# Banshee Legend vs. Pivot Phoenix vs. Commencal Supreme DH



## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

I'm trying to decide on a new DH frame to build off for next season, and have it narrowed down to the Banshee Legend MK II, Pivot Phoenix, and Commencal Supreme DH. I've been riding a used '07 Kona Stab for awhile, and looking for something more serious as I plan to enter some races for the first time next summer. I live in the PNW, and am setting a goal to compete in a few of the NW cup DH races in 2011. 

I'm 5'10" 165 and looking for a DH bike with a low center of gravity that is light and nimble on the descent. I'm not much for free riding and prefer to just ride low and fast, rather than jump and huck stuff. Admittedly, I think I need work on my corners most and want a bike that will provide confidence through the berms to help with my improvement.

Banshee Legend and Pivot Phoenix both seem to be ideal frames to build a bike for my riding style, and are currently the tops on my list. They are very comparable in specs and features, and essentially the same price. I've been leaning toward the Legend, but the positive reviews of the Phoenix have me very intrigued. Every review I've read or person I've talked to about the Phoenix says it pedals more efficiently than most AM 6" travel bikes. This sounds cool, but how important is it when I'm really only concerned about gravity riding? I'm also a little leery in purchasing a first run production model, as I'm sure there are bound to be some problems. I really like the fact that Banshee has spent 4 years developing the MK II, and it has me more confident that the bike will not have problems.

The last option I'm considering is the 2010 Commencal Supreme DH, mainly because of the price. The frame would cost about $875 less than the Phoenix or Legend, and comes with the seatpost and chainguide. Not that this bike is any slouch, I know it is an awesome race bike, but I can't seem to find any reviews that are helpful in determining what style of DH riding this frame is best designed for. Of the three, this is probably the only one I'll get a chance to ride since the local dealer has a demo.

I appreciate any comments, and especially any helpful opinions from those who have had the opportunity to ride one of these bikes.

Thanks


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## fixbikeguy (Aug 28, 2008)

I bought the legend and at the price range that these bikes are in we could pretty much get anything. I really like the low BB and slack head angle. I'm pretty sure that the Banshee had the lowest shock mounting out there as well which meant a really low center of gravity and low weight in the frame. 
The rearward travel is a nice bonus on square edged bumps. The titanium pivot hardware is jewelery and the bearing quality is a good as it gets. 
The only thing that I didn't like was the rear Maxle. It is a piece of poo. I replaced it with a normal thread in axle from a Morewood and things are much better.
Hope this helps and that it makes sense. Sorry it fit doesn't, I'm really tired and have some sort of bug right now.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

fixbikeguy said:


> I bought the legend and at the price range that these bikes are in we could pretty much get anything. I really like the low BB and slack head angle. I'm pretty sure that the Banshee had the lowest shock mounting out there as well which meant a really low center of gravity and low weight in the frame.
> The rearward travel is a nice bonus on square edged bumps. The titanium pivot hardware is jewelery and the bearing quality is a good as it gets.
> The only thing that I didn't like was the rear Maxle. It is a piece of poo. I replaced it with a normal thread in axle from a Morewood and things are much better.
> Hope this helps and that it makes sense. Sorry it fit doesn't, I'm really tired and have some sort of bug right now.


Thanks for the input. That seems in line with most everything I've heard about the Legend. One of the reasons I like the Legend so much is the hardware and bearings are built for durability. I'm not so sure about the Phoenix.


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

It would probably be hard to go wrong with either of those bikes. If it were my choice i would have a hard time choosing between the Legend and the Supreme DH. I ride with a group of local guys and 4 of them have commencal's and are in love with them. They are probably some of the fastest riders i have ridden with. One rode an intense 951 this entire season and just switched to the Supreme dh a month or so ago and says he likes the supreme a lot more.

With that said it would be really hard to go wrong with the legend. The guys at banshee have been awesome to deal with. they make quality bikes and sell them at a good price. They have great customer service and rely heavily on rider input when they design bikes. Just check out the banshee forum. you can post a question there and keith (the guy who designs the bikes) answers typically within a day or two. He also posts new bikes he is working on and lets the bike community give their input and changes things to fit what people want. It doesn't get much better than that IMO.

so that is why it would be a hard choice. If money was no issue i would go with the banshee but if you are on a budget i would go with the commencal and spec it a little nicer with the money you saved on the frame.

good luck with your choice and let us know what you decide (and post pics)


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

i picked a legend to have a troublefree ride.

its one of the best tested , models out now, and one of the best riding too.

with that said, the pivot is based on the DW/sunday, no doubt it will ride just as good.

I think the legend wins out on pure durability and easy maintenance.

as for the maxle crap, Banshee is bringing out a new titanium axle to fit instead, im hoping to get mine in feb when they are supposedly done.

im not going to say a bad thing any of the 3 models you listed, they are all solid rides.

with the pivot being the unproven one.

If possible, try to at least get a ride in


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

We have had our Legend built about 2 months now. It rides very well. The bike eats up rough terrain and rails corners. They are coming out with a solid axle for it soon BTW. The MKII is supposed to be more of a plow bike while I have heard the new DHR DW-LINK is a finesse type ride. So the PIVOT should follow the DHR's ride characteristics. The Banshee is killer.


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## COLIN M (Mar 26, 2009)

Banshee Legend!!!


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

Thanks for all the feedback.

While I am keeping my eye on the cost, it will likely be pretty much the same build no matter which frame I choose.

I already have a few of the pieces that are on my Stab now, but were all purchased new over the past few months and only have a few rides on them:

Sram XO shifter 
Sram XO rear deraileur
Avid Code 203mm brakes
Truvativ Hozfeller direct mount stem (may swap this for an answer direct mount stem)
Truvativ Boobar bars (may swap this for an answer pro taper)
Sram lock on Grips
Truvativ Hozfeller Pedals (also considering a pair of blackspire sub4's)

I'll finish off the buld with these major pieces when I get the frame:
Rock Shox Boxxer World Cup Air
Truvativ Descendant Crank
Mavic Deemax Wheelset
Maxxis DHF/DHR UST tires
e.13 LG1+ chain guide (included on the Supreme DH)
Thompson Elite Seatpost (included on the Supreme DH)
Headset will depend on the frame

Assuming I don't swap out any parts that I already own, the Commencal DH Supreme would run me about $4750 and the Legend or Phoenix would be around $5600.


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

one thing i would change in that build.. 

dump the RS WC fork.. get a dorado, new 888 evo TI or a RS R2C2, but you wont be doing yourself a favour getting the WC 

hell get a RS race and put the Avy cart in instead.. thats what i would do if i was getting brand new..


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

DeanH said:


> one thing i would change in that build..
> 
> dump the RS WC fork.. get a dorado, new 888 evo TI or a RS R2C2, but you wont be doing yourself a favour getting the WC
> 
> hell get a RS race and put the Avy cart in instead.. thats what i would do if i was getting brand new..


Im curious why you suggest this, more important what ride characteristics (in your experience) make these other forks better than the WC.

I personally loved my boxxer wc and many of the people i ride with have been pounding them all year. They are hard to beat IMO but I am curious as to why you think these others are so much better


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## fixbikeguy (Aug 28, 2008)

I have not had one single problem with my 2010 Boxxer WC. I've got about 40 park days on it and a couple of weeks of riding the shore on it. The key to any high performance suspension is maintenance. I tear it down and do routine oil changes whenever I get the chance. It gives me a good excuse to have a few beers and go over my bike as well. It's easy to do yourself.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

I don't have experience with any of those forks, and although I'm sure there are a million other threads discussing fork options I do appreciate the opinions.

I had an '08 888 Bomber on my Stab, which was nice, but heavy. Right now I'm riding an '09 Boxxer Race which performs well, but the bushings wore quickly.

When considering my fork options I opted for the RS WC, as it was the lightest top of the line fork I found. Option 2 was going to be the '11 Fox 40 RC2-FIT. I can save %15 off retail on these fork since my LBS has them in stock, but they currently do not have the Dorado. Maybe they will have it by the time I'm ready to build the bike.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

Been messing around a bit with builds and figured out I could complete the Commencal Supreme DH with all new parts, including a Fox 40, Deemax wheels, and the complete Saint group for right about $5400. 

Not bad, if i go that route.


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## eabos (Jun 11, 2005)

charvey9 said:


> I
> 
> I had an '08 888 Bomber on my Stab, which was nice, but heavy. Right now I'm riding an '09 Boxxer Race which performs well, but the bushings wore quickly.


For whatever it's worth the new 888 (2010, 11) is better than the any of the older models by leaps and bounds, and MUCH MUCH lighter as well, especially the ti version.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

eabos said:


> For whatever it's worth the new 888 (2010, 11) is better than the any of the older models by leaps and bounds, and MUCH MUCH lighter as well, especially the ti version.


I realize we're dealing with minimal weight differences, but here is the info I've gathered on the top dual crown forks taken from the manufactures websites.

RockShox WC (5.98lbs)

Manitou Dorado Pro (6.55lbs)

Fox 40 (6.8lbs)

Marzocchi 888 TI (6.6lbs without axle) (A few online stores have it listed at 7lbs with axle)


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## ryan_daugherty (Oct 8, 2006)

I've never thrown a leg over the Pivot but i've ridden a legend for a season. Its an awesome bike. What really stands out for me is how well it turns... the CoG is so low on it.


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## norbar (Jun 5, 2007)

I owned a legend for a season. Im 5 10 and 160 lbs and I love my medium Legend. Its insanely confidence inspiring. The suspension is really great. Great traction and amazing performance over the rough. It pedals very well and braking performance is quite well ( a little stiffening but thats a good thing if you dont want your fork to dive like hell). 
The geo itself is amazing. Its makes you want to go faster and faster. I cought myself in some rought sections of maribor thinking - why the hell am I going so slow while in reality I didnt touch the brakes. It will make you want to go much faster. Though I have to say with head angle that slack on tighter park tracks it requires a bit more effort to do a sharp turn.


Last great thing is durability. Im a hack and I crash more than I ride. I got 1 tiny dent in my frame and mostly scars as in contrast to many other frames it will sooner scar than get dented (not deep enough to compromise the frames strength). Its the first bike since the days of my old 55lbs tank that I dont worry about. I know it wont get hurt even though it weights sub 37lbs on a full on dh build (saint brakes, 823s, 2.5 tubeless dh tires).


Buy it and you wont regret it. Mine cools down the hype for any new bike in no time. I get excited but almost immediatly I get to a point where Id rather spend my cash riding my bike or upgrading it with better components. I love my Legend and Im pretty sure you will love yours (and if you wont buy it, it would be a crime comparable to throwing christina hendrix out of your bed  )


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

Why stress, buy all three


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## thad (Feb 25, 2004)

My choice would be the Legend.

The commencal is a sick riding bike, but they are not known for their durability. Google "commencrack" or "crackencal". Complicating this, is that they are a euro company, so warranty issues are delayed. You are not a hucker, so it may not be an issue, but it would concern me. It's also a fairly heavy frame. It is also one of the louder frames out, as there is hardly any clearance on the swingarm and the chain slaps around alot. I feel faster on a quiet bike.

I have never seen a Pivot at the races.



charvey9 said:


> I'll finish off the buld with these major pieces when I get the frame:
> Rock Shox Boxxer World Cup Air
> Truvativ Descendant Crank
> Mavic Deemax Wheelset
> ...


Can't go wrong with a Boxxer or a 40. 95% of racers are on these forks for a reason.

Cranks, my first choice would be Saints. Then Atlas FR. Descendents would be more the budget/oem choice.

Deemax wheels are nice, but they are pricey at $1000. A hope pro II/ mavic 721 wheelset is lighter, and saves you $500. They also use all commonly available rims and spokes, instead of the oddball straight pull spokes and 28h rim the Deemax uses.

Tires: The Maxxis UST tires have thin sidewalls at the bead that tear easily, especially when combined with the super hard Mavic rims. Search "mavic maxxis ust problems". Most people run the 2ply DH casings, even if they are running tubeless. They seat up fine with a tiny bit of sealant. But on that note, the majority of racers run inner tubes, because it makes it so much easier to swap out fresh tires for race day and for different conditions. I personally would save the money you would spend on Deemax's, and buy 3 sets of tires, 1 training minion 3Cs, 1 set of race day only 3Cs, and 1 set of Wet Screams, spend the rest on whistler trips.

Another good way to go would be to get a set of $320 Azonics or Transition wheels for beater training wheels, and build a set of super light race wheels, Hope Pro 2s on Stan's flow rims or Spank subrosas. Both wheelsets together would be cheaper than the Deemax's alone, and the race wheels would be way lighter. That way you wouldn't have to mess around with swapping tires on race day.

LG1 is a good guide, but have definitely seen a bunch of them cracked. They also put all of the impact onto your iscg tabs on the frame. Fuxored frame is way more expensive to replace than cranks. The SRS is only a few grams heavier and is more durable. If you are smooth and light on the bike, the LG1 is a great choice.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

thad said:


> My choice would be the Legend.
> 
> The commencal is a sick riding bike, but they are not known for their durability. Google "commencrack" or "crackencal". Complicating this, is that they are a euro company, so warranty issues are delayed. You are not a hucker, so it may not be an issue, but it would concern me. It's also a fairly heavy frame. It is also one of the louder frames out, as there is hardly any clearance on the swingarm and the chain slaps around alot. I feel faster on a quiet bike.
> 
> ...


Very cool info. Thanks so much for the detail, it will give me some things to think about.

The Legend seems to be the popular choice, and is the bike I'm leaning toward.

_If_ i did go with the Commencal, it would be the new 2011 frame, as my local dealer will have a few in stock by March. However, just like the Phoenix, I'm a bit skeptical regarding 1st run production models since there are bound to be some problems.


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## kenbentit (Jan 2, 2003)

I know there is always an unknown factor with a new bike but if makes you feel any better, the Lex/Pivot team riders used the same 2 bikes for the entire race season (they each received a 3rd frame for Worlds so they could do the cool paint jobs). All the frames are still going strong, nothing broke other than der. hangers. and some body parts


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## NS-NV (Aug 15, 2006)

I run a '10 Supreme DH, and have lots of time at Whistler on my brother's Legend. Both are definitely not plow bikes. I like a nimble, active bike. Both fit the bill. 

As far as the Commencal cracking issues, the 09's had major failure rates. This was been rectified for '10. The Comm race team (includes Rampage rider & big hucker Alex Pro), had no cracks or failures on the '10 product. 

My only concern with the Comm is if I do ever have to deal with an issue it may be a PITA.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I suggest you purchase one of each and ride one per event. Get a SC V10 Carbon while you are at it.


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## norbar (Jun 5, 2007)

NS-NV said:


> I run a '10 Supreme DH, and have lots of time at Whistler on my brother's Legend. Both are definitely not plow bikes. I like a nimble, active bike. Both fit the bill.
> 
> As far as the Commencal cracking issues, the 09's had major failure rates. This was been rectified for '10. The Comm race team (includes Rampage rider & big hucker Alex Pro), had no cracks or failures on the '10 product.
> 
> My only concern with the Comm is if I do ever have to deal with an issue it may be a PITA.


The Commy is a great bike. It was on my shortlist for 2010 but the frame is a big heavy-ish. Is it at least a bit lighter from that 4.5kg without(!!!) shock for 09?


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

Very good info so far. 

I am definitely leaning toward the Banshee Legend MKII.

I hate to throw another one in the mix, but any thoughts on the Turner DHR? In my opinion, it is the best looking DH bike out there.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

Just a heads up: Like all things, there is a lot of hype for every "new" bike out there. Take a look at the session 88. One of the hottest and most sought after bikes when it came out. Still ride really really well, but no longer the newest and shinest. 

The banshee is in vogue right now. They made a great bike, rides really well, and did a great job marketing it. very popular at the moment. 

The DHR had a delayed release and nobody really got much time at the resorts on them because they released them towards the end of the season and had to recall most of the early releases because of faulty ht junction gussets. The current revised version should be perfect, but they're just coming out right now. Not a lot of people riding them or giving feedback on them. You wont hear a lot of reviews on them or people talking about how amazing they are, because very few people have significant ride time on them. 

The pivot is the same deal. They just released their first DH bike (ever, as far as I know) and so there isn't a lot of information on how it rides. From what I gather from dw talking about it, its basically a revised version of the Sunday. Newer geometry, and more progressive. The Sunday was one of the most popular DH bikes ever for a damn good reason. Its still a fycking nice bike even by todays standards. If the pivot phoenix lives up to this, it should be one of the nicest bikes on the market. But again, same deal as turner. Aside from a few people related to the company, not many people have been riding them - I think there official release date is jan 2011. You wont hear tons of people talking about how amazing they are. 

I'm not saying your decision to get a legend is a bad one. By most accounts its a really really good bike, and I honestly think you can't go wrong with it. But if you compare it to a dw dhr and a pivot phoenix, you're going to hear a lot of clamoring for the banshee and crickets for the others, even if the others are really really nice. 

I would say buy one of them, be happy with it, no buyers remorse, ride the piss out of it, and have a great time! 

Will


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## GearTech (Mar 3, 2009)

As a Banshee Legend owner (and a Banshee sales rep now actually) I have to say that you could absolutely not go wrong with any of the bikes that you've listed. You've chosen what will undoubtedly be three of the top five performing DH bikes in 2011.

The Legend is everything I want my DH bike to be but might not be exactly what someone else is looking for. It is plush without feeling dead, jumps well enough and corners like a F1 race car (IMO of course). I've heard that the DHR is more lively and progressive feeling. Is that better? I don't know, it might be for you. Hell it might even be for me. Who really knows about the Pivot but I'm confident it'll be great.

I would actually say that with the release of the 2011 Demo, DHR, M9, and Phoenix the hype over the Legend is subsiding. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me though. The Bottlerocket was supposed to be the most amazing thing to ever happen to gravity riding. While I enjoyed both of the Bottlerockets that I've owned over the past 4 years it was a love/hate relationship. Loved it on the flowy jump trails and hated it as soon as things got even a little bumpy. I'm very happy that once the initial hype for the Legend has completely worn off I'll still be left with an amazing bike.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

GearTech said:


> As a Banshee Legend owner (and a Banshee sales rep now actually) I have to say that you could absolutely not go wrong with any of the bikes that you've listed. You've chosen what will undoubtedly be three of the top five performing DH bikes in 2011.
> 
> The Legend is everything I want my DH bike to be but might not be exactly what someone else is looking for. It is plush without feeling dead, jumps well enough and corners like a F1 race car (IMO of course). I've heard that the DHR is more lively and progressive feeling. Is that better? I don't know, it might be for you. Hell it might even be for me. Who really knows about the Pivot but I'm confident it'll be great.
> 
> I would actually say that with the release of the 2011 Demo, DHR, M9, and Phoenix the hype over the Legend is subsiding. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me though. The Bottlerocket was supposed to be the most amazing thing to ever happen to gravity riding. While I enjoyed both of the Bottlerockets that I've owned over the past 4 years it was a love/hate relationship. Loved it on the flowy jump trails and hated it as soon as things got even a little bumpy. I'm very happy that once the initial hype for the Legend has completely worn off I'll still be left with an amazing bike.


well said. Pretty much incredibly spot on. I'm in the same boat with my session, the only reason I'd ever get rid of it is if I was getting out of DH riding, and as long as I'm riding DH and can afford it, I'll be on one. I really like it, but the hype is gone. Likewise, the legend and revolt are "last years awesome bikes" - still ride awesome as ever, but people are oggling the pivot, the m9, the v10 carbon, and the DHR.

Basically, what you should take away from this is, the bikes that everybody is lusting over are all good bikes, and will be top of the line good bikes for years even after they've lost some of their initial luster.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

Cool stuff. 

I really appreciate the thoughts, and I know there is no right or wrong answer to this question. In my opinion, I don't think I can go wrong with any of the bikes on my list.

As mentioned, information on the new 2011 production bikes is limited, and I'm scrounging web for reviews and opinions to help with the decision. I just want to be as informed as possible when I make my final purchase in March, as I plan for this bike to last me the next two or three years.


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## Hellav8ted (Aug 26, 2009)

Spending $5400 won't make you corner faster.
This guy goes pretty fast on his Kona.




MHO: upgrade your brakes (and use them less), tweek your suspension, then try a bunch of different tires, try tubeless, and spend $5400 on trips to whistler and/or the Alps.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

Hellav8ted said:


> Spending $5400 won't make you corner faster.
> This guy goes pretty fast on his Kona.
> 
> 
> ...


I understand an expensive bike won't immediately make me a better rider, and that is not at all what I'm suggesting in this thread. It is just time for me to buy a new ride.

My Stab is going on its fourth season, and getting tired. It was raced by the previous owner for two seasons before I owned it, and although I stay up on the maintenence the previous owner did not and things have just worn out over time.

I have recenlty put some money in it to get me through until next season including new 2011 Avid Code brakes, new Descendent crank, and new Sram XO shifter/deraileur, but to keep it much longer I would need to tear it apart and service all the pivots and replace the bearings. On top of that, the bushings in my '09 Boxxer Race are shot and the rear shock needs an overhaul if I'm going to continue to ride it and make any attempt to race it. I am going to give the Stab to my younger brother, who can afford to fix it up a little, but can not afford a new bike. My money will be spent on a new bike.

I do appreciate good riding tips, but I am past the point in my skill level where the only advice I need is to "use the brakes less".

Although I am sure Whistler is an awesome experience (and I do vow to make it there one day), the reality is I work 60-70 hours per week and only have three weeks vacation for next year. One week for my wife and I, one week to go back to Michigan and visit the rest of my family, and one week for myself. I had considered a week long guided trip from Big Mountain Adventures or just a drive up to Whistler, but my goal for next year is to compete in some races. I'm splitting up "my" week of vacation attend at least three of the races up here in the PNW.

Bottom line is that I worked my ass off this year, and my reward is a bonus coming in February that will allow me to build just about any bike I want. Removing cost from the equation, everyone has a list of potential bikes they would like to build. These are mine, and I just want to get as much information as possible before I make the purchase.

Thanks


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

sounds like you got it all figured out. tons of good bikes out these days.

since you are still researching i'll throw another bike into the mix that will confuse you even more.

Check out the Canfield Jedi. If i had to choose between all the latest DH bikes i think I would be stuck between the Legend and the Jedi. Both sick bikes and both have awesome customer service.


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## Hellav8ted (Aug 26, 2009)

I apologize if I came across as patronizing. 
Money not an object= Knolly Podium
Made in the PNW/BC

Like 'look further down the trail,' 'use brakes less' is advice none of us outgrow.


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## ryan_daugherty (Oct 8, 2006)

sounds like a Legend is up your ally. 

you won't be disappointed in it and it officially comes in a raw/polish now.


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## Pslide (Jul 3, 2006)

William42 said:


> The banshee is in vogue right now. They made a great bike, rides really well, and did a great job marketing it. very popular at the moment.


You mean a great job _not_ marketing it...

In fact, the only hype I'm aware of is from people who own a Legend. :thumbsup:


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## PeterLucas (Dec 6, 2005)

i love my legend


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

PeterLucas said:


> i love my legend


From Marin riding the Legend. How is Tam looking these days. BTW we are liking our test Legend as well.


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## PeterLucas (Dec 6, 2005)

ianjenn said:


> From Marin riding the Legend. How is Tam looking these days. BTW we are liking our test Legend as well.


i dont understand what your asking?


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

PeterLucas said:


> i dont understand what your asking?


Wheeler, ZigZag, Temulpa etc. Not the shop the mountain. That was from the other day.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

Pslide - they marketed it. The way they generated hype for it was by giving them to some of the more outspoken fast guys for a "bro deal" so that they could rely on word of mouth. I'm not saying that marketing is bad - you have to sell a bike somehow, and if you make the worlds greatest bike but don't tell anybody about it, it's not going to be that awesome. I wholly approve of good solid marketing like banshee. Having good marketing doesn't make them have less of an awesome bike. Marketing isn't evil. 

One more thing to add: I'm a complete bike whore and love new bikes and playing with different types of bikes, and if you're going to, I think any of the bikes would be great. Get the legend - its been out awhile, people love it, and its going to be reliable and well supported.

But that stab is a solid frame. Set up correctly they rip and shred like nothing, super good at sucking up bumps, and great geometry, and fuggin rip on the jumps, Is there anything in particular you're not happy with?


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## ryan_daugherty (Oct 8, 2006)

Heres mine:









It was awesome riding it here w/ my family









at Blackrock

















Some clips





Legend Clips - More Mountain Bike Videos


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## PeterLucas (Dec 6, 2005)

the trails are perfect as always.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

ryan_daugherty said:


> Heres mine:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice. SG is my favorite trail!


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

William42 said:


> But that stab is a solid frame. Set up correctly they rip and shred like nothing, super good at sucking up bumps, and great geometry, and fuggin rip on the jumps, Is there anything in particular you're not happy with?


I went into detail a few posts above, but basically going into its fourth season my Stab is getting worn out. Despite some new parts I put on to get me by, it needs some work. I'm going to give it to my brother and spend my cash on a new bike.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

charvey9 said:


> Although I am sure Whistler is an awesome experience (and I do vow to make it there one day), *the reality is I work 60-70 hours per week* and *only have three weeks vacation for next year*. One week for my wife and I, one week to go back to Michigan and visit the rest of my family, and one week for myself. I had considered a week long guided trip from Big Mountain Adventures or just a drive up to Whistler, but my goal for next year is to compete in some races. I'm splitting up "my" week of vacation attend at least three of the races up here in the PNW.
> 
> Thanks


Seriously man, forget the new bike and work less. Sixty to seventy hours of work a week is pretty over the top, even if it's a future employment investment.

Sounds like an unfortunate existence.


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## fixbikeguy (Aug 28, 2008)

dowst said:


> Seriously man, forget the new bike and work less. Sixty to seventy hours of work a week is pretty over the top, even if it's a future employment investment.
> 
> Sounds like an unfortunate existence.


I totally agree. 40 hrs a week maximum! When exactly are you supposed to find time to ride your super nice bike if you're working so much?


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

fixbikeguy said:


> I totally agree. 40 hrs a week maximum! When exactly are you supposed to find time to ride your super nice bike if you're working so much?


Its not a perfect work-life balance, but I'm good at what I do and am well compensated.:thumbsup:

I'm in operations management, so it is not back breaking work, just fast paced/high responsibility. 60-70 hours per week is just an average, I don't punch a time clock and make my own hours for the most part. When things are slow and going well, its a 50 hour per week job. During the busy times or when things go to hell, its 70+.

I'm just coming off my 9th day in a row. At work 10+ hours per day, on call the rest of the time due to other managers vacations over the holiday. It can be rough, but it is a good job and very stable.


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

Hah, I should have invited you to our group outing this past weekend. In the group of 30+ riders, we had: Intense M9, Banshee Legend, Pivot Phoenix, Turner DWL DHR, Commencal, Session 88, Canfield Jedi, '11 Spec Demo, new Foes DH bike, among other bikes.


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## fixbikeguy (Aug 28, 2008)

Cable0guy said:


> Hah, I should have invited you to our group outing this past weekend. In the group of 30+ riders, we had: Intense M9, Banshee Legend, Pivot Phoenix, Turner DWL DHR, Commencal, Session 88, Canfield Jedi, '11 Spec Demo, new Foes DH bike, among other bikes.


Wow! Your friends are richer than mine that's for sure. I hardly see that many nice DH bikes in a full weekend at my local resorts.


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## kenbentit (Jan 2, 2003)

Must've been riding with Evil-io


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

fixbikeguy said:


> Wow! Your friends are richer than mine that's for sure. I hardly see that many nice DH bikes in a full weekend at my local resorts.


Very unusual. Had some people visiting from Canada with new bikes. Had a couple of guys testing new Foes bikes. One guy just got his DWL DHR back after getting the new front triangle. A couple of guys just got their new Demos delivered. Most of the other trails were closed/damaged from the rain--so big group too. Yeah, never seen this many newer model/brand new bikes in one outing.


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## MartinS (Jan 31, 2004)

Pretty interesting group. I actually visited Pivot in Pheonix in November, they still had none of the production versions of the DH bike in from Taiwan yet - did see a stack of proto's that they had built there though. They looked pretty nice though. Was you buddy on a proto?
Fixbikeguy - you should have come out for the Dirt Diggler last year, there were a few cool rides including a 2011 DHR, guess you were recouping from knee surgery...

Oh, and in regards to the OP, the Legend is pretty sweet, it will make you faster than you were on the Stab as it is way lighter and corners amazingly - plus the newer school geometry make a big difference in handling at speed, and yes I've ridden a 2006 Stab....


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## azonicrider188a (Mar 18, 2006)

i think you should get an igloo shave it down to a bike and ride that. mabye you can out run the eskimo and his polar bear before they huck on your face


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## fixbikeguy (Aug 28, 2008)

I wish I could've been at Dirt Diggler for sure. My knee is all good now.


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

MartinS said:


> Pretty interesting group. I actually visited Pivot in Pheonix in November, they still had none of the production versions of the DH bike in from Taiwan yet - did see a stack of proto's that they had built there though. They looked pretty nice though. Was you buddy on a proto?


She was vising from Canada. Production model. She mentioned her friend is a distributor up there for Phoenix. So she got the bike through connections. Brand new. Felt beefy. Something like 39lb for small frame with Deemax Lite wheelset.


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## MartinS (Jan 31, 2004)

Cable0guy said:


> She was vising from Canada. Production model. She mentioned her friend is a distributor up there for Phoenix. So she got the bike through connections. Brand new. Felt beefy. Something like 39lb for small frame with Deemax Lite wheelset.


Interesting, a buddy of mine is a rep for Pivot and Turner (same distributor up here) but haven't talked to him in months. The Pheonix's looked pretty robust at Pivot, sounds like their first DH bike will err on the side of durability - not a bad way to start.


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## Michael Hardy (May 5, 2010)

what kind of pedals are those?? they look dank


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## Michael Hardy (May 5, 2010)

what kind of pedals are those? they look dank!


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

The list was quickly narrowed to the Legend and the DHR, and after long deliberation I have decided to go with the 2011 Turner DHR.

Most things seeming equal between the bikes, in the end it was the raving about the Turner warranty and customer service that ultimately persuaded my choice. Purchasing a frame hand made in the USA was also a plus.

I will be putting down a deposit on the frame next week, and have already started buying a few of the components for my build. The rest will get ordered the first week of February once my 2010 bonus gets deposited. Originally I was going to rob some of the better components off my current ride, but in the end decided to go all in on something brand new and special for me.

Here is my final list of goodies for the build.

Frame: 2011 Turner DHR (ano green 1st choice, ano black 2nd choice)
Shock: Fox RC4
Fork: 2011 Fox 40 (white)
Handlebar: Answer Pro Taper DH (white)
Stem: Answer The One (black)
Grips: Answer Fall Line DH grips (black)
Shifter: Shimano Saint
Brakes: Shimano Saint
Deraileur: Shimano Saint
Crank: Shimano Saint
Pedals: Blackspire Sub4's
Guide: e-13 LG1+ (white)
Chain Ring: e-13 34t (black)
Chain: Shimano XTR
Cassette: Shimano XT
Seatpost: Thomson Elite
Seat: Tioga SpyderD
Hubs: Hope Pro 2
Rims: Stans Flow
Spokes: DT comp double butted
Tires: Maxxis DHF 3C's

As suggested, I'll probably get a pair of Azonic Outlaw beater wheels as well for general DH/FR stuff and keep the light set for racing.

What do you think? I hope the frame comes in quick and I can have it built sometime around the middle of February. Of course, pics will be posted once she is ready.


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## kenbentit (Jan 2, 2003)

Well I'm obviously biased towards the Phoenix but it's hard to go wrong with any Turner. I rode my DHR for 6 years before selling it to a friend (he put another 3 seasons on it!). Ano. green would also be my 1st choice. Haven't had any experience with those rims for Dh though, kinda interested in seeing how durable they are.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

kenbentit said:


> Well I'm obviously biased towards the Phoenix but it's hard to go wrong with any Turner. I rode my DHR for 6 years before selling it to a friend (he put another 3 seasons on it!). Ano. green would also be my 1st choice. Haven't had any experience with those rims for Dh though, kinda interested in seeing how durable they are.


The wheelset was a reccomendation from one of the posts above for a superlight race set. I'll give it a try, and build a new set with 823's if they don't hold up.


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## norbar (Jun 5, 2007)

Banshees customer service is as good as Turners. That I can assure you.Good choice anyway. If the turner was released earlier it would also be on my shortlist though I'd go for burly over light. Hope you like your bike.

As for wheels - hope pro 2s on 823s and tubeless tires with a bit of sealant.


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