# I never considered an e-bike but .....



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I've never posted or even looked on the e-bike forum nor had an interest in e-bikes but maybe that will change someday so here I am.

I'll be 72 in two months and took delivery on a Santa Cruz Tallboy last October. I am not in the market for anything at the moment but I'm curious because I don't know what the future will bring and I'm always researching my next bike. My road bike is a Cannondale CAAD 12 Ultegra that weighs 16.7 lbs.

I have some questions

Is age even a factor? Most people on e-bikes are a lot younger then me but then so are most people on bikes. Is there a certain age, in general, where people decide to try an e-bike?

What does it feel like riding a bike that might be 45 lbs? Do you notice a difference in handling and stopping? My current SC is 29.9 lbs. 

Is battery life an issue. Having to pedal a heavy bike when I'm in the boonies because the battery died does not sound appealing.

A passing observation on age is that aside from being a bit slower, I still love to climb and ride technical stuff and I get a certain sense of satisfaction when I can pass an e-bike when climbing but that could be because the riders I pass are younger and may not have my experience.

That's about it for now. Just some rambling thoughts from a geezer.*

* This geezer loves new technology and does not live in the past so I'm not going to waste my time feeling that things used to always be better because they weren't. 

PS: Happy Easter


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I think you are exploring an E-bike for the right reasons.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Rent one and answer most, if not all of your questions. YMMV


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

E-bikes are great. You’ll love one.

The only time I notice the weight of mine is when lifting it into the truck. On the trail, IMO, the heavier weight makes it handle better. It’s much more stable and predictable than my regular bikes.
As far as battery life goes, it’s no different than keeping up with the gas level in you’re car. Your bike tells you how much juice you have left, so if you get stuck out in the boonies with a dead battery, it’s no different than running a vehicle out of gas on the side of the highway. If you’re the kind of person that doesn’t pay attention to your fuel gage and run your car out of gas on a regular basis, be prepared to pedal a heavy bike outta the boonies on a regular basis. If you’ve never ran your car out of gas, getting stuck with a dead battery on your ebike will likely never be an issue.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Plus, a ride similar in time to your current ride will cover almost twice the terrain so you'll be pretty tired anyway. Lots of downhill.

Technical uphill, you'll clear stuff you will never dream of on your present bike

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

MX9799 said:


> E-bikes are great. You'll love one.
> 
> The only time I notice the weight of mine is when lifting it into the truck. On the trail, IMO, the heavier weight makes it handle better. It's much more stable and predictable than my regular bikes.
> As far as battery life goes, it's no different than keeping up with the gas level in you're car. Your bike tells you how much juice you have left, so if you get stuck out in the boonies with a dead battery, it's no different than running a vehicle out of gas on the side of the highway. If you're the kind of person that doesn't pay attention to your fuel gage and run your car out of gas on a regular basis, be prepared to pedal a heavy bike outta the boonies on a regular basis. If you've never ran your car out of gas, getting stuck with a dead battery on your ebike will likely never be an issue.


Never ran my car out of gas ...........


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

Younger people ride e-bikes so they can haul ass up and bomb down as many times as they want. Old people (like me and you) ride them so we can manage our effort better and conserve some of the lesser amounts of energy we have. I used to go on long mtb trips with days and days of continuous riding. I can't do that so easily now at 61, recovery is much harder, so having an e-bike will let me be able to keep riding and having fun without tiring me out too much. These are generalizations/observations so nobody get their panties too twisted.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

BmanInTheD said:


> Younger people ride e-bikes so they can haul ass up and bomb down as many times as they want. Old people (like me and you) ride them so we can manage our effort better and conserve some of the lesser amounts of energy we have. I used to go on long mtb trips with days and days of continuous riding. I can't do that so easily now at 61, recovery is much harder, so having an e-bike will let me be able to keep riding and having fun without tiring me out too much. These are generalizations/observations so nobody get their panties too twisted.


I promise not to get my panties in a twist over any kind of bike.


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## trulede (Sep 12, 2018)

Trek have an ebike called E-Caliber, its light and fast, more about assistance than unrealistic power. 33 lb, not bad!

It uses a Fazua motor which you find in lighter ebikes. More and more bikes are coming to the market with this motor, for people who want to ride a bike with a bit of assistance or longer range.


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## dustyman (Feb 13, 2007)

Rev Bubba said:


> I've never posted or even looked on the e-bike forum nor had an interest in e-bikes but maybe that will change someday so here I am.
> 
> I'll be 72 in two months and took delivery on a Santa Cruz Tallboy last October. I am not in the market for anything at the moment but I'm curious because I don't know what the future will bring and I'm always researching my next bike. My road bike is a Cannondale CAAD 12 Ultegra that weighs 16.7 lbs.
> 
> ...


I just purchased a 2021 Tallboy also. I can't believe how good this bike is for only having 120 mm of travel. I also have a Specialized Levo which is around 50 pounds. If your buying the new 2022 Levo which just came out last week then you will not be disappointed, but the older Levo and just about any other regular e-bike out there you will feel a major difference riding in singletrack especially when corning and changing direction. I have not ridden my e-bike once since getting the Tallboy because it's way more fun. I usually use the Levo when its too hot or there is a huge amount of steep climbing. I've never ran out of battery power even on 3 hour plus rides. I have ridden the Levo SL and it handles more like a regular bike, but the motor is loud compared to the regular Levo. The new lighter e-bikes from Specialized and Orbea are all sold out but I've heard that the other bike companies are making lighter versions also. Also keep in mind that you can cover at least 3 times the distance on a e-bike so your body takes more physical abuse. They remind me a little bit of my motocross racing days.


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## Stevirey (Jul 16, 2005)

Rev Bubba said:


> I've never posted or even looked on the e-bike forum nor had an interest in e-bikes but maybe that will change someday so here I am.
> 
> I'll be 72 in two months and took delivery on a Santa Cruz Tallboy last October. I am not in the market for anything at the moment but I'm curious because I don't know what the future will bring and I'm always researching my next bike. My road bike is a Cannondale CAAD 12 Ultegra that weighs 16.7 lbs.
> 
> ...


I'm 69 and just finished an e-bike conversion. Bike is 2006 Banshee Scirocco, best hardtail as per Old MTBR rating. It has resurrected (forgive me) mt. biking for myself. No way on earth you are passing me going uphill. Bike is not street legal.
I haven't had this much fun on a bike in 25 years.
The weight issue. Bike was never light at 35lbs....? It's 54lbs. now.
Because I haven't been on trails in over 5 years, I can't really comment handling. It's no more of a handful than my first mt. bike, a 1993 Rockhoper.
It's just tons of fun. Wish I had one of these years ago when I was commuting to


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

Rev Bubba said:


> Never ran my car out of gas ...........


Then there is a very good chance you're smart enough to manage you're battery life so that you don't run it dead miles from civilization.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

dustyman said:


> I just purchased a 2021 Tallboy also. I can't believe how good this bike is for only having 120 mm of travel. I also have a Specialized Levo which is around 50 pounds. If your buying the new 2022 Levo which just came out last week then you will not be disappointed, but the older Levo and just about any other regular e-bike out there you will feel a major difference riding in singletrack especially when corning and changing direction. I have not ridden my e-bike once since getting the Tallboy because it's way more fun. I usually use the Levo when its too hot or there is a huge amount of steep climbing. I've never ran out of battery power even on 3 hour plus rides. I have ridden the Levo SL and it handles more like a regular bike, but the motor is loud compared to the regular Levo. The new lighter e-bikes from Specialized and Orbea are all sold out but I've heard that the other bike companies are making lighter versions also. Also keep in mind that you can cover at least 3 times the distance on a e-bike so your body takes more physical abuse. They remind me a little bit of my motocross racing days.


To all reading this post that have never been on an emtb, a class 1 emtb is nothing at all like riding a motocross bike.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

There is one easy answer to all your questions. Go demo a bike. Many shops rent/demo them for like $100 a day. Small change when you are about to make a $5000 purchase.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Well Rev Bubba...and I think you're the same RB who's been around here for awhile...your post inspired me to post again after quite a few years, because I'm in the same boat...or maybe I just sailed in that boat. While doing my research on my current and first personal endeavor into this e-bike thing, I stumbled on to a post from mtbr about mid-drive kits...and apparently the no-no associated with some of the category rules on certain power levels. Not sure I agree with it, but I do get it. Anyway, it caused me to long in again after years to check on the scene in here...and lo and behold here is your post contemplating the same thing I've wrestled with for weeks if not months.

I'll be 70 shortly, and I still work part time at the same bike shop here in town as a mechanic going on 17 years...pretty much retired otherwise. When we started getting PAS bikes in the Trek and Specialized line, I was impressed by the "feel" of PAS, but the bikes we got were highly underwhelming. Still, as a hardcore off road motorcycle guy and MTB guy, I could see a glimmer of potential. Toward the end of last year we got a Trek Rail 7, and it's been a demo. Holy crap, now we're talking. One big draw back...damned expensive...even if the 7 isn't the highest end model.

After pedaling around on those underwhelming earlier models, I always said I might consider this venue if they made an adaptable motor of some kind that allowed me to modify one of my existing MTB's...an '08 Nomad or a like-new '03 Bullit. Both bikes were 6+ inch setups that I love, but for some unknown reason I basically quit MTB'ing in 2015 and just dedicated my time to off road motorcycling...which I have no intention of quitting at this point. Fitness has also been somewhat maintained on a hacked together road/gravel bike and a stationary trainer in the house...both of which I hate...LOL!

I guess I was living in a cave...no mtbr research for sure...LOL!...and our shop had no involvement in add-on e-bike kits to speak of in our city. Our full time head mechanic installed a well known mid-drive kit on a guy's recumbent, and well, apparently some of these motor kits are the real deal. So started my journey into researching a bunch of this stuff, and I've settled on one of the mid-drive kits to go on the Bullit first. I say "first" because the Bullit may be a more robust platform for this application, and there don't appear to be any BB clearance issues. I'm pretty much a conservative *******, but I pretty much just had to bite my tongue and go with one of these Chinese Bafang units to get what I thought was the best or at least a good option for what I "think" I need. I am concerned a little with ground clearance, but my Bullit already has a high BB height which may come in handy in this case. The kit was just ordered, so I don't have any 1st hand knowledge, but I'm looking forward to it.

So RB, there it is from a guy in a similar age range with some similar questions. I think some of these factory e-bikes are pretty darned cool, but for me the cost is too high for entry. Also, the apparent power available from some of the mid-drive units is beyond most of these factory offerings. I ride a dirt motorcycle and raced my state's enduro circuit for decades, so I appreciate power. I still want to pedal, but at my age I think I'll appreciate conserving my body a bit longer while still providing a little more "yee-haw" excitement than my legs can produce on the pedals now...LOL!


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

Rev Bubba said:


> Is age even a factor? Most people on e-bikes are a lot younger then me but then so are most people on bikes. Is there a certain age, in general, where people decide to try an e-bike?
> What does it feel like riding a bike that might be 45 lbs?


Riding a e-bike will make you feel years younger! Like a balding 45 year old with a beer gut who's given up.


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## Stroganof (Jan 28, 2006)

At 72, obviously you want to avoid injury, and so you need to realize an e-bike is a different kettle of fish. Just gong up and down a fire road is no big deal, but an e-bike can also help you get into terrain that might bite back, so best to be mindful of that. At 61, my skills are pretty much intact, but not totally, so I try to dial it back a little. Since getting an e-bike I have been hitting some technical uphill trails and have discovered that while I am pretty dialed in to going uphill while pedaling, doing at 3x the speed does bring some challenges and negotiating uphill hairpins at 9mph is different than at 3mph, and takes some getting used to (much to my surprise). No big crashes yet, but not hard to imagine going down while having to much fun blasting into so sketchy tech section. Having watched a few friends get TBI's during relatively minor crashes, I am trying very hard to balance the fun with the risk - tho damn, it is hard to hold myself back sometimes. Just sayin.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

dustyman said:


> I just purchased a 2021 Tallboy also. I can't believe how good this bike is for only having 120 mm of travel. I also have a Specialized Levo which is around 50 pounds. If your buying the new 2022 Levo which just came out last week then you will not be disappointed, but the older Levo and just about any other regular e-bike out there you will feel a major difference riding in singletrack especially when corning and changing direction. I have not ridden my e-bike once since getting the Tallboy because it's way more fun. I usually use the Levo when its too hot or there is a huge amount of steep climbing. I've never ran out of battery power even on 3 hour plus rides. I have ridden the Levo SL and it handles more like a regular bike, but the motor is loud compared to the regular Levo. The new lighter e-bikes from Specialized and Orbea are all sold out but I've heard that the other bike companies are making lighter versions also. Also keep in mind that you can cover at least 3 times the distance on a e-bike so your body takes more physical abuse. They remind me a little bit of my motocross racing days.


With my new SC and waiting the usual 5 years to replace a bike, an e-bike would not be purchased until 2025/26. I expect by then any and all of my concerns and questions will have been answered. Around these parts (that being NJ), any bike I would consider was sold out long ago. I was very lucky to get the 2021 Tallboy in two months last fall. The delivery slipped badly after early October when I took delivery.

As for the Tallboy, yes, it is one hell of a bike and I am quite happy with it. An e-bike may become a necessary option if my knees eventually give out.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

dustyman said:


> I just purchased a 2021 Tallboy also. I can't believe how good this bike is for only having 120 mm of travel. I also have a Specialized Levo which is around 50 pounds. If your buying the new 2022 Levo which just came out last week then you will not be disappointed, but the older Levo and just about any other regular e-bike out there you will feel a major difference riding in singletrack especially when corning and changing direction. I have not ridden my e-bike once since getting the Tallboy because it's way more fun. I usually use the Levo when its too hot or there is a huge amount of steep climbing. I've never ran out of battery power even on 3 hour plus rides. I have ridden the Levo SL and it handles more like a regular bike, but the motor is loud compared to the regular Levo. The new lighter e-bikes from Specialized and Orbea are all sold out but I've heard that the other bike companies are making lighter versions also. Also keep in mind that you can cover at least 3 times the distance on a e-bike so your body takes more physical abuse. They remind me a little bit of my motocross racing days.


These lighter e-bikes is what I was talking about above in my post. I've no desire for a big behemoth plow-bike, but a bike like my Orbea Rise is powerful enough and still light enough to be nimble and fun. BTW, I just found my buddy an Orbea Rise 2 days ago at Bike Bling, so they CAN be had and are out there if you look hard enough.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

TNC said:


> Well Rev Bubba...and I think you're the same RB who's been around here for awhile...your post inspired me to post again after quite a few years, because I'm in the same boat...or maybe I just sailed in that boat. While doing my research on my current and first personal endeavor into this e-bike thing, I stumbled on to a post from mtbr about mid-drive kits...and apparently the no-no associated with some of the category rules on certain power levels. Not sure I agree with it, but I do get it. Anyway, it caused me to long in again after years to check on the scene in here...and lo and behold here is your post contemplating the same thing I've wrestled with for weeks if not months.
> 
> I'll be 70 shortly, and I still work part time at the same bike shop here in town as a mechanic going on 17 years...pretty much retired otherwise. When we started getting PAS bikes in the Trek and Specialized line, I was impressed by the "feel" of PAS, but the bikes we got were highly underwhelming. Still, as a hardcore off road motorcycle guy and MTB guy, I could see a glimmer of potential. Toward the end of last year we got a Trek Rail 7, and it's been a demo. Holy crap, now we're talking. One big draw back...damned expensive...even if the 7 isn't the highest end model.
> 
> ...


TNC, thanks for the reply. New technology is interesting and usually has its place. Having just spent 5k on the Tallboy, I have no intention of buying another bike anytime soon but I have to start somewhere.

I agree that the price of a decent e-bike is almost as frightening as the weight. I have a mental block when a bike goes over 30 lbs. With my timeline, I think weight will come down significantly in the next few years.

Right now an e-bike seems like an electric car which is great for some but won't work for me - a skier who is going out in 10 degree weather and driving hundreds of miles with the possibility that there will be no place to charge the car when I arrive and who doesn't want to wait a half hour for a partial charge that may or may not get me home. Even a Tesla with extended range might not work but, I look to the future for answers, not to the past for excuses, and someday soon, science will answer my questions, or so I believe.

The point is, if I ever really have a point, I am no longer thinking I will wait until I'm 80 to consider an e-bike even though I do get a rush out of passing an e-bike on a climb and seeing the look on the riders face when he realizes how old i am. (I do pay for the exertion later though).

Good hearing from you. I've been on MTBR since I was riding GT's last century.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Stroganof said:


> At 72, obviously you want to avoid injury, and so you need to realize an e-bike is a different kettle of fish. Just gong up and down a fire road is no big deal, but an e-bike can also help you get into terrain that might bite back, so best to be mindful of that. At 61, my skills are pretty much intact, but not totally, so I try to dial it back a little. Since getting an e-bike I have been hitting some technical uphill trails and have discovered that while I am pretty dialed in to going uphill while pedaling, doing at 3x the speed does bring some challenges and negotiating uphill hairpins at 9mph is different than at 3mph, and takes some getting used to (much to my surprise). No big crashes yet, but not hard to imagine going down while having to much fun blasting into so sketchy tech section. Having watched a few friends get TBI's during relatively minor crashes, I am trying very hard to balance the fun with the risk - tho damn, it is hard to hold myself back sometimes. Just sayin.


I've backed off a little but riding fire roads by no means describes what I ride. I didn't have my first bike related ER visit until I was 70 and that was only because my wife, an RN, took one look at my bloody leg and made me go for stitches. It was very funny in admissions saying I crashed in a rock garden while mountain biking and having the people taking the information keep saying, "oh, you fell off you bike on the sidewalk?" Eventually, one nurse, who's son road lift served, understood what I did and got the info correct. If I did that on an e-bike, they would probably think I crashed my moped on the sidewalk .....


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Personally I wouldn't (and don't) consider an ebike a replacement for a real mountain bike. Ebiking and mountain biking are two different sports.

That said, I have both mountain bikes and an ebike. Just took delivery of the latter (Trek Rail 7) about 5 or 6 weeks ago. I also ride an off-road motorcycle. I bought an ebike because I'm experienced with two-wheeled contraptions that include artificial power and they're simply fun. Mine weighs 54# and I consider it light because my dirt bike weighs about 200# more than that.

The ebike is simply a blast. That's all there is to it. Mountain bikes are a blast, too. As are off-road motorcycles. But they're all different; I wouldn't want to do without any of them.

5 years from now should be a good time to buy an ebike. They're changing a lot now and will continue to improve rapidly as they get more & more dialed. The ebike market is very competitive. I recently purchased mine knowing two things: 1) it's pretty dang good right now, and 2) it won't be but a few years before I want a newer / better one.
=sParty


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## jprider (May 24, 2009)

Rev Bubba said:


> I've never posted or even looked on the e-bike forum nor had an interest in e-bikes but maybe that will change someday so here I am.
> 
> I'll be 72 in two months and took delivery on a Santa Cruz Tallboy last October. I am not in the market for anything at the moment but I'm curious because I don't know what the future will bring and I'm always researching my next bike. My road bike is a Cannondale CAAD 12 Ultegra that weighs 16.7 lbs.
> 
> ...


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

I started mountain biking to help stay in shape for off road moto riding/racing. At some point I kinda stopped moto's for around 14 years . Started riding those again around 16 years ago . Bought my first e-bike in July (Trek rail 7) ,so now I have 3 different ways of having fun in the dirt.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

trulede said:


> Trek have an ebike called E-Caliber, its light and fast, more about assistance than unrealistic power. 33 lb, not bad!
> 
> It uses a Fazua motor which you find in lighter ebikes. More and more bikes are coming to the market with this motor, for people who want to ride a bike with a bit of assistance or longer range.


Indeed, 33 lbs. is a reasonable weight for an e-bike. Having just purchased the SC Tallboy, I have moved on to a shorter travel, very capable bike and don't really want an e-Heckler style machine for the terrain I regularly ride. If I was into Enduro/downhill riding, I am 40 minutes from lift served at Mountain Creek, NJ and would have no need for an e-bike.

I will see how this plays out over the next five years.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Stevirey said:


> I'm 69 and just finished an e-bike conversion. Bike is 2006 Banshee Scirocco, best hardtail as per Old MTBR rating. It has resurrected (forgive me) mt. biking for myself. No way on earth you are passing me going uphill. Bike is not street legal.
> I haven't had this much fun on a bike in 25 years.
> The weight issue. Bike was never light at 35lbs....? It's 54lbs. now.
> Because I haven't been on trails in over 5 years, I can't really comment handling. It's no more of a handful than my first mt. bike, a 1993 Rockhoper.
> It's just tons of fun. Wish I had one of these years ago when I was commuting to


... "tons of fun." Its why most of us ride bikes.


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## bow53 (Jan 8, 2021)

I always consider buying an e bike on the climbs


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

It's another arrow in the quiver for me that provides a different, but very pleasurable experience. Not necessary since I ride MTB three times a week with my wife, so "e" activity is just frosting on the cake. If you have one of your old bikes around, you could consider a DIY kit.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

fos'l said:


> It's another arrow in the quiver for me that provides a different, but very pleasurable experience. Not necessary since I ride MTB three times a week with my wife, so "e" activity is just frosting on the cake. If you have one of your old bikes around, you could consider a DIY kit.


I just got rid of my old bikes and am down to one very nice road bike and one very nice mountain bike, neither of which would I consider altering.

I also have space limitations so my next bike is likely a replacement for my current bike, not an add on to the quiver. That is why I have started investigating e-bikes long before I am actually in the market.

Putting my 30 lbs. MTB in the back of my Forester this morning, I was thinking how much it would suck if I had to do that with another 15 - 20 lbs. My wife and I regularly haul around very large and heavy pieces of furniture so its not an issue of not being able to, just a thought of "do I really want to haul around that much weight?"


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Rev Bubba said:


> just a thought of "do I really want to haul around that much weight?"


For me, it is another arrow and the weight is worth it.

You won't know completely until you try one. So far, it has made riding more enjoyable for me, and I liked riding before. Climbs? That's another story ?


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

I have both and ride both a lot. Here is what you need to consider IMO (which is probably worth what you are paying for it).

First, I know a lot of very good and very fit riders that have switched to eBikes exclusively. Most end up getting another analog bike after about 6 to 12 months. Why? Because the riding experience is different, neither is better.

Second, riding an eBike will give you a lot of cardio fitness. A metric sh!^ ton. You end up doing a lot of work in your Z2/3 power levels which is very good for cardio.

Third, you will lose a metric sh!^ ton of power. Why? Because it is really tough/impossible to stay in front of the motor. Systems like Specialized are so good now and so natural that you cannot crush yourself from a power perspective.

Fourth, you will ride longer and farther because it is fun and because you can. We can get 60 miles and 8K of climbing from a single charge on a Specialized 700 wHr battery. The best part is that you won't get home and sit on the couch for the rest of the day because you are so exhausted.

Finally, going uphill at pace, real pace is fun. Having to brake into corners, figure out technical sections by moderating power and body position is awesome. They will climb crazy trails that you would never think possible which opens up a whole new world of cool stuff to ride.

Overall highly recommend getting one. They are an absolute blast to ride and you will end up riding a lot more which is what we all want to do.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Salespunk said:


> I have both and ride both a lot. Here is what you need to consider IMO (which is probably worth what you are paying for it).
> 
> First, I know a lot of very good and very fit riders that have switched to eBikes exclusively. Most end up getting another analog bike after about 6 to 12 months. Why? Because the riding experience is different, neither is better.
> 
> ...


I plan ahead and stick to my plan (that allowed me to retire early and travel lots so I'm not changing my habits now). I won't know for another four or five years which way I'm going. Everyone keeps telling me I will ride so much further. That may be so if you have endless mile of trails but where I live, I have county and state parks to ride no matter what I'm riding. There are a finite amount of trail available. I will just repeat and repeat the same trails over and over. Ride a lot more? I doubt that. I rode 120 days last year. When the weather turns, I ski. I'm trying for 121 days of riding this year. This is not to say I won't, eventually, end up with an e-bike but it won't be for many of the reasons given. It may be that one day I will admit I am getting old(er).


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Glide the Clyde said:


> For me, it is another arrow and the weight is worth it.
> 
> You won't know completely until you try one. So far, it has made riding more enjoyable for me, and I liked riding before. Climbs? That's another story ?


Weirdly, I like climbing. Yes, it hurts.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Salespunk said:


> I have both and ride both a lot. Here is what you need to consider IMO (which is probably worth what you are paying for it).
> 
> First, I know a lot of very good and very fit riders that have switched to eBikes exclusively. Most end up getting another analog bike after about 6 to 12 months. Why? Because the riding experience is different, neither is better.
> 
> ...


This. Best description/explanation of why *I*got an eBike in addition to my high end analog bike. I still ride the Knolly Fugitive 90-95% of the time, but the eBike (which I share with my wife and she rides when we ride together), really opens up some possibilities for me. Longer rides on steeper trails that weren't previously doable/practical or were just stupid hard are now a good option. Looping shorter regular rides for more laps that for me are all long climbs followed my fun descents is also a fun option. Like Sales Punk said, neither one is better. They're different and both fun. And they're both bikes.

From what RevBubba said, those advantages don't really exist yet for him. Not tons of trail options. No long, big mountain climbs, still able to ride and enjoy mtb 3-5 days a week. etc. Rev, when you get to the point that your regular trails are getting too hard to enjoy because you don't have the leg or lung capacity anymore, then definitley don't shy away from an eBike. That's another very good reason/explanation for wanting an eBike. My 88 year old dad is considering one for this very reason.

In the end, they are just bikes with a nice quiet, assist to your input. And they're getting lighter and more mtb-like all the time. The Levo SL and Orbea Rise may fit your style when you're ready.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

KRob said:


> This. Best description/explanation of why *I*got an eBike in addition to my high end analog bike. I still ride the Knolly Fugitive 90-95% of the time, but the eBike (which I share with my wife and she rides when we ride together), really opens up some possibilities for me. Longer rides on steeper trails that weren't previously doable/practical or were just stupid hard are now a good option. Looping shorter regular rides for more laps that for me are all long climbs followed my fun descents is also a fun option. Like Sales Punk said, neither one is better. They're different and both fun. And they're both bikes.
> 
> From what RevBubba said, those advantages don't really exist yet for him. Not tons of trail options. No long, big mountain climbs, still able to ride and enjoy mtb 3-5 days a week. etc. Rev, when you get to the point that your regular trails are getting too hard to enjoy because you don't have the leg or lung capacity anymore, then definitley don't shy away from an eBike. That's another very good reason/explanation for wanting an eBike. My 88 year old dad is considering one for this very reason.
> 
> In the end, they are just bikes with a nice quiet, assist to your input. And they're getting lighter and more mtb-like all the time. The Levo SL and Orbea Rise may fit your style when you're ready.


We have family and friends in Hawaii and NorCal.

I'll be in NorCal in October when we stop for a week on our way to Hawaii. I've ridden the Bay area a few times and two things stand out. Damn, the hills are long. Not technical in the sense of the stuff I normally ride in North Jersey, but they seem to go on and on. Two, where do they hide the rocks and roots? Given a chance, I might enjoy an e-bike for the climbs.

A riding buddy moved to Marin recently and I've asked him to give me the tour. When I in NorCal two years ago, we did Santa Cruz and I rented a bike from Santa Cruz Bikes. A few days later, one of my cousins took me out to ride the Pleasanton Ridge. In Hawaii that trip, we spent two weeks on Kauai where my wife and I rode some tame trails along the coast. It was beautiful and fun and the hardtails we rented were all we needed.

After NorCal its off to Hawaii for a month. I've ridden there a couple times and an e-bike with lots of travel and really fat tires would be nice for the lava fields on the Big Island. Other than that, I'll likely do a lot of road biking on the Kona Coast. Honestly, when we stay on Oahu at the Hale Koa on Waikiki does not lend itself to biking at all so iI'll do some ocean kayaking and maybe surfing.

When we get back in November, it ski season.

Aloha!!!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Rev Bubba said:


> We have family and friends in Hawaii and NorCal.
> 
> I'll be in NorCal in October when we stop for a week on our way to Hawaii. I've ridden the Bay area a few times and two things stand out. Damn, the hills are long. Not technical in the sense of the stuff I normally ride in North Jersey, but they seem to go on and on. Two, where do they hide the rocks and roots? Given a chance, I might enjoy an e-bike for the climbs.
> 
> ...


Retirement is good! I ride an ebike for nothing else but fun. I use to race GT's , albeit BMX. At 50, it just changes stuff up and brings something different to the table. In 5 years from now when you're in the market, who knows what's gonna be out there. It'll be good and I'm sure the Tallboy will be collecting dust! I give you 2 years!


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Salespunk said:


> I have both and ride both a lot. Here is what you need to consider IMO (which is probably worth what you are paying for it).
> 
> First, I know a lot of very good and very fit riders that have switched to eBikes exclusively. Most end up getting another analog bike after about 6 to 12 months. Why? Because the riding experience is different, neither is better.
> 
> ...


Great post; thanks. I'm 56 and very fit, and am waiting for my Orbea Rise M-Team. I'll still have my SS and my very high-end SB100. Can't wait to ride them all, for different reasons!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Rev Bubba said:


> Weirdly, I like climbing. Yes, it hurts.


Weirdo!...

You know...real, painful climbing was the part of MTB'ing I never really liked. I guess coming from a dirt motorcycle background kind of spoiled that for me. However, the flowing singletrack and somewhat gnarly downhill was always worth the unappreciated climb. Porcupine Rim always comes to mind where the shorter climbs and pitches faded in memory due to all the Yee-Haw moments in between. Guys like Wade Simmons, Richie Schley, etc. were my heroes when I started riding MTB's in about '98. I never rode a hardtail because I never saw a hardtail dirt motorcycle...LOL!

The freeriding and gnarly singletrack was big back on mtbr when I joined, and longer travel bikes had just started being a more mainstream thing. Something that this ebike deal will allow me to do is continue to have that heavy, long travel MTB where I can live with the weight at my age.


RB, on that weight thing, it's quite amazing how that pretty much fades away on a good ebike. This is what shocked me when we got that Trek Rail 7 at the shop for a demo bike. Specs show 50 pounds or slightly over, but the second this thing starts rolling it just doesn't feel heavy at all. In fact I'd suggest that this actually aids in appreciated stability and traction as you speed up...much the way a dirt motorcycle does...even though you're pedaling. It was a surreal experience for a guy who rides both MTB's and dirt motorcycles to have a bicycle yield such awesome feedback.

Like you mention on your observation and speculation when you were loading up your mountain bike the other day and thinking about the weight of an ebike, I'll say this is about the only time you'll notice it. But let's be honest...if one can't lift a 50 pound ebike on to a bike rack or push it into the back of a pickup, maybe that person wouldn't be riding a mountain bike anyway...LOL! Another observation I've come across with these ebikes is how they feel when pedaling them off of their power source. When I put a bike together at the shop, obviously I take it for a test ride. Sometimes the battery on an ebike won't be charged, but I still need to tool around the parking lot to check brakes, gear adjustment, etc. I've been a little surprised how easy the bike is to pedal with all this dead weight. No...I don't want to do Porcupine Rim in that condition, but it doesn't appear to be a masochistic experience when necessary. Sure, I'm on asphalt when doing this, but I think I could still ride a bike like this out if the worst came to pass.

One other "power" element worth mentioning is the "walk beside" feature most of these bikes have. Even with a fairly low battery, there is usually the capability to let the bike run at walking speed with a button or trigger, so you're not pushing a wheelbarrow load of wet cement.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

TNC said:


> Weirdo!...
> 
> You know...real, painful climbing was the part of MTB'ing I never really liked. I guess coming from a dirt motorcycle background kind of spoiled that for me. However, the flowing singletrack and somewhat gnarly downhill was always worth the unappreciated climb. Porcupine Rim always comes to mind where the shorter climbs and pitches faded in memory due to all the Yee-Haw moments in between. Guys like Wade Simmons, Richie Schley, etc. were my heroes when I started riding MTB's in about '98. I never rode a hardtail because I never saw a hardtail dirt motorcycle...LOL!
> 
> ...


Weirdo? Hell yes. Most people fear being different. I fear being the same. Somewhere I said I was a type C personality. I piss off both A's and B's....

But moving on, your observation on not feeling the weight when you ride echo's many similar comments.

Ski season just ended (it never really ends because NJ has year round indoor skiing now and if world cup racers can train indoors, I can ski indoors). Ended in that my thoughts turn to bikes now. Yesterday and today were my first fairly technical rides after a couple days on my road bike and I got to thinking about the extra stability from a heavy e-bike and it makes sense. Hell, if the bike is going to weight more then an enduro but has pedal assist, why not go for a stupid long travel bike? I don't need to keep the bike under 30 lbs with an e-bike.

Back in the day when we used to head to Vermont to ride downhill on our XC bikes, I got to ride a real downhill bike and it wasn't that much different trying it out on level but technical trails. I didn't dare try to climb anything on it though. I'm not that weird.

Its all just another adventure that gives me an excuse to live longer and not stop playing.
REV


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

RB, you realize the "weirdo" comment was a "wink and a nod" joke...right?


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

TNC said:


> RB, you realize the "weirdo" comment was a "wink and a nod" joke...right?


Of course I did. I love humor.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Rev Bubba said:


> I've ridden the Bay area a few times and two things stand out. Damn, the hills are long. Two, where do they hide the rocks and roots? Given a chance, I might enjoy an e-bike for the climbs.


I think you would. Here in eastern NV every ride starts with a 1000-2000' climb and while there's no roots there's quite a few rocks. I do get a sadistic sort of endorphin charged satisfaction out of doing these climbs on my regular bike still, but doing them on the eBike certainly puts a smile on my face and allows me to do two climbs like that (and therefore two descents) in about the same amount of time.

The only time I've ridden an eBike on tighter, twisty, short steep ups and downs type trails resembling anything remotely close to what I imagine you ride in NJ, it felt awkward, the power delivery was a bit harder to modulate, and I felt the weight more. It was nice having the assist to get up that 100th short steep climb, but overall, I think I like my Fugitive more for that type of riding.

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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

KRob said:


> I think you would. Here in eastern NV every ride starts with a 1000-2000' climb and while there's no roots there's quite a few rocks. I do get a sadistic sort of endorphin charged satisfaction out of doing these climbs on my regular bike still, but doing them on the eBike certainly puts a smile on my face and allows me to do two climbs like that (and therefore two descents) in about the same amount of time.
> 
> The only time I've ridden an eBike on tighter, twisty, short steep ups and downs type trails resembling anything remotely close to what I imagine you ride in NJ, it felt awkward, the power delivery was a bit harder to modulate, and I felt the weight more. It was nice having the assist to get up that 100th short steep climb, but overall, I think I like my Fugitive more for that type of riding.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When I ride in the northeast, not just northwest NJ (which is totally different from central and south Jersey), my total climbing may hit 2000 feet on a longer day but never more then 500 feet on any one climb and usually less. As you stated, our trails are tight, rooty and rocky so a quick reacting bike works best IMHO. I've noticed on many of the newer purpose built trail systems like Kingdom Trails in Vermont and Alligripis in Pennsylvania, the builders have smoothed out the rough edges so you get more flow.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Rev Bubba said:


> When I ride in the northeast, not just northwest NJ (which is totally different from central and south Jersey), my total climbing may hit 2000 feet on a longer day but never more then 500 feet on any one climb and usually less. As you stated, our trails are tight, rooty and rocky so a quick reacting bike works best IMHO. I've noticed on many of the newer purpose built trail systems like Kingdom Trails in Vermont and Alligripis in Pennsylvania, the builders have smoothed out the rough edges so you get more flow.


Just an aside (not to derail the thread), but speaking of quick handling, great trail bikes, back in 2000-2001 when I was shopping for my first real, high end FS bike I came across the mtbr forum and found a post or two about the HH100x and had tons of questions and IIRC, you and Squeaky Wheel and a few others were instrumental in helping me get sorted and on on that superb bike. Thank you. So if I can be any help in guiding you in your future eBike purchase it would be at least a partial payback.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

KRob said:


> Just an aside (not to derail the thread), but speaking of quick handling, great trail bikes, back in 2000-2001 when I was shopping for my first real, high end FS bike I came across the mtbr forum and found a post or two about the HH100x and had tons of questions and IIRC, you and Squeaky Wheel and a few others were instrumental in helping me get sorted and on on that superb bike. Thank you. So if I can be any help in guiding you in your future eBike purchase it would be at least a partial payback.


Glad I could help.

Getting this thread back on track. I would have absolutely loved a long travel e-bike today. A little more technical and a little more climbing then the past few days and I felt it.

Still on topic, I emailed my buddy in Marin County who we are going to visit for a few days on the way to Hawaii and asked if he could find a shop the rented e-bikes. He has a 29" hardtail I can borrow but if I could get hold of an e-bike, that would be fun.


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

Rhythm Bikes in Oakland does / did rent e- bikes. I think there's a shop in Santa Cruz that rents e- bikes , might be a good excuse to ride down there.

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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

rangeriderdave said:


> Rhythm Bikes in Oakland does / did rent e- bikes. I think there's a shop in Santa Cruz that rents e- bikes , might be a good excuse to ride down there.
> 
> Sent from my LM-X220 using Tapatalk


Thanks.

I'll be in Novoto for four days so Santa Cruz is a haul taking California traffic in consideration. Last time I was in the area I rented a bike from Santa Cruz Bikes and hooked up with a local ride. My buddy lived in Los Gatos at that time and it was still a pain getting to Santa Cruz from there. Regardless, I do have a loaner bike if I don't find a rental I like.

After that it's three days in Pleasanton with family then off to Kona from SFO to see more family.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Rev Bubba said:


> I've never posted or even looked on the e-bike forum nor had an interest in e-bikes but maybe that will change someday so here I am.
> 
> I'll be 72 in two months and took delivery on a Santa Cruz Tallboy last October. I am not in the market for anything at the moment but I'm curious because I don't know what the future will bring and I'm always researching my next bike. My road bike is a Cannondale CAAD 12 Ultegra that weighs 16.7 lbs.
> 
> ...


I shall reply to myself....

I rode two e-bikes today. A Commencal and a Canyon. One was close to 50 lbs., the other around 42 lbs. Both were nicely equipped with more suspension then necessary for where we were riding. Being an e-bike, the extra weight of a Fox 38 didn't make much difference and the extra weight of the total bike, did make for a more secure ride.

What happened was I was passed a couple times by two guys on e-bikes. They were cool yelling "rider back" as the approached and asking if they could pass. I always appreciate manners on the trail. On one climb, they stopped and let me climb while they took a break from their decent.

Eventually, I overtook them (they were stopped) and we got into a conversation. It seems every e-Bike owner is anxious to let you try their rides and they were no different. I met them in the parking lot and climbed on the Canyon first. Holy, sh!t! It was nothing like what I expected, and, to be honest, I don't know what I expected. Certainly not the ease of pedaling I experienced. You people ride them so I don't have to explain the feeling. All I can say is I was impressed.

I'm not selling my Tallboy, which impressed them with how light it felt. I could move up my purchase of an e-bike somewhat but for now, for the first time, I am seriously considering one. I'm getting a little tired of being passed!


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Rev, you hit upon what many maybe most realize when they jump on a good ebike. I'm glad you enjoyed it. It is eye opening, and it's not the free lunch many think it is.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

I like having legs left for the fun parts, you know, the flatter, flow sections and downhill portions. I also like getting 2-3 extra laps if I’m riding a loop. Don’t much care if people pass me.


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## mercurial17 (Mar 16, 2021)

FWIW, the extra weight of the ebike is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's centered right at your bottom bracket, the perfect place to increase your stability and traction as you bomb downhill. Uphills are more fun for obvious reason. To the one fella concerned about transport, that's why you get a good hitch rack.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

mercurial17 said:


> FWIW, the extra weight of the ebike is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's centered right at your bottom bracket, the perfect place to increase your stability and traction as you bomb downhill. Uphills are more fun for obvious reason. To the one fella concerned about transport, that's why you get a good hitch rack.


Or a good roof rack.

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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

mercurial17 said:


> FWIW, the extra weight of the ebike is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's centered right at your bottom bracket, the perfect place to increase your stability and traction as you bomb downhill. Uphills are more fun for obvious reason. To the one fella concerned about transport, that's why you get a good hitch rack.


I was concerned about putting an e-bike on the roof but I drive a Forester and carry my mtb in the car. When going down the shore for a few weeks, my 16 lbs. road bike travels on the roof because the car is full of beach stuff.

I can see the advantage of the extra weight of an e-bike for stability.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

rod9301 said:


> Or a good roof rack.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


I'm for people transporting their bikes anyway they see fit, but I'd hate to put mine or most of these ebikes up on a roof rack...not so much for the weight on the roof rack, but the sheer effort of lifting that much weight. Two 25-pound MTB's weight about what one full suspension emtb weighs, so a good rack will probably take it.


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## BV2 (Mar 14, 2020)

RevBubba, Brustop in Novato has had a good inventory of ebikes. At least they did. I am fairly certain they do demo. Giant and Rocky Mountain


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

TNC said:


> I'm for people transporting their bikes anyway they see fit, but I'd hate to put mine or most of these ebikes up on a roof rack...not so much for the weight on the roof rack, but the sheer effort of lifting that much weight. Two 25-pound MTB's weight about what one full suspension emtb weighs, so a good rack will probably take it.


I'm joking. There is no way you can lift a52 lbs bike on a roof rack.

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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

BV2 said:


> RevBubba, Brustop in Novato has had a good inventory of ebikes. At least they did. I am fairly certain they do demo. Giant and Rocky Mountain


Thanks. I'm staying in Novato my first four nights in NorCal and the owner of Brustop is friends with the owner of the shop where I bought my last two Santa Cruz - Saucon Valley Bikes in PA.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

I got an ebike because I have bad knees and I could no longer keep up with other riders, a normal 12 mile loop would have me exhausted and hobbling for days after, with the ebike I can pull off 24 mile days and feel fine the next day, when I ride with friends or groups I leave it trail mode, when I’m by myself and want to rip I turn on Mtb mode. This bike is a game changer for me.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

I got an e bike because i can ride twice the downhill. 

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## TRP (Mar 21, 2021)

rod9301 said:


> I got an e bike because i can ride twice the downhill.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


I got back into mountain biking after a long hiatus. Like 20 years. Other interests and family were the culprits. I have ridden a handful of days at Whistler and NS in between. Now that I own an ebike I typically ride 30+ miles a week after work in my local spot. My downhill skills and skills in general are progressing a lot faster than they would on a normal bike.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

rod9301 said:


> I got an e bike because i can ride twice the downhill.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


I live 25 miles away from Mountain Creek. For the price of an e-bike over an analog bike, I could buy a season pass for the next ten years and have all the lift served downhill I could handle. For me, it is just making my regular 15 mile rides more comfortable, not longer.


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## Wooly Worm (Mar 15, 2015)

I don't quite understand waiting until you're older to get an ebike. They're for everyone. Pure fun. To me it's almost like saying "I'm going to wait until I'm 30 to get a suspension fork because my forearms can handle the work while I'm young and I'm gonna wait until I'm 35 to get a rear shock because until then my legs and knees are good enough shock absorbers. No, you get those things when you're any age because they help you have have loads more fun. Nobody looks at someone on a FS bike and says, eh, they must be lazy or weak or can't ride rigid anymore. Class 1 ebike is no different. I'm 48 and added an ebike to my stable and honestly I find that I now ride it almost exclusively. I started riding in 88 and frankly if I were 19 or 20 again I'd still buy an ebike to add to my bikes back then too... if I could have afforded it.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Wooly Worm said:


> I don't quite understand waiting until you're older to get an ebike. They're for everyone. Pure fun. To me it's almost like saying "I'm going to wait until I'm 30 to get a suspension fork because my forearms can handle the work while I'm young and I'm gonna wait until I'm 35 to get a rear shock because until then my legs and knees are good enough shock absorbers. No, you get those things when you're any age because they help you have have loads more fun. Nobody looks at someone on a FS bike and says, eh, they must be lazy or weak or can't ride rigid anymore. Class 1 ebike is no different. I'm 48 and added an ebike to my stable and honestly I find that I now ride it almost exclusively. I started riding in 88 and frankly if I were 19 or 20 again I'd still buy an ebike to add to my bikes back then too... if I could have afforded it.


"...if I could have afforded it." Ah, there's the rub. Trade my six month old Tallboy in on a ebike when I love my Tallboy or add another bike to my quiver? Since we downsized five years ago, I don't have the room to keep adding bikes nor the need.

An ebike may be no different then buying any bike but I am not about to go out in the immediate future and buy any bike. That was the point to what I wrote. After riding a couple eBikes, I am open to owning one.

Spending just because I can spend is not how I retired early and travel the world. Making a plan and sticking to it is. So, after riding a couple ebikes, my plan is to likely buy one when I buy my next bike, not before and, by waiting, the ebike I eventually buy will be lighter and less expensive.

Putting off gratification is more satisfying then instant gratification for me.

PS: I was riding dirt on a geared, fat tire, hardtail, bike in '58.


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## Wooly Worm (Mar 15, 2015)

Rev Bubba said:


> "...if I could have afforded it." Ah, there's the rub. Trade my six month old Tallboy in on a ebike when I love my Tallboy or add another bike to my quiver? Since we downsized five years ago, I don't have the room to keep adding bikes nor the need.
> 
> An ebike may be no different then buying any bike but I am not about to go out in the immediate future and buy any bike. That was the point to what I wrote. After riding a couple eBikes, I am open to owning one.
> 
> ...


I wasn't necesssarily speaking to your financial situation as much as the in general theme of "I'm xxx age, so I might consider an ebike". Not meant as a knock on the thread or you. They're great fun and I find it a shame that so many people have bought into the idea that they're for people who have some sort of inability and are, in some way settling. I only go back as far as 1987 because I was born in 1973. I had the misfortune of having parents who weren't outdoorsy people, they'd rather go to a museum. I finally convinced them to buy me a MTB at age 14 (Muddy Fox) and let me ride trails near our house on my own. I'm somewhat envious of the kids today with stryders and the amazing strides we've made getting people into the sport. You should tell Charlie Kelly your backstory. Maybe you already have? Maybe you even know him. There were quite a few doing the same thing as Charlie and Gary and the Mt Tam crew about the same time, but I've noticed he gets riled up over that stuff.  Gary Fisher is much more laid back. Whatever you end up with and whenever you end up with it, you'll love it! Cheers.


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## Wooly Worm (Mar 15, 2015)

PS, my one true love when I was 16 was a red 89 Yeti Ultimate ridden by an older local guy, he's now a local "legend". I wanted one of those so bad I couldn't stand it. Alas I was relegated to lesser bikes for many years until I got fast enough to pick up a factory ride with Merlin back when Merlin was Merlin. My Yeti lust never subsided. Wasn't quite instant gratification for me either. I didn't end up with my first Yeti until I was 40 and unfortunately John Parkers influence had faded a bit by then.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Wooly Worm said:


> I wasn't necesssarily speaking to your financial situation as much as the in general theme of "I'm xxx age, so I might consider an ebike". Not meant as a knock on the thread or you. They're great fun and I find it a shame that so many people have bought into the idea that they're for people who have some sort of inability and are, in some way settling. I only go back as far as 1987 because I was born in 1973. I had the misfortune of having parents who weren't outdoorsy people, they'd rather go to a museum. I finally convinced them to buy me a MTB at age 14 (Muddy Fox) and let me ride trails near our house on my own. I'm somewhat envious of the kids today with stryders and the amazing strides we've made getting people into the sport. You should tell Charlie Kelly your backstory. Maybe you already have? Maybe you even know him. There were quite a few doing the same thing as Charlie and Gary and the Mt Tam crew about the same time, but I've noticed he gets riled up over that stuff.  Gary Fisher is much more laid back. Whatever you end up with and whenever you end up with it, you'll love it! Cheers.


I met Gary Fisher a few years ago. Nice guy. I give California and/or Colorado credit for inventing mountain bike marketing. From what I've read, the French were riding off road in the 1800's and the US had an army unit using bikes during that same period. The truth is there were no paved roads when everyone started riding bike.

My father was a semi-pro athlete in the 1930's and made a nice living playing baseball (catcher), football (center) and boxing. He was very happy to see me do anything even closely athletic so having a bike from an early age was just normal and living in the country, riding dirt was what you did and having a Schwinn Jaguar with Strumy Archer three speed gears, wider tires and rim bikes was what you rode if you were really lucky. If not, you still rode dirt.

We weren't old enough to be allowed to ride on actual roads in those days.

I had a small write up in Mountain Bike Action a couple decades ago about our history. My story is more tongue in cheek. The term mountain biking just didn't exist back in the day.

I've had my granddaughter on a strider at three and her first two wheeler at four. She's five now and has been on skis for three years too. I had both my sons mountain biking at a very young age and both continue to ride and ski at 40 and 37. My oldest son who I frequently ride with thinks eBikes make sense too but he isn't set to buy one yet.

PS: Born in '49
PPS: Will probably ride 121 days this year just to beat the 120 I rode in 2020. That's in a seven month season. The other five are spent skiing.

It really is all about the fun and having fun keeps you healthy.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Wooly Worm said:


> I don't quite understand waiting until you're older to get an ebike. They're for everyone. Pure fun. To me it's almost like saying "I'm going to wait until I'm 30 to get a suspension fork because my forearms can handle the work while I'm young and I'm gonna wait until I'm 35 to get a rear shock because until then my legs and knees are good enough shock absorbers. No, you get those things when you're any age because they help you have have loads more fun. Nobody looks at someone on a FS bike and says, eh, they must be lazy or weak or can't ride rigid anymore. Class 1 ebike is no different. I'm 48 and added an ebike to my stable and honestly I find that I now ride it almost exclusively. I started riding in 88 and frankly if I were 19 or 20 again I'd still buy an ebike to add to my bikes back then too... if I could have afforded it.


I agree 100%. Ebikes aren't an age thing is a fun thing.


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## PS mtb (10 mo ago)

Rev Bubba said:


> I've never posted or even looked on the e-bike forum nor had an interest in e-bikes but maybe that will change someday so here I am.
> 
> I'll be 72 in two months and took delivery on a Santa Cruz Tallboy last October. I am not in the market for anything at the moment but I'm curious because I don't know what the future will bring and I'm always researching my next bike. My road bike is a Cannondale CAAD 12 Ultegra that weighs 16.7 lbs.
> 
> ...


Just FYI, they can be pretty light, but you pay up for it, my Orbea Rise Ltd is about 36 lbs


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

E-Biking is a ton of fun, it can get you from point A to point B in about 1/3'rd the time it would normally take. But you see the other fact of the matter is, when e-biking, you dont even consider or factor in anything that would detract you from riding in the past, like hills and total distance because e-biking you just dont have to worry about that.

Lets say on a bicycle you would normally think hard about riding 5 miles, on an ebike you dont think twice. The only thing that might make you pause is if there is a fresh layer of 7" or more of snow, because on an ebike even 4" of snow is meaningless, but 4" of snow on a normal bicycle you aint riding no non ebike.


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## ilostmypassword (Dec 9, 2006)

Stroganof said:


> At 72, obviously you want to avoid injury, and so you need to realize an e-bike is a different kettle of fish. Just gong up and down a fire road is no big deal, but an e-bike can also help you get into terrain that might bite back, so best to be mindful of that. At 61, my skills are pretty much intact, but not totally, so I try to dial it back a little. Since getting an e-bike I have been hitting some technical uphill trails and have discovered that while I am pretty dialed in to going uphill while pedaling, doing at 3x the speed does bring some challenges and negotiating uphill hairpins at 9mph is different than at 3mph, and takes some getting used to (much to my surprise). No big crashes yet, but not hard to imagine going down while having to much fun blasting into so sketchy tech section. Having watched a few friends get TBI's during relatively minor crashes, I am trying very hard to balance the fun with the risk - tho damn, it is hard to hold myself back sometimes. Just sayin.


Good insight. With my first ever eBike shipping in a few weeks and that I've not ridden off road for more than a decade- I to am wanting to balance the experience and minimise the risk of injury too. I'll start on fire roads first


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Wooly Worm said:


> I don't quite understand waiting until you're older to get an ebike. They're for everyone. Pure fun. To me it's almost like saying "I'm going to wait until I'm 30 to get a suspension fork because my forearms can handle the work while I'm young and I'm gonna wait until I'm 35 to get a rear shock because until then my legs and knees are good enough shock absorbers.





Wooly Worm said:


> *I find that I now ride it almost exclusively.*


That's the issue I'd have, I ride once or twice a week at best. But I also fly to places to go group rides multiple times per year, so I couldn't take an e-bike. So I need to keep on top of my fitness, so I either ride the e-bike more often (which isn't possible), or ride without assistance, or ride harder with assistance. 
I know without a doubt if I had an e-bike in the garage I'd be taking that every single time.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Mudguard said:


> I know without a doubt if I had an e-bike in the garage I'd be taking that every single time.


If you did take the ebike out every single time, I can't imagine any reason for doing so except that you like the ebike better.
Just think about it.
Meanwhile...
I have an ebike in my garage and I ride it often.
But not nearly as often as I ride my pedal bikes.
Pedal bikeS -- I have four.
One ebike.
Four pedal bikes.
This happens to be roughly the ratio of riding I do on these machines, too.
Probably about 4 to 1 pedal bike.
All I'm saying is this: ebikes are fun, yeah.
But they're not addictive.
Some people -- I'm one of them -- prefer pedaling a 100% human powered bicycle.
Does this mean I don't like ebiking?
No. It doesn't.
I like ebiking. It's fun.
But it hasn't taken over my life.
It's not like it's some kind of addiction.
Just ride your regular pedal bike whenever you want to.
It's possible to have a regular bike and an ebike without the fear that you'll never ride your regular bike again.
I mean... unless you're weak.
Just ride whatever you want to ride.
But don't think you can't have both as if one will make you hate the other.
=sParty


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## gus6464 (Feb 18, 2014)

Just turned 40 and got myself an ebike. Got the biggest travel beast that was available and within budget so went with the wfo e9. My local trail is a 5 min drive and it's fun because it has a lot of technical downhills but the thing I hated was going up so I could enjoy the down. It got to the point that I started riding less and less because I just dreaded riding the shitty part for 40 mins to get to the fun part.

I've had my ebike now for almost 2 weeks and have not ridden it 2 days. Now I can't wait for the afternoon to come and be done with work so I can go out and do the loop.

My only regret is that I shoulda bought the bike sooner.

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Sparticus said:


> If you did take the ebike out every single time, I can't imagine any reason for doing so except that you like the ebike better.
> Just think about it.


Of course, if I like it so much I don't ride my normal bike which means I'm stuffed for away trips (by plane, can't fly with battery).

My logic is more cost related. If I spend $10-$15k on it I'd want to make sure I got my money's worth. Its the same reason I haven't bought a CB650R, barely enough time for mountainbike rides let alone a motorbike.
And I've got a project car that's been at a panelbeater for nearly six months 😅


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Mudguard said:


> Of course, if I like it so much I don't ride my normal bike which means I'm stuffed for away trips (by plane, can't fly with battery).
> 
> My logic is more cost related. If I spend $10-$15k on it I'd want to make sure I got my money's worth. Its the same reason I haven't bought a CB650R, barely enough time for mountainbike rides let alone a motorbike.
> And I've got a project car that's been at a panelbeater for nearly six months 😅


I see what you're saying.
Makes sense.

All I'm saying is this: some people seem to blame the thing when their blame ought to be directed at their own free will.

Good luck with your project car and good two-wheeling to you, whether it's road, mountain, singlespeed, commuter, ebike, CB650R-ing or anything else.
=sParty

P.S. I'd love a CB650R, too. Whoa, what a machine!


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I see this thread is still alive. For what it's worth, I booked an eBike mtb tour on the Big Island, Hawaii in a couple weeks. The company uses Trance X-E so I'll get a chance to ride one in the wild. I did my first ride on dirt for 2022 yesterday and sure felt like an eBike would be nice, even after a couple days on my road bike. No plans yet but I do lust after a Santa Cruz Heckler every once in a while.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> Personally I wouldn't (and don't) consider an ebike a replacement for a real mountain bike. Ebiking and mountain biking are two different sports.
> 
> That said, I have both mountain bikes and an ebike. Just took delivery of the latter (Trek Rail 7) about 5 or 6 weeks ago. I also ride an off-road motorcycle. I bought an ebike because I'm experienced with two-wheeled contraptions that include artificial power and they're simply fun. Mine weighs 54# and I consider it light because my dirt bike weighs about 200# more than that.
> 
> ...


Spot on Sparty.

Edit: I thought this was a new thread and that it was still 2021. In fact as I read through it, I see I'd even posted on it. Ha ha. Must be getting old.

Hope you enjoy your time on the TranceX-E in Hawaii Rev. I think you will. Let us know how it goes.


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## andy_5772 (9 mo ago)

Great questions. I know a lot of folks who have been active riders and are now 'moving on' to electric assisted mountain bikes. The extra weight may take a little while to get used to. As for battery life, if you are still pedaling, you can expect a decent battery (14 AH or higher) to help you go 30-40 miles in most cases. See you on the trail!


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

andy_5772 said:


> Great questions. I know a lot of folks who have been active riders and are now 'moving on' to electric assisted mountain bikes. The extra weight may take a little while to get used to. As for battery life, if you are still pedaling, you can expect a decent battery (14 AH or higher) to help you go 30-40 miles in most cases. See you on the trail!


I'm still pedaling and climbing. I sometimes think moving to a lighter bike like a 24 - 26 lbs. Blur might make more sense than a 48 lbs. eBike. I think a lot of things that don't always make sense though.

I've been posting on MTBR almost since the start - 25 years? Anyone who has followed me knows I take a long time to decide on my next bike and, by past experience, know not to jump on any bandwagon too early.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Some people want to make their own tracks though and not ride what everyone else does.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

matt4x4 said:


> Some people want to make their own tracks though and not ride what everyone else does.


I've lived life thinking "most people are afraid to be different, I am afraid to be the same." It works for me.


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## fredman1085 (10 mo ago)

Rev Bubba said:


> I've never posted or even looked on the e-bike forum nor had an interest in e-bikes but maybe that will change someday so here I am.
> 
> I'll be 72 in two months and took delivery on a Santa Cruz Tallboy last October. I am not in the market for anything at the moment but I'm curious because I don't know what the future will bring and I'm always researching my next bike. My road bike is a Cannondale CAAD 12 Ultegra that weighs 16.7 lbs.
> 
> ...


I've just had my e-bike for around 6 weeks but I love it. My bike is 52 lbs (Trek Rail-7) and when moving, I don't notice it, but it is front heavy. I'm coming off a '97 Litespeed hardtail-26", so there's a big difference in handling and suspension. My Rail is long wheel based so tight switchbacks can be a problem as the turning radius just isn't short enough at times. 

I love the much better suspension but I love the 29" wheels...

As far as battery life goes, that really depends on what your power mode used mostly is and how hard you're riding. In Turbo mode (strongest), battery life is fairly limited but I mostly ride in Eco mode (lowest) and I can get 40+ miles per ride. My max so far is around 28. I have turned off the battery on rides and it's not great but it's not as bad as you'd think. I wouldn't want an extended or steep climb but if you run out, you can always walk the worst parts. Heck, I had to walk plenty of trails on my Litespeed as I got older, one reason why I got my Rail. That and I was sick of being left in the dust by my son on his Ibis Now I can ride in Eco mode next to him, get a workout but not kill myself and enjoy riding again.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I just returned from a 30 day trip to NorCal and Hawaii. While on the Big Island for two weeks I signed on to a mountain bike tour that featured Giant Trance-E bikes. That was my first real world experience on a better e-Bike and I was suitably impressed. I think I remember correctly that there were five power levels and even with the steepest climbs (Hawaii has some very steep climbs) I never used or needed more than level three and level one or two were usually enough. 

There were some issues created more by the difference between my SC Tallboy and the Trance but nothing I could say was caused by the e-Bike. 

In NorCal, it was old school hardtail riding at China Camp a few times. There I found a 29" hardtail perfect for the conditions. The climbs were longer but better laid out than what I ride in the east where a lot of our trail designs seem to go straight up the fall line. With proper switchbacks, the same 1000 foot of vertical was much easier. 

For the nine days in Oahu, I just hung around the beach and enjoyed the sure. 

Its going to take a few days to recover from last nights 9 hour flight home and a six hour time change. Damn, I'm getting too old for this stuff. No bikes of any kind for a few days.

Aloha


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## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

Stevirey said:


> I'm 69 and just finished an e-bike conversion. Bike is 2006 Banshee Scirocco, best hardtail  as per Old MTBR rating. It has resurrected (forgive me) mt. biking for myself. No way on earth you are passing me going uphill. Bike is not street legal.
> I haven't had this much fun on a bike in 25 years.
> The weight issue. Bike was never light at 35lbs....? It's 54lbs. now.
> Because I haven't been on trails in over 5 years, I can't really comment handling. It's no more of a handful than my first mt. bike, a 1993 Rockhoper.
> It's just tons of fun. Wish I had one of these years ago when I was commuting to


I have a 1992 mtn trek that I considered converting with one of the bafang motors and batteries. I haven't because the bike has rim brakes that are just not going to be enough for the terrain I ride.

I also looked at the 2010 spec FSR XC for conversion. However, given the size and geometry of the bottom bracket, the motor would have to hang down - Ok for a road bike, not for a mountain bike. Right now, I'm hunting for the right e bike that has a relatively low price and the kind of range I need.


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## Rusty762 (8 mo ago)

I am in my mid 50's and been riding/racing MTB's since the early 80's as well as BMX and hare scrambles on Moto bikes. I put off the EMTB for several years to let them get somewhat more sorted, I rented a bunch of different ones I live in Santa Cruz, California so lots of places to rent and take out on some incredible trails. Highly recommend at least renting one and experiencing what it's like. My first rental was a Santa Cruz Bullit and I loved it, rented a couple of others and then when Santa Cruz released the new Heckler I rented it and bought one a week later. I love that bike, I am still getting a great workout just riding 2-3 times the distance I was before and also exploring new places where I might have turned around on my Ibis Mojo HD 5. Its been 2.5 months now and I ride it every weekend. I never thought an EMTB could be this much fun, the only place I am still getting used to it is in the air but that's just a matter of time. On the really technical descents I prefer the weight of the E bike, its planted and being able to come into a steep uphill and time it so you power manual up and over obstacles is a lot of fun. Hope that helps and Enjoy the Ride!


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Because of where I live, after I ride six or seven miles, I’m doing the same loop over. Places in NJ with really long loops are down south where it’s just flat and Sandy. Nothing that requires a motor.

A couple weeks ago I did an eBike tour and it was a lot of fun and the climbs on the Big Island would justify an eBike but with land issues etc in Hawaii it’s not the mountain bike Mecca you might expect. FYI, the rental was a Giant Trance-E which was a decent bike.

Being a Santa Cruz and Bronson fan, I lean towards the Heckler too.


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## Tucker (Jun 28, 2005)

I’ve been injured off and on the past few years, and am turning 48 in a few weeks. My fitness has taken a big hit since my injuries and my mountain biking has been much lower key. I’ve gotten out but have been riding easier trails with less vertical, since I can’t climb easily anymore, without feeling like a truck hit me afterwards. And, of course, I find myself not doing rides I want to do because of the climbing involved. I’m now considering an e-bike, as I know it would help me get out again and enjoy riding again. 
A few questions: how in the hell do you all afford a decent bike??!! Is there financing like with a car? 
Is converting a mountain bike to electric super hard to do?
Are e-bikes noisy when going uphill?
Thanks all!


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Tucker said:


> I’ve been injured off and on the past few years, and am turning 48 in a few weeks. My fitness has taken a big hit since my injuries and my mountain biking has been much lower key. I’ve gotten out but have been riding easier trails with less vertical, since I can’t climb easily anymore, without feeling like a truck hit me afterwards. And, of course, I find myself not doing rides I want to do because of the climbing involved. I’m now considering an e-bike, as I know it would help me get out again and enjoy riding again.
> A few questions: how in the hell do you all afford a decent bike??!! Is there financing like with a car?
> Is converting a mountain bike to electric super hard to do?
> Are e-bikes noisy when going uphill?
> Thanks all!


All I can really answer is the eTrance I rode was not at all noisy climbing. Thinking back it seemed extra quiet.

As for affording one? You have me there because they are too expensive for me too.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Delete


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## SkiTalk'er (Jun 26, 2021)

Tucker said:


> Are e-bikes noisy when going uphill?


No louder than some of the louder hubs are going downhill.


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## Rusty762 (8 mo ago)

I read a lot of complaints about the Shimano Steps 8 motor and all the noise, I have not noticed anything and my Project 321 rear hub is louder than any motor noises. When I see hikers or horseback I just turn it off if I am riding past or for horses get off the bike and trail and let them pass. Most people don't know I am even on an ebike unless they are mountain bikers themselves and even then sometimes they don't recognize the larger frame of the Heckler.


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