# More AM helmet stuff - Pryme AL vs. Deviant



## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

Lot's of good threads on the topic. Seem like the two best candidates are the Specialized Deviant and the Pryme AL.
Thanks to TNC for all the good picks he posted on his modded Pryme AL. 
For the price it really looks like the way to go.
I haven't seem much of the Deviant and can't find a pics of the inside and how the chin straps are made. I've read some posts on how the helmet will move even a few inches if you pull on the chin guard :skep: , which really sound like a problem to me.

Does anyone have more detailed pics of a Deviant? 
Any more input/comments on the retention system?

Deviant sells for about $50-60 more than the Pryme (which seems hard to find online). Is it really worth the extra cash?

Thanks for your opinions
ZT


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## mkiv808 (Jun 16, 2006)

I was going to get the 661 Pro Bravo for my full face helmet. Cheapest was at Beyond Bikes for $99 (most places was $120-$150). 

Is the Pryme a better helmet? It's definitely cheaper..


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Full coverage trail helmet.*



mkiv808 said:


> I was going to get the 661 Pro Bravo for my full face helmet. Cheapest was at Beyond Bikes for $99 (most places was $120-$150).
> 
> Is the Pryme a better helmet? It's definitely cheaper..


He's looking at the prospect of making a full coverage trail helmet, and the two most highly vented ones are the Pryme AL and the Spec Deviant. Bravo's a good helmet, but not vented enough for this application.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

The bottom line is fit. Either one is fine if it fits you.

The Pryme does not fit my head at all - not even close. The Deviant fits me very well.


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

You're absolutely right on that (it almost goes without saying  ) 
Unfortunately I haven't been able to find either one at the LBS, so I'll have to pick one (and the return it if it doesn't fit) - it's just matter of choosing which one to try first...

The Deviant looks really nice, I was trying to understand if there is any real issue with the straps/retention system: btw does the strap use a buckle or is it like bike helmets (the metal Ds)? would be great if you could post a pic.
Thx - ZT


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Zen_Turtle said:


> You're absolutely right on that (it almost goes without saying  )
> Unfortunately I haven't been able to find either one at the LBS, so I'll have to pick one (and the return it if it doesn't fit) - it's just matter of choosing which one to try first...
> 
> The Deviant looks really nice, I was trying to understand if there is any real issue with the straps/retention system: btw does the strap use a buckle or is it like bike helmets (the metal Ds)? would be great if you could post a pic.
> Thx - ZT


Which helmets fit you? In general, Specialized and Bell helmets fit my head. Giros (except for the Semi) do not.

I do not remember if the Deviant uses a snap buckle or D rings


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

Giro fits me well.
I'm currently pretty happy with the Xen. I think is a great helmet.

Looking into the FF after I scraped my pretty face :bluefrown: in an OTB crash


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Zen_Turtle said:


> Giro fits me well.
> I'm currently pretty happy with the Xen. I think is a great helmet.
> 
> Looking into the FF after I scraped my pretty face :bluefrown: in an OTB crash


The Deviant may not fit you. It is more of an oval head helmet where Giro tends to fit round heads. May want to look at the Giro Remedy.


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## mp29k (Jun 17, 2005)

*cheap link*

http://www.albes.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=227

Pryme AL for $65


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## mkiv808 (Jun 16, 2006)

I've been following this thread with interest as I'm looking for the same thing. 

Which is more ventilated in general? The Pryme or Specialized?


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Deviant face pads.*



stripes said:


> I tried on the deviant, and the face pads felt pretty scratchy
> 
> I've got a medium Bell, and I'm going to end up ordering a Pryme AL to see how it fits.


If by face pads you're referring to the jaw, chin, or ear hole padding, this modification involves removing those. What we're trying for here is to have all the same quality cranial protection of a good open face helmet with more protection for the face, mouth, etc. The neck, jaw, chin, and ear hole padding is one of the main contributors to heat retention and stopping air flow. This setup is not intended to replace the total full coverage helmet for extreme FR and DH. It's just something better for aggressive trail riding/AM use.


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

mp29k said:


> http://www.albes.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=227
> 
> Pryme AL for $65


Also danscomp.com has it for the same price, but only has Black, Blue and Red, while I was looking for the white one: apparently TNC bought all the white ones... 

There are just a few more online stores:
Seattle Bike Supply - but seems to sell to dealers only  
Several stores thru Amazon.com, $82-84 - but their return policies suck (all 15-20% restocking fees) and with an helmet chances are it won't fit your head, so.... :nono: 
Mec.ca: $89 - but they ship to Canada only :madman: 
Gregg's Cycles: $99 - Pricey and only black color :skep:
Other than that I haven't found any other online store that has it.

BTW I'm sure you all know how to use Google  , just wanted to save some time to those looking for the same thing...


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## mkiv808 (Jun 16, 2006)

The black looks nice, but wouldn't it be deadly in the sun?

I'm thinking of getting a silver one.


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## mkiv808 (Jun 16, 2006)

http://206.130.114.227/mm5/merchant...e_Code=ACC&Product_Code=IT45&Category_Code=13

Not cheap, but available in lighter colors.


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## Thunderboltgreaseslapper (Jun 14, 2004)

my .02
I have a pryme and I really like it. not as cool as a full xc helmet, but still very comfortable on trail rides. as far as protection goes, it is like a bike that is halfway between an all mountain ride, and a full on freeride rig---if that analogy makes any sense.
I got a blu one from dan's for 64.99. i like it and it looks pretty sweet. some people may not like the chin protection part of the full face, as it extends pretty far out. I didn't have any issues with it though. good luck.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

mkiv808 said:


> The black looks nice, but wouldn't it be deadly in the sun?
> 
> I'm thinking of getting a silver one.


The shell color makes little difference. The foam liner is a great insulator.

But if you think black will be hotter, you will probably feel hotter in black.


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

I know this question is outside our current comparison here, but it seemed like the right place to ask it. Does any one have any experience with or opinons of the azonic t-55 helmet that I see on sale everywhere? The venting looks pretty decent IMO. . .


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

croatiansensation said:


> I know this question is outside our current comparison here, but it seemed like the right place to ask it. Does any one have any experience with or opinons of the azonic t-55 helmet that I see on sale everywhere? The venting looks pretty decent IMO. . .


It seems pretty nice and darn cheap!
Seem to have lots of vents in the chin area, but seems bulkier than the Pryme.

I was finally able to try a Deviant on. It's a fine looking helmet and I think it fits good.
Only downside so far is price $$$, so I ended up ordering the Pryme and see how it goes. :skep:

I read of the nasty accident that happened to Francois (luckyly he seems to be recovering fast and well) and I can't help thinking what the outcome would have been if he had a FF.
Nobody wants to fall, but following the same principle why would we wear seat belts?? Shait happens, I guess.

I've been trying out a lot of new stuff recently and I end up falling a ot more than before. These are literally 'growing pains', so my FF is on its way and hpefully will limit the damage.... 
ZT


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

Zen_Turtle said:


> It seems pretty nice and darn cheap!
> Seem to have lots of vents in the chin area, but seems bulkier than the Pryme.
> 
> I was finally able to try a Deviant on. It's a fine looking helmet and I think it fits good.
> ...


Keep us posted on how the Pryme works for you. I'm part of the mishapen head club as well and would love to know if I can fit into a Pryme.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Francois' accident.*



Zen_Turtle said:


> It seems pretty nice and darn cheap!
> Seem to have lots of vents in the chin area, but seems bulkier than the Pryme.
> 
> I was finally able to try a Deviant on. It's a fine looking helmet and I think it fits good.
> ...


That's what's so funny about some of the attitudes that some have posted here, slamming anyone who would want to wear some type of full face helmet for trail riding. Some seem to think that unless you're hucking off of RBR level jumps, you have no business wearing a full face. Francois's incident is not unique. I'm certainly not saying people "should" wear a full face helmet for trail riding, but if they want to it shouldn't be considered some kind of issue. Why do some other riders seem to care so much and try to make it their business in a negative way? It's a fascinating element of human nature.


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## Stalk (May 24, 2005)

TNC said:


> ... Why do some other riders seem to care so much and try to make it their business in a negative way? It's a fascinating element of human nature.


Some psychologists will say it's caused by secret desire to do the same but being affraid of negative reaction from the peoples like they are.

Well, I'm waiting for delivery of Casco Viper MX from Germany. Should be usefull for the Mammoth Mountain trip, but could be comfy for the local riding as well, will see.


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

Stalk said:


> Some psychologists will say it's caused by secret desire to do the same but being affraid of negative reaction from the peoples like they are.


I agree - in the end is human nature and we see it in other fields, non bike related.
In addition I think that the FF somewhat identifies you as "a freerider" and I've seen "XC people" having issue with that... childish at best.



Stalk said:


> Well, I'm waiting for delivery of Casco Viper MX from Germany. Should be usefull for the Mammoth Mountain trip, but could be comfy for the local riding as well, will see.


Let us know how the Casco works for you.
I was in Mammoth last w.e. (I wish I had FF on Bullet and Shotgun). I paid a little attention to helmets and I'd say more than 50% were FF (an all trails) , compared to maybe 20-30% last year. Have fun there, hopefully there will be more trails open.


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

croatiansensation said:


> Keep us posted on how the Pryme works for you. I'm part of the mishapen head club as well and would love to know if I can fit into a Pryme.


Got the Pryme AL today. Fits perfectly (much better than the Deviant I tried - no pressure on the top of my head) and feels snug. Haven't started playing with the paddign yet.

Went for a ride today and it's not too bad even with the whole padding (was 76"F).
I think is a good buy for the price and quality looks good.
ZT


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Hey stripes...with or without padding mod?...just curious.


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

stripes said:


> Without the padding mod. I'm sure it's fine with it


Ok, now I'm starting to hear the comments from other riders TNC mentioned about.
This one is hilarious :lol: :lol: I met a guy on the trail with *no helmet * and he asked me what _the hell_ was I trying to do .... I told him that 30% of my skull was missing and I had to wear that :lol: :lol:

I think something similar must have appened 10-15yrs ago about wearing regular helmets on any bike: I feel it's an educational battle and we need to do our part.
I'm not offended by the comments, more entertained...

Keep'em coming :thumbsup:


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Weird, ain't it...LOL! I mean...everyone is entitled to their opinion, but what element of human nature compells some riders to feel the need to make negative comments about your attire. Now...if you were naked...aaack!...if you were being reckless around other riders...or if you had some part of your bike that was installed in an obviously unsafe manner...I can understand getting an uninvited intervention by another rider who was a complete stranger. But when you get, "hey dude, what in the heck are you wearing that type of helmet for?"...well, I know it's not because they're concerned for my safety. It is somewhat entertaining though, isn't it.


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## 67degrees (Jan 19, 2004)

*Full Face for All Mountain?*

I've been reading this thread and am kinda surprised you guys are discussing full face helmets for All Mountain riding. I use full face helmets for downhill/freeride but have a couple of Giro Xen's for my all mountain riding. I guess the term All Mountain is loosely defined but I think of it as aggressive trail riding which really does not include any large drops, jumps or ultra steep/ rocky technical riding.

Anyone have any comments???


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Full coverage on trails.*



67degrees said:


> I've been reading this thread and am kinda surprised you guys are discussing full face helmets for All Mountain riding. I use full face helmets for downhill/freeride but have a couple of Giro Xen's for my all mountain riding. I guess the term All Mountain is loosely defined but I think of it as aggressive trail riding which really does not include any large drops, jumps or ultra steep/ rocky technical riding.
> 
> Anyone have any comments???


So...people don't fall when trail riding...all trails are smooth and have no technical features that might cause one to fall...when people fall, they never hit their face. Now 67, I approach this in strictly a discussion manner, not a flame fest...and I don't suggest that there is any requirement for riders to wear full coverage helmets. That said, I also realize that doing a 10' drop is more dangerous than a 3' foot drop...for the most part.

On the other hand, how safe or dangerous does a particular ride have to be before one would decide to not even wear a helmet? Well, most of us would say that you should always wear a helmet. Why?...because a strike to the cranial part of our heads can cause death. So...are we saying then that our nose, teeth, jaw, ears, etc. are expendable?...basically yes.

Any of you who ride dirt motorcycles can perhaps make a better connection here, as most of those riders use full coverage helmets all the time, and I'm talking for trail use not just some kind of radical supercross track. Actually I'd rather fall on a supercross track with an open face helmet than many trails I've ridden on...groomed dirt vs. rocks, trees, etc. Additionally one might say that motorcycles go faster than bikes. So, I wouldn't mind falling on my face at 15mph into a rock pile while riding my MTB? Speed isn't always the final issue.

How many here have ridden at Moab? I consider 98% of everything at Moab to be AM or trail riding...some of it fairly gnarly, but most of it is trail. Over the 11 years I've been going there, I can't count the number of busted noses, chins, teeth, and ears that I've seen on fellow riders there. They were just trail riding and most of them not going nearly as fast I usually go. On Porcupine Rim alone, I've seen over 30mph numerous times, but it's really been gnarlier going in some of the places there where I've been almost to a standstill...some of you know the spots. The point is that many trails have plenty of places worthy of really buggering yourself up, so why is it unusual for many riders to want a decent full coverage helmet that is light enough and ventilated enough to ride with? I find it strange that there is not just ambivalence from many riders about others wearing a full coverage helmet for trail riding, there is out-and-out hostility from quite a few. What's up with that?


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## 67degrees (Jan 19, 2004)

*Full Face vs. No Face*

Hey, not trying to stir anything up or cause a flamefest here. I wear a full face helmet often but not all the time. I got involved in Trail Advocacy this year by joining a local group as well as IMBA. One of the things that I've come to realize from listening to this group is that if you hit the trails all armored up with a full face helmet you immediately outrage the anti bike crowd because they have the impression that you will be bombing the trails without any regard to any other trail users. Granted, I see those type of riders on the trail and they make it a challenge for the rest of us responsible riders to fight to keep trails open. So, I feel like the odd man out with this group. There are a couple of technical downhill runs in the park that do merrit full armor and a full face helmet whether there are being bombed with wreckless abandon or not in my opinion. It is all about perception. These guys and gals are 99% cross country riders and racers who will cling to they lycra outfits till the day they die.

Anyhow, I am getting off on a couple of different tangents here but the bottom line is that when I am riding easier trails I am not going to be wearing a full face helmet. If I plan on stepping it up on the risk factor then I would wear nothing else but a full face. When does All Mountain become Downhill/Freeride? The lines are blurred in my opinion.


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## Dan'ger (Aug 26, 2004)

67degrees said:


> ...Anyhow, I am getting off on a couple of different tangents here but the bottom line is that when I am riding easier trails I am not going to be wearing a full face helmet. If I plan on stepping it up on the risk factor then I would wear nothing else but a full face. When does All Mountain become Downhill/Freeride? The lines are blurred in my opinion.


Yes the lines are blurred for sure. IMO, a XC ride becomes AM when the rider decides to take riskier routes and push the limits to epic proportions.

I have it under good authority that Francis is AM for sure. A reliable source has stated that Francis proceeded to chug a Mt. Dew and punch himself in the face before launching off the log which is in reality why he is missing teeth. The subsequent broken wrist, on the other hand, is because he was not wearing a FF helmet. 

I do not have anywhere near the confidence or riding skill Francis has and in my lifetime, probably never will. When I rode the same infamous log drop last weekend, I was wearing my FF and moderate padding.










If you can tell from my red cheeks, I was already overheated by wearing my 3-year old Azonic AZX. It has almost no venting and no real way to remove the excessive padding.

Soquel Demonstration Forest is almost considered to be a mountain bike park. There are many less trail users of other types and full-face helmets are almost a norm there. On the other hand, a mostly fireroad park and bikers wearing full-faced helmets might raise an eyebrow on a poaching sensitive park staff. That does not make it any less acceptable to want to wear a device that offers more inherent safety.


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## Oni (Jan 15, 2004)

*Interesting thread*

Both this one and the other, original one started by TNC have been really informative. My friends and I have discussed this while out riding. One friend even was considering that Italian FF helmet with the tiny mouth guard. He wanted it more to keep vegetation out of his face while riding.

Partially in response to this, I just bought a Giro FF. the Remedy (remedy for a broken face?). It's not for my XC rides, but rather when I'm out riding the local DH. Was getting to the point on that ride where I was getting a good head of steam, and coupled with the new Scott FR bike, I could get myself into a wee bit of trouble. And the hamster running the wheel really hates it when he gets jostled around when I crash.  Haven't worn a FF on a bike since my misspent BMX youth. The vision kinda sucked (especially since we ended up riding around town afterwards, real hard to merge in traffic with a FF), it was warm, and I felt like a I was getting a cheek lift from the pads (which are removable and would probably make the helmet more comfy, albeit perhaps less safe). Not as comfy as my Xen. But if was going to smack a tree at 20 mph, much rather do it in the FF.

Which is a bit of a bad thing as well. When I'm wearing the Roach arm and leg pads, the CF knuckle gloves and now the Remedy, I feel like a superhero. That kinda freaks me out, as I *THINK* I can ride it, and if I can't, the armour will protect me and I'll just walk away. Less pads/helmet make me a more cautious rider.

I looked at the helmet for XC use, and it's just not going to happen for me nor is any other FF. I recognize that I'm riding further, faster and more silly things now then I did when I was I was on my rigid bike (years and years ago). Logically I know I should be probably wear one, but I'm stubborn. I'll just try to do a ninja flip in the air and land on my camelback or sacrifice another body part. 

I might laugh at a group of riders all decked out like "Power Rangers" on a more XC trail. Maybe not. I've had some nasty crashes (one time at band camp, I got stuck in a tree, damned thing gouged my face and was sticking out of the top of my helmet. Had to unbuckle the helmet and leave it attached to the tree to get off the ground. Spent the next two weeks squeezing bark out of my face). But then, I'd like to think I've been riding long enough and at a bunch of different places to realize that everyone has a different level of safety consciousness and leave it at that.

Good thread.

Oni


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Got the Deviant - need to wear it more!*

Many of us in NorCal saw the aftermath of Francis (the MTBR administrator/starter) simple log jump. Helicopter Bill: $24K, Hospital: $49K. I saw the fire trucks and ambulances going up Hihn Mill taking him to the helipad. Wrist broken and two teeth knocked out. Many other teeth chipped and a second mouth cut above the first. The damage from this hard face plant by an excellent rider caused a lot of us to think seriously about a FF helmet. A FF helmet may not have prevented some damage, like the neck and wrist, but it points out the sense of wearing one. It's a lot cheaper than the helicopter and hospital. And the dental bill hasn't even started. The pain isn't so good either.

Two weeks after the accident, another MTBR ride was planned at Demo, and I rode the same Demo trail as Danger above. Along with others, I used this thread and the other one to select FF helmets, and purchased the Deviant. I'm usually between a medium and large, and had the same issue with the Deviant. I went with the Large since the mouth piece was a lot further out and provided much more room for breathing and getting access for the camelback hose. The Medium was way too tight on me. The Large Deviant was slightly loose on me, and could push up a bit. However that just made the chin guard go in front of my nose, and I considered that a benefit. However, the helmet is a bit loose still. It doesn't affect my vision, and and I can't see how it could fall off, so I'm not sure being a little loose is bad. It just helps more with ventilation.

The ventilation in the Deviant was super. Holes and vents everywhere, more so than my Giro Xen. The mouth piece (on the Large) was far away and very well ventilated. On the hot day that gave Danger a hot head with his Azonic, I had no issue problem with the Deviant. I'd planned to take it off on the climbs, but found I had no need. I also didn't need to remove the pads, In fact, the LBS gave me extra big thick pads to help the Large to fit better, and they're not a problem. As it's made, there's no padding in front of the mouth, only on the side cheeks.

I still need to try the Deviant on a really hot day (over 100F) that I tend to ride. I also need to work on getting a tighter fit.

I'm not sure how much regular riding I'll use with the Deviant. But the next day after Demo, I did a Santa Cruz ride. People said it was not as technical as Demo so I didn't take the Deviant. When on one "Oh Sh1t" sort of steep decent, and forgetting to put down my seat after going back up to look for a missing rider, I had a big air endo. It gave me time to think "I wish I was wearing a FF helmet" while I was still flying down the hill. I hit hard on my side and shoulder and side of the head. I have very nasty bruises that are swelling an inch from my side, but didn't break anything on me. (But I broke both deraileurs, my rear rotor, my cables, my bike computer, and the GPS 'safely' in the camelback.) Although this endo turned out alright, it gave the quick lesson that you need to think seriously about wearing the FF on most rides that aren't just rides in the city park.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

I'll probably buy a Met Para-chute for my next helmet, and just use it for everything except resorts and the like. I have a ff and armor for that. I'm generally more conservative on the trails where it would be a huge pita to walk out or be carried out, plus I don't bring full armor. As far as safety goes, thats part of the reason to own a bigger bike if you want to do harder trails. Some terrain that is challenging, even dangerous, on a xc bike is no problem for a good 6" bike. If I want to try to explore the limits, it takes a pretty gnarly trail and full armor, but I can still have fun on trailrides without going as fast as I possibly can. At the same time I do like speed, jumps and the like, so the Met para-chute seems like a good option for me. I'm interested to see how the Devient works out with some of the padding removed, but I'm not convinced this will offer more protection than the para-chute.


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

......


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## tch (May 23, 2006)

*why not sport 2 helmets on the ride?*

I figure most people are riding with some sort of pack. I've noticed that some packs come with armour and FF helmet holders - so why not put the FF and armour in the pack and wear the X-Gen (or similar) for the ride up and switch them out for the ride down. Granted, one would have to know the trail and the upcoming obstacles, but that would give you the best protection vs. comfort.

How many of you pack armour for the downhill portion of your more aggressive trail rides?


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## DM-SC (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm still not understanding why some choose to be negative about what another rider chooses to wear. I know, it's just human nature to make fun or be critical at times...some folks are more prone to doing it than others. Does a rider wearing a FF look different than the norm when on a XC trail? Well, yes, of course they do.

I wear a helmet when I'm riding my motorcycle (just about eveyday) in a state that does NOT require motorcycle riders to wear helmets. Why? Becuase I choose to do so. If some one riding in shorts and flip-flops wants to snicker...well, so be it.

I have a Pryme AL (no pad mod) that I wore for every ride (all XC) until it started getting into the 90's here. It's fine in the 70's and maybe low 80's. In the 90's...no way I can stand it. Hopefully, the helmet makers will be listening and market a more in between helmet sometime soon...


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

> Hopefully, the helmet makers will be listening and market a more in between helmet sometime soon...


i've posted it before, it will NEVER happen in north america thanks to the lawsuit mentality.

(http://www.met-helmets.com/rivenditori/Distributori.jsp?zona=8)


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Maybe it's not just lawyer problems*



ferday said:


> i've posted it before, it will NEVER happen in north america thanks to the lawsuit mentality.
> 
> (http://www.met-helmets.com/rivenditori/Distributori.jsp?zona=8)


Let me say up front I'm an engineer/scientist, not a lawyer. I try to avoid lawyers.

But maybe it's tough to make a face guard that's tough and actually protects, rather than be not much more than a beef-ed up chin strap. Full Face helmets are made thick and sturdy for a reason, likely experience on structure failures, the ease of object penetration with too open a face, and the desire to actually protect the face rather than make a placebo with a style change.

So the legal issues might be as much about real US consumer protection over false advertising and rider's false hopes of protection, as it is silly overblown law suits (which I agree are occasionally an issue too).

I also keep wishing a better helmet would be developed. The helmet designers MUST be listening. It may just be something tough to design for normal XC. And most people don't want to even wear the normal noggin protector. A full head shield will be a good sell to us AM guys, but not many else. So the economics for development of a whole new helmet style just isn't there. (Lots of engineering money, small market)

Perhaps some evolution from a FF may be possible. My Deviant was very well ventilated, so they're getting close. In fact, the strong comprehensive protection of a good full face helmet with super ventilation is what I'm really looking for anyway. A fragile chin or nose guard may be worse than useless, with a false sense of protection. Sometimes potential lawsuits may actually have merit in protecting people.


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

why do you guys keep making up crap that doesn't exist? i'm starting to think the over-marketing and hype of "AM" is actually created by you guys, not the manufacturers...

the parachute (and old giro switchblades) are light and wearable for AM, but don't offer the protection of a DH fullface (but arguably more than a regular XC helmet). a DH fullface offers the protection, but isn't light and wearable.

AND NEVER THE TWAIN SHALL MEET... unless some seriously exotic materials are used (are you gonna pay over $600 for a helmet? not a chance you cheap AM riders...) this is an impossibility. do you think these companies are blind? AM is the *largest potential market* in all of MTB, by a massive margain (excepting roadies of course). all of the big guys are developing like mad to get their piece of it, it's guys like MET that ARE pushing the helmet envelope.

there's a large amount of engineers and such on these forums, get off your asses and prove me wrong...i still won't buy one though, i'm more than happy with my skid lid thank you.


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## DM-SC (Jan 12, 2004)

ferday said:


> why do you guys keep making up crap that doesn't exist? i'm starting to think the over-marketing and hype of "AM" is actually created by you guys, not the manufacturers...
> 
> the parachute (and old giro switchblades) are light and wearable for AM, but don't offer the protection of a DH fullface (but arguably more than a regular XC helmet). a DH fullface offers the protection, but isn't light and wearable.


Not sure what the heck you mean...

The Switchblade and MET helmets are what most of us who normally wear a regular XC lid would like to at least TRY.

As for making AM up...I think AM is nothing more than an evolution of XC riding. More trails with more challenges are being built and ridden. Longer travel bikes that can actually be peddaled. Riders who are have been riding longer and ar now looking for a bit more challenge but, they aren't interested in true DH riding.

Put it all together and the result is, the equipment we need (or at least think we need) to have fun changes. I ride harder and take more chances today than I did 10 years ago. Call it what ever you like...but, evolution is a real thing.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*You're entitled to your opinion...*



ferday said:


> why do you guys keep making up crap that doesn't exist? i'm starting to think the over-marketing and hype of "AM" is actually created by you guys, not the manufacturers...
> 
> the parachute (and old giro switchblades) are light and wearable for AM, but don't offer the protection of a DH fullface (but arguably more than a regular XC helmet). a DH fullface offers the protection, but isn't light and wearable.
> 
> ...


And so is everyone else...but no need to get that negative about it..."you cheap AM riders". Cheap?...I'll have you know that many AM riders are spending as much or more than any other category of gear-whoring MTB'ers...and proud of it.

On a serious note, I think you're wrong about, "never the twain shall meet". A helmet designed along the lines of a DH lid with creative padding and extensive venting can be designed and manufactured at a reasonable price. A modded Pryme AL is very close to this. Having had 3 Switchblades over the years, I agree that they do not offer the protection that many are looking for. The Switchblade and Met Parachute use that thin-skinned plastic and foam design that won't stand up to the level of integrity of the shell/chin design and materials in a fiberglass, thermoplastic, or carbon full coverage helmet. IMO it's not the helmet shell material that makes it hot, it's the ventilation and padding design that trap heat. Thin plastic shell design doesn't really let any more air inside the helmet than a thicker built DH style, but the number and design of the vents, the padding design/material, and the "stand off" distance make a dramatic difference. In fact, once I modded the Pryme, the stand off area within certain areas of the helmet is what really worked well to increase air flow to the vents. My hat's off to Met for doing something, but the integrity of that helmet isn't much better than the old Switchblade...which was lacking IMO. The harder shell of a DH style helmet is still what some are looking for...just with more creativity.

Larry, I'll throw out one other possible issue other than lawyers that may be impacting the introduction of this type of helmet...peer pressure. We've touched on this somewhat, but I think there is a notable level of "negativity" experienced on the trail when full coverage helmets are introduced. And I think some folks at the old helmet factory are among these types of riders who feel that negative issue. Please note that this is a vague opinion not based on any statistical study.


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

TNC said:


> And so is everyone else...but no need to get that negative about it..."you cheap AM riders". Cheap?...I'll have you know that many AM riders are spending as much or more than any other category of gear-whoring MTB'ers...and proud of it.
> 
> On a serious note, I think you're wrong about, "never the twain shall meet".


ah TNC, a voice of reason. i didn't mean to come across negative (should use more happy smilies i guess), but the AM forum is already starting to develop some sort of elitist attitude, as if there is something new here...(sorry guys, AM is not new by a long shot). and believe me, i'm a gear-whore of the worst degree...

i technically agree with you about the helmets, but it's quite the fine line between protection and venting/lightweight. after enough "creativity" with the airflow, the protection is ruined. and there are the legal issues whether we agree with them or not...marketing use and real life use are completely different things unfortunately.

on that note, i've never experienced any of this "negativity" surrounding fullface on the trails, i'm more inclined to laugh when it's over 100' out and i see a fully armored guy riding high alpine...but when i take a bail i'm sure it's him that's laughing!


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

ferday said:


> ... unless some seriously exotic materials are used (are you gonna pay over $600 for a helmet? not a chance you cheap AM riders...) this is an impossibility. do you think these companies are blind? AM is the *largest potential market* in all of MTB, by a massive margain (excepting roadies of course). all of the big guys are developing like mad to get their piece of it, it's guys like MET that ARE pushing the helmet envelope.
> 
> there's a large amount of engineers and such on these forums, get off your asses and prove me wrong...i still won't buy one though, i'm more than happy with my skid lid thank you.


Specialized Deviant is one good example and I think Specialized is a company big enough to consider potential legal implications. The Deviant is expensive and unfortunately doesn't fit me well but otherwise i would have bought it as it meets my idea of light and strong for AM riding (and in fact is not cheap...)

When people ask about my body armor I reply that I broke my shoulder twice and that's enough for me to consider these alternatives. There are gifted riders out there that never crash and don't feel the need for protection. I'm fine with that. I'm not one of them. :nono:

I agree with DM-SC that AM is evolution of XC... there will always be people who point and laugh and argue, otherwise it wouldn't be evolution.


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## Dan'ger (Aug 26, 2004)

ferday said:


> ah TNC, a voice of reason. i didn't mean to come across negative (should use more happy smilies i guess), but the AM forum is already starting to develop some sort of elitist attitude, as if there is something new here...(sorry guys, AM is not new by a long shot). and believe me, i'm a gear-whore of the worst degree...
> 
> i technically agree with you about the helmets, but it's quite the fine line between protection and venting/lightweight. after enough "creativity" with the airflow, the protection is ruined. and there are the legal issues whether we agree with them or not...marketing use and real life use are completely different things unfortunately.
> 
> on that note, i've never experienced any of this "negativity" surrounding fullface on the trails, i'm more inclined to laugh when it's over 100' out and i see a fully armored guy riding high alpine...but when i take a bail i'm sure it's him that's laughing!


Sounds like someone finally got around to slamming a Dew and punching himself in the face!


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

> Sounds like someone finally got around to slamming a Dew and punching himself in the face!


i had wrote a long reply about AM, but this about sums it up. thanks for the laugh!!!


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Hey stripes...could you elaborate on the "compromised the protection" comment? I'm just curious what your detailed experiences were on the modded setup that you didn't like. It might help others here. Can you post a closeup pic of the modded interior? Maybe the more we exchange info on some of these modded setups, the better franken-helmet we can come up with...LOL!


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## mkiv808 (Jun 16, 2006)

shiggy said:


> The shell color makes little difference. The foam liner is a great insulator.
> 
> But if you think black will be hotter, you will probably feel hotter in black.


Well, black would be an issue in the sun. It's just simple science that black heats up faster than white. If the shell itself heats up more, certainly the interior will become hotter.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Sounds like...*



stripes said:


> Easy.. where you remove the lower padding, if something would hit me on the jawline, the plastic shell sans padding may shred my face.
> 
> Just not worth the compromise IMHO.


You may have removed too much material. That rubber pad in the jaw/chin area doesn't disrupt air flow to any degree as it's already slotted for the vents there. I didn't remove any of the rubber parts that would have allowed hard or sharp fiberglass to touch my face in a crash. I'd agree...that wouldn't be good.:eekster:

Here's a closeup of the interior and the jaw area. That's a rubber pad in the jaw area. I only removed neck, cheek, and ear fabric padding. All rubber and styrofoam parts are still intact. IMO it was just the thick fabric padding in the cheek, neck, and ear areas that trapped heat.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

TNC said:


> And so is everyone else...but no need to get that negative about it..."you cheap AM riders". Cheap?...I'll have you know that many AM riders are spending as much or more than any other category of gear-whoring MTB'ers...and proud of it.
> ....
> 
> Larry, I'll throw out one other possible issue other than lawyers that may be impacting the introduction of this type of helmet...peer pressure. We've touched on this somewhat, but I think there is a notable level of "negativity" experienced on the trail when full coverage helmets are introduced. And I think some folks at the old helmet factory are among these types of riders who feel that negative issue. Please note that this is a vague opinion not based on any statistical study.


The Deviant is only $130. I paid full price of $150 for my Xen. I don't consider that horribly expensive for a good helmet. The $500 dollars for the carbon only saves you 10% or so in weight, 900 grams versus 1000. I thought it was light enough in the fiberglass version.

Perhaps a better way to say it is not peer pressure, but accepted custom. The Tour de France riders for 100 years didn't wear helmets, even though it made a lot of sense and the helmets were getting better. Now, nobody would think of not wearing one.

It's true some worry about the impression they give when they're dressed up like a Ninja Turtle for aggressive XC rides. Full Face and/or armor could even scare non-MTB hikers and give MTB a bad image until it becomes common place. 
In the standard market dilemma, not many of those ventilated FF helmets for XC are going to sell until they become common practice. And it won't become common practice until a good FF helmet exists. Perhaps a good market campaign by one of the helmet leaders (like Specialized), along with massive posting of pictures of the aftermath of our fearless moderator, Francois, will convince more to do it.

Even at the repeat Demo ride, right after Francois ill fate, Dan and I were the only ones out of 30 riders who went for a FF helmet. And I'm still oddly self-debating on how much I want to wear it, even though it would have been great on an endo the very next day. It's going to take time to change the XC/AM habits, regardless of helmet quality.


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## GuruAtma (May 17, 2004)

The Met helmet sure looks like just what we need---a well ventilated helmet that is for aggressive trail riding, not for the Red Bull Rampage, but still protects the face. Who knows if it's really strong enough? It's too bad we don't have a chance to find out.

Maybe riders in other countries can comment.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

GuruAtma said:


> The Met helmet sure looks like just what we need---a well ventilated helmet that is for aggressive trail riding, not for the Red Bull Rampage, but still protects the face. Who knows if it's really strong enough? It's too bad we don't have a chance to find out.


You can order it from England here :thumbsup: :

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=2407

I agree, this is exactly what I want for riding more difficult trails around CO, but I can see where others may want a heavier-duty helmet. It just depends on riding style and ability. I am NOT going to push the limits on my 7" front/ 6" rear bike without FULL armor. When I am trailriding, I am out to have fun, and I do enjoy a technical challenge. I personally draw the line where riding a section of trail requires full commitment, and the penalty for not pulling it off would be severe. However, this limit is different for all riders. I was out today with a guy that rode stuff similar to a black diamond trail at Keystone with just an xc helmet, but he was so skilled and smooth that this terrain is easily within his abilities. For my skill level, I wouldnt try some stuff on that trail without my armor... I guess when I'm miles from the nearest help, I try to give myself a safety factor, and don't attempt stuff I could get seriously hurt trying with no armor on. On the other hand, if you have a long travel bike, it is easily capable of handling very technical terrain, and can achieve high speeds thru some pretty rough stuff, this is where the Met helmet comes in. I'm not going balls-out, but the nature of riding a long travel bike is such that an xc helmet does not inspire enough confidence for me, especially since I'm an intermediate who will make more mistakes and not have the experience and bike-handling skills of an expert.

As far as the Met not providing enough protection, I'm not sure a "modded" ff dh helmet will be as good as the Met? Why? Because the padding needs to be there to cushion the impact, its the way a ff is designed to work. It is not designed to crush and break like an xc helmet. The Met has a face protector made like an xc helmet, and does NOT require padding to function properly. The styrofoam will crush and break before your face does, dissipating impact forces (to a point). An unpadded section of a ff will just jam the fiberglass shell into your face... I would argue that without actual testing of a modded ff, you could possibly be making this helmet dangerous to the user. How do you know? I guess you could go on feel and intuition, but I'd rather trust the engineers at Met, who have carefully designed a face protector that will actually dissipate impact forces properly. I'm NOT saying this is a comparable product to an un-modded ff. The dh/moto helmets obviously were designed to dissipate A LOT more force than a xc helmet, I just think removing padding MIGHT be dangerous, to the point a para-chute could be a better choice.

Ultimately, we need to honestly evaluate how much risk we take, and prepare ourselves accordingly... If I try to clean all parts of the trail I rode today, I will have armor and an unmodified ff helmet, unless my skills get a lot better. I generally do not need to bring armor to feel safe, but this trail was tough! (South St. Vrain Trail, Front Range, CO)...


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## Oni (Jan 15, 2004)

*Someone, just buy the Met Parachute!*

Do the R&D, and tell the rest of us how you like/dislike it. 

Oni R&D Onza clipless, Trek forks, Real cassette and other stupid things, so it's time for someone else to take the hit (um, not literally) for the team!


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## Dan'ger (Aug 26, 2004)

*From the Chain Reaction Cycles Site*



 










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MET Parachute

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Total Number Of Reviews: 25 Average: 4.16




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******Blizzard writes...* from Unknown 21 April 2004 18:10Allthough i wont be able to use it for a while due to a broken collarbone (broke my last lid in the same crash!), i can compare it to the giro Switchblade. The strap system on the Parachute is vastly superior to the giro, and the pads give a better, more secure and comfortable fit. The parachute also offers a wider range of adjustment than the giro. They both weigh about the same, which is very light compared with other full face lids. The styleing of the parachute is odd, but once you have got used to it it actually looks pretty good, and it also looks good without the chin guard, unlike the giro. Very well ventilated, more so than the giro. Sizing is a little small (large will probably fit down to a 55-56 head) so if u are boarder line go for the large, allthough a snug fit is good to prevent the helmet slipping about. Visibility is very impressive, u can hardly notice it is a full face lid.
One last point, the flowery one looks really good and goes damn well with the wierd looks of the helmet, but is not for people who dont want to be noticed. Was this review helpful to you? YES NO69 People out of 84 Found this review useful.

*Anonymous from Canada 25 February 2005 10:26Do not buy this helmet unless you ride moderate XC. I've been living in this country for about 2 years to work ON my dirt jumping. I lived and rode downhill in Whistler and the North Shore for 3 years and the amount of people that snaPped the chin piece and messed up the face is staggering. STAY AWAY FROM THIS LIKE THE PLAGUEWas this review helpful to you? YES NO67 People out of 84 Found this review useful.

******Anonymous writes...* from Unknown 13 June 2003 14:31awesome!!!
make sure u get the right size because u really need a tight fit. the front guard sticks out a bit far but who gives a ..... its very light and looks pretty cool. ive got the titanium and its great. 90 squid is a reasonable price so if uve got the money this is the .....Was this review helpful to you? YES NO58 People out of 72 Found this review useful.

******Craig Sumner writes...* from Unknown 18 November 2003 21:31i listened to the other guy........ he was completly correct! 
this helmet looks great is light and can be used on any MTB scene.
the bolts for the chin guard are metal but are easy to undo.
the silver looks great. 
comfy new style pads are sooooo much better than my old 20000 crackerjack and the clip system is pure artwork. 
measure up good cos u need the right size. 
this helmet looks good with or without the chin guard. ear room was not a problem for me. i can even wear shades. 
the price is ok but for the quality u have to pay this bit more. if u want the helmet with the same quality but no chin guard go for the met anaxgore 2. same looks same quality. no chin guard but cheaper.
(comes with a three year guarantee and a full face helmet bag ! YAY!)Was this review helpful to you? YES NO58 People out of 70 Found this review useful.

******nice helmet writes...* from Unknown 07 January 2004 20:29this helmet is da best. I got mine about a week ago and it rocks. i have taken it on some pretty rough stuff and it barely rattles at all (you do need a tight fit). mines in titanium but the flowers still look cool. For 90 quid its a bit expensive for a helmet but it saved my life once already and it makes you more confident on big drops and jumps.
if you got the money buy one!Was this review helpful to you? YES NO57 People out of 74 Found this review useful.

******curious writes...* from Unknown 29 December 2003 20:54the titanium is a wicked colour, but i want to know what the flowery one looks like, should i have got that instead?????????Was this review helpful to you? YES NO55 People out of 72 Found this review useful.

******Jimmytheone writes...* from Unknown 20 June 2004 21:40Had this helmet 6 months and have to say it is excellent. Great protection aned ideal for freeride, it adds confidence and doesnt look bad either. I rode into a branch and the face guard although looling flimsy steped away intact along with my face!Was this review helpful to you? YES NO54 People out of 68 Found this review useful.

*****Andy D writes...* from Unknown 12 May 2004 08:32Comfortable and light, you hardly know it's a full face, it does not restrict you in anyway. Protection is great aroound the ears and face. A good cross XC full race but not an alternative to the heavey down hill helmetsWas this review helpful to you? YES NO52 People out of 63 Found this review useful.

****Andy writes...* from Unknown 21 May 2004 18:33jUST HAD A BIT OF A WIPE OUT WEARING MINE AND RECKON I'D HAVE A BROKEN CHEEK BONE WITH A NORMAL HELMETWas this review helpful to you? YES NO48 People out of 66 Found this review useful.

******mini lenny writes...* from Unknown 14 March 2004 12:41the best all round helmet out there except the switchblade. i got the titanium one but my mates got the flowery one and it looks sweet i was worried it would look girlie but looks sorted. i never ridden with the chin guard off but with it one it is a great confidence builder and looks the part, bit pricey but well worth it. GO BUYWas this review helpful to you? YES NO43 People out of 59 Found this review useful.

****big lenny writes...* from Unknown 20 December 2003 13:12very light and comfortable, but possibly the most mingin' helmet ive ever seen!!!!!!!!!!
I much prefer the giro switchblade and its cheaper!Was this review helpful to you? YES NO42 People out of 60 Found this review useful.

******Stinky boy writes...* from Unknown 15 August 2004 12:10I got this, the flowery version as my m8 got the titanium, its bin pretty good + you get the looks rather than the dull tit.. hasnt saved my yet but then i any fallen yet!! s'all good part from the paddin comes out but nowt a bit of double sided stiky tape cant fix :-DWas this review helpful to you? YES NO40 People out of 56 Found this review useful.

*****McLean writes...* from Unknown  11 November 2004 17:53Well constructed - gets a bit hot around the ears when climbing. Gives you the confidence without the weight penalties (especially if you've ever hit a tree with your face). Not quite as heavy as the Giro equivalent (switchblade). I haven't crashed it yet either. Compared to my other full face lids (hanggliding) the chin guard doesn't fit as close to your jaw line and isn't particularly well padded either - but I guess it's a trade off with ventilation for cycling.Was this review helpful to you? YES NO37 People out of 52 Found this review useful.

****Ian from United Kingdom Owner 25 October 2005 11:465 Months since getting my first Met Parachute. Managed to smash the first one within 2 weeks of purchase and the replacement within 3 months of receiving it. Now, it is worth stating that on both occasions (both crashes happened during fairly big jumps) the helmet protected my head well. I did have bruising on my face as the chinguard isn't padded and consequently any hard knock to the side of the helmet can result in the chin guard coming into contact with your face (unlike a proper full face helmet where there is padding to the side of the helmet). However, if you ride aggressive XC (as opposed to more freeride/downhill) then the Met is ideal as it does give greater protection than a standard XC helmet whilst retaining the same flow/weight characteristics. If you tend to ride more DH/freeride consider something a little more sturdy.Was this review helpful to you? YES NO25 People out of 27 Found this review useful.

*****Bill Rockwood from United States Owner 04 November 2005 01:36Very attractive, comfortable, vents good, its very light, and it does not limit vision at all. It is CE Certified. Glasses fit good under helmet. I just bought it last week and took a four hour ride on rough rocky terrain. It fits really good and is super comfortable. It also looks really cool. The chin gaurd would probably might break if you took a hard face plant but it offers great protection for those that are recreation mountain bikers from tree branches, rock outcroppings, and would keep the teeth and jaw intact in a mild fall. A great buy in my opinion plus it has a three year warranty. Was this review helpful to you? YES NO20 People out of 23 Found this review useful.

****Anonymous from United Kingdom Owner 13 December 2005 17:44So far this helmet has done me very well. donot buy this helmet if you DH or do lots of high impact, dangerous stuff. Its not like other Full face helmets. Its more for XC. For me it was perfect, I wanted a light, breathable helmet but with the added protection afforded by the jaw guard. Its not nearly as hot as most full-face helmets, but then again its not really the same. If you are an XC or just general all rounder that wants something with a little more protection this will do the job great. To be fair, its not a full crash helmet though. You can unscrew the jaw gurds so you can use it for road biking too. Its really good for what it is, doesnt obscure vision, you can drink with it on using a camel back too. The only thing is it is pricey, but I think its pretty unique on the market. Great helmet. 4/5 only because of high (worth it really though) priceWas this review helpful to you? YES NO20 People out of 23 Found this review useful.

*****simon berggren from Sweden Owner 22 November 2005 18:59i bought this helmet 1 year ago and when i crashed and broke my collarbone, it broke. but the helmet saved my life! its a very light " full-face helmet", looks ok, feels nice, but its to expensive. 3/5 but ill give it a 5 since the protections was good when i crashed. Was this review helpful to you? YES NO19 People out of 22 Found this review useful.

*Ronan from Ireland Owner 26 September 2005 21:02I have one of these, the face guard is very flimsy, for serious downhill this thing will not do the job, just get a proper downhill helmet, and a road type, I ended up taking the face off as I dont trust it. Was this review helpful to you? YES NO19 People out of 22 Found this review useful.

**Anonymous from United Kingdom 02 November 2005 11:28Anyone who has this helmet and thinks it offers good protection is having a laugh. The main helmet bit should be spot on by the looks of it, but that chin guard is gonna do pretty much nothing in a PROPER crash. Instead of being lulled into a false sense of security by the guard, why don't you get a proper full face (there's a reason why they are heavier and less ventilated........) and/or a piss pot......You can get a Bell Bellistic and piss pot on this site for less than the price of this thing. Was this review helpful to you? YES NO18 People out of 20 Found this review useful.

*****Jonesy from United Kingdom Owner 05 December 2005 14:12Buy one, it will save your chin. Light enough to be used as a hard xc lid and tough enough for freeriding, jumps etc. I would say if your only downhilling, then buy a full face lidWas this review helpful to you? YES NO17 People out of 20 Found this review useful.

*****David from United Kingdom Owner 14 November 2005 20:43Had one of these for 8 months. Been OK in the summer - not too hot. Looks a bit cumbersome maybe and I agree with the guy from Canada - face shield would break in a hard face plant. However, I had a big hit (15-20 mph) just above my left eye with a foot-diameter tree this weekend at Nant yr Arian. Very loud ringing in the ears and a bit stunned but remained conscious and was on my feet in a few minutes. Finished the ride. No visible damage to the helmet but I will get it replaced. I was impressed.Was this review helpful to you? YES NO17 People out of 20 Found this review useful.

*****Anonymous from United Kingdom Owner 16 January 2006 16:26I think this is a great lid Expensive but great !!! I'm 41 ride heavy cross country a bit of free ride, 4 foot drop off's and have a play on down hill runs every now and again.It's light, cool on the head has taken 2/3 big impacts.I love it best buy I've had for a long time. Was this review helpful to you? YES NO12 People out of 16 Found this review useful.

*****Dan from Australia Owner 26 April 2006 11:03For aggressive XC/All Mountain this thing is the ticket. I have had mine for 15mths now and it has saved my face twice. Finally managed to smash the top part recently headbutting the ground. It is not a DH lid. If you do hardcore stuff get a fullface. If you do XC get XC helmet. For anything in between this might save your face. Having face planted with a XC lid it is not a good day out. Get a ParachuteWas this review helpful to you? YES NO8 People out of 10 Found this review useful.

****Andrew from United Kingdom 27 April 2006 14:32Firstly, this is NOT a downhill helmet as some people who have written reviews seem to think. But if you knew anything at all about downhill you'd know that. I'm on my second one of these. The first one was replaced under the crash replacement warranty when a drop off went horribly wrong. I landed on my jaw from about 6 foot, the helmet shell split, as I believe it's designed to do but the chin guard stayed in tact and certainly saved my rugged good looks and a hefty dental bill. I walked away with nothing more than a scratches to my chest. In my crash tested opinion this helmet is certainly strong enough to take the knocks when it matters. Once you've ridden with this helmet for a few minutes you actually forget all about the chin guard, that is until you try to eat or drink something with it on. It's comfortable, fairly light, relatively cool and can easily be used as an all day XC helmets. In fact, I've ridden Enduros and 24 hours events with it. The only criticism I have really is that the pads don't seem to last very long. All in all this is a very good helmet that can be used for all day XC rides or Freeride will the added assurance of a little extra protection around the face area. But is NOT a downhill helmet (not that it's marketed as one). Oh, and Ronan from Ireland, "the face guard is very flimsy, for serious downhill this thing will not do the job, just get a proper downhill helmet, and a road type, I ended up taking the face off as I don't trust it". You don't trust the chin guard so you remove it. So do you think it's safer without it? You numpty. Was this review helpful to you? YES NO8 People out of 10 Found this review useful.

****Teppo from Finland Owner 04 May 2006 10:30Anyone who buys this helmet for downhill is an idiot. The Parachute is not a downhill helmet. At best it'll do the job for aggressive XC/Freeride. Was this review helpful to you? YES NO7 People out of 9 Found this review useful.


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## uktrailmonster (Oct 10, 2004)

I've had experience of both the Met Parachute and Casco Viper MX (my current helmet). I think these are both a good compromise for a trail rider looking for a little more face protection. Neither are DH helmets. I think the Casco has the better chin guard design. It's lighter and clips on/off without screws so it's more of a genuine convertible than the Met. Fit is down to personal preference, but I prefer the strap/tension system on the Met.

I also recently tried the Deviant in the local shop. It's certainly a great looking design. It seemed a lot closer to a proper DH helmet than either the Casco or Met. The main difference is the face padding, which I thought would be too sweaty for general trail use. I guess that's why the Casco and Met use chin guards without face padding. So I'm not sure who the Deviant is really aimed at.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Those reviews sound just like the Switchblade results...interesting.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Must be that pointed head.*



stripes said:


> No, I left the jaw/chin area alone. I removed the exact same padding you did.
> 
> When I removed the cheek padding, I noticed the helmet moves around too much for me. A blow to the lower part of the jaw itself (NOT the jaw/chin bar) would render the helmet useless. Removing the neck padding made the most difference, with the least amount of compromise.
> 
> There's definitely going to be some technical rides I use it for, and I think as I get accustomed to the Pryme, it's going to be my primary helmet (unmodified of course).


LOL!...well, obviously I'm kidding. As shiggy had pointed (no pun ) out, if the helmet doesn' t fit the noggin properly, it won't get the job done. I've done a couple of low speed face plants in rock sections so far with mine, and it's stayed put. One of them just about ripped off the visor. One thing came to mind on your description there. I wonder if one size smaller helmet would be a better fit once the aforementioned padding areas are removed? Just thinking out loud here.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Yeah, I wanted a ff for dh this year, Deviant was nice, but seemed less sturdy than most others. Went with the Bellistic for $67... 1/2 the price of the Deviant, seems sturdier, and at Keystone and Vail, its not too hot. If you want the sturdiest helmet for extreme use, look for a DOT approved helmet, because if its not DOT/SNELL approved, it only has to meet the standards for regular bike helmets (xc). I actually called Bell about this, and they can't say the Bellistic will protect you any better than an xc helmet, it just has more coverage. They recomment if you go over 35 mph, get a DOT helmet, as they are tested up to 60 or more mph, and have more stringent guidelines as far as padding and materials.

It seems obvious that the Bellistic will protect better than an xc, but there are NO guidelines on how much more protection you get vs. an xc helmet. So, there can be huge differences in how well different models of ff helmets will protect you.

Bell said to check out www.helmets.org for more info...


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## uktrailmonster (Oct 10, 2004)

davec113 said:


> Yeah, I wanted a ff for dh this year, Deviant was nice, but seemed less sturdy than most others. Went with the Bellistic for $67... 1/2 the price of the Deviant, seems sturdier, and at Keystone and Vail, its not too hot. If you want the sturdiest helmet for extreme use, look for a DOT approved helmet, because if its not DOT/SNELL approved, it only has to meet the standards for regular bike helmets (xc). I actually called Bell about this, and they can't say the Bellistic will protect you any better than an xc helmet, it just has more coverage. They recomment if you go over 35 mph, get a DOT helmet, as they are tested up to 60 or more mph, and have more stringent guidelines as far as padding and materials.
> 
> It seems obvious that the Bellistic will protect better than an xc, but there are NO guidelines on how much more protection you get vs. an xc helmet. So, there can be huge differences in how well different models of ff helmets will protect you.
> 
> Bell said to check out www.helmets.org for more info...


Yeah, that's the point I was making about the Deviant. It seems too light to be a proper DH helmet and too enlcosed / sweaty for regular trail riding. So who is it for? Extremely cautious trail riders or extremely brave Downhillers?

I think both Met and Casco have hit the middle ground with the Parachute and Viper MX. They both offer mild face protection on what are otherwise regular XC helmets. I think that's a good compromise for trail riders who just want that little bit more protection than a standard XC lid offers. Having said that, the deviant might make a great cold weather trail riding helmet. Perhaps I should use the Viper MX in the summer and Deviant in winter and more dangerous trails. Or is that just an excuse to buy yet another helmet?


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## GuruAtma (May 17, 2004)

After having read all the above posts, I got myself a Deviant for my trip to Downieville this past weekend. For those unfamiliar, Downivielle is in the Sierras of California and hosts an annual downhill race, but several of the trails involve a fair share of uphill peddling. It was 90 degrees at the bottom of the trail.

If the Met would have been available at a local shop, I proabably would have went for that since I'm a fairly conservative rider anyway.

I took Big Larry's advice and went for a large size (I'm between medium and large) and added extra pads in non-venting/ non-sweaty areas. This gave me a bit better air circulation and more room to get the camelbak hose in my mouth.

Overall I felt pretty cool in the helmet. The main difference I noticed was the cheek pads, but with a litttle fish-face contortions I could get airflow there too. Cruising down hill I could definitely feel air blowing over my scalp, ears, and face. The mouth piece didn't get in the way when huffing and puffing on the climbs either. It did get in the way when I wanted to hock a loogie. Oh well.

When riding the shuttle up to the trail head, other bikers with FF helmets where impressed with the light weight, but admonished me to get some dirt and scratches on it as soon as possible.


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

croatiansensation said:


> I know this question is outside our current comparison here, but it seemed like the right place to ask it. Does any one have any experience with or opinons of the azonic t-55 helmet that I see on sale everywhere? The venting looks pretty decent IMO. . .


Well, I pulled the trigger and bought an x-large t-55; just couldn't resist Jenson's $40 price. I haven't used it in anger yet, but my first impression is that it is pretty decent. It weighs about 3 lbs. on the 'ol bathroom scale which puts it at about what the manufacturer says. It looks way more durable than some of the 661 helmets I have looked at, and the pads are pretty top notch, comparable to some of the motorcycle helmets I have owned in the past. Initial fit seems very comfortable (I'm one of the oblong head shaped freaks), but a little loose. I have a head size of about 60.3cm, which is right on the break between the L and XL sizes, so that could be why it is a little loose. As you can see from the pics below venting is pretty decent, but definitely not as good as the pryme's venting.


















Update: Rode with it a couple of weekends ago in 100+ degree heat with all the padding in, and was pleasantly suprised. It was only a little warmer than my regular XC lid. Visibility is excellent, but it is a little bulky. Overall, I would have to say I'm really pleased with this helmet, and I totally recommend it.


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## tald (Jun 28, 2004)

So which is cooler? Deviant or Pryme AL?


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## macdaddyg2006 (Jun 8, 2006)

*Let the madness end...*

So which one? :madman:

Deviant
Remedy
Pryme AL
Casco Viper
MET Parachute?


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## ExCactus (Jun 29, 2009)

You just revived a 2 year old thread... There are a lot of threads about this.... Do more searches, it depends on cost and fit so ifnd what works for you.


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