# Rode a LEVO and it changed my mind.



## michaeldorian (Nov 17, 2006)

I had a chance to play around with the Specialized LEVO Turbo and it completely changed my view on these things. I really believe as these get lighter it is the future of the sport like it or not. 

I was surprised at how much it really felt like a normal mountain bike but with just your legs being stronger. It was super smooth and within 2 minutes I did not notice the power delivery at all. You pedaled and it went. You stopped and it coasted just like a normal bike. I'm ashamed to say but it made climbing really really fun. Like I was excited to climb up things. 

Imagine one of those magic carpet things at the airport. But instead of just standing on it, you walked and it just felt like you were walking smoother and faster. It's the exact same sensation as that. 

Going down hill it felt pretty nimble. Just like a regular bike. If anything you notice the 6fattie tires and had to get used to that. It was actually slightly slower and less playful then going down with my Insurgent. But still loads of fun. 

The main difference I noticed was when you backpedaled the cranks you just spin as oppose to the chain spinning backwards with you. The cranks spin freely. 

I hope we can make it so everyone can get along. Riding one opened my eyes. It's just plain fun. And it is clearly a bicycle. Rides like one. Feels like one. Goes down just the same. Not that much faster. Think magic carpet at the airport. 

Damn I want one. Just no where fun to ride one without the risk of getting beat up based on the consensus of the internet community.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

What area are you from; what are the laws?


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## Rock Surf (Aug 28, 2010)

I wouldn't ride it anymore. I heard there's a group of wild MTB purists waiting at the bottom of every trail in order to beat the **** out of ebike fakers. Best to stay on the Evil, and forget about it.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

michaeldorian said:


> I really believe as these get lighter it is the future of the sport like it or not.


The future of what sport? Not cycling.

So if it rides just like a bicycle, feels like a bicycle, goes down just the same, and isn't much faster why not just get a bicycle? Clearly it doesn't ride or feel like a real bicycle.

I'm glad you're stoked though and I'm sure it's fun. I promise not to beat you up unless I see you illegally riding one on our local trails. (jk)


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

The for/against argument regarding e-bikes will go on for ever.
I've ridden my wife's Cube hardtail e-bike and l have to agree that it is a lot of fun.

And in my opinion yes it's a mountain bike, just one that gets up hills quicker. I've had motorcycles and it's nothing, nothing, like a motorcycle.

Having said that l have gone back to my Foxy R.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Of course it's fun. That was never a debate as far as I knew. Doesn't mean it should be equal in all ways to a non motorized bike. Pretty cut and dry.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I've got little to no problem with e-bikes, but they are not the future of the mountain biking because they're not mountain bikes. Mountain bikes don't have motors, not even little ones.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

Not sure l am with you, but everybody is entitled to their opinion and as a regular mountain biker l can see why you'd think that.

l don't however see e-bikes being "the future" either.

They have been available for several years and l have yet to see a single one ridden on my local trails.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

That's because a decent one from a factory with a warranty still costs around $4000, if (and when) the costs come down a couple of thou that will change.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

E bikes will be there own sport and lots of new developments and growth we may be in the golden age of e bikes .


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## Speeder500 (Oct 9, 2012)

I'm a convert because while I loved riding a regular bicycle, I just didn't like the pedaling effort. This is what peaked my interest when I saw there were electric bikes. 

Ebikes are just so much fun and you can do so much more with them. I would say most people who try them will love them.

The best way to describe them is like riding downhill all the time, and who wouldn't want that?


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Speeder500 said:


> I'm a convert because while I loved riding a regular bicycle, I just didn't like the pedaling effort. This is what peaked my interest when I saw there were electric bikes.
> 
> Ebikes are just so much fun and you can do so much more with them. I would say most people who try them will love them.
> 
> The best way to describe them is like riding downhill all the time, and who wouldn't want that?


 Well, the Sweat and Pain Brigade are pretty certain that you didn't "earn" the right to have that sort of fun...... No matter where you are riding, legal or not, you are not Worthy.


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## Steezus (Jul 25, 2007)

WoodlandHills said:


> That's because a decent one from a factory with a warranty still costs around $4000, if (and when) the costs come down a couple of thou that will change.


So, like $2k cheaper than most of our carbon bikes we already own?


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Steezus said:


> So, like $2k cheaper than most of our carbon bikes we already own?


 Exactly. You didn't think that ebikers were going to already be bicyclists, did you? It's going to be a whole new group of people on the trails and paths in a few years once you can get a decent ebike at Walmart or Big 5. They are already in Cabelas and Bass Pro Shops....


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## Capt.Ogg (Jun 5, 2015)

Even if e-mtbs cost $500 I doubt many of them will see any trails. It still takes effort and a dedication to ride bikes on trails, even e-mtbs. They will have the same fate as the cheap mtbs - they will be ridden on streets and mups.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

WoodlandHills said:


> Exactly. You didn't think that ebikers were going to already be bicyclists, did you? It's going to be a whole new group of people on the trails and paths in a few years once you can get a decent ebike at Walmart or Big 5. They are already in Cabelas and Bass Pro Shops....


It'll be a mix. Current or new riders who buy a big name bike at the LBS, current riders who buy a kit and put it on an older, but still decent bike and new riders who either bolt a kit on a salvaged crap bike, or buy a crap big box ebike. The last group will get much farther on trails than riders on crap big box bikes now since, "Yay, motor!" but they will still be limited by fitness and equipement.

Your guess at the ratios of each is as good as mine.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Why not just get a motorcyle then? Even if e-mtbs cost $500 I doubt many of them will see any trails the last one really cracked me up lol .


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Speeder500 said:


> I'm a convert because while I loved riding a regular bicycle, I just didn't like the pedaling effort.


lol! That is rich.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Flucod said:


> Why not just get a motorcyle then?


Because you can't pose as a mountain biker and poach restricted trails with a regular motorcycle.


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## Speeder500 (Oct 9, 2012)

j.b. Weld said:


> because you can't pose as a mountain biker and poach restricted trails with a regular motorcycle.


lol


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## DannyvG (Apr 21, 2014)

Speeder500 said:


> I'm a convert because while I loved riding a regular bicycle, I just didn't like the pedaling effort. This is what peaked my interest when I saw there were electric bikes.
> 
> Ebikes are just so much fun and you can do so much more with them. I would say most people who try them will love them.
> 
> The best way to describe them is like riding downhill all the time, and who wouldn't want that?


those are the same reasons why I bought an ebike. Also now every ride is a fun ride because I am less limited by being fatigued or when I havent ridden for a while.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

rider95 said:


> Why not just get a motorcyle then? Even if e-mtbs cost $500 I doubt many of them will see any trails the last one really cracked me up lol .


 Because motorcycles are loud, heavy and smell bad. Did I mention that they are noisy too?


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

I can see your joy and agree, but it won't replace any of my existing rides, rather I use mine as a different machine for fun and commuting. It has expanded my areas I ride where I'm not allowed to ride moto I easily ride the e-bike, and have found no opposition yet.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

On Saturday l went out for a ride on my Foxy. My wife came along on the e-bike and it was great. She'd never do the routes around here on a regular bike, we tried and it just didn't happen. She's not a mountain biker and not into the challenge of steep hills and long climbs.
So we did 12 miles, l got home knackered from trying to keep up with her on the hills, so l had a good workout, and she was tired out too (as you do have to put some affort in on the e-bike)
So the e-bike has a place in our house.


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## sickdog (May 16, 2016)

No problem with e bikes...just keep them to trails open to motos and not a peep from me.....ya freakin lazy slacker posers 

I can't rock climb 5.11, but I don't advocate for some electronic device that allows me to hang with my friends because I'm not strong enough. 

Go hike with your wife or encourage her to get stronger. Self esteem and stuff like that.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

WoodlandHills said:


> Because motorcycles are loud, heavy and smell bad. Did I mention that they are noisy too?


I kinds like the smell (and sound) of a 2 stroke in the morning myself.

Smells like...victory.

:thumbsup:


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

sickdog said:


> No problem with e bikes...just keep them to trails open to motos and not a peep from me.....ya freakin lazy slacker posers
> 
> I can't rock climb 5.11, but I don't advocate for some electronic device that allows me to hang with my friends because I'm not strong enough.
> 
> Go hike with your wife or encourage her to get stronger. Self esteem and stuff like that.


Doesn't work like that l'm afraid.


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## Abagrizzli (May 28, 2012)

sickdog said:


> Go hike with your wife or encourage her to get stronger. Self esteem and stuff like that.


You're not a married man, obviously :ciappa:


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

Indeed.

We do hike/walk as well but l do a lot of mountain bike riding and it would be great if my wife would come along from time to time.

We've tried on regular bikes and tbh they just ended up dusty in the garage.

The e-bike gives her an incentive to come out with me as she actually enjoys riding it.

If a woman doesn't like doing something you are basically wasting your time pressing on with it


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## Abagrizzli (May 28, 2012)

lotusdriver said:


> If a woman doesn't like doing something you are basically wasting your time pressing on with it


Wasting your time - is the best case scenario. )))))))))))))))) In worst case scenario she will waste you )))))))))))))


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## michaeldorian (Nov 17, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> The future of what sport? Not cycling.
> 
> So if it rides just like a bicycle, feels like a bicycle, goes down just the same, and isn't much faster why not just get a bicycle? Clearly it doesn't ride or feel like a real bicycle.
> 
> I'm glad you're stoked though and I'm sure it's fun. I promise not to beat you up unless I see you illegally riding one on our local trails. (jk)


I don't own one. I rode a friends. Yeah it feels like a bicycle and is mostly about the same speed except you're only half and tired so you can ride more trail. So many trails require so much work for what a tiny bit of DH fun. Climb 2 hours and ride down for 15 minutes. The fun is being able to ride more.


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## Capt.Ogg (Jun 5, 2015)

michaeldorian said:


> So many trails require so much work for what a tiny bit of DH fun. Climb 2 hours and ride down for 15 minutes. The fun is being able to ride more.


If emtbs will ever be popular that's the reason and user group. Established riders looking for longer rides and a bit of help in long climbs. I don't believe trails will be flooded by total newbies as e-mountainbiking still requires some effort. Much easier to go road riding from your front door on a cheap motorcycle/ebike.


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## Speeder500 (Oct 9, 2012)

My Ebike has loads of power and downhill bicycle suspension on it.

On the single track, I really can't drive all that fast. I am almost limited to speeds of a regular bike.

I remember once while I was on the single track trails and saw a couple of regular mountain bikers riding crazy fast, I would have a hard time keeping up with them on my electric bike.

Single track speed is without doubt speed limited.

Where my bike would shine is only when I can drive straight and build up speed safely, or climbing.

It is ridiculous that regular bikers feel threatened by ebikes. Or that they do any more harm to trails. They are certainly not dirt bikes which will rip up the ground.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Speeder500 said:


> My Ebike has loads of power and downhill bicycle suspension on it.
> 
> On the single track, I really can't drive all that fast. I am almost limited to speeds of a regular bike.
> 
> ...


Sounds like your DH-like suspension isn't set up that well, you aren't riding DH tires, or you need to improve your skills.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

It's just early days. E bikes will nudge closer and closer to moto status (especially the DIY ones) unless manufacturers come up with some kind of agreed-on standard for max power/speed when running the assist.

By not doing that now, they're probably consigning themselves to niche status and blanket bans from existing singletrack. 

-Walt


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

In CA, Class 1, what most of us hope will be accepted universally and is already gaining favor, is 20 mph max assist and PAS only. Almost all manufacturers adhere to that standard (50 of the 52 Haibike models and AFAIK all Specialized and Trek). For the 2017 model year these bikes will need to be identified with some sort of sticker (I know pretty soon all the 3 billion watt ebikes will have illegal stickers too).

For the interest of those individuals who have seen eMTB's sending thousand pound divots all over the place: IMBA, which is solidly anti-ebike, is doing a study (may have been terminated) to "prove" that eMTB's are more damaging to trails than pMTB's. Initial results showed little if any difference. Oops!!!!!


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Fatbikes are well suited to ebike usage, the drag of big low pressure tires is not an real issue and with so much grip you never break traction..... A Class 1 eFatbike would have a much lighter footprint than 99% of the pMTBs I see and do less trail damage IMHO.


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## DannyvG (Apr 21, 2014)

Walt said:


> It's just early days. E bikes will nudge closer and closer to moto status (especially the DIY ones) unless manufacturers come up with some kind of agreed-on standard for max power/speed when running the assist.


The standard already exists, <750W and iirc <20mph above that no pedal assist.
In the eu it is only <250W.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

750W and 20mph will turn even relatively hard climbs into potential conflict zones with basically everyone. 

I mean, a fit adult human puts out ~250W. People need triple that as an "assist"?!?

The 250W max I could see being sort of reasonable on a trail, and maybe a 10mph max assist. Beyond that in a lot of places you're just asking for trouble. 

But really, the way things are going now, it doesn't matter. They're going to get banned fast (where they aren't already) at this rate.

-Walt


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Walt said:


> 750W and 20mph will turn even relatively hard climbs into potential conflict zones with basically everyone.
> 
> I mean, a fit adult human puts out ~250W. People need triple that as an "assist"?!?
> 
> ...


I don't think people understand this.

A couple weeks ago, when school was still in session, I took a KOM off a friend of mine that was a two-time USAC CAT1 19-29 XC champion, podium placer at collegiate nats, etc. He's now a pro on the road racing for the Lupus Racing Team.

My average power for the segment was 310w, normalized 360w, IIRC. Very rocky, rolling climb with a bunch of steep ups, short downs. I weigh 64kg most days. I'm a poor excuse for a "pro" XC racer.

Average speed for that climb was 13.6km/h, or just under 8.5mph.

Now, imagine more than doubling my power output. We're talking about speed that would be well into the 20mph+ range. Offroad, on a climb with 25% grades at some points.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> I don't think people understand this.
> 
> A couple weeks ago, when school was still in session, I took a KOM off a friend of mine that was a two-time USAC CAT1 19-29 XC champion, podium placer at collegiate nats, etc. He's now a pro on the road racing for the Lupus Racing Team.
> 
> ...


Actually, you'd be up to over a kW, right? That means instead of just scaring folks on the DH, we're going to have people coming around blind corners *uphill* at 15-20mph.

Again, average *downhill* speeds for a mediocre rider on a fast trail will only be 12-15mph with peaks up to 18-20. We're talking about turning *everything* into a speed conflict (especially on 2 way trails - imagine how much worse encountering a climbing rider will be).

I could get behind this if the assist was purely for climbing, and limited to speeds up to, say, 10mph. That would give all the benefits of increased range/enjoyment without basically putting everyone at risk everywhere.

Maybe people don't get how fast 20mph is. It's freaking screaming fast on a mountain bike on a trail.

-Walt


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I don't have a power meter, so I don't know what I'm pushing. I can only compare my efforts to others and reference an FTP test years ago. That said, I can push a decent amount of power/weight. But no where near as much as 750 watts for minutes on end. That can cause some serious issues on trail.

I'm fine with ebikes, though I have no issues with them. I enjoy climbing. I don't get a sense of accomplishment going DOWN hill. I feel accomplished by pushing my limits.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Yep. I should have said, "more than triple the power". Of a pro XC racer, albeit a poor one.

Guys will have to start wearing aero helmets out there.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

Your calculations are ridiculous. At the speeds and powers you guys estimate the motors will burn in a couple of minutes. Just ride a damn ebike for 5 minutes and stop wasting everyone's time with countless "SKY IS FALLING!" posts.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

So, you're saying the motor is NOT 750W, and the limit is NOT 20mph?

Even 100W of extra power puts you at fast pro speed. 

Of course people are going to ride them as fast as possible. 

-W


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

How are my calculations "ridiculous"?

Climbing speed is more or less the product of power and weight. Are you disputing this?

It boils down to watts/kg, and results in a very linear relationship until you get to around 17-18mph, then wind resistance becomes an increasingly important factor.

I.e., if you double the watt/kg ratio on a climb, you double the speed. 

Please feel free to find sources that contradict this.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

Just an example, Bosch motors are rated 250W continuous with momentary peaks of 400-500W limited by battery size. The motor comes from the power steering of an Audi A3 and can handle way more power with proper cooling but in ebikes they are severly castrated by software. They even had to ditch the plastic dustcovers to expose the metal motor housing to the air and added cooling finns in the latest PerformanceCX version which upped the torque from 60 to 75Nm. Still, they are not so efficient on steep climbs at low rpm which is why they use those unfortunate microdrive chainrings and force the user to permanently spin a 2.5x gear. In other more powerful DIY motors the limitation is usually the controller internals unable to handle drawing too many amps. Whichever way you cut it, there is a hard limit on how much energy you can carry and use at any given time. Lithium batteries are very much in the days of coal powered steam engines.

Those 100W puts you at fast pro speed if you have the fast pro BMI and ride an Sworks Epic. Add to that 25 pounds for the bike and 60-80 pounds for the rider and the gain is underwhelming.

Again, a 5 minutes test drive would spare us this embarassment of a conversation.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Apparently you've missed all of the videos of the guys that have modified those "severely castrated" motors.

Watch this.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

syl3 said:


> Just an example, Bosch motors are rated 250W continuous with momentary peaks of 400-500W limited by battery size. The motor comes from the power steering of an Audi A3 and can handle way more power with proper cooling but in ebikes they are severly castrated by software. They even had to ditch the plastic dustcovers to expose the metal motor housing to the air and added cooling finns in the latest PerformanceCX version which upped the torque from 60 to 75Nm. Still, they are not so efficient on steep climbs at low rpm which is why they use those unfortunate microdrive chainrings and force the user to permanently spin a 2.5x gear. In other more powerful DIY motors the limitation is usually the controller internals unable to handle drawing too many amps. Whichever way you cut it, there is a hard limit on how much energy you can carry and use at any given time. Lithium batteries are very much in the days of coal powered steam engines.
> 
> Those 100W puts you at fast pro speed if you have the fast pro BMI and ride an Sworks Epic. Add to that 25 pounds for the bike and 60-80 pounds for the rider and the gain is underwhelming.
> 
> Again, a 5 minutes test drive would spare us this embarassment of a conversation.


If like Europe, all the ebikes we'll see were 250W, I'd agree with you, I've been passed by plenty of those and with an average rider on them just sitting and spinning. So, if I was doing say 6mph on a climb, (I'm no racer), they were doing 8ish?. Did they pass me handily? Sure, did they blow my doors off? No. I was however, way closer to my limit than they were.

Except we're not talking about 250W motors, since we're in the US. The Levo (from the OP's thread) uses a 500W Brose (here:German Motor Foundry Brose To Offer S-Pedelec Mid-Drive - OverVolted - Electric Bike News Blog), our "limits" are 750W presumably nominal, and the ever popular Bfang BBSHD is 1000W or 1500W, according to the guy who sells a pile of them. Which is a different ballgame altogether, I doubt a fairly fit guy on a 1000W bike will only be doing 8mph uphill and not using pedal assist to max their speed in the flats. That's like having 2 Chris Froomes, one for each leg.

In Europe, they'd be mopeds.


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## Abagrizzli (May 28, 2012)

750W motor doesn't mean its output is a constant 750W. Depending on the used gear and PAS level, the output wattage can vary from 100W to 500W. Normal e-mtb rider on technical trail just not be able to reach the maximum output, and probably will be at the same wattage as skillful mtb rider, just with less effort.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Watch this.


Enlightening video. It's older and the tech has improved. The guy in the cotton hoodie is flying relative to regular mountain biking - see the people he blows past.

As the guy is giving us the pitch that this is not "a motorcycle but a freeride bike" - some key terminology he uses tells me he's a novice regarding bicycles. Worth reading the comments - boasting about the sustained mph they can achieve.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Carl Mega said:


> Enlightening video. It's older and the tech has improved. The guy in the cotton hoodie is flying relative to regular mountain biking - see the people he blows past.
> 
> As the guy is giving us the pitch that this is not "a motorcycle but a freeride bike" - some key terminology he uses tells me he's a novice regarding bicycles. Worth reading the comments - boasting about the sustained mph they can achieve.


He's not super experienced, here's a vid of him going over the build:






"Downtu..main frame bar" Makes me chuckle.

It's interesting that they no longer even sell that kit, the minimum now is 2400W.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I went out to a Specialized demo today in hopes of trying out a 6fatie only to find out they didn't have any along. Sooo I headed out for a loop on my Thunderbolt only to limp in after a few miles do to back issues, you know screws and bolts type issues. Anywho as I was packing up I noticed they where getting ready to go out on Levos so I thought I would grab one and tag along because it would kinda give me a feel for a plus bike which I was there for and help get me through the pain I was having. A short while into the ride we decided to see what they would do climbing and being in the midwest we don't really have extended climbs but we do have this one called Biatch 1. It's the kind of hill that doesn't look like much till you attack it and run out of gas half way up. Well I let er fly, bike on wide open and off I went but half way up I felt like I was pedaling a 40 pound tank till I backed of some and the motor pretty much took over. When I got back to the lot I was talking to the rep and found out the motor kicks out at 20mph, un friggen believable I am sure glad there was no one coming down as I blazed up. Sure it was double track but it sure opened my eyes to how dangerous these could be for the unsuspecting descender. On a side note this thing was a blast and one day my ability to ride will come to an end and when that time comes if there are motorized trails I could ride one on I would rock it. But till that time comes I will earn every mile I can with sweat and pain, that being said I can't actually believe I was reading posts where people just don't like to put the effort in, what a way to live.


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## JVG1967 (Feb 22, 2014)

bdundee said:


> I went out to a Specialized demo today in hopes of trying out a 6fatie only to find out they didn't have any along. Sooo I headed out for a loop on my Thunderbolt only to limp in after a few miles do to back issues, you know screws and bolts type issues. Anywho as I was packing up I noticed they where getting ready to go out on Levos so I thought I would grab one and tag along because it would kinda give me a feel for a plus bike which I was there for and help get me through the pain I was having. A short while into the ride we decided to see what they would do climbing and being in the midwest we don't really have extended climbs but we do have this one called Biatch 1. It's the kind of hill that doesn't look like much till you attack it and run out of gas half way up. Well I let er fly, bike on wide open and off I went but half way up I felt like I was pedaling a 40 pound tank till I backed of some and the motor pretty much took over. When I got back to the lot I was talking to the rep and found out the motor kicks out at 20mph, un friggen believable I am sure glad there was no one coming down as I blazed up. Sure it was double track but it sure opened my eyes to how dangerous these could be for the unsuspecting descender. On a side note this thing was a blast and one day my ability to ride will come to an end and when that time comes if there are motorized trails I could ride one on I would rock it. But till that time comes I will earn every mile I can with sweat and pain, that being said I can't actually believe I was reading posts where people just don't like to put the effort in, what a way to live.


Sorry dude, mean no offense but I call BS on this. No way your going to go up a hill so fast to exceed the 20mph motor cut off. I just bought the bike and with the weight of the bike and the 6Fattie tires, 20mph on flat ground is a stretch. The bike is not any more dangerous than a regular bike when ridden like an ass. Ride it sensibly and it's a blast and a lot of fun.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

JVG1967 said:


> Sorry dude, mean no offense but I call BS on this. No way your going to go up a hill so fast to exceed the 20mph motor cut off. I just bought the bike and with the weight of the bike and the 6Fattie tires, 20mph on flat ground is a stretch. The bike is not any more dangerous than a regular bike when ridden like an ass. Ride it sensibly and it's a blast and a lot of fun.


So you are telling me who you know nothing really about that I can't hit 20 mph on a slight hill with a motor behind me? Why did the motor kick out then?? BTW I'm 165 and train/ride everyday, I doubt you are the same type f person if you bought an e bike, sorry dude.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Dramatically increasing climbing speeds is, indeed, going to be bad on a lot of trails with 2 way traffic. It's *already* sketchy sometimes without any e-bikes involved (descending rider going 15+ mph, climbing rider going 8-10mph) and with extra speed on the climbs available, the closing speeds will rise dramatically. 

As I've said before, an assist that made climbing *easier* but not *faster* would be fine. 20mph limit is just insane, though.

-Walt


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Walt said:


> Dramatically increasing climbing speeds is, indeed, going to be bad on a lot of trails with 2 way traffic. It's *already* sketchy sometimes without any e-bikes involved (descending rider going 15+ mph, climbing rider going 8-10mph) and with extra speed on the climbs available, the closing speeds will rise dramatically.
> 
> As I've said before, an assist that made climbing *easier* but not *faster* would be fine. 20mph limit is just insane, though.
> 
> -Walt


And who knows maybe Specialized had these demos governed some and it wasn't actually 20mph but the rep didn't say anything of the sort. Without my gps one will never know.


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## JVG1967 (Feb 22, 2014)

bdundee said:


> So you are telling me who you know nothing really about that I can't hit 20 mph on a slight hill with a motor behind me? Why did the motor kick out then?? BTW I'm 165 and train/ride everyday, I doubt you are the same type f person if you bought an e bike, sorry dude.


Like I said I mean no offense. I ride regularly myself and also own a Trek Fuel EX 29er which is my regular ride. I bought the E MTB for the pure fun of riding it. I have found that to get the most of the motor assist you have to have a high cadence. Because of this, the weight of the bike, and the big fat tires, the average rider is not going to exceed the 20mph cutoff on any hill with decent elevation. Could a pro rider, sure it's possible but the average rider won't.


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## mojoronnie (Feb 26, 2012)

Rock Surf said:


> I wouldn't ride it anymore. I heard there's a group of wild MTB purists waiting at the bottom of every trail in order to beat the **** out of ebike fakers. Best to stay on the Evil, and forget about it.


Long time shredder here. Knee injuries from motocross have led me to look at e bikes. Rode the Levo today. I'm getting one, and I'm going to go shred whatever trail I choose to. If the purist don't like it, then that's their problem. Ride what you like, ride where ya like.


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