# Where are the wide rims in DH?



## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Am I missing something, or has the trend for wider and wider rims not quite taken hold in the world of DH yet? There are numerous wide offerings from popular brands, both after market and coming stock on some trail bikes but I am not seeing this in DH yet. Just examples, but both Ibis and Specialized have some trail bikes coming with rims that are 35, or even 40mm wide - but DH bikes still come with rims less than 30 wide?

Wouldn't you expect the same benefits of wide rims on trail bikes to be applicable to DH bikes? Perhaps moreso?


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

My thoughts exactly!! Why all of a sudden we get all of these new rim offerings with widths said to "be better", but they only come in 27.5" or 29"...?!?! Seems to me these new widths are deemed only good for enduro, xc or anything else...well except dh.


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## TheRage43 (Jul 19, 2012)

Sun ringle double wide?

I remember back in the day this rim was the SH!T!

I don't think the lack of 26" rims is due to "wide rims not being oriented for DH" but more for the fact that large manufacturers are NOT making high end stuff for 26" at all.

Also, with this "rise of enduro" comes the realization that full on DH riding and bikes geared fully towards DH are becoming less and less commonplace, if they ever were. Too many people being pushed towards and buying "do-it-all" bikes.

Look as most large manufacturers, 1 DH bike offering, usually high end only or a high end/mid-high end builds. Most same manufacturers have multiple "trail" bikes covering very similar grounds, some companies even have 3 or 4 different "AM" frames with varying build levels.

Manifested demand, forced supply, followed shortly with "I gotta have this" attitude is the new Supply and Demand model.

Yes, supply and demand can be manifested if the populous is generally gullible. 

'Murica


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

Because you don't need them.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

I had double wides back on my first 2 straight8's..awesome rims! I also had the Mammoths!


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## kenbentit (Jan 2, 2003)

I have an old Ditch Witch in the garage if you want it! Used the old Mammoths for a table


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Syntace makes wide rims for DH and in 26". Check out the MX40. 
They are an in house German brand. They cost a bit more but they are over engineered, lightweight, strong as heck considering the weight and made in Germany. Not Asia.


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## tim300wsm (May 14, 2011)

There are plenty of 35+ mm carbon rims in 26"


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

tim300wsm said:


> There are plenty of 35+ mm carbon rims in 26"


yep, nice offerings for the rich.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Spank makes a 40mm rim, and LB, Nextie and Derby make carbon 26" at or around the 40 mark.

edit: Spank rims are ~$90, the LB/Nextie rims are $180 and the Derby is $329.


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## tim300wsm (May 14, 2011)

I bought the 40mm nextie rims a dt350 rear hub and a spank 20mm front and dt spokes for about $600. I don't think thats to bad for what I'm getting


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Only noticing as I'm shopping for a new DH bike, and am not seeing wide rims on anything really (26 or 27.5 offerings). Especially vs. bikes from the same manufacturer that are putting wide rims on trailbikes at similar pricepoints and spec levels.

I know there are 3rd-party options out there, and I'll probably put some wide LB/Nextie's on eventually.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Anyone tried the newer FR 570?


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

regarding the OP's question: 
If ultra-wide (~40mm) rims were that much better than normal-wide rims, I'd expect to see more WC DH racers using them. But they don't seem to be going quite that wide. ~30-35mm seems to be more popular (going off of bike checks/photos). Maybe at DH speeds, rock strikes to the sidewalls would be too big a risk if they were hanging out too far? Just a thought. 

I wonder if things will settle down a bit in the future and we will scale back to the 30-35mm range. Sort of like how everyone went for massive tires (eg: Nokian Gazzaloddi 3.0) for a few years, then backed off to ~2.5s.


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

What size rims were they using with those 3" tires?
I ask because I wonder if 40mm rims would make 3" tires work better than they did at the time.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

NWS said:


> What size rims were they using with those 3" tires?
> I ask because I wonder if 40mm rims would make 3" tires work better than they did at the time.


It wasn't just the width that made them unsuccessful. They also weighed a ton. I've often seen those tires mounted on old Outlaws, and I saw one set on some Arrow DHHs many years ago. The Outlaws were rather average by today's standards at about 33-ish, and the Arrows were something like a 37mm. The Gazzes still looked ridiculously huge and bulbous though. Almost full fat-bike status. The fact that they were mounted to a Super Monster T which was mounted to a Karpiel didn't help things either.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

I have a few new Gazzas here they are like 26+ tires even on 35mm rim's and they are really tall. Weight wise they are like 110g heavier than the DHF and HR's I have here.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

Don't need as big of a tire when you have a "wide" rim. Should make the contact patch bigger, which "in theory" make for better grip/control. What benefit is a wide rim for 27.5" or 29" wheels/tires ? And why wouldn't it be the same for a 26" ?


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

Except moving to a wider rim doesn't help anything, especially when you run tires that aren't meant to be run on a wider rim. You end up with a more squared off tread, which gives slow riders the feeling of more stability, since they aren't using the corner knobs to get traction in the corners. There are reasons why WC riders aren't using wide rims...


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

bad andy said:


> Wouldn't you expect the same benefits of wide rims on trail bikes to be applicable to DH bikes? Perhaps moreso?


Oh Boy. I asked the same question (in a different way) on the Wheels and Tires forum here a year ago. I'm afraid to even suggest that you read it. (Don't believe the hype)

My take: Wide Rims >27-28mm inner width aren't an optimal choice for DH. For good perspective - look at what the Specialized MTB racing teams choose. Look at the Specialized Team DH riders on the DT Swiss EX471 (25mm inner) instead of the FR570 (27.5mm inner). Why do they do that? Probably because it helps them go faster. Then look at what their riders use for Enduro Roval Fatties.

These guys are not guessing. There are probably things we can learn from their choices.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

kazlx said:


> Except moving to a wider rim doesn't help anything, especially when you run tires that aren't meant to be run on a wider rim. You end up with a more squared off tread, which gives slow riders the feeling of more stability, since they aren't using the corner knobs to get traction in the corners. There are reasons why WC riders aren't using wide rims...


So they're of no benefit to 27.5 or 29 in riders ?


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

The pro DH teams and their science can suck it. 
Last week, this guy on Pinkbike who owns not one but TWO Dakine truck pads told me that 53mm and wider rims and no gloves would make me faster. He promised that it would be better for xc, trail, xc/trail, AM, AM+xc, AM-trail, trail-AM, light AM, full-on AM, Sea Otter jump seshies, enduro, endurbro, downhill, downduro, upduro, endurocross, corner store beer runs, downhill flow trails, uphill flow trails, and back to xc again. And since his profile picture had a plaid shirt and TLD helmet in it, I see no reason to doubt him whatsoever. 53mm rims it is. Done.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

oldranger said:


> .. Specialized Team DH riders on the DT Swiss EX471 (25mm inner) instead of the FR570 (27.5mm inner).


Has anyone tried the EX471 ?


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

man w/ one hand said:


> My thoughts exactly!! Why all of a sudden we get all of these new rim offerings with widths said to "be better", but they only come in 27.5" or 29"...?!?! Seems to me these new widths are deemed only good for enduro, xc or anything else...well except dh.


It's all a fad. 29" and 27.5" don't really have any real advantage either (except feeling a bit more stable), so go figure.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

kazlx said:


> ...aren't meant to be run on a wider rim. You end up with a more squared off tread...


This raises a very good point. Jump into the fatbike world for a bit, where there is a HUGE variance in the width of rims. It is WELL documented that putting a "smaller" tire (3.8) on a wider rim (100mm) squares off the tread, sometimes almost ridiculously so. This effectively causes sidewall knobs to make more contact with the ground. Advantage can be more perceived traction. Disadvantage is often self-steering of the tires, which results in instability. This is converse to the notion that more contact patch = more stability. Anyone who has experienced self-steer would rather do without it, if possible. Granted, these are extreme cases, exemplified by the larger tires and lower psi. There is a sweet spot, and appropriate choices for your given riding application. Fatbike riders are choosing rims and tire widths depending on their riding location, conditions and trail characteristics.

With this in mind I can understand how at WC DH level, riders want the fastest possible tire profile. Too square and the tread may actually hold them back. But where is the line really? At what point does a given tire go from round to square, and at what point is it too much? Is adding 10mm in rim width really going to have much effect on my 2.3" tire?

The fatbike forum has a great thread about this. There is a spreadsheet maintained of various tires with their widths mounted on various width rims. So you get to see how tire "a" measures up on a 65mm rim all the way to 100mm rim. Very useful and informative. Would be very cool to have something like that for trail & DH tires and rims.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

turbodog said:


> It's all a fad. 29" and 27.5" don't really have any real advantage either (except feeling a bit more stable), so go figure.


They definitely do have real advantages. They aren't night-and-day differences, but they are there, and that matters to racers and competitive people. But take this example:

Imagine there are two identical racers on an xc course. One has a normal wheelset. The other has a fancy larger wheel that uses 1.5% less energy than the normal wheelset because rolls more easily. Small difference, right? Now let's assume they ride a 40 mile course, and burn their energy at the same rate. When the first guy crosses the finish line, the rider with the normal wheels will be 0.6 miles behind him. That's 3.6 minutes behind at a speed of 10 mph if you prefer time to distance.

It's easy to hate on the industry because of these often trendy things. They ahve done a lot of lame stuff. But some of these 'fads' as you call them do have actual benefits. True, those advantages come at a cost though. Bigger wheels roll better over small bumps. That's a provable mathematical fact. But they ahve a higher moment of inertia, and they are slower to respond to input changes. Smaller wheels are easier to accelerate up to speed, but roll slower. That's also proven.

So it's all a matter of finding out what you want to gain vs what you are willing to give up. And depending on the trails in your area and how you ride, the best option will be different for each person. It's actually great for us consumers to have choices like this nowadays. The only people that lose out from these different wheel sizes are the shops. They now have to split their money into stocking three sizes of a product.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

man w/ one hand said:


> So they're of no benefit to 27.5 or 29 in riders ?


No benefit is a strong statement. But chances are perceived benefits are more than actual benefits. Hell, perceived benefits might mask detriment. Nobody wants to go buy a super sweet set of wide ass carbon rims and then come on a forum and say they suck or they just have more money than talent and don't realize they suck or are worse than what they replaced. They are amped before even riding them. Moar carbonz, right?

Like someone mentioned with the fatbike chart, the variables between a rim width and the amount of tires that could possibly be mounted are mind numbing. There are obvious favorites, but even those can feel different when mounted to different rims. The problem is, too wide can be a problem, but riders may perceive it as a benefit. The rim/tire combo may feel stable initially, but you lose the ability for the tire to stay as stable as it should be leaned over. Go to a bike park or anywhere and watch people corner...the problem isn't with the tires, it's with people's cornering technique. I'm by no means the fastest rider, but again, there's a reason racers are running wide rims.

They are heavier and weaker than a narrower rim. Obviously there is a balancing point trade off of needing a rim of at least a certain width to the tire you are using. But there are lots of people using rims that are un-necessarily wide, when they should just be working on cornering technique.



charging_rhinos said:


> They definitely do have real advantages. They aren't night-and-day differences, but they are there, and that matters to racers and competitive people. But take this example:
> 
> Imagine there are two identical racers on an xc course. One has a normal wheelset. The other has a fancy larger wheel that uses 1.5% less energy than the normal wheelset because rolls more easily. Small difference, right? Now let's assume they ride a 40 mile course, and burn their energy at the same rate. When the first guy crosses the finish line, the rider with the normal wheels will be 0.6 miles behind him. That's 3.6 minutes behind at a speed of 10 mph if you prefer time to distance.
> 
> ...


Larger wheels do not use 'less energy'. There are so many variables in that situation that trying to say that bigger wheels would put you 3.6 minutes ahead is silly at best. Should have just left out that entire paragraph...the last two are good though...


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

kazlx said:


> Larger wheels do not use 'less energy'. There are so many variables in that situation that trying to say that bigger wheels would put you 3.6 minutes ahead is silly at best. Should have just left out that entire paragraph...the last two are good though...


Just a very basic, completely theoretical example. I didn't want to label anything specific about the wheels such as diameter, weight, etc. I also purposefully left out basic physics principles like moment of inertia, damping factors, crank vs wheel torque, tire pressure, shock settings (these last two likely make a far bigger a difference in performance than wheel size alone), etc. Those aren't negligible in the real world, I just didn't want to get too science-pukey. All I was trying to do is illustrate that each wheel size has performance benefits (many of which have been proven), and a tiny difference in any direction can make a huge deal the longer one rides, that's all.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

kazlx said:


> No benefit is a strong statement. But chances are perceived benefits are more than actual benefits. Hell, perceived benefits might mask detriment. Nobody wants to go buy a super sweet set of wide ass carbon rims and then come on a forum and say they suck or they just have more money than talent and don't realize they suck or are worse than what they replaced. They are amped before even riding them. Moar carbonz, right? .
> 
> Like someone mentioned with the fatbike chart, the variables between a rim width and the amount of tires that could possibly be mounted are mind numbing. There are obvious favorites, but even those can feel different when mounted to different rims. The problem is, too wide can be a problem, but riders may perceive it as a benefit. The rim/tire combo may feel stable initially, but you lose the ability for the tire to stay as stable as it should be leaned over. Go to a bike park or anywhere and watch people corner...the problem isn't with the tires, it's with people's cornering technique. I'm by no means the fastest rider, but again, there's a reason racers are running wide rims.
> 
> ...


Not a statement, but was asking. Isn't this website supposed to tell us the good & bad about the parts/bikes we spend our hard-earned coin on & not just the good things??? Seriously, we should all be able to see past the "prestige/embarassment" of anything we have purchased & tell the truth about the reality of what we have!!


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

Rim width is relatively independent of diameter, ie you can change one without changing the other and have little to no effect. For the most part, everything will work itself out, ie people may jump on the wide rim bandwagon for a while to one up their buddies or whatever. Eventually, the whole thing will sort itself out. It definitely seems to be more of a fad with the newer 27 and 29ers, because it's pretty much already been hashed out with 26ers. As you can tell with the jokes, you could at one point buy a 3.0 tire and mount it a doublewide or something equally comical. 

'For the most part' most design aspects trickle down from racing in one form or another. That is the forum for brutally testing products at a level where it is impossible for most of the masses. Then you get refinement and release to everyone else. There's a reason you don't see 3.0 gazzi's anymore....because they suck. It's hard for Joe Schmoe to come on here and say that the sweet wide carbon rims he just dropped 3 grand on weren't worth it. Most people don't want to swallow their pride like that...


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## rdhfreethought (Aug 12, 2006)

man w/ one hand said:


> Not a statement, but was asking. Isn't this website supposed to tell us the good & bad about the parts/bikes we spend our hard-earned coin on & not just the good things??? Seriously, we should all be able to see past the "prestige/embarassment" of anything we have purchased & tell the truth about the reality of what we have!!


Yes, but even with a proper attitude, most people do not know how to design a scientifically rigorous study to actually compare things. Even people that do know, have to make compromises that increase bias.

I suspect most people FEEL that a part is better, if it has a logical design, is made by a 'good company', or has a high bling/cost factor. That is just human nature.

Look at the Handlebar debate (width and thickness). Hard to get people to talk science, since they are blinded by the multitude of other factors that come into play.


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

I think more tire makers will begin to make a rounder profile and the wider hoops will then allow more tire choices. We are testing some Derby DH 650B hoops now. They do offer a fair bit more stopping power up front and a bit less air. I haven't gone below 25PSI yet. But I am nervous about cracking a plastic hoop.

I have scraped the side of the rim on rocks though. Keep in mind we are in San Luis Obispo and the terrain here is about 85% rock. If you live in smoother hero dirt areas this may not effect you.

The wheels are stiff and in fact may be to stiff. There is no flex in them at all combine that with one of the stiffest Enduro frames made and the trails can start feeling rough even with the 650B hoop that added about 1" to my total tire height....


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## Tuono (Apr 24, 2013)

Deerhill said:


> Anyone tried the newer FR 570?


I just had a wheel set built up with the FR-570- DT350 Hub with the 54t ring gear. I have rode them maybe 60-70 miles- plenty of boulders and drops- one notable casing of a double, and the wheels remained true. Not so much my shoulder though. Good wheels. Nice and wide.


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## mojoronnie (Feb 26, 2012)

kazlx said:


> Because you don't need them.


X2 Why would you want a wider tire for dh... makes no sense.


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## Tuono (Apr 24, 2013)

mojoronnie said:


> X2 Why would you want a wider tire for dh... makes no sense.


Wider rims rather than wide tires gives better support to the tire as a whole, but more specifically to the sidewall. Consider that car tires, Motorcycle tires, road bike tires, dirt bike tires etc. all have wide rims as compared to the over all width of the tire.
More stability and traction due to a larger contact patch. DH tires for a long time have typically been wider 2.35 to 2.5 inches- Now days the rims seem to be following suit.
This is from bike radar "Syntace's press materials show the benefits of a wider rim"


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## mojoronnie (Feb 26, 2012)

Tuono said:


> Wider rims rather than wide tires gives better support to the tire as a whole, but more specifically to the sidewall. Consider that car tires, Motorcycle tires, road bike tires, dirt bike tires etc. all have wide rims as compared to the over all width of the tire.
> More stability and traction due to a larger contact patch. DH tires for a long time have typically been wider 2.35 to 2.5 inches- Now days the rims seem to be following suit.
> This is from bike radar "Syntace's press materials show the benefits of a wider rim"


The last thing you want in DH is more rolling resistants and thats exactly what a bigger contact patch does. Dh is all about speed


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

But isn't DH sometimes about traction too? I mean, you can't be slipping around all over the place right?


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

mojoronnie said:


> The last thing you want in DH is more rolling resistants and thats exactly what a bigger contact patch does. Dh is all about speed


Hmm, I wonder why aren't the DH tires all 1.8 and 2.0... 
Of course traction is one of the most important things in mtb, even more so in DH.
Better traction = more stability = more speed.


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## Tuono (Apr 24, 2013)

mojoronnie said:


> The last thing you want in DH is more rolling resistants and thats exactly what a bigger contact patch does. Dh is all about speed


If that were entirely true, then Aaron Gwin would be riding slicks. Turns out he rides a wide rimmed wheel and knobbies. Contact patch is another benefit of using a 27.5 inch wheel on a DH bike (see nearly every leading 2015 DH bike manufacturer specs) in addition to rollover height which also improves rolling resistance. 
DH is about speed _and_ control. Wide rims help with control. Speed is not entirely about rolling resistance either. With overall fast times, a lot of it has to do with carrying speed through and out of the corners, which requires traction. 
Wide rims structurally help straighten sidewalls; which helps give the effect of a stiffer sidewall; which allows for lower air pressure; which helps provide a larger contact patch; which helps with traction in corners; which helps keep speed through corners; which helps with overall speed; which helps in DH.


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## mojoronnie (Feb 26, 2012)

jazzanova said:


> Hmm, I wonder why aren't the DH tires all 1.8 and 2.0...
> Of course traction is one of the most important things in mtb, even more so in DH.
> Better traction = more stability = more speed.


Who said anything about 1.8? I run a 2.3 on Mavic Deemax's which is considered narrow,and traction has never been an issue. That set up works pretty well for Sam Hill and other top racers. I guess it depends on your skill set and how you ride. But for an advanced rider wider isn't necessary for dh.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

mojoronnie said:


> Who said anything about 1.8? I run a 2.3 on Mavic Deemax's which is considered narrow,and traction has never been an issue. That set up works pretty well for Sam Hill and other top racers. I guess it depends on your skill set and how you ride. But for an advanced rider wider isn't necessary for dh.


Wouldn't you have less contact patch and rolling resistance with 1.8,tires? Don't let yourself to be slowed down by those bigger contact patch 2.3 you are running now...


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

I had Muddy Mary 2.5s, that looked like Maxxis 2.7s. They were grippy but slowed me down on the straights. Backed down to Magic Mary 2.35. On 32mm (28 internal) rims, I don't think I want anything much more if I was not running a wider tire.


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

As with everything in life there is a balance point that is pragmatic. Many people find a 2.3" width DH tire (or 2.5" if we're talking Maxxis) to provide a good balance between traction, weight, percision and float, with 2.5" tires (or 2.7" Maxxis) often being too heavy/floaty/impercise in many conditions. With a tire of that width there's no need to go any wider then a 729, and the difference in performance for the same tire mounted on a 729 and 823 is negligible due to how stiff DH sidewalls are. Long story short - there's less need for a wider contact patch since a 2.3/2.5" sticky rubber stiff sidewall DH tire on a 23-29mm internal width rim is already a really good balance point.


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## mojoronnie (Feb 26, 2012)

Tuono said:


> If that were entirely true, then Aaron Gwin would be riding slicks. Turns out he rides a wide rimmed wheel and knobbies. Contact patch is another benefit of using a 27.5 inch wheel on a DH bike (see nearly every leading 2015 DH bike manufacturer specs) in addition to rollover height which also improves rolling resistance.
> DH is about speed _and_ control. Wide rims help with control. Speed is not entirely about rolling resistance either. With overall fast times, a lot of it has to do with carrying speed through and out of the corners, which requires traction.
> Wide rims structurally help straighten sidewalls; which helps give the effect of a stiffer sidewall; which allows for lower air pressure; which helps provide a larger contact patch; which helps with traction in corners; which helps keep speed through corners; which helps with overall speed; which helps in DH.


Speed is isn't about rolling resistance? Did you skip physics or maybe you haven't ridden in the mud. (check bings comment) But You're right, the corners are where you make up the most time. but a good rider knows how to find traction with out going wider. It is all about balance (check djjohnr comment) I ride a dhr 2.35 in whistler and it rails everything I throw at it. When you're hauling A** DH you're not leaning it over that hard anyway


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## Tuono (Apr 24, 2013)

mojoronnie said:


> Speed is isn't about rolling resistance? Did you skip physics or maybe you haven't ridden in the mud. (check bings comment) But You're right, the corners are where you make up the most time. but a good rider knows how to find traction with out going wider. It is all about balance (check djjohnr comment) I ride a dhr 2.35 in whistler and it rails everything I throw at it. When you're hauling A** DH you're not leaning it over that hard anyway


Didn't miss physics- also said that speed isn't entirely about rolling resistance. Operative term is "entirely".
We are generally in agreement. This thread is about wide rims, not wide tires. You and I both ride 2.35 tires which are relatively wide. The difference is at the bead not the tread. Wider bead- straighter sidewall- less PSI needed to avoid rim strikes and burps- same tread width- just more of it is in contact with the ground.
You stated that it didn't make sense- I was trying to explain why people are trying wider rims. I have. Went from a 23mm inner width rim with a 2.35 Magic Mary to a 28mm inner width rim and the same tire and was able to drop 5psi and corner noticeably faster. You can try it- or continue to insult people you've never met on forums.


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## mojoronnie (Feb 26, 2012)

Tuono said:


> Didn't miss physics- also said that speed isn't entirely about rolling resistance. Operative term is "entirely".
> We are generally in agreement. This thread is about wide rims, not wide tires. You and I both ride 2.35 tires which are relatively wide. The difference is at the bead not the tread. Wider bead- straighter sidewall- less PSI needed to avoid rim strikes and burps- same tread width- just more of it is in contact with the ground.
> You stated that it didn't make sense- I was trying to explain why people are trying wider rims. I have. Went from a 23mm inner width rim with a 2.35 Magic Mary to a 28mm inner width rim and the same tire and was able to drop 5psi and corner noticeably faster. You can try it- or continue to insult people you've never met on forums.


First off I'm not trying to insult you. It's just an opinion. An Internet opinion for that matter and we all know how those go. I agree with wider rims for all mountain or enduro, but not for Dh. Ride what you like... It's all good


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## Dpca10 (Sep 13, 2012)

To settle this from someone who rides a lot of wide and regular rims. Wide rims absolutely increase traction, counterintuitively it is noticible that on the uphills they actually decrease rolling resistance. Ibis says this is because of reduced deflection with the larger volume. 
The benefits are biggest when running tubeless at low pressures
The benefits seem compounded on larger diameter rims
The offerings are almost all carbon because trading these benefits for increased rotational weight would probably lead to mixed reviews. 

My thoughts on the pros? 
They ride what their sponsors tell them to ride. 
Extremely rocky trails like most dh are less suitable for carbon rims. 
Dh riders are probably less affluent when viewed as a group
All this equals the pros marketing the standard Alluminum rim. This will change as wide rims get cheaper or carbon rims are more accepted for dh.


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## zoe07 (May 11, 2015)

Since I happen to see the thread mentioned "where are the wide rims in DH", will I be allowed to say we have new design rims for DH? The internal width is 31mm, the sidewall is 4.5mm. What width do you guys seek?


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

zoe07 said:


> Since I happen to see the thread mentioned "where are the wide rims in DH", will I be allowed to say we have new design rims for DH? The internal width is 31mm, the sidewall is 4.5mm. What width do you guys seek?


I'm not sure what a good internal width would be, but at least offer it in 26" as well as 27.5" & 29". That way you'll be ahead of the companies in the next coupl'a 3 yrs that are gonna be touting the new & improved 26" wider rims.


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## zoe07 (May 11, 2015)

man w/ one hand said:


> I'm not sure what a good internal width would be, but at least offer it in 26" as well as 27.5" & 29". That way you'll be ahead of the companies in the next coupl'a 3 yrs that are gonna be touting the new & improved 26" wider rims.


Thanks for your advice, it's right that 26'' is less. Mostly are in 27.5'' and 29''. We've improved one wider rim in 26'' now.


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