# Full-Thickness Tear of Rotator Cuff



## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Crashed HARD on my left shoulder a couple months ago, and my shoulder was sore, but serviceable. Then a week later, I was standing climbing on my SS when I hit a large rock with one pedal, stopping my bike cold. My body pitched forward, and when I tensed up to keep from going over the bars, my shoulder exploded in white-hot pain. I jumped off the bike and howled in pain. Finished the ride, but that baby hurt!!

Went to see my ortho doc the following Monday, and they x-rayed it, and found a Grade 1 AC separation, which I kind of assumed from the first crash. He did ROM stuff, and figured on a strained rotator cuff or labrum. Asked my if I wanted an MRI yet, but I said no, let's see how it goes, so he told me to rest it for a couple weeks, and see if it heals.

Took that time off from lifting, and a week off from riding, then I rode easy a couple times. Did a 35-mile race (Tour of the White Mountains in Northern AZ), and it felt OK, but still had pain and limited ROM, particularly when trying to lift, and sleeping. So I went back in, and based on the office eval, and some "clunking" in there, he said "highly likely" it was a torn labrum, and ordered an MRI.

After waiting two weeks for pre-authorization madman, I finally got the MRI last Friday, and the results yesterday. Good news: AC separation is healing, and labrum is only frayed, and not torn. Bad news: Full-thickness tear of rotator cuff + tear of some other sub-scapular tendon (or something) + degenerative arthritis + bone spurs. Not the news I was expecting, nor hoping for...:sad:

Meeting with the surgeon today to discuss the plan, but in talking with the PA yesterday, I got the sense that I have a big repair coming, and a lengthly recovery. I'll know more later today, of course, but I'd appreciate any insight from those of you that have been through this one.

BTW, two years ago, I tore my triceps tendon completely (yes, MTB fall), and was off the bike for 4+ months rehabbing THAT!! Now this...


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## hillcountryav (Jun 8, 2011)

I feel for you man!
I took a hard spill about 6 weeks ago. I see the dr next week to see what the game plan is. 







I really don't expect to be on the bike much until the first of next year. Eager to start spinning on the dirt again, it's been tough being a full time pedestrian.


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## Ricisan (Aug 30, 2006)

*Discipline!*

The first part after surgery is the worst. Not only do you have some serious pain, but the sling/brace is a major problem.
The ice pump machine from Amazon is great, get a good recliner.
The immobilazation is first and very important! No movement.

R


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

I haven't been able to sleep with my arm under my pillow for over a year. Still haven't went to a doctor as it's manageable pain-wise and to date doesn't affect my mtb'ing since my arm is kept low. It actually got pretty good a few months after initial pain started (2 days after a slow OTB on my bike at Natty) but then has come back. Pain using a towel above my head, pain if I should put my arm under the pillow....pain pain pain. Arhhhg, guess I need a doc finally as time is no longer healing all wounds apparently.


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## KentM (Aug 10, 2010)

I went through the surgery and had a great experience. PM me and I can go through it with you. My surgeon was George Thabitt III from SOAR in Redwood City. My bro-in-law and another buddy went to him as well. All with great experiences. Rehab just as important and can explain but too lazy to type.


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## hillcountryav (Jun 8, 2011)

I have my six week appointment Monday, I'm hopping for the start of rehab next.


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## Map204 (May 29, 2012)

I crashed with another rider on Monday and my shoulder hurts. It's feeling a little better, but after reading this post, maybe I won't cancel that doctor's appointment...


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## hillcountryav (Jun 8, 2011)

So on Monday I was given the ok to loose the sling and I start physical therapy Monday. If I had to guess I'd say I have around 40% range in motion at best. I think is going to be a long road to 100%.


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## Map204 (May 29, 2012)

hillcountryav said:


> So on Monday I was given the ok to loose the sling and I start physical therapy Monday. If I had to guess I'd say I have around 40% range in motion at best. I think is going to be a long road to 100%.


Good luck!


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## axisofoil (Aug 21, 2012)

waltaz said:


> Meeting with the surgeon today to discuss the plan, but in talking with the PA yesterday, I got the sense that I have a big repair coming, and a lengthly recovery.


It's easier if you think of them as "upgrades" rather than "repairs".


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## hillcountryav (Jun 8, 2011)

axisofoil said:


> It's easier if you think of them as "upgrades" rather than "repairs".


Bionics!!!


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

Good luck to you. I'm nearly recovered from breaking the glendoid and tearing the labrum over the summer. Had surgery in August and finished physical therapy this week. I'll never have full range of motion back.


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## hillcountryav (Jun 8, 2011)

ryguy79 said:


> never have full range of motion back.


Thanks for the encouragement. It's going to suck Monday for the first PT secession.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

hillcountryav said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. It's going to suck Monday for the first PT secession.


Well I'll never have full range back by design. I discussed my options with my surgeon and chose this route. Between the initial injury and surgery my shoulder would dislocate doing the simplest things, like pulling a door closed. Its been tightened so it won't dislocate anymore, but at a loss of some range of motion.

My advice, work really hard at PT. I did, and my surgeon and therapist were impressed enough by my recovery that we stopped PT a month earlier than planned.


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## bbbr (Nov 6, 2005)

I'm slowly rehabbing the repair work done on a pair of tears in the labrum (3 anchors in one, 1 anchor in the other I ignored for years) of my left shoulder and boy is it maddeningly slow. Tried to plow a trench with my left shoulder in April and delayed the surgery till the fall to ensure i could have some fun in the summer. Constantly having my shoulder dislocating was obnoxious but I've done worse (trashed ankle, used to "pop" it back in by slamming it into a wall repeatedly...). PT and a good Massage Therapist experienced in shoulder work go a long way in helping to keep things moving though and the restrictions are slowly being lifted. I'm still not allowed to do certain things and simple actions like taking off a jacket aren't as simple as they were. 

My surgeon compared knee rehab to shoulder rehab as "checkers to chess" in complexity/difficulty and having experienced both now, it's pretty a spot on comparison imho. If all goes well- I'll be allowed on the road bike in March, back in the woods by May and DH'ing mid to late summer.


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## hazmatt480 (Nov 5, 2012)

*It gets better!*

I dislocated my shoulder back in April, had surgery in June, and am almost 100% i you're my labrum 270 deg. I now have 5 screws holding my shoulder together. I finish my pt tomorrow, but will still work on my shoulder from here on out. If you need a good PT or orthopedic surgeon i have both.... They are both in the east valley, active Spine and sport and dr. farber .... Good luck!


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Walt, what's the latest?

I finally went to the doctor today after mine got much worse over the weekend. Couldn't even lift my arm to unlock the gate on the side of the yard. X-Rays showed no broken bone so PT was ordered for a rotator cuff injury. thinking of doing acupuncture as well. It's really annoying at this point and the pain is radiating over the entire shoulder now. Even drinking beer with my left hand is becoming a chore. This is how I know it's SERIOUS.


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## hazmatt480 (Nov 5, 2012)

eatdrinkride said:


> Walt, what's the latest?
> 
> I finally went to the doctor today after mine got much worse over the weekend. Couldn't even lift my arm to unlock the gate on the side of the yard. X-Rays showed no broken bone so PT was ordered for a rotator cuff injury. thinking of doing acupuncture as well. It's really annoying at this point and the pain is radiating over the entire shoulder now. Even drinking beer with my left hand is becoming a chore. This is how I know it's SERIOUS.


Torn labrum and possible tenodesis... I went through the same thing a few years ago. Good luck take the rehab seriously.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Surgery is next Weds, Dec. 12...less than a week now!

Still lifting as best I can, with some limited weights and ranges of motion, and riding. Doesn't really bother me riding, but I do try to watch out for it.

I plan on being religious with my rehab, but not gonna lie...I'm worried about the first few weeks...:-/


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

waltaz said:


> Surgery is next Weds, Dec. 12...less than a week now!
> 
> Still lifting as best I can, with some limited weights and ranges of motion, and riding. Doesn't really bother me riding, but I do try to watch out for it.
> 
> ...


Good luck. I've seen pics of you and your arms and shoulders don't seem to be a weak point, lol. Just goes to show, injury can happen to anyone.

Riding doesn't bother me at this point either as the arms are pretty much kept low. Maybe if I was yanking up on my bars a lot, like riding a SS, it might bother me more. Doc did agree that my injury most likely happened with an OTB's a year ago...


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## patspet (Dec 5, 2012)

I have my six week appointment Monday, I'm hopping for the start of rehab next.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

patspet said:


> I have my six week appointment Monday, I'm hopping for the start of rehab next.


How have the first 6 weeks been for you? How long were you immobilized?

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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Update: Had surgery on Weds, Dec 12. Shoulder was messed up more than thought...in addition to rotator cuff, top of biceps tendon was "shredded"...big repair, but doc said went well. Got a bunch of metal and plastic screws in there now.

Most discomfort was as the nerve block wore off, and before the Vicodin took hold...about 12-16 hours post-surgery. Been religious about taking two Vikes and 600-800 mg ibuprofen every four hours, and it's been OK. Dropping down to only one Vike starting this morning...hopefully get off that stuff by the end of the weekend. Ice machine has been key...hooked to it 24/7 thus far.

First night kinda sucked, trying to find a less painful sitting up position, but been OK since...even laid back pretty flat last night!

My wife has been awesome...it would not have gone this smooth without her!!

Doc took some pics thru the scope...








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## propguy (Oct 2, 2008)

waltaz said:


> Update: Had surgery on Weds, Dec 12. Shoulder was messed up more than thought...in addition to rotator cuff, top of biceps tendon was "shredded"...big repair, but doc said went well. Got a bunch of metal and plastic screws in there now.
> 
> Most discomfort was as the nerve block wore off, and before the Vicodin took hold...about 12-16 hours post-surgery. Been religious about taking two Vikes and 600-800 mg ibuprofen every four hours, and it's been OK. Dropping down to only one Vike starting this morning...hopefully get off that stuff by the end of the weekend. Ice machine has been key...hooked to it 24/7 thus far.
> 
> ...


Let me know how your recovery is going. I had a bad crash last May that left me with a broken scapula, multiple rib fractures and surgery/plate to my collar bone. Been having pain in the shoulder and just found out I need to have the rotator cuff and bicep tendon surgery similar to yours. I've been riding without problems since July, but have a tough time lifting anything above shoulder height. Good that you're off the Vicodin - nasty stuff...


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Propguy, I'm at 12 weeks now, and feeling pretty good. Shoulder is still a bit stiff at times, as I work on the rest of the ROM (range of motion), and I've started doing "baby weights" to strengthen it bit by bit. I'll be progressing more on the weights over the next few weeks. The doc gave me clearance to do some easy road biking, but doesn't want me on the mountain bike for a few more weeks. That said, I may sneak out this weekend on an easy trail to just get out on some dirt and spin a bit. All in all, it's coming along well, and been better than I thought.

BTW, I tore mine up in September, and had surgery in December, and was able to ride hard that whole time, without really any pain. It really affected my lifting, and raising my arm above shoulder height, but riding was OK. Good luck!


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

I had a similar semi-catastrophic injury in 2008, at the age of 55. I also required surgery, and a significant amount of 'retained hardware'.
All I can say now is that PT rehab, and strengthening exercises are absolutely necessary, and likel will be, for the remainder of your lives. I had rehabbed' mine quite well. I twas painful at times, but I was able to just about regain full stength and ROM. 
Then last year I was knocked on my ass by another medical condition, and was unable to do my maintenance work out for over 6 months.. no pain issues arose to signal any changes, but when I went back to the gym in the last month, I found I cannot even do pushups without all kinds of ominous popping and grinding noises. All other motions are progressing back to pre-layoff levels, but the pushup-bench press area is clearly compromised. 

My feeling is, that if I had not ceased working out for that half-year, this would not have happened. 

So, following your rehab, be absolutely certain to commit yourself to regularly maintaining your rotator cuff and shoulder strength. Surgery can fix a lot, but we have to do our part, and some of that part involves a life-long effort, unfortunately.


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## mvray (Jul 26, 2007)

I know the drill. Crashed skiing back in February that resulted in a displaced greater tuberosity fracture (upper arm/humerus) and rotator cuff tears. Had a couple pins installed and the tears stitched. It's been a long road to recovery and very frustrating/painful at times. Did PT, followed instructions and have almost full range of motion 10 weeks after surgery. Got my first ride yesterday on a flat rail trail. Felt good and I'll slowly work up.


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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Just got my MRI results back and I have a large/massive tear of the supraspinatus tendon that will require open (non scope) surgery. Not sure what to expect here. Some great info in here, can I have some long term updates. Anyone regret having the surgery?


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

socalMX said:


> Just got my MRI results back and I have a large/massive tear of the supraspinatus tendon that will require open (non scope) surgery. Not sure what to expect here. Some great info in here, can I have some long term updates. Anyone regret having the surgery?


I don't regret the surgery, but there are problems. First off I will once again not lie here: that surgery was the most painful surgery I have had to date in terms of post-op pain, and I have had quite a few trauma-related surgeries. 
I'm no fan of surgery, but thank god for surgeons when there are multiple fractures, bullet fragments and shrapnel-related damage that simply must be removed/repaired.

My supraspinatus was fully ruptured and had retract6ed into a ball that had begun to turn towards fatty atrophy. Not an ideal scenario. Much drilling and tugging later, it was re-attached, along with extensive repairs to my infrascapularis as well as an osteotomy on a type 3 acromion.

So, the post-op pain was intense for a length of time that I did not believe would be possible. This resulted in the ingestion of more opioid analgesics than I was comfortable with, or rather a bit TOO comfortable with.

The good news....I rehabbed it to 90% of perfect.

The bad news ; without constant effort to maintain that re-hab, it regresses. I had one year where I was affected by an old trauma-related inner ear condition; severe vertigo bouts, tinnitus, and an amazing amount of fatigue literally kept me from maintaining the muscle mass and RC strength that I had slowly rebuilt, and the sloppiness in the joint returned, full force.

So now, inner ear under control, I have regained first the cardio fitness I had taken for granted for the last 3 decades. Now, I am set to once again drag myself into the gym 4 days a week and resume the shoulder rehab/strengthening routine from ground zero, so to speak, and try to see how much I can regain.

I'm no spring chicken anymore....been 60 for some time now, and I know that recovery and strength gains are not as easy to come by, so to speak, as when I was younger.

But what else is a guy gonna do? I've been riding the fat tire FS 29er on a combo of roads/trails for over a month now, at least 5 days/nights a week, minimum of 20 miles per ride, more like 30 or more on average. 
The fact that I can now do that is in itself encouraging. Tells me no major arteries are blocked, etc.

So, on to phase 2, fully cognizant that this is a long-haul proposition, one that I'll need to stick to for life.

Good luck to you with yours. If you are younger than me, and have no other complicating factors, like I do, you should do fairly well if you are methodical and consistent in your rehab efforts.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

socalMX, how old are you, what do you do for a living, what chance do you have to take time to rehabilitate, can you spend, 6-12 weeks in a sling etc. RC repair (open is really the best IMO), plus acromioplasty, plus associated surgery to other issues is not to be taken lightly surgery. It's painful, expensive and recovery is and has to be slow. 

More important is how you will measure your recovery. This is a professional medical opinion (limited as expected online), qualified by saying that I have not torn a RC. At 53 and (think ping pong) after 3 clavicle #'s, one GT of humerus avulsion, one torn coracoclavicular ligament and partial AC joint tear, one fractured scapula and many other upper body injuries, I can give some personal perspective on shoulder rehab. 

Re acute management:

First - a young person with an acute tear is not the same as my age or older, with a lesser injury on chronic degeneration causing a massive RC tear
Next - instability due to associated glenohumoral joint injury, whether labral (the cartilage rim of the joint) or just ligament tearing changes immediate treatment options
Then - what you are expecting as the outcome is a big thing

Weigh up your rehab. Home mortgage, family responsibilities and inescapable work commitments may change your decisions. Can you drive with a sling - nup. If you can't have surgery now, when will you be able to and can you drive anyway in the meantime etc etc etc. You know your wife is going to hate you for getting hurt no matter what, so at least that isn't another option!

It's not about whether you can bench press more weight than before you got a cold. Sorry!

For me it is about whether I can keep sleeping, working, paying the bills, riding my bike, swinging a pick at trailwork, having fun, skiing at times and it's probably in that order. What I can say is that despite the apparent stupidity of it, digging trail has been the single best rehab program I could have used (many times). No goals in terms of power, just technique. No commitment to performing a certain task to some schedule - if it feels odd on the mattock, get a rake, or a shovel, change hands or get a drink, or review the trail contours you have built, take photos or get some test dummy to try the new berm to off-camber to hip and have a chat. 

I guess sometimes I measure callouses to assess progress, but what I am really saying is that the capacity to do many things, including those most important to you allows enough variation in your rehab to make your shoulder handle changes in routine. Also, unless you have significant posteroinferior (low and back parts of the glenohumoral joint) instability, riding is not too risky for a hurt shoulder, which has been great for me. 

So, after you choose your immediate (surgical) options, then you have to go with your gut about how it feels over time, whether it is getting better, feels secure and stronger and whether it really is time to smash that berm to off camber to hip.........


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## bbbr (Nov 6, 2005)

I'm coming up on the 1.5 year mark for my labrum repairs and 2 year mark for the larger of the two tears (the little one is about 6.5 years old and was fairly asymptomatic until the crash). Not quite apples to apples compared to other posters in the thread but its still shoulder work with a long, slow rehab and a massive pile of restrictions.

Looking back at it, the first week really sucked pain management wise. I've had 7 knee surgeries hogging out cartilage (the same day surgical center staff and I trade x-mas cards...) and dealt with the "joys" that are kidney stones and frankly- I'd rather have the stones than do another round of shoulder work. I like to think I'm tough and can handle pain but damn that hurt. Especially when the nerve block wore off at 2am and i came wide awake in agony through the big damn percocets i was taking. Took me over 3 weeks to be free of the Rx meds completely during the day, longer for the night. For comparison, with all the knee work I never felt a need nor took the prescription painkillers for more than a day. 

I was able to drive pretty fast, my ortho cleared me at my post-op follow up along with a return to work part-time, providing i followed some strict restrictions on what I was doing and taking Rx wise. I organized most of my operations (i run a laser welder making Li-Ion batteries, some of which are scampering on Mars) to allow for one handed operations. I also trained up a tech i called "my left arm" for the jobs that required two free hands and some skill to complete. That worked out pretty well for the 8 weeks i was locked in the immobilizer sling. Day to day stuff was pretty interesting while i was one handed. Being a lefty with a damaged left arm meant trying to relearn basic things like bathroom functions, eating with the wrong hand and opening doors. I got pretty good at a lot of it by the time my 8 weeks were up. 

Rehab- what a long, arduous adventure that's never quite ended. I spent 4 months in formal pt and got regular massages on the shoulder and back to help loosen things up. When pt ended I had about 95% of my range of motion back and could put on a jacket correctly, which was no small feet compared to the year prior. Long term, what I've found mimics Ridnparadise's experience- if you stop the rehab/exercises everything tightens right the hell back up and what a pain it is to get back to where you were before. 

Timing- I planned mine around my company's move to another state. The idea was to be able to be out on short term disability while the old facility was shut down and shuffled north, sparing me the problems the move would bring and allowing time for my particular option to get put back together. Needless to say, the move failed to happen on time and the best laid plans got shot all to hell. We finally moved 5 months after my surgery and I got layed off since the new place was barely functional and would take months to get going. Spent a day unemployed, got recalled the next morning to help clear the rest of the old facility- ended up moving roughly ~10 tons of haz-waste around on barrel carts, grabbing whatever the folks in the new facility asked for (a lot of stuff was left behind in the hurry to go do nothing) and destroying unwanted desks and other office furniture with my 16lb brass sledge hammer. Definitely not the best thing for the shoulder and likely caused a tear in my rt knee's meniscus (surgery #7, happened in Nov of 2013. almost allowed outside again...). But it was that or stay unemployed and collect 2/3rds of paycheck and still have to pay for my health insurance. 

I also had plans already laid out for the summer on the bike and wasn't all that willing to trade the down time. I was told by my Ortho that "when we do the repair is a matter of how long you can handle the pain" and i got 4 months out of the shoulder. Completed multiple Centuries, played in the woods a bit and managed to go DH'ing a few times (including a trip to Highland the day before surgery. that got some looks in the OR). I probably could've delayed a little longer but the pain was getting to me and starting to interfere with my enjoyment on the bike. 

Any regrets doing the surgery? Nope, my Ortho & PT were honest about the length of time it would take to rehab and just how much pain i was going to be in. My shoulder is just about as strong as it was moments before the accident, the ROM is right up there and I'm no longer in pain from the shoulder constantly dislocating.

Would I do it again? Only if there was no way around it and more conservative measures had failed.


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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Thanks for the updates everyone. Some interesting stories there. I like this paragraph most- "Any regrets doing the surgery? Nope, my Ortho & PT were honest about the length of time it would take to rehab and just how much pain i was going to be in. My shoulder is just about as strong as it was moments before the accident, the ROM is right up there and I'm no longer in pain from the shoulder constantly dislocating.'

Most everything else is pretty discouraging. I am searching the interwebs for alternate non-op solutions but it doesn't look promising. If I didn't ride bikes, lift weights, work in the construction industry or do any other outdoor activities I suppose I could skip surgery and risk loss of my ROM and let it heal as is. Not an option...I am 41 and hope to have many more years left on the bike, I simply need to get better and not crash so much, that in conjunction with becoming a more mild XC type rider I guess!?


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Hey all...I'm the thread starter! Saw some activity, so I figured I'd provide an update.

I'm 14 months post-surgery, and have been fully recovered for a while. Was back to full speed probably six months after surgery. Just did a 24-hour race solo SS...did 170 miles. I've been back in the gym for a while, at full strength and 95-99% ROM. The shoulder can be a bit "crunchy", and feels stiff deep into certain exercises, but no big deal. I do everything I did pre-injury. Riding is a non-issue, though I haven't crashed on it again.

The surgery went really well for me, and my shoulder was torn up (see above). I was off pain meds within a week. The key, in my opinion, is the surgeon. The better he is; the better the outcome, recovery and pain.

Good luck, and make sure to be an excellent and obedient PT and rehab patient. You don't want to shortcut that!!


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## pwrtrainer (Oct 23, 2005)

I'll second that with a caveat that massive tears are difficult to repair and the outcomes are fair. Make sure your therapist has some experience with these things. Not just full thickness but massive. Usually you are restricted quite a bit initially post op, then minimal movement or isometrics, then at around 12 weeks you're able to start pushing. Take a look at insurance benefits for therapy and see how many visits you have annually. If you have something like 20 be prepared to pay cash for additional therapy. Discuss this with the therapist because it is a long recovery that needs god rehab to be successful. Good surgeon+good therapy = likely good outcome.


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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

waltaz said:


> Hey all...I'm the thread starter! Saw some activity, so I figured I'd provide an update.
> 
> I'm 14 months post-surgery, and have been fully recovered for a while. Was back to full speed probably six months after surgery. Just did a 24-hour race solo SS...did 170 miles. I've been back in the gym for a while, at full strength and 95-99% ROM. The shoulder can be a bit "crunchy", and feels stiff deep into certain exercises, but no big deal. I do everything I did pre-injury. Riding is a non-issue, though I haven't crashed on it again.
> 
> ...


That is encouraging, I just have to stop doing so much research and let it happen, I am driving myself nuts with it. I cant wait to get it over with & start my recovery.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

socalMX said:


> That is encouraging, I just have to stop doing so much research and let it happen, I am driving myself nuts with it. I cant wait to get it over with & start my recovery.


^^Totally agree! I was pretty nervous about my surgery, after reading about how painful, etc, that shoulders can be, particularly given that mine was a big tear with other stuff going on, but it turned out far better than expected, on all counts. Make sure your surgeon is a good one, and if possible, find one that works with pro sports teams...they're the best. My guy is one of the orthopedic surgeons for the Arizona Cardinals and Phoenix Coyotes.

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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, I am scheduled for Surgery a week from tomorrow, March the 7th. My surgeons (it will be a team) have several decades of experience between them and have great reviews but they are old, one is 82 and his partner is 62, wow... I guess I would trust them over a rookie! I am such a big wimp, how the hell am I going to sleep this week???


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

socalMX said:


> Well, I am scheduled for Surgery a week from tomorrow, March the 7th. My surgeons (it will be a team) have several decades of experience between them and have great reviews but they are old, one is 82 and his partner is 62, wow... I guess I would trust them over a rookie! I am such a big wimp, how the hell am I going to sleep this week???


That's good.....for a full RC rupture you need two guys....one to pull the muscle out from the retracted ball-shape it assumes when it ruptures, usually with some kind of surgical-level vice-grips, and the other to screw it into the bone, back in place.

Depending on the degree of damage they have to clean up, your sleep quality will vary that first week.....I sure hope for your sake that your shoulder is not as screwed up as mine was. I had decades worth of successive injuries to it before it gave on me. The supraspinatus was retracted into a ball for so long that 'fatty atrophy' of the muscle part had begun to set in. That's a long time that I was swinging away with no supraspinatus whatsoever. The PT said the movements I was accomplishing before the surgery were mechanically impossible. Where there's a will, there's a way, I guess....


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Glad to hear positive recovery stories! I injured my shoulder years ago wrestling with my son(They get stronger than you think. lol) Therapy and exercise wasn't working any longer and it was hurting when I rode also so I found a time in my schedule that worked, timing it after ski season and in the spring so that I would be able to ride at the end of the summer. 

I had Bicep tendosis and RC repair along with a bone spur removal last week. Started PT yesterday and the pain level isn't too bad with just sharp pain that subsides during movement/exercises. The Ice machine is great as was the Norco after surgery. 
My Wife had Labrum and RC repair 6 years ago so she is telling me what to expect.
I realize PT and is the most important and keeping up with exercise in the future will be key to keeping the shoulder strong.
Bummed out about not being able to ride for 3-4 months but I know in the end I will be pain free and able to resume other activities that I couldn't do on account of weakness and pain.

A question I have is how long until you guys hit the trail on your bikes?


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

3 1/2 months til the easy trail


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Thanks Walt. That's what I figured and what everyone had said.
I hope to start on a stationary bike soon to keep my cardio up so that I'm at least not starting from scratch in 3 months. I'm 54 so getting back into shape is a bit harder than a youngster.


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## Okie Dokie (May 14, 2008)

Thanks for starting this thread Waltaz. I am having an MRI today (hope if I can sneak it in) and am worried I am going to find out I have a Rotator Cuff tear. Took fall week ago and can't really move arm away from body at all now. 

What worries me the most is that I can't be off work for 8 weeks as can't afford it. I am hoping that I will be able to work one handed but I worry that will be hard if I do need surgery. Just about the worst timing for this to have happened


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Disability helps while your off. I'd be in big trouble without it.
Good luck!


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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

I am about 10 weeks out of my full open surgery. My incision was just under 4" and there were 4 plastic anchors installed to hold the threading in place. My tear was unique in that it went with the grain of the muscle, splitting open. From the time I went into surgery to today I would be happy to inform anyone going in, it is not half as bad as what I was reading on the interwebs. In fact I took the Norco they gave me for only 2 days and only about half of what was prescribed...


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

Okie Dokie said:


> Thanks for starting this thread Waltaz. I am having an MRI today (hope if I can sneak it in) and am worried I am going to find out I have a Rotator Cuff tear. Took fall week ago and can't really move arm away from body at all now.
> 
> What worries me the most is that I can't be off work for 8 weeks as can't afford it. I am hoping that I will be able to work one handed but I worry that will be hard if I do need surgery. Just about the worst timing for this to have happened


I found that I could work with my arm in a sling.....I found I could have 1-1/2 arms, so to speak. Since my bicep tendon was unaffected, I could extend/flex my affected arm without abducting it at all, and my forearm flexors, etc. were all good to go. So I could hold a heavy tool, like a weedeater, in my right arm and guide it with my sling arm. Just had to shift my weight, and turn from the waist, keep the elbow in close, which is a basic principle of body mechanics that most athletes learn about. I knew all about it from my martial art training. lt's nice to know those skills are useful for more than just breaking legs!


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

pwrtrainer said:


> I'll second that with a caveat that massive tears are difficult to repair and the outcomes are fair. Make sure your therapist has some experience with these things. Not just full thickness but massive. Usually you are restricted quite a bit initially post op, then minimal movement or isometrics, then at around 12 weeks you're able to start pushing. Take a look at insurance benefits for therapy and see how many visits you have annually. If you have something like 20 be prepared to pay cash for additional therapy. Discuss this with the therapist because it is a long recovery that needs god rehab to be successful. Good surgeon+good therapy = likely good outcome.


^^^ This is good advice! :thumbsup:


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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Update on my surgery recovery from several months back, it did not go so well so 3 days ago, I HAD ANOTHER!:madman:










Yes that is correct, they cut me back open. Hope this time around things really get better...


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

socalMX said:


> Update on my surgery recovery from several months back, it did not go so well so 3 days ago, I HAD ANOTHER!:madman:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn!

Good Luck SoCal! Hope they got it all fixed up for you!


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

That sucks. I don't envy you, but I wish you the best.


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## danorano (Nov 14, 2012)

eatdrinkride said:


> Walt, what's the latest?
> 
> I finally went to the doctor today after mine got much worse over the weekend. Couldn't even lift my arm to unlock the gate on the side of the yard. X-Rays showed no broken bone so PT was ordered for a rotator cuff injury. thinking of doing acupuncture as well. It's really annoying at this point and the pain is radiating over the entire shoulder now. Even drinking beer with my left hand is becoming a chore. This is how I know it's SERIOUS.


You probably have tendonitis with impingement syndrome which is causing bursitis. Did your doc suggest an injection of cortisone to relieve the inflammation?


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

*BFST , Blood Flow Stimulation Therapy*

Has anyone tried *BFST *for Rotor Cuff Repair recovery? 
4 weeks after *Rotor Cuff & Bicep* tear repair surgery and not enjoying it.
Ready to try 'something'.


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## Ricisan (Aug 30, 2006)

I was imobilised for the first six weeks. Do yourself a favor and do as your told!


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## propguy (Oct 2, 2008)

@jp08865 - Have you started doctor prescribed PT yet? Had my surgery 7/15/14. Three anchors for a full tear (bifurcated) rotator cuff. My Dr. would not start my therapy for 6 weeks. Some are more conservative and will wait 8 weeks. Just be patient. To answer your question, no I haven't tried that type of therapy. Talk to you Dr. about it. I was off my bike for 4 months. Been riding since November and have 90% + ROM. Good luck!


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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Same here, 2 1/2 weeks out of surgery and losing my mind with this HUGE abduction pillow but must be patient and do as the Dr. said, keep it immobile for 6 weeks!


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## propguy (Oct 2, 2008)

Yes, just be patient!! You'll be back at it soon enough. Just think, when will you ever be able to watch this many episodes of Dr. Phil again? Seriously, do as your Dr. prescribes! You DON'T want to go through this again.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

Thanks guys, just really disgusted with lack of progress. Yes, started PT 3 days after surgery and immobilized for 6 weeks minimum as per surgeon. Doc seems satisfied with condition, I'm just whiney. Have NOT slept properly in over a month. Just sick and tired of being sick and tired and sitting around doing nothing. 
*Thanks Again*, sometimes just knowing others are in the same boat is re-assuring.


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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Started PT 3 days after? Maybe 3 weeks???

I am 3 weeks post op and I feel ya man, sleeping with this HUGE abduction pillow is a b**ch. Mostly on the couch recliner and away from the wife! I am not sitting around doing nothing though, 2 large golden retrievers love the many dog walks and as crazy as it sounds, been riding the bike a lot on the flat bike path, just cant stop! hahaha... My shoulder feels great on the bars without the pillow & I just cruise along...


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Be Patient! I had Surgery in May for my Rotator and Bicep. I spent Post op walking and doing mellow hikes, then went to riding the beach cruiser around town, then back on the bike at four months. I have full motion and almost full strength now.
Take your time and follow your Doctors advise and hit the rehab hard. That's the best thing you can do.


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

socalMX said:


> Started PT 3 days after? Maybe 3 weeks???
> 
> I am 3 weeks post op and I feel ya man, sleeping with this HUGE abduction pillow is a b**ch. Mostly on the couch recliner and away from the wife! I am not sitting around doing nothing though, 2 large golden retrievers love the many dog walks and as crazy as it sounds, been riding the bike a lot on the flat bike path, just cant stop! hahaha... My shoulder feels great on the bars without the pillow & I just cruise along...


I did the same thing you re doing, so let me give you a tip.

Stay off the trees and other skinnies!


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

_" Stay off the trees and other skinnies!" _You must know me, as I was just starting to feel good doing trees & skinnies. At 62, I'm ready to accept _maybe _giving up jumping but........
Oh well, at this point I will be happy to just get back on the bike, back to work and a somewhat normal life !
_Riding on a path in 3 weeks,_ wow it's still painfull getting a little jarred around in a car at 6 weeks. I can't even imagine holding on to the bars yet ! 
PT has just stepped it up a notch _(man that little girl can be brutal)_. 
I tried to cancel my PT on Friday from being really sore from me over doing it on Wednesday. 
The therapist called me back and told me _(in a more diplomatic way) _you WILL be here for your 2:00 appointment, OR I will hurt you on Monday .
Had a good session (3rd in a row) so Hopefully things are going to get going forward now.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

12 weeks in, Patience ran out. Surgeon now not satisfied either with progress_ (or lack of)_ sent for another MRI to see if there is a re-tear, waiting for surgeon visit to interpret MRI Results, didn't do anything to re-tear, so hoping for the best.


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## Maizie88 (Apr 29, 2014)

The BFST (blood flow stimulation therapy) mentioned above will unfortunately not help heal complete tears of the rotator cuff. It will however help heal partial tears and will accelerate the healling process post op. The increased circulation not only helps you heal faster, it also lubricates the area to help prevent re-injury. This is a great treatment with a very comfortable neoprene wrap to help with immobilization. It also saves tonnes of money on PT. Here's more info I googled for those interested:
Rotator Cuff Treatment


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## KentM (Aug 10, 2010)

Maizie88 said:


> The BFST (blood flow stimulation therapy) mentioned above will unfortunately not help heal complete tears of the rotator cuff. It will however help heal partial tears and will accelerate the healling process post op. The increased circulation not only helps you heal faster, it also lubricates the area to help prevent re-injury. This is a great treatment with a very comfortable neoprene wrap to help with immobilization. It also saves tonnes of money on PT. Here's more info for those interested...
> Rotator Cuff Treatment by King Brand


Be careful of these "magic" treatments. Nothing replaces PT. If you don't do your PT, you will pay for it by losing mobility and and being not much better off than you were before you went under the knife. Also, a doctor really doesn't know what you have until they get into your shoulder. I had a partial tear and when I went in for surgery, the tear was with the tendon, not across it. The doctor decided that it was best left as is and he cleaned up the tissue cartilage, shaved off the hook on my AC joint and cleaned up my labrum. A doctor cannot see this on MRI's for partial tears. I've been full strength for over 4 years.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

*FYI*, I did order and try the BFST from King. Unfortunately as much as I was hoping, I personally did not feel or see any positive results within the 30 day trial period so returned the unit.


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## meridius77 (Oct 6, 2005)

"... then back on the bike at four months. I have full motion and almost full strength now."
Hey bro I saw that you mentioned you were back on the bike in 4 months. I'm 37 and just had a full thickness tear repaired on Feb 20th. Doc said 3 - 4 months for me too, but not sure he really understands how aggressive mountain biking is? Could you ride aggressive and ride a DH bike at 4 or 5 months? Or were you taking it easy on smooth trails? I ride in the desert all year and then mammoth and northstar in the summer and we are about to book our trip to tahoe. is it realistic to think i'll be on my dh bike in 4.5 months? (If the answer is no just lie to me lol) Dont' want to waste money on this trip if i won't be able to bike. Thanks!


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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

You should be fine although I would probably skip the jump lines. At that point any get off could destroy the repair as things are still healing/bonding in there. I was riding pretty aggressive rock gardens 3 months post op with no major pains. I am 40 and simply gave in to the fact I don't bounce off the ground like I used to and now take pleasure in more AM type riding chasing smoother flowy single track...


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## meridius77 (Oct 6, 2005)

Thanks bro! I truly appreciate your info. love to hear rock gardens are in my near future! I hear ya on the ground bounce factor. Overshot a wooden landing on skid marks in Mammoth back in July. Ragdolled 75 ft down the mtn. Very lucky to walk away but i Got destroyed... broken collarbone, ripped my leg up (stitches), massive hematoma on my leg, broke my helmet, and probably the reason my cuff completely tore (its been torn for years). Finally healed from all that and went under the knife. have fun out there!


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## Hardluckhero (Jun 4, 2010)

Everyone's different. I had 3 of the 4 tendons repaired, full thickness of the Supra. I was riding at 4 months but very easy trails and it took a couple of weeks before my shoulder was strong enough to not get tired and feel too weak after about 4 miles. The real killer for me were G-outs and jumps were definitely out. It was about 6 months before I was able to really get after it without pain and the strength and stability felt good. I'm at 8 months post op now and feel like I'm killing it. I told my buddies I was going to come back with a vengeance and am not passing up any chance to ride my ass off.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

*MRI, showed NO re-tear *. 
Surgeon had Therapist 'step-up' the PT and things started picking up a lot. Now 16 weeks later, got on the bike _(should have done it weeks ago)_ and going easy but loving it. We all know how riding makes us feel, and I think it is the *best* PT for the shoulder


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