# The absolute joy of dropping a guy



## dirtmistress (Sep 2, 2005)

that's turning the screws on you on a hill. You know he's trying to drop you because you are a "girl". The shame of it all if you are first to the top! The wicked feeling of satisfaction,guilt free,when you realize he's going harder and faster and you're on his wheel and you feel like you're only at 80%. He keeps glancing back and then suddenly, you're half-wheeling him and then, his raspy breathing giving everything away,you pass him! Ciao Bella!


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

mwahahahaha!!!! 

Of course it's only satisfying if you know the guy has a problem with the fact that you're a woman and he's clearly struggling for that reason alone. The guys I ride with are cool and don't care- I'm just one of them and usually in the middle of the pack.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*I'm of another school as*

following a girl up a hill has it's benefits fanny/spandex wise. As Queen Latifa said of her fellow bike messengers "y'all know you only followed me for the view!" And this makes the whole issue problematic. That is:
1) if I follow you all the way up the hill I am an old letch.
2) if I pass you going up a hill I am a mysogenistic malcontent with gender issues.
There is a third possibility;
3) I am just doing my ride and you are a target no matter what saddle you prefer.

As I said, I am probably of the #1 School, except in the case of my High School girls, who, officially, don't have fannies or figures of any kind and exist only to be coached up the hill while you ride next to them and if they ever drop you on a climb you are overjoyed!

Is there any way out of this? Help! I'll just go outside and put the hood fairing and mud flaps on my wife's new Tribeca.


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

If I keep looking back at you while mashing my way up a hill, it's only so I can make sure I don't get in your way as you make your move. It's just common courtesy, and I'm sure you'd do the same.


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## ktmsx (Nov 29, 2005)

Heck I wish you lived near me I would love to see one of my friends face if you kicked his butt up a hill or any trail...I don't think he could take it....Me I could care less..it does sound like you are quite happy to beat this individual.......


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

That's why I say it's only fun if you're *sure* he's got a thing about being overtaken by a woman. Unless you know the guy and he's said so, it's impossible to know for sure what he's thinking. Sometimes you just get a feeling, like he wouldn't be bothered if you were a dude.

Obviously, a guy who wants to race you is better than a guy who's condescending.


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## Carter Taylor (Jan 15, 2004)

*Typical Woman Reaction...*

Reading much more into the situation then the guy was. He could of been doing interval training and you happened on him as he started an interval, or he was going to climb with you but that would of taken him over his target zone for an easy day. Might of been running late and had to speed up. Maybe he spilled gas on his ...and was trying to get to a lake to get rid of the burn (true story, happened to me when gas leaked and soaked my groin area while riding in the desert on a motorcycle) or as Bike High stated, just trying to get out of your way. Could be a number of very simple, yet perfectly acceptable reasons other than what you thought on why he sped up.
I am going to go play elsewhere, too competitive here.
cyas


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Carter Taylor said:


> I am going to go play elsewhere, too competitive here.
> cyas


translate that to "not sure if my ass looks hot in lycra so I think I'l leave...."


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## glenzx (Dec 19, 2003)

formica said:


> translate that to "not sure if my ass looks hot in lycra so I think I'l leave...."


BWAAAAHHAAAHAA! Now now - you made me spit my Glucosamine laden/Orange flavor Emergen-C out!

The womens lounge is far and away the most consistently fun and pertinent forum... bravo!

_(checks ass in spandex in mirror...)_

_JK_


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

glenzx said:


> BWAAAAHHAAAHAA! Now now - you made me spit my Glucosamine laden/Orange flavor Emergen-C out!
> 
> The womens lounge is far and away the most consistently fun and pertinent forum... bravo!
> 
> ...


It is fun only because the guys in here constantly ask dumb questions, and the women always seem so worried about whether or not that can keep up with men, or better yet, whether men think they can ride, even though they are women. I have yet to see a post about how a woman "dropped" another woman up a hill, man bashers.


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## Fiona (Aug 21, 2005)

*I've got a jersey waiting for that day.*



dirtmistress said:


> that's turning the screws on you on a hill. You know he's trying to drop you because you are a "girl". The shame of it all if you are first to the top! The wicked feeling of satisfaction,guilt free,when you realize he's going harder and faster and you're on his wheel and you feel like you're only at 80%. He keeps glancing back and then suddenly, you're half-wheeling him and then, his raspy breathing giving everything away,you pass him! Ciao Bella!


I found the jersey in a bike catalogue (I think Sporty's) and comes in pink or blue and on the front reads "Jack and Jill went up the hill..." on the back"... and she kicked Jack's @$$" One of these days I plan on wearing that one with pride.

Fiona


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

Fiona said:


> I found the jersey in a bike catalogue (I think Sporty's) and comes in pink or blue and on the front reads "Jack and Jill went up the hill..." on the back"... and she kicked Jack's @$$" One of these days I plan on wearing that one with pride.
> 
> Fiona


Why are you so worried about beating guys? We all know boys are better than girls. No seriously, why would you base your riding skills on beating a guy up a hill? Are you putting guys on a pedestal by working towards that? If everytime I got beat up a hill by a girl I quit riding, I wouldnt have a bike. No wait, no girl can beat me, EVER!!


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## knobbyknees (Dec 30, 2004)

*Are you as clueless as you sound?*



Joe Dirt said:


> Why are you so worried about beating guys? We all know boys are better than girls. No seriously, why would you base your riding skills on beating a guy up a hill? Are you putting guys on a pedestal by working towards that? If everytime I got beat up a hill by a girl I quit riding, I wouldnt have a bike. No wait, no girl can beat me, EVER!!


Joe, have you ever compared race times between men and women? It's no secret that men generally have a significant advantage over women when it comes to power and aerobic capacity. It's not some psychological made up thing, and it's not about skill. This is a biological fact. That's why the men's race winner pretty much always has a faster time than the women's race winner, usually by a wide margin.

Beating a man up a hill can be a big challenge, more so than beating a woman, a peer. Yes, mens climbing times do put them on a bit of a pedestal. It's gotta be nice to get up there.

As for never being beaten up a hill by a woman... < yawn > we're so happy for you!

Patty


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## beegirl (Apr 23, 2005)

Women have their reasons for wanting to beat SOME guys. How many times as little girls did we have to endure phrases like "throw like a girl", or "lose to a GIRL"? Most guys are mature enough to appreciate female athletes. I have had so many great guys on co-ed teams, as coaches, and as workout buddies. But there are still the boneheads who act just like little boys...and they are the ones we're talking about. If your masculinity and confidence is that delicate, you've got issues.


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

beegirl said:


> Women have their reasons for wanting to beat SOME guys. How many times as little girls did we have to endure phrases like "throw like a girl", or "lose to a GIRL"? Most guys are mature enough to appreciate female athletes. I have had so many great guys on co-ed teams, as coaches, and as workout buddies. But there are still the boneheads who act just like little boys...and they are the ones we're talking about. If your masculinity and confidence is that delicate, you've got issues.


I suppose you'd have to know the guy in order to feel this way about him, and if he's this kind of guy I'd have to wonder why you choose to ride with him. But this statement,



dirtmistress said:


> ... You know he's trying to drop you because you are a "girl". The shame of it all if you are first to the top! ... Ciao Bella!


makes me wonder. I don't know about other's, but when I'm climbing a killer hill it's all about getting to the top, and riding in whatever way and at whatever speed is required to get to the there. Don't you think it's a bit much to think that the way a guy is climbing a hill is all about you? And if a guy does have a thing about beating a particular woman to the top of a hill, couldn't it be because of attitude he's gotten from her, just as well as his own attitude? Maybe the two of them even have a thing for each other.


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## Carter Taylor (Jan 15, 2004)

*Slow to respond*

because it took awhile to get my fat arse off the couch. It takes time to finish a box of chocolate chip cookies and liter of pepsi, along with the bloated nap that follows.

_ "not sure if my ass looks hot in lycra so I think I'll leave...."_ I like lycra because it will stretch, and stretch, and stretch....

You know, I could have been great. I could have been the one to knock off Chris Eatough from the top spot in 24 hour racing. I was training 15 hours a week with a coach, using all the modern technology available, power tap, graphs... Went to Boulder Co. for a session with Andy Pruitt at the Boulder Sports Center to learn about my body and bike set up for marathon type racing. My base wattage for every day riding was 240 watts; I was able to sustain long hard efforts in the mountains. I was placing well in the solo categories and getting better with each race, year after year. The likes of Eatough, Tinker, Nat Ross, Mark Hendershot, Chuck Wheeler, James Dover just fueled my passion to get stronger and better. I was heading up the 24 hour race ladder. My place on this earth as a male had finally found what I was here for, the ultimate male ego sport.
Then it happened at a race far away from home; 1st with Christina Begy "on your left", "on your right" or "when you have room", her in those braids and matching streamers off her handlebars. Who did she think she was? At other races Nancy Busching, Mary Grigson, Katie Lindquest, Leslie Tomlinson, Louise Kobin, they just kept coming by. They would all sound so cheerful; look so fresh as they passed. Tonya Laffey, Lea Moorman, Stella Carey, that woman from France: Agnes Drogni. How I would try, but I could not stop them.
I then started noticing that they were now on single speeds, Risha Anne Vanderway, Amy Jo Ott&#8230;.how could they do this to me? Didn't they know how much effort and preparation I had put in these races and also using gears? How they were destroying my self esteem as an elite racer? I'd be reveling in how great I am late in the night, how much I could suffer, yet keep going. At that moment I was a real man, in the mode of John Wayne and Clint Eastwood. Then that image would be shattered by a woman who was a lap or two ahead of me, lap me again. This cycle of mental illusion would repeat itself over and over again during a race, up then down, up then down..
The age of the women got older, Wendy Skean. The age of the women got younger, that gal that Glenn pitted for in Phoenix, Jessica was her name I think. *rt*, dirt girl and Beth from this site, the list goes on and on. 
I started hearing voices in my head, "can I get by? How are you doing?" In my sleep at home, on the race course when no one was even around, female voices. I strained my neck muscles after awhile from looking back every few seconds, for one of them. Every rider coming up behind me seemed to look like a woman from a distance. My results plummeted as I was blowing myself up early in the races to keep all these women behind me. But, they just kept coming, always looking fresh, always cheerful. 
How dare you tell me "Happy Valentines Day" in the middle of the night as I suffered and froze in the desert, how dare you have normal conversation behind me as I struggle for breath up a climb. How dare you all for being so cheerful and happy, and happy and cheerful, who gave you that right?
I was defeated with no hope of recovery. The ultimate male ego sport had let me down. These women were not to be stopped, for every woman who retired there were more just as good if not better coming along. They even had female High School Cycling teams with access to all the technology that I used. There were female coaches, who knew more about physiology and training then most male coaches.
It was over for me. So for a guy who has seen every "Married with Children" episode at least ten times and who has Al as a major influence in his life, I finally proclaimed in my best Al Bundy voice "If you can't beat them then quit", so I did.
That's my story and I am sticking to it.
My first, last and the only diatribe I will ever do on mtb.com. 
Early "Happy Valentines Day" ladies


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## knobbyknees (Dec 30, 2004)

*Bravo!!! Best Of MTBR!*



Carter Taylor said:


> But, they just kept coming, always looking fresh, always cheerful.
> How dare you tell me "Happy Valentines Day" in the middle of the night as I suffered and froze in the desert, how dare you have normal conversation behind me as I struggle for breath up a climb. How dare you all for being so cheerful and happy, and happy and cheerful, who gave you that right?
> 
> Early "Happy Valentines Day" ladies


Wow, and you said it was too competitive here. 

Patty


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

*why compare?*

Beating a guy up a hill or a women makes no difference to me. No matter who it is, if they beat me up a hill, I am happy for them and will say "nice job" or something to that affect. I know that mens race times are faster, everyone does. So you beat the fast men up hills? Nah...didnt think so. So why brag about beating any guy up a hill? We could speak "traditonally", and have men in here brag about how they out cooked their wives, or how they ironed the hell out of a shirt, but we don't. So, why compare genders? "Throw like a girl", sorry ladies, but girls throw funny.


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## wunderhorn (May 13, 2005)

*why not*

I think you are on to something. Any mtber who considers themselves at all serious should keep a "life list" of the genders and -- why not -- ethnicities of people we have dropped, and all the permutations thereof. E.g., "Female of mixed Icelandic and East Indian provenance, dropped climbing the switchbacks at Sherando, 6/08/05. Raspy breathing confirmed by independent third party." You could paint a little flag of their likely country of origin with the little male or female symbol on your top tube and admire your victories at home when it's too muddy to ride.


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## dirtmistress (Sep 2, 2005)

Carter Taylor said:


> because it took awhile to get my fat arse off the couch. It takes time to finish a box of chocolate chip cookies and liter of pepsi, along with the bloated nap that follows.
> 
> _ "not sure if my ass looks hot in lycra so I think I'll leave...."_ I like lycra because it will stretch, and stretch, and stretch....
> 
> ...


 MAN!! That was great! Funny as hell. Sounds like the voices keep rolling along in your head!! 
I'm too lazy and sick right now to look up Julie Furtado's stats but I believe she placed in the top 10 or closer with the pro men back in her day. I'll bet many women have done the same. 
As for Joe Dirt.. Seriously, You will NEVER,EVER understand what it is like to be a woman until you ride with a guy on a hill one lousy mile in a womans cleats and sports bra! Most guys are great. I know it and all the women here know it, but once in awhile, we come across one guy that you can tell has a problem with being with a woman thats better than him. You can feel it. Just a little something he may do. Do I get caught up in it? You bet! Competition can be fun! This is a way to let some ego bloated guy know that they are not always the best just because they are a guy. When we get to the top and he says good job,I say the same back. If they beat me, I tell them to watch their back next time..with a smile. It's all good!! 
Remember when Thelma and Louise came out? I didnt read a single review by a man that didnt call that movie insulting to men. Man bashers they said! Yet too many movies have women being raped, murdered, disfigured and who knows what else and no one says anything. Puh-leeeeze!!
Joe Dirt, you need to dress like Tootsie and git on out in your high steppin' pumps and live life on this side for awhile. 
If we revel in the fact that we beat you up the hill then wer'e man bashers, if we don't beat you up the hill then we are weak girls. Can't we do anything right? Can't we be competitive? Can't we kick someones A** and have bragging rights to it? Geez dude! Whatcha scared of?


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

wunderhorn said:


> I think you are on to something. Any mtber who considers themselves at all serious should keep a "life list" of the genders and -- why not -- ethnicities of people we have dropped, and all the permutations thereof. E.g., "Female of mixed Icelandic and East Indian provenance, dropped climbing the switchbacks at Sherando, 6/08/05. Raspy breathing confirmed by independent third party." You could paint a little flag of their likely country of origin with the little male or female symbol on your top tube and admire your victories at home when it's too muddy to ride.


Now that was funny. The last time I got smoked on a climb by a woman I was on a 45 pound full squishy and she was on a stumpy hardtail. I weigh about 205 and she was about 115 and when she got to the top she turned around and made fun of me and gloated about beating me to the top. I got so mad I decided to marry her. Now when I ride with her I bring my xc bike.


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## dirtmistress (Sep 2, 2005)

wunderhorn said:


> I think you are on to something. Any mtber who considers themselves at all serious should keep a "life list" of the genders and -- why not -- ethnicities of people we have dropped, and all the permutations thereof. E.g., "Female of mixed Icelandic and East Indian provenance, dropped climbing the switchbacks at Sherando, 6/08/05. Raspy breathing confirmed by independent third party." You could paint a little flag of their likely country of origin with the little male or female symbol on your top tube and admire your victories at home when it's too muddy to ride.


 Well don't forget sexual preferance also because if it's gay woman then they are no doubt much stronger and if it's a gay man then thay are no doubt much weaker!


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## edoz (Jan 16, 2004)

*75% of the power, 55% of the weight*

I was on a club ride once and as we headed uphill, a girl I know was in a small group that was motoring past me like I was standing still. She even had the breath to yell at some guy for not holding his line. This was while I was wondering if vomit will eat through the paint on my top tube before I got home. I figured I shouldn't sweat it until I get dropped by some chick that weighs what I do. Yeah. When I see a 195lb girl fly by me, IT"S ON!


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## glenzx (Dec 19, 2003)

Carter Taylor said:


> ... that gal that Glen pitted for in Phoenix, Jessica was her name I think. *rt*, dirt girl and Beth from this site...


Jess indeed, mentor, coach, friend - on her way to stomping all the other gals - and a lot of men! How fortunate I am to have met and ridden with all three of the gals you mentioned here! Funny how all three of these extarordinary gals can humble us fellas with a cheery "hello" and ride us off the trail, so to speak, at the same time. THAT is strength!

More importantly - this will get saved for the 2006 "Best Post" Grimy Award nominations. Bravo! You rule Carter.

_edit: My favorite "girl passing me" memory is Shonny Vanlandingham cruising by on her hardtail, on a long, hard, technical climb in a race a few years ago. All she said was "shoulda rode the full susser!" in that cheery sing-song freindly voice... as I gasped._


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## Carter Taylor (Jan 15, 2004)

*Her career ended way too early...*

Julie Furtardo was a hero of mine, the way she dominated. Like Anika Sorenstam has today in golf. I did not include Julie in my diatribe, because I never raced with her as I did with these others. Humor has to contain truth to be humorous. So every woman mentioned, I was on the same course with at one time or another. I saw the backside of them all.
Carter


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## glenzx (Dec 19, 2003)

Joe Dirt said:


> So you beat the fast men up hills? Nah...didnt think so. So why brag about beating any guy up a hill? So, why compare genders? "Throw like a girl", sorry ladies, but girls throw funny.


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## trailgirl (Oct 25, 2005)

Here is my view:

I have been mountain biking for a long time. I know that most of the time, all else being equal, a guy with a similar amount of experience will toast me if he wants to- no big deal. What bugs me, though, are these guys who just started mountain biking and think they can smoke any women just becouse she is a woman. They negate all the years of experience and conditioning that we have earned and think they are naturaly just better than any woman merely becouse they are male. They think they are better after years of sitting on the couch and playing video games while drinking beer than a woman who has spent the better part of her adult life riding and being healthy. All those years of work count for nothing in their eyes. Although I don't run into a lot of guys like that around here, it does happen. Those are the ones it is so nice to drop becouse it teaches them maybe a little respect and humility. The more experienced guys around here are all very encouraging and give a lot of support to women who ride. Most of them would like nothing more than to see more women out on the trail and foster a supportive environment for that.


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

trailgirl said:


> Here is my view:
> 
> I have been mountain biking for a long time. I know that most of the time, all else being equal, a guy with a similar amount of experience will toast me if he wants to- no big deal. What bugs me, though, are these guys who just started mountain biking and think they can smoke any women just becouse she is a woman. They negate all the years of experience and conditioning that we have earned and think they are naturaly just better than any woman merely becouse they are male. They think they are better after years of sitting on the couch and playing video games while drinking beer than a woman who has spent the better part of her adult life riding and being healthy. All those years of work count for nothing in their eyes. Although I don't run into a lot of guys like that around here, it does happen. Those are the ones it is so nice to drop becouse it teaches them maybe a little respect and humility. The more experienced guys around here are all very encouraging and give a lot of support to women who ride. Most of them would like nothing more than to see more women out on the trail and foster a supportive environment for that.


Your right, kind of. What makes you think all guys who just start riding were previously sitting on the couch all their lives? That is just as bad as thinking a woman cannot ride, simply because she is a woman, right? You don't ride for the respect of men anyway, do you? I ride because I like to ride and be outside making the blood pump.


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## trailgirl (Oct 25, 2005)

Joe Dirt said:


> Your right, kind of. What makes you think all guys who just start riding were previously sitting on the couch all their lives? That is just as bad as thinking a woman cannot ride, simply because she is a woman, right? You don't ride for the respect of men anyway, do you? I ride because I like to ride and be outside making the blood pump.


 Well, I was refering to a few guys in particular who I know where into that before they started "riding". As friends of my BF, they feel it was their right and duty to "put me in my place" so to speak. It didn't quite work out that way  .
Bad on them.
My Boyfreind is into basketball and started riding a little becouse we wanted to spend more time together. He sort of got his feelings hurt when he wasn't up to my level, also (not that I'm Wonder Woman or anything). I think he thought that basketball would automatically make him a good mountain biker. But his "buddies" were not even active and were obnoxious and rude, to boot. So, yes I can relate to the feeling Dirtmistress was refering to.. it is a joy to drop a certain type of guy


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

trailgirl said:


> Well, I was refering to a few guys in particular who I know where into that before they started "riding". As friends of my BF, they feel it was their right and duty to "put me in my place" so to speak. It didn't quite work out that way  .
> Bad on them.
> My Boyfreind is into basketball and started riding a little becouse we wanted to spend more time together. He sort of got his feelings hurt when he wasn't up to my level, also (not that I'm Wonder Woman or anything). I think he thought that basketball would automatically make him a good mountain biker. But his "buddies" were not even active and were obnoxious and rude, to boot. So, yes I can relate to the feeling Dirtmistress was refering to.. it is a joy to drop a certain type of guy


alright, fair enough.  If someone is talking sh!t, then they deserve it.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*Bzzzzzzzzzzz...*

trollin..


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

jrm said:


> trollin..


What does that mean?


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Wanna beat a guy up a hill?*

Wanna beat a guy up a hill? Come ride with me. 
I miss Picard's posts.


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## spongstick (Feb 6, 2004)

I hope you get a kick out of droping me Im a 44 year old handicap male,but please wait for me at the top so I can kick your dumb a$$ on the way DOWN,Riders like you thank it's a contest people like me just are happy they still can ride.
I ride with metal part's and Ti and Im not talking bike parts  So go have a nice Ride


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## Fiona (Aug 21, 2005)

Joe Dirt said:


> Why are you so worried about beating guys? We all know boys are better than girls. No seriously, why would you base your riding skills on beating a guy up a hill? Are you putting guys on a pedestal by working towards that? If everytime I got beat up a hill by a girl I quit riding, I wouldnt have a bike. No wait, no girl can beat me, EVER!!


It's just a matter that I ride almost exclusively with men. I need some incentives, but this one is purely for a fun challenge. If I never pass one of the guys on a climb oh well. I am one of those people that need to set myself goals. I decided that since I know what to expect from the guy I ride with, it makes a decent way to measure my own improvements. Competition is a good thing as long as it's done with good sportsmanship and humor. That's why I'm trying. If I rode with a group of women, I'd pick them as my benchmarks instead.

Fiona


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## Fiona (Aug 21, 2005)

*It's just a matter of perspective.*



spongstick said:


> I hope you get a kick out of droping me Im a 44 year old handicap male,but please wait for me at the top so I can kick your dumb a$$ on the way DOWN,Riders like you thank it's a contest people like me just are happy they still can ride.
> I ride with metal part's and Ti and Im not talking bike parts  So go have a nice Ride


I think the point is to drop obnoxious, hormone-infused, jerks who give men a BAD name. Personally, I have to say I've developed a great amount of respect for riders like yourself who are still riding through 'difficulties'. One of the men I ride with is 69 years old and still kicking the butts of the group of 30 to 45 year old men that comprise the rest of the group. He does have his "off" days, but man can he ride when he's "on".

My hats off to you. Keep riding and enjoying the freedom that 2 wheels beneath you mean.

BTW If I were you I'd adopt the term used by my MS inflicted friend "handicapable". She says that she can do anything I can, she just has to work a little to figure out how.

Fiona


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Joe Dirt said:


> Beating a guy up a hill or a women makes no difference to me. No matter who it is, if they beat me up a hill, I am happy for them and will say "nice job" or something to that affect. I know that mens race times are faster, everyone does. So you beat the fast men up hills? Nah...didnt think so. So why brag about beating any guy up a hill? We could speak "traditonally", and have men in here brag about how they out cooked their wives, or how they ironed the hell out of a shirt, but we don't. So, why compare genders? "Throw like a girl", sorry ladies, but girls throw funny.


Maybe you have to be a girl to understand. I can't tell you the amount of times that I am climbing and pass a guy, just to have them blow up trying to pass me again. These guys don't do this when my boyfriend passes them, just when "the girl" does.

Hell it happened to me on the bike path yesterday - I was having an easy ride, not pushing, keeping heart rate down - and i pass a guy on a junk bike with tennis shoes. In a minute he comes huffing and puffing by, standing up the gentle climb so hard he needed to recover. I was going at like 60% and I will tell you the temptation was profound to catch him because I knew I could, and because it was very obvious that he wanted to pass me. He didn't do this to any of the faster guys who passed him in the few minutes before I caught up.

Like I said, maybe you just need to be a girl to understand. Or be an older guy. Second most satisfying thing I see on the trail is older guys (55-65) dropping young pups.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Bravo, Carter. That is a wonderful post.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

bravo! you tell em, Carter!!

btw, i have very fresh memories of you schooling my slow @ss up all those hills on that rather chilly ride we did 2 years ago. 

rt


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

Joe Dirt said:


> ...or how they ironed the hell out of a shirt, but we don't. So, why compare genders?


iron? what's that?


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

*rt* said:


> iron? what's that?


extreme ironing rules.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

formica said:


> extreme ironing rules.


I saw that guy and I felt really good knowing that I could iron 3 shirts at the same rate that he just ironed one! I just had to keep my heart rate down and stuff, of course.


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

Impy said:


> I saw that guy and I felt really good knowing that I could iron 3 shirts at the same rate that he just ironed one! I just had to keep my heart rate down and stuff, of course.


Taking your shirts out of the dryer and putting them on hangars as soon as it buzzes is not ironing, not matter how you try to spin it!


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## glenzx (Dec 19, 2003)

spongstick said:


> ...but please wait for me at the top so I can kick your dumb a$$ on the way DOWN...


The little hope I had that you might be stating this tongue-in-cheek was dashed the 2nd and 3rd times I read it. Seems that the more guys respond, the more the original context is reinforced!

I don't care if you've got a prosthetic brain (maybe that'd help you gain some perspective - at least you are able to ride for crissake) but there is no call for the language quoted above.


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## Cogito (Nov 2, 2005)

*Yeah, I get it*

I ride with my girlfriend and other women riders who are all pretty good. I'd say there's a lot of evidence of guys behaving badly when a woman's pace seems "threatening". The women tell me that, sometimes, when they ride behind a slower stranger that he will do almost anything to prevent them from passing. 
I witnessed an amusing scenario recently. GF and I came up fast behind a guy on tight rolling single track. He was wearing tube socks and sneakers and a skateboarding helmet. Hearing someone behind him he, kindly let my GF pass. I was far enough back that he was unaware of me but I saw his double take as he realized it was a GIRL that whooshed past. "This should be fun to watch!" I thought and sure enough off he went. It was quite entertaining to watch and take note of his deteriorating form as he tired trying to catch her. He eventually took a harmless spill and seemed surprised to see me when I asked if he was alright. Of course, my GF was unaware of the whole incident because of that bane of our riding relationship - her I pod.
This probably happens more to you women more than you realize and some guys deserve to be put in their place so I understand this initial post. But comrades! I know none of us who frequent this site would ever behave in such an immature way!


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## Mary Ann (Jan 13, 2004)

This thread has been amusing (especially Carter's rant) but I didn't think it applicable to me since I'm a firm back-of-the-pack rider and couldn't drop a guy on a climb unless I was towed by a truck.

But I realized that I witness this same dymamic in the pool where I swim with a masters group. Some guys have no problem with a woman being faster than them and will willingly follow in the lane behind them. Happily I can say that this is the majority of the men I swim with.

But there are a few "blow-hards" that my girlfriends and I have encountered over the years. They're the ones who _insist_ on leading the set and go off at a blistering pace only to blow up half-way through the set and end up being passed. Or they go off at a normal pace but are still slower than those behind and are completely oblvious to the line up of swimmers behind them and they refuse to let anyone pass them. I just usually ask "do you mind if I go ahead of you" at the end of the set and that's that. But the odd time I've been told no, so I just be sure to swim on their heels and hit their feet enough times til they get the message. They rarely say no twice.

;-)
Mary Ann


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Bikehigh said:


> Taking your shirts out of the dryer and putting them on hangars as soon as it buzzes is not ironing, not matter how you try to spin it!


Lol, have you been talking with aosty?!


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Joe Dirt said:


> It is fun only because the guys in here constantly ask dumb questions, and the women always seem so worried about whether or not that can keep up with men, or better yet, whether men think they can ride, even though they are women. I have yet to see a post about how a woman "dropped" another woman up a hill, man bashers.


Angry at women much? Really, why does this bother you so much? It's rather simple - for most of us, beating a guy up a hill *is* a big deal because guys are usually faster. What part of that is hard to understand? And what part of that is so wrong?


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## Black Bart (Apr 19, 2004)

Just got back from a road ride along the beach bike path. Totally flew past this girl on a beach cruiser going up a huge 30' hill, then a bit later hauled past this old lady riding a 3 speed on a big 25' downhill run. Then I fully pulled away from Impy and left her in my dust, she claims she's doing some kind of heart rate "zone" training or something. Yeah, sure, whatever! I kicked yer butt and you know it! YES! I RULE!!


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Black Bart said:


> Just got back from a road ride along the beach bike path. Totally flew past this girl on a beach cruiser going up a huge 30' hill, then a bit later hauled past this old lady riding a 3 speed on a big 25' downhill run. Then I fully pulled away from Impy and left her in my dust, she claims she's doing some kind of heart rate "zone" training or something. Yeah, sure, whatever! I kicked yer butt and you know it! YES! I RULE!!


LOL. All this is true too, you shoulda seen him smoke the chick with the bike trailer too.


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## Black Bart (Apr 19, 2004)

Impy said:


> LOL. All this is true too, you shoulda seen him smoke the chick with the bike trailer too.


"I am a golden god."


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

*rt* said:


> iron? what's that?


lol. I am glad some people can joke, or do you really not know what an iron is?


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

Impy said:


> Angry at women much? Really, why does this bother you so much? It's rather simple - for most of us, beating a guy up a hill *is* a big deal because guys are usually faster. What part of that is hard to understand? And what part of that is so wrong?


I really love women, alot. I just don't get why some seem to gage themselves but what guys think or can do. Just because a guy in tennis shoes was dumb and didnt like a girl passing him doesnt really mean much, he wasnt a mtn biker, was he? Nah, probably not. There is nothing wrong with doing your best, or comparing your skills to someone, but come on, you're bothered by a guy in tennis shoes. I am sure your a very good rider and if I were to ride with you or any other woman, I would not and have not made the mistake of thinking because I am a guy I can out ride her. I rode with a group once and there was 3 or 4 women riding with us, 3 were kind of slow (slower than I am), and the other was crazy fast. We rode a ridge, then took a quick left where you had to stop and turn your bike 90 degrees, then reclip and head down the side of a root infested trail. I was following the fast girl, barely keeping up, then when we got to the left turn, she stopped, turned, re clipped, and off she went. I, along with the other women and about 6 guys all said "foook that!!!". It doesnt matter whether it was a girl or a guy, and without a doubt, she didnt do the nasty trail all because a bunch of guys were watching. She rides, and doesnt sit around wondering or hoping she can beat (drop) guys.


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## Aquaholic (Jan 13, 2004)

*Fast girls!*

If you ever see this woman on the trail...I don't care if you are a man or a woman.......you would be quite foolish if you try to hang with her.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

Joe Dirt said:


> lol. I am glad some people can joke, or do you really not know what an iron is?


isn't that what you use to apply wax to your skis?

rt


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

hehe. i remember being in the pool with my training partner Karen and we were stuck behind this guy who would swerve across the lane every time we tried to pass. we were in one of the "faster" lanes so regardless of our gender he should have moved to a slower lane, but seemed convinced that he could out-swim us. eventually we took turns swimming on his heels literally touching his feet with every stroke. i think this lasted a couple laps before he finally got so annoyed that he got out of the pool. 

i won't even attempt to recount the number of times i've encountered the testosterone-laden "dude" who either wouldn't let me pass or blew up trying to hang with me on a climb. (which isn't to say that i haven't been passed and dropped on climbs by people of both genders even more times than i can count.)

rt


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

*rt* said:


> hehe. i remember being in the pool with my training partner Karen and we were stuck behind this guy who would swerve across the lane every time we tried to pass. we were in one of the "faster" lanes so regardless of our gender he should have moved to a slower lane, but seemed convinced that he could out-swim us. eventually we took turns swimming on his heels literally touching his feet with every stroke. i think this lasted a couple laps before he finally got so annoyed that he got out of the pool.
> 
> i won't even attempt to recount the number of times i've encountered the testosterone-laden "dude" who either wouldn't let me pass or blew up trying to hang with me on a climb. (which isn't to say that i haven't been passed and dropped on climbs by people of both genders even more times than i can count.)
> 
> rt


Swimmers are worse than anyone. They have no intentions on circle swimming, no matter many people are in the lane, and your right, they hate having people pass them, male of female. What lanes are considered the faster lanes? Do you find swimming helps with your riding?


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

Joe Dirt said:


> Swimmers are worse than anyone. They have no intentions on circle swimming, no matter many people are in the lane, and your right, they hate having people pass them, male of female. What lanes are considered the faster lanes? Do you find swimming helps with your riding?


the pool i swam in had 8 lanes. the first 2 lanes (far right as you entered the pool) were designated with a sign for "slow" swimming, and the 2 lanes at the far left were designated with a sign for "fast" swimming. the remaining 4 middle lanes were for moderate speed swimming. most of the time swimmers respected the lane designations.

to be honest, i haven't been in a pool in 5 years. i tore my rotator cuff and that pretty much took me out of swimming. however, i have been thinking about getting back into it at some point because, if nothing else, it would be great for cross training.

rt


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## santa_cruzer (Mar 22, 2005)

*should have quit while you were ahead*



dirtmistress said:


> Remember when Thelma and Louise came out? I didnt read a single review by a man that didnt call that movie insulting to men. Man bashers they said! Yet too many movies have women being raped, murdered, disfigured and who knows what else and no one says anything. Puh-leeeeze!!
> Joe Dirt, you need to dress like Tootsie and git on out in your high steppin' pumps and live life on this side for awhile.
> If we revel in the fact that we beat you up the hill then wer'e man bashers, if we don't beat you up the hill then we are weak girls. Can't we do anything right? Can't we be competitive? Can't we kick someones A** and have bragging rights to it? Geez dude! Whatcha scared of?


really?


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## Mary Ann (Jan 13, 2004)

There's a difference between "public" swimmers and "masters" swimmers. Masters swimmers usually know lane etiquette and swim in circles and put themselves in the proper lanes for their speed (aforementioned "blow hards" excepted). And coaches are on hand to enforce the situation if someone breaches the etiquette. (i.e. they'll usually ask a consistently slower swimmer to move to a different lane, especially if someone in the lane complains). 

Public swimmers may or may not have experience swimming in a groups so your comments "swimers are worse than anyone" may be more applicable to that situation than masters.

As for helping riding, swimming's definitely a boost to endurance. I like that it's not weather dependent so I can get a regular workout even if the snow sucks for skiing or it's raining cats and dogs and I don't want to bike.

Mary Ann


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

Mary Ann said:


> There's a difference between "public" swimmers and "masters" swimmers. Masters swimmers usually know lane etiquette and swim in circles and put themselves in the proper lanes for their speed (aforementioned "blow hards" excepted). And coaches are on hand to enforce the situation if someone breaches the etiquette. (i.e. they'll usually ask a consistently slower swimmer to move to a different lane, especially if someone in the lane complains).
> 
> Public swimmers may or may not have experience swimming in a groups so your comments "swimers are worse than anyone" may be more applicable to that situation than masters.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info.


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

*rt* said:


> the pool i swam in had 8 lanes. the first 2 lanes (far right as you entered the pool) were designated with a sign for "slow" swimming, and the 2 lanes at the far left were designated with a sign for "fast" swimming. the remaining 4 middle lanes were for moderate speed swimming. most of the time swimmers respected the lane designations.
> 
> to be honest, i haven't been in a pool in 5 years. i tore my rotator cuff and that pretty much took me out of swimming. however, i have been thinking about getting back into it at some point because, if nothing else, it would be great for cross training.
> 
> rt


I have never seen a pool divided that way, makes sense though. I swim, but havent really thought about using it to train for biking.


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## Mary Ann (Jan 13, 2004)

At the pool where I swim, they only put the pool in lanes like that for adult-only/or fitness swims. They don't bother with lane ropes for the recreational swims. So if you do wish to do laps for cross training, be sure to check the schedule for adult-only times, or you will end up being both annoyed and annoying trying to swim laps during a rec swim.


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

dirtmistress said:


> MAN!! That was great! Funny as hell. Sounds like the voices keep rolling along in your head!!
> I'm too lazy and sick right now to look up Julie Furtado's stats but I believe she placed in the top 10 or closer with the pro men back in her day. I'll bet many women have done the same.
> As for Joe Dirt.. Seriously, You will NEVER,EVER understand what it is like to be a woman until you ride with a guy on a hill one lousy mile in a womans cleats and sports bra! Most guys are great. I know it and all the women here know it, but once in awhile, we come across one guy that you can tell has a problem with being with a woman thats better than him. You can feel it. Just a little something he may do. Do I get caught up in it? You bet! Competition can be fun! This is a way to let some ego bloated guy know that they are not always the best just because they are a guy. When we get to the top and he says good job,I say the same back. If they beat me, I tell them to watch their back next time..with a smile. It's all good!!
> Remember when Thelma and Louise came out? I didnt read a single review by a man that didnt call that movie insulting to men. Man bashers they said! Yet too many movies have women being raped, murdered, disfigured and who knows what else and no one says anything. Puh-leeeeze!!
> ...


lol, I am not going to wear a sports bra damn it.  Have I dug a hole?


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

check this post...nice write up and pictures


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

Mary Ann said:


> At the pool where I swim, they only put the pool in lanes like that for adult-only/or fitness swims. They don't bother with lane ropes for the recreational swims. So if you do wish to do laps for cross training, be sure to check the schedule for adult-only times, or you will end up being both annoyed and annoying trying to swim laps during a rec swim.


if i decide to start swimming again i'm going to see if i cant' get a membership to the GA Tech pool which was the one they built for the '96 olympics.  i'd be sure to go only during times when the lane ropes are up!

rt


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## zenmonkey (Nov 21, 2004)

Impy said:


> I saw that guy and I felt really good knowing that I could iron 3 shirts at the same rate that he just ironed one! I just had to keep my heart rate down and stuff, of course.


 fanny pack


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hey
at 52 I'm just happy to make it up the hill,  
In my group there are 4 women and 5 men, 3 of the women and 4 of the men are pretty much equal in riding abilities, somedays one of us will be on fire and other days someone else will, then there is 1 woman and 1 man who pretty much allways dominate. Doesn't matter if its a woman or a man the biggest difference is the amount of riding they do 
BTW the alpha male hates to be second, wont even finish his drink if someone takes off but nobody likes riding with him.


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## jason_21218 (Feb 2, 2006)

*I sure dont mind being dropped by chic riders*

For one thing....If she's hot in lycra, I'd love to see her go.

Also, any girl passing a guy is hoping deep down he's gonna try and catch her. Let the games begin.....

You have us right where we want you...


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## Martin.au (Jan 1, 2006)

Hehe, my girlfriend drops me on hills all the time. It normally depends who's having the better day. Personally I don't care who overtakes me, unless it's a Jack Russell Terrier. I hate those little yappy dogs. It's also always good to get a laugh from someone who flies past and then stalls 100m ahead.


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## pacman (Jan 16, 2004)

*The absolute joy of being*



dirtmistress said:


> that's turning the screws on you on a hill. You know he's trying to drop you because you are a "girl". The shame of it all if you are first to the top! The wicked feeling of satisfaction,guilt free,when you realize he's going harder and faster and you're on his wheel and you feel like you're only at 80%. He keeps glancing back and then suddenly, you're half-wheeling him and then, his raspy breathing giving everything away,you pass him! Ciao Bella!


We had a long epic day, on the way back I was in the front but one girl kept right with me. The others looked dog-tired but she wasn't falling back. This kept up until the long descent to the cars. Before I knew what was happening we were going faster and faster, somebody wants to be first! A race had started. She had a geared FS and I had a SS hardtail, with the handicap it was a fair game. I was hanging on behind her -- hoping to find the speed and a way to pass. We came upon a level section .. I saw that the passing on the right would be the way to go. I waited, she had the same thought. I waited. She turned her head to see why I wasn't passing, but as soon as she turned her head I hammered to the left and passed. She shreiked and laughed! Who finally won? Who cares - we both laughed at the end.


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## Atomic300 (Feb 9, 2004)

I think now that any girl, women can beat me up a hill, so, but much more fun winning over them at ultimate (frisbee). OK some are vey good but still cool beating them.


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## shanedawg (Jan 9, 2004)

Ever stop to think there might be other reasons why a guy is speeding up to keep you close by? They may be trying to catch back up to you so they could ask you if you are single. Guys who ride almost always want to be with a girl who rides too.

If you girls would pull that competitive filter away from your eyes and stop trying to beat all the guys up the hill you might give a guy a chance to introduce himself. Instead of a boyfriend all you have is a story to come here and gloat about on mtbr. Humility is a very attractive trait in a woman btw. If you know you can beat a man up a hill, isn't that enough?


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

*just you wait, Mr. Bart...*



Black Bart said:


> "I am a golden god."


Your golden glimmer will diminish when Impy unleashes the next zone... live in fear! ;-)


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## bstiff (Jul 21, 2004)

dirtmistress said:


> I'm too lazy and sick right now to look up Julie Furtado's stats but I believe she placed in


Tsk, tsk.

There's no "e" in Juliana's name.


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## Black Bart (Apr 19, 2004)

chuky said:


> Your golden glimmer will diminish when Impy unleashes the next zone... live in fear! ;-)


Oh great, now both of you will beat me up the climbs! What am I going to do to boost my ego? I've tried riding with senior citizens, cause that sounded like easy prey, but dangit, Pacman kicked my butt too.

Oh well, I guess I'll just be happy racing past tourists on the bike path.


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

As with anything relating to physical strength and gender.. it's all about the level of fitness of the individual athlete...

Basically, take a 36 year old 6'0 200lbs out of shape chump like me who's not worked out for 10 years, and just now got back into bikes, and place him on the trail with a 36 year old 5'6 120lbs top shape gal who's been at it for the past 10 years and guess what the result is???

On the other end, take the top 5% male against any female and what are you going to get?

It's self evident in all sports (biking being just one), where they usually have separate leagues/organizations for men and women (i.e. LPGA, PGA).... if you didn't do this, then the world of sports would have no women champions, which psychologically isn't good for young girls like my 3 year old, which may never have a role model.

I see it like this.. *I am glad women are "the weaker sex"! Otherwise I'd have to marry and have sex with a person who's 6'0 and 190lbs!* and I don't want that in a women, I want the 5'8 130lbs max! Same goes for what women want, they probably want to marry a man who's a bit larger and stronger (although I'm sure some one is a going to disagree, there are always statistical outliers), but that's just what nature ordered, lets celebrate it, rather than fight it!


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## lebikerboy (Jan 19, 2005)

I've ridden with Alison Sydor and Lesley Tomlinson and trust me they kick my ass every time out!


edoz said:


> I was on a club ride once and as we headed uphill, a girl I know was in a small group that was motoring past me like I was standing still. She even had the breath to yell at some guy for not holding his line. This was while I was wondering if vomit will eat through the paint on my top tube before I got home. I figured I shouldn't sweat it until I get dropped by some chick that weighs what I do. Yeah. When I see a 195lb girl fly by me, IT"S ON!


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

lebikerboy said:


> I've ridden with Alison Sydor and Lesley Tomlinson and trust me they kick my ass every time out!


And would you be a pro-rider like them? That's my point.. let's compare apples to apples..

The point that the moderator made earlier is right on... When the girls beat the guy up the hill, it's cool and gives them a sense of accomplishment well deserved.


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## Billy Zoom (Dec 31, 2003)

*How about BEING dropped? Sometimes that's fun too.*

I've got to admit that although I try to pretend I'm not competitive, I am. When combined with testosterone, it's scary.

On one of my first road rides on my then new bike, I was trying to get familiar with my heart rate monitor. I thought it was pretty amazing that it would make different sounds to keep you in your target heart rate, would give an alert if you dropped too high or low, etc.

I climbed a pretty good hill and saw a, uh, OLDER rider on a nice road bike, all lycraed out, resting at the top. Gave him the quick once over instinctively, said a quick hi, and continued along, pushing myself a bit.

Now I'm on a flat path, moving along at what I thought was a blindingly fast clip, and I hear a almost subliminal "whir" gaining on me. I push a little harder, but it keeps gaining. I glance back just in time to see him beginning to pass me on the left. He says hi again and starts to pull away. I focus on not breathing hard enough for him to hear me until he passes.

Once he's in front, I stand up and try to match his pace. He's ultra smooth, legs are spinning quickly but effortlessly. I'm pushing as hard as I can, trying not to breathe so he can hear me, and I last no more than 30 yards when BEEEEEEEP BEEEEEEEP BEEEEEP BEEEEEEEP! My stinking heart rate monitor ratted me out! I burst out laughing and slowed down to prevent a stroke. He just pedaled away at the same rate. Apparently he was unaware that we were racing at a feverish clip.

He inspired me. The bastard. 

Joel


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## MtbGirl32 (Jul 15, 2004)

Christine said:


> mwahahahaha!!!!
> 
> Of course it's only satisfying if you know the guy has a problem with the fact that you're a woman and he's clearly struggling for that reason alone. The guys I ride with are cool and don't care- I'm just one of them and usually in the middle of the pack.


Yep... I ride with some of the same guys Chris rides with and they are cool about things. In fact, I ride with one hammerhead in particular who is patient and doesn't mind waiting a little for me, he's even taught me a lot about technique and handling.

As for my fiance, he lets me lead because I like to fly (I'm sure there's another reason as well  ) and what does it matter?? He catches up to me on the hills anyway... and almost always passes me!! Doesn't bother me, he's the mountain goat - I am not.


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## calgarydave (Jan 12, 2004)

*Wife playing with other guys.*

Ok, so the title caught your attention but it's all about context.

I used to get a kick out of watching guys bust their ass trying to keep up with my wife. We were both training for the TransRockies Challenge in 2004 and we'd go for a flat spin after work for easier recovery rides. We'd leave our house around 5pm and take the commuter bike paths along the Bow River in Calgary, along with many commuters of varying fitness levels. We'd ride together until we got near the downtown area then I'd ease off and hold a position about 50 meters behind her and wait for the inevitable testosterone festival to begin.
It was amazing to watch how many guys would hammer to get into her draft, faces turning red, legs pounding squares at 60rpm to her efficient 110rpm spin. Some evenings there would be a line of 10-12 guys, most jockeying for a chance to try and pass her. Of course she'd hear the huffing and puffing behind and when the lead dog would make his move she'd gently ramp up the pace, open a small gap, and all manner of cursing would stream back as the pack lost its form. 
The best were the stylin' type-A office dudes, 5'9"/220lbs of deal-making donut-loving stress, on shiny $3000 full-suspension mtb's with slick tires. I'd pull up beside them with a casual "Hey, how's it going? Nice night for a ride isn't it?" The standard response was usually a gasping, spittle-laced expletive describing my lovely wife in a non-complimentary manner.
Great entertainment.

Have fun,
Dave


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## freeridermtb4 (Feb 21, 2006)

damn I wish a girl would beat me on a climb, but sadly I dont know a single girl my age in socal that rides : (


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## ps249 (Jan 8, 2006)

dirtmistress said:


> that's turning the screws on you on a hill. You know he's trying to drop you because you are a "girl". The shame of it all if you are first to the top! The wicked feeling of satisfaction,guilt free,when you realize he's going harder and faster and you're on his wheel and you feel like you're only at 80%. He keeps glancing back and then suddenly, you're half-wheeling him and then, his raspy breathing giving everything away,you pass him! Ciao Bella!


Good for you dirtbag. How come you never do tech-talk out here? Its always gossip and gab gab. Thats OK cause when you fall on your bike- your man is gonna laugh really hard inside! haha


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## Martin.au (Jan 1, 2006)

> Good for you dirtbag. How come you never do tech-talk out here? Its always gossip and gab gab. Thats OK cause when you fall on your bike- your man is gonna laugh really hard inside! haha


Maybe I'm reading this out of context but this post makes it seem as though someone's feeling inadequate.


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## biggsmoothe (Nov 3, 2005)

IMHO, it seems like a lot of people feel guilty for dropping someone else. why? if you train hard and put in all that work over a period of years and years, and bought all your nice equipment in an effort to become a better rider, then you damn sure shouldn't feel guilty for dropping someone. who cares if they weren't racing you? who cares if it was a n00b? who cares if it was an obese, out of shape dude (or chic) on a beach cruiser? who cares if it was a one legged grandmother?  kick their azz up that hill and feel no guilt. they weren't the ones busting their azzes for the past however many years to put themselves in that position. and if you do find yourself in an impromtu race from time to time, try to kick their azz too. seems like people try to avoid confrontations like that. they want to supress their competitive instincts. why? just go for it! don't make excuses regarding their size, gender, conditioning, equipment, etc. if you win, great, you deserve to win. don't feel guilty. if you get beat, don't get all defensive and whine about it. use that bitter taste to pump you up for your training. and if you don't have a bitter taste from getting beat, then maybe you should be riding a beach cruiser. i've gotten dropped way more than i have dropped, but i think i've pushed myself and learned a lot more from being dropped, which has made me a better rider. just my $.02.


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

You know, I hear women brag about this all the time, and I simply don't buy it. I don't beleive it ever happens. Aside from the fact that men are generally stronger than women, I can tell you as a guy that no man is going to subject himself to that kind of humiliation. He'll play it cool, he'll never make it look like he's trying to beat her, and if she does beat him to the top he'd never act as though he tried to beat her.

Your post makes two things clear, Dirtmistress. One, you don't understand men, and two, you have some serious gender issues of your own.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Come on*

Come on, I get passed by women on virtually every ride. And I have been passed by Dirtmistress. Regardless of gender, fitter and younger people are faster.


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

Right, and what do you do? Do you immediately begin pedalling furiously in an attempt to prevent the "girl" from passing you? No, you play it cool, regardless of what might be going through your head. That's what guys do. I know that because I'm a guy, and I've been on enough mixed gender rides to extrapolate an general truism: the scenario that Dirtmistress describes simply doesn't happen. Oh I'm sure she passes guys, but they don't respond the way she describes. Never. She only claims that they do, because not only does it demean men (all men), but it also makes her feel big, and tough, and superior.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

biggsmoothe said:
 

> IMHO, it seems like a lot of people feel guilty for dropping someone else. why? if you train hard and put in all that work over a period of years and years, and bought all your nice equipment in an effort to become a better rider, then you damn sure shouldn't feel guilty for dropping someone. who cares if they weren't racing you? who cares if it was a n00b? who cares if it was an obese, out of shape dude (or chic) on a beach cruiser? who cares if it was a one legged grandmother?  kick their azz up that hill and feel no guilt. they weren't the ones busting their azzes for the past however many years to put themselves in that position. and if you do find yourself in an impromtu race from time to time, try to kick their azz too. seems like people try to avoid confrontations like that. they want to supress their competitive instincts. why? just go for it! don't make excuses regarding their size, gender, conditioning, equipment, etc. if you win, great, you deserve to win. don't feel guilty. if you get beat, don't get all defensive and whine about it. use that bitter taste to pump you up for your training. and if you don't have a bitter taste from getting beat, then maybe you should be riding a beach cruiser. i've gotten dropped way more than i have dropped, but i think i've pushed myself and learned a lot more from being dropped, which has made me a better rider. just my $.02.


Exactly! (although I'm getting pretty sick of that bitter taste)


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

Where do you plug that thing in?


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

Wherewolf said:


> Come on, I get passed by women on virtually every ride. And I have been passed by Dirtmistress. Regardless of gender, fitter and younger people are faster.


You're 1/2 right... "Fitter" is faster... Younger isn't always the case....

The DOD did a lot of research on this while I was in the Army back in the early 90's as there was a lot of pressure to open the combat arms to women, which even under the liberal and pro-feminist Clinton Admin, was disapproved.. They did open some Aviation and Navy jobs however, and the jury is out on whether this will work out has there hasn't, and likely never will be a major Naval battle between us and another nation able to harm our Naval vessels. Thus the Fire control duties that a Naval crewman must have are slightly mitigated.

However, it has been born out by scientific study after study... But I always just like to say... you can just watch ESPN's Firefighters challenge and see how "self evident" it is..

Youth is a major factor in strength and endurance, however GENDER is the major factor.

In the ESPN example... you'll witness the PEAK condition women going up against PEAK condition men in the sense that they use the SAME obstacle course and are timed in how long it takes them to finnish the course..

It is CONSISTENTLY the case that the Men across all age groups, up thru the late 40's "Fire Chief" level.. are SIGNIFICANTLY faster than the women at the course..

God/Nature made us this way, and no amount of political correctness, social engineering or idealism (Communism even tried, and failed).. will change this "Self Evident" fact.

That doesn't mean that the Bell Curve doesn't have statistical outliers where the strongest women will always be stronger than the weakest men... but pound for pound, due to physiology a man is going to be stronger.. i.e. if a 150lb man in perfect shape were to test against a 150lb woman in perfect shape, he'll be stronger by a good margin.. that said, most men are significantly heavier than women, which further lends in their favor for strength.

You can watch all the Hollywood movies you want with these skinny attractive women stars that kick some tough guys ass and believe what you want.. but it doesn't change reality.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Blue Sugar said:


> Right, and what do you do? Do you immediately begin pedalling furiously in an attempt to prevent the "girl" from passing you? No, you play it cool, regardless of what might be going through your head. That's what guys do. I know that because I'm a guy, and I've been on enough mixed gender rides to extrapolate an general truism: the scenario that Dirtdiva describes simply doesn't happen. Oh I'm sure she passes guys, but they don't respond the way she describes. Never. She only claims that they do, because not only does it demean men (all men), but it also makes her feel big, and tough, and superior.


Some guys play it cool, some guys go faster because being passed (by anyone) reminds me, i mean, them, that they are not as fast as they want to be, and other dudes go faster because they truly do not want to be passed by a girl... or someone on a full suspension, or someone on a cheap bike, or someone on a nice bike, or the person who had a nicer car at the trailhead, or the guy with the beer gut and baggies, etc. There are many types of personal issues out there on the trail.

Ant


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

And I think it's safe to argue that the women who go into firefighting are among the "statistical outlyers" of the bell curve- they're among the strongest women physically. I would also argue that the men in this case are closer to the middle of the bell curve. And the fact that the men still beat them by fairly comfortable margins only reinforces your argument. And that's not meant to demean women- it's just a statement of fact.


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

No I don't buy it, it's a fiction created by angry women to demean men. A guy would never humiliate himself in that way. Dirtmistress is clearly harboring some gender grudges, and her avatars (Zena the Warrior Princess, a pure work of fiction-nay-fantasy) drive that point home. 

The only plausable reason why a guy would speed up when seeing a woman approach him from behind is because he doesn't want to hold her up, a pure act of chivalry. You know how us guys are around women.


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

antonio said:


> Some guys play it cool, some guys go faster because being passed (by anyone) reminds me, i mean, them, that they are not as fast as they want to be, and other dudes go faster because they truly do not want to be passed by a girl... or someone on a full suspension, or someone on a cheap bike, or someone on a nice bike, or the person who had a nicer car at the trailhead, or the guy with the beer gut and baggies, etc. There are many types of personal issues out there on the trail.
> 
> Ant


not to go way off topic,

But this is sometimes why I hate to be out at at trial on the weekend with other more seasoned riders... I have a very high end bike, that is clearly above my current level of biking... but I am fearful some guy is going to pass me on a $300 Walmart bike and laugh at me since I'm riding the fancy bike but can't peddle as fast as a 20 year old! 

Anyway, I have a pre-packaged response for this should it happen that I got from a member on this forum.. "I can always improve as a biker rider, but you're bike will always be a piece of ****!"


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

Blue Sugar said:


> And I think it's safe to argue that the women who go into firefighting are among the "statistical outlyers" of the bell curve- they're among the strongest women physically. I would also argue that the men in this case are closer to the middle of the bell curve. And the fact that the men still beat them by fairly comfortable margins only reinforces your argument. And that's not meant to demean women- it's just a statement of fact.


Actually many women firefighters aren't in the top tier of female strength.. you're be surprised how low the standards of physical fitness are for women in the Fire/Police dept are ... They're set up so that pretty much any woman who wants the job, and is in reasonable shape can get it... it's just that most women don't want those jobs, which is why they are a minority in these professions...

I saw a picture of the bell curve done by the Army study on women and men's upper and lower body strength, and stamina.. and the crossover was less than 5% I recall in all cases.


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## litespeedchick (Jan 13, 2004)

Well, I think you just explained why it's fun for a girl to beat a guy at something athletic. It just underlines which side of the bell curve said female is riding on. 

It's rare that I encounter guys who are just dying not to get passed by me. But, I think it's normal to pick up your pace when you hear another rider approaching. It tends to remind me to stop looking at the wildflowers and move my ass.


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

litespeedchick said:


> Well, I think you just explained why it's fun for a girl to beat a guy at something athletic. It just underlines which side of the bell curve said female is riding on.
> 
> It's rare that I encounter guys who are just dying not to get passed by me. But, I think it's normal to pick up your pace when you hear another rider approaching. It tends to remind me to stop looking at the wildflowers and move my ass.


If that picture in the Avitar is you, than I'm sure you'll be passing most guys! you're prolly a 1% bell curve female with those arms!


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

But the women who compete in firefighting contests are going to be among the "statistical outliers", while the men will be closer to the middle.

And weren't the entry standards for women toughened?

In the early 1990's I took several police entry exams, and can remember a lot of women flunking the agility (physical) test. Most flunked because they couldn't complete the 1 1/2 mile run or the requisite number of situps.


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

_It's rare that I encounter guys who are just dying not to get passed by me. _

Don't buy it, sorry. Remember, I'm a guy, and I know how we think.


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

Blue Sugar said:


> But the women who compete in firefighting contests are going to be among the "statistical outliers", while the men will be closer to the middle.


That may well be true... At least it looks to be the case when I watch the show.



> And weren't the entry standards for women toughened?


In keeping with the slight off topic discussion..

That is determined locality by locality... in liberal areas like SF and other major metropolitan areas they go out of their way to open the doors to females so their requirements are very low... According to an old supreme court rule that I can't specifically site, but had something to do with loosening the requirements by the Airlines for women pilot applicants... it's illegal to have gender blind absolute physical requirements if you cannot prove beyond any reasonable doubt that strength is always going to make a difference in job performance.. The military was exempt from this rule..

But for example, if a Boeing 747-200 which has hydro-mechanical back up were to loose all hydraulics it would be EXTREMELY stiff to control on manual reversion, but since statistically it's nearly impossible to have this type of failure, women must be allowed to fly these aircraft even if they don't have the physical strength to manipulate the controls.

Oddly, Capt Al Haynes of UAL fame and his crew of 3 struggled very physically to bring down his DC-10 when it lost all hydraulics in 1989... and 12 years earlier Capt Bryce McCormick had the same failure in a DC-10 with American and both said it was dauntingly hard to keep the aircraft steady with 2 or 3 men on the controls.. which leads one to ask... what if by some strange coincidence a crew of all 120lb women were in the front office?


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

_ what if by some strange coincidence a crew of all 120lb women were in the front office? [/QUOTE]_

There'd be trouble, in the air and on the ground (and that's not meant to demean female pilots).


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

_Oddly, Capt Al Haynes of UAL fame and his crew of 3 struggled very physically to bring down his DC-10 when it lost all hydraulics in 1989... _

Was thet the case where the tail engine blew, and took out the rudder controls? One of the passengers was a pilot from another airline?


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

Blue Sugar said:


> Was thet the case where the tail engine blew, and took out the rudder controls? One of the passengers was a pilot from another airline?


The "Pax" in the back, was an "on-line" jump seater, or a UAL pilot, who also, buy stroke of luck was a DC-10 instructor and familiar with Bryce McCormicks case at AA, so while the two pilots struggled with minimal rudder and cable back up controls, he manipulated the throttle quadrant using the two wing mounted engines and differential power to adjust pitch attitude and keep the aircraft laterally & longitudinally stable.. Bryce was luckier in that he had the #2 engine (on the tail) which gave up more pitch authority... but both were flying 500,000lb planes with cables and pulleys and no hydraulic power!


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

Yes I saw a TV show about that. If I remember right, the explosion blew out the rudder controls completely (backup included), as well as a good portion of the tail, and they could only steer the plane by modulating the port and starboard engines. BTW aren't those engines on the fuselage of a DC-10, not the wings? The landing was ugly, but could have been a lot worse. That was quite a peice of flying, and teamwork. It kind of lays waste to the notion that men can't work well as a team.

While I'm no pilot, I did take the stick of a Piper Cub for a few minutes once.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Stupid assumption*



Blue Sugar said:


> Right, and what do you do? Do you immediately begin pedalling furiously in an attempt to prevent the "girl" from passing you? No, you play it cool, regardless of what might be going through your head. That's what guys do. I know that because I'm a guy, and I've been on enough mixed gender rides to extrapolate an general truism: the scenario that Dirtmistress describes simply doesn't happen. Oh I'm sure she passes guys, but they don't respond the way she describes. Never. She only claims that they do, because not only does it demean men (all men), but it also makes her feel big, and tough, and superior.


Don't assume that everybody is insecure like you. It's no big deal, I get passed all the time. I worry about what I'm doing, not everybody else. And my name and cool have never been used in the same sentence without the word not. Impy passes me, Lemonhead passes me, Dustbunny passes me. Let's see, what other women have I ridden with....?


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

Blue Sugar said:


> Yes I saw a TV show about that. If I remember right, the explosion blew out the rudder controls completely (backup included), as well as a good portion of the tail, and they could only steer the plane by modulating the port and starboard engines. BTW aren't those engines on the fuselage of a DC-10, not the wings? The landing was ugly, but could have been a lot worse. That was quite a peice of flying, and teamwork. It kind of lays waste to the notion that men can't work well as a team.
> 
> While I'm no pilot, I did take the stick of a Piper Cub for a few minutes once.


No, three engines.. one on each wing, and one at the tail... and as you can see from the throttle quadrant (middle of the two pilots seats).. the Training pilot sat on his knees there and worked those throttles while the others had their hands full on the controls.. or lack thereof!

AS for the topic at hand.... I must agree with Wolf.. I don't mind if a woman passes me, so long as she's younger and looks like she's been doing this a lot longer than I.. but I would be feel a bit wimpy if I had been riding intensely for a couple of years and a woman walked away from me on her bike.. that's just normal male ego, if you don't have it then maybe your a rare case.. 

btw... Wolf... I see you hurt your knees pretty badly.. so maybe this is why you're being passed up... It looks like you're a serious rider to me however, and maybe if you were not injured there would be a small handful of women that could take you...


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

*Who's insecure?*

I'm not the slightest bit insecure. I could care less who passes me. The only time I don't like being passed is when a downhill or singletrack approaches, and I know I'm faster there than the person passing. I will admit to posesing a vein of shivalry, and trying not to get in a woman's way. It seems I try harder to stay out of a woman's way than a man's, and I think it's true of most men. Why is that? That would make an intersting topic of discussion.

And by the way, who's to say a woman isn't trying to prove something by passing a man?


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

_....that's just normal male ego, if you don't have it then maybe your a rare case.. _

No, sorry, I'm not going to budge here. This type of "Male ego" is a figment of the feminist movement and popular culture. It's always portrayed derogatorily, and as a weakness. Men are said to have it because they're insecure, and their shows of superior strength are portrayed as attempts to demean women, keep them down.

As I said I've been on many mixed gender rides, and their was usually a lot of posturing going on, but never of the type Dirtmistress describes.


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

*One last question....*

The cockpit photo shows three seats, pilot, co-pilot, and flight engineer. I thought only a 747 used a flight engineer. What gives?


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Blue Sugar said:


> No, sorry, I'm not going to budge here. This type of "Male ego" is a figment of the feminist movement and popular culture. It's always portrayed derogatorily, and as a weakness. Men are said to have it because they're insecure, and their shows of superior strength are portrayed as attempts to demean women, keep them down.
> 
> As I said I've been on many mixed gender rides, and their was usually a lot of posturing going on, but never of the type Dirtmistress describes.


"Figment of the feminist movement"?!?!? You are blessed in that you have been around only great people in your life, because I've seen this "figment" manifested in many ways and many places. Or perhaps your own "male ego" blinds you from seeing it in other males? Or maybe you're just a troll, looking to have some fun in the women's lounge by discrediting the opinions and experiences of others?

BTW, like you, I've been on many mixed gender rides, and I am a man, so I believe this makes me an expert on this issue, just like you.

Ant


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

Blue Sugar said:


> The cockpit photo shows three seats, pilot, co-pilot, and flight engineer. I thought only a 747 used a flight engineer. What gives?


Every wide body, long range aircraft made from late 60's thru the early 80's had a FE, only the new generation of "Glass" cockpits do away with FE's as computers now handle it all.. There are still usually 3 or even 4 pilots on board... but one is knows as a "bunkie" or "sleeping for dollars" pilot as he's there to relieve the other two after they hit their 10 hour legal limit.. as some flights can last upwards of 18 hours..

Here is an Airbus cockpit, but the MD-11 (next gen DC-10) and the new 747-400's are all the same way...


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

antonio said:


> "Figment of the feminist movement"?!?!? You are blessed in that you have been around only great people in your life, because I've seen this "figment" manifested in many ways and many places. Or perhaps your own "male ego" blinds you from seeing it in other males? Or maybe you're just a troll, looking to have some fun in the women's lounge by discrediting the opinions and experiences of others?
> 
> BTW, like you, I've been on many mixed gender rides, and I am a man, so I believe this makes me an expert on this issue, just like you.
> 
> Ant


I'm not sure he's a troll just because he sees things differently that you... Or are are you implying there is no feminist agenda? I see both sides of this debate.. The fact is that there are men with ego's and men without (or much less), and there are women with a chip on their shoulder and some without.. it's not all black and white in this world.


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## ps249 (Jan 8, 2006)

dirtmistress said:


> that's turning the screws on you on a hill. You know he's trying to drop you because you are a "girl". The shame of it all if you are first to the top! The wicked feeling of satisfaction,guilt free,when you realize he's going harder and faster and you're on his wheel and you feel like you're only at 80%. He keeps glancing back and then suddenly, you're half-wheeling him and then, his raspy breathing giving everything away,you pass him! Ciao Bella!


Typical saddle-thigh response. You must have taken a big fall off your bike lately because I can tell your brains are scrambled. Now get back in the kitchen!


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

CE750 said:


> I'm not sure he's a troll just because he sees things differently that you... Or are are you implying there is no feminist agenda? I see both sides of this debate.. The fact is that there are men with ego's and men without (or much less), and there are women with a chip on their shoulder and some without.. it's not all black and white in this world.


"Troll" not because we don't see eye to eye, but because he seems to want to push peoples buttons, first by putting Dirtmistress on the spot, then by criticizing the Feminist Movement on the Women's Lounge. It seems like his goal may be to illicit a negative reaction, and I wonder why. I agree that there are women with chips on their shoulders, and that there are men with negative "male ego's". And I wouldn't claim that either is a "figment".

Ant


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

ps249 said:


> Typical saddle-thigh response. You must have taken a big fall off your bike lately because I can tell your brains are scrambled. Now get back in the kitchen!


Definite troll.


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

Well, I guess by the strict definition of a Troll, he may well fit.. But I think he makes some very good points, even if he is a bit hard headed and antagonistic.. 

This is one of those cases, like I tell my wife about her favorite talk radio show "Dr. Laura" where I agree with her message, but I can't listen to her because I hate the way she delivers it! Man I hate Dr. Laura!  She needs to learn from Dr. Phil! 

edit: BTW, don't read this as that I hate you Blue Sugar.. I'm just trying to make a point, what or whatever.


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## litespeedchick (Jan 13, 2004)

OK, you're proably right...but most of them don't let me see their angst. I have actually on occasion backed off before the top so a guy I'm riding with who has been pleasant can "win" in front of the guys waiting at the top. I am aware you guys have those egos.

Another common scenario is the guy who suddenly has to get off the bike and adjust his seatpost. Again, that works for more than just women passing you. In fact "adjusting your seatpost" has become a euphemism between myself and my husband to describe somebody who has given up on a climb.

Honestly, it's great to be a woman in this sport where you're such a minority. If I'm one of the fastest riders, then I'm awsome. And if I'm last, well, hell, I'm usually still the first woman.

CE750 - I hope that was a joke...If my 240 lb husband thought he could be mistaken for female he'd drop over dead. ;-)


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

litespeedchick said:


> Another common scenario is the guy who suddenly has to get off the bike and adjust his seatpost. Again, that works for more than just women passing you. In fact "adjusting your seatpost" has become a euphemism between myself and my husband to describe somebody who has given up on a climb.


LMFAO! 

I love that.. "adjust your seatpost".. I'll have to remember that to "Save face" next time my sorry out of shape ass is winded! 

I've got to get my bike a QR seat post clamp now!



> Honestly, it's great to be a woman in this sport where you're such a minority. If I'm one of the fastest riders, then I'm awsome. And if I'm last, well, hell, I'm usually still the first woman.


Good point.. you really "Can't win" or "Can't loose" 



> CE750 - I hope that was a joke...If my 240 lb husband thought he could be mistaken for female he'd drop over dead. ;-)


If there was a woman that looks like that, she should be forced to have a sex change! .. plus I saw your pic in your profile to make sure I was not going to offend you with my comment.. You're a woman alright!


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## edouble (Apr 16, 2004)

*i know 3 women...*

that can ride with just about anybody. they are all faster than me overall, but so what?. they're more experienced and train really hard, why shouldnt they see results?. its so cool to see a women thats into something for their own enjoyment and not just to be around some guy, which is wack imho. a women that goes hard, at anything, because THEY are into it is sexy as hell to me. for you guy's that cant handle that, it say's much more about you than it will ever say about the woman that dropped yo @SS . 
we need MORE women out there testing their limits, not less. if their limits happen to be higher than your's, so be it. i love to see anyone, male or female, ripping up singletrack, blasting up hill and flying down the other side. its even cooler when its a woman simply because its not something thats encouraged. which means she's into it for her own reasons. ITS A BEAUTIFUL THING .


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## trailgirl (Oct 25, 2005)

litespeedchick said:


> Honestly, it's great to be a woman in this sport where you're such a minority.


That's the truth for sure!
It seems that around here I'm the minority as a woman no matter what I'm doing, that's why I love it here. Well, that and the mountain biking and skiing.

Guys who are calling out the original poster should remember that this is the WOMEN'S LOUNGE


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

trailgirl said:


> Guys who are calling out the original poster should remember that this is the WOMEN'S LOUNGE


So true! And I love the feminine touch, with the pinkish purple.... But I got suckered into this discussion with that damn "New Posts" feature! I need to stick to the Ventana board!


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

_Or maybe you're just a troll......_

That's right, I'm a troll. I'm also a Neanderthal and a troglydite (did I spell that right?).

I'm not here to have any fun, but to make sure that both sides are heard- the woman's side and the troll side.


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

_...but most of them don't let me see their angst._

Very few have the angst, and none would let you see it.


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

_Definite troll._

He just doesn't get it! Too much testosterone! He's definitely is a troll, and a Neanderthal as well, not to mention a troglodyte. You certainly have an eye for them, Mr Antonio.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Blue Sugar said:


> _Definite troll._
> 
> He just doesn't get it! Too much testosterone! He's definitely is a troll, and a Neanderthal as well, not to mention a troglodyte. You certainly have an eye for them, Mr Antonio.


You're right, I'm wrong, PS249 is witty, dirtmistress is bitter, there are no idiot mountain bikers who hate being passed by those they deem inferior, you are the great defender of all men, and I need more testosterone.

Now beat it.


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## Blue Sugar (Feb 16, 2004)

I'm not trying to push people's buttons, I'm trying to make them think, to question their assumptions regarding gender.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

litespeedchick said:


> Another common scenario is the guy who suddenly has to get off the bike and adjust his seatpost. Again, that works for more than just women passing you. In fact "adjusting your seatpost" has become a euphemism between myself and my husband to describe somebody who has given up on a climb.


Also known as a fakechanical. It happens to guys also.


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## trailgirl (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Sugar said:


> I'm not here to have any fun, but to make sure that both sides are heard- the woman's side and the troll side.


LOL, isn't that what THE TROLL'S LOUNGE is for ??


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## Gevorg (Dec 7, 2004)

*Congratulation & Welcome to Hammerhead club*



dirtmistress said:


> that's turning the screws on you on a hill. You know he's trying to drop you because you are a "girl". The shame of it all if you are first to the top! The wicked feeling of satisfaction,guilt free,when you realize he's going harder and faster and you're on his wheel and you feel like you're only at 80%. He keeps glancing back and then suddenly, you're half-wheeling him and then, his raspy breathing giving everything away,you pass him! Ciao Bella!


Congratulation & Welcome to Hammerhead club.
Below are some loose rules that we hammerheads follow.
1. It is absolute joy to catch/drop anyone regardless of size/gender/bike/ride time etc.
2. Most favorite phrase to say "On your left"
3. Most hated phrase to hear "On your left"
4. We do not ride for fun, we ride to catch/drop/win checkpoints on any ride, i.e. to catch and destroy any confidence in any rider we see during the ride.
5. You have to be first in any ride, if you are not then die trying.
6. If you get dropped on the hill, measure what was time you got dropped by, and ride that hill many times until you beat the drop time, after that you set a camp by the that hill and wait for the person that dropped you and when he/she shows up (weeks later, eventually they all show up just be patient) you can show it to them and drop them.
7. If you do rule #6 all the times when you get dropped, the chances of you getting drop in the future will be minimal
8. Some math facts. 0 hammerheads is to few, 2 hammerheads are to many.
9. If you follow hammerheads rules, you will be evetually the only hammerhead due to rule #8, and will be the only rider in your group. Which means you won, but there is nobody around you to acknowledge, which means you lost and you are finsihed as a hammerhead since there is nobody to pass/drop/catch.
10. Based on the rule #9 now you have to reborn your self as something else if you want to keep riding (options are rec rider, commuter, ride for funand other low forms of riding)
11. To complete your transition to hammerhead make sure read the memoirs "Birth/Rise and Death/Fall of Hammerhead" and wear official hammerhead jerasey by primal wear shown below.


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## biking is my homeboy (Dec 21, 2005)

Berkeley Mike said:


> As I said, I am probably of the #1 School, except in the case of my High School girls, who, officially, don't have fannies or figures of any kind and exist only to be coached up the hill while you ride next to them and if they ever drop you on a climb you are overjoyed!


hmm....is that a wager?? No fannies my fanny!

I like the fact that I have days when I'm on and days when I'm off so I've been behind or in front of most people on the team. Today we were driving somewhere and we saw a biker going up a cross street and one of my friends said "Hey, I think that's Andrew" (Andrew is one of the guys on the team). And I was able to reply with, "I know this may seem weird, but I know for a fact that isn't Andrew. From being on the team, I've been riding with him for awhile now. I've not only learned how to ride, but I've learned pretty much what the ass of every person on the team looks like. I know for a fact that the ass of that boy is much too wide to be the ass of Andrew. Once you've seen a guy in spandex, you've seen it all". My weirded out friends refrained from speaking to me for a few minutes....


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## trailgirl (Oct 25, 2005)

biking is my homeboy said:


> ............. I've learned pretty much what the ass of every person on the team looks like. I know for a fact that the ass of that boy is much too wide to be the ass of Andrew. Once you've seen a guy in spandex, you've seen it all". My weirded out friends refrained from speaking to me for a few minutes....


LMAO


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## Carter Taylor (Jan 15, 2004)

*Do you know the truth in that?*

Years ago I was doing the local club ride. There really were no rules about the ride. A typical ride was to socialize for about 8 miles from El Centro till we met the guys from Mexicali. At that point there would be more socializing. The only place they picked up the pace was for the sprint at the end. Probably had 30 riders in the group.
Then a few of us started putting the hammer down right from the start, on every climb, every section of road we were up front hammering. A few months later, there would only be 3 of us show up for that ride on a weekend. 
We were forced to instigated rules for that ride or ride by ourselves from then on. The idea was to stay together till a certain point, 5 miles from the end, then anything goes. Getting dropped 5 miles from town was OK for the other riders, 30 miles wasn't. We stuck to our rules and in a few months, there were 30 riders again.
Carter


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## cruso414 (Aug 19, 2004)

*Wtf!?*



knobbyknees said:


> Joe, have you ever compared race times between men and women? It's no secret that men generally have a significant advantage over women when it comes to power and aerobic capacity. It's not some psychological made up thing, and it's not about skill. This is a biological fact. That's why the men's race winner pretty much always has a faster time than the women's race winner, usually by a wide margin.
> 
> Beating a man up a hill can be a big challenge, more so than beating a woman, a peer. Yes, mens climbing times do put them on a bit of a pedestal. It's gotta be nice to get up there.
> 
> ...


I am a guy and I KNOW and anyone who has been into cycling for more than a few years SHOULD know that Julie Furtado is the greatest all around mountain biker of EITHER sex. I would be honored to be dropped by her.


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

I let all women "drop me". I would rather watch them. The way I look at it is, it gives your mind a rest from the climb, trying to decide, thong or no thong.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Joe Dirt said:


> I let all women "drop me". I would rather watch them. The way I look at it is, it gives your mind a rest from the climb, trying to decide, thong or no thong.


Yeah. I guess. I still got my ass dropped by a group of girls. Actually, I kept with them because there's no way in hell I was gonna get lost.


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## CE750 (Feb 12, 2006)

cruso414 said:


> I am a guy and I KNOW and anyone who has been into cycling for more than a few years SHOULD know that Julie Furtado is the greatest all around mountain biker of EITHER sex. I would be honored to be dropped by her.


Ok.. You're serious? or you just trying to win some points with the girls on this forum? 

Can we say Cedric Garcia, Richie Schley, and Brian Lopes but to name three that are an order of magnitude better? 

But, I'm with Joe Dirt frankly... let them get ahead, and improve the ride by a good bit!


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

thought you guys might like this shot...

my wife...passing some guy...on a hill....in the mud...on a singlespeed....while he's walking... 
not to mention that she won...


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