# priced out of the sport.



## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

About a year and a half ago I bought a cannondale scalpel for 3200. Expensive upgrade well worth the cost... So I thought. A hundred dollars to fix this two hundred to fix that. My brakes crapped out today. No fixing them. Shimano xt or slx brakes on the 350 to 400 dollar neighborhood... I'm done. Officially priced out of this game.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

Gotta do your own wrenching! Your lbs is killing you!
Shimano SLX M675 Disc Brakes - Front & Rear Set | Disc Brakes | Merlin Cycles


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

What do you mean by your brakes crapped out?


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

Okay, good luck. By the way, not that it matters to you now that you have left the sport, but you can get a new pair of SLX brakes for $120 pretty regularly. Functional lower tier brakes or used can be had for less....You can spend as much or as little as you want to spend in the sport.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

OP, you're silly. Later. Try fishing.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Piston seals went bad and they seized. Avid elixir 5s. I have to get new adapters, rotors, calipers, and levers to switch to the highly reviewed shimanos. 

Price point was 350ish for xts and all required gear, that is doing my own wrenching.

And I do fish... My 20k boat doesn't require nearly the amount of maintenance my bicycle does.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Until that Merlin post, the cheapest I've found is 79.99 each on Jensen for slx. Do I just sit and wait until someone finally decides to put them on sale?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Yeah, boating is cheaper than riding a bike....oooook lol


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Put it on Craigslist and fill up the tank on yer bass boat for the rest of the summer.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

This thread is mostly dumb.


FWIW I have Hope and Avid brakes on whatever brackets are cheap. Oh and I have Hope, Avid and Hayes rotors all on different brand brakes. As long as its the same size it will work. Unless your rotors are thrashed you don't need to change them. Unless your calipers are a different mount you don't need to change the brackets.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

J Hartman said:


> Until that Merlin post, the cheapest I've found is 79.99 each on Jensen for slx. Do I just sit and wait until someone finally decides to put them on sale?


European websites are typically always cheaper then US based ones.

Merlin, Chain reaction, wiggle, are all UK based that I have used with good success.

Check the "where are the best deals" forum on this site as there are several threads on good priced XT and SLX brakes.

As for your need for new rotors an adaptors - Only if your old ones are worn out. I have one of my bikes with SLX calipers, magura adaptors, and either avid or hayes rotors(cant remember which)


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Both your front and rear brakes had the pistons seize at same time, or is it just one of them?

I haven't priced rebuild kits but check them out. If only one brake is bad, then ride with one brake until you can get Shimano on sale. Or get Shimano Deore, they are plenty good.

I bought Shimano Deore on Jenon last year for less than $60.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

The last seven bikes I've built all have SLX lever-hose-caliper assemblies and whatever bracket and rotor combinations I can score on Ebay for as cheap as possible. 
I get the front and rear SLX brakesets anywhere from 99 dollars to 130. 
I cringe when I hear people say they paid full retail for some part they didn't need RIGHT NOW.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I would not buy anything used off the OP. It appears he is very stingy on maintenance. Also appears that he treats his bike differently than his other possessions--I wonder if he takes his boat into a dealer or shop to get it fixed up too, or does he shop around first for better deals?


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

99 bucks for a rear cassette, regular 40 dollar brake bleeds, 70 dollar brake pads, hundred dollar tune ups, now stuck brakes. I do practically everything myself except for brakes and shock rebuilds. This bike is a year and a half old, with sub 1k miles. I don't ride that hard. I was not aware I could mix match brakes, rotors, and mounts. I understood they were proprietary with non interchangeable components. 

The front brake is working, but needs a bleed yet again. The rear is locked.

Way to assume im a poor person on maintaining my equipment. I thought this community was better than that.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

My XT brake pads run about $25- $28 for a pair. I don't do LBS tuneups.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Eff that, learn to work on your bike. $50 for a cassette, almost free brake bleeds, brake pads are less than $20 typically and take 2 minutes to install.


IF this bike has seen this much work at the LBS how did they not notice a problem before hand with the brakes? My Juicy5's off my old 08 Norco are still working fine on my HT. Bleed only when needed, fresh pads once a year maybe, true my own rotors if one gets tweeked. This is a pricy sport if you let it be, you can dramatically cut cost's by learning to do stuff yourself.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

J Hartman said:


> About a year and a half ago I bought a cannondale scalpel for 3200. Expensive upgrade well worth the cost... So I thought. A hundred dollars to fix this two hundred to fix that. My brakes crapped out today. No fixing them. Shimano xt or slx brakes on the 350 to 400 dollar neighborhood... I'm done. Officially priced out of this game.


There are Shimano XT brakes on sale everywhere for $200 or less. Shimano Deore brakes would probably suite you fine and they are even less expensive.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

dirtrider76 said:


> This thread is mostly dumb.
> 
> FWIW I have Hope and Avid brakes on whatever brackets are cheap. Oh and I have Hope, Avid and Hayes rotors all on different brand brakes. As long as its the same size it will work. Unless your rotors are thrashed you don't need to change them. *Unless your calipers are a different mount you don't need to change the brackets*.


Between Avid and Shimano you absolutely DO need different brackets, even if both are post mount. They're like $8/ea but it's an absolute must or you'll either get rubbing or improper pad alignment.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

I just received a "set, f/r" of XT brakes from Ribble for $122 delivered to my door here in CA. They had the cheaper pads. You can get them at Art's Cyclery here in the US for $99 a side with good pads. Get them at Arts because you can't warranty them in the US if they come from the UK. They have to be sent back.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

J Hartman said:


> 99 bucks for a rear cassette, regular 40 dollar brake bleeds, 70 dollar brake pads, hundred dollar tune ups, now stuck brakes. I do practically everything myself except for brakes and shock rebuilds. This bike is a year and a half old, with sub 1k miles. I don't ride that hard. I was not aware I could mix match brakes, rotors, and mounts. I understood they were proprietary with non interchangeable components.
> 
> The front brake is working, but needs a bleed yet again. The rear is locked.
> 
> Way to assume im a poor person on maintaining my equipment. I thought this community was better than that.


Holy hanna - $70 for pads??? Are you buying the Saudi Arabia versions that are made out of solid gold?

I will say this - if your pricing is legit, you are spending more on bicycle work than I ever did on my motocrosser. In maintenance on my mountain bikes, I bet I have spend $400 in the last two years, and most of that was due to tires getting knobs ripped off (2), and just buying tires for the heck of it to try different versions. 
Actual needed maintenance - probably $150.

By the way - brake wise, here you go.
Hayes V-Cut Rotor | 6-bolt | includes hardware | stainless (22.98 each for 180mm)
Shimano M675 SLX Disc Brake | Shimano (89.99 each )
Adapters, lets just say $15 each, and go high.

That's $256. Add $20 total for XT brakes. You can also find front and rears on eBay for $135 or less. Needing rotors is highly unlikely. I think people are way too ridiculous about thinking they need rotors as often as they do....


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

J Hartman said:


> 99 bucks for a rear cassette, regular 40 dollar brake bleeds, 70 dollar brake pads, hundred dollar tune ups, now stuck brakes. I do practically everything myself except for brakes and shock rebuilds. This bike is a year and a half old, with sub 1k miles. I don't ride that hard. I was not aware I could mix match brakes, rotors, and mounts. I understood they were proprietary with non interchangeable components.
> 
> The front brake is working, but needs a bleed yet again. The rear is locked.
> 
> Way to assume im a poor person on maintaining my equipment. I thought this community was better than that.


Avid brakes aren't that good to begin with.

Brake pads for my M785 XT brakes were 9 bucks a pair. I have a set of M775 XT brakes from 2010. Bled once in 5 years.

You can buy SLX cassettes for under 30 and XT for 40 bucks at any of the provided UK websites.

You can mix and match rotors and calipers.

Wherever you're shopping, you need to stop going there.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Stop whining. No one said mountain biking was cheap. And when you are too lazy to do your own work and let your LBS rip you off...well...you deserve it. Take up bug collecting or something. This biking thing is too much for you to handle evidently.


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## BCTJ (Aug 22, 2011)

I think you are getting majorly ripped off. The bike shop probably increases their prices when they see you walk through the door. I would recommend checking out the following website....Bikes, Cycling Clothing, Bike Parts & Cycling Gear: Bike Discounts & Deals from Nashbar. Nice bike deals there.


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## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't get it. You have a $20 K bass boat but a couple of hundred dollars for your 
bike after a year and a half is a big deal. What am I missing here?


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

... Am I coming off rude? Why all the hatred? Geez, maybe I'll be glad I quit riding. 

And to think fellow riders is what kept me riding the past 15 years. 

But bravo for flaming me instead of offering any helpful advice. Makes me feel wonderful.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Shark said:


> Yeah, boating is cheaper than riding a bike....oooook lol


I didn't say that. I said the maintenance is.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

dirtrider76 said:


> This thread is mostly dumb.
> 
> FWIW I have Hope and Avid brakes on whatever brackets are cheap. Oh and I have Hope, Avid and Hayes rotors all on different brand brakes. As long as its the same size it will work. Unless your rotors are thrashed you don't need to change them. Unless your calipers are a different mount you don't need to change the brackets.





Alias530 said:


> Between Avid and Shimano you absolutely DO need different brackets, even if both are post mount. They're like $8/ea but it's an absolute must or you'll either get rubbing or improper pad alignment.





Nubster said:


> Stop whining. No one said mountain biking was cheap. And when you are too lazy to do your own work and let your LBS rip you off...well...you deserve it. Take up bug collecting or something. This biking thing is too much for you to handle evidently.


So, one guys says use what I have. The other says I need the adapters???

Nub - I didn't think it would be. But I bought an expensive bike for reliability. Which I was wrong in thinking you get what you pay for. I hope you get your bike stolen based on that rude comment.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Haha...they can try if they wish. Hell...let someone steal one of my bikes. They are in my home so insurance will buy me a brand spanking new bike...if the dirtball can get past my dog or me and my shotgun.

Anyways...you do get what you pay for. You also get what you ask for. Work on your own stuff and you won't get ripped off then feel the need to cry about it on an internet forum and get all butt hurt when nobody feels bad for you.

And I hope your boat sinks.


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## c8stom (May 19, 2015)

...


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

J Hartman said:


> And I do fish... My 20k boat doesn't require nearly the amount of maintenance my bicycle does.


I'm pretty sure you spend more for gas on your 20k boat then if you would buy top of line mtb every year, but it's fine with me. It's up to you to set your priorities, but if you need to find excuse to drop mtb, which is fine for me if you do, find better one


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

J Hartman said:


> ... Am I coming off rude? Why all the hatred? Geez, maybe I'll be glad I quit riding.
> 
> And to think fellow riders is what kept me riding the past 15 years.
> 
> But bravo for flaming me instead of offering any helpful advice. Makes me feel wonderful.


Dude. There's tons of helpful advice in this thread. You're just so dainty you're missing it.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

J Hartman said:


> ... Am I coming off rude? Why all the hatred? Geez, maybe I'll be glad I quit riding.
> 
> And to think fellow riders is what kept me riding the past 15 years.
> 
> But bravo for flaming me instead of offering any helpful advice. Makes me feel wonderful.


I don't think you are coming off as rude. But it does sound like you are really upset and angry, and over reacting.

I have been upset from Avids in the past, too, and I switched brands. If you calm down and do some searching, like many of us have, we think it is pretty easy to find better brakes much cheaper than you have claimed.

Since you still have a working front brake, just ride with that and be easy on it.

You should also take the bike back to the shop where you bought it and ask for them to have avid warranty replace the rear brake. In the interim, maybe the shop has an avid mechanical, bb7, they can put on your bike.


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## c8stom (May 19, 2015)

If you had said my 'fishing hobby' instead of my 20k boat, you probably would have received less hostility. You have made a complaint about a relatively low cost and lead the reader to think you are very comfortable financially. I can understand why some people reacted but obviously I don't think some of the responses were called for.

Anyway, there is some good advice in the posts, particularly the one to check your warranty.

If you have any cycling mates, they may be able to help you. I always help my mates with their bikes. They just need to ask


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## TheGweed (Jan 30, 2010)

J Hartman said:


> 99 bucks for a rear cassette, regular 40 dollar brake bleeds, 70 dollar brake pads, hundred dollar tune ups, now stuck brakes. I do practically everything myself except for brakes and shock rebuilds. This bike is a year and a half old, with sub 1k miles. I don't ride that hard. I was not aware I could mix match brakes, rotors, and mounts. I understood they were proprietary with non interchangeable components.
> 
> The front brake is working, but needs a bleed yet again. The rear is locked.
> 
> Way to assume im a poor person on maintaining my equipment. I thought this community was better than that.


I don't get all of this...I have Avid Elixir 5's on my bike that is two years old...agree they are not the best brakes but I've only had to bleed them once. Had the pads replaced once, maybe twice on one at the shop...nowhere near 70 bucks. I ride the heck out of this bike. At least twice a week. I will be buying some Shimano brakes when these die, but they just haven't yet.

Maybe try another bike shop?


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

J Hartman said:


> ... Am I coming off rude? Why all the hatred? Geez, maybe I'll be glad I quit riding.
> 
> And to think fellow riders is what kept me riding the past 15 years.
> 
> But bravo for flaming me instead of offering any helpful advice. Makes me feel wonderful.


I think one dude's reply was rude and disrespectful. The rest, they're offering advices.

You got ripped off by your bike shop. Did you try another shop? There are tons of youtube videos. If you're mechanically inclined, you can do it. My bike shop never charged more than $20 in labor on my bike.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

If you have Avid brakes now, Shimano calipers will bolt straight up to the existing mounts and rotors. 
Only thing that won't work is if you're running Matchmakers on your handlebars.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Yeah, ditch your shop first of all.

Then, get it out of your head that you need only the highest levels of equipment. Buying XT level stuff is getting you very little actual performance gain over lower levels. If you feel that for whatever reason you require it, then expect to pay a premium on it, but if you're a regular everyday rider like most of us, you'll be fine with SLX/Zee/etc. 

And whatever you do, don't get sucked into buying those stupid overpriced "IceTech" rotors when doing your brakes. Same goes for a $100 cassettes. Also, don't over-maintain your bike. Yeah, I know some guys think they need to rebuild their forks every few months and their entire drivetrains every year, but very, very few people actually ride enough to need this.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

J Hartman said:


> Piston seals went bad and they seized. Avid elixir 5s. I have to get new adapters, rotors, calipers, and levers to switch to the highly reviewed shimanos.
> 
> Price point was 350ish for xts and all required gear, that is doing my own wrenching.
> 
> And I do fish... My 20k boat doesn't require nearly the amount of maintenance my bicycle does.


disrespectful post coming....

bragging about a 20K boat. whining about the cost of bike maintenance.

fail.

some of us here are scraping by not knowing how to pay rent, or the next meal....and still ride bikes. take your whining about bike parts on your 20k boat and shove off

ok actual answer. You said you don't ride hard, therefore in my opinion you don't need hydros. get a set of avid cable operated disc brakes and be done with expensive brakes and still be able to stop better than any rim brake ever could

cheap, work, last forever, almost zero maintenance, cables.

finally, some of your posts allude to quitting riding ? then you aren't a bike rider in the sense that most of us are bike riders. you are an out-of-towner. most of us here would never ever consider stopping riding it is in our blood and core belief system that one must ride in order to live.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Works just fine :thumbsup: That's on my cheap parts build bike. Juicy5's, Shimano brackets and a Hayes front rotor.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Nubster said:


> Haha...they can try if they wish. Hell...let someone steal one of my bikes. They are in my home so insurance will buy me a brand spanking new bike...if the dirtball can get past my dog or me and my shotgun.
> 
> Anyways...you do get what you pay for. You also get what you ask for. Work on your own stuff and you won't get ripped off then feel the need to cry about it on an internet forum and get all butt hurt when nobody feels bad for you.
> 
> And I hope your boat sinks.


Sank one awhile back. Jet boats can be dangerous!



primoz said:


> I'm pretty sure you spend more for gas on your 20k boat then if you would buy top of line mtb every year, but it's fine with me. It's up to you to set your priorities, but if you need to find excuse to drop mtb, which is fine for me if you do, find better one


Almost 15 dollars a weekend for gas. My bike is costing me about twenty bucks per ride right now figuring the money spent divided into the rides recorded on my strava.



Finch Platte said:


> Dude. There's tons of helpful advice in this thread. You're just so dainty you're missing it.


Dainty? I'm looking at all the advice. But some guys say I need things that others say I don't. What do I actually need to fix this problem?



c8stom said:


> If you had said my 'fishing hobby' instead of my 20k boat, you probably would have received less hostility. You have made a complaint about a relatively low cost and lead the reader to think you are very comfortable financially. I can understand why some people reacted but obviously I don't think some of the responses were called for.
> 
> Anyway, there is some good advice in the posts, particularly the one to check your warranty.
> 
> If you have any cycling mates, they may be able to help you. I always help my mates with their bikes. They just need to ask


Nope, I'm not rich. Father of two, wife, house, cars, with an average job. The boat is something enjoyed together as a family. So expenses are easier to absorb / reason. I find spending 400ish dollars on something I do for myself selfish. What would you do to fix the the brakes with something reliable? I like the idea of hydraulic. The one finger stopping. I'm just so fed up with avid I can't stand it. Which is why I was looking to replace both brakes not just the rear.



thegweed said:


> I don't get all of this...I have Avid Elixir 5's on my bike that is two years old...agree they are not the best brakes but I've only had to bleed them once. Had the pads replaced once, maybe twice on one at the shop...nowhere near 70 bucks. I ride the heck out of this bike. At least twice a week. I will be buying some Shimano brakes when these die, but they just haven't yet.
> 
> Maybe try another bike shop?


I'm just fed up with fixing things on such an expensive bike... Did I mention this is the SECOND set of avid brakes on this bike? I guess I'm afraid to work on the brakes because they seem so finiky. (First set was replaced under warranty, where the cable came into the caliper leaked and induced air into the line. Bike shop tried fixing this four times before replaced under warranty.) Another bike shop? I'm thinking online purchasing only. For some reason I'm getting over charged?



slapheadmofo said:


> Yeah, ditch your shop first of all.
> 
> Then, get it out of your head that you need only the highest levels of equipment. Buying XT level stuff is getting you very little actual performance gain over lower levels. If you feel that for whatever reason you require it, then expect to pay a premium on it, but if you're a regular everyday rider like most of us, you'll be fine with SLX/Zee/etc.
> 
> And whatever you do, don't get sucked into buying those stupid overpriced "IceTech" rotors when doing your brakes. Same goes for a $100 cassettes. Also, don't over-maintain your bike. Yeah, I know some guys think they need to rebuild their forks every few months and their entire drivetrains every year, but very, very few people actually ride enough to need this.


I'm not a weight weenie, or a "latest and greatest" kind of guy. I just want reliability. And the xt brakes have the highest reviews out of anywhere. I read consistent reviews of going years with zero maintenance (minus the pads) some out to five years before even a bleeding. I just want to ride my bike when I want to ride. Yesterday I drove an hour and a half to my destination to ride, bike worked fine when I loaded it. Get there and the thing wouldn't roll because the rear brake was seized.... Understand my frustrations at this point? All I want to do is go ride my dang bike without something breaking.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I fvcking negged you for being an entitled cvnt, go boat you dumb ass.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Thanks?


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

Bummer things got ugly here.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

LyNx said:


> I fvcking negged you for being an entitled cvnt, go boat you dumb ass.


:thumbsup: Thank you for your mountainbiking support. Much appreciated.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

127.0.0.1 said:


> disrespectful post coming....
> 
> bragging about a 20K boat. whining about the cost of bike maintenance.
> 
> ...


I did not "brag" about my boat. I made a simple statement that i have spent more on maintenance on my bike than my boat. I'm not a rider tho?


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

J Hartman said:


> :thumbsup: Thank you for your mountainbiking support. Much appreciated.


Lynx is very accommodating to every rider and skill level.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Hawg said:


> Bummer things got ugly here.


Agree, Too much negativity around this place. But thanks to those who offered advice.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

J Hartman said:


> I did not "brag" about my boat. I made a simple statement that i have spent more on maintenance on my bike than my boat. I'm not a rider tho?


not if you threaten to ragequit biking. nope. not like most if us.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

127.0.0.1 said:


> not if you threaten to ragequit biking. nope. not like most if us.


Yeah because no one here ever get frustrated when their bike doesn't work correctly.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Second set of brakes already, Go to ride, locked up... Awesome! Can't wait for the Hour and a half ride back home! Call the LBS on the way home... "hey man nothing $400.00 wont fix!"


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Just delete this thread please. apparently spending thousands on my bike for repairs and maintenance isn't something to complain about...


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

J Hartman said:


> Just delete this thread please. apparently spending thousands on my bike for repairs and maintenance isn't something to complain about...


Or better yet why don't you just leave. The thread will die if you stop but you keep posting. You said you were quitting mountain biking right? So are you or aren't you quitting?

And complaining doesn't get you far around here.


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## c8stom (May 19, 2015)

J Hartman said:


> Nope, I'm not rich. Father of two, wife, house, cars, with an average job. The boat is something enjoyed together as a family. So expenses are easier to absorb / reason. I find spending 400ish dollars on something I do for myself selfish. What would you do to fix the the brakes with something reliable? I like the idea of hydraulic. The one finger stopping. I'm just so fed up with avid I can't stand it.


The more I read, the more I am puzzled. You have a house, cars and boat but feel 'selfish' spending $400 replacing brakes which need to be replaced for safety reasons.


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## Bokchoicowboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Nice to see that things around MTBR are business as usual. In just about every thread if someone expresses a need for help, expresses any emotion of frustration, or makes any sort of statement that leads the other board users to believe the poster is not as bike savvy as they are the end result is the same: instant assh*le response.

Why don't you people grow up.

Not long ago I saw someone post they were having some sort of trouble with their tire and wheel. The OP had a post-count of 1 at that point, clearly registering seeking a solution for the problem they were having. The post made it clear this was someone new to bicycling, someone who had no experience or knowledge of how bikes work but was wise enough to seek help. What happened? Two pages of attacks and completely useless jokes. The moderators didn't even call anyone out for what they were doing (in fact, one of them tried to justify the actions as "good-natured joking around", which it was certainly nothing of the sort.)

All of it was completely uncalled for and made every single one of the board users making unhelpful or attacking posts look like juvenile jerks. Eventually helpful info was given to the OP. When the unhelpful posters were called out for what they did, by other board users who were sick of the crap, they just attempted to justify their actions, like criminals or children caught doing something they knew was wrong but refused to admit and accept responsibility.

I know many come here to have a good time, especially if that good time is at the expense of someone else. You are not having fun unless someone else is suffering. That is just wrong...that is a horrible thing to do, and it is not welcome. I can probably say that if it happens to you, when you become the target of ridicule for no reason, you would feel pretty bad and perhaps angry for what others are doing to you.

I know what I am saying will fall on deaf ears, that many of you are so jaded and juvenile that you will simply blow this off or even post a response to my post in the same juvenile assh*le manner. Which is too bad. You are the negative part of this board, the part that causes others to leave in disgust, the part that gives fodder and reason to those who are against our sport and our trail access, the part that exists on the 'net being brave and outspoken simply because you are safe behind your computer in anonymity. The majority of you would not do what you did here to the OP's face, would not act or talk like that in person.

You should be sharing the passion for mountain biking, giving your witness to other on how cool it is to ride. Not going out of your way to be the Internet D*ckwad.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Mookie said:


> Or better yet why don't you just leave. The thread will die if you stop but you keep posting. You said you were quitting mountain biking right? So are you or aren't you quitting?
> 
> And complaining doesn't get you far around here.





cjsb said:


> I don't think you are coming off as rude. But it does sound like you are really upset and angry, and over reacting.
> 
> I have been upset from Avids in the past, too, and I switched brands. If you calm down and do some searching, like many of us have, we think it is pretty easy to find better brakes much cheaper than you have claimed.
> 
> ...


Following this advice.

The front brake does work right now. So I will only replace the rear. My bike came factory with 160mm rear. What gains would be expected if i would change to 180mm? IS that even possible? Or do I need 160 because that is where the mounts are located?

Starting from nothing, what do i need to replace it?

Shimano Deore XT M785-B Disc Brake | Ice Tech | Shimano (rear - rotor size not mentioned? is that aspect universal)

Shimano SM-MA90 Disc Brake Adapter | Shimano (post mount F180/R160)

Shimano Disc Brake Bleed Funnel/Stopper Kit | Shimano

Shimano Hydraulic Mineral Oil 50ml

What are the barbs and olives for?
BH90 Olive and Barb | Shimano Disk Brake Parts

I guess my LBS is pricing me out. That's also frustrating. been a customer for quite some time. What else would I need to replace the rear brake?


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

olive and barbs are to connect brake lines 
like connecting any type of plumbing

>>>>you really should switch to cable operated avids. <<<<

so cheap, they never ever fail. all you do is replace pads
and lube cable. maybe tighten pads every 4th hard ride


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## Carton (Sep 15, 2014)

First of all, if mountain biking is causing this much grief: stop doing it. There are way too many truly stressful things in life to keep doing something that makes you miserable as a hobby.

I'd personally try to add a more consistent cardio workout than fishing (not that it's not a workout at times).

If you want to get back into MTB later, try a SS carbon-forked hard tail (somethng like a Niner EMD) with mech disk brakes. Or if you want something plusher, a fat bike. Or something else as low maintenance as possible. Also, in my experience "quality" does not mean lower maintenance expenses, be it bikes, cars, machinery, clothes, etc. Bust a tail-light in a Mercedes SLK or spill some coffee in your Armani silk/wool blazer and is a more expensive proposition than say, the same applied Chevy Impala or a Uniqlo Ultra-Light jacket. 

Also for future reference, I've used Deore brakes (under $100 for the set in a bunch of places) an they've been awesome (no bleeds in over a year). I've felt absolutely no need to upgrade. One finger, perfect modulation and bite point for my taste. Found some really cheap IceTech pads at a faraway LBS ($12 each) and bought four of them on the spot to keep as spares. (edit: And as has been said, your LBS stinks. Prices are out of whack and who's still selling Juicys? They are the worst rated brakes of the last 10 years.)

A friend of my dad lost a fortune on an seemingly legit deal and after years of killing himself to keep it somehow afloat his once successful company went under. Decades later he's back on his feet, working a more stable job for less money living in a smaller house and far, far happier. Ever since he's always stressed one thing: never let your possessions own you. Anything that you get more heartache (literally, in his case) than benefit out of you should get rid of ASAP.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

J Hartman said:


> About a year and a half ago I bought a cannondale scalpel for 3200. Expensive upgrade well worth the cost... So I thought. A hundred dollars to fix this two hundred to fix that. My brakes crapped out today. No fixing them. Shimano xt or slx brakes on the 350 to 400 dollar neighborhood... I'm done. Officially priced out of this game.





J Hartman said:


> 99 bucks for a rear cassette, regular 40 dollar brake bleeds, 70 dollar brake pads, hundred dollar tune ups, now stuck brakes. I do practically everything myself except for brakes and shock rebuilds. This bike is a year and a half old, with sub 1k miles. I don't ride that hard. I was not aware I could mix match brakes, rotors, and mounts. I understood they were proprietary with non interchangeable components.
> 
> The front brake is working, but needs a bleed yet again. The rear is locked.
> 
> Way to assume im a poor person on maintaining my equipment. I thought this community was better than that.


Dude, I read this all and I'm trying to be objective, but you are getting HOSED!
How many people need a new cassette in 1-1/2 yrs. (<1000mi.)? You would have to ride with sand in your chain to do that.
"Regular" $40 brake bleeds? "Regular" for many = once every 2 years, or never.
$100 tune-up? ...But you already did everything except brakes and shocks? The shop has you by the wallet.
Or did the tune-up include suspension service (in <1000mi.)? Sounds excessive/unnecessary.
You also seem overly focused on the Shimano brakes. Have you checked out any other ones? The Tektro Draco brakes are Shimano knock-offs and are getting pretty good reviews.

If your goal is to get some advice here to get priced back into the game, there is some really good advice here. Go for the BB7 brakes, the steel cassette, keep your shock and fork stanchions clean, get a new bike shop(!). Any modern bike will last a long time with no maintenance at all (I have several examples). If you do nothing more than keep your chain clean and oiled, and hose off your bike once a month it'll last until the frame breaks.

If your goal here is to quit mountain biking then you should probably follow through and delete your MTBR account while you're at it. None of this 1/2-way stuff.

-F


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

c8stom said:


> The more I read, the more I am puzzled. You have a house, cars and boat but feel 'selfish' spending $400 replacing brakes which need to be replaced for safety reasons.


All of those things cost money... I'm EXTREMELY limited on money, when those are all paid, there is little to nothing left. I spend a little money on trips to the river to spend time with my family, and practically EVERYTHING leftover goes to my bike. But for me to spend that kind of money at the drop of a hat on something for me, that doesn't help out my family in way, shape, or form, i find selfish.


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## Gallo (Nov 17, 2013)

Sheesh where is the love people 3200 dollar bike with 1k miles that does not work after an hour 1/2 drive with a 400 price tag to fix it. I would be pissed too.

Bottom line is from what I read a poor LBS. I bought a bike a year ago I broke some stuff mechanics fixed it no charge, spoke, out of true twice, bent rotor,severe shifting issue. Always with we found some other stuff. Sent off with a smile. I wrench allot of my own stuff in fact the majority with parts I get online. But my local LBS and I have many to choose from has always helped me out. And when I am in the area I stop by to say hello sometimes to ask for advice on my own repairs. In other words I have a relationship with theses guys over many years.

Besides my dropper post and recently US carbon wheels that I just could not resist for the price my new bike has cost zero and been in the shop four times. And I am not easy on it. 10 months and 2k of socal dirt, the mechanic likes to see my bike just for the "what did you f$%k up this time dude".and always the "at least I know you are riding this"

I feel your pain back away from the computer and the haters let it rest. figure out your next move fix and ride or fix and sell. After all you cannot sell a broken bike. And for god sakes if you can find another bike shop.

Good Luck


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

The rotor size change is covered by a different size bracket. You can go 180 if you wish it just requires the correct size adapter. Barb's and olives are for shortening the hose if needed. That's what seals the line back up where its been cut.

You need the rear brake, rotor if your changing size, bracket to fit correct size rotor. If you need to shorten the line you will need the olive/barb kit and bleed kit. I have never owned Shimano brakes but I would assume they come prebled so if you don't have to remove the hose no need to bleed.


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## TheGweed (Jan 30, 2010)

Fleas said:


> Dude, I read this all and I'm trying to be objective, but you are getting HOSED!
> How many people need a new cassette in 1-1/2 yrs. (<1000mi.)? You would have to ride with sand in your chain to do that.
> "Regular" $40 brake bleeds? "Regular" for many = once every 2 years, or never.
> $100 tune-up? ...But you already did everything except brakes and shocks? The shop has you by the wallet.
> ...


This is what I was saying on the other page. I have the same brakes as the OP and I've had to bleed the brakes once in 2 years. LBS replaced the pads once on one wheel and twice on another...I think they charged me like 25 bucks tops (including pads) all said and done.

I also think he's getting jobbed by the shop and maybe they don't even know what they are doing anyway. I suggested trying another shop and he doesn't want to?

I find it hard to believe that 2 years of hard riding with the same brakes as him and he's had to replace his twice? Something is not right here.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

With the amount of time you've invested into ranting, and then defending your ranting in this thread, you could have watched enough professional How-To videos on YouTube, found out what you need to fix your problems and how to do it yourself, shopped the Internet to learn that your LBS is positively ROBBING you, and mail-ordered parts that are 30-50% of what you're paying locally, then installed them yourself and be relieved of much heartache. 
I'm going to agree with the general sentiment here: your frustration comes off as petulant and elitist. I'm not saying ou are, that's just how it reads with no context or emotion with only words on a screen.
Mountain biking is not for the lazy, unless you are wealthy. Learn to do your own maintenance. I promise it's less complicated than you think.


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## Gallo (Nov 17, 2013)

J Hartman said:


> All of those things cost money... I'm EXTREMELY limited on money, when those are all paid, there is little to nothing left. I spend a little money on trips to the river to spend time with my family, and practically EVERYTHING leftover goes to my bike. But for me to spend that kind of money at the drop of a hat on something for me, that doesn't help out my family in way, shape, or form, i find selfish.


Good on you for commitment to your family that is the way it should be but you have to do something for yourself as well for sanity. If biking gives you that minus the unwarranted pain of the maintenance issues which I think are a bit mean, than fix it and keep on biking. Invest in a tool kit and save a ton of money fixing your own stuff.

If not find another hobby


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Mookie said:


> Or better yet why don't you just leave. The thread will die if you stop but you keep posting. You said you were quitting mountain biking right? So are you or aren't you quitting?
> 
> And complaining doesn't get you far around here.





cjsb said:


> I don't think you are coming off as rude. But it does sound like you are really upset and angry, and over reacting.
> 
> I have been upset from Avids in the past, too, and I switched brands. If you calm down and do some searching, like many of us have, we think it is pretty easy to find better brakes much cheaper than you have claimed.
> 
> ...





Carton said:


> First of all, if mountain biking is causing this much grief: stop doing it. There are way too many truly stressful things in life to keep doing something that makes you miserable as a hobby.
> 
> I'd personally try to add a more consistent cardio workout than fishing (not that it's not a workout at times).
> 
> ...


I truly love the ride, that's why i've been doing it for so long. But I guess I am having a hard time coping with spending all this extra money on a bike that i feel I stretched on in the first place. I feel that with the money I spent it should be more stress / hassle free. I enjoy riding to clear my thoughts and melt away stress. Hard to do that when It feels like something goes wrong everytime i ride that is going to cost about a hundred bucks.


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## c8stom (May 19, 2015)

J Hartman said:


> All of those things cost money... I'm EXTREMELY limited on money, when those are all paid, there is little to nothing left. I spend a little money on trips to the river to spend time with my family, and practically EVERYTHING leftover goes to my bike. But for me to spend that kind of money at the drop of a hat on something for me, that doesn't help out my family in way, shape, or form, i find selfish.


In that case, stick the bike in the garage for a few weeks, do some research and save up some money.

When you know what you want and have the funds, find yourself a decent bike shop and get your brakes fixed.

A tip: don't tell them you have cars, A house and a 20k boat coz they might think you are rich and will rip you off.


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

Don't buy from a LBS, learn how to correctly work on your own bikes, and biking becomes much cheaper_ and_ more reliable.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Gallo said:


> Sheesh where is the love people 3200 dollar bike with 1k miles that does not work after an hour 1/2 drive with a 400 price tag to fix it. I would be pissed too.
> 
> Bottom line is from what I read a poor LBS. I bought a bike a year ago I broke some stuff mechanics fixed it no charge, spoke, out of true twice, bent rotor,severe shifting issue. Always with we found some other stuff. Sent off with a smile. I wrench allot of my own stuff in fact the majority with parts I get online. But my local LBS and I have many to choose from has always helped me out. And when I am in the area I stop by to say hello sometimes to ask for advice on my own repairs. In other words I have a relationship with theses guys over many years.
> 
> ...


This guy gets it.

I honestly thought I had a good relationship with my LBS also. didn't realize i was getting hosed so badly. I'm definitely looking for someone else to deal with at this point. OR maybe not at all, getting a proper tool kit and ordering / learning online might be the best way to save my ride.

I NEED my ride. I'm just so frustrated with non working parts right now I cannot see straight.

I read the threads about wash your new bike once a month and keep your shocks clean and it will last forever. this is what i'm fighting. it's like i got a "lemon" bike and it has become extremely frustrating / consuming / expensive.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

J Hartman said:


> I truly love the ride, that's why i've been doing it for so long. But I guess I am having a hard time coping with spending all this extra money on a bike that i feel I stretched on in the first place. I feel that with the money I spent it should be more stress / hassle free. I enjoy riding to clear my thoughts and melt away stress. Hard to do that when It feels like something goes wrong everytime i ride that is going to cost about a hundred bucks.


It's entirely possible that you hit a rough patch in terms of breakdowns. You've been getting a lot of good advice and resources in this thread. I say take this info and get the bike in working order again, it may not cost as much as you think, particularly if you bring it to a different shop (if that's the way you want to go vs DIY). Give it another go and see what you think then.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

thegweed said:


> This is what I was saying on the other page. I have the same brakes as the OP and I've had to bleed the brakes once in 2 years. LBS replaced the pads once on one wheel and twice on another...I think they charged me like 25 bucks tops all said and done.
> 
> I also think he's getting jobbed by the shop and maybe they don't even know what they are doing anyway. I suggested trying another shop and he doesn't want to?
> 
> I find it hard to believe that 2 years of hard riding with the same brakes as him and he's had to replace his twice? Something is not right here.


I believe the shop doesn't know what they are doing especially now after some of these replies. I take my bike in for brake bleeds when my lever goes to "mush" and no longer has any stopping power at all. Always occuring on the rear brake. They replaced both front and rear under warranty, after 4 unsuccessful attempts, and now the same thing is happening again to the new set of rear brakes...

The cassette replacement happened because the "granny gear" bent during a shift under power. I take responsibility for that. But it added $100 bucks to the repair bill. Something like that, in which i have direct fault, i have no complaints. These other issues are not my fault / nor neglect. I oil my chain, grease the pivot points and keep the stanchions clean. I do my best to keep my ride in good condition.

The 100 dollar tune ups include suss service... ( or so they say )


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Sell the boat and buy bikes for the whole family! :smilewinkgrin:


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Cornfield said:


> Sell the boat and buy bikes for the whole family! :smilewinkgrin:


My children are really young... ( toddlers ) I cannot wait until my boy is old enough to go ride with me!!! but at two I don't think my boy would be interested. His attention span is too short. lol.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

J Hartman said:


> All of those things cost money... I'm EXTREMELY limited on money, when those are all paid, there is little to nothing left. I spend a little money on trips to the river to spend time with my family, and practically EVERYTHING leftover goes to my bike. But for me to spend that kind of money at the drop of a hat on something for me, that doesn't help out my family in way, shape, or form, i find selfish.


Seriously...buy these....

Shimano SLX BR-M675 Disc Brake > Components > Drivetrain, Brakes and Pedals > Brakes | Jenson USA

If you need to, by one at a time. Replace the rear, then the front. Use the rotors that are on your bike. They will work. I use XT brakes on Hope rotors and Hope brakes on Shimano rotors. Both brakes work just fine. And for the love of riding, ditch the LBS and work on your own sh!t.


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## OutLore (Aug 9, 2013)

I think what's required here is an order of rule 5, with a side of rule 11. Followed by rule 25 for desert.


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

J Hartman said:


> Piston seals went bad and they seized. Avid elixir 5s. I have to get new adapters, rotors, calipers, and levers to switch to the highly reviewed shimanos.
> 
> Price point was 350ish for xts and all required gear, that is doing my own wrenching.
> 
> And I do fish... My 20k boat doesn't require nearly the amount of maintenance my bicycle does.


I just replaced Avid Elixirs with Shimano XTs on my SS last week. Total cost: $127.
I will sell the Elixirs for $50 or so.

Net cost: $77.

So you're not being priced out. You're just not trying.


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## Zomby Woof (MCM700) (May 23, 2004)

Except for the initial cost of the bike, I've spent plenty more racing R/C cars through the years. Always upgrading, replacing broken parts, race entry fees, etc. After accessorizing my bike, it doesn't cost anything to ride, just a little gas to get to the trail. I haven't had any major repairs except one. I had to put a new swing arm on my 15 y.o. bike. And that wasn't too bad.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

cjsb said:


> Both your front and rear brakes had the pistons seize at same time, or is it just one of them?
> 
> I haven't priced rebuild kits but check them out. If only one brake is bad, then ride with one brake until you can get Shimano on sale. Or get Shimano Deore, they are plenty good.
> 
> I bought Shimano Deore on Jenon last year for less than $60.


I have never had to mess with either sets of Avids on my bikes, so I have no idea what's involved in fixing seized pistons, but I would think they could be fixed? Maybe with this:

Avid Elixir Caliper Piston Kit | Amazon.com: Outdoor Recreation


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

Agreed that your bike shop is ripping you off. I had both sets bled and new pads put on last week for about $50. Also wondering about all the other stuff you've replaced.

When my Avid brakes on my last bike crapped out, I replaced the rear w/ a BB7 for way less $$ than it would have cost to replace the seals and was happy with the performance.

Good luck!


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

what parts you buy and from where doesnt interest me at all, the cheap deals you can find yourself, and youtube is invaluable for learning.
We are a family of 4, with 11 bikes and 9 get ridden regularly, I just cant afford to be taking them to the LBS, so I learnt how to do the stuff myself.



J Hartman said:


> My children are really young... ( toddlers ) I cannot wait until my boy is old enough to go ride with me!!! but at two I don't think my boy would be interested. His attention span is too short. lol.


balance bikes, they'll never look back, 
and when they are old/big enough they step straight onto a normal bike with no training wheels as they already have the balance down pat


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

In the TL;DR category I decided to go to our classifieds and I found these for you: sram avid xo disc brakes new take offs - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories
$200 for a set of Avid X0

There are also at least 5 other sets of brakes for sale in there.

Sure parts are expensive but I have been mountain biking for a long time and the price of entry vs. the fun is better than any other sport. You don't have to pay for lift tickets, you don't pay for gas, you can usually do it in your neck of the woods where ever that is.

If you make the regular maintenance on a bike (replace chain after 1/8" growth, keep pivots clean, wipe seals and wipers on forks, grease and over haul bears once a year, true and tension your wheels every 6 months, etc.) you will be spending very little on a bike. If you are riding in the wet weather then the maintenance you need is much more frequent but still the same things. It sounds like your bike was either used or poorly maintained by your shop. I suggest getting a chain stretch tool, a container of grease, some misc specific tools and a avid bleed kit and going to work on your bike. Take apart the calipers and free the pistons, get some replacement parts if available (which they should be), and rebuild them and bleed them until they work exactly like you want. It'll only take a few bucks for the parts (https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...efault/files/techdocs/2012_avid_spc_rev_c.pdf) and fluid and the end result will be an intimate knowledge of your bike and its needs. Once you have that you will never be in the situation where an expenditure will be unforeseen or unexpected (baring of course an accident). Creaks will be easy to assess and fix. Your $$$/ride ratio will greatly decrease.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Wow, some of you guys are really coming across as ***** today.
Stuck in the office or something? Jeez...


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Cornfield said:


> I have never had to mess with either sets of Avids on my bikes, so I have no idea what's involved in fixing seized pistons, but I would think they could be fixed? Maybe with this:
> 
> Avid Elixir Caliper Piston Kit | Amazon.com: Outdoor Recreation


The rear brake needs replacing as is... I suppose taking it apart to see how it works and trying to fix it couldn't make it any worse. I'll crack it open tomorrow after work to see what i can find out.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

stop talking about hydros

cable operated avids will solve all brake issues and price issues and maintenance issues.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Wow, this thread escalated quickly..mostly by asshats who contribute nothing.

To the OP. I understand your frustration and you're right that a 3K bike that's not even that old shouldn't need that much work. So you're either a) got a bike with some lemon parts on it or b) getting screwed by your LBS into spending money on things you don't need and not fixing the real problems like the brakes or c) a combination of a and b.

Like others have mentioned already, find a better LBS and if your bike is still under warranty then get some new parts. If you don't want to deal with any of that, a good set of Shimano Deore/SLX/XT can be had for less than $150 for both front and rear. I bought a SLX F/R brake set from Ribble for like $110 shipped. You can keep your rotors and adaptors, so no need for new ones.


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## arphaxhad (Apr 17, 2008)

1. Sell all of your bike stuff
2. Purchase steel, rigid, single speed with cable actuated brakes
3. Enjoy mountain biking again
4. Spend excess cash on family/friends


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Too long... didn't read... Assume you're expecting more out of a message board... high expectations


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

127.0.0.1 said:


> stop talking about hydros
> 
> cable operated avids will solve all brake issues and price issues and maintenance issues.


I started with cables. Made the jump to hydros. Hydros > cable in every way but price. Once setup, hydros are just as dependable and maintenance free as cables. Only difference is that there's slightly more to maintaining them than cable. But all that's needed is a bleed once in a while. Cables still need adjusted from time to time and I find that they need it more often than hydros due to cable stretch. Bleed hydros once a year and unless you are DH'ing or ride thousands of miles...that's all you need. IME at least.


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## elcaro1101 (Sep 1, 2011)

slapheadmofo said:


> Wow, some of you guys are really coming across as ***** today.
> Stuck in the office or something? Jeez...


Caught the same bug you had last week in the /passion/ forum.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

127.0.0.1 said:


> stop talking about hydros


stop talking about avid, nightmare brand from hell. I had same experience as op but on a really expensive bike with avid xx-fronts were gone inside a month and rears i nursed for 3 months-stuck pistons from faulty design. Magura hope shimano anything but avid


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

I don't think the asshatness has been too bad in this thread. The OP was a little testy there for awhile and so folks followed suit. But its been mainly solid advice so far with some mildly tough love mixed in. But he seems to have changed his tone - its frustrating when the bike don't work. No big deal, it's all good. I think the OP is going to keep riding and that's a good thing. :thumbsup:


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

J Hartman said:


> Piston seals went bad and they seized. Avid elixir 5s. I have to get new adapters, rotors, calipers, and levers to switch to the highly reviewed shimanos.
> 
> Price point was 350ish for xts and all required gear, that is doing my own wrenching.
> 
> And I do fish... My 20k boat doesn't require nearly the amount of maintenance my bicycle does.


Wait, you should be able to replace the elixr pistons and seals. It's work, but Iremember it can be done.

You can use the rotors from your Avids with SLX or XT.

You'll be better of getting away from the Avid anyway. SRAM seems to have trouble making good brakes. The dredded turkey gooble to the total recall of their first road hydro brakes makes me think brakes are an after thought to them.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

natrat said:


> stop talking about avid, nightmare brand from hell. I had same experience as op but on a really expensive bike with avid xx-fronts were gone inside a month and rears i nursed for 3 months-stuck pistons from faulty design. Magura hope shimano anything but avid


The reason I sold the Avids off my Cannondale soon as I got it. I didn't even give them a chance to crap out on me. Of course Avids make great mech. brakes. But for hydros there's definitely a lot better options out there.


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## elcaro1101 (Sep 1, 2011)

^^ They are trying to lean the OP towards cable pulled avid brakes, BB-5 and BB-7.

If you are timid of maintenance on a fluid driven brake, then they are the way to go for sure.


OP, I recommend going SLX or XT brakes, get them from one of the UK distributors.

I would skip going to a 180mm rear disc, unless you are a clyde and are 250+, then it would be beneficial more of the time.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Mookie said:


> I don't think the asshatness has been too bad in this thread. The OP was a little testy there for awhile and so folks followed suit. But its been mainly solid advice so far with some mildly tough love mixed in. But he seems to have changed his tone - its frustrating when the bike don't work. No big deal, it's all good. I think the OP is going to keep riding and that's a good thing. :thumbsup:


I think I know how the OP feels. I have had this shifting problem that is not bad, but annoying. I wanted to chuck the entire drive train and switch to Shimano for my trusty grippies.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

natrat said:


> stop talking about avid, nightmare brand from hell. I had same experience as op but on a really expensive bike with avid xx-fronts were gone inside a month and rears i nursed for 3 months-stuck pistons from faulty design. Magura hope shimano anything but avid


BS that avid bb5 or bb7 suck

I rocked bikes with cable avids for years, not one problem on 5 different pairs on 5 bikes. none whatsoever, and these bikes were ridden hard and put away wet


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

So the best advice offered here is to find a new shop and start learning to work on your bike yourself, there are a couple things I didn't see mentioned I thought were worthwhile:

Use Google shopping search for any particular part you need. It will give you a good list of vendors to start with. You'll need to get to know each vendor so it's a learning process. If you think they look sketchy just do some research on the vendor. I use Amazon pretty frequently.

Buy some tools including a stand. It's a bummer but you have to spend money to save money here. Check out the tools forum for good ideas on starter tool sets and work setups.

Get to know everyone at your new shop by name. Make sure to be a patient and understanding customer. Tip them with good beer or wine if they take good care of you.

Good luck. I'm in the process of learning to do my own work and it's a long process. It's interesting and fun while sometimes frustrating. I have ordered the wrong part, ordered the right part then broke it and ordered another one, and I've gotten in over my head and taken it to the shop for them to clean up my mess. Also try not to get discouraged by people on the internet. "If the internet were a place, it would be filthy and intolerable."


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## Bokchoicowboy (Aug 7, 2007)

derekbob said:


> "If the internet were a place, it would be filthy and intolerable."


I agree. I will add to that by paraphrasing a famous movie quote:

"_MTBR.... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious._"


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

slapheadmofo said:


> Wow, some of you guys are really coming across as ***** today.
> Stuck in the office or something? Jeez...


No, I just an a$$ hat all of the time


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

OutLore said:


> I think what's required here is an order of rule 5, with a side of rule 11. Followed by rule 25 for desert.


It is illegal for mtb riders to quote "The Rules" with are for roadies and written by roadies.

You are unofficially banned for 4 weeks and have to buy beer for everyone on this thread.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

If you really think what you've spent constitutes too much money, ditch all that crap with hydraulic oil in it.

The majority of your bike cost and maintenance woes will disappear...


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

J Hartman said:


> The rear brake needs replacing as is... I suppose taking it apart to see how it works and trying to fix it couldn't make it any worse. I'll crack it open tomorrow after work to see what i can find out.


Understand you are messing with DOT5.1 fluid. It's a pain to work with and you have to be careful. Wear gloves....Don't get any of it on painted surfaces....Use alcohol to clean up.....


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

127.0.0.1 said:


> stop talking about hydros
> 
> cable operated avids will solve all brake issues and price issues and maintenance issues.


They just give you usability issues.

Cable actuated disks work in a minimalist sense, but suck balls 4 ways from Sunday in long descents and precise braking.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Avids use DOT brake fluid, which is corrosive, if youre gonna crack it open, take the necessary precautions


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

My god let this thread die. If the OP wants to say he is priced out of the sport so be it. Also if they think a boat (boat = *B*ust *O*ut *A*nother *T*housand) is less maintenance than a bicycle let them live in bizarro world.


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## owensjs (May 21, 2009)

There's no reason to spend extra money on higher priced parts if you're on a limited budget. Deore brakes are awesome for the cost. I have Deore hydro brakes on my mountain bike and BB7s on my commuter. Both are great brakes, but I prefer the Deores. They're every bit as simplistic and low-maintenance as the BB7s IMO. Same with drivetrain bits...go for Deore or SLX bits if you're on a budget. Sure, they won't be as light as XT or XTR, but you'll save cash on bits that are wear items to begin with.

A $100 tune up honestly isn't a rip off if it includes suspension service with it. A lot of shops will charge $100+ alone for just a fork service. These guys are spot on, though. You can save quite a bit of money in the long run by doing work yourself, especially since you have a family and want to keep things low budget. You said previously that you do a lot of work yourself already. Buying some Shimano brakes or cable pull disc brakes will be much easier for you to service at home (Shimanos are cake to bleed) and the money you would pay for brake bleeds will pay for the brakes in no time. Basic suspension service isn't that hard either if you're mechanically inclined.

I use Shimano brakes with Avid rotors and mounts...works fine.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

ziscwg said:


> You are unofficially banned for 4 weeks and have to buy beer for everyone on this thread.


I'll take a venti Mocha Frappuccino®, or two, please.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

ziscwg said:


> I think I know how the OP feels. I have had this shifting problem that is not bad, but annoying. I wanted to chuck the entire drive train and switch to Shimano for my trusty grippies.


Chuck the drivetrain? How about chucking the whole freaking bike? I've done that a few times out on the trail when I got frustrated enough. Judges gave me 3 10s for distance.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Bokchoicowboy said:


> I agree. I will add to that by paraphrasing a famous movie quote:
> 
> "_MTBR.... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious._"


Mos Eisley!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

elcaro1101 said:


> Caught the same bug you had last week in the /passion/ forum.


Oh - were you the guy posting hour-long POV epic vids of sidewalks?

Sorry, but they really do suck.


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## elcaro1101 (Sep 1, 2011)

I was not. I was just an observer of the thrashing of some kid's videos in a sub-forum that is supposed to be about positivity. I get the non-passion for the videos from the MTBR crowd, but he was just trying to share what they liked to do. 

*edit*
Doesn't make their response right in any way, but it's not the first time I've seen a forum meltdown. It was far from "epic".

*edit2*
In regards to this thread, it is in the General forum. A bit of flak for the initial stance of the OP is fair game. Seems like they have come around, so hopefully they get their brakes figured out. Elixir 5's, shoot me now.


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## c8stom (May 19, 2015)

ShinDiggity said:


> My god let this thread die. If the OP wants to say he is priced out of the sport so be it. Also if they think a boat (boat = *B*ust *O*ut *A*nother *T*housand) is less maintenance than a bicycle let them live in bizarro world.


Have to agree with this. Many remedies have been suggested and we've gone full circle at least a couple of times.

One thing to add though is, OP should review and tighten up his own financial management.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

J Hartman said:


> Second set of brakes already, Go to ride, locked up... Awesome! Can't wait for the Hour and a half ride back home! Call the LBS on the way home... "hey man nothing $400.00 wont fix!"


You need the brakes warranty replaced. Next thing you might try is a larger rear rotor as it is possible that you are using too much rear brake, which is a technique issue.

Personally, since this is your second set, I would either use Avid BB7 on the rear brake, or get Shimano. The BB7 might be better for you because if you are over-using the rear brake it might help you learn to lay off them (because they don't have the stopping power of hydraulics).


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

J Hartman said:


> Following this advice.
> 
> The front brake does work right now. So I will only replace the rear. My bike came factory with 160mm rear. What gains would be expected if i would change to 180mm? IS that even possible? Or do I need 160 because that is where the mounts are located?
> 
> ...


JensonUSa or Treefort Bikes should have evrything that you need for a new brake. Given the amount of money you have blown, if you want to do this budget-wise then get Shimano Deore for the rear and use your existing rotor. Since you might be hard on your brakes a larger rotor is a reasonable option, but I don't think you need icetech (I use ice tech on one of my bikes but that is just me).

You may need adapters going from vid to Shimano even with the same size rotor, you would only know by trial and error, unless others post picks showing otherwise.

When you buy a new brake it should come with the olive barb. I don't remember if Shimano includes the funnel? But you WILL need the funnel because you will have to cut the brake hose length to fit your bike frame AND it is a good idea to bleed it after you do this. This is very easy to do, there is a great thread in the Brake forum that shows step by step how to cut the shimano hose without bleeding. But I got perfect results by doing the bleed afterwards. Shimano is very easy to bleed. Anyway you need the olive and barb ato installe the brake once you have cut the hose to the right size.

Just do a google search for MTBR cutting shimano brake hose to fit. It is that easy. Doing the work yourself might help you calm down as well.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Finally, after going theough all of the pages, the bike shop apparently sux. If it were me, I would talk to a manager and demand a replacemnt brake, even if you have to settle for BB7, at least put the incremental cost to get you going on them. If that gets nowhere then contact Avid or SRAM and poltely wxplain all his and ask for even a refurbsihed warranty replacement.

The find another bike shop next time you need a shop. In the interim, learn how to install brakes and bleed them yourself

This is my last post here, the thread is exhausting....but if possible, try and remove the pads, get a 8 or 10mm box wrench and insert it over the metal post. The piston is behind the post. Press against that piston surface, being careful not to bend the metal post. Oh, but before you press, rotate the brake lever so that the bleed port at the lever faces up. Then open the port and rubber band a ppaper towl around the port to keep crap from getting sucked in. Now press that piston back witht he box wrench, you will pribably lose fluid but you mig be able to get the piston back into working function. It is worth a shot nd time for you to learn some of this stuff.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

cjsb said:


> I don't remember if Shimano includes the funnel?


Does not. Have to buy separately. Costs like $5. Also, might as well grab a liter of Shimano mineral oil while you're at it cause you'll need it.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Finch Platte said:


> Chuck the drivetrain? How about chucking the whole freaking bike? I've done that a few times out on the trail when I got frustrated enough. Judges gave me 3 10s for distance.


Been there, done that. Was really satisfying watching it cartwheel down an embankment bouncing off trees. It behaved much better after that.


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## c8stom (May 19, 2015)

006_007 said:


> Been there, done that. Was really satisfying watching it cartwheel down an embankment bouncing off trees. It behaved much better after that.


I have never been able to abuse my own possessions even in the craziest of rages. Much rather throw myself down the embankment that scratch up my bike.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

TLDR

but I get the impression that there is a lot of talk go Avid/ SRAM hydros sucking. I agree. I have worked in a shop where we sold a lot of bikes with Avid hydros, Elixer 5s and such. many of those bikes came back to the shop shortly after purchase and we would have to bleed the brakes again and again, replace pads and rotors, etc, all on our labor's dime. we would stand behind our product but we were constantly on the phone with SRAM demanding that they send us new parts and brakes that work. in the end DOT fluid-based brakes have not proven to me that they ever work well. Shimano's mineral oil systems seem to just work, as do cable actuated brakes, when tuned properly.

don't just crack open a set of Avid caliper, or any hydro system, unless you have the tools, materials, and parts to do it right. you will make a big, expensive mess of your bike.


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

Wow, I have Avid Elixir 5's on my Rip9 and up till I read this thread I had no idea what POS's they are. 3 years and I've needed the rear brake bled once (cost about $10 from my LBS around the corner) It takes 5 minutes to replace and adjust the brake pads and never have had them "seize up" or fail to work properly. The only complaint I have is that the brake pads are a little expensive. 

Did I get the only properly manufactured set of Avid brakes ever made?

Interestingly, a friend of mine who also runs "crappy" Avids had to unexpectedly bleed his brakes in the backcountry and was able to use some brake fluid out of a Chevy Suburban. He had brought his bike from sea level in Houston to the mountains above Durango and lost all braking power due to bubbles in the line. There was no mineral oil to be found so if he'd had other brakes he might have been SOL.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

you got lucky with the 50% of them that were made correctly.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

MtbRN said:


> Did I get the only properly manufactured set of Avid brakes ever made?


Yes. Yes, you did. You should probably donate those to a museum. They're insanely rare, yet still absolutely worthless. :lol:


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

I wish to say that anyone here who
has experience with bb5 or bb7 saying they suck doesn't know
how to set up brakes correctly

sorry, but true. cable avids set up correctly stop you extremely well. maybe
not the pinky finger ability of some hydros, but certainly two finger lockup anytime you want it

if not, set them up again, change housing or routing, adjust them.

the point i am making really is they are cheap and effective


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

This thread got people all fired up. 

My question is, "Is he still in or out?"


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

AshevilleMtBiker said:


> This thread got people all fired up.
> 
> My question is, "Is he still in or out?"


Good question, the OP hasn't checked in for quite awhile. Given his last couple posts I think he's in. He showed some passion for riding so I think he'll stick it out. He certainly got plenty of advice on how to get his bike up and running again.


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## Spec44 (Aug 17, 2013)

MtbRN said:


> Wow, I have Avid Elixir 5's on my Rip9 and up till I read this thread I had no idea what POS's they are. 3 years and I've needed the rear brake bled once (cost about $10 from my LBS around the corner) It takes 5 minutes to replace and adjust the brake pads and never have had them "seize up" or fail to work properly. The only complaint I have is that the brake pads are a little expensive.
> 
> Did I get the only properly manufactured set of Avid brakes ever made?
> 
> Interestingly, a friend of mine who also runs "crappy" Avids had to unexpectedly bleed his brakes in the backcountry and was able to use some brake fluid out of a Chevy Suburban. He had brought his bike from sea level in Houston to the mountains above Durango and lost all braking power due to bubbles in the line. There was no mineral oil to be found so if he'd had other brakes he might have been SOL.


Probably did get the only set. I picked my 6 month old bike (with Elixer 7 Trails I think) up from the shop yesterday after work. I had dropped it off Sunday right after unloading the bike from my truck at the trailhead and finding my brakes 50% engaged (front and rear). Rear was fully locked by the time I got to the shop. They r&r'd the fluid and bled them, and say if it happens again they will typically then work toward replacing the whole system under warranty.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

mack_turtle said:


> you got lucky with the 50% of them that were made correctly.


I musta got lucky, too. I've haven't even had to think about maintenance on my Elixirs since I bought my bike used in '12. Just bought another bike a few months ago and it has Elixirs that seem to work perfectly. One of my LBS guys even say he LOVES Avid brakes.

Haters gonna hate :ciappa:


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Me too. Previous bike had Juicy 7's, and current bike has Elixirs. Other than being noisey when wet, they work fine, stop good and have fair modulation. Pads are cheap and easy to change.

I really want Hope brakes, though.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Finch Platte said:


> Chuck the drivetrain? How about chucking the whole freaking bike? I've done that a few times out on the trail when I got frustrated enough. Judges gave me 3 10s for distance.


If I get rid of the bike, what will I put in bed with me at night??

My wife knows her place.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

MtbRN said:


> Wow, I have Avid Elixir 5's on my Rip9 and up till I read this thread I had no idea what POS's they are. 3 years and I've needed the rear brake bled once (cost about $10 from my LBS around the corner) It takes 5 minutes to replace and adjust the brake pads and never have had them "seize up" or fail to work properly. The only complaint I have is that the brake pads are a little expensive.
> 
> Did I get the only properly manufactured set of Avid brakes ever made?
> 
> Interestingly, a friend of mine who also runs "crappy" Avids had to unexpectedly bleed his brakes in the backcountry and was able to use some brake fluid out of a Chevy Suburban. He had brought his bike from sea level in Houston to the mountains above Durango and lost all braking power due to bubbles in the line. There was no mineral oil to be found so if he'd had other brakes he might have been SOL.


well, probably not.

If you take your brakes off the bike and hang them vertical for a few hrs tapping the caliper and hose intermittently, the air will rise to the lever. The bleed screw should be the highest point if possible. then, open the bleed screw just a bit. Push the pads apart just ever so slightly until fluid comes out of the bleed port. Then, close it back up and ride.

This is an emergency fix.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Car brake pads are sometimes cheaper? -_-


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

net wurker said:


> I really want Hope brakes, though.


Yes, yes you do.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

net wurker said:


> I really want Hope brakes, though.


Love mine. Just hate they use DOT fluid. I wish they used mineral. I even thought about selling them and getting another set of Shimano just so I have the same brakes to setup and maintain on both bikes.


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## homeslice (Jun 3, 2008)

It's called buying more than your means. You were never priced out because you purchased far beyond what you could afford. Half the price for a bike and some dough to tools and youtube videos could have worked out to your favor.

Lots of postings to one odvious answer.


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## homeslice (Jun 3, 2008)

mbmb65 said:


> OP, you're silly. Later. Try fishing.


............avoid fly fishing.


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## FX4 (Jun 12, 2012)

mbmb65 said:


> OP, you're silly. Later. Try fishing.


Try fishing? You think mountain biking is expensive? It does not hold a candle to fishing.


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## launchpad mcquack (Feb 28, 2014)

You're getting shafted OP. Stop all business with whatever local bike shop you're going to. Head over to Performance if there's one near you. Otherwise contact SRAM/Avid and tell them the issue you are having. They will direct you to a bike shop and they will remove and replace the brakes free of charge. Had the same thing happen to me with a leaky seatpost. Scumbag well-regarded LBS in Orange County, CA wanted to do a seal replacement and charge me $150 for it. Took it to Performance for 2nd opinion and they contacted SRAM and got me a replacement free of charge. Bike parts are warrantied for the most part unless it's a wear item (brake pads and tires) and you shouldn't be having to replace faulty stuff every couple of years.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Scale 970: Still on original OEM Deore level brakes and are working great with sintered pads. Original crank, BB, & Chainrings (might be due though). I'm on my 3rd XT Cassette though (previous two have broken the pins) but I got 1700ish miles out of each and they were used on both Spark and Scale. X-Fusion Slide fork has high 3000 miles on it and still strong (minus an abnormal issue). Stan's Arch EX w/ 3.30 hubs with about 4000 miles are still problem free...not bad I say.

I bought the Spark used and beat up but put a solid thousand miles on it and still going strong.

For how amazing MTB and cycling has made my life, I'll never be priced out.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

The moral to this story is twofold...

1) Don't trust or go back to your LBS if you keep having problems.
2) If you can't wrench, you shouldn't ride.

...SC


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

J Hartman said:


> About a year and a half ago I bought a cannondale scalpel for 3200. Expensive upgrade well worth the cost... So I thought. A hundred dollars to fix this two hundred to fix that. My brakes crapped out today. No fixing them. Shimano xt or slx brakes on the 350 to 400 dollar neighborhood... I'm done. Officially priced out of this game.


If it was well worth the cost, it's worth fixing. How on earth do both brakes fail simultaneously? Consider another shop to do your repairs, they should be able to do it for less than $350.

BTW ... Shimano M615 Deore Disc Brakeset | Hydraulic Brake | MTB


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

J Hartman said:


> 99 bucks for a rear cassette, regular 40 dollar brake bleeds, 70 dollar brake pads, hundred dollar tune ups, now stuck brakes. ...


You're paying WAY too much.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

I was going to just let the thread die because if all the negative rep I had recieved from it. Hop on the fb, and mtbr featured it. I ordered everything for XTs front and rear today. Youtube and wrenching here I come.


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## lacrossefreak17 (Apr 29, 2013)

Congrats hopefully they work for you. Just yesterday saw a guy who had a rotor that became misaligned during a ride and tore apart his entire rear break.. He rode off with only a front break downhill. I hope you find what you used to enjoy mountain biking.

3 years ago I bought a used bike for 300$, a Jamis Komodo. I have done 0 work to it for maintenance and it still performs great. A lot of what you pay for is performance, but if you want to keep that performance the upkeep will cost $. Obviously this may be an exception, but dont let it get you down!


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## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

127.0.0.1 said:


> I wish to say that anyone here who
> has experience with bb5 or bb7 saying they suck doesn't know
> how to set up brakes correctly
> 
> ...


I think they suck & I know how to properly set up any brake system you'd like. The design is inherently inferior compared to a system where all the caliper pistons are moving inward to grip & squeeze the rotor. BB5 & BB7 use only the outer piston to contact the rotor & subsequently push & bend the rotor into the other pad. This is simply not efficient use of energy.

OP -if you're considering cable actuated disc brakes, skip the Avids & take a look at TRP Spyke. They cost a bit more than BB7 but have the piston actuator arm designed such that it engaged both pads to squeeze the rotor in the same manner as a hydraulically actuated system. Take the time to learn about how the different systems of your bike work & you'll be able maintaint, diagnose & repair pretty much any problems you may encounter. A book about mountain bike maintenance is a good place to start & Lennard Zinn has written a good one you may want to check out. Good luck with your bike!


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

J Hartman said:


> 99 bucks for a rear cassette, regular 40 dollar brake bleeds, 70 dollar brake pads, hundred dollar tune ups, now stuck brakes. I do practically everything myself except for brakes and shock rebuilds. This bike is a year and a half old, with sub 1k miles. I don't ride that hard. I was not aware I could mix match brakes, rotors, and mounts. I understood they were proprietary with non interchangeable components.
> 
> The front brake is working, but needs a bleed yet again. The rear is locked.
> 
> Way to assume im a poor person on maintaining my equipment. I thought this community was better than that.


Whom ever said we were better then that?


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Last time I bought XT cassette it was 50-60 dollars. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## brncr6 (May 15, 2014)

J Hartman said:


> All of those things cost money... I'm EXTREMELY limited on money, when those are all paid, there is little to nothing left. I spend a little money on trips to the river to spend time with my family, and practically EVERYTHING leftover goes to my bike. But for me to spend that kind of money at the drop of a hat on something for me, that doesn't help out my family in way, shape, or form, i find selfish.


Spending 400$ on taking care of you bike makes you feel selfish? What did spending 3200$ on a new bike make you feel like?
Sure had to be selfish.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

zephxiii said:


> Last time I bought XT cassette it was 50-60 dollars.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


$47.99 a few days ago from Jenson, free shipping over $50.


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## Lotek (Jul 2, 2014)

J Hartman said:


> I was going to just let the thread die because if all the negative rep I had recieved from it. Hop on the fb, and mtbr featured it. I ordered everything for XTs front and rear today. Youtube and wrenching here I come.


I'd like to offer help in any way possible man. Private message me and I can try and make installing those brakes a little easier for you. I am astounded how this thread derailed and would like to help any way I can.

Cheers,

Scott


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

zephxiii said:


> Last time I bought XT cassette it was 50-60 dollars.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


that is not retail, but you can find them for that range.


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## red913 (Dec 27, 2007)

Ya you can go way you cheaper on bikes and parts. Especially if you buy used. Don't quit, just sell your bike and get something cheaper. You'll still have fun.


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## mtnbikewp (Oct 3, 2005)

J Hartman said:


> I was going to just let the thread die because if all the negative rep I had recieved from it. Hop on the fb, and mtbr featured it. I ordered everything for XTs front and rear today. Youtube and wrenching here I come.


Forums can be a tough. Keep at it and don't give up.

Your shop may have tried to fix the piston, if not often you can get them working again.
Push the pistons all the way in the caliper, this means as far as they will go in. Use a spacer or if need be a screwdriver. 
Put a spacer between the brake pads. Be sure it is tight. If it is not tight then shim it, using paper, business card etc. to take up the space.
Squeeze the brakes several times with moderate to hard force. 
Let them sit for a while and repeat.
Sometimes this will help free the piston from the seal.
Put the wheel back on the bike and try the brake.
If one is still stuck, with the wheel off, put something against the pad or piston that moves (flat head screwdriver works well) Hold it against the moving pad/piston and gently squeeze the brake in order to try to get the stuck piston to move.
If you can get the stuck piston to move then many times you can get it working again.

If you get it working you need to clean it as well. See some of the steps below on cleaning.

If you don't get it working with the above means then try the following:

Remove the pads and clean the area around the piston with soap and water. 
If possible very carefully using your brake lever move the piston just the very slightest out by squeezing the lever just a little bit. Be careful or you could push the piston out. 
Clean the area again.
Using a flat head screwdriver place it against the piston and push it back into the caliper. 
Do this on both pistons.
Repeat the process several times using brake fluid instead of soap and water now.
Often this will break the piston free and it will start working again.

I own a shop, raced and sponsored race teams for quite a while. These methods have often times worked well for me on pistons that are stuck.

Good luck


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## Stormf (Jan 24, 2009)

Contact Sram. They were replacing Avids recently. Whether they were Elixir or Juicy I'm not certain, but they may offer a solution as they're a very helpful company and would rather see you continue MTB than try fishing.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Truth is, OP doesn't want to mountain bike any more. For whatever reason(s). The cost of maintenance is simply an excuse. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Aren't you glad I didn't whip this out??


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## Stormf (Jan 24, 2009)

Hahaha.


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## c8stom (May 19, 2015)




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## OddTrickStar (Aug 22, 2014)

J, go hug your bike. If it makes you feel better, fix it and ride it. If it feels stiff and awkward, sell it because it's a bad relationship.

BTW, BB7s are great brakes. The simplicity is boss. The rotor flex just gives them a bit of a feel and adds to the modulation.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

geez people, read the thread, he posted (about 20 posts ago) that he has ordered an XT brake set, so stop with the sh!tty recommendations


cable operated brakes on a 3g bike, god help us......


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## cwakefld (May 13, 2014)

I make $25,000 a year and ride 3+ times a week. Priced out is more relative to how bad you want to ride, than it is on how much money you have to spend.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

cwakefld said:


> I make $25,000 a year and ride 3+ times a week. Priced out is more relative to how bad you want to ride, than it is on how much money you have to spend.


 This.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Gallo (Nov 17, 2013)

cmg71 said:


> geez people, read the thread, he posted (about 20 posts ago) that he has ordered an XT brake set, so stop with the sh!tty recommendations
> 
> cable operated brakes on a 3g bike, god help us......


yep


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

mbmb65 said:


> OP, you're silly. Later. Try fishing.


Or golf.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

J Hartman said:


> About a year and a half ago I bought a cannondale scalpel for 3200. Expensive upgrade well worth the cost... So I thought. A hundred dollars to fix this two hundred to fix that. My brakes crapped out today. No fixing them. Shimano xt or slx brakes on the 350 to 400 dollar neighborhood... I'm done. Officially priced out of this game.


Well you must be paying list price.. merlincycles has a new set of XT for $140.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

ARandomBiker said:


> With the amount of time you've invested into ranting, and then defending your ranting in this thread, you could have watched enough professional How-To videos on YouTube, found out what you need to fix your problems and how to do it yourself, shopped the Internet to learn that your LBS is positively ROBBING you, and mail-ordered parts that are 30-50% of what you're paying locally, then installed them yourself and be relieved of much heartache.
> I'm going to agree with the general sentiment here: your frustration comes off as petulant and elitist. I'm not saying ou are, that's just how it reads with no context or emotion with only words on a screen.
> Mountain biking is not for the lazy, unless you are wealthy. Learn to do your own maintenance. I promise it's less complicated than you think.


His shop isnt robbing him. That is simply the price of convenience. My neighbor rides a lot, at least 100 miles/week and he doesnt do any of his own work. He has no interest in learning anything about maintaining his bike, he just wants to ride. He also pays list price (minus team rider discount) for his bikes.

I did help him to change his cassette and he was blown away at how easy it was.

Me on the other hand ride about 30 miles/week but do everything including building wheels and fork/shock service. To me the work is part of the fun of the hobby.

He would rather go for a 2 hour ride rather than spend 2 hours re/building a wheel.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

J Hartman said:


> I truly love the ride, that's why i've been doing it for so long. But I guess I am having a hard time coping with spending all this extra money on a bike that i feel I stretched on in the first place. I feel that with the money I spent it should be more stress / hassle free. I enjoy riding to clear my thoughts and melt away stress. Hard to do that when It feels like something goes wrong everytime i ride that is going to cost about a hundred bucks.


avid brakes suck. When I had them I had tons of problems even though I bled them myself. They are tricky to get all the air out. I finally got them to the point where they worked well, but had already bought XTs and sold my avids for $100. The XTs ended up only costing about $50 extra after selling the avids.

The only thing I havent done successfully is pressing bottom brackets. Clean your drivetrain after every ride. I wipe the chain and lube it. That may be why your cassette died so fast. The cassette should last 3000+ miles.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

J Hartman said:


> I believe the shop doesn't know what they are doing especially now after some of these replies. I take my bike in for brake bleeds when my lever goes to "mush" and no longer has any stopping power at all. Always occuring on the rear brake. They replaced both front and rear under warranty, after 4 unsuccessful attempts, and now the same thing is happening again to the new set of rear brakes...
> 
> The cassette replacement happened because the "granny gear" bent during a shift under power. I take responsibility for that. But it added $100 bucks to the repair bill.


XT cassette is about $50, takes about 15 minutes to change.

Avid brakes suck. I spent a ton of time getting mine to work right. It is always air in the line. They are just very difficult to get the air out. If the mechanic just follows the instructions to bleed they wont get the air out (or maybe there is a leak).


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

J Hartman said:


> My children are really young... ( toddlers ) I cannot wait until my boy is old enough to go ride with me!!! but at two I don't think my boy would be interested. His attention span is too short. lol.


my son is 2.5 years old. He has been riding a balance bike since 1.5. He loves playing follow the leader going off curbs riding in the grass etc.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

goodmojo said:


> Well you must be paying list price.. merlincycles has a new set of XT for $140.


Seriously.

Laziness won't get you far in life, particularly when it comes to getting the most value for your dollar.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

matadorCE said:


> Wow, this thread escalated quickly..mostly by asshats who contribute nothing.
> 
> To the OP. I understand your frustration and you're right that a 3K bike that's not even that old shouldn't need that much work. So you're either a) got a bike with some lemon parts on it or b) getting screwed by your LBS into spending money on things you don't need and not fixing the real problems like the brakes or c) a combination of a and b.
> 
> Like others have mentioned already, find a better LBS and if your bike is still under warranty then get some new parts. If you don't want to deal with any of that, a good set of Shimano Deore/SLX/XT can be had for less than $150 for both front and rear. I bought a SLX F/R brake set from Ribble for like $110 shipped. You can keep your rotors and adaptors, so no need for new ones.


That is what happens when you come across as a drama queen.

If instead he had said

Maintenance is getting expensive. <listing out the issues> What suggestions do you have for saving money?

It would have gone a lot better.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

cjsb said:


> You need the brakes warranty replaced. Next thing you might try is a larger rear rotor as it is possible that you are using too much rear brake, which is a technique issue.
> 
> Personally, since this is your second set, I would either use Avid BB7 on the rear brake, or get Shimano. The BB7 might be better for you because if you are over-using the rear brake it might help you learn to lay off them (because they don't have the stopping power of hydraulics).


Agree get the brakes warranty replaced, then sell them as new take offs on craigslist. Use the $$ to by slx or XTs from merlincycles.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

goodmojo said:


> He would rather go for a 2 hour ride rather than spend 2 hours re/building a wheel.


I dont like working on my own bike, Id much rather ride too... but if I blow out a wheel, im down at least a week, or two weeks in summer, for a shop to rebuild it. I can wake up in the morning, build a wheel from scratch and be riding before lunch. Ive fixed ride-ending problems trail side for friends with a pocket tool; 10 minutes on the side of the trail beats walking back to the car and waiting a week for a tuneup.

Some guys must get way better LBS service than most of us. Id be dead in the water so much if I couldnt fix my own bike.

Im a professional high end car mechanic, and I pay for people to change the oil in my car, so I understand being lazy/not wanting to do it :lol: (its my day off, no way im working on MORE cars!). But with bikes, the option is learn to do it yourself, or be out a bike weeks at a time during prime riding season. I dont get how some riders can do that.


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## brncr6 (May 15, 2014)

I go to to my lbs for small things once in awhile and they have got to know me so I get pretty quick service. Take a 6 pack in every now and then helps also. But most everything I do myself.


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## booradley007 (Oct 20, 2015)

*shimano brakes*

Try exercising the pistons in and out to break them free. There are many o ring suppliers that will have square edge or quad o rings that will fit shimano You will need to buy buna-n (nitrile) o rings which are compatible with mineral oil. You cannot mix hydro disc parts that use dot brake fluids with shimano as the seals will swell bind or fail. Theoringstoredotcom is a good place to start.



J Hartman said:


> About a year and a half ago I bought a cannondale scalpel for 3200. Expensive upgrade well worth the cost... So I thought. A hundred dollars to fix this two hundred to fix that. My brakes crapped out today. No fixing them. Shimano xt or slx brakes on the 350 to 400 dollar neighborhood... I'm done. Officially priced out of this game.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

booradley007 said:


> Try exercising the pistons in and out to break them free. There are many o ring suppliers that will have square edge or quad o rings that will fit shimano You will need to buy buna-n (nitrile) o rings which are compatible with mineral oil. You cannot mix hydro disc parts that use dot brake fluids with shimano as the seals will swell bind or fail. Theoringstoredotcom is a good place to start.


And we almost had this thread dead from 4 months ago........


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## booradley007 (Oct 20, 2015)

*Say something useful for a change.*



006_007 said:


> And we almost had this thread dead from 4 months ago........


Well, they still make shimano brakes don't they? I also researched and found a suitable oil for shimano. Coastal hydraulic jack oil is a mineral based oil has the proper viscosity and temperature characteristics. Available at auto zone. Further research shows that it can also be used as 10w shock oil as can several other hydraulic jack oils.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

006_007 said:


> And we almost had this thread dead from 4 months ago........


lol. guy has one of the most helpful posts in the entire thread (as his first post ever, nonetheless! he signe dup to give this advice... haha!) and gets **** for reviving a dead thread. I LOVE the internet.


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## Bokchoicowboy (Aug 7, 2007)

TwoNin9r said:


> lol. guy has one of the most helpful posts in the entire thread (as his first post ever, nonetheless! he signe dup to give this advice... haha!) and gets **** for reviving a dead thread. I LOVE the internet.


This board sometimes is the epitome of the attitudes out on the 'net. Usually worse than the 'net average, in fact. A pure example of John Gabriel's Greater Internet D*ckwad Theory. If I ever start feeling good about my fellow man, all I have to do is peruse the threads on this board to remove such feelings. This place is for fun, I know...also to seek and provide help...but it just goes too far sometimes.









But what the heck, it's home....


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

booradley007 said:


> Well, they still make shimano brakes don't they? I also researched and found a suitable oil for shimano. Coastal hydraulic jack oil is a mineral based oil has the proper viscosity and temperature characteristics. Available at auto zone. Further research shows that it can also be used as 10w shock oil as can several other hydraulic jack oils.


See this sort of information would be WAY more useful in its own thread in the appropriate forums (brakes and or shocks), instead of buried in a vague thread about being priced outta the sport.........


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

006_007 said:


> See this sort of information would be WAY more useful in its own thread in the appropriate forums (brakes and or shocks), instead of buried in a vague thread about being priced outta the sport.........


Yes but it was useful none the less. One can only hope he continues to post forth his wisdom. God knows this place could use a kick in the ass in that department.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

Bokchoicowboy said:


> This board sometimes is the epitome of the attitudes out on the 'net. Usually worse than the 'net average, in fact. A pure example of John Gabriel's Greater Internet D*ckwad Theory. If I ever start feeling good about my fellow man, all I have to do is peruse the threads on this board to remove such feelings. This place is for fun, I know...also to seek and provide help...but it just goes too far sometimes.
> 
> View attachment 1023403
> 
> ...


Haha incredibly accurate post


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

dirtjunkie said:


> yes but it was useful none the less. One can only hope he continues to post forth his wisdom. God knows this place could use a kick in the ass in that department.











-f


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Thru YouTube....learn to wrench yourself. Buy online. You're not priced out of this sport....you just don't Google enough. Ditch your LBS...they apparently see $$$$ whenever you walk thru their doors....


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## Gallo (Nov 17, 2013)

TwoNin9r said:


> lol. guy has one of the most helpful posts in the entire thread (as his first post ever, nonetheless! he signe dup to give this advice... haha!) and gets **** for reviving a dead thread. I LOVE the internet.


Ok

Op had avid brakes that were the issue

He bought XT and never came back to the thread probably because he got flamed so hard and the bike is probably working now

I fail to see how to repair brakes of a different manufacturer for a member whom already abandoned said brakes and the thread and purchased new brakes more than three months ago is "good advice" or at this point helpful. A little late to the party no?

However the link to a oring supply house and detailed information for repairing is not bad information merely misplaced. So good or even very good information in the wrong place.


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## banditpowdercoat (Aug 13, 2015)

Gallo said:


> Ok
> 
> I fail to see how to repair brakes of a different manufacturer for a member whom already abandoned said brakes and the thread and purchased new brakes more than three months ago is "good advice" or at this point helpful. A little late to the party no?
> 
> However the link to a oring supply house and detailed information for repairing is not bad information merely misplaced. So good or even very good information in the wrong place.


But when someone uses the search function, they might find this new usefull information and not make a completely new thread where they get sh!t on for making a thread and not using the search function. Don't ya love the internets


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## booradley007 (Oct 20, 2015)

*small minds*

Well I'm sorry I offended the thread nazi police. There are many people such as myself who come to this site with questions and this particular thread comes up in a search. Regardless of whether the originator has moved on there are likely others viewing the boards with the same issue who will find it useful. The lament of the originator was that he could not get seals for his brakes. I commented on what type of seals to get and where to get them. Shimano hydraulic oil is ridiculously expensive and I researched and supplied a link for a proper inexpensive product. There were also posts on THIS thread telling him to mix dot 4 and mineral oil based components or to use food grade mineral oil which would have resulted in a BRAKE FAILURE OR REDUCED PERFORMANCE. So I fail to see where my suggestions are MISPLACED. I don't have time to curate the discussion boards. But since you all seem to have so much time to piss and moan about my posts then you have my permission to start a new thread or find and existing one that you deem appropriate and copy my post there. Oh, but I guess you are too busy trying to put people down to justify your own pathetic existence. KMFA losers.



Gallo said:


> Ok
> 
> Op had avid brakes that were the issue
> 
> ...


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

booradley007 said:


> Well I'm sorry I offended the thread nazi police. There are many people such as myself who come to this site with questions and this particular thread comes up in a search. Regardless of whether the originator has moved on there are likely others viewing the boards with the same issue who will find it useful. The lament of the originator was that he could not get seals for his brakes. I commented on what type of seals to get and where to get them. Shimano hydraulic oil is ridiculously expensive and I researched and supplied a link for a proper inexpensive product. There were also posts on THIS thread telling him to mix dot 4 and mineral oil based components or to use food grade mineral oil which would have resulted in a BRAKE FAILURE OR REDUCED PERFORMANCE. So I fail to see where my suggestions are MISPLACED. I don't have time to curate the discussion boards. But since you all seem to have so much time to piss and moan about my posts then you have my permission to start a new thread or find and existing one that you deem appropriate and copy my post there. Oh, but I guess you are too busy trying to put people down to justify your own pathetic existence. KMFA losers.


Out of curiosity, what led you to dig up this old thread? It would have been buried pretty deep, and I dont think you were looking at the topic of " priced out of the sport". Did you do a generic search regarding brake rebuild or failure problems and it came up?

And again, thanks for the tips on alternate oils/seals


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## booradley007 (Oct 20, 2015)

I just did a google search for xtr brake sticking or something close. A general internet search routinely brings up mtbr forum posts up to ten years old or older.


006_007 said:


> Out of curiosity, what led you to dig up this old thread? It would have been buried pretty deep, and I dont think you were looking at the topic of " priced out of the sport". Did you do a generic search regarding brake rebuild or failure problems and it came up?
> 
> And again, thanks for the tips on alternate oils/seals


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## Gallo (Nov 17, 2013)

booradley007 said:


> Well I'm sorry I offended the thread nazi police. There are many people such as myself who come to this site with questions and this particular thread comes up in a search. Regardless of whether the originator has moved on there are likely others viewing the boards with the same issue who will find it useful. The lament of the originator was that he could not get seals for his brakes. I commented on what type of seals to get and where to get them. Shimano hydraulic oil is ridiculously expensive and I researched and supplied a link for a proper inexpensive product. There were also posts on THIS thread telling him to mix dot 4 and mineral oil based components or to use food grade mineral oil which would have resulted in a BRAKE FAILURE OR REDUCED PERFORMANCE. So I fail to see where my suggestions are MISPLACED. I don't have time to curate the discussion boards. But since you all seem to have so much time to piss and moan about my posts then you have my permission to start a new thread or find and existing one that you deem appropriate and copy my post there. Oh, but I guess you are too busy trying to put people down to justify your own pathetic existence. KMFA losers.


Ok my small mind actually said your information was good or even very good and in the wrong place ie a dead thread. I still hold that opinion. That is constructive criticism where I come from. Your reaction indicates you take umbrage with my comments and or believe it not to be true. so be it. carry on


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## Smilely (Oct 14, 2011)

To the OP,

Hope things have been better with the bike and that you have been able to spend most of your time with it riding and now working on it.


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