# Pinion Gearbox advancement



## shwinboy (Jan 13, 2004)

If only we saw the same pace of development from Rohloff.
Eurobike: Pinion 2015 with three new, lighter gearboxes | Enduro Mountainbike Magazine

The P1 .9 sounds like the ticket. Less gears 500g lighter and a decent ratio.


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## ChristianCoté (Jul 13, 2014)

God they're beautiful. At the rate they're advancing, Pinion really does look like it could be the future of high grade, anything-but-racing bikes.


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## OFFcourse (Aug 11, 2011)

I don't think people really understand all the benefits of an IGH for MTBing until they use one for a while. The major drawbacks I found being weight (back heavy/overall) sometimes range (on some models). With the weight centered it makes it less of an issue and the range looks great, plus they are actively developing them so we are bound to see lighter and better options in the future.


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## Carlos Fandango (Mar 14, 2013)

*What gives derailleurs?*



OFFcourse said:


> I don't think people really understand all the benefits of an IGH for MTBing until they use one for a while.


This is what gets me. Do people really love fettling their derailleurs all the time? I have to admit I've spent a fair amount of time getting my Alfine 11 to work on a full sus but despite that I still wouldn't dream of going back. It's Rohloff/Pinion from here on out. I love what Pinion have done with the lighter boxes and useful gear spread.

I spotted a pretty decent AM spec with Pinion and Rohloff options for about €3000, which is a steal if you ask me. Can't find any reviews in English unfortunately but the Cheetah Bikes website translates ok.

Did anybody else grate whenever they author said 'less gears' rather than 'fewer gears'?


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

As an A8 owner who feels Meh about it. I want to build an a11 for slight improvements on the things I really like about it.


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## TPA8580 (Apr 19, 2009)

I actually bought a Cheetah enduro with a Pinion she was delivered to me a couple of weeks ago. Reason for going to the Pinion was that with the 1x11 drive trains the cassettes are becoming increasingly expensive and the derailleurs as well. The changes of ripping one off or the fact that you will have to change the cassette every so often was a reason for me to try the Pinion gear box. I will try and post a picture but it seems every time I post on it's upside down.


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## shwinboy (Jan 13, 2004)

TPA8580 said:


> I actually bought a Cheetah enduro with a Pinion she was delivered to me a couple of weeks ago. Reason for going to the Pinion was that with the 1x11 drive trains the cassettes are becoming increasingly expensive and the derailleurs as well. The changes of ripping one off or the fact that you will have to change the cassette every so often was a reason for me to try the Pinion gear box. I will try and post a picture but it seems every time I post on it's upside down.


So did you get one with 18, 11 or 9 speeds?


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## TPA8580 (Apr 19, 2009)

shwinboy said:


> So did you get one with 18, 11 or 9 speeds?


I have the 18 speed version when I bought mine the 9 version was just released and I didn't want to wait any longer. I'll probably change it for a 9 speed version someday but right now I'll stick with the 18 spd. version.


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## tatankainlondon (Apr 4, 2004)

TPA8580 said:


> I actually bought a Cheetah enduro with a Pinion she was delivered to me a couple of weeks ago. Reason for going to the Pinion was that with the 1x11 drive trains the cassettes are becoming increasingly expensive and the derailleurs as well. The changes of ripping one off or the fact that you will have to change the cassette every so often was a reason for me to try the Pinion gear box. I will try and post a picture but it seems every time I post on it's upside down.


Hi, would you mind posting your comments on the pinion gearbox itself?


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## TPA8580 (Apr 19, 2009)

So I have been using the my new Cheetah for a few months now and I have to see so far I am impressed. The first few months it toke some time to learn when to shift, the fact that you cannot under full load, is something that takes some getting used to. I have to say that it has actually improved my skill a little as it makes you even more aware when you have to shift. 
There is one thing I have still get used to and that is how quiet it is, I catch myself looking down to see if I still have a chain lol. 
The main concern I had was the chain tensioning device. It looks rather fragile but I have to say it has held up rather beautifully. The only time the chain fell off was when I made a mistake by not putting the device in the right setting.
Weight their is no getting away from the weight. It's their but less noticeable than I had thought, I like the fact that it is dead centre of the bike. 
Shifting is smooth way better than any derailleur setup I ever had and after some pretty muddy months here, the system doesn't require me much in the way of cleaning it. Just lube the chain get rid of some mud and off we go. 
All in all I have to say I'm not regretting the fact that I jumped on the gearbox bandwagon so to speak.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

TPA8580 said:


> Weight their is no getting away from the weight. It's their but less noticeable than I had thought, I like the fact that it is dead centre of the bike.


That's why frame bags are popular now -- it's for a good reason. Especially when cranking out of the saddle, think of the line between your stem and your bottom bracket spindle (essentially the down tube). When you put the power down, everything is more or less being twisted around that center line. That's where the mass should go.

Gears? Put them there.
Gear? Put as much as you can fit there.
Water? Put it there as much as you can.

It quickly becomes a real estate game.

Glad you're enjoying your bike, can't wait until I get a Pinion.


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## tatankainlondon (Apr 4, 2004)

Did you guys know what Pinion refuses to provide pricing for the gearboxes (every model) to individual clients?

I find this highly annoying. Whilst I inquired with them about the pricing purely from my own interest point of view. An answer where _"..unfortunately I can´t give you a price for the gear-boxes just for the accessories..."_ and _"...The problem is, that you are not a manufacturer...."_ is simply unacceptable for me.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

tatankainlondon said:


> Did you guys know what Pinion refuses to provide pricing for the gearboxes (every model) to individual clients?
> 
> I find this highly annoying. Whilst I inquired with them about the pricing purely from my own interest point of view. An answer where _"..unfortunately I can´t give you a price for the gear-boxes just for the accessories..."_ and _"...The problem is, that you are not a manufacturer...."_ is simply unacceptable for me.


I agree that aspect is frustrating. I hope that changes as they produce increasing numbers of them.

I'd wager it would be more expensive than a Rohloff. Basically that plus a correspondingly sophisticated set of cranks.


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## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

TPA8580 said:


> So I have been using the my new Cheetah for a few months now and I have to see so far I am impressed. The first few months it toke some time to learn when to shift, the fact that you cannot under full load, is something that takes some getting used to. I have to say that it has actually improved my skill a little as it makes you even more aware when you have to shift.
> There is one thing I have still get used to and that is how quiet it is, I catch myself looking down to see if I still have a chain lol.
> The main concern I had was the chain tensioning device. It looks rather fragile but I have to say it has held up rather beautifully. The only time the chain fell off was when I made a mistake by not putting the device in the right setting.
> Weight their is no getting away from the weight. It's their but less noticeable than I had thought, I like the fact that it is dead centre of the bike.
> ...


I have damaged my tensioner but it has been smacked by a few good sized rocks so I can't blame it. It has actually been redesigned slightly too. My original tensioner has a bolt that has a number of holes around it for the spring to fit into. This is the part that broke. It is easily fixed though as it can be rotated around for the spring to fit into a new hole and I did this. The new version only has 4 holes without the smaller holes in between. The biggest problem was even though the bolt has it's own part number I had to but a whole tensioner.

A few other parts have been redesigned since I bought the original version too.

The Pinion is a brilliant unit though. Shifting through corners, at a standstill, without pedalling makes a huge difference to using deraileurs. I'm often shifting two gears at a time so I'd like to try the 12 or 9 speed gearbox to check out the ratios.


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## TPA8580 (Apr 19, 2009)

Yeah I really love my Pinion, but I have to say that indeed the 12 or 9 speed is looking mighty interesting as they are a bit lighter and I find that the 18 speed is a bit too much. Personally I think the 12 speed would be enough. Cheetah is willing to sell me the 9 or 12 speed and I'll keep the 18speed for my future touring bike.


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## tatankainlondon (Apr 4, 2004)

TPA8580 said:


> Yeah I really love my Pinion, but I have to say that indeed the 12 or 9 speed is looking mighty interesting as they are a bit lighter and I find that the 18 speed is a bit too much. Personally I think the 12 speed would be enough. Cheetah is willing to sell me the 9 or 12 speed and I'll keep the 18speed for my future touring bike.


Would you mind letting us know their prices? I have tried to get these prices directly from Pinion but failed miserably (see my post above).


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## TPA8580 (Apr 19, 2009)

Will do, although they will probably only sell you one if you have one of their bikes. As you have already stated they do not sell to private buyers only to manufacturers at this time.


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## tatankainlondon (Apr 4, 2004)

Thanks. This is just to know the cost as they will not sell it to me anyway.
So far I worked out that the P 1.18 costs around €1700 (price difference between Nicolai frames with and without pinion).


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## TPA8580 (Apr 19, 2009)

Check out this bad boy from the Guys from Nicolai. Exklusiv: Erste Bilder vom Nicolai ION GPI Enduro. I hope this will be a after market kit that I can put on my bike. But knowing my luck it probably will not work on just any frame an the frame has to be specially made to fit.


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## tatankainlondon (Apr 4, 2004)

TPA8580 said:


> Check out this bad boy from the Guys from Nicolai. Exklusiv: Erste Bilder vom Nicolai ION GPI Enduro. I hope this will be a after market kit that I can put on my bike. But knowing my luck it probably will not work on just any frame an the frame has to be specially made to fit.


WoooooW!!!!!


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## TPA8580 (Apr 19, 2009)

What I cannot make out if the tension device is part of the gearbox or attached to the frame.


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## TPA8580 (Apr 19, 2009)

So just heard back the P1.12 in black silver or blue would be €1199 and the P1.9 in Black, Blue or Silver would be €1099. I have also asked what the extra charge would be for a purple version as I have a purple version, but I'm guessing that be €50-100 extra.


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## tatankainlondon (Apr 4, 2004)

TPA8580 said:


> What I cannot make out if the tension device is part of the gearbox or attached to the frame.


I would be interested in finding out this as well. I like how Nicolai incorporated the Gates belt. I cannot get over the weight, though. 16.4kg is more than a modern downhill bike.... :madman:



TPA8580 said:


> So just heard back the P1.12 in black silver or blue would be €1199 and the P1.9 in Black, Blue or Silver would be €1099. I have also asked what the extra charge would be for a purple version as I have a purple version, but I'm guessing that be €50-100 extra.


Many thanks for getting the prices. This is very much appreciated.


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## SADDLE TRAMP (Aug 26, 2010)

Does anyone know the chain-line figure of their offset chain ring for fat bikes? 

They state a Q factor of 214, but have been unable to ascertain the chain-line number. 

My thanks in advance.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm curious to know the material of the cogs (gears) inside. Is it steel?

Reason why I ask? weight weenie action. I counted 23 external bolts, if they are all steel, can be upgrade to Titanium - about *30g* saved

Cogs (gears), if its steel...perhaps some after market custom Titanium cogs could drop a huge amount of weight...just by looking inside the box, I'd say....*200g* less?.....also......carbon crankarms??

P1.9 is advertised having 2200g (is that with shifter and cables?) - 200g - 30g = 1970g. Put that on a hardtail carbon frame (800g), so 1970g + 800 = *2770g*...Ideally on a carbon XC FS..so that would be a 1500g or so frame....but someone still needs to make them. Quantor is already making a carbon hardtail:
https://www.quantor-bikes.com/KOLLEKTION/TRIEBWERK-10-0::41.html

I'm just setting up my future plans here...

Some other curious information: my entire 2x10 drivetrain system weight 1110g, That's for:
cassette/RD/FD/S-works Crankset 22-38 /Front der hanger/Front and Rear Shifters).

My 2011 Scott Spark carbon frame with shock is 1815g. 1815g + 1110g (my drivetrain) = *2925g*

In theory: 1500g FS carbon frame gearbox enable + 1970g =* 3470g*

3470g - 2925g (my current setup) = 545g weight penalty...I could live with that....well I forgot the rear wheel cog for the gear box...how much does that weight?


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Can anyone share with me a blueprint (technical drawing) of the 'pinion receiver plate' with all the bolts placements the is attached to the frame? Or somewhere where I can find this information? Also...is it standard for all pinion boxes?


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## SADDLE TRAMP (Aug 26, 2010)

Sand Rat said:


> Does anyone know the chain-line figure of their offset chain ring for fat bikes?
> 
> They state a Q factor of 214, but have been unable to ascertain the chain-line number.
> 
> My thanks in advance.


After more looking...the part # for the offset sprocket is followed with - (170mm) so, I assume that indicates the use for 170 dropouts. Chain line should be in the 71-72mm range(?)


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