# Clutch Broken on XT Shadow Plus



## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

First off let me state I LOVE MY SHADOW plus!
It is awesome, it combined with my chain guide removes all chain slap. Not a single noise escapes the combo.

But, yesterday while riding I noticed some chain noise from the rear and stopped to make sure the clutch was engaged. It was so I figured I was just riding extra badazz that day (ya right).

Today I was checking over the bike making sure everything is tip-top for a trip to Santos tomorrow. I checked the tension on the der and found that engaged or disengaged the tension was the same. So I figured I should adjust the clutch in the der and which should stop the chain noise.

I opened up the der to find that the tension adjusting clamp for the clutch band broke on the backside at the bend and wasn't providing any tension on the clutch band. I can only assume this will be warrantied and if it isn't then I can only assume this little part is really cheap.

I also apparently have the new version that does not have the adjusting wrench included inside of the casing. You are supposed to use needle nose pliers to adjust the tension nut.

The der works perfect other than the clutch doesn't work at all so I'm going to use it tomorrow and have it warrantied on Monday. I just wanted to give everyone a heads up and show the pics.








How it appeared when I opened it up








The broken piece








It is really broken, that is the clutch cam it surrounds on the left and on the right is the tension adjusting nut








How it is supposed to look on the clutch cam


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## parkp81 (Oct 29, 2005)

Time to call Shimano. They will take care of you, they have good customer care, just explain to them the situation and they will probably just send you out a new one.

Seems like a few of these have been breaking lately in the same spot. Also appears to be with the XT versions. I purchased an XTR version when the clutch mechanism was first released by Shimano back in 2011, and so far mine has not given me any issues.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

Good if its a known issue they will fix it fast then!


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

I just got the same unit -- thanks for the heads-up!



> I also apparently have the new version that does not have the adjusting wrench included inside of the casing. You are supposed to use needle nose pliers to adjust the tension nut.


My high-school auto teacher would be having a hissy-fit about now 

A 5.5mm ignition wrench fits perfectly. I got a "midget Craftsman wrench set" off ebay for about $12 delivered -- the other wrenches in the kit could be useful for other small work.

A 7/32" wrench is pretty close.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

I was going to use a 7/32 wrench I hate pliers as well!


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Same thing happened on my SLX, they warrantied in less than a week. 

Now I've got an even weireder issue where it feels like the clutch is notchy, and engaged even when I set it to "off." 

It's awesome how you can deal with them directly and their warranty is awesome, but I think there is still some engineering to be done with the Shadow+. I'll just keep sending em back, as a new derailleur every ~3 months is not a bad deal.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

half_man_half_scab said:


> Now I've got an even weirder issue where it feels like the clutch is notchy, and engaged even when I set it to "off."


I would check for dirt inside of the roller clutch which is the saw blade shaped part that the tension band surrounds.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

I cleaned it with a q-tip, but was afraid to hit it with isopropyl for fear of messing it up. Shimano said clearly in their service instructions that you are not supposed to lubricate it either.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

thats sucks, but shimano will def take care of you fast. bummer that its was broke for your ride. if you know a welder he could through a couple tacks on that in 5 seconds. you'll probably get a whole new RD, my dust cover fell off my zee shifter and i inquired about buying a new one and 2 days later i had a new shifter in the mailbox. CS is awesome.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Just had my second XT Shadow+ break yesterday. My LBS and Shimano took care of the last one quickly and I expect no different when I take this one in.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

Fishwrinkle-- I am a fairly decent welder but the metal is so thin it would have to be such low heat that the weld wouldn't be much better than chewing gum
And the weld would add a lot bulk that there isn't room for

The lbs already 2 dayed the der it should be back by Saturday or Monday


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

yeah i was thinking of an in a pinch solution. i fab with sheet metal all day, that looks like about 16ga, thats on the thick end of what i work with. 17.6V 190 ipm would get you nice flat tacks. i knew you'd have a new RD quickly.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

Ha okay I use a big blue 700 the thinnest stuff I'll weld is 1/8th inch. Im pretty sure my welder isn't capable of turning down that low.


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## canuck_tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Just noticed my XT Shadow Plus clutch is not working....Only had it for a couple of months.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

The clutch plate is what, a 3 cent part? Shimano should just call it a wear item, and stock shops with them until they can figure out a more robust design. It'd be a sh1tload cheaper than sending everybody new derailleurs every time.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

^^^ yep it would be and unless your shop is a "shimano authorized dealer" they can't just call them up and say " hey this is broken I need a new one" they have to return the part to shimano and let them decide.


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## canuck_tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Took it apart and sure enough it's that piece with the adjuster on it.

So they won't send me a new piece? It's really easy to replace.


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## gumby. (Mar 11, 2013)

half_man_half_scab said:


> Shimano said clearly in their service instructions that you are not supposed to lubricate it either.


That's weird, they show a tube of grease with a part # in the exploded view.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

canuck_tacoma said:


> Took it apart and sure enough it's that piece with the adjuster on it.
> 
> So they won't send me a new piece? It's really easy to replace.


Call them and try 
It didn't help me my lbs had to send it off


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

thats weird, the xt's are having most of the problems b/c i've been running a zee for several months w/ no probs. i would assume that it is the same part from the trickle down, no?


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## canuck_tacoma (May 1, 2011)

fishwrinkle said:


> thats weird, the xt's are having most of the problems b/c i've been running a zee for several months w/ no probs. i would assume that it is the same part from the trickle down, no?


Could be the abuse it's taking? I have a feeling that piece is a "break away part" made to fail before major damage occurs on terrain that exceeds its ability.

I bet those of us who break them will keep breaking them.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

oh i see, it could be


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

canuck_tacoma said:


> I bet those of us who break them will keep breaking them.


I would think this is right and I'm fine with it as long as Shimano let's me buy them a dozen at a time to replace them


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Mine is broken again. Third one. 

Shimano should just sell that little bracket that keeps breaking. I'd keep a couple on hand. Then I wouldn't have take off my derailleur. Take it to the LBS. Wait for Shimano to warranty it. Repeat.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Or just engineer it so it doesn't break -- better metal or a little more of it. It isn't a wear item, and should last as long as the rest of the derailleur. This is a design flaw.


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## jdinsj (Jan 10, 2008)

Been having a similar problem with my XT. Noticed some chain noise. When shifting down into smaller cogs, enough movement to slack the chain as if it's "OFF". Shift back up to a larger cog and it's rock solid. Had the cover off to inspect and adjust tension and noticed the part mentioned in above posts looks slightly deformed. 

Got a race this weekend, so I'll be heading to the LBS for them to contact Shimano.

Has anyone had this problem with the XTR or SLX? Maybe I'll upgrade to XTR.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

jdinsj said:


> Has anyone had this problem with the XTR or SLX? Maybe I'll upgrade to XTR.


Two of my hardest riding friends have over a year on their XTR ones with no problems. I'm going to get an XTR one this weekend and keep the XT as my backup.


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## gumby. (Mar 11, 2013)

I wonder what's breaking them, downshifts with it on just feel wrong and chain growth on some bikes must give them hell.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

I wonder if the guys breaking them are running full-suspension? It continues to run flawlessly on my hardtail after 400 mi.

If that bracket is flexing slightly and getting weakened as a result, it will happen a lot sooner on a FS, but eventually will break in any case.


> Two of my hardest riding friends have over a year on their XTR ones with no problems. I'm going to get an XTR one this weekend and keep the XT as my backup.


The XTR doesn't even seem to have the part that is breaking.

XT, part#8
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t.../RD/EV-RD-M786-3321_v1_m56577569830801190.pdf

XTR
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t.../RD/EV-RD-M986-3430_v1_m56577569830801193.pdf
From this diagram I can't figure out how the XTR works.

Anyway, hopefully mine will last a while. I have an XTR FD, but don't want to spend the $$$ for an XTR RD being how exposed RDs are. I have broken one already -- fortunately just the SLX that came on my bike.


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## canuck_tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I probably won't bother with mine...pretty sure it will just break again.


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## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

DennisF said:


> I wonder if the guys breaking them are running full-suspension? It continues to run flawlessly on my hardtail after 400 mi.
> 
> If that bracket is flexing slightly and getting weakened as a result, it will happen a lot sooner on a FS, but eventually will break in any case.
> 
> ...


So, part #8 is the piece that is breaking? From the description, I was thinking part #7.

Going to keep an eye on my XT plus derailleurs. Added a touch more tension to one of 'em -- might go back and dial that off.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

ncfisherman said:


> So, part #8 is the piece that is breaking? From the description, I was thinking part #7.
> 
> Going to keep an eye on my XT plus derailleurs. Added a touch more tension to one of 'em -- might go back and dial that off.


On the XT its part #8 that is breaking #7 is the clutch band


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

The xtr diagram is the old version. That version is the one that includes the tool to adjust the clutch and the tool is part of the assembly


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## docter_zab (Jun 3, 2013)

dang it. mine stopped working and I was just looking into how to adjust it. I'm opening it up this evening, and really hope that this piece isn't broken, but my guess is it will be. sheee-it.


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## scarver233 (May 25, 2010)

The cam unit (#8) in my XT RD also broke at the bend. I got poor service at my LBS. Any hope Shimano will just sell the cam unit so users can replace them? Seems like this is going to be an ongoing issue.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

I got my new XTR the other day. Opened the clutch cover just to see if it was the same as the XT. It is definitely different, but I didn't get too deep to see if it had the same bracket. It didn't seem like it. 

I hope I have better luck with the XTR. Considering how much I spent on the damn thing, it better not break too.


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## Josh_SL2 (Mar 30, 2012)

The XTR model doesn't use a metal clip to support the actuator (the piece that presses against the friction band when you set the lever to 'on'). It sort of looks like it in some pictures but I think that's just the wrench for adjusting tension. From the pictures I've seen of the internals, it looks like it might be part of the housing or something. It looks a lot stronger, whatever it is.

So yeah, mine broke today after just over 400 miles, and yes I'm on full suspension.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

My clutch broke on my XT Shadow Plus after about 8 months of light riding. I dropped it by the bike shop yesterday. We'll see if Shimano warranties the part. I ride a hard tail.


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## jcolby (Dec 11, 2011)

+1 more for the broken clutch, about 3 months. I may have been running my chain a little tight. Shimano replaced it no problem. I replaced my chin and ran 2 extra links it seems to be running fine now.


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

I can't remember were I read it, but the XT+ on a FS bike needs 5 extra links for chain growth and to keep the FS chain stretching from stressing the RD. Which makes no sense? There is video of the clutch system on an FS bike that has the 5 extra links and the Plus system can barely tension the chain, as it was designed to do, when in front middle ring and the suspension is in its resting position.

It's my understanding that the clutch system is not to reliable for FS bikes. In the long run it's cheaper to get a non-Plus RD and get some type of chain tensioner, whether it be an ISGC mount or a C.Guide.

My XC bike will have a clutch when I get the rest of the grouppo; my AMTB will have a simple, inexpensive, 9spd-10spd RD with some type of chain tensioner. The Shred I'm getting will not come with an ISGC mount, So I'm going to have one fitted and welded to the BB shell.


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## frank daleview (Jan 23, 2004)

pdxmark said:


> It's my understanding that the clutch system is not to reliable for FS bikes. In the long run it's cheaper to get a non-Plus RD and get some type of chain tensioner, whether it be an ISGC mount or a C.Guide.


Really?! Than why does Shimano offer Saint and Zee components with a clutch? Also, the trail version of XTR is the on that has a clutch.


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## sohnice (Sep 5, 2010)

Broke my XTR m985 recently while doing some maintenance & I'm lazy to send it back.
This is my quick fix using steel wire, hope it holds.
In the mean time still waiting for my new frame replacement. 
Will test it and see how long it will last with my own quick fix.


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

iceaxe said:


> Really?! Than why does Shimano offer Saint and Zee components with a clutch?


Because they have the tooling capability to make them, and people will buy them.

I'm not saying that Clutch technology does not work on FS bikes, I'm just sharing an observation that clutch technology does not seem to work as well on a bunch of FS bikes compared to HT bikes. It also has to do with the rear end of a FS and how much chain stretch the rear triangle causes. The longer the arc on the upstroke, the longer the chain is stretched. There are FS frames out there with a longer arc in the rear travel and if your clutch and chain is not dialed properly for the stretching you will cause damage to your clutch mech.

I know three people that have broke one or more clutch mechs this last season(in different ways) on their FS bikes. All of them have decided to use an ISGC mount with a chain tensioner to alleviate the cost of buying another clutch mech. I think they were smart in doing so, knowing that smaller parts break before beefier, thicker, stronger made parts break.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Shimano did me right and I now have a new XT Shadow Plus rear derailleur. I sure hope the clutch lasts longer than 9 months this time.


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## arclarke (Jun 9, 2013)

My SLX+ clutch broke after 6 months moderate use on hardtail. Just about to send back for warranty, but meanwhile decided to pay up for XTR as don't see an SLX or XT replacement lasting any longer.
The XTR M986 has a very solid looking machined stainless steel part in place of the pressed clip on the lesser mechs (it still has the little spanner, but I think the first XTR+ relied on the base casting to hold the nut in place). 
I would have gone for Zee having realised the SLX cage is longer than necc for 1x10, so have fitted saint cage plates to get a short cage XTR safer from sticks and stones - hoping it will last for ever like this, given the price!


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## mdemm (Aug 4, 2010)

Been running on an XT-786 Shadow+RD... It's been an excellent RD. Noticed a week or so ago that I was getting some chain slap. Didn't pay much notice, until I read this thread... Went and pulled the clutch cover and out fell the little metal / plastic band... Called Shimano the following day. Said the quickest way to get a replacement RD was to go through a local BS. Which is what I did. Asked the Shimano rep. if the issue was corrected in the new derailleurs. Said they were aware of the problem and yes, the problem was dealt with. New one is one it's way. Shimano is an excellent company to deal with !!!!


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

I bought one of these last month. I hope it is the updated one!
However it has not broken yet, and l have been out on the bike dozens of times with it fitted.

I did take the cover off today to have a look, and all seemed fine, but there was no visible grease on the clutch, like tgere is in the picture above.

Should l grease the internal parts?


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

Anybody know the answer to this?


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## arclarke (Jun 9, 2013)

see techdoc: http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...SI-0120A-003-00-Eng_v1_m56577569830789046.pdf
a little grease may be needed under the friction spring, but not inside the clutch mechanism


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

Thanks for the info, that picture above shows the whole mechanism covered in grease!


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/shadow-plus-rd-lubing-883186.html


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## Makoto (Sep 10, 2007)

Over the past month I've been noticing chain slap while descending. I finally popped the cover on my clutch and found my cam was broken just like the OP. Thanks to posts like this it was easy to diagnose (Thank you!). I contacted the vendor I purchased it from and Shimano. The Shimano tech advised that I take it to my local Shimano Service Center (SSC) shop for them to help process the warranty claim. The tech was very familiar with this particular failure and stated the replacement derailleur has addressed this problem. My derailleur has been left w/ my local SSC shop and now I'm waiting to hear back from them after they contact Shimano. The Shimano tech mentioned a fast 3 day turnaround, but perhaps that's because I live in So Cal. I'll try to post back to give the finality of this issue.


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## bigb73 (Oct 11, 2007)

Almost a year on my XTR shadow plus and zero issues. I have a Santa Cruz Nomad so I dont think having a full suspension has anything to do with the clutch failing. One question, how often does everyone flip the clutch on and off? I ride mine in the on position all the time. I flip the lever if I need to take the wheel off.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Mine's on all the time. I turn it off for wheel or chain replacement if I remember.


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## Makoto (Sep 10, 2007)

Follow Up:

Shimano replaced my rear derailleur within about four days. It's unfortunate that they had to replace an entire derailleur for a failed cam, but I appreciate their support of their product. I just hope the weak cam has been fixed on this new derailleur!


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Hmmm . . . . I'm in the "failed clutch" camp now as well, after not that long of ownership. Dropped it off at the LBS on Sunday, and yet no word back yet. I bet its the shop dragging its feet . . . . time for a phone call. I don't wanna keep waiting on a rear mech.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

I have kept my old rear mech, which is a regular XT. So if my Shadow plus clutch fails and l have to return it, l can put my old one back on the bike and keep riding while l wait for a repair/replacement.


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## arclarke (Jun 9, 2013)

Mine took best part of 2 weeks to sort by Chain Reaction Cycles - but I bought replacement out of own pocket to stay on the road (had no other 10spd mech) and received credit vouchers instead of replacement mech - OK if you know you're going to need to buy something else sooner or later.


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## Makoto (Sep 10, 2007)

007 said:


> Hmmm . . . . I'm in the "failed clutch" camp now as well, after not that long of ownership. Dropped it off at the LBS on Sunday, and yet no word back yet. I bet its the shop dragging its feet . . . . time for a phone call. I don't wanna keep waiting on a rear mech.


Probably too late, but if you have proof of purchase, the fastest way to get your issue remedied is to take your broken derailleur to your local Shimano Service Center (you can figure this out via the Shimano website). Even though you did not buy it there, they can handle your warranty claim in an expedited fashion. Good luck!!!!


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

I called the shop today. They're just waiting on the replacement to arrive. Already been RMA'd, etc. . . . .they just planned on calling me when the new one came in. I probably would have preferred better communication, but whatever . . . at least they weren't sitting around on it.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

my SLX shadow plus on my FS Mojo stopped functioning after about one year.
Clutch ON = Clutch OFF.
No Shimano service centre on my island, 1900 kilometres away.
That's the down side of living in bikers paradise.

Just had an answer from the Shimano Service Center where I bought the derailleur:
"Sorry the item is not in stock".

No mentioning of if or when it will (or will not) be.

Shimano service in Spain sucks.

:madmax:


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

jdinsj said:


> Been having a similar problem with my XT. Noticed some chain noise. When shifting down into smaller cogs, enough movement to slack the chain as if it's "OFF". Shift back up to a larger cog and it's rock solid. Had the cover off to inspect and adjust tension and noticed the part mentioned in above posts looks slightly deformed.
> 
> Got a race this weekend, so I'll be heading to the LBS for them to contact Shimano.
> 
> Has anyone had this problem with the XTR or SLX? Maybe I'll upgrade to XTR.


Yep! My SLX 675 Shadow Plus has the Y5Y198120 (Shimano spare part number) "Cam unit" broken. Same as in XT. Bought a XTR 986 and it has a completely different system.
Shimano here is not as friendly where I live as some of you have experienced.
The Cam unit is not strong enough to handle the power of the spring that stops the chain jumping. I aggree with DennisF that this part is a design flaw. On pictures I have seen on the web they all break on the same side and on mine it is easy to see that this side is bended harder than the other side.
If Shimano does not warranty it and does not want to sell the spare part the dérailleur can always be used as a rear shifter on a bike that is not going off-road.


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## BacDoc (May 31, 2011)

Another one bites the dust! Noticed some chain slap after last ride and popped off the cover and found the busted cam mentioned in all these posts. Called Shimano and they said it would be taken care of via LBS.

Thing is the shifting was still perfect and I wonder how many of these RD's are still being ridden with riders not aware of the issue. Shimano tech I spoke with did not indicate if this part was re-engineered so what's the odds of part failing again? My RD has seen only a couple of months of use and I have never broken drive train components so I am suspect of this XT design. Like the clutch when it's working, maybe bite the bullet and upgrade to XTR .

For those who have had the fix, how is it working out?


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

1200 miles and no issues with the replacement. It works perfect


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## mdemm (Aug 4, 2010)

I've been riding / using my broken XT for the past month or so. The XT was given to me as a gift (4/13), so I am unable to come up with proof of purchase. I called and spoke with Shimano explaining my dilemma. They told me there is nothing they would do without a receipt. I called and spoke with my friend (the one who bought it) and asked if he could find the receipt or copy of same. Said he looked and could not find it. With that said I called Shimano back to see what could be done. Again, I was told nothing. And that my only option was to fill out a consumer claim form and send the RD in for them to review the claim. I was told that this process usually takes 4-5 days... Which in turn puts my bike out of commission for a good week plus... Needless to say. I am very dissatisfied with Shimano's lack of handling my situation.. Even the guy who works for Shimano said its known issue. Thats why there new Shadow Plus RD's have a different clutch design... So until I decide to be without my bike (thanks Shimano). I'll continue to ride with the broken clutch on my bike.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

Not unusual these days, nobody seems to care.
I guess Shimano will know they won't lose any business worth bothering about, so why do anything?
Is there any way to know whether my XT Shadow + bought in October 2013 is the improved version?


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

I'm starting to wonder if the reason many are breaking is related to lubrication? I have 2 SLX M675 Shadow Plus , 1 from Feb , 1 from April, and then I just bought a Deore M615. I am hopeful any changes got into the latest Deore since they have only been out a very short time and have just showed up on a few sites for sale. They all use the same Shadow Plus clutch based on the Shimano Techdocs. After reading this thread, I lubed my SLX models this morning, one had a decent amount of grease, the other not so much and was kind of notchy feeling. I used Buzzy's sweet honey, and now they all feel the same, smooth yet taught with the clutch on. I guess time will tell.


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## SiO2 (Jul 4, 2007)

I switched to the shadow plus in August and have broken three in four months. They last an average of 25 hours of riding time before the clutch breaks. I used to love shimano but they now rate far below Sram in my book. No 11 speed option and worthless a clutch derailleur for 2x10. At least they make a decent brake. 

Btw. I've been purchasing a new derailleur from jensonusa and then send the broken one back for a refund. That way I have no downtime and I don't have to deal with shimano warranty. I'm about to do this for a fourth time but it's getting really old. I don't have the money to switch to an xx1 system. Should have kept my 2x9.


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## BacDoc (May 31, 2011)

Update - Shimano is apparently not replacing derailleurs anymore, just the broken cam and telling the LBS to charge for labor. Luckily my LBS is cool and just giving me the new cam to install myself. No biggie for me as its just 3 screws and pop it in but for a lot who don't work on gear they get screwed with a labor charge. Shimano doesn't want the LBS to just give the customer the part without install.

Think Shimano stepped in **** and drug it all over the house on this one!


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## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

Funny timing coincidence with post directly above. Don't know if I was able to get this only because Shimano just changed their policy or if this has been generally available.

When my clutch broke (that cam unit piece) last week, I just ordered a replacement piece from my LBS rather than dealing with a warranty on it. I couldn't get just that piece by itself - it came with the clutch/stabilizer unit and was billed as "stabilizer unit".

Here's a pic with the shimano label and part number. LBS charged me $13 USD. A high price for a little piece of metal. But easier and faster than dealing with a warranty claim. Installed so, so easy in about 3 minutes.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

^^^ I will gladly pay $13 rather than not ride for a week
Might order a spare here soon


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## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

WarBoom said:


> ^^^ I will gladly pay $13 rather than not ride for a week


Yeah, exactly. Was a no-brainer for me.


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## BacDoc (May 31, 2011)

addATX said:


> Funny timing coincidence with post directly above. Don't know if I was able to get this only because Shimano just changed their policy or if this has been generally available.
> 
> When my clutch broke (that cam unit piece) last week, I just ordered a replacement piece from my LBS rather than dealing with a warranty on it. I couldn't get just that piece by itself - it came with the clutch/stabilizer unit and was billed as "stabilizer unit".
> 
> ...


Looks like the cam in the XTR RD!


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

The rep thingy is broken, so I just want to say "Thanks AddATX -- I am filing this away in case mine breaks."

I probably won't order a spare to keep on hand. If it breaks I´ll just live without that feature for a few days. No biggie.

I have over 900 miles on mine BTW.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

In the UK at least, if an item is faulty (usually within 12 months from date of purchase) then the supplier has a legal responsibility to repair or replace it.

If Shimano won't do anything then that is not the customer's problem. Their contract is with the supplying dealer/LBS etc.

A bit like if you buy a new TV and it fails after a month, you would not expect to have to fit the new part yourself, or pay the shop you bought the TV from to fit it.

The law states an item has to be "fit for purpose" and last a "reasonable time".

This is not always good for the LBS, who then by the sound of it cannot recover the money from Shimano, but that is the law in the UK.

However, having said all that, if I can repair it myself for £10 I would not be looking to recover that from the LBS that I bought it from.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

My son bent a cog on the Deore cassette on his new bike in the first 50 miles. The Trek dealer wouldn't cover it because Trek wouldn't cover it, and normally he is pretty good about any problems you have with stuff you buy from him. The thing probably wasn't defective. I gave him mine that had 1800 miles on it and got myself an XT, and he broke that too. He is a big guy and likes to power up hills in high gears. 

Here in the US, some states have "implied warranty of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose" laws. I don't know if it is the duty of the retailer or supplier to honor this however. I have never heard of an individual consumer using this as an argument to get warranty coverage. With social media and all, stores are generally pretty good about replacing stuff.

No doubt implied warranty is a factor in these class-action lawsuits against makers of defective plastic pipes that get eaten by chlorine and that sort of thing.


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## snala (Dec 2, 2012)

I got one off an English internet site shipped to NZ in August. Was very good until it broke at the end of November, exactly the same as all the posts here, after about 350 kms of riding, on a carbon hardtail. I don't genuinely think this is a usage fail but a manufacturing/design fault. Something shouldn't fail after this amount of time under general use and I'm really surprised Shimano hasn't addressed the problem based on their usual product excellence and reputation. It just needs to be made out of heavier material, not rocket science! 
The internet store I sent it back too is sending me a replacement at no cost so will see how this one lasts. Based on the manufacturers 12 month warranty as applied I guess I'll be able to keep doing this until the XT M786 is no longer available and then get a refund and buy something else if it keeps on happening?
The real question will be, what is going to happen when they all start failing on the 2014 O.E bikes as pretty much the XT + version is the standard derailleur on most middle to upper level bikes sold over here, Giant, Specialized, Merida, both HT and DS so there are going to be a lot of unhappy people if this hasn't been addressed.

Just really hope my new one is and those replacement cam tensioners you guys are getting are redesigned strengthened versions. Such an easy thing to fix so you'd seriously hope so.


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## jcolby (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm getting about 30 hrs out of my shadow plus. Noticed a couple of chain drops on my last ride, just took a look and guess what? Broken, again.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Add me to the list...
SLX M675 in my case, but failed in exactly same place as the others above. 
For the record, bought it in April 2013 and had done 531 kms before it broke.









I live in Australia and bought it from CRC in the UK.
Have sent them an email with picture and will see what response I get.


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## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

*okay so far...*

I have a 2014 bike with XT Shadow Plus...only 200 miles and all appears good. Just for grins, I popped off the cover to take a look see. Nothing broke and just a very small amount of green grease in the clutch...gave it a kiss and put it back together.

Just a side note regarding warranty issues. Generally speaking, the manufacturer's liability exposure is for a predetermined amount of time from date of original *purchase*. The key word is *purchase*...assuming a 12 month warranty, and you had a failure after 6 months, then all is good...for another 6 months. Your warranty clock does not reset for another 12 months. There could be exceptions if the manufacturer understands that the failures are due to a design or manufacturing defect. Just an observation cause after 20 years managing a Caterpillar dealer service department, I found it was a common misconception.

I'd be interested what date Shimano made the engineering or design change or if they even acknowledge it :idea:


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

It does seem like the problem is still not sorted with these, as people are having second and third failures with new units.

The clutch system is superb when it works, so it would be better not to lose the facility.

What about fitting the SRAM clutch rear mech instead? I have not heard of any failures with those.
Will it work with Shimano shifters and cassette?


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## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

lotusdriver said:


> It does seem like the problem is still not sorted with these, as people are having second and third failures with new units.
> 
> The clutch system is superb when it works, so it would be better not to lose the facility.
> 
> ...


 I believe there is a compatibility issue with shifters...shifter cable ratios are different...can't imagine cassette would care, but we don't have a cassette issue anyway. I certainly hope this is not as terminal as it appears at face value. At least it doesn't stop the wheels, it just breaks and transforms into a XT minus the shadow plus. The worst that can happen is a dropped chain. I am just going to order a clutch for the puppy-poop $$.

I am also going to ask my LBS to make some calls and find what they can find that hasn't already been discovered here.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

> I live in Australia and bought it from CRC in the UK.
> Have sent them an email with picture and will see what response I get.


Well, just got a reply and they're sending me a replacement mech and no need to send the original back.

Great customer service Chain Reaction!

Now we'll see if Shimano has strengthened that piece on the new stock...


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## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

lotusdriver said:


> What about fitting the SRAM clutch rear mech instead? I have not heard of any failures with those.
> Will it work with Shimano shifters and cassette?


You can't mix SRAM/Shimano rear mechs/shifters. The Shimano cassette would work fine though.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

*An idea why they are breaking*

I was pondering why they would all be breaking at that one place -- the other corner of the bracket is of the same design and it isn't breaking. I first thought that if the outer eye slipped off the cam and had no support, it would flex at the place where they are all breaking. However, looking at the OPs photo, that doesn't appear to be the case.

However, if you operate the mechanism with the cover off, the thing is quite flexy, because there is nothing to support the outer end of the cam.

The outer cover has a ridge of plastic that the bracket fits perfectly into and holds it in place -- on mine anyway. If those ridges broke or if an older version of the shell did not have a good way to hold the bracket, this could explain the breakage. It doesn't look to me like there would be any way to improperly assemble the outer shell.

Could ya'll compare your outer shell to mine next time you are in there and see if it is of a different design? Or if the outer shell looks damaged? A crack that would not be visible with casual observation could be the cause.

Over 1000 miles on mine now BTW.

Thanks


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

lotusdriver said:


> What about fitting the SRAM clutch rear mech instead? I have not heard of any failures with those.


There's been a few - http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/sram-type-2-derailleur-issues-811526-4.html and http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/x-9-type-2-derailleur-problems-807541-6.html.

Both companies seem to have a few issues with the overall reliability with the clutch mechs. Although, in saying that, so far I've had my XT clutch for about 6 months now with no issues, so I guess I've been lucky so far.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

> Could ya'll compare your outer shell to mine next time you are in there and see if it is of a different design? Or if the outer shell looks damaged? A crack that would not be visible with casual observation could be the cause.


My casing is the same as yours and has the recess for the cam, and isn't damaged in any way, yet my cam mechanism broke. To be honest, I think this recess in the casing is more to make sure the cam plate goes back in the right position when reassembling, rather than having any support function during operation, as those puny soft plastic ridges aren't going to add any strength to a metal cam mechanism.

By the way, anyone know if the XTR cam can be fitted to the XT/SLX mech, as it seems to be a better/stronger design?


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Mine is broken like all the others even though I have a SLX and not a XT.
The reason they all break in the same place is that they all have the same part bended the same way and that the inner corner has the sharpest bend, so the metal is weaker there.
With all the identical problems it must be called a design flaw, and I am quite sure that Shimano will get the metal piece made on a different machine for their next generation, as it should be no problem making a piece that can hold the spring in the clutch.
Weather Shimano will admit they have made an error or not is another question.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

I bought a XTR as my SLX did not last long. The XTR seems to be holding just fine, but I am not going to open that before it break, which I hope it does not, so I cannot answer your question if the parts from the XTR will fit in the SLX/XT.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

PerthMTB said:


> My casing is the same as yours and has the recess for the cam, and isn't damaged in any way, yet my cam mechanism broke. To be honest, I think this recess in the casing is more to make sure the cam plate goes back in the right position when reassembling, rather than having any support function during operation, as those puny soft plastic ridges aren't going to add any strength to a metal cam mechanism.


Thanks for checking.

No, it isn't going to strengthen the metal part, but I contend that it does hold it in place. Try operating the on/off lever with the cover off then on. It feels different.

Oh well, an idea.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

How about reducing the clutch tension?

I reduced mine so the lever is loose until it gets to the edge of the Shimano symbol.

The unit still works fine (no chain slap at all) and my clutch has not broken after a Summer's use.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

lotusdriver said:


> How about reducing the clutch tension?
> 
> I reduced mine so the lever is loose until it gets to the edge of the Shimano symbol.
> 
> The unit still works fine (no chain slap at all) and my clutch has not broken after a Summer's use.


Interesting thought that might possibly work. Reducing the tension to minimize chain slap (not eliminate), but still have some function might work, but I'm not sure it will eliminate failure.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Great idea. No, it won't eliminate failure -- nothing lasts forever. But it should delay it a lot . As a thought experiment, suppose you loosened it so that it had no tension -- then it would last practically forever.

Mine doesn't totally eliminate chain slap BTW. More like 90% of it.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

> How about reducing the clutch tension?


I think you're onto something there. Shimano suggest a clutch torque of between 3.5 - 5.4 nm for the XT/SLX/Deore clutches. But they suggest a lower torque of between 3.1 - 4.1 for the Zee/Saint clutch. Its exactly the same clutch in the SLX/XT/Saint/Zee - same part number. All other things being equal you'd expect them to spec a higher clutch torque on the downhill groups as they are subject to greater chainslap forces, but instead they are recommending lower. Could this be to avoid breakage?

However, its not a very satisfactory solution, as I already had my SLX set at 4nm which is at the lower range of the spec, and it still broke. In fact the only 'real' solution is for them to make a stronger part, which hopefully they now have, although nobody official seems to be able to confirm that.


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## Warshade (Jun 19, 2006)

PerthMTB said:


> I think you're onto something there. Shimano suggest a clutch torque of between 3.5 - 5.4 nm for the XT/SLX/Deore clutches. But they suggest a lower torque of between 3.1 - 4.1 for the Zee/Saint clutch. Its exactly the same clutch in the SLX/XT/Saint/Zee - same part number. All other things being equal you'd expect them to spec a higher clutch torque on the downhill groups as they are subject to greater chainslap forces, but instead they are recommending lower. Could this be to avoid breakage?
> 
> However, its not a very satisfactory solution, as I already had my SLX set at 4nm which is at the lower range of the spec, and it still broke. In fact the only 'real' solution is for them to make a stronger part, which hopefully they now have, although nobody official seems to be able to confirm that.


It may be that way because the Zee (for example) uses a short cage, thus needing less effort to reduce chain slap forces.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Warshade said:


> It may be that way because the Zee (for example) uses a short cage, thus needing less effort to reduce chain slap forces.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


That's the most plausible explanation I've heard yet. However, if that is in fact the logic, then there should be different torque specs for different cage lengths. Longer cage lengths would have a longer arm and thus more leverage. More leverage, more torque...less length, less torque. Perhaps the logic is there and it's simply not documented or considered by Shimano. Good tribal knowledge. Thanks Warshade.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

OK, what exactly are we torqueing? The adjustment screw or force required to move the cage?

Tnx


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

DennisF said:


> OK, what exactly are we torqueing? The adjustment screw or force required to move the cage?
> 
> Tnx


We are referring to the torque applied to the clutch adjuster/tensioner bolt.

PerthMTB referenced that "Shimano suggest a clutch torque of between 3.5 - 5.4 nm for the XT/SLX/Deore clutches. But they suggest a lower torque of between 3.1 - 4.1 for the Zee/Saint clutch."


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

Will that stabilizer unit work for the xtr rd. looks a little different as I can remove my little tool to adjust my clutch. I don't even need the clutch adjust piece I need the thing with the bearing. Mine keeps on popping out creating a lot of free play.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

> OK, what exactly are we torqueing? The adjustment screw or force required to move the cage?


We're talking about the force needed to move the cage against the resistive action of the clutch - NOT the adjusting screw itself. To measure it you insert a torque wrench into the 4mm hex key recess in the centre of the clutch drum, and turn anti-clockwise with the clutch switch on. This will give you your clutch torque. To adjust it, turn clutch switch off, turn the adjuster screw, then re-check the torque until you get your desired setting within the range specified for your model.

This is all straight from the Shimano shadow plus workshop manual...











> It may be that way because the Zee (for example) uses a short cage, thus needing less effort to reduce chain slap forces.


That's plausible, but as Cleared2land says, if that's the reason then you'd expect them to spec different torque settings for medium versus long cages as well. Unfortunately the workshop manual doesn't explain why there are different settings for XT/SLX/Deore versus Saint/Zee.


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## sikkfreerider (Nov 5, 2006)

Add me to the list guys, ive noticed my chain sounding much noisier lately and I adjusted the tension a couple months ago. I opened her up and mine broke the same way after about a year of riding on my Santa Cruz Tallboy LT. I found the part on ebay for 13.10 shipped so I just went that route instead of taking it to the shop for warrantee. hopefully itll last another year then by that time ill be ready for a whole new drivetrain. By that time shimano should have some new stuff out, might even have a new 1x12? haha


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

As an update to an earlier post I made, I had lubed the clutch using Buzzy's Sweet Honey Grease. I noticed and felt afterwards the movement was very notchey, had a higher breakaway point and not like my other Shadow Plus, so I ordered up the Shimano Hub Grease from Jenson. I just applied it and I can tell you my clutch is back to having a very smooth feel again. I'm sold, it was not cheap, but since I was ordering tires I figured what the heck. If you're lubing your clutch, this grease seems to be the stuff.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Thanks PerthMTB -- I'm filing your above post away for future reference!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Aresab said:


> As an update to an earlier post I made, I had lubed the clutch using Buzzy's Sweet Honey Grease. I noticed and felt afterwards the movement was very notchey, had a higher breakaway point and not like my other Shadow Plus, so I ordered up the Shimano Hub Grease from Jenson. I just applied it and I can tell you my clutch is back to having a very smooth feel again. I'm sold, it was not cheap, but since I was ordering tires I figured what the heck. If you're lubing your clutch, this grease seems to be the stuff.


It's interesting that you noted the unfavorable shift changes experienced when you used Buzzy's Sweet Honey Grease. I have heard of it, but have no experience with it. Is it thicker? As I stated in another thread regarding Shimano M-786 XT Shadow Plus Clutch Lubrication, I used Morningstar's Freehub lube. It's a pretty thin lubricant and it has worked great...especially for cold weather riding. Shifts are smooth, crisp and responsive. But like Shimano grease, it's not cheap either. Unfortunately, getting anymore of Paul Morningstar's tools or lubricants are on indefinite hold. Perhaps never to be available again. I have used Shimano lubricants and liked them.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

addATX said:


> Funny timing coincidence with post directly above. Don't know if I was able to get this only because Shimano just changed their policy or if this has been generally available.
> 
> When my clutch broke (that cam unit piece) last week, I just ordered a replacement piece from my LBS rather than dealing with a warranty on it. I couldn't get just that piece by itself - it came with the clutch/stabilizer unit and was billed as "stabilizer unit".
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this. I'm running 1x10 with no guide, so I went ahead and picked one of these up on Ebay. That way if the clutch fails or wears out, I can be right back on the trail.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Ok, now I'm convinced that mine's going to break, so I'm going to order one. Now my getting a spare hopefully is a two-part objective. One, I buy a spare and I'm covered. Two, I prolly won't need my spare because it's kinda like if you carry an umbrella, it won't rain sort of logic. So perhaps if I have a spare, I really won't need it. It seems I only experience flats when I don't carry a spare...so...


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Cleared2land said:


> It's interesting that you noted the unfavorable shift changes experienced when you used Buzzy's Sweet Honey Grease. I have heard of it, but have no experience with it. Is it thicker? As I stated in another thread regarding Shimano M-786 XT Shadow Plus Clutch Lubrication, I used Morningstar's Freehub lube. It's a pretty thin lubricant and it has worked great...especially for cold weather riding. Shifts are smooth, crisp and responsive. But like Shimano grease, it's not cheap either. Unfortunately, getting anymore of Paul Morningstar's tools or lubricants are on indefinite hold. Perhaps never to be available again. I have used Shimano lubricants and liked them.


Yes, it was very notchey feeling, not smooth in initial force and I certainly had enough of it. I could definitely feel it when cycling the derailleur by hand as well. Cleaned it off, put the Shimano grease on and it is now really is as smooth as the day I got it, maybe better. The Shimano grease is pretty thin, it appears to be thinner than Buzzy's which is also fairly thin. I'm wondering if it is a full synthetic grease, since Buzzy's appears to be petroleum based. That's a reason I use full synthetic motor oil in the semi-bath/splash oil for all of my forks, it's really slippery and keeps wear down. I also checked torque using a 4mm hex key and am right at the low end of the spectrum, so hopefully my clutch will last.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Aresab said:


> That's a reason I use full synthetic motor oil in the semi-bath/splash oil for all of my forks, it's really slippery and keeps wear down.


Ok, you've piqued my interest with your statement...here's a whole new subject that's going to take this thread in another direction. Do I understand that you're using a synthetic motor oil in your forks? Care to explain? Are you replacing your fork oil with this?


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Cleared2land said:


> Ok, you've piqued my interest with your statement...here's a whole new subject that's going to take this thread in another direction. Do I understand that you're using a synthetic motor oil in your forks? Care to explain? Are you replacing your fork oil with this?


Hi,
I don't want to divert the thread too much, but Yes, I use full Synthetic 5W40 Castrol European car oil from Autozone in the BATH OIL ONLY (lubricates bushings/stanchions), not damper. Manitou told me this years ago as a replacement for Motorex Semibath oil which was very similar and hard to find at the time. I use it in all brands regardless of their recommendation (for instance, Rockshox recommends 15W fork oil in lowers and 5W in damper). The forks slide like butter.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Same here for my Fox. It was recommended by the owner of EnduroForkSeals.

All it does is lubricate. I don't think it is critical.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Thanks for the information on forks...I learn something every time I’m on here. Now back to our regularly scheduled programing. 
All of this talk about tensioning adjustors breaking has me wanting to pull mine back out and take a look at what might could be done to modify or fabricate a better unit. Necessity is the mother of invention. Having not pulled mine back out to look, is there possibly enough clearance on the inside radius of the bend where it’s breaking to braze a very thin bead for reinforcement?


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

As the discussion has turned to lubrication of the clutch, I thought you guys might be interested to know what the official Shimano position is on the subject - straight from the workshop manual :-









I think the key phrase to note here, especially considering some of the photos above, is "Make sure that no grease gets inside the clutch ... as it will cause the clutch to malfunction"

PS: I've found somewhere in Europe that sells the cam unit only for about $6, rather than having to buy the whole stabilizer unit, and I've ordered a couple of spares...

SHIMANO spare part Y-5Y198120, RD-M786 CAM UNIT || Shimano Code: Y5Y1


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

PerthMTB brought up the clutch lube issue, so I'll link an earlier post that I put together on this point. Some of you have already seen this.

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...xt-shadow-plus-clutch-lubrication-893724.html

What I'm not exactly clear on is the Shimano statement "Make sure that no grease gets inside the clutch ... as it will cause the clutch to malfunction". I'm not sure where that grease isn't supposed to go. Perhaps some others understand this, but having had this all apart, it's a little nebulous to me. To me, the drum and the band make up the clutch. And, isn't that clutch that is being lubed. ???


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

I think they mean not to get grease in the "ratcheting" part -- in other words on the shaft that the drum slips into or the hole or innards in the drum.

("Clutch" in this case refers to the ratcheting mechanism, not the friction part.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freewheel
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutch
See the section on "overrunning clutch" near the end)



ClearedToLand said:


> Having not pulled mine back out to look, is there possibly enough clearance on the inside radius of the bend where it's breaking to braze a very thin bead for reinforcement?


I'm quite certain that there would be.

Like your lubing writeup.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

> What I'm not exactly clear on is the Shimano statement "Make sure that no grease gets inside the clutch ... as it will cause the clutch to malfunction". I'm not sure where that grease isn't supposed to go. Perhaps some others understand this, but having had this all apart, it's a little nebulous to me. To me, the drum and the band make up the clutch. And, isn't that clutch that is being lubed. ???





> DennisF
> I think they mean not to get grease in the "ratcheting" part -- in other words on the shaft that the drum slips into or the hole or innards in the drum.


I agree with Dennis on this. Apart from the cam, drum, and band you mention, there is a fourth part to the clutch mechanism - the ratchet in the centre of the drum which allows free movement in one direction while the clutch operates in the other. Given the sensitivity of standard freehub ratchet pawls to the kind of grease applied, and the much smaller size of the ratchet mechanism in the shadow plus clutch, I'm sure it would be very sensitive to the amount and type of grease applied. If swamped in too much, or of too high a viscosity, I'm sure the pawls would stick and give the "notchey" feeling Aresab reported.

So I guess "Make sure that no grease gets inside the clutch ... as it will cause the clutch to malfunction" could be translated as "Don't stick any grease into that little hole in the centre of the drum!"


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Thanks guys, that does clear it up. And thanks for the added reference Dennis. In the handling of putting mine back together I'm betting that I did get some grease in that area. I didn't really take particular precautions to prevent that. However, I have noticed no problems or performance degradation. Everything is very smooth. With that being said, it's a 10 minute job to pull it back out clean it up and re-lube appropriately. Thanks again for the clarification!


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

PerthMTB said:


> I agree with Dennis on this. Apart from the cam, drum, and band you mention, there is a fourth part to the clutch mechanism - the ratchet in the centre of the drum which allows free movement in one direction while the clutch operates in the other. Given the sensitivity of standard freehub ratchet pawls to the kind of grease applied, and the much smaller size of the ratchet mechanism in the shadow plus clutch, I'm sure it would be very sensitive to the amount and type of grease applied. If swamped in too much, or of too high a viscosity, I'm sure the pawls would stick and give the "notchey" feeling Aresab reported.
> 
> So I guess "Make sure that no grease gets inside the clutch ... as it will cause the clutch to malfunction" could be translated as "Don't stick any grease into that little hole in the centre of the drum!"


Hi PerthMTB,
While I agree that grease inside the clutch could make it notchey, that was not it in my case. I never put grease inside the clutch and when I cleaned the Buzzy's and put Shimanos hub grease, it was back to normal and very smooth. I'm sure there are comparable types of grease to Shimano's, but my experience was Buzzy's did not work in the clutch for me.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Aresab said:


> Hi PerthMTB,
> While I agree that grease inside the clutch could make it notchey, that was not it in my case. I never put grease inside the clutch and when I cleaned the Buzzy's and put Shimanos hub grease, it was back to normal and very smooth. I'm sure there are comparable types of grease to Shimano's, but my experience was Buzzy's did not work in the clutch for me.


Ok, that's good to know, and sorry I jumped to conclusions.

These shadow plus mechs are turning out to be sensitive little things - cams breaking, shouldn't grease the ratchet, need to be careful what you put on the drum...

Might have to return to a normal mech if this carries on, though I really don't want to go back to the days of my chain rattling like a supermarket trolley!


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

I'm hoping regular greasing keeps it in line, but time will tell I guess. The parts appear to be relatively cheap and when they do break it's just like having no clutch so I'm okay with it. $12 or so and if the part lasts a year I'm kinda okay, not thrilled but... I do love the silence!


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

FYI, the ratchet mechanism doesn't have pawls. It has rollers -- I don't know how it works.

See the first diagram here
Freewheel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok, it's the second diagram when using my laptop and not my phone. I'll just copy it here. Thanks Wikipedia.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Ok, this is where I become confused again. I did lubricate the internal (one-way) roller bearings of the clutch drum as shown in the photo. However, the clutch contines to work as smoothly and effectively as when new. I'm not experiencing any problems or symptoms that would indicate a malfunction.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

As long as it's not slipping, I'd think you're good!


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

I have resisted taking mine apart and greasing it etc, as it is still working.

At least if the clutch unit DOES fail, you can carry on riding as normal, and it doesn't disable the gears.

And you can buy a repair part....unlike on my XT brake lever, where l broke off the adjuster. Had to buy a whole new unit.

Also you can replace the clutch without messing up the indexing.

So a bit of good news. No excuse for the failures....more a case of damage limitation.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Well lotusdriver, a little grease might forestall a clutch failure and even facilitate smoother operation. Obviously it won't have any bearing on the adjuster short comings, but it's really an easy task. I would consider at least taking a look to see if you have the proper lubrication given the number of complaints where little or no grease has been documented.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

> FYI, the ratchet mechanism doesn't have pawls. It has rollers





> I did lubricate the internal (one-way) roller bearings of the clutch drum as shown in the photo


Ok, that piqued my interest, as I love to know how things work, and its 111 deg F outside today so I won't be riding!

So, I took the clutch ratchet apart to find out how it worked and why Shimano would say greasing it is a no-no.

The diagram Denis posted above shows the basic setup, main difference in this case is it's roller bearings and leaf springs rather than ball bearings and coil springs ...









I also found it was lubricated from the factory with a thin oil, and I hazard a guess that grease might gum up the operation of these delicate springs and bearings, which are relying on friction, small spring forces, and free movement of the roller bearings in order to function properly. So, I think this is why Shimano are saying not to put grease on the ratchet. But, doesn't mean to say you shouldn't lubricate it - just follow their lead and use oil rather than grease would be my advice.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

I have a snap-on stud remover that works the same way as the clutch and a few really large ratchets.
The rollers are on a inclined plane within the ring and when the internal ring starts to turn the wrong way the rollers roll down the plane and wedge themselves between the ring and the inclined plane. It more of a one way ratchet than a clutch but works the same.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

PerthMTB said:


> Ok, that piqued my interest, as I love to know how things work, and its 111 deg F outside today so I won't be riding!
> 
> So, I took the clutch ratchet apart to find out how it worked and why Shimano would say greasing it is a no-no.
> 
> ...


You're one step ahead of me. All of this exchange had my curiosity piqued too and my plan was to pull mine back apart to figure out exactly how this thing works. I glad you saved me the trouble. I used a freehub lubricant that's very thin and perhaps that's why mine continues to function properly. Or at least I perceive it to be working correctly. I have ridden some technical stuff with drop-offs, small log hops and such and I haven't noticed any chain slap like pre-shadow. As a point, I have be consciously listening for the chain slap and have not noticed it. I will monitor closely and see how it goes. With that being said, I likely will not lube it in the same manner next time. Thanks Perth!


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Good info everyone. Thanks. I have some synthetic 75w90 differential oil I use for my freehub. It is fairly thin yet sticks to what you put it on. I'm gonna try that on my ratchet.

Cleared2Land, you can easily tell if it is slipping or not by removing the cover and moving the cage by hand. When you are opposing the spring, the drum should rotate the same amount as the cage shaft. If there is slippage, you should see it no problem.


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## gumby. (Mar 11, 2013)

WarBoom said:


> It more of a one way ratchet than a clutch but works the same.


so that makes this a ratcheting slipper clutch. I see I have some catching up to do, it's great to see there's finally some tech docs and thoughtful commentary.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

How much chain slap is "normal" with these? I hear 1-2 slaps per ride with mine that I installed when I went 1x. Maybe I need to take more links out (only took 3 out) of the chain.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

Sounds like yours is working fine then.

When l fitted mine it completely stopped the cacophony of clattering from my drivetrain on descents.

I cannot say l listen out for the odd chain slap, but l don't notice any noise at all when the clutch is engaged tbh.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Perhaps the simplest way to confirm clutch operation short of checking torque is to just grab your cage and check for resistance during deflection. You'll know what feels right, especially if you have familiarity of what a non-clutched cage feels like.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Shadow + doesn't eliminate chain slap, but comes darn close. Two or three hits on an aggressive ride, you're good.

My chain hits the cable attachment bolt on the FD. More of a ticking sound, not as loud as when it hits the chainstay. There is very little clearance there. The Shadow + doesn't help this.

I solved the problem by slipping a short piece of vacuum hose over it.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

anyone have a source for the replacement stabilizer assembly? The places i can find online are sold out.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

drmayer said:


> anyone have a source for the replacement stabilizer assembly? The places i can find online are sold out.


I bought both the cam unit Y-5Y198120 and the Shimano grease for it Y-04120800 here:
Willkommen bei bicikli.de - Hochwertige Fahrradersatzteile und Fahrradzubehör 
The parcel is on it's way to me.
It is good news that the spare part is almost sold out, then maybe next batch will be made in a better quality as it seems not possible that Shimano still should not know that they are having a weak link.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

las-palmas said:


> IIt is good news that the spare part is almost sold out, then maybe next batch will be made in a better quality as it seems not possible that Shimano still should not know that they are having a weak link.


*That might be some overly optimistic thinking. We're talking Shimano here. I hope you're correct in your assumptions.*


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Have just received Grease and clutch spare part.

Cleared2land:
You could have a point in your thoughts about Shimano.
The part I have received is made with a too sharp bend just like the ones that break.
Will replace the part and grease it and keep the SLX rd as spare should my XTR 986 go bad like so many other shadow plus rear dérailleurs do.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

drmayer said:


> anyone have a source for the replacement stabilizer assembly? The places i can find online are sold out.


There are a few still listed on Ebay at the moment. Search on "Shimano Chain Stablizer for Rear Derailleur XT RD-M786 SLX RD-M675 ZEE RD-M640"


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

JACKL said:


> There are a few still listed on Ebay at the moment. Search on "Shimano Chain Stablizer for Rear Derailleur XT RD-M786 SLX RD-M675 ZEE RD-M640"


I copy and pasted that into ebay and no results came up. do you have a direct link?


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

drmayer said:


> I copy and pasted that into ebay and no results came up. do you have a direct link?


I have just received the clutch part (Y-5Y198120) from Germany, they have no more in stock now, but send a mail to Dirk Dudek bicikli Kundenservice [email protected] and ask him when he will again have the part in stock. He speak English.

https://bicikli.de/shop/kontakt.php?lang=eng


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## rglsr (Aug 9, 2004)

They should sell multi-packs of these, I've blown out 2 in the last few months.
Luckily I had a destroyed rear der to scavenge from, swapped clutch out.
How do you get warranty parts from Shimano?, LBS or can you call them?


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## sohnice (Sep 5, 2010)

For xt user you still can buy spares, whereas XTR you will have to buy a new RD if you broke yours.


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## rglsr (Aug 9, 2004)

If you need to buy some of the Shimano Y5Y198020 chain stabilizer parts kits, ebikestop.com and aebike.com have them. ebikestop has best price of $8.95 each.
A LBS mechanic I know contacted Shimano on this, they suggested decreasing the internal clutch tension slightly. That's what the small adjustment screw on the yoke (the part that is breaking) is for. Back it out slightly to reduce tension on the yoke.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

sohnice said:


> For xt user you still can buy spares, whereas XTR you will have to buy a new RD if you broke yours.


Sohnice, that's not correct. You can get a replacement stabilizer unit for XTR's just like for the XT's. The the part number for the XTR is Y5XD98030. 
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...RD/EV-RD-M985-3156A_v1_m56577569830799960.pdf


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

rglsr said:


> If you need to buy some of the Shimano Y5Y198020 chain stabilizer parts kits, ebikestop.com and aebike.com have them. ebikestop has best price of $8.95 each.
> A LBS mechanic I know contacted Shimano on this, they suggested decreasing the internal clutch tension slightly. That's what the small adjustment screw on the yoke (the part that is breaking) is for. Back it out slightly to reduce tension on the yoke.


I agree this might be the ticket to extend the life of the chain stabilizer unit and possibly prevent the ongoing breakage. I incorporated this action to try and see if I can avoid the problem. Shimano specifies the friction torque between 30 and 47 in. lbs. I adjusted mine down to 30 in. lbs and have not experienced any significant chain slap. In reality, this is treating the symptom and not the problem. Shimano needs to re-design the bracket to meet the demand stresses imposed when adjusted to recommended torques.

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...SI-0120A-003-00-Eng_v1_m56577569830789046.pdf


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

My zee clutch just broken as per this thread.. But in Australia it is going to cost over $30 to get the replacement parts shipped!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Availability*

As an interesting note. I have noticed that these Shimano Chain Stabilizer's appear to be becoming widely available again. eBay, Amazon, etc.


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## sohnice (Sep 5, 2010)

Cleared2land said:


> Sohnice, that's not correct. You can get a replacement stabilizer unit for XTR's just like for the XT's. The the part number for the XTR is Y5XD98030.
> http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...RD/EV-RD-M985-3156A_v1_m56577569830799960.pdf


I know there is stabiliser unit to purchase, but the area that is broken is the adjuster key holder. That pcs is riveted onto the main unit. See post #42 picture for reference.


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## Dphoward (Jul 29, 2013)

Has anyone tried applying a thin layer of epoxy or guerrilla glue to the stress areas? Maybe a little reinforcement would mend the problem?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Your suggestion is good in intension, but this is a high stress part that needs to be re-engineered to decrease the radius or use thicker material. I have thought that possibly brazing a small bead along the fracture area could theoretically work, but after examining the part in question, I do not think there is enough clearance to do even do this. *


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Until Shimano make a new part with either a stronger material or a less sharp bend (it is the same side it break every time), I think the only way to make the part last longer is to decrease the tension of the spring to the minimum stated. I did that and have no problem with chain slab or ghost shifting even on rough terrain driving fast. No broken parts for 2 months now.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

Mine hasn't broken again. Not saying that it won't but I did notice that the part from shimano seems to be slightly thicker than the last one. I'll have to get my mic out and check tho.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

WarBoom said:


> Mine hasn't broken again. Not saying that it won't but I did notice that the part from shimano seems to be slightly thicker than the last one. I'll have to get my mic out and check tho.


*Yes, please do mic it. I'm quite interested to see if your hypothesis is correct. Actually, I doubt you can get a mic in there, but caliper jaws should do the trick.*


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

WarBoom said:


> Mine hasn't broken again. Not saying that it won't but I did notice that the part from shimano seems to be slightly thicker than the last one. I'll have to get my mic out and check tho.





Cleared2land said:


> *Yes, please do mic it. I'm quite interested to see if your hypothesis is correct. Actually, I doubt you can get a mic in there, but caliper jaws should do the trick.*


*Ok WarBoom, did you get it mic'd or just evaporate? Care to report your results?*


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Yeah, I'm waiting too 

I mic'd mine, purchased in May '13. It is 1.27mm. It has 1200 miles and so far none the worse for wear.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

More issues with my der, looks like I spoke too soon.

The der is not returning to a collapsed state.
Clutch on or off it gets stuck or is very loose.
It has kinked and ruined my new chain several times and ruined a new xt cass.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

Ya I got around to mic'ing it. The current one is 1.3mm I couldn't find my old one lol.

Gonna replace the xt with a short saint shadow


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

I eased the tension of my XTR 986 to 3½Nm some months ago, lubricated it and it still functions like it is supposed to.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

WarBoom said:


> Ya I got around to mic'ing it. The current one is 1.3mm I couldn't find my old one lol.
> 
> Gonna replace the xt with a short saint shadow


The Saint has same clutch system as the XT. XTR has a different system.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

Ya but the xt isn't available in short and a saint is


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## arclarke (Jun 9, 2013)

You can fit a saint cage to an XTR mech, I did - all clutch mech cages look interchangeable (but XTR jockey wheels only fit XTR cage). The grip of the XTR clutch feels stronger to me than my previous SLX one.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

arclarke said:


> You can fit a saint cage to an XTR mech, I did - all clutch mech cages look interchangeable (but XTR jockey wheels only fit XTR cage). The grip of the XTR clutch feels stronger to me than my previous SLX one.


Are you talking about the Shadow Plus versions here or the models not having the + clutch?
My old SLX clutch can be adjusted so the clutch is too aggressive and probably break sooner just like the XTR clutch can (both Shadow Plus). The difference is the system of the retainer of the clutch that is different on the XTR from all other Shadow Plus dérailleurs.


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## arclarke (Jun 9, 2013)

Just shadow plus - and I mean just cages from other plus models.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

Ya I would love to have a xtr saint hybrid. Except a saint is $200 and xtr is $300 don't think I could stand that much!


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## arclarke (Jun 9, 2013)

Not a huge help but saint cage plates are sold as spares - I found them online in UK at reasonable price (less than buying a Zee for equivalent parts in steel).


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Maybe I was right about Shimano and they are not as bad as you thought.
None of my shadow plus derailleurs have broken since I adjusted and greased them. The SLX has a new clutch in it and no problem there. Just as good as the XTR.
Could be that the problem was when they assembled them in the factory and used to little grease and too much tension.
No reports here since a couple of months so either the problem has been solved (or people here have given up reporting problems).


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

las-palmas said:


> None of my shadow plus derailleurs have broken since I adjusted and greased them. The SLX has a new clutch in it and no problem there. Just as good as the XTR.
> Could be that the problem was when they assembled them in the factory and used to little grease and too much tension.
> No reports here since a couple of months so either the problem has been solved (or people here have given up reporting problems).


I have to concur that I have had no problems with the clutch mechanism at all since reducing the torque on the clutch. Perhaps I'm just lucky or the trick worked. I still would like to know if Shimano has beefed-up the clutch bracket on the new production.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Mine is still going strong at 1400 mi.

It was getting sticky again, and it was time to tighten the band, so I went to relube and adjust it and noticed a strange wear pattern. The black surface is worn thru at about a half-dozen places -- just narrow wear areas, not evenly like you would think.

The photo clearly shows three of these. The colored band that reaches clear across the band at about the 11:00 position is just glare. There is a big wear area just to the left of the glare, and a small one to the right. Further to the right is another large one.

Anyway, I'm thinking about switching to a more heavy-duty grease than the white lithium I have been using, and maybe buffing the inside with some rubbing compound.

The drum has no visible wear BTW.

ETA someone recommends Shimano Hub grease. http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...ken-xt-shadow-plus-859272-5.html#post10919523

It is expensive, and also a white grease:
Amazon.com : Shimano Internal Hub Grease, 100g : Bike Greases : Sports & Outdoors


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Can someone post the cliff notes version of the recommended maintenance? 

Grease the drum and retighten to only 3.5nm? What about the band tension?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

DennisF said:


> Mine is still going strong at 1400 mi.
> 
> It was getting sticky again, and it was time to tighten the band, so I went to relube and adjust it and noticed a strange wear pattern. The black surface is worn thru at about a half-dozen places -- just narrow wear areas, not evenly like you would think.
> 
> ...


After seeing your pix of the band marks, I want to take a look at mine. I suspect it's a normal wear pattern, but worthy of looking into. I currently have 1,750 miles on my clutch with no problems at all. For clutch lubricant I used Morningstar's Freehub lube. It's a thin lubricant, but has worked fine. I remember hearing of someone (earlier in this thread?) that experienced problems with a thicker lubricant and changed to a Shimano lubricant.



007 said:


> Can someone post the cliff notes version of the recommended maintenance?
> 
> Grease the drum and retighten to only 3.5nm? What about the band tension?


The cliff notes are outlined earlier in this thread. The band tension is a product of the clutch torque. Shimano suggest a clutch torque of between 3.5 - 5.4 nm for the XT/SLX/Deore clutches. But remember, it's the torque on the 4mm clutch drum, not the adjustment bolt.

















http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...SI-0120A-003-00-Eng_v1_m56577569830789046.pdf


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Thanks! :thumbsup:

I've got some CK RingDrive lube, which is what I use in my rear hub and is a relatively thin grease. I'll give that a whirl . . .


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

I lubed my freehub with some 90-weight synthetic differential oil I had, based on something I read somewhere. What do ya'll think of that for the RD clutch?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

DennisF said:


> I lubed my freehub with some 90-weight synthetic differential oil I had, based on something I read somewhere. What do ya'll think of that for the RD clutch?


Give it a try. See how it works. Can always just disassemble, clean and lube with grease if results are not satisfactory. Nothing to lose.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Ok, I tried the Mobile 1 synthetic 75w90 gear oil for lubing the drum and band, and the mechanism is now silky-smooth! Better than new I would say. Now let's see how long it STAYS smooth. Thanks to Aresab for leading me in this direction.
http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...ken-xt-shadow-plus-859272-5.html#post10919523

In the process, I broke the plastic engagement lever handle. I think it was because I was trying to operate it with the cover off, and the thing was at an angle. Anyway, ordered a replacement for $5 ppd.
Shimano XT RD M786 SLX RD M675 Switch Lever Unit Fixing Plate | eBay

The old one is gray and the new one is black, so hopefully they changed more than just the color.

That seller also has a good price on the stabilizer unit BTW.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Another thing--I guess this is obvious to most people, but this may save someone else some time. It took me a bit to figure it out :

When adjusting the clutch tork, remove the chain from the rings so as to unwind the cage spring as much as possible. At first I was in an intermediate gear, and the spring caused the torque wrench to register more than the desired torque even with no resistance from the drum and band.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

DennisF said:


> Another thing--I guess this is obvious to most people, but this may save someone else some time. It took me a bit to figure it out :
> 
> When adjusting the clutch tork, remove the chain from the rings so as to unwind the cage spring as much as possible. At first I was in an intermediate gear, and the spring caused the torque wrench to register more than the desired torque even with no resistance from the drum and band.


Interesting thought, but I do it in the tallest cassette gear (small). You might have a point!


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Shifting to small-small would do practically the same thing. I have a medium cage rd and am 2 teeth over rated capacity, so it was pretty loose there.


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## dfaith (Feb 19, 2007)

Folks I just one of those people that just goes into action when someone says its broken. My XT clutch just gave up. So I looked at some of the posts you good folks posted and decided I'd give it a go. I used the broken piece as a guide. I cut a piece from a tridon clamp as the steal has some spring to it, figuring it would last. With a punch, drill and grinder I machined a nifty replacement. Went together nicely, seems to work when I push it by hand. I will post again after this weekends ride and hopefully post a picture and a details how exactly I made it with modest tools. I can pretty much guarantee it will never break.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

dfaith said:


> I will post again after this weekends ride and hopefully post a picture and a details how exactly I made it with modest tools. I can pretty much guarantee it will never break.


Yeah, please post some pix of it. I would like to see what you did!


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## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

dfaith said:


> Folks I just one of those people that just goes into action when someone says its broken. My XT clutch just gave up. So I looked at some of the posts you good folks posted and decided I'd give it a go. I used the broken piece as a guide. I cut a piece from a tridon clamp as the steal has some spring to it, figuring it would last. With a punch, drill and grinder I machined a nifty replacement. Went together nicely, seems to work when I push it by hand. I will post again after this weekends ride and hopefully post a picture and a details how exactly I made it with modest tools. I can pretty much guarantee it will never break.


a new one is only like $15...


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

time229er said:


> a new one is only like $15...


Fabricating better stuff is kinda like the sailboat saying: "It's not the destination, it's the journey".


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## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

Cleared2land said:


> Fabricating better stuff is kinda like the sailboat saying: "It's not the destination, it's the journey".


I am a life long sailor...born on a Hobie 18, but I still am at a loss as to why you need to take the "journey"


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Cleared2land said:


> Fabricating better stuff is kinda like the sailboat saying: "It's not the destination, it's the journey".


With all the talk about poor quality from Shimano, nobody should be blamed for making something that is better.

Still I am happy with my shadow plus, nothing happened to it since it got lubricated and adjusted correct. Maybe Shimano is not so bad after all.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Mine was feeling notchy today (I lubed with synthetic differential oil a few weeks ago), so I pulled the cover, and it looked dry. Maybe I didn't use enough. I put some in a syringe and injected it onto the drum between the tabs on the band and got it good and wet. We'll see what happens.

Dfaith, I'm looking forward to seeing what you did!


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I am very disappointed that mine broke today. I found this thread, and I am amazed how badly Shimano screwed this up. Could it be related to bad set up of B tension screw by us users? As others noted are full suspension frames more susceptible? Lack of maintenance? Mine has had no maintenance and broke within 50 hours of new (I track hours for fork maint). I called Shimano and they did not want to help at all. This was very different than previous calls over the last 10 years, in which I found Shimano customer service very willing to replace stuff, if warranty period intact. I was told to print form, pay for shipping both ways, and they would look at it ( I will ship it to them ). SRAM is of no interest to me, until now. They have the 1 x 11 dialed, even if I was a naysayer, Shimano better take care of us fanboys or I will give SRAM a try (I love the new PIKE I bought, after 8 fox forks). My solution was to buy 2nd XT Shadow Plus today, as I need bike tomorrow, $86. Bummer. I really only need one, but at least I can always have one in the mail, from what I have read in above posts. Not a durable product.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Mine has no visible broken parts. It just freezes like WARBOOM, from page 7 shows in pictures. The chain just hangs, un tensioned. Man, what a chain destroying machine this has become. Now I have 2 spare chains on hand in supplies! I'm really disappointed because I was addicted to clutch! I almost bought a non clutch today to save myself the hassle, but the clutch is awesome when working.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

hoolie said:


> Mine has no visible broken parts. It just freezes like WARBOOM, from page 7 shows in pictures. The chain just hangs, un tensioned. Man, what a chain destroying machine this has become. Now I have 2 spare chains on hand in supplies! I'm really disappointed because I was addicted to clutch! I almost bought a non clutch today to save myself the hassle, but the clutch is awesome when working.


If nothing is broken I suggest you see what Cleared2land wrote on the subject:

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...xt-shadow-plus-clutch-lubrication-893724.html

Mine was broken and I saw this before I got the new from Shimano, so I lubricated and adjusted to 3.5 NM and have had no problems with the Shadow+ function since then.

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830789046.pdf

WarBoom sent pictures of the part broken on the first post on this and when removing the cover it may not seem broken until you take the clutch out.

I think that in the beginning Shimano just had somebody put these parts together who did not remember to grease the parts.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Well, I've now broken 2 of these things . . . really don't want to have to buy another thing and will attempt to get a warranty replacement; we'll see what happens.

Do the SLX versions have similar problems?


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

I've got 2 of them now. Each 3 months when it breaks I send it back to Shimano for warranty and chuck the spare on the bike. Rinse and repeat.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

007 said:


> Well, I've now broken 2 of these things . . . really don't want to have to buy another thing and will attempt to get a warranty replacement; we'll see what happens.
> 
> Do the SLX versions have similar problems?


I broke one SLX after a couple of months.
I have one XTR on another bike and that has been functioning correct, but I did lubricate and adjust the XTR as I bought it after my SLX stopped functioning and I read this thread.
I think Shimano did not lubricate the clutch mechanism well and probably also adjusted it to be more stiff than needed to do the job.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

007 said:


> Do the SLX versions have similar problems?


Yep, my SLX broke. The cam unit which is breaking is exactly the same in XT, SLX, Deore, Zee, Saint mechs as it has the same part number (Y5Y198120). Only XTR is a different part.


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## Bradym77 (Nov 22, 2011)

For the riders who are just now breaking their RD's after Shimano has supposedly "addressed" this. When did you buy your RD's? Are they older models just now breaking? I bought a Zee earlier this year (February) and really don't want to have to worry about this.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Bradym77 said:


> For the riders who are just now breaking their RD's after Shimano has supposedly "addressed" this. When did you buy your RD's? Are they older models just now breaking? I bought a Zee earlier this year (February) and really don't want to have to worry about this.


My SLX was ordered before they could deliver so probably one of the first. It lasted a couple of months before I noticed the chain slap but could have broken before that.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Just an update. I broke 3 XTs before finally giving up and reluctantly biting the bullet and buying an XTR. I'm happy to report I've had no problems with the XTR in the many months I've used it.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> Fabricating better stuff is kinda like the sailboat saying: "It's not the destination, it's the journey".





time229er said:


> I am a life long sailor...born on a Hobie 18, but I still am at a loss as to why you need to take the "journey"


For me personally, it's the pleasure of fabricating things that just work better, not necessarily the better part itself. I just enjoy working with materials and fabricating stuff.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

SoCal-Rider said:


> Just an update. I broke 3 XTs before finally giving up and reluctantly biting the bullet and buying an XTR. I'm happy to report I've had no problems with the XTR in the many months I've used it.


I'm tempted to do the same. I've sent my XT in for a warranty and will consider selling the replacement and upgrading to an XTR just to not have to deal with this anymore.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Shimano did the right thing and replaced my 50 hour old broken one with a new one. I really have to hand it to them, as mine was scratched up, and I really only needed the repair. Thumbs up to the customer service again! But the engineering remains suspect on these? Thanks Shimano, I appreciate the new part, and I am very loyal Shimano user.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Has anyone found a good substitute grease? I tried some Chris King Ring Drive lube, which is a pretty thin grease used in their hubs, but when I put it all back together, it definitely felt notchy and was not smooth in its movement. 

Any alternatives?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

007 said:


> Has anyone found a good substitute grease? I tried some Chris King Ring Drive lube, which is a pretty thin grease used in their hubs, but when I put it all back together, it definitely felt notchy and was not smooth in its movement.
> 
> Any alternatives?


I went in to my lbs with a ziplock and they gave me a squirt the size of a dime. That's enough for a long time.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

I bought a small tube of the original Shimano for about 10 Euro and that is useful for a lot of other things also. If used only for the clutch it will last longer than I do.
3 months since I lubed and still smooth. I adjusted to the lowest torque shown on the spec-sheet and even on real bad potholes on paved road downhill with above 60 km/h that is enough.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

007 said:


> Has anyone found a good substitute grease? I tried some Chris King Ring Drive lube, which is a pretty thin grease used in their hubs, but when I put it all back together, it definitely felt notchy and was not smooth in its movement.
> 
> Any alternatives?


You need to get a spare RD if you're gonna continue to break these things, oops I meant use these things. I just so happen to have a NIB XT Shadow Plus.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

007 said:


> Has anyone found a good substitute grease? I tried some Chris King Ring Drive lube, which is a pretty thin grease used in their hubs, but when I put it all back together, it definitely felt notchy and was not smooth in its movement.
> 
> Any alternatives?


I have been using Morningstar's Freehub lube with good results, but I don't think it's available anymore. It's thinner than the Shimano lube though. I now have 1,840 miles on this clutch since the last clutch lube (Jan 2014) and it's working flawlessly. 2,110 miles total miles since new on this RD+. I didn't think it had been that long...I guess it's time to do some servicing on this.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

My synthetic differential oil experiment is working great. I was stingy with it the first time (didn't want to make a mess) and it got rough after a few rides. I was more liberal with the 2nd application and it seems to be lasting now.

I keep a 3cc syringe with an 18 gauge needle filled with it. A very convenient applicator, & enough to last practically forever without refilling the syringe.


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## ALS650L (Apr 19, 2009)

I'm in the middle of season two with my XT rear derailleur, no failure yet. However I've been battling some terrible creaking on my bike for awhile and have traced it to the derailleur. Could this be a lubrication issue? I have not opened it up yet. I was sure I had bad bearings in the suspension pivots. I took the derailleur off and all is silent when the suspension is cycled. It almost seems like it's the pivots in the cage, not the clutch mechanism but I'm not certain.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

ALS650L said:


> I'm in the middle of season two with my XT rear derailleur, no failure yet. However I've been battling some terrible creaking on my bike for awhile and have traced it to the derailleur. Could this be a lubrication issue? I have not opened it up yet. I was sure I had bad bearings in the suspension pivots. I took the derailleur off and all is silent when the suspension is cycled. It almost seems like it's the pivots in the cage, not the clutch mechanism but I'm not certain.


You need a 2mm allen to pull the cover. Get a dime size squirt of the Shimano hub grease from your lbs and do the lube for the clutch and cam unit with a toothpick.


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## ALS650L (Apr 19, 2009)

Shimano hub grease doesn't happen to be similar to park grease does it?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

It's white. Your lbs has the $12 tube. Get a small dime size amount from them probably no cost. That amount will last you forever.


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## ALS650L (Apr 19, 2009)

I opened it up last night, very clean inside, nothing broken either, greased it per the manual with park grease. However this isn't the source of my noise. The pivots in the linkage seem loose to me, however I don't have another XT derailleur to compare it to.


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## ferguson65 (Jun 7, 2013)

Bought mine new on the bike December of 13. Noticed issues with it last ride. Took it apart today and it's broke. Heading for a major trip next week and I can't get the parts for it, because everyone online is sold out. Fantastic. Thanks for the support Shimano. Guess I'll try calling Shimano Monday and see if they have anything they can 2 day to me................. None of the LBS's have it.

My bothers bike is a year older with the same derailleur and it still works.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

I went and bought a $5 tube of white lithium grease from the autoparts store. Working great (so far).


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## dan4jeepin (Apr 9, 2007)

Opened mine up tonight hoping it would just need adjusting. Nope parts started falling out when I took off the cover. Lasted less then a year and is the third XT shadow+ I've broken. Probably pony up the cash and go with SRAM seem way more reliable these days.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

dan4jeepin said:


> Opened mine up...parts started falling out when I took off the cover.


Help us out here. What 'parts' fell out? What failed? Given your statement of what you were expecting to find, It appears that you were not aware that it had even failed? Have any photos to share?


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## ferguson65 (Jun 7, 2013)

WarBoom said:


> View attachment 806568
> 
> How it appeared when I opened it up
> 
> ...


This is exactly what falls out, from the original post.

If you ride the bike hard, and fast it's easy to tell if its broke. I had no to minimal chain slap when it worked. Now it hammers endlessly. And you can feel it in the on/off switch for the clutch. It used to have some resistance when you engaged it, once it breaks the lever has no resistance.

Can't buy it anywhere right now, everyone is sold out as the part is clearly junk. LBS can't get it from their supplier, sold out, sold out on the internet. Called Shimano direct as I'm going on vacation specifically to ride leaving Thursday, and would really like it fixed. They aren't "retail licensed" and can't sell me one though, he said they may have a few around for warranty replacements. Won't warranty one to me either, said I need to go to LBS for warranty, and that even if I tried to 2 day one, which I was ready to do, they wouldn't turn it that fast. Not very happy with that outcome.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Have had SRAM. Did not like the noise when shifting. Can be heard 3 mountains away. Besides shifting is not as smooth as you are used to on the Shimano.
My 986 has been taken abuse a long time now and the SLX is still not broken after changing the clutch I got from Shimano and lubricated it with the recommended grease.
I did adjust it to the minimum torque and that is still enough.


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## dan4jeepin (Apr 9, 2007)

Same part that most people seem to be breaking in this thread. I noticed it didn't feel any different with the clutch on or off and was opening it up to adjust it. 








Probably just ride without the clutch until I can get the money to go SRAM.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

dan4jeepin said:


> Same part that most people seem to be breaking in this thread. I noticed it didn't feel any different with the clutch on or off and was opening it up to adjust it.


I have to comment after seeing your cam unit...I see no signs of any lubricant anywhere on the cam, clutch, or band. I'm not sure how much of a contribution that could make to a a pre-existing design flaw, but it looks like you could have benefited from some lubricant.


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## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> I have to comment after seeing your cam unit...I see no signs of any lubricant anywhere on the cam, clutch, or band. I'm not sure how much of a contribution that could make to a a pre-existing design flaw, but it looks like you could have benefited from some lubricant.


The cam units come totally dry. Are you sure they are supposed to have grease/lubrication??


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

addATX said:


> The cam units come totally dry. Are you sure they are supposed to have grease/lubrication??


My cam came lubricated, although not adequately. While I do not recall if the Shimano lube instructions specifically address lubing the cam, it seems only logical to consider doing so when you see mechanically how the tensioner and the cam function together. Metal to metal under tension while adding a rotational force needs something to reduce the friction.









*Additionally,* I might add that the cam rotates within the bracket (the same bracket that continues to break too frequently) and that too needs sufficient lubrication. I really spare no lube and I have a very smooth, fully functional Shadow Plus that has given me more than 2,220 trouble free miles. The perceptibly stiffer shift that some have noted on the Shadow Plus, almost evaporated after lubrication. It should also be noted that I reduced the torque on the clutch band from what is outlined in the Shimano maintenance instructions. I feel this is a significant contributor to my extended tensioner bracket life.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

DennisF said:


> Mine is still going strong at 1400 mi.
> 
> It was getting sticky again, and it was time to tighten the band, so I went to relube and adjust it and noticed a strange wear pattern. The black surface is worn thru at about a half-dozen places -- just narrow wear areas, not evenly like you would think.
> 
> ...


After seeing the picture of your clutch band, I finally got around to opening mine back up for some over due maintenance, lube and a lookie-see at my clutch band and it too has similar markings although slightly different. Pictured below is my clutch band.









Everything looked pretty good, but was due for a lube job.


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## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> My cam came lubricated, although not adequately. While I do not recall if the Shimano lube instructions specifically address lubing the cam, it seems only logical to consider doing so when you see mechanically how the tensioner and the cam function together. Metal to metal under tension while adding a rotational force needs something to reduce the friction.
> 
> View attachment 913586
> 
> ...


Thanks for the thoughtful response.
You've convinced me. I'm going to grease it.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

dan4jeepin said:


> Same part that most people seem to be breaking in this thread. I noticed it didn't feel any different with the clutch on or off and was opening it up to adjust it.
> View attachment 913466
> 
> 
> Probably just ride without the clutch until I can get the money to go SRAM.


Mine died today.

Same part broke.

Too bad as I have other Shimano RDs that are over 10 years old and still working.


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## ferguson65 (Jun 7, 2013)

Miker J said:


> Mine died today.
> 
> Same part broke.
> 
> Too bad as I have other Shimano RDs that are over 10 years old and still working.


And you can't get the part to fix it in a timely manner. Yes, I'm pissed. It's a $8 part that I can't buy anywhere local or online, Shimano told me even if I went to the LBS and tried to 2 day (a warranty) one on MY dime, it wouldn't happen. And they really don't care. Yes, it still works but it's annoying as hell.


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## Sweetness (May 12, 2005)

I've got two XT derailleurs with broken clutch adjustment screw brackets. My solution was to just flip the bracket around, and place the shorter broken part of the screw bracket on top (towards the outside of the bike) of the cam. crank down the screw a few turns, put the cover back on and problem solved. Feels like new. Good resistance in the cage, no chain slap, no lost chains with single narrow wide front, and quiet.


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## rglsr (Aug 9, 2004)

Similar positive results here, follow up from my post(s) six months ago. Following Shimano's recommendation I replaced the tensioner and slightly reduced the amount of torque on the clutch band. Tensioner holding up just fine.


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## Scottandhisdog (Feb 27, 2005)

So, my third XT clutch blew up on the second ride. I even had the clutch turned off when climbing, and had decreased the tension in the clutch in the hopes of making it last longer. No dice. So basically, I want to know if anyone has switched to SRAM and if so, has it cured the problem?


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

Only a few hundred of trouble free km with an slx shadow +, does anyone know if the clutch uses the same mechanism? Thx


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## Scottandhisdog (Feb 27, 2005)

So I just broke my third XT clutch mechanism, this year. This latest one broke after two rides. I even reduced the tension in the clutch, and turned it off when climbing. I've also installed a Rad Cage to hopefully reduce the stress on the RD. I'm running a 10 spd 11-40 cassette with Narrow Wide 34T front ring. The only other thing that I can think of is the Intense VPP linkage might have too much chain growth, therefore breaking the crappy sheet metal for this design. 

I'm wondering how different the XTR or Saint clutch really is, when compared to the XT version? I know that lots of other people have had the same issue, but what was your ultimate fix to the problem? Does the SRAM Type 2 work better with this suspension design? I've read other threads that they also have their issues. I don't want to have to replace the clutch after each ride, and I'm super frustrated with Shimano for releasing such a feeble unit.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

My shorty saint is at 400+ trouble free miles


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

mevnet said:


> Only a few hundred of trouble free km with an slx shadow +, does anyone know if the clutch uses the same mechanism? Thx


The clutch on the Deore, SLX, Zee, Saint, and XT are all identical - same part number. Only the XTR uses a slightly different design.


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## Scottandhisdog (Feb 27, 2005)

So are the XTR clutches less susceptible to breaking?


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Scottandhisdog said:


> So are the XTR clutches less susceptible to breaking?


Anecdotal evidence would suggest so, as there's less reports on forums like this of XTRs breaking. However, there's probably a lot more Deore/SLX/Zee/Saint/XT out there, so its not a fair comparison. A percentage failure rate is the only proper way to measure it, and only Shimano will know that.


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## Scottandhisdog (Feb 27, 2005)

Good point. I'm thinking of mounting a single ring chain guide, and giving up on the clutch system all together.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Scottandhisdog said:


> Good point. I'm thinking of mounting a single ring chain guide, and giving up on the clutch system all together.


Me too. The last thing I need is another sensitive bit of equipment on my bike that needs regular adjustment, lubrication, and can break. I never had chaindrop issues, so the clutch was just to stop the noise from chainslap, so I'll just put the old innertube back round the chainstay like I used to.

Another downside of the clutch that nobody really mentions, but I think people will start to notice once they've been using them a while, is it accelerates the wear of other drivetrain components because of the extra tension. I have to replace jockey wheels and gear cable outers much more often since I changed to clutch mechs, and I recently binned my SLX shifters and replaced them with XTR because the bushings in the shifter had worn after just a season of use! Maybe chain/chainwheel/cassette wear is increased too - though I haven't noticed it personally.

I'm a great fan of Shimano engineering on the whole, but I don't think they really thought through the clutch mechs properly - seems to have been a rushed attempt to come up with an answer to SRAMs type 2. The fact that they still offer non-clutch models speaks volumes to me. What other technology have they introduced where they still offer the 'old' version along side it?


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## Scottandhisdog (Feb 27, 2005)

The reason that I went with the clutch derailleur is because I couldn't find a good chain guide that worked with the large lower link on my Intense Carbine 29er. The Santa Cruz VPP lower link isn't as large. This question should probably be in a different thread, but has anyone had luck finding a guide that will work well on an Intense VPP bike?


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Here's an interesting development. The new XTR 9000 rear mech seems to have a modified cam bracket that's much more curved, rather than the abrupt angle that's been breaking on the current units. Seems Shimano have learned their lesson. Do you think they'll make a similarly modified part for retro-fitting to the current models - we can only hope!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

PerthMTB said:


> Here's an interesting development. The new XTR 9000 rear mech seems to have a modified cam bracket that's much more curved, rather than the abrupt angle that's been breaking on the current units.
> View attachment 914813


Unfortunately at this time, the 9000 is only available in an 11-speed. But what is interesting to me is that Shimano added an external allen bolt to adjust the XTR's clutch mechanism. Exactly what this means is unclear to me at this point.

I'm still a skeptic as to Shimano bettering the tension cage by increasing the radius on a systemic level. But, if this illustration is technically correct (and I assume that it is), then it does appear that the bend radius has been increased. Everything being equal, then this should represent a positive move forward in reducing the breakage as a result of a design flaw that incorporated a bend radius that was too small (tight) for the brittleness of the bracket material.

Where did this document illustration come from? Have a link?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Will that part or the defective replacement portion fit in an XT, part number, price and availability.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Cleared2land said:


> Unfortunately at this time, the 9000 is only available in an 11-speed.


Yes, but the important part is the bit you missed out of your quote...


> Seems Shimano have learned their lesson. Do you think they'll make a similarly modified part for retro-fitting to the current models - we can only hope!





Cleared2land said:


> But what is interesting to me is that Shimano added an external allen bolt to adjust the XTR's clutch mechanism. Exactly what this means is unclear to me at this point.


They've just made it possible to adjust the clutch tension and measure the torque without taking the cover off - makes sense.



Cleared2land said:


> Where did this document illustration come from? Have a link?


Its from the M9000 Dealer Manual here - http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/dm/DM-RD0004-01-ENG.pdf


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

eb1888 said:


> Will that part or the defective replacement portion fit in an XT, part number, price and availability.


No idea if it'll fit older clutch mechs. There are a lot of similarities between the M9000 clutch and the existing models - clutch drum and band look identical, and the cam unit similar enough to offer the tantalising possibility that it may fit an SLX or XT. But trying it is the only sure way, and I won't be in the position to do that for some time 

I can tell you the part number - its Y5PV98050, but a quick google failed to find any on offer. Not surprising as with the speed Shimano are rolling out new kit these days I find the spare parts availability takes a while to catch up. I had to wait six months before they made spare spokes available for my XT 29er wheels!

Meanwhile, my hope is that Shimano will re-design the existing cam units in a similar way, and make them available as a retro-fit part. I see the fact that the old cam units aren't available anywhere as a good sign - might be that Shimano are clearing out the old stock ready to launch a re-designed version!?!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Thanks Perth!

It does appear that the Cam Unit bracket has been re-designed for the better. Let's see if this new design trickles down to the existing line of Shadow+ derailleurs.


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## Sweetness (May 12, 2005)

I wouldn't give up on your broken XT clutches. Just flip the broken part around. See my previous post on the last page. Works perfectly, lots of tension on the clutch mechanism, no lost chains with a single ring up front, 42 tooth rear Oneup cog and RAD cages on both my bikes. I agree that one part was not designed very well, but the fix is easy and doesn't require that you send your derailleur away to get fixed. Works as well as when brand new. I've put a lot of KM's on both bikes and no issues with this fix. And it's free.


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## ferguson65 (Jun 7, 2013)

Universal Cycles has them back in stock now, so I have 2 on the way. If I get bored I'll go to the LBS and try to get it warrantied for another spare. Will have them next week, and I'll see if they look any different than the old one. What I can say, is that flipping the two sides, at least on SLX does not work. There are two different sized holes on the bracket, and it will only install correctly one way.


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

Sweetness said:


> I wouldn't give up on your broken XT clutches. Just flip the broken part around. See my previous post on the last page. Works perfectly, lots of tension on the clutch mechanism, no lost chains with a single ring up front, 42 tooth rear Oneup cog and RAD cages on both my bikes. I agree that one part was not designed very well, but the fix is easy and doesn't require that you send your derailleur away to get fixed. Works as well as when brand new. I've put a lot of KM's on both bikes and no issues with this fix. And it's free.


I want to give this a try tomorrow. Could you post a pic of what the realigned setup looks like?

.


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## Jamesm925 (Apr 17, 2013)

mine got all gunned up and failed over the course of a season. just got my mechanic buddy to order a new clutch mech and put it back together. it seemed to stop chain slap great for the first 2 rides. now it's back to chain slap city. I even put a new chain on yesterday thinking the stretched chain was causing the slapping. nope..didn't make a difference.


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## mtcrosser (Oct 24, 2006)

I have had a XTR + for about three four months now. I started dropping chains but the tension on the clutch was good (not to harsh but still stiff). I noticed that the pulley cage can be pulled forward slightly without engaging the clutch (free-play). This seems to be enough slack to cause my chain to drop. It is on a Santacruz Blur with VPP suspension. The VPP has chain growth throughout the travel. Every single bump on the trail causes the pulley cage to move forward (engaging the clutch). My opinion is that this action is prematurely wearing the clutch (creating play between the clutch rollers and shaft). The roller bearings must take up this free-play before locking on the shaft. I have also noticed that the clutch has a stick-slip sound as the rear wheel moves through the suspension travel (a pop..pop...pop is heard every time I hit a bump large enough to get past the free-play issue. I think this clutch mech is great for hardtails or suspension with zero chain growth. All others may wear out the mech. You would think Shimano would have researched this or at least made a disclaimer about usage on certain suspension designs. Is the Sram clutch susceptible to the same issue??
I have greased the clutch mech per Shimano manual but no change in performance.


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## Scottandhisdog (Feb 27, 2005)

I think that's caused my clutches to fail too. The Intense Carbine 29er VPP chain growth causes the clutch to break. I assumed it happened when I was climbing tech in the 40T, but the latest one failed at a lift served resort, and I wasn't anywhere near the 40T.


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## mtcrosser (Oct 24, 2006)

I called shimano today and the tech said they have lots of workers there riding all types of suspension designs and this is not a problem he has heard of (freeplay in the fore and aft direction as well as the popping noise). Going to get a new clutch and the special grease, then send the bad one in for warranty. This way I will not have to wait next time it happens (i am sure this is going to be an every 3~4 month replacement).


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

hi all. can someone post the link to the actual clutch mechanism for XTR M986 Clutch please? (I cant get shimano tech docs website to work). despite copious cleaning & lubrication attempts I cant get the clutch to stop creaking as the derailleur arms moves. It creaks regardless if the clutch is on, or off. Theres no marking on the inside of the arm, its on its lowest tension & with the clutch removed entirely the derailleur arm moves freely in the derailleur body.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

scant said:


> hi all. can someone post the link to the actual clutch mechanism for XTR M986 Clutch please?


http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/ev/EV-RD-M986-3430A.pdf


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

Tried the trick Sweetness suggested, worked for about a half of ride then failed. So I tried to fab the piece that breaks out of feeler gauge stainless, my heat treating chilled a bit to fast and the part was to brittle and shattered while fitting it. So I was looking for another way to band aid it up and found that if I take a 10mm nut and do a bit of grinding on it and rest it on the clutch, put the cover back on it works like a champ. Got lucky I guess on getting the size and shape of the nut just right to get the right amount of tension when camed. Simple, don't see anything that can break, I'll test it out on the TS100 and see how it hold up.



















.


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

Since I am more of a visual person I put together a video on the adjusting, repair and maintenance of the clutches for Deore/ SLX/ XT, I have used an RD-M675 for this. Enjoy


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## chuckeieio (Jun 2, 2013)

Mine just stopped working also. 500km or so. Opened it up and it looks normal. Likely clutch failure. booooo!


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

zon said:


> Tried the trick Sweetness suggested, worked for about a half of ride then failed. So I tried to fab the piece that breaks out of feeler gauge stainless, my heat treating chilled a bit to fast and the part was to brittle and shattered while fitting it. So I was looking for another way to band aid it up and found that if I take a 10mm nut and do a bit of grinding on it and rest it on the clutch, put the cover back on it works like a champ. Got lucky I guess on getting the size and shape of the nut just right to get the right amount of tension when camed. Simple, don't see anything that can break, I'll test it out on the TS100 and see how it hold up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well my "fix" works like a champ. Survived the Tahoe Sierra 100 and is still working fine. I'm not going to bother putting a Shimano part back in just to have it break again, my fix works perfectly fine. Maybe I should patent it and sell it to Shimano. 

.


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## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

zon said:


> Well my "fix" works like a champ. Survived the Tahoe Sierra 100 and is still working fine. I'm not going to bother putting a Shimano part back in just to have it break again, my fix works perfectly fine. Maybe I should patent it and sell it to Shimano.
> 
> .


Or sell them here for $5 bucks!


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

^ yeah fab some up I'll buy 2 at 5 bucks if it fits


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

Zon - did you grind the nut like a egg shape so it act like a cam or it just ended up looking like that ? Me I try with a rubber pallet, work so so


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

Inspired by Zon. Drop the rubber pallet and I carved a piece of wood the shape it need to fit in the corner, after a couple of try and with the help of a couple of thin slice of white pencil eraser, fit right in and work just fine. I don't see what can go wrong with this quick fix. who will probably be there till the end off time Thaanks Zon.


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

cadoretteboat said:


> Inspired by Zon. Drop the rubber pallet and I carved a piece of wood the shape it need to fit in the corner, after a couple of try and with the help of a couple of thin slice of white pencil eraser, fit right in and work just fine. I don't see what can go wrong with this quick fix. who will probably be there till the end off time Thaanks Zon.


Glad you got it to work. The nut I shaped looks more pair shaped than oval. I have about 400 miles on it now and its still working.

.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Really interesting fix, and I can clearly see a) why it works and b) that its unlikely to fail. The only downside is that you lose the ability to adjust the tension, no? But once you get that dialed, how often does one really need to adjust it??

Nice job.


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## Scottandhisdog (Feb 27, 2005)

How do you remove the wheel, since you can't decrease the tention in the clutch?


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Scottandhisdog said:


> How do you remove the wheel, since you can't decrease the tention in the clutch?


I'd wager the on/off switch works exactly the same as it did before. The amount of tension when the clutch is "on" would no longer be adjustable though (assuming I'm thinking about this correctly).


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Don't want to take anything away from what is a great ghetto fix, but my concern would be that it is the plastic case of the clutch assembly which is now taking all the force of the clutch tension and may eventually fail in the same way the (badly designed) metal bracket did.


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

I thought the same thing as PerthMTB but decide to do it anyway, maybe it will brake the cover eventualy but it scratch and chip my chainstay for sure without clucth so..


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

007 said:


> I'd wager the on/off switch works exactly the same as it did before. The amount of tension when the clutch is "on" would no longer be adjustable though (assuming I'm thinking about this correctly).


You are correct,, the lever works as before. As for adjusting, file more material off the cam lock (just named my part), to fine tune the tension. It isn't going to "wander" once you have it dialed so there should not need to be any future adjustments. You could however make up a few of the cam locks for different tensions for various riding conditions if that floats your boat but I not sure it is really necessary.

.


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

PerthMTB said:


> Don't want to take anything away from what is a great ghetto fix, but my concern would be that it is the plastic case of the clutch assembly which is now taking all the force of the clutch tension and may eventually fail in the same way the (badly designed) metal bracket did.


That is the weak spot for sure. But so far it has held nicely with over 400 miles on it including the abuse delivered by the Tahoe Sierra 100 and a bunch of the Tahoe south shore downhill fun. They beat the crap out of the mechanism and I see no signs of failure. I think if the shape is just right it spreads the force out over a fairly large surface area of the case.
I know one thing for sure, if I had the Shimano part still installed I would be on my 3rd or 4th replacement by now.

.


----------



## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

Your steel bolt is a major weight problem. go carbon.


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

cadoretteboat said:


> Your steel bolt is a major weight problem. go carbon.


Weighed in at .89723 grams. 

.


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## capoz77 (Sep 14, 2006)

I was about to drop the money on a 10 speed overall for the Santa Cruz Blur, but on reading this thread VPP + Shadow + clutch don't sound a good combo?


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

It's a must have. Yes the clutch work hard, but It keep things way silent,
Turning down the tension can be a great help. Also the 2015 XTR get the new design piece.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

capoz77 said:


> I was about to drop the money on a 10 speed overall for the Santa Cruz Blur, but on reading this thread VPP + Shadow + clutch don't sound a good combo?


I have a SC Blur LT and am on my 3rd XT Shadow+ (which I think is already trashed). I'm running proper chain length, have adjusted the tension in the clutch, and made sure its lubed properly. I've given up at this point.

Edit: I should add that I ride some seriously rocky terrain. I haven't seen buff single-track in years.


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

I applied the Zon fix. (Wood edition)


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

cadoretteboat said:


> I applied the Zon fix. (Wood edition)


The Zon fix...do you prefer Teak, Maple or oak for your fix?


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

I took a wood cloth peg, easy to carve. Don't tell no one, but, I am planning to get rich with a carbon version.


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## capoz77 (Sep 14, 2006)

007 said:


> I have a SC Blur LT and am on my 3rd XT Shadow+ (which I think is already trashed). I'm running proper chain length, have adjusted the tension in the clutch, and made sure its lubed properly. I've given up at this point.
> 
> Edit: I should add that I ride some seriously rocky terrain. I haven't seen buff single-track in years.


I wonder if SRAM is the way to go LOL


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

capoz77 said:


> I was about to drop the money on a 10 speed overall for the Santa Cruz Blur, but on reading this thread VPP + Shadow + clutch don't sound a good combo?


Have used SLX and XT both with same mechanism, no issues with either, might depend on the type of riding you do. Have X9 type 2 on my other bike, seems to be holding fine as well, clutch is as effective


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## classicmoto (Oct 5, 2010)

For reference, this is a new individual part available from Shimano. It has been changed with a larger radius at the bends (where the original part fails) and some of the relief cut-outs have been reshaped and made smaller. We'll see if it is an improvement.

Hope that helps someone.

Cheers!


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

Still going strong aft 800+ miles.


.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

But it's not made from wood.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I suspect the radius hasn't changed and it's the same old part.


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## classicmoto (Oct 5, 2010)

Cleared2land said:


> I suspect the radius hasn't changed and it's the same old part.


No, the new part has been changed. See revised description in my original post.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Way cool! Did you compare this to your old one?


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## classicmoto (Oct 5, 2010)

Cleared2land said:


> Way cool! Did you compare this to your old one?


Yes, holding both in hand the differences are obvious.


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## chuckeieio (Jun 2, 2013)

Mine was warrantied with my less than a year old Specialized. Hopefully the new one lasts


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

> Yes, holding both in hand the differences are obvious.


Oooo! Pictures please.

However, I notice the new cam unit pictured above has the same part number as the old breakable one. That's gonna make it real difficult for us to know whether we're buying old or new stock :madman:
Still, good on Shimano for finally fixing the problem...


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

PerthMTB said:


> However, I notice the new cam unit pictured above has the same part number as the old breakable one. That's gonna make it real difficult for us to know whether we're buying old or new stock


Given the old supply has been difficult to obtain lately, perhaps all that is available is the upgraded part. An inquiry might be the best assurance before placing the order.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Cleared2land said:


> An inquiry might be the best assurance before placing the order.


But there's the problem - how is a retailer with thousands of items in stock from different manufacturers expected to know if this particular part is the old one or new one if the part number is identical! You might have some chance with a 'real' bike shop being able to spot the difference, but an online retailer is basically a warehousing operation, and the pickers and packers just blindly follow part numbers and bar codes and have little to no idea what's actually inside the packet they send you!



Cleared2land said:


> Given the old supply has been difficult to obtain lately, perhaps all that is available is the upgraded part.


That, I think, is our only hope.

But I'm still eagerly awaiting some photos from Classicmoto comparing old & new side by side so we can see the actual difference!!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Enough time has passed...Classicmoto has departed the scene. Anyone else been able to confirm the design change?


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## Ray Dockrey (Feb 23, 2006)

My 2014 Giant Trance 3 has the Deore Shadow Plus. The clutch broke in it and the derailleur was replaced under warranty about two months ago. I opened up the new one and it indeed had the new designed part in it.


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## armourbl (May 5, 2012)

Is there any easy way to tell if I received the newest version of the XT, with the improved parts? I just ordered a unit and want to do all that I can to prevent an issue. Plan to open it up while new and lubricate and set tension on the low side.

ben


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

The new tensioner radius on the tension cage should have a notably larger radius that the old part. Just compare it to your old one. It should be obvious.


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## armourbl (May 5, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> The new tensioner radius on the tension cage should have a notably larger radius that the old part. Just compare it to your old one. It should be obvious.


Ah, but my old XT didn't have the clutch...

ben


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## gumby. (Mar 11, 2013)

...then compare it to the one in the picture at the top of the page.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

armourbl said:


> Ah, but my old XT didn't have the clutch...
> 
> ben


Ok, I didn't read that correctly. Two options...get online and look at the new illustrated parts catalog and compare yours to the new ones shown. Or, take a good photo of your new tensioner and put it on here. We'll take a look at it.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Just doing a follow-up. Were you ever able confirm if you have the new clutch tensioner bracket?


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

classicmoto said:


> View attachment 943281
> 
> 
> For reference, this is a new individual part available from Shimano. It has been changed with a larger radius at the bends (where the original part fails) and some of the relief cut-outs have been reshaped and made smaller. We'll see if it is an improvement.
> ...


Thanks. Anybody knows where to order this part on line?


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

Let me Google that for you. 

SHIMANO spare part Y-5Y198120, RD-M786 CAM UNIT || Shimano Code: Y5Y1

In stock. Ends up being 10.88 euro shipped to USA.

.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

zon said:


> Let me Google that for you.
> 
> SHIMANO spare part Y-5Y198120, RD-M786 CAM UNIT || Shimano Code: Y5Y1
> 
> ...


Touche! I was hoping for something more local. Oh well. Ordering from Germany.


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

zorg said:


> Touche! I was hoping for something more local. Oh well. Ordering from Germany.


Yeah I end up ordering tons of stuff from across the pond. Seems to be the only place to find stuff in stock. I have Chain Reaction on speed dial. 

.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Given the part number remains the same as the old part, how would we know that we are getting the new, redesigned part as apposed to the old one?


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

So my clutch broke for the second time last week, and I'm going to be shopping for a couple more cam units.

Before I order, can someone please post a picture of the new part that shows it really is different to the old one, as I'm afraid the picture Classicmoto posted above doesn't look any different to me, although it doesn't help that the side that breaks is behind in the picture.


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

PerthMTB said:


> So my clutch broke for the second time last week, and I'm going to be shopping for a couple more cam units.
> 
> ...


And my fab'd up solution is still working like a champ.

.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Your fabricated, filed down nut? That's still going well?


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> Your fabricated, filed down nut? That's still going well?


Yep,, hasn't missed a beat. I will not be swapping it out for the Shimano part, no need to.

.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Something to be said about simplicity. Necessity is the mother of invention.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

zon said:


> And my fab'd up solution is still working like a champ.


Ha! I hear what you're saying, but I'm willing to replace a $5 part every six months if that's what it takes for the ability to adjust the torque and to switch it on/off to remove the wheel or chain, which your solution - good as it is - cannot do.

Of course, the most desirable solution is for Shimano to come out with a re-designed part which doesn't break, and I'm still waiting for photographic evidence from someone that this is the case.....


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

PerthMTB said:


> Ha! I hear what you're saying, but I'm willing to replace a $5 part every six months if that's what it takes for the ability to adjust the torque and to switch it on/off to remove the wheel or chain, which your solution - good as it is - cannot do.


Oh I still can switch it on an off, it functions just as the OEM part, without the breakage. My part just applies static tension. Also, it is adjustable in a way, I just file off a bit more material to loosen it up or make a larger one to tighten it. That said, I seem to have hit the sweet spot with this one,, works exactly like I want it. No muss, no fuss. 

.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

While everyone continues to seek that elusive $5 part in stock...Zon's part is always in stock at the closest hardware store, if not already available in the loose nuts and bolts box in the garage.


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> While everyone continues to seek that elusive $5 part in stock...Zon's part is always in stock at the closest hardware store, if not already available in the loose nuts and bolts box in the garage.


Someone with a CNC machine or a 3D metal printer could chunk out a thousand of these an hour and make a bit of dinero.

.


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## molsen234 (Aug 2, 2013)

zon said:


> Let me Google that for you.
> 
> SHIMANO spare part Y-5Y198120, RD-M786 CAM UNIT || Shimano Code: Y5Y1
> 
> ...


Well they are currently out of stock, so I guess if there is a new version of the part, that is what they will have when restocked 

I was reading this with great interest as I am currently buying parts for a new frame up build. Last time I went with the non-plus version (XT) due to this thread amongst others, but that bike was stolen last month. This time I think I'll try the plus version, seeing the part does look like it has better corners. I did not order the derailleur yet, waiting for the next salary to come in first.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

PerthMTB said:


> Of course, the most desirable solution is for Shimano to come out with a re-designed part which doesn't break, and I'm still waiting for photographic evidence from someone that this is the case.....


Ok so I got my replacement part in the post today from Germany, so looks like I'm now able to answer my own question 

First photo - new cam unit in packaging. This store was out of stock three weeks ago, so this must be new stock, even though as I pointed out above Shimano have retained the same part number:-









Second photo - rear (as fitted in clutch). Shows that on the rear of the part (where it was breaking) they have indeed modified the shape and size of the cutout:-









Third photo - front (as fitted in clutch). Shows that on the front they have also slightly reduced the width of the cutout so the metal is thicker:-









Fourth photo - side profile. Shows that the radius of the bend in the corners is more curved on the new part, versus abrupt 90 degree angle on the old one. I think this change will make the most difference:-









Note: I also measured the thickness of the metal but both were 0.8mm so no difference there. Shimano could also have changed the mix of alloys or heat treatment used in making this piece, to make it stronger and/or less brittle, but I've no way of knowing that from appearance alone.

Fifth photo - for completeness here's a broken cam unit to remind people where the point of failure was:-









So, yes Shimano have listened and re-designed the part that has been causing so many failures :thumbsup: Sorry for doubting those who posted above that this was the case - but I needed to see it with my own eyes! Hopefully this has fixed the problem once & for all.

Waits for reports to come in of new cam units breaking.... :lol:


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Very interesting.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Well, I was fitting the new cam unit to my derailleur today and I noticed something interesting...

Remember the picture that showed Shimano had changed the size & shape of the cutout on the rear of the bracket, just under the corner where they've been breaking:-









I was wondering why they chose that shape of hole, and if that was the weak spot causing all the breakages why not just do away with the hole altogether and make it solid?

It turns out there is a raised lug on the body of the clutch mechanism which fits into this hole, presumably to position the cam unit properly, and prevent it moving around in operation. It's highlighted by the red arrow in this picture:-









The rectangular hole in the old cam bracket used to fit over it like this:-









And the trapezium shaped hole in the new cam bracket fits like this:-









So, now I can see why they picked that shape - its the smallest they can make the hole and still have the new part fit the existing derailleur body. Its probably just a side benefit that its a more snug fit than the original design.

Also, just a heads up if you're replacing the cam unit - make sure the new cam unit seats down properly onto that lug before you put the clutch cover back on. I've noticed it doesn't always go on all the way, and can sometimes take a bit of thumb pressure and wiggling it about for it to seat properly.

Anyway, probably not much interest to most  unless you like the clever little design details like me, but I thought I'd share it anyway :smilewinkgrin:


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Excellent reports coupled with quality photos Perth!

And your last sentence...it's the little things that I notice and so do you. Thanks!

Hopefully this is the final fix for an otherwise excellent derailleur. This thread began in June of 2013 and I'm happy to see that Shimano followed through with correcting a flawed design. Great product with a minor, but vexing flaw. While this took quite a while to rectify, it still happened actually faster than I expected. The wheels of big industry don't always move at the pace that we, the consumers and end users would like to see, but they did move.

I now have about 9,800 miles on my Shimano Shadow clutch tensioner (cam unit) bracket (old design) with ZERO failures. I'm guessing I'm just one of the lucky ones. The biggest single change that I made was to reduce the torque on the tensioner and ensure proper lubrication. Perhaps that made the difference. However, I will now order one of the new tensioners and get it installed. My old one served me well and will become a backup, although hopefully, I'll never use it.

Again, I want to thank Perth for an excellent report and follow-up...very well done!

Rep worthy indeed.

*Quick edit...Perth, I tried to rep you again, but you know how this system works...gotta wait a little longer. I'll keep trying cause you deserve the rep! Thanks!*


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I don't have a broken clutch RD, but if mine ever does break I'll know more about how to fix it. The horror stories almost kept me on a 2x system. Glad I took the gamble.

Repped.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

ARandomBiker said:


> The horror stories almost kept me on a 2x system. Glad I took the gamble.


Horror stories? Gamble?

Hmmm...perhaps a little exaggerated.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Different strokes for different folks. An XT RD is a pretty penny to have a known weak point in the integral operating mechanism to fail. And fail frequently enough that I have seen threads discussing it on multiple boards. 
You even said in the post above mine that your lack of failure might be you getting a 'lucky good one' ( paraphrasing)

Shrug.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

A flaw? Unquestionably correct. 

The ratio of failures to total production numbers is probably small, although statistically significant. But, we need to define statistically significant.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Thanks guys, glad you found it interesting. And I'd second what Cleared2land said about still checking the clutch tension regularly and keeping it lubricated, even if you do have the new cam unit in there. I found the lube between the clutch drum and friction band tends to dry up over time and that increases the tension.


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## Domester101 (Mar 21, 2015)

Hey all. 
Thanks for the information on this thread.

My RD clutch failed in a way that is not explained in this thread. 

Rather than the clutch tensioning device snapping (as pictured many times upthread)
the clutch roller bearing has desinigrated. 

it came apart in 2 pieces when i pulled it off and was quite dirty. 

Im assuming all I need to get back on the trail is the Shimano part Y5Y198020
I cant find it anywhere online and my LBS says that its out of stock on the Shimano site.

Where can I find this part as I dont want to buy a new derailer when the replacement part is only $13

Thanks!


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Guys, if any of your broken clutch derailleurs are less than two years old, and Shimano is out of stock on clutches, they should replace the entire derailleur. They did for me, and I'm nobody special.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Domester101 said:


> My RD clutch failed in a way that is not explained in this thread.
> 
> Rather than the clutch tensioning device snapping (as pictured many times upthread)
> the clutch roller bearing has desinigrated. it came apart in 2 pieces when i pulled it off and was quite dirty.


Can you post some photos?

I would be interested in seeing what you've described, because I've not seen or heard of this problem. Not knowing exactly what failed other that your description, I suspect that you can continue to ride until a part is available. It's just a clutch mechanism to minimize chain slap. if you're resourceful and mechanical, you might be able to fabricate something to temporarily replace the cam.

My assumption that the failed part is the rotating cam (in green)?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

kosmo said:


> Guys, if any of your broken clutch derailleurs are less than two years old, and Shimano is out of stock on clutches, they should replace the entire derailleur. They did for me, and I'm nobody special.


That too is another option, but from my personal experience in dealing with Shimano and warranty replacement is that you have to send in the warranty part and wait for a replacement. That can be very disappointing and not very quick. I try an avoid warranty replacement if at all possible.

In this case, you can prolly continue to ride until a replacement part is available.


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## Domester101 (Mar 21, 2015)

ok, update:

Here is the piece that failed...

























from the outside unit looked the same, but when pulled off it came off the spindle in two pieces. There are no roller bearings to be found anywhere!

The rubber gasket/o-ring was missing so I am suspecting poor maintenance by the previous owner.

This specific bike is new to me so I am just going though it all looking for things that need to be maintained. It is a 2014 model.

located in Australia

Thanks all


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Ok, you need the Shimano Stabilizer Unit (Y5Y198020) that includes the cam unit and the clutch assembly (illustrated below) that trashed on yours. You also need the P-cover packing (cover housing seal).

Looks like it has been subject to water damage and neglect. I would order what you needs and get it cleaned up, correctly lubricated and get back on the trail. Actually, you can ride without it, you just won't have any clutch operation to minimize chain slap.


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## Domester101 (Mar 21, 2015)

So is there anywhere online that has these in stock?


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## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

*Just for grins...*

I pulled the cover on my 2100 mile November 2013 XT build and all is good. I did remove the clutch shortly after new and removed the green lube and re-lubed with Shimano's recommended Y04120800 Internal Hub Grease. I would add that the trails I frequent are pretty easy on all the components.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ That chain and sprocket look way too clean. Do you really ride that?

The only time mine looked like that was the first day before first ride.


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## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

yeah pretty much...2200 miles since new November '13. Finish Line Ceramic Wax helps keep it that way. No roots, rocks or mud, just decent elevation with gentle rolling sandy hills. Pretty much the perfect environment for a hard tail.


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## wkumtrider (Dec 27, 2007)

I just bought a Trek Fuel EX 8 and it has the XT Shadow Plus de. Hopefully it has the updated clutch parts. Only have two rides so far due to all the rain. I will have to keep an eye on it. Thanks to all those that provided info in this thread.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

If so inclined, it wouldn't take but a moment to open the cover and see what you have.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

subscribed, i broke the clutch too and want to make sure i get the right part.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

We have two of these broken here. One on my yeti sb66 and another on the wife's sb75. Both have broken at the hole that the screw passes through, not at the bend.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

terrible said:


> We have two of these broken here. One on my yeti sb66 and another on the wife's sb75. Both have broken at the hole that the screw passes through, not at the bend.


That's unfortunate. Are the broken cam brackets the new type or old (as per photos above)? It would be very unfortunate if by strengthening the corners on the bracket Shimano has just transferred the point of failure to the next weakest location!

Also, I have to ask - have you adjusted the screw to very high torque or something? It just seems unusual that this is the first time I've heard of this type of failure, and both yours have done it!

Thanks.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

PerthMTB said:


> That's unfortunate. Can I ask whether the broken cam brackets are the new type or old (as per photos above)? It would be very unfortunate if by strengthening the corners on the bracket Shimano has just transferred the point of failure to the next weakest location!
> 
> Also, I have to ask - had you adjusted the screw to very high torque or something? It just seems unusual that this is the first time I've heard of this type of failure, and both yours have done it!


This is an issue that I've not heard of.

I was wondering the same thing...over torqued adjuster?

I'm also interest like Perth in knowing if this a new tensioner bracket or an old one.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Both are unmolested. Didnt even know there was a way to adjust the clutch until I started searching on how to fix it. As you can see from the photo both broke in the same spot. These are both older versions from what I can tell. Also, was not able to get the new version parts but if your local shop is a QBP distributer the older parts are pretty cheap (under 10$). I bought half a dozen of them just to keep us going until something else on these breaks.



Pick of the bikes just for the fun of it.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I can't really tell from you photo's, but it appears that you have the old cam tensioner bracket. The new one's (illustrated below) have a larger radius on the bend of the upper bracket near where yours broke.

This is the first time I have seen a failure at that point of the bracket.


----------



## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

terrible said:


> Both are unmolested. Didnt even know there was a way to adjust the clutch until I started searching on how to fix it. As you can see from the photo both broke in the same spot. These are both older versions from what I can tell. Also, was not able to get the new version parts but if your local shop is a QBP distributer the older parts are pretty cheap (under 10$). I bought half a dozen of them just to keep us going until something else on these breaks.
> 
> Pick of the bikes just for the fun of it.


Nice bikes!

Congratulations - it does seem like you've discovered a new point of failure on the cam bracket. Hopefully it won't happen on the new ones, and while I haven't noticed any particular modification around the screw hole, at the time I did the comparison I didn't know they failed there so wasn't looking for it!

Also worth keeping the clutch lubricated in future as I have a hunch that them running dry contributes to failure, though I can't prove it.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Wouldn't lubricating it lessen the affect of the clutch?


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

terrible said:


> Wouldn't lubricating it lessen the affect of the clutch?


Nope, below is a re-post from from earlier in this thread. In fact, if you've got the free time, go back to the beginning of this thread and see some history of cam tensioner bracket failures and the resolve to keep them working.



addATX said:


> The cam units come totally dry. Are you sure they are supposed to have grease/lubrication??


My cam came lubricated, although not adequately. While I do not recall if the Shimano lube instructions specifically address lubing the cam, it seems only logical to consider doing so when you see mechanically how the tensioner and the cam function together. Metal to metal under tension while adding a rotational force needs something to reduce the friction.

View attachment 913586


*Additionally,* I might add that the cam rotates within the bracket (the same bracket that continues to break too frequently) and that too needs sufficient lubrication. I really spare no lube and I have a very smooth, fully functional Shadow Plus that has given me more than 2,220 trouble free miles. The perceptibly stiffer shift that some have noted on the Shadow Plus, almost evaporated after lubrication. It should also be noted that I reduced the torque on the clutch band from what is outlined in the Shimano maintenance instructions. I feel this is a significant contributor to my extended tensioner bracket life.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)




----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> I have a very smooth, fully functional Shadow Plus that has given me more than 2,220 trouble free miles. The perceptibly stiffer shift that some have noted on the Shadow Plus, almost evaporated after lubrication.


As an interesting note...the same derailleur that I referred to above has now survived more than 8,500 trouble-free miles with no failures and it still has the old clutch tensioner installed.

It has continued to get regular preventative maintenance and ongoing lubrication.


----------



## Makoto (Sep 10, 2007)

I noticed some chain slap on my last two rides. I opened up my derailleur to find it has failed again. I originally purchased my derailleur back in November 2012. One year later, November 2013 the cam failed and Shimano replaced my entire derailleur under warranty. Fast forward nearly two years and the same piece that failed the original poster has failed me for a second time. 

I am not sure if my warranty replacement had the new cam mechanism or the original, but regardless, it has failed me again. I put a call in to my LBS to get their input. My LBS is contacting Shimano to see if I have any warranty recourse or if I have to just order the new cam part mentioned recently in this thread. I asked my LBS to propose crediting me towards an XTR mech as I do not believe they have this issue. I will post up my results.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Makoto said:


> I am not sure if my warranty replacement had the new cam mechanism or the original, but regardless, it has failed me again.


Take a quick look at some of the illustrations above and you should be able to determine if you have an old or new styled tensioner. I strongly suspect that you have the old, but it will be easy to determine. I have not heard of any new Shimano Stabilizer Unit (Y5Y198020) failures. Not sure that you really need to upgrade to an XTR unless that's really what you want to do.


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## Makoto (Sep 10, 2007)

Cleared2land said:


> Take a quick look at some of the illustrations above and you should be able to determine if you have an old or new styled tensioner. I strongly suspect that you have the old, but it will be easy to determine. I have not heard of any new Shimano Stabilizer Unit (Y5Y198020) failures. Not sure that you really need to upgrade to an XTR unless that's really what you want to do.


Thanks for your insight. I only proposed an XTR mech. as I do not care to deal with this issue any longer, so if the new part addresses this failure I will be pleased!


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## sohnice (Sep 5, 2010)

Makoto said:


> Thanks for your insight. I only proposed an XTR mech. as I do not care to deal with this issue any longer, so if the new part addresses this failure I will be pleased!


M985/6 XTR cam unit cannot be replace, if the cam unit is faulty you have to change the whole derailleur.


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## Makoto (Sep 10, 2007)

Just a quick follow up. With the help of my LBS, Shimano sent me the new cam unit free of charge. I installed it and have a few rides on it. Let's hope this one holds up a bit better than my last two!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Did you happen to get the updated and re-designed cam unit? I'm assuming that you did.


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## gottarex (Aug 28, 2009)

Cleared2land said:


> View attachment 995807
> 
> 
> View attachment 995808


How did you remove the clutch? I only managed to remove the friction spring and don't know how to remove the clutch unit. My Shimano Zee was having problems this weekend. Opened it up and it was filthy. I tried to lube the friction spring area but when I switch it on, it feels like there's binding inside and it doesn't return back. But when off position, it works fine. I just ordered a replacement stabilizer unit but still don't know how to remove that clutch.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

gottarex said:


> How did you remove the clutch? I only managed to remove the friction spring and don't know how to remove the clutch unit. My Shimano Zee was having problems this weekend. Opened it up and it was filthy. I tried to lube the friction spring area but when I switch it on, it feels like there's binding inside and it doesn't return back. But when off position, it works fine. I just ordered a replacement stabilizer unit but still don't know how to remove that clutch.


When you remove the clutch mechanism cover, it should be clean in there. Check and see if your pre-formed "O" ring that seals the cover is not damaged or is even present. It sounds like dirt and water has found its way into the mechanism.

Removing the 'clutch' is easy. Just slide the cam tensioner unit and the clutch mechanism straight off of their mounts. They can be pulled off together. No tools necessary to do this part. The clutch mechanism is mounted on the cage pivot shaft. Once you have them off, the cam tensioner and the clutch mechanism will separate from each other.

To remove the clutch unit from the friction spring, insert a screwdriver to spread the friction spring apart enough to push the clutch out.

It can be a little tricky to get them back on because of the clutch bearings in the clutch mechanism, but with some patience, you'll figure it out.


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## gottarex (Aug 28, 2009)

Cleared2land said:


> When you remove the clutch mechanism cover, it should be clean in there. Check and see if your pre-formed "O" ring that seals the cover is not damaged or is even present. It sounds like dirt and water has found its way into the mechanism.
> 
> Removing the 'clutch' is easy. Just slide the cam tensioner unit and the clutch mechanism straight off of their mounts. They can be pulled off together. No tools necessary to do this part. The clutch mechanism is mounted on the cage pivot shaft. Once you have them off, the cam tensioner and the clutch mechanism will separate from each other.
> 
> ...


Actually had this Zee rear derr on my DH bike for 2 years now. Ridden a few times in rain and mud and only seized up on my over the weekend for the 1st time. O-ring is in tact, no cracks or nothing. Cam tensioner is still in 1 piece. I just removed these parts, cleaned it up and lubed and assembled it back together. I tried to remove the clutch unit but it was hard to remove. Tried to pry it up with a flathead but didn't want to overdo and break anything. I did order replacement parts so I'm hoping to just update those parts. So basically the clutch unit just pulls straight up right?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Ok, I see what you're talking about. It looks like your clutch bearings have seized on the cage pivot shaft. Go up and look at posts #319 and #323. That is close to what happened to you, but the above post had the bearing cage separate from the bearings. 

You might try and soak the clutch mechanism in WD-40 or some other penetrating oil to remove that. A replacement clutch mechanism is in order.


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## gottarex (Aug 28, 2009)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^ Ok, I see what you're talking about. It looks like your clutch bearings have seized on the cage pivot shaft. Go up and look at posts #319 and #323. That is close to what happened to you, but the above post had the bearing cage separate from the bearings.
> 
> You might try and soak the clutch mechanism in WD-40 or some other penetrating oil to remove that. A replacement clutch mechanism is in order.


This explains why my derailleur doesn't move once I switch the lever to ON position. I've already ordered the replacement parts so hopefully soaking in wd40 works. For those that are still searching for the replacement stabilizer unit. I got the link below

https://www.bikeman.com/DP9100.html


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

Is there an easy way to get a replacement gasket for the clutch cover? Or something that would work well enough?
Mine seems to have wandered off


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Good question...good luck

This might be your part - Shimano Y5Y219000 P cover packing


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

Maybe use a small rubber band


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

It's pre-formed "O" ring. Small rubber band wouldn't work.


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## gottarex (Aug 28, 2009)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^ Ok, I see what you're talking about. It looks like your clutch bearings have seized on the cage pivot shaft. Go up and look at posts #319 and #323. That is close to what happened to you, but the above post had the bearing cage separate from the bearings.
> 
> You might try and soak the clutch mechanism in WD-40 or some other penetrating oil to remove that. A replacement clutch mechanism is in order.


Thanks for all your help. My derr works like new once again. Just swapped over the replacement parts and now works like a charm


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

gottarex said:


> Thanks for all your help. My derr works like new once again. Just swapped over the replacement parts and now works like a charm


Is the replacement procedure fairly straight-forward? 
I've got the same issue going on.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Yes, it's a five minute affair. Quite simple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

upstateSC-rider said:


> Is the replacement procedure fairly straight-forward?
> I've got the same issue going on.


Very straight forward, very easy replacement task. Go back and read some earlier posts and look at the photos and you'll grasp it. It's sometimes a little tricky getting the tensioner and the clutch drum back on together because of the clutch bearings, but it's no big deal.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Does anyone know if the clutch mech has been improved for the current gen, or is it the same ongoing issue?

I'm looking at a new bike with an XT drivetrain, but not if this is still an ongoing issue.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

The cam tensioner has been redesigned. Go back to post #310


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

OrenPerets said:


> Yes, it's a five minute affair. Quite simple.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Cleared2land said:


> Very straight forward, very easy replacement task. Go back and read some earlier posts and look at the photos and you'll grasp it. It's sometimes a little tricky getting the tensioner and the clutch drum back on together because of the clutch bearings, but it's no big deal.


Thanks guys.



Cleared2land said:


> The cam tensioner has been redesigned. Go back to post #310


Awesome, I had that question too.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

ac1000 said:


> Is there an easy way to get a replacement gasket for the clutch cover? Or something that would work well enough?
> Mine seems to have wandered off


Form-a-Gasket or silicone glue maybe....


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

ac1000 said:


> Is there an easy way to get a replacement gasket for the clutch cover? Or something that would work well enough?
> Mine seems to have wandered off





DennisF said:


> Form-a-Gasket or silicone glue maybe....


That's a little ghetto. Just order the correct part.

If I was in a real bind, and wanted to ride while keeping everything inside protected, I would consider a thick marine grease in the pre-formed "O" ring channel until the correct Shimano packing came in.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

Props to all of the great info in this thread. :thumbsup:
I got the revised part from Bikeman in no time at all and installed it in less than 5 minutes. As someone else mentioned, factory lube was sparse so I added some between the large outer spring and inner clutch assy.
One question though...Is there a certain initial setting the adjuster is set to or is it just left at the factory setting, the way it comes out of the package?
Thanks.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

You should adjust it.

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...ken-xt-shadow-plus-859272-4.html#post10915929


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

My old-style tensioner on my hardtail finally broke after about 5100 miles. A buddy trashed his derailleur in a crash and gave it to me. It had the new-style tensioner that I used to replace mine.

The switch lever has failed twice. The plastic handle eventually breaks off even though I grab it at the back so as not to tork it sideways.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

I know it is not an XT or SLX I have now as while I broke a couple of clutches (december 2013) I changed my Shadow plus to an XTR before Shimano changed the breaking part. 

It is now almost 4 years old and without more than a bit of oil it has been functioning perfect.


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can point me to an answer to my problem since I've been searching for a couple of weeks.O have a Rd m8000 gs, it's about 6 months old with 1500+ miles on it.

Problem: Clutch does not stay in the "on" position. The lever never actually "clicks" for lack of better term into the on position. It gets hard to push down, but turns off in rock gardens, rough terrain, drops, etc.

Things I've tried:
LBS
Re grease the pivot bearing
Tighten and loosen the clutch tension screw
Replace the p pivot and clutch mechanism

The problem still persists.

Any ideas? I really wanted to put my extra cash towards a Garmin instead of a new Rd...Thanks for any help!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Your clutch tension is too loose and not properly adjusted.


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

Cleared2land said:


> Your clutch tension is too loose and not properly adjusted.


I've tightened the tension screw to Shimanos recommend torque, and past until it was too hard to engage the lever (then backed off) The issue persists. No matter the tension the clutch never engages, it just gets harder or easier to set on the on position. My slx derailleur has a definite "on" position, almost like a click when moving to the on position. With the xt, it's like the lever can't rotate enough for the flat part of the clutch to "engage" if that makes sense.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Hmmm?

Have you ever opened the cover and removed the cam unit? The cam can get rotated in the stabilizer unit where the cam is 180 degrees from where it should be. In older manuals, they point this out as a caution when reinstalling. But I don't think the M8000 or M9000 manuals outline this.

I don't know if this is your issue, but it's easy enough to confirm.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

Ksanman said:


> I've tightened the tension screw to Shimanos recommend torque, and past until it was too hard to engage the lever (then backed off) The issue persists. No matter the tension the clutch never engages, it just gets harder or easier to set on the on position. My slx derailleur has a definite "on" position, almost like a click when moving to the on position. With the xt, it's like the lever can't rotate enough for the flat part of the clutch to "engage" if that makes sense.


There are four ways you can install the adjustment cam but only one correct way. Correctly or turned 180 degrees wrong. Correct side up or upside down.
With the clutch switch off the cut in the notch by the rectangular pin should be facing away from the axle.
The bracket hole should not be facing you.
Get it wrong and the clutch will behave as you've described.

I took this picture last time I serviced it in the correct position.


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

Ok, you guys had me second guessing myself. I took the clutch apart and took some pictures.















Everything is normal. I noticed that when the lever was engaged, the part that creates the tension wasn't rotating all the way. The flat part was never resting against the tension band, just the edge. So I took it off to investigate.














I noticed this post was bent. I'm not sure if it is supposed to be that way. It looks bent torsionally. I tried bending it back several different ways. I got a lot closer to having the clutch actually engage, but it seems like a lost cause. That thing really got bent and I'm scared to break the post. It feels really fragile. I think I might need to live with the clutch popping open and try to get it warrantied over winter unless you guys have any suggestions.

Sorry for the crappy photos, my phone wouldn't focus on the clutch. What happen to quality cameras?


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Had same issue on mine. I took apart found tension spring intact. Installed new one with no change. Put a C-guide on bike and still have non clutching derailleur. :/


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> Hmmm?
> 
> Have you ever opened the cover and removed the cam unit? The cam can get rotated in the stabilizer unit where the cam is 180 degrees from where it should be. In older manuals, they point this out as a caution when reinstalling. But I don't think the M8000 or M9000 manuals outline this.
> 
> I don't know if this is your issue, but it's easy enough to confirm.


Was this to me or ksan? I obviously took cover off and removed tension spring that's how I knew it was intact. I was unaware of 180 rotation at the time. Just put it back together and figured I'd been using clutch-less derailleurs for 15 years wasn't going to worry. Since then my other bikes have had clutch 10/11's. May just pull gears off the older one and turn into an SS anyway.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Ksan's cam looks correct from the images. 

You can tell by flipping the clutch on, and observing how the cam rotates counter-clockwise to increases tension on the clutch/chain stabilizer. I think this is what JMac is calling the tension spring.


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

Quick update. I was tired of riding clutchless down in St George today, so I took my clutch off and bent the post the cam sits on with some force. Fixed the issue. I found I was putting too much tension on the tension screw. Now shifting is money, no need to warranty, and my wallet is happier. Thanks for your help guys!


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Ksanman said:


> Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can point me to an answer to my problem since I've been searching for a couple of weeks.O have a Rd m8000 gs, it's about 6 months old with 1500+ miles on it.
> 
> Problem: Clutch does not stay in the "on" position. The lever never actually "clicks" for lack of better term into the on position. It gets hard to push down, but turns off in rock gardens, rough terrain, drops, etc.


Or....save yourself some time and grief and return it for a brand new one. It has a 2 year warranty since it's XT.

I had a clutch go bad on my 2 year old XTR RD. Figuring a wear item, I went into the shop (Art's) to buy the readily available clutch units for $15 or so. The guys did some checking and said "screw it" we'll give you a brand new RD because Shimano would replace it for them, anyway. Done!


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Do you think the bending of post happened from clutch being on all the time or maybe some harsh hits jarring derailleur over time? Curious how long your fix will last is all.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ No


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

JMac47 said:


> Do you think the bending of post happened from clutch being on all the time or maybe some harsh hits jarring derailleur over time? Curious how long your fix will last is all.


The bending happened because the tension screw was tightened too much. I found this out by mistake after re-bending it back. So far everything has been fine after riding some super chunky terrain in St George. Now I have to deal with other shifting problems. By the middle of each ride shifting was going out of whack, probably because of the rough terrain and hard shifting with the clutch engaged, and worn cogs. Yay for bike maintenance.


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## dinsum (May 31, 2016)

I know this is a old thread but I need to chime in, I got a 10 speed xt derailleur, the mech has been great but it needs to be re-greased quite regularly. I thought maybe the motorex 2000 grease maybe wasn't as good as the recommended shimano Y04120800 internal hub grease so I went ahead and spent $25 for a tube of it because of all the good reviews.

Well the stuff is pure crap if you ask me, its way too thin and you can tell when moving the mech by hand its super janky in comparison to the motorex 2000.

Is the shimano grease supposed to be very thin stuff or do I got a bad tube of it? I thought it was supposed to be decently thick

Here is a image of the tube I got

https://www.google.com/search?q=Y04...UIDygC&biw=2183&bih=955#imgrc=pqrDCL7uIhj4VM:

You can tell in that picture that there are some air pockets near the bottom which makes it looks pretty thick. There is no air pockets in mine, it almost looks like milk and barley thicker lol


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Yes, all internal hub and freehub greases are very thin. That's exactly what you want. I use Dumonde Tech Freehub grease on my Shimano Clutch.

Motorex is too think for a clutch mechanism, but it's my preferred grease on primary bearings.


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## dinsum (May 31, 2016)

Cleared2land said:


> Yes, all internal hub and freehub greases are very thin. That's exactly what you want. I use Dumonde Tech Freehub grease on my Shimano Clutch.
> 
> Motorex is too think for a clutch mechanism, but it's my preferred grease on primary bearings.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks for confirming its supposed to be thin, just not a fan of it

I can say for sure motorex 2000 just works better, its actually a decently thin grease that sticks so very well. If anybody has both greases you can try for yourself


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Have you entertained that the cage shaft or it's spring just need a little cleaning and lube? I have seen these get to where they get a little rough and binding.


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## dinsum (May 31, 2016)

Cleared2land said:


> Have you entertained that the cage shaft or it's spring just need a little cleaning and lube? I have seen these get to where they get a little rough and binding.


With the cover off it appears to function correctly, the only problem is as soon as the drum starts rotating in the spring it feels janky and makes a binding sound right when it starts moving, it does it right away with the shimano grease, the only grease that makes it smooth is the motorex 2000 but it stays smooth for about 2-3 rides then I need to re-apply. Also note that the mech tension bolt is pretty loose. Its possible the drum and spring have just wore into each other and maybe replacing them will make it smooth... I got an 11 speed xt mech that feels very good and it has barley any grease on it. I wish my 10 speed mech felt as good

Im trying to get it smooth because I have a dual suspension bike and you can actually hear the mech creek when hitting small bumps and makes the suspension feel not too great, with motorex 2000 on it, it feels really great for a few rides


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

dinsum said:


> With the cover off it appears to function correctly, the only problem is as soon as the drum starts rotating in the spring it feels janky and makes a binding sound right when it starts moving, it does it right away with the shimano grease, the only grease that makes it smooth is the motorex 2000 but it stays smooth for about 2-3 rides then I need to re-apply. Also note that the mech tension bolt is pretty loose. Its possible the drum and spring have just wore into each other and maybe replacing them will make it smooth... I got an 11 speed xt mech that feels very good and it has barley any grease on it. I wish my 10 speed mech felt as good
> 
> Im trying to get it smooth because I have a dual suspension bike and you can actually hear the mech creek when hitting small bumps and makes the suspension feel not too great, with motorex 2000 on it, it feels really great for a few rides


It sounds like you need to replace the clutch/clutch band. They aren't expensive parts--not worth monkeying with them if they aren't working properly, imo.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

wschruba said:


> It sounds like you need to replace the clutch/clutch band. They aren't expensive parts--not worth monkeying with them if they aren't working properly, imo.


I'm not thinking these components need replacement. They are pretty straight forward and not much to wear out.









Hmmm...I don't think lubrication is your issue on the Cam unit or Chain Stabilizer is the problem. I would try taking a look at the Plate Axle (Cage Shaft), it could need some lube.


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## dinsum (May 31, 2016)

Cleared2land said:


> I'm not thinking these components need replacement. They are pretty straight forward and not much to wear out.
> 
> View attachment 1233946
> 
> ...


Im not sure if that could be the issue, there is grease on everything except the one way bearing shaft and the one way bearing. I can tell for sure it has to do with the drum and spring. I will most likely buy some replacement since they are cheap just to see if it makes a difference, if not I will just have to re-lube every two rides lol


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Had a SLX, then a XT. Both broke, spares were same poor quality then and before the new piece was made I bought a XTR. Never had a problem since.
Shimano OEM lube is working just fine.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^ I believe the topic that you're referring to was a design issue with the bend radius on the Cam Unit and they were cracking at the tension adjustment bend radius. That Cam Unit was redesigned by Shimano and that is no longer an issue. Not the same as this topic.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Absolutely correct. What I mean with the comparison is that Shimano seems to have been thinking a bit harder (better) when they made the XTR as I have never heard about issues with that. I am not unhappy with having spend more to get less problems.
The clutches broken have been repaired and are spares should that be needed.


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