# Entry Level XC Forks?



## donloder (Dec 13, 2008)

Anyone got suggestion for a low maintenance forks entry level xc forks. I am considering the Rockshox Dart 3 and the Marzocchi 22 RLO, how are they?


----------



## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

I would consider those two the best of the entry level forks. If you look around at some of the site sponsors, you may find some pretty good sales on a little better fork. Don't know 'bout shipping.


----------



## Rad Rider 415 (Nov 20, 2010)

I would go with a Rock Shox Tora. Not an entry level but just above it.


----------



## mitzikatzi (Sep 9, 2008)

At Jenson 
Dart 2 $136 cheaper on ebay or a 3 for same price

Tora 302 Air $175

Tora SL Solo Air $179

or
rockshox-2008-recon-race-solo-air- only 190mm steers but only $160
much better than a Dart for only a little more. from this thread


----------



## mitzikatzi (Sep 9, 2008)

oops


----------



## gord962 (Aug 11, 2007)

Definitely worth jumping to an air fork.


----------



## donloder (Dec 13, 2008)

gord962 said:


> Definitely worth jumping to an air fork.


dont think my budget can cover it at this stage, but might upgrade to something better later.


----------



## Eville140 (Nov 26, 2010)

mitzikatzi said:


> At Jenson
> Dart 2 $136 cheaper on ebay or a 3 for same price
> 
> Tora 302 Air $175
> ...


This! 
Or be patient and find something nice used. I switched from a Dart to a used Reba Race, the difference truly is amazing. The slightly rough section that would rattle me with the dart pretty much disappeared. Dang thing works so well you can't tell if it working or not..if that makes any sense.
And a air fork can drop a good pound or more off your bike.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

dart 2 85 bucks http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/18...RockShox-Dart-2-Fork-Post-Black-80mm-2010.htm

marzocchi 22 90 bucks http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/18...orks/Accessories/Marzocchi-22-R-Fork-2009.htm

Dart 3 with pop lock 135 bucks http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/17...s/RockShox-Dart-3-Fork-Post-W_Poploc-2010.htm


----------



## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Are you somewhat satisfied with your current fork ? If so I highly agree to steping up to a higher end air fork like the Fox RL series , your going to have to save longer but well worth it:thumbsup:


----------



## bigbeck (Feb 15, 2004)

No fork that I've ridden feels as good as a coil spring fork. However, in most cases, you must change the spring to suit your weight and the terrain that you ride. Otherwise,with the wrong spring, it will feel like a POS.

Be careful with the entry level coil forks without rebound damping. They'll bounce you all over the trail in rough terrain like rock gardens - worse than a rigid fork.

Eville140 mentioned used forks. For your budget,that's an excellent solution. Besides, one of those forks that you listed may not be as good as the one you have now.

I've ridden several entry level forks and the only one that felt good to me was a Manitou Axel with adjustable rebound damping. If your lighter than 180lbs, they work good. Even with the firm spring kit I'd say 180lbs. is the limit. They had OEM versions of this fork without oil damping that were total crap. 

When buying used check to make sure whether or not it's an OEM fork. Many bicycle manufacturers get Rock Shox, Manitou or Marzocchi to make special versions of of their most popular shocks for them. Sometimes they butcher them pretty bad too But sometimes it's something minor like no lock out. I'd be wary of anything that came off of a Specialized bike. I've seen them put a high end Marzocchi sticker on a very low end Marzocchi fork. But I don't know if Specialized was trying to cheat the consumer or Marzocchi was trying to get over on Specialized. I sent emails and made phone calls to both Specialized and Marzocchi. I kept getting pushed back and forth between both of them and neither one could actually tell me exactly which model Marzocchi fork that came on this new 2006 Specialized Enduro.

I ended up taking it apart to find out that it was a low end dirt jump fork. Pissed me off because the bike was advertised with a high end 650.00 AM fork. So the only thing high end about it was the sticker. What lame companies.


----------



## 0600661160 (Apr 8, 2009)

donloder said:


> dont think my budget can cover it at this stage, but might upgrade to something better later.


if your budget can't cover it you can stick to your choice. If I were you I will choose dart 3 for my bike. Despite you want to upgrade it later


----------



## frdfandc (Sep 5, 2007)

I'd pick the Dart 3 over the Marzzochi.

But would personally look for at least a Tora.


----------



## nickav21 (Dec 25, 2009)

I use a Tora and for entry level it's great! I got it about a year and a half ago, new on one of those fire sales on Jenson, and it still works just as well as the day I got it. It really soaks up the big bumps, but starts to fail when it comes to small bumps, usual trail chatter, and really fast, technical sections. A lot of it may just be that Iv'e progressed as a rider a lot since I got it and am riding sections much faster, but I am in the market for a new, probably air, fork. But don't let that turn you away! I would highly recommend it for a beginner. The performance is much better than all the darts and it has pretty amazing adjustability for a fork at that price point. Hope this helps some!


----------



## getagrip (Mar 26, 2008)

I think you should stick with what you have until you become a better rider, but I suppose if you HAVE to upgrade now, I'd go with what mullen119 suggested - save some money and buy Rock Shox Dart II for $85. Then, after a season or two of riding, upgrade to something better as you get more advanced...


----------



## bigbeck (Feb 15, 2004)

donloder said:


> dont think my budget can cover it at this stage, but might upgrade to something better later.


 I don't know how I missed this before, but the Marzocchi 22 RLO DOES have a rebound control. So that would make it superior to the Dart 2 and equal to the Dart 3. Just call them & make sure that it does indeed have the rebound control. You want to eliminate the possibility that it's not a crippled OEM version.

The Marzocchi website states that the 22 RLO has a rebound control on the bottom of one of the fork legs but that's for a 2011 model. If it checks out, I'd buy it. Either that or the Dart 3 or Tora as many others have stated.


----------



## jpeters (Nov 19, 2010)

Just get a suntour epicon its a air fork only 1700 grams. I never knew anyone to like the dart or to upgrade to a dart that is the worst of the worst.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I wouldn't buy an entry level suspension fork. I'd ride a rigid in preference. I'm not being snobby - I've got saddle time on rigid forks and they track a lot better than a bad suspension fork. I think the ride is better.

I lucked into a racing fork for under $100 bidding on forks on EBay, so I skipped straight from the off-brand fork that came on my bike to something fairly high-end. Read the reviews on any fork before buying it - a lot of the forks mentioned in this thread have questionable reputations for reliability.

If I had to do it over and didn't get the deal I did, or have access to the deals I do now, I'd probably be looking at a Tora or Recon, or maybe the Manitou Match as a minimum-worthwhile suspension fork. There are some pretty good deals on them, but the current-year Toras have a lower spec than older ones did - I think RS has moved some of that feature set up to the Recon. I don't know Marzocchi's recent lines.

RS and Fox forks are a combination of the chassis, which is the named part, and the spring and damper cartridges, generally described with letters, numbers or a name following the name of the fork. So a good fork is one with a good spring and damper, and if you can't find one that comes with the right stuff, or it's too expensive, if you start with one that's compatible with the stuff you want ultimately, you can get those later. It also means a blanket statement like "Toras are good" is too simple, unfortunately.


----------



## gord962 (Aug 11, 2007)

donloder said:


> dont think my budget can cover it at this stage, but might upgrade to something better later.


I would wait until my budget did allow for an air fork. This should meet your needs nicely and should be close to your price range: http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/FK276A00-Rockshox+Tora+Sl+Solo+Air+Fork+100Mm+Oe.aspx


----------



## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

I would wait until finding a deal on a used Fox or a nice RS Reba instead. 

I just saw a Talas RL 140mm go on ebay for $200. While that was probably an anomoly, I bet you could find a good used F-Series Fox fork for $300, and it would be worth stretching the budget $100-150 for one. 

-Tom


----------



## mudforlunch (Aug 9, 2004)

A lot of entry level forks are "throw away" forks meaning that after a few years when they start leaking oil, and the rebound adjust breaks, they can't be serviced. I have a set of older Marzocchi 33s, which are pretty much on their last leg. Hoping to save enough for a new one (Fox) before the Marzocchis kill me. Good forks though while I used them, just beat to death.


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Sorry, but my definition of a basic fork, is the cheapest fork that can do the job.

A lot of the forks above are not up to scratch.

A fork should be plush enough to follow the contour of the ground to increase traction, a basic damping circuit, and be stiff enough to allow you to control the bike.

A basic rule of economics is it is better to spend too much than to little. If you spend too much you have wasted a bit of money, if you spend too little the item you bought may not be capable of the task for which it has bought and you have wasted your entire investment.

If you hunt around you can find a tora for a very reasonable price...I think onone were selling them off cheap.

The tora is stiff, smooth and with a basic damping circuit.
For a comparison the Dart has a choice of two damping circuits.
Most of them have rely on the seal stiction, the best ones have a damper that hydrolocks is you bottom the fork. So the cheap ones are incapable of tracking the ground, and therefore do not increase traction. The fancy ones go rigid if you bottom them.

The forks are also VERY flexible. the fork can twist enough that the bushings lock on to stanchions. Braking can do this.

So lets compare entering a corner at speed.

Tora, you brake hard, small amount of brake dive, the fork stays plush adds grip and it goes through the corner under control.

Dart, you brake hard, the fork twists and points left, it stiffens losing grip. You can now either turn to compensate for the fact that your front wheel is not pointing in the same direction as the bars, or just give up and crash.

The dart is an awful piece of equipment, even the dart 3.
The most basic Tora is a good fork that will make your riding more fun for years.

suddenly the price difference is put in perspective?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

CaveGiant said:


> Sorry, but my definition of a basic fork, is the cheapest fork that can do the job.
> 
> A lot of the forks above are not up to scratch.
> 
> ...


While I agree with you that having a good stiff fork is only going to help, I disagree with you that budget forks are as worthless as you claim. Just a few years ago, 28mm stanchion forks where the standard as was 9mm qr. while some people had issues with the forks twisting a little bit(no where near what you claim in your post) Most people do not notice. That goes especially for beginners who are on a budget and ride slow and on easier xc trails. When I started out riding, I used a dart/judy and while it would not suite my needs now that my skills have progressed, It was plenty of fork for what I used it for back then. Saying that if you have a dart or similar fork, and you hit the brakes hard, the fork will get twisted/ freeze and cause you to wreck is simply untrue.

Also, brake dive has absolutly nothing to do with the lateral stiffness of a fork. Brake dive is effected only by the spring and the damper. Which a tora and a dart come stock with a coil spring(for coil tora)that is ment for the same weight rider in mind(around 160 lbs), and they both come with turn key damping. So saying brake dive would be different between the two forks is also very untrue.


----------



## Rad Rider 415 (Nov 20, 2010)

You will fish out a decent amount for a reba. I bought a 2010 on ebay for a little over 300 bucks but that was the 29er version, I don't know what you want? 26 or 29?


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I didn't mean to imply there was a difference in brake dive between the forks, but will not defend the dart. 
My current fork only has 30mm stanchions and I am a clyde prone to doing multi-metre drop offs. The poor design in the dart is the problem.

Hop back on a bike with a dart and ride it hard, you might be surprised how flexible it is.
You cannot fit powerful brakes, the dampers blow (if fitted at all), occasionally the fork binds because it over-rotates, the twisting is liable to make bike control difficult.

My point probably was a bit vague, so to summarise.

If you buy a tora you will have made a good investment that will assist your riding and it will help you learn. If you get something worse it might cause more problems that it solves. 

If all you can afford is a dart 1, then get a dart 1. However at UK prices i can buy a dart for £86, £99 for a recon (the one up from Tora).
The price difference is not huge, the performance is significant.

I do not know anything about the Marz options, 22 might be great!

p.s. Wasn't the Judy the fork that was famed for the top caps popping off and it collapsing mid ride? 
p.p.s. I may come across as a fork snob, but I am trying to make people buy somethign they will value, not regret.


----------



## J. Fragera (Apr 16, 2008)

On my 26er I went from a Dart 2 that came with my bike to a SID Race that I caught on sale for $450... WAAYYY worth the extra coin. That is one of the key upgrades that took a good bike and made it a great one.

Around Christmas I grabbed up an entry level GF Marlin 29er SS as a test to see if I like 29ers and SS. Finally, last weekend I got to take the bike out for it's maiden ride. After 8 miles on the bike, I went home and purchased a Recon Silver 100 for it. This one is more middle of the road, but should suffice for what I have in mind for this rig.

Sure, if you are on a budget it takes longer to spend more, but the payoff is getting away from sketchy, entry level boat anchors.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

CaveGiant said:


> I didn't mean to imply there was a difference in brake dive between the forks, but will not defend the dart.
> My current fork only has 30mm stanchions and I am a clyde prone to doing multi-metre drop offs. The poor design in the dart is the problem.
> 
> Hop back on a bike with a dart and ride it hard, you might be surprised how flexible it is.
> ...


I agree completely... the better fork you buy, the happier you will be. I would never tell anyone that it is ever a good idea to buy a Dart 1. Dart1 has no damper in it at all, so that is just a horrible idea. A dart2 or 3 on the other hand has turnkey damping, which is the same as the toras. So the only difference is the frame which is flexible for sure, but still equivalent or better then what comes on most sub 700 dollar bike, which either have darts or cheap suntour forks. All Im trying to say is that for beginners or people that dont ride hard trails or ride very fast, Lower end forks will serve them just fine. Kia Rios are cheap cars that do not fit the needs of everyone, But they do fit the needs of some people without issue. Thats how lower end forks are IMO, They may not fit what you or me are looking for, But it may be enough fork for the OP. everyone on here is trying to tell the OP to double his budget or more. Chances are he would be spending more money on a fork then he would have payed for his bike.


----------



## mudforlunch (Aug 9, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> I agree completely... the better fork you buy, the happier you will be. I would never tell anyone that it is ever a good idea to buy a Dart 1. Dart1 has no damper in it at all, so that is just a horrible idea. A dart2 or 3 on the other hand has turnkey damping, which is the same as the toras. So the only difference is the frame which is flexible for sure, but still equivalent or better then what comes on most sub 700 dollar bike, which either have darts or cheap suntour forks. All Im trying to say is that for beginners or people that dont ride hard trails or ride very fast, Lower end forks will serve them just fine. Kia Rios are cheap cars that do not fit the needs of everyone, But they do fit the needs of some people without issue. Thats how lower end forks are IMO, They may not fit what you or me are looking for, But it may be enough fork for the OP. everyone on here is trying to tell the OP to double his budget or more. Chances are he would be spending more money on a fork then he would have payed for his bike.


agreed 100%. I'm a clyde too, my first "real" mtb was a Hardrock that had a Marzocchi comp. fork which was the cheapest you could pretty much get. I took that bike off 4 ft. drops, and rode every major trail within an hour of Fort Collins for three years. It wasnt a great fork, but it worked fine (before it snapped three years ago). Same deal now, my forks aren't the best, but they work fine, although being that I've outgrown them skill (and use) wise, I want to upgrade. Those bare bones forks are fine for beginners their first year. You don't _need_ great gear to have fun and ride. It helps, but if you can't afford it, so what. Ride anyways. Before I bought the Hardrock I used to ride those same trails near FC on a piece of crap rigid Trek 700 series with canti brakes and a plastic chainguard. Got some smug looks from a lot of spandex clad wankers with $3000+ bikes, but I passed a lot of those bikes, uphill and down, with my POS Trek.

Of course, now I'm saving up for a $3000+ bike


----------



## FireLikeIYA (Mar 15, 2009)

gord962 said:


> I would wait until my budget did allow for an air fork. This should meet your needs nicely and should be close to your price range: http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/FK276A00-Rockshox+Tora+Sl+Solo+Air+Fork+100Mm+Oe.aspx


this seems like a good deal. I would personally keep saving up for a better model if you can wait. You might be able to find a decent deal in the 200ish range on a Fox fork if you keep looking.


----------



## GFAthens (Sep 10, 2009)

I would try to get something a little nicer than the dart if I were you.

I ride an 09 Dart 2 and I've been riding it for about 18 months now. It's really not a great fork. It's very heavy and it functions somewhat poorly.

Having said that, the Dart doesn't keep me from having a good time on the trail and from attacking rock gardens quickly.

I've never had any issue with twisting/freezing. The fork is not great, but it's not that bad, it will get you safely through the trails. But truly, the money you spend on a dart would probably be better spent on a rigid fork. 

If you can stretch your budget slightly for the tora, it'll be worth it. The above post about the economics of buying something slighty out of budget is true. If you have to wait a bit and save, I think you'll find it worth it.


----------



## bigbeck (Feb 15, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Also, brake dive has absolutly nothing to do with the lateral stiffness of a fork. Brake dive is effected only by the spring and the damper. Which a tora and a dart come stock with a coil spring(for coil tora)that is ment for the same weight rider in mind(around 160 lbs), and they both come with turn key damping. So saying brake dive would be different between the two forks is also very untrue.


 Hmm... Reminds me of a Manitou Axel fork that I had around 2004. I had the good one with oil bath rebound control.I paid like 69.00 for it at Price Point. The retail price was arount 200.00. I was 170 lbs then and it had a medium spring. I was very impressed with it. No flex and it tracked pretty well. About a year later I gave this to one of my riding buds and he hated it. It flexed like crazy and bottomed out a lot. He put a firm spring in it but that helped very little. He's pretty heavy for a cyclist at 210 to 220 pounds. He kept riding it for about 6 months till the rebound damper seal blew out. It then became a pogo stick.

I think the entry level coil forks, providing they have oil rebound damping, only work well for lighter riders and or beginners that weigh less than 180 lbs. Of course there's always a better chance of getting a badly designed fork at the entry level. I just got lucky on this one.

I know the same fork wouldn't work well for me today as I ride more aggressively, gained 15 lbs and ride more technical terrain. Besides, once you ride a well damped stiff fork that fits your riding style, you become spoiled, and rightly so!:thumbsup:

Air is fair but the king is spring.


----------



## donloder (Dec 13, 2008)

Anyone use the Rock Shox Rora SL Air, what is it like, I havent found any reviews or much info on this model, anyone got a link?


----------



## jpeters (Nov 19, 2010)

Thats a good fork I would get it if I were you


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Rora? You mean Reba or Tora?


----------



## donloder (Dec 13, 2008)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Rora? You mean Reba or Tora?


how are the roras compared to the tora and reba?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

donloder said:


> how are the roras compared to the tora and reba?


I had a rora back in the day. It had a potion control damper. :lol:


----------



## MaKn (Aug 1, 2009)

Check out the '10 Manitou Drake at bikewagon.com for only $173 (and free shipping)!!! http://www.bikewagon.com/Forks-Headsets-Suspension/Suspension-Forks/26-Forks/10-Manitou-Drake-100-p9459485.html IMO, better than any sub $200 entry level fork. Most people who have used Manitou's Absolute+ damping say it is awesome.

One side of my brain says: _I don't "need" a new fork, _
but the other side says: _what a great deal,_ and _it would be perfect on my hardtail._


----------



## jpeters (Nov 19, 2010)

MaKn said:


> Check out the '10 Manitou Drake at bikewagon.com for only $173 (and free shipping)!!! http://www.bikewagon.com/Forks-Headsets-Suspension/Suspension-Forks/26-Forks/10-Manitou-Drake-100-p9459485.html IMO, better than any sub $200 entry level fork. Most people who have used Manitou's Absolute+ damping say it is awesome.
> 
> One side of my brain says: _I don't "need" a new fork, _
> but the other side says: _what a great deal,_ and _it would be perfect on my hardtail._


That is a nice price I would go with that for sure!!


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

drake offer is a win!

Mantiou makes some great stuff, this includes the drake.


----------



## bigbeck (Feb 15, 2004)

CaveGiant said:


> drake offer is a win!
> 
> Mantiou makes some great stuff, this includes the drake.


 +1 on Manitou. I currently ride a coil&air 130mm Minute and coil only 145mm Nixon. The Nixon is
more robust,both have excellent damping although the minute is a tad flexy on extreme terrain. Out of the box, neither felt great until i changed the spring for a lighter one.

I also had a Fox Vanilla and that's right up there with the Nixon, maybe even a hair better. The Vanilla is the only coil spring fork I've owned that came with the correct spring for my weight(185lbs). One thing I like about Fox is that they only make excellent forks, no low end crap. Only drawback is you never see them at crazy low (say,around 200.00 - 250.00)clearance prices, like Manitou, RS and Marzocchi. .


----------



## MaKn (Aug 1, 2009)

I currently have a Tora 318 (w/ MC) on my Trek. Does anyone know how the Drake compares to the Tora?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

MaKn said:


> I currently have a Tora 318 (w/ MC) on my Trek. Does anyone know how the Drake compares to the Tora?


Slightly better damper/materials in the drake. If you were upgrading from a low end fork I would say buy a drake or even a manitou match(same materials as a 318), But the drake is not that much better then the tora, So I would say its not worth upgrading from the 318 since the forks will perform fairly similar in most situations.


----------



## jpeters (Nov 19, 2010)

As long as you don't get the Dart I would go with the Drake the Torah or maby even the Epicon.


----------



## High Side (Apr 16, 2010)

A quality fork makes a HUGE difference in ride quality. I started off on a myriad of cheap forks (Suntour SR, Dart 3, even Manitou Black which sucked) before getting my RS Revo. There is no comparison. Spend as much as possible on a good fork. A good fork is also safer.


----------



## jpeters (Nov 19, 2010)

I had a fox 32f and a suntour epicon and I would say for the money go with the epicon. The epicon is not a bad fork its the best budget fork I think. It rides nice and does just as good as the fox except when its very very cold its a little slower. The fox looks better its a litter stiffer it takes a bigger disk but it is 3 to 4 times the price of the Epicon. So if you are on a budget go for the Epicon you will be happy. Its only 1700 grams and so easy to service for the money its the best and its a air fork so no changing springs.


----------



## bigbeck (Feb 15, 2004)

High Side said:


> A quality fork makes a HUGE difference in ride quality. I started off on a myriad of cheap forks (Suntour SR, Dart 3, even Manitou Black which sucked) before getting my RS Revo. There is no comparison. Spend as much as possible on a good fork. A good fork is also safer.


 Good advice! However,I disagree about the Manitou Black. I had the 120mm coil version and it was fantastic after I changed to a lighter spring (I'm 185lbs). Maybe you had an OEM version?
A lot of times big bike manufacturers like Specialized, will have the fork manufacturers build crippled versions of high end forks yet still carry the high end brand name. I've only seen this done on mid-level and entry level bikes, say between 1,000.00 - 2,500.00. People will do anything to make fast money.

I've seen tons of crappy Manitou OEM forks and to a lesser extent, Marzocchi. This practice could put them out of business. It's one thing to have a cheap entry level fork line but it's another thing to make an entry level fork and market it as high end. I once had a high end Marzocchi AM fork that came on a new 2006, 2,200.00 bike. Turned out it was actually an entry level dirt jump fork. But from the outside,it looked like the real deal. Had I not known about OEM forks, I would have figured that Marzocchi makes horrible forks. Let's face it, since their top of the line forks are this bad, what would the mid and low level forks be like?

While the fork manufacturer will be happy to sell thousands of these crippled forks to the major bike companies, it's THEIR name that's going to suffer most, not the bike brand. Look at Rock Shox. Many of their older products were horrible compared to Marzocchi and Manitou. Rock shox was even putting OEM forks on bicycles sold at Toys-R Us! I'm still afraid to use their products even though I know that they've been bought by Sram and are now putting out excellent forks.


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I am with you on the black, I had a crippled OEM black fork, but it was plush and tracked well.


----------



## TiCain (Sep 25, 2008)

Another vote for the Drake, I bought one last year, it is smoother and has less flex then my Recon, Won't find a better new fork for that $. Only six left, don't wait too long.


----------



## frostylemonade (Oct 1, 2010)

The Drakes are gone!! Good thing i snagged one yesterday. cant wait to try it instead of the Suntour XCM that came on my giant revel 1. 

Now if this snow would melt...


----------



## jpeters (Nov 19, 2010)

You can go in the snow just stay out of the salt


----------



## TiCain (Sep 25, 2008)

You're gonna like that fork, very smooth and precise, it has a combo spring/air, alittle different, but works nicely. I'm 165 lbs and only run around 10psi in mine, congrats on getting one at that price, it's a Big performance jump from what ya have now, Enjoy.


----------



## frostylemonade (Oct 1, 2010)

Thanks! I'm really excited for it. one question though: I'm pretty light - 140ish, any idea how much air I should run it with?

Edit: Im sure this is also a really stupid question.. but does it have lockout? Im assuming it does and it looks like it in the pictures, but the website didn't say anything so I wasn't sure. again sorry for the noob question


----------



## TiCain (Sep 25, 2008)

It has a lock-out, not real sure on the psi, just set it between 20-25% sag to start, then make rebound adjustments until it feels right to you.


----------



## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

frostylemonade said:


> I'm pretty light - 140ish, any idea how much air I should run it with?


At your weight, you may end up having to get the softer spring. The service manual lists the part number. It should only take a few minutes to swap them. See how it rides first.

Weighing ~200, I'm hoping to avoid having to get the heavy spring, but a manitou tech told me I would probably need it. He also told me any lbs could order one - $25. He may have been mistaken about the price because they're less than ten bucks at ChainReaction. Don't know why the firm costs less than a soft. The service manuals shows the same part number for 09 and 10 ride kits.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=44523


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

frostylemonade said:


> Thanks! I'm really excited for it. one question though: I'm pretty light - 140ish, any idea how much air I should run it with?
> 
> Edit: Im sure this is also a really stupid question.. but does it have lockout? Im assuming it does and it looks like it in the pictures, but the website didn't say anything so I wasn't sure. again sorry for the noob question


I'm not sure if this is true of the '10 model. It sounded like you got something equivalent to the current Drake Super Air? Is it a coil spring with air preload on one side, and the Absolute damper on the other?

If so, the Absolute damper is a platform damper. Depending on how you set it, it takes either a fairly small hit or trail chatter or a very large hit to make the fork work. Sort of like a lockout with an adjustable threshold. Its top settings should be plenty locked out.

As far as how much air - Manitou claims that you can play with both spring rate and preload by adjusting air pressure. If it's the spring I think it is, there's no minimum, but the maximum is 100 psi. When you get your fork, you should be able to identify what, exactly it has, download the manual, and sort it out. Being able to adjust spring rate is nice - start with whatever sag they recommend in the manual - 20% I think - and season to taste. With your spring rate set correctly, you should have a pretty plush ride when the damper's all the way open and almost never bottom out. The damper is to make the fork not bob, and IMO it's better to make the fork stiffer in response to trail chatter or landing drops by raising the spring rate, not with the damper. I've found that controlling brake dive or nosediving coming off a structure or in a compression is more a matter of stiffening the main spring on my Manitou, but it's often suggested to control this with the damper. Getting suspension set the way you like it takes some experimentation. If you find you don't use any air pressure and it's too stiff, that would be a pretty clear indicator that you need a softer spring.


----------



## donloder (Dec 13, 2008)

MaKn said:


> Check out the '10 Manitou Drake at bikewagon.com for only $173 (and free shipping)!!! http://www.bikewagon.com/Forks-Headsets-Suspension/Suspension-Forks/26-Forks/10-Manitou-Drake-100-p9459485.html IMO, better than any sub $200 entry level fork. Most people who have used Manitou's Absolute+ damping say it is awesome.
> 
> One side of my brain says: _I don't "need" a new fork, _
> but the other side says: _what a great deal,_ and _it would be perfect on my hardtail._


I was looking at a sent of Manitou Drakes a few weeks ago @$150, but since I was clueless and I didnt know if they are any good or not, so I passed it up:madman:

Thanks for the feedback everyone, now I know what is the good stuff and what I should be looking for,:thumbsup:

keep it coming!


----------



## bigbeck (Feb 15, 2004)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Getting suspension set the way you like it takes some experimentation. If you find you don't use any air pressure and it's too stiff, that would be a pretty clear indicator that you need a softer spring.


 True. And Manitou spring rates are all over the place. I have used 5 different Manitou forks and each has a different spring to suit my weight (185lbs) and riding style. They are ; Firm, medium, soft and extra-soft. It seems obvious to me that Manitou determines spring rates in the office and not on the trail.:nono: There's just no way a 185lb rider should be running an X-soft spring!


----------



## foresterxt (Oct 20, 2008)

frostylemonade said:


> The Drakes are gone!! Good thing i snagged one yesterday. cant wait to try it instead of the Suntour XCM that came on my giant revel 1.
> 
> Now if this snow would melt...


I snagged the last one :thumbsup: $172 was a killer deal.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I'm not sure if this is true of the '10 model. It sounded like you got something equivalent to the current Drake Super Air? Is it a coil spring with air preload on one side, and the Absolute damper on the other?
> 
> If so, the Absolute damper is a platform damper. Depending on how you set it, it takes either a fairly small hit or trail chatter or a very large hit to make the fork work. Sort of like a lockout with an adjustable threshold. Its top settings should be plenty locked out.
> 
> As far as how much air - Manitou claims that you can play with both spring rate and preload by adjusting air pressure. If it's the spring I think it is, there's no minimum, but the maximum is 100 psi. When you get your fork, you should be able to identify what, exactly it has, download the manual, and sort it out. Being able to adjust spring rate is nice - start with whatever sag they recommend in the manual - 20% I think - and season to taste. With your spring rate set correctly, you should have a pretty plush ride when the damper's all the way open and almost never bottom out. The damper is to make the fork not bob, and IMO it's better to make the fork stiffer in response to trail chatter or landing drops by raising the spring rate, not with the damper. I've found that controlling brake dive or nosediving coming off a structure or in a compression is more a matter of stiffening the main spring on my Manitou, but it's often suggested to control this with the damper. Getting suspension set the way you like it takes some experimentation. If you find you don't use any air pressure and it's too stiff, that would be a pretty clear indicator that you need a softer spring.


Absolute damper is a platform damper. The 2010+ manitou forks all come with absolute plus which has low speed compression not platform. If you crank the compression up all the way, It works like a lock out, But it has 8 clicks from fully open to fully closed. Its also very easy to adjust the high speed compression if one was so inclined( I did it to mine) It makes a big difference on how the low speed works.:thumbsup:


----------



## frostylemonade (Oct 1, 2010)

So its like varying levels of lockout?

Will all the info i need to adjust all the settings and everything be in the manual?


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Well, it depends. The way I read mullen's post, Absolute is very similar to lockout with a highly tunable blowoff pressure and Absolute+ is a compression damper, which is a different kind of system. He seems to think your fork should have Absolute+, and I don't have especially good information one way or the other.

You can download the manual now if you want to. They're on Manitou's site, going back several years.

http://www.manitoumtb.com/

Depending on how complicated a suspension fork you have, they're not always very good, though. While I don't think it's effective to stiffen a fork with a platform damper, a lot of people are quite successful using a compression damper to do that; the manuals don't really cover the finer points of tuning very well. It really just covers how each system works individually, but when you ride they all work together. Depending on whether you have a compression or platform damper, you could conceivably find you like a different spring rate.

There's a whole forum here devoted to shocks and suspension. So spending some time with the search function, or better yet Google site search of mtbr.com, can often find you some threads that go into more detail.

FWIW, I have an '06 Manitou R7 Platinum on the front of my bike. Getting the air spring and platform damper to work well together was a bit of a balancing act, but now I just pump both legs up to the same settings every week or so. Barring a major weight fluctuation, I'm done thinking about my fork. Which is nice.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

frostylemonade said:


> So its like varying levels of lockout?
> 
> Will all the info i need to adjust all the settings and everything be in the manual?


Kind of. When the ABS+ lever is all the way open (all the way counter clockwise), The fork will compress freely. Each click clock wise will constrict the oil flow a little more the the click before. The idea being that you find a spot (usally 3-4 click from fully open but depends on your weight) that keeps the fork from compressing a lot on low speed stuff, such as peddle bob and brake dive, Yet still absorbs all the bumps on the trail. It feels much better then a platform damper and when dialed in, You wont have to mess with reaching for the lock out lever to lock and unlock your fork. It will feel good on everything in the one position. You can lock it out completely buy moving the lever all the way clockwise. This will make all the oil flow through the high speed compression circuit only.

Setting it up is easy. Set your sag to 20% with the abs+ open all the way. Then set the rebound to where you want it. Adjust the compression(abs+) last. Adjust both the rebound and compression on the trail because the effects wont be felt clearly riding in a parking lot or by just pushing down on the fork.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Well, it depends. The way I read mullen's post, Absolute is very similar to lockout with a highly tunable blowoff pressure and Absolute+ is a compression damper, which is a different kind of system. He seems to think your fork should have Absolute+, and I don't have especially good information one way or the other.
> 
> You can download the manual now if you want to. They're on Manitou's site, going back several years.
> 
> ...


I would email Manitou about getting a ABS+ damper for your fork. It is way better then the original ABS and can be had for around 50 bucks. Its worth the upgrade and they are compatible with any fork that has the original ABS. The difference is unbelievable.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Oh, my fork's even older than that.  It's the SPV damper.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Oh, my fork's even older than that.  It's the SPV damper.


:yikes: I had a SPV rear shock. It made me want to smash my head against a wall.....:madman: Never tried the fork version but have heard it wasnt much better, although could be modded to make it work better.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

LOL. I've found a pressure for it that lets me climb out of the saddle without bobbing and descend as fast as my nerve allows. So I'm actually pretty okay with it. The big trick is that changing either the SPV or air spring pressure will make the other one behave a little differently, so it takes small, incremental changes and good records. It probably helps that my previous suspension forks were a RS Jett, back in 2000, and an RST Capa T6 in 2007. I'm looking forward to having a little more liquidity and sticking a Fox, or whoever's sponsoring my team that year, on the front end of my bike though.


----------



## bigbeck (Feb 15, 2004)

AndrwSwitch said:


> LOL. my previous suspension forks were a RS Jett,


 LOL! I bought a RS Jett also. Nice fork. , Bounced me all over the trails.LOL They should have antique value by now. The Dart is the modern day replacement.

I also had a heck of a time getting the spv on my 130mm Minute adjusted to my liking. I ended up with a very low pressure. I'd be just as happy without it.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bigbeck said:


> LOL! I bought a RS Jett also. Nice fork. , Bounced me all over the trails.LOL They should have antique value by now. The Dart is the modern day replacement.
> 
> I also had a heck of a time getting the spv on my 130mm Minute adjusted to my liking. I ended up with a very low pressure. I'd be just as happy without it.


http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=64268


----------



## jpeters (Nov 19, 2010)

Did the guy who started the thread ever get a fork?? donloder


----------



## donloder (Dec 13, 2008)

jpeters said:


> Did the guy who started the thread ever get a fork?? donloder


Havent made a purchase yet, still assessing the options, but hope to get something in the next week or two. Probably will be getting the Tora Solo Air since they seem to be more readily available than other forks mentioned.


----------



## bigbeck (Feb 15, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=64268


 Thanks for that link.:thumbsup: I think I'll give it a try. So maybe the lack of SPV on my Nixon comp coil is why I like it better than the Minute.

Many times, "more simple" = "more better"


----------



## TiCain (Sep 25, 2008)

I've had one of those too, nice plush fork for the money, hopefully it has motion control, that's a big plus, if not you can add it for around $50 down the road.


----------



## TiCain (Sep 25, 2008)

Cambria bike has 20% off all forks this week, you could get a 2011 RS Recon solo-air for 232.00.

Code for 20% off is FORKSAVE


----------



## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Anybody have any input on the new rockshox recon silver since sram took over?. ive heard its a very good shock for under $300.00


----------



## Colo Springs E (Dec 20, 2009)

bigbeck said:


> No fork that I've ridden feels as good as a coil spring fork. However, in most cases, you must change the spring to suit your weight and the terrain that you ride. Otherwise,with the wrong spring, it will feel like a POS.


?? So you've tried good quality air forks, and you prefer a coil spring fork?

You're the first person I've come across who feels that way. (Not saying you're 'wrong,' just an observation)

I had a SR Suntour XCR and it actually did a decent job, but I can tell literally a world of difference between that fork and my current air fork (Reba SL). The Reba tracks far better, and definitely is smoother and plusher. I never tried to change the stock coil in the Suntour by the way, so can't say you're wrong, but I don't even know what coil I would've changed it to.

-Eric


----------



## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

This is going to sound stupid, and you guys patently won't believe me, but even the lousy Dart3 is head and shoulders above the high end forks of fifteen years ago. When I stopped riding, I had a top of the line Rock Shox Judy XC. One side contained an oil cartridge, the other, a stack of elastomers. It was bad azz then and very pricey. After numerous elastomer combo swaps, and blown oil cartridges, I went to the brand new White speed springs. 16 years later, I but another bike with a Dart3, and please believe me.....these things are FAR superior to anything available back then at three times the price, so I am very thankfull and happy. You youngin's are spoiled as hell. I'm not some ghey dude either. I raced sport then expert in the nineties.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

^^^
I remember being impressed by the RST on the front of my bike when I bought it a couple years ago. Find a crappy enough thing to compare to, and lots of things can feel better.

The Recon Silver - depends. As an OEM fork, I'd say it's not bad. It'll accept all the cartridges and things for the Recon Gold, and the bike companies seem to have an allergy to putting a nice fork on a bike until it's the top model of that bike. So those of us on a budget may have to be happy with a fork that can have its guts swapped out.

As an aftermarket fork - why? You're already spending a bunch on the fork, and most of us probably pay someone else to do the initial installation. Spend a little more on the Recon Gold RL. (Unless, of course, you can get a kickass deal on a Silver but not the Gold RL.)


----------

