# Sharing GPS trail data for free



## jack22 (Sep 20, 2006)

I am willing to share my GPS mountain biking trails data for free with others willing to share their data. We can build an integrated national GPS data resource for public use. I am thinking along the lines of how the LINUX computer operating system was developed.

I have currently have a significant database from rides in western NC, and limited data for a few rides in Tennessee, West Virginia, New Hampshire, Vermont and Colorado. My current focus is on developing a comprehensive GPS based mapping and bike trails information database for western North Carolina. As much as I would like to, I will not attempt to ride even all the major trails in my area. This projet will require a collective effort which can be coordinated.

I live in western North Carolina and sometimes ride ride with a Garmin 60csx collecting location and elevation data every 1 or every 5 seconds. I have successfully imported and exported GPS data among various mapping systems including National Geographic's TOPO, Garmin's Mapsouurce, higher end GIS systems - MapInfo, and ESRI's ArcGIS, ArcInfo and ArcView.

I believe Mountain Bike Riders can form a data sharing network that will allow local users to experiment with and develop the best locally based uses for the information, such as, trail maintainence, rider down rescue, ground truth verified maps and others.


The various pay for access commercial web sites may provide a valuable service to some customers. But why are we working to collect GPS data which we pay for the privillege of giving them the data they turn around and sell back to us?

My biggest problem is the same as with many Web based commerce sites, they require a credit card number to gain access to any and all information.

I have paid my dues using Visa to find answers:

1. Do these sites actually have unique GPS information that is useful to me. (Some)

2. Do they provide a significant inventory and coverage of trails for the regions where I ride? (Not really and what they have is not integrated to make it more useful, very little added value)

3. Are the software tools user friendly and do they perform a function that is useful to me? (Some of the training/conditioning, performance monitoring and ride journals can be useful and fun.)

Public Access GPS data for mountain biking trails can coexist with comercial websites.Commercial web sites will have to work harder to add value to our information and develop innovative information tools and services.

Let's ride and share the data!:thumbsup:


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

trailcentral.com


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## Bill Payer (Mar 14, 2005)

this site seems pretty generous with the data for free guests...

http://trail.motionbased.com/

might be worth a look while you are shaping your idea/model.

p.s...Jack22, we could really use your help, we are planning a trip to Pisgah in November and searching for GPS trail data. I am not the "gps guy" in the group but I am sure we will be shooting you a note to see if he can sample some of your data.


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## Dave Ellis (Sep 3, 2006)

Hi Jack22,

I'm the GPS guy Bill Payer speaks of. I just purchased my Rino 120 in the spring of this year. I've learned quite a bit so far. I've just recently started working with MotionBased and it appears good. I fully agree with your opinions and would love to contribute to a "community organization". I don't know how valued you think I'd be considering the majority of my tracks would be of Canadian trail, with the exception of vacations like the one we have planned for Pisgah this November. Let me know what you think.


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## jack22 (Sep 20, 2006)

*Happy to share*

Bill Payer and Scar,

I'd be happy to share data, maps, local knowledge and our great trails with you. Perhaps a ride with friends from the up north, ehh?

We need to find a way to communicate and share information outside the general public forum. I think we can do some of this through this site. Have you enabled private messaging?

I will not be disclosing closely guarded local info that might lead to trail crowding. Why? We have more than enough trails and acerage for us all to enjoy and still have a few single track stashes.


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## Rickster (Feb 5, 2006)

How about something similar to Wikipedia where anyone can contribute or edit content.


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## Asahi (Jan 30, 2004)

http://www.sorbachattanooga.org/trails/trails.php

We hope to add GPS data to our Southeast trailguide (Probably in .gpx format). If you have something to add to the guide or data for us to post please feel free to let me know.


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## milroy (Jan 15, 2004)

http://www.bikely.com


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## jack22 (Sep 20, 2006)

*Yes, Let's Share and coordinate our efforts*

I am especially interested in working with SORBA and other Mtn Biking/Cycling organizations like SORBA who contribute so much to promoting Mtn Biking in the best sense while maintaining and working to preserve the special environment we enjoy riding in.

I have good GPS data collected in the field (aka while riding my butt off grinning ear to ear peddling up hills and cruising down em with a Garmin 60Csx attached somewhere). I am a GIS professional with more than 15 years experience. I am also developing one of the critical missing pieces in this picture puzzle.

Two primary data types are collected:
1.	Track points, that like a trail of bread crumbs, show where we have ridden.
2.	Waypoints that mark noteworthy point locations

Examples include, trail heads and trail intersections, especially tricky trail intersections. These waypoints have many potential applications including marking spots for trail maintenance, rider down info on best places for evac pick up and nearest points to a route out and clear cell phone communication spots, as well as tricky sections of trails and places to get water before or during a ride and environmentally sensitive areas. Points linked to opportunities and information for riders to learn about the natural environment they are riding in and areas of importance to events like public hearings where advocacy of our interest is an issue.

3.	Track points can be assembled to make routes.

At this point an important missing piece of the puzzle is quality digital base maps at a scale and level of detail needed and that is more useful to riders out on the trail. I am working on digital maps that will contribute.

This project and our efforts need coordination. The process of collecting and cataloging GPS data for public use will be far more efficient and the results more useful if we can provide documentation and simple instruction for how to make collecting data while riding and sharing that information easy and accurate.

I am in the process of learning about what works best, what is relatively easy to collect and useful, and most important, how riders can and do use this information along with what is needed and wanted.

In this forum, I am starting a dialog about GPS and mountain biking. I welcome opportunities to share and exchange thoughts and ideas among our mountain biking community. I would like to meet in person with riders interested in organizing and participating in this process, perhaps at a club meeting. Meeting out on out on the trail is an especially good place too.

"Those who are afraid to go too far will never know how far they can go."


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## jack22 (Sep 20, 2006)

*A good start, what about the base maps?*

Nice site.

A good start.

How are you planning to provide useful base maps in forested areas not covered by digital base maps not provided by sources really designed for sites like mapquest?

Please note that the vast majority of all enterprises in the US, such as Mapquest and Google Maps, use street map data from a very good company called GDT (Geographic Data Technologies based in Lebanon, New Hampshire) or other similar companies such as, ETAK. The digital maps on which we see most bike rout data overlaid, including Google Earth, which integrates Satellite imagery and aerial photos, are not designed for Mtn Biking maps.


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## jack22 (Sep 20, 2006)

*To all of you,Thanks for the sites*

Thanks for leading me to several good sites.

Many well thought out example of efforts to make good use of GPS dat for Mtn Bikers are out there.

I understand that these efforts require resources including financing to support development.


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## Rutnick (Nov 24, 2005)

Does anyone have a GPS of stanky creek with elevation changes?


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## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

Both Bikerag.com and Crankfire.com have all of Ct pretty well mapped out, as well as much of the surrounding areas. I know they are always looking for additional info, might give them a try.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Good Idea*

Several sites try to do what you say, but end up being incomplete and getting greedy with fees for the meeger data.

I can find GPX files on Motion Based by a search for area names. But you only get one rider's tracks on a particular route. You can't get a complete trail network and waypoints at intersections for a park.

Something is very much needed, but noone's getting it yet.


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## mdschm2 (Sep 30, 2006)

*In progress*

I was really excited to hear that you guys thought this was a good idea. Earlier this year, me and one of my friends came up with the idea for trails. We've buit a website for it, but so far, have only uploaded two trails. If you want to use the already built site to host the rest of your database, we would love it. Go to mtbgps.net to see the site. If you like it, email me. You'll find the contact info on the EMAIL page.

remember,

MTBGPS.net


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## mdschm2 (Sep 30, 2006)

BigLarry said:


> But you only get one rider's tracks on a particular route. You can't get a complete trail network and waypoints at intersections for a park.
> 
> Something is very much needed, but noone's getting it yet.


I couldn't agree more, and we are actually in the progress of doing this. While it does take a while, by mapping each trail individually and then creating a database for all the waypoints in a specific park, you can overlay them on a map to get incredible detail. We are in the process of doing this at MTBGPS.NET . While we only have two trails up (because the site is extremely new), the ability to expand is already there. It's very easy to add more trails and more data. AND ITS FREE! So if you like it and want to submit some information, visit the site and contact us!

Michael


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## Dave Ellis (Sep 3, 2006)

*progress!*

This sounds like an excellent start to something very cool! I'll share some tracks but you'll have to come to Canada to ride them. Better than nothing though...eh?


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*More trail sites - How about just improving MTBR Trail Reviews?*

Here's some other attempts:

http://www.trailregistry.com/trailregistry/index.jsp (early stages, very limited capabilty and few maps)

http://www.trails.com (Worst site on gouging users with fees, as bad as the rest on capability)

http://www.geoladders.com/overview.php (more SoCal region, well designed and also used for competve game)

Some are more hiking than biking oriented. Many suffer from issues cited by Jack22 and many others - meager data of limited areas of the country, no waypoints, poor search engines, poor trail descriptions and photo integration, lack of selection and sorting tools, lack of editing tools,...

I'm not even sure how to suggest they be improved. What I want is what I have on Garmin MapSource now: A list of 1000s of waypoints from all my rides so I can link them to make new routes. I want waypoints of trail heads especially, so I can find them in my car, and waypoints of trail intersections so I don't miss them. The only reason I'd want tracks is so I can figure out the distance and climb of a new route so I don't get in over my head. Trail descriptions and pictures and links to official park sites with PDF map pages would be great too.

I'd say the biggest problem each of the sites suffer from is the lack of GPS and trail data, then the lack of tools to use it anyway. I'm thinking now that of the most complete MTB trail reviews I've seen is on MTBR. Maybe we can just allow people to upload pictures, links, and GPX files to MTBR trail reviews in an organized fashion, and be done with it?


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

BigLarry said:


> I'm thinking now that of the most complete MTB trail reviews I've seen is on MTBR. Maybe we can just allow people to upload pictures, links, and GPX files to MTBR trail reviews in an organized fashion, and be done with it?


Great thought!! :idea:

Since so many of us are already here, what about getting FC and crew to work on the MTBR trails section to incorporate your suggestions? This is already *THE* Mountain Bike site on the Internet; lets add trails and GPS data and make it the ultimate trails / GPS site as well?!? :yesnod:


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## Shadowjack (Aug 15, 2006)

Google maps provides great base sat/vector maps to starts with, and mechanism to add overlays with paths and waypoints too. Add good management engine (search, filtering, etc), attract community, find how to fund project without membership fee - and ultimate gps/mtb site is here.
BTW, http://www.bikely.com looks quite good. The features missing are trails overlay and waypoints tags/types/filtering.


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## Shadowjack (Aug 15, 2006)

Very quick-and-dirty proof of concept:
http://shadowjack.ifastnet.com/
Report bugs, if any found.


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## ElHombre (Apr 19, 2004)

I just stumbled upon this thread and wanted to mention that we're working on a similar thing: mtbguru.com
The idea is to share GPS data and photos that are automatically georeferenced, and display them in Google Maps as well as Earth - everything is free and will remain so. We tried to keep things look very basic and simple to use. GPX files, photos, trip descriptions, links and comments can be shared (but can also be kept private) - waypoint management, full search and a 'friends' feature are planned but not implemented yet.
An example of it being applied to a NorCal mtbr ride is in this thread. Comments and suggestions are always welcome! I may start another thread showing some screenshots...


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## Nathan Cloud (Jul 18, 2005)

This is my kind of thread!

9.8m/s/s pointed my site (www.crankfire.com) out (thanks ) - and I thought I should elaborate on it a little because everything in this post is what I am working towards. We are non profit (not legally official yet because I am still losing money and I am too lazy to visit the taxman) and maintain a noncommercial "Share and Share Alike" Creative Commons license for everything uploaded into the system, though we do request attribution unless waived.

I like to refer to the site as a Connecticut based, New England focused site accepting GPX data from anywhere in the US. We have a hierarchal approach to the data in hopes of keeping gpx tracks, waypoints, photos and "wiki points" all neat and tidy. And I like to think it seems to be working out pretty well. Tracks and waypoints are associated with trails, photos can be associated with trails, tracks, waypoints, users, etc. etc.. For an example, check out our Middlesex trail record.

All of this data then culminates to our mapping engine(s) I wrote up my own mapping engine in addition to a google maps mapper (which I am currently rewriting). Lastly, we offer the ability to download GPX and KML files.

To address Big Larrys dream system, we handle a lot of that:

A list of waypoints from all my rides so I can link them to make new routes = We collect waypoints  and using our wiki thing you can click away on our mapper and then download a GPX route file of your handywork. Or use our new roll-your-own tool and jam any combination of tracks and waypoints into a downloadable gpx or kml file 

I want waypoints of trail heads especially, so I can find them in my car = If anyone posts up a new trail, I bug them to get me trailheads/parking areas. I always felt this was very important. Photos too. On the map below, look and click the parking icons







.

Waypoints of trail intersections so I don't miss them = The Wiki thing does this, catch is users have to provide/enter them. If you look at the map below, you will see a handful of







icons, click on them and you will get description (photos can also be associated with them)

Trail descriptions and pictures = Trails entered on our system are user provided, and more are pretty well described, not all. A comments system beyond this fills in the holes. In theory.

links to official park sites with PDF map pages would be great too. = Under each trail we maintain an user built external sites list. 

*Take a look at this map*

Overall, I think I have a little further to go as far as simplicity is concerned, and i think my waypoint wiki thing has potential, it just might be a little confusing  And the one thing that I have yet to figure out is how to take all the track data we have and create a nice clean trail network - more or less exactly what Topofusion does - basically merge all the separate tracks together so the trail lines are clean and i.d. where they intersect.

To address the original intention of this post, I am all for anything that provides bikers with the tools to go out and have fun, all on a noncommercial basis of course. So please keep me posted!

Ok, sorry for the long post - this is something very near and dear to me , so I could not help myself.


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## revrnd (Aug 13, 2004)

Why not just post your tracks on MTBR?


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## SSINGA (Dec 23, 2003)

Asahi said:


> http://www.sorbachattanooga.org/trails/trails.php
> 
> We hope to add GPS data to our Southeast trailguide (Probably in .gpx format). If you have something to add to the guide or data for us to post please feel free to let me know.


That would be a great addition to your trail guide - especially if you could add some of the features found on the crankfire site. I just got a 60csx that I'm dying to play with.


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## trailchaser (Dec 26, 2006)

*New site*

I've been working on a web site for this type of thing and I'd be thrilled if you gave it a try.
www.trailchaser.com

best wishes in 2007!


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

I posted about uploading GPS tracks to the Trails section of MTBR in the Site Feedback forum. Mike G thinks it is a good idea, and I referred him to this thread. If anyone has any comments for the admins, the thread in Site Feedback is here.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

All of you guys working on websites have some nice ideas and sites going. Maybe you would be willing to share your skills and ideas with MTBR? Having 4, 6, 9, or 12 regional sites is ok, but having _one _ site like MTBR would be even better, in my (not so humble ) opinion.

Maybe there could be links from the specific area MTBR trails back to each of the websites that have been mentioned by the developers here? I'm just throwing out ideas.

In a post above (#18), BigLarry mentions being able to upload multiple tracks to build a trail network for an area. That would be very useful for anyone going to a new place to ride, but just downloading tracks, and especiaqlly waypoints to a trailhead.

I'm sure others have more ideas!?


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## Nathan Cloud (Jul 18, 2005)

trailchaser said:


> I've been working on a web site for this type of thing and I'd be thrilled if you gave it a try.
> www.trailchaser.com
> 
> best wishes in 2007!


Good looking site  Nice and clean!


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## slip (Nov 1, 2006)

crankfire and trailchaser both look great. love the waypoints and basemaps on crankfire.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

MTBR.com is in _beta testing_ on this idea! :thumbsup:

Post some uploads and comments - let 'em know we *want* this!


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