# 300 lumins enough?



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

is 300 lumins, via LED, enough for a headlight ride XC trails?

example: http://www.bikelightingsystem.com/multisport.html

I may buy this: a Jetlites Blast HID 1000 
http://www.jetlites.com/complete-systems/
Price: $329.00
14w HID Head Lamp 1000 lumens
Helmet Mount
NiMH Battery


----------



## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

If you had two 300 lumen lights one on the helmet and one on the bars then that would get you by, but only one 300 lumen light wouldn't cut it on XC trails. I would look for something more than 300 lumens though as that is pretty weak. No matter how bright your light is it is still preferable to use both a helmet mounted light and also a bar mounted light together when trail riding. 

I wouldn't even consider a HID light at this point as LED lights have progressed enough to surpass HID. I used two Niterider HIDs for a couple of years and they were great at the time, b/c they had good output and runtimes were much better than the halogen light I was replacing. Then LED lights came onto the scene and I replaced my HIDs more than 2 years ago and I have never looked back. If it was 5 years ago I would recommend HID, but in 2010 there is no way. Stick to LED.


----------



## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

I think it is enough for technical slow singletrack. You would out ride it more than likely on fast trails. Are your trails 6-10mph and tight and twisty? I am still using a Niterider Trail Rat 2.0, and use to combine that with a 15w before I lost that light, but I do not know what that equals in lumens. I am in the market for new lights, but things are changing so quickly it is hard to figure what I want. I think a Cygolite Expilion 250 or Niteride Minewt 250 cordless mount on the helmet with the Trail Rat on the bars would be sufficient for the riding I do here in New Hampshire.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*LEDs*



MaximusHQ said:


> If you had two 300 lumen lights one on the helmet and one on the bars then that would get you by, but only one 300 lumen light wouldn't cut it on XC trails. I would look for something more than 300 lumens though as that is pretty weak. No matter how bright your light is it is still preferable to use both a helmet mounted light and also a bar mounted light together when trail riding.
> 
> I wouldn't even consider a HID light at this point as LED lights have progressed enough to surpass HID. I used two Niterider HIDs for a couple of years and they were great at the time, b/c they had good output and runtimes were much better than the halogen light I was replacing. Then LED lights came onto the scene and I replaced my HIDs more than 2 years ago and I have never looked back. If it was 5 years ago I would recommend HID, but in 2010 there is no way. Stick to LED.


yup, will do LEDs.

maybe about 700 lumins for helmet and about the same or more on handlebar


----------



## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Hi Trailnut, at $279 for the Stella 300lumen, another option only $30 more and twice the output is the new Piko from Lupine. Francios just road with one and in his words brought a tear to his eye. Preliminary tests shows it brighter than the Tesla at 55 lux with a tighter beam.Not sure if there will be a wide lens option?


----------



## blooper (Sep 27, 2005)

Look at the Jet A 51 for $200 instead of the Blast. Got one last night and all I can say is WOW!
Very bright and good quality.


----------



## MightyDingus (Jul 31, 2010)

I had the original Jet HID Blast (non 1000) which puts out about 700 lumen. 300 wouldn't be near enough unless you are doing nothing but climbing in granny gear. Their new A51 will out power it and is much cheaper. 

I also have their old LED system which I will be upgrading here very soon. The HIDs aren't really worth it anymore due to the progress that LED lighting has made lately. HID bulbs burn out and are expensive to replace. LED will last MUCH longer and be cheaper to replace, as well as cheaper up front costs.


----------



## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*600 lumens on the helmet.....*

works very nice for me.



















only 159 grams total weight of light head and battery :thumbsup:

***


----------



## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

I've raced multiple times with only 300 lumens, a couple of laps having only a handlebar-mounted light. Hell, back in the day, 300 lumens was top-of-the-line!

For average XC riding, 300 lumens on your helmet should be fine. If you're doing faster stuff (as discussed earlier in the thread) you may want to pair that with a handlebar light of at least the same brightness.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

TrailNut said:


> yup, will do LEDs.
> 
> maybe about 700 lumins for helmet and about the same or more on handlebar


For about $60 *less *the cost of that 300 lumen L&M, you could have a Magicshine combo:

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php...ducts_id=204&zenid=ur2pnugsr7mrvptps33kfalad2

How many lumens is it really? I dunno, safe to say over 1200, maybe 1500.
Regardless, it's a ton of light, it's 2 seperate lights which is safer (you always want a back up anyway), and it's cheap.


----------



## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

fightnut said:


> For about $60 *less *the cost of that 300 lumen L&M, you could have a Magicshine combo:
> 
> http://www.geomangear.com/index.php...ducts_id=204&zenid=ur2pnugsr7mrvptps33kfalad2
> 
> ...


I recently bought a Magicshine. It's not 900 lumens. I think I've read it's been measured around 500. The quality is really low. Mine had a bad charger and a bad battery cable. Both were promptly replaced by Geoman, but it's hard to trust this thing in the woods at night. I'll always have a high-quality flashlight (Malkoff or Surefire) strapped to my helmet as backup in case the MS decides to crap out suddenly again.

I'm shopping again. The Piko looks interesting.

To the OP: 300 lumens is plenty if you're not near brighter lights and not going super fast.


----------



## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

TrailNut said:


> yup, will do LEDs.
> 
> maybe about 700 lumins for helmet and about the same or more on handlebar


Sounds like a good plan. I ride with a Lupine Betty with a wide lens on the bar at 1750 lumens, and a Lupine Wilma on the helmet at 1000 lumens. Most of my trail riding I use the Betty at 40% power which is 700 lumens and I run the Wilma at 60% power which is 600 lumens. So combined I typically run 1,300 lumens total and go to full power when I feel like it which is usually on the downhill sections. I have yet to run out of battery on any ride and usually charge my batteries after every 2-3 rides. I own a Magicshine 900 light also which I lone out to friends and for the price it ain't half bad.

I do approximately 75% of all of my riding at night b/c of my work schedule and also b/c I just prefer riding at night. Two lights is the way to go. In the distant past when I used to use only one light, I remember the horrible feeling when I would have the battery run out long before I finished my ride and I would have given anything to have a backup light or at least a second battery. I remember the days when I used halogen lights and the way they would get dimmer and dimmer until there was hardly any light left. I also remember my NiteRider Hids and they would only give about a ten minute warning before it would shut out the main bulb completely. At least I had the NR HID version that had 4 little LEDs on it and it would switch to those when the battery was low, but what a drastic change in light output from going to the HID output to the little LEDs which only put out like maybe 20 lumens. Going through those times makes me appreciate how far bike lights have come.

Bottom line is get two LED light sets (2 separate light heads and two separate batteries) keep the batteries charged up enough for you rides. If you want to ride the trails as fast at night as you do in the day then you probably want more than 1,000 lumens combined between bar and helmet lights. Whatever lights you get, enjoy the heck out of your night rides.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Vermont29er said:


> To the OP: 300 lumens is plenty if you're not near brighter lights and not going super fast.


Yes, as stated above, just ride by yourself (because most everyone on a group ride will have brighter lights and just wash yours out), and ride slow ('cause that's fun)


----------



## onbelaydave (May 10, 2006)

My main light is 40 LUM, I have a few 1000 mi on it. I can't even imagine more than 300 LUM.

Beyond that, it's not really "night riding".


----------



## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

I ride primarily on the road on dark twisty hilly country roads. I don't think you can have too much - at least haven't hit it yet. But I have a Dinotte 1200. Low for climbing (about 600 lumens or so), medium on the flats (800 lumens or so) and high at 1200 for descending. Truthfully, I'd like to ride it at 1200 all the time. 

J.


----------



## crimecrusher (Feb 27, 2009)

If your light is a quality light then the 300 lumens should be enough. I've seen a 240 lumens light out perform a 400 lumens light...not sure why other than the quality of the light. In this example the 240 lumens light was about twice the price of the 400 lumens...so quality does play a part.

I have a nitrider 600 LED that is 600 lumens. I have it turned down to 450 lumens so I get the run time I need. It is plenty on my helmet and I can't really tell much difference in at the 450 setting vs the 600 setting.


----------



## wheatgerm (Jan 30, 2006)

blooper said:


> Look at the Jet A 51 for $200 instead of the Blast. Got one last night and all I can say is WOW!
> Very bright and good quality.


Any chance you can post up a beam shot? I have an old Jet Lite halogen light that's been good to me but I'm looking for a newer LED setup.


----------



## sbc (Feb 18, 2004)

A quick review on the Expilion 250. Prior to this I have been running a regular 120 lumen LED flashlight with a rubber band mount. Did this for 2 years and it was good enough for my daily night rides. I usually ride on the same roads so there are very little surprises. This year I upgraded my setup to the Expilion which is a 250 lumen. The difference is pretty much night and day. The amount of light output is notthing short of amazing. I am able to venture off the beaten path (literally) at night with little concern. The only faults that I can find is that the handlebar mount is poorly made - it is hard to remove and install. But other than that I really cannot fault this setup. Of course more lumens is better but if comparing 250 LM to 250 LM then this thing ranks very highly.


----------



## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I used to ride just fine with 80, you get used to what ever you've got, the issue is if you've got 80 and your mates got 600 then your eyes will adjust to his and you'll barely notice your light.

Get the same as your mates of if you ride on your own anything will do, don't get more cause then they'll get more and this will repeat until your all skint!!


----------



## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

I have a Dinotte 200L dual setup. 

I can definitely get by on the trail with 300 lumens - one light on 50% (100 lumens) and the other on high (200 lumens).


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Seriously?*



Vermont29er said:


> I recently bought a Magicshine. It's not 900 lumens. I think I've read it's been measured around 500. The quality is really low. Mine had a bad charger and a bad battery cable. Both were promptly replaced by Geoman, but it's hard to trust this thing in the woods at night. I'll always have a high-quality flashlight (Malkoff or Surefire) strapped to my helmet as backup in case the MS decides to crap out suddenly again.
> 
> I'm shopping again. The Piko looks interesting.
> 
> To the OP: 300 lumens is plenty if you're not near brighter lights and not going super fast.


No, a MS is not 900 lumens. You're right. It's closer to 550 lumens real world. IMO, still way more than enough for most stuff, even techy stuff and singletrack at speed.

I've done fast laps at 24HOA races with a whole lot less light than that. I did a night ride for the first time in about a year just last week, and I used both Magicshines. I actually kept them on low and medium just about the whole time. I only went to high beam on both when doing the final descent back home.

I currently run two Magicshines. I started out with one Magicshine on the helmet to compliment my NiteRider Digital Pro 12e, (32 Watts of Halogen on high beam) and not only was it way brighter, it threw a beam farther and better, and ran 3 times longer, and at 1/4 the weight.... and it doesn't take up my bottle cage. Yeah, once I got the Magicshine, the NR light went on the shelf. I really should try and sell it for a nickel at the next swap meet.

I sorta agree that the quality isn't tops, but it is decent. It's not crappy. The little screw that holds the head to the mount loves to back out if you don't put a dab of loctite on it, and the clicky switch only cycles through one way. I also killed one battery by leaving it on the charger for six months, so a smart charger it is not. Other than that, it's fine.

On the plus side, you can buy two whole Magicshine systems for what one battery form NiteRider costs. I ordered the cells to make myself a two cell battery... half the size of the stock battery. 90 minutes of runtime on high is plenty for most of my uses. Still, it will get me 3+ hours on low beam. Total cost of cells... $9... but I have to build it, solder it and shrink wrap it.


----------



## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

I often ride single track rides with only 200 to 250 lumen (good throw, on the helmet). My main light is an EagleTac (great torch) http://www.eagletac.com/flashlights/t10l.html, and I have also used several options from Deal Extreme. Riding tight, twisty to flowy single track for a couple winters (going on three) including some night races with this setup without any problems. Some people ride with so much light, it hardly qualifies as "night riding". So IMHO you will be fine with 300 lumen.


----------



## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

rkj__ said:


> I have a Dinotte 200L dual setup.
> 
> I can definitely get by on the trail with 300 lumens - one light on 50% (100 lumens) and the other on high (200 lumens).


You confirm what I already know to be true. If you want to "get by" then 300 is enough, otherwise go for more and always use two lights, helmet and bar.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

IMHO said:


> I often ride single track rides with only 200 to 250 lumen (good throw, on the helmet). .


Are you riding alone? I ride with a group, and a light like that would be washed out by the other lights.


----------



## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

IMHO said:


> I often ride single track rides with only 200 to 250 lumen (good throw, on the helmet). My main light is an EagleTac (great torch) http://www.eagletac.com/flashlights/t10l.html, and I have also used several options from Deal Extreme. Riding tight, twisty to flowy single track for a couple winters (going on three) including some night races with this setup without any problems. Some people ride with so much light, it hardly qualifies as "night riding". So IMHO you will be fine with 300 lumen.


 I myself happen to be one of those people who ride with "so much light".I can tell you when i'm up thousands of feet in the back woods of where i live at 11:00pm,and at times riding solo.Suddenly twenty feet away out of my beam of light i hear crashing and turn to see two bear cubs flying up a tree but no momma.Then turn the other way to see those tiny eyes of the bear, and the breath of her exiting while she's staring through me. For those few seconds while i'm picking my bike up beneath me to do my 180 and i'm waiting for the charge,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it doesn't come and i ride away to continue my night ride. Trust me, i feel as much of a night rider as yourself!!


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

IMHO said:


> Some people ride with so much light, it hardly qualifies as "night riding". So IMHO you will be fine with 300 lumen.


Night riding means riding after dark. Riding with 300 lumens is riding in the dark.


----------



## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

indebt said:


> I myself happen to be one of those people who ride with "so much light".I can tell you when i'm up thousands of feet in the back woods of where i live at 11:00pm,and at times riding solo.Suddenly twenty feet away out of my beam of light i hear crashing and turn to see two bear cubs flying up a tree but no momma.Then turn the other way to see those tiny eyes of the bear, and the breath of her exiting while she's staring through me. For those few seconds while i'm picking my bike up beneath me to do my 180 and i'm waiting for the charge,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it doesn't come and i ride away to continue my night ride. Trust me, i feel as much of a night rider as yourself!!


Sounds like you need to ride with a gun! :eekster:

I will clarify...for the typical group night ride, on XC trails, sure, 300 lumen is plenty. Beam pattern would be pretty important also. I first started with a flood on the bars and a thrower on the helmet but now typically ride with just a helmet mounted light (180-250L) with decent throw so I can see what is ahead and around the corners. I have not had any problems, and yet I do not have super human vision. Sure, obnoxiously bright lights on a group ride could drown out my light (I suppose), but I have found that most high lumen lights are floody, Anyway, I do not see that as a reason to try to have more lumen than the next guy just for the purpose of not being washed out.

Just my opinion, but one of the joys of "night riding" is that the trails I ride in the daytime seem different and present new challenges at night. Admittedly, It is also a challenge when someone is coming directly toward you with 1800+ Lumen shining off their bars and helmet, but I guess that just adds to the adventure.


----------



## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

A gun would be nice,but it probably go off in an endo causing me more issues than the bears so far.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

IMHO said:


> ...Admittedly, It is also a challenge when someone is coming directly toward you with 1800+ Lumen shining off their bars and helmet, but I guess that just adds to the adventure.


Hummmm...I've often wondered what protocol existed for when two night riders meet on a trail at night ( head-on ). Believe it or not, I've rarely ever encountered another night rider until my last ride. My reaction was to turn all lights off except one, my bar mounted P-7 torch on low. Of the two riders I encountered ( they were together ) one used only a low lumen torch or light on the bars while the guy behind him had an HID helmet lamp. The HID was so bright I had to look straight down so I could see. Very annoying that was BUT it was an HID so likely no low beam.  Head-on to 1800lm would be totally blinding, not a good thing. :nono:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *indebt*
> I myself happen to be one of those people who ride with "so much light".I can tell you when i'm up thousands of feet in the back woods of where i live at 11:00pm,and at times riding solo.Suddenly twenty feet away out of my beam of light i hear crashing and turn to see two bear cubs flying up a tree but no momma.Then turn the other way to see those tiny eyes of the bear, and the breath of her exiting while she's staring through me. For those few seconds while i'm picking my bike up beneath me to do my 180 and i'm waiting for the charge,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it doesn't come and i ride away to continue my night ride. Trust me, i feel as much of a night rider as yourself!!


Oh crap! And here it was I expected all the nice bears to be in bed after dark.  
This totally shoots down any ideas I had of riding through the mountains after dark. Just don't tell me that big ol' rattlesnakes like to stargaze on trails at night. Bears I can deal with ( black bear that is ) but me no likey the idea of rattlesnakes at night. ( *Disclaimer: However, if I don't see them and they make no noise when I ride by I'm good.  )


----------



## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Like others here, I've ridden with a single Magicshine on the helmet and it is quite sufficient. At 500-600 lumens it is fine for even some moderately fast downhills, but anything above 15mph you start to lose the details. If you're looking down the trail, you lose sight of what is directly in front of your wheel. If you look in front of your wheel, you can't see the right line to take or obstacles farther out. It can be done, but I found myself looking around a lot, scanning over the trail. I wouldn't ride many trails except for well groomed ones with just 300 lumens. 

With two MS900's it's really a perfect setup with one on the bars and one on the helmet. The one on my bars is pointed right in front of the front tire, and the one on my helmet is pointed where I'm looking, which is usually down trail. I also like having two headlights for the redundancy, because lets face it, the MS900 is a $90 light. It's a damn good $90 light, but it's still not of the highest quality. That being said, I've had one MS900 for over a year now. I've used it through rain, mud, commuting, trail riding, and it still works perfectly. Even the battery still gives me a good 2.5 hours on high. As long as that legacy holds true, I don't see a reason to buy anything else.

Except for the Amoeba...that is one bada$$ light and I dig the small form factor!


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Ok, then I guess 700* + 600 (MagicShine"900") should be fine.

*For my new handle bar light: I'm deciding between a Jetlite A-51 vs. BajaDesigns Stryker...

http://www.jetlites.com/complete-systems-a-51
vs.
https://www.bajadesigns.com/NET/C-397/STRYKR


----------



## gilavar (Jan 8, 2010)

Depending on your shopping preferences: For “K-Mart” go with 2 or 3 Magicshine, otherwise I would recommend NR MiNewt-700 Dual and Cherybomb.


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

I think the dual head of the Minewt 700 will give a really sweet beam pattern.:thumbsup: 

I just don't like the $179.99 MSRP on the replacement/additonal battery.


----------

