# Front suspension for heavier riders...



## 727 DeV (Dec 27, 2008)

ok so im a total no0b to the mountain bike scene.. well actually.. i used to ride in NY like 10 years ago.. but i never really learned much about the equipment.. and of course now.. i have no idea whats going on.. so i have a question... i weigh about 260 pounds with my gear.. and i ride an entry level iron horse hardtail.. the bike came with a Rock Shox Dart1 on it.. which is completely inadequate.. so i want to upgrade.. but i dont want to put a 600 dollar fork on a 300 dollar bike.. im planning on upgrading my whole rig in the next year or so.. i just want something to get me through for the meantime.. so.. im wondering.. could i pick up a Tora.. or a Recon fork.. and just put a different spring kit in it to suit my weight? also.. should i go with an air fork.. as opposed to oil? i really have no idea where to start.

thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

DeV


----------



## ImaKlyde (Sep 6, 2004)

If you are getting a new bike next year just wait. You can get a rigid fork for now well under $50 and then get that new bike next year. Just a thought.

At 260 you can go coil or air, but air is easy to adjust and get set properly. You are not going to have the issues the super-clydes do with forks. There's a lot of old Marzocchi and RockShox forks floating around on craigslist that would work for you. If you want a real upgrade to "stiff" then consider 20mm through axles. 

Welcome and good luck. Keep the rubber side down.

Brock...


----------



## bigtymerider (Oct 4, 2008)

*just some thoughts*

Here is my thought on it. I am 290lbs and have looked into pretty much all the fork manufacturers. I am a little at a disadvantage since I need a 29er fork. Here is what I found. A spring fork will need a custom spring if your over 190lbs and no fork manufacturer makes one for 260lbs, You have to find it from a outside vender which bumps up the price. If you get oil/air spring you will have a better chance to get it to work right since you can ad pressure and I have been told by some manufacturers they will work fine. Depending on your style of riding you may want a heavier crown put on the fork (they can put a downhill or all mountain crown on a XC fork). After talking to White brothers they can do this for an extra $35(not bad). The down fall is they don't have a lock out. My thought on the lock out is if you want to lock out your fork ride a rigid. It does have IMG or something like that to prevent pedal bobbing. The down side is they are your $600 fork. I would not skimp on a fork when you weigh over 200 lbs thats one part of the bike you don't want to break (kind of like the handle bars or folding a rim). I might look at getting something you can put on your next bike as well. These are just my thoughts, right or wrong, just thoughts.:thumbsup:


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I just went bike shopping with a friend a couple of days ago. We looked at a bike with a Tora on it... Seemed like a nice piece for a coil fork. Look for closeouts at the big bike shops. I built an entire bike like that once and saved a ton of cash. 

I weigh 260 right now and my current bike has a Reba. I'm happy with it.


----------



## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

only certian tora's are coil... i'm picking up one for my 29er and it's an air fork... supposed to be stiffer then the reba due to the materials it's built with... but it's also heavier...


----------



## 727 DeV (Dec 27, 2008)

i just got a Tora 302SL fork on ebay.. its the air coil.. i got it for 125 bucks.. so im gonna try to find a firm or Xfirm spring kit for it.. and see how that works for me.. 

thanks alot for all the help guys.. im sure ill have alot more questions in the coming months


----------



## GarfieldOne (Jun 3, 2008)

Ok, I had to throw in 2 cents. I dont ride very hard trails, some rooty with some light down hill. I read before that if you dont bottom out your suspension from time to time, you have too much for you riding. Well since I am 270lbs and expected the worst I tightened my RockShox 2 as much as it would go. What I noticed was I didn't use much travel.... I loosened it, little better... I have never bottomed it out but I dont live where there is mountains, only trails. This thing is stock and always done me well. What I am saying is ride it well and see how it reacts. You might wanna try a heavier spring kit if its not bottoming out hard or that often, just enough to help out. I only suggest it as your not keeping the bike past a year so just patch up the annoying part and make it enjoyable, and then reqard yourself at the end.


----------



## bigfekk (Dec 8, 2007)

I'm 270 and have a Recon with the stiff spring on my Superlight and it works great.


----------



## Brewtality (Jul 25, 2007)

bigfekk said:


> I'm 270 and have a Recon with the stiff spring on my Superlight and it works great.


No offense man, but I had to laugh at somebody posting in the clyde forum claiming to ride anything labeled Superlight!!


----------



## bigfekk (Dec 8, 2007)

rsquared28 said:


> No offense man, but I had to laugh at somebody posting in the clyde forum claiming to ride anything labeled Superlight!!


And it has close to 1000 miles on it!


----------



## roaringpanda (Jan 22, 2009)

I'm 270lbs and on a C'dale F7 with the RST Gila Pro T8 front fork. It feels kind of dangerous on somewhat steep, rocky downhills (think Las Virgenes in LA). On top of the recommendations for brand and style, is there any issue in going from 100mm of travel to something like 140mm? 

Total newb question: How are front forks sized? Assuming the wheel clearance is sufficient, do all front forks fit on all bikes? I.e. - differing step sizes, headsets, etc?


----------



## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

for fork travel you need to know what the frame was designed around... as you add more travel you slacken out the geometry of the frame which slows it's handling... each 20mm of travel slackens by about 1*... 

for sizing you are looking at one for a 26" bike... which is what most suspension forks are for.

a quick search shows your fork to be VERY entry level (on par with the dart1)... i'm sure you could something better (tora seems to be good for us big guys) for not to much $$$... i'm running a 29er so not the same thing but i got mine for $125 used... but be careful buying used as you're never 100% sure what you're getting


----------



## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

roaringpanda said:


> is there any issue in going from 100mm of travel to something like 140mm?


Not speaking form experience, but rather from what I've read.

The general consensus is to not go more than 20 mm longer than what came on the bike. Besides the geometry change, there is also stress to consider. The headtube area was designed to withstand so much stress. As you increase the length of the fork, the leverage starts to go up as well and thus the stress on the headtube area starts to rise.


----------



## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

I weigh 265lbs and recently built up a hardtail with a RockShox Tora 318 Solo Air (available for $209 from cambria bike outfitters) and the fork works great. Has room to spare (grow ) as far as the air spring is concerned and actually has very good ride quality. You can internally set the travel at from 80mm to 100mm to 130mm. It comes stock at 100mm which would be fine for your bike. It is a disc only fork, so you need to take that into consideration, but you can find some Toras with v-brake bosses if you look around. 

Disclaimer: I can't vouch for the suitability of other Tora models for a clyde though other than the specific model I referenced.


----------



## roaringpanda (Jan 22, 2009)

jeffj said:


> I weigh 265lbs and recently built up a hardtail with a RockShox Tora 318 Solo Air (available for $209 from cambria bike outfitters) and the fork works great. Has room to spare (grow ) as far as the air spring is concerned and actually has very good ride quality. You can internally set the travel at from 80mm to 100mm to 130mm. It comes stock at 100mm which would be fine for your bike. It is a disc only fork, so you need to take that into consideration, but you can find some Toras with v-brake bosses if you look around.
> 
> Disclaimer: I can't vouch for the suitability of other Tora models for a clyde though other than the specific model I referenced.


Funny, that's the exact model fork I was looking at on jensonusa right now. Not for $209, though!

Do you put the disclaimer to cover your bases, or because you know of other models that aren't good for clydes?

Thanks for your input! About the same weight, I think this fork is the way to go... $209 is a reasonable price, too!


----------



## roaringpanda (Jan 22, 2009)

727 DeV said:


> i just got a Tora 302SL fork on ebay.. its the air coil.. i got it for 125 bucks.. so im gonna try to find a firm or Xfirm spring kit for it.. and see how that works for me..
> 
> thanks alot for all the help guys.. im sure ill have alot more questions in the coming months


How's the 302SL fork working out for you? Sorry, I totally threadjacked you...


----------



## ThorAllMyT (Dec 27, 2007)

FYI The RockShox Tora 318 Solo Air is $360.00 at Jensonusa. 

I'm 6'3" and 250 and just put 09 Marzocchi 44 ATA's 100mm - 140mm on and they feel pretty good. The tech dude at marz said you can run up to 205 psi in the fork and make it as stiff as you want. they have a few big guys doing r&d for them on the fork and had success. I'm running 160 psi and they are medium at the top of the stroke and firm mid stroke. I haven't bottomed out yet but I don't do big drops. They cost $449.00. and have a 15mm thru axel. If you can find a old cheap pair of Marz you can do a warrenty upgrade thru Marz for $205.00 thats what I paid for mine. They showed up the next day.


----------



## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

roaringpanda said:


> Funny, that's the exact model fork I was looking at on jensonusa right now. Not for $209, though!
> 
> Do you put the disclaimer to cover your bases, or because you know of other models that aren't good for clydes?
> 
> Thanks for your input! About the same weight, I think this fork is the way to go... $209 is a reasonable price, too!


I seem to remember some reviews for other models not being as consistently good as I have seen regarding the 318 Solo Air, so since I don't have any direct experience with those other model Toras and having seen mixed reviews, I wouldn't be able to recommend for or against other Tora models.

Here's the link that I used to purchase mine:

http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd....X+TORA+318+FORK+SOLO+AIR+SUSPENSION+FORK+2008

I also sprung the extra $15 for the alloy steerer version which about 1/2lb lighter, but otherwise the same.


----------



## roaringpanda (Jan 22, 2009)

So from all the advice, I'm guessing the 318 Solo Air are the way to go. I'm on chainreactioncycles.com and they have the 318 solo air w/ poploc for $200.14 and free shipping to the US for $230+ orders (exchange rate, since it's from the UK). It's listed as 80mm, but the 318 Solo Air is adjustable to 80/100/130mm, so I am assuming there is no separate 80mm version? Also, it says the steerer tube is 195mm. This seems kind of short since most come 8"-10" and require some cutting? Should I be overly concerned at the steerer length? 

If anything, I'll get it at cambria, but I would have to pay tax and shipping, which really kills the "deal" factor in it.

Thanks all!


----------



## roaringpanda (Jan 22, 2009)

Anyone know about the Rockshox Recon XC? They're coming on an Iron Horse Warrior. I'm thinking about just buying a whole new bike. My C'dale F7 isn't cutting it anymore...


----------



## ImaKlyde (Sep 6, 2004)

Risking saying something that will offend someone, somewhere: they suck.

Brock...

PS: due to a lack of damping and strength/durability.


----------



## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

r-panda, there are so many different versions of these forks, it hard to keep track of them all. I don't have experience with all of them and I can only tell you that the 2008 Tora 318 Solo Air I got from Cambria can be changed from 80mmo 100mm to 130mm travel. It comes at 100mm and has a full length steerer tube. I'd double check about the one that comes at 195mm as it's probably a take-off and maybe an OEM and not aftermarket.

As I understand it, the Recon is basically the same as a Tora, but lighter because it has aluminum stanchions. That said, you'll have to match model designations to have the same internals.

Some Rebas are similar to some Recons except that they have two separate air valves so you can put different pressures in the positive and negative air springs whereas with the Toras and Recons, they have a single air valve and it puts the same pressure into both the positive and negative air springs (on the air sprung models).


----------



## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

From my experience Marzochi is the way to go. I am 275 and for me they have been the best set up. I have tried variations of rock shox, manitou, girvin and such and while they worked for awhile the Marzochi keeps taking a beating


----------



## roaringpanda (Jan 22, 2009)

Good to know. I'm guessing the Tora 318 Solo Air is better than the Recon XC, so I'll just go upgrading my parts instead of buying a whole new bike... I was thinking marzocchi, but that'll be for my higher end bike in the future. 

Thanks for all the input!


----------



## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

Here are some big differences between the Tora and Recon models to consider.

On the Tora, the 318/Race have the same Motion Control damper as Rock Shox's higher end forks such as the Reba. This is what makes this fork a winner. It's damper is very good. The 289 and 302 model Tora uses the much less reliable damper also found in the Dart 2 and 3. If you read the reviews of the Tora 302, the complaints time and time again are the damper. Now, the Recon XC also uses the same damper as the 302 Tora...so I would expect the performance and reliability of the Recon XC to be on par with the 302 Tora. To get the same performance of the 318 Tora in a lighter package, you must get the 351/Race Recon.


----------



## bongo_x (Aug 20, 2006)

I have a Reba Team (?) and I'm 240. Works great. I didn't trust the air forks but so far no problems. I've actually hardly ever thought about it, it doesn't seem to ever need adjusting. 

I never went for that advice about how you should always be bottoming out at some point in a ride. I never want to have that much movement on the front end. I don't think I've ever used half the travel on my fork, but I'm not rad, I'm old.

bb


----------



## dontheclysdale (Mar 12, 2008)

My brother has 2001 Marzochi bombers. He's 280lbs and we put 10wt shock oil in them (supposed to use 7.5wt) and the max air (don't remember what that was.) They work well for him and don't bottom out.


----------



## roaringpanda (Jan 22, 2009)

Just went on my first ride with the Rockshox 318 Tora Solo Air. Didn't feel like a total change from the RST Gila T8, but I need to mess with the settings some more. I currently set my rebound really fast. I completely didn't enjoy my ride, but that's mainly due to the rear hubs making an awful rattling noise. I will take care of my hub and change my rebound to slow on the same loop and see how it feels. 

Also, is it normal for the shocks to hiss with air when it compresses? I've never owned air shocks so I'm not sure if I should be concerned.

Thanks!


----------



## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Yes, that shock will make a hissing sound. How big are you and how much air pressure have you put in?

I weigh about 265 plus wear a heavy Camelbak and usually put 160psi in my Tora 318 Solo Air and I think just a few clicks out from full fast on the rebound (set it however you like it best).

I also tend to not use all the travel everytime I ride, but I do want to use the travel I paid for. I usually run about 20% sag and that seems to work well for me.


----------



## selkius (Nov 2, 2006)

what about the MAGURA forks ?


----------



## roaringpanda (Jan 22, 2009)

jeffj said:


> Yes, that shock will make a hissing sound. How big are you and how much air pressure have you put in?
> 
> I weigh about 265 plus wear a heavy Camelbak and usually put 160psi in my Tora 318 Solo Air and I think just a few clicks out from full fast on the rebound (set it however you like it best).
> 
> I also tend to not use all the travel everytime I ride, but I do want to use the travel I paid for. I usually run about 20% sag and that seems to work well for me.


I'm 5'9 260lbs + 3L water + tube/tools. I don't have a shock pump right now, but I asked the shop installing my fork to put 200psi. I'm running a bit over 20% sag as well (21mm sag over 100mm travel). To measure the sag, I set the compression all the way open and balanced my entire weight over the bike.

- Steve


----------



## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Steve, sounds like our riding weight is pretty similar (I use a H.A.W.G. loaded to the gills with crap and 3L of water too). I would suggest that you get a shock pump and try lowering the pressure 10psi at a time until you actually bottom out on a ride and then put it back up 10psi and call it good (unless you bottom out harshly). JMHO.

I prefer this type of shock pump to others I've used:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MOUNTAIN-BIKE-S...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

Just screw the connector on about a 1/2 turn past when you first see it register pressure on the gauge (and make sure it's not losing any pressure), pump it up to where you want it to be (maybe 5psi higher), then give the head a quick spin to relieve pressure and unscrew it all the way off.


----------



## roaringpanda (Jan 22, 2009)

Thanks for the advice! I have a shock pump on the way (UPS has it in Arizona or so). How do I know if I bottomed out? Is it when it feels violent? I have a zip tie around the stanchions, so maybe I keep it on there on my ride and see if it gets to 100mm? 

I'm using an Ergon BD-1 backpack; seems like we're set to be mules for our riding groups =).


----------



## tozovr (Jul 26, 2006)

bongo_x said:


> I have a Reba Team (?) and I'm 240. Works great. I didn't trust the air forks but so far no problems. I've actually hardly ever thought about it, it doesn't seem to ever need adjusting.
> 
> I never went for that advice about how you should always be bottoming out at some point in a ride. I never want to have that much movement on the front end. I don't think I've ever used half the travel on my fork, but I'm not rad, I'm old.
> 
> bb


I've had Fox, Zoke, Manitous, Mavericks and Rock Shox...Since my first Pike I am a Rock Shox fan. Big Fan.

I just wanted to chime in about the Air/Coil choice. For a while I truly enjoyed the Dual air Pike and Dual Air Rebas I have had. The adjustability with the positive and Negative chambers is fantastic. I loved those forks like coffee in the morning. then I got a pike coil. At 230 with gear I immediately swapped out the spring for an Extra Firm (I ride aggressive trails here in Maine) and I was rewarded with such a great ride. To run the Dual Air at the pressures I liked (155 in the positive chamber and 150 in the neg) the initial travel was a little "sticky" almost as though the floodgate was on just a touch...just a byproduct of those seals doing their job. With the coil I was rewarded with supple initial travel and great small bump love.

The point is that if you can get a coil spring rated for your weight, you will be impressed for sure...smooth linear travel. Air is great for some, but I think some folks look at the coil as a downgrade.

My latest fork is a Black Boxed Pike Coil U-turn that I will have buried with me when I die.


----------



## fastcat351c (Nov 4, 2007)

*shortening travel*



donalson said:


> for fork travel you need to know what the frame was designed around... as you add more travel you slacken out the geometry of the frame which slows it's handling... each 20mm of travel slackens by about 1*...


What kind of effects might there be to shortening travel on a certain bike? Like say it originally came 130mm and you wanted to change to 100mm?


----------



## debaucherous (Jul 2, 2004)

*Love mine*



selkius said:


> what about the MAGURA forks ?


Been nothing but happy with mine. Plushest fork I've ever ridden that holds up to my lard @ss. Nuff said.


----------



## Hardtail Rider (Dec 21, 2008)

Can someone tell me the difference of SL Models? They seem to be cheaper then the rest


----------



## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

fastcat351c said:


> What kind of effects might there be to shortening travel on a certain bike? Like say it originally came 130mm and you wanted to change to 100mm?


would lower your bb height (pedal strikes would happen a lot more) and the bike would handle quicker... good or bad thats up to you


----------



## ovrrdrive (Jan 8, 2008)

I have a Dart3 on my bike and even at 270 lbs it seems like it gives a great ride. The sag sets up correctly and I think it only bottomed once in a 3 hour ride. Only adjustment I made to it was about half a turn on the precomp. I was worried if I needed to change springs out of the box but after riding it I think it will keep up with me for a while.


----------



## Paul1977 (Aug 9, 2007)

Im a fan of Marzocchi forks with air preload. I run a dirt jumper 2 on my all mountain hardtail and a 66 on my duallie.


----------

