# Sram Eagle 1x12



## marekvag (Oct 30, 2011)

Hi guys,
There is not much out yet, but 24/3/2017 should be reveild new 12 speed groupset from sram. It should be based od current X01 groupset with codename Eagle.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

This post have been put up and taken down a number of times now.... Countdown... 3...2...1...


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Gregg has requested we dont do what you have just done:

http://forums.mtbr.com/site-feedbac...g-deleted-1001362.html#post12430963)......smh

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...ng-popularity-now-where-will-end-1001363.html


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

retro grouch cynics drive me nuts but even for a fanboy for all new innovations 12 speeds is a bit much.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

I'll prob end up getting it with e13s 9-52 cassette


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Great idea, after all chainline ans wear hasn't been an issue at all. Trudge forward ignore current issue. Someone in the boardroom watched SpinalTap one two many times stoned and confused 11 with 12.


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

Holy crap. A bike parts manufacturer, making an incremental improvement over an existing product. I am shocked. SHOCKED.


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## Like2Hike (Jan 12, 2016)

*2017 or 2016?*



marekvag said:


> Hi guys,
> There is not much out yet, but 24/3/2017 should be reveild new 12 speed groupset from sram. It should be based od current X01 groupset with codename Eagle.


So why does your title and text state 2017, when your attachments show 2016?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

If this exists, it will be used under a couple of dudes down in Rio well, well before then. 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Lol...or it could be on the new post Boost standard hubs. Not sure if there is enough room for 12 cogs on the current hub bodies?


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

RS VR6 said:


> Lol...or it could be on the new post Boost standard hubs. Not sure if there is enough room for 12 cogs on the current hub bodies?


I don't see how there can be enough room for a 12 speed.
Unless they make the chain thinner ?
I just changed my XX1 chain at 210 miles it was at 75% if they make the chain thinner I don't think they will last long.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

NWS said:


> Holy crap. A bike parts manufacturer, making an incremental improvement over an existing product. I am shocked. SHOCKED.


Right, maybe they should get what they have out ironed out - that would be an improvement.


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2016)

Junersun said:


> I'll prob end up getting it with e13s 9-52 cassette


Approved for insight. :thumbsup:

Few things:

If the cassette followed the normal progression the largest cog should be 48T, not 50. You can see in the pic (or maybe not) that the last step is bigger than the others. At least the extra gear is used for more range. The big mistake made with 10 speed was not increasing the range.

The extra range, when combined with chainrings larger than might otherwise be used, will affect FS behavior. Will be fine on high-AS designs but can be a problem for others.

More range is usually better, but once you get around 500% you are covering just about everyone.


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## Vanguard (Feb 4, 2014)

Will this fit existing hubs?


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Vanguard said:


> Will this fit existing hubs?


Lol. The new standard is called Burst 158.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

11-speed is now obsolete. Wow that was quick!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Vanguard said:


> Will this fit existing hubs?


I'm guessing it will fit the XD freehub. The largest cog will follow the slope of the spokes. A concave "bottom" to the cassette, if that makes sense.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

I'm not really sure who this for? Do most people need more range than what x01 gives? Is it for entry level riders who need more range? Why is it an X0 level then?

I'd rather see an e-tap version of xx1


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

I could run the next size chain ring and get more gear for the down. I'm not the strongest rider so I'm left with a 30-10 gear ratio which at times I spin out pointing down...


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## Like2Hike (Jan 12, 2016)

bhsavery said:


> I'm not really sure who this for? Do most people need more range than what x01 gives? Is it for entry level riders who need more range? Why is it an X0 level then?


Have to agree!

I'm an entry level rider and this groupset would cost more than I'd want to spend on an entire bike. 3X makes much more sense to get the range I want.

This has to be about marketing, the biggest, the baddest, not logic or need.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2016)

Like2Hike said:


> Have to agree!
> 
> I'm an entry level rider and this groupset would cost more than I'd want to spend on an entire bike. 3X makes much more sense to get the range I want.
> 
> This has to be about marketing, the biggest, the baddest, not logic or need.


But the assumption that it is for entry level riders is false. You are clearly not the target market.

There is plenty of market for gearing range. These exact same criticisms were made of 1x11 when it was introduced.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

craigsj said:


> But the assumption that it is for entry level riders is false. You are clearly not the target market.
> 
> There is plenty of market for gearing range. These exact same criticisms were made of 1x11 when it was introduced.


Oh I agree this is an X0 level group hence not entry level. I'm just questioning who on the high end (usually stronger riders) needs more gear range than 10-42. I suppose that point is debatable, but haven't heard a ton of XX1 or X01 riders complaining they don't have the gear range anymore.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2016)

bhsavery said:


> I'm just questioning who on the high end (usually stronger riders) needs more gear range than 10-42. I suppose that point is debatable, but haven't heard a ton of XX1 or X01 riders complaining they don't have the gear range anymore.


It's not hard to find people complaining about gearing range, justified or not, even among experienced, strong, and affluent riders. Whether they need it is debatable, but certainly some can justify it. Adding another gear marginalizes front shifting further and enables 1x optimizations in bikes for an even wider audience.

It wasn't long ago that there was outrage over the useless extra gearing that no one needed with 1x11 and complaints over the greedy nature and gall of SRAM to introduce not only an entirely new standard but a new driver as well. Who could possibly need smaller than 11T, right? That kicked off the wide range 10 speed race that was clearly needed from the beginning but which no one bothered with until 11 speed came along.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

craigsj said:


> But the assumption that it is for entry level riders is false. You are clearly not the target market.
> 
> There is plenty of market for gearing range. These exact same criticisms were made of 1x11 when it was introduced.


Exactly. I know a lot of people who want more range than what 1x11 offers and it's far from just entry level people. In fact I suspect it will have the most appeal with racers, I know a fair number of racers who are still running 2x setups because they want the extra range.


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

My guess is that it's in large part to facilitate the use of larger chainrings as "the norm". Smaller chainrings wear faster.

Could also be for improved suspension, as most 1x bikes are designed around ~32t rings, but Joe Average prefers 28 or 30t.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Can't wait to see the chain line when it's up on the 50t cog.


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

I mean seriously..if this is your decided option for 1X climbing just run 2X10. At some point this 1X stuff gets stupid.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

eTap xx1 with a 9-44 TRS Plus cassette would be ideal.



bhsavery said:


> I'm not really sure who this for? Do most people need more range than what x01 gives? Is it for entry level riders who need more range? Why is it an X0 level then?
> 
> I'd rather see an e-tap version of xx1


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## Joss002 (Sep 22, 2014)

12 speed !! 
I cant cope.... Im going back to Sturmey-Archer 3 speed...A simpler time


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2016)

MTBeing said:


> At some point this 1X stuff gets stupid.


Once upon a time anything larger than 32T in the back was considered "stupid" and a big cog on a road bike was 25T. Comments like this get old after a while.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

craigsj said:


> Once upon a time anything larger than 32T in the back was considered "stupid" and a big cog on a road bike was 25T. Comments like this get old after a while.


Roadies are running bigger than 25t these days? I've been out of it for awhile.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> Roadies are running bigger than 25t these days? I've been out of it for awhile.


At times, yes, even racers. Road bikes now have 11-32 options.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

MTBeing said:


> I mean seriously..if this is your decided option for 1X climbing just run 2X10. At some point this 1X stuff gets stupid.


Every change in drivetrain since the invention of the bicycle has spawned these type of comments. This kind of range is not for everyone but there are plenty of options available for those of us who don't.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

The reason this is viable now is because of manufacturing improvements made over the past 10-20 years. When 10 speeds were launched, cassettes were stamped plates that were bolted together. Current 11 speed and soon 12 speed parts are machined from whole billet on special 3d CNC machines which results in a part with super tight tolerances. On top of that, bikes with thru axels are more prevalent which means the rear drive train itself is tighter and more consistent. 

All of this means we get to enjoy faster, more reliable shifting without a big hit to durability. The only thing that sucks is the high initial prices as the companies have to pay off big piles of expensive machining equipment. All of this stuff comes down in price after a few years though. 

Also, the cost of this equipment has come way down which is a big part of why we're seeing so many people manufacturing 11 speed parts now. I imagine we'll see after-market 12 speed cassettes and parts much faster than in previous generations so there's a good chance we won't have to deal with SRAM selling $500 cassettes for long.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

Ogre:

Umm. No.

First of all. Majority of 11 speed cassettes are still stamped steel. It's cheap, easy and well known process. The billet steel cassettes are top-tier SRAM stuff. Nobody else does that because it is expensive as heck.

Even SRAM in its medium and low end cassettes uses steel plate cogs bolted together.

All the technology to make a 12 speed drivetrain existed 20 years ago.

EDIT: By the way. The market ( that is: us ) has proven capable of buying $300 wear items. Why would a self respecting capitalist sell for less? Even now the 10 speed 11-42 cassettes carry a hefty premium over 11-36.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

> All the technology to make a 12 speed drivetrain existed 20 years ago.


Nonsense. If it were possible, someone would have done it years ago and taken the bike industry by storm. As it was, SRAM's jump to 1x 11 let them grab a huge chunk of market-share from Shimano.



> Why would a self respecting capitalist sell for less?


Because in a capitalist market, competition drives down prices. SRAM had a near monopoly on 11-speed components for a couple years which is why their 11-speed kit was sky-high for a long time. Ever since Shimano got 11-Speed components on the market, the two companies have been racing to launch lower priced 11-speed product lines.

They aren't going to enjoy that kind of extended window with 12 speed components. Shimano got burned bad sitting on their hands for the 11-speed shift over and they aren't going to let it slide so long this time.



> Even now the 10 speed 11-42 cassettes carry a hefty premium over 11-36.


Buying an extended range 10-speed cassette is roughly 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of upgrading to 11-speed which is the primary thing people are weighing them against.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Hey why no 1x13?? that must be better than 12 right? Its one more. And maybe you can fit a 65t cog on there? I have a feeling they will go 13 next year and are just milking the customers.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12, same conversation every time.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

> Nonsense. If it were possible, someone would have done it years ago and taken the bike industry by storm.


And if someone _could_ weld a headtube at 65 degree angle in 1995, then someone would, and would have taken industry by storm 

Stamping 12 cogs instead of 8 could be done. Making 11 indents in the shift mechanism instead of 7 could be done as well. Sure, you would not have 2-way release, but you would have 12 speed drivetrain. In all honesty, 10 speed drivetrain is available from 2000, thus was in development in approx 1997 or so.

Industry goes forward in baby steps. Precisely because cyclists are quite conservative to the whole idea of more-better.



> Because in a capitalist market, competition drives down prices.


In capitalist market consumer demand drives prices up. Sram had a lead because they introduced super-wide cassettes along with dedicated 1by drivetrain to a market that was largely moving towards 1by drivetrains. Even they were surprised how much people wanted it because the initial marketing of XX1 was very conservative. I think they expected another hammerschmidt fiasco.

Shimano does not give a flying what consumer wants. They sell to OEMs primarily.

However. Extra wide cassettes could be introduced in 10 speed as well, and 9, and possibly 8. Elevenness is entirely superfluous. All 11 speed added was even more clicking, even worse chainline and backpedalling issues in some cases.



> Buying an extended range 10-speed cassette is roughly 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of upgrading to 11-speed which is the primary thing people are weighing them against.


For no reason whatsoever. The 10 speed 11-42 costs approximately 50% more then 11-36 10 speed from the same manufacturer.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

MTBeing said:


> I mean seriously..if this is your decided option for 1X climbing just run 2X10. At some point this 1X stuff gets stupid.


I agree. I'm a 1x guy, but the question is how many cogs and how big of a gear do you hang out back to run 1x. 50t? I'm not a fan of front derailleurs, but I think I'd go that route before putting a 50t on.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

JACKL said:


> I agree. I'm a 1x guy, but the question is how many cogs and how big of a gear do you hang out back to run 1x. 50t? I'm not a fan of front derailleurs, but I think I'd go that route before putting a 50t on.


This. Has everyone already forgotten about that dread cross chaining? Chain line are close to that with 1x. I know when I look at mine, sometimes I think, I wouldn't have done that combo back with 3x.

I know on some tech climbs I have to racthet my pedals, people are already having backpedaling and wear issues. Now with the dinner plates in the rear, weight differences are shrinking.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

uzurpator said:


> And if someone _could_ weld a headtube at 65 degree angle in 1995, then someone would, and would have taken industry by storm


In 1995 we had elastomer shocks with 1" travel. There was no point to 65 degree slack angles because the bikes couldn't handle it.

Everything is stacked on top of the generations that came before. Better metals, higher tolerance manufacturing, and better technology to design bikes.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> This. Has everyone already forgotten about that dread cross chaining? Chain line are close to that with 1x. I know when I look at mine, sometimes I think, I wouldn't have done that combo back with 3x.


Yes, I forgot about cross chaining about 8 years ago when I ripped the front DR off my bike. It's easy to forget when it ceases to be a problem. With newer drivetrains designed to run 1x, it's just not something you ever think about.



> I know on some tech climbs I have to racthet my pedals, people are already having backpedaling and wear issues. Now with the dinner plates in the rear, weight differences are shrinking.


That extra "dinner plate" weighs less than the front derailleur by itself, that's not counting the extra chainring, spidered crankset, cables, or shifter.

Ultimately, I suspect that's the bigger argument against the 1x12 being successful has nothing to do with 2x alternatives. The problem with 1x12 is the that 1x11 offers enough range for most people and will soon be half the cost.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Won't that super large ring out back make for an awful lot of chain to suck up?

The RD cage is going to have to be pretty long, making it more injury prone. Will maybe need to run the clutch at high tensions as well.


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

*Sram X01 Eagle 1x12 speed for 2017*



craigsj said:


> Once upon a time anything larger than 32T in the back was considered "stupid" and a big cog on a road bike was 25T. Comments like this get old after a while.


At some point the granny cog gets so big that rear derailleur is in jeopardy of getting damaged, bent, warped, or otherwise out of line that the rear shifting goes to hell. I think the industry is basically there. I'm certainly not 'hating' on 1x but it does have a diminishing return.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

MTBeing said:


> At some point the granny cog gets so big that rear derailleur is in jeopardy of getting damaged, bent, warped, or otherwise out of line that the rear shifting goes to hell. I think the industry is basically there.


But you have no evidence to support that claim.



MTBeing said:


> I'm certainly not 'hating' on 1x but it does have a diminishing return.


No, of course not. You're just making up things to support your narrative, no "hating" involved.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

Miker J said:


> Won't that super large ring out back make for an awful lot of chain to suck up?
> 
> The RD cage is going to have to be pretty long, making it more injury prone. Will maybe need to run the clutch at high tensions as well.


There's a 40T difference in a 10-50 cassette. Existing RD's handle more chain take-up than that.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

When the cogs go 50 so will the rd's obviously. The real question here you got to ask yourself is: do I really need a 50t cog?? Do I need a 500% range?

When I was like 10 years old I found out that the big ring and the small one on my 3x7 didn't get any use. I could just as well have taken them off (if I had the tools and knowhow then). then it was like 11/12-30 or so. And it was completely sufficient. And it still IS! Running a wide range 11-30 now  ooooh.
And I wasn't exactly crying my eyes out when it was 12-28 either somehow.

Hey I have a cool idea. why not make an 11-50 8sp?? One that fits the good old classic freehubs and is loose cog for easy replacement, uses the 8sp spacing, and 8sp chains for longevity and durability. Or even beef things up a bit. Make the cogs/chains/chainrings thicker. And maybe make it out of the space age material steel.

But yeah, hmm, then again, that stuff would last for several years, can't have that now can we?? Stuff that lasts. Then no one would be buying new stuff.

Just like when I had my 21 speed... Never changed a thing for several years, and it always worked. And I rode that bike every single day, all day long, for years!

Sorry just thinking out loud.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

car bone said:


> When the cogs go 50 so will the rd's obviously. The real question here you got to ask yourself is: do I really need a 50t cog?? Do I need a 500% range?


This is a personal question. Some folks do, many don't. (and many people don't really need it, but swear it's vital to their riding).



> Make the cogs/chains/chainrings thicker. And maybe make it out of the space age material steel.


Reliability and shift consistency has greatly improved in the past 15 years so I have no desire to swift back to 8-speed shifters. If durability is important, there are plenty of options with fairly modern kit though. You can put together a fairly durable 10-speed drivetrain with an 11-36t cassette, or a slightly less durable 11-40t cassette which is about 80% steel.

Or you can really take it up a notch and get a Rohloff or Pinion drivetrain with Gates Belt drive. That stuff is beefy but lasts forever.



> But yeah, hmm, then again, that stuff would last for several years, can't have that now can we?? Stuff that lasts. Then no one would be buying new stuff.


This kind of conspiracy thinking is always amusing. Ultimately, it's us, the consumers driving most of this. Steel parts are out there and almost always less expensive but people avoid them because they value lighter weight and higher performance bikes. There are tons of amazing steel bikes out there, but aluminum and carbon outsells them by a huge margin. Likewise, carbon and aluminum dominate the components industry as well.



> Just like when I had my 21 speed... Never changed a thing for several years, and it always worked. And I rode that bike every single day, all day long, for years!
> 
> Sorry just thinking out loud.


When I started riding mountain bikes I was about 18 years ago when I was in my early 30s. I had a fairly nice Gary Fisher with LX components, and the drive-train was total crap. I'd get chain suck about once every third ride and shifting was mediocre to absolutely awful under any kind of load. Not only did that stuff wear out, since it was a 3x setup, there were twice as many components wearing out if you didn't rotate your chain.

I suspect the fact that your 21 speed lasted forever had more to do with the demands of a 10 year old rider than the merits of the technology. Because my experience with old world heavy steel components couldn't be more different from what you describe.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Ogre said:


> I have no idea why people are pining to go back to that older technology myself. .


Because it works??



Ogre said:


> I suspect the fact that your 21 speed lasted forever had more to do with the demands of a 10 year old rider than the merits of the technology. Because my experience with old world heavy steel components couldn't be more different from what you describe.


Possibly yes but still I never had to change jack chit on that bike. Cant say that today.

I'd say 8sp is far more durable than 11sp ever was or will be. but thats just me. Going form 9sp to 8sp stuff was quite an improvement for me. and i'm not going back. they can easily make 11-50 in 8sp if they wanted. And nobody really needs like 12 cogs out back. you only double shift anyway since its so close packed. why not make something truly good instead? I'm on 6sp now btw.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

car bone said:


> Because it works??


Again... huge discrepancy in experience here.



> Possibly yes but still I never had to change jack chit on that bike. Cant say that today.


I weigh about 3 times what I weighed when I was 10.



> I'd say 8sp is far more durable than 11sp ever was or will be. but thats just me. Going form 9sp to 8sp stuff was quite an improvement for me. and i'm not going back. they can easily make 11-50 in 8sp if they wanted. And nobody really needs like 12 cogs out back. you only double shift anyway since its so close packed. why not make something truly good instead? I'm on 6sp now btw.


I do get where you're coming from. My every-day beater bike is a single speed for many of the same reasons you lay out. But I also very much enjoy having a light-weight 11-speed drive train with a wide range on my full suspension bike when I'm on long rides (or the rare race).

If they made a modern wide-range 1x8 steel setup focused on longevity and durability, it would be genuinely interesting but more for touring or bike packing. I'm just not interested in older shifters and derailleurs, too many bad experiences.


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

craigsj said:


> But you have no evidence to support that claim.
> 
> No, of course not. You're just making up things to support your narrative, no "hating" involved.


Sure I do. Empirical evidence. No need to to get snarky, it's not cancer, just a hobby.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

MTBeing said:


> Sure I do. Empirical evidence.


And I have empirical evidence that you are making up yours.


MTBeing said:


> No need to to get snarky, it's not cancer, just a hobby.


Same could be said to you. You're not "hating", just "hating".


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

car bone said:


> I'd say 8sp is far more durable than 11sp ever was or will be. but thats just me.


Yes, it's just you. People love to make up facts to support their beliefs.

If you're on 6 speed, what do you know about 11 speed that could possibly educate you on durability?

If the market wanted fewer gears with wider range it would get that. It doesn't want it even if you do.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

craigsj said:


> Yes, it's just you. People love to make up facts to support their beliefs.
> 
> If you're on 6 speed, what do you know about 11 speed that could possibly educate you on durability?
> 
> If the market wanted fewer gears with wider range it would get that. It doesn't want it even if you do.


shill much lately??

Enjoy your 415$ cassettes, 320$ derailleurs and 57$ chains. You deserve it!

While I enjoy my 12$ 8sp cassettes, 25$ rear D's, and 12$ chains. I had my last cassette and chainring for about 10000km and the chain I used for about 8-9000km or so. The rd now needs new jockey wheels... I also completely forgot to clean my bike (especially the drivetrain, its so yucky) during all that time.

plz let us all know how it goes with your new 12sp


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

car bone said:


> shill much lately??


Who's paying you to spread FUD on the durability of modern drivetrains?



car bone said:


> Enjoy your 415$ cassettes, 320$ derailleurs and 57$ chains. You deserve it!
> 
> While I enjoy my 12$ 8sp cassettes, 25$ rear D's, and 12$ chains. I had my last cassette and chainring for about 10000km and the chain I used for about 8-9000km or so. The rd now needs new jockey wheels... I also completely forgot to clean my bike (especially the drivetrain, its so yucky) during all that time.


So the thing here is that you are poor and, as such, can't afford to enjoy current gear.



car bone said:


> plz let us all know how it goes with your new 12sp


No doubt you will be interested but I don't recall ever claiming I was buying any "new 12p". Your straw man makes you feel good, though, I'm sure.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

craigsj said:


> Who's paying you to spread FUD on the durability of modern drivetrains?
> 
> So the thing here is that you are poor and, as such, can't afford to enjoy current gear.
> 
> No doubt you will be interested but I don't recall ever claiming I was buying any "new 12p". Your straw man makes you feel good, though, I'm sure.


you know god damn well the newer sh1t dont last anywhere near as long as the old 9 and 8sp stuff. None of the components do. Or ever will.

I am poor? Maybe I am? Or maybe I'm smart? I got payed about 7-8k in usd (If i convert it) last month. after taxes (35% or so now), and I was expecting more! I worked hard and long. I _feel_ poor now. I wanted at least 2k more! and I deserved it!

Of course I can afford anything I want bike related but why buy sh1t? I can pay for longevity and durability, but the rest?? well you can keep that sh1t.

But you seem to think this is the best sh1t ever. So I'm guessing you're lining up at the LBS, camping out there for a week or so before release day just like apple fanboys do when a new iphone is released right?

amirite?


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

car bone said:


> you know god damn well the newer sh1t dont last anywhere near as long as the old 9 and 8sp stuff.


No, that's your problem. I don't know that and have no reason to believe it's true, esp regarding 12 speed which doesn't exist. You need to get past your petty prejudices.



car bone said:


> But you seem to think this is the best sh1t ever.


I seem to think that? News to me. I've simply challenge your bulls!t claims, not expressed feelings one way or another.



car bone said:


> So I'm guessing you're lining up at the LBS, camping out there for a week or so before release day just like apple fanboys do when a new iphone is released right?


You're guessing, that's for sure, and your guess is intended to compensate for your feelings of inferiority.

As usual on MTBR, little people throw temper tantrums when things don't go their way.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I feel so inferior right now. and inadequate, and infertile. And all this is because I dont have the new sram 12 speed. Yeah man. FML. really.

I throw temper tantrums?? I don't even know wtf that means but if you say so. Is that a legal term??

--------------------

So craig do you think the new 12sp sram line is more durable/long lived than the sram 8sp (830  ) line or not? measured in kilometers before all of the sh1t is toast?


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

car bone said:


> I feel so inferior right now. and inadequate, and infertile. And all this is because I dont have the new sram 12 speed. Yeah man. FML. really.
> 
> I throw temper tantrums?? I don't even know wtf that means but if you say so. Is that a legal term??


From a guy who just bragged about his monthly income, none of this surprises me.



car bone said:


> So craig do you think the new 12sp sram line is more durable/long lived than the sram 8sp (830  ) line or not?


I have no reason to think one way or another. What I do know is that you have no idea either. Only one of us making claims here.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

craigsj said:


> From a guy who just bragged about his monthly income, none of this surprises me.
> 
> I have no reason to think one way or another. What I do know is that you have no idea either. Only one of us making claims here.


You implied that I was poor for choosing my 12$ cassettes i believe. and poorness (if thats even a real word) had nothing to do with it. Since I'm not poor. 
Are you poor? do you feel inadequate?


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

I think folks are taking this stuff too personal. 

Maybe time for a nice long ride?


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

car bone said:


> You implied that I was poor for choosing my 12$ cassettes i believe. and poorness (if thats even a real word) had nothing to do with it. Since I'm not poor.


You are overly fixated on the expense of modern gear and the remarkably low cost of the gear that you claim to you use. It seems clear that you have an abnormal sensitivity toward money, a fact proven by your subsequent responses.

I'd say you have serious self-esteem issues. Perhaps they stem from poverty, perhaps not. Your concern with how others spend their money, though, is misplaced. The real fear here is you being left behind. The cool kids will have something new and you will not. That's why you keep crapping on new hardware, you want no one to want the new stuff so you won't have to pony up.



car bone said:


> Are you poor? do you feel inadequate?


You keep making the point. Durability of parts is the last of my concerns because I can pay for it. If you made the money you claimed you did, you wouldn't be concerned with having to replace parts.

You're embarrassing yourself, car bone. You fear being judged inadequate, that's why you are constantly making ridiculous boasts. Do yourself a favor and stop commenting.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

cragsj,

Personal attacks aren't cool at all. I'm sure you're an upright guy, but you are doing a fair imitation of a douchebag in that last post. Like I said, people are taking this too personal.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

Ogre said:


> cragsj,
> 
> Personal attacks aren't cool at all. I'm sure you're an upright guy, but you are doing a fair imitation of a douchebag in that last post. Like I said, people are taking this too personal.


I believe in tit-for-tat. Don't like it, go elsewhere. If car bone doesn't want the insults he shouldn't dish them out.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I think someone needs a hug.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

craigsj said:


> I believe in tit-for-tat. Don't like it, go elsewhere. If car bone doesn't want the insults he shouldn't dish them out.


I believe in "Don't-be-a-jerk", you should try it sometime.


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## ludota (Jun 14, 2010)

www.velovert.com/information/11058/sram-eagle-voila-le-1x12-


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## Jboy71 (Aug 6, 2010)

There are people out there (like me) who haven't gone to 1X simply because we'd lose too much range. Being 6' 4" 225 lbs on 30 lb 6 inch travel bike and riding trails that average 2000+ ft of sustained climbing over 4-5 miles, I need the ulta-granny to get to the top (my current setup is 22x36, and it's great!). 28x42 isn't even low enough to keep me from a lot of hike-a-bike on many trails in my area, and 28Tx11T spins out too quickly on the other end. If I could get a functional/durable 30 x 10-50 setup, that would make 1X a lot more attractive.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

From the link ludota posted:


velovert said:


> 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36, 42 et 50


It's like they took their 11 speed with a 42 tooth and added a 50t on top. A nice call, so you have basically the same range as a classic 10 speed cassette with 2 "granny options". With one lever pull you can move from 36 teeth to 50 teeth... something like 45% downshift.

Thats two really big hops up top though, 6t then 8t.

Not likely to be spotted on my bike for quite some time, but intriguing.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Jboy71 said:


> If I could get a functional/durable 30 x 10-50 setup, that would make 1X a lot more attractive.


I suspect 12 speed is going to be limited to expensive not-super-durable aluminum, not entirely clyde friendly setups for some the next couple years. But interesting in the longer term.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

****, I was just about to pull the trigger on an 11 speed setup. I'm going to wait till this 12 comes out.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

You guys that complain about the cassette durability crack me up. I bet none of you have ever worn out a cassette. I was all worried about the aluminum 36t on the xx cassette I used to have. I used it for almost 4 years and that cog was still working ok when I swapped to 11 spd (and I sold the cassette on ebay for $75). The only wear issue with 1x is the front rings.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

92gli said:


> You guys that complain about the cassette durability crack me up. I bet none of you have ever worn out a cassette. I was all worried about the aluminum 36t on the xx cassette I used to have. I used it for almost 4 years and that cog was still working ok when I swapped to 11 spd (and I sold the cassette on ebay for $75). The only wear issue with 1x is the front rings.


I'll take that bet. I've worn out steel cassettes, chainrings, you name it. When you weigh 220-240 pounds and put 50-100 miles a week on a bike, gear wears out fast.

I don't think I've ever had a cassette last 4 years.

Edit: I like the 12-speed setup, I just don't think it qualifies as "Durable". If you want something lightweight with a huge range, it's great. "Durable" ehhh... not so much.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I put exactly 81,25miles a week on my stuff. and it doesn't wear fast. I own 16 casettes.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

92gli said:


> You guys that complain about the cassette durability crack me up. I bet none of you have ever worn out a cassette. I was all worried about the aluminum 36t on the xx cassette I used to have. I used it for almost 4 years and that cog was still working ok when I swapped to 11 spd (and I sold the cassette on ebay for $75). The only wear issue with 1x is the front rings.


I guess you don't ride enough!


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

I'm guessing I'm the only person in existence who is hoping they offer a 12 speed cassette with closer ratios...as well as the 10-50 rumored.


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## tuskenraider (Sep 9, 2012)

The 10-50 exists.......and the new black/gold color scheme option for the XX1 components would have really matched nicely with my recent build, but I'm not interested in 12-speed at this point. I'll leave the release info to SRAM, since they were kind enough to have a showing with our club tonight, which I believe comes tomorrow.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I'm waiting for the 14sp 7-75 personally.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

just kidding. in the future like 10-15 years from now we will all be riding with hydraulic drivetrains. only 2 hoses back and forth. and a continously variable doohickey out back. and I'm the one who will invent it. wait and see... thats how its gonna be. I already have the transfer nailed. Only problem is boundary layer losses. i guess I'll work it out.


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

Doh, sorry. Started another thread.

The information is trickling out... for some reason.

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...sram-eagle-12-speed-real-i-guess-1007191.html


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## tuskenraider (Sep 9, 2012)

The one pic I took.......


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## lml427 (May 13, 2008)

Tuskenraider, this has got your name on it


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## Vanguard (Feb 4, 2014)

Eagle Has Landed SRAM 1x12 is Here in Gold - WheelSizeAgnostic

And gear range comparison:
SRAM 1x12 X01 "Eagle": SRAM Gives us Crazy Gears - WheelSizeAgnostic


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

b-kul said:


> retro grouch cynics drive me nuts but even for a fanboy for all new innovations 12 speeds is a bit much.


You will submit to the marketing hype and purchase as instructed . Your 1x11 is now obsolete and might even be considered unsafe now by a few.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Jboy71 said:


> If I could get a functional/durable 30 x 10-50 setup, that would make 1X a lot more attractive.


And now that we've seen the details, the first 11 gears of their 1x12 cassettes are machined steel... which will likely make it much more durable than the 1x11 aluminum ones.

So... scratch what I said about durability. This one is likely tougher than it's predecessor.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

ziscwg said:


> You will submit to the marketing hype and purchase as instructed . Your 1x11 is now obsolete and might even be considered unsafe now by a few.


Grow up a little and recognize that other people being interested in something new and cool isn't a threat to your fun.

It's possible to appreciate something without running out and buying it. Or to wait until the tech trickles down to reasonable prices. Or maybe you are overdue an upgrade and splurge on something nice. Or maybe you are well enough off that this isn't a huge outlay.

Having a few more choices at the high end is great. It brings down the prices of everything and makes the older good bike technology more affordable for everyone. As others have pointed out, this pushes down the price of 10 speed and 11 speed stuff so everyone benefits here. The front-runners being willing to plop down big dollars for the latest and greatest funds development of new products that benefits us all.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

tuskenraider said:


> The one pic I took.......
> View attachment 1059113


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

People complain when companies don't innovate, so companies innovate, and then people complain that the new stuff is unnecessary and redundant.

Gotta have stepping stones between groundbreaking inventions. Maybe this is the groundbreaker, maybe this is the stepping stone. I personally like it.


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## Mamba29er (Aug 30, 2011)

car bone said:


> shill much lately??
> 
> Enjoy your 415$ cassettes, 320$ derailleurs and 57$ chains. You deserve it!
> 
> ...


You dang kids, get off my lawn!


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## A Little Bird (Oct 15, 2014)

I'm sure others have said this already but the chain is thinner, and the cassette will fit on existing XD drivers. The crankset has some funky looking teeth on it. Almost looks like a worn one after a few thousand miles, their almost hooked.


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## JohnnyVV (Feb 28, 2015)

eicca said:


> People complain when companies don't innovate, so companies innovate, and then people complain that the new stuff is unnecessary and redundant.


Oops, I'll have to read the press release again. I must have missed the part where they innovated.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

JohnnyVV said:


> Oops, I'll have to read the press release again. I must have missed the part where they innovated.


"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if dozens of grognards suddenly cried out in terror. I fear something terrible has happened." - Unknown.


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

A Little Bird said:


> I'm sure others have said this already but the chain is thinner, and the cassette will fit on existing XD drivers. The crankset has some funky looking teeth on it. Almost looks like a worn one after a few thousand miles, their almost hooked.
> 
> View attachment 1059228


From Pinkbike's test ride article they're a different retention design that works better with the narrower chain, and it rides super smooth.


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## Haint (Jan 25, 2012)

Ogre said:


> "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if dozens of grognards suddenly cried out in terror. I fear something terrible has happened." - Unknown.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

This will be great for kids bikes. Eventually.


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## A Little Bird (Oct 15, 2014)

ETChipotle said:


> This will be great for kids bikes. Eventually.


I have no kids, but even if i did i would not love them enough to put a 1500$ drivetrain on their bike :nono:


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Kids? That's funnier than ****! Not that **** is all that funny.


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## JohnnyVV (Feb 28, 2015)

Ogre said:


> "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if dozens of grognards suddenly cried out in terror. I fear something terrible has happened." - Unknown.


So you think my comment's unfair to SRAM? I'm fine with a 1x12; I'm just not going to pretend it's a genuine innovation.



> Grow up a little and recognize that other people being interested in something new and cool isn't a threat to your fun.


Or... Grow up a little and recognize that other people being critical of something new and only marginally improved isn't a threat to _your _fun.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

JohnnyVV said:


> So you think my comment's unfair to SRAM? I'm fine with a 1x12; I'm just not going to pretend it's a genuine innovation.


No, I just use the more traditional definition of the word innovation.

Has anyone made these before? Nope

Do they use manufacturing techniques or processes which haven't been used previously? Yep (machining the cassette out of steel billet instead of stamping it alone is innovation)

I know some people think innovation requires some radical change, but that's not really the case. It's different and clearly better in some ways. That's innovation.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

JohnnyVV said:


> Or... Grow up a little and recognize that other people being critical of something new and only marginally improved isn't a threat to _your _fun.


Eh, criticism and sarcastic whining are not the same. (The sarcastic whining being in the post I replied to here, not in yours)


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

can anyone explain to me what's the deal with the 3mm and 6mm offset chainrings? Is this something related to boost vs non-boost?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mfa81 said:


> can anyone explain to me what's the deal with the 3mm and 6mm offset chainrings? Is this something related to boost vs non-boost?


It most certainly is grasshopper!


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## Keithyk (Feb 3, 2016)

is the 1x12 compatible with existing raceface next sl crank?


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

Keithyk said:


> is the 1x12 compatible with existing raceface next sl crank?


All people who might know, at this point, have a vested intrest in telling you that it isn't


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## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

Keithyk said:


> is the 1x12 compatible with existing raceface next sl crank?


Compatibility? That's not how the bike industry works...


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

The cranks them self are fine, but you will likely need to replace the chainring to accommodate the skinnier chain. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

Am I the only one who wishes they did this 10-50 in a 10 or 11 speed version? Even my 9-44 is too closely spaced most of the time. It's extremely rare that I shift just one or even two gears at a time. If they did a 9-50 10 or 11sp I would be all over it. Not going to buy the 12sp stuff since I have almost the same range right now and I don't want closer spacing. Sometimes I feel like I'm doing something wrong because it seems like most want closer spacing and SRAM went to the trouble of adding another gear with the added range which I assume to keep the spacing to a minimum so why do I feel the need for more spacing to reduce shifting? I should add that when I say I'm not going to buy the 12 speed stuff, that's assuming they don't do a 9-50 and that a 9-50 is not available in a 10 or 11sp by then.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

When is their direct mount 48T chainring going to be available?


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> Am I the only one who wishes they did this 10-50 in a 10 or 11 speed version? Even my 9-44 is too closely spaced most of the time. It's extremely rare that I shift just one or even two gears at a time. If they did a 9-50 10 or 11sp I would be all over it. Not going to buy the 12sp stuff since I have almost the same range right now and I don't want closer spacing. Sometimes I feel like I'm doing something wrong because it seems like most want closer spacing and SRAM went to the trouble of adding another gear with the added range which I assume to keep the spacing to a minimum so why do I feel the need for more spacing to reduce shifting? I should add that when I say I'm not going to buy the 12 speed stuff, that's assuming they don't do a 9-50 and that a 9-50 is not available in a 10 or 11sp by then.


I agree that the OEM spacing is bad for most mountain biking, because 1) the ratios are too close together and 2) the % changes vary greatly from one shift to another.

After trying different combinations, I found that I like the % spacing to be as consistent as possible, with the ratios getting closer in the higher gears. By contrast, the OEMs generally have inconsistent spacing, with closer ratios in the middle and wider ratios up top.

Unfortunately, a lower number of gears is perceived to be inferior or dated. So I don't think the OEMs will be marketing wide-ratio cassettes anytime soon. I think at some point in the future the advantages will get "discovered", but only time will tell. In the meantime you will have to build your own if you want wide ratios. Personally I'm done with close ratios for mountain biking.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

JACKL said:


> I agree that the OEM spacing is bad for most mountain biking, because 1) the ratios are too close together and 2) the % changes vary greatly from one shift to another.
> 
> After trying different combinations, I found that I like the % spacing to be as consistent as possible, with the ratios getting closer in the higher gears. By contrast, the OEMs generally have inconsistent spacing, with closer ratios in the middle and wider ratios up top.
> 
> Unfortunately, a lower number of gears is perceived to be inferior or dated. So I don't think the OEMs will be marketing wide-ratio cassettes anytime soon. I think at some point in the future the advantages will get "discovered", but only time will tell. In the meantime you will have to build your own if you want wide ratios. Personally I'm done with close ratios for mountain biking.


Gear spacing is wider than any time in the past 10 years or so. With 9 speed cassettes the average gap was 15.2%, when 10 speed was introduced it dropped to 14. 5. SRAM's 11-speed increased the average gap between gears to 15.2% and 12-speed is increasing it again because the big 20% gap between 42 and 50.

I haven't checked 7 or 8 speed yet, maybe gaps were bigger then?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

JACKL said:


> I agree that the OEM spacing is bad for most mountain biking, because 1) the ratios are too close together and 2) the % changes vary greatly from one shift to another.


I actually prefer closer ratios, am I doing it wrong?


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> I actually prefer closer ratios, am I doing it wrong?


Absolutely not. I just prefer the wider spacing so much that sometimes I think everyone would. 

What is more important on any aspect of bike setup is to figure out what works best for you and go for that, even if everyone else thinks you are doing it wrong.


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## wooly88 (Sep 1, 2009)

Keithyk said:


> is the 1x12 compatible with existing raceface next sl crank?


I sent an email to Absolute Black asking this question. I have a RF Next SL cinch crankset and want an oval ring that will work with Eagle. I'll report back when I get a response.

They already have on their site that their SRAM oval 12 speed compatible ring will be available in May. I assume their RF cinch version will be available shortly thereafter.


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

JACKL said:


> I agree that the OEM spacing is bad for most mountain biking, because 1) the ratios are too close together and 2) the % changes vary greatly from one shift to another.
> 
> After trying different combinations, I found that I like the % spacing to be as consistent as possible, with the ratios getting closer in the higher gears. By contrast, the OEMs generally have inconsistent spacing, with closer ratios in the middle and wider ratios up top.
> 
> Unfortunately, a lower number of gears is perceived to be inferior or dated. So I don't think the OEMs will be marketing wide-ratio cassettes anytime soon. I think at some point in the future the advantages will get "discovered", but only time will tell. In the meantime you will have to build your own if you want wide ratios. Personally I'm done with close ratios for mountain biking.


I have the exact same preferences. That's why when I saw the 42-50t jump of the new stuff I was impressed. It will probably feel pretty normal. I doubt it will feel like a huge shift. On mine, the 36-44t shift isn't that noticeable. I wouldn't mind the spacing being a little wider. On the flip side, the 10-9 jump is pretty big, almost too big to be useful for performance but obviously there's nothing they can do about that. I only use the 9 for cruising to the trail on occasion. I can see why if they managed to get around the wear and strength issues, along with chain wrap of an 8t, the jump would turn most people off, including myself. 9-10 is the definite limit.


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## wooly88 (Sep 1, 2009)

wooly88 said:


> I sent an email to Absolute Black asking this question. I have a RF Next SL cinch crankset and want an oval ring that will work with Eagle. I'll report back when I get a response.
> 
> They already have on their site that their SRAM oval 12 speed compatible ring will be available in May. I assume their RF cinch version will be available shortly thereafter.


Received an email from Absolute Black saying that their 12 speed cinch rings will be available in a month.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> I have the exact same preferences. That's why when I saw the 42-50t jump of the new stuff I was impressed. It will probably feel pretty normal. I doubt it will feel like a huge shift. On mine, the 36-44t shift isn't that noticeable. I wouldn't mind the spacing being a little wider. On the flip side, the 10-9 jump is pretty big, almost too big to be useful for performance but obviously there's nothing they can do about that. I only use the 9 for cruising to the trail on occasion. I can see why if they managed to get around the wear and strength issues, along with chain wrap of an 8t, the jump would turn most people off, including myself. 9-10 is the definite limit.


People underestimate the benefit of the xD driver. Having that 10t or 9t ring has a huge impact on the cassettes range. With an 11t bottom ring, you need a 55t big ring to get the same range. Until Shimano latches onto something that enables smaller cassettes, they are going to struggle to match the range and weight SRAM offers. They can probably ship 55 tooth cassettes but they will be beefier.

(Shimano still has plenty of other advantages, a ton of fans, and arguably much better prices so they aren't exactly in danger here though)


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

Shimano already has a working solution. They sold it for years under "Capreo" brand, with 9-26 cassettes meant for small wheel bikes (recumbents, folding bikes, mini velos). Shimano, if they wanted to, could introduce 9-46 or 9-50 cassette pretty much overnight.

I reckon they don't do so to differentiate themselves from SRAM.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2016)

BuickGN said:


> On mine, the 36-44t shift isn't that noticeable. ... On the flip side, the 10-9 jump is pretty big, almost too big to be useful ...


How is a jump of 22% (44/36) not that "noticeable" when 11% is "almost too big to be useful"? You realize the 36-44 jump is twice as big?


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> Shimano already has a working solution. They sold it for years under "Capreo" brand, with 9-26 cassettes meant for small wheel bikes (recumbents, folding bikes, mini velos). Shimano, if they wanted to, could introduce 9-46 or 9-50 cassette pretty much overnight.
> 
> I reckon they don't do so to differentiate themselves from SRAM.


Capreo requires a special driver and is 9 speed. It is not a solution for 11-12 speed. If updated, it would still be inferior to the XD driver. Lots of interlocking parts means extra weight and no one needs the 9-10-11 progression. Capreo is made for small wheels, not wide range.

Yes, if Shimano could introduce a competitor quickly, not "overnight", but it would not be because of Capreo.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

craigsj said:


> Capreo requires a special driver


Unlike XD, which does not need special driver?



> and is 9 speed.


So? Canfield Brothers offered their microdrive (which is the same hub) at 10 speed for years.



> It is not a solution for 11-12 speed.


Why? Use the same principle as always - thinner cogs, more cogs fitted to hub.



> If updated, it would still be inferior to the XD driver.


Why?



> Lots of interlocking parts means extra weight


About 90% of weight of a cassette is in the biggest 4-5 cogs. Are you trying to suggest that having a billet of steel machined, or steel plates joined by about 9000 pins is superior? You can make an entire capreo style cassette using a single machine and 2-3 stage process. If shimano wanted to, they could offer Acera level 9T drivers. They have the technology and capability of doing so.



> and no one needs the 9-10-11 progression.


Arbiter of truth, tell me more. Also, then make 10-12-14 progression, or 9-10-12 progression (as canfield bros do)



> Capreo is made for small wheels, not wide range.


And bicycles were made for riding on paved roads in a peloton...



> Yes, if Shimano could introduce a competitor quickly, not "overnight", but it would not be because of Capreo.


No. Literally it would take more time to validate and certify the design and ramp up production then to design it. If shimano wanted to, it would take 2-3 months before those would be available. They did so before. They introduced 10 speed by merely updating existing XT/XTR/SLX gruppos one season after SRAM regurgitated XX.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

craigsj said:


> How is a jump of 22% (44/36) not that "noticeable" when 11% is "almost too big to be useful"? You realize the 36-44 jump is twice as big?


After experimenting with my own gear combinations, I can say that a big % jump in the lower gears is much more tolerable than a big % jump in the higher gears. The 1-2 shift on my 11-34 6-speed is 34t to 26t which is 31% and works great for me. However if I had that percentage going into high gear it would suck. I actually still like a 1-tooth increment at the top, although I am currently running the typical 13t to 11t (18%).

In the higher gears the velocity of the bike is more constant, and more power is required at the pedals just to maintain speed. You are more likely to get "stuck" at a lower or higher cadence.

That said 11% is a pretty close ratio in my book.

I will say that when pedaling up a steep constant climb in the mountains, it does sort of simulate the being in the higher gears. I Washington I did find my 1-2 shift much more noticeable on the climbs up the mountain (although still not really a problem for me).

I find my body has adapted quite nicely to the wider gaps and it makes the riding experience better. Sort of like single-speeding, while still maintaining whatever range I want / need.


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

Nevermind.


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

craigsj said:


> How is a jump of 22% (44/36) not that "noticeable" when 11% is "almost too big to be useful"? You realize the 36-44 jump is twice as big?


I know it's already been said but wider gaps are much more tolerable and don't seem as large in the lower gears. In the higher gears large gaps are MUCH more noticeable. Just looking at a percentage on paper doesn't tell the whole story.

The 22% jump in the low gears feels half as big as the 11% in the top gear shift.
11% is extremely noticeable when you're already loaded down and putting some torque through the drivetrain. Imagine doing leg presses. In one scenario you're doing 100lbs and someone adds 22% onto it. No big deal, it's not that noticeable. Now get it closer to max, say 600lbs and add 11% onto it. You will notice it.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

BuickGN said:


> I know it's already been said but wider gaps are much more tolerable and don't seem as large in the lower gears. In the higher gears large gaps are MUCH more noticeable. Just looking at a percentage on paper doesn't tell the whole story.
> 
> The 22% jump in the low gears feels half as big as the 11% in the top gear shift.
> 11% is extremely noticeable when you're already loaded down and putting some torque through the drivetrain. Imagine doing leg presses. In one scenario you're doing 100lbs and someone adds 22% onto it. No big deal, it's not that noticeable. Now get it closer to max, say 600lbs and add 11% onto it. You will notice it.


Nah ... any way you look at it 42 to 50 is a huge gap. I am on 1145 and I really appreciate the spacing. 35 - 40 - 45 works great although 35-40-46 would be even better (it is coming, thanks Shim).

12 gears to get 42 to 50 is a bit silly: you get this huge cassette, 9 gears between 12 and 42, flanked by two 20-22% gears: a bailout (50) and overdrive (10). Good for machines: not for humans! At the low end the only reason for that is to avoid the re-tooling of the cassette that would otherwise be necessary. At the high end it happens because of the 10 cog. 10 to 11 is too close, 10 to 20 very long ...


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

uzurpator said:


> Shimano already has a working solution. They sold it for years under "Capreo" brand, with 9-26 cassettes meant for small wheel bikes (recumbents, folding bikes, mini velos). Shimano, if they wanted to, could introduce 9-46 or 9-50 cassette pretty much overnight.
> 
> I reckon they don't do so to differentiate themselves from SRAM.


I don't doubt Shimano's ability to crank out something good (or adapt some existing tech), it's just not going to happen "overnight". It takes time to get OEMs to adopt new standards and sometimes they don't take off at all. Even if Cabreo is suitable, it hasn't been used on mountain bikes.

It took a while for xd to take off as well. It's unfortunate that Shimano won't adopt XD, it would make things simpler for everyone.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Davide said:


> 12 gears to get 42 to 50 is a bit silly: you get this huge cassette, 9 gears between 12 and 42, flanked by two 20-22% gears: a bailout (50) and overdrive (10). Good for machines: not for humans! At the low end the only reason for that is to avoid the re-tooling of the cassette that would otherwise be necessary. At the high end it happens because of the 10 cog. 10 to 11 is too close, 10 to 20 very long ...


Having a big chunk of your drivetrain dedicated to the most common use cases is good engineering. That's one of the things they really did right here. Most of the gears are at fairly normal 13-18% jumps with the biggest and smallest gears with the biggest gaps. Those are likely the least commonly used gears. A big gap on the ends they allow a much greater range without sacrificing the benefits of closer spaced gears where most riding is done.


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## Keithyk (Feb 3, 2016)

Absolute Black catch up pretty fast huh.. any news that race face going to release the chainring for 1x12?


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Keithyk said:


> is the 1x12 compatible with existing raceface next sl crank?


Cranks are cranks. So yes. The current race face chainrings... Maybe. Sounds like sram just decreased the thickness of the chain plates again, so I wouldn't be surprised if the 12 speed chains work with all of the "10 and 11 speed" chainrings.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

^^Thats what I've been reading. The inner width of the chain is the same. It's the outer that's thinner. So whatever n/w you got now should work.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

RS VR6 said:


> ^^Thats what I've been reading. The inner width of the chain is the same. It's the outer that's thinner. So whatever n/w you got now should work.


All (derailleur)chains are 3/32 inner width and have been for decades. You can run 1970's "5 speed" chainrings with your 12 speed system.


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

Davide said:


> Nah ... any way you look at it 42 to 50 is a huge gap. I am on 1145 and I really appreciate the spacing. 35 - 40 - 45 works great although 35-40-46 would be even better (it is coming, thanks Shim).
> 
> 12 gears to get 42 to 50 is a bit silly: you get this huge cassette, 9 gears between 12 and 42, flanked by two 20-22% gears: a bailout (50) and overdrive (10). Good for machines: not for humans! At the low end the only reason for that is to avoid the re-tooling of the cassette that would otherwise be necessary. At the high end it happens because of the 10 cog. 10 to 11 is too close, 10 to 20 very long ...


It's only a huge gap on paper. I haven't tried a 42-50 jump but a 36-44 is nothing. It's not large enough if anything, it does not feel like a bailout, just a normal downshift. I have no doubt that the 42-50 feels like a normal downshift as people who have tried the cassette have stated. Those Shimano and SRAM engineers know a lot more than we do about this stuff. Assuming the engineers have free reign and don't have to worry about marketing, they're going to design a product that performs well and that includes shift quality and perception. If that jump were too much and with 12 gears to play with, they would not have it. I'm attracted to the product because with a 42-50 jump, it might actually feel like a full one gear downshift, maybe even a bailout gear.

A gear that's treated as an overdrive is fine. That's how I look at my 9t with a 30t chain ring. It's a big jump from 10 to 9. Forget percentages, in real life, it loads the legs down lots more. I use it to get to and from trails and on downhills where I'm going faster than I should be going but I feel like pedaling anyway. I still have 10 gears that are spaced very well to play with and one for the street. I thought people were wishing for something like that back when we were discussing the advantages of a 2x or 3x. Now an overdrive is looked down upon...... And technically every gear with a lower numerical value than your chain ring is an overdrive.... just saying... I guess that's the difference in a 90rpm human vs a 7,000rpm machine.

But being serious, this gap percentage on paper vs real life really needs to be revisited and talked about because I don't think it's well understood. I'll just end it with saying the same percentage gap in your lowest gear is much, much less noticeable than the same percentage gap in your highest gear. A 9-10 feels huge. A 36-44 feels small, almost too small. I wish it had a few more teeth.


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

Ogre said:


> Having a big chunk of your drivetrain dedicated to the most common use cases is good engineering. That's one of the things they really did right here. Most of the gears are at fairly normal 13-18% jumps with the biggest and smallest gears with the biggest gaps. Those are likely the least commonly used gears. A big gap on the ends they allow a much greater range without sacrificing the benefits of closer spaced gears where most riding is done.


Exactly. A bailout and an overdrive with closer spaced "performance" gears that will see 90% of the use in the middle. I just wish the bailouts were more extreme.


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

Shayne said:


> All (derailleur)chains are 3/32 inner width and have been for decades. You can run 1970's "5 speed" chainrings with your 12 speed system.


I learn something new everyday. I guess that illustrates why strength has gone down. Is there no exotic but semi-affordable chain material that will give strength and wear resistance? I've got one of the overpriced KMC DLC chains and while it's light and strong and it supposedly lasts a long time according to reviews, when I shortened it I saw that the expensive DLC coating was only on the outside. The parts that actually rub and wear were bare.

I would pay a premium for a chain that would last a while. I'm already getting ready to pull the trigger on a stainless chainring. Hopfully the DLC chain works like designed even though I don't like how they did the coating and combined with the stainless chain ring, the only thing I'll have to replace semi regularly is the cassette. Luckily for me that's only $100 since it's available in 3 sections.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Shayne said:


> All (derailleur)chains are 3/32 inner width and have been for decades. You can run 1970's "5 speed" chainrings with your 12 speed system.


If that's the case, then is there any particular reason why Wolf Tooth would recommend using a 10sp chain on a 9sp drivetrain with their Drop Stop rings?


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

uzurpator said:


> Shimano already has a working solution. They sold it for years under "Capreo" brand, with 9-26 cassettes meant for small wheel bikes (recumbents, folding bikes, mini velos). Shimano, if they wanted to, could introduce 9-46 or 9-50 cassette pretty much overnight.


I agree. I bought into this stuff which is what Canfield Brothers had with the Micro-9 set up. It was great!! A little heavy but the 10 speed 9-40 cassette I was running for a few years was great!! I just recently went toward 11 speed, 9-44 in the attempt to make it work as a 1x (my 10 speed set up was 2x). So again, wish that Capreo set up would make a return. Great idea, great concept!


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> I learn something new everyday. I guess that illustrates why strength has gone down.


I would love to see some testing on this. When I rode 8 speed I wore out chains, I wear out chains now. I know a lot of people claim newer stuff wears out faster but I haven't seen any solid testing to back that up.

I know if you use the same material, a thinner piece which serves the same purpose wears out faster, but the bike industry has been evolving. The steel we use in bike components isn't the same grade steel we used 15 years ago. Steel frames for example are considerably lighter and just as strong. Considering the importance of the chain to bike function, I expect they will have improved materials and manufacturing at a similar pace.

IMO, this would be a great experiment. Maybe 2 bikes running an 8 speed drive train with 8 speed and SRAM's brand new 12 speed chains? Or perhaps set up as single speeds to accelerate the process.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

I did a little experiment. I superimposed the XX1 derailleur over a XX1 Eagle one.

Damn, the new thing is massive.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

Gv


A Little Bird said:


> I'm sure others have said this already but the chain is thinner, and the cassette will fit on existing XD drivers. The crankset has some funky looking teeth on it. Almost looks like a worn one after a few thousand miles, their almost hooked.
> View attachment 1059228


 interesting as I was quizzing the people at jenson USA and my lbs and both told me the new sram 12sp took a special driver to make it work . My question to them was what about Chris king and other hubs needing to make drivers and they told me that in the beginning people would have to use a SRAM hub with a special driver just for the 12 speed . They indicated the xd driver would not work


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## SiO2 (Jul 4, 2007)

blacksheep5150 said:


> Gv interesting as I was quizzing the people at jenson USA and my lbs and both told me the new sram 12sp took a special driver to make it work . My question to them was what about Chris king and other hubs needing to make drivers and they told me that in the beginning people would have to use a SRAM hub with a special driver just for the 12 speed . They indicated the xd driver would not work


I've already preordered the Eagle drive train from Jenson. They said 5-6 weeks. Talked to them today and they are now saying they won't be getting any Eagle shipments from QBP (their sram distributor) until mid July. Does anybody know what is the quickest way to get an Eagle group set? I want to build a new Hiightower with a boost Fox 36 rc2 fork and the new eagle drivetrain. Talked to fox today and their 2017 forks will ship next week. Now I need a 1x12 drivetrain.


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## Clymbo (Oct 17, 2010)

blacksheep5150 said:


> Gv interesting as I was quizzing the people at jenson USA and my lbs and both told me the new sram 12sp took a special driver to make it work . My question to them was what about Chris king and other hubs needing to make drivers and they told me that in the beginning people would have to use a SRAM hub with a special driver just for the 12 speed . They indicated the xd driver would not work


from the sram xg-1299-eagle-cassette product page: 
"XD™ driver body compatible"

From Pinkbike artricle titled, First Ride: SRAM's 12-Speed Eagle Drivetrain
"The chain itself is slightly narrower than an 11-speed chain, and the pins on each link are now completely flush with each side, a space saving measure that allowed SRAM to squeeze in that extra cog without needing to resort to a different driver body."

I'm planning to pre-order based on the above being true, that my existing xd driver will work with both 11 and 12.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

Clymbo said:


> from the sram xg-1299-eagle-cassette product page:
> "XD driver body compatible"
> 
> From Pinkbike artricle titled, First Ride: SRAM's 12-Speed Eagle Drivetrain
> ...


Guess jenson usa should quit telling people opposite


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

So I have to ask, so don't shoot me, I'm just trying to understand at what point moving unsprung weight to sprung weight stops being attractive?

If you look at the weight of a 10 speed XTR cassette compared to the Eagle, you've added a 1/4 lb to the rear wheel. So just wondering for those that are buying this, at what point does adding weight to the worst place continue to be worth it.

After all, the 1x trend started from saving the immense weight of a shifter and FD. But now you're adding a ton to the wheel.


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## Clymbo (Oct 17, 2010)

TwoTone said:


> So I have to ask, so don't shoot me, I'm just trying to understand at what point moving unsprung weight to sprung weight stops being attractive?
> 
> If you look at the weight of a 10 speed XTR cassette compared to the Eagle, you've added a 1/4 lb to the rear wheel. So just wondering for those that are buying this, at what point does adding weight to the worst place continue to be worth it.
> 
> After all, the 1x trend started from saving the immense weight of a shifter and FD. But now you're adding a ton to the wheel.


I raced with 2x and 3x for years and had enough incidents with dropped chains (while front shifting), bent front derailleurs etc that I welcomed the idea of xx1 before even considering the weight savings. It simplified shifting and resulted in less problems for me. The weight savings just made it that much better. I read that difference in weight between the xx1 11 cassette and new 12 is 87 grams. Just last week I rode a combination of steep single track and fire roads where I was wishing for just a little more gear range so I have have no problem adding 87 grams for something that I will use even though I very much care about weight.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> So I have to ask, so don't shoot me, I'm just trying to understand at what point moving unsprung weight to sprung weight stops being attractive?
> 
> If you look at the weight of a 10 speed XTR cassette compared to the Eagle, you've added a 1/4 lb to the rear wheel. So just wondering for those that are buying this, at what point does adding weight to the worst place continue to be worth it.


The Shimano front shifter weighs about the same (120g). I'm not entirely convinced that having weight low on the rear wheel is worse than having weight high above the front wheel. In general the lower weight is on a bike, the better.

Regardless, I don't this it's a big issue because...



> After all, the 1x trend started from saving the immense weight of a shifter and FD. But now you're adding a ton to the wheel.


You are working from a false assumption. The 1x trend started because having dual shifters is a crappy riding experience. The inevitable grind of the front derailleur against the chain is like fingernails on the chalkboard. The extra maintenance, the inevitable mis-shifts, dropped chains, crossed chains, etc. it just wasn't worth the headaches.

Weight is an issue, but it was never the primary issue. It is the same reason single speeding is appealing. Less complexity, fewer breakdowns, fewer things to adjust.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Ogre said:


> The Shimano front shifter weighs about the same (120g). I'm not entirely convinced that having weight low on the rear wheel is worse than having weight high above the front wheel. In general the lower weight is on a bike, the better.
> 
> Regardless, I don't this it's a big issue because...
> 
> ...


Well I supposed I'm one of the rare few you read about that never had all the issues so many seem to have with FDs.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Yep. My friend has had FD issues since day 1 and can't wait for Eagle. Always a slow shift or grinding driving him crazy and taking away from his all-day rides. I've never had FD issues in terms of noise, grinding, dropped chains or slow shifting since. Been riding 1x since 2012 when not on a SS, but my next frame will be Shimano di2 in a 2x. My road bike is di2 and the front shifts so quick and fast and self adjusts for chain angle that it brings a smile to my roadie scowl, ha.
To each their own. 1x, 2x or 3x (which I saw a few pros running triples at a National Ultra Endurance event). I asked a hall of fame endurance athlete why he races 1X at the gnarly 100 milers. Answer: sponsor requirements otherwise he'd be on 2x for his racing worldwide.


TwoTone said:


> Well I supposed I'm one of the rare few you read about that never had all the issues so many seem to have with FDs.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> Well I supposed I'm one of the rare few you read about that never had all the issues so many seem to have with FDs.


There are a fair number of people who like front derailleur a just fine. I think I saw a survey which suggests about 1 in 5 people still plan on buying a bike with a 2x drivetrain.

It's interesting that SRAM says they are dropping development on their front derailleur entirely. Seems like it leaves a pretty decent sized chunk of the market to Shimano uncontested.


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## tealy (Mar 7, 2013)

okay


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

tealy said:


> I tried 1x10 for a year and hated every minute of it. Always had to double and triple shift. Limited range. Limited life. Dropped chains all over the place.


I suspect people who struggle with 1x setups are people who don't know how to shift.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

TwoTone said:


> Well I supposed I'm one of the rare few you read about that never had all the issues so many seem to have with FDs.


Me too.
(In my area we're popular on the trails, just rare on-line)


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Well I supposed I'm one of the rare few you read about that never had all the issues so many seem to have with FDs.


Same here. Although I'm running 1X, if I need more gearing I would hard at going back to 2X with newer wide range cassettes. 3X - yuck.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

DrDon said:


> Same here. Although I'm running 1X, if I need more gearing I would hard at going back to 2X with newer wide range cassettes. 3X - yuck.


I wouldnt want anything but 1x at this point . Im putting the e13 cassette on next week and if i need more then that , i guess its to the mountains for more training and get stronger


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

tealy said:


> I ran lower-end front derailleurs for over a decade. Never had a failure. Rarely had to adjust. Dropped a chain once a year maybe. I suspect people who hate FDs are people who don't know how to shift.


That is exactly the point. For most people a RD is far more forgiving in terms of when you shift. Hence getting rid of the FD that you have to "know how to shift" is a bonus. I know I love my 1x setup. It is so much less in my face when riding. I just ride (until I broke the XX1 shifter and had to ride the rest of the way on a 25 mile ride with only one gear  ).


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

I will patiently wait and see if shimano develops 12 speed. The range is huge but the jumps are too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Any other chainring manufacturer already announced compatible chainrings? Need to replace a cassette and derailleur, would like to go to 1x12 but I have a RaceFace Turbine Cinch crank which I like a lot more that the XX1 crank (actually broke one once).


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

wolftooth/absolutblack cinch say they are compatible


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## OneUp (Nov 26, 2013)

HDTVdevil said:


> Any other chainring manufacturer already announced compatible chainrings? Need to replace a cassette and derailleur, would like to go to 1x12 but I have a RaceFace Turbine Cinch crank which I like a lot more that the XX1 crank (actually broke one once).


The inner chain width has changed very little. Despite some brands announcing compatibility in a way that makes it look like they've done something to achieve it, it appears as though all existing aftermarket options are still a go. Ours certainly are. If you like RF stick with it!

Jon @ OneUp


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## Leisureclass (Dec 9, 2015)

Need opinions, currently riding 2x9 drivetrain but might as well be a 1x9. Im pre ordering a new bike soonand am wondering if the new Sram Eagle 1x12 is worth the $$ or if the 1x11 is sufficient. (its a $300 upgrade for 1x12) 
Anyone riding AM with 1x11 have an opinion? Do you feel like you need more speed variety?


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

You are aware sram just anounced an electric specific drivetrain where they basically admit the current stuff is ****.

let me repost it for you.

issues with current stuff:



> Those issues can be boiled down to the following:
> 
> Shifting under power is rough and clunky
> The shift steps don't make enough of a difference
> The durability of the drivetrain


surprise surprise!!!!


> The 8-speed design incorporates big (30-percent average) steps between gears. The big steps, in combination with the EX1 group's single-action shift lever, reduces riders' tendency to double shift. The single-shift design significantly helps chain and cassette wear.


back to 8sp again.. (I'm on 6sp with 8sp spacing and 8sp chain though for ages, no need to be a rocket suregeon to figure out how this **** works)



> The cassette, machined from case-hardened tool steel, is narrower than a 10- or 11-speed cassette, which helps maintain a straighter chain line throughout the gear range. Engineers were then able to pair the cassette with a slightly wider, tougher chain to increase durability,


is that so?? really?? a wider chain is better??


> The high torque loads of E-MTBs require tough components. The straighter chain line EX1 offers allows the use of a chain that is wider and more robust than those found on drivetrains not specifically engineered for E-MTBs.




SRAM EX1 e-bike component group first look - Mtbr.com enjoy.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Leisureclass said:


> Need opinions, currently riding 2x9 drivetrain but might as well be a 1x9. Im pre ordering a new bike soonand am wondering if the new Sram Eagle 1x12 is worth the $$ or if the 1x11 is sufficient. (its a $300 upgrade for 1x12)
> Anyone riding AM with 1x11 have an opinion? Do you feel like you need more speed variety?


Go for 1x. Going from 2x10 to 1x11 and i never regretted it. Sure, your range is more limited (1x12 solves most of that) but i notice that on the paved roads towards the trailheads.

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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Car boner? Why you talkin' ebike **** here?


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Car boner? Why you talkin' ebike **** here?


theyre basically admitting everything above 8sp is **** so why not include this in the equation?

Am i enterpreting things wrong here? Its pretty black and white from where I'm reading..

wouldnt you say?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

car bone said:


> theyre basically admitting everything above 8sp is **** so why not include this in the equation?
> 
> Am i enterpreting things wrong here? Its pretty black and white from where I'm reading..
> 
> wouldnt you say?


Boner! Don't be duuummmmbbbbbb! Ebikes are a whole different breed. They make more power than our legs could ever make. What works for a MTB isn't going to work well for an ebike. 8 speeds is probably all they need. Look at motorcycles. You don't see them with 11 and 12 speeds, do you?


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Boner! Don't be duuummmmbbbbbb! Ebikes are a whole different breed. They make more power than our legs could ever make. What works for a MTB isn't going to work well for an ebike. 8 speeds is probably all they need. Look at motorcycles. You don't see them with 11 and 12 speeds, do you?


Meh for the type of riding I do where my climbing is fire roads and the little punch climbs don't require as exact gear, I wouldn't mind the 8 speed.

Chain will last longer and now they can manufacture lighter cassettes. Give me that total gear range to make it 1x and I'd be onboard.


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## sherwin24 (Jul 23, 2010)

Didn't see anyone touch on this yet, but maybe they did. Seems to me the biggest reason for a 50T is so you can run a bigger front chainring? Don't most suspensions work best with a smaller chainring? If so, only reason I see for this would be xc racing where you are using lockout on climbs or riding a hardtail. For my trails a 32T front, 11-36 rear is almost perfect, but the 10-42 offers just enough more top speed and enough bailout when I am just gassed. 50T has its place, just not for most people I wouldn't think.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

sherwin24 said:


> Didn't see anyone touch on this yet, but maybe they did. Seems to me the biggest reason for a 50T is so you can run a bigger front chainring? Don't most suspensions work best with a smaller chainring? If so, only reason I see for this would be xc racing where you are using lockout on climbs or riding a hardtail. For my trails a 32T front, 11-36 rear is almost perfect, but the 10-42 offers just enough more top speed and enough bailout when I am just gassed. 50T has its place, just not for most people I wouldn't think.


I think it has more to do with where you live and ride , I did a 35 mile ride last weekend that had 5500 ft of climbing .for my 54 year old legs the more the day wears on , the more tired legs are . So this may be something I will consider . Right now I run a 28 up front and a e 13 9-44 .. It works everywhere locally I ride , but when I travel and climb for 20 plus miles , need every advantage ..


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## NorCalTaz (Nov 12, 2013)

Leisureclass said:


> Need opinions, currently riding 2x9 drivetrain but might as well be a 1x9. Im pre ordering a new bike soonand am wondering if the new Sram Eagle 1x12 is worth the $$ or if the 1x11 is sufficient. (its a $300 upgrade for 1x12)
> Anyone riding AM with 1x11 have an opinion? Do you feel like you need more speed variety?


More or less in the same boat, considering going with an Eagle upgrade ($300 as well), just not sure it is worth the wait. Being told it might be a week or two, but am seeing the release date on websites as sometime in August. Another consideration is the $360 replacment cost of a cassette. Anyone out there actually have an Eagle setup yet ?


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

Clydesdale chiming in here. I like the idea of 12 speed for a couple of reasons. I'm a clyde not because I'm some total fat ass, but just a big dude. 6'3" 240ish when in shape and right now admittedly out of shape and heaviest I've ever been at 270 but as a former athlete and personal trainer for a dozen years I'm a lot more muscle than fat. I currently run a 1x10 with 30 up front and 11-36 in the back. I'm actually pretty happy with those for low gears as where I ride there aren't any prolonged climbs. The problem is there are lots of long flat straights or gentle downhills, not to mention the monthly "urban assault" ride I do with my club where we are on pavement half of the time. I would love to have some more top end. Realistically, Sram 11 speed with it's 10 tooth cog is probably all I would need and if anything, I would possibly want a 12th gear to keep shift jumps closer, not necessarily another really low gear. But hell, if I had a 50 tooth in the back even my big behind could go with a 36 up front and have incredible range and super ease of use. 

The trails here in Tampa FL are made from old phosphate mines so we have very short steep, roller coasterish type of hills. They come and go so quickly it would be quite awkward manipulating front and rear shifts at the same time.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

i definitely see a use for a 50t cog. if you dont, then don't get it. you're probably not having true big climbs, or use a smaller than 32t chainring. that's totally fine, but that doesn't mean it's not useful for many.

for the price diff thought.. ill push the bike from time to time and i'd rather hope x01 11 speed cassette price wil go down (my GX is a tad heavy and doesnt shift as well as my x01 cassette..)


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## Leisureclass (Dec 9, 2015)

I like the idea of running a 36 tooth up front, but the cassette replacement even on Jensen is like $470. Not sure I want to sign up for that unless the prices come down.


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## deck (Jul 5, 2008)

Does anyone know if the chain has been released, or know of somewhere that may have them? I have everything else set-up and ready to go.


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## Leisureclass (Dec 9, 2015)

SRAM PC-XX1 Eagle 12 Speed Chain > Components > Drivetrain > Chains | Jenson USA


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## deck (Jul 5, 2008)

Leisureclass said:


> SRAM PC-XX1 Eagle 12 Speed Chain > Components > Drivetrain > Chains | Jenson USA


Thanks, but they're backordered. I actually placed an order with Jenson the other day because it's the only place I've even seen the chains listed. They do not have an ETA on them either.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

arts says it's gonna be available July, 14th. Worth giving them a call


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

First ride last night on my Eagle setup, its good! The range is incredible and I am now running a 36 up front from a 34.

Shifting is good, still the usual SRAM feel which you either love or hate (I'm not a huge fan of the feel of the shifting but I can put up with it for the range available!).


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

mfa81 said:


> arts says it's gonna be available July, 14th. Worth giving them a call


European dealers are giving end of august/september dates


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Rick Draper said:


> First ride last night on my Eagle setup, its good! The range is incredible and I am now running a 36 up front from a 34.
> 
> Shifting is good, still the usual SRAM feel which you either love or hate (I'm not a huge fan of the feel of the shifting but I can put up with it for the range available!).


Same move that I'm planning. Got a 34/32 oval upfront and would go for the 36/34 one. Just need to get my hands on a set of Eagle parts. Need to continue with my broken rear-derailleur (refusing to shift to the 2 biggest cogs) until the eagle parts are available here.

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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

HDTVdevil said:


> European dealers are giving end of august/september dates


Im in Europe and thats where all my parts came from.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Rick Draper said:


> Im in Europe and thats where all my parts came from.


Where did you order?

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

HDTVdevil said:


> Where did you order?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


Bike24. They had it all in last week.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Rick Draper said:


> Bike24. They had it all in last week.


Order has been placed 

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## deck (Jul 5, 2008)

mfa81 said:


> arts says it's gonna be available July, 14th. Worth giving them a call


Art's just bumped it back to August 4th. I just placed an order with Bike24 and will update when I receive it.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Ogre said:


> Having a big chunk of your drivetrain dedicated to the most common use cases is good engineering. That's one of the things they really did right here. Most of the gears are at fairly normal 13-18% jumps with the biggest and smallest gears with the biggest gaps. Those are likely the least commonly used gears. A big gap on the ends they allow a much greater range without sacrificing the benefits of closer spaced gears where most riding is done.


More than engineering it is stupidity. The "overdrive" might make sense for a car, but for a bike you want a nice equispaced progression in your gears: no jumps, thank you.


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## deck (Jul 5, 2008)

deck said:


> Art's just bumped it back to August 4th. I just placed an order with Bike24 and will update when I receive it.


I just got word from Bike24 that they're a couple weeks out too.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

deck said:


> I just got word from Bike24 that they're a couple weeks out too.


The black version of the chain was delayed for 2 weeks, so I told to ship with the gold version instead (guess the color will wear off after a while). And it looks like they are preparing to ship today ... i hope. I should it by friday and hopefully, mh wife lets install before riding on sunday.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

Davide said:


> More than engineering it is stupidity. The "overdrive" might make sense for a car, but for a bike you want a nice equispaced progression in your gears: no jumps, thank you.


Iunno I see that argument a lot, but me and my ride buddies always switch 2 gears up or down minimum on our 1x11 speeds...
To me that means it'd be fine on 1x6...

And yes, my mtb cadence is not always a round 90rpm or whatever. but that's mtb we're talking about and even with 50 gears that would still not be a round 90rpm. on my road bike i need that many gears and keep a steady cadence. on the mtb its just not how it work. timing pedal strikes, leverage needs, etc. its always changing.


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## Velosprocket (Feb 15, 2009)

*Loving my Eagle group!*

I only have about 200 miles on the group so far, but wow, I'm in love with it!


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## Velosprocket (Feb 15, 2009)

The gold chains are available on ebay, in case anybody is in a hurry to get the group installed. Just an FYI. They're popping up at different shops too. I ordered an extra from R & A Cycles. They're now out of stock.


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## zeeke (May 10, 2006)

I got my boost 148 cranks and chain at starbike last week if anyone was looking.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

Serious question: given the issues that both SRAM & Shimano have with 1x11 setups related to chainline / dropping low gears backpedaling, why does this thing even exist? I mean, if they want to grab some more money from us, why not just invent a new BB / crank setup that is actually designed for low gear, MTB 1x11 setups?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Andeh said:


> why does this thing even exist?


It exists so people can have the same ~500% gear range on a 1x that used to require 2 or 3 rings. Whether or not this system is prone to derailing while backpedaling isn't yet known as far as I know. Cassette width is nearly identical to 11 speed so chainline issues should be about the same, and there seems to be a lot of good 11-speed setups out there.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> It exists so people can have the same ~500% gear range on a 1x that used to require 2 or 3 rings. Whether or not this system is prone to derailing while backpedaling isn't yet known as far as I know. Cassette width is nearly identical to 11 speed so chainline issues should be about the same, and there seems to be a lot of good 11-speed setups out there.


Yes x 1,000.

Several people talk about the e*thirteen cassettes with 9-42. As if SRAM hadn't thought of a 9T cog. They said way back when XX1 11 speed released that even though the XD driver and one-piece cassette could support smaller than 10T, they didn't do it, because there was too much chain angularity. Meaning 9 links to go around in a circle are not round enough, and you'll lose a lot of efficiency from the friction. (Not to mention gear and chain wear.)

The other thing mentioned is how super-wide cassettes would be fine. Yeah, except they wouldn't. We all know that you sometimes shift up several gears at once, and very frequently shift down a lot of gears at once. But how happy will you be when those are your ONLY choices, what would otherwise be 2 gear jumps? MTB is not road riding, I get it. But being forced to go from 90 rpm cadence to 60 is not going to be smooth.

When you shift 2-3 gears at once, you're still dragging the chain smoothly over 12-20% gear differences, rather than >30 in one shot. I am pretty certain that even if you have enough chainwrap capacity, big gear jumps won't shift as smoothly as smaller ones. A small legion of folks who have put various big replacement cogs on their cassettes like Wolftooth and OneUp can attest to this.

So, no. I'm not a SRAM fanboy.

But I also don't think they are stupid and small companies can easily develop technology that works 'just as well'. If you've looked closely at a SRAM 11 speed derailleur, XD driver and cassette you can see that they did in fact find a way to improve upon something that's been around a LONG time. Now they've done it again with 1x12 Eagle. Mainly, the chain, but hey - it's still innovation.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

Note: gold anodizing (titanium nitride) doesn't wear off, unlike the black coating. gets dirty enough that it can look black if you dont clean it though ;-)


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## kenwood72 (Sep 16, 2014)

what is funny about this thread is that 99% is pure speculation from internet engineers. the more gears the better, plain and simply, especially with 29 inch wheels. boost adds some space to the chainlink so that helps. anyhow i built a new bike and went with eagle because i wanted to try something new, i did the same with 1x11 a few years ago and never looked back. yes it is expensive but so is 1x11 in its higher forms and if you hold the eagle cassette in your hand it is a pretty amazing piece of metal and though no part is worth retail it is definitely worth more than an xt 80 dollar xt cassette. only time will tell how this works in the long run but i am pretty stoked to use it. at the same time i also switched to an oval chainring so i am excited for this system to say the least. velosprocket has the group and loves it real world stuff there.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

Not deviate from the eagle system but man I don't think I could go back to circular chainring after giving the oval a go .

Can't wait to have fund for the next bike... Eagle will def be going on it


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## zeeke (May 10, 2006)

So just one day on my Eagle so far, and without a doubt I have never ridden a bike that shifted so well. Not Sram RED or Durace, not XTR or XX1. Seriously it shifts so clean and crisp with very little movement of the shifter. Super clean. I love it so far.


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## deck (Jul 5, 2008)

Is color the only difference between the XX1 & X01 chain? I can't seem to find anything to the contrary.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Had a first serious ride with Eagle installed. Halfway the ride (after a muddy section from hell), I noticed he wasn't shifting to the bigger cogs anymore and jumping around with shifting to them. 2 clicks adjustment on the cable-tension and everything shifted fine again on all 12. I am happy with it.

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

Got mine for a week now...

- its def nicer than a 42-11 (and 44-11 which i also have) cassette with a 30t ring (too low top speed) or 32t ring (some long steep climbs are really hard on the knees).

- it shifts the same as 11 speeds

- the rear derailleur is usually not hanging low when it would be dangerous for it to be, since its only at its lowest on the 2 bigger cogs. its basically as high as the 11 speed derailleur most of the time (compared it side by side and rode both bike in tall grass to see how much it would catch) so no problem there either

- its indeed a little more silent when pedaling, which is nice i guess though its really not a huge difference

is it better? yeah it is, even though 12 speeds starts to be a lot of gears IMO. id rather have the same range on 11 or 10 speed with slightly more progressive spacing between teeth counts. At the end of the day its better than my 11 speed setups.

now if its worth the money to upgrade... no.. its not. just run a smaller front ring for 40-60USD if you need an easier gear and go a little slower at top speed, its no big deal.

I'll repeat: its slightly better but its just not worth the extra money.


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## kenwood72 (Sep 16, 2014)

double great review and point, i put it on a long travel 29er and have been using the gearing more than i thought i would but i also find it interesting i can back pedal all day in the 50 without any issues. that may be due to the boost spacing or whatever but i am impressed.


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## ndatube67 (Mar 23, 2016)

Installed, tuned, and rode my eagle XX1 on my SC TB3 for the first time yesterday. Very smooth shifting and very quiet operation. I like the additional range the 1x12 offers and with a 32t front ring, the 50t cog in the back will truly only be for bailouts. If it proves to be durable and reliable over the long term, I think I'm going to like it even more.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

boubla said:


> Note: gold anodizing (titanium nitride) doesn't wear off,


Trust me it does. sooner or later. depending on thickness/diffusion depth and method/temperature of application


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## some dude (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm at well over 200 miles with the Eagle XX1 so far on a Yeti SB5.5c and for the most part I really like it. My favorite shifting/strategy is still the 3x10 XTR but that's also what I have the most time on. 

I'll start off with my complaints of the Eagle,....the down shift strategy sucks at only one gear/click at a time rather than a double or triple dump. I ride a lot of quick rolling terrain where I need to climb for 40-60' and then haul ass down for a few hundred yards and with the 3x XTR a front shift would be used just as much as the rear. Upshifts to lower gears are fine at 3 at a time with a full sweep of the thumb. Next would be I'd probably like the gearing of a 9 tooth small instead of the 10 as I pedal out at around 32-35mph and while some think that's just absurd I did 3 rides of the last 5 that had 15-20% spent in the top gear pedaling down a paved or gravel road after the trail had ended. 

The positives, loaded up shift to bigger gears is solid. I used to cringe if I had to use a bail out on a climb with my XTR equipped bikes, however I can be in the middle of a fairly hard and technical climb with the XX1 and shift from the 45 to the 50 tooth biggie no problem without any crunch and sometimes having to look down to make sure it actually made the shift,..it's the smoothness of a transition in both duration and cadence. I have yet to experience a single chain drop, I am running a 34 tooth Absolute Black oval front which seems even better at chain retention than normal N/W front rings. I'm also a clyde at 210lbs with over 25lbs of gear on remote rides and getting more solid with every week of pedaling the past 3+ years. While I'd like just a tad more top end range, the bottom was just perfect for rides consisting of 3k' climbing at 9-12k' of altitude for over a week when I'm from a 1,800' elevation home. 

Overall I'm really digging the SRAM XX1 Eagle and have been a solid XTR guy previously, in spite of my penchant for European products/engineering.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

car bone said:


> Trust me it does. sooner or later. depending on thickness/diffusion depth and method/temperature of application


ill rephrase  (since yes - everything wears off eventually)

by the time its gone you probably have to change the chain/cassette ;-)
black anodizing will wear off after a few rides

I ran gold anodized KMC chains which seems to have a similar process and hardness - its always been that way. the inside of the plates will start to wear off when my chain is to be replaced. 
The black ones wear off the next day.

so far on my eagle - i have the XX1 gold cassette but not the gold chain - the cassette did not wear off at all yet (except for the 50t ring which uses the black anodizing). It still has plenty of life in it though.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Its not anodizing. You can only anodize alu/mg/ti not steel. 

the gold color on steel is a nitriding process. There are many variants of it. Its the same as used on drill bits. And depending on how long the maker wants it to last they employ either cheaper or more expensive methods of applying it. And vary the thickness. 

The thicker the better usually. Thickness is on behalf of crack resistance. the ti-nitride is rock hard so the underlying metal needs to be very hard too for this not to crack when it bends. Thinner layers conforms to bends better without cracking and peeling off. 

But chains are not very hard, since these are stamped pieces they need to be ductile without cracking. its not a drill bit or carbide cutter insert for an endmill were talking here. 

Its mostly cosmetics on chains to be honest. And several people have reported that when they take a chain apart its only the "outside" of the chain parts that are actually coated. They dont nitride first and assemble the chains afterwards it seems. 

Buy hey I HAVE GOLD FENDERS on my bike and i like that (brass actually)  because it looks cool.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

just noticed Today they have a 24mm and 30mm spindle cranks, other than having to buy a new bb why would you buy a 24mm crank instead of the 30mm version?


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

car bone said:


> Its not anodizing. You can only anodize alu/mg/ti not steel.


the majority of gold looking chains (ie titanium nitride) last very long compared to black coating. no amount of nit picking changes that ;-) I mean cmon.

its like saying a carbon bike is fragile. well yes, it depends how its made. oh and its not carbon, its carbon fiber and epoxy. and its not epoxy its a specific kind of mix. and it has non-carbon parts in it. etc.
Could break when you sit on it. Yet the vast majority of carbon bikes is stronger than common steel bikes .

as for the cosmetic part, yes probably though i find they have one advantage: they do not rust as easily if you dont dry them properly after a wash.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

mfa81 said:


> just noticed Today they have a 24mm and 30mm spindle cranks, other than having to buy a new bb why would you buy a 24mm crank instead of the 30mm version?


all cranks come that way. 30mm is press fit, and 24mm is threaded - you know, the one that doesn't creak. 😀


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Good stuff, even more tempted to make the jump. I know what your saying SOMEDUDE, Ive run a Rohloff hub for many years and the fast shifts are unbeatable in rolling terrain. I am searching for a decent deal on separate parts....any recommendations?

Cog+der+shifter+chain


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## Fisty (Sep 19, 2005)

Why would anyone spend all that cash and not switch out the chainring for a 36 or even better, a 38t? Peeps are missing the point. It's not about having lower gearing but higher gearing.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Fisty said:


> Why would anyone spend all that cash and not switch out the chainring for a 36 or even better, a 38t? Peeps are missing the point. It's not about having lower gearing but higher gearing.


I believe some frames might not have clearance for rings this soze, but yet eagle + 32 rings makes no sense to me, gotta go the larger your frame can take! I ride 32/42 so would probably have a 36 and get some extra gearing on both ends!


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## Fisty (Sep 19, 2005)

mfa81 said:


> I believe some frames might not have clearance for rings this soze, but yet eagle + 32 rings makes no sense to me, gotta go the larger your frame can take! I ride 32/42 so would probably have a 36 and get some extra gearing on both ends!


If a 36 will not fit their frame then why would anyone even consider the eagle?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Fisty said:


> If a 36 will not fit their frame then why would anyone even consider the eagle?


there's definitely people on this forum looking for more gear ratio than 28x42 offers. I am not sure if they are on 29+, or what.


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## andresco50 (Apr 19, 2012)

I have xx1 for 3 years and I will never back to 2x don't understand why brands still offering 2 chainrings even in the top models like s-works...

I was racing in France near the mont blanc the hills are really seally steep with my 30x42 ratio was really hard in a lot of hills u have to push the bike!! so an extra gear will be AWESOME i will buy a bike with eagle, thinking installing a 32 ring


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## Fisty (Sep 19, 2005)

I run a 36 with the oneup 50t on 27.5. Only use it for super steeps. Im sure a 29 would be perfect for 36/50.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

andresco50 said:


> I have xx1 for 3 years and I will never back to 2x don't understand why brands still offering 2 chainrings even in the top models like s-works...
> 
> I was racing in France near the mont blanc the hills are really seally steep with my 30x42 ratio was really hard in a lot of hills u have to push the bike!! so an extra gear will be AWESOME i will buy a bike with eagle, thinking installing a 32 ring


You have to get off and push and you're complaining about 2x drivetrains? 2xs and 3xs are still better for some people/places. For me, in So. Cal. 1x would still mean a slight compromise.


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## myke2241 (Aug 11, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> You have to get off and push and you're complaining about 2x drivetrains? 2xs and 3xs are still better for some people/places. For me, in So. Cal. 1x would still mean a slight compromise.


I ride a 34-42 xx1 in SoCal and don't think I'm compromising ratio. Many people do. Btw I can't remember the last time I got off my bike because of grade.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

myke2241 said:


> I ride a 34-42 xx1 in SoCal and don't think I'm compromising ratio. Many people do. Btw I can't remember the last time I got off my bike because of grade.


Everyone's different.


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## myke2241 (Aug 11, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Everyone's different.


Of course but if you can afford it give it a try. I remember being on fence with the same concerns living in SoCal. At this point I hardly see anyone rocking a double or triple. To each there own but that is a telling sign.

May I ask what trails you like to ride in SoCal?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

myke2241 said:


> Of course but if you can afford it give it a try. I remember being on fence with the same concerns living in SoCal. At this point I hardly see anyone rocking a double or triple. To each there own but that is a telling sign.
> 
> May I ask what trails you like to ride in SoCal?


I also mean everyone's skill level, leg strength and endurance level are different.

I do most of my riding on private property in the mountains between Simi Valley and Valencia. But, I'll sometimes hit Rocky Peak, Tapo Canyon Trail area, Lost Canyons trail network, Malibu Creek. And my favorite is to start at Long Canyon in Simi Valley and come out at Chesebro and the 101 freeway in Agoura.


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## myke2241 (Aug 11, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I also mean everyone's skill level, leg strength and endurance level are different.
> 
> I do most of my riding on private property in the mountains between Simi Valley and Valencia. But, I'll sometimes hit Rocky Peak, Tapo Canyon Trail area, Lost Canyons trail network, Malibu Creek. And my favorite is to start at Long Canyon in Simi Valley and come out at Chesebro and the 101 freeway in Agoura.


Ya I totally understand the leg strength thing. I think everyone should be mostly covered when you factor one could do a 24t - 28t in the front. That covers a lot of range.

I used to live in Sherman Oaks but now we are out in OC. I totally regret not riding out your direction! Out here I see a lot of the enduro guys running a 28t in the front.


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## tealy (Mar 7, 2013)

okay


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

Ok - I glossed over the thread looking for an alternative chain to the BOAT ANCHOR SRAM supplies with Eagle. Then I searched the KMC site and came up empty.

Anyone know if KMC has something in the works???


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

DMFT said:


> Ok - I glossed over the thread looking for an alternative chain to the BOAT ANCHOR SRAM supplies with Eagle. Then I searched the KMC site and came up empty.
> 
> Anyone know if KMC has something in the works???


260 grams with 10 more links than most chains, how light do you want to go?


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

myke2241 said:


> Btw I can't remember the last time I got off my bike because of grade.


You need to go to NC and ride Pisgah or some of the steep trails out east. You'll understand what steep hike a bike terrain really is. There's no pedaling some of it but you've got to get to the goods and they're well worth the effort.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I recently swapped in a Wolf Tooth GCX44 cog on two of my XX1 cassettes and am using their elliptical CR's. I can go up a CR size with it but I'm limited to what the frame will accommodate in CR size. 
I agree Eagle is about widening your gearing band up and down the range as these cogs get bigger but it's kind of the cart and the horse scenario. As this becomes more accepted industry wide the frame manufacturers are going to have to build more chain ring clearance into the bikes. 
How does this all play with boost, super boost and the ever shortening chain stays?
I'm content with my XX1 11 spd kits for now especially with how well the WT GCX 44 works with the elliptical and the 49mm CL on my 142x12 bike. It shifts better than the stock 10-42 gearing with the stock 51mm CL. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

manitou2200 said:


> You need to go to NC and ride Pisgah or some of the steep trails out east. You'll understand what steep hike a bike terrain really is. There's no pedaling some of it but you've got to get to the goods and they're well worth the effort.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah, where I ride there's some trails and fire roads that can't be climbed by anyone. But, it's nice to see how far up you can get. Well, not really climbing sucks.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

I so suck at climbing. 2x gearing is nice for this slow Clyde, but I do miss 1X more than I thought. I thought about using the WT 44 cog paired with a 26T chainring. I'm concerned about suspension kinematics and chainring wear. My 2X chainrings crapped out early from wear and rock strikes.

M2200, I thought using an elliptical was beneath you

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Yeah, where I ride there's some trails and fire roads that can't be climbed by anyone. But, it's nice to see how far up you can get. Well, not really climbing sucks.


It seems there are HaB's everywhere but most people avoid them. There just seems to be an abundance of them in Pisgah because you're riding trails designed for hiking. Yeah climbing does suck but you've got to love to hate it. As they say In the road cycling world; being a good climber comes the responsibility to being a good descender. 
I hope you get through your illness quickly and back to riding soon.



DrDon said:


> I so suck at climbing. 2x gearing is nice for this slow Clyde, but I do miss 1X more than I thought. I thought about using the WT 44 cog paired with a 26T chainring. I'm concerned about suspension kinematics and chainring wear. My 2X chainrings crapped out early from wear and rock strikes.
> 
> M2200, I thought using an elliptical was beneath you
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Worried in which way, what's your small CR now with 2x? The 49mm CL works well with the GC cogs, smoother running and quitter with less cross chaining. That's got to help driveline wear. 
Live and learn right Don? My buddy Evan is a no bull**** Fin from da UP and a super strong rider. So when he prodded me on the ellipticals I took note. I'm a believer now! Old dogs can learn new tricks. 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

^ Thanks!


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> 260 grams with 10 more links than most chains, how light do you want to go?


-Ok, so "boat anchor" might have been a slight overstatement. The KMC's I've been using for a really loooooong time are always lighter but (bonus!) more durable than either or their counterparts....

I'm a 1st time SRAM mountain groupo owner (still building the bike) and can't wait to see if the stuff meets my expectations having been a looooooooooong time Shimano guy. Personally, I think it will....


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Many have spoke of a small single chainring will screw up the suspension. In regards to pedaling. This doesn't make too much sense to me since the small chainring in 2X system is smaller than a 1X chainring. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

tealy said:


> They are still offering 2x because some people prefer to ride (not push) in the big mountains!
> 
> I rented a 2x enduro bike and rode up those Le Tour slopes to above the downhill course. Spun grannie all the way up. Pushed high gear all the way down. It was perfect. 1x in the Alps. WHY???


I love the gearing of my 2X Di2. Less fatigue = longer rides. I have it set up with one shifter.

Downsides
1. Chain drop. Rare when on the bike, but when I don't clear a section, the chain will often drop if I roll the bike backwards. 
2. Quick wear of the 24T granny. I spend a lot of time in the granny because of low speed rock gardens. 
3. When the front derailleur engages, there is a delay in shifting.

When I was in Crested Butte, it would be a no brainer for me - 2X all the way. Slow loooong grinds up, fast descents. I have the E 13 cassette on one of my bikes and I don't notice the 80gm weight penalty over my XO1 cassette, but do appreciate the extra gearing although it's minimal. That bike has a lighter, faster build.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## zeeke (May 10, 2006)

DrDon said:


> I love the gearing of my 2X Di2. Less fatigue = longer rides. I have it set up with one shifter.
> 
> Downsides
> 1. Chain drop. Rare when on the bike, but when I don't clear a section, the chain will often drop if I roll the bike backwards.
> ...


I think its one of the rare situations where you have to actually use it yourself to see how you like it. I live in Colorado and switched from a 2x to 1x12 eagle and I cant say enough how much I love it and would never go back to 2x. The stock 32x50 has been ok on any climb ive done so far but there were a few times I had to go into ouch that hurt on some steep stuff and wished I had one more gear. But that is easily fixed if you are in Colorado and riding tons of front range and other big climbs, just switch to a 30 up front. Honestly on the 32 I get to the point that I laugh and say yes one more gear might be ok but I could walk faster. I have bad knees and can not grind a climb and the 32x50 seriously has not been an issue.

I never expected to like it as much as I do, there is just zero reason in my mind to not ever use it. Is it worth upgrading a 2x11? No. But any new bike I would get 1x12 and anything that is 2x10 I would go to 1x12.

And that is not even taking into account that nothing I have ever ridden shifts as well as the eagle does. Not even close. Not XTR or XX1 or even road bike RED/Durace. It shifts like butter with zero effort, just barley click the shifter and it snaps into the next gear.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

So without reading the whole thread

I have an XX1 1 x 11 :10 x 42 cassette with the X-dome drive on an industry nine hub.

I would like to upgrade to the eagle 1 x 12 :10 x 50....

Will the cassette fit on the hub????


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Oh and BTW while I am still new with 1 by.....I miss the high gearing when riding out on doubletrack......common around here.


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## deck (Jul 5, 2008)

jeffscott said:


> Will the cassette fit on the hub????


I changed from an 11 speed to 12 and the Eagle cassette fit my i9 Torch hub.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

deck said:


> I changed from an 11 speed to 12 and the Eagle cassette fit my i9 Torch hub.


Perfect


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Okay just checking out Jensons for 1 x 12 parts...

What is the big difference between the XX1 eagle 1 by 12 and the XX0 1 by 12.

Other than a lot of money.


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## zeeke (May 10, 2006)

jeffscott said:


> Okay just checking out Jensons for 1 x 12 parts...
> 
> What is the big difference between the XX1 eagle 1 by 12 and the XX0 1 by 12.
> 
> Other than a lot of money.


First off its gotta be an XD hub, which you have.

Second the difference between the X01 and the XX1 is like 50grams and 200 bucks or more. I got the X01, just wasnt worth it to me personally. They are exactly the same just a few minor grams difference. If it was a big difference, sure, but its not.


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

jeffscott said:


> Okay just checking out Jensons for 1 x 12 parts...
> 
> What is the big difference between the XX1 eagle 1 by 12 and the XX0 1 by 12.
> 
> Other than a lot of money.


With 1x11 you can get up to a 44t cog aftermarket to fit the 1099 and 1095 cassette. This would allow you to run a next bigger size chainring than the 42t stock cog. 
With 1x12 you get the 50t giant cog and the ability to run a bigger chain ring than 1x11 and have a higher top gear, as long as the cog will fit your frame. 
Whichever way you go I'd suggest getting an elliptical CR like a Wolf Tooth.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

manitou2200 said:


> With 1x11 you can get up to a 44t cog aftermarket to fit the 1099 and 1095 cassette. This would allow you to run a next bigger size chainring than the 42t stock cog.
> With 1x12 you get the 50t giant cog and the ability to run a bigger chain ring than 1x11 and have a higher top gear, as long as the cog will fit your frame.
> Whichever way you go I'd suggest getting an elliptical CR like a Wolf Tooth.


I have a 22 by 36 on the old bike to get up some of the hills around here....they are long and steep!

Plus we ride a lot of snow and that really demands some lower gearing as well.

I plan to run 30 on the front and 10 by 50 on the back....

I used to run biopace way back......you are right with the elllipitical chainring I could probably get away with 32 by 50.....Still gonna be short the top end.

If it really bugs me I might try out a sclhumf planetary drive front

Thanks for the idea


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

You'll be fine with a 32 elliptical. You be almost as low as your 22/ 36 and almost as tall as your 34/ 11. You won't miss that big gear that much and shifting's way better plus you'll drop 3/4 lb. off the bike. The new ellipticals are way better than the biopace junk was. Biopace with the bigger gearing in the dead zone was exactly opposite of the current elliptical CR's
I run a 30t CR WT elliptical with their GCX44 cog on my XX1 and I don't miss the 2x or 3x at all. I also have a 12-44 1x9 with a 30t CR on my 29+ touring bike. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

manitou2200 said:


> You'll be fine with a 32 elliptical. You be almost as low as your 22/ 36 and almost as tall as your 34/ 11. You won't miss that big gear that much and shifting's way better plus you'll drop 3/4 lb. off the bike. The new ellipticals are way better than the biopace junk was. Biopace with the bigger gearing in the dead zone was exactly opposite of the current elliptical CR's
> I run a 30t CR WT elliptical with their GCX44 cog on my XX1 and I don't miss the 2x or 3x at all. I also have a 12
> 
> Bit of a miss understanding....Currently I ride a triple 46 32 22 front and a 11 by 36 rear. 11 by 34 is fine as well. on 26 wheels, 559 62 tires.
> ...


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

Quick question from a very mechanically un-inclined person. I currently have a 2015 S Works Epic WC, SRAM XX1 11spd. with the Specialized S Works crank, 104bcd. Is there any reason I couldn't upgrade to Eagle RD, shifter, chain, and cassette only and keep my S Works crank? Chainline issues or anything? Seems straightforward to someone like me who doesn't know anything. Thanks in advance.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

chuckie33 said:


> Quick question from a very mechanically un-inclined person. I currently have a 2015 S Works Epic WC, SRAM XX1 11spd. with the Specialized S Works crank, 104bcd. Is there any reason I couldn't upgrade to Eagle RD, shifter, chain, and cassette only and keep my S Works crank? Chainline issues or anything? Seems straightforward to someone like me who doesn't know anything. Thanks in advance.


You may have some trouble finding an Eagle 104 BCD chainring. I doubt your existing ring would work.


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

chuckie33 said:


> Quick question from a very mechanically un-inclined person. I currently have a 2015 S Works Epic WC, SRAM XX1 11spd. with the Specialized S Works crank, 104bcd. Is there any reason I couldn't upgrade to Eagle RD, shifter, chain, and cassette only and keep my S Works crank? Chainline issues or anything? Seems straightforward to someone like me who doesn't know anything. Thanks in advance.





ColinL said:


> You may have some trouble finding an Eagle 104 BCD chainring. I doubt your existing ring would work.


His existing crank and chain ring will work fine with Eagle. There are plenty of folks running RF Cinch cranks and rings as well as ellipticals with Eagle.


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

manitou2200 said:


> His existing crank and chain ring will work fine with Eagle. There are plenty of folks running RF Cinch cranks and rings as well as ellipticals with Eagle.


Thanks! That's what I was thinking but wasn't sure if there was something I didn't know. Currently running a 34T Osymetric NW ring which should work with the Eagle. I've read there isn't much a difference in spacing between 11spd and 12spd. If not, looks like there are several aftermarket options for oval or elliptical in 104. Absolute Black has a nice one that is compatible with Eagle.


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## snigs (Feb 8, 2010)

Well there is this:

"These are all due to two things: The e-assist can double the power of the rider and riders are trained to 'soft-pedal' while shifting but the assist motor can be kicking in while the rider is shifting. Also, e-bikes are heavier by about 20-25 pounds of un-sprung weight and it can affect the ride, as the brakes are stressed and the bike pushes into corners or fades in long descents."

So, does not really apply to other than e-bikes.



car bone said:


> theyre basically admitting everything above 8sp is **** so why not include this in the equation?
> 
> Am i enterpreting things wrong here? Its pretty black and white from where I'm reading..
> 
> wouldnt you say?





car bone said:


> You are aware sram just anounced an electric specific drivetrain where they basically admit the current stuff is ****.
> 
> let me repost it for you.
> 
> ...


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## myke2241 (Aug 11, 2009)

ColinL said:


> You may have some trouble finding an Eagle 104 BCD chainring. I doubt your existing ring would work.


Tons of 104bcd rings will work. I think essentially every 11spd NW ring will work with eagle. Wolf Tooth has a statement on their site saying their rings work with eagle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## PeteyPhil (May 12, 2016)

I just bought a new Santa Cruz Hightower with x01 Eagle 1x12 installed, and I'm getting substantial resistance when pedaling in the 50 tooth dinner plate cog (at least, I mostly notice it when pedaling by hand in the stand -- less so when riding). I guess I would expect chainline issues with a 1x conversion, but not on a new bike designed for 1x. Is this just a fact of life for a wide 1x cassette like this? Or is something not right here?


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## Fisty (Sep 19, 2005)

My guess is your chain is a few links too short


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## Fisty (Sep 19, 2005)

Or ur b screw may need adjust


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## PeteyPhil (May 12, 2016)

Fisty said:


> Or ur b screw may need adjust


Ugh, that would be super annoying if they installed the chain too short. I will look into these -- appreciate the suggestions.


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## myke2241 (Aug 11, 2009)

PeteyPhil said:


> I just bought a new Santa Cruz Hightower with x01 Eagle 1x12 installed, and I'm getting substantial resistance when pedaling in the 50 tooth dinner plate cog (at least, I mostly notice it when pedaling by hand in the stand -- less so when riding). I guess I would expect chainline issues with a 1x conversion, but not on a new bike designed for 1x. Is this just a fact of life for a wide 1x cassette like this? Or is something not right here?


Doesn't eagle come with that special alignment tool.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

myke2241 said:


> Doesn't eagle come with that special alignment tool.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


It comes with a special tool used to set the b screw correctly. Little red plastic tool that was in the box with my RD.


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## lml427 (May 13, 2008)

The Chicago Area Mountain Bikers (CAMBr.org) is holding a raffle and one of the prizes is a complete SRAM Eagle 1x12 setup. Funds are used to build more trails.

CAMBr - Chicago Area Mountain Bikers


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## PeteyPhil (May 12, 2016)

chuckie33 said:


> It comes with a special tool used to set the b screw correctly. Little red plastic tool that was in the box with my RD.


Either I never received the tool or I accidentally discarded it, but in either case I don't have it. Based on the cryptic SRAM instructions it looks like spacing should be 15mm between the 50t cog and that little derailleur cog? Does that sound right?


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

PeteyPhil said:


> Either I never received the tool or I accidentally discarded it, but in either case I don't have it. Based on the cryptic SRAM instructions it looks like spacing should be 15mm between the 50t cog and that little derailleur cog? Does that sound right?


You probably never got one since everything was already on the bike. I just purchased everything separately and the tool was in the RD box. I haven't installed anything yet so don't know about the spacing off the top of my head. Here are some videos that might help:


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

If your chain is the correct length and your b tension screw is out of the adjustment spec it's easy to correct that. Shift up to the 2nd largest cog then tighten (clockwise) the b tension screw until you have a large enough gap between the upper jockey pulley and the largest cog so that there is no contact or grinding shifting up onto and off of the big cog. You have some tolerance on this adjustment but if you make the gap too large your shifting in the smallest cogs will suffer and may even skip on the smallest cog.


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## PeteyPhil (May 12, 2016)

manitou2200 said:


> If your chain is the correct length and your b tension screw is out of the adjustment spec it's easy to correct that. Shift up to the 2nd largest cog then tighten (clockwise) the b tension screw until you have a large enough gap between the upper jockey pulley and the largest cog so that there is no contact or grinding shifting up onto and off of the big cog. You have some tolerance on this adjustment but if you make the gap too large your shifting in the smallest cogs will suffer and may even skip on the smallest cog.


Interesting. Everything is working smoothly when the bike is in the stand. And when I ride the the bike everything is now perfectly smooth in the smallest cogs and the largest cogs. However I'm getting skipping in the middle cogs. Thoughts?


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

seems like cable tension


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## Fisty (Sep 19, 2005)

Cable adjust or bent hanger. I always pre adjust cable length each ride by riding along and shifting up and down to make the adjustment.


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

PeteyPhil said:


> Interesting. Everything is working smoothly when the bike is in the stand. And when I ride the the bike everything is now perfectly smooth in the smallest cogs and the largest cogs. However I'm getting skipping in the middle cogs. Thoughts?


Once you have it pretty close on the stand it's always wise to test with a load on the drive train and fine tune cable tension while pedaling. 
Which chain are you running (eagle) and are all the links working smoothly?


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Like Fisty suggests it could be an out of spec hangar. If it persists you might need to put an alignment tool on the hangar to check.


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## PeteyPhil (May 12, 2016)

Chain is X01 Eagle. Chain and hangar visually appear ok. I'm fairly new at doing my own maintenance, though, so I can't tell if it's my inexperience or something else giving me problems. I will continue to tinker with it... I suppose eventually I might have to bite the bullet and take it to the shop. Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions.


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## myke2241 (Aug 11, 2009)

PeteyPhil said:


> Chain is X01 Eagle. Chain and hangar visually appear ok. I'm fairly new at doing my own maintenance, though, so I can't tell if it's my inexperience or something else giving me problems. I will continue to tinker with it... I suppose eventually I might have to bite the bullet and take it to the shop. Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions.


I know it's the last thing you want to do but take it to a shop when in doubt.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## PeteyPhil (May 12, 2016)

myke2241 said:


> I know it's the last thing you want to do but take it to a shop when in doubt.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Well, mystery solved without taking it to the LBS. Turns out chain connector for the Eagle chain is curved, and the shop (an internet retailer which shall remain unnamed) incorrectly installed the connector with the convex side facing the center of the drivetrain. In the middle gears, the chain connector was catching on adjacent smaller cogs. However, it wasn't catching on the smallest cog because there is no smaller cog, and it wasn't catching on the dinner plate cog because it is so much bigger than the adjacent smaller cog.

Go figure.


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## Fisty (Sep 19, 2005)

Lol didnt even know the eagle quick link was curvd.. Bet this wont be the last we hear of this lols. Wonder why they did that. Strange at best


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

Being a novice mechanic, I watched SRAMs install video and followed it step by step. In the video, they are very clear about how to install the powerlink. But I'm sure you are right that lots of mechanics will make this mistake. Well done by the LBS to diagnose it.


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## myke2241 (Aug 11, 2009)

chuckie33 said:


> Being a novice mechanic, I watched SRAMs install video and followed it step by step. In the video, they are very clear about how to install the powerlink. But I'm sure you are right that lots of mechanics will make this mistake. Well done by the LBS to diagnose it.


Thanks for the heads up. I may make the move to eagle once I get my bike back.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

myke2241 said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I may make the move to eagle once I get my bike back.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


The video is super helpful. Initially, installing an entire groupset seemed pretty overwhelming to someone like me and I almost took it to a bike shop, but I gave it a try and it was a piece of cake with the video guiding me. This coming from a guy who has never even installed new cables or housing on my own bike. Disclaimer: I used my original housing as it was in great shape so I didn't have to handle that part.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

From what I've read the eagle chain is the same interior width but narrower plates for a narrower exterior width. Has anyone tried an eagle 12s chain on an 11s drivetrain? The improvement(?) in the design (per SRAM) would appear to contribute to less wear of the all drivetrain components. OR does the narrower outside width cause poor shifting on an 11s cassette?


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## Fisty (Sep 19, 2005)

Andy13 said:


> From what I've read the eagle chain is the same interior width but narrower plates for a narrower exterior width. Has anyone tried an eagle 12s chain on an 11s drivetrain? The improvement(?) in the design (per SRAM) would appear to contribute to less wear of the all drivetrain components. OR does the narrower outside width cause poor shifting on an 11s cassette?


Unless they are using a different material on the 12 chain I would have to think that it is gonna "stretch" sooner. Ide be interested in hearing the results of 12 on 11 for.shifting.


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## NullAndVoid (May 29, 2011)

myke2241 said:


> Tons of 104bcd rings will work. I think essentially every 11spd NW ring will work with eagle. Wolf Tooth has a statement on their site saying their rings work with eagle.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Good news that, will save me buying a new crankset since I have an old school BCD carbon crank.


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## PeopleForScience (May 15, 2012)

Fisty said:


> Unless they are using a different material on the 12 chain I would have to think that it is gonna "stretch" sooner. Ide be interested in hearing the results of 12 on 11 for.shifting.


Chains dont really stretch. The outside plates dont really get any longer. Over time the bushings wear and that is what gets longer. So, the new chains may wear faster but only because the bushing pins are not as long. And since the pedaling forces have not changed, the same force is being applied to a smaller area which can lead to increased wear.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Pretty sure that's why Fisty put quotes around stretch. "stretch" . It's just easier to say than bushing wear causing the chain to lengthen.


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## Stone0207 (Apr 16, 2014)

talking about wearing a chain: would you save on a chain? My x01 eagle upgrade is at the doorstep and I need to decide between the silver x01 or the black xx1 chain. The difference is the coating, it's hard chrome on the black one and nickel on the silver x01. What is your take on that? Difference is 18 bucks...


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

Got my answer at LBS


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## goldencarrot (Oct 26, 2015)

*Replace old (2014) 1x11 XX1 by new XX1 Eagle 1x12*

I have a full XX1 1x11 (from 2014) on my Hightower and would like to replace it by the new 1x12.

My question is:

- Can I use my old XX1 cranks and shifter in order to save some $$$?

- And as for the new X-Sync chairing, if mounted in my old XX1 cranks, do I need a 6mm offset right (standard 73mm threaded BB)?

Thanks for your help!


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

goldencarrot said:


> I have a full XX1 1x11 (from 2014) on my Hightower and would like to replace it by the new 1x12.
> 
> My question is:
> 
> ...


You can use your crank but you will need a new shifter, RD, cassette, and chain. I made the same switch a month or so ago and I'm really enjoying it.

I'm not sure about the chainring question as I have an S Works crank and just kept my same Osymetric NW chainring I was running with 11 spd. My guess is your current chainring will work (though SRAM may say otherwise so you will buy one of their new ones).


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

chuckie33 said:


> You can use your crank but you will need a new shifter, RD, cassette, and chain. I made the same switch a month or so ago and I'm really enjoying it.
> 
> I'm not sure about the chainring question as I have an S Works crank and just kept my same Osymetric NW chainring I was running with 11 spd. My guess is your current chainring will work (though SRAM may say otherwise so you will buy one of their new ones).


I made the switch as well and kept cranks and AbsoluteBlack Oval chainring, works perfectly. Great to have my gearing back - spin to win!


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## ndatube67 (Mar 23, 2016)

I'm loving the XX1 eagle drive train on my tallboy 3 so far but in 200 miles I have now destroyed two GXP bottom brackets. The non drive side bearings are failing. The most recent bottom bracket lasted only three rides. Anybody else having this problem with Eagle?


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

How's the shifting on and off the 50t? I'm currently running xtr 11 spd with the one up 45t. Works fine, but the shifts off the 45 are weird and slow. It feels like the chain has to un-wrap itself from the cog.


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## PeteyPhil (May 12, 2016)

Shifting up to the 50 is smooth and fast. I think shifting off of very large cogs is always going to be a little slow because it needs to rotate through a lot of teeth before it will drop the chain onto the next cog.


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## newking (Nov 6, 2007)

If your currently running a 32 Front ring and 11-42 rear cog what would you choose for a front ring if you upgraded to the Eagle if you want to try to gain a little edge on both the easy and hard gearing? A 34 oval or a 36?


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

anyone had out of the ordinary derailed chains into the spokes? I've taken it back to the shop twice for an adjustment (50 miles on the drive train). Not sure they're actually touching the low limit screw.... going to check it out myself I guess.


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## jgdblue (Apr 24, 2015)

Streetdoctor said:


> anyone had out of the ordinary derailed chains into the spokes? I've taken it back to the shop twice for an adjustment (50 miles on the drive train). Not sure they're actually touching the low limit screw.... going to check it out myself I guess.


Sounds like you're on track, likely needs a limit screw adjustment.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

newking said:


> If your currently running a 32 Front ring and 11-42 rear cog what would you choose for a front ring if you upgraded to the Eagle if you want to try to gain a little edge on both the easy and hard gearing? A 34 oval or a 36?


I went with an oval...

From a 30 to a 32 oval seemed to maintain the bottom end and gained a bit of top end... Seems to 30 in granny and 34 in top gear.

Careful of chainstay clearance on some frames.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

ndatube67 said:


> I'm loving the XX1 eagle drive train on my tallboy 3 so far but in 200 miles I have now destroyed two GXP bottom brackets. The non drive side bearings are failing. The most recent bottom bracket lasted only three rides. Anybody else having this problem with Eagle?


My Tallboy came with Raceface BB and cranks no problems at all with the front end.....and lots of muddy rides so far.


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## Fx1 (Sep 27, 2015)

Streetdoctor said:


> anyone had out of the ordinary derailed chains into the spokes? I've taken it back to the shop twice for an adjustment (50 miles on the drive train). Not sure they're actually touching the low limit screw.... going to check it out myself I guess.


Happened to my yesterday on first ride. I think this Eagle is rubbish. No benefit over 11 speed

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Having now built a few bikes with the Eagle drivetrain, I can say that the b-screw adjustment ends up further away from the cog than it typically does. If you get the RD too close to the cassette, it will be noisy when you get up around the two largest sprockets. 

And, I have not seen any tendency for the chain to overshift over the top of the cassette into the spokes. I would be checking for proper limit screw adjustment, a bent hanger, or a bent derailleur. Once you get the low gear limit screw initially adjusted, and the cable tension correct, I would go back and look at 1st gear. Once you're in 1st gear, if you push the downshift lever, you should get no more than a faint twitch from the rear derailleur. I like to set them so I do see a TINY twitch so the the teeth of the cassette easily go into the center part of the chain. If the limit screw is set to 'tight', the chain may want to ride up on the on the edge of the link plates. Too loose, and it may overshift the chain into the spokes.

When properly adjusted, I have found the Eagle system to be VERY smooth shifting. The wider range of the 10-50 cassette and the smooth shifting of the system when properly spec'd and adjusted is more than marketing hype. If you don't ride where you would need it, then you may not find it so useful.


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## ndatube67 (Mar 23, 2016)

ndatube67 said:


> I'm loving the XX1 eagle drive train on my tallboy 3 so far but in 200 miles I have now destroyed two GXP bottom brackets. The non drive side bearings are failing. The most recent bottom bracket lasted only three rides. Anybody else having this problem with Eagle?


Turns out I have not destroyed any BBs. The popping I was hearing and feeling in my feet through the pedals was coming from the Eagle XX1 crankset. I now suspect that one of the pedal inserts has came loose in the crankarm. Installed a different crank set last night and popping was immediately and completely eliminated. Hopefully a warranty replacement will arrive soon and last more than 200 miles this go round.


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## sirlinus (May 10, 2009)

Any idea where I can buy one of the b-adjustment tools? My bike didn't come with one and I've found myself needing to mess with the screw to keep the upper pulley a proper distance from the cogs. Does anyone know the distance it would need to be without using the tool (assuming adjustment with chain on the largest cog)?


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

sirlinus said:


> Any idea where I can buy one of the b-adjustment tools? My bike didn't come with one and I've found myself needing to mess with the screw to keep the upper pulley a proper distance from the cogs. Does anyone know the distance it would need to be without using the tool (assuming adjustment with chain on the largest cog)?


Check out the installation instruction on the ARAM web site....I believe it says the distance is 15mm


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Streetdoctor said:


> anyone had out of the ordinary derailed chains into the spokes? I've taken it back to the shop twice for an adjustment (50 miles on the drive train). Not sure they're actually touching the low limit screw.... going to check it out myself I guess.


I actually have on my X01 Eagle bike, but not on my XX1 Eagle bike. After the shift up on to, or off of the 50 tooth cog, the chain rests on the tops of the teeth, rather than moving into place. I'm going to compare the two cassettes to see if the 50 tooth on X01 cassette was indexed incorrectly during assembly to the rest of the cassette. I can't figure out what else it might be causing the problem.

I've always been borderline fanatical about limit screw adjustment, I am fairly certain that is not the issue.

Aside from this problem, I am very impressed with all other aspects of performance.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Well it the cassette looks to be assembled correctly. Any thoughts on why I could be struggling with this on one setup vs the other bike?


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## ndatube67 (Mar 23, 2016)

ndatube67 said:


> Turns out I have not destroyed any BBs. The popping I was hearing and feeling in my feet through the pedals was coming from the Eagle XX1 crankset. I now suspect that one of the pedal inserts has came loose in the crankarm. Installed a different crank set last night and popping was immediately and completely eliminated. Hopefully a warranty replacement will arrive soon and last more than 200 miles this go round.


SRAM replaced my crankset under warranty and my drive train is once again smooth and quiet. I sure hope the second crankset will be more durable then the first...


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Another issue

My xx1 RD shifter cable froze up on a ride not even lots of snow, almost dry hovering around 12 C.

I used to have an XTR RD with the rubber boot cable housing....that thing never froze once in 12 years....and some pretty severe icing conditions (road salt grit and gravel at -15 to-20C...that is when the salt stops melting ice more or less).

I have a full route cable... normally you don't lube cables but I guess I am going to have to start, hope it works.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

brentos said:


> I actually have on my X01 Eagle bike, but not on my XX1 Eagle bike. After the shift up on to, or off of the 50 tooth cog, the chain rests on the tops of the teeth, rather than moving into place. I'm going to compare the two cassettes to see if the 50 tooth on X01 cassette was indexed incorrectly during assembly to the rest of the cassette. I can't figure out what else it might be causing the problem.
> 
> I've always been borderline fanatical about limit screw adjustment, I am fairly certain that is not the issue.
> 
> Aside from this problem, I am very impressed with all other aspects of performance.


pics would help, if you still haven't figured it out.

without pics, the first things I would check would be chain length and chain line. if it's a full suspension bike, you have to account for chainstay growth. for some frames that have a lot of CS growth, it's easy to be way off on the stand compared to sagged 30% (or more).


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

brentos said:


> I actually have on my X01 Eagle bike, but not on my XX1 Eagle bike. After the shift up on to, or off of the 50 tooth cog, the chain rests on the tops of the teeth, rather than moving into place. I'm going to compare the two cassettes to see if the 50 tooth on X01 cassette was indexed incorrectly during assembly to the rest of the cassette. I can't figure out what else it might be causing the problem.
> 
> I've always been borderline fanatical about limit screw adjustment, I am fairly certain that is not the issue.
> 
> Aside from this problem, I am very impressed with all other aspects of performance.


Check the B tension screw. I just installed Eagle XO1 on my Santa Cruz 5010v1. If the back pulley wheel is too close to the 50 tooth the back pully almost hits the rear cog as it shifts and it can cause issue. Resting the chain on top, binding etc. i am using grip shift and at one point if I shifted slowly the chain would raise up and drop onto the 50 tooth no problem. If I shifted quickly it would sit the chain on top. Try shifting slowly into the 50 tooth and see if it allows it to drop in correctly. If that is the case the rear derailleur is probably too close to the cassette

I have set up a multitude of different drive trains and this one was throwing me for a loop. It was not until I put it up in the the stand and played around with the b tension screw that I was able to get it figured out. Of course I was doing this by myself and the set up vid says to set the B tension screw while the bike is sagged to where you ride. And Yes I do have the red tool that came with it. Admittedly I only have maybe 100 miles on it at this point, but it is now working well.

This system is more sensitive to B tension screw than anything I have worked on before. And once you get done messing around with B tension make certain your limit screws are set properly.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Added the lube to the derailler end of the cable to prevent icing and sticking...seems to have worked out the shifting is much better...

Probably gonna try some fluorocarbon ski wax for the permenant fix.


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## gomeralex (Oct 23, 2015)

I'm setting up a eagle drivetrain and followed the sram tech video. It is just not shifting correctly, the b-gap changed by itself on the bench after shifting I swear( is it just me or are some teeth shorter than others on 50 BTW...if so does that even matter what tooth I'm gapping?) Sagged it and adjusted b-gap again(changed again but understandable) Took it out and yeah it goes thru the gears but not snappy. I'm going to mess with the cable tension some more and maybe the low limit( chain not perfectly seating on 50) but this is frustrating as I went a whole year on XX11 with no adjustments needed. Plz help!


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## Stone0207 (Apr 16, 2014)

I found that cable tension is what you need to look at. I needed to get it just right during my installation to get the limits correctly set. Not too tight but at the same time not too loose..difficult to explain. It will also need some break in time but since then its working like a charm. what I want to say, you need to try and error a little bit but you will get there.


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## gomeralex (Oct 23, 2015)

That helps, I feel like I'm close but I was so hyped up on the performance that anything less than perfect first time out is frustrating. Another surprise was the minimum chain clearance with both the hanger in 10 and also the tire in 50, pushing the limits there(running 26er real tire dia-27"x2.5")


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

The first thing you need to do, even with a brand new bike is check the derailleur hanger! :madman: They are almost always bent a small amount. With the small steps between gears, it will drive you mad adjusting the derailleur with no luck. The park hanger tool is worth its weight in gold. My frame had a small misalignment of the rear axle too. I had to file some material off of the hanger interface to get perfect alignment. My hanger was only a couple of degrees out, but on my XX1 bike that made shifting miserable. There is no way to eyeball this. Yes you can get it back on the trail but with this big of a range it needs to be perfect.

The 50 tooth appears to be narrow wide just like the front ring. I noticed it when I was setting up my chain length. The way the ramps are arranged it will only ever get to the 50 in the correct pattern, but if you place it on there for setup it can be off by 1 tooth.

Most Santa cruz bike have chain growth so you want a smaller gap to compensate for the extra gap at sag and beyond. Also you need to compress the suspension to max length when measuring the chain or you will be snapping derailleur hangers left and right. Or bending them on bottom out and FUBARing your shifting.

The stock grease that comes on the chain is way to thick. if you don't strip it off and put your normal lube on it will gum up in short order and start skipping on the cassette. I strip all of my new chains and run finish line dry lube.


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## m3the01 (Aug 11, 2008)

Can anyone give me a photo of a xo1 or xx1 from the rear? I crashed, bent hanger and replaced but shifts aren't as perfect as prior.

The upper pulley is pretty aligned but the lower pulley seems off, definitely not perfectly aligned but I'm not sure if it's suppose to be like the upper pulley.

This is xx1 where the wheelie is forged aluminum and the far side is carbon.

Thanks~!!!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

m3the01 said:


> Can anyone give me a photo of a xo1 or xx1 from the rear? I crashed, bent hanger and replaced but shifts aren't as perfect as prior.
> 
> The upper pulley is pretty aligned but the lower pulley seems off, definitely not perfectly aligned but I'm not sure if it's suppose to be like the upper pulley.
> 
> ...


As a mountain biker- the best invest you can make is in a Derailleur hanger straightening tool. You'd be surprised how much just a tiny off can affect shifting.


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## m3the01 (Aug 11, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> As a mountain biker- the best invest you can make is in a Derailleur hanger straightening tool. You'd be surprised how much just a tiny off can affect shifting.


As mentioned, the hanger is replaced and ive been doing this a long time... hanger straightener is a reasonable short term fix to get a ride in but replace at earliest convenience.

Im thinking the cage is bent or tweaked,


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

m3the01 said:


> As mentioned, the hanger is replaced and ive been doing this a long time... hanger straightener is a reasonable short term fix to get a ride in but replace at earliest convenience.
> 
> Im thinking the cage is bent or tweaked,


Then you also know a new hanger may not be spot on.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

m3the01 said:


> As mentioned, the hanger is replaced and ive been doing this a long time... hanger straightener is a reasonable short term fix to get a ride in but replace at earliest convenience.
> 
> Im thinking the cage is bent or tweaked,


New hangers are rarely straight even on brand new bikes. A hanger straightening tool is a long term fix for all the bumps and tumbles your bike will take. I have bent mine back several times before it needed replaced. the lower pulley can be out of alignment and not effect shifting, but i would check it with a straight edge or ruler.
That is after you make sure your hanger is straight. There is no way to eye ball it and with the small gaps of a 12 speed, any misalignment will give you **** shifting.


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## m3the01 (Aug 11, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> Then you also know a new hanger may not be spot on.


As much as I've heard talk of this I've never seen it... But I have another brand new so it's something easy to try.

If the upper pulley didn't look so aligned I would argue derailleur body or hanger... Likely pulley cage.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Always use a hangar tool to check them, even on new parts, new bikes. They are rarely straight out of the box.


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## drifter248 (Nov 1, 2011)

Rarely do I find a even new derailleur hanger that does not need to be aligned. Its usually because the frame is not perfectly aligned and not that the new hanger is bent.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Either way I love when you hear I've been doing this a long time and they make an assumption and skip a very basic step. Knew a lot of mechanics that were like that.


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## m3the01 (Aug 11, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> Either way I love when you hear I've been doing this a long time and they make an assumption and skip a very basic step. Knew a lot of mechanics that were like that.


I just haven't had bad luck with new hangers, or misaligned rear triangles, like you guys, 15+ bikes... Bent hangers many a times though ;-)


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## DandyAndy (Jan 21, 2017)

Hi Guys, I follow SRAM's installation video to the letter and got stuck. Using gripshifts, I seem to have not enough shifting range. I cannot reach largest (50T, 12th) cog. Pulley hangs a little bit left to 11th cog. I can push it to 12th with a hand, but shifting cable does not bring enough tension to pull it to the level of 12th cog. Does anyone have any idea what is wrong?﻿


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## Stone0207 (Apr 16, 2014)

Guess you need more tension on the cable. I found that tighten the cable just right is decisive also for shifting performance


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

You pull cable to go up the cassette to the 50. You let out cable to go down to the 11. If you have cable slack, then you limit screws are not setup right. 
Two Wheels Good, Four Wheels Bad: How to Adjust SRAM XX1 Rear Derailleur


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I would try turning the low limit screw out a 1/2 turn or so and see what happens, sometimes even if you can shift to that gear manually (without cable) it isn't quite enough because the derailleur needs to overshift slightly and then settle back. Always make sure it's impossible to manually push the derailleur into the spokes after re-adjusting though.

Is it shifting through the rest of the gears well?


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## DandyAndy (Jan 21, 2017)

Thank you guys. I'm not there yet. I am still at the very beginning and adjusting without the chain.
*alexbn921* - thank you for that link. When reading through that blog I noticed 1 thing that confused me. That Chris indicated that his H-limit is on the right and L-limit is on the left if you look from behind. In Sram's video H - left, L - right. I went to recheck and it seems to me that the latter is correct for my Eagle... 

So, I readjusted the limits again completely without cable, just by pushing the derailleur by hand or relaxing it. The limits seem to be ok.
Then I fix the cable. When I open cage and shift all the gears (pulling the cable, 11 clicks in total) pulley doesn't reach the largest (12th) socket, it stays between 11th and 12th. Right in the middle. There is not enough cable tension to reach 12th socket.

If I fix the cable with higher tension like *Stone0207* suggests, of course I'm reaching 12th, but then I'm not on the smallest (1st) socket anymore when I shift down completely (letting cable go).

That is what i mean by not having enough range. Somehow I do not see this having to do anything with limits... 

I am utterly confused. The only idea I have is that indexing in the shifter is wrong. But I really hope that it is just me doing something wrong.


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## niels65 (Jun 11, 2015)

*Eagle on Crossmax XL Pro*

Anyone has experience with Eagle on Mavic Crossmax XL Pro 27,5" wheels?
Thinking about upgrading my Commencal Meta AM V4 from 1x11 XO1 to Eagle XO1...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

@DandyAndy-

The fact that you can move the derailleur further inboard with more cable tensions suggests that the limit screw isn't the issue. Cable restriction could cause this issue, are the cables and housing both new and feel smooth? Also incorrect cable routing at the anchor bolt could possibly cause that. I'm guessing you have the right shifter.

And why are you adjusting it without the chain?


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

DandyAndy said:


> Thank you guys. I'm not there yet. I am still at the very beginning and adjusting without the chain.
> *alexbn921* - thank you for that link. When reading through that blog I noticed 1 thing that confused me. That Chris indicated that his H-limit is on the right and L-limit is on the left if you look from behind. In Sram's video H - left, L - right. I went to recheck and it seems to me that the latter is correct for my Eagle...
> 
> So, I readjusted the limits again completely without cable, just by pushing the derailleur by hand or relaxing it. The limits seem to be ok.
> ...


are you adjusting cable tension starting in top gear? (smallest cog)
Like JBW said, once you set your limit screws, you should install the chain before adjusting cable tension.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

DandyAndy. List of things to check:
1. Hanger alignment. Even new ones are usually bent.
2. limit screws. Over adjust them and them bring them back so you can't over shift off the cassette.
3. Cable is routed correctly around the pinch bolt on the rear derailleur.
4. Cable is not binding on the way to the rear derailleur.

There are only 11 clicks on a 12 speed. Starting on the 10 tooth set your lower limit and cable tension so it will shift up 1 and then back down. Check each click that it moves all the way up the cassette. Once its on the 50 adjust your upper limit so it can't shift into the spokes. Also on the 50 set you b tension screw to so you have 13-15 mm of clearance. sag effects this so subtract distance to compensate for your chain growth.


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## DandyAndy (Jan 21, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> @DandyAndy-
> 
> The fact that you can move the derailleur further inboard with more cable tensions suggests that the limit screw isn't the issue.


think so too


J.B. Weld said:


> Cable restriction could cause this issue, are the cables and housing both new and feel smooth? Also incorrect cable routing at the anchor bolt could possibly cause that.


I'm buildin this bike from scratch. Everything is brand new. Routing is good. No bends, no angles.


J.B. Weld said:


> I'm guessing you have the right shifter.


You would laugh, but though I was absolutely sure shifter is correct, I rechecked this after an hour of struggle  It got Eagle logo. It shifts 11 klicks... It's even X01, like the derailleur. (I mixed X01 and XX1 parts) 


J.B. Weld said:


> And why are you adjusting it without the chain?


That is very to the point! My answer as a noob would be an hour ago - why not? I am a fresh Sram convert, got only experience with Shimanos. Always did initial setup w/o chain. Shimanos always went full range. Adjust, then do the Barrel while driving. Worked well.
However!!! I read meanwhile some older posts here on MTBR. Some people seems to had exactly kind of problem with X01/XX1 derailleurs when x11 was introduced (and some commented that same kind was observed with new x9). One finding was to adjust only with chain on. Srams seem to behave drastically different when chain is on. That is what I gonna try tomorrow. 
Still believe it is an enigma, why wouldn't the derailleur go full range...


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## DandyAndy (Jan 21, 2017)

fsrxc said:


> are you adjusting cable tension starting in top gear? (smallest cog)
> Like JBW said, once you set your limit screws, you should install the chain before adjusting cable tension.


Yes (just like they tell in video) and will try first thing in the morning.


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## DandyAndy (Jan 21, 2017)

niels65 said:


> Anyone has experience with Eagle on Mavic Crossmax XL Pro 27,5" wheels?
> Thinking about upgrading my Commencal Meta AM V4 from 1x11 XO1 to Eagle XO1...


I'm trying Eagle on Mavic XA Elite 29" at the moment. Having troubles setting up, as you see. Though I'm pretty sure it got nothing to do with the wheels.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

DandyAndy said:


> I'm trying Eagle on Mavic XA Elite 29" at the moment. Having troubles setting up, as you see. Though I'm pretty sure it got nothing to do with the wheels.


Haven't seen anyone mention those wheels on here yet. Please share your thoughts once you have some time on em!


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## curbhuck (Aug 10, 2007)

Anyone know if you can run a 12 speed chain with an 11 speed sram cassette?

I run a second set of wheels on my yeti for the bike park and hate the idea of buying another pricey 12 speed cassette...

Thanks


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

curbhuck said:


> Anyone know if you can run a 12 speed chain with an 11 speed sram cassette?
> 
> I run a second set of wheels on my yeti for the bike park and hate the idea of buying another pricey 12 speed cassette...
> 
> Thanks


It's not compatible. The 12 speed is narrower and will not shift right. It still might work, but I would expect it to cause problems.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Please try it and tell us! The 12 speed chain has the same inside width as 11s. It is only narrower on the outside. The eagle 12s chain has some very interesting technology. 
Alexbn921 - any real world experience to justify "it will not shift right"? Just asking, no dis intended.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

None taken. Only experience with 8 and 9 speed chains on 7 and 8 cassettes. They worked but would fall in between the larger spaces between gears and get hung up on top of the teeth. The front was way worse then the back.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

curbhuck said:


> I run a second set of wheels on my yeti for the bike park and hate the idea of buying another pricey 12 speed cassette...
> 
> Thanks


That would also require switching out the shifter, even if the chain would work...might as well just swap out the chain as well.

Or, take the money form the 11 speed shifter, cassette, and chain and buy an eagle cassette.


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## drifter248 (Nov 1, 2011)

curbhuck said:


> Anyone know if you can run a 12 speed chain with an 11 speed sram cassette?
> 
> I run a second set of wheels on my yeti for the bike park and hate the idea of buying another pricey 12 speed cassette...
> 
> Thanks


Have you considered swapping the 12 speed cassette between the two sets of wheels. I also run two sets of wheels and didn't want to fork over the money for an expensive second cassette, so I decided to swap the cassette between the two sets of wheels. Only takes a couple of minutes at most. I also tend to use one set of wheels much more than the other. Swapping the cassette keeps all the drivetrain pieces together, which may help prevent shifting problems in the future since all the components are wearing together.


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## Culwen (Dec 23, 2015)

*Sram Eagle X01 Shifter*

Got my X01 eagle yesterday. Not impressed with the shifting, felt some resistance going up the last few cogs but I'll try with B-tension and the red plastic guide later.

HOWEVER, has anyone taken a closer look at the shifter finishing? Just look at the cap tolerance. Coming from an X9 shifter, I must say this feels more like a bad QC/ design tolerance issues. Going back to my LBS to have it replaced if mine is a defect. (unlikely)


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Man that looks pretty bad.


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## Culwen (Dec 23, 2015)

I rode my eagle a few days now and noticed the skipping. The gums are no joke. Will clean and relube to check. My LBS mechanic seem to uphold his ego and dismiss the eagle recommended installation video. When I first got the eagle assembled by the supposedly experienced mechanic, it shifts like garbage. Worst than my worn out X9 1x10 with 40t Hope. So much resistance going up and grinding going downshifts. Then I re-did everything based on video and realised the Btension screw was set way way off. Now it shifts so smooth it is impossible.. especially going up to 50t what the hell it's instantaneous I can actually upshift under load..

Thinking I should replace the hangar if relubing doesnt solve skipping. The same mechanic said my hangar is fine but judging from his way of assembling my drivetrain..maybe ill just replace it anw. Had a bad crash previously.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Culwen said:


> I rode my eagle a few days now and noticed the skipping. The gums are no joke. Will clean and relube to check. My LBS mechanic seem to uphold his ego and dismiss the eagle recommended installation video. When I first got the eagle assembled by the supposedly experienced mechanic, it shifts like garbage. Worst than my worn out X9 1x10 with 40t Hope. So much resistance going up and grinding going downshifts. Then I re-did everything based on video and realised the Btension screw was set way way off. Now it shifts so smooth it is impossible.. especially going up to 50t what the hell it's instantaneous I can actually upshift under load..
> 
> Thinking I should replace the hangar if relubing doesnt solve skipping. The same mechanic said my hangar is fine but judging from his way of assembling my drivetrain..maybe ill just replace it anw. Had a bad crash previously.


Even a new RD hanger can be off, better off getting an alignment tool first.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

New hangers are rarely straight. You need derailleur straightening tool like a park DAG-2.2. Most of the time you can save a bent hanger without needing to replace it. Even a new one needs to be checked.


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## Culwen (Dec 23, 2015)

Alrighty. Thanks for the tip. I think ill head down to a LBS to have it checked. Im also suspecting the preload adjuster on the crank not being installed correctly (its all the way in towards the crank leaving a big gap from the BB) although there no side to side play.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Culwen said:


> Alrighty. Thanks for the tip. I think ill head down to a LBS to have it checked. Im also suspecting the preload adjuster on the crank not being installed correctly (its all the way in towards the crank leaving a big gap from the BB) although there no side to side play.


It normal for sram cranks to have a gap on the drive side. They only use the non-drive side for preload. If there is no side play everything is probably installed right. Both crank arms should be the same distance from the rear stays, otherwise you are missing a spacer.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

hey guys, hoping someone can help or advise

had eagle x01 fitted a week now, shifting is absolutely instant and perfect everytime

however when im in the second biggest cog (42t) im getting a skipping/pulling type noise under load, just in this specific gear, as soon as i shift below or up it goes away

It isnt noticeable when its flat or steady climb but as soon as you put the power down or a off road road steep undulatin climb ots quite apparent, again as soon as i shift up into 50t it disappears?

it almost sounds like the chains too short, which it isnt and it doesnt make a sound in the 50t

any ideas? all new kit but running a absolute black oval chainring


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Hey all, sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm curious about the compatibility between Shimano chain rings and the Eagle chain and cassette. I'm building up a new bike and have always been a fan of SRAM drivetrains, but I really don't care for the expensive cranks. I also don't like NW chain rings. I just prefer using the old style of chain rings and I like how inexpensive the Shimano XT 1x11 crank and chain rings are. I just don't know if they will work with the eagle chain and cassette. Can anyone here help me out?


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## DandyAndy (Jan 21, 2017)

Laterilus said:


> Hey all, sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm curious about the compatibility between Shimano chain rings and the Eagle chain and cassette.


I'm not an expert, but every PM from SRAM who pushed Eagle over Youtube mentioned that even Sram's non-Eagle chainrings are not compatible. The upgrade kit is Chainring, Chain, Cass. and Der. I just cannot imagin' Sram and Shimano bein' compatible in any way. Also, you confused me with a statement that you don't like NW Chainrings. Eagle is NW. Chain won't fit otherwise. What d'ya mean exactly?
As for scenario of mounting Eagle Chainring on Shimano's crancs - take a look at Sram's chainring mount. Does Shimano got same mount? (Q is not rhetorical. I just don't know myself). Mine ol' XTR got very standard 4 arms mount.


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

Didzy2009 said:


> hey guys, hoping someone can help or advise
> 
> had eagle x01 fitted a week now, shifting is absolutely instant and perfect everytime
> 
> ...


Make sure that the b tension screw is adjusted correctly using the adjustment gauge. If you're on a full suspension, make sure you do the adjustment while the bike is sagged.


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## DandyAndy (Jan 21, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> @DandyAndy-
> And why are you adjusting it without the chain?


I was to busy over last week, got no time to post, but wanted to give you a brief update. 
Adjusting Eagle is total voodoo in my case. As J.B. suggested I tried to adjust with the chain on. Made no difference whatsoever. I bugged the hell out of SRAM guys and shop mechanics as I really wanted to avoid sending derailleur back. They were utterly useless except for the statement that it is no supposed to be like that and if I follow instruction video there suppose to be no problems. At this point I reached the peak of my frustration, decided to send der to the handler, but went for last try.
I threw away all the logic, started to randomly play with Barrel and B-tension. I also retensed the cable before. Like Stone0207 wrote and suggested, I cannot really describe it exactly, but I tried to reach maximum tension while Der. still not moved from optimal position (pulley center over outer edge of the cog).
Anyway after random and chaotic play with those things I noted that derailleur goes full range. After further play with Barrel I got shifting relatively precise. No clue what I did or how I did it, but it seems to shift now on a stand. Maybe something settled in the shifter. At the moment I cannot try shifting under load. Will see. 
However I have very strong chordal action on 2 highest gears (smallest cogs) - very strong vibration. Even when I'm turning cranks slowly can still feel this sort of dull clicks. I can't be sure, but I don't remember having it at the beginning when I had not enough range.
Does anyone also experience this vibration?


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## DandyAndy (Jan 21, 2017)

*On a side note...*

Such chain cross gives me creeps. :skep: Are you guys ok with it?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

DandyAndy said:


> Such chain cross gives me creeps. :skep: Are you guys ok with it?
> View attachment 1123530


Not the best camera angle so hard to tell but the chain should be about straight when in the 5th cog from the smallest (near center) There's always going to be a pretty big angle when in the biggest cog.

What's up with the slack chain?



DandyAndy said:


> Anyway after random and chaotic play with those things I noted that derailleur goes full range.


Obviously not the optimal adjustment method. I don't mean to sound demeaning in any way but if I were you I'd start over from the beginning and follow instructions as precisely as possible, and if you're still not able to get it right I'd pony up and pay a shop to figure out the problem. That's an expensive drivetrain and it should function perfectly.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Dude. You just spent $1200 on a drive train, take it to your shop and have them fix it. It's a 10 minute process to check and adjust everything. You are missing something and are probably going to mess something up if you keep tinkering with it.


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## DandyAndy (Jan 21, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> Not the best camera angle so hard to tell but the chain should be about straight when in the 5th cog from the smallest (near center) There's always going to be a pretty big angle when in the biggest cog.
> 
> What's up with the slack chain?


Camera angle is ok. It's pretty much exactly the way I see it. Chain is slacked because not fixed yet. It is indeed straight at 5th cog. I'm new to 1x schemes. Such cross has just really creep me out. Wanted to hear what more experienced people think.



J.B. Weld said:


> Obviously not the optimal adjustment method. I don't mean to sound demeaning in any way but if I were you I'd start over from the beginning and follow instructions as precisely as possible, and if you're still not able to get it right I'd pony up and pay a shop to figure out the problem. That's an expensive drivetrain and it should function perfectly.


Obviously not  Yep! You are right. I just really dislike it to rely on LBS when it comes to adjustments. This way I don't know what they did and cannot reproduce it later. But if I'm hitting the wall here, it's either ponying up or sending back to handler. LBS seems to be a less evil alternative.


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## DandyAndy (Jan 21, 2017)

alexbn921 said:


> Dude. You just spent $1200 on a drive train, take it to your shop and have them fix it. It's a 10 minute process to check and adjust everything. You are missing something and are probably going to mess something up if you keep tinkering with it.


Yep :sad:

Do you guys experiencing these strong vibrations on highest gears I described in my previous post? (not sure whether it's chordal action, but 'd call it so)


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

DandyAndy said:


> Such cross has just really creep me out. Wanted to hear what more experienced people think.


If the chain is straight near the middle it must angle towards the cogs @ the extremes, no way around that. You can bias it a little one way or the other, most chainlines are set slightly outboard.

Why are bike shops evil? I would gladly show customers how to adjust their gears if the timing was right (not busy). Boxing and shipping a bike for a derailleur adjustment doesn't seem economically viable.

You might want to start a separate thread on this, it doesn't seem like an Eagle deal.


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## StumpyElite2010 (Feb 3, 2011)

Will the Eagle front chainring work with XX1 11-speed chain ?
Thinking about replacing my 30T/spider XX1 with an eagle spider-less chainring. (6 mm offset non-boos)


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Ive had a good play with b tensiom and my skipping noise is still there, however i noticed randomly when it was in the standthe cause, basically as i shift up quickly into 42t, the chain sits on top of the 42t rather than meshing in to place

So slowly rotating the cranks it made the exact same noise thats been annoying me! 

If i slowly shift up it doesnt do it, if i fast shift it does every other time! But doesnt sit in even after many rotations

Soo is this likely to be a barrell adjuster job to fix? Does it sound like a cable tension thing?


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

Didzy2009 said:


> Ive had a good play with b tensiom and my skipping noise is still there, however i noticed randomly when it was in the standthe cause, basically as i shift up quickly into 42t, the chain sits on top of the 42t rather than meshing in to place
> 
> So slowly rotating the cranks it made the exact same noise thats been annoying me!
> 
> ...


Easiest answer would be to try it. Add a little tension and see if it drops on, or possible release a little tension and see what happens. I would say that the setup to this system to me was more particular about the B tension than any drivetrain I have ever worked with before. I was struggling to get crisp shifting when I first installed my drivetrain. I started back from square one. First thing I did was let all the air back out of my shock and make sure I was not tweaking my rear derailleur from a chain that was too short by cycling the suspension through the full range of motion. After ensuring that my chain was sized properly I set the b tension screw AT THE PROPER SAG percentage using the red tool that came with the rear Der. I then double checked the low and high limit screws. After going through all of this I set cable tension which is also very particular on this setup. After I had it perfect in the stand I rode it and made a very slight barrel adjustment. After that the shifting was dialed.

I know some people are saying that the rear derailleur hanger has to be picture perfect with this system for it to work properly. I am not saying I disagree but my shifting was perfect with my. XT 2x10 setup with the derailleur hanger I have and the reality of a having a perfect rear derailleur hanger on a mountain bike is unrealistic. If the hanger took a good shot then by all means straighten It up, replace it, or have your LBS straighten. Other than that a MTB drivetrain should be able to tune out a minor tweak to a rear derailleur. I can pretty much guarantee that while my rear hanger is not grossly deformed it is far from perfect(my old rear der is fairly beat up at this point.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Well ive messed and tried again after some advice off guys running it etc

And its just the same, noisy in 42t, but in the stand and on the trail the chain isnt meshing with the 42t cog, it will do it if shift up slowly 1 at a time but if i do a couple of fast shifts the chain wont mesh into the 42t it just sits on top like it doesnt fit, and then it doesnt just fall in to place after a few rotations, it just keeps not meshing in the 42t only way then to remedy it is to shift up and then back down or the other way on the cassette

So im pretty stumped but its pretty annoying as i need to be able fast shift and dont want to be worried everytime i shift up quickly tha chains not in place, it basically its not meshing sounds so skippy that it feels like the chain would snap with any more pressure, god knows what its also doing to the teeth on the cassette too

Ps this is all new kit, inc new oval chainring (but does it on a round one too so rules that out) new inner and outer and the shop checked mech hanger was straight prior to installtation


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## ndatube67 (Mar 23, 2016)

Have you tried a different shifter cable? I had what sounds like very similiar symptoms with my xx1 eagle drive train and it ended up being the cable. Now this was after several hundred miles of riding. New cable fixed it for me.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

The cable was brand new and unused, its been doing this since day one installation, and its not worn in or disappeared, its totally random even some fast upshifts it meshes, but this is when it doesnt, as i said slow shifts and its fine

Cant really understand why its only the 42t? Not the 50t? 

its buggin me mainly cos the shifting is crisp and perfect so im struggling see how its the setup


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## HyperSprite (Mar 14, 2014)

*Eagle 34T 104 bcd chainring on Shimano M980 Cranks*

If anyone was wondering if this setup worked, it does using the original shimano bolts and nut things.







One note though, not sure if it will matter, I guess I'm gonna find out but the ridge on the inside of the crank arms and the chainring inner edge do not match flush. This might be a problem (perhaps because there is no support for chainring alignment, not sure), I guess I'll see.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Didzy2009 said:


> The cable was brand new and unused, its been doing this since day one installation, and its not worn in or disappeared, its totally random even some fast upshifts it meshes, but this is when it doesnt, as i said slow shifts and its fine
> 
> Cant really understand why its only the 42t? Not the 50t?
> 
> its buggin me mainly cos the shifting is crisp and perfect so im struggling see how its the setup


I helped a friend install a new Eagle with brand new cable. Same issues as you. After hours upon hours he took to LBS. They installed new cable. Fixed everything. Factory new cable had tiny tiny tiny undetectable kink.


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## StumpyElite2010 (Feb 3, 2011)

Answering myself...
Just replaced 30Txx1+Spider with an Eagle 30T 6 mm Offset - Total saving of 30 gr... LOL
On the stand it looks like it works fine - will take it to the trail tomorrow for a spin.









Edit 3-3
Took it for a spin - works like a charm.
Some crunching noises I had before are gone, but it may be due to the fact that when installing the chain-wheel I lubed the bearings.
(the one on the drive-side was not moving smoothly - time for new BB I guess)


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

So today I learnt if you ride in muddy slop wolftooth oval rings are not compatible with eagle. When mine got shitted up in the extreme gears the chain kept riding up and coming off the front ring.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Rick Draper said:


> So today I learnt if you ride in muddy slop wolftooth oval rings are not compatible with eagle. When mine got shitted up in the extreme gears the chain kept riding up and coming off the front ring.


Get a Garbaruk ring. They seem to shed mud much easier than other designs.

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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

westin said:


> I helped a friend install a new Eagle with brand new cable. Same issues as you. After hours upon hours he took to LBS. They installed new cable. Fixed everything. Factory new cable had tiny tiny tiny undetectable kink.


interesting, was it just one the 42t it skipped when shifted up to quick? didn't really think a new cable could be kinked but ill have a look into that next, its still doing it


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

For those that installed an Eagle setup on their bike, did you have tension on the derailleur when in the smallest cog on the cassette? I setup the chain they way SRAM recommended, an overlap of one inner link and one outer link on a FS when in the longest position from crank to rear axle, however there is a ton of play in the chain when in the highest gear and absolutely no tension on the derailleur. Seeing if anyone may have run into this.


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## HyperSprite (Mar 14, 2014)

xler8 said:


> For those that installed an Eagle setup on their bike, did you have tension on the derailleur when in the smallest cog on the cassette?...


{ edit, removed what I said because I totally forgot I did the chain without routing it through the mech and don't want to confuse anyone who reads this later }

See next post, that is what I did.


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

They say to set the chain length without running it thru the derailleur. Just wrap it around the biggest cog and the crank.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

get a 6-9sp and dont look back!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

xler8 said:


> They say to set the chain length without running it thru the derailleur. Just wrap it around the biggest cog and the crank.


That's a bit of an incomplete explanation, eh?










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## niels65 (Jun 11, 2015)

xler8 said:


> For those that installed an Eagle setup on their bike, did you have tension on the derailleur when in the smallest cog on the cassette? I setup the chain they way SRAM recommended, an overlap of one inner link and one outer link on a FS when in the longest position from crank to rear axle, however there is a ton of play in the chain when in the highest gear and absolutely no tension on the derailleur. Seeing if anyone may have run into this.


I still have tension on the derailleur though it it doesn't look of much, the chain is still tight. I followed the instruction in the SRAM installation video on YouTube.


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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

sounds like overall positive reviews, and a few guys having with issues with the fine tuning; which is to be expected.

i like the idea of added range, especially when running plus sized tires and wheels. i think this is in the cards for me....


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## robnow (Apr 12, 2010)

I switched out XO1 11 speed for XO1 Eagle this week on my 1 year old Hightower. I have a new Sixc (2 rides before switching) crank and 32 AB Oval ring as well. Took it out to the schoolyard to practice flat pedals on its inaugural Eagle ride and its creaking from the rear end/drivetrain.

Unfortunately my lbs also reserviced pivots while doing the Eagle install so a second variable was added. To eliminate the creaking we've tried:
- swapping in a totally different wheel/cassette off a new Hightower
- new cassette
- new shifter
- redid pivots twice
- different ring
- different crank
- redid bb
- new chain
- I think the hanger was regreased/cleaned
- different pedals

Nothing has solved the creaking that was not there prior to putting the Eagle on. The ONLY thing left to try today is a new derailleur, otherwise I'm putting the old 1x11 back on. Creaking happens when under high torque/power especially in top half range of cassette.

We're stumped!?!


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## Culwen (Dec 23, 2015)

What kind of creak though? The eagle cassette needs some time to bed in. After that its silent. Some of the early reviews mentioned that this is normal.


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## robnow (Apr 12, 2010)

Culwen said:


> What kind of creak though? The eagle cassette needs some time to bed in. After that its silent. Some of the early reviews mentioned that this is normal.


Constant creaking happens under load when pedalling hard and louder when in top half (bigger sprockets), seems to come from back end (hub/cassette). Would you have a link to any of these reviews, I haven't seen that before?


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## Culwen (Dec 23, 2015)

That's normal. Happened to mine and my 2 other buddies, black and gold.

You can read this as well
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/sram-eagle-drivetrain-review-2016.html


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## robnow (Apr 12, 2010)

Culwen said:


> That's normal. Happened to mine and my 2 other buddies, black and gold.
> 
> You can read this as well
> https://m.pinkbike.com/news/sram-eagle-drivetrain-review-2016.html


YES, Thank you, that definitely seems to be what it is, hopefully thats the case.


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

What if the creaking hasn't gone away? After I installed mine, the first 20-30 miles were silent. Then the creak started and has yet to go away. It's exactly like everyone has described. So annoying! Especially after dropping a good amount of $$ for it...


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## robnow (Apr 12, 2010)

xler8 said:


> What if the creaking hasn't gone away? After I installed mine, the first 20-30 miles were silent. Then the creak started and has yet to go away. It's exactly like everyone has described. So annoying! Especially after dropping a good amount of $$ for it...


How many miles do you have on it now...this is also what I'm worried about.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

My XX1 11 speed creaked. I checked everything and it was driving me crazy. Turns out it was the interface between the derailleur hanger and the b tension screw assembly. It would shift around on the mounting nut and rub the corner of the hanger. I ended up filing the hanger to match the assemble better and using a spring washer to take out the slack. The eagle one has a much better interface but it could still cause problems.


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## robnow (Apr 12, 2010)

Yes, 10-42 cassettes had common issue of creaking in 42 sprocket due to its pinned nature.

Btw, hot enduro tip, EWS entries have MORE than payed for themselves after a visit to the SRAM tent.


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## robnow (Apr 12, 2010)

Culwen said:


> That's normal. Happened to mine and my 2 other buddies, black and gold.
> 
> You can read this as well
> https://m.pinkbike.com/news/sram-eagle-drivetrain-review-2016.html


It's three cassettes we've tried...my confidence is low

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## niels65 (Jun 11, 2015)

My XO1 Eagle has now run 100 miles, and after running it in it's silent as a church, and shifting i crisp and prompt throughout the entire cassette. Are you certain that the hanger is straight and derailleur is mounted and B-tension is adjusted according the the SRAM instruction with SAG?


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

That happened to my X01 Eagle as well (creaking). Come to find that the derailleur bolt loosens up over time. Tightened it up and creak is now gone.


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## ericm979 (Sep 25, 2013)

Didzy2009 said:


> hey guys, hoping someone can help or advise
> 
> had eagle x01 fitted a week now, shifting is absolutely instant and perfect everytime
> 
> ...


Did you get this fixed? Mine does it too. I can adjust the cable to eliminate the ticking in the 2nd to largest cog but then upshifting is poor in some middle cogs. Chain hanger is straight (set with DAG-2) and the B tension was set with the funky orange piece of plastic, with sag (though I could have done it wrong). It shifts to the 2nd to largest cog fine, it just makes a tick noise like it's about to jump to the 3rd cog, only when climbing. The chain runs quietly on the large cog.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Ive just had this on mine constant tick/click type creak 

Got to the rear bolt and it was loose as can be, then started to take it out to regrease everything and then a load of o rings and stuff popped out so now i have no clue how it all goes back together

I initially thought the click was my dm cinch ring loose and it may well still be until i can get to the tool tomoz 

But likely being the bolt for me, mines has been silent until this last two weeks and ive had a constant clicl type creak


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

By now there's about 100 miles on the drivetrain.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Didzy2009 said:


> Ive just had this on mine constant tick/click type creak
> 
> Got to the rear bolt and it was loose as can be, then started to take it out to regrease everything and then a load of o rings and stuff popped out so now i have no clue how it all goes back together
> 
> ...


Rear derailleur bolt?


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## Culwen (Dec 23, 2015)

ericm979 said:


> Did you get this fixed? Mine does it too. I can adjust the cable to eliminate the ticking in the 2nd to largest cog but then upshifting is poor in some middle cogs. Chain hanger is straight (set with DAG-2) and the B tension was set with the funky orange piece of plastic, with sag (though I could have done it wrong). It shifts to the 2nd to largest cog fine, it just makes a tick noise like it's about to jump to the 3rd cog, only when climbing. The chain runs quietly on the large cog.


Seems like you have pretty much tried the obvious. I read that some found the shifter cable kinked. Replacing it solves the skipping. But give it a few more rides if you haven't as I find the eagle is hyper sensitive to cable tension.

Also, I re-install mine at least 3 times and found that adjusting the limit screws needed extra caution to avoid parallex error. E.g aligning the inner side of upper pulley to the middle of fastest cog. I had to see it perpendicularly from lower rear wheel.
Same with the slowest cog.

I hope this solves the problem.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Rear derailleur bolt?


yeh sorry, rear mech bolt was very loose, literally undid, however I cant rule it out being the cranks as the DM cinch ring wasn't fully tight either!

will test over the weekend, I could create the click/creak just by stationary standing hard on either pedal, ive had this type creak before on my xx1 cranks and that was a loose dm bolt for the chainring, drove me insance for 4 months

so its either the loose rear mech bolt, or a loose dm cinch ring for me, either way, both have now been tightened

ps what torque should the rear mech bolt be???


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## briantortilla (Jun 18, 2009)

Didzy2009 said:


> yeh sorry, rear mech bolt was very loose, literally undid, however I cant rule it out being the cranks as the DM cinch ring wasn't fully tight either!
> 
> will test over the weekend, I could create the click/creak just by stationary standing hard on either pedal, ive had this type creak before on my xx1 cranks and that was a loose dm bolt for the chainring, drove me insance for 4 months
> 
> ...


Check your rear thru axle as well. I had a very similar creak and it turned out that I just needed to grease the endcaps of my hubs and the thru axle interface and put a bit more torque on the axle. It sounded exactly like a drivetrain creak.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

well very weird indeed

put everything back on after having the cranks and rear mech off

it was absolutley silent for the first 10 miles on yesterdays ride, then all of a sudden, i actaully remember hearing it back on a climb, it went from silent to suddenly clicking on every climb

stand on the pedal and its isntantly there, click click click on either side

so ive no idea really now, the mech was still tight at around 10nm on the hanger and cranks were tight

so yesterday after riding I stripped the whole rear end down and gave everything a degrease and clean, took the cassette off which felt slightly easy to get off, so ive regreased that and torqued back up to 40nm, check mech bolt and still again at 10nm, cranks stripped, inc pedals and cinch ring greased and torqued etc

all back togheter and silent again at the mo, standing on pedals cant recreate the noise at all for now, but did this the other day and it came back as above after 10 miles

my eagle suddenly sounds pretty awful in 10t cog (smallest), no idea why but it just sounds so loud and awful

so at the mo, I'm convinced the noise click click click is from the back end, if I put my ear over the cassette/mech area and someone presses down on the pedals I can hear it there making the click, so maybe the cassette wasn't tight? will find out tomoz and report back


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## majr (May 22, 2012)

Didzy2009 said:


> Well ive messed and tried again after some advice off guys running it etc
> 
> And its just the same, noisy in 42t, but in the stand and on the trail the chain isnt meshing with the 42t cog, it will do it if shift up slowly 1 at a time but if i do a couple of fast shifts the chain wont mesh into the 42t it just sits on top like it doesnt fit, and then it doesnt just fall in to place after a few rotations, it just keeps not meshing in the 42t only way then to remedy it is to shift up and then back down or the other way on the cassette
> 
> ...


Look at the inboard side of the cassette cogs. There is a bit of narrow/wide action on them. It is probably shifting up outside of the shift ramp and not meshing into the narrow/wide. Mine started doing that on the 42 and 50 randomly. I couldn't figure it out and replaced the rear derailleur, shift housing, and cable. It stopped doing that, but I'm not sure which piece fixed it. The old derailleur looked fine to me.
It still doesn't really shift that great for me. It acts like a bent hanger. Even though I put a new one on, and checked it with a DAG. ::shrug::


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## trail_slayer (Jun 4, 2012)

Does anyone know if SRAM 1x11 chain rings are compatible with the Eagle crank? I' have a 1x11 setup with non SRAM crank and want to ditch my current crank and will eventually upgrade to all Eagle.


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## HyperSprite (Mar 14, 2014)

trail_slayer said:


> Does anyone know if SRAM 1x11 chain rings are compatible with the Eagle crank?


Yes, 1x11 and 1x12 are compatible.

Sram has actually discontinued the 1x11 chainrings in favor or the new 1x12 chainrings for all of their 1x lines.


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## stratman11 (Mar 9, 2017)

Please help diagnose this problem! Building new Hightower with x01. Won't shift and stay in the 50t. Low limit screw won't pull derailleur far enough towards spokes, even before chain was installed. Backed all the way out and it just won't move any further inward. -_-


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Cable tension? Hanger alignment? I've seen new frames with bent hangers, right out of the box.

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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

stratman11 said:


> Please help diagnose this problem! Building new Hightower with x01. Won't shift and stay in the 50t. Low limit screw won't pull derailleur far enough towards spokes, even before chain was installed. Backed all the way out and it just won't move any further inward. -_-


Maybe you just worded it wrong but turning the low limit screw won't move the derailleur, it only allows it to move. Sounds like not enough cable tension or as Le Duke mentioned maybe a bent hanger. Can it be pushed inboard far enough by hand?


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Maybe you just worded it wrong but turning the low limit screw won't move the derailleur, it only allows it to move. Sounds like not enough cable tension or as Le Duke mentioned maybe a bent hanger. Can it be pushed inboard far enough by hand?


This ^^^

I deviate from the SRAM instructions by adjusting the RD low limit screw so the upper pulley lines up under 50t while pushing the RD body in with my hands. I found that adjusting it with just the RD low limit screw without pushing in the derailleur does not line up the pulley with the 50t (it comes up short and you'll run out of adjustment range).


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## stratman11 (Mar 9, 2017)

not tension - triple checked that. Could be bent hanger! they actually sent a 2nd hanger with it which puzzled me, but perhaps it's common enough to do so. Will be checking when I get time today. thanks!


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## stratman11 (Mar 9, 2017)

I hope this works! will report back tonight. Thanks for your help!


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## stratman11 (Mar 9, 2017)

After a lot of frustration and reading through forums, I found that a lot of guys were noting the touchiness of the b-screw. 

My drivetrain didn't come with the little red tool like most guys, but I found that it needs to be much closer than my old 2x10. It seems to even push the derailleur further out. I still can't get the rear cogs to match up perfectly straight, but it seems to be shifting alright, and I was even able to skip the chain into the spokes (whoops) - something that was impossible before making major tweaks to the b-screw.

So my advice to anyone with similar issues - try to adjust the **** out of the b-screw. It seems to be much touchier than on old 2x's.


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## PeteyPhil (May 12, 2016)

Somehow last weekend I managed to cleanly sheer one of the teeth off the 50t cog. Fortunately, SRAM is replacing under warranty without much hassle. Anyone else have this issue?


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

I don't have the b tension adj tool and I've read 15mm gap during sag, but getting an accurate measurement is already a PITA let alone doing while bike is sagged. Can someone tell me what the gap is on their bike without sag? I have a VPP design and just guessed 3mm of movement during sag so I'm at about 12mm gap static right now. Shifts good but trying to get it dialed after a handful of rides. 

The gap was set at the shop during install but they did not have the der properly installed was not flush against tab on hanger. I checked the hanger alignment with my DAG tool and when I loosened the der it shifted so b tension gap was not correct.


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## stratman11 (Mar 9, 2017)

^ I've got the same question (came without the tool). The B screw is super sensitive on the eagle!


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

On My tallboy 3 I gain about 2-3 at sag. So I set it closer by 2.5mm.
FYI your hanger needs to be perfect to get good shifting. Not close or that will do.
Do yourself a favor and get some Shimano sp41 housing too, nothing shifts as good. Shimano OPTISLICK Shift cable is my favorite cable right now. The coating is tougher than dura and ultegra cables.
https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=146905;menu=1000,2,168


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

alexbn921 said:


> On My tallboy 3 I gain about 2-3 at sag. So I set it closer by 2.5mm.
> FYI your hanger needs to be perfect to get good shifting. Not close or that will do.
> Do yourself a favor and get some Shimano sp41 housing too, nothing shifts as good. Shimano OPTISLICK Shift cable is my favorite cable right now. The coating is tougher than dura and ultegra cables.
> https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=146905;menu=1000,2,168


Thank you! So I should be damn close, and my hanger is dead on checked that. I worked on it yesterday and it feels good, it was shifting good before just not 100%, and I imagine the der would of shifted on it's own eventually once things loosened so glad I caught that!


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## ndatube67 (Mar 23, 2016)

I'm going through a shifter cable on my XX1 Eagle drivetrain every 75-100 miles. When shifting starts getting notchy going both up and down the cassette and the barrel adjuster does not help, I know it's time. I replace the cable and shifting performance is perfect once again. Anyone else experiencing this? Normal?

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## niels65 (Jun 11, 2015)

It seems strange - am I understanding you correctly, do. you put on a new shifter cable every 75-100 miles?
I've run ~400 miles on my X01 Eagle drivetrain since April and it's still spot on when shifting. 


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

The best shift housing is Shimano sp41. I like the new Shimano optislick cables too. 350 miles on mine and it's been perfect.


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## PeteyPhil (May 12, 2016)

ndatube67 said:


> I'm going through a shifter cable on my XX1 Eagle drivetrain every 75-100 miles. When shifting starts getting notchy going both up and down the cassette and the barrel adjuster does not help, I know it's time. I replace the cable and shifting performance is perfect once again. Anyone else experiencing this? Normal?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I don't think that's normal. I have probably 500 miles on mine with no issues.


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## ndatube67 (Mar 23, 2016)

niels65 said:


> It seems strange - am I understanding you correctly, do. you put on a new shifter cable every 75-100 miles?
> I've run ~400 miles on my X01 Eagle drivetrain since April and it's still spot on when shifting.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


you are understanding correctly

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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

ndatube67 said:


> you are understanding correctly
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Somethings definitely wrong. Swap out your housing to Shimano SP41 and use a high quality cable. Cables should last 1000+ miles and I can usually run 2 cables per housing change.


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## ndatube67 (Mar 23, 2016)

thanks for the inputs everyone

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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

Hello just posted a detailed DIY if you want to upgrade to 1x12 coming from any XD cassette. 
http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...specialized-stumpjumper-fsr-29-a-1045599.html


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

hey guys

im now about 700 miles in on my eagle, and a new chain in also, shifting has been spot on i cant fault it at all

however, mines is bloody noisy, when the chain lube is on fresh it sounds ok, but as soon as i get a few miles in the noise starts to return

its no biggy, and ive tried various chain lubes (all of which end up making the same noise)

im running a boost absolute black oval on raceface next sl cranks with eagle and wondered if anyone else's made a similar noise at all? its not a grinding or anything like that (no vibrations through the crank), just not a smooth silent drive train noise that I was used to on shimano 11 speed


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

Didzy2009 said:


> im running a boost absolute black oval on raceface next sl cranks with eagle and wondered if anyone else's made a similar noise at all? its not a grinding or anything like that (no vibrations through the crank), just not a smooth silent drive train noise that I was used to on shimano 11 speed


Hello!, it's not normal, in my case eagle feels smoother and quieter than the SRAM 1x11 I replaced. Did you self upgraded or is it a stock bike? which bike? Are you ok on the chainline? If you are using a boost chainring you must have a 148 rear hub.

A good test to check if drivetrain and chainline is working fine, is to put the bike on the lowest gear (largest 50T cog) and backpedal as fast as you can. This must be a smooth no hop process.

Also In my experience, as on the eagle cogs are closer and chain is thinner, the system needs to work on a higher precision level, so any changes in cable tension, b-screw, limit screw or misadjustment on the barrel, has a devastating effect on the system function, so I have to check gearing every 2 or 3 rides. Also I recommend to rest your bike on the highest gear (smaller cog) where cable tension is on the minimum.

If you are sure there is nothing related to my questions, I'll move to check on the BB.

Check the Sram installation video on my other post for limit and B screws adjustment and barrel adjustment process click here.

PS> In my case no need to change cables every 100 miles as ndatube67 suggested.

cheers


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

pipots said:


> Hello!, it's not normal, in my case eagle feels smoother and quieter than the SRAM 1x11 I replaced. Did you self upgraded or is it a stock bike? which bike? Are you ok on the chainline? If you are using a boost chainring you must have a 148 rear hub.
> 
> A good test to check if drivetrain and chainline is working fine, is to put the bike on the lowest gear (largest 50T cog) and backpedal as fast as you can. This must be a smooth no hop process.
> 
> ...


Hey cheers pipots

yep, boost rear hub, boost chainring, seems like its a quiet as a mouse to start with the chain lube, then it just starts to sound rough is as best I can describe it really

its not that annoying, but just kinda expected it to stay quiet as such, that said I guess all gearing makes some noise, its on a new 5010 and everything is setup spot on, no skipping, fast crisp shifting so it doesn't appear to be a problem with setup

also as I said its very quiet when fresh lube is applied too


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

Didzy2009 said:


> Hey cheers pipots
> 
> yep, boost rear hub, boost chainring, seems like its a quiet as a mouse to start with the chain lube, then it just starts to sound rough is as best I can describe it really
> 
> ...


hi didzy, I see..nice SC bike, only other idea I could come up is..are you riding on dry, hot conditions or nothing special? On dry, dusty trails, drivetrains tend to be noisier. Maybe lube is the problem? You can try and lube during a ride when noise starts again, to see if it goes away and discard mechanical problems. If that's the case, maybe a good idea would be to use a long lasting lube like Squirt Long Lasting Dry Lube (based on wax)..or maybe is just a matter of getting used


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## drifter248 (Nov 1, 2011)

Didzy2009 said:


> im running a boost absolute black oval on raceface next sl cranks with eagle and wondered if anyone else's made a similar noise at all? its not a grinding or anything like that (no vibrations through the crank), just not a smooth silent drive train noise that I was used to on shimano 11 speed


The chainring is what's causing the noise. You have two options. Replace the Absolute Black chainring with an Eagle chainring and the noise will go away or stick with the Absolute Black and accept that it won't be as quiet. Sram redesigned the tooth profile on the Eagle chainring to improve efficiency and reduce wear, but also reduce noise. I have run both the old-style Sram chainring with the square-tooth profile and the Eagle chainring with the redesigned tooth profile and the Eagle is significantly quieter. The new tooth profile on the Eagle chainring is a big improvement over the square tooth profile of the earlier design. I haven't tried running an Absolute Black chainring with an Eagle drivetrain, but I would have to believe the square-tooth profile on the Absolute Black chainring will behave similar to the square tooth profile on the pre-Eagle Sram chainring, i.e., noisier drivetrain.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

pipots said:


> hi didzy, I see..nice SC bike, only other idea I could come up is..are you riding on dry, hot conditions or nothing special? On dry, dusty trails, drivetrains tend to be noisier. Maybe lube is the problem? You can try and lube during a ride when noise starts again, to see if it goes away and discard mechanical problems. If that's the case, maybe a good idea would be to use a long lasting lube like Squirt Long Lasting Dry Lube (based on wax)..or maybe is just a matter of getting used


great minds dude,  that's my plan, as soon as it starts again ill whack some more lube on and see if its still there, I don't think its a setup issue at all as such

as drifter says, its very likely that the oval AB chainring is causing the noise, as its suppose to be much quieter with the sram eagle tooth profile

sadly if it is that would mean a new bb and get rid of my raceface next sl which I don't want too  as said its the not the end of the world noise tbh, I was more intrigued to see if anyone else had the same


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

Absolute black does not play well with eagle chain. Have Race face next crank with 1x11 sram and absolute black oval. Added new eagle chain and it was noisy as hell. Put Race Face ring on crank and noise is gone. Best shifting ever.


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

Didzy2009 said:


> sadly if it is that would mean a new bb and get rid of my raceface next sl which I don't want too  as said its the not the end of the world noise tbh, I was more intrigued to see if anyone else had the same


Not quite, you can still go just for a direct mount eagle chainring and keep the crank. If you are Boost, I think you should buy a 3mm offset chainring like this one.

But depends on the spacer so check this doc to be sure.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

pipots said:


> Not quite, you can still go just for a direct mount eagle chainring and keep the crank. If you are Boost, I think you should buy a 3mm offset chainring like this one.
> 
> But depends on the spacer so check this doc to be sure.


Huh? Dont think eagle chainrings fit raceface cranks they have a different fitment, RF is cinch and sram has 3 bolts if im not mistaken?


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

Didzy2009 said:


> Huh? Dont think eagle chainrings fit raceface cranks they have a different fitment, RF is cinch and sram has 3 bolts if im not mistaken?


you are right...my mistake, thought direct mount was standard...


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I am demoing a Reckoning tomorrow that has eagle. I compared the gear inches to my current Warden & Endorphin. The 29 Wreckoning has 32 X 10-50, while my 650b Knollys have 28 X 11-42. The low end is almost identical, but the top end on the 29er is 22" more, or like adding 5 teeth to the ring. WTH, I only need my current top end occasionally on a road, and then, who cares it's a road. It seems to shift well, and it should, being out of the box this afternoon. I'll see what all the fuss is about tomorrow AM


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Travis Bickle said:


> I am demoing a Reckoning tomorrow that has eagle. I compared the gear inches to my current Warden & Endorphin. The 29 Wreckoning has 32 X 10-50, while my 650b Knollys have 28 X 11-42. The low end is almost identical, but the top end on the 29er is 22" more, or like adding 5 teeth to the ring. WTH, I only need my current top end occasionally on a road, and then, who cares it's a road. It seems to shift well, and it should, being out of the box this afternoon. I'll see what all the fuss is about tomorrow AM


Let us know what you think of the bike (in the Evil forum)


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I demoed the Eagle, and yes it shifted well. So does my XT. Worth the $, only if you need the big range.


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## briantortilla (Jun 18, 2009)

global said:


> Absolute black does not play well with eagle chain. Have Race face next crank with 1x11 sram and absolute black oval. Added new eagle chain and it was noisy as hell. Put Race Face ring on crank and noise is gone. Best shifting ever.


It is odd that you had trouble with your AB ring. Mine is only the tiniest bit nosier than the stock eagle ring and is very smooth.


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## goncallf (Jul 5, 2007)

Didzy2009 said:


> interesting, was it just one the 42t it skipped when shifted up to quick? didn't really think a new cable could be kinked but ill have a look into that next, its still doing it


Did you solve the problem on the 42T?? I'm experiencing the same issue


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

goncallf said:


> Did you solve the problem on the 42T?? I'm experiencing the same issue


Interestingly, no it hasn't done it for absolute ages! then low and behold I put a new cable in last night, and its weirdly started to do it again in the workstand (fast shift up doesn't mesh just on 42t, but drop down into it from 50t and its fine!)

not tested it out yet on the trails so cant be 100% sure yet, but looking likely its back to how it was originally

maybe over time it bedded in? no idea really, literally all I did on it last night was install a new cable, no other messing with any adjustments at all, bar a quick turn on the barrel adjuster after to stop it skipping in 1 cog, and that's it

edit : also its still noisy as hell, tested last night, fresh lube on and for the first 10 miles its very quiet, like a new bike quiet, then once it starts to dry up it simply turns to a dry sounding chain type noise, really noisy (its not the lube, ive tried 3 different lubes all the same!), no idea why at all, but its very noisy now, can only assume its the oval AB ring and chain not meshing well


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

The eagle rear cassette is narrow wide on both the 50 and 42. It is in phase going from the 50 to 42 of 42 to 50. The shift from 36 to 42 is more likely to get out of phase and skip 1 tooth.


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## goncallf (Jul 5, 2007)

Please delete


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## goncallf (Jul 5, 2007)

alexbn921 said:


> The eagle rear cassette is narrow wide on both the 50 and 42. It is in phase going from the 50 to 42 of 42 to 50. The shift from 36 to 42 is more likely to get out of phase and skip 1 tooth.


But I have read a lot of reviews and no one refer this. For me it's a issue because in chain load from 36T to 42T the chain skips and it's 2 steps to break it. I was pretty familiar with the XX1 1x11V, and never had an issue. 1x12V should be a step forward in shifting quality


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## goncallf (Jul 5, 2007)

Didzy2009 said:


> Interestingly, no it hasn't done it for absolute ages! then low and behold I put a new cable in last night, and its weirdly started to do it again in the workstand (fast shift up doesn't mesh just on 42t, but drop down into it from 50t and its fine!)
> 
> not tested it out yet on the trails so cant be 100% sure yet, but looking likely its back to how it was originally
> 
> ...


So you ended to do nothing and everything started to function well after some miles. Now you change the cable and the issues returned?


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

*b-gap tool*

Found this if you want to buy the b-gap adjustment tool:
Germany Buy .de

Canada: Buy .ca

This is a reference number 11.7518.082.000


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

goncallf said:


> But I have read a lot of reviews and no one refer this. For me it's a issue because in chain load from 36T to 42T the chain skips and it's 2 steps to break it. I was pretty familiar with the XX1 1x11V, and never had an issue. 1x12V should be a step forward in shifting quality


90% of the time the shift ramps get the chain on the cassette the correct way. The shaping of the the teeth is to prevent the chain coming off while back pedaling. It works great for this and improves the wear on the cassette at the same time. It is a pain if you are used to shifting under load as the skip under load is hard on things.

1x11 didn't have narrow/wide on the cassette.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

Let's also add, that this narrow/wide profile on the back of eagle cassettes prevents the dreaded backpedalling issues.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

goncallf said:


> So you ended to do nothing and everything started to function well after some miles. Now you change the cable and the issues returned?


in a nutshell yep, ive done nothing else, fresh cable and a turn on the barrel adjuster and that was it

as alexbn921 says, its not all the time, its only on very fast upshifts into 42, if you go up individually slowly it tends to be ok, I have no idea when it stopped doing it before, but I just got on with riding and never ever noticed it, it definitely wasn't there until I replaced the cable though


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

Hi didzy, good to hear that you are solving the problem. I must say that I have grip shift which doesnt limit the up or down shift and have never had a problem on up or down shift when the system is well calibrated. (I love it )
A couple of tips I've read around>
- It is definitely that the system needs to work on a higher precision level and the barrel adjuster is a key component. The full clockwise and 2 counter clockwise turns on installation are key to give you the fine tuning and afterwards, work on the quote video> If shifting from a large cog to smaller cog is slow, turn barrel adjuster clockwise. If shifting from a small cog to a larger cog is slow, turn barrel adjuster counter clockwise.
- Alternative chainrings seems to be louder, since the eagle chain is narrower and the narrow/wide links work better on the eagle wide/narrow chainrings. It is very important to always check that the chain is mounted properly on this narrow/wide relation over the chainring. Since the direct mount was not a solution for cinch, maybe you can go the spider/chainring way? checchainring>https://www.bike24.com/p2203069.html cinch spider>Race Face Cinch Chainring Spider > Components > Drivetrain > Direct Mount Spiders | Jenson USA
Look at this thread and picutures:
http://forums.mtbr.com/evil-bikes/sram-eagle-1x12-crank-following-1017631.html
https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/13664042/
Also on youtube, search "sram eagle" and you will see a couple of videos of guys showing sound and shifting problems. Some related to the derailleur and other seems to be related to calibration.

Cheers!


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

reporting back guys

as for the skipping on the 42t cog, it wasnt entirely noticeable riding 30 miles on saturday, it still did it in the work stand when i got back, but defo not whilst riding, im assuming once sat on the bike, the sag/weight some how helps it mesh into place on the 42, so absolutly no issues there at all now 

also got to the bottom of the grinding/noisy drivetrain.....it is indeed the chainlube.....ive been using dry lubes or clean lubes more specifically, and these seem fine for the first 5-8 miles, then suddenly the noise comes and it sounds awful for the remainder of the ride....lubes that ive used previously and been fine on other drivetrains, but seem crap longevity on eagle for some reason, are squirt lube, purple extreme and rock n roll blue.....all 3 of them make the same awful noise after so many miles (and yes ive done the full degrease etc before)

so I bunged on some muc off team sky hydrodynamic lube that I had a few sampler sachets around before the bigger ride on Saturday, and thought sod it, ill degrease and try this lube in stead.....now this was just a sample so did the chain once and once only.....and by Christ what a difference, shifting was so crisp, clean and noise free at the start.....10 miles in, still no noise.....20 miles in still no noise....got to the end of 31 miles and it still no noise, no grind and shifted like new!!!!! 

amazing the difference and the noise ive put up with months now

yes it was a littler blacker when I got back, but still relatively clean (not thick black gunk!) and I clean stuff all the time anyways so makes no difference to me....


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Problems with mine shifting into the higher gears, hesitating ,not shifting then jumping two gears and so on. thing shifted perfect for a bout a 150 miles then this. Local bike shop says everything looks perfect but admits it shifts like crap and there not sure why.
Been waiting days on a reply from sram...
For such an expensive drive train that's supposed to be cutting edge and superior its not making me happy right now. Hope this can get fixed or i might have to switch back to shimano.....


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

fxr man said:


> Problems with mine shifting into the higher gears, hesitating ,not shifting then jumping two gears and so on. thing shifted perfect for a bout a 150 miles then this. Local bike shop says everything looks perfect but admits it shifts like crap and there not sure why.
> Been waiting days on a reply from sram...
> For such an expensive drive train that's supposed to be cutting edge and superior its not making me happy right now. Hope this can get fixed or i might have to switch back to shimano.....


Change your housing to Shimano sp41 and your cable to Shimano coated. Make sure there are no kinks when running it. This will fix most slow shifting problems.

Also Make sure your hanger is perfectly straight and b screw is at the correct distance when sagged.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Used the shimano housing but the stock cable was retained, all others were checked and verified twice as good.
Going to start over and switch to shimano coated cable as well.

Thanks for the suggestions.


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## bdoss123 (Mar 21, 2017)

fxr man said:


> Problems with mine shifting into the higher gears, hesitating ,not shifting then jumping two gears and so on. thing shifted perfect for a bout a 150 miles then this. Local bike shop says everything looks perfect but admits it shifts like crap and there not sure why.
> Been waiting days on a reply from sram...
> For such an expensive drive train that's supposed to be cutting edge and superior its not making me happy right now. Hope this can get fixed or i might have to switch back to shimano.....


I'm in a similar boat. I have loved the system so far, but after the first 100-150 miles things have gotten a little sloppy. I realized that there was a bunch of dirt and grime - and after cleaning and a few tweaks to the barrel adjuster things are noticeably better. However, I'm still getting the random hesitation or non-shift. I haven't taken it to the shop yet - but was considering doing so. I don't have the b-adjustment tool, so I wasn't sure if I should start playing around with that yet...


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

bdoss123 said:


> I don't have the b-adjustment tool, so I wasn't sure if I should start playing around with that yet...


Hello! I suggest you try to buy the tool and take the risks...Im not a pro mechanic or anything, just someone with good handwork skills and I fully installed and tuned the Eagle system just following the SRAM videos and info. The best way to tune and fully understand and adjust the system is to take the time to understand what you need to do depending on your problem. A few good readings>

My DIY

Using the BGap ADJ tool Thread

Where to buy the tool
Germany Buy .de
Canada: Buy .ca

Reference number 11.7518.082.000


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## bdoss123 (Mar 21, 2017)

Thanks for those links! I also just found a US Source for the Adjustment Tool:
Bikeman SRAM Eagle Rear Derailleur Chain Gap Adjustment Gauge


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Probably not your shifting problem, but my problem was I bashed the little cable pulley and guard at the back end of the RD and it was hindering cable movement. It wasn't obvious and I had to look closely to see it. Fixed that and shifting was good again.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Not sure what the problem is...?
Took it back to the guy that built my bike who was a pro downhill racer, mechanic for a pro team and has had a very successful shop for over 15 years and is a very respected mechanic.
He has checked everything multiple times, the RD hanger is burly and the gauge he used shows it to be very strait, the cable and housing (Shimano ) is smooth and kink free, the shifter seems normal and in good condition, the RD itself looks fine, jockey wheels not bent, RD cage looks good, cassette appears good no bent or broken teeth etc.
First experience with SRAM and I'm not impressed...!! Every Shimano i've ever had just worked and was not this troublesome or finicky. I mean this set up should work way better for the money they charge. They asked for Ser.#'s so makes me wonder if they had a bad batch of certain parts..? The next step will be to replace the shifter and see what happens, then the RD and see what happens until it's figured out or I ask Sram for my money back and try something else. I went from a XTR 3x9 setup to try Sram 1x hoping to see all the benefits everyone was talking about and so far I like the idea but might have to try another 1x combo or go to a 2x setup.
Very frustrated as this was an extremely expensive dream build and i've only put 300 miles on it so far and everything else just works beautifully except this.....


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

fxr man said:


> Not sure what the problem is...?
> Took it back to the guy that built my bike who was a pro downhill racer, mechanic for a pro team and has had a very successful shop for over 15 years and is a very respected mechanic.
> He has checked everything multiple times, the RD hanger is burly and the gauge he used shows it to be very strait, the cable and housing (Shimano ) is smooth and kink free, the shifter seems normal and in good condition, the RD itself looks fine, jockey wheels not bent, RD cage looks good, cassette appears good no bent or broken teeth etc.
> First experience with SRAM and I'm not impressed...!! Every Shimano i've ever had just worked and was not this troublesome or finicky. I mean this set up should work way better for the money they charge. They asked for Ser.#'s so makes me wonder if they had a bad batch of certain parts..? The next step will be to replace the shifter and see what happens, then the RD and see what happens until it's figured out or I ask Sram for my money back and try something else. I went from a XTR 3x9 setup to try Sram 1x hoping to see all the benefits everyone was talking about and so far I like the idea but might have to try another 1x combo or go to a 2x setup.
> Very frustrated as this was an extremely expensive dream build and i've only put 300 miles on it so far and everything else just works beautifully except this.....


I reviewed your earlier posts and I don't see a mention of your specifics. I'm most interested in the chain - what is it?


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## bdoss123 (Mar 21, 2017)

Just got back from LBS... seems my derailleur hanger was slightly bent, he thinks that was the issue and why I couldn't dial it in correctly. Worth checking if you haven't already. 

- BD 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Eagle xx1 cassette and chain with eagle xo1 RD, shifter and cranks.
Going to get another RD hanger but this one has been checked out to be true..


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Taking it back in today for another try at solving this problem......


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

Let me insist on the point of getting to know and understand your eagle.
In my 6 months experience (1000km) with the eagle, it's become clear that as cogs are closer and chain is thinner, the system works on a higher precision level. So any change or wrong setup of the b-screw, limit screws, changes in cable tension or miss adjustment on the shifter barrel, will have an important effect on the system function. But once you correctly set up all the above, it's easy as just twisting the shifter barrel clockwise or anticlockwise to fix any problem.
Yesterday I went for a long ride without checking before leaving home. On the first climb problems started and felt as a huge problem of miss shifting. Turned the bike upside down and made a classic up and down shifting test to identify the problem. Then gave a couple of turns to the shifter barrel and everything started to work smoothly again and for the next 30+ Km. (Took me no longer than 5 minutes)

Check the Sram Eagle installation video, particularly on the part of setting up. It's not NASA stuff and will save you money and time. In my case it's not a stock eagle, I upgraded a 2015 FSR Stumpjumper.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

No it's not rocket science but it is ALOT more finicky then every other system I've used for the last 25 years.
I had it professionally installed by a very good mechanic who was a pro downhiller, a bike race team mechanic and has owned his own shop for 15 years.
Turns out they sent me a BAD shifter....
After installing the new one and going through the set up steps one more time including sitting on the bike to set sag then adjusting the B screw with the adjustment tool and then adjusting the B screw so that the upper pulley wheel was even closer to the large cog then recommended my system now works as it should have from the beginning. 
Not everything is human error as you elude to but is sometimes a faulty mechanical issue that took a little time to diagnose.
Thank you to those that took the time to give advise as sometimes it's frustrating when quality components don't work right and your searching for answers...


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## bdoss123 (Mar 21, 2017)

Glad you got it working!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## ElPablo (Sep 9, 2007)

Please delete


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## ElPablo (Sep 9, 2007)

Did you ever figure it out ? I have the EXACT same problem since the day I bought my Trek Fuel EX 9.9 : the chain rides on top of teeth of two largest sprockets, same skipping on the 42...

I've taken it to 4 different shops and no one can figure it out. My old 2008 Trek Fuel ex 9.0 with 3x Shimano XT still shifts beautifully... This Eagle 1x12 is the worst shifting garbage I have ever ridden.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

My case it was a bad shifter but once that was installed I needed to readjust the b screw.
This time I sat on the bike to give correct sag, instead of letting air out of the shock to create sag. Then used the red gauge supplied with the eagle kit and set the b screw adjustment again. Then while still on the bike my mechanic made a small adjustment on the b screw to close the gap just a little more. At that point the shifting became clean and crisp through all the gears including the four smallest cogs that I had trouble with.
As earlier posters have said follow the directions carefully and if there's not a bad component you should be able to get this corrected..!!


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

fxr man said:


> My case it was a bad shifter but once that was installed I needed to readjust the b screw.
> This time I sat on the bike to give correct sag, instead of letting air out of the shock to create sag. Then used the red gauge supplied with the eagle kit and set the b screw adjustment again. Then while still on the bike my mechanic made a small adjustment on the b screw to close the gap just a little more. At that point the shifting became clean and crisp through all the gears including the four smallest cogs that I had trouble with.
> As earlier posters have said follow the directions carefully and if there's not a bad component you should be able to get this corrected..!!


did you guys figure out what was bad with the shifter? I'm guessing something like inconsistent cable pull.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Not sure, they just said the shifter controls the RD and the mechanism wasn't acurate in the higher part of the gear range. It had trouble shifting up or down or even holding the four smallest cogs. They said it's rare but happens once in a while. Guess i just got lucky.
Once the new shifter was installed it still needed the B screw adjustment to make it all good.


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## crfnick56 (Mar 7, 2012)

I am giving some though to jumping on the eagle bandwagon. I care more about function and reliability than weight savings or the bling factor. That being said, the GX eagle is looking pretty appealing based on the price (and he fact that I have had 1x11 GX on my bike for two years with no issues). Would it be a good idea though to maybe bump up to the XO1 shifter and/or Derailleur or would there not be a noticeable enough change in performance? I think I read somewhere that the XO1 and GX derailleur were basically the same internals but the shifter was the real improvement. I'm trying to stay under the XO1 price point with keeping with the GX cassette and cranks, is this a good idea? Looking for advice/opinions at this point.


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## niels65 (Jun 11, 2015)

pipots said:


> Let me insist on the point of getting to know and understand your eagle.
> In my 6 months experience (1000km) with the eagle, it's become clear that as cogs are closer and chain is thinner, the system works on a higher precision level. So any change or wrong setup of the b-screw, limit screws, changes in cable tension or miss adjustment on the shifter barrel, will have an important effect on the system function. But once you correctly set up all the above, it's easy as just twisting the shifter barrel clockwise or anticlockwise to fix any problem.
> Yesterday I went for a long ride without checking before leaving home. On the first climb problems started and felt as a huge problem of miss shifting. Turned the bike upside down and made a classic up and down shifting test to identify the problem. Then gave a couple of turns to the shifter barrel and everything started to work smoothly again and for the next 30+ Km. (Took me no longer than 5 minutes)
> 
> Check the Sram Eagle installation video, particularly on the part of setting up. It's not NASA stuff and will save you money and time. In my case it's not a stock eagle, I upgraded a 2015 FSR Stumpjumper.


I've been running ~1500 km in 5 months with the XO1 Eagle with no problems what so ever. Set up the drivetrain my self according to the installation instruction video without any hassle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ElPablo (Sep 9, 2007)

Could this have been your problem ? Do shifts into 42/50 klank and feel crunchy ?

SRAM Eagle design flaw ?- Mtbr.com


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

well I reckon ive used the eagle the most amongst most folk I know so thought id report here

ive had it fitted x01 eagle since feb 17...its now aug 17.....im 1028 miles in, and 2 chains

its now started to skip in 50t to the point where I cant stand on the pedals to climb (its not as bad seated but still skips), and its slipping randomly in other gears too but is still useable

pretty annoying in some respects as ive not used the 50t at all, maybe 20 miles worth out of the 1028 (its used as a emergency but I'm pretty fit and used to the climbs round our way)

ive got another new chain to put on along with a new chainring, so ill try my luck first see if it will mesh, as my current chain feels very very loose at the rollers...so ill report back after fitting see if its still slipping/skipping (I fully expect it will)

so 1000 miles seems about max for my type of terrain (gritty, sandy, rocky, lots of climbing elevation circa 200,000 feet in those 1000 miles)

be interesting hear what other folks have got out of theirs too

shifting has remained spot on, I cant fault anything else, other than the sitting on top of 42t/50t cog when first shifting up occasionally, but does'nt happen that often now for me, more so in the stand, not when riding once my weights on the bike


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Are there any alternatives to Sram's Powerlock as a link in the chain? I can't find anyone else making a 12 speed link. I just want something that is easy to get apart. Running Wippermann links on my other bikes and it's night and day compared to this Powerlock garbage..


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Ive got a slight problem on mine in the way that the chain keeps dropping off the bottom pulley on a descent when im in the smallest cogs...its suddenly started to do it, chain goes off and sits between the cage and outside of jockey wheel, basically cant pedal and have to stop really annoying!

Setup wise mine does the thing where it sits on top of the cogs in 42t 50t cogs, but only if i fast upshift, and also only in the stand, once im out ive not experienced it really its like the sag once sat on the bike makes it mesh

I too have the same issue with adjustments, if i turn the barrel to make the down shifts fast or normal, it then clicks and ticks and pulls on the mech only in 42t cog not even 50t! No idea why but as above it seems common

Ive just rpelaced my x01 cassette with a gx cassette and the shifts are better now but still not like new crisp shifting and still ticks, clicks pulls in 42t, ive totally reset everything as if it were new.also a a new chain and chainring

Not ideal and not great but the worst is why its suddenly dropping the chain on the lower jockey wheel any ideas?


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## freak6767 (Aug 31, 2011)

Hi there, quick one for you guys:
My new bike came with a 30t chainring.
In my previous bikes with XX1, I know I could go up or down by 2 teeth without changing the chain. (With 32t installed I could swap for either 28 or 32 without changing my original XX1 chain)

Is this still the same with XX1 EAGLE?
Ideally I would like to go to a 34t, but I guess I will need a new chain.
If I can go to 32t with the same chain, I could try that for now.

Thanks a lot for the info! 😄


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Check out this thread on singletrack world

SRAM eagle problem any one experienced it? « Singletrack Forum

Becoming apparent its starting to show some problems

Mines has done this again 2 times today if id have pedalled a few more strokes i have no doubt it would have ripped the mech to bits

So annoying! Any ideas folks?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Didzy2009 said:


> Check out this thread on singletrack world
> 
> SRAM eagle problem any one experienced it? « Singletrack Forum
> 
> ...


This sounds like a maintenance issue more than anything. Having loose bolts, dirty chains and stuck pulley wheels. Chain length could also play into this along with accidentally hitting the shifter while not pedaling.
I've got 600 miles on mine and it's been flawless. Chain is still good, but I have a spare ready to go on. I also changed out the cable last week as I could tell it was getting gummy.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

I agree i thought it was my jockey wheels as they have side to side play quite a bit

But a guy in the thead on the link above has done it 3 times now on new mechs so its not a maintenance issue when its more or less brand new

Mines only started doin it after 1000 miles...ive replaced the cassette chain and chainring and its still doing it .... so the only old thing that remians is the mech

I have some new jockey wheel on order but if the guys new mechs are doing it it kinda proves its not them anyways


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Not that it's super complicated to setup a drivetrain, but a lot of people don't have a clue. Little things like hanger alignment, kincked cables/housing, chain length and b screw adjustment could all factor into this. Even the cable routing around the pinch bolt will mess things up.
Older shimano jockey wheels were designed to slide side to side. Slide shouldn't hurt, but wobble will.
Some new parts can be bad out of the box. 3 bad ones is a setup problem. That guy is doing something wrong.

Chainsuck sucks! Hope you get it figured out.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Didzy2009 said:


> Check out this thread on singletrack world
> 
> SRAM eagle problem any one experienced it? « Singletrack Forum
> 
> ...


Looking at my gx rd which I haven't installed yet and wondering why the hell this gap is so massive? There's enough space for 2 stacked chains to pass through. I'm going to close that gap when I install everything.

Thinking I'm going to carve a spacer out of a piece of plastic and fasten it with wire and maybe some glue. I figure if that gap is reduced to 2mm away from the chain then it can't derail off the pulley. Also, the wire would prevent the 2 parts of the cage from spreading.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

92gli said:


> Looking at my gx rd which I haven't installed yet and wondering why the hell this gap is so massive? There's enough space for 2 stacked chains to pass through. I'm going to close that gap when I install everything.
> 
> Thinking I'm going to carve a spacer out of a piece of plastic and fasten it with wire and maybe some glue. I figure if that gap is reduced to 2mm away from the chain then it can't derail off the pulley. Also, the wire would prevent the 2 parts of the cage from spreading.


Why, Just Why. I think you're more likely to cause other problems, than solve one you're not going to have. Don't forget the the whole cage rotates forward and needs clearance when you're in the 50.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

alexbn921 said:


> Why, Just Why. I think you're more likely to cause other problems, than solve one you're not going to have. Don't forget the the whole cage rotates forward and needs clearance when you're in the 50.


Why? So the chain doesn't bounce off the pulley and get stuck in the cage.
What the hell does that gap have to do with the cage rotation?


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## NullAndVoid (May 29, 2011)

alexbn921 said:


> Why, Just Why. I think you're more likely to cause other problems, than solve one you're not going to have. Don't forget the the whole cage rotates forward and needs clearance when you're in the 50.


Exactly this, in the 50t that space is needed with the cage rotated forward.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Just locked the cage open, laced a chain through it and held it completely horizontal. The position of the chain doesn't change a bit. So tell me again what additional problem I'll cause.







Cage completely collapsed


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Interesting point there about the gap on the cage, i guess if there was no gap the chain wouldnt be able to bounce off, its certainly hard to see how it would come off side ways so guess that gap must be allowaing the chain to come off there

If it works ok in all gears closing the gap up then ill try that next along with new jockeys

Its so annoying though having to think of ways to stop it on the most advanced expensive newest groupset about...sram always have the best ideas and innovation then always let it down by prdoucts failing after a few months hard use


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

I think it just bounces off the pulley when you're in a smaller cog and going through chop. The clutch handles big movements of the chain but it still bounces on the bottom pulley a bit. 
I suspect sram will be changing those cages eventually. It's clearly an oversight IMO.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

I think your probably right, if it was due to the top pulley then the chain would be off there too, but its not its always the same lower jockey wedged in exactly the same position between inner side of lower and inside of cage

Only other thing im thinking is maybe over rough changing gear up the cassette from smallest with the chain at its loosest is that when you change up and chains rattling it doesnt mesh properly on the narrow wide profile of the lower jockey, so essentially goes out of sync and sits on top rather than in the teeth, and then bam off it goes inside the cage


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

i've been using xo1 eagle since january 2017. i haven't had these issues. granted when im decending, im usually in a higher ger(smaller cog)


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

useport80 said:


> i've been using xo1 eagle since january 2017. i haven't had these issues. granted when im decending, im usually in a higher ger(smaller cog)


doohhh, if you read the thread, it is occurring in the smallest cogs descending, its happening in mine on the smallest cog, when I shift up just one click whilst descending, like the lower jockey cant handle chain moving quickly over rough, combined with the fact its narrow wide profile the lower, I just don't think it meshes properly when its at it loosest

guess the answer is really to not change gear up from smallest cog when descending, hard to do when needed but still Ill see how it goes


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## freak6767 (Aug 31, 2011)

freak6767 said:


> Hi there, quick one for you guys:
> My new bike came with a 30t chainring.
> In my previous bikes with XX1, I know I could go up or down by 2 teeth without changing the chain. (With 32t installed I could swap for either 28 or 32 without changing my original XX1 chain)
> 
> ...


Anyone might have the info?
Thanks!


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

freak6767 said:


> Anyone might have the info?
> Thanks!


All depends on the length of your chain. Pull 2 links onto your front chain ring while your in the 50. Cycle the suspension and see if the chain is to short. If it's not get a bigger ring and adjust your b screw.


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## freak6767 (Aug 31, 2011)

alexbn921 said:


> All depends on the length of your chain. Pull 2 links onto your front chain ring while your in the 50. Cycle the suspension and see if the chain is to short. If it's not get a bigger ring and adjust your b screw.


Thanks for your reply, but as I mentioned in my first post, with regular XX1, SRAM clearly mentions that with the same chain length you could +/- 2th from your original chainring.
So if your chain was installed with a 32th chainring, it means you could swap for a 30th or 34th new chainring without changing the chain again.

I was just wondering if this applies to XX1 eagle too.
I guess I will contact Sram.

Thx!


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

freak6767 said:


> Thanks for your reply, but as I mentioned in my first post, with regular XX1, SRAM clearly mentions that with the same chain length you could +/- 2th from your original chainring.
> So if your chain was installed with a 32th chainring, it means you could swap for a 30th or 34th new chainring without changing the chain again.
> 
> I was just wondering if this applies to XX1 eagle too.
> ...


Lol. It's not magic dude. The answer is frame and chain length dependent. Did you size the chain so you could up size? It's also easy to check. The general answer is yes you can. Can you break something if it's wrong. Yes.
Take the bike to someone that knows how to work on them and you're good to go.


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## freak6767 (Aug 31, 2011)

alexbn921 said:


> Lol. It's not magic dude. The answer is frame and chain length dependent. Did you size the chain so you could up size? It's also easy to check. The general answer is yes you can. Can you break something if it's wrong. Yes.
> Take the bike to someone that knows how to work on them and you're good to go.


Don't wanna be rude (because we are all here to help) but did you actually read my post?
It's not magic? I never said it was, I just quoted what SRAM actually says in the manual regarding XX1 with going +/- 2th without changing the chain again! That was the beauty of the system when it came out.

You replied as if I needed infos on how to change the chain for a new one and how to determine the length.

I'm not a pro mechanic but consider myself well trained enough to maintain my machines as good as new.

So thanks for your reply, but again, this isn't my question.

Regards


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

The answer is Yes. Now did the person that built your bike size your chain correctly? If they didn't you could break something.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Finished my preemptive lower pulley drop-stop mod. Tiny drill bit, filed a hunk of plastic to fit and a piece of 22ga wire. Still about 3mm chain clearance but it won't come off the pulley.


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## Mtbvkk (Sep 13, 2017)

I have the sram 1x11 speed on my bike and am thinking of upgrading to the eagle Gx 12 speed. I've never done such an install on the bike. Can I use my existing shifter cable? It's only a few months old. If I can then it should be a fairly simple install by replacing components.


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## NullAndVoid (May 29, 2011)

Mtbvkk said:


> I have the sram 1x11 speed on my bike and am thinking of upgrading to the eagle Gx 12 speed. I've never done such an install on the bike. Can I use my existing shifter cable? It's only a few months old. If I can then it should be a fairly simple install by replacing components.


I re-use the cable housing with no problems, the eagle shifter comes with a new cable.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

You can reuse both the cable and housing, but I wouldn't. Get new Shimano sp41 housing and use the new cable that comes with the shifter. Now is the best time to swap it out. It will shift better and it will extend your next service. 
Also check the derailleur hanger! DO IT!


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## Mtbvkk (Sep 13, 2017)

Thanks for the info


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

Mtbvkk said:


> I have the sram 1x11 speed on my bike and am thinking of upgrading to the eagle Gx 12 speed. I've never done such an install on the bike. Can I use my existing shifter cable? It's only a few months old. If I can then it should be a fairly simple install by replacing components.


yes you can, but if the new shifter comes with a new one better to change it...if it helps take a look at my DIY here.


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## Mtbvkk (Sep 13, 2017)

pipots said:


> yes you can, but if the new shifter comes with a new one better to change it...if it helps take a look at my DIY here.


Great write up and research. Thanks!


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

2 rides so far with eagle and the shifting has been perfect, very crisp. No problems yet with keeping the chain on the lower pulley. But... the X01 cassette is creaking in harder gears. :madman:

I will try greasing the crap out of the whole cassette-freehub interface and re-torque tomorrow morning.


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## drcbrath (Mar 24, 2008)

I had the shifting problem on my new Eagle GX (less than a month old). NO amount of cleaning and adjusting helped. I took it back to the shop where I bought the bike a month ago. Great shop---The Bike Company, in Lake Forest CA. It turned out to be a bent derailleur hanger. The bend was so slight; without a derailleur hanger gage I never could have known or fixed it. But the mechanic fixed it to perfection---better even than the day I picked up the bike! Reading this long thread, it is clear that many things can go wrong to ruin the shifting. Dirty and/or dry chain, bad cable tension, misaligned limit stops, improper chain gap/B-tension screw, bent derailleur hanger, bad cables. Bad components (shifter, derailleur). Address the problem methodically, preferably in order from low to high price, and it will be solved soon enough.


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## COMTBR (Jul 18, 2016)

Don't forget cable stretch on brand new bikes / installs after a month or so of use. Usually a couple barrel-notch turns will re-adjust properly if you notice shifting gets out of wack. (technical term)


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## COMTBR (Jul 18, 2016)

Has anybody with a non XX1 RD ponied up cash for the XX1 pulleys? Notice any difference?

Same goes for 1x11 as well...


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## scooterman (Aug 10, 2004)

Just had the chain dropping off the lower pulley and jamming today. Drive train probably has 400-500 miles. Had to walk like 3 miles. The amount these pulleys can flex is incredible they need to be a lot harder material. Also the gap in the cage needs to be smaller. Going to call sram and ask them for new parts and a chain.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

scooterman said:


> Just had the chain dropping off the lower pulley and jamming today. Drive train probably has 400-500 miles. Had to walk like 3 miles. The amount these pulleys can flex is incredible they need to be a lot harder material. Also the gap in the cage needs to be smaller. Going to call sram and ask them for new parts and a chain.


Why did your chain come off? Was it muddy or on a rough section of trail. The only time I've had trouble was in rain and mud, but that's to be expected and the chain was complaining loudly for several miles before it started jumping cogs.


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## Dempsey (Sep 18, 2017)

I have ridden mine hard for 8 months maybe 2000 miles. It's now noisy like a previous post. Fine with fresh lube but after about 15 miles it gets noisy. Changes chain and jockey wheels noise is the same. Doing my head in , it just started one day like a switch , same on most rear gears so done think it's the cassette .


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

scooterman said:


> Just had the chain dropping off the lower pulley and jamming today. Drive train probably has 400-500 miles. Had to walk like 3 miles. The amount these pulleys can flex is incredible they need to be a lot harder material. Also the gap in the cage needs to be smaller. Going to call sram and ask them for new parts and a chain.


Check my post on the previous page about my cage mod.

Would love to hear what sram says when you ask them why the hell the cage has that massive gap. Let us know how that conversation goes.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

The space at the bottom of the cage is needed if you ever get chain suck or get a stick stuck in your gears. When you rotate the cage all the way forward the chain occupies that space.
The gap at the bottom doesn't really matter as its not a structural part of the cage. It's only there to prevent the chain from completely coming off.

I found that the stock lube on the chain is way to thick and will gunk up over time giving you all kinds of shifting problems. I strip it off and run dry lube. Lube is area and conditions dependent.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

alexbn921 said:


> When you rotate the cage all the way forward the chain occupies that space.


Do you think that if you say it enough times it will come true? At this point I'm pretty sure that you don't even have an eagle drivetrain. Because if you did, you could go shift your bike to the 50t and see this. And no, they didn't make that big gap for stick clearance. SMH...


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Guess yours drivetrain functions different than mine. I have had a stick get sucked into the gears and tapped my derailleur off the frame. Your mod would have gotten in the way. I've also had the chain pack with mud and again your mod would stared rubbing.
It's almost like sram, shimano, campagnolo and box leave that area open for a reason. Guess you know something that they don't.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Your chain is WAY too short!


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

92gli said:


> Your chain is WAY too short!


LOL. I pulled it up to show that the space gets used. Mine is setup within a link of yours. The execution of your mod is first rate, but I think you are looking for a solution in the wrong area. I also wanted to point out to others that there are drawbacks to it. The chain shouldn't have enough room on the sides to wedge between the pully and the cage unless something is loose or broken. Getting out of step on the lower pull shouldn't happen with a clean drivetrain either. I'm not a fan of the N/W on the pulleys as I don't see what they help. There is room engineered into these parts for when something does go wrong. Looking forward to seeing if this fixes your problem.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Outside of the clutch failing, the cage is never going to be in that position so I don't get why you think it matters. even if it did, my little mod wouldn't cause any issues other than some wear to the soft plastic piece. It's not going to stop the chain from moving.

So how about putting your engineering knowledge to work and tell me why the derailleur or cassette creaks when I pedal out of the saddle? I have a video of the derailleur creaking and popping when you pull outward on the cage. I'll post it when I'm on wifi. There's a lot of slop in the pins.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Cassette creaks at the interface of the lock ring/10 tooth and also where the 50 contacts the hub driver. both can be fixed by cleaning and greasing the **** out of it. I just had to do this on a friends bike last week and on my bike yesterday. Seems to last about 200-300 miles before it starts again.
Derailleur has a couple problem spots. I like to clean and lube the pivots with finish line dry lube but they don't seem to creak on XX1 or XX1 eagle. The clutch can get dirty and make an annoying popping creaking noise, but that was mostly on the first gen stuff. Eagle has been problem free.
The main derailleur creak is the hanger interface under the b screw. There is enough slop in the main mount that it will twist and round the outer edge of the hanger. I had to file both pieces so they matted together. On my XX1 I had file and make a .2mm brass shim take out the slop. Otherwise it would destroy the hanger.
:thumbsup:


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Hmm. We are on the same page buddy! Lol. 

I have so much grease on the freehub it looked like I was icing a cake. Don't think it's that.

After seeing all the slop in the pins on my gx mech, I was having a little regret and thinking I should have got x01. I really didn't anticipate that the gx piece would be so poorly assembled. I've already got an email off to univeral cycles regarding the problem. If sram elects to replace it, I'll probably pay the difference to get x01. (Its also is a shame to see that plain jane derailleur next to the beautiful x01 cassette)

The thing you really got my attention on was the B screw tab. When doing my assembly I noticed that it didn't mesh with my derailleur hanger well at all. I pondered it and just proceeded along. I see exactly what you're saying about filing that interface so they mate more securely. But I'm going to hold off until I hear something back from sram via universal.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Heres 2 videos I took while stopped during my ride yesterday. The mic on my phone picked up the noises much better than I thought. In the 2nd one Im pulling the cage away laterally.


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

Hi, sorry if this question was asked before. Is X01 Eagle cassette compatible with Gx Eagle derailleur? Thanks!


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Not even a question, sram 12 speed is sram 12 speed. X01 or GX, there is NO difference except blingy bits.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

Lol! Roger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

RAKC Ind said:


> Not even a question, sram 12 speed is sram 12 speed. X01 or GX, there is NO difference except blingy bits.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


The cassette is quite different! It's all compatible still but saying it's all the same except bling is doing X01 and XX1 a disservice.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

They all fit the same hub, have 12 cogs and both sram. Anything else is blung because its weight and fancy gold big cog.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## COMTBR (Jul 18, 2016)

So lighter weight is a bling thing now? Good to know!
I’ve been doing it wrong!


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Functionally there is no difference between the cassettes. They all shift great and have about the same lifespan. The X0 and XX1 level cassettes are incredible works of art and are a lot lighter.
So yes the are bling and you pay for it. They are worth the upgrade in my option as they effect the rear unsprung weight.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

I believe I saw in some reviews of the gx that either the shifter or rd or maybe both actually have some updates compared to x01/xx1, does anybody remember seeing something about this?


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

I'm less than enamored with my Eagle 1x12 setup.

Full X01, probably no more than a few hundred miles on it. As already mentioned, touchy touchy B-screw and my bike came without the gauge to adjust, and SRAM doesn't have one on their site to print. Adjusted it as closely to spec as possible without the gauge.

Despite relentless adjustment, occasionally the 42 and 50 cog shifts 'float' the chain on the cog, resulting in a nice 'bang' when they bed to the cog properly. Does this both in the stand and while riding. Works perfectly on all other cogs, WTF. I suppose the cable might be the culprit but its a new bike. 

Chain also drops several cogs the moment a slight backpedal occurs on the three largest cogs. And yes this on a 148 rear end.

I'm a SRAM fan to be sure and I'm by no means a stranger to wrenching (quite the opposite), and I'm happy as a pig in poo to ditch the FD. But the jury is out and this system is off to a rough start for me.

Cue incredible irony - my bottom-of-the-barrel NX 1x11 system on my fat bike is, and has been, absolutely faultless.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

BadgerOne said:


> I'm less than enamored with my Eagle 1x12 setup.
> 
> Full X01, probably no more than a few hundred miles on it. As already mentioned, touchy touchy B-screw and my bike came without the gauge to adjust, and SRAM doesn't have one on their site to print. Adjusted it as closely to spec as possible without the gauge.
> 
> ...


50 and 42 are narrow wide. The bang is them jumping 1 tooth.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Thanks for the clarification. Ugh....that can't be good for longevity. I'll give it some time and plenty of paternalistic attention and see how it fares over the next few hundred.


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## COMTBR (Jul 18, 2016)

Like others have said, check the RD hanger and try to source a B-screw template/stencil.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

the red plastic thing can be purchased at

Bikeman SRAM Eagle Rear Derailleur Chain Gap Adjustment Gauge

or probably a bunch of local shops have these thrown away every week, so you could get one for free! I got shimano bleeding blocks, bolts and a bunch of other stuff for free from my LBS! This should be no different!


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## ElPablo (Sep 9, 2007)

Serious design flaw.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

I have no "bang" or backpedal chain droppage. The shifting really couldn't be better.

But I am reaching peak annoyance with the creaking GX derailleur:madman:


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## niels65 (Jun 11, 2015)

I have retrofitted the Eagle X01 in March and it shifts smooth like silk throughout the range. I’ve currently run 1.800 km rotating chains (just started the third one). I use Jagwire shifter cable, and both inner and outer has been changed recently as a precaution to keep it running smoothly. I’ve noticed that the Eagle chains are durable as nothing I’ve seen before - 800 km and the chain gauge shows virtually no wear, which is most remarkable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mark ss (Sep 15, 2017)

What's the diameter of 34t chainring? gx eagle.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Same diameter as any other 34t ring. That doesnt change regardless of who makes it. Only difference is oval chain rings.

So 145mm give or take a mm.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## mtbikewv (Dec 18, 2005)

Chain jump off pulley and then disaster!!! As you can see in the picture the chain is caught between the pulley and the cage. And with one hard pedal stroke destroyed along with 2 spokes. Hoping for support from Sram. Bike is only a few months old.


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## COMTBR (Jul 18, 2016)

Oh I’d be pissed.


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## mtbikewv (Dec 18, 2005)

It gets better. Needless to say by the time I walk out of the woods I am mad. Throw the bike on the rack and take off. Look in the rear view mirror and NO BIKE! It is dragging behind the car. Left grip and brake lever are gone. All I can do is laugh!!! I guess it could have been worse.


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## HyperSprite (Mar 14, 2014)

mtbikewv said:


> Chain jump off pulley and then disaster!!!


Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

Did you bike come OEM with Eagle and this chian? I'm just curious, I noticed 92gli also has a similar chain Silver (outer plates), black (inner plates).
So far the three chains I've seen are XX1 Gold/gold, XX1 Black/black and X01 Silver/silver.

Just curious how many Eagle chains there are.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Mine is the GX chain.


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## mtbikewv (Dec 18, 2005)

HyperSprite said:


> Sorry to hear about your bad luck.
> 
> Did you bike come OEM with Eagle and this chian? I'm just curious, I noticed 92gli also has a similar chain Silver (outer plates), black (inner plates).
> So far the three chains I've seen are XX1 Gold/gold, XX1 Black/black and X01 Silver/silver.
> ...


I have 2 chains. The OEM is the X01 silver with hollow pins and I have the GX with black and silver. I rotate chains once a month. The bike came set up X01 Eagle.


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## Fisty (Sep 19, 2005)

Has anyone considered a 15t jockey wheel to replace the stock 14t wheel in an effort to bring the chain closer to the stop on the derailleur cage?
https://www.amazon.com/Chooee-Derailleur-Jockey-Pulley-Shimano/dp/B074NZ2TFC/ref=sr_1_1?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1506876460&sr=8-1&keywords=15T%2BMTB%2Bbike%2Bbicycle%2BJockey%2BWheel&th=1&psc=1


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

I just installed a mostly X01 Eagle setup (GX RD) on my Nomad 3. I followed the SRAM YouTube video. I've fiddled with the limit screws a bit since install, but I am noticing that I'm getting a bit of noise in 2nd gear (2nd lowest / 2nd largest cog). It sounds like it's kind of skipping, or trying to shift up a gear (to smaller cog). What's strange is it's completely fine on every other gear.

Any suggestions on what to adjust to get this dialed in 100%? 

I used the red B-tension guide so am pretty sure that's fine. I am not 100% certain on chain length: I followed their procedure of undoing my rear shock bolt (coil shock) and lifting my rear triangle until it was at about a full travel, then leaving 1 inner and 1 outer link of overlap. Normally I don't sag it but do 1" / 2 inner/2 outer links.

I feel like the YouTube video was off a bit. For the High Limit (10t cog), they said to line up the center of the pulley with the right edge of the cog. When I did that, it wanted to jump down from the 50T and 42T cogs. Changing it to be the normal alignment (center jockey under center of cog), it got much better.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Andeh said:


> I just installed a mostly X01 Eagle setup (GX RD) on my Nomad 3. I followed the SRAM YouTube video. I've fiddled with the limit screws a bit since install, but I am noticing that I'm getting a bit of noise in 2nd gear (2nd lowest / 2nd largest cog). It sounds like it's kind of skipping, or trying to shift up a gear (to smaller cog). What's strange is it's completely fine on every other gear.
> 
> Any suggestions on what to adjust to get this dialed in 100%?
> 
> ...


If you've read through this thread, apparently it's normal every few shifts as the chain get out of sync with the tooth profile and grinds across the teeth to reindex itself.

Go back to about page 9 and start- enjoy.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

TwoTone said:


> If you've read through this thread, apparently it's normal every few shifts as the chain get out of sync with the tooth profile and grinds across the teeth to reindex itself.
> 
> Go back to about page 9 and start- enjoy.


What post number is that (roughly)? I must have more posts per page than you, because my response is on page 6 for me.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Andeh said:


> What post number is that (roughly)? I must have more posts per page than you, because my response is on page 6 for me.


Whoops wrong thread. Read through this one http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/sram-eagle-design-flaw-1052658.html


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## schmutzjt (Oct 4, 2017)

Does anyone know what size the set screws are for a GX Eagle derailleur? Both of mine went missing halfway through a ride after the chain blew by my largest cog and decided to jam itself between the cassette and wheel. If you have a perplexed look on your face, imagine what mine looked like on my ride. Anyways, I'm guessing standard M4 but I can't verify as they are both gone. I posted this in PB as well, but there have no responses.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I think these would work
https://www.amazon.com/B-Bolt-Limit-Screw-Eagle-Derailleur/dp/B01J0BQO18
Another option would be this site.
Jockey Wheels, Shimano Derailleur Parts, Derailleur Wheels


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## schmutzjt (Oct 4, 2017)

alexbn921 said:


> I think these would work
> https://www.amazon.com/B-Bolt-Limit-Screw-Eagle-Derailleur/dp/B01J0BQO18
> Another option would be this site.
> Jockey Wheels, Shimano Derailleur Parts, Derailleur Wheels


Thanks for the links. I went ahead and picked up some standard M4 bolts and I'm going to see if they are correct. It would be awesome if this only cost me $0.87 rather than $20.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Did the little plastic piece stay put? It helps keep the bolts from backing out.


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## schmutzjt (Oct 4, 2017)

It didn't that is with the bolts somewhere I'm assuming. I was thinking of using some blue loctite and see if that holds everything, since the plastic piece apparently didn't do it's job to begin with.


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## sb1616ne (Feb 13, 2008)

So what's the verdict? Dose eagle live up to all the hype? 

I have been running xo1 11 for years and it's been great, but my new build(Evil Wreckoning) doesn't play well with a 30T front so I need some more range in the back. 

I am thinking either eagle X01 or XTR with a XT 11-46 cassette like Ritchie Rude, lol

Thoughts?


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

sounds line a bunch of whiney people who never maintain their bikes complaining about a system that has tighter tolerances then what they're used to. I have had 3 bikes with eagle since it came out. 2,000 miles. No issues. I clean my drivetrain after every ride, and check adjustments every few hundred miles. Sounds like you all should be riding single speed.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Streetdoctor said:


> sounds line a bunch of whiney people who never maintain their bikes complaining about a system that has tighter tolerances then what they're used to. I have had 3 bikes with eagle since it came out. 2,000 miles. No issues. I clean my drivetrain after every ride, and check adjustments every few hundred miles. Sounds like you all should be riding single speed.


Ahh one of the I don't have problems so everyone else that does is just _________


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## newking (Nov 6, 2007)

I think it's a great system. I have had mine now for 8 months (XX1) and no issues and no dropped chains. It allowed me to go from 32F with 1 x 11 to 34 Front Oval to 1x12

Is it absolutely necessary? No, I ride Singlespeed too but having the extra range of gears definitely helps when riding steep terrain or when you need an easy gear when your legs are gasses. I have been on 1x for the last 4 years and for where I ride see no need of a 2x system.

There are less expensive options like the GX or X01 Version or even the E13 12 speed 9-46. I'm a SRAM grip shift guy so I could not be happier....



sb1616ne said:


> So what's the verdict? Dose eagle live up to all the hype?
> 
> I have been running xo1 11 for years and it's been great, but my new build(Evil Wreckoning) doesn't play well with a 30T front so I need some more range in the back.
> 
> ...


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## ethierjung (May 30, 2017)

I have had my Eagle X01 for just over a year as I was one of the first aftermarket purchases. I have found that the only time I have any issues is when the hanger is bent (no matter how slightly) or the cage is bent. I have have a $250 paperweight that was my first Eagle derailleur thanks to a bad line choice. The slightest misallignment results in hunting at either end of the cassette range.
Current components have about 5K miles on them.
Bent Cage


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## ElPablo (Sep 9, 2007)

Streetdoctor said:


> sounds line a bunch of whiney people who never maintain their bikes complaining about a system that has tighter tolerances then what they're used to. I have had 3 bikes with eagle since it came out. 2,000 miles. No issues. I clean my drivetrain after every ride, and check adjustments every few hundred miles. Sounds like you all should be riding single speed.


Sounds like a pretentious answer that contributes little to this thread. If all you have to offer is telling people they're whiny and how much better you do things, then maybe you should think twice before posting.


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## COMTBR (Jul 18, 2016)

More Eagle bliss here. I’ve been doing some good riding on my XC bike (Epic HT) and the Eagle has ran flawless. Perfect, fast, crisp shifts. Very happy with it. Seems to just get smoother and smoother with every ride.


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## M0vingM0untains (Oct 18, 2016)

Having a tough time aligning the center of the upper guide pulley with the center of the largest cog using low limit screw. Tips?


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## COMTBR (Jul 18, 2016)

^^ You need more cable tension. Undo the cable clamp screw, turn the shifter barrel adjuster back to it’s proper, pre adj point, pull harder on the cable. And tighten the clamp down. You want it pulled tight enough, JUST before it starts to activate the derailleur. 
Mine did the same thing my first install, as I had too much slack in the cable.


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## M0vingM0untains (Oct 18, 2016)

COMTBR. Rockstar. Thanks dude. #shredeverythingtwice


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## rodvw (Nov 19, 2017)

Dear guys,

i've been reading you for a long time solving many little issues and has been so helfull but how i have one that some local workshops and i can't, i'm from Chile.

I have an eagle x01 on a nomad 3 and any considerable hit or jump is moving the derailleur (4 month of use, noise developed 1 ago) and the chain ends hitting the chainwheel

Here is my video, i was using 3rd or 2nd gear, the ones that are used when you go down but it happens with the 4th.






How can be the x01 eur tightened or something like this?

Thanks!


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Can you take a link out? Having the shortest chain, while still allowing for suspension growth will give you the most chain control. Other than that, no you cant tighten an eagle clutch. You can use 3m tape/velcro to protect the frame and dampen the contact.


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## rodvw (Nov 19, 2017)

thanks for reply alex and confirming this about the eagle clutch (i came from a xtr derailleur).

Yes, actually i took 2 links out from the chain to record the video, the noise is a bit lower than before but persist.
When it was new, it was completely noiseless, so that's the reason i started to worry about.

i have the frame covered with 3m, i think is just the chainwheel receiving kind of "chain whips"

I will try to take adittional link if its possible (i know i have to measure it before).


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## magnil (Apr 28, 2013)

Have to order my Eagle setup today to get Black Friday prices and have some thoughts. First I was thinking of going all X01 but not sure anymore.

-Chain. Any real difference between X01 and GX? Do they last equally long?
-Cassette. Know that GX is a 100 g heavier but thinking going for it anyway because of price.Need two cassettes so it is quite a difference.

Appreciate any help!

Edit: Will be for a Hightower LT


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

Hello magnil...if there is a budget restrain go full GX...100g are not that much and having installed GX and XX1 on different bikes, have to say that differences are minimal...I haven't tested crossed series, but SRAM claims there is full compatibility.
I'm almost sure that on the chains the only difference is coatings.

worldwidecyclery has extra 15% on anything and if I may add an additional suggestion, I installed eagle gripshift on my bike and after getting used to it I think I'll never go back to shifter.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

M0vingM0untains said:


> Having a tough time aligning the center of the upper guide pulley with the center of the largest cog using low limit screw. Tips?


your rd needs to go a bit further than the biggest cog actually, it needs to overshoot a bit, otherwise you will never be able to shift up to the biggest cog.

also reading this thread and the other complain threads i'm not that surprised that the latest and greatest 12sp crapola sucks ass... go figure. Didnt I tell you this several months ago??
I think I did. guineapigging much?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Anybody have any idea why the chain delays upshift (larger to smaller cog) from 6th to 7th gear? All other shifts are perfect in both directions. 

I've replaced cable and housing. Chain has 300+ miles, but only maybe 1/64 stretch. Everything has been cleaned and lubed, checked for play. B-limit and chain length are set by the book, and with the tool. Hanger alignment has been checked and its square to the wheel. 

I'm thinking maybe a tooth has been pulled over from a hard shift under more load than I should have used, but I've not found any obvious snaggleteeth. Running out of ideas before getting sram involved.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

car bone said:


> also reading this thread and the other complain threads i'm not that surprised that the latest and greatest 12sp crapola sucks ass... go figure. Didnt I tell you this several months ago??
> I think I did. guineapigging much?


Or everyone bitching and moaning in this thread are not qualified to work on a bike. 3 Eagle drivetrains, thousands of miles, zero issues other then smacking the cage on rocks (that damn eagle!) and bending hangers a couple times. One guy can't even load his bike on a bike rack properly but he's complaining about how bad eagle is LOL. You're taking the **** you read on the internet too seriously. I know a LOT of people running eagle, the only problem I've heard is from people smacking the cage on rocks because it hangs lower. I haven't measured but it's maybe 1/2" longer then the 11 speed derailleurs? Meeeh. It's easier to blame SRAM then your own lack of knowledge though, I get it.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Streetdoctor said:


> Or everyone bitching and moaning in this thread are not qualified to work on a bike. 3 Eagle drivetrains, thousands of miles, zero issues other then smacking the cage on rocks (that damn eagle!) and bending hangers a couple times. One guy can't even load his bike on a bike rack properly but he's complaining about how bad eagle is LOL. You're taking the **** you read on the internet too seriously. I know a LOT of people running eagle, the only problem I've heard is from people smacking the cage on rocks because it hangs lower. I haven't measured but it's maybe 1/2" longer then the 11 speed derailleurs? Meeeh. It's easier to blame SRAM then your own lack of knowledge though, I get it.


Yeah I'm so fukn unqualified to man. I'm like wtf, does this thing turn left or right?? wtf is up with that? is it down or diagonal maybe? maybe its best to weld it?

I'm not saying its all ****. but doesnt seem to be really that durable/realiable to me at least. I guess I did the right thing to stay on 8sp.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

car bone said:


> Yeah I'm so fukn unqualified to man. I'm like wtf, does this thing turn left or right?? wtf is up with that? is it down or diagonal maybe? maybe its best to weld it?
> 
> I'm not saying its all ****. but doesnt seem to be really that durable/realiable to me at least. I guess I did the right thing to stay on 8sp.


Whatever works for you! 1, 7,8,9,12 speeds it's all good in my book! I'm over here LOL'ing at the people that come to the internet to complain about it though without any self reflection. The "eagle is defective" thread is my favorite.


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## mBarria (Nov 30, 2017)

Hi guys,

I have the group X01 eagle with about 1600 km and I have a problem, with the 12t and 10t (only when I apply a lot of force on the pedal) the chain is mounted or jumps (I'm not sure) losing the force applied to the pedal .. Apparently there is no greater wear on the cassette, change the chain but nothing has worked, an important fact is that there is a sound just before the problem. I'm a little crazy with this , I appreciate any help.


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## kave (Jan 7, 2013)

I am coming from a hardtail (self assembled chiner) 29" with XX1. I now have a new MY2018 Trek Top Fuel with Eagle GX and I don't think the gearshifts are close. The feeling of the lever leaving the 50 cog is not good at all.
Anyone with experience from different Eagle groups?


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## NullAndVoid (May 29, 2011)

kave said:


> I am coming from a hardtail (self assembled chiner) 29" with XX1. I now have a new MY2018 Trek Top Fuel with Eagle GX and I don't think the gearshifts are close. The feeling of the lever leaving the 50 cog is not good at all.
> Anyone with experience from different Eagle groups?


I'm running xx1 Eagle and all gear changes feels crisp and precise, but it did require some cable adjustment overtime to keep that precision as the cable stretched the first month. Since then 6 months it's been flawless.


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## TrialsCartel (May 5, 2016)

mtbikewv said:


> Chain jump off pulley and then disaster!!! As you can see in the picture the chain is caught between the pulley and the cage. And with one hard pedal stroke destroyed along with 2 spokes. Hoping for support from Sram. Bike is only a few months old.


Same here. Chain goes off top pulley, I pedal not knowing and inner cage breaks where there`s a small threaded head. I`ve damaged 2 Eagle GX (mine and my son`s :O)....Both off to warranty including one of my team mate`s and another client (4 total)

Meanwhile, and here is the real deal, I installed my Yeti`s X1 11 speed derailleur and it works perfectly shifting to all 12 gears including the 50t...Anyone tried this? I`ve never damaged inner cages like these 12speed Eagles so if this is the solution I rather have shorter, lighter, and less expensive 11 speed derailleurs...


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

TrialsCartel said:


> I installed my Yeti`s X1 11 speed derailleur and it works perfectly shifting to all 12 gears including the 50t...Anyone tried this? I`ve never damaged inner cages like these 12speed Eagles so if this is the solution I rather have shorter, lighter, and less expensive 11 speed derailleurs...


Wouldn't be surprised one bit if the 11spd RDs worked well. Everyone thinks eagle is some kind of clean sheet engineering miracle. The reality is that they start every new drivetrain with modifications to the parts of the last one.

How did you set the B gap? Does the plastic tool work with the 11spd RD?


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

kave said:


> I am coming from a hardtail (self assembled chiner) 29" with XX1. I now have a new MY2018 Trek Top Fuel with Eagle GX and I don't think the gearshifts are close. The feeling of the lever leaving the 50 cog is not good at all.
> Anyone with experience from different Eagle groups?


I have two bikes with GX and one with X01 and to me the GX shifters feel very close, but definitely different, than the X01 shifter. I doubt I'd notice if I didn't have the ability to compare one directly to the other. I'm almost positive the GX group with an X01 shifter would feel identical to the full X01 group. I don't really prefer one feel to the other and, in fact, my Lynskey hardtail with GX seems to shift very slightly more accurately than my SC TBLTc with X01.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

My XO1 Eagle now has 300 miles on it. Works great. Silent. The gear range is great with a 32 but I think I may try a 34 as I just don't use/need that 32/50 ratio where I ride very often. The only issue I have is the chain getting out of sync on the 42/50 cogs from time to time when I shift up to them while climbing and the subsequent noise that comes when it does sync up (clunk). The other thread about this issue is not full of crazy people (some have a different issue that is set up related) - this is really happening and Sram is aware. My LBS called and we chatted with them, they acknowledge that this can happen. I am qualified to work on by bike and know how to set it up - everything is to spec. I would still highly recommend Eagle and am very happy with it. It's quite possible some changes will get made (they already removed the narrow/wide upper jockey pulley on the derailleur due to some issues) so I see this as the first generation that one would expect a few issues. Shimano is no different and has released groups/components that had small issues in the past.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

TrialsCartel said:


> Same here. Chain goes off top pulley, I pedal not knowing and inner cage breaks where there`s a small threaded head. I`ve damaged 2 Eagle GX (mine and my son`s :O)....Both off to warranty including one of my team mate`s and another client (4 total)
> 
> Meanwhile, and here is the real deal, I installed my Yeti`s X1 11 speed derailleur and it works perfectly shifting to all 12 gears including the 50t...Anyone tried this? I`ve never damaged inner cages like these 12speed Eagles so if this is the solution I rather have shorter, lighter, and less expensive 11 speed derailleurs...


Is this due to the issue that the upper jockey wheel has a narrow/wide profile that they have since dropped (only the lower one has it now)?


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## TrialsCartel (May 5, 2016)

Bgap works with 11speed RD



> Is this due to the issue that the upper jockey wheel has a narrow/wide profile that they have since dropped (only the lower one has it now)?


Not sure on this. One of my other friends bike was having the same symptoms which come mainly when descending on rough terrain the chain drops from both the lower and upper pulleys, then if one starts to pedal the jammed chain thats when the inner cage snaps....


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I actually snapped my XX1 cranks (non Eagle) last night on a tough climb. Thankfully it didn't happen on a 4' drop which I had been doing about 30 minutes earlier. Weird right?

The rest of my drivetrain has been upgraded to Eagle so I went to order the 'best ' cranks I could find thinking that would be the XX1 Eagle, but as I read the SRAM description of the XX1 I noticed they only described it as a XC/ Trail crank but when I read the description of the X01 it says it's suitable for Enduro riding which is what I do, strictly.

I am a weight weenie, the cost isn't a concern, but breaking an ankle, having a ride ruined, and having to walk out is a real concern.

I'd prefer to stick to SRAM just because I have oval rotors that already fit them that I would like to keep using. This is not a hard requirement though.

What should I be buying guys?

Thanks.









Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Doesn't look like you were you using crank boots. Probably had some fractures in the end of the arm.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I've never used crank booties. So no.

EDITED: I think you are right. I just went and examined the cranks and the very tip was very lightly worn through. I honestly thought crank booties were for aesthetics but I see now that I need them moving forward.

No biggie, it was sort of the last part on my 'new' build that was left over from my old bike and that I had not upgraded.

Just want to know what the absolute best product to buy is?

I noticed just now on ebay that some of the X01s are pictured with the crank booties, whereas the XX1s are not? Is this and some foam sprayed inside what makes the X01 better suited for Enduro riding and adds the 35 grams?

Please advise.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> I've never used crank booties. So no.
> 
> EDITED: I think you are right. I just went and examined the cranks and the very tip was very lightly worn through. I honestly thought crank booties were for aesthetics but I see now that I need them moving forward.
> 
> ...


the foam is the difference, both can have the rubber booties, if you want sram you can also look into the carbon descendant, I believe it's a little stronger than x01, a little heavier and much cheaper than x01 eagle


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

So the foam alone makes the X01 stronger? The CF is the same? And Sram charges more money for the XX1 for them not to add foam?

Don't care about cost, want the best. Basically the lightest that will live a long life. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> So the foam alone makes the X01 stronger? The CF is the same? And Sram charges more money for the XX1 for them not to add foam?
> 
> Don't care about cost, want the best. Basically the lightest that will live a long life.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


Have you looked at Cannondale SISL2


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## TrialsCartel (May 5, 2016)

TiGeo said:


> My XO1 Eagle now has 300 miles on it. Works great. Silent. The gear range is great with a 32 but I think I may try a 34 as I just don't use/need that 32/50 ratio where I ride very often. The only issue I have is the chain getting out of sync on the 42/50 cogs from time to time when I shift up to them while climbing and the subsequent noise that comes when it does sync up (clunk). The other thread about this issue is not full of crazy people (some have a different issue that is set up related) - this is really happening and Sram is aware. My LBS called and we chatted with them, they acknowledge that this can happen. I am qualified to work on by bike and know how to set it up - everything is to spec. I would still highly recommend Eagle and am very happy with it. It's quite possible some changes will get made (they already removed the narrow/wide upper jockey pulley on the derailleur due to some issues) so I see this as the first generation that one would expect a few issues. Shimano is no different and has released groups/components that had small issues in the past.


From what we have seen with the mechanics here is that GX derailleurs are much more loose in their spring rates making them move/jump a lot more when descending hence producing the inner cage damage.


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## mtbikewv (Dec 18, 2005)

TrialsCartel said:


> Same here. Chain goes off top pulley, I pedal not knowing and inner cage breaks where there`s a small threaded head. I`ve damaged 2 Eagle GX (mine and my son`s :O)....Both off to warranty including one of my team mate`s and another client (4 total)
> 
> Meanwhile, and here is the real deal, I installed my Yeti`s X1 11 speed derailleur and it works perfectly shifting to all 12 gears including the 50t...Anyone tried this? I`ve never damaged inner cages like these 12speed Eagles so if this is the solution I rather have shorter, lighter, and less expensive 11 speed derailleurs...


In an attempt to keep the chain from jumping off the bottom pulley and getting caught between the pulley and the cage. I closed up the gap behind the chain and the cage. The theory being it would be easier to keep the chain on the pulley and thus prevent the jam of happening and destroy everything. So far so good. I did this 2 months ago and I have not had anymore issues. Even with the derailleur fully extended the plastic piece does not interfere with the chain. I figured I better try something to prevent the issue before it happens again - very expensive repair. You can't keep doing the same thing and expect better results.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

mtbikewv said:


> In an attempt to keep the chain from jumping off the bottom pulley and getting caught between the pulley and the cage. I closed up the gap behind the chain and the cage. The theory being it would be easier to keep the chain on the pulley and thus prevent the jam of happening and destroy everything. So far so good. I did this 2 months ago and I have not had anymore issues. Even with the derailleur fully extended the plastic piece does not interfere with the chain. I figured I better try something to prevent the issue before it happens again - very expensive repair. You can't keep doing the same thing and expect better results.


While I'll admit I prefer Shimano stuff, when I see bandaids like this and then read comments about how Shimano is behind- just have to laugh. At least if/when Shimano comes out with a 12sp, I doubt you'll have to do stupid **** for it to work properly.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

The cage insert is trademarked the "92gli mod". Please edit the above post with an acknowledgement 

I like your little bolt better than my wire. I didn't have anything that small on hand


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

92gli said:


> The cage insert is trademarked the "92gli mod". Please edit the above post with an acknowledgement
> 
> I like your little bolt better than my wire. I didn't have anything that small on hand


Get a patent on it, so when Sram finally decide to fix the stuff you can charge them for everyone.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> While I'll admit I prefer Shimano stuff, when I see bandaids like this and then read comments about how Shimano is behind- just have to laugh. At least if/when Shimano comes out with a 12sp, I doubt you'll have to do stupid **** for it to work properly.


Yes, Shimano waits until Sram takes risks to innovate and then jumps in late in the game after the issues are sorted out. I like Shimano stuff too, but they are always behind and there is something to be said about being an innovator even if there are small issues. Sram will sort this stuff out with the next gen of Eagle I am sure. It's like the 1x road stuff, Sram has been on it for CX and gravel...Shimano? Crickets. Guess folks will see it at some point...


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> Yes, Shimano waits until Sram takes risks to innovate and then jumps in late in the game after the issues are sorted out. I like Shimano stuff too, but they are always behind and there is something to be said about being an innovator even if there are small issues. Sram will sort this stuff out with the next gen of Eagle I am sure. It's like the 1x road stuff, Sram has been on it for CX and gravel...Shimano? Crickets. Guess folks will see it at some point...


Destroying your RD because of a design flaw is a small issue? I guess we have different standards.

I see it differently and don't like paying a lot of money to be someone's beta tester.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I like Shimano quality better. Their attention to detail and craftsmanship is the standard that everyone is judged against.
That said there is no design problem with high end Sram derailleurs. In fact the straight parallelogram is a better design along with the cable pivot. Shimano has the same gap on the cage and the shifting arm tends to eat cables.

The modified derailleurs you see here represent .00001% of the population. Not even close to a systemic problem.

The narrow wide jockey wheels are a complete waste IMO. The NW 42 and 50 are needed for chain retention, but cause other problems with sync. The cassette is a work of art. It's 2 or 3 generations ahead of Shimano XTR design. Shift quality is indistinguishable, which is saying something.

If you want 12 speed it's the only game in town and it works amazingly well. I really hope Shimano comes out with 12 speed that is close to the weight of Sram. Sram will have wireless electronic shifting by then though.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^agreed.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I just wanted to update regarding my broken xx1 cranks that were not Eagle and some years old. And most likely broke from multiple Rock impacts, surprised it took so long. 
Anyways I've ordered a new Eagle x01 crankset. After speaking with Sram they've made it pretty clear that even if money was not an issue, for Enduro Style riding I should run the xo1 not the xx1 for strength reasons. Thanks for y'all's help.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## phalkon30 (Jan 17, 2009)

GuitsBoy said:


> Anybody have any idea why the chain delays upshift (larger to smaller cog) from 6th to 7th gear? All other shifts are perfect in both directions.
> 
> I've replaced cable and housing. Chain has 300+ miles, but only maybe 1/64 stretch. Everything has been cleaned and lubed, checked for play. B-limit and chain length are set by the book, and with the tool. Hanger alignment has been checked and its square to the wheel.
> 
> I'm thinking maybe a tooth has been pulled over from a hard shift under more load than I should have used, but I've not found any obvious snaggleteeth. Running out of ideas before getting sram involved.


I had a weird issue in the middle range too on my brand new 2018 stache with eagle gx. They straightened the hanger first, it came back in about a mile. That race I blew out several teeth (snapped a bit of the ring out of the cassette) from the bike hop shifting under power. They replaced my cassette, chain, cables, and housing under warranty (like 100 miles on the bike)

Long story short I think the cassette had bent teeth, but it's hard to prove when I blew it all up. I do know since replacing everything it's been absolutely flawless and required no further adjustment for the last few hundred miles. My trek dealer worked with sram and replaced it all no questions asked when they saw how it failed

(might have posted it here, but this is what my missing teeth looked like)


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

phalkon30 said:


> I had a weird issue in the middle range too on my brand new 2018 stache with eagle gx. They straightened the hanger first, it came back in about a mile. That race I blew out several teeth (snapped a bit of the ring out of the cassette) from the bike hop shifting under power. They replaced my cassette, chain, cables, and housing under warranty (like 100 miles on the bike)
> 
> Long story short I think the cassette had bent teeth, but it's hard to prove when I blew it all up. I do know since replacing everything it's been absolutely flawless and required no further adjustment for the last few hundred miles. My trek dealer worked with sram and replaced it all no questions asked when they saw how it failed
> 
> (might have posted it here, but this is what my missing teeth looked like)


Thanks for the input. The bike is currently collecting dust due to a sheared pivot bolt. I was able to straighten the derailleur hanger a little bit more. It may have been off by 1/8 inch measured against the rim, which is likely negligible and not my real issue. I wont know until I get the replacement pivot bolt in, and the snow cover subsides (fatbike only lately).


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

TwoTone said:


> Destroying your RD because of a design flaw is a small issue? I guess we have different standards.


A 1/16th hole is "destroying"? Dramatic much?

Might as well not even mountain bike at all, because worse "damage" happens to my bike every time I ride.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

92gli said:


> A 1/16th hole is "destroying"? Dramatic much?
> 
> Might as well not even mountain bike at all, because worse "damage" happens to my bike every time I ride.


Why are you putting that small little hole in the RD cage? Oh that's right to prevent \/



mtbikewv said:


> Chain jump off pulley and then disaster!!! As you can see in the picture the chain is caught between the pulley and the cage. And with one hard pedal stroke destroyed along with 2 spokes. Hoping for support from Sram. Bike is only a few months old.





TrialsCartel said:


> Same here. Chain goes off top pulley, I pedal not knowing and inner cage breaks where there`s a small threaded head. I`ve damaged 2 Eagle GX (mine and my son`s :O)....Both off to warranty including one of my team mate`s and another client (4 total)
> 
> Meanwhile, and here is the real deal, I installed my Yeti`s X1 11 speed derailleur and it works perfectly shifting to all 12 gears including the 50t...Anyone tried this? I`ve never damaged inner cages like these 12speed Eagles so if this is the solution I rather have shorter, lighter, and less expensive 11 speed derailleurs...


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## mtbikewv (Dec 18, 2005)

92gli said:


> The cage insert is trademarked the "92gli mod". Please edit the above post with an acknowledgement
> 
> I like your little bolt better than my wire. I didn't have anything that small on hand


Sorry about that! I was just sharing for all to use. As you know these drive trains are expensive. Great idea.


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## toodles (Oct 14, 2004)

10th ride yesterday on brand new GX Eagle specced bike. Somehow the bottom pulley flexed and allowed the chain to get jammed in the mech next to the pulley. I was standing and pedalling at the time and the derailleur got pulled tight, twisted and destroyed itself. Hoping SRAM helps out with some warranty, but being Xmas time I've had to drop $180AUD on a new mech to get the bike going again so I can ride.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

toodles said:


> 10th ride yesterday on brand new GX Eagle specced bike. Somehow the bottom pulley flexed and allowed the chain to get jammed in the mech next to the pulley. I was standing and pedalling at the time and the derailleur got pulled tight, twisted and destroyed itself. Hoping SRAM helps out with some warranty, but being Xmas time I've had to drop $180AUD on a new mech to get the bike going again so I can ride.


According to what I read in this thread, it's not a design flaw. Working as intended.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

toodles said:


> 10th ride yesterday on brand new GX Eagle specced bike. Somehow the bottom pulley flexed and allowed the chain to get jammed in the mech next to the pulley. I was standing and pedalling at the time and the derailleur got pulled tight, twisted and destroyed itself. Hoping SRAM helps out with some warranty, but being Xmas time I've had to drop $180AUD on a new mech to get the bike going again so I can ride.


Were you in the 50? Have you cleaned your chain since new. Are you sure your chain is long enough? It takes a lot to derail the chain off the rear and the cause is usually something else.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^This happened a buddy on a ride a few weeks ago but it appeared to be related to getting some long grass/weeds stuck in there. I look at it this way, lots of people including pros on Eagle and this only happens a small percentage of the time - why? I agree that it is a problem, but it could be related to set up or something else is all I am saying.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

To me it sounds like the chain was too short. On hardtails you're supposed to add four links when you size the chain; on full squish bikes you're supposed to add two links when the suspension is fully extended (longest distance between BB and rear axle).


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

The Eagle requires a high-level of attention to detail when setting it up from the chain length to the B adjustment.


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## toodles (Oct 14, 2004)

alexbn921 said:


> Were you in the 50? Have you cleaned your chain since new. Are you sure your chain is long enough? It takes a lot to derail the chain off the rear and the cause is usually something else.


Middle of the cluster, cleaned and lubed before ride. Chain should be correct as its the stock setup from Kona.


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## toodles (Oct 14, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> The Eagle requires a high-level of attention to detail when setting it up from the chain length to the B adjustment.


It was set up with the red template thingy. The shop owner was very specific about it, and told me a lot could go wrong if I stuffed around with the B tension.

He's sent my old mech off to SRAM Australia for warranty assessment. The oversize jockey wheels are flexy as hell though on the GX Eagle. I know that "shouldn't" be an issue but after seeing my chain get jammed I'm thinking it might be.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

toodles said:


> It was set up with the red template thingy. The shop owner was very specific about it, and told me a lot could go wrong if I stuffed around with the B tension.
> 
> He's sent my old mech off to SRAM Australia for warranty assessment. The oversize jockey wheels are flexy as hell though on the GX Eagle. I know that "shouldn't" be an issue but after seeing my chain get jammed I'm thinking it might be.


Well, you could always replace the OEM pulley wheels with these!


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## toodles (Oct 14, 2004)

Schwa72 said:


> Well, you could always replace the OEM pulley wheels with these!


Am I reading those prices correctly? That is legit? 569 EURO for the top of the line jockey wheels?

OMFG.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

So is this more common on the GX level vs. the XO or XX1?

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## TrialsCartel (May 5, 2016)

TiGeo said:


> So is this more common on the GX level vs. the XO or XX1?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Apparently yes . GX materials and springs are a lot more flimsy making it flex alot more which is the cause for jammed chain-snapped inner cage


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

TrialsCartel said:


> Apparently yes . GX materials and springs are a lot more flimsy making it flex alot more which is the cause for jammed chain-snapped inner cage


Phooey.

From what I've seen here, the suspected culprit is flex in the pulley wheels. And aside from the bearings (XX1 has ceramic vs. X01/GX which have steel), the pulley wheels are the same. In fact, the GX and X01 pulleys ARE the same.

The X01 cage is forged aluminum vs the GX die-cast aluminum cage, but forging doesn't increase material stiffness, so that wouldn't affect the "flexiness" of the cage. Even if the cages were made of different aluminum alloys, GX materials aren't "a lot more flimsy." In fact, SRAM's philosophy with GX is to retain the performance qualities of the X01/XX1 offerings at a slight weight penalty. The GX and X01 derailleurs are actually practically identical.

If the problem is more common with GX, it's probably because there are more GX derailleurs out there.


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

I had the chain fall off the lower pulley of my GX derailleur today, and get stuck between the pulley and the cage. By stopping pedalling at the very first sign/sound of something wrong, sounds like I narrowly avoided becoming another victim. Perhaps only a matter of time though?

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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

I had the same issue last month on an X01 derailleur. Chained wedged between lower pulley and outer cage. Actually broke jockey in half. This must be a defect. Had been installed by top notch mechanic. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

bogeydog said:


> I had the same issue last month on an X01 derailleur. Chained wedged between lower pulley and outer cage. Actually broke jockey in half. This must be a defect. Had been installed by top notch mechanic.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Working as designed. No flaw here, this is stepping up the game and leaving Shimano in the dust.


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## TrialsCartel (May 5, 2016)

Schwa72 said:


> Phooey.
> 
> From what I've seen here, the suspected culprit is flex in the pulley wheels. And aside from the bearings (XX1 has ceramic vs. X01/GX which have steel), the pulley wheels are the same. In fact, the GX and X01 pulleys ARE the same.
> 
> ...


Our guess is not on the cage`s material, but the body itself (spring, assembly) making it more moveable/flexible during harsh vibrations (on the trail) having the chain misalign and dismount off pulleys.....There are also a lot more GX now a days amplifying the issue for sure!


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

TrialsCartel said:


> Our guess is not on the cage`s material, but the body itself (spring, assembly) making it more moveable/flexible during harsh vibrations (on the trail) having the chain misalign and dismount off pulleys.....There are also a lot more GX now a days amplifying the issue for sure!


Maybe, but that would really surprise me. The springs are different materials between X01 and GX (Ti vs steel), but steel isn't weaker/less "springy," just heavier.

Anyway, this shouldn't be happening, although there seem to be some pretty effective (albeit slightly kludgy) solutions posted on this thread that will prevent the problem from occurring...at least until SRAM redesigns the RD cage so the chain simply doesn't have enough room to jump off the pulley.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Schwa72 said:


> Maybe, but that would really surprise me. The springs are different materials between X01 and GX (Ti vs steel), but steel isn't weaker/less "springy," just heavier.
> 
> Anyway, this shouldn't be happening, although there seem to be some pretty effective (albeit slightly kludgy) solutions posted on this thread that will prevent the problem from occurring...at least until SRAM redesigns the RD cage so the chain simply doesn't have enough room to jump off the pulley.


Sram will never design a cage that doesn't have this room. In fact no manufacturer will. Take a look at all derailleurs, they all have this space for when the cage is pulled all the way tight.

The narrow wide pulleys are a waste and will hopefully go away. I have a feeling that this jamming problem is a factor of bikes with a lot of chain growth coupled with loose tolerances on the various pivots of the derailleur. THe GX level stuff seems to have more slop in it than the X0 and XX1. For the chain to jump completely off the pulley and then get pulled sideways should require something to be broken or bent. Under normal pedaling there is no load on this part of the drivetrain.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

Just installed this last night, I haven't seen many other eagle setups, is the chain too short? I can swing the der up and get slack in the chain when it's on the 50t, but it just doesn't look good.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Too short. when your suspension grows it will break something.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Looks ok to me. Did you follow the directions...one link overlap?

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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> Looks ok to me. Did you follow the directions...one link overlap?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Looks *way* too short to me. Also, the instructions say *two links* (one inner, one outer) for full suspension, *four links* (two inner, two outer) for hardtails. Chain length instructions for Eagle start at 6:38 in the video here.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Schwa72 said:


> Looks *way* too short to me. Also, the instructions say *two links* (one inner, one outer) for full suspension, *four links* (two inner, two outer) for hardtails. Chain length instructions for Eagle start at 6:38 in the video here.


I think you might have that backwards?

Looks too short for sure to me, I'd add 2 links (1 inch) of chain.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

alexbn921 said:


> Take a look at all derailleurs, they all have this space for when the cage is pulled all the way tight.


This again? Look at ANY of your own damn bikes (or the photos in the post below yours) and you'll see there is NEVER a situation where the chain occupies that space.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> I think you might have that backwards?
> 
> Looks too short for sure to me, I'd add 2 links (1 inch) of chain.


If it's too short you made a necklace or garage art.

You can't ADD links!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

92gli said:


> You can't ADD links!


You can if you have an extra quick link.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> You can if you have an extra quick link.


That brings up a good point.

Has anyone been running an eagle chain with 2 quick links that close to each other? Wondering if that would cause some shifting glitches.


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## Can2pir (Nov 27, 2016)

*Grip Shift: get it or not?*

I'm a SRAM grip shift guy so I could not be happier....[/QUOTE]

I'm another one of the rare 'grip shift guys' just 3x8, 3x9, now my new ride has the Eagle GX group BUT came with the thumb shifters. I haven't ridden a lot of thumb shifters over the last 20 years. I've only had a few rides on my new Giant Trance 1 due to 2 feet of snow and -30C temps.

Question: should I switch over to grip shift or just stay with the thumb shifter?


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> I think you might have that backwards?
> 
> Looks too short for sure to me, I'd add 2 links (1 inch) of chain.


Nope, I don't have that backwards. I thought the same thing at first, but watch the video I cited in my previous post. It's also in SRAM's tech documentation that comes with the components.

I guess their thinking is that the drivetrain operates most of the time when the suspension is *not* fully-compressed, and four extra links is the optimal chain length (as evidenced by their hardtail setup guidance). So, if you size the chain for two extra links when the suspension _is_ fully compressed (worst case), it'll be running in an optimized configuration at other times. Conversely, if you sized the chain with four extra links with the suspension fully compressed, the chain would be too long most of the time when the rear end isn't fully compressed.


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## briantortilla (Jun 18, 2009)

This. I was a bit confused with the chain sizing instructions at first but came to the same conclusion you did.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Schwa72 said:


> Looks *way* too short to me. Also, the instructions say *two links* (one inner, one outer) for full suspension, *four links* (two inner, two outer) for hardtails. Chain length instructions for Eagle start at 6:38 in the video here.


Opps...you are correct. 1 inner/1 outer is what I did on mine and to be honest, the suspension wasn't sagged. My CVA doesn't seem to change the derailleur much when it cycles and it hasn't broken yet. I will snap a pic of mine today in the 50.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

TiGeo said:


> Looks ok to me. Did you follow the directions...one link overlap?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No, it's a bastardized 11 speed setup using an eagle derraileur and I just re-used the chain I had when I had a 11-42 cassette. I'm thinking I'll go get a new chain and leave it a little longer. Thanks for all of the replies.


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## bikedrd (Jul 8, 2004)

92gli said:


> That brings up a good point.
> 
> Has anyone been running an eagle chain with 2 quick links that close to each other? Wondering if that would cause some shifting glitches.


I have and do. No problems.

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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Here's mine in the 50. Works perfect. Now that I compare it to the one above, yeah...that other one is 1 link too short it appears...mine originally was 1 link longer but in an attempt to try to work on the out-of-sync issue I felt the chain was a link too long.










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## ElPablo (Sep 9, 2007)

Streetdoctor said:


> Or everyone bitching and moaning in this thread are not qualified to work on a bike. 3 Eagle drivetrains, thousands of miles, zero issues other then smacking the cage on rocks (that damn eagle!) and bending hangers a couple times. One guy can't even load his bike on a bike rack properly but he's complaining about how bad eagle is LOL. You're taking the **** you read on the internet too seriously. I know a LOT of people running eagle, the only problem I've heard is from people smacking the cage on rocks because it hangs lower. I haven't measured but it's maybe 1/2" longer then the 11 speed derailleurs? Meeeh. It's easier to blame SRAM then your own lack of knowledge though, I get it.


I know a LOT of people running Eagle who hate it. It's not incompetent mechanics blaming SRAM - most are probably better qualified than you. I'm sorry you lack the reading comprehension to fully understand the actual problem and how the chain can become un synchronized, a problem that is well documented and that SRAM is aware of. Some of us have higher expectations and question Srams decision to use two narrow wide profiles on the cassette. Solving one problem by creating another is a bad decision and SRAM should be called on it.

Or you can bury your head in the sand and tell everyone how yours is so good and justify all the money you gave SRAM.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

ElPablo said:


> I know a LOT of people running Eagle who hate it. It's not incompetent mechanics blaming SRAM - most are probably better qualified than you. I'm sorry you lack the reading comprehension to fully understand the actual problem and how the chain can become un synchronized, a problem that is well documented and that SRAM is aware of. Some of us have higher expectations and question Srams decision to use two narrow wide profiles on the cassette. Solving one problem by creating another is a bad decision and SRAM should be called on it.
> 
> Or you can bury your head in the sand and tell everyone how yours is so good and justify all the money you gave SRAM.


While I experience the out of sync issue occasionally it's not enough of an issue (just a noise when it syncs up) to say I hate my Eagle. It really has been a great drivetrain so far for me. My guess is there will be some improvements next go around to sort this and the lower pulley issue out.

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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

I wonder if anyone who's had the lower pulley/cage/chain jam problem accidentally had the chain out-of-sync with the n/w profile on that pulley...?


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Schwa72 said:


> I wonder if anyone who's had the lower pulley/cage/chain jam problem accidentally had the chain out-of-sync with the n/w profile on that pulley...?


Not really possible as I discovered after my chain came off that pulley. The chain and nw pulley don't physically fit together when out of sync.

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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I just put GX eagle on my hightower. 2 rides in and no issues so far. I found that the setup was quite tricky. What I found most interesting is that I was having all sorts of synching and just general issues with the drivetrain during setup the L/H limit and indexing setup. Once the B-tension was dialed in, I no longer had any issues on the work stand or during the parking lot test. I did find that the limits needed slight adjusting post b-tension as well (1/4 - 1/2 turn at most).

I'll report back when I have more miles on this drive train and if I have any issues. So far so good, great drive train so far and the shifting performance has been improving as it wears in.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

Can2pir said:


> I'm a SRAM grip shift guy so I could not be happier....


I'm another one of the rare 'grip shift guys' just 3x8, 3x9, now my new ride has the Eagle GX group BUT came with the thumb shifters. I haven't ridden a lot of thumb shifters over the last 20 years. I've only had a few rides on my new Giant Trance 1 due to 2 feet of snow and -30C temps.

Question: should I switch over to grip shift or just stay with the thumb shifter?[/QUOTE]

I ride eagle with grip shift and love it. I injured my right thumb last season so I am running it on the left side and it works well. Allows me to upshift and downshift fast. I will say I already knew I liked grip shift from running it 3x9 in the past.


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

I was gonna switch from an 11-46 Shimano/Sunrace setup to Eagle but this thread scared me off. Between set up, noisy narrow wide cogs, and a finicky rear derailleur, I can’t justify spending the extra dough. I like to ride my bikes, not work on them. I’m sure it works great for some people, but this thread makes it sound hit or miss.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Penny said:


> I was gonna switch from an 11-46 Shimano/Sunrace setup to Eagle but this thread scared me off. Between set up, noisy narrow wide cogs, and a finicky rear derailleur, I can't justify spending the extra dough. I like to ride my bikes, not work on them. I'm sure it works great for some people, but this thread makes it sound hit or miss.


Don't let internet threads related to the negatives of something scare you off....remember...more people post about problems than those that have none. I have zero problems with my Eagle. The out-of-sync thing isn't a big deal, its a noise you hear once in a while...that's it. The system is the best drivetrain I have ever owned.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> The system is the best drivetrain I have ever owned.


Until it tears the RD off and a few spokes out of your wheel.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Penny said:


> I was gonna switch from an 11-46 Shimano/Sunrace setup to Eagle but this thread scared me off. Between set up, noisy narrow wide cogs, and a finicky rear derailleur, I can't justify spending the extra dough. I like to ride my bikes, not work on them. I'm sure it works great for some people, but this thread makes it sound hit or miss.


My last sram drive train was x0 - 9 speed. I've been using shimano 10 and 11 speed since. I recently swapped all my bikes over to sram 11 and 12 speed drive trains. Don't be put off by this thread or others, the sram drivetrains are simply better and require less maintenance. My shimano drive trains were butter smooth, but were always a bit finnicky and had a few gears where shifting performance was meh no matter what you did with the adjusters.

The sram stuff is bullet proof in it's adjustment, particularly the 11 speed stuff.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> Until it tears the RD off and a few spokes out of your wheel.


Fair enough, but that hasn't happened in 500 miles so if/when it does, we can talk.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

It's not hard at all to set up an Eagle drivetrain. SRAM gives you all the info you need - just size your chain correctly (+2 links for fully-compressed rear suspension bikes, +4 links for hardtails), make sure you have the right chainline depending on whether your bike is BOOST or not, use the B-screw gauge that comes with the Eagle derailleur, and it's a snap. I've built up three Eagle bikes and it's no more difficult than setting up a 1x11 Shimano drivetrain. I'm honestly not sure where all the problems are coming from.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Schwa72 said:


> It's not hard at all to set up an Eagle drivetrain. SRAM gives you all the info you need - just size your chain correctly (+2 links for fully-compressed rear suspension bikes, +4 links for hardtails), make sure you have the right chainline depending on whether your bike is BOOST or not, use the B-screw gauge that comes with the Eagle derailleur, and it's a snap. I've built up three Eagle bikes and it's no more difficult than setting up a 1x11 Shimano drivetrain. I'm honestly not sure where all the problems are coming from.


IDK about the "no more difficult". A lot of people struggle with rear derailleurs, then on top of that, a lot of people think they know how to adjust them and then really don't. The 11speed stuff from both MFGs was very forgiving in terms of adjustment range. Eagle is not quite so forgiving and you actually need to know the process and follow the order to get it right.

I do agree with you that it's not difficult (RTFM) overall, but it is more difficult then 11 speed IMO.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> IDK about the "no more difficult". A lot of people struggle with rear derailleurs, then on top of that, a lot of people think they know how to adjust them and then really don't. The 11speed stuff from both MFGs was very forgiving in terms of adjustment range. Eagle is not quite so forgiving and you actually need to know the process and follow the order to get it right.
> 
> I do agree with you that it's not difficult (RTFM) overall, but it is more difficult then 11 speed IMO.


RTFM is the key. For example, SRAM's zero-loss levers were new to me. With Shimano, I usually have to screw the shifter's barrel adjuster all the way in before installing the cable because, even after pulling the cable tight when installing it, I'd have to add more tension to get the indexing right. Not so with SRAM. If I pull the cable tight at the derailleur when installing it, there'd always be too much tension and I'd have to then screw the barrel adjuster in about two full turns to get the indexing right. In other words, if I used the same method to install Eagle as I did with Shimano, I didn't have any way to reduce cable tension short of loosening the cable pinch bolt...at which point the cable is already wrecked. So, I backed the adjuster out about three turns before installing the cable and that gave me plenty of leeway to reduce cable tension.

However, I think SRAM says to unscrew the barrel adjuster two full turns before installing the cable, so again, it all boils down to RTFM.

Hanger alignment matters too -- mine was off just a little bit and that screwed up shifting slightly for me. I usually make a point to use my DAG-2.2 to check derailleur alignment on new builds, but I forgot to do that on my latest bike, and chased my tail for a little bit before I realized that was causing a slight issue.

I'm a big fan of SRAM's B-tension adjustment tool. I wish Shimano had something like that.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

The bottom line is that the Eagle stuff is very precise and a lot of folks/mechanics aren't very good at setting stuff up so you get some issues. Mine is spot on in terms of shifting etc. I get the noise every once in a while from the chain not syncing to the 42 and/or 50 is all and there is nothing I can do about that. This has been discussed in other threads and does seem like a design issue but in teh end it doesn't impact the shifting quality that I can tell beyond a noise every once in a while. I suspect some of the failures noted are from mis-adjusted/aligned/whatever derailleurs.


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## toodles (Oct 14, 2004)

Mine worked great brand new, until the first muddy ride when the bottom pulley jammed and I wrote off the rear mech and put it into the wheel. Kinda crappy for a bike less than 100 miles old.

New replacement mech - installed and setup by the SRAM guys. 2nd ride out on it, in light rain and the crunching and noise was horrific. I've been told the high end Eagle works better than my GX stuff, but I'm not paying to gamble. I've ordered the parts to go back to 11spd GX which has run flawlessly for me in all conditions for the past two years.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

toodles said:


> Mine worked great brand new, until the first muddy ride when the bottom pulley jammed and I wrote off the rear mech and put it into the wheel. Kinda crappy for a bike less than 100 miles old.
> 
> New replacement mech - installed and setup by the SRAM guys. 2nd ride out on it, in light rain and the crunching and noise was horrific. I've been told the high end Eagle works better than my GX stuff, but I'm not paying to gamble. I've ordered the parts to go back to 11spd GX which has run flawlessly for me in all conditions for the past two years.


The reason it failed according to all the never happened to me guys is that it wasn't set up right. No other possible explanation.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Boy there is a lot of useless emotions here. So many people getting off on posting useless comments. Disappointing.... 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## jasonp22 (Oct 5, 2016)

Just wanted to post up my experience. Upgraded to GX Eagle from stock SRAM 2x10 about a month ago. Been riding about 2 years and have decent general mechanical skills (not bike-specific). 

After installing by carefully watching videos and reading other online instructions, I thought everything was good. However I was getting occasional skipping and horrific grinding during out-of-sync moments. Sometimes those would result in the chain falling behind the 50. 

I had most issues described in this thread at one point or another. Messed with it a long time and got frustrated, ready to take it to a shop. But then just really learned how everything needs to work and put in a TON of time to make the careful and precise adjustments (chain, tension, limits, bscrew). It works perfectly now. Just clicks shifts off smoothly, no issue. Knock on wood; sounds like many were right in my case, it’s just a sensitive setup.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> The reason it failed according to all the never happened to me guys is that it wasn't set up right. No other possible explanation.


That bottom-pulley-jamming issue is definitely a head-scratcher. Set up might've been an issue in some cases, but in others it clearly wasn't.

FWIW my post about setup was in response to someone who was getting scared off because of all the Eagle setup horror stories. There's really nothing over-the-top hard about setting up Eagle -- you just have to follow the instructions and pay special attention to B-tension, chain length, chainline, cable tension, and the limit screws. I think what's new to most folks is having to be so precise with B-tension and chain length. But, again, SRAM gives you the instructions on how to do this correctly.

Of course, none of that helps the guys with jammed lower pulleys...


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> The reason it failed according to all the never happened to me guys is that it wasn't set up right. No other possible explanation.


But "the never happened to me" are valid data points. To do this right, you take a large population of Eagle users across a variety of terrains, areas, user groups, etc. and get their feedback. I have a feeling if you did it correctly, you would see only a small portion of problems in that group. MTBR is not a statistically valid group....it's going to be mainly be weighted towards the problem end b/c that's what we do online...post problems and see if anyone can help us fix it. I realize there are clearly folks having issues, but how many are set up related? How many are design related? Maybe you are correct and the derailleur pulley issue is design related and I just haven't had an instance of it jumping off. Not sure, again, no statistics/science to this discussion. To reverse your logic...just because someone's Eagle goofs up doesn't mean all Eagle drivetrains are crap.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

What Schwa72 said about the barrel adjustment on the shifter is very important. And counter-intuitive, especially for experienced mechanics. I wonder how many people ignore that part of the video/instructions? It sure made me scratch my head the first time I heard it.

And it stands to reason that a large number of complete bikes were assembled by people who ignored it. Lets say you spend years assembling multiple bikes per day in some warehouse and you always start with the adjuster screwed all the way in... Hard habit to break eh?


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

92gli said:


> What Schwa72 said about the barrel adjustment on the shifter is very important. And counter-intuitive, especially for experienced mechanics. I wonder how many people ignore that part of the video/instructions? It sure made me scratch my head the first time I heard it.
> 
> And it stands to reason that a large number of complete bikes were assembled by people who ignored it. Lets say you spend years assembling multiple bikes per day in some warehouse and you always start with the adjuster screwed all the way in... Hard habit to break eh?


that's not actually new, shimano says the same on their 11 speed instructions


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> But "the never happened to me" are valid data points. To do this right, you take a large population of Eagle users across a variety of terrains, areas, user groups, etc. and get their feedback. I have a feeling if you did it correctly, you would see only a small portion of problems in that group. MTBR is not a statistically valid group....it's going to be mainly be weighted towards the problem end b/c that's what we do online...post problems and see if anyone can help us fix it. I realize there are clearly folks having issues, but how many are set up related? How many are design related? Maybe you are correct and the derailleur pulley issue is design related and I just haven't had an instance of it jumping off. Not sure, again, no statistics/science to this discussion. To reverse your logic...just because someone's Eagle goofs up doesn't mean all Eagle drivetrains are crap.


Nevermind


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I wonder why the lower pulley is N/W? What does that do for you? I get the N/W on the 42 and 50 to help avoid backpedalling issues.


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Found a thread on singletrackworld, very similar experiences:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/sram-eagle-problem-any-one-experienced-it 


TiGeo said:


> But "the never happened to me" are valid data points. To do this right, you take a large population of Eagle users across a variety of terrains, areas, user groups, etc. and get their feedback. I have a feeling if you did it correctly, you would see only a small portion of problems in that group. MTBR is not a statistically valid group....it's going to be mainly be weighted towards the problem end b/c that's what we do online...post problems and see if anyone can help us fix it. I realize there are clearly folks having issues, but how many are set up related? How many are design related? Maybe you are correct and the derailleur pulley issue is design related and I just haven't had an instance of it jumping off. Not sure, again, no statistics/science to this discussion. To reverse your logic...just because someone's Eagle goofs up doesn't mean all Eagle drivetrains are crap.


These are fair points, but if it is that sensitive to setup, you'd have to call that an issue in itself. You've got expert bike shops all over the world failing to get it right. Then, even if they do, the slightest knock, cable stretch, whatever, would apparently mean the difference between the best drivetrain in the world and one that self destructs at will.

There are a lot of 2018 bikes specced with gx eagle, so I guess we'll find out soon enough how widespread the problems are.

I've bought the b adjustment spacing tool, so will start from scratch and set it up myself. Sounds like one of the best mountain bike stores in the country wasn't up to the task.


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## toodles (Oct 14, 2004)

Ah cmon nothing should be that fiddly on a mountain bike. Even if it works fine with perfect setup, thats great and all, but these bikes are meant to be ridden hard for hours at a time in every imaginable condition. They're expected to be subjected to trailside repairs, often in remote locations and worked on in race pits by privateers without access to Vernier calipers, alignment jigs and a team of calibration experts.

That alone is reason for me to ditch and go back to 11 speed. I've got a few multi-day enduros on in 2018 and stuff isn't going to be textbook perfect. I've had reasonably good luck running 11spd GX mechs, with XO1 shifters in some pretty horribly muddy, wet and dusty conditions. I'll go back to that setup until I have more faith in the 12spd. I just wish SRAM did a 46T cassette, but will just give the heavy XT 11-46 the job for now.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^But that's it...once they are set up they seem to stay that way. I haven't touched mine since the day I got in terms of set up with the shifting.


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## toodles (Oct 14, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> ^^But that's it...once they are set up they seem to stay that way. I haven't touched mine since the day I got in terms of set up with the shifting.


Sounds like yours is spot on then which is awesome. I had mine set up by the shop for the first mech, and the SRAM guys for the second and its still not great. Checked the hanger and everything.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

No clue, it's really like any other drivetrain with the exception of being more sensitive to the B adj. What specifically does yours do that isn't quite right?


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## ElPablo (Sep 9, 2007)

minimusprime said:


> My last sram drive train was x0 - 9 speed. I've been using shimano 10 and 11 speed since. I recently swapped all my bikes over to sram 11 and 12 speed drive trains. Don't be put off by this thread or others, the sram drivetrains are simply better and require less maintenance. My shimano drive trains were butter smooth, but were always a bit finnicky and had a few gears where shifting performance was meh no matter what you did with the adjusters.
> 
> The sram stuff is bullet proof in it's adjustment, particularly the 11 speed stuff.


The 11 speed SRAM shifts and feels great, Eagle not so much. Shimano XTR 1x11 just works so you're better off keeping it - at least until Eagle v2.0...


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## ElPablo (Sep 9, 2007)

minimusprime said:


> IDK about the "no more difficult". A lot of people struggle with rear derailleurs, then on top of that, a lot of people think they know how to adjust them and then really don't. The 11speed stuff from both MFGs was very forgiving in terms of adjustment range. Eagle is not quite so forgiving and you actually need to know the process and follow the order to get it right.
> 
> I do agree with you that it's not difficult (RTFM) overall, but it is more difficult then 11 speed IMO.


The b-adjustment screw is the most important adjustment on Eagle and REQUIRES the red plastic adjustment tool. Unlike 1x11 - Eagle requires very precise adjustment - but even when it is spot on the chain can get unsynched and crunch from a rapid downshift from 3-1. To understand why :

http://monosujet.com/2017/08/12/sram-eagle-shifting-problem/

When the b-adjustment is even slightly off, the shifting is terrible and is the primary cause of chain skipping on the 42T sprocket.


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## ElPablo (Sep 9, 2007)

Schwa72 said:


> .
> 
> I'm a big fan of SRAM's B-tension adjustment tool. I wish Shimano had something like that.


Shimano doesn't need it.


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## ElPablo (Sep 9, 2007)

TiGeo said:


> No clue, it's really like any other drivetrain with the exception of being more sensitive to the B adj. What specifically does yours do that isn't quite right?


I started obsessing over Eagle shifting the day i got my new Fuel EX 9.9. I rode out of the shop and it was skipping in the 42T. Two hours later and the mechanic still couldn't get it right, and the official Trek/SRAM dealership didn't even have the red plastic adjustment tool (which seems to be the case with most SRAM dealers). I got one elsewhere and properly adjusted the derailleur myself. But then I noticed on certain shifts the chain would ride on top of the sprockets, and eventually I traced it down to the two largest cogs being narrow wide. Many of you might just meh it off, (it really is a 1st world problem) But that doesn't change the fact that making a narrow wide tooth profile on the cassette is just a f-ing bad idea - it can't possibly work on EVERY shift. I ride mostly gnarly steep rocky technical terrain and use the 42/50 a lot - and I cringe every time it crunches.

Eagle is high end - what if it was Porsche gear box randomly crunching ? My Trek dealer mechanic even asked me to borrow the tool - imagine Porsche asking customers to borrow tools.

SRAM eagle has the potential of being awesome but once again, they're using customers to beta test their products so that the next version will be spot on.

Kind of like Garmin does with their GPSs.

Some companies just suck, and SRAM is at the top of the list.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

ElPablo said:


> I started obsessing over Eagle shifting the day i got my new Fuel EX 9.9. I rode out of the shop and it was skipping in the 42T. Two hours later and the mechanic still couldn't get it right, and the official Trek/SRAM dealership didn't even have the red plastic adjustment tool (which seems to be the case with most SRAM dealers). I got one elsewhere and properly adjusted the derailleur myself. But then I noticed on certain shifts the chain would ride on top of the sprockets, and eventually I traced it down to the two largest cogs being narrow wide. Many of you might just meh it off, (it really is a 1st world problem) But that doesn't change the fact that making a narrow wide tooth profile on the cassette is just a f-ing bad idea - it can't possibly work on EVERY shift. I ride mostly gnarly steep rocky technical terrain and use the 42/50 a lot - and I cringe every time it crunches.
> 
> Eagle is high end - what if it was Porsche gear box randomly crunching ? My Trek dealer mechanic even asked me to borrow the tool - imagine Porsche asking customers to borrow tools.
> 
> ...


I completely understand your concerns. The shop I got my bike at contacted SRAM about my "chain riding on the 42 and 50" concern and like you already know, they acknowledged that it can happen so clearly they are aware of this. The B screw adjustment tool - I too had to purchase one as I am not sure the shop that put my bike together used one or if they had it leftover from the build. Mine was close. I don't believe that the B screw adjustment is the cause of this particular issue however as I have played with mine taking it beyond the proper position and can still get the chain riding on the 42/50 some of the time. Again, mine works great and the noise I hear once in a while isn't causing me any issues as the things hit the shifts every time I need them but I rarely use my 42/50. Will be curious to see if they make any changes to the system based on this. I also believe that SRAM is pretty generous with warranty replacement so maybe try that avenue if/when they make a change that eliminates the issue.


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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

The tool gives a measurement of the B-gap for the B-adjust screw. You can set the proper B-gap in the interim without the tool by following instructions in the user manual- page 17.

You will want to adjust the B-adjust screw to place a 15mm gap between the large cog and upper pulley. This needs to be done with the bike in sag position if FS. So you will need someone to assist or will need to let air out of shock until it sits at your normal sag, then pump it back up after adjusting.

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...-000_rev_c_1x_mtb_derailleurs_user_manual.pdf


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

ElPablo said:


> Shimano doesn't need it.


Shimano specifies the proper range of distances (between the upper pulley and large cassette cog) that one should target when adjusting the B-tension screw. The problem is that it's a real ***** to measure this distance with any degree of accuracy. So, while Shimano might not "need" it because their system is more tolerant of out-of-spec B-gap adjustment, there is a spec, and a gauge would sure help meet it. At least it would if you care about adjusting things correctly.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

My general rule was to get the upper pulley as close to the big cog in the back without touching it with the B screw. Worked for me for years on Shimano and Sram stuff. The Eagle gauge is cool and is easy to use for this setting. The suspension component is interesting as it can potentially change (depending on the suspension design) that distance as the suspension cycles through it's travel. I really don't think the B setting is what is causing either the 1) chain riding on the 42/50 issue or the 2) chain coming off the lower pulley issue. It is just for overall shifting quality.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I do wonder how much the axle path matters with regards to the chain and jockey wheel twist issue. I think it's interesting that sram has you adjust the b-tension with the bike at it's sag. I've never in my years of ham fist mechanic-ing my bikes set b-tension at sag. 

I wonder if bikes that have substantial chain growth (digressive rearward axle path) early in their stroke (pre-sag point) are more prone to the jocky wheel/derailleur eating then bikes with minimal reward axle path or progressive re-ward axle path (pre sag point). 

It seems logical as the axle path would cause chain slackening on suspension extension past sag which could cause the chain to drop off the jockey pullies. Maybe the derailleur and clutch system can't take up excessive slack fast enough in these conditions. This would obviously support the design issue causation/correlation theories.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Schwa72 said:


> It's not hard at all to set up an Eagle drivetrain. SRAM gives you all the info you need - just size your chain correctly (+2 links for fully-compressed rear suspension bikes, +4 links for hardtails), make sure you have the right chainline depending on whether your bike is BOOST or not, use the B-screw gauge that comes with the Eagle derailleur, and it's a snap. I've built up three Eagle bikes and it's no more difficult than setting up a 1x11 Shimano drivetrain. I'm honestly not sure where all the problems are coming from.


I'm curious how you make sure you have the right chain line? I have a hardtail with boost spacing and the Eagle ring says 6mm offset or something along those lines on the inside of the ring.

I've been tweaking all my adjustments and got it about 98% perfect where shifts are fast and precise but just trying to eek out anymore performance in my setup. The only thing I haven't verified is chain line, cause I don't know how lol.

-edit- did a little googling, seems like the 6mm offset is typically for 142/49mm spacing but I'm on 148/52mm, which uses the Sram 3mm rings for the right chain line. That explains why my 32T is so damn close to my chainstay!!! Grrr... I ordered a X-Sync2 oval ring from the shop that built my bike, when it comes in I'll see if they'll just swap me out for the "wrong" one they put on it as new.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

farfromovin said:


> I'm curious how you make sure you have the right chain line? I have a hardtail with boost spacing and the Eagle ring says 6mm offset or something along those lines on the inside of the ring.
> 
> I've been tweaking all my adjustments and got it about 98% perfect where shifts are fast and precise but just trying to eek out anymore performance in my setup. The only thing I haven't verified is chain line, cause I don't know how lol.
> 
> -edit- did a little googling, seems like the 6mm offset is typically for 142 spacing but I'm on 148 which is usually 3mm for the right chain line. That explains why my 32T is so damn close to my chainstay!!! Grrr...


The recommended chain line is 49mm from the center of your BB. For boost you add 3mm to get 52mm. 49 will work on boost but tend to get caught on the small sprockets when you downshift. Some companies like Race Face use a 51mm for everything. Absolute Black used to use 50.5.
The shorter your chain stays the more impact the offset will have. Most bikes have long enough stays to tolerate +-2mm offset. It's still best to have the correct chainline for best shifting.


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## mtbikewv (Dec 18, 2005)

minimusprime said:


> I do wonder how much the axle path matters with regards to the chain and jockey wheel twist issue. I think it's interesting that sram has you adjust the b-tension with the bike at it's sag. I've never in my years of ham fist mechanic-ing my bikes set b-tension at sag.
> 
> I wonder if bikes that have substantial chain growth (digressive rearward axle path) early in their stroke (pre-sag point) are more prone to the jocky wheel/derailleur eating then bikes with minimal reward axle path or progressive re-ward axle path (pre sag point).
> 
> It seems logical as the axle path would cause chain slackening on suspension extension past sag which could cause the chain to drop off the jockey pullies. Maybe the derailleur and clutch system can't take up excessive slack fast enough in these conditions. This would obviously support the design issue causation/correlation theories.


I agree with this. I believe that under certain conditions the cage cannot return quick enough and this allows the chain to jump off the bottom pulley. It is almost as if the clutch is working in both directions - extension and return. The couple of times that mine had dropped off the pulley, I was riding thru extremely rough sections of trail.
A little more than 2 months after adding the plastic guard behind the bottom pulley I have not had anymore issues - keeping fingers crossed!


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

alexbn921 said:


> The recommended chain line is 49mm from the center of your BB. For boost you add 3mm to get 52mm. 49 will work on boost but tend to get caught on the small sprockets when you downshift. Some companies like Race Face use a 51mm for everything. Absolute Black used to use 50.5.
> The shorter your chain stays the more impact the offset will have. Most bikes have long enough stays to tolerate +-2mm offset. It's still best to have the correct chainline for best shifting.


Thanks, my short stays/Eagle/Boost and 6mm offset ring is behaving just like that. I have it adjusted to the best compromise in the meantime but I'll swap in the correct 3mm ring next week!


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Have 2 winter rides in on my new Kona with Eagle GX and it shifts perfect so far. I assembled bike and set up per SRAM guidance. Did not come with 'B' gap tool so I used 15mm guidance (15mm between top pulley teeth and big cog teeth with susp compressed). Chain length was already set and appears to be right. My cage has NW on bottom pulley but not top. Coming from 3X9 so I am loving the simplicity of a 1X setup.

I will say I am careful to not apply too much torque when shifting into the two lowest gears (both NW) until I feel them engaged.


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## gtsum2 (Jun 28, 2017)

I am going to build up a new ride and am stuck between gx or x01...how is the performance difference between them? With the additional cost? Will likely be going on a yeti 4.5c


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

gtsum2 said:


> I am going to build up a new ride and am stuck between gx or x01...how is the performance difference between them? With the additional cost? Will likely be going on a yeti 4.5c
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I have both. If you don't care about the bling or weight, X01 is definitely not worth more than 2x the cost of GX. The performance/feel is almost identical; you really have to ride them back to back to notice a difference, and even then it's simply that GX feels slightly different at the lever, not worse.

I haven't tried it, but I bet if you used the X01 shifter with GX everything else, there'd be no distinguishing the two.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

On adjusting B tension to 15mm w/ sag. Is that full compression of the suspension or regular sag (20-30%)? I assumed it was full compression as when setting chain length, but it seems confusing when reading the directions. TIA.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

Andy13 said:


> On adjusting B tension to 15mm w/ sag. Is that full compression of the suspension or regular sag (20-30%)? I assumed it was full compression as when setting chain length, but it seems confusing when reading the directions. TIA.


B-tension is set with regular sag, chain length is set at full compression. If you think about it it makes sense - you'd set b-tension for best shifting performance most of the time, and since it's a fair bet that most of the time is spent near the sag point, that's the point at which you'd adjust the b-tension. Conversely, you'd want to make sure your chain still has sufficient slack/length when the rear axle is farthest from the bottom bracket, and that's typically when the suspension is fully compressed, so that's the point at which you size the chain.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks Schwa17. Yes it does make sense. Just checking.


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

Andy13 said:


> On adjusting B tension to 15mm w/ sag. Is that full compression of the suspension or regular sag (20-30%)? I assumed it was full compression as when setting chain length, but it seems confusing when reading the directions. TIA.


More info here in a visual form:


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Well, went from a 32T round +6mm offset ring on my boost setup to a 34T Oval +3mm and re-adjusted everything. Shifts like lightning now!!! 
I don’t know what the “spec” is for chainring to chainstay clearance, but I’m pretty tight lol.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Not sure if this has been posted else where but Shmeagle works flawlessly


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## HSracer (Jun 30, 2013)

screamingbunny said:


> Not sure if this has been posted else where but Shmeagle works flawlessly
> 
> View attachment 1178130


 What shifter are you running? Did you need to get a new B limit screw?


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

no new b tension screw, XO shifter, gotta back alittle clutch tension out.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

screamingbunny said:


> no new b tension screw, XO shifter, gotta back alittle clutch tension out.


Why? Since you already have the cassette and shifter, why not just get the X01 derailleur too and do it right?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

screamingbunny said:


> Not sure if this has been posted else where but Shmeagle works flawlessly
> 
> View attachment 1178130


The leverage ratio between the derailleurs is close, but not identical. The travel angle of the Shimano is not on the same as the sram cassette. 
Flawless is not how I would categorize this mod. Distance will be to far on the small cogs and it will never be perfectly aligned on more than 1 gear.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Why - already had a 1x11 Shimano set up and saved me $230 for a new derailleur
And flawless is how I would describe it after 30+ miles of trail riding, don't knock it till you try it


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

I don't doubt it works. I do doubt it works better than it would with a SRAM Eagle derailleur. Why not try a GX rear mech for $110 and give it a shot? Hell, you already had to cough up the money for a cassette, XD driver, and shifter -- I don't understand the point of being thrifty now when you can improve it even more.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Never said it worked BETTER than Eagle, it works as well as my XO Eagle Full suspension bike, just don't see the point in spending the extra $$$ for no improvement. Plus I figured the general public might like to know this set up works.


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## toodles (Oct 14, 2004)

People that have had ther Eagle mech warranty replaced after the jockey wheel jamming - how long did it take? I had mine die on the 23rd December and still haven't heard back yet.


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## fitzhenry (Feb 14, 2017)

What size front chainring are Eagle folks running? I've got a new Element coming in a couple weeks and the stock was 32t, but I'm gonna bump that up to 34t. Wondering if that may be too big for the steeper trail climbs. Kinda second guessing myself, as I've yet to ride a 1x system before.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

sturge said:


> Have 2 winter rides in on my new Kona with Eagle GX and it shifts perfect so far. I assembled bike and set up per SRAM guidance. Did not come with 'B' gap tool so I used 15mm guidance (15mm between top pulley teeth and big cog teeth with susp compressed). Chain length was already set and appears to be right. My cage has NW on bottom pulley but not top. Coming from 3X9 so I am loving the simplicity of a 1X setup.
> 
> I will say I am careful to not apply too much torque when shifting into the two lowest gears (both NW) until I feel them engaged.


So...last night (5th ride on new bike) I picked up a small stick that pulled into lower pulley/cage area and pulled the whole assy toward the wheel enough for the cage to get snagged on a spoke. I was 3-4 gears out of the big '50' ring when it let out a CRUNCH and I immediately stopped. Was able to get things untangled and there was no catastrophic damage but things were definitely bent and misaligned. I did a trailside repair (cold night ride about 6 miles out) by gently bending cage assy back into alignment as best I could. Got it so everything worked well except 3 biggest gears where the misalignment showed itself most. Using gear noise as a 'cue' I was able to finish ride without incident by staying out of the lowest 3 gears where the noise would appear.

Will see if I can get things back to shifting smoothly in all 12 gears...gonna start with hangar then go from there.

I don't consider this a design flaw, just bad luck...lots of sticks, ice, muck, debris on New England trails this time of year. About an hour later my riding partner sheared his hangar totally off about 3 miles later on the same ride. He had to walk it out the last 2-3 miles. We set a new standard...WTF are the chances of 2 riders BOTH having derailleur/hangar/debris incidents in the same 2hr ride?


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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

Eagle GX 32t set up, low gear (50t) is lower then the lowest gear on a 2x10 with 28/38 chain rings and 11-36 cassette. The 42t cassette ring (2nd gear) is about the same as the lowest gear in the 2x10 setup.. So I would say running a 34t chainring would be fine for most people, except for very steep/long climbs.

check this out to actually calculate the options. Bike Gears calculator


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

fitzhenry said:


> What size front chainring are Eagle folks running? I've got a new Element coming in a couple weeks and the stock was 32t, but I'm gonna bump that up to 34t. Wondering if that may be too big for the steeper trail climbs. Kinda second guessing myself, as I've yet to ride a 1x system before.


My new Kona came with GX12 and 34 NW chainring. Coming from 3X9 on my Heckler (front=22/32/44...rear=11/34). Only 5 rides in at 3 different areas but I've quickly discovered it's going to be very rare I will need to go all the way down to the 50T gear.

Lots of variables...terrain, bike, rider, etc. but for me the 34T is a keeper.


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## fitzhenry (Feb 14, 2017)

sturge said:


> My new Kona came with GX12 and 34 NW chainring. Coming from 3X9 on my Heckler (front=22/32/44...rear=11/34). Only 5 rides in at 3 different areas but I've quickly discovered it's going to be very rare I will need to go all the way down to the 50T gear.
> 
> Lots of variables...terrain, bike, rider, etc. but for me the 34T is a keeper.


That's good to hear, I'm just overthinking it probably. Bike is primarily for ultra-distance bikepacking races, so I don't want something that makes no sense when I'm 20 hours into a ride. Seems most folks in this discipline have opted for 28t or 30t on their 1x systems, though those weren't Eagle.


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## drakenclimber (Apr 9, 2017)

fitzhenry said:


> That's good to hear, I'm just overthinking it probably. Bike is primarily for ultra-distance bikepacking races, so I don't want something that makes no sense when I'm 20 hours into a ride. Seems most folks in this discipline have opted for 28t or 30t on their 1x systems, though those weren't Eagle.


I have 32t on the front of my Eagle GX here in the Colorado front range. I am often doing climbs of 3 to 4 miles with ~2000' of vertical. (I am an above average climber, but not a mutant by any means .) I would struggle with a 34t on the front.

I'm hoping to do the Colorado Trail in the next few years, and I will definitely be looking at a 28t or 30t for that ride.


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## TrialsCartel (May 5, 2016)

TrialsCartel said:


> Apparently yes . GX materials and springs are a lot more flimsy making it flex alot more which is the cause for jammed chain-snapped inner cage


Yesterday riding with a friend he had the exact same failure on his GX eagle equipped Slash 2018. While going down, chain jams, he pedals for a jump, and upper pulley flys breaking inner cage....😰


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

TrialsCartel said:


> Yesterday riding with a friend he had the exact same failure on his GX eagle equipped Slash 2018. While going down, chain jams, he pedals for a jump, and upper pulley flys breaking inner cage....😰


His fault for not setting it up correctly.


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Forget traditional chain guides, the new must have is the derailleur pulley guide. To stop your chain taking off, like an Eagle

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## rebnah (Mar 8, 2015)

Sorry guys to butt in but I’m just about to buy a new 2016 Scott scale RC 700. Would you keep the SRAM XX1 groupset it’s running as standard or sell it all and upgrade to XX1 Eagle?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

rebnah said:


> Sorry guys to butt in but I'm just about to buy a new 2016 Scott scale RC 700. Would you keep the SRAM XX1 groupset it's running as standard or sell it all and upgrade to XX1 Eagle?


XX1 is great. if you need and want eagle, I would use the money you would spend on a newer bike that has it.


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## rebnah (Mar 8, 2015)

alexbn921 said:


> XX1 is great. if you need and want eagle, I would use the money you would spend on a newer bike that has it.


I would uasally but I'm only paying 2k for it so it's so cheap I can't go wrong


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I think XX1 on a Scott Scale is perfect. Unless you feel you need a higher end "road" gear (like racing Leadville 100) there is no need for Eagle on such a light bike . Or if you feel you need a lower gear that would use the 50t on the Eagle would I recommend getting it. I've ridden 28t chainring with my XX1 on my Scott Spark in extreme cases and felt it was geared fine.


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## rebnah (Mar 8, 2015)

Andy13 said:


> I think XX1 on a Scott Scale is perfect. Unless you feel you need a higher end "road" gear (like racing Leadville 100) there is no need for Eagle on such a light bike . Or if you feel you need a lower gear that would use the 50t on the Eagle would I recommend getting it. I've ridden 28t chainring with my XX1 on my Scott Spark in extreme cases and felt it was geared fine.


Cheers for the advice mate
I'm quite new to all this and saw the bike and fell in love with it.
For 2k brand new I know it's 2016 but it's got great reviews.
So really just best to leave it standard you think? Unless you can recommend and upgrades to make it super cool lol


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

keep the xx1 and think about changing when it's time to replace your cassette/chain/chainring. no reason to replace now... likely you are gonna be losing money


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## kave (Jan 7, 2013)

Keep the XX1 11spd, such a wonderful drivetrain that is. As others said, keep it and change when it needs replacement.


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## LowLow (Sep 18, 2007)

Given that you're supposed to adjust the b-screw while the bike is int its sag, do people notice that the upper pulley hits the large cog when you shift if the bike is just in a stand?


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

LowLow said:


> Given that you're supposed to adjust the b-screw while the bike is int its sag, do people notice that the upper pulley hits the large cog when you shift if the bike is just in a stand?


No, not even close. The upper pulley shouldn't move all that much between sag and min/max suspension compression.


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## rebnah (Mar 8, 2015)

Cheers for the reply people.
One more question if you don't mind?
The choice i have is a new 2016 Scott Scale 700 RC £2K 
or a new 2017 Scott Scale RC 700pro £3.5k 
or third choice is a new 2017 Scott Scale RC 700 World cup £3.3k?

What would you buy people?


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

rebnah said:


> Cheers for the reply people.
> One more question if you don't mind?
> The choice i have is a new 2016 Scott Scale 700 RC £2K
> or a new 2017 Scott Scale RC 700pro £3.5k
> ...


Didn't they redesigned the frame for 2017?


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## rebnah (Mar 8, 2015)

mevnet said:


> Didn't they redesigned the frame for 2017?


Yes they did that's why the RC 2016 is cheaper.
What one would you buy? The older cheaper high spec bike or the new frame bike


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

New frame. It's easier (and cheaper) to upgrade the components gradually than it is to upgrade the frame.

Seems like this discussion is veering wildly off-topic though...it may be better for you to ask in the Scott subforum.


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## rebnah (Mar 8, 2015)

Schwa72 said:


> New frame. It's easier (and cheaper) to upgrade the components gradually than it is to upgrade the frame.
> 
> Seems like this discussion is veering wildly off-topic though...it may be better for you to ask in the Scott subforum.


Cheers it's ok now I'm sorted.
I brought a brand new old 2016 Scott scale RC700 and a as new pair of Fox factory Step cast forks to put on it. Then I'm going to sell the brand new RockShox forks


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

LowLow said:


> Given that you're supposed to adjust the b-screw while the bike is int its sag, do people notice that the upper pulley hits the large cog when you shift if the bike is just in a stand?


This tip really improved my shifting. It's flawless now!


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

how critical or precise do you need to be when adjusting the high limit screw?

the sram installation video says "center of the upper pulley wheel is aligned with the outboard edge of the smallest cog."






in the past, on other sram drivetrains, i've never needed to do this. i use to adjust the high limit screw so that the upper pulley wheel and smallest cog are aligned completely straight.


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

useport80 said:


> how critical or precise do you need to be when adjusting the high limit screw?
> 
> the sram installation video says "center of the upper pulley wheel is aligned with the outboard edge of the smallest cog."
> 
> ...


I did aligned straight on the high limit and no problem.

Same on the low limit where there is an error on that video, you have to tighten the screw so that the center of the upper pulley wheel is aligned to the center of the largest cassette cog. (video says smallest cassette).

In my experience it's important to correctly set the limits for overall sync, but just aligned once and you are ready. I just re check when I change cable.
Check my DIY for more details.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

pipots said:


> I did aligned straight on the high limit and no problem.
> 
> Same on the low limit where there is an error on that video, you have to tighten the screw so that the center of the upper pulley wheel is aligned to the center of the largest cassette cog. (video says smallest cassette).
> 
> ...


maybe i'll try aligning the high limit screw so that the upper pulley wheel and smallest cog are aligned center on center like you.

i also noticed the error in the sram video when he was adjusting the low limit screw.


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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

Assembled my new bike in December. I didn't watch the video, I just set both limits screws like I have any other derailleur, pulled the cable until there was no slack, then rode. It was a little noisy in the middle gears, so I tightened the cable with the adjuster at the shifter and it has been fine since.


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## magnil (Apr 28, 2013)

niels65 said:


> I still have tension on the derailleur though it it doesn't look of much, the chain is still tight. I followed the instruction in the SRAM installation video on YouTube.


Does it work alright with this length of the chain? I get similar according to Sram´s instructions, seems too long?


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## niels65 (Jun 11, 2015)

magnil said:


> Does it work alright with this length of the chain? I get similar according to Sram´s instructions, seems too long?
> 
> View attachment 1184861


Try to shift to the largest cog, and also let out the air of the rear shock. By full compression there should be a little play in the derailleur. Depending of your rear shock travel, I would think that you could shorten it by one link (I ended up doing so - after taking this picture).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## monts (May 24, 2011)

magnil said:


> Does it work alright with this length of the chain? I get similar according to Sram´s instructions, seems too long?
> 
> View attachment 1184861


Mine is probably two links shorter than that and so far (in the stand) it works great. I followed SRAM directions but when I linked it up and put it through the derailleur I did not have enough tension so I dropped two more and it seems good, didn't even do any barrel adjusting and it's shifting pretty decent.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

What I found most funky about Eagle adjustment procedure was the high limit adjustment. Adjust until the center of the upper pulley aligns with the outboard edge of the small cog.
Normally I’d just like those up straight on a Shimano setup.


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## phalkon30 (Jan 17, 2009)

I've had setups on some bikes that required a little over travel to get onto a cog (kind of like a front derailleur). I can see with the long travel this system makes it may get a more reliable shift into that last gear, maybe a little more flex in it?


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## monts (May 24, 2011)

phalkon30 said:


> I've had setups on some bikes that required a little over travel to get onto a cog (kind of like a front derailleur). I can see with the long travel this system makes it may get a more reliable shift into that last gear, maybe a little more flex in it?


i didn't really over adjust mine, I did initially but needed to adjust the cable tension, and when I tightened the cable I think it moved the wheel right back over the small cog instead of to the outside, but it drops onto it just fine, I'm not going to re-adjust if it's working.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

niels65 said:


> Try to shift to the largest cog, and also let out the air of the rear shock. By full compression there should be a little play in the derailleur. Depending of your rear shock travel, I would think that you could shorten it by one link (I ended up doing so - after taking this picture).
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The chain looks too long to me, but you really need to size the chain when the distance between the BB and the rear axle is greatest (this usually, but not always, occurs when the suspension is fully compressed). At that point you add one inner and one outer link to the chain to get it to the correct length. Yes, it's a little counter-intuitive since, for hardtails, SRAM's guidance is to add two outer and two inner links, but for full suspension bikes, you add one inner & one outer link to the chain when the BB-to-axle distance is greatest.


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## NullAndVoid (May 29, 2011)

Schwa72 said:


> The chain looks too long to me, but you really need to size the chain when the distance between the BB and the rear axle is greatest (this usually, but not always, occurs when the suspension is fully compressed). At that point you add one inner and one outer link to the chain to get it to the correct length. Yes, it's a little counter-intuitive since, for hardtails, SRAM's guidance is to add two outer and two inner links, but for full suspension bikes, you add one inner & one outer link to the chain when the BB-to-axle distance is greatest.


I agree, definitely chain looks longer than my FS setup.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

*$110 Paperweight*

Had to replace my GX Eagle after just 5 rides when I pulled in a stick which twisted cage into spokes (see post #694). Was able to stop quickly and avoided wheel damage.

After disassembly and inspection, there were very minor visual ques as to where or how it was twisted. I used hangar alignment tool and verified dropout was in spec (was out a bit). Took cage apart and using a vice I attempted to straighten cage plates where there was a very slight bend at lower pulley shaft area. Re-installed but still way out of whack when shifting to 3 biggest cogs. The chain would still roll right off bottom pulley from misalignment.

New one came in and visual comparison confirmed the old one is twisted but hard to determine exactly where things were off. I did notice the lower cog design was a little different on the new one. It has more ramps on both sides.

Installed and set up per SRAM guidance with no issues...thankfully all is good again.

Pix of old one...looks like new but it's junk:


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

There are SRAM spare parts available for the derailleur cage. Before you throw that derailleur away, you should probably chase them down to see what they cost. You can use it as a spare, because what you describe can happen any time to anyone.


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## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

screamingbunny said:


> Not sure if this has been posted else where but Shmeagle works flawlessly
> 
> View attachment 1178130


How has this been holding up ? Still working for you ?

I have 3 Shimano 11spd derailleurs myself. I guess it doesn't cost me anything to try it, putting Eagle on one of my bikes this weekend.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

ColinL said:


> There are SRAM spare parts available for the derailleur cage. Before you throw that derailleur away, you should probably chase them down to see what they cost. You can use it as a spare, because what you describe can happen any time to anyone.


Ha ha...You kiddin' me...I still have broken bike frames, rims, cassettes, brake discs, etc, kicking around from 15-20 years ago! Won't be throwing a 'gently used' GX Eagle 12 spd derailleur away for at least another 10 years or so!


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

mevnet said:


> More info here in a visual form:


I know I'm replying to an old post, but that video is helpful on a few points.

I've recently started experiencing poor shifting at around gears 8-9 or 9-10. If I fidddle with cable tension I can get it to go away but the problem moves to other gears. I assumed that I may have tweaked my RD with a stick or bush, but it could also be adjustments backing out. I carefully went through and checked limits and B-tension using the SRAM tool, but because I'm on a coil shock, it's not easy for me to do it at sag.

So what I took away from the video is that I can imitate sag by setting the B-tension about 1mm below the line on the SRAM tool, and that since I use an oval chainring, I need to do this with the crank arm at the 4:00 position.

It will be interesting to see if this resolves my problem.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Andeh said:


> I know I'm replying to an old post, but that video is helpful on a few points.
> 
> I've recently started experiencing poor shifting at around gears 8-9 or 9-10. If I fidddle with cable tension I can get it to go away but the problem moves to other gears. I assumed that I may have tweaked my RD with a stick or bush, but it could also be adjustments backing out. I carefully went through and checked limits and B-tension using the SRAM tool, but because I'm on a coil shock, it's not easy for me to do it at sag.
> 
> ...


check your derailleur hanger to make sure it's not tweaked. eagle is more sensitive to this then other and past drive trains.


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## avaddon (Mar 3, 2018)

hi.
i own a merida big.nine 7000 (2015) 
(https://www.merida-bikes.com/en_int/bikes/hardtails/xc-race-marathon/2015/big-nine-7000-2102.html) with 2x10 shimano xt drivetrain and fulcrum red power hp 29 wheels.

want to change to 1х12 sram eagle gx.

so i need: 
- a trigger upgrade kit (https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/sram-gx-eagle-12-speed-trigger-upgrade-kit-648934)
- a freehub xd adapter (https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/fulcrum-adapter-kit-sram-xd-for-red-passion-red-power-hp-257712)
- in the front i remove a derailleur and small chainring, for big use any 104bcd compatible 10-12speed chainring, and add spacer (2-3mm?) for chainline aligment.

-optionally, if i really want sram cranks - change bottom bracket to gxp.

am i correct?


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Found some mud yesterday that wreaked havoc on my Eagle. Mud packed in the chain so tightly it would just fall off the chainring. I was too busy fighting the mud to take good pics, but here's a couple shots after I scraped as much I could off trail side and did the high speed fire road back to the trailhead.
**EDIT** I should clarify this was extremely sticky clay and not mud per se. My buddies with wider chains didn't seem to have nearly as hard a time with chainring retention as I did.


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## niels65 (Jun 11, 2015)

avaddon said:


> hi.
> i own a merida big.nine 7000 (2015)
> (https://www.merida-bikes.com/en_int/bikes/hardtails/xc-race-marathon/2015/big-nine-7000-2102.html) with 2x10 shimano xt drivetrain and fulcrum red power hp 29 wheels.
> 
> ...


It would be the easiest to say - buy a full drivetrain kit - but that said. Xd Adapter, cassette, chain, derailleur, trigger/gripshift. And if you can get the SRAM Eagle chainring to fit on the Shimano spider (could be this one https://www.bike-components.de/de/SRAM/Kettenblatt-X-Sync-2-fuer-X01-XX1-GX-Eagle-104-mm-p55226/) that could do the trick. But if you're not going to swap the complete crankset then be careful with the right thickness of spacers in order to maintain the ideal driveline.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

avaddon said:


> hi.
> i own a merida big.nine 7000 (2015)
> (https://www.merida-bikes.com/en_int/bikes/hardtails/xc-race-marathon/2015/big-nine-7000-2102.html) with 2x10 shimano xt drivetrain and fulcrum red power hp 29 wheels.
> 
> ...


By the time you buy a decent 104 BCD n/w chainring you might as well spend a few bucks extra and get a GX crankset for around $100. What's more, that crankset will come with a DM X-Sync 2 chainring which is arguably better suited to work with the rest of your Eagle drivetrain.


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## jasonp22 (Oct 5, 2016)

farfromovin said:


> Found some mud yesterday that wreaked havoc on my Eagle. Mud packed in the chain so tightly it would just fall off the chainring. I was too busy fighting the mud to take good pics, but here's a couple shots after I scraped as much I could off trail side and did the high speed fire road back to the trailhead


I've had the same issue a few times when caught out in mud. Couldn't handle it at all and wasn't the same until I deep cleaned it.


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## monts (May 24, 2011)

I dropped a muddy eagle chain yesterday as well. Oddly enough it came off the front when i was pedaling up a hill at a slower speed. Stayed on during all of the rowdy sections.


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## NullAndVoid (May 29, 2011)

monts said:


> I dropped a muddy eagle chain yesterday as well. Oddly enough it came off the front when i was pedaling up a hill at a slower speed. Stayed on during all of the rowdy sections.


Had similar issues with narrow wide chains in general, then again the mud round here is a chalk/clay mix which stick and clogs anything.


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## UnpavedAttitude (Jul 29, 2010)

Hi guys. Can someone explain to me if my wheelset is compatible with sram GX eagle? A long story short, I'm building a new bike ( Specialized Chisel), I got frame and wheelset. The wheels are American Classic 29 wide lightning with 11 SPEED cassette Shimano. I'm planning to buy the all Sram GX eagle groupset. Will the cassette 12 speed work with my corrent hub? Thanks


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

italianbike74 said:


> Hi guys. Can someone explain to me if my wheelset is compatible with sram GX eagle? A long story short, I'm building a new bike ( Specialized Chisel), I got frame and wheelset. The wheels are American Classic 29 wide lightning with 11 SPEED cassette Shimano. I'm planning to buy the all Sram GX eagle groupset. Will the cassette 12 speed work with my corrent hub? Thanks


You're going to need to change the cassette body to an XD driver...but it should work.

https://www.modernbike.com/product-...xcNVqZNnQwyJC7x8IN3NdjqTBPYuiTThoCQn8QAvD_BwE


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Newish (half a dozen rides) Eagle GX owner here, in the middle of my ride today I started getting ghost shifting in the middle six gears. When this happened on my old bike it was a bent hanger. The only difference is the Eagle was shifting like two or three gears past the gear I was trying to shift into sometimes. I'm thinking about ordering a derailleur hanger alignment tool and fixing it myself. I figured the tool will pay itself off over time. Anything other than a bent hanger I should look out for?


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

jeremy3220 said:


> Newish (half a dozen rides) Eagle GX owner here, in the middle of my ride today I started getting ghost shifting in the middle six gears. When this happened on my old bike it was a bent hanger. The only difference is the Eagle was shifting like two or three gears past the gear I was trying to shift into sometimes. I'm thinking about ordering a derailleur hanger alignment tool and fixing it myself. I figured the tool will pay itself off over time. Anything other than a bent hanger I should look out for?


B gap... on my *epic* clay ride that jacked my drivetrain up, it was ghost shifting, double shifting, etc... the clay had moved my derailleur off the tab where the b gap screw hits.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jeremy3220 said:


> Anything other than a bent hanger I should look out for?


Yep, all of the stupid stuff. It sounds simple, but I've ran into many situations where the cassette was loose, the dropout was loose, the derailleur itself was loose (bolt), and so on. Sometimes when you have it cinched together with the axle/clamp, it's not obvious, but pay close attention and go over each and every detail of the drivetrain, take the wheel out, make sure everything is good.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

farfromovin said:


> B gap... on my *epic* clay ride that jacked my drivetrain up, it was ghost shifting, double shifting, etc... the clay had moved my derailleur off the tab where the b gap screw hits.


Thanks, the b screw appears to be sitting on the tab just fine. I don't even know what I hit today. I got the alignment tool on order.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Jayem said:


> Yep, all of the stupid stuff. It sounds simple, but I've ran into many situations where the cassette was loose, the dropout was loose, the derailleur itself was loose (bolt), and so on. Sometimes when you have it cinched together with the axle/clamp, it's not obvious, but pay close attention and go over each and every detail of the drivetrain, take the wheel out, make sure everything is good.


Thanks, I'll give it a look over. I did already check to make sure the hanger and derailleur weren't loose though.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Anybody that rides hard having long term success with the gx derailleur?

I'm about to build my first eagle equipped bike. After reading this thread I'm wondering if I should sell off the gx derailleur while it's new and get an xo1?


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## gorgebiker (Jan 26, 2015)

Riding GX for 8 months, 5 times per week in Arizona red rock. No problem at all. The drive train is more sensitive to adjustments but that has nothing to do with GX. It is a 12 speed issue. I did upgrade to a better shifter only because of thumb arthritis. Would not spend the money on an upgraded derailleur


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

WHALENARD said:


> After reading this thread I'm wondering if I should sell off the gx derailleur while it's new and get an xo1?


No point in that. Virtually no weight difference. If the bike has the gx cassette upgrade that. It's a 3-4 ounce difference between that and the xo1.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

I noticed a slight shifting "feel" improvement when upgrading the GX shifter and GX cassette to X01. The other parts (chain, derailleur) didn't make any difference.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

jeremy3220 said:


> Newish (half a dozen rides) Eagle GX owner here, in the middle of my ride today I started getting ghost shifting in the middle six gears. When this happened on my old bike it was a bent hanger. The only difference is the Eagle was shifting like two or three gears past the gear I was trying to shift into sometimes. I'm thinking about ordering a derailleur hanger alignment tool and fixing it myself. I figured the tool will pay itself off over time. Anything other than a bent hanger I should look out for?


Just did that myself after replacing trashed rear der...went with the Park Tool DAG2.2. I think Amazon had best price I could find at like $70. Park has good vids on proper alignment. Also, assume you saw SRAM video's on how to properly set up Eagle. There's a few little nuggets there as well for Hi/Low stop setting and B Gap adj.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

sturge said:


> Just did that myself after replacing trashed rear der...went with the Park Tool DAG2.2. I think Amazon had best price I could find at like $70. Park has good vids on proper alignment. Also, assume you saw SRAM video's on how to properly set up Eagle. There's a few little nuggets there as well for Hi/Low stop setting and B Gap adj.


I actually ordered the same Park tool and Sram B gap gauge from Amazon. I watched the Sram installation video and it seems pretty straight forward. What happened to your derailleur?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I have a PF92 frame shell and want to mount XX1 Eagle Crankset into it. Is this combo even supported? Is it advisable or a bad idea? Ideally I'd like a thread-together BB but I'm guessing nothing that goes into a PF92 shell will work well with the BB30 cranks.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

svinyard said:


> I have a PF92 frame shell and want to mount XX1 Eagle Crankset into it. Is this combo even supported? Is it advisable or a bad idea? Ideally I'd like a thread-together BB but I'm guessing nothing that goes into a PF92 shell will work well with the BB30 cranks.


I believe that you will need a bb86/92 to bb30 conversion kit. I would buy one from wheels mfg. https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-bracke...row-pressfit-86-92-abec-3-bottom-bracket.html

Fwiw, I have a bb92 bike with a gxp crankset and I used the wheels mfg thread together bottom bracket. I absolutely love the bottom bracket overall and I think it's a must have for any press fit bike with pf86/92 standards. I have no experience with the above linked 86/92 to bb30 conversion, but Wheels MFG parts are amazing and I've never heard any complaints.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

svinyard said:


> I have a PF92 frame shell and want to mount XX1 Eagle Crankset into it. Is this combo even supported? Is it advisable or a bad idea? Ideally I'd like a thread-together BB but I'm guessing nothing that goes into a PF92 shell will work well with the BB30 cranks.


if you still can I think it's worth going with a gxp so you can use thread together BBs instead of pure press fit BBs


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

svinyard said:


> I have a PF92 frame shell and want to mount XX1 Eagle Crankset into it. Is this combo even supported? Is it advisable or a bad idea? Ideally I'd like a thread-together BB but I'm guessing nothing that goes into a PF92 shell will work well with the BB30 cranks.


Do you have the crank yet?

It's one of the reason sram developed their DUB stuff.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

jeremy3220 said:


> I actually ordered the same Park tool and Sram B gap gauge from Amazon. I watched the Sram installation video and it seems pretty straight forward. What happened to your derailleur?


See Post #729. Pulled in a stick that yanked cage into spokes (5th ride!).


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

TwoTone said:


> Do you have the crank yet?
> 
> It's one of the reason sram developed their DUB stuff.


Thanks everyone for the help. I don't have the cranks or the BB yet. Had a potential deal on a take-off set but it's not looking good that it'll work. I feel strongly about the thread-together fit on my press fit RM Instinct so prob not going to happen.

I wish SRAM would also do a thread together BB for the press fit 92 shells. It's confusing today, I see why they want to "systemize" everything into one. Would make it easy assuming the BB is a high end option.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

svinyard said:


> I have a PF92 frame shell and want to mount XX1 Eagle Crankset into it. Is this combo even supported? Is it advisable or a bad idea? Ideally I'd like a thread-together BB but I'm guessing nothing that goes into a PF92 shell will work well with the BB30 cranks.


Get this. It's a thread-together BB86/92 bottom bracket that'll let you use GXP cranks. I use the PF30 version on my SC Stigmata and my wife's Niner RLT9 and it's fantastic. I prefer GXP to BB30 cranks because you don't have to faff around with bearing pre-load adjustment -- GXP crankset installation is as foolproof as it gets.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Schwa72 said:


> Get this.


Careful, you linked to the straight 24mm version for shimano cranks. That wont fit GXP. Youll need the stepped 24/22 version for GXP. https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-92-outboard-abec-3-bb-for-24-22mm-sram-cranks-black.html

I'm running this BB and have been extremely happy with it so far.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

GuitsBoy said:


> Careful, you linked to the straight 24mm version for shimano cranks. That wont fit GXP. Youll need the stepped 24/22 version for GXP. https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-92-outboard-abec-3-bb-for-24-22mm-sram-cranks-black.html
> 
> I'm running this BB and have been extremely happy with it so far.


Oops, my bad! I fixed the link. FWIW I have one straight 24mm version and one stepped SRAM version (both in the PF30 variety) and they've both been great.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

This may help, svinyard. The crankset discussion starts at about 2:30


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

jeremy3220 said:


> Newish (half a dozen rides) Eagle GX owner here, in the middle of my ride today I started getting ghost shifting in the middle six gears. When this happened on my old bike it was a bent hanger. The only difference is the Eagle was shifting like two or three gears past the gear I was trying to shift into sometimes. I'm thinking about ordering a derailleur hanger alignment tool and fixing it myself. I figured the tool will pay itself off over time. Anything other than a bent hanger I should look out for?


Update: The hanger was fine but had to adjust the b screw. It shifts great now. The only issue is that the shifter takes about twice the effort to press the levers when shifting in and out of the lowest gear. It goes into gear just fine and there's no noise, it's just the levers are harder to press. It's not difficult to press, just noticably stiffer than shifting in the other gears. Maybe it's normal and I just don't remember it being that hard before?


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

Spare Parts:

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...ites/default/files/techdocs/sram_spc_revc.pdf

11.7518.086.000 REAR DERAILLEUR B-BOLT AND LIMIT SCREW KIT 
11.7518.087.000 GX EAGLE HEX5 REAR DERAILLEUR PULLEY AND INNER CAGE 
11.7518.089.000 GX EAGLE X-SYNC REAR DERAILLEUR PULLEY KIT 
11.7518.082.000 GX EAGLE REAR DERAILLEUR CHAINGAP ADJUSTMENT GAGE XX1/X01 EAGLE


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## pemberton325 (May 13, 2009)

So, I just purchased a used Trek 9.8SL with aN XO shifter and an X01 rear derailleur. I am contemplating purchasing a GX eagle group set but I wanted to get your thaughts on if it would be worth it. I have a carbon crank so all I need to do is swap the chain ring. I should save some weight there. But do you think adding the GX eagle would add a bunch of weight to the bike?

I think the only thing heavier is the cassette. 

Anyways, what would you do? Keep the X0/X01 11 speed or go with GX eagle?


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

*depends...*

Hello! there is no 100% percent certain answer to your question, so the correct answer will be "it depends"&#8230;Based on my experience, I'll suggest following theses steps to decide:

First: understanding basics.
In relation to 1x11, the eagle only helps on climbing so decision must be based on your skill and enjoyment of climbing.
In relation to weight, unless you are competing at a pro level, a few hundred grams won't make a real difference.
1x12 is certainly a fine adjustment dependable transmission, less straightforward in terms of set up compared to your stock 1x11. This means that miss adjustments, cable wear and external elements tend to provoke big problems on the 1x12 rather than just a sound or a slight problem as a 1x11 or 1x10.

so how would I decide: first ask yourself these questions:
1- Climbing:
Do you like and do a lot of climbing on your typical weekend, weekly, daily trip/races.
Are those climbs steep enough so that most/sometimes even on the 11th cog I need to dismount and walk?
Do you do a lot of long lasting trips/races with big altitude differences where you could save some energy on long climbs by using the lower gear?
2- Adjustment
Do you mind having to be worried about the transmission adjustment and understanding tunning at least every 4 or 5 trips?
Do I understand the eagle setup video, in terms of barrel adjustment and the b-gap tool?
Do you like to tune your bike, and understand how to adjust the high and low limits and b screw?

If none of these questions was an immediate "yes"&#8230;then keep your money, buy yourself something else, save and enjoy your bike.
If on the climbing questions you answer 1 or 2 with a yes, then move to the adjustment part and if you answer yes on a couple of questions or at least have the willingness to learn then I will consider buying. It's not too difficult to learn though.

Look around the forum and you will see that Eagle is sort of a hate or love transmission. Some love it and some hate it. I'm a lover, and in my opinion, most of the haters are people who don't like to be worried about tuning or have received a defective part but they can only realize that because the understand about tunning.

If you still worry about weight and have a few more bucks to spend, go for the X01 or XX1 cassettes which are lighter.

Here is a DIY you help you through the process.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

Eagle doesn't necessarily only help on climbing. I went from a 30t front with 42-10 11sp to 32t front with 50-10 Eagle. So I got a slightly easier granny gear, and all my other gears became slightly harder (for descending).


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

you are right, I was not considering a chainring change as you did.


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## pemberton325 (May 13, 2009)

I live in Italy so climbing is all there is. I have no issues climbing with my 11 speed. Right now I am running a 10-42 cassette with a 32 chain ring. If I went with eagle, I would change to a 34 chain ring.

I know you say 209 grams doesn’t matter, but to me it does.

I do not mind adjusting my bike, I like to do all my own maintenance.

I was thinking of getting the XO1 cassette and I already have the x01 carbon crank.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

I saw this thread and remembered posting around the middle of last year that I was less than jubilant about my X01 Eagle setup performance. Since that time, I began to attack the setup with military-precision measurements (****-hair) and see what I could achieve. Things are better now, with only the occasional indexing bang on the 42 and 50. It's smoother, faster, and better than it was, but still not perfect and definitely not set-and-forget. I'm beginning to think some of the issues are actually caused by the compliant flex of my hardtail Ti frame.

Enter my second Eagle bike, a full squish with GX. If anything, this has been better performing than my X01 install. It's pretty much spot-on 95% of the time and I haven't had to screw about with it very much. Then again there is no flex in the rear triangle like there is on my other bike, so I think that contributes to keeping things happy. 

All of this leads me to believe that the old adage is true, 'there is no such thing as a free lunch'. I love the 50t for nasty climbs, especially at the end of the day, but it's temperamental if you just like to ride and not worry too much about your build. 11-speed has the worry-free thing covered in ways 12-speed never will. I also honestly feel rear triangle flex/compliance such as my Ti bike exhibits, combined with 12-speed, makes for somewhat disagreeable bedfellows. If I had to do it again, I'm not sure whether I'd go 11 or 12 speed. Both have their charms and faults.


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## pipots (May 18, 2017)

Hello again Pemberton32, if climbing is important and a few grams do matter for your riding, then I guess you take MTB seriously, probably competing. Also, if you like doing your own tuning, then you are a good Eagle candidate. So for the final decision, I'll focus on 2 of the climbing questions:
Do you usually dismount and have to walk due to steep and/or long climbs? Do you feel that you could save some energy on long climbs by using the lower gear?

If both these questions have never been a problem, maybe just go for a 30 chainring or a oneup 44 large cog replacement and save on budget and maintenance. Some people even feel that 50T is too low, so they lose power and the front wheel hops on climbs.

From my experience and a few guys on my riding group that have the eagle, the best usages are:
- When you don't want to push hard due to lack of fitness, fatigue or want to save energy for a long ride.
- You are dismounting a lot on medium to long steep climbing sections, due to running out of energy or breathe.
- You are pushing hard on a steep climb and there is a steeper and/or technical section where a lower gear could give you an extra help.
- You are pushing hard on a race or trying to beat your time and you need to do some active fatigue control to allow you to get to the top on a climb.

hope this helps.

PS: while I was writing this post, in came a great post by BadgerOne on tuning concerns on 1x12 vs 1x11.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

pemberton325 said:


> I live in Italy so climbing is all there is. I have no issues climbing with my 11 speed. Right now I am running a 10-42 cassette with a 32 chain ring. If I went with eagle, I would change to a 34 chain ring.
> 
> I know you say 209 grams doesn't matter, but to me it does.
> 
> ...


You could always go with the the e13 9-46 11-speed cassette and you wouldn't even have to change out your chainring and you'd get more range on the top and the bottom.


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## pemberton325 (May 13, 2009)

Thanks all! Pilots, yes I do race quite a bit. As for the climbs, I have no issues climbing with the 11 speed. Right now I have a 32 front chain ring with a 10-42 cassette. The 42 tooth is my granny/bail out gear. I don’t need it mostly except extreme climbs.

The only climbs I have to walk/hike up are the ones to technical for me. An extra gear wouldn’t matter. In a race, I don’t think I have ever walked up a climb.

If I did get the Eagle, I would be getting it for the Bling factor, performance and top end speed. Not climbing. 

I appreciate eveones thaughts and feed back, I will continue to read the thread to help me make my decision. 

I have also contemplated getting the XO1 eagle, but I am not sure if the price difference is worth it.


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## phalkon30 (Jan 17, 2009)

Gotta agree on the love hate thing. I hated my eagle GX coming from the sloppy reliability of a 3x9. The gx chain and cassette were replaced under warranty and now I love it! 6 months riding without anything but chain lube, not a single adjustment and absolutely crisp shifting.

I imagine once I ding something up in a minor crash I'll go back to hating it... But it's sweet when it works!


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## pemberton325 (May 13, 2009)

I found a good deal on XX1 11 speed so I decided to go that route. Way lighter and right now I don’t need 12 gears.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

*Has Your Eagle Been a Debris Magnet Compared to Previous Systems?*



sturge said:


> Had to replace my GX Eagle after just 5 rides when I pulled in a stick which twisted cage into spokes (see post #694). Was able to stop quickly and avoided wheel damage.
> 
> After disassembly and inspection, there were very minor visual ques as to where or how it was twisted. I used hangar alignment tool and verified dropout was in spec (was out a bit). Took cage apart and using a vice I attempted to straighten cage plates where there was a very slight bend at lower pulley shaft area. Re-installed but still way out of whack when shifting to 3 biggest cogs. The chain would still roll right off bottom pulley from misalignment.
> 
> ...


Since above replacement of a barely used but trashed derailleur I have put in about a dozen rides. Everything is set up per SRAM web guidance, I aligned hangar, set 'B' gap, hi/lo stops, etc....performs flawlessly on the new Kona. I absolutely LOVE this 1X system, the crisp shifting, the range of gearing available, and no front derailleur to deal with.

BUT....I am convinced this system is going to be short lived for me because of how easily it draws debris into the lower jockey wheel and what happens when the jockey wheel gets jammed. The lower part of derailleur is much closer to the ground than any of my previous bikes (all Shimano). I've had numerous events where a small stick pulled into it and caused jamming of the jockey wheel. I quickly stop when I hear it but 3-4 times I found the cage was pulled inward until the inner leading edge of the lower cage snags on a spoke. I have to forcefully pry the spoke out from between the jockey wheel and the inner side of cage. So far I've avoided another twisted derailleur and everything still performs great but I predict my future has another $110 Eagle derailleur getting trashed.

I realize many don't deal with trails with lots of debris but New England single track riding can't be the only place full of small sticks and debris (especially in spring). I've ridden the same type of terrain for 30 years and could count on one hand how many times debris resulted in a trashed derailleur but I have been through a few hangars. And I can't ever remember my derailleur being pulled into my spokes.

Has anyone else had similar issues?
Have the debris gods just decided to pick on me?


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## TrialsCartel (May 5, 2016)

*UPDATE on my Eagle RDs*

-My two snapped GX 12 speed RDs (cages and upper pulley) were fixed by SRAM under warranty claim

-Every week more and more GX cage failure. Last 3 week 2 Giant Reings and 1 SC Nomad. All while going down and trying to pedal, upper pulley snaps cage.....

-My Slash still working perfectly, all 12 gears, with my 11speed X01 RD (have trained LOTS, competed 2 enduros including mud fest EWS Manizales)

IMO the need for such a fine adjustment on these 12 speed RDs is a flaw for Enduro type MTB making all these RDs fail. My 12 speed cassette + 11 speed RD works perfectly, 0 adjustments are made, just cleaning, it is the way to go....


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

I wish I knew earlier that an 11 spd rd would work, but it's nice to know that option is there if I break my eagle one. I love when people figure these things out, much to the chagrin of srams marketing department. Remember when they said the ONLY eagle part that would work with anything else is the front chainrings? Lol


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

I've not read all of this, but have a question regarding chainline: Anyone know approximately which cassette cog the front ring should line up with? Or in general if the chainring should be lined up with the middle of the cassette?

Friend just got a Banshee Prime and is having a few issues. After setting the proper b-screw gap with the bike sagged, things are better. But the chainring is biased to the smaller cogs. Chainline to the big cog looks awful to me, but maybe that is normal. The bike is boost and has a stock GX boost crankset.

Side note: Another friend got the same bike but with SRAM 11-speed. I set it up in 10 minutes, and it has been flawless for almost a year now.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

JACKL said:


> I've not read all of this, but have a question regarding chainline: Anyone know approximately which cassette cog the front ring should line up with? Or in general if the chainring should be lined up with the middle of the cassette?
> 
> Friend just got a Banshee Prime and is having a few issues. After setting the proper b-screw gap with the bike sagged, things are better. But the chainring is biased to the smaller cogs. Chainline to the big cog looks awful to me, but maybe that is normal. The bike is boost and has a stock GX boost crankset.
> 
> Side note: Another friend got the same bike but with SRAM 11-speed. I set it up in 10 minutes, and it has been flawless for almost a year now.


On my new Kona the chainline is lined up with middle of rear GX12 cassette. At about 6th gear in from smallest cog. Even with that the offset when shifting to big 50T gear looks crazy to me but it shifts smoothly and have not had any problems (except my recent stick/RD damage issue described in previous posts). I would be concerned with your buddies setup if it's the way you describe it. Have you verified hangar is in alignment?


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

JACKL said:


> I've not read all of this, but have a question regarding chainline: Anyone know approximately which cassette cog the front ring should line up with? Or in general if the chainring should be lined up with the middle of the cassette?
> 
> Friend just got a Banshee Prime and is having a few issues. After setting the proper b-screw gap with the bike sagged, things are better. But the chainring is biased to the smaller cogs. Chainline to the big cog looks awful to me, but maybe that is normal. The bike is boost and has a stock GX boost crankset.
> 
> Side note: Another friend got the same bike but with SRAM 11-speed. I set it up in 10 minutes, and it has been flawless for almost a year now.


I have three Eagle bikes (one boost, two regular) and the chainline on all of them seems to be best between the fifth and sixth smallest cogs. So, yeah, the chainline IME seems to be offset a little bit toward the smaller cogs.

If you think about it this makes sense. As close together as the cogs are, if the chainline were offset too much toward the larger cogs, the chain would be at pretty extreme angles when in the smaller cogs and when in a given small cog it'd be more likely to rub on the next bigger one.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Non boost bike use a 49mm chain line and boost bikes use a 52mm.
A perfect setup would be dead center of the cassette, but in reality all are offset towards the small rings. This is because the approach angle of the chain can snag on the 2nd smallest cog and mess with shifting proformance. This is not a problem on the big end of the cassette as the smaller gears are not in the chains path.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Thanks all, I'll check and see where the chain falls on the cassette next time I see the bike. Sounds like it is probably fine and just needs a careful setup by the book.


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## TrialsCartel (May 5, 2016)

TrialsCartel said:


> -My two snapped GX 12 speed RDs (cages and upper pulley) were fixed by SRAM under warranty claim
> 
> -Every week more and more GX cage failure. Last 3 week 2 Giant Reings and 1 SC Nomad. All while going down and trying to pedal, upper pulley snaps cage.....
> 
> ...


Todays group ride we saw yet another Eagle GX RD snap the inner cage (upper pulley failure), this time a 2018 Devinci Spartan....yet again while going down and trying to pedal....


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

So XX1 and XO1 pulley/cage is built of a different material?


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## TrialsCartel (May 5, 2016)

WHALENARD said:


> So XX1 and XO1 pulley/cage is built of a different material?


 Could be...or maybe just a lot more GXs around making the problem more visible on those...I also predict is something more prone to happen while riding "enduro" as opposed to XC, as the snapping always happens during a pedal sprint going down after a rough bit.....(rough bit misaligns chain off pulley, one pedals hard to jump or gain speed...and snap)


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

TrialsCartel said:


> Could be...or maybe just a lot more GXs around making the problem more visible on those...I also predict is something more prone to happen while riding "enduro" as opposed to XC, as the snapping always happens during a pedal sprint going down after a rough bit.....(rough bit misaligns chain off pulley, one pedals hard to jump or gain speed...and snap)


Have you ever seen/heard of this happening on a hardtail?


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Apologies if this is old news, but according to a Fezzari new bike PR, there will be a lower cost Eagle (below GX). It's in the Comp bike spec: https://www.bikerumor.com/2018/04/1...to-fast-fun-in-120mm-carbon-xc-mountain-bike/


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## gomeralex (Oct 23, 2015)

Thanks for sharing the link


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

sturge said:


> Has anyone else had similar issues?
> Have the debris gods just decided to pick on me?


Yes, same issue here. Little sticks love to jam between my lower pulley and chain, has happened multiple times since I went Eagle.

Totally ruined my race this weekend. Stick wedged, I jammed on the brakes, yanked it out, shifting all out of whack, 2 miles later broke the chain. Very frustrating

GX chain and GX RD on X01 cassette for reference


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

I just noticed the clutch housing portion of the GX RD is plastic.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

I can't seem to keep my GX in adjustment. Every 2-4 rides I've had to adjust the hanger and/or B screw and this last time I couldn't get it to index properly and just took it to my LBS. I'm starting to have my doubts about this system after having to constantly readjust it since I got the bike, while I haven't had to touch the SLX drivetrain on my old bike this entire time.

I'll report back when I hear from the LBS, it is possible I just suck at fixing my drivetrain.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Well...I had some tough luck and trashed mine 5 rides in (See post #778) but I've been trouble free for a couple hundred miles since then. I'm in NE where many spring rides still have wetspots and muck here and there so my drivetrain has not been babied by any means. I keep it lubed but have not had to mess with adjustments since replacing derailleur 6 weeks ago. There's usually debris all over the single track I ride so I still freak and lock everything up whenever I hear a stick/noise from rear end!

If I trash another GX12 I'm going to look into the older model 11spd derailleur which some say still works with the 12spd cassette and shifters and is more reliable.


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## jasonp22 (Oct 5, 2016)

jeremy3220 said:


> I can't seem to keep my GX in adjustment. Every 2-4 rides I've had to adjust the hanger and/or B screw and this last time I couldn't get it to index properly and just took it to my LBS. I'm starting to have my doubts about this system after having to constantly readjust it since I got the bike, while I haven't had to touch the SLX drivetrain on my old bike this entire time.
> 
> I'll report back when I hear from the LBS, it is possible I just suck at fixing my drivetrain.


Unfortunately, I have the same issue. Shifting is screwed after a few rides, then I have to make adjustments to b-screw and barrel that again lasts a few rides, rinse, repeat. Replaced the hanger a few times already in 5 months too. If I hammer the pedals (think standing climb), the drivetrain seems to get worse quicker with noise and jumping gears. I'm starting to wonder if maybe the b-screw is backing itself out? Perhaps I'll take a measurement after my next adjustment. I'll be curious as to what your LBS thinks. Never had to touch the drivetrains on my 2 older bikes outside of lubing and regular annual maintenance.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

I know people are putting on new hangers for shift issues, is everybody verifying they are straight? New doesn’t mean anything other than “different” when it comes to hangers. I have relatively small experience, just a few bikes, but most hangers aren’t straight when new.
A co worker just got a GX Eagle bike and was complaining about the poor shift quality out of the box. Told him the B screw adjustment is critical, and loaned him a Park hanger alignment tool. He’s stoked now at the shift quality.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

farfromovin said:


> I know people are putting on new hangers for shift issues, is everybody verifying they are straight? New doesn't mean anything other than "different" when it comes to hangers. I have relatively small experience, just a few bikes, but most hangers aren't straight when new.
> A co worker just got a GX Eagle bike and was complaining about the poor shift quality out of the box. Told him the B screw adjustment is critical, and loaned him a Park hanger alignment tool. He's stoked now at the shift quality.


I've mentioned in several posts that a hanger alignment tools needs to be one of your first tools, people laugh at that.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> I've mentioned in several posts that a hanger alignment tools needs to be one of your first tools, people laugh at that.


This!!! 1000 times. If you're adjusting your hanger by eyeball your shifting will be **** no matter how many times you do it.

Bike shops rarely check new bikes hanger alignment.
New bikes never have straight hangers.
New hangers are never straight.
If you own a mountain bike you should own an alignment tool.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

sturge said:


> Well...I had some tough luck and trashed mine 5 rides in (See post #778) but I've been trouble free for a couple hundred miles since then. I'm in NE where many spring rides still have wetspots and muck here and there so my drivetrain has not been babied by any means. I keep it lubed but have not had to mess with adjustments since replacing derailleur 6 weeks ago. There's usually debris all over the single track I ride so I still freak and lock everything up whenever I hear a stick/noise from rear end!
> 
> If I trash another GX12 I'm going to look into the older model 11spd derailleur which some say still works with the 12spd cassette and shifters and is more reliable.


I spent $70 on Park alignment tool to align hangar...then I dropped $110 on a confirmed bad derailleur! Everything good since then.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

jasonp22 said:


> If I hammer the pedals (think standing climb), the drivetrain seems to get worse quicker with noise and jumping gears. I'm starting to wonder if maybe the b-screw is backing itself out? Perhaps I'll take a measurement after my next adjustment. I'll be curious as to what your LBS thinks.


I just got it back from the shop. Surprisingly it was a worn chain. I've only had it since the end of February and ridden it maybe a dozen times. My other bike with an SLX drivetrain has way more miles on the chain. I'll try switching chain lubes this time.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

My Eagle XO1 recently had an issue where the B screw came out of adjustment and I had to set it with the Sram tool. It's very sensitive to this adjustment. This is after 800 miles/7 mos.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

jeremy3220 said:


> I just got it back from the shop. Surprisingly it was a worn chain. I've only had it since the end of February and ridden it maybe a dozen times. My other bike with an SLX drivetrain has way more miles on the chain. I'll try switching chain lubes this time.


800 miles on my Eagle chain and not even hitting the 0.5 mark on the Park Tool chain checker. What are doing to that chain?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Wow...congrats on solving the issue. I'm on original chain with about 400 miles...guess I should start monitoring stretch. I deal with a fair amount of muck where I ride during spring which is always tough on drivetrain. I don't clean it as much as I should but I do lube the hell out of it before every ride. For years I've used Liquid Wrench chain/cable lube from auto parts store (big squirt can for $5).


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

TiGeo said:


> 800 miles on my Eagle chain and not even hitting the 0.5 mark on the Park Tool chain checker. What are doing to that chain?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Beats me, I thought my mechanic was messing with me at first. Maybe the chain had some defect. He said it wasn't quite to the 0.5 mark yet but he's worked on a few 12 and 11 speed systems that needed the chain replaced before 0.5.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

If your chain was bad then there is a good chance the cassette has accelerated wear as well. A worn cassette will fubar a chain in short order.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

I'm having poor shifting in approximately the 4th from highest gear (4th smallest cog), and only in that and 1 other adjacent cog. I've checked my hanger with the Park DAG and it's fine. I've repeatedly checked B-tension with the SRAM tool, setting both exactly to the mark and ~1mm below (as some posts here have suggested to compensate for sag). I just replaced the cassette, because I have my original one in to SRAM for warranty (1 of the teeth on the 50 snapped after 400 miles).

Any thoughts on what this might be? I'm guessing potentially bent derailleur? 

I know I've snagged some grass/brush at high speeds a few times. I'm using a GX RD FWIW. My older cassette that's at SRAM right now showed very little wear on the bigger cogs and a moderate amount in the 5-10 gear range. I've had the local mechanic check also, and he thinks it's set fine, since it shifts perfectly on the stand.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Andeh said:


> I'm having poor shifting in approximately the 4th from highest gear (4th smallest cog), and only in that and 1 other adjacent cog. I've checked my hanger with the Park DAG and it's fine. I've repeatedly checked B-tension with the SRAM tool, setting both exactly to the mark and ~1mm below (as some posts here have suggested to compensate for sag). I just replaced the cassette, because I have my original one in to SRAM for warranty (1 of the teeth on the 50 snapped after 400 miles).
> 
> Any thoughts on what this might be? I'm guessing potentially bent derailleur?
> 
> I know I've snagged some grass/brush at high speeds a few times. I'm using a GX RD FWIW. My older cassette that's at SRAM right now showed very little wear on the bigger cogs and a moderate amount in the 5-10 gear range. I've had the local mechanic check also, and he thinks it's set fine, since it shifts perfectly on the stand.


The hanger needs to be aligned very well. Try to align it perfectly to where you can't even distinguish variance between positions. Also check your chain wear. If it's over .3 you might need to replace it.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

jeremy3220 said:


> The hanger needs to be aligned very well. Try to align it perfectly to where you can't even distinguish variance between positions. Also check your chain wear. If it's over .3 you might need to replace it.


OK I'll give that a shot. From what I recall, I straightened it out a bit but there was still a tiny bit of pressure on some parts of my rim compared to others - I figured that was no big deal. I'll check chain too, even though it should be fine at only 400 miles, if it was rubbing maybe it did wear out.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Andeh said:


> OK I'll give that a shot. From what I recall, I straightened it out a bit but there was still a tiny bit of pressure on some parts of my rim compared to others - I figured that was no big deal. I'll check chain too, even though it should be fine at only 400 miles, if it was rubbing maybe it did wear out.


See my posts above. I just had to replace my chain with fewer miles than that on it.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Good grief. 0.3? My gauge starts at 0.5. Not sure I buy that tiny bit makes f all of difference.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

Starting with 11 speed the recommendation for chain replacement is .5
I would say Eagle is no different. 
For 12 speed that B-gap adjustment has to be precise. With a GX drivetrain and X01 shifter shifting is precise and quick but drivetrain overall is not as smooth as the 11 speed before it.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

So far eagle has been stellar for me. Adjustments have to be precise but wouldn't say that makes it finicky or difficult to dial in. The extra range allows for a larger front ring which equals a better chainline in the "business" gears. I have found this aspect VERY noticeable coming from a 28t front ring.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

TiGeo said:


> Good grief. 0.3? My gauge starts at 0.5. Not sure I buy that tiny bit makes f all of difference.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I don't have any reason to not believe my mechanic. He didn't even charge me labor, just the 28 bucks for the chain. Now there might be some other less obvious issue with the derailleur but replacing the chain fixed the shifting.


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## gorgebiker (Jan 26, 2015)

I have found the most consistent problem to be cable and housing issues. If the cables are not running very smoothly all is off. The least bit of dirt or kink in the system ruins everything


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Is the 12 speed sram powerlink reusable or is it toast once you separate it?


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## HSracer (Jun 30, 2013)

jeremy3220 said:


> Is the 12 speed sram powerlink reusable or is it toast once you separate it?


I reconnected one that was on a demo bike upside-down. Not sure if you're supposed to (I'm pretty certain SRAM would say no), but it didn't give me any problems for the rest of the week I had the bike.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

HSracer said:


> I reconnected one that was on a demo bike upside-down. Not sure if you're supposed to (I'm pretty certain SRAM would say no), but it didn't give me any problems for the rest of the week I had the bike.


I'm surprised that it didn't cause issues upside-down...it's curved to follow contour of gearing. Why not remove and re-install correctly?

As to question regarding re-use...I would re-use it. Re-used older 9 and 10 spd powerlinks many times over the years. Just clean it and inspect to verify no obvious problems before reinstalling.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Thanks, I didn't really want to waste a powerlink to take the chain off for cleaning.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

My personal experience is that quick links can be used for the life of the chain. They seem to wear out at the same rate so installin a new on on an older chain might even be worse. I clean my chain off the bike every other month, so at least 6 to 8 times over the past year.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I just installed a GX Eagle drivetrain on a friend's first gen Krampus last night. I straightened the derailleur hanger. ONLY issue I had was with the cassette. It's a Sunrace 11-50. Since the early Krampus uses a 135mm hub and a 50mm rim, the spokes don't have a lot of angle to them. The 50 tooth was just touching the spokes. Wouldn't be an issue on my newer one with Boost and 40mm rims. 
Anyway, I only had a fat cassette spacer and it pushed it out too far. Getting a couple of 1mm spacers later to dial it in. Bike should be awesome after that.


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## TTUB (Nov 9, 2010)

Just converted my wife's older Top Fuel to Eagle. With a good understanding of the typical issues... critical B screw adjustment and hanger alignment... it was very easy.

I went with full GX but with a X01 cassette to save a bunch of weight.

The only snafu was that I accidentally lost my grip on the old shifter cable and it slipped out of the frame. I had to reroute the new one 'from scratch'. I couldn't get the shifting adjusted just right... I surmised that the only thing likely was that when I rerouted the new cable, it must have wrapped around the brake line inside the frame. I re-did the new cable with a bit more care and all problems were solved!

Great system!


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## m3the01 (Aug 11, 2008)

Recommendations on replacement shift cable for xx1? The stock cable, black 1.1mm cable was amazing. However, I replaced for new bike with high-end PTFE Shimano xtr 1.2mm cables and the coating came off near the wheel on the derailleur and shifting sucked after 2 rides... Look like tons of fine hairs. I replaced once more and same thing so no more xtr PTFE.

I've heard the Shimano optislick, 1.2mm, is much stronger and won't come off. Likewise, the jagwire elite ultra slick 1.1mm is amazing but very expensive.

I'm using sp41 housing, brand new. I also tried the low end Shimano and wasnt as smooth,


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I use Jagwire ripcord housing and these plain stainless inners that I buy in bulk on Ebay. I recently started adding Rock N Roll Lube's Cable Magic when I make the cable. Works like a charm.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Optislick is the best I've used. Pair it with sp41


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

jeremy3220 said:


> I can't seem to keep my GX in adjustment. Every 2-4 rides I've had to adjust the hanger and/or B screw and this last time I couldn't get it to index properly and just took it to my LBS. I'm starting to have my doubts about this system after having to constantly readjust it since I got the bike, while I haven't had to touch the SLX drivetrain on my old bike this entire time.


I'm still having issues. After I got it back from the LBS it was making noise again after 3-4 rides. I checked the hanger alignment which was perfect, checked the B gap which was dead on and it still won't index properly across the range. It's borderline ok right now. It's not ghost shifting but it's making noise from the chain hitting adjacent cogs. On the low gears the alignment is biased toward the low side, on the high gears it's biased to the high side. Could it be a defective shifter?


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## gorgebiker (Jan 26, 2015)

The system seems to be very sensitive to bad cable or cable housing. I had the same problem with the same results after bringing it into the shop. This occurred on two occasions. Both times I finally changed the cable and housing with complete and lasting resolution of the problem. It is worth a try


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

gorgebiker said:


> The system seems to be very sensitive to bad cable or cable housing. I had the same problem with the same results after bringing it into the shop. This occurred on two occasions. Both times I finally changed the cable and housing with complete and lasting resolution of the problem. It is worth a try


Sorry if you mentioned it before but what cable and housing did you go with?


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## kave (Jan 7, 2013)

I have been using XX1 11spd on a hardtail since 2014. I got a new bike last november with GX Eagle. I was never happy with how the gearing worked. Now I have XX1 Eagle and that works much better. I am totally happy with how it functions now and I can really recommed upgrading, especially a GX cassette to a X01 or XX1 will make a difference.


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

kave said:


> I have been using XX1 11spd on a hardtail since 2014. I got a new bike last november with GX Eagle. I was never happy with how the gearing worked. Now I have XX1 Eagle and that works much better. I am totally happy with how it functions now and I can really recommed upgrading, especially a GX cassette to a X01 or XX1 will make a difference.


Agree, maybe not the cassette or shifter but the mech seems to make a difference:


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## kave (Jan 7, 2013)

To me I always had the feeling the GX casette would try to free spin when I stopped pedalling so I really enjoy the much lighter X01 cassette.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

jeremy3220 said:


> I'm still having issues. After I got it back from the LBS it was making noise again after 3-4 rides. I checked the hanger alignment which was perfect, checked the B gap which was dead on and it still won't index properly across the range. It's borderline ok right now. It's not ghost shifting but it's making noise from the chain hitting adjacent cogs. On the low gears the alignment is biased toward the low side, on the high gears it's biased to the high side. Could it be a defective shifter?


I replaced my cable and housing (optislick/SP41) which did make a difference in feel but didn't fix the alignment issue. I'm thinking it's a bent derailleur. My LBS doesn't stock Eagle derailleurs so I'm either going to take the bike back to the shop I bought it from 3 hrs away or just order a new derailleur. Any thoughts on whether an X01 derailleur would be more durable or precise than a GX?


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

jeremy3220 said:


> I replaced my cable and housing (optislick/SP41) which did make a difference in feel but didn't fix the alignment issue. I'm thinking it's a bent derailleur. My LBS doesn't stock Eagle derailleurs so I'm either going to take the bike back to the shop I bought it from 3 hrs away or just order a new derailleur. Any thoughts on whether an X01 derailleur would be more durable or precise than a GX?


See post #830 and good luck. BTW bent derailleur hanger would wreck everything. Good luck


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Are you sure your hanger is straight? I can't over stress how important this is.
Yes the xo1 is better and more precise. It will also wear longer. Smashing it into a rock will have the same effect on both.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

alexbn921 said:


> Are you sure your hanger is straight? I can't over stress how important this is.
> Yes the xo1 is better and more precise. It will also wear longer. Smashing it into a rock will have the same effect on both.


Yes I've checked it multiple times and even had my LBS check it. I've straightened the hanger as perfectly as possible with the Park Tool alignment tool. I can only get the derailleur adjusted enough to not skip gears but the derailleur alignment is clearly not ideal(wide biased spacing). Then it will last 4-6 rides then start skipping and I'll have to redo everything to get it borderline working again. My guess is I don't have enough wiggle room after I adjust it since I can only get the derailleur to a borderline acceptable level. I'm guessing things shift/settle after a few rides and it starts skipping again.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

jeremy3220 said:


> Yes I've checked it multiple times and even had my LBS check it. I've straightened the hanger as perfectly as possible with the Park Tool alignment tool. I can only get the derailleur adjusted enough to not skip gears but the derailleur alignment is clearly not ideal(wide biased spacing). Then it will last 4-6 rides then start skipping and I'll have to redo everything to get it borderline working again. My guess is I don't have enough wiggle room after I adjust it since I can only get the derailleur to a borderline acceptable level. I'm guessing things shift/settle after a few rides and it starts skipping again.


Sounds like something is loose or moving around. If it is out of alignment you will get perfect shifts at one end and crap at the other. Having your shifting change after several rides indicates that something is going on other than just being bent. 
Is the bushing good on your derailleur mount? Have you checked the interface of the b screw and hanger tab. This can be misaligned and make it shift around.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

It's not that sensitive guys - if your hanger checks out it's fine. The B screw really only impacts that shifting to the 42 and 50. A few things I have had happen to me to cause shifting to wonder over time:

1) Shifter cable fraying at the derailleur or shifter so that it is essentially getting longer each ride
2) Derailleur bolt that attaches it the frame loose and becoming looser each rider (this just happened to me with my Eagle)


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

alexbn921 said:


> Sounds like something is loose or moving around. If it is out of alignment you will get perfect shifts at one end and crap at the other. Having your shifting change after several rides indicates that something is going on other than just being bent.
> Is the bushing good on your derailleur mount? Have you checked the interface of the b screw and hanger tab. This can be misaligned and make it shift around.


What am I looking for on the derailleur mount bushing? Just play where the derailleur bolts to the hanger? The b screw seems fine. I had to adjust it once but it's checked fine since. I have wondered if the derailleur has a loose part as it seems like there's a lot of play in it.



> Having your shifting change after several rides indicates that something is going on other than just being bent.


Maybe but my thought was the best I can get it is to where it's not quite skipping but chattering on the other gears at both end of the cassette so if there's the tiniest change it goes out of whack.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

I just went ahead and ordered a new derailleur.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

I'm getting pretty close to trying the X01 RD myself too. 

I've also triple checked my derailleur hanger alignment and B-tension, and still have skipping in my shifting around the 3-4th from smallest cogs while riding. It shifts perfectly on the stand. It shifts fine everywhere else while riding. I have a relatively new cable (~<400 miles), the chain is fine (checked using chain wear tool), and the cassette is brand new (had to warranty 1st one due to broken 50t tooth). No amount of fiddling with cable tension or B-tension seems to fix it completely. Setting B-tension with sag is tricky, since I'm running a coil, so I tried the 1mm extra per the video linked above.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

One more comment - when it skips in the one cog, is it due to the chain hitting the cog next to it? I have seen this before due to the cassette not being manufactured correctly on Eagle GX...I THINK THIS IS IT! It was like the 4th or 5th cog I believe. I just remembered this issue on a buddy's bike I worked on at my team's maintenance night in my garage - I'm the team mechanic. That one cog was just a little too close and the chain rubbed it enough every so often that it tried to pick it up causing the skip.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

No, maybe what I'm calling skipping is different. When I downshift in those lower gears, most of the time it just sort of slips off and refuses to shift, no matter how long I pedal. But if I double tap, I can skip past it.

I'm 99% sure it's not the cassette because I've had the exact same problem with 2 X01 cassettes (1 brand new).


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

jeremy3220 said:


> I just went ahead and ordered a new derailleur.


That did the trick. The index alignment looks spot on. Now let's see how long I can go without issue. My new GX derailleur has the updated lower jockey wheel, feels like there is less play in it and it of course shifts smoother.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

You can buy the derailleur cage and jockey wheels separately. Cheaper than a gx rd. Way cheaper than x0 or xx.

Then you would have a spare.


jeremy3220 said:


> That did the trick. The index alignment looks spot on. Now let's see how long I can go without issue. My new GX derailleur has the updated lower jockey wheel, feels like there is less play in it and it of course shifts smoother.


Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

jeremy3220 said:


> That did the trick. The index alignment looks spot on. Now let's see how long I can go without issue. My new GX derailleur has the updated lower jockey wheel, feels like there is less play in it and it of course shifts smoother.


Interesting. I should look and see if I have the 1st gen GX. Since they're half the cost of an X01, that's a lot easier to stomach. Especially since I just found out SRAM approved my warranty on broken X01 cassette... which means I could either sell that, or upgrade my second bike to Eagle.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

ColinL said:


> You can buy the derailleur cage and jockey wheels separately. Cheaper than a gx rd. Way cheaper than x0 or xx.
> 
> Then you would have a spare.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Thanks, I'll have to look into that.


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

ColinL said:


> You can buy the derailleur cage and jockey wheels separately. Cheaper than a gx rd. Way cheaper than x0 or xx.
> 
> Then you would have a spare.
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Depends on how the RD fails. Mine doesn't look as if there's anything wrong with the cage. The twist I see comes from the derailleur body.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

A bit of advice to anyone else having issues getting your shifting perfect. Don't be like me - read the SRAM instructions and follow them to the letter, even if it's a bit inconvenient. Don't cut corners.

I originally didn't bother trying to get my bike into 20% sag for setting b-tension because I'm running a coil, and doing that is not as simple as just letting air out. I also ignored the instructions to set crank position to 4:00 if running an oval chainring. The result? Poor shifting around gears ~8-9. Once I stopped being lazy and actually did that, my shifting issues went away. Those 2 factors meant that my B-gap was off by about 2+mm.


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## RDVB (Dec 3, 2017)

Andeh said:


> A bit of advice to anyone else having issues getting your shifting perfect. Don't be like me - read the SRAM instructions and follow them to the letter, even if it's a bit inconvenient. Don't cut corners.
> 
> I originally didn't bother trying to get my bike into 20% sag for setting b-tension because I'm running a coil, and doing that is not as simple as just letting air out. I also ignored the instructions to set crank position to 4:00 if running an oval chainring. The result? Poor shifting around gears ~8-9. Once I stopped being lazy and actually did that, my shifting issues went away. Those 2 factors meant that my B-gap was off by about 2+mm.


May I know if you are to measure the B-gap now when your bike is at the stand, will it be less than 15mm to compensate it when at sag? Thanks.


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## b rock (Jan 5, 2017)

*Dry Lubes*



Didzy2009 said:


> also got to the bottom of the grinding/noisy drivetrain.....it is indeed the chainlube.....ive been using dry lubes or clean lubes more specifically, and these seem fine for the first 5-8 miles, then suddenly the noise comes and it sounds awful for the remainder of the ride....lubes that ive used previously and been fine on other drivetrains, but seem crap longevity on eagle for some reason, are squirt lube, purple extreme and rock n roll blue.....all 3 of them make the same awful noise after so many miles (and yes ive done the full degrease etc before)
> 
> so I bunged on some muc off team sky hydrodynamic lube that I had a few sampler sachets around before the bigger ride on Saturday, and thought sod it, ill degrease and try this lube in stead.....now this was just a sample so did the chain once and once only.....and by Christ what a difference, shifting was so crisp, clean and noise free at the start.....10 miles in, still no noise.....20 miles in still no noise....got to the end of 31 miles and it still no noise, no grind and shifted like new!!!!!
> 
> ...


I'm curious if anyone else has had good or bad experiences with their dry lube + Eagle on 10+ mile rides. I've been putting Squirt on the night before rides, and I'm not convinced it is doing a great job near the end of my dusty rides... although I am not getting much noise, I just had the feeling my shifting was degrading.


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## gomeralex (Oct 23, 2015)

I have always used Pro-x lite on eagle XX1 and never had issues relating to the lube. I do clean my drivetrain quite often.


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## kave (Jan 7, 2013)

I damaged my black XX1 chain so I mounted my spare GX chain. Seems to work as fine as the XX1 chain.
Is there a compelling reason to pay three times the price to save 20g for the XX1 chain or double as much for the same weight X01 chain?


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

RDVB said:


> May I know if you are to measure the B-gap now when your bike is at the stand, will it be less than 15mm to compensate it when at sag? Thanks.


Sorry for the slow response, I kept forgetting to check. I'm measuring 12.98mm with my digital caliper from tooth to tooth hanging on the stand. Call it 13mm .


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

kave said:


> I damaged my black XX1 chain so I mounted my spare GX chain. Seems to work as fine as the XX1 chain.
> Is there a compelling reason to pay three times the price to save 20g for the XX1 chain or double as much for the same weight X01 chain?


No. Expensive chains are moron bait IMO.

I also only buy solid pin chains. The only chains I've ever broken were hollow pin ones. 20g isn't worth the potential pain


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## RDVB (Dec 3, 2017)

Andeh said:


> Sorry for the slow response, I kept forgetting to check. I'm measuring 12.98mm with my digital caliper from tooth to tooth hanging on the stand. Call it 13mm .


Thanks for the valuable measurement. This is handy as a starting point - at least for me with the coil shock and no assistant.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Skeggs1993 said:


> I'm curious if anyone else has had good or bad experiences with their dry lube + Eagle on 10+ mile rides. I've been putting Squirt on the night before rides, and I'm not convinced it is doing a great job near the end of my dusty rides... although I am not getting much noise, I just had the feeling my shifting was degrading.


I'm using Smoove now, which is a wax lube, and I get 65-75 miles of pure silence in the dustiest SoCal conditions. I used to add lube prior to every ride with everything else.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

dupe


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

RDVB said:


> May I know if you are to measure the B-gap now when your bike is at the stand, will it be less than 15mm to compensate it when at sag? Thanks.


If you don't already have it, I HIGHLY recommend buying the SRAM b-gap adjustment gauge. It takes all the ambiguity and caliper-fiddling out of dialing in the b-gap.


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## jcoyoung (Aug 20, 2018)

*Drivetrain Noise after 10-15 minutes - my solution*

I too had the drivetrain noise after 10-15 minutes of riding, starting from a freshly cleaned and lubed drivetrain. I thought it was the chainring, but a new chainring didn't solve the issue.

I remembered I had recently removed , cleaned, and replaced the cassette. I did this again, throughly cleaning the cassette and integrated lock ring thing - relubed the freehub (i9) and reinstalled the cassette using the recommended torque. It's been about four rides now and the drivetrain is now back to near silent running like before. :thumbsup:

PS: Using Boeshield T-9 lube, drivetrain cleaning occurs on the bike using simple green and Park Tool drivetrain brush.


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## gontxo_nos (Jun 12, 2013)

Any help with this?: http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...ranks/gx-eagle-1x12-little-slack-1087415.html

Thanks.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

GuitsBoy said:


> Careful, you linked to the straight 24mm version for shimano cranks. That wont fit GXP. Youll need the stepped 24/22 version for GXP. https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-92-outboard-abec-3-bb-for-24-22mm-sram-cranks-black.html
> 
> I'm running this BB and have been extremely happy with it so far.


So could I use this to mount my XX1 Eagle crank w/ Dzero spider to my cross bike (Canyon Inflite CF 8.0) that came with press fit bearings? I'm a little confused because the site says it is not compatible with Eagle MTB. Thanks for any help in the matter.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

steelhmr said:


> So could I use this to mount my XX1 Eagle crank w/ Dzero spider to my cross bike (Canyon Inflite CF 8.0) that came with press fit bearings? I'm a little confused because the site says it is not compatible with Eagle MTB. Thanks for any help in the matter.


Sorry, I'm not familiar with a Dzero spider, now do I know what size pressfit bb your frame takes. But usually when a frame states that its not compatible with sram eagle, its because of clearance issues at the rear. The dropouts usually wont clear the smallest cog. Sometimes you can get away with using a small 12mm spacer, but not always.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

GuitsBoy said:


> Sorry, I'm not familiar with a Dzero spider, now do I know what size pressfit bb your frame takes. But usually when a frame states that its not compatible with sram eagle, its because of clearance issues at the rear. The dropouts usually wont clear the smallest cog. Sometimes you can get away with using a small 12mm spacer, but not always.


Thanks for responding. Let me clarify my dilemma a bit. The bike currently has an aluminum Quark Prime crank and GXP pressfit BB bearings. I would like to install the Sram Eagle XX1 crank with quark Dzero spider on that bike, but the spindle length is too wide for the bottom bracket. I was hoping the outboard bottom bracket conversion would allow for me to use spacers between the cups and the threads, but looking closer it seems that may not be an option. Perhaps the only way would be to use shims on the actual spindle?

It was actually the wheels mfg site that said this was not compatible with Eagle MTB cranks. I'm not looking to convert anything to 1x12. I just want to use the Eagle XX1 crank with my current 1x11 setup. Thanks.


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## mtn_doug (Jan 8, 2014)

RDVB said:


> May I know if you are to measure the B-gap now when your bike is at the stand, will it be less than 15mm to compensate it when at sag? Thanks.


In addition to the excellent suggestions in this thread, my wife's XO1 Eagle plastic shift cable pulley was creating just enough interference to create lackluster shifting. Replaced with Bike Yoke "Shifty" (Al pulley w/ceramic bearing) and shifting greatly improved. This was an early XO1 derailleur and my LBS stated that SRAM has addressed this issue, but they were not sure how?


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## jamcorse (Mar 23, 2018)

My wife's bike (Intense Primer) w GX picks up trail debris in the lower jockey wheel almost every ride and regularly has it jam the lower pulley, bending the cage and taking the indexing out. It is bad enough for me just having to listen to her drivetrain for the rest of the ride. It has never taken the hanger alignment out but I have bent the cage back so many times that I can't remember what it should be like, so I just experiment in the stand with the sag at 20% until I can get reasonable shifting but it doesn't last long. Will get the XO (call the bank manager) mech and see if that helps.
My XT 11 speed (Bronson1) never picks up debris, the lower pulleys on both are about the same height off the ground, so I've no idea why Eagle seems to do it so consistently.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^This seems to be more prevalent with the GX than the XO1...I grab a stick once in a while but it's never messed anything up with my XO1...my buddy's riding GX have had bent cages so many times I've lost track.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

They did change the shape of that lower jockey wheel a bit but the cage is probably still too soft. 

Btw, I'm on my 3rd Eagle GX chain since March. I'm going to try the XO1 chain in a couple months when this one wears out.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^The GX chain is not as durable. My XO1 lasted ~1400 miles and my two buddies with GX chains had there's last about 500 miles...it's twice as much ($60 vs. $30) so you are not gaining much beyond the issue of having to change chains more often. I personally think it's worth going longer with the XO1 for the same amount of money as changing the GX more often.


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## jamcorse (Mar 23, 2018)

TiGeo said:


> ^^^This seems to be more prevalent with the GX than the XO1...I grab a stick once in a while but it's never messed anything up with my XO1...my buddy's riding GX have had bent cages so many times I've lost track.


Thanks for the info, sounds like XO1 is the way to go.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

jamcorse said:


> My wife's bike (Intense Primer) w GX picks up trail debris in the lower jockey wheel almost every ride and regularly has it jam the lower pulley, bending the cage and taking the indexing out. It is bad enough for me just having to listen to her drivetrain for the rest of the ride. It has never taken the hanger alignment out but I have bent the cage back so many times that I can't remember what it should be like, so I just experiment in the stand with the sag at 20% until I can get reasonable shifting but it doesn't last long. Will get the XO (call the bank manager) mech and see if that helps.
> My XT 11 speed (Bronson1) never picks up debris, the lower pulleys on both are about the same height off the ground, so I've no idea why Eagle seems to do it so consistently.


Agree 100%...I think this is dependent on type of trails ridden but for me it's clear this design pulls stuff in much more frequently resulting in pulling derailleur into spokes and twisting of cage. See posts 624, 753, 778 for my woe's with this issue during spring riding. Have not had as many incidents in summer because there is less debris.

My plan is to go to Shimano 11 spd the next time derailleur gets trashed. Too bad because I have found the SRAM shifts great. Upgrading to even higher cost SRAM model derailleurs and cassettes is not worth it for me.


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## kdirk (Jun 20, 2012)

How are the shimano cranks with gx eagle? Thinking of upgrading my bikes, but wondering if Id need to spend on new cranks too. I have old 3-speed xt cranks running 1x on the middle ring. Alternatively I was thinking of getting one of the new m7000 (or 8000) cranks if theyre any better, since theyre a little cheaper than the gx ones. Would the chainline be fine with either?

Edit:I dont know anything about chainlines, and all these different/old standards make everything so confusion


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

TiGeo said:


> ^^^The GX chain is not as durable. My XO1 lasted ~1400 miles and my two buddies with GX chains had there's last about 500 miles...it's twice as much ($60 vs. $30) so you are not gaining much beyond the issue of having to change chains more often. I personally think it's worth going longer with the XO1 for the same amount of money as changing the GX more often.


All of my GX chains last pretty long. ( Way over 1000 miles )
But I don't ride that much in the mud.
I use the squirt dry lube chain wax which is very nice.
There is almost no dirt sticking to the chain and its is super easy to clean the chain afterwards.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

TiGeo said:


> ^^^This seems to be more prevalent with the GX than the XO1...I grab a stick once in a while but it's never messed anything up with my XO1...my buddy's riding GX have had bent cages so many times I've lost track.


I am running an XO1 Eagle drivetrain (crank is a RaceFace Next R). I bent the **** out of my derailleur hanger a month ago. [*first time I have bent a rear derailleur in 10 or more years by the way...]

Not sure if any of this is true but the dude at the LBS (who charged me a grand total of $5.25 to straighten it and meticulously clean my drivetrain) told me that the XO1 has a carbon cage, which basically saves the XO1's from death. He told me they see mangled Eagle rear derailleurs DAILY, and that the non-carbon cage ones are very often unsalvageable and SUPER finicky.

True or false, the guy pulled me from a deep depression as I watched him mend my injured bike so as far as I am concerned, he earned his place in biker's heaven that day.

EDIT: this appears incorrect, according to SRAM's website. Whatever. That said, maybe my smashed rear d has something to do with the kinda crappy shifting I have been experiencing in the first 2 gears...


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## Brig (Aug 18, 2012)

Quick question, I recently picked up a Commencal Meta HT with an NX Eagle drivetrain. Had an issue where the shifter just stopped shifting mid ride. I got home and opened up the shifter and the cable was kinked and there were little bits of plastic hanging out. I plan on just ordering a new GX shifter, but my question is.....are the internals in the GX metal or the same plastic? 

Thanks.


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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

I believe the GX is still plastic but supposed to be better quality to shift smoother and last longer. But that might just be marketing hype. I have had my GX since December with no problems, if that means anything.


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

Brig said:


> Quick question, I recently picked up a Commencal Meta HT with an NX Eagle drivetrain. Had an issue where the shifter just stopped shifting mid ride. I got home and opened up the shifter and the cable was kinked and there were little bits of plastic hanging out. I plan on just ordering a new GX shifter, but my question is.....are the internals in the GX metal or the same plastic?
> 
> Thanks.


IMO if there's one Eagle part worth upgrading from GX it's the shifter. In other words, get an X01 shifter and be happy.


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## Brig (Aug 18, 2012)

Schwa72 said:


> IMO if there's one Eagle part worth upgrading from GX it's the shifter. In other words, get an X01 shifter and be happy.


Yeah. I actually ordered the GX shifter as mine was the NX. If I was spending $130
On a shifter I'd just buy a full XT drivetrain.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mnpikey (Sep 18, 2017)

Thinking of upgrading my 2016 5010 with 11 speed GX shifter and cassette, X1 chain, and X01 shifter.

Did 25 miles of mostly climbing last weekend and found myself wanting just a bit more gearing sometimes. I was using a 32T Wolf Tooth chainring at the time too. Maybe I should have been using a 30T that day, IDK.

Anyways, thinking of the following:

GX 12 speed cassette
GX 12 speed derailleur
X01 12 speed shifter (due to adjustment lacking with GX)
X01 chain

Anything I'm missing or should change?


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## Schwa72 (Apr 20, 2004)

Brig said:


> Yeah. I actually ordered the GX shifter as mine was the NX. If I was spending $130
> On a shifter I'd just buy a full XT drivetrain.


I'm not sure I follow that logic since I'm pretty sure it'll cost you quite a bit more than $130 to get an XT drivetrain.


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## Brig (Aug 18, 2012)

Schwa72 said:


> I'm not sure I follow that logic since I'm pretty sure it'll cost you quite a bit more than $130 to get an XT drivetrain.


Definitely more, but adding an XO shifter to an NX drivetrain doesn't make a whole lot of logical sense to me.

XT Derailleur, shifter, chain, Cassette $200 at Jenson.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

*chain length?*

hey all,

i've been running with my chain this length for awhile, and i was wondering if it's correct or if i could remove an inner and outer plate to shorten it.

chainstay is 442mm, 30t eagle chainring on a small yeti sb6


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

mnpikey said:


> Thinking of upgrading my 2016 5010 with 11 speed GX shifter and cassette, X1 chain, and X01 shifter.
> 
> Did 25 miles of mostly climbing last weekend and found myself wanting just a bit more gearing sometimes. I was using a 32T Wolf Tooth chainring at the time too. Maybe I should have been using a 30T that day, IDK.
> 
> ...


I'd grab a wider range 11 speed cassette rather than change to Eagle. What you have currently is lighter and more reliable than Eagle. Probably shifts better too


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

usesport - It's always a little hard to tell from a picture since the camera angles can play tricks on you, but that chain looks fine and as long as it's shifting fine I would keep the chain length you have. There is also the question 'is the rear suspension compressed' when the pic was taken? Of course the best way is to use the SRAM recommendations (and tool) for adjusting the b-tension and determining chain length.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

has anyone had clicking from the mech or similar?

ive recently got a gx mech, eagle chainring and xx1 black chain, but suddenly over the last few rides got an awful clicking noise when putting down the power seated or stood out off saddle

everythings clean, degreased, regreased etc and all torques are correct

it sounds like its coming from the mech to my ears when in the biggest few cogs under load....sram dub BB is a few months old and smooth still

ive even checked all pivots etc but its not that


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## Pilsner1 (Mar 17, 2011)

Likely rear de is slightly bent, 12 speed is very finicky with this


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Didzy2009 said:


> has anyone had clicking from the mech or similar?
> 
> ive recently got a gx mech, eagle chainring and xx1 black chain, but suddenly over the last few rides got an awful clicking noise when putting down the power seated or stood out off saddle
> 
> ...


That's a tough one. I start to get minor clicks every month or so. I usually just have to clean and grease everything, and I mean everywhere I have metal to metal on my rear triangle. Hanger to frame, derailleur to hanger, inside the axle dropouts, axle itself, where my axle bolt touches the dropout on the outside of the frame. That, and, I made sure the hanger is straight with the alignment tool and make sure b gap is set right. Sometimes I need a drop of oil on my spike crossings too but I'm a Clyde who climbs steep tech sections so it's a worse case scenario to create noise and I hate all noise.


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## Novaterra (Jan 1, 2014)

has anyone experienced extreme wear of their GX cassette's?, my second one in 1,5 years, every cassette was ridden with 2 XX1 chains and max 1700mls. not much climbing, maybe 50.000ft per cassette.
the 11 speed GX and XX1 survived double the mls than the eagle


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## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

Novaterra said:


> has anyone experienced extreme wear of their GX cassette's?, my second one in 1,5 years, every cassette was ridden with 2 XX1 chains and max 17000mls. not much climbing, maybe 50.000ft per cassette.
> the 11 speed GX and XX1 survived double the mls than the eagle


17000 miles seems ok


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## Novaterra (Jan 1, 2014)

haha, sorry, 1700mls


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I've had two Eagle GX cassetes die prematurely on me, both around 800 miles. Both developed problems in 7th and 8th gears only (21T and 18T). The first cassette developed failure to shift between those two gears unless you overshift or tweak the barrell adjuster to the point the other gears would suffer. I think this was due to mushrooming the cog teeth in those gears, causing the chain to need to shift further than normal. That cassette was replaced under warranty.

The second cassette has started skipping under load. Checked the derailleur hanger, sagged b-limit, cable and housing, all the usual suspects. It seems the chain just rides up and over and skips under heavy load. This makes mashing out of he saddle a risky proposition. No amount of tweaking to the barrell adjuster will make it go away since I dont believe its ghost shifting or attempting to derail. I think its literally slipping over the top of the teeth. Waiting to hear back about a warranty.

Anyway, Ive since spent entirely too much money on a gold cassette and chain. If they replace the second cassette, that will trickle down to another bike.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Have in mind that a worn chainring will wear chain faster and then chain will wear cassette! I dont have experience with gx cassete though, but what i mention on my xx1 setup was that my chainring was the first part to wear. Somewhere I read that xx1 chain could wear two chainrings before it wears itself. But so far my xx1 setup was by far the most durable over time!


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## phalkon30 (Jan 17, 2009)

I noticed my 1x ring on my gx is looking very worn, but my cassette and chain seem fine. I guess it makes sense for it to wear, but coming from 3x setups in the past I rarely changed the chain rings.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

True, 3 rings goes longer, but I still remember the overpriced XTR rings, it was cheaper to get a new crankset back in those years while now you can have a decent narrow wide ring for something like 20 euros!


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

I find aluminum 1x chainrings can wear pretty fast. The symptom is grinding you can feel when you put a new chain on. I switched to SRAM steel rings on my 11 speed bikes for this reason. They were 1/3 the price and ~3oz heavier. The Eagle aluminum rings are supposed to be more durable in this regard. 

I have not found worn cassettes to accelerate chain wear. I'll typically get 3 chains before replacing a cassette and all three wear at about the same rate.


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## recycle127 (Nov 15, 2007)

Has anyone had any issues with the clutch not working in their Eagle XO1 derailleur? Mine has lost its tension.


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## ryanbaillar (Jul 19, 2017)

I have an issue after setting my GX eagle drivetrain on my SC hightower lt. It seems to shift great however when in the eagle gear the chain seems like it wants to jump off the eagle gear and slip into second gear, only when I’m on the bike, shifts great in the stand. Set up was per instructions, BGap was right on with the tool. What am I missing? Could chain be to short?


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

ryanbaillar said:


> I have an issue after setting my GX eagle drivetrain on my SC hightower lt. It seems to shift great however when in the eagle gear the chain seems like it wants to jump off the eagle gear and slip into second gear, only when I'm on the bike, shifts great in the stand. Set up was per instructions, BGap was right on with the tool. What am I missing? Could chain be to short?


Post a picture and we will let you know...........


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## ryanbaillar (Jul 19, 2017)

Inserted photo in my original post. Thank you.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

ryanbaillar said:


> I have an issue after setting my GX eagle drivetrain on my SC hightower lt. It seems to shift great however when in the eagle gear the chain seems like it wants to jump off the eagle gear and slip into second gear, only when I'm on the bike, shifts great in the stand. Set up was per instructions, BGap was right on with the tool. What am I missing? Could chain be to short?


Looks pretty short especially considering the rear suspension is not under sag. How did you size the chain, what instructions did you follow when setting up the chain length? SRAM manual/video?


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## ryanbaillar (Jul 19, 2017)

Yeah I used the sram manual and watched the video. I was having the issue of it jumping on the 50t cog after i sized the chain so i cut another link off thinking that was it, maybe went to short now? Would a short chain cause the symptoms that i'm having? When in the stand it shifts great, and when i sit on it and pedal around it wants to come off that 50t?


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## gustavo.ghd (Jul 13, 2017)

Did you set the B-gap under sag?


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## ryanbaillar (Jul 19, 2017)

Yes I did


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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

If you look at the Sram video for adjusting, at about 9:10, I would say the chain is definitely too short. 
https://www.sram.com/stories/sram-eagle-install-and-set-video-3


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## ryanbaillar (Jul 19, 2017)

Yeah I would agree, my cage is at less of an angle than shown in the video. I’m gonna replace it and see how that works.


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## mfacey (Dec 16, 2018)

I need to buy a 30T chainring to replace my 34T ring that came stock on my 2019 YT Jeffsy. I'm running a GX Eagle setup with boost spacing and the new DUB BB. I think I need a chainring with a 3mm offset. So far i've only been able to find the steel and AL SRAM options. Does anyone know if there are any other manufacturers making good (and more affordable) alternatives?


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

mfacey said:


> I need to buy a 30T chainring to replace my 34T ring that came stock on my 2019 YT Jeffsy. I'm running a GX Eagle setup with boost spacing and the new DUB BB. I think I need a chainring with a 3mm offset. So far i've only been able to find the steel and AL SRAM options. Does anyone know if there are any other manufacturers making good (and more affordable) alternatives?


Wolftooth and Absolute Black make good inexpensive rings. KA Engineering makes Ti rings.


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

mfacey said:


> I need to buy a 30T chainring to replace my 34T ring that came stock on my 2019 YT Jeffsy. I'm running a GX Eagle setup with boost spacing and the new DUB BB. I think I need a chainring with a 3mm offset. So far i've only been able to find the steel and AL SRAM options. Does anyone know if there are any other manufacturers making good (and more affordable) alternatives?


Just go with the steel SRAM X-Sync 2 chainring. It is noticeably quieter, will outlast your frame, costs $17 and the 30T only weighed 58g more than my forged aluminum X-Sync 2 ring..... no brainer.

As a 215lb rider who averages 180 miles per month, I don't want aluminum anywhere in my chain track. On my 20 mile rides, I only use the aluminum 50T cog on my GX cassette 3-4 times for maybe 100yds total.


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## aviator79 (Nov 6, 2014)

deleted


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