# 2016 Gemini lights?



## Ozzy43 (Mar 24, 2012)

Has anyone tried the new Gemini lights? I'm particularly interested in the new Titan, 4000 lumen, looks like three duos stuck together. The prices are very reasonable and they now have wireless remotes. Thanks


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

The Titan looks very good for the price, even with the 10400mah battery. I'm only disappointed there is no neutral white LED option.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Although I don't find issues with 6000K tints found on the lights I use or the XM-L2 U4 leds in the new Gemini products as I don't find them washing out all the detail on the trails as some do. If not to yellow once back on my bike I will have to see if I can get my hands on a neutral white light. At this point I may not know what I'm missing until I try it. I read a post somewhere where Lupine is offering neutral white led boards for Betty's only at 4900K/or 5000K. Maybe time to switch my led boards.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Crazy. Really just 3 Duos together. I wonder if there would be any interference issues with some stems? I like the new Xera. The wireless remotes are sweet.

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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

To bad the Xera isn't included in the wireless remote family as it is a good helmet light. I was wondering the same thing about stem clearance with the Titan,, may be an issue with some?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Agree..would be nice.

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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Remote switches (except Xera), better heat-sinking light bodies, new emitters for more poser - all great upgrades to the Gemini line. Also encouraging are the Xera's MTBR lumen/lux test #'s, hopefully the new Duo and Olympia will also more accurately match their power claims. Published runtime claims confusing though, Xera and Duo #'s match previous versions while the Olympia looks to have a considerable reduction in runtime out of its battery options. Looking forward to seeing MTBR's tests on these units.
Mole


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Just a guess here, but since last years (claimed 2100 lumen) Olympia fell terribly short on output (1478 lumens actual) if I'm remembering correctly,,, the much shorter runtimes on the 2016 version hopefully is do to a major bump in output which should be north of 2000 if keeping on par with the Xera.


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## stu06 (Dec 8, 2012)

Gloworm has their work cut out for them. They're going to have to develop wireless remotes and slash their prices to compete. On the other hand, however, they do have batteries with fuel gauges, the option of neutral white emitters, and a choice of lenses. If Gemini were to offer neutral white emitters it'd be an easy decision.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Would someone be so nice to post a link for this lights? TY


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Sirius9 said:


> Would someone be so nice to post a link for this lights? TY


 Gemini-lights.com/


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

thanks


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

TiGeo said:


> Crazy. Really just 3 Duos together. I wonder if there would be any interference issues with some stems? I like the new Xera. The wireless remotes are sweet.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Couldnt you use a Magishine Y cable adaptor and run 2 Duo's with a good 6 cell ?


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Have they done any coupon codes lately?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

No but there is a warehouse sale currently going on and some of the prev. gen. Geminis are on sale.

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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

indebt said:


> Just a guess here, but since last years (claimed 2100 lumen) Olympia fell terribly short on output (1478 lumens actual) if I'm remembering correctly,,, the much shorter runtimes on the 2016 version hopefully is do to a major bump in output which should be north of 2000 if keeping on par with the Xera.


 Even though the Olympia and even the Duo fell short In lumens according to mtbr , those two combined does make a killer light setup .


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

C.M.S said:


> Even though the Olympia and even the Duo fell short In lumens according to mtbr , those two combined does make a killer light setup .


 I would have to agree with that,,,,, as I have a Duo/Xera backup set up and it is very nice!!


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

indebt said:


> I would have to agree with that,,,,, as I have a Duo/Xera backup set up and it is very nice!!


I might be missing out on the GW X2 NW option , Duo/Olympia may become a backup set .


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

C.M.S said:


> I might be missing out on the GW X2 NW option , Duo/Olympia may become a backup set .


 That's one hell of a back up set lol. I just got confirmation from Dan at Gretna bikes that there are 4900K led boards for my Betty-R's as well as the 2016 Piko. A bit of a delay getting them right now as their swamped just dealing with the new 2016 line up and fulfilling orders. So still sitting in Germany.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

indebt said:


> That's one hell of a back up set lol. I just got confirmation from Dan at Gretna bikes that there are 4900K led boards for my Betty-R's as well as the 2016 Piko. A bit of a delay getting them right now as their swamped just dealing with the new 2016 line up and fulfilling orders. So still sitting in Germany.


Dang , you turn dirt into glass with the betty's lol


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## stu06 (Dec 8, 2012)

That's funny, I just inquired with Dan about the 4900K boards for the Betty R as well. I'm currently running a Gloworm X2 with NW emitters (with 2 wide-angle lenses) on my bar so it'll be nice to have a matching tint on my helmet-mounted R.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

indebt said:


> That's one hell of a back up set lol. I just got confirmation from Dan at Gretna bikes that there are 4900K led boards for my Betty-R's as well as the 2016 Piko. A bit of a delay getting them right now as their swamped just dealing with the new 2016 line up and fulfilling orders. So still sitting in Germany.


Yeah, I was reading about that on their website. What I fail to understand is "WHY?..." they decided not to include a "neutral LED" option for the Wilma-R!  I might have been willing to buy a Wilma-R with neutral emitters. The Betty R is more than I need and a lot more money. Would of been nice to have a kick-ass lamp on the helmet with neutral LED and wireless remote.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yeah, I was reading about that on their website. What I fail to understand is "WHY?..." they decided not to include a "neutral LED" option for the Wilma-R!  I might have been willing to buy a Wilma-R with neutral emitters. The Betty R is more than I need and a lot more money. Would of been nice to have a kick-ass lamp on the helmet with neutral LED and wireless remote.


 I couldn't agree more. The only reason I'm running Betty-R's is that at that time wireless remote wasn't available in the Wilma line either. I don't get it, Dan said 2016 Piko and Betty-R's have the option. Just a guess her but as the demand increases for neutral emitters one would hope Lupine would include the Wilma. I'd really be pressing for those 4900K boards if I was on the bike these days. I really would like to see the difference for myself.


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

I'm close to pulling the trigger on either the GW X2 or the Gemini Duo. I'm currently running two MJ-808 clones, one on helmet, one on the bar. Either the X2 or Duo is going to be a pleasant upgrade, but a couple of questions for some of you that are definitely WAY more knowledgable — and probably discerning — about lights than me: 

Is the NW really that much of a game changer? I've seen some comparisons and I can see the difference, but wondering how it translates to actual riding? Worth the $25 upgrade? (from action-led)

Looks like the new Gemini Duo uses U4 bins — is this going even farther from neutral white than the U2 in the last version?

The price difference b/t the two is ~$50 or $75 including the swap to the NW on the X2. It seems like the GW is a little more refined overall, but are the differences really that important?

Thanks


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

NW is not a game changer IMHO. 

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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

mikeynets said:


> I'm close to pulling the trigger on either the GW X2 or the Gemini Duo. I'm currently running two MJ-808 clones, one on helmet, one on the bar. Either the X2 or Duo is going to be a pleasant upgrade, but a couple of questions for some of you that are definitely WAY more knowledgable - and probably discerning - about lights than me:
> 
> Is the NW really that much of a game changer? I've seen some comparisons and I can see the difference, but wondering how it translates to actual riding? Worth the $25 upgrade? (from action-led)
> 
> ...


 Although I'm curious to see the difference on the trails myself, I cant say I have been disappointed with the 6000K emitters I'm using now. Hopefully I can find someone locally in the Tuesday night ride at some point who is using NW before committing to a $300 board change.

It's a subjective subject and you will be paying double the price for the NW X-2 over the new Duo with wireless remote to find out. I think like me you have to try for yourself to make that call. It wasn't long ago many of us were riding with P-4 equipped lamp heads which were almost as blue tinted as HID. We managed!!


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## Ozzy43 (Mar 24, 2012)

I'm really curious about the NW as well. I have not even seen side by side screen shots or anything. I was thinking my Gloworms were already fairly warm over what most of the local riders are running.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Ozzy43 said:


> I'm really curious about the NW as well. I have not even seen side by side screen shots or anything. I was thinking my Gloworms were already fairly warm over what most of the local riders are running.


Beamshots and videos will never reveal the advantage of NW emitters IMO. NW emitters don't make your light work better (1500 CW lumens measures the same as 1500 NW lumens), they allow your eyes to work better. CW emitters appear more powerful because they produce more glare. The harsher (not more powerful) CW light makes your pupils constrict more (for any given lumen amount) than NW would, reducing your vision performance. For the last few years I've run a Gemini Olympia as my bar light and had come to the conclusion that my vision was actually reduced at anything over 80% power on that light. I can run my BT21 or BT70 with NW emitters (which makes more measured lux) at full power with none of the reduced vision issues (mainly washing out trail irregularities) I notice on the Olympia at 100%. So looking at beamshots (and running a mix of NW and CW) eliminates the NW emitter advantage and again IMO not an accurate way of comparing the two emitter tints. I imagine NW emitters are like most things in that the degree of advantage depends on your eyes, riding environment, riding style and speed - I definitely think it's worthwhile (I also own an X2 & XS and will be having them changed to NW soon).
Mole


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

I've complained about poor night vision for a while now and do find even around the house in winter months I need more light than my younger wife. But also on the trails,,,, I've got lots of output and it works for me, but based on how you describe how the eyes react to cool white vs NW it makes sense to me. If the light is still as bright in lux but distributed in a warmer tint yes maybe the pupils wont close up as much thus better perception on detail in the lighted area.


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

In general I also have diminished night vision. Additionally, I don't know if this factors in to emitter tint at all, but I am really adversely affected by super bright car headlights — which always seem to be of the cool white variety. Again, I don't know if it's simply the brightness and the color is just coincidental or there's a connection. Maybe some of you know. . .

But yeah, the value of the new Gemini lights really seems to be a strong argument for them over the Gloworms — especially if the NW emitters aren't that big of a deal. I realize it's subjective though and for some people that'll sway them towards the Gloworms.

I'm really torn but starting to lean towards the Duo.


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## sdsyver (May 8, 2013)

I have two sets of the Gemini Duo and Olympia lights. My old ones are 1200 and 1800 lumens. Loved the lights enough that I bought another set to share with the family. I do like the remote idea. Looking forward to trying them out. As it is now they are fully charged and ready for action. I was never lacking for light on the old set so imagine the new ones will be equally as bright in the trail.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

We'll have them in stock the middle of next week. I'm anxious to do some testing on them and how they have improved. Particularly in how they handle over heating. I'll post results here as soon as I have them. I'll be doing beam patterns and then output vs time with no air movement. I'll probably retest the old ones for comparison. 
Still a few of the older ones left at sale prices. (they've just been reduced even farther)


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

I did forget to ask about the thermal? That was one area Gemini was lacking in the past as when they stepped down, they really stepped down to the low setting. I prefer a more controlled gradual step down system like the GloWorm products. Please confirm when you have a chance if thermal has improved.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Action LED Lights said:


> We'll have them in stock the middle of next week. I'm anxious to do some testing on them and how they have improved. Particularly in how they handle over heating. I'll post results here as soon as I have them. I'll be doing beam patterns and then output vs time with no air movement. I'll probably retest the old ones for comparison.
> Still a few of the older ones left at sale prices. (they've just been reduced even farther)


I look forward to seeing how they test out. I noticed all the light-heads weigh a little more so that should help with the heat. If they still get hot here's the solution I'm currently using that makes my Gemini lights work fine in desert ride temps. (+100°).
Mole


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Sirius9 said:


> Would someone be so nice to post a link for this lights? TY


Gemini Lights ? Action-LED-Lights


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## Ozzy43 (Mar 24, 2012)

Hey Jim what is the story with the Titan light? I've been waiting for you to post it so I can order one.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

indebt said:


> I did forget to ask about the thermal? That was one area Gemini was lacking in the past as when they stepped down, they really stepped down to the low setting. I prefer a more controlled gradual step down system like the GloWorm products. Please confirm when you have a chance if thermal has improved.


The new Xera, Duo, Olympia and Xera Flashlight are in stock. That flashlight is a super little light. Same beam and output of the standard Xera and so small. 
I have finish testing beam patterns and thermal performance. I'll get the pattern test up tomorrow. Thermal is about the same as previous models. In still air they slowly drop for the first few minutes but then suddenly drop to 10%. When they cool off they switch back to 100% but then cycle up and down until you get some air moving over them. With the increased surface area this should be no problem if you have any speed at all. But it's winter here so a real world test will be hard until summer.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Ozzy43 said:


> Hey Jim what is the story with the Titan light? I've been waiting for you to post it so I can order one.


Not yet available. I have some on order but don't have a firm ship date.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Action LED Lights said:


> The new Xera, Duo, Olympia and Xera Flashlight are in stock. That flashlight is a super little light. Same beam and output of the standard Xera and so small.
> I have finish testing beam patterns and thermal performance. I'll get the pattern test up tomorrow. Thermal is about the same as previous models. In still air they slowly drop for the first few minutes but then suddenly drop to 10%. When they cool off they switch back to 100% but then cycle up and down until you get some air moving over them. With the increased surface area this should be no problem if you have any speed at all. But it's winter here so a real world test will be hard until summer.


 First off,,, thank you for testing and sharing your results. For those of us in cold winter area's where poor thermal design isn't as much of a concern do to the temperatures, it will be an issue in the southern states or any warm winter demographic with even higher outputs this year.

Although Gemini has gotten very aggressive in pricing with more features, I'm a little disappointed their still behind the competition in thermal features. Even the MS products this year have gradual step down. Dropping down to 10% is a joke and would be a deal breaker for me if I lived in a warmer area. Hopefully this will be corrected next year.


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

indebt said:


> First off,,, thank you for testing and sharing your results. For those of us in cold winter area's where poor thermal design isn't as much of a concern do to the temperatures, it will be an issue in the southern states or any warm winter demographic with even higher outputs this year.
> 
> Although Gemini has gotten very aggressive in pricing with more features, I'm a little disappointed their still behind the competition in thermal features. Even the MS products this year have gradual step down. Dropping down to 10% is a joke and would be a deal breaker for me if I lived in a warmer area. Hopefully this will be corrected next year.


I'm not trolling when I say this, just honestly asking. Is a 10% drop really that bad? I read somewhere in an mtbr light thread that 7% drop is pretty standard. Maybe that was info was from several years ago and not pertinent any more. Maybe 3% more than average or standard is a big deviation - again, I really don't know.

Just looking for a little more clarity or context for this comment.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

mikeynets said:


> I'm not trolling when I say this, just honestly asking. Is a 10% drop really that bad? I read somewhere in an mtbr light thread that 7% drop is pretty standard. Maybe that was info was from several years ago and not pertinent any more. Maybe 3% more than average or standard is a big deviation - again, I really don't know.
> 
> Just looking for a little more clarity or context for this comment.


 No it's not bad at all if that was the case. It's a drop TO 10% output,,,,, not a 10% drop in output,,,,, pretty much unusable


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

Gotcha. That is significant. Now I'm curious to see if the 2016 lights have that issue as well.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

mikeynets said:


> Gotcha. That is significant. Now I'm curious to see if the 2016 lights have that issue as well.


 Jim at Action was saying the 2016's thermal is pretty much the same as the previous years model,, I would say it's more like about 20% but still to low. So room for improvement.


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

I live in the Bay Area so it's never very cold or hot, at least at night. I don't think the temps here are anything for me to be concerned about. I ride with someone who has an older Duo and he never has had a problem with it either. Still, seems like something that should be addressed.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Just ride faster.

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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

mikeynets said:


> I live in the Bay Area so it's never very cold or hot, at least at night. I don't think the temps here are anything for me to be concerned about. I ride with someone who has an older Duo and he never has had a problem with it either. Still, seems like something that should be addressed.


It's something that was never an issue for anyone that I've heard of unless they live in Arizona and were riding slow on a hot summer night. Now that the the lights have more surface area it should be even less of a problem.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Action LED Lights said:


> It's something that was never an issue for anyone that I've heard of unless they live in Arizona and were riding slow on a hot summer night. Now that the the lights have more surface area it should be even less of a problem.


 The lights do have a touch more surface area so that will help but they also have a big jump in output as the 2016 Xera has shown. The old one was 697lument Vs 935, so very substantial and will produce even more heat.

That been said as you mentioned, where I live I have had no issues with step down either as I don't climb on the high setting and most don't.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

*Beam testing*

Ok, I have the beam pattern test done for the new lights. I tested one of the older lights to compare it to last years test and apparently something has changed as my results came in lower. So I'll retest the older lights so we can have an accurate comparison and test the newest Gloworm lights too. In the future I'll have to come up with a way to calibrate my test setup so the results are consistent. I'll post these new test asap.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Action LED Lights said:


> Ok, I have the beam pattern test done for the new lights. I tested one of the older lights to compare it to last years test and apparently something has changed as my results came in lower. So I'll retest the older lights so we can have an accurate comparison and test the newest Gloworm lights too. In the future I'll have to come up with a way to calibrate my test setup so the results are consistent. I'll post these new test asap.
> 
> Hi Jim,
> Looks like something has definitely corrupted the data for the new light too. Doubtful the Xera out powers the Duo & Olympia in throw (which it should) and beam width (which it definitely shouldn't) or that the Olympia is weaker everywhere than the other two lights. Looking forward to the retest!
> Mole


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Action LED Lights said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, I have the beam pattern test done for the new lights. I tested one of the older lights to compare it to last years test and apparently something has changed as my results came in lower. So I'll retest the older lights so we can have an accurate comparison and test the newest Gloworm lights too. In the future I'll have to come up with a way to calibrate my test setup so the results are consistent. I'll post these new test asap.
> ...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Action LED Lights said:


> MRMOLE said:
> 
> 
> > Look at the curve colors, not the position in the legend.
> ...


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

mrmole said:


> action led lights said:
> 
> 
> > sorry, my mistake. My bad eyes got me on the colors but....... What happened to the xera's throw #'s? Looking at your legend correctly the olympia and duo show some good gains (especially since you think your calibration is giving low #s) but the xera's graph is far weaker than the previous model (not what i expected considering mtbr had measured significant lumen gains).
> ...


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

Action LED Lights said:


> mrmole said:
> 
> 
> > The Xera now shares optics with the Duo. It's my experience that smaller optics have a harder time focusing the light into a spot. So it would seem the Xera has less throw even though it has more lumens. I hope to get the old one retested this weekend and will confirm that.
> ...


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

mikeynets said:


> Action LED Lights said:
> 
> 
> > Will the beam pattern be the same for the Xera light and Xera flashlight? Does the flashlight use an optic as well?
> ...


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Action LED Lights said:


> Gemini Lights ? Action-LED-Lights


^This^


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Action LED Lights said:


> mrmole said:
> 
> 
> > The Xera now shares optics with the Duo. It's my experience that smaller optics have a harder time focusing the light into a spot. So it would seem the Xera has less throw even though it has more lumens. I hope to get the old one retested this weekend and will confirm that.
> ...


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## spankone (Aug 31, 2011)

Gemini lights have always been on my wish list for testing.along with gloworm but every year they ignore my advances like the pretty girl at a disco. 


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Maybe if you try purchasing one they wont say NO!!!


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## spankone (Aug 31, 2011)

Yeah but I'm not going to do that.  


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Say what, they dont give free lights, darn, I hate them


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

For the price ive been debating on getting a duo head to add to my collection, till I look at my collection and the pile that doesn't get used (and the other pile that does)


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

Yay!


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## Ozzy43 (Mar 24, 2012)

Have you had a chance that to run it yet... any beam shots?


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

Just picked it up. I will not be able to run it in a couple of days. Plus, it's rainy and foggy outside so it will not give any clear answers.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Woah!


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Just received an Olympia setup for test/review, and I'm impressed with the fit/finish.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

Not sure if this is new but also took delivery of the 8-cell 10400mAh battery. Very slim looking


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

It seems to be "bare" battery. Is there some outer shell/pouch/mounting? too?


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

There is


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OMFG, that light looks insane lol. Liking the use of a stick pack instead of bricks.


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## jh_on_the_cape (Jan 12, 2004)

So a 2015 duo with 4 cell on sale for $150? or a 2016 duo with 2 cell for $150?
Half the run time, which is prob. fine for me. If I am going out for 3 hours I will run it at 50%
I plan on bar mounting so the remote for 2016 is not a huge deal. I run a minewt 350 on my helmet.
What am I missing?


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> OMFG, that light looks insane lol. Liking the use of a stick pack instead of bricks.


From just pointing this one out of the porch it looks amazing. Great spread and depth. Cannot capture it on camera because of fog/rain but very very promising indeed.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

jh_on_the_cape said:


> So a 2015 duo with 4 cell on sale for $150? or a 2016 duo with 2 cell for $150?
> Half the run time, which is prob. fine for me. If I am going out for 3 hours I will run it at 50%
> I plan on bar mounting so the remote for 2016 is not a huge deal. I run a minewt 350 on my helmet.
> What am I missing?


FWIW I have the 2016 duo with the remote. Very handy, especially if you do any kind of commuting.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Trond said:


> There is


Nice pack! :thumbsup:


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

jh_on_the_cape said:


> So a 2015 duo with 4 cell on sale for $150? or a 2016 duo with 2 cell for $150?
> Half the run time, which is prob. fine for me. If I am going out for 3 hours I will run it at 50%
> I plan on bar mounting so the remote for 2016 is not a huge deal. I run a minewt 350 on my helmet.
> What am I missing?


 The 2016 Duo is using XM-L2 U-4 leds which will be brighter than the 2015's. 2015 Duo was measured at 1208 actual lumens where the new Duo will be close to 1500. If you want more runtime on the 2016 Duo Gemini or action only charge an extra $30 for a larger high end battery pack.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Just fyi, the bin change of emitters is less than 10% output increase. Unless they have to driver pushing more output to the emitters, its going to be 100-150 more lumens than the 2015 model when tested in a sphere.

Most lights dont account for variance in emitter outputs or optics losses. So new version will probably come it at around 1350-1400 lumens.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> Just fyi, the bin change of emitters is less than 10% output increase. Unless they have to driver pushing more output to the emitters, its going to be 100-150 more lumens than the 2015 model when tested in a sphere.
> 
> Most lights dont account for variance in emitter outputs or optics losses. So new version will probably come it at around 1350-1400 lumens.


 Yes I agree! I'm basing my estimate on the improvement of this years Xera which was pretty much bang on Gemini's claim for the 2016 line up and a huge jump in output over last years version. Gemini this year claim ALL their line up should be very close to claimed so this leads me to believe there has been some tweaking to the drivers.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

FYI, The Titan will be here in a week or two.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Action LED Lights said:


> FYI, The Titan will be here in a week or two.


Just looked through the last 3-4 pages in this thread. Some very impressive stuff. Damn, can't tell you how much I wish some of these ( particularly the 2016 Olympia ) were available with "Neutral LED's". ( Santa, can you tell the elf's to get some neutral LED's in ) :smilewinkgrin:

An Olympia with neutral LED's would > :rockon:


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Has anyone just emailed Gemini directly regarding the NW emitter question and pointed out the apparently overwhelming support for these on the boards?


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> ^^^Has anyone just emailed Gemini directly regarding the NW emitter question and pointed out the apparently overwhelming support for these on the boards?


Just did. We'll see what happens.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Action LED Lights said:


> Just did. We'll see what happens.


 Did as well!!


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## sdsyver (May 8, 2013)

I have two Duo and Olympia. One set is this yrs and the others are from 2013. Both are great. The new ones are definitely brighter and I love the remote. I can operate both lights from it. Have Duo on my helmet and the Olympia on my bars. Great combo. I was happy with my first set. Even happier with the new ones.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

sdsyver said:


> I have two Duo and Olympia. One set is this yrs and the others are from 2013. Both are great. The new ones are definitely brighter and I love the remote. I can operate both lights from it. Have Duo on my helmet and the Olympia on my bars. Great combo. I was happy with my first set. Even happier with the new ones.


With you running both lamp heads off one remote,,,,, are they both responding quickly so as to not go out of sequence? With my Lupines, I find my helmet light responds a millisecond slower than the bar light at times putting them out of sequence.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That sounds like a design flaw with lupine, guessing they use stepless mode control instead of percentage of output based steps. Iirc Gemini doesn't use linear control, it uses steps, so even a delay wont cause them to fall out of sync as a push of the button simply goes to next step. That's the downfall of all the fancy tech being stuffed into bike lights, makes them far more of a headache than their worth.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

TiGeo said:


> ^^^Has anyone just emailed Gemini directly regarding the NW emitter question and pointed out the apparently overwhelming support for these on the boards?


 So Chris from Gemini emailed me. The next batch of leds they order after their cool white leds are used up will be neutral white.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^and everyone loses their minds....

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

Love the 2016 Duo! Having the switch within thumb distance and the light on my helmet is just incredible. Getting great runtime with the 2 cell pack and I think the ease of the wireless remote helps that. It is effortless to manage your light output with climbing and descending on singletrack with the wireless remote. Very tempted to add am Olympia or Titan to the bars. 

Jim, will the Titan be sold as lighthead only?


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## hamsey (Nov 5, 2015)

indebt said:


> With you running both lamp heads off one remote,,,,, are they both responding quickly so as to not go out of sequence? With my Lupines, I find my helmet light responds a millisecond slower than the bar light at times putting them out of sequence.


In, Which Lupines are you running? Looking at putting together a bar and helmet set but the out of sequence would drive me bulls__t.

Anyone know when the Gemini neutral whites will be available?


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

hamsey said:


> In, Which Lupines are you running? Looking at putting together a bar and helmet set but the out of sequence would drive me bulls__t.
> 
> Anyone know when the Gemini neutral whites will be available?


 I'm running the first version of Betty-R's (non Bluetooth).

I spoke to Gemini and as soon as they have used up the XM-L2 U4's they have in stock they will be ordering Neutral leds from Cree on their very next order. Timeline is based on how quickly they sell the first batch.


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

jn35646 said:


> Getting great runtime with the 2 cell pack and I think the ease of the wireless remote helps that.


2 hours? When they get the NW emitters I'm getting the Duo. Just trying to figure out if I get the 2 cell or 4.


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## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

mikeynets said:


> 2 hours? When they get the NW emitters I'm getting the Duo. Just trying to figure out if I get the 2 cell or 4.


2 hours on high for the 2 cell pack would be a stretch for sure, probably 1.5 hours. The light lasts for 2 hour rides no problem since it is so easy to adjust the output based on need. I find that I use the switch on my bars much like a dropper post...as needed. It really sips battery power on low and that is all you need when climbing...which makes up 2/3 of the riding where I am. Only run on high for descents.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

jn35646 said:


> 2 hours on high for the 2 cell pack would be a stretch for sure, probably 1.5 hours. The light lasts for 2 hour rides no problem since it is so easy to adjust the output based on need. I find that I use the switch on my bars much like a dropper post...as needed. It really sips battery power on low and that is all you need when climbing...which makes up 2/3 of the riding where I am. Only run on high for descents.


Yeah I guess I should've been clearer. 2 hour ride time while toggling between outputs is what I was looking for. Sounds like it's up to the task!


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

mikeynets said:


> 2 hours? When they get the NW emitters I'm getting the Duo. Just trying to figure out if I get the 2 cell or 4.


Four cell for sure. Why chance it for the weight of two extra cells? What happens near the end of the battery lifespan when it is only at 70-80% of its new capacity? What happens when it is cold out? Why have a razor-slim margin? For me the only debate is 4 vs 6 cell.

I really don't see you making two hours on a two-cell, even with changing modes.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

As for NW, I am not convinced it is so obvious that is the way to go. It may be, but it seems like six of one, half dozen of the other.

You get less light in exchange for better color quality. It would be a no-brainer if you were going to use the light as a graphic arts professional. But you are illuminating rocks and trees. I don't see anyone complaining that their Porsche, Audi, or BMW does not have 5500 degree color temp or a certain CRI for their headlights.


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## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

rsilvers said:


> Four cell for sure. Why chance it for the weight of two extra cells? What happens near the end of the battery lifespan when it is only at 70-80% of its new capacity? What happens when it is cold out? Why have a razor-slim margin? For me the only debate is 4 vs 6 cell.
> 
> I really don't see you making two hours on a two-cell, even with changing modes.


I get plenty of runtime with the 2 cell and it is soooo light on my helmet. However, I've used 4 cell packs on my helmet and it only felt cumbersome the moment I put it on my head...heck, I even use a heavy helmet (Bell Super). 4 cell would be a great for peace of mind, totally agree. I just think that with having the remote next to my grips that I dim the light a lot when climbing and that makes the runtime really good. Was out for just about 2 hours the other night and for the first time got the indicator on the back of the Duo to turn amber (50%-25%). Oddly, that was only when running on high as it was still green on medium/low.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

I would get two cell if I wanted the battery on my helmet. You could have a backup light on the bars. 

I plan to keep my helmet battery in my backpack.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

rsilvers said:


> As for NW, I am not convinced it is so obvious that is the way to go. It may be, but it seems like six of one, half dozen of the other.
> 
> You get less light in exchange for better color quality. It would be a no-brainer if you were going to use the light as a graphic arts professional. But you are illuminating rocks and trees. I don't see anyone complaining that their Porsche, Audi, or BMW does not have 5500 degree color temp or a certain CRI for their headlights.


Actually was already pointed out the color temp of those cars is 5000k. And most arent after the high cri the few of us light geeks like to play with. All my lights are 3c or 3d tint, have a flashlight that's "high cri". Difference isn't enough the avg user would notice.

And you don't get more light from cool white, have NO CLUE where you got that. The lumen output is the same. They APPEAR brighter due to glare, but lumen output is no different. Color temp DOES NOT determine output. Emitter bin does. Xm-l2 puts out the same lumens per bin regardless of color temp. But anything warmer than 4700-5000k color temp doesn't come in the higher bins yet. But the lumen output is only a few % lower, less than 5% per bin level. And margin of variation is that much. So it easily cancels out till you get to the really warm tints.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> Actually was already pointed out the color temp of those cars is 5000k.


Audi?s LED headlights are key feature in Super Bowl ad - LEDs

They are typically ~5500 while NW is typically ~4350.

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/XLampXML2.pdf

CW is typically ~6650 - which is equal to being in the shade during the day.



tigris99 said:


> And you don't get more light from cool white, have NO CLUE where you got that. The lumen output is the same. Color temp DOES NOT determine output. Emitter bin does.


The bins are just how they sort the yield after they make the product. So yes, if they can make the same bin and sell it for the same price, but CW goes to higher bins (two bins higher). This means that it is harder to make NW output as much light as CW, so color temp does effect the output.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So 2 bins higher, fit into a bike light, the difference is insanely small, and the higher bins are only seen in higher end lights where companies can afford to update bins constantly. On a dual emitter your talking max 100 lumens difference if they can get the newest and highest cool white bin. Unless you have 2 matching lights side by side with the different emitters and staring at both beams, you will NEVER notice a difference.

And were talking NW as in NEUTRAL white, not natural/warm white. 2 different things. Natural is what we consider warm/high cri. Neutral is the middle ground. Higher output, 5k color temp roughly, slight yellow or reddish tint to the light.

And again your missing half the details, trying to use "shade" and "overcast" as comparisons has little to do with led lighting for these purposes. 

Just like your comparing on road use against off road use, the opposite of each other. road lights your lighting up pavement and need some lateral illumination. Its a freaking smooth road. Nor offroad where every detail seen possible can be the difference between a crash or hitting the right line.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

97 more lumens at 2 amps per emitter for the top bin of each. That is about a 12% difference. 

The benefit of NW is the higher CRI - 10 more, which is good. Is that worth losing 12% of the light? 

For me, probably. I like CRI. Not for everyone. And they would have to reduce their lumen claim if they were into publishing correct specs (or drive the emitters to a higher output with more heat).


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> And were talking NW as in NEUTRAL white, not natural/warm white. 2 different things. Natural is what we consider warm/high cri. Neutral is the middle ground. Higher output, 5k color temp roughly, slight yellow or reddish tint to the light.


Nope. What Cree markets as NEUTRAL white is 4350 on average in their spec sheet. Warm is 3150.

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/XLampXML2.pdf


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

12% is best case scenario. Your missing half the details. Like error margin and everything else. That gap closes really fast especially when there is no lights out that are 2 bins higher. Cw bins go u4, NW go to u3 now. I know cause the light im reviewing has u3 3c emitters. So 40ish lumens but the NW can produce 5-6% more while u4 can produce minimum, so difference then cancels out.



And find me a light besides the most expensive that's run u4 bin. you can't. Well except ones just now being released or really expensive. Ya before it would be 2 bins, not now. Lumens are NEVER everything, only to the uneducated are they. Its the quality of how the lumens are used.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

We can debate the value of lumens vs light quality. I tend to prefer light quality also.

But I just wanted to point out that there is a reason why not everyone is using warmer and higher CRI emitters that goes beyond preference for cooler vs warmer hues. It is not win win. It is a tradeoff between lumens, cost, and CRI.

The lights with better CRI are harder to make with as many lumens per watt. This is even true of you buy a CREE lamp at Home Depot. They have the $5 ones, and the $16 ones with higher CRI. Both are about 9 watts. The lower-CRI one has more lumens and lower cost.

For the home, I would taker the higher CRI for sure - except for the cost difference. I bought a few hundred LEDs for my home and 300 lamps at $5 vs 300 at $16 is a big difference. Same when a bike-light company has to buy a lot of something.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya its a personal preference. I was just trying to clarify for full info so there was "both sides". And I HATE cool white lol.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

If Gemini has in fact made the 2016 DUO be 1500 lumens, and they change to NW, then the light will become 1350 lumens. I wonder if they would list that in the spec sheet.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Actually not, if duo uses u4, itd loose 5% going NW by going 3c u3


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## heavyd66 (Mar 11, 2012)

Any discount codes for Action-led? About to buy myself a 2016 Gemini Duo Light Set for Christmas.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

heavyd66 said:


> Any discount codes for Action-led? About to buy myself a 2016 Gemini Duo Light Set for Christmas.


 I dont think so. The 2016 Duo ($149) has already been discounted from the $229 2015 price,,,, and is brighter and has wireless remote. So pretty good deal. That's a nice gift for yourself,,,,, enjoy!!!


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Mine comes tomorrow (4-cell 2016).


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Trond said:


> From just pointing this one out of the porch it looks amazing. Great spread and depth. Cannot capture it on camera because of fog/rain but very very promising indeed.


 Have you had a chance to get the Titan out for a ride yet? Do you have any other high powered lights to compare the performance and beam pattern of the Titan to?


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

indebt said:


> Have you had a chance to get the Titan out for a ride yet? Do you have any other high powered lights to compare the performance and beam pattern of the Titan to?


Hi!

Sorry, not yet. Mostly running lately for me (and trainer). The only ride I used it I got back before it was necessary to use the light. But it is quite small and it does not bounce around when technical. Spread seems very nice.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)




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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

rsilvers said:


>


Link seems to be broken


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

*Titan Light Set*

Can we get some dimensions on the spacing for the Titan's mounting hole to mounting hole for those of us who might want to run these lights on riser bars please?

Does anyone have beam shots of this particular model? Trond, any developments as of yet?

Thanks in advance.


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

I just had my first ride on my fat bike using the 2015 Xera light with the 2 cell battery. They advertise the run time as 2 hours. It was 30 degrees out, and I ran it on high for 1 hour and 7 minutes on my helmet and got done with my ride to find the battery indicator flashing red. I am bummed by the run time. My Dinotte XML3 is pretty close to stated run times at these temps, maybe not as much when it gets to be -10, but around freezing its pretty close. I put the Dinotte battery on the bottom of the stem, exposed to the cold, but the Gemini I put in an interior pocket of my jacket so I am surprised. Regretting buying the 2 cell battery at this point, because when it gets cold, it will be useless due to the short run time. It performed well, but I shouldn't have trusted the stated run times on the web.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I don't have the light obviously but I have those exact bars (my mukluk) and a few different riser bars. I can say with 110% certainty seeing the above pics those lights will fit just fine on risers unless you have some 3" riser bars. I have 13mm up to 30mm risers, aluminum except my sixc bars and I can fit triple emitter lights bigger than a glowworm xs on either side with more gap between mounts and stem.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Snopro440 said:


> I just had my first ride on my fat bike using the 2015 Xera light with the 2 cell battery. They advertise the run time as 2 hours. It was 30 degrees out, and I ran it on high for 1 hour and 7 minutes on my helmet and got done with my ride to find the battery indicator flashing red. I am bummed by the run time. My Dinotte XML3 is pretty close to stated run times at these temps, maybe not as much when it gets to be -10, but around freezing its pretty close. I put the Dinotte battery on the bottom of the stem, exposed to the cold, but the Gemini I put in an interior pocket of my jacket so I am surprised. Regretting buying the 2 cell battery at this point, because when it gets cold, it will be useless due to the short run time. It performed well, but I shouldn't have trusted the stated run times on the web.


 Was that the 1st time you used that light? The reason why I'm asking is out of all the different light sets I've had my hands on over the years (16+sets) there have been times that the battery's needed a few cycles in them to perform as advertised.

Also no matter how good quality of a product I purchase, I always do a couple of run time tests at home with the light set up in front of a 10" fan outside to make sure there is no step down. This always gives me piece of mind so I know exactly what my max runtime is. There are many lights that will still run on the high setting well after the red indicator is showing. That been said for yours to be red after just one hour seems a bit premature and could be as mentioned above, needs a couple of cycles through it if it's a brand new light. If its already had several cycles through it just do the runtime test to be sure. If your getting less than 1:50 then the capacity is down a bit but not bad for cold weather. If its less than 1:30 then the battery may be out of balance or just has a week cell.

Also,,, NEVER charge a cold battery!! Let it warm up to room temperature then charge. Charging a cold battery will kill it.


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

indebt said:


> Was that the 1st time you used that light? The reason why I'm asking is out of all the different light sets I've had my hands on over the years (16+sets) there have been times that the battery's needed a few cycles in them to perform as advertised.
> 
> Also no matter how good quality of a product I purchase, I always do a couple of run time tests at home with the light set up in front of a 10" fan outside to make sure there is no step down. This always gives me piece of mind so I know exactly what my max runtime is. There are many lights that will still run on the high setting well after the red indicator is showing. That been said for yours to be red after just one hour seems a bit premature and could be as mentioned above, needs a couple of cycles through it if it's a brand new light. If its already had several cycles through it just do the runtime test to be sure. If your getting less than 1:50 then the capacity is down a bit but not bad for cold weather. If its less than 1:30 then the battery may be out of balance or just has a week cell.
> 
> Also,,, NEVER charge a cold battery!! Let it warm up to room temperature then charge. Charging a cold battery will kill it.


It had only been charged twice, so I was hoping it will get better. If it doesn't I would probably buy another Dinotte as I have been really happy with it, even though the light weighs a fair bit more than the Xera. I never charge a cold battery for the same reason you listed.

The combination of the Dinotte XML3 on the bars at about 1600 lumens plus the Gemini on my helmet with about 950 lumens worked great. I hope this Gemini works out!!!


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Your battery is not going to get better.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Snopro, no decent light is going to give much beyond an hour on a 2 cell, especially at 30deg. Your problems are both temperature and choosing a 2 cell pack.


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

Well, then why do they advertise it at 2 hours? I understand that at low temperatures the life is shorter, but the battery is kept in an inside pocket of a jacket, against my body, so it isn't really even that cold so it shouldn't be an issue. It hasn't been an issue with my Dinotte, Niterider or even with my cheap Magicshine knock off, so I can't see why it would be with the Gemini. If the run time doesn't get better, I will contact the business I bought it from to see what they have to say.



tigris99 said:


> Snopro, no decent light is going to give much beyond an hour on a 2 cell, especially at 30deg. Your problems are both temperature and choosing a 2 cell pack.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

I ride in 30 degree weather all the time. Your battery should get at least 1:45 unless you have a faulty battery or charger that's not giving a full charge. My Duo is only 150 more measured lumens than your Xera and I get four hours on a full charge with my four cell. These are good battery's and should give close to advertised run times.

Do a run time test with a full battery in front of a good fan and I'm guessing you should get at least 1:45 of run time.


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

I will give it a go and see what happens.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

It sucks when things don't go as expected but I do think if nothing is faulty you will get close to advertised run time. My Duo's four cell is on the top tube more exposed than your battery so give it a try, make sure the lamp head is touching the area of the fan closer to the outer blades as that should give you best air flow. Good luck and keep us in the loop. Cheers!!


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

indebt said:


> It sucks when things don't go as expected but I do think if nothing is faulty you will get close to advertised run time. My Duo's four cell is on the top tube more exposed than your battery so give it a try, make sure the lamp head is touching the area of the fan closer to the outer blades as that should give you best air flow. Good luck and keep us in the loop. Cheers!!


Test is underway. Went to Orange at 55 minutes...
Red at 1:01


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Snopro440 said:


> Test is underway. Went to Orange at 55 minutes...
> Red at 1:01


 Seeing that you haven't reported back yet I'm hoping its still running. Cheers!!


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

Yeah, flashing red at 1:41


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

So it shut off at ?????????


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

I managed to fall asleep so I'm not sure actually........... I remember seeing 2:38 and it was still going but I don't know past that. The temperature must really effect the battery more on this system than any I have used before.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Are you sure the lamp head was in the best position in front of the fan while doing your test. Seems the thermal must have kicked in to get 2:38 after the battery was flashing red at 1:41? Could you tell if it was still on the high setting? The whole thing seems off. I know a light can run for quite a while after showing red which is what happens if I use my old MS Bak four cell battery with my Xera or Duo, but I don't have that happen when using my Gemini battery, hmm.


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

I was wondering about it too. I had the light about 8 inches in front of a large fan at the end of the blades. When I looked at 2:38 it still seemed pretty bright, but not as bright as it had been, plus the lamp head was perfectly cool so protection must have kicked in, I'm just not sure when.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Some brands of lights will by default power down once they hit that (flashing red) indicating the drop in voltage. Maybe that's what happened.

When I do runtime tests with my Betty-R's, I actually have the lamp heads resting against the housing of the fan. At full power outside in about 40 degree temperature I never have step down. With those lights they stay at full power till the end of which the lamp heads will flash for around ten seconds then shut off. They do have a (reserve mode) that you can turn back on but at very low output to get you out of the woods or if carrying a spare battery to swap out.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

indebt said:


> Some brands of lights will by default power down once they hit that (flashing red) indicating the drop in voltage. Maybe that's what happened.
> 
> When I do runtime tests with my Betty-R's, I actually have the lamp heads resting against the housing of the fan. At full power outside in about 40 degree temperature I never have step down. With those lights they stay at full power till the end of which the lamp heads will flash for around ten seconds then shut off. They do have a (reserve mode) that you can turn back on but at very low output to get you out of the woods or if carrying a spare battery to swap out.


Actually that's not a "setting". The light loosing power when the light starts flashing red is because the light drops out of regulation. The pack voltage drops continuously while the light is in use. One that pack voltage becomes lower than the requirement of the head, the driver drips out of regulation and Emitters just run off of what last remaining power they can suck from the pack.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> Actually that's not a "setting". The light loosing power when the light starts flashing red is because the light drops out of regulation. The pack voltage drops continuously while the light is in use. One that pack voltage becomes lower than the requirement of the head, the driver drips out of regulation and Emitters just run off of what last remaining power they can suck from the pack.


 That pretty much sounds like what happened to Snopro440's Xera. It still seems off though for it to run another (hour) off a two cell battery after the lamp head flashed red. Other lights that I've had that behave as you have indicated never ran for an hour once the lamp head indicated the end of runtime with flashing red.

What is your experience with that tigris99,, is that normal behavior?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No his issue was thermal step down more than likely. There's no way he got more than about 2 hrs from a 2 cell pack on high unless A) the light was stepped down to a lower mode or B) way over discharged the cells.

B) is all but impossible in this case. So thermal step down is the remaining option.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

*Optional Xera/Duo Optics*

We contacted an optic vendor in China and got an assortment of optics that fit the 2016 Xera and Duo (they use the same optic) Here are the results using our beam pattern test setup. 
The stock optic curve is of course what comes with the light. 
We have a 10˚ spot lens which gives a better pattern than the stock optic shaving a little off the sides and putting it into more throw.
The 25˚*optic did little over the stock optic, just adding a little to the widest part of the beam.
The 45˚ is very effective making a nice wide pattern that would turn the light into a nice head lamp for trail running or the like.
The 60˚seems to only waste part of the light that the 45˚ uses so I guess we won't be stocking that one but the 10˚*spot and 45˚ flood are a nice addition and are now on our site.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

Action LED Lights said:


> We contacted an optic vendor in China and got an assortment of optics that fit the 2016 Xera and Duo (they use the same optic) Here are the results using our beam pattern test setup.
> The stock optic curve is of course what comes with the light.
> We have a 10˚ spot lens which gives a better pattern than the stock optic shaving a little off the sides and putting it into more throw.
> The 25˚*optic did little over the stock optic, just adding a little to the widest part of the beam.
> ...


The 10deg is an obvious upgrade, but you're losing a tremendous amount of light with the 45deg.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

BmoreKen said:


> The 10deg is an obvious upgrade, but you're losing a tremendous amount of light with the 45deg.


It always looks like a big loss but the light in that outer circle is lighting a much larger area. If you shine the light out to where the spot is lighting a 5ft diameter circle that's 19.6 square feet. Spread it out to a 10ft circle and it's 78.5 square feet.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

Action LED Lights said:


> It always looks like a big loss but the light in that outer circle is lighting a much larger area. If you shine the light out to where the spot is lighting a 5ft diameter circle that's 19.6 square feet. Spread it out to a 10ft circle and it's 78.5 square feet.


Full width half maximum of the stock gives 300 lumen at 10deg from boresite. For the 45deg, FWHM is ~140 lumen at 14deg. Yes, the 45deg is illuminating a larger area but that may be the problem: most would say they're interested in a wider beam but not a taller beam, as the light energy above the trail is unnecessary and in this case is lost.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

BmoreKen said:


> Full width half maximum of the stock gives 300 lumen at 10deg from boresite. For the 45deg, FWHM is ~140 lumen at 14deg. Yes, the 45deg is illuminating a larger area but that may be the problem: most would say they're interested in a wider beam but not a taller beam, as the light energy above the trail is unnecessary and in this case is lost.


This is purely a matter of personal preference. If you ride densely wooded single track you'll learn real fast after a storm why a "cut off" beam pattern is a bad idea. And its not a waste if you tilt you lights at a downward angle.

And Action was nice enough to source and stock other optics options for the lights (optics many of us will love having a US vender for them). Its not their fault there is limited options. They could have done anything instead.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> This is purely a matter of personal preference. If you ride densely wooded single track you'll learn real fast after a storm why a "cut off" beam pattern is a bad idea. And its not a waste if you tilt you lights at a downward angle.
> 
> And Action was nice enough to source and stock other optics options for the lights (optics many of us will love having a US vender for them). Its not their fault there is limited options. They could have done anything instead.


Sorry, not trying to disparage Action. I'm maybe a little grumpy because of Snowzilla.

But a 10deg optic would give you sufficient height in the beam to see branches, etc. So IMO, a great optic would give you 10deg vertical and 30deg horizontal.

Speaking of which, a friend nearly knocked himself unconscious on an early dawn patrol ride when he hit a suspended fallen tree that had shifted - it was high enough you didn't need to duck, but it had shifted a bit and now requires you to duck as you go under. Had he been riding with a helmet light he probably would have see it. I'm pretty sure he now rides with a helmet light in tandem with a bar light.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

BmoreKen said:


> But a 10deg optic would give you sufficient height in the beam to see branches, etc. _So IMO, a great optic would give you 10deg vertical and 30deg horizontal._


That's probably about what you get with a Gloworm XS wide-angle optic. I've had excellent results using this optic in older Duo, Yinding and BT21 lights but I'm not sure yet if they will fit the 2016 model Duo and Xera. Jim told me the 2016 Duo/Xera optic is different than the older Duo and would let me know if they were interchangeable. 
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mr mole corrupted me on wide angle, just 10/30 is way to narrow. 10 for me is for the lid, way to tight for bars. 20/45 is nice mixed with a 25ish spot. Im still playing with optics partially because im getting more and more to preferring more light on the lid than the bars. 

Its hard to find perfection lol.


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## chuckji (Feb 7, 2008)

Any update on the NW emitters? I wan to order a Duo, but not until I can get it with NW.
Thanks.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

chuckji said:


> Any update on the NW emitters? I wan to order a Duo, but not until I can get it with NW.
> Thanks.


Yep, I'd like to have NW emitters in a Duo as well. I guess we'll just have wait to see if they decide to offer NW. Glad to hear that Gemini is providing extra optics for the 2016 Duo. Always nice to have choices.

Just the other day I was thinking that if you could run two Duo's off of one remote, use a combo of narrow and medium optics, you could mount two Duo's on the helmet and likely get an excellent medium wide beam pattern with decent throw. It would likely require two batteries to provide the ummph but I bet it would be bright as all get-out! Now as long as both lamps can be programmed to operate from one ( wireless ) remote, it should function as one lamp with both lamps changing to the same mode at the same time.

Anyway, if Gemini doesn't offer NW hopefully Gloworm will soon offer a wireless remote. If they do I know what lamps I'll be ordering. 

Of course I do have reservations about using a wireless remote...I feel any lamp with wireless remote should also have a "wired on-board" mode button as well...just in case the battery on the remote dies at the wrong time.


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## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yep, I'd like to have NW emitters in a Duo as well. I guess we'll just have wait to see if they decide to offer NW. Glad to hear that Gemini is providing extra optics for the 2016 Duo. Always nice to have choices.
> 
> Just the other day I was thinking that if you could run two Duo's off of one remote, use a combo of narrow and medium optics, you could mount two Duo's on the helmet and likely get an excellent medium wide beam pattern with decent throw. It would likely require two batteries to provide the ummph but I bet it would be bright as all get-out! Now as long as both lamps can be programmed to operate from one ( wireless ) remote, it should function as one lamp with both lamps changing to the same mode at the same time.
> 
> ...


Geminis have a button on them. I forgot my remote on another bike and was glad of it!

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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yep, I'd like to have NW emitters in a Duo as well. I guess we'll just have wait to see if they decide to offer NW. Glad to hear that Gemini is providing extra optics for the 2016 Duo. Always nice to have choices.
> 
> Just the other day I was thinking that if you could run two Duo's off of one remote, use a combo of narrow and medium optics, you could mount two Duo's on the helmet and likely get an excellent medium wide beam pattern with decent throw. It would likely require two batteries to provide the ummph but I bet it would be bright as all get-out! Now as long as both lamps can be programmed to operate from one ( wireless ) remote, it should function as one lamp with both lamps changing to the same mode at the same time.
> 
> ...


Hey Cat, 
All Gemini has said about NW is that they would build some with their next production run. No idea when that might be. I depends on how many they have in inventory and demand.
Second, Gemini isn't offering optic choices, Action LED Lights is. I bought a wide variety and found the ones that fit and work best.
Running two Duo's (or any combination of Duo/Olympia/Titan) off one remote works well. The light pairs with whatever remote is sees first after plugging in the battery and as long as their both in the same mode when paired they will stay in the same mode. If their not hold the remote button in for 3 seconds to turn them both off and then turn them both on with the remote.
The plan for the Gloworm wireless remote would include a button on the receiver so if you loose the remote your still good.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

chuckji said:


> Any update on the NW emitters? I wan to order a Duo, but not until I can get it with NW.
> Thanks.


 Spoke to Chris at Gemini,,,, looks like the neutral tint lights will be rolling out around March. He stated that from that point on they will not be using cool white emitters.


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## Adam Filby (Sep 3, 2014)

indebt said:


> Spoke to Chris at Gemini,,,, looks like the neutral tint lights will be rolling out around March. He stated that from that point on they will not be using cool white emitters.


Any one have any word on this?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Adam Filby said:


> Any one have any word on this?


The "neutral white" emitters used on the Duo-R I'm testing are at the highest end of the neutral range. Some will like it and some won't. I personally prefer a slightly warmer output but it will be up to Gemini to decide what emitters they are going to use when they roll out the production models.

I'm guessing that the temp range of the Gemini emitters are around 5000K ( Kelvin ). When I first received the Duo-R I thought maybe there had been a mistake and that I had received one of the original versions because to my eyes the output still appeared cool white. It was only when I compared the new Duo to my older Gloworms I could tell that the output was indeed slightly warmer. The difference though is very minute. When at it's highest level of output you almost can't tell it's a neutral white emitter setup.

My opinion on this is that when a lamp is designed for higher outputs that it is more important that the temperature range of the emitter tint be properly matched. Higher outputs usually mean more close in light that will impact the area close to the bike first. To mimimalize close-in reflective glare it helps to have the proper "neutral" temperature range so that the human eye is able to more effectively use the higher output.

The neutral bin used on the current Duo's are going to appear to be much brighter at first glance. Under certain conditions there might be some advantage to this but going forward I would like a slightly warmer bin, more akin to what is being used with the Gloworms X2's ( with neutral emitters ).

In the mean time I'm hoping that Gemini chooses to go with a slightly warmer bin for the production of the Olympia's ( if not for the Duo's ).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

If the difference is slight versus an x2, the color temp is going to be more between 5500-6000k. Most of the neutral white lights we have messed with are 3c (4750-5000k). I'd venture to guess 2c maybe 3b. 

I just got some 3b tint in so once I get the head finished for them I'll do a tint comparison. I know I can see a difference between my x2 with cw (havent changed them yet) and my Xeccon z10 (6000k/2c) when side by side. But till I got it next to a cool white light it was hard to tell.

Similar to your preferences, I find cooler tints less bothersome in the winter. But only in snow and dry air. The glare with the blueish tint bothers me if high moisture content in the air. Trails are still lacking any growth but I like my 3c/5000k tints better than anything.

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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> *If the difference is slight versus an x2, the color temp is going to be more between 5500-6000k. Most of the neutral white lights we have messed with are 3c (4750-5000k). I'd venture to guess 2c maybe 3b. *
> 
> I just got some 3b tint in so once I get the head finished for them I'll do a tint comparison. I know I can see a difference between my x2 with cw (havent changed them yet) and my Xeccon z10 (6000k/2c) when side by side. But till I got it next to a cool white light it was hard to tell.
> 
> ...


Yes, the Duo could be using a 2C tint but definitely the bin is U2, says it right on the board. Not long ago I ordered a torch from Mt. Electronics that was specifically _ordered and set-up with XM-L2 U2 3C ( listed as between 4750-5000K )_. When I got the torch I kept thinking that somehow they made a mistake because the tint was no where near as warm as any of the other neutral lamps I had ( highly disappointed ). The neutral Duo is very near the same tint as my torch, maybe even a bit cooler. Hard to tell as I'm comparing a duel emitter set-up using spot optics with a torch using a single emitter and reflector. ( Note ; Mt. electronics no longer is listing the emitter I ordered, which gives me pause to speculate......_maybe they ran out of U2 and gave me a U3 3C?...which is listed more near 5700-6000K_ :skep: )

Anyway, the 2C tint is very close to the 5700K range on the ANSI white scale. Looks like if I want something warmer I might have to drop down to a T6 bin and use either ( 4C or 4B ). It won't be as bright but the tint should be good.

Maybe it's just me but I keep thinking that when the bin of the emitter changes ( from T6 > U2 > U3...etc ) that the output is going to look colder due to the increase lumen output regardless of the tint option. Mt. Electronics is now selling a XM-L2 U3 and offering a 3D option. That may be worth looking into. Wish I knew what Gloworm was using in their neutral lamps.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> ......Hard to tell as I'm comparing a duel emitter set-up using spot optics with a torch using a single emitter and reflector.


Yes, IME, this is a poor way to compare tints. Optics seem to have a far greater affect on the apparent tint of a light than reflectors. I believe that some wavelengths of light are absorbed by the optic material causing a shift in apparent tint. A while back my son and I were dong some tests with a cool white XHP70. When fitted with a Fraen reflector, the tint was still a very cool white. We also fitted a Ledil Iris optic and the resulting tint was much warmer and the apparent output seemed lower.



Cat-man-do said:


> ......I might have to drop down to a T6 bin and use either ( 4C or 4B ). It won't be as bright but the tint should be good.


4C is a pretty nice tint IMO. 3C is my fave though.


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## Legendofzelda (Mar 28, 2016)

anyone have night shots of the Gemini Titan? I'd like to see some beam shots of the 6 headed monster...


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## KiwiJohn (Feb 6, 2007)

> anyone have night shots of the Gemini Titan? I'd like to see some beam shots of the 6 headed monster...


The array.

The beam;

Only one ride so far & I just threw the old Duos on for a laugh. The side beams on the Titan could be spread a bit wider, then I wouldn't bother with the Duos as well. 
The only other issue is the silicon bands are a bit flexy, so the light can wobble a bit.


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## Legendofzelda (Mar 28, 2016)

I'm so glad you shared this image. Are you happy with the Titan? I just ordered but now I'm worried the beam may be too narrow.

I was hoping for a monster light with good spread and distance.




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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Legendofzelda said:


> I was hoping for a monster light with good spread and distance.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Optics are easy to change. Action-LED-Lights has wide angle and super spot optics for this light and my favorite Gloworm optics (XS) will also fit.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I don't think his picture is doing the Titan justice lol. Camera obviously trying to deal with the spot intensity is my guess. But you can tell that this is a beast of a light.

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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Legendofzelda said:


> I'm so glad you shared this image. Are you happy with the Titan? I just ordered but now I'm worried the beam may be too narrow.
> 
> *I was hoping for a monster light with good spread and distance.*
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've never seen one of these myself but one of the things I noticed while messing around with the new Duo is that even though most of the light is projected forward the lamp has a lot of spill ( even with spot optics ). With a lamp with this much pure output you don't want the optics to provide too much flood. If it were me I might try a couple stock floods for the hell of it to see if I needed it but personally I doubt that I'd be able to tell much of a difference once I start riding with the lamp. Nope, in order to get a really noticeable flood you would likely have to use all flood optics. It would kill some of the throw but you would probably get more of what you're looking for. Of course if you did that than you are going to be dealing with lots of close in reflective glare ( on the higher output levels ).

The thought just occurred to me, I wonder what the lowest output is with the titan? I figure it has to pull some juice once you get to the higher levels. An 8-cell battery would be a must....I'm assuming you are running the two duos on the helmet? If so you shouldn't be worrying about not being able to see a wide path


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## KiwiJohn (Feb 6, 2007)

High beam is overkill, medium is more than adequate. 
iPhone probably not the best for taking night photos & a shot on the trail would probably be a better indication of the beam. I'll see what I can do this weekend.


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## Legendofzelda (Mar 28, 2016)

I searched all over the place on the Titan. There isnt much info online or on the forums. No pictures or forum posts on it.


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## KiwiJohn (Feb 6, 2007)

Here's a better shot out on the trail with a proper camera.

Plenty of spread on flowing trails. Could only use more spread on really tight trails. I've only ever ridden with bar mount lights, so don't have a problem with. 
I might get some flood optics to try since they're pretty cheap.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh ya that's got some kick to it, very nice

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## Legendofzelda (Mar 28, 2016)

My Gemini Titan just arrived. Ordered from Action LED. It's bright, very bright. It makes my Xeccon Sogn 700 seem dim. I had the two outer lenses switched to the Gloworm XS flood lense, but it didn't make much difference. So far, I think the beam profile is probably good enough out of the box. To give some context, I pointed it over my balcony down into the street and it overpowers the street lights from 7 stories up. 


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I honestly can't see any need for flood optics on a 6 XM-L emitter light. Even with spot optics there would still be plenty of spill for seeing close to the bike.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Legendofzelda said:


> My Gemini Titan just arrived. Ordered from Action LED. It's bright, very bright. It makes my Xeccon Sogn 700 seem dim. I had the two outer lenses switched to the Gloworm XS flood lense, but it didn't make much difference. So far, I think the beam profile is probably good enough out of the box. To give some context, I pointed it over my balcony down into the street and it overpowers the street lights from 7 stories up.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry you've missed all the posts I've made regarding Gloworm optics. The XS floods are the only ones I would not recommend. The GW spots would have given you a noticeable increase in throw over the stock Gemini optics and if you wanted to widen the beam the XS wide-angle (elliptical style) optics are what you should have ordered. My understanding from reading reviews of the 2016 Duo (same optics as Titan) is that the stock Gemini optics have a fairly wide beam so I'm not sure how much if any the XS wide-angles would widen your beam (I would consult Jim @ Action on this) but I do know they have a much wider spread than the XS floods. 
Mole


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

The XS wide's are what we fixed him up with. 2 of them did make for some more spill but with 4 spots over powering them it's almost hard to tell.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Action LED Lights said:


> The XS wide's are what we fixed him up with. 2 of them did make for some more spill but with 4 spots over powering them it's almost hard to tell.


Thanks for the clarification. Are you going to make a beam pattern graph for the new Titan soon (and include the super spots optics too)?
Mole


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## Legendofzelda (Mar 28, 2016)

I have a computer on my bike so the Titan doesnt fit on the bars. How can I mount it lower?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Legendofzelda said:


> I have a computer on my bike so the Titan doesnt fit on the bars. How can I mount it lower?


Post a pic of your bar and computer. It will help others better understand the interference.

Probably a couple of my GoPro adapters for the Gemini Duo used with a couple of my GoPro mounts shown in this thread...

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/new-gopro-mounts-1002310.html

Would let you come up with a mounting position that would clear your computer.


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## Legendofzelda (Mar 28, 2016)

here's a few pics









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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Damn I was going to suggest a bar extender. Doesn't look like that would work with the Titan. It's a whole city block o lights!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

You've got a lot of stuff on there!


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## Legendofzelda (Mar 28, 2016)

its an electric bike 


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Legendofzelda said:


> I have a computer on my bike so the Titan doesnt fit on the bars. How can I mount it lower?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I Googled your light and all the pictures showed the light centered over the stem (where your computer is). If your light has clearance mounted that way you should be able to mount it centered under the bar upside-down and have similar clearance. Each individual optic has a symmetrical beam pattern so this will not effect the overall beam pattern. If it fits you need to make sure the light doesn't hit the frame when turned full lock side to side. I'm just guessing this might work from looking at the pictures of your bar arrangement. If it does please post a picture for us.
Mole


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## Legendofzelda (Mar 28, 2016)

almost fits. it falls off center. see pics










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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Legendofzelda said:


> almost fits. it falls off center. see pics
> 
> 
> 
> ...











So it looks like the computer mount is the problem mounted this way. I found this mount (above picture) on the Action-Led-Lights website and you may be able to mount one on each side of the computer mount (tabs facing in) and then mount the Titan to the mounting tabs.
Mole


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## Legendofzelda (Mar 28, 2016)

i cant see how this would fit the odd shape of the Titan. Any idea?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I don't think mounting it under the bar will be very good. Too many cables, wires, etc will be in the beam.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Legendofzelda said:


> i cant see how this would fit the odd shape of the Titan. Any idea?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


From what I can see you only lack a little space to get it to fit. If you mounted one of the bar/light mounted on each side of your computer mount with the tabs facing in then you should be able to line them up with the mounts on the Titan and attach with the O-rings. I only have 1 similar mount so I took a pic. of it mounted on each side. You'll have to use your imagination to visualize how it would work. Vancbiker has a point about the cables getting in the way. That's why I mounted the lights in front of the bar because I was getting cable interference with the bike I used.
Mole





















This is probably a better option for a mount (6" long) rather than 2 short ones.


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## Legendofzelda (Mar 28, 2016)

oh that picture helped! I get it now. it basically creates a smaller bar out front. Great idea mole!


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## Legendofzelda (Mar 28, 2016)

Here's a pic of me walking my dog with the Titan light. There is a cop sitting in the parking lot off to the right with his headlights on.









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## victorhooi (Mar 21, 2012)

I'm looking at buying one of the Gemini Titan lights for my road bike as well =).

Has anybody heard any update on when the neutral-white emitters will be available?

Also, I currently have a computer mount on my bike:









I was thinking it'd be a bit cramped to try to mount the lights directly on the handlebar.

I've emailed Pacifier, in case he has any ideas - was thinking he might have an adapter that offset the lights in front? Similar to what MRMOLE did above? Any thoughts?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The Titan really isn't a road bike light, extremely blinding and can easily cause an accident risking you or others getting severely injured. 

That said, what mole linked above (available at Action LED) is the only solution. The modular unit they have that's designed to hold a computer and lights is the perfect solution. But the standard extension would work well as they have ones that only mount on one side.

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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> The Titan really isn't a road bike light, extremely blinding and can easily cause an accident risking you or others getting severely injured.
> 
> That said, what mole linked above (available at Action LED) is the only solution. The modular unit they have that's designed to hold a computer and lights is the perfect solution. But the standard extension would work well as they have ones that only mount on one side.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


I tried the Titan with the one side MT-201 and the tube is not quite long enough. It would be plenty strong if you could come up with a longer tube. (perhap 3/4" PVC would work)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

victorhooi said:


> I'm looking at buying one of the Gemini Titan lights for my road bike as well =).
> 
> Has anybody heard any update on when the neutral-white emitters will be available?
> 
> ...


Drop-bar road bikes pose additional challenges for mounting lights because the cable routing interferes with any sort of solid bar mount. Smart that you contacted Vancbiker on this. He has a Stem face-plate replacement GoPro mount that would probably be the best bet for the available space you have. You'll have to have him design a custom mount that replaces the two stock mounts with a very wide single alloy mount with the Gopro interface centered between the connecting points on the light-head. Most Gemini lights tend to run hot so the additional heat-sink area will also be a benefit even though you probably won't find too many situations where you can use max power on the road. If you get this done I'd love to see you post pictures!
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> .....Smart that you contacted Vancbiker on this. He has a Stem face-plate replacement GoPro mount that would probably be the best bet for the available space you have. You'll have to have him design a custom mount that replaces the two stock mounts with a very wide single alloy mount with the Gopro interface centered between the connecting points on the light-head. Most Gemini lights tend to run hot so the additional heat-sink area will also be a benefit even though you probably won't find too many situations where you can use max power on the road. If you get this done I'd love to see you post pictures!
> Mole


I only have stem faceplate designs for a Cannondale 2 bolt 25.4, a couple Titec 2 bolt 25.4 and Thomson 4 bolt 31.8 stems. To do a stem faceplate for Victor's Look carbon stem would be a total custom build and very expensive (though way cool on that very expensive Look bike). It also requires that I have the original stem faceplate for a while to measure up while 3-D modelling the new faceplate.

A couple finned Duo GoPro adapters and a couple K-edge type extended GoPro mounts would probably do the trick here. Possibly one of K-edges combo mounts to hold his Garmin on one side and the regular extended mount on the other. Would have to contact K-edge to see if the bar to GoPro hole dimensions were the same between the combo and regular mounts.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> I only have stem faceplate designs for a Cannondale 2 bolt 25.4, a couple Titec 2 bolt 25.4 and Thomson 4 bolt 31.8 stems. To do a stem faceplate for Victor's Look carbon stem would be a total custom build and very expensive (though way cool on that very expensive Look bike). It also requires that I have the original stem faceplate for a while to measure up while 3-D modelling the new faceplate.
> 
> A couple finned Duo GoPro adapters and a couple K-edge type extended GoPro mounts would probably do the trick here. Possibly one of K-edges combo mounts to hold his Garmin on one side and the regular extended mount on the other. Would have to contact K-edge to see if the bar to GoPro hole dimensions were the same between the combo and regular mounts.











I did a mock setup like this on my road bike to confirm that one of your standard mounts would fit and not mess with the cable routing too much. Too bad about the limited stem cap mount availability, that would have worked well. Same idea here, long mount connecting two mounting points but with the GoPro interface off-set to match the location difference from the center of the bar mount to the center of the stem. I'm just throwing ideas out there. Hard to know how it will fit without C to C measurement of the mounting holes on the light-head and stem width.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> ...The Titan really isn't a road bike light...


I'm inclined to agree. No one needs that much light coming off the bars on the road. Nope, I think you'd be better served with a single Gemini Duo-R with spot optics or a Gloworm X2 with spot optics. Typical two emitter lamps with spot optics throw very well on the road and supply a wide beam pattern as well. It's what I use. If I need more I use a single emitter thrower on the helmet for the faster downhills with curves. Otherwise I'm good with just the two emitter bar lamp.

If you're absolutely dead set on running over 2000 lumen off the bars then I'd recommend either the Gloworm XS or running two Gemini Duo-R's on the bars with both lamps synced with only one wireless remote. Two Duo-Rs on high would provide about 2800-3000 lumen. Still, I don't know why you would feel you need that much light for road use.


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## KiwiJohn (Feb 6, 2007)

I bought the MT-204 mount pictured above for my Titan.
Unfortunately, even with the small O rings, it wobbles too much off road. A couple of zipties would help, but would be a pain to take on & off. You also have to move the mounts out so the Titan sits in side them. 
& yeah, the Titan is totally over kill for the road. The mount would be good on the road bike if you want to mount more stuff & is sturdier than the single sided version.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

KiwiJohn said:


> I bought the MT-204 mount pictured above for my Titan.
> Unfortunately, even with the small O rings, it wobbles too much off road. A couple of zipties would help, but would be a pain to take on & off. You also have to move the mounts out so the Titan sits in side them.
> & yeah, the Titan is totally over kill for the road. The mount would be good on the road bike if you want to mount more stuff & is sturdier than the single sided version.


I was thinking you could still go with the Vancbiker mounts but I checked my single sided mount like yours with my 25.4 Vancbiker mount and found the diameter of the action mount is considerably smaller than 25.4 which may be a possible source of your instability issue. Just an idea but building up the mounting tube diameter (the thicker the better) with some sort of tape might help and wouldn't cost much to try.
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Often those extender mounts like the MT204 are 22.2mm (7/8") diameter. Many Tri-bars also use that size. I have 22.2mm GoPro mounts available as detailed in this thread...

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/new-gopro-mounts-1002310.html


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Does Gemini lights produce cool white light?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Picard said:


> Does Gemini lights produce cool white light?


I believe most of the lamps that Gemini makes are sold with NW emitters. Still, the ones I have seen seem to be slightly cooler in tint than what most of us here on MTBR appear to prefer. The last I heard Gemini was supposed to be switching over to a warmer bin but I don't know if that has happened yet. If you need to know you might ask the U.S. vendor ( ActionLED ).

I own both the Duo and the Olympia, both were given to me from Gemini for review purposes ( earlier in the year ). The beam tints on both appear to be just a tad cooler than the typical NW emitters that I prefer. I wouldn't classify them as cool white though, just plain white.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Picard said:


> Does Gemini lights produce cool white light?


Initial production runs of the 2016 Gemini lights were done with "cool white" emitters. As I understand it at some point the decision to switch to neutral white was made mid year so it's very possible you can still get some of the cool white versions if that's what your looking for. You need to check with Jim @ "Action-LED-Lights" to see what stock he has available. Also recommend you look at the Gloworm lights if you go to Actions website as they also come with cool white emitters (NW optional).
Mole


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Picard said:


> Does Gemini lights produce cool white light?


All of Gemini's production is now in Neutral White. We do still have a few Xera's and Olympia's in Cool White. If you want to order either let me know.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

KiwiJohn said:


> I bought the MT-204 mount pictured above for my Titan.
> Unfortunately, even with the small O rings, it wobbles too much off road.


Yeah, I wrapped my mount with thick Velcro, solved the rotating problem offroad. Was doing some testing, don't need it with the XS.









Back when I had gears this mount was essential...


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Action LED Lights said:


> All of Gemini's production is now in Neutral White. We do still have a few Xera's and Olympia's in Cool White. If you want to order either let me know.


One of out nightride regulars showed up with a new Gemini, that wireless remote is the Cat's Ass!

It is very white, esp compared to my NW Gloworms.


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## spankone (Aug 31, 2011)

Boom

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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

Anyone that has been running a titan for awhile, what are your thoughts after using it for several months 


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## drummer_man (Oct 3, 2015)

^^^^ I am curious to know as well.. I am about to order a Titan for my handlebars, and an Olympia for my helmet. 

Do you guys think this would be a good pairing? Always open to suggestions! 
Thanks!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Dy1lan123 said:


> ^^^Agree..would be nice. mailmarke.com ? Email marketing


Dude knock off the click bait spam crap please.

drummer

Theres a few good options out there. Just depends on what exactly your looking for in a light. Olympia isn't bad (couple things that can be an issue for some but nothing serious). Titan hasn't been a popular light because it's just big and cumbersome to deal with compared to most other lights and it's output is a total waste for 99% of people because it's more than anyone but those riding pro downhill courses would eve actually need or use. Most can run a duo and Olympia or equivalent set up and have more than they need already.

Me, I kind of want a Titan for my collection just because it's a monster.

Only thing to consider is if you ride during hot summer nights Gemini has a very harsh thermal step down that you have to be cautious of.

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## spankone (Aug 31, 2011)

We tested it tonight and everyone looked loved. All the light you'll ever need as long as you can squeeze it on your bars. 


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

spankone said:


> We tested it tonight and everyone looked loved. All the light you'll ever need as long as you can squeeze it on your bars.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you going to do a review on the Titan? I'd love to know the amp. draw from the battery in high mode. 
Mole


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## spankone (Aug 31, 2011)

Christ I don't go into that much detail mainly because 99.9% of people simply don't care. They just want to know what it's like to use and is it any good. 


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

spankone said:


> Christ I don't go into that much detail mainly because 99.9% of people simply don't care. They just want to know what it's like to use and is it any good.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fair enough. My interest was in regards to runtimes. Prior to 2016 manufacturers claims were pretty much spot on which unfortunately has changed with other new Gemini lights. Battery draw numbers would give me a fairly accurate way of calculating runtime but if you do a review and include measured runtimes that would be awesome since that's really what I wanted to know. Thanks!
Mole


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## drummer_man (Oct 3, 2015)

Just got my lights in yesterday, and WoW! All, I have to say. I was coming from Ebay lights, and these Gemini's blow them out of the water, plus some.. I want to say thanks to Jim for answering some questions I had, and for getting them out to me ASAP! Going to do a night ride tonight, excited to see how well they light up the trails!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

drummer_man said:


> Just got my lights in yesterday, and WoW! All, I have to say. I was coming from Ebay lights, and these Gemini's blow them out of the water, plus some.. I want to say thanks to Jim for answering some questions I had, and for getting them out to me ASAP! Going to do a night ride tonight, excited to see how well they light up the trails!


Congrats! I'm sure it's nice to now have lights designed for reliability and performance rather than lowest cost possible. Did you go with the Titan/Olympia combo? Love to see pictures of your new setup!
Mole


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Are you going to do a review on the Titan? I'd love to know the amp. draw from the battery in high mode.
> Mole


Mole,

I'll do that test for you on the Titan and other Gemini lights after the holidays. The shop will be shut down until then. (But we'll still be shipping orders)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Action LED Lights said:


> Mole,
> 
> I'll do that test for you on the Titan and other Gemini lights after the holidays. The shop will be shut down until then. (But we'll still be shipping orders)


Thanks Jim! Hope you have a happy Holiday. I'll be on my bike if it doesn't rain.
Mole


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

Do the titans suffer from the same thermal step down issues as the duo?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm guessing since both the Olympia and Duo both do it there's 100% chance that the Titan does it too. Its how Gemini has their lights programmed.

That's one nice thing about Glowworm and Ituo. There is no harsh step down. Its "stepless" as in you don't notice it unless you go really slow or sit stopped on high. Then they'll slowly decrease output all the way down till it cools off. Only difference between Glowworm and Ituo on thay is Ituo lights respond to changes in air flow (head cooling off) a bit faster. 

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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

The new Olympia has more surface area so it's not as much of an issue, but it's still one big step down if it does get hot. They are planning to change that sometime in the future. Maybe with the next production run of boards.


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## drummer_man (Oct 3, 2015)

MRMOLE said:


> Congrats! I'm sure it's nice to now have lights designed for reliability and performance rather than lowest cost possible. Did you go with the Titan/Olympia combo? Love to see pictures of your new setup!
> Mole


Thanks! I did go with the Titan/Olympia combo. With the Titan and Olympia both on 100% the Olympia washes out due to being overpowered by the Titan.. I am running the Titan at 70%, and Olympia at 100%. These are very impressive lights. I have attached a pic of the Titan at 100%.. The Olympia was off. Again, these annihilate my old ebay lights.


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## KiwiJohn (Feb 6, 2007)

patski said:


> Yeah, I wrapped my mount with thick Velcro, solved the rotating problem offroad. Was doing some testing, don't need it with the XS.


I might try that next winter, but then the Titan sits so nicely between the rise of the bars, I never disturbed it on more than a few OTB's.

The other mod I did was change the outside lenses to flood optics.


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

I hope they fix the step down issues this year, that would make this light hard to beat 


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

I'm pretty sure they will. It takes a while to sell through the existing production run. When i spoke to Chris several months ago about this i was told next year and possibly the next production run at the earliest. He had asked me my opinion as to what rout of step down to change to from the existing 20% output. 30%/40%/50%? I suggested like the other big players are doing (gradual) step down. His concern was that how was the user going to keep track on what output setting their using. To be continued.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

indebt said:


> I'm pretty sure they will. It takes a while to sell through the existing production run. When i spoke to Chris several months ago about this i was told next year and possibly the next production run at the earliest. He had asked me my opinion as to what rout of step down to change to from the existing 20% output. 30%/40%/50%? I suggested like the other big players are doing (gradual) step down. His concern was that how was the user going to keep track on what output setting their using. To be continued.


Setting the step-down to 50% would be a huge improvement but to keep current they need to adopt the linear system used by Gloworm/Ituo. If I remember correctly their remote has 2 buttons + the button of the light-head so with three control switches and a little imagination they should be able to come up with something that might even be an improvement over what's now available. As the mode confusion issue Chris mentioned would effect the current Gloworm/Ituo lights and I've never heard anyone complain or even mention it it's probably not that big of a problem anyway.
Mole


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

MRMOLE said:


> Setting the step-down to 50% would be huge improvement but to keep current they need to adopt the linear system used by Gloworm/Ituo. If I remember correctly their remote has 2 buttons + the button of the light-head so with three control switches and a little imagination they should be able to come up with something that might even be an improvement over what's now available. As the mode confusion issue Chris mentioned would effect the current Gloworm/Ituo lights and I've never heard anyone complain or even mention it it's probably not that big of a problem anyway.
> Mole


 I agree,, not a big deal as i havent heard complaints either. Most of us are quite satisfied with a two or three mode output and its pretty easy to keep track. Even easier for me as my lamp heads have fifteen different led indicators showing in real time my output and what level of step down has been activated.

Pretty much the only weakness Gemini has so will be nice for consumers once corrected.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE
Are you going to do a review on the Titan? I'd love to know the amp. draw from the battery in high mode. 
Mole


Finally able to get that test done. 
I tested the Titan with a fully charged 6 cell battery. 8.4V starting out. The voltage dropped to 7.3V when the light was on high. (my wires might have been a little small)
Current was 3.8A.
Hope that answers your questions.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

indebt said:


> I'm pretty sure they will. It takes a while to sell through the existing production run. When i spoke to Chris several months ago about this i was told next year and possibly the next production run at the earliest. He had asked me my opinion as to what rout of step down to change to from the existing 20% output. 30%/40%/50%? I suggested like the other big players are doing (gradual) step down. His concern was that how was the user going to keep track on what output setting their using. To be continued.


I know I'm kind'a late to this party but you have to consider what may happen if they change the step-down power. Basically I figure if you up the output of the step-down then the step-down process will likely engage sooner. That said if the lamp is outputting more light the lamp will likely hold the step-down output for a longer period. These are things to consider before you start asking for change. When the lamp ( Olympia ) is running at 20% the lamp cools much faster and allows you to go back to full output within a couple minutes ( as long as you are moving ). Keep in mind the lamp has programmable modes so if you only using the output that you need for the moment the step down will rarely kick in.

The idea of linear step-down is interesting but if you go that route the lamp is going to start dropping output within minutes if you aren't moving fast enough. At some point if you are using the high mode and moving slow you may have some confusion on "what mode you are in" if you are changing modes and the lamp is into step-down mode. I'm not sure I like that idea. Personally I'd rather keep the sudden drop as it is but maybe up the step-down output to maybe 30%. _ I just like knowing when I'm using the high mode that I know I'm getting the full output of the lamp_. When the output noticeably drops I then know I'm in step-down mode and I need to cool the lamp. Once step down happens I can then choose a brighter mode that will keep the lamp from stepping down. I'd rather do this myself then than have the lamp drop linearly and me have no idea if I'm getting full output ( if that is what I want ).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat, actually changing how far the step down goes has no effect on anything. If a light is being ran at 20% power it's just not going to step down. At 100% it'll step down to the preset then SHOULD return to full output (most lights using a hard step down don't though) as soon as the light temperature drops.

Ya it would take longer to cool at 50% but in a hard step down that matters little unless the program sets to return.

In a linear system (at least with Ituo, I haven't fully tested gloworm) there is no difference. Thermal protection on all lights engages at a preset temperature. It's thermal protection design has no effect on how that operates. It a hard program value. Temp reaches "X" degrees, thermal protection engages. So Chinese lights, Gemini, Ituo doesn't matter. All have a preset. How long it takes to reach that preset is based on output of the light vs head design.

The difference in a proper linear system is the stepdown is gradual, so you don't suddenly loose half or more of your output without warning. Then as you start picking up speed the light head cools and the driver immediately starts increasing output back to normal.

I know you have a selection of lights leave each on high and ride slowly till you see thermal protection engage. Gemini and Chinese lights will just drop hard. Ituo and gloworm you won't even notice for several more minutes or will cool enough to start returning to normal.

I get your thought process totally. Just that thermal protection design has 0 effect on when it engages and light steps down. Difference is if it returns to normal on its own after it cools enough and how noticeable it actually is. While hard step down you loose 50-80% instantly no warning, linear means it simple start to "throttle back" a little at a time till you increase speed or till the head cools off. Mole so far is the only person that's made linear system drop low enough to notice it while out riding.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

continued from above; ^^^

The thing I don't like about the "linear step-down" idea is that if you are running high mode and not riding real fast ( for a higher powered light like the Olympia ), at some point you will notice the ever diminishing output. Everyone's eyes are different but my eyes tend to pick up those minute differences. I'm sure there is a difference in where the cut-off temperature is set for each type of thermal regulation. I would think with linear thermal regulation the tapering of output would start sooner.

_ I figure one way to improve the sudden step-down type of regulation would be to make it "less sudden" by adding a short series of strobe pulses; giving the rider at least 30 seconds to prepare ( either to slow the bike or to drop to a lower output mode ). _

Last year I tested the Olympia ( on high ) on a series of rolling/slower climbs. As I began to tire on the first climb I knew the Olympia was going to get really hot. Normally, I would of dropped to a lower mode seeing I was only going likely less than 5mph. It was a warm summer night and I doubt that I had the lamp on high for more than ten minutes. After reaching the crest of the climb I began my descent but had to stop at a trail intersection because I forgot which way to go. While stopped for a about a minute or two I left the light on high while checking the GPS map on my phone. During that time the lamp self dropped to low. Now I figure if I hadn't of stopped the lamp likely would of continued to stay on high since I was on the downhill section. Actually, after I started to ride again I was able to return to high mode in less than a minute. Not long after that I came to another short climb and my speed once again slowed to a crawl. No power down from the lamp but when I started to descend again I had to stop for a rather large downed tree that had fallen across the trail. This time I just turned the light on low as I had to walk around the tree. Once on the bike again I flipped the Olympia back to high and rode all the way back to my car with the lamp on high.

Tig, maybe you're right, maybe linear is the better way to go. I'd just rather self modulate the lamp myself and KNOW I have the highest/brightest output mode possible and readily available whenever I need it. At least with the newer Gemini models ( with wireless remote ) this is extremely easy to do.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> I know I'm kind'a late to this party but you have to consider what may happen if they change the step-down power. Basically I figure if you up the output of the step-down then the step-down process will likely engage sooner. That said if the lamp is outputting more light the lamp will likely hold the step-down output for a longer period. These are things to consider before you start asking for change. When the lamp ( Olympia ) is running at 20% the lamp cools much faster and allows you to go back to full output within a couple minutes ( as long as you are moving ). Keep in mind the lamp has programmable modes so if you only using the output that you need for the moment the step down will rarely kick in.
> 
> The idea of linear step-down is interesting but if you go that route the lamp is going to start dropping output within minutes if you aren't moving fast enough. At some point if you are using the high mode and moving slow you may have some confusion on "what mode you are in" if you are changing modes and the lamp is into step-down mode. I'm not sure I like that idea. Personally I'd rather keep the sudden drop as it is but maybe up the step-down output to maybe 30%. _ I just like knowing when I'm using the high mode that I know I'm getting the full output of the lamp_. When the output noticeably drops I then know I'm in step-down mode and I need to cool the lamp. Once step down happens I can then choose a brighter mode that will keep the lamp from stepping down. I'd rather do this myself then than have the lamp drop linearly and me have no idea if I'm getting full output ( if that is what I want ).


 I do understand what your saying Cat, but IMO something needs to be done. Sudden drop to 20% is some circumstances can be dangerous especially in the areas where night rides are in 90+ degree temps. Personally i'm like you 95% of the time and do pay attention to what output i'm using so step down doesn't happen often.

My Betty's are high output and i dont even see with my eyes when they step down as they only step down to the threshold to keep internal temp i think below 60/65C. The only way i know they have stepped down is by the led readout. For me i do prefer the linear step down, but even a change to 40% step down would be a big improvement.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat

I guess I'm a bit confused, cause with linear systems you can regulate modes and everything just the same, doesnt matter which thermal protection design.

But with linear output, nope, it doesnt start sooner or later. That's a determined set point by the manufacturer as to how hot they want their lights running. Itou does engage about 10F sooner than most but that's not due to using a linear management program. They were being a bit overly cautious in making sure emitters and driver never get too hot.

Here is what the program would say for each if written in normal wording. Temp number is example as it's actually a resistance reading of the thermistor at said temp.

Standard thermal protection 
"If temperature = 60C then light output switch to = 50%"

Gemini is the same except the final number is 20%

For linear output:

"If temperature = 50C then run program:
If temp >= 50C then output = (mode - 5%). Repeat increasing output mode decrease by 5% until temperature is <= 40C. When temperature is <=40c, return output to previous mode.

Hope you that makes sense but to write out the entire sequence would take forever (and no way I'd know how to write the code itself). It basically continues to watch the temperature and only reduces power by a small mount until the head has cooled to a second preset number. Using my sphere I've let Ituo XPS drop down to 70% then just turn the fan on, literally instantly the output was headed right back up. Turn the fan off the increase would stop and start going back down which I let it go till it stopped. Then I hit the fan again. Took a few seconds from full reduction (around 40%) back to 100.

I had full mode control the entire time. I can manually cycle modes and it bypasses the thermal management very briefly when I go to high. I get high back but immediately starts cutting back again if there is no airflow. Give it airflow and back to normal almost instantly




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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Was just on the Action-Led-Lights website and not sure if they've implemented any changes yet but it looks like for 2017 we get a price increase. Noticed about a $30 jump for the Duo/Olympia/Titan.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Welcome to all the new regulations on lithium batteries. My guess is that it's all the extra required now to get them exported from the factory and into whatever country that's the cause of the price increase. It's a flipping disaster now let me tell you.

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## jawry (Jan 22, 2004)

G'day all,

Has anyone had issues with their duo/titan remote working another persons duo/titan?

Had my first ride with my new Titans last night (wow!!!!) and my remote operated my mates Gemini duo's. Was fun to finish ahead of him then 'accidently' switch mine off to conserve battery . Anyone know of a fix? Have emailed Gemini direct - but as its Sunday in the states - no answer as yet. I was hoping for a ride with the same bloke again tonight.

cheers,

iain


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

jawry said:


> G'day all,
> 
> Has anyone had issues with their duo/titan remote working another persons duo/titan?
> 
> ...


jawry,

The light pairs with whatever remote is sees first after it's plugged in. To un-pair your mates light from your remote unplug it, wait 10 or 15 seconds and then plug it back in and turn it on with his remote. Having a little distance between your bike and his when pairing will avoid the problem.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Only fix is not to be so close to him I believe, especially when powering the lights up. Need to stay out of remote range.

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## mtbiker278 (Jun 22, 2011)

Hi All,

I just wanted to chime in after getting a chance to ride with this light last night. For reference I was previously using a Bright-eyes 1200(hypothetical) lumen light and a Cygolite Expilion 850 on my helmet.

Out of the box the Gemini Titan 4000 looks like it would have a very bright spot in the middle when you shine it on a wall, with a fair bit of scatter surrounding the spot. However, in practice you get a nice wide flood of light. I tried to angle the bulk of the spot almost level with the trail. Any more downward and you lost the throw, and ended up with a lot of reflective glare right in front. With the bit of scatter that you do get, you still have blind spots when turning, especially on twisty switchbacks. You could potentially get away with just this light, but you would really be better off pairing with a helmet mounted light.

In terms, of useable light I really like the color this light outputs. It's definitely warmer than my Cygolite, and my buddy's Seca 2200. I found that it helped to give more definition to the trail when trying to determine the difference between brown leaves and brown dirt trail. With the Bright-eyes 1200, the colors were getting washed out, and it was more difficult to see detail. I'm told that all Gemini lights now use the neutral white LEDs. The standard brightness settings were pretty good out of the box. I tested both the middle and the high setting riding. The middle was more than enough light for the go fast parts. The high gave you some more flood, and throw, but didn't appear to be a huge difference. Depending on your ride time I say you would be fine with either, and it's nice to know the light can "go to 11" when needed. I never had any issues with stepping down on full blast, but it was ~40F degrees out on my ride.

The light was really easy to mount and get set-up. The rubber bands provided are very similar to the mounts for Magic Eyes lights. I did not experience any shifting in the light or the remote. I did find that battery bag slide around a bit on my head tube. I might a piece of inner tube to help keep it from sliding around. The remote worked pretty well, but seemed to be a tad slow to respond on a couple of presses. Granted this was the 1st time using the light so I might just have to get used to how hard and long to press. My only other gripe is that this light seems to overpower my Cygolite so seeing around turns was a little more difficult when trying to adjust to the different light levels. pairing with something like the Duo, or the Gloworm X2 would probably be better.

So quick recap:
Pros: Lumen output, warmer light color, easy mounting, long burn time
Cons: sliding battery bag, somewhat fiddly remote (minor), not 100% waterproof (no dunking)

Overall I would definitely recommend this light over say the SECA 2200/2500, especially since it's at a lower price point by almost $200, and has a longer burn time. If 100% waterproof is important to you than the Seca is the better bet, but I never really plan on submerging any of my lights.

I hope this helps people and let me know if you have any questions.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mtbiker278 said:


> Hi All,
> Out of the box the Gemini Titan 4000 looks like it would have a very bright spot in the middle when you shine it on a wall, with a fair bit of scatter surrounding the spot. However, in practice you get a nice wide flood of light. I tried to angle the bulk of the spot almost level with the trail. Any more downward and you lost the throw, and ended up with a lot of reflective glare right in front. With the bit of scatter that you do get, you still have blind spots when turning, especially on twisty switchbacks. You could potentially get away with just this light, but you would really be better off pairing with a helmet mounted light.


Possible you may be able to improve your lights performance for your needs with different optics. I've noticed similar characteristics on my 2500 lumen inline triples to what you described and assume they would only be amplified with your more powerful Titan. For bar use I've found the anything other than a spot optic would give me too much foreground light causing similar glare issues to yours. To widen the beam I use Gloworm XS wide angle optics which are an elliptical style optic that only widens the beam without expanding it vertically so helps to reduce foreground light compared to a symmetrical wide angle optic. Hypothetically I would think (since stock Titan optics are a middle of the road wide spot) that running a Gloworm wide angle on the Titan's outside optics and spots in the middle should widen your beam enabling you to see around corners better plus reduce foreground glare which should improve your distance vision. I don't own a Titan so I'm just guessing based on my experience switching optics with other lights but hopefully someone else with a Titan might chime in on this. Other option is to contact Jim @ Action-LED-Lights and see if any of his Titan customers have given him any feedback on their experiences with optic changes. I'd definitely ride your Titan a bit more to get used to it. If in the end you decide you want a wider beam or to reduce the foreground light a bit my comments may be helpful.

https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/gloworm-parts-and-accessories/products/wide-angle-optic-for-gloworm-x2-xs

https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/gloworm-parts-and-accessories/products/gloworm-xs-x2-spot-optic

https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/lenses-optics-reflectors/products/super-spot-optic-for-the-2016-gemini-duo-and-xera?variant=10399181125



> would definitely recommend this light over say the SECA 2200/2500, especially since it's at a lower price point by almost $200, and has a longer burn time. If 100% waterproof is important to you than the Seca is the better bet, but I never really plan on submerging any of my lights.
> 
> I hope this helps people and let me know if you have any questions.


Since there's not a lot of comments on this light any information you shared (especially the fact that you preferred it to your friends Seca 2200/2500) is going to be helpful to a potential Titan owner. Additional comments after you get a few more rides in would be appreciated.
Mole


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## mtbiker278 (Jun 22, 2011)

I actually emailed Jim @ Action LEDs a couple times asking about the optics. He agreed the Gloworm wide optics would probably be preferred, and should fit the Titan. For the time being I'm going to get a couple more ride in with the stock optics. Regardless, I would consider this light one of the better, if not the best, output/$ lights you can currently get. I'll try to get some beam shots/video if possible, but honestly I don't think cameras do very well with handling bright lights against dark backgrounds, and generally give you a false impression of what you would actually see.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mtbiker278 said:


> I actually emailed Jim @ Action LEDs a couple times asking about the optics. He agreed the Gloworm wide optics would probably be preferred, and should fit the Titan. For the time being I'm going to get a couple more ride in with the stock optics. Regardless, I would consider this light one of the better, if not the best, output/$ lights you can currently get. I'll try to get some beam shots/video if possible, but honestly I don't think cameras do very well with handling bright lights against dark backgrounds, and generally give you a false impression of what you would actually see.


Agree that beam-shots are a bit limited for accurately portraying what it's like to ride with a light, but they're fun to look at. Curious what you find as a good helmet light to combo with the Titan down the road. 
Mole


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## dustedone (Oct 4, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> Curious what you find as a good helmet light to combo with the Titan down the road.


A Gemini works very well and is still overpowered by the Titan's beam on high. Nice for seeing around corners though.


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## RRsRRs (Nov 24, 2017)

mtbiker278 said:


> I actually emailed Jim @ Action LEDs a couple times asking about the optics. He agreed the Gloworm wide optics would probably be preferred, and should fit the Titan. For the time being I'm going to get a couple more ride in with the stock optics. Regardless, I would consider this light one of the better, if not the best, output/$ lights you can currently get. I'll try to get some beam shots/video if possible, but honestly I don't think cameras do very well with handling bright lights against dark backgrounds, and generally give you a false impression of what you would actually see.


Subscribing.

I just bought a Titan tonight and am curious to see what you think _if _you ever switch to the Gloworm wide optics.

FYI if anyone is wanting to buy a Titan, modernbike.com is running a special for a 8-cell Titan that ends tonight. $299 shipped plus I found a 7% coupon code & free s/h which brought it down to $278.99 shipped.


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## mtbiker278 (Jun 22, 2011)

I got a couple more rides with the Titan, and happened to pick up a Duo from Modern Bike on the same sale. The Duo was a nice upgrade from my Cygolite Expilion 850. The color temp matches, and with both lights on medium give plenty of light for fairly fast riding. If needed you can always kick up to high when you're really pushing the downhills.

As far as the optics go, at this point I don't really see much of a benefit to changing them with the Duo as my helmet light. I get plenty of coverage from both light, it's something of a moot point now. Maybe it would help create more of a pool of light to the sides, but I think you would seriously be detracting from the throw of the light. Might be something to play with in the future, but for this winter I don't see a reason to mess with a good thing.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Hey folks, it's been a while. I just picked up four Duo's for a buddy of mine and see in my brief time with them that Gemini has listened to their customers regarding beam color beam shape and a larger lamp head. I compared it to my back up Duo (1100 lumen version) and the difference is ridicules. Of coarse the color is much warmer, looks to be in the 4900K range comparing to my Lupines. The hot spot is much larger. I can only assume the larger lamp head will help with the premature thermal kicking in from earlier models. 

I havent investigated if there has been an improvement in the step down % as the earlier models were IMO to aggressive stepping down to just 20% output. I played with all four sets and the remote functions seem quick in their responds however this was not on a real worl ride but just in my home so cant comment on their function in the cold out on the trails. To much snow right now.

Anyway just wanted to say hello and share what seems to be many good improvements i've noticed and IMO were needed. Cheers!!


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