# I'm thinking about getting an ACD or Heeler for ridin' with



## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Been reading up here and in other places. Seems like they have plenty of MTB energy, can get along with other dogs, can be mellow at home (is this true?) and don't tend to wander off since they like to be with their person.

There are quite a few people around here with Border Collies and Aus. Shepards but they seem like a major handful. There's also people breeding those together.

Right now we have a couple of Pomeranians but they are 'the wife's' and are too small to go riding with me anyway.....

Any other ideas? My MIL wants to give me a Rottie since she breeds them and says they can run all day. They are the AKC Champion $3500 to $5000 type but they are a bit big for me.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

a lot of breeders don't know their @$$ from the back of their hands.

Rotties are working breeds, yes, and have stamina. but we're talking strength and the ability to use that strength frequently. not endurance like you'd find in a husky

However, running would not be one of their strong points. Just look at them. Do they look like animals that run a lot? No. They're big and muscular, and all that weight is hard to move. If you notice, animals born to run (not just dogs, but other species, too) are LEAN. Not to mention, rotties have smooshed faces (not as bad as some, but still, they do not have long muzzles). Smoosh-faced dogs are not known for respiratory prowess that's necessary for a runner. They are notorious for respiratory problems, in fact.

Anything with a lean build should have little difficulty keeping up. Other things that are more important would be coat type (thick coats would be bad in a hot climate, while a thin coat would be bad in a cool one), individual disposition, and training.

Keep in mind that herding dogs can all wind up with their own issues. ACD/heelers (same dog, btw) tend to nip - it's part of what they were bred to do. This is bad news if you've got small kids and the dog tries to herd them (or their friends/playmates) by nipping their heels. A dog could easily wind up being classified as a "dangerous" animal by an upset parent who calls the cops. I know several border collies, and I will never own one. They're fine working dogs, but IMO, not appropriate as pets. I know one that's so neurotic (because it has no job) that it stares at balls ALL DAY to the point that it will ignore food. I know another (and this one was a working dog with a job) that flipped out to the point that one day, it decided it needed to attack any and every stranger it saw (or thought it saw) and it had to be put down. German shepherds often get neurotic, too, so it's not just the herders. smart dogs can be difficult to keep stimulated all the time.


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## karma 33 (Dec 27, 2009)

cattle dogs are great, but they all seem to have very different personalities. they can be very stubborn. they usually have incredible amounts of energy and would have no problem hanging with you. some do have a tendency to herd and nip. there is definately no innate desire to please its owner like a lab, but they are very cool dogs in their own way. very smart and devious. I think mine was embezzling from me.


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## karma 33 (Dec 27, 2009)

i would definately not get a rottie for trail riding. too big and muscular for something that needs endurance. plus some of them can be aggressive.


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## LilJr (Oct 27, 2009)

I had a heeler when I was younger. Awesome dog who loved to run. Unfortunately, I didn't know about mountain biking back then so I can't comment on how they do on trails. Mine did try to heard my brother and I, but instead of nipping at our heels, it would use its muzzle to prod or push our heels/ankles. They do love to run and be active, and in my experience, are mellow at home as well. Plus they are beautiful. It's ultimately up to you to choose a buddy who would be right for your family and the weather where you ride the most.


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## jdfelt (Mar 29, 2009)

I can't address the Rottie idea but I do have a male full ACD and a female ACD and we think Border Collie mix. They are a handful but for different reasons. Both are absolutely great with kids and people. The mix has had some issues with fear aggression towards other dogs, she is getting better as we work with her and she gets a little older but still don't trust her off leash. The full ACD, which is what I would recommend, is a totally different personality. He is much more laid back at home until you pull out the leash or the bike. Then the ACD screeching starts and he is ready to go. Unfortunately what you will find with ACD's is that they are very protective, the male on his own gets along with other dogs with no problem however when the mix is with him he goes into protection mode and will become aggressive as well. I think a lot of the issues with the mix are not typical for ACD's or Border Collies so take that into consideration. 

As for biking with them. The mix wants to run at full speed for hours on end, the full ACD prefers a little slower pace but will still run forever. I know a lot of people with ACD's and bike and they do great. I take the male by himself off leash as he is reliable and takes commands really well. The female only goes on a specially leash system I have set up for her. 

Proper training is huge, we have been going to a dog behaviorist with the mix to address her fear issues for the last 6 months and she is really starting to show improvements. We knew how to give basic obedience training but the fear issues were way over our head and has taken a lot of work.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Also consider a mixed breed dog which has the desired physique, ie medium sized, athletic, light boned. Often more laid back than pure breeds. A mid litter female would be my choice. Getting the puppy early (49 days) makes for a stronger bond.


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## 2apples (Sep 28, 2010)

I personaly recomend a rescued dog...lots of nice young dogs out there that need help


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

2apples said:


> I personaly recomend a rescued dog...lots of nice young dogs out there that need help


There is a acd/blue heeler here for adoption, 11mo that I am considering which is why I asked.


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## 2apples (Sep 28, 2010)

cool....thats a pretty good age too....try to spend a few hours with the dog at the shelter or where ever it is...


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

2apples said:


> cool....thats a pretty good age too....try to spend a few hours with the dog at the shelter or where ever it is...


Yeah, will do but haven't heard back from the people. I think I posted it above but one of our other current dogs is an adoption too  We call him koo koo because he's so strange but very nice.

If I hear back from the people, I'll probably take him/her for a walk around the local lake which is about 3 miles and tons of people/dogs/bikers and sometimes a horse person too.

OOC, if we have 2 male dogs now is there any reason we need to go with a female or male?


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## 2apples (Sep 28, 2010)

gticlay said:


> .
> 
> OOC, if we have 2 male dogs now is there any reason we need to go with a female or male?


I dont think so..its more dependent on the individual dogs personality's

I work as a dogsled tour guide and work with over 100 dogs and know each one very well..matching them up in pairs too work together is all about the individual dogs in question and much less about male or female


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## WickedGood (Aug 19, 2008)

My SO and I have 2 ACDs and one ACD mix between the two of us. They are all super dogs. They need a job and they are very intelligent and have incredible stamina.... they are the ultimate mountain bike dog IMHO. I think the breed as a whole has a tendancy at dog aggression, but by socializing them you can control that behavior very easily. I clocked my ACD mix at 28 mph and the longest he's gone is 15 miles... only because I had had enough by then LOL.


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## munsonbw (Dec 31, 2007)

gticlay said:


> There is a acd/blue heeler here for adoption, 11mo that I am considering which is why I asked.


Be VERY careful with this. We adopted a ACD mix of some sort that was just about to be put down. He was probably 2yrs old or so and spent an unknown amount of time in a shelter. He had just been neutered and was rescued by a local herding dog rescue who brought him to us within a few weeks of her getting him from the shelter. Unfortunately, we never got to spend any time with him prior to his botched neutering. When we got him he was obviously in pain and we assumed this was the cause of his very angry growling at his tail. It turns out it was not. We stuck it out and tried to rehabilitate him as best we could, but no amount of love or exercise has ever gotten him to the point were he won't chase his tail and bite it into a bloody mess. We have had him now for 7 years and is never aggressive to people, but has nipped at people occasionally as a warning. The self mutilation and other bad habits really make having him around our new baby hard. We can't stand to put him down, but also can't in good conscience give him away. After watching a Dog Whisperer about a dog with a very similar background and issues, it turns out some dogs just don't recover from the abuse of previous owners or being caged in a shelter can do. ACD especially need jobs and exercise. Denying them this can lead to the neurotic behavior others have mentioned.

To keep it short, be sure to spend plenty of time with the dog before adopting. See if you can be a foster owner for an extended period of time. We really thought between our efforts and our rat terrier we could help him overcome his issues. I truly believe having a dog is a commitment for the long haul, be sure he/she is what you want.


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## Chalkpaw (Dec 28, 2007)

Heelers are awesome! Out on a hike the other day, the dogs ran ahead to a favorite lake. Little did I know they left a surprise for me to find. Oh, how nice.


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## crump582 (Apr 8, 2010)

My Mom has a Jack Russel that LOVES to follow me on my bike when I ride over there... and someone mentioned to her that a lot of people are starting to breed "Heeler Jacks" and they are AWESOME dogs. Seems ike agood mix to me... but I would love to get a rescue and am all for it, so good luck with it!


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## 2ridealot (Jun 15, 2004)

My wife and I rescued a rhodesian mix shelter dog last year and she is turning into a great trail dog. I found out after adopting that the breed can run up to 30 miles. Mine goes up to 15 no problems and loves every minute of it. No herding instinct but will put the nose to the ground if you don't keep her interested. If you are set on a heeler, great dogs and will probably be a great trail dog. Good luck


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## farrisw1 (Jul 22, 2009)

My ACD is great when it comes to mt. biking/hiking/camping, she will pretty much go as long as I'm going. I never leash her, there's no need, she won't get more than 5' from me. I never spent much time with her doing extensive training but she follows commands and listens well. She is extremely smart and learned the usual "sit, shake, lay down" in about 15-20 min. when she was only a few months old. The only issue I've ever had with her is protectiveness/aggression when strangers or other dogs come around me but the more I socialize her the better she gets and now she really only shows this side when we're at home so I don't mind it since I like her "guard dog" attitude _there_. I can't imagine having any other dog, but I guess nobody can once they get attached to thier pet. Oh, also, she does do a bit of heel nipping as well as some bike tire nipping at the beginning of the rides but after a few feet she realizes she won't have much luck herding my bike and she calms down and just follows along beside/behind me...


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

We got a dog that has cattle dog mixed in. We got her at 7 months and she was in shelters before that. It took a long time for her to warm up to guys and she is generally nervous inside. Like others said i would be careful about how the dog behaves after being in a shelter for 11 months. Check out the Kelpie and the Koolie dogs too. The other Aussie herding dogs. The Kelpie herds differently so you don't have the nipping that the Heelers are known for.

I'm more of Mutt fan myself. I like the uniqueness of looks and personality of a mutt.

My guess is our dog is lab and Kelpie mix.










She is great on the trail so far.


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## naya the dingo (Aug 26, 2010)

idbrian said:


> We got a dog that has cattle dog mixed in. We got her at 7 months and she was in shelters before that. It took a long time for her to warm up to guys and she is generally nervous inside. Like others said i would be careful about how the dog behaves after being in a shelter for 11 months. Check out the Kelpie and the Koolie dogs too. The other Aussie herding dogs. The Kelpie herds differently so you don't have the nipping that the Heelers are known for.
> 
> I'm more of Mutt fan myself. I like the uniqueness of looks and personality of a mutt.
> 
> ...


From that picture, your dog looks like a white version of my dog Naya. She's all black, and was found on the side of the highway when she was 12 weeks old. She's almost nine years old now and I would swear to you she is a coyote mix. She is extremely loyal, obedient, intelligent, and dedicated to hunting all things furry and small. Terrified of a lot of mechanical things and also of thunderstorms. I could write a novel on this dog, she had separation anxiety really bad when she was a puppy, the vet prescribed her Prozac (seriously). She is an escape artist as well, I think that has to do more with the separation anxiety than anything else. She's a nut, but she is the best dog I've ever had.


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## abegold (Jan 30, 2004)

I have an English Pointer mix, excellent trail dog. Good endurance, speed and long gait. Points out wildlife. Tall and light Shelby got on my tire from the first pedal stroke after getting her at the Humaine Society.
Had a rotti, they are not build for speed, same with big shepards. Lean dogs are best, just like marathon runners. Not many 240 pounders out running marathons and if they do they won't be fast.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Thank you for all the help guys. The person that had the ACD hasn't responded to any e-mails... probably already found a home (hopefully?)


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## Slowup (Dec 16, 2009)

bsieb said:


> Also consider a mixed breed dog which has the desired physique, ie medium sized, athletic, light boned. Often more laid back than pure breeds. A mid litter female would be my choice. Getting the puppy early (49 days) makes for a stronger bond.


This is exactly what we did and now I have the best trail dog evah. She's part Lab-Blue Heeler-German Shepherd-Bodie Collie-who knows what but she listens great, runs like the wind and never leaves my sight. Most importantly she's great company and never complains.


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## jdfelt (Mar 29, 2009)

If you are still interested in either getting an ACD or getting more info, the following forum is a great resource for info and rescues. www.aucado.us


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## nexus666 (May 14, 2010)

I have owned healers and kelpies all my life and for a dog to run with me a kelpie is my pick. Bit lighter framed than most healers and so a bit more agile and quicker, not necessarily more endurance than a healer, but they just seem to do it a bit easier. None of my dogs were purebred in any sense of the word. Kelpies also seem a bit more sociable to me. But i think healers have more character. cant go wrong with either.


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

I run a rescue for cattle dogs and other high energy dogs, we pass dozens of dogs through our home every few months. Most of which were brought to us by people who lead active lifestyles who thought they needed a dog that could keep up. Turns out they were the ones trying to keep up. Cattle dogs, REQUIRE daily exercise and while you say this might not be a problem, if you can only find the time to exercise the dog properly once or twice a week maybe you should look for a different dog. Many times they are brought in because they do not typically make good family pets, or the owners had too small of a yard to properly exercise. Things I require before letting someone rescue one of our pups, a tall fenced yard (or radio fence of some sort), these dogs are VERY high energy they are also escape artists, they will jump over a typical fence, burrow underneath them, find a spot that they can get out (mostly radio fences and dead zones). I require the person to understand that the dog really should have a job if you have animals for them to herd all the better, if you want to train it for agility, frisbee, jumping search and rescue etc great! they are good at all of those. Want to train it for trails (usually I do that for you) you need to make sure it isnt herding you the whole time, instead it understands that its job is to follow you, and to have fun with you.

If you are serious about this throw me a PM I can find you a cattle dog. The few I have right now are spoken for just waiting on paperwork to clear.

They are one of the smartest dogs you will find That creates a lot of its own problems, they are free thinkng, you beat it one day it will remember it forever, they each have very distinct personalities, and they are all very loyal loving dogs, they usually take to 1 person more than others, and will follow that person to the grave, however they are not trying to prove anything to that 1 person like a lab. They instead are constantly challenging you, its a battle of the wits with them.

All of that negative being said. they are my favorite breed of dog for many reasons, just not for everyone.

Here are a few shots of our first ACD. Ozzy.

He loves christmas, and I dont mean like he likes christmas day, but when he sees the tree go up he knows it means a day full of fun and playing, he will drag his bed across the living room and place it next to the tree... 









My husband and Ozzy setting up the tree. 









We sport orange this time of year because running in the woods we can be mistaken for a coyote gotta love open season. 









Playing in the snow 

















I do SAR with my personal dogs, my wolf hybrids do deep wilderness rescue, while the cattle dogs do avalanche, and vertical rescue. It is a great way to teach the dog to respect you, and the training is very extensive so you will end up with a very smart pooch, who is loyal to the end of the earth, and who knows he has a job to do when the vest goes on. Again if this is something you are interested in let me know.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

Pink Barron, you sent me in the right direction for even considering my dog had Kelpie in her. She sticks to my girlfriend and is either indifferent to me or ignores me in the house. Outside of the house she heeds to my command and actually responds to my commands more than my girlfriend and acts the same to both of us. 

As far as escape artist go, on the first time we crated her and left her in the house for a couple hours she escaped. It was a metal crate with two locks. When we got home only one of the locks was undone, the door to the crate was shut, and the dog was sitting on the couch.


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## Scribb (May 4, 2006)

Healer mix--some kind of hound and likely shepherd. As a larger dog, he can only go a couple of miles before dragging ass, but he loves to race me in a sprint. I don't take him on long rides anymore--I think it' too hard on him, though he'd never admit it. Instead, I take him on rides with the kid, and I ride him sometimes instead of walking him. On the upside, the mix means he's a little mellower than purebreds--he was crazy frenetic as a puppy, but he's settling down as an adult. Great with kids, but he will nip, and he will get aggressive with sketchy strangers (uncanny judgment IMHO), so I keep vigilant and on-leash when I have him out in public.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

A few people on this thread referred to mixes as being generally calmer/mellower. I've always had mutts and have never heard that before.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

idbrian said:


> A few people on this thread referred to mixes as being generally calmer/mellower. I've always had mutts and have never heard that before.


It's only sometimes true....

So definately no response on the 11/mo that I was considering. My vet thinks a French Brittany would be good since that's what he has. She's a real nice dog too. So many choices..... and one that I don't want to get wrong since I'll have him/her for a very long time.


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

A French Brittany would be great for leisurely rides I wouldnt push it too hard they have a lot of energy but not so much to the point that you can work them constantly or straight. A short ride over decent terrain, a long slow ride with plenty of stops, dont push her too hard they are real loyal dogs and will run ragged for you.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

ThePinkBarron said:


> A French Brittany would be great for leisurely rides I wouldnt push it too hard they have a lot of energy but not so much to the point that you can work them constantly or straight. A short ride over decent terrain, a long slow ride with plenty of stops, dont push her too hard they are real loyal dogs and will run ragged for you.


My rides are 1-2.5 hours max and about 2-4 times a week. I'm not sure what long or short is to others, but 1 hours is short, 2.5 is long (to me). Actually, I may not ride enough to work an ACD after reading your posts.


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## huwe (Jul 10, 2010)

The amount that your riding is perfect for a lab. It sound like that isnt the breed your after, but a mid framed lab would thrive with that amount of running. It would also keep the negative traits at bay, you know a tired dog is a happy dog/owner. I have a four year old akc lab who is about 70 lbs. She loves to ride, she can run like the wind in diverse weather for an hour or two. The only thing i really have to worry about over here in Yakima is her cutting her paws on sharp rocks. 

However the best trail dog i have ridden with was a English springer spaniel. she could do thirty mile all day rides without issue. she followed commands to a t. and was faster then all get out. she would also learn trails and know where to cut. you would wonder where she ran off to and look up and she was waiting at the next turn for you to catch a breather. absolutely a pleasure to ride with that dog. 

remember with any dog you choose. dont run em till after six months of age, to hard on developing cartilage and bone. Like kids, they are a direct reflection of their master.

good luck, personally my next dog will be a rescue pup that is not a pure breed. im looking a heeler mix with lab or german long hair. athletic, loyal, and rugged.


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## DJ Giggity (Sep 9, 2008)

IMO a healer/lab mix is the ultimate trail dog. A pure breed healer can be a bit much with the working traits. The lab mellows that out. I don't think I would own anything else at this point.


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## Scribb (May 4, 2006)

A couple of you have mentioned heeler mixed with a mid-size dog as a perfect trail dog. That's what I've got--he's about 70 pounds (pics above). But I'm starting to think rides over 45 minutes are too much. Every direction around here is up--so he's got to do about 800-1000 feet of climbing, and usually by the end of an hour ride he's lagging and loping. Maybe I just need to get him on a training routine and some hammer gel.


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## scott.schmitz (Sep 21, 2009)

gticlay said:


> ......Right now we have a couple of Pomeranians but they are 'the wife's' and are too small to go riding with me anyway.....
> 
> I know I am pretty late on this thread but as soon as I read this I had to reply.
> 
> ...


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## DJ Giggity (Sep 9, 2008)

Scribb said:


> A couple of you have mentioned heeler mixed with a mid-size dog as a perfect trail dog. That's what I've got--he's about 70 pounds (pics above). But I'm starting to think rides over 45 minutes are too much. Every direction around here is up--so he's got to do about 800-1000 feet of climbing, and usually by the end of an hour ride he's lagging and loping. Maybe I just need to get him on a training routine and some hammer gel.


I guess you have to be careful what the other breed is. My lab/healer was good for over 20mi and 4000+ climbing as long as there wasn't too much gravel. She slowed down after she was about 8 though.

Edit: Scribb, I reread your earlier post. My dog also had the sketchy person radar. It is one of the coolest dog traits ever.


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## scott.schmitz (Sep 21, 2009)

oh yea, and the down hill rides here in town (Heidelberg, Germany) are usually between 60-90 minutes up and 20-30 minutes down, with rests and all. I usually carry him on fireroads when I am trying to just get to the next section of single track, to give him a rest, and i can go a little faster. Plus he rode with me and my buddy when we went camping in Switzerland. It was probably about 45 minutes of non-stop downhill, and that was just the second half. It took us longer the first run with Rascal though because we stopped a few times to give him more breaks. When we got to camp though he was DONE he just fell over and slept the rest of the day. My little Yorkie/Maltese has so much energy and his name suits him perfectly.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I like all the sucess stories (and at least 1 not so great - thanks!). Hopefully I end up with a dog that really enjoys riding (running) with me. I'm sure I will. Careful with the Weimaraner Scott. Of all the dogs on my mountain, I've been bitten by that breed 2x!!! None of the others even pay attention to me because I'm not their person.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Don't get a rottie to run with you. They get arthritis in the rear end.

I was going to suggest a pug as a handlebar ornament - you know, to scare things away cause they look like a gremlin, but probably an Australian Kelpie is your ideal dog - better behaved (less of a risk for biting someone) than a heeler. Try here - www.callicoma.com.au/

They sell dogs overseas and only good ones to people who deserve a good dog. These guys can really run.


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## Scribb (May 4, 2006)

DJ Giggity said:


> Edit: Scribb, I reread your earlier post. My dog also had the sketchy person radar. It is one of the coolest dog traits ever.


It is cool. First time I noticed it he was a puppy. We were sitting in the car at a gas station and he started growling. I look up and he's staring intently out the window. The guy he's growling at is something like 30 or 40 yards away--I never would have even noticed him--but he's walking in our direction and he's got a big coat with a hood on. The dog is on point in the back seat and growling, all the way until the guy walks past. Very creepy dude. I was impressed. Made me think I should pay attention to the dog's opinion of people.


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## scott.schmitz (Sep 21, 2009)

hmmmm, i’ll keep that in mind. thanks. good luck with finding your new best friend and riding partner


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

Scribb said:


> It is cool. First time I noticed it he was a puppy. We were sitting in the car at a gas station and he started growling. I look up and he's staring intently out the window. The guy he's growling at is something like 30 or 40 yards away--I never would have even noticed him--but he's walking in our direction and he's got a big coat with a hood on. The dog is on point in the back seat and growling, all the way until the guy walks past. Very creepy dude. I was impressed. Made me think I should pay attention to the dog's opinion of people.


My dog does this too but i've identified it as the way people are walking. Sketchy people walk weird. But so do normal people in different situations. I've read a lot about studies about how men's walk messes with dogs. My dog will get all worked up when people are walking barefoot across rocky surfaces for example, due to whatever it is people do with their body in those situations. It is usaully always men that get her worked up. The bigger they are the worse she is. Add in a big coat, big hat, big beard, it gets worse.

I would venture a bet your dog is doing the same.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

We adopted a rescued dog this past June. She's Pointer for sure but God knows what else. Dog is built to run. I took her to the trail, took off the leash and started riding. She stuck to my left rear like glue. Been going with me since. Awesome dog.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

I need to apply for the position of dog excerciser. It think it's fun to have a good, well-trained, energetic dog that likes to run forever along on rides, but I don't want a dog full-time. Does that work?

From the dog experts on the thread....

Any comments on which breed does best in the cold yet still can handle the heat (never gets much over 80 on my summer rides, frequently gets down to 0 deg F on winter rides )? And which breed seems to have the toughest paws?

I ride 5-6 days a week 1- 4 hours. Sounds like I should find someone with an under-excercised heeler or cattle dog mix, eh?

Oh, to gticlay: Did you check out the post in the SoCal forum about someone trying to give away a heeler? Or is this the one you're talking about?


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

KRob said:


> I need to apply for the position of dog excerciser. It think it's fun to have a good, well-trained, energetic dog that likes to run forever along on rides, but I don't want a dog full-time. Does that work?
> 
> From the dog experts on the thread....
> 
> ...


If you have snow on the ground, get a dog that doesn't build up snow/ice balls on it's feet and legs. A sled dog mix, or almost any shorter haired dog, but the sled breeds run well and and love the cold.


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## Mighty Matt (Apr 22, 2009)

i have a border collie golder retriever mix. smartest dog i have ever had. she is a fantastic trail dog but to big to run for any length of time. she is even great with kids, the other day all the little brats were outside running around and she herded them in someones front yard, and kept an eye on them.

i have a friend with a vizsla and his dog is fantastic, run's forever, great with people and other dog's. when i get another dog i am going to get one of them.


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

KRob said:


> I need to apply for the position of dog excerciser. It think it's fun to have a good, well-trained, energetic dog that likes to run forever along on rides, but I don't want a dog full-time. Does that work?
> 
> From the dog experts on the thread....
> 
> ...


Cattle dogs will do fine in this condition as will border collies, vizsla, ridgeback, doberman or any pointer, Australian shepherds (if you keep their hair short in the summer) and huskies (again keep them trimmed up in the summer) Labs do good in various conditions too, though im not a huge fan of running labs over distance because over time they can develop very bad joint issues, and are such a please all dog that they wont stop because of it.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

KRob said:


> I need to apply for the position of dog excerciser. It think it's fun to have a good, well-trained, energetic dog that likes to run forever along on rides, but I don't want a dog full-time. Does that work?
> 
> From the dog experts on the thread....
> 
> ...


Not me mon. I'm smack dab between "the north shore" in BC and Seattle (but USA all the way!).

Maybe I need to add that to my list: Dog wanted - must be able to ride lift at Whistler bike park and clear A-line! Just Kidding.

Edit to add: I'm going to be in LA in 2 weeks so I PM'd the owner. Maybe it'll work out,


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## pureslop (Jul 28, 2008)

ACD's......Just make sure you get a heeler and not a header. I worked on an Australian cattle station in the outback many years ago and worked with both. A header takes some advanced skill to train and handle. They are capable of subduing a full grown wild bull by biting and hanging on to their nose until the bull just stands there trembling and urinating in pain. Seriously tough dogs. Mostly the same breeding as a heeler, but with a little more bulldog. Used only when a cow or bull bushes up and refuses to herd or gets on the fight. Because of the great distances traveled, we carried them on dirt bikes to keep them fresh, only to say, "sick-'em", when needed. Truly awesome to watch.


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## Nathan Cloud (Jul 18, 2005)

I have a full 8 year old male ACD, a mix 1 year old ACD female and a 6 year old Australian Shepherd.

With that I completely agree with everything ThePinkBarron said!

Super loyal dogs for sure. Always testing you? Absolutely. Trying to get away with things non stop. Tough dogs. Plus in the case of the 2 we have, they have some of the most peculiar habits I have ever seen. My two bits of advice?

1) Yeah, you gotta get them out as much as you can! 
2) Be especially diligent and consistent! Don't let them get away with a bad habit "here and there" - they will remember and exploit.

As far as aggressiveness, my male gets a little grouchy here and there with other dogs. He definitely rules the park - though if he starts getting snippy he will stop when I tell him to "be nice!". He was never really much of a natural herder either. Our new females herding instincts on the other hand is off the charts. Our poor Aussie being her target.

Great dogs though.

I call this one the "miracle photo"


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

pureslop said:


> ACD's......Just make sure you get a heeler and not a header. I worked on an Australian cattle station in the outback many years ago and worked with both. A header takes some advanced skill to train and handle. *They are capable of subduing a full grown wild bull by biting and hanging on to their nose until the bull just stands there trembling and urinating in pain. * Seriously tough dogs. Mostly the same breeding as a heeler, but with a little more bulldog. Used only when a cow or bull bushes up and refuses to herd or gets on the fight. Because of the great distances traveled, we carried them on dirt bikes to keep them fresh, only to say, "sick-'em", when needed. Truly awesome to watch.


That is pretty awesome.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Had a Blue Heeler which was a cattle dog until we sold our spread, great dog, mega intelligent, wants to learn, wants to play, very loyal, was a pound dog adopted at probably three year old, lived to be 18 before she was hit by a car. 
Have had several pound dogs/strays, best dogs in the world IMO, they just want a home and to be loved and seem to be more appreciateive because of it.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Taj and his Heeler:


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## TX_Shifter (Aug 14, 2007)

My father has a two year old Aus. Shepard, black and white. When I come and visit, it seems this dog has the energy to be a riding buddy. Heck he is an Aus. Shepard so its in his blood. I think he would run circles around my white lab that I owned couple years ago. I may attempt to take him out and see if he would stay with me. Very friendly dog for sure. Not sure if he would tag with me or wonder off in another direction if I was to take him along for a trail ride.

Here's a pic of him when he was a pup. 
Bigger now, with pointy ears like a German Shepard 



















Here he is when he was a pup.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

It must be that Aus Shephards are much more known or something. Often when i'm talking about Aus Cattle Dogs people start talking about someone they know that has an Aus Shephard. These dogs are nothing alike.


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## robinlikethebird (Sep 16, 2009)

How long of rides do ya'll go on with your doggers?


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## hungryhead (Apr 9, 2007)

I have a red heeler - until she was 4 i could take her on rides up to 3hrs or 20 miles long...she is now 5 and she has slowed down quite a bit - I only take her on casual rides now..where I am the only person riding with her so she can chill and rest more often. The best dog I've seen on a trail.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

I like to take my dog with me on the more technical rides as i stop often and play. For fast and flowy i would keep the dog home. I think it is the consistent running that is hard. Not the time. I wouldn't take the dog on more than a 14 miler myself. She doesn't get enough constant exercise like that in order for me to feel safe taking her longer.


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## deranged (May 2, 2006)

pitanan said:


> My wife and I rescued a rhodesian mix shelter dog last year and she is turning into a great trail dog. I found out after adopting that the breed can run up to 30 miles. Mine goes up to 15 no problems and loves every minute of it. No herding instinct but will put the nose to the ground if you don't keep her interested. If you are set on a heeler, great dogs and will probably be a great trail dog. Good luck


My Rhodesian Ridgeback will run until he can't anymore, and luckily I never make it that far. He's awesome at home and with other people and kids, and he can sure as hell run faster than I can pedal.

He's a big one too, 100 lbs.


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## TX_Shifter (Aug 14, 2007)

idbrian said:


> It must be that Aus Shephards are much more known or something. Often when i'm talking about Aus Cattle Dogs people start talking about someone they know that has an Aus Shephard. These dogs are nothing alike.


Sorry, my bad.:madman:


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

I am from Australia.
The first dogs that I see in the pics are Blue Heelers.
The one in the pics just above look like Border Collies.

Never heard them called anything else down here.
Also the ones that you guys call Australian Shepherds I have never even seen down here. In fact a quick check on Wiki tells me that they are not Australian dogs at all.

Lucky we are not New York or we would sue for you guys using our name for our dogs.


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## 904ccs (Jan 31, 2010)

*Blue Heeler & Heeler Border Collie Cross*

My Riding partners. A six year old heeler rescued from the local pound when he was a year old, and my seven year old heeler/border collie cross from a local farm.

Both excellent trail dogs, but the cross doesn't like anyone lagging behind - when the slow poke arrives he/she is guaranteed a cautionary chew of the foot to punish stringing the "herd" out !!

Boundless energy, never run off, love to ride on the North Shore, but I wish the heeler wouldn't run ALL the ladders and skinnies - gaps in the cedar planks threaten to swallow his legs.


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## Hardline (Jan 16, 2004)

I have a Red Heeler. She is about 5 yrs old and we got her from an animal shelter when she was 2. She is quiet and laid back. Much unlike most heelers. She just wants to lazy around the house. You can not get her excited to do anything. LOL She is very timid though to my voice. I think that a male may have abused her before we got her and she still has it etched in her mind. She also does not like thunder storms. I wish I could get her over these issues. JJ


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## Miles2go (Nov 4, 2006)

gticlay said:


> Been reading up here and in other places. Seems like they have plenty of MTB energy, can get along with other dogs, can be mellow at home (is this true?) and don't tend to wander off since they like to be with their person.
> 
> There are quite a few people around here with Border Collies and Aus. Shepards but they seem like a major handful. There's also people breeding those together.


I've had dogs all my life and Border Collies have been the best. 18 mile Moab mtb with the pooch, no problem. Leaving our 3 year old BC at home full of very expensive stuff we don't want messed up for 5 hours, no problem. Getting the right Border Collie is key or training the dog correctly is key. Our latest is a rescue and I just had to find a dog that hadn't been given any bad habits by previous owners. Picked up on my training instantly. With almost no effort he's highly trained. Example, when I tell my dog to poop, he turns right and does his business. Great with kids, super watch dog, affectionate and not prone to jetting off away from their person. Our last two BCs lived to about 16 years old and up until their last month they were still able to get out there and enjoy the trails.

All of the dogs mentioned in this thread that can run with a rider for extended miles should be given a daily job to keep them happy. Our little guy walks my wife to work and back each day.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

deranged said:


> My Rhodesian Ridgeback will run until he can't anymore, and luckily I never make it that far. He's awesome at home and with other people and kids, and he can sure as hell run faster than I can pedal.
> 
> He's a big one too, 100 lbs.


I have a big Ridgeback too. He's three and just under 140 pounds.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Why do people bring dogs to MTB trails?*

It seems pretty inappropriate and in the case of many dog owners downright dangerous to other trail users. In many places dogs are not even allowed off-leash but I see people letting their dogs run free. I'm really fed up with the practice myself, sorry to be a grumpy old man about it but that's the way I feel.


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## DJ Giggity (Sep 9, 2008)

tl1 said:


> It seems pretty inappropriate and in the case of many dog owners downright dangerous to other trail users. In many places dogs are not even allowed off-leash but I see people letting their dogs run free. I'm really fed up with the practice myself, sorry to be a grumpy old man about it but that's the way I feel.


For the same reason those kids are always on your lawn. It's to piss you off.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Hardly*



DJ Giggity said:


> For the same reason those kids are always on your lawn. It's to piss you off.


Kids on my lawn usually don't bite and aggressively bark at me even if their parents are really bad.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

tl1 said:


> It seems pretty inappropriate and in the case of many dog owners downright dangerous to other trail users. In many places dogs are not even allowed off-leash but I see people letting their dogs run free. I'm really fed up with the practice myself, sorry to be a grumpy old man about it but that's the way I feel.


Because its awesome and not every dog owner needs to be punished because of other poor dog owners. Nothing inappropriate at all, just enjoying the trails in a way that doesn't negatively effect others. That's what it is all about.

If trail use was designated by the bad seeds for each group of users, nobody would be allowed on the trails.


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## Baller30 (Nov 6, 2010)

Anybody who believes all the bad rumors about Border collies not being good pets and only working dogs are people who have not owned one, or correctly trained one. I have a 8 month old pup now and i can leave him home all day and he wont ruin a thing and he follows me everywhere i go outside. Great dog and tons of energy, i cant wait to start training him to follow me on the bike.


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## Miles2go (Nov 4, 2006)

tl1 said:


> Kids on my lawn usually don't bite and aggressively bark at me even if their parents are really bad.


No, they need to get a little older before they start behaving like that. 

None of our dogs have ever bitten anyone or even thought about it. Nor have they barked unless sensing danger to their people. I can also voice command my BC off the trail and park him there until he's released. Having a dog comes with a lot of responsibility and just like kids and parents are judged as individuals based on their behaviors, so should dogs and their owners.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

tl1 said:


> It seems pretty inappropriate and in the case of many dog owners downright dangerous to other trail users. In many places dogs are not even allowed off-leash but I see people letting their dogs run free. I'm really fed up with the practice myself, sorry to be a grumpy old man about it but that's the way I feel.


Where I run my dogs, they're allowed off leash as long as they're under voice control. I worry more about the dirt bikes that have hit me in the past, or the horse people who remind you they're on a "unpredictable wild animal."


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

I never thought of this as my dog has only been with me on a few rides; are horses spooked by dogs as easy as they are spooked by bikes?


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## scjohn (Jul 21, 2010)

the cracker said:


> However the best trail dog i have ridden with was a English springer spaniel. she could do thirty mile all day rides without issue. she followed commands to a t. and was faster then all get out. she would also learn trails and know where to cut. you would wonder where she ran off to and look up and she was waiting at the next turn for you to catch a breather. absolutely a pleasure to ride with that dog.
> 
> English Springers are awesome dogs, Plenty of endurance and energy for 1.5 - 4 hour rides. Their instincts are amazing. Our springer has never once cut me or my son off on a ride and will not let my son or myself out of his sight. I would absolutely recommend a English Springer(springer spaniel) as a trail companion. We have had labs and retrievers and the Springer seems to be far smarter and just as, if not more affectionate and they come in a slightly smaller package.
> 
> ...


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Every dog owner thinks their dog is fine*



idbrian said:


> Because its awesome and not every dog owner needs to be punished because of other poor dog owners. Nothing inappropriate at all, just enjoying the trails in a way that doesn't negatively effect others. That's what it is all about.
> 
> If trail use was designated by the bad seeds for each group of users, nobody would be allowed on the trails.


It's always the _other guy_ that has a problem dog. I spent years going into people's homes in my work and hearing "Don't mind him, he doesn't bite" and often finding out later the dog does act aggressively and has a long history of doing so. I'm sure you're a great dog owner but we all always do suffer from the actions of the irresponsible and we always will. Keep the dogs at the dog park or at home and off the public trails.

Beyond that I find it ultra reprehensible that we in the USA spend over $18 billion each year on pet food while millions of _humans_ starve. It's just another symptom of the extreme narcissism and waste in our culture. I won't even go into how many dogs are simply let loose when the owner feels bored with it.


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## 904ccs (Jan 31, 2010)

tl1 said:


> Beyond that I find it ultra reprehensible that we in the USA spend over $18 billion each year on pet food while millions of _humans_ starve. It's just another symptom of the extreme narcissism and waste in our culture.


Wow, this from a guy who says in a previous posting: "I own, ride and enjoy several 26" bikes" - what a hypocrite !

Owning all these bikes = "extreme waste"

Telling everyone about it on a popular, internationally read website = "extreme narcissism" .

Lighten up feller, donate all but one of your bikes to the needy, and I'll keep taking my dogs on the PUBLIC trails with me.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Whatever*



904ccs said:


> Wow, this from a guy who says in a previous posting: "I own, ride and enjoy several 26" bikes" - what a hypocrite !
> 
> Owning all these bikes = "extreme waste"
> 
> ...


Valiant try but that's off topic and unrelated to the subject of dogs. You must have had to dig back through my posts _for years_ to pick out that chestnut. I don't have to feed my bikes (either gasoline or dog food) and all of them are low budget builds from used parts except for my newest bike, a 2007 Salsa El Mariachi complete that I bought new in '07. Lighten up indeed. 

Go ahead and take your dogs on the trails just be aware that a growing number of MTBers (and hunters with guns) are getting fed up with the practice because of so many irresponsible dog owners.


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## pureslop (Jul 28, 2008)

"All Dogs Must Remain Off Leash"

I have seen this sign once at a trail head in Texas, and I think the idea should spread.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

tl1- You would like my dog because she would completely ignore you. 

BC mix, sharp as a tack.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

LOVE your dogs.



904ccs said:


> My Riding partners. A six year old heeler rescued from the local pound when he was a year old, and my seven year old heeler/border collie cross from a local farm.
> 
> Both excellent trail dogs, but the cross doesn't like anyone lagging behind - when the slow poke arrives he/she is guaranteed a cautionary chew of the foot to punish stringing the "herd" out !!
> 
> Boundless energy, never run off, love to ride on the North Shore, but I wish the heeler wouldn't run ALL the ladders and skinnies - gaps in the cedar planks threaten to swallow his legs.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Hey, hey, hey all you crazy fightin' people... this is a peaceful thread. Taking yer fightin' words into your own thread! BOB found a good home for his ACD and I'm still trying to find one  There is a mini Aus Shep that's being trained for Marley and Me 2 avail on a few miles from me and thinking of applying.... I just need a companion that can run on the trails, then be mellow with our other dogs at home.


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## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

I will put in another vote for Vizslas or ridgebacks since they are great biking dogs and fit right in with the family. Your pointing breeds generally appreciate a large back yard for fetch when you can't get out on a ride.

One thing to consider is how much shedding and hair you want around the house. A Sheppard is going to shed a lot compared to your shorter haired dogs. Find out how much fur your wife is ok with around the house.


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## Loudpawlz (Jan 26, 2004)

back on topic

He's a mix. Not built for speed or endurance, but loves a good ride or run. Got him from the pound and really lucked out with his temperament and energy level.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

tl1 said:


> It's always the _other guy_ that has a problem dog. I spent years going into people's homes in my work and hearing "Don't mind him, he doesn't bite" and often finding out later the dog does act aggressively and has a long history of doing so. I'm sure you're a great dog owner but we all always do suffer from the actions of the irresponsible and we always will. Keep the dogs at the dog park or at home and off the public trails.
> 
> Beyond that I find it ultra reprehensible that we in the USA spend over $18 billion each year on pet food while millions of _humans_ starve. It's just another symptom of the extreme narcissism and waste in our culture. I won't even go into how many dogs are simply let loose when the owner feels bored with it.


In every dog thread on this board some riders come in and start complaining. There seems to be a select group of tasty individuals that are constantly getting bit by dogs. I've never had a bad encounter and don't personally know anyone else that has one with a dog on a trail before.

I'll explain that my dog doesn't attack people, you'll explain that is what every bad dog owner says, blah blah blah. Like i said, it's simple, it's about enjoying the trail while not negatively effecting others. And that point goes beyond dogs.

I and everyone else in this thread that rides with their dog will continue to do so no matter how much you complain.


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## hungryhead (Apr 9, 2007)

904ccs said:


> Lighten up feller


+1 - I think the dude should have a lot more to worry than what other people spend their hard earned money on.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*What?*



idbrian said:


> In every dog thread on this board some riders come in and start complaining. There seems to be a select group of tasty individuals that are constantly getting bit by dogs. I've never had a bad encounter and don't personally know anyone else that has one with a dog on a trail before.
> 
> I'll explain that my dog doesn't attack people, you'll explain that is what every bad dog owner says, blah blah blah. Like i said, it's simple, it's about enjoying the trail while not negatively effecting others. And that point goes beyond dogs.
> 
> I and everyone else in this thread that rides with their dog will continue to do so no matter how much you complain.


It's not like I advocated eating them or anything.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Definitely agree with what people are saying here... dont buy something go rescue a pup and go from there. The wife and I have 3 rescues, all pit mix, with the latest coming from the indian rez where she was abused, underfeed, and not taken care of. She followed my wife home on a 5 mile run and is (from what the doc says) a Lab/Pit/Mastif mix (def lab and pit but not sure about the mastif). Anyways, all three are great dogs. The running/riding buddy I have it the German Short-Hair/Pit mix. Beware though, GSH are SERIOUSLY neurotic dogs, need a job, and super high energy. We can go for a 10mile bike ride and it will take him an hour max to recover and be ready to go again. As I just started riding I have not taken him for longer than that, still want to work on him staying with me and not going in front of my tires!


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## alleygrinder (Jun 6, 2004)

Heelers are great traildogs.

Gotta go easy on them when they're young, and remember, on downhills - they'll go nuts trying to keep up, and if you go too fast, they can hurt themselves - sad, and can result in large vet bills.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

Gotten about 5 rides in with our Heeler mix. The dog seems to understand the concept pretty well as she stays right on the trails and now always takes the harder line that i will take. Even if there is a simple go around she goes up and over the obstacles.


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

TR said:


> Also the ones that you guys call Australian Shepherds I have never even seen down here. In fact a quick check on Wiki tells me that they are not Australian dogs at all.


Utah is herding dog central for the USA. We have tons of Aussie Shepherds, ACDs and Border Collies around here.

As for Aussie Shepherds, my understanding is that the breed was developed in the American Mountain West specifically to deal with the weather extremes that ACDs have a hard time with, mostly by Basque sheep ranchers who used European dog stock. The name is because Americans got confused.

With a bit of thoughtfulness, our Aussie/quarter-Border does really well in both summer and winter Utah conditions. I think that it is pretty obvious that she is mountain bred.


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