# XC vs. gravel bike on pavement, fine gravel, chunky gravel, XC MTB trail



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

I love the Global Cycling Network videos on YouTube, really informative and often funny.

This is a very interesting comparison. I'm 'one of those' people who wonder exactly why gravel bikes exist, no offense to anyone. All road bike owners can buy an extra road bike wheelset and put hybrid tires on them, then go ride light gravel all day long, knock yourself out. But on a real mountain bike trail, can a gravel bike handle it? According to this video, no, not even close. You have to see the stats. Even I was surprised at how bad the gravel bike is vs. an XC bike.

You can watch the whole video first instead of scrolling down for the spoiler data below...

For light gravel, the gravel bike was slightly faster; for chunky gravel, the XC bike was slightly faster. That was more or less the expected data.

Now for the surprising data. On pavement, you'd think the gravel bike would be at least 10% faster right? Wrong. The XC bike was only a bit slower compared to the gravel bike than it was on light gravel. In other words, if the XC bike was 1% slower on light gravel, it was about 2% slower on pavement. That's shocking.

But it reinforces the opinion that gravel bikes are not the best of both worlds, in fact they may be a compromise of the worst of both worlds: not significantly faster than a light mountain bike on pavement, and much, much slower on a trail. I get that numbers are not everything, and if someone is used to a road bike, a gravel bike may be useful to kind of dip their toes in the water offroad, but are they really making the right choice? If you want to ride offroad, a relatively light hardtail is an excellent choice. You just have to get used to riding a different type of bike and some road bikers don't like that concept. Whatever, no law against being stubborn. I get the impression that many, if not most roadies look at mountain bikes the way a homeowner looks at a trailer park --- it's a trashy, obnoxious, uncultured, inferior way of riding. Again, no law against being elitist, it is what it is. I'm not naive enough to think I (or anyone else) would ever change their negative opinions of off-road riding.

For the trail data, they only show the time differences not the total times and percentage difference, so it's hard to calculate just how much better the XC bike did. But from what I saw, it just completely kicked the gravel bike's ass, almost twice as fast. That again is shocking, even to me. And this was not an all-mountain trail with jumps, drops, 8+ inch obstacles, etc. It was a flow trail with some rocks and mud.

Case closed?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Gravel bikes suck, and thats why they're so much fun. 

Its not about speed.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

You can delve into geometry and such, but to me the biggest difference between a light xc mtb bike and a "gravel" bike is that the gravel bike has drop bars. MTB bars are for control on MTB terrain, and for me, not so great for sitting and pedaling for long stretches. Drop bars are great for that. I have a Salsa Fargo - a rigid gravel/touring bike that came with 3 inch tires which are great for rough gravel, jeep roads, etc. I got a lighter set of wheels with 45mm tires for lighter gravel and rail trails.

I've had the Fargo with 3 inch tires out on light to moderate mtb trails and that's where the difference in bars and brake levers really become apparent. Drop bars just don't work very well for controlling the front end on rough stuff. You don't have the leverage, hand position or brake control you need. There's guys who can do trials stuff on a road bike, but I'm not one of them


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## copylatte (Sep 24, 2011)

I agree. Different positions for different uses. Road sizing, drop handlebars, etc are great for the road and light gravel grinding. Mtn bars and positions for dirt singletrack. Both do a better job in those areas than the other. (I didn't watch the video but if suspension was involved then it's a no brainier about off-road handling. Put a rigid fork on anything off-road and your speed slows dramatically.).

Anyhow, I love MTN biking fast and even bikepacking etc. But I also like my new gravel bike with 650b 47mm slicks. It's just a good time on the roads ...


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## root (Jan 24, 2006)

Yup, its not about speed. Its entertaining. I ride my 140 mm full squish and of course its faster on trail. I also ride the same trail on my CX/“gravel” bike occasionally. Both fun. If i use the CX though i usually ride from home to that trail, which involves a 30 mile road ride. 
Ive done the flip for a closer trail where i rode the FS which involved about a 15 mi road ride and then a short tech DH. Road ride wasnt much fun.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

I might be able to fit 28mm tires on my road bike so it won't truly double as a gravel bike, though I have ridden it on dirt and gravel roads a fair amount. Gravel bikes have a slacker HTA which provides better stability on loose surfaces than do performance road bikes.

If you compare a bunch of road, endurance and CX bikes, you'll find that the HTAs will tend to range from steeper to slacker. Gravel bikes will usually fall withing the slacker range.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Any modern mountain bike is pretty capable. But to really use what a modern bike can do, you need a real offroad trail. Riding an enduro bike on a flat path sucks pretty bad.

I can ride basically a flat path on a rigid or or gravel bike and its a blast! Its challenging again. All those boring paths I wrote off years ago are suddenly a great way to spend a few hours. Its not the same sport as mountain biking and I think its best when not used on the same type of trails. 

Anything with 2 wheels is technically "better" than a unicycle... but that doesnt mean unicycles are worthless. They're weird and fun, and same story.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

I saw that GCN video. 

I often wonder why there are so many mtn bike options now...enduro, trail, xc, freeride, downhill, urban, jump, etc. Kind of silly, isn't it? Just take the mountain bike out and ride anywhere! No need for this marketing nonsense.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

have we not beaten this dead horse enough?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> This is a very interesting comparison. I'm 'one of those' people who wonder exactly why gravel bikes exist, no offense to anyone. All road bike owners can buy an extra road bike wheelset and put hybrid tires on them, then go ride light gravel all day long, knock yourself out. But on a real mountain bike trail, can a gravel bike handle it? According to this video, no, not even close. You have to see the stats. Even I was surprised at how bad the gravel bike is vs. an XC bike. ?


28mm is the widest tire my road bike will take, lots of road bikes will only fit a 25mm. Also I'm not going to thrash my sweet road bike on chunky gravel roads.

I'd love to have a gravel bike but I'd be using it primarily on paved & gravel roads, not singletrack trails.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

richj8990 said:


> All road bike owners can buy an extra road bike wheelset and put hybrid tires on them, then go ride light gravel all day long, knock yourself out.


that is a profoundly misinformed suggestion. have you ever tried to fit something bigger than a 28mm tire in a road bike?

FWIW: a "gravel bike" is loosely defined, but the most basic definition that suits most people is that it is essentially a _road_ bike that can handle rough surfaces. you can do that on any bike that can fit a tire big enough for the terrain (depends on where you are in the world), but for some people, that requires a purpose-built bike. what's wrong with having a bike especially designed for what makes you happy?

[sarcasm]case closed![/sarcasm]


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

richj8990 said:


> I get the impression that many, if not most roadies look at mountain bikes the way a homeowner looks at a trailer park --- it's a trashy, obnoxious, uncultured, inferior way of riding. Again, no law against being elitist, it is what it is. I'm not naive enough to think I (or anyone else) would ever change their negative opinions of off-road riding.


also profoundly ignorant and assumptive. have you asked any roadies about this? most of the roadies I know are also mountain bikers. this may have been the case in the 1980s or something, but culture has evolved. mountain biking is as "elite" and full of snobs as any other country club activity.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mack_turtle said:


> also profoundly ignorant and assumptive. have you asked any roadies about this? most of the roadies I know are also mountain bikers. this may have been the case in the 1980s or something, but culture has evolved. mountain biking is as "elite" and full of snobs as any other country club activity.


x2!! I missed that part of your post rich but it's wrong to the point of being ridiculous. Pretty much every "roadie" I know also loves mountain biking, and I know lots of roadies. Your preconceived bias on this subject is really clouding your judgement.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

This quaRANTine message brought to you by richj8990.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

J.B. Weld said:


> 28mm is the widest tire my road bike will take, lots of road bikes will only fit a 25mm. Also I'm not going to thrash my sweet road bike on chunky gravel roads.
> 
> I'd love to have a gravel bike but I'd be using it primarily on paved & gravel roads, not singletrack trails.


Precisely ^^^ this. When I wanted a new road bike, I bought a gravel bike. Why? Because I want a road bike that affords slacker geo and can handle wider tires so I can do some adventuring and not worry whenever I come to a "pavement ends" sign. I put rugged 32mm road tires on my "gravel bike" and presto - I have the road bike I always wanted.

I've got a half dozen other bikes for riding singletracks. Purpose built machines. Right tool for the job, tho I don't oppose those who get a kick out of using the wrong tool for the job just for the challenge/experience/whatever.

That's the great thing about bikes. We own them. They serve us, we don't serve them. We decide. From beach cruiser to DH sled, ride whatever you like wherever you like and have a blast figuring out what you like best.
=sParty


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

mack_turtle said:


> have we not beaten this dead horse enough?


Apparently not.

rich, I really do not get your hate for road, it seems any chance you get to say something bad about it, you take it.

Is it really that bad in San Diego?

As you know, I LOVE my gravel bike, whether I'm on dirt or on pavement.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Horses for courses. Would you ride Dirty Kanza on an xc bike? Nope. Would you ride a road bike with 28mm “hybrid” tires? Nope. You’d ride a gravel bike for efficiency and comfort, both of which translate to speed over that kind of distance and terrain.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Gravel bike? Mountain bike? Ms. Phelan would like to know what the difference is.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

For the record, as a roadie I'd like to chime in that I view mountain bikers as inferior trailer trash.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Scott O said:


> For the record, as a roadie I'd like to chime in that I view mountain bikers as inferior trailer trash.


That rather dull knife cuts in both directions, Scott.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> That rather dull knife cuts in both directions, Scott.


You're right. Can you recommend a holster to carry said knife while riding or should I start a new thread for that?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

jcd46 said:


> . . .
> 
> . . . .
> 
> ...


We_ are _home to the Belgian Waffle Ride. This has got to be the most roadie friendly place I've ever lived. Not that you'll catch me on a road bike, but they are everywhere.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

On a side note, what's the difference between a CX bike and a Gravel bike?


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Why is this thread not in the gravel sub-forum?



scatterbrained said:


> On a side note, what's the difference between a CX bike and a Gravel bike?


This is another rabbit hole that never ends. The answer is kind of subjective depending on your vantage point. Do a quick search on the web for "gravel vs cyclocross bike" and get back to us in a few months after you've read all the squabling.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

mack_turtle said:


> Why is this thread not in the gravel sub-forum?
> 
> This is another rabbit hole that never ends. The answer is kind of subjective depending on your vantage point. Do a quick search on the web for "gravel vs cyclocross bike" and get back to us in a few months after you've read all the squabling.


Yeah, :lol: I've seen some of the squabbling. Funny, I remember CX bikes being a particular category of bike, until gravel came around. Now people insist it's only a CX bike if you actually use it to race CX. Personally, I just find it to be too amusing.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> x2!! I missed that part of your post rich but it's wrong to the point of being ridiculous. Pretty much every "roadie" I know also loves mountain biking, and I know lots of roadies. Your preconceived bias on this subject is really clouding your judgement.


x3! Every roadie I know loves mountain biking. Every mountain biker I know loves road riding. And they all loves CX and Gravel bikes too.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

One thing not mentioned is gear ratios.
On pavement, a CX/Gravel bike with a 44T or 48T chainring would definitely be faster than a XC bike with a 34T or 36T chainring. The same on gravel roads, jeep roads.

I ride a CX/Gravel bike on gravel roads, jeep roads and pavement, and the XC bike on trails.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Crankout said:


> I saw that GCN video.
> 
> I often wonder why there are so many mtn bike options now...enduro, trail, xc, freeride, downhill, urban, jump, etc. Kind of silly, isn't it? Just take the mountain bike out and ride anywhere! No need for this marketing nonsense.


Its what makes them money.

They will come out with some other nuance to sell to the gullible masses.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

The decomposed granite bike is in development. DCB will be the marketing term. Put yer money down!


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

scatterbrained said:


> We_ are _home to the Belgian Waffle Ride. This has got to be the most roadie friendly place I've ever lived. Not that you'll catch me on a road bike, but they are everywhere.


A classic gravel race, as it were.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Gravel bikes exist for going longer distances at a faster pace. 

I commuted 38+ miles round trip for a year and a half; more often on a gravel bike and mixed it up with 3 different 29er's (two rigid SS and one FS). I had the option of hitting some single track along the commute route and found it not so comfy on the drop bar gravel bike (for my 50+ year old bones).

I have pedaled all of the bikes 90+ miles in a day and on anything other trails, overall comfort is similar enough that I'm happy to grab any one of them.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

scatterbrained said:


> On a side note, what's the difference between a CX bike and a Gravel bike?


Plenty of info out there on this; there are key differences.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Scott O said:


> You're right. Can you recommend a holster to carry said knife while riding or should I start a new thread for that?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Fanny pack for a knife, hip mount for your Colt .45...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

matt4x4 said:


> Its what makes them money.
> 
> They will come out with some other nuance to sell to the gullible masses.


Stupid gullible masses and their dumb nice bikes.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

Well heck, now my youtube "recommended" feed is showing gravel vs. road bike vids.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

the one ring said:


> Well heck, now my youtube "recommended" feed is showing gravel vs. road bike vids.


Mine is showing the benefits of a fanny pack vs an awesome strap.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> Stupid gullible masses and their dumb nice bikes.


How dare people have choices on what they want to buy.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

What're y'all gonna do when there are no more gravel roads because they've all been paved?


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Train Wreck said:


> What're y'all gonna do when there are no more gravel roads because they've all been paved?


That's a real struggle around here, actually. organizers who plan gravel races want their customers to have the most rugged country road experience possible, but economic development in the region means more and more rural areas are getting their roads "upgraded" to actual pavement. good for those residents! I'd hate to live on a dirt road that turns to mud every time it rains, and blows dust everywhere when a car passes, but it makes finding remote routes on dirt harder and harder to do.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

If the economy crumbles so will the pavement. Might be a good time to pick up a gravel bike.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> If the economy crumbles so will the pavement. Might be a good time to pick up a gravel bike.


nah, you need a Trek Broadsider


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

edubfromktown said:


> Gravel bikes exist for going longer distances at a faster pace.
> 
> I commuted 38+ miles round trip for a year and a half; more often on a gravel bike and mixed it up with 3 different 29er's (two rigid SS and one FS). I had the option of hitting some single track along the commute route and found it not so comfy on the drop bar gravel bike (for my 50+ year old bones).
> 
> I have pedaled all of the bikes 90+ miles in a day and on anything other trails, overall comfort is similar enough that I'm happy to grab any one of them.


This post summarizes it very well. I didn't commute that far, but I've done centuries on my mtb on dirt, road rides in groups, and centuries on my road bike. They can all work and the mtb is the most flexible and with some tweaking it can even be ridden on the road quiet well, but each has its niche.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mack_turtle said:


> nah, you need a Trek Broadsider


Need more gear, them zombies will run you down.

If a mountain bike is pretty much the same as a gravel bike and a gravel bike is mostly the same as a road bike I wonder why some of those weenies riding in the Tour de France don't just ride a mountain bike?


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Train Wreck said:


> What're y'all gonna do when there are no more gravel roads because they've all been paved?


With the economy the way it is, there will be less paved roads, and more potholes in the paved roads.

Time to buy a full suspension mountain bike.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Gravel bikes have their place but not where they are being marketed. 

If I am going to be riding on dirt, 9 times out of 10 I am much happier on a mountain bike. And the time that I am happier on a gravel bike, it is so smooth that a road bike with wide tires works great.

The quandary is mixed surface rides. Long pavement rides on mountain bikes sucks, the spacing on the gears is wrong, you are sitting up in the wind, and flat bars do not offer the ability to switch up hand positions. Mountain bikes work on the road, but there is no joy in riding them on the road. Off road when going uphill and on flats both mountain bikes and gravel bikes work. The big difference is when going downhill. Mountain bikes are fun to descend on, gravel bikes are not. Your neck and hands get sore and you are terrified the entire time.

I use my gravel bike on rides that are 50% pavement and 50% dirt. Around here we have lots of great loops that are like that. But if I am actually doing a backroad ride that is entirely dirt, I am riding my XC bike.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

mack_turtle said:


> nah, you need a Trek Broadsider


Ummm...wtf is that monstrosity of discomfort? Oy.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Crankout said:


> Ummm...wtf is that monstrosity of discomfort? Oy.


did you read the text above the photo? Google that, it's not difficult. it's ridiculous.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Because I can't believe what I just read, I'll ask incredulously:
Did Trek have industrial designers create a bike themed comic book, and then a bike based on said comic book? 
I must be some sort of visionary, I have this crazy idea where artists and writers draw and write comic books, and bike builders build bikes.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Gravel bikes ARE Road bikes. They are Road bikes that don't suck on gravel roads. What we commonly call "road" bikes should more accurately be called Pavement bikes.

IMO, the issue is not why people buy Gravel bikes, but rather why so many people by Pavement bikes that can't even clear a set of 32s.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Train Wreck said:


> What're y'all gonna do when there are no more gravel roads because they've all been paved?


Well, as mtb trails got smoother, the bikes got bigger, so maybe the same thing will happen with Gravel bikes


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

kapusta said:


> IMO, the issue is not why people buy Gravel bikes, but rather why so many people by Pavement bikes that can't even clear a set of 32s.


Thankfully most new road bikes are getting close to that or are already there. My old (2010) one easily accommodates 28's. Love my pavement bike!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

LMN said:


> The quandary is mixed surface rides. Long pavement rides on mountain bikes sucks, the spacing on the gears is wrong, you are sitting up in the wind, and flat bars do not offer the ability to switch up hand positions. Mountain bikes work on the road, but there is no joy in riding them on the road. Off road when going uphill and on flats both mountain bikes and gravel bikes work. The big difference is when going downhill. Mountain bikes are fun to descend on, gravel bikes are not. Your neck and hands get sore and you are terrified the entire time.


This. It's a fun challenge riding my CX on mountain bike trails. It's brilliant on smoother sections and sometimes somewhat frightening on rough descents.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

mack_turtle said:


> nah, you need a Trek Broadsider


I googled that up and by the images that came up, this seems like the best bike you could ever have for skidding down double track.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

chazpat said:


> This. It's a fun challenge riding my CX on mountain bike trails. It's brilliant on smoother sections and sometimes somewhat frightening on rough descents.


Yup, it's a different kind of fun. Mind you I don't do it often, but I've taken my CX a couple times on our local DH trail. Ride the climb up the road then "bomb" (more like crawl along picking lines) down the trail that most guys are shuttling up then hitting with 6" min DS bikes. I usually do this trail with my Yeti SB140, but the occasional silliness reminds you of where you came from, we used to ride this same trail decades ago.
More often I ride the CX on the newschool flowy trail that has recently been made. Again, it schools you on line choice.
And the last time I participated in our local century ride, long ago, I did the 25 mile distance, on a bike set up for stock trials. Took me 6 hours, but I hung out at all the rest stops, ate the food, popped wheelies for the kids. 
It's good to mix it up.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

mack_turtle said:


> did you read the text above the photo? Google that, it's not difficult. it's ridiculous.


Ah; thanks for that advice! Yup, still goofy as anything.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

Crankout said:


> Ah; thanks for that advice! Yup, still goofy as anything.


Thank Dog they padded the top tube.


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