# Downhill bike ban/exclusion proposal - pinnacle of stupidity



## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

So,

as often happens when I'm out traveling, I pick up a copy of Mountainbike Fiction. I'm usually only mildly annoyed by the biased testing (aka advertising) and the general intellectual level of the writing, but this time I nearly choked on my (inflight) peanuts: they appear to be suggesting that downhill bikes should be labelled as such, and excluded from certain trail areas. Their argument is basically that it is the downhillers who are out building illegal trails, and that the backlash will hurt all bikers.  

Apart from the blatant generalization (/discrimination), the idea is incredibly badly thought out. A badge on the head tube (that would be...wait for it....RIVETED to the frame...yes!) would identify a bike "for closed course use only". Then what? Some dude at the trailhead "sorry mate, you can't ride that bike here". Say what? Can you imagine the level of conflict this would now create (as if multiuse issues weren't already bad enough, what with bikers, hikers, and horses...now they would create a biker sub-species that EVERYBODY can pick on - how convenient!) :madman: 

And I guess they haven't realized just how hard you can ride an "all-mountain" bike these days... :cornut: 

Does this remind anybody of the good old days when certain ski resorts were closed for snowboarding? That worked out well for them.  

They can try to disguise this in any way they want, the truth of it is that these kinds of ideas come from bigoted old men who can't muster up the balls to hit a 3-foot drop, and who simply don't like the "extreme" side of the sport. Well here's the deal: we are all equally guilty of riding where we are not supposed to from time to time. And you are the guys who freakin started it! Don't try to make downhill the scapegoat of the landaccess wars - how very convenient to leave us to rot, while you strike a deal with the administration by selling out on us! 

Attached the article for your reading "pleasure".


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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

Gotta love the cross country fools that think they run mountain biking


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## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

Then wouldn't all the downhillers go get some short travel bikes and ride the same way they would on a DH bike?

Would this be similar to banning trail running on hiking trails?


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## DucJ (Aug 14, 2009)

Elitist Dix..


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

that magazine is the most stupid one ever....attacking the very same sport that they are supposed to be about. what about this; if they want to 'discriminate' why dont they start with their own publication, and publish no articles about FR/DH riding, no using photos of FR/DH bikes or riding on their cover either, and of course, no paid advertising from companies that sell that kind of products, life style, or discipline.....I wonder how long would it be till they get out of business.
Freeride biking, is what saved mountain biking in the 90's, from fading into a sport in the category of roller blading or ping pong!


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## ruralrider528 (Nov 8, 2008)

Their spandex is starting to chafe and they're becoming irritable  I wonder how many xc trails weren't legal a few years ago.


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## cbc (Apr 16, 2006)

Sooooo..... just because I ride a big bike, means I'm blazing new trails? 

And of my two bikes, a Santa Cruz Bullit, and a Santa Cruz Super 8, would both be "closed course only" bikes because they are long travel? 

Maybe XC bikes should be closed course only too. Too stiff, upright, and incredibly light, and apparently makes you wear spandex. We don't want to see that on the trail! 

Anyway, where I ride in a state park, and where the hikers have tried to ban biking every once in a while, I wonder if it's prudent to call out the hikers who are off-trail. From what I've seen, it's everyone who is guilty; it's just the different use groups who for some reason can't get along. Articles like this certainly don't help our sport; if it was publicized in our local paper, the other groups would just prefer to attempt to ban biking again overall. 

What were they thinking.


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## nostrangertodanger (Feb 15, 2008)

yeah here in Hemet we have a war goin on with a trail troll, who built tons of xc type trail (illegal). but has no skillz or fun involved. but he has destroyed our 1 dh run in his precious park and started a coalitition against dh. I'll just keep build'em as he will tear down...just BS.


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## cbc (Apr 16, 2006)

Does this happen to be the April issue? Just hoping it's a joke!


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## jhazard (Aug 16, 2004)

Government agencies? This must be a joke...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

IMO

that is the last straw

man we all need to boycott that magazine

that is my signature now

it is really funny and very hypocritical ...effing hypocritical that this same magazine would say we shouldn't be on illegal DH trails but half the pictures in the magazine where on the very same trails they said they shouldn't be on.

In fact every month, they take pics on illegal trails...effing hypocritical....they are scum for writing this article...they can't have it both ways

Boycott MBA....ask your local shop to stop selling it


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## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Penis envy, plain and simple. 

What they propose will never come to pass, for it would require the participation of those they so blatantly discriminate against. To be perfectly honest, it doesn't surprise me and it doesn't really bother me that much.


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## 62kona (Mar 25, 2008)

I'm cool with boycotting them. I never liked that mag anyways. Too much spandex for me. And that article is ********.


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

What a load of BS.


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

Who's the author? 

Sure, it's not exactly legit since the editor is in charge of what goes in the mag, but the author is ultimately responsible. 

Our shop stopped selling MBA cause nobody was buying it...


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## ruralrider528 (Nov 8, 2008)

Uncle Cliffy said:


> Our shop stopped selling MBA cause nobody was buying it...


Maybe its MBA's last call for attention, especially if people arent buying them anymore, i had a subscription with them a few years back, now Ive moved onto decline mag


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> it is really funny and very hypocritical ...effing hypocritical that this same magazine would say we shouldn't be on illegal DH trails but half the pictures in the magazine where on the very same trails they said they shouldn't be on.


Ha ha isn't that the best? They are always either the one illegal trail or the multi use trail on the other side of the hill. Good times.


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## crazyjohnny (Aug 15, 2006)

they can go screw themselves, what a crock of ****.


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## Demodude (Jan 27, 2007)

Time for a strongly written letter. 
This won't do anything to stop illegal trails unless there is a person monitering the illegal trail, lol. 
Phucking dirt roadies!!!!!
Oh by the way, how's that new term "black diamond" working for you MBA? I was just saying to my bro the other day "man, that was a great black diamond trail we just dropped"


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

This piece was not signed, so I can't tell you who wrote it. But it's likely to be the editor (he usually rambles on about how good his last 40 mile ride was, or how you can tell how fast a rider on a climb ahead of you is by looking at his tire marks on the ground...I'm not making this stuff up...).

I think everybody needs to write in about this to their stupid reader's letter section, and see if they have the balls to run at least one of them. Problem is, somebody will have to volunteer to buy the next issue to check if they did.


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## rideut (Dec 10, 2008)

MBA is like the Fox News of bike publications - spreading propaganda for their elitist readers. :nono:


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

Even more funny is the fact that the big feature of the same issue was a "Gravity Buyer's Guide". 12 pages of DH bikes and assorted 4x/jump bikes of various description. (and of course, the cover shot was a huck on a Foes...they love huck pics on the cover, they go really well with all the 29er tests...).

Write to them at [email protected]


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

rideut said:


> MBA is like the Fox News of bike publications - spreading propaganda for their elitist readers. :nono:


That would be pretty much all news media.

But not sure it would make a difference if consumers stopped buying them. There is a way to check actual numbers purchased versus numbers printed. there is typically a huge variance in this. But few magazines actually use the number purchased figure when showing rates to advertisers.:madman:


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

This may be BS, but I still 100% agree with a snowboarding ban.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

CaveGiant said:


> This may be BS, but I still 100% agree with a snowboarding ban.


Ooh. There's a whole new can of worms. You need to stick to Alta if you want to completely avoid the knuckle draggers.

Back on topic, I sent an email already to their "ask MBA" section @ the email address given above.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

CaveGiant said:


> This may be BS, but I still 100% agree with a snowboarding ban.


Really? You can't see that they are exactly the same ban? How incredibly shortsighted and narrowminded.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

"gravity-assistance-required bikes"

Dumbest thing I've ever read. I guess this is opposed to those fancy bikes that aren't affected by gravity?


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## OB1 (Jun 5, 2006)

How bout this logic.....9 or of 10 mountain bikers are on XC bikes. So XC bikes are the REAL scourge of the precious hiking trails. Let's BAN XC bikes, and keep DH.:thumbsup: 

Lame article. There is a good section of the XC community that would really like to ban DH bikes. Sad....people love to hate anyone that isn't exactly like themselves.:madman:


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## bitewerks (May 14, 2009)

The article says the problem is riders blazing new trails so common sense should dictate "No digging or new trail building" in parks/on land. Rational, common sense is becoming superf'ing rare.


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## chauzie (Mar 8, 2010)

I think some of you are over reacting a bit by lashing out all the xc guys. I know a few guys who enjoy doing a 20-30-40 mile xc ride, and at the same time also enjoy jumping 30-40 foot gap. These guys don't have the "us versus them" mentality. Sure there are some xc aholes who will hate the sight of anything resembling a downhill bike, but these are the very minority (at least in my area). If anything, I find the dh crowd around here to be the ruder of the two. I've seen some dh guys around here who would swear or at the minimum mumble unfriendly words to people getting in their run. I ride with xc guys and sometimes it's so freakin embarrassing to see an ahole dh'er curse at my friend because my buddy also knows I like doing dh. And it's true around here that those who build illegally are usually the dh/fr guys. All the "hidden & secret" trails are discussed by the dh guys. Like it or not, keeping something a secret often carries a bad and dark image to it.

Hmm come to think of it, in the real world around here, I don't see much confrontation between the dh and xc guys. May it's just vocal minorities on BOTH sides that are trying to stir the pot or something. I must say though I get a little entertained whenever I see a dh versus xc sort of thread, there's all these references to "spandex" (and in some cases lycra and even cashmere!) is really making me wanting to hit on the girlfriend lol.


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## chauzie (Mar 8, 2010)

bitewerks said:


> The article says the problem is riders blazing new trails so common sense should dictate "No digging or new trail building" in parks/on land. Rational, common sense is becoming superf'ing rare.


these sort of thread tend to put people (especially guys) into a singleminded tract and then quickly escalating into a mob calling for the culling of spandex, as in "go call Bubba and the boys and let's go get'em". Good to see that some one is actually back tracking to fact check! lol


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## singlesprocket (Jun 9, 2004)

other then it might be an april fools joke... yeah there is a segiment of xc riders that would like to see long travel bikes excluded from trails. i've seen that going on in some areas where i ride. i'm not talking big drops or anything like that. it is done in a subtle manner where they are exclude from input with the trail manager and trail construction/planning. i've called it out stating that all types of riding should be included and all members should be stakeholders. if you ban a certain segement it will only cause more illegal building. it will solve nothing.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

chauzie said:


> I think some of you are over reacting a bit by lashing out all the xc guys. I know a few guys who enjoy doing a 20-30-40 mile xc ride, and at the same time also enjoy jumping 30-40 foot gap. These guys don't have the "us versus them" mentality. Sure there are some xc aholes who will hate the sight of anything resembling a downhill bike, but these are the very minority (at least in my area). If anything, I find the dh crowd around here to be the ruder of the two. I've seen some dh guys around here who would swear or at the minimum mumble unfriendly words to people getting in their run. I ride with xc guys and sometimes it's so freakin embarrassing to see an ahole dh'er curse at my friend because my buddy also knows I like doing dh. And it's true around here that those who build illegally are usually the dh/fr guys. All the "hidden & secret" trails are discussed by the dh guys. Like it or not, keeping something a secret often carries a bad and dark image to it.
> 
> Hmm come to think of it, in the real world around here, I don't see much confrontation between the dh and xc guys. May it's just vocal minorities on BOTH sides that are trying to stir the pot or something. I must say though I get a little entertained whenever I see a dh versus xc sort of thread, there's all these references to "spandex" (and in some cases lycra and even cashmere!) is really making me wanting to hit on the girlfriend lol.


I don't think anyone was lashing out at "xc guys" per se, just the dipshyt article in the crap rag that is MBA.


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## michaeldorian (Nov 17, 2006)

I don't recall the last time I read MBA. That mag is junk. Us long travel guys are having enough trouble as it is here in the PNW. Can't we all just get along.


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## VP Not Free (May 25, 2006)

The funny part is, that where I bike, the problem is that the trails are getting too wide!!! All the xc guy's that don't have a lot of suspension are going around the hardcore sections that are getting eroded away, & are making the trails 30 feet wide. Which is ruining the environment! This is the complain I hear. We need more All mountain & DH bike's too fix the problem? I would love to throw this in their face!!!!!!


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## FA-Q (Jun 10, 2008)

More "wisdom" from the guys who decided that the term "freeride" was politically incorrect, and tried to insist we should all refer to it as "black-diamond" riding. :skep:


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## forceyoda (Nov 12, 2005)

I doubt MBA cares what we write to them. The most effective way would be to start a letter compaign to the companies that buy adds in their magazine. It has been a while since I have seen a MBA but I believe Santa Cruz and Specialized advertise heavily in their pages and both of them are pushing DH and longer travel AM bikes.


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## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

The first rider i come across on my glory that says "sorry mate you cant ride that downhill bike on this mountain trail" with regards to that article, will be greeted with smile and a complimentry F*ck off, not like they'd be able to catch us on the downhills anyway


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## lew242 (Aug 7, 2008)

This is the stupidity of mountain biking in general. All this discipline vs discipline polarization is caused by marketing and media to being with. Forget labels, the bikes just have a certain amount of travel, geometry and setup. The writer of this article comes across as deeply insecure, dressing up his insecurity of being afraid of or lacking the skills to do more technically challenging terrain as somehow helpful for the sport.

In some places 'black runs' are easy and anyone can do them, other places you need a medium/long travel bike and serious skills to be able to get down them.

Too much labeling already without riveting stuff to to front of other peoples bikes.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

Why is there even a seperate "Downhill-Freeride" forum here, anyway? Boycott this forum if you are gonna cry about what a magazines says, it's a classification just the same. I've always thought it is all about riding 2 wheel man-powered, off-road bicycles no matter what you choose to ride on or where, RIGHT???

Stop crying about what someone else says. Stop living in mass paranoia. Stop thinking the world is out to get you. The "opinions" you read in any magazine are nothing more.

I don't care about politics or what is said in magazines. None of that is going to change what I believe in, ME.

I'm keeping my subscription to MBA, I like the pretty pictures...I never took the opinions seriously and neither should you...


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## badkittyjing (Sep 2, 2009)

bitewerks said:


> The article says the problem is riders blazing new trails so common sense should dictate "No digging or new trail building" in parks/on land. Rational, common sense is becoming superf'ing rare.


If the article calls for long-travel bikes to be banned on certain trails... you can bet that will just lead to the blazing of more new trails.

If anything, common sense should dictate that if "authorities" open up more legal trails or if the bike industry spends time lobbying for more trail access for all bikes, it will be less likely that new trails will be blazed.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

ambassadorhawg said:


> Why is there even a seperate "Downhill-Freeride" forum here, anyway?


Well, because they're different bikes with different components riding different trails. It's not a political difference but it is a physical difference, can't you see that?



ambassadorhawg said:


> I'm keeping my subscription to MBA, I like the pretty pictures...I never took the opinions seriously and neither should you...


There are pictures just as pretty (or more so) in Bike, Decline and Dirt Rag, and they come with articles aimed at knowledgeable mtbers, not clueless noobs, but if the shoe fits.....


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

whodaphuck said:


> Well, because they're different bikes with different components riding different trails. It's not a political difference but it is a physical difference, can't you see that?
> 
> There are pictures just as pretty (or more so) in Bike, Decline and Dirt Rag, and they come with articles aimed at knowledgeable mtbers, not clueless noobs, but if the shoe fits.....


Well, either they ride on dirt or on pavement, it's that simple. We are mtn bikers, whatever we ride, are we not? And it's everyone on here whose bra strap is too tight that is turning this thing into a political subject. I'm just making fun of it.

And, I like the pretty pictures in those other mags, too!


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## sambs827 (Dec 8, 2008)

Hmm...my friends and I built a 3.5 mile XC trail without official permission on School District and City Parks property. I guess that our Remedy, Fuel EX, Scott Spark, Chumba XCL, Anthem XW, etc etc should be limited to other trails???

Oh wait, the "official" opening of aforementioned trail is in a few weeks, and will be attended by the school board, city parks council, mayor, and community. 

Suppose there's an approved trail with a 3-mile downhill in it and I hike to the top with my Jamis Bam....


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

chauzie said:


> I think some of you are over reacting a bit by lashing out all the xc guys. I know a few guys who enjoy doing a 20-30-40 mile xc ride, and at the same time also enjoy jumping 30-40 foot gap. These guys don't have the "us versus them" mentality. Sure there are some xc aholes who will hate the sight of anything resembling a downhill bike, but these are the very minority (at least in my area). If anything, I find the dh crowd around here to be the ruder of the two. I've seen some dh guys around here who would swear or at the minimum mumble unfriendly words to people getting in their run. I ride with xc guys and sometimes it's so freakin embarrassing to see an ahole dh'er curse at my friend because my buddy also knows I like doing dh. And it's true around here that those who build illegally are usually the dh/fr guys. All the "hidden & secret" trails are discussed by the dh guys. Like it or not, keeping something a secret often carries a bad and dark image to it.
> 
> Hmm come to think of it, in the real world around here, I don't see much confrontation between the dh and xc guys. May it's just vocal minorities on BOTH sides that are trying to stir the pot or something. I must say though I get a little entertained whenever I see a dh versus xc sort of thread, there's all these references to "spandex" (and in some cases lycra and even cashmere!) is really making me wanting to hit on the girlfriend lol.


I agree, a lot of building is done by the DH/FR crowd. But it's incredibly stupid to think that banning a specific type of bike will help solve the problem. It's ALREADY illegal to build the trails! What, now it will be twice as illegal, is that it? No, you have to see this for what it really is - it is about a certain segment of riders trying to get into a position where THEY themselves can police "their" trails, by attacking the gravity crowd. THAT is what the author is really after.

And no, it's not about lashing out at all the XC guys. I also go on trail rides with people who don't ride DH/FR, and I always try to be civil to people no matter what they ride. And no, there are not that many conflicts usually, because I don't see a lot of XC guys trying to get down our DH trails, and most of the big bike riders would rather be shuttling than pedalling around the flatter trails. So by definition there is little opportunity for on-trail conflict.

The issue here is that a certain group of riders (MBA's main reader demographic no doubt) would now try to make us DHers the scapegoat of the land-access issues. I have never ever heard of DHers fingering the XC guys to try and get them off certain trails? So it is them who are creating this "us vs them" mindset.

MBA does not deserve our money. And we should defintely also ask big S, Trek, and Giant (the people who REALLY pay the salaries at MBA) what they think of this proposal. More e-mails on the way...


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## mtroy (Jun 10, 2005)

I wondered when that article would get mentioned. I saw an early copy of it before it went out to the masses.

This is what I thought back then...bloggage linky.

Now, if it IS April Fools, and it never occurred to me that it was an April edition...I don't really pay attention to what month a mag is...then it fooled me and I might mention that it is not quite satirical enough to be obviously a joke.

Someone somewhere will think it is a great idea and it will be sitting on some person's desk as some new fodder for the well intentioned but misdirected.

PS: Fox News is pandering to elitists (earlier comment)? Seriously? Nothing is more elitist than the left and its social engineering and....well...that is for another forum somewhere.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Sent an email to MBA and already got an answer. 

"YOUR PROPOSED BAN OF DH BIKES FROM XC TRAILS
I can't believe you'd even suggest such a thing. Take a look at MTBR and you'll see an active move to boycott your magazine (something that's unnecessary for me since I quit reading your crappy rag about my second year of biking...around 20 years ago) as a result of your biting the hand of the industry that feeds you. Does this mean you'll never again test ride a DH bike on a trail that's not legal and not a designated DH trail? I didn't think so, hypocrites. 

Disgustedly,
Todd Melton
Reply

Forward


Reply
|
mountain bike action
to me

show details 5:32 AM (3 minutes ago)

Thanks for the letter. We ran that story to open a discussion. I’ll try to run your full letter.

Thanks,
Jim "Jimmy Mac" McIlvain
Editor
Mountain Bike Action "

If anyone still gets the rag, post if my email gets published.


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

While I am a proud mountain biker I do too much to classify myself as a freerider, xc rider, dh rider... I just ride mountain bikes. Whether one day I'm doing a 50 mile xc epic on a 29er ht or if I'm riding up this hill to hit some more aggressive dh on my 6 inch bike, or all out shuttling or going to resorts with my dh bike. 

With that in mind, please don't hate on people who are xc riders. Without them dh wouldn't exist. DH makes up less than 1% of the market for mountain biking even though it seems to be the most talked about form of mountain biking on the web based forums. So while on the internet there may be an attitude against xc people who are apparently geeks keep in mind they are the vast majority and they're the ones going to meetings to keep trails open much more than dhers. So instead of disssing them you might want to thank them? 

But, at the same time... All riders should have access to riding the same trails regardless of what bike you have. As long as everyone out there is trying to be nice to each other and not boss each other around then what does it matter if someone is riding a xc hardtail on your so-called "bro's only gnar gnar dh trail." If they can ride the trail as is, not destroy it in the process, and not sanitize the main line of the trail so they can ride it then let the xc guy be. Similarly, if you want to ride your 45 pound dh bike on a fireroad then the xc guys should be cool with you. 

End rant


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

whodaphuck said:


> Sent an email to MBA and already got an answer.
> 
> "YOUR PROPOSED BAN OF DH BIKES FROM XC TRAILS
> I can't believe you'd even suggest such a thing. Take a look at MTBR and you'll see an active move to boycott your magazine (something that's unnecessary for me since I quit reading your crappy rag about my second year of biking...around 20 years ago) as a result of your biting the hand of the industry that feeds you. Does this mean you'll never again test ride a DH bike on a trail that's not legal and not a designated DH trail? I didn't think so, hypocrites.
> ...


Yeah, I got the same reply to mine a few minutes ago in my inbox. My mail to them was considerably longer - be interesting to see if they do manage to run a few of these.

So, they ran it just to get a discussion going.....right.... 

I also wrote Spesh and Trek (via their websites) - I failed to dig up a link to Giant (anyway, that mail would probably just end up on some desk in Asia gathering dust).


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

his dudeness said:


> While I am a proud mountain biker I do too much to classify myself as a freerider, xc rider, dh rider... I just ride mountain bikes. Whether one day I'm doing a 50 mile xc epic on a 29er ht or if I'm riding up this hill to hit some more aggressive dh on my 6 inch bike, or all out shuttling or going to resorts with my dh bike.
> 
> With that in mind, please don't hate on people who are xc riders. Without them dh wouldn't exist. DH makes up less than 1% of the market for mountain biking even though it seems to be the most talked about form of mountain biking on the web based forums. So while on the internet there may be an attitude against xc people who are apparently geeks keep in mind they are the vast majority and they're the ones going to meetings to keep trails open much more than dhers. So instead of disssing them you might want to thank them?
> 
> ...


That's the whole point! It's so easy to sell out the 1%, hoping that will buy the 99% more time on THEIR illegal trails!

I for one am not hating on XC riders. But, a certain group of XC riders are now trying to picking a fight with DH (via a pretty big publication) - that's very different. Let it be noted that they damn well started it.


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## skottt160 (Apr 25, 2008)

All-mountain bikes suck. 

They are destroying mountain biking.

Ban 5-6" bikes!


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## qbert2000 (Jul 30, 2008)

if anything, all emails related to this article should be sent to trek, giant and specialized. they are the big money advertisers who will be affected by this article. 

all three carry dh bikes and i'm sure they wouldn't be happy to see their advertising dollars being used to run articles recommending their bikes in this segment be banned from trail and be race only


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## stuffshredman (Jan 23, 2007)

I hereby ban myself.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I "banned" them at least 8 years ago, but that article really pisses me off because I like to think that I do all kinds of mountain biking. Riding my 29er on smooth trails, riding my AM/FR bike up and down big descents. Riding my DH bike on DH trails. Riding my DH/FR bike on smooth XC trails, riding my FR bike on huge epic rides, and so on. I just like to mix it up and I don't like areas or palces that are severely one-sided in terms of their riding, it's nice to have a mix. I know there are a lot of DH-only riders, but the whole idea of this article is just stupid. Since I have a DH bike and ride downhill some of the time I'm a "DH-only" rider? What about when I ride it up the very same trail (Mormon, National, etc) that I'm riding down? Ridiculous.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

qbert2000 said:


> if anything, all emails related to this article should be sent to trek, giant and specialized. they are the big money advertisers who will be affected by this article.
> 
> all three carry dh bikes and i'm sure they wouldn't be happy to see their advertising dollars being used to run articles recommending their bikes in this segment be banned from trail and be race only


this


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## Local717 (Dec 10, 2010)

This should be posted in the other forums, Passion, AM, etc. to see what other "non-DHer's have to say about it.


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## oakhills (Mar 30, 2004)

This could lead to a new category of bike; long travel AM, 8 inch travel, pedal-able-type bikes
that descend nicely. Oh wait, they already have that (Foes Fly, VP Free, etc)......

Dumb proposal, even dumber that the DH crowd is the only user group which is responsible for cutting new trails..... Most people shred on 5-7 inch travel bikes as it is.


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## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

*Great call!*



Moosey said:


> Then wouldn't all the downhillers go get some short travel bikes and ride the same way they would on a DH bike?
> 
> Would this be similar to banning trail running on hiking trails?


We'd all just ride shorter travel bikes like the pros in vids ripping trails as if aboard their dh sleds:thumbsup:


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## stolpsgti (Jan 25, 2006)

This has gotta be an epic trolling effort in advance of April fool's day.  


Or things have changed much in the couple of years I've been away from the bike.:eekster: 


A quick Google search, and it looks like the local hill already bans DH specific bikes from the lift. Really?


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Iceman2058 said:


> Yeah, I got the same reply to mine a few minutes ago in my inbox. My mail to them was considerably longer - be interesting to see if they do manage to run a few of these.
> 
> So, they ran it just to get a discussion going.....right....
> 
> I also wrote Spesh and Trek (via their websites) - I failed to dig up a link to Giant (anyway, that mail would probably just end up on some desk in Asia gathering dust).


I wrote to everyone with a banner on their website. Haven't heard from Cannondale but got this back from Magura today. They don't seem too concerned...

"Hi Tod,

First off I haven't a clue what you're talking about... Second off, what is a Downhill bike? Do they want rid of the Downhillers because they get in the way because they have to push every time the trail goes up-hill slightly? ;O) I don't think so. Sounds more like some journalist hasn't got anything better to do and he's got you hooked in as well. Let's get back to fighting against the hillwalkers, the horsey people or the pinch-flat pixies and stop fighting amongst ourselves. I also can't see what this has to do with advertising which is also a thing dictated by customers who buy the magazine. Stop buying the magazine and after a while, when everyone else has the same opinion and also doesn't buy the magazine, we'll no longer advertise in it. Easy. (If Magura don't advertise there someone else will. It's the readers not the people who advertise).
Keep riding! Keep having fun! Don't skid! Wear a helmet, eat your greens and watch out for the pinch-flat Pixies! ;O)
Oh and.
Keep cool!,

Drew

Best regards

Drew Coull
Sales Support Manager"


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## Fuelish (Dec 19, 2003)

skottt160 said:


> All-mountain bikes suck.
> 
> They are destroying mountain biking.
> 
> Ban 5-6" bikes!


 ahhhhhh...let's bump it up a notch.... humans are destroying the world. Extinction of our species is the only hope for the survival of this planet!!!:thumbsup:


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

Fuelish said:


> ahhhhhh...let's bump it up a notch.... humans are destroying the world. Extinction of our species is the only hope for the survival of this planet!!!:thumbsup:


AGREED!!!!


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## MAD40er (Feb 10, 2011)

whodaphuck said:


> I wrote to everyone with a banner on their website. Haven't heard from Cannondale but got this back from Magura today. They don't seem too concerned...
> 
> "Hi Tod,
> 
> ...


That is an epic response! Love it!

My first thought would be April fools, but if it is a serious article, do you really think that this rag you are all ragging on has the political clout to bring this idea to fruition, you are contradicting yourselves.

I ride XC, and throw in a bit of AM in the mix, and have not had the oppurtunity to get into DH (probably because I am a P*#**y). Don't hate on us non-DH riders. Remember we are all brothers in MTBing, but we express that with different specialties. I personally would fight this kind of "persecution" along side you, and I think the majority of XC/AM/FR/you name it would be standing alongside.

Anyway, that's my take on this situation.

:thumbsup:


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Maybe downhillers and freeriders wouldn't be building stunts and trails on public land if the fawking public would give them some land and some stunts that were legit.


Either way, one opinion article from one writer who obviously doesn't even ride downhill doesn't necessarily mean the entire magazine feels that way. Do you call the New York Times and shout at them about their editorials?


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

MAD40er said:


> Don't hate on us non-DH riders. Remember we are all brothers in MTBing, but we express that with different specialties.


Too many of you are missing the point. No one here, be they AM, DH or whatever has done any "hating" on XCers, just the asinine suggestion proposed by MBA. Most of us defy that pigeonhole classification anyway, owning XC, AM and DH bikes.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

whodaphuck said:


> Too many of you are missing the point. No one here, be they AM, DH or whatever have done any "hating" on XCers, just the asinine suggestion proposed by MBA. Most of us defy that pigeonhole classification anyway, owning XC, AM and DH bikes.


this


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

The funny thing about the April edition of MBA is that it has a big section about downhilling bikes. It would seem that this edition caters to "downhilling", not hates it.


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## MAD40er (Feb 10, 2011)

whodaphuck said:


> Too many of you are missing the point. No one here, be they AM, DH or whatever has done any "hating" on XCers, just the asinine suggestion proposed by MBA. Most of us defy that pigeonhole classification anyway, owning XC, AM and DH bikes.


There does seem to be some animosity:



Iggz said:


> Gotta love the cross country fools that think they run mountain biking





ruralrider528 said:


> Their spandex is starting to chafe and they're becoming irritable  I wonder how many xc trails weren't legal a few years ago.





OB1 said:


> How bout this logic.....9 or of 10 mountain bikers are on XC bikes. So XC bikes are the REAL scourge of the precious hiking trails. Let's BAN XC bikes, and keep DH.:thumbsup:
> 
> Lame article. There is a good section of the XC community that would really like to ban DH bikes. Sad....people love to hate anyone that isn't exactly like themselves.:madman:


But anyway, my show of support obviously did not shine through in my post. LOL

Just wanted to say that we should all stand together on issues like this.


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## squiby (Jul 25, 2009)

If the article is not an April fools stunt, then it is a troll to raise their profile/ get a little needed attention. Kinda like a few members on internet forums. They'll just play politics and make the most of it.

"Dopey Downhiller's. Lets see what happens when we give 'em a little poke." 

Pettiness aside, the article is misleading to impressionable noobs that subscribe not knowing any better. Perpetuates false stereotypes and is hypocritical. Their article and approach will harm mountain biking more than help it. We need to stand together against short sighted radicals, whether they're hikers, equestrians or from our own sport or specific genre. That will give us strength and power, with markets and politics, benefiting us all. Promoting separation and creating dissent within the mountain bike community is a step in the wrong direction. This magazine is harming the sport we all love.


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## jerry68 (Aug 23, 2007)

Wasn't this the same copy of Mountain Bike Fiction that said I have to replace every part on my mountain bike every 6 months? lame.


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## dnoyeb (Sep 23, 2007)

Moosey said:


> Then wouldn't all the downhillers go get some short travel bikes and ride the same way they would on a DH bike?
> 
> Would this be similar to banning trail running on hiking trails?


Yes, that's why the label should be riveted to the forehead of the rider. :madman:


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

....so, what if I have a DH/long travel hardtail? ....that magazine is just stupid.


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

Fuelish said:


> ahhhhhh...let's bump it up a notch.... humans are destroying the world. Extinction of our species is the only hope for the survival of this planet!!!:thumbsup:


agree! we are the virus that will kill the planet!!


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## honourablegeorge (May 2, 2006)

Simple answer - allow downhillers to ride down only, and XC'ers to ride up only.

We could all share shuttle duties. It would be a beautiful thing.


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## MDJ (Jan 21, 2005)

Jim311 said:


> Either way, one opinion article from one writer who obviously doesn't even ride downhill doesn't necessarily mean the entire magazine feels that way. Do you call the New York Times and shout at them about their editorials?


That's not true. Editorials in the NYT are unsigned and the position of the paper. Same as MBA. Op-Ed's are signed and while not the position of the paper, generally follow along the same lines as the paper. And yes, a lot of people shout at the Times for thier editorials.


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

Glad Cleek took a job at Specialized or he'd get a solid kick in the nuts or a stuck lift stop button next time he's at Northstar. Hmmmm maybe he's the reason that MBA was pro DH last year with great coverage of the GRT's and some bike park stuff. Hey Ryan did you pre-read this and figure it was time to move on and closer to our mountain.

OK one reason this will NEVER happen and MBA s**ting in it's own back yard doesn't even put a pimple on our ass. Who's going to enforce it and where is the enforcement budget going to come from? Just when we should as a sport we should be fighting for access as a whole idiots like this divide us once more.

MBA can also be held largely for the demise of sponsorship dollars in the past 10-12 years. In late 2001 maybe 2002 MBA published an article that outlined why it was stupid for any company to sponsor a professional mountain bike team. They went as far as to target Volvo-Cannondale in the article and the next year Volvo was gone. It was written by a failed professional rider that had an axe to grind. That's it.... that's all! Was it the only cause of sponsor dollars to decline... no! You still don't stop from bleeding out by getting slashed in the back with some a-hole's axe that's got a fresh grind.

This is why media venues such as that continue to decline and one such as this and other web based member forum media and networking continues to thrive. The kinda money most of us spend on this stuff anymore we have done a ton of research online, through friends, or at the ever growing amount of traveling demo days. We don't need these wanna be hacks that think they can write because they can ride spoon feeding it to us anymore. Someone we know has one we can borrow the s**t isn't that rare anymore.

Oh and quite buying their mag!


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

I ride a NOS gunnar rockhound hardtail frame I picked up and built using ebay ..
I ride to and from the trails, some are steep and hairy , others aren't
I have my own trail and I smash whatever else I can when I have it to myself

No one I know rides mountain bikes, I enjoy reading on your DHFR forum 
Freek MBA whoever they are and freek any kook who can't just get outta the way and let others do their thing


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## BigBill (Mar 25, 2004)

whodaphuck said:


> I wrote to everyone with a banner on their website. Haven't heard from Cannondale but got this back from Magura today. They don't seem too concerned...
> 
> "Hi Tod,
> 
> ...


What an awesome response. I love the MTB industry. Drew Coull sounds cool as f#%K.


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## freerider33 (Nov 14, 2005)

So basically in thier warped minds they want everyone to ride 1993 era bikes forever.:lol: 





.
.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

dhtahoe said:


> MBA can also be held largely for the demise of sponsorship dollars in the past 10-12 years.


Bullshyt. You're giving them way too much credit. The demise of sponsorship dollars was pure economics and had nothing to do with that rag. At the peak, the dollars being thrown around with the big box vans at races were way beyond what was appropriate for the return the companies were getting for their investments and they finally saw the light.


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## SpecEnduro (May 1, 2009)

I always thought that blazing trails is an inherent part of mountain biking and always was. I have been riding for over 15 years and if people didn't ride over land that wasn't 'open', then there would be no trails today. Foresty Commission included in the UK!


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Iceman2058 said:


> Really? You can't see that they are exactly the same ban? How incredibly shortsighted and narrowminded.


Is your statement not narrow minded as well? 
You do not know my reasoning, you are jumping to conclusions.

I could be complaining about the penchant mid skill boarders have for skidding their way down hills taking the snow with them, the litter, the sitting behind blind corners and the general too cool to learn technique, but I am not.

I am complaining that the last time I went skiing with my sister (who likes to ski but struggles as nearly blind) she was hit by 7 boarders in one day, but not one skier.

So I am spending the day watching a disabled person get seriously injured again and again by the ignorance of boarders who lack technique and control. One ****ing boarder also went in to me. However that bit made my day, pinning the little **** to the ground and screaming at them did wonders to reduce my stress level.

The minority of boarders who bother to get the skills are awesome, unfortunately they are let down by the general mass of ignorant ****s who deserve to be knocked out.

I do admit that day was the exception, but it was also enough for my sister to give up on a sport she had been struggling to learn for years.

Downhill bikers seem to care more about technique and control than most bikers, so are showing respect to other users.


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## SpecEnduro (May 1, 2009)

yyy


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

CaveGiant said:


> Is your statement not narrow minded as well?
> You do not know my reasoning, you are jumping to conclusions.
> 
> I could be complaining about the penchant mid skill boarders have for skidding their way down hills taking the snow with them, the litter, the sitting behind blind corners and the general too cool to learn technique, but I am not.
> ...


Your "reasoning" was not what was interesting about your comment (besides, it seems to have nothing to do with reason - it seems waaaaay more emotional to me, based on your account of "pinning the little **** to the ground" and what not... :eekster: ) - what was interesting is that you think banning DH bikes is a bad idea, but banning snowboarding is not. 
And then you proceed to explain why you arrived at that conclusion - your sister had a bad day with a bunch of idiot snowboarders. Do you think the problem is the snowboard in itself, or the fact that it is being ridden by an idiot who should be made to ride within his limits, and/or show more respect to other people around him? In other words, much like you seem to agree that it's not the DH bike in itself that is the problem, but rather the illegal trail building, should it not be obvious that what is needed is more control over HOW people ride (their skis/boards/whatever) at a resort, rather than over WHAT they ride?

You clearly feel in your right on this one (after all, your sister had a horrible day) - but believe me, that's exactly how the people who wrote that article feel about DHers.

But on that token, is it not also possible that your sister was in the wrong place at the wrong time? I'm not trying to be insensitive to her handicap, but skiing is a sport of crossing trajectories, perhaps not ideally suited to a visually impaired person on a busy slope...whereas biking is much more linear in nature (given that we all follow the same trail for 99% of the time...).

To end: do you think I'm not aware that many snowboarders seem to have a little too much arrogance and a serious lack of respect for other people (not to mention lack of skill)? And similarly, that there are many DHers out there hacking out illegal trails (and bringing a pretty poor attitude towards the XC crowd at the same time)? My point is: it's already illegal or at least not accepted to blaze out new trails all over the place (whether they are DH trails or XC trails). It's also either illegal or unacceptable to run people down with your snowboard (or your skis).Banning someone based on their equipment type however is not the solution - and it is very discriminatory to those who DO ride and behave the way they are supposed to.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

stolpsgti said:


> This has gotta be an epic trolling effort in advance of April fool's day.
> y?


um...it would be like saying a tasteless racist joke. no place for it here....banzor


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## axolotl (Apr 24, 2008)

This whole thread is one great advertisement for MBA. They must have wanted controversy and got it.


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## Dgage (Aug 20, 2006)

ambassadorhawg said:


> Why is there even a seperate "Downhill-Freeride" forum here, anyway? Boycott this forum if you are gonna cry about what a magazines says, it's a classification just the same. I've always thought it is all about riding 2 wheel man-powered, off-road bicycles no matter what you choose to ride on or where, RIGHT???
> 
> Stop crying about what someone else says. Stop living in mass paranoia. Stop thinking the world is out to get you. The "opinions" you read in any magazine are nothing more.
> 
> ...


Fully agree with you! When I'm riding I never notice what other riders are on and I couldn't really care. I'm too busy having fun to worry about what some one else is riding.
About the only time I noticed is one day doing trail work and two kids came over to us pushing their downhill bikes. They were lost and need help getting out of the park. We told them the easiest way to get out and asked them how they liked riding their bikes on the trails. They said they had fun but sure brought the wrong type of bikes!


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

WHOAH.....people still read Mountain Bike Fiction?!?

THAT is the shocker here!


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

The next time I see you trail-raping, DH'er's rolling down MY trails dammit, I'm gonna stop, extract a long thread of kevlar from my Spandex and string it across the trail at neck height, Vandeman style. Oh, I'll say "stop" at the last moment, but you won't hear me past your iPod blaring Justin Beiber which I know you all listen to, being trail-raping DHers. Enjoy, scumbags. Soon, we'll be rid of you.


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## ilostmypassword (Dec 9, 2006)

just go ride people!


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## SaddleRags (Sep 14, 2010)

"This whole thread is one great advertisement for MBA. They must have wanted controversy and got it."

Bingo. 
Some people, organizations, etc. need this kind of stuff to stay fresh in our minds, just like kids who act up to get attention (Psych 101 - negative reinforcement is better than being ignored). My view is that writing letters to bike companies about this is validating the mag's cred, but whatever.


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## jayjudy13 (May 8, 2004)

I haven't bought a copy of MBA in a looooong time, but ironically I saw this one at the store last night.... and almost bought it on a whim. Glad I didn't now.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

How is it that I manage to ride 2-3 days a week at one of the busiest resorts in the most populated state in the nation and haven't had one person (regardless of one or to planks) run into me in years? 7 accidents in one day, something smells fishy. I've never seen or heard of anything like that.

The rest of the statements just smack of ignorance, as if no one ever threw a power bar wrapper on the ground before the snowboard was invented, or snowboarders somehow tear up a hill worse than skiers. (Moguls aren't cool for 90% of people on the mountain)

The ski vs. snowboard thing died in the 90's, sorry you didn't get the memo. Everybody gets along now unless someone is being a total ******. Based on pinning some kid down and screaming at him it sounds like that would be......? :thumbsup:



CaveGiant said:


> Is your statement not narrow minded as well?
> You do not know my reasoning, you are jumping to conclusions.
> 
> I could be complaining about the penchant mid skill boarders have for skidding their way down hills taking the snow with them, the litter, the sitting behind blind corners and the general too cool to learn technique, but I am not.
> ...


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## VP Not Free (May 25, 2006)

So, how do we show that their utterly stupid article is not appreciated???? Saying we are not going to buy their magazine won’t do anything, but if we all find as many MBA Magazines as we can, rip out the subscribe card & write “ because of your article on DH bike’s you magazine is no longer needed” Not only does go directly to them, but they have to pay for the postage for us to tell them to Fu*k off! Brilliant?


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## ASI CA (Apr 27, 2008)

his dudeness said:


> While I am a proud mountain biker I do too much to classify myself as a freerider, xc rider, dh rider... I just ride mountain bikes. Whether one day I'm doing a 50 mile xc epic on a 29er ht or if I'm riding up this hill to hit some more aggressive dh on my 6 inch bike, or all out shuttling or going to resorts with my dh bike.
> 
> With that in mind, please don't hate on people who are xc riders. Without them dh wouldn't exist. DH makes up less than 1% of the market for mountain biking even though it seems to be the most talked about form of mountain biking on the web based forums. So while on the internet there may be an attitude against xc people who are apparently geeks keep in mind they are the vast majority and they're the ones going to meetings to keep trails open much more than dhers. So instead of disssing them you might want to thank them?
> 
> ...


Well said!

I will add we all ride bicycles.


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## StinkyFTW (Jun 29, 2008)

I had totally forgotten that MBA exists until this thread, so if they're gunning for attention (which is probable) it's working. There's no point in getting worked up over their article, it is just the latest in a long, long, long line of retardation being spewed from the minds of their writers. Mountain Bike Fiction is just trying to remind the world they're still around.


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

x-posted: If downhill sleds are hitting World Cup speeds at the multi-use trails it'd be scary. I think that's what they're trying to say is happening. I don't buy it. Furthermore, any bike from DH to AM to XC to Road can be an undue hazard to bystanders if the rider is out of control. MBA is a crock, I stopped bothering even flipping through it a few years back.
Let's keep the hating where it belongs though. We all share the same passion. Even with the roadies.


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## sambs827 (Dec 8, 2008)

stumblemumble}Let's keep the hating where it belongs though. We all share the same passion. Even with the roadies.[/QUOTE said:


> Can we still hate on the Recumbent fools at least?


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

sambs827 said:


> Can we still hate on the Recumbent fools at least?


Of course.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Watch here for a funny vid about MBF... He-larry-uzzz!


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

whodaphuck said:


> Bullshyt. You're giving them way too much credit. The demise of sponsorship dollars was pure economics and had nothing to do with that rag. At the peak, the dollars being thrown around with the big box vans at races were way beyond what was appropriate for the return the companies were getting for their investments and they finally saw the light.


My point was that why s**t in your own back yard and point that fact out. Is calling BS on that statement really needed?


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

dhtahoe said:


> My point was that why s**t in your own back yard and point that fact out. Is calling BS on that statement really needed?


I wasn't calling bs on your point, just the bs statement you used to try and make that point.
"MBA can also be held largely for the demise of sponsorship dollars in the past 10-12 years."


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## glassphisheye (Feb 16, 2006)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> IMO
> 
> that is the last straw
> 
> ...


Boycott Shiver Me Timbers so he goes outside! Get off your computer and ride! 40,000 posts, really!?


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

glassphisheye said:


> Boycott Shiver Me Timbers so he goes outside! Get off your computer and ride! 40,000 posts, really!?


what a baby....ask to read the rules and now this?? Man we don't need a jillion people having bikes for sale or trades...just think about what this site would be...then you have to lash out....Do you want some tissue??


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## daisycutter (Sep 18, 2005)

I hate to admit it but we dh riders shoot ourselves in the foot

http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_17721077?IADID=Search-www.dailycamera.com-www.dailycamera.com


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## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

CaveGiant said:


> Is your statement not narrow minded as well?
> You do not know my reasoning, you are jumping to conclusions.
> 
> I could be complaining about the penchant mid skill boarders have for skidding their way down hills taking the snow with them, the litter, the sitting behind blind corners and the general too cool to learn technique, but I am not.
> ...


Only collision I've ever had was with my little brother and we were racing through the trees, staying super close to each other. I've never once in my life had a collision with a random person on a resort, on my board or my DH bike. Funny how certain people seem to attract certain experiences.

Oh and I'd beat your ass in front of the whole resort if I happened to be there when you screamed at some poor 13 year old kid in his sister's pants.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Archi, it is because where you normally ride, the boarders have to have skill. If you spend more time on greens and easy blues you would get hit more. I do not have problems with skilled boarders, they are awesome. I have issues with the ****tards who skid down hard runs and go out of control.

On the subject of assaulting me, go for it, it would be fun. I am easy to spot, am the 6'7 guy skiing in body armour and a Giro remedy (I do get the occasional strange looks for that attire, but I have skied in to more than one tree).


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

You never replied to me above, but I'm a tahoe local and ride heavenly several times a week. Its chock full of bay area tourons weekends there are packed lift lines waiting for 6 wide high speed chairs and yes I ride blues there. I haven't even SEEN a collision aside from getting off the lift in years let alone been involved in one. Thats why the multiple collisions in one day seems so fishy. Where are you riding?

Also you'd do well to not be aggro on the hill. You could have gone to jail if you really did what you say to a 13 year old. Aside from that, you can be tall and still run into plenty of trouble bullying the wrong person. And for what?



CaveGiant said:


> Archi, it is because where you normally ride, the boarders have to have skill. If you spend more time on greens and easy blues you would get hit more. I do not have problems with skilled boarders, they are awesome. I have issues with the ****tards who skid down hard runs and go out of control.
> 
> On the subject of assaulting me, go for it, it would be fun. I am easy to spot, am the 6'7 guy skiing in body armour and a Giro remedy (I do get the occasional strange looks for that attire, but I have skied in to more than one tree).


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

CaveGiant said:


> Archi, it is because where you normally ride, the boarders have to have skill. If you spend more time on greens and easy blues you would get hit more. I do not have problems with skilled boarders, they are awesome. I have issues with the ****tards who skid down hard runs and go out of control.
> 
> On the subject of assaulting me, go for it, it would be fun. I am easy to spot, am the 6'7 guy skiing in body armour and a Giro remedy (I do get the occasional strange looks for that attire, but I have skied in to more than one tree).


If you've ski'd into enough trees to require body armor then it sounds like you may be out of control as well.  But really, I could see new riders getting going straight then forgetting how to turn. It's a learning curve. Skiers have the benefit of being pussies; beginner snowboarders tend to often be young males who aren't afraid to push the learning curve. 
Sorry for your daughter. Collisions are going to occur, if it hurt her feelings she may have needed it. Overprotected children with helicopter parents tend to do that to kids.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

stumblemumble said:


> Skiers have the benefit of being pussies;


I may agree with some of what you say but that's a real a$$hole statement.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

whodaphuck said:


> I may agree with some of what you say but that's a real a$$hole statement.


Exactly, whats up with all this early 90's ski vs. snowboard nonsense? This thread got retarded real quick. :madman:


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

What I meant was that beginner skiers tend not to be the adventurous type. Didn't mean it toward all skiers, I apologize.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Stay on topic A-holes...

A thread with a little something worth staying focused on is veering off track really fast.


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

^^^It's an interesting analogy. Back on topic: It'd seem that MBA would certainly want to ban XC and AM bikes from the downhill only trails? A XC rider threading a technical section would be a hazard to someone riding the trail as it was intended.


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## doesyourchainhanglow (Sep 27, 2010)

i no, mba blows. ive really been enjoyin dirt rag though, thats A PUBLICATION. great mag!


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## hunrugger (Jul 23, 2008)

In Austin I suspect it's mostly the XC crowd that builds, it's def the XC crowd that rides the rogue trails. I ride rogue 90% of the time and when I do run into others on the trail it's almost always the XC guys on their carbon 29er or short travel 26er. And they are often walking down obstacles to avoid getting runs in their spandex.

I have to admit, I do love the tight, twisty, techy trails they build though. Thanks to you if you're reading.


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

I never really appreciate vandalism, but the other day, while I was riding, I spotted a sign that stated something about 'downhill bicyclists needing to quit being so reckless, as pedestrians and equestrian use also existed' and it went on to say that if we did not heed the warnings, that we would be banned from riding. I thought to myself, "well, isn't it the local bike organization that are the ones that actually maintain these trails and that the conservation corps has hardly anything to do with this section"
the sign appeared to be rather unofficial, with no State logo or any other identifying mark. nearly all State signs have a Bear on them. this was just some wood with paper on covered by a sheet of plastic to protect it from the weather.
well, that sign hardly exists anymore.

There already is one that is in a triangular shape that shows who has the right of way to who, and that downhill cyclists yield to uphill ones (even though most uphill cyclists decide to pull over, common courtesy)


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

So any updates from MBA? Did they address any of the 'Letters' responses? I assume it wasn't an April fools joke?


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

stumblemumble said:


> So any updates from MBA? Did they address any of the 'Letters' responses? I assume it wasn't an April fools joke?


Don't know. Did anybody buy the latest issue? (and is still ready to publicly admit to it???  ).


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

stumblemumble said:


> Skiers have the benefit of being pussies.


You're an idiot. Come ski with me for a day and I'll show you what a "*****" skier does.


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## Maverick05 (Jan 24, 2011)

DucJ said:


> Elitist Dix..


2nd that, this is exactly what MTB dosen't need, MBA has always been lycra bound!

MTB needs to be together not label different bikes riders or disciplines, shows total ignorance and will come full circle and bite them in the arse!

I boycotted that fiction mag years ago, total sell outs who are easily brought with advertising dollars!


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

VTSession said:


> You're an idiot. Come ski with me for a day and I'll show you what a "*****" skier does.


count me in...better yet....lets go to Valdez !!!

...

,.....

so I can shoot the video


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## Gilly32 (Mar 28, 2010)

Iceman2058 said:


> Problem is, somebody will have to volunteer to buy the next issue to check if they did.


i'll do it. i used to buy this mag all the time. untill they started being Effin A##'s to the guys who wore cut off jean shorts and full face helmets when they rode.

now i just read it at wal-mart and when i'm done i put all the decline mags in front of them


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## kaniggitkev (Apr 2, 2011)

bought it, they printed nothing that was emailed... i always wondered why SMT had the boycott in his sig. considering ive posted what twice now (mostly reading up information to prevent the unnecessary influx of stupid questions) and finally stumbled upon this... ive never really like their mag, and recently got into DH and FR (been riding 20 inchers my whole life). but this is just retarded to even see this. as previously stated numerous times, you cant publish something like this and then follow it up with some BS story on DH or FR. being stationed in korea, i have two options for mags MBA and BIKE... it is now mandated that i only buy BIKE


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

CaveGiant said:


> I could be complaining about the penchant mid skill boarders have for skidding their way down hills taking the snow with them, the litter, the sitting behind blind corners and the general too cool to learn technique, but I am not.
> 
> I am complaining that the last time I went skiing with my sister (who likes to ski but struggles as nearly blind) she was hit by 7 boarders in one day, but not one skier.
> 
> So I am spending the day watching a disabled person get seriously injured again and again by the ignorance of boarders who lack technique and control. One ****ing boarder also went in to me. However that bit made my day, pinning the little **** to the ground and screaming at them did wonders to reduce my stress level.


Wow... sounds like the guy who needs a beating is the guy who OBVIOUSLY chose the wrong terrain to take his sister on in order for her to have a positive experience.

I have a number of friends who work for the NSCD & where you take someone who we want to avoid having a poor experience is a big factor.

btw... perhaps you're lacking on ski history or design, but until snowboards, skis were flat which SKIDDED across the snow, whereas snowboards were built with sidecut which allowed them to carve. Many of both are clueless about how to use their equipment properly... such is life.

Seems like the biggest ****** is the 6'7" guy who is clueless about a number of issues. btw, I ski, tele, and board, in that order (no monoski though, sorry)

btw, the snowboard kid running into your sister... that's called an accident

You pinning him on the ground on the other hand... that's called ASSAULT.


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

daisycutter said:


> I hate to admit it but we dh riders shoot ourselves in the foot
> 
> http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_17721077?IADID=Search-www.dailycamera.com-www.dailycamera.com


HOLY CRAP

from the article...

Tire marks from bikes are also imprinted along sections of the trail, a fallen tree has been shredded into mulch by chain rings and a steep section has been ground to bare dirt by braking rear tires.

BARE DIRT.... *BARE!* man... THAT is sketchy stuff!!!

Thanks goodness they're closing that trail!

btw, one of the guys that they caught on that trail was an XC racer... not exactly a "DH" trail imo.


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## OneEyedHito (Jun 20, 2009)

This is just a case of distract, deflect and confuse.....

The idea is to get a conversation going that can distract the "people that think only the things they 'like' are acceptable for all, i.e., Environmental Liberals as one example", then deflect the BLAME for transgressions in the past for 'illegal' trails on 'unapproved' land, and then to confuse the to whilst buying time to continue to wrestle with a pair of lycra/spandex bibs so they decrease the drag coefficient by .0002 percent (you can only move @ 25 mph at the FASTEST in the woods for XC) but then again you can only drop an extra $4K on components to lose about 6lbs. in bike weight too but that isn't stopping 'THEM' either is it.....

As a side note I purposely overused punctuations, run-on sentences, and a BIG BLOCK PARAGRAPH so as to "distract, deflect, & confuse"

Cheers!


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> count me in...better yet....lets go to Valdez !!!
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Sounds good. Who's flying the heli?


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## lostwind (Sep 15, 2008)

*Wow*

this has single handed made my evening, i use that magazine as toilet paper if i run out.

Worst Article Ever. People don't grasp the concept of biking in general and how far the sport has come.


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## Nozes (Feb 18, 2008)

MBA died in 1997
For me,anyway.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

If the information in this article had not been published in the mag, how would you all have heard about it? It isn't neccessarily an editorial but a description of a way of managing trail usage by a group of people. 

It is a very interesting and important article. Just look at what it meant to so many of you. I'm sure I'm not the only one who objects to such thinking yet I see no reason to blame the magazine for printing the article. To insist that such things not be published, simply becauae we disagree with the point of view, is just not how we do things in the US.


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## While At Rome (Apr 25, 2011)

Now if anyone actually had trails closed by the forest service due to illegal building, and failing to slow down/read signs, building jumps and ripping up protected wetlands - it sucks. I.E. Little Cottonwood Trail in SLC UT. This was not marked DH only, in fact it is a perfect example of that they are talking about. Campers from the local camp ground coming up and walking it, and getting hit. People digging all over the place where they shouldnt be. People riding uphill. THIS is the reason that DH specific trails need to be recognized and THIS IS A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE OF WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. If it would have been marked as DH only and the forestry people would have catered to DH then we could still rip it.

Ask 99% of the population of the USA if they know what Downhill Mountain Biking is they will say going downhill on a bike. 

My XC bike is an Enduro, and my hardtail is a p1. I dont wear lycra or anything like that, but there is some reality in that idea.


MBA is not one of my favorite mags by any means, and a lot of their articles are pretty low quality. Switch to Bike magazine. Either way this and all of their other articles seem to be written on the back of a napkin. I dont see a need for DH bikes to not be allowed to be ridden on any other trails, but the author for some reason thinks that everyone with 8 inch of travel rides like a bat out of hell drifting every corner, getting 10 foot of air on small rocks and roots.


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> If the information in this article had not been published in the mag, how would you all have heard about it? It isn't neccessarily an editorial but a description of a way of managing trail usage by a group of people.
> 
> It is a very interesting and important article. Just look at what it meant to so many of you. I'm sure I'm not the only one who objects to such thinking yet I see no reason to blame the magazine for printing the article. To insist that such things not be published, simply becauae we disagree with the point of view, is just not how we do things in the US.


You miss the point. This isn't them reporting some factual item to us, the public. This is them reporting an opinion piece that that displays an opinion/ idea which attempts to EXCLUDE a portion of their purported consumer base, the people who they claim to represent. This is like the NAACP creating an article on how they feel that "some" black people don't deserve representation, and really, we should just go back to partial segregation. As a magazine for our sport, they're an advocate of sorts... and they're working against a portion of the population that they're advocating for.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

backcountryislife said:


> This is them reporting an opinion piece that that displays an opinion.


Your words. I think there is an amendment about this. What they ought to be reporting? That is Teaparty thinking.

You might not have heard about this if they hadn't published it. Take it as being informed and act, politically, or as a trails advocate to make it different.

Or you can do the really ballsy thing and never buy their mag again. Boy oh boy, that'll show those trail managers.


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> Your words. I think there is an amendment about this. What they ought to be reporting? That is Teaparty thinking.
> 
> You might not have heard about this if they hadn't published it. Take it as being informed and act, politically, or as a trails advocate to make it different.
> 
> Or you can do the really ballsy thing and never buy their mag again. Boy oh boy, that'll show those trail managers.


Again... you COMPLETELY miss the point of why we're frustrated.

This is NOT them reporting about what is going on, this is them deciding on how they feel & stating an opinion of we should discriminate against a portion of our user group.

We disagree with their opinion. What they are reporting isn't some thing that "we might not have heard" about, as if it was some breaking story.
Not really sure how to put it more plainly than this. If you don't get it, that's not likely to change, sorry.

Oh, and the teaparty thing, almost forgot about that... impressive... someone who has a differing opinion & disagrees with an opinion piece from a magazine MUST be a fascist right?
Sarah P would be proud of your attempts to pigeonhole someone because they disagree with you.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

I hear that you are frustrated. Yet how you respond to this is really the most important thing.

The article is really about structures for organizing so absolutely clueless people don't do it for us based upon mistaken notions, inherent biases, hidden agendas, and stacked decks which are the topography which trail advocacy has to negotiate. The article proposes some solutions so riders don't get excluded out of hand. A constructive response to this article is a well-reasoned description of some other solution paradigm. Vitriol achieves nothing; it is reactionary, fear-based, and destructive.

It is important to hear about this stuff.

Your community needs to hear about this stuff.

If you don't hear about it you get blindsided and excluded.

If you hear about it you can do something about it.


The next problem is whether people will choose to complain, stop buying a magazine, or actually do something useful to advocate for their sport.


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## OneEyedHito (Jun 20, 2009)

:thumbsup:​


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## OneEyedHito (Jun 20, 2009)

backcountryislife said:


> Again... you COMPLETELY miss the point of why we're frustrated.
> 
> This is NOT them reporting about what is going on, this is them deciding on how they feel & stating an opinion of we should discriminate against a portion of our user group.
> 
> ...


Agreed! I could care less about their opinion and I also recognize that they are doing their version of Sensationalizing that Opinion for readers/conversation/viewers/blah/blah/blah.........I feel it is no different than writing an article about how the use of lubricants on our bike parts can be detrimental to the environment and we should all be forced to use Simple Green's lubricant (except that there isn't one that I am aware of) or else some politician will take our LUBES away...........No this is not too dissimilar either, it is an example of giving our ENEMIES AMMUNITION AGAINST US............that's all. If you disagree with me you are a commie lovin' green blooded North Korean.

Sincerely, 
An actor who doesn't want to be blacklisted as a Commie!


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## OneEyedHito (Jun 20, 2009)

While At Rome said:


> Now if anyone actually had trails closed by the forest service due to illegal building, and failing to slow down/read signs, building jumps and ripping up protected wetlands - it sucks. I.E. Little Cottonwood Trail in SLC UT. This was not marked DH only, in fact it is a perfect example of that they are talking about. Campers from the local camp ground coming up and walking it, and getting hit. People digging all over the place where they shouldnt be. People riding uphill. THIS is the reason that DH specific trails need to be recognized and THIS IS A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE OF WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. If it would have been marked as DH only and the forestry people would have catered to DH then we could still rip it.
> 
> Ask 99% of the population of the USA if they know what Downhill Mountain Biking is they will say going downhill on a bike.
> 
> ...


"but the author for some reason thinks that everyone with 8 inch of travel rides like a bat out of hell drifting every corner, getting 10 foot of air on small rocks and roots."

no joke that is what I aspire to be able to ride like, and that is getting made into a frame sticker, thanks!


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> I hear that you are frustrated. Yet how you respond to this is really the most important thing.
> 
> The article is really about structures for organizing so absolutely clueless people don't do it for us based upon mistaken notions, inherent biases, hidden agendas, and stacked decks which are the topography which trail advocacy has to negotiate. The article proposes some solutions so riders don't get excluded out of hand. A constructive response to this article is a well-reasoned description of some other solution paradigm. Vitriol achieves nothing; it is reactionary, fear-based, and destructive.
> 
> ...


Actually, I see the author as being ONE OF the absolutely clueless people that is trying to help create a sub-class in our sport.

That said, I agree COMPLETELY about what we should do & that it is important fro all of us to help with advocacy. I & many others DO & we want to work with the land mgmt agencies, but again... they're filled with MANY people who have no interest whatsoever in working with anyone that doesn't agree with them or has any other ideas than what they want implemented. It's a long road & a lot of work. It's much easier to come on here & complain. (or to complain about the people complaining...)


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

backcountryislife said:


> land mgmt agencies, but again... they're filled with MANY people who have no interest whatsoever in working with anyone that doesn't agree with them or has any other ideas than what they want implemented.


Too true. In the process advocates get burnt out and disappear altogether. Yet this is where the work needs to be done.

Just as the Red Cross will tell you, membership goes way up in response to a disaster but disappears later, a rabid response to a threat like this doesn't have much in the way of legs either. Folks just rant, piss and moan, then go out and ride. So this tempest does little for me.

In the meantime it is important to build community. Do what you can. Here are some photos of our Bicycle Trails Council of the East Bay Gala Ride; bringing people together and building concensus. It is the only way to confront a tax funded regime.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2011)

whodaphuck said:


> Ooh. There's a whole new can of worms. You need to stick to Alta if you want to completely avoid the knuckle draggers.


Or Deer Valley. Or Mad River Glen. And up to a couple years ago Taos and Aspen Mtn. too...


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## BigHit-Maniac (Apr 13, 2004)

MBA should be burned to the ground.


/Thread.


:madmax: :madmax: :madmax: :madmax: :madmax: :madmax: :devil: :devil: :devil:


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## OneEyedHito (Jun 20, 2009)

Berkeley Mike said:


> It is the only way to confront a tax funded regime.


There is always a little thing in the Bay called a Tea Party too though.........OK enough witless banter from me but seriously I agree with your thoughts and experience in combating those that understand little and and those that want to understand less, but I still feel that the magazine brings to light a topic that doesn't really have any point being brought up.

For the record I live in the MidWest where we are just building our first genuine Downhill Run of 3 in a local City Owned Park and we will have SIGNAGE out of the wazzou about it being Triple Black Diamond with FEATURES and ONE WAY TRAFFIC ONLY, so there is a good chance if this is a REAL issue then we will encounter it at some point. In all reality though the REAL DH that I want to ride is in a PAY FOR PLAY Park and with the LIFT necessity I can't see it never being in that type of environment just like DH Skiing or Snowboarding is, but that doesn't mean I can't take my snowboard to a hill and ride down it either......

Here is the link to our local trails that are coming together nicely thanks to GENEROUS DONATIONS OF TIME AND MOOLAH!!!

http://devouparktrails.bikeclicks.com/


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

At least MBA finally decided to run some of the reponses to this piece (in the July issue - basically a whole page in their "trailgrams" section). They did however fail to comment back...no balls, basically.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

OneEyedHito said:


> There is always a little thing in the Bay called a Tea Party too though.........OK enough witless banter from me but seriously I agree with your thoughts and experience in combating those that understand little and and those that want to understand less, but I still feel that the magazine brings to light a topic that doesn't really have any point being brought up.
> 
> For the record I live in the MidWest where we are just building our first genuine Downhill Run of 3 in a local City Owned Park and we will have SIGNAGE out of the wazzou about it being Triple Black Diamond with FEATURES and ONE WAY TRAFFIC ONLY, so there is a good chance if this is a REAL issue then we will encounter it at some point. In all reality though the REAL DH that I want to ride is in a PAY FOR PLAY Park and with the LIFT necessity I can't see it never being in that type of environment just like DH Skiing or Snowboarding is, but that doesn't mean I can't take my snowboard to a hill and ride down it either......
> 
> ...


I think the most telling feature in your response is that your work (and congratulations on this success) takes place in a part of the country which has a relatively low population density. Here in the Bay Area population density is high and the open spaces are claimed and controlled by Park districts and such. The use of the trails has been long established and controlled by hikers and equestrians. Access for any kind of mountain biking is a real challenge and there are substantial forces at hand who want to make sure that access is not granted or enhanced.

I was speaking with the president of the Bicycle Trails Council of the East Bay about the downhill discipline. As both of us are mountain bikers of over 25 years experience our style of riding is somewhat more modest. We have neither the desire or the abilities to ride as downhill riders do. 20 years ago I would have put my tire against yours anytime! No armor, no full-faced helmet, no dual suspension. 

Having said that, however, we feel it is important to advocate for downhill-specific venues in our local parks. One would have to be obtuse to suggest that the strict downhill nature of the downhill method is easily compatible with the more varied usage of trails by XC riders in a densely populated area. It might be very different in a lower density area, clearly different out in the middle of nowhere.

What this article does is tries to establish a method for managing these stresses before the people who are in control exclude us all together for all future use.


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> What this article does is tries to establish a method for managing these stresses before the people who are in control exclude us all together for all future use.


BUT...

It's a method that makes little sense, and the fact is, the ONLY thing that will relieve the tension of user conflict is having *some* user specific trail systems. Problem is, fast & ignorant riders don't just come with full face helmets & triple clamp forks... even once you eliminate the problem of DH specific trails, you end up with the simple issue of people who don't know better or just don't CARE. They exist, and their group seems to be growing!

As for the population density issue... people change, the world changes, and the needs/ wants of the population is changing. Land mgmt groups need to change with that.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

backcountryislife said:


> BUT...
> As for the population density issue... people change, the world changes, and the needs/ wants of the population is changing. Land mgmt groups need to change with that.


I think you are far too off-handed with this thought. This is an extremely difficult and intrenched problem which has seen 22 years of concerted effort to budge. Even IMBA runs scared of this situation.

As I said, we have 7.5 million people here in the SF Bay area, more than the entire state of Wisconsin. What is your local population?


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

Hey bud... it's not my fault you live somewhere that is filled with stinking PEOPLE instead of trails!!!


I live in CO, nearly 1/2 the land here is public... and we still deal with the same issue.
100,000+ square miles for under 5 million people, most of which are all along one little strip. (24 people per square mile in my county) The issue no matter how much land you have is the managers are stuck in their ways & don't want to work with new ideas. I get that it's harder in denser areas, but it's the same issue & the same people.

btw, I don't say it out of hand... I say it out of necessity.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

backcountryislife said:


> I don't say it out of hand... I say it out of necessity.


True that, if only to keep some sense that we are not crazy.:thumbsup:


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

backcountryislife said:


> Hey bud... it's not my fault you live somewhere that is filled with stinking PEOPLE instead of trails!!!


Yeah, it's a real beotch living in California.


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## alldownhillfromhere (May 3, 2011)

daisycutter said:


> I hate to admit it but we dh riders shoot ourselves in the foot
> 
> http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_17721077?IADID=Search-www.dailycamera.com-www.dailycamera.com


WTF... I this $hit for real???? Are they really b!tching about a little bike trail though the woods... and complaining that people are tearing up a DEAD log on the ground with their chain rings. What the heck is wrong with that???? How pathetic...
Around here that trail would be tore to crap with ATVs and dirtbikes and they would have something to complain about then.
I have never heard anyone around here having a problem with riding mountain bikes on ANY trail or piece of land.
These environmental Nazi's have got to get a grip... its getting out of control!!
...and WTF is an "Illegal trail"
Sorry but this type of crap makes me sooo mad.:madmax:
.


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## Gilly32 (Mar 28, 2010)

i dont tear up dead logs with my chain ring........... i have a bash guard :thumbsup:


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

alldownhillfromhere said:


> WTF... I this $hit for real???? Are they really b!tching about a little bike trail though the woods... and complaining that people are tearing up a DEAD log on the ground with their chain rings. What the heck is wrong with that???? How pathetic...
> Around here that trail would be tore to crap with ATVs and dirtbikes and they would have something to complain about then.
> I have never heard anyone around here having a problem with riding mountain bikes on ANY trail or piece of land.
> These environmental Nazi's have got to get a grip... its getting out of control!!
> ...


You've got to understand the context. It's Boulder, which is kinda like being in California. (which is SOOOO great, that they keep moving here to CO!)
They've got some good ideals... but it's filled with people who are WAY over the top & took those good ideas WAY too far. It's not reality as you & I know it. People who live in EITHER place knew what they were getting into, so they get what they deserve when dealing with these people.

And yes... riding on BARE DIRT:nono: and tearing up a DEAD TREE!!! Yep, "downhill" mountain biking is a scary thing, be afraid!

The funniest part of the nazis is that they don't realize that when someone rides by on a bike, or on a snowmobile, that animals don't register it as a threat like they do if someone is walking. I can ride RIGHT by an animal, but the problem is when I get off the sled or bike to take pics, even if I rode way closer, then tried taking pics from further away. The nazis just don't get it.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

If the NRA posted in their news letter that hand guns or AR's should be banned they would lose EVERY ONE of their supporters. Why not MBA?


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

LarryFahn said:


> If the NRA posted in their news letter that hand guns or AR's should be banned they would lose EVERY ONE of their supporters. Why not MBA?


That is exactly what I was getting at. Well said.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

LarryFahn said:


> If the NRA posted in their news letter that hand guns or AR's should be banned they would lose EVERY ONE of their supporters.


This is just a statement of wishful thinking or begging the argument of the presumed validity of opposing what was presented. It is fallacious reasoning.

So I don't agree; it would simply galvanize its constituency. It would press the readers to come up with their own plans if they do not like the one suggested. Little has been done here that is of any constructive value.

Jim311 suggests:

"Maybe downhillers and freeriders wouldn't be building stunts and trails on public land if the fawking public would give them some land and some stunts that were legit."

This simple statement topuches on so many ideas and, as such, may speak to the crux of the issue; where do DH'ers ride, what do they want, do they build on public land, do they need a special kind of area, why isn't this group provided places to ride, who should create places to ride, are we frustrated.

All of these issues are in this statement.

What is _Your_ solution? I mean besides shaking one's dirt-cover fist and calling people names which is what, with the exception of a small handful of posts, I have seen in this thread.


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> This is just a statement of wishful thinking or begging the argument of the presumed validity of opposing what was presented. It is fallacious reasoning.
> 
> So I don't agree; it would simply galvanize its constituency. It would press the readers to come up with their own plans if they do not like the one suggested. Little has been done here that is of any constructive value.
> 
> ...


well... then what do YOU suggest? Some of us shaking fists... also actually do work toward helping the issue

I know here the idea is simply work with us forest circus & work toward some usable trails, same thing with county & local officials (with GREAT results lately), and hopefully we'll eventually have a reasonable quantity of trails that are enjoyable & make people want to go ride them rather than building off of the multi use trails.

There are 3 freeride type parks within 40 min from me now that have opened or will be opening just within a year, this is the result of people not sitting around & hoping, but working to make it happen. (and shaking their dirty fists at MBA...)


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

backcountryislife said:


> There are 3 freeride type parks within 40 min from me now that have opened or will be opening just within a year, this is the result of people not sitting around & hoping, but working to make it happen. (and shaking their dirty fists at MBA...)


What are "parks'?

Pay or public?


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> What are "parks'?
> 
> Pay or public?


Like this (stolen from XCguy in the CO forum "valmont opening")









Or this, a park in Frisco, CO.










Also another one in Golden, CO

These are community parks. free. (for now anyhow)

There's also a bunch of resorts, but that's a whole different deal. I'm just happy to see more FR type terrain popping up, which will give people with that kind of inclination somewhere to spend time & enjoy. There's also a lot of underground & private stuff around here as well (like my park by my mine) Point is we need options, and right now there is a critical mass moving in that direction around here, and that kind of thing needs to keep spreading, but segregation isn't the answer.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Again; it looks like you have a ton of room. That is a huge factor.

How did you guys make this happen?


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## backcountryislife (Jun 18, 2008)

Room??? Those are all in the cities where it's congested!

I'm not in the city, so I'm not involve din those projects, can't say what that took. Up here we're working toward more actual downhill trails, which has happened in some spots, but it's not easy.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Congratulations and good luck!


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## denverdd (Mar 8, 2009)

*In Santa Cruz DH Shuttlers Are Getting Unwanted Attention*

Due to a very minority of riders, the community near UCSC's awesome, but illegal trail network, is raising a stink.

*Commercial* shuttlers are pissing off the neighbors, and they have filed complaints with rangers, sheriff, water board,and UCSC to try and keep ALL mountain bikers out. 
Unfortunately, it seems like it is another case of a few bad apples.....:madman:

There is a thread in NORCAL section, I can't post links but it is titled "Neighbor conflict: Commerical DH Shuttling at Forest Lakes"

The local Mtb Club MBOSC.org has a write-up as well.


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## arkon11 (Jul 26, 2009)

Although I haven't read through this entire thread, I find the original article, and the premise behind it absolutely ridiculous.

Although about 75% of the riding I do would probably be considered XC or lighter "All-Mountain", but I would NEVER consider closing the trails to downhill bikes. Heck, I wish I had the trails and the skill to ride like half of you DH'ers out there. If anything, this proposed idea will just lead to more illegal traisl.... and you know what, I don't think that's a bad thing.


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## davis trouble (Feb 1, 2008)

CaveGiant said:


> This may be BS, but I still 100% agree with a snowboarding ban.


After 23 years of skiing/snowboarding (6 years and 17 years respectively) I still don't understand the hatred between the two. It seems so petty that after being a part of both crowds for years that they hate each other for virtually the EXACT SAME REASONS. However, they are in fact, two different sports. As stated earlier, you still have Alta, Deer Valley and a few other "havens" in which you don't have to intermingle with snowboarders so don't complain - it makes you sound elitist.

DH and XC, while having their differences, are still both using a bicycle and MBA shouldn't bash one over the other. They used to be the sole voice for our sport years ago and should continue to support any and all mountain bikes. Unfortunately, this isn't the case.


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## michaelblade (Oct 18, 2006)

*Freedom*

I read every post and have come to the conclusion that you all suck DS without a straw.
JUST KIDDING. Truth is all MTB riding will get under the gun as time goes on. All MTB riders need to form a COR. Confederation Of Riders. It's not that difficult to get it going and all types of riders would be involved.All existing clubs would participate too. It's not about some quimby that spouts in a magazine article. There is no real threat in that. But if an XC rider runs into a hiker and causes the helicopter to come then the media gets it going and people who don't even hike or ride all of a sudden are getting a negative feed on Mt. Bikes. Or it could be a FR, or an AM,or me riding my DJ bike down the hill from my jumps that are built on land that has been raped and terraced by the developers. Infighting makes no sense.
As for MBA , I haven't bought an issue since the one about a 5K bike wearing out in 2 years or whatever.I didn't buy that one. Bikes aint cheap these days but neither are balsa wood surfboards.($2500.)
Starting a Confederation Of Riders is the best solution I can come up with. It's really easy to get started. But if no one is into it then it wont happen and there will be no really effective way to stand up to the Cant Understand Normal Thinking types.
I'd love to ride a 25lb bike up some of the hills that I ride down on my 43lb bike. But a lite bike would give me insecurity. And at 62yrs old I have enough of that. I just hope I have time to build and ride a dual crown flier.
Enough about me. This idea is for all Mt.Bikers now and for the future riders. At least think about it and consider the possibilities.It's mostly about freedom.I realize that DH riders are being pointed out here but the solution will benefit all riders.
[email protected]


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## CombatMutt (Jan 3, 2011)

ambassadorhawg said:


> I'm keeping my subscription to MBA, I like the pretty pictures...I never took the opinions seriously and neither should you...


By buying the magazine, you are supporting those opinions and articles. If you want pretty pictures, Decline is pure bike porn.


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## lubes17319 (Dec 19, 2005)

OneEyedHito said:


> .......some politician will take our LUBES away...........
> 
> Sincerely,
> An actor who doesn't want to be blacklisted as a Commie!


If it's somewhere nice w/good grub & beers, I wouldn't mind too much.


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