# BLK MRKT RIOT build advice and suggestions!



## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

Hey everyone,
I'm an old BMXer getting ready to build my first MTB DJ...I've been riding 20"s for about 25 years. Anyway, I'm looking to spend about $1500.00-$1700.00 on my new BLK MRKT RIOT build and I think I know what I want but I would like to hear feedback, advise, suggestions and opinions on my build list. I've done some research but I've found that the best research is done by word of mouth from fellow riders...so please help! Enough of my B.S....here's my parts list, please give me some input and direction. Thank You!!!

Frame-08'-09' BLK MRKT RIOT 21.5"...color does'nt matter cause I'm spraying it flat black
Headset-Stolen Intergrated Campy Spec...black
Bars-BLK MRKT Bada Boom 2" rise...black
Stem-BLK MRKT Underboss...black
Grips-Eastern Skull Grips...black
Bar Ends-Stolen...black
Fork-X-Fusion Velvet R 80mm...black
Brake-Avid BB7 (don't want to deal with hydros)
Lever-Odyssey Monolever Medium...black
Cable-Kink Linear...black
Seat-Verde Timber Pivotal...black
Post-Kink Stump Pivotal...black
Seat Clamp-Help???...black
Cranks-Demolition Medial 2.0 (170mm)...black
Botton Bracket-Profile Euro...black
Chainring-Tree Lite Spline Drive 28t...black
Chain-Mechanik Hollow-Trac...silver (I don't like black or colored chains)
Pedals-Drive...black
Wheels-09' Azonic Outlaws...black
Tubes-Help???
Tires-Kenda Small Block's, Intense Micro Knobby's, Schwalbe Tabletops???

I'm not afraid to admit that I am a "weight weenie"...so I want this bike to be light. I think I have it real close to what I want but I would still like to hear advice, suggestions, opinions and personal experiance. Please let me know what you think and "Thank You"!


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## Windowlicker (Oct 22, 2007)

Personally, I wouldn't fret about tubes. Grab whatever your LBS has that isn't a boat anchor.


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

for 1500-1700, you could easily build a MOB instead of a riot. if you're putting down that kind of coin in the first place, might as well make sure your frame is top notch (you can always throw on little bits later to save on initial cost).

just my .02. save a little over a half pound of frame weight, get better build quality, and also the ability to tailor the bike to you a bit better. (better length fitting, horiz or verr drops, ISCG tabs if you plan on going gears and are getting a frame built from S&M, maybe gyro tabs if you want, and more color options)

If you go MOB, and are willing to wait a bit, you can also talk them out of V-brake mounts if that's your cuppa tea (seeing you're from a BMX background, it might be). definitely helps alleviate any potential problems with wheels shifting in the dropouts due to brake forces.

past that:
go mob and you won't have to worry about a seat clamp, it's integrated.
tubes? who cares. get something that fits your tires.
Tires? I'm running 2.35 Small Block 8's on 32mm rims and they're pretty sweet. fairly high volume, super fast rolling, and don't get demolished street riding.

the micro knobbies will probably get demolished if you're doing much street work, and I don't have any experience with the schwalbes.

other tires to consider are kenda K-Rads or Maxxis Holy Rollers. holy rollers hook up a tad better on dirt, but both are better for street work than SB8's or micro knobbies.


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## BIKESerFUN (Sep 5, 2007)

Table tops


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

Bryguy17 said:


> the micro knobbies will probably get demolished if you're doing much street work


Uh, no.


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## the_godfather (Jan 19, 2007)

thought about plastic pedals? more and more weight weenie bmx'ers are using them becuase they are light.
if not try something like wellgo mg-1's or the magnesium primo pedals

if you are spending that amount of cash i would try and spring for the MOB. easiest way to make that bike lighter if you are a weight weenie


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

Honestly...one main reason rot the Riot instead of the MOB, my wife is buying me the Riot frame on sale at beyondbikes.com for $259.00 for Christmas, if I spent $500 on a frame she would ****. In the long run she won't end up knowing what my total build cost...call me whipped and say what you will. Second reason is that it is my first MTB DJ build and I don't want to drop that much for the frame myself...I was probably a bit off on my projected cost. Any other part suggestions or advice...I would like to hear more and even see some of your rigs and build specs. Thanks!!!


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

the_godfather said:


> thought about plastic pedals? more and more weight weenie bmx'ers are using them becuase they are light.
> if not try something like wellgo mg-1's or the magnesium primo pedals
> 
> if you are spending that amount of cash i would try and spring for the MOB. easiest way to make that bike lighter if you are a weight weenie


Thought about the plastics but the pedals I'm looking at are only an oz. heavier than plastics with sealed bearings. As for the MOB...I think I was off in how much I can spend and what my build list is actually going to cost. Thanks though!


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

C'mon guys...more please!!!


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## the_godfather (Jan 19, 2007)

what kind of stuff are you going to be riding? just DJ's or street and park aswell.
what are your local DJ's like. sandy so they stay dry all year round or do they get wet and stay wet?
if they are dry all year round i would suggest the tabletops. very light with all the grip you need. if your trails get wet and stay wet my advice would be to get the holy rollers or DMR Moto RT's. great grip in damp conditions and they roll fast aswell. the folding version are nearly as light as the tabletops as well.
other than that its a pretty sick build. any seat clamp will do. all pretty much work the same with similar weights.
azonic wheelset is good
fork not to sure about. dont really know enough. other choices include argyle, pike or rigid


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

the_godfather said:


> what kind of stuff are you going to be riding? just DJ's or street and park aswell.
> what are your local DJ's like. sandy so they stay dry all year round or do they get wet and stay wet?
> if they are dry all year round i would suggest the tabletops. very light with all the grip you need. if your trails get wet and stay wet my advice would be to get the holy rollers or DMR Moto RT's. great grip in damp conditions and they roll fast aswell. the folding version are nearly as light as the tabletops as well.
> other than that its a pretty sick build. any seat clamp will do. all pretty much work the same with similar weights.
> ...


I'll ride pretty much anything in front of me...so all kinds of conditions. Thought about Holy Rollers, had them on my 20 but they are heavy. As far as the fork goes...I picked the X-Fusion not cause the BLK MRKT team rides them but because of the weight and price. Thanks again but I would still like to hear more please. I'd like to get my rig around 26-28 lbs. with my parts list or your suggestions and around $1500.00...what do you think so far for both weight and price?


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

I was just curious, whats with the big deal on weight (if you were racing then I might understand)...my bike is 35lbs and sores like a bird and feels light in the air...I think its just because it has really good geometry. Your Riot would probably do/feel he same if it were 27lbs or 32lbs. I think a bike that handles really well makes up for any extra weight it may have.


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

right now u can still get riots at beyond bikes for $269.99 then check out bike man .com for the velvets he has them for $299.99 and if u look i had posted in a thread about under $200 cranks and put the profile.com discount codes in there and maybe look into a set of azonic outlaws or revolution wheels theyre a fair set of wheels for under $300 and then grab a gusset single speed kit for the back and u will have all the major stuff out of the way for about $1000 and look for the discount codes to left of the home page at beyond bikes i think a guy on here got a riot frame shipped to his door for $215 or something like that and then u can hit dans comp for the chain,seat,post,sprockett etc and use a discount code with them. I was going to go with the under boss stem but didnt want a stem with a rise to it so i went deity instead that was just my personal pref.

sites i would recommend would be:

beyondbikes.com

jensonusa.com

pricepoint.com

bikeman.com

cambriabike.com

just hollar if u have anymore questions i just did the transfer from 20-26".


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

btw dont be scared of hydro brakes. i was and they came in the box pre-bled etc. and they were the easiest brakes ive ever installed. price is one thing but dont be afraid of them cause their hydro!


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

jeffgothro said:


> I was just curious, whats with the big deal on weight (if you were racing then I might understand)...my bike is 35lbs and sores like a bird and feels light in the air...I think its just because it has really good geometry. Your Riot would probably do/feel he same if it were 27lbs or 32lbs. I think a bike that handles really well makes up for any extra weight it may have.


Personal preference...I like light bikes.


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

norcaldj said:


> right now u can still get riots at beyond bikes for $269.99 then check out bike man .com for the velvets he has them for $299.99 and if u look i had posted in a thread about under $200 cranks and put the profile.com discount codes in there and maybe look into a set of azonic outlaws or revolution wheels theyre a fair set of wheels for under $300 and then grab a gusset single speed kit for the back and u will have all the major stuff out of the way for about $1000 and look for the discount codes to left of the home page at beyond bikes i think a guy on here got a riot frame shipped to his door for $215 or something like that and then u can hit dans comp for the chain,seat,post,sprockett etc and use a discount code with them. I was going to go with the under boss stem but didnt want a stem with a rise to it so i went deity instead that was just my personal pref.
> 
> sites i would recommend would be:
> 
> ...


Thanks bro...that's some of the best help that I think I'm going to get. I appreciate it!


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

BIGDADDYRAT said:


> Personal preference...I like light bikes.


Its all good bro. :thumbsup:


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

norcaldj said:


> btw dont be scared of hydro brakes. i was and they came in the box pre-bled etc. and they were the easiest brakes ive ever installed. price is one thing but dont be afraid of them cause their hydro!


You mean mechanical or the ones with fluid in them. I cant stand the ones with fluid, theres no modulation, they just lock up...I totally dig mechanicals though, I can feather those a bit and scrub my speed without full lock-up.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

jeffgothro said:


> You mean mechanical or the ones with fluid in them. I cant stand the ones with fluid, theres no modulation, they just lock up...I totally dig mechanicals though, I can feather those a bit and scrub my speed without full lock-up.


i think it all depends on the price, if you take a hydro and a mechanical that are the same price the mechanical wins ex. juicy 3 vs bb7, but if you get a nicer hydro (juicy 5/7, codes, saints, hope mini mono ect) the hydro wins every time, but then again the cost is more so you have to weigh your options...

jeffgothro maybe you had/tried a set that were bled terribly or something, the only hydros ive ever used (well tried out lol im poor) blew my bb7s out of the water

and theres a reason why downhillers use hydros...


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

That could be, I havent used very many hydros, but the few I have tried - lock up, I personally dont like that, they work just a little too good for my taste..


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## the_godfather (Jan 19, 2007)

a decent set of hydro's are soooooooooooooooooooooooo much easier to get good modulation on than my bb7's are they are pretty much the best in the business. 
hydros are not always the best option. if you do ride DJ's why do you need a set of brakes with lots of modulation that costs quite a bit more and is more likely to break and more expensive to repair. The worst that will happen with a mech brake is that the cable will snap or you bend the disk. with a hydro if you snap the line, your screwed. brake fluid everywhere which generally strips paint


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

I don't need all the bells and whistles...BB7's are fine by me!


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Avid BB7 mechanical all the way.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

this is not mine....

http://austin.craigslist.org/bik/947678755.html

_Blk Mrkt Riot dirt jumping bike. - $1200 (Round Rock)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: [email protected] [?]
Date: 2008-12-06, 2:35PM CST

Blk Mrkt Riot 22"

Bike was bike shop mechanic owned and well taken care of.
Frame has been stripped, blued with gun blue and coated with a thin coat of oil. Easy to take care of and unique look.

Maverick SC-32 Fork
-new seals & fresh oil

The Shadow Conspiracy Torrid Cranks
-175mm, purple

Wheels
-Front Hub Maverick 24/7 32h Black on Mavic 819 Tubeless Rim
-Rear Chris King Heavy Duty with Fun Bolts, 32h Green on Mavic 823 Tubeless Rim
-Both wheels have Schwalbe Table Top 26x2.25 Tires
-extra set of Maxxis 26x2.4 Holy Rollers

Stem and Handlebars
-Blk Mrkt Underboss Stem, LO
-Blk Mrkt BadaBing Bars 26.0, 2"

Rear Brake
-Avid Code on 160mm rotor.

Pedals
-Well worn Odyssey J.C. Magnesium

Seat and Seatpost
-Animal All Day pivotal post
-Animal Stich pivotal seat

Misc
-Odyssey Aaron Ross Grips
-Animal Aluminum bar eng plugs

Asking $1200 or best offer. I am not willing to part this bike out for any reason. Send email with questions._


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

2 things I would change:

1. Dedicated SS rear wheel. if your gonna build up a DJ and have no plans for gears, go dedicated.

2. Profile cranks in place of Medials. I have personally seen one break right in front of me.

Other than that it looks good.


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

another option is get the complete riot and see if u can swap frames i talked to carter at black market a while back when i was going to do a super budget build and he was bascially going to set me up with a build kit and i was going to get a mob frame and then upgrade as stuff broke.that obviously never happened and now im $2300 or so into my build but hey i like it! i'll never go back to mech. brakes the hydros feel great and were super easy to install but different strokes for different folks! im gonna get rid of my fox f-series to try out the velvet r's ive heard great things about them! and the price? whats not to like about that!


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

Do I need a certain spindle length for my BB or will just a normal Profile euro BB work?


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## the_godfather (Jan 19, 2007)

Demo-9 said:


> 2 things I would change:
> 
> 1. Dedicated SS rear wheel. if your gonna build up a DJ and have no plans for gears, go dedicated.
> 
> ...


ive also seen some profiles break. i have both the profiles and the demolitions and i really cant tell any difference between them. i think the demolitions are lighter.

getting a dedicated SS rear wheel will mean that he cant buy the outlaw set which will greatly increase the cost with little gain. a well built wheel wont make a huge amount of difference whether its dished or not. i've never had to retrue my rear wheel since i built it. if you want to keep the cost low the outlaw wheel set is ace. if your not worried about spending a bit more then check out the NS bikes roller simple (assuming you're not running a front brake they also do one with a disk mount) with a pimplite, outlaw rim or mavic xm721 on the front. maybe a profile SS, hope pro 2 SS or last zakk rear hub again with a pimplite, outlaw or mavic xm721. (it may be the EX721 cant remember)


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## JFoster (Apr 6, 2005)

Use the code "jingle" at beyond and it will drop from 259 to 219 ! 

Merry christmas :thumbsup:


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

BIGDADDYRAT said:


> Do I need a certain spindle length for my BB or will just a normal Profile euro BB work?


The normal spindle which is 5.75" will work depending on your chainring size and thickness and what type of cranks/length. I went up to a 6" due to the thicker chainring (Tree) and 175mm cranks. I have a 24t so it cleared the stay but the Tree is almost 2x the width which takes up a bit more spindle length. But your set-up may not need the 6". The 5.75" will work for about 95% of the time.


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

worst case scenario u could get the 6" spindle and throw a spacer on there if needed but atleast you will have the option if u ever want to upgrade sprockets. and yes get the regular profile euro bb i have heard most people need the gold spacer that comes in the kit. so far well ive only ridden it a few times but so far my azonic wheel set with a $30 gusset single speed kit has been great for the price. btw keep in mind that 20" gear ratios dont work the same on 26" bikes!


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

forgot to mention if u go with outlaws for the wheel set u will need the rear momentum conversion axle for about $10. and remember when ordering from these places they price match. matter a fact to not have to order from tons of different places i just had beyond or jenson match other prices i got my small block 8 tires for only $28 ea.!


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## JGill (May 2, 2008)

You also may look into the Marzocchi 4X. It's a decent 4-4.5 pound 20mm fork. $399 isn't bad, I'd pick one up myself but I'd still need a new front hub and to buy/cut spokes too.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/FK303A14-Marzocchi+4X+World+Cup+08.aspx?sc=FRGL


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

norcaldj said:


> worst case scenario u could get the 6" spindle and throw a spacer on there if needed but atleast you will have the option if u ever want to upgrade sprockets. and yes get the regular profile euro bb i have heard most people need the gold spacer that comes in the kit. so far well ive only ridden it a few times but so far my azonic wheel set with a $30 gusset single speed kit has been great for the price. btw keep in mind that 20" gear ratios dont work the same on 26" bikes!


Do I need the single speed kit with the Outlaws? What gear ratio do you recommend? I was thinking 170mm crank arms and 28/12 gearing or 25/12 gearing...seems that is what most people are running on the Riots I've looked at.


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

Other than a seatpost shim for the post I want to use, does anyone see anything on my build that is going to require special attention


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## BIKESerFUN (Sep 5, 2007)

If light weight is wanted. Don't go chromoly Bmx cranks. Go with some 2-piece external MTB cranks. My XT's on my MOB kick my old profiles ass in both weight and performance. Just can't run a micro drivetrain....but why kid ourselves...we aren't riding twentys.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

BIKESerFUN said:


> If light weight is wanted. Don't go chromoly Bmx cranks. Go with some 2-piece external MTB cranks. My XT's on my MOB kick my old profiles ass in both weight and performance. Just can't run a micro drivetrain....but why kid ourselves...we aren't riding twentys.


Well... If you mount the ring in the granny position, and a bashring to the 104 BCD tabs, you could run microgearing. If you're using a 9 speed freehub with spacers, there should be plenty of chainline adjustment.

I've seen XT cranks with the 104BCD tabs cut off and a Eastern Medusa chainwheel modified slightly and bolted to the granny tabs.


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## dirtjumper202 (May 11, 2007)

BIGDADDYRAT said:


> Other than a seatpost shim for the post I want to use, does anyone see anything on my build that is going to require special attention


I know macneil makes 27.2 post you can order through a shop I'm pretty sure so you won't need a shim, ask "Demo-9" he runs on on his mob.

For a seat clamp get w/e you like Salsa and Hope are good.

Since your getting a complete wheel set, buy a Gusset double six single speed kit and in mtb I prefer a 2:1 ratio for gearing so I'd say run 25:12.

I would really consider getting the transition revolution wheel set, a guy I ride with went from bmx to mtb and trashed his outlaws in about a month hes had his revolutions for almost a year not w/o a problem. But who knows maybe it was just that set.

hope it helps

oh and check this out for maybe some inspiration


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Yep 27.2mm pivotal set-up. No shims needed.


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

BIKESerFUN said:


> If light weight is wanted. Don't go chromoly Bmx cranks. Go with some 2-piece external MTB cranks. My XT's on my MOB kick my old profiles ass in both weight and performance. Just can't run a micro drivetrain....but why kid ourselves...we aren't riding twentys.


I apreciate it but my rig will be sporting Profiles or Demolition Medial 2's for sure. Thanks though.


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

dirtjumper202 said:


> I know macneil makes 27.2 post you can order through a shop I'm pretty sure so you won't need a shim, ask "Demo-9" he runs on on his mob.
> 
> For a seat clamp get w/e you like Salsa and Hope are good.
> 
> ...


Yes and Thanks. But I still need to know if I need that single speed kit or not? Don't the Outlaws come with a 12t cog?


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

The Gusset SS kit is about the nicest one I have seen.


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

the smallest u can run on a stock outlaw hub is a 12t. i just went through all of this on my build. im using 25/12 and love it. i ended up getting my stuff from jenson cause they stock 12t cogs.

ss kit:http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/CS611B00-Gusset+Single+Speed+Conversion+Kit.aspx

12t cog:
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/CS407Z01-Dimension+Splined+Cog+For+Singlespeed.aspx

and u will need this:
http://www.beyondbikes.com/bb/SearchResult.asp

and your wheels will be setup. my profiles i bought in 175 but thats my personal pref. but with a titanium spindle they are pretty light.


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

BIGDADDYRAT said:


> I'm not afraid to admit that I am a "weight weenie"...so I want this bike to be light. I think I have it real close to what I want but I would still like to hear advice, suggestions, opinions and personal experiance. Please let me know what you think and "Thank You"!


Please excuse me, I don't ride urban or do much DJing, but coming from a person who races a Mob 4X in 4X and DS, from looking at your parts list, I can't see why you'd consider yourself a weight weenie - there are some very heavy parts on that list! I don't know the weight of all those parts, but I think those wheels alone are a pound too heavy! Those cranks are so heavy that they are also good for boat anchors. If you want light and strong, look into some Shimano Saints (the old ones are cheap now that the new ones are out).


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

I think I saw or herd someone got a Mob down to 21lbs - thats hella weight weenie light. (I could be wrong though)


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

Blaster1200 said:


> Please excuse me, I don't ride urban or do much DJing, but coming from a person who races a Mob 4X in 4X and DS, from looking at your parts list, I can't see why you'd consider yourself a weight weenie - there are some very heavy parts on that list! I don't know the weight of all those parts, but I think those wheels alone are a pound too heavy! Those cranks are so heavy that they are also good for boat anchors. If you want light and strong, look into some Shimano Saints (the old ones are cheap now that the new ones are out).


The crank and BB combo I'm using weighs in at just over 6oz. heavier than the Saints at half the cost. I think my build as it is will be right around 25-27lbs...that's a pretty light DJ build.


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

norcaldj said:


> the smallest u can run on a stock outlaw hub is a 12t. i just went through all of this on my build. im using 25/12 and love it. i ended up getting my stuff from jenson cause they stock 12t cogs.
> 
> ss kit:http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/CS611B00-Gusset+Single+Speed+Conversion+Kit.aspx
> 
> ...


Got it...thanks again!!!


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

BIGDADDYRAT said:


> The crank and BB combo I'm using weighs in at just over 6oz. heavier than the Saints at half the cost. I think my build as it is will be right around 25-27lbs...that's a pretty light DJ build.


I just read my previous post - I didn't mean to sounds as harsh as I did. Sorry.

Anyhow, six ounces is a lot. It's nearly half pound. I've been putting my DH bike on a diet, and I'm fighting for every 30 grams of weight reduction. If only I could lose 6 ounces by replacing one part!

By the way, I know you're getting this stuff new as gifts, but with the new Saints coming out, there are a lot of great deals on mildly used older Saints that would make it very worthwhile. Also, mailorder places such as Chain Reaction are selling the older Saints for as low as $141. How does that compare in price with what you're getting? http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=3404

The Outlaws are also a decent price, but you can get a set of DT 5.1 rims built around Hope hubs for just a little more from places like Chain Reaction or Wiggle, and you'll save a ton of weight (durability comparison is debatable).


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

Blaster1200 said:


> I just read my previous post - I didn't mean to sounds as harsh as I did. Sorry.
> 
> Anyhow, six ounces is a lot. It's nearly half pound. I've been putting my DH bike on a diet, and I'm fighting for every 30 grams of weight reduction. If only I could lose 6 ounces by replacing one part!
> 
> ...


No problem bro...did'nt think you were being harsh. One problem I have with the Saints is the drive train part of them. I really want to run a small sprocket up front, I've heard it can be done with them but it takes alot of work, I'm wanting to run 25/12 gearing. Can this be done with Saints? Also do you know about how much that wheelset you were speaking of would run...roughly? I've heard really good things about DT 5.1's, hopes and the Saint cranks for that matter. It's not that all of this build will be gifted to me, probably just the frame and some of the cheaper parts. The real deal for my some what limited budget is that I have a wife and 4 kids...that makes me at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to new toys. Also I still have not decided on a bar and stem combo...I'd like the bars to have a 2" rise and be 27"-28" wide, other than that I'm open to suggestions please.


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

jeffgothro said:


> I think I saw or herd someone got a Mob down to 21lbs - thats hella weight weenie light. (I could be wrong though)


i remember seeing something like that too. i think it was one of the featured bikes on the black market home page a while back, ridiculous!


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

XSL_WiLL said:


> I've seen XT cranks with the 104BCD tabs cut off and a Eastern Medusa chainwheel modified slightly and bolted to the granny tabs.


Very interested by this. Got a link, by chance?


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

norcaldj said:


> i remember seeing something like that too. i think it was one of the featured bikes on the black market home page a while back, ridiculous!


I remember the 21-ish Mob. I think the thread was called "How to take weight off the top" or something like that. Basically a rigid with ultralight stuff on it. Impressive but too light IMO.

I would recommend not using Saints for a 25t only. Personally if you want less than a 32t then go BMX cranks. I think a small chainring on the inner tabs of a MTB crank just looks aweful.


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## tibug (Dec 5, 2006)

jeffgothro said:


> You mean mechanical or the ones with fluid in them. I cant stand the ones with fluid, theres no modulation, they just lock up...I totally dig mechanicals though, I can feather those a bit and scrub my speed without full lock-up.


Hydraulic means fluid...and hydraulic brakes have better modulation.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

tibug said:


> Hydraulic means fluid...and hydraulic brakes have better modulation.


I dont call "locking up" better modulation in my book...but if you say so, more power to ya! :thumbsup:


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

O.K....so I did some more research and decided to change my bar stem combo again. For the weight, width and rise I want I've decided to run 2" Deity 25.4 bars and the new Deity Fantom stem...491g total.


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

jeffgothro said:


> I dont call "locking up" better modulation in my book...but if you say so, more power to ya! :thumbsup:


I would have to say that they were very poor hydro's.

IMO, if you aren't willing/can't fork over money for at least j7's, or something equivillent, then yes, stick to your bb7's. But until you have experienced what a real set of brakes has to offer, then you cannot sit there and bash them.

Also, if I had to say, I'd guess you were using the hydro's as "mechs" in the sense of how hard you were yanking on the lever. Hydro's are nice because they require such little effort to get the brake to work, etc. The saying still applys, different strokes for different folks. Some guys DH on bb7's, others want the newest, biggest, badest brakes around. its all preference, but bashing a product you haven't fully experienced, is uncalled for.


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

Hey guys...can we get back on track here. I'm still looking for some input on my build list. Parts experience, opinions and suggestions. I've already decided on the BB7's...so let's move on please. Keep the advice and suggestions coming.


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

What more do you want? List specific questions... 3 pages of opinions of riders, etc is a good amount. And they've already persuaded you out of quite a few parts. My input, its your bike, do as you please with it. I see nothing that is a "red flag" etc. Looks like a solid build. I would go with beefier parts in a few areas, but thats preferences


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## L4NE4 (Apr 24, 2007)

Demo-9 said:


> 2 things I would change:
> 
> 1. Dedicated SS rear wheel. if your gonna build up a DJ and have no plans for gears, go dedicated.
> 
> ...


OH no! youve seen a park break!?

I have profiles come into my shop broken or stripped every once in awhile too. However, there warranty/ service is amazing!


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

Parts breaking (assuming thats what you meant by "park break") is part of thrashing. It happens, but with certain parts/companies, its too common. I think thats where demo-9 was coming from.

2nd profiles amazing customer/warranty service


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

A Grove said:


> I would have to say that they were very poor hydro's.
> 
> IMO, if you aren't willing/can't fork over money for at least j7's, or something equivillent, then yes, stick to your bb7's. But until you have experienced what a real set of brakes has to offer, then you cannot sit there and bash them.
> 
> Also, if I had to say, I'd guess you were using the hydro's as "mechs" in the sense of how hard you were yanking on the lever. Hydro's are nice because they require such little effort to get the brake to work, etc. The saying still applys, different strokes for different folks. Some guys DH on bb7's, others want the newest, biggest, badest brakes around. its all preference, but bashing a product you haven't fully experienced, is uncalled for.


First off, who says I was bashing a particular brand?

Secondly, thats what I keep trying to tell you people, I've used REAL hydro bakes with REAL hydro fluid in the brakeline and every set I've ever tried locks up and me no likey. :nono:


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## L4NE4 (Apr 24, 2007)

A Grove said:


> Parts breaking (assuming thats what you meant by "park break") is part of thrashing. It happens, but with certain parts/companies, its too common. I think thats where demo-9 was coming from.
> 
> 2nd profiles amazing customer/warranty service


Agreed, some companies are just not worth trying

And im going to 3rd my 1st on profiles amazing customer/warranty service.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

I guess I didn't complete my thought. There were lots of people that had broken Medials right at the lower pedal thread weld. Then my buddy was riding his and noted something odd. Then snapola. 

I haven't seen many Profiles that have broken at that welded area. And agreed on the Profile CS. They are very good.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Yup, you may have seen the crank thread I posted a week and a half ago and I posted a pic of one of my profile crank arms - well, those profiles are going on if they arnt already ten years old or more.

(not sure how old as of I sold a bike they were on and bought it back years later - not sure if my friend changed them, he proabably didnt being the ones that I sold with the bike were all good)

Having said that my profiles could be up to 12-13 years old or go back to being as old as 95-96 (I know I bought them new - that would be 95-96) and they have been abused by myself and another person and they are still holding up. PROFILES ARE THE BOMB!!!


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## tibug (Dec 5, 2006)

jeffgothro said:


> First off, who says I was bashing a particular brand?
> 
> Secondly, thats what I keep trying to tell you people, I've used REAL hydro bakes with REAL hydro fluid in the brakeline and every set I've ever tried locks up and me no likey. :nono:


I doubt that. You didn't even know what "hydro" meant. You might have used hydraulic brakes before, but you obviously haven't set them up.


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## BIGDADDYRAT (Dec 7, 2008)

A Grove said:


> What more do you want? List specific questions... 3 pages of opinions of riders, etc is a good amount. And they've already persuaded you out of quite a few parts. My input, its your bike, do as you please with it. I see nothing that is a "red flag" etc. Looks like a solid build. I would go with beefier parts in a few areas, but thats preferences


Well that's exactly what I meant...is there any red flags or parts that just won't work but I guess not...that's all I needed to know!


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

tibug said:


> I doubt that. You didn't even know what "hydro" meant. You might have used hydraulic brakes before, but you obviously haven't set them up.


No, I havent set them up (quite honesly I'm not thrilled with the idea of a fluid fed brakes for obvious reasons anyway - breakage, failures, messy) and yes I do know what hydro means - I may not know the correct terminology in referring to hydro/mechanicals (I'm old school) but I assure you I know what they are. And, well, I've tryed bikes from bike shop show-room floors and the hydros lock up - obviously you arnt going to change my mind or make me think fluid hyros are "better" and untill I ride a bike with hydros that work like my mechanicals I will continue to favor mechanicals, so who dont you just leave it at that. Thanks. :thumbsup:


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## tibug (Dec 5, 2006)

jeffgothro said:


> No, I havent set them up (quite honesly I'm not thrilled with the idea of a fluid fed brakes for obvious reasons - breakage, failures, messy) and yes I do know what hydro means - I may not know the correct terminology (I'm old school) but I assure you I know what they are. And, well, I've tryed bikes from bike shop show-room floors and the hydros lock up - obviously you arnt going to change my mind or make me think fluid hyros are "better" and untill I ride a bike with hydros that work like my mechanicals, so who dont you just leave it at that. Thanks. :thumbsup:


Never said they were better. "Better" is personal preference. I said they had better modulation. In general, they do. I haven't tried or worked on Tektro hydraulics or most Hayes (only worked on the newer strokers), so I can't speak for them. But in general, hydraulic brakes have better modulation.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

tibug said:


> Never said they were better. "Better" is personal preference. I said they had better modulation. In general, they do. I haven't tried or worked on Tektro hydraulics or most Hayes (only worked on the newer strokers), so I can't speak for them. But in general, hydraulic brakes have better modulation.


Ok...fair enough. :thumbsup:

Mabie I have a misunderstand of how the word modulation is being used - when I use the word, what I mean by it is when I squeeze the brake lever of a mechanical I can just sqeeze it a little bit and the brake pad begins to rub on the disc just a little bit, now, the harder I squeeze the lever the more drag/pressure is put on the disc, allowing me to to slow down gradually. I dont find this to be the case with fluid hyros, no matter how little or how hard I squeeze the lever the brake pads lock-up on the disc usually causing me to skid the tires or even worse flip over the bars if I'm using the front and going fast enough.

Now, if this is just a misunderstanding, then my bad.


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## tibug (Dec 5, 2006)

jeffgothro said:


> Ok...fair enough. :thumbsup:
> 
> Mabie I have a misunderstand of how the word modulation is being used - when I use the word, what I mean by it is when I squeeze the brake lever of a mechanical I can just sqeeze it a little bit and the brake pad begins to rub on the disc just a little bit, now, the harder I squeeze the lever the more drag/pressure is put on the disc, allowing me to to slow down gradually. I dont find this to be the case with fluid hyros, no matter how little or how hard I squeeze the lever it the brake pads lock-up on the disc usually causing me to skid the tires.
> 
> Now, if this is just a misunderstanding, then my bad.


Oh, I see what you're doing. A Grove was right. Hydraulic brakes are really meant to be used with "one finger braking." You're just used to squeezing the lever harder, so that's how you like your brakes to modulate.

Legit...:thumbsup:


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

You got it.


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