# Tire advice



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi, I just bought a 2013 Fuji Nevada 1.9 mountain bike. my local bike shop was clearing out the inventory to make room for 2014 models and I think I got a great deal, $310. 








2013 Fuji Nevada 29 1.9 - BikePedia

I love the bike, its my first 29" mountain bike with disc brakes so I'm still getting used to the height difference. I took it out on some local trails that I always hit before with other bikes and immediately I noticed that the tires it comes with (Vera Eos 29x2.1) are horrible whenever I hit a bit of sand or loose dirt. Its actually dangerous because the bike just loses all traction. Luckily I didn't take a spill but I did have some close moments.

So my question initially is, do I need different tires or maybe the tire PSI set too high? what PSI should I be running on trails for this type of tire? If its a matter of changing to a different tire, what do you guys suggest? I want to keep the 29" and ideally I want to keep the wheels so I'm really looking for a good 29x2.1 tire that would handle well in sand and loose dirt.
​
Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## joe_bloe (Nov 18, 2010)

How much do you weigh? In my experience, riding with lots of newer riders, they tend to have the tire pressure WAY too high. If you weigh between 180 and 200 lbs (taking a wild-ass guess here), I'd run those tires at between 30 and 35 psi. If you weigh less than 180, I'd experiment with pressures as low as 25 psi. You may get a pinch flat if you go too low; if you do, there's your clue that you've gone too low on the pressure, so go back up a few pounds.


----------



## joe_bloe (Nov 18, 2010)

PS, congratulations on the new bike!


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

joe_bloe said:


> PS, congratulations on the new bike!


Thanks for the response Joe. I'm a bit bigger than 200. I'm actually in the 230's and 6' tall. I'm not sure what PSI the tires are set at now but the ride seems hard, or harder than on my last bike which was an older Trek 4900 running 26 x 2.20" Bontrager ACX tires. That bike ran great on the same trails I'm going on now. It just lacked the clearance that these 29" are now giving me. Again, I love the bike overall except for this small issue which I'm sure I can figure out.​


----------



## joe_bloe (Nov 18, 2010)

OK, well first things first, get a good tire gauge. I like this one - it works for both presta and schrader.

Then start experimenting. At 230, I'd guess 35 psi would still be a safe pressure, plus or minus a few psi. Start lowering the pressure, and see how the ride improves. You just want to be sure you never feel the rim strike the ground on a hard bump or root.


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

It's important that you include as little information as possible. Where you bike, what kind of trails, weight, experience, etc., ...all that information should be dragged out of you.


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

MSU Alum said:


> It's important that you include as little information as possible. Where you bike, what kind of trails, weight, experience, etc., ...all that information should be dragged out of you.


Thanks for the sarcasm, I thought I was being upfront with the info. 
Type of bike: check
Type of tires: check
Type of trail: check
Rider profile: overlooked
Current PSI: unknown

What else do you need to know to give me some good advice on tires?


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

joe_bloe said:


> OK, well first things first, get a good tire gauge. I like this one - it works for both presta and schrader.
> 
> Then start experimenting. At 230, I'd guess 35 psi would still be a safe pressure, plus or minus a few psi. Start lowering the pressure, and see how the ride improves. You just want to be sure you never feel the rim strike the ground on a hard bump or root.


Joe, I appreciate your help buddy. I'll take a look at the PSI when I get home. In your opinion do you feel that tire set up should be able to handle sand and loose dirt? or would I be better off with a different tire?


----------



## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

I think tire pressure could help, but those are some cheap (very cheap) tires that are on the low end, and you will find their limit offroad very quickly. They are mainly designed for bike paths, or road. Upgrading to a better set of tires will make a world of difference. 

High end tires can be very expensive if bought retail, but I have had excellent luck on ebay buying from crosslake bike sales and others. I got some Continental race kings 29x2.2 with tubes for like $45 shipped. Brand new take offs. Those tires have great grip in everything but mud, and roll very fast. They are high volume which gives a little more cushion and some grip.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Tires are important but the psi you run them at is even more critical. Different tires may well be a worthwhile upgrade but without knowing where you are at with the ones you have its pointless.

I don't know of any tire that doesn't wash out in sand so that could be more of a technique issue rather than a tire one.


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

FujiMatador said:


> Thanks for the sarcasm, I thought I was being upfront with the info.
> Type of bike: check
> Type of tires: check
> Type of trail: check
> ...


Experience: not checked
Weight: not checked
Location: not checked
Type of trail: some sand and loose dirt? Wow, a trail with dirt and sand. call that not checked
Where you bike: not checked


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

Got it. Makes total sense. could the wheel width also have something to do with the problem? assuming that the 29X2.1 number of the tire spec is the width and the fact that its 2.1 instead of 2.2 means its a narrower tire. Again, I'm in the learning phase so I appreciate everyone's help and advice.


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

MSU Alum said:


> Experience: not checked
> Weight: not checked
> Location: not checked
> Type of trail: some sand and loose dirt? Wow, a trail with dirt and sand. call that not checked
> Where you bike: not checked


lets not get all sarcy and douchey now eh. Man prob just needs a bit of guidance.


----------



## citiznkain (Jun 11, 2012)

MSU Alum said:


> Experience: not checked
> Weight: not checked
> Location: not checked
> Type of trail: some sand and loose dirt? Wow, a trail with dirt and sand. call that not checked
> Where you bike: not checked


Experience: Posting in the beginners-corner. He must be a pro....
Weight: 230+lbs as stated
Location: Not that important for a question about getting squirrely in sections of loose dirt sand. perhaps an analysis for the type of sand and dirt may help? 
Type of trail: the rest of the the trail appears to be fine EXCEPT FOR THE SECTION WITH SAND.
Where you bike: Same as location right? 
Hobbies and interests: not checked
Favorite color: not checked
Favorite food: not checked
stool sample: not checked

FujiMatador,
welcome to the forum! Are you centering your weight over the rear tire more when you hit loose stuff? if I'm to far forward through loose gravel or dirt I tend to get a little loose, regardless of the tire or PSI.


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Brockwan said:


> lets not get all sarcy and douchey now eh. Man prob just needs a bit of guidance.


That's why I'm here. Guidance given. What can I say, I'm a dick!


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

MSU Alum said:


> That's why I'm here. Guidance given. What can I say, I'm a dick!


at least you are honest


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

citiznkain said:


> FujiMatador,
> welcome to the forum! Are you centering your weight over the rear tire more when you hit loose stuff? if I'm to far forward through loose gravel or dirt I tend to get a little loose, regardless of the tire or PSI.


Thanks for the welcome. I'm leaning back, more on the rear tire as I'm going downhill and it will slide if I hit a pocket of sand towards the bottom of the trail. But it really becomes more of an issue as I'm trying to pedal uphill. I'll hit a patch of sand and the tires just sink in and spin, no traction. during uphill pedaling I'll either be somewhat centered or when it gets really hard I'll be standing up and leaning a bit more on the front.

These trails are a mix of mountain biking and horse back riding trails. So I'm assuming that the sand patches are for the horses than anything else. I might be wrong. The bike rides great on asphalt or even hard-packed dirt trails. It just loses momentum and traction as soon as the trail gets loose with sand or soggy foliage.

Also, I'm on Long Island, NY so there really is no way to avoid sand, its pretty much everywhere haha.


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Rocky trails will limit the degree to which you can lower the pressure on your tires due to the increased chances of pinch flats, especially if you are in an area prone to square edged "steps". Also, depending on terrain, if you go too low on pressure, the tire will tend to fold under in hard turns. Too high, if the trails tend toward the technical, and your tires will bounce around off of obstacles and make control difficult. Check the width of your bike in where the tires are to see if you can go bigger and by how much. Given that you are on a hardtail if the terrain is uneven, a bigger tire, such as a 2.35 Ikon, will help with smoothing out the terrain, if it fits. The same tire should fit on the fork and the volume helps if in deep sand (but the small tread is not good for thin sand over hardpack). If you are in an area that has steep up and downgrades, a beefier tread design could be advantageous. Given your weight, the weight of the tire is of no real consequence. You have the strength to compensate. There are very good manufacturers, such as Schwalbe and Continental that make excellent high end tires and have economical versions that often have similar rubber compounds and the exact same tread, so they are a good value. Depending on where you live, the sand could be deep (like Moab) or thin over hard pack (like Michigan) regardless, there are designs, such as the Maxxis Ardent, that are better than others. Again, if you are in rocky terrain, a tire with tread that extends slightly beyond the carcass, will help protect that carcass from damage and wear. Check with your LBS, they may have tire choices figured out in your area.


----------



## dharel1705 (May 21, 2012)

FujiMatador said:


> Also, I'm on Long Island, NY so there really is no way to avoid sand, its pretty much everywhere haha.


I'm from LI too. Where have you been riding? I mostly ride Bethpage. The sand, as you've said, is pretty unavoidable. I hate it, as it gets into everything. With sand, I find that I just have to power through it. I do my best to build some speed before I come to a sandy uphill climb (not that there are that many on LI), and try to keep my rear wheel spinning while adjusting my position to slightly lighten the back end of the bike (I'm on a hard tail). If you've ever watched a 4x4 ride through sand or even mud, you'll notice that the driver will always try to go full throttle to keep the wheels spinning. I also learned this while riding ATVs on sand dunes in Mexico.


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

MSU Alum said:


> Rocky trails will limit the degree to which you can lower the pressure on your tires due to the increased chances of pinch flats, especially if you are in an area prone to square edged "steps". Also, depending on terrain, if you go too low on pressure, the tire will tend to fold under in hard turns. Too high, if the trails tend toward the technical, and your tires will bounce around off of obstacles and make control difficult. Check the width of your bike in where the tires are to see if you can go bigger and by how much. Given that you are on a hardtail if the terrain is uneven, a bigger tire, such as a 2.35 Ikon, will help with smoothing out the terrain, if it fits. The same tire should fit on the fork and the volume helps if in deep sand (but the small tread is not good for thin sand over hardpack). If you are in an area that has steep up and downgrades, a beefier tread design could be advantageous. Given your weight, the weight of the tire is of no real consequence. You have the strength to compensate. There are very good manufacturers, such as Schwalbe and Continental that make excellent high end tires and have economical versions that often have similar rubber compounds and the exact same tread, so they are a good value. Depending on where you live, the sand could be deep (like Moab) or thin over hard pack (like Michigan) regardless, there are designs, such as the Maxxis Ardent, that are better than others. Again, if you are in rocky terrain, a tire with tread that extends slightly beyond the carcass, will help protect that carcass from damage and wear. Check with your LBS, they may have tire choices figured out in your area.


Awesome response, thanks buddy.


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

dharel1705 said:


> I'm from LI too. Where have you been riding? I mostly ride Bethpage. The sand, as you've said, is pretty unavoidable. I hate it, as it gets into everything. With sand, I find that I just have to power through it. I do my best to build some speed before I come to a sandy uphill climb (not that there are that many on LI), and try to keep my rear wheel spinning while adjusting my position to slightly lighten the back end of the bike (I'm on a hard tail). If you've ever watched a 4x4 ride through sand or even mud, you'll notice that the driver will always try to go full throttle to keep the wheels spinning. I also learned this while riding ATVs on sand dunes in Mexico.


That's EXACTLY where I ride. I park in the parking lot and hit the trails from there. I tend to go in the evenings after work (around 5:30) on Tue, Wed and in the morning on the weekends. If you go during that time I would love to meet up and possibly hit some trails and get some advice from a local.

I have a Jeep so I also tend to do quite a bit of offroading, so I'm familiar with the principles of airing down and speeding up for momentum. The problem I have with the bike is retaining traction, but I'm going to check the tire PSI when I get home, set it to 35 and also check width clearance to see if I can fit a wider tire down the road.

I have another probably silly question, but I'll ask it anyway, can I put a wider tire on the same wheel I have now? or will have to get a wider wheel also?


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

You shouldn't need a bigger rim (wider wheel).


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

That's awesome. I'll get some measurements when I get home along with the PSI. Hopefully its just a matter of dialing in the pressure but if not I don't mind buying a set of good tires if it will help the situation.


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

So I'm back home and went to take a look at the tire's PSI. I was really surprised when I saw the PSI ratings on the side wall. Apparently the Min. is 40 and the max is 65!










I then went and checked what PSI I was running and both front and back were at 51 PSI









I'm not sure I should be lowering it to 35 PSI. What do you guys think?


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

Also, here are some photos of the clearance to gauge an opinion if I can run a wider tire or not

Rear









Front


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Lawyers are at least partially responsible for those pressure ratings, 25 psi is no problem for a light rider. I think 35 psi would be a good starting point for you, though you might have to go a tad higher. 51 is really high.

You might look into for a wider tire for the conditions you're describing, check your frame for tire clearance.

Just saw the pics in your last post and they make it look pretty tight, I like to see 1/4 in. clearance min, 1/2" is better.


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

I'm actually slightly under 1/2" for the rear










and slightly over 1/2" in the front










Do you think I could at least step up from 29x2.1 to 29x2.2?


----------



## dboneslick (Apr 28, 2013)

If you have 1/2 inch one each side, you could get away with 2.25 or 2.3" tires. 2.3 will only add 0.1" to each side of your 2.1, theoretically leaving you with 0.4" of clearance on each side. 
This is all theoretical since all tires are measured differently. I would try your tires at a lower pressure before you spend money on new ones. You might like these enough to wear them out before upgrading.


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

Sounds good. I'll give them a try at a lower psi, thanks.


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

Quick question, can Use the tube that's in my 29x2.1 tire now and use it on a 29.2.25 tire?


----------



## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

Usually you can use the same tubes. I dont think the issue is nearly as much the size of the tire, as the quality of the tire.
Remember when you get bigger tires, you raise the rotating mass.


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

FujiMatador said:


> Quick question, can Use the tube that's in my 29x2.1 tire now and use it on a 29.2.25 tire?


You should be ok on the tube package it usually says something like 1.8-2.5 indicating the tire span it's meant for.


----------



## dharel1705 (May 21, 2012)

FujiMatador said:


> That's EXACTLY where I ride. I park in the parking lot and hit the trails from there. I tend to go in the evenings after work (around 5:30) on Tue, Wed and in the morning on the weekends. If you go during that time I would love to meet up and possibly hit some trails and get some advice from a local.
> 
> I have a Jeep so I also tend to do quite a bit of offroading, so I'm familiar with the principles of airing down and speeding up for momentum. The problem I have with the bike is retaining traction, but I'm going to check the tire PSI when I get home, set it to 35 and also check width clearance to see if I can fit a wider tire down the road.
> 
> I have another probably silly question, but I'll ask it anyway, can I put a wider tire on the same wheel I have now? or will have to get a wider wheel also?


As long as the weather is good, and I don't have any family commitments, I tend to hit Bethpage on Saturday and/or Sunday mornings between 9 and 10:30am. It would be cool to meet up.

I run my tire PSI at around 38-40 PSI (I'm a bit on the heavy side geared up), on the stock Specialized Fast Trak 26x2.0 tires on my Hardrock.


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

Awesome, lets try to meet up at 10 a.m. tomorrow. I'll be in a Black Jeep and we can meet down in the parking lot. 

I have the tires aired down to 40 PSI and I'll give that a try


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

So a quick update. On Sat. I lowered the PSI to 40 and hit the trails, the combination of tire pressure along with tips I picked up from the biking skills video made a HUGE difference. It was like night and day, I never realized that I had been making so many rookie errors in terms of how I approached and handled turns. The lower PSI also helped the tires grab much better. 

On Sun. I lowered them to 35 PSI and felt an even better improvement in grip. But I noticed that by far the greatest improvement was how I rode the back and how I positioned myself for turns. Now the only issue I have is pedaling through sand when I hit a patch. The tires grab a bit better but I still loose traction from simple peddling straight. Would better tires help or is it purely the nature of the beast?


----------



## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

Like I said in my original reply. Those tires are low quality and cheap. You will find their limits very quickly.


----------



## joe_bloe (Nov 18, 2010)

But in my experience, just about any tire will slip in sand.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

joe_bloe said:


> But in my experience, just about any tire will slip in sand.


Mine too. I don't live near an ocean, but we have a lot of fine sand in dry washes here and when it gets deep I've found the best technique is to gain as much speed as I can before hitting the sand as and mostly "surf" through it while pedaling as little as possible. Of course that only works for distances up to 30 feet or so, I can't comment on how to tackle longer sections.

I do know that it makes little difference whether using my nicer 2.3's or riding my sons bike with stock (cheap) 2.1's, no real control either way.


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

That's what I'm thinking. I want to know if its just the nature of the beast and very little I can do about it or will I really benefit from better tires? Honestly, since I lowered the PSI and adjusted my body position in turns things seem much much better, I'm slowly gaining more confidence and learning to trust the bike as I go into turns faster. If upgrading the tires gives me an even better result than I might do it.


----------



## davez26 (Dec 2, 2004)

Sand is a bummer for everyone. You may be able to buy a tire that is awesome in sand, but lose performance in other areas.
Unless you have a ton of sand, I'd keep after the psi, and ride, ride, ride 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## FujiMatador (Sep 19, 2013)

True, I'll just keep on riding and see where the PSI sweet spot is for these tires and my terrain. Sand just kills my momentum, I'll have great speed coming out of a turn and hit a pocket of sand and almost stop instantly, Its like quick sand for the bike. The more I peddle the deeper it digs in. 

I always mentioned the tires because on my Trek I don't remember having that problem and that bike had 26 x 2.20" Bontrager ACX tires. Are they better?


----------

