# pacifica: crack mile and boyscout



## 1962 (Feb 23, 2008)

if you see someone tearing down jumps in boyscout tell then to stop. if you can't hit it go around untill you have the skill. i live and build in this area.


----------



## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

1962 said:


> if you see someone tearing down jumps in boyscout tell then to stop. if you can't hit it go around untill you have the skill. i live and build in this area.


Probably a thread better suited in the NorCal forum.

EB


----------



## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

1962 said:


> if you see someone tearing down jumps in boyscout tell then to stop. if you can't hit it go around untill you have the skill. i live and build in this area.


Are the jumps_ legal_? I've been involved with tearing down illegal jumps and stunts that have been built without permission from land owners/managers. When people build unauthorized "features" it jeopardizes _everyone's_ access. Our group has worked very hard to get credibility with folks who's land ours trails go through and one of their biggest concerns that those land owners have is people not staying on the trails, and building more than what is authorized.

If your features are legal than that's a different matter and _no one_ should screw with them unless it's part of normal maintenance or improvements..


----------



## sanjuro (Sep 29, 2004)

zrm said:


> Are the jumps_ legal_? I've been involved with tearing down illegal jumps and stunts that have been built without permission from land owners/managers. When people build unauthorized "features" it jeopardizes _everyone's_ access. Our group has worked very hard to get credibility with folks who's land ours trails go through and one of their biggest concerns that those land owners have is people not staying on the trails, and building more than what is authorized.
> 
> If your features are legal than that's a different matter and _no one_ should screw with them unless it's part of normal maintenance or improvements..


Private property with permission from the owners.


----------



## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

sanjuro said:


> Private property with permission from the owners.


Are you sure about the features?

I thought the deal with Boy Scout was "private property, access ok with owners, but no stunts".


----------



## sanjuro (Sep 29, 2004)

HarryCallahan said:


> Are you sure about the features?
> 
> I thought the deal with Boy Scout was "private property, access ok with owners, but no stunts".


There have been jumps there in the 7 years I've been riding it, including Nelson.


----------



## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

sanjuro said:


> There have been jumps there in the 7 years I've been riding it, including Nelson.


I'd say check with the landowner and makes sure it wasn't him. We have some local dirt jumps that get bulldozed flat about every 3 years. Most people think building and riding there is OK because no one ever says anything. It's always a big shock when the landowner flattens everything. I asked and he says he never gave anyone permission to be there but doesn't want to spoil the fun of the kids who ride there. Every few years he flattens the jumps so for insurance purposes it looks like he's discouraging that kind of potentially dangerous activity on his land.

In most cases, rebuilding something the landowner has torn out is a sure way to get the whole place shut down.


----------



## FANATIK-J (Jan 12, 2010)

Well, sadly, there really are kooks out there that will tear-down jumps that are too big for them to hit, even if the jump is only 2' tall. Having to ride around the jumps offends their weak egos. This pathetic trait is usually exhibited by little kids that think that hitting jumps should be as easy as sitting on a couch watching the X-Games or playing Tony Hawk on Playstation or by some aging ex-roadie cross-country types. For these kooks just looking at the jumps and feeling that fearful tingle reminds them of what cowards they are. The rest of us feel that tingle and we accept the challenge and confront our fears and eventually we clear the jump. 

Anyway, I feel your pain, bro. Thanks for putting in work on the jumps!


----------



## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

FANATIK-J said:


> Well, sadly, there really are kooks out there that will tear-down jumps that are too big for them to hit, even if the jump is only 2' tall. Having to ride around the jumps offends their weak egos. This pathetic trait is usually exhibited by little kids that think that hitting jumps should be as easy as sitting on a couch watching the X-Games or playing Tony Hawk on Playstation or by some aging ex-roadie cross-country types. For these kooks just looking at the jumps and feeling that fearful tingle reminds them of what cowards they are. The rest of us feel that tingle and we accept the challenge and confront our fears and eventually we clear the jump.
> 
> Anyway, I feel your pain, bro. Thanks for putting in work on the jumps!


Now that sounds familiar. I'm an aging cross-country type and a lot of the people I ride with are as well. Some of them will "fix" other peoples trails if there are features they can't ride. For them it's not an ego thing. It's more of a convenience thing. They just don't want to have to stop and unclip and walk.

Personally, I'll get off my bike and walk around things I don't think I can ride. I don't have to unclip, I ride flats. Coward? I'm not sure if that's it. It could be but I like to call it practical. At my age it takes a very long time for broken bones to heal.

I don't know the trail in the OP but it sounds like there are perfectly good ride-arounds and tearing down jumps is hard work. I'll guess it's more than just someone who couldn't hit it. It sounds like someone who thinks the trail is unsafe. Either the land owner or a concerned citizen. In my experience, these two groups usually don't ride and aren't aware of what constitutes a "safe" stunt. They see a kid 4' in the air on a bike or a 12" wide ladder and it looks unsafe to them.

Talking to the land owner is the best way to solve this problem. If the stunts are allowed, he can put up signs saying so and if they're not, the OP will know.


----------



## FANATIK-J (Jan 12, 2010)

I tried to indicate that not all XC guys are sanitizers by saying "...some...". I strongly suggest that sanitizers build ride-arounds instead of leveling jumps; that way no one will get enforced on.


----------



## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

FANATIK-J said:


> Well, sadly, there really are kooks out there that will tear-down jumps that are too big for them to hit, even if the jump is only 2' tall. Having to ride around the jumps offends their weak egos. This pathetic trait is usually exhibited by little kids that think that hitting jumps should be as easy as sitting on a couch watching the X-Games or playing Tony Hawk on Playstation or by some aging ex-roadie cross-country types. For these kooks just looking at the jumps and feeling that fearful tingle reminds them of what cowards they are. The rest of us feel that tingle and we accept the challenge and confront our fears and eventually we clear the jump.
> 
> Anyway, I feel your pain, bro. Thanks for putting in work on the jumps!


Something you fail to mention is the implications of building unauthorized stunts/jumps in the first place. One can reverse the argument and say " who gave you the authority to build the features in the first place?" Jumps, stunts, etc are fine in their place but if the MTB community is to continue to have access we need to have credibility and when some of us go altering trails from what was planned and built we damage that credibility. 
If radsters are bored with plain old fashioned single track then they need to work with what ever managing agency is involved to get approval for something that meets their desire. As i said before, if a trail is authorized and built with technical features in the first place and people are tearing them down, that's not cool at all but if someone builds things illegally they have no right to complain when their feature get removed.


----------



## 1962 (Feb 23, 2008)

*other riders*

fact: this wasn't the land owner. it was other riders. i build jumps so beginners can learn to hit dubs. i've met many people adults and children that hit there first dub on my hip jumps and now they can go on to bigger dubs. my jumps have a low side and high side so when your ready to hit the hip dub it's there.


----------



## FANATIK-J (Jan 12, 2010)

Well, my perspective is a bit off because my last two builds (like most of my builds in the past) have been on land that was never used by bicyclists before. I live in the hills and I keep getting really lucky in finding canyons, ravines and roadside/creekside spots that are close-to-home and that allow for some awesome builds. I've been digging for the last year-and-half at my latest spot (massive!) and I've haven't done any trail-work at an authorized spot in 2 decades so my views are skewed. My basic premise is that MTB/BMX would have never evolved into all of its current glory if we didn't have renegades building and riding with near-reckless abandon. Semi-lawless mavericks started MTB and pioneered BMX. Where would street-skating or urban/street/trials biking be now if riders had always obeyed all municipal codes? Remember how un-authorized snowboarding used to be? I'm not saying everyone should build un-authorized jumps on authorized trails; I'm saying kudos to the irrepressible gung-ho spirit that has (often in the face of official repression) powered the underground sports into the public-eye and on into the future. Aggro bicycling is really all about progression, individually and collectively. And so there is a huge debt owed to law-breakers. And I, personally, like it that way. Its about frontiers and frontiers are always a bit libertine. 

Anyway, it sounds like it was torn-down by riders so my first post my have been on-target. There really are people out there that get all pissy when they discover that sports like ours sometimes require humility. These types are highly-self deluded and they don't respond well to jump-based ego-checks. 

Although if 1962 had these beginner lines built-in then it really is hard to imagine the motivation of the defacer.


----------



## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Have they completely removed the jumps or just dumbed them down? I'm baffled why another rider would tear down a jump. I understand dumbing them down, although I don't approve. Fanatik-j has that pegged. "I don't want to feel (or look) like a chicken so I'll make the main line so I can ride it".

1962, are you the only person who works on that trail? If not, have you spoken to the other people who do?


----------



## 1962 (Feb 23, 2008)

*Eb*

EB was right should have posted in NORCAL. i'm done with this thread, not getting anywhere. LATER


----------



## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

1962 said:


> EB was right should have posted in NORCAL. i'm done with this thread, not getting anywhere. LATER


Are you pissed? I felt you were getting some honest feedback. What were you expecting, a ground swell of anger? A pitty party? You can get some of those things here, but most of the time people come to the trails and advocasy page to find answers. (or a reasonable facsimile thereof. )


----------



## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Shelbak73 said:


> Are you pissed? I felt you were getting some honest feedback. What were you expecting, a ground swell of anger? A pitty party? You can get some of those things here, but most of the time people come to the trails and advocasy page to find answers. (or a reasonable facsimile thereof. )


haha we have failed him Shelbak... we have failed him.:nonod:


----------

