# Funnest hardtail (to you) and why?



## AdamBike (Dec 11, 2015)

"Fun" may be relative and there are personal preferences and different riding styles/disciplines, but I'm hoping to hear what hardtail (fat bikes included) has been the "funnest" for you and why?

For me, fun = poppy (manuals easy, hops), nimble, responsive (so not too slack) comfortable/plush, and easy to roll over/through obstacles without feeling too beat up. So a thinner wheel size, though perhaps quicker in some cases, is not as fun to me as a plus 2.8-3.0 or even above tire (volume and traction benefits).

I'm more oriented towards playing around on mild trails with quick ups and downs and climbing over terrain that is off the beaten path. I like speed and long descents, but that's not primary, so the LLS geo is not as fitting to me (though admittedly I have not spent much time on that setup). I prefer being a little more upright where I can shift my weight quick and not feel like I'm dragging the bike at slower speeds. For the local trails, we get snow only occasionally with longer stretches of wet and dry seasons.

So my favorite bikes I've had or ridden so far have been (and I think in this order):

1. Trek Stache (29x3)
2. Santa Cruz Chameleon (27.5x2.8... current bike and thinking maybe I'll just go to 3.0s and hopefully(?) gain some more of the pros mentioned)
3. Surly Lowside (26x3 / SS / rigid... bike geo and tires were fun, but was left a little too beat up feeling for me)

A few I'm looking at with 4 season considerations:

• Kona Wozo (27.5 or 26 version)
• Surly Wednesday
• Trek Farley (probably the 27.5 version)

I've got a couple similar threads going and hearing about new bikes or consensus on certain bikes is helpful when considering a different one at some point (though understandably hard to find right now).


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Probably my most fun hardtail is my 2008 Jamis Dragon 29. I have ridden it on everything from multi-day bikepacking trips to lift served park days and from snowy gravel grinders and winter mountain single track to high alpine summer epic days above timberline. My second favorite is a 2008 FELT Nine. I like older geometry XC 29er hardtails with 2.4 tires for just about everything I ride.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

My early 2000's S-Works.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

A dirt jumper. It's the only hardtail I own these days.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)




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## CWWalker (May 11, 2016)

AdamBike said:


> "Fun" may be relative and there are personal preferences and different riding styles/disciplines, but I'm hoping to hear what hardtail (fat bikes included) has been the "funnest" for you and why?
> 
> For me, fun = poppy (manuals easy, hops), nimble, responsive (so not too slack) comfortable/plush, and easy to roll over/through obstacles without feeling too beat up. So a thinner wheel size, though perhaps quicker in some cases, is not as fun to me as a plus 2.8-3.0 or even above tire (volume and traction benefits).
> 
> ...


Trek Stache is a lot of fun, a bit more pop and faster than the Farley.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I really enjoy a good XC race hardtail. Riding them is a super engaging experience, the combination of being really fast and really sketchy makes riding them a very engaging experience. The trick is to make sure you are on the right trail, you get on a trail that is at their limit and they stop being fun really quickly. But on green and blue trails they are an absolute hoot.

As a single bike they don't have the performance range but they are great to have if you are fortunate enough to have a quiver of bikes.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

it comes down to how you ride. bigger tires work well when you're riding relatively slower over chunk.

but as you get more speed and start hitting the chunky stuff harder, you absolutely reach limits with high volume tires, as the casings end up being too lightweight and you start suffering ill effects of that. gotta bump up pressures beyond which is comfortable to compensate, and then you lose the benefits of bigger tires.

I say this as someone who used to ride a fatbike full time. it was fun in a lot of scenarios, even in the summertime, but I DID find the limits of what I thought was fun on that bike.

I'm on a hardtail with 29x2.6 rubber now, which seems a suitable compromise for most riding I do. I've found the limits of these tires, too, but it's on stuff I ride uncommonly enough that I can manage.

I'm having a lot of fun on a Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead. I haven't compared it to too many other "trail" hardtails, but I find it pretty fun and responsive.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

My '13 steel Kona Honzo. By far. Loved that bike, but these days I'm over hardtails. 
=sParty


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## JohnMcL7 (Jul 26, 2013)

For me it's a Stache as well and as much as I like my Farley, I only ride it in poor conditions where it's too muddy or snowy for the Stache.


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## AdamBike (Dec 11, 2015)

Great feedback so far, look forward to more replies. But in response to a couple posts, I am thinking of this as a potential one-bike quiver. Though, I do have a dirt jumper for the pump track and dirt jumps. So maybe I'm finding the Chameleon a bit too close at times in feel to that (even though it's gears and more travel) and sometimes a little beat up even (still trying to stay hardtail... full suspensions are nice, but prefer the simplicity right now)?

One thing that maybe frustrates me the most when riding (and I get technique can always be improved) is feeling like I get hung up or stalled at slow to moderate speeds trying to go over tall roots or rocks that kind of pitch me OTB a bit and kill momentum. I get a 29er helps with rollover, but aside from the Stache, I haven't so far cared for that wheel size and geo as much. So that's in part why I was wondering how a trail-oriented fat bike with 27.5 x 3.8s or so might do. (Would have maybe kept the Stache, but support/supply going forward with that wheel size made me hesitant since Trek discontinued.) I don't know I've found a 29+ plus with quite the agility of the Stache (Krampus is a bit longer chain stay) that would be as fun to me.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I think 3.8's will end up being way too squishy.. well, at least for the chunk here. 

I have a Paradox v3 that I've really been enjoying. It's 'slack' at 65º, but still is responsive enough, is playful enough to ride (although I've been pondering shortening my fork to 130 and seeing what that does), it's got a pretty steep STA and I've been enjoying what that does to body positioning.


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## AdamBike (Dec 11, 2015)

dysfunction said:


> I think 3.8's will end up being way too squishy.. well, at least for the chunk here.
> 
> I have a Paradox v3 that I've really been enjoying. It's 'slack' at 65º, but still is responsive enough, is playful enough to ride (although I've been pondering shortening my fork to 130 and seeing what that does), it's got a pretty steep STA and I've been enjoying what that does to body positioning.


Nice. 29 or 27.5+?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

AdamBike said:


> One thing that maybe frustrates me the most when riding (and I get technique can always be improved) is feeling like I get hung up or stalled at slow to moderate speeds trying to go over tall roots or rocks that kind of pitch me OTB a bit and kill momentum.


regardless of wheel size, working on skills and techniques can help you here a great deal. And even upper body strength to a degree. There is only so much wheel (and tire) size can help you with getting hung up. At some point you HAVE to use skill. Changing your wheel size is really only going to change WHICH things you hang up on. Maybe a change in wheel size will get you past a threshold for a particular trail or local area, but IME, you're more likely to just find that you hang up on a different feature, or a different spot in the same rock/root garden.

Working on slow speed, dynamic riding that engages your entire body to move the bike will make a big difference. Hops and track stands can help, too. You can't just rely on your wheel/tire size to do all the work for you.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

AdamBike said:


> Nice. 29 or 27.5+?


Yes 

It'll run 29x2.6" or 27.5x2.8"


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Steel XC SS (custom)- super fun, quick, rides nice
Surly Krampus SS- super fun, rigid fork, monster truck tires!
Kona Honzo ST- super fun, pretty burly setup with 140mm fork and 210mm dropper, rides really nice, killer trail hardtail!
(I have a few others, DJer, fatbike, cyclocross, full suspension, etc. but those top three are my primary trail bikes. I also have a Klunker in the works!) 

They're all good at slightly different things, I wouldn't say one is any more fun than the others, just different. For sure a steel frame is a requirement for me. Geometry is the #1 thing I look for in any bike. There is no one "best" geometry for me, choose the geo based on what you want from that bike, even if it's an all-rounder.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

Harold said:


> Changing your wheel size is really only going to change WHICH things you hang up on.


This. Even at 29 x 2.8 I can still hang up on roots and rocks when I get lazy or misjudge something. What hangs me up is taller now, but there is no magic when running into a perpendicular surface on the trail. You still need to be active on the bike. I love my plus conversion of my fat bike and for me it is great one bike solution, but if I did not have the winter snow/ice to contend with I would be on a more aggressive hardtail for sure. I came real close to buying a Chromag Rootdown or Canfield Nimble Nine before deciding "fat plus plus" was the way to go for me.


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## AdamBike (Dec 11, 2015)

Agree about no real substitute for technique, as noted. Thanks for expanding on it. But was wondering aloud what alleviates some in that regard with moderate trail obstacles, and just voicing a little burden. I noticed a difference in favor of the 29x3 over the current 27.5x2.8 (as far as rollover goes and comfort, while the 27.5 may be generally a little easier to pop around and over things).

That said, still appreciating seeing the replies with what you like and why


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

I have a custom hardtail that's very similar to a chromag primer- really long front wheelbase and upright seating position. Mine has more 'trail' steering geometry though, and room for 29+. It's great. With light tires it still cruises and hops around on XC trails just fine; it's really fun and reasonably light. And then i can take it to destination mtb parks and ride it all day. It's so long i don't really get nearly as beaten up as one might expect, and it's super forgiving on expert terrain.

I don't see any advantages to going with a short wheelbase hardtail, a big one is just totally better.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Chromag Stylus - Dirt jumper-ish, scalpel hotrod for trails
Kona Wozo - Fatbike fun with some all-mountain grit


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## goldsbar (Dec 2, 2004)

Harold said:


> but as you get more speed and start hitting the chunky stuff harder, you absolutely reach limits with high volume tires, as the casings end up being too lightweight and you start suffering ill effects of that. gotta bump up pressures beyond which is comfortable to compensate, and then you lose the benefits of bigger tires.
> 
> I say this as someone who used to ride a fatbike full time. it was fun in a lot of scenarios, even in the summertime, but I DID find the limits of what I thought was fun on that bike.


Yup, though it depends on where you live and what parks you ride. There's the rounded rock type of chunk versus those pointy rocks or especially those pointy rocks with hard crystals. We seem to have all and the stock XR2s on the Stache did really well on the rounded rock stuff. Pointy stuff was a roll of the dice.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

goldsbar said:


> Yup, though it depends on where you live and what parks you ride. There's the rounded rock type of chunk versus those pointy rocks or especially those pointy rocks with hard crystals. We seem to have all and the stock XR2s on the Stache did really well on the rounded rock stuff. Pointy stuff was a roll of the dice.


that's not what I'm talking about, really, even though it's a small part of it. I'm talking about sidewalls flexing in corners and undamped rebound (go fast enough over chunky enough terrain and even suspension will get overwhelmed). casings getting damaged is part of it, but it doesn't even have to be rocks. When your tires get bigger, things will become a risk of damaging your tires that smaller tires with stronger casings would shrug off like it's nothing.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

My Kona Honzo ESD. I’ve only done four rides on dirt so far but the weather is finally cooperating this week, so...

It is hands-down the most amazing hardtail I’ve ever ridden, thanks to the geometry. I am riding it faster than I rode my full suspension bikes in the 2000-2010 era. In some conditions it is faster than my enduro bike.

I am running EXO or DD casing Maxxis tires. I took my 2.6” Rekon off yesterday because it is a toy, and made for non-serious riding. 🤣. I tried it. The 2.5 DHF beats the pants off it. I also run Zee brakes with 203mm rotors at both ends. You can never have too much braking power.

My only minor critique of the ESD (as well as most other ultra modern frames) is the excessive length. I’d prefer to ride a large but with a 10mm shorter reach. Bikes are getting too long, and it takes away from the responsiveness fore and aft.

I have to be careful when I’ve been on the Honzo for a lot of rides and then switch to my enduro bike because the enduro bike is so much easier to wheelie and manual I end up almost looping out when I use the same force the Honzo makes me use.


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## commplex (Apr 17, 2009)

100% hands down without question my current bike which is a specialized fuse set up in 29er mode with a 130mm fork. I have set pr’s and snagged Kom’s on both climbs and descents. The bike is constantly blowing my mind and teaching me to never mentally limit the capabilities of a hardtail with good geo and set up properly.


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## sevenabs05 (Apr 16, 2021)

Specialized Fuse!!


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

Poppy, nimble, and responsive doesn’t really seem to go with 3” tires run at Tom Brady pressure. I like mine but I can see how 29x2.5 or 2.6 tires are beating them in the market.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

2017/2018 Canfield Nimble 9. Easily the best bike I've ever had. Still looking for a con against all its pros.
Sorry, forgot the "why"...
Climbing
Descending
Jumping
Lazy Pedaling
XC racing
All-day slug-fests
Rocks

Anyone who has ridden Ursus at Jakes Rocks, PA... this bike was made for that trail!


















-F


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

The XC 26er. 

Yes, still.


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## AdamBike (Dec 11, 2015)

Darth Lefty said:


> Poppy, nimble, and responsive doesn't really seem to go with 3" tires run at Tom Brady pressure. I like mine but I can see how 29x2.5 or 2.6 tires are beating them in the market.


More about working with the geo for me in this case (and sometimes I use riser bars to make it easier to pull up the front end)... the wider tires are about the little bit of extra cushion and traction that I prefer. I like speed and low rolling resistance, but they aren't the priority and I don't really time my laps. More about playing on the trails and going off the groomed track if desired. So it's kind of a balance, and I found a bike like the Stache seemed to make it work.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

2011 Kona Unit.
It's taken a few years, but I've got the cockpit dialed and just rolling down the drive gets the smile started.


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## AdamBike (Dec 11, 2015)

NordieBoy said:


> 2011 Kona Unit.
> It's taken a few years, but I've got the cockpit dialed and just rolling down the drive gets the smile started.


Nice, are you riding that on technical or chunky/rough trails, or just smooth single track? Wondering how it handles for you. The new Unit's I think are 29x2.6. I like the simplicity, but rigid has left me a little too beat up before (although it was on smaller wheel sizes).


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Can only remember riding two, both of my XC HT's. My Cannondale F-Si was a rocket, an amazing bike to ride. I took it down trails I shouldn't have and still had fun. But really, it was just wonderful to race XC on.


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## Slowandfat (Jan 4, 2020)

My funnest hardtail so far is my 2019 Chameleon in 27.5x2.8 guise. I had a Trek Stache (it was stolen), and it was fun too, but my Chameleon is more nimble and just suits my riding style better.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

AdamBike said:


> Nice, are you riding that on technical or chunky/rough trails, or just smooth single track? Wondering how it handles for you. The new Unit's I think are 29x2.6. I like the simplicity, but rigid has left me a little too beat up before (although it was on smaller wheel sizes).


Nowdays on everything APART from chunk.
I used to ride it everywhere, but after a few 3hr races with 20min chunky descents and a couple of 6hr's with lots of tree roots, I decided to just ride it for fun and enjoyment.
I use a 2012 Giant Anthem for racing now and the single speed Unit is the "joy of cycling" bike.

Blows away my 2011 (26er) Chameleon and 2011 (650b conversion) Stumpjumper hardtail in the smiles category.


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## AdamBike (Dec 11, 2015)

Slowandfat said:


> My funnest hardtail so far is my 2019 Chameleon in 27.5x2.8 guise. I had a Trek Stache (it was stolen), and it was fun too, but my Chameleon is more nimble and just suits my riding style better.


Sorry to hear about what happened to your Stache. They go 1 and 2 for me with the Stache maybe taking the edge I think (it seemed to strike a balance of nimbleness with a little more comfort). What is your riding style that the Chameleon fits better and is more fun? Curious to hear more about your experience. I'm going back and forth wondering if I keep the Chameleon (and put 3.0s on instead of the 2.8s) or go back to the Stache (or some other bike totally).


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Out of the box it's hard to beat a Stache.

If you can afford custom, something Stache-esque.


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## Slowandfat (Jan 4, 2020)

AdamBike said:


> Sorry to hear about what happened to your Stache. They go 1 and 2 for me with the Stache maybe taking the edge I think (it seemed to strike a balance of nimbleness with a little more comfort). What is your riding style that the Chameleon fits better and is more fun? Curious to hear more about your experience. I'm going back and forth wondering if I keep the Chameleon (and put 3.0s on instead of the 2.8s) or go back to the Stache (or some other bike totally).


In terms of riding style, the best part of riding, for me, is carving up a turn. I think there's nothing more satisfying than making a good clean turn and thinking "There's no way I could have done that faster/cleaner." I don't know if it's the smaller diameter wheel size on my Chameleon, maybe a bit stiffer wheelset, or just some kind of magic sauce in the Chameleon's geometry, but that bike really carves. I should also mention that my favorite local trail is buffed out, really fast singletrack, so I don't really get hung up on rocks/roots with the smaller wheel size. And most of the turns are flat (no real berms). But don't get me wrong, I loved my Stache too. Just not quite as much as my Chameleon. FWIW, I used to run 3.0's on my Chameleon, but I switched to 2.8's due to having a few more tire options available. Cheers!


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## AdamBike (Dec 11, 2015)

Slowandfat said:


> In terms of riding style, the best part of riding, for me, is carving up a turn. I think there's nothing more satisfying than making a good clean turn and thinking "There's no way I could have done that faster/cleaner." I don't know if it's the smaller diameter wheel size on my Chameleon, maybe a bit stiffer wheelset, or just some kind of magic sauce in the Chameleon's geometry, but that bike really carves. I should also mention that my favorite local trail is buffed out, really fast singletrack, so I don't really get hung up on rocks/roots with the smaller wheel size. And most of the turns are flat (no real berms). But don't get me wrong, I loved my Stache too. Just not quite as much as my Chameleon. FWIW, I used to run 3.0's on my Chameleon, but I switched to 2.8's due to having a few more tire options available. Cheers!


Nice! Great to hear, thanks for painting the picture. I was riding a little bit tonight and carving in and out of tight turns in the grass on the Chameleon, and it felt quick and snappy as I recalled how the Stache would feel more stable and try to almost pull you back upright with a gyroscopic effect (or something like that?). Both fun, but different.

What 3.0s did you run and did you have to change the position in the dropouts to fit?

Did you notice a difference in performance regarding traction or plushness/comfort between the 3.0 and 2.8 on the bike? Or not enough to tell? I'm thinking going 3.0 for those reasons.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

The one I own, because I own it.


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## Slowandfat (Jan 4, 2020)

AdamBike said:


> Nice! Great to hear, thanks for painting the picture. I was riding a little bit tonight and carving in and out of tight turns in the grass on the Chameleon, and it felt quick and snappy as I recalled how the Stache would feel more stable and try to almost pull you back upright with a gyroscopic effect (or something like that?). Both fun, but different.
> 
> What 3.0s did you run and did you have to change the position in the dropouts to fit?
> 
> Did you notice a difference in performance regarding traction or plushness/comfort between the 3.0 and 2.8 on the bike? Or not enough to tell? I'm thinking going 3.0 for those reasons.


Hi, Adam. I noticed a slight gyroscopic effect on the Stache as well. I did have to slide my Chameleon dropouts back a little to avoid rubbing, but even then, the dropouts were still pretty short. I was running 3.0 WTB Rangers (Light/hi-grip, I think?). They worked ok, but the rear tire, especially, weeped sealant pretty badly. I switched to a DHF front, Rekon rear (both 2.8). I honestly don't think I notice much difference in comfort (could be that I'm just used to the 2.8's now), but I'm running @ 15 psi rear/12-13 psi front...even lower pressures than I ran in my Rangers (I'm 220lbs, but it works!). I DID notice an increase in traction with the new tires; the DHF is simply a much more aggressive tread, and the Rekon is surprisingly grippy on the rear. The Rekon weeps sealant too, but it's not so bad. I'm using the dual compound on both tires instead of the fancier 3C, but the dual compound rolls quite fast. I also think the 2.8's might feel a bit more precise. These are just my own takeaways. You might really dig the 3.0's on your Chameleon. I hope you find a setup you like!


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## AdamBike (Dec 11, 2015)

Slowandfat said:


> Hi, Adam. I noticed a slight gyroscopic effect on the Stache as well. I did have to slide my Chameleon dropouts back a little to avoid rubbing, but even then, the dropouts were still pretty short. I was running 3.0 WTB Rangers (Light/hi-grip, I think?). They worked ok, but the rear tire, especially, weeped sealant pretty badly. I switched to a DHF front, Rekon rear (both 2.8). I honestly don't think I notice much difference in comfort (could be that I'm just used to the 2.8's now), but I'm running @ 15 psi rear/12-13 psi front...even lower pressures than I ran in my Rangers (I'm 220lbs, but it works!). I DID notice an increase in traction with the new tires; the DHF is simply a much more aggressive tread, and the Rekon is surprisingly grippy on the rear. The Rekon weeps sealant too, but it's not so bad. I'm using the dual compound on both tires instead of the fancier 3C, but the dual compound rolls quite fast. I also think the 2.8's might feel a bit more precise. These are just my own takeaways. You might really dig the 3.0's on your Chameleon. I hope you find a setup you like!


Really helpful again, thanks for sharing all that! I've got the stock 2.8 Rekons in front and back and they work pretty well (at about 170 lbs I do get some sidewall squirm in the speedy corners at times with moderately low pressure). Thinking about inserts too for a variety of reasons. May have to consider the DHF or something like it more. I like keeping the chainstays as short as possible but sounds like it's not too bad if going 3.0 in the end since they're already short.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

GKelley said:


> The one I own, because I own it.


this


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## Pkovo (Aug 22, 2012)

Surly ICT. Makes no sense, as it's the "wrong tool for the job" in nearly every situation I use it in, but for some reason it generates the biggest grins. I use it as a trail bike, on pump tracks, on flow trails and jumps, and of course in the winter. I even occasionally use it to chase my daughter on BMX tracks.


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## OldSchoolMBer (May 25, 2013)

Fleas said:


> 2017/2018 Canfield Nimble 9. Easily the best bike I've ever had


I can't wait for my new N9 to ship. Hopefully will have it in the next couple week then heading up to Bentonville for a week in June to break it in.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

The pithy little dirt ripper of choice...









Play time has never been the same!


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