# Neuhaus Metalworks Hummingbird



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I recently (Saturday) got my NMW Hummingbird. I wanted to build the bike myself so I picked up the frame and many boxes of parts to put it together. I am 5'11" and I went with the HB ML+. Color is Prismatic Powders Dragon's Blood and the MRP fork is burnt bronze.

*Highlights*
Fork: MRP Ribbon SL Burnt Bronze
Frame: Neuhaus Metalworks Hummingbird ML+
Brakes: TRP Trail Evo
Drivetrain: SRAM AXS / E13 / Truvativ
Dropper: PNW
Wheels: Reynolds 329 / I9 hubs

I haven't had a chance to really ride it yet. But, my quick fire road / steeps shakedown was very very promising. The frame rides incredibly smooth. It feels like it damps trail chatter. The riding position feels upright, controlled, and strong. Drop the dropper and it's all downhill capability. The steeps I went down are sandy and loose, but the bike steers so well from the back that it was never an issue. I PR'd the the fast off camber and loose section with what felt like speed to spare.

The frame is littered with cool well thought out pieces - like the seat tube water bottle bosses that allow a 200mm dropper and normal bolts. It also tilts the bottle forward slightly and allows the largest possible bottle to fit for the frame size.

My very amateur pictures below:










MRP Burnt Bronze









Seatstay yoke









Seatstay and Chainstay yokes with tapered stays









Trying to catch sunset and just missing it


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## Threesticks (Jan 18, 2004)

That right there is a beautiful build.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Gorgeous!


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## coachxtaylor (Feb 13, 2020)

i’m so jealous. earlier this year i had a deposit down for a solstice 29 but had to pull out due to some financial constraints. the hummingbird actually ticks more of the boxes for me and it’s such a beautiful looking bike.


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## gubbinalia (May 11, 2020)

Looks fantastic. Really enjoy following your Neuhaus builds. Are you still riding the singlespeed Solstice too?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

With two young kids I haven't been able to singlespeed as much as I wanted. So, going back to geared bikes for now. To actually have fun and be okay at it I need to bike two days a week on an SS. My hyperlocal trails are better with gears and my trainer doesnt really help with SS. 

Cleaning up the SS (which I have been running with gears) and will be selling it soon.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

That makes me so excited for mine to ship, Nick thinks it will be this week. I will post here, if you don't mind, as soon as mine is built.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Looking forward to it!


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

I just had the opportunity to ride one last week. I was riding with a friend who has one, and we switched bikes for an hour or so. I was riding my Pipedream Cycles Sirius S5, which is definitely not overly stiff or harsh by any means, but WOW I was blown away by the feel of the Hummingbird! I momentarily forgot it was a hardtail. Great bike!


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I don’t even like hardtails and that thing is RAD.


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## Sully151 (Dec 31, 2021)

I am torn between this and the Chumba Sendero for my Hardtail.

I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts as you get more rides in. Also, how it compares to your Solstice.

I know Hardtail Party is getting one to review too!


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

Just beautiful.


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## GoldenPromise (Dec 4, 2020)

Oh hell yes. Nick is the man! And that bike is hot.


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## JackOfDiamonds (Apr 17, 2020)

What's the geometry?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Mine is the ML+


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## JackOfDiamonds (Apr 17, 2020)

Great, but how do companies specify seat tube angle nowadays? What does STA actually mean in case of offset seat tubes?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

JackOfDiamonds said:


> Great, but how do companies specify seat tube angle nowadays? What does STA actually mean in case of offset seat tubes?


As you can see from the drawing above, it is the effective angle of the seat tube from the center of the bb to the point where the actual seat tube angle line would intersect with the horizontal line which is at the top of the head tube. It's science!


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I wasted a bunch of Nick's time with questions when I was hoping to go with a custom hardtail, and what really impressed me was his ability to tune the ride using the chain stay and seat stay yokes. I will own one some day, but for now I must buy things for other people!! haha


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Are those numbers at sag or unsagged?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Unsagged.


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## gubbinalia (May 11, 2020)

cassieno said:


> With two young kids I haven't been able to singlespeed as much as I wanted. So, going back to geared bikes for now. To actually have fun and be okay at it I need to bike two days a week on an SS. My hyperlocal trails are better with gears and my trainer doesnt really help with SS.


That is super fair, singlespeeding takes a very specific type of fitness/strength. Your quiver seems pretty dialed with the Hummingbird and the extra-slack green sled as a pair.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Beautiful bike


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Finally got around to weighing it. I don't really care about weight, but I try and grab it at some point. More as an FYI. Right around 28 pounds (using the stand on scale with bike method). 

Took it for a proper ride on Friday. Initial impressions were reenforced. So smooth and so much grip. 

Looking forward to many more rides. 










Bottle cage bracket allowing the giant bottle with max dropper insertion (running a 200mm dropper)


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

Cassieno, what other bikes do you ride? How does the HM compare?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

So I cannot really compare to other bikes. My most recent non-nmw's were a guerilla gravity Smash and Trail Pistol. I sold those because I liked how my NMW hardtails rode so much better. 

I have ridden various "generation" NMW bikes as Nick's design ethos involved. And this design feels exceptional (he settled on it end of last year, with a couple small refinements early this year). 

Damped, smooth, and crazy rear-end grip is really what stands out to me on this frame. 

So my comparison is limited to a variety of full suspension to nmw hardtails that were so good I sold my FS bikes.

I am hoping others chime in with their experiences and comparasions soon here.


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## chafingdish (Aug 2, 2017)

Beautiful, love that color. Mine should be ready in the next few weeks. Beyond excited.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Nick (Neuhaus Metalworks) took better pictures of the bike - that really show off the colors. 

__
http://instagr.am/p/CfUEMYoLYNo/

I apologize if anyone hates Instagram (especially accessing it from a computer) I don't think it allows me to direct link pictures into a post.


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

cassieno said:


> Nick (Neuhaus Metalworks) took better pictures of the bike - that really show off the colors.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CfUEMYoLYNo/
> ...


Those pictures are amazing. The color is stunning. Great choice.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

So happy to finally have my Hummingbird in hand! I took it for a shakedown ride this morning, so I don't have an extensive review, but I am incredibly happy so far. The frame feels more damped in the rear than my Stanton Sherpa, but feels just as solid when applying power. In the front of the bike I didn't really notice any difference in ride or feedback, but the geo is SO much better for me. Amazing how having 10 sizes to choose from instead of 2 can do that.

Things I love:

Geo: Nick killed it here. The slight bit of extra stack he includes feels great so far, and the STA is perfect for me. Steep enough, but not crowding me when grinding out of the saddle. 
Details: The 3D-printed yokes, pencil thin, seat stays, ST bottle stand-off and the fact that he left the RD cable bosses off at my request all really complete the bike. 
Ride: As I mentioned, it seems muted in the most perfect way. Not lazy or sluggish, but doesn't have the sensation of a ringing bell when hitting rocks and roots. 
Clearance: Those are 2.5" tires.
Working with Nick: He was incredibly responsive, helpful and made it feel like a fully custom build, with less analysis paralysis. 
Things I love less (these are admittedly minor issues):


I'm not a fan of the dropper routing through the bottom bracket, it is just a pain to run the cable. The Sherpa has the cable exit and go under the BB. Slightly smoother run, but I don't love running the cable to such an exposed spot, and this looks SO much better on the SS.
The stickers aren't great, wish they were vinyl decals or paint, but I am sure we will see this detail come a long way over the next few iterations.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

That bike looks stunning. There is a trick to the dropper routing that I saw Nick do. It literally took him 5 seconds. I was impressed.

The muted / damped the rear of the bike is just amazing. I have been on a ton of rough trails the last couple of days and I am continually impressed. It's the smoothest riding hardtail I have been on. But it also doesn't have any unwanted wiggle / flex in the chain / seatstays.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

xjbaylor said:


> So happy to finally have my Hummingbird in hand! I took it for a shakedown ride this morning, so I don't have an extensive review, but I am incredibly happy so far. The frame feels more damped in the rear than my Stanton Sherpa, but feels just as solid when applying power. In the front of the bike I didn't really notice any difference in ride or feedback, but the geo is SO much better for me. Amazing how having 10 sizes to choose from instead of 2 can do that.


That's a beautiful color. How is the weight? Which version of the Sherpa do you have UK or Taiwan version?


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Funoutside said:


> That's a beautiful color. How is the weight? Which version of the Sherpa do you have UK or Taiwan version?


I was riding the Taiwanese made Sherpa, though I have plenty of time on other 853 bikes, along with other custom steel. The Hummingbird is my early favorite.

I only have a cheap fishing scale, but weight looks to be 24 lbs ready to ride with pedals and 3 oz of sealant/tire. other than the fork there were no real efforts to save weight, though the wheels and tires are pretty light for what they are I guess.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Damn 24lbs is impressive that's monstercross bike weight.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Funoutside said:


> Damn 24lbs is impressive that's monstercross bike weight.


Thanks! A monster cross bike is actually a great fit for the trails closest to me, I used to ride them on 38c tires when my joints were impervious to vibrations. This is not that different, just a little more capable and a lot more comfortable for my now 40 year old body.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

cassieno said:


> The muted / damped the rear of the bike is just amazing. I have been on a ton of rough trails the last couple of days and I am continually impressed. It's the smoothest riding hardtail I have been on. But it also doesn't have any unwanted wiggle / flex in the chain / seatstays.


I would agree. It is amazing how solid it feels in response to rider input, while remaining relatively indifferent to trail input.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

xjbaylor said:


> It is amazing how solid it feels in response to rider input, while remaining relatively indifferent to trail input.


This is a great one sentence that describes perfectly how these bikes feel and ride.


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## coachxtaylor (Feb 13, 2020)

xjaybaylor - what about the sherpa’s geometry did you not get along with? what size hummingbird are you running?


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

coachxtaylor said:


> xjaybaylor - what about the sherpa’s geometry did you not get along with? what size hummingbird are you running?


I am right between the 17" and 19" Sherpa, but the 19" had too long of a seat tube, and the 17" had too little stack. I ended up on a 17" and felt like length wise I would have been happiest with a 60-70mm stem, which just didn't feel right, especially as my other bikes are on 32-35mm stems. 

I ended up on a M+ Hummingbird, though I think Nick probably would have gone ML had he made the choice for me. The M+ is really nice with a 50mm stem, and works well for my tight, tree-infested, trails. I very easily could have gone with the ML, it probably is the better fit for me, but the M+ is feeling really good so far. 

While the Sherpa was a little too small I probably would have kept it if they had released the SS dropouts, but now I am happy they didn't. I would say the Hummingbird is a better bike, but it is better for me. I will miss the gorgeous paint on my Stanton though, everywhere else I give the nod to the Hummingbird so far.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

You made the Hummingbird sound temping to this new Sherpa owner. My wallet is hiding thankfully.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Funoutside said:


> You made the Hummingbird sound temping to this new Sherpa owner. My wallet is hiding thankfully.


I prefer the Hummingbird for sure, but I wouldn't recommend switching if the Sherpa fits you and you intend to run it geared. The difference isn't drastic enough to sell a great frame to get a different great frame.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

xjbaylor said:


> I would agree. It is amazing how solid it feels in response to rider input, while remaining relatively indifferent to trail input.


Eloquently stated!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Every time I see one of those frames... You little bastards aren't helping! Dammit, I need a 24 step program cause 12 ain't gonna gitter dun. ARRRRRRGGH!!

Annnd dat color in post #1. Not sure if it is Rootbeer or Garnet. Either way, that is a lovely bike in that color.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Supposedly it's dragon's blood. Closer to a garnet.

Having never killed a dragon I can't say for sure how accurate it is to real life.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

cassieno said:


> Supposedly it's dragon bloods. Closer to a garnet.
> 
> Having never killed a dragon I can't say for sure how accurate it is to real life.


Needless to say, I am highly into color for bikes cause bland just will not make the cut. The Prismatic line has some really awesome choices. Similarly, the color of your bike has 
such depth and richness that is sets it off! Tan walls would accent the wheels and frame handsomely, me thinks.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

cassieno said:


> Having never killed a dragon I can't say for sure how accurate it is to real life.


The real stuff doesn't have that deep sparkle, but the color is pretty accurate from my experience. Been a few years, but you never _truly_ forget it....


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)




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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

That is a smile factory, cassieno! Love what I see there, in the wild, with need of a bath when y'all return from what looks like a fun ass ride.
Finish has depth that is hard to duplicate. That color is just so freakin' awesome!


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## foot stool (Mar 26, 2009)

cassieno said:


> View attachment 1990880


What bottle cage is that? Looks like a bottle and cage system? I just put my money down on a Hummingbird. Still trying to pick the color. November delivery.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

stop it!
you guys are killing me :-(

does Neuhaus deliver to Switzerland?
That Dragon paint makes my pants get tight.....


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## foot stool (Mar 26, 2009)

cmg said:


> stop it!
> you guys are killing me :-(
> 
> does Neuhaus deliver to Switzerland?
> That Dragon paint makes my pants get tight.....


Email them. Nick is super responsive to email. Great to work with.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

foot stool said:


> What bottle cage is that? Looks like a bottle and cage system? I just put my money down on a Hummingbird. Still trying to pick the color. November delivery.


These are Fidlock bottles. I really like them from a "doesn't fall off the bike perspective", but they are a little difficult to get a drink from while biking hard. In an XC race I would probably use a normal bottle cage because the cap cover and the alignment of the base to bottle is a little fiddley.

But they have been excellent in keeping the bottle attached to bike through the rough stuff.

The good news about a November delivery is.....plenty of time to agonize over paint choices.


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

xjbaylor said:


> So happy to finally have my Hummingbird in hand! I took it for a shakedown ride this morning, so I don't have an extensive review, but I am incredibly happy so far. The frame feels more damped in the rear than my Stanton Sherpa, but feels just as solid when applying power. In the front of the bike I didn't really notice any difference in ride or feedback, but the geo is SO much better for me. Amazing how having 10 sizes to choose from instead of 2 can do that.
> 
> Things I love:
> 
> ...


How do you like the HB with the Enve fork?


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

allroads said:


> How do you like the HB with the Enve fork?


I still really just have a couple of shakedown rides on it, but so far it is a great combo. The combo feels balanced and just...right.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

xjbaylor said:


> I still really just have a couple of shakedown rides on it, but so far it is a great combo. The combo feels balanced and just...right.


Awesome! May it serve many years of great adventures.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Sunday morning ride in Marin


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

I might as well join this party…..

When my hummingbird was still nice.









After my hummingbird decided it wanted to fight a tree. 










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## coachxtaylor (Feb 13, 2020)

you call it a dent, i call it proprietary top tube damping characteristics


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

coachxtaylor said:


> you call it a dent, i call it proprietary top tube damping characteristics


I guess next time I should try to apply the dent in a more symmetrical manner left to right. This first iteration provides amazing stiffness in left turns but terrible stiffness in right turns. 


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

Little_twin said:


> I might as well join this party…..
> 
> When my hummingbird was still nice.
> 
> ...


Any chance of having the top tube replaced?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I think he is going to make it into a travel bike using Paragon Machine works Z couplers.






Z Couplers | Paragon Machine Works


Z Couplers by Paragon Machine Works




www.paragonmachineworks.com


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

cassieno said:


> I think he is going to make it into a travel bike using Paragon Machine works Z couplers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That will make a pretty cool travel bike. Have HB will travel.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

allroads said:


> Any chance of having the top tube replaced?


Cassieno nailed it, I’ll finally get the travel bike I never wanted. 


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Went to Tahoe this weekend. Did a 24 mile 3.7k feet ride up to Star lake and back. The elevation killed me. Hummingbird did amazing.

Once I turned around I came alive. Descending was a treat.
Huck to flat wasn't too bad.








Beautiful trails









Unfortunately, got smoked out today and had to head back early.


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## chafingdish (Aug 2, 2017)

I picked up my Hummingbird yesterday and took it on a short, mostly fire road ride this morning in Annadel state park in Santa Rosa,CA. I’m recovering from a foot injury so I was wearing skate shoes on flat pedals, and haven’t been on a hardtail in a few years, so the rockier descents were exciting—feet bouncing off the pedals etc. For all that, the bike was smooth. I forgot how fun it is to actually pick lines. Cant wait to get some spds on there! Here’s the build:

Frame: Nm Hummingbird XL in “Aqualust”
Fox 34 performance elite 120mm
Wheels: i9 Trail 280s
Tires: F Specialized Fastrak 2.4/R Renegade 2.4
Drivetrain: GX eagle everything, 175mm cranks.
Dropper: Oneup V2 210mm
Brakes: TRP Trail Evos
Rotors: Jagwire lr3 180/160

I bought this bike to use as an all-rounder—mixed terrain rides (hence the tires), bike packing, regular ole mountain biking, etc. And because, as a taller guy, the geo appealed to me. This is as slammed as I have ever had my seat post, and the fewest stem spacers. The bike looks and rides fantastic, Nick has been great to work with, as others have said. I sourced most of the parts, Nick made some great recommendations. So far I am very impressed with the TRPs.


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

xjbaylor said:


> So happy to finally have my Hummingbird in hand! I took it for a shakedown ride this morning, so I don't have an extensive review, but I am incredibly happy so far. The frame feels more damped in the rear than my Stanton Sherpa, but feels just as solid when applying power. In the front of the bike I didn't really notice any difference in ride or feedback, but the geo is SO much better for me. Amazing how having 10 sizes to choose from instead of 2 can do that.
> 
> Things I love:
> 
> ...


These things are looking really nice. Question on yours, what ebb bottom bracket was used to make this single speed?


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

SSsteel4life said:


> These things are looking really nice. Question on yours, what ebb bottom bracket was used to make this single speed?


I used the Oner from Squid Bikes, Nick recommended it, and it is working great.


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## islander (Jan 21, 2004)

chafingdish said:


> I bought this bike to use as an all-rounder—mixed terrain rides (hence the tires), bike packing, regular ole mountain biking, etc. And because, as a taller guy, the geo appealed to me. This is as slammed as I have ever had my seat post, and the fewest stem spacers.


I'm 6'1" and haven't used any spacers under the stem on my Solstice, and that's with a 20mm riser bar. The NMW frames have stack for days! I was able to fit a 210 dropper as well - amazing to see the seat tube accommodate these big droppers and a bottle cage. The paint Nick selects is really durable in my experience. Get ready for comments on the trail - never have I had some many people ask me about a bike and this is my 12th mtb in past 30yrs of riding trails.


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## chafingdish (Aug 2, 2017)

Have had a few more rides on the ‘bird and I am loving it. I cant recommend this frame enough for taller folks. I just rode my S5 Stumpjumper for the first time since I got the hummingbird and it felt all kinds of awkward: tons of headset spacers and the bars are still too low, the ett is too short, etc. If someone made a short travel full suspension bike with this geo I’d buy two of them.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Just have to keep pestering NMW for a full suspension bike


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

cassieno said:


> Just have to keep pestering NMW for a full suspension bike


I second this. Get to work Nick!


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## islander (Jan 21, 2004)

chafingdish said:


> Have had a few more rides on the ‘bird and I am loving it. I cant recommend this frame enough for taller folks. I just rode my S5 Stumpjumper for the first time since I got the hummingbird and it felt all kinds of awkward: tons of headset spacers and the bars are still too low, the ett is too short, etc. If someone made a short travel full suspension bike with this geo I’d buy two of them.


There's a lot to learn from this new generation 29er HT geo, and it gets even clearer when one goes back to older style bikes. My Solstice with the suggested-by-Nick 36mm fork (set to 130 travel) continues to show me a lot. How you use the travel is more important than amount of travel; clearance for 2.6 matters as does 200mm+ droppers. I haven't missed my FS bike with this setup and some core training. 

There's a lot of 'new' stuff out there from mtb makers. SRAM UDH, big tire clearance, 157mm rear spacing, stash boxes inside frames, T47 bottom brackets, clearance for two water bottles + long dropper etc. Only you can decide what matters to you, but so far, I see the features on the NMW frames as being something that actually helps.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

chafingdish said:


> Have had a few more rides on the ‘bird and I am loving it. I cant recommend this frame enough for taller folks. I just rode my S5 Stumpjumper for the first time since I got the hummingbird and it felt all kinds of awkward: tons of headset spacers and the bars are still too low, the ett is too short, etc. If someone made a short travel full suspension bike with this geo I’d buy two of them.


I think the most frustrating thing about finally finding a bike that fit me, was realizing all the time and money spent on previous bikes that, knowing what I know now....were way too small for me. Some bike designers are starting to come around on actually adjusting geo as the sizes change, and Nick is one of them. 

I remember buying an older Surly Karate Monkey (2007?), at that time an XL was considered a 22" frame (it was a pretty big bike for that era). The shop owner, who had been selling bikes for decades, told me that bike was wayyyyy to big for me, and I almost believed him. But I bought it and rode it, and it just felt so right. I sold that bike to fund some other purchase, and always remembered how good it felt to ride that big steel bike. I am glad that memory didn't fade, because the bike I currently ride is considered an XXL, and the designer told me it would be too big for me, but I ignored him. He couldn't have been more wrong.


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## chafingdish (Aug 2, 2017)

jonshonda said:


> I think the most frustrating thing about finally finding a bike that fit me, was realizing all the time and money spent on previous bikes that, knowing what I know now....were way too small for me. Some bike designers are starting to come around on actually adjusting geo as the sizes change, and Nick is one of them.
> 
> I remember buying an older Surly Karate Monkey (2007?), at that time an XL was considered a 22" frame (it was a pretty big bike for that era). The shop owner, who had been selling bikes for decades, told me that bike was wayyyyy to big for me, and I almost believed him. But I bought it and rode it, and it just felt so right. I sold that bike to fund some other purchase, and always remembered how good it felt to ride that big steel bike. I am glad that memory didn't fade, because the bike I currently ride is considered an XXL, and the designer told me it would be too big for me, but I ignored him. He couldn't have been more wrong.


Yeah my next FS bike will be a XXL with size appropriate chainstay length (and stack, of course).


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Put flat pedals on to remind myself how to properly bunny hop and found a bench to dangle my bike off of


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

cassieno said:


> Put flat pedals on to remind myself how to properly bunny hop and found a bench to dangle my bike off of
> 
> View attachment 1996490


Looks like you bumped into someone on the trail with a non standard Hummingbird as well. 


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

A few more rides on the HB, and I am liking it more each ride. Added a 35mm rise bar, as I was having a little bit of hand numbness on really rough trails. The Enve fork is great, but not as forgiving as my past steel forks. 

I was surprised to learn that I PR'ed my last lap of a short local loop. I have ridden numerous geared FS bikes, hard tails, and dozens of laps on my previous SS. I have ridden when in better shape, and with more time on that trail. I have ridden it in better conditions. But I still managed to PR on a rigid SS that I have less than 150 miles on. I'll take that any day!


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

Here is a better look at the bike Cassieno posted last weekend. This is a Hummingbird 27.5+ 










Some bottle bracket detail. This little piece tips the bottle forward to create more bottle clearance especially on smaller frames, it allows for longer dropper post insertion by keeping the upper boss out of the seat tube, and can double as a tool/tube strap mount if not being used for a bottle. 











Plenty of clearance for the 27.5x2.8 Nobby Nic on an i40 rim with a 34t chainring and 55mm chainline. 











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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

Little_twin said:


> Here is a better look at the bike Cassieno posted last weekend. This is a Hummingbird 27.5+
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is another beautiful looking frame. The seat tube bottle mount is such a smart idea. What size is this one?


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

allroads said:


> That is another beautiful looking frame. The seat tube bottle mount is such a smart idea. What size is this one?


This is effectively an ML+


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

Yesterday was an amazing day, the Marin County Bicycle Coalition hosted the 4th Adventure Revival. Lots of Neuhaus bikes in attendance, in this picture there are two early Hummingbird prototypes and a current XXS Hummingbird. The route was a solid mix of Marin County goods covering 48 miles and 6300’ feet of elevation gain. 











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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

It's raining! I get to pretend I live in the PNW. Having no pivots is great for wet rides. No fender and foggy glasses.... not so much.

This bike continues to impress me with how predictable and capable it is in all conditions.


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

New Hummingbird. I have only had a chance for a couple of local shakedown rides thus far, but I can say we are getting along swimmingly.


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## LezRide (Sep 6, 2019)

🔥


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

^ I had to quit after only 3 minutes. He's still so clueless about everything he's talking about. He literally doesn't understand frame construction or the bike industry. It's painful. He's insulting Nick's work at every turn and has *no freaking clue* what he's looking at or what he's talking about! How does this guy have a platform?


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## katsup (Jun 28, 2016)

*OneSpeed* said:


> ^ I had to quit after only 3 minutes. He's still so clueless about everything he's talking about. He literally doesn't understand frame construction or the bike industry. It's painful. He's insulting Nick's work at every turn and has *no freaking clue* what he's looking at or what he's talking about! How does this guy have a platform?


Just attacking his video without any explanation of where he is wrong?

Steve (hard tail party) talks with bike designers often, including Nick before he sent Steve the frame. It also sounds like he is going to have Nick on the next ride / review video, which he has done for other brands in past videos. He does "dumb" things down for the average person to understand, maybe that is what you don't like.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

*OneSpeed* said:


> ^ I had to quit after only 3 minutes. He's still so clueless about everything he's talking about. He literally doesn't understand frame construction or the bike industry. It's painful. He's insulting Nick's work at every turn and has *no freaking clue* what he's looking at or what he's talking about! How does this guy have a platform?


I'll have to go back and watch that again. I didn't really get that this morning.. it was pre-coffee though and I was working, so who knows. The Neuhaus pronunciation bugs me, but I get it.


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## chafingdish (Aug 2, 2017)

I have a hummingbird. I ride it all over the place. Its awesome. Paint looks great. Subscribe to my patreon.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Sorta puts it in layman’s terms.


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## Jake From State Farm (Oct 1, 2021)

sharp looking frame


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

A brief word about HTP...fwiw, ymmv, etc. etc. etc...I find the reviews informative and helpful, especially since so few hardtails are available in bike shops. The reviews provide an assessment and some comparative information.

...and now back to our regularly scheduled programming. Urban playground.








Hi


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

*OneSpeed* said:


> ^ I had to quit after only 3 minutes. He's still so clueless about everything he's talking about. He literally doesn't understand frame construction or the bike industry. It's painful. He's insulting Nick's work at every turn and has *no freaking clue* what he's looking at or what he's talking about! How does this guy have a platform?


How exactly did he insult Nick? I thought the only thing Steve seemed to slightly criticize was the paint job on the rear end and the name/logo sticker. What else didn't he like?? I rode with Steve the day he built this bike up, and my impression was that he loved it. I'll be curious to see the review video when it comes out.
Also, the builders / manufacturers don't seem to share your opinion of him being "clueless" as they keep sending him frames...


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

cassieno said:


> I get to pretend I live in the PNW.


So, blown-out moondust trails?

We had the driest summer on record up here. But, the spring and early summer were a washout.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

Curveball said:


> So, blown-out moondust trails?
> 
> We had the driest summer on record up here. But, the spring and early summer were a washout.


Shhhh! If all us Californians find out it doesn’t rain up there 24/7 you’ll be even more inundated with new residents than you are now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

*OneSpeed* said:


> ^ I had to quit after only 3 minutes. He's still so clueless about everything he's talking about. He literally doesn't understand frame construction or the bike industry. It's painful. He's insulting Nick's work at every turn and has *no freaking clue* what he's looking at or what he's talking about! How does this guy have a platform?


are you sure you watched the same vid l did?


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

This frame has me interested, got a Radimus last year, coming fom EBB, my first sliders and not in love more like hate. The T47 BB seems to open the EBB possibility up and similar geo available which i do love.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

socal_jack said:


> This frame has me interested, got a Radimus last year, coming fom EBB, my first sliders and not in love more like hate. The T47 BB seems to open the EBB possibility up and similar geo available which i do love.


PF30 is also an option on Hummingbirds, there are good eccentric bb option for that as well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Little_twin said:


> PF30 is also an option on Hummingbirds, there are good eccentric bb option for that as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nice, my EBBs have been Niners and they work great.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Is the HTA listed for the Hummingbird at sag?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

It is not. Everything is unsagged.


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

First authentic ride.
Lake Chabot, Ca
Not technical, lots of ups/downs, fireroad, some singletrack, dust over hard clay, rocks and RUTS.

The Hummingbird is a great climber. Hooks up well and nimble so it was easy to adjust my line. Smooth and compliant everywhere else and pretty fast on the downs.


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## Ebergercb (4 mo ago)

I’m getting my car serviced, so decided to spend the time doing math. I’ve been looking at the Stanton Sherpa, but it’s stack is a bit lower than my current hardtail (27.5 NS Eccentric) that I really like. I started looking at the Hummingbird, which has a higher stack. I understand that the Hummingbird geometry numbers are unsagged, while Stanton posts their number sagged. So, I did some geometry and here’s what I get for the Hummingbird that seems my size:
Posted:
Reach: 444, Stack: 639, BB drop: 56, HT:66.5 deg, ST 75 deg 
Adjusted: 
Reach: 459, Stack: 628, BB drop: 66, HT: 68 deg, ST: 76.5 deg

Stanton posted (sagged):
Reach: 441, Stack: 600, BB drop: 56, HT: 67 deg, ST: 75.5 deg

so, it seems that the Neuhaus has more each and stack, but is steeper when compared apples to apples. It would be fun to compare these back to back. Since I can’t do that, it will probably come down to what paint job I want.


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## Ebergercb (4 mo ago)

So, this is why you should double-check your work. I got home and plugged everything into a spreadsheet. I must have had a fat finger in the waiting room at the dealer. Here’s the correct numbers:

Reach: 461, Stack: 627, BB drop: 67.6, HT: 68.1, ST: 76.6


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Go here. Geometry Geeks


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

Ebergercb said:


> I’m getting my car serviced, so decided to spend the time doing math. I’ve been looking at the Stanton Sherpa, but it’s stack is a bit lower than my current hardtail (27.5 NS Eccentric) that I really like. I started looking at the Hummingbird, which has a higher stack. I understand that the Hummingbird geometry numbers are unsagged, while Stanton posts their number sagged. So, I did some geometry and here’s what I get for the Hummingbird that seems my size:
> Posted:
> Reach: 444, Stack: 639, BB drop: 56, HT:66.5 deg, ST 75 deg
> Adjusted:
> ...


The Hummingbird comes in almost any color you want. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

HTP youtube review is on line. Steve has some serious high marks for the H-Bird. I'm a bigger rider at 210#. There was something mentioned about possible excessive frame flex for heavier riders.
I'm going to e mail Neuhaus and inquire about it.


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

jiggerjake said:


> HTP youtube review is on line. Steve has some serious high marks for the H-Bird. I'm a bigger rider at 210#. There was something mentioned about possible excessive frame flex for heavier riders.
> I'm going to e mail Neuhaus and inquire about it.


Read the comments on the YT video; This is addressed by both Steve in a direct quote from Nick @ Neuhaus, as well as a 200lb+ Hummingbird owner.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I weigh 200#, and easily 210# riding when I am all geared up (pack and two bottles) on the bike. It's not a concern. Seems like Steve made that comment more based on his experience with mass produced bikes where they don't change spec between sizes.


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks guys for clearing that up.I had not read the comments :/


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## chafingdish (Aug 2, 2017)

Chiming in at 220#, no problems with flex.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Ebergercb said:


> ...so, it seems that the Neuhaus has more each and stack, but is steeper when compared apples to apples. It would be fun to compare these back to back. Since I can’t do that, it will probably come down to what paint job I want.


I owned both back to back, and I can say the Sherpa is a fantastic bike, but mine just didn't fit me that well. I worked with Nick and got one of the first Hummingbirds. The best way I can describe it is a better fitting, better riding Sherpa. The differences aren't huge when it comes to ride quality, but the rear of the Hummingbird feels like you are running slightly less pressure in your tires, it is just subtly more supple. The geo difference are massive in real life. The Sherpa stack was shorter than I would prefer, especially running a rigid fork, and sizing up would preclude me from using even a 150mm dropper. The geo was just....weird. 

Regarding the head angle, they feel about the same. The better geo makes the Hummingbird feel really stable to me, where the Sherpa I felt like I was getting thrown over the front wheel more often. Even with a 60mm stem I still feel more behind the axle, but the wheelbase doesn't feel significantly longer. 

Long story short, I think the Hummingbird is just about perfect for me, and I would imagine that it would be perfect for most people who aren't riding super steep terrain every day.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

xjbaylor said:


> Long story short, I think the Hummingbird is just about perfect for me, and I would imagine that it would be perfect for most people who aren't riding super steep terrain every day.


Luckily, there is a Solstice 29 to ride if you want something for the super steeps. It's a hoot and a ton of fun.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

Cassieno nailed it, the Solstice 29 has the same DNA as the Hummingbird in a slightly different package.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Little_twin said:


> Cassieno nailed it, the Solstice 29 has the same DNA as the Hummingbird in a slightly different package.


Absolutely agree!


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## Ebergercb (4 mo ago)

xjbaylor said:


> I owned both back to back, and I can say the Sherpa is a fantastic bike, but mine just didn't fit me that well. I worked with Nick and got one of the first Hummingbirds. The best way I can describe it is a better fitting, better riding Sherpa. The differences aren't huge when it comes to ride quality, but the rear of the Hummingbird feels like you are running slightly less pressure in your tires, it is just subtly more supple. The geo difference are massive in real life. The Sherpa stack was shorter than I would prefer, especially running a rigid fork, and sizing up would preclude me from using even a 150mm dropper. The geo was just....weird.
> 
> Regarding the head angle, they feel about the same. The better geo makes the Hummingbird feel really stable to me, where the Sherpa I felt like I was getting thrown over the front wheel more often. Even with a 60mm stem I still feel more behind the axle, but the wheelbase doesn't feel significantly longer.
> 
> Long story short, I think the Hummingbird is just about perfect for me, and I would imagine that it would be perfect for most people who aren't riding super steep terrain every day.


thanks - that was my fear looking at the numbers. I have a 7 year old 27.5 hardtail with a relatively short reach and high stack that is a super fun bike. It seemed like I would need a stack of spacers and a riser bar to get the bars on the Sherpa where I want them.

The Hummingbird seems closer in fit than the Sherpa.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Ebergercb said:


> thanks - that was my fear looking at the numbers. I have a 7 year old 27.5 hardtail with a relatively short reach and high stack that is a super fun bike. It seemed like I would need a stack of spacers and a riser bar to get the bars on the Sherpa where I want them.
> 
> The Hummingbird seems closer in fit than the Sherpa.


Based on that I agree, the Sherpa has a fairly low front end, which feels great on XC tracks, but if you like short reach and high stack it probably isn't for you. Gorgeous paint though.


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## foot stool (Mar 26, 2009)

Received my NMW Hummingbird last week from Nick. It is everything I hoped for in the bike. Smooth is the first thing that came into my mind the first 30 seconds on trail. I love it. Size M. Color: Frosted Tanzanite


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## foot stool (Mar 26, 2009)

Little_twin said:


> The Hummingbird comes in almost any color you want.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are something like 6,000 choices of color to choose from.  go to prismatic powders web page and have a look at all the options.


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

foot stool said:


> There are something like 6,000 choices of color to choose from.  go to prismatic powders web page and have a look at all the options.


That is so true. I found the “perfect” shade of gray on prismatic.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

I noticed the NMW page looks recently updated for 2023 Hummingbird under spec shows steel or titanium.


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

socal_jack said:


> I noticed the NMW page looks recently updated for 2023 Hummingbird under spec shows steel or titanium.


Look to be some slight geo changes as well.


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## natzoo (Jan 21, 2009)

Wow you guys are sharp! We did lightly tweak the geo on the Hummingbird for 2023

Here were the changes:

We added an XXS (27.5 code-named Pebble)
We added a XXL (code-named Boulder)
S and M got tweaked to improve standover and fit better
Shorter ST
Slightly slacker STA
Shorter CS to improve weight balance

All seat angles got relaxed ~.5deg to improve comfort on long traverses and rolling terrain
Metal headtube badges!
If you want to retrofit your bike, we can make it happen, just talk to Nick.

The additional sizes are part of our effort to create an inclusive sizing range. We now have 16 different sizes! If you fall out of this size range, we will design a bike for you, no extra charge.

Every size has small steps in between, making it very easy to find a bike that fits without making any compromises.
We modeled and tweaked every single size to maintain a neutral, confident position
We ran like 50 FEA simulations to characterize frame stiffness and spec tubing diameters for each size. We tested them IRL with riders of all sizes (5'3 to 6'6)
Size-specific geometry to maintain proper riding characteristics









10 years of engineering school, just to make pretty pictures




























A medium with >170mm dropper clearance and two full-size bottles? Someone pinch me










XXS 27.5 build. Tiny bike with room for two bottles? Suck it Santa Cruz Chameleon









Me (6'1) being "big daddy-ied" by an XXL prototype









Neuhaus Metal Headtube Badge Works


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## Jake From State Farm (Oct 1, 2021)

A proper steel whip deserves a badge, nicely finished!


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Such a great bike to travel with because it can handle so much.


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## Ebergercb (4 mo ago)

cassieno said:


> Such a great bike to travel with because it can handle so much.
> View attachment 2005032


Hey! That is exactly one of the rides that gets me thinking about a bike like this. Camuesa is fun.


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## bigE29er (Jul 26, 2019)

Tall Clyde question... how custom would Neuhaus Metal Works go? XXXL Solstice with a 140mm fork for a 6'8" 260lb Clyde rider?

On the XXL pink bike, how long is the head tube?


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

bigE29er said:


> Tall Clyde question... how custom would Neuhaus Metal Works go? XXXL Solstice with a 140mm fork for a 6'8" 260lb Clyde rider?
> 
> On the XXL pink bike, how long is the head tube?


As custom as is needed, the pink bike has a 165 headtube plus the 14mm lower headset cup. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Ebergercb said:


> Hey! That is exactly one of the rides that gets me thinking about a bike like this. Camuesa is fun.


Yeah, there is a ton in SB that's really fun for the HB. Maybe not Tunnel / Cold Springs. But, pretty much everything else (that's on trail forks). I'll have to branch out to a couple other loops next time I am down there.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Just saw this article posted about Neuhaus Metalworks. It's a good read. 









Neuhaus Metalworks: Additive Performance Bikes | Bike Gear Database


Neuhaus Metalworks is the moniker of Nick Neuhaus, a builder who creates some beautiful hardtails with the latest additive manufacturing techniques.



www.bikegeardatabase.com


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Swapped a few emails with Nick on sizing and titanium, tempting, was all set for steel.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

I stole a Hummingbird from [mention]cassieno [/mention]to take to San Diego last weekend for the Filthy 50 mtb race. It was fast, comfortable, and did some killer wheelies, now I just have to clean it up and get it back to him before the weekend. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

Another day with the Hummingbird in the neighborhood.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I got the metal HT badge put on. It's sweet!


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## gubbinalia (May 11, 2020)

cassieno said:


> I got the metal HT badge put on. It's sweet!


That's rad as hell! 

Are you still on the custom frame much (the green one with the Mezzer)? Or mostly Hummingbird?


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

cassieno said:


> I got the metal HT badge put on. It's sweet!
> View attachment 2010376


Is it my imagination or is the badge in a bronze tone? It looks great.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Badge is in a bronze tone. They are able to be powdered coated / cerokoted / left raw. 



gubbinalia said:


> That's rad as hell!
> 
> Are you still on the custom frame much (the green one with the Mezzer)? Or mostly Hummingbird?


Got an Enduro bike and stripped that frame for it. Most of all my biking time is spent on the Hummingbird. It's incredibly capable.


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## gubbinalia (May 11, 2020)

cassieno said:


> Got an Enduro bike and stripped that frame for it. Most of all my biking time is spent on the Hummingbird. It's incredibly capable.


The allure of suspension is too strong, I fear!

That's a glowing recommendation for the Hummingbird, though. I spent far too much time on my Chromag this season, which loves to point downhill but is about as nimble as a medium-sized aircraft carrier. Gotta get back to the light, sprightly XC hardtail game next year!


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

Here is one in black cerakote. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## islander (Jan 21, 2004)

Wow, great to hear all these updates at NMW. A slightly slacker seat angle is the only change I'd make if I had it to do again. Love the Solstice sensibilities and parts Nick suggested during my build process. Pretty amazing to see all these refinements from a small maker like this all whilst they crank out frame after frame.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

For those that read my initial review of the Hummingbird, I had only two nitpicking concerns. The decals weren't great for such a well thought out bike, and the dropper routing worked, but was frustrating to run in conjunction with an EBB.

Nick has gone above and beyond helping me deal with both, even though I didn't ask him to. Nick mailed out updated decals, and now has supplied the new HT badge. He also helped me secure an AXS dropper at an incredibly reasonable price. 

I have been floored by the support Nick has offered, and I cannot recommend the Hummingbird enough.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

xjbaylor said:


> For those that read my initial review of the Hummingbird, I had only two nitpicking concerns. The decals weren't great for such a well thought out bike, and the dropper routing worked, but was frustrating to run in conjunction with an EBB.
> 
> Nick has gone above and beyond helping me deal with both, even though I didn't ask him to. Nick mailed out updated decals, and now has supplied the new HT badge. He also helped me secure an AXS dropper at an incredibly reasonable price.
> 
> ...


The head badge looks great! For anyone that received a frame without a head badge, if you want one just shoot me an email and I can mail one out to you. 

Thanks to your feedback an update was made to further eliminate the possibility of interference issues on PF30 frames with eccentric bottom brackets. 

While we’re on the subject of dropper routing, a quick tip for anyone running a new housing, put a few drops of lube on the dropper port before inserting the housing or any time you need to adjust seat height. The ports are designed to actually seal, this creates some drag when pulling the housing through the port dry. 

-Nick


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Little_twin said:


> put a few drops of lube on the dropper port before inserting the housing or any time you need to adjust seat height. The ports are designed to actually seal, this creates some drag when pulling the housing through the port dry.


Ha, I can confirm that this makes a HUGE difference.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

Here is a recently delivered Hummingbird XL. 



























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

Little_twin said:


> Here is a recently delivered Hummingbird XL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What kind of cranks are those? Very clean looking!


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Engin Port Royal crankset








Engin Port Royal Crankset (Everything will ship around 1/14/2023) — Engin Cycles


The Port Royal Crankset is named for an infamously gnarly hill in Philly with a very classy name. Combining modern technology and standards with a timeless aesthetic, these cranks are light, strong, and sensible. Available with two different spindle lengths for boost or non-boost setups. Compatible




engincycles.com


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Took my HB on a long gravel ride while dropping secret trails.

I am continually impressed with how well and intuitively this bike handles.


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

So has anyone taken delivery of a Ti frame Hummingbird yet ? Looking forward to some rider thoughts/reviews.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I rode Nick's personal Ti HB. It was excellent. Felt like a HB with the magic of Ti. Compared to my steel it felt like it "wanted" to be pedaled harder.

It didn't make me want to throw away (😁) my steel bike. It just took the HB and Ti-ed. The frame weight is also significantly lighter.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

cassieno said:


> I rode Nick's personal Ti HB. It was excellent. Felt like a HB with the magic of Ti. Compared to my steel it felt like it "wanted" to be pedaled harder.
> 
> It didn't make me want to throw away (😁) my steel bike for it. It just took the HB and Ti-ed. The frame weight is also significantly lighter.
> 
> View attachment 2014688


I think just that shot alone pushed me over the edge, been so busy need to start ordering


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Another for your viewing pleasure


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Here's another


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

And another! Freshly unmasked, still needs a little clean up. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Little_twin said:


> And another! Freshly unmasked, still needs a little clean up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is this the bead blast finish?


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

jiggerjake said:


> Is this the bead blast finish?


This is Cerakote/bead blast. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## leejohnh22 (Mar 23, 2020)

Little_twin said:


> And another! Freshly unmasked, still needs a little clean up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks awesome! Any plans for a Ti Solstice? Also can we get an idea of pricing?


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

leejohnh22 said:


> Looks awesome! Any plans for a Ti Solstice? Also can we get an idea of pricing?


Thanks!

Currently there are no plans to do a Titanium Solstice. 

The pricing hasn’t been finalized yet but it will be around $4200 for a brushed or bead blasted finish with the cerakote option having a small markup. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## coachxtaylor (Feb 13, 2020)

are the dropouts on that frame suited for a sram udh?


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

coachxtaylor said:


> are the dropouts on that frame suited for a sram udh?


They are not. To fully conform to the UDH standard a machined metal dropout has to be fairly large an unsightly. It also requires an asymmetrical seat stay configuration that drastically reduces heel clearance around the dropout. 

It’s also worth noting that all titanium frames will come with sliding dropouts. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

What would be the CS lengths on the TI?


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

Funoutside said:


> What would be the CS lengths on the TI?


Hummingbird frames with sliders in ti and steel have a 420-440 range. Tire clearance is 29x2.6 max in any position. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Little_twin said:


> It’s also worth noting that all titanium frames will come with sliding dropouts.


Damn, back to steel I guess.


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## coachxtaylor (Feb 13, 2020)

socal_jack said:


> Damn, back to steel I guess.


sorry i’m a complete noob, but why are sliders a deal breaker? do they add a level of complexity that can’t be ignored? genuinely curious as i’ve never ridden a bike with sliders.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

No. Sliders are great. Any issues seem to be user error. I have run Paragon sliders on a ton of different bikes and never had any issues with the mechanism. 

They make setting up single speed dead simple and allow you to adjust the rear end to your preferred length.

Make sure everything is torqued correctly and you will never have an issue.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

cassieno said:


> No. Sliders are great. Any issues seem to be user error. I have run Paragon sliders on a ton of different bikes and never had any issues with the mechanism.
> 
> They make setting up single speed dead simple and allow you to adjust the rear end to your preferred length.
> 
> Make sure everything is torqued correctly and you will never have an issue.


Same user error could be said of people that dont like EBBs, but theres awide variation in actual EBB shells and adapters.

Coming from EBBs, sliders suck. Not a matter of user error. Basically 6 screws versus 2 to make adjustments but sliders are inherently more prone to movement and can be fiddly. A 10 minute cog change with EBB can be quite a bit more especially if tension screws get jammed.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

coachxtaylor said:


> sorry i’m a complete noob, but why are sliders a deal breaker? do they add a level of complexity that can’t be ignored? genuinely curious as i’ve never ridden a bike with sliders.


Each slider can move indepently, versus EBB where axle and BB are fixed in aligment and you just rotate EBB to adjust length, sliders need to fiddle with both sides plus all the screws. The adhustment on sliders is 6 screws versus 2 for EBB. Had to loctite everything to keep from moving plus crazy torque, which further inhibits changes say for cog or new chain.

Already have a Ti with sliders, was going to replace it no need to now.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

What type of terrain do you normally ride? I have never had that many issues with sliders. Once I didn't tighten down a side and the screw and one slider shifted on me. 

But that was a one time thing. 

I can see all the same complaints with an EBB. But I'll throw two more in there (for an EBB) has to play nicely with the crank or adjustments can be frustrating. Changes BB height, effective seat tube angle, and reach depending on your adjustments to the EBB. 

Note, I don't actually think that's an actual problem with EBB's. Just like I don't think your problems with sliders are the average problem.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

socal_jack said:


> Each slider can move indepently, versus EBB where axle and BB are fixed in aligment and you just rotate EBB to adjust length, sliders need to fiddle with both sides plus all the screws. The adhustment on sliders is 6 screws versus 2 for EBB. Had to loctite everything to keep from moving plus crazy torque, which further inhibits changes say for cog or new chain.
> 
> Already have a Ti with sliders, was going to replace it no need to now.


This has not been my experience either. Mine are simple to use, and stay put with no need for loctite. Just grease the threads of the bolts. I've had many frames with them, still do. It's my favorite tensioning method and I look for it on any potential new frame purchase. 

Like you said, maybe not all sliders are created equal (?), but I've never come across a bad one.

Hands down my least favorite tensioning method is Paragon swingers, terrible SS setup. At this point I think I'd rather have an EBB. (did I just say that out loud?!)


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## JasonScottCarter (Mar 23, 2006)

Can't wait to take delivery of my Hummingbird in the spring.


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## tols (Jun 24, 2014)

jiggerjake said:


> View attachment 2014883
> 
> Here's another


Maybe the most beautiful frame I’ve ever seen. Congratulations.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Wait until you see the finished product. I have seen a couple teaser shots. It looks sweet.


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## JasonScottCarter (Mar 23, 2006)

Probably the most stoked I have been while waiting for a bike. The countless paint options was hard to pick.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> This has not been my experience either. Mine are simple to use, and stay put with no need for loctite. Just grease the threads of the bolts. I've had many frames with them, still do. It's my favorite tensioning method and I look for it on any potential new frame purchase.
> 
> Like you said, maybe not all sliders are created equal (?), but I've never come across a bad one.
> 
> Hands down my least favorite tensioning method is Paragon swingers, terrible SS setup. At this point I think I'd rather have an EBB. (did I just say that out loud?!)


Maybe its the flexiness of Ti under clyde weight and torque but any ride past 5 miles or so and everything was loose without loctite including thru axle despite torquing to max NM. Now have a procedure but still 3 degrees of freedom(rotational in x & y dimensions plus translational in x) versus just translational in x and I dont need a procedure. 

It could be steel and sliders is the sh!t, but not Ti for me. Torqued sliders so hard I got a bit of galvanic corrosion despite lube, pulled some annodization off Al pieces last time I moved for cog changed.

Anyway steel is still good to me(maybe more sure footed in rock gardens) it'll just replace my Ros9/+ bikes with one bike.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

cassieno said:


> What type of terrain do you normally ride? I have never had that many issues with sliders. Once I didn't tighten down a side and the screw and one slider shifted on me.
> 
> But that was a one time thing.
> 
> ...


Just riding normal SoCal stuff, but the chunky rides(about half the time) especially knocked **** loose without loctite. I was/am even using Paragon axle with allen wrench on opposite side to torque the crap out of it. Maybe Ti issue, dropouts and Al parts are all PMW.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I've owned a bunch of frames with sliding dropouts and after rocky trails, jumping, trials moves, etc, _never_ had one slip. None of them were even genuine PMW sliders. 180 pound geared up.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

No issues with sliders across 5 bikes with them and many rough miles. None of them were Ti. They were all steel. I don't use loctite or anything like that.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Nick posted a built Ti bike on his Instagram. It looks so sweet. Bead blasted rear / cerokote front.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

The Hummingbird is officially Hardtail Party’s hardtail of the year!


































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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Little_twin said:


> The Hummingbird is officially Hardtail Party’s hardtail of the year!


This is the least surprising news for anyone that has ridden one, but congratulations!


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Is the geo numbers sagged or unsagged?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Unsagged


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Wet fireroad ride to welcome the new year on my Neuhaus old prototype (Hummingbird was built based off of what was learned with this bike). Prismatic Universe is one of the coolest powder coats around.


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## chafingdish (Aug 2, 2017)

Stuck to the pavement in very wet Sonoma County. Happy new year.


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

cassieno said:


> Wet fireroad ride to welcome the new year in my Hummingbird Prototype. Prismatic Universe is one of the coolest powder coats around.
> 
> View attachment 2016130


Nice looking ‘bird. Could you go into a little detail about this build?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I should have made that clear. This is an old prototype. It pre-dates the Hummingbird. 

Nick and Daniel were interested in testing a few ideas (3D printed udh, flatmount, confirming geometry ideas) in late 2021. And they built a few prototypes to test those out.

I used this bird as my XC race bike for 2022. I used it for gravel races through 8 hour mtb races.

However, it leans towards the flat bar gravel bike side (intentionally), so I put a rigid fork on it to lean into that side. I will be using my Hummingbird as my XC race bike for 2023. 

















Hummingbird exploring blue and black trails in Santa Barbara.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

cassieno said:


> However, it leans towards the flat bar gravel bike side (intentionally), so I put a rigid fork on it to lean into that side. I will be using my Hummingbird as my XC race bike for 2023.


Sounds like what I am looking for. What is the geo differences between yours & the Hummingbird? I take clearance is the same at 29x2.5(2.6?)


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

It's mostly just smaller with a lower bb height. Sizing down, rigid fork and running a longer stem on a Hummingbird would be very similar.


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## JasonScottCarter (Mar 23, 2006)

The powder coat options are plentiful. That one is nice. I hope I picked something unique. Will share when I eventually take delivery of mine. 

Nick didn't mention but assume there is an upcharge for some of the more expensive paint options. I guess the one I picked was within the price range normally picked.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Yep, just depends on the powder picked. Vast majority there is no up charge. But there are a couple that are crazy expensive / once you get into fades.


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## JasonScottCarter (Mar 23, 2006)

Just noticed today, Nick has T-shirts and socks up for order as well via the store section of the website.


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## SpotRockerFan (Feb 15, 2021)

What kind of steel? 4130 or 853? Or ?


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

SpotRockerFan said:


> What kind of steel? 4130 or 853? Or ?


853 is just Reynolds brand of air hardened steel. Air hardened tubes are more resistant to denting but air hardening doesn’t necessarily mean that a tube or frame built with it will be more resistant to failures. Neuhaus frames are made with a mix of heat treated 4130 and air hardened 4130. 


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I don't have the funds or the need for a Hummingbird, but I still want one very badly.


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## JasonScottCarter (Mar 23, 2006)

Curveball said:


> I don't have the funds or the need for a Hummingbird, but I still want one very badly.


Funds are overrated. Go into debt. It's the American dream. J/K


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Curveball said:


> I don't have the funds or the need for a Hummingbird, but I still want one very badly.


This is smart. Don't buy things you can't afford. Millions of stupid people do this every day and then wonder why they can't afford an emergency or retire. Let a rad bike like the Hummingbird be your motivation to keep working for that elusive dollar!


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

mack_turtle said:


> This is smart. Don't buy things you can't afford. Millions of stupid people do this every day and then wonder why they can't afford an emergency or retire. Let a rad bike like the Hummingbird be your motivation to keep working for that elusive dollar!





Curveball said:


> I don't have the funds or the need for a Hummingbird, but I still want one very badly.


FWIW, I can say with confidence that, for me, the Hummingbird was well worth the wait and necessary economic planning. I see it as a long term investment.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

mack_turtle said:


> This is smart. Don't buy things you can't afford. Millions of stupid people do this every day and then wonder why they can't afford an emergency or retire. Let a rad bike like the Hummingbird be your motivation to keep working for that elusive dollar!


Yeah, I kind of misspoke there. It's not that I don't have the funds so much as that emergency/retirement considerations take a bigger priority. When it comes to bikes, my FS enduro bike really gets the priority for most of my riding. My hardtail is for enjoying the easier trails and is less of a priority. But damn, that Hummingbird looks like an amazing bike.


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

Just returned from NMW with a metal headbadge for my Hummingbird. I almost wrote metalhead badge. Love it.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

allroads said:


> View attachment 2016982
> 
> Just returned from NMW with a metal headbadge for my Hummingbird. I almost wrote metalhead badge. Love it.


Looks great!


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## JasonScottCarter (Mar 23, 2006)

allroads said:


> View attachment 2016982
> 
> Just returned from NMW with a metal headbadge for my Hummingbird. I almost wrote metalhead badge. Love it.


Are the metal headbadges standard now?


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## allroads (Feb 24, 2004)

JasonScottCarter said:


> Are the metal headbadges standard now?


Yes, I believe all frames now come with the metal head badge as standard.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

JasonScottCarter said:


> Are the metal headbadges standard now?


Every frame comes with a metal head badge. The standard finish is brushed stainless but black is available if requested. 


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## JasonScottCarter (Mar 23, 2006)

Little_twin said:


> Every frame comes with a metal head badge. The standard finish is brushed stainless but black is available if requested.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good to know. I will request the black because it will go better with the paint I picked.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Bikegear database posted up a introduction to the Hummingbird ti with some really sweet pictures:








Neuhaus Metalworks Ti Hummingbird | Bike Gear Database


In the coming months, Neuhaus Metalworks will be releasing an all-new titanium Hummingbird. We were lucky to get a peek and ask some questions.



www.bikegeardatabase.com


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