# Backyard bike park



## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

*Backyard Bike Park*

So i my parents just got 5.35 acres of land in wisconsin. There letting my build on it. so i have a couple ideas, but need some more. A set of dirt jumps for my FR rig. A short fast DH line with berms drops and gaps. Last a northshore bridge section. If anyone has any pics of there backyard parks or smaller sections that would be awesome. Any insperational pics or really any ideas. Thanks. I will post pics of the progress as soon as i can.


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## albertomannil (Nov 25, 2007)

a set of DJ's for your DJ rig, a set doubles for your FR rig... if that's what you meant... Build Skinnies even if you dont like them, they are awesome for building balance skills!


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

here's a couple ideas to get you started. Now get diggin!


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## penfuin (Oct 1, 2007)

where in wisconsin are you moving


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

I'm entirely too lazy to repost all my pics, so here's the link to the thread that contains all of the most recent pics. 
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=354900&highlight=Insane+Stunts
The plot of land all this is on is only two acres. All that stuff makes up less than half of it. So you probably have enough land to build what you need to build. 
What's the elevation change on that land?
We've made some changes and have a big project under construction since then. I'll post pics when we get a little further along.


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## Kiran M (Jun 24, 2008)

geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez! thats amazing!!!!!
do you use nails or screws to put that together?


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

Kiran M said:


> geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez! thats amazing!!!!!
> do you use nails or screws to put that together?


Most everything there was built using screws. I don't like dealing with nails. Screws may be more expensive, but the structures will not only last longer, but will be more durable if you use screws. 
The only structure I can think of that was built with nails, is the first big berm/wallride at the bottom of the 6er drop; one of our friends brought his nail gun with him one day and built it for us. Funny thing is, one of the sections towards the bottom, on the bottom plane of if came loose last week. We fixed it using screws this time. Haha.
If you want it to last more than one season, I highly advise using screws.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Hey i have a question, what is the best way to get rid of bugs, mostquitos and deer flies.

i was told to remove underbrush and lower branches to bring in air so they cant land as easy, i know to dump out all water as well. anything else, i really dont want to spray$$$ and the farm next door is organic....


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

I like those pics, thats sort of what im planing on building right now. I really like that drop and double in the first pic.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

I lived in washington now im in oshkosh wisconsin. there is a +6% grade on the one side then a +4% grade on the other. so its enough but not a lot, with the house there moving a lot of dirt so im going to have a couple roll ins. oh and we just found out we have to blast for rock. so im goingto have a lot of extra rock. Armored trails and rock features are now an option.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

haha get good at swatting, the only way id say is to fog them, this year we have a bumper crop of the "state bird" in wisconsin, they uw did a study, they set traps and 24 hours later go back and get them, normally they catch 300-400 in 24 hours, and this year they caught 20,000, yes twenty thousand (not a typo), id say clear all the water and clear the brush then fog or just deet up before going on a sesh


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## edenger (Aug 2, 2006)

rmb_mike -- TOTALLY SICK!

Another question: I'm looking to do a bit of the same and was wondering if there's a magic formula for turns/berms. Both for dirt berms and wood/wall-rides? 

I guess I'll figure out by trial and error but before I start digging a crappy feature I was hoping to get some general guidance. Thanks!


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

edenger said:


> rmb_mike -- TOTALLY SICK!
> 
> Another question: I'm looking to do a bit of the same and was wondering if there's a magic formula for turns/berms. Both for dirt berms and wood/wall-rides?
> 
> I guess I'll figure out by trial and error but before I start digging a crappy feature I was hoping to get some general guidance. Thanks!


Thanks.

You are correct, some of it is trial and error. Some of it is also terrain. Some of it is available resources. There are several things to take into factor. 
For example, at Kenny's place, we have a thin layer (1'-2') then it's rock. Rock is above the ground in a few places even. So we don't have a whole lot of dirt to work with, and having a truck load delivered to the house is too expensive. 
We originally had two small dirt berms (you can see the bottom (second) one), but we realized we were coming around that corner with more speed than those berms would handle. So one of our friends came over and built the first one. He built it bigger than we thought he was going to. We first built a single plane wall on the top of the second berm, like you see in the pics. It was too steep for the transitions of the berm. So we wound up building a pretty nasty dual plane berm/wallride like the first one. Those are in the two videos on the third page. They're plenty fun.
Another thing you can do; if you draw and clear your intended trail out, and take a test ride through it a couple of times, you'll have a better feel for how the berms should be constructed.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Okay so today i plan on going out and doing a little bit of clearing and some building with a friend. His dad owns a large construction company and we have access to a lot of there tools. I will try to take pics if I remember to. im also going to draw up a couple plans and i will post them on here as well for feed back. The neighbor has a section of land tha is about a 15 foot drop to down hill, i want to make a drop the like The Manager, to bad I dont own it....


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

here is some pics from today, i built the start of the first of a few table tops. It was about 80-90 out with high humidity and i forgot bug spray. the ramp you see will be for a 10-15 foot table. I also have pics of the wooded area....no so great but what ever. Oh and i took the pics quick because my cell was fogging up....so dont mind the finger in the bottom corner, but i know someone will mention it.....grrrrr...:madman:


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## D-line (Dec 5, 2005)

Oh yeah buddy... Long live the Ranch!


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

kitsapfreerider said:


> Hey i have a question, what is the best way to get rid of bugs, mostquitos and deer flies.
> 
> i was told to remove underbrush and lower branches to bring in air so they cant land as easy, i know to dump out all water as well. anything else, i really dont want to spray$$$ and the farm next door is organic....


plant Citronella bushes all over the place.....it smells nice but bugs hate it

also rosemary, garlic, marigolds


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*uh oh.*

Hey kitsap,
I hope I am wrong, but from the photo it appears you "might" be building with-in the "right of way" of the road.

Determine if that road is a State highway, county or town road. Then find out how far from the center of that road you can build your playground. Your folks may be able to help you find out where to find that information.

I hope I am misguided, but I'd hate to see you put a lot of effort into creating a nice trail, only to have to move over 20 feet.

good luck,
Charlie


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

its about 25 feet off the the edge of the road im also going cut in to the property a little more, its on a really old wheeling trail. That the pictures i want to build a drop like that in the woods, about 7 feet or so.

i had a 15 footer at my old house that was 6 feet from the road and my neighbor was a contractor for the county. Its also a county highway. I cant imagine it being a problem but im going to research it some more. I was told right of way was only for buildings and structures. I'll as my parents next time I see them.


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*I saw the ATV tracks in the photo.*

Usually the right-of-way is measured from the center of the road. differ roads have differ distances (state, county, town). Even if you own the land between the highway and the power lines there may be restrictions on what can be done with it. Usually, mowing it for hay is about all that can be done with the ground.

Keeping it simple, looking up and down that road, is there anything else between that road and the power lines (other than approaches)? Any big trees, bushes, buildings, fences? How about the opposite side of the road. Is there approx the same width of nothing between the center of the road road and a definable edge of something? If not, I would guess it is the right-of-way.

Lots of roads have ATV tracks alongside them. The ATVs shouldn't be driving alongside most of the roads, but there is some tolerances afforded them. I think there would not be tolerance for building jumps though.

I really do hope I am wrong, but don't rely on seeing tracks and assume your building on an old allowable trail.

It is nice to see someone with your building skills, and desire to build, move to Wisconsin.

Good luck, 
Charlie


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Thanks for the help, I belive my neighbors have a fence next to the road, across the road i think there barn is about that close to the road. i will find out before i build anymore. 

Thanks again, Andy


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

i dont know about oshkosh but normally stuff like that is pretty lax in wisconsin, people might stop and watch but i highly doubt you would have a problem especially since its your land


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

That what I was thinking, put it only takes one person to fuk things up.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

yea thats true, you wouldnt want to go through all that work and have to mash everything over and start again 2 feet over or something, heres a link that might be helpfull

http://www.dot.state.wi.us/business/rules/property-permits.htm

the link mainly talks about permits and stuff but it does outline a few things, im pretty sure you would be under the STH permit (about halfway down the page)

and im pretty sure the fr trail would be a 5. Trail or Trail Crossing: Any pedestrian, bicycle, snowmobile, equestrian, etc., trail that runs longitudinally along and/or crosses a state trunk highway.

anyway thought i might be of some help, id ask the folks to help find out before you go to all the work, it might be as simple as throwing in some silt fence to avoid excess runoff during construction or something easy like that


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

This is from the guy who does the permits. So im going to continue building. I plan on going out theretomorrow to finish that ab ltop and a bigger booter down a little bit. then at the very bottome im putting in a bigger table which i will mark of as well.


Andy:
As long as you are building on your own property, you shouldn't have any problems. But, you should check with the township and county you live in to see if there are any ordinances or setback requirements that you would have to abide by. For example, I know that many counties have setback ordinances for things like building foundations, septic systems, decks, etc. in which you have to be a specific distance away from your lot line or the highway right-of-way line. There may be something for trails as well. >>>BF
Bob Fasick


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*that's awesome.*

Glad to here your project can continue as you envisioned it!


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

*days work*

this is the 10 footer we just starte yesterday, i was suposed to ran last night but it didn't so i have to go water it latter. I also am going to put in a couple ladder dropsoff to the left


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## dankist4x4 (Jun 26, 2006)

Hows V.I. doing. Are you going to make it up to the freeride day at Nordic?


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

VI is doing okay, we need alot more builders and resouces. 

I dont like how sketchy the stuff at nordic is. the drop to flat and gap to flat. It also needs flow.


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## MTB_prodigy (Jun 16, 2007)

ur so lucky to have all that room to build. That dirt looks really good too.


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## MTB_prodigy (Jun 16, 2007)

My spot recently got torn down by bmx'ers who also mountain bike by the way. I had a new 12 foot ladder drop and a new 15 foot ladder like step down.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

oh that sucks, im glad i have the land i do. the dirt is good about a foot down, but that first foot is packed gravel


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## NicKKo (Sep 16, 2006)

MTB_prodigy said:


> My spot recently got torn down by bmx'ers who also mountain bike by the way. I had a new 12 foot ladder drop and a new 15 foot ladder like step down.


I feel your pain mate. In the holidays me and my mate spent 3 days building up our MTB jumps and drop off's as well as a ladder bridge. We come back one day and the jumps hav been kicked down, the dirt lips on the drop offs kicked out and my ladder bridge torn down and smashed up:madman: :madmax: . THEN they used the wreckage of the ladder bridge to write BMX in the kicked down first jump. F#*K:madmax: i hate bxmer's.why cant the skinny pant wearing F#*kers piss off bac to the skate park where they belong. Our jumps will be avenged:thumbsup: in a couple of weeks wen the only bmxer were afraid of is gone out of town for a couple of months, were rolling in on our superiour bikes and destroying there jumps


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## ufisher (Jan 26, 2005)

kitsa, you may want to check on the right of way a little more. it looks like the brush has all been trimmed up to the telephone poles. i believe you said it was a county highway, if that is the case the right of way may be enough for 4 lanes of traffic (which would explain the distance of the poles to the road).

here is a link to the winnebago county property info site where you can see the lot lines and everything (including right of way and zoning info) click here

i only mention this because my brother in-law has been going round and round with winnebago county over a navigable waterway issue which is barring him from doing anything on the back of his lot.

just curious, did you ever make it out to nordic for the race.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

im out of the city limits. im going to talk to the contractor incharge of zoning when my parents start there house.

No i didn't get to go to the race. I had work and Marzocchi just sent the parts i need to work on my fork.


update: so apartently someone didn't get the message that the land is private property....and took there ATV all over my doubles.....so me and my neighbor spent yesterday rebuilding them. and im going to pick up private property signs and gate the entrance to the trailas well as build a roll in. I also found two good long cherry trees in the area that will be cleared. and cut them down and will be turned into a drop soon.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

So in the last hour i have made the desision to for the time being stop building new doubles by the road. IM going to shape the lips and clean the two doubles up but until we have the contractors look at the land im going to just build in the woods.

That being said does anyone know the best way to make a roller coaster. As well as building strong ladder structers. I know to make cross beams and all that but what is the best way to connect to larger logs. Do i just do it log cabin styles or is there more to it. I used to build this stuff but not on this scale. Any suggestions???


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## D-line (Dec 5, 2005)

Use timber locks, They come in all sorts of lengths and drive with a socket:thumbsup: 
You can find them at Home Depot or Lowes...


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Is it like a joyce hanger?? or just a lag bolt with a washer??


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

kitsapfreerider said:


> So in the last hour i have made the desision to for the time being stop building new doubles by the road. IM going to shape the lips and clean the two doubles up but until we have the contractors look at the land im going to just build in the woods.
> 
> That being said does anyone know the best way to make a roller coaster. As well as building strong ladder structers. I know to make cross beams and all that but what is the best way to connect to larger logs. Do i just do it log cabin styles or is there more to it. I used to build this stuff but not on this scale. Any suggestions???


1. What is your definition of 'cross beams'?
2. What do you mean by connecting larger logs?
3. What kind of wood/lumber are you going to be working with (i.e. round logs, rectangular boards, etc)?



> Use timber locks, They come in all sorts of lengths and drive with a socket
> You can find them at Home Depot or Lowes...


Those are going to be quite a bit more expensive than screws, and probably overkill as well. 
The only thing at my park that has carriage bolts in it, is that main platform(and even there, it's only to fasten the side 2x8s to the upright posts). Everything else has 3" screws for the framing and 2-2.5" screws for the decking.


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## D-line (Dec 5, 2005)

It is like a lag bolt, but a bit better. They are not as thick, and have a non corrosive finish on them..


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

yeah i think i know what they are. 

1. cross beams, the supports that connect two peices of wood add support. 
2.Connecting large logs- 5inch wide to 16inch wide for log rides and supports
3. Im going to be using mainly hardwoods like cherry, oak.... whats in the area. and treated wood for rungs.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

kitsapfreerider said:


> yeah i think i know what they are.
> 
> 1. cross beams, the supports that connect two peices of wood add support.
> 2.Connecting large logs- 5inch wide to 16inch wide for log rides and supports
> 3. Im going to be using mainly hardwoods like cherry, oak.... whats in the area. and treated wood for rungs.


Still not clear on your def of cross beams. Do you mean the beams that the decking pieces attach to (i.e. parallel to direction of travel: I call them stringers)?, OR the beams that the stringers sit on top of: the ones that attach to the upright supports that are perpendicular to the direction of bike travel?
Give me a few minutes to concoct a simple drawing of what I'm talking about and how to fasten them to one another. Be back in a few.
You can also go to the Insane Stunts thread and take a look at some of my stuff and see how we built ours. While we did try to stay as techical as we could, we do also get a bit fluid with our building as well.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

kitsapfreerider said:


> this is the 10 footer we just starte yesterday, i was suposed to ran last night but it didn't so i have to go water it latter. I also am going to put in a couple ladder dropsoff to the left


man that is so visable next to the road


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Its private property, i dont think it will be a prob.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

Ok, here is what I could type up. Sorry for the "Corky" font, but my text tool wouldn't work.  









This was drawn without the decking attached. I figured you know how to fasten decking.
The blue lines indicate where the screws should go.
First, take a look at the front view (which by the way is split up, the top part is the left, and the bottom part (scaled down from the top part) is on the right). Notice the rectangles below the horizontal cross member support. Those are cleats. Firmly press them up against the bottom of the cross member (i.e. 'preloading' it) as hard as you can, then screw them to the upright supports.
The upright supports can be as close together or as far apart as you need them to be. Be sure to fasten some type of lateral brace to the ladder if it is going to be fairly skinny in proportion to its height.
The cross members can also hold logs. Notice the dotted blue curved notch out of the front view cross member. You can set a log end right down in that notch.
Well I hope I didn't ramble on too much and that this helps you at least some.

****. I forgot something. On the top view, one option for lining up the stringers is on the right, where they meet end to end. You can stagger them like the ones on the left, or you can set one pair inside the other.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

but what if the logs are to thick to put normal nails and screws through. and i think it will have to be nail because i have no power source for the next 5 months. and battery packs only last so long. i was thinking of cutting flat sides on the sides of the ends of logs that will almost lock together like the second diagram. The first diagram is of the current section my camera cant get the lighting right so yeah. Also the decking is not in place yet.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

another question, what is the best way to make a roller coaster with smooth transitions.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

maybe use 2x8/2x6s for your stringers and make miter cuts very gradual


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

what do you mean, like an arch?


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

kitsapfreerider said:


> but what if the logs are to thick to put normal nails and screws through. and i think it will have to be nail because i have no power source for the next 5 months. and battery packs only last so long. i was thinking of cutting flat sides on the sides of the ends of logs that will almost lock together like the second diagram. The first diagram is of the current section my camera cant get the lighting right so yeah. Also the decking is not in place yet.


You don't need to cut notches out of the sides to attach boards/lumber to the logs. Just screw the board onto the side of the log like my diagram shows, then fasten the cleats to the logs below them.



> but what if the logs are to thick to put normal nails and screws through


The screws don't need to be longer than the logs are thick, just be longer than the thickness of the boards you are fastening to the logs. If you're fastening a thick log to a thick log, you are most likely going to use some sort of board lumber to hook them together. The screws will not be too short for boards. 
As for using nails, you do what you need to do to make your stuff work. But...
Even though they are more expensive, screws provide a stronger bond/link, and are easier(less labor intensive) to remove should you want to take it down or modify the stunt.
Concerning your power source, if you can invest in the Dewalt 18v XRP cordless drill, you will be set. Get one with two battery packs. One pack will drive over 200 3" long square bit drive wood screws. Ridgid is also a good brand. 
Plus, driving all those nails is going to wear you out faster than using a drill to fasten screws. A recip (Sawzall) saw would also come in very handy as well.
As for a power source, if you're that close to the road, buy one of those AC power converters for your car lighter plug, and use that to plug the battery charger into. You will have a power source then.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

no, i mean this is going to be true northshore style, no outside wood. so im making it out of hardwood. the decking is the only thing on this trail that i might have made out of 2x4's. the trail over will be made with store bought wood. i know how to use that.

I have a good cordless, i doesn't seem to have enough power.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

Ok. Now it's a bit clearer. 
If you're going to use strictly logs, be prepared for a shitload of prepwork: delimbing logs when you cut the tree down and notching the logs to get them to fit one another. 
Two of my runs are made almost entirely out of cedar logs. While it does look totally awesome and natural, it has by far required the most work. 
So yes, in order for you to fasten two logs w/ no lumber will probably require some notching to get even nails to go through. However I still recommend using 4" wood screws.
I also noticed you said you are going to make it out of hardwood. Which kind (oak, mahogany, beech, etc.)? While hardwood is very strong, and somewhat rot resistant, be prepared for more headaches. Nails are harder to hammer through (I've bent nails while trying to drive some in through an oak board), and since it doesn't have much give, the wood has a tendency to split if you nail it close to the edge. It will also be harder to saw through(if you're hand cutting it, have fun, if you're using a chainsaw, be prepared to file/sharpen the teeth on a regular basis). 
And my personal favorite, (for example), a 6" diameter, 8' long oak log is going to weigh considerably more than an identical sized cedar log. 
Why did you choose hardwood to begin with?
I'm not saying don't use hardwood, I'm just letting you know of the issues you might encounter.
My recommendation to you is that, if you have a total boner for using natural wood, I'd go with cedar if you can find enough trees. It's easy to work with; even though it's fairly soft, it's also very strong; it's VERY rot resistant; and it smells good too!


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

we have a lot of hickory, and i like it because its soesn't have a lot of bends.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

kitsapfreerider said:


> we have a lot of hickory


Hickory is a nice wood. It has some good advantages, like being strong and durable, but here are some disadvantages to consider:
http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/HardwoodNA/htmlDocs/carya.html


> Working Properties:
> Hickory is considered difficult to machine and glue. It holds nails well, *but it tends to split*. It is susceptible to bird peck.


As I mentioned.



> Durability:
> Rated as slightly or nonresistant to heartwood decay.


This means you may have to waterseal it. Used engine oil and a 4" paintbrush works pretty dang well.
If you waterseal it properly (especially the ends, where water is the most easily absorbed), it should last you at least several years.

If you have any big oak or red maple trees, I'd suggest those as well. Those woods are quite rot resistant.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

what if i use it for table tops, to reduce erosion like on the sides. Drive two or three in the ground then on the inside put them on there sides with plastic sheeting as a barrier between the dirt and logs. Would that work?


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

okay these are some pics of the second trail, this is located on the north side of the property. We are building on the south side. Okay here are the details the trail will start on the topside of the hill, then down up a bridge to the top of the weird looking tree about 6-7 feet up then back down into a berm on the deer trail. after that it will cut back into the woods were there will be a bridge out to that stump which will be a 4-5 foot drop, then down after that to that large maple in the last pic, were there will be a wallride up against it. I think i could get some cool pics from about 20-30 feet up that maple. another option will be depending on speed. if i can get a lot speed im going to put a large table top at the bottom. 

we also have a lot of rocks in the one downhill section that i will dig up and make a couple good rock gardens. 


Okay so im going to start buying lumber for the non northshore trails, as well as screws. im just going to have to charge both batteries for my drill a lot more. How many srews and 2x4x7's should i get to start?? i was thinking 15 for decking and 8 for other uses. I also was thinking of getting about 200 3inch screws


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

well you buy screws by the pound, id go with some sqare drive decking screws, they are alot easier to put in than phillips head, something about square head having more contact with the bit or something, probley 2 and a half inch to 3 inch would work just fine, and start with 5 pounds of em and you might wanna buy a couple drill bits that are smaller than the thread on the screws, if you pilot the holes first your battery in a cordless will last alot longer and you wont split the wood


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## pro (Oct 7, 2007)

spazzy said:


> well you buy screws by the pound, id go with some sqare drive decking screws, they are alot easier to put in than phillips head, something about square head having more contact with the bit or something, probley 2 and a half inch to 3 inch would work just fine, and start with 5 pounds of em and you might wanna buy a couple drill bits that are smaller than the thread on the screws, if you pilot the holes first your battery in a cordless will last alot longer and you wont split the wood


Dude, no way with the square head. They strip before you can countersink em!


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

yeah i want something that wont strip, 

hey Matt when are you coming out to oshkosh for school?


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

pro said:


> Dude, no way with the square head. They strip before you can countersink em!


Ok, I can think of four reasons why you have a problem with the heads stripping before you countersink them.
1. Your drill's speed setting is way too high. Ensure you have it on the lowest speed/highest torque setting.
2. Your square bit is too small for the screw bit. There are different sizes of the square bit. The normal size is usually a #2 (which is what size the screws we use are).
3. You do not have the drill/drill bit at the same exact angle as the screw. If you are screwing in a screw exactly 90 degrees, straight down into the wood, and you are holding the drill at an angle in relation to the direction of the screw, it tends to pop out and 'strip'.
Ensure your drill bit and screw are 'forming a straight line'.
4. You aren't applying enough pressure to the screw. Sometimes you need to 'push down' to get a belligerent screw to screw in, or naturally the bit will lose 'grip' or pop out of the screw entirely.

Trust me, Kenny and I have cinched down at least 30,000 of these screws with square bits and the only time we ever have an issue with the bits/screws stripping is if one or more of the four things I mentioned above happens.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Update: i went out today and got a good pile of elder and assorted hardwoods. one of the next couple days im going to go out and cut some peices for decking and supports.

the only reason i didn't finish cutting is something went wrong with my chainsaw


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

pro said:


> Dude, no way with the square head. They strip before you can countersink em!


You seriously need to rethink your methods, or you have the wrong sized/worn bits, square drive is hands down the best screw head (next to proper bolt/hex key) that I have used, and you can screw single handed.


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## trentet (Oct 20, 2004)

*squares are nice but*

I've been using Torx drive screws with ceramic coating, they are self drilling and tapping plus they have these little cutting features between the threads and under the countersink that cut the wood fibers to prevent splitting and help cut the countersink for you. They are 180 ksi steel too so they don't break that often or strip out. here's one  or here

here's a pic:


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

trentet said:


> I've been using Torx drive screws with ceramic coating, they are self drilling and tapping plus they have these little cutting features between the threads and under the countersink that cut the wood fibers to prevent splitting and help cut the countersink for you. They are 180 ksi steel too so they don't break that often or strip out. here's one  or here
> 
> here's a pic:


Yep. The square bit screws Kenny and I use look exactly like that. The ones we get are galvanized, which I think are the same thing as ceramic coating.
One other head I forgot to mention is the combo bit (square and phillips head). They look like the torx drive except they have 4 fingers coming out from the square center rather than six fingers coming out of a hexagon center, like the Torx has.
One bad thing about the Torx screws is that, much like a square drive screw is more expensive than regular phillips heads, is that Torx/Combo drive screws are going to be more than square bits. 
If you can swing the extra cash for the Torx/combo screws, by all means, use them. 
I find that the regular square drive screws are a happy median with cost and ease of use.
Happy building!


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## trentet (Oct 20, 2004)

Galvanized is not quite the same as ceramic. Galvanized is a sacrificial metal coating that will begin oxidizing (rusting) before the steel of the screw will rust because it's chemically more attractive to the oxygen than the steel is and as long as it's not scratched forms a barrier of zinc oxide that is mostly impenetrable to the free oxygen in the atmosphere. A ceramic coating is kind of like coating the screw in clay but really thin hard and durable. Ceramic won't react with much of anything and as long as it's not scratched off the screw won't corrode even in corrosive chemically pressure treated wood. galvanized screws will corrode in pressure treated lumber which is why people buy stainless or ceramic coated. another advantage to ceramic coating is that it is very hard so it helps the screw cut into the wood better. kind of like TIN (titanium nitride) coating on drill bits and end mills. The boxes of screws I've been buying have each come with a tool steel torx drive bit so I haven't had to buy any. in fact they last so long that I have a grip of them in my tool box. I really liked the square drives until I bought these and now I'm hooked.


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## gil_caz (Jul 12, 2006)

essenmeinstuff said:


> and you can screw single handed.


thats what she said


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

im back up at the osh the 1st

yea torx heads are nice but they are more pricey, ive used the square heads for a few years at work on residential decks and have had really good luck, i get leftovers boxes at a lumber yard, they dont corrode or anything because they are meant for decking and people dont really like the nasty stain from regular nails/screws, they are painted and i get whatever color is a leftover from an order and usually is on sale


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Update: So last night i went out to the property and......for the last time the ATV's destroyed my doubles. James and I started to move the dirt to a new location. So we started the step up step down. We dug the 10 post holes for the ladder to step up on to. we also put the posts in the ground for the walls of the ramp up and added some dirt.


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

kitsapfreerider said:


> Update: So last night i went out to the property and......for the last time the ATV's destroyed my doubles. James and I started to move the dirt to a new location. So we started the step up step down. We dug the 10 post holes for the ladder to step up on to. we also put the posts in the ground for the walls of the ramp up and added some dirt.


So someone went on your land and destroyed your jumps? I'd be spewin :madmax:


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

You should dig a big ass hole right in front of your double, then cover it with twigs and leaves.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

ssshhhhhh, you will ruin my plan fill it with spikes flames and sharks. yep already ahead of you


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## trentet (Oct 20, 2004)

sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads


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## trail bait (Oct 31, 2006)

trentet said:


> sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads


Tuna with freak'n lazer beams on their heads


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

trentet said:


> sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads


We couldn't get sharks. So we got some ill-tempered sea bass instead.


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## rabidweasel999 (Oct 22, 2006)

Any recent progress pics? Looks like a cool project.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

i'll take some pics of what the ATV's did tomorrow and the step up step down as well....its not much any more.... here is a pic of the gap before the ATV's and here is a couple pics of the wood i cut down......wait only the gap will send from my phone....i'll keep working at it and post the other when it sends. the Red arrow is where the dirt from this gap is going to make the SUSD.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

heres another one i think my conection with the internet is just bad on my phone.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

looks good so far, progress! lol

but yea im stoked to get back to oshkosh, but the only bike im bringing is my commuter


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

heres the after pic's......


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

here is the a little bit of the wood im spliting and the two post for the SUSD and red arrows were the post holes for it are.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

spazzy said:


> looks good so far, progress! lol
> 
> but yea im stoked to get back to oshkosh, but the only bike im bringing is my commuter


Hey if you still want to build i think im building next tuesday....well i think its going to be tuesday build days. I have a hardtail you most likely could use. If everything goes right i should have my Jackal built up by next month. Single speed, Pike u-turn, Code 5's, and transition pedals stem wheel set .


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## pinknugget (Jan 21, 2007)

Good work on the trail man, it must be hard moving from a free ride mecca to bumblefuk flattsville. Way to make the best of what you've got. That ATV stuff would really bum me out. Can they actually hit that, or are they just being dicks and messing with you. If its on your land, why not call the po po? It shouldn't be that hard to identify the guys. I'm sure you want to get back at them, but if they are already wrecking your stuff, that would just escalate the situation.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Hey thanks. I guess there are a lot of ATV's that use that. The cops wont do anything, just tell them to leave. but the thing i dont get is that it wide enough to drive my car down on each side of it with out a problem....So im just going to not both rebuilding. The dirt will all be moved soon, and it will be behind me. Tomorrow im going out to cut more wood and move some branches.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

So i went out and cut a large pile of decking 6-7 inch wide. im going to bring my drill next time to drill pilot holes and my bro and i are going to start making frame work some time soon. I also have added a lot to my pile of logs. I am goin to work of on the raised bridge section first just to have some skinnies. I am building up a SS Vagrant with domain as of next week so that will be perfect for this.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

Looking good. Looks like you are progressing at it slowly but surely. Keep up the good work.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

It will come together a lot guicker then i move. I live 25 minutes away. I get home form school around 3:30 and work at 5 or 6 its hard to find a good time to build. Im would like to have a build party soon with 3-4 builders. i have been having trouble putting in supports because of rocks. Roots are fine they can be cut...but rocks suck. I also found on the back side of the property there is a old road that would be aweseom for a big drop like 10 feet.

im going to work there is sunday to start framing the north shore stuff. i also have to get more used to using a chainsaw.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

*So went out two days ago*

yep i got stormed out. i managed to almost finish the ramp for the SUSD it needs a little more dirt but its on its way. Also i started the north shore section. it has a lot of work to do but its on its way. This is the roller coaster section that will end up most likely in the corn field. Some skinnies off of it and some drops. i have to find other ways to anchor my bridges there is way to much rock in the ground to dig at all. Im using surrounding trees as much as possible. So here they are


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Heres my work today. I need mor dirt on the DJ. i just wanted to shape the curve of the lip the add dirt to the sides and pack that. The north shore section is going okay. i really need help someone to split decking or help build framing. I started the first skinny line as you can see in a couple of those pics. its going to follow an then cut cut over to a big old dead tree. I have been doing a lot of rock work. but it takes a lot of time. I should have the first section of the bridge done soon. I would like to have it done by the time my new hardtail gets here. anyway here they are....


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

wow that looks sick, great work! im real bogged down with school at the moment (insert tests) but give me a bit and i should be able to sneak away m/w/f at 3ish 

cant wait to see your ht build, what did you end up deciding on?? used vagrant or jackel? and yea im kinda working on the hardtail build too...almost pulled the trigger on my parts too but well my truck needs brakes shoes and rotors so there goes my entire budget lol


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Im going with the jackal, they stopped making the vagrant... i can get a complete build for 900 and then switch out the brakes for code 5's and then a argyle or domain 115mm. I should get the money for the bike in the next two weeks. That sucks about your truck. Im hopefully buying a jeep in the next week so thats going to take my budget down a lot.... i just need to work more hours.....


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## dwnhlldav (Feb 2, 2006)

Hey Dude,

Stuff looks good.

I'm just up 41 in Neenah.

If I can find the time to sneak away, I'd love to come help. I've got plenty of hand/cordless tools. But I've also got a ton of other things taking up time. Shoot me an email a couple days in advance of building and I'll see if I can swing it. I travel half of my time for work and work from home the other half of the time. When I am home, my time is pretty flexible.

Of course, I also wanted to help Andy build at Nordic and that ever happened.

I'll pm you my email.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

I sent a email and PM

im going to try building tomorow after school and fin the property line to start building a big drop like 7-12 feet i hope the hardtail can handle that.......i really hope. the landing will be good sized and steep.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

So heres some pics from a day after school. Not a lot at all but i moved some rocks and put a few posts in the grounds for the skinny line (had to get through a lot of rock). then added a very small transition to the skinny, didn't have the chainsaw drill or any gear i had to use the stuff I had stashed there. the rocks i think are going to look awesome. I had too split a lot of wood as well

Hopefully good news. Turns out the head builder of the house is a all mountain guy. He is going to leave me all of the scraps of wood. Im not sure but next the steup up step down is a pile of about 15 2"/6"/10' Also a bunch of asorted woods, stuff thats is dirty and warped. Its out of the way so i hope that i can use it.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

nice nice, scrap is always good, its really taking shape


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

spazzy said:


> nice nice, scrap is always good, its really taking shape


Scrap wood is the way to go. 85+% of the wood Kenny and I have used at his place has come from housing subdivision scrap lumber heaps.
If you are going to do it au-natural like the OP is, it might look a little more natural and clean, but you are going to spend a lot more time primping/preparing the wood for the same results. 
One of our sections...the model railroad, I have built almost entirely out of cedar logs. While it looks totally awesome, the time spent on the prep has been a *****. If I was using cut lumber, I would have long since had it done.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

yeha the slope style section is going to be made with lumber. The northshore trail is very very time consuming. i spend a day cutting squaring and attaching to make a 10 foot section, when lumber i can build a section a day.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

So i went out today and got a little done, also i finaly got my frame, getting the fork soon. I started a new section just because. added the framing for the second section of the roller coaster. the wood in the picture was not for me..... but on a the plus side the dirt in the field is about 2 feet of good dirt for a pump track. So that is going to be my main project, i can ride that on my pump bike. heres the pics

On the roller coaster the second section will have a beam in between the down then up , So its a little smoother


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

dude thats friggen RAD!!!! i wish i had somewhere to build stuff like this. keep us updated!


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## CdaleProph6 (Mar 4, 2008)

rmb_mike said:


> Screws may be more expensive, but the structures will not only last longer, but will be more durable if you use screws.
> ... I highly advise using screws.


nails have a stronger shear strength, sure your gonna have to hit em with a hammer from time to time but thats better than breaking screws on a landing.... my 2 cents


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

I built a large berm today that is leadig to the pump track from the hill and theres going to be a large drop right before it. it was just to dark to take pics. the berm will be about 3 feet tall, and bout 20 feet long then into a table top or a couple of table tops. this will lead in to my pump track. The drop will be about 5 feet. not huge but floaty and smooth good soft laning and floats right in to the berm.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

nice looks amazing! those s berms look super fun already! i can imagine the flow from here


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## trentet (Oct 20, 2004)

*that's debateable*

That depends on screw vs nail cross section thickness, head type, and material, saying one is inherently stronger that the other in shear is at best misleading.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

CdaleProph6 said:


> nails have a stronger shear strength, sure your gonna have to hit em with a hammer from time to time but thats better than breaking screws on a landing.... my 2 cents


I invite anyone to come down to our backyard park and try wholeheartedly to ride and land on anything we've screwed together and break it. 
We use 3" square bit head decking screws on all of our framework and 2 or 2.5" screws on the decking riding surfaces.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

heys some stuff my friend max and me made, he's the one in the pics. it took a little time but it was awesome. The berm is awesome. the table top has a hip landing option that is not finished. The pic of the pile of dirt is the landing for the drop.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

oh and im picking up an Argyle 318 and cane creek s-3 for my new rig today. i have the jackal frame sitting in my room right now.


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

lookin good! keep us updated

no pics of the frame?


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

i'll go take some right now. just a minute


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Here they are.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

noice dude thats sick! i think youll like the argyle 318, i love mine, burley, bombproof and plenty of adjustments for a dj/short travel fr fork

trail looks amazing but the weather today sucks lol so i hope you werent out working too much today


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Yep, i can wait to get it. it should be here by friday

yeah it did, we left right around 3 when it started raining.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Im going to try building tomorrow, i have to see who wants to go. if anyone wants to build just PM me. i would like to add a second table top. anyway im going to order some TBC stepdown pedals.


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## [email protected] (Dec 30, 2007)

dude that setup is awesome!!! id love to help, but i live in San Fancisco the only trails we have are all illegal, need constant repair, or we're dodging people!:madman: keep up the nice work... i wish i had land like that.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

i know how that is, haha, i got a lot done today, i dug the holes for the landing for the drop, the smooth the transiton of the drop to berm then berm to tabletop. Then i added about a foot to the right side of the tabletop just to have a little more wiggle room. oh and added about a half foot on the entrance to the berm.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Heres the plan for tomorrow, im going to go building. First im going to move a lot of rock to the northshore section. then im going to add this rock to the trail. I have a lot of rock from all sizes, im going to semi armor the trail. Sort of like rollers but with rock. if i get that done them im going to put the posts in the ground for the step up that is now packed and smooth. i'll post pics after tomorows build if its light enough. Im going to use a morter like paste that i created, it has sand red clay and fine silt with water. this will seat the rocks a little better then just dirt. but the first section i stated is really packed and looks great.
latter after they finish the septice im going to start the last part of the north shore section. With bridges going into the lower field. if anyone wants to build tomorrow im going to be building. Oh an i have some nice wide logs that would be cool to add to the north shore section. like sinking one end in to the ground the have it connect to another log for a log ride. just a thought


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Update-

So i went out today to move some lumber. A bunch of 2-4's and 2-6's short 12" to 24" peices. The step up step down is going to have to be a tabletop. he power line to my house is right were the posts would go for the step up. so im just going to make it a 20 foot table top. heres my other problem the ground it frozen solid. it took me 30minutes to fill one wheel barrel.

The FR line with the talbetop is going to cut out of the woods into the tall grass and shrubs. near the soy bean field there is going to be a drop in to the field. about 4-5 feet tall. The decking will be made out of the lumber from the house. 

the north shore line its turning out to be very hard to build with the wood i have. My friend pointed out that the current line is going to be to hard to carry speed with. The current bridge looks like a triangle and im going to make it into a trapezoid. this will also reduce wood use. for decking. 

If anyone wants to help out just PM me, and to everyone that has asked to help thank you. it just really hard to plan time in advance to build with work school and weight training.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Update.
-So the snow is about 2 feet deep in some areas. I had the idea to make some snow jumps. This friday im going to build some jumps out of the snow. Then pour water all over it and come back saturday to ride. 

- I am going to take the roller coaster line and make it in to a drop line. I'm going to re-route it to the left and bring it out to the next set of trees and make a 5 foot drop then into some doubles and flowy stuff for my a hardtail. Then the skinnies im going to make in to a roller coaster line. the line will widen into about a foot then go to the field. this change is because I dont have the time to split almost 50 feet of ladders. The roller coaster will be a later project.

- My freeride line is closest to being done. I just need to build the 15 foot double into a big wood berm/wall ride. I can build the double in one or two days, and the wall ride/berm in a week or so. the drop will take only a day if I can get the lumber. The drop will be 25 feet long and 18 inch wide. 

- The other freeride DS 4X practice line just needs a little chainsaw work and digging....okay a lot of digging and chainsaw work. 

- Some more good news! I talked to a couple guys from Wheel and Sprocket, and they are interested in riding and possible building. The more rider input the better. In March, im moving in so I will be building almost everyday. 


Heres a pic of my finished bike


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## CdaleProph6 (Mar 4, 2008)

kitsapfreerider said:


> Update.
> -So the snow is about 2 feet deep in some areas. I had the idea to make some snow jumps. This friday im going to build some jumps out of the snow. Then pour water all over it and come back saturday to ride.
> 
> -


let me know how well that works....im thinkin about doing the same here minus the water part as there is no running water near where i would be making the piles...and i have no studded tires for my bullit...the snow is drivin me nuts


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

tip for snow jumps....get some carpet scraps and when you pour your water on lay them on your inrun and up to the lip and also your lander...(dont pour the water on top, pour the water on the jumps, shape them and then the carpet on top)

makes for much much better traction, and you dont have to ice the carpet in, but it prevents them from sliding around on you

another good tip is not to make the lips super steep as the snow will crumble, make them more wedge launchers or just make a snow table

have fun!


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> dude that setup is awesome!!! id love to help, but i live in San Fancisco the only trails we have are all illegal, need constant repair, or we're dodging people!:madman: keep up the nice work... *i wish i had land like that*.


If you lived anywhere else other that California (or maybe FL) you could have land like that.

kitsap,
If the ground is frozen, you just might as well work on something else other than diggin up dirt. It's a lost cause.
I had every plan on going out to our ewok village to dig up some dirt last Saturday, but mother nature and her 20 degrees of weather all day wasn't havin any of it. So we just finished clearing out the trees/brush, etc. for our dirt jump line. 
I think the best time to dig up dirt is just after it rained. Granted it's muddy as hell and the dirt is heavier, but it's oh so soft and easy to dig up.


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## Diggidy (Jan 1, 2008)

Man I wouldn't mind coming up to Osh kosh bgosh! and helping shovel a little bit.

For real though man if you haven't already you need to take that jackel down to Madison and ride Quarry park; it's about the best you're going to find in Wisconsin to ride with that.


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## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

kitsapfreerider said:


> Update.
> 
> Heres a pic of my finished bike


OHHH My DAMN!!!!!!!!!! That is one sexy sled right there!


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

sodak06 said:


> OHHH My DAMN!!!!!!!!!! That is one sexy sled right there!


+1
The way the geo is so slack and the seat is down so low, it almost looks like a trials bike.
It looks very clean and simple. 
I like those Revo wheels. I almost got a set of those for my BR, but I wound up finding a better deal on some Outlaws. Good looking bike though. 
Since your land looks fairly flat, I won't say anything about you not having a front brake. Haha.


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## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

Man, i envy you kitsap, you have a great set of trails and a kickass Jackal to go with it, both look really tight! post up actionshots when your finished!


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Thanks, yeah i really like the slack/short feel , awesome for corners and getting up into the air. Yeah the seat is down that low for urban stuff. Im getting a front brake in the next month, another Code 5. 

Im not one for steep lips. all ofthe jumps I do are smooth flowy and long. I might, if i get the chance, build a ski jump like the one at my old house 28 feet and smooth as butter. It would be something to work some tricks up on. The forecast says I should be able to dig again by the end of march.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

spazzy said:


> tip for snow jumps....get some carpet scraps and when you pour your water on lay them on your inrun and up to the lip and also your lander...(dont pour the water on top, pour the water on the jumps, shape them and then the carpet on top)
> 
> makes for much much better traction, and you dont have to ice the carpet in, but it prevents them from sliding around on you
> 
> ...


Awesome, I think I have some carpet packed away.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

kitsapfreerider said:


> Thanks, yeah i really like the slack/short feel , awesome for corners and getting up into the air. Yeah the seat is down that low for urban stuff. Im getting a front brake in the next month, another Code 5.


I have the seat all the way down on my BR as well. I'd rather avoid any inadvertent seat enemas if all possible.



> Man, i envy you kitsap, you have a great set of trails and a kickass Jackal to go with it, both look really tight! post up actionshots when your finished!


I would envy him too, but I got a similar project going on (abeit on less land) in a warmer location. Haha.
When I get a bit more construction done on mine, I'll have to start a thread about it too. 
I think that everyone who has a project like this going on, should have their own thread; I enjoy seeing all the backyard parks.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

*Pump track*

I was wonder if anyone would be interested in building a pump track? I will start building in late march. If anyone wants to help just send me a PM. I know i have a lot of projects but it will all come together.

The snow has started to melt but another two inches is expected tonight.it should be melted by late march.


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*late March?*

What would lead you to believe the snow will be gone by late March?  Don't let that calendar fool you.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

lol, i know last year i figured my FR trail would be drained in washington 6.5 miles back and theres a hip deep pool of water we "had" to wade through..lol... i just figure that because its a field and there has been a lot of wind that most of the snow will drift and the sun will be hitting it for most of the day by March. Last year at that time the snow had melted off of a lot of local fields.


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## pacoverde (Nov 13, 2008)

i even use the road to pedal up to the trail, im 13 and do 20 footers on my xc bike. ive never had any problems


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

pacoverde said:


> i even use the road to pedal up to the trail, im 13 and do 20 footers on my xc bike. ive never had any problems


I'm a little confused???


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

Well i'm back again. I am officially moved in to my new house. Here are some updates. I have a large amount of wood to use to build with. I definitely have enough to make my drop into that table top line. i started building the ladders for that drop yesterday, but i need a new set of jigsaw bits to curve edges. I have done a lot of work on my pump track. I am about 2/3's done with the outside loop. The pictures are not very good and don't really show the pump track that well. I don't know whats up with the black and white pictures either. Oh and put in a picture of my new jeep with some upgrades.


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## freaknunu (Jan 19, 2009)

the pump track is looking good dude, keep up the building


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

looks good, looks like lots of land. and that jeep is mint!


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

looks great dude


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

kitsapfreerider said:


> Well i'm back again. I am officially moved in to my new house. Here are some updates. I have a large amount of wood to use to build with. I definitely have enough to make my drop into that table top line. i started building the ladders for that drop yesterday, but i need a new set of jigsaw bits to curve edges. I have done a lot of work on my pump track. I am about 2/3's done with the outside loop. The pictures are not very good and don't really show the pump track that well. I don't know whats up with the black and white pictures either. Oh and put in a picture of my new jeep with some upgrades.


Thos pictures were taken a while back, weren't they?
Because if not, I don't think the trees up there in WI have received the memo that it's spring. Our trees down here have been green for the last three weeks.


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## xterrain (May 6, 2008)

Jeez, I wish I had that kind of dirt here in Texas, only areas close to the river here in town do we find easy to work with dirt.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

xterrain said:


> Jeez, I wish I had that kind of dirt here in Texas, only areas close to the river here in town do we find easy to work with dirt.


an exterior spigot and water hose spraying out water will do wonders for dirt that is hard to work with


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

rmb_mike said:


> an exterior spigot and water hose spraying out water will do wonders for dirt that is hard to work with


yeah i'm going to have to get about 100yards of hose to reach the track.

xterrain, trust me the soil here is not easy to work with... it falls apart and to get to any good soil its about 3 feet down with large rocks and sand stone intermixed


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

those pics are from about a week ago. still theres very little green, but with the rain the past two weeks we are starting to see a lot more.


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## ridefreeride (Apr 8, 2009)

ah sweet biulding reminds me of the good old days

keep on going on


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## axolotl (Apr 24, 2008)

*Screws can't take swelling*



rmb_mike said:


> Most everything there was built using screws. I don't like dealing with nails. Screws may be more expensive, but the structures will not only last longer, but will be more durable if you use screws.
> The only structure I can think of that was built with nails, is the first big berm/wallride at the bottom of the 6er drop; one of our friends brought his nail gun with him one day and built it for us. Funny thing is, one of the sections towards the bottom, on the bottom plane of if came loose last week. We fixed it using screws this time. Haha.
> If you want it to last more than one season, I highly advise using screws.


You better treat the wood so it doesn't take on water. If it does, it can break screws in half when the wood swells.


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