# Riding Position - stems & bars on single vs double crown forks



## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

With the new fork on I am now thinking about my riding position I don't want to jump into anything yet I am still just getting the feel of the bike with the fork on it.........
What are you Guys running as far as stem length and rise and are you on a flat or riser bar?
Also is your fork a single or double crown and 26 or 29er? 

I went from a stock 110mm with stock fork to a 100mm 10 degree with stock fork and that felt much better but now with that same stem 100mm 10 degree and the new fork I feel that I need to go to a shorter stem


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

What you feel is possibly the change in geometry to the entire front end. Likely you have raised the front AND changed the forks offset, resulting in trail dimension changes.

Being single or double should make no difference. For us, 26 vs 29, I opted to have a similar position on the bike, however, I did find I was less adaptable to wrong position on the 29. Again, my thought is the trail dimension was just never comfy like a 26 for me. With the proper stem length, and I rode a lot of different stems until I found what worked best, the bike became a good balance between nimble handling and light feel in the bars.

Trail geometry dimension is a lot more critical than many bicycle folks realize.

PK


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Now you got me thinking maybe I should take it down to 90mm and see how that feels.
As of right now the BB in the rear is 13" from ground to center and the front is 14.5" from ground to center....


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Those measurements are with you both on the bike?


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Okayfine said:


> Those measurements are with you both on the bike?


My bad that was just the bike with me and my daughter it's 14"/13"


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Mike, what did you settle on?

PK


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

PMK said:


> Mike, what did you settle on?
> 
> PK


Well........ I made more changes I went to a 90mm 0 rise Thomson and went to a low riser front and back.
I had a mid riser on the front and the back was more of a high riser bike feels 100 times better now and I upgraded to a 31.8 stem/bar front end feels very stiff now.
I still need to do the Open Bath Mod and at that time I will take the fork down to 80mm and call it a day.

I had the **** scared out of my daughter and I on Sunday coming down hill at speed and hit a sandy section of the trail 
Now I have been on many single bikes and did the same thing but Wow 
what a ride lol........


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Yeah. BTDT. We have pretty sandy/rocky/loose soil out in these parts and, in the main, I know where the deep sand sections are. Every now and then one will surprise me. Has kept my speed down overall when we ride trails outside our usual haunt. Slow speeds it isn't much of a problem, thanks to the balloon tires.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Yes, amazing how much whip and sideways such a long bike can get into and recover from.:yikes:

PK


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

I guess We got Lucky and recovered from that now I know I need to get on the brakes sooner for that downhill or any other sandy sections :eekster:


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

XC Mike said:


> I guess We got Lucky and recovered from that now I know I need to get on the brakes sooner for that downhill or any other sandy sections :eekster:


Before you go the braking route, try this.

Your daughter seems to be old enough, large enough to have an impact on how the bike handles.

Two options and no middle ground.

Method one, have her clamp the seat as tightly as possible with her legs. Kind of like the Suzanne Sommers thigh master exercise. Hang her butt off the back slightly, less weight forward. This is obviously while not pedaling.

Method two, she needs to ride loose and let the bike move around. can be scary for a stoker, but doable. Problem with this is if she gets huck-a-bucked, all that body in motion will move the tandem worse.

Clamping the saddle adds stability, and lessens your effort in soft sand, riding loose will let you toss the bike around easier.

Try number one first, then see how it is with number two.

Hitting the brakes slows and kill momentum, making soft sand worse. The forward weight shift does not help either.

PK


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

PMK said:


> Hitting the brakes slows and kill momentum, making soft sand worse. The forward weight shift does not help either.


I see it like driving a 911 - get all your braking done before the corner/sand. If you hit the brakes in deep sand, you're probably going down.

That said, a Cannondale will have a lower center of gravity compared to the ECdM. Makes stuff like deep sand easier to deal with. Stoker generally doesn't know the sand is coming, so if you can keep the bike steady and keep the steering from wandering any you shouldn't have a problem.

The problem comes when the captain doesn't know the sand is coming :eekster:


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

PMK said:


> Before you go the braking route, try this.
> 
> Your daughter seems to be old enough, large enough to have an impact on how the bike handles.
> 
> ...


Thanks Paul we will try #1 next time we see sand or do the Fullerton Loop.
One of the first things I told my daughter about riding offroad is that we as a team need to stay lose on the bike when doing steep downhills with the pedals flat and her bottom off the seat so that she will not get bucked off.


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Okayfine said:


> The problem comes when the captain doesn't know the sand is coming :eekster:


That was the main reason.......... I guess I need to open my eyes on the downhills


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

We ride plenty of sand and can understand the concerns. You did say soft sand so this is different than hardpack with sand on top making it slippery.

Also, two others things to add, teach your daughter, if she doesn't already, do not lock the elbows. Elbows shoul be bent and elbows up.

Second, make sure she has her hands, wrists and forearm inline. Bent wrists can make for weird handling and sore wrists.

While sand can be a 911, for us, we try to carry as much speed and momentum into and through the sand and avoid any direction change or steering input.

The compromise of your tire selection also matters, some tires seemed very sketchy in sand, even though big knobbed.

PK


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Right now we are running 2.35 Kenda Nevegal that to me seam better then the WTB that we had


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