# Bags and accessories quality?



## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Some of my associates stand firm on the need to have the high end and expensive bags but I don't see any use where I have to depend on stuff like I did when I was a river guide. What is good stuff that doesn't break the bank?

I'm even more curious to know because some associates feel Ortlieb is good not enough but my Back Rollers have been great or at least all the quality I perceive needing. I've had their dry bags long ago and quality was fine.

All of my bikepacking plans are for relatively short trips and day trips. I'm looking at seat bags, handlebar bags and frame bags. 

Basically, do you really have to be spending a lot to avoid a rattling, wiggly, or unreliable? A good perspective might be I enjoy our basic but quality as well as our high end bikes. Kind of a Deore vs XTR or higher scenario.

Thanks for any input.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

in my world I would rather spend $200 once, than $20 10 times for something...I always try to buy for the long haul. That being said, some of the stuff I use is not bike-specific. For a while I was using an old dry-sack from when I hiked the AT back in the 90's as my handle bar bag. It did not look "fashionable", but I could submerge it in water and nothing in it got wet. It finally died a few years ago. I think I paid $50 for it at Benchmark back in 93.

I think you just do what is right for your situation. I personally am looking at Bedrock bags to replace or re-outfit some of what I need...I am also looking at a local place that makes bike courier bags to do some things for me as well.


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

Might help to know what you consider to be expensive. You mention Ortleibs as the "good enough" option, whereas I consider them to be high end. I'm sure there are more expensive bags, but I find Ortleib to be well-made, reliable, and functional, so I haven't looked very closely at more expensive options.

If I'm parsing the first sentence correctly, you're saying that reliability is not as big of a deal because the stakes are not as high as when you were a river guide? My feeling is that reliability is always a concern. It's especially important in bike-packing gear, because most of that gear is made to utilize every possible part of the bike for cargo. If one of my panniers fail, I can probably find another way to attach that gear to the rack. If my seatbag fails, and I have no rack, where does that gear go? It doesn't matter how long or how far I'm traveling. Even if it's an over-nighter, I still don't want to leave gear by the side of the road.

Basically I don't know what "expensive" means to you, but I feel like I've often spent more than necessary by buying cheap, and upgrading later. It may be a reasonably way to go, though, depending on your circumstances. I started out touring with cheap, wire baskets. They worked, but had limited capacity, and were heavy. Upgraded to cheap panniers. They had a lot of capacity, were lighter (still not light), and were fiddly to attach in a reliable way. Finally sprung for some Ortleibs. Still not light, but waterproof, high capacity, and great attachment system. At every step of the way, I bought what I could afford and was happy to have it because it got me on the road. But at every upgrade, I felt like I had made a good choice. Now my philosophy is to try and decide what my "final" upgrade will be, and just save my money for that. It's cheaper in the long run. But getting on the road now with what you can afford has a lot of value, too.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Rob_E said:


> Might help to know what you consider to be expensive. You mention Ortleibs as the "good enough" option, whereas I consider them to be high end. I'm sure there are more expensive bags, but I find Ortleib to be well-made, reliable, and functional, so I haven't looked very closely at more expensive options.
> 
> If I'm parsing the first sentence correctly, you're saying that reliability is not as big of a deal because the stakes are not as high as when you were a river guide? My feeling is that reliability is always a concern. It's especially important in bike-packing gear, because most of that gear is made to utilize every possible part of the bike for cargo. If one of my panniers fail, I can probably find another way to attach that gear to the rack. If my seatbag fails, and I have no rack, where does that gear go? It doesn't matter how long or how far I'm traveling. Even if it's an over-nighter, I still don't want to leave gear by the side of the road.
> 
> Basically I don't know what "expensive" means to you, but I feel like I've often spent more than necessary by buying cheap, and upgrading later. It may be a reasonably way to go, though, depending on your circumstances. I started out touring with cheap, wire baskets. They worked, but had limited capacity, and were heavy. Upgraded to cheap panniers. They had a lot of capacity, were lighter (still not light), and were fiddly to attach in a reliable way. Finally sprung for some Ortleibs. Still not light, but waterproof, high capacity, and great attachment system. At every step of the way, I bought what I could afford and was happy to have it because it got me on the road. But at every upgrade, I felt like I had made a good choice. Now my philosophy is to try and decide what my "final" upgrade will be, and just save my money for that. It's cheaper in the long run. But getting on the road now with what you can afford has a lot of value, too.


I consider Ortlieb high end. My surprise was some associates who don't. I'm really looking for that threshold where you get decent reliability and durability and not the ultimate. I'm completely with you that a seat bag has to attach well, and where I wondered if Topeak is too mass market grade.

Your saying "that final upgrade" is true too but I don't think every purchase has to be top end. Maybe bikepacking is too much of a small niche to have many choices. One where small businesses or a few are pretty much it.

Thank you.


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

bitflogger said:


> I consider Ortlieb high end. My surprise was some associates who don't. I'm really looking for that threshold where you get decent reliability and durability and not the ultimate.


There's always something better, or at least more expensive. I think generally there's a level where workmanship is not great, then there's a level where workmanship is fine, but maybe it's not so well thought out, and then you add features. The more features, the more money. And what features you "need" or what holds value for you is pretty personal. I had a set of Nashbar panniers that were fine. I had no qualms about the quality, and I had no concern that they would fail. They were very inexpensive, and I could have stopped there and could still be using them. But they weren't waterproof, which was a feature I wanted, and they were tricky to put on, at least keep on, the rack. And once they were on, they were a pain to remove. It was a struggle to justify the purchase of some Ortleibs because I had something the appeared to be fairly reliable and durable, but I wanted more features. Once I finally broke down and bought the Ortleibs, I had no regrets. They go on and off the bike with ease, adjust easily, and they are waterproof. I know there are more expensive bags with better/more/other features: lighter fabric, compartments, stylish, etc. Some of those features appeal to me, some do not. None of those features appeal to me to the point where I'm going to buy more expensive panniers. Ortleib is my threshhold. I would completely understand if someone else was perfectly happy with the Nashbars. It's too personal to draw a universal line between "good enough" and everything else.



bitflogger said:


> I'm completely with you that a seat bag has to attach well, and where I wondered if Topeak is too mass market grade.


I guess we'll need some reviews of Topeak's bikepacking gear before me know. For my part, I find that they make good, well-thought-out products, but some items don't last as long as I think they should given their price point. However, the Topeak items I have that have broken have usually been replaced with other Topeak items, so I guess I figure the reliability issues are outweighed by the utility issues. Usually. When my commuter bag broke, it wasn't a big deal, and I was happy to buy another. When my basket dented with little or no abuse, it still functioned as a basket, so no big deal. When my portable pump stopped pumping, and I learned about it on the side of the road trying to fix a flat, that was a bigger deal, and I decided to try another brand. Now they've moved into bikepacking, and they're a smart company. They probably know that a good attachment system and reliability are key, but I'll wait for the reviews. My opinion of Topeak is to count on them to be clever, and count on them to be functional, but don't count on them to last. But that's one person's experience. When it comes to bikepacking, having stuff that's reliable and that lasts is important to me, and there are plenty of company's that have that reputation. I don't feel the need to be guinea pig for Topeak's line.



bitflogger said:


> Your saying "that final upgrade" is true too but I don't think every purchase has to be top end. Maybe bikepacking is too much of a small niche to have many choices. One where small businesses or a few are pretty much it.


No, not every purchase has to be top end. But what constitutes top end is subjective. And what you want out of your gear is personal. Bikepacking gear is getting more mainstream, and some of the more popular gear-vendors are getting in on it: Topeak, Specialized, Ortleib. Some of that is likely of good quality, some of it we don't know yet. But I think they're still playing catch up with the cottage vendors who have been doing this a while. And it also depends on how sensitive you are to the price differences. I look at the Topeak offerings, and the prices don't look cheap. If I'm going to pay that much, then I might as well pay a little more for exactly what I want. At this point I've bought and rebought enough gear that I have a pretty good idea what my criteria is. I feel pretty confident, when looking at the options, of which items I'm going to be satisfied with, and which items I will want to upgrade later, and I try to avoid the second category and just wait until I can afford the upgraded version. I can't, however, make the same judgements about anyone else's gear choices.


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## triathloner (Apr 5, 2008)

I am looking for pretty much the same thing you are for short trips. I have not purchased yet but was looking at the very affordability of Alpkit products. I want to try them but would love to hear from someone that has them. Anybody have any experience with their bags???


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## tahic (Jul 21, 2008)

Alpkit are well worth considering I have some of their stuff and it is very good quality for the money and perfectly functional. I have a handlebar bag and feed bags, plus one of their rear drybags. Its certainly on a par with my old revelate stuff and much cheaper. The newer revelate stuff is now waterproof but none of my stuff was. Frame and top tube I use BikeBagDude ..higher quality and higher cost but for me offer the customer support and custom function I wanted.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

triathloner said:


> I am looking for pretty much the same thing you are for short trips. I have not purchased yet but was looking at the very affordability of Alpkit products. I want to try them but would love to hear from someone that has them. Anybody have any experience with their bags???


I have done some more homework and the Alpkit vs Topeak weight issue isn't so big when you consider Alpkit selling dry bag separately and Topeak including it.



tahic said:


> Alpkit are well worth considering I have some of their stuff and it is very good quality for the money and perfectly functional. I have a handlebar bag and feed bags, plus one of their rear drybags. Its certainly on a par with my old revelate stuff and much cheaper. The newer revelate stuff is now waterproof but none of my stuff was. Frame and top tube I use BikeBagDude ..higher quality and higher cost but for me offer the customer support and custom function I wanted.


Thanks for the input and another maker to look at.

I'm going to divide parts of this first world problem in a few ways. Get something modestly priced and soon if only to satisfy rides and a teenage son who doesn't do hydration packs, something for a biking family to carry tools when their mechanic - me - isn't with them. Next is laying out the lighter weight camping stuff I have and figuring out capacity needed for a bigger purchase or commitment.

One more twist is my Salsa fork's "3-pack" mounts and their rack items for it look like a good way to carry things. Lots of homework and things to think about.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

You won't hit a homer the first time, so proceed modestly at first and try stuff out a lot. Lots of variables, including the bike and terrain. Enjoy!


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## 101 (Nov 14, 2017)

I've learned some hard lessons over the years not buying the best gear I could afford and then having to replace it. "Buy once, cry once." Or, consider: what if the title of this thread were "bike and component quality"? I never considered the lower end bikepack brands, especially not the generic stuff made by larger companies. Customer support goes a long ways. You buy from any of the boutique brands, you're customer support will most likely be handled by the owner. So, if you outfit your ride with, say, Bedrock, Oveja Negra, Revelate or Porcelain Rocket, you're looking at $500-800+ for a bikepacking setup. If you're looking to save money, cruise the classifieds for used gear and watch the above websites for factory seconds. In that case, you could cut the savings down by 50-60%. I live in the same town as one of these manufacturers so I suppose I'm a bit partial, but I'm also really hard on gear and expect it to hold up. I have also freely loaned out my bags to friends across the country so they can experiment with bikepacking gear and all of them ended up buying high end brands: Bikepacking gear designed and made by hardcore bikepackers -anything short of that is comparatively junk. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

My take? Get what works for you. I have the Revelate medium frame bag. Works well, straps are well thought out, waterproof and functional. Off the shelf, perfect fit for my Karate Monkey. REI on sale, not huge money. My " handlebar bag" was a canvas 7 x 9x 22" bag from an army navy store, zip tied to my bar ends. Worked good enough, some wiggle, not waterproof, so I put stuff in there that could get wet. Are you riding 5-10 days a year or 40? Days from civilization or can hit town the next day. Harder yet is, how much stuff and how to carry, for me that changes every trip. Look for versatility. My take anyway. I did pick up a Topeak seatbag, 8 L I think, used from the REI garage sale, will report back after a trip.


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## Bradym77 (Nov 22, 2011)

Quality product, versatile.
Cheap.
Lightweight.

Choose two.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bitflogger said:


> Basically, do you really have to be spending a lot to avoid a rattling, wiggly, or unreliable? A good perspective might be I enjoy our basic but quality as well as our high end bikes. Kind of a Deore vs XTR or higher scenario.
> 
> Thanks for any input.


I've bikepacked with folks that bought high end bags like Porcelain Rocket as well as cheaper stuff like those Russian bags [forgot name] and knock off bags like the ones Specialized/Giant make.

The high end stuff works as advertised and those folks get on with their rides. The cheaper/knockoff bags have had issues every time. Did it end the rides for those folks nope, but the last thing I want to do is futz with my gear all tour.

Unless you can tour for many months a year the higher end bags will last you essentially forever with a bit of care so it a long-term investment.

If I was on a budget I'd top notch bags and lower cost components for my bike. A SLX derailleur shifts just fine vs. a XTR model.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

All the bike packing gear is pretty basic and minimalist, the better stuff even more so. 

The cheapest way to outfit yourself is to do it once.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Following up some time later.... After both Relevate bags in REI stock had crooked sewn straps and didn't go on bike nicely I got a discounted floor model Topeak frame bag. That was added to already sharing a Topeak seat bag big enough to hold a pump tube, multi-tool and even a smaller lock with my wife and my teenage son who rides a lot.

Anyone who points out the stuff is not made in USA, not with ultimate features and not with ultimate water resistance or zippers is right. Anyone who thinks don't waste your money is wrong. The stuff has been fine for lots of use. It's not leaving expensive stuff on the bike to steal when we commute. It's a great way to spend when your bike purchases are accommodating a family of riders and broad needs.

More dropper post friendly options coming along are another reason I'm glad I did not spend too much when I first posted this. I still have interest in some better bags and will probably commit to something dropper post friendly by snow bike season.

In a way I approached this in same delay gratification and check out lot of stuff way I feel about bike purchases. I also wonder about those two Revelate bags with the straps sewn so crooked from each other. I realize we don't need perfection here but they were enough crooked to show and make tightening the bags on frame a bother.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

I picked Ortlieb bikepacking bags because of the weather I am riding in. I am in Vancouver BC Canada. Most of the time is wet and unpleasant. However, we have long stretches of sunny and warm weather and Ortlieb bags are again so good. Only water resistant bags are my Revelate feed bags but it is not big deal. I didn't have a opportunity to see other USA made bags but they must be great.

If you have enough funds buy high quality framebag and seat bag. Use waterproof Outdoor Research bag as handlebar bag or make your own. Use bungee cords. It works.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Zoran said:


> I picked Ortlieb bikepacking bags because of the weather I am riding in. I am in Vancouver BC Canada. Most of the time is wet and unpleasant. However, we have long stretches of sunny and warm weather and Ortlieb bags are again so good. Only water resistant bags are my Revelate feed bags but it is not big deal. I didn't have a opportunity to see other USA made bags but they must be great.
> 
> If you have enough funds buy high quality framebag and seat bag. Use waterproof Outdoor Research bag as handlebar bag or make your own. Use bungee cords. It works.


Good tip with the latter point. In all my deciding what I wanted a year ago I started strapping an inexpensive general purpose waterproof bag to the rack on our Fargo. It works well and the biggest cost was time spent digging it out of river and water sports stuff.


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## c_kyle (Sep 2, 2005)

I have experience using several brands of bikepacking bags; Revelate, Oveja Negra, Nuclear Sunrise, Andrew the Maker, Swift Industries and Bedrock Bags. 

Revelate makes good bags that are readily available and on the low-medium end of the pricing spectrum. I have a saddle bag that is pretty bomb-proof, a half-frame bag, two sets of feed bags, a gas tank bag and two front roll harness systems with the front pocket. The feed bags and the older-style front pocket are the best designs of any of their type I've used so far.

I have a Nuclear Sunrise frame bag and would not pay for one again; the construction and material are just ok and the price is on the low end. I believe this frame bag will fall apart pretty soon. Based on the frame bag, I wouldn't buy anything else from them.

Bedrock Bags makes some awesome stuff. My newest bikepacking saddle bag and front harness/roll/pocket is from Bedrock. The quality looks really good. Bedrock pricing is medium-high.

Oveja Negra. I know I just said my newest stuff is Bedrock; but Oveja Negra is my goto company. Their saddle bags, frame bags and top tube bags are absolutely bombproof and the construction and material is just several steps above everything else. I don't know about their front roll/pocket...I've seen one in person and the guy didn't like it. Also, my only gripe is they refuse to add a cable port into their top tube bag. I've asked several times. They made me a custom mini-saddle bag; but wont put a port in a top tube bag, lol.

Rogue Panda makes some nice stuff too. I have a few accessory type bags and they're pretty good quality...equal to Bedrock I'd say. The pricing is medium. RP currently produces, IMO, what might be the best roll-top frame bag. I'm in the process of ordering one if they'll return my email. They also have some rad custom xpac in dinosaurs, lol; which my little boy will like. 

Andrew the Maker has some interesting, quality bags. I have a few accessory pouches and they're good quality. Pricing is medium-high.

Swift Industries makes great stuff if you're into rando-type bags, panniers and cordura fabric. Pricing is medium-high to real high if you're looking at panniers and a rando front bag.

Porcelain Rocket...good luck actually getting any of this stuff. I have an Albert dropper seat bag and it's great. High-very high pricing and no more custom work. 

Now that I've typed all that, I realize my wife is right, I'm a bag-whore, lol.

Anyways, since the thread was brought back, that's my input; hope it helps.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

c_kyle said:


> I have experience using several brands of bikepacking bags; Revelate, Oveja Negra, Nuclear Sunrise, Andrew the Maker, Swift Industries and Bedrock Bags.
> 
> Revelate makes good bags that are readily available and on the low-medium end of the pricing spectrum. I have a saddle bag that is pretty bomb-proof, a half-frame bag, two sets of feed bags, a gas tank bag and two front roll harness systems with the front pocket. The feed bags and the older-style front pocket are the best designs of any of their type I've used so far.
> 
> ...


great post!!!

I have been going back and forth between Oveja Negra and Relevate. I have an OG Surly Krampus, so I was thinking of the Relevate frame bag made for Surly, and ON everything else...but still just might go the whole ON route if they can fit a frame bag for my Surly, which I am pretty sure I can.

Also checked out Andrew the MAker and really like that stuff too


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## MR. ED (Aug 19, 2006)

I've got a few Revelate bags that have been great-Tangle and Gas Tank(?). I also picked up a Bedrock full size frame bag on sale for my Krampus. They've all been used consistently for several seasons now. I'm now anxiously awaiting a frame bag for my Deadwood from Broad Fork. Anyway I think any bag is a great bag, worth it to keep the weight off of me.


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## c_kyle (Sep 2, 2005)

sXeXBMXer said:


> great post!!!
> 
> I have been going back and forth between Oveja Negra and Relevate. I have an OG Surly Krampus, so I was thinking of the Relevate frame bag made for Surly, and ON everything else...but still just might go the whole ON route if they can fit a frame bag for my Surly, which I am pretty sure I can.
> 
> Also checked out Andrew the MAker and really like that stuff too


Between ON and Revelate, I would go with the premade Revelate frame bag for your frame if they have one, Revelate front harness/roll system with pocket and the newer style Revelate feedbags that allow one-handed opening and closing. Then ON seat bag and top tube bag. Both of those are superior to the Revelate counterparts, I think. The xpac used on the seat bag is totally waterproof and very durable. I never use drybags with the ON seatbag, am constantly in rain and water down here in Florida, and have never had any moisture in the seat bag.

Also, I just ordered Rogue Panda's roll top frame bag in that awesome dinosaur xpac, lol.


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

Bikepacking used to be all about MYOG. How about you learn to sew.


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## MR. ED (Aug 19, 2006)

Oh I can sew up a storm, my mother's a seamstress. I spend all my money on bikes. Maybe Santa will drop a machine under the tree this year


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## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

c_kyle said:


> Also, I just ordered Rogue Panda's roll top frame bag in that awesome dinosaur xpac, lol.


Interesting.
How did you choose between Rogue Panda's roll top frame bag and the Porcelain Rocket 52Hz?


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## c_kyle (Sep 2, 2005)

rifraf said:


> Interesting.
> How did you choose between Rogue Panda's roll top frame bag and the Porcelain Rocket 52Hz?


Well, if I'm paying $200+ for a frame bag, I don't want a stock size. I want it to fit the best it can. Second, I don't like the seam welded plasticy material. I have an Albert dropper that has a bag made of that material. It's durable; but the inside is weird. My quilt, jacket and anything else I try to stuff in there grips the material of the bag...if that makes sense. Third, dinosaur xpac, hahah.


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## Slbear (Sep 17, 2018)

c_kyle said:


> Well, if I'm paying $200+ for a frame bag, I don't want a stock size. I want it to fit the best it can. Second, I don't like the seam welded plasticy material. I have an Albert dropper that has a bag made of that material. It's durable; but the inside is weird. My quilt, jacket and anything else I try to stuff in there grips the material of the bag...if that makes sense. Third, dinosaur xpac, hahah.


I was about the pull the trigger on some bags, including the Rogue Panda roll top frame bag. I'm not going for the dinosaur xpac - but kudos for your choice. Looking forward to some pics when you get it.

I was deciding between xpac and Liteskin. I'm a little worried not having seen/felt liteskin. I don't think it's the same as the Porcelain Rocket material you mentioned, but I'd be dissappointed if it was "plasticky". Has anyone used the Liteskin before? Any reason to pick it over xpac or vice versa?

I was also planning to get some feedbags, The short list includes the Bedrock Bags TapEats and Rockgeist Honeypot, just based on availability and the dark camo color. Seems like there are all kinds of good choices here.

Seat bag comes last, but definitely appreciate the feedback in the thread. ON Gearjammer and Snackpack look really nice, so thanks again for the advice.


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## c_kyle (Sep 2, 2005)

Slbear said:


> I was about the pull the trigger on some bags, including the Rogue Panda roll top frame bag. I'm not going for the dinosaur xpac - but kudos for your choice. Looking forward to some pics when you get it.
> 
> I was deciding between xpac and Liteskin. I'm a little worried not having seen/felt liteskin. I don't think it's the same as the Porcelain Rocket material you mentioned, but I'd be dissappointed if it was "plasticky". Has anyone used the Liteskin before? Any reason to pick it over xpac or vice versa?
> 
> ...


I don't have personal experience with liteskin; but did talk to Nick at Rogue Panda about it. He said it's a little thinner denier than the dinosaur xpac (which is slightly thinner denier than regular xpac) and is supposed to be more abrasion resistant than xpac; but in his experience doesn't seem to be better/worse. You cannot seam seal liteskin, but it does have DWR finish on the outside of the fabric.

Something I've noticed about xpac is the xpac used by Oveja Negra has a coating on the inside. I don't know what this is, or if it's a different model of xpac; but it's completely waterproof. The xpac from Bedrock and Nuclear Sunrise does not have this coating and feels like thinner fabric.

Here's a link to what the inside of my ON xpac stuff looks like: X33 - 330 Denier X-Pac™ Expedition Series Laminated CORDURA® Nylon Fabric - MultiCam® Camo

As far as feedbags, I only have experience with the first generation of Revelate feedbags and the the new feed bags; which are an improvement. The one-handed opening/closing is an excellent feature, as well as the mesh pockets around the outside. You can stuff lots of things in there. It's where I usually carry eye drops, sun block, chapstick and a small folding knife. The other one gets trash and stuff shoved in the outside.


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## NickSmolinske (Mar 8, 2008)

c_kyle said:


> Something I've noticed about xpac is the xpac used by Oveja Negra has a coating on the inside. I don't know what this is, or if it's a different model of xpac; but it's completely waterproof. The xpac from Bedrock and Nuclear Sunrise does not have this coating and feels like thinner fabric.


It's just a different type of Xpac, but the other Xpac variants also have a totally waterproof layer (it's just protected under a liner fabric, and it's half the thickness). I'm not sure why Dimension-Polyant chose to do some variants with the exposed waterproof layer - maybe because it's a bit lighter and those variants have heavier base fabrics so it compensates somewhat for that.

Can't wait to make your Dinosaur rolltop! I'm glad to hear you like our rolltop design. I put countless hours of thought into it, and there are lots of little design tweaks that make it more functional and water resistant.

I'm gonna make a Dino Dual Compartment for my fixie sometime soon ... I love that pattern.


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## c_kyle (Sep 2, 2005)

NickSmolinske said:


> It's just a different type of Xpac, but the other Xpac variants also have a totally waterproof layer (it's just protected under a liner fabric, and it's half the thickness). I'm not sure why Dimension-Polyant chose to do some variants with the exposed waterproof layer - maybe because it's a bit lighter and those variants have heavier base fabrics so it compensates somewhat for that.
> 
> Can't wait to make your Dinosaur rolltop! I'm glad to hear you like our rolltop design. I put countless hours of thought into it, and there are lots of little design tweaks that make it more functional and water resistant.
> 
> I'm gonna make a Dino Dual Compartment for my fixie sometime soon ... I love that pattern.


I can't wait either. My new frame is supposed to ship this week. I get measurement pics over to you as soon as I can. Thanks, Nick.


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## biscut (Sep 11, 2015)

I go buy once cry once. I use Arkel and Relevate a lot for a few reasons. Hate paying the price but their customer service is solid. When you make quality and durable gear customer service is easier. 

But I also clean and care for my gear. I will use it til it dies and am ok if it looks like it’s been to hell. 

I also go higher end due to riding New England an NY in winter. I’ve been a winter Mt guy for 25 years. Being cold on a Mt makes me an always prepared kinda guy .


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## biscut (Sep 11, 2015)

Meant to ask...Rockgeist? Anyone using them? I was considering a frame bag for my fatty...


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## c_kyle (Sep 2, 2005)

biscut said:


> Meant to ask...Rockgeist? Anyone using them? I was considering a frame bag for my fatty...


It looks like good stuff; but I don't have personal experience with it. I like their steerer tube spacer thing to connect toptube and feed bags to.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

biscut said:


> Meant to ask...Rockgeist? Anyone using them? I was considering a frame bag for my fatty...


I met the owner of Rockgeist recently. Pretty cool company, but I don't have any hands-on with their products yet. They recently started up a rental operation so you can "try before you buy" if that's more your style.

So far I've just got a Revelate seat bag and sweetroll, and a gas tank bag from Blackburn. Bags from both mfrs seem fairly solidly midlevel quality-wise. I've seen some super cheap products floating around that I'd never touch. I am building up a 29er hardtail that I intend to use for bikepacking, and I'll probably have Rockgeist make me a custom frame bag for it. Mostly because they're local and I can stop by the shop so they can measure up my frame, and put hands on some of the product. Might also look at one of their dropper-friendly seat bags, too.


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## Addy Marx (Jul 18, 2009)

Co-opski said:


> Bikepacking used to be all about MYOG. How about you learn to sew.


That's what I did. Best thing I could've done to help pursue this bikepacking thing to the level I've been fortunate enough to:thumbsup:

Creating your own designs, experimenting with new materials, refining, it's all very fulfilling. It's satisfying when you finish a trip or a race and things worked just as you thought they would. 
Now if I could build my own frame...


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## c_kyle (Sep 2, 2005)

I'll try to get some pics up of my RP dinosaur bags. They've been great for the two trips I've been on so far.


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## Slbear (Sep 17, 2018)

I thought I had posted pics to this thread, but it must have been another. Here is my custom Rogue Panda California roll-top bag on my Salsa Fargo. Nick and Robert were super helpful and patient as I decided on the design/colors, fabrics and options. Then they jumped on it so I could pick it up on a trip through Flagstaff for Thanksgiving. It took me some time to seam seal it, but now it's installed and fits perfectly.

This matches well with the Bedrock and Rockgeist handlebar/stem bags I also got based on replies to this thread. The honey pot has the gray xpac top as requested to match the color scheme. I'll probably be looking for a seat bag to match eventually too.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Co-opski said:


> Bikepacking used to be all about MYOG. How about you learn to sew.


Economics..... Even with mechanical aptitude and love of doing stuff with my hands, I get far more time on a bike or skis, or in the water or in a boat if most of my work is being an IT pro and I trade money for the goods and services other specialists have to offer.

My first bike packing was mid-1970s and it wasn't most riders taking to a sewing machine. We lived with what the shops had. In my case simple British bags sometimes made of leather and I remember Cannondale had lighter and not very waterproof stuff when those Bugger trailers were a thing.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

bitflogger said:


> Economics..... Even with mechanical aptitude and love of doing stuff with my hands, I get far more time on a bike or skis, or in the water or in a boat if most of my work is being an IT pro and I trade money for the goods and services other specialists have to offer.
> 
> My first bike packing was mid-1970s and it wasn't most riders taking to a sewing machine. We lived with what the shops had. In my case simple British bags sometimes made of leather and I remember Cannondale had lighter and not very waterproof stuff when those Bugger trailers were a thing.
> 
> View attachment 1241488


Bitflogger: What a blast from the past that photo is! Those exact same Cannondale front panniers still survive on my old Motobecane Grand Touring, as does the Cannondale handlebar bag and the Kirtland Tour Pak rear panniers; down in the basement as I write this. Looking at that Cannondale, decked out like that, we're looking at a top tier state of the art touring bike, circa mid to late 70's, a rig set up for long days in the saddle, going anywhere! That photo reminds me of how much has been lost, as well. Cannondale is no longer made in Pennsylvania, USA as yours and mine gear (and your bike there) once were.

These days, I'm an Ortlieb convert, on both my Fatboy and Haibike Full Fatsix.....

























The only thing I've seen with Ortlieb is that they change color combinations after a year or two; then they discontinue that color...


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## Oylerz (Nov 16, 2018)

Co-opski said:


> Bikepacking used to be all about MYOG. How about you learn to sew.


Yep! Although, some things are easier said than done. I have made two frame bags (one for my fattie - a zip up and one for my rigid 29er - a roll top) and a bar harness so far. I am staying away from the complexity of designing and constructing a seat bag that will not sag or sway.

Still working out what exactly I want/need, but I believe I have narrowed it down to a Revelate Terrapin, a Porcelain Rocket Mr Fusion, an Arkel Seatpacker or I may go the less $ route and try out a Topeak Backloader for less than 1/2 the price of the others.

My dream setup would be from Rockgeist a custom Mudlust frame bag, Barjam harness, Apogee bag and two Honeypots with the spacelink system. The seat bag would be one of the above seat bags, though I'm not sure which.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

MikeTowpathTraveler said:


> Bitflogger: What a blast from the past that photo is! Those exact same Cannondale front panniers still survive on my old Motobecane Grand Touring, as does the Cannondale handlebar bag and the Kirtland Tour Pak rear panniers; down in the basement as I write this. Looking at that Cannondale, decked out like that, we're looking at a top tier state of the art touring bike, circa mid to late 70's, a rig set up for long days in the saddle, going anywhere! That photo reminds me of how much has been lost, as well. Cannondale is no longer made in Pennsylvania, USA as yours and mine gear (and your bike there) once were.
> 
> The only thing I've seen with Ortlieb is that they change color combinations after a year or two; then they discontinue that color...


Yes, lots of memories. I finally threw away ancient stuff and recall Kirtland too. That included a box of all sorts of cobbled things from before we had so many great choices.

I think 2 years ago I refreshed and got newer Ortlieb that is still variation of what they've had for a long time. The less expensive stuff I've purchased is holding up too. Nothing against the boutique and make your own, but the modern choices help us at both doing and affording the sports stuff for a family of 5.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Bitflogger: What is especially nice, along with a great selection of any kind of bag configuration we can dream of, on the open market it this: the internet has brought this gear right in front of our computer screen.

Back in the 70's up to fairly recent days with the advent of Ebay and dot com bike shops, we shopped at the local lbs and were at the mercy of whatever kind of stock was on hand....

My rear Kirtland Tourpack panniers were purchased in Somerville, NJ, some 60 some odd miles from homebase. There was nothing like them available closer to home and at that, I believe I found the Kirtlands via an ad in Bicycling Magazine. 

The front Cannondale panniers, identical to the ones you show in that photo, were bought when I was mid-tour, on a run from Homebase, up to Toronto, Canada and back. Picked them up in some bike shop in Canandaigua, New York; Finger Lakes country, as I was headed back home. A little late in the game to better distribute my gear, but better late then never! 

Bike technology has peaked since then as well.... I made that near 700 mile total tour on a kids store purchased Huffy 10 speed, LOL. Guess it's more about heart and determination (and what we don't know!), that sees us through!


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