# Trail Etiquette...or a lack thereof



## Visicypher (Aug 5, 2004)

In lil' ol' Boise, Idaho, we are having a problem with people who lack basic trail etiquette/courtesy. It is bad enough that land managers have asked the local MTB group to help with the problem before it becomes a BIG problem that will require them to provide a solution for the non-riding community. 

What have all of you done to change your bike culture? Does anyone have any ideas on how to change our culture of riding to one that instills the notion that a courteous, in control rider is a skilled rider?

Any ideas (short of cattle prods, tazers, and electroconvulsive therapy) are welcome.

Al


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## ryman (May 4, 2004)

you mean like what happened to me last night on Shanes, three guys all on cheapo bikes not yielding to uphill traffic and playing "chicken" with me until I HAD to move off the trail to let them pass

so whaddya do when people like these pass you....do you bark at them and tell them that uphill traffic has the right-o-way, tell them to stay on the F&%#ing singletrack, jam a piece of sagebrush in their spokes, mace


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## Visicypher (Aug 5, 2004)

that is the dilemna...developing effective, non-confrontational communication before situations like these ruin it for all of us.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Get IMBA rules of the trail hang tags that go with every mountain bike sold. If shops know whats good for 'em they'll do it. Nothing like trail closures to cause a collapse of mountain bike sales. With the decline in road bikes, that totals a problem for some shops.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

We have an email list that goes out about once a month to local bikers with various items of interest.

I've put things in it like 
"swinging bridge area is a walk zone, let’s try to lead by example".


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## ryman (May 4, 2004)

on a different note to my previous post...

While coming down Shanes last night I did make it point to get to the side of the trail for some uphill traffic and made sure that they knew they had the right of way. They said thanks and I replied with "you're welcome, uphill traffic has the right of way"


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## GregB406 (Dec 19, 2005)

*we have an opportunity*

At Lewis and Clark Caverns, we have volunteered to create a bike etiquette insert for the park brochure. We have also suggested a pair of signs at the tops of the two trails there.


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

If your trails are worth the continued privilege to ride, you may want to organize group rides, where trail etiquette can be discussed. If you're experiencing trail user conflicts, you may want to establish trail patrols, comprised of all trail user groups, to proactively enforce trail rules and to educate all trail users.

I've personally experienced that formal trail patrols will be able to reign in inconsiderate trail users more effectively than casual one-on-one encounters.

The key here is proactive. It sounds like you have problems now, so you need to address trail users on the trails before you experience more conflicts. Passive education, although valuable in most situations, will not be as effective in your present situation. Good luck.


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## Square Bladder (Mar 19, 2008)

Post Rules of the Trail prominently at trailheads. Resources permitting, set up tables at problem trailheads on weekends (also good for recruitment). Flyers on windshields.


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## sick4surf (Feb 4, 2004)

Etiquette info at the kiosks, in brochures, club websites and taught on guided rides are great low cost ways to spread the word.

We recently created a self guided beginners interpretive trail that has twelve sign stations. At each station you learn an environmentally friendly bike riding tip, a socially responsible trail etiquette tip and something about the local flora and fauna. It's based on the "rustlers loop interpretive trail".

You can also pick up a few of these decals from www.rockartsigns.com

They have other etiquette decals as well:


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

~martini~ said:


> Get IMBA rules of the trail hang tags that go with every mountain bike sold. If shops know whats good for 'em they'll do it. Nothing like trail closures to cause a collapse of mountain bike sales. With the decline in road bikes, that totals a problem for some shops.


I'm glad to know I'm not alone on this approach. I've advocated this for quite a while, Thank You!
# 1. The bike and component mfgrs should supply the necessary literature with every purchase.

# 2. The LBS is the only time a noob must come face to face with someone representing the bike industry. They should step up and review trail etiquette with them.

# 3. Online and mail order retailers should supply the necessary literature with every purchase.

# 4. Postings at every trail head.

But then again, I see stickys for bunny hopping, bike maintenance and dept.store bikes on the beginners corner but not a word about etiquette. (shame on MTBR & IMBA)

All of the above make money on mountain biking, they should be on the front line.


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## okay_player (Dec 19, 2004)

This may sound awfully Ned Flanders-ish of me, but I really enjoy yielding to other riders on tight singletrack.... provided I don't have to get off my bike. It's fun to give as much room as possible while slowing down/track-standing and trying to avoid dabs. Most riders are very appreciative and we wish each other well.

I have noticed a decline in groups indicating how many more riders are behind them... I can understand if you're gasping for breath, but there have been times when I've asked and still, no response. That's pretty much my only gripe.


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## JmZ (Jan 10, 2004)

Shelbak73 said:


> I'm glad to know I'm not alone on this approach. I've advocated this for quite a while, Thank You!
> # 1. The bike and component mfgrs should supply the necessary literature with every purchase.


Other option is the local club can provide this in conjunction with the local shops. Local donations/membership info in said packet to help offset the cost.



Shelbak73 said:


> # 2. The LBS is the only time a noob must come face to face with someone representing the bike industry. They should step up and review trail etiquette with them.


And they should make sure the local race scene is thriving, send their people to local trail maint, put out for demo days and food at trail days... The local shops DO get asked for a bunch of stuff already. We shouldn't forget that. We should make sure we're working with them and not just begging for them to do extra stuff.



Shelbak73 said:


> # 3. Online and mail order retailers should supply the necessary literature with every purchase.


In an ideal world - yup! But then they're bound to get someone complaining about killing the trees with extra paper in every order, and extra postage due to all that extra paper. Yeah I know it's reaching, but it takes all kinds, and if I'm already online - I SHOULD already know about IMBA... I'd rather that the online shops have a prominent link to IMBA on their home pages.



Shelbak73 said:


> # 4. Postings at every trail head.


Should be done, and up to the local bike club and parks depts.



Shelbak73 said:


> But then again, I see stickys for bunny hopping, bike maintenance and dept.store bikes on the beginners corner but not a word about etiquette. (shame on MTBR & IMBA)
> 
> All of the above make money on mountain biking, they should be on the front line.


*The beginner forum should have a sticky with something about trail ettiqute in there. I didn't see a moderator to email or PM...* but if someone writes up something good and can post it over there - it can be stickied. Some stuff does come down to local issues, but the basics are normally all the same.

JmZ


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

Hey jmZ thanks for responding.

I understand that many bike and component mfgrs contribute to IMBA and thats great, BUT they make far more than our local LBS and have a global reach.

IMO the more money a company makes from bikes and components the larger their responsibility, especially for literature at the point of purchase of their product. 
Sure the LBS should be involved, at the local level, but trail etiquette is world wide.

I recently purchased some new components, a Fox RP23 shock and a Thompson seat post. Both came with draw string, fabric bags. Both bags are worthless to me and I'm sure the money spent one bag is far more than one 8 1/2" x 11" sheet of paper.

I enjoy using trail etiquette, it shows self discipline, education, pride in ones craft and cultivates respect with other trail users.


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## eat_dirt (May 26, 2008)

i give up.

can't fight stupid.


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

With the increase of gas prices, the increase in the amount of cyclists on the street has been dramatic. You don't have to look very far ahead to see we will have a large influx of OHV users joining our ranks as gas prices continue to rise.
Who will teach them etiquette, and when?

_Time is of the essence._

Edit; I would like to add, there are two types of riders who don't use trail etiquette.
The uneducated. (_those who don't know about trail etiquette_)
The Entitled. (_those who know about trail etiquette, never practice it, but insist on it when it benifits them._)


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## gabrielle (Jan 2, 2005)

Shelbak73 said:


> # 1. The bike and component mfgrs should supply the necessary literature with every purchase.
> 
> # 2. The LBS is the only time a noob must come face to face with someone representing the bike industry. They should step up and review trail etiquette with them.


And with rentals, too.

gabrielle (you do *not* want to get me started on this topic.  )


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

gabrielle said:


> And with rentals, too.
> 
> gabrielle (you do *not* want to get me started on this topic.  )


*DOH!* Living in SALT LAKE CITY you think I'd........ 
You know, it just goes to show ya how a firm slap to the back of the head can improve a persons vision. Thanks Gabrielle


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## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

Ever watch Roller Derby???


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

mtb777 said:


> Ever watch Roller Derby???


Hell yeah! We have a roller derby league in Austin and often have one of the girls come help us with trail work. I direct you to The Hell Marys, only one of many teams.

D


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## Dave In Florida (Apr 4, 2007)

I don't think group rides, web site sticky's, etc are the answer. For those to work, cyclists would need to search them out and for them to know they exist. 

I think the answer is the hanging tags on new bikes. Also hopefully the LBS would point them out during the sale so they don't get thrown away like the other stuff that hangs on bikes in a shop :lol: 

I also think having a big sign at the trail head would also work. 

And the idea of mentioning it to other riders you encounter on the trail is great, but the problem is you never know if someone is going to get offended by bringing it up.


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## AlliKat (Apr 28, 2006)

Hey vis, did you talk through trail etiquette on the beginner ride the other day? I'm sure you did but this post got me thinking on how to tackle this with a coworker/beginner rider I get to influence now.

I've been riding our trails for a lot of years so I tend to be oblivious to signs... Seems like we have a few yield to uphill signs in places like top of hulls gulch. I wonder if something a couple hundred yards up prominent trails (Kestrel, Hulls, Reserve etc might catch peoples attention?)

I'm going to ask my coworker about is LBS experience in regards to talking about trails.


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## crager34 (Feb 23, 2005)

Visicypher said:


> that is the dilemna...developing effective, non-confrontational communication before situations like these ruin it for all of us.


Sometimes (alot of times) this doesn't work and confrontation is the only issue, or... wait for the trails to close. Get a camera, take pics of them, their cars, license plates and turn their butt in. Money talks, especially if it's theirs paying for their idocracy.


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

gabrielle said:


> And with rentals, too.
> 
> gabrielle (you do *not* want to get me started on this topic.  )


Oh Gabrielle, discouraging news. I Haunted a couple of shops that do very high volume rental business. Two in Park City and one in Salt Lake.
At one shop in Park City, after listening to three rentals (five bikes) I asked the salesperson if they would consider reviewing etiquette, and she informed me that they were listed on the back of the form, but to review the with the customer would be too time consuming. She was very nice and very polite.(no attitude) The same could not be said about the other two. The other shop in Park City I listened to three rentals (three bikes), and asked the same question, the salesperson merely raised his hand, as if to stop me, turned and walked away shaking his head. This shop wasn't as busy as the previous shop. The shop in Salt Lake was dead slow, but within five minutes a rental had come in, and in five minutes later had left with a bike. I asked the same question as I attempted to buy a chainring bolt tool I had been looking for, his exact response was "_Deep sigh_...oh man.... I don't have time for that stuf, is this ( the tool) all you need?" (Copious amount of attitude) I left without the tool, never to return. this shop was vacant of customers, with four employees.


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

Visicypher said:


> that is the dilemna...developing effective, non-confrontational communication before situations like these ruin it for all of us.


I've been riding mtb's for twentyfive years and I've never had an on trail etiquette advisory about skidding or avoiding obstacles where I thought the offending rider accepted the advise, no matter how friendly and diplomatic I was, but I would take solace in the fact that he/she had now at least heard of the "rule". That being said, I have had positive results when I demonstrate and point out proper right-of-way etiquette when it benefits them.
People don't like strangers dispensing unsolicited "negative" advice. (Dude, you're harshing my buzz !)


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## Spartacus Rex (Dec 18, 2006)

*I've noticed a decline in trail etiquette*

As our trails get more and more popular I am seeing a decline in trail ettiquete. I think one of my biggest complaints is "if you are not riding, get out of the trail". I dont mean this in regards to hikers. With every ride I see people stoped to talk to eachother, looking at maps or examining their bikes *In the Trail*. WTF? My rides at Alafia, FL seem like they are becoming a weave through people.

Other gripes are not yielding to uphill traffic, riding one-way trails the wrong way or not acknowgeding last rider in a group.


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

Spartacus Rex said:


> As our trails get more and more popular I am seeing a decline in trail ettiquete.


I honestly don't think it's a decline, IMO we have the same amount of idiots, percentage wise, it's just that there's more riders on the trail, plus the added distraction of Ipods, cel phones and so on.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Seems like this thread is permeating with gripes of downhill riders not yeilding to climbers. If this is the case then it doesn't seem as much of an issue versus mountain bikers coming into conflict with other user-groups.

The one influential factor you can have is to have a thriving ride schedule with ride leaders who will assertively communicate the ettiquette to riders in the group in a fun atmosphere.

Leading rides is a volunteer effort that can obviously be fun. And within this capacity a ride leader can have a profound impact in the tempo of the ride experience and can share a great deal of knowledge that goes beyond knowing how to get back to the trailhead.


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

Good point Skookum, and I hope this isn't lost on the readers of this thread.
Throughout my 25yrs of mountain biking I've seen many trails closed to mountain biking and the issue of contention with the majority of these has been right-of-way. Even our most recent challenge with a group out here, they said nothing about trail damage in their proposal. Their's was simply right-of-way and the lack of involvement of the FS in it's enforcement. I may be wrong but being that this isn't a "law" but a "rule of etiquette" (_until someone gets hurt_) It's up to us as a group to educate new riders about this _rule_ and enforce it. But being that it's not a law and there are no trail police (_yet_), there are many who simply have the childish attitude "there's no law against it. So I'll do as I want."
The challenge we have been saddled with is a formitable one. Changing peoples attitude from I and ME to US and WE and having the latter two mean all trail users not just bikers.


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## MTBKR-328 (Jul 11, 2008)

I am fairly new to trail riding and I actually wanted to check out this thread for some riding etiquette tips. I have had a couple of run ins with other riders on narrow trails and each time I have moved to the side of the trail to let them pass. Some people seem annoyed that I am on the trail but I try to be as curteous as possible and do what common sense tells me to do. I don't know if I get the dirty looks because I am a newb and stick out like a sore thumb or if I am doing something wrong. Has anyone found a good website I can check out for some tips?


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## Gilly86 (Feb 14, 2008)

If you are riding with other riders always let them know how many other riders are following as far as who has the right to pass I always just try to use my better judgement. But there are always the guys who think they are hard asses and think they cant give a friendly knod.


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## AlliKat (Apr 28, 2006)

MTBKR-328 said:


> I am fairly new to trail riding and I actually wanted to check out this thread for some riding etiquette tips. I have had a couple of run ins with other riders on narrow trails and each time I have moved to the side of the trail to let them pass. Some people seem annoyed that I am on the trail but I try to be as curteous as possible and do what common sense tells me to do. I don't know if I get the dirty looks because I am a newb and stick out like a sore thumb or if I am doing something wrong. Has anyone found a good website I can check out for some tips?


http://www.imba.com/about/trail_rules.html

Please pass this on to your friends.

From what you describe; are you stopping and putting a foot down or just riding on the side of the trail? To truly yield, you should stop and put a foot down. Over time, you'll get a feel for when people have passed you while you ride uphill and they slow and move over where it is okay. This would only be on wide trails. Otherwise, full stop; foot on the ground.


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