# 32 years old and buying my first bike since I had a HARO at 15...



## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

hi all, as a surfer and snowboarder, i am looking to add to my repertoire of sports i can do when the waves are flat or the snow is gone. 

mountain biking seems like the perfect fit as i love hiking and being in the woods. 

that said, i only have a very general idea as to where to start and due to my relatively limited budget of ~$500 i have been recommended everything from a (relatively) vintage steel rigid to a brand new Trek Marlin, Giant Talon or bike from REI/Chain Reaction to a short travel full suspension bike. 

i suspect you will need to know more about me and what i plan to do on the bike. 

as mentioned, i am 32 years old, 5'11 and 195lbs. relatively athletic and can ride a surfboard, snowboard and skateboard and a bike, casually, quite well. 

i live in NY (Westchester) and NJ (Monmouth) for anyone familiar with the region. i suspect i'd be riding mostly within state parks and such but, to be frank, i don't know much about the terrain here. 

in a perfect world i'd find something new or gently used (via CL, FB, Pinkbike) that would be decent on, what i suspect, mild to moderate trails with the ability (read: won't be dreadful) to ride in even milder terrain (rolling open hills, gravel, maybe even to the beach?). 

your thoughts, insight and advice MUCH appreciated.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I always buy lightly used hard tail bikes for great prices. My bikes were originally high-end, but the geometry or drivetrains or tire width are no longer cutting edge, so the prices were very attractive. They do everything I need and are reasonably inexpensive to maintain.


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## renardsubtil (Jul 13, 2018)

As someone who recently got into biking again (I’m 41) after riding BMX bikes as a kid, I’d thought I’d throw you a few things I learned.

Start with a used hard tail. Full suspension is pricey and the for budget you’re going to be limited something very well used.
When you’re looking, consider the components used and what you plan on riding. 
Meaning, for example forget the traditional mechanical brakes, I got hydraulics and the difference is night and day on hills and technical stuff. Another example, Drivetrain - read up on what this means and determine what drivetrain will work for you and your “terrain”. I thought didn’t need to think about this and would be fine with what came on the bike but it turns out my favorite rides are very hilly so having a good drivetrain with proper gearing was clutch - a factor I didn’t think about when buying and it cost me $300+ extra later on when i could have spent the time understanding drivetrains/gearing and shopped for a bike that had the setup that I needed.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Welcome!

As it happens, I'm your same age, and also bought a Haro at about 13yrs old...

I got into mountain biking last fall, and rode for 4 months on a 2012 XC hardtail with 100mm of fork travel, 3x10 gearing, entry level hydraulic brakes, and 26in tires (it was my bike I'd used for commuting to work for 4 years).

Was it the best bike? No. Was it fun? Yes. Was the bike limiting me? Maybe kind of, but mostly it was the rider... My favorite trails on the old bike are still my favorite trails now that I have a full suspension bike.

I wouldn't get caught up in an exact bike honestly. I'd look for a used hardtail. As long as it has hydraulic disk brakes, I feel like the rest of the advancements are less noticeable. Thats not to say other things aren't valuable (dropper posts, 1x11/1x12 drivetrains, thru axles, air suspension, etc).

I have a buddy who got a XC hardtail on the east coast this last summer. I think it was a 2014 Cannondale, with hydraulic discs, 3x9 drivetrain, and 27.5 tires. I think he paid maybe $350 for it? I'd imagine you'd be able to find something like that for a similar price, and since your budget is higher, potentially something newer.

Alternatively, this is about the best deal I've seen for a new bike. Its $100 over your budget. Its got an air fork, is compatible with dropper posts if you decide to upgrade, and has modern geometry (as a VERY rough/approximate blanket statement, bikes older than ~2013 or so have a different shape. Their wheelbases were generally shorter, and their head angles were more accute, which means they are not as stable/confidence inspiring on trails).

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/vitus-nucleus-275-vr-mountain-bike-2019/rp-prod173149

Not trying to make you go over budget, just letting you know whats available. That way you can tell if a used bike is a "good" deal or not. As if its this same price, and worse... why bother.

Good luck on your search .


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

For $500, I also recommend the used market. Anything new at that price range is going to hold you back quickly. as an athletic person, you're likely to rocket past the initial learning curve that causes many to struggle. At you height, look for what might be labeled a "large" frame or 19-20". The newer the better, but an aged bike with good components will be better than a newer bike with crap components. For ride quality, I think the fork and brakes will make the biggest difference right away.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

thanks all. this guy is asking $800 for this. maybe i can haggle down a bit?

thoughts?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Keep looking for a hardtail with an air fork.


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## TheGweed (Jan 30, 2010)

therightcoastrider said:


> thanks all. this guy is asking $800 for this. maybe i can haggle down a bit?
> 
> thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 1252508


Bicycle Blue Book has that at $200 in excellent condition. 
I know some people take BBB with a grain of salt, but I doubt they'd be off by that much.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

TheGweed said:


> Bicycle Blue Book has that at $200 in excellent condition.
> I know some people take BBB with a grain of salt, but I doubt they'd be off by that much.


LOL! oops. didn't even realize there was a BBB. good to know.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Keep looking...I sold this for $400 last year and I was happy I got that.







I'm in CT


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

not having much luck here guys. maybe mtb isn't super popular in NY/NJ, but i seem to come across a lot of crap.

did find this, but it appears he has a buyer already:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/466429560809418/?ref=messenger_banner


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## Dacaur (May 20, 2019)

You just need to keep looking. Most people think their bikes are worth way more than they actually are. I looked for months for a used bike. Mostly what I saw was 10+year old bikes for 1/2+ of what they cost new. Yea ok, you paid $1200 for your bike in 2006, but that doesn't mean it's worth $800 in 2019. I'll give you $200 if it's in great shape.... For some reason the ones that replied back were all offended.....

The best deal I found was a 2001 stumpjumper for $250, and considering the tech of the day (elastomer shocks? Who thought THAT was a good idea?) It was not worth that to me....
Anything decent made in this decade seemed to made of gold based on what they were asking.

I finally decided I needed to stop wasting time looking for a great deal on a used bike, I was sitting at home when I could have been riding and getting in shape, I needed to just get out and ride, so I stopped by my LBS and picked up a specialized pitch sport for $625. Now o can start saving for a nice used FS bike, and can take my time finding a sweet deal, because I can be out riding while I'm waiting for said deal.....


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## squeakymcgillicuddy (Jan 28, 2016)

I agree a used hardtail is probably your best bet. Couple things I'd recommend:

Look for a 9 speed....that's referring to the number of gears on the rear wheel. As a rule of thumb more gears will mean a better quality drivetrain. Sometimes sellers will multiply by the number of chain rings up front but that isn't indicative of quality. 10sp would be better but likely out of your price range...8sp can be okay, especially if it's an older bike that was higher end for it's day. Avoid 7 speed.

Inspect the wheels before buying. Spin the wheels and watch for any wobbles (lateral motion) or hops (vertical). It helps to hold a finger near the rim, braced against the fork or frame, so you can see small imperfections better. A slight lateral wobble isn't cause for concern, but a big wobble (more than a few mm), multiple wobbles or a vertical hop would give me pause. Even cheap wheels are expensive if your budget is around $500. Getting compromised wheels repaired will cost money and even a job well done is likely to only delay their continued deterioration.


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> not having much luck here guys. maybe mtb isn't super popular in NY/NJ, but i seem to come across a lot of crap.
> 
> did find this, but it appears he has a buyer already:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/466429560809418/?ref=messenger_banner


I hope this helps explain why you might not see much on the used market:

I was doing the same thing last summer: ~$500 used hardtail to mess around with.

After searching and researching (learning about bikes, not searching again), and realising that an used bike that I'd want is either: being loved by the current owner and therefore not for sale or is snatched up within hours of posting (a ~$700 2017 trek roscoe 7). I saw it, thought about it, made an offer and got the news that it was sold.

So after that, I raised my budget. Since a 2018 roscoe 7 was around $1000, I figured might as well get a new bike in that category. Then I raised my budget again, because it's worth it to get the next tier (roscoe 8 for example) as it'd cost way more to get a roscoe 7 and upgrade it later.

After some shopping and resarching, I ended up with a 2018 salsa timberjack gx1.

I had a 1996 or 1997 diamondback outlook at 15. from dickssportinggoods. Finally got rid of it last spring.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

a penny for your thoughts my friends:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/712403529175251/?ref=messenger_banner


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

therightcoastrider said:


> a penny for your thoughts my friends:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/712403529175251/?ref=messenger_banner
> 
> View attachment 1254535


Might be a bit big for you and the gearing may not be low enough for steep hills, but if you don't have a bike to ride now it could be a good option while you continue to search for something you like better or something more suitable. Shoot them an offer of $130 and see if you can walk away with it for $150. Something is better than nothing while you wait for the best thing to come along.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I rode a Nashbar frame, just sold it recently. Will do to get you going. Without spending too much, a wider bar/shorter stem will make it a bit better. I think $150 is about right.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Be patient, do your homework, and you will find your bike. In 2012 I bought my first real bike, a 26" full suspension 2011 Specialized Camber Pro for like $1300. It's still one of my main bikes and I love riding it! I've upgraded almost everything including building wheels for it, I'll probably have it for another 5 years at least. 

I bet you could find something similar for half that now! My main point is to be patient, I can't remember how long it took to find that bike, I was looking at craigslist constantly. You could also widen your search area for more results.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

thanks all. definitely trying to be patient. searching a couple times a day on CL and FB.

i could offer this dude $275-300?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/290049451950549/?ref=messenger_banner


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## Rhodyman (Aug 7, 2015)

If you can't find a decent used hardtail (newer geometry) for a fair price, check this out - TLR wheels, air fork, etc. You mentioned CRC in your initial post.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/vitus-nucleus-275-vr-mountain-bike-2019/rp-prod173149


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2574536/

Not saying you should buy the bike, just example. Pinkbike to cast a wider net and maybe higher quality? Craigslist for convenience and seeing in person.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

^^Some good options!

OP, post up links to your craigslist(s), it's fun to shop bikes for other people!


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Cornfield said:


> ^^Some good options!
> 
> OP, post up links to your craigslist(s), it's fun to shop bikes for other people!


awesome. well i am in the NY area so i can hit NYC, Westchester, all of NJ and even out to PA.

been checking that and FB Marketplace!


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

this worth checking out?

SURLY Karate Monkey

https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/bik/d/brooklyn-surly-karate-monkey-large/6904248752.html


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> this worth checking out?
> 
> SURLY Karate Monkey
> 
> https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/bik/d/brooklyn-surly-karate-monkey-large/6904248752.html


Yes! Bias opinion though.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

jcd46 said:


> Yes! Bias opinion though.


the only concern is price and the fact that it's a rigid frame


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> the only concern is price and the fact that it's a rigid frame


I think it's a great deal. You can add a fork later, given my type of riding, both of my MTBs are rigid.

It's a lot of fun, unless you are hitting gnarly stuff all the time.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

I would be all over that Monkey!

It's a great base for changing up how you like. Rigid is less maintenance. + it's got "plus" wheels that'll soften the ride a bit. It's ready to roll!


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Cornfield said:


> I would be all over that Monkey!
> 
> It's a great base for changing up how you like. Rigid is less maintenance. + it's got "plus" wheels that'll soften the ride a bit. It's ready to roll!


There is a brand new one in my area (with dropbars) for the same price but SM.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> (with dropbars)


It's ruined anyway...


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Cornfield said:


> It's ruined anyway...


I figured that response.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Cornfield said:


> ^^Some good options!
> 
> OP, post up links to your craigslist(s), it's fun to shop bikes for other people!


i'm waiting... lol


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

You never posted links, just names of locations. 

Seriously tho, that Karate Monkey would suit you just fine. It is a highly versatile bike that you could keep for a long time and change as you get more into cycling. It doesn't need anything as it sits, just a rider. 

You're most likely not going to get very good suspension at your price point, unless you're very patient.

Now here I am saying screw patience and jump on that Monkey! :lol:


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Cornfield said:


> You never posted links, just names of locations.
> 
> Seriously tho, that Karate Monkey would suit you just fine. It is a highly versatile bike that you could keep for a long time and change as you get more into cycling. It doesn't need anything as it sits, just a rider.
> 
> ...


$600 a fair price?


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

also some CL links:

https://newyork.craigslist.org/

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/

https://cnj.craigslist.org/

https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/

https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/

https://newhaven.craigslist.org/

https://longisland.craigslist.org/

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Hell yes on the Monkey!

Double bias...


Forget the others and buy the Monkey. 

What are you waiting for? It's worth double. And no, you don't really need a suspension fork. 

It will be gone soon. It's even the right size.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Brooklyn? Is that the correct area? I looked before you posted the bunch of links, so some of this data is maybe a bit out of date now.

So,when I look on craigslist, and pinkbike for that area... I'm not seeing much. I'm not familiar with the mountain biking scene over there, but I could imagine there are perhaps less trails in the area, so a proportionally smaller number of decent mountain bikes for sale?

When I put in my filters that I'd use (basically, Hydraulic disk brakes, and 26, 27.5, or 29in wheels), I got almost no results on Craigslist.

I checked pinkbike, but for a bigger area, and found a few at least one that was semi-interesting.

There is a Giant Stance with some upgrades listed for $800. I know its out of your listed price range, but for a basic FS bike, it seems to be a pretty good deal. Its got a 1x drivetrain, tires that actually work in the dirt, and hydraulic disk brakes.

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2276071/

There were some XC style hardtails for ~$550-600ish... (like this one) but honestly, they were all over priced. And for that price, I'd rather have the Vitus Nucleus brand new, every day of the week.

The surley will be a good bike for you as well. I'm not really into rigid bikes, but depending on the trails you have around you, and your riding style/etc, it could be a good fit.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> $600 a fair price?


It is (don't mean to answer for Korn) but I would offer 525.00 see where he goes. That bike is so versatile, you really can't go wrong as long as it fits.

There is a full thread on the KM in the forums. I went w/a Krampus because I prefer 29er but the KM was on the list first. I just don't need to swap wheels/tires, so went 29erPlus. To top it off, its steel, which rides awesome.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

This is the first year they've made it available with a suspension fork, but you can still get it the 'real' way. (Running for cover, a lot of people put suspension on their MOnkeys).

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/karate_monkey

I'm little confused at the bottle cage bosses, it has 2 on the seat tube, rather than 3 on the downtube (inside the triangle). But it does have the increased number of bosses on the remainder of the frameset. Still worth it. But I do wonder if it is an '18. The Surly KM changed from 2017 on.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

going to check out the Monkey tonight or tomorrow. other than fit, what should i be wary of/check into?


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Rust. Remove the seat post and look into the seat tube. Check any other openings, too. But that should tell you a lot. Also look for evidence of crashes. And ask if it's been crashed. Though steel can survive much better. It's not carbon.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Nevermind on the bosses, I see now. It has them on both the down and seat tubes inside the triangle. Mine is a medium, so none on the seat tube. No room.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

therightcoastrider said:


> this worth checking out?
> 
> SURLY Karate Monkey
> 
> https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/bik/d/brooklyn-surly-karate-monkey-large/6904248752.html


I already have one and ride it all the time and I'd buy another one all day if I could get it for $600.









Get that bike NOW!! It's worth $1000-1100 assuming good mechanical condition. For $600 it could be complete crap and it's absolutely worth that.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Damn you guys got me hyped for this bike. I’m going to go look at it tomorrow. Almost want to send him a few bucks to hold it...


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

The KM and Krampus are the grown-up answers to replacing childhood BMX's. And I can't imagine a better bike for a surfer/snowboarder.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Muirenn said:


> The KM and Krampus are the grown-up answers to replacing childhood BMX's. And I can't imagine a better bike for a surfer/snowboarder.


Love mine. I rode it at a bike park two weekends ago. You'd be shocked how many people couldn't believe I was at the summit on a hardtail. Turned out to be way fun and got just as rad as the big bikes on the trails I had the balls to do.



therightcoastrider said:


> Damn you guys got me hyped for this bike. I'm going to go look at it tomorrow. Almost want to send him a few bucks to hold it...


Don't wait until tomorrow to "look" at it! Go get it now.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> also some CL links:
> 
> https://newyork.craigslist.org/
> 
> ...


The only other bike in these links (I filtered by 'mountain bike') is another rigid bike. It's a single speed, I've had one and it's a fun bike! I'd still prefer the Monkey. https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bik/d/springfield-redline-monocog-29er/6899494930.html

I'd go check this one out for myself if I lived out there!  https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/bik/d/pleasant-valley-vintage-ross-mt-hood-hi/6876200302.html

The thing about the Monkey; you could sell it for what you paid, or more, if for some reason you didn't like it.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Cornfield said:


> The only other bike in these links (I filtered by 'mountain bike') is another rigid bike. It's a single speed, I've had one and it's a fun bike! I'd still prefer the Monkey. https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bik/d/springfield-redline-monocog-29er/6899494930.html
> 
> I'd go check this one out for myself if I lived out there!  https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/bik/d/pleasant-valley-vintage-ross-mt-hood-hi/6876200302.html
> 
> The thing about the Monkey; you could sell it for what you paid, or more, if for some reason you didn't like it.


thanks man. it's between me and another buyer (who is looking tonight). if the other buyer doesn't pull the trigger, it's likely mine.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

im still looking just for fun. this Salsa Fargo 3 from 2012 is $1100. apparently due to all the high end components:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/404874106906685/


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> im still looking just for fun. this Salsa Fargo 3 from 2012 is $1100. apparently due to all the high end components:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/404874106906685/


I personally wouldn't spend $1100 on that, even with its "high end" components. Although, it doesn't look bad for a bikepacking bike, they've got that part right.

My old XC bike is also from 2012, had a MSRP of $1600 and has a full shimano XT drivetrain, and is worth like ~$350 today.

But if you're looking in the $1000 range, there are many better options for all around trail riding IMO.

Like these. The first one is actually on a decent sale. Usually $1200, right now just under $800.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/marin-nail-trail-6-29-hardtail-bike-2019/rp-prod186795

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/ragley-big-al-hardtail-bike-2019/rp-prod176554

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com...9-mountain-bike-deore-1x10-2019/rp-prod173161


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

A lot of the people that advocate used (their heart is in the right place) are in MTB nirvanas like the Mountain West, or the west coast, or NC where there are a ton of mountain bikes and a good used selection. Those of us in less MTB-centric locations get pretty slim pickins, even if we do have a fairly vital community. You may find a gem at a bargain price, but you are going to have to look at a lot of dogs in the meantime.

Unless you fear not sticking with the hobby, in which case getting something really cheap just to get you out there is a reasonable idea, the new bargain bikes in the post above are probably the way to go.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

some more sweet bikes if the SURLY doesn't work out. thoughts (i'd have to lowball on these to get them in my range):

https://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/bik/d/rye-niner-emd-9/6898780524.html

https://cnj.craigslist.org/bik/d/englishtown-trek-caliber-9-195/6892897651.html

https://cnj.craigslist.org/bik/d/watchung-specialized-fuse-comp-6fattie/6901478174.html

https://longisland.craigslist.org/bik/d/manorville-santa-cruz-superlight/6892170157.html


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

TwiceHorn said:


> A lot of the people that advocate used (their heart is in the right place) are in MTB nirvanas like the Mountain West, or the west coast, or NC where there are a ton of mountain bikes and a good used selection. Those of us in less MTB-centric locations get pretty slim pickins, even if we do have a fairly vital community. You may find a gem at a bargain price, but you are going to have to look at a lot of dogs in the meantime.
> 
> Unless you fear not sticking with the hobby, in which case getting something really cheap just to get you out there is a reasonable idea, the new bargain bikes in the post above are probably the way to go.


I live in New Mexico and perhaps I don't search hard enough, but I seldom ever find real mountain bikes for sale used at market value. The only time I have is when my friends/network are selling a bike that is a few years old and getting a new one. The used bike market (craigslist/facebook) is flooded with bike shaped objects and people thinking that a 2 year old bike is worth 90% of new. Where have you found otherwise? Is there some gem of used bikes I haven't seen? There's probably a half dozen bike models I've demoed in the last few years and if I could find any one of them, I'd pay on the high end of market value for them. I've yet to find one for sale.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

The SURLY is gone. Damn.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> some more sweet bikes if the SURLY doesn't work out. thoughts (i'd have to lowball on these to get them in my range):
> 
> https://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/bik/d/rye-niner-emd-9/6898780524.html
> 
> ...


No one wants to budge much on these. Trek seller came down to $850...

found this Niner but it's a hike

https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/275645633338350/?ref=messenger_banner


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

therightcoastrider said:


> No one wants to budge much on these. Trek seller came down to $850...
> 
> found this Niner but it's a hike
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/275645633338350/?ref=messenger_banner


The only one you posted a link to that I'd even consider is the Specialized Fuse.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

twodownzero said:


> The only one you posted a link to that I'd even consider is the Specialized Fuse.


Ya he wants $1000. Out of my range.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

therightcoastrider said:


> Ya he wants $1000. Out of my range.


Get yourself a deal on a new Diamondback. They're probably the best value you'll find.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

I hope you guys don't mind me posting all of these

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2613204295582942/


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

We don't mind you posting them, but, it does lead me to a question.

What exactly is your actual price range? 

You mentioned $500 in the first post, but then have posted for sale links to bikes ranging from $160, to $1100, and then sounded like you were seriously considering the Surly, which was listed for $800, and you were hoping to get for $600?

But then new bikes have been listed that sell for $600, $780, and $950, but they haven't appeared to catch your eye. Any particular reason those haven't interested you?

So... Just curious, what are you "actually" wanting to pay?

Based on what I've seen of your local for sale listings, the choices are pretty slim. I'm guessing mountain biking isn't quite as booming of a business in your area, so used options may be limited, at least within a reasonable distance.

As for the last bike you linked. It would be a fine bike. I'm assuming its on mechanical disks (better than rim brakes, but worse than hydraulic by a long shot), and is of course older. But as long as it was in good running condition, its likely worth $150ish or so. The fork is likely pretty awful at this point (even if it was kept in 100% prime condition, forks from that price range from 12 years ago weren't very good), and the geometry will be less confidence inspiring than a newer bike. And, if you decide you like biking, there isn't much you'll be able to upgrade on that bike.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/karate_monkey

I had copied the Karate Monkey link before I saw you posting the rigid one. Excellent bike. Too bad you missed it.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Good question about budget. Since you missed the KM, which was a no-brainer, that is worth considering. 

When I got back into cycling as an adult, I wanted a dropbar diamond frame road bike. (And still have 3). My original budget was around $500.00 ish. I ended up getting a full carbon shimano 105 Cannondale Synapse on sale at the end of the year for $1700.00. (Retail $2350). Loved that bike, but a few years later I needed something a little more racy. And there were some issues with handling I didn't like. The Synapse has changed radically since, so don't compare it to modern ones. I sold that bike for $900.00. Meaning I paid $800.00 net for the pleasure of riding it for four years. If you get a decent bike that works for you, you can either keep it forever (which would likely happen with a steel bike like a Surly, which is seriously multi-purpose and fun), or at least sell it for a decent price down the line. 

I think the lowest I've ever seen a KM listed for was $900.00 online used. And it was more than 6 years old. That monkey you missed was an aberration. I have seen some local craigslists in different regions (the Midwest) with a bunch of Krampii and KM's at better prices. Krampii tend to cost less as giant wheels are more niche. 

If you have any flexibility on the budget at all, I'd start going to bike shops and begin test-riding. Riding is much different than looking. Every bike feels different, and different riders have different needs. 

If you want to keep it as cheap as possible, the fully rigid bike that was listed for $170.00 looks like a nice starter to me. I don't think buying online is the best idea until you have a better idea of your preferences. It's not a bad idea. Just not ideal.At your height, you aren't really in between, a large with geometry similar to what you find on a KM should work. (look at stack and reach first, then effective top tube and head tube angle. show me and I can do the math to compare).


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Thoughts?

Anything wrong with this Surly Karate Monkey?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/360341748166452/


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

I can't get there from this computer. Could you post the info?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> Thoughts?
> 
> Anything wrong with this Surly Karate Monkey?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/360341748166452/


Wow another good one, with a fork. Looks clean!


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> I can't get there from this computer. Could you post the info?


Large Surly Karate Monkey for sale in Burlington on Facebook Marketplace

Large Karate Monkey hard tail frame. Rockshox Reba XX fork with remote lockout. 29" Stans ZTR flow wheels. Kenda nevegal tubeless tires. Avid Elixir hydraulic disk brakes. 32-20 single speed gearing, can convert to geared. Come with extra spare 29" parts


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Year and asking price?


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> Year and asking price?


$700 asking. I'll ask year.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

It’s a 2015 “like new” condition but set up as a single speed.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

I got it to come up on my phone. It's a good, worthy bike. 

It has a yoke at the top tube next to the seatpost, so it's an older Monkey, not sure, but before 2017, certainly. It's single speed, which is fine, but know that you won't have gears. Obviously it can be converted to gears, but that would cost money. I'm not sure about the price versus value. Depends on the condition of the fork and its age, I think. It's nice, not as overwhelming. But nice. Maybe offer closer to your budget and see what they do.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Okay. In 2015, the bike had quick release wheels instead of thru-axels. TA's are stronger, better for jumping etc. More safe. Better technology. The newer bikes are pre-drilled so you can add a dropper post. Someone correct me here, but the new monkeys are suspension corrected for a fork with more trail. (More compression). Maybe the one on it is a little much, maybe not. (Again, help here, the fork looks jacked up too high, is it the right size? ). It's possible that fork has a thru axel as it's not stock. You don't have to have these things, though. I had a 2015 Krampus that was too small for me, and I exchanged it for the '18 KM. The changes to the newer bikes are also in bike geometry, and I find the changes make the bike an overall better ride. Now--Would I buy it if I wanted a really nice bike for a good price? Probably. I'd buy a rigid fork with a TA for it, at least eventually. But it's a nice bike. If there were the possibility of finding another like the '18 you were looking at, I'd try to be patient. They are both really nice rides. I don't think you'd regret getting either. This one is not quite the great deal the other was. It's up to you, of course. You can at least go try it.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

The changes from the older Krampus to the newer one can be applied to the Karate Monkey. Take a look at this thread, especially starting with post #12.

https://forums.mtbr.com/surly/older-krampus-vs-new-krampus-1059960.html


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

I personally wouldn't get too stuck on looking for a single brand/model when you're on a tight budget. 

That other Karate Monkey was a good deal, and people told you to go for it (rightly so). But (and this isn't meant to be a slight to the Karate Monkey), there are lots of other "good" bike models out there, that people would get equally excited about.

If the older Karate Monkey came with the parts to convert back to a normal drivetrain, I might be interested, especially if you could talk them down a bit in price. Otherwise, I'd pass, especially if the geometry talk in the previous post was correct.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

ocnLogan makes valid points.

And anytime the KM is mentioned, this excitement happens. It has devotees more so than owners. 

(Cough).

Just throwing this out there: the Salsa Timberjack Deore is on sale for $1099.00, and you could get a dealer to order the exact one you want.

https://salsacycles.com/culture/timberjack_and_journeyman_new_prices_new_adventures

Also, most bike shops have law-away.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

hi all, i totally agree. i am a big proponent of buying used, especially as i dip my toes into the waters here (who knows if i will like it - though i presume i will). 

my rationale is much of the depreciation has happened and if i can snag a real deal (i.e. that other KM), i can essentially try the sport for "free". 

at any rate, circling back to the latest KM i found - the owner seems to be quite knowledgeable and said he would be happy to convert it back to geared he just doesn't have the chain (not sure what is meant by that, but he says it's cheap). 

if i can have him convert it back AND talk him to down $500 - it seems it'd be one of the better deals i have found over my past month of searching. 

thoughts?


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Could he put the original fork on it?


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> Could he put the original fork on it?


im happy to ask (why, is the fork he put on crap?)


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

If he is putting gears on, I would offer $600. That's pretty cool on his part.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

therightcoastrider said:


> im happy to ask (why, is the fork he put on crap?)


I don't know. Depends on condition. And whether it was the appropriate amount of travel for the bike. It would be better to have the original. If someone who knows more about suspension could chime in, that would be good. It's pictured. But you could ask him how much travel it has. It should be a number like 100 mm, 120 mm, or similar.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> hi all, i totally agree. i am a big proponent of buying used, especially as i dip my toes into the waters here (who knows if i will like it - though i presume i will).
> 
> my rationale is much of the depreciation has happened and if i can snag a real deal (i.e. that other KM), i can essentially try the sport for "free".
> 
> ...


I know what you mean about letting someone else pay for depreciation. Alternatively, if you can buy a new bike for a significant enough discount, that can also reduce the risk as well, in the event that you don't like the sport, and want to cash out.

I will also say, that you may be careful about going too far down in budget/quality. Sure, you won't loose much of anything if you decide to resell (its fully depreciated basically), but, IMO you're also running the risk of not liking it because of really bad equipment. I don't snowboard enough to have a good analogy, but, I mean, maybe its like sending a buddy down the mountain with bindings that come loose during the run? Maybe they wouldn't like the experience enough to give it another shot, just because of sub par equipment?

If the guy with the older Karate Monkey is willing to go down in price, and put a normal drivetrain back on it I'd say thats likely a pretty decent deal. At the least it should be pretty reliable, and give you an idea of you even like mountain biking. And if you want to later, you should be able to sell it for hopefully not too much less.

Good luck on the search .

EDIT: I did some research. The fork originally came out in 2010, and is usually 100mm of travel. It was adjustable to either 80, or 120mm internally though, so it could be any of those.

And for the record, its not a great fork, BUT, to be fair, in this price range its not like you're going to get an amazing fork. It is older than the bike though.

Same with the brakes. Avid elixer brakes are older, and... maybe not ideal. Better than rim brakes though .


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Hey guys. He said fork is 5" he thinks but I don't think he knows anything about the travel.

It looks like it could be this one: https://www.mtbr.com/product/suspension/2011-forks/rockshox/reba-xx-dual-air.html

He said the rigid fork comes with the bike as well.

He will also update drivetrain as mentioned.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Pretty sure this is the fork.

https://www.mtbr.com/product/suspension/29er-forks/rockshox/reba-xx-29.html

Its a 29'er, with remote lockout from the description. The one you linked doesn't have the lockout, and looks to be a higher end model.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

therightcoastrider said:


> i am a big proponent of buying used, especially as i dip my toes into the waters here (who knows if i will like it - though i presume i will).
> 
> my rationale is much of the depreciation has happened and if i can snag a real deal (i.e. that other KM), i can essentially try the sport for "free".


There are major risks with buying complex stuff used. Namely, that you wind up with a pile of ****. I've seen it enough on these forums, where someone made an impulse buy on something used that "looked" good for whatever reason, but had some major issues. Usually it's delayed/avoided maintenance that costs way more money than the buyer expected. I saw the other end of this working in shops for years. Customer brings in some older mtb that they've neglected for some years. Maybe it sat in a shed or maybe they rode the piss out of it while ignoring everything. The end result is that it needs a lot of stuff to get it rolling well again. The cost winds up being more than they spent on the bike new so they walk out dejected. I have no doubt that a ton of those bikes go straight onto craigslist or facebook marketplace or wherever so those people can try to get some money for a new bike, and pass their delayed maintenance costs onto someone else. When there's suspension in the equation, it's almost never seen any service whatsoever.

I've seen more than one person show up on mtbr and their first post is about a used bike they just bought that's making some noise or having some problem and it turns out after some inquiry, that they were sold a bike with a cracked frame.

Saving a few bucks on something used isn't worth getting shafted like that and losing even more money.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Just to add on to that a bit, I got a used bike and didn't really give it a full inspection. The original owner cross threaded one of the pedals and 15 miles away from home on the first ride I ripped the pedal off the crank during a hard effort. Racked my nuts on the TT/Stem and spent an hour and a half pedaling home with one leg. Followed up with a $200 bill for a new crankset. 

If you go used, definitely give it a thorough inspection.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

therightcoastrider said:


> It's a 2015 "like new" condition but set up as a single speed.


I would pass on the older KM. The geometry is dated compared to the newer one. If you're absolutely stuck on your budget, you might have to make compromises, but the older KM does not compare to the newer one.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

therightcoastrider said:


> The SURLY is gone. Damn.


Not good or bad outcome.

More objectivity and healthy skepticism in approach = better judgement.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

I've been thinking about this some today.

I think if it were *my *money, I'd either keep waiting to see what comes along, or would buy either the $600 Vitus Nucleus, or if I could swing it, the $780 Marin Nail Trail.

The Nail Trail is 40% off right now, and they still have your size. It has a real air fork, decent brakes, thru axles, and you know its not going to have anything weird happen to it right off the bat.

If you go to sell it in a year, you'll likely sell it for $600-750ish depending on condition, which really isn't that bad. I mean, around here, renting a hardtail for a single day is $65-75. So you could own it for a year for 1-2 days worth of renting. Seems a good deal to me.

BicycleBlueBook says the 2017 model in excellent condition is worth ~$550-600 (but they don't have the newer ones listed for some reason). But I'd imagine the newer model would be worth at least that much.

The vitus is lower spec in most things, but is still the best $600 mountain bike I know of. It comes with tires that actually grip dirt (not something common in low end bikes), good geometry, and an actual air fork that you can properly setup for your weight.

If you could find a ~$300 hardtail from 2012-2015 with decent brakes and was in good condition, I'd also say that could be worth it. From my looking around in your area though, they just don't seem to exist.

Good luck on the search. It can be annoying... but its also great when you finally find what you want. I'm just trying to give opinions/data to help you make the best choice for you.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

thank you all!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I agree with everything said here... Salsa Timberjack is an excellent bike. I'd certainly prefer a modern Karate Monkey over an earlier one. You can b+ the new ones and they have thru axles and better dropouts. 
Trek Roscoe is an awesome bike around 1100 bucks. Specialized Fuse is another. 
If you can stretch your budget that high, these are what I'd be looking at.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Hey guys. I'm still going to poke around and post my findings. Hope y'all don't mind...

https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/bik/d/brooklyn-niner-sir-9-mountain-bike-large/6882909596.html


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> Hey guys. I'm still going to poke around and post my findings. Hope y'all don't mind...
> 
> https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/bik/d/brooklyn-niner-sir-9-mountain-bike-large/6882909596.html


Don't know much about Niners, but steel frames are desirable, but but may be older geometry. Not a great value IMHO, kinda looks like a parts bin bike.

One of my main rides stated out as a $1200 CL find, a 29" Canfield Yelli Screamy hard-tail with a Reba XX fork (like mentioned above). It was a pretty standard build with nicer Hope hubs, and if fit me perfectly! I loved that bike!

In the last few years I've re-laced the wheels with wider rims, increased the Reba to 130mm, threw some parts at it, and then swapped everything over to a frame I purchased from a friend for $250. And that would be my current pride and joy, my Canfield Nimble-9 steel hard-tail.

Not a whole lot more than what you're currently wanting to spend. I'd say a budget of $1000-$1300'ish will buy a whole lot moar bike!


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

this just popped up

https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/bik/d/forked-river-intense-spider-275-full/6906490135.html


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Ask in the Intense subforum if it's is appropriate for an athletic beginner and whether it suits your terrain. Generally, a cross country style bike is what is recommended for your situation, and this is geared for trail, but if it's not too extreme, (meant only for going up and down steep hills and uncomfortable over more normal ground), it's probably okay. (I think it is, but I'm not positive).

And keep in mind people in the Intense forum may be really fond of their bikes, and rather biased--like the Surly people are.

https://forums.mtbr.com/intense/official-intense-spider-275-pic-info-thread-948201.html


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

That has to be some Intense spam!

That's a $2-$3000 bike!

*Just saw the seller listed at $2200 new, so maybe... If it is legit, then I'd suggest taking a look at it, could be a really fun bike.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Ask if they bought it used, since they claim to only have ridden it once. Check for issues, perhaps ask if a mechanic could look it over. But yeah. Really nice.

And move on it quickly.



Cornfield said:


> That has to be some Intense spam!
> That's a $2-$3000 bike!
> *Just saw the seller listed at $2200 new, so maybe... If it is legit, then I'd suggest taking a look at it, could be a really fun bike.


A quick google shows it's the affordable version of their really high end carbon bikes. Aluminum, which I consider a plus for a used bike. I'd be very cautious about used carbon. I think it' priced appropriately, but a good deal.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

therightcoastrider said:


> this just popped up
> 
> https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/bik/d/forked-river-intense-spider-275-full/6906490135.html


With a non-boost frame, no dropper post, and 2x10 (along with cheap suspension parts), I'd rather have a modern hardtail than that. It's probably worth something near the asking price, but if I were you, I'd keep looking for something with boost spacing, 1x11 or 12, some kind of dropper post even if it was proprietary, etc.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

For $200.00 more, you could have a new Salsa Timberjack Deore on sale. 

FYI, that bike is on my list of future hopefuls. I'd love one. Would probably get the SLX version, but Deore is good quality.


In fact, if I had to choose between the Intense and Deore Timberjack, both new and money not a factor, I'd get the Timberjack.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Muirenn said:


> A quick google shows it's the affordable version of their really high end carbon bikes. Aluminum, which I consider a plus for a used bike. I'd be very cautious about used carbon. I think it' priced appropriately, but a good deal.


Yeah, it might be one of their foundation builds, which would be perfectly adequate for the OP I'd say.



twodownzero said:


> With a non-boost frame, no dropper post, and 2x10 (along with cheap suspension parts), I'd rather have a modern hardtail than that. It's probably worth something near the asking price, but if I were you, I'd keep looking for something with boost spacing, 1x11 or 12, some kind of dropper post even if it was proprietary, etc.


Boost shmoost, it's still a great bike! My 2011 FS has a straight steerer, no boost or dropper, and I'm ok with that!

I'd maybe see if the seller would come down a bit. It's still got the reflectors and dork disk on it, lol!


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

I will say that as a former BMXer, you would probably appreciate and use a dropper post more than most. Full suspension? Not so much.

Here is an explanation for dropper posts:

https://www.bikeexchange.com/blog/buyers-guide-to-mountain-bike-dropper-seatposts


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

As a former snowboarder, skater, and having also owned a Haro when I was 15 (I did the flatland trick stuff), getting a bike to test the waters is what's important here, and that Intense is just as good for that as any of the other bikes posted so far, maybe better. I went with a FS bike after my 30yr hiatus and I still enjoy it very much, I couldn't care less that it's "obsolete", lol!

A KS lever actuated dropper can be had for cheap, I've had one in my cart at amazon for almost a year now, but haven't really felt like I needed it.

*The only concern I would have about a FS is if the OP would benefit from suspension on his terrain. I could be "too much bike".


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2578315/

KM in New York.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Muirenn said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2578315/
> 
> KM in New York.


Dang, he musta been watching this thread, lol!


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Cornfield said:


> Dang, he musta been watching this thread, lol!


KM is still the bomb! He probably is.

One bike to rule them all, one bike to bind them...


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Kona Big Unit Single Speed in WV. $350.00

Not sure if this bike has a derailleur hanger for gears, but there are ways around that. And the price is sweet.

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2575502/

Note: I can't tell if this is a full, or partial build. Hmm.

Darn, sorry about that, it's a frame, and vague about what comes with it. But a Unit X (with gears) or just SS version would be a solid bike. And cost-effective.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Muirenn said:


> Kona Big Unit Single Speed in WV. $350.00
> 
> Not sure if this bike has a derailleur hanger for gears, but there are ways around that. And the price is sweet.
> 
> ...


Mine is geared and I love it!


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Cornfield said:


> Boost shmoost, it's still a great bike! My 2011 FS has a straight steerer, no boost or dropper, and I'm ok with that!


I don't think boost (or even tapered steerers) really matter, but the industry left non-boost behind. That means that you cannot get new parts for it and limits your ability to upgrade it or even repair it if it breaks. That is a significant consideration when looking at a used bike.

If I owned a bike like this, I would keep riding it, but I would not buy one unless the price was so low I couldn't turn it away. On the used market, for me, non-boost frames, forks, and hubs are worth $0. The remainder of the parts, to the extent they use a standard that still exists, are valuable and can be transferred to something else if something were to break and render the bike unridable.

There's nothing wrong with obsolete standards if the money invested in the bike is so low that the breakage of something that cannot be replaced is disposable. A $200 complete mountain bike where everything works is a low risk proposition; even if one got a year out of that and scrapped it, that's no big deal. Spending 4-5x that on something that can't be effectively repaired is not wise. Yes, there are plenty of vintage parts available now, but that's not going to last long. And in 2-3 years, even front derailleurs and shifters for mtbs are going to look like dinosaurs (which really is a shame, because there are purposes for which the increased range is useful).


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

twodownzero said:


> I don't think boost (or even tapered steerers) really matter, but the industry left non-boost behind. That means that you cannot get new parts for it and limits your ability to upgrade it or even repair it if it breaks. That is a significant consideration when looking at a used bike.
> 
> If I owned a bike like this, I would keep riding it, but I would not buy one unless the price was so low I couldn't turn it away. On the used market, for me, non-boost frames, forks, and hubs are worth $0. The remainder of the parts, to the extent they use a standard that still exists, are valuable and can be transferred to something else if something were to break and render the bike unridable.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with obsolete standards if the money invested in the bike is so low that the breakage of something that cannot be replaced is disposable. A $200 complete mountain bike where everything works is a low risk proposition; even if one got a year out of that and scrapped it, that's no big deal. Spending 4-5x that on something that can't be effectively repaired is not wise. Yes, there are plenty of vintage parts available now, but that's not going to last long. And in 2-3 years, even front derailleurs and shifters for mtbs are going to look like dinosaurs (which really is a shame, because there are purposes for which the increased range is useful).


This is an excellent point. I have an 09 Stumpjumper 29er FS frame in my basement and my son asked if I would build it up for him. I said if I can locate a fork, then ok. 
I found ONE straight steerer air fork and as an added bonus, it has a thru axle. The rest of the bike is going to get a 1x11 drivetrain, SLX brakes and whatever the fattest tires are I can stuff into it. Probably 2.4. 
I know if he breaks any part of the frame it's game over for this thing. I guess I can utilize the fork on another bike by using a big crown race. 
The plan is to let him have fun with it until he can't.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Cornfield said:


> Dang, he musta been watching this thread, lol!


That's the dude I was going to meet for $600. Ugh.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Scott 970 posted today...

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1035788019952812/


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Another KM popped up. Granted it's an older one...

https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/bik/d/lynbrook-surly-karate-monkey-ops-2014/6908383904.html


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

as i continue my search, i am curious. is there any reason not to grab an older, fully rigid steel Specialized, Trek, etc. from the mid to late 90's for a song?

they seem to pop up pretty often around me and it might not be a bad way to take a crack at it without dropping $. 

thoughts appreciated.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

therightcoastrider said:


> as i continue my search, i am curious. is there any reason not to grab an older, fully rigid steel Specialized, Trek, etc. from the mid to late 90's for a song?
> 
> they seem to pop up pretty often around me and it might not be a bad way to take a crack at it without dropping $.
> 
> thoughts appreciated.


Honestly, if I bought that kind of bike, it would be more for pavement, gravel, utility riding, and not so much mtb riding.

They are fine for what they are, but I simply don't enjoy them for singletrack so much.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

By looking at your CL yesterday, you have very few choices in your area, seemed that way at least.

Let's say you hate riding, you can sell that Pine Mtn very quickly, and the way it's priced, probably break even.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

You could call around to local shops and see if anyone has a large KM in stock. Just to test-ride.

Then you'd be a Surly owner by nightfall. 



The Pine Mountain is sweet, though.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> You could call around to local shops and see if anyone has a large KM in stock. Just to test-ride.
> 
> Then you'd be a Surly owner by nightfall.
> 
> ...


PM > Vitus Nucleus?


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

oops


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

That has to be preference, I'd think. One thing is certain, the size larges will sell out if you wait too long.

*I'm not sure if you mean costs more, or is better than.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Let's try this again, wasn't all that familiar with the Vitus. No, it has an altus drivetrain and a suntour fork. For 600 dollars, I'd pass.

The various Nail Trails are good deals. Especially the one on sale for just over $1K, but the ones in the $700 range are good too.

I'd never buy that vitus over the PM. Not even close.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/marin-nail-trail-7-27-5-hardtail-bike-2018/rp-prod186796

R Revelation SLX drivetrain

This one is good, too. RS Revelation and NX drivetrain. 
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/marin-nail-trail-6-27-5-hardtail-bike-2019/rp-prod186794

The 6 is available n 27.5 an 29. Not sure about the 7.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

therightcoastrider said:


> as i continue my search, i am curious. is there any reason not to grab an older, fully rigid steel Specialized, Trek, etc. from the mid to late 90's for a song?
> 
> they seem to pop up pretty often around me and it might not be a bad way to take a crack at it without dropping $.
> 
> thoughts appreciated.


There are no new suspension forks available for them and their geometry makes you feel like they want to throw you over the bars as soon as you go downhill. Their tire selection is limited and there are few or no new wheelsets available. If they break, you're stuck looking for used parts. Sound like a good ownership experience?


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Yeah, the Nail Trails are the clear standout in value here. They are just a bit over the budget listed by the OP, which isn't ideal. If he can stretch that budget, thats exactly what I'd recommend

The Nucleus isn't great, but imo its better value than any other $600 bike that I know of. Suntour makes respectable products, and at least its an air fork, over the coils that come with most other low end bikes. The drivetrain isn't great though, this is true.

Do you have a different favorite in the $600 or less category for new bikes? The Nucleus is the one I usually do if they're asking new, but if there is something with better value, I'd love to know what it is.

And, like you, it just seems that used doesn't look like a reliable source. The market there just isn't as strong as it is in some places. So it seems the smart play in this instance is to find a high value new bike, one that he could sell easily after for not much less than he bought it for.

And OP, unless those older rigid bikes from the 90's are basically (or actually) free AND in great working condition, I would avoid them.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

He is looking at the Pine Mountain, which is certainly modeled after the Karate Monkey and much cheaper. That is a great deal. Less than $600.00.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

you guys annoyed with me yet? (sorry)

2017 Kona Blast in "excellent condition"

worth a look for $550?










Frame Material: Kona Race Light 6061 Aluminum
Wheel Size: 27.5
Wheels: WTB SX23
Front Suspension: 100mm
Fork: RockShox 30 Silver TK 100mm
Crankset: Shimano Alivio
Drivetrain: Shimano Altus/Deore 9spd
Cockpit: Kona XC/BC Riser bar and XC stem, Kona Race Light grips
Brakes: Shimano Hydraulic Disc
Front Tire: Maxxis Ardent 27.5x2.25"
Rear Tire: Maxxis Crossmark 27.5x2.1"
Saddle: Kona XC


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> you guys annoyed with me yet? (sorry)


not so much annoyed, but more like, "you could have been out riding already"

Granted, the search, the hunt, and the promised of finding a gem is fun in itself.

But it reminds me of this clip:






it's fun, but at some point, I'd just want to go out and ride.

secondly, i don't know if you have had a chance to visit any of your local bike shops. As much as the internet can tell you about what is theoretically the best bike, you local bike shop can tell you what people really ride around where you live. They can tell you what is too much bike for the terrain and what is too little.

Also, you didn't mention about your "garage habits". are you someone who tinkers or are you someone that shrugs and goes, "i don't know how to fix this". because this will also determine the condition of the used bike to get.

that latest kona for example, do you see yourself wanting to convert it to 1x, or to tubeless, or install a dropper?

also, check out daily mtb rider's youtube about the brand new nishiki he bought from dick's for $400. and after a few months of trail riding the bike is deemed not worth to fix. there's clips of what type of trails they rode on, you can if you see yourself riding similar trails.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> you guys annoyed with me yet? (sorry)
> 
> 2017 Kona Blast in "excellent condition"
> 
> ...


Same boat. Not annoyed, the bikes just seem to be kind of all over the place in style, and while patience is a virtue when finding a deal, you likely are missing a good bit of the best season of riding.

That Kona is very similar to what I was saying to try to look for in a used bike from ~2014-2018ish. The problem was I was hoping you'd find one that was ~$350. At $550, I'd personally rather get the vitus. Other than that though, I'd say its a good option, particularly if you can talk them down at all. Bicyclebluebook says its worth ~$450 or so, and I'd say its likely worth that, providing of course its the right size and is in good mechanical condition.

Basically, this is an entry level XC hardtail. Its got the same Altus drivetrain as the Vitus, but with a coil sprung fork (where the Vitus has an air fork). I also doubt that the bike has the option to add an internally routed dropper post. The geo is actually better than I thought it would be (68.5 hta, 74 sta), and it actually has a 180mm front rotor though, so those are both pleasant surprises.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2537155/

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2438197/

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2488459/

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2584545/

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2583009/

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

^^^ awesome choices. Nice job!


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

appreciate all the patience and recognize i am a bit all over the place. i think i am either looking for something like the Surly KM (i have become enamored after missing out on that last one). or a basic XC hardtail. 

i also keep telling myself that i have time as i can't really ride during the week and if i find something locally it'll be an easy pick up. i am also a bit of a bargain hunter by nature.

are shops worth checking out or is their used inventory usually overpriced and/or older stuff?

i reached back out about that Kona Blast and told them i am interested but not at $550.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

You should probably test ride a KM, and a bike similar to the vitus locally. See which you like best. Then order either the Pine Mountain, or the vitus. But it need to be an aluminum with air fork, and altus drivetrain. That is not nearly as good as Deore, and you may get a false sense.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

therightcoastrider said:


> appreciate all the patience and recognize i am a bit all over the place. i think i am either looking for something like the Surly KM (i have become enamored after missing out on that last one). or a basic XC hardtail.
> 
> i also keep telling myself that i have time as i can't really ride during the week and if i find something locally it'll be an easy pick up. i am also a bit of a bargain hunter by nature.


In your shoes, I'd just get a bike that was in good shape with reasonably good components and ride it. It will give you a sense of what you like and dislike and allow you to watch for the next better deal. Buy a good deal when you find it and then ride both for a while. Sell the one you don't like and then look for the next good deal. Always having at least one bike allows me to keep riding while watching for deals, and also allows me the luxury of buying and trying different bikes. I've never sold a bike for less than I paid for it, so I usually have a bit of a slush fund for buying a good deal when I come across it.

In the past 12 months I've put 1300 miles on a steel XC hardtail I picked up last spring for $300. It originally retailed for $2100 in 2008, so it is a decent bike. While I typically only buy bikes with XT / X9 level or above compnentry, I am not picky about geometry, suspension travel, number of gears, etc. For me, riding is more about the experience than the equipment.

Like you, I am a bargain hunter and always have my eyes open for a deal. Unlike you, I already have bikes to ride while watching for a deal. 
Don't get analysis paralysis and miss the season. Whatever you get doesn't have to be perfect to get you out there because it will almost certainly not be your last bike.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

therightcoastrider said:


> are shops worth checking out or is their used inventory usually overpriced and/or older stuff?


Most bike shops won't touch used stuff. It's more or less impossible for a shop to be profitable off of that sort of thing. Customers usually won't sell at a price that lets a shop take its usual markup, and used bikes usually don't move quickly enough for them to justify them taking up space from something that moves more quickly and at a higher margin. Most shops I know that handle used bikes at all are usually dumping them on ebay or similar so they can move them faster. And usually, those bikes are bikes that have been abandoned at the shop or they are new bikes that for one reason or another, haven't sold for an excessively long time (shop stocked a super high end bike to generate interest, but don't have the sorts of customers who would actually spend that much, or the shop over-bought during the year, or it's a hideous color, or it's an extreme size, or similar).

One good way to find a deal from a shop is to look for shops clearing out their rental fleets. That can happen whenever. Shops near me seem to wait to sell the older ones off until they're more likely to sell (springtime), though it seems some folks see this happen in their area in the fall.

If you see something new or otherwise in-demand that you want, don't expect much of a deal, if any. It's not overpriced if they can pass on your bargain-hunting and count on someone else buying it at full price.

An exception are bike co-op type shops. They're usually nonprofits and don't need the same sorts of margins to keep the lights on. They typically deal mostly in used stuff in order to fundraise for some other project that they do.


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> are shops worth checking out or is their used inventory usually overpriced and/or older stuff?


when i was searching, the shops didn't really have a large used inventory, if at all. i don't know if it was a market thing or what. and when a store did have a used/returned/whatever bike on their floor it was overpriced not in the sense that it was unfairly overpriced (At least i dont know), but it was more like a $8000 bike marked down to $x000.

But your local shop is a good place to chat, and get a sense of the bikes that people like or don't like for where you are. and every shop I went to was very quick to pull out a bike so I can test ride it. you could use that opportunity to figure out fit and components. test a bike with nice parts and one with the cheapest parts and see if you are okay with the cheap ones. sometimes the top-of-the-line parts of yesterday is the bottom-end parts on today's budget bike.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

jcd46 said:


> ^^^ awesome choices. Nice job!


Out of those I'd rank top 3 as Ventana, Banshee, Rockhopper

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

well i have made up my mind. i want a Surly KM.

this one is $800 but would probably require me paying shipping...










asking for more deets now.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

It’s nice. It is an older one, though.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Finally got sick of combing through garbage and bought the 2019 Marin Pine Mountain from Chain Reaction. $650 including shipping.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com...rPW7QiiMIrnYr0bRs6-_iq_0CUiZJNq0aAoDPEALw_wcB


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> Finally got sick of combing through garbage and bought the 2019 Marin Pine Mountain from Chain Reaction. $650 including shipping.


Well, you can't say you didn't do your homework.  Congrats! You made the right decision, except you could've been riding for over 2 weeks by now LOL

Enjoy and pix of the bike, when it arrives and in the wild! Enjoy! Nothing like a shiny new bike that is YOURS. Used is great when you know what you are buying, and you find those great deals out there. Starting out, I think new is best.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

solid choice. steel for a hardtail is the right choice, IMO.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I just suggested that same bike to a friend after seeing it posted here. Let us know how you like it.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

jcd46 said:


> Well, you can't say you didn't do your homework.  Congrats! You made the right decision, except you could've been riding for over 2 weeks by now LOL


It took me 3 years to figure out which frameset to buy when I needed to replace the Krampus. This is nothing!


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> Finally got sick of combing through garbage and bought the 2019 Marin Pine Mountain from Chain Reaction. $650 including shipping.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

therightcoastrider said:


> Finally got sick of combing through garbage and bought the 2019 Marin Pine Mountain from Chain Reaction. $650 including shipping.


I bet you're going to love that machine, but is a fork in the budget? Fortunately the frame is boost/tapered steerer so just about any modern fork will work. Is the front a through axle? I can't tell from the photos.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

twodownzero said:


> I bet you're going to love that machine, but is a fork in the budget? Fortunately the frame is boost/tapered steerer so just about any modern fork will work. Is the front a through axle? I can't tell from the photos.


The front is TA, rear may be QR (as far as I can tell). Rear might be a cam release TA, but a lot of the bikes at this level do this combination to save costs while keeping the technology level higher for the money. One example is the Timberjack Deore.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

twodownzero said:


> I bet you're going to love that machine, but is a fork in the budget? Fortunately the frame is boost/tapered steerer so just about any modern fork will work. Is the front a through axle? I can't tell from the photos.


Not sure on your second question but I'm definitely interested in getting a fork at some point.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

https://www.bikeattack.com/marin-pine-mountain-2019/

Front hub is 110 mm. So, TA. Rear is not, according to Harold. (Thanks, always wondered).


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

therightcoastrider said:


> Finally got sick of combing through garbage and bought the 2019 Marin Pine Mountain from Chain Reaction. $650 including shipping.


I've been tempted by one of theses myself. Congrats.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

therightcoastrider said:


> Finally got sick of combing through garbage and bought the 2019 Marin Pine Mountain from Chain Reaction. $650 including shipping.


Congrats on the new bike, looks like a solid choice.

Process you took to get here will help you down the road for future purchases.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

That's a boost hub with qr ends.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Muirenn said:


> https://www.bikeattack.com/marin-pine-mountain-2019/
> 
> Scroll, it says both axels are boost compatible. I think that means either work. I do know the front is a TA.
> 
> ETA: Rear is 141 mm. I think that means TA.


148 is TA. 141 is QR.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks, that always confused me, before.

It says the front is 110, and on the website it says TA. Sound correct?



Harold said:


> 148 is TA. 141 is QR.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Muirenn said:


> Thanks, that always confused me, before.
> 
> It says the front is 110, and on the website it says TA. Sound correct?


Easy way to remember is that the QR version of ANY hub is 7mm narrower than the same hub with a TA.

I've never seen a 110 QR, but I wouldn't put it past some manufacturer to produce one.

On a hardtail, TA on the fork is smart, but TA on the rear isn't nearly as important. On full suspension bikes, I refuse to compromise on having TA front AND rear.

The irritating thing about 141 QR is the lack of aftermarket ANYTHING. End cap hubs are easy, since the hub manufacturer doesn't have to do anything except change the end caps. But it's damn near impossible to find replacement QRs that'll fit. Let alone a little upgrade to a 10mm RWS or other thru-bolt.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/skewers/quick-release-skewers/

These have a 140-145 option. Excellent skewers.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

well...after all that, i guess it was inevitable something like this would happen (LOL!)

_I'm contacting you regarding your recent order 6237716914.

Unfortunately our assembly team have discovered some paint chips on the bike, as this is the last bike in stock we are unable to offer a replacement, therefore if you would like to keep the bike we would be happy to offer a discount of £30 in the form of gift vouchers.

I have attached images of the damage to this email, if this is un suitable we can have the order cancelled and refunded back to your original payment method.

Please advise how you would like to proceed._




























could use everyone's thoughts here. is this not a big deal? should i proceed?

aesthetically, i don't mind much. but not sure if this will lead to rust, etc. down the line.

additionally, i'd much prefer they just refund me the difference, not give me credit.

thanks!


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

I can’t view the pictures on my phone, at the moment. But ask if they can give you the Marin Nail Trail for the same price if you decide not to get the PM. I forget which model it is, 6 or 7, but whichever was 778. Worth a shot. And yeah. Why not cash?


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> I can't view the pictures on my phone, at the moment. But ask if they can give you the Marin Nail Trail for the same price if you decide not to get the PM. I forget which model it is, 6 or 7, but whichever was 778. Worth a shot. And yeah. Why not cash?


just asked about Nail Trail (i assume that is a "better" bike - it's the 6).

also, weird. i can't see the photos on mobile either.

here they are:


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

i also saw this on Reddit, for whatever it's worth:

Dear Valued Customer,

As you may be aware, Performance Bicycle declared bankruptcy in November of 2018. Marin was the top selling bicycle brand in their stores, and there was significant inventory in both their retail stores and their warehouses at the time of their falure.

The bulk of their inventory was sold off in store liquidation sales, conducted from December 2018 through February 2019. However, there was also significant inventory left in their warehouse, which the bankruptcy court held back from the liquidations. These retained assets, along with the other physical and intellectual properties, were sold off by the court appointed auctioneers.

The inventory, together with most of the IP, was purchased by Advanced Holdings, and Tiger Capital group, which together formed a new company called "Bike Co.". Bike Co. then brokered a deal to sell off the remaining stock of Marin bikes to the UK-based online retailer Chain Reaction Cycles, without any notification to Marin Bikes.

We take this grey market resale of our brand very seriously, and explored any options to reacquire the bikes.
• Through our group, we made a good faith effort to purchase the bicycles back from CRC, but were unsuccessful in interesting CRC in selling them back to us.
• We explored any options available to enforce our trademark rights to stop their sales. Unfortunately, US bankruptcy laws are designed to repay creditors where possible, and specifically disallow enforcement of trademark rights on auctioned assets.

We realize that this will have an impact in our market, and we deeply regret it. The presence of Marin on CRC's online store is not of our choosing. Marin was never paid by Performance Bicycle for these bikes, and did not sell them to CRC.

Since these bicycles are not being sold through our authorized dealer network, they will not be covered by the Marin warranty. If you are requested to deliver warranty service to a consumer who bought these bikes through CRC, you may notify them that the seller they bought from is not authorized by Marin, and the bikes sold by them are therefore are not covered. If they have questions about this, you may refer them to us at [email protected].

Marin stands behind its products, when assembled and delivered by an authorized dealer. We realize that this may cause some disappointment for a consumer that purchased one of these bikes, but we feel it is better to protect our distribution policies, in spite of the risk of disappointing a consumer.

Again, we sincerely apologize for this situation. It is unfortunately beyond our control, and we regret it deeply.

If you have any quesitons about this, please feel free to contact myself, or Sean Walters.

Respectfully,

Matt VanEnkevort CEO Marin Mountain Bikes, Inc [email protected]

Sean Walters VP of Business Development [email protected]


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

I can't tell from the photos, so I'll let someone else chime in. 

Interesting about the bikes. I first saw the PM on Performance, before they declared bankruptsy. 

Maybe...you could contact Marin, and ask if you can get a new one from them, at a reduced price. Getting complicated.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> I can't tell from the photos, so I'll let someone else chime in.
> 
> Interesting about the bikes. I first saw the PM on Performance, before they declared bankruptsy.
> 
> Maybe...you could contact Marin, and ask if you can get a new one from them, at a reduced price. Getting complicated.


just emailed Marin and received this response from Chain Reaction:

_Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately we will be unable to offer the Marin Nail Trial Bike for the same price, please advise if you would like to accept the gift vouchers or have the bike refunded.

I look forward to hearing from you._


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

It's basically a used Marin with no warranty. I don't know if it's worth it to you. 

Back up for a second. Can you find a new Karate Monkey to test ride? And Perhaps a new PM? I can't belive you won't have access in your area. It's not like you live in the boonies. (Well, Surlys do well in the boonies). 

Real question, can you afford a Karate MOnkey if you try one and decide you really like it? I understand you are thrifty, but the KM is a thrifty bike, even new.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Get yourself a krampus. You can thank me later. It will have through axles and be ready for whatever you want to attach to it later. You're missing out on some great riding by worrying about this. You won't find a better trail hardtail than a Krampus with the right fork.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

twodownzero said:


> Get yourself a krampus. You can thank me later. It will have through axles and be ready for whatever you want to attach to it later. You're missing out on some great riding by worrying about this. You won't find a better trail hardtail than a Krampus with the right fork.


To be fair, this issue just came out of left field this morning.

Also Surly bikes are 2x as $.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

therightcoastrider said:


> To be fair, this issue just came out of left field this morning.
> 
> Also Surly bikes are 2x as $.


As an initial matter, you could say I'm familiar with what Surly bikes cost and the value they offer; I have three of them! I started with a Disc Trucker, then the Ice Cream Truck, and finally the Karate Monkey. I have spent the most time on the DT, including two brevets, commutes, gravel, etc., but in total I have literally thousands of miles on Surly bicycles. I didn't mean to become a Surly fanboy either, but these bikes have provided me very reliable service.

I don't want to sound insensitive, as I know it's hard to put out your hard-earned cash. But allow me to explain to you why you should look at this a little differently.

The purchase price of a bike is, in lump sum, a lot of money. But bicycles last a LONG time. Even if you only kept a $1500 bike for 5 years and scrapped it at the end, you'd spend a dollar a day. Think about that. How much time would you spend deciding if you were willing to expend a dollar today to go on a nice bike ride. It's a no brainer, right? If I had 2 hours a day to be on my bikes, I'd be on them every day. And this assumes the bike is worthless after 5 years--quite unrealistic in a world where you were willing to pay 1/3-1/2 of new MSRP for bikes 5-6 years old, even with dated geometry. In reality, the number is way less than $1 a day. The marginal cost difference between a $500 and $1500 bike is absolutely nothing when you think about how long that cost is spread over. It's like buying a car with no power windows. You might save $200 right now, but if you keep a car long enough, leaning over to roll down the window is more than worth the $200 when you realize what a hassle that is not to have it. In short, a bike is a durable good. It's more like buying a refrigerator than a a roll of paper towels. It may not have the life of a car, refrigerator, washing machine, etc., but like these purchases, even major increases in cost for features that increase enjoyment create a lot of satisfaction over time.

The other thing you should consider is what it'll cost you to travel to enjoy new places on your bike. I'm sure there's guys here who either live in bike Mecca or just enjoy their home trails so much that this cost is small for them, but for me one of the primary things I enjoy about this hobby is seeing new places/terrain. It costs me $3-600 every time I travel to Arizona, Colorado, Utah, etc. to ride. That $3-600 is gone at the end of a long weekend. If foregoing 1 or 2 of these trips allowed me to have a bike that gave me more smiles per ride, I would gladly do it.

When you're staring down a bermed turn or bombing down a chunky section, in that moment, what would you pay for a little more traction or a bit stronger brake when you need to scrub some speed?

Call it passion. You're about 3 months away from financing an utterly irresponsible bike purchase, so why not just do it now?


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

Instead of selling back Marin stock to Marin, Performance cut a deal with CRC which enabled CRC to purchase bikes below wholesale. This would not be an issue if CRC was not permitted to sell these bikes in USA. The issue is that bikes shops, many of which are mom & pop shops, which carry Marin in the US, are stuck holding onto stock. Marin tried to purchase their stock back from CRC in order to protect their clients in the US, but as you read, CRC said f you.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Boulder Pilot said:


> Instead of selling back Marin stock to Marin, Performance cut a deal with CRC which enabled CRC to purchase bikes below wholesale. This would not be an issue if CRC was not permitted to sell these bikes in USA. The issue is that bikes shops, many of which are mom & pop shops, which carry Marin in the US, are stuck holding onto stock. Marin tried to purchase their stock back from CRC in order to protect their clients in the US, but as you read, CRC said f you.


That was my reading, too. I think I'll stay away from CRC in the future.

These guys carry both Marin and Surly and are located in Brooklyn. And who knows, maybe you can find a sale.

718 Cyclery


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

I requested a refund from CRC and got in touch with the VP of Business Development at Marin who wants me to give him a call.

More to come.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

therightcoastrider said:


> I requested a refund from CRC and got in touch with the VP of Business Development at Marin who wants me to give him a call.
> 
> More to come.


Interesting.

I do tend to agree with twodownzero on the cost. Spreading the cost of a nice bike out over a bunch of years that you're likely to own/ride it really spreads the cost out. And I've probably spent at least as much on expenses related to traveling to ride as I have on any single bike I own. Yeah, that includes big cross-country trips, but I'd say it also includes relatively short day trips, too. Oh, and then there's the camper I bought a couple years ago to make weekend trips a little more comfortable.

TBH, I've spent more on coffee, beer, and eating out as I have on my bikes. And I've spent tens of thousands of dollars on bikes in the past 20yrs.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

wow, so very interesting. i just got off the phone with Marin's VP. 

he basically gave me the whole rundown on Performance/Chain Reaction. 

he had two solutions:

1. buy the bike from CRC and get it set up at an authorized reseller and they will still give me a warranty 

2. find the Pine Mountain at a LBS and buy it there


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Wow, that is a bummer OP.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Maybe you should just start test-riding bikes, and see if you find one for a good price that you like.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

This one can be had for $600 and apparently mint

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/321492432112894/

About $60 cheaper than the "new" one from CRC that doesn't have a warranty anyway.

*If I can get him to $550 is this a buy? could go see it/ride it tomorrow and have it by afternoon. 
*
i'll also know by tomorrow AM if CRC has a true, new PM in stock.


----------



## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

retracted


----------



## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

That was a nice resolution from Marin, otherwise you were basically paying more than used price for a used bike from CRC. 

The paint looks messed up enough where I wouldn't except it as new, so also good-on CRC for shipping away to see if they can stiff you with it. 

I am impressed with Marin going to such lenghts to protect brand and partners, but probably a lot of bikes, too. Interesting turn of events. 



Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/426044318125520/


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Yeah that sucks for Marin. Not sure I'd come down too hard on CRC. The bankruptcy laws permit sale of assets free of encumbrances, so they didn't do anything illegal. Possibly unethical? Maybe. 

Evidently, Marin got paid for the inventory, or they would have had a superior right to recover it. So it doesn't suck so much for Marin as for their ADs having to compete with that. But it won't last long.


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

this is starting to feel more like a catfishing episode... but instead of being lured into a relationship, we're being lured into a bike-buying adventure


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

tweeder82o said:


> this is starting to feel more like a catfishing episode... but instead of being lured into a relationship, we're being lured into a bike-buying adventure


Lol that's a fair point. I definitely didn't expect these events to unfold but kind of cool I talked to a senior leader at Marin.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

TwiceHorn said:


> Yeah that sucks for Marin. Not sure I'd come down too hard on CRC. The bankruptcy laws permit sale of assets free of encumbrances, so they didn't do anything illegal. Possibly unethical? Maybe.
> 
> Evidently, Marin got paid for the inventory, or they would have had a superior right to recover it. So it doesn't suck so much for Marin as for their ADs having to compete with that. But it won't last long.


I have a lot more respect for Marin in this than I do for Felt, for example, whose own business practices encourage their own authorized dealers to undercut each other. I will never buy a Felt, for sure.

But still, not much Marin can do about its products being sold in bankruptcy proceedings. There have always been businesses who dabble heavily in bankruptcy sales and random overstock and grey market product as their primary business model. I mean, look at TJ Maxx/Marshalls and associated stores.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

tweeder82o said:


> this is starting to feel more like a catfishing episode... but instead of being lured into a relationship, we're being lured into a bike-buying adventure


Agreed, but it's like a train wreck; I can't look away. We've gone from budget hardtails and used bikes to buying a new rigid bike that lacks the components to even add a fork! Can't wait to see the wreckage at the end.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

TwiceHorn said:


> Yeah that sucks for Marin. Not sure I'd come down too hard on CRC. The bankruptcy laws permit sale of assets free of encumbrances, so they didn't do anything illegal. Possibly unethical? Maybe.
> 
> Evidently, Marin got paid for the inventory, or they would have had a superior right to recover it. So it doesn't suck so much for Marin as for their ADs having to compete with that. But it won't last long.


Yeah, thats more or less what I take away from this as well.

The fire sale on Marins will only last a little while, then things will go back to normal for them. As you said, they're kind of in a weird spot, where they were paid for the bikes, but then CRC picked them up for cheap during the bankruptcy, and are passing the deal on to whoever can score one of the deals. Its like others said, there are whole retail chains who thrive on this business model.

It is lame for the OP though that they didn't get the bike they wanted.

That said, I personally feel a hardtail (rather than full rigid) is likely a better starting point for most new riders. The fork takes a bit of the edge off, and makes it easier to hold on in the rough stuff, as well as keeps the hands/wrists from being as numb.

After a while, they can decide if they want to go full rigid, or go full suspension. But I feel that the middle ground (hardtail) is a good mid-ground starting point.

Oh, and while it sounds like the CRC Marins are sold essentially as a used bike (if you can't get a warranty on them) I'd still take one over an actual used bike if the price is anywhere close. At least you know it isn't actually "used", unlike a craigslist find, which could have who knows what history.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

twodownzero said:


> Agreed, but it's like a train wreck; I can't look away. We've gone from budget hardtails and used bikes to buying a new rigid bike that lacks the components to even add a fork! Can't wait to see the wreckage at the end.


I was directed to the PM as a good option.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

It is a good option. The problem with looking at bikes online is that they are different animals in person. Riding a bike will tell you a lot. And riding a variety of bikes even more. You need to test-ride, not just look online.


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

twodownzero said:


> Agreed, but it's like a train wreck; I can't look away. We've gone from budget hardtails and used bikes to buying a new rigid bike that lacks the components to even add a fork! Can't wait to see the wreckage at the end.


yea, it's one thing watching a train wreck and following through to see where it ends...

it's another to be invested and brought to the edge of a purchase only to be let down and back to another search

this can only end in a mad dash to the airport, followed by a heartfelt confession, and end with a slow clap


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Analysis paralysis is the term that comes to mind here. OP, if the amount you are spending is a significant sum of cash to you, good on you for looking carefully at your options. However, this will probably not be the last bike you buy. As you ride more and technology changes, you'll likely find that you want or need something different. Rather than trying to completely future-proof your purchase, find something adequate for now and start riding. Within a few rides, you will get used to whatever you have. This will allow to to see what you like and dislike about the bike you have to give you a baseline to help you with future bike decisions.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

jcd46 said:


> Yes! Bias opinion though.





Cornfield said:


> You never posted links, just names of locations.
> 
> Seriously tho, that Karate Monkey would suit you just fine. It is a highly versatile bike that you could keep for a long time and change as you get more into cycling. It doesn't need anything as it sits, just a rider.
> 
> ...





Muirenn said:


> Hell yes on the Monkey!
> 
> Double bias...
> 
> ...





twodownzero said:


> I already have one and ride it all the time and I'd buy another one all day if I could get it for $600.
> 
> View attachment 1255431
> 
> ...


welp. i decided on the KM after all. a new one...

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=91967


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Good choice! Surly makes great bikes, and very affordable.

Congrats!


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> welp. i decided on the KM after all. a new one...
> 
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=91967


rightcoastrider to the KM


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Ha! Inevitable. 

One thing, you realize they can't ship that surly, correct? You'll have to pick it up in Lancaster, PA.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Muirenn said:


> Ha! Inevitable.
> 
> One thing, you realize they can't ship that surly, correct? You'll have to pick it up in Lancaster, PA.


I think they're shipping now, if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

I did hear that Surly was changing it, but the UC link says it's store pickup. Hard to say.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Ok, yeah I'm sure Op will give us an update.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Congrats, OP! Did you get it in Hi-Viz Black? 

Love the Surly color names! :lol:


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> Ha! Inevitable.
> 
> One thing, you realize they can't ship that surly, correct? You'll have to pick it up in Lancaster, PA.





jcd46 said:


> I think they're shipping now, if I'm not mistaken.





tweeder82o said:


> rightcoastrider to the KM
> 
> View attachment 1259433





jcd46 said:


> Good choice! Surly makes great bikes, and very affordable.
> 
> Congrats!





Muirenn said:


> I did hear that Surly was changing it, but the UC link says it's store pickup. Hard to say.





jcd46 said:


> Ok, yeah I'm sure Op will give us an update.





Cornfield said:


> Congrats, OP! Did you get it in Hi-Viz Black?
> 
> Love the Surly color names! :lol:


Guys this is a cruel joke, right?!!??

Just got this from UC:

_TCR,

We only carry the Surly bikes in our Portland location. Unfortunately, they aren't available in our Lancaster location._


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Looks like it's still available, offer the seller $900!

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2578315/


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Option 2. Most shops have a QBP account, and they can order it for you.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

jcd46 said:


> Option 2. Most shops have a QBP account, and they can order it for you.


Most shops want $1550...thought I found an OK deal at $1199. Damn.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

therightcoastrider said:


> Most shops want $1550...thought I found an OK deal at $1199. Damn.


and it's still worth that. Surlys are good, solid bikes that will last a long time. They're almost never the latest, greatest, flashiest bikes. But there's a reason they're desirable.


----------



## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Harold said:


> and it's still worth that. Surlys are good, solid bikes that will last a long time. They're almost never the latest, greatest, flashiest bikes. But there's a reason they're desirable.


I won't argue that. Everything I've read is good.

Still, these stores should get their acts together. I'm 0/2 and CRC ghosted me today when I asked for a refund.

As an aside, might it be worth trying to get another shop to match UC's $1199 price?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Good luck getting a shop to price match with someone selling a bike on the other side of the country, online or not.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> Guys this is a cruel joke, right?!!??
> 
> Just got this from UC:
> 
> ...


i guess it's down to the "mad dash to the airport" trope


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

So what's wrong with the used one in Brooklyn? 

It's still cheaper than new but minus warranty, it's a Surly, probably not going to break, and you could even test ride it to see if it even fits you and you like it!


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Cornfield said:


> So what's wrong with the used one in Brooklyn?
> 
> It's still cheaper than new but minus warranty, it's a Surly, probably not going to break, and you could even test ride it to see if it even fits you and you like it!


Dude that thing has been gone for weeks. That was one of my first finds via CL and he offered to sell it to me for $600. Sold it the night before I could make it there.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> Dude that thing has been gone for weeks. That was one of my first finds via CL and he offered to sell it to me for $600. Sold it the night before I could make it there.


Yeah, the seller either told you someone else was buying it, or someone did buy it and put it on Pinkbike for more. It's the same bike, same pictures even!

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2578315/

And look: "Reasonable offers only", you could probably work a deal.


----------



## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Cornfield said:


> Yeah, the seller either told you someone else was buying it, or someone did buy it and put it on Pinkbike for more. It's the same bike, same pictures even!
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2578315/


It's an old ad. Dude sold it at the start of June and probably never took it down.

I did stumble on this but it's a SS

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1544536772462916?view=permalink&id=2321961761387076&_rdr


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> It's an old ad. Dude sold it at the start of June and probably never took it down.
> 
> I did stumble on this but it's a SS
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/groups/1544536772462916?view=permalink&id=2321961761387076&_rdr


Oops sorry, my bad.

I don't have an account at Pinkbike, and I'm not on Facecrook, so I can't see that ad.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Cornfield said:


> Oops sorry, my bad.
> 
> I don't have an account at Pinkbike, and I'm not on Facecrook, so I can't see that ad.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

One point, it's the 2017's and newer that have the updated technology and geometry, not from 2015. My 2015 Krampus had QR wheels and older geometry.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> One point, it's the 2017's and newer that have the updated technology and geometry, not from 2015. My 2015 Krampus had QR wheels and older geometry.


Thanks dude!


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

therightcoastrider said:


> Thanks dude!


I guess you are not familiar with the name Muirenn.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Muirenn said:


> I guess you are not familiar with the name Murienn.


with that hint, I googled it. I gave up trying to figure out people's screen names on here years ago. yep...no idea. the closest I'd come to familiarity with the name is a trip to Ireland 25yrs ago, and don't recall meeting anyone that shared it.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Harold said:


> with that hint, I googled it. I gave up trying to figure out people's screen names on here years ago. yep...no idea. the closest I'd come to familiarity with the name is a trip to Ireland 25yrs ago, and don't recall meeting anyone that shared it.


It's not a common name. I'm in the US, and my first name is an Irish girl's name, but not that one. I do love the name, though. It's pronounced Marrun. Ar as in 'far.'


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Found a LBS that’ll do $1500 OTD for the KM and comes with 2 free tunes and basic gear and brake adjustments for life.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

therightcoastrider said:


> Found a LBS that'll do $1500 OTD for the KM and comes with 2 free tunes and basic gear and brake adjustments for life.


A brand new one? Nice!!


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

NYrr496 said:


> A brand new one? Nice!!


Ride Brooklyn


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Which color?


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> Which color?


I asked for black. Think I like it more than the blue. Bad call?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

hurry up and buy the bike so you can start riding it before something else comes up


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Get the color you like.


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

Buy the bike, sign off of mtbr and don't come back until you put at least 2 rides in, then we want pictures.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Make sure you specify between Sparkle Boogie Black, Hi Viz Black, Gloss Black and Rainbows in the Dark, or they will make fun of you.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> Make sure you specify between Sparkle Boogie Black, Hi Viz Black, Gloss Black and Rainbows in the Dark, or they will make fun of you.


Lmao!


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> It's not a common name. I'm in the US, and my first name is an Irish girl's name, but not that one. I do love the name, though. It's pronounced Marrun. Ar as in 'far.'


----------



## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

tweeder82o;14156291[IMG said:


> https://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1259619&stc=1[/IMG]


I think those have different entomologies.

ETA: Muirenn is the word 'sea' plus 'white' in Gaelic. Basically whitewater. Which I already knew.

Maureen is the Irish form of Mary.

Marion is Hebrew for bitter, or in French, Little Beloved.

Merrion is Welsh, a family name, and masculine. The others are all feminine.

Muireann is the same, but too difficult to spell.

Muiren is also the same, but it sounds like urine when I say it. So no.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Only on MTBR you get an English lesson, in the beginner's forum.

Congrats! Op, finally? No more drama please! lol.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Brooklyn? Call the Bicycle Planet in Syosset Long Island and see if they have one. They're a short distance from the Throgs Neck Bridge. I know they sell Surly. I get most of my stuff there. I know they'll meet that price too. Tell em you know me, maybe they'll beat it. ****, maybe they'll charge you more.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

therightcoastrider said:


> Found a LBS that'll do $1500 OTD for the KM and comes with 2 free tunes and basic gear and brake adjustments for life.


You can get a Salsa Timberjack for $1200 that will already have a fork and dropper. They're not that great, but they're better than nothing for getting started. Don't get me wrong, I love my KM, but if you want to shred singletrack with a KM, it needs a few upgrades.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

twodownzero said:


> You can get a Salsa Timberjack for $1200 that will already have a fork and dropper. They're not that great, but they're better than nothing for getting started. Don't get me wrong, I love my KM, but if you want to shred singletrack with a KM, it needs a few upgrades.


No. No. No. No. Don't drag this out!!!!


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Muirenn said:


> No. No. No. No. Don't drag this out!!!!


Lol I was going to post the same thing! Nooooooooooo!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Muirenn said:


> I think those have different entomologies.












sorry. biologist/science teacher-in-training


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

etymology.

Ugh. 

My undergraduate degree is in English, and Biology. 

Pretty sure there was a 'y' in there before autocorrect got ahold of it. Oh well.


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> I think those have different entomologies.
> 
> ETA: Muirenn is the word 'sea' plus 'white' in Gaelic. Basically whitewater. Which I already knew.
> 
> ...


ahh, I thought you might get the image reference. it's from an amazon show "catastrophe" -- american dude marries irish lady, both living in england, has a daughter. named "muireann" which no one knows how to pronounce. the image is of other characters' attempt at the name


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Do you have a new bike yet?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Muirenn said:


> Do you have a new bike yet?


Changed his mind, went for a DownCountry bike.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Shockingly I changed my mind again and ultimately ended up with the PM from CR.

That said, installing the wheel is a bit intimidating. Not sure exactly how to do it and the instructions are a bit unclear.

What's this plastic piece? Is it just to protect or does that remain on? How do I properly tighten? If anyone cares to point me in the right direction I'd be much appreciative!

Is this something better left to the professionals?


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Ok forget what I just said. I watched a few videos and understand the install other than the fact that it appears the space to fit the disk into the brake is too narrow...


----------



## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Pls respond...lol


----------



## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> Pls respond...lol


your picture doesn't work...


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

tweeder82o said:


> your picture doesn't work...


thanks for the video and sorry about that! just fixed the image - does that look like the issue or should there be enough space there to slip the disk into?


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

still don't know what you are talking about


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

View attachment 1262401


still don't know what you are talking about


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> does that look like the issue or should there be enough space there to slip the disk into?


Looks like the issue.



tweeder82o said:


> still don't know what you are talking about


Right click > view image


----------



## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Wtf is wrong with this site that you can’t embed images


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Let's try it again


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Might be worthwhile to take the bike to a shop for a tune-up.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Muirenn said:


> Might be worthwhile to take the bike to a shop for a tune-up.


Not something I should attempt on my own?

The video posted above seems relatively straight forward.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> Wtf is wrong with this site that you can't embed images


imgur blocked this site from using their service because people were using it in the classifieds.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Well it's not a KM but I like it.

Not without its issues though. Had to go to a LBS to get the brakes bled and the rear brake appears to potentially be leaking oil. They told me to keep an eye on it but the brakes work much better for the time being.

The other issue is the front rotor seems to still be rubbing a bit on the pads. I'm going to try to tinker with that myself.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Awesome! Congrats on the new bike. At that price, you did very well.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

For future reference, if you have hydraulic brakes, don't squeeze the lever with nothing, disc or brake spacer, in between pads. 

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

That brake is going to become a problem at some point. It's not potentially leaking. It's definitely leaking. Did you or anyone else trim the hydraulic hoses during/after assembly (or were they the correct length when you pulled it out of the box)? There are a few fittings in there that, properly assembled, should prevent leakage.

It's possible the hose got tugged on at some point, messing up the sealing of the fittings. I'm surprised the shop didn't at least take a look.


----------



## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Harold said:


> That brake is going to become a problem at some point. It's not potentially leaking. It's definitely leaking. Did you or anyone else trim the hydraulic hoses during/after assembly (or were they the correct length when you pulled it out of the box)? There are a few fittings in there that, properly assembled, should prevent leakage.
> 
> It's possible the hose got tugged on at some point, messing up the sealing of the fittings. I'm surprised the shop didn't at least take a look.


Ya man it definitely seems to be leaking. I didn't do anything other than put the wheel on.


----------



## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

cjsb said:


> For future reference, if you have hydraulic brakes, don't squeeze the lever with nothing, disc or brake spacer, in between pads.
> 
> Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


I didn't. It came that way.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

therightcoastrider said:


> Ya man it definitely seems to be leaking. I didn't do anything other than put the wheel on.


There are a lot of potential occasions where the hydro hose could have been tugged on between when the brake was assembled and when you took it to the shop. Maybe it happened when the brake was attached to the bike, or when the bike was packaged or when you pulled it out of the box.

If you didn't trim the hose, someone else did, and that's another possible source of the leak - maybe it wasn't reassembled right.

Considering the brake pads were too close when you pulled it out of the box (usually, those have a spacer in there when you pull them out of the box, and it snaps into place so it won't fall out), I'm hedging towards sloppy assembly/packaging. I just wanted to clarify what exactly you did after you opened the box.


----------



## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

Ok so a few things:

Opened the box. The only spacer was between the hub nothing between the pads. I actually removed the pads myself to try to stop the friction. I did for a bit but it has returned. 

I put the wheel, seat and handlebars on myself.

A few questions as I’d like to ride tomorrow:

1. Can I ride with the brake and the friction issue I mention (though I’ll try to rectify the rotor issue again tomorrow)?

2. When I put the wheel onto the bike I placed the dropouts directly into the little gap in the quick release skewer. I think it’s sitting atop the comical springs. Is this ok?

Thanks.


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

The brake looks weird for sure.

If you pull/slide back that cover, there should be a little bolt there where the hose gets fastened into the master cylinder assembly.

Check to see if that is loose, or damaged looking or something like that. From that much of a leak, I'd guess its either loose, or a part was forgotten during installation? Should be easy to check though.

The front brake is rubbing some? Are you sure its centered right? Its easy to check. Just loosen the caliper bolts a bit (until you can move the caliper around, so like a half turn or so), then squeeze the brake lever really hard (while the wheel is on the bike), and tighten the caliper bolts while squeezing. That "usually" takes care of most of it, unless the rotor is bent or something like that.

Otherwise, enjoy the new bike!


----------



## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)




----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Yeah, thats the junction I was talking about. Does it leak oil around that joint when you squeeze the levers/pressurize the system?

I'd dry it off SUPER well, and then wrap a paper towel around it, or toilet paper (something that shows moisture REALLY well), and then grab the brake a handful of times, and see if anything leaks out.

Its possible it was just left messy when they assembled/trimmed the system from the factory, as that area can get damp when you are doing that stuff. It just looked like a lot of oil.

Also, you got the brakes bled. Does the rear brake feel any different than it did when you got it back from the bike shop? If its leaking, I'd expect the brake to get mushier over time. If its not, it should still feel exactly the same as when you picked it up.


----------



## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

therightcoastrider said:


> 2. When I put the wheel onto the bike I placed the dropouts directly into the little gap in the quick release skewer. I think it's sitting atop the comical springs. Is this ok?
> 
> Thanks.


Pull the conical springs out and reverse them. The small part goes toward the wheel and the wider part goes to the outside. The frame dropouts should sit on the axle and not on the springs.


----------



## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

ocnLogan said:


> Yeah, thats the junction I was talking about. Does it leak oil around that joint when you squeeze the levers/pressurize the system?
> 
> I'd dry it off SUPER well, and then wrap a paper towel around it, or toilet paper (something that shows moisture REALLY well), and then grab the brake a handful of times, and see if anything leaks out.
> 
> ...


The rear brake engages much better and there's way less travel. Prior I almost had to pull it to the handlebar.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

sgltrak said:


> Pull the conical springs out and reverse them. The small part goes toward the wheel and the wider part goes to the outside. The frame dropouts should sit on the axle and not on the springs.


I do think the fat end is facing outwards but I'll check!


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

i hate to be the "woe is me" guy but i need to vent. 

so i finally get this bike and out of the box there's a slightly bent rotor and a completely leaking brake oil reservoir. 

after one LBS did a full bleed which did not rectify the issue, i brought it to another shop who told me they'll need to warranty it through Shimano. 

i mean, ****! all i want to do is ride. now i'm out of commission for at least another week. this completely sucks.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

N+1

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

therightcoastrider said:


> i hate to be the "woe is me" guy but i need to vent.
> 
> so i finally get this bike and out of the box there's a slightly bent rotor and a completely leaking brake oil reservoir.
> 
> ...


I still think you got a good deal, that was almost 50% off the original MSRP. Once it's worked out, you will be rolling with a sweet steel bike.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Does the brake work at all? I've got air in one of my front bakes, I have to pump it to get it to work until I bleed them, and I've had some rubbing rotors, but if I wanna ride it'll take more than that to stop me.

I bet you could figure out how to fix both of your issues on YouTube.


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> i hate to be the "woe is me" guy but i need to vent.
> 
> so i finally get this bike and out of the box there's a slightly bent rotor and a completely leaking brake oil reservoir.
> 
> ...


It is a total bummer, and it isn't a "woe is me" situation.

like JCD46 mentioned, you save some money on this, you are more or less trading your time and effort for the amount of money you saved.

Luckily it doesnt sound like that it's a serious issue, sounds like it's just an issue that occurs when a reseller is selling someone else's product at the lower price. And they're passing that time and effort on to you.

I'll just call it "bonding" time with you bike, this ordeal will strengthen your relationship with it.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

guys i need some help and direction here. 

i just called the LBS to see what the status was. they haven't even taken it off, let alone sent it to Shimano for replacement. their argument was that the "hiccup" is b/c i didn't buy the bike with them. fine. 

how can i get these brakes and rotor (if need be) fixed as soon as possible? given the anecdotes i've read about how long Shimano can take in receiving and then dispatching new brakes, this is just turning into a huge issue and it'll be winter before i get something rideable at this point. 

i just contacted CRC for their advice on what to do next but, man, this is a bit annoying.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

therightcoastrider said:


> guys i need some help and direction here.
> 
> i just called the LBS to see what the status was. they haven't even taken it off, let alone sent it to Shimano for replacement. their argument was that the "hiccup" is b/c i didn't buy the bike with them. fine.
> 
> ...


It's definitely true that warranty processing is frequently easier if you can work through the place where you bought the item. That can be tough, though, when you bought online from an overseas retailer (hey, a bunch of components on my current bike came from German retailers, so I'd be in the same boat with a warranty claim).

The shop kinda has you bent over a bit, because they have a bit of control over the scenario. Your best bet in dealing with them is to be nice to them, but kinda persistent. I worked for years in shops, and most likely what's happened is that it's the busy season and your bike got put at the end of the line on service tickets, even though removing and sending off your brake lever is a fairly small job. A couple of days is to be expected for this kind of scenario. Because it's "the busy season" there are lots of other folks with similarly pressing needs and you've just gotta wait your turn. I have had a Shimano brake lever warrantied before. It wasn't that big of a deal, but there was a little bit of a wait for shipping turnaround. I worked at the shop that warrantied it, though, so I did all the work myself when clocked out, so I didn't have that part hanging over my head, too.

I get that you're anxious to ride your new bike, but the unfortunate part about this is that this is one of the potential drawbacks of heavy bargain hunting and buying online. Shops see these kinds of issues with some frequency on the bikes they sell, too. But typically by the time you walk out the door with it, they've identified the obvious stuff and dealt with the warranties and the waiting for the parts replacements and all that.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

therightcoastrider said:


> guys i need some help and direction here.
> 
> i just called the LBS to see what the status was. they haven't even taken it off, let alone sent it to Shimano for replacement. their argument was that the "hiccup" is b/c i didn't buy the bike with them. fine.
> 
> ...


I like to have spare parts lying around the garage for most things that can go wrong on my bike, specifically to avoid down time and not being able to ride. Maybe you can find a second set of brakes on Craigslist or ebay to install while you await the warranty replacements. I now have three different relatively inexpensive bikes set up nearly identically, so if one is down I can grab another or grab parts off another and I don't miss any riding days. 
I usually have a set of Avid BB-7 mechanical brakes lying around my garage that can go on most any of my bikes quickly and easily if I need to do somethig with a different set of brakes. Last time I was waiting on parts for my XT M-8000 brakes, I just put the Avids on and kept riding.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

sgltrak said:


> I like to have spare parts lying around the garage for most things that can go wrong on my bike, specifically to avoid down time and not being able to ride. Maybe you can find a second set of brakes on Craigslist or ebay to install while you await the warranty replacements. I now have three different relatively inexpensive bikes set up nearly identically, so if one is down I can grab another or grab parts off another and I don't miss any riding days.
> I usually have a set of Avid BB-7 mechanical brakes lying around my garage that can go on most any of my bikes quickly and easily if I need to do somethig with a different set of brakes. Last time I was waiting on parts for my XT M-8000 brakes, I just put the Avids on and kept riding.


definitely not opposed to this approach but i don't know the first thing about buying appropriate components which is the main hold up.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Marin webpage says Shimano MT400. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/acera-m3000/BL-MT400.html

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pa...?limit=24&q=Shimano+BL-MT400+Disc+Brake+Lever

My favorite bike shop has a 2 week turnaround on shop work, but makes appointments, so you can bring it in two weeks hence for 1 day turnaround. That's normal-ish for a good bike shop.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

TwiceHorn said:


> Marin webpage says Shimano MT400. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/acera-m3000/BL-MT400.html
> 
> https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pa...?limit=24&q=Shimano+BL-MT400+Disc+Brake+Lever
> 
> My favorite bike shop has a 2 week turnaround on shop work, but makes appointments, so you can bring it in two weeks hence for 1 day turnaround. That's normal-ish for a good bike shop.


stupid question but why don't i see the mineral oil reservoir on those?


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

---


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

thanks all. just talked to another LBS. they can do the work and turn around time is 1 day. they quoted me ~$45 for the brake and ~$25 for the labor. 

i may just do that and see if CRC can reimburse for some of it.


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

TwiceHorn said:


> Marin webpage says Shimano MT400. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/acera-m3000/BL-MT400.html
> 
> https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pa...?limit=24&q=Shimano+BL-MT400+Disc+Brake+Lever
> 
> My favorite bike shop has a 2 week turnaround on shop work, but makes appointments, so you can bring it in two weeks hence for 1 day turnaround. That's normal-ish for a good bike shop.


https://www.treefortbikes.com/Shima...MIm-Smxfuq4wIViB-tBh3iqgcTEAQYAyABEgLAUPD_BwE


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

therightcoastrider said:


> thanks all. just talked to another LBS. they can do the work and turn around time is 1 day. they quoted me ~$45 for the brake and ~$25 for the labor.
> 
> i may just do that and see if CRC can reimburse for some of it.


Make sure you tip the mechanic when you pick up the bike.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

tweeder82o said:


> https://www.treefortbikes.com/Shima...MIm-Smxfuq4wIViB-tBh3iqgcTEAQYAyABEgLAUPD_BwE


that's cheap but i question if a LBS would be cool with my bringing in a bike AND a part i didn't buy from them.

i may just go the route of having the shop supply and fix the brake and then warranty the broken one - while hoping CRC either helps with the warranty or reimburses me for OOP costs.


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> stupid question but why don't i see the mineral oil reservoir on those?


https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-MBBR001-03-ENG.pdf

Page 29


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> that's cheap but i question if a LBS would be cool with my bringing in a bike AND a part i didn't buy from them.
> 
> i may just go the route of having the shop supply and fix the brake and then warranty the broken one - while hoping CRC either helps with the warranty or reimburses me for OOP costs.


the link I gave is from my LBS, so I'd imagined yourLBS can supply that part for basically the same price.


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

tweeder82o said:


> the link I gave is from my LBS, so I'd imagined yourLBS can supply that part for basically the same price.


really appreciate it friend!

does it matter if, for instance, my front brake is an MT400 and the back is a different model (whatever they may have in stock)?


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

therightcoastrider said:


> really appreciate it friend!
> 
> does it matter if, for instance, my front brake is an MT400 and the back is a different model (whatever they may have in stock)?


not at all, they're two separate systems and work independently


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## therightcoastrider (Jun 11, 2018)

so, an update to put this to bed. i had another LBS (the 3rd i've visited) replace the rear brake with a Shimano MT200. the front is the MT400 that came with the bike. close enough.

cost me $70 out the door and was done in 24 hours (hopefully i didn't get taken to the cleaners here).

i have the faulty brake as well so i plan to contact Shimano to warranty it as well as CRC to see if they'll credit me for the replacement.

and the best part? i got to ride today:

https://forums.mtbr.com/beginners-corner/today-my-first-day-ever-mtb-holy-sh*t-1108359.html


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