# Help me understand the fairer sex



## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

Sorry for creating another one of 'those' threads. I read the FAQ threads and I think I'm heading in the right direction but I'd like a little bit of feedback.

I've been dating a nice girl for a couple months now, and I've got her set up with a pretty good bike. Previously she was not into biking at all but she thought it would be a fun way to exercise and I thought it would be something we could do together. However, I'm running into some snags and I'd like some advice on where to go from here.

When we ride together she wants me in front, but to go slow. (Her speed.) Why? I said I would follow her but she didn't want that. But she doesn't really want me to go on ahead. (When I do, I stop and wait for her every so often.) This lead to another problem. Can someone tell me why I can't just follow her? I don't get it. I don't mind going slow at all and I tell her that.

She's crashed twice now. These are just on some fire roads. The last one was over the bars at pretty low speed. The one before that she fell over and landed on a rock. Both caused by too much application of front brake. At the speeds she is going rear brake is fine for now, so I said she should use just that one but that suggestion didn't help. Both times she's blamed the crash on me. :madman: Why did you put on brakes that are so strong? You were talking to me, distracting me. You slowed down too fast in front of me. Ugggh.

It's hard. I don't want to tell her what to do but I want to maximize her enjoyment of cycling so we can do it more together. I don't want her to become discouraged by crashing. I encourage her while riding but she doesn't want me talking to her. I got her a nice bike that fits her well. We ride on easy fire roads and take lots of breaks.

My plan going forward is to have her take a women's skills class and I found another beginner women for her to ride with. I tried to get her to ride with knee & elbow pads but I can barely get her to use gloves. What do you guys suggest? Am I heading in the right direction?


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## TVC15 (Jun 6, 2004)

presslab said:


> Both times she's blamed the crash on me. :madman:


:lol: Sorry, I found that funny.



presslab said:


> Am I heading in the right direction?


Unless you're turning around and running like hell, I doubt it.


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## deanna (Jan 15, 2004)

presslab said:


> When we ride together she wants me in front, but to go slow. (Her speed.) Why? I said I would follow her but she didn't want that. But she doesn't really want me to go on ahead. (When I do, I stop and wait for her every so often.) This lead to another problem. Can someone tell me why I can't just follow her? I don't get it. I don't mind going slow at all and I tell her that.
> 
> My plan going forward is to have her take a women's skills class and I found another beginner women for her to ride with. I tried to get her to ride with knee & elbow pads but I can barely get her to use gloves. What do you guys suggest? Am I heading in the right direction?


I HATE being followed by someone who's faster than I am and I've been riding for 11 years now. There's just something about a person right behind me that makes me nervous and more prone to wrecks. Even when I was a beginner, I prefered the other person just wait up every so often to make sure I wasn't dead.

If she'll attend a women's clinic and ride with the other beginner woman you know... that would be a good direction to head. You just have to stay home (or at least waaaaaaaay out of the picture).


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

do what my hubby did when I started- tell her not to use her front brake as that's a good way to prevent endos.

As for the who's in front thing, could be a safety issue, not feeling confident of "leading" the ride, fear of getting lost.

And, what they said. She will find her own way or she won't, not much you can to do hasten it along but if she WANTS to go to a clinic, that's a good place to start.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

TVC15 said:


> presslab said:
> 
> 
> > Am I heading in the right direction?
> ...


  Yeah the blaming crashing on me is annoying for sure! But I'm not giving up quite yet.



deanna said:


> I HATE being followed by someone who's faster than I am and I've been riding for 11 years now. There's just something about a person right behind me that makes me nervous and more prone to wrecks. Even when I was a beginner, I prefered the other person just wait up every so often to make sure I wasn't dead.


Ok that makes sense. I don't really ride right on her rear tire or anything though but I could see that. When riding dirt bikes the sound of my buddies engine on my ass definitely motivates me to go faster! 

I suggested the clinic and she is all for it, so that's good. :thumbsup: I guess I'm a little bummed because I think at least for now riding bikes together is something that's not going to work out.


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## KevinB (Oct 5, 2004)

presslab said:


> When we ride together she wants me in front, but to go slow. (Her speed.) Why? I said I would follow her but she didn't want that. But she doesn't really want me to go on ahead. (When I do, I stop and wait for her every so often.) This lead to another problem. Can someone tell me why I can't just follow her? I don't get it. I don't mind going slow at all and I tell her that.


I might be able to help with this one. On terrain that she finds challenging, my wife wants me to ride ahead of her also. There are at least two reasons for this: 1) She doesn't want me worry about me running into her. 2) She's concerned that she'll be holding me up and therefore will ride faster than she finds comfortable. My wife is okay with me riding behind when the terrain isn't challenging. It may be that as your girlfriend's skills improve that she'll be more comfortable with you behind too.


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## cyberdivachick (Jan 30, 2007)

If the person is a better rider than me, I want them in front of me, NOT behind me. I am able to copy their body position, their lines not to mention if we are riding something technical, they will be committed to riding it, then I will be too. I do this all the time with girls I ride with who are better riders than me. I know they will ride it, then I will too. I just follow and copy them. Then I feel much more confident in my riding skills.
Women's clinics are a must for her. So are pads. Once she rips open her knees and elbows enough, maybe she will reconsider. Good luck, remember, this needs to be fun and good exersise for her.


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## cyberdivachick (Jan 30, 2007)

More on pads: Rock Garden makes pretty pink leg armor for women. I wear them EVERY ride. They are really cute and I feel MUCH more confident knowing I have padding on incase I fall. Now if I don't where my padding, that is when I get nervous! Maybe a nice surprise of cute, pink leg armor for her next ride?


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

believe it or not some women can find fire roads intimidating. I think its the gravel, sort of bouncing the tire around


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## cyberdivachick (Jan 30, 2007)

Riding fire roads can be very scary! I would much rather descend down any single track than a loose fire road. It is also more interesting! Fire roads get boring pretty quick too. Are there any nice, rolly, quite single tracks in your area you could take her on? That would perk her up!


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

Those pink knee pads look sweet..










I don't see any elbows in pink though other than the jacket. Thanks for the tip though I'll pick those up for her.

Man, I wish there was nice flowing singletrack here! At Annadel it's mostly rocks, she'd be walking pretty much the whole trail. And it's steep. Don't get me wrong, I love the rocks but it's too technical for her right now. Maybe I can think of somewhere to go.


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## badjenny (Mar 13, 2006)

You must have buddies with wives or girlfriends who ride. Can you set up a play date with them?  She may do better without you around. Sorry, but sometimes the boyfriend/girlfriend dynamic gets in the way. Too many emotions, etc. She may be intimidated or fear "looking stupid" in front of you. Just a guess.... Maybe she needs to get some ride time in with other people, she may learn something from a female rider that you may have trouble communicating to her because of different riding styles, thought process, whatever. 

As for the who rides lead thing, I personally prefer in really technical sections that my guy is in front of me. Sometimes so I can watch his body postion, lines, etc and sometimes so I don't feel nervous with him on my tail. But mostly because, I hate to see him go but I love watching him ride away. :blush: ha ha ha


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

jeffscott said:


> believe it or not some women can find fire roads intimidating. I think its the gravel, sort of bouncing the tire around


I'd agree there. Fire roads actually take more advanced cornering skills at any real speed than singletrack does due to the total lack of a berm, adding loose gravel, etc. Fire roads are either total boredom when you're in control or sheer terror if you're not. There's really not much fun about them either way.

Get her out on some easy singletrack.

And while it may not be fun for you - I generally don't want to be in the lead ahead of faster people either. I would much rather try to follow their line and mimic what they're doing. I don't mind if they go on ahead, but if I'm out with someone trying to teach me, they have to stay at a pace where I can still see them or I might as well ride alone. (And there's nothing wrong with that sometimes, but if you're saying "ride it like this, watch my line, etc" - you can't do that without you in the lead and going slow)

Get her out riding with some clinics or beginner groups part of the time, and when she is with you - ride slow and let her follow.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Sounds like she is managing a lot.*

Breath very deep very often. This is a very complicated and convoluted task.

While you are her best and most comprehensive source of information on what you guys are doing the exchange is troublesome and just adds to the stress.

First off, you have a relationship to complicate things. Being an authority on the trail is all tangled up with authority in your relationship. The fact is you are the riding authority but will have to deal with the fallout in the realtionship after the ride. Your authority stops at the trail. Choose your battles.

She is not you and does not have you history with athletics

How you parcel out information is critical. Attitude is everything.

Coaching is a skill which takes years to learn.

Breath very deep very often. This is a very complicated and convoluted task.

Simplify. People really can only learn one thing at a time. I sitll don't understand why newbs are started on dirt.:madman: Cycling in itself is a skill and mtb is much more elaborate on top of that.

Slow down. Most of what you can do in your sleep is simply beyond newbs.

Identify her needs. Ask her what she would like to learn from each ride. It makes her feel in control. Even if she is choosing the wrong thing do it her way. This is not a straight line affair.

Breath very deep very often. This is a very complicated and convoluted task.

She is not a guy. Do not blow by this fact. It is easy to say that you are aware of this and you even allude to it in the title of your post. However, I wonder if you realy know what this means.

There is a reason to send family members to driving school rather than teach them youself.

Good luck.


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## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

presslab said:


> When we ride together she wants me in front, but to go slow. (Her speed.) Why? I said I would follow her but she didn't want that. But she doesn't really want me to go on ahead. (When I do, I stop and wait for her every so often.) This lead to another problem. Can someone tell me why I can't just follow her? I don't get it. I don't mind going slow at all and I tell her that.


when I read this, I thought for sure it was my boyfriend talking about me when I was learning. My thought is that it's really stressful when you're trying so hard to have someone behind you watching every move. The pressure to not dab a foot or go over an obstacle is magnified by someone watching. I also hated how when I would stop suddenly, which happens, that he would ride right up my backside nearly tipping me over. Additionally, I liked to watch him go over things. If he made it easily, I could do it. If he struggled, then I knew that maybe it was a bit too advanced for me. It was comforting to see him clear things.



> She's crashed twice now. These are just on some fire roads. The last one was over the bars at pretty low speed. The one before that she fell over and landed on a rock. Both caused by too much application of front brake. At the speeds she is going rear brake is fine for now, so I said she should use just that one but that suggestion didn't help. Both times she's blamed the crash on me. :madman: Why did you put on brakes that are so strong? You were talking to me, distracting me. You slowed down too fast in front of me. Ugggh.


Haha, I did that too. Both of them! It was distracting when I was concentrating so hard and he would start talking. Sometimes I would be so focused that I couldn't talk, nor did I want to hear him talk. I also yelled at him for slowing down too fast. This was usually because he stops in stupid places to see if I make it over something, but when I saw him stop, it would throw me off. I never complained about my brakes though



> My plan going forward is to have her take a women's skills class and I found another beginner women for her to ride with. I tried to get her to ride with knee & elbow pads but I can barely get her to use gloves. What do you guys suggest? Am I heading in the right direction?


My boyfriend tried to get me to wear pads forever and it really wasn't until he stopped pressuring that I got some. I'm just tired of getting banged up.

The good news? I don't blame him for anything anymore. My skills have improved and all my yelling was just out of frustration. It can very mentally and physically demanding to learn to mountain bike. I wanted to be good so badly that it drove me nuts. I was so angry when I didn't conquer something right away and would get pissy. My boyfriend is happy these days are over:thumbsup: So I think things might improve as her skills do. Just keep in mind how much of a mental struggle it can be.


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## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

presslab said:


> Man, I wish there was nice flowing singletrack here! At Annadel it's mostly rocks, she'd be walking pretty much the whole trail. And it's steep. Don't get me wrong, I love the rocks but it's too technical for her right now. Maybe I can think of somewhere to go.


My boyfriend spent time with me before or after the ride/or a different day going out on the grass or curbs and practicing tight turns around trees, wheelies and keeping a line. Practicing these things without jagged rocks staring at you from every side is helpful.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

My 2 cents

Find a trail *she* likes and ride it often. It's a lot less intimidating to go on a trail that you know. Let her tell you when she is bored and wants to try something new.

If she crashes, or does something "wrong", don't automatically tell her what she did. Let her vent. When she is feeling better and happy, ask her if she knows what she did wrong. It is more instructive for someone to figure it out for yourself than to have someone "telling" you whats is "wrong" with you.

Annadel has lots of stuff she could ride, and practice on, including lots of fireroad. I don't think it should be written off. But if you go with her, you aren't going to be doing your usual loops, at least not for a while.


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## Crack Monkey (Sep 25, 2006)

My wife is a beginner mtn biker, though she's been a recreational roadie for years.

She HATES riding in front of me, for all the reasons mentioned above. She's fallen a few times, only partially blaming me. ("why did you convince me to attempt that log crossing? Now I'm covered in bruises and my coworkers will think you beat me!")

I've accepted that it is going to take a long time to get her to my level. And even if I can do that, she's unlikely to acquire my desire to ride technical trails or fast downhills. I'm thrilled that she's committed to trying a XC race next season - that's more than I ever expected.

Edit - one more thing - my wife goes into total NOOB zone on new trails. She gets outside her comfort zone VERY easily. She can bomb along the local trail at a reasonable clip, but put her on a similarly technical trail across town, and it's like she's never ridden a mtn bike before. So, I have to be patient when introducing new trails.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*A Revelation*

"why did you convince me to attempt that log crossing? Now I'm covered in bruises and my coworkers will think you beat me!"

Our society doesn't allow us to beat our women anymore so now we take them mountain biking!

Why didnt' I think of that before?


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

Berkeley Mike said:


> Breath very deep very often. This is a very complicated and convoluted task.


I was thinking more along the lines of hard liquor in the camelbak, but that could work too. 



> First off, you have a relationship to complicate things. Being an authority on the trail is all tangled up with authority in your relationship. The fact is you are the riding authority but will have to deal with the fallout in the realtionship after the ride. Your authority stops at the trail. Choose your battles.


I could teach my buddy's gf to ride and he could teach mine. This way I don't have to deal with the fallout afterward!



> Good luck.


Thanks. 



Impy said:


> If she crashes, or does something "wrong", don't automatically tell her what she did. Let her vent. When she is feeling better and happy, ask her if she knows what she did wrong. It is more instructive for someone to figure it out for yourself than to have someone "telling" you whats is "wrong" with you.


Actually I didn't tell her what she did wrong in either case. I just comforted her after the crash. The first time it actually got dark as I was waiting for her to recover, but I didn't rush her. Good thing I had my little backup flashlight.

The second time she blamed me for stopping too fast. I said she needs to look further ahead so she could stop in time. She said, "No, you stopped too fast." I said, "Whatever, it doesn't really matter." Bad move. She started crying and said I was being mean.  I obviously have a lot to learn! :skep:

But she pretty much figured out her issues on her own. A couple hours after the second crash she said "You know, the reason I crashed both times was because I used too much front brake. So I guess it's both our fault and not just yours." Uh, ok, I guess that's better than all my fault.   But yeah, I was actually pretty proud that she figured out what she had done wrong.



> Annadel has lots of stuff she could ride, and practice on, including lots of fireroad. I don't think it should be written off. But if you go with her, you aren't going to be doing your usual loops, at least not for a while.


Well, we started off doing just the Spring Lake paved loop and she quickly said that was too boring. And there are lots of walkers there too; once even some moron on a rigid bike with no helmet blasted down a hill and almost creamed me, I was only doing 5 mph. I see why bikers get a bad name there; luckily I don't see those kind on the trails at Annadel.

We've been riding on Canyon up to the lake but it does have a lot of rocks. I think I'll try Richardson with her next time as she might be able to handle the steepness of that one now.

Also I think the suggestion of finding some place to practice is good. Like at a park or somewhere with some soft grass to land on.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

what is her learning style? Something like the new Brian Lopes book might be a good one for her if she like to learn like that. For me, understanding the "why" really helps. You might explain that the front brake is 60-70% of your brake power, teach her about feathering, modulation, and one finger braking and this will give her much more control over her bike.


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

presslab said:


> I obviously have a lot to learn! :skep:


None of the men who come to this board asking this question really want to hear this, but a lot of the time there's really nothing you can do to improve your GF's riding skills, her enjoyment of riding, etc. Even more unfortunately, there are a lot of things you can do to make it worse.

I have been there--my BF (now husband--there is hope!) taught me to ride. Or, rather, he learned how to be supportive and encouraging through the *years* of frustration and tears, and to let me find my own place in the world of mtb, and we eventually reached a point where I was good enough and comfortable enough to start asking for specific technique advice and for him to actually help teach me. It must have been very difficult for him, but we made it through, and now we have a blast riding together.

I think one of the things that often goes wrong is that men tend to jump into "solution mode" when they see their SO's having trouble with something. That is, they're quick to suggest a solution to the perceived problem, when what their women want is empathy and a safe place to vent. Buying armor after being told she doesn't want it, pushing a camp, re-iterating the front brake issue for the umpteenth time--all of these "solutions" may not be what she is looking for, and she may feel misunderstood (even if she can't put her finger on the problem) and react accordingly. Sometimes a hug and a compliment are much better tactics.

I am not saying that's what you are doing specifically, but it's something to think about.

Finally, as others have mentioned, the SO dynamic is a very difficult one for teaching/learning, so don't ever forget that fact as you get frustrated along the way! Others have been in your shoes, and occasionally some couples even make it out to the other side. :thumbsup:


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## Mdm. Dabalot (Mar 16, 2006)

I think you have been given some really good advice (and some funny stuff). My two cents is to ride in front of her on a single track at a comfortable pace for her. Always take the easiest line over an obstacle and remember that everything is an obstacle to her at this point. She will be encouraged to follow you and it will give her courage.

That said, I didn't really get much better at technical stuff until I rode with other women. Why? Mostly because I arrived at a technical section by myself - the guys were way up the trail so I didn't have anyone to copy. And because I didn't believe I could do something just because my boyfriend did but seeing another woman clean a section gave me more confidence. What can I say - I grew up with three sisters and an nonathletic father. Great times but no early skills development!

Good luck! Help her find a women's group to learn with. We have a few good ones in So Cal - there must be some up there.


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## racergurl (Apr 19, 2004)

First of all, good luck with this situation, presslab!

I remember giving my husband a bit of a hard time when we would hit the trails together. To this day, he still tries to give me advice about clearing some obstacles, which I just ignore. I just tell him to get his slow a$$ out of the way so that I can get some speed up to let momentum get me up and over most things.

Armor sounds like a good idea. Don't see why your GF doesn't want to wear it? I'm just to cheap to buy it. And I might get too daring wearing it!

As for her wanting you to always lead, maybe she is just afraid of farting in your face.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Mdm. Dabalot said:


> That said, I didn't really get much better at technical stuff until I rode with other women. Why? Mostly because I arrived at a technical section by myself - the guys were way up the trail so I didn't have anyone to copy. And because I didn't believe I could do something just because my boyfriend did but seeing another woman clean a section gave me more confidence. What can I say - I grew up with three sisters and an nonathletic father. Great times but no early skills development!
> 
> Good luck! Help her find a women's group to learn with. We have a few good ones in So Cal - there must be some up there.


When I started I was almost always just riding with guys. So I learned plenty, but I can certainly relate to a couple things:

1. If I'm following my husband and he bobbles over something or stops - it instantly makes me not want to ride it. That "whoa, if it scared him, it's going to kill me". To the point where if he bobbles/wrecks in something I've ridden a dozen times before I have to be mentally yelling at myself to do it even though obviously I can.

2. You get into this mindset, especially as a newbie, that the experienced guys are just not even human. They sail over gaps, cruise through rock gardens, whatever. And "follow my line" may as well be "just flap your arms and fly over it". It's outside the realm of what you grasp as reality. But then I'd ride with people closer to my own ability level, and THEN I'd get into that - hey, if they can do it, I can do it. So get her into a group ride for beginners, or a womens group, or a clinic or something like that for at least some of her riding if you can. I think ideally, you want to alternate between riding with people better than you and around the same level as you so you can get the best of both worlds.

3. Being in front of better riders feels like you are asking to be judged. And unless I'm in the mood to ask for constructive criticism (yes, that does happen), that's probably the last thing I need from my spouse out of the blue. Remember that it's not like she doesn't KNOW what she's doing wrong much of the time - she just hasn't learned to do it correctly as a habit yet. I'm sure there are things you're working on in your riding where you internally yell at yourself to brake less or look farther around a corner or get the bike more level in the air... whatever. It's not like you need someone else telling you to do those things- you've already got a voice in your head going "get off the brakes!"

Not to mention - there are only so many things you can think of at once to work on. So maybe, MAYBE, if she's okay with it - ask if she wants you to offer advice and if she'd like just a concept to work on explained before the ride, or if she wants feedback during the ride or whatever. And if she doesn't want it - keep your mouth shut. She wants to ride with you and have fun with you, not get a lecture from you or have you boss her around. Trust me, we all understand that you're just trying to help - but often the best way to help is to just be there, dust her off, give her a hug and cheer her on.


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## cyberdivachick (Jan 30, 2007)

Ditto.................Ditto.......................Ditto......................Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't have said it better!


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Somtimes people are just into their riding*

and not into instruction. Instruction can become intrusive even if a person is in a place where they need to learn.


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## Blister Butt (Jul 20, 2005)

*Here's the reverse!*

So this is maybe funny, but my girlfriend taught me how to ride a bike. She had been riding for years and years and I had never really ridden.

All the comments about not wanting the better person behind you are so true. It also was maddening to have to learn from her because we spent all our other time together, and the last thing I wanted after a ride was to relive all the frustration over and over again with "tips" and "suggestions."

After I got the basics, I started riding a lot by myself, which was maddening in itself, because she MADE me carry my cell phone (bless her heart, she really was worried about me) and then she'd call me about every seven minutes when I was out riding to make sure I wasn't dead. Usually the phone rang right in the middle of the really gnarly technical sections.

After months of these alone rides, I got enough confidence to start going out riding with other people. Only on rare occasions would my girlfriend come along. We would try to do one good ride together a month.

About three years later, we now ride together all the time and we have great fun.

I guess the trick was learning at my own pace and staying within my own comfort zone without having to have my significant other there all the time to "judge" my skills and constantly worry about me hurting myself ('cause you know that's ultimately what ends up jinxing you and causing you to wreck anyway, right?).

Maybe that's all your girlfriend wants. Hang in there. In a few years I bet you two will be major riding buddies. It just takes a little time probably. Teaching grownups to do things is a lot more difficult than teaching kids to do them. We grownups have way too much ego invested in our learning styles, and that's neither good nor bad, it just is what it is.

--Rev. B. Butt


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## curry (Oct 14, 2007)

I've only really been riding this year, and my hubby doesn't understand why I am particular about where I want to lead. The main thing for me is, if it's climbing or fairly technical or too "tough" a descent, I feel pressured when he's behind me. Even if he holds back. If it's somewhere I'm really comfortable, even unknown but not too technical, I'm happy to lead (as long as I can't get lost!  ).
As far as the fire roads go, I know I always enjoyed riding side-by-side when I was starting out. That way he didn't get too far ahead, and I didn't have to lead to set the pace. I had a lot more fun that way in the beginning.
Oh, and casual women-only rides made a HUGE difference for me!


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## MrCrash (Apr 29, 2004)

formica said:


> what is her learning style? Something like the new Brian Lopes book might be a good one for her if she like to learn like that. For me, understanding the "why" really helps. You might explain that the front brake is 60-70% of your brake power, teach her about feathering, modulation, and one finger braking and this will give her much more control over her bike.


My girlfriend really likes the Brian Lopes / Lee McCormack book I picked up for her! After starting on tame doubletrack and fire roads, we moved on to gentle singletrack. Now, she hitting bike shops on her lunch breaks test riding machines, combing through classifieds in search of "the bike" 

Buying her unrestrictive knee guards helped. I have several friends who started with these:

http://www.cyclegear.com/lpgm.cfm?L1=6&L2=96&L3=&L4=&item=FOX_08011-017-000

I'm not sure if this applies for most beginning mountain bikers, but in my experience as a motorcycle roadracing instructor, students like to follow and see how things are done. They like to watch lines, and how I make things happen on my bike, and attempt to emulate it. If the instructors are behind the students, they're forced to make decisions they're not comfortable with yet.

I try to alternate, spending some time behind as well so I can watch and provide constructive criticism. As others have said, it can be tricky position for a significant other - a formal clinic may work well if that's the case.


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## MrCrash (Apr 29, 2004)

presslab said:


> Man, I wish there was nice flowing singletrack here! At Annadel it's mostly rocks, she'd be walking pretty much the whole trail. And it's steep. Don't get me wrong, I love the rocks but it's too technical for her right now. Maybe I can think of somewhere to go.


Maybe China Camp down in San Rafael? I've been using the Shoreline Trail there as an introduction to singletrack. Arastradero State Preserve down on the peninsula near Stanford has worked well for that also.

Once my girlfriend gets her new bike, I think we'll be headed to Annadel!


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## Bluebug32 (Jan 13, 2006)

Does she really want to mountain bike, or is she just doing it for you?

I agree about backing off a bit and letting her discover things on her own or with other women. Sometimes the worst thing is to ride with some who's so much better than you. If she's getting frustrated, your tips won't gel anyway.


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## brg (Sep 7, 2004)

*relationship dynamics*

I had an ex-boyfriend I played pool with and our dynamics were terrible - I'd totally shut down and act like a brat if he tried to give me pointers. he couldn't tell me anything.

So I was surprised on how well it worked when my BF taught me how to ride technical terrain.

Now, I don't think I'm an easy person to teach - I'm proud, stubborn and sometimes don't take well to people telling me how to do things. I'm very independent and like to do things on my own. However, he has a great way about him that makes you feel empowered and you have the ability to accomplish anything - even when you yourself are doubtful.

He's humble, talented, kind, patient, supportive and encouraging - striking the fine balance of me finding my own way and him guiding the way.

He never made me feel like a chicken (even tho I was). He never made me feel like I *had* to try an obstacle even tho he thought I could do it. He was patient and let me try to ride something for as long as I wanted to. He never rushed me. He did whatever he could to make me feel safe.

We would spend a couple of hours working on steep descending switchbacks and scary rock gardens. He would ride a problem section for me slowly to demostrate the right body position. Then he'd draw 'the line' in the dirt so I could follow that line.

On tight switchback - he'd watch me and tell me when to turn and when to look down the trail and when to let go of my front brake. It was nice because didn't have to think too much. On one switchback we must've done this 20(!) times before I got it.

Our conversation would go like this...
me stopping in the middle of the turn: "i can't to it - it's too scary!"
BF: "it *is* scary...but you can do it"
me stopping in the middle of the turn: "I can't turn - it's too sharp"
BF: "yes - it is a sharp turn - but just turn your head and let the bike roll"
me stopping in the middle of the turn: "there's a big cliff - if I fall I hurt myself"
BF: "i'll stand there on the edge of the cliff and catch you if you fall - that way you can fall on me."
me stopping in the middle of the turn: "NO!!!"
BF: "when you are ready - you'll do it. do you want to keep trying?"
me: "yes"
BF: "ok - i'll do this as long as you want"
me: "aren't you bored just standing there?"
BF: "no - you are making progress and it's fun to watch you getting there"
me stopping in the middle of the turn: "I'm gonna fall and hurt myself"
BF: "you might - but that's part of it. I came back bloody on every ride i did my first year"
me-*actually *making the turn: "whoa! no way that was miracle"
dave - cheering for my when I finally did it: "way to go. I knew you could do it!!! yay!"

Now typically I don't like that much hand holding but for whatever reason this really worked for me. There is a set of steep, tight switchbacks on a local trail that I silently thank him everytime I swoop cleanly through them.


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## Bluebug32 (Jan 13, 2006)

The dynamics are definitely strange when you're dating and trying to learn something from one another. I'm relatively tough on the trail, but when my BF tried to teach me how to drive stick, within 10 minutes I was crying!


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

Ok, ok, I know some of you hate these kind of threads, and for that I'm sorry. You all have great suggestions and I really appreciate the feedback, both male and female.

I'd also like to mention that my GF is the one who asked to go biking with me in the first place. I'm sure a lot of guys force stuff on their GF and I get the feeling that some of you have experienced this, but I swear I just want her to have a good time and not get hurt.

She's decided to do a clinic with my buddy's GF who is also a beginner so that will be great I think!

Anyways, in conclusion, thanks again!


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

presslab said:


> I'd also like to mention that my GF is the one who asked to go biking with me in the first place. I'm sure a lot of guys force stuff on their GF and I get the feeling that some of you have experienced this, but I swear I just want her to have a good time and not get hurt.
> 
> She's decided to do a clinic with my buddy's GF who is also a beginner so that will be great I think!
> 
> Anyways, in conclusion, thanks again!




Let us know how things turn out - this could be the start of a new WL member!!! Send her our way. I bet she has a great time at the clinic.


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## stingray_coach (Jun 27, 2006)

racergurl said:


> First of all, good luck with this situation, presslab!
> 
> I remember giving my husband a bit of a hard time when we would hit the trails together. To this day, he still tries to give me advice about clearing some obstacles, which I just ignore. I just tell him to get his slow a$$ out of the way so that I can get some speed up to let momentum get me up and over most things.
> 
> ...


lol


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

i don't have much to offer for a lot of what you are dealing with but i can give you my perspective about why she might not want you to ride behind her. when i was new to mtb'ing i knew that i was prone to sudden stops and wanted to go at my own pace. hearing someone behind me made me nervous that they would buzz my wheel or, worse, slam right into me if i stopped suddenly. 

i've been riding for 10 years now and i still prefer to ride sweep when riding unfamiliar trails.

or, your girlfriend might think her butt looks bad when she's riding and doesn't want you to notice. hehe  (just kidding)

rt


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Quote from another thread 

As much as I like to be tough and doing as much as I can on my own, I kinda like it when my guy is all manly and takes my bike for me or pumps up my tire when I get a flat. Kind of a nice shmoooopy feeling. 

I can only assume that schnoooopy is a good feeling.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

"or, your girlfriend might think her [butt looks bad] when she's riding and doesn't want you to notice."

This is, by definition, simply impossible.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

*rt* said:


> or, your girlfriend might think her butt looks bad when she's riding and doesn't want you to notice. hehe  (just kidding)


HAHA! 

I asked her again why she wants me to ride in front and she said, "With you behind you are looking at my ass and I'd much rather you go in front so I can look as YOUR ass."

And she didn't want to hold me up, etc. So yesterday we went for another ride. I rode in front looking back every thirty seconds or so, just to keep the distance not too close and not too far. Well other than being annoying looking back so much it worked out fine. I went slower for the tough parts so she could follow my line.

She didn't want to wear the pads because she said she'd look like a noob. Okay, I can understand that, but she is a noob, and it's pretty obvious.  And hardcore Whistler dudes wear them too I said but that didn't convince her.

It was a great ride though! No crashes, although a couple were a near miss. She said she hit a loose rock and almost instinctually grabbed a handful of both brakes but then she thought for a minute about it and then only grabbed the rear brake. Yay!

She talked about the clinic again and how it would be good for her. :thumbsup:


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Berkeley Mike said:


> "or, your girlfriend might think her [butt looks bad] when she's riding and doesn't want you to notice."
> 
> This is, by definition, simply impossible.


Mike, you have just proven once and for all that you are from Planet Male once and for all.
Some women really do think that way.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*The ability to look back and check your ride mates*

is a definite skill cultivated by ride leaders. The best do it and you don't even know it. They peak a bit, listen, measure their pace. Leading a ride and riding for yourself are two very different things. One is an act of giving.


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## Catherine (Jan 28, 2006)

I love it when my husband wears lycra, because I almost always ride behind him, and the scenery is FINE.
I taught him how to whitewater kayak. He took a scuba diving class with me as a refresher, after diving for 9 years; so that we could dive together. I got him into mtb. He took over. He's a studier, watcher of dvd's and reader of articles. He is a little too into doing things "the right way" and reminds me of what I have done wrong (for the hundredth time) more often than I wish he would. BUT, he is tireless in his determination to help me have fun and learn safely. Maybe we have gotten too dependent on each other, but there is almost nothing we would rather do alone. When I ride, boat, scuba dive or ride my off-road motorbike, he's the one that I want watching. It makes everything that much richer, to share it with him.
Tell her to try wearing pads. Since I started wearing mine, I have gotten no scratches, cuts, bruises or even wrecked. I used to fall over 2 or 3 times per ride. I sliced my right calf open with my chainring--about 6 inches long. Now that I'm wearing elbow and knee/shin guards, I feel SO much more relaxed and I have a LOT more fun.


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## teef (May 23, 2007)

I have to admit I won't ride in front of my boyfriend unless he is trying to help me figure out what I am doing wrong...though that would be most of the time now I ride enough that I can select the "thing" I want him to critique me on. I hate riding in front of him otherwise, because I feel like I slow him down and then that messes up his ride. I like to watch what he does and learn something too...view is not bad for me either. As for the padding. When I first started, I was constantly smashing my shins on my pedals and it was just annoying more than the worry about bruising or anything. We found the RockGarden pink knee and shin guards and I was thrilled. Riding became more fun, less painful, and everyone can spot me on the mountain...including the helicopters in case of a rescue or something;-). I just bought elbow guards and hate riding with all the armor but it definitely builds confidence when trying new trails so I figure why not. Be patient with your girlfriend as sometimes it just might take one awesome ride for her to find her niche!


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## badjenny (Mar 13, 2006)

jeffscott said:


> Quote from another thread
> 
> As much as I like to be tough and doing as much as I can on my own, I kinda like it when my guy is all manly and takes my bike for me or pumps up my tire when I get a flat. Kind of a nice shmoooopy feeling.
> 
> I can only assume that schnoooopy is a good feeling.


 *shmoopy *

Having or showing fond feelings or affection; loving and tender. Excessively sentimental. 
Given to or displaying mawkish affection or amorousness.

All over, attached, caring, crazy about, crazy for, crazy over, dear, devoted, doting, fond, friendly, huggy, kind, lovey-dovey, loving, mushy, nutty about, partial, soft on, tender, warm, warm-hearted


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

jeffscott said:


> I can only assume that schnoooopy is a good feeling.


Not, schnooopy, schmooopy!

Here's Snoopy (being schmoopy)


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