# FLX bikes



## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

This is a rant thread. By a semi-openminded non-ebike rider. I won't pretend otherwise.

I'm not a fan of ebikes on singletrack, but they're here, and apparently staying, so I've made my peace with the 250w pedal-assist. I really like the idea for commuting and such on the street. But offroad, I think of them like I do horses- I see great potential for user conflict due to people who can't "act right", but if we all play nice, it probably won't be the end of the world (by that I mean end of trail access for anything with wheels)

Just when I've come to terms with legally allowed restrictions of 250w of nominal power assist, there's this:
https://flx.bike

They're not even pretending. 
FLX Blade
1000w nominal. 
1350w peak output.
30mph throttle-powered top speed.
It's not a mod. It's not a 'hack'. It's a product.

It looks *EXACTLY* the same as any other mountain bike to 99% of all non-riders, and in a flash when passing each other on the trail, is probably indistinguishable from any other hardtail MTB to the vast majority of other riders.

This. This is precisely why eMTB antagonists are so unwilling to "give an inch" and support 250w ebikes. 
Give an inch. Take a mile. 
The ebike industry has thus far proven itself totally incapable of policing itself, and now this abomination has set the precedent that 1kW bikes are ok. There is ZERO language on the entire site educating a potential buyer that there are a lot of places using this vehicle is a bad idea, dangerous, and likely ILLEGAL. The closest it gets is a little "(where legal)" disclaimer next to the top speed, intimating "don't break the speed limit", and not a whisper about "don't ride it where it's not legal".

The ebike industry is crippling itself by letting travesties like this happen in the infancy of ebikes.

This is precisely what I, and so many others have been warning about from day 1. You called it a fallacious "slippery slope". I think the slide has begun.

Flame on.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Dude, how fast can they ride that on singletrack, and how many are we gonna see on the trails? Fish out of water scenario.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Gutch said:


> Dude, how fast can they ride that on singletrack, and how many are we gonna see on the trails? Fish out of water scenario.


There are many places where I could ride that at 20-25mph uphill for extended stretches. 2-3x my normal pace. Maybe more.

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## Zinfan (Jun 6, 2006)

ARandomBiker said:


> This is a rant thread. By a semi-openminded non-ebike rider. I won't pretend otherwise.
> 
> I'm not a fan of ebikes on singletrack, but they're here, and apparently staying, so I've made my peace with the 250w pedal-assist. I really like the idea for commuting and such on the street. But offroad, I think of them like I do horses- I see great potential for user conflict due to people who can't "act right", but if we all play nice, it probably won't be the end of the world (by that I mean end of trail access for anything with wheels)
> 
> ...


First off let me say that I'm a new owner of an e-mtb, a Focus Jam2 Class 1 pedal assist 250w 20 mph bike and I love it. This FLX does seem to me to be something that could cause issues and I agree that they shouldn't be readily available but they are. The Blade costs $2k less than my Focus and goes twice as fast, there for sure will be customers who will gravitate to that.

I watched the video from EBR and was disappointed on how they presented the bike, they did mention it was not legal for street use in the beginning but after that it was just talk about how much fun it was to ride without getting into the legalities of actually riding it anywhere but in OHV areas. If you go to the webpage for the Blade there is a tab for Classification and they do state it isn't legal and they do then list the California regulations for e-bikes, more of a cover your butt section but it is there.

No answers from me on what to do about this but I see your viewpoint and wanted to chime in.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

ARandomBiker said:


> There is ZERO language on the entire site educating a potential buyer that there are a lot of places using this vehicle is a bad idea, dangerous, and likely ILLEGAL.


It's under the "Classification" tab:



> Off-Road / Private Land Use.
> The Blade has a 1000W motor. The legal limit in the US is 750W.
> 
> This bike is too fast and powerful to make it 'street legal'. Owners of these bikes can use them on private land or acceptable, multi-vehicle, off road tracks. Please consult your local regulations before riding.


What I don't get is why don't they offer a package that makes it a street-legal motorcycle?

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## Ryder (Aug 20, 2004)

Genuine question from a non US resident. Why have the US not adopted the same laws as virtually every other country and classified an e-bike as being pedal assist to a max speed of 15 or 20 mph? This would need a license helmet and registration to ride in the UK I would think


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Ryder said:


> Genuine question from a non US resident. Why have the US not adopted the same laws as virtually every other country and classified an e-bike as being pedal assist to a max speed of 15 or 20 mph? This would need a license helmet and registration to ride in the UK I would think


Our pre-exsiting federal and many state laws allowed 1 horsepower (750w) and 20mph to be sold as electrically powered bicycles. People4bikes, which is an industry lobbying group, sort of mashed together the EU, UK and US laws to come up with their own, which allows pretty much anything 750w and below. When I asked their lawyer in charge of crafting their legislation why they didn't just adopt the EU laws (250w/15mph) he said it was because there were already companies selling 750w ebikes, so he just sort of shrugged.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

andytiedye said:


> It's under the "Classification" tab:
> 
> 
> > Off-Road / Private Land Use.
> ...


There's deliberate duplicity in that statement with the juxtaposition of "750W legal limit" followed by "street legal". it makes no mention of the legality of off-road use. Even those of us that are intently discussing the ins and outs here on MTBR probably cant pinpoint what that statement means legally. The average schmo isn't even going to register the subtlety and nuance in that legal blurb above.

They're gonna read that and think "Hmm, OK, no street, (which is stupid) but this right here says I can use it on offload." 
I don't feel like the gloss-over "off-road tracks" is specific enough language. 
I mean, anything dirt is technically off road- like parks and preserves that currently have a blanket-ban on anything powered. There's a lot of places that prohibit ebikes, but don't post as conspicuously, if at all. They frequently say "no motorized" and a graphic of a motorcycle.

I'll acknowledge that "multi-vehicle" is a bit more discerning, but again, is intentionally vague.

I'm not a total ebike hater. I've already said I made my peace with low-level PAS. Stuff like this is cannibalizing the ebike industry from within and is going to end up biting everyone (including traditional MTB) in the ass.

Whats going to happen when 'mods' start hitting the internet to boost the power of this bike? 2kW? 3kW peak output?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Gutch said:


> Dude, how fast can they ride that on singletrack, and how many are we gonna see on the trails? Fish out of water scenario.


I don't know how fast someone could ride this on singletrack, but its a hell of a lot faster than *anyone* can pedal without a motor, and I'm pretty certain it'll be appreciably faster than anyone on a Levo, Haibike, Jam, or any other 250W nominal pedal-assist.

I don't see it as a "fish out of water", I see it as "Let the genie out of the bottle". 
This exists. Others will follow, and legislation will be so tangled and messy that it'll end up with "Fine then, *nothing* with wheels is allowed here." And suddenly we're all shoved to DH parks and sharing moto trails with the KTM450s.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

HT angle looks road bike steep, imagine a fully compressed fork on that thing? Good to know it has "powerful" rear brakes, I was waiting for the one handed GoPro crash.


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