# Kid bike weights -- Precaliber vs Hidden Canyon vs Hotrock?



## tpetty (Jun 6, 2009)

Sorry for yet another "what should I get thread." I need to buy a new bike for my 6 year old -- he has outgrown his 16" BMX style Wal-Mart bike, and I'm planning on getting a brand name 20" mountain bike. 

I assume that in the $300 range, the brands are quite similar. I'm considering the Gary Fisher Precaliber, Marin Hidden Canyon, and Specialized Hotrock. All have 50mm front suspension (which I don't really care about at this age), aluminum frames, and 6-7 speeds.

The thing I can't determine from the web sites is bike weight. If the bikes are otherwise similar, might as well get a light one. Should any of these three choices be excluded due to being significantly heavier than the others? I've read some complaints about weight on the Hotrock -- but without knowing actual weights, I don't know if it's really significantly different.

Thanks!


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## mulletbike (May 21, 2005)

*Check out Haro*

Look for a Haro Flightline 20. This is by far the best 20" kids mtb we sell. We also sell Trek and Fisher, but the Haro is lighter and better bike, weight wise you are looking in the 23lb range give or take a few lbs. When my 6 year old daughter finally gives up riding her 20" juvenile bike I will get her the Haro. Good luck!


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## rivrmutt (Mar 14, 2006)

*precaliber SS....*

is 19 lbs. My 7 yr old loves it and I can plainly see the difference in his riding. His 16" bike probably weighted close to 26 lbs.


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## CrampAndGoSlow (May 2, 2009)

Another vote here for the precaliber SS. IMO that age group doesn't need the complication of gears to detract from the fun/ freedom of riding. My seven year old loves his. The only thing I would change is actually a slightly lower gear, stock is 32/18 and could really go 32/20. It's not about actual speed, but perceived speed!


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## tpetty (Jun 6, 2009)

I ended up getting a Trek, since they didn't even have any kids Gary Fishers or other brands of kids bikes at the two stores I went to.

Good so far. Seems light enough -- but I couldn't directly compare to anything.


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## Stacy123 (Jul 9, 2008)

I've heard from our bike shop who sells both Specialized and Haro...that the Specialized is definately lighter, albeit slightly I am sure.

My 7 year old gil has a Specialized Hot Rock. It works great for her, she handles the downhills on the XC trail great with it. The shocks actually come in handy, and the gears shift great. She has noticed that 6 gears isn't enough, and it turns the kids into strong little riders. My son who is 9 just upgraded to a full size Specialized Stump Jumper...never thought the day would come!

Good luck on whatever you choose, the Marins look great too!:thumbsup:


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

tpetty said:


> I ended up getting a Trek, since they didn't even have any kids Gary Fishers or other brands of kids bikes at the two stores I went to.
> 
> Good so far. Seems light enough -- but I couldn't directly compare to anything.


The Trek should be a nice bike, though the Trek dealer could probably order a Gary Fisher since Trek owns Fisher. I bought my 6 year old son the Precaliber SS - 19.9 lbs, about as lightweight as you can get for a kids mountain bike. most 6 year olds don't really need gears or the useless suspension, but they look good to us adults who purchase them.


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

Our son has the Specialized and a few of our friends do, too. One family has had, and raced, theirs for 3 kids. Anyway, it's light, the suspension for WORKS and it's very well built. My only quibble is that the grip shift requires too much hand strength for the left side/front derailleur. I had some cut-down carbon bars after a bar-end incident, swapped those for the aluminum OEM and the bike is 22lb.


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## Harrier (May 5, 2008)

My son has the Marin Hidden Canyon and it is really a great bike. I swapped out the shifters for triggers and he is much happier.

His friends have Hot Rocks and hate them. Incredibly bad components. Hopefully we can redeem them with replacements!


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

The hot rocks were a lot nicer 3 years ago than they are today. 
FWIW you can make them a good bit lighter by swapping out bars and posts and removing kickstands etc.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

It is sad how much these kids' bikes weigh. I got my son a used Hidden Canyon which seems like a decent frame except for the tallish standover.

It started out weighing 24lbs stock and with some trimming and parts swapping it's now 18lbs and much more managable for the little guy. Fork was modified, new wheels built, mod'ed seatpost, light seat, light bars, derailleurs, cassette, shortened XT cranks, etc. It's now a 1x9 with a 28t front chainring and an 11-34 9 speed cassette.

For riding real trails with climbs and rocks I would have to disagree with some of the others that say gears and suspension are not needed. He couldn't do our rides with a single speed. For street/neighborhood riding, I would agree though - gears are a waste.. The gearing he's got now is enough to give him a good cadence from a 3mph climb up to about 16-17 mph which is as fast as he needs to be going right now. The gearing is really nice and the XTR rapid fire shifters are easily utilized by his little hands.


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

That's a sweet ride FB!
You really went all out.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

lucifer said:


> That's a sweet ride FB!
> You really went all out.


thanks. yeah, a lot of time went into it and I had fun, but it's sad when they grow out of it. Luckily he's got a younger brother to step into this one in the future. I've already got a 24" Kona to be mod'ed for his next bike. It's maybe a year out before he'll fit it.

Given your vintage background, I thought you might like that build. It's got some Ringle, Suntour XC Pro, White Industries, Ritchey WCS bars, M730 cranks, Specialized ti BB, etc.

Most of the parts were just laying around in the parts bin. I think all I had to round up parts-wise were the hubs. He likes it.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

That Precaliber SS seems like a great bike. Aluminum frame, SS and no fake suspension fork. Keep it simple. Love the fact it has fatter tires as opposed to the dedicated race bmx bike.

As mentioned, if you are actually venturing out onto technical single track, then I can see wanting someting that resembles the geared and suspended mountain bikes we might ride.

But at the same time, an SS bike that's geared properly should get the kids through where-ever they need to go. Several rides is all it took for my 6y/o to hit hills that he normally had to walk up. As he gets stronger, I'll take him to slightly harder rides.

I've heard the Spec bikes are also aluminum and can be made light.

I've got my wife's 13.5" Rockhopper that I'll turn into a nice trail bike once Ryan is tall enough. Might be several years though.


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> thanks. yeah, a lot of time went into it and I had fun, but it's sad when they grow out of it. Luckily he's got a younger brother to step into this one in the future. I've already got a 24" Kona to be mod'ed for his next bike. It's maybe a year out before he'll fit it.
> 
> Given your vintage background, I thought you might like that build. It's got some Ringle, Suntour XC Pro, White Industries, Ritchey WCS bars, M730 cranks, Specialized ti BB, etc.
> 
> Most of the parts were just laying around in the parts bin. I think all I had to round up parts-wise were the hubs. He likes it.


Remind me to post pics of my daughters buck shaver.


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## CT-CT-CT (Sep 28, 2009)

Fillet-brazed said:


> It is sad how much these kids' bikes weigh. I got my son a used Hidden Canyon which seems like a decent frame except for the tallish standover.
> 
> It started out weighing 24lbs stock and with some trimming and parts swapping it's now 18lbs and much more managable for the little guy. Fork was modified, new wheels built, mod'ed seatpost, light seat, light bars, derailleurs, cassette, shortened XT cranks, etc. It's now a 1x9 with a 28t front chainring and an 11-34 9 speed cassette.
> 
> For riding real trails with climbs and rocks I would have to disagree with some of the others that say gears and suspension are not needed. He couldn't do our rides with a single speed. For street/neighborhood riding, I would agree though - gears are a waste.. The gearing he's got now is enough to give him a good cadence from a 3mph climb up to about 16-17 mph which is as fast as he needs to be going right now. The gearing is really nice and the XTR rapid fire shifters are easily utilized by his little hands.


Thats pretty remarkable shaving six lbs off the bike . . . . My 8 yr old has a 20" 2005ish Specialized Hotrock 6 spd that I picked up used for $160.00. His stepsister has a 24" 2005ish Hotrock we picked up used for about $125.00 Both bikes feel pretty heavy . . . he has trouble getting the 20" up hills. I would like to make his bike a bit lighter, but the only thing I can do with my limited knowledge and budget is remove the kickstand, and that creates a storage problem!

On a side note, this is his first real bike, his last ride being a 16" Magna BMX style bike that was $40.00 brand new. That bike had a coaster brake and a front hand brake. The cheap hand brake required a fair amount of pressure to engage, and the lever was so far from the grip, it was unusable. The Tektro junior levers are easy to pull and usable, and the Shimano RS-41 Revo shifter is easy to learn. As a beginner, he often is in the wrong gear, and has difficulty planning the shifts. A six or seven speed drive train combined with front AND rear brake levers is a steep enough learning curve - a triple front setup is probably too difficult for most little ones.


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

CT-CT-CT said:


> Thats pretty remarkable shaving six lbs off the bike . . . . My 8 yr old has a 20" 2005ish Specialized Hotrock 6 spd that I picked up used for $160.00. His stepsister has a 24" 2005ish Hotrock we picked up used for about $125.00 Both bikes feel pretty heavy . . . he has trouble getting the 20" up hills. I would like to make his bike a bit lighter, but the only thing I can do with my limited knowledge and budget is remove the kickstand, and that creates a storage problem!
> 
> On a side note, this is his first real bike, his last ride being a 16" Magna BMX style bike that was $40.00 brand new. That bike had a coaster brake and a front hand brake. The cheap hand brake required a fair amount of pressure to engage, and the lever was so far from the grip, it was unusable. The Tektro junior levers are easy to pull and usable, and the Shimano RS-41 Revo shifter is easy to learn. As a beginner, he often is in the wrong gear, and has difficulty planning the shifts. A six or seven speed drive train combined with front AND rear brake levers is a steep enough learning curve - a triple front setup is probably too difficult for most little ones.


My daughter had a 20" hotrock before I built her buck shaver. You wouldn't believe how much lighter a $5 pair of new ebay special alloy flatbars were compared to the steel risers that were on there to start with. The same logic could be applied to the saddle and seatpost. not much money need be spent to make it a good bit lighter. And if its going to be ridden on trails you might as well plan on losing the kickstand. IMHO kickstands are a safety hazard on any kind of real mtb ride.


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## Rockhopperkid (Oct 11, 2009)

Im 12 and i ride a 15 inch 05 rockhopper comp. It weighs about 25-26 lb. but i also ride a 26 lb ss bmx and i get up hills a lot more efficiently and my peddling is a lot stronger now. I would suggest a rigid fork because i can feel that i am losing a lot of efficiency to the suspension.


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## Harrier (May 5, 2008)

I cannot disagree more with the crowd that says no gears. Sure, if you are trail riding, go single speed. 

But I have a small mountain bike club for young kids (1-4th graders). Some kids love it, some quit. Two factors matter from my perspective - 1) Crap bikes from non-brands are too heavy and poorly built. The kids get frustrated and quit. 2) Not having a decent range, including front and rear gears, makes it really challenging to get the kids to do any climbing.

My son started riding up Mt. Tam at 7 on a Marin Hidden Canyon. Within four months I had replaced the double chainring with a triple from an old Trek. He crushes the mountain. The kids that just try to grind up out of their seat rarely make it far up the hill.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Well, this one no longer fits my son. PM me if anyone is interested. It's mostly dismantled at this point, but I do have the wheels which are very light. Rear hub is a White Industries (135mm, 8 or 9 speed) and front is an American Classic Micro.

Oh, and I have 150mm, square taper cranks, too.


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## indianadave (Apr 27, 2010)

I also can't agree on the statement "kids at this age don't need gears"
My 5 eyar old daughter has an older Hotrock 6 speed, and I can't imagine hre trying to climb some of the hills on our local trails without the gears. She figured them out pretty quickly too, and has gotten to where she shifts before getting to the hill now. In fact, I'm looking into swapping to a 1x8 or 1x9 from her 6 speeds before next spring.
Whatever you get, kids don't really care. As long as it's good enough quality and adjusted properly, they'll have fun riding


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

indianadave said:


> I also can't agree on the statement "kids at this age don't need gears"
> My 5 eyar old daughter has an older Hotrock 6 speed, and I can't imagine hre trying to climb some of the hills on our local trails without the gears. She figured them out pretty quickly too, and has gotten to where she shifts before getting to the hill now. In fact, I'm looking into swapping to a 1x8 or 1x9 from her 6 speeds before next spring.
> Whatever you get, kids don't really care. As long as it's good enough quality and adjusted properly, they'll have fun riding


A 1x9 works great if you can get an 11-34 or even better an 11-36. That's a pretty wide speed range that that will cover.

I finally got my son on a 2x9 at 8. He's a fairly good bike handler so he can handle the higher speeds that a 2x9 will offer.


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## joe_bloe (Nov 18, 2010)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Well, this one no longer fits my son. PM me if anyone is interested. It's mostly dismantled at this point, but I do have the wheels which are very light. Rear hub is a White Industries (135mm, 8 or 9 speed) and front is an American Classic Micro.
> 
> Oh, and I have 150mm, square taper cranks, too.


PM sent.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Some better pics of the frame and fork. Got this down to 18lbs as shown. A great little bike if anyone is interested.


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## flipwils11 (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi, I can't send pm's, but found this thread via google. I'm interested in the custom kids bike you built if it's still available. I'm at adw256 by way of gmail. thanks!


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## flip998 (Sep 27, 2010)

Just wondering if the bike is still available. Thanks!


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Marin Hidden Canyon Reworked*



Fillet-brazed said:


> Some better pics of the frame and fork. Got this down to 18lbs as shown. A great little bike if anyone is interested.


Thanks for the hook-up FB :thumbsup:

Seat and pedals are just place holders.
16 pounds. It weighs less than the slightly modded 16" Hotrock it replaced.

Here's how it looks now:


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## rpfleger (May 15, 2010)

Sorry to ressurect an old thread but what fork is that and where did you get it? How do you like the 1x9 and the setup overall. I am about to get something for my soon to be 8 year old. He has had an old 20" BMX with coaster brakes that weighs about 30# that he has been reluctant to ride (I can understand why). I have a few parts lying around that I can upgrade with, but most of the suspension forks I have seen on the 20" bikes are pretty horrible.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

The fork is a Redline R6, 500grams.
You can get them through most BMX places (Dan's, etc) or eBay.

The single ring drivetrain has been great so far. Its simple for him and has plenty of gear spread.


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## b3ksmith (Sep 18, 2005)

That is a really cool bike! I remember my kids first 2 wheelers weighed a ton. I spent a bit of time changing out parts and hacking...not as much as you though. Great job Dad.


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## Rondo (Oct 14, 2011)

What hub is that? An old Chair hub?


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

Older American Classic Micro front and White Industries rear


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## Rondo (Oct 14, 2011)

I like it! Never seen a 16h hub before. I wonder if it is possible to lace up a 32h wheel with only 16 spokes and just use every other hole?


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

Hey Rondo,
That's what has been done here.


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## Rondo (Oct 14, 2011)

Oh that's great!

I see the hubs now online. Looks like they're roadie hubs.

Great idea! :thumbsup:


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## fiveforty (Dec 7, 2014)

I have two 20" Gary Fisher Precaliber SS bikes for sale. One os yellow (gold) and the other is fuchsia (pink). Both stock and in great shape. I paid $300 each brand new and I'm asking $150 each, gently used. I have pics if you'd like to contact me directly at mtbr at five forty dot com.


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