# Alfine Rotating Cassette Joint Issue



## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

My cassette joint is rotating counter clockwise with pedaling. It starts out tucked in nicely beside (behind) the chainstay. If I pedal hard it works its way upwards as shown in the picture. I've tried to tighten things down but I'm having no luck. Any ideas?


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## evrac (Sep 28, 2005)

Wrong or no non-turn-washer?


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

evrac said:


> Wrong or no non-turn-washer?


Good thinking but I've got the green/blue washers for 60-90 degree verticals drops.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/shimano-nexus.html


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

I had that problem too. Check to make sure both non-turn washers are contacting the dropouts correctly in the manner necessary to prevent this rotation. I had to modify mine to fit my dropouts. I also switched back to the stock cap nuts versus regular track nuts. The cap nuts seem to hold better.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

Schmucker said:


> I had that problem too. Check to make sure both non-turn washers are contacting the dropouts correctly in the manner necessary to prevent this rotation. I had to modify mine to fit my dropouts. I also switched back to the stock cap nuts versus regular track nuts. The cap nuts seem to hold better.


Thanks, Schmucker. I think you nailed it. I got home and took a look at things. I don't think the cassette joint can rotate when it's locked in with the fixing ring. I'm pretty sure the nuts had loosened just enough for the tabs on the non-turn washers to slip out of the dropouts.

I guess the underlying problem is I've got some generic nuts.  I need to get some nice chromed cap nuts.  The Alfine was built up at the bike shop. I'm not sure why they didn't give me the stock cap nuts. I'll order some soon. If I still have problems, I might try some kind of tugnut modification.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=521068


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

Damn! The problem is not solved. I got things put back together, everything tightened, went for a short, moderate ride, and I found the cassette joint twisted again. I flipped the bike over and found the washer tabs were still in the dropouts but it appears that the pedalling force had caused the tabs to twist, bite into the aluminum dropouts and deform it a little. You can see in the pictures where this caused the paint to chip and expose the aluminum. 

It seems to me that the tabs on the non-turn washers are too small. Maybe just big enough to catch on some thin, stamped dropouts. On my frame the tabs barely cover 1/3 of the width of the dropout. 

I looked at things and I don't see how I can get a tugnut to work. Any other ideas? :madman:


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## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

How tight are you cranking the nuts? If you don't have a torque wrench for the 25 ft/lbs, but remember 'feel', tighten them as much as a set of old square taper cranks. Your pics. don't look any different than my setup, which is several 1000km old now.

My guess is too low torque on the bolts. I've got quite a bit of wiggle room to rotate the cassette joint too since my washers also don't fit the drops tightly. They are also barely a third into the meat of the dropouts like yours are. When I reinstall the wheel I pick my angle for the cassette joint and tighten things down. Things have never moved on me.

Drew


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

I don't have a torque wrench. I tightened them down a fair bit to begin with. When I realized I had a problem, I tightened them more. I'm guessing it's tightened down sufficiently.

I think the problem is I'm 230 lbs., stocky, I've got strong legs, I climb short, steep, rocky hills, and the gearing is a tad high in 1st gear so I'm cranking real hard a lot. If the aluminum was a little harder or the tab on the non-turn washer was a little bigger, it might not be a problem. 

I'm thinking of using a zip tie or two wrapped around the end of the cassette joint and the chainstay.


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## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

It's worth a shot. The cassette joint is all metal where it fits onto the hub. Hopefully it isn't under too much torque from what ever slipping seems to be happening.

I just had an idea; why don't you deepen the tabs on the washers with a file so you have more metal contact at the dropouts? A file would do that in about 5 minutes.

Drew


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

dru said:


> It's worth a shot. The cassette joint is all metal where it fits onto the hub. Hopefully it isn't under too much torque from what ever slipping seems to be happening.
> 
> I just had an idea; why don't you deepen the tabs on the washers with a file so you have more metal contact at the dropouts? A file would do that in about 5 minutes.
> 
> Drew


Thanks for the idea, Drew. I may try shaving off a few millimeters. The problem is the washer itself gets a lot of torque from the axle. I might try to enlarge the tab by building up some JB Weld and then filing it into shape.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

The washers get torqued back and forth depending on if the hub is over or under driving. If you put torque into the hub in 1-4, the washers slip one way, in 6-8, the other way. On Al dropouts it can look bad but I haven't had too much trouble. I'm riding a misfit diSSent with similar dropouts. I'd tighten it down real good and ride it. Cassette joint is sticking up kinda Viagra like, I'd pick a set of washers that allows the joint angle to be closer to the angle of the chainstay. I wouldn't zip-tie it, it needs to float around with the axle for proper gear adjustment.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

pursuiter said:


> The washers get torqued back and forth depending on if the hub is over or under driving. If you put torque into the hub in 1-4, the washers slip one way, in 6-8, the other way. On Al dropouts it can look bad but I haven't had too much trouble. I'm riding a misfit diSSent with similar dropouts. I'd tighten it down real good and ride it. Cassette joint is sticking up kinda Viagra like, I'd pick a set of washers that allows the joint angle to be closer to the angle of the chainstay. I wouldn't zip-tie it, it needs to float around with the axle for proper gear adjustment.


Hmm ... I didn't know about the back and forth torque. I'll keep that in mind. The two bottom right pictures here lead me to believe that the cassette joint doesn't necessarily need to be parallel to the chainstay. Based on what you are saying, I'm thinking if I crank it out in a low gear the cassette joint may become erect and if I crank it out in a high gear it may become flacid.

I'll do a little bit more experimenting this weekend and report back.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

*Update*

I didn't end up making any modifications. I just tightened it up extra tight and road it 4x this past week without any trouble. The cassette joint does go up and down a little but not like it did before. I don't have a torque wrench so I'm not sure how tight it is. I plan on getting one sometime.


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