# ATV/4X4 Mud Holes: Close or Bridge?



## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

At my project property I've got quite a few 20'x50' mud holes that have been created by ATV and 4X4 in areas surrounding spring heads with little or no drainage. My organization wants to make these areas more sustainable, but repairing such holes means closing trails that are otherwise well compacted. 

Do we:

Close damaged trails and lose a few miles of already built trail.

or

Build cool bridges to span these areas, allowing bikers and hikers to view the reptiles and amphibians that call the mud holes their home?

By utilizing the already existing trail, we would cut the already low volume of unwanted users (atv's) down to zero, and extend the total number of MTB/Hiking trails on the property. It might also lend itself towards a beginner trail because of how flat the surrounding "good" trails are. 

However, building solid foundations for such structures may be difficult and costly. They might also require removal in the event the surrounding forest needs to be managed.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Turnpike/Causeways are permanent solutions, but alot of work and i'm not aware of what resources you have to make them. Raise the tread using dirt and rock would be my recommendation.


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## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

these are big deep mud holes. They'll probably dry out in summer, but to fill them in would require some serious fill.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

ATV's make great fill.


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## ramshackle (May 6, 2004)

"By utilizing the already existing trail, we would cut the already low volume of unwanted users (atv's) down to zero, and extend the total number of MTB/Hiking trails on the property."

Having trouble with this logic. If you still have ATVs in the area, they will continue to make mess, maybe even destroying your new structures. Never had any luck fighting these guys.


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## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

the bridges spanning these areas wold not be constructed until the MTB trail is mostly finished. By the time most the mountain bike guys should be scaring off the small number of ATV's using the property. 

I think part of the reason they use the land is because there is no way of controlling all the entrances (surrounded by residential). 

By placing new structure (not wide enough for them to ride on) directly down the middle of their favorite mud hole, and blocking off paths going around the those mud holes, they'll get the hint that its not their place anymore. 

Not only that, with hikers and bikers on the property with open eyes and posted "call this number if you see ATV's", the local ATV users will be worried of the police following them home.

I think we can control the non-permitted users, but its repairing their damage that is the challenge.


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## DParks (Oct 3, 2009)

You will have to be sure that the ATV's are unable to go around whatever you build over these mud holes. If they are not blocked adequately then your mudholes will become even wider as they just go around whatever has been built.

You didn't mention in your original post what kind of property this was. If the ATV and 4x4 use has been going on for years you may run into problems because they feel you are interfering with THEIR territory, just as you feel they are interfering with YOUR territory. A 4x4 with a chain has the ability to undo alot of work in a very short time. 

It would be well worth the time to know who owns the land and what use is allowed (and get it in writing if possible) then a quick visit to your friendly local law enforcement agency to find what kind of signage can be put up. Or politely ask if that area (parking lots, entrances to trails) be patrolled a bit more often.

Good Luck with your trails. Post some pictures with your solution. We'd all like to see them.


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## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

The organization I'm designing trails for owns the land. I'm being paid to design trails for them. Clear it up?


We have a small staff that can't really patrol more the property more than once a week average for most of the year. My organization (a land trust) owns 27 properties totally nearly 2,800 acres, but this property makes up a third of the overall owned land at 1,000 acres. We could have the local authorities monitor it, but they've got better things to do (especially since the local township sold us the land for that exact reason). 


Like I said, these structure are a late stage option. The trails leading to the mud holes will likely be closed prior to any further construction on them just to prevent damage between now and a year or so down the road when structure would be built. 

In the meantime we've got another 5-8 miles of trail to build around these areas.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

PaintPeelinPbody said:


> these are big deep mud holes. They'll probably dry out in summer, but to fill them in would require some serious fill.


Each hole would probably afford a different approach in my opinion.

Just to be clear i'm not recommending filling in the entire mud hole. Never the less, my recommendation does require lots of fill, again by not knowing what you have in the area, could you harvest enough rock for retention wall, and fill etc... i just don't know.

But those areas would provide a permanent fix unlike a bridge where you will have to return to the bridge every decade or so, to replace it.

i think it sounds like you want the bridges. Consider the long-term managing plan, maybe it would make sense to bridge some, re-work dirt and earth on others, and re-route a few... then consider which solution would work best for each mud hole. IF this is the case then why pigeon hole yourself into a single solution for many problem areas.


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## epic (Apr 16, 2005)

Something like this might work. See the Jeep floating in the middle there?
https://www.history.army.mil/images/artphoto/pripos/wwii-tideturns/OmahaBeach.jpg

edit: pulled out the image tags - too darn big and don't wanna mess up your thread


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