# Jones H Bar for mountain biking?



## thighsman (Jan 3, 2016)

Hey all, I bought a Krampus 2 years ago for bikepacking and for riding on our local mountain bike trails. Turns out I do a lot more gravel/bikepacking on it than I do mountain biking, so now I'm thinking about getting the Jones loop bars for greater comfort on longer rides, but worried that those won't translate to an enjoyable mountain bike ride. Thoughts?


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

thighsman said:


> Hey all, I bought a Krampus 2 years ago for bikepacking and for riding on our local mountain bike trails. Turns out I do a lot more gravel/bikepacking on it than I do mountain biking, so now I'm thinking about getting the Jones loop bars for greater comfort on longer rides, but worried that those won't translate to an enjoyable mountain bike ride. Thoughts?


Just go do it.
I have a Jones Plus and love my Titanium Loop H-Bars.
They're great for some, but not for all.
Only one way to know, just buy and ride them.
They sale well second hand so if you don't like? Just put them up for sale.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

I want to know about the Jones bar, too. I have a Trek 1120 with a Trek Crivitz handlebar (whatever that is), and it seems the 20* or 25* sweep is not enough. I'm inexperienced at mtb and bikepacking, so I might be wrong, but wonder if the Jones bar would be more comfortable. Buy one and try it? Dude, those things are expensive.


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## velcipede (Feb 22, 2011)

I’ve got Jones bars on my Cannondale 29er hard tail and I love them. They’re definitely more comfortable, and I think they also help on the trail, at least for XC and trail type riding. Probably not so good for jumping gaps, but my wheels usually stay on the ground.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

Hey Gramps,

They have a less expensive alloy version for $80 that we just picked up for my wife's bike. 100 grams heavier than their butted bar.
Even their butted alloy version at $120 ain't that bad. 
With the amount of money you have been dumping into bikes lately that should be nothing!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

thighsman said:


> Hey all, I bought a Krampus 2 years ago for bikepacking and for riding on our local mountain bike trails. Turns out I do a lot more gravel/bikepacking on it than I do mountain biking, so now I'm thinking about getting the Jones loop bars for greater comfort on longer rides, but worried that those won't translate to an enjoyable mountain bike ride. Thoughts?


The issue isn't whether they work for mountain biking, it's whether they fit your body ergonomically. I like the way they feel but no matter how I adjust the height, tilt, and grip thickness/padding, I get numbness in my hands very quickly with Jones bars.

Ultimately I determined that the 45* sweep was just too much for me. I can go for days with no issues on a 22* bar, but as I increase sweep the numbness creeps in.

Try before you buy, if possible.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

richwolf said:


> Hey Gramps,
> 
> They have a less expensive alloy version for $80 that we just picked up for my wife's bike. 100 grams heavier than their butted bar.
> Even their butted alloy version at $120 ain't that bad.
> With the amount of money you have been dumping into bikes lately that should be nothing!


Considering that I now have three mountain bikes that I didn't have six months ago, there is some truth in what you're saying. But those bikes are three distinct tools that I suddenly realized that I needed. The handlebar modification, though... I feel like that's just bike jewelry. Unless it keeps my hands from going numb, that is. I can't understand why the straight bars on the Tallboy seem fine, while the 20+* sweep on the 1120 seems like not enough of an angle.

With respect to the handlebar material, is that just personal preference? I read differing opinions here and there. I tend to like carbon toys and accessories... And for the record, I probably won't be buying any more bikes, ever, because you know, I'm old. My apologies to the OP for diverting the thread. Thanks to all for the suggestions. And why the heck did no one ever tell me how much fun you can have on a mountain bike? Oh, yeah. I didn't know anyone who rode one.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

Set ups on my 3 bikes and my wife's bike.

Just put Jones on her bike to try out. My impression of them is the same as when I first tried them years ago.

My Ti 29er roadie has misfit fu2bars.

My Ti 29er mtb has On one Mary bars

My Stache 29 plus has ancient zoom bars. Probably from the mid 90's. I have three pair of them. Look like mini jones bars.
These bars work really well for me. Tens of thousands of miles. Perfect width for me. 
I can't stand bars with less sweep or real wide bars. The standard bars on my stache got thrown in the parts heap immediately.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^+1 richwolf. Numbness is my biggest problem and the loop bar with the regular ergons works pretty well for me. I find the rotation of the bar to be critical, as well as the rotation of the grips themselves. Took some time to sort that out, I rode with both set just loose enough to change with some force for quite awhile.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

thighsman said:


> Hey all, I bought a Krampus 2 years ago for bikepacking and for riding on our local mountain bike trails. Turns out I do a lot more gravel/bikepacking on it than I do mountain biking, so now I'm thinking about getting the Jones loop bars for greater comfort on longer rides, but worried that those won't translate to an enjoyable mountain bike ride. Thoughts?


Some people find the Jones bar limiting for more 'technical' biking, then again, some don't. I fall in the former camp, and prefer a bar with a lot less sweep and more width when I'm truly riding techy stuff.

However, for bikepacking, gravel riding and cruising along on mellower trails, I think they are certainly worth trying if you are curious. I have run them on a variety of bikes for those applications and love them. The variety of hand positions and mounting options are great, imo.

However, as with so many outfitting details, I think these are all just opinions and others' experiences, and only _you _can decide if they will work for your needs.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

My experience similar to Smithhammer. WAY too much sweep for technical mountain-biking, in my opinion.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

IME Jones bars will work for most MTB riding. The only place they require a bit of technique, that a more traditional bar may not, is super tight trails. The farther you turn them the more they intrude into the cockpit space and you may wind up banging your knees if trying to pedal around numerous closely spaced obstacles.

Jones bars also have a great resale value. I sold mine for 90% of what I paid new after using them for a solid 6 months.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

thighsman said:


> Hey all, I bought a Krampus 2 years ago for bikepacking and for riding on our local mountain bike trails. Turns out I do a lot more gravel/bikepacking on it than I do mountain biking, so now I'm thinking about getting the Jones loop bars for greater comfort on longer rides, but worried that those won't translate to an enjoyable mountain bike ride. Thoughts?


I really like the Jones bars for bikepacking on non-techy terrain. When things get steep and rough I would rather have a standard riser bar. Since I don't have bikepacking rig for just gravel grinding I use a riser MTB bar.

If I was going to ride the GDR I would use Jones bars.


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## thighsman (Jan 3, 2016)

Really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. Guess I'll give the Jones bars a shot and see for myself. Cheers all.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

I will add my thanks also. My bikepacking bike needs them. The positive testimonials have convinced me.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

DeadGrandpa said:


> I will add my thanks also. My bikepacking bike needs them. The positive testimonials have convinced me.


Hi Gramps,

In your prior post you talked about bars just being jewelry. In my opinion bike position, bars and saddles are super important particularly for bikepacking where you spend a lot of time on the bike and you are doing it day after day after day.

My wife likes her newly acquired Jones bars because they put her more upright. I concur that the Jones bars are not for more aggressive or technical riding although I am sure there are riders out there that might disagree with that statement. After trying them out on her bike I wouldn't put them on my bike but everyone is different. I like a swept back bar that isn't too wide and have found my sweet spot.

Jones bars really look cool and they offer you a lot of options for mounting bikepacking gear. As far as offering more hand positions that may be true but I find that 90 plus percent of the time you are going to be spending your time on the grips. If you really want another position that you will use quite a bit think about aero bars.

I have tried too many types of bars over the years including some funky ones that promise a million hand positions but none of them ever worked out as advertised. For example butterfly bars. Here is a link to Velo crazy bars that I bought and hated! https://velo-orange.com/collections/handlebars/products/crazy-bars


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

richwolf, thanks for the very informative post. To be a bit more clear about my "handlebars as bike jewelry" comment, I was thinking about the high priced Jones bars, $315 for carbon, more for Ti. I know I could get less expensive versions, but corners are cut on those models. 

With respect to Trekking or Butterfly bars, I have those on my two road bikes. I am not looking for more hand positions from the Jones bar, just one comfortable position, and I keep my hands there almost all the time. 

What I was looking for was the greater sweep angle of the Jones bar. The stock bar on my bike has a 20+ degree sweep, but it seems like not enough of an angle. Or it could be the aluminum material it's made from. I'm recovering from a non bike injury and it's been a couple months since I rode my bike, so I will have to reevaluate when I get out there again. I remember thinking I should try different grips, or double wrapping what I have.

I'm grateful for all opinions, on this and other threads.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

For me, the Jones bar is sort of similar to riding on the hoods, in that my wrists are more vertical, and it's rotated so the pressure is on my inner grip. I rotate the ergons so the pressure is light and even across my outer palm. Don't use the cruiser bar ergons, they reduce your effective sweep.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

DeadGrandpa said:


> richwolf, thanks for the very informative post. To be a bit more clear about my "handlebars as bike jewelry" comment, I was thinking about the high priced Jones bars, $315 for carbon, more for Ti. I know I could get less expensive versions, but corners are cut on those models.
> 
> With respect to Trekking or Butterfly bars, I have those on my two road bikes. I am not looking for more hand positions from the Jones bar, just one comfortable position, and I keep my hands there almost all the time.
> 
> ...


I doubt corners are cut or that you could really feel the difference between the comfort of the bars unless there is a ton of flex in them. We got the straight gauge aluminum bars for my wife's bike and they seem very well made. I am not a huge carbon fan and titanium bars are just crazy expensive to make and buy. If you are concerned call up Jeff Jones and ask him for his take on the bars.
If you want more comfort out of a bikepacking rig I would go front suspension and something like a thudbuster and brooks saddle.


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## epicxt (Dec 24, 2007)

richwolf said:


> I doubt corners are cut or that you could really feel the difference between the comfort of the bars unless there is a ton of flex in them. We got the straight gauge aluminum bars for my wife's bike and they seem very well made. I am not a huge carbon fan and titanium bars are just crazy expensive to make and buy.


+1 on this. I've been running the aluminum Jones bars for a few years on my xc bike and they've performed flawlessly for both bikepacking and trail riding, both short and long distance. Used them for the High Cascades race last year in Bend, OR and couldn't be happier. I also usually keep my hands positioned on the Ergon grips unless I'm on an extended paved or smooth gravel section and want to get a bit more aero.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

richwolf said:


> I doubt corners are cut or that you could really feel the difference between the comfort of the bars unless there is a ton of flex in them. We got the straight gauge aluminum bars for my wife's bike and they seem very well made. ...
> If you want more comfort out of a bikepacking rig I would go front suspension and something like a thudbuster and brooks saddle.


I really don't have enough miles on my 1120 to assess the hand numbness problem. I'm only beginning to dial in the correct tire pressure, which I've found does an amazing job at smoothing out root and rock rollover. I hear you on the Thudbuster; I have them on both road bikes. But since a dropper post came on it, I'll stick with that for a while, though I haven't learned to use it yet. As for the front suspension, I'm gonna stick with the rigid carbon fork that came on the 1120, because I need the fork bottle cage mounts. I also think my numbness comes from the grips or the sweep angle. Or maybe it's from the vibrations telegraphed up through the fork and handlebars, and carbon handlebars will help with that.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

DeadGrandpa said:


> With respect to Trekking or Butterfly bars, I have those on my two road bikes. I am not looking for more hand positions from the Jones bar, just one comfortable position, and I keep my hands there almost all the time.


I get what you're saying, but with respect to hand numbness, sometimes having a few different hand position options that you can move around to can go a long way toward eliminating numbness, esp. on longer rides. It's worth trying, anyway.

I would also highly recommend the ESI extra chunky grips that Jones sells (they're cut longer than the regular ESI grips to cover more of the Jones). Great for some additional chatter absorption.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

A lot of what causes numbness is the higher frequency buzz that suspension doesn't eliminate. Soft tires (no stiction) are more effective, as well as a more relaxed grip, and just changing the pressure points frequently. The Ergons spread the contact over a larger area than anything else I have found, including extra chunkies. I have some arthritis going on too, but I get along pretty well, even without gloves much of the time.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

That sounds like great advice, Mr Smithhammer. And also your thoughts, Mr or Ms bsieb. That higher frequency buzz you speak of seems like an argument in favor of carbon handlebars.


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

I was running the Surly Open Bar on several bikes. Long tours and the fat bike. Even the townie. 
53 degree sweep. 
Try to go quick on the single track? Nope. Too much sweep. My hands would always want to push forward away from the outside of the bar. But comfy? Outstandingly. 
Upright and comfy. Very little numb hands.

Then Surly came out w/ the Moloko bar (34d sweep). 
https://surlybikes.com/parts/handlebars/moloko_bar
Looks to me like a bit of a knock off of the Jones.
So I'm trying the Moloko and I want to like it. There's even a slick little pack to keep food and such in. 
But it might hit the sale pile. Wish I could say why but it's just not what I hoped. Not as comfortable. And like MC wrote- my hands go numb quick. I'm trying to work w/ tip and height but I might go back to that Open Bar. It just worked.

The Jones are 45 degrees? Maybe they'd be the best option between the two I listed above. 
Regardless of all that- all of these make a "straight" bar feel like an archaic broomstick for the first few miles of a ride.

-JCBs


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## MR. ED (Aug 19, 2006)

I just put some 710 H Bars(with the rise) on my fat bike to help with neck issues. I was wanting a more upright position. Unfortunately my hands went numb pretty quickly. I had a lot of pressure on the outside lower part of the hands which must've been the cause of the numbness.Everything else seemed good. I left my multi tool in my garage so I wasn't able to adjust anything out on the trail. 
They're about 3 inches narrower than my previous bars but, they have a comfortable feel to them. I'm going to keep them on for a few more rides and get them dialed in. I didn't tackle anything technical so I can't comment on that aspect. Mellow cruising they seemed good. If they work out, great. If not I'll throw them up for sale. Good luck.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^Rotate them down until you get the pressure off your outside lower hands. Pointing them at your rear hub is a good place to start.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Yup - I think Jeff recommends somewhere around a 10º tilt. Definitely don't want to mount them flat or it will cause excessive pressure.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I'll chime in here as well. I've been experimenting with swept bars for many years now, and have formed my own opinions, which are pretty consistent with some other posts above. My first swept bars were Groovy Luv handles, 22.5 deg. angle I think. Coming from a normal flat bar, they felt amazing! The sweep really made a big difference in comfort, fo the better! I used them with some Ergon grips, to ones with smaller wings, not the big fat rounded ones, and I liked that setup. I then got an Origin8 Space UL carbon bar for a new build, which I think is 40 deg sweep. LOVE it! It's light, the sweep feels perfect, and it's got a bit of rise. I went with ESI Extra Chunky grips, as I found the Ergon don't work well for me with highly swept bars. Unfortunately, this bar is no longer made, I tried to find another one last year with no luck. I ended up getting one of the aluminum Origin8 Spar II bars, which are similar, but the spec's are different and it's not quiet as comfortable for me. I also picked up a Jones H-bar (also with ESI Extra Chunky) to put on a bikepacking 29+ build and think it's great as well. That bike is set up more for longer and less techy rides, and it excels at that kind of riding. I agree it's not ideal for techy rides, but still doable. So for what you are doing, I think the Jones would be well worth a try. Just get the cheaper aluminum one to start, or even a used one. They also have the bend Hbar without the forward section if you don't want the extra hand positions and mounting space.

And yes, getting the best out of a Jones bar takes some experimenting, especially with rotation angle. Like others mention, the ends should be pointed somewhat down, I think mine are somewhere between the rear hub and top of the tire.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

The other thing I got to say is that the alt bars and grips can be very painful if they not adjusted properly. Somewhat of a learning curve involved for sure. Stop and adjust if it happens, it's a good learning op.


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## wahday (Mar 23, 2012)

I have Jones bars on two bikes. For riding with a rigid fork, they are fantastic. Contrary to what some others have said, I find them to be great for technical riding, both climbing and descending. For commuting and bikepacking, they can't be beat - lots of hand positions to keep you busy and comfortable. I have straight bars on my full suspension and honestly feel I have just as much control on the gnarly stuff with the Jones. Proper setup is important. Bar ends should slope down about 6-8 degrees (use your phone - it has a level). I swear by them!


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

Thanks, wahday! You have some nice rides, and I think I'm convinced that the Jones bar is the way to go.


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## Jseis (Dec 28, 2009)

I just swapped out Woodchippers. I'm enjoying the H Bar so far.


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

So far I have a SQlab 311, Fouriers Trailhead and Jones Loop bars. Each excels in their own way. For cutting it up the SQlab 311 bars stand out and provide 16* of back sweep with 740mm width. The Fouriers Trailhead is my favorite “Do-It-All” handlebar when combined with a pair of Ergon GP5 bar ends (with the stops ground off) slide on before the controls and grips as inner horns. I’ve run the GP5 bar ends on the “inside” of both the 311’s and Trailheads, but the Trailhead’s 28* sweep with a bend in the grip area and ESI Extra Chunky grips , gives wonderful palm support and solved my hand numbness issues without giving up much technical and ripping it up control . The Jones Loop H-Bar’s are great for cement and dirt roads, and work okay for cutting it up less aggressively off-road. I find I like my hands all the way up against controls when getting aggressive with the Jones. That gives me good brake control and stretches me out a bit. Oddly enough with my hands at a 45* angle in the narrower position, it works better than that same narrower width with a flat bar for me. A wider flat (0-9*) bar works better than a Jones at the 720-740mm position, but hand numbness sets in. The SQlab 311 worked well for an aggressive bar for me and with the inner horns (SQlab makes some of their own short inner horns) it allowed me to changes positions on the straights and pulls to greatly reduce hand issues. The Jones Loop at 45* seem to fall into the touring groove best; that’s what they are designed for.

If light weight carbon is what you are after (possibly for a Trek 1120 or carbon Stache trail rig that see’s lots of rack-off ripping single track in-between your off-road bike camping trips), take a look at the Answer Pro Taper 20/20 bars. They have 20* sweep and are very light weight. This is a handlebar I want to try next, but haven’t come across anyone using it or anyone stocking it to put my hands on.

Take a look at these four. I’m sure there are more out there too (Surly now makes a steel Moloko):

SQlab 311 740mm - Sweep 16* - Weight 302g
Answer Pro Taper 20/20 Carbon 720mm - Sweep 20* - Weight 187g
Fouriers Trailhead 720mm - Sweep 28* - Weight 380g
Jones Loop –Bar 710mm - Sweep 45* - Weight (aluminum 2” riser model)

Good luck in your adventures!


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

I’ve been riding high sweep bars for about 12 years now. Started with a Black Sheep mountain mustache, went to a jones bar and several custom bars from Black Sheep.

I’ve also taken a lot of ribbing from friends for my constant changing!

I love about 45 degrees of sweep for an everyday bar. Ride lots of techy, rocky stuff when home in Phx and lots of high country, loamy, pine needle covered stuff when at the cabin.

Also, I’ve found for me that wider is better on the SS, for leveraging steep, loose climbs.


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

Whiptastic said:


> So far I have a SQlab 311, Fouriers Trailhead and Jones Loop bars.


Can you post pictures of how you have the bars set up? I'm particularly interested in the Trailheads.

Thanks Tim


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

Well I am going to walk back my comments on the Jones bars!
Ordered a pair for my second Stache which is set up exclusively for bikepacking. For this purpose they are awesome. On tight turns I will normally put my knee out to the side I am turning but I really can't do that with the Jones bars. I just learned how to keep the knees in towards the top tube and no problems. Bike fits and feels like it wants to go out and put in hundreds of miles. So I am now a convert.
My other Stache is set up for Trail riding hence a different bar and not all the accoutrements.


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## OhNooo (Jan 20, 2007)

richwolf said:


> On tight turns I will normally put my knee out to the side I am turning but I really can't do that with the Jones bars.


I've never run Jones bars, but I did use Mary bars for a while. I found that the extreme sweep caused me to dig my elbows into my ribs during sharp switchbacks. The first time it was super scary... WHY AM I NOT TURNING??? I'm tall so I guess my ribs are the target of my elbows instead of knees like you mention.

I'm running Groovy Luv handles on my bikes now. 25 degrees of sweep is the sweet spot for me. Enough sweep for comfort, and not too much for control.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

OhNooo said:


> I've never run Jones bars, but I did use Mary bars for a while. I found that the extreme sweep caused me to dig my elbows into my ribs during sharp switchbacks. The first time it was super scary... WHY AM I NOT TURNING??? I'm tall so I guess my ribs are the target of my elbows instead of knees like you mention.
> 
> I'm running Groovy Luv handles on my bikes now. 25 degrees of sweep is the sweet spot for me. Enough sweep for comfort, and not too much for control.


I was hitting my knees with the bars not my elbows.
I also have Mary Bars and never had a problem turning with those. I guess our height difference might be the key.
As much as we talk about bike geometry, body geometry is probably just as big of factor.


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

Wombat said:


> Can you post pictures of how you have the bars set up? I'm particularly interested in the Trailheads.
> 
> Thanks Tim


I have the Trailheads with inner GP5's on my B-Side now. Try to get in at least to ~50 milers each week without issues. Hopefully this IMGUR picture post will work. Last time I used them it showed up in my post window, but not in the thread.

https://i.imgur.com/gD6Nm9l.jpg














These are a nice compromise at 28*, plus the palm bar bend helps a lot for me.


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

Thanks Whiptastic, that a different setup, and your seat is curious, although not for me.

Tim


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

Don't discount the long inner bar ends until you've tried them. They are great for climbing long grades and getting a bit of a tuck battling headwinds. Very cheap personal experiment and they do pay off for many riders like myself.

Funny you should mention the seat. That's a ISM Urbaine. They are firm and kind of flat, with the wonderful anti-pressure cutout ISM is known for that eliminated nether region numbness for me. I've tried more saddles than bars to solve that uncomfortable cold numbness issue. I'd like to try the leather cutout models from Brooks and Selle that so many touring riders like, but haven't made that investment in saddle and time in it to break those hard leather beasts in to a form fitting saddle.

Bars and saddles are a very personal issue. There really isn't any way to know what will work for you without trying them on long rides and the type of terrain you ride most.


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

richwolf said:


> Well I am going to walk back my comments on the Jones bars!
> Ordered a pair for my second Stache which is set up exclusively for bikepacking. For this purpose they are awesome. On tight turns I will normally put my knee out to the side I am turning but I really can't do that with the Jones bars. I just learned how to keep the knees in towards the top tube and no problems. Bike fits and feels like it wants to go out and put in hundreds of miles. So I am now a convert.
> My other Stache is set up for Trail riding hence a different bar and not all the accoutrements.
> 
> View attachment 1195831


Your Racked-Thudbuster-Jones Stache is just what I was looking to put together back in 2016, but by the time I made the decision all the carbon forked XL 5's were gone and never returned. Now they have the 1120, but at close to $1K more than I could have got the first Stache 5... (ouch!) I'm debating on a Stache 7 with a 1120 fork side purchase now to have setup options.

What rack is that? Can you post a close up picture of it and how it is attached? Also, what leather saddles are you running? Thx.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

Whiptastic said:


> Your Racked-Thudbuster-Jones Stache is just what I was looking to put together back in 2016, but by the time I made the decision all the carbon forked XL 5's were gone and never returned. Now they have the 1120, but at close to $1K more than I could have got the first Stache 5... (ouch!) I'm debating on a Stache 7 with a 1120 fork side purchase now to have setup options.
> 
> What rack is that? Can you post a close up picture of it and how it is attached? Also, what leather saddles are you running? Thx.


The rack is the one from the Trek 1120 that you can buy separately. Price was around $120 but did not come with the holsters for the dry bags which would have run me around an additional $160.

I attached it with 2 P clamps and 4 hose clamps. Kind of ******* but hey it works!

I don't see where buying a Trek Stache 7 and modifying it would pencil out over just buying the Trek 1120.
Stache 7 around $2100. Rear rack $120, holsters $160, front fork $399, front rack $120. Then you have to ******* the rear rack on.
Now if you wanted a front suspension fork for your bikepacking rig then it would start to make more sense.

You have to figure that the 1120 comes with $240 in racks and $160 in holsters plus mount points for the racks and a pretty cool fork with mounts for cages if rigid is the way you want to go.


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

You missed the Yari RL fork at $570 that’s cash back… And frankly I’m shocked at the prices of the front rack and straps, but if that’s what they cost it is what it is.

I hear you even if you only save a few hundred dollars for all your time and labor. What you really get for all your efforts by making Stache 7 into a full-hard bike-packing/ripper combo rig, is the 7’s geometry (chain stay and head angle), 28T front chain ring and Shimano over SRAM brakes. Saddle and bars will likely be changed anyway on each. Although I have a Jones Loop H-Bar and Fouriers Trailhead ready to go, I could see myself liking the Bontrager Crevitz already on the 1120.

Don’t get me wrong, IMHO Trek did a great job on the 1120. I’d love to own one despite the 28H spoke count (I’m a 6’2” 230lb. Clyde – Add 32lbs of bike and that only leaves about 35lbs for gear before I max out). It’s a tough call between the two. For a true 22/410 over/under dual purpose rig I lean toward the Stache 7 for the geometry alone (and maybe leave the fork on like you did). It’s that dual function and one less bike in the garage that got me thinking about these bikes begin with…

The dilemma is similar to that between the Surly ECR and the Krampus. Personally I’m seriously considering an ECR frame/fork set now, because it will take my 135/100 IGH Velocity Dually i39 Swiss Alpine III spoked 29+ Surly Extraterrestial shoed wheel set I already own. And I have a Soma B-Side hard tail and Niner Jet 9 FS for other uses. For about a $700 layout I get a third toy using all my existing components and if I make the jump to a Rohloff in the future, it will bolt right on without fuss. ;-)

With all that said, this is really a sweep back handlebar thread, so let’s add the Bontrager Crevitz to the list!

PS: I’d still like to know what leather saddle you are using and if the Brooks cutout models are rated for a 230lb. rider. I don’t believe the Selle’s are; up to 100kg/220lb only (?). That new Ergon ST Touring Core Ultra looks interesting. The mechanic at my LBS has one on his Big Dummy and it felt pretty good on a short pedal around the parking lot.

(ADDED: Barrowed it, tested it, hated it... Way too soft and movable side to side for me. Now wondering about the Ergon SM Sport? Also, ordered up a Surly Moloko bar to test next)


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

DeadGrandpa said:


> I want to know about the Jones bar, too. I have a Trek 1120 with a Trek Crivitz handlebar (whatever that is), and it seems the 20* or 25* sweep is not enough. I'm inexperienced at mtb and bikepacking, so I might be wrong, but wonder if the Jones bar would be more comfortable. Buy one and try it? Dude, those things are expensive.


Crivitz is a town in Wisconsin. I like their Piggly Wiggly I always try to make a stop there.


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## swissarmychainsaw (Aug 4, 2010)

I have aluminum Jones bars on my ... jones, but I originally put them on my 2004 Santa Cruz Blur trying like mad to make that bike comfortable. The Jones H bar might require a bit more cable length (as it did for the blur - I just rode it like that for a bit, before I just pulled the trigger on a Jones Plus)

I'm going to second what others have said:
* The H bar is super comfortable and worth the price
* YES you can do technical riding with them, do it all the time (no ace, but I keep pedaling!)
* They are wide, and it seems like you could hit your knee, but I never have while riding (Northern Cal) - your brain works good to prevent this kind of thing somehow
* They are DIFFERENT looking, and I have found that MOST people stick with the Herd and don't like different. Then again, lots of those people take my Jones for a ride and giggle with pleasure. "It's so comfortable!"

Ignore the position of my saddle...


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

I could ride everything I ride with those bars just not as fast or as aggressively. That is how things work. everything has a strength and weakness. I wouldn't want to ride the World Cup track at Fort William with drop bars or the Jones H but I could. I wouldn't want to bike pack with my riser DH bars but I could. I wouldn't want to race a road event with flat bars... it isn't that you can or can't but more that a strength of a product in one area is often a weakness in another area. 

I personally would not put Jones H bars on my primary trail bike. Though I love them for bike packing on the plus bike.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^Got it. 

I ride everything with my loop bar, love it! 

Black Sheep makes some awesome full sweep bars, maybe even better if you have no bar bag/roll.


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## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

To those who switched to loop bars from straight bars, is it recommended to change stem length or would that offset the comfort of the bars?

Obviously I don't know much about bike geometry, I just try stuff and hope for the best.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

formula4speed said:


> To those who switched to loop bars from straight bars, is it recommended to change stem length or would that offset the comfort of the bars?
> 
> Obviously I don't know much about bike geometry, I just try stuff and hope for the best.


Cheapest, easiest way to go is to put the bars on, play around with them before you start swapping out stems.


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## Spec44 (Aug 17, 2013)

richwolf said:


> Cheapest, easiest way to go is to put the bars on, play around with them before you start swapping out stems.


This...try it with your current stem first. IIRC Jeff Jones on his site said you might need to go up to 20mm longer on the stem, but I didn't need to. Remember, one major point of these bars is that you'll have 7+" of usable grip length so your hands will settle wherever they are comfortable while you're getting used to it, THEN evaluate where that puts you relative to shifters, brake levers, etc.


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## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks guys, that's the way I was leaning, try the cheap way first and change if needed.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

For those of you riding mountain do you have the 660 or 710? I hear the 660 is better for the single track? Is there that much of a difference(durability/quality) between the SG and the butted model? Is it worth the extra to save 100 gram? I like riding on my hoods, but not the best idea on technical downhills & my back isn't to happy when using the drops.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Another interesting option to consider. Supposed to be back in stock in November.

*KOGA Denham Bars*
Story about the design:
https://www.cyclingabout.com/koga-denham-bars/

Store listing: 
https://cyclesense.co.uk/m61b0s372p23757/KOGA-Satori-Denham-Handlebar


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

The Denham bars look similar to the Orange Crazy Bars, which for me in the states cost less.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

I've personally used Jones bars a few times under several conditions here in Hawaii. We have rocky, rooted, steep going up and down single track. I've found that with that much sweep it's been hard to keep from sliding forward on the bars. It's hard shocking on my hands. So for single track, I have found they don't work so good. It'd be great as a long distance gravel/bike packing set up where the terrain's not too steep going down and rough with the roots and rocks.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Spoke to a Jones rep today over the phone and told me the 660 shorter one is better for singletrack. But, this review has me swaying towards the Jones bar as I for a moment thought maybe try a different drop bar handlebar like woodchipper or condor bar. https://bikepacking.com/bikes/va-salsa-deadwood/


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Funoutside said:


> The Denham bars look similar to the Orange Crazy Bars, which for me in the states cost less.


They're certainly very similar. However, the Velo Crazy Bars share the same 45 degree sweep of the Jones bars that some find too dramatic for use on singletrack. They're also slightly heavier than the Denham bars and have much longer vertical extensions.

The Denham bars were created specifically to address the sweep angle issues some people have with the Jones or Crazy bars - 34 degrees versus 45 degrees, respectively.

Comparison from whatbars.com:


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Good to know. I will have to see if I can find a lbs have the Denham, VO, Moloko, and Jones bars to compare in person. Do you know how it may effect handling? Cause I read some said the Jones hasn't changed the handling, while Moloko has made it a bit less responsive.


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## justin70 (Sep 17, 2007)

I've got moloko's on a hardtail 29er. I used to have a 760 mm wide riser bar setup for more all mountain type riding, so the moloko was a notable change. The front end is now twitchier and there is definitely tradeoff where the moloko bar does not handle technical riding (gnarly rocks, roots, drops) like the wide bar. But for XC and any sort of gravel riding they work great. And the sweep is much more comfortable on my wrists/hands for long rides of 2+ hours. The moloko bar's bull horns are also a nice change up for hand position and can get into a sort of aero position.


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## bikewright (Dec 7, 2007)

I have a Surly KM that I been riding a little over a year. I built it with Jones H-Bar from the start. At this point, I would never go back to a normal bar. Below is my post from my blog after the first 30 days that I had my bike and I still would say the same thing today. 

After I have been riding with the H-Bar for this time. I think this set-up works best if the bike and bar fit is much like a Jones Bike. You can do this with your Surly. 


"First up the Jones H-bar. I get stopped on the trail more about riding with the H-bar. The best answer that I can give anyone is that I will never ride with a straight bar ever again. Riding with your hands close to the back of the bar or closest to you gives you that quick handing that you would get from riding a 26" wheeled bike. Move your hand a little closer to the front of the bar slows things down a bit and is a good place to be for flowing single track. Bring your hands up right behind the shifter and brake mount gives you fantastic power transfer standing out of the saddle on a climb.

Instead of gripping the bar with a death grip like you do a straight bar you grip the H-bar like you hold a shovel. This puts your wrist at a more comfortable angle and I believe the hand has more contact surface with the bar. So I guess that puts Jeff Jones as a genius in my book."


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

All of my bikepacking bikes (tandem mountain included) have Jones H bars. I wouldn't consider anything else.

- Relaxed angle makes for a more ergonomic wrist position.
- My DIY frame bags loop around both bars so they stay rock solid.
- My main BP rig has the carbon version which absorbs a lot of chatter.

FWIW, I also have a Lauf fork.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

This is my current loop bar set up, I use an Alfine8 IGH.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

I was at REI the other day and to my surprise, they had a Co-Op 4.2 model plus bike(3 front and 2.8 rear) with the larger 710 Jones SG(?)s bar installed. They told me it was a customer return cause the size of the bike was wrong. I really like the bar, but I also found the 710 might be a bit larger for mountain biking, at least for my taste. I feel like the 660 might be the better handler. Still, need to try the Surly Moloko bar and that new Ride Farr bar to see how it compares.


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

My son has a Moloko and likes it. I have a carbon Jones and IMHO, for bikepacking, I tend to be a weight weenie when it comes to the bike.


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## Arch Stanton (Oct 17, 2019)

*2018 Trek Stache 5*



bsieb said:


> This is my current loop bar set up, I use an Alfine8 IGH.


Is that the Jones Hbar 2.5 on your bike? Also, which Ergon grips are those? I have a 2018 Trek Stache 5 and was thinking about putting the Bar 2.5 to allow a more upright riding position, but was wondering how it would affect the handling going up and down hill. I'm mainly riding on dirt roads and some pavement, but I do ride on some old mining roads that can be pretty rough.

By the way, I posted on this forum several years ago, but it's been so long that my account is no longer valid. I'm in my 50's now and last summer I bought a Trek Stache to lose some weight and get back in shape; however, it's taking longer than expected. LOL. Cheers!


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## francesty (Jan 18, 2019)

Thinking of converting to Jones H bar on my drop-bar touring bike w/ bar end shifters (microshift). Do you know if the bar end shifters can be mounted on the Jones Bar or do I have to buy a whole new set of shifters?


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## bikewright (Dec 7, 2007)

I don't think they will fit end the end of the bar. The link below will show you how to do it.

Handlebar Conversion to the Jones Loop-H Bar|Handlebars for Adventure Bike Touring

https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/drivetrain/shifting/microshift-thumbies/


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## francesty (Jan 18, 2019)

Thanks for the link; yeah, so far the only option I've seen is the Paul thumbies. But I was hoping to avoid that because they are so expensive; the hope was to keep the bar-end shifters and mount them somehow on the Jones bar, but even Problem Solvers don't seem to have a conversion mount that will work. Would probably be cheaper for me just to go with new shifters than to use Paul thumbies.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Arch Stanton said:


> Is that the Jones Hbar 2.5 on your bike? Also, which Ergon grips are those? I have a 2018 Trek Stache 5 and was thinking about putting the Bar 2.5 to allow a more upright riding position, but was wondering how it would affect the handling going up and down hill. I'm mainly riding on dirt roads and some pavement, but I do ride on some old mining roads that can be pretty rough.
> 
> By the way, I posted on this forum several years ago, but it's been so long that my account is no longer valid. I'm in my 50's now and last summer I bought a Trek Stache to lose some weight and get back in shape; however, it's taking longer than expected. LOL. Cheers![/QUOTE
> 
> Not the 2.5 model, handling is great in the rough, and your wrists are at a better angle for absorbing shock. I'm using the GS-1 grips, which are designed for endurance riding and have great cush.


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

I have the Crazy Bars. I don't do technical stuff, just regular commuting, with the occasional pavement/gravel/rail-trail adventure with some briefer forays into some rougher stuff. I did actually get to play around on some single track for a while for a change, and I can see where maybe a less sweep would help. I am okay with the 45 degree sweep when touring on my Troll, but playing around on some relatively mild trails has made me rethink my plans to build a hardtail up with the same angle of bars. Not a fan of bars that are too close to flat, but there's a lot of middle ground between 0 and 45 that I have not explored. Replaced the flat bars on my folding bike with 55 degree Soma Sparrows and the results surprised me: too much sweep. Tolerable for goofing around, and I even did some credit card touring on them, but not ideal. I used to have 74 degree Albatross bars on my touring bike, so it was strange to think the Sparrows had too much sweep. I guess the Crazy Bars have ruined me.

But years later, I'm still not sold on the built in extensions. I can see where the slight curve on the extensions on the Denham Bar might be an improvement, comfort-wise. And maybe the sweep provides a better compromise between comfort and maneuverability. Not sure on that because less than 45 degrees is still untried for me. But on the feasibility of the extensions, for commuting/round town, I just don't have much use for them. Not enough time in the saddle to need the alternate positions. Maybe for a minute or two on a long, straightaway, but we're talking mountain biking and bikepacking on this thread, and long straightaways don't happen that often. Then when I'm actually touring, those extensions turn into storage. It's just too easy and too tempting to hang stuff on them. When I actually go to use them as a handhold, too bad.

Also, because my folding bike was set up with a front mount for KlickFix accessories, I put a corresponding handlebar mount on the Troll, so I could easily swap my front bag and my Kanga Rack between bikes. The Kanga Rack in particular is very handy for otherwise awkwardly shaped items, but on my Troll, everything has to squeeze between or under those extensions on the Crazy Bars.

I'm considering replacing them with something with a similar sweep, but no extensions, or maybe even less sweep, like the Surly Terminal Bar. Maybe move the Crazy Bars back when touring, but maybe not. My biggest issue is what's to become of my cowbell? That, IMHO, is where Crazy Bars excel: when you need a mount for your cowbell.


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## Josh_W (Aug 30, 2010)

Origin 8 carbon Spacebar on my current F-series:












A little wide for my taste, and I still end up needing aerobars to keep the CTS at bay on long rides.


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

Josh_W said:


> A little wide for my taste, and I still end up needing aerobars to keep the CTS at bay on long rides.


This brings up an issue that I forgot to mention with the Crazy Bars, that I imagine also applies to the Jones Loop Bars: The design of the bars limits how short you can cut them. I decided my Crazy Bars were too wide, so I pushed my shifter and brake levers and grips as far up the bar as they could go. I cut off what was left, but it was about a half inch on either side, maybe. Any more and I wouldn't have had room for my grips and controls. Some of these other bars look like they could be cut a lot shorter if that's your preference, but the built in extensions/loops on the Crazy/Jones bars prevents them from getting shortened much.


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## Yeah right (Jun 1, 2019)

Rob_E said:


> This brings up an issue that I forgot to mention with the Crazy Bars, that I imagine also applies to the Jones Loop Bars: The design of the bars limits how short you can cut them.


I guess with the Jones you might be able to clamp the brakes on the other side of the cross bar.

I tried the Surly Moloko. It was pretty heavy, not that it mattered that much. I also just felt uncomfortable not having my brakes covered when in the alternate positions. Though for some reason, I'm fine with my hands on the tops of drop bars. Probably because I don't have as much weight on my hands.

But yeah, they also seemed too wide, but it only really was noticeable when wheeling my bike in and out the door at work.

Really, if I didn't ride my bike to work so much, I'd probably still have the bars.


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## Arch Stanton (Oct 17, 2019)

I appreciate you sharing your experience with the Jones Bar. Unfortunately, there isn't a local bike shop that carries these bars. I waiting for REI to assemble a bike, so I can at least take a spin on a bike with the Jones bars. I've come across the Salsa Bend Deluxe and the Ritchey Kyote bars on the web. Maybe a Salsa dealer near where I live might have Bend bars in stock. In the meantime, I might give those GS-1 grips a try. Have a good one!


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

I'd also look at the Surly Moloko bars too.


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## Jseis (Dec 28, 2009)

I use bar ends. A bit wide but I can literally steer with my pinkies.


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