# Racing Ralph 2.25 vs. Race King Supersonic 2.2?



## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

I looked around and couldn't really find much in the way of direct comparisons. People have either had one or the other, not both.

This is going to be for use as a rear tire.

And assume the Newer ('08+ square block pattern) racing ralph, not the older version.


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## tolleyman (Mar 5, 2006)

I've had both, and I am sticking with the Ralph. The RK washed out on me up front too much. This is the number one complaint on that tire if you read the usual reviews. Ralph is costly though, sometimes almost twice the cost of RK.

I'm sure others will have the opposite opinion, after all you know what they say about opinions!


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

What about their wear rates and sidewall thickness? Around here, they are comparable in price.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

tolleyman said:


> I've had both, and I am sticking with the Ralph. The RK washed out on me up front too much. This is the number one complaint on that tire if you read the usual reviews. Ralph is costly though, sometimes almost twice the cost of RK.
> 
> I'm sure others will have the opposite opinion, after all you know what they say about opinions!


sounds like you had to high pressure on the RK. the RK sticks to the ground like glue if the pressure is low enough.


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## tolleyman (Mar 5, 2006)

*Tires*

I guess that's possible, it seemed like the outer edge of knobs was too soft to me. I still have them around somewhere, maybe I'll give em another try.

I haven't damaged the Ralphs yet, but they do advertise them as "RACE ONLY" so definitely beware.


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## theextremist04 (Jul 15, 2008)

Conti basically says the same thing about the SS series too though.


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## tolleyman (Mar 5, 2006)

My Ralphs have held up pretty well. I only use them for racing. 3-4 races so far and they still have the nipples.


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## Drider85 (Jan 12, 2009)

The walls on the kings are quite thin however I did not have any problems with them tearing. I ran my tubeless for a while and they leaked a lot of air. I did find that on hard pack the kings did seem to feel unsure regardless of the pressure. However the softer and looser it became the better they worked.


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

Oh another question, is the Crossmark also a direct competitor with these 2 tires? I realize they are all low profile tires, but I'd like to know which handle loose-over-hardpack better.


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## mtbmitch2 (Sep 24, 2007)

I have about a year on racing ralphs 3 times a week. If you are a smooth rider and
not a thrasher, they hold up just fine. I weigh 150 and ride xc with some rocks.
I don't think they are great for summer sandy conditions on the front. I use a
nobby nic during the summer. stans works fine with either of these.


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

I've been trying to use soem RK 2.2" for a while now. I finally got the front to seal up with Stan's on Olympic rims... but my rear tire is seriously fighting me. My wife and I are out in CO riding right now and I had to stop on the trail and put a tube in today.... It just kept dropping pressure on me. 

I've ran RR and Noby Nics in the past and never had any trouble at all getting them to seal up. I've all but given up on this particular Race King. Even if I were to get it to seal.... I wouldn't have any confidence in it. I mighttry to get another one though, as they do seem to perform really well.


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## Patchito (Dec 31, 2003)

Kyle2834 said:


> Oh another question, is the Crossmark also a direct competitor with these 2 tires? I realize they are all low profile tires, but I'd like to know which handle loose-over-hardpack better.


For loose over hardpack like we have here in Socal...or what you'd find in desert-like conditions in AZ, etc, I wouldn't recommend the Racing Ralph up front. I found I had really abrupt washouts that left me in a heap. On some low gripping tires, you can feel when it's exceeding it's limits and regain control. The Ralphs lost it without warning. Not good. I run Knobby Nics up front now and the Ralphs in back. This is much better. I think that's why they introduced the Nic. The Ralphs would probably be ok if you were running them as a 29er.


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## 743power (Sep 25, 2007)

I have been patiently waiting for months for highway2 to get their order of rk 2.2's in. I finally got them a month ago and just got to put them on yesterday. I was mounting them up with stans and the amount of air/stans shooting through the sidewall was nothing short of ridiculous. It was like the sidewalls were made of cheesecloth. I lost an entire scoop of stans through all the holes in the sidewalls within 10 minutes worth of attempting to get them to stay inflated.

It's really quite ashame because I had the tires inflated with some tubes to round them out and they looked like the tire I have been dreaming of since I started riding. I am thinking I am going to try out some crossmark xceptions now. I really like the schwalbes, but they are prohibitively expensive. I can get 3 race kings, or 3 crossmarks, or 4 mich. xc drys for the price of 2 RR's.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

the RK and RR are about the same price in Europe...


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## FTM (Sep 14, 2004)

@743power - Use some of your patience in mounting the tires and don't give up after 10 minutes. It does take quite a while (almost a week for me) to get them fully sealed (no pressure loss over night) but well worth it.


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

I'm already using a Mountain King 2.4" Protection on the front. My area is thorn/rocks/cactus, but the protection version still feels like it could be more compliant at low pressures. I'm only 140lb geared up, so this is probably why. A 2.4" MK supersonic will be taking its place soon, hoping for a more supple ride at a given pressure. (and hoping it seals with no issues with my homebrew sealant)

This still leaves the rear. I did contemplate a snakeskin/protection rear tire, but what the crap, no snakeskin ralph or protection raceking in the soft compound are available. So that's why my choices were between RR 2.25 and RK SS 2.2.


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## 743power (Sep 25, 2007)

FTM said:


> @743power - Use some of your patience in mounting the tires and don't give up after 10 minutes. It does take quite a while (almost a week for me) to get them fully sealed (no pressure loss over night) but well worth it.


yea, maybe I will try them later in the season when I have a second set of wheels to use. Right now, I can't have my bike sitting because I'm waiting for tires to seal. FWIW, I spent 10x longer getting these things to seat and inflate than any other tire I have setup. When I gave up and put on a set of michelins, they popped right onto the bead and didnt leak air anywhere.


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## FTM (Sep 14, 2004)

Yeah, only having one wheelset would be a problem, I'd have given up too.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

743power said:


> yea, maybe I will try them later in the season when I have a second set of wheels to use. Right now, I can't have my bike sitting because I'm waiting for tires to seal. FWIW, I spent 10x longer getting these things to seat and inflate than any other tire I have setup. When I gave up and put on a set of michelins, they popped right onto the bead and didnt leak air anywhere.


FWIW I have a new set of RKSS 2.2's for my wife's bike, and MAN what a pain in the ass to get them to seal. Well, that's assuming that I actually WILL get them to seal at some point. Using Stan's rubber strips on AmClassic wheels, I was very glad I had access to a _large_ air compressor because it required a LOT of air to even get the beads to seat.

Hoping that they'll seal up better after a ride tomorrow. Might have to add more sealant to ensure it, but I'm very concerned about killing the pressure. I don't have my air compressor right now and if I lose those beads, I'm sunk. No way I can re-seat those beads with a floor pump.

This is in comparison to mounting tires on my Stan's Flow 29er rims with a track pump. That rim design is just brilliant, and we're saving our pennies to replace the AC wheelset with a similar set, just using the Olympic rims. The RKs would probably still leak like a sieve, though.


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

tolleyman said:


> I've had both, and I am sticking with the Ralph. The RK washed out on me up front too much. This is the number one complaint on that tire if you read the usual reviews. Ralph is costly though, sometimes almost twice the cost of RK.
> 
> I'm sure others will have the opposite opinion, after all you know what they say about opinions!


Washed out under what conditions? Tire pressure? Rim width? Rider stats?


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

I gave up on my RK SS tires. They just wouldn't seal up on my Olympic rims. Well... the front would... but the rear never would. I took them off and put on a set of Nobby Nics. They sealed up with a floor pump and never even lost any air. 

I'll prolly put a Racing Ralph on the rear after I get home from this CO trip. The RK tires works really well when inflated. It's a shame they are such a PITA to seal up. I wouldn't waste you money or time on them.

If you want a set to try out.... I've got some like new ones I'll practically give away


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

briscoelab said:


> The RK tires works really well when inflated. It's a shame they are such a PITA to seal up. I wouldn't waste you money or time on them


i don't want to come across as some smart arse, i've not failed to convert Race King Supersonic 2.2 tires and RR EVO to tubeless using the following method:

1. install the tire with an inner tube, lubricate the bead slightly, inflated to 45psi-50psi, then leave overnight.
2. next day, deflate, carefully break the bead on one side only, remove the tube.
3. install UST valve, lubricate the bead generously (i use dr. bronners liquid soap).
4. shake the bottle really well, then pour in 30-50ml of stans UST solution, rotate the wheel while entirely coating the inside of the tire, bead to bead.
5. shake the bottle well, then add 70-100ml of hutchinson protect air around the radius of the tire.
6. close up the tire, you should be able to do it without levers.
7. while inflating the tire, enroll a second person to undulate and rotate the wheel to wet the beading on the inside, if the bead does not pop - flip the wheel over so the broken bead is underneath, shake + shimmy & pump like a madman!
8. inflate below max rec pressure (45psi), spin, shake, wobble the wheel.
9. if tire is still leaking air, leave the wheel to rest horizontally on a box for a few hours/days each side to help seal the sidewalls, deflate re-inflate several times in sucession - or go for a short ride.

i've installed 4 sets of RK SS tires, twice on different DT 4.2d rims, also XTR 960 and Crossmax SL, with no probs, all still hold air great.

when one tire began to seep air from the sidewall after a month, i just added 30ml more hutchinson's and it stopped, months later the tire still holds air like its UST on UST rims.

...don't give up on those tires, they are probably the best on the market!

(edit for typo)


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

or run tubes in them, they work like a charm and only take a few minutes to mount up and air up  :thumbsup:


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## nathanbal (Jan 30, 2007)

rockyuphill said:


> or run tubes in them, they work like a charm and only take a few minutes to mount up and air up  :thumbsup:


what pressure do you run with tubes?

I have run them on Crossmax SLRs and Olympic rims tubeless and they didnt perform anywhere near as good with tubes - pressure was quite similar on all applications. Around 28psi.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

culturesponge said:


> i've not failed to convert Race King Supersonic 2.2 tires and RR EVO to tubeless using the following method:
> 
> 1....
> 2....
> ...


sorry - i just had a good laugh 

Maybe it is indeed time Eclipse starts selling their 56g tubes, right?:thumbsup:

But you are right - these tires are great!


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## nathanbal (Jan 30, 2007)

nino said:


> sorry - i just had a good laugh
> 
> Maybe it is indeed time Eclipse starts selling their 56g tubes, right?:thumbsup:
> 
> But you are right - these tires are great!


nino - do you only run with the eclipse tubes? what other tubes have you tried? have you noticed a difference in performance between tubes and tubeless?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*always look on the bright side...*



nino said:


> sorry - i just had a good laugh


exactly nino - (sometimes) you really need to keep your sense of humour when trying to convert porous sidewall tires to tubeless.

maybe i should have put - pump like your lifeboat is deflating fast and great white sharks are closing in.

i should have made a youtube video of the first time i tried to inflate a tube tire converted to UST without proper preparation, i was pumping that damn tire till i almost had an aneurysm.

...i'd like an eclipse tube to carry in my Dueter race air lite backpack incase of sidewall damage, the Spec Thorn Resistant Race tube i haul everywhere must weigh 3x what those eclipse do.

peace

(edit for typo)


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Eclipse tubelesskit vs. Eclipse-Tube*



nathanbal said:


> nino - do you only run with the eclipse tubes? what other tubes have you tried? have you noticed a difference in performance between tubes and tubeless?


I was one of the first using converted tires/Tubelesskits. It's over 8 years that i ran no other than tubeless on my bikes but when reading the above instructions i really had to smile as it reminds me of some pain in the a$$ that you encounter trying to seal certain tires...

anyway- since september i am running those ultralight tubes and couldn't be happier: No more trouble in setting up whatever tire, no mess, no problems at all. Easy tire changes, no blow-offs ever, no leaking sidewalls,...just easy setup of ALL tires regardless of the sidewalls porousity. Most probably also lighter since about 60g is what you use anyway in any converted setup but then you still have to add the valve and rimstrip as well...and maybe you have to add some more sealant after a couple of weeks...

I'd say the ride is equal to a tubelesskit. There's definitely a difference between ultralight inner tubes and the Eclipse in feel. It rollls faster and smoother...just like tubelesskits do. These tubes are so thin they really mimick the ride of the tubelesskits.


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

So how much grip would I be giving up by getting the protection version (normal compound), vs. supersonic (chili compound)?

I feel I might need protection version on rear tire. Is the compound that much harder?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The regular compound isn't just harder, it is less gummy. The Black Chili seems to stick as well as Kenda's Stick-E rubber but rolls as well or better than the DTC compound.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

nathanbal said:


> what pressure do you run with tubes?
> 
> I have run them on Crossmax SLRs and Olympic rims tubeless and they didnt perform anywhere near as good with tubes - pressure was quite similar on all applications. Around 28psi.


I've been using them on XTR wheels with Maxxis Ultralight tubes and 28-ish pounds, I'm around 195-200 pounds (sadly closer to 200 at this time of year) :skep: .


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

BTW anyone has pictures to compare the size of a racing ralph 2.25 and the race king 2.2? 
thanks!


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## greyhorse (Aug 29, 2007)

sergio_pt said:


> BTW anyone has pictures to compare the size of a racing ralph 2.25 and the race king 2.2?
> thanks!


http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4490816&page=4&highlight=racing+ralph+race+king+pictures

See rockyuphill's picture of the RKs about 2/5s down the page and compare with my picture showing RR 2.25" about half-way down the page. Same fork and rim profile.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

I have only had good experience with Racing Ralphs.


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## precar (Apr 27, 2004)

*Protection = no Black Chili?*



Kyle2834 said:


> So how much grip would I be giving up by getting the protection version (normal compound), vs. supersonic (chili compound)?
> 
> I feel I might need protection version on rear tire. Is the compound that much harder?


Conti's website says both the Protection and Supersonic versions have Black Chili. Is it different in the US or something?

http://www.conti-online.com/generat...es/mtb/cross_country/MountainKing_new_en.html


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

greyhorse said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4490816&page=4&highlight=racing+ralph+race+king+pictures
> 
> See rockyuphill's picture of the RKs about 2/5s down the page and compare with my picture showing RR 2.25" about half-way down the page. Same fork and rim profile.


yeah I remember I've done that comparison before and decided to try the race king 2.2 but they are too tall for narrow rims and almost impossible to seal. I'm really having enough of the RK 2.2! :madmax: If they just seal...

The racing ralph has a good size, It seals well based on the comments. I think the only problem with them is the soft ruber that tears and wears too fast.
My first schwalbe tire lasted 1 day on the bike. After passing over a shap rock it got a huge cut!


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## miles e (Jan 16, 2004)

precar said:


> Conti's website says both the Protection and Supersonic versions have Black Chili. Is it different in the US or something?
> 
> http://www.conti-online.com/generat...es/mtb/cross_country/MountainKing_new_en.html


That's the Mountain King tire; the website indicates that the only Race King available with the Black Chili compound is the Supersonic version.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

sergio_pt said:


> The racing ralph has a good size, It seals well based on the comments. I think the only problem with them is the soft ruber that tears and wears too fast.
> My first schwalbe tire lasted 1 day on the bike. After passing over a shap rock it got a huge cut!


 That's the problem with schwable... I noticed that my front rocket ron is showing some tears in the knobs after some few rides...


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