# Permanent roof rack installations?



## Vulcanius (Nov 4, 2011)

I've got a Nissan Juke that I'm considering putting permanent roof rails on. I've already got an aftermarket 1.25" hitch which I use with a Kuat NV for carrying my bikes. But I'm looking at something for transporting kayaks, skis, maybe a roof box, etc. I'm staying away from traditional clamp on systems anymore; a previous Yakima setup caused damage when the pads rapidly deteriorated and the towers slid. I'm curious if anyone here has had experience with the Yakima or Thule rails, or another manufacturers. I've got a sun/moon roof and I live up north so those add further worries for me. I've been to a local Rack Attack and they don't foresee any problems with installation. I'm wondering if I'm not better of towing a small trailer instead.

Anyone with permanent rails who can give feedback on their experience?


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

This reminds me of a Mercury Topaz I saw at a trailhead bak in the 90s that had fork and wheel mounts bolted on the roof and trunk. Wish I had a pic.


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## mtbikerTi (Jan 15, 2004)

I put Yakima tracks on my Honda Civic wagon, I used the version with the standard nuts on the inside vs the "plusnuts". No leaks or problems after five years. It was nice to be able to put the crossbars exactly where I wanted them for bikes or kayaks, plus it was solid, no worries about the rack flying off.


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## bigflamingtaco (Oct 26, 2013)

You can buy rails... but a junkyard is cheaper. Many vehicles use a 1" rail to attach crossbars. Any year Ford Escape comes to mind, since I own one. Get a set, cut them to the length you need. It's nothing more than an extruded rail with finishing caps. Pull the caps out, cut to length, bolt down, push the caps back in.

In addition to the rail, grab the nuts and bolts, and also any cross rails, as you can typically shorten them to fit as well. Might not want them for your bike mount, but they are fine for cargo carriers, and tend to look nicer than what you can reasonably build.

I made feet for my bike rack from 1.5" sections of structural aluminum I-beam. A strip of 0.1875" stainless flat bar threaded for two bolts slides into the rail. I'll get some pictures tomorrow if I can.

The rails are permanent, the bike rack is not. I can put the oem cross rails back on for carrying ladders, canopies, coolers, etc.


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## bigflamingtaco (Oct 26, 2013)

As promised:

1" rail that came on the escape, with the end cap slid out a bit, you can pull them out by hand:









Feet. A 1" wide strip of steel can slide into the rail. Cut a length that matches the part that will sit above the rail, drill through both with the pre-tap drill bit, then tap the lower strip and drill out the upper piece for the bolts:









Another angle:









I went with Saris Traps (fork mounts) at one end:









And made a sliding mount for the Thule T2 cradle mated to Echelon wheel straps at the other:









Whole thing was less than $300 to mount 4 bikes as solid as you can get:









There are standless D-Rings for further securing the bikes with ratchet straps, but I found that to be overkill. I can put pop up shelters or ladders on it, so they get some use.

I was thinking about redesinging a new rack with a wheel retention system, like 1up and others, but with the rear tire having a non-moving set of bars. I already roll the middle bikes on from the rear of the car (they face rear-ward), and think one could easily load a tandem like that if a 1up type wheel support is at the other end in a fixed position. Roll the bike on rear wheel first, when the rear wheel is with the "trap", lift up an arm to trap the front wheel. One person could easily load a tandem like that, even on taller vehicles by using a small stool. I always have boy's 1ft stool in case I have to park next to a downslope. It would be tall enough for loading bikes from the rear of an Expedition.


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## bigflamingtaco (Oct 26, 2013)

Image goofiness at the end. No idea.


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## bigflamingtaco (Oct 26, 2013)

Aaaaand..... I included comments meant for the tandem rack thread. Jeez, I can't wait for Friday.


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

Really nice work there! Rhino Rack also offers permanent mount rails, which I am going to put on my '95 4Runner. They offer them in a bunch of lengths (I am going with 63" so I have the whole roof to use) and the prices are significantly less than and have equal quality to Thule and Yakima.


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## Chad_M (Jul 11, 2013)

I did the yakima rails on a pick up topper. They worked really well. I would be a little shy to drill into a car roof though.


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## Vulcanius (Nov 4, 2011)

Seriously, that's a phenomenal rack bigflamingtaco.

Yeah Chad_M, if I do decide to install rails I'll definitely be paying to have Rack Attack or another company do it for me. At least that way there'll be some form of warranty on the work and a transfer of liability in the event that the install goes wrong. My biggest concerns are with weather causing rusting, and living up north with the salt in winter. In addition to that I question the impact on the value of the car in the future.

Are the rail systems a standard set of dimensions? So I'd be able to use different brands of racks or other accessories?


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## DOCRIGID (Sep 16, 2009)

I have yakima rails on a 96 honda accord coupe, for over 8 years, no leaks, no issues. It was alittle nerve racking drilling into the roofline.


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## bigflamingtaco (Oct 26, 2013)

Thanks for the compliments. In hindsight, 0.125" thick 6063 is about twice as much as I needed, even though I like to toss 20-30 2x4's up there so I can leave the trailer at home.

Rhino Rack is decent enough, but I can't find a single fork mount rail for less than $150. Yakima's Raptor rail goes for $100-120. not that I'd buy that either, it would still have run me $100-150 more than what I built, and I would have had to spend more to get a more stable crossbar setup. Can't say I felt the oem bars were trustworthy enough for four MTB's. Forget the long distance trips with two kayaks and two bikes.

Installing rails is quite easy:

1) Throw away any templates and instructions.
2) Set the rails exactly where you think you want them with the crossbars installed and at opposite ends of the rails, with the very outer holes in the rails exposed.
3) Use a tape measure to square it up on the roof.
4) Mark one hole at the end of one of the rails. Move the rack aside, drill the hole.
5) Put a bolt through the rail and bolt it to the roof. Snug the nut so the bolt sits straight, but loose enough that you can rotate the rail.
5) Square the rails again with a tape measure, mark hole at opposite end of the same rail, move rail aside, drill hole.
6) Put a bolt through rail and hole at that end, then tighten both down so the rail doesn't move.
7) Drill hole at one end of other rail, insert bolt. Repeat at other end, then tighten both.
8) Remove or slide crossbars and drill all other holes.
9) Remove rails and crossbars, deburr all holes, install sealant/gasket, reinstall rails and torque bolts to spec.

Seems like a lot of steps, but it's pretty much how to propely handle the bolting of any object to another when you want to ensure an accurate install. Drill and install the two bolts furthest apart, then use the pre-drilled holes in the object you are bolting down to guide your bit on the rest. If you are really anal, check the rails with a straight-edge prior to drilling the very middle hole, bolt it down, then drill the rest. Can't say I've seen a 1" rail that was than flimsy, but they could exist.

Vulcanius - Outside the fact that 1 and 1-1/8" aluminum extrusion rails are very common, there is no real standardization of oem or aftermarket rail systems. Some oem rails are bolted to a flat roof surface, others have a valley in the roof in which a rail sits. Some vehicles are wider than other, so the crossbars are different lengths. The escape through some year had crossbars that slide about on the rail, later years they changed to raised sidebars that still mount to 1" rail, with crossbars attached to them. OEM racks are literally all over the place, but if you're grabbing rails and crossbars from the same used vehicle, you've got all you need. Same for the aftermarket rail systems. Rails and crossbars are a system, keep them together unless you can make feet for the rail for your own crossbars or rack. I used a drill and hacksaw to make mine.

Almost every accessory out there is designed to mount to crossbars, and most can mount to nearly every cross bar shape. Once you get a rail/crossbar system installed, you're golden. Bikes, kayaks, cargo trays, cargo carriers, ski and snowboard carriers, lights, speakers, load stabilizers, travel bags, etc.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

Travis Bickle said:


> This reminds me of a Mercury Topaz I saw at a trailhead bak in the 90s that had fork and wheel mounts bolted on the roof and trunk. Wish I had a pic.


Hah...sounds similar to this Neon I spotted a while ago:


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