# New guy, no knowledge, and an old bike



## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Alright, so I want to get into this. Mainly as just a way to keep active and enjoy doing it as well, but hey maybe if I really like it i'll make it a major hobby of mine. Any who I haven't ridden a bike in YEARS, and I am only 20 years old, so that can tell you how much time I've really spent riding in my life. Rather than buying a new bike, I was thinking of fixing up an old one my dad has had lying around the yard for a few years. It is a Mongoose MGX D50 I think (just reading stickers on it) Can anyone tell me anything about this bike? Also, major things I need to look out for when restoring something this old that has been sitting outside for 10 years +. It looks to be in decent shape in my eyes, there obvious things that need changing like rusted chain, the seat, the pedals, and the tires. What else should I look into? Should the brakes and gears still be good? I've noticed some rusting around the screws, but I think this is an aluminum frame, so I feel that if I remove and replace the screws, it should clean up just fine. Thanks for the assistance!


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

http://archive.mtbr.com/09/0EE984B1.php

I think that if you are going to want to get into the sport, this bike really isn't the way to go. Save your money and buy something used and ride the heck out of it. Even if you spend a couple of hundred on a used Craigslist bike, I think that you will be starting in a better position than fixing up an old bike like this one.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Also, if you post up your location, I am sure that people will scour your local Craigslist in search of a decent bike for you. Post that up, with an amount that you can spend, and welcome!!!


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## Pantaz (Apr 15, 2012)

I would hold off on any "restoration", but your local bike shop will probably do a lube and adjust for not much cash. Put some miles on it before spending any serious money.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Well I don't really want to go buy a bike before I really know if I am going to stick with this. I'd prefer to repair and use this bike if it won't cost me too much, and once I have exceeded the limitations of the bike, than I would like to buy a new bike. I was really into the idea of fixing it as well. I took some pictures so hopefully from those you guys can tell me what looks like is trash, and what is still good on the bike, and hopefully someone can give me a rough estimate of how much it will cost to fix?

I can't post the pictures yet, as I only have 7 posts, need 3 more. Will post once I get those.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

LBS = local bike store?


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Pictures:


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## zeppy (May 21, 2011)

TenSpeed said:


> Also, if you post up your location, I am sure that people will scour your local Craigslist in search of a decent bike for you. Post that up, with an amount that you can spend, and welcome!!!


To be honest, this is likely the best route here.

If you are not going to invest in something else, you could bring the bike into a bike shop to have the maintenance done. Alternately, you can pick up the parts either at the LBS when you go in or online (if you know what you are looking for). Pretty much any general bike maintenance you can find out how to do on the interwebs. Stuff like replacing a chain, lubing chains, and switching out tires are pretty basic.


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## Pantaz (Apr 15, 2012)

101Surge said:


> ...


Replace the chain. The only other thing that might be problematic is the rear shock. The rust pitting on the shaft may have ruined it beyond repair.

Find a good LBS (local bike shop) and have them look it over. A good shop should help you out, expecting that you will come back to them when you're ready to upgrade.

Alternatively, check Craigslist for cheap used bikes.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Alright. What about the gears?You can see they have some rust on them, will that be a problem?


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

If your going to try and restore that thing, I would def set a low buget and not go over it. You don't want to spend an arm and leg on that thing.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Sorry, and I mean no offence but it's just not worth it. It'll be throwing good money after bad. Right off the bat it looks like you'll need at least a chain, a new or used rear shock, front shock rebuild, and you say you need a saddle, pedals, and tires. The brake shoes are prolly toast, maybe the bb and headset too. If you go to true the wheels, you'll prolly break/strip some nipples just because it's been outside for years. Even if you shop around, do the work yourself, you'd just be better off time wise and $ wise spending a couple hundred and getting a different, better bike. The only enjoyment that bike would give me, is when I rolled it out to the curb for trash pick up. If you'd like to restore whatever bike you're gonna be riding, at least get one that'll be more trail worthy when your done. 
Whatever bike you decide to fix, I'm sure you will find many on here that'll be glad to help, althou that process is often more costly than you'd think. If your not concerned with disc brakes or full suspension, you'll find great deals. I'd bet you can find a department store bike like the one you have there in like new condition for less than it would cost to fix the one you have.
My .02

If you haven't been cycling for a while, you'll get worn out pretty quick, may be hurting after long rides but stick with it and you'll be amazed at how fast you improve.
Maybe join a club or find some of your buds that ride. Maybe rent a bike for your first few outing to see what kinda bike works for you, and see if you're gonna stick with it.

Welcome to the site and the sport.


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> Sorry, and I mean no offence but it's just not worth it. It'll be throwing good money after bad. Right off the bat it looks like you'll need at least a chain, a new or used rear shock, front shock rebuild, and you say you need a saddle, pedals, and tires. The brake shoes are prolly toast, maybe the bb and headset too. If you go to true the wheels, you'll prolly break/strip some nipples just because it's been outside for years. Even if you shop around, do the work yourself, you'd just be better off time wise and $ wise spending a couple hundred and getting a different, better bike. The only enjoyment that bike would give me, is when I rolled it out to the curb for trash pick up. If you'd like to restore whatever bike you're gonna be riding, at least get one that'll be more trail worthy when your done.
> Whatever bike you decide to fix, I'm sure you will find many on here that'll be glad to help, althou that process is often more costly than you'd think. If your not concerned with disc brakes or full suspension, you'll find great deals. I'd bet you can find a department store bike like the one you have there in like new condition for less than it would cost to fix the one you have.


I didn't want to say it, but listen to what theMeat is saying.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

I know where you're coming from on the "ride it to see if I like it" theory.

There's two schools of thought on this though. One, why spend the money on an entry level bike, that you won't like? And then lose that money, when you go to get a bike you WILL like.

There's also this to think about. You're going to dump at least a hundred dollars into that bike trying to get it trail worthy. It's going to be heavy, it won't shift all that great, it's probably not going to "fit" you, so it's going to be awkward while trying to navigate trails. You might spend that money, and not like riding, not because riding isn't your thing, but you did it on a bike that made it miserable.

All that being said, from my inexperienced (yet very experienced, because I just went through all of this on MY bike...) opinion, this is what you're going to need.

First thing you're going to have to do, is replace the chain. This will be at least $20. Get a good chain, the cheap one at Walmart will crap out on you when you need it, don't ask me how I know...










Doing that you'll have to replace the gears on the rear wheel. They wear the same, so switching one, will cause problems, if you don't switch the other. This cost me another $20. You won't be able to do this yourself, so if the mechanic at the LBS (Local Bike Shop) is as good as the one that helped me, it will be cheap, or free. Otherwise, it will be whatever they charge for that amount of work.

Likely your cables are rusted, provided you can get a good deal on replacements, you could get out of this for under $40. Price here also depends on if you can do it yourself, or you have the guy at the local shop do it. (Getting the derailers dialed in just right isn't something easy for the first timer, so it might be worth having this done at the shop as well.)

So, we're up to what, $80 at least?

Ok, so let's say your tires need replacing. The cheapest, not likely suited to the riding you'll be doing, tire out there is about $20. If you need two, we just went over the $100 mark.

Pedals are going to be at least $10.

Not sure what the seat looks like, but I'd recommend a replacement with Gel in it. You're going to have a sore butt, no matter how soft the seat is, but why make it worse with an old hard seat? So, add another $20...

So, we're at about $150 to "restore" the bike. This will make it ridable.

I'd go make friends with the LBS, and see if they have a loaner program.

Tell them what your situation is, and maybe they can help you out.

The guys near me, have a nice trail just a short ways from their front door. The guy who helped me out there, offered to let me try out a bike or two on one of their Wednesday evening rides. When I do buy my next bike, it will certainly be from these guys. They've been excellent to me, and they have certainly earned my business.

Hopefully you'll be set up right, and will be out enjoying a trail of your own soon.


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## colorado91 (Apr 18, 2012)

Really love all the insightful help people give on this forum.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

I would rather spend the money on a used bike, and go with the possibility of liking it. If you don't like it, list it on Craigslist, and walk away with almost, sometimes even more than you spent if you got a good deal.

What it will cost to fix that bike up to a ridable condition will be at least $150-$200 at the LBS I am guessing. At that point, you will have a bike that is not that great, and that you have dropped some cash into already. If you decide that you don't like it, you won't be able to get your money back out of it.

What is your location so that we can check out Craigslist for you and try to help you along?


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

*BRAND NEW bikes just like yours*

.

You can find pretty much the same bike, minus the Mongoose stickers here Walmart.com: NEXT Power X Men's 26" Mountain Bike: Bikes & Riding Toys , or with the stickers for a few $ more here Walmart.com: Mongoose 26" Men's XR-75 Mountain Bike: Bikes & Riding Toys .

But again I'd recommend a better bike and you can get a great deal used.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

So it looks like riding will run you at least $150 to $200. The guys can help you find a good Craigslist bike for that price. I saw someone recently found a steal for that price.

I'm in the panhandle. If you're anywhere near Destin, my LBS is great, and they have an extensive rental selection. You could always take one or two of them out for a ride.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

While I agree in principle with a lot of the advice on this thread, I think people are a little too down on this bike. The rust on the cogs is most likely transfer from the chain. BFD. If the ratcheting mechanism works, don't sweat it. Do the links in the chain move? If not, then yeah, you need to replace it. Otherwise, lube it and go.

Here's a chain if you need it. One of the nice things about 7-speed drivetrains is that the parts are cheap.
Amazon.com: SRAM PC 830 P-Link Bicycle Chain (8-Speed, Grey): Sports & Outdoors

I wouldn't want to take something like that off-road. So, swap the chain or not, lube everything, and ride it to your local used bike store or pawn shop. 

Seriously, though - the suspension designs on these bikes actually make them harder, not easier to ride on trails, threaded hubs often have durability problems off-road, and the bikes have near zero resale value. So whether they're worth anything or not really depends on whether you have a job for the bike to do or not. If the gears and brakes are functional, this is a bike that you can ride to school and around town and secure with the cheapest and lightest of locks. From the looks of it, there aren't any parts on it that are worth cannibalizing. If you've been paying for gas or parking or a bus pass and you're conservative about spending money on it, it can save you money.

If you kill anything major, toss the whole bike.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Themeat and Flying-Monkey absolutely nailed it. In order to get the bike into a condition where it would be "ridable" for more than a single time out the door you're looking at around $200. 

I think we can all appreciate not being sure if you're going to stick with riding for the long haul but we've seen people trying to save money by fixing a very broken bike a hundred times before and it rarely works out in the person's favor. Remember that if you buy a bike off of Craigslist then you can probably turn it around and sell it again if it's in the same condition as you bought it. 

Depending on your actual budget you might be able to get a new bike as well. Your location will help the CL pros find you a bike and your budget will help them find you bikes you can afford.


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## pcmark (Jul 10, 2010)

You would be amazed at the deals you can find on Craigslist for $300 or less. That would be my recommendation.


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## bob7 (Apr 18, 2012)

I came to this post first b/c it fits me perfectly. I am looking to get started in the sport to get active and dont want to waste the money on a bike I wont end up using. 

I have very little experience in cycling, so I feel I am a newb as well. but I did just attempt to "restore" an 80s department store mtb. I changed the cables, cleaned it up, been riding for a few days. I dont think it will last long on a real trail once I get to that point. lol

I have to say, from the looks of what you will need, its not worth it. most everyone above is correct and you should find a used bike on craigslist. even a used next from walmart for $50 is going to be a better deal imo. for what you are looking for.

good luck.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

True "Andrw" the cassette actually looks ok, and any bike is more fun to ride than none, but come on. It's one thing to have a clunker to ride around town till it dies, it's something else to take it onto trails, plus I'm afraid that "till it dies" time may have already arrived. That's not even considering how much fun you'd not be having with your hopefully new found hobby. Maybe as a carless way to get around, while hoping it has a round trip left in her. 
I get being frugal or holding on to stuff for whatever reason. Some of my bikes, and certainly one in particular, would be considered a clunker by some. But they are still good old bikes that can be trailed and/or beat on some.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

101Surge said:


> Alright, so I want to get into this. Mainly as just a way to keep active and enjoy doing it as well, but hey maybe if I really like it i'll make it a major hobby of mine. Any who I haven't ridden a bike in YEARS, and I am only 20 years old, so that can tell you how much time I've really spent riding in my life. Rather than buying a new bike, I was thinking of fixing up an old one my dad has had lying around the yard for a few years. It is a Mongoose MGX D50 I think (just reading stickers on it) Can anyone tell me anything about this bike? Also, major things I need to look out for when restoring something this old that has been sitting outside for 10 years +. It looks to be in decent shape in my eyes, there obvious things that need changing like rusted chain, the seat, the pedals, and the tires. What else should I look into? Should the brakes and gears still be good? I've noticed some rusting around the screws, but I think this is an aluminum frame, so I feel that if I remove and replace the screws, it should clean up just fine. Thanks for the assistance!


The good news is that you can't really do much harm. I suggest riding it and doing what you can to clean it, adjust it, and learn. There are some really good books on bike repair and tuning. Get some tools if you don't have them. Those you can use indefinitely.

The guys who have said that this bike is not worth spending money on are absolutely right. If you to ignore advice about buying parts for this bike, at least keep track of what you spend. It may surprise you. Don't be discouraged, just don't invest too much in it.

It can be a starting point for you, just save your money for a better investment.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

I think an equine that has expired is being physically accosted here...

By the lack of the OP's continued participation in this thread, while posting in others, would indicate the answer he wanted was not the one he got.

I understand the 20, college, and broke situation. I remember putting more money into fixing something that was sub par to begin with, instead of dropping a lump sum on something of quality.

It does beg the question, how much bike does one really need? You see everything from a $50 used box store to the multi thousand dollar mechanical porn being discussed.

I'm left pondering how to figure far enough in advance what my goals would be, in contrast to what I'm willing to spend now, and what calculation would get me to that perfect bike, for me or anyone looking for their first real ride.


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## Seabrooks (Apr 18, 2012)

I'm an old fart that rode a bit BS ( before suspension), but hadn't been on one for years. I bought a very similar bike six or eight years ago from ****mart hoping to "get back into riding". After just a couple hundred miserable miles, I decided I'm just too old, or this isn't for me, so I gave it away. After recently riding a couple of "real" bikes and actually enjoying it again, I resurrected an old non suspension bike and I've been having a blast on light trails, paths etc. I'm definitely in the market for a modern bike with a front shock, and I joined this forum to learn, but from my experience, a budget FS bike that likely won't fit you well, and has "suspension" in name only, is no bargain even if it did not need anything other than a lube and tune.


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## Seabrooks (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks for the heads-up Flying-Monkey. I think your absolutely right, the OP has moved on. I'll just resume my lurking.


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## Will Goes Boing (Jan 25, 2008)

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but after seeing pics of the bike you want to restore, my advice is don't bother because if you ride that bike you'll probably end up really hating mountain biking.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

Will Goes Boing said:


> *Not sure if this has already been mentioned*, but after seeing pics of the bike you want to restore, my advice is don't bother because if you ride that bike you'll probably end up really hating mountain biking.


In just about every post that wasn't made by the OP...


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

Will Goes Boing said:


> if you ride that bike you'll probably end up really hating mountain biking.


There's another way of looking at this though...

As a beginner rider, unless someone tells you, you don't know what you should like about a bike.

Riding a bike you end up hating at least gives you a starting point of knowing what you DON'T like about a bike. So, when you go shopping for a replacement, you know that you hated how heavy a bike was, or that the rear suspension was more work than help. You didn't like the way it shifted, or how the brakes worked, so you can ask the clerk if there are any alternatives, or better systems, or is that how they all are going to be.

There's always a positive in everything...


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

I'm still going to try to restore it, just for the sake of restoring it. Not about being frugal, but I just want to restore it... Maybe I'll hate it and buy another one later, but I do have an itch to fix this bike.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

Someone might steer you to some better, but these are some I had been looking at.

Sette ST-21 Tool Kit - 21 Tools at Price Point

Thanks for the update, please create a thread about the restoration, and give us a link here once it's created.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Sure, I'm busy with finals for this and next week, but I've taken off from school for the summer, so good time to restore a bike, and start riding.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

There are nice old Stumpjumpers to restore in most cities.

Just saying.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> There are nice old Stumpjumpers to restore in most cities.
> 
> Just saying.


I would do this a hundred times over before touching the bike that OP posted. No offense to OP.


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## Will Goes Boing (Jan 25, 2008)

TenSpeed said:


> I would do this a hundred times over before touching the bike that OP posted. No offense to OP.


Yep, I'm not sure if the OP's old bike is a department store bike, sure looks like it to me but the manitou fork makes me think otherwise. Regardless whether it is or not, the bike is just not worth trying to restore. It's like saying I want to restore a rusty 1989 Toyota Tercel with water damage in the engine.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Will Goes Boing said:


> Yep, I'm not sure if the OP's old bike is a department store bike, sure looks like it to me but the manitou fork makes me think otherwise. Regardless whether it is or not, the bike is just not worth trying to restore. It's like saying I want to restore a rusty 1989 Toyota Tercel with water damage in the engine.


True, but you also can't tell someone what to like or want. I'm still puzzled by this.


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## Will Goes Boing (Jan 25, 2008)

theMeat said:


> True, but you also can't tell someone what to like or want. I'm still puzzled by this.


The OP stated that he's a new guy, with no knowledge, so I'm trying to give him sound advice to save him $ and headache by trying to restore something not worth restoring. Whether he listens or not is entirely up to him.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

I am interested to see how this plays out. I hope that OP continues to post and updates us all about the bike, and the restoration process.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

as for actually going on trail and what not. I feel like I may not be able to do that for a few months after beginning riding? I'm not in the best of shape yet, and I feel like I should just do some long endurance rides for a bit before tackling trails. Or am I overestimating the intensity?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Can you walk for an hour or so without keeling over? Awesome, go do it. Take breaks if you need to.

Going fast is a little more demanding. But the best way to get better at mountain biking is mountain biking.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm with Andrw on this. I just started riding, and at 36, having avoided much in the way of physical exertion in the last couple years, have grown rather soft around the middle, so to speak.

I made the mistake of going for a "short" ride with a few older gentlemen. I was pretty comfortable that I wouldn't embarrass myself with this bunch, and might even come out looking pretty good.

With that in mind, it was rather painful (literally, had this sharp pain right along where I imagine my diaphram must be...) when they kept stopping, looking back, and asking me if I was ok.

But, I've kept with it. The next day I started keeping track of my time on that particular section of trail, and I've been improving. Shaving a minute or two off here and there. Riding the whole way through without stopping. I've been getting better at cornering, braking, shifting, and even pedaling. It's been great.

I haven't had a chance to ride with those guys again, but when I do, I hope they won't have to stop as many times, checking up on me.


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## bob7 (Apr 18, 2012)

it is threads like these that are somewhat inspiring. not the restoring part, but that has been drug out enough. the handful of guys in their 30s getting into the sport just like I am. its tough both physically and monetarily. other people going through the samething is helpful


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> But the best way to get better at mountain biking is mountain biking.


Yep!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

bob7, I started out around 38 years old with a $200 Criagslist special that was two sizes small for me. Rode it for 2 years. Today I have 4 bikes and a full shop. Best of luck.:thumbsup:


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

bob7 said:


> it is threads like these that are somewhat inspiring. not the restoring part, but that has been drug out enough. the handful of guys in their 30s getting into the sport just like I am. its tough both physically and monetarily. other people going through the samething is helpful


Ok, so who wants to start the "Pre Midlife Crisis Return to Fitness Support Group" thread?


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Alright well... I might scratch the rebuild idea. I went to my lbs, and its going to cost me 50 to 90 alone per tire... I started looking at new bikes, they were all 1600 and up and I was in shock... than the guy there suggested a bike for $609 which was a scott aspect 29 tour, I believe... what do you all think?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

You can get a much better bike than that used. Used is a great way to go. If that bike is 600 bucks in the LBS, its probably 300 bucks used off craigslist.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

That's a lot for a tire - do you mean replacing the tires, or rebuilding the wheels? It sounds about right for a wheel build, or an inexpensive new wheel...

The Aspect frame looks like it has pretty normal XC geometry and the spec looks about right for that price.

The last three of my friends who've bought mountain bikes bought them used. I don't know what the most recent one paid, I wasn't involved as much in his process. But the other two spent $600 and $650 and ended up with a very nice Scott hardtail with good components, one of the Deore groups, and a Fox F-series fork, and a Giant Anthem with a pretty solid build, respectively.

Every time one of my friends buys a used mountain bike, I kick myself for buying mine new. Make some phone calls and see what's around on closeout, and if you have a shop near you that does used or consignment bikes. See what's on your local Craig's List.

If none of that pans out, it would definitely be a better bike to start with than what you've got now. You could either keep it and chip away at the build (very inefficient, ask me how I know.  ) or ride the hell out of it and stick to maintaining it with more-or-less the stock build until you have some time to save some money or you start making more. But, a solid frame so if you chose the first option, you'd at least end up with a nice bike.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Problem is I don't really know what to look for when I look on cl... plus I like shiny new things...and than scratching them up myself.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

This is what Pledge does to a couple-years-old bike that's been raced in the mud and repeatedly crashed.

 Kona 'cross Feb '12 011 by Andrew183, on Flickr

I was sure I'd done more damage to the paint. 

CL's not so bad. The same brands that make good new bikes make good used bikes. You can find original specs and MSRPs on the brands' web sites or bikepedia.com. And this forum is full of internet addicts who can comment on your candidate bikes.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

What makes a good frame? What makes the mongoose one I have bad? What makes the Scott one I posted good? What makes more expensive ones, better? Just need to know what I'm looking for


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## Bethany1 (Jan 18, 2012)

Check out Craigslist. There are tons of great bikes out there with decent prices. I've sold two and I know they have great homes. 

As for fixing up the bike, it would be a great learner project, but costly. I was at a used bike store and found a butt ugly yellow Trek Y-11. It was so ugly it had to go home for 250 bucks. Surprisingly, the bike was in perfect condition. It had to have just sat in a garage for years. It just needed new shifters and tires.

However; all said and done, the shifters were 25 a piece, the tires were 50 each and something else needed fixed. It really ended up being another 200 bucks or so to fix up. What I didn't know is that Trek Y's are basically junk (which is probably why it sat in a garage for years) and it hurts to ride it. 

It's a great collector's piece as my LBS has it on display as he had one when they first came out, but that's really all it's good for. I thought about taking it out on the trail, but worried that the carbon frame wouldn't hold up. The head mechanic took it out and said it was the worst ride of his life.

I think your bike is based off the Trek Y frame.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

101Surge said:


> What makes a good frame? What makes the mongoose one I have bad? What makes the Scott one I posted good? What makes more expensive ones, better? Just need to know what I'm looking for


Good frames have rational geometry that makes sense, aren't overly heavy, have good alignment and tolerances, and have all the right screw holes and cable stops and things in all the right places.

It's hard to boil down what "good" geometry is without getting circular. The way I see a frame that's sized and proportioned correctly for me is that it puts my hands and feet in the right places when I build it up with a stem size that gives good handling. Most XC hardtails in the mid- to high-end price brackets have pretty similar top tube lengths at each size. Recreational and department store bikes tend to have much shorter top tubes. They feel more comfortable on initial ride and maybe for someone who rides them to the liquor store and back at very low effort, but it's difficult for someone who wants to ride harder to set them up in a way that makes the bike both comfortable and handle nicely.

Full suspension frames need to have a suspension setup that's not overly prone to brake jack and pedal bob. Frankly, I haven't ridden a FS bike I've liked. But, some are a whole lot worse than others. It has to do with the path the axle travels in, and where the pivot point is relative to the top part of the chain.

Did you ever try riding that Mongoose? How was it?

There's nothing particularly ground-breaking about the Scott. It's built with double-butted 6061 Aluminum. That's a particular alloy of aluminum that has a good (but not earth-shattering) strength to weight ratio, so they don't need to use as much of it to make an acceptably strong frame. The tubes are thinner where they don't need to be as thick, making the bike lighter. That's what butted means. The proportions should make it easy for someone who wants to ride athletically to make the bike fit well without screwing up the handling. The head angle is a little slacker than a lot of comparable bikes. I think that improves the handling characteristics on rough trails. It also slows down the bike's handling and makes it a little harder to maintain a good line on a climb. Personally, I think it's a tradeoff that's worth it, but head angle is something people debate a lot.

I'd be confident that things on the Scott that are supposed to be parallel are parallel, ditto things that are supposed to be perpendicular, all the holes that have a specific size they need to be are actually that size, the heat treatment's been done correctly and the frame won't fail prematurely, or unless I hit it really, really hard or drive it into the frame of a garage door, etc. Basically, I'd expect to be able to build up that kind of frame and not have to think about it again or solve weird problems - just go ride. (Or buy one complete, what I've usually done anyway, and go ride.)

The component selections matter too. Much nicer stuff on the Scott. It's low-end as bikes sold in specialty stores go, so it won't be trouble-free. High end stuff isn't either, but I'd anticipate spending more of my time fussing around with components, maybe killing the fork in the first season, maybe replacing the wheels in the first off-season (but I think they'd at least survive a season.) I'd expect to have to replace a lot of the drivetrain over a period of seasons, but nothing right away. That's true for high end bikes too, but I think I'd get fewer seasons.

The longer I ride bikes, the less I want from them. I now want a bike that goes, stops, shifts, tracks nicely, soaks up trail chatter, and stays out of my way. I'm actually pretty happy with what I have now. The drivetrain's a Deore/LX/SLX blend, the fork's an old Marzocchi with an air spring and a rebound damper (miss having a compression damper, but I'm in school too right now) and I've got hydraulic disc brakes. I pretty much just go and ride the bike, and expect it to work from the beginning to the end of my ride, for as many hours as that takes. Not that I don't still take what I need to fix it - this is an off-road sport - but I remember being in college and riding something with a much cheaper build and messing with it constantly. I used to have to screw around with my old brakes sometimes, which was a lot of the impetus for the new ones. When I had to stop multiple times in one race and finished with only one brake working, and at about half its usual power, that really strained my patience.

Long-ass answer to a short question, but you did ask.  This is why people always just say to get an enthusiast-level bike, new or used depending on your price, and don't go too much into why.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks for all that info, it really clears things up for me! To answer your question, no I never rode the mongoose, it's actually my dad's old bike that he hasn't ridden in years, and the last time I think he used it I was still rocking training wheels. You suggest the first thing I change is the fork? The stock one is trash I guess? Someone mentioned something about the manitou fork on my mongoose, is that any better than the stock one on the scott to swap on? Also you expect the wheels to be done in a year's time?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Manitou has made nice forks and they've made garbage. Hard to know what you've got. Why don't you air up the tires and take it for a spin? At least, if the chain will turn at all.

I don't have saddle time on the Suntour, so I'm going from others' posts and my experience of their competition in that pricepoint. It hasn't been inspiring. Nicer suspension forks are very expensive, it's easy to see why they don't appear on entry-level bikes. Rigid forks are a lot more affordable, or you can cross your fingers and buy something on EBay. I got about four years out of a Manitou R7 I got for $75.

The wheels probably won't do anything dangerous or completely quit on you. I try to give my bikes a decent going-over in the winter, and at least start the season with everything working. Part of that would be feeling for grinding in the hubs. Nicer hubs can be repacked or have the bearings replaced. The cheapest hubs can still be repacked, but if I open up a hub to do something like that and don't find any seals, it's garbage, and I'll either replace the hub (pain in the ass, sometimes viable if you do your own work) or the whole wheel.

If funds didn't permit, you could just run the wheels/fork/etc. into the ground. With forks, that can be dangerous - sometimes when things break they develop weird manners. With wheels, it's mostly just annoying. Although if you kill the freehub body, the bike is unrideable until you replace it.

Bikes like this are really for two customers. People who will ride them to work and the grocery store or up and down a bike path, and people getting their feet wet with off-road. I don't want to dissuade you from getting a bike, and I don't want to badger you into spending more. (I think you're already spending enough.) If you decide this is how you want to do it, that's fine too. I just think you should give a used bike for the same money some serious consideration - long-term, both bikes will get chewed, but starting from a higher spec should save you from having to replace a lot of stuff so soon. So cost of ownership is usually less, and you don't lose riding days to mechanical issues.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Chain is done on the mongoose, I don't think it would air up anyways. The bike has been sitting vacant for around 8 or so years, 3 of which have been completely outside, i'm sure the tires/tubes would be dryrotted. Im not really fond of buying something like a bike used... but I am open to it, problem is, I don't really know what I am looking for, South Florida craigslist would be my region.


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## bob7 (Apr 18, 2012)

as I stated, I dont have much more experience in this than you, but I would try at least one different bike shop also. 
there are a good handful of nice bikes around $300-400 new. 
giant boulder, Trek 820 and 3500, haro flightline

I wanted somethine a bit cheaper to start with. I looked on craigslist in my area and those about an hour away, wrote down all the models I saw in my price range ($100-250) and then researched on BikePedia, google, and this forum, on what components each model came with. primarily the fork and derailures. a post where they mention stuff like "got it tuned up at a shop" and the like, is where I think the better bikes would be. a little seat time on google and you can decide what shimano parts and forks are better than others.
then ride a bunch of them to test the shifting and braking; and make sure the frame fits you.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

Ok, the questions list for finding a bike are as follows...

*What is your budget?* 
What is the most you can afford to spend? You might come in under this price, but at least you know your high dollar limit.

*What kind of terrain do you expect to do most of your riding in?* 
Are you in hilly rocky country, flat sandy spots, mixed terrain with paved bike paths and mowed service roads?

*What are your riding goals?* 
Is it just for fitness? Commuting? Are you wanting to move on to more difficult levels of riding? Do you have dreams of being a sponsored racer?

More great advice and info can be found here...

http://forums.mtbr.com/beginners-corner/entry-level-bike-pricing-what-am-i-getting-$___-783013.html


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Well I would say the max would be what I would spend on that new scott, which is $610. 

Terrain, I live in South Florida, no hills, no rocks. Lots of sand. 

I will use it for fitness, and doing trails, I will start on novice trails with the intent of eventually being able to do the advanced/expert trails.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

101Surge said:


> Well I would say the max would be what I would spend on that new scott, which is $610.
> 
> Terrain, I live in South Florida, no hills, no rocks. Lots of sand.
> 
> I will use it for fitness, and doing trails, I will start on novice trails with the intent of eventually being able to do the advanced/expert trails.


Something else that could play a factor, that you would know for yourself, or a salesman could look at you and guess, is your height, and weight. This matters for bike fit. You don't need a 19 inch frame, if you're 5'2" Not if you plan on having kids.

This is good too, when you walk into an LBS, and you can help the sales person help you, so they're not directing you to something outside of your price range, skill level, etc.

Here's the Craigslist section that's for bikes in S. FL if anyone is interested in picking something out that would suit 101Surge's needs.

south florida bicycles - all classifieds - craigslist


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

Wow, plenty to choose from... I put in 600 as max price, and typed in the word mountain and came up with this...

south florida bicycles - all classifieds "mountain" - craigslist

This one stands out to me for some reason...

Specialized HardRock - Large

Although, at 5'10" the large frame felt big to me.


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## JJMacDaddy (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm sorry but your best bet would be to save up and find a decent bike on craigslist. Before you realize, if you try to restore/repair this bike you will be in alot of money with many problems


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Flying-Monkey said:


> Something else that could play a factor, that you would know for yourself, or a salesman could look at you and guess, is your height, and weight. This matters for bike fit. You don't need a 19 inch frame, if you're 5'2" Not if you plan on having kids.
> 
> This is good too, when you walk into an LBS, and you can help the sales person help you, so they're not directing you to something outside of your price range, skill level, etc.
> 
> ...


Oh, yes I forgot to mention. When I went into my LBS, they had one of those Scott's built, but the salesman immediately told me it was a Large and he expects that I ride a Medium at my 5'9-5'10 height. He pulled the bike down, and we all immediately confirmed, that I would be running into a world of hurt on a large.


JJMacDaddy said:


> I'm sorry but your best bet would be to save up and find a decent bike on craigslist. Before you realize, if you try to restore/repair this bike you will be in alot of money with many problems


Yes... I've essentially given up the restoration idea... at least for now.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Skip any bikes that don't go, stop and shift. It's very difficult to figure out the rest of the condition of a bike you can't ride.

Don't worry overmuch about standover height, especially on a 29er. What really matters is the reach. A large may well be too big for you - I ride a medium (I'm also shorter than you, FWIW) and going to a longer stem than what I use makes my back hurt in about a half hour of riding. But, if you have long arms it could be appropriate.

You can have your shop build up a medium for you, so you can give it a try. One of the big advantages of buying from a shop, even without much budget, is they have a lot of bikes so it's easy to compare and get the right thing, and you get to at least start with a clean slate as far as mechanical problems are concerned. That's part of why I bought mine at retail - I was working a ton at the time, and didn't want to take the extra time to find a used bike, especially if I didn't like the first one. My shop put me on a 17" and a 19", and while the difference was subtle, the 19" didn't feel quite right even riding it around the block. So I'm glad I got the 17", it's been a great size for me. Riding the different sizes back-to-back should be useful, even if you haven't been on a mountain bike in a while. For me, it'd been about seven years since I'd been mountain biking when I picked up my current one.

I still think used is a better way to stretch a buck in terms of how much bike you get, but there's some real value in the services a shop offers.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

I am slightly taller than you, and have both a medium and a large. Our height is a weird little niche. Too big for a medium, too small for a large. I think it really depends on the geometry of the bike. That and your inseam will play a part in the fit.

You can always change the stem or add a set back seat post if needed, to either increase or decrease the cock pit size.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Skip any bikes that don't go, stop and shift. It's very difficult to figure out the rest of the condition of a bike you can't ride.
> 
> Don't worry overmuch about standover height, especially on a 29er. What really matters is the reach. A large may well be too big for you - I ride a medium (I'm also shorter than you, FWIW) and going to a longer stem than what I use makes my back hurt in about a half hour of riding. But, if you have long arms it could be appropriate.
> 
> ...


See, when I went in the shop yesterday, I really felt comfortable with buying from the store. The salesman explained a lot to me about bikes and the reason for the high costs, the differences between sizes, tires, etc. (all while the store was already closed I add) He also explained to me the customer care I will get and free tune ups and what not from buying from the shop, and it made me feel a lot more confident in the purchase rather than buying used with no support.


TenSpeed said:


> I am slightly taller than you, and have both a medium and a large. Our height is a weird little niche. Too big for a medium, too small for a large. I think it really depends on the geometry of the bike. That and your inseam will play a part in the fit.
> 
> You can always change the stem or add a set back seat post if needed, to either increase or decrease the cock pit size.


I feel comfortable sitting on the mongoose I have, granted, it is a 26", not a 29, so it's different I guess. But when he brought down the Large, I had no desire to even try it out. Looking at it made me hurt lol. In fact I was feeling more comfortable looking at a small, If I could try a small I would, but I guess that really wouldn't be possible for my height?


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## bob7 (Apr 18, 2012)

2011 SPECIALIZED SPORT DISC

Gt mountain bike

2012 and 2011, the right size probably, barely used, over $100 off full retail.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

bob7 said:


> 2011 SPECIALIZED SPORT DISC
> 
> Gt mountain bike
> 
> 2012 and 2011, the right size probably, barely used, over $100 off full retail.


Decent bikes but no great deals there.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

101Surge said:


> See, when I went in the shop yesterday, I really felt comfortable with buying from the store. The salesman explained a lot to me about bikes and the reason for the high costs, the differences between sizes, tires, etc. (all while the store was already closed I add) He also explained to me the customer care I will get and free tune ups and what not from buying from the shop, and it made me feel a lot more confident in the purchase rather than buying used with no support.
> 
> I feel comfortable sitting on the mongoose I have, granted, it is a 26", not a 29, so it's different I guess. But when he brought down the Large, I had no desire to even try it out. Looking at it made me hurt lol. In fact I was feeling more comfortable looking at a small, If I could try a small I would, but I guess that really wouldn't be possible for my height?


Get over the thing about the large - at least take it for a spin. It doesn't commit you to anything. Try the small too, if one's built and ready. It won't hurt anything. It's definitely worth getting a medium built up to try. He'll just sell it to someone else if you settle on a different size. From what you've said, I suspect that's what you'll choose. But it should be your choice (and I might be wrong) not something you do because some guy on the Internet says it's a good idea.

The prices in those ads blew. For a used bike, you should be looking at around half of retail. Sometimes people are open to bargaining, and that's just their starting offer. Sometimes they're not, and you'd be wasting your time. New bikes come with support and a warranty. I don't think that's worth that much, but when the prices are almost the same anyway... You can negotiate with shops too, although I think it's a little harder when they have to assemble the bike for you - it's not exactly a quick sale anymore at that point, compared to a bike they've already assembled and that's been sitting on the floor, costing money.

I don't regret buying my bike. While I've had to replace a lot of parts, it got me back on a bike when I decided I wanted to start mountain biking again, and I did get the right size. Value is subjective - if you're more interested in feeling comfortable with the purchase, and buying a bike that you know not to have any weird problems waiting to jump out and cost you money you didn't plan on, buying from a shop is a good way to go. There's usually also a warranty on parts, so if something does come up in the first year, you aren't necessarily backed into spending much, or anything, on a replacement.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

I will try all sizes out if I decide to buy new, which is what I am leaning towards. I would feel bad to go in a second time, try everything out, and not give the guy a sale. I don't even know how I am going to get on the large though, haha. 

The salesman also mentioned, without me even trying to negotiate anything, that he can knock a few bucks off, not entirely sure how much bucks we are talking about, but hey, he mentioned it without me mentioning it.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Don't worry about the salesperson not making the sale. If he/she is good, they would rather get you on the right sized bike, and for you to be happy than make that sale. If he/she does it right, they will be making the sale, soon enough.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

I agree, as long as you're not pulling the salesman away from something else he was doing, there's no reason to feel any sort of obligation to that shop. (Even then you don't owe them anything. Although it would be bad form to shop with them, then buy online, and then return to them for service... )

I have a shop I want to deal with, even if it means trying bikes out at other shops and then going back to "my" shop and have them order it in. This group has been excellent to me, and the mechanic there hosts a ride on the local trail each week, that I got to tag along with a couple weeks ago. 

I can't wait to go again, that first ride was a little brutal, and I'm in much better shape, and doing the run in at least ten minutes less time.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

I see a lot of people on here raving about airborne bicycles, what do you guys think of the zeppelin elite and marauder which are both under $700


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

101Surge said:


> I see a lot of people on here raving about airborne bicycles, what do you guys think of the zeppelin elite and marauder which are both under $700


As a new convert to MTB myself, I understand the question you're asking. The trouble is, the experienced guys see it and they end up banging their heads against the keyboard... 

The question you're asking is actually quite vague. More than that, there's so much to the personal feel of the bike to the rider. You can have the most expensive bike, loved by everyone, and you get on it and it feels awkward.

You can ask if this brand, or that make has a good reputation. Or if the components that are used for a bike are of quality. But you're asking if "Ford" or "Chevy" make a good truck.

Truck people would ask you, what are you using it for? Which features do you want in it? Are you towing a 5th wheel trailer, or going 4x4 mudding on the weekends?


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

I feel like the only way for me to really understand is to start riding, but I can't ride without a bike... I might just have to blindly buy something and go from there.


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## blammo585 (Apr 24, 2012)

I am kind of in this same boat, and I believe that my bike is very similar. I have an old Mongoose D70R that I am going to start riding again. The difference is that mine is in pretty decent shape. I really like this thing though. I have to disagree with what someone said though about the suspension design making it harder to ride on trails rather than easier. I have been on a few trails and have tried others' hardtails just to see the difference, and I much prefer mine. That's why I can't see getting myself a "better" bike when my price range would be in the hardtail line, and all the dual suspension bikes I looked at were way out of my price range (well over $1000 unless I'm just looking in the wrong places).

With all that said, in the shape that it appears to be in I don't know how much it's worth investing in.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

There is that. 

Well, then the two options would be to either buy a used bike which you know nothing about. And might get a great deal, or might get a lemon.

Or you could go test ride a few new ones, find one that fits you best in your price range, and go with that for now.

On a decent entry level bike, you should be able to get a good portion of the bike back in resale. 

As long as the bike fits, I doubt you can go wrong. At least until you found what you liked and didn't like about your bike.

I'm riding a 98 Giant. I love it. It gets me out on the trails, I can ride it for hours, and it was "cheap". It's getting me through until I find my next bike.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

101Surge said:


> I feel like the only way for me to really understand is to start riding, but I can't ride without a bike... I might just have to blindly buy something and go from there.


I think you've got a little better information than you think you do.

You've now found a shop you're comfortable with, and a model that you're attracted to.

I think you should still try more of the size range. But you could make a much worse decision than to buy the Scott.

Some of the more experienced posters here always recommend people go to the LBS with a budget like yours, and just buy their favorite retail bike. While I don't always share their opinion, I think it's got merit. You're getting a ton of information right now and it doesn't all agree. Buying on CL seems like it's not something you really want to deal with. Buy the Scott and you'll be done with the hypothetical stage of the process.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

That's probably what I will end up doing. There's actually another shop riding distance away from my house, but to my understanding they only sell Trek bikes, where as the other shop I went too had a huge selection, not sure if I should check that place out as well, as they are literally a couple miles away from my house.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

"Does Trek make good bikes?"

Definitely go check out the other shop if it's not too difficult. Trek's Trek-branded bike in your price range has somewhat funky geometry. (3900 or 3700, depending on how flexible on price the dealer is.) You'll either like it a lot better or a lot worse than the Scott you've ridden. The bottom-level Fisher, the Wahoo, is in your price range too. It also has slightly funky geometry, but it's much closer to other XC hardtails. So you might love it, you might hate it, you might not be able to feel a difference.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

I like the looks of that Scott!

For the price it looks like a good deal to me.

Aspect 29 Tour - SCOTT Sports


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

I suppose I'll check it out than. I literally pass by the store pretty much every time I leave my house. Is it normal for a bicycle shop to only specialize in one type of bike though? They've actually been there for as long as I've lived here (12+years) so I suppose they do well.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> "Does Trek make good bikes?"
> 
> Definitely go check out the other shop if it's not too difficult. Trek's Trek-branded bike in your price range has somewhat funky geometry. (3900 or 3700, depending on how flexible on price the dealer is.) You'll either like it a lot better or a lot worse than the Scott you've ridden. The bottom-level Fisher, the Wahoo, is in your price range too. It also has slightly funky geometry, but it's much closer to other XC hardtails. So you might love it, you might hate it, you might not be able to feel a difference.


The mechanic at my favorite lbs was telling me a story about Fisher going over the handlebars because of a small pot hole. He redesigned his bike with a longer top bar to prevent this from happening. Thus the "Fisher" geometry.

I meant to look that up, to see what more there was to the story. Thanks for reminding me.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

I guess it's just me being a newbie, but I don't see a difference in the shapes of the frames of the trek 3900 and Scott Aspect.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

101Surge said:


> I suppose I'll check it out than. I literally pass by the store pretty much every time I leave my house. Is it normal for a bicycle shop to only specialize in one type of bike though? They've actually been there for as long as I've lived here (12+years) so I suppose they do well.


It might depend on how many shops there are in the area.

If there's just one, then they might cary multiple brands. But if there's several, the brands might not want to "put all of their eggs in one basket" and only sell to another shop for a certain region.

So, if you're brand X, and you think the shop that's carrying your bikes is giving preference to brand Y, you might pull your line from that shop in hopes that another dealer would do better.

At the same time, you're not going to let two neighboring dealers have to duke it out in a price war, dropping the value of your product, in order to try to undercut the competition. So it would make sense to only let one dealer per so many miles (or per number of potential customers. Denser populations=less distance between dealers.).


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

I was able to paste one over the other, it's not perfect, but I was rushing...


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

A lot of bike shops carry only road or only mountain bikes. Most also carry some hybrids, it's one of the better-selling types of bike even if they totally suck.

Most shops carry more than one brand, IME, even small shops. But sometimes they'll have a couple boutique brands that have limited selections, and then fill out their stock with a major brand. Most brands don't like to have too many shops carrying their bike in the same area. It's sort of like the too-many-Starbucks situation of a few years ago.

The difference between the Trek 3900 and Scott Aspect is a little small to spot by looking, but easier to measure. In my usual MTB size, 18"/Medium, I get a 585mm effective top tube on the Scott and 565 on the Trek. I'd need a longer stem to make the Trek work well for me. Maybe long enough to make me move up a size, to the 19.5" Trek, although I have to go to the 21" to get my usual top tube. As I go up in size, the head tube gets longer - taller riders have longer legs, so their saddles are higher above the bottom bracket, but they don't generally want much more drop drop from their saddle to the handlebars, so a longer head tube keeps things proportional. I could probably make the 21" Trek fit me okay by using a -17 degree stem, slammed, but I'd have negative standover clearance. Not a huge deal, but an inconvenience. I might compromise on the 19.5" and be more okay, but I'd just as soon have a bike that I don't have to fight with to get a good fit. And, I don't like a lot of saddle-bars drop - a rider who prefers more might not be able to fit a 3900 at all.

It's not as complicated as all that, though. The showroom setup on most bikes is relatively near the middle of the range of handlebar positions most of the time. (And ask the salesman about it.) So going with the one you feel more comfortable and better balanced on shouldn't lead you too far astray.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Flying-Monkey said:


> I was able to paste one over the other, it's not perfect, but I was rushing...





AndrwSwitch said:


> A lot of bike shops carry only road or only mountain bikes. Most also carry some hybrids, it's one of the better-selling types of bike even if they totally suck.
> 
> Most shops carry more than one brand, IME, even small shops. But sometimes they'll have a couple boutique brands that have limited selections, and then fill out their stock with a major brand. Most brands don't like to have too many shops carrying their bike in the same area. It's sort of like the too-many-Starbucks situation of a few years ago.
> 
> ...


Didn't realize something so visually minor could cause such a difference.
I can see why the hybrids are a big seller. If I didn't read up on this forum first, I would have bought one, because I want to ride around my area with the bike a lot, as well as do trails, so the hybrid sounded like a perfect option prior.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

I imagine if most of what you were doing was pavement, a well packed park trail, or some grass here and there, a hybrid would be acceptable. It's one of those things when you try to take the best of two, and make one, you usually end up with much less than the sum of the parts.

Something I recently learned about is the "stem". This is the part of the bike that is mounted to the steering column, and extends forward to the handle bars. 

For a "cramped cockpit" some people will swap out the stem they have, for a longer one, to give them more room. But this puts your body further forward over the front wheel. I have also seen where they buy a seat post with a set back for the seat, so it will ride further back from where it normally would. But now you're behind where the crank is, and your legs are angling more forward to reach the pedals.

The more I learn, the more I learn there is to learn. I remember when I thought bicycles were simple machines...


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

I figure while i'm learning here about how many different things factor in, including terrain, I figure i'll post a video I found on youtube of some of the trails at the park closest to me that has mountain bike trails, so you guys can get an idea on what the terrain is like where I am at, if that helps with anymore suggestions anyone has. Markham Park Mountain Bike Park - YouTube


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Here is a bike relatively close to you: Specialized Stumpjumper M4 18

Guy says it's a 2008, it's not. It's a 2005
BikePedia - 2005 Specialized Stumpjumper Complete Bicycle

You might be able to talk him down quite a bit if you like it.

I think you're on the right path, get a good deal on craigslist. Talk the person down as low as they will go.

If you don't like the sport, just sell the bike again.

Or my personal favorite (farther drive) (might also be too much fork for the bike)
Kona kula 19" frm MAJOR DEAL


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

hah, the first one is actually a 3 and a half hour drive from me, and the second is 5+ hours.


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## bob7 (Apr 18, 2012)

lots of great info in here. thanks


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

I saw in someone else's thread, someone posted these suggestions for someone
Save up to 60% off new Mountain Bikes - MTB - Front Suspension Gravity Basecamp 1.0
Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane 400HT
Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane 400HT
Save up to 60% off new Mountain Bikes - MTB - Dawes Haymaker 1000
These bikes are all half the price of the scott I am looking at, how do they compare?


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

That looks like a pretty nice trail you have there. In my experience, you are looking for a hard tail for trails like that. Full suspension would be a bit of overkill.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

I've been getting some "pressure" to build my own.

Since I'm not in a real rush, I have a bike that's treating me well, and I've been riding almost every day, I can afford to shop around a little.

Now I just have to learn what I want, and why.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

You do get more component for your dollar if you order from a catalog like Bikes Direct. You don't get as much more as they claim you do, so take their advertising with a grain of salt.

Some of BD's bikes have the same weird geometry as Trek's entry-level bikes, and a lot of other catalog bikes. Some have pretty traditional XC geometry. One of the problems I have with them is the issue of picking the right size - it's a lot of fun to ride a bike that really fits, and that I haven't had to make weird compromises to get to fit.

Basically, it comes down to a matter of what's more important to you. On BD's side, you get nicer components at any given pricepoint. On the side of a major-brand bike from a local shop, like the Scott, you get a chance to ride some bikes, and make sure you get the right size and model for you, you get to start with a bike that's already been built correctly and tuned up, you get some after-sale support, and sometimes you get some freebies like a different stem to get the fit dialed in.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Can someone tell me what this bike is worth and if I should get it? He is offering it for one of my paintball guns. 
GT Full Suspension mtb
It's a 98, but he says it was top of the line when he bought it. Would it be a mistake to get this considering it is older, a 26er, and full suspension?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Well it's not worth $900.

Hardtails are a pretty mature technology. FS bikes basically didn't work in the '90s, and they've continued to develop over the last decade.

I don't know what a paintball gun is worth though. The bike's probably worth on the order of $250 if everything works. Full suspension linkages have historically been more prone to breakage than hardtail frames, and given the age of the bike, that means you need to throw out the whole frame and salvage what you can of the build. The derailleurs are pretty dated. You may not be able to install disc brakes. You'll have trouble finding chain rings, when it comes up. Etc. Basically, it's old enough for maintaining it to involve at least a few old bike problems.

Here's the bikepedia page, including the original MSRP.
BikePedia - 1998 GT LTS-2000 Complete Bicycle

Obviously a lot of parts have been changed.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Alright well, i'll pass on it. With all the upgrades and it being a $1750 bike when it came out, I thought I was getting a deal. My gun sells for $650


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Well if the bike is worth $250 as you say, I'd be doing pretty bad. This gun is less than a year old and I should be able to get AT LEAST $500 for it.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Unless paintball guns hold their value a lot better than bikes, you wouldn't be doing terrible.

Older bikes are tricky because they can often ride great - it's just that you're always one particularly expensive mechanical problem away from totalling them.


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## 101Surge (Apr 18, 2012)

Well, I have some money coming in next week, and the purchase will be made shortly after. I will have be in the price range of 600-800 range, preferably on the lower side of the number . Any final suggestions on what I should look into before making the buy?


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## ryencool (Apr 20, 2012)

I was in a similar situation, except the bike I have been riding is a womens bike, so maybe worse than yours haha.However I can honestly tell you that the 10 year old womens bike I was riding was still fun. It shifted horrible, had old brakes, crappy seat etc.. I still managed to have fun. Then when I first got on here people were like unless you spend 800$ your gonna get a crap bike. So um what was is the old old bike I am on if these new ones are crap? If I can have fun on a SUPER crap bike then just a crap one would be even more fun right? 

So I went to the LBS (10-15 times in hte past month) and looked at new shiny bikes with top of the line components etc. This are all things I would LOVE to have and any experienced rider would recommend. I rode a ton of different specialized, scott, trek etc.. I really like the trek 3500 but even it was almost 400$, the disc brake one even more. It felt great to sit on and ride though, compltely differnet from my crap bike. So I went to BD.com and saw the Motobecanes. Even the 400ht has the same components as a 500$ specialized hardrock, but its 319$? shipped!...Then I looked at the geometry of the frame and it is identical to the trek 3500. So I went and rode every size 3500 they had from 15 up to 19.5...I then ordered a moto 400ht this am for 319$ and I am sure I will be happy.

That is what it all comes down to, will it make you smile. Everyone would love to be able to buy the best possible equipment for everything thye try, and for some that is possible. I compare it to my digital photography hobby. I have spent over 10k in the past 5 years. I could have spent 5k at the beginning and been set but I had 400$. So I bought a 400$ camer and slowly learned, had good experiences, and bad ones. I now have a great collection of lenses and run a photography business on the side. Part of the fun is the experience and what you gain from those experiences. People on here are trying to tell you what to buy based on their experiences, since you dont have any. Go get a bike that fits your budget. When something goes wrong with it, learn about it, and fix it. Then when your ready for a new bike you will have a ton of experience and know what you do and dont like. 

Whichever way you do it, have fun ;p otherwise what are we all doing...aslo any bike is better than no bike at all, people here seem to forget that...


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## kumachan (Mar 24, 2012)

101Surge said:


> I feel like the only way for me to really understand is to start riding, but I can't ride without a bike... I might just have to blindly buy something and go from there.


You might want to check the regional info on this website for your area, do a Google search for mtb riding groups or riding clubs in your area or check your local Craigslist "activities" or "groups" for mtb groups. You might be able to find someone that has a lender you could try or will let you try out their bike. Also check LBS as well for demo models. Fancier LBS will be able to do a "fitting" that will really let you know the size bike for you for how you want to ride. These suggestions might get you feeling what you like and want to look for in a bike and how much it'll cost. THen you can check Craigslist for similar bikes!


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

101Surge said:


> Well, I have some money coming in next week, and the purchase will be made shortly after. I will have be in the price range of 600-800 range, preferably on the lower side of the number . Any final suggestions on what I should look into before making the buy?


I'm hoping to hear about your bike purchase soon! I've been following your postings since you and I got here about the same time. I was fortunate and had a bike already. I have since bought a new Trek Cobia. Thinking back on how many rides I have had on these two bikes, and how much fun I've had, it would be hard to put a dollar amount on that.

This being said, find a bike that fits. Find a shop that will let you take one for a decent test ride. Try riding up and down hills if you can find them. Look for breaks in the asphalt, and ride through that to get a feel for the shocks. Pick some points on the ground, and try swerving in between them without falling over, and see how the bike feels in all of this.

It doesn't matter how expensive the bike is, if you aren't comfortable on it, then you won't ride it. The less you ride the bike, the more it costs. I look at it per ride. The more rides I do, the more I can divide the total cost by. Pretty soon, that purchase was rather justifiable.

Just today, a coworker asked "Did you really spend as much as I heard you did on that bike?"

Yeah, I did. Another coworker said they spend $400 a month on cigarettes. In just three months of giving yourself cancer, you spent what I paid for my bike. If I decide to quit riding, I can sell my bike for a decent portion of what I paid for it. Which one is the better way to spend your money?


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## Slozomby (Mar 22, 2012)

Flying-Monkey said:


> Just today, a coworker asked "Did you really spend as much as I heard you did on that bike?"


my buddy asked me the same thing. he had no problems dropping 60k on a nice car couldnt bring himself to buy anything nicer than a trek 820. i pointed out that my road bike and my cobia combined weight about as much as his small 820 . he still doesnt get it. i wonder if he bought something nicer if he'd ride it more often? who can say.


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## JR 137 (Apr 28, 2012)

Flying-Monkey; said:


> Just today, a coworker asked "Did you really spend as much as I heard you did on that bike?"
> 
> Yeah, I did. Another coworker said they spend $400 a month on cigarettes. In just three months of giving yourself cancer, you spent what I paid for my bike. If I decide to quit riding, I can sell my bike for a decent portion of what I paid for it. Which one is the better way to spend your money?


When I worked in the Bronx, one of the guys in my office bought a $3k-ish Cannondale FS. Another guy quietly looked it up online and asked if he really paid that much, as neither of them owned a car and used to take the train in. While this was going on, my hoss said 'Why would you spend $3k on a bike when you can get a good one for $100 nowadays?'

With a smile, the guy replied 'Why did you buy a $45k car, when you can get a good one for $1k?'

To the OP -

I'm in a similar boat as you (I even started a thread called almost the same thing). While I as at EMS about 2 hours ago buying new grips and a few other random things, I saw a Kona Nunu in my size for 25% off because it's a 2011 model. Originally $750, it works out to be about $575. Still wondering why I didn't lay my credit card down. (Well, my 18 month old daughter has something to do with it) I say this because if you've got an EMS around, they may have some 2011 models laying around.


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## ak-88 (Aug 30, 2012)

I found a amazing specialized hardrock for 140 bucks that looked and felt like new. Granted i'm no where near a pro but i got a Trek 820 with the same mindset of fixing up but after TONS of research i have found that for under 300 bucks you can find some awesome bikes that are in infinitely better condition that the one that you picked up, not to jump of the bandwagon or anything...


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