# E-Bike Motors



## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

Let's discuss the differences, pros, cons, performance, power, weight, battery, life, hub vs mid, serviceability, modding, throttles, and whatever else piques your interest. This thread is all about motors. Discuss...

To start off, 
Who is making ebike motors?
Yamaha, Shimano, Bosch...

Here's a video of the new Yamaha ebike Motor.


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## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

I've been a big fan of Yamaha motorized vehicles for decades. Glad to see them enter the e-bike market under their own name.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Just about all of them are using Bosch right now but if ther selling $12000 e bikes soon all the big names will be selling there own , its too much profit to be made not to. I was riding my old e bike in the pitts at the Ironman MX natls last yr and Marven Musqune the KTM rider was quit fascinated with my e bike I know KTM sells reg mt bikes and has a elec free ride Mx bike just a matter of time for KTM to release a E MT bike .


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

rider95 said:


> I know KTM sells reg mt bikes and has a elec free ride Mx bike just a matter of time for KTM to release a E MT bike .


KTM sell eMTB since at least 2009, with BionX drive for the first years. Currently I think everything is with Bosch motor, with integrated batteries for 2018.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

I would love to have a Yamaha painted up like my old Yz 450 with my # plate lol god the rage it would cause , but I really would like to see in house motors from KTM and Honda with the kind of profit to be made from them you know were gonna see it . So right now there is what? just 3? mid drives to chose from . So how hard is it to swap out a mid drive in one of the new bikes ?? With all the new e bikes and e stuff for them coming out its really exciting times for us e riders .


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Brose
Bosch
Yamaha
Shimano
Continental
Amprio
Bafang

All make middrives, none of which share compatible housings.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

*Yamaha PW Mid Drive--2016 Haibike Full FatSix*











































I can't speak for the other manufacturer's drive systems but the one on my own fatbike, the Yamaha PW mid drive. As of this mornings ride, I have 3324 miles on the odometer since putting the Full FatSix in service back in March, 2017.

Issues? None as of this writing. It's taken me on 20 mile runs averaging close to 17 mph using the HIGH setting to 70 mile plus day trips in the local area using the Eco and Eco+ setting to conserve battery strength. It's taken me on the local roadways as well as in the NJ Pine Barrens notorious sugar sand roads. It's been in one particular rain storm that dumped 4 inches plus in our area.....yep, I was sure I'd see the LED computer blink out and the motor to stop providing power to get me back home with some short caused by water egress. But no, it ran without one glitch at all.

I like the 70-90 RPM cadence the motor and gearing is happy in, versus the Bosch being happier in a higher cadence range. And the Yamaha PW delivers instant power when starting out, unlike the Bosch. This is not a knock at Bosch for their drive systems are a well known motor, highly regarded.

The battery on my bike is the 400 watt hour model. A 500 w/h battery is now available and can be retrofitted to the FatSix with just a simple click and go. As it stands, it is expected the Yamaha battery can deliver over 700 full charge cycles versus 500 for the Bosch. I like that kind of economy!

The 2 front chain rings is a nice touch for a bike that can tackle flat roadways and then shift down for any steep hill one has in mind to try.

In the next day or so, Yamaha is set to announce their very own line up of E mountain bikes. I wonder what they have up their sleeve that can top the Haibike as it seems there is nothing much new under the sun called mountain bike technology.....

Folk talk about a lack of a shift sensor on the Yamaha drive compared to Bosch and others. I can tell you in over 3300 miles, I act as the bikes' shift sensor by backing off the pedal pressure on a shift; no big deal at all, if you ask me. I love this bike. As much as I thought my Specialized Fatboy opened my eyes to a fat tired bike able to go anywhere, the Haibike Full FatSix takes it to a whole nother level. I couldn't be happier with the Yamaha PW mid drive and I expect Yamaha to continue to improve the motor as time goes on....

Mike


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

My oldest brother has the exact same bike. Loves it. Down the road I think I'm leaning towards something with the Shimano STEPS system integrated with Di2.


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## bobbill (Oct 3, 2016)

I bought a Xootr 20" folder intending to replace fork and add front hub motor. Bike is so slick, do not want to mess it up with shock fork (hvy) but front hub motor still on my mind for some help going up home hill.








This will be fourth motored build. Below is pic of first. Did the CNC standard, Burley and a crank forward. Only the CF with Tanaka 33 was truly satisfactory. The recumbent was terrible. Now the wee rig...with electric front hub.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

So, some basic background. I get the motor and the battery thing. What is the interface between the crank and the motor? There is a pedal sensor of sorts?


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## bobbill (Oct 3, 2016)

leeboh said:


> So, some basic background. I get the motor and the battery thing. What is the interface between the crank and the motor? There is a pedal sensor of sorts?


Dig that, I am clueless. Guess no interface, save rider. You pedal, and/or apply throttle pressure. Whatever fits ride. I know the electics need a "controller" but I think self-regulating.

I pretty much need to go up one-hill (.3 mile) and use when in a slight hurry!


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

bobbill said:


> This will be fourth motored build. Below is pic of first. Did the CNC standard, Burley and a crank forward. Only the CF with Tanaka 33 was truly satisfactory. The recumbent was terrible. Now the wee rig...with electric front hub.
> 
> View attachment 1163045


Is that a weed whacker motor? Cool looking frame.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

leeboh said:


> So, some basic background. I get the motor and the battery thing. What is the interface between the crank and the motor? There is a pedal sensor of sorts?


Some have cadence sensors, where the sensor can only tell if the pedals are turning forward or not. The better ones have torque sensors, so they can monitor how much torque the rider is applying to the pedals, and then the amount of assist can follow that input (also subject to whatever settings are selected in the programmer). Someone else can probably give more detailed description.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I believe Moe Ped reported that on one of his ebikes, he could pedal backwards and it would still go forward, obviously just a cadence sensor.


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## bobbill (Oct 3, 2016)

Klurejr said:


> Is that a weed whacker motor? Cool looking frame.


Honda 25...great motor but insufficient torque to get my fat arse up hill, so switched to Tanaka 33...amazing motor. Smaller, very torq-y did the job. Used on three bikes...never a hiccup. Got to where I could pedal and start it on the fly. But with new Xootr folder with electric is more sensible...and never had one.

Bike is CNC (Alum) Trek with Bontragers, coaster brake bike. Only biko I regret selling, cept the new this slick new Xootr multi-speed rig.

BTW, Xooter is basically full size rig with 20-inch wheels. Cannot tell diff. And the sucker folds. Rock solid ride.

Methinks cadence sensors are not nec for motored bikes. Never ever thought of one til now.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

bobbill said:


> Honda 25...great motor but insufficient torque to get my fat arse up hill, so switched to Tanaka 33...amazing motor. Smaller, very torq-y did the job. Used on three bikes...never a hiccup. Got to where I could pedal and start it on the fly. But with new Xootr folder with electric is more sensible...and never had one.
> 
> Bike is CNC (Alum) Trek with Bontragers, coaster brake bike. Only biko I regret selling, cept the new this slick new Xootr multi-speed rig.
> 
> ...


That Trek reminds me of this setup: https://www.aden-sports.com/de/powerkit-pro


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## bobbill (Oct 3, 2016)

Harryman said:


> That Trek reminds me of this setup: https://www.aden-sports.com/de/powerkit-pro


Except it the Germna device is electric...interesting, does not show battery...

I am looking at 250 AH rig sold by ebikerig.com I think it is.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

JACKL said:


> Some have cadence sensors, where the sensor can only tell if the pedals are turning forward or not. The better ones have torque sensors, so they can monitor how much torque the rider is applying to the pedals, and then the amount of assist can follow that input (also subject to whatever settings are selected in the programmer). Someone else can probably give more detailed description.


 So what kind of gearing is used or the connection between the motor and pedals? Sorry if this is a derail.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

bobbill said:


> Except it the Germna device is electric...interesting, does not show battery...
> 
> I am looking at 250 AH rig sold by ebikerig.com I think it is.


Backpack battery


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

leeboh said:


> So what kind of gearing is used or the connection between the motor and pedals? Sorry if this is a derail.


Mid motor?


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## bobbill (Oct 3, 2016)

Harryman said:


> Mid motor?


I read it all. Will say this, especially regarding motored bikes. Simple is best.

Seriously, the Golden Eagle arrangement if gas or some wheel hub if electric. Former never a glitch in 10 years and the hubs look as simple, save no experience here. Simple works. And "works" is what it is all about.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Harryman said:


> Mid motor?


 Much better idea, thanks.


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## DL723 (Sep 25, 2017)

https://electricbikereview.com/forum/attachments/powers-jpg.17593/

Interesting graph. I think it was created by Bosch so slightly skewed. But does fit with what people generally observe. It's interesting the Brose motor has had reports of being vastly underpowered in Bulls bikes..but haven't really seen that report in Specialized bikes. Might be tuning?


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

bobbill said:


> I read it all. Will say this, especially regarding motored bikes. Simple is best.
> 
> Seriously, the Golden Eagle arrangement if gas or some wheel hub if electric. Former never a glitch in 10 years and the hubs look as simple, save no experience here. Simple works. And "works" is what it is all about.


 Hub-motors work only on smooth surfaces, like pavement: once you get off-road, the unsprung weight kills handling. I have both and while my mid-drive eMTBs work great on pavement, the hub-motor street bike sucks on fire roads.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

I only do direct drive hubs now, mated to a sinewave controller. Cant hear a thing. I am a MXUS fan, 3k or 5k watt motors!


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