking around all those big tables of food. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

_CJ said:


> No, e-bikes aren’t cheating
> 
> 
> We’ve got the science to prove it
> ...





Interesting but the research would be more revealing if they had also used power meters in their tests. Heart rate percentages don't directly correlate to exertion. Also worth noting that though their hr's were at ~93% they were also going 4mph faster.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Although I admire tests, which I don’t really care whether you are working at 90% or 10% on a emtb, my seat of the pants, and I know everyone is different, but on flow trails, flow is flow bro! Weight and momentum will always trump. I still say 50-60% overall where I ride is where “I’m at” The more climbing the ebike helps tremendous. But at the end of the day, who cares? If you want the extreme work out on a bike, ride a mtb or turn your ebike off. We all share the common rush of being on two wheels in the woods or desert, whatever.


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## markloch (Jul 15, 2021)

I'm 60 and I get plenty of workout riding my Rail 25 miles and 3500 vf in two hours 4-6 times a week. My heart rate averages 130-140 depending on the ride and how hard I ride. I burn about 1000 calories. My cardiologist is thrilled with the results. I had been off my bike for a decade, and there's no way I'd be riding my dust-gathering '95 Cannondale enough to get the same level of exercise - it's simply not as much fun, and the hills around here are discouraging as all hell for an old dude trying to get into shape again. I tried. No thank you.


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## PTCbiker (Sep 15, 2020)

BadgerOne said:


> .
> 
> I have an honest question about e-bike riders, forgive me if it has been asked.


I rode an afternoon with 3 rich guys who had very high end e-bikes, all worth more than my 9 year old Tacoma. I was pleasantly surprised to third guy up the hill most of the time instead of a distant last. I was asking about why they rode ebikes and to a man they said they don't get enough time to ride enough to maintain a high level of bike fitness and they wanted to get in serious miles when they do ride.

As for me, the accomplishment is a big part of it. If riding an old school bike means I can't conquer Everest I'm okay with that. Most days I do feel like I 'conquer' whatever I set out to do.


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## markloch (Jul 15, 2021)

[QUOTE="PTCbiker, post: 15464486, member: 888005"

As for me, the accomplishment is a big part of it. If riding an old school bike means I can't conquer Everest I'm okay with that. Most days I do feel like I 'conquer' whatever I set out to do.
[/QUOTE]

I don't get why some think riding an emtb isn't for fitness, or that you can't get the same sense of accomplishment from riding one. If I get the same amount of exercise riding 30 miles and 5k vf fit in two hours that someone else does riding a regular bike riding 10 miles in an hour, what's the difference in fitness or one's sense of accomplishment? Whatever floats your boat. 

The guy who skins up a mountain and takes a couple of runs over the course of the day, vs the guy who takes lifts and hammers out a 35k vf day - whose to say who accomplished more? I've done both, and I can't tell you which felt like a greater accomplishment. Or which was more grueling. Apples and oranges. (That said, my best ski days are lift-assisted side country days, which in my mind is similar to riding an emtb: you put is as much work as you're comfortable putting in). 

Most of the people I see on emtbs are like me, 60+. I also know riders in their 30's up who are fit as all hell and ride a Spesh Levo SL or Orbea Rise and swear they will never, ever go back.


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## PTCbiker (Sep 15, 2020)

I hear you, I'm just happy riding my Giant Trance X whether it's a quick 8m ride or an epic 35 mile day. I won't ride an E-bike for the same reason I won't try my friends Santa Cruz...ignorance is bliss.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

RETROROCKS said:


> Arent most trails non e- bike trails? They are in my neck of the woods!


Not in Jefferson County Colorado, any state park in Colorado, or any BLM land in the country.


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## markloch (Jul 15, 2021)

RETROROCKS said:


> Arent most trails non e- bike trails? They are in my neck of the woods!


This is useful for state-by-state rules https://super73.com/pages/laws-and-policies-for-e-bikes

I'm in California, and as the doc says "On federal, state, county and local trails, e-mountain bike (eMTB) access varies significantly".

In my immediate area (just north of SF) we have a lot of fire roads available for biking, but few trails (singletrack) are open to bikers. And for good reason: lots of hikers, lots of bikers, lots of steeps, lots of blind turns, and a lot of visitors. The land is a mix of federally managed parks, state parks, water-district-managed public lands, and locally-managed open space. It results in a hodge-podge of emtb rules, but all the fed stuff - GGNRA - allows ebikes. And where they're not allowed, there's a degree of tolerance on the fire roads, partly because it's not that obvious if your class 1 (you have to pedal) and if you're not being a dick.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

"it's not that obvious if your class 1 (you have to pedal) "
Never is obvious no matter what your riding. But like you said it all depends on the area your riding, I've read stories of NY state and NYC on ebikes and hopefully they've been changed. Times are changing, people are getting older and the government wants people to be more active. I've seen zero signs in the government parks I go to but I ride in the city not government parks. I think the state government slapped up one sign in an obscure area, but that "state" park is within a city so.


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## turbolscivic94 (Nov 8, 2021)

Huascaran said:


> Except they didn’t bust out 30 miles and 7000’…they busted out 15 miles and 3500ft. A motor did the remainder.


thats a big hop to assume you know the settings and what bike they have. Maybe they did 25mi, maybe they did less. Pedal assist bikes are pretty awesome in how much you can adjust it all.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

I’m not fit nor do I care, I ride my ebike to get out and enjoy the fresh air and have some fun. It was nice to ride in a group ride and actually keep up with the racers. But there all dicks and didn’t like the fact I was able to keep up so now I ride solo.


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## JumpinMacaque (Jan 26, 2010)

markloch said:


> This is useful for state-by-state rules https://super73.com/pages/laws-and-policies-for-e-bikes


This source is a good starting point, but remember that P4B is going with the most optimistic or broad definition. For instance in Montana, they say that e-bikes are allowed on the sidewalk. Really it should say that there is no state rule prohibiting you from riding on the sidewalk, but all 8 towns that have sidewalks have a rule against biking on the sidewalk. Just kidding, we have more than 8 towns, but seriously, they usually prohibit you from riding on the sidewalk. Just remember it's a starting point not a pass.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

sml-2727 said:


> I’m not fit nor do I care, I ride my ebike to get out and enjoy the fresh air and have some fun. It was nice to ride in a group ride and actually keep up with the racers. But there all dicks and didn’t like the fact I was able to keep up so now I ride solo.


Damn bud, bunch of butt hurt riders. Better off without them.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Gutch said:


> Damn bud, bunch of butt hurt riders. Better off without them.


Why would they want an ebiker amongst them? These guys are working heard and earning it.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Crankout said:


> Why would they want an ebiker amongst them? These guys are working heard and earning it.


Whatever.


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

Crankout said:


> Why would they want an ebiker amongst them? These guys are working heard and earning it.


Earning it? Na. They are using high technology to glide over the ground much faster than their legs can carry them. They are earning it if they are running up and down the mountain as nature intended. Instead they use wheels, gears, grease, etc, as a crutch to make it easier. Next thing you know they will be using magnetic fields and electrons to assist on climbs.

Some bicyclists, "We are using engineering to assist our efforts. How dare you use more engineering to assist your efforts. Our level of assist is the right level, by law!"


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

I’m 68 and have been riding home built mid-drive E-MTB’s for years now. I think that changing the image of bicycling from that of a machine for people to train on to that of a machine to have fun with is a huge advance. My intent is to get off the roads and out of suburbia for a few hours a week, to get to places farther down the trail than I could get in the same time as my daily walks. Frankly I could not care less how many calories I burn nor what my heart rate is, I just want to get out into nature, far from the sounds and sights of traffic and an E-MTB is my means of doing that. Nothing more and nothing less.

As far as “not earning” something, what does that even mean? Where does it say at the trailhead that access is restricted to only the hale and hearty? If someone prefers to see their MTB as a mobile exercise machine, more power to them, they are more than welcome to see their rides as just another trip to the outdoor gym. But







that does not give me or them any right to judge the choices of others. We have all earned the right to ride whatever bike we want, wherever it is permitted. We are all ”worthy”, even those who don’t e-bike.


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## Decreasing Dave (Dec 18, 2018)

I am buying an ebike. I have one on order. I ride now but I am the "sweep" rider, haha. It's the most important job and not everyone can do it. Mainly because not everyone can keep their balance at the slow speeds I go.

I have several hobbies, streetbike, motocross and MTB. I try to find time to do them all as much as I can. That said, I'm 55 years old and have only been riding MTB for a few years. If I miss a couple of weeks, I seem to lose most of the strength and endurance and I gain in the previous weeks. I feel like I have to start over EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.

The ebike will allow me to enjoy riding even if I miss a week or three in-between. Plus, I can ride WITH my more fit friends instead of them having to wait for me.

I won't be riding an ebike for speed, I'll be riding to give me just enough extra boost to allow me to keep up with my friends and to also not be so smoked that I can enjoy the ride and maybe ride longer.

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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Decreasing Dave said:


> I am buying an ebike. I have one on order. I ride now but I am the "sweep" rider, haha. It's the most important job and not everyone can do it. Mainly because not everyone can keep their balance at the slow speeds I go.
> 
> I have several hobbies, streetbike, motocross and MTB. I try to find time to do them all as much as I can. That said, I'm 55 years old and have only been riding MTB for a few years. If I miss a couple of weeks, I seem to lose most of the strength and endurance and I gain in the previous weeks. I feel like I have to start over EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.
> 
> ...


The fitness thing is pretty standard. The longer you ride consistently, the longer you hang on to your endurance when you take a break. I remember feeling like you are when I first started. Now, after thirty years of riding, I notice a loss of fitness in the spring, after a whole winter of riding less frequently, and riding shorter rides, but that's about it.

The ebike will probably get you out more often, and for longer, so it should help build up a good base going forward.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Huascaran said:


> Except they didn’t bust out 30 miles and 7000’…they busted out 15 miles and 3500ft. A motor did the remainder.


But at the end of the day, who cares? Doesn't have to bother you, does it?

Heck, friend of mine took me out snowmobiling(I hadn't ridden one in 30 years)..... That was "motor" all day long.
I was thoroughly beat up and tired at the end of the day (and we were on pretty mild terrain due to my lack of skill) lol.

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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Shark said:


> But at the end of the day, who cares? Doesn't have to bother you, does it?
> 
> Heck, friend of mine took me out snowmobiling(I hadn't ridden one in 30 years)..... That was "motor" all day long.
> I was thoroughly beat up and tired at the end of the day (and we were on pretty mild terrain due to my lack of skill) lol.
> ...


Hell yeah, I used to snowmobile all the time, punished me in a good way. Damn good times, expensive though 🥴


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

I agree, but they aren't going away anytime soon. I'm choosing not to worry about it, too much other crap these days to get me worked up lol.

Last summer I came across a group of 4 or 5 riders, all on e bikes. (Technically on a trail that they were not allowed on) You could tell probably only 1 was an experienced rider, the others definitely wouldn't have made it to where we were, on regular bikes.

I saw them for about a minute as I rode by, meh, what can you do?

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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

Shark said:


> Heck, friend of mine took me out snowmobiling(I hadn't ridden one in 30 years)..... That was "motor" all day long.
> I was thoroughly beat up and tired at the end of the day (and we were on pretty mild terrain due to my lack of skill) lol.


I ride mountain sleds all winter - it's probably tied with MTB as favorite sport. It's also the most physically demanding sport I've ever tried, even with a 200hp turbo. Probably because most of your mistakes are punished by having to dig a 600 lb sled out of the trench it's dug itself into  

Interestingly enough it gives me a unique perspective on something like riding e-bikes (or dirt bikes), and that's that for me, it's just all about manipulating various forms of energy to create flow. On a regular mountain bike you've got your own energy and gravity. On a sled or a dirt bike you've got the throttle, your own energy (through your arms and legs as you yank the thing around) and also gravity - especially with a sled - and an e-bike is similar, although the amount of energy from the motor is much less. But I couldn't really care less where the energy comes from, for me the "flow state" is combining all the various forms of energy together to manipulate this thing I'm riding to create flow.

Other sports are similar: surfing is you and the gravitational force from the moon. Wakeboarding is you and the energy from a boat. Wakesurfing is still you and the energy from the boat (because it's the thing pushing its energy into the wave it creates that you then surf). It's all the same thing just to create that moment of zen.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

BadgerOne said:


> Ran a trail system yesterday after not being able to do any mtn biking for a few years. Ran across about 6 cyclists, 4 of which were on e-bikes. Nice enough chaps and exercised good trail etiquette.
> 
> I have an honest question about e-bike riders, forgive me if it has been asked. Each of these guys I saw were younger guys, all appeared to be fit and in reasonably good shape. One was a little pudgy, but I'm not exactly in my Greek god phase anymore either. In short, all of these guys appeared as though they would have no trouble with non-assisted bikes. So the question....are these types of e-bike buyers simply not that interested in the fitness aspect of the sport? As in, they want to engage and have fun with the sport, but aren't willing or don't care to develop their fitness traditionally required of mountain biking? They all looked like they could do so if they were motivated. Just curious. I love the fitness part of it and can't understand why someone would not be interested in that part of it.





cassieno said:


> Let me help you:
> 
> "Why do you ride an eBike?" is an open-minded question to help learn different perspectives.
> 
> ...


Stopped caring about people on ebikes. Its ridiculous concept but if people want to use it so be it.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Stewiewin said:


> Stopped caring about people on ebikes. Its ridiculous concept but if people want to use it so be it.


What’s ridiculous is that you are in an Ebike forum. Wtf? So, by your logic, anybody riding an ebike you don’t care about? This here is the problem, when did you lose your human decency? People are people riding whatever they choose. It’s a bike man. Should we ask you for permission? Damn


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I’ve never seen anyone busted. Yes, it is very vast.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

Prognosticator said:


> I ride analog bikes. I have a riding buddy who rides an e-bike. He's a good dude and has offered several times to let me try his e-bike. I have declined because I am afraid I will like it too much!
> 
> A serious question for the thread, like those who ride Pisgah a lot: How do the authorities enforce the ban? Have you ever seen someone busted for riding an e-bike? Are there fines?
> 
> It seems these places are so vast and un-patrolled that the ban would be essentially impossible to enforce.


If you are afraid you will like it too much then don’t ride one, because you will like it too much. Ebikes aren’t for invalids, they kick ass! I have been in the sport since the early 80’s and have seen the MTB’s incredible development since that time to where they are today. Ebikes are like making the first mountain bike all over again. They are gamechangers pure and simple, and the most fun I have ever had in my life on a “self” propelled 2 wheeler. 
Rock on brothers 


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

shreddr said:


> If you are afraid you will like it too much then don’t ride one, because you will like it too much. Ebikes aren’t for invalids, they kick ass! I have been in the sport since the early 80’s and have seen the MTB’s incredible development since that time to where they are today. Ebikes are like making the first mountain bike all over again. They are gamechangers pure and simple, and the most fun I have ever had in my life on a “self” propelled 2 wheeler.
> Rock on brothers
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Amen brother, well said!


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Huascaran said:


> Except it does impact others....They’ll bring more people and allow those people to ride farther than they would have otherwise.


Agreed. ebikes do allow some people to ride father, like from their house to the trailhead, which reduces traffic on the roads that access the trailhead, and reduces parking headaches at the trailhead. So, yeah, ebikes do impact others, positively.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

nilswalk said:


> I ride mountain sleds all winter - it's probably tied with MTB as favorite sport. It's also the most physically demanding sport I've ever tried, even with a 200hp turbo. Probably because most of your mistakes are punished by having to dig a 600 lb sled out of the trench it's dug itself into
> 
> Interestingly enough it gives me a unique perspective on something like riding e-bikes (or dirt bikes), and that's that for me, it's just all about manipulating various forms of energy to create flow. On a regular mountain bike you've got your own energy and gravity. On a sled or a dirt bike you've got the throttle, your own energy (through your arms and legs as you yank the thing around) and also gravity - especially with a sled - and an e-bike is similar, although the amount of energy from the motor is much less. But I couldn't really care less where the energy comes from, for me the "flow state" is combining all the various forms of energy together to manipulate this thing I'm riding to create flow.
> 
> Other sports are similar: surfing is you and the gravitational force from the moon. Wakeboarding is you and the energy from a boat. Wakesurfing is still you and the energy from the boat (because it's the thing pushing its energy into the wave it creates that you then surf). It's all the same thing just to create that moment of zen.


People who go on about eMTB's not being a workout have no idea what they're talking about. It is a different workout though. It seems easy while you're doing it, but it's more muscular in nature, and you definitely end up feeling it that night, and the next day. At least I do. I did 22 miles and 4000 feet yesterday, and I was definitely sore from it. Upper body, and legs. I did a similar ride on my analog bike a week ago, and wasn't sore at all. Just kind of drained/fatigued, which I don't get as much from the eMTB.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

_CJ said:


> People who go on about eMTB's not being a workout have no idea what they're talking about. It is a different workout though. It seems easy while you're doing it, but it's more muscular in nature, and you definitely end up feeling it that night, and the next day. At least I do. I did 22 miles and 4000 feet yesterday, and I was definitely sore from it. Upper body, and legs. I did a similar ride on my analog bike a week ago, and wasn't sore at all. Just kind of drained/fatigued, which I don't get as much from the eMTB.


I get a work out after, drinking beer!


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## Huascaran (Jan 1, 2021)

_CJ said:


> Agreed. ebikes do allow some people to ride father, like from their house to the trailhead, which reduces traffic on the roads that access the trailhead, and reduces parking headaches at the trailhead. So, yeah, ebikes do impact others, positively.
> 
> View attachment 1958388


Laughable. I guarantee the ratio of people riding their e-bikes to trailheads vs the number driving them to the trail is very small, and likely not very different than for non motorized bike.


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## Prognosticator (Feb 15, 2021)

I think folks should be able to enjoy mountain biking and the outdoors any way they want as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on the environment and others trying to do the same. This is why I don't pass judgement on people riding e-bikes. I haven't seen them to be a negative where I live. I don't judge people hunting, either. I don't necessarily understand hunting, it's a culture that's opaque to me, but they are partaking in a time-honored tradition.

All sports have their hierarchies. When it's right, those hierarchies are based on respect for difficulty.

While I am not a hunter, I know plenty who are. My understanding is that there are hierarchies according to difficulty and danger. The Texas trophy hunter who pays $100K to be driven out into the Sarah in an air conditioned Land Rover to kill a water buffalo with a laser-scoped rifle gets less respect than the guy who hikes a mountain range to kill a grizzly with a bow. One is way more difficult than the other.

Isn't it natural for there to be a hierarchy in respect to mountain biking?

I do all of my riding in the Southern Appalachians, foothills and Piedmont. Roots, rocks, streams, up and down. Given the same distance and terrain, I have a hierarchy of respect:

1) Unicycle
2) Rigid single speed
3) Fully rigid hardtail
4) Hardtail with suspension fork
5) Full suspension (This is me, but not going granular into suspension travel)
6) e-Bike (I'm not familiar enough with the classes to go into much detail)

When I see someone who is higher up on the hierarchy, I have been known many times to show them respect by commenting on how impressed I am. Except for the time I saw a guy in a unicycle. I was too gobsmacked to comment, and a regret it to this day.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Prognosticator said:


> I think folks should be able to enjoy mountain biking and the outdoors any way they want as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on the environment and others trying to do the same. This is why I don't pass judgement on people riding e-bikes. I haven't seen them to be a negative where I live. I don't judge people hunting, either. I don't necessarily understand hunting, it's a culture that's opaque to me, but they are partaking in a time-honored tradition.
> 
> All sports have their hierarchies. When it's right, those hierarchies are based on respect for difficulty.
> 
> ...


I saw a rider on a E-unicycle. Jk🍺


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

If the reason you ride is for respect, then there are probably better ways to earn kudos, like rock climbing. If the reason you ride is for fun, then flip your hierarchy 


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## Prognosticator (Feb 15, 2021)

shreddr said:


> If the reason you ride is for respect, then there are probably better ways to earn kudos, like rock climbing. If the reason you ride is for fun, then flip your hierarchy
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Much respect to rock climbing. I have a good friend who's son is a nationally ranked rock climber. I've learned from talking to him that that is a sport with a definite hierarchy.


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

Prognosticator said:


> I have a hierarchy of respect:
> 
> 1) Unicycle
> ...


Totally random aside, but I once encountered a family (mom, dad, 2 kids) riding unicycles up a reasonably difficult single-track trail I was riding. The dad was in the lead, riding his with, it must be said, incredible skill up some rocks, and he had a look on his face like "Isn't this AWESOME?!?!". The mom & the 2 kids were following (all of them walking the rock section) and the looks on the kids faces were pretty much "we're adopted, right?"


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Sorry, I don’t have time to read through the entire thread. Deleted some posts, please keep being respectful. Topics are going all over the place. If you are completely against Ebikes, please go
To another sub-form. I will definitely delete your posts. 

Where I ride my ebike, the local high school XC team rides often and on climbs in Trail mode, they’ll pass me. I’m amazed at how fast some people can go on a mountain bike. Yes, I still get a good workout, not the same as with a regular bike, but most are fine with that. 

What I love about riding is getting away and having fun. With an ebike, the fun is extended to not only the DH part but the entire ride. And that is the part of biking I love is the down hill and getting out. Everyone is different in what they enjoy, some love the climbing part and that’s great! Please be respectful on this site and out on the trails! 


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## SkiTalk'er (Jun 26, 2021)

shreddr said:


> If you are afraid you will like it too much then don’t snort it, because you will like it too much. Cocaine isn't for invalids, it kicks ass! I have been doing drugs since the early 80’s and have seen cocaine'ss incredible development since that time to where they are today. Cocaine like making the first drugs all over again. It is a gamechangers pure and simple, and the most fun I have ever had in my life on a “self” propelled 2 wheeler.
> Rock on brothers


Changed EMTB to Cocaine.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Cheaters are only the ones that drive or own any fuel driven exhaust smoked vehicle. I never seen the guy before but he is the ultimate cheater cheater with his thin tires on his bike and wearing Lycra. Wished I cared to mess with him, twisting the throttle but I was in Zen mode, at one with nature and my ebike.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

I miss mountain biking. I left the sport a year ago because I couldn't physically do it like I used to. My disabilities from military service trashed my body really bad and I knew it would eventually catch up. I really want to get an eMTB so I can at least pedal on gravel and trails but i don't want to explain to other riders why I ride one. I was asked frequently when I rode an e-gravel bike last year. I gave people the short and sweet version and most just rolled their eyes as if I wasn't good enough to be on a bicycle or something. I never realized there were so many rules to riding a bicycle. 

My local Specialized dealer is very supportive though! They gave me their opinion and said whenever I'm ready to make the jump, they will take care of me.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Battery said:


> I miss mountain biking. I left the sport a year ago because I couldn't physically do it like I used to. My disabilities from military service trashed my body really bad and I knew it would eventually catch up. I really want to get an eMTB so I can at least pedal on gravel and trails but i don't want to explain to other riders why I ride one. I was asked frequently when I rode an e-gravel bike last year. I gave people the short and sweet version and most just rolled their eyes as if I wasn't good enough to be on a bicycle or something. I never realized there were so many rules to riding a bicycle.
> 
> My local Specialized dealer is very supportive though! They gave me their opinion and said whenever I'm ready to make the jump, they will take care of me.


First, thanks for your service. 

That's great that you are able to ride again, ebike or not doesn't matter.

Don't worry about folks like that, there are jerks everywhere.

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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Shark said:


> First, thanks for your service.
> 
> That's great that you are able to ride again, ebike or not doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'm not actually riding again (yet). I'm having a great time riding my motorcycles. I love my KTM450 as well. I figure for off season cross training, I should consider an e-bike just to keep my mind sharp on the trail. I really wish I could shred a MTB again but it beats my body up the faster (and harder) I go.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Battery said:


> Thanks! I'm not actually riding again (yet). I'm having a great time riding my motorcycles. I love my KTM450 as well. I figure for off season cross training, I should consider an e-bike just to keep my mind sharp on the trail. I really wish I could shred a MTB again but it beats my body up the faster (and harder) I go.


Whatever you're riding, I hope you will continue to contribute to this site, you're a good guy!


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