# Great Divide Race



## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

I know it's a ways off, but is anyone thinking about it?

http://www.greatdividerace.com/


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## Beolin (Apr 19, 2006)

That looks epic, I've read about doing the great divide, I'll have to add it to my list of things to do, right after an Ironman.


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

I'm in this year (07). Got the time off work in advance. Looking forward to an amazing challenge.


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## Krein (Jul 3, 2004)

pbasinger said:


> I know it's a ways off, but is anyone thinking about it?


Not really...

Thinking about these?

AZT - http://www.topofusion.com/azt/race.php
CT - http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=220121
GLR - http://greatdividerace.com/_wsn/page4.html
GET - http://www.simblissity.net/grand_enchantment.shtml

_Yep._


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## jonassterling (Feb 15, 2005)

I'm always thinking about the GDR, just for 2008 not 2007. I'm hoping to have things together enough to attempt it in 08, as the very imminent arrival of offspring #2 makes 07 a no go.


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## Adam (Jan 12, 2004)

pbasinger said:


> I know it's a ways off, but is anyone thinking about it?
> 
> http://www.greatdividerace.com/


Always "thinking", its the actual execution that buggers me up.

Adam


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## MarkoInTheBoat (Apr 16, 2006)

I wont be racing the GDR in '07 but I am putting my money on Jay Petervery to lead the pack to Antelope Wells.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*I'll be there*

I still have the fixie carrot hanging out there for me.... I'm shooting for 25-30 days and I won't be napping on the side of any MT roads

I am also thinking about riding the canada prolog as well.... 

Gonna ride it a little bit lighter this year as well try and get the gear down to 10-15lbs

Thinking about taking a lock this time


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## the_dude (Jun 18, 2004)

SlowerThenSnot said:


> Thinking about taking a lock this time


just nap naked with a gun in your hand. i know _i_ wouldn't steal a bike from a guy like that.


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## Jay P (Dec 16, 2005)

I've been thinking about it none stop, day in day out. Marco, thanks for the encouragement, I will be thinking of you as I go through Steamboat. So yes, I've been thinking and am committed. It's been a fun year planning as it will not stop until we start rolling away on June 17. Peter, I would love to chat more if interested, as you are a veteren to the race.
Jay


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Jay, I’m the same way. A little obsessed I guess. I’m always thinking about this thing. Use this forum for any questions/discussion about the race. Lots of veterans on here that can chime in.
Spread the word too. The more competition the better. 
Anyone that is interested, but a little unsure if this is for them, check out the “A day in the life” section on the website to get an idea what the GDR is like.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*um, yeah...*

Pete, it's easy to comprehend (for those of us that have followed the race) why you are still affected by the GDR. I hope you're at the start, and maybe the prologue this year.

It's also understandable that interest remains moderate for this biggie. I am coming to the opinion that this race ought be run every other year to build more hype.

To participate, or even to prepare _can_ be infatuating. Yeah, the route might not be singletrack but the net adventure of race-touring 7+ days straight will teach you things you never knew about yourself.

GDR (or at least GDMBR) =rite of passage


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## willapajames (Dec 18, 2005)

I'm not planning on racing it, but I do intend on riding the route soon...lightly loaded. I've never done any endurance racing, but I have done some long distance backpacking. I hiked the entire Appalachian Trail the summer after I graduated highschool. I got a little carried away with trying to pass people ahead of me, and in the process, lost a bit of the enjoyment. Still 4 months in the woods was a great time. If I get to do the Great Divide Route, I wouldn't want to spoil the trip (for me) by racing it. Maybe I'll see you all out there though...


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*to each their onus*



willapajames said:


> I got a little carried away with trying to pass people ahead of me, and in the process, lost a bit of the enjoyment. Still 4 months in the woods was a great time. If I get to do the Great Divide Route, I wouldn't want to spoil the trip (for me) by racing it...


if it were not for the adoption of high-speed travel on long distance routes such as the great divide mtb route many of us would not get the chance to experience big trails end-to-end at one fell swoop. even a month off is pushing it for most normal jobs. this sense of accomplishment or "closure" is a big part of what attracts people to endurance bike racing. it offers us accelerated intake different than foot travel. there is magic, wonder in the macro too, especially w/rspt to great continental divide geography.

it is the onus of the racer to focus on the beauty, serenity, indigenous culture/flora/fauna even as she/he suffer through the pain of maximum exertion. i might even suggest beauty is magnified when emotions run high from suffering through pain. if one can't race and see both the forest AND the trees then they're missing one of the bigger points of backcountry endurance mountain bike racing. i guess that's part of why endurance sports are not for everyone.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*Well put*



mathewsen said:


> if it were not for the adoption of high-speed travel on long distance routes such as the great divide mtb route many of us would not get the chance to experience big trails end-to-end at one fell swoop. even a month off is pushing it for most normal jobs. this sense of accomplishment or "closure" is a big part of what attracts people to endurance bike racing. it offers us accelerated intake different than foot travel. there is magic, wonder in the macro too, especially w/rspt to great continental divide geography.
> 
> it is the onus of the racer to focus on the beauty, serenity, indigenous culture/flora/fauna even as she/he suffer through the pain of maximum exertion. i might even suggest beauty is magnified when emotions run high from suffering through pain. if one can't race and see both the forest AND the trees then they're missing one of the bigger points of backcountry endurance mountain bike racing. i guess that's part of why endurance sports are not for everyone.


Golly that is really well put! Matt


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

mathewsen said:


> Pete, it's easy to comprehend (for those of us that have followed the race) why you are still affected by the GDR. I hope you're at the start, and maybe the prologue this year.
> 
> It's also understandable that interest remains moderate for this biggie. I am coming to the opinion that this race ought be run every other year to build more hype.
> 
> ...


I think you need to keep in mind riders who have been planning on doing it this upcoming year.....whether they've planned ahead one year (me for instance) or five years for that matter. I, for one, would be pretty disappointed.

I really don't think this race is about hype. The kind of people who are ready to compete in a no fee, no registration, unsanctioned event aren't about hype. The spirit of this race in its current form is part of the attraction to many I'd think.

Just my $0.02.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

I think Matt would agree with you that the GDR is definitely not about hype, I'm of the same opinion but that doesn’t mean that hype is necessarily a bad thing. I think discussion and ideas on how to get this race a little more attention is always good. Either way, there will be a GDR this year.


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

I'm looking forward to seeing you back in Pete. I'm stoked too about the race. Won't be riding, of course, but covering it on the show. I hope to improve on the coverage but response to this past year was good and encouraging. Scott Hodge is planning to ride it so there's a good chance that I'll be there for the start.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*self-hype, maybe?*



> Originally Posted by*pbasinger*
> _I think Matt would agree with you that the GDR is definitely not about hype, I'm of the same opinion but that doesn't mean that hype is necessarily a bad thing. I think discussion and ideas on how to get this race a little more attention is always good. Either way, there will be a GDR this year_.


ok, so hype could be better substituted by a word like momentum, impetus or _anticipation_, even, which builds momentum.

for instance, the olympics are not held every four years simply for increased hype. to go to the olympics is epic on the scale of the divide race and people train their whole life for that opportunity. an every other year GDR would be in that spirit of rarity. if this was phased in for the GDR it would certainly be planned 2+ years in advance.

how many kids make a race? if the fields from the last three years of the GDR were combined into one event then we'd have a real, full-on race field...with _inner-hype_, let's say. it'd be a race likely to have more lead changes, more drama, more pressure on the racers and so on. these are the ingredients the GDR _might_ need to see its competitors' physical/psychological limits elevated to the next plane (if that's a goal). where one fellow/fella might have difficulty self-motivating yet shines chasing carrots, some might be good racing alone yet melt under the pressure of riders over-the-shoulder. all are "thrill of victory/agony of defeat" elements that attract us to competition. it's what GDR cyber-spectators like to read about. is it what gdr racers seek?

the first speed-effort on this great route may have been Stamstad's ITT, but it can be argued the best way to common-bond a field and really compare elapsed times (if the grail is "the record") is to emphasize the race against each other. an every-other-year format would condense fields/promote this dynamic. despite what some believe, its hard to make wholesale comparisons from one year's efforts to the next. and with 50% (or higher) attrition rates in the GDR, the race needs 20 starters to compare the times of 10 finishers. so far it's been demonstrated that it takes two years (or more) to accrue the interest of 20 competitors.

that said on GDR fields, many might disagree that what _they're_ looking for _is_ the solo experience on this route. that's also very special. one can find that any time on the divide route. its really up to the individual. As talent and speed are attracted to the event, race route enjoyment might be inversely proportional for some. the GDR_ is_ a race, though, and last i checked a race is a contest. contests are held between two or more people, usually for a prize (in ancient history it was for a woman, turf or food). does the GDR have a prize? an entry fee? you betcha. they're paid/awarded in varying currencies. the urgency is to make sure each contestant doesn't sacrifice their verve for the bike as entry fee or expect high glory as a prize. racers might, however, pick up a hot cowgirl (or boy) along the way if they "work it" right.


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

mathewsen said:


> that said on GDR fields, many might disagree that what they're looking for _is_ the solo experience on this route. that's also very special. one can find that any time on the divide route. its really up to the individual. GDR_ is_ a race and last i checked a race is a contest. contests are typically held between two or more people...usually for a prize (in ancient history it was for a woman, or turf or food). does the GDR have a prize? an entry fee? you betcha. Those fees are paid in multiple currencies. the urgency is to make sure each contestant doesn't give away their verve for the bike as entry fee or expect high glory for their prize...you might pick up a woman, though, if you work it right along the way.


Well said and all good points. My bet is that this race will start to build in notoriety this year. It has certainly entered circles of discussion where I haven't seen it before.

Matt, thanks again for your advice through email. Really appreciated.

Matt (Durango)


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## the pup (Feb 20, 2004)

I'm looking forward to riding this race, (I meant to say it that way) in 2007. I really enjoyed following this years race online, and it really put the hook in me. I have a heap of questions for those that have raced previously and willing to share their experiences...


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*didn't get to many miles in but i'd be happy*

any way i can...

My best advice start riding lots and do overnighters see what you can live without and get your gear as light as poss...

geek out on light wight backpacking sites...

ride ride and ride some more =)


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## bombsquad (Oct 7, 2006)

*racnks and tires*

trying to get gear together for next years assult. right now i'm wondering what tires and racks people were using for the race as I just switched to 29 I need new gear


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

An old and crusty man once spoke to me in a store while I was biking through the middle of Montana. He just shook his head at me.

"_...This time a year the bears sure are out there. This is about the time they go into a type of psy-cho-sis... they just eat everything. They hunt by scent for miles. They don't even look at what they are eating... all crazy like they are sick.... nope... not a good time to be biking with them up here..._"

I have had my dealings with some pretty big Canadian grizzly bears, and they can do nothing but make you wish you were on another planet, but that old guy really drove the fear into me on that occasion.

Fear is a strange entity in the woods of Montana, by yourself, on your bike in the middle of September.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

bombsquad said:


> trying to get gear together for next years assult. right now i'm wondering what tires and racks people were using for the race as I just switched to 29 I need new gear


You don't need a tread that is very knobby. 
I'd go with a higher volume type tire like a 2.0. Skinnier will just beat you up over time.
There are a bunch of choices out there like this. I haven't decided what I'll use yet.

Hopefully you'll be going really fast, so you won't have much gear to carry on the rack.
If your frame will accept it, I'd try to go with one that bolts to the frame stays over a seat post style.
Check out Old Man Mountain Rack.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Yep, lots of bears in Montana.
In 2004, I saw 3bears in the first 24 hours. Thats more than I'd seen in Alaska in my first 10 years.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Just fyi, in 2004 mtbr covered the race live with the help of the racers and voicemail. Here's the coverage for reference:
http://mtbr.com/gdr/

francois


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Thanks Francois.

That’s a good reference.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

04 and tire questions made me think of this.
Right after sunrise on the final day for us in NM. About 70 miles from the finish.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*Shhh, pete...*



pbasinger said:


> 04 and tire questions made me think of this.
> Right after sunrise on the final day for us in NM. About 70 miles from the finish.


i try not to even think about what is pictured above, but last year i had very good luck on WTB DNA rubber. its the diggity. Nano being their fastest. salsa tubes did nicely. i agree with pete's assessment on volume. GDR destroys hands.

WTB have a new rim out now (safety seal or something) that has a virtual tubeless clinch. it instills more confidence in a tubeless conversion now. even with kevlar beads.

If you run tubes, forget about trying 26" types on 29. there is so much vibration on tires over time you can even wear rim tape chafe leaks into a tube by the end. _*thicker is tricker*_.

also, narrower cross style rims are good enough to go for the divide route. there's very little edging out there. you'll be craving a good edge by NM. go for a tire with a continuous center rail if you can find a good one.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

mathewsen said:


> i agree with pete's assessment on volume. GDR destroys hands.


Anybody try these Ergon grips yet? I've only used mine for two rides and I think I like it. I'm thinking the real benefits will be on long rides since it really distributes the hand pressure throughout the palms.

Also, the Ergon backpacks seem cool. The load is put on your waist. And there's a pivotball on the top mount. The load seems to stay centered on your back as your shoulders move around. I haven't tried this product yet.









Someone needs to get sponsored by Ergon. It seems like a great fit. The folks at Germany are really awesome. Over here, Steve Boehmke is the PR guy.

francois


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

pbasinger said:


> Thanks Francois.
> 
> That's a good reference.


Right on man. I remember you and the gang as I as typed out what y'all left on my voicemail.

Where's Jan Kopka... the beermeister?

francois


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Ahh.. Jan
The only person I've seen fill a Camelback with beer for a race.

This is Jan and Steve stopping in Ovando... for a beer.


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

Would that be Jan "How Do You Ride So Good And Not Drink Beer" Kopka!? That line killed me!


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## KERKOVEJ (Jan 23, 2004)

francois said:


> Anybody try these Ergon grips yet? I


Yep! I love them, and will have a hard time going back to a traditional grip.



francois said:


> the Ergon backpacks seem cool. The load is put on your waist. And there's a pivotball on the top mount. The load seems to stay centered on your back as your shoulders move around. I haven't tried this product yet.


Not available yet. Some refining to do yet. Availble soon though.



francois said:


> Someone needs to get sponsored by Ergon. It seems like a great fit. The folks at Germany are really awesome.


Hang'n with the guys at Ergon next week. Big things are in store for 2007! :smilewinkgrin:


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

I switched to Ergons when I got the new ride. Really helped with some tendonitis pain I'd been having in my left thumb. I still have some pain but its been reduced drastically. I noticed at Interbike they have a lot of new styles coming. Smaller pads, integrated barends as above, new hydration pack looks cool, and flexing seatpost.


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## Krein (Jul 3, 2004)

pbasinger said:


> 04 and tire questions made me think of this.
> Right after sunrise on the final day for us in NM. About 70 miles from the finish.


Pete, that picture is absolutely priceless.

To think, he doesn't look frantic, nervous, or worried at all...!!

I better watch it or he's going to pull out pics of me flatting _on the way to_ the Grand Loop this year.


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## Krein (Jul 3, 2004)

mathewsen said:


> an every other year GDR would be in that spirit of rarity. if this was phased in for the GDR it would certainly be planned 2+ years in advance.


Not a bad idea. Gives those of us who are too wimpy to give it a full effort a (legitimate) excuse to _not_ consider riding it for a year.



mathewsen said:


> how many kids make a race? if the fields from the last three years of the GDR were combined into one event then we'd have a real, full-on race field...with _inner-hype_, let's say. it'd be a race likely to have more lead changes, more drama, more pressure on the racers and so on. these are the ingredients the GDR _might_ need to see its competitors' physical/psychological limits elevated to the next plane (if that's a goal). where one fellow/fella might have difficulty self-motivating yet shines chasing carrots, some might be good racing alone yet melt under the pressure of riders over-the-shoulder. all are "thrill of victory/agony of defeat" elements that attract us to competition. it's what GDR cyber-spectators like to read about. is it what gdr racers seek?


Can't speak for what GDR racers seek, but I agree with your comments that it is a race, and that having more people participate is not a bad thing. Camera crews/media are different than other racers that are in the same boat you're in.

I would love to follow (and maybe, if I become temporarily insane, participate) in a race with a ~large, experienced field.



mathewsen said:


> the first speed-effort on this great route may have been Stamstad's ITT, but it can be argued the best way to common-bond a field and really compare elapsed times (if the grail is "the record") is to emphasize the race against each other. an every-other-year format would condense fields/promote this dynamic. despite what some believe, its hard to make wholesale comparisons from one year's efforts to the next. and with 50% (or higher) attrition rates in the GDR, the race needs 20 starters to compare the times of 10 finishers. so far it's been demonstrated that it takes two years (or more) to accrue the interest of 20 competitors.


Yep, since years are so hard/pointless to compare, it would be great to see larger fields and have winning a particular year be more meaningful (no slight to your previous accomplishments intended).



mathewsen said:


> that said on GDR fields, many might disagree that what _they're_ looking for _is_ the solo experience on this route. that's also very special. one can find that any time on the divide route. its really up to the individual. As talent and speed are attracted to the event, race route enjoyment might be inversely proportional for some. the GDR_ is_ a race, though, and last i checked a race is a contest. contests are held between two or more people, usually for a prize (in ancient history it was for a woman, turf or food). does the GDR have a prize? an entry fee? you betcha. they're paid/awarded in varying currencies. the urgency is to make sure each contestant doesn't sacrifice their verve for the bike as entry fee or expect high glory as a prize. racers might, however, pick up a hot cowgirl (or boy) along the way if they "work it" right.


I got lost in the concept of winning women and picking up hot cowgirls (?!), but I agree completely: solo is always there for those that want it. I mostly responded due to previous email exchanges we've had where I've argued about the solo experience and such. Not sure if what you wrote is directed at me, but my comments were mostly aimed at media coverage and how it might change the experience of the GDR racer. I don't think it's a deal killer, but it is important to recognize that it does change things, that's all.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

*maybe a good tire?*

This Marathon XR could be the ticket. Pretty heavy though, but I'd take the added weight over stopping for flats all the time.

Scott and Matt,
what have you guys used?
I love the Nano Raptor, but seemed like I was patching tears in the thing everyday the last GDR.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*Whos gonna have a beer with me*

June 15 at about 11:30am in port roos.....


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

SlowerThenSnot said:


> June 15 at about 11:30am in port roos.....


I seriously hope to be there for the start, if so I'm down!


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*good luck*



SlowerThenSnot said:


> *Who's gonna have a beer with me* June 15 at about 11:30am in port roos.....


two years ago, rolling in from the canadian prologue a start-line Bud was just what the doctor prescribed but pete basinger was the only one willing to share one with me. folks are surprisingly gripped sometimes at the roll-out of this biggie. riders would do well to have fun the first day. it gets tough after that.

dave, if i were you, i'd much rather sip some of that really good colorado whiskey you distill up in denver, co. the prize bottle you bestowed upon me last year went a long way to making my NC friends happy.

maybe you can offer up another bottle (or two) as a prime for the first racer to make it into colorado. in `04 there were multiple primes for the GDR. this year's field should bring them back to the table.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*WTB Nano for me, thanks*



pbasinger said:


> Scott and Matt,
> what have you guys used?
> I love the Nano Raptor, but seemed like I was patching tears in the thing everyday the last GDR.


i never had issues with mine, pete. start with freshies, obviously.

i like the speedy look of that marathon but honestly it looks harsh (not supple) after 6 days of river rock-laden fireroads. i say choose supple sidewalled tires with a tall profile/good volume=suspension...and focus on taking clean lines. the mental exercise will help keep you awake.

i don't know this to be true for sure but what i have heard is that the no. 1 drag coefficient on tires is not at the contact patch but is the knobbies into the wind. if true, ramped, low profile knobs (such as a larsen TT features) would seem to rule. it would also suggest that the marathon pictured above would also be good for minimizing drag.

as is true of most equipment choice for this race, things often come down to, "how much do you want to suffer in the name of affecting avg speed"?

the best rule of thumb for most is always going to be not _how fast can you ride _but _what time you start each day_.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*Canada?*

While the GDR discussions play out through the year, I'll be the hated one again and bring up the 221mi Canadian Prologue to spur the debate on its inclusion in this race. As far as I know I still stand alone in my conviction about it, save one significant person.

I hung out for a bit with Divide Route ITT pioneer John Stamstad in Vegas last month and we spoke about the Canadian section. He said he would have ridden from Banff if the Alberta/BC section were complete at the time he raced in `99. He thinks evolution can be good for this event. He suggested that if race direction will see nothing of expansion then the only way to get it done is to, as a race challenger, simultaneously complete the Prologue _and_ own the record on the conti-US section. A tall order, for sure.

I tried to pull off both last year and fell short for a list of reasons. *But*, is being the fastest really enough to see the race evolve? Will rewriting the conti-US record and busting out the Canadian Section in the same effort really motivate racers that follow in subsequent years to start in Banff?

I would enjoy hearing intelligible arguments against Canada's inclusion other than: 
-The race is long enough already
-GDR was conceived as a border to border race.

If racers were concerned about length/difficulty, the wouldn't be lining up for the GDR.

As I see it, GDR is a race on a route called the Great Divide MTB Route. This route begins in Banff, AB and runs to Antelope Wells, NM. 
.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

mathewsen said:


> While the GDR discussions play out through the year, I'll be the hated one again and bring up the 221mi Canadian Prologue to spur the debate on its inclusion in this race. As far as I know I still stand alone in my conviction about it, save one significant person.
> 
> I hung out for a bit with Divide Route ITT pioneer John Stamstad in Vegas last month and we spoke about the Canadian section. He said he would have ridden from Banff if the Alberta/BC section were complete at the time he raced in `99. He thinks evolution can be good for this event. He suggested that if race direction will see nothing of expansion then the only way to get it done is to, as a race challenger, simultaneously complete the Prologue _and_ own the record on the conti-US section. A tall order, for sure.
> 
> ...


I am really temped to do it with the prolog I just not sure of taking a few more days off... I've got a month off and I'm shooting for an avg 100 miles a day.... with a few travel days and a few for un knowns.... However its sound like such a cool section of trail i think i'd need 3-3 1/2 days to get that section done.... However i'm still thinking about it! 

Hopefully the bees don't get me this year.....


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*primes*



mathewsen said:


> two years ago, rolling in from the canadian prologue a start-line Bud was just what the doctor prescribed but pete basinger was the only one willing to share one with me. folks are surprisingly gripped sometimes at the roll-out of this biggie. riders would do well to have fun the first day. it gets tough after that.
> 
> dave, if i were you, i'd much rather sip some of that really good colorado whiskey you distill up in denver, co. the prize bottle you bestowed upon me last year went a long way to making my NC friends happy.
> 
> maybe you can offer up another bottle (or two) as a prime for the first racer to make it into colorado. in `04 there were multiple primes for the GDR. this year's field should bring them back to the table.


Hummm

Mabe I can figgure somthing cool to do....hummm... Not sure anybody wants to be carrying a heavy bottle of whiskey from co to nm


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## bombsquad (Oct 7, 2006)

*good grief*

yea yea some people talk a lot. I think the canadian section of the gdr would be sweet to do. should it be included... f if I know I've never done the thing.

I'd like to do the canada section this year bf I start with all you yahoos. but if it isn't officially a part of the race I think I'd like to take my time and do it over three days. soak up some of that ol canadian atmosphere. I've never been to canada why go all the way up yonder and "race" outta there.

So yea I'm looking to get er done with this gdr event. I'd like to do the canadian section and take 3 days of it and maybe make it a more social thing prior to the start... then matt can try and "win" all the "primes" and not share with us fatties... you know I'd like to drink a 40 while pedaling through canada and try and figure out whos' livin and whos leavin.


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## KERKOVEJ (Jan 23, 2004)

francois said:


>


I just got back from meeting the guys at ERGON in Koblenz, Germany. I was able to get out on a bike for about 2.5 hours. During this time i got to use the new backpack, and the new carbon seatpost. All I can say is....MIND BLOWING!! :eekster: 

The backpack will revolutionized the fit of a pack on a cyclist. When loaded down with weight, the back pack stays off you back to keep you cool, plus the pack does not move with the rider. The pack is always centered on your back due to a joint system. which sits high on the back.

The are is also a carbon suspension seatpost in the works, which might take away the need for short travel FS bikes. More to come later.


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## DBCooper (Jul 24, 2006)

*ZZZZZ's*

This question is for any of the GDMBR Vets: Last year Rudi Nadler mentioned the difficulties he had getting quality sleep during the race. I know that from solo back country touring that sometimes the 'bumps in the night' can get in the way of sleep. Do you think that it is easier or harder to get solid rest during the race than normal touring? Also, how much sleep are you getting each day?


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*Shooting for....*



DBCooper said:


> This question is for any of the GDMBR Vets: Last year Rudi Nadler mentioned the difficulties he had getting quality sleep during the race. I know that from solo back country touring that sometimes the 'bumps in the night' can get in the way of sleep. Do you think that it is easier or harder to get solid rest during the race than normal touring? Also, how much sleep are you getting each day?


Spending 12 hrs on the bike a few hours for food water pee breaks... then try for 10 of sleep.... I used a fowm pad last year pob gonna go for a few more ocnces and cary a terma rest or a big aggie pad just to get some better sleep... Although take my advice with a grain of salt what works for me might not for you... Plan a four or five day trip and beat the sh*t out of your self and see what works...

Just my .02


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

*Oh Canada???*

Many "intelligent" arguments against adding Matt's Canadian prologue to the race have been presented in countless emails over and over and over and over to the point where I'm ready to puke. The bottom line is that those of us who officiated the Great Divide RACE, who have spent time and money creating a website, discussing rules, routes and promoting the race, have decided that it is from border to border. Period.

If Matt or anyone else wants to start in Canada or Prudhoe Bay for that matter I could care less, but the GDR will not change. Matt has managed convince a few folks that he is some kind of visionary or martyr or whatever with this Canada crap. I guess everyone needs some sort of cause to fight for. I respect you passion Matt, but can't you work on freeing Tibet or something and leave the GDR alone? Just as I don't hop on the Trans Iowa thread trying to get them to include a chunk of Minnesota in their race or send endless emails to Granny Gear attempting to alter one of their 24 hour courses, I don't think Matt has any place to continue detracting from the GDR with this incessant campaigning to fundamentally change a race that has already been established. It was an interesting idea, I admit, I kicked it around in myself, but, sorry not interested, end of discussion.

Don't get me wrong I have a ton of respect for you, but give it a freaking rest man. Rather than trying to get people all divided over this maybe you can re-focus your energy on helping us promote the GDR as it is and has been -Roosville to Antelope Wells.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*No, Canada*

Thanks for weighing in Pete. Although this discussion has been carried out privately, its good to discuss it on an open thread.



pbasinger said:


> Many "intelligent" arguments against adding Matt's Canadian prologue to the race have been presented


We've heard: "The race is long enough already" and "The race was conceived of as a border to border challenge".

Both angles are conservatively-based. My hope is merely to help deliver the full Great Divide Route experience to the GDR and encourage expansion of the race-effort envelope. To include the top trail section merely honors/observes, in-full, the route for which the race has borrowed its name. There's nothing visionary or martyr-ous about it. Any fool could look at the race, review the Divide Route description and wonder why the upper 220mi are not included. If John Stamstad had ridden the Canadian section we wouldn't even be having this discussion.



pbasinger said:


> Just as I don't hop on the Trans Iowa thread trying to get them to include a chunk of Minnesota in their race or send endless emails to Granny Gear attempting to alter one of their 24 hour courses. I don't think Matt has any place to continue detracting from the GDR with this incessant campaigning to fundamentally change a race that has already been established.


No disrespect, but I fail to see the parallel. More than any organized endurance effort to date, Stamstad rode the Divide Route in 1999 with the intention of bequeathing it to the rest of us as an open challenge for all to test skills/limits via a fairly simple set of rules. Rules that he himself has interpreted to be much more about the _style_ than the length. In this sense of _charter_, the effort was modeled as one _of and for the people_ (to wax cliche). Race leadership may come and go. In the end my hope is that it will be the fields of racers from year-to-year that steer AND care the most about what they desire in return for their effort/sacrifices. The concept of racing the Divide Route will probably endure and likely evolve, whether in our age of racing or the next generation's. IMO, to cling too tightly to the original length/difficulty of this ITT is to impose a rule on the format that wasn't necessarily intended.

On fundamentals: to unite the top 220 mi of the route does not alter the Stamstad fundamentals on which the GDR is predicated. And to argue for Canada's inclusion is not the kind of detraction or distraction that is harmful to the race. If anything it helps keep thinking fresh, promotes review. If there is ever a chance that the GDR _might_ evolve to include Canada, why not start keeping records now? Why not have the ability to compare contemporary efforts to the future while the race is still young?


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Discuss it in another thread
You’re being obnoxious.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

*As far as sleep goes&#8230;*

I think slowerthansnot has a good plan for a successful approach. Kent Peterson, who completed the GDR in good time on a ss I think got pretty regular sleep. You'd have to find his account of the race somewhere to get the details on how much exactly. I think around 22 days is very possible with a full nights rest everyday. The years I've attempted it, my sleep varies from less than a 1 hour to 7 continuous hours. I take many naps along the side of the road during the day when I just can't stay awake.
The first few days I don't get very restful sleep because like Rudi described, every little noise startles me, but after real fatigue sets in, even the lightest of sleepers could snooze with a forest fire going on around them.
For me, sleep is the biggest obstacle in the GDR. A few days into the race it is a constant struggle.


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## carlhutch (Jul 8, 2004)

out of 10 pete whats the chances you will be on the start line?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

mathewsen said:


> We've heard: "The race is long enough already" and "The race was conceived of as a border to border challenge".


Actually, Matt, you've heard a lot more reasons than that. And each of the dozen+ times they've been explained to you, you've disagreed and tried a weak verbal end-run around them, much as you've done below.

You don't have to agree. You don't have to like the race as it stands. But the race is run from Canada to Mexico, and that's how it's going to stay. Period. End of discussion.



mathewsen said:


> Any fool could look at the race, review the Divide Route description and wonder why the upper 220mi are not included.


Yep--that's just what you keep doing.



mathewsen said:


> No disrespect, but I fail to see the parallel. More than any organized endurance effort to date, Stamstad rode the Divide Route in 1999 with the intention of bequeathing it to the rest of us as an open challenge for all to test skills/limits via a fairly simple set of rules.


John had a certain idea in mind when he TT'ed the route in '99. I spoke with him about it just before he started, and countless times since then, both verbally and via email.

John's '99 TT inspired me. When I rekindled the idea in '01 I had John's basic charter in mind, but I also had an eye on the future. The original rules were written so that the playing field would be as level as possible from year to year and race to race. The rules have and will continue to evolve as needed. The starting/end point of the route will not.



mathewsen said:


> Race leadership may come and go.


I'm sure you're hoping so. Race leadership hasn't changed since the race's inception, nor is it likely to.

Matt, in every one of our discussions and emails about this, I've been as patient, polite, and direct as possible. Regardless, you continue on unabated. It has been suggested numerous times (often by people that know you a lot better than they know me) that my words fall on deaf ears since I write them with a courteous tone. It has also been suggested that I tell you to "Go ^%$# yourself" to help you to get the point.

None of that's necessary, since you're obviously a rational, logical human being.

Get the point, and get over it.

MC


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

10 well maybe 9 considering I haven’t figured out how to pay for it, but that’s just details.


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## Jay P (Dec 16, 2005)

*with so many details*

being thought of this comes to mind. I'm sure I will get to the start and when and if I make it to the end I have know idea how i will get back to Jackson Wy. Of course I can pedal but what seriosly are the simpleist of options?
Sleep!! I've experienced much sleep deprivation and it is a huge obstacle. You must wiegh so many things against themselves and be very stratigic about it if your trying to maximize riding time. 
I am excited about the border to border race.
Jay


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## jimbo (Jan 6, 2004)

I have a question. I love the long events, though I've done nothing longer yet than an mtb 100, and 175 on the road. If someone were to ride the GDMBR, reported in regularly and broke one of the records (M,F,SS), but didn't do it at the time of the race, would that count?

It seems that the idea of the GDR from the beginning, was to allow people attempting to speed ride the route the chance to do it at the same time as other people, not to limit when someone could attempt the route quickly. This is just by memory, from following the race over several years.

The other question I have is whether a record could be added to the GDR site for the entire GDMBR including Canada. Since it seems like any route can be included, why can't the record for the entire route be included? I'm not saying that the prologue should be part of the race, only that a record time could be added to the others already on the site. Many of those records were not set as part of a race anyway.

Anyway, I love reading about all these races, and living somewhat vicariously through the posts of the participants. I hope to do some myself in the future.

jimbo


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

jimbo said:


> I have a question. I love the long events, though I've done nothing longer yet than an mtb 100, and 175 on the road. If someone were to ride the GDMBR, reported in regularly and broke one of the records (M,F,SS), but didn't do it at the time of the race, would that count?
> 
> It seems that the idea of the GDR from the beginning, was to allow people attempting to speed ride the route the chance to do it at the same time as other people, not to limit when someone could attempt the route quickly. This is just by memory, from following the race over several years.
> 
> ...


Christ on a flaming stick... you have been following the race for years, yet you can't answer those questions?

I don't get it.

:skep:


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## jimbo (Jan 6, 2004)

29Colossus said:


> Christ on a flaming stick... you have been following the race for years, yet you can't answer those questions?
> 
> I don't get it.
> 
> :skep:


Ok, maybe I should clarify. It seems that both of those things should be the case (a record is a record, no matter when it occurs and there's no reason that there can't be an overall GDMBR record added to the GDR site), but looking at the posts on this site, those in charge seem to have pretty staunch ideas about the way things should be, and maybe my impression isn't correct.


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## Krein (Jul 3, 2004)

pbasinger said:


> Many "intelligent" arguments against adding Matt's Canadian prologue to the race have been presented in countless emails over and over and over and over to the point where I'm ready to puke. The bottom line is that those of us who officiated the Great Divide RACE, who have spent time and money creating a website, discussing rules, routes and promoting the race, have decided that it is from border to border. Period.


Well put, Pete.

I will add that I have been party to many email discussions, privately between Matt and I, or with some subset of other interested GDR parties. I raced in the second edition of the GDR ('05).

He has failed to convince me that the GDR should include Canada, despite his many attempts. I'm now sick of hearing about it and agree with Pete that Matt's ramblings and attitude towards the subject have begun to detract and distract from the race.

Let's move on already.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*The coin has two sides*

Not trying to get into a ping pong match here, but Scott, Mike and Pete have also failed to convince me that it *doesn't* belong in the race.

"Ramblings", to which all are entitled when it comes to forums such as these, only seem to be a distraction for those adamantly against the idea of extension. Controversy, if addressed appropriately rather than merely deemed obnoxious and squelched, is often beneficial. Who and/or what are we really dividing with this dialogue anyway? It's barely a race each year. It's certainly not chasing off competitors, sponsors or what little media coverage our endeavors garner.

In past GDR discussions, two of the three "steering committee" members above have been heard to say they regret ever having spent efforts racing this fireroad route to begin with. To me, misgivings such as these suggest that they might lack farsightedness when it comes to the future of the event.

On _Jimbo's_ question of, "Why is a record on the overall (terminus to terminus) GDMBR not acknowledged?", The short answer is that to do so would be to recognize significance of the Canadian section. That doesn't serve the interest of the GDR/Ultra Records site...a site maintained by the existing GDR record-holder, race director and ergo, primary opponent of GDR extension. You won't see mention of an "overall" there anytime soon. But that's not the point of pushing for the extension. To have the GDR field ride from Banff, experience Canadian Rockies awe, and race the route end-to-end. That's the point.


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## willapajames (Dec 18, 2005)

I've been following this discussion for a while. I've never done the race and probably never will, so I guess I'm an outsider.
I don't really see the point of adding the Canadian section. If you want to ride it, go ahead and do it as a "prologue" like you've done in the past. Why does it need to be added to the race route? Seems like a 2500-mile race is epic enough in terms of distance. There's nothing stopping anyone from riding the Canadian section before the race itself, as you've done. 
To me it sounds like you're just looking for glory, since you probably hold the record over the entire GDR route. 
Whatever the case, I'm tired of the bickering and I'm just a spectator... 
Hope to ride the route some day, including the Canadian section, but not racing it...


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

On why: CN only adds 221 mi. and a whole lot of epic scenery, tough trail, cool Canadian attitude and legal MTB riding in designated Wilderness. Access to Banff is simple, relatively cheap, and cultural extra-curriculae abound. End-to-end is more pure w/rspt to the GDMBR. The GDR as an "international race" (just as the conti-divide is international) gives it more flair, IMO.

Almost no one in the race will ride the prologue if they're not receiving "fatigue credit" for it w/rspt to the conti-US race, esp. if what they're gunning for is the record.

I care little about the records. The records are part of why folks don't want to see it change. The first year a GDR field races the whole enchilada my time overall will surely be relegated. I have only earnestly pursued the GDR record once in my three years of participation - last year. And that was really only with Stamstad's assertion in mind that the only way to extend the race is to do both *and* rewrite the conti-us record. I'm out there for a love of the route and the experience. Let's call that "morning glory".

As this race grows slowly, the record will be rewritten numerous times over. To be protective of a record would be silly and shortsighted.


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## Krein (Jul 3, 2004)

mathewsen said:


> Not trying to get into a ping pong match here, but Scott, Mike and Pete have also failed to convince me that it *doesn't* belong in the race.


No need to. It is you that is asking to change something that is existing, therefore it's up to you to make a case for it. You failed to do that.



mathewsen said:


> "Ramblings", to which all are entitled when it comes to forums such as these, only seem to be a distraction for those adamantly against the idea of extension. Controversy, if addressed appropriately rather than merely deemed obnoxious and squelched, is often beneficial. Who and/or what are we really dividing with this dialogue anyway? It's barely a race each year. It's certainly not chasing off competitors, sponsors or what little media coverage our endeavors garner.


See the post below. People (beyond Mike, Pete and I) are tired of the bickering, and it is divisive. They don't understand what the fuss is about. Neither do I.



mathewsen said:


> In past GDR discussions, two of the three "steering committee" members above have been heard to say they regret ever having spent efforts racing this fireroad route to begin with.


This is false. Zero regret here.



mathewsen said:


> To me, misgivings such as these suggest that they might lack farsightedness when it comes to the future of the event.


Irrelevant.

Matt, it's Mike's race. He's told you "no." Politely, calmly, evenly, respectfully, impatiently and rudely, but "no", nonetheless.

I can't believe you don't get it.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

Krein said:


> Matt, it's Mike's race. He's told you "no." Politely, calmly, evenly, respectfully, impatiently and rudely, but "no", nonetheless.


Mike organized the race in `04 and again in `06. It was brilliant of him to in `04 invite us all to join him in acccepting Stamstad's challenge, gun for his record.

I think to say that the GDR is _someone's race_ is to misunderstand the spirit in which the challenge was envisioned. It's the entire endurance community's race, in my opinion. And if seen in that sense, it "takes a village" to usher it onward. As a three year veteran of the GDR with two Canadian prologues under my belt I've earned citizenship in this village. Call me the village idiot if you want, but don't censor the discussion of extension. I'm qualified to lobby for it.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

mathewsen said:


> "Ramblings", to which all are entitled when it comes to forums such as these, only seem to be a distraction for those adamantly against the idea of extension. Controversy, if addressed appropriately rather than merely deemed obnoxious and squelched, is often beneficial. Who and/or what are we really dividing with this dialogue anyway? It's barely a race each year. It's certainly not chasing off competitors, sponsors or what little media coverage our endeavors garner.


Each time I read one of your ramblings I conclude that you really like to see your words in print.



> In past GDR discussions, two of the three "steering committee" members above have been heard to say they regret ever having spent efforts racing this fireroad route to begin with. To me, misgivings such as these suggest that they might lack farsightedness when it comes to the future of the event.


There are 6 "steering committee" members. And while I will not devote the time and energy to racing the GDR ever again, that has zero effect on my ability to see the short and long term issues facing this race.

Calling my opinion a misgiving is a judgment that you have no basis nor right to make. Nor do I appreciate the constant passive/aggressive yet undeniably divisive jabs that you're taking. Find a new purpose, Matt--one that actually matters to someone other than yourself, and that benefits someone other than yourself.



> On _Jimbo's_ question of, "Why is a record on the overall (terminus to terminus) GDMBR not acknowledged?", The short answer is that to do so would be to recognize significance of the Canadian section.


Wrong answer. Your GDMBR thru-ride hasn't been placed on the Ultra Records page because you've never submitted it. Point the finger at yourself for a change.



> That doesn't serve the interest of the GDR/Ultra Records site...a site maintained by the existing GDR record-holder, race director and ergo, primary opponent of GDR extension. You won't see mention of an "overall" there anytime soon.


And you claim you're not being divisive. Might as well claim to not be annoying too, but truthfully you're batting 1000 on both.

MC


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

*Compelling reason not to add Canada*

Those of us with major criminal records may find it difficult if not impossible to get through the border.
Do we really want to exclude people like this? 
Matt's proposed race is elitist!


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

pete, thanks for the good laugh. that's honestly the best reason i've heard yet. good one...and a fair point to make for our colorful sport.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

ok, so that reference to mike's conflict of interest _was_ divisive. sorry mike. not saying it lacks veracity, tho.


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## donkey (Jan 14, 2004)

Part of me wishes that Matt would take this BS off the boards and handle it via email so that this thread can get back on topic....but then again....for the sake of Mike, Scott and others whose mailboxes would then be full of this non-sense......maybe it should continue on here........what to do....what to do!

B


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

donkey said:


> Part of me wishes that Matt would take this BS off the boards and handle it via email so that this thread can get back on topic....but then again....for the sake of Mike, Scott and others whose mailboxxes would then be full of this non-sense......maybe it should continue on here........what to do....what to do!
> 
> B


Brian-

The reason that Matt has taken this public is because he's been told in no uncertain terms, via email and on the phone, _over and over and over_ that Canada will not become a part of the GDR. Once he finally got it through his skull that it wasn't happening, he switched tactics and is now trying to drum up support through discussions like this.

His determination is almost as impressive as it is annoying. Too bad it's not a cause that'll benefit anyone in the end, or even along the way.

MC


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

the idea is important donkey. the discussion is obviously disintegrating. i have to go to work now so i'll be out of your collective hair. do work to get pardons for your felonies now, though.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

mathewsen said:


> the idea is important donkey. the discussion is obviously disintegrating. i have to go to work now so i'll be out of your collective hair. do work to get pardons for your felonies now, though.


I am actually glad it was brought up here. I don't think your "idea" is important at all. The GDR is from border to border. THAT is the race. Frankly, I don't need the "awe" of Canada. I've been there. Pleany of "awe" in the current 2500 miles. The 200 miles only makes the logistics more difficult... Canada? No thanks. Add that, and many folks will simply say, "no way".

Anyone can time trial the course at any time they want. The course is what it is though. It is border to border. If someone wants to add the Canadian part, great. Go for it. No one is stopping you. No one is stopping anyone. If enough people do it, and want it, maybe 20 years from now it will be included, but not now... not next year... not the year after that.

Who am I to say that? I am one that respects Mike's and other's desires to keep the race what the race has been... To keep building stats and finishes and DNFs based on the SAME route, year in and year out. The future is wide open, but now is not the future of the GDR. Now is the present. 2007 might be a breakout year of sorts. It is right now as it is. No reason other than emotions and asthetics would justify changing what the GDR is into what it isn't.

The race is the GDR from border to border. That is ALL the race is. I am pleased that Mike and others are sticking to their guns on that. Add the Canadian section to the event itself, and you have an entirely DIFFERENT event.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

jimbo said:


> I have a question. I love the long events, though I've done nothing longer yet than an mtb 100, and 175 on the road. If someone were to ride the GDMBR, reported in regularly and broke one of the records (M,F,SS), but didn't do it at the time of the race, would that count?


Yep. From the front page of the GDR website:

_The intent of the GDR is to establish a common date and set of rules so that those wishing to challenge the route or record may compete directly with other athletes under equal circumstances. While anyone may "time-trial" the GDMBR at any time, their effort will be recognized only if they follow the rules set out here._



jimbo said:


> The other question I have is whether a record could be added to the GDR site for the entire GDMBR including Canada. Since it seems like any route can be included, why can't the record for the entire route be included? I'm not saying that the prologue should be part of the race, only that a record time could be added to the others already on the site. Many of those records were not set as part of a race anyway.


The record for the GDMBR _could_ be included. All that would have to happen is the record holder would have to send me an email with the pertinent info, as laid out on the *Ultra Race Records* page.

Cheers,

MC


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

Cooling the debate for a little while, what are your thoughts of bringing an iPod Nano on the GDR? My biggest concern is "one more thing" to bring....most especially the charger (albeit pretty small). Charging is an issue unto itself, but maybe the occassional hotel, etc? Anyone had any experience toting some tunes on the GDR?


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

I always use an MP3 player.
I recommend you get a cheapie that uses replaceable batteries, because I think it’d be a huge pain to deal with charging even under the best of circumstances. Plus, it will get pretty trashed after a few weeks on the trail.

I have a San Disc player that was like $50. There are cheaper ones out there. Get a 2 gig card or bigger and you’re all set. I'm also convinced that this is a more durable setup than the fancy Apple ones.
If you’re going to carry a digital camera, I’d try to get a setup that uses the same type of memory so its all interchangeable.


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## galleywench (May 21, 2004)

*training?*

I did a few searches and came up with little info regarding the amount and type of training some of you vets have done in preperation for the GDR. Reading about this race over the past few years has been inspirational to say the least, and the little seed planted in the back of my head seems to be growing without regard to what logic dictates. 
I am interested in finding more about training regimes in the months prior to the race to see if this is something that I can truly contemplate.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

I’m probably the last person to share their thoughts on this because Mike C and another friend of mine that has been a long time CTS customer have both told me that I do not “train” in the proper sense of the word, but because my alternative activity at the moment is writing papers for school I’m going to weigh in despite how ignorant I am on the topic of “training”.

Getting ready for the GDR or a similar multi-day event is super easy and does not take nearly the amount of time that a lot of people think. You don’t have to ride 40 hours a week or pay for some online coach in the box bs.

I see there being two parts to training for a long race. Base miles/maintaining fitness and experience.
Time on the bike for me consists of rarely more than 10 hours a weeks. Usually 2 hour rides, 5 times a week. Once a month, if I’m fortunate enough to have the time, I’ll do a longer ride 5- 8 hours. That’s it. 

The experience part is a little more work to get. Either by doing endurance races like 24 hour events or just planning a ride where you’ll be on the bike for a long period of time ( 20 hours - several days) where you can get some time dealing with stomach issues, sleep issues, bike fit, camping, saddle sore and all that stuff.
Touring, if you don’t take it too leisurely is a really good way to prepare.

I think after you do a few longer events, and get to a certain level of fitness just by riding, you’ll have a pretty good idea whether or not you’re ready for a really long race.

I am curious though what sort of time other people commit to training?


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## Jay P (Dec 16, 2005)

*training..*

that word sounds like work. I ride and have fun alot(ski, skate, run, etc.) sometimes 10-20 hours a week depending on time of year and whats coming up. This year I thought I would just race as much as I could, fatigued or not. Maybe driving all night to race a hundred then driving home to train and work to do it all over again a week later. I had a decent season considering. 7 endurance races this summer with lots of short course races,hill climbs and several camp out rides working on the whole other part of the race, gear and logistics. There is alot that has to do with your mind and heart as well with a event of this length. After racing endurance for the past 10 years with and without programs I have learned alot that only those times would allow, mistakes and benefits, so nothing goes further then experience. You must be positive and dedicated to atempt a ride of this long, you will know if you are ready or not. Just my 2 cents..Jay


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*On training and musical support*

No CTS coach can prepare one for the suffering the GDR doles out. How racers handle it might be the best determinant of success.

*Experience*: Test your gear this spring, retest it, and test it again. Then do your best to cut 25% of your cargo weight. Simulation is the best way to understand what lies ahead. It will give you miles (fitness) under GDR-specific conditions and help you grasp the _different_ nature of pain that comes from loaded race-touring. On gear, be sure to test your chosen sleeping pad while feeling the kind of full-body soreness the first week and a half of the race illicit. When you're only getting 2-3hrs/night, you don't want it to be interrupted. I've gone w/ the weight penalty of inflatable on this priority.

The GD route is not technical enough to divert one's attention from aching pain or the sounds the bike makes (creaks, rattling gear, etc.). B/c of this, i recommend tuning away the bike creaks and tightening/refining your load till its silent. In your personal life, pay your bills, make up/break up with significant others, renew spousal vows, clean the emotional slate. The race HAS to be a meditational experience. Expect to laugh, cry, wince a lot and think about pulling the plug at least once daily.

Throughout a ride on such a mental rollercoaster, music can help. Make a loooong playlist if you're going to rely heavily on it. I personally advocate a No Ipod/No GPS sans-technology philosophy. Gravel and wind music are soothing too. There's also the safety factor in Bear Country. Hear *and* be heard!

I would be curious to know if anyone has studied Ipods as ergogenic aids in endurance sports.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*This what I do....*

I ride lots porb a few hours a day even in winter... Lots and lots of base miles.... I don't really do the preak, taper stuff... I try do really kick my own butt a few times a week and go ride with those that are faster or do a fwew crazy rides in a row....

I just took a camera last year.... Porb gonna take a small radio this year casue its fun to see what you can pick up at night with the shortwave =)

I'll repeat what matt said about figguring out all the noises on your bike and gear that can drive you nuts!


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

Hahaha....here's one for everyone: last night I dreamed that I was at the start of the GDR (never been there, for ther record) at I'd forgotten my bike computer and maps!! Borderline nightmare.


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## bombsquad (Oct 7, 2006)

*solar stylie*

ok this may sound ridiculous... but oh well chastize me all you want for spelling and thought.

what about a solar charging system? There are enough cheap solar options out there (think solar light for the lawn at wallyworld for cheap and you get a handfull of them) that is seems it could be a possibility for Ipod/ lights. Yea I do kinda think having a ipod makes you a real rat bastard... but currently I sport a set of speakers on the h-bar that hooks to the pod and ride some lengthy off road miles... 10 bucks bought my ears some real relief from the headphones... and yea I turn that **** down when I see people... you deffinately don't see the wildlife as much but if you're urban oh well.

So if you could get a portable solar charging system that gives you a decent charge on the light and gave you music... would that be heaven or are there easy options and I just haven't even tried to figure it out... just dream of my sun powered extacsy toys....

I dream of getting away from this concrete jungle I live in.

canadians are wierd mmmkay


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## Ernesto (Feb 17, 2004)

to continue to kick a dead horse. I'll will ride this route some day, though I may never race it. I'd say that if your going to add (no I'm not a proponent one way or the other) a Canadian section, there is no point starting south of Muncho Lake. That would be the great divide. anything short of that I realy don't see the point.

just my 2c.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

Ernesto said:


> to continue to kick a dead horse. I'll will ride this route some day, though I may never race it. I'd say that if your going to add (no I'm not a proponent one way or the other) a Canadian section, there is no point starting south of Muncho Lake. That would be the great divide. anything short of that I realy don't see the point.
> 
> just my 2c.


Whether _beating a dead horse _or _kicking it while it's down_, the debate of extension is not related to notions of following the actual North American Great Divide. It's about racing the route itself, end-to-end, as it has been created by Adventure Cycling Association.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

bombsquad said:


> what about a solar charging system?


Kent Peterson had something rigged up for solar charging in `05. He is very helpful with all things bikey. contact him through his blog and he can prob. offer advice.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Thinking about logistics for getting to the start. Anyone have any plans yet?
I usually fly there, but since I’ll be in the lower 48 this year before the start I’m contemplating driving. Maybe renting a car to drop-off in Montana if its any cheaper than flying. Anyone one want to carpool ? I’ll be coming from CO or CA not sure yet. What kind of plans do people have for getting up to the border other than riding there? Whether I drive or fly, I’ll go to Whitefish and then get a ride to the border from there.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*Ride share*



pbasinger said:


> Thinking about logistics for getting to the start. Anyone have any plans yet?
> I usually fly there, but since I'll be in the lower 48 this year before the start I'm contemplating driving. Maybe renting a car to drop-off in Montana if its any cheaper than flying. Anyone one want to carpool ? I'll be coming from CO or CA not sure yet. What kind of plans do people have for getting up to the border other than riding there? Whether I drive or fly, I'll go to Whitefish and then get a ride to the border from there.


I've thought about flying maybe talking a buddy into driving me up there.... I'm in colorado but i'd be down with sharing the cost of a rental. I don't drive though so couldn't trade off =)

Whatever happens I'm not gonna do greyhound again!


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*Avis*

avis does one-way rentals to be relinquished at kalispell international.

i think they might be the only one-way svc. w/ a branch @ k-spell and are certainly the cheapest. trish stevenson and i pulled off a 36 hour marathon from NC in `04 and it was a simple process. their chevy cavalier is the best deal and is pretty comfortable. get the one with a/c, cd player. its worth it.

on the other end, avis has branch at el paso ~120m from A-wells. You can catch a greyhound from Deming (closest easterly town from finish on I-10) to ELP or ABQ for about 60 bones.


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## Jay P (Dec 16, 2005)

Hey Peter if coming from CO stop by Jackson WY. and pick me up, I'll certainly share expenses. Still trying to give Iditabike 100% for now, talk to ya when I'm in your neck of the woods.
Jay


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Sounds like a rental / ride share may work out. Maybe with a cheap back of the trunk bike rack or some creative strapping to the roof like they did in the old days we could get 3 people in a rental. Should get expenses way down. Then if we could co-ordinate with somebody in Whitefish or around there to drive up to the start and then drop off the rental for us we could be in business. I’ve done the Greyhound thing and I’m willing to spend some extra cash to avoid it. Checked out the prices and it doesn’t even look like that great of a deal compared to carpooling. What kind of time would it realistically take to get from CO to Kalispell? I have no concept of distances and drive times being up here.

Jay its been minus 0 and snowy up here for a while. I was up to my waist in snow on a training “ride” last night. This could be a fun year if things keep up like this.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*Google maps shows 15 hr....*

From Denver to Jackson 8 hours 528 miles.....

From Jackson to kalispell 8.5 hours 516 miles....

I'd be real pumped to share the cost.... I'm scared about spend 300 on a plane ticket but thats better then a 24hr bus ride (ickypoo)

Pete thanks for throwing this out early =)



pbasinger said:


> Sounds like a rental / ride share may work out. Maybe with a cheap back of the trunk bike rack or some creative strapping to the roof like they did in the old days we could get 3 people in a rental. Should get expenses way down. Then if we could co-ordinate with somebody in Whitefish or around there to drive up to the start and then drop off the rental for us we could be in business. I've done the Greyhound thing and I'm willing to spend some extra cash to avoid it. Checked out the prices and it doesn't even look like that great of a deal compared to carpooling. What kind of time would it realistically take to get from CO to Kalispell? I have no concept of distances and drive times being up here.
> 
> Jay its been minus 0 and snowy up here for a while. I was up to my waist in snow on a training "ride" last night. This could be a fun year if things keep up like this.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

*Rules and stuff*

People planning on racing should look over the rules and ask any questions they might have. These are very important. Inevitably there are always some questions and some grey areas that need further discussion.

Also, can we get a dialogue going about the route and any changes that we need to be aware of. I know Matt and Scott seem to be pretty up on all that stuff. I remember one of the racers reporting on a update last year that there was some new private land somewhere along the route. Anybody know about this?

Race Rules
The general idea is to race from Canada to Mexico, under only your own power, and to be self supported between towns. Once in a town, you can buy a meal, stock up on trail grub, even get a room for a shower and some quality sleep.

The overriding principal is simply to do it all yourself. All of the pedaling, pushing, bike wrenching, food buying (and eating...), water filtering, suffering, and all logistical figuring.

Do. It. Yourself.

The race clock starts at noon on 6/15/07, and ends for each racer when their front wheel crosses the International Border at Antelope Wells.

Prearranged outside support is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, assistance with navigation, delivery of supplies, lighting, or lodging.

Competitors will stock up on food and other items at stores along the route.

If you need something that you didn't bring or can't find on the route, you may have the item(s) shipped to you: 
* via a commercial delivery service (UPS, Fed-Ex, DHL, Airborne, or USPS) 
* to a commercial address (hotel, motel, restaurant, post office, bike shop).

This means that NO, you cannot have a friend deliver anything to you, and NO you cannot have anything shipped to a friend's house along the way. Commercial shipping, to a commercial address, period.

Competitors may only advance on the route via their own power.

If your bike breaks, you can continue to the next town on foot. Competitors may, in the case of an emergency, mechanical or other unforeseeable problems, be assisted by motorized transport (hitchhiking) in moving backward or off-route, but MAY NOT, under any circumstances, be transported forward on the route.

Once you've solved your mechanical issue, you must then rejoin the route exactly where you left it, and you must do this under your own power.

Again, you MAY NOT be transported forward on the route, even if you've already ridden that stretch.

This is a solo competition, but during the race it is likely that some racers may choose to travel together. This IS permitted.

HOWEVER, racers MAY NOT draft other racers and MUST maintain seperate gear.

The intent of these rules is to establish an equal and fair opportunity for all racers, and to eliminate any advantage gained by those who live near to or have friends/family along the route.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

pbasinger said:


> People planning on racing should look over the rules and ask any questions they might have. These are very important. Inevitably there are always some questions and some grey areas that need further discussion.


Pete-

Thanks for bringing this up--it's a great idea for all racers to familiarize themselves with the rules before starting. We all hope that we won't need to worry about them, but scenarios arise that we can't plan or prepare for in advance, and it's then that the rules matter most.

Also worth mentioning--I just added a few paragraphs to the rules page, prompted by recent discussions among some of the GDR faithful. These be them:

_*One last word on the rules: The original intent of this race was to ride the GDMBR as fast as possible in the simplest/purest style possible. As time has gone on people have begun looking for loopholes within the rules that'll save them time on the course.

This is human nature and all of us do it in different ways in our everyday lives. With respect to the GDR, we ask that you please consider the long term ramifications of finding and using loopholes--the race will only get 'easier' and (conversely) require more rules/regulations as time goes on.

This goes against all of the principles that the race was founded on.

People: please don't bring The Race down to your level--elevate yourself to the level of The Race. If you find yourself looking for loopholes, consider taking another year to prepare before racing. Most likely you'll go faster and enjoy it more as a result.*_

Cheers,

MC


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Well put


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*Required Reading?*

This bear story is a good one for GDR racers to take in. The Divide Route travels yards from the Wind River Range trailhead written about in the account. It's interesting that using his bike to be more imposing worked for the victim (temporarily).

http://www.jacksonholenews.com/Archives/NewsArchive/2004/040901-News.html


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*Bear seasoning?*



mathewsen said:


> This bear story is a good one for GDR racers to take in. The Divide Route travels yards from the Wind River Range trailhead written about in the account. It's interesting that using his bike to be more imposing worked for the victim (temporarily).
> 
> http://www.jacksonholenews.com/Archives/NewsArchive/2004/040901-News.html


Unfortunately the lightest option for spicing up your bear attack weighs in so much


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## Jay P (Dec 16, 2005)

I know these people personally and remember that day. I ride in this place in the summer w/ great respect and not alone. I ride in this place in the winter and I feel its got to be some of the best snow riding in the lower 48 and not a single bear. Ahhh. Ride safe smart and how ever else makes you most comfy carrying a whistle in these areas flying at speed blowing it is how I get by.


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## Singlespeedpunk (Jan 6, 2004)

mathewsen said:


> This bear story is a good one for GDR racers to take in. The Divide Route travels yards from the Wind River Range trailhead written about in the account. It's interesting that using his bike to be more imposing worked for the victim (temporarily).
> 
> http://www.jacksonholenews.com/Archives/NewsArchive/2004/040901-News.html


OK that just about put me off ever trying the GDR  I know some of the sheep and cows can be pushy but they don't try and eat you! (well, not outside north Wales anyway!)

Alex

Safe in the UK


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*Yeah, respect*



Jay P said:


> I ride in this place in the summer w/ great respect and not alone. I ride in this place in the winter and I feel its got to be some of the best snow riding in the lower 48 and not a single bear. Ahhh. Ride safe smart and how ever else makes you most comfy carrying a whistle in these areas flying at speed blowing it is how I get by.


I like to sing. Most of us are tone-deaf enough to emit a dissonance that is probably scary even to bruins. Jay, that area *is* awesome. The best of GDR-WY! You're lucky to be close by. Even the paved climb to the top of Tog. pass is teeming with wildlife, sick views and textbook conti-divide demonstration. The Brooks Lake Rd stretch off the backside was just made mandatory on the route last year. Good thing. Ahh, the Winds! Those pinnacles are amazing. I wouldn't want to overnight in there, though.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Stop scaring people. 

Were never going to get a big field if you keep that stuff up.
My motto, ignorance is bliss.


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## Krein (Jul 3, 2004)

pbasinger said:


> My motto, ignorance is bliss.


Laughing!

Pete, you're my hero.

I _really_ wish I could take a page or two from your book. Here's another good page:



pbasinger said:


> Time on the bike for me consists of rarely more than 10 hours a weeks. Usually 2 hour rides, 5 times a week. Once a month, if I'm fortunate enough to have the time, I'll do a longer ride 5- 8 hours. That's it.


Did anyone else catch this? Last I checked Pete has ridden the GDR within 20 minutes of the record time. Am I the only one that finds this absolutely amazing? ~16 days. Sight unseen on the course. 2500 miles. On no more than 10 hours a week riding.

We could all learn something from Pete's remarkable and always understated style.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*who was it that said, "fear only fear itself"?*



pbasinger said:


> Stop scaring people.
> 
> Were never going to get a big field if you keep that stuff up.
> My motto, ignorance is bliss.


Aww, there's only enough bear-fear to make it exciting in the first couple days and then the small "griz island" there in the Winds of WY on day 5. other than that, the route is good-to-go and free of the yellowstone-style crack bears...unless you talk about people's fear of the canadian section, but that's a different kind of trepidation.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*Yes, a great story*



Krein said:


> Did anyone else catch this? Last I checked Pete has ridden the GDR within 20 minutes of the record time. Am I the only one that finds this absolutely amazing? ~16 days. Sight unseen on the course. 2500 miles. On no more than 10 hours a week riding.


I second that sentiment Scott. The most dramatic element from the `04 story wasn't so much that a new record was set but that two racers, coming from relatively different backgrounds, age brackets, etc. experienced different trials throughout the journey and still ended up separated by only 20 minutes. This may never happen again in the GDR.

On Pete's regimen, it goes to support how important daily recovery (biting off exactly what you can chew) in the GDR can be. Like the grand tours in Europe, the GDR is long enough to come into it with relatively little base if one can succeed at becoming a little bit better each day until by Southern Colorado you've metamorphed into a diesel powered machine. Its a beautiful thing to feel happen to your body and part of why grand tours are some of the greatest sporting events in the world.


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## DBCooper (Jul 24, 2006)

Similarly, I think that Kent Peterson setting the Single Speed record coming from a low tech randonneur background is important to note. It appears that knowing a lot about endurance mountain biking is one thing and knowing a lot about yourself is another. There are many paths to success but only one is going to work for you. Knowing how to filter the knowledge of others so that it works for me has been a long path of trial and error. I am grateful that this forum exists not so that I can learn how to do this event right but so that I can be assured that even though my methods may not be by the same as Mike Curiak's it doesn't mean that I can't accomplish my goals.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*Amen*



DBCooper said:


> Similarly, I think that Kent Peterson setting the Single Speed record coming from a low tech randonneur background is important to note. It appears that knowing a lot about endurance mountain biking is one thing and knowing a lot about yourself is another. There are many paths to success but only one is going to work for you.


Kent is a quality dude.

David, lovely quote from your blog post on _why the GDR_

"My twelve year old self is my hero. Fearless adventurer with an ability to ignore the intellect and enjoy the moment for what it was. 25 years later I am still trying to accomplish what came natural to me then."


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## carlhutch (Jul 8, 2004)

DBCooper said:


> Similarly, I think that Kent Peterson setting the Single Speed record coming from a low tech randonneur background is important to note. It appears that knowing a lot about endurance mountain biking is one thing and knowing a lot about yourself is another. There are many paths to success but only one is going to work for you. Knowing how to filter the knowledge of others so that it works for me has been a long path of trial and error. I am grateful that this forum exists not so that I can learn how to do this event right but so that I can be assured that even though my methods may not be by the same as Mike Curiak's it doesn't mean that I can't accomplish my goals.


My undestanding of the GDR is that it is a randonneur.Kents backgrounds was ideal.Maybe ive interpreted your words wrong.In the UK we have Audax where the longer rides are just like a GDR,self supported,you have a route to follow and how you progress is up to you.Sure you have some time limits in place which the GDR doesnt have but they seem very similar.Im not taking anything away from Kent,he had a great ride.I thought the guy turned up and had a great pedigree and low tech randonneur riding was his strength.
I think its the stamsteds,mike curiaks and Peter Basingers of the world that has made the GDR seem very sexy when really its as low tech as your randonneurs.
I look forward to seeing some pics of the curtlo and meeting it on the 15th.I plan to be there.


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## DBCooper (Jul 24, 2006)

The "low tech" approach I speak of comes from his use of rigid fork, home made fenders, platform pedals and aero bars made from tree branches. Kent seemed to make decisions that worked for him. More intuition than innovation. 
As for participation, I won't be racing in 2007. My work prohibits lengthy vacations in the middle of summer. I plan on leaving my job before the 2008 race which will give me time and peace of mind. 
Living close to Montana (I'm in Spokane, WA) I was hoping to drop by Roosville for the start. I will have the Curtlo by then and wouldn't think of leaving it behind.


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## carlhutch (Jul 8, 2004)

DBCooper said:


> The "low tech" approach I speak of comes from his use of rigid fork, home made fenders, platform pedals and aero bars made from tree branches. Kent seemed to make decisions that worked for him. More intuition than innovation.
> As for participation, I won't be racing in 2007. My work prohibits lengthy vacations in the middle of summer. I plan on leaving my job before the 2008 race which will give me time and peace of mind.
> Living close to Montana (I'm in Spokane, WA) I was hoping to drop by Roosville for the start. I will have the Curtlo by then and wouldn't think of leaving it behind.


Now i understand.I have to agree.hes one of a kind.

Bring some cookies to the start line


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## Krein (Jul 3, 2004)

DBCooper said:


> Similarly, I think that Kent Peterson setting the Single Speed record coming from a low tech randonneur background is important to note.


I agree with your sentiment, but it needs to be said that _racing_ the divide in 16 days is a different beast than finishing it in 22, as Kent did. I mean no disrespect to Kent and what he accomplished, and I admire him for the style in which he did it -- I try to learn from it as well.

But the suffering increases in a non-linear way as you push faster than a ~20 day pace. Lack of sleep, lack of recovery and more night riding all conspire together. I'm sure Matt can attest to this. I know enough about the divide that doing it in 20 days doesn't really frighten me, while racing it in 16 scares the h-ll out of me.

I'm not saying riding it in 22 is easy. Far from it. The only time I finished the ride it took 38 days. We were touring and _that_ wasn't easy. But 16 is a different story altogether. IMO.


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## cliffordu (Mar 16, 2004)

*RE: Single Speeds on the Great Divide*



Krein said:


> I agree with your sentiment, but it needs to be said that _racing_ the divide in 16 days is a different beast than finishing it in 22, as Kent did. I mean no disrespect to Kent and what he accomplished, and I admire him for the style in which he did it -- I try to learn from it as well.


Yeah, Kent just rode his bike from Seattle to the start of the race and then 'finished' the course in 22 days. On what is perhaps the cheapest rigid single speed made. I wonder how many miles per day you gain by using gears and suspension. Five? Seven? None?



Krein said:


> But the suffering increases in a non-linear way as you push faster than a ~20 day pace. Lack of sleep, lack of recovery and more night riding all conspire together. I'm sure Matt can attest to this. I know enough about the divide that doing it in 20 days doesn't really frighten me, while racing it in 16 scares the h-ll out of me.


Then just for shits-n-giggles I'd like to see you line up this year on your single speed, to break his record. Its only 22 days.

Oh, yeah, and do it right after you finish the 'Peterson prologue' - the ride from Seattle to Roosville, about 530 miles.

I mean no disrespect to you or what you have accomplished.



Krein said:


> I'm not saying riding it in 22 is easy. Far from it. The only time I finished the ride it took 38 days. We were touring and _that_ wasn't easy. But 16 is a different story altogether. IMO.


Anyone who can ride the Divide has my undying respect. 16 days sounds impossible. Doing it on a rigid single speed sounds like a fine summer in hell. Even if it takes a whole 22 days.

Clifford.

In beautiful Port Townsend where the sun came out making all the cyclists smile.


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## Krein (Jul 3, 2004)

cliffordu said:


> Yeah, Kent just rode his bike from Seattle to the start of the race and then 'finished' the course in 22 days.


I'm not surprised someone took what I wrote the wrong way.

Anyway, I think Kent would be first to admit that he wasn't racing the divide in the same sense that Mike, Pete and Matt have. From his journal:

"My fellow riders are here for the race, I'm here to find out how long it's going to take me to ride this amazing route. "



cliffordu said:


> Then just for shits-n-giggles I'd like to see you line up this year on your single speed, to break his record. Its only 22 days.


No, thanks.

While we are calling people out (?!), I have a better idea. Why don't you race a few unsupported offroad events. Compare sleeping ~8 hours a night to ~4 hours (night riding instead of sleeping during those 4 hours). When you've done a couple, let me know if you think there's a difference.



cliffordu said:


> I mean no disrespect to you or what you have accomplished.


I haven't accomplished much, but like I said before, I know enough about the divide (toured once, "raced" 600 miles [with Kent]) to know there is a huge difference between 22 and 16 days, regardless of what bike you're riding.

That doesn't make Kent's trip any less amazing than it was.



cliffordu said:


> 16 days sounds impossible.


Agreed.



cliffordu said:


> Doing it on a rigid single speed sounds like a fine summer in hell. Even if it takes a whole 22 days.


And agreed. I never said otherwise.

Scott 
From Tucson where the sun rarely fails to shine, but did today.


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## cliffordu (Mar 16, 2004)

Krein said:


> I'm not surprised someone took what I wrote the wrong way.
> 
> While we are calling people out (?!), I have a better idea. Why don't you race a few unsupported offroad events. Compare sleeping ~8 hours a night to ~4 hours (night riding instead of sleeping during those 4 hours). When you've done a couple, let me know if you think there's a difference.


Calling you out was rude. My bad.

I love long distance touring but cannot seem to get out the door without a bike that weighs less than 130 lbs.

I have thought about the Divide race since I read about the first one - But I get the feeling that at 56 I might be to old to really go that far that fast for that long. I know I can cover the distance, just a whole lot slower than anybody in the race. I could very well could be the old guy not racing and way overloaded for the task at hand on the Divide this year. Say howdy when you pass.

Wait - here's a thought - Can we have a geezer category?

55 and above and I'm in.

I still want to know what you think the time penalty IS for having a rigid single speed bike rather than a fully geared one with a suspension fork over a race this long....like those mooto-x's that seem to be perfect for this kind of work....
From what I hear the 29'er wheels ALONE will give you a three day advantage....

Cliffordu


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*More then gears, beers, ect*

I think it more has to do with your mental mindset....

There was a gent with a sweet 29er moots and and he started and bailed very quick because he wasn't keeping with Matt.... He forgot to think about the fact Matt had ridin the route before and had an idea of what was coming.... He bailed not to much farther then where my bike was stolen. Its in the mind and how long you can ignore your body and embrace just seeing what God has made along the route....

I had a bad first day 2nd day even worse but the 3rd i was flying till the bike disapeared. 3rd day covered 40 miles in 2.5 hrs, 2nd 40 miles all day......

Its a matter of knowing yourself more then what bike, 26 vs.29 vs. geared, vs rigid.....

Just my .02


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*I may have to run this on my stem this year!*

Paddy had this on his blog a few weeks back..... perfect for GDR hopefuls I think!


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## Singlespeedpunk (Jan 6, 2004)

SlowerThenSnot said:


> Paddy had this on his blog a few weeks back..... perfect for GDR hopefuls I think!


I have a small stainless plate (spare headbadge blank) that I must afix to my stem soon.

On it are two words:

*CALM*
*DOWN**

That seems to cover most things that stress / discorage / annoy me. I was once told that the difference between a good mechanic and a great one was knowing when to stop and step away for a breather and re-asses the situation before you break something. I have found that long rides (esp multi-day ones) require the same sort of mind-set.

Luckily I am a great mechanic! 

Alex

* From one of MC's articles on www.63xc.com


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

>I still want to know what you think the time penalty IS for having a rigid single speed bike rather than a fully geared one with a suspension fork over a race this long....like those mooto-x's that seem to be perfect for this kind of work....<

Maybe this needs a little more thought, but my gut feeling is, all things being equal, no more than about 2 days. I think 18 days total is very doable. I started riding the rigid ss almost exclusively about a year and a half ago and the perception by non ss riders that it is so much more difficult is pretty funny because it’s not, but it’s a myth I don’t mind people perpetuating so us ssers can seem more hardcore. 
Since I’ve been getting more and more into the ss, I thought about using one on the GDR, but only for a like a second, because the route has so many long road sections where you’d be spinning out for hours at a time. With the goal being to go as fast as possible it is definitely not the best weapon, but it is hardly the disadvantage that some people may think.

As far as rigid goes, I feel like I can speak from experience here, having used a pos fork that barely moved after the first day of the trip two years in a row. It’s not a bad route to do rigid, not significantly more difficult, your hands are just trashed more in the end.


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

I have several gdr blogs/reports (Kent's, Scott/Paula, Ron Faul, MattLee, Brad Kee- let me know if I have missed any) but have a couple a questions that I cannot find answers to:

1. Whats the longest stretch where water is definitely not available? i.e how much water do people maximise their carrying capacity for? I have the ability to filter water, but it seems that there are stretches in NM where the supply is sketchy.
2. How much fat/muscle do people lose? I have heard 10-15lbs, but of what? Are most people able to eat enough to maintain muscle mass? A quick estimate gave me 10000calories 12-16hrs riding/day.
3. How easy is it to hitch from Kallispel or Whitehorse? Would it take me a day/half a day of waiting? EDIT: I supose I could ride: Google maps gave me 95/120kms from Whitefish/Kallispel.
4. Whats the easiest way of getting from the border to a bus station that can get me to Tucson/El Paso?

Cheers,
Alex


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## kentsbike (Nov 9, 2004)

*Water Etc.*



afie said:


> 1. Whats the longest stretch where water is definitely not available? i.e how much water do people maximise their carrying capacity for? I have the ability to filter water, but it seems that there are stretches in NM where the supply is sketchy.
> 2. How much fat/muscle do people lose? I have heard 10-15lbs, but of what? Are most people able to eat enough to maintain muscle mass? A quick estimate gave me 10000calories 12-16hrs riding/day.
> 3. How easy is it to hitch from Kallispel or Whitehorse? Would it take me a day/half a day of waiting? EDIT: I supose I could ride: Google maps gave me 95/120kms from Whitefish/Kallispel.
> 4. Whats the easiest way of getting from the border to a bus station that can get me to Tucson/El Paso?
> ...


1) Distance between water sources depends on the year. You may be looking at 100+ miles between water. In NM I was carrying 7 liters and my rule was I'd fill every time I saw a water source if I had a single empty bottle. I used Chlorine Dioxite tablets and no filter. Often the water sources were tiny trickle creeks or cattle stock tanks. I'd also drink as much of my water while I was filling up. That is I might stop at a tank with one empty bottle, drink another liter of my water from my existing supplies, then fill and drop tablets into the two bottles. The CD tablets take some time to work, so I'd be rotating bottles and drinking from the one that was the oldest of my water supplies.

The toughest places water-wise are the Great Divide Basin in WY, some of the high country in CO and NM. I'd skip the stop-if-one-bottle-is-empty rule if I KNEW I was headed for a town with water. Even following the rule, there were a couple of times I was down to fumes in my last bottle.

2 of my bottles were big bike water bottles, 2 were Nalgene bottles and that's what I used for the northern sections. As I worked my way south I added 3 more bottles which were just plastic Gatorade or IceTea bottles.

2) I lost 15 pounds on the trip, going from 140 lbs to 125 lbs. I don't think any of that was muscle, it was water and fat. As others have noted, I wasn't really racing, I was riding and I think I was getting close to a steady state. I've done other longish rides where I've locked into "road mode." For someone racing, like Scott, Pete, Mike or Matthew, they are definitely tearing their body down, deficit spending with an end goal in sight. As Scott noted, it's a way different thing. My pace, food, sleep were all a result of what I figured I could sustain. If my wife wasn't so darn cute, I think I would've kept going at the Mexican border. As it is, I was very tempted.

3&4) As I noted in my report, I got tons of help from all over. Put out the word, let people be part of your adventure and you'll find answers to these problems.

Some folks were speculating what the single-speed "cost" me in terms of time. I don't think it cost me much in terms of climbs and the rigid fork & lack of multiple gears didn't really cost me on descents either (I was thinking that as I bounced down a descent with Brad) but it did cost me on the flat road sections. I just couldn't spin fast enough. So the first day everybody ditched me and on some of the Great Divide Basin, the high flat stuff and the roads (like the last day in NM) I lost time. The 29er vs 26 thing maybe counts for a bit as well.

You can't know unless you do it, but now having ridden the course once, if I were going to do it again (it's not in my plans BTW) I'd plot my sleep breaks a little differently (but still going with my no-alarm clock, gut feel probably 8hours/nightish on average) But I'd stretch some days and time some things differently (hit Pie Town at a different time for example!) and I think I'd give a bigger wheeled/multi-speed a try. Something like Karate Monkey (I still like cheap bikes!). I think even an old guy like me could get things under 20 days. Speedy dudes with a scientific inclination and a greater sense of competion should be able to knock the record below where it now stands. But weather is a big deal.

And oh yeah, Scott had the turbo camping thing down better. I liked my tarptent but I easily burned 1/2 hr per day in set-up and takedown. If I was going for speed, a frameless bivy and a bag would be quicker.


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

kentsbike said:


> 1) Distance between water sources depends on the year. You may be looking at 100+ miles between water. In NM I was carrying 7 liters and my rule was I'd fill every time I saw a water source if I had a single empty bottle. I used Chlorine Dioxite tablets and no filter. Often the water sources were tiny trickle creeks or cattle stock tanks. I'd also drink as much of my water while I was filling up. That is I might stop at a tank with one empty bottle, drink another liter of my water from my existing supplies, then fill and drop tablets into the two bottles. The CD tablets take some time to work, so I'd be rotating bottles and drinking from the one that was the oldest of my water supplies.
> 
> The toughest places water-wise are the Great Divide Basin in WY, some of the high country in CO and NM. I'd skip the stop-if-one-bottle-is-empty rule if I KNEW I was headed for a town with water. Even following the rule, there were a couple of times I was down to fumes in my last bottle.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kent. I really liked your report. It was the best written and the funniest that I read. I am sorry that I cant thank you monetarily, but I am trying to save enough just to get to the start line.
I was going to email you, through your blog, about the tarptent. I was looking at getting the Contrail over a more expensive bivy. Is it the 4 stakes and guylines that take time to set up (Tarptent says under two minutes for set up)? Did you use the contrail?


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## kentsbike (Nov 9, 2004)

afie said:


> Thanks Kent. I really liked your report. It was the best written and the funniest that I read. I am sorry that I cant thank you monetarily, but I am trying to save enough just to get to the start line.
> I was going to email you, through your blog, about the tarptent. I was looking at getting the Contrail over a more expensive bivy. Is it the 4 stakes and guylines that take time to set up (Tarptent says under two minutes for set up)? Did you use the contrail?


Yeah, in theory you can do a Tarptent in a couple of minutes but the reality is I kind of futz with finding a space laying things out, getting it just so. With a frameless bivy, I can actually keep the sleeping bag stuffed in the bivy & mush the whole thing into and out of one stuff bag, super-quick. This may sound kind of funny but because the bivy is less comfy and less roomy, it feels less like camping and more like just a quick pit-stop. And I guess I like the simpler set up better. But the Tarptent really is an awesome bit of gear. But if you're really looking at going fast, every minute you and ounce you can cut is worth it.

Nobody should feel guilty about not sending me cash for the story. Enough people sent me enough for me to go on this cool adventure in the first place. Of course if somebody does pay me stuff for the stories, it just winds up getting rolled into the funds for the next adventure.


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

5. I am trying to get a better idea of the trail condition if only one percent (26 miles) is singletrack. Could you ride it on a steel cross bike? Or a cross bike with a 80/100 fork?

6. On riding temperatures: I saw Whitefish MT had a minimum daily temp of 45. How much colder does it get, during the day and the night, further into the mountains (i.e camping/riding at 11000 feet)?


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

I think Kent covered 1 through 4
I don’t do the bottle thing but carry a big camelback like bladder. Can’t remember how much it holds but it’s like 23lbs full. I’m not convinced this is better by any means, but its just another way to do it. I could always get enough water in it to make it to the next town.

I think Slowerthensnot used a cycle cross and probably will again. Personally, I think it’d be hell to run any tire smaller than a 2.0, but to each their own. I’d go with a big tire first and then suspension if you can, but rigid isn’t that bad if your accustomed to it.. Just pad those bars up nice and thick.

Yep, not much singletrack, but hour after hour of washboard or gravel will make you want to have some cush somewhere in your system.

Expect a few nights around freezing or a little below. I recall Mike saying he had a night at 26 degrees in 2003. I remember having my camelback hose freeze up some in Montana one morning.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

afie said:


> 5. I am trying to get a better idea of the trail condition if only one percent (26 miles) is singletrack. Could you ride it on a steel cross bike? Or a cross bike with a 80/100 fork?


Bike choice isn't nearly as important as tire volume. That volume is what's insulating you from road buzz and washboard. Run smaller than a 1.8 and pay for it dearly before you leave Montana. Ask Matt and Rudi (well, ask their hands and feet anyway). I don't think suspension (on either end) is nearly as important as a fast rolling yet cushy tire, run at less than 35psi. YMMV.



afie said:


> 6. On riding temperatures: I saw Whitefish MT had a minimum daily temp of 45. How much colder does it get, during the day and the night, further into the mountains (i.e camping/riding at 11000 feet)?


As Pete noted, you'll get a few cold nights. I woke up once in '03 shivering to the core with my 30 deg bag encased in a thin layer of ice from fog that had settled into the valley and then condensed on my bag as I slept. Never got _that_ bad in '04, but keep in mind that sleep deprivation throws off natural body rhythms--thermoregulation being one of the first to go. You'll sleep hot and cold at different times, and appropos of nothing that you've done recently. Be prepared for that with a warmer bag than you think you might need, and the ability to vent it if it gets too warm.

MC


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## DBCooper (Jul 24, 2006)

*Which rims Mike?*

I am having a set of 29er SS non-disc wheels built up for my HT and have chosen Phil Wood hubs but as for Rims and Spoke counts that are suitable for a 170 pound rider on the GDR I am still shopping. I have always been fascinated with your choice of Zipp but I don't think I will be going that route. I know that Mike is the Big Girl Wheel Expert but I will take advice from all corners.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

I’d like to compile a preliminary list of people that are definitely racing. Barring loss of limb or death between now and the race. Please PM me with your name, your mtbr handle, your real email, address and phone number.
I hear there is going to be a boatload of Brits showing up this year.

Somepeole are already known to me but still pm to fill in the informations holes.


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## DaddyD (Jan 26, 2006)

*A few Questions*

I have a couple questions for the veterans of the GDR, which I know I am going to get a lot of answers that start like this "It depends on the&#8230;"

1.	What has been the average miles per hour you have recorded on most days?

2.	How many hours have you spent off the bike a day (not including sleep) - things like eating, maintenance, walking etc.

3.	What is your favorite saddle for this ride?

That's all - Thanks for your experience and insight.


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

7. For the guys that have ridden at night: what lights have you used? HID/bulbs/led-headlamp/bar mount?


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## mechengsteve (Feb 5, 2007)

Seeing as I just mailed Pete B to say I plan to be on the start line in June, I thought I'd make a post on the thread to say Hi and introduce myself to the other racers on the forum.

I'm a British rider and will be flying into Calgary on the 10th June with two friends Alan Goldsmith and Bruce Dinsmore. We're planning on a leisurely sightseeing ride to Roosville from Banff over three days to arrive on the 14th, where we plan to meet another Brit and friend Matt Kemp. Hopefully a German guy, Dominik, will also meet us in Calgary or Banff for the Canadian section.

Can't be completely sure about the other guys, but I won't be contesting the course record or aiming for the win. Personally I’m thinking three weeks or thereabouts would be a good target.

Happy training

Steve Wilkinson


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

mechengsteve said:


> Can't be completely sure about the other guys, but I won't be contesting the course record or aiming for the win. Personally I'm thinking three weeks or thereabouts would be a good target.
> 
> Happy training
> 
> Steve Wilkinson


Hi Steve.

Yeah, that sounds a lot like my plan. As a first timer, the undertaking is intimidating enough without going for records. I'll be more than content with a sub-25 day finish. 

Matt


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

I'm in.


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

*I'm in for round 2*

I am officially in for a second attempt.

When I started the race last year, I said it was going to be the final journey for my Santa Cruz Superlight. Well, since I didn't finish, it's going to be rolling out yet again from the Canadian border.

Last year was definitely a learning experience for me. When I dropped, I had lost 20 pounds (and another 5 pounds from water), had a fever of 103/104 degrees, had massive headaches, my knees were in angony, and I fell of the bike crying in pain at least a dozen times (because I had to ride 40 miles to get to a phone, so I was forced to ride in unfavorable physical conditions). All said, I wasn't ready. This is my 9th year racing mountain bikes, I've done scores of centuries, and had done 3 24-hour races solo, but I was definitely not equipped for such a race. I in 2006, I started my base training for the GDR in late January and did not take it quite seriously enough. This year I started in November, just to keep my options open... I've also been doing a lot more backpacking trips just to get accustomed to irregular diets/sustained physical activity

It took my knees 3 months to recover from the divide; I haven't had any knee pain at all since mid-fall. So, I think it's safe to do the GDR this year, however, I'll be going at a more cautious pace. Finishing is my only goal.

See ya'll on the 15th (of June)!

-Kevin Montgomery


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

Good to hear, Kevin!


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

I think it should also be noted that, unlike last year, I'm going to be bringing a tent and a spare tire. I also got new shifters to avoid the dust issues that I had last year that rendered my shifters useless on multiple occassions...


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

To everyone that’s racing and has sent me their info, thanks. If you haven’t, it be nice if you could, but you can always surprise folks at the start if you want.
In a week or two I’ll get a complete list figured out for anyone that’s curious. Looks like well over 10 people at the moment which is pretty huge for a race like this.


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## fpecorp (Feb 22, 2006)

*2007 Gdr*

I'm planning to take another whack at it this year also. Kevin, hopefully I will see you at the start (if I manage to get there on time this year!). I'm going to fly out there a couple of days early just in case my flights get screwed up again.

john


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

fpecorp said:


> I'm planning to take another whack at it this year also. Kevin, hopefully I will see you at the start (if I manage to get there on time this year!). I'm going to fly out there a couple of days early just in case my flights get screwed up again.
> 
> john


Looking forward to meeting you, John see you the 15th!


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## BGR (Feb 23, 2007)

I'm in. See you guys there. 

BGR
Drunkcyclist.com


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## M.J. (Feb 23, 2004)

Steve - where are you based in the UK? - wouldnae have a clue about how to prepare for GDR in UK (not asking for any top secrets)


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## CaballoLoco (Jan 20, 2007)

Yep, me neither.


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## mechengsteve (Feb 5, 2007)

I'm not sure what you mean there, MJ? Mentally, physically, kit list? Climate, geography?

I'm based in Hampsire, but don't see how living in the UK could limit me in any way. I can only see benefits to that.

However, let me know how you think it might just in case I'm missing something.  

Cheers.


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## Singlespeedpunk (Jan 6, 2004)

mechengsteve said:


> I'm not sure what you mean there, MJ? Mentally, physically, kit list? Climate, geography?
> 
> I'm based in Hampsire, but don't see how living in the UK could limit me in any way. I can only see benefits to that.
> 
> ...


I guess there are plenty of long rides (and hills) with in a pretty short drive (by US standards) of anywhere in the UK....and the weather can be pretty bad too!

Oh, and I would like any trade secrets you have picked up :thumbsup:

Good luck in June!

Alex


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## Ross W. (Jul 3, 2006)

sizlinseagulsoup said:


> I am officially in for a second attempt.
> 
> When I started the race last year, I said it was going to be the final journey for my Santa Cruz Superlight. Well, since I didn't finish, it's going to be rolling out yet again from the Canadian border.
> 
> ...


What's up Kevin? You're the one on the orange Superlight right? Ever race at Holiday Farm anymore?

Didn't realize you did GDR last year, good luck with it this year.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Bone Journeo mine manigos or... hey

Im In, for whoever is keeping count. I was planning on doing last years but owning a bikeshop and all of the problems that come with it didnt allow me too.

So, Let me introduce myself. Hodge here. Live in Braselton GA, found out about the ongoing conversation through my bud, Joe Polk from mtbcast.com fame.

MATT! Freakin call me, I have a new cell phone(same #) and dont have your # any more....Peace!

I have been planning on doing this, since catching wind of it after it's 2nd edition. to me, this is the most difficult race a normal guy or gal can do, By normal, I mean a non sponsored, teamless non grand tour rider. There are a lot of tough races out there but this is definetly the daddy. Let's face it, guys like us dream of how we would mettle in a Tour, Vuelta or Giro, and this is probably tougher. So, Thats why Im doing it.

In terms of gear, I did go buy a stove, so thats one down. As for racks, I have been testing different ones for the last six months, I think Im gonna have to go custom.
I was originally gonna run my 26 SS Beater, then decided I would try my C'dale rush, but it has gears and thats not me.
I tried my SS IF Steel rigid, but cant bring myself to risk it's destruction, So I am going to be racing my SS full rigid Niner S.I.R. 9, I will try to lower the wieght over the next 4-5 months but Im not that picky and Im probably not gonna kick Matts ass anyway, so I dont really care.

Im gonna try and finish, if I Finish well that will be the bonus.

Admitidly, Im scared shitless. For one, I have a seriuosly stupid imagination, so yeah, I will be riding from bigfoot all night long, for two, I have never been away from my wife and kids for more than a week, so now I have to man up and deal with that. For three, in the last 20 years, I have been riding and racing for no more than 2 hours at 105 percent, so for the last 6 months, riding for 4-12 hours at 60 percent has been a real challenge.

It's really difficult for me to govern myself.

For Four, Im stressing about not having Beer readily available after each days ride.

For Five, I may have to bring instant coffee. nuff said.

So, Good to meet ya'll, hope to see everyone on the 15th.

Cheers and Beers!

Hodge 
www.addictivecycles.com

Ride what you dig, Race what you ride!


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*hodge baby*

Hodge, 
Somebody once said, The end is not as far as the start". In the case of the GDR, I think it applies. So you might can feel as tho the hard decision is made.

IMO, cuz of the time, $ investment, its more important to finish than to look cool getting there. For this reason, I recommend a shock, or if not, some very voluminous tires. Its brutal on the hands out there. This is not a race to be _rigid_ about equipment preferences that don't really apply to a Grand Tour such as this.

Leave the stove for the camping trips with the wife and kids.

Instead of instant coffee, carry your favorite organic coffee beans and chew them, yes pop them like pills throughout the day. quitting coffee is hard, not necessary, but you've got to rethink intake for the race. a cup o joe will put you on a rollercoaster ride you want to avoid. eating beans is the slow-drip, steady alternative.

PM me and we'll chat. I'll give you the goods on starting in banff.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Yo, check your inbox. I dnot know if I did the message thing right, I sent you and pbassinger a message that probably ended up in yugoslavia..at a church or something!

As for the fork, they can pry it from my cold dead hands. No way am I using a shock for anything...Im running 29X2.35 WTB's and a strong narrow rim...lots of give even at 35-38 PSI they are comfy and give awesome traction.

I will probably run a littl less in the GDR but the whole idea is not to flat if I can help it. I have a super wide bar and bars ends, and I will run tape over the foam grips...comfort is already high on the list.

Cody Yancey builds custom saddles for a super fair price. He takes your saddle and replaces the foam and leather with waaaay better stuff, Il put his number here for anyone interested. He also does custom stuff on them! I have three of his saddles and love em. He can use leather, horse leather, elk, sting ray...you name it, they look bad ass and feel great.
cody-678-283-2290

Anyhoo, whats the scoop on the "No stove"? I planned on waking up every morning, looking around and enjoying the view, then brewing a coffee and making some hot breakfast. It's a routine thing eh!

Later
HOdge


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

velomech said:


> Anyhoo, whats the scoop on the "No stove"? I planned on waking up every morning, looking around and enjoying the view, then brewing a coffee and making some hot breakfast. It's a routine thing eh!
> 
> Later
> HOdge


Google alcohol stoves I have a setup that wighs in at about 11 oz with fuel for about 8 hot meals/beverages. I think when your going for the race record you start doing crazy things like ditching hot meals and sleeping comfort . Not that I well be doing the club med of GDR time trialling 

I look forward to meeting you in roosville!

Dave Nice


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

I agree with Dave. I even ditched my tent last year. This is not a race for niceties.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*here's pic of my stove*

made from an metal bud bottle

at 7200ft well boil 24 oz of water in about 7 min and burn for about 16 minutes on 1.5 oz of fuel...

Ti pot but you can use a can to boil in a pop can as well just not as durable but lighter 

Make a windscreen out ti or brass and your set!


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

sizlinseagulsoup said:


> I agree with Dave. I even ditched my tent last year. This is not a race for niceties.


Woooooooooooooaaahhh there tiger....Im all about niceties. And if you think Im contesting this thing, maybe you'll just have to meet me before you think Im gonna podium! LOL!

In all reality, I will try and do a good time for SS. saving a little time in the a.m. by skipping my JAVA and breakfast may be a sacrifice I make but I'll have to see.

Im a mediocre at best, expert, on a bike with one gear, how seriuos can I be?

On a serious note, I am contemplating carrying a samll hammoch and sleeping Bag instead of a tent, but Im waiting for opinions on that one. I have a few months to really nail down the "For Sures"...And I have been getting some great info from the guys on this thread, so keep em coming...

cheers and beers
Hodge


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## DBCooper (Jul 24, 2006)

This is coming from left field but what about doing the GDR on a tandem. Is it possible? How fast could it be done?


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

DBCooper said:


> This is coming from left field but what about doing the GDR on a tandem. Is it possible? How fast could it be done?


Mmmmm maybe if your sadists?

Sounds like the way to make a relationship go somewhere fast..... Might not work under that self support rule


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## Jammin15 (Mar 7, 2007)

This race will gain notoriety this year. I see a good chance for a new course record to be set, a lot more attention on individual racers, plus more press coverage than before. My money's on 2007 GDR for the year of the big breakthrough.


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## skidmark (Mar 9, 2004)

DBCooper said:


> This is coming from left field but what about doing the GDR on a tandem. Is it possible? How fast could it be done?


Singlespeed tandem???


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

ok, not that this has anything to do with the last few posts, but has anyone done this on a fixed...I dont think Matt C counts because he didnt quite make it all the way. Not slammin you matty boy, just looking for the scoop.

the reason Im asking is Im already doing it SS, and I have been doing a couple of rides lately fixed, with out brakes, and it was not as hard as I thought. pretty smooth actually. Challenging for sure, but not too bad. my bike would be crap loads lighter which makes a big difference in this kind of race. Also, it's super efficient, and I can usually get away with a bigger gear than normal when climbing because of that.

My main question to those who have done this race is this, is the terrain so crazy that it would be nuts to think it? Im in north GA and we have some crazy terrain here and Im not too worried.

So, Im not trying to start any argmnts or debates, but Im looking for some good advice as to why I shouldny try it? Any taker with some experience out there???

One more reason...I have gone through as of right now, 6 racks that dont work worth a $hite with a disc brake in the rear...

Cheers and Beers!
Hodge
www.addictivecycles.com


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

Rudi n. made it about 1100 last year on fixed Mat about 580. Me only 170ish bike was nabbed.... I'll be there again on a Fixedgear shooting to set the record....

Start riding you butt off if your gonna run it fixed!

See you in June!



velomech said:


> ok, not that this has anything to do with the last few posts, but has anyone done this on a fixed...I dont think Matt C counts because he didnt quite make it all the way. Not slammin you matty boy, just looking for the scoop.
> 
> the reason Im asking is Im already doing it SS, and I have been doing a couple of rides lately fixed, with out brakes, and it was not as hard as I thought. pretty smooth actually. Challenging for sure, but not too bad. my bike would be crap loads lighter which makes a big difference in this kind of race. Also, it's super efficient, and I can usually get away with a bigger gear than normal when climbing because of that.
> 
> ...


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

On the GDR blog there are some reports from all the guys racing last year and I think Rudi comments some on his experience on the fixed gear. Good and bad experiences. Bottom line is, I think he would have finished had it not been for the fixie.
With all due respect to the fixed gear guys like slowerthansnot, I don't think it makes much sense for the GDR. I know that’s sacrilege to some, but I just think the GDR is hard enough to complete with all the wonderful bicycle technologies at our disposal. I'm all about subjecting ones body to strange forms of two wheeled torture, but the fixie for 2500 miles with hours and hours of long screaming downhills sounds like a silly, nightmarish mix to me.
I ride SS most of the time and put a few hundred miles on a fixie road and mountain bike this past summer and I think its a blast, but I'd try to finish with the benefit of being able to freewheel first.

Just my two cents and I'm sure all the fixed guys hate me now.
As far as the SS goes, I think that’s a totally legit way to go, but I say join the race, and run some gears! As soon as it's its over for me, my bikes going back to SS until the next GDR.

I agree with Jammin that this could be a real break out year for this race especially if we get a few finishers. Matt Lee mentioned to me that the motto this year should be “just finish” and I think that’s the right attitude, that’s my goal and I’m not going to intentionally put obstacles in the way of that. I need all the help I can get. This race is tough. Don’t underestimate it.


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

I remember passing two singlespeeders (Rudi and Matt) WALKING their bikes down a 35-minute downhill fireroad, while I decended effortlessly at 35 mph. They can attest, moreso than I can from talking to them, that the pain of going down these hills with a fixie is horrible on the body. At one point, Rudi told me that he said the climbing was better than the descents. I can see why...

I think for a lot of people, the goal this year is "just finish," at least, that is mine. A lot of us have gone into this race with wild expectations, and, in my case, that ended up being the demise of my race. I was very disappointed with myself at the end and completely demoralized. I am really looking forward to doing the GDR being a bit wiser.

I do agree that this year is going to be a very interesting experience ("breakout year"), both for the racers and the cycling community. Seems like a lot more people are doing it this year (Do you know the current count Pete?), which will only make the coverage more exciting, and make the race a little more "social" than last year.


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## TomP (Jan 12, 2004)

*2006 GDR Blog*



pbasinger said:


> On the GDR blog there are some reports from all the guys racing last year and I think Rudi comments some on his experience on the fixed gear...


Actually, right now the GDR Blog just says:

"The 2007 Great Divide Race will start on Friday, June 15, at noon from Port of Roosville, Montana. This page will be the place to see news and updates..."

Blogspot made some changes, and I think Mike C kind of "reset" the blog to prepare for this year's race. He hasn't officially asked me to do the blogging again for this year, but I'm hoping I'll be involved at least at the level of the '06 race.

I put last year's whole story on my own website, so anyone who wants to check it out can find it at:

http://tom-purvis.com/gdr/GreatDivideRaceUpdates.htm

FYI.


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

Hodge,
I need to come by the shop and let you listen to a couple of the comments from Matt and Rudy. I'll see if I can carve them out of the episodes from last year.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

pbasinger said:


> Bottom line is, I think he would have finished had it not been for the fixie.
> With all due respect to the fixed gear guys like slowerthansnot, I don't think it makes much sense for the GDR. I know that's sacrilege to some, but I just think the GDR is hard enough to complete with all the wonderful bicycle technologies at our disposal. I'm all about subjecting ones body to strange forms of two wheeled torture, but the fixie for 2500 miles with hours and hours of long screaming downhills sounds like a silly, nightmarish mix to me.
> This race is tough. Don't underestimate it.


Not underestimating it just trying it a different way and it may bite me in the butt or hands

This route is hard with an engine 

I'm kinna silly and nightmarish 
espaicaly after a few days without a shower

Again Pete way f***** cool what you pulled off in Ak!


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

TomP said:


> Actually, right now the GDR Blog just says:
> 
> "The 2007 Great Divide Race will start on Friday, June 15, at noon from Port of Roosville, Montana. This page will be the place to see news and updates..."
> 
> ...


Tom,
You've been following the race for a while. We enjoy your insight. If you don't work with the official GDR Blog, I would encourage you to team up with MTB-cast to offer your own take ("the purvis report") on things. Perhaps as an independent you could afford to interpret events more candidly than there's room for in the official blog. Presumably "Jav" can give you the access to the audio again?


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Ok, That 35 minute down hill section just sealed it. The farthest west I have ridden has been TN KY and AL, although I have ridden the entire Eastern seaboard almost, I have yet to encounter a 35 minute down hill. SS it is, I'll keep the fixie at the shop so customers can try it out while im gone...

Thanks for the replies, Im glad I got some input before I changed my plans. 

And yet another rack bites the dust. Im going custom.period. Maybe Ill give mtn man racks a call...

MATT, I have been tyring to put on some muscle mass, I have an idea that would be a good thing. Im a little lean for this time of year, which is funny because my form is way behind. So, silly core workouts and a little bit of lifting is the game plan. 

"Just Finish" I like it, I might get some t-shirts made with that and pass 'em out at the start!

JP, come on by, I'll we are getting more and more settled in...

Cheers and Beers!
Hodge
ww.addictivecycles.com

Hodge


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

velomech said:


> Ok, That 35 minute down hill section just sealed it. The farthest west I have ridden has been TN KY and AL, although I have ridden the entire Eastern seaboard almost, I have yet to encounter a 35 minute down hill. SS it is, I'll keep the fixie at the shop so customers can try it out while im gone...
> 
> Thanks for the replies, Im glad I got some input before I changed my plans.
> 
> ...


You may have trouble gaining fat and muscle if you are doing more than 6 hours of aerobic training a week. I read that there is 80 000kms of vertical climbing metres, so any muscle (and the fat that you will have to put on to gain the muscle ) that isnt contributing to your speed is useless. A linear increase in body mass will take a proportional increase in power needed.


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## ultrarob (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm not doing the GDR this year but seriously thinking about it for next year. My friend is doing it next year and I've been interested in it for a couple years. I just have a lot to learn after being used to having a crew. This will be my year to experiment to learn what works for unsupported events.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

afie said:


> You may have trouble gaining fat and muscle if you are doing more than 6 hours of aerobic training a week. I read that there is 80 000kms of vertical climbing metres, so any muscle (and the fat that you will have to put on to gain the muscle ) that isnt contributing to your speed is useless. A linear increase in body mass will take a proportional increase in power needed.


Im finding this to be true. My overall body fat is low, and even though Im eating a good bit more, and more healthy, im finding that it is really hard to gain weight. I still think my buddy is spot on when he suggested that I gain as much as possible, because by the end of this race I will not have much fat left and be eating into muscle protien and she-aht...so again, im back at my normal regimen which aint helping much.

To make matters worse, My niner was at the shop today and I didnt have time to go get it. SO I hopped on the shops demo rush and rode with my oldest kid(10) for two hours. Now that the idea is in my head, I cant help but think of using gears and suspension for this.

Im a die hard SSer, have been always. I really love it and thats all I ride now, built my first in 96. So, do I go w/SS or run gears on my cdale 29er?

I hate what this race is doing to my brain! for the local stuff I race my single, period. I dont take any races so seriously that I would run gears...I just dont. But now Matt Lee's words are echoing in my head. Just finish. Couple that with the amount of climbing I have to do and the speed I will need on the flats I might be leaning towards running geary. eeew. There I said it.

I think, if I put my head to it, and call in some favors, I might be able to get a cdale 29er built around 21 lbs...running a 42 up front and a 11-26 in the rear...as a 1x9.

I'll see what light stuff I have at the shop. I can call my mavic buddies and get some stuff, maybe run some ksyrium ES's with cross max disc hubs and stuff...hmmmm...i hate being wishy washy. but running a disc 29er with geasrs would be a good idea..

cheers
Hodge


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

*Maps, Route Finding, etc*

A few question to you GDR vets out there....

1. How do you organize your maps/mileage turns? Assuming you all use a map case and use the mileage callouts on the GDR Maps rather than the whole map. Do you photocopy (shrink? enlarge?) the mileage callouts and organize them in the case?

2. How much map/info do you bring? Do you bring the master map for each leg? Do you bring all the maps from the start or drop them strategically by General Delivery beforehand?

3. Route Finding. What tips might you suggest to the first timer? Are there sections in particular that you found difficult? In general is the route straight forward or is it challenging?

Thanks for your assitance.

Matt


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Dude, this is my first one. I have never used a map that I didnt buy in a gas and sip. Im hoping to get the same advice from friends who have done this before, if you have any suggestions, hit me with them.

Thanks
Hodge
www.addictivecycles.com
[email protected]
Shop 770-965-8828
cell 678-576-7400


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*Making cue sheets, taking the maps*

There are a few confusing parts so i'm told.... but didn't have any problems with the 170 miles last year.....

Yeah the maps weigh a bit but rather carry them then have to back track


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

Anyone riding with a GPS? Might be interesting to get coordinates and Googlemap your call-in locations.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*Another set of batts*

Not planing on it....



jav1231 said:


> Anyone riding with a GPS? Might be interesting to get coordinates and Googlemap your call-in locations.


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## fpecorp (Feb 22, 2006)

*maps*

Saint John,

I suggest bringing all the ACA maps from the start if you are serious about sticking to the designated route; they're pretty compact & only weigh 125g for all 6, and are waterproof. It helps to have them visible at all times to avoid mistakes, since there can be hundreds of turns per day, sometimes every few minutes. A mapholder on the bars is very useful; if you have to stop & fumble around to find your spot on the map you will waste a lot of time.

There are a few errors & ambiguities on the maps & directions ("challenges"), but if you pay close attention and keep your odometer accurate (which is essential), you should not make too many mistakes. If you try to do it with a GPS only and it fails for any reason, you are done! (Although it can certainly be helpful to have as an additional navigation tool if you load in the whole route)

john


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## paramount (Mar 6, 2007)

*Maps*

You have to have the maps or official guide book for this race.
Absolutely no question. The route is very specific, and to complete it officially you must follow the route exactly. You can get the ACA maps or get the guide book from ACA. Gas station maps will not cut it.
The route directions consist of multiple turns at tenths of the mile. You could easily get from town to town with regular maps, but it could be a million different ways. The ACA maps will generally take you on the more scenic routes and to places where you are less likely to get shot by a rancher for riding across private property.
I think the ACA is a good organization to support, so I recommend buying from them, but I suppose you could always get the book or maps from a friend and photocopy it.

A GPS is not necessary to find your way, but it could be interesting to track yourself.
Check out Scott's site for more on this http://www.topofusion.com/


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## kentsbike (Nov 9, 2004)

*Brought 'em all*



Saint John said:


> A few question to you GDR vets out there....
> 
> 1. How do you organize your maps/mileage turns? Assuming you all use a map case and use the mileage callouts on the GDR Maps rather than the whole map. Do you photocopy (shrink? enlarge?) the mileage callouts and organize them in the case?
> 
> ...


I had the full set of maps with me from the start and lugged 'em all the way to Mexico. The maps have handy stuff (like details of stores and stuff) besides the turn info. I did photocopy (same size) the cue sections and that's what I carried in a ziplock bag on my bars. The maps themselves mostly rode in my handlebar bag and I'd study em at night or when stopped at a confusing section. I could've done the general delivery/drop what I don't need, but that's not my style.

In general the maps are first rate but Alan and I got some extra climbing in on Fleecer Ridge and there was a spot about 100 miles from the end where the directions were screwy. But that's where I got to see javalinas, so it was cool.

I didn't bother with GPS and wouldn't use it if I rode it again. Scott is Mr. GPS though, and he can fill you in on all the wonderfulness of it.

I got most of my directions from a turtle who told me that he may not exist.

Kent Peterson
Issaquah WA USA


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

kentsbike said:


> I had the full set of maps with me from the start and lugged 'em all the way to Mexico. The maps have handy stuff (like details of stores and stuff) besides the turn info. I did photocopy (same size) the cue sections and that's what I carried in a ziplock bag on my bars. The maps themselves mostly rode in my handlebar bag and I'd study em at night or when stopped at a confusing section. I could've done the general delivery/drop what I don't need, but that's not my style.
> 
> In general the maps are first rate but Alan and I got some extra climbing in on Fleecer Ridge and there was a spot about 100 miles from the end where the directions were screwy. But that's where I got to see javalinas, so it was cool.
> 
> ...


Hi Kent. Thanks for the response. I emailed with Pete B and Matt L and think I've conceived a map strategy.

I wanted to tell you I read your report of the GDR and really enjoyed it. As a first timer it helps me to read your first hand account for some reason. I think I'll poach your mesh bag for drying idea. 

Matt


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## Uncle B & the ZEb CREw (Mar 27, 2007)

*First Posting*

Hi Guys

Great to be reading so much usefull stuff about the GDR and as a neophyte to the race it's brilliant to have so much sharing and support from other riders.

Steve Wilkinson posting a month or so back let you know that I'm planning on being at the start line - got my bike, time off work, booked my flights and am training hard.

Will keep working on breaking down the race in to bitesize chunks so I can digest the enormaty of the challenge.

My username relates to my two wonderfull neices Zoe and Ebonie as well as the rest of my family C for sister Caroline, R for my mum Ruth and E for sister Elizabeth 

Like Steve I hope to ride at a challenging but sustainable pace, but there is nothing easy about riding 100 miles per day, off road, into a headwind, with full gear for 25 days. I've done 3 Transalps but they are like a ride in the park compaired to the GDR.

Pete - Great result in Alaska, you too Carl.

Thanks all and keep posting stuff and I hope to join in when I'm not at work or out training or with the family.
Bruce


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## carlhutch (Jul 8, 2004)

Hi Bruce
Those poor americans have to put up with all us red coats this year.
Alaska wasnt such a great race for me but thanks for noticing.Its nice to finish such things and its not like i didnt work hard.Ive just shaken a cough after 3 weeks,the result of breathing heavy in cold air.I dont think Peter has that problem,i think he sucks the fumes out of his MSR fuel bottle for oxygen.
Another guy you may have missed is Jay Petevary.Hes at the GDR this year.Im not gonna bother with all those confusing maps.There will be loads of tyre tracks to follow 

About £500 return for the flight or did you find cheaper.Im yet to book.

I noticed Tom is gonna do the blog updates
http://greatdividerace.blogspot.com/


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## Uncle B & the ZEb CREw (Mar 27, 2007)

Hi Carl

Thanxs for reply. It was Alan Tilling that mentioned you were doing the GDR this year as I spoke to him in Jan about getting some advice and tips. Was good to see Alan finish too. Didn't make the connection about Jay.

We've all got same flights over from London to Calgary and planning to ride the Canadian Prologue to Eurika. Flying back from El Paso / Pheonix. We've paid just over £500!

Looks like this year could be the biggest start field - It would be great if one of us Brits (Red coats) finished. Our money is on you with your formidable 24 hour crudentials and Iditarod record!

No pressure as it's not that sort of race :thumbsup: 

Hope training is going well.

Bruce


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## ultrarob (Aug 16, 2006)

*GPS Batteries*

Those of you who've used GPS on the course, how do you deal with battery life. I don't actually have a GPS except the one Delorme gave me for Race Across America last year. It has to connecting to a laptop so it wouldn't work. The thing I've heard about the small GPS units is your doing good to get a day of battey life. Are there ones that are better?

Kent I've also read your GDR account and found it very interesting. I definately learned some things from it.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

I think they can last pretty long. I know the one I have will do at least 14 hours on two lithium AAs. It is possible to hit a store nearly everyday in the GDR where batteries can be found or you can just carry a pocketful for longer sections.

I carry the GPS up here in Alaska for about 2 rides a year and use it occasionally. It is not necessary in the GDR, but since some of the units are pretty small I can understand someone using one either as a little bit of added security for finding the route or because they want keep track of the route and all the mileage and elevation and all that.


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## ultrarob (Aug 16, 2006)

Pete,

I don't know if you remember me or not but we were back and forth in Keystone Canyon during the 2003 Fireweed 400. I ended up pulling away for good on Thompson Pass but my crew (my wife, 3 month old, and sister) kept seeing you when they'd stop for a few minutes. Knowing you were back there certainly kept me from backing off.


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## Uncle B & the ZEb CREw (Mar 27, 2007)

Hi Ultra Bob

I've been looking at a GPS and in my opinion the best option is the Garmin etrex Legend CX.

It will give you 32 hours on 2AA (probably more with Lithium ones). You'll pobably need two X 2GB Micro SD cards for the whole route and data.
See: http://www.garmin.com/products/etrexLegendcx/

My thoughts are to just use the maps - there are only about 2000 junctions to get right 

Cheers Bruce


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

ultrarob said:


> Pete,
> 
> I don't know if you remember me or not but we were back and forth in Keystone Canyon during the 2003 Fireweed 400. I ended up pulling away for good on Thompson Pass but my crew (my wife, 3 month old, and sister) kept seeing you when they'd stop for a few minutes. Knowing you were back there certainly kept me from backing off.


Oh yeah

I totally remember you. Was looking at your blog a few days ago, saw you were checking out mine. 
That was amazing weather that year. This year it was cold and rainy almost the whole time, but Jeff Oatly still killed everyone. I've been trying to convince him he'd have more fun doing the GDR, and save a few thousand dollars and a couple of barrels of oil, but he's really set on this RAAM thing Bleeh!


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## ultrarob (Aug 16, 2006)

I've dreamed of doing RAAM for 20 years and gave it ago last year. I was doing great until I got in a very bad wind storm in eastern Colorado and western Kansas and my pelvis rotated. I limped my way to the Mississippi and ended up dropping out. The first few days was actually easier than I had imagined. I do want to finish it sometime but it doesn't quite have the pull now that it's not such an unknown challenge. Oh and the fact I spent my savings and can't afford to do it again any time soon.

Now the GDR is what I've become interested in. I'm so out of shape right now that there's no way I could be in shape for it this year. I'm hoping I can next year but I've got to get a lot of things lined up. My job might be the biggest problem.


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## Krein (Jul 3, 2004)

Uncle B & the ZEb CREw said:


> Hi Ultra Bob
> 
> I've been looking at a GPS and in my opinion the best option is the Garmin etrex Legend CX.
> 
> ...


LegendCX is not a bad choice. FYI, you will not need more than the 64 mb SD card the unit comes with. You can fit the entire Mapsource basemap for the divide route in ~56 mb, which is what my 60CS has.

Just having those basemaps may not help you much. You'll want to get GPS data waypoints (from adventure cycling) and tracks (from http://www.topofusion.com/divide/gps.php) of the actual divide route. Beware that it will take several hours of data crunching and frustration to understand what you want, how to get it on the unit and how to use it once out there.

If you're not already GPS saavy, you may want to just stick with the maps. I used GPS in '04 (tour) and '05 (race), but that's what I do (GPS crap). I had mine set to beep and flash the screen (at night) a little before every junction...

Doesn't help one bit if your body and mind fall apart, like mine did.

Battery life should be close to 30 hours with alkaline, on any of the newer units.


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## Morlahach (Nov 8, 2005)

*Compromise idea on the Canada thing*



pbasinger said:


> Many "intelligent" arguments against adding Matt's Canadian prologue to the race have been presented in countless emails over and over and over and over to the point where I'm ready to puke. The bottom line is that those of us who officiated the Great Divide RACE, who have spent time and money creating a website, discussing rules, routes and promoting the race, have decided that it is from border to border. Period.
> 
> If Matt or anyone else wants to start in Canada or Prudhoe Bay for that matter I could care less, but the GDR will not change. Matt has managed convince a few folks that he is some kind of visionary or martyr or whatever with this Canada crap. I guess everyone needs some sort of cause to fight for. I respect you passion Matt, but can't you work on freeing Tibet or something and leave the GDR alone? Just as I don't hop on the Trans Iowa thread trying to get them to include a chunk of Minnesota in their race or send endless emails to Granny Gear attempting to alter one of their 24 hour courses, I don't think Matt has any place to continue detracting from the GDR with this incessant campaigning to fundamentally change a race that has already been established. It was an interesting idea, I admit, I kicked it around in myself, but, sorry not interested, end of discussion.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I have a ton of respect for you, but give it a freaking rest man. Rather than trying to get people all divided over this maybe you can re-focus your energy on helping us promote the GDR as it is and has been -Roosville to Antelope Wells.


I have never done the GDR and likely never will. I have no vested interest in the race including whether or not the Canadian section of the great divide is included in the race. But I have an idea that could be a compromise between the two parties.

What if Matt hosts the Canadian GDR as an extension of the current GDR, and the current hosts of the current GDR simply link to his website? They are responsible for nothing north of the border. The US start of the race is the same, the US rules are the same, everything is the same.

Matt could start the Canadian aspect of the race some reasonable time before the current race. Let's say 4 days. Interested racers show up and begin their race in Canada four days before the US start, reaching the US border before the US GDR start time. Matt records how long it takes for them to complete this stage, enters it into his website, and the folks running the US GDR link to Matt's page as an appendix. Then, the folks who compete in the US GDR, including those who did the Canadian part, all start together and race together to Mexico. The folks who did the Canadian part get no special priveledges or penalties for doing the Canadian part, it is just part of their course. And when they get to Mexico they have their cross-US time, not their Canadian time, entered onto the original US GDR page.

Finally, Matt adds the total of each racer's cross-US GDR time to their Canadian stage time and posts it on *his* website.

The end result is that the US GDR race and website is completely and utterly unchanged, save for a link to a webpage for the Canadian stage. The Canadian stage is run by and for those who care about the Canadian stage, and does not effect those who just want the US stage.

As far as I can see, everyone would get what they want. Matt would get an official Canadian stage, but would be responsible for running it. Those running the original GDR would get to continue to run their race the way they want and would only give cursory acknowledgement that a Canadian stage even existed.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

Morlahach said:


> I have never done the GDR and likely never will. I have no vested interest in the race including whether or not the Canadian section of the great divide is included in the race. But I have an idea that could be a compromise between the two parties.
> 
> What if Matt hosts the Canadian GDR as an extension of the current GDR, and the current hosts of the current GDR simply link to his website? They are responsible for nothing north of the border. The US start of the race is the same, the US rules are the same, everything is the same.
> 
> ...


i didn't plan to bring this subject up again leading into 6/15 cuz some peeps seem to get a bit swollen about it but i'll respond to morlahach's suggestion.

logistical benefits of rolling from banff aside, the GDR is a single-stage race. breaking up/treating separately canada's divide route from the US portion of the route defeats the vision of delivering the northern rockies experience to all racers within the context of the GDR. the idea has always been a mandatory start in banff, AB for all GDR racers, offering 8% additional effort and 1.5 good days of racing tactics in the incredible wilds of alberta and british columbia before the route crosses into the US at the MT border. the conviction is to own the route -- the whole route -- when we reference our feats of _covering it's terrain fastest_ or _reaching mexico first_ in a given year. AC dreamed of the canadian leg of the GDMBR b/f the US section was ever complete but for now this ambition is lost on the race by the same name. seems sort of incongruous.

opinion on canada's inclusion will probably sway as GDR fields become more international. several racers are planning to ride from banff this year already. my advice to folks doing the race in the next couple of years is to get the full GDMBR (canada-inclusive) experience now while you're in the neighborhood. it might be one's only chance to bag the future-classic start to the GDR.

FWIW, an editorial on no-frills racing: the appeal of no entry-fee/no prize$, self-support, below-the-radar endurance mountain bike racing is great. its ironic, though, that in substitute for the eschewed commercial glory present in mainstream bike racing can come an obsession with personal/course records style glory. this consciousness is fine and indeed no less noble until it's focus becomes overly historical (hysterical) in preserving/comparing conditions/rules. this sometimes leads to too rigid of approach to course design/format and loss of vision for an event's potential. seems a balance ought be struck there btwn achieving records and racing for the experience. are races for past competitors to continue to compare themselves vicariously or for current fields to test themselves against each other? some of both, i suppose, but lets not put all the decision-making power in the hands of the vicars.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

mathewsen said:


> i didn't plan to bring this subject up again leading into 6/15 cuz some peeps seem to get a bit swollen about it but i'll respond to morlahach's suggestion.
> 
> logistical benefits of rolling from banff aside, the GDR is a single-stage race. breaking up/treating separately canada's divide route from the US portion of the route defeats the vision of delivering the northern rockies experience to all racers within the context of the GDR. the idea has always been a mandatory start in banff, AB for all GDR racers, offering 8% additional effort and 1.5 good days of racing tactics in the incredible wilds of alberta and british columbia before the route crosses into the US at the MT border. the conviction is to own the route -- the whole route -- when we reference our feats of _covering it's terrain fastest_ or _reaching mexico first_ in a given year. AC dreamed of the canadian leg of the GDMBR b/f the US section was ever complete but for now this ambition is lost on the race by the same name. seems sort of incongruous.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm looking forward to starting at the boarder with fresh legs


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## Morlahach (Nov 8, 2005)

mathewsen said:


> i didn't plan to bring this subject up again leading into 6/15 cuz some peeps seem to get a bit swollen about it but i'll respond to morlahach's suggestion.
> 
> logistical benefits of rolling from banff aside, the GDR is a single-stage race. breaking up/treating separately canada's divide route from the US portion of the route defeats the vision of delivering the northern rockies experience to all racers within the context of the GDR. the idea has always been a mandatory start in banff, AB for all GDR racers, offering 8% additional effort and 1.5 good days of racing tactics in the incredible wilds of alberta and british columbia before the route crosses into the US at the MT border. the conviction is to own the route -- the whole route -- when we reference our feats of _covering it's terrain fastest_ or _reaching mexico first_ in a given year. AC dreamed of the canadian leg of the GDMBR b/f the US section was ever complete but for now this ambition is lost on the race by the same name. seems sort of incongruous.
> 
> ...


So, in other words, the other people are too rigid because they won't include Canada, you are being open to change, but don't like the idea of two stages because it has always been a single stage race. Gotcha.

Second, you want records kept so there can be continuity from year to year, but would like to throw out the records of earlier events as you go to a new format with a different length and course. Right on.

Sounds perfectly consistent to me. (cough)


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

Morlahach said:


> So, in other words, the other people are too rigid because they won't include Canada, you are being open to change, but don't like the idea of two stages because it has always been a single stage race. Gotcha.
> 
> Second, you want records kept so there can be continuity from year to year, but would like to throw out the records of earlier events as you go to a new format with a different length and course. Right on.
> 
> Sounds perfectly consistent to me. (cough)


i appreciate the suggestion of compromise. it seems like self-supported formats are always single-stage. it's continuous clock rewards timely race execution and penalizes mistakes/poor execution. it also serves to make events as simple as possible - gdr's credo. figuring out when to start folks in banff so as to regroup again at the border would probably be too complicated.

if CN is IN eventually, we will always have the luxury of unofficial comparisons between racers' lower 48 times. border crossings are well documented by the feds. its possible to always keep track of lower 48 times. a GDR upgrade would never mean disrespect to the old-course feats. i am just suggesting that it ought be one's banff-mexico time that matters most. evolving to that end does not diminish charter spirit. and in one sense, once a course is changed, former course accomplishments become canonized.


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

*GDR Logistics*

Hey there,

I stumbled across the race and I'm intrigued, specifcally by Matthew Lee photos.

So I got started ordering maps, the book, etc. Now the next big question is: How do you get (efficiently - as time is an issue) to Roosville, Montana?

Looks like the nearest airports are Kalispell, MT or Cranbrook, BC and the larger ones in Spokane, Missoula and Great Falls. There seems to be no bus line going through Roosville and no place to drop a rental car.

So the best I came up with is flying to Kalispell, MT or Cranbrook, BC on Thursday, get up early and cycle 80 miles to the starting line. It's kind of a long warm-up though.

What's everybody else planing to do or has been doing in the previous years?

Cheers,

Andreas
__
CyclingCalifornia.Com


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

CyclingCa said:


> Hey there,
> 
> I stumbled across the race and I'm intrigued, specifcally by Matthew Lee photos.
> 
> ...


EZ: Kalispell Int. Airport, shuttle from whitefish to border (i forget the shuttle price).
Calgary Int. Airport, shuttle to Banff trailhead ($40.00) plus 220mi warm-up to border.
Cranbrook is close but don't leave the 80mi to Friday morning. Closest border lodging
-is 8 miles S. in Eureka 
Not so EZ: 
Spokane Airport, Amtrak to whitefish, shuttle to the border.
Same Amtrack from Seattle.
Avis rents pricey 1-way vehicles to Kalispell Int. from certainUS airports, still
-leaving the shuttle to whitefish.

There just isn't a simple way to get to the current start line in Roosville. Post on this thread for shuttle pooling if you think whitefish is your hub. most racers come thru there.


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

I flew into Kalispell Wednesday afternoon and road up to the border on Thursday. Worked well!


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

I have some questions about the maps:
1. what facilities do ranger stations have? Water? Food? Bathrooms?
2. what facilities do post offices have? There are a few "towns" (Polaris, WY from memory) that list a post office as their only facility. Does that mean there is just a post office box on the side of the road?
3. do you have to pay for the formal campgrounds? Do most of the formal campgrounds have water/bathrooms?
4. Of all the alternate routes detailed on the maps, the only 3 allowed are the ones listed on the GDR website? 
5. For the 2nd allowed alternate route, what does "if wet weather looms" mean? I am not a meterologist, so does clouds in the sky indicate enough rain to allow the use of that route?
6. Do the restaurants along the way care if you rock up wearing skin tight clothing that could walk away by itself?.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

afie said:


> I have some questions about the maps:
> 1. what facilities do ranger stations have? Water? Food? Bathrooms?
> 2. what facilities do post offices have? There are a few "towns" (Polaris, WY from memory) that list a post office as their only facility. Does that mean there is just a post office box on the side of the road?
> 3. do you have to pay for the formal campgrounds? Do most of the formal campgrounds have water/bathrooms?
> ...


1. most of the time they have water maybe bathrooms....

2. post offices usealy do not have anything but the mail boxes.... bigger town may have a bathroom and a payphone

3. Any campground that has showers, flush toilets ect your gonna pay for.... The maps usealy say if its a improved campground or not.... Impoved means bathrooms not alot with showers though planning to crash in a motel/hotel every 3-5 days to get somewhat normal

4. Go by the GDR website for the allowed detours ect...

5. if its raining when you get to that detour i'd stick to the road. That part of the route runs though alot of washes and there is a chance of getting stuck in a flash flood

6. Depends on the place I sopose..... Most dinners/geasey spoons seem to be ok when i'm touring....


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

I never had any problem eating anywhere. Most seemed happy to have a customer/listen to some trail stories.

I noticed that most businesses on the route had some sort of idea about the route and the fact that the race was going on. This might have been helped that matt was in front of me and had stopped at many of the same places I did


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Just to add more
1 Some or most have facilities, but don't count them unless you know for sure. Things are often shut down or you arrive at weird hours after closing.
2 Usually if there is a post office there is some other lodge, store or something nearby. Polaris for example has very little, the post office is just a trailer or small house, but right around there there is a lodge with a restaurant.
3. I have never paid at the campgrounds. Never saw a ranger, though I always showed up late and left early. There are a lot of unofficial places to sleep also. I usually get water at the campgrounds and use the outhouse, maybe take a nap under a picnic table if its raining and then camp somewhere off the trail.
4.Yes. Everything else has to be followed exactly.
5. 2nd alternate is impassable when it rains because of the road surface therefore you may detour around it. If you're shooting for a fast time you will ride around it no matter what the weather is doing because it is faster. If you are more in tour mode, decide if you can cover the 120 miles or whatever it is before the next rainstorm.
6.Most of the places along the route see the occasional cyclist touring the GDMBR, so they won't be too shocked. Plus they're accustomed to stinky ranchers and hunters. 

I have some questions about the maps:
1. what facilities do ranger stations have? Water? Food? Bathrooms?
2. what facilities do post offices have? There are a few "towns" (Polaris, WY from memory) that list a post office as their only facility. Does that mean there is just a post office box on the side of the road?
3. do you have to pay for the formal campgrounds? Do most of the formal campgrounds have water/bathrooms?
4. Of all the alternate routes detailed on the maps, the only 3 allowed are the ones listed on the GDR website?
5. For the 2nd allowed alternate route, what does "if wet weather looms" mean? I am not a meterologist, so does clouds in the sky indicate enough rain to allow the use of that route?
6. Do the restaurants along the way care if you rock up wearing skin tight clothing that could walk away by itself?.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

I was hoping for a turnout the same as last years....17 people, jesus h murphy on a popsicle stick thats a lot!!!

I had a dream Floyd turned up for this and it was him and me in a boxing match that never seamed to end cuz i was losing...bad.

what seems to be a good tire choice so far, 29er of course, I found a 1.85 that wieghs 440 grams...any ideas?

Im running a cdale 29er and I have her down to 23 lbs without pedals so far...

thanks gents 
Hodge


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*going for confort*

I think i'll be using nanos or the 2.5 wtb's a little more cushyness for the long days....

1.8's are temping though


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

The general consensus seems to be that more volume is better for this ride. I wouldn’t use anything smaller than a 2.0, but I know some people swear by the benefits of a narrower tire. 
The Nano raptor is well suited, but even it is a little too light and flat prone in my opinion.
I’ve seen people use the Kenda Khan and 2.0 Marathons. Both pretty big smooth and heavy tires.
I was going to try the Marathon XR tire because I’ll take added weight for less flats except that Matt seems to think it’s too stiff and may ride too harshly which is also a consideration. 
I’m probably just going to run the Nano and hope they hold up better than last time.
I think a sub 500 g tire would not hold up very long, but you never know. Might be a good spare to keep on the bike though.


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

I've had great luck with the Nano's. I put a pair on last Sept, and after well over 1000 miles of road, sandstone, dirt and mud the tire has had ZERO flats and the tread is very much intact. It's still going strong. Seems like the ideal tire, but I'm no expert. It's also nice because it is a large air volume 2.1. Pretty cush.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Yeah, I've had mixed luck. On the GDR two years ago I started patching holes in the tire from day one and it seemed like everyday I had a new tear, but this last summer I put 2000 plus miles on a set, mostly at sub 30 psi and no problems.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

good stuff bro's
I have the moto raptors now, and wieghed each, 658 and 653 grams so, not bad, and we'll see how they fair for the next 6 weeks.

In my ever lasting search to go light BUT reliable, I just crossed "powercords" off of the list, each cable wieghs 9 grams, compared to 36 grams for a SSteel cable, so saving almost 4oz was tempting. Unfortunately after last weekends 12.5 hr shakedown they've all but crapped out.

Back to stainless it is.

IS anyone considering running a 1x9? I am pushing a 34x 11-34 on 29's. Im thinking this is fairly easy but I have never ridden over 12 hours and starting to realize that after 15 or so hours of riding it might be more comfortable with a triple, even though I hate adding more parts AND wieght...

Can someone throw out a respectable wieght for an unloaded bike...something I can gauge mine off of? SO far, geared bikes are really heavy, and have too much to brake. I dont need the lightest bike by any means but would like to at least be average for the race...Im gonna feel pretty stupid rollin up to the start with a 25 lb(unloaded of course) bike if Matty shows up with something under 21!!!

Cheers
Hodge
cell 678-576-7400
www.addictivecycles.com


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Lots of folks chiming in with gear questions and concerns, weight questions, etc...

Go with proven technology. Or anti-technology if that's what suits you. Last years is better than this years. Two years old is better still. Where to draw the line? Up to you, but saving a gram here and there is not worth walking 40 miles or waiting 24 hours+ for a shop to open. 

Might not seem like it could happen to you, and if you're lucky it might not. 

But if you're unlucky...

Have a nice walk. Or enjoy watching reruns of Hogan's Heroes in a dank two-bit motel while watching the clock and waiting for the local shop to reopen, all while hoping that they have the right replacement part.

Worth noting is that even proven methods and technology fail with some regularity out there. It's 2500 miles of bumpy gravel roads. Like sticking your bike into a paint shaker for a few weeks straight.

An example: Thin foam grips are light--really nothing lighter out there. They are also the only thing between that hard handlebar and your soft flesh. Most of the bumps on this course are too small to be filtered out by a suspension fork, so you'll feel them regardless. Adding a layer or (if you're me, three) of padding to your bars will add a few grams that allow you to still feel your fingertips before you enter Wyoming.

Another example: Low air volume tires are light and fast. If the route is dry and not freshly graveled you'll make great time through Montana on them. However, the hand numbness, wrist pain, and saddle sores that they give you will drastically slow you down in the other 4 states.

When in doubt, err on the side of conservative, use lots of blue loctite, and ditch the gram scale. It'll only confuse the issue.

Just my $.02.

Cheers,

MC


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

mikesee said:


> Lots of folks chiming in with gear questions and concerns, weight questions, etc...
> 
> Go with proven technology. Or anti-technology if that's what suits you. Last years is better than this years. Two years old is better still. Where to draw the line? Up to you, but saving a gram here and there is not worth walking 40 miles or waiting 24 hours+ for a shop to open.
> 
> ...


I genuinely laughed out loud when I read this. This is great, basic....sage advice. "Build a tank and make it comfy." Thanks, Mike.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

thanks for the wake up mc, a couple pounds aint gonna win me no race...sad thing is, I own a bike shop and I constantly recite to customers what you just laid down on me. Good form, bro.

Im putting a triple on first thing tomorrow, I did some custom supa black magic on my carbon lefty to turn the little bumps into stuff the OTHER guys can worry about...after riding rigid for the last decade the first thing I noticed was the little bumps were the same on a susp fork as they were on rigid...

So, while were on wieghts, tent and bag, any input?

Thanks again
Hodge
cell 678-576-7400
www.addictivecycles.com


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

I don't have exact measurements, but I bought the lightest gear I could. I spent thousands on gear--superlight sleeping bag, z-lite sleeping pad, 2-n-a-half pound tent, no spare tire, lightweight/small water filter, and a limited food supply (was running on a just-in-time supply system for food consumption).

Honestly, I thought my setup was STILL too heavy at the start of the race, as this isn't your traditional touring trip, and shipped home my tent and some other random items (namely, changes of clothes). Truth be told, I wish I had the tent by the end of the trip, I really should have had more food reserves in my bag, and I just got really lucky that I didn't destory a tire dozens of miles away from a shop.

This year I'm not really concerning myself with weight. For me, it was impossible to believe how remote this race gets, as I have lived in Massachusetts my entire life. Trying to picture stretches of over a hundred miles w/o a bike shop is basically impossible coming from a state where there is a shop in almost every town. Get the light gear, but only if it's functional. I'll take a bike w/ panniers that I can barely lift rather than a rocket that either breaks down or breaks me down 50 miles from the nearest town...


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## Bearbait (Jan 14, 2004)

sizlinseagulsoup said:


> For me, it was impossible to believe how remote this race gets, as I have lived in Massachusetts my entire life. Trying to picture stretches of over a hundred miles w/o a bike shop is basically impossible coming from a state where there is a shop in almost every town.
> 
> 
> > Ha haaa LOL...


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Hey Soup, what part of MA are you from, I was born in Hampden, near East longmeadow. and moved to GA when I was 8, in 77, I also lived up there in enfield and E.L, and Boston for a few years in the early to mid 90's, worked at a shop in Longmeadow as well...

Cheers
Hodge
cell 678-576-7400
www.addictivecycles.com


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

I was born in Northampton and lived in Chesterfield (halfway between Pittsfield and Northampton, in the Berkshires) up until college. I go to school in Waltham (Brandeis University), which is just a dozen miles outside of Boston. I've been here 4 years now.

I also worked at Northampton Bicycle for a few years.


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## DBCooper (Jul 24, 2006)

*lithium battery availability*

I was checking out the DiNotte LED lights for use on the GDR. They look like the bee's knees except I am worried about finding disposable lithium batteries in the small town stores along the way. Anyone have experience buying lithium batteries while on the road? From the website it appears that alkaline battieries are not worth using in these high powered LED lights.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Agreed that it sounds like a good light for the GDR, but if lithiums are necessary it could be a problem.
I have never looked for lithiums along the route, but most of the places are gas stations and small stores.
I don't think you could expect to find lithiums regularly. They could be becoming more common though since people use them a lot in the digital cameras. I remember a few years ago I could only get them at a few places in town here, but now they're at Wal Mart and other places.
I suppose you could always buy like 20 of them at a time when you did find them so you had a good stock on the bike until the next place that carries them. That's going to turn into a pricey lighting system after a few weeks.


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## Pivvay (Aug 19, 2004)

*energizer lithiums*

If you're talking about the Energizer lithium AA and AAAs, I wouldn't count on finding them in out of the way places. They're still not that common here in Denver outside of the big chain stores. I love using them for big events because they're lighter and I get a longer run time out of my GPS and LED lights with them but normally I just run alkaline AA and AAAs. They work just fine with most LED lights unless the Denottes are looking for something special from replaceable batteries which would be strange. Plus the Energizer lithiums are expensive for everyday use.


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## DBCooper (Jul 24, 2006)

This is from the DiNotte FAQ:
Q: Can I use alkaline batteries with my light?
A: Alkaline batteries will provide about 30 minutes of decent light, then the brightness will continue to slide until it is unusable. If you need to use disposable batteries take a lesson from our pro adventure racers and use lithium disposables. Lithium disposable batteries will run about 30-35% longer than an good 2300mAH rechargeable set of AA batteries.


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## trail717 (Feb 9, 2006)

*Missing Something?*



DBCooper said:


> I was checking out the DiNotte LED lights for use on the GDR. They look like the bee's knees except I am worried about finding disposable lithium batteries in the small town stores along the way. Anyone have experience buying lithium batteries while on the road? From the website it appears that alkaline battieries are not worth using in these high powered LED lights.


The DiNotte "Pro" series work fine with alkaline AA's (or at least mine seems to) Am I missing something? Where on the web site does it say not to use alkaline for DiNotte's older/original style Pro Series? I do not want to damage my light if its not ok to use alkalines.

I am sure the alkaline do not last as long lithium but as you indicate having a light that uses alkaline is key for a self supported multi day, I just orderd a second one for this reason

EDIT: Oh I just saw you new post, never mind my question


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

That thing is a 5watt LED right? Might have to go with something less powerfull. I have this 1 watt that gets 2 hours off of 2 regular AAs that works pretty good. Maybe a run 2 1 watt leds or find a 3 watt that takes 4 batteries. Last time I looked at lights there was so much stuff out there. Don't limit yourself to bike specific stuff in your search. A little scotch tape and chewing gum and you can hang anything off the h bar.


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## willapajames (Dec 18, 2005)

> A little scotch tape and chewing gum and you can hang anything off the h bar.


Rubber bands work really well too.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

i know its not all fancy but the cat eye EL410 has done me right every year. the mounting system is versatile and the AAA batteries last. i use two units and employ their pivoting bases to direct them in on each other and create one beam. they are not a great spot but they get the job done. that said, i do not ride much at night during the race if the surface is rough. maybe an hour or so up north and two or three towards the lower latitudes.

if you're on the bike by 5:30am and don't dally too much during the day, 17-18hrs/day of riding will leave one pretty competitive. certainly don't suffer through the weight penalty of a heavy light in the name of doing lots of night riding. for many reasons, it simply isn't quality riding IMO.


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## DBCooper (Jul 24, 2006)

That settles it. I have been using that same cateye as a commuter light recently. I figured I did not need more than a small LED but it is easy to get lured in by the shiny objects. Thanks for the insight. It is very cool that the veterans of this event like Mike, Pete and Matthew are so willing to help out the new kids.


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## trail717 (Feb 9, 2006)

*Gets my vote*



mathewsen said:


> i know its not all fancy but the cat eye EL410 has done me right every year. the mounting system is versatile and the AAA batteries last. i use two units and employ their pivoting bases to direct them in on each other and create one beam. they are not a great spot but they get the job done. that said, i do not ride much at night during the race if the surface is rough. maybe an hour or so up north and two or three towards the lower latitudes.
> 
> if you're on the bike by 5:30am and don't dally too much during the day, 17-18hrs/day of riding will leave one pretty competitive. certainly don't suffer through the weight penalty of a heavy light in the name of doing lots of night riding. for many reasons, it simply isn't quality riding IMO.


Hum&#8230;. I did not recognize the EL410 model but when I checked it's the same as my "Opti Cube" Cateye.

For a yr + have carried mine in my bag as my emergency light and have also been using it as a all-round camp light and also a backup light for long night rides.

Sometimes I attach it to my helmet for hands free work and also to save main light battery life on slow speed & "hike a bike-walking" sections. With it on the helmet, when pushing or carring I can aim it as needed

I can see how two would work very well for a GDR type event: light., small, versatile mount system, long battery life, "get-by" ride light, redundancy with two, camp light etc etc..

Good Luck to all in 07!:thumbsup:


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Just got my maps today....now Im really worried, there are a crap load of freakin intersections, I imagine I could maybe possibly navigate this on a normal race but after 16+ hours in the saddle I wont be able to speel my name,let alone, reason with myself at intersection 5 thousand and 1...whew, I better get my hand on some sort of focus drugs....

For those of you that have weathered this thing before, would it be out of line to ask for some aid, like if you happened to have hit and intersection that was wrong on the map or at least questionable, can someone share the info the day before the race or is that out of line to ask?

I remember reading in Kents story how the map stated that one particular intrstn had two options at a fork, but kent recalled three...

Cheers
Hodge
cell 678-576-7400
www.addictivecycles.com


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## TT (Mar 20, 2007)

*Gear list*

Hi Everyone,

First post, but been reading the forum for a while.

Could veterans of the GDR post up their gear list on the great divide website?
Kent and Brad's kit list are available on their website but it would be very helpful the list were all in one location. I have asked Mathew and he said that he will make his available soon

The question regarding kit will surely come up every year.

Thanks 
Thien

Training for 08 GDR


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*mum might be the word*



Thien said:


> Could veterans of the GDR post up their gear list on the great divide website?
> Kent and Brad's kit list are available on their website but it would be very helpful the list were all in one location. I have asked Mathew and he said that he will make his available soon.


Some veterans of these kinds of events hold their gear lists very close to their chests so this is a slightly controversial question. keeping it confidential won't make one go any faster but if competitors don't get the ultra-light concept, it will certainly slow them down.

i carry:
a sleeping bag and a bed roll
a multi tool
a spare tube
an extra pair of shorts and socks
a rainshell
a&d ointment
lights
a small first-aid kit


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

mathewsen said:


> Some veterans of these kinds of events hold their gear lists very close to their chests so this is a slightly controversial question. keeping it confidential won't make one go any faster but if competitors don't get the ultra-light concept, it will certainly slow them down.


I agree. Part of the challenge is choosing your kit. You have to calculate the risks of carrying less gear and then live with your decision. Even though I have worked out what I would like to carry, I have been doubting myself after seeing photos like this. I would love to know exactly what he is carrying, but at the same time I dont.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

afie said:


> I agree. Part of the challenge is choosing your kit. You have to calculate the risks of carrying less gear and then live with your decision. Even though I have worked out what I would like to carry, I have been doubting myself after seeing photos like this. I would love to know exactly what he is carrying, but at the same time I dont.


That pic was taken the day before I left for the start. A few things changed that night before leaving, but they were pretty minor.

And I know it's hard to believe, but on the bike or in the pack in that photo are:
gore rain jacket and pants
arm and knee warmers
warm gloves and rain gloves
extra shorts and shirt
2 days worth of food
water filter
ability to carry ~320oz of water easily and comfortably
3 lights (2 bar, 1 head) and at least 2 nights worth of batts
digi camera, 2 days worth of batts, and a spare memory card
cash money, credit card, calling card, ID
drugs (pain reliever, anti-inflam, antibiotic), basic first aid kit, chamois creme
multi tool, leatherman, tire lever, 2 tubes, full size pump, couple feet of duct tape, real patch kit, spare bolt kit, spare links of chain, spare brake pads, spare shift cables, spare cleats and bolts, chain lube and rag, sewing kit, spare spokes and nips
clear lens for night riding, orange lens for contrast
sleeping bag, sleeping pad, and bivy sack
cyclometer and all ACA maps and cue sheets
and a few critical things that I'm intentionally leaving out...

How to get it so compact and light? The devil is in the details.

Happy planning.

MC


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

mikesee said:


> That pic was taken the day before I left for the start. A few things changed that night before leaving, but they were pretty minor.
> 
> And I know it's hard to believe, but on the bike or in the pack in that photo are:
> gore rain jacket and pants
> ...


It seems I have planned for less gear than you, but it doesnt look like it if you were to see my bike. Interesting...


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

*forum virgin no longer*

Hailing from Bozeman Mt. I'll be in Port Roosville on the 15th. GT SS ,possibly some weird flip flop fixie hub. What catagory would that be? I guess it doesn't matter. Anyway I'm basing my gear selection on a shoe-string budget, and friends contributions. It's funny reading everyones logistical questions about getting to MT, I have no idea how I' m going to get back here (provided I last more than 2 days). I can't seem to find any official route?Can someone please point me in a direction for maps to purchase and an official route? Also any estimates of # of participants, I realize any # may be a shot in the dark?


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

nathan bay said:


> Hailing from Bozeman Mt. I'll be in Port Roosville on the 15th. GT SS ,possibly some weird flip flop fixie hub. What catagory would that be? I guess it doesn't matter. Anyway I'm basing my gear selection on a shoe-string budget, and friends contributions. It's funny reading everyones logistical questions about getting to MT, I have no idea how I' m going to get back here (provided I last more than 2 days). I can't seem to find any official route?Can someone please point me in a direction for maps to purchase and an official route? Also any estimates of # of participants, I realize any # may be a shot in the dark?


Info:
http://www.greatdividerace.com/

Info and official maps:
http://www.adv-cycling.org/routes/greatdivide.cfm

Entrants:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=283427

There are no categories. PM pbasinger if you are entering.


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

*thanks*

I wonder if this apprehension, nervousness, excitement, etc..is how candidates feel when they announce their entry to a race?


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Yeah, send me your info.
PM or [email protected]

Mike has a reputation for always having the slickest setup. Stripped down, but not in a stupid light way. The first year Matt did the race he had lots of stuff, but looking at pics of his bike from last year I see he has really got it down to the bare minimum.
Its best to keep it real simple, don't get too worried about gadgets and stuff, but don't go so light that you end up freezing your nuts off the first couple of days in Montana and have to pull out because you're miserable. You can always mail stuff home along the way as ir gets farther south and warmer, though it can be pretty cold at night even in NM.

I can't even think of my gear list at the moment, but I'd just say, be prepared for 30 degrees, and maybe a little colder, and have a way to carry a bunch of water.


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## bombsquad (Oct 7, 2006)

just one beer? for a guy that makes booze I'd think you might bring some hooch to share and I can buy you a beer. but have it your way

looking forward to meeing you 
J


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## bombsquad (Oct 7, 2006)

Pete, I looked at the site... its overwhelming for a sipleton like me... http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1014)-MP3_and_Video_Players.aspx

what will hold music and uses replaceable batteries?

for those reading that aren't Pete.... what do you use I'm afraid of being with myself for the whole time and the ipod I was given isn't gonna make the trip...

my funds are limited so it may be a long trip with the verbal battle that goes on in my head daily... after 15 days I might be found fighting myself without musak, ha


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*One I'm looking at*

http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=215&product=9771

Although I may not take anything for music.... but I donno....


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

If you are looking at Sandisk, all the products on this page, except for the Sansa® Express™ MP3 Player 1GB use AAA batteries: http://www.sandisk.com/Guide/Recommendations.aspx?ID=1005
Note that a 4min song in MP3 format is roughly 4Mb. Thus, a 1Gb player would be able to store 250 songs (or 16hrs worth). This may get boring if you listen to it everyday. Note also that the verbal battle will probably decrease to none after a few days.


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## Uncle B & the ZEb CREw (Mar 27, 2007)

Hi Guys
Part of my equipment tactic is to try and take things that are multi functional.

I will be taking a Nokia 5500 Sport phone that has a camera, mp3 player (with 2gb card), GPS location function - ironically I'll probably not get very good reception along the GDR so use as a phone maybe limited.

For battery life I'll probably take a could of spare rechargeable lithuim batteries for the phone. These weight about 1oz.

I'm also testing out a small (180gram 6.5oz) solar panel charger which can store and recharge my phone batteries after a full day in the sun. 
see www.solartechnology.co.uk and look for Freeloader.

Happy testing

P.S. My expectations and excitement are rising as only 8 weeks away now! Hhowever, so is my fear and resect for this challenge.


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## TT (Mar 20, 2007)

*Laundry*

How did you guys solve the laundry issue especially when you are carrying only one spare pair of shorts.

Thien


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

Thien said:


> How did you guys solve the laundry issue especially when you are carrying only one spare pair of shorts.
> 
> Thien


Have you ever heard of the backpacker's shower 

Seriously, A big pouring on Gold bond medicated powder directly on your skins and shorts twice a day, and you will be alright. I swore by it.

ALSO, if you get a hotel ever few days, you can wash your clothes by hand (did this) and, sometimes a hotel has a Laundromat onsite or nearby (Lima, MT, had one, for example)


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Phone might be a problem

There might be some questions as to the legality of bringing a cell phone.
I guess just about anyone has access to getting a cell phone, so you’re not really at an advantage there, but by carrying a cell phone you potentially have a huge added safety net which the previous record holders did not have the benefit of. I’m not really sure if it is or should be against the rules of the race, but it is certainly against the spirit of it. As you said though, it probably will not work most of the time, but I think its a question worth raising. 


Laundry? Extra pair of shorts? Silliness!

When I stop at a hotel I get in the shower with all my clothes on and sud every thing up, strip, rinse, then wash myself.

There are plenty of laundromats along the way. Good for drying out wet sleeping bags.


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## Pivvay (Aug 19, 2004)

pbasinger said:


> There might be some questions as to the legality of bringing a cell phone.
> QUOTE]
> 
> What?


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

pbasinger said:


> Phone might be a problem
> 
> There might be some questions as to the legality of bringing a cell phone.
> I guess just about anyone has access to getting a cell phone, so you're not really at an advantage there, but by carrying a cell phone you potentially have a huge added safety net which the previous record holders did not have the benefit of. I'm not really sure if it is or should be against the rules of the race, but it is certainly against the spirit of it. As you said though, it probably will not work most of the time, but I think its a question worth raising.
> ...


Then I guess calling cards should be off limits as well.... then I woulda been stuck in MT last year.... Took a cell phone last year didn't have service at all.... Cell also has benny of calling in to note your location for web followers.... I don't see the cell on mikes rules but if no phones i' won't take it...... Seems Like a good just in case.....:skep:

Maybe no mp3 players, hi tech led lights..... shoot maybe we just say nothing allowed that isn't circa 1890... no disk brakes, no gears, no sus, ect....


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

I agree with Dave (SlowerThanSnot), if we ban cell phones, we have to do a retro race, and that is just foolish.

I used a cell phone last year, and I only got reception occassionally. I tried to call in once, only to have my message so garbled that Tom P. could not understand it. I'd stick to using the 800 number at payphones, but bring the phone anyways. It's useful at the airport for getting home, et cetera.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

The intent of the rules is to make things as fair as possible.


Obviously, things will never be entirely equal, as we all come from different situations with different gear setups and some with more money to spend than others etc,
but,
for example, Say 2 racers were to leave Atlantic City Wyoming to embark on a pretty hot, somewhat remote, waterless section of trail. Both are tired and unsure if they'll make it to Rawlings. Thunderstorms look eminent. The person with the cell phone has a serious advantage because that person knows even if the sh!t goes down and they have to be rescued they can just call for help. The person without the phone doesn't have this safety net.
Of course, if you were actually to use it for rescue or arranging lodging, supplies or whatever, you'd be disqualified. That is, at least my understanding of the rules, but mikesee would have to weigh in here.

If it's decided that it is OK under the rules, that fine as far as I'm concerned, but i'm looking for an adventure and once that cell phone gets thrown in your pack you're in an entirely different event IMO.

Phone cards do not give you an advantage in regards to your ability to finish the race, or be rescued. They only do you good once you have reached a area with people and supplies anyway.


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

SlowerThenSnot said:


> .. shoot maybe we just say nothing allowed that isn't circa 1890... no disk brakes, no gears, no sus, ect....


What about circa 1985...


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

pbasinger said:


> If it's decided that it is OK under the rules, that fine as far as I'm concerned, but i'm looking for an adventure and once that cell phone gets thrown in your pack you're in an entirely different event IMO.


If I had my way, all my competitors would carry the added weight, pre-occupation, false confidence and pacification of cell phone/mp3/GPS/blender gadgetry.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

mathewsen said:


> If I had my way, all my competitors would carry the added weight, pre-occupation, false confidence and pacification of cell phone/mp3/GPS/blender gadgetry.


I hear ya! 
Question is, does it give an unfair advantage or violate the self-support nature of the race? Can you call a taxi when you break down on the road? If you're in need of food and going to show up after closing at Pie Town can you call ahead to get them to tell them you'll be 15 minutes late?
Call to make hotel reservations on the trail or check the weather forecast when you're going to be out on the trial for awhile?

I don't know.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Ok, if I can wiegh in on this...Assistance is assistance, period. whether you get it from a bike shop or from a cell phone, it's assistance. As long as it's not preplanned I dont see the problem with it. I feel safer knowing that my competitors wont die in the outback if they break a leg because the cell phone will/may help them.

Also, I just talked with Landis, and NO, he will not be racing the GDR.

In fact this is kinda how the conversation went:

me- Yes or no, are you doing the GDR?

Landis-What? Whats that?

Me-Sweet! Thats all I needed to hear!

LAndis-Whats the GDr?

Me- You just made my night!

(then I explained the race to him and he said, "In Fact, Let me just say now taht I will never do that, thats crazy!"

So, to my fellow registrants of this baddest mofo of a race, rest assured, we wont be racing Floyd. (Sweet!)

Later
Hodge
cell 678-576-7400
www.addictivecycles.com


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

*Phones*

what if on june 15th at 11:30 we dig a hole, put our cell phones in it and take turns urinating and defecating on them ?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

mathewsen said:


> If I had my way, all my competitors would carry the added weight, pre-occupation, false confidence and pacification of cell phone/mp3/GPS/blender gadgetry.


Hey!

Get outta my head and STOP stealing my quotes!

MC

P.S. Blender?!


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## Uncle B & the ZEb CREw (Mar 27, 2007)

Wow! Seemed to have stured up some debate on "outside pre planned assistance" with my cell phone - we call them mobiles in Europe 

As I say mine will probably not recieve a signal as this is provided by a french company and it only takes me 5minutes riding on my local trails and I'm out of recpetion!!

For 30 years playing in the outdoors I've always been told, and told, that you should take safety gear and in todays world that means a mobile phone. I guess if I have to use it in an emergency - pending a signal it will probably mean that something has happend that will force me out of the race. Also I don't fancy dying out there.

I'll be mainly using it as a camera, MP3 player

Can I ask for a ruling on outside pre planned assitance - is it allowed?

If it's not then GPS sould not be allowed as this could be deemed as outside assitance from the satalite systems orbiting the earth!! Would the organisers then remove those who have compelted the event by using GPS from the record?

Also if you really want to get ethical about this matter then you should only be allowed to ride the race once and ride it on sight, as this gives veteran riders a great advantage. Also should should you be allowed to pre ride any of the route prior to the race as this is pre planned assitance?? I've also heard reports that riders in the past have stopped vehicles on the route and asked for food, water etc aka outside assistance. Is this allowed and how are you going to police it?

Anyhow I'll be there and guys, be very lucky to finish and won't be settign any records. 

Look forward to more forum traffic on this one!

Cheers Bruce


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

Uncle B & the ZEb CREw said:


> Wow! Seemed to have stured up some debate on "outside pre planned assistance" with my cell phone - we call them mobiles in Europe
> 
> As I say mine will probably not recieve a signal as this is provided by a french company and it only takes me 5minutes riding on my local trails and I'm out of recpetion!!
> 
> ...


I think the GDR website is very clear about outside assistance and all the rules.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Saint John said:


> I think the GDR website is very clear about outside assistance and all the rules.


word.


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

I like the way you think...and it frightens me!


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

velomech said:


> Ok, if I can wiegh in on this...Assistance is assistance, period. whether you get it from a bike shop or from a cell phone, it's assistance. As long as it's not preplanned I dont see the problem with it. I feel safer knowing that my competitors wont die in the outback if they break a leg because the cell phone will/may help them.
> 
> Also, I just talked with Landis, and NO, he will not be racing the GDR.
> 
> ...


Hummmm still doesn't answer who the unkown person is? Would have been fun to ride with floyd for a bit though....


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Cant help you there bro, all I know is Floyd aint the one...lets just hopeit isnt Tinker or anyone else of his caliber, and that includes mikesee and PeteB....one can hope!

Later
Hodge


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

jav1231 said:


> I like the way you think...and it frightens me!


Yeah, I'm with Nathan too.


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

Hills to climb

I was wondering was the grades of the steeper hill along the route are and so I did some analysis. Many long climbs, but nothing long AND steep. Here are my findings:

http://home.pacbell.net/hillmann/GreatDivide/

Hope this is helpful,

Andreas


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

CyclingCa said:


> Hills to climb
> 
> I was wondering was the grades of the steeper hill along the route are and so I did some analysis. Many long climbs, but nothing long AND steep. Here are my findings:
> 
> ...


This would be excellent if it were in miles.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

Saint John said:


> This would be excellent if it were in miles.


those graphs omit the big climbs into whitefish and the big climbs btwn ferndale and lincoln that have historically separated wheat from chaff.

of those represented, the climbs btwn lincoln and helena, MT and then on to basin, MT are some of the toughest. if you're not slumming from ferndale to lincoln's effort, you will certainly be by the time you reach basin. silver lining? some of the best downhills on the entire GDMBR are tucked in there.

if you make it to butte, MT with your body in good form, mind in high spirits, you'll know you can finish the race. beyond butte the climbs get easier until CO but in their absence, you enter some of the most violent thunderstorms country (SW MT, NE ID, NW WY). most of the route is impassable in these stretches when wet so being lucky with timing can be as much a predictor of success as climbing prowess.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

*On cell phones*

Lots of good points being brought up here, on both sides of the coin. This is a tough call, made tougher by the emotions attached to the arguments.

If you really believe that a cell phone is gonna save your bacon out there, you're in for a rude slap-in-the-face awakening. My best estimate is that 90%+ of the course has no cell signal. Probably more like 95%. Break your leg or cut yourself badly and the only thing that's gonna save you is common sense, fast action to stem the bleeding, and a lotta luck-if someone happens to be driving by.

The reality is that when on-course on the GDR, you need to act as if there is no emergency assistance available, period. Ride cautiously, think clearly, and when in doubt, take the conservative route. It's extremely unlikely that help is nearby, even if you do have a means for calling them in.

Our final decision is that cell phones *are allowed* for GDR racers' *emergency use only*. By all means--bring it with you to satiate that need for "insurance". But keep it stashed away unless you're in dire straits. If you really, really need to use it, DO NOT HESITATE, and we hope that you can get a signal should that unfortunate time come. But once you've used it, you are DQ'd from the race. No exceptions, no arguments.

Thanks for understanding.

MC


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*on cell phones*

as i read that rule, riders are NOT allowed to use mobile phones but they can carry them?

what if a racer borrows some rancher's mobile phone? legal?

do we really want to dangle such a carrot?

it almost suggests that, indeed, any bush-leaguer racing the gdr *can* make a crackly, 2-bar call to local 911 dispatch from BFE that might actually save them. as its been said, this is 95% improbable. why kid ourselves then?

and the rule can never be policed.

seems the higher service to the racer (if DQ is the result of infraction) is simply not to allow mobile phone possession, period.

if your hide is on the line and your phone has service, its b/c you're already in a town or on a highway frontage road. at that point, calling for help would be the slowest way save your hide. why would one DQ themself for such?


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

*unrelated*

is anyone planning to do any riding in Mt before the race, i.e. from missoula airport, Bozeman airport ? etc...
I ask because I plan to dink around the state a bit to get my gear dialed in and also because its the most logical way for me to get to the starting gate.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

nathan bay said:


> is anyone planning to do any riding in Mt before the race, i.e. from missoula airport, Bozeman airport ? etc...
> I ask because I plan to dink around the state a bit to get my gear dialed in and also because its the most logical way for me to get to the starting gate.


try riding from kilometer post zero at the top of the GDMBR. You'll see plenty of MT during the race. missoula and bozeman are not good places to begin a warm-up from as they're both pretty far from the flathead valley and not very accessible by safe biking routes.

kalispell international/whitefish is the traditional pedal-off point for riding to the start. you're sure to find at least one start-bound racer to keep company w/ up hwy 93 on thurs 6/14.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

mathewsen said:


> as i read that rule, riders are NOT allowed to use mobile phones but they can carry them?
> 
> This is a way to placate the people that will throw a fit if they can't have their phone as a safety measure
> 
> ...


xxx


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## normZurawski (Mar 30, 2006)

For an unsanctioned, underground event, there sure are a lot of rules and talk of "policing". This discussion sure seems to miss the point of it all. Before long there will be talk of sanctioning bodies and, dare I say, USA Cycling...


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

I live in Bozeman, but will be riding from Missoula to Columbia Falls sometime before the race, ps,,,what are kilometers?


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

normZurawski said:


> For an unsanctioned, underground event, there sure are a lot of rules and talk of "policing". This discussion sure seems to miss the point of it all. Before long there will be talk of sanctioning bodies and, dare I say, USA Cycling...


Unfortunately, I think Mike's hand is being forced. His addition to the website this year regarding raising oneself to the level of the race instead of bringing the race down to one's level was a strong message. I think it's a real challenge to maintain the spirit of this race as it grows older and bigger. Boiling it down to "just do it yourself" should be enough, but to his point on the site, it's only human nature (even in good people) to try and increase their advantage by finding loopholes.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

Saint John said:


> Unfortunately, I think Mike's hand is being forced. His addition to the website this year regarding raising oneself to the level of the race instead of bringing the race down to one's level was a strong message. I think it's a real challenge to maintain the spirit of this race as it grows older and bigger. Boiling it down to "just do it yourself" should be enough, but to his point on the site, it's only human nature (even in good people) to try and increase their advantage by finding loopholes.


yes, this is a challenge so why inject gray areas into the rules. is the mobile phone escape clause for billy, or billy's mother to feel better? it would be a whole lot simpler if mobiles were either not allowed or allowed for anything, anytime. we already agree that they're useless 95% of the time.

on policing: do we expect someone about to lose life or limb to act ethically (or to even remember having made a cell phone call)? why set them up for the dilemma?

if mobile giants have their way, eventually there may be no more pay phones in the rural rockies. how do we see phones then? do we gradually repeal the ban so racers can mobile phone the blog? ...all things to consider.

what would stamstad have carried in `99? maybe a flair gun? times change quickly.


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## normZurawski (Mar 30, 2006)

Saint John said:


> Unfortunately, I think Mike's hand is being forced. His addition to the website this year regarding raising oneself to the level of the race instead of bringing the race down to one's level was a strong message. I think it's a real challenge to maintain the spirit of this race as it grows older and bigger. Boiling it down to "just do it yourself" should be enough, but to his point on the site, it's only human nature (even in good people) to try and increase their advantage by finding loopholes.


No doubt it's a slippery slope, I entirely understand that. What I cringe at personally is throwing around expressions like, "this way all the wimps can have their phones." Quite honestly that sounds like 5th grade stuff, no offense to 5th graders.

As far as I can see it's a self-officiated race, so if people are going to cheat they're going to cheat. If someone bangs out an incredible time and they use a cell phone that nobody knows about, well that's his cross to bear. What goes around comes around, usually. The vast majority of the riders are doing it for their own reasons, not to get a stamp of approval from some governing body, or person. If you've come in 18th and would have finished 19th if it weren't for some piece of illegal equipment, well big whoop, honestly. If you need to cheat to beat my by a single spot, good for you.

I guess my perspective is that it's not a cut-throat competetive race so the heated debate on cellphones seems overkill to me. Personally I see GPS devices as a far greater form of "cheating" than cell phones. I mean, vastly greater, not even in the same ballpark greater. Anyone whose ever been toasted trying to follow directions will agree it's easier to follow an arrow that read a map. Additionally, you could have the same argument about CO2 cartridges versus hand pumps, or gears versus no gears, or...well, you get the idea.

I think in the end, as well, the "wimps" who want their cell phone security are going to bring them anyway, regardless of the rules. I also think mikesee's last post is good, particularly the "slap-in-the-face" part. Living on the East Coast I really have no notion of areas without cell phone coverage. We occasionally go hiking on the AT and when camping at night more often than not I get better reception from my tent than I do at home - no lie. I always toss my phone in my bag because it's zero-cost insurance and it makes my wife happy. But I don't rely on it to save me.


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

I INSIST that we BAN gps if we are banning cell phones. I cannot afford them, and these certainly give person A and advantage over person B.

I personally think this is completely bogus. I used a cell phone last year, as did almost all the other racers, and no one gave a damn. I personally watched multiple people call in to the blog 800 number on their phones. Are you going to change us all from DNF to DQ?

Are we going to ban disc brakes? Do we have to use suspension forks from 1999? All these technologies give us an unfair advantage over the racers of the past... 

This ban is only going to make the quality of race coverage worse. There were certainly some areas that I had service but I wouldn't have wasted the time trying to find a payphone to call in from, whereas spending 10 seconds to turn on my phone was fine. There are other issues with this. Blogging capabilities are going to fall... I was seriously considering getting a videophone so I could upload a videoblog onto YouTube whenever I got to an area with service. That possibility is completely gone now. Uploading photos midrace? Gone. I did an interview with MTBcast while in Ashton ID last year, on my cellphone. Had I not had my cellphone, that would have never happened because I would not have wasted all that money on a calling card.


I would seriously be interested to see if Matt L. had used a cellphone at all during the race. Do we discredit his finishes?

This isn't maintaining the integrity of the race, it's luddism.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

normZurawski said:


> No doubt it's a slippery slope, ....Living on the East Coast I really have no notion of areas without cell phone coverage.


no cell phone coverage is a state of mind one can achieve no matter where you go.

the view of GPS is tolerance for the GDR cuz the map cues are easy enough that GPS doesn't really offer much advantage. races like the GLR might be a different story. GPS are illegal for adventure racing. perhaps self-support mtb racing forums ought borrow discussions from them about why, how.

are we trying to see how well we pedal our bicycles or some combination of skills and how do we weight each skill? the GDR is so dang long that, in the end, NO ONE can hide from how well they pedal...and pedal...and pedal.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*unplugged for me*



sizlinseagulsoup said:


> I INSIST that we BAN gps if we are banning cell phones. I cannot afford them, and these certainly give person A and advantage over person B...This ban is only going to make the quality of race coverage worse...I would seriously be interested to see if Matt L. had used a cellphone at all during the race. Do we discredit his finishes?...This isn't maintaining the integrity of the race, it's luddism.


i have never used a GPS, mp3, cell phone, etc. i carried a camera the first year to document the route heavily as i "toured it". i even think that detracted from my experience. no camera, even, for me at this point.

the race is not really about "coverage", by the way. again, is the race for/about billy or billy's mommy?

the GDR philosophy IS about luddism in some respects. we're trying to give ourselves a vacation from the rat race.


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## normZurawski (Mar 30, 2006)

mathewsen said:


> no cell phone coverage is a state of mind one can achieve no matter where you go.
> 
> the view of GPS is tolerance for the GDR cuz the map cues are easy enough that GPS doesn't really offer much advantage. races like the GLR might be a different story. GPS are illegal for adventure racing. perhaps self-support mtb racing forums ought borrow discussions from them about why, how.
> 
> are we trying to see how well we pedal our bicycles or some combination of skills and how do we weight each skill? the GDR is so dang long that, in the end, NO ONE can hide from how well they pedal...and pedal...and pedal.


All good thoughts. To your last point I would argue that it's actually a lot more than just pedaling, and it moves into the realm of adventure race when you become self-supported and move beyond some certain number of hours. I would classify the GDR as an adventure race on a mountain bike.


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

sizlinseagulsoup said:


> I INSIST that we BAN gps if we are banning cell phones. I cannot afford them, and these certainly give person A and advantage over person B.
> 
> I personally think this is completely bogus. I used a cell phone last year, as did almost all the other racers, and no one gave a damn. I personally watched multiple people call in to the blog 800 number on their phones. Are you going to change us all from DNF to DQ?
> 
> ...


Having orienteered for years, I feel pretty strongly that GPS doesn't really provide an advantage in this race. GPS introduces complexity to an otherwise simple set of "turn here" directions.


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## Singlespeedpunk (Jan 6, 2004)

Saint John said:


> Having orienteered for years, I feel pretty strongly that GPS doesn't really provide an advantage in this race. GPS introduces complexity to an otherwise simple set of "turn here" directions.


Having used a GPS quite a bit in the last few years I can attest to the fact that they are a lot easier to get wrong when totally knackered/demoralised/disorientated than a map and clear directions.

Can they help? Yes, IF the data put in is OK and they don't throw a fit / run out of power / loose reception / fall off the bike....you get the idea! I like them as I have a terrible memory and have trouble keeping one or two directions in my head at a time...add to this self doubt and extra voices and its nice to just follow the friendly arrow :thumbsup:

Alex


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

*For an unsanctioned, underground event, there sure are a lot of rules and talk of "policing". This discussion sure seems to miss the point of it all. Before long there will be talk of sanctioning bodies and, dare I say, USA Cycling.*..

Mmmm. We just added one rule. It's like a sentence long. The rest have been there for years.

*No doubt it's a slippery slope, I entirely understand that. What I cringe at personally is throwing around expressions like, "this way all the wimps can have their phones." Quite honestly that sounds like 5th grade stuff,*

So calling someone a fifth grader is somehow less offensive than calling them a wimp?, which was not on the forum by the way.

*INSIST that we BAN gps if we are banning cell phones. I cannot afford them, and these certainly give person A and advantage over person B.

I personally think this is completely bogus. I used a cell phone last year, as did almost all the other racers, and no one gave a damn. I personally watched multiple people call in to the blog 800 number on their phones. Are you going to change us all from DNF to DQ?*

Hells yeah, lets ban GPSes, but I promise you they offer no advantage. I put them in the same category as cameras. People use them to record the trip. The GPS just does it with different data.

*There were certainly some areas that I had service but I wouldn't have wasted the time trying to find a payphone to call in from, whereas spending 10 seconds to turn on my phone was fine.*

Advantage?

*Are we going to ban disc brakes? Do we have to use suspension forks from 1999? All these technologies give us an unfair advantage over the racers of the past...
*
I consider this a non sequitur argument. The problem with the phone isn't that it is technology, but that it provides you with a support network on the trail.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

pbasinger said:


> * Mmmm. We just added one rule. It's like a sentence long. The rest have been there for years....Hells yeah, lets ban GPSes....The problem with the phone isn't that it is technology, but that it provides you with a support network on the trail.*


*

ok, so that settles it. Billy gives up his cell phone if jimmy gives up his GPS.

Both are banned. cool, a luddite picnic.

Mike, please save us from this ongoing debate.*


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## normZurawski (Mar 30, 2006)

pbasinger said:


> Mmmm. We just added one rule. It's like a sentence long. The rest have been there for years.


Fair enough - it's just a lot of energy has been devoted to this discussion recently and seems to have stirred up quite a proverbial hornet's nest.



pbasinger said:


> So calling someone a fifth grader is somehow less offensive than calling them a wimp?


Certainly there's a distinction. The wimp comment characterizes the person. My comment is a characterization of what someone said, which I stand by. There's a difference between calling someone a dick and calling what they said or did a "dick move", for instance. Regardless, you're right that it wasn't said on the thread but your blog. So my bad and apoligies for insinuating such.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

*it's just a lot of energy has been devoted to this discussion recently and seems to have stirred up quite a proverbial hornet's nest.
*

I totally agree, and I understand why people might think it's all really silly, but specifics and rules are very important to me as is this race. I think little details like this could become a big issue down the road, they have before and all this back and forth is fun and I think what the forums are for.


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

"There were certainly some areas that I had service but I wouldn't have wasted the time trying to find a payphone to call in from, whereas spending 10 seconds to turn on my phone was fine.

Advantage?"

If anything, a disadvantage, because instead of just blowing through an area, I just wasted a few minutes to unpack my phone, call in, and repack it.

I still think this is all silly. The race isn't about coverage? O.K. Then why do we /have/ coverage? Don't act like your sponsors don't like the call in's, the video you took in CO, or the press on cyclingnews. Aren't these blog posts a support network of sorts? If we disappear, everyone knows where we last called in from, and can figure out approximately where we might be.

I feel like an individual / a small group of individuals is just picking and choosing what is acceptable and what isn't, somewhat arbitrarily. Everything is a support network.

But this is all a side note. I think the press coverage is important, maybe not for us as racers, but for John Q. Public, and getting rid of it would be a mistake. There are real issues with banning cell phones. In Mass., almost all the payphones have been removed all across the state. Not just in Boston, but in the Berkshires too. As Matt pointed out, how long will it take before this happens in Butte, or Helena, or small town x, y, and z in the Rockies? What will we do then? Perhaps this is my youth talking, but sometimes we have to adapt to changes in technology, even if we really don't want to, because the rest of the world is not going to stay in 1999 for a bunch of silly mountain bike racers...


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## fpecorp (Feb 22, 2006)

I basically agree. The race-speed advantage of the cell phone is very small (if you obey all the other rules and use it only for good and not for evil).

Typically, items that are very expensive and make one actually go faster get banned from athletic competitions because they give the competitiors with deeper pockets unfair advantage over others. But I think we all have cell phones (hell I even finally got one about three years ago - and I may have been the last hold-out), so unless there is someone who feels they must have one to be competitive and can't afford one, what's the issue? (as long as no one uses it to cheat, which one can do with or without it) 
It's probably the cheapest piece of equipment in our kit.

It is a slippery slope when you start to trying to regulate the means rather than the ends.
(what about a PDA, or other web-enabled device?) 
What if I bring the cell, and use it to take pictures only? What if I upload them to a computer along the way? (but save the phone part for a dire disqualifying emergency). One-way communication going out certainly is not a violation of any rule or guiding principle of this event. It still would not have been used to voilate the "outside help rule".

Kevin is right, we all used them to check in with the race last year, and to talk to friends & family also. Was there a problem with this that I missed? Did that make us faster, or more of a competitive threat?

Also, I am not likely to be inclined to waste a lot of time looking for a payphone to check in. If I can't find one easily I am much more likely to just blow it off and wait for the next, easier-to-find one. Since there are no fixed check-in points, this attitude could give me an advantage over someone more conscientious.

In any case, I think the reason for all the blowback from this new rule is because it is totally unexpected (after many years without any issue coming up in this regard), seems arbitrarily and unnecessarily restrictive, and will not effect whether or not any rider obeys all the other rules or the spirit of the competition as they have been previously layed out.

(I actually considered using a GPS with XM realtime local weather, but I decided against it because I thought it would violate the spirit of the rules, since I would have access to better weather info than everyone else. I didn't need a special rule to make that decision, even though it could easily be thought of as an extension of the GPS allowance (which clearly conflicts with the very straightforward "no outside help with navigation" rule).) 

Anyway, I think the cell should fall under the same category as the GPS does: it's great for safety, and you can use it if you want, but in the end you have to carry it, charge it, maintain it, and if it breaks, you've got to be able to go on without it. And you can't use it to break any of the other rules.

Having put in my two cents, I will not use a cell phone if the new rule remains, but I will still bring it for obvious safety reasons. A lot can happen out there, and even if you are not getting a signal at the time you need it, it can still help you get found in an emergency.


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## Morlahach (Nov 8, 2005)

*Hunh?*

Hunh?

I just stumbled into this, as I have off and on been looking into the GDR thread out of curiousity. Th GDR is one of those things I like to dream about doing without actually lifting a finger to actually ever do.

But I have to ask, what point is there in banning cell phones? Might as well ban paperback books and shoelaces while you are at it. A cell phone is to a bike race like a fish is to a traffic helicopter. They just aren't related.

But it isn't my race. I won't be either participating or running it. Ya'll can do whatever you like.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Well, That leaves me with a dilemna, I was counting on calling my kids in the evening to say good night. 

Cmon guys, lets not get carried away. This whole race is based on HONOR. The HONOR system. If I kick your ass, it's not gonna matter if I sadi good noght to my kids every night(or whenever I could get reception). Or if you are gonna kick my ass Im not gonnas say it's because you called someone on your cell phone.

Lets all step back and just use some common sense. I aquired a satelite phone for this race just so I could call the kids and let them know daddy didnt get eaten by a bear today.

Yeah, it sounds silly, but that life. 

Now, to clear up a little more mystery racer fog out there. It ISNT Tinker either, in fact his reply was along the lines of Landis's.."Whats that?"

So, we can be happy this race isnt mianstream enough that it's on the cool list, or that everyone knows about it. 
I agree with anearlier post by someone, I cant remember who, that this will be the breakout year of the race, so lets enjoy it before people start forcing the "Organizers" to start making a bunch of rules.

Lets just show up and race, when I get my ass kicked by 4 days my Matt, it wont be because of a phone OR a rules violation.

just my .02, which along with a buck, wont get me **** at a gas station in kablooeyville MT...

Later
Hodge


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## grroes (Feb 21, 2007)

To those who can't accept leaving your phones at home while riding the GDR, when can you ever leave your phone at home? Perhaps you could just view a phoneless GDR as an oppurtunity to regain a little freedom from mobile phone dependancy that seems to be pretty near extinct these days. Perhaps by the end of the race you'll be greatful for this one simple rule and more clearly see just how ridiculous your dependancy problem is. If that doesn't do it just read back through the last 15 or 20 posts on this thread and things should become glaringly obvious. I know, it's the year 2007 and cell phones are a way of life blah blah blah, but somehow I thought maybe this crowd would be a little less freaked out by not being able to use a mobile phone for a few weeks. wow, was i wrong.


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## quattrotom (Jul 15, 2006)

From a virtual spectator and dreamer of one day doing the GDR...

I loved the blog and MTBCast. I want to thank all of the racers for calling in and telling their stories along the route. I definitely looked forward to blowing off time each day to listen to the call-ins. I don't think I'm alone in saying that I dream of getting myself in enough shape to do this race and find the time at some point in my life. Since I'm also a 'roadie' - I follow the Race Across America. There are lots of updates from teams and organizers at every step, but you don't hear from the racers themselves and it doesn't really put you in their shoes like the GDR call-ins.

I think it would be really unfortunate if the call-ins decreased because of discontinued use of cell phones. Since abiding by the race rules is on the honor system anyway, I don't particularly understand. Is it any different from racers not stopping by their friends houses along the route? Having a cell phone and _not_ calling for assistance isn't really different from having a friend own a ranch within a mile of the course and _not_ stopping for a good night's rest and free meal.

If you do abolish cell phones, please find another way to keep us updated and in touch with the racers. As someone else pointed out, it is a nice safety measure in case someone stops calling in - but on another note: This is a great event and acts as a spokesman for free and open land use. It documents the clean usage of the land - no support vehicles, no trash, no spectators - just virtual spectators who in turn act as spokesmen for open access and public lands all across this country.

To the 'race directors' : please also think about all of virtual spectators and potential future racers. There might even be a chance that a future senator or representative gets directly or indirectly inspired by these events and decides to vote for continued open access to public lands and not for deforestation. There is a bigger picture.

Thanks for your time.


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

grroes said:


> To those who can't accept leaving your phones at home while riding the GDR, when can you ever leave your phone at home? Perhaps you could just view a phoneless GDR as an oppurtunity to regain a little freedom from mobile phone dependancy that seems to be pretty near extinct these days. Perhaps by the end of the race you'll be greatful for this one simple rule and more clearly see just how ridiculous your dependancy problem is. If that doesn't do it just read back through the last 15 or 20 posts on this thread and things should become glaringly obvious. I know, it's the year 2007 and cell phones are a way of life blah blah blah, but somehow I thought maybe this crowd would be a little less freaked out by not being able to use a mobile phone for a few weeks. wow, was i wrong.


Whoa, don't lump us all together. I decided a year ago not to bring a cell phone. I actually see an advantage in cutting ties and focusing on the quest. I can just see me popping out a cell phone during a cold t-storm and asking my wife what temperature the hot tub is at!!

To be clear though, this is MY take on it....I'm not casting stones on those who are defending their wish to call their children each night. That's a situation I'm not in and therefor will not pretend to understand. My wife is willing to live with pay phone frequency....


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## grroes (Feb 21, 2007)

Saint John said:


> Whoa, don't lump us all together. I decided a year ago not to bring a cell phone. I actually see an advantage in cutting ties and focusing on the quest. I can just see me popping out a cell phone during a cold t-storm and asking my wife what temperature the hot tub is at!!
> 
> To be clear though, this is MY take on it....I'm not casting stones on those who are defending their wish to call their children each night. That's a situation I'm not in and therefor will not pretend to understand. My wife is willing to live with pay phone frequency....


yeah, I was a little surprised with where this thread had gone when I wrote my last post. thus the overreaction in lumping everyone in together. My comments were obviously overgeneralized, but i thought maybe that was what was needed to shed some light on just how overspecialized this conversation had become. I think people have raised some valid points on both sides but i've yet to hear any reason in favor of allowing cell phone USE that seems to be in line with what I understand "the spirit" of this race to be. I guess maybe the broader problem is that everyone has a slightly different interpretation on the spirit of this race. I think most would agree that the ideals of this race are clearly stated, but then everyone ends up with a slightly different interpretation of what this means to them. thus you end up with people on both sides of this cell phone issue who feel that those on the other side just don't get it.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

grroes said:


> To those who can't accept leaving your phones at home while riding the GDR, when can you ever leave your phone at home? Perhaps you could just view a phoneless GDR as an oppurtunity to regain a little freedom from mobile phone dependancy that seems to be pretty near extinct these days. Perhaps by the end of the race you'll be greatful for this one simple rule and more clearly see just how ridiculous your dependancy problem is. If that doesn't do it just read back through the last 15 or 20 posts on this thread and things should become glaringly obvious. I know, it's the year 2007 and cell phones are a way of life blah blah blah, but somehow I thought maybe this crowd would be a little less freaked out by not being able to use a mobile phone for a few weeks. wow, was i wrong.


Ooooooh, yeah Im freaking out, YEah, I can picture everybody reading these post is doing so with stress and sweat beading from their foreheads....actually, no. No, is freaking out. Someo of us with families, dont want to be cut off from them for three weeks, aksing a husband and father to that is retarded, period. That's why noone is asking someone to do that, and if we all use some common sense we can make our own decisions.

Cell phone or no, calling card and payphone or whatever. People following the race want to know who is where, that what makes this race entertaining. It's too bad we cant all have a tracking device on, and a website with a somewhat detailed map showing spectators at home how everyone is doing, that would be really cool.

Of course, then If i were to call the wife and say goodnight, she might say " Actually honey, so and so is right ahead of you, you should keep going" then that would change stuff huh?

oh well, im sure we'll figure it out.

Peace and grease,
Hodge


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## grroes (Feb 21, 2007)

velomech said:


> Ooooooh, yeah Im freaking out, YEah, I can picture everybody reading these post is doing so with stress and sweat beading from their foreheads....actually, no. No, is freaking out. Someo of us with families, dont want to be cut off from them for three weeks, aksing a husband and father to that is retarded, period. That's why noone is asking someone to do that, and if we all use some common sense we can make our own decisions.
> 
> Cell phone or no, calling card and payphone or whatever. People following the race want to know who is where, that what makes this race entertaining. It's too bad we cant all have a tracking device on, and a website with a somewhat detailed map showing spectators at home how everyone is doing, that would be really cool.
> 
> ...


oooh, i like the tracking device idea. i think you're onto something. check out my previous post, it should more clearly show where I was coming from on the post before that.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

grroes said:


> yeah, I was a little surprised with where this thread had gone when I wrote my last post. thus the overreaction in lumping everyone in together. My comments were obviously overgeneralized, but i thought maybe that was what was needed to shed some light on just how overspecialized this conversation had become. I think people have raised some valid points on both sides but i've yet to hear any reason in favor of allowing cell phone USE that seems to be in line with what I understand "the spirit" of this race to be. I guess maybe the broader problem is that everyone has a slightly different interpretation on the spirit of this race. I think most would agree that the ideals of this race are clearly stated, but then everyone ends up with a slightly different interpretation of what this means to them. thus you end up with people on both sides of this cell phone issue who feel that those on the other side just don't get it.


That is correct sir!

We all get the securtiy blanket anaolgy, bottom line is at some point we will all be walking the race if we use the technology excuse. I think eventually everyone will decide for themselves and we all will play by the rules. Common sense will hopefully answer most of my questions.

There have been a couple of different races (auto and adventure) were tv channels or sponsors were tracking the progress of the competitors along a website and they had a pic of a state and different routes and each competitor had a chip, and you could see there progress over the whole state, with a view of the whole state, it gave a sense of the race, it was cool...

but that would take some money and I dont think that would be an option....

Cheers and beers
Hodge


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## Pente (Apr 21, 2007)

I rode the route last summer south to north (Matt--I ran into you just north of that closed section by Butte) and used my phone throughout. I could count on getting service by interstates and bigger towns, and every once in awhile way up high somewhere. 

I never used it in a way that I would have considered an unfair advantage if I were racing or a violation of the do it yourself principle--not because I was trying to follow the GDR rules, that's just the way it worked out. Mostly I called my wife and other people to keep them updated when I got into town. Once I used it in town (instead of an available pay phone) to have a part shipped to me. I suppose I could have called in for weather forecasts or something, but that info is on the radio too. 

Using the cell phone in a way that really would be an advantage--calling and having a pizza or spare part delivered to you on the route or something--would be cheating whether you used a cell phone or got a message out on some landowner's phone or in any other way. The cell phone is only a support network if you use it as one. 

There's a legit problem with breakdowns though. Say I break down near a farmhouse with a phone, or somebody stops to help and has a phone. I can accept a ride into town from the farmhouse person or the person who stops. But can I call and get a taxi to come pick me up and drive me to town? I don't know what the right answer is, but seems like if calling for a ride on the farmhouse phone is OK, so should calling on a cell phone (and the opposite). Maybe rather than banning cell phones a better approach would be just to address the calling ahead problem.



-Mike


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

I think the debate is really not so much using a cell phone to cheat. I think it's a larger picture thing. Like if you have a cell phone, which is instant communication, depending on signal, would it alter the way you would run the stage given that safety net. If you didnt have the option to call for help or assistance would you race it differently?

It's a valid point. But I think (hope) in the long run, we will be using cell phones for updating all of our various buddy sites, so the larger than last year viewing audience will stay informed. I have three or four people on the list to give details of how the stage goes. but only giving info, not getting it.

I think there a quite a few sites out there that are really jazzed about the turnout this year and look forward to monitoring. We should do our best to keep everyone informed as best as possible. Making this thing as exciting as possible only helps the cause.(I say cause, but I might be the only one really wanting the race to get huge!)

I would love to hear on Versus in a couple of years how the event has turned into the most watched mountain bike race in the world. A blast back to what racing a major tour was 100 years ago. The hardest race in the world. How cool would that be. Mikesee, Matt, or PeteyB sitting next to Bobke giving him the whats what on who the darkhorses are.

Having a motorcycle follow competitors through parts of each stage, asking questions as they pedal along.

If anyone saw Versus's coverage of the Iditarod this year with the sled dogs, thats what I can see happening to this race in five years...anyone else?

Cheers and Beers
Hodge
www.addictivecycles.com
cell 678-576-7400


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

velomech said:


> There have been a couple of different races (auto and adventure) were tv channels or sponsors were tracking the progress of the competitors along a website and they had a pic of a state and different routes and each competitor had a chip, and you could see there progress over the whole state, with a view of the whole state, it gave a sense of the race, it was cool.
> Hodge


I've looked into tracking devices. they are very expensive and would have to be done by a company with the technology and deep pockets. read: a sponsor. for better or worse, last time i checked the GDR was not in that business.

more ad nauseum on mobile phones: if your mobile works, you can bet there's a pay phone nearby. they're not extinct yet...and its not unreasonable to ask folks to make finding one "part of the adventure", part of the rules. I have participated mobile-free in all three renditions of the GDR and spectators would not know the difference btwn my coverage and reports by one of the mobile phone users of last year. coverage won't suffer.

on talking to kids/wives/mothers/astrologers at night, i'm sorry but i have little sympathy for such plight. to work up a metaphor here, we're all coming to the GDR to do a bit of battling. whether it be against your demons, the other competitors, or simply against the course. historically battle doesn't involve calling home every night. it might sound counter intuitive to some but its bad for troop morale to have too much contact with loved ones/the outside world. you'll see...this endeavor is about leaving the civilized world behind to join the natural world and participate in its daily cycles. call it a metamorphosis, a vision quest or whatever, but to feel stuck btwn two worlds or see greener grass is to fall short on the experience. i promise you. some hippy sang "there is a time and a place for everything under the sun". if we decide the GDR is not the time to carry a mobile phone, its not personal, its symbolic.

its also true that NOT ALL cell phone technology is equal. a mtn states coverage plan is superior to "subbed-out" (roaming) east coaster coverage or what have you. not all phones are equal either. a satellite phone would have huge advantages over a tower signal. the sum of time spent NOT looking for a pay phone would be significant over the course of three weeks too.

either mobiles should be required or disallowed. something in between seems complicated and subtly unleveling. simply put, if you can ride AND talk on the phone at the same time, then you're gaining advantage on the phone booth-only user standing on tired legs baking in the sun waiting for calling card digits to process.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Well, Im gonna have to think on that. Whatever the powers that be decide, so be it. I like payphones just as much as the next guy, ofcourse me actually NOT losing a calling card will be a challenge.

I have no problem using either. Contact is contact...lack of it can be a good thing too sometimes. After thinking about it, going a week with out talking to anyone except myself could be a good thing....unless I end up in some type of ward in booptytown Idaho...ummmm.....hmmmmm.

Peace and grease
Hodge
www.addictivecycles.com
cell 678-576-7400


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## Pente (Apr 21, 2007)

mathewsen said:


> on talking to kids/wives/mothers/astrologers at night, i'm sorry but i have little sympathy for such plight. to work up a metaphor here, we're all coming to the GDR to do a bit of battling. whether it be against your demons, the other competitors, or simply against the course. historically battle doesn't involve calling home every night. it might sound counter intuitive to some but its bad for troop morale to have too much contact with loved ones/the outside world. you'll see...this endeavor is about leaving the civilized world behind to join the natural world and participate in its daily cycles. call it a metamorphosis, a vision quest or whatever, but to feel stuck btwn two worlds or see greener grass is to fall short on the experience. .


But the purpose of the rules isn't to send people on a vision quest. People have different reasons for doing this race. I can understand doing it in order to clear your mind or do the vision quest thing. Other people may just be in it because they just want to test their physical limits. Who cares why? The purpose of the rules is to give some guidance on what it means to do the ride yourself, not to force people to have a certain experience or take a certain thing away.

Maybe this is a stupid discussion. But I suspect the no cell phone thing will be a significant inconvenience for people who want to keep a certain level of contact, and it seems like swatting a fly with a 2 x 4. Why not just keep the second part of the rule--if you call for help, you're out--and eliminate the part that might make it harder to convince my wife to let me do this in '08. (This is why this cell phone thing is interesting to me... seriously.) Or, if it's more than just calling for help we're worried about, figure out exactly what it is that's such a big deal and tell people not to do it.

-Mike


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## mvi (Jan 15, 2004)

Is it not unfair to the people shooting for the record, to change the rules between races? If it is an advantage to use a cell phone, than keep it, to level the playing field.
If its not an advantage, than keep it for safety.
I,m not a player here, but enjoyed the online daily updates last year.


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## buildrunbike (Jan 15, 2007)

*Spirit of the Rules*

My vote would be to strike the cell phone disqualification rule. It seems to me there's a history of people using cell phones within the rules, like calling your spouse or the blog, and I haven't heard of any out-of-bounds use. It's like the loophole-do-it-yourself-elevate-the-race statement at the bottom of the rules. If you order a pizza on the course, you're clearly violating the spirit of the rules.

The idea that I can't call my wife if I have a phone in my pocket just makes me uneasy. Kind of like that testosterone patch I've been wearing for 3 days straight.

Just kidding about that last bit.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

buildrunbike said:


> My vote would be to strike the cell phone disqualification rule. It seems to me there's a history of people using cell phones within the rules, like calling your spouse or the blog, and I haven't heard of any out-of-bounds use. It's like the loophole-do-it-yourself-elevate-the-race statement at the bottom of the rules. If you order a pizza on the course, you're clearly violating the spirit of the rules.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I think we have already crossed that bridge. I believe the rules are now stating no cell use unless it's an emergency. So, Im thinking as we the towns we bust out the calling card and ring up the folks. I Dont think its too big a deal. We'll just have to ride that much faster right?
> ...


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

velomech said:


> buildrunbike said:
> 
> 
> > My vote would be to strike the cell phone disqualification rule. It seems to me there's a history of people using cell phones within the rules, like calling your spouse or the blog, and I haven't heard of any out-of-bounds use. It's like the loophole-do-it-yourself-elevate-the-race statement at the bottom of the rules. If you order a pizza on the course, you're clearly violating the spirit of the rules.
> ...


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

Well, I think a lot of people are not happy about the cell phones, but onto another issue.

Dropping gear.

As we near the end of the race and we are in a neck-and-neck horse race, what would happen if a racer decided to stash his panniers and do the last few hundred miles with absolutely no gear?

(I want to get this covered early, because I could see the temptation in doing it)


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

sizlinseagulsoup said:


> Well, I think a lot of people are not happy about the cell phones, but onto another issue.
> 
> Dropping gear: As we near the end of the race and we are in a neck-and-neck horse race, what would happen if a racer decided to stash his panniers and do the last few hundred miles with absolutely no gear?
> 
> (I want to get this covered early, because I could see the temptation in doing it)


kevin, 
since no one that has carried/used a cell phone has logged in an official finish time at antelope wells, it can be argued there is no precedent and therefore no wrong answer to that debate.

you'll find you won't miss it. start researching the most economical calling cards now. there are some that do not get docked 99c worth of surcharge by the on-the-ground phone as would be typical with a wal-mart purchased card. big carriers like mci or at&t offer surcharge-free card numbers, but not actual cards. using your credit card is too pricey.

on dropping gear, its darwinian-driven. drop/send home what you think you can survive w/out.

for strategy's sake, though, i'll say a couple of things: its best not drop overnight gear until you make it through the "gila-monster" section of brutal canyon riding in gila NF, NM. This means your best opp. for gear drop is silver city, 120 miles from route's end. beyond silver is mostly flat windy riding that won't really make you conscious of your load. in fact, the extra weight might help with momentum when fighting desert cross winds on the last 70 (paved) miles to the border. the second reason to hold on to gear is to have supplies at the border, have `em for hitching/surviving after the race and b/c "a gear bag on the bike is worth two in the bush (in the mail)".

by NM the body is pure diesel and the weight will make little difference to you. the hassle of dropping is far more significant.


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

FYI:
I haven't heard back from Mike C. but as far as I know we're still using my call-in number. That number is toll-free. Before posting it, though, I'll wait for Mike. We used the number last year. It provides 3 minutes per message and that worked out well. So if you can get to a phone the call should be free. Maybe someone can chime in who called in last year as to their experience.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

jav1231 said:


> FYI:
> I haven't heard back from Mike C. but as far as I know we're still using my call-in number. That number is toll-free. Before posting it, though, I'll wait for Mike. We used the number last year. It provides 3 minutes per message and that worked out well. So if you can get to a phone the call should be free. Maybe someone can chime in who called in last year as to their experience.


Joe-

I emailed you a few weeks ago. It'd be great to have MTBCast back on board.

With the number of people semi-committed to racing, I'm starting to feel bad for Tom Purvis. He may develop arthritis in his digits this June...

Perhaps we need a rule limiting the phone calls to _*2*_ minutes...

MC


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

jav1231 said:


> FYI:
> I haven't heard back from Mike C. but as far as I know we're still using my call-in number. That number is toll-free. Before posting it, though, I'll wait for Mike. We used the number last year. It provides 3 minutes per message and that worked out well. So if you can get to a phone the call should be free. Maybe someone can chime in who called in last year as to their experience.


yep, its free and good to go. you have no idea how much money that saves the racers/improves "coverage". its the bomb! racers and followers ought support mtbcast.com on that principle alone. i can't imagine the gdr would not want it. but don't publish your no. here lest it be abused by a non-racer. pete can send it to all serious inquiries or distribute it at the start.

JP, your call-in #'s one omission relative to previous years on course is a greeting upon call in that informs the caller of the other racers last known positions. with a big field threatening to race this year, tracking it all will be difficult but it is nice to be informed somehow of where the other racers are w/out having to call a friend/family member for blog updates.

the gdr blog does not cover the canadian prologue so if you want to do your own coverage of that section, there are 5 riders rolling out from banff on that adventure beginning tuesday/wed prior to gdr. i'm sure any of those gangstas would be happy to call in if your toll-free works in CN.


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

mikesee said:


> Joe-
> 
> I emailed you a few weeks ago. It'd be great to have MTBCast back on board.
> 
> ...


Mike,
Ah! I didn't get the email. There was a brief period where my webmail filled up my account but I never noticed because I use a client. What was weird was that my account info showed 0 bytes used. I thought my "remove mail on server" was working and it wasn't. Gotta love hosting companies!

Matthew,
Yeah I can probably do an update on the greeting.

I was also curious about something. All racers have to have a punch or ticket or something on the Canadian side, right? If so, they will need a passport with the new restrictions or not?

I plan to be up there. Velomech and I are driving up from Atlanta.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

jav1231 said:


> I was also curious about something. All racers have to have a punch or ticket or something on the Canadian side, right? If so, they will need a passport with the new restrictions or not?


If a racer is not doing the CN Prologue, a passport is not required as the roll-out actually begins from the seedy "first chance/last chance" border bar some 75 yards from the port booth.


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

Ah! Cool. I'm stoked, though not racing. Looking forward to meeting everyone. Do we have a list or is someone maintaining a list of prospective racers?


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

*Water, Water Treatment and Tracking Miles*

A few questions for you GDR experts:

1. What are the major water spots to plan for in New Mexico?

2. Filter or no filter? I've collected a lot off "must have" and "don't need it" responses. I'd like to hear the opinions and the arguments behind them. Originally I thought absolutely bring a filter, but the more I've considered it the more I think tablets may suffice. I would think time, water quality, weight and space savings are all considerations.

3. In tracking mileage in conjunction with the GDMBR maps, how do you manage "extras" like a side road into a campground or maybe a sidebar to a hotel? Do you try and keep the math straight in your head? Take notes? Or do you turn off/remove the computer?

Thanks...

Matt


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## normZurawski (Mar 30, 2006)

Saint John said:


> 2. Filter or no filter? I've collected a lot off "must have" and "don't need it" responses. I'd like to hear the opinions and the arguments behind them. Originally I thought absolutely bring a filter, but the more I've considered it the more I think tablets may suffice. I would think time, water quality, weight and space savings are all considerations.


I used to do quite a bit of hiking and thus water filtering, and I seem to remember reading over and over that no form of filtering works any better than something like 1% of the time. I should append that statement to say that the filtering works just fine, but the chances of actually filtering every drop of water that gets on your hands/outside of the jug/on the filter tube/etc is about 1%. If you get "bad water" on your hands in the process, it basically nullifies the whole filtering process.


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

normZurawski said:


> I used to do quite a bit of hiking and thus water filtering, and I seem to remember reading over and over that no form of filtering works any better than something like 1% of the time. I should append that statement to say that the filtering works just fine, but the chances of actually filtering every drop of water that gets on your hands/outside of the jug/on the filter tube/etc is about 1%. If you get "bad water" on your hands in the process, it basically nullifies the whole filtering process.


Thanks for the response. Well, I also do a lot of backpacking and filtering, so it's not new. Backpacker magazine actually did a study where they tried to uncover the reality of "organisms to water ratio". It was surprising how small, on average, the risk is.

I think I'm looking for a broader "practical" analysis of the inclusion of a filter....i.e. do the benefits outweigh the cost, etc.


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## ionsmuse (Jul 14, 2005)

Saint John said:


> 2. Filter or no filter? I've collected a lot off "must have" and "don't need it" responses. I'd like to hear the opinions and the arguments behind them. Originally I thought absolutely bring a filter, but the more I've considered it the more I think tablets may suffice. I would think time, water quality, weight and space savings are all considerations.


Why I've never owned a filter and don't plan to:
-heavy
-bulky
-expensive
-needs maintenance
-takes times and effort to filter (just gets worse as a trip goes on)
-the taste of iodine and floaties just aren't a big deal

After two weeks of endless climbing, getting soaked by thunderheads, and sleep deprivation are you really gonna want to spend 20 minutes squeezing out a couple liters?


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

ionsmuse said:


> Why I've never owned a filter and don't plan to:
> -heavy
> -bulky
> -expensive
> ...


Hard to argue with these points.....points that have all crossed my mind.  Thanks.


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## kentsbike (Nov 9, 2004)

*I was a no-filter guy and lived to tell the tale*



ionsmuse said:


> -the taste of iodine and floaties just aren't a big deal


Yeah, I'm another no-filter guy but I prefer the Chlorine-Dioxide tablets. I wasn't keen on having 3 weeks worth of iodine build up in my system.

Kent "Mountain Turtle" Peterson
Issaquah WA USA


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

kentsbike said:


> Yeah, I'm another no-filter guy but I prefer the Chlorine-Dioxide tablets. I wasn't keen on having 3 weeks worth of iodine build up in my system.
> 
> Kent "Mountain Turtle" Peterson
> Issaquah WA USA


Do a lot of you guys do NO purification at all, or use tablets instead of a filter.

From what I understand, the tablets require you to wait a long time...


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## kentsbike (Nov 9, 2004)

*Bottle rotation is the key*



sizlinseagulsoup said:


> Do a lot of you guys do NO purification at all, or use tablets instead of a filter.
> 
> From what I understand, the tablets require you to wait a long time...


I use multiple water bottles instead of a Camelbak. Basically it's one tablet per one liter bottle. If I'm going by water and I have a bottle that is empty or that I can drink the remaining contents of, I stop fill the bottle, drop in a tablet and go. But that bottle is then the bottle I'll drink last. I'll be drinking from a bottle that probably had it's purification tablet dropped in hours ago. In the dry country, I had as many as seven liters I added Gatorade or IceTea bottles to the original 4 liter bottles I had in MT and ID. You'll want to run heavy for the section across the Basin and the NM stuff.

It's no big deal to keep track of which bottle has the oldest water and the fill, drop a tablet & go is faster than sitting around running a filter.

Kent "Mountain Turtle" Peterson
Issaquah WA USA


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## normZurawski (Mar 30, 2006)

Possibly stupid sounding but, IMO, practical question. How do you get the water into the bottle without getting it on your hands and/or outside the bottle?


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## kentsbike (Nov 9, 2004)

*It's just water!*



normZurawski said:


> Possibly stupid sounding but, IMO, practical question. How do you get the water into the bottle without getting it on your hands and/or outside the bottle?


Hey it's just water, not toxic waste or battery acid! I would pretty much plunge a bottle into a stream or stock tank or trickle or whatever. So what if the outside of the bottle or my hand get a little grungy? If you wanted to be precise, you could have a cup or something that you just use for untreated water and use that to fill your bottles. If the water was really grungy I would do something like that and use a bandana as a filter for the big chunks.

Kent "Mountain Turtle" Peterson
Issaquah WA USA


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## normZurawski (Mar 30, 2006)

kentsbike said:


> Hey it's just water, not toxic waste or battery acid! I would pretty much plunge a bottle into a stream or stock tank or trickle or whatever. So what if the outside of the bottle or my hand get a little grungy? If you wanted to be precise, you could have a cup or something that you just use for untreated water and use that to fill your bottles. If the water was really grungy I would do something like that and use a bandana as a filter for the big chunks.
> 
> Kent "Mountain Turtle" Peterson
> Issaquah WA USA


But the idea is to not ingest any of the bacteria. If you filter the water but have the "bad water" on your hands and the outside of the bottle, then filtering doesn't really buy you anything. You're still going to end up doubled over in a few miles. This was the general idea behind something I read years ago basically saying filtering was a waste 99% of the time because if you come across contaminated water you're sunk regardless.


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## bombsquad (Oct 7, 2006)

*water*

so my question is, what backpack are people using for the trip.

I've been looking at different ones from patagonia and hydrapak and have tried them on and felt like a fool walking around the store with them stuffed for 30 min. What I currently own is a little too small for this trip, either that or waaay to big.

my concerns are pack volume.

resivor carry capacity. The patagonia ones only have 1.5 liter capacity, but do have pockets on the side for extra bottles, which would be nice... I can keep the bladder filled with clean water and still have some gin and juice in the pocket.

Needs to be comfortable ovbiously

let me know.

I have used a couple different filters over time and the current no fuss filter of choice is an msr one http://www.msrcorp.com/filters/

bottle screws into filter has a cord thingy that sits in water... has served me fine. I could see pouring bottle into bladder or other bottles... a nalgene screws into the filter no worries with spilling.

on argument of needing a filter? I'm scared to go without. I'm not gonna challenge any sort of record so I'd rather not be stuck leaning against a tree wishing for more toilet paper.

this http://www.msrcorp.com/filters/sweet_viralstop.asp

looks intersting... but it says recomended for use with filter... whoa I've never used drops with the filter. It says it crushes 99.9% of the **** that makes you feel nasty and I'm certain it won't taste worse than the tap water here in SOCAL!


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

Are you guys so confident in your physical strength that you seriosly find the energy to worry about microbiotics and cell phones? I'm not being a smart-ass, seriously all I worry about is can my legs and my mind do this? I realize gear is important but I bet Kent Peterson could stop at Wal-Mart in Kalispell and buy a huffy and still kick my ass. long and short..... I don't know if I'm over training, undertraining, or even in the leauge to do this, so I'm not even thinking about anything else.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

nathan bay said:


> I don't know if I'm over training, undertraining, or even in the leauge to do this, so I'm not even thinking about anything else.


Cool, hear I am flaoting down the river in this boat and I look over and theres Nathan sitting next to me! LOL!!
HA,

This is a pretty big race for 90% of the entrants. This year you have a bunch of people that have entered the race because they have fallen in love with it, I would hazard a guess that most of the racers this year have never raced more than 24 hour races. Myself included.

I think your gonna find, unlike last year, as the race nears, we all start getting a little more stressed and start asking even more crazy questions....human nature. Well, for us newbies that is.

As for the hydro pack questions earlier, I have been using a big ass camel back for years, but after several hours, my back hurts, so I am switching this year to a "Wingnut"...google them and think about it...also, I have three water bottle mounts.

Im gonna try real hard not to run out of water!

As for the filters, I will use drops, and common sense, but I have been drinking shite water for years so I might be ok. Also, a disadvantage for most georgians, we have super heavily chlorinated water so anything from anywhere but here tastes wierd to us.

Peace and grease
Hodge
www.addictivecycles.com
cell 6785767400


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

You are definitely going to want to be able to carry 300 fluid ounces at some points. I had a couple of flexible cantenes in my panniers that I could fill up for reserves in more arid sections

http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/store/detail.aspx?ID=86

Of course, Nalgene is not your only choice.

ALSO - I'm starting to consider not bringing my filter now. I have a really good one that can fill up a standard biking bottle in about 20 seconds, however, I'm starting to think more about space and weight. I'm liking the idea of doing this more bare-bones more and more...


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

Also, where is everyone starting from? It would be cool to ride up to the border in a group from Kalispell. (I'm still waiting for my passport to come in the mail, so Banff is probably not happening for me this year :-/ )

Dave N? John N? When are you guys getting into Kalispell? It would be nice to ride with some old friends...


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

sizlinseagulsoup said:


> Also, where is everyone starting from? It would be cool to ride up to the border in a group from Kalispell. (I'm still waiting for my passport to come in the mail, so Banff is probably not happening for me this year :-/ )
> 
> Dave N? John N? When are you guys getting into Kalispell? It would be nice to ride with some old friends...


Still not super sure whats up.... may be driving with pete and picking jay up in wo....

or grey hound to whitefish again blah!


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

I cannot find any cheap flights into Kalispell, whereas I could get into Denver for 99 bucks. If you guys have extra room for a road trip, I would in interested... (plus, I would be saving well over 250 bucks on a plane ticket, I think I could toss in some gas money  )


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Dave

I'll get in touch with you guys once I'm over finals in a week or so. We can start to seriously plan this, see what the costs will be and how much room we'll have and all that.
I'd still be up for doing a rental, splitting costs if it is substantially cheaper. I imagine 3 might be the limit for that due to space, but we can figure it out later.
Haven't heard from Jay P for a while. Anybody have his email?


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## fpecorp (Feb 22, 2006)

*getting there*

Kevin,

I will be riding from Whitefish to Eureka sometime on Thursday, probably mid-day (assuming my flight gets into Kalispell on Wednesday evening as planned).

jn


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

jav1231 said:


> Ah! Cool. I'm stoked, though not racing. Looking forward to meeting everyone. Do we have a list or is someone maintaining a list of prospective racers?


Joe, This is the list so far, from the other thread....its freakin crazy how many people are on itt right now. Un freaken believable!

And the roster so far :

Scott Hodge 
Matt Lee
Matt McFee
Bruce Dinsmore
Jay Petervay
Dave Nice
Carl Hutchings
Matt Kemp
Andy Buchanan
Brett Young
Pete Basinger
John Nobile
Kevin Montgomery
Alex Field
Mystery Racer
Randy Mason
Steve Wilkinson 
Alan Goldsmith
Josh Ficke
Nathan Bay
Dominik Scherer

21 racers!

Still no idea on the mystery racer...if eatough shows up, Im runnin over his butt with your truck! LOL! although it's highly unlikely. I think even though this race has been pretty big to some of us for a couple years, aparently it's still way way low on the radar to most pros...which is a good thing right? it makes sense though, no prizes, no cash, no tangible rewards. I hope it stays that way.

In all reality, I doubt any pro's would do it. Most race to win income, or sponsors,, and sponsors prolly arent all that happy about a pro taken 3 weeks off in the busiest part of the season to race for grins!

Later
Hodge
cell678-576-7400
www.addictivecycles.com


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

hey Bossman, do you think it would be possible to get the racers state next to their name?

That would help with some carpooling or just communicating, or hooking up for beers if we are close by...or if it's a stupid request just say so and Ill delete this bad boy!

later
Hodge


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Hodge
I think the most effective means for communicating with people on here is to PM them or ask them to PM you.
I have a few email addresses I'll try to round up for you.

Where and when specifically are you trying to organize a carpool from?


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Well, Joe polk and I are driving up from GA. If we take his big truck, which will be more comfy, but get worse gas mileage, splitting gas 3 ways is better than 2 ways...I was just trying to figure out who is racing from some nearby states.

I dont think I use the PM thing right, I have tried to PM several people in the past couple months but I dont think they are getting them. It could be either I smell or am retarded, thats why. Either way, I thought states would be a good idea, but I dont want ot hassle anyone for more work than they already have...no worries.

peace and grease

Hodge
6785767400
www.addictivecycles.com


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

well, two down, back to 19 starters. Dominik Scherer and Carl Hutchings have bailed.

Hope you guys are ok. I have started using Elite droplets for electrolytes, anyone have experience with these?? 
Thanks
Hodge
cell 678-576-7400
www.addictivecycles.com


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

FYI: I've put up a roster page here. I will try to track changes. If anyone notices a change not represented please contact me at joe.polkATmtbcast.com.


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

I have the apparently waterproof maps. How waterproof are they? Can water get in through the folds and make them unreadable?


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

afie said:


> I have the apparently waterproof maps. How waterproof are they? Can water get in through the folds and make them unreadable?


They are plastic no way for water to mess them up 

Wouldn't use them for a ground sheet but short of that you should be good to go


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## bombsquad (Oct 7, 2006)

*S#hit*

It rains on this ride? I'f fubared where do you buy anti rain juju?


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

Just got my ticket. I'll be flying into Kalispell on the 12th. Should be landing just shortly after noon.

If anyone is interested in riding up to the border from Whitefish either Wednesday or Thursday morning, let me know. I'll be camping at the Whitefish Lake Recreation Area (I stayed there last year, it's pretty nice outside of the train that rolls through every night)


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

*Recommendation for Bike*

My plans for doing the GDR are firming up and as someone suggested I did a weekend trip to test my gear. I was planning on riding my Cyclocross bike (Felt F1X), but things didn't turn out so well. Usually I can master all but the most extreme dirt roads with a 34-27 gear ratio. But a sequence of climbs with a total 5000 feet, an average of 10% grades with sections well above the average and a fully loaded bike was really pushing the limit - I was in really bad shape the next day.
The lake of suspensions and the lousy brakes also made me feel uncomfortable and slow on the downhill.
Not experiences I would like to repeat at the GDR. So I think it's time to bite the bullet and buy a mountain bike.
So I was checking out some 29" models: the single arm fork of the Cannondale is it a little too much for me, but the the Gary Fisher X-Caliber looked fine. But as I never shopped for a mountain bike I'm not sure what to look for. So any recommendation, specifically on


29 vs 26
hardtail vs full (how would full suspension work with a rack?)
if hardtail, suspension seatpost? If yes, which one?
hydraulic vs mechanical brakes
what to look for when you prefer low maintenance

Thanks,

Andreas


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

Not sure but most likely i'll be headed to whitefish on wends or Thursday... and riding up to Eureka same day.... Riding on 93 and maybe some of the dirt along the way =)

Its really hard to beat a $140 bus ticket and know the bike is on the bus with me.....


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

CyclingCa said:


> 29 vs 26
> hardtail vs full (how would full suspension work with a rack?)
> if hardtail, suspension seatpost? If yes, which one?
> hydraulic vs mechanical brakes
> ...


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## Pente (Apr 21, 2007)

CyclingCa said:


> So I was checking out some 29" models: the single arm fork of the Cannondale is it a little too much for me, but the the Gary Fisher X-Caliber looked fine. But as I never shopped for a mountain bike I'm not sure what to look for.


I rode (not raced) the divide on an x-caliber last year. The 29er was definitely an advantage on the washboard sections. Hardtail is good, for weight and durability. The only change I made to the factory setup was to swap out the seat. Looks like the new ones have a different part spec though -- disc brakes and a different shock -- so it might not be a great comparison.

I'd go along with afie on the rest of it -- especially that if you have a bike you're comfortable with now it might be better to give yourself a bigger granny gear than try to put together a completely new setup now. I don't know if you'd be able to add discs, but maybe you can beef up the caliper brakes somehow. The x-caliber I had had calipers and it stopped me fine, and I'm 180 lbs and was carrying another 30. (The pads had to be replaced before the end but that's it--wore them right down to nothing.)


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

afie said:


> What about keeping the cross bike and get a new cassette, mtb cranks and chain. XT 11-34, LX 22/32/44 and xtr chain should be about $150. You wouldnt have to adjust to new position/feel.


I thought about this, too. But seems too much hassle and doesn't solve my downhill issues. I rented a mountain bike in Hawaii a few month ago and the down hill speed and comfort was so much better to what I experienced last weekend on the crosser.


afie said:


> Almost all have raced with 29"- check the 29'ers forum for all the advantages.


I did some reading up on 29ers and realized that's pretty much was I was riding when I was young and could only effort one bike. They were called hybrids and featured steel frames, 700 rims, 35 - 40 tires and mountain bike gearing. Had a lot of fun with it riding in around Berlin, Madrid, Montreal (with baby seat) and the Australian Outback. So I'm just extending my legacy.


afie said:


> Hardtails are lighter, and less things can go wrong.


I like that.


afie said:


> For low maintenance gear ...


What's your take on Avid Juicy 7 Hydraulic Disc Brakes vs. Avid BB7 mechanical disc?

Thanks,

Andreas


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

My rec. would be some new 29er hardtail with disc brakes. Off the shelf at around 1500 there are several options that would do great for the GDR. Better get it figured out soon and putting some miles on it if you're to be ready for June 15.
Oh and BB7s.


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

No doubt!!! more inquiries like that and my confidence will be through the roof...man I had no idea how ready I was....


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

*Ride and confidence*



> My rec. would be some new 29er hardtail with disc brakes. Off the shelf at around 1500 there are several options that would do great for the GDR. Better get it figured out soon and putting some miles on it if you're to be ready for June 15.
> Oh and BB7s.


That's what I thought - thanks for confirming. Shouldn't be a problem to get a ride in time as GDR stands these days for Great Divide Race and not for German Democratic Republic aka Eastern Germany where I grew up. Back there and then it took usually a year to get a new bike. I remember that I couldn't ride one summer because I couldn't get new tires. Viva la market economy!


> No doubt!!! more inquiries like that and my confidence will be through the roof...man I had no idea how ready I was....


Right where I wanna have my competition: over confident, but still with doubt: didn't you post the comment about the Huffy the other day?

But I'm not coming to compete. I'm just coming for the ride and it seems so much easier following the tracks of the field then to do the navigation all by myself. I hope I can finish before my vacation days run out (no panic - luckily I have more than two weeks).

See you all in a few weeks,

Andreas


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

CyclingCa said:


> That's what I thought - thanks for confirming. Shouldn't be a problem to get a ride in time as GDR stands these days for Great Divide Race and not for German Democratic Republic aka Eastern Germany where I grew up. Back there and then it took usually a year to get a new bike. I remember that I couldn't ride one summer because I couldn't get new tires. Viva la market economy!


I think we found the mystery rider...

Jan? Is that you?


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

afie said:


> I think we found the mystery rider...
> 
> Jan? Is that you?


No, not quite, but Jan and I used to race when we were kids. Beat him all the time. But the blue pill / red pill game wasn't for me and so I decided to move on and joined the chess club, they had the cuter girls anyway.


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

i'm trying to figure out how to attach a stinkin' photo to display my preparedness, anyone know how to use computers?


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

*photo attachment*

click the picture icon and enter the URL of your photo, most likely you have to put your photo on an external site (photo site such as photo bucket, flickr, etc, or your own).

As an example, the image below showing my preparedness in one of the early season races (1902, I'm the guy sitting in the ditch)


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

Im the guy on the left. I cant lower the bar any more.


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

I cant figure the photo thing out, its okay I think andraes was funnier anyhow. Afie is this still all you can think about? It's driving me crazy, it's allowing me a max of 6 hrs sleep at night, sometimes in 2 sessions. I've also dumped a fair ammount of cash into things that just aren't going to work, oh well..better to know that now than on june 19th...peace...NB


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

Photos from a website or from your computer. Keep them as small as you can.


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

nathan bay said:


> Afie is this still all you can think about? It's driving me crazy, it's allowing me a max of 6 hrs sleep at night, sometimes in 2 sessions. I've also dumped a fair ammount of cash into things that just aren't going to work, oh well..better to know that now than on june 19th...peace...NB


Two sessions of sleep?

I have been getting about 2 hours for the past week with two uni thesis' to do.

What things have you lost money on? I had to get a new rack, but apart from that my gear is on track.

Also, do you mean June 15th?


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

No,I mean better to realize what gear is no good now on training rides rather than trying to work the kinks out 4 days in...I got a seatpost mounted rack, and a trunkbag for it, it doesn't hold much, also my the sleeping bag I got is too large, its not heavy its bulky. A friend gave me some saddle bags today I loaded em' up but haven't ridden yet. Schools out here in Montana so today was my first day of being unemployed (dining hall cook) lunch lady man...good luck finishing up.....oh yeah I got a new wheelset and BB the wheelset came with a 14 tooth cog, fun for the valley floor, but thats it...


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## Hezz (Apr 30, 2006)

Nathan,

I have been building up a dual suspension GDR bike for a while. I'm really too old and unfit to race but I would like to do a fast ultralight tour of the GDR in comfort some time in the future.

I have been experimenting with different loading options that might help you. I to have a large though light sleeping bag. Because it's synthetic it doesn't stuff down very small. But it is warm and only weights about 3 pounds.

I also have a seat post rack. A few years ago one of the GDR riders used a seat post rack and it snapped. So I think the load should be kept below 5 pounds even though it is rated at 15 or 20. Also, make sure your backpack has places to lash the rack load onto it if the rack should break. This way you can carry it one your back until you get it fixed.

The thing I did that worked pretty well is to dispense with the trunk bag altogether. They are too heavy and not enough room to be of much use.

Get a small stuff sack to put your tent/bivy in. and shove it down inside the sleeping bag sack with the bag inside. Then lash this to the seat post rack as far forward as possible to reduce bending leverages on the rack. And to keep the center of gravity as far forward as possible.

Next if you use a sleeping pad get the lightest you can live with. The closed cell foam ones are the lightest but the bulkiest. However, they can be lashed to the handlebars and since they only weight a few ounces it works pretty well.

Put necessities in a small handlebar bag or frame bag and your backpack. My advice is to try and keep the backpack below 12 pounds if you can to reduce butt fatigue.

This system works pretty well for carrying 20 pounds or less total. Which is about what you want. If you can get everything down to 15 pounds that will be even better.


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

you hit the nail on the head, I ditched the trunk bag idea. I rode for 2 hrs with a full load today, it felt pretty good,I would like to move more weight to the front though. I'm using a "wing nut" hydration pack and I instinctivly keep loosening it until its sitting on the sleeping back on the rack,which is awesome but I dont want to push it on the weight. thanks for the advice...peace....NB


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

*Tracking Competitors Progress on Google Maps*

I remember that there was a discussion about tracking competitors' progress, potentially with electronic devices, a few weeks ago.

Here's a low tech alternative: Google maps offers as a few month ago a new feature "My Maps" which allows for easy annotation of Google maps. With that, one could have little markers for each competitor and move them ahead as they phone in their progress. I put together a little sample:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U....001844,-115.05681&spn=0.037445,0.090637&z=14

Click on the green bike for rider details. The icon can be easily moved to a new position (by the owner of the map).

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Andreas

PS: Google maps are pretty lousy, but the annotation user interface is useful and easy to use. I also put together a map with an (optimistic) 20 day schedule: http://home.pacbell.net/hillmann/GreatDivide/20DaySchedule.html


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## The Sage (Dec 1, 2004)

*DH on the move!*

I was just driving by Zia (Dgo) a few minutes ago and noticed a bike in the back of a truck that had all this crap attached to it. I knew right away it was Dave Harris. I stopped in to say good luck and of course give him **** for the 6 H20 mounts he had rigged up. 2 on the fork legs, 2 on the seat posts and the other 2 traditional spots. "I can carry 150 oz on my bike," he said. "I hope your taking more than that taco and a few stale chips," I said...Which he replied..."I've got 25,000 calories in my back pack" You go Boy!


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

nathan bay said:


> you hit the nail on the head, I ditched the trunk bag idea. I rode for 2 hrs with a full load today, it felt pretty good,I would like to move more weight to the front though. I'm using a "wing nut" hydration pack and I instinctivly keep loosening it until its sitting on the sleeping back on the rack,which is awesome but I dont want to push it on the weight. thanks for the advice...peace....NB


Speaking of moving weight to the front, I was thinking of putting a couple of water bottle cages on the handle bar, like they used to do it in the good old days:








But I couldn't find any product of the modern day era with the exception of a bottle to stick between aero bars (which seem to be a little overkill for the GDR).
Has anybody any ideas about getting such cage mounts?

Thanks,

Andreas


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

I'm not sure about the bars, but I've got some cages hanging on the fork with hose clamps. I think I need to rubberize them though. so maybe you could fashion something using similar modern marvels of technology...peace....NB.....


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## kkjellquist (Oct 31, 2006)

Minoura makes a seatpost bottle cage clamp which I believe can be mounted on a horizontal or vertical post/bar/tube.


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

kkjellquist said:


> Minoura makes a seatpost bottle cage clamp which I believe can be mounted on a horizontal or vertical post/bar/tube.


Minoura got a whole set of cage holders, see https://www.minoura.co.jp/acc-e.html
just ordered a couple of BH 60








this gives me 4x1l in bottles plus 3l in a camelback, this should be good enough for a day.

Thanks for the tip

Andreas


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

pbasinger said:


> This Marathon XR could be the ticket. Pretty heavy though, but I'd take the added weight over stopping for flats all the time.
> 
> Scott and Matt,
> what have you guys used?
> I love the Nano Raptor, but seemed like I was patching tears in the thing everyday the last GDR.


So now that I have the new bike (X-Caliber) and ordered a new rack, my final bike question is about the tires:
The X-Caliber comes with Bontrager Joines XR 2.25 in the front and a WTB Nano Raptor 2.1 in the back. When I was doing some riding on the road earlier today I was somewhat pleasantly surprised about the relatively low rolling resistance.

I got also got a couple on Schwalbe Marathon XR 700 x 35 from the Fatherland which are praised for their toughness (a quality I appreciate very much). 


I suppose ultimate grip is a tire quality of less importance at the GDR. So I would think the deciding factors would be:

Cushiness (air volume)
Puncture resistance
Rolling resistance
So what tires should I put on? Marathon XR or 2.x stock tires?
Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks,

Andreas


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

*Addition to roster*



velomech said:


> Joe, This is the list so far, from the other thread....its freakin crazy how many people are on itt right now. Un freaken believable!
> 
> And the roster so far :
> 
> ...


Now that I have a new bike, vacation days approved and a ticket to Kalispell, I think I'm ready to have my name added to the roster:

Andreas Vogel, San Francisco, CA​


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## Rich007 (Oct 20, 2004)

I won't be able to join you guys due to time conflicts this year. But I'll 'tour'/scout the MT to CO segment this year in July/August later this year with my eyes on the 2008 edition. I had been thinking about GDR since 2004. It's time to put on my schedule

BTW, this is an amazing thread. Keep the comments coming... Great way to learn more of how to prepare.


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

Starting June 7, *United *will be flying direct into Kalispell from Denver. I'm not sure of the cost, but I'm looking to fly my wife and kids up there soon so she can see her mom and dad. My In-Laws live in Bigfork, MT and we have had to fly DEN to SLC, then SLC to Kalispell in the past. It's an expensive ticket that way. It's a crazy long 15 hour trip from Fort Collins, CO and worth the $$$ when factor in 2 small kids, 2 hotel nights, LOTS of gas, food, etc. We've hit headwinds in WY and MT that make you cry the following month after getting the gas credit card bill.

Anyway, I was just cruising this thread and thought any CO people might be intersted in this. 
Brett


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*mmm bigfork*

consider yourself lucky to have even in-laws in an outdoor paradise like bigfork/swan river. the swan range just to bigfork's east has an epic crest trail 90-something mi. long, all 1/4 to half track with some wide enough to call singletrack. super rugged, unrivaled scenery into the bob (marshall). big climbs. big descents. its called alpine no. 7. someday there needs to be an unofficial end to end race on it. a local hammer holds the record at 17 hours so you know its full contact.

good news on the added flight.


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

mathewsen said:


> consider yourself lucky to have even in-laws in an outdoor paradise like bigfork/swan river. the swan range just to bigfork's east has an epic crest trail 90-something mi. long, all 1/4 to half track with some wide enough to call singletrack. super rugged, unrivaled scenery into the bob (marshall). big climbs. big descents..


Yes, I know these areas very well. From my in-laws place in Bigfork, I can do some epic rides from their house. For those that have never been up to this area and are dreaming about doing this race, here is a pic of what this singletrack looks like for miles and miles and miles. You ride this area and it you feel like you are in some type of enchanted land. The singletrack is so narrow and loose in spots, like below. I took this a few years back just east of Bigfork, I think it's from Jewel Basin area if memeory serves.

Anyway, what I typically do is send the wife and kids up in the plane one way, for a week, then I drive up with my mtn and road bikes for a week to play, then all drive back to CO together. Simply beautiful starting now (June), but the winters are long, gloomy, and too cold for me to live year round.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

i hope you were hiking when you snapped that wilderness area pic! 

yeah, i tried to solo bike/hike all of no. 7 in 1 day last august and got skunked for a number of logistical reasons. first of which, it might be the hardest long-distance trail i've ever ridden. i would call it a hyper-technical alpine crest version of crested butte. and, um, there's that mentionable thickness of grizzly bears.

riding south to north there is a downhill bypass around jewel basin wilderness that drops to swan lake called "broken leg". its a sustained 10 mile sidehill singletrack downhill that will rip your arms off.

i dare say it would be the hardest off-road century in the country. i think we could get glacier cyclery of whitefish to shuttle a small field to the southern terminus in one of their tour vans. the northern end drops out over the course of 30-something switchbacks to an a&w in columbia falls nr the w entrance to glacier NP. a root beer float ending would be almost perfect. 

race or no, this is one for every hairball endurance junky to notch.

*faintly detectable on the distant hillsides of the first 2 pics is silk-ribbony trail. it goes from that extreme to the latter pics --miles of rocky stuff. one thing's for sure its a rooftop trail w/ unlimited visibility.


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## pd406 (May 14, 2006)

*carrying your gear*

I have read number of different methods of carrying your gear in this thread. Does anyone use a trailer to do this race? If 90% or so is on the road, why not?


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

pd406 said:


> I have read number of different methods of carrying your gear in this thread. Does anyone use a trailer to do this race? If 90% or so is on the road, why not?


Yeah its dirt roads though....

your adding complexity to your setup..... Might use one if I was going slower and not as worryied about speed....

+ trailers handle very funky of tech desents!


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

Yea, that was a hike day. We got to the top and was blown away by the view and singletrack. The camera was a crappy 2.1megapixel so doesn't do it justice. You know the spot well and _just_ to the right in the pic is a nice view of the Flathead Valley. I wish I had pics of some rides but I couldn't seem to find any.

I'll be back up in August for probably a week and will be bringing my bike with me for sure. We have really good friends moving up to Columbia Falls at the end of the week so now we have even more reason to go up more often. I'll just be coming off of the Laramie Range Enduro (111K) at the end of July - so not the shape you are in but I shouldn't be _too_ slow.


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

I personally found that I couldn't carry enough gear to justify a trailer. The point of this is light + fast. If I were planning on spending 2-3 months out there, not trying to cover 140 miles a day, well, that'd be a different story.


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Taking a trailer adds a crzy amount of wieght. It puts the wight in a better spot, but doing that, you have to justify moving 18- lbs and adding 15.

As for updates, well, I damaged my IT band four weeks ago. To take it easy on that, I stopped riding, Then I tore my achiles tendon. Sice I was off the bike it heeled pretty quick I think, we'll see. Lasdt week I damaged my ACL. Things arent looking good.

Menally I pretty disappointed wiht how this is going. I have been setting up for a year to do this, injury free for the last decade, now, three injuries hit me one month before the race. It's unfair. Im getting pissy... I know, just an update...

Later
Hodge
www.addictivecycles.com


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*columbia falls is up/coming*



2melow said:


> Yea, that was a hike day. We got to the top and was blown away by the view and singletrack. The camera was a crappy 2.1megapixel so doesn't do it justice. You know the spot well and _just_ to the right in the pic is a nice view of the Flathead Valley. I wish I had pics of some rides but I couldn't seem to find any.
> 
> I'll be back up in August for probably a week and will be bringing my bike with me for sure. We have really good friends moving up to Columbia Falls at the end of the week so now we have even more reason to go up more often. I'll just be coming off of the Laramie Range Enduro (111K) at the end of July - so not the shape you are in but I shouldn't be _too_ slow.


Melow,
i realize this isn't gdr stuff but the gdr passes within 1/4 mi of trail and this is decent exposure.

we should be in cahoots on an alpine trail race, esp. if august is your usual month to be up. the first or second weekend in august is a good time for something. maybe next year? there's some trail clearing to be done to bridge the 6 mile "missing link" between the southern and northern ends. whitefish locals are down with helping out.

in your opinion, could this attract enduro nuts from as far away as colorado? i guess that direct flight to k-spell might help. maybe we should construct a seed thread here, post pics, double-dares. i know ed ellinger is game. i know gary blakely from del norte will nut-up...and dave nice will try anything!

i don't suppose you would have room for me on that drive up in august from denver? if i stay healthy i hope to be finishing the CTR first of august. i would change my flight home to NC for a chance to ride no. 7 again.


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

CyclingCa said:


> I remember that there was a discussion about tracking competitors' progress, potentially with electronic devices, a few weeks ago.
> 
> Here's a low tech alternative: Google maps offers as a few month ago a new feature "My Maps" which allows for easy annotation of Google maps. With that, one could have little markers for each competitor and move them ahead as they phone in their progress. I put together a little sample:
> 
> ...


Over the weekend I updated the map by adding an approximation of the complete route to it. I also checked out the complete route on Virtual Earth and found this very educational. From what seemed to be confusing on the map and itinerary became pretty straight forward on the three dimensional photo maps.


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## TomP (Jan 12, 2004)

CyclingCa said:


> I remember that there was a discussion about tracking competitors' progress, potentially with electronic devices, a few weeks ago.
> 
> Here's a low tech alternative: Google maps offers as a few month ago a new feature "My Maps" which allows for easy annotation of Google maps. With that, one could have little markers for each competitor and move them ahead as they phone in their progress...


Yep, I'd been thinking about that. I believe that coverage of the '05 race included some internet map marking.

I have a co-worker who has been cramping his hands and straining his eyes becoming a google earth expert (fanatic) for the last couple months. I'm thinking that setting up something like this will be child's play for him.

Stay tuned. We have, what, 18 days or so before there are markers to move?


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## GDR Film Crew (May 30, 2007)

*GDR documentary 2007*

Call to all GDR competitors and enthusiasts!

My name is Rob Gomez and I work as a camera-director in England. I have the great honour of shooting a documentary on this year's GDMBR with a small camera crew.

The production is a micro-budget film that is solely-financed by Gerald Wisden of Wisden Films in the UK and will eventually be shown at several documentary festivals around the world. THIS IS NOT 'REALITY TV'. This film will show the blood, sweat and tears of it all; a human interest story that has no monetary reward; and show the triumphs and disappointments that the human spirit experiences.

I would like as many people as possible to contribute during filming, in any way they see fit: opinions, views, emotions ... even tantrums! For those of you who would like to get involved, in whatever capacity, please post on this forum or alternatively email me on:

[email protected]

For those who'd prefer not to get involved, we totally respect your right to anonymity and will avoid interrupting your privacy during the race.

Many thanks, Rob.


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

GDR Film Crew said:


> My name is Rob Gomez and I work as a camera-director in England. I have the great honour of shooting a documentary on this year's GDMBR with a small camera crew.


Sweet. Shoot away, but I am not sure you will be able to get anything coherent out of me.

What are the chances of getting our hands on the finished product?


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Wow. That is cool. 

Thats gonna bring some attention to this race for sure. Thanks Rob and crew.

See you on the 15th
Hodge


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

Yeah, I'm jacked about this film! Looking forward to meeting the crew.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

GDR Film Crew said:


> Call to all GDR competitors and enthusiasts!
> 
> My name is Rob Gomez and I work as a camera-director in England. I have the great honour of shooting a documentary on this year's GDMBR with a small camera crew.
> 
> ...


Well I hope there isn't too many trantrums....

Cool well your welcome to shoot me as much as you would like =)

~Dave Nice


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Im having flashbacks of 24 solo, only we'll be on film, waking up , getting on a bike after day three of some crazy riding, saddlesores bigger than a golf ball, wincing, sweating, saliva dripping from our mouths climbing some insane ascent. Guy on a motorbike next us filming, dry, full from brkfast, enjoying the scenery....Is it cheating if you accidently hold on to the camera man going uphill if he's askin you a question??LOL!!

If not, I'll make all my answers slow and clear, and Ill ask him to repeat the questions several times each!

Cant wait.

Hodge
www.addictivecycles.com


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*it will be less glamourous than you might think*



velomech said:


> Im having flashbacks of 24 solo, only we'll be on film, waking up , getting on a bike after day three of some crazy riding, saddlesores bigger than a golf ball, wincing, sweating, saliva dripping from our mouths climbing some insane ascent. Guy on a motorbike next us filming, dry, full from brkfast, enjoying the scenery....Is it cheating if you accidently hold on to the camera man going uphill if he's askin you a question??LOL!!
> 
> If not, I'll make all my answers slow and clear, and Ill ask him to repeat the questions several times each!
> 
> ...


frankly i am a little skeptical that peeps are coming from across the pond and will know their way around enough to not impact the locals, the route and the racers in dubious ways.

the idea is worthy of documentation, it just seems either last minute or curiak has known about this and kept it under his hat. i am curious to hear what he has to say about it. maybe this explains the mystery racer.

all i have to say is they better invest in a motorcycle with a sidecar.


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

mathewsen said:


> frankly i am a little skeptical that peeps are coming from across the pond and will know their way around enough to not impact the locals, the route and the racers in dubious ways.


15 minutes of fame for three weeks of pain - hard to argue against it


mathewsen said:


> the idea is worthy of documentation, it just seems either last minute or curiak has known about this and kept it under his hat. i am curious to hear what he has to say about it. maybe this explains the mystery racer.
> 
> all i have to say is they better invest in a motorcycle with a sidecar.


I thought Rob is the mystery rider going back and forth through the field with his helmet camera (like Hans, check out DFL #3 race)

Rob, do we get invited to the pre-, post- and Oscar parties?

Andreas


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## BGR (Feb 23, 2007)

Please remove my name from the start list. While riding to the start from moab ive been fighting a tonsil infection that i cant seem to fully recover from. My immune system just isnt holding up to riding so many miles. Best of wishes to all of you in the race. 

Randy Mason


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

I've been conversing with Rob via email. However, I know little about the route other than covering it from afar. I've suggested a couple of contacts and of course he is talking to Mike. I think getting this on film is a great idea! I hope they can find their way around. I'll help any way I can't go the entire route.


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## Singlespeedpunk (Jan 6, 2004)

mathewsen said:


> frankly i am a little skeptical that peeps are coming from across the pond and will know their way around enough to not impact the locals, the route and the racers in dubious ways.


Not sure why Brits should have a problem navigating the route...the UK isn't *that* small 

As to impacting the locals, the route and the racers, well I guess a couple of guys with a motorbike/car and a camera won't make much difference to the area / route considering the number of people who ride the trail (in part of whole) each year.

If they respect the racers wishes to be / not be filmed and don't give any outside support I can't see it any different from chatting to other riders / trail users in past years.

I look forward to seeing their output,

Alex


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*i know i had trouble first year*



Singlespeedpunk said:


> Not sure why Brits should have a problem navigating the route...the UK isn't *that* small
> 
> As to impacting the locals, the route and the racers, well I guess a couple of guys with a motorbike/car and a camera won't make much difference to the area / route considering the number of people who ride the trail (in part of whole) each year.
> 
> ...


the route is not easy to follow. with all filming a doc entails, the details of reading cues (based on bicycle cyclometers, not motorcycles - we're assuming that's their choice of vehicle), it could get complicated. in one way or another (and i'm not taking a stance, just advocating for the devil), the purist might see a crew as "in the way".

my sense is that no matter who is filming a project like this they need a route expert sensitive to the nuance of the race experience to guide their moves, help them block out their scenes. everything really.

to do this well, tastefully is difficult and requires extensive knowledge of all things GDMBR.

in 1999 stamstad called off his film crew cuz they were messing up his experience, had trouble navigating and ended up complicating his ability to navigate free of assistance. i think the experience he recounted was them waiting, at times, at intersections which assisted him in knowing where the turns were.

i think something shot at the start, end and a couple key points in between where there will be no benefit or detriment to the racers is best. i also don't want to see them try to travel a rain swollen portion of the route and ruin the surface by rutting it out or get stuck themselves. and what about tire tracks? will they not assist in navigation somehow? its not without impact and is deserving of more discussion than the upcoming stressful 10days can afford us. my 20-20 hindsight would be, where was this notion 6 months ago? perhaps not funded yet, but its a touch late now to pop it on us. i hope it works out.

my vision for a doc was always something that spanned several years on course so as to have less impact and obtain the gamut of weather, locations and parity


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## Singlespeedpunk (Jan 6, 2004)

_I think something shot at the start, end and a couple key points in between where there will be no benefit or detriment to the racers is best. _​
I was thinking that that was about the only way you could do it. Catch the start for some bio on the racers, meet up with a few as they roll through town and maybe get some "on trail" footage before they hit the road into town / as they leave and then at the end for a de-brief.​
They can fill in the course terrain / back drops / background at later dates then edit it all together.

"there was no way to cover this event in any type of conventional sense..." Hunter S Thompson

:thumbsup:

Alex


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

Singlespeedpunk said:


> _I was thinking that that was about the only way you could do it. Alex_​


_

well, maybe i'm being a snob about it. a bare bones angle sounds more like channel five evening sports coverage than something artisitic. not that it should, but it won't win banff festival of mountain film awards unless it deals with what happens between towns when racers are alone and in the depths of whatever it is we go thru.

as with documentaries about many things like the GDR, recreations of actual experience may be the key to capturing truisms without ruining it for racers. isn't there a gainfully employable grizzly bear actor not working right now?

speaking of documentaries, let me take this moment to plug an awesome piece on the black bicycle brigade of MT (buffalo soldiers, as the native americans called them) that tamed some of the very dirt passes back in the 1880s the GDR travels now. it was a mission to prove to the US military that the bike was superior to the horse for travel for military regiments. these guys were complete animals and its quite humbling to watch their story. 50lb spaulding safety bikes, probably fixed gear, rifles and canvas tents in tow. simply an amazing story, really. we might consider them america's first off-roadies.

check out their set-ups...and their drop-style bars._​


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## jav1231 (May 30, 2005)

I would agree that it's going to be hard to be unobtrusive to the riders. This may very well be a situation where they have to film where they can. That said, I still think bringing some attention to this race is a good thing. I guess you always risk something becoming bigger than you thought and thereby becoming poisoned. OTOH, there are still many mtb'ers who turn their heads in confusion when you mention the GDR. (Hodge to Landis, for example). Whether or not more people try it, I think people should know about this race know about the incredible riders who attempt it, and know (at least in some small way) what it takes to attempt it. Above all, and I think this is your point Matthew, the race itself cannot be spoiled and that will take some respect to the race and riders.


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

Singlespeedpunk said:


> "there was no way to cover this event in any type of conventional sense..." Hunter S Thompson


Ha! You have compelled me to finally stick up an avatar.

Matt- they could film on the trail without giving an advantage to riders. I would imagine that they would use sealed roads quite a lot, taking an easier route than the trails, then cutting across to the trail every once in a while. A lot of the scenery could be shot in similar areas, the same areas after riders have passed, or the same scenery from different roads.


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

mathewsen said:


> the black bicycle brigade of MT[/URL] (buffalo soldiers, as the native americans called them) that tamed some of the very dirt passes back in the 1880s the GDR travels now. it was a mission to prove to the US military that the bike was superior to the horse for travel for military regiments. these guys were complete animals and its quite humbling to watch their story. 50lb spaulding safety bikes, probably fixed gear, rifles and canvas tents in tow. simply an amazing story, really. we might consider them america's first off-roadies.


Well, there was Thomas Stevens, the first to cross the continent on a bicycle in 1884 (and to continue around the world). We are going to cross his path in Wyoming I think.
Check out his bike:









And about the superiority of bicycle over horses you can read here:
https://home.pacbell.net/hillmann/CycloCrossCenturies/Misc/BicycleVsHorse.html
Joe Fischer was the key guy


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

Yeah, I think it isnt gonna be a big deal, they will prolly stay oout of our way and we will prolly stay outof theirs. I think it will be a positive thing, and I would hate to deter them from the opportunity. Knock it out mates!

If they are careful with there filming they will do fine.

Randy, sorry to here about your illness, see you next year.

Later
Hodge
www.addictivecycles.com

As for the Bicycle corps video, Mingo Sanders is a bad A$$! I bought that video from PBS a few years ago. Good stuff. When we were naming our SS frame, we were gonna call it the "Mingo Sanders" I recommend watching it.


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## bombsquad (Oct 7, 2006)

*hmmm*

Bicycle corps, Thats dope.

we should all ride singlespeed with 50lbs of gear and a couple of guns. LIke maruading bicycle pirates.

Oh wait I just realized I'm the only one that sees how that would be fun.


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

*sounds framiliar*

that sound about like my set up only todays modern technology allows lightweight glock 9mm ers, too bad the ammo is so heavy.


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

Not to open this can of worms again... 
http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/06/05/deported/

I'll refrain from editorializing


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## velomech (Dec 25, 2005)

sizlinseagulsoup said:


> Not to open this can of worms again...
> http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/06/05/deported/
> 
> I'll refrain from editorializing


"I say we take off ( eh!), nuke the site form orbit, it's the only way to be sure"

On a lighter note, I just got some updates from the man Lee Childress himself.

He stated that he is 1/3 the way through doing the GDR from mexico to canada, with his girlie. Here are some importante updates to make note of as he sees it.

On map 6A It refers to a old morter school house-church, their IS a huge water resevior there.

Also, on said map, there state that there is water @magna work center, Lee states otherwise. No water, it just a storage shed.

DO NOT DRINK THE TAP WATER IN PLATORO, a large group of people he was with got sick, as well as he and his girl.

MAP 6B between Mimbreseand pietown, there is NO CAMPSITE, the land is privately owned now, and the owner is a &^%%#.(thats a quote)

Between abiquou NM and Cuba NM, the map states there is no water but Lee states there is. Mile #195 has a resevior next to the private residences.

There is also a beaver pond at mile 20.

The map states that there is water in horse shoe springs, Lee stated otherwise. The only water he could find was in a stream down a cliff that was unmaginable.

In Abiquou there is a pizza place that is owned by very nice peoplel aware of the race that will offer assistance. Art Pizza Cafe.

The sporting goods store in Del Norte IS NOT OPEN ANY MORE. Dont count on it.

No bike shop between Salida and silver city.

In silver city, the gila hike and bike is open, and friendly. The twin sisters bike shop was never seen open.

At the Pioneer cafe, the owner Kathy, is nice and offers free showers to the GDR bikers-hikers.

In Pietown, there is a house refered to as the TOASTER HOUSE, because the front yard is full of em. We are allowed to sleep on the porch anytime, even if someone is not home. ALSO, ther is a hike-bike box, with extra stuff in it if needed. ALso, The cook at the daily pie cafe will give bikers stove fuel.

In Grants NM, on I-40 there is a walmart, and the usual stuff, but also, "Burnies Motorcycle Shop" which has a full machine shop, and the owner stated he will help biker with repairs and such, if needed.

Thats all Lee had to say, and wishes us all good luck. I would like to thank him for being courteous enough to give us a heads up. THANKS LEE!!!

DOt bother emailing me with more details about what I posted, I posted only what he said, and dont have any more detail than that, I hope it helps guys!

Later
Hodge


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*thanks for the updates*



velomech said:


> "On a lighter note, I just got some updates from the man Lee Childress himself.


NOTE:

all around summitville, platoro, CO the water runs off mtns that were labeled a superfund site by the feds. its totally contaminated. the books, maps say so. make sure you know these details, racers, or you'll be slowed a bit for sure.

btwn abiquiu and cuba DO NOT drink ground water. the maps say as much. its contaminated. that reservoir looks nice and inviting after coming off the polvadera mesa all wasted, but keep rolling until you get to cuba and buy jug water. yes, the horseshoe springs roadside spring just outside cuba WAS wonderful but they resurfaced the road and paved it in. bummer. the advice then, is to carry ALL your water up polvadera mesa from abiquiu. its part of what makes polvadera mesa so hard --not to mention the sand on the climb. the guidebook refers to this climb as "radical". do not underestimate the low average speed from abiquiu to cuba. you need LOTS of water.

many of Lee's water updates from the south will not be current by the time we get there. its part of why i see no point in carrying a water filter down south. water is contaminated -- or its simply not there to filter. carry it from town to town.


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## mathewsen (May 31, 2005)

*its a case of reverse nationalism*



sizlinseagulsoup said:


> Not to open this can of worms again...
> http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/06/05/deported/
> 
> I'll refrain from editorializing


bush likes to blame canada for sourcing all the terrorists that make it into the US so for now, esp. since the passport clampdown began in january, canada is hassling anyone from the US who has had a dui in the past 5yrs.

it won't last, though, as they are losing major tourism dollars and hurting relations. federal committees are meeting up there now to discuss how to deal with it. the border officers are taking their job a little too seriously.

it is ironic that the US is STILL the easiest place to enter. you would think the millions of dollars the feds make on the $125 passports now *required* to leave this country could be used to make us a bit safer.

welcome to the potential international travel reality of the future. thanks to bush for instilling the fear of allah in the western world.


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

*Pre-race activites*

So, how's everybody doing?

I continued preparation by spending last week lazily on the couch, resting my legs and building up my fat reserves. I also watched the grizzly bear documentary and felt a lot better about them afterwards. On the downside, I measured the system weight (me, my bike and my stuff) and almost fainted when I saw the reading: 250 pounds. But when I broke it down it didn't seem so unreasonable:
185 for me, 25 for the bike, 15 for liquids, this just leaves 25 for tent, sleeping bag, cloth, tools, rack, lights, pump etc.

Otherwise I'm anxious to get on the plane to Kalispell on Wednesday. I arrive there in the evening and stay in a motel near the airport. I plan on riding up to Eureka during Thursday.

If anybody is interested in hooking up for the ride to Eureka or dinner and a couple of beers in Eureka on Thursday, let me know. Best is via voice or text to 415 341 3438.

Cheers,

Andreas


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

*GDR Article*

Published today in the Albuquerque Journal.

*Monday, June 11, 2007
Mountain Bikers Compete in Ultimate Test
By Vince Kong
Journal Staff Writer
*
_ By the time the estimated 20 riders reach New Mexico, the field will be cut in half.
And it only gets worse from there, said Mike Curiak, organizer of the Great Divide Race, which begins Friday.
"We'll probably only have a few racers actually finish the race," he said. "A lot of them won't even make it out of Montana."
The world's longest nonstop mountain bicycle race will take competitors along the spine of the Rocky Mountains from near the Canadian border at Port of Roosville, Mont., to Antelope Wells in southern New Mexico for a 2,490-mile trek that, Curiak said, is not for the weak- in mind or body.
"It's not technically a mountain biking trail," he said. "The difficulty is in the fact that you are gaining huge amounts of vertical and gaining huge amounts of mileage every day with very little rest and even fewer amenities."
With top riders expected to complete the course in 20 days or less- last year's winner, Matthew Lee, who was also the lone finisher, completed the course in 17 days, 22 hours and 30 minutes- competitors must cover, on average, 150 miles per day, often riding into the night.
The race is so grueling that a rider who doesn't prepare adequately can wind up in some very serious trouble, Curiak said.
Kenny Maldonado can attest to that.
In last year's race, Maldonado- at one point the only racer left besides Lee from the seven-person field- was on the road for more than three weeks before he finally called it quits 916 miles from the start of the race in Rawlin, Wyo.
Curiak, who also holds the GDR record by winning the inaugural race in 2004 at 16 days and 57 minutes, has little sympathy for Maldonado.
"(Maldonado) didn't have a clue what he was getting into," he said. "He wasn't even close to halfway done at three weeks. I wouldn't even call him a racer- he was a misguided tourist."_

(This last quote is only semi-accurate--the words above are paraphrased from what I actually said. My quote was very general--I don't believe that I ever mentioned Kenny's name, nor did the reporter that I can remember. But the point that I was trying to make is valid--that there are several people every year that attempt the GDR without really grasping what they're getting into. And some of them really should be touring the route instead of 'racing' it. --MC)

_ Curiak said the ideal competitor is not just an avid cyclist, but a rider who can do it all.
"Cycling is such a small part of these races," he said. " ... Sleep deprivation is hugely important; route finding is hugely important; knowing how to do all the repairs on your bike is hugely important. All of these factors are infinitely more important than cycling ability."
By the time competitors reach New Mexico, they will have ridden through Montana, Wyoming and Colorado. Once the racers reach the Land of Enchantment- the leaders are expected to enter the state just outside of Chama about 11 days into the competition- they will travel 496 miles through Vallecitos, Abiquiu, Cuba, Grants, Pie Town and Silver City before reaching Antelope Wells.
And once they arrive at the finish line, they will be greeted with ... nothing.
"It is a bit anti-climactic," Curiak said.
The race has no prize money- and that's by choice.
"As long as I'm organizing this race, money will have no bearing whatsoever," he said. "I've turned away sponsors- this race is for the racer."
So who would want to compete in the GDR? Someone like- well, Curiak.
"I was burnt," he said. "I was on a road trip back from one of these 24-hour races with a high entry fee, and I thought, 'There are all these trails; all these roads to explore, and here we are spending thousands of dollars to ride around in circles in a town park.'
"I saw the light."
Curiak- who is also a two-time winner of the 1,100-mile Iditabike, a winter mountain bike race along the Iditarod trail from Alaska's Knik Lake to Nome- will be absent from this year's field. The 37-year-old, Grand Junction, Colo., resident's reason was simple.
"Once was enough for me," he said. "It's not a fun course."_


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## Morlahach (Nov 8, 2005)

Wow, them's some fighting words. 

I think that the draw for the less competitive riders in the GDR may be that, if you do it with 20 others, it is an event. Yes, you may be alone after 5 minutes of riding and on your own for the next 3 weeks, but at least you know that others are doing the same thing at the same time. 

Many people race RAAM with no intention of actually winning, they just want to officially complete it within the time cut. When I did Trans Iowa this spring I had no intention of winning, I just wanted to beat the course within the time limit and be an official finisher. I suspect that the GDR likely has similar people with similar ambitions. I find nothing wrong with these ambitions.


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

Morlahach said:


> Wow, them's some fighting words.
> 
> I think that the draw for the less competitive riders in the GDR may be that, if you do it with 20 others, it is an event. Yes, you may be alone after 5 minutes of riding and on your own for the next 3 weeks, but at least you know that others are doing the same thing at the same time.
> 
> Many people race RAAM with no intention of actually winning, they just want to officially complete it within the time cut. When I did Trans Iowa this spring I had no intention of winning, I just wanted to beat the course within the time limit and be an official finisher. I suspect that the GDR likely has similar people with similar ambitions. I find nothing wrong with these ambitions.


I'm not experienced enough to possibly break the record, and that's a-okay with me.

See ya'll on the blog.


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## The Sage (Dec 1, 2004)

*Too bad were all not cool!*

"(Maldonado) didn't have a clue what he was getting into," he said. "He wasn't even close to halfway done at three weeks. I wouldn't even call him a racer- he was a misguided tourist."[/i]

(This last quote is only semi-accurate--the words above are paraphrased from what I actually said. My quote was very general--I don't believe that I ever mentioned Kenny's name, nor did the reporter that I can remember. But the point that I was trying to make is valid--that there are several people every year that attempt the GDR without really grasping what they're getting into. And some of them really should be touring the route instead of 'racing' it. --MC)

I know they were a little off on your quote...but cmon man... are you saying that we should just stay home and sleep on the couch? No matter how much planning we do, there are still going to be problems. You can count on that. To say you shouldn't do somethng because your not prepared is bogus. I'd never do **** if that were the case.
During the KTR (yeah I know... not the GDR; doesn't even compare) I was prepared to the max (so I thought) and it still took me 20+ hrs. Kenny went pretty far. More than most, but you make it seem as if your the only one worthy of an attempt of such proportions. I don't know you (and I have a ton of repect for the stuff you have done), but I think your probably a better guy than that article suggests. Try giving props to folks other than yourself! We can't all be the record holders of our own race...


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## alizbee (Aug 25, 2005)

The Sage said:


> To say you shouldn't do somethng because your not prepared is bogus.


Um... No it's not. It is smart.


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## MarkoInTheBoat (Apr 16, 2006)

The Sage said:


> "Too bad were all not cool!


Geez Sage, why would you judge anybody from a newspaper article with a misinterpreted quote?



The Sage said:


> Try giving props to folks other than yourself! We can't all be the record holders of our own race...


You sure made yourself look like a pr!ck with that quote. Thats all I have to say about that.

That will be all from me. I know Mike is capable of speaking for himself.


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## Morlahach (Nov 8, 2005)

MarkoInTheBoat said:


> Geez Sage, why would you judge anybody from a newspaper article with a misinterpreted quote?


Mike is not saying it was misinterpreted. Just that he never used the guy's (Maldonado's) name. Mike agrees with the sentiment. I think Mike is saying that he made a general statement about people who are unprepared and that the journalist figured out who Mike was talking about by doing back research as to who never made it to the half way point.

Of course, reading back through the tone of hundreds of Mike's previous posts I know that he would NEVER say that someone was unprepared, didn't have a clue, and was less of a racer than a tourist.



MarkoInTheBoat said:


> You sure made yourself look like a pr!ck with that quote. Thats all I have to say about that.
> 
> That will be all from me. I know Mike is capable of speaking for himself.


I totally agree. Every one of us should respect Mike, with his awesome array of palmares, regardless of how he treats others. He has earned the right to tell major newspapers that individuals are clueless tourists, then come here and spread the word further. I think Kenny Maldonado should feel ashamed to have ever tried GDR, and I hope that after he reads this thread that he realizes how we all think he is a fool.

You are right. Mike is VERY capable of speaking for himself.


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## sizlinseagulsoup (Dec 31, 2005)

Morlahach said:


> I think Kenny Maldonado should feel ashamed to have ever tried GDR, and I hope that after he reads this thread that he realizes how we all think he is a fool.


WOW. Mike's comment isn't much of note. But that, my friend, is amazing.

"We only regret what we didn't do"


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## Morlahach (Nov 8, 2005)

sizlinseagulsoup said:


> WOW. Mike's comment isn't much of note. But that, my friend, is amazing.
> 
> "We only regret what we didn't do"


I thought it was obvious, but to make it clear, I was being sarcastic.

Through Mike's actions Kenny's story has had a very negative spin put on it. This negative spin has been propogated both in the Albaquerque city paper as well as on the MTBR forum. If I were Kenny in this situation I would feel embarrassed by this whole thing.

This is my point, that Mike has shamed Kenny when in fact I have every bit of respect for a guy who keeps plugging away for three weeks before giving up. How many people would have quit after just a few days or a week of slow progress? I hope Kenny makes his first attempt a learning experience, figures things out, and makes another go of it. You learn by doing, not by reading or armchair quarterbacking.

Mike has had his fair share of misadventures, and through them he has become the expert endurance racer he is today. If Mike had waited until he was fully prepared to do his first epic race he would never have started. He needs to realize that others need to go through the same hard knocks. This is going to make me sound like a flaming liberal, but he needs to think of the feelings of others before he says some of the things he says.


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## ionsmuse (Jul 14, 2005)

The Sage said:


> are you saying that we should just stay home and sleep on the couch? No matter how much planning we do, there are still going to be problems. You can count on that. To say you shouldn't do somethng because your not prepared is bogus. I'd never do **** if that were the case.


I think it'd be helpful to keep scale in mind.

Let's say three weeks on the GDR is roughly (very) equal to a 19 hour KTR. Ergo, spending three weeks to ride the Montana section is (again, very vaguely) akin to taking a 15 hour day to make Westwater.

Value judgments aside, it seems obvious that these are two almost categorically different modes of travel. Could rider X doing a four day self-supported Kokopelli line up with the crew at midnight? Of course, but most would I think fail to see the point.

And cmon, relapsing petty online spats are boring.

Semi-serious and intelligent disagreement is much less so.


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## afie (Aug 28, 2006)

For anyone else riding from Banff: the road past Spray lake campgrounds is closed. Take spray lakes road instead


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## MarkoInTheBoat (Apr 16, 2006)

Morlahach said:


> This is my point, that Mike has shamed Kenny when in fact I have every bit of respect for a guy who keeps plugging away for three weeks before giving up.


Last summer it was really exciting to follow Kenny's progress, and I was really bummed out when he threw in the towel. Until today I never even thought to question whether or not Kenny should have been considered a racer just because he is making "slow progress". He rode through 2 states and that gets my respect.
I didn't follow the GDR thread after the race was over last summer so maybe I missed something big. But after reading the newspaper article I felt that it was the journalist who negatively portrayed Kenny. Has mike said anything negative about the guy other then what is said in the article? Because I am skeptical to believe mike thinks any less of Kenny because he showed up to race instead of touring the route on his own.

Sage, sorry I jumped on you so quick this afternoon, but come on. It was a little too much for you to make a post like that based on the newspaper article that Mike posted.
I will be happy to take you riding around my neighborhood to make it up to you.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Morlahach said:


> Wow, them's some fighting words.


Based on every 'experience' I've had with you on MTBR, I can only conclude that you see just about everything I write that way. And I don't know how/why I rubbed you the wrong way originally, but your personal attacks and obvious anger directed at me are getting old. If you really need to get something off your chest, tell me what a bad person I am, insult my opinion or anything else, why don't you stop hiding behind your screen name and give me a call? I'm in the book.

Unless you're just here for the drama and controversy that you can perpetuate?

In which case, I'll just use the handy-dandy MTBR "Ignore" feature and be done with you.



Morlahach said:


> I think that the draw for the less competitive riders in the GDR may be that, if you do it with 20 others, it is an event. Yes, you may be alone after 5 minutes of riding and on your own for the next 3 weeks, but at least you know that others are doing the same thing at the same time.


Sure--whatever floats their boat. No one's ever going to be turned away from the race for any reason--they're welcome to line up with everyone else and have at it. The only line that'll ever be drawn is in how long they're kept track of on the blog. And that limit was set 2 years ago at 25 days.



Morlahach said:


> Many people race RAAM with no intention of actually winning, they just want to officially complete it within the time cut. When I did Trans Iowa this spring I had no intention of winning, I just wanted to beat the course within the time limit and be an official finisher. I suspect that the GDR likely has similar people with similar ambitions. I find nothing wrong with these ambitions.


No one but you has said anything about racers winning or even being competitive. What's the deal? Perhaps you're aware that this isn't about you at all? Maybe you need to think about that: Despite your apparent inclination to argue online, this issue has nothing to do with you.

Just a thought...

MC


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

The Sage said:


> I know they were a little off on your quote...but cmon man... are you saying that we should just stay home and sleep on the couch?


Never have I said, implied, hinted, or even thought that. Pretty much the opposite of my core beliefs, actually.



The Sage said:


> No matter how much planning we do, there are still going to be problems. You can count on that.


Of course there are. Please go to the GDR website and read the essay entitled "A day in the life". I wrote that to give potential racers some idea of what to expect, and to forewarn them that this is neither easy nor completely fun.

But I digress. Who ever said that there wouldn't be problems? Not sure where you're going with this point. Care to enlighten?



The Sage said:


> To say you shouldn't do somethng because your not prepared is bogus.


OK. And?



The Sage said:


> Kenny went pretty far. More than most, but you make it seem as if your the only one worthy of an attempt of such proportions.


Kenny did great. Kenny was simply touring. I'm truly sorry that the quote in the article seemed to be negative towards Kenny. It wasn't spoken that way in the interview, but it sure seemed to come off that way in the article. In truth the reason that I posted the text of the article in the first place was to bring it out in the open. I'd hate for Kenny to get the idea that anything he did was anything less than admirable. The only thing that Kenny was guilty of last year was touring, and most of us (myself included) hold touring in pretty high regard. I'd prefer to be out touring right now instead of sitting here reading and responding to petty arguments on an internet forum.



The Sage said:


> I don't know you (and I have a ton of repect for the stuff you have done), but I think your probably a better guy than that article suggests.


I spent an ~hour on the phone with the guy answering questions. I distinctly remember both of us laughing out loud as I shared several light-hearted anecdotes about my experiences out there. When I hung up the phone at the end of the interview I was smiling--it seemed like the interview had gone well and would be a good 'intro' to this year's race. Opened it up this AM and felt like I'd been blindsided. I *did* say almost all of the things that I was quoted on, but I did not feel like the overall tone of the interview was so negative. Reading that article made me feel like I was the grumpiest guy on the planet with nothing good to say about anyone. And that just ain't the case.

Dunno why the reporter put such a negative spin on it, but that's his deal. I can only try to give some context to the things that I said.



The Sage said:


> Try giving props to folks other than yourself!


I gave 'props' to lots of people in that interview, starting with John Stamstad for having the vision to TT the route in the style that he did way back in '99. I gave a point by point breakdown of who my 'top three' for this year's race are, and why, including lots of praise. Dunno why none of that made it into the article.



The Sage said:


> We can't all be the record holders of our own race...


Pretty confident that I never suggested anything of the sort. Very confident that my time as record holder can be measured in weeks.

MC


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Morlahach said:


> I think Mike is saying that he made a general statement about people who are unprepared and that the journalist figured out who Mike was talking about by doing back research as to who never made it to the half way point.


You thought wrong. I never said a single word about preparedness. The reporter used the word 'prepare' in a sentence (NOT a quote), but it was a non sequitor (sp?). He never followed through and linked that sentence to anything afterwards.

FWIW, in that part of the conversation I was talking generally about racing vs. touring. You do understand that there's a difference, right?

Thanks for knowing nothing about me, assuming the worst from a contextless quote in a newspaper, and then 'vocalizing' your negativity. Again.



Morlahach said:


> Of course, reading back through the tone of hundreds of Mike's previous posts I know that he would NEVER say that someone was unprepared, didn't have a clue, and was less of a racer than a tourist.


Hundreds?!! Wow.

Really--wow.

I guess I just need to get used to the fact that you see the glass as half empty. Or is it more accurate to say that you reached for the half empty glass, knocked it off the counter, then stumbled and kicked it under the table, ruining the carpet in the process, and have been angry about it ever since?

There is a big difference between racing and touring. The only person that's suggested any negative connotation associated with touring is _*YOU*_, above *and* below. Whatchu got against us tourists?



Morlahach said:


> I totally agree. Every one of us should respect Mike, with his awesome array of palmares, regardless of how he treats others. He has earned the right to tell major newspapers that individuals are clueless tourists, then come here and spread the word further. I think Kenny Maldonado should feel ashamed to have ever tried GDR, and I hope that after he reads this thread that he realizes how we all think he is a fool.


I've had enough of your personal attacks and negative spin there, bub. The way that you attach negativity to the things I say (and then spew the way you did in the paragraph above) is boggling. All I can do is furrow an eyebrow and shrug my shoulders. Aintcha got anything better to do than hate?

Sheesh.

MC


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Morlahach said:


> I thought it was obvious, but to make it clear, I was being sarcastic.


Huh. That's weird. You wrote something and someone read it differently than you intended? Weird. From that I can only assume that you must hate touring cyclists.

Hater! He's a hater! Everyone look--he hates Kenny!



Morlahach said:


> Through Mike's actions Kenny's story has had a very negative spin put on it. This negative spin has been propogated both in the Albaquerque city paper as well as on the MTBR forum. If I were Kenny in this situation I would feel embarrassed by this whole thing.


?!

The only one propagating it is you, as usual.



Morlahach said:


> This is my point, that Mike has shamed Kenny when in fact I have every bit of respect for a guy who keeps plugging away for three weeks before giving up. How many people would have quit after just a few days or a week of slow progress? I hope Kenny makes his first attempt a learning experience, figures things out, and makes another go of it. You learn by doing, not by reading or armchair quarterbacking.


Sorry I took so long to get back to this one. After I deliberately and maliciously 'shamed' Kenny, I went out and kicked a few puppies, then ran down to the vacant lot so that I could burn some prairie dogs. All in a days work for me!

What, no ambulances for you to chase today?



Morlahach said:


> Mike has had his fair share of misadventures, and through them he has become the expert endurance racer he is today. If Mike had waited until he was fully prepared to do his first epic race he would never have started. He needs to realize that others need to go through the same hard knocks. This is going to make me sound like a flaming liberal, but he needs to think of the feelings of others before he says some of the things he says.


Again, the only one harping on preparedness is you.



MC


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## Morlahach (Nov 8, 2005)

*Long post*



mikesee said:


> Based on every 'experience' I've had with you on MTBR, I can only conclude that you see just about everything I write that way. And I don't know how/why I rubbed you the wrong way originally, but your personal attacks and obvious anger directed at me are getting old. If you really need to get something off your chest, tell me what a bad person I am, insult my opinion or anything else, why don't you stop hiding behind your screen name and give me a call? I'm in the book.


Let me refresh your memory about our first experience together.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=158261&highlight=saddle+bag



Morlahach said:


> A seatpost rack is a long lever holding a load. Take a book and hold it at arm's length and it is a lot harder to hold up than if you hold it near your chest. A true touring rack has struts supporting it from below to help prevent the lever from having any up and down motion. A seatpost rack is a bastardization of a real rack and is a poor substitute. Have you considered using a saddlebag? Racks are sort of an American phenomenon, and saddlebags are more British. Consider the following saddle:
> 
> http://www.wallbike.com/B17.html
> 
> ...





mikesee said:


> I just love it when people trot out pics of the carradice stuff. Makes my day (laughing) every time.





Morlahach said:


> So you think a Carradice is too. . . what?
> 
> Too heavy? Too weak? Too British? Too retro?
> 
> ...





mikesee said:


> It makes me laugh all the more when I read of a Carradice zealot trying to defend the bags, and, by extension, their own honor.
> 
> If they work for you, fine, but why try to push them on people? Why insist that it's THE BEST answer, when you only have some of the info? Provide the info you have, then let the poster decide if it works for them.
> 
> ...





Morlahach said:


> It may shock you that I don't own, and have never owned, a Carradice nor any other saddlebag. I know people who own and love them, so I am relaying their opinion, not my own. I am surprised by Kent's info that a saddle would break while carrying one on a paved brevet, but I don't know what saddle was being used nor what load was in the bag.
> 
> So go ahead and laugh at me as I "trot out" the pictures and hang my "honor" on the utility of Carradice. I certainly have a better picture of you than you do of me.


Perhaps I am holding a grudge a little long, but I have only "spoken" with you three times. In the above thread, a thread where you suggested that the organizers of the Arrowhead Ultra should have left under prepared people on their own in -23 degrees as a sort of Darwin experiment, and this thread where you proudly announced that you shamed Kenny for the readers in Albequerque.


----------



## MarkoInTheBoat (Apr 16, 2006)

Would you mind posting some of the Arrowhead ultra stuff for me to see again? Its way past my bed time and I'm to lazy to go searching around for where Mike suggested that the organizers of the Arrowhead Ultra should have left under prepared people on their own in -23 degrees as a sort of Darwin experiment.

I should have gotten popcorn hours ago.


----------



## Morlahach (Nov 8, 2005)

*Journalistic practice*

By the way, before you start accusing your interviewer of libel, let me point something out.

It is the standard in journalism to use quotes where quoting, and to put in parantheses something that is paraphrased or to make clear the noun that someone was talking about. In this manner the journalist can clarify something like "He didn't have a clue what he was getting into" and change it into "(Maldonado) didn't have a clue what he was getting into".

Therefore, if this journalist was following the rules of the trade, he was indeed quoting, not paraphrasing.



mikesee said:


> "(Maldonado) didn't have a clue what he was getting into," he said. "He wasn't even close to halfway done at three weeks. I wouldn't even call him a racer- he was a misguided tourist."


You said in your defense of this article


mikesee said:


> My quote was very general--I don't believe that I ever mentioned Kenny's name, nor did the reporter that I can remember.


And yet when I suggested that Mike had made general statements that the reporter must have figured out:


Morlahach said:


> I think Mike is saying that he made a general statement about people who are unprepared and that the journalist figured out who Mike was talking about by doing back research as to who never made it to the half way point.





Mikesee said:


> You thought wrong. I never said a single word about preparedness. The reporter used the word 'prepare' in a sentence (NOT a quote), but it was a non sequitor (sp?). He never followed through and linked that sentence to anything afterwards.


So here we have you saying that this was a paraphrase, not a quote. Yet the author uses quotes and uses parantheses to clarify who you were talking about. Seems to me that someone who was paraphrasing would never have used quotes and wouldn't have bothered to use the parantheses.

You also claimed you never used Kenny's name, yet when I suggested that maybe you talked in generalities about not being prepared (it was in the article about one paragraph above this) you said no, I thought wrong.

So where did this reporter find out that Kenny took 3 weeks and that he wasn't "even" a racer, but a tourist?


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## Morlahach (Nov 8, 2005)

MarkoInTheBoat said:


> Would you mind posting some of the Arrowhead ultra stuff for me to see again? Its way past my bed time and I'm to lazy to go searching around for where Mike suggested that the organizers of the Arrowhead Ultra should have left under prepared people on their own in -23 degrees as a sort of Darwin experiment.
> 
> I should have gotten popcorn hours ago.


I was paraphrasing.


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## Jilleo (Dec 12, 2005)

*This thread took a turn for the worse*



MarkoInTheBoat said:


> Would you mind posting some of the Arrowhead ultra stuff for me to see again? Its way past my bed time and I'm to lazy to go searching around for where Mike suggested that the organizers of the Arrowhead Ultra should have left under prepared people on their own in -23 degrees as a sort of Darwin experiment.


Ha! Journalists call this kind of statement hyperbole.

Here's the thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=269930

It was a really good thread, and raised some important questions about the huge explosion of self-supported endurance racing in the past couple of years. Especially in the case of winter racing, where underpreparedness could cost a person their life.

Highly recommended. Though it doesn't have the Jerry Springer chair-throwing fun of this thread.


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## MarkoInTheBoat (Apr 16, 2006)

Morlahach said:


> Blahblahblahblah


Your still talking about that crap? well what if you take out the previous paragraph of the article.
_Curiak, who also holds the GDR record by winning the inaugural race in 2004 at 16 days and 57 minutes, has little sympathy for Maldonado._
Did mike say anything to the reporter about having little sympathy for Kenny? Doubtful.

What if the article read something like this...

Because Curriak is known and respected as one of the pioneers in the quickly growing sport of ultra racing, he feels it his his responsibility to stress the importance of safety when considering such epic undertakings such as the Great Divide. 
A few close calls during the Arrowhead Ultra in February acted as a serious wake up call to the race community that Ultra races can quickly become a struggle for survival. Mike wants people to seriously consider the consequences that come along with these races. The race is so grueling that a rider who doesn't prepare adequately can wind up in some very serious trouble, Curiak said
"(Maldonado) didn't have a clue what he was getting into," he said. "He wasn't even close to halfway done at three weeks. I wouldn't even call him a racer- he was a misguided tourist."


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*Who cares?!?*



Morlahach said:


> By the way, before you start accusing your interviewer of libel, let me point something out.
> 
> It is the standard in journalism to use quotes where quoting, and to put in parantheses something that is paraphrased or to make clear the noun that someone was talking about. In this manner the journalist can clarify something like "He didn't have a clue what he was getting into" and change it into "(Maldonado) didn't have a clue what he was getting into".
> 
> ...


Mike's a good guy.... Kenny is a good guy who pedaled a very large load around for 3 weeks!

M~ go for a ride you well feel better 

Mike see you Friday!

this fixie racer/ tourist can't wait!


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## donkey (Jan 14, 2004)

Morlahach said:


> By the way, before you start accusing your interviewer of libel, let me point something out.
> 
> It is the standard in journalism to use quotes where quoting, and to put in parantheses something that is paraphrased or to make clear the noun that someone was talking about. In this manner the journalist can clarify something like "He didn't have a clue what he was getting into" and change it into "(Maldonado) didn't have a clue what he was getting into".
> 
> ...


It's times like these that cause me to realize how little free time I have in comparison to others......

B


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*lol*



donkey said:


> It's times like these that cause me to realize how little free time I have in comparison to others......
> 
> B


lol


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## ionsmuse (Jul 14, 2005)

.....


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## The Sage (Dec 1, 2004)

*Thanks for the clarification...*

Mike,
I appreciate the follow up...I get a little fired up sometimes when it looks like the underdog or the little guy gets worked over. Sorry for coming off like a prick Mike and Marko.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sage
I know they were a little off on your quote...but cmon man... are you saying that we should just stay home and sleep on the couch?

Quote:
Never have I said, implied, hinted, or even thought that. Pretty much the opposite of my core beliefs, actually.

Reply...I figured as much. Can you see where we might have gotten that impression from the article though? It's almost as if you're saying that we might as well not show up because were not fast enough, or tough enough, or prepared enough. Sorry if I took it any other way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sage
No matter how much planning we do, there are still going to be problems. You can count on that.

Quote:
Of course there are. Please go to the GDR website and read the essay entitled "A day in the life". I wrote that to give potential racers some idea of what to expect, and to forewarn them that this is neither easy nor completely fun.

But I digress. Who ever said that there wouldn't be problems? Not sure where you're going with this point. Care to enlighten?

Reply...Great Article. No one really said there wouldn't be problems. In fact, I would venture to guess most of us count on them and truly know the inherent risks involved. For myself, that is the draw. Not knowing if you're going to make it out... I have dreams sometimes that I don't. I often fantasize (if that word fits here) that if I were to die, being out in the woods might be my first choice. Sounds a little morbid I know, but drowning would suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sage
To say you shouldn't do something because your not prepared is bogus.

Quote:
OK. And?

Reply...I'm just saying that no one can be fully prepared for anything (that's the existentialist in me). You do the best you can, and you try and listen to your gut feeling when it tells you you're in trouble. Of course it's smart to prepare (alizbee). I'm not suggesting you try some of these "races" without preparing. That wouldn't be smart. However, not challenging yourself to attempt these things doesn't seem right either because (I'm guessing) everyone has had doubts and second guessed themselves on numerous occasions. That's another reason I do crap like this is because I want to prove that I can do it. Not for you, but for me alone. Does that answer the question (I'm not being a smartass I just want to know if that helped)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sage
Kenny went pretty far. More than most, but you make it seem as if your the only one worthy of an attempt of such proportions.

Quote:
Kenny did great. Kenny was simply touring. I'm truly sorry that the quote in the article seemed to be negative towards Kenny. It wasn't spoken that way in the interview, but it sure seemed to come off that way in the article. In truth the reason that I posted the text of the article in the first place was to bring it out in the open. I'd hate for Kenny to get the idea that anything he did was anything less than admirable. The only thing that Kenny was guilty of last year was touring, and most of us (myself included) hold touring in pretty high regard. I'd prefer to be out touring right now instead of sitting here reading and responding to petty arguments on an Internet forum.

Reply...I wondered why you did post the text. The above would have been nice to add. That may have clarified things a little better and made you seem a little nicer at least. It would have made me see things a little different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sage
I don't know you (and I have a ton of respect for the stuff you have done), but I think your probably a better guy than that article suggests.

Quote:
I spent an ~hour on the phone with the guy answering questions. I distinctly remember both of us laughing out loud as I shared several light-hearted anecdotes about my experiences out there. When I hung up the phone at the end of the interview I was smiling--it seemed like the interview had gone well and would be a good 'intro' to this year's race. Opened it up this AM and felt like I'd been blindsided. I *did* say almost all of the things that I was quoted on, but I did not feel like the overall tone of the interview was so negative. Reading that article made me feel like I was the grumpiest guy on the planet with nothing good to say about anyone. And that just ain't the case.

Dunno why the reporter put such a negative spin on it, but that's his deal. I can only try to give some context to the things that I said.

Reply...Much appreciated

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sage
Try giving props to folks other than yourself!

Quote:
I gave 'props' to lots of people in that interview, starting with John Stamstad for having the vision to TT the route in the style that he did way back in '99. I gave a point by point breakdown of who my 'top three' for this year's race are, and why, including lots of praise. Dunno why none of that made it into the article.

Reply... Me neither

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sage
We can't all be the record holders of our own race...

Quote:
Pretty confident that I never suggested anything of the sort. Very confident that my time as record holder can be measured in weeks.

Reply... Again, sorry about that one. My "Moral Anger" sometimes puts me in the situation of being a prick!

Mike,
I don't know anyone who doesn't respond with a "WOW!" when they hear of the things you do. Sometimes they reply with "What a Dumb Ass" or "What the hell for", but the respect is there...from me and everyone else. For me (not that I'm on the GDR level), I don't need anyone to understand why. I just want to ride my bike till I'm Silly. Prepared or not! That's my goal every time I get on the ride.

It's not your job to babysit us. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and the guidance you give to those getting into the sport. But, we are adults and should act that way.

By the way, Dave Harris told me once (not to bring him into this) that "It's all a race." I took that as saying that touring and racing aren't too far apart. Is that what we are all talking about here anyway?

I want to write more because this actually is a good topic, however, I have to get back to work so I can pay for my habits! Maybe I'll chime in later to see if I can piss anyone else off. Peace Out Y'all!


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

*Kalispell to Euroka ride on Thursday followed by beer*



CyclingCa said:


> So, how's everybody doing?


writing long postings


CyclingCa said:


> I plan on riding up to Eureka during Thursday.
> If anybody is interested in hooking up for the ride to Eureka or dinner and a couple of beers in Eureka on Thursday, let me know. Best is via voice or text to 415 341 3438.


So how about the important stuff: riding and beer:
any takers for a joint ride from Kalispell to Eureka and beer in Eureka on Thursday?

Andreas


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*Kevin and I*

Well be meeting around 12-1p on thurs at the bike shop in whitefish I'd be down with food and a beer in e-town =)


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## CyclingCa (Apr 6, 2007)

*Thursday noon in Whitefish*

see you at the bikeshop

Andreas


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## daveIT (Jan 6, 2004)

Pete's gonna beat the record.


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## Bearbait (Jan 14, 2004)

kill it Pete...


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## tamjam (Jan 23, 2004)

Go Rick!


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## TomP (Jan 12, 2004)

*Go Bears!*



tamjam said:


> Go Rick!


 -nm


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## GDRMovie08 (May 9, 2008)

WE ARE PUTTING TOGETHER A MOVIE OF GDR 2008 AND ARE INTERESTED IN INTERVIEWING THE PEOPLE LISTED BELOW FOR IT. WE ARE TRYING TO OBTAIN THEIR CONTACT DETAILS AND IF ANYONE CAN PROVIDE US WITH CONTACT NUMBERS OR EMAILS FOR THEM, WE WOULD BE EXTREMELY GRATEFUL. PLEASE EMAIL: [email protected]

John Stamstad 
Steve Wilkinson 
Jon Billman 
Ashley McKenzie
Josh Ficke
Matt Kemp
Bruce Dinsmoore 
Carl Hutchinson
Scott Hodge 
Matt Mcfee 
Dave Nice 
Andy Buchanan 
John Nobile 
Nathan Bay


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## GDRMovie08 (May 9, 2008)

*There are more people we are trying to get in touch with. If anyone has contact information for people listed below, could you please ask them to contact me at [email protected] as soon as possible.

Thanks

GDR Movie 2008

John Stamstad 
Steve Wilkinson 
Jon Billman 
Ashley McKenzie
Josh Ficke
Matt Kemp
Bruce Dinsmoore 
Carl Hutchinson
Scott Hodge 
Matt Mcfee 
Dave Nice 
Andy Buchanan 
John Nobile 
Nathan Bay*


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

Your email seems to be bouncing. Here's me:

Matt McFee - mmcfee AT hotmail DOT com



GDRMovie08 said:


> *There are more people we are trying to get in touch with. If anyone has contact information for people listed below, could you please ask them to contact me at [email protected] as soon as possible.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ...


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## GDRMovie08 (May 9, 2008)

Apologies. I've updated our post with the correct address which is: 
[email protected]

Thanks for the contact information for Matt Kemp, I will drop him a line.

Shereen Parker
on behalf of Gerald Wisden


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## Saint John (Aug 23, 2005)

GDRMovie08 said:


> Apologies. I've updated our post with the correct address which is:
> [email protected]
> 
> Thanks for the contact information for Matt Kemp, I will drop him a line.
> ...


That appears to be the same email address. The contact info was for Matt McFee, not Matt Kemp.


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## GDRMovie08 (May 9, 2008)

The correct email address is [email protected]


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## Live Wire (Aug 27, 2007)

GDRMovie08 said:


> The correct email address is [email protected]


Seems you're missing a few good names- check out the call-ins from last year. There were some pretty colorful guys that will be back this year that would make for some good interviews.


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