# Source for steel sliding dropouts?



## jocko (Apr 29, 2005)

Anyone know where one can buy steel sliding dropouts? Not stainless. I've used the Black Cat dropouts from Todd with good success, wondering what other options are out there. Prefer to brass braze the dropouts. Thanks.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Get some nickel silver...*

...or learn to TIG. Seriously, stainless dropouts are not that hard to deal with.

So to answer your question, um, I don't know of any. Sorry.

-Walt



jocko said:


> Anyone know where one can buy steel sliding dropouts? Not stainless. I've used the Black Cat dropouts from Todd with good success, wondering what other options are out there. Prefer to brass braze the dropouts. Thanks.


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## fanzy4 (Aug 19, 2004)

There's the "Rohloff" sliding dropouts, sold by Ceeway.
Also the one from 2SoulsCycles
And I still have some of the one that Pacenti made approx. 2 years ago, that were looking very much like Paragons.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm hesitant to post this since I've never done it, but I'm pretty sure nickel silver will work. It brazes just like brass. The only time I've ever used it with stainless it wetted out just fine, but that was on a throwaway tool.


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## jocko (Apr 29, 2005)

Wasn't aware nickel silver would work. Will give that a try.

My interest in sticking with brass is more a cost issue, I've done stainless. With some better technique I could probably use less silver...

Walt - I'd love to learn to tig, was that an offer to teach? kidding. I've taking a few tig tutorials from a local welder. Next step is to drop the $ on a tig setup.


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## jgerhardt (Aug 31, 2009)

I just finished up a SS rack using the nickel rods that Hank sells and that stuff is a total PITA to work with!
It does not flow anywhere near as well as brass. Also you need to work crazy fast, as because it melts at a higher temp than brass you tend to burn off the flux before you can get in there. I ended up with some crazy bulbous fillet's that didn't file anywere near as nicely as brass.

So, I would definitely do some practice attempts before you go with a final product...


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

fanzy4 said:


> There's the "Rohloff" sliding dropouts, sold by Ceeway.
> And I still have some of the one that Pacenti made approx. 2 years ago, that were looking very much like Paragons.


Those ceeway ones suck, IMO. thin, thin. I used them once. 
The "Pacenti" ones by IRD are sold in the USA by Merry Sales.
- Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.


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## febikes (Jan 28, 2011)

jocko said:


> Walt - I'd love to learn to tig, was that an offer to teach? kidding. I've taking a few tig tutorials from a local welder. Next step is to drop the $ on a tig setup.


I am still learning TIG but really it does not seem that hard so I say buy a small welder and get going with it. Making TIG welds is fairly easy. Even bad tig welds seem crazy strong so making strong welds is also easy.

I build my first frame about two weeks after getting my first TIG welder and really it is ugly but it sure gets the job done and has proved to be strong enough to handle at least 2k miles including lots of really harsh rocky trails on east and west coast. I don't want to get overconfident but I think the frame will actually last a while.

The thing that seems hard right now is making "pretty" welds. I am getting better but it is not easy to make the welds look good. Frankly I like that it is hard because it confirms my belief that TIG is a "honest" technique where a good looking weld is actually a good weld. Nothing beats hood time and slowly my welding is starting to look a bit better.

In the context of dropouts the hooded style is easier to work with for me with much nicer looking results:

I had a lot of trouble with the Paragon drops mostly because the lower cost non hooded style don't produce as nice a looking miter/bead.

The following is ugly but at this point I am upfront in that I am not yet very good at TIG. These results represent what I get from working with a TIG a bit over the summer with no prior welding experience.


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## fanzy4 (Aug 19, 2004)

coconinocycles said:


> Those ceeway ones suck, IMO. thin, thin. I used them once.


Yep. In europe we mostly see them on city bikes, where they are probably more than enough. 


> The "Pacenti" ones by IRD are sold in the USA by Merry Sales.


Thanks for the information, I thought they were completely discontinued. Always good to know you can find spare parts somewhere...


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## Cracked Headtube (Apr 16, 2006)

{{ The "Pacenti" ones by IRD are sold in the USA by Merry Sales.}}

I think they are stainless.


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## jocko (Apr 29, 2005)

Mark - what TIG welder did you get? Impressions?


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

jocko said:


> Wasn't aware nickel silver would work. Will give that a try.
> 
> My interest in sticking with brass is more a cost issue, I've done stainless. With some better technique I could probably use less silver...
> 
> Walt - I'd love to learn to tig, was that an offer to teach? kidding. I've taking a few tig tutorials from a local welder. Next step is to drop the $ on a tig setup.


Nickel silver or german silver is a nickel/copper based rod. There is no silver. The Nickel helps to wet out stainless and can work fine. I find the stuff a bit hard to work with and requires a ton of heat but it does work.

If you want to reduce your silver load when brazing on drop-outs create a split sleeve that takes up the space between the drop and the chainstay or fill the cavity with small pieces of larger welding rod. This way the join will be stronger and you can use very little silver.

I like TIG welding on hooded style dropouts but nothing really assaults my personal aesthetic sensibilities more than a TIG welded plate style dropout. ewww...


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## jocko (Apr 29, 2005)

Dave - what are your thoughts on silver brazing hooded droupouts? I've heard from a few that brazing isn't as good with hooded as it has a lower shear strength, even more so with silver?



dbohemian said:


> Nickel silver or german silver is a nickel/copper based rod. There is no silver. The Nickel helps to wet out stainless and can work fine. I find the stuff a bit hard to work with and requires a ton of heat but it does work.
> 
> If you want to reduce your silver load when brazing on drop-outs create a split sleeve that takes up the space between the drop and the chainstay or fill the cavity with small pieces of larger welding rod. This way the join will be stronger and you can use very little silver.
> 
> I like TIG welding on hooded style dropouts but nothing really assaults my personal aesthetic sensibilities more than a TIG welded plate style dropout. ewww...


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## shandcycles (Jan 15, 2008)

dbohemian said:


> If you want to reduce your silver load when brazing on drop-outs create a split sleeve that takes up the space between the drop and the chainstay or fill the cavity with small pieces of larger welding rod. This way the join will be stronger and you can use very little silver.


I turn a plug and brass braze it in place, slot the stay and silver braze the dropout. Loads of surface area and you're not pushing $$$ of silver in there.


shandcycles


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

jocko said:


> Dave - what are your thoughts on silver brazing hooded droupouts? I've heard from a few that brazing isn't as good with hooded as it has a lower shear strength, even more so with silver?


I wouldn't recommend silver brazing hooded dropouts. Oh, it might work but you are right, Fillets like this rely on large root depth fillets and just seems like a waste of silver. My suggestion would be to bronze fillet braze paragon hoods (I have done that with success) or tig weld the hood on and if you are looking for a smooth look you could then put a small cosmetic silver fillet over the top of the tig weld. This would not use too much silver and look great.

Really like the plug that Shand Cycles did. That is what I was speaking of to cut down on silver usage when you want to join a stainless tab dropout in the traditional manner.


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## Winter Bicycles (Jun 8, 2008)

Sorry- no pre paint photo, but this one is silver on the CS and nickle on the SS.


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## 18bikes (Jan 15, 2007)

Just a note for future reference, whoever mentioned the 2souls dropout as non-stainless is incorrect

Hth
Matt


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

I have no idea why, but Trek used nickel silver instead of bronze when I worked there in the '70s. I find it just a little harder to use than bronze. I'm not absolutely sure I would notice if you handed me a rod of nickel silver to use if I had my brazing glasses on. It's not outrageously difficult to use, but a little practice would be in order.


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## cataño (Sep 7, 2009)

Another option for stainless dropouts is Cycle Design's Fillet Pro rod. It's quite spendy, but if you're only using it for the dropouts it may not be a terrible investment to have some around.


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## Clockwork Bikes (Jun 17, 2006)

Found a pic of the IRD: IRD Slider Dropouts | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## fanzy4 (Aug 19, 2004)

18bikes said:


> Just a note for future reference, whoever mentioned the 2souls dropout as non-stainless is incorrect
> 
> Hth
> Matt


Humm.... Couldn't find an unpainted pic, but for me this is looking very much like a brass fillet:

V062 014 blog par vagabondecycles, sur Flickr


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## 18bikes (Jan 15, 2007)

We have a few sets in the workshop and I've spoken in person to the designer, they are stainless

Matt


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## jgerhardt (Aug 31, 2009)

fanzy4 said:


> Humm.... Couldn't find an unpainted pic, but for me this is looking very much like a brass fillet:
> 
> V062 014 blog par vagabondecycles, sur Flickr


Those could easily have been done with a nickle rod.


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

18bikes said:


> We have a few sets in the workshop and I've spoken in person to the designer, they are stainless
> 
> Matt


Somebody should mention that to 2souls. Their website indicates that they are steel, and then they specifically say the hardware is stainless steel.

EVO2 Slider Dropouts


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## 18bikes (Jan 15, 2007)

I will mention it to them when I get in touch with them. I'd forgotten they were developing a 142/syntace dropout and it looks like they've made it to production. I hadn't seen their new site so it must have been a while since I last checked

Matt


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## fanzy4 (Aug 19, 2004)

Thanks Matt for the clarification.
I never used them, but I was really convinced that my colleagues at Vagabonde and JRD hadn't used anything special to braze them...


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## Campbell (Nov 13, 2011)

Love the clean work.


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