# Trailcraft vs Spawn vs Cleary



## MCM990 (Jul 31, 2006)

Been doing a ton of research here and have narrowed the search for my son's new bike to three.

My son has had two other spawn cycles bikes and is currently riding their 20" bike and we have nothing but praise and love for what those bikes have allowed him to do on trail. My son is a pretty avid mountain biker and has been riding cross country single track trails mostly in the Minnesota area since he could push a strider. 

Here are the candidates: 

1. Spawn Shojo $1100 - weighing somewhere around 25 pounds I believe looks like nice quality and decent weight. Quite honestly this was what I was going to go with but it seems like the quality kids bike market has gotten much better in the past years. 

2. Pineridge 24 $1800 - super top shelf components and under 22 pounds with the suspension fork look great. The price is definitely on the high side but this bike really looks impressive.

3. Cleary Meerkat $650 - can't beat that price and its simplicity has definitely kept the weight down around 24 pounds. 

Weight is an important factor and keeping it as low as reasonably possible is high on my list. The spawn is a little weighty and I wish they offered the bike with a rigid fork to cut weight, cost, and complexity. 

Front suspension is not a requirement for the trails around here and preferred not to have one unless it is truly good.

If cost were no issue I would order the pineridge with the Ti fork and have a bike under 20 pounds in a heart beat but the cleary seems to get in the same weight range, all be it, with much less high end components, but it looks like it would be a great platform to drop $400-500 in to upgrade and drop even more weight.

As it stands right now I am either in the meerkat with nice upgrade boat or just going to go for it and get the pineridge. 

Could some sensible upgrades get the meerkat most of the way to being as good as the pineridge while saving some $$? What might some of those be? Wheelset etc. drivetrain upgrade, etc.

Any thoughts or comments would be much appreciated!

Help!!!


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

I don't have experience with any of these bikes... But since I just bough a 24" and and XS 27.5, I did get a look at them. Trail craft Pineridge was the bike I would I've like to buy. The price is higher but I wouldn't make a single change to this bike. Since I'm in Canada, it was 30% more for exchange rate and even more with duty and shipping. I bough their crankset and Ginger was fast to answer my questions regarding chainline, etc

In your case, since you don't want a suspension fork, why pay for it and drag the weight? Seeing picture of the Cleary in the Custom cleary build thread, it seems like a really decent bike to build exactly what you want for your kid. You'll end up with a lighter bike at a lower cost...


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## MCM990 (Jul 31, 2006)

Thanks for the comments @lewisQC, the trailcraft really is impressive... I have seen some custom cleary builds and they look really nice. 

Imagine the cleary with the trailcraft wheelset and a few other thoughtful weight conscious upgrades....


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## pott0120 (May 10, 2016)

I am in a very similiar situation in regards to deciding how to cost effectively get my son a nice bike. I agree the trailcraft looks like a great bike but my CFO said that is insane price to spend on a bike. My perspective of the value a quality bike will bring for my son is different than hers.

I'm leaning toward a Meerkat based on price ($599 currently) and purchasing the trailcraft wheel set ($389). Tubeless tires are really important to me since flats are common in my area (Salt Lake). I want to upgrade the fork, tires, and drive train but that can come later. It will be much easier to get the CFO to agree on small upgrades later.

If anyone has other perspectives or ideas. I need to stay under $1000 on the intial purchase.


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## MCM990 (Jul 31, 2006)

The cleary with the trailcraft wheelset slots in around 1k which would be an amazing starting point. I think another couple hundred to upgrade drivetrain and get away from the thumb shifter would be important too...

With all that being said, with every upgrade you start creeping closer and closer to the trailcraft that is nearly perfect straight out of the box.... ugggggg!!!!


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## bpierro (Nov 3, 2007)

I agree. The options for kids bikes has gotten way way better recently. Which is great any way you go. 

Ive been looking at these bikes myself as I have a 5 year old daughter that will be moving up soon. At least in my head anyway. Never hurts to look! Your son is probably much more serious a rider but as an MTB dad I want my daughter to have fun and really enjoy riding and that means a good bike. Same as when buying as an adult really! Never fun on a tank at any age.

Im leaning toward the Trailcraft bikes. They are just amazingly specced especially if you are looking for an already serious rider that loves the sport. You want to encourage that. Get him something nice. They focus on MTB and what you really need to mountain bike and do that right. Its not just "kids bikes" they seem to be focused on REAL kids MOUNTAIN bikes. I like that.

The Trailcraft bikes are also from a small company, which I love. People that got into it because of their love of MTBing. I like to reward that plus they are just really great well thought out bikes. You even have a super high end option if your budget allows!

Dont get me wrong. The other options you are looking at are great too. It makes for a tough decision. But I just like the look, the spec and the company with Trailcraft. Often the way I choose my own bikes too. I try to support companies with my dollars that bring something more than just a great bike to the table. Just my thought there of course.

Best thing you can do if you have questions is get in touch. Ask what they can do for you and maybe even get to know the company a bit. They might even have options you dont see on the website. Give Trailcraft a call if you want to know more and see if they can get something exactly like what you are searching for. 

Good luck!


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

MCM990 said:


> The cleary with the trailcraft wheelset slots in around 1k which would be an amazing starting point. I think another couple hundred to upgrade drivetrain and get away from the thumb shifter would be important too...
> 
> With all that being said, with every upgrade you start creeping closer and closer to the trailcraft that is nearly perfect straight out of the box.... ugggggg!!!!


But unless you kid is ready for a 26" you are still going to need to change the cranks


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## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

For the Cleary, the main parts that I would switch out are in order of priority and what I've done:

1. Tires: switched stock Small Block 8 tires for Rocket Rons
2. Drivetrain: Will be switching out stock 9-speed cassette for a wider range 11-36 10-speed cassette and the thumb shifter which is not working that well for my son for a Shimano Rapidfire shifter.
3. Fork: Sounds like a suspension fork is not needed for you. I added a Suntour XCR Air fork that is working great.
4. Wheels: Not sure if the stock wheels are tubeless compatible, but I decided not to take that step. You could get a pair of 24" Stans Crest rims and build a wheelset around that.

My ride review of my son's Cleary is at: 24" Kids Bike Comparison Test: Cleary Meerkat vs Specialized Hotrock 24 7-speed ? DIRT MERCHANT BIKES

The ride quality of the steel frame seems to be a better fit for kids than a stiff aluminum frame.


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## MCM990 (Jul 31, 2006)

That is a damn nice bike Spectre and was the one that got me thinking Cleary in the first place...

I would like to upgrade the tires/wheels and drivetrain from standard cleary builds for sure. No fork needed right now. Curious what the weight difference is between a good suspension fork and the rigid steel one that came off.


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## MCM990 (Jul 31, 2006)

Really, the cranks on the trailcraft bike are not suited for the 24" wheels?


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## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

I went back and did a little calculating:

Weights of both are:

Cleary rigid fork: 2.2 lbs
SR Suntour XCR Air fork: 4.0 lbs

If you're interested in doing a custom build, let me know. I'm currently looking into the possibility of getting frame kits (with selected parts) as a basis for doing custom builds.


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## MCM990 (Jul 31, 2006)

Thanks for the info, yes I am very interested in a custom build with the cleary frame as the base. Would like to get in the low low 20's with high quality components and rigid fork still.


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## Montana Rider (Aug 21, 2005)

I'm was searching for beta on the WOOM brand kids bikes in this sub-forum and saw your post...

For $499 = 19 and 3 oz
and their Supra (which has a few carbon bits, straight bar/seat post) $549 = 17 & 13 oz

WOOM 5 | Bike 24" | 7-11 years | 49-57" | 19lb 3oz 8.7kg | WOOMBIKES USA
WOOM 5 SUPRA | Bike 24 inch | 7-11 Years | 49-57" | 17lb 13oz (8.1kg) | WOOMBIKES USA

I just emailed them re: mid-June dates on their website.

Not sure any componts on the 5 would qualify as "high quality" but 1x8 and rigid helps a bunch...


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

MCM990 said:


> Really, the cranks on the trailcraft bike are not suited for the 24" wheels?


Not the wheelsize specifically *but the size of the kid*. (After all some adult jump bikes have 24" wheels)

You can get an idea of crank length here:
Crank Shortening - Highpath Engineering Ltd
(See the bottom of the page)

The critical measurement isn't exactly standover BUT you'd need a very weird kid for it not to be strongly related. (Think: Standover is inside leg and crank is "outside leg") Obviously most of us have pretty consistent "inside" and "outside" measurements.

So if you base on standover height on kids 24"ers the corresponding crank length is around 140mm, perhaps a bit less. (This allowing more flexibility in measurements for kids anyway - read text on the page)

If you look at standover on a XS adult frame.... its about 150mm 
(and an adult Large about 175mm)

So if your kid is large enough to use the 152mm cranks then they are large enough to get an adult 26" XS... (even a 27.5 XS)

The very few companies that have cranks made specially for a 24" bike have them at 140mm .... all the 152mm using trailcraft are simply the smallest they can buy without having specially made. Others are using even longer (160-165 that Suntour make)


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## MCM990 (Jul 31, 2006)

Great response. So in short, if the kid is on the small size for the 24" wheeled bike the seat may sit low enough for them to stand over but he LONG crank arms would extend too high at the top and bunch their legs up unnaturally. Correct?


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

MCM990 said:


> Great response. So in short, if the kid is on the small size for the 24" wheeled bike the seat may sit low enough for them to stand over but he LONG crank arms would extend too high at the top and bunch their legs up unnaturally. Correct?


Exactly ... and they might also go too low (so their legs/feet are stretched) and too far forwards as well !

What I found is too long cranks meant he had to stand up to get further forwards climbing (so he was pushing down on the pedals on the downstroke)

We actually put his saddle up much higher with the shorter cranks. (It was previously as low as it would go and now he has it a good 3" up for long climbs)

Equally when we drop the saddle a bit on really steep descents he can go further back with his hips.. as his leading foot isn't as far forwards... and he can manual easier...

Also with the saddle higher (and hence further back) its actually easier for him to stand ... where previously the saddle got in the way. Most noticeable on uneven surfaces but then... that's where he most often needs to put his feet down!


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

MCM990 said:


> Been doing a ton of research here and have narrowed the search for my son's new bike to three.
> 
> My son has had two other spawn cycles bikes and is currently riding their 20" bike and we have nothing but praise and love for what those bikes have allowed him to do on trail. My son is a pretty avid mountain biker and has been riding cross country single track trails mostly in the Minnesota area since he could push a strider.
> 
> ...


Weight is one consideration but IMO geometry is most important. I got my son a Spawn Shojo and he flies on it- those super short chainstays give him confidence to jump everything in sight. The only upgrade I did was add a 40 tooth cassette cog to give him a bailout gear. 


MCM990 said:


> Thanks for the comments @lewisQC, the trailcraft really is impressive... I have seen some custom cleary builds and they look really nice.
> 
> Imagine the cleary with the trailcraft wheelset and a few other thoughtful weight conscious upgrades....


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## pott0120 (May 10, 2016)

A quick update. I ended up getting my son a stock 24" Cleary. He loves it and rides quite well with it. It is a great value for the money. He has complained about the shifters. My plan is to switch my bike to 1x11 setup and give him my 10 speed derailleur and XTR shifters. I have thoughts to upgrade the fork and wheelset but my wife thought I was insane for spending what I did on his bike. The bike is a nice bike to use right out of the box and upgrade as you can afford to.


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## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

crankpuller said:


> Weight is one consideration but IMO geometry is most important. I got my son a Spawn Shojo and he flies on it- those super short chainstays give him confidence to jump everything in sight. The only upgrade I did was add a 40 tooth cassette cog to give him a bailout gear.


I second the comment on geometry. My son's Cleary Meerkat isn't particularly light, but he is at least 25% faster on the Cleary than he was on a Specialized Hotrock. The Hotrock has stability oriented geometry for more novice riders that reduces responsiveness for more experienced riders. My son went from a singletrack carving ninja on his 20" Marin to being Elmer Fudd on a 24" Hotrock. Getting on the Cleary totally corrected that without that much change in weight from the Hotrock.

Suggestions for upgrades excluding the suspension fork are:

1x drivetrain: Use the existing cranks, but change out the cassette, rear derailleur and shifter for a Shimano 11-36
Cost: About $100

Tires: Rocket Rons are light and grippy
Cost: About $80

Wheels: I chose not to go to the expense of tubeless wheels, but feasible options that I can get with the 24" Stans Crest rims are:
a. DT350 hubs/Stans Crest: $525
b. Sta-Tru SpeedTuned hub/Stans Crest: $425

But, to me geometry is the key, not weight (as long as it is at a reasonable sub-25 lb level).


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## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

pott0120 said:


> A quick update. I ended up getting my son a stock 24" Cleary. He loves it and rides quite well with it. It is a great value for the money. He has complained about the shifters. My plan is to switch my bike to 1x11 setup and give him my 10 speed derailleur and XTR shifters. I have thoughts to upgrade the fork and wheelset but my wife thought I was insane for spending what I did on his bike. The bike is a nice bike to use right out of the box and upgrade as you can afford to.


Lower base cost is definitely a plus for getting spending on a kids' bike past the CFO!


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## sutter2k (Jul 26, 2014)

Spectre said:


> For the Cleary, the main parts that I would switch out are in order of priority and what I've done:
> 
> 1. Tires: switched stock Small Block 8 tires for Rocket Rons
> 2. Drivetrain: Will be switching out stock 9-speed cassette for a wider range 11-36 10-speed cassette and the thumb shifter which is not working that well for my son for a Shimano Rapidfire shifter.
> ...


Does the suspension fork change the head angle at all. I was thinking the 70 degrees ha is on the steep side. Perhaps a tad slacker would give better confidence going downhills?


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

pott0120 said:


> A quick update. I ended up getting my son a stock 24" Cleary. He loves it and rides quite well with it. It is a great value for the money. He has complained about the shifters. My plan is to switch my bike to 1x11 setup and give him my 10 speed derailleur and XTR shifters. I have thoughts to upgrade the fork and wheelset but my wife thought I was insane for spending what I did on his bike. The bike is a nice bike to use right out of the box and upgrade as you can afford to.


Unless it helps slipping it past the CFO .... why not give him the new 1x11 ???

I started off with giving my kid my used... but in reality they benefit more than we do not just range but crisper and more positive shifting...

AND equally they wear drive trains much much more slowly.. being much lighter and less power...


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## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

sutter2k said:


> Does the suspension fork change the head angle at all. I was thinking the 70 degrees ha is on the steep side. Perhaps a tad slacker would give better confidence going downhills?


I just did some measurements. The stock fork has about a 390 mm crown-to-axle measurement and the SR Suntour XCR Air fork set at 80mm of travel is about 450 mm crown-to-axle.


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## goldsbar (Dec 2, 2004)

This thread was really helpful. I've been looking at most of the offerings from the majors and wasn't very impressed. Nothing horrible, but they often came with a cheapo coil fork I'm guessing is worse than rigid. The RipRock is one exception that looked interesting as I'm now a plus-tire convert, but my local LBS stopped carrying Specialized and I really prefer to order online. The other two on the OP's list looked like great bikes, but way to expensive when I'm not even sure my 9 y/o will like trail riding (fingers crossed!).

My only issue with Cleary is they don't really tell you what you're getting on their website. I've had to rely on these threads to ensure the parts are reasonable quality.


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## Montana Rider (Aug 21, 2005)

To follow-up from my earlier post, I've been impressed with the weight and quality of the two woom bikes I got for my 10 yr old (24") and 5 yr old (16")

They're NOT mountain bikes per se but my two kids are small/petite for their age so they have been a great "fit" for our family, and do fine on bike paths and mellow single track.

WOOMBIKES USA


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## thefuzzbl (Jul 5, 2006)

Trailcraft is having a sale of their 2016 24" bikes and demo bikes right now. Spoke to Ginger yesterday, she said to check this special builds page for some good deals. In the next three weeks she will be moving what's left of the 2016 bikes over here until sold out and uploading the 2017 bikes soon. So a great time to get one of these Trailcraft bikes right now.
Trailcraft Cycles


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

I know this thread is really old, but I wanted to check in and see how you like them after they have some mileage...

Do you still like the Woom & Cleary bikes? Can they handle mountain singletrack?

We are considering the Woom 5 24", the Cleary Meerkat, Frog 62... or whether to just bite the bullet and get a Trailcraft Pineridge... I know it makes no sense.

Kid has well outgrown the Spawn Banshee and can comfortably and fearlessly ride, but we haven't really given him the opportunity to do anything too serious. We have a lot of singletrack and bike parks nearby, with runs from green to black. Just not really sure what he will be riding for the next few years and what his friends will be riding so having trouble choosing the next ride. His friends don't really do much of anything right now that doesn't involve a screen, but they all own real mountain bikes like the Commencal Meta. As far as I can tell, my kid is the only one who plays outside. Peer pressure is not my friend here. :-/

He's only 7, but tall and strong enough for any of those according to their size charts.

Long winded way of saying -- how are the bikes treating you after using them awhile?


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

Me too. I have a kid on a Woom 4 and another on a 16" earlyrider belter. Youngest is ready for the woom 4. Kid #1 is ready for a woom 5, but I'm researching more trail oriented options. Trailcraft is just plain out of the budget. Woom is $450. But I'd throw another $200 in if I could get the same quality with beefier tires and a suspension fork.


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## ggphysics (Jul 31, 2017)

I spent considerable time this past fall laboring over all the options for my 7 year old son. I finally settled on the Islabikes Creig 24. The geometry is on the mark, the fork is light and adjustable, and all the points of contact are scaled appropriately. I did change the rear cassette due to our very hilly terrain here in the Berkshires.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

ggphysics said:


> I spent considerable time this past fall laboring over all the options for my 7 year old son.


Everyone has their own idea of what their kids need for cycling and to some extent where we live will play a big part but what the kid gets into is probably just as important.

I certainly had no idea when he was 5 what we would do... or I did but it turned out to be completely wrong... I hadn't ridden single track for decades but we ended up on more and more single track and less and less (fire trail) and practically zero roads.

At 7 we were riding mostly moderate single track. A pure chance meeting and he got into kids XC which it turns out he's pretty good at.. then we spent most of the last 6 months since he turned 8 doing more and more downhill. (I have a 100 mile 2 hour each way drive to get him to a DH race registration before 09:00 on Sunday - Saturday a 50 mile drive to get him to a XC race) and still the main point is going riding together which looks hard this weekend!


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

Just an fyi that Cleary is releasing a new 24 and 26 in mid summer. I don't have any details, but they might be options for those with more time...


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