# Niterider or Cateye, or ???



## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

So here's where I'm at, wow lights have come a long way!

I have a Minewt 700, that has been fine, but, with the new Lumina's, it seems that having a battery back strapped to your bike is old school. 

I'm going to be night riding once to twice a week over the winter. 1.5 to 2.5 hours is the time frame.

Last time I was this active at night, I had a Niterider Flamethrower, and I didn't think there could be anything better.. wrong.

So, I want to get a light to replace the Minewt 700. My Lumina 650 puts out as much light and lasts about the same. I'm thinking about the Lumina 700, but I saw the Cateye Volt 1200 and am thinking that might be a good option as well.

Can a few of you night riding guru's set me straight?

Thanks, 

Dan


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

YamaDan said:


> it seems that having a battery back strapped to your bike is old school.


words cannot express how wrong what you stated is.



YamaDan said:


> Last time I was this active at night, I had a Niterider Flamethrower, and I didn't think there could be anything better.. wrong.


you sure have a knack for being completely wrong.



YamaDan said:


> So, I want to get a light to replace the Minewt 700. My Lumina 650 puts out as much light and lasts about the same. I'm thinking about the Lumina 700


you have a Lumina 650 and you want to replace it with Lumina 700 ? did i read that right ? maybe what you really need is a Lumina 651 ? 



YamaDan said:


> but I saw the Cateye Volt 1200 and am thinking that might be a good option as well.


what do you mean "saw" as in saw the ad on the right of this page ? cateye historically has never produced a single good headlight. if that tells you anything.



YamaDan said:


> Can a few of you night riding guru's set me straight?


not enough information. describe what kind of riding you do, not just how long.

is the path very twisty ? are there many obstacles to avoid on the ground ? are there many branches to avoid in the air ? are there any fast descents ? will there be a great amount of vibration at the light mount ?

are you looking for a bar or helmet light ?

how much are you looking to spend ?


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

androgen said:


> words cannot express how wrong what you stated is.
> you sure have a knack for being completely wrong.
> 
> you have a Lumina 650 and you want to replace it with Lumina 700 ? did i read that right ? maybe what you really need is a Lumina 651 ?
> ...


Tough room..

I'll try again.

I have a Minewt 700 dual. I run this on the bars. In the past, I have tried helmet lights and felt they washed the trail out too much. Meaning, the shadows showing the variations in the trail disappear.

I also have a Lumina 650. I used this on the Road bike for night rides last season. I found it is very good for the dirt as well. I ran this on my helmet, and am thinking that both bar and helmet are going to be the right combo.

I ride in SoCal. Fire roads, single track, rocky descents. Current loop has a berm run with jumps, to a fire road climb to a fast paced single track decent with lots of baby head sized rocks. in the fall, coverage is open, in the spring it's gets very tight.

I don't have a budget really, I'm thinking in the $200 range, but if I need to spend $500, that doesn't affect me too much.

For the record, my first post was not about making statements, I was asking for help.

PS, The Cateye stadium light was pretty ahead of it's time, it was the first HID from what I remember. I didn't know if they had improved or not.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

PPS No, I saw the 2014 MTBR light shoot out.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

wow i missed the 2014 shootout ! i thought they didn't do the 2014 yet because the sticky on the top of this page is still for the 2013 one ...

thanks for the heads up.

if anybody is wondering here is the link to 2014 shootout:

2014 Mtbr Bike Lights Shootout | Mountain Bike Review

it seems only a handful of lights have been reviewed so far. most reviews are "coming soon" ...

*on the other hand the Beam Shots are already up ...*

that said, i just looked at the beam shot for the Cateye Volt 1200 and as i expected - it is bad.

it is shockingly bright for a Cateye product but brightness is not everything.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

YamaDan said:


> Tough room..
> 
> I'll try again.
> 
> ...


consider NiteRider Pro 3600 DIY. great light. had it last year - returned because i didn't need so much power at that time, but now i want it again.

look at Light & Motion Seca 2000 Enduro. this will be a noticeable upgrade from the light you're using now. it can be used either on bar or helmet, and it has 3 hours of run time on high.

you can also consider cheaper Seca models. the "Race" models come with 3 cell battery while the "Enduro" come with 6 cell. if your rides are short you can get away with "Race" and save money and weight.

the Seca 1700 is last year's model that i have. the Seca 1500 is a current model but with reduced output for those who can't afford the Seca 2000. both are good options on the budget.

Lupine Wilma is a very bright light that can be optioned with great batteries and chargers and Lupine has great reputation for reliability, however the beam of the Wilma is neither as wide nor as even as either Seca 1500/1700/2000 nor the NiteRider Pro 3600 DIY. for a helmet light however you might not need a wider beam.

Lupine Betty is a great light, but is IMO overpriced. still, it might be the ultimate helmet light.

to summarize:

Bar: NiteRider Pro 3600 DIY

Helmet: Light & Motion Seca 2000/1700/1500 Enduro/Race or Lupine Wilma / Betty.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

here is a video of me with NiteRider Pro 3600 DIY on bar:

Niterider PRO 3600 and Dinotte 300 R in City Traffic ( Canon Vixia HF M500 Night Test ) - YouTube

and here is a video of me with dual Light & Motion Seca 1700 on helmet:

Bike Lights Demonstration - YouTube

another one with dual Light & Motion Seca 1700 on helmet:

Bike Lights Demonstration: Dosun, Seca, NiteFlux, Dinotte ... - YouTube

in the two Videos taken on a large street the NiteRider seems much brighter than dual Seca 1700 but that's misleading. the NR video is shot from a darker spot about half a block away relative to where the Seca video is shot. also the NR beam looks brighter because it is wider, while the Seca beam is narrower but projects far.

Seca 2000 Enduro and NiteRider Pro 3600 DIY both cost about the same, but NR is almost double the power. so why would you still consider Seca ? because it is a lighter, smaller system that still has great throw as well as even beam without artifacts. the Seca gets the same run time from a 3 cell battery as NiteRider does from a 8 cell, and still manages almost the same throw as the NiteRider. the advantage of NiteRider is the width of the beam. On a twisty trail as a bar light the width of the beam will be great advantage. On a more straight trail as a helmet light the Seca is probably wide enough.

also the NR Pro 3600 DIY is last year's model, while Seca 2000 is current. last year's Seca 1700 Race is much cheaper, and has a comparable bang for the buck to NR Pro 3600 DIY. of course prices change constantly.

generally speaking a single NR Pro 3600 DIY is slightly cheaper than dual Seca 1700 Race. ( when i got my Seca 1700 Race it was only $320 versus $570 for ?Seca 2000 Enduro ). dual Seca 1700 will have the same run time and same overall output as NR Pro 3600 but the beam will be more focused ( better throw ) while still having adequate spill. i can't say which beam is better - both are very good - and it will depend on the application which one works best.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

You thinking of upgrading anything anytime soon??


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Gharddog03 said:


> You thinking of upgrading anything anytime soon??


who me ? no. no money.

if i did, i would get a NR Pro 3600 DIY on the bar, and keep everything else as it is.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

androgen said:


> who me ? no. no money.


Yea, just wondering if you had your eyes set on something. I'm looking at the Wilma series but the price is up there since I like to run a pair on the bars.

The 3600 is sick, cheapest I've seen it at 450$. Anywhere cheaper?


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

i personally dislike self-contained lights, but if you want a self-contained light consider Light & Motion Taz 1200 or the Exposure range of lights.

there is also Light & Motion Urban 700 but it is about same power as Lumina, although it is noticeably smaller and lighter.

the Taz probably will not stay in place over the bumps. it seems L&M used the same mount on all the lights and while it may be enough for ~ 130 gram Seca and Urban the Taz is much heavier.

on the other hand Exposure mounts are much stronger, but Exposure beam isn't as optimized as Taz. but i think i would rather have a light that stays in place. for road use though the Taz is more or less king of self-contained lights.

i wouldn't use any of them however for heavy-duty off-roading. maybe Exposure, but only if you don't ride very long.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Gharddog03 said:


> The 3600 is sick, cheapest I've seen it at 450$. Anywhere cheaper?


i didn't see the $450 where is that ? all i saw was $530.

i don't think the wilma would be a good bar light - not wide enough. on the helmet though it might be worth the money considering output to weight ratio and the fact that you don't really want a floody light on the helmet.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

New NiteRider Pro 3600 LED Bicycle Light System Rechargeable Li ion Battery | eBay


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Gharddog03 said:


> New NiteRider Pro 3600 LED Bicycle Light System Rechargeable Li ion Battery | eBay


oh eBay ... i don't normally buy from eBay ... not sure why really

the light quantity and quality is great. some people say NR reliability is not so great. that battery tray thing in particular to me looked like the contacts may fail ... but you can buy a new one for like $20. also the water seal between the battery and the battery tray seemed questionable as well.

on the other hand the way it straps to the frame is reassuring - two straps, not one. and i like the idea that you can have a 2nd battery in your pack and switch them without undoing any plugs or velcro, although the release mechanism is quite stiff.

overall the impression i got from NR Pro 3600 DIY is that fit and finish was pretty miserable, but performance and features simply outstanding.

i think the pros on this light outweigh the cons. the cons would be reliability, size and weight.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

I hear you on eBay. But 100% feedback with 17000+ sells is pretty stellar. I would probably go with Lupine if I start hitting the 500$ mark.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Gharddog03 said:


> I hear you on eBay. But 100% feedback with 17000+ sells is pretty stellar. I would probably go with Lupine if I start hitting the 500$ mark.


to me Lupine is like Apple. people buy it because it has great fit and finish, and is small and light and has great performance and best of all everybody knows its expensive.

but when you start to dig deeper you realize that there are better options out there. for example i use Samsung Galaxy Note 3. compared to iPhone 5S it has twice the screen area with 3 times the pixels, double the battery capacity, and almost 100 gigabytes of storage ( 32 internal + 64 on micro SD card ). it also has other perks like AMOLED screen, removable battery and WACOM active digitizer stylus.

the NR Pro 3600 DIY is like Samsung Galaxy Note 3.

compared to Betty the 3600 has a better mount IMO and has a beam that is twice as wide and twice as even. it also has really cool programming feature. unfortunately it only costs half as much as the Betty. some people may not be able to get over this 

for a bar light there is nothing i would rather have than NR 3600. for a bar light i would take it over the 4500 lumen Betty. for off-road use i would even take it over 2 X Seca 2000, although for road use 2 X Seca 2000 would be better ( because on the road throw is more important than width ).

on the helmet though, Betty / Wilma does look good. sort of how iPhone is a good choice for a 4'11", 80 pound 13 year old girl.

did you look at the beam shots from the 2014 MTBR shootout ? the power of the new Betty and Wilma is astounding. but the beam shape is still inferior. might still be a great choice for some applications.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

YamaDan said:


> So here's where I'm at, wow lights have come a long way!
> 
> I have a Minewt 700, that has been fine, but, with the new Lumina's, it seems that having a battery back strapped to your bike is old school.
> 
> ...


Cygolite is another manufacturer to consider. I've been using a helmet mounted TridenX 600 lumen triple LED light for 2-3 years. This alone is more than enough light (with a excellent wide beam) for me and I've never found the need to run it on the highest brightness setting. It has an external battery which I generally put in my back pocket or mount on the bike frame.

I ride everywhere with it- commutes to work in the suburbs, twisty single track in the woods and urban assault rides around and through Washington, DC. I forgot it one evening recently and used a friend's 750 Lumen version of the same light mounted on my handlebars. I found mounting the light on the handlebars to be significantly less effective.

I purchased a couple of Minewt 500 lumen cordless lights last year on sale for like $70 each! (one for my GF and the other as a backup light for me). They put out an impressive amount of light for a single beam. It appears as though the tint is different on some of the newer Minewt lights (650 for example) which my eyes somehow perceive as less effective. The main advantage of the newer ones is they come with both a helmet and bar mount (I had to purchase helmet mounts for the Minewt 500's).


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## stu06 (Dec 8, 2012)

Hey YamaDan,

Two lights are a must (helmet + bar). As you observed, a helmet light on its own washes out trail details. Add a bar light and, voila, it's like watching a 3D movie suddenly!

Remote control. Having the ability to dim your light (in consideration of other trail users) without taking a hand off the grip is priceless, especially when going fast and over technical or rocky sections of trail. 

Flood v. Spot. Flood on the bar and spot on the helmet. I've experimented quite a bit in this regard and have found this to be the best arrangement for me.

How Bright? That depends on how good your night vision is. I have relatively poor night vision AND my eyes tend to water up during fast descents. Consequently, I need quite a bit of lumens! My wife, on the other hand, has eyes like an eagle and can see EVERYTHING with minimal light. Grrrr...

Hope this helps.


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## Bcbert-4 (Mar 16, 2013)

NiteRider Pro 1800 Race is another one you should check out. Super bright, but much more reasonably priced than the 3600. I use it helmet mounted for single track trail riding in new england. I keep it on low for flats and uphills, kick it up to high on the down hills.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Bcbert-4 said:


> NiteRider Pro 1800 Race is another one you should check out. Super bright, but much more reasonably priced than the 3600. I use it helmet mounted for single track trail riding in new england. I keep it on low for flats and uphills, kick it up to high on the down hills.


the problem with Pro 1800 is that it is hard to recommend over Light & Motion Seca. the Seca has greater throw, wider spill, more even beam with less artifacts, longer run times with more compact batteries and more sturdy connectors.

the Pro 3600, on the other hand, throws enough upgrades over the 1800 in the mix to push it over the Seca IMO.

3600 upgrades over the 1800:

* double the output
* wider, more even beam that still has massive throw
* one of a kind quick release battery system, with double the battery capacity
* fully customizable output settings over USB 
* charger shows battery charge level as it charges

the Pro 1800 does have advantages over the Seca - it is more solidly built, it has a 8 step battery gauge, and it has more useful ( IMO ) flashing modes than Seca. but on-the-whole i consider Seca to be better.


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## Bcbert-4 (Mar 16, 2013)

All good points. I've had L&M products but always found the Nit Rider products to suit me, my riding, and my eyes better at night. You could also consider the 2014 NR 2200 Dual Beam Race that is now available. Avg pricing looks to be $340.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

Went this route.. great price helped.

NiteRider Pro 1000 Race LED Headlight - Performance Exclusive - Select Lights and Trainers Sale

I'll use the Lumina 650 on the helmet.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

YamaDan said:


> Tough room..


YamaDan, sorry that one of the more helpful members didn't catch your post, they would have answered your questions without belittling you.

Glad to see you found a light that fit your needs, enjoy.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

fightnut said:


> YamaDan, sorry that one of the more helpful members didn't catch your post, they would have answered your questions without belittling you.
> 
> Glad to see you found a light that fit your needs, enjoy.


Meh, it's the internet. I learned long ago to have thick skin if I'm going to post. I didn't really get answers here, but I did figure it out..so, it's all good!

Thanks!


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