# Daytime Visible Taillight



## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

Hi,

I'm looking for a taillight that is visible in the daytimes as well as the night. Something like the Bontrager Flare R looks good, but I'm wondering what else is out there on the market. There are so many choices for taillights I don't know where to start, currently I don't have any taillight.

Bontrager Flare R Tail Light | Trek Bikes


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

The Hotshot series has been a popular option. I have a Cygolite Hotshot 150 on pre-order. https://www.rei.com/product/110174/cygolite-hotshot-pro-150-rear-bike-light

I also have a Light & Motion Vis 360+ on my helmet. It's a nice product, but I probably wouldn't have bought it at full price.
Vis 360+ - Light & Motion

More options: https://www.bikelightdatabase.com/best/taillights/


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

The pecking order.
Designshine ds-500- 800lm (6led)
Niteflux redzone 8- 500lm (4led)
Orfos red flare- 300lm (9led)
Dinotte quad red- 200lm (4led)
Lupine rotlicht- 150lm (1led)

and all the rest are weaker.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I think what a person considers a "Daytime visible" rear lamp is pretty much subjective and argumentative. When exposed to full day light few lamps are really going to be that much more noticeable when viewed from distance. Of course the exception to this rule are the higher powered rear lamps sold by DiNotte. DiNotte sells three lamps that would ( or might ) classify as Daylight visible in my opinion; the Quad Red (200 lumen ), the 400R ( 400 lumen ) and the Daytime Red tail light ( listed as 400+ lumen ). Other nominal self-contained rear lamps might add some conspicuousness if riding through a section of shaded road using a standard 60-150 lumen self-contained rear lamp but that is just my opinion. Otherwise ( IMO ) a nominal self-contained rear lamp is only really useful at sunset, at night or if the day is heavily overcast.

At one time I might have bought a DiNotte Quad Red but since I really don't know how useful it might be during the day and the fact that I would have to mail it back if dissatisfied, I decided not to go that route. Not to mention that the price of the Quad Red is quite high at $189. 
( _**Now if DiNotte would pay for return postage I would certain give the Quad red a try )_

Personally I would not use a lamp like the 400R or Daytime Red unless I was riding something like a recumbent. Since recumbent bikes are not very visible and sit low to the ground a DiNotte 400R or Daytime Red on one of those would almost be considered a "must have". Otherwise I would be unwilling to carry the extra battery needed to use one of the DiNotte super bright rear lights when riding a normal bicycle during the day.

Currently I have a custom modded ( amber LED ) torch that I have mounted to my seat. I use this at times during the day for added conspicuousness when riding country back roads. The torch uses a custom modded driver that over-drives the amber LED. It uses a very bright triple pulse/flash pattern that I feel is very noticeable during the day. Since is uses a reflector the output is very narrow. This helps make it more visible at distance. Output should be near 200 lumen. This works for me at the moment but I'd like to be able to replace it with a standard rear lamp, providing it is small and self-contained.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

car bone said:


> The pecking order.
> Designshine ds-500- 800lm (6led)
> Niteflux redzone 8- 500lm (4led)
> Orfos red flare- 300lm (9led)
> ...


Ah! Forgot about the DS500. Both the RZ8 and Orfos are more designed for a wider output. With this in mind I don't know if those two are really going to be that much more visible ( at distance ) in full day light. I'm not saying, "they're not", I just don't know so I'm skeptical.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Ah! Forgot about the DS500. Both the RZ8 and Orfos are more designed for a wider output. With this in mind I don't know if those two are really going to be that much more visible ( at distance ) in full day light. I'm not saying, "they're not", I just don't know so I'm skeptical.


Both the orfos and rz has very good spread imo. Just playing around with the modes and levels on the orfos in my hand I started seing werid patterns in my vision. And the rz is about twice as powerful. I dont know how visible they will be in the daylight. but at least they pump out 10-15x more lumens than the cheap ones. If someone is getting close to you they will see you. Now I dont live in the sahara desert and ride around at noon so ymmv.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm running a Cycliq Fly6 on my road bike. Multiple 30 lm LEDs is plenty conspicuous in daytime running and the bonus is it will record in 720p the vehicle that mows me down from behind so hopefully it can be identified and my wife can own them.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Cat-man-do said:


> It uses a very bright triple pulse/flash pattern that I feel is very noticeable during the day.


I think that may be more important than raw output, especially in daylight. I like lights that offer the flexibility to adjust output, strobe, and pulse patterns for conditions.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> Ah! Forgot about the DS500. Both the RZ8 and Orfos are more designed for a wider output. With this in mind I don't know if those two are really going to be that much more visible ( at distance ) in full day light. I'm not saying, "they're not", I just don't know so I'm skeptical.


They are very visible during the day. I have both. I ride a lot with the Orfos - it has the best mount.

J.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

flat said:


> I think that may be more important than raw output, especially in daylight. I like lights that offer the flexibility to adjust output, strobe, and pulse patterns for conditions.


I think the redzone has (edit 3 selectable intensities for solid light, and also like 8 different flash patterns, with 5 intensities. (edit end) You have to go into a menu to select the flash pattern. (can be found on youtube). And then thats your flash pattern. Then you deselct what intensities you dont want anymore to scroll through during normal operation. I only have 4 modes on mine right now.

Its the solid at 25% or so and factory standard flash at 10%, 50% and 100%, i think.

The orfos has steady and 3 flash patterns, the last one is a strobe. And you can toggle between 3 intensities on all patterns.

click jumps between patterns and 1sec hold is change of intensity.

Both lights remember the last setting.


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## gipsyman (Nov 18, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> Ah! Forgot about the DS500. Both the RZ8 and Orfos are more designed for a wider output. With this in mind I don't know if those two are really going to be that much more visible ( at distance ) in full day light. I'm not saying, "they're not", I just don't know so I'm skeptical.


I have ridden over 6000 miles with a DS-500 on level 1-2 pulsing for night use and level 4 strobe for day use. At level 1-2 triple pulse on Michigan back country roads I was having cars slowing down a quarter mile behind me. A few cars a week were turning around because they were afraid to pass me. I assumed they thought I was a cop so they decided not to approach too closely in their alcohol or drug altered states. Even when riding through inner city gang infested areas of New England at night, I never had any trouble with a 1500 lux flashing red tail light. In my experience the DS-500 is very effective at keeping people away who want to avoid the police. All of the output, pulse, and strobe modes can be customized. The lowest constant on level of the light draws just over one half watt which is amazingly efficient. Here are some hard numbers. The lumens readings are manufacturers estimates the rest are mine. These are the following measurements I took at one meter after letting the light warm up for 60 seconds:

LEVEL___LUX___LUMENS___WATTS

1 ______288_____111_______.52
2 ______1450____239_______2.2
3 ______2302____378_______3.6
4 ______3360____521_______5.4
5 ______6140____798_______11.4

I have never seen lux readings for the RZ8 or Orfos. So can anyone who owns them please give us a measurement at one meter distance?


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

External batteries like the DS500 has are a complete show stopper for me.


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## gipsyman (Nov 18, 2014)

JohnJ80 said:


> External batteries like the DS500 has are a complete show stopper for me.


How come you don't like external batteries? I always have at least a 2s2p 18650 on whatever bike I am riding. Usually I ride with a 2s4p bottle battery on board because I do a lot of night riding. Living in the desert, like Mr. Mole, night time is the best time to be out and about. Except for the rattlesnakes and damn scorpions.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I got no lux meter.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

gipsyman said:


> _How come you don't like external batteries? I always have at least a 2s2p 18650 on whatever bike I am riding. Usually I ride with a 2s4p bottle battery on board because I do a lot of night riding. Living in the desert, like Mr. Mole, night time is the best time to be out and about. Except for the rattlesnakes and damn scorpions._


Kind of obvious why, isn't it? It's simply a pain strapping other things on the bike. The real estate on which to do that is pretty precious and limited. I rode for a year with the Dinotte 400R which is a similar form factor to the DS-500. As soon as lights of similar brightness with internal batteries were available, I retired it (gave to my son).

I ride a lot at night too in the fall and winter. I can't imagine why one, (at least certainly me) would ever need that capacity of a battery for a tail light.

J.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Depending on the length of your rides and Gemini Iris could be an option. It's programable up to 180 lumens, is only 42g (1.5oz) and USB rechargeable. At 180 lumens the runtime is 2 hours in pulse mode or 1 hour in flash. Drop to 100 lumens (which is still damm bright) and those times double.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Day use will typically require more power than night, so I can see why an external battery may make sense for a road rider doing a day long trip.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I think 1 hour is just too short. I commute with my lights. And I dont wanna have to recharge them twice a day  
I think once a week is often enough.

The orfos does 5 hours at 300lm strobing. and 10 hours at 50%
the redzone does 4h at 500lm strobing and 16h at 125lm. 

Because both of those has real 18650s inside.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

car bone said:


> I think 1 hour is just too short. I commute with my lights. And I dont wanna have to recharge them twice a day
> I think once a week is often enough.
> 
> The orfos does 5 hours at 300lm strobing. and 10 hours at 50%
> ...


The 18650 factor is a major selling point for a light, IMO.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I don't want to carry extra batteries along for a rear light as well but I would ( if I had to ) depending on where I'm riding and the time of day. If you want the "Daytime power" of a daytime visible rear lamp you are going to have to use a battery pack because the power requirements of the brighter lamp will just require it. 

Most of the time though I really feel I don't need a rear lamp going in the day. On the rare occasion I might need one I would certainly want something that was not only very bright but also had a narrow beam pattern for maximum daytime visibility. Keep in mind that getting seen at distance on a bike during the day is not only determined by how conspicuous your jersey/jacket/or lamp is but also by line of sight. The straighter the road, the better chance you have of being seen ( sooner ).

Give me a rear lamp with more than 500 red lumens, some useful flash patterns....the ability to adjust the output on all modes ( flash or steady ), then give me a wireless remote and a two cell battery so I can turn it on/off ( on the fly ) when needed. Lastly let it allow the user to use the optics they want, spot or flood. A daytime rear lamp with those features I would be willing to use.


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## gipsyman (Nov 18, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> I don't want to carry extra batteries along for a rear light as well but I would ( if I had to ) depending on where I'm riding and the time of day. If you want the "Daytime power" of a daytime visible rear lamp you are going to have to use a battery pack because the power requirements of the brighter lamp will just require it.
> 
> Most of the time though I really feel I don't need a rear lamp going in the day. On the rare occasion I might need one I would certainly want something that was not only very bright but also had a narrow beam pattern for maximum daytime visibility. Keep in mind that getting seen at distance on a bike during the day is not only determined by how conspicuous your jersey/jacket/or lamp is but also by line of sight. The straighter the road, the better chance you have of being seen ( sooner ).
> 
> Give me a rear lamp with more than 500 red lumens, some useful flash patterns....the ability to adjust the output on all modes ( flash or steady ), then give me a wireless remote and a two cell battery so I can turn it on/off ( on the fly ) when needed. Lastly let it allow the user to use the optics they want, spot or flood. A daytime rear lamp with those features I would be willing to use.


The big battery isn't just for the tail light. It powers my front light and also gives me external power to my GPS.

My daily ride is on a rural road that leads to the state prison. You can imagine what kind of drivers are visiting their friends in lock-down out there. I have to run a very bright tail light during the day to get their attention(which draws considerable power). I also use a strobe front light so the drivers coming at me don't pass into my lane at 70-80 mph. The speed limit is 50 mph but the average speed people are going is 55-60 mph. It is rare now using a high power day light setup that I am in danger from the prison traffic.

At night I was glad I had the extra battery power when I cracked the rear wheel drop-out on my Specialized Allez last year. It was a 12 mile walk home on unlit rural roads with 50 mph plus traffic.

The DS-500 checks all of your boxes except the wireless remote control. You could use whatever size battery you wanted though depending on ride length and power output needed.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I'd like to see a selfcontained light maybe the size of a dual 18650 fenix (but other led orientation). And it should take dual 18650, use the ds500 led boards and drivers. 2 removable 18650 and also built in usb charging capacity, with screw on lid for the usb charge port, that has a small wire attached so it can never get lost. Also all metal construction. all metal mount or many drilled and tapped (m5/m6) holes so you can make your own. 

The settings should work like this: 
squarewave/triangle/saw/ramp/sine. 
Frequency
dc offset for tri/saw/ramp/sine
pulse width for square
amplitude
delay time between cycles (could be in % derived from chosen frequency)
number of cycles before delay

controls:
1 scroll wheel/enco der with detents with push down click and 1 clicky push button, 1 or several rgb leds as indicators in the menus.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> I don't want to carry extra batteries along for a rear light as well but I would ( if I had to ) depending on where I'm riding and the time of day. If you want the "Daytime power" of a daytime visible rear lamp you are going to have to use a battery pack because the power requirements of the brighter lamp will just require it.


--

I don't think that daytime requires an external pack. I have had great success with the Orfos and the RZ8 during daytime. Battery life is longer than I want to ride.

FWIW, I was really impressed with the visibility of the Micro Hotshot from Cygolite. I watched a cyclist go down the road visible until they were just a small dot in the distance and I could still *clearly* see the red flashing light.

I think we're at the point where we have enough lumens out the light and enough lumens focused on the right places with current lights. I see no net benefit to lights with external batteries and a really big downside.

I'm sensitive to tail light performance, since I too ride on rural high speed roads and visibility is key. I see better driver behavior with taillights certainly at night but also improved during the day.

J.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Orfos and rz8 are the kings of selfcontained rears at least. ok maybe the orfos is the queen. but it has so many good features built in so i forgive it for not having 500lm.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

its a lot better to be seen than dead imo.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

car bone said:


> its a lot better to be seen than dead imo.


I don't think you'll get an argument from anyone here on that issue.

@JohnJ; I saw a comparison of some of the current rear lights over on Bike forums. The Hotshot Micro looks to have a very tight beam pattern so no surprise to me that you can still see it at distance in full daylight. Sadly the guy doing the comparisons only had a hand full of lights to work with but both the Micro and the Hotshot 80 did very well. Would be nice to see some comparisons with some of the brighter lights like the RZ's, Orfros, DiNotte Quad Red...

Right now I am of the same opinion as John. The brighter lamps with external batteries are great but for riding at dusk or night I feel the current crop of self contained rear lamps provide more than enough output to be seen at distance. I'm all for "Brighter", but I want a small self-contained form factor and at less than $100. Sadly though, if you get a lamp with over 200 lumen output, if it's self contained the run time on the highest output is going to be very short. There in lies the _Achilles heel_ of the self-contained lamps. In the future I'd like to see the higher powered self-contained lamps offer the option to use an external battery when needed for those super long night rides ( or day rides ).

Right now I'm going to stay focused on rear lamps with optics. That's why I almost bought a Quad Red and why I did pre-order a Cygolite 150. Hopefully I'll have the 150 in a couple weeks or so. Since the Cygolite Hotshot series has proven to be very visible and has a decent UI, I was more than willing to roll the dice on the 150. Like I mentioned before though I likely won't be able to run it at the highest output because at 150 lumen it will likely only run about 2hrs. I'll have to wait to see how that all works out. If it disappoints...meh...I can return it to REI.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I have the micro cygo. It will hurt your eyes. I used it in s Georgia road riding in daylight and had 0 issues. On a Sunday. Rush on Monday morning would bring a different result. I really like the look of the 150 on price alone, $50 bones? Damn.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Dirt Road said:


> I have the micro cygo. It will hurt your eyes. I used it in s Georgia road riding in daylight and had 0 issues. On a Sunday. Rush on Monday morning would bring a different result. I really like the look of the 150 on price alone, $50 bones? Damn.


Join the club and pre-order. I'm betting that the lens will make that 150 lumens plenty bright. Free shipping if you add $0.05 more, which explains why I bought some nice canoe paddles.


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## gipsyman (Nov 18, 2014)

car bone said:


> I got no lux meter.


If you have a smartphone, there are a number of free apps you can download to measure lux. They are only as accurate as your cell phone sensor but will give you a good general reading. Say you have a Gloworm bike light, then look for reviews where someone has measured the lux of that light and compare your apps reading to see how accurate it is. I have a calibrated Extech light meter that I used when I had a Home Theater business so I was always measuring and calibrating gray scale for video projectors. I compared the readings on a Xeno E03 flashlight from app "Light Meter" by Borce Trajkovski to the Extech and it was within 20%. The kelvin temperature reading of the neutral white led was within a few hundred kelvin of manufacturers specs also.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I ride a Bontraged Flare R, which is on the back of my helmet when I'm on the road.
The Cygolit 80 is similar. Both self contained and pretty darn visible in daylight. For the size and $ they're decent.


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## Corbinworks (Aug 15, 2011)

car bone said:


> The pecking order.
> Designshine ds-500- 800lm (6led)


This ones amazing..But at $200+ for the light with no battery


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Corbinworks said:


> This ones amazing..But at $200+ for the light with no battery


A DIY red lens/diffuser on a rear firing, WA optic, Wiz20 would be pretty amazing, too.

$100, batteries included.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

flat said:


> A DIY red lens/diffuser on a rear firing, WA optic, Wiz20 would be pretty amazing, too.
> 
> $100, batteries included.


Maybe this - Red Wide Angle Lens
Paired with an MJ-808-L2 for $69.95 with a 4 cell battery or $39.95 for just the light.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Action LED Lights said:


> Maybe this - Red Wide Angle Lens
> Paired with an MJ-808-L2 for $69.95 with a 4 cell battery or $39.95 for just the light.


Pretty much. :thumbsup:


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Niterider just came out with the Solas 150. Same size, weight and cost as the Cygolite 80 or Bontrager Flare R, so an amazing deal! Huge bang for the buck.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Niterider just came out with the Solas 150. Same size, weight and cost as the Cygolite 80 or Bontrager Flare R, so an amazing deal! Huge bang for the buck.


I believe I saw one at REI, but I didn't have time to play with it. Any idea how it and the Hotshot compare on mounts and other features?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

flat said:


> I believe I saw one at REI, but I didn't have time to play with it. Any idea how it and the Hotshot compare on mounts and other features?


Nope, only saw it online. It's 4x as powerful as the original Cygolite Hotshot.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Niterider just came out with the Solas 150. Same size, weight and cost as the Cygolite 80 or Bontrager Flare R, so an amazing deal! Huge bang for the buck.


Should be interesting to see how the Solas 150 compares to the Cygolite Hotshot 150 ( when it arrives ). A lot will depend on what optics are being used ( by both ). Likely both are using similar optics but the Solas might be wider. The HS150 is likely using the same optic as the 80 version. I never did get a chance to see the 80 in person but the 80 got very good reviews. That is why I'm rolling the dice on the HS 150. Personally I hoping for an optic similar to what the Serfas TL60 is using. Not too wide and not too narrow.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

I see the Hotshot Pro 150 is now on the Cygolite site:
Hotshot Pro 150 USB - Cygolite

NiteRider Solas 150, for comparison:
https://www.niterider.com/product/solas-150/

This is interesting: "Cygolite Hotshot Pro 150 Rear Bike Light is no longer available."
https://www.rei.com/product/110174/cygolite-hotshot-pro-150-rear-bike-light

My order history still shows a Hotshot 150 on Backorder/Preorder, though.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

why the f are you getting exited about this pos light? I mean the 150lm Rotlicht has been out for more than a year. alu backplate too that you can drill and tap.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

car bone said:


> why the f are you getting exited about this pos light? I mean the 150lm Rotlicht has been out for more than a year. alu backplate too that you can drill and tap.


I'm not particularly "exited" about the light, but I thought others might be interested in new tail light options in a thread entitled, "Daytime Visible Taillight". If I were to give an "f" about it, I'd say that the current price difference between the two is worth considering.

Cygolite Hotshot Pro 150 Rear Bike Light - *$37.39*

Lupine Rotlicht *- $125*


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

flat said:


> I'm not particularly "exited" about the light, but I thought others might be interested in new tail light options in a thread entitled, "Daytime Visible Taillight". If I were to give an "f" about it, I'd say that the current price difference between the two is worth considering.
> 
> Cygolite Hotshot Pro 150 Rear Bike Light - *$37.39*
> 
> Lupine Rotlicht *- $125*


Exactly right. The Rotlicht is rapidly being overtaken by competition in terms of brightness at much lower prices.

J.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Just put the cygo 150 in my cart, a few odds and ends and I'm at $55.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Dirt Road said:


> Just put the cygo 150 in my cart, a few odds and ends and I'm at $55.


I received an email from REI a couple days ago informing me the Cygolite 150 is out of stock and is back-ordered. I thought this an odd email since my order was a "pre-order". It then went on to say that if I want to keep my order current I have to contact them by 9/15/16. Could be this is just an automated email sent out to all the people who ordered the 150. I was expecting to get my order by the 15th but now I don't know what to think.

Interesting that the link you provided shows the 150 being discounted to $37.39 That's much cheaper than the original Pre-order price!


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

car bone said:


> Orfos and rz8 are the kings of selfcontained rears at least. ok maybe the orfos is the queen. but it has so many good features built in so i forgive it for not having 500lm.


Passenger vehicle brake lamps average 300 lumens, and the Orfos Red Flare does this in a much tighter package, more like the newer automotive LED lamps that can be overwhelming at times. If a following driver cannot see the Flare at full output, they are not going to see anything (sun in the eyes scenario). Above this level of output, there's not a significant advantage.

I went with the Flare for the 180º visibility. It's got really good spread. I wish it was as bright in all directions like they show on their site (it's not), but it exceeds everything I've used and seen for providing strong light emitted to the side. I can see the red light on the ground beside me even with my helmet lamp on (glowworm at 200lm setting) . If I turn the helmet light off, I can see red on the ground forward of the light about 10º as well. Smart little light.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Cat-man-do said:


> I received an email from REI a couple days ago informing me the Cygolite 150 is out of stock and is back-ordered. I thought this an odd email since my order was a "pre-order". It then went on to say that if I want to keep my order current I have to contact them by 9/15/16. Could be this is just an automated email sent out to all the people who ordered the 150. I was expecting to get my order by the 15th but now I don't know what to think.
> 
> Interesting that the link you provided shows the 150 being discounted to $37.39 That's much cheaper than the original Pre-order price!


I haven't received an email about my pre-order, but I'm going to contact REI to see if they'll reduce the price on my current order. If not, I'll cancel the first pre-order, and make a second pre-order + a pair of socks or something.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

flat said:


> I'm not particularly "exited" about the light, but I thought others might be interested in new tail light options in a thread entitled, "Daytime Visible Taillight". If I were to give an "f" about it, I'd say that the current price difference between the two is worth considering.
> 
> Cygolite Hotshot Pro 150 Rear Bike Light - *$37.39*
> 
> Lupine Rotlicht *- $125*


You got a point. but 150lm is not much by todatys standards. I say the orfos and redzones is the new standard, and the ds500 is the luxury option.

I stay far away from these all cheap plastic crapola lights. sure the RZ and the orfos are all plastic too but they are actually good.

I bought a light and motion VIS micro and the plastic back was cracked from the factory where the mount is!! wtf. and it was brittle crap plastic too i can add. cheap ass disposable crap imo.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Flamingtaco said:


> Passenger vehicle brake lamps average 300 lumens, and the Orfos Red Flare does this in a much tighter package, more like the newer automotive LED lamps that can be overwhelming at times. If a following driver cannot see the Flare at full output, they are not going to see anything (sun in the eyes scenario). Above this level of output, there's not a significant advantage.
> 
> I went with the Flare for the 180º visibility. It's got really good spread. I wish it was as bright in all directions like they show on their site (it's not), but it exceeds everything I've used and seen for providing strong light emitted to the side. I can see the red light on the ground beside me even with my helmet lamp on (glowworm at 200lm setting) . If I turn the helmet light off, I can see red on the ground forward of the light about 10º as well. Smart little light.


i just made my orfos "unstealable" but it involved an arc welder, stainless steel sheet and a ziptie. I haz picz!

I'm thinking you could rough up the surface on the orfos with a maybe p600-p1000 paper and it will probably glow like mudda from from all directions.

I have noticed when running the orfos on med and hi on the strobe mode: on med it goes completely off and on, but on max its like in drops down to 50% and then max. its like a square wave that has DC bias.

Or maybe the silicon gets "saturated" somehow so it only looks like this. I dont know. But I think running the orfos on med strobe is good enough for me. and its 10h battery on that setting!


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I just pulled the trigger on the cygolite 150. I see some road riding in my future. I don't understand azz hats that can't get over a lil in their freaky lil cars. I get way the heck over and I'm in a 72ft long 18whlr. No consideration pos drivers out here blind em.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Dirt Road said:


> I just pulled the trigger on the cygolite 150. I see some road riding in my future. I don't understand azz hats that can't get over a lil in their freaky lil cars. I get way the heck over and I'm in a 72ft long 18whlr. No consideration pos drivers out here blind em.


Welcome to the Cheap Plastic Crapola Club! :thumbsup:


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Delete


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

I've used the Dinotte 400, 400R, 300R, Quad Red and RZ 8 for daylight road rides. Still have the last two, although the RZ 8 is mainly back up or borrow light these days. I definitely need up to 7-8hr capacity for such rides. 

A favorite ride includes a mountain pass which carries a 35mph speed limit for the first half of the climb, then 45mph to the top and over. There is only a shoulder for the second half of the ascent, so for the rest we are taking a lane. These lights have shown me their effectiveness under those conditions.



P.S. Going back to the video on the OP, and its advocacy of 400m visibility, consider that the RZ 8 (my second) is a clever although very rudimentary design. What you have are LED emitters covered by a thick opaque rubber cap which tends to suck light intensity. That opaqueness by the way increases greatly over time. Although the LED face the rear and are exposed to the side, what you have basically are non-directional beams, with not much throw.

I can't say how far the Quad Red throws, but I see a 400R on the road every now and then, and it throws at distances that make me smile everytime I see it.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

pigmode said:


> I've used the Dinotte 400, 400R, 300R, Quad Red and RZ 8 for daylight road rides. Still have the last two, although the RZ 8 is mainly back up or borrow light these days. I definitely need up to 7-8hr capacity for such rides....
> 
> ....I can't say how far the Quad Red throws, but I see a 400R on the road every now and then, and it throws at distances that make me smile everytime I see it.


Well since you own the Quad Red and are calling the RZ8 your back-up I'm going to assume you feel the Quad Red is the more visible lamp when being viewed directly behind from a distance ( during the day ). Since you are familiar with both Quad Red and 400R, which of those would you say is the more visible at distance during the day?


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Niterider just came out with the Solas 150. Same size, weight and cost as the Cygolite 80 or Bontrager Flare R, so an amazing deal! Huge bang for the buck.


What are your thoughts on the Niterider Solas 100? I saw one the other day at REI for $40, is that a good deal compared to the other contenders?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

nbritton said:


> What are your thoughts on the Niterider Solas 100? I saw one the other day at REI for $40, is that a good deal compared to the other contenders?


Sorry, I haven't seen one in person. The older Niterider Solas 30 was a great light, and the 100 should be a lot better.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Update on Cygolite Hotshot 150*

I just contacted REI about my order. My main question was about the discounted price that was offered during their Labor Day sale. ( which was much cheaper than my pre-order price ).. Lucky me, I got them to give me the discounted price. I guess it pays to complain if you pre-order and don't get the best price. ETA ( for my order ) is suppose to be Sept 13th. We'll see how that goes.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

My cygolite 150 shipped today. REI is on point, just ordered Saturday.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Dirt Road said:


> My cygolite 150 shipped today. REI is on point, just ordered Saturday.


My back ordered one shipped today, too.


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## ImaBum (Jun 1, 2014)

You want the brightest light possible in red?

Strobes N More Lion Series Linear Dual Color LED

This is a primary LED light. We run a lot of these on our vehicles. They are stupid bright. You want to be seen? Run a light like this.

My bike has brakes with electric sensing - meaning when I use my brakes it sends an electric signal. The nice thing about these light heads is they have a brake over-ride feature. So if you can wire it up - you can having strobing feature going on an when you activate the "brake" wire with a signal - it will make the light head steady burn.

I'm currently working on using this type of light head mounted to my bike rack for my brake light. I'm also working on an all clear light head for the front to work as a warning lamp (whatever flash pattern) and "brake override" feature for stead burn for an awesome flood lamp up front for those night rides.

Hope this helps. This will be your best option, by far.

I'll post up a video review this weekend. I have 8 of these an I am due for a 100 mile review on my bike this weekend and I can post up a link later if anyone actually really cares.

Or you can just subscribe to my channel. Heres a linky dinky to one of my videos to see my page.

Thanks,


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Dirt Road said:


> My cygolite 150 shipped today. REI is on point, just ordered Saturday.


This has me confused. If you just ordered Saturday I don't understand how yours is getting shipped while the people who pre-ordered weeks ago are just starting to see theirs getting shipped. I thought if you were to pre-order you got yours first else what is the point of pre-ordering? Might have to see how REI is handling this issue. Perhaps tomorrow I will get an email telling me mine is shipping.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Cat-man-do said:


> This has me confused. If you just ordered Saturday I don't understand how yours is getting shipped while the people who pre-ordered weeks ago are just starting to see theirs getting shipped. I thought if you were to pre-order you got yours first else what is the point of pre-ordering? Might have to see how REI is handling this issue. Perhaps tomorrow I will get an email telling me mine is shipping.


I didn't get an email about mine shipping, but it showed up when I checked the order status through my REI account. Mine was part of a larger order, so that may have confused the REI system about sending an additional email notification.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Got the email today, mines been shipped. UPS ground. Damn, must be coming from the west coast. When I get the time I'm still going to razz them about how they handled the pre-orders.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Well I got my cygolite 150 delivered today. I'm well away from the homestead, looking forward to reviews!


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

ImaBum said:


> You want the brightest light possible in red?


Keep in mind that a strobe in red and/or blue, sequencing at that level of output, can get you in trouble for impersonating if not mounted to a clearly marked public works vehicle. Regular business are permitted to use yellow or green. Slight variances on that by state.

Any idea what the total current draw is with those? That would be my main concern, as well as the pricetag, but for a sealed, ready to wire light, cheaper than the better bike specific lights, that's a decent option.

I installed yellow and red Optronics micro-flex thin line clearance LED's on my trailer, they are suitable for night use on a bike. Although low power (1.1W), they appear brighter than higher power bike lights, probably due to the larger light emitting area. Throw is probably not comparable to a focused lens bike light, but they stand out in my peripheral vision (@60º) from 1000ft when I'm rolling up to the house. For the price ($10), two set at 60-90º, or three set at 90º would make a decent rear setup on the cheap. They also have 3LED versions that consume just over half the power of the 4LED units.

I may still install a red micro-flex on each side to assist the Orfos, and maybe two yellow in the front, just for the halibut.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

nbritton said:


> What are your thoughts on the Niterider Solas 100? I saw one the other day at REI for $40, is that a good deal compared to the other contenders?


I've got the Solas 30 and it has been a great light, served as my main tail for a few years, now on my helmet as an addition to an Orfos. As a secondary light used in flash mode, the second setting is an attention getter. It steadily increases to full power then back down over maybe a four second interval followed by two full power, short interval flashes, repeat.

As a main light (full power, steady), it has decent output and enough side spill to be seen from the side for night rides. It is easily spotted from the rear during daytime except during full sun or sun in the eyes situations. I expect the 100 improves upon that.

I'd suggest laying down the extra Hamilton for the 150...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Cygolite Hotshot 150; Initial impressions*



Dirt Road said:


> Well I got my cygolite 150 delivered today. I'm well away from the homestead, looking forward to reviews!


Got mine today too. I'll be brief; On the modes that utilize the highest outputs the bugger is bright. The optic is interesting. Like the original Hotshot the beam pattern is indeed a spot...however...it is not a circle spot. It is a narrow wider spot. Think tight spot that is being stretched to both sides. Still not stretched so much that it loses too much intensity. The initial feeling is that I'm going to like it but I need to do more observations outside before I decide on whether to keep it.

Not sure I like the seat post mount. Pretty much like the original Hotshots I guess. I just haven't used a Hotshot in so long I forgot how crappy the mounts were. The only way to install or adjust it is with a phillips screw driver. That kind of sucks. I guess that means I won't be using it with the mountain bike. Hard plastic mount, if it were to hit something hard enough it would likely break. Should work fine on the road set-up though ( which is what I bought it for ). I am a little worried about the lamp's quick-release. Seems to hold tight but the plastic piece that releases the lamp is quite long. Press on that and the lamp releases very easily. ( *side note; took over two hours to charge )

The upside is I like the UI. Very much like the other Hotshots. Right now I'm kinda digging on the steady with pulse mode. This mode looks like the steady is about half power with the periodic pulse ( which you can adjust for timing ) being much brighter. Of course there are other good modes as well. I also like the "Fade Hi to low" mode. This mode you can adjust the timing of the fade ( in-out ). The Hi looks to be full output on the fade when it reaches it's peak. Of course there is the standard steady mode that is fully adjustable. There is also a standard blink mode that you can adjust the timing as well. I think this one is using the highest output too.

Sadly, REI billed me for the full price.  ( maybe ) The bill included in the package is for the full price but I have a feeling the lamp was already shipped before I spoke with the sales team that promised me the lower price. I might have to call them back to see how they are going to handle the billing. I wasn't expecting to get the lamp till next week.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Seems like a refund of the difference is the right thing to do. My 1st REI order, for me, went very smooth. Good review, I had doubts about the mounting system, but mine will only see road, gravel. local trails=no tail lite. Don't let them pull the free shipping crap on ya either.


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## Rockhucker (Aug 1, 2010)

Another great option for a daylight visible tailight is the Niterider Sentinel 150, I don't use the lasers but it's $55 and lasts a solid 4ish hours on a charge(I charge it once a week). In the last 15 days of commuting I've noticed that's it's grabbed drivers attention a lot better than my cherry bomb 35. It's nice to have some less expensive options for really bright tail lights.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ImaBum said:


> You want the brightest light possible in red?
> 
> Strobes N More Lion Series Linear Dual Color LED....


Certainly an option for someone interested in a little DIY. I can see the possibility of running one of these under the seat for an ultimate Daytime warning lamp. ( I'm thinking the amber interwoven with white ).

The thing is you have to want something like that real bad it you go that route because it's going to need a 4 or 6 cell ( 12volt or > ) compatible battery, a controlling switch and ( unless you rig a quick release mount ) it's going to have to stay on the bike whether you are using it or not. You might save some bucks with a set-up like this but in the long run not sure it would be worth messing with when the current crop of dedicated bike systems are pretty decent. I do like that the Lion series is capable of emitting duel color. Something like that would ( or should ) be super visible during the day ( once again, as long as you have direct line of sight ). _If a bike light manufacturer produced a dedicated bike lamp geared for daytime using duel color I might be interested in one of those.
_
While all of this is quite interesting if you really want to the ultimate Daytime rear bike light all you have to do is buy a DesignShine DS500. The reviews on the DS500 are great and while it might cost some bucks the unit itself and the UI is designed for the bicyclist.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Cygolite Hotshot 150; Initial impressions continued...*

I just did some quick comparisons with a lux meter ( inside home @ a little over 1M )

Steady and Fade modes are the highest output. Still a lot to say about the mode I plan to use at night which is the "steady with adjustable pulse". The steady on that mode is about 250 lux but when the pulses begin to flash output spikes to near or over 1000 lux. Normal Steady mode high is about 800 lux.

I then compared my Performance Axiom Pulse 60. The highest steady mode for the Axiom was around 295 lux and until now I considered that to be a very, very bright output. Flash mode on the Axiom was about 225 lux.

Also worth mentioning is that most of Hotshot 150's lamp body is translucent. This allows for decent viewing from the sides if you use a mode with some steady output. Cygolite claims the internal casing is infused with what they call, "Body Glow™Technology". They claim: quote, "..casing disperses a radiant glow to keep nearby motorist alert"...unquote. Well I don't know nothing about any special "radiant glow" but it's visible from the sides. I have a feeling though that many people will still think the beam pattern too narrow. So far I'm liking it as it is but I still need to do outside testing.


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## Corbinworks (Aug 15, 2011)

I just finished watching videos of all the lights you guys post.. and hands down the Designshine ds-500 is unreal.. When they show the lights projecting on the buildings... Im sold.. Question is it was listed as 800lm on the video its listed as 600lm?


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Cat-man-do said:


> I just did some quick comparisons with a lux meter ( inside home @ a little over 1M )
> 
> Steady and Fade modes are the highest output. Still a lot to say about the mode I plan to use at night which is the "steady with adjustable pulse". The steady on that mode is about 250 lux but when the pulses begin to flash output spikes to near or over 1000 lux. Normal Steady mode high is about 800 lux.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the lux check. Body Glow™Technology has been in use at gentlemen's clubs for several years. It's good to see this tech finally making it to the street. 

It sounds like pairing a Hotshot 150 with a high side visibility, steady-on light would be a good setup.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

flat said:


> Welcome to the Cheap Plastic Crapola Club! :thumbsup:


Lol, good one. I am a member of that club too. So far it has worked out.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*First ride with the Cygolite HS 150*

Had to drop my car tonight to a body shop for some needed repairs and rode my bike home ( 12 mile ride ). Rode along a usually dangerous 4 lane Highway but since it was after 10:00pm not much traffic. After that it was typical two lane stuff but although I didn't see much traffic the few cars I did see seemed to do everything possible to not even come close to me. Of course it helps that I have 4 rear LED lamps, two on the chain stays, one on the seat post ( HS 150 ) and one on back of the helmet ( Gemini IRIS ). Yeah, I'm kind'a hard not to see at night. Not to mention I use Rimfire wheel lights, GWorm X2 on the bars with a Axiom flasher on the fork on flicker mode. Yeah, almost forgot, helmet torch or lamp. Only use the helmet light though when at break neck speed on really dark roads. Helps me spot deer on the sides of the road BEFORE they decide to to jump in front of me.


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## Brooks04 (Jun 1, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> ...Of course it helps that I have 4 rear LED lamps, two on the chain stays, one on the seat post ( HS 150 ) and one on back of the helmet ( Gemini IRIS ).


Cat - Do you have a photo of the Gemini IRIS mounted to the back of your helmet? Also, do you know of any other lights that work well mounted to the rear of the helmet? Thanks!


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I think the Exposure TraceR looks quite good. Given my riding and level of traffic, I probably would not need anything insane but in heavy traffic, brighter is better...as long as you are not riding in a group.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

Brooks04 said:


> Cat - Do you have a photo of the Gemini IRIS mounted to the back of your helmet? Also, do you know of any other lights that work well mounted to the rear of the helmet? Thanks!


The Gemini IRIS is a nice looking light, but I'm not sure about off-axis visibility. I'd pair it with something using a wider beam or better side visibility.
Review: Gemini Iris Rear Light | road.cc

A Hotshot 150 could easily be attached to a helmet with some HD Velcro, or possibly with the clip if it engaged the shell properly. Mine arrived today. Bright little sucker from across the house, but I haven't taken a look on the road yet. The old Hotshot rack mount fits the new light, btw.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Flyer said:


> I think the Exposure TraceR looks quite good. Given my riding and level of traffic, I probably would not need anything insane but in heavy traffic, brighter is better...as long as you are not riding in a group.


During daylight, it's hard to have anything too bright. Definitely a case of "go big or go home."


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

flat said:


> The Gemini IRIS is a nice looking light, but I'm not sure about off-axis visibility. I'd pair it with something using a wider beam or better side visibility.
> Review: Gemini Iris Rear Light | road.cc
> 
> A Hotshot 150 could easily be attached to a helmet with some HD Velcro, or possibly with the clip if it engaged the shell properly. Mine arrived today. Bright little sucker from across the house, but I haven't taken a look on the road yet. The old Hotshot rack mount fits the new light, btw.


Actually the IRIS is_ almost_ perfect for the back of a helmet. Off axis visibility is very good as the beam pattern is very wide and completely circular. In comparison it is twice as wide as my Axiom Pulse 60...which...is a very good medium wide lamp that I used on the seat post until I got the Hotshot 150. When I first received the IRIS I experimented with off axis viewing by mounting it to my helmet and then viewing it from my hall mirror as I moved the helmet as one might move their head. I was amazed at how well I could still see a bright output, even when pointed up/down, side-to-side at more than a 45° angle. When I stand beside the IRIS ( as one might when passing in a car ) the light is still fairly bright even when I'm almost parallel.

While the IRIS is wide it does not have a translucent body. Would of been nice if the Gemini people had given it at least a translucent ring around the optic. That would of made it visible beyond 180°. Still, for a relatively small lamp, it packs some punch and is quite visible when being viewed from either behind or almost to parallel. I wouldn't use it for the seat post though but only because I prefer a lamp with more throw for the seat post.

( on a side note the IRIS seat post mount sucks ( simple O-ring mount makes light point down [ is not angled ] )...however, I found that the IRIS actually works very well with the Hotshot 150's seat post mount. Doesn't lock in but it is still a tight fit and points it straight back. )

Summing up the Gemini IRIS makes a very nice rear light for the helmet. If I were looking for something brighter with a WIDER beam pattern I'd likely suggest using one of the RedZone lights. The RZ's though are almost completely omnidirectional so if you wanted maximum viewable red light beyond 180° one of the Redzones ( or an Orfos flare ) would make a good choice. Personally though I don't feel the need for a 180° beam pattern coming off the helmet. I'm satisfied that the IRIS is good enough to be seen off the helmet as long as my head is moving as it normally does. All this said, I don't own a RZ or Orfos. If I did I'd likely use it.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

:thumbsup:


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Well since you own the Quad Red and are calling the RZ8 your back-up I'm going to assume you feel the Quad Red is the more visible lamp when being viewed directly behind from a distance ( during the day ). Since you are familiar with both Quad Red and 400R, which of those would you say is the more visible at distance during the day?


I haven't compared any of these lights in a manner to where I can answer with confidence. What I can say is I feel safer on the road with Dinotte's "pulse" mode, over Nitflux' traditional strobe. The QR mainly brings a bit more power over the 300R, lighter weight, as well as more side visibility--but for the latter not equal to the RZ-8 at night.

The older style RZ-8 w/carbon tube (just noticed they have an all plastic version now, which may outdate my comments), seemed to put out much less intensity OTF than advertised. Its still an effective rear. I charged it up and used it for a short commute Tue, and will use it today as well.

I may try to bring both to a day group ride, so I have the chance to ride behind both.

NITEFLUX RED ZONE 8 500 LUMEN REAR BIKE LIGHT Made In Australia NEW MO ? Full Beam Extreme Cycling Lights


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## DTownDave22 (Oct 4, 2013)

Corbinworks said:


> I just finished watching videos of all the lights you guys post.. and hands down the Designshine ds-500 is unreal.. When they show the lights projecting on the buildings... Im sold.. Question is it was listed as 800lm on the video its listed as 600lm?


I'm often curious if there is anything new about these lights on the internets. I found an unused DS-500 build 4 (wife of seller was injured an no longer wanted to ride) by searching via Google on eBay via a listing from a forum (other than this) of the seller. Was as described in great condition for the record.

Anyways, I noticed results came up linked to here and no one responded to your response and if you head on over to www.designshinelighting.com, you will find it listed with the lumens, which does go up to 800 lumens DS-500 Taillight w/Mount

I do not have any measuring tool of lumens, but I am very doubtful that Stephen of DesignShine would lie about this and while I've not put in a lot of time observing what this light looks like from about 50-100 yards away on the highest lumen level in flash, I feel that level 3 is still plenty bright for me as when I observed level 5 (800 lumens) on one of the flash modes, it seemed like it was more than I personally would want to have on my bike for where I ride though I may experiment. So, in other words, I would bet there's no real false advertising. It's called a DS-500 (though it goes much brighter--technically high is listed as 798 but that diff is insignif) and the medium setting (level 3 in flashing) is still quite plenty noticeable, especially with its dual beams (one is spot and the other flood).


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

I had a customer who just called with a good idea. A red filter for the X1 to replace the clear lens cover. I'm looking in to a red and amber one. I'm at Interbike right now and was at the Serfas booth. Their Spectra 150 looks pretty nice. 150 lumen daytime flash, USB recharge and 2.5 hour runtime at 150. Anyone out there had experience with Serfas lights. I may look into adding some of there lights to our line.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Action LED Lights said:


> I had a customer who just called with a good idea. A red filter for the X1 to replace the clear lens cover. I'm looking in to a red and amber one. I'm at Interbike right now and was at the Serfas booth. Their Spectra 150 looks pretty nice. 150 lumen daytime flash, USB recharge and 2.5 hour runtime at 150. Anyone out there had experience with Serfas lights. I may look into adding some of there lights to our line.


I've been using a TL60 for a couple of yrs. now. Excellent service so far. I see a lot of Serfas headlights here in Arizona. They are larger and heavier than the typical Gloworm/Gemini/Ituo lights we see on this forum but deal with the high temps. well because of the large heat-sink mass. Manufactured by a Chinese Co. called MoonSport I believe.
Mole


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## gipsyman (Nov 18, 2014)

Corbinworks said:


> I just finished watching videos of all the lights you guys post.. and hands down the Designshine ds-500 is unreal.. When they show the lights projecting on the buildings... Im sold.. Question is it was listed as 800lm on the video its listed as 600lm?


I remembered that someone had tested a DS-500 version #3 in an integrating sphere. It was measured by Lupine of Germany in a Ulbricht sphere at 830 lumens.

The designer of the DS-500 (Stephen Pethel) conservatively rated his first versions at about 600 lumens since he didn't have the equipment to measure it himself. That is why there are the 600 or 800 lumens ratings.

But don't forget, since our eyes respond to light intensity in a logarithmic manner, an 800 lumen light doesn't look twice as bright as a 400 lumen one. Unless you use a narrow spot lens. Then the light appears very bright. Light intensity is very dependent on angle of distribution, so a light with no focusing lenses doesn't have as intense of a beam.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

I'd decided to budget in going with the Dinotte Quad Red, but still regret not going for the Designshine for a daytime light.

P.S. It might seem like I was poo-pooing the RZ8 light earlier (above), but only because mine hasn't been used much lately and when I do, rarely actually look at the light beam itself.

I can say today I'm still as impressed with its output and surround-like beam, as I was when I received my first production unit a few years ago.

RZ-8 w/Dinotte 300R


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Action LED Lights said:


> I had a customer who just called with a good idea. A red filter for the X1 to replace the clear lens cover. I'm looking in to a red and amber one. I'm at Interbike right now and was at the Serfas booth. Their Spectra 150 looks pretty nice. 150 lumen daytime flash, USB recharge and 2.5 hour runtime at 150. Anyone out there had experience with Serfas lights. I may look into adding some of there lights to our line.


There seem to be a whole crop of 150 lumen cheaper lights coming out right now. The Cyrgolite Hotshot 150 is an example as well. Must be that the price of the required LED for that light level just took a jump down. This may be the new price point for the higher end mass market lights now. 150 lumens used to be the territory for the more boutique power lights last year (i.e. Lupine, et al).

I just got a notification that my Hotshot 150 just shipped from REI. Should be interesting if they have the same directed beam that the other Hotshots have.

J.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

JohnJ80 said:


> There seem to be a whole crop of 150 lumen cheaper lights coming out right now. The Cyrgolite Hotshot 150 is an example as well. Must be that the price of the required LED for that light level just took a jump down. This may be the new price point for the higher end mass market lights now. 150 lumens used to be the territory for the more boutique power lights last year (i.e. Lupine, et al).
> 
> I just got a notification that my Hotshot 150 just shipped from REI. *Should be interesting if they have the same directed beam that the other Hotshots have.*
> 
> J.


It's still a tight spot...BUT...not a circle spot. More of a narrow elliptical spot.. If you aim it straight back you'll still get a beam pattern that is very visible at distance but unlike the original Hotshot it will be more visible as you approach on the left. Less light is wasted on the ground and in the air. The people who like the super wide and omni-wide lights probably won't like it though. Me, I like it but only because I use other wider beam pattern rear lights in combo. I'm only going to use it though with my road set-up because the seat post mount hardware is not quick release. ( the lamp itself can quick release from the mount though ).


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## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

Slightly OT, but does anyone consider these 150 lumen lights too bright for night time use? Winter is coming, been happy with my original HotShot but the new crop looks interesting.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> It's still a tight spot...BUT...not a circle spot. More of a narrow elliptical spot.. If you aim it straight back you'll still get a beam pattern that is very visible at distance but unlike the original Hotshot it will be more visible as you approach on the left. Less light is wasted on the ground and in the air. The people who like the super wide and omni-wide lights probably won't like it though. Me, I like it but only because I use other wider beam pattern rear lights in combo. I'm only going to use it though with my road set-up because the seat post mount hardware is not quick release. ( the lamp itself can quick release from the mount though ).


That's too bad. I'll have to send it back. Permanent mounts don't work for me on the seat post. I had presumed that it would have the rubber strap like the Hotshot Micro has.



formula4speed said:


> Slightly OT, but does anyone consider these 150 lumen lights too bright for night time use? Winter is coming, been happy with my original HotShot but the new crop looks interesting.


No. More is better. I typically ride with taillights that are much brighter than that.


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

The Hotshot 150 allows enough control that I'm not concerned about it being an unsafe distraction. Using the adjustable pulse mode strikes a good balance, IMO. I also agree with Cat about using a second light; helmet mounted is a good spot.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

I've read this thread with interest but here in the UK not all the lights are available. I've narrowed it down to the Bontrager Flare R and the NiteRider Solas 150 but have a query for you guys.

The Bontrager is only rated at 65 lumens as opposed to the NiteRider's 150 but all the videos and tests I've seen the Bontrager seems to be brighter (or at least more visible) especially on the day shots I've seen.

Can anyone who has seen both in the flesh comment on this?


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## ~Ish (Aug 25, 2009)

JohnJ80 said:


> That's too bad. I'll have to send it back. Permanent mounts don't work for me on the seat post. I had presumed that it would have the rubber strap like the Hotshot Micro has.


Agreed. I wasn't happy the Hotshot 150 had a "permanent" mount. However, they sell extra mounts for $4.95 so I a just going to buy a couple more mounts to put on my other bikes so I can quickly switch the light between bikes.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

formula4speed said:


> Slightly OT, but does anyone consider these 150 lumen lights too bright for night time use? Winter is coming, been happy with my original HotShot but the new crop looks interesting.


I'd go along with more is better, but would add even more so in a night environment with saturated background lighting.


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## bhosty1 (Oct 22, 2015)

OverTheHill said:


> I've read this thread with interest but here in the UK not all the lights are available. I've narrowed it down to the Bontrager Flare R and the NiteRider Solas 150 but have a query for you guys.
> 
> The Bontrager is only rated at 65 lumens as opposed to the NiteRider's 150 but all the videos and tests I've seen the Bontrager seems to be brighter (or at least more visible) especially on the day shots I've seen.
> 
> Can anyone who has seen both in the flesh comment on this?


Aldi are currently selling Moon Nebula clones for £12.99 - the rear is rated at 100 lumens, its a very wide diffuse pattern - superb value!


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

bhosty1 said:


> Aldi are currently selling Moon Nebula clones for £12.99 - the rear is rated at 100 lumens, its a very wide diffuse pattern - superb value!


Thanks of the heads-up bhosty1 but I looked at that and I'm not convinced that 100 lumens from 50 LEDs has quite the same punch as 150 lumens from one but I'm happy to be proved wrong.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

OverTheHill said:


> I've read this thread with interest but here in the UK not all the lights are available. *I've narrowed it down to the Bontrager Flare R and the NiteRider Solas 150 but have a query for you guys.*
> 
> The Bontrager is only rated at 65 lumens as opposed to the NiteRider's 150 but all the videos and tests I've seen the Bontrager seems to be brighter (or at least more visible) especially on the day shots I've seen.
> 
> Can anyone who has seen both in the flesh comment on this?


FWIW, over the weekend I had a chance to check out the Niterider Solas 100 at the local REI. Unfortunately they didn't have the 150 at the store but I was very impressed with what I saw from the 100. Looks to have a wider beam than the Cygolite Hotshot 150 but under lit store conditions I couldn't tell for sure. I will say the 100 was damn bright. Side visibility is indeed better than the Hotshot 150. Seems the Solas models have a secondary Led under the main LED and the second functions a lot like what the lower LED's on the Planetbike Superflash's do ( only brighter ). It's the secondary led that seems to provide the extra side lighting. The different modes looked useful but unlike the Cygolite's I don't believe you can make any adjustments to the modes. Looks like the Sola's use a quick release type rubber strap mount ( looking at them on-line ) ( couldn't see the mounts in the store ).


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## lighty (Mar 26, 2016)

Orfos lux is no where NEAR the ds-500. I have had both. Orfos has more flood, and is great at night, but nothing is worth jack **** in the day compared to ds-500.



gipsyman said:


> I have ridden over 6000 miles with a DS-500 on level 1-2 pulsing for night use and level 4 strobe for day use. At level 1-2 triple pulse on Michigan back country roads I was having cars slowing down a quarter mile behind me. A few cars a week were turning around because they were afraid to pass me. I assumed they thought I was a cop so they decided not to approach too closely in their alcohol or drug altered states. Even when riding through inner city gang infested areas of New England at night, I never had any trouble with a 1500 lux flashing red tail light. In my experience the DS-500 is very effective at keeping people away who want to avoid the police. All of the output, pulse, and strobe modes can be customized. The lowest constant on level of the light draws just over one half watt which is amazingly efficient. Here are some hard numbers. The lumens readings are manufacturers estimates the rest are mine. These are the following measurements I took at one meter after letting the light warm up for 60 seconds:
> 
> LEVEL___LUX___LUMENS___WATTS
> 
> ...


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

I'm hoping Ituo gives the DS-500 some serious competition soon. Repacking 1/2 of a Wiz20 into tail light form seems a possible course.


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

I've just put a cree xp-e2 red in a convoy s2+ to use as a rear light which should be 150+ lumens which seems quite bright. Certainly don't think i'd need more for night riding.. don't want to distract drivers.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

I've been looking at a lot of taillights, watching YouTube videos, reading marketing blurbs and also forum threads like this one. I'm coming to the conclusion that maybe it's not just about pure light power or lumens. One of the videos I watched made that very fact comparing a 100 lumen light where the pattern was scattered as opposed to a 1 lumen focussed laser.

I'm thinking that maybe light focus and flash pattern are just as important as a powerful beam. For instance, check out the manufacturer's official videos for the Niterider Solas 150 versus the Bontrager Flare R. The Solas 150 just looks almost insignificant during the day compared to the Flare R which you can apparently see a long way off. I know these are just videos but the Solas 150 at 150 lumens is more than twice the brightness rating of the Flare R at 65 lumens. I can't understand why Niterider would release a video that shows their product so poorly.

I haven't seen either product in the flesh and I guess that's the next step but I'm thinking that maybe this is a case where more is not necessarily better.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

bhosty1 said:


> Aldi are currently selling Moon Nebula clones for £12.99 - the rear is rated at 100 lumens, its a very wide diffuse pattern - superb value!


I ended up buying one of the Aldi lights and it's actually quite impressive and as you say bhosty1, superb value for money. It even comes with three separate mounts.

I'm still not sure it will be up to the likes of the Bontrager or Niterider in terms of daytime visibility but for a third of the price it's worth a gamble and is still a great secondary light.

EDIT: I just tried the light in daylight and it is easily visible in medium flashing mode from over 200 yards. Sorry Bontrager and/or Niterider you just lost my business Off to buy another one now!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

OverTheHill said:


> I've been looking at a lot of taillights, watching YouTube videos, reading marketing blurbs and also forum threads like this one. I'm coming to the conclusion that maybe it's not just about pure light power or lumens. One of the videos I watched made that very fact comparing a 100 lumen light where the pattern was scattered as opposed to a 1 lumen focussed laser.
> 
> I'm thinking that maybe light focus and flash pattern are just as important as a powerful beam. For instance, check out the manufacturer's official videos for the Niterider Solas 150 versus the Bontrager Flare R. The Solas 150 just looks almost insignificant during the day compared to the Flare R which you can apparently see a long way off. I know these are just videos but the Solas 150 at 150 lumens is more than twice the brightness rating of the Flare R at 65 lumens.* I can't understand why Niterider would release a video that shows their product so poorly.*
> 
> I haven't seen either product in the flesh and I guess that's the next step but I'm thinking that maybe this is a case where more is not necessarily better.


I wouldn't either unless they don't understand that viewing any rear led lamp during the day is just not going to look very impressive when viewed on video. I've seen the official "Flare R" video and it didn't impress me at all but like I said, that doesn't surprise me. Video just can't represent what the eye sees when viewing LED's, particularly during the day. Just last night I was trying to take a photo of my Hotshot 150 from the side. The camera for some reason was making the photo look as though the entire back ground was red ( which wasn't the case ). Odd, but photos and video are just untrustworthy sometimes.

You also need to remember rule #1; Never trust a manufacturer's own videos , photo's or reviews. User reviews on forums like these are your best bet for honest opinions.


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## lighty (Mar 26, 2016)

The ds-500 is the ONLY daytime capable tail light. Dinotte 400r just looks like dots blinking in the day. The ds-500 looks like abball of red. Orfos may be ramping up to make a light similar to the ds-500, but right now nothing else comes close for daytime. Like the orfos flare for night. Ideal would be two flares on medium. They aren't blinding and I like the flood effect.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

lighty said:


> The ds-500 is the ONLY daytime capable tail light. Dinotte 400r just looks like dots blinking in the day. The ds-500 looks like abball of red. Orfos may be ramping up to make a light similar to the ds-500, but right now nothing else comes close for daytime. Like the orfos flare for night. Ideal would be two flares on medium. They aren't blinding and I like the flood effect.


Personally I wouldn't be that dogmatic. I just bought a 100 lumen tail light for $20 and I could see that distinctly in bright sunlight from over 200 yards away even on its medium setting.

You might be right that nothing comes close to the DS-500 but to a lot of people 800 lumens and $229 is way too excessive. How conspicuous do you need to be?


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## lighty (Mar 26, 2016)

Buy one! Find out! I had to eat poorly for two months to afford it! But it was worth it!


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## flat (Jul 31, 2016)

You could've eaten better by putting a red diffuser over a much brighter Ituo Wiz20. 

... or one of their XP series.

... or by mounting multiple 150 lumen lights to your helmet, seat post, rack, and seat stays.

There are multiple ways to get the job done.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

lighty said:


> The ds-500 is the ONLY daytime capable tail light. Dinotte 400r just looks like dots blinking in the day. The ds-500 looks like abball of red. Orfos may be ramping up to make a light similar to the ds-500, but right now nothing else comes close for daytime. Like the orfos flare for night. Ideal would be two flares on medium. They aren't blinding and I like the flood effect.


Not to diss what you said about the DS lamp but over the years the DiNotte 400R has been widely used by many and I've never heard anyone claim, quote, "...just looks like dots blinking in the day". Sorry, but I have a hard time believing anything rated at 400 lumen would just appear to be a sequence of dots. Not saying it's better than the DS just saying it has to be better than how you made it sound. I do know that the DiNotte lamps offer some decent flash patterns so I would think it to be a decent lamp for daytime use. Of course there is also the DiNotte Daytime -Red which should be a bit brighter than the standard 400R.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Not to diss what you said about the DS lamp but over the years the DiNotte 400R has been widely used by many and I've never heard anyone claim, quote, "...just looks like dots blinking in the day". Sorry, but I have a hard time believing anything rated at 400 lumen would just appear to be a sequence of dots. Not saying it's better than the DS just saying it has to be better than how you made it sound. I do know that the DiNotte lamps offer some decent flash patterns so I would think it to be a decent lamp for daytime use. Of course there is also the DiNotte Daytime -Red which should be a bit brighter than the standard 400R.


Imo ambient daylight and exposure angles can make both or your statements true.

Late afternoon, with taillight pointed about SW.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)




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## Corbinworks (Aug 15, 2011)

Well I got my Dinotte XML-3 and am waiting on the DS-500 to get here.. 
I didnt order the battery for the DS because I wanted to see if the plus is the same for the DS & the XML.. if they are the same and I can use the batterys I will order the larger battery for the XML from designshine 
and use the one from Dinotte for the DS...


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Corbinworks said:


> Well I got my Dinotte XML-3 and am waiting on the DS-500 to get here..
> I didnt order the battery for the DS because I wanted to see if the plus is the same for the DS & the XML.. if they are the same and I can use the batterys I will order the larger battery for the XML from designshine
> and use the one from Dinotte for the DS...


Looking forward to your impressions. I'm basically spoiled with battery/light all-in-one's but never say never. Especially if I went with an e-bike for commuting.


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## juergenor (Mar 30, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Not to diss what you said about the DS lamp but over the years the DiNotte 400R has been widely used by many and I've never heard anyone claim, quote, "...just looks like dots blinking in the day". Sorry, but I have a hard time believing anything rated at 400 lumen would just appear to be a sequence of dots. Not saying it's better than the DS just saying it has to be better than how you made it sound. I do know that the DiNotte lamps offer some decent flash patterns so I would think it to be a decent lamp for daytime use. Of course there is also the DiNotte Daytime -Red which should be a bit brighter than the standard 400R.


I own the DiNotte Daytime Red and can confirm that this is the brightest red tail light I have ever see. BTW - it also works great at night. Greatest advantage is that car driver with sunglasses can see you and at night drivers can spot you from far away. Highly recommended and very reliable - I have mine for years.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Would have been nice if this DS-500 vid showed other lights as benchmarks for comparison. Can't really tell if the DS-500 at close range is showing objectionable brightness to drivers.

[video]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1pjhwi_ds-500_sport[/video]


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

lighty said:


> The ds-500 is the ONLY daytime capable tail light.


Your statement reveals your ignorance of visual signal laws. Automotive brake lamps that meet NHTSA requirements are in the 300-500lm range. You completely discounted every brake lamp produced during the last 50 years.

In the US, the NHTSA sets minimums and maximums for both the direction and level of light emitted from head, turn, clearance, and brake lamps mounted on vehicles. There's little doubt the DS-500 exceeds those limits, and in doing so creates both distraction and glare for following road users. Blinding following drivers is not the same as being seen.

It's time for the MOAR IS BETTAH crowd to settle down, including the mfg's. It's getting hard to distinguish them from the asshats that mount 120,000lm off-road lights on their jacked rigs, and proudly boast of their conquests in blinding other drivers. I 'lump' them both in the same group as coal rollers.

As fast as the lumens are jumping in bike lamps, the NHTSA will eventually catch wind and will clarify regulations for non-permanent lights permitted for road use, so enjoy things as they are while you can. In the meantime, if you get a ticket for blinding other users, and can actually find a judge willing to hear your arguments, they are going to tell you to follow the rules for the most similar vehicle, which means you need to meet the lumen spread, fill, and cutoff requirements for motorcycles, which not a single lamp made for the US market can meet, so good luck with that.

We have enough trouble having motorists held to account for taking risks around us, the last thing we need is drivers being excused for killing cyclists because we're all considered a bunch of rogue asshats that run lights so bright it's our own damn fault for getting run over.

Road are multi-use. We demand equal share, but expect special treatment on some things (off-road lights, ignoring stop signs, taking the lane for our 30 mile ride because we're a group)? How does that ever going to work for us?


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## gipsyman (Nov 18, 2014)

pigmode said:


> Would have been nice if this DS-500 vid showed other lights as benchmarks for comparison. Can't really tell if the DS-500 at close range is showing objectionable brightness to drivers.
> 
> [video]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1pjhwi_ds-500_sport[/video]


Pigmode

Thanks for the video of the RZ8. It clearly shows you need lenses on the leds for long range visibility during the mid-day sun. It should make a great night or city light though.

The DS-500 isn't too bright for high noon daytime use even on the brightest level. At night you can turn it down so nobody whines except bicyclists following you. Anyway, if you ride with others, you should use just a small self contained light.

In Arizona's flat, treeless desert country, a very bright light in the day is just common sense. A driver in AZ can run you over and kill you, then plead they didn't see you and will get off with a maximum $1000 fine if convicted. That is if they even stop and report the crime. I have had to report 2 hit and runs on bicyclists over the years. The bikers weren't killed but they were seriously injured. You are a third class citizen in many states, just below motorcyclists.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

Personally I get the feeling that most car-on-bike accidents are down to bad judgement, carelessness or sheer bloody-mindedness on the part of the driver rather than just not being noticed. It doesn't matter how bright your back light is in most cases. 

You could even argue that a driver annoyed by too bright a back light deliberately does a close pass to get back at a cyclist. Close passes happen quite regularly in the UK believe me on our narrow, windy roads. We get close, warning passes sometimes if we hold up a driver for two seconds.

So much so that police forces over here are starting to set traps for close passers and prosecute. In contrast drivers are much more considerate to cyclists over in mainland Europe such as France, Spain and Italy where cycling has a very long history and tradition.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Flamingtaco said:


> Your statement reveals your ignorance of visual signal laws. Automotive brake lamps that meet NHTSA requirements are in the 300-500lm range. You completely discounted every brake lamp produced during the last 50 years.
> 
> In the US, the NHTSA sets minimums and maximums for both the direction and level of light emitted from head, turn, clearance, and brake lamps mounted on vehicles. There's little doubt the DS-500 exceeds those limits, and in doing so creates both distraction and glare for following road users. Blinding following drivers is not the same as being seen.
> 
> ...


My take on all of this; According to Wikipedia, the NHSTSA concern is mainly for "motorized vehicles". As such it has it's hands full just trying to keep auto makers in line with current or updated standards. Not to mention that I'm seeing more and more newer cars with headlights not only brighter than typical halogen lights but bright enough to cast shadows in front of the cars they are following. Cycling laws on the other hand are usually controlled at the local level and even those are rarely ( if ever ) enforced.

I don't think the person using a DS500 bike lamp ( at night ) is going to use the full output. During daylight I don't think the lamp would be any brighter than other lamps typically used for roadside safety ( construction or roadside work vehicles / tow trucks / Police or Fire vehicles )

Nope, I don't foresee local legislators passing laws that would limit the cyclists from protecting themselves. Some of them ride bikes too and know of people who have been killed by the idiots in cars who aren't paying attention to what's in front of them ( or simply don't care )...Not to mention that the people who ride bikes have organizations that lobby the government to provide more and better conditions for cycling and cycling safety. Certainly they wouldn't want to sponsor legislation that would limit the cyclist from protecting themselves either.

*FT*, don't worry about the idiots who post saying they have 12000 lumen setups that they use on the roads. My guess is that they are just saying that to goad you into an argument. Anyway, take a drive in your car late in the afternoon as the sun is setting. Drive toward the sun. If you can handle THAT you can handle a DS500 ( which in no way even compares ). There are many things about driving a car that can be annoying. When it comes to bike lamps PLEASE...put all things in perspective. If you do then you realize that anything having to do with bicycles ( on the road ) is virtually ( as it relates to motor vehicles ) inconsequential. ~ ~ ~

( **Correction** In my one of my previous posts I stated that the DiNotte 400R was 400 lumen. Someone on another forum pointed out to me the other day that I was wrong about that. _400R indeed is listed as 240 lumen. _ Somehow that got by me, sorry about that. )

Took a short road ride last night with my new Cygolite Hotshot 150 on the seat post. First ride with the 150. I got passed by a guy in an SUV who wound down his window and yelled at me, "That's a great Idea!" My bike is covered in lights that are visible from the rear. One on each lower seat stay, seat post , back of helmet and lastly wheel lights. Judging from his tone I'm not sure if he was giving me a compliment or being sarcastic. When I got back to the house I walked behind my bike a good ways to get an idea of what it looked like from behind. Goodness! HS150 is so bright it almost makes using the seat stay lamps a waste of time.


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## gipsyman (Nov 18, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> Put all things in perspective. If you do then you realize that anything having to do with bicycles ( on the road ) is virtually ( as it relates to motor vehicles ) inconsequential. ~ ~ ~


You couldn't have said that any better.

The new police LED white lights and colored strobes will slow you down like nothing I have seen at night before.

Last year I spoke to Dan Delisle who used to work for NHTSA and he said they haven't had any issues with bicycles yet.


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## gipsyman (Nov 18, 2014)

OverTheHill said:


> Personally I get the feeling that most car-on-bike accidents are down to bad judgement, carelessness or sheer bloody-mindedness on the part of the driver rather than just not being noticed. It doesn't matter how bright your back light is in most cases.
> 
> You could even argue that a driver annoyed by too bright a back light deliberately does a close pass to get back at a cyclist. Close passes happen quite regularly in the UK believe me on our narrow, windy roads. We get close, warning passes sometimes if we hold up a driver for two seconds.
> 
> So much so that police forces over here are starting to set traps for close passers and prosecute. In contrast drivers are much more considerate to cyclists over in mainland Europe such as France, Spain and Italy where cycling has a very long history and tradition.


When you (or your survivors) appear in court, it makes a world of difference how visible you are to car drivers. Reason being, that is what the bad judgment, careless or sheer bloody-minded driver's actions will be judged against when they claim they didn't see you. Whether you use bright clothing or bright lights it all matters for your defense as to being highly visible to car drivers. Maybe in the UK high visibility isn't your main way for road riding defense, but it is here in the USA.

I have had close passes in Michigan, Texas, and Arizona but only in rural areas when no other traffic was there to witness the near hits. The worst actions come out in the worst people when they don't think they are being observed. When riding in California and Connecticut I haven't had any intentional harassment.

Town police in the above states I have spoken to were willing to prosecute if I could get the vehicle description and license plate number. Acquiring that plate number from a vehicle moving away at 60-80 mph is very difficult though. Especially at night when the close passes happened.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

gipsyman said:


> When you (or your survivors) appear in court, it makes a world of difference how visible you are to car drivers. Reason being, that is what the bad judgment, careless or sheer bloody-minded driver's actions will be judged against when they claim they didn't see you. Whether you use bright clothing or bright lights it all matters for your defense as to being highly visible to car drivers. Maybe in the UK high visibility isn't your main way for road riding defense, but it is here in the USA.
> 
> I have had close passes in Michigan, Texas, and Arizona but only in rural areas when no other traffic was there to witness the near hits. The worst actions come out in the worst people when they don't think they are being observed. When riding in California and Connecticut I haven't had any intentional harassment.
> 
> Town police in the above states I have spoken to were willing to prosecute if I could get the vehicle description and license plate number. Acquiring that plate number from a vehicle moving away at 60-80 mph is very difficult though. Especially at night when the close passes happened.


I agree with what you say, visibility is important including bright or reflective clothing and lights day or night. What I'm not so sure about is the fashion for increasingly bright rear lights like the DS500.

More is not always better and the tendancy will be for some people not to use sensible judgement and have them on the higher levels day or night. There must be a level of diminishing returns where brighter lights do not provide any material increase in visibility but will cause increasing annoyance to drivers.

With all bike lights getting increasingly powerful I think we are approaching the time when legislators will start to get involved and limit them to ridiculous levels as per Germany.


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## gipsyman (Nov 18, 2014)

OverTheHill said:


> I agree with what you say, visibility is important including bright or reflective clothing and lights day or night. What I'm not so sure about is the fashion for increasingly bright rear lights like the DS500.
> 
> More is not always better and the tendancy will be for some people not to use sensible judgement and have them on the higher levels day or night. There must be a level of diminishing returns where brighter lights do not provide any material increase in visibility but will cause increasing annoyance to drivers.
> 
> With all bike lights getting increasingly powerful I think we are approaching the time when legislators will start to get involved and limit them to ridiculous levels as per Germany.


If someone is using a Dinotte daytime red on high for night time use they should be spanked. Tailoring a front or rear light's output to road or trail conditions is essential to safety. I ride on high traffic speed flat rural desert roads where people have 15 seconds or less to notice me ahead in a quarter mile of travel. Add in dirty windshields, sunglasses, and traffic in front of that driver and a very bright tail light during the day is good insurance. At night even a $25 blinky works fine on a flat straight desert road.

Increasingly bright lights at night do annoy some drivers and that is the last thing you want to do to someone piloting 3000-6000 pounds of steel. As you stated earlier beam shape and flash pattern are paramount to a light's intended performance. I run a DS-500 on the lowest levels at night with a triple blink and the only people who become aggressive are those few who had to slow down a quarter mile back because they thought I was a cop. During the day I haven't seen any LED lights that were too bright. We bikers, including the police have to compete with the sun.

I think front lights will be regulated first because of the glaring color of high kelvin temp lights on bikes. When was the last time you said, "Gee, I like that car's bluish white LED or Plasma discharge beam in my face".


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## SAVAGESAM (Jan 14, 2008)

I have a blackburn "Flea" Or "Superflea". It's very compact. After watching these videos. I going to have my Son record mine today @ High Noon. I must admit. I've never done this and am very curious now.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

OverTheHill said:


> I agree with what you say, visibility is important including bright or reflective clothing and lights day or night. What I'm not so sure about is the fashion for increasingly bright rear lights like the DS500.
> 
> More is not always better and the tendancy will be for some people not to use sensible judgement and have them on the higher levels day or night. There must be a level of diminishing returns where brighter lights do not provide any material increase in visibility but will cause increasing annoyance to drivers.
> 
> With all bike lights getting increasingly powerful I think we are approaching the time when legislators will start to get involved and limit them to ridiculous levels as per Germany.


I live in a state where cycling is quite a popular method of transportation. I drive for a living and a lot of that driving is at night. I don't see anyone using super bright rear lamps. Occasionally I see someone using one of the newest self-contained rear lamps but it is still rare. I can't imagine anyone trying to ban cyclists from using a product designed to help get them seen. Right now I think the current crop of self-contained rear lights are bright enough to get the job done. The only improvement needed might be better UI's, batteries with longer run times and or replaceable batteries.

Not saying other people are like me but a couple years ago I was using a rear lamp that had to be outputting close to 200 lumen. It was friggin bright and ran off a two cell set-up. Not long after I bought a Serfas TL60 self-contained lamp. I was so impressed with the Serfas that I simply decided not to bother with the brighter lamp ( for night use ). The Serfas was just more easy to work with and I was satisfied that it was bright enough to be easily seen at night at a good distance. Not to mention that it was lighter and more compact. Now I figure that if I figured that out that other people will as well. The new series of self-contained lamps are awesome and are very visible at night. Yes, I did just buy the new Cygolite 150 but truthfully, I really didn't need it.  The lamps rated at 60 lumens are more than adequate to get you seen at night ( or at dusk ). Few people use the truly high powered Daytime lamps and to date I have yet to see anyone using one. Personally I don't feel I need one but if I did I have a couple lamps that should work well in the daytime.

Anyway, with all that said; Most of the time I see people using rear lights they are usually the most pathetic / cheapie / low-output lamps you can buy. Obviously not everyone who rides a bike is willing to fork out $30-$50 for a decent rear lamp. Either that or they just don't know that better lamps are available.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gipsyman said:


> ...The new police LED white lights and colored strobes will slow you down like nothing I have seen at night before...


Yep. I've gotten behind some of the newer Police lights that are so bright that I had to put my hand up to block them out. Most have a lower setting for when they are stopped but sometimes they forget and leave the buggers on full blast.

Now for those people who think a single blinking light doesn't do much I have a short story: At one of my favorite trail heads I have to park on the side of a very dark but sometimes busy road. A while back I got the idea that I could use one of my older rear bike lights to alert motorists to the presence of my vehicle while I was out riding. Basically I took my older Cygolite Hotshot, set it on slow fade ( in /out ), set it on the back seat pointed to the rear and just let it run. Last night while on my ride as I was about to get back to my car I could see a car approaching my vehicle while I was still back in the woods. With my lights off I sat there watching because I could see the car beginning to really slow down. Had me worried because I thought maybe it was a Police car. The car ended up passing my car at about 5-10mph! When I popped out of the woods I turned my lights back on and rode a short distance up the road so I could see what the Hotshot looked like inside my car. Seems it was very visible and certainly was one of my better ideas. Without the light the only thing my car had going was a set of small reflectors that were barely noticeable.


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## lighty (Mar 26, 2016)

I have had the 300r and 400r and know damn well what they look like from a distance during the day. They look like two little red dots. The ds-500 looks like a fireball. And why would I buy a seperate light just to have daytime brightness? I can get it all with the ds-500.



Cat-man-do said:


> Not to diss what you said about the DS lamp but over the years the DiNotte 400R has been widely used by many and I've never heard anyone claim, quote, "...just looks like dots blinking in the day". Sorry, but I have a hard time believing anything rated at 400 lumen would just appear to be a sequence of dots. Not saying it's better than the DS just saying it has to be better than how you made it sound. I do know that the DiNotte lamps offer some decent flash patterns so I would think it to be a decent lamp for daytime use. Of course there is also the DiNotte Daytime -Red which should be a bit brighter than the standard 400R.


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## lighty (Mar 26, 2016)

On that note, I wonder what dinotte is going to come out with to counter the new $50 150 lumen lights.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

lighty said:


> I have had the 300r and 400r and know damn well what they look like from a distance during the day. They look like two little red dots. The ds-500 looks like a fireball. And why would I buy a seperate light just to have daytime brightness? I can get it all with the ds-500.


Yours must be defective then. I own them both and they are extremely visible and noticeable during daylight operation. Your characterization of them as two "two little red dots" is simply wrong.

J.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

lighty said:


> I have had the 300r and 400r and know damn well what they look like from a distance during the day. They look like two little red dots. The ds-500 looks like a fireball. And why would I buy a seperate light just to have daytime brightness? I can get it all with the ds-500.


First, I need to correct something I said before. The DiNotte 400R is not 400 lumen, it is listed as 240 lumen. Still, something that is using two emitters and outputting 240 lumen I wouldn't think to look like, " two little red dots". That said I don't doubt that the DS500 is brighter and a better lamp. I'm not trying to argue so I think I understand what you are saying only you made the DiNotte's sound like they weren't even in the same league. I have rear lamps in the 200 lumen range and they are very visible in the day.

Now what you said about, "..Why would I buy a separate light just to have daytime brightness? I can get it all with the ds-500"... While true not many people feel the need for a lamp with extreme Daylight brightness. If you use one it means carrying an extra external battery and the lamp itself has more weight and a bigger footprint on the bike. Where I live I really don't think I'd need such a lamp...however..._*there are places_ I could go that having a DS500 on the back of my bike _might_ give me some extra peace of mind. ( * thinking rural, quiet country back roads with speed limits near 50 mph where the local Ya'hoos driving pick-ups and 18-wheelers sometimes drive like total AHats. ) Make them think that perhaps an emergency vehicle is on the side of the road ahead of them and they might slow down and take notice.


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## tjl5709 (Mar 23, 2006)

*I will not compromise*



gipsyman said:


> If someone is using a Dinotte daytime red on high for night time use they should be spanked. Tailoring a front or rear light's output to road or trail conditions is essential to safety. I ride on high traffic speed flat rural desert roads where people have 15 seconds or less to notice me ahead in a quarter mile of travel. Add in dirty windshields, sunglasses, and traffic in front of that driver and a very bright tail light during the day is good insurance. At night even a $25 blinky works fine on a flat straight desert road.
> 
> Increasingly bright lights at night do annoy some drivers and that is the last thing you want to do to someone piloting 3000-6000 pounds of steel. As you stated earlier beam shape and flash pattern are paramount to a light's intended performance. I run a DS-500 on the lowest levels at night with a triple blink and the only people who become aggressive are those few who had to slow down a quarter mile back because they thought I was a cop. During the day I haven't seen any LED lights that were too bright. We bikers, including the police have to compete with the sun.
> 
> I think front lights will be regulated first because of the glaring color of high kelvin temp lights on bikes. When was the last time you said, "Gee, I like that car's bluish white LED or Plasma discharge beam in my face".


Regulate all you want. I will use the brightest I can get and happily pay the fine. When the cops start ticketing mindless drivers who pass to close, swerve in lanes texting, and every other distraction they undertake, then I will consider toning down on the lumens. There is a reason people need/want these lights when they ride. Its to get the attention of these mindless, distracted drivers.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Driver distraction due to brightness is affected by a number of factors other than rear light intensity. This would include mounting angle of the light itself (facing downward, drivers eye level etc), the lens configuration and specific LED emitter's effect on beam shape, and the intensity and nominal directionality of sunlight. 

My anecdotal experience is a bicycle rear light's intensity is most washed out when moving away from a low lying sun (mid-morning, late-afternoon), where sunlight is pointed more or less directly at the light. 

Imo it would be difficult to judge a rear light to be detrimental to driver safety based strictly on light intensity specification, without a given amount of hands on experience with the light in question.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gipsyman said:


> Increasingly bright lights at night do annoy some drivers and that is the last thing you want to do to someone piloting 3000-6000 pounds of steel. As you stated earlier beam shape and flash pattern are paramount to a light's intended performance. I run a DS-500 on the lowest levels at night with a triple blink and the only people who become aggressive are those few who had to slow down a quarter mile back because they thought I was a cop. During the day I haven't seen any LED lights that were too bright. We bikers, including the police have to compete with the sun.
> 
> I think front lights will be regulated first because of the glaring color of high kelvin temp lights on bikes. When was the last time you said, "Gee, I like that car's bluish white LED or Plasma discharge beam in my face".


Yes, increasingly bright lights do annoy drivers but truthfully it's usually the head lights on the newer motor vehicles that are the primary and most prolific source of irritation. As for some people being irritated by a cyclist and the lights they are using; Yeah, I suppose it happens but more than likely the same person that is irritated by a cyclist using bright lamps is also just irritated by the presence of the cyclist on the road ( in front of them ) period. Some people just get upset because there is something in front of them that they have to avoid. Yeah, it's going to happen. That said you can't change the reality that there are going to be people like that ( regardless of what you do or don't do ).

With that in mind do what you can to make your presence known while cycling. When it comes to cycling ( day or night ), better to use more safety measures than needed than to use less and run the risk of "fading into the background" and not being seen by those people who consistently drive while being distracted. All things said, your greatest threat on the road is not the dreaded "bike hater" but the everyday careless or distracted driver. If you can somehow alert _those people_ to your presence on the road "before it's too late", you've taken the first steps into protecting yourself from becoming "roadkill". The other idiots who just hate you for being on two wheels....those you really can't do anything about except pray that they don't act too much like an idiot the moment when they are passing you.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yes, increasingly bright lights do annoy drivers but truthfully it's usually the head lights on the newer motor vehicles that are the primary and most prolific source of irritation. As for some people being irritated by a cyclist and the lights they are using; Yeah, I suppose it happens but more than likely the same person that is irritated by a cyclist using bright lamps is also just irritated by the presence of the cyclist on the road ( in front of them ) period. Some people just get upset because there is something in front of them that they have to avoid. Yeah, it's going to happen. That said you can't change the reality that there are going to be people like that ( regardless of what you do or don't do ).
> 
> With that in mind do what you can to make your presence known while cycling. When it comes to cycling ( day or night ), better to use more safety measures than needed than to use less and run the risk of "fading into the background" and not being seen by those people who consistently drive while being distracted. All things said, your greatest threat on the road is not the dreaded "bike hater" but the everyday careless or distracted driver. If you can somehow alert _those people_ to your presence on the road "before it's too late", you've taken the first steps into protecting yourself from becoming "roadkill". The other idiots who just hate you for being on two wheels....those you really can't do anything about except pray that they don't act too much like an idiot the moment when they are passing you.


Great summary. To hitch on this a bit: cyclists went to LED lighting before the automotive market did. I don't find much of a difference from looking at a cyclist's LED bright headlight than I do with a car with LED front lighting. There is something harsher about a small point source of light, but it's no longer unique to cyclists. Therefore, I think this concern is going to be swamped out by the signal to noise issue with all the cars that will have LED lighting from now forward. Bright LED lighting on bicycles will become even more of a non-issue than it already is.

With respect to the irritating aspect of cycling lights. For the purposes of argument, lets just presume they are (although I don't think that is the case, but for argument alone). If so, that would not stop my usage of them simply because a cyclist is far more vulnerable than that allegedly irritated driver in the car. If the price of the cyclist safety is the (arguable) annoyance of the vehicle driver, then that's an acceptable tradeoff and fair. You want "annoying" and "irritating", try running over a cyclist and killing them and then being sued for wrongful death by their surviving heirs. Not to mention the "irritation" of having the psychological damage that comes from being the perpetrator of an event like that (presuming the average driver is not a total sociopath). So if the cyclist has a bright light that could be annoying or irritating to vehicle drivers, in the greater picture that is deeply to the advantage of both parties. Only a sociopath would run a cyclist over just because of a bike light. The occurrences of sociopaths willing to act out and commit a homicide are thankfully rare and probably worth neglecting anyhow.

In a simple statistical sense, I'm sure that the likelihood of being run over by a sociopath driver over a bright light are a less than being run over by a driver that did not see you (if you did not have bright lights). So playing the odds dictates that the high survivor mode is having bright lights.

FWIW, I've had a sheriff's deputy pull over ahead of me and ask me where I got those "bright lights" because he wished "more cyclists had them." That's good enough for me.

J.


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## lighty (Mar 26, 2016)

Flamingtaco said:


> Your statement reveals your ignorance of visual signal laws. Automotive brake lamps that meet NHTSA requirements are in the 300-500lm range. You completely discounted every brake lamp produced during the last 50 years.
> 
> In the US, the NHTSA sets minimums and maximums for both the direction and level of light emitted from head, turn, clearance, and brake lamps mounted on vehicles. There's little doubt the DS-500 exceeds those limits, and in doing so creates both distraction and glare for following road users. Blinding following drivers is not the same as being seen.
> 
> ...


WTF are you talking about? The 800 lumens setting is for DAYTIME. It's not blinding at all. I actually got a complement once for it. They have lower settings for night use that are well below 300 lumen.

Also in response to other posters, the 400r is 240 lumens, not 400. That is basically the brightness of the blink on the ds-500 low night time setting. And I need a VERY large battery. Multiple smaller lights wouldn't have the run time or build quality.


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## lighty (Mar 26, 2016)

Cat-man-do said:


> First, I need to correct something I said before. The DiNotte 400R is not 400 lumen, it is listed as 240 lumen. Still, something that is using two emitters and outputting 240 lumen I wouldn't think to look like, " two little red dots". That said I don't doubt that the DS500 is brighter and a better lamp. I'm not trying to argue so I think I understand what you are saying only you made the DiNotte's sound like they weren't even in the same league. I have rear lamps in the 200 lumen range and they are very visible in the day.
> 
> Now what you said about, "..Why would I buy a separate light just to have daytime brightness? I can get it all with the ds-500"... While true not many people feel the need for a lamp with extreme Daylight brightness. If you use one it means carrying an extra external battery and the lamp itself has more weight and a bigger footprint on the bike. Where I live I really don't think I'd need such a lamp...however..._*there are places_ I could go that having a DS500 on the back of my bike _might_ give me some extra peace of mind. ( * thinking rural, quiet country back roads with speed limits near 50 mph where the local Ya'hoos driving pick-ups and 18-wheelers sometimes drive like total AHats. ) Make them think that perhaps an emergency vehicle is on the side of the road ahead of them and they might slow down and take notice.


Huh, rural roads are always the best for me. Unless going up a mountain for some reason. And yeah, many people don't stick to residential streets. Some of you seem to forget that many of us use the bike for transportation and that means less than ideal roads.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

lighty said:


> Huh, rural roads are always the best for me. Unless going up a mountain for some reason. And yeah, many people don't stick to residential streets. Some of you seem to forget that many of us use the bike for transportation and that means less than ideal roads.


I like rural roads too but the point I was making was that cyclists are sometimes a rarity on these types of road. ( once again, main rural roads with 50mph speed limits ) I drive these kinds of roads myself when doing my job from time to time and I can't remember a single time I saw a person riding a bike. Some of these roads see very little traffic but are nice smooth pavement with nice wide shoulders. Still, the people who live in these areas likely don't see too many cyclists on a regular basis so their presence ( when they do run across one ) might be totally unexpected. I'll also add that since these are "main roads" you see a lot of work vehicles and large 18-wheelers trucking along. That's why I said in that type of situation I'd like a nice bright rear light if I were to ride those kinds of roads during the day.

About what you said about the small self-contained lamps having shorter run times I suppose that's true. Not a real issue though unless you intend to use the lamp during the day and at night on a very long ride. Now if that were the case one could simply use two small lamps and/or charge one with a portable USB charger while the other is being used.


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## adams22 (Aug 4, 2017)

can u sell ds-500 tailing light ? condition working or not working.thanks


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## angerdan (Sep 18, 2017)

*Some update*



car bone said:


> The pecking order.
> Designshine ds-500- 800lm (6led)
> Niteflux redzone 8- 500lm (4led)
> Orfos red flare- 300lm (9led)
> ...


lm...Model
800 Designshine DS-500
300 Orfos FlarePro
200 Dinotte Quad RED
155 See.Sense 2.0 ELITE
150 Ituo Bolt
120 Niteflux Red Zone 8
100 Moon NEBULA
100 Cateye TL-LD720-R (Rapid X3)
..80 Serfas Spectra 150 TST-150
..65 Bontrager Flare R Tail light
..65 Lupine Rotlicht 2W
..60 Xeccon Mars 60
..50 Cateye TL-LD710-K (Rapid X2 Kinetic)
..50 Lezyne Strip Drive Pro (Rear)
..50 Cateye TL-LD710-R (Rapid X2)
..44 Knog Blinder MOB Mr Chips V
..25 Specialized Flux Tail Light 2015


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

angerdan said:


> lm...Model
> 800 Designshine DS-500
> 300 Orfos FlarePro
> 200 Dinotte Quad RED
> ...


May want to add Serfas SPECTRA 150 to the list


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## angerdan (Sep 18, 2017)

Thanks for the idea. But you don't have to full-quote (decreases readability).


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

angerdan said:


> Thanks for the idea. But you don't have to full-quote (decreases readability).


really ? who knew you are internet police ?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Anybody test the new Magicshine tail lights?
I am still happy with my Bontrager Flare R, but it's getting a bit dated.

Seemee 60 Bike Tail Light - Magicshine


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Jim, how are you liking the Serfas Spectra 150?


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Jim, how are you liking the Serfas Spectra 150?


We've had good luck with it and the daytime flash is VERY visible. Serfas's product support is very good.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Anybody know how it compares with the Cygolite Hotshot 150 Pro?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

You should look at Scar's Amoeba tail light.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Vancbiker said:


> You should look at Scar's Amoeba tail light.


I know it's great, but I'm looking for self-contained ones to recommend to my roadie friends.

I have something similar to the Amoeba DIY.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I have a Hotshot 100 and I've had people tell me at traffic lights how visible it is, even in full Texan sun. I have it on beacon and mounted to my camelbak, with my DIY on-and-flashing light attached to the rack and a cheapazz Chinese mini thing on my helmet.

I think that the 150 would be more than sufficient and getting towards the fuzzy "is this too bright" line.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I got my wife and my teammate both a Hotshot Pro 150. It's plenty visible in daylight, and a good bang for the buck.

I have a beef with it though- the operating system is a bit goofy.
2 buttons, one is on/off/change-modes, the other is flash rate which is just an occasional setup.

They would have been far better to have one button for on/off, and the second one for cycling through modes. It's too easy to change modes when you meant to just turn off.

Maybe some method of adjusting rate if you hold the second button down or something...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Jim, how are you liking the Serfas Spectra 150?


I've been a fan of the Serfas rear lamps for a long time. The Specta 150 looks like an upgraded version of the the TL-60 I own but no longer use. Still, it amazes me how bright the TL-60 is. The Spectra 150 looks to have some more interesting features. Better mode groups ( including a low power group ride mode ), side internal micro led's ( COB? panels ) added to supplement side illumination and last but not least of all a replaceable battery when or if the battery gets old. Sounds like a good choice for a rear light. One negative though, $90 is a bit steep when considering how good and affordable the competition is. At that price I can have a two Cygolite Hotshot 150's ( once you factor in the cost of a replaceable battery ).


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