# MTB & road light setup



## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

About half my rides end up going into night out in some remote forest somewhere. Usually end up riding a few forest roads or tarmac to get back, or maybe a black downhill or two. Anyone have suggestions for lights for country/forest roads as well as technical trails? What are the very best lights right now as far as beam patterns & brightness? I’d prefer getting something quality to last years if possible. So far my best guesses are:

Magicshine Monteer 3500 or 5000 for helmet
Magicshine Monteer 6500 or Gemini Titan 4000 for the bars

Have a preference to make my own battery packs, so Exposure is probably out. 
Lupine looks nice, but seems a bit expensive, so if that’s the best I’ll have to save up.

Couldn’t find much lumen ratings for Outbound Lighting
Gloworm looks slightly underpowered or narrow.
Light & Motion Seca Enduro might work.

If I need to, I could go ahead & attempt to build a light. Had one built from years ago that was 70w Halogen but I blew it up on accident by frying the circuit board.


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

I'm a huge fan of Outbound Lighting, got the Hangover, Trail, and Trail Evo. Have some limited experience with L&M with the Taz 1200 and Imjim 800 and a variety of Niterider lights from a few years back as well. Had I not found Outbound Lighting, I was going to go with a Seca Enduro as it shares a very similar beam pattern to the Taz 1200.. With my limited sample size, Outbound makes a better light with beam pattern, battery life, and consistent output. 

To answer the lumen question about Outbound, the Hangover is about 800, Trail is about 1500, and the Trail Evo is around 2200. The main thing is exactly how much they have been able to do with those lumens, the beam shots are still not even doing justice to exactly how nice of a beam it is in real life. My favorite part after the beam is that they are all consistent output modes (except adaptive of course). Turn it on high, it's gonna run at the exact same lumen output until you hit 20 minutes of battery left and it drops down to low. That was my biggest complaint about pretty much every other light I had other used, they never held the advertised output for more than a couple minutes into the ride.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Having tried and owned lots of stuff.... Qualified by this works for up to a few hours of darkness.

I gave up on external battery setups and have our family fleet of bikes using common Bontrager and NiteRider models and the newer bright rechargeable Planet Bike tail lamps. That gives lots of good mount options, all the light needed for hours and simplicity. In this I value the simplicity and lack of f*ckry associated with more complex and more powerful setups.


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## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

firebanex said:


> To answer the lumen question about Outbound, the Hangover is about 800, Trail is about 1500, and the Trail Evo is around 2200. The main thing is exactly how much they have been able to do with those lumens, the beam shots are still not even doing justice to exactly how nice of a beam it is in real life.


That sounds good, I wish I had measured my last good light when I had it. My best guess is that it was running somewhere around 3,780-5,000+ lumens. It was bright enough to reflect off houses & light the house behind me, lol. Super wide beam pattern too, it was easy to see around corners. Don't really like tunnel lights, they do the job & are perfect for singletrack with heavy cover on the sides, but they get more annoying when the terrain opens up & I have to pick lines. Plus, my bars don't point in the direction I'm actually going too often. How much flood does that Trail Evo have, & can you buy light heads only?


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## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

Ah man, looks like I’d have to turn all my batteries into USB C powerbanks to use the Outbound Lighting systems. It’s not undoable, but definitely more work. That would still probably be easier than tearing into the light head, voiding the warranty. Anyone know how easy it is to open the light head? If the cells die can you pop in some more 21700 batteries?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Gummy Gloworm said:


> Anyone have suggestions for lights for country/forest roads as well as technical trails? What are the very best lights right now as far as beam patterns & brightness? I'd prefer getting something quality to last years if possible. So far my best guesses are:


Let me start by saying the desert trails I ride are far different from any forest conditions so what works best for me wouldn't necessarily be your best option. I have had the opportunity to use a lot of the lights you mentioned though so I'll attempt to comparatively describe the lights characteristics and performance which I hope will help. My current MTB light setup is the Outbound EVO on the bars + a helmet mounted Magicshine Monteer 3500 and I'm very happpy with this setup even though I don't necessarily consider these the best lights for all conditions.

Of all the Magicshine lights I have the Monteer 3500 is the only one I'd consider appropriate for your described needs (as a helmet light). Though physically identical (except slightly less weight) to the higher output Monteer's the SST20 emitters used in the 3500 version give a narrower/more focused beam and according to MS out throws the higher lumen (SST40 and XHP50.2) lights (see MS beam distance and CD claims). I unfortunately missed the opportunity (for a variety of reasons) to get a Monteer 8000 review light but have never seen anything but "glowing praise" for them from all the many reviews so this is a light you'd probably be very happy with. Since you like DIY batteries you can get all the Monteer lightheads separately on the Magicshine USA website in the light accessory section.
Magicshine Bike Light Heads, No battery No Mount 
I wouldn't expect to get full claimed output from the Monteer's other than at startup though. My 3500 started @ a little over 4000 lumens but settled to slightly under 2500 after the first half hour and I would expect similar results from the other Monteer's (my estimate). Heat has something to do with this but I believe this may be deliberate to minimize current draw to acceptable levels as turning my 3500 off then on again would return output to almost atartup levels.

The Outbound lights are awesome "if they fit your needs". They tend to be a little narrow focused (not the beam) as to thier designed purpose. The only one I would recommend for your described needs would be the EVO. They all have great beams but the EVO is the best all-rounder with the widest/most powerful beam. It also performs very well for road/path (much more traffic friendly while maintaining good throw) compared to most MTB oriented lights. As firebanex said, output claims are accurate and consistent. Doesn't sound to me like your considering self-contained though.

I believe you'd also be very happy with the XS or XSV Gloworms. Compared to the Monteer 8000 I'm guessing the output difference wouldn't be very much because the Gloworms have excellent output consistency. Once set up I don't think the mounts of the Gloworm's have the convenience of the Garmin interface MS mounts but they do offer better placement options and much easier on the fly adjustment. Gloworms also come with wireless remotes, changeable optics for beam angle adjustment, programmable preset levels, and a better UI program (no flash modes in the main program + a separate high/low commuter program). Gloworms also cost more but if the added features are things you like are a better value IMO. XS and XSV are probably the only helmet options that out performs (good beam width + maximum throw) the Monteer 3500 IMO.

Lupines are probably the most premium quality lights. They offer upgrades (at a cost) for older lights. I've never used one but reviews I've read label them as cold weather lights that run hot because of their small size. Maximum output only recommended for short periods of time means real world output advantages are minimal.

I'm hoping to get a chance to use a 4000 titan in the near future. Larger heat-sink mass and surface area hopefully will solve the overheating problem I've had with Gemini lights in the past. Mounts are basic silicone band items and placement options are limited but like the Gloworms the Titans are preset mode level programmable, have changeable optics and wireless remotes. LBS manager I exchange lights with just got one of these so if I can get it away from him I'll post my impressions and measurements.

If you have any questions feel free to ask! Hope this helps!
Mole


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## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

MRMOLE said:


> If you have any questions feel free to ask! Hope this helps!
> Mole


That helps quite a bit. Does it make sense to run a Monteer 8000 as a helmet mount? Usually the biggest problems I encountered running the old HID bike lights from L&M was the narrow beam patterns were bouncing around pointed at the sky, the trees, or a spot on the ground instead of the line. Does the Monteer 3500 have enough beam spread to see when the bike is sideways & I'm not exactly looking directly at the line? Riding a hardtail on rough trails caused me to just build my own light setup back when, but what I'm looking for now may be possible with LED. My biggest hurdle in building a light would be that cooling problem since I don't have a way to machine aluminum blocks for the light head. Back when I built the light there wasn't much issue with heat & halogen. It kept my head really warm, you could barely touch it with gloves after a while.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Gummy Gloworm said:


> That helps quite a bit. Does it make sense to run a Monteer 8000 as a helmet mount? Usually the biggest problems I encountered running the old HID bike lights from L&M was the narrow beam patterns were bouncing around pointed at the sky, the trees, or a spot on the ground instead of the line. Does the Monteer 3500 have enough beam spread to see when the bike is sideways & I'm not exactly looking directly at the line? Riding a hardtail on rough trails caused me to just build my own light setup back when, but what I'm looking for now may be possible with LED. My biggest hurdle in building a light would be that cooling problem since I don't have a way to machine aluminum blocks for the light head. Back when I built the light there wasn't much issue with heat & halogen. It kept my head really warm, you could barely touch it with gloves after a while.


Monteer 3500 has a fairly narrow beam. If your wanting something wide you could absolutely use the 8000 version. It weighs a little more and I would estimate draws enough current running a high capacity 2 cell pack on the helmet might cause some issues + 10000mAh of battery capacity is probably as low as you would want to go and get OK runtimes when using the highest preset level. As far as heat goes I don't think any modern light would get as hot as how you described you old DIY light. They all have thermal protection that will step the power down or on the better lights gradually reduce the output to a stable level and increase it gradually when the light cools enough. Handling with gloves is not a problem with any of my newer lights even in ambient temps. of 100°.
Mole


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## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

MRMOLE said:


> Monteer 3500 has a fairly narrow beam. If your wanting something wide you could absolutely use the 8000 version. It weighs a little more and I would estimate draws enough current running a high capacity 2 cell pack on the helmet might cause some issues + 10000mAh of battery capacity is probably as low as you would want to go and get OK runtimes when using the highest preset level. As far as heat goes I don't think any modern light would get as hot as how you described you old DIY light. They all have thermal protection that will step the power down or on the better lights gradually reduce the output to a stable level and increase it gradually when the light cools enough. Handling with gloves is not a problem with any of my newer lights even in ambient temps. of 100°.
> Mole


Which Magicshine lights have you tried? The Monteer 3500, 5000, & Seca Enduro are similar price points. Gloworm XS 2500 & Monteer 6500 are mid price, & then Monteer 8000, Gemini Titan, Gloworm XSV are highest cost range. Decided the Lupine is too costly for now. Even the least expensive Lupine light head is almost $300.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Gummy Gloworm said:


> Which Magicshine lights have you tried? The Monteer 3500, 5000, & Seca Enduro are similar price points. Gloworm XS 2500 & Monteer 6500 are mid price, & then Monteer 8000, Gemini Titan, Gloworm XSV are highest cost range. Decided the Lupine is too costly for now. Even the least expensive Lupine light head is almost $300.


I have 3 RN's (900/1200/1500), 3 Allty's (1000/1500/2000), and the Monteer 3500 which is the only one I think you would be interested in.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> I have 3 RN's (900/1200/1500), 3 Allty's (1000/1500/2000), and the Monteer 3500 which is the only one I think you would be interested in.


You may be in need of an LED light intervention!


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## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

Does Magicshine Monteer 5000 (helmet) & MagicShine Monteer 8000 (bars) make sense? Or should I try the 6500 or Gloworm XSV instead of the Monteer 8000?

Was thinking the SST-40s in the Monteer 5000 should punch out a bit more for the helmet without being a spot. Has anyone run the Gloworm XSV with the widest flood optics for the bars?


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Gummy Gloworm said:


> Does Magicshine Monteer 5000 (helmet) & MagicShine Monteer 8000 (bars) make sense? Or should I try the 6500 or Gloworm XSV instead of the Monteer 8000?
> 
> Was thinking the SST-40s in the Monteer 5000 should punch out a bit more for the helmet without being a spot. Has anyone run the Gloworm XSV with the widest flood optics for the bars?


Yes, my wife ran the XSV with the widest possible optics. It was a massive swath of light. Now, she prefers the wide optics on the sides and a spot optic in the middle position for amazing throw. She runs an X2 on the helmet. Gloworm's wireless remote that operates both lights is a wonderful feature. I run an XS/X2 combo and am more than pleased with the results.


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## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

TCW said:


> Yes, my wife ran the XSV with the widest possible optics. It was a massive swath of light. Now, she prefers the wide optics on the sides and a spot optic in the middle position for amazing throw. She runs an X2 on the helmet. Gloworm's wireless remote that operates both lights is a wonderful feature. I run an XS/X2 combo and am more than pleased with the results.


Any thoughts on which beam is wider? XSV wide optics or Monteer 8000?


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## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

MRMOLE said:


> I have 3 RN's (900/1200/1500), 3 Allty's (1000/1500/2000), and the Monteer 3500 which is the only one I think you would be interested in.


Ever rode with all of them at once? That's got to be a lot of light!


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Gummy Gloworm said:


> Any thoughts on which beam is wider? XSV wide optics or Monteer 8000?


Sorry Gummy, I haven't directly compared the two. The XSV with the widest option across the front was extremely wide. The 8000 might be wider and likely pumps out much more light for short bursts but Gloworm's other features outweigh the temporary massive bursts of light from the 8000. The remote, cooling, weight, size, customizable beam, etc. are fantastic. Having the ability to easily regulate power of two light at the same time is something we don't want to live without. We get impressive run times with smaller battery packs due to the ease of changing power just beneath our thumbs. We run Neutral White emitters, btw. Almost forgot to mention, on longer rides we opt for our Gemini 21700 2-cell packs for our helmet X2s. Gloworm's new packs look similar in design (21700 cells). Hopefully they'll be backward compatible with our Gen 1 lights. Gloworm says they're working on that.


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## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

TCW said:


> Sorry Gummy, I haven't directly compared the two. The XSV with the widest option across the front was extremely wide. The 8000 might be wider and likely pumps out much more light for short bursts but Gloworm's other features outweigh the temporary massive bursts of light from the 8000. The remote, cooling, weight, size, customizable beam, etc. are fantastic. Having the ability to easily regulate power of two light at the same time is something we don't want to live without. We get impressive run times with smaller battery packs due to the ease of changing power just beneath our thumbs. We run Neutral White emitters, btw. Almost forgot to mention, on longer rides we opt for our Gemini 21700 2-cell packs for our helmet X2s. Gloworm's new packs look similar in design (21700 cells). Hopefully they'll be backward compatible with our Gen 1 lights. Gloworm says they're working on that.


Do you have any guesses as to if there are compatibility issues in the batteries themselves with proprietary electronics, or are the electronics contained in the light heads? It would be good to know, because I plan to use my own battery packs from all the 18650 cells around here as well as a few other types. If Gloworm houses more of the control electronics in the batteries, I'd have to buy similar electronics that Gloworm uses for my batteries which is impractical & costly.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> You may be in need of an LED light intervention!


What I need is for the pandemic to end and to rent a space at the huge Tucson swap when they start doing those again. As far as owning a lot of lights the Magicshines are just the tip of the iceberg but at least MS was nice enough to comp. me most of those in exchange for reviews.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

TCW said:


> The XSV with the widest option across the front was extremely wide. The 8000 might be wider and likely pumps out much more light for short bursts but Gloworm's other features outweigh the temporary massive bursts of light from the 8000. The remote, cooling, weight, size, customizable beam, etc. are fantastic. Having the ability to easily regulate power of two light at the same time is something we don't want to live without. We get impressive run times with smaller battery packs due to the ease of changing power just beneath our thumbs.


I wholeheartedly agree! Most of this thread has focused solely on output and beam pattern. The XSV's functionality, ease of use, adjustability are all noticeably superior and an important consideration since the Monteer and XSV both produce a ton of light.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Gummy Gloworm said:


> Ever rode with all of them at once? That's got to be a lot of light!


Never though of trying. All those with the exception of the Monteer are more road/path/light trail appropriate so one at a time is fine. Here's some unrelated facts/thoughts/opinions that may help you evaluate some of the lights your considering.

Magicshine's maximum beam distance claims are Monteer 3500 (350 Meters), Monteer 5000 (265 meters), Monteer 6500 (280 meters), and Monteer 8000 (315 meters).

Early examples of the XSV used XPH50.2 emitters but were changed to XHP35.2's that produced a better balance of beam width and throw according to Gloworm.

From the beam shots I've seen of the Monteer 8000 and after trying all wide angle optics in my slightly different from the XSV Gloworm XS (XM-L2 emitters) I would estimate the widest would still be the Outbound EVO.

Gloworm wide angle optics are elliptical's that mostly widen the beam horizontally. Works better for the flatter desert trails I ride but if your trails have a lot of steep ups and downs or you spend a lot of time in the air a more traditional symetrical wide optic like the Monteer has may work better for you because of its additional vertical spread.
Mole


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## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

MRMOLE said:


> Gloworm wide angle optics are elliptical's that mostly widen the beam horizontally. Works better for the flatter desert trails I ride but if your trails have a lot of steep ups and downs or you spend a lot of time in the air a more traditional symetrical wide optic like the Monteer has may work better for you because of its additional vertical spread.
> Mole


Ok, yes. Ride average down 2,000' elevation loss over 2-5 miles. Natural trails with rock gardens & roots, love catching air but I'm more of a beginner at that. Most times I climb thousands of feet & then descend, or the other way around if I can.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Gummy Gloworm said:


> Ok, yes. Ride average down 2,000' elevation loss over 2-5 miles. Natural trails with rock gardens & roots, love catching air but I'm more of a beginner at that. Most times I climb thousands of feet & then descend, or the other way around if I can.


Actually sounds like you'd be fine with the Gloworm ellipticals. Thinking about it you could always try running one of the wide angle optics rotated 90° to give it more vertical height (I've never tried it but it should work!).
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Gummy Gloworm said:


> Ok, yes. Ride average down 2,000' elevation loss over 2-5 miles. Natural trails with rock gardens & roots, love catching air but I'm more of a beginner at that. Most times I climb thousands of feet & then descend, or the other way around if I can.


Not sure if you've chosen a light yet but I have a Monteer 8000 lighthead on order that should be here this Friday so will be able to share some first hand info soon on that and hopefully the Gemini Titan 4000 that my friend/LBS manger recently got.
Mole
*Good news! - It came early!*


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Here's what I got for output testing. As you can see thermally stable output was far lower than claimed output (which was very close @ startup). The stable output from 15 min. to 153 min. actually fluctuated a small amount depending on whether the air-conditioning was cycling so in colder temperatures the output will probably be higher but with shorter runtimes. I was shocked that it ran 2.5 hrs in high mode with my 10,000 mAh HunkLee battery since MS only claims 1.5 hrs. with their similar rated standard battery but am guessing they did their testing @ lower ambient temperatures which would allow higher output levels but more current draw. The big picture here is realistic output is probably very similar to a XSV Gloworm or Gemini Titan 4000 (If they have relative accurate stable output like I've tested with their other lights). Runtimes for the Monteer do appear superior to the others though. 
Mole


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