# Wear A Helmet !!!!



## spclays1 (Sep 15, 2009)

I had a pretty nasty wipeout Tuesday afternoon while crossing a wet, wooden bridge. I still don't have any idea what happened but my head hit the bridge:madman: really hard. I laid there for a minute or two dazed and confused(zepplin). I decided I was still alive and in one piece so I got up to acess the damages. My Giro Atlas II (big Head Helmet) was broken as well as my glasses. My head and knee was bleeding from the impact. I still can't raise my left arm above my head. It was a long, long 2 miles back to my truck. I'd say that helmet saved me from a very serious injury. Today my daughter got her bike out and started to ride, I stopped her instantly and asked "Are you forgetting something?" she stopped and got her helmet. WEAR THOSE HELMETS!!!!!!!!!!! Please.


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## dexetr30 (May 8, 2008)

I took a good flip about two weeks ago...helmetless. The next day I went to the LBS and picked one up. Now I can ride faster and more aggresively and not have to worry so much.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

I remember as a kid, when helmets were "not cool".

Those days are long gone. Anytime I see someone out (usually a new rider) without one, I'll politely give them the helmet tip.


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## AlexDeLarge (Oct 5, 2009)

People's lack of concern for their own safety never ceases to amaze me. In my town the LBS has a rental shop (bikes and helmets) on a well-traveled, busy greenway that runs for miles. Very few people I see on those rentals wear helmets, and if they have kids with them, the kids aren't wearing them, either. To save a few bucks they gamble with permanent brain damage. 
When I was younger (so much younger than today) I hit something in the road and did a complete flip over the bars and landed on my butt...and got up and walked away without a scratch. That was a message.


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## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

Destroyed one a year for the last three years myself. Last two were full faces. Didn't grow up using them, but as you can guess now I don't leave the driveway without one. 

On a side note- Anyone else noticed that the first generation of riders to wear helmets as kids are about 25 now and it's pretty easy to tell who grew up one what side of that line in the first few minutes of a conversation?  

(I kid, I kid)


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## Pedalphile (Aug 6, 2008)

For me wearing a helmet, gloves, and eye protection is akin to wearing my seat belt in the car - if I don't have them on, I don't feel right at all - it's actually a form of discomfort: I'm physically more comfortable, but mentally it's a no-go.

Protect those melons!

-Pete


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm glad that you weren't hurt worse, and thank you for wearing a helmet! People don't get it, even a very skilled and experienced cyclist can have a total wipeout. Riding without a helmet is like driving without a seatbelt. There's no guarantee that you're going to get in a accident, odds are you won't, but if you don there's no going back.


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## biggoofy1 (Aug 24, 2009)

never leave home with out mine


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

dexetr30 said:


> I took a good flip about two weeks ago...helmetless. The next day I went to the LBS and picked one up. Now I can ride faster and more aggresively and not have to worry so much.


Helmets IMHO are mandatory safety gear whilst riding a bike. However, they cannot offer a 100% guarantee you will not sustain serious injury should an accident occur because not every accident is the same. The dynamics of accidents are such that you could still be seriously injured or worse with a helmet on or helmet off.

The idea behind the helmet is to reduce the chances of serious injury or worse in an accident.

As far as riding faster and more aggressively, that is more of a skill issue that wearing a helmet and a helmet should not give the user the idea of riding past their skill level.

Just my 2 cents.


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## BigSharks (Oct 4, 2009)

Plus you can put stickers on them to look extra cool.

At least I think I do...


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## Choirdime (Sep 13, 2009)

I don't wear a helmet, not on what I usually ride anyway. I have a helmet, I just never wear it. But thats my choice, just ride by and laugh at me as im bleeing/convulsing on the trail. I'd do the same for you.


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

I want to ziptie an Obama bobble head on top of my helmet. That would be cool as all get out. It'll be inspirational to come to a huge obstacle in the trail that I might be kinda nervous about doing and just knowing Obama is right above my noggin telling me "Yes you can!" will give me the courage to huck that sum'gun! :thumbsup:


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## AlexDeLarge (Oct 5, 2009)

BigSharks said:


> Plus you can put stickers on them to look extra cool.
> 
> At least I think I do...


Many years ago, I was in a bike shop that sold slip-on helmet covers that looked like delicious, tasty brains. Now that would attract attention! The shop went out of business and I never saw those covers again. Sigh.


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

Choirdime said:


> I don't wear a helmet, not on what I usually ride anyway. I have a helmet, I just never wear it. But thats my choice, just ride by and laugh at me as im bleeing/convulsing on the trail. I'd do the same for you.


I'm going to go ahead and say what has been said in any other helmet thread in the world. And I also realize that you will probably never really agree with me, but here goes.

I find it interesting when you bring up 'personal choice, Don't get me wrong, I am all for personal choice and I really don't care if you want to turn your head into a grease stain on the side of a tree. But its not really a personal choice when your actions negativley affect the people around you. Take me for example, if I was the person to ride up behind you after a tree and your head became very well aquainted, what are my choices? Do I spend my time and effort to try and help you, or do I turn the other way and possibly leave you to die? In all reality I and most people around would never leave another human being to die, so your 'choice' may come to negativley affect everybody else's choices. And I do apologize for rambling on.

Now for my own personal experiences; if I didn't wear a helmet, I can almost guarantee that I would not have a normal functional brain . I have worn and destryoed almost all types of helmets from xc to dh to DOT moto helmets, and 4 concussions later I am still sitting here having a normal(I think) conversation.


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## crashtestdummy (Jun 18, 2005)

I'm always amazed when I see a family out riding and everyone but Dad has a helmet on. I would guess that the children have better reflexes than the dumb Dad, plus they are closer to the ground and have a shorter distance to fall. If you want your kids to wear helmets (or seat belts) set a good example and do it yourself.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

@ crashtestdummy

you lucky SOB, you don't even need a helmet do you?!


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## crashtestdummy (Jun 18, 2005)

highdelll said:


> @ crashtestdummy
> 
> you lucky SOB, you don't even need a helmet do you?!


I'm not allowed to wear one while working, but when I'm on my bike after work, the helmet is always on.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

crashtestdummy said:


> I'm not allowed to wear one while working, but when I'm on my bike after work, the helmet is always on.


ah, I see
they don't want ya damaging all those delicate sensors when not on company time


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## dfrancefort (Sep 25, 2004)

Mountain Bikers that do not where helmets we refer to as "Natural Selection".


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

AlexDeLarge said:


> Many years ago, I was in a bike shop that sold slip-on helmet covers that looked like delicious, tasty brains. Now that would attract attention! The shop went out of business and I never saw those covers again. Sigh.


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## selector (Aug 27, 2009)

MX: use helmet
Snowboard: use helmet
MTB: use helmet
BMX: use helmet

We (my wife and I) have beat helmets into our (4) sons heads (pun intended) and they're great about it.

Years ago, I never rode w/ one. Then I got my first nice MTB and figured I'd better look the part, so I purchased and started wearing one. Well, first day w/ my new helmet and bike and I got my front wheel stuck between asphalt and curb and I went skull furst into the edge of the curb and wasn't able to brace myself AT ALL. My helmet ate it all and I rode away a believer and to this day, my sons and their friends hear that story.


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## spclays1 (Sep 15, 2009)

dfrancefort said:


> Mountain Bikers that do not where helmets we refer to as "Natural Selection".


or Organ Donors..


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## fliernh (Aug 19, 2008)

As defrancefort hinted, natural selection cures non-helmet use. Natural thinning of the herd.


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## elarkin42 (Aug 6, 2008)

Had my first experience where a helmet may have saved serious damage last night. I was cruising down the trail and saw a low hanging branch, ducked kind of low and felt it hit my helmet. I assumed it had just caught one of the vents on the top of the helmet and that the branch had popped back out. Holy crap was I surprised when I got home and looked at the helmet. The branch actually stabbed through the plastic and into the foam on the inside......in two different places. I would hate to think about what could have happened without a helmet.


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## Spankaliscious (Sep 22, 2009)

So many riders are drinking the helmet manufacturer marketing "courage for your head" koolaid. It's amazing how many folks attribute magical life saving properties to helmets because they simply don't understand the efficacy of a cycling helmet.

Sometimes I don't wear a helmet. Sometimes my kids don't wear helmets.

What's the big deal?

p.s. While I have spent a substantial amount of time wearing a helmet in my car, I usually don't wear a helmet when driving, just like I don't wear a helemt in the shower, or when out walking around the hood.


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## Bikesair (Feb 20, 2006)

Spankaliscious said:


> So many riders are drinking the helmet manufacturer marketing "courage for your head" koolaid. It's amazing how many folks attribute magical life saving properties to helmets because they simply don't understand the efficacy of a cycling helmet.
> 
> Sometimes I don't wear a helmet. Sometimes my kids don't wear helmets.
> 
> ...


Not much education huh? Precautionary principle is the concept that having one and not needing one is better than needing one and not having it. Same reason we should stop using greenhouse gasses. Nobody can agree if global warming is our fault (if your a dumass')... but if it is our fault then were screwed. If it isn't, hey...we just wasted a lot of money, that's it.

For instance...your child is riding on the sidewalk and gets hit by (or hits) a car backing out (happened to two of my friends so far). Possible concussion or death. Helmet on=good outcome. Helmet off=worse outcome.


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## Spankaliscious (Sep 22, 2009)

Bikesair said:


> Not much education huh?


Lots of education. Much, much more than you apparently have about the efficacy of helmets and impacts that they are designed to protect against.



Bikesair said:


> For instance...your child is riding on the sidewalk and gets hit by (or hits) a car backing out (happened to two of my friends so far). Possible concussion or death. Helmet on=good outcome. Helmet off=worse outcome.


What do you base your opinion upon?

How exactly do you know that that your friends would have incurred a concussion or would have died if they weren't wearing a a helmet?

Helmets are not designed to mitigate car vs. cyclist collisions. That's according to the folks that manufacture them and the folks who established the testing standards for cycling helmets.

Why do you think think that helmets are designed to offer more protection than the folks who make them an/or certify them do?

Please think before posting. This could get really ugly if you don't pause and think.


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## Graphyfotoz (Jun 28, 2009)

Yeah I have had some bad wipe outs for sure! (At least 6-8)
I always manage to go down palms and chin first.
My chin has been sewn up 3x in my 44yrs.

My worst wreck was when I was about 16 and I had a "pre-BMX" bike

_*Pre-BMX = in 1980-1981 BMX wasn't on the market here yet so I made my own.
Older Schwinn spring action fork from 20in bike with frame and a mini bike rectangle seat.
Was heavy as hell but kewl at the time*._

Was fixing a flat front tire and didn't put the safety tabs back to hold the axle from falling out of drop out.
BIG mistake.......doing about 30mph down threw a corn field road T-ing up doing a wheelie over a irrigation pipe......wheel came off!!
Forks stuck in the ground and I used my chin for a plow for about 10-12 feet. 100yrds down the road my tire came to rest.
Dr had to sew my inner bottom lip back to my gum (I could pull it down half way to my adams apple) 40+ stitches. YES you could see my whole chin bone!! Scared the ---- outta my Mom!! :eekster: 
I shoulda been dead....I was really haulin for a lil 20in bike...shoulda broke my neck and or jaw...plus coulda lost all my teeth on impact.
Never wore or owned a helmet back then! (Mr tough Guy at that time...they were just plain uncool!)

Coupla weeks ago I went to my LBS and picked up a Giro Helmet....I tempted fate in the past many times with no helmet and lived....my old wrinkled ass isn't taking any more chances!  
Good idea to wear some sort of gloves also......woulda saved my palms many times in the past!

As dumb as it might look.....they should have some sort of a plastic protector on the strap for your chin.

*Protect your grey matter! WEAR ONE!!*


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## asheck (Jun 9, 2009)

Before all you guys start to pass laws on having to wear helmets, maybe more thought needs to be put into it. Full body armour would be much better, full face helmet, bubble wrap. The safest thing is to just stay off the bike, where is the line drawn? 

I let my kids ride to school every day, with no helmet, they can ride to the park, and even around the block. Does this make me a bad parent? I don't think so, and could care less if you do. They however can not go offroad without one, nor can they get on their motorcycles without a full face helmet, goggles and boots. There are different circumstances that require different things.

Besides, the most injured part of the head, the face, is totally unprotected. Should full face helmets be mandatory? I'm much more concerned that I will destroy my face, then my brain, in a 10mph crash.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

asheck said:


> Before all you guys start to pass laws on having to wear helmets, maybe more thought needs to be put into it. Full body armour would be much better, full face helmet, bubble wrap. The safest thing is to just stay off the bike, where is the line drawn?
> 
> I let my kids ride to school every day, with no helmet, they can ride to the park, and even around the block. Does this make me a bad parent? I don't think so, and could care less if you do. They however can not go offroad without one, nor can they get on their motorcycles without a full face helmet, goggles and boots. There are different circumstances that require different things.
> 
> Besides, the most injured part of the head, the face, is totally unprotected. Should full face helmets be mandatory? I'm much more concerned that I will destroy my face, then my brain, in a 10mph crash.


I must agree with you on this subject. My son and i ride bike down a paved bike path in my neighborhood without a helmet. I grew up on BMX bikes and never rode with a helmet. I agree that i should of when BMX'ing but people were less worrisome back then.(im 35) Point is, even though i was doing dangerous stuff on bikes & did have my fair share of wrecks i never suffered a head injury. Most of my injuries were either scraped knees, elbows, chin etc. When i was not all skinned up people knew i was either sick or punished. I would not let my son do what i used to without a helmet or even go mountain biking without one. As i have personally felt a few nice whacks on my helmet that im glad were not my head. But as far as riding normally(well what normal people call normal) around my neighborhood and town etc. i dont see the need to unless its a mentally challenged person with no kind of reflexes. And if you are riding normally down a paved bike path that is 4 to 6 feet wide in a straight line and you fall and break your head, my opinion is that maaaaaaybe you should not be on a bike to begin with


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Or....*



Biohazard74 said:


> I must agree with you on this subject. My son and i ride bike down a paved bike path in my neighborhood without a helmet. I grew up on BMX bikes and never rode with a helmet. I agree that i should of when BMX'ing but people were less worrisome back then.(im 35) Point is, even though i was doing dangerous stuff on bikes & did have my fair share of wrecks i never suffered a head injury. Most of my injuries were either scraped knees, elbows, chin etc. When i was not all skinned up people knew i was either sick or punished. I would not let my son do what i used to without a helmet or even go mountain biking without one. As i have personally felt a few nice whacks on my helmet that im glad were not my head. But as far as riding normally(well what normal people call normal) around my neighborhood and town etc. i dont see the need to unless its a mentally challenged person with no kind of reflexes. And if you are riding normally down a paved bike path that is 4 to 6 feet wide in a straight line and you fall and break your head, my opinion is that maaaaaaybe you should not be on a bike to begin with


Maybe the person that dumped their water bottle at the turn on the asphalt trail, making it slick and causing your front wheel to wash out hates you.....

Or.... maybe the Canadian goose sh!t that also causes you to wash out and take a header in to a tree ....

Or.... your kid gets going too fast down a hill and you have to grab them and bail on your bike to prevent them from breaking a bone...

Or..... a dog or cat cuts across your path and you stack it in....

Helmets are designed to protect your melon. The faster you travel, the less protection they offer. The slower you go, the more protection they offer. They will absolutely not prevent anyone from eating from a tube for the rest of their life, 100% of the time. But that doesn't mean that it's a bad idea to wear them, at all times when they ride.

Motorcycle helmets are rated and tested at 30 mph because the faster the travel, the less effective the helmet is. That doesn't mean that people planning a cross country trip shouldn't ride with a helmet to protect themselves.

Sh!t happens. Anyone who says that that haven't fallen or crashed when they're just riding along on a safe, paved trail is either lying or hasn't ridden bikes that much.


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## spclays1 (Sep 15, 2009)

Hey, you do what you want to, but me and mine will be wearing helmets. I was riding a paved trail and made a 90 degree turn onto a wet, wooded bridge. Stuff happens.....wet wood is very slippery, my front tire slipped and down I went.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

> I let my kids ride to school every day, with no helmet, they can ride to the park, and even around the block. Does this make me a bad parent? I don't think so, and could care less if you do. They however can not go offroad without one. There are different circumstances that require different things.


i'd consider riding around a block or down a street just as dangerous to a kid as mountain biking. i was hit pretty good just leisurely riding down a sidewalk when i was ~8 years old when a car came barreling out of an alley. fortunately was okay. crashed hard enough to spiral fracture my femur riding down a sidewalk when my bar got caught in some bushes. you can go over to the forums at roadbikereview and a new thread pops up every day about someone who got hit by a car or doored. i also rode without one for most of my teen years (omg, it was so uncool). but i look back now and think how dumb i was.


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## asheck (Jun 9, 2009)

I don't wear a helmet while walking up stairs, running down the street, or through the yard, yet


> Sh!t happens


 There are things we all do, everyday that has a much higher risk of injury, then riding around at 10- 20mph, which is a relatively slow speed. I grew up on a bmx, as did all my friends, yet can not think of a single head injury, ever. But alot of face injuries, broken arms, legs, dislocated shoulders, ankle injuries. Yet no one suggests full face, with body armour. Which I believe is where some real protection starts.

Walking out your front door, for some, is a bigger risk then me riding a bike around. Throw in driving a car, talking on a cell phone, speeding, heck just being clumsy, it's all about risk factor. Ever drink? Do you wear a helmet?  talk about risk factor.

After saying that, I am a believer of wearing a helmet, where I believe it is necessary. Some people do need to put one on before walking out the front door  I just think that choice needs to be up to me. Whether it's on my MTB or motorcycle.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

> But alot of face injuries, broken arms, legs, dislocated shoulders, ankle injuries. Yet no one suggests full face, with body armour. Which I believe is where some real protection starts.


i consider my shoulders, arms, ankles and even face less valuable than my brain. not to say that if they were sawed off i'd be okay with it. but if i break one getting hit by a car or falling off my bike on a trail, it's a 1-12 month recovery process with a small chance of looking slightly mutated. if i rattle my brain enough, there is no recovery process. i die, or spend the rest of my life staring at the ceiling.



> There are things we all do, everyday that has a much higher risk of injury, then riding around at 10- 20mph, which is a relatively slow speed.


this is true. but it's not a reason to not easily protect the most important part of your body against damage while doing a leisure activity.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*I don't argue with people about helmets*

If they don't want to wear one they can give you arguments about freedom of choice, their quality of riding, and the percentages, none of which really addresses the issue. Unfortunately it really is a matter of luck.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

Ken in KC said:


> Maybe the person that dumped their water bottle at the turn on the asphalt trail, making it slick and causing your front wheel to wash out hates you.....
> 
> Or.... maybe the Canadian goose sh!t that also causes you to wash out and take a header in to a tree ....
> 
> ...


Maybe you should read my post again


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

asheck said:


> I don't wear a helmet while walking up stairs, running down the street, or through the yard, yet There are things we all do, everyday that has a much higher risk of injury, then riding around at 10- 20mph, which is a relatively slow speed. I grew up on a bmx, as did all my friends, yet can not think of a single head injury, ever. But alot of face injuries, broken arms, legs, dislocated shoulders, ankle injuries. Yet no one suggests full face, with body armour. Which I believe is where some real protection starts.
> 
> Walking out your front door, for some, is a bigger risk then me riding a bike around. Throw in driving a car, talking on a cell phone, speeding, heck just being clumsy, it's all about risk factor. Ever drink? Do you wear a helmet?  talk about risk factor.
> 
> After saying that, I am a believer of wearing a helmet, where I believe it is necessary. Some people do need to put one on before walking out the front door  I just think that choice needs to be up to me. Whether it's on my MTB or motorcycle.


Thats what im trying to explain. But i guess this arguement is like beating a dead horse. Some will think & believe one thing while others believe another. Thats why being human is so much fun. Because we are all different. If we were not this world would be a real boring place.


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## krott5333 (Aug 6, 2009)

i wear one 99% of the time... i need to make it 100%. Its those "just taking a quit trip down the block to the dollar store" rides that sometimes I skip it.


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## kojarena (Oct 4, 2009)

its illegal to ride a bike on a public road, sidewalk (footpath here) or public park without a helmet in Australia.

Police can (and do) stop you, so can city rangers, and hand you a ticket for failing to wear one which includes a hefty fine (more than the cost of a helmet).

PLUS its great for avoiding bird strike during magpie season which it is at the moment. I had one take 4 swipes at me today. I was looking forward to seeing him on the home run but got a flat instead and got a ride in the slush bus.

Acquired brain injury is something that wont heal like a broken collar bone or wrist. I wear one ALL the time, so does my kid. No helmet = no ride pal.


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

The following story *probably* wouldn't of happened if the kid was wearing a helmet, the part of his head that hit the pavement was at least a couple of inches above his ear. If a helmet had been worn it *probably* would of taken a lot of the impact and the outcome *mightn't* of been as severe as it was.


> May 20, 2009
> from: 'The Australian' newspaper.
> 
> A COUNTRY doctor has saved the life of a dying 12-year-old boy by using a household drill to bore into his skull after the boy had a bike accident.
> ...


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## asheck (Jun 9, 2009)

So how many stories , just like that , happen where the kid is not on a bike? People trip and fall every day, and get head injuries. The only real way to prevent 100% of the injuries on bikes, is to make bike riding illegal. When I see stuff like this


> its illegal to ride a bike on a public road, sidewalk (footpath here) or public park without a helmet in Australia.


I believe that thats exactly where it is heading. 
Governments and lawmakers need to stay out of it. 
So like I said where do we draw the line? Do we wrap our kids in padding for that backyard game of football? Do we not let our kids play anything? Do we assign a certain risk factor to everyday activities? Then stop kids from doing anything that might hurt them? Do some searching, and find out how many head injuries happen doing everyday things. http://ezinearticles.com/?Running,-Falling-and-Colliding-Concussions-in-Children&id=2390280 I guess kids with brothers or sisters need to wear a helmet a all times.

Once again, I am not trying to advocate not wearing a helmet, just that there are lots more things out there, that I believe are just as dangerous, that you would never consider wearing one for. Yet I believe that within the next few years, people who think they know what's best for me, or my kids, are going to try and make riding one with no helmet illegal. The next step will be taking our bikes all together, or some other right. Please do not let this happen. 
IMO we educate, recommend, then keep our mouths shut, and let people make up there own mind. That's whats freedom is about, choice.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

asheck said:


> So how many stories , just like that , happen where the kid is not on a bike? People trip and fall every day, and get head injuries. The only real way to prevent 100% of the injuries on bikes, is to make bike riding illegal. When I see stuff like this I believe that thats exactly where it is heading.
> Governments and lawmakers need to stay out of it.
> So like I said where do we draw the line? Do we wrap our kids in padding for that backyard game of football? Do we not let our kids play anything? Do we assign a certain risk factor to everyday activities? Then stop kids from doing anything that might hurt them? Do some searching, and find out how many head injuries happen doing everyday things. http://ezinearticles.com/?Running,-Falling-and-Colliding-Concussions-in-Children&id=2390280 I guess kids with brothers or sisters need to wear a helmet a all times.
> 
> ...


Exactly. I mean anything can happen at anytime. If we are gonna have to start getting ready for anything that might happen we might as well walk out the door to work every morning wrapped in bubble wrap and a full face helmet on. Not let our kids play football, soccer or even run track where your speed is up and you can trip. Will they make us wear a helmet to run track as well then? It is just getting a bit ridiculous. But hey, like i said before as well. There will always be 2 trains of thought on this issue and noone will ever be right or wrong.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Wow... Just wow....*



Biohazard74 said:


> Exactly. I mean anything can happen at anytime. If we are gonna have to start getting ready for anything that might happen we might as well walk out the door to work every morning wrapped in bubble wrap and a full face helmet on. Not let our kids play football, soccer or even run track where your speed is up and you can trip. Will they make us wear a helmet to run track as well then? It is just getting a bit ridiculous. But hey, like i said before as well. There will always be 2 trains of thought on this issue and noone will ever be right or wrong.


By this logic, there's no reason to wear glasses or gloves while riding either. After all, at any given time something could fly in to an eye or you could run, trip and fall down on your hands. In fact, let's get rid of all safety equipment because after all, we could be engaging in another activity that may be as inherently risky without that safety equipment.

Kids in seatbelts in cars? Not required. After all, they ride in busses that don't have seatbelts.

Wearing a helmet is a personal choice. Suggesting that not wearing a bike helmet while riding a bike is justified because we engage in other activities that could injure us without helmets is a specious leap.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

Ken in KC said:


> By this logic, there's no reason to wear glasses or gloves while riding either. After all, at any given time something could fly in to an eye or you could run, trip and fall down on your hands. In fact, let's get rid of all safety equipment because after all, we could be engaging in another activity that may be as inherently risky without that safety equipment.
> 
> Kids in seatbelts in cars? Not required. After all, they ride in busses that don't have seatbelts.
> 
> Wearing a helmet is a personal choice. Suggesting that not wearing a bike helmet while riding a bike is justified because we engage in other activities that could injure us without helmets is a specious leap.


If you read my other posts you will know that i said i dont think its necessary to wear a helmet while riding casually around town. But i "DO" believe it should be worn if doing other activities as BMX'ing, or any kind of trail & mountain biking. In other words if me & my son are going down the bike path by my house where there is no danger of falling unless you dont know how to ride a bike to begin with then i would not stress a helmet. If we do anything else then yes. helmet is required no questions about it.


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## asheck (Jun 9, 2009)

> By this logic, there's no reason to wear glasses or gloves while riding either. After all, at any given time something could fly in to an eye or you could run, trip and fall down on your hands. In fact, let's get rid of all safety equipment because after all, we could be engaging in another activity that may be as inherently risky without that safety equipment.
> 
> Kids in seatbelts in cars? Not required. After all, they ride in busses that don't have seatbelts.
> 
> Wearing a helmet is a personal choice. Suggesting that not wearing a bike helmet while riding a bike is justified because we engage in other activities that could injure us without helmets is a specious leap.


 So in your opinion where do we draw the line, between protection, and personal freedom? I will guarantee you that there are more head injuries caused in any school sport then there are in recreational ( not sport) bicycling. Should helmets be required for all sports? 
BTW I never have my kids wear gloves or glasses riding back and forth to school. Is this ok? (rhetorical) I do believe in seatbelts, and always wear one, but am totally against seatbelt laws. There is a much higher chance of incurring a head injury in an auto accident, then there is a bike accident,yet I would never wear a helmet for every day driving. But if I were gonna be on a race track, I sure would.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Okay...*



Biohazard74 said:


> If you read my other posts you will know that i said i dont think its necessary to wear a helmet while riding casually around town. But i "DO" believe it should be worn if doing other activities as BMX'ing, or any kind of trail & mountain biking. In other words if me & my son are going down the bike path by my house where there is no danger of falling unless you dont know how to ride a bike to begin with then i would not stress a helmet. If we do anything else then yes. helmet is required no questions about it.


We'll agree to disagree. I choose to wear a bike helmet when I'm riding a bike. I think it's foolish to not do so. Then again, the worst cycling crash I've ever had occured on a "bike path by my house where there is no danger of falling" and I certainly know how to ride a bike. I feel I'm in more control (and safer) on singletrack where I'm in charge of my riding vs. a public path where dogs, runners, walkers, cyclists etc. are able to take actions that will impact my safety. It's the same reason I feel safer on singletrack than on the road.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Huh?*



asheck said:


> So in your opinion where do we draw the line, between protection, and personal freedom? I will guarantee you that there are more head injuries caused in any school sport then there are in recreational ( not sport) bicycling. Should helmets be required for all sports?
> BTW I never have my kids wear gloves or glasses riding back and forth to school. Is this ok? (rhetorical) I do believe in seatbelts, and always wear one, but am totally against seatbelt laws. There is a much higher chance of incurring a head injury in an auto accident, then there is a bike accident,yet I would never wear a helmet for every day driving. But if I were gonna be on a race track, I sure would.


Where "we" draw the line isn't my problem. I've already given my opinion on where I draw the line.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

Ken in KC said:


> Then again, the worst cycling crash I've ever had occured on a "bike path by my house where there is no danger of falling" and I certainly know how to ride a bike. I feel I'm in more control (and safer) on singletrack where I'm in charge of my riding vs. a public path where dogs, runners, walkers, cyclists etc. are able to take actions that will impact my safety. It's the same reason I feel safer on singletrack than on the road.


Alot of people would then come to the conclusion that you live in a crappy neighborhood in an area with crappy singletrack trails. I know for a fact i would not get caught dead on a single track around here without a helmet. And if your trails are safer than the city paved bike paths then i think the trails in your area are in serious need of some work.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Flawed logic... again....*



Biohazard74 said:


> Alot of people would then come to the conclusion that you live in a crappy neighborhood in an area with crappy singletrack trails. I know for a fact i would not get caught dead on a single track around here without a helmet. And if your trails are safer than the city paved bike paths then i think the trails in your area are in serious need of some work.


You're able to make judgements about the level and types of trails based on my opinion on safety?

Doesn't that contradict your statement about other people dictating to you what constitutes safety?

I've come to the conclusion that you're unable to read for context, so I'll spell it out for you: When I'm riding on singletrack, I and I alone am responsible for my actions. When I'm on public, paved trails, I have less control over my own actions because other people can and do impact my actions.

And since you're either obtuse or acting obtuse, I'll leave it like this: Pick any paved, multiuse trail in any neighborhood and I'd feel safer on any epic trail you can name: Porcupine Rim, A-Line, Moore Fun, et. all because I'm in control of my own actions on the trails.

It's exactly why many MXer's feel safer riding on a track than they do riding in traffic.


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

All this talk about freedom of choice.
I wonder what it'd be like if doctors, paramedics, hospitals, etc. had the freedom of choice too?..............
The choice to not give any treatment to cyclists who've received head injuries which could of been avoided by wearing a helmet.
I wonder if that choice would change some peoples attitudes?
How often does anyone make the choice of when, where or how they have a bike accident?
When you have a bike accident you can't always make the choice of how bad your injuries will be or where they are?
Helmets do save some riders some of the time but they won't save all of the riders all of the time.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

Ken in KC said:


> You're able to make judgements about the level and types of trails based on my opinion on safety?
> 
> Doesn't that contradict your statement about other people dictating to you what constitutes safety?
> 
> ...


Thats funny. I was thinking the same about your posts. But hey, im not going to argue with you. Or judge you. You are right & im right. You are wrong & im wrong. We all have our opinions & beliefs & im not going to change your way of thinking & you are'nt going to change mine, &that is the final point. Some people agree with me & some obviously with you. I think you are wrong & im right. Same goes for you with what i think. Its a subject that would never end. So you just keep doing what you are doing & i will keep on doing what i am doing. Thats why people vote on things. Because of the diversity of ideas. Sometimes in some places people who think like you win & sometimes people who think like me win. Thats why its legal in some places to ride without a helmet and illegal in others. Why? Because we all have "OUR" idea of what is right. I am not being obtuse or trying to act obtuse. I just think differently than you. Either way. Have a great day and dont forget to wear your helmet 

Oh & btw yeah i was messing around when i was talking about the trails in your area. Maybe what they really need in KC is to give out a sense of humor at the bike shops as well.


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## carrot_top (Aug 22, 2007)

I must be one of the most unsafe bastards here then, i only wear my helmet when im riding at the trails...not just because its mandatory there though, but because if i fall on the trails, theres a generous amount of rocks at the bottom of the fall........and i have crashed a lot on the trails and, though i never had to put it in use yet, i was glad to have my helmet on....

however whenever im not on the trails, im always cruising, and feel confident enough in my biking ability to keep me from crashing in that situation....not to mention im overly vigilant with cars, even if im on the sidewalk.....dont forget, where i live is known for having a lot of drivers that pay more attention to their phone than the road, or old people who always get the pedals confused....

Also, a little story i would like to share......My friend, whose parents are anal about wearing helmets while biking, always make sure hes wearing a helmet...and he does...except once when he forgot.....while he was riding around with me and couple of other friends, his father goes out to find him with his motorcycle....he catches up to us, rams into my friend on his bike (doing a good 10mph, and almost knocking him off and running him over), reaches into a saddle bag and picks up my friends helmet and throws it at his face, telling him to "dont ever forget your helmet" in an angry voice, then speeds off on his motorcycle (and btw, he ISNT wearing a helmet...on a motorcycle).....

a bit odd i would say....dont you?


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## asheck (Jun 9, 2009)

> All this talk about freedom of choice.
> I wonder what it'd be like if doctors, paramedics, hospitals, etc. had the freedom of choice too?..............
> The choice to not give any treatment to cyclists who've received head injuries which could of been avoided by wearing a helmet.
> I wonder if that choice would change some peoples attitudes?
> ...


I think your missing the point I'm trying to make. Whether you are riding your bike, running down the street, walking up the stairs, in a car wreck, drunk and fall off your bar stool, playing a sport, or just clumsy , in all of these cases of a head injury , a helmet could help, and all these things are voluntary activities. The fact that some push so hard that a helmet MUST be worn at all times only on the bikes, seems weird. Why just single out the bikes? If you really just care about others well being, why not push a helmet for all activities that had a certain risk level. IMO basketball, rec biking, volleyball , track, anything that was done on a hard surface, carries an equal risk. MTBing, MX, DH, ect is a whole different level.

To the OP, I'm sorry for getting your thread off topic. I do think for most cases wearing a helmet is mandatory, but I also think that it is circumstantial, and would appreciate being able to make that decision on my own, without being looked down upon, or worry about breaking a law, for it.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3860479&postcount=73

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3860497&postcount=74

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3861877&postcount=77

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3862910&postcount=86


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

shwinn8 said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3860479&postcount=73
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3860497&postcount=74
> 
> ...


Anything can happen at anytime. But from the links you posted the only conclusion i can draw from it is that you think we should put helmets on our kids just to go play outside. Thanks for proving my point/points. That really helped


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

carrot_top said:


> I must be one of the most unsafe bastards here then, i only wear my helmet when im riding at the trails...not just because its mandatory there though, but because if i fall on the trails, theres a generous amount of rocks at the bottom of the fall........and i have crashed a lot on the trails and, though i never had to put it in use yet, i was glad to have my helmet on....
> 
> however whenever im not on the trails, im always cruising, and feel confident enough in my biking ability to keep me from crashing in that situation....not to mention im overly vigilant with cars, even if im on the sidewalk.....dont forget, where i live is known for having a lot of drivers that pay more attention to their phone than the road, or old people who always get the pedals confused....
> 
> ...


:eekster: ut:


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

you should wear a helmet when you go out and ride... i hate them, i think they're uncomfortable, they add mass to my head which makes it hard to turn my head quickly.
i REALLY hate full faces when i'm on an MTB... they obstruct perepheral vision..


alas, i wear one after getting a ticket. i've wrecked with it on and the helmet never got a scratch...

i guess when your young and used to falling you kind of develop an instinct to protect your head, cause the one time i hut my head was when i followed the dominos pizza guy too closely on my bike. lol he slammed on the brakes and i smashed into his rear end and ended up in the bed of his truck with my head against his 5th wheel hitch. i had quite the egg on my head


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

i have found that children learn from their parents ( go figure ) " if my dad isn't wearing one, why should i?" " i won't fall down" " i'm only going down the street".... helmets are used like seat belts. it's the minimum amount of safety equipment required by most laws to decrease injury and increase survivability. someone say 5' 6'' tall passes out. that person's head is falling at that distance. it is a fact that persons head will hit the ground and injury can occur. now add in a bike, skateboard, roller blades, snow board.. ect... the increased height distance places the head farther away from the ground and the motion of the activity such as biking increases the fall rate it takes for one's head to hit the ground. by simply wearing a 30$ chunk of styrofoam will increase the out come of not having any head injuries. i don't know, 30$ for styrofoam & plastic which is designed to protect the most importance part of the human body or $10,000+ in brain surgery for the worst case scenario and the life long repercussions their for ...,, gee let me think, $30 vs. $10k?.. i'm not saying put a helmet on your kids when they go out to play but when they are using such sporting equipment like bicycles, skateboards, roller blades which 99% of the time has a label saying " helmet use required " make them put one on. the label it's there to take up space. who says you or your kid isn't going to fall down, that dog over there isn't going to bust out of it's fenced in area and knock you over, that person in that car doesn't see you and is going to back out of the drive way with out looking, you your self might be looking elsewhere other then the road in front of you and hit something, so many factors between point A,B,C. i will preach helmet safety to all and to all those who think it's ''ok'' not to wear a helmet.......... your the ones hurting your children's future putting it in to their minds that is "ok" not to wear one because " daddy never did " . 

" what you do today will eco in your children's minds for eternity and they will pass on their teachings to their own"


next to safety is wearing it properly. i see kids wearing helmets way to high on their heads and exposing their foreheads. parents also need to teach proper wear of safety equipment


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

Like i have said. Its a never ending debate


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

Biohazard74 said:


> Like i have said. Its a never ending debate


only because people are dumb enough not to wear helmets.

in any sort of intelligent & experienced community, its not a debate.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

Biohazard74 said:


> Like i have said. Its a never ending debate


nope, no debate. it's either you value your childrens lives and your own or you don't... < sorry if my wording hurts anyone's feelings


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

LOL yeah you guys are so right ! Wow i have been so blind all this time. Im glad you guys are here to open my eyes. You guys rock ! :thumbsup:


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

*wear padded shorts?*



AlexDeLarge said:


> People's lack of concern for their own safety never ceases to amaze me. In my town the LBS has a rental shop (bikes and helmets) on a well-traveled, busy greenway that runs for miles. Very few people I see on those rentals wear helmets, and if they have kids with them, the kids aren't wearing them, either. To save a few bucks they gamble with permanent brain damage.
> When I was younger (so much younger than today) I hit something in the road and did a complete flip over the bars and landed on my butt...and got up and walked away without a scratch. That was a message.


I use the same helmet for road and mtb,i was a major resister to wearing helmets ,for years.Ten years ago i just started,mostly on roadrides at first,then when i started to check my head three blocks away from my house to check if i was wearing it, i came to the conclusion that i barely notice it , and it couldn't hurt. If kids think helmets are dorky,they may just veg out and play video games so they don't have to wear helmets,bad for business,unless you sell video games.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

nomit said:


> only because people are dumb enough not to wear helmets.
> 
> in any sort of intelligent & experienced community, its not a debate.


I dont wear a helmet when i ride around my neighborhood. So yeah im dumb. I think you are someone that cant ride a bike for wearing one to go to the corner & back. My statement is just as dumb and as ignorant as yours imo. But hey, ride on !! Dont forget to wear your helmet :cornut:


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## asheck (Jun 9, 2009)

> it's either you value your childrens lives and your own or you don't...


 I want you to know, I held my dieing son, while his heart stopped, luckily they were able to revive him, so you have no idea how much I know the value of my childrens lives. I know it way more then you have any idea about. You have shown your clueless one sided, closed minded nature, by this post.Please, Get a clue. Your kid has a better chance of dieing in a car accident from a head injury, then they do from not wearing a helmet on a bike. I guess if you put your kids in the car, you don't care for their warefare. BTW those are totally varifiable #'s, look them up.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

i'm glad your son is ok and i sympathize with you and who ever has been put in the same situation . but to say i'm clueless is rediculous. if i had a child of my own or was driving anyone else's child for that matter i would put their seat belt on to increase their survivability in the event of an accident not to mention it's also the law and if found that the provided safety devise wasn't used insurance companies have the right to deny coverage because no action was taken to provide the minimum amount of safety. to say not putting on helmet on a child is safe is irresponsible. as i posted above. a helmet, much like a seat belt are to increase the survival rate, not prevent death


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

i apologize if my wording upset you


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

I like to think "MY" parents loved me and my brother a great deal. Paying for our college, raising us up right, Buying us anything & everything we wanted even though he had to work late everyday to be able to get us everything we needed and wanted. I believe i got a very expensive BMX bike almost every year for about 6 years. I never went through hard times and i was never missing anything. Yet my parents never made me wear a helmet when i rode around with my friends. I only used it to BMX. I dont think in the 80's & early 90's i ever saw anyone around parks or anywhere wearing helmets. And if you were growing up in this era you would agree. Yet, i dont think i ever met anyone that ever suffered head injuries that caused brain damage or worse. I was always scraped up and bruised from doing crazy stuff on my bike yet never even came close to hurting my head. I always wore a helmet to race or do tricks but thats it.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

http://www.helmets.org/mandator.htm


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## Spankaliscious (Sep 22, 2009)

shwinn8 said:


> nope, no debate. it's either you value your childrens lives and your own or you don't...


It's rare that so much ignorance is captured in so few words.

Congrats!


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

Spankaliscious said:


> It's rare that so much ignorance is captured in so few words.
> 
> Congrats!


yup, i'm ignorant, don't forget to put a helmet on your self or your grand kids :thumbsup:


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

asheck said:


> Why just single out the bikes?


Because this is a bike forum and this thread was originally about bikes and helmets.
Why have we now progressed onto drunks falling off stools etc.
If people who're involved in other activities are concerned about their safety I'm sure they can discuss it on an appropriate forum that revolves around that said activity.

http://www.drunksfallingoffstoolsforum.com
http://www.runningdownthestreetforum.com
http://www.walkingupstairsforum.com


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## Spankaliscious (Sep 22, 2009)

shwinn8 said:


> yup, i'm ignorant


We agree 100%!


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## marzjennings (Jan 3, 2008)

nomit said:


> only because people are dumb enough not to wear helmets.
> 
> in any sort of intelligent & experienced community, its not a debate.


If you think an XC type helmet is going to save your life or save you from brain damage you obviously don't have enough brain power worth saving.

Wear a helmet, understand their limitations, don't believe in fairies.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

Spankaliscious said:


> We agree 100%!


don't forget to put helmets on your little ones old man :thumbsup: they just might thank you for it someday


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

shwinn8 said:


> don't forget to put helmets on your little ones old man :thumbsup:


I told you that this subject would have no right or wrongs :lol: We can sit here for months going back & forth & we would have people that think like i do & the ones that think like you. Ignorant ones on my side and yours & smart and knowledgable people on both sides as well. The laws that are passed all depends on how many people voted that day that either think like you do or i do. Thats why its legal in some places to ride without a helmet and illegal in others. Like i said. No right or wrong. I dont want to push what i believe is right on you but maybe you should not put down others way of thinking. Im done on this subject :lol: I think i proved to you that this would never end


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

Biohazard74 said:


> I told you that this subject would have no right or wrongs :lol: We can sit here for months going back & forth & we would have people that think like i do & the ones that think like you. Ignorant ones on my side and yours & smart and knowledgable people on both sides as well. The laws that are passed all depends on how many people voted that day that either think like you do or i do. Thats why its legal in some places to ride without a helmet and illegal in others. Like i said. No right or wrong. I dont want to push what i believe is right on you but maybe you should not put down others way of thinking. Im done on this subject :lol: I think i proved to you that this would never end


yup, i can't help knowing for a fact that wearing a helmet that is designed to protect ones skull is safer then not wearing one


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## nauc (Sep 9, 2009)

to me, not wearing a helmet is like not wearing a seatbelt = stupid


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

be safe out there!


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## Thor29 (May 12, 2005)

This is really a religious argument. Yes, wearing a helmet is probably safer than not wearing one. But the helmet zealots believe (without proof) that riding a bicycle is so dangerous and helmets are so effective, that riding without one is akin to suicide. It isn't.

And yet somehow, it is okay to risk killing yourself as long as you wear a helmet while doing so because the risk is slightly less. That doesn't make any sense. If the helmet true believers are so concerned about the dangers of cycling, they should stay off bikes altogether. I can point to quite a few cases of bicycle accidents where people died while wearing helmets. Everyone is at risk for injury or death simply by being alive and it is up to you how you choose to mitigate those risks.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

plenty of people have died wearing seat belts also. does that mean not wearing a seat belt is safer then wearing one? again, helmets are designed to decrease potential head injury, not prevent death


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

there are no laws about putting full roll cages in cars or downhill gear for a bike rider. a seat belt which is mandatory to be worn in every state unless the car wasn't produced with one by the factory is the law because it is the minimum amount of safety required by law. as is a helmet it is the minimum amount of safety required by most states for children under the age of 16


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

How many pages will this thread go to? Noone knows. Any guesses?


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

please by all means, show me where i'm contradiction myself? please, prove me wrong that helmets are not designed to protect the skull and saying it's ok for kids to go out on their bikes with out a helmet is safe. i'll go all night... i can't help that i'm passionate about bicycle safety for children and adults. instead of trying to tell me i'm wrong, how about you put more in to the conversation

goingblankagain is a Research analyst , what do you think?


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

Biohazard74 said:


> Im done on this subject


Then why have you posted on it again.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

cobba said:


> Then why have you posted on it again.


Because i felt like it :ihih: I said im done with the subject. Which im not talking about.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

"it's either you value your childrens[sic] lives and your own or you don't..."

and again, i apologize how i wrote that, but beyond those words, i believe my points on safety are right on

i hear a lot of my points in this segment: 




what's like seat belts[2:00]? 




here's an over the top comparison but so true: 




always a good read: http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
after reading the past posts of the personal philosophies from asheck & bio, i feel much more confident about my opinions along with most of the first 25posts, #32,35 a few others and our views being backed by facts... free choice has nothing to do with preserving the quality of life. it is your life and your childrens lives. parents should do want ever it takes to provide them with the tools for safety and security to survive and to pass on to their childrens children. statistics are on the side of those who wear helmets over those who don't. no one can predict what's going happen 1foot down the road/trail or 10miles... the clock is ticking...

post#52 -


> " I will guarantee you that there are more head injuries caused in any school sport then there are in recreational ( not sport) bicycling.'


http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/cpsr_nws40.pdf
i can't read, sure it's from 2004 but what's at the top of the list on page 2?... anyone?...


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## asheck (Jun 9, 2009)

> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/cpsr_nws40.pdf
> i can't read, sure it's from 2004 but what's at the top of the list on page 2?... anyone?...


Unfortunately that gives no sort of break down on what kind of riding they were doing. I have seen many kids at the vert park, with no helmet. Which is imo very risky. Not to mention it is all based on estimates ,Which generally tends to overestimate. If you read the previously posted http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm you will see that there are many different figures used to come to many different results. But you will also see that of deaths caused from head injuries, 98% were from car wrecks. Also only 67% of fatalities on bikes were caused from head injuries, maybe a helmet would have helped half the time. But you are looking at a very small #. To put those numbers in perspective, 43,441 people were killed on US highways in 2005, so cyclists were about 1.8% of the total. 
Under 700 total cyclist killed in 2007, So as I have asked before, if you are much more likely to die in a car crash , from a head injury, why do you not wear a helmet in the car ? Why do you not make your children?


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

> if you are much more likely to die in a car crash , from a head injury, why do you not wear a helmet in the car ? Why do you not make your children?


 then why wear a seat belt? several of us are not comparing wearing a helmet in a car vs. while riding a bike. we are comparing using a seat bet as the minimum form of safety required just like a helmet. it has nothing to do with what type of riding is being performed. if you buckle your kids up which is providing them with safety in the event of an accident which no one can predict much like no one can predict when yourself or a child is going to fall down off a bike , why not put a 20$ helmet on their heads which is designed with the same principals behind the use of a seat belt to increase survivability & as far as a helmet limit skull impact NOT PREVENT DEATH. should i not put a safety device on my head or my kids becasue people are riding with out helmets, would i let my kids jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it? heck no! i'll put a helmet on my kids and i'll be a better parent for doing it. SAFETY ALWAYS COMES FIRST.


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

i have to agree, i have voiced that exact thing,i think it comes down to the law makers themselves being directly effected by their own laws,congressman doesn't want to wear a helmet while driving or being driven in his limo,can imagine that? or maybe imagine some aging chubby congressman coming home to his wife with the freshly done puffy beauty parlour hair-do,and saying,"honey today i voted in a law that's gonna require us to wear helmets in our cars" yeah right.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm pro choice.


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## Thor29 (May 12, 2005)

Schwinn8 seems to be implying that it is tantamount to child abuse to let a kid ride without a helmet. But by the same standard, since he admits that helmets only mitigate the risk and don't eliminate it, shouldn't he keep kids off bikes altogether? After all, they could still get killed. 

Sure, encourage your kids and the rest of us to wear helmets. It's a good idea. But riding without one is not that dangerous. I'm waiting for the helmetless rider version of "Reefer Madness" where people who get on bikes without a helmet have their heads spontaneously explode.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

I always wear a helmet. But, I lost mine recently by leaving it trailside. Went to go find it, so obviously I was riding helmetless. A lady rides by and says "Where's your helmet?"

AAaannoooooyyyyyyiinnggg!!!!!!!!!!!

Mind your own %$#@$(%$^^%$ business BEE-OTCH.


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

I've given up trying to convince people to wear helmets, they just get defensive. I've resigned myself to just waiting till one person in the pack of "rebels" takes a spill and cracks their skull open. After their friends carry him back to the trailhead covered in blood .... THEN they will go buy a helmet for themselves.

Myself, I can tell you helmets have saved me mostly from mild to severe lacerations and a just skull fractures. When you're helmet comes out with a crack in it, it's a good sign that it would have been your skull and at the least ... a big bill at the ER from stitches.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

helmet are designed to crush and absorb the impact force spreading the energy over a larger surface. much like how cars are built today

http://www.bhsi.org/plain.htm


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

in honor of this thread i went for a ride today in my original ,most local wooded area,sans the helmet,just like the good old days.{O)


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## ozz (May 30, 2006)

Last year while I was riding up to the top of a local trail with my helmet strapped to my Camelbak, I passed a helmet nazi on her way down. As she passed me she said "I hope you crack your head open" or something like that - I don't remember her exact words but I know it was something only a holier-than-thou helmet nazi b*tch would say.

Did I mention that I was climbing _up_ the hill? Does anyone crash hard while climbing up at about 8mph? Did I also mention that my helmet was on my Camelbak ready to be worn during my descent? Anyway, to all you helmet nazis - mind your own f***ing business. Let grown adults who you don't even know make their own decisions. Right or wrong when you nag people on the trail you come off like a self-rightous a**hole. Most of the people you bothered will simply wave you off and forget you anyway.


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## LWright (Jan 29, 2006)

Rover Nick said:


> I'm going to go ahead and say what has been said in any other helmet thread in the world. And I also realize that you will probably never really agree with me, but here goes.
> 
> I find it interesting when you bring up 'personal choice, Don't get me wrong, I am all for personal choice and I really don't care if you want to turn your head into a grease stain on the side of a tree. But its not really a personal choice when your actions negativley affect the people around you.


Nice argument, after we get it working with condoms maybe we can do the same with helmets.
Glad I had mine on when I tried to emulate the kids and landed on my head, but ...


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

LWright said:


> Nice argument, after we get it working with condoms maybe we can do the same with helmets.
> Glad I had mine on when I tried to emulate the kids and landed on my head, but ...


dood, didn't you see my post from like 2 days ago?
ut:

**Hijack** - how are the trails faring? any downed trees?


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## asheck (Jun 9, 2009)

Maybe this will help keep it in perspective 


> TYPES OF ACCIDENTAL DEATHS, USA 2005
> (MVA = Motor Vehicle Accident) ACCIDENT PERCENT
> (1) Motor vehicle (MVA) 37.5%
> (2) Poisoning 19.5%
> ...


 From here http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/causes.html#data_usa
I think I'm going to put helmets on my poisons,  that is a shocker to me. 
But as I said, there are much more dangerous things to do then ride a bike.


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