# Brake survey...



## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

So for you people that run expeditions, I am curious as to what brakes you are using. I especially want hear from those of you that are using hydraulic (or have used them) and what your thoughts are on them. I actually was thinking of using TRP spkyes as they are a great manual brake that is real easy to adjust. However, I have been told that a good hydraulic setup is the only way to go because they provide a lot more power. Anyone want weigh in on this?

OSRL


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

My favorite is Shimano XT with 180 rotors.
I have other Shimano hydraulics and they work well too.
I use to be a big fan of Avid BB-7's but hydraulics blow them away. 
I used to run 160 rotors but now I go 180 and if you are bigger perhaps a 203 up front.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

If set up well mechanical brakes have more then enough power, but that can come as a trade off for less modulation.

I have BB7s on two bikes and I don't know I have ever thought they were under powered, even when loaded. Great brakes. 

I have ridden some bikes with Spykes and Spyres and didn't think they had near as much power, and they were also more noisy then my BB7s.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

I have been thinking of the TRP HY/RD brakes because they seem to be the best trade off between hydraulic and manual. However, people seem to think that straight hydraulic is a must. I worry about a potential problems in the field with them though.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

BB7's, 180 front, 160 rear work just fine on my Karate Monkey.


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## baltobrewer (Apr 22, 2015)

I went from BB7s to Spykes on my Beargrease, and would not go back, love them. I also think that while they're not as powerful as hydros, the lack of maintenance, for me, makes up for slightly less power. Compared to BB7's the adjustment is dead easy. Loosen the bolts, center the caliper, tighten it up, and then adjust each side individually with a 3mm hex. Takes 2 minutes. The fact that both pads move is, to me , a big deal, since the pad wear is even and the adjustments less fiddly. YMMV.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

baltobrewer said:


> I went from BB7s to Spykes on my Beargrease, and would not go back, love them. I also think that while they're not as powerful as hydros, the lack of maintenance, for me, makes up for slightly less power. Compared to BB7's the adjustment is dead easy. Loosen the bolts, center the caliper, tighten it up, and then adjust each side individually with a 3mm hex. Takes 2 minutes. The fact that both pads move is, to me , a big deal, since the pad wear is even and the adjustments less fiddly. YMMV.
> 
> View attachment 1141714


Thanks....
So you feel that they have more than enough power. My bike will be heavy and I sure would not want a brake fail on a steep run down a mountain highway.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

BB7's good stopping power. Bike, 70lbs + me @ 230 lbs + 42 mph at one of those 8% trucks test brakes signs? All good.


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## dh024 (Dec 11, 2010)

leeboh said:


> BB7's good stopping power. Bike, 70lbs + me @ 230 lbs + 42 mph at one of those 8% trucks test brakes signs? All good.


Agreed. Plenty of stopping power, plus good (not spectacular) modulation.

And you will probably find BB7s on more road touring bikes (think even heavier loads than bikepacking) than any other brand of disc brakes (perhaps even most of them put together).


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## idahomer (Feb 22, 2017)

I can't comment of hydros as I haven't used them, yet. I have used and abused the TRP Spyke on a fat bike and my bike pack rig and think they are the shizzz. Plenty of stopping power under a full load and stupid easy to service.


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## baltobrewer (Apr 22, 2015)

Yes, plenty. Having used them back to back with the BB7s, I think the Spykes are more powerful and easier to modulate.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

BB7 are a great cable brake. You will need to manually adjust them as they wear.

If I was picking a brake for reliability, power and modulation then XT wins hands down.
At least a 180mm rotor in the front and 160 to 180 rear depending on weight and length of descents.
I like to stagger my brakes with bigger in the front. So if you need 180 rear try a 203 front


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## CrashTheDOG (Jan 4, 2004)

Has anyone tried Paul Components Klampers?


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## Aushiker (Sep 27, 2007)

Another ex Avid user now running TRP Spykes. No going back to Avid BB7 nor hydraulics for that matter.


Holland Track Day 2: Salsa Mukluk at Granite Rock Outcrop


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

CrashTheDOG said:


> Has anyone tried Paul Components Klampers?


Yup. They're awesome. I'm done with BB7s.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

The Spykes are what I was really interested in as for an expedition bike the simpler the better. The Klampers are really well made but having that red adjuster like the BB7's was a strike against them...well that and the cost.
Concerning the Spykes...are there a lot of knockoffs of these as you see a lot of Chinese sellers of these on Ebay. I sure would not want that.. It seems that they are all around the $100 each price point. Does that sound right?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> The Klampers are really well made but having that red adjuster like the BB7's was a strike against them....


There are other color options, including all black - the red adjuster knobs were a special order through Simworks.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

Smithhammer said:


> There are other color options, including all black - the red adjuster knobs were a special order through Simworks.


Yes..but they still adjust from the spoke side...where you reach through the spoke to tighten or lossen...just like the BB7's.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> Yes..but they still adjust from the spoke side...where you reach through the spoke to tighten or lossen...just like the BB7's.


I think you will find that there is FAR less adjustment needed with Klampers than with BB7s. I've been running them on two bikes for the last six months and I hardly ever touch them. With BB7s I felt like I was having to futz with them after practically every ride. There really is no comparison between the two at all. Far easier setup, far less adjusting required, better modulation and quality that is superior in every way. But yeah, you pay for it.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

Ok...I will take another look at them...thanks.


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## CrashTheDOG (Jan 4, 2004)

Smithhammer said:


> Yup. They're awesome. I'm done with BB7s.


Thanks Smithhammer. Looks like you're running the long pull Klampers with the compact Love Lever. Correct?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

CrashTheDOG said:


> Thanks Smithhammer. Looks like you're running the long pull Klampers with the compact Love Lever. Correct?


Yup. Super easy install.:thumbsup:


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

I've had BB7's on several bikes by choice for reliability. Latest on my '13 Krampus. 
I was happy until talked into XTs (hydro) by an acquaintance who's spent the last 25 years as a bike mechanic. He stated the hydros reliability is so good now. The final straw was the LBS had XTs, pre-cut, on sale for a few bucks cheaper than the Spykes (which he rides).
I installed the XT's on my new Jones + w/ 203 front and 180 rear. 
Umm..it would be hard to go back. The stopping power is significantly better and allows me ride (loaded) like I stole it - not possible with the BB7s. 
Reliability? I'll have to defer comment for a few years.
No experience with any other mechanicals.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

seedub said:


> I've had BB7's on several bikes by choice for reliability. Latest on my '13 Krampus.
> I was happy until talked into XTs (hydro) by an acquaintance who's spent the last 25 years as a bike mechanic. He stated the hydros reliability is so good now. The final straw was the LBS had XTs, pre-cut, on sale for a few bucks cheaper than the Spykes (which he rides).
> I installed the XT's on my new Jones + w/ 203 front and 180 rear.
> Umm..it would be hard to go back. The stopping power is significantly better and allows me ride (loaded) like I stole it - not possible with the BB7s.
> ...


Do you have a link to the model you have?


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> Do you have a link to the model you have?


BR-M8000

I bought mine from the local Universal Cycles.

I can't say they work any better than any other comparable model. They have a good reputation and were affordable.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Define "expeditions"?


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

mikesee said:


> Define "expeditions"?


multi state ride...over a LONG period of time.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> multi state ride...over a LONG period of time.


That's helpful, but still vague. Where I'm going with this is that if you're going to be within reasonable proximity of towns/cities, then it doesn't really matter which brakes you choose. Almost everything is super reliable and incredibly powerful these days.

There's an urban legend that's been passed around for the last decade+ that only cable-actuated brakes are apropos for 'out there' trips, but I'm just not seeing it. The only true rebuildability of cable brakes is the ability to install a new cable, and that's not much of a solution IMO. Or maybe it's more accurate to say that it's a solution in search of a problem.

If something truly goes wrong with any brake, odds are you're going to need a shop with tools and parts to fix it.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

mikesee said:


> That's helpful, but still vague. Where I'm going with this is that if you're going to be within reasonable proximity of towns/cities, then it doesn't really matter which brakes you choose. Almost everything is super reliable and incredibly powerful these days.
> 
> There's an urban legend that's been passed around for the last decade+ that only cable-actuated brakes are apropos for 'out there' trips, but I'm just not seeing it. The only true rebuildability of cable brakes is the ability to install a new cable, and that's not much of a solution IMO. Or maybe it's more accurate to say that it's a solution in search of a problem.
> 
> If something truly goes wrong with any brake, odds are you're going to need a shop with tools and parts to fix it.


Ok,,,so what brake would you recommend?


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

I would get these: Shimano XT M8000 Disc Brake > Components > Brakes & Shifters > Mountain Brake Sets | Jenson USA

And these in 180 and pehaps a 203 up front: Shimano XT M8000 Disc Brake > Components > Brakes & Shifters > Mountain Brake Sets | Jenson USA

For long trips pick up a couple extra brake pad sets.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

richwolf said:


> I would get these: Shimano XT M8000 Disc Brake > Components > Brakes & Shifters > Mountain Brake Sets | Jenson USA
> 
> And these in 180 and pehaps a 203 up front: Shimano XT M8000 Disc Brake > Components > Brakes & Shifters > Mountain Brake Sets | Jenson USA
> 
> For long trips pick up a couple extra brake pad sets.


I just read an article (review) where they said that newer XTs are not as good as the old ones. I will try find that article...
Other than that I have heard really good things about these...thanks.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> Ok,,,so what brake would you recommend?





mikesee said:


> Almost everything is super reliable and incredibly powerful these days.


Look hard enough and you can find people that love and hate every brake. Why is that? Because everyone is different, riding in different places with varying expectations. I have Shimano, Avid, and Hayes brakes in the stable right now. All have different strengths that shine through. All are excellent, even compared to "the best" from a few years ago.

It's easy to overthink these decisions -- I'm as guilty of it as anyone.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

[QUOTE It's easy to overthink these decisions ....[/QUOTE]

Guilty as charged....


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I still think there is some merit in using cable actuated discs for way-out-there trips. While most failure modes cannot be fixed, there are at least some that can be fixed, assuming you are carrying extra brake cable and housing of course. I've never taken one of those trips, and likely never will, so most of my bikes sport Shimano hydraulics these days...

From your description, anything should work fine.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

I have used hydros for many years, now using some bb7's, don't notice any difference in stopping power. You get a sticky caliper on a hydro setup what you gonna do on the trail?


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

Man...I gotta bite the bullet and get this done, but for me this is a big decision. I went on a cross-country a few years ago and that bike, a Trekk flat-bar road bike had the rim brakes. It was terrifying going down steep grades with them...the brakes would howl like a horny wolf that hadn't been laid in a year. So...the manual discs, like for example my BB7's, are a HUGE improvement over that. Back then there was a similar discussion (concerning expedition style bikes) that rim brakes were more reliable than discs, the argument for them is the same as manual discs versus hydros. 

So as a few have you have pointed out...what we have nowadays is much better...we know that. So if I were to split the difference, wouldn't it make sense to go with the TRP HY/RD's? Are they as good as full hydro...probably not...are they better that regular manual brakes...arguably yes. Therefore...what I do like about them (TRP HY/RD) is that they self adjust, and the apply pressure from both sides as opposed to one. (This is comparing to the BB7's) So I don't see too many like this, just the TRPs and the Juins. 

Furthermore I had one person that said, why don't I put a hydro on the back and a manual disc (TRP Spykes) on the back. I think that is getting way ahead of myself though. Or is it?


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^Obviously, either will work just fine. Try 'em both, I like that idea, it will give you a real comparison too. I find cables and housings to be a little simpler to adjust around my bar bag, like they don't cost $40 a pop, don't need special tools or equipment to work on or change. Nothing to do with brake performance, just bikepacking convenience.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

HY/RDs work well, and are high on my list for a mechanical road brake because they do take some of the squish out of the system but I worry that there is potential to double the possible modes of failure.

Or versus and, if you know what I mean.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

Ok...so I am leaning towards the TRP HY-Rds...but I have a question. Why does their website say " we always recommend using 160 front".... Does that mean that you should use a minimum of 160? I wanted to use a big rotor up front, 203mm to be exact, so can I do that? 
Also...are there design limits for the size of rotors for suspension forks? I will be using a suspension fork and as I said above I want to use a 203mm but not if it is not safe. Oh...on that note I was going to use the TRP rotor but is there a better one that you all may recommend?


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## Addy Marx (Jul 18, 2009)

XT's. Many years; trips, races, tours, travels all over on the 785's. Recently got some m8000's. The 785's are still on a commuter bike. Apparently the problem with some earlier versions of the m8000's has been resolved, I haven't had any issues to date. 

After many years on BB7's and recently trying them again on the same trails I used to ride them on, I will never use them again. Maybe on a beer bike or a townie but that's about it. 

Tried TRP Spyres on a surly straggler for a bit as well, they were ok at best (compressionless housing, etc, all of it). Hydro's me unless I was out on Mars or ****istan for months on end or in deep wilderness where braking is less 'important'.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Those HY/RDs would be my last choice! Seems to me you get all the problems of cable and hydraulic bakes and none of the advantages.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

bikeny said:


> I still think there is some merit in using cable actuated discs for way-out-there trips. While most failure modes cannot be fixed, there are at least some that can be fixed, assuming you are carrying extra brake cable and housing of course. From your description, anything should work fine.


Thanks, but I am confused...here is your post from before.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

bikeny said:


> Those HY/RDs would be my last choice! Seems to me you get all the problems of cable and hydraulic bakes and none of the advantages.


So what are you suggesting? Really...I want to know.
Thanks


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

At first blush I see many advantages with not having several feet of hose, several fittings and two actuators (for each front and rear) system. Sounds pretty cool.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

What I'm saying is, if you're going on a multi-month international tour through third world countries, consider cable actuated brakes like the TRP Spyke, Avid BB7, of Paul's Clampers. For riding around the US for a while, any of those will work, as will any of the big name hydraulic brakes. I don't like those TRP HY/RD, because they're both cable and hydraulic, with the failure potential of both.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

So now...Spykes. Yeah...I know..back and forth. I do want to know if it is possible to set these up with a 203mm rotor,(front) say a Hope floating disc. If I am going all manual then why not get the most stopping power I can. It is going on a post mount sus fork...so I would assume I would need an adapter for the 203mm. The back would be a 180mm...
I also ask why so many price differences on these? I see Ebay China, Taiwan sellers and that screems "knock off".


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

*Thanks for the help....*

Well I really appreciated all the help from you all, as it really helped me. I did in the end go with Hydraulic, and I will tell you why went that way. First and foremost, I have never had hydraulics on a bike and I really just wanted to experience them first hand. My hands are not what they used to be, with cramping and soreness, so I figured that hydraulic would be the easiest to use with less stress. 
So what did I get in the end? I got the Shimano XT M8000. Many of you say that is a super reliable brake, as do most reviewers anywhere. I really like the looks of them and although bleeding them is a pain, I cannot imagine that I will need to do it that often.

OSRL


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> Well I really appreciated all the help from you all, as it really helped me. I did in the end go with Hydraulic, and I will tell you why went that way. First and foremost, I have never had hydraulics on a bike and I really just wanted to experience them first hand. My hands are not what they used to be, with cramping and soreness, so I figured that hydraulic would be the easiest to use with less stress.
> So what did I get in the end? I got the Shimano XT M8000. Many of you say that is a super reliable brake, as do most reviewers anywhere. I really like the looks of them and although bleeding them is a pain, I cannot imagine that I will need to do it that often.
> 
> OSRL


I think you made a good choice. Good luck, and be sure to come back and share your adventures!


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## grooveface (Feb 6, 2008)

Bb7 with 203rotors and call it a day


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

bikeny said:


> I think you made a good choice. Good luck, and be sure to come back and share your adventures!


Thanks...I will. I have another question though. I am doing 203mm rotors in the front and 180mm in the back The back will be a Rohloff so that has to be a Rohloff rotor which is 4 bolt. However, I wanted to know your recommendations for the 203mm. I was thinking of a floating Hope disc...


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> Thanks...I will. I have another question though. I am doing 203mm rotors in the front and 180mm in the back The back will be a Rohloff so that has to be a Rohloff rotor which is 4 bolt. However, I wanted to know your recommendations for the 203mm. I was thinking of a floating Hope disc...


I can't really help you there. I've never gone up to a 203 rotor, I always run 180 front and 160 rear. I've heard good things about the Shimano Icetech rotors, but never tried them myself.


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

Not too long ago saw a kid (13 YO?) on a bmx, long hair and jeans, hoodie, absolutely ripping a single track along the road, jumping curbs etc. No brakes. Just his skate shoed foot on the rear tire using the seat stay as the brace. Awesome.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

seedub said:


> Not too long ago saw a kid (13 YO?) on a bmx, long hair and jeans, hoodie, absolutely ripping a single track along the road, jumping curbs etc. No brakes. Just his skate shoed foot on the rear tire using the seat stay as the brace. Awesome.


That's a talent...and wicked.


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

BB7 FTW... I use them on all of my mountain bikes and bikepacking rigs. Pads are cheap and they are pretty bulletproof.

On my tandem, I run Spykes though.


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## Robopotomus (Oct 6, 2013)

I use BB7s on my fat expedition bike. They have tons of modulation as I use avid speeddial brake levers. The speedials are very adjustable and only cost £15. My cyclocross bike came with hy/rd brakes and are OK given the limits of road style brake levers. 

My full suspension bike has hope tech e4 brakes and are great also. And my son's MTB has shimano brakes. All are good, but the least reliable has been the shimanos.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Losvar (Mar 21, 2016)

Saw that you already got brakes sorted, but for anyone else in the same boat.

Hope brakes are pretty much indestructible, they will probably outlive the rider. 
Carry a spare hose in your backpack, you should carry the tools you need for that swap on a long ride anyway, and a small bottle of fluid, ripping the hose is quite unlikely, but it could happen.

Don't drink the fluid.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

A spare hose, brake fluid, and the necessary tools? :skep:

Makes a spare brake cable seem really minimal.


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## Losvar (Mar 21, 2016)

You only need a 8 mm spanner, it takes no room at all, and a small bottle of fluid takes no real space either, or if you're close to civilization you can get fluid at almost any gas station.


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