# Total Disaster



## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

A few days ago I find out that there are a network of actual Mountain Bike trails at our local zoo(Thompson Park) in New York. I head up there with a crappy map that I couldn't follow with all the trail heads listed. I finally find a start point and head down it. So far it was nice with some rock jumps and I got cruising pretty good. I went through a gravel pit to the other side and then things just blew up.

There was a hill that literally went straight down at an angle I knew my brakes couldn't take, so I walked it down. The trails got so bad with rocks, roots and turns that I couldn't even go 5 feet without getting off the bike before I fell off. I stood there thinking I had the wrong place and thinking no way in hell people ride bikes in this. Every stupid root or rock and my tires would slip....I couldn't get up hills without spinning to a stop and I was ate alive by skeeters.
After an hour in there I quit and got the hell out of there, my bike got beat up bad...nothing broken, but muddy and just plain bruised up.... I hit the pedals on rocks a ton of times.

Here's a few pics of the disastrous day.

Bike ready to come out and play.










Wheels on, ready to go










Entering hell










5 minutes in and already caked with crap and beat up.



















You've got to be kidding me..


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## OSOK (Jul 11, 2009)

You think that's bad?










Maybe it's above your skill level, but it seems like just a technical trail to me... Don't worry about your bike getting dirty and beat up, that's a fight you will NOT win.

You should ask around in local forums about that trial see if anyone rides it... then hook up with them!


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## ASpot13 (Apr 4, 2007)

Looks like a great trail to me.


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## Zoke2 (Nov 16, 2007)

I dont get it ... you say the bike is caked with crap and all I see is some mud on the tires and then in the last pic it just looks like a easy dirt path ... and if your tires are slipping so much try a lower psi in them ... oh and nice bike rack


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## Adam71 (Sep 6, 2009)

It won't seem as bad next time you hit it. Keep at it.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh it was above my skill level for sure, but I was expecting some fairly open trails that I didn't have to literally duck under fallen trees and pinch my foot between the pedals and sharp rocks that pierced out from the sides of the trails. I had to jump off like 50 times when a root would make the bike slide and I never got out of the lowest gear. I actually go tintimidated and scared, because on one side it was a steep drop-off and my bike is slipping all over the place.
I knew I would get hurt so I just quit....nothing like I was expecting....I was expecting like old railroad bed type trails, not having to creep in first gear and hold onto trees to keep from falling.

I think at 35 this type of riding isn't for me. I need more of an open trail.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Sounds like you do need a different trail now. 

I'm 47 and have been riding trails for 5 or 6 years. Your trails don't look bad to me, although it is hard to tell from photos how steep they really are. I still have recollections of trails that seemed way too hard for me. Now I just cannot remember what the difficulty was  There's still places where I lift the bike over a combination of rocks, or figure that I have a 50/50 chance of clearing something.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Zoke2 said:


> I dont get it ... you say the bike is caked with crap and all I see is some mud on the tires and then in the last pic it just looks like a easy dirt path ... and if your tires are slipping so much try a lower psi in them ... oh and nice bike rack


There was a fine mist of dirt water all over the frame, the front derailer had mud packed in it between it and the frame plus all the mud on the wheels. Under the seat was a mess too plus my ass got wet as hell.

I haven't invested in a bike rack yet. Soon though if I get the money to dump on it. Until then I do what I gotta do.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

You need to get that mud off the bike now. Oh, In many places it is frowned upon to ride trails that are wet and muddy. Don't know about your area.

The scratches on my bike and pedals are battle scars that are to be proudly displayed


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

The pics make the trails look nice and big lol...believe me....one of those shows a hill that is very steep....I knew my POS Tektro calipers would never hold up down it. So like a little girl I walked down lol.

I would pay 200 dollars to see someone actually ride this trail...they must be damn good at it!!


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

You really only need to keep the drivetrain and fork stanchions clean. The frame doesn't care if it's got crap all over it.

It looks like the kind of trail that's fine to ride wet. (IMHO, it's okay to ride wet trails if the surface is mainly organic stuff or there are a lot of rocks and roots. Trails with more of a silt or clay surface, that will set up into hardpack when dry, you should stay off of - they'll get ruined.) Get a set of fenders and call it good. Here in the PNW, they extend the riding season by about seven months.

Try running lower pressure in your tires. Don't worry about the pedals. The set I finally retired earlier this season, after ten years of service, have bevels taken out of the outside corners by rock strikes and putting them down on pavement in sharp turns when they were on a commuter.

Or get a road bike. The East Coast has beautiful riding of both types.

PS. Too bad I'm not still in NY. I might take you up on that $200.


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## 05kas05 (Mar 20, 2010)

*good looking trail*

sounds like you had a great day of riding mud,rocks,roots,scratches scrapes hell yeah thats a good day, only one way to make it better is the ice cold beer at the end.
i too am a newb at riding and i also get frustrated at times but when i get to the end of the trail i cant stop talking about how fun it was and how bad it kicked my but.then i do it all again the next time you will get used to it keep it up and remember its all a learning experience.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> You really only need to keep the drivetrain and fork stanchions clean. The frame doesn't care if it's got crap all over it.
> 
> It looks like the kind of trail that's fine to ride wet. (IMHO, it's okay to ride wet trails if the surface is mainly organic stuff or there are a lot of rocks and roots. Trails with more of a silt or clay surface, that will set up into hardpack when dry, you should stay off of - they'll get ruined.) Get a set of fenders and call it good. Here in the PNW, they extend the riding season by about seven months.
> 
> ...


This trail had many roots and shale rocks on it that were slippery(it had rained the night before) It was very tight and trying to make a turn without slipping was tough. I walked more than rode, mainly just to look around. The map I had mapped out intermediate trails, but I couldn't find them... I must of been in the advanced area...I hope that wasn't the intermediate area lol.

I like more of an open trail like old railroad beds... Usually I can get going pretty good on those. Yesterday was totally new and unexpected...I was like "no way in hell people ride a bike through this" And yes if you came here rode this trail I would give you 200 dollars plus a cold beer lol.

I heard there is a club that goes riding here every Thursday....I may have to go watch them do it... If I see it can actually be done, I may be more enthused about trying it again.


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## shillelagh (Jun 30, 2010)

It looks like some of the areas I ride down here in PA. You know what? They are hard for a beginner, and I walk my bike a lot when it gets past my skill level. But it gets better. A couple days ago I went down a trail that had me terrified at first; there's a rock-strewn hill at the beginning that felt like Everest.

A couple days ago, I stopped to let some hikers pass, and then climbed back on the bike and went down the "Everest" without it even registering that it was a hill... give yourself some time. I'm sure by the end of the summer the hills that scare me now will be nothing. 

Trail riding is hard, but there aren't cars on trails.


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## bclagge (Aug 31, 2009)

If your idea of the ideal trail is a old railroad bed, then you really don't know what you're getting into. Trails described as off road trails are often technical and dangerous, which is why they're fun. Maybe you're not ready for this kind of riding, or maybe it's just not for you. Try a couple other local trails on a drier day and see if you're into it. If not, try and find your local Rails To Trails and go buck wild. Only ride what you think is fun .

I would love to take you up on that $200 as well if only I lived a little closer.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

thats an awesome looking trail. i think you just need more saddle time to build your confidence. soon enough you'll be riding that trail laughing to yourself that at one point it seemed imposible.


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## vanamees (Oct 10, 2009)

You have wrong bike for old railroads - you need cyclocross.


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## sanjuro (Sep 29, 2004)

Your pictures may not reveal the softness of the trails, but if it was raining the night before, obviously that was not the place to ride.

I ride in the mostly dry Bay Area, but one time a section of trail had been rebuilt by earth movers. My wheels sunk into 3 inches of soft earth, and I had to walk it.

As for rocky, steep trails, technique and experience is the key.

For example, on a steep runout, I brake to a near standstill before the drop, then roll down without using much brake until it levels off, then reapply the brakes. 

My handling is better with the less brake I apply, so I try to roll sections where I can. Heavy braking affects your suspension, traction, and cornering, so use as little as possible on the technical parts.

With that said, sounds easy, hard to apply. That's where experience comes in. I used to crash on a 20 foot, 10 degree slope when I first started riding. 10 years later, I am hammering down mile long descents that look like dry stream beds.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

vanamees said:


> You have wrong bike for old railroads - you need cyclocross.


Hmmmm? You mean the wrong bike for those trails not railroad beds. My bike is awesome on the railroad beds....lots of fun going pretty fast and jumping a small root or splashing through a puddle once in a while. I have one here that is a nice shortcut and it's like 6 miles through the woods. Lots of fun there.

I just didn't expect trails to be as tite and treacherous as yesterday, but I'm sure the bike I have would be a lot better at it with the right rider.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

sanjuro said:


> As for rocky, steep trails, technique and experience is the key..


yes really lol.

All I could think was "the people who can ride a bike through this must be pretty damn good..
I can see the appeal of being able to do this and yes it's not for the faint of heart..I found out yesterday:madman:

I'll find some tamer trails and work up to the others.... I would like to say I can ride that sort of thing some day.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Eric2.0 said:


> yes really lol.
> 
> All I could think was "the people who can ride a bike through this must be pretty damn good..
> I can see the appeal of being able to do this and yes it's not for the faint of heart..I found out yesterday:madman:
> ...


Keep at it buddy and those trails will be rideable for you some day. Trust us. That $200? I'll pay that to see YOU ride it. 

Jeff


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## Bilirubin (Mar 6, 2010)

Eric2.0 said:


> The trails got so bad with rocks, roots and turns that I couldn't even go 5 feet without getting off the bike before I fell off.


You'd better postpone your plans for riding in Alberta for a few years then because that's pretty much a description of riding out here. The worst that trail looked was some overgrowth coming over the trail. The trail itself looked lovely.

Sorry you had such a rude shock, but stick with it. Hook up with some local riders who know the area and watch them.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Eric2.0 said:


> Hmmmm? You mean the wrong bike for those trails not railroad beds. My bike is awesome on the railroad beds....


Nono, my southern neighbor said "cyclocross":






Local trails ala cx from Andy Wardman on Vimeo.


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## BigSharks (Oct 4, 2009)

one of the many reasons not to ride in mud is that it'll fill the gaps between your tread and make gripping impossible. Go back and give that trail another shot when its dry. That pic of your caked tires makes me think that you'd have been just as well served out there on a road bike (heck, it would have been lighter).


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Zoke2 said:


> I dont get it ... you say the bike is caked with crap and all I see is some mud on the tires and then in the last pic it just looks like a easy dirt path ... and if your tires are slipping so much try a lower psi in them ... oh and nice bike rack


I was really hoping to see some sort of apology about the bike rack comment. Do you not ride if you don't have a $400 rack to put your bike on?


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Bilirubin said:


> Sorry you had such a rude shock, but stick with it. Hook up with some local riders who know the area and watch them.


+1 on this.

I am just starting to ride in an area I am not familiar with. It's loaded with rocks and I'm not used to it... it just takes time.


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## ndamico (Nov 8, 2009)

trail looks good to me bro. stick with it. things get better


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## scoutcat (Mar 30, 2008)

that trail didnt look too bad at all. u went mountain biking not path riding.


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## upNdown (Jan 12, 2004)

Eric2.0 said:


> I heard there is a club that goes riding here every Thursday....I may have to go watch them do it... If I see it can actually be done, I may be more enthused about trying it again.


Definitely do that. Sometimes the best way to succeed is to watch somebody else do it first. I remember the first time I took a mountain bike in the woods (I was probably about 25); I was shocked at some of the stuff i saw. Impossible to ride that stuff, I said. That's the sort of stuff I ride now without even thinking about it (and I'm no joe pro.) 
I think some of the best advice I got on that first ride was that it's amazing what a mountain bike can do. You have to learn to trust the bike. If you just stay on top of it, 9 times out of 10, everything will be fine.


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## JPinFL (Jun 6, 2010)

That trail looks like a lot of fun.

Keep up with the riding and you'll be flying down those trails before you know it.

If possible, always try to ride with someone, especially on trails that you're not familiar with. It's safer, and if the other rider has more experience, you can learn from watching him/her and getting advice right there on the spot.


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## mwayne5 (Apr 4, 2009)

looks like fun. You can either find some easier trails or you can ride it every day til you make it your b****. That's what I do. You learn fast too.


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## dhbomber (Nov 7, 2006)

perttime said:


> Nono, my southern neighbor said "cyclocross":
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was SICK!
Is that an Ibis?


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Imagine trying that with a backwards fork


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## bloodyknee (Jul 29, 2008)

Go ride the trail again when it's dry. Trails get easier as you go. When I first started riding, everything scared the crap out of me. Now I ride those same trails and they same really tame. You'll get there.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Bilirubin said:


> You'd better postpone your plans for riding in Alberta for a few years then because that's pretty much a description of riding out here. The worst that trail looked was some overgrowth coming over the trail. The trail itself looked lovely.
> 
> Sorry you had such a rude shock, but stick with it. Hook up with some local riders who know the area and watch them.


 Now that is a cool looking trail! That is something I could do and it doesn't have trees where I have to grab so I don't hit my bars on them.

I'l go back when it's dry. It was really muddy and the roots were soaked yesterday.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

Those pictures of those trails are awesome!


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## Kneescar (Feb 26, 2009)

Wet rocks and roots plus the fact that you ran over mud that caked onto your tires makes for a hard time, especially on a trail that seems like it's above your skill level. Add the fact that it was your first time out there and it's not surprising that you had a miserable time. Welcome to mountain biking.  

Go back when it's dry, preferably with someone else and see if it gets any easier. If you stick with it, you'll figure out that in time, that trail will seem like child's play. Trust me on this. 

You'll just have to get over your fear of tight singletrack. There's no way around that. Scraping the bars against the occasional tree is just part of the sport. Good luck.


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## Bilirubin (Mar 6, 2010)

Eric2.0 said:


> Now that is a cool looking trail! That is something I could do and it doesn't have trees where I have to grab so I don't hit my bars on them.
> 
> I'l go back when it's dry. It was really muddy and the roots were soaked yesterday.


Do so. Mind you, for that trail, align the trees to vertical. It has some relief but is considered an easy/early season trail out here.

The irony here is that trail is fresh from a cloud burst, and I had issues with climbing wet roots on that ride too. Just did it yesterday when dry and rocked it. :thumbsup:

Here is my bike after that first wet ride.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Now I know the reasons behind some of the names of these bikes.... Rock Hopper, HardRock, Stump Jumper....lol.

I'll go back when it's dryer... If my bike sticks better it may be more doable.
I'll stuff band-aids in my saddle and a Twinkie and a pepsi for when I can't take it anymore.


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## Zoke2 (Nov 16, 2007)

jdreher55 said:


> Do you not ride if you don't have a $400 rack to put your bike on


no need to spend that much for a bike rack


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## USATorque55 (May 30, 2010)

Also looks and sounds like the trail was very wet. I think the IMBA rule is 24 hours after a rain, but riding wet trails can be muddy/difficult and damage trails.


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Zoke2 said:


> no need to spend that much for a bike rack


Alright, I see what you did there.


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## Kneescar (Feb 26, 2009)

http://www.saris.com/bike-racks/vehicle-racks/trunk-racks.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=56&category_id=7

$50. Perfect for the beginner.

That Cyclocross video was pretty damn impressive. Thanks for posting.


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## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)

Eric2.0 said:


> You've got to be kidding me..


my very first trail, ever, about 6 weeks back consisted of 6 miles of that and lots WAY WAY worse...the track was tighter on width too. I got bounced around like a ragdoll. My buddy and I took a solid 5-6 spills each. Fallen trees (big ones), 5-6" roots on downhill sections, rock gardens going uphill (hate those with a passion) sections that just drop out about 2-3 feet beneath you as you go downhill...

It was an eyeopener...a very enticing one at that. I am hooked...at the age of 38 no less. 

I may need to go FS sometime though...my lower back ain't what it used to be.


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## schwiiz (May 11, 2010)

That definitely is an intermediate trail. If you stick to progressing your riding skills, you'll be riding it in no time from start to finish.

To work on your skill progression, try to find short sections of intermediate trail and do them when it's dry. If you see roots and rocks that scare you a bit, but not a lot, ride over them and not around them. The idea is to challenge yourself but not become discouraged.


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## UEDan (Apr 11, 2010)

I know how you feel, my first ride was with 2 seasoned riders.... tough, but they really pushed me. And hella fun.
keep trying, You'll be fine.
And it looks like you can get your frame into the trunk. Just take off the wheel+seat and watch for the derailleur.


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## simian23 (Aug 13, 2004)

Good advice in this thread. I second the advice to ride with other people, lower your tire pressures (30 - 35 psi), and to get a bike rack if your trails get a bit soft. I'll also add that you should keep your head up and look well down the trail, not at the trail directly in front of your tire. It will help you anticipate difficulties to come. Another tip is not to just sit and spin. The bumpier the trail is, the more you should be out of your saddle. Just stand on the pedals and hover over your saddle, allowing the bike to rotate on your feet and using your legs to absorb the bumps. This is particularly important on a hardtail (but still useful for full suspension bikes).

Singletrack is fun precisely BECAUSE there are limited options for path control. Relaxing the body and learning to go over obstacles is what makes the sport so entertaining.

As for pedals hitting rocks, try a technique called "ratcheting." When you see a tight spot for your pedals instead of making a full rotation of the crank, backpedal and do a 1/4 crank turn. I used this technique a dozen times on nearly every trail I rode in New England.

Stick with it. You might find out singletrack isn't really your thing, but you might also have an "ah-ha" moment and fall in love like the rest of us. :thumbsup:


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## kiwi_matt (Jul 25, 2008)

Part of been relaxed is also allowing the bike to move beneath you and allowing it to do its thing.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Wow.....cool responses here, you all are great.

I found an online picture that shows about how the trail I was on is. This trail is just like this one in this picture and it even gets tighter than that. At some points it was so bad that I had no choice but to jump off and walk.










It was just a bad start, wet trail, to much PSI, expecting more of an open trail ect ect. I also didn't feel like breaking my bones and being out of work either. If I went stupid and tried to ride I probably would of busted my ass.

The DB response wanted to go though, I could feel the torque in the first gear going over roots and a friggin tree lol. I hopped the front onto the tree then just peddled over it..not hard at all. It does feel a little tall while riding these trails and it makes things more intimidating and like I can't control it as well. I would be better off with a smaller frame I think, but for open road and railroad trails, I feel good on the 18" frame. The DB is a big bike, probably get a smaller one for next year.
Anyways, I want to keep at it so I'll go back when dry....maybe even later today for a short run to see if it's dried out.

Another thing is the brakes on the Response...no matter how much I tweek them, they just don't hold on a steep downhill..it will actually start to speed up even if I hold the brakes hard. An upgrade in brakes is a certain if I keep riding these types of trails and now I understand why you wouldn't want cheap components and a wal-mart bike would never survive this kind of trail lol...


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

If your brakes are that bad, you certainly need to do something about them. They wouldn't be safe in traffic either. It is possible that the discs and pads have been contaminated: oil on brake surfaces is not good.

Did you use the front brake too? That is where the braking power is but sometimes you need to be careful using it.

If you get hydraulic brakes, it looks like you'll need new shifters too, as you seem to have combined brake and shift levers.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

The brakes are fine for the road..stop good and on railroad trails, but steep downhill the other day on that trail I find out they wouldn't let me "creep" down slowly and I could not get it stopped completely even pressing on both front/rear at the same time. I have them adjusted to "hair trigger" so I have plenty of leverage.

Check this out http://nnytrails.freehostia.com/map11.htm

Apparently there is a trail called Olmstead at the park I ride and it's 3/4 up the hill on the left. Funny I have not noticed it and the sign in the past two days. Sounds cool and has old ruins to the old ski area to see.... I think I'll go up there and look harder for the entrance today. Probably just walk it, because I'm to tired right now to ride it. I'll take the bike in case though..heh heh


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## simian23 (Aug 13, 2004)

Never known a brake, of any kind, ever (certainly not disc brakes!) that wouldn't lock up the tires at creeping speed. Especially not in the wet! There is something wrong...either with technique, the pads, or the setup. Weird.


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## bluspikez (May 17, 2010)

simian23 said:


> I'll also add that you should keep your head up and look well down the trail, not at the trail directly in front of your tire. It will help you anticipate difficulties to come. Another tip is not to just sit and spin. The bumpier the trail is, the more you should be out of your saddle. Just stand on the pedals and hover over your saddle, allowing the bike to rotate on your feet and using your legs to absorb the bumps. This is particularly important on a hardtail (but still useful for full suspension bikes).


Another thing to note, along with simian's advice, is that it always seems that if you focus on only one part/spot of the trail, you WILL end up riding over that spot (at least for me anyways). For instance, you see a rock that scares you, and you keeps eyeing it. Before you know it, you are on it with the front tire and don't know what to do.

Instead of focusing on that one spot, try to find a line through the entire section and treat it as a whole as you keep riding (this is what simian is talking about - it helps immensly). You'd be surprised at how easy it is to get over an obstacle if you let the bike do the work! 

Like everyone else says, just keep at it, and before you know it you will be bombing those downhills and shredding the climbs like it's your job.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Eric2.0 said:


> It does feel a little tall while riding these trails and it makes things more intimidating and like I can't control it as well. I would be better off with a smaller frame I think, but for open road and railroad trails, I feel good on the 18" frame. The DB is a big bike, probably get a smaller one for next year.


If the seat height is correct from the image that you posted, then I certainly would not recommend a smaller frame.

I think you're just being hard on yourself, take a step back, get on some easier trails and progress into harder trails as you get comfortable with easier ones. Go onto your regional forum here on MTBR and browse or ask for trail recommendations for someone just getting going. Someday you'll look back at that trail and not have to wonder why we were all so eager to take your $200.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

zebrahum said:


> If the seat height is correct from the image that you posted, then I certainly would not recommend a smaller frame.
> 
> *I think you're just being hard on yourself,* take a step back, get on some easier trails and progress into harder trails as you get comfortable with easier ones. Go onto your regional forum here on MTBR and browse or ask for trail recommendations for someone just getting going. Someday you'll look back at that trail and not have to wonder why we were all so eager to take your $200.


:yesnod:


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

I could have made this post a few years ago.... The first time we ventured off the dirt roads to the mountain bikers single track I remember thinking "are these F'ing guys crazy!!"

Fast forward 2 years and I have 4 bikes and my main problem is finding/building stuff to fling my bike and body off of :thumbsup:

me









and the girl friend


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## davedg (Sep 11, 2009)

simian23 said:


> Never known a brake, of any kind, ever (certainly not disc brakes!) that wouldn't lock up the tires at creeping speed. Especially not in the wet! There is something wrong...either with technique, the pads, or the setup. Weird.


Probably the same guy that installed his fork, installed his brakes.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

davedg said:


> Probably the same guy that installed his fork, installed his brakes.


Holy ****! How did I miss that?

*Edit: it's way too Monday for you to be doing that to me*


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Wow...the whole time I'm reading this I kept expecting to reply that you were being sarcastic


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

I believe the "Not backwards now" under his username is an indication the fork was once backwards.... but isn't anymore. Cheers to that!


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## davedg (Sep 11, 2009)

jdreher55 said:


> I believe the "Not backwards now" under his username is an indication the fork was once backwards.... but isn't anymore. Cheers to that!


Yes, but I think he should take his bike to the lbs and have it looked over. It sure seems that his brakes aren't working like they should be. And given the track record of the guy that assembled the bike. There's no telling what else could have been assembled incorrectly.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Nobody that I've ridden with has brake levers aligned horizontally, like seen in the pics in the first post. Having them angled down gives a much more natural grip. Aligned with the forearms maybe. If you've ever held a gun, the brake lever should be where the trigger would be.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

davedg said:


> Yes, but I think he should take his bike to the lbs and have it looked over. It sure seems that his brakes aren't working like they should be. And given the track record of the guy that assembled the bike. There's no telling what else could have been assembled incorrectly.


Ah, so I wasn't duped by a really good photoshop job.

Like others have said, angle those levers down, take your bike to a different/better shop and have it looked over. I'd bet money your brakes are just poorly adjusted or assembled and that you can get them to work a whole lot better.


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## davedg (Sep 11, 2009)

zebrahum said:


> Ah, so I wasn't duped by a really good photoshop job.


For your reading pleasure. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=630327


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## bclagge (Aug 31, 2009)

davedg said:


> For your reading pleasure. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=630327


O M G, thank you for that. :thumbsup:


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## dhbomber (Nov 7, 2006)

I think that bike was hand built proudly at an authorized Performance Bike Shop!


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

davedg said:


> For your reading pleasure. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=630327


Oh holy crap, I can't believe I've missed this. It's like every single one of my favorite kinds of dumb posts all in one place! Troll Christmas!


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Found the Olmstead trail finally and I had a freakin ball. It was dry and now I get the obsession. I rarely got out of third gear and it was a blast taking on sharp turns around the trees and powering out shooting up the hills. I even went through an old Creek bed I think. I did go up a few hills and one being steep with rocks then at the very top a root cut into the top shelf. I had to bail out there lol I also found out I like the seat lower going through there.

But yes, much better experience today and I wanted to keep going but I have to go into work later(sucks) It was fun though and I'll be back. It was really nice to use the bike for what it was meant for, the thing worked well and nothing busted and I could hear the tires gripping to the rocks and hit the sidewalls numerous times against stuff where I thought for sure I'd blow a tire. I even found a party spot with smashed beer cans all over the place lol..... Drinking and biking....I dunno.

Well for the pictures of my backwards fork....Well I had enough ridicule over it and excuse me for not knowing WTF is going on. I'm getting there though...I have a real MT. Bike helmet and shorts... next I want gloves and shin guards maybe elbow pads.... I don't care, it was fun today, but I see how someone could get really F*cked up out there so yes, a full closet of Armour is in the works. 

I also can't believe that it wasn't that hard to peddle around..I thought it would take all my breath from me, but I came out feeling ok.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Also ok I'll move the levers back at an angle. They were like that but I assumed they were wrong. Another newb mistake and probably why my wrist are a bit sore.. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'll get it right after a while....just gotta keep going lol....keeeeeepppppp gggooooiinnnggggg..


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Ray Lee said:


> I could have made this post a few years ago.... The first time we ventured off the dirt roads to the mountain bikers single track I remember thinking "are these F'ing guys crazy!!"
> 
> Fast forward 2 years and I have 4 bikes and my main problem is finding/building stuff to fling my bike and body off of :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


OMG, these pics make me feel like a little girl out there.

Awesome pictures


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Eric2.0 said:


> Also ok I'll move the levers back at an angle. They were like that but I assumed they were wrong. Another newb mistake and probably why my wrist are a bit sore.. Thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> I'll get it right after a while....just gotta keep going lol....keeeeeepppppp gggooooiinnnggggg..


Try starting your brake levers at about a 45 degree downward angle. The idea is that you should be able to draw a line down your arm while you are riding and out to your levers. That way you don't have to bend your wrists to odd places when you go to use the brakes.

Another good way to set up your levers is to move them in toward the center of the handlebar so that when your hand is resting on the grips you can reach out with one or two fingers and grab right inside the little notch of the brake lever.

And here's one of my favorites to get me all pumped up for riding, everyone else who's ever been on a bike forum will probably recognize it by URL alone, so bear with me:

Hint: Cat Empire.






We bust your balls, then you keep posting pictures from your exploits. You're doing fine in my book! Just leave the blind zealotry of Diamondback in your pocket next time. I get pulled into defending my points all the time, and it usually ends up making me look dumb too. :thumbsup:

*edit: how did I forget this similar, but amazing segment from Roam?


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## davedg (Sep 11, 2009)

zebrahum said:


> Try starting your brake levers at about a 45 degree downward angle. The idea is that you should be able to draw a line down your arm while you are riding and out to your levers. That way you don't have to bend your wrists to odd places when you go to use the brakes.


Glad things went better for you today. Sounds like you're starting to have fun.

For a visual reference the top picture that Ray Lee posted shows about how your brake levers should angled.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Glad to see some of the blowhards on the other big thread you were involved in didn't discourage you :cornut:

I see more mountain biking in your future :yikes: :lol: :lol:

:rockon: :drumroll: :cornut: :incazatto:

I got carried away.......


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## bclagge (Aug 31, 2009)

Eric2.0 said:


> But yes, much better experience today and I wanted to keep going but I have to go into work later(sucks) It was fun though and I'll be back. It was really nice to use the bike for what it was meant for, the thing worked well and nothing busted and I could hear the tires gripping to the rocks and hit the sidewalls numerous times against stuff where I thought for sure I'd blow a tire. I even found a party spot with smashed beer cans all over the place lol..... Drinking and biking....I dunno.


Awesome you had a better time today! :thumbsup: Have some fun out there. Just be careful! Once you get mountainbikitis it's only a matter of time before you get upgraditis and then you get an empty wallet.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Just keep riding. If you are any bit athletic you will probably be able to make it through those trickier trails in a month or two, based on how often you are riding.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Here is the MTBer process, at least this is how its going for me 

IWantABikeitis
INeedABikeitis
Upgradeitis
Iwantanotherbikeitis
Debt.


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## JCullen (Oct 20, 2009)

Eric2.0 said:


> Oh it was above my skill level for sure, but I was expecting some fairly open trails that I didn't have to literally duck under fallen trees and pinch my foot between the pedals and sharp rocks that pierced out from the sides of the trails. I had to jump off like 50 times when a root would make the bike slide and I never got out of the lowest gear. I actually go tintimidated and scared, because on one side it was a steep drop-off and my bike is slipping all over the place.
> I knew I would get hurt so I just quit....nothing like I was expecting....I was expecting like old railroad bed type trails, not having to creep in first gear and hold onto trees to keep from falling.
> 
> I think at 35 this type of riding isn't for me. I need more of an open trail.


Thompson Park Rocks!

It helps if you have someone show you the ropes your first time out though. There are plenty of places where you can get in over your head. (My first OTB was there) and plenty of places to build some decent skills.

Head on over to Black River Adventure shop and talk to the folks there. (There's a good reason to support your LBS see?) They used to hold group rides on Tues and Thurs. Can't remember which day was road and which MTB off-hand, but regardless, it helps.

First time out those trails kicked my butt, but now I wish I could get back up in NNY as not only Thompson Park but all the XC ski trails make for some sweet singletrack in the summer. Try Barnes Corners if you ever get the chance. Just watch out for the cliff on your left as you approach the hidden waterfall!

Riding in the wet is discouraged in NNY, I was always told if you leave more than your tread depth behind, you shouldn't be out.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

*Wow.*



perttime said:


> Nono, my southern neighbor said "cyclocross":
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a lot more respect for cx riders now.

Joe


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

davedg said:


> For your reading pleasure. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=630327


Reading threw that made a bad day tolerable....funny, funny stuff.
The things people say and profess to know on a forum.....damn

Eric...in a few months you'll look back on that trail and wonder what the big deal was. It's all part of the learning process. It doesn't happen overnight.


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## ski_adk (May 10, 2009)

Remember, you're a beginner and right now, it's all about having fun. Also, remember the word "progression". As long as you're learning new skills, progressing through the sport and having fun at it, then it'll be game-on for you in no-time. 

In regards to those rocky, rooty sections that were giving you fits, those are places where power and speed can be your friend. Going over such things too slowly can easily cause you to stall and tip. Work on your leg/bursting strength and you'll soon be spinning right over such things.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

ski_adk said:


> Remember, you're a beginner and *right now*, it's all about having fun. Also, remember the word "progression". As long as you're learning new skills, progressing through the sport and having fun at it, then it'll be game-on for you in no-time.
> 
> In regards to those rocky, rooty sections that were giving you fits, those are places where power and speed can be your friend. Going over such things too slowly can easily cause you to stall and tip. Work on your leg/bursting strength and you'll soon be spinning right over such things.


It is ALWAYS about having fun. We don't ride because we get paid to, we ride because it's a passion of ours. If the passion isn't there, you're not having fun and shouldn't be riding.


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## bharris601 (Feb 23, 2007)

The first time I rode a real mtb trail it about killed me. Now I'm starting to get better at it but I still have some of those moments where my concentration wains. Just the other day that happened and I bounced off a tree then went OTB. People keep telling me that that kind of thing just happens in mtbing. So I just keep getting back up and back on the bike. After all I much rather prefer dodging trees than cars.


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## RocksInPieces (Jul 10, 2010)

What a beautiful trail!! I consider myself a beginner-intermediate, and I'd love to do that thing. And I agree with others. Your bike is brand new looking compared to what I've seen. I started biking this year in March up in the Rockies. Everyone I passed said it was too early in the season. I'd come home with my face caked in mud, my legs looked like I'd been in a mud bath, and my bike wasn't blue anymore. Lots and lots of snow and wet trails, and four months on, you can still see my bike tracks in the areas with least amount of erosion. Brings back memories and a tear to my eye.

But seriously, it's excellent to "accidentally" hit a trail that may be above your skill level, simply because you probably wouldn't have tried it in the first place. Now you know your limits at the moment, and you can work your way up. Just keep biking. Bike bike bike.

Again, gorgeous pix. I should start taking a camera out with me too. Actually, I do, kinda, but not the portable cameras.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Thanks.

It is fun and I had a good run out there today although it was a short run(couple of miles) The track was cool and in a lot of areas I found myself fairly flat and some downhill. A few hills I had to power up with rocks on them, but I ran the softer pressure and could actually hear the tires grip. They slipped a little, but not as bad as the other day. 

I'm probably not going to race or be completive in this sport, but for me it's just a personal thing...another thing to try and get good at plus I needed some sort of exercise and I'd rather do this than run or lift weights. I do like it though, after today I quickly felt why people like doing this.... Nice feeling of accomplishment after you come out the other side and conquer the obstacles. Also I really didn't have to REALLY pound my ass and lose my breath getting through there, some stuff was hard, but for the most part I just had it in second and just picked my way through and jumped the occasional log or big root. 

I could go on and on, but from today I know I can do it and I believe I'll keep going with this.

As for my other thread..well yes.... Aint gotta a woman friend ATM and I go a little nuts sometimes. The biking helps with that aspect too... takes my mind out of the gutter for a while.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Probably shouldn't add this, but it was something I have never seen before...I'm dead serious.

Almost to the end of the trail I saw a naked man sitting on a log having his way with himself. It took me a bit to see what was going on and then I quickly stopped and got my ass out of there. I guess when you go deep into the woods you can expect anything....It does get a bit scary back there. 

I wasn't sure if I should of called the police or not...I mean it's a public trail, why couldn't he do that in his own yard. If I see him out there again, I'll call the cops... I don't need to see that **** when I go riding..also he was doing it a mere 200 feet from the public park.

Deliverance came to mind.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Nah, don't call the cops - cop callers suck :madman:


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Hey, he made me have to back-track friggin half a mile and hunt for another exit. He was sitting there right next to the trail..WTF.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Allright just got back from work and have to turn in in a bit... One more question.

Is the point of single track to complete the trail as fast as you can? Is that what riders strive for?....to go as fast as possible?


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Yeah - I dunno...just avert your eyes and ride past and hope you don't get 'shot'


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

highdelll said:


> Yeah - I dunno...just avert your eyes and ride past and hope you don't get 'shot'


Or chance being thrown off the bike and told to squeal like a pig:eekster: (Deliverance reference movie)


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Eric2.0 said:


> Allright just got back from work and have to turn in in a bit... One more question.
> 
> Is the point of single track to complete the trail as fast as you can? Is that what riders strive for?....to go as fast as possible?


I know I don't


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Eric2.0 said:


> Allright just got back from work and have to turn in in a bit... One more question.
> 
> Is the point of single track to complete the trail as fast as you can? Is that what riders strive for?....to go as fast as possible?


Up to you.

For me, it's usually about flow, cleanliness (as in not having to put a foot down, not banging my rear wheel into things, etc.) and speed. More-or-less in that order. But there are a lot of other things that are fun about singletrack, especially on the East, where there are jumps and things on a lot of the trails. Catching air is fun. Doing a difficult line on skinnies is kind of a rush. Learning to do more technical tricks is fun. The sense of accomplishment of getting to the top of something difficult is pretty sweet. The sense of being in the woods, despite being within the Five Burroughs was pretty great when I still lived out there.

That's part of why there are so many different kinds of mountain bike.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

The point of singletrack ... or doubletrack or dirt road, for that matter... is to do whatever you like best, unless you are racing.

Some pieces of trail I just want to clear without stumbling too much: pick a line where I manage to keep moving. Preferably somewhat smoothly. Others I like to take at some speed, but still try to keep it controlled. Then there's spots where I want to stop and take in the view (and catch my breath).


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

I like hauling ass where I can, but maybe I'll take another lap with other goals. Maybe one is getting air, flowing, picking lines different from my other laps, ect. It's all about what YOU like.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

I'm going back up in a moment to see if I can follow this map. I learned yesterday from a guy that the ski team marks the trails by color coded ribbons. and numbers for routes.

No hard core today, just look around and flip off a few pics.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Good god...you go to these trails like every day 


Lucky bastage


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## Gsromich (Nov 22, 2009)

Heres my dirty bike after on of my wet rides.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Very nice :thumbsup:. Are the brakes hydros? I like the headtube....it looks cool.


Is that red cord thing a lock? If so, why?


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

Eric...gotta hand it to you. You've listened to some lame people and still come back.

Ignore the lame responses and go ride. You'll learn the in and outs real quick, and I applaud you for not getting bent outta shape. I would bet half the people posting are In no better shape than you are. It takes time to get it right where you can scream down a trail.


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## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)

hardtailkid said:


> Is that red cord thing a lock? If so, why?


Because it matches the reflector. 

Ok, that was a low blow, but I am just busting chops here.


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## Mount Dora Cycles (May 29, 2009)

hardtailkid said:


> Very nice :thumbsup:. *Are the brakes hydros*? I like the headtube....it looks cool.
> 
> Is that red cord thing a lock? If so, why?


If you see the 2nd picture has 3 cables. What would the 3rd cable be for?:thumbsup:


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

larlev said:


> Eric...gotta hand it to you. You've listened to some lame people and still come back.
> 
> Ignore the lame responses and go ride. You'll learn the in and outs real quick, and I applaud you for not getting bent outta shape. I would bet half the people posting are In no better shape than you are. It takes time to get it right where you can scream down a trail.


Not to be condescending, but I think Eric appreciates me more than you...at least I give a shi!t about him riding. Unlike you, who just barges into a thread and slams a LBS on here for NO reason, then continues to attack him. You don't mention Eric, whos thread this is, until now.

I have some confessions to make though.

I'm still on training wheels :/

I can scream down a trail, but after a while I start to lose my voice.

I'd say I'm in reasonable shape...?

You be the judge:


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

Ah.ya ok man....your the man.....prob your first bike and your an expert


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

You call me lame and unfit.....I call you condescending :thumbsup:


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## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)

Well, this thread is titled "Total Disaster" afterall. May as well live up to that name eh' gents? Either that or everyone can just stop, be like adults and get back on track.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Look at all of these e-muscles....:thumbsup: ride on guys


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Does this qualify as cyber bullying?


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

hardtailkid said:


> You call me lame and unfit.....I call you condescending :thumbsup:


You called yourself lame and unfit....


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

larlev said:


> Ah.ya ok man....your the man.....prob your first bike and your an expert


Thats a bit judgemental, in my most humble of opinions. Just because someone is on their "first bike" doesn't mean they're completely retarded. Someone could be on their 15th bike and be totally stupid. Let's not base someones knowledge on the number of bikes they've owned, mkay?


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Seriously? Do you want me to go back, quote your post, and show you that you did? I mean this is just stupid.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

Im gonna cyber beat the fack outta everyone in here if the lameness continues :madman:


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

larlev said:


> Eric...gotta hand it to you. You've listened to some* lame people *and still come back.
> 
> Ignore the lame responses and go ride. You'll learn the in and outs real quick, and I applaud you for not getting bent outta shape. I would bet half the *people posting are In no better shape than you are*. It takes time to get it right where you can scream down a trail.


:skep:


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

hardtailkid said:


> Thats a bit judgemental, in my most humble of opinions. Just because someone is on their "first bike" doesn't mean they're completely retarded. Someone could be on their 15th bike and be totally stupid. Let's not base someones knowledge on the number of bikes they've owned, mkay?


Uh...sorry bro it does matter. Bit hey, you keep on thinking you know what your talking about.....i'll keep it between us.


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## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)

Biohazard74 said:


> Im gonna cyber beat the fack outta everyone in here if the lameness continues :madman:


A more blunt approach to what I was saying. Someone will eventually have to man up, take the high road and let the lesser child have the last word to feel good.

Wonder who it will be?


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Sorry....I'm trying to end it, but hes relentless....unless he decides to attack me again, I'm fwcking done here....


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

You sure are taking a general statement to heart....damn, man...if it doesn't pertain to you then ignore it. Funny thing is...it does pertain to you, and now your trying to justify your comments.

Give yourself some years....you'll get there newbie...but really I could care less. I'm done arguing.


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

hardtailkid said:


> Sorry....I'm trying to end it, but hes relentless....unless he decides to attack me again, I'm fwcking done here....


Simply amazing....

You come back when you have some experience under your belt...till then read what us experienced guys have to say.

..you officially have no cred...."troll removal expert"....one day when you've ridden more than ONE bike, we will listen to your comments.

Freaking trying to step up...man you must be crazy. Guys like you make a forum worse than it could have been. Bring your shick on...ive been riding/racing for 20+yrs and I welcome your expertise.


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

so what do you guys think of Panaracer Fire XC Pro's in red?


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

E
N
D

I
T

B
U
D
D
Y


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

jdreher55 said:


> so what do you guys think of Panaracer Fire XC Pro's in red?


They turn pink when exposed to sunlight .


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

jdreher55 said:


> so what do you guys think of Panaracer Fire XC Pro's in red?


Aesthetically speaking, it really depends on the bike they are on. It doesn't go well with a lot. Performance wise? I haven't used a pair before. I don't have the need for them where I am, and I am rolling on John Tomac Nevegal DTCs at the moment. Which I must say are pretty good.

Reason for editing: missspelling


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

hardtailkid said:


> E
> N
> D
> 
> ...


Ya...that's what we all figured you'd say.


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

If you want a set of tires that are cheap and good...try panaracer smoke and dart. $25 at cambria

Trust me on this one....I'll buy them from you if not satisfied.

Experience dictates better components.


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

larlev said:


> If you want a set of tires that are cheap and good...try panaracer smoke and dart. $25 at cambria
> 
> Trust me on this one....I'll buy them from you if not satisfied.
> 
> Experience dictates better components.


Yeah I was thinking of trying those.:thumbsup: what better time than now!


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## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)




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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

lmao ^


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

:lol: :lol:

(I wonder what he will nitpick me for this time :skep


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

Dude...you meed some medical help. You and twinblade married or dating?

Haha...oh damn..sorry for that. I'm really sorry


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## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)

Wow, I was on your side man. 

Now ya gone and done it!

:lol:


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

SHHH.


:lol:


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

TwinBlade said:


> Wow, I was on your side man.
> 
> Now ya gone and done it!
> 
> :lol:


On my side? How's that?...


----------



## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)

Well, I was responding and rapping with ya in another thread, jolly as can be.

But, forget it. I am done with both you poopy pants, diaper wearing adolescent punks now.

Sheesh, who was preaching "defensive"?

Night!


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

Hardtail....I can promise you this. You have 772 posts...you would think you'd have more experience....I'll be following you closely...my little expert. Hehe


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

TwinBlade said:


> Well, I was responding and rapping with ya in another thread, jolly as can be.
> 
> But, forget it. I am done with both you poopy pants, diaper wearing adolescent punks now.
> 
> ...


I thought you were....I must have read wrong. Sorry Bro. I apologize.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

I'll assume you are smarter than you act in this thread, so we're good. No hurt feelings??


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

hardtailkid said:


> I'll assume you are smarter than you act in this thread, so we're good. No hurt feelings??


I was apologizing to twinblade...your on your own. He knows a thing or two, your clueless. Ride and gain some experience...and report back.

It's ok to be overzealous...we all have done it.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Dude! I'm trying to get on good terms with you yet you continue to slam me? I mean seriously, what gives? I'm alot smarter than you actually give me credit for, you're just too busy attacking me to realize it. I know more than you give me an opportunity to show! I could probably teach you a thing or two, and I would hope you could teach me something as well. Can't you just like....be a good guy and put that argument behind yourself? When you say "your clueless", what do you mean? About what? Bikes? You haven't asked me a thing about bikes to which I could answer and prove I'm not clueless. Believe it or not, I do ride, and I have some experience on a bike (only 1850 miles according to my CatEye since late 2009)!!!!!!!! I'm not overzealous, you're just being condescending and it's annoying. It's a freaking internet forum! Can't you take your anger out on a punch bag, not a MTB forum? I can tolerate some people that make a sarcastic point here and there, that doesn't bother me. It's just how you crtique everything I say.

*Can't we all just get along?*

-Andy
ut:


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

Ah ...come 'on man. I'm done rationalizing with you. People will re-read this thread and make their own conclusions.

My only disagreement with you is about the chainring comment you mentioned earlier.
Your pushing it.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

We're good. Im embarassed because I acted stupid and what not. Sorry everyone. Thats actually sincere....I just had a bad day and I wasn't in a good mood. But I just pulled the trigger on some SLX hydros (that's the best therapy by the way :thumbsup, so I'm all good. 

-Andy


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

get a room!


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Motel 6 aaand Super 8 were booked!!!!

Are there any vacancies at Highdellls High Roller Get High Hotel?


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

$420/night


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

:incazzato: :incazzato: :madman:


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

HardtailKid..... Yes I pretty much have been riding every day and for the last three days I've been scoping out those single track trails at Thompson Park. I'm addicted to it now and it's a good way to blow off stress after work since I have no woman friend around anymore which is pretty stressful and sucks.

In other news OTB! OTB! I had an epic crash yesterday afternoon. Ran my left handle bar into a tree and the fork got pushed around then I went OTB lol.... Luckily I wasn't going fast, but it hurt a bit. It's been a very long time since I crashed a bike lol. *Looked around to see if anyone saw it*

I have a short youtbe to upload later....


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Hey...if you had a lady friend, you wouldn't be riding. you wouldn't be allowed. You would be...ummm.....cleaning


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Eric2.0 said:


> OTB! OTB! ...
> *Looked around to see if anyone saw it*


For about a year and a half, we've had a thread running on a local forum:

"1000 x OTB: how long does it take us?"

We are now at *384* and there's a few of mine there too, most of them at low speeds


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## kiwi_matt (Jul 25, 2008)

Eric2.0 said:


> HardtailKid..... Yes I pretty much have been riding every day and for the last three days I've been scoping out those single track trails at Thompson Park. I'm addicted to it now and it's a good way to blow off stress after work since I have no woman friend around anymore which is pretty stressful and sucks.
> 
> In other news OTB! OTB! I had an epic crash yesterday afternoon. Ran my left handle bar into a tree and the fork got pushed around then I went OTB lol.... Luckily I wasn't going fast, but it hurt a bit. It's been a very long time since I crashed a bike lol. *Looked around to see if anyone saw it*
> 
> I have a short youtbe to upload later....


Good stuff. I got flung over the bars yesterday


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## bikedreamer (Mar 27, 2010)

I don't have time to read 100+ posts, but I will mention this in case no one else has. Try practising trackstands. When you get good at those, your sense of balance will greatly improve, and those roots and rocks at low speed will seem like a piece of cake.


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## davedg (Sep 11, 2009)

perttime said:


> For about a year and a half, we've had a thread running on a local forum:
> 
> "1000 x OTB: how long does it take us?"
> 
> We are now at *384* and there's a few of mine there too, most of them at low speeds


It seems that most of mine happen at low speed.I can only recall one that happened at a higher speed. I still haven't figured out what happened in that case.


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## dexetr30 (May 8, 2008)

To the O.P....that looks like a fun trail! Fairly average ride for me and I'm 36 with only 53% lung capacity. It's not your age that's holding you back. Keep at it and you'll gain the skills needed to make it through.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

I've never went OTB, but then again, I have only done true singletrack once. My riding partner went OTB back in April, and fractured C1 and C2 vertebrae....


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## Heavy Hitter (Mar 12, 2010)

Im 34 and maybe in really good shape, but I don't think there is any need to be intimated by something because you are 35 years old. I mean really. I see guys riding bikes in their 50s on the same trials I am on. I went OTB the first time I rode in years and I personaly enjoyed it. I am not afraid of stuff like that, but it comes with learning how to sit on the bike at different points in the ride.

A lot of it is just courage and commitment. From the pics, the trails look fine to me. Also, you are worried about the bike getting dirty. Why? I'd worry about the bike NOT being dirty after spending hours on tracks. It's a bike..abuse it a little and have fun.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

I'm not worried about getting it dirty, I never said that did I? Took it down today but the trail was wet so I respected the rules to not run on wet track and ruin the trail. Got some mud on it though.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Here's a very small clip from yesterday at the park(I forgot my SD card so this is short) You'll see the type of stuff I am facing though. This hill looks way more steep in person.

Check it out!


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Eric2.0 said:


> Here's a very small clip from yesterday at the park(I forgot my SD card so this is short) You'll see the type of stuff I am facing though. This hill looks way more steep in person.
> 
> Check it out!


That's what a mountain bike is made for. I would climb that and climb that until you are ready to just fall over. Some day you will be able to push up that hill like it's nothing! Never stop trying.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

jdreher55 said:


> That's what a mountain bike is made for. I would climb that and climb that until you are ready to just fall over. Some day you will be able to push up that hill like it's nothing! Never stop trying.


Exactly ! The best part is when you finally do something you couldn't do at one point.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh I tried and got probably a quarter the way up then bounced over some roots and then my damn foot came off the pedal. I hit the brake hard and jumped off lol.

I think I know what clipless is all about now. May need some better pedals or shoes or both.
That pisses you off when the foot comes off mid-climb.


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Eric2.0 said:


> Oh I tried and got probably a quarter the way up then bounced over some roots and then my damn foot came off the pedal. I hit the brake hard and jumped off lol.
> 
> I think I know what clipless is all about now. May need some better pedals or shoes or both.
> That pisses you off when the foot comes off mid-climb.


Usually when I climb something full of roots and rocks I am not moving very quickly and I am seated. I slip around a little but I don't have so much weight on the pedals that I slip off. Clipless will help you a lot but that's another thing to practice by itself. Are you seated when climbing?


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

One thing I have noticed, I seem to be the only one out there lol. I have not seen one other MT bike on the trail, just some lady walking her dog in the more open area lol


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## S_Trek (May 3, 2010)

LOL I'm 51 and went OTB last month and still haven fun! I was never the type to just watch others.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Yesterday up that hill I was out of the seat, first gear and just pumping hard. I don't think I could do that seated....I don't see that happening.


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Eric2.0 said:


> Yesterday up that hill I was out of the seat, first gear and just pumping hard. I don't think I could do that seated....I don't see that happening.


Drop it into your granny gear, stay on the saddle and start breathing (don't forget to breathe). You probably won't get it your first, second, third or even tenth try but as long as you stick with it you'll be able to go up that hill in a bigger ring.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

jdreher55 said:


> Drop it into your granny gear, stay on the saddle and start breathing (don't forget to breathe). You probably won't get it your first, second, third or even tenth try but as long as you stick with it you'll be able to go up that hill in a bigger ring.


It was as low as gear I could get it... It takes a lot of weight off the rear when I lift, but if I sit the front on the Response will pop up...scares the frig out of me. Oh I breath..I have been practicing uphills on the overlook hill here at the zoo and going up hill a half mile that curves up to the front of the zoo.

LMAO check this out. Today I was going down to the bottom of the hill(street) and these kids on their little bikes were proudly smiling at me when I went down the hill past them. They were going up the hil pumping hard while their mom followed closely in the car beside them cheering them on. Well I got to the bottom, took a breath then started my own uphill battle. I felt so bad when I pumped past the same kids who were only half way up while they huffed and puffed...One even started walking his bike up lmao... Anyways I get to the top and then start my decent back to the bottom as the mother, kids look at me like "Holy ****" The mom probably thought I was being a jerk showing off or something lol.

Well I did that 4 times lmao.... I can't help it..I need to get into shape and ya gotta burn...I have no mercy for 8 year olds on fisher price bicycles lmao.


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Those poor kids.... I remember being one of those kids watching the neighborhood kids wheelie passed me on their BMX bikes. I was on a big wheel though.

Watch how this guy climbs... He doesn't appear to make it to the top and really isn't the greatest example i've seen but half of youtube seems to be rick rolls again so... here you go:


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Cool Vid.. "GIVE IT THE GAS! GIVE IT THE GAS!" LMAO hilarious. He seemed to be sat down all the way.

Well for next week I'm making that hill my mission. Going to see if I can get some shin guards and elbow guards perhaps. Just coming down on a sharp rock splitting my arm open bothers me lol.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

You don't need shin guards, thats more for people who do DJs, DHing, and FR. They actually need them, because it wouldn't be uncommon to see some harsh falls where their legs would get torn up. You (right now...) are just an aspiring XC rider, so you won't be talking falls that harsh. A pedal to the shin is just a thing that happens to everyone, it's not worth buying shin guards. Put the money towards a new fork. By the time you have around $400 (for a realllyyyy good fork), you will be a good enough rider to need s fork like that. I know you want your Fox Fork, but you don't need it. Maybe on your next bike a few years down the road :thumbsup:


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## OSOK (Jul 11, 2009)

Eric, what happens if you do it out of the saddle? Here's a tip...

Check attached file. You have no idea how much power you get doing that... and if the rear tire starts to loose traction simply move your weight back until it's tracking again...


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## OSOK (Jul 11, 2009)

hardtailkid said:


> You don't need shin guards, thats more for people who do DJs, DHing, and FR. They actually need them, because it wouldn't be uncommon to see some harsh falls where their legs would get torn up. You (right now...) are just an aspiring XC rider, so you won't be talking falls that harsh. A pedal to the shin is just a thing that happens to everyone, it's not worth buying shin guards. Put the money towards a new fork. By the time you have around $400 (for a realllyyyy good fork), you will be a good enough rider to need s fork like that. I know you want your Fox Fork, but you don't need it. Maybe on your next bike a few years down the road :thumbsup:


I disagree with this... I was eating it so bad when I started to the point that my right knee almost gave up... so I ended up buying knee guards. Sometimes that "aspiration" makes us push ourselves beyond what we can handle, and while we usually get better from doing so, we also sometimes get beaten the crap out of us.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

OSOK said:


> I disagree with this... I was eating it so bad when I started to the point that my right knee almost gave up... so I ended up buying knee guards. Sometimes that "aspiration" makes us push ourselves beyond what we can handle, and while we usually get better from doing so, we also sometimes get beaten the crap out of us.


I stand corrected


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Eric2.0 said:


> if I sit the front on the Response will pop up...


I mainly ride singlespeed, so standing is the only way I get up anything a little bit steep. 
BUT
If you have the low gears, it is easier to keep your balance and traction seated. To keep the front from popping up, you need to lean forward to get weight on the front wheel. Maybe even slide forward in the seat, so that you are sitting just on the tip.


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## bad news (Jul 12, 2008)

hardtailkid said:


> You don't need shin guards, thats more for people who do DJs, DHing, and FR. They actually need them, because it wouldn't be uncommon to see some harsh falls where their legs would get torn up.


This is totally untrue.

I know guys who wear full face helmets while trial riding, nevermind shin and knee guards. It is completely about your preference and what makes you feel comfortable. To ride well you have to feel relaxed and comfortable.


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

hardtailkid said:


> You don't need shin guards, thats more for people who do DJs, DHing, and FR. They actually need them, because it wouldn't be uncommon to see some harsh falls where their legs would get torn up. You (right now...) are just an aspiring XC rider, so you won't be talking falls that harsh. A pedal to the shin is just a thing that happens to everyone, it's not worth buying shin guards. Put the money towards a new fork. By the time you have around $400 (for a realllyyyy good fork), you will be a good enough rider to need s fork like that. I know you want your Fox Fork, but you don't need it. Maybe on your next bike a few years down the road :thumbsup:


And this comes from all your years experience riding huh?
Good grief...You give some really bad advice.


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

larlev said:


> And this comes from all your years experience riding huh?
> Good grief...You give some really bad advice.


Yeah I don't think this guy has a lot of riding experience.

I quote him "I've never went OTB, but then again, I have only done true singletrack once. My riding partner went OTB back in April, and fractured C1 and C2 vertebrae...."

But hey, this is still just riding a bike. Lets just have fun!


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## Heavy Hitter (Mar 12, 2010)

Whoever said you don't need shinguards is wrong.

Stick with good platform pedals. Clipless is nice, but honestly if you can ride on platform pedals, you will be a better rider if you ever make the change to clipless.

Also, for that hill, its not that bad. What helped me deal with those was leaning forward when I climbed. I climb out of the saddle if it is not for a super long duration and I lean forward. you can practice this when you have to go up really steep rollers.Those things will kill you if you don't have your body weight shifted properly.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

That hill in this clip(for those who haven't seen) is so much steeper looking when you are actually there. I walked up it and it has roots that form sort of like steps near the top and a few potholes. 



Another area on that trail has a hill(short) but it has shale rocks, roots and sharp rocks that pierce from the sides of the trail where the tires run. Just a few inches or so of room between the rocks for the tires to slide through and at the very top there is a shelf that you need to pop the front over.. On that hill I couldn't even get 5 feet up it.

Other ares have an extreme steep descent with roots, loose rocks and piercing rocks. I tried one out, but the front tire started sliding(even with 35 PSI in them. Also the brakes didn't feel like they would totally stop me and the whole thing was just plain intimidating. If I ever got going down it I'd probably fall and it wouldn't be pretty. Just amazing that some can actually take on a hill like that... In time I'l get brave and start trying them.

HardtailKid meant well, but I am getting all of the guards... Those climbs are dangerous if you have no idea what to do so even if I look retarded out there with all my stuff on, It will be worth it when I spill and land my knees and shin on a piercing rock. I don't feel like shedding blood and breaking bones plus I can't afford to lose time at work.

Thanks for all the tips, guys, you all are a good group here and I try to exercise the advice given. I'm going to test out trying to keep seated and see if I feel better going up that hill.

It's strange....I never thought I would take bike riding this seriously, but damn..it's addicting when you have challenges and get to see some great places that you have never seen before from the road. Meet some good people with the same interest too and that is nice.

Minus OTB's I like the sport... Lost near 8 pounds since I have started riding again.


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Eric2.0 said:


> Those climbs are dangerous if you have no idea what to do so even if I look retarded out there with all my stuff on, It will be worth it when I spill and land my knees and shin on a piercing rock.


when I rode street bikes I used to wear a full leather suit along with my helmet and gloves no matter what type of ride I was on. No shame in protection, it beats the alternative any day.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

jdreher55 said:


> when I rode street bikes I used to wear a full leather suit along with my helmet and gloves no matter what type of ride I was on. No shame in protection, it beats the alternative any day.


That would be to hot wouldn't it? I don't know if I could do full leather


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Eric2.0 said:


> That would be to hot wouldn't it? I don't know if I could do full leather


On a motorcycle... leather is a must and sweat washes off.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

I'm tupid, I was thinking a road bicycle(street) not a motorcycle.


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Eric2.0 said:


> I'm tupid, I was thinking a road bicycle(street) not a motorcycle.


I can't imagine riding a bicycle in full leathers  lol


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

Kneescar said:


> Wet rocks and roots plus the fact that you ran over mud that caked onto your tires makes for a hard time, especially on a trail that seems like it's above your skill level. Add the fact that it was your first time out there and it's not surprising that you had a miserable time. Welcome to mountain biking.
> 
> Go back when it's dry, preferably with someone else and see if it gets any easier. If you stick with it, you'll figure out that in time, that trail will seem like child's play. Trust me on this.
> 
> You'll just have to get over your fear of tight singletrack. There's no way around that. Scraping the bars against the occasional tree is just part of the sport. Good luck.


I hit my handlebars on trees all the time...Like the above poster said, it's part of the game. The trail will humble you eventually.


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

hardtailkid said:


> Is that red cord thing a lock? If so, why?


I've been stuck and had to lock up my trail bike by the trail head so I could go get my vehicle and pick it up. I carry a cheapie lock with me all the time.


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

jdreher55 said:


> Yeah I don't think this guy has a lot of riding experience.
> 
> I quote him "I've never went OTB, but then again, I have only done true singletrack once. My riding partner went OTB back in April, and fractured C1 and C2 vertebrae...."
> 
> But hey, this is still just riding a bike. Lets just have fun!


That confirms it....your right though it is just bike riding, gets a little annoying, however.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

I'm thinkin one of these is my next bike..... http://www.specialized.com/zz/en/bc/SBCExperience.jsp?eid=4342&menuItemId=9247

I figure if I can ride the Response through this stuff safely and professionally, beat the hell out of it and learn, My treat will be a new Epic...

I bet that bike is really nice to ride... Looks wild too.


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

Eric.....whoa now. Epics are for racing...a stumpy fsr would be a better choice for what you intend to do. Even the new camber would be a better choice


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Methinks Eric has 3.0 humor


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

highdelll said:


> Methinks Eric has 3.0 humor


He should attend the highdell school of mtb'ing


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

larlev said:


> He should attend the highdell school of mtb'ing


I might have to attend his!


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Eric2.0 said:


> I'm thinkin one of these is my next bike..... http://www.specialized.com/zz/en/bc/SBCExperience.jsp?eid=4342&menuItemId=9247
> 
> I figure if I can ride the Response through this stuff safely and professionally, beat the hell out of it and learn, My treat will be a new Epic...
> 
> I bet that bike is really nice to ride... Looks wild too.


So you are going to leap towards an epic!? I would think maybe a Stumpjumper would suit your needs for half the dollars. Go look at the Stumpjumpers. They are pretty sweet too.


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

highdelll said:


> I might have to attend his!


Ya...you could learn a things from him. You do suck at trail riding...


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

larlev said:


> Ya...you could learn a things from him. You do suck at trail riding...


Too many fire-roads - so little time


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

highdelll said:


> Too many fire-roads - so little time


Haha...I know, I know


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

What?... Race bike yes, but so? It should be great for bombing the trails as well even not racing. 

I meant after I learned all I can with my Response. After I can do the hills and all that and do bunnyhops(lmao) then I'll cut the **** and get a real bike lol

Read my signature.....I need a bike that will be as awesome as my nic name...hahhahahhaha


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## ASpot13 (Apr 4, 2007)

Eric, looking at the videos, I really think one of the most important things is going to be finding a tire that works good in your conditions. Any hill becomes significantly more of a challenge once the rocks and roots are slick from moisture. Having a tire that has good grip and you feel comfortable with will go a long way towards your climbing. Also, I think when one of the previous posters mentioned staying seated while climbing, he was basing it on the pictures/video. Yes, you get more power standing, but once you hit a slick root/rock, more often then not your back tire is going to spin and all momentum dies. Staying seated will sure good contact between the back tire and ground. I don't know if I would jump into clipless pedals right away. As cheesy as they are, cages would be good to help you learn and would not be as much of an investment. To the poster that said ride platforms and you would be a better rider, I would not trade my clipless pedals for XC any day. To each his own I suppose.


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

Eric2.0 said:


> What?... Race bike yes, but so? It should be great for bombing the trails as well even not racing.
> 
> I meant after I learned all I can with my Response. After I can do the hills and all that and do bunnyhops(lmao) then I'll cut the **** and get a real bike lol
> 
> Read my signature.....I need a bike that will be as awesome as my nic name...hahhahahhaha


Nah dude....your far from an epic. Stumpy should be your choice


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

ASpot13 said:


> Eric, looking at the videos, I really think one of the most important things is going to be finding a tire that works good in your conditions..


Back tire: Kenda Klaw XT Running 35 PSI with tubes on the trail, 55 PSI on the road.


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Eric, I have 10+ years of riding under my belt and I'm riding a Hardrock. Don't drop epic money for an Epic. A stumpjumper could more than suit you. I am not trying to offend you. Just save your money. Right now I am looking at a Scott Scale 40... it's a really nice bike but I won't be using it for more than just long singletrack rides. I'll keep my hardrock for casual rides. Get a stumpy for whichever (I really don't like fs bikes) you need a FS bike for and keep your HT around for those times you don't feel like plushing it up steep climbs...... I think I need to put my beer down, what a ramble.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

It seems like an FSR would rock back and fourth while pumping up a hill. I wouldn't like that.

It's early yet, but I am planning my next rig... Something lighter than the Response....The Response is an effin tank heavy. What a good bike to beat on and learn though..NOTHING has broken yet and I have been damn hard on it.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

itb!


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## jdreher55 (Jun 26, 2010)

Eric2.0 said:


> It seems like an FSR would rock back and fourth while pumping up a hill. I wouldn't like that.
> 
> It's early yet, but I am planning my next rig... Something lighter than the Response....The Response is an effin tank heavy. What a good bike to beat on and learn though..NOTHING has broken yet and I have been damn hard on it.


Ride that thing til it falls apart and get another HT. Gary Fisher makes some nice bikes as well. Is yours a 29er? If not... try one of those. I have been considering one myself. there are so many bikes out there you could almost spin a wheel and buy what it lands on and be satisfied as long as you aren't wheeling it out of wal mart.


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## was98strat (Jul 10, 2007)

Eric2.0 said:


> It seems like an FSR would rock back and fourth while pumping up a hill. I wouldn't like that.
> 
> It's early yet, but I am planning my next rig... Something lighter than the Response....The Response is an effin tank heavy. What a good bike to beat on and learn though..NOTHING has broken yet and I have been damn hard on it.


That all depends on if you get the Stumpy with the brain! without you'll hve to either play with the platform (like you would with any FS bike!) or learn to pedal better! a well setup FS won't bob too much once you learn how to pedal in proper circles!! ( it's harder than you think!)

the number 1 rule going uphill on a FS bike is stay seated!!! (actually that for the most part applies to hardtails also!)


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

perttime said:


> Nono, my southern neighbor said "cyclocross":
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damnit, now I want a cyclocross bike. The trails he was riding on looked really nice! My area has alot more roots which would prove to be a bit of a pain for a cyclocross bike. None the less, I am thinking I wouldn't mind giving it a shot! Love the way he went over the log (1:26). Definitely has some skill/balance.


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## mecca_1996 (May 3, 2010)

wish i could ride those trails!


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