# First XP-G R5 impressions



## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Someone (who isn't tied by the non disclosure) on Candlepowerforums got there hands on some XP-G R5's and has been giving some first hand impressions. Sounds like these little buggers are putting off some heat. Some interesting beam shots.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243748


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## Huxley555 (May 24, 2009)

Yes!! about time, looks more floody and less of a spot than the r2 and requires good heat sinking but more importantly a better battery, this should be a screamer for those of us going down the bike light option. :thumbsup: 

Can't wait to see what these manage in trouties liberator. :eekster:


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Huxley555 said:


> Yes!! about time,
> 
> Can't wait to see what these manage in trouties liberator. :eekster:


Speaking of which, where are your beam shots Troutie. If some bloke ordering 3 has got his already, surely you do too.

C'mon mate, beam shots


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Speaking of which, where are your beam shots Troutie. If some bloke ordering 3 has got his already, surely you do too.
> 
> C'mon mate, beam shots


I am just waiting real chilled and laid back as they will arrive when they do

:madman: If you :incazzato: believe that :incazzato: then you are ut: than me but I have the :band: on stand by for when they do arrive ,


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## roadie_scum (May 17, 2008)

Ok...I've got a couple triple XPG's coming (plus a handful of singles to play with...). What's the best driver/battery combo to run a dual-triple XPG? Should be epic!


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

scar said:


> Someone (who isn't tied by the non disclosure) on Candlepowerforums got there hands on some XP-G R5's and has been giving some first hand impressions. Sounds like these little buggers are putting off some heat. Some interesting beam shots.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243748


the guy testing the XP-G's says the LED's suck 2Amps??! Isn't it supposed to run at 1A maximum, or is the LED in over current?


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

guys dont be on trout, the guy walked in 1 minute behind the fedex delivery guy with R5, just fortunate for him, trouts order is being packed as we speak

(yes we are working all weekend to clear backorders, yes if you ordered R4 you will be upgraded to R5 automatically)


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## stu44 (Mar 28, 2007)

Thanks for the Update Welight. Its great to get the info straight from the source

Im highly anticipating the arival of these little puppies


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

WeLight said:


> guys dont be on trout, the guy walked in 1 minute behind the fedex delivery guy with R5, just fortunate for him, trouts order is being packed as we speak
> 
> (yes we are working all weekend to clear backorders, yes if you ordered R4 you will be upgraded to R5 automatically)


that's the best news I've had all weekend!!!

PMSL at Trouties :band: !!!!!


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Huxley555 said:


> Yes!! about time, looks more floody and less of a spot than the r2 and requires good heat sinking but more importantly a better battery, this should be a screamer for those of us going down the bike light option. :thumbsup:


It needs less heatsinking as it has a lower Vf, so uses less power. Also more of the power is converted to light rather than heat. The package has lower thermal resistance so with the same heatsinking the housing may be warmer (but the LED cooler!).

If being direct driven then the lower Vf means more current = more heat.

The die is bigger and has lower surface brightness so yes it needs bigger optics. I'm skeptical about how well the 10mm ones will work. Likely ok for MTB but not so good for roadies. I am thinking about a s

I think these guys will be happy at 1.2A 400lm.
Troutie the quad + maxflex =1600lm


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## Huxley555 (May 24, 2009)

Wasn't the guy only able to get 320lm from 1.53a though, im aware it has lower vf but it seems to hit a limit where more voltage meant more heat rather than light.

Im sure there will be much more to be had from it, just a question of them playing around with it.

I really do hope it'll manage 400lm from 1.2a. :thumbsup:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Huxley555 said:


> Wasn't the guy only able to get 320lm from 1.53a though, im aware it has lower vf but it seems to hit a limit where more voltage meant more heat rather than light.


I think there were mounting/heatsinking issues. No idea where his lumen values are coming from either.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

znomit said:


> I think there were mounting/heatsinking issues. No idea where his lumen values are coming from either.


My thoughts exactly, not to mention throwing 2A at it and expecting something good to happen. My only worry is that the current offering of optics will not give us a defined "thrower" *choice. ( * and OH, how I hope I am wrong about that..) If that is so, like the MC-E we might have to wait for someone to build a more collective optic/reflector for the xp-g. Regardless, in the meantime we're gonna see some fine builds for the bars with tons of spill and lots of run time.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

WeLight said:


> guys dont be on trout, the guy walked in 1 minute behind the fedex delivery guy with R5, just fortunate for him, trouts order is being packed as we speak
> 
> (yes we are working all weekend to clear backorders, yes if you ordered R4 you will be upgraded to R5 automatically)


Thanks Welight for the update , I wonder which will get here first leds or the Maxflex`s as George is out of stock again


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Lumen test data up for an R5.

:drumroll: :drumroll: :drumroll:

400 lm at 3.3v, 1.2A

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3115908&postcount=354


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*Got mine yesterday*

Man these things are small.


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

25 of the little critters arrived today!! I never knew they were going to be this small! Soldering them is gonna be fun!

:band:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

bloody hell Andrew Why did you not get them on the square boards for an easy life.


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

Haha!
My thoughts exactly! As there will be 24 of them, I want them to be mounted directly to the body to get rid of the heat. I have made a jig on the lathe to hold them while the AA sets. Need to find the thinest wire possible to carry 700mA a distance of 10mm. The thinner the wire, the easier it'll be to solder. 




I hope! :skep: 
I have a novel way of cooling the light, more in a future thread.......


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Raw emitters................. :eekster: 
That's insane. :madman: 
Good luck with that and know that is something that most of us would never do with any of the XP series of emitters.........:thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:band::band:









Well finally got the buggers after a 60 mile drive to the mail depot to save 2 days more waiting .

Now got to wait for some Maxflex`s from George :cryin:

Cant wait for the dark to come now


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Good for you.

Hopefully in a day or two they will make it to us here in Texas.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

WOW great LED collection you have there trout! are you going to light up those 100XPG at once? :devil:


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

Yeah... light up 100 of them at the sametime... that would be AWESOME!!


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## Huxley555 (May 24, 2009)

Nice one mate, i did wonder if that was the reason for your going quiet on the forums today.


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## 02Slayer (Mar 5, 2004)

Man Troutie, you DO NOT mess around. That is serious business.
Are those emitters on the grid for that sea of toutlets?


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Good man troutie, now I can pester you for some dimensions if you don't mind.
Mine havn't arrived due to the UK post strikes can you please tell me the size of the 7up optic( cutter say 40mm, Khatod say 39mm) and also the thickness and diameter of the 7up MCPCB.
Thanks.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Huxley555 said:


> Nice one mate, i did wonder if that was the reason for your going quiet on the forums today.


Been busy getting stuff done for some beam shots as Maxflexs are a bit scarce at the moment I had to recycle a couple from my existing lights

O2slayer 
Yep they will be when the drivers arrive

With my none digital vernier 
the board is 39 mm

and the optic is also 39 mm

and the stack height is a tad over 13 mm

the legs protrude through the board and need grinding down

some beam shots all at 1000ma

4 xpe R2 narrow optics








4 xpg R5 narrow optics









6 xpe R2 4 narrow & 2 eliptical optics









6 xpg R5 4 narrow & 2 medium










and finally the 7up xpg with 6 degree optic .


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

Nice pics Chris
What do you think of them?


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Thanks for that Troutie, now that you have seen the output in person do you think the increase is significant?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

WeLight said:


> Nice pics Chris
> What do you think of them?


Cheers Mark

they are certainly a tad wider beam then the xpes were but I think that is a good thing in both the lights I have tried and the downwards spill from my light round the front wheel is excellent.

on the 7 up it is pretty awesome out in woods 
does look a bit ringy on the wall around the outside but not a problem in use on the trails .
it is a nice package VF was 23.2 v @ 1000ma so gets in nicely for the maxflex.

feel free to use the photos on your site


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Cheers Mark
> 
> they are certainly a tad wider beam then the xpes were but I think that is a good thing in both the lights I have tried and the downwards spill from my light round the front wheel is excellent.
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris
The low vf is a real benefit of these for battery based apps


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## kinda666 (Jun 27, 2008)

Welight, is the carlco 20mm triple narrow lens FWHM 16.4 going to be the tightest optic for this application?? 
Got the SS cute optic with a 35mm xpg triple too and the throw on that is superb, but the 20mm is too wide IMO :sad:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Troutie...Great beam pics. Looks like fall has come to the U.K as well. To those not in know I sure those photos would of looked much brighter if it hadn't been for all the dark/scattered leaves on the ground. The 4-up would of looked more like the 6-up, 6-up like the 7-up..etc.
Really hard to tell the XP-E's from the XP-G's except for a bit more spill with the XP-G's and a tad cooler tint with the R-5 binning. I can't help wondering what a XP-G R-2 bin would look like. Can't wait to see a quad set up with xp-g's using some tighter optics for helmet use. Do you plan on experimenting with other bin's and optics(?) if so what 's next on the menu ?...:ihih: ...I'll keep the popcorn warm.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Troutie...Great beam pics. Looks like fall has come to the U.K as well. To those not in know I sure those photos would of looked much brighter if it hadn't been for all the dark/scattered leaves on the ground. The 4-up would of looked more like the 6-up, 6-up like the 7-up..etc.
> Really hard to tell the XP-E's from the XP-G's except for a bit more spill with the XP-G's and a tad cooler tint with the R-5 binning. I can't help wondering what a XP-G R-2 bin would look like. Can't wait to see a quad set up with xp-g's using some tighter optics for helmet use. Do you plan on experimenting with other bin's and optics(?) if so what 's next on the menu ?...:ihih: ...I'll keep the popcorn warm.


Cheers Cat

If there were tighter optics I would give them a whirl I guess we now wait for them 
like the MCE scenario

Though I have tried the quad on the helmet and it is real sweet beam with plenty of throw 
and spill I would happily ride with just that

though not ideal for the roadies I think


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## krog (Aug 27, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> :band::band:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi troutie,

could you make a closeup picture of the 7up board? There are so many pads, can the string be opened?

Bye Joerg


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)




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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

kinda666 said:


> Welight, is the carlco 20mm triple narrow lens FWHM 16.4 going to be the tightest optic for this application??
> Got the SS cute optic with a 35mm xpg triple too and the throw on that is superb, but the 20mm is too wide IMO :sad:


Im in the hands of Carclo, they will need to release a newer version I suspect. Why dont you pop up some beamshots of the cute's, the folks would be very interested Im sure


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## Rich_SC (Oct 10, 2009)

Hey Trout...is the 7up housing from a milled solid piece or is it pipe stock? What's your wall thickness at the LED end?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Rich_SC said:


> Hey Trout...is the 7up housing from a milled solid piece or is it pipe stock? What's your wall thickness at the LED end?


Rich it was a solid bar 44 mm dia 
just machined out to whack in the 7 up for a quick beam shot .
too busy at the moment to do a complete housing and no maxflexs left hense the cobbled up affair below


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## Rich_SC (Oct 10, 2009)

HaHa! Nice...

I found these heatsinks (5mm base, 1.5cm fins) at cutter for the 20mm triple...from the photo do you think it would give better heat transfer than a 1cm thick round alu slug? Looking at a dinotte style light with the housing milled to be in contact with the rim of the black heatsink. I think I may have issues with getting the heat to the housing...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Better with the solid slug for more contact with the casing


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## ireland57 (Sep 11, 2009)

Troutie,

what are the unmarked solder pads in front of each led? There are the - and + pads then the unmarked ones.


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## Rich_SC (Oct 10, 2009)

what's your guesstamation of actual lumens for the 7up compared to some of your other lights?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ireland57 said:


> Troutie,
> 
> what are the unmarked solder pads in front of each led? There are the - and + pads then the unmarked ones.


Not sure what they are had a poke with a MM and they dont seem to connnect to anywhere

Rich 
I would say from using it when dogwalking it is all you would ever want from a bike light .
with the 6 degree optic it is like a wall of light way better than the insane quad MCE in useability.and a nicer throw too

I would have liked to see a beam from the XPEs too

what would be cool and I think it is doable would be to cut the traces and run 2 cheap drivers and have a 3 and 4 or all 7


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

ireland57 said:


> Troutie,
> what are the unmarked solder pads in front of each led? There are the - and + pads then the unmarked ones.





troutie-mtb said:


> Not sure what they are had a poke with a MM and they dont seem to connnect to anywhere


Do the traces run under the led? If so, they may be locations to take temperature measurements of the LED's.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

With the leaves that'll be on the trails soon around here all riding will require the force


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

While we are all doing these multi led hi power lights has anyone thought to do a single XPG light .

with this in mind I set up a test rig to see what one was capable of .
I only had the 10 mm carclo optics to hand so here are the beamshots










first up the eliptical not too keen as a stand alone light 
be ok for a head light for working with










frosted medium










narrow flat front










narrow lens front










the xpg was driven at 1000 ma


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

A single should be enough to ride with, but it depends on what your riding mates have, get a 6 x XP-G setup then ride behind your mates that'll make there lights seem off 

Then they'll all upgrade to more lumens and so the arms race will continue!!


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> narrow lens front
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! Now I can start to imagine how 24 of these will look. What was the throw like? May have to angle the bottom row down or run some of the eliptical lenses on thier sides to get some light closer to the front wheel. 
Or permission to use the Liberator tecnique.......!


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## rootes1 (Nov 24, 2008)

roadie_scum said:


> What's the best driver/battery combo to run a dual-triple XPG? Should be epic!


you eveer get any advice on this?

ta
Si


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Wow I will have to order some of the lens front 10mm soon. I had assumed that with the exact beam angle listed the two narrow lens would look so different. The lens front is clearly outperforming the flat from with the xp-g.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Where can I get the *Forward Current (mA) vs Forward Voltage (V)* graph for XPG?
Cree didn't put it in the data sheet.


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## rootes1 (Nov 24, 2008)

sergio_pt said:


> Where can I get the *Forward Current (mA) vs Forward Voltage (V)* graph for XPG?
> Cree didn't put it in the data sheet.


correct, but it does give three points in the characteristic chart - bung that into excel

350mA = 3vf
700mA = 3.2vf
1000mA = 3.3vf

Si


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Here you go.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3115908&postcount=354


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## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

Those are good measurments just remember they are from just one Led. I expect there will be a bit of variation, that one may be a low high or middeling example....

Ifor


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

thanks for the infos!

CREE mailed me the updated XP-G data sheet which includes the mA vs Vf characteristics and its now updated in the website too. http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXP-G.pdf


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Troutie,
Exactly what do you mean by "narrow lense front" and "narrow flat front" ?

from the pics the narrow lense front is clearly the better for helmet mounting. I'm thinking of using these on a Cutter 25mm round quad board. By my calcs they should just fit the LEDs and still squeeze inside the 25mm housing, after trimming one corner off each optic. Atleast then I caan mix and match and get a better beam pattern than the Quad optics appear to offer




Edit: added "after trimming one corner off each optic"


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

bikerjay said:


> Wow I will have to order some of the lens front 10mm soon. I had assumed that with the exact beam angle listed the two narrow lens would look so different. The lens front is clearly outperforming the flat from with the xp-g.


*Troutie*, thanks for that single optics comparison. I agree with *bikerjay* and *emu26* that the lens front optic looks to be the better choice for throw. Hopefully a triple and quad version of this optic will come out soon.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Is the "narrow flat front" actually the "plain medium" listed on cutters site and the "narrow lens front" the "tight narrow"?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

The 10417 is the used to be tight narrow lens front 16.4 fwhm

and the 10412 plain medium is the flat front 16.5 fwhm 



The 10417 does give a better throw than its brother . though I mix the 2 for a good spread as well I find that now we have all these lumens to play with we can get away from hotspots and have a wall of even light that still goes far down the trail .


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks Chris,
Those beam shots have made me a lot happier


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