# transition ripcord vs rm reaper



## kotajack (Dec 5, 2004)

I have been trying to find the next ride for my 9 yr old and have spend more time researching than I do for my own rides. Still trying to decide on options and tryin to figure how the geometry translates to trail riding
Both these bikes are geared more towards park/dh riding but is one more trail friendly than the other? Can they happily be ridden in kids endure races where there is climbing involved?

Ripcord is heavy around 30lbs stock but the chanistays are 381mm and the ht is 67 deg

RM reaper weighs in around 27 lbs stock but has long chainstays at 422 and super slack head angle 63.3 deg

My guess would be that the rm is more dh friendly but with the lighter weight and larger gear range it may do better on trail rides as well

I guess I am trying to figure out how important the chainstay length really is. Would it change from fs to hardtail?


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

I think the answer to your question is a Trailcraft Maxwell 24".


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

kotajack said:


> I have been trying to find the next ride for my 9 yr old and have spend more time researching than I do for my own rides. Still trying to decide on options and tryin to figure how the geometry translates to trail riding
> Both these bikes are geared more towards park/dh riding but is one more trail friendly than the other? Can they happily be ridden in kids endure races where there is climbing involved?
> 
> Ripcord is heavy around 30lbs stock but the chanistays are 381mm and the ht is 67 deg
> ...


The Ripcord is quite small .... POAH might be along but it might not have as long a life size wise. If you google POAH and Lewis (his lad) you will see loads of very well explained pro's and cons.

The weight is in the shocks and wheels I think.... I tried REALLY hard to get a Transition Frame ONLY for my now 8yr old in the UK (and Europe) but for various reasons this proved impossible and we ended up with a 2015 Norco Fluid which is bigger.

In some ways this turned out well because actually on the bike (rather than going off Geo) he fits very well right then... and I HOPE he is still able to use this aged 9..

The Norco was a brute weight wise... but most of that was wheels... the FRONT wheel weighed more than both of the way stronger and wider wheels he had on his XC... it dropped 2kg just changing wheels and cranks... (and the cranks were minor in weight saving)

We now swap between his XC wheels with light XC tyres and some new wheels with a 2.4 Fat Albert on the back and a heavy (wire bead) Maxxis 2.5 on the front.

You can also play with the Transition Geo ... on the Norco we fitted a 100mm SID fork but because the fork was tapered we added 12mm adding a external headset so its A/C is 12mm more and its ideal... I could fit a straight steerer 120mm and it would be a bit more aggressive but not extreme


> I guess I am trying to figure out how important the chainstay length really is.


Depends on their size and weight and skill and what you want to ride....
For us it was critical... my kid can't get his bum over the centre of the rear wheel on his XC and that makes it REALLY hard to manual.... the Norco is easy in comparison.... and for trail riding this really makes as big a difference as the rear shock (in some ways)


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## kotajack (Dec 5, 2004)

SactoGeoff- you are 100% correct
trailcraft seems like they know what they are doing for kids
It looks like it is built well and a great package for a kid who would like to do all types of riding. I cannot do the price its just over my budget. Heck the rm and transition is more than I wanted to spend


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

Perhaps a VPace 26" MORITZ26 Kinder Trail Fully - Pre-Order - VPACE Bikes

I'd reached out to them in the past and if the sale is outside EU, you don't pay VAT tax. Which is about 20%. The VPace philosophy is the biggest wheel possible on the smallest frame possible. So a 26" Vpace is more like a large-ish 24" in most other makers.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

kotajack said:


> SactoGeoff- you are 100% correct
> trailcraft seems like they know what they are doing for kids
> It looks like it is built well and a great package for a kid who would like to do all types of riding. I cannot do the price its just over my budget. Heck the rm and transition is more than I wanted to spend


Are you looking new or used ???

Do you have a spares bin????

To be clear I think the Trailcraft's are actually really good value or "cheap considering" but that's considering market size and they can't rely on buying discount but if you have the patience and can live to New Years sales then buying used and upgrading could end up with a "better bike cheaper". Of course Trailcraft can't price bikes assuming they will internet shop for cheap parts... and equally are not going to get the same price as Giant with SRAM/Shimano...

I got the forks for GBP300 ($350?) which is 50% off because they were 26" XC non-boost, QR forks... and well most XC forks are 29 now and boost with Thru axles...

The forks it came with weren't terrible... so we didn't upgrade the same day.... and his dropper was also 50% off brand new... and the 10 speed XT groupset almost all out of the spares bin except the shifter (which was 1/2 price anyway)

Just a different perspective?


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Steve-XtC said:


> Just a different perspective?


Here's another perspective, get a decent cheap bike. Take the money saved and wait a couple years when the kid will start sprouting and spend those funds on a proper 26 or 27.5 build. One of my regrets is blowing too much money on a 24in build. By the time mine was getting too big for 24in, he was 11 1/2 yrs old and entering middle school. Everyone in middle school is on 26in and up and you just cannot be seen on a 24incher. Dumping all that cash on a 24er was a waste as a lot of it couldn't be moved onto the carbon 26 Tideace frame. But the components of the Tideace moved onto his F/S carbon FM076 w/o issue. The point is plan for the future too. Going cheaper 24 as a stop gap and spend the funds saved on a bike later that will last much longer duration and will be ridden harder and longer.

Reading the OP's posts budget is a concern too so he might wanna look at something like the DB Line 24. Its cheap, relatively light at 27lbs. You can slap on a wide ratio 11-40 cassette. It's like 390 with the corporate discount btw. Imo, something like this is more than enough for 95% of kids, even shredders at this age. And if he/she gets more serious, you can do a full build up later when they move onto 26in and larger size wheels.

http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/small-review-line-24-a-1064656.html


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

What is your kid using it for? Is he racing enduro? I wouldn't drop that amount of cash on either bike if it was me. Both are expensive and flawed. The Ripcord is nice but way heavy and the reaper is a DH bike. I'd buy a Spawn Rockstar 24" before the Reaper. It's got better Geometry and is the same weight....though it still has a downhill flavor too. 

If your kid isnt riding crazy stuff, a nice hardtail would be great and save you money and weight. 1300$ Trail Craft Christmas special isn't bad at all. 

If full suspension is a must, that Maxwell is really hard to beat for a true All Mountain FS that can actually make a competitive climb. I also like the idea of just building a Ripcord from the frame. A lot of people have done that and have their builds posted. Sweet bikes and around 23lbs. Not sure on the overall cost but maybe you do it for 2k and have a sick bike.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

My 8 year old son has a Ripcord. You're right that out of the box, it's a little heavy. But you can drop about 3+ pounds pretty quickly just by swapping out the Kenda tires for some lighter weight Schwalbe's. I did some significant mods to my son's, like swapping carbon bars, lightweight rotors, custom built wheelset, carbon seatpost, XX cassette. So the weight is down to 22 pounds or something like that. Most all the stuff (except the wheelset and tires) was from my spare parts bin. 

That being said, if I were doing it all over again, I'd consider getting him the Trailcraft Full Sus bike.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

thesmokingman said:


> Reading the OP's posts budget is a concern too so he might wanna look at something like the DB Line 24. Its cheap, relatively light at 27lbs. You can slap on a wide ratio 11-40 cassette. It's like 390 with the corporate discount btw. Imo, something like this is more than enough for 95% of kids, even shredders at this age. And if he/she gets more serious, you can do a full build up later when they move onto 26in and larger size wheels.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/small-review-line-24-a-1064656.html


My next door neighbor bought the Line 24 for his son from the Diamondback website. That bike is a REALLY good value.


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## kotajack (Dec 5, 2004)

Thanks all for the posts. This is new territory for me. I rode a huffy and loved it! My advantage is that the bike can be passed down to a younger brother so that minimizes the overall cost. Guys have awesome 22lb builds for their kids but I am just too cheap for that. There is a line where you buy junk and buy awesome. When they get a job they can buy their own awesome. Trying to find the in between is the tough part. Getting them and keeping them involved in this awesome sport is worth it. 

The weight and the skills they learn on a hardtail is a plus but these kids are doing things on a bike that I never dreamed of as a kid. I think a fs has its place. I am just too old but I am never going back to a hardtail, and I think once they hit a point where they can do 2 hour + trailrides comfort becomes a factor. Trying to find a bike where they can do an enduro race as well as dh and trail rides is tough. They are just too expensive to have multiple bikes. Anything can be built, but in stock form this I what i gather. What am I missing?

The rm has decent components and weight at 27lbs. I think they designed it to work with 26" wheels as well so maybe they can ride it longer as they grow. The only downside I see is for trailriding with the super long chainstays and slack headtube. Will kids notice this on the trail ride or enduro type of ride? Is it a downfall? Will the lighter weight be more beneficial than shorter stays and headtube angle 

The ripcord seems like it has covered all the conditions however it is 30lbs plus from the get go. I believe it is only 24" able. Shorter chainstays and bit steeper headtube. Will it be easier to manual and ride tighter technical stuff on the trail despite the weight?

As said before the Maxwell looks great- I am just over my intended budget already

These are really my only fs options that are available at my lb store. Thanks for any help


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

kotajack said:


> The rm has decent components and weight at 27lbs. I think they designed it to work with 26" wheels as well so maybe they can ride it longer as they grow. The only downside I see is for trailriding with the super long chainstays and slack headtube. Will kids notice this on the trail ride or enduro type of ride? Is it a downfall? Will the lighter weight be more beneficial than shorter stays and headtube angle
> 
> The ripcord seems like it has covered all the conditions however it is 30lbs plus from the get go. I believe it is only 24" able. Shorter chainstays and bit steeper headtube. Will it be easier to manual and ride tighter technical stuff on the trail despite the weight?


Here's my take: The Reaper is 27 lbs.

The Ripcord is 30 lbs out the box, but as I said, you can always just swap out the tires (the Kenda Kinetics weigh 980 grams EACH... The Rocket Rons weigh 300 grams each... That's a 3 pound difference just in the tires) and get it down to 27 lbs (and that's rotating weight, where it counts). You can do this to the Ripcord, and still be at the same price as the Reaper (because the Ripcord is $100 less MSRP to begin with). So weight, as a decision factor, should be eliminated.

So, now you're down to whether you want a bike that fits him now and has proper geometry but will not fit him as well for as long (the Ripcord), or bike that has less than ideal geometry but will last longer because it will grow with him (the Rocky Mountain).

Personally, I'd go with the Ripcord. It seems it would be an easier bike to ride well in more situations (climbing, switchbacks, descending). And I'd just deal with getting him another bike in 3 years. If he's really into it as you think he might be, you'll want to do that for him anyway, is my guess.

Anecdotally, my kid can do some pretty amazing stuff on his Ripcord (my kid also races BMX and skis too, so he's not fearful of bike parks or jumps). A properly sized FS bike is the right choice for him.

But darn, the RM is nice too (and really, you're not "cheap" in the sense you're buying him a pretty damn nice bike either way). And either way, you're kid's gonna be luckier than most, because you're a parent who is giving it a lot of thought and trying to do what's best. You're kid's a fortunate kid. Good job, dad!!!


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## Calgarytrev (Jul 28, 2014)

I just went threw the same decision making with my boy between the ripcord and the reaper. I wanted the Maxwell but after shipping and conversion to Canadian dollars the price was just crazy. I ended up deciding on the ripcord as I thought it had more balanced geo than RM or spawn with a steeper sta and reasonable hta as well. It also is shorter than the rm which my boy test rode and just looked very large and awkward when he got on it and started pedalling(he’s 8 1/2 and 52” tall) I bought the ripcord as a frame only and am currently building it for Christmas and think if he gets 3years out of the thing and it makes him comfortable and a better rider it’s worth every penny! Hell my friends are spending 7-10k a year on hockey so this seems like a bargain compared to that craziness ! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

10k on hockey!? No wonder Canada has free health care, they must be taxing Hockey.

Son - "Dad I want to play Hockey this year" 
Me - *punches him in the face* 
(I'm kidding of course...)

Since you have a second kid, go with the Ripcord man. That tire swap makes it an easy fit. You are in the market for a FS bike because your kid is pushing it hard. Don't buy a bike that will hold him back. That RM is an odd bike for what you want. You'll be able to sell that Ripcord if you want to too. It's a known quantity good bike.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Have you considered looking used?

These are MTB's so one way or another you are replacing components if its used as intended. 

Buying used that will come quicker but you can then shave off weight each time.

Transition also do Frame only so you could take advantage of cheaper 26" XC forks....(which are more than stiff enough for kids DH) but as I said earlier the transition is quite a small frame out of the crop of 24er FS. When my kid was going up for 8 we were looking at these and as it worked out we couldn't get frame only in the UK (for less than the complete bike)

I'd be cautious on sizing for a 9yr old... 

We ended up with a Norco Fluid (used) that can be sold for more or less what we paid when he outgrows it. With the money saved we bought for fork for 1/2 price... we got a SID but you could go with a Reba and still save a fair chunck of weight

The wheels were incredibly heavy... I don't have weights to hand but the front wheel from the Norco was heavier than both wheels on his 24" XC bike ... and it was partly tires but the hubs were much heavier and the spokes as well...

The rest of the bike is well specced and light from my spares bin as easily under 25lbs (with dropper). My own XC bike got heavier as he got my $15 Carbon bars and my XT brakes but the weight is more important for him than me. 

Most important in terms of cost though is fork/shock/cranks and wheels excepted everything is common across the bikes so I can buy spares cheap when they are heavily discounted and they fit the first bike something breaks or wears out... that applies largely to chains, disc pads, cassettes and chainrings and except for my trail bike the rotors... (his brake rotors are 160mm same as my XC bike) and it also prevents me having to replace something at a premium price if its something I don't have a spare.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I took a second look at that Rocky Mountain bike. Its interesting how you can adjust the geo. The HTA goes from 64 to 66. I'm not sure how good that is but it sounds cool. The Ripcord has the same wheelbase as the Maxwell. Reaper's is nearly 3in longer.

How big of a deal is that three inches? I wonder if this Reaper should be a real contender long term being that you can convert it to 26". I like the idea at least....only issue is that once littler brother comes around...what does he ride? That is where the convertible stuff falls a little short for me...but maybe thats bad logic.

On a side note, I think it's better for a kid to be on a bike to small than a bike to big.

Side note #2, the stack on the Reaper 24 is SUPER high at 531+-. Ripcord stack is much better at 506. Maxwell 24 is like 498 I think. I think that stack is enough to make it a hard pass. Spawn Rokussuta is about 516 iirc.

#3 - I put a post on this a bit ago but it probably applies here - Moritz 26 (29er idea). For a similar price to the Reaper 26 (I know you are looking at 24)...you could get a better spec'd 26 with same wheelbase/stack/travel....but 4lbs lighter, Fox Suspension and kind of a 24in as its designed around the 29er principals. Its a bit bigger than the ripcord but he will be able to ride it for a longer time...also won't be dealing with high weights. Cost def goes up but might be a better value long term as your kid can ride it longer. My guess is the suspension will be better tuned as well. From what I've read on here, to get that Ripcord rear shock to REALLY work well, it needs to be shimed or revalved which doesn't surprise me. I think the RS Monarch Light rider tune is probably tuned for light ladies in the 100lb range...not 60lb kids.

MORITZ26 Kinder Trail Fully - Pre-Order - VPACE Bikes


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## kotajack (Dec 5, 2004)

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Side note #2, the stack on the Reaper 24 is SUPER high at 531+-. Ripcord stack is much better at 506. Maxwell 24 is like 498 I think. I think that stack is enough to make it a hard pass. Spawn Rokussuta is about 516 iirc.


I am wondering why such the difference in stack height? With the shorter top tube and the taller stack it would definitely put the rider more upright than the ripcord. Thinking this might help with the longer chainstay and wheelbase when in switchback and technical type trails-am I wrong on this?

I checked out a ripcord yesterday and it looked very compact. Going to check out a rm today

Ya I am one of those hockey dads as well. I wont pay the 7-10k but there are many kids around mine that play for two teams at a time and are easily in the 7-10k range. Everyone thinks their kid is going to be in the nhl or are training their kid for the college scholarship and gladly pay the $$$ for the private teams. Ask your kid if they want to play hockey, if they say no never ask again-haha


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## kotajack (Dec 5, 2004)

So I know this post is old, been super busy but just thought I would update it.

I did tons of research and ended up going with the Transition Ripcord.
There has been snow on the ground here for some time but was finally able to get a trail ride in this week. My son liked the bike. The fit and geometry seemed to be great. In stock form it was light enough for the trailriding and I am sure I can make it better if needed. The reaper had some great positives but the geometry seemed off in person. He thought the suspension on the ripcord was too stiff but that can be fixed. I think my son will do well with the ripcord once we fine tune the details etc...

Thanks to all for the feedback


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## fitnessgeek (Feb 8, 2006)

I'm considering the Ripcord for my 9 year old. Are you and your son still happy with it?


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