# Opinion on the Stumpjumper re-issues?



## Linoleum (Aug 25, 2008)

I was surprised to see a sparkly new, vintage looking ride at my local Specialized dealer today. The flashy SRAM drivetrain looked out of place but otherwise the bullmoose handlebars, skinwall tires, and old school forks looked great. No real point here, just wanted to see if anyone else had seen one!

Rich


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## gsomtb (Jul 18, 2007)

Haven't seen one yet....I'll ask next time n the shop.

What's old is new................


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## cousineddie (Oct 23, 2008)

Saw one on Ebay a while back with a BIN of around $800. No takers. Weren't these roughly $1500 new? I guess there's not much love for a retro bike with Hollowtech cranks and a 27 speed drivetrain.


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

The 2007 version rides Exactly like the 1981 and the 1982 that we have at the shop. The bikes are on 'blow out' from your local Specy dealer. $1300 was advertised retail.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

It was a great concept, but poorly executed (IMO). 

The fact that they were made 2 years ago and were supposed to be "limited" production and they have to resort to blowing them out now will tell you how popular they were. Now if they would just offer those tires...


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Nice tires. Nice color.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

banks said:


> The 2007 version rides Exactly like the 1981 and the 1982 that we have at the shop. The bikes are on 'blow out' from your local Specy dealer. $1300 was advertised retail.


So, do all Specalized dealers have them? I really wanted one but didn't want to pony up the almost $1,300 new. $800 is a lot but more in line.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Pics?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Isn't there one on ebay right now? I agree with Mike; poorly executed. They shoulda hired us as consultants. Not doing that was their first mistake of many.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

I remember seeing something about these and thinking the drivetrain was COMPLETELY wrong.

I'm going to try to dig up a pic...

EDIT-Found it:

 2007 Stumpjumper Classic










Stumpjumper Classic

Competitive XC Hardtail
Like the original, the Stumpjumper Classic guarantees a true connection to the ground, efficiency, and light weight. We like going fast and have been throwing a leg over a Stumpjumper for over 25 years. The Classic is a celebration of a quarter century of speed, fun, and adventure.

Features:
* Stumpjumper Classic frame, Tange Cro-Mo tubing, original Stumpjumper geometry, 19" only
* Cro-Mo fork for SJ Classic frame, 1" threaded steerer, investment cast crown
* Cro-Mo one piece bar/stem combo
* SRAM X.0, 9-speed rear derailleur and X.O carbon/aluminum shifters
* Shimano M-760 XT Hollow Tech II, 2pc crank/BB
* Classic Ground Control tires, 26x2.0"

Specs


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

I haven't been able to find one for $800, but at that price, you could part it and be ahead or close. What do NOS GC's go for? Seems like there would be a good market for the tires alone.

They could make GC's in 29" and have some tidy sales. The R&D department wouldn't be too happy though.

-Schmitty-


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## esilvassy (Jul 25, 2006)

never really paid much attention when they first came out, but that crank is all bad.
completely kills it for me.

a little work and paul thumbies and different crank, it would be much better.

So whats the story with the tires? Specialized made enough for the re-issue and ignored requests for some more? You would think that making some more even for replacements for the reissues would not have been that much more of an outlay. Then we could swoop in and grab the extras. there I go thinking again


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Schmitty said:


> I haven't been able to find one for $800, but at that price, you could part it and be ahead or close. What do NOS GC's go for? Seems like there would be a good market for the tires alone.
> 
> They could make GC's in 29" and have some tidy sales. The R&D department wouldn't be too happy though.
> 
> -Schmitty-


It's a new mold for the tires, and they look similar, but not the genuine article. The casing and label look different too. NOS GC's can go for ~$150/pair I think. The most famous tire ever I would say. Certainly the most famous vintage tire.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

#19

why go through the trouble of making the tires and not selling them?


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

With a littld work, you could make the Stumpy look nice. The crank are horrible, and the reminder of the drive train is pretty bogus. A nice square taper crank set and Paul's thumbie adapters would have made that bike look 100% nicer.


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## cousineddie (Oct 23, 2008)

hollister said:


> #19
> 
> why go through the trouble of making the tires and not selling them?


Is the seattube ovalized at the bb like the original?

I agree it makes no sense for them not to sell the tires seperately. The decision was probably the result of poor market research on their part.


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## cousineddie (Oct 23, 2008)

laffeaux said:


> With a littld work, you could make the Stumpy look nice. The crank are horrible, and the reminder of the drive train is pretty bogus. A nice square taper crank set and Paul's thumbie adapters would have made that bike look 100% nicer.


Agreed, but why bother when nice originals are available at a fraction of the price?


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## -Anomie- (Jan 16, 2005)

I just called Specialized and asked about buying a set of the tires, but they don't have them in inventory and there is no indication that they'll be selling them. I'm going to to try another tack to see if I can get through to someone higher up the management chain, but it doesn't look good. It might help if anyone who is interested in these tires were to send Specialized an email suggesting that they offer them in their online store: [email protected]


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Seriously though, if someone advertised a brand new pair of GC's on this site and/or Ebay, what do you think they would sell for?

The XT crank is a bad spec for that bike, but a great crank for a modern bike, and worth some cash.

-Schmitty-


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Schmitty said:


> Seriously though, if someone advertised a brand new pair of GC's on this site and/or Ebay, what do you think they would sell for?
> 
> The XT crank is a bad spec for that bike, but a great crank for a modern bike, and worth some cash.
> 
> -Schmitty-


Do you mean the new mold or the old mold? Old mold NOS recently got $175.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

I'll need an education as to new/old mold. What's the story?

Is that 175/pr?

-Schmitty-


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Schmitty said:


> I'll need an education as to new/old mold. What's the story?
> 
> Is that 175/pr?
> 
> -Schmitty-


Specialized scrapped the original GC mold. The tires on the anniversary bike are a different tire/mold altogether, but it looks similar.

See post #13.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

If you dig back to old threads, this topic and more so the topic of the tires has been discussed. 

I want to say quite a few people yelled and made a fuss over reissuing those tires and offering them for sale. I'm positive they'd do well. 

But no...Specialized dropped the ball all the way around here I think. Such a simple deal too.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Specialized scrapped the original GC mold. The tires on the anniversary bike are a different tire/mold altogether, but it looks similar.
> 
> See post #13.


What's different about them specifically?

-Schmitty-


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

Rumpfy said:


> If you dig back to old threads, this topic and more so the topic of the tires has been discussed.
> 
> I want to say quite a few people yelled and made a fuss over reissuing those tires and offering them for sale. I'm positive they'd do well.
> 
> But no...Specialized dropped the ball all the way around here I think. Such a simple deal too.


How successful has the sales of Timbuk II re-issue been for First Flight?

Specialized isn't stupid, i'm sure they've done their market research. If there's money to be made, they'll do it.

On the other hand, maybe it just hasn't occurred to them although I know this has come up before and they haven't been interested.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Slimpee said:


> How successful has the sales of Timbuk II re-issue been for First Flight?


We sell about 100 a year which is probably why Specialized had no interest in doing a tire. The volume likely isn't there. We are down to our last 20 or so tires from this batch and won't have them again until April/May and it looks like the price will be $5 higher per tire on the next batch.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

I suspect there's plenty more to it than making money. You gotta figure *anything* Specialized puts it's name on will sell a pretty hefty amount at the least (ask any LBS). So this in combination with their marketing would surely make it a profitable deal for Specialized. The Timbuk II while a cool tire 'aint a GC either in performance or name recognition. I never even knew First Flight was selling TT2's.. big difference between the 'Big S' really beating the drum on a product, and someone else selling them.

Definitely not a 'yes' or 'no' decision for Specialized.

-Schmitty-


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

I wonder how much more successful the bike would have been if specialized would have made a few changes to the spec:

Sugino square taper cranks instead of modern XT

Paul's thumbie mounts w/ bar-end shifters to work with modern 9 speed drivetrain

XT rear derailleur (afterall, XT existed in the early 80s whereas SRAM did not)

Pauls neo-retro brakes

I would think that the cheaper crank would somewhat balance out the greater expense for the Pauls parts. I think it would have more accurately captured the spirit of the original bike.

For the blow-out prices these are being offered, seems like a cheap way to get a nice XT/XO drivetrain for cheap. I wish these came in a large frame size. It would be kinda cool to grab all the good drivetrain parts and replace them with Shimano XT 7 speed thumbies w/ extra click, 8 speed cassette, 8 speed derailleur, and older crankset and sell the bike to recoup a bit of the cost.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Schmitty said:


> I suspect there's plenty more to it than making money. You gotta figure *anything* Specialized puts it's name on will sell a pretty hefty amount at the least (ask any LBS). So this in combination with their marketing would surely make it a profitable deal for Specialized. The Timbuk II while a cool tire 'aint a GC either in performance or name recognition. I never even knew First Flight was selling TT2's.. big difference between the 'Big S' really beating the drum on a product, and someone else selling them.
> 
> Definitely not a 'yes' or 'no' decision for Specialized.
> 
> -Schmitty-


We tried going through Specialized, Ritchey, Bontrager/Trek/Klein/Fisher to try and do a natural skin wall tire and nobody was interested. Panaracer may not have been our first choice but they are nice tires and they were willing to make them.

I have no illusion that we have but a small fraction of Specialized's marketing ability but if there was enough money to be made......they would be there!

I supposed since silver parts are making a come back, skin wall tires might be the next retro-inspired trend??


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Yeah, seems like they did an excellent job of creating a bike that talks to exactly nobody. Great thing is someone porbably pulling 6 figures dreamt it up.

Just bough an xt crank a few weeks ago. Wish I had known about this then.....still doesn't quite pencil out, even with the crank and tires. I can't see the frame/fork bringing that much money, and the rest is ho hum.. especially in light of what's been available on the used market.. you can get an original in great shape for a fraction of the price.


-Schmitty-


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## gsomtb (Jul 18, 2007)

I agree completely with Bikerboy and the others....was about to post the same thing.
Neo-retro is really cool if done correctly.

This is OT, but I wonder what the costs would be for Shimano to bring back some 7 spd thumbs? Maybe reconfig'd for 8/9 or now 10 spd? 
Just food for thought.......


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

gsomtb said:


> This is OT, but I wonder what the costs would be for Shimano to bring back some 7 spd thumbs? Maybe reconfig'd for 8/9 or now 10 spd?
> Just food for thought.......


Paul already makes an adapter to let you run any Shimano barcon shifter as a thumb shifter. This is what should have been on the Stumpy. 

http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbmtn.html


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

gsomtb said:


> I agree completely with Bikerboy and the others....was about to post the same thing.
> Neo-retro is really cool if done correctly.
> 
> This is OT, but I wonder what the costs would be for Shimano to bring back some 7 spd thumbs? Maybe reconfig'd for 8/9 or now 10 spd?
> Just food for thought.......


If you've ever taken a pair apart, the gist of it is a hardened metal plate with seven detents in it in and a bearing that gets sandwiched on top, and then rides the circular path over the detents (clicks). Change the number and spacing of detents, and wammo, more speeds. Also, 7 spd thumbies rock 8 spd just fine, and are pretty available on Ebay.

I would bet my life that somewhere floating around Shimano, are 8,9 maybe even 10 spd thumbies. Same deal though, these companies are generally in business for innovation, forward movement, etc. Going backwards is just that. They spend $$$$$ on R&D, and marketing to move things forward. Don't get me wrong, I think there's room for *well executed* trips back in time, but I think it's not that viable business wise for the most part.
And you never know what kind of licensing/royalties/intellectual prop. right stuff is happening.

-Schmitty-


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

When Specialized held its press camp last summer, they put all the journalists on those bikes and had me set them up for a run down Repack. Specialized even issued everyone old jeans and a variety of thrift-store shirts meant to evoke one photograph of Gary Fisher that forever became the stereotype. At least they wore helmets.

Here is a YouTube video made by one of those riders. I told them not to try to set the record on their first run, but they just wouldn't listen.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

gsomtb said:


> This is OT, but I wonder what the costs would be for Shimano to bring back some 7 spd thumbs? Maybe reconfig'd for 8/9 or now 10 spd?
> Just food for thought.......


I talked w/ a Shimano rep about this very thing last weekend and he said that although lots of people have asked about it he didn't think it would happen anytime soon.

I suspect that somebody will come out w/ a top-mount shifter, however, given their simplicity and effectiveness.

I can't imagine they'd be terribly hard or expensive to manufacture so I bet you could mark 'em up a bit and see a nice profit.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Paul already makes an adapter to let you run any Shimano barcon shifter as a thumb shifter. This is what should have been on the Stumpy.
> 
> http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbmtn.html


Yep, somebody already suggested that Paul's thumbie mounts would have been perfect for the bike. Oh wait, that was me and the person you had replied had just replied to what I said about those components. See, a few posts up.

I just think it is funny how much of what I post seems to get overlooked, oh well.


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## gsomtb (Jul 18, 2007)

*Eyeballs*



bikerboy said:


> Yep, somebody already suggested that Paul's thumbie mounts would have been perfect for the bike. Oh wait, that was me and the person you had replied had just replied to what I said about those components. See, a few posts up.
> 
> I just think it is funny how much of what I post seems to get overlooked, oh well.


I'm lookin, I'm lookin....


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## gsomtb (Jul 18, 2007)

*Thoughts..*



Repack Rider said:


> When Specialized held its press camp last summer, they put all the journalists on those bikes and had me set them up for a run down Repack. Specialized even issued everyone old jeans and a variety of thrift-store shirts meant to evoke one photograph of Gary Fisher that forever became the stereotype. At least they wore helmets.
> 
> Here is a YouTube video made by one of those riders. I told them not to try to set the record on their first run, but they just wouldn't listen.


What did you think about the bikes?


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

gsomtb said:


> What did you think about the bikes?


I was thinking that it sure was a lot of trouble to go to for something that couldn't possibly make money. Why would anyone want one of these bikes? So you could ride around on the bicycle equivalent of a Model T? There has been a lot of progress since then, and those weren't even that good a bike in the original incarnation.

No way you'll ever get the TA cranks or the Mafac brakes to put together an original package. Should have spent that money on more beer.


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## gsomtb (Jul 18, 2007)

*Oh yeah*



Repack Rider said:


> I was thinking that it sure was a lot of trouble to go to for something that couldn't possibly make money. Why would anyone want one of these bikes? So you could ride around on the bicycle equivalent of a Model T? There has been a lot of progress since then, and those weren't even that good a bike in the original incarnation.
> 
> No way you'll ever get the TA cranks or the Mafac brakes to put together an original package. Should have spent that money on more beer.


More beer......

Model T equiv - nice one.

I really like neo-retro but just can't see spending that type of coin on something like that.....just don't see it handling well at all.....maybe if I had huge $$$$$, wanted a conversation piece and if it were in line with the suggestions we've voiced here.

A reissue of some of the old Bridgestones and the like or what GT is doing with the Zaskar is more of what I'd be interested in.


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## fawkinhell (Feb 19, 2008)

Seems SBC missed an opportunity to market an unsuspended 26" "mountain bike" with adequate parts, that could have been a killer utility bike. Maybe model it after the 90'-91' Stumpjumper geometry. I see more SJs' of that era pastured out to fendered commuter bikes. Kinda sad.


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

fawkinhell said:


> Seems SBC missed an opportunity to market an unsuspended 26" "mountain bike" with adequate parts, that could have been a killer utility bike. Maybe model it after the 90'-91' Stumpjumper geometry. I see more SJs' of that era pastured out to fendered commuter bikes. Kinda sad.


But then we'd rip SBC a new one for trading on the historic VRC name Stumpjumper to sell cheap utility bikes. No win.

You are right though, my 95 SJ has 1.5 tires and is my utility bike, no fenders needed in Arizona though:thumbsup:


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

fawkinhell said:


> Seems SBC missed an opportunity to market an unsuspended 26" "mountain bike" with adequate parts, that could have been a killer utility bike. Maybe model it after the 90'-91' Stumpjumper geometry. I see more SJs' of that era pastured out to fendered commuter bikes. Kinda sad.


You'd have to sell 'em for $300 to move any. Nobody wants a $1200 fully-rigid 26er on any sort of a large-scale.

No money


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## campisi (Dec 20, 2004)

Just like Slimpee said, no one would buy them. The people that would care about a 'killer utility bike' would just go to CL and buy a 90 - 91 SJ (or whatever their fancy is), slap on some fenders and be done with it for <$300. Losing proposition for Specialized.


MTA - sorry for the post in the wrong place in the thread - this was supposed to be in response to a post by fawkinhell down in the thread.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Schmitty said:


> these companies are generally in business for innovation, forward movement, etc. Going backwards is just that. They spend $$$$$ on R&D, and marketing to move things forward. Don't get me wrong, I think there's room for *well executed* trips back in time, but I think it's not that viable business wise for the most part. And you never know what kind of licensing/royalties/intellectual prop. right stuff is happening.
> 
> -Schmitty-


Shimano, SRAM, Campy and a few others are in it for the innovation because it keeps their doors open. Bike companies have no choice / are forced to follow...they can only spec what's on the "MENU" that's offered. if they don't they are soon out casts from the market component mold set forth by the component companies. OK so you're saying all these simple fixies and townie bikes are an attempt to "move things forward"? I agree with the fact that getting more people on a bike regardless of what it is...is what the industries trying to do....but why put someone on a 35-40 lb townie bike with a 7 lb fork that will never get pedaled more than 3-5 miles at a time....When you can build comfort, features and a lighter weight bike that's more enjoyable to ride FOR THE SAME PRICE. Market niche/segmentation I feel is killing the industry. The industry has become a 100 miles wide and a half mile deep and all it takes is a little recession and whamo...the industries going to be hurting. Too many companies are trying to be too many things to fit everyone and in the end if they look at each market they try to accommodate as a profit center they are probably finding right now that they will find this year that they will have 60% of their bike product categories making profit and 40% that won't....not the 80/20 they need for survival. Specialization is different. Those that have an identified category for their product will become a leader in it and stay there until someone comes along and does what they do better or for less. Look at the size of a QBP, Specialized or Trek catalog......forests are going to be gone soon! 20% of the product offered in those catalogs will sufficiently supply 80% of the market with what they need. So why confuse the customer when all you want them to do is buy a bike and enjoy it. I hate to use this word but we've seen the "liberalization" of the bike industry just like all other industries and it's not healthy because there is little bottom line. Just like in government. I can't believe that Shimano, SRAM and Campy have product managers knocking down their doors saying we need this or that type of product. One would think that with some of the bike companies being publicly traded their would be more control over what's offered in the market. It's a runaway train the past 10 years. How many sub-classes has mountain biking now become? SS/FXE, DH, Freeride, All mountain, Hardtail, Front Suspension, Rear Suspension, motorized, quadruple boing boing, 650B, 29er, SS 29er, 69er, SS 69er, 96er, city bike, hybrid...what next? Do you suppose the 24 hour guys are going to get a water bed cushioned recumbent that's easier on the bod over 24 hours?

Didn't mean to rant and sorry it got so long. Just an opinion that in these times letting the market come to the product is better than the product trying to make/be the market. After all the market can only buy what's available. I would think almost any company would do a small run of older product during their down time.

So NAHBS is this weekend and I'm sure all the majors product managers from the majors will be striding down the aisles or staring at all the pics on line to see what they can respond to the quickest. Anybody out there going or already there?

Does anybody think there will be a year or two down the road when Vintage/Retro will be the Neon of the industry for a year or two....when 80% of the companies try it the same year? When enough product managers think there's a 2% tiny market segment and they do knock the major suppliers doors to put the old tooling in and break out the old molds?


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

The reality of re-issuing things like thumbshifters and Ground Control tires is that the market is incredibly tiny. There's what, 50 of us here, maybe 50 at retrobike.uk, another 50 at mtb-news.de - all with plenty of overlap. Okay, there's probably a few more than that. But the point is that a company like Specialized of Shimano (or a suspension company who we might want to re-issue a 63-75mm travel 1" steerer fork) isn't going to open tooling and start production on anything unless they can make _and sell_ 10's of thousands of units.

We sit here and babble amongst ourselves and think the vintage thing is huge and it does seem like it's big to us. However, in the grand scheme of the bike industry, we are a spec of dust on the radar screen and if you sneeze if goes away.

Folks want a reissue of an old Bridgestone? Get a Rivendell or better yet, have a custom frame made.

Bottom line, if I want to build up an old bike period correct, there are already plenty of thumb shifters on the market. But if I want something new, the new XT can't be beat. Part of the attraction to some of the old parts is just that, they are old and they bring back great memories to crusty old geezers.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

ssmike said:


> We sit here and babble amongst ourselves and think the vintage thing is huge and it does seem like it's big to us. However, in the grand scheme of the bike industry, we are a spec of dust on the radar screen and if you sneeze if goes away.


Nail on the head! Like I said earlier, the biggies aren't stupid. If there's money to be made they'll do it. If not, they won't bother.


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## -Anomie- (Jan 16, 2005)

While I agree with Mike and think he did hit the nail on the head, when a company like Specialized already has the molds made and the materials available, to me it makes sense to offer a few sets of retro tires to our tiny market segment. They aren't going to sell 10's of thousands, maybe only a couple hundred, but still it makes an impact when you are the only major manufacturer willing to cater to us "old" guys. Even if they don't make dime off the re-issues, if nothing else they will still get some free advertising for the novelty aspect.


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## esilvassy (Jul 25, 2006)

The really odd part is they already did all the work to re-make a mold and produce the tires.
You would think they would have wanted to make a larger run to try and recoup the cost.
I am not talking about thousands of extras, but even just enough to use a spares for the re-issues.


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

ssmike said:


> ...bring back great memories to crusty old geezers.


Smile when you say that.

Really summed it up, though.


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## fawkinhell (Feb 19, 2008)

> You'd have to sell 'em for $300 to move any. Nobody wants a $1200 fully-rigid 26er on any sort of a large-scale.


Oh, they'd sell for at least $500. I'm talking about a work-a-day, unsuspended mountain bike with ample rack and fender mounts, that wouldn't need to be suspension corrected. Not everybody wants to ride around on 700Cs.


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## fawkinhell (Feb 19, 2008)

> Just like Slimpee said, no one would buy them. The people that would care about a 'killer utility bike' would just go to CL and buy a 90 - 91 SJ (or whatever their fancy is), slap on some fenders and be done with it for <$300. Losing proposition for Specialized.


There are more people who DON'T want to deal with craigslist/ebay than who will. I work in a prominent NW shop, and the number of mid-range bikes that go out the door with slicks and racks is insane. It would do well. Maybe not in SoCal.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

fawkinhell said:


> There are more people who DON'T want to deal with craigslist/ebay than who will. I work in a prominent NW shop, and the number of mid-range bikes that go out the door with slicks and racks is insane. It would do well. Maybe not in SoCal.


Actually, this subject really touches a nerve with me. I too believe there are a lot of potential bike buyers who want a $500 fully rigid (and I'm not even going to call it a mountain bike) bike with 26" wheels with a sensible riding position (a more swept back bar compared to the current mountain bike bars), ability to install mud guards and racks easy and made in Taiwan instead of China (for some reason "made in China" turns off some people - but that's a totally different, and not appropriate for this forum, subject). It would do well in SoCal too.

The problem with this bike is that it's not understood by most shops. The ones who get it, get it and are in the minority. Actually, the DiamondBack Transporter was pretty close. But after 2 years, DB axed it. You aren't going to see this bike from a company like Specialized whose motto is "Innovate of Die." But there are other companies who are trying to make this bike but are missing the mark by being too cutesy or appealing to the sickeningly hip urban crowd. Or pricing themselves out of the market by using internally geared hubs which are very cool, but very expensive compared to a derailer system. Sure, make an option with an internal gear (but dial in the chainring size and cog size so the gearing is decent - too many are geared too high).

You can kind of see this is a bike I'm passionate about and I hope the industry makes it (or I'm going to have to make it for them...hmmm.......). It can be done.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

ssmike said:


> Actually, this subject really touches a nerve with me. I too believe there are a lot of potential bike buyers who want a $500 fully rigid (and I'm not even going to call it a mountain bike) bike with 26" wheels with a sensible riding position (a more swept back bar compared to the current mountain bike bars), ability to install mud guards and racks easy and made in Taiwan instead of China (for some reason "made in China" turns off some people - but that's a totally different, and not appropriate for this forum, subject). It would do well in SoCal too.
> 
> The problem with this bike is that it's not understood by most shops. The ones who get it, get it and are in the minority. Actually, the DiamondBack Transporter was pretty close. But after 2 years, DB axed it. You aren't going to see this bike from a company like Specialized whose motto is "Innovate of Die." But there are other companies who are trying to make this bike but are missing the mark by being too cutesy or appealing to the sickeningly hip urban crowd. Or pricing themselves out of the market by using internally geared hubs which are very cool, but very expensive compared to a derailer system. Sure, make an option with an internal gear (but dial in the chainring size and cog size so the gearing is decent - too many are geared too high).
> 
> You can kind of see this is a bike I'm passionate about and I hope the industry makes it (or I'm going to have to make it for them...hmmm.......). It can be done.


In all this talk of either whole bikes, or selling GC's by themselves, I don't think it's as black and white as 'there's only 50 vintage guys spread across 3 web sites'. There's a large (I'm thinking way larger than the vintage crowd) group out there who would buys these things having no idea about the history. GC's for instance would be a great all around replacement tire for anyone needing to get their dry rotted oem's of their low-mid range bike.

I remember selling the Velociraptors back in the day when they were the cats pajamas. We sold the pants off them to everyone from hardcores, to folks dusting of their bikes after 5 years and getting a full over haul.

ANYTHING that Specialized comes out with (small parts), AND ACTUALLY SUPPLIES, sells like mad. Seems to me like the GC could be a real 'double edged sword' in that respect. Plain old replacement 26" tire, AND great vintage replacement.

I still contend that in the case of the GC, there is much more at work than market forces. Read: politics, ego, emotion, legalities, etc. "Innovate or die" sounds even more lame when a tire that came out 20+ years ago outsells most everything you've come out with since.. which is what I suspect would be the case if they had never stopped makng them.

-Schmitty-

"Reintroduce or Die"


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

ssmike said:


> Actually, this subject really touches a nerve with me. I too believe there are a lot of potential bike buyers who want a $500 fully rigid (and I'm not even going to call it a mountain bike) bike with 26" wheels with a sensible riding position (a more swept back bar compared to the current mountain bike bars), ability to install mud guards and racks easy and ...


I see tons of cruiser bikes used for commuters near me. The cruiser seem to be filling the space vacated by the shops that see bikes as a form of recreation/excercise, instead of seeing it as a mode of transportation.

As fas the Specialized tire goes... I agree that making a reissue makes little sense monitarily for these companies. On the other hand, Specialized already spent the money to make the tire. Why not produce a few hundred or few thousand extra? The minor earnings may help pay off the tooling cost which has already been spent.


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## rockychrysler (Aug 9, 2003)

bushpig said:


> Nice tires. Nice color.


i pestered our rep for an entire summer trying to get ahold of those new ground controls. his answer was "no" at every turn.


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## campisi (Dec 20, 2004)

fawkinhell said:


> There are more people who DON'T want to deal with craigslist/ebay than who will. I work in a prominent NW shop, and the number of mid-range bikes that go out the door with slicks and racks is insane. It would do well. Maybe not in SoCal.


You're probably right about that - I just see things from my perspective I guess. I got my 83 SJ off CL for $60. It has the ability to mount fenders and racks, simple 7speed drivetrain. I put some fenders on and some Town & Country tires and I have my killer utility bike. Way less than $100 total.


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

I find it funny that there's all this talk about how Specialized would never put into production the GC tires because they're so smart and do all this research into profitability and they know there would never be a market for them, yet they spent all kinds of money on this stupid Stumpy reissue that they're having to blow out on sell out.


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## halaburt (Jan 13, 2004)

Schmitty said:


> I still contend that in the case of the GC, there is much more at work than market forces. Read: politics, ego, emotion, legalities, etc. "Innovate or die" sounds even more lame when a tire that came out 20+ years ago outsells most everything you've come out with since.. which is what I suspect would be the case if they had never stopped makng them.


I may be completely mis-remembering history here, but weren't the GC and all the other Specialized tires from that era designs from the WTB gang?... with even Alice B. Toeclips providing the name "Ground Control"? Once WTB started producing their own tires, Specialized presumably switched to other and/or in-house designers and soon dropped many/most of those WTB-designs from their lineup.

I have no idea, but it's possible that their licensing and/or design contract with WTB had some sort of royalties or other restrictions which would now be difficult to deal with?

-Geoff


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

halaburt said:


> I may be completely mis-remembering history here, but weren't the GC and all the other Specialized tires from that era designs from the WTB gang?... with even Alice B. Toeclips providing the name "Ground Control"? Once WTB started producing their own tires, Specialized presumably switched to other and/or in-house designers and soon dropped many/most of those WTB-designs from their lineup.
> 
> I have no idea, but it's possible that their licensing and/or design contract with WTB had some sort of royalties or other restrictions which would now be difficult to deal with?
> 
> -Geoff


Yes your right.. adding to the pot of issues at hand. Trust me, it's not a cut and dry money issue. And guys.. keep in mind... anybody whiois *truly* concerned only about the bottom line wouldn't be in the bike industry. Even our big boys pale in compariosn to just about any other field. Slight exageration, but you know what I mean.

-Schmitty-


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## fawkinhell (Feb 19, 2008)

> Posted by Campisi
> You're probably right about that - I just see things from my perspective I guess. I got my 83 SJ off CL for $60. It has the ability to mount fenders and racks, simple 7speed drivetrain. I put some fenders on and some Town & Country tires and I have my killer utility bike. Way less than $100 total.


SCORE! Why don't I have that kinda luck?


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## gsomtb (Jul 18, 2007)

*Yep*



sho220 said:


> I find it funny that there's all this talk about how Specialized would never put into production the GC tires because they're so smart and do all this research into profitability and they know there would never be a market for them, yet they spent all kinds of money on this stupid Stumpy reissue that they're having to blow out on sell out.


Well put.
I think we give these big companies way too much credit. They simply aren't THAT smart.
IMO, many of them are lumbering giants that more often than not get in their own way.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

I guess this is what they are worth...looks like a decent deal to me

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&item=280316008563


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

da'HOOV said:


> I guess this is what they are worth...looks like a decent deal to me
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&item=280316008563


Good price for those tires.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Ouch.. that's cheap.

-Schmitty-


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## surly357 (Jan 19, 2006)

*tires, tires.....*

ground controls don't belong on that bike anyway! i want the original stumpjumper tires


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

sho220 said:


> I find it funny that there's all this talk about how Specialized would never put into production the GC tires because they're so smart and do all this research into profitability and they know there would never be a market for them, yet they spent all kinds of money on this stupid Stumpy reissue that they're having to blow out on sell out.


It's too bad it looks like the tires won't see the light of day again, but I'm happy with Timbuk II's for now. It's just a lost opportunity to most of us here, but I would be REALLY pissed if I'd bought one of the Stumpy reissue bikes, rode the piss out of it and then couldn't get replacement tires! That alone seems like a reason to offer then to the public, but, then again, I'm not sure how many of those bikes there are...


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

*Nice SJ Sport just sold on Ebay*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=250376249805

All things point to these reissues not being worth much. Maybe in another couple decades.

-Schmitty-


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## HungarianBarbarian (Jul 24, 2008)

If they released the tires separately who would buy the bike?


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

Schmitty said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=250376249805
> 
> All things point to these reissues not being worth much. Maybe in another couple decades.
> 
> -Schmitty-


Even though they're not worth much as a collectible, they're still a nice bike overall. At least Specialized tried to throw the vintage set a bone. That's more than any other mfg did. Trek continues to push plastic bikes at us until we puke.


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

That reissue looks like a chopper compared to the original.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

wv_bob said:


> That reissue looks like a chopper compared to the original.


The only problem is that isn't an original. It's an 83/84 Stumpjumper Sport that sports different geometry than the original. I'd say the repro reproduces the original laid back geometry pretty good.


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

ssmike said:


> The only problem is that isn't an original. It's an 83/84 Stumpjumper Sport that sports different geometry than the original. I'd say the repro reproduces the original laid back geometry pretty good.


I see said the blind man :thumbsup:


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

As bikes go, well, they suck next to a nice new bike, or even a nice old bike. The reason the original Stumpjumper is valuable as a "collectible" is because it was influential, and because no more 1982 bikes are being made and a lot got used up, so the supply is limited. Performance, not so much, at least nowhere near the performance of the Ritchey bike it was copied from.

A knock-off of a 1964 Mustang would handle just as terribly and would have a wimpy engine and death wish brakes. The only kind to own is the original.


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## surly357 (Jan 19, 2006)

Repack Rider said:


> A knock-off of a 1964 Mustang would handle just as terribly and would have a wimpy engine and death wish brakes. The only kind to own is the original.


sure, but everybody would be clamoring for the repro 1968 tires it would be spec'd with


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> As bikes go, well, they suck next to a nice new bike, or even a nice old bike. The reason the original Stumpjumper is valuable as a "collectible" is because it was influential, and because no more 1982 bikes are being made and a lot got used up, so the supply is limited. Performance, not so much, at least nowhere near the performance of the Ritchey bike it was copied from.
> 
> A knock-off of a 1964 Mustang would handle just as terribly and would have a wimpy engine and death wish brakes. The only kind to own is the original.


So true. The originals are where it's at. Anyone can make a copy of something. And then it's still just a copy.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> So true. The originals are where it's at. Anyone can make a copy of something. And then it's still just a copy.


True, but I still say it's cool they gave a nod to the past, probably knowing this would never be a particularly profitable venture. It's no coincidence the Mustang comes up here - Ford is forever issuing nostalgia versions of it, too. Some are fairly successful and some seem like little more than attempts to capitalize off past glory. All generate debate similar to this. I suspect those are also profitable vs. a base Mustang, but there's only so much you can do to reissue an old car, what with crash tests, emissions requirements, etc.


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

You can buy a whole new Mustang body - 68 fastback IIRC. Same for 69 Camaros, and I heard 70 Barracudas were planned too.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

wv_bob said:


> You can buy a whole new Mustang body - 68 fastback IIRC. Same for 69 Camaros, and I heard 70 Barracudas were planned too.


True, but you certainly can't get a complete, reissued, 2009 model year, 'vintage' car from the original manufacturer. Anything 'kit' gets around the rules - quite well, in many cases.


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## Captain Chaos (Jan 29, 2006)

ssmike said:


> The only problem is that isn't an original. It's an 83/84 Stumpjumper Sport that sports different geometry than the original. I'd say the repro reproduces the original laid back geometry pretty good.


Sorry to dredge up an old topic, but I wanted some thoughts. If one were to find a TA Cyclotourist crankset, (or similar modern, say silver Middleburn RS7s), and find a Suntour NRX deraileur and shifter, (or a modern equivalent, say an XT mech and Paul's thumbie shifters), would that go some way to redeeming this bike?

Early 80's stumpjumpers are rather rare in the UK you see...


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Some careful part swaping could definately go a long way to add cool factor to the bike.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

Captain Chaos said:


> Sorry to dredge up an old topic, but I wanted some thoughts. If one were to find a TA Cyclotourist crankset, (or similar modern, say silver Middleburn RS7s), and find a Suntour NRX deraileur and shifter, (or a modern equivalent, say an XT mech and Paul's thumbie shifters), would that go some way to redeeming this bike?
> 
> Early 80's stumpjumpers are rather rare in the UK you see...


Oddly enough, Electra bikes is making new TA Cyclotourists for their Ticinio line. Look really nice but I haven't seen them sold on their own yet.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Captain Chaos said:


> Sorry to dredge up an old topic, but I wanted some thoughts. If one were to find a TA Cyclotourist crankset, (or similar modern, say silver Middleburn RS7s), and find a Suntour NRX deraileur and shifter, (or a modern equivalent, say an XT mech and Paul's thumbie shifters), would that go some way to redeeming this bike?
> 
> Early 80's stumpjumpers are rather rare in the UK you see...


Still gotta be cheaper and easier to import a clean original Stumpy to the UK, than go the route you're looking to go.

But I guess it depends on what you're ultimate goal is...


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## Captain Chaos (Jan 29, 2006)

Interesting! Sorted my order, so I should have it in a week or so.


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