# Build vs. Buy



## Juancts (Dec 20, 2011)

Hi there. I'm relatively new to mtb (around 2 yrs) and i want to get me a new bike for the trails. My first MTB was a Trek Marlin 2012 and it served me well for a first bike.

I've been looking @ Specialized Epic HT 2017. It costs $1,800.

Some friends tell me not to buy a new expensive bike. Instead i should buy a used frame (or bike) in good condition and build it with the components i like.

Any recommendations ???
Thanks for your help !!!


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

I would first ask, what frame and fork and wheelset are you able to purchase and how much for those 3 together?

I've built a few dozen bikes just for myself, family, and friends over the past few years, and it's harder than it sounds to just find a great frame to build up. Literally most people who suggest this have never tried finding a good deal on a frame "right now" they want to build up. The best deals I've gotten required months to years of watching ebay, CL, and pinkbike. And, I've gotten some killer frames this way, but if you want a deal, it's a long game not a short one.

With that being said, typically the easiest is to find a used but still complete bike. You can save a ton this way and not have to deal with the effort of putting an entire bike together. Upgrade components as they wear out or when you really want to change one out. In a reasonably short amount of time, you can have a top end bike. But, it's still not going to be extremely cheap. But if you take the $1800 you would have spent for a new bike, you'll unquestionably end up with a better ride this way.


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## Bhaalgorn (Jul 16, 2015)

I don't like buying new bikes any more than I like buying new cars; they depreciate 20% the second you drive off the lot. I enjoy tinkering, so repairs and maintenance on used bikes makes it a no-brainer for me. I think your friends are giving you good advice, and I suspect they'd be able to help you out when needed.

I also second what jestep said. The key to good deals is patience. I'd recommend looking for a complete, used bike for most people. Check out the buy/sell groups on Facebook (i.e. Online Swap Meet), but Craigslist and eBay have worked well for me too.

If your chief aim is saving money, you're a capable mechanic, and you have the requisite tools to build a bike, than building a bike with used parts is a good and cheap option if you're patient. Keep in mind that there are a lot of unique tools required and parts compatibility can be complex. .


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## drdocta (Feb 10, 2017)

I'd say take that 1800 and buy a nice used or if your LBS has a nice pre-owned department go that way. 

Buying just a frame and using the remaining cash to get your components will net a bike with lesser components than a fresh 1800 new one, even if you get great deals on the parts. I'm in the industry and get heavy discounts but I still wouldn't try to build up a bike from a frame because I'll spend easily double what the same(ish) bike would have cost msrp. 

Buying new at msrp or if you get a nice deal on a past year's model at your LBS is not a bad way at all to get a new bike but...

If you get a decent used complete bike for that price (1800 bike blue book value'd bike would be a bike that probably cost somewhere between 3200 and 4000 dollars new) you will get a hell of a ride and if any components wear out on you then you get to have fun replacing them with upgraded versions.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Juancts said:


> Hi there. I'm relatively new to mtb (around 2 yrs) and i want to get me a new bike for the trails. My first MTB was a Trek Marlin 2012 and it served me well for a first bike.
> 
> I've been looking @ Specialized Epic HT 2017. It costs $1,800.
> 
> ...


Check for closeouts on last year's bikes if you can.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Buy! Its not easy to do if you havent done it. I was motivated to do the same and went for it. Purchased everything and learnrd a lot about parts compatability etc but when itcame time to put it together thats another story. I knew my lbs would have had to install fork cut the fork headset and crank arms. I took it in for that, got to chat about the build, I did some thinking as in am I going to be safe? How longwill this take? Will I torque correctly. Ended up asking my lbs to just build it and they did and Im happy with my bike although looking back I could have gotten a Marin at almost of what I spent on my build. If you are a good mechanic go for it, if not go to the shop or CL and find yourself a deal and ride.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I'll never buy a complete bike again... I just keep upgrading things until I have enough in my spare parts box to build another bike. 

You have a bike you can use now, and if you have the time to wait out the good deals, its not a bad way to go about doing it. You get to build it exactly as you see fit, spending money in the areas you want to concentrate on, and saving money elsewhere. You can build a hell of a hard tail, if you can keep the frame costs down. Check out on-one or Ragley (CRC) for some inexpensive frame options. Or possibly even chinese carbon, depending on what youre looking for. But it definitely wont have the big name bling factor, if thats important to you.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

I'm a fan of buying a frame and then buying all the parts separately. Not because of any money savings, because as pointed out, it's usually more expensive this way. I do it that way in order to have the exact spec of components that I want.

If you shop around, and buy parts that are either used, or last years models on close-out, you can do it for reasonable price. Still not as cheap as buying a complete bike, but you didn't have to settle for the build that the big companies spec on their complete bikes.

The only service I can't do my self at home would be any frame facing duties, like headset facing or BB facing and thread chasing. Those tools are just too much money for me to invest in. But I have bearing presses, star nut setter, steering tube jig for cutting down forks, brake bleeding kits, all the BB tools for each kind I work on and so on.

Now if you find a complete and it's spec'd exactly as you want it, way to go!


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## jimbowho (Dec 16, 2009)

Jestep: undoubtedly has been there and done that. I patiently watched eBay and Craigslist for a frame to pop up. One thing not noted is when you go this route try not to get too excited when you find A-frame until it is in your hands. Due to mankind/people being dishonest blowhards. There's a lot of ass gaskets out there.
Unfortunately for me this is the route I have to take because I am choosy about my grip shift, Wheels, bars, SLX compact 3× (back on 3x luv it). For me everything has to be strong.
If you are a casual Rider and not particularly choosy I would just go with a good deal on a whole bike and learn from it, tinker and upgrade as you go.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I just built a tallboy 3. It takes a lot of research and time. It also takes 1 to 2 months to get all the parts you need to complete your build. It's a great way to learn your bike so you always know you can work on it. It can save you money as you get exactly what you want the first time.
My build ended up costing me $6600 including pedals and other accessories. It's a higher end build then the XX1 Enve on the web site so around 11 to 12 k if I bought a complete bike and upgraded it.
I'll never buy a complete bike, but I've been riding long enough to understand what I want and need.
Fun and frustrating at the same time. But at the end of the day it's something you built and that makes it special.


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

Build baby build - Just not all at once. Just like any construction project, you must have a solid foundation - The frame. I pick up the components that I want when I find good deals. It takes a while, but eventually I have what I want and assemble it myself.

For the record, I also bikepack and knowledge of how everything goes together is invaluable if you break down in the middle of nowhere.

I only have one bike that I bought completed and that is my Giant TCR... The price was way too good.
Ones I have built.
Our road tandem.
Our new mountain tandem.
My Surly Karate Monkey bikepacking rig.
My Lynskey M290 full hardtail bikepacking rig.

And in process is my Foundry FireTower with a Lauf fork.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

Spec'ing your own is alot easier with a hardtail, because the frame cost is low relative to the build cost. Also hardtail frames have no moving parts, so they don't wear out. A very nice perfect functioning hardtail frame can be had for ~$200. 

Grab a groupset from Merlin or Ribble, and really look for deals on forks and wheels. I personally would go slx, with a set of hope hoops, and then get all the fork I could afford.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I'm a big fan of building - my last two have been done that way, and I've had one or two others I've done similarly in the past.

I've done a super cheap budget build, I've done a workhorse build, and I've done a pretty high end build.

They all cost more than I initially wanted to spend, but they all turned out to be pretty good bikes. The super cheap one was my first build, and I had to purchase a different fork because the first one had poor geometry for the frame (axle-crown was too short - but it was hard to know what to buy at first because the frame was a $20 used raw alu ebay special). To keep the build cheap, I had to buy a lot of bargain basement stuff. Namely the frame. I also got some parts donations. The wheels, particularly, and they weren't in usable condition when I got them. A bunch of spokes were mangled and the wheel needed rebuilt. So I had to buy spokes and figure out how to re-lace the wheel. I also made it a singlespeed, mostly for the budget. Not buying shifty bits kept costs WAY down. The bike was also rigid, so a lack of suspension also kept costs down. It was a fun bike, and I actually sold it for more than I spent on the build (those parts donations helped a LOT).

My workhorse build is my commuter. The frame is the flashiest thing about it (Salsa Vaya), which I bought as an employee purchase. It's got a bunch of oem takeoff cockpit bits (saddle, stem), super discount stuff (seatpost), and a few other freebies (bar tape, pedals). The wheels are better than most OEM wheels, but are built to be reliable and tough (Shimano M529 hubs, Velocity Dyad rims, plain ol straight gauge spokes, hand built). That bike still cost me over $2,000 all in. That's a bit on the high side for a workhorse build. That price will jump when I eventually wind up building a dynamo hub wheel for the front. I haven't decided if I'll strip the front wheel I have and rebuild it on the new hub, or just have a whole 2nd wheel built up.

I built my high end bike for a better "deal" as compared to MSRP, but that's because I shopped employee purchase gear pretty heavily. That one also took me the longest to build. I think about 6mo from the time I placed the first order (frame).

Assembling your own build is definitely rewarding, but to do so you need to be patient in the process. ESPECIALLY if you're trying to keep costs down. If that's a big motivation for you, you're also going to have to be flexible about component choices and just buy what you can get. If you have specific wants, you'll either have to extend your patience by a pretty big margin, or toss your concept of "budget build". And, you're likely to make mistakes. Especially your first time around. And if you're not careful, they can be expensive mistakes (especially if you break something while trying to install it, or cut a fork steerer too short, or something like that). And if you don't have all the tools you need, you'll need to include those in your budget, find a buddy who has them, or pay a shop to do it. I still don't have a headset press (but at least I work at a shop and have access to one when I'm not on the clock). I cannot bring myself to press bearings with a piece of allthread, fender washers, nuts, and plain ol wrenches. I've never seen a piece of allthread that was straight and square, and ovalizing the head tube on an expensive or difficult-to-get frame because I botched the headset pressing with a crappy tool is not something I want to experience.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Um, both.

If you build, you will likely spend more up front than if you buy. BUT, if you buy, you will likely end up spending enough extra to get exactly what you want to equal the $$$$ in your custom build. Then you will have some spare parts on your shelf.

The good thing about buying is that it is all sorted out - axles/hubs, bearings, bottom bracket, drivetrain...your fork crown clears your downtube... they all work together. If you don't know to look for certain incompatibilities it could get expensive.

The last bike I bought was a complete bike. I got lucky in that it was nearly exactly what I wanted. Changed grips and saddle, and added some graphics. It is upgrade-able, but I don't really care right now.
The bike before that, which I still ride more than any other bike, was, technically, just finished last week. It's a 2011 (and it would still benefit from some better tubeless strips).

-F


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## mr_chrome (Jan 17, 2005)

jestep said:


> I would first ask, what frame and fork and wheelset are you able to purchase and how much for those 3 together?
> 
> I've built a few dozen bikes just for myself, family, and friends over the past few years, and it's harder than it sounds to just find a great frame to build up. Literally most people who suggest this have never tried finding a good deal on a frame "right now" they want to build up. The best deals I've gotten required months to years of watching ebay, CL, and pinkbike. And, I've gotten some killer frames this way, but if you want a deal, it's a long game not a short one.


- absolutely what he said ^^......I've built my bikes for a number of years now, and I ALWAYS have to shop the frame first - it's the hardest to find / get a good deal on; everything else is pretty easy.......


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## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

I second the buy used option and build it up. Everything breaks sooner or later and ends up being replaced anyways so you mine as well get the parts you want. Basically you will need a frame, fork, and wheelset. From there you can get really good value on buying whole groupsets, like shimano XT for example.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

go buy a new santa cruz chameleon frame for 750, take the other 1000, but an xt groupset and a decent set of wheels. building is fun and you learn alot by doing as much of it yourself as you can


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I've built almost all of my bikes from sourced parts. All the bikes i've built are new and have come in considerably cheaper than buying the bike completely spec'd with the components I chose. I usually source and build at the end of or beginning of year when new models are coming out. If you're trying to build the latest hottest bike with the latest hottest components you probably won't be able to save anything. I usually build a new bike with previous years frame and components this helps to save quite a bit. Examples; 2007 Look 555 road bike with full Campy Chorus groupset and Campy Zonda wheels, $2500 sourced compared to $4800 from bike shop. Just built my Evil Following, Frame $2100, DVO Diamond fork $600, full m8000 group w/brakes $420, Dt Swiss XM481 w/350 hubs $450, $3570 maybe $4000 total w/contact points included. Cheaper than $5200 from Evil or bike shop. These prices are reflective of the fact that I do all the work myself including building wheel set. So depending on how resourceful and mechanical you are you can save money sourcing and building yourself. A complete bike is definitely the easier route to go but usually have mix and match parts to keep cost down so you wind up upgrading anyway costing more in long run. Like previous posters have mentioned building your bike from ground up is rewarding.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I always build my bikes because I know exactly what I want. It's not a way to save money, it usually doesn't save money because it's more expensive to buy components individually, even when you get deals on them. If you try to build the bike with the absolute cheapest stuff (still making sure they are quality components), you end up with a goofy build that doesn't work super well, and you'd have to wait a lot longer to actually find the deals to get the parts you want, rather than biting the bullet and paying a little more to get them all around the same time. Sometimes you can find a good new old stock frame that is discounted decently, but again you need to know exactly what you are looking for, easy to end up with something poor or something that isn't exactly what you thought it'd be.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Buying a frame and then buying the components makes the most sense. You get the exact spec and weight that you want for usually a fraction of the price. A friend just went this route and built a 18 lbs hardtail for 1,800 who already had his wheels. He would've paid 2x or 3x for that bike from a shop.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

If you are particular about your exact parts spec, then build it yourself.

But if you are generally OK with what comes spec'ed on complete bikes, you are absolutely going to save money going that route.

Yes, you can bargain hunt, buy lightly used, etc., and build and do it for a good price, but if you did the same with complete bikes, that would still be cheaper.

The problem with most examples I see of people building for less is that they are comparing their bargain-hunt build prices with MSRP prices for complete bikes. The better comparison would be to complete bikes that are lightly used or old inventory being blown out.

But again, if you are particular about exactly what parts you have, you are probably better off building, rather than buying complete and swapping out a bunch of stuff. 

What can change this calculation is if you already have a bunch of the more expensive parts.


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

I always build as well. I enjoy the process and know exactly what and why I want each component. Its definitely not for some. You also become more in touch with your bike mechanically and should be able to service or fix most anything.


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## burbskate (May 23, 2012)

I'm going to vote for the "but a complete". 

I don't mind tinkering, and will work on my own bikes - to upgrade or maintenance - but I just want to ride! Time is a premium and I'd rather be riding and not looking for parts. 

Plus there is the issue of warranty. Second hand frames do not have a warranty anymore. 

If I buy a bike locally, I can go back to them for a big issue. That being said, I did purchase a Bikes Direct fat bike - but for my main bike I went with a local purchased Trek. 

But like everyone says, if you know specifically what wheels you want, or what bottom bracket you prefer, or whatever, than you might be happier building your own. 

But since you're a newer rider, you might not know your preferences yet. And a complete is a good place to start. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

Juancts said:


> Some friends tell me not to buy a new expensive bike. Instead i should buy a used frame (or bike) in good condition and build it with the components i like.


Buying an used frame and then buying new parts is a waste of time and money IMHO, you might be better off buying a whole bike instead specially one of the brands that give you good components on an affordable bike.

If you want to build your own, patience and knowledge are key. Determine what frame you want and spec the parts you like for it. Use a spreadsheet to keep track of vendors and pricing so when you pull the trigger you buy knowing you have the best deal. This will take a lot longer and some effort but at the end of the day you got what you wanted the way you wanted.

Used to do that but my last two new bike purchases have been full bikes from Giant and Growler.

Good luck and post pics of that sweet ride.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I don't think I'll ever buy a complete bike again...unless it's good enough of a deal to buy for the frame alone.

I just built up a used bike with new and used parts. When I build a bike...I get what I want the _first_ time around. When you buy a complete...it's somebody's else's idea of what should be on your bike. Bar, stem, saddle will always be the first things to go. Last complete I bought, those parts were swapped out before it hit dirt.

For me frame material isn't the first priority. As long as the frame geometry suits me...it's all good.

I see so many people buy a complete bike...then a few months down the line...switch out almost every part.

My GF picked up a stock bike in September. Six months down the line...the bar, stem, saddle, brakes, and soon wheels will be switched out. Before the first ride. she had me swap out the stem. Then the bar...and so on and so forth. We went with the complete because it was a "good deal".

Buying a complete is cheaper initially...but catches up (fast) when you swap out every part bolted to the frame.

My .02.


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## Juancts (Dec 20, 2011)

Jayem said:


> I always build my bikes because I know exactly what I want. It's not a way to save money, it usually doesn't save money because it's more expensive to buy components individually, even when you get deals on them. If you try to build the bike with the absolute cheapest stuff (still making sure they are quality components), you end up with a goofy build that doesn't work super well, and you'd have to wait a lot longer to actually find the deals to get the parts you want, rather than biting the bullet and paying a little more to get them all around the same time. Sometimes you can find a good new old stock frame that is discounted decently, but again you need to know exactly what you are looking for, easy to end up with something poor or something that isn't exactly what you thought it'd be.


That was one of my concerns. Buying components individually is more expensive. Thanks !


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## Juancts (Dec 20, 2011)

RS VR6 said:


> I don't think I'll ever buy a complete bike again...unless it's good enough of a deal to buy for the frame alone.
> 
> I just built up a used bike with new and used parts. When I build a bike...I get what I want the _first_ time around. When you buy a complete...it's somebody's else's idea of what should be on your bike. Bar, stem, saddle will always be the first things to go. Last complete I bought, those parts were swapped out before it hit dirt.
> 
> ...


Yours is good advise. But what would be a good used bike to begin with (hardtail 29er) ???
I need a good used "foundation" to start swapping components . For example, there are several used rockhopers in my area. Any recommendations ???


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Juancts said:


> Yours is good advise. But what would be a good used bike to begin with (hardtail 29er) ???
> I need a good used "foundation" to start swapping components . For example, there are several used rockhopers in my area. Any recommendations ???


This is what I did when I was newer too or if I found a great day on the bike I wanted. I bought the complete bike and then started tinkering. If your spec is high enough you may just need to change the contact points on the bike and ride it. That's what I did with my first bike.

On the 2nd bike I bought complete and I used my parts from my first bike because I knew they were bullet proof. Still riding them 6 years later.

If you're unsure on where to start I recommend going to a demo day. A 29er rides very differently from a 26 and I haven't ridden a 27.5. I'm sure it's more playful than my 29er though. I hate using this phrase, but older geometry 29ers aren't playful. One of my bikes is very hard to wheelie, but it'lll plow through everything. That may or may not be for you. Ride as many bikes as possible to find what you like. Newer 29ers do not ride like that and my other one is more playful too.


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## BatCountry (Jun 7, 2012)

I bought a new bike years ago specifically because I liked the frame. Over the years I killed the factory components, often upgrading them as I went. Now the only original part of the bike is the frame, and it's STILL my favorite ride in the lineup. Not to mention the fun of the build..


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

Buying a complete bike clearanced out is by far the best bike/$ you can get unless you count your time sourcing each deal on components as free.

parting a bike is the wrong answer. Sorry, u just can't build a bike for the cost of a good deal on a complete bike even with every deal u can muster. this is objective and easily to find out yourself.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Buy complete and used so you can ride it while keeping an eye open for good deals on upgrade or replacement components (if needed). As long as you are buying something that fits well, don't get too caught up in the details of the perfect bike. You will likely get used to whatever you buy after some tweaks and some time on the bike.

I always make sure that I buy at a price that if I absolutely hate the bike, I can break even on flipping it. I have only spent over $1400 on a bike once in the past 20 years. Most of my money goes to consumables like brake pads, chains, cassettes, tires, fork seals, and chainrings.

After several years of owning bike shops and always having access to the newest and best, I am perfectly happy putting 2500+ trail miles a year on sub-$1000 used bikes, as long as my user interface points of saddle, grips, and pedals are consistent.


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