# Orbea Rise vs. Specialized Levo SL - Battle of the 36 lb. e-mtbs



## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

I know the weight savings has to come from somewhere BUT a 360 watt-hour battery with nearly twice the power of the Specialized isn't going to get you monster miles/footies per ride, 
right Francis???


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

DMFT said:


> I know the weight savings has to come from somewhere BUT a 360 watt-hour battery with nearly twice the power of the Specialized isn't going to get you monster miles/footies per ride,
> right Francis???


You'd be surprised. I definitely work a little harder on my Rise than I did on my Shuttle, but for 90% of my rides, with a blend of Eco and Trail, the built-in battery will be plenty.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

DMFT said:


> I know the weight savings has to come from somewhere BUT a 360 watt-hour battery with nearly twice the power of the Specialized isn't going to get you monster miles/footies per ride,
> right Francis???


When comparing the SL and Rise Range, the most practical way is to compare them at a similar assist level. Orbea Rise on Trail mode is just like Levo SL in Turbo mode, with a peak torque of about 35nm. In this scenario, range is about equal for the two. When using 60nm on the Rise, range is definitely lower.


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

I see Orbea also has a pretty big Range-Extender. Pricey but a must-have if you want all the power with the lighter weight bike.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

It's good to see a little competition here driving prices down. Hopefully in a year or so when the cut-throat supply issues are resolved we'll see even better prices. I'd love to get something like this, but 10 large isn't going to happen in this household soon.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

DMFT said:


> I see Orbea also has a pretty big Range-Extender. Pricey but a must-have if you want all the power with the lighter weight bike.


I really like the model of having a lightweight default setup with optional range extenders. It means you can ride the bike at the lighter weight on normal days and just carry the extra batter weight on the longer rides when you need it.


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## Loll (May 2, 2006)

Glad to hear Orbea won. The thinking of full size motor with reduced battery is superior to reduced motor + reduced battery.

It will only be a matter of time before more companies repeat this recipe. If only Trek and Pivot went this way with their latest ebike release it would have been the next hot sensation.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Loll said:


> Glad to hear Orbea won. The thinking of full size motor with reduced battery is superior to reduced motor + reduced battery.
> 
> It will only be a matter of time before more companies repeat this recipe. If only Trek and Pivot went this way with their latest ebike release it would have been the next hot sensation.


Agree, agree! Yeah this is the unfulfilled market so not sure why Trek aimed so far away with the 60mm travel bike. The Pivot too is just not timely. Hopefully both companies will have more entries this year.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Ogre said:


> I really like the model of having a lightweight default setup with optional range extenders. It means you can ride the bike at the lighter weight on normal days and just carry the extra batter weight on the longer rides when you need it.


Exactly. Modular and efficient battery systems is key since they are oh so heavy. Who wants to carry 800wh of battery on a 1 hour daily ride? My great analogy is carrying 1 gallon of water on each and every single ride. It compromises the riding experience.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

The other thing the Orbea is doing is smooth power delivery. The old systems like the E8000 kick in hard in turbo mode and those are expensive battery drain events, especially on steeps. Having a more gradual but consistent powerful delivery not only feels more natural, it also saves battery. Allow the human to help if/when they can during the acceleration process.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Really appreciate the comparison!

As a (previously) non-ebiker, I had zero interest to begin with, and the weights precluded any further thought.

Then I read about the Rise, saw the specs (normal MTB components!), figured “Why not?”, and ordered one that day. Hit the sweet spot for this very fit, non-ebiker...

My trail bike is my “fun” bike, so why not make it REALLY fun! Now to sell my very high-end Yeti SB130LR...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

waltaz said:


> Really appreciate the comparison!
> 
> As a (previously) non-ebiker, I had zero interest to begin with, and the weights precluded any further thought.
> 
> ...


Very cool to hear. How long have you owned your Rise?

Good news about the SB130 is you should get top dollar for it selling it soon. Shortages and high demand will help the cause!


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Very cool to hear. How long have you owned your Rise?
> 
> Good news about the SB130 is you should get top dollar for it selling it soon. Shortages and high demand will help the cause!


My Rise M-Team (perfect trail bike spec, tires aside) is due in on April 9th...[emoji1695]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

Francis - tested the Levo SL a couple times directly from the Specialized Experience Center in SC and it was super fun. Did 6+ laps in said fun area in 3.5hrs.

But the Rise really has me interested - better specs, custom paint job, etc. Wait times suck, but looks like Jenson has some builds in stock. Looks like you are testing the Rise build with Fox 34? How do think it would compare on our local trails in SC - especially since SL tested came with Fox 36 Grip2.


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

Francis- I was all set to purchase an SL when the Rise came out and have been torn between the two for the past couple of months. Enough so, that I passed on the first batch of M10’s that Jensen had. I currently have an M10 on order from Jensen that was moved back to the beginning of May, but I currently ride a Ripley V4, so I’m not too eager to drop 8k.

I demoed the Expert SL two months ago and ridden on the same trails as my Ripley I was super impressed at how similar it acted compared to my Ripley. I found the the SL cornered tight switchbacks as well as my Ripley and was wondering how the two bikes compare in tight switchbacks with the Rise having the longer chain stays?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

smoothmoose said:


> Francis - tested the Levo SL a couple times directly from the Specialized Experience Center in SC and it was super fun. Did 6+ laps in said fun area in 3.5hrs.
> 
> But the Rise really has me interested - better specs, custom paint job, etc. Wait times suck, but looks like Jenson has some builds in stock. Looks like you are testing the Rise build with Fox 34? How do think it would compare on our local trails in SC - especially since SL tested came with Fox 36 Grip2.


My Levo SL actually has a Fox 34. For my weight, riding style and power, it's actually fine on any of the trails here. Even took it to Toads in Tahoe and it was a non issue.

The Fox 36 is good but I really notice the Grip2 damper more as it's more supple, supportive and adjustable.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

waltaz said:


> My Rise M-Team (perfect trail bike spec, tires aside) is due in on April 9th...[emoji1695]
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Well, hell yeah!!!!

Some advice, get the new bike first before selling the old one. Some friends have been caught without a bike doing a swap and then getting unlucky with shortages. Keep us posted!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Ripbird said:


> Francis- I was all set to purchase an SL when the Rise came out and have been torn between the two for the past couple of months. Enough so, that I passed on the first batch of M10's that Jensen had. I currently have an M10 on order from Jensen that was moved back to the beginning of May, but I currently ride a Ripley V4, so I'm not too eager to drop 8k.
> 
> I demoed the Expert SL two months ago and ridden on the same trails as my Ripley I was super impressed at how similar it acted compared to my Ripley. I found the the SL cornered tight switchbacks as well as my Ripley and was wondering how the two bikes compare in tight switchbacks with the Rise having the longer chain stays?


The Rise handles switchbacks just as well. It seems to be a quicker, more supported bike at sag that changes direction well. The Rise uses a 44mm offset fork too instead of a 51mm so handling is crisp.

One thing to watch out for is the Reach. 474mm instead of 455 means a longer top tube and longer wheelbase. Thus you have to get used to that be adept at shifting your weight to move the bike around. Shift your weight forward, get the rear light and pivot that bike. Or you can opt for the smaller size if in between sizes.


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## monstertiki (Jun 1, 2009)

Loved the comparison vid and its bang on with my expert levo sl and my m10 rise. In my customized trail mode, I can get pretty good battery life, saving the turbo mode for the steep sections I estimate I can easily get 5000ft of climbing. The rise is super maneuverable and the 10mm of rear suspension the rise is lacking compared to the levo sl isn't noticeable imo. I do wish the battery level indicator was as easy to see as it is on the SL as it has you guessing how much you have left unless you pull out your phone to check. I see myself getting a garmin in the near future so I can keep track more easily.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

RickBullottaPA said:


> You'd be surprised. I definitely work a little harder on my Rise than I did on my Shuttle, but for 90% of my rides, with a blend of Eco and Trail, the built-in battery will be plenty.


Glad I came across this thread and your post. I demo'd my first emtb, a Pivot Shuttle, in St. George last fall. On the mesa top rides I found the power was way too much and delivery too jerky in Trail and Boost and actually liked it best in Eco mode. They don't really have big climbs in that area and I still preferred Eco mode even in the other riding areas with more climbing. I did have my summer/fall Tahoe legs under my belt though. I came away from it feeling that the weight of the Shuttle pretty much ruined the ride experience for me, at least in St. George, where they don't have the big climbs like we have in Tahoe to really take advantage of the power. My Ripmo AF was way more enjoyable on those same trails. This brings me to the Rise and Levo SL. Just enough power to take already strong legs much farther than before or just take the edge off but not ruin the ride experience with unnecessary weight. What other feedback or useful info would you have for someone like me, since you went from a Shuttle to a Rise? Also, does anyone know what a Rise M20 in a large weighs stock? I would upgrade it to a Lyrik Ultimate, piggyback air shock, and some 2.5 tires. I'd also be keeping my Ripmo and my son and I would share/swap between both.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

monstertiki said:


> Loved the comparison vid and its bang on with my expert levo sl and my m10 rise. In my customized trail mode, I can get pretty good battery life, saving the turbo mode for the steep sections I estimate I can easily get 5000ft of climbing. The rise is super maneuverable and the 10mm of rear suspension the rise is lacking compared to the levo sl isn't noticeable imo. I do wish the battery level indicator was as easy to see as it is on the SL as it has you guessing how much you have left unless you pull out your phone to check. I see myself getting a garmin in the near future so I can keep track more easily.


Really appreciate your first-hand experience. Yes, this video was not easy to make since it may seem anti SL but it really was our honest observation.

The SL finally has competition now and it will come forward again with a whole suite of improvements. That price though, not sure if it will ever come down.


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## monstertiki (Jun 1, 2009)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Really appreciate your first-hand experience. Yes, this video was not easy to make since it may seem anti SL but it really was our honest observation.
> 
> The SL finally has competition now and it will come forward again with a whole suite of improvements. That price though, not sure if it will ever come down.


I predict a turbo levo evo sl on the horizon with a more powerful motor and larger capacity battery... also with a higher price tag... I do like my levo sl, its just the rise I feel is better.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

monstertiki said:


> I predict a turbo levo evo sl on the horizon with a more powerful motor and larger capacity battery... also with a higher price tag... I do like my levo sl, its just the rise I feel is better.


For sure. How about a Levo Evo SL with the travel and geo of the new Stumpy Evo but with a mid size motor and a light battery and ability to add a supplemental battery like the Rise? I'd take one right now!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

sfr4dr said:


> Glad I came across this thread and your post. I demo'd my first emtb, a Pivot Shuttle, in St. George last fall. On the mesa top rides I found the power was way too much and delivery too jerky in Trail and Boost and actually liked it best in Eco mode. They don't really have big climbs in that area and I still preferred Eco mode even in the other riding areas with more climbing. I did have my summer/fall Tahoe legs under my belt though. I came away from it feeling that the weight of the Shuttle pretty much ruined the ride experience for me, at least in St. George, where they don't have the big climbs like we have in Tahoe to really take advantage of the power. My Ripmo AF was way more enjoyable on those same trails. This brings me to the Rise and Levo SL. Just enough power to take already strong legs much farther than before or just take the edge off but not ruin the ride experience with unnecessary weight. What other feedback or useful info would you have for someone like me, since you went from a Shuttle to a Rise? Also, does anyone know what a Rise M20 in a large weighs stock? I would upgrade it to a Lyrik Ultimate, piggyback air shock, and some 2.5 tires. I'd also be keeping my Ripmo and my son and I would share/swap between both.


I've tried maybe 30 ebikes now and I bought the first good one I found, the Pivot Shuttle, about 4 years ago. I've had a lot of good adventures with that bike. It's light on its feet and the first good descender where you had moments that you forgot it was an ebike. One needs to ride an ebike about 5x though to get used to the power and develop the muscle and weight shift to move the bike around. A good trick is to hold the rear brake during very tight, technical maneuvers and modulate it to move forward. That way, the motor is always engaged but there is no unexpected forward movement.

Weight is interesting as it's most noticeable when one is going slow or on very tight terrain. At 25mph, the weight of the bike usually disappears. The challenge is tight trails where there's a lot of change in direction and easy trails with small features to play with. A 50 lb bike is not at its best. So a 36 lb bike has the opportunity to shine here.

But something else is happening in ebike design. Engineers are figuring out how to make weight disappear on these ebikes. They're doing it with suspension kinematics and supporting the bike at sag. Very good suspension like X2 shocks and Grip2 help as well with supportive dampers. Finally, mullet wheelsize configuration is becoming the wheels of choice for an ebike. Big 29er plow upfront for the massive descents and 27.5 rear of stiffness, quickness and short stays to nullify all that motor and battery weight. There's a whole new crop of bikes like the SC Bullit with good suspension. And the Rise with its light weight and supportive suspension is excellent as well.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

monstertiki said:


> I predict a turbo levo evo sl on the horizon with a more powerful motor and larger capacity battery... also with a higher price tag... I do like my levo sl, its just the rise I feel is better.


Agree 1000x. I do have a Levo SL and I'm gonna ride the snot out of it this month. I'll take some cues with tuning from the Rise and get the most out of it. If I can get the Cascade link and that shock from the Stumpy EVO, I might be locked in.

I don't own the Rise and just borrow. Orbea can't afford to send me a test bike since they're so behind. 

Competition is good in this most exciting part of the market.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

sfr4dr said:


> For sure. How about a Levo Evo SL with the travel and geo of the new Stumpy Evo but with a mid size motor and a light battery and ability to add a supplemental battery like the Rise? I'd take one right now!


The current 1.1 motor has more than enough power for my purposes. I do prefer the porgressive geo of my SJ and the Rise, but the SL's geo works for me.

Blevo and the Mission Control app are big pluses.

You can have an SL Evo with some modification. No denying that it's an expensive venture though.

W/ rear extended to 155mm with the cascade link, DPX2, Pike 160mm.
39.25 pounds setup tubeless (2.6 tires) w/XT trail pedals.










It kills at Angel Fire, NM.

The 320 wh battery gets me 4000+ ft of elevation with battery to spare, and not sure if you're just not aware of the range extender, but I have 2, so the sky's the limit.

I'm a fit old guy, like to push it hard and go fast. My ratio of riding the SJ vs the SL is 2 to 1.

YMMV


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

waltaz said:


> Now to sell my very high-end Yeti SB130LR...


Don't do it! That's a sweet bike, and you might end up missing it.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

mlx john said:


> Don't do it! That's a sweet bike, and you might end up missing it.


Believe me, I'm struggling with it. I spent a lot of time last year waiting for it, and customizing it. But having a hard time justifying two almost-$10K bikes...[emoji51]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

sfr4dr said:


> Glad I came across this thread and your post. I demo'd my first emtb, a Pivot Shuttle, in St. George last fall. On the mesa top rides I found the power was way too much and delivery too jerky in Trail and Boost and actually liked it best in Eco mode. They don't really have big climbs in that area and I still preferred Eco mode even in the other riding areas with more climbing. I did have my summer/fall Tahoe legs under my belt though. I came away from it feeling that the weight of the Shuttle pretty much ruined the ride experience for me, at least in St. George, where they don't have the big climbs like we have in Tahoe to really take advantage of the power. My Ripmo AF was way more enjoyable on those same trails. This brings me to the Rise and Levo SL. Just enough power to take already strong legs much farther than before or just take the edge off but not ruin the ride experience with unnecessary weight. What other feedback or useful info would you have for someone like me, since you went from a Shuttle to a Rise? Also, does anyone know what a Rise M20 in a large weighs stock? I would upgrade it to a Lyrik Ultimate, piggyback air shock, and some 2.5 tires. I'd also be keeping my Ripmo and my son and I would share/swap between both.


Downhill performance seems a little better with the Rise vs the Shuttle, which surprised me a bit. The Rise rear end is very settled and controlled, and the lower weight is noticeable when railing turns (my Shuttle was good but had a sensation of understeer). The steering in the tight stuff also felt better and more precise/predictable on the Rise.

I did a portion of one of the more technical rides in the area (lots of rocks), and after 13 miles the battery in the Rise (despite being only 65% of the capacity of the Shuttle Gen 1's battery) was at 3 bars. That's with about 1300 feet of climbing. I was in a blend of Eco and Trail (probably 60/40) in Profile 2 (the stronger setting). The assist on the Rise felt far more natural to me. I expected that my average HR on this ride would be higher than on my Shuttle, but surprisingly it was a bit lower. I can't attribute that to the bike yet, but just another data point.

The seat tube angle is definitely steeper on the Rise so I found the ideal position for me to be back on the rails a bit - felt super comfortable there. Bottom bracket height may have been a hair lower on the Rise - one or two pedal strikes, but this place had a lot of rock gardens.

A few negatives: I wish the Rise had a full display standard - knowing battery status mid-ride is something I feel like I want, and don't want to have to get my phone out. Or if the Shimano Ride app included an Apple Watch app, I'd be good to go. The Garmin app for the Orbea Rise is buggy and doesn't show correct units on my Edge 830. Also, the EP8 rattle is for real, but not bothersome.

Suspension settings that worked best for me with a Fox Factory 36 and DPX2 were wide open compression on both ends, sag to spec, and rebound to Fox/Orbea recommendations.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Downhill performance seems a little better with the Rise vs the Shuttle, which surprised me a bit. The Rise rear end is very settled and controlled, and the lower weight is noticeable when railing turns (my Shuttle was good but had a sensation of understeer). The steering in the tight stuff also felt better and more precise/predictable on the Rise.
> 
> I did a portion of one of the more technical rides in the area (lots of rocks), and after 13 miles the battery in the Rise (despite being only 65% of the capacity of the Shuttle Gen 1's battery) was at 3 bars. That's with about 1300 feet of climbing. I was in a blend of Eco and Trail (probably 60/40) in Profile 2 (the stronger setting). The assist on the Rise felt far more natural to me. I expected that my average HR on this ride would be higher than on my Shuttle, but surprisingly it was a bit lower. I can't attribute that to the bike yet, but just another data point.
> 
> ...


This IS brilliant... and what this site is all about.

No display or decent battery indicator on the Rise is so silly. The Shimano display looks like hundreds of dollars on fleabay.

What is the wheelsize on your Shuttle? They've tried all combos and it looks like the Pivot has settled on a mullet 27.5/29. I got to try the new Shuttle at the Pivot headquarters. Heavy but quite good. Just not enough to make waves these days for that $11k price. And it looks so old with the pregnant downtube. Cocalis said he thought about doing a detuned EP8, lightweight bike but decided against it. I gave him the WTF? look.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Francis Cebedo said:


> This IS brilliant... and what this site is all about.
> 
> No display or decent battery indicator on the Rise is so silly. The Shimano display looks like hundreds of dollars on fleabay.
> 
> What is the wheelsize on your Shuttle? They've tried all combos and it looks like the Pivot has settled on a mullet 27.5/29. I got to try the new Shuttle at the Pivot headquarters. Heavy but quite good. Just not enough to make waves these days for that $11k price. And it looks so old with the pregnant downtube. Cocalis said he thought about doing a detuned EP8, lightweight bike but decided against it. I gave him the WTF? look.


I ran my Shuttle 27.5+ with a 2.6" tire in the back and a 2.8" in the front. "Psuedomullet". ;-)

One thing I really liked about the Shuttle was the weight balance. I owned an early KTM eMTB and that thing was SOOOOO nose heavy that it was terrifying to take flight on. The Shuttle felt WAAAAY more like a mountain bike. And now the Rise has really nailed that feeling with its weight, handling, balance, and power/assist profile.

Funny you mention a lightweight Pivot - I exchanged some messages with Chris after the Levo SL came out wondering if they had anything in the pipeline. I like Pivot's stuff quite a bit and have owned a few of their bikes over the years. Didn't seem that anything along those lines was coming any time soon. If and when they do make something though, you can bet that it'll be good.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

Francis Cebedo said:


> I've tried maybe 30 ebikes now and I bought the first good one I found, the Pivot Shuttle, about 4 years ago. I've had a lot of good adventures with that bike. It's light on its feet and the first good descender where you had moments that you forgot it was an ebike. One needs to ride an ebike about 5x though to get used to the power and develop the muscle and weight shift to move the bike around. A good trick is to hold the rear brake during very tight, technical maneuvers and modulate it to move forward. That way, the motor is always engaged but there is no unexpected forward movement.
> 
> Weight is interesting as it's most noticeable when one is going slow or on very tight terrain. At 25mph, the weight of the bike usually disappears. The challenge is tight trails where there's a lot of change in direction and easy trails with small features to play with. A 50 lb bike is not at its best. So a 36 lb bike has the opportunity to shine here.
> 
> But something else is happening in ebike design. Engineers are figuring out how to make weight disappear on these ebikes. They're doing it with suspension kinematics and supporting the bike at sag. Very good suspension like X2 shocks and Grip2 help as well with supportive dampers. Finally, mullet wheelsize configuration is becoming the wheels of choice for an ebike. Big 29er plow upfront for the massive descents and 27.5 rear of stiffness, quickness and short stays to nullify all that motor and battery weight. There's a whole new crop of bikes like the SC Bullit with good suspension. And the Rise with its light weight and supportive suspension is excellent as well.


Yeah, I'm not sure if you've ridden in St. George but the mesa top rides where I demo'd the Shuttle are all over rock "gooseberries" they call them. You're constantly riding up and over short steep rock rollers and ledges. The bike just felt un-natural there. The one thing I did appreciate was the power it takes to ride there, puts a lot of strain on the knees (mine aren't the best) and the assist in Eco was nice in that regard. I think a high powered bike the the Shuttle would best be served on my home rides in Truckee/Tahoe. The Levo SL or Rise would be awesome in St. George though. I really want to demo the Rise this summer.

One mentioned that I could build a customer Levo Evo SL but yeah, that'd be too pricey and still not sure about the rear shock progression (I'd want coil compatible), head angle and seat tube angle. I bet Specialized will come out with one or even more bikes like the Rise will be coming out in the next year or two.

I'll have to search this EP8 rattle. I haven't heard. Admittedly, I spend all of my time in the Ibis forum and don't research emtbs much yet. How is the rear suspension ride as far as small bump feel and plushness on the Rise vs Levo? I've demo'd a lot of regular Specialized bikes and their 4 bar is very smooth and floats over janky terrain. I've never demo'd a bike with an axle pivot.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

sfr4dr said:


> One mentioned that I could build a customer Levo Evo SL but yeah, that'd be too pricey and still not sure about the rear shock progression (I'd want coil compatible), head angle and seat tube angle. I bet Specialized will come out with one or even more bikes like the Rise will be coming out in the next year or two.


Can't do much about the geo obviously, but the cascade link increases the progression on the Levo SL by a claimed 70%. It was designed in part to help with coil shock compatibility.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Good stuff. I own a Rise M10, and I believe I paid $7999. It was the best value model, I thought in their line. I see it’s $8600 now. I have added a few pounds for pounding. Very hard for me to hang with buddies on FF. It does handle quite faster than my Decoy, but obviously will not plow as hard. On smooth flow, XC stuff the bike really excels. Still dialing in the coil and not sure I’m sold on the Cush core XC’s. They definitely have a different feel, I keep airing down till I’m almost squirming. Anyrate, coming from a fox 38, the 36 is fine, I believe a 34 would feel a little noodley for my petite 200# carcus and trails. 
I usually ride 20-25 milers and haven’tran out of battery mainly in trail mode with eco on slights and flats. My boost in Profile 2 feels like my Decoy in trail. I would really like to have the motor torqued up to 80nm just to have it there!


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Orbea is far superior in this comparison.

Nice views but wow those trails are wide open and smooth. Around here I can't understand the need for an e-bike but for out there it certainly makes some sense.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Suns_PSD said:


> Orbea is far superior in this comparison.
> 
> Nice views but wow those trails are wide open and smooth. Around here I can't understand the need for an e-bike but for out there it certainly makes some sense.


Where do you live?

Yes, we're here in Silicon Valley and we have 20 trail networks with 20%+ climbs. Not worth it on normal bike but with ebike, they all become part of the weekly routing. And can ride from home too.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

mlx john said:


> Can't do much about the geo obviously, but the cascade link increases the progression on the Levo SL by a claimed 70%. It was designed in part to help with coil shock compatibility.


For geometry, I went with a Large instead of Medium for my 5'8" stature. That gives me the 455 reach and I push the seat forward for the seat angle fix.150mm Reverb was too high when extended. I replaced it with a 180mm OneUP and I'm now dialed!!!


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Where do you live?
> 
> Yes, we're here in Silicon Valley and we have 20 trail networks with 20%+ climbs. Not worth it on normal bike but with ebike, they all become part of the weekly routing. And can ride from home too.


Austin, TX.

We have the hill country, and it's chunky as all heck, but it's very tight and windy, at least the trails I gravitate towards.

I did a trip to CO last year and after climbing a road for 90 minutes to get to the (awesome) ride down I was dreaming of an e-bike. So what doesn't make sense here certainly has it's place.


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## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

mlx john said:


> Can't do much about the geo obviously, but the cascade link increases the progression on the Levo SL by a claimed 70%. It was designed in part to help with coil shock compatibility.


My levo sl is on the more extreme side. 63.6 deg hta as a mullet with 170mm mezzer up front. Ext storia and cascade link. Hell of a mini enduro bike. Wish the sta was a bit steeper, but it's not terrible with seat slammed forward. As a full 29er, it's a bit steeper in hta and sta


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Suns_PSD said:


> Austin, TX.
> 
> We have the hill country, and it's chunky as all heck, but it's very tight and windy, at least the trails I gravitate towards.
> 
> I did a trip to CO last year and after climbing a road for 90 minutes to get to the (awesome) ride down I was dreaming of an e-bike. So what doesn't make sense here certainly has it's place.


Ahh, not ideal as you don't have the constant 2500 foot climbs.

Something to consider though is those hot days become rideable, here in the Bay area, when it's 95-100f, I can ride the E and have the trail to myself. I make my own wind and I can regulate my effort, body temp with the assist.

Also can ride to the trail more. 5+ mile traverses are a non issue. And instead of riding the same local trail loop day after day, can try many other less ideal routes or parks. Or just do twice the riding in the same amount of time.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Levo SL got a change gamer today.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Btw, a few months ago, I modified the Levo in the name of science. I got it down to 32 lbs with motor and battery. Interesting experiment.









Video: Lightest e-mtb? Sub 32 lb Levo SL complete ebike


We like the Specialized Levo SL because: it is light and nimble it has a configurable, almost unlimited range with modular batteries. it is discrete and doesn't look like an ebike power delivery is configurable and smooth virtually no drag when motor is off So in this episode, we modified...




www.mtbr.com


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## kwsvox (Jan 10, 2012)

I’ll wait for an e-gearbox bike. Figure by that time my metal hips will give out and I’ll be old enough to need it..🤣😜😳


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

kwsvox said:


> I'll wait for an e-gearbox bike. Figure by that time my metal hips will give out and I'll be old enough to need it..???


How old are you now? You know they've been thinking of lowering the age requirement for ebikes, right? 

A few have been coming out! Valeo combines an ebike motor and an automatic gearbox in one unit


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Francis Cebedo said:


> How old are you now? You know they've been thinking of lowering the age requirement for ebikes, right?
> 
> A few have been coming out! Valeo combines an ebike motor and an automatic gearbox in one unit
> View attachment 1920638
> View attachment 1920639


I don't want automatic bike. Ever.

Internal gearbox yes. Automatic? Hells no. I suspect a fair number of people feel similar.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Ahh, not ideal as you don't have the constant 2500 foot climbs.
> 
> Something to consider though is those hot days become rideable, here in the Bay area, when it's 95-100f, I can ride the E and have the trail to myself. I make my own wind and I can regulate my effort, body temp with the assist.
> 
> Also can ride to the trail more. 5+ mile traverses are a non issue. And instead of riding the same local trail loop day after day, can try many other less ideal routes or parks. Or just do twice the riding in the same amount of time.


For sure, our climbs are short and mostly rough, trails are bi-directional with often very limited site distance, and post Covid they have way more traffic. Also worth noting is that well ridden the trails are tight enough that I can usually pedal as fast as I can safely manage the trails. I really can't go any faster thru many obstacles without crashing. Suspect that this is why I see so many barely used e-bikes for sale locally, they are a poor fit for our conditions. Sure it would be nice to crush all the short rough climbs in record time. That's why I can't help but keep an eye on the market and I'll be renting them for sure on bike vacations.

Lastly, the TX law was specifically clarified statewide a couple of years ago to read that e-bikes are categorized the same as motorcycles, so if motorcycles aren't allowed on a particular trail, then neither are e-bikes. So this specifically excludes most public trails in TX. There are a few places that allow motorcycles and therefore they also allow e-bikes, but very little of the public trail systems, marked or otherwise, allows ANY motorized vehicles. Of course people are breaking the rules but thankfully it's not prolific (yet). Personally I won't ride with e-bikers on the trails where they are not legal. It's an illegal and dangerous activity that threatens our local access and frankly the safety of other people, many of whom are very small. If the law changes, well it's not my place to judge but it will greatly effect where my kid rides and certainly who rides in front.

Personally I support no motorized vehicles on our CTX public trails because I'm familiar with the TX trail systems and very poor sight lines and bi-directional nature. Motorized or not represents a good dividing line for the activities allowed imo. I would no longer be comfortable with my 9 year old daughter or 110# wife riding our trails if e-bikes became prolific, as head on collisions already happen and the number of novices has skyrocketed lately. A lot of the novices don't even take evasive action when you encounter them headfirst on a trail, they seem to be paralyzed. I'm talking bikers & e-bikers alike.

As a long time motorcyclist, e-bikes are VERY appealing to my desire to haul ass nature. But they simply aren't appropriate on OUR local public trail system.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Well, here in New Mexico, we've got mountains, lotsa miles of sweet single track legal for E-bikes. Sometimes you'll see one other biker in the space of 3 hours, or none at all.

We're fortunate.

Back on topic...
Levo SL vs Orbea Rise

Dig the TCU that displays several metrics. Sure it's got a Texas Instruments calculator from 1985 vibe, but you can put the SL in stealth mode and just use the TCU.










I imagine Orbea is probably working on some sort of display add-on.

A gratuitous shot of the bad-ass SL:


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Also can ride to the trail more. 5+ mile traverses are a non issue. And instead of riding the same local trail loop day after day, can try many other less ideal routes or parks. Or just do twice the riding in the same amount of time.


This. So many more options open up for me in my local area because of the eBike. Long moto-created climbs that are too steep for analog bikes. Riding to riding areas farther afield. Double (triple?) lapping some of my favorite local loops which are all long 1500-2500' climbs, followed by fun, long descents.

But agree with the others that have found the eBike not ideal on tighter, rockier, more technical, up and down trails like Gooseberry Mesa (and Austin TX from what I gather)..... although I did like that extra assist climbing those insanely steep slick rock repeats.

I am curious about the Levo SL and the Rise and other future bikes of this ilk. For a strong rider that just wants to go a bit further without the full weight/power of an eBike, they make sense. Eager to try one out.


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## winsail (Dec 27, 2007)

Hello Francis,
I'm excited to see your review. I wish there were 10 lightweight ebikes to choose from. That said, I feel like you have omitted the earliest legit contender to the group. The Lapierre eZesty AM Ltd came out in 2019. It has the lightest motor battery combo and you can ride it without the battery and motor. That allows you to have a frictionless non-motorized ride with your pals. Just think since you're representing a category all of the contenders should be included. Lapierre says it weighs 18.6kg. Even this bike seems confused about what it is. Add lighter tires, cassette and a Pike Ultimate or Fox 34 instead of the Fox 36 and you have a bike that completely matches the Rise and the SL. I have ridden the Specialized Turbo Levo SL Expert Carbon. It is exactly what I'll want in an ebike when I get mine at age 65. I'm 63 and a half now have ridden MTB's for over 35 years and I was never a Moto rider. My comparison is my wife at 65 bought the Norco Sight VLT C1 27.5. This is a great bike
but the differences are exactly what Francis talks about. Heavy moto down and uphill feel. Your arms get really tired on long rides (great upper body workout). The lighter bikes like the SL just feel closer by a long shot to my current non-moto pedal bike. Snappy, mid-light poppy feel. Thanks again for the great review.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Francis Cebedo said:


> One of the most intriguing segments of e-mtbs today is the Lightweight E-MTB (aka sub-40 lbs.). The first round of e-mtbs with dozens of options today is the 45-55lb bike with a lot of power and a big battery. These bikes will be the majority of the e-mtb market as riders experience the full benefit of assist and range.
> 
> But there is an underserved market of riders who don't want a 50 lb bike and all that power. They want something to bridge the gap between the big e-mtb and their current analog bike. They want something that feels more natural and closer to their current light bike. This is the market served by Specialized Levo SL introduced last year and the Orbea Rise, just becoming available in early 2021. We took a look at both models and compared them in many different aspects.
> 
> ...


Francis, I'm guessing but you should probably be getting a commision from both Orbea and Spec!


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Well got a Levo SL. Best part about my first ride is that I can hang out with my much faster riding buddies. It also rides like an MTB. So far, so good. Really looking forward to riding more.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

In the short time since this article came out, the USFS legalized a lot of the trails in my area, Specialized raised their prices AND most important of all, a new Turbo Levo came out that nearly matches the new Stumpjumper Evo and finally has modern geo, only like 3 bike generations after Transition came up with it! Better late than never I guess for this brand. So........... when will Specialized come out with an updated Levo SL with the geo, travel and progressivity of the two bikes above? We know it won't be long!


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Quick update on my Orbea Rise experience: I no longer think I'll need the range extender (and will probably sell it once it arrives). on my typical 12-15 mile rides, I usually don't consume more than 40-50% of the built-in battery. if I'm going out for an epic ride, I'll usually be on my hightower anyway. I continue to be impressed by the performance and handling of the Rise. I've had a few little glitches (loose crankarm, squealing rotors) that I resolved. I also ended up swapping out the EM-EN100 for a proper display (SC-EM800) so I can see a more accurate battery status and range (the Orbea Rise add-in for the Garmin I own never worked properly - always shows metric units)


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Quick update on my Orbea Rise experience: I no longer think I'll need the range extender (and will probably sell it once it arrives). on my typical 12-15 mile rides, I usually don't consume more than 40-50% of the built-in battery.


Thanks for the feedback. You'll want to share your riding weight and typical elevation you hit in these 12-15mile rides as well as those will have direct impact on battery life - so other people can can better correlate to their riding conditions.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

RickBullottaPA said:


> I also ended up swapping out the EM-EN100 for a proper display (SC-EM800) so I can see a more accurate battery status and range (the Orbea Rise add-in for the Garmin I own never worked properly - always shows metric units)


Can you describe this process in greater detail, and provide a link to the unit you went with?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

waltaz said:


> Can you describe this process in greater detail, and provide a link to the unit you went with?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here's the display (1 needed):

SC-EM800 (shimano.com)

Here's the adapter (1 needed):

EW-AD305 (shimano.com)

Here's the mode switch (1 needed):

SW-EM800-L (shimano.com)

Here are the cables (1 - 350mm needed and 1 - 150mm needed):

EW-SD300 (shimano.com)

The wire that comes out of the headtube is an SD50 wire (converted from SD300 inside the downtube). Connect that to the adapter. Connect the 150mm SD300 wire to that, and to the display. Connect the 350mm SD300 wire from the mode switch to the display. Go ride.

Note that the old mode switches have a built-in cable - the new one does not.

I also used these to secure the wires on the bar:

Amazon.com : Grifiti Band Joes 1.25 Inch 20 Pack Posters, Magic, Ring, Pen, Art, Cooking, Wrapping, Cord Wraps, Longer Lasting Silicone Rubber Bands Mini Small : Office Products

At some point I plan to run a longer SD300 wire from the motor to the display and eliminate the two adapters and the extra SD50 and SD300 wires, but no urgency since it all works.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Quick update on my Orbea Rise experience: I no longer think I'll need the range extender (and will probably sell it once it arrives). on my typical 12-15 mile rides, I usually don't consume more than 40-50% of the built-in battery. if I'm going out for an epic ride, I'll usually be on my hightower anyway. I continue to be impressed by the performance and handling of the Rise. I've had a few little glitches (loose crankarm, squealing rotors) that I resolved. I also ended up swapping out the EM-EN100 for a proper display (SC-EM800) so I can see a more accurate battery status and range (the Orbea Rise add-in for the Garmin I own never worked properly - always shows metric units)


Which Hightower do you have? I'd be curious to hear how the Rise rides compared to the Hightower V2, a bike I have demo'd. Mostly concerned about the Rise's suspension action, how supple/plush it is, etc. The Hightower V2 has a great solid, plush and dampened ride. You can charge through chop and rocks with it! Thanks!


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Here's the display (1 needed):
> 
> SC-EM800 (shimano.com)
> 
> ...


Thanks, man! Incredibly detailed and helpful post!

Who says MTBR is good for nothing, but old men ranting?! [emoji6][emoji23]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

sfr4dr said:


> Which Hightower do you have? I'd be curious to hear how the Rise rides compared to the Hightower V2, a bike I have demo'd. Mostly concerned about the Rise's suspension action, how supple/plush it is, etc. The Hightower V2 has a great solid, plush and dampened ride. You can charge through chop and rocks with it! Thanks!


I have a Hightower V1, but setup almost identically to my Rise (Fox Factory 36/Grip 2 up front and DPX2 rear), and I'm (now) running my Hightower as a 29er also, same tires on both. Same brakes, bar, seatpost, saddle, grips, pedals...see a pattern here? Even my suspension settings are similar, with just a couple PSI more on the Rise.

I find them very similar on the trail, but in the parking lot test the Rise appears to be a bit more plush in the rear. Doesn't seem to be much difference in real world testing though. I blast through rocks and roots on both.


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## monstertiki (Jun 1, 2009)

Updated comparison between my m10 and my carbon expert SL. Both bikes are still freaking amazing. After spending the last 4 weeks on my rise I took the SL out on the trails I ride most often, my other half has been riding the SL while Ive been having fun on the rise. I ride Santiago oaks and Aliso woods most around here, It so unbelievable how good these bikes gobble up the trails. One thing I like about the SL is its lighter weight vs the rise. I think its around a 4 pound difference but its quite noticeable. Both are setup with fox 36 150mm forks and fox dpx2s. The lighter weight makes the SL a bit more playful in the air. An example of this is the small gap drop while entering oaks right before the chutes climb. Both bikes handle the drop very easy, but the SL was easier to pop and drop where I wanted it. On the fast down hills I found the rise was more stable and I could rail harder into the california loam. However on the chunky sections, the SL felt smoother. On the up hills, the SL seemed to pedal more naturally with less resistance then the rise, especially in the lower assist modes. However the motor whine on the SL is really annoying and I feel is the bikes biggest negative. When compared to motor noise while climbing on the rise, the rise sounds much better, way less whiny. Though the ep8 rattle no the rise is definitely noticeable but you get used to it, where as the SL on the downs can be dead silent. I really want to try both these bikes on a good well built long jump line because I have a feeling they will be incredible on the jumps.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

monstertiki said:


> Updated comparison between my m10 and my carbon expert SL. Both bikes are still freaking amazing. After spending the last 4 weeks on my rise I took the SL out on the trails I ride most often, my other half has been riding the SL while Ive been having fun on the rise. I ride Santiago oaks and Aliso woods most around here, It so unbelievable how good these bikes gobble up the trails. One thing I like about the SL is its lighter weight vs the rise. I think its around a 4 pound difference but its quite noticeable. Both are setup with fox 36 150mm forks and fox dpx2s. The lighter weight makes the SL a bit more playful in the air. An example of this is the small gap drop while entering oaks right before the chutes climb. Both bikes handle the drop very easy, but the SL was easier to pop and drop where I wanted it. On the fast down hills I found the rise was more stable and I could rail harder into the california loam. However on the chunky sections, the SL felt smoother. On the up hills, the SL seemed to pedal more naturally with less resistance then the rise, especially in the lower assist modes. However the motor whine on the SL is really annoying and I feel is the bikes biggest negative. When compared to motor noise while climbing on the rise, the rise sounds much better, way less whiny. Though the ep8 rattle no the rise is definitely noticeable but you get used to it, where as the SL on the downs can be dead silent. I really want to try both these bikes on a good well built long jump line because I have a feeling they will be incredible on the jumps.


Must be a very different build - my Rise weighs in at 38.8 with pedals.


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## monstertiki (Jun 1, 2009)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Must be a very different build - my Rise weighs in at 38.8 with pedals.


changed tires to 2.5 assegai in front 2.3 eliminator grid gravity rear (prefer the trail casing but gravity is all they had in stock), 150mm lev dropper, chester pedals, and granite frame strap for spare tubes.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

monstertiki said:


> Updated comparison between my m10 and my carbon expert SL. Both bikes are still freaking amazing. After spending the last 4 weeks on my rise I took the SL out on the trails I ride most often, my other half has been riding the SL while Ive been having fun on the rise. I ride Santiago oaks and Aliso woods most around here, It so unbelievable how good these bikes gobble up the trails. One thing I like about the SL is its lighter weight vs the rise. I think its around a 4 pound difference but its quite noticeable. Both are setup with fox 36 150mm forks and fox dpx2s. The lighter weight makes the SL a bit more playful in the air. An example of this is the small gap drop while entering oaks right before the chutes climb. Both bikes handle the drop very easy, but the SL was easier to pop and drop where I wanted it. On the fast down hills I found the rise was more stable and I could rail harder into the california loam. However on the chunky sections, the SL felt smoother. On the up hills, the SL seemed to pedal more naturally with less resistance then the rise, especially in the lower assist modes. However the motor whine on the SL is really annoying and I feel is the bikes biggest negative. When compared to motor noise while climbing on the rise, the rise sounds much better, way less whiny. Though the ep8 rattle no the rise is definitely noticeable but you get used to it, where as the SL on the downs can be dead silent. I really want to try both these bikes on a good well built long jump line because I have a feeling they will be incredible on the jumps.


 Bummer the best of these two isn't combined into one bike yet. It will be. I bet money the next Levo SL will be the same geo as the new Levo but 29 front and rear, be as quiet as the Rise and still just as supple as it's always been but a bit more progressive to run a coil on more aggressive terrain. I'd take one but the price they set it at may push me somewhere else.


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## evan9r (Oct 21, 2012)

What happens when someone swaps a normal EP8 for the RS version in the Rise...


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

evan9r said:


> What happens when someone swaps a normal EP8 for the RS version in the Rise...


They lose their warranty. ;-)


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## orbea_rise (Jun 8, 2021)

hi, i'm new, i joined because of the excellent posts by Rick  (thx for the info about the Shimano Display)

yes of course you will lose your warranty if you swap motors, but u don't have to, you can also lose our warranty, and increase torque to 85nm by changing the firmware, i didn't do this myself (my bike arrives next year  but i have seen posts that talk about this.

i would avoid that at all costs, the Orbea firmware is about more than just the torque, it changes the way the power is delivered, and i'm not sure the Orbea battery can actually cope with the higher power requirements, heat etc...

anyway Francis, great site, vidéos and discussions 

now i will just have to talk about the Orbea Rise for months, to help the time go by faster
(i'm getting the LTD, raw carbon, glossy, absolutely no stickers at all anywhere, a fox 36, quad pistons, 175mm dropper

(you could say i'm getting a team with the lighter wheels and saddle)
i already have a Levo, so i'm going to use my Rise for XC, i'm going to try even lighter tyres than those Rekons. (currently thinking to use Vittoria Barzo's and Mezcal, they seem to be a good compromise between rolling resistance, weight and grip)

i dont race downhill, as my eye sight is bad, i'm more into very long distances (100km or more, sometimes over 150), so i will get two range extenders.

i think that if i hadn't ordered a heavier fork (and marginaly heavier dropper and brakes) i would have gone under 16 kilos with those tyres, i don't care much about the total weight of the bike, but gaining a couple of hundred grams on tyres matters.


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