# STX-SE ? What was that about?



## floody (May 14, 2004)

What was different to regular STX?
I was just looking at my faithful STX-SE hubs sitting on the desk, which I've now had for 10 years....It got me thinking, most of the stuff in the MC30/31 STX-SE group has CH suffixes on the end, ie FH-MC30CH.
The hub is now my only remnant of the entire group which was on my 1994 Avanti RidgeRider SE . Not that any of it was stuffed, but I broke a BB and wrote off one crankarm, and when I went to Vees the shifters and brakes were replaced with my current STX-RC 7 spd pod. 
I've found there were upgrades, ie a UN51 BB, HG70 chain, HG60-C cassette, but I'm basically mystified as to what justified a different nomenclature ,"CH", and completely separate group from STX???

I also checked it out and found that the Exage 300EX RD-A300 shortcage derailleur ( that I'm STILL using on my Banshee Scream's 7spd setup) is also the same age....Not bad, given how quickly some people seem to munch derailleurs, and pretty awesome given that its had some big hits, and though a shortcage road mech it can handle 11-32 with ease!

I bet we won't be seeing the current mid range groups still hanging together in 2014!!

I'm sorry if this isn't vintage enough!!


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

If I'm not mistaken, the STX-SE was the same as the STX group, but the SE simply designated a different finish - chromium is what S h i m a n o called it, I believe. This would support the CH suffix as well. There was a lot of burly steel in them STX components. They'll last.


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## floody (May 14, 2004)

Ahh true, they are in a kind of shiny "shadow chrome" finish. But I thought all of STX at that stage was that shiny grey/brownish finish?


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

floody said:


> Ahh true, they are in a kind of shiny "shadow chrome" finish. But I thought all of STX at that stage was that shiny grey/brownish finish?


Yep, that's the color for STX-SE (special edition). Normal STX was a different brownish color. I've got some photos of each somewhere and can post if you want, but it'll take several days until I'm back in the states.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

*Crankset- Bad!*



ssmike said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the STX-SE was the same as the STX group, but the SE simply designated a different finish - chromium is what S h i m a n o called it, I believe. This would support the CH suffix as well. There was a lot of burly steel in them STX components. They'll last.


As a wrench, I gotta chime in here and say that Shimano pulled another one over on a bunch of unsuspecting riders with that STX stuff. Especially the '95-'96 STX and STX-SE cranksets where you have the middle chainring supporting the outer chainring. Then that assembly bolts to the granny/crank tab. This makes the crank arms useable only with Shimano's middle chainring, as there are only tabs to mount the granny ring cast into the right arm. Now, it's even worse, as you cannot buy a middle chainring, with the extended tabs to mount to the granny ring. I loked all over for a shimano ring for a customer, to no avail! Maybe someone here knows where you can get a new middle ring for this specific set-up? I've switched the crankset out with a new one( different model), and the ol' STX-SE one is currently residing underneath my bench at work.
Those stamped steel rings also caused much confusion with customers back then. As every bike that went out with them would come back later, customers would ask, "Why are there teeth missing on my chainrings?". Or my favorite-"My cranks are defective! The chainrings are ripped!".


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

yep, the ol' broken tooth story. That was also the component group that ushered in the IG chain and cassette. Now that was a pain. Stickers everywhere "Use IG Chain Only." IG, HG, UG - bring back Sedis Sport or D.I.D chains!


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## floody (May 14, 2004)

Guitar Ted said:


> As a wrench, I gotta chime in here and say that Shimano pulled another one over on a bunch of unsuspecting riders with that STX stuff. Especially the '95-'96 STX and STX-SE cranksets where you have the middle chainring supporting the outer chainring. Then that assembly bolts to the granny/crank tab. This makes the crank arms useable only with Shimano's middle chainring, as there are only tabs to mount the granny ring cast into the right arm. Now, it's even worse, as you cannot buy a middle chainring, with the extended tabs to mount to the granny ring. I loked all over for a shimano ring for a customer, to no avail! Maybe someone here knows where you can get a new middle ring for this specific set-up? I've switched the crankset out with a new one( different model), and the ol' STX-SE one is currently residing underneath my bench at work.


Really? I am certain my 1994 STX-SE arms had normal chainring mounts, in fact I know this, I fitted sugino rings to them!! I'm sure of it, or thought I was?!?
Alivio had that strange setup, that much I know.


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## floody (May 14, 2004)

ssmike said:


> Yep, that's the color for STX-SE (special edition). Normal STX was a different brownish color. I've got some photos of each somewhere and can post if you want, but it'll take several days until I'm back in the states.


Nah thats cool, I've got a rear STX-SE hub sitting right in front of me, its a paperweight on my desk (until it gets built into a wheel for a non-disc bike one day)!!


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

*Alivio- Yeah! That too!*



floody said:


> Really? I am certain my 1994 STX-SE arms had normal chainring mounts, in fact I know this, I fitted sugino rings to them!! I'm sure of it, or thought I was?!?
> Alivio had that strange setup, that much I know.


 Your right! I'd forgotten about those other groups set up like that! I think Acera was also that way for a time. Good ol' trickle down effect! Maybe i"ll get lucky and find something in a middle chain ring from another group? Nah! 
Anyways- sho-nuff got that set-up on the STX-SE cranks down at the shop! They came off a Marin Nail Trail with purple bar ends, stem, etc. Has the full gruppo, down to the cantis. It was a shame that I couldn't get that middle ring to keep it all together!


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## Haroow (Mar 10, 2004)

*Stx Se*

If you look at the who what when where thread...all the componets are STX SE and they look like the ones you describe ---that brownish chrome....Talk about easy to tune.. 2 minutes and it was done... the bike has since left my abode but it had STX Everything---the whole component group, was beautiful. It shifted very crisply, And check out the ???bash guard??? also I counted the teeth on the first two cogs 20, 34, * Damn I wish Shim ano would still make 20....


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Guitar Ted said:


> As a wrench, I gotta chime in here and say that Shimano pulled another one over on a bunch of unsuspecting riders with that STX stuff. Especially the '95-'96 STX and STX-SE cranksets where you have the middle chainring supporting the outer chainring.


Worse yet was the '97 XT crank design. The outter ring (which was a 42 incidently) is riveted to the spider. For all intents are purposes, the outer ring can not be replaced. It's bad enough that you can't replace the ring, but being stuck with a 42 large ring is even worse!!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

laffeaux said:


> Worse yet was the '97 XT crank design. The outter ring (which was a 42 incidently) is riveted to the spider. For all intents are purposes, the outer ring can not be replaced. It's bad enough that you can't replace the ring, but being stuck with a 42 large ring is even worse!!


Who would own such rubbish!!!!


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

two details to mention. 

#1 The stx outer rings were 95mm bolt pattern, not 94mm. So you HAD to buy the shimano outer ring also, to go with the shimano middle ring.

#2 I can still get DID chains new from a local store, at full price unfortunetly.


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## floody (May 14, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Worse yet was the '97 XT crank design. The outter ring (which was a 42 incidently) is riveted to the spider. For all intents are purposes, the outer ring can not be replaced. It's bad enough that you can't replace the ring, but being stuck with a 42 large ring is even worse!!


I had one of those first generation four arm LX cranksets with the same setup...
Sure, having the spider and ring riveted together was a pain, especially for gettinga decent chainline and adjusting my roller guide to fit, but it was even worse when the bigchainring and rivets repeatedly tore themselves out of the spider plate!!
Shimano stated it was impossible (bullsh!t it was) and that I must have bashed it or something (I hadn't, and they were 3-1/2 weeks old). They flat refused to warranty it, and when it came time to stump up the cash for parts, they didn't have any spares of spiders or arms in the country - I had to buy a complete new crankset....
And when the same thing happened again , that impossible event, I went and bought FSA powerpro arms, which apart from having that odd "spider-bolt-behind-crankarm" sugino setup (meaning my blackspire bashring has its crank relief to one side of the arm or the other), were far cheaper and stronger than the LX ones......


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## NoSe (Apr 26, 2005)

Guitar Ted said:


> As a wrench, I gotta chime in here and say that Shimano pulled another one over on a bunch of unsuspecting riders with that STX stuff. Especially the '95-'96 STX and STX-SE cranksets where you have the middle chainring supporting the outer chainring. Then that assembly bolts to the granny/crank tab. This makes the crank arms useable only with Shimano's middle chainring, as there are only tabs to mount the granny ring cast into the right arm. Now, it's even worse, as you cannot buy a middle chainring, with the extended tabs to mount to the granny ring. I loked all over for a shimano ring for a customer, to no avail!....


err...your words kind of spooked me out as I have been thinking about getting new chainrings for my stx-equipped Diamond Back Ascent. I truly hope I misunderstood you and the crankset in this https://www.recumbent.com/stx.jpg picture is not what you are talking about. If I got you right my budget was just busted... The picture is not, however, from my bike but sure looks like it except the color.

And to make it just a bit more complicated and off-topic... What is the usual way of attaching those chainrings? I searched some pictures on google and wasn't quite able to get the point


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

*Good Illustration*



NoSe said:


> err...your words kind of spooked me out as I have been thinking about getting new chainrings for my stx-equipped Diamond Back Ascent. I truly hope I misunderstood you and the crankset in this https://www.recumbent.com/stx.jpg picture is not what you are talking about. If I got you right my budget was just busted... The picture is not, however, from my bike but sure looks like it except the color.
> 
> And to make it just a bit more complicated and off-topic... What is the usual way of attaching those chainrings? I searched some pictures on google and wasn't quite able to get the point


That crankset is just exactly what I was trying to explain. Looking closely at the right arms tabs, you can see a clean "break", or space between the chainrings and the tabs next to the place where the chainring bolts go through the chainrings. The middle and outer rings are held together by these bolts. They do not attach to the crankarm in any way. The middle ring has longer "tabs" that extend further into the center than the attachment point to the outer ring. The backside of the crankset would reveal that these longer tabs are then bolted through the inner chainring and then into the crankarm itself. Very odd, and VERY hard to find replacement middle rings for. STX was also offered in a more "standard" configuration, which has the middle chainring attached in the traditional manner, on tabs on the crankarm. STX-RC is like this. STX Special Edition is the "goofy" set-up, and cannot be interchanged with any other STX cranks, except it's nearly identical 1st year sister. (Approximately '94)


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## NoSe (Apr 26, 2005)

Guitar Ted said:


> STX Special Edition is the "goofy" set-up, and cannot be interchanged with any other STX cranks, except it's nearly identical 1st year sister. (Approximately '94)


Thanks for the information, I quess it's true what they say about knowledge and pain...  I think my crankset is that first year stx, and so I'll be adding some budget crankset to my renewal budget. Anyway, a big thank you for your information, it may have saved me from orderin chainrings that don't fit.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

*Cue angelic choir sounds....*

STX-SE middle chainrings can now be replaced! Found the correct shimano part through QBP, a U.S. distributor, that all LBS' should be able to order from. QBP# is CR-2964, and Shimano's part# is FC-MC34. Hope that helps!


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## NoSe (Apr 26, 2005)

Guitar Ted said:


> STX-SE middle chainrings can now be replaced! Found the correct shimano part through QBP, a U.S. distributor, that all LBS' should be able to order from. QBP# is CR-2964, and Shimano's part# is FC-MC34. Hope that helps!


Thanks. I live in Finland so I just have to cross my fingers.. Sure that shimano part# will help. Thanks a lot for all your help.


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## Boniface The Cat (Jun 5, 2015)

DeeEight said:


> two details to mention.
> 
> #1 The stx outer rings were 95mm bolt pattern, not 94mm. So you HAD to buy the shimano outer ring also, to go with the shimano middle ring.


Helo everybody,

First, I do realize this thread is sort of ...outdated. Secondly, I'm not native English speaker, so from time to time my native language pattern might slip through.

I'm posting my twopence here because I just managed to assemble some STX FE cankset (FE stands for "Frankenstein Edition" ;-) and I'd like to share my experience. Which is, obviously, just a piece of useless trivia, since all them STXes are now pretty much gone. Still, for those interested...

So, the story is... 
My wife's bike is a Marin Muirwoods (Cromoly hardtail), from late '90s (with front suspension fork added).
I bought this bike, second hand, in 2001 or 2002, on a whim and out of curiosity. It was pretty much still in factory setup, and that means STX cranks. (Later, after adding suspension fork I gave it to my wife - and she's still using it.)

We're not teenagers any more (just over 50, to be specific), so we don't push our bikes to the limits (besides, Greater Poland, where we are living, is pretty much a flat place), or ride too often - and that's why our equipment last so long.
And, last but not least, I'm a "wrench" myself (amateur variety), with knack for fiddling with things, inventing all kinds of unorthodox solutions - and on a top of it a bit of a scroodge.
I guess it stems from the fact that I grew up in a communist country, with all them permanent shortages of everything, which forced people to be resourcefull and always repair things instead of just chucking them... but I digress here.

So, that STX crank was bit worn but still working - untill last weekend, when the right pedal came off less than ten minutes into a bike trip. It turned out that the thread was completely stripped. Basically, damaged beyond repair. Shoot...

I could get a new crankset, but that would most likely mean a new BB cartridge as well - which means quite an expense. Being a scroodge I searched first on Allegro (a local eBay equivalent) and found a used STX LE crankset for less than $10. Its middle and small chainring were completely worn (the outer one, alloy, was OK) but I didn't care - I needed the cranks, so I could just swap the chainrings and bolt it onto the bike. (Besides, I have yet another set of chainrings for STX cranks - used ones, but in good condiiton.)

I didn't have much time, anyway, to search for new crankarm w. matching BB cartridge - the bike had to be ready for this Sunday, and Thursday was a public holiday in Poland (Corpus Christi) - and because of it many LBS were closed on Friday as well (it's called "a long weekend" here).

Anyway, the parcel arrived today (Friday) and only when I took that STX LE crankset out and took it apart I realized fully the difference.

Well... Its nearly midnight, tomorrow is Saturday, most LBS are closed or working only short hours... Hmm... Einfach wunderbar, as Germans say... Scratch your head, man, scratch it hard...

To make the long story short:
You can't, indeed, mix the "LE" outer chainring with middle and small "regular" ones (95 vs 94 mm circle line for bolt holes) - but not only that, the "internal diameter" of the outer "reg" chainring (the one made by concave shaped ends of metal tabs with holes for bolts) is just slightly smaller than the one in "LE" outer chainring. In short - "reg" outer chainring won't fit on to the LE crank tabs - you have to grind them a bit (about half mm/ .02" each).

In theory filling a bit of the crank's tabs would be easier - but while the crank is indeed made of aluminum alloy, it is also chromium plated - so you'd most likelly ruin your file the moment you start filling (unless you'd use a diamond file). And if you try to grind it on a bench grinder you'd gum up the grinding stone as soon as the chromiun layer is gone (ditto for the diamond file).
And you won't be able to reach most of the ends of the tabs next to the arm anyway.

After you get it right with the outer ring you'll have to deal with threaded holes in middle "reg" chainring - which has two set of holes: outer, smooth ones (for attaching it to the tabs of reg STX crank, together with outer ring, using nut-and-bolt fastener set), and inner, threaded ones - used to attach the smalest "reg" chainring to middle one.

But in LE crankset the whole chainrings assembly is attached to the crank through the innermost ring of holes, so these holes must be smooth (so the bolts could move freely through them).
To strip the thread a reamer would be ideal - but in practice a regular 8.0 mm/ .315" drill bit would do. And if you grind the outer part of the lips a bit, so the point angle would be much greater, it will go much smoother through the thread - after all, you are going to cut out just a tiny amount of material, less than half of mm/ .02").

Once you get the bit ready and in cordless drill's chuck (and set the drill to "slow"), clamp the chainring in a vise (or place it on a piece of wood and grasp firmly with your hand - with a thick strong glove on), and proceed with the drilling. (Optionally you can attach the chainring to the piece of wood by couple of wood screws.)

After you finish the drilling remove the burr (with bigger diameter drill bit, held in hand - or with dedicated burr removing tool) and you can assembly the whole crankset.

Everything should now fit just nice (well, it did for me). The only difference would be a chainline offset by approx. 1.2 mm/ .047" toward the frame - this is because the flanges on inner holes in middle "reg" chainring (the ones you just stripped the thread off) are 1.8 mm/ .07" high, while on SE middle chainring these flanges are just 0.6 mm/ .024" high - thus the difference. And since the whole chainring set sits on a LE crank on these flanges it gets moved by this tiny amount. Whis is, to me, completely negligible, as the chain on mountain bike virtually never runs in a straight line.

And, perhaps, the whole thing might become just a tiny bit more flexible, since now the chainring set, thanks to these higher flanges, is just slightly above the crank's tabs - so their surfaces don't fully touch each other - but we're talking recreational and leisure riding, not a race or competition, so it's just another hair-splitting (non)issue.

Hope I haven't bored you to death... ;-)

Best,
BtC


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