# Tubes vs Tubeless and tire pressure



## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

So the recent post by Sisu has really highlighted just how wildly different we maintain tire pressures, which got me curious, thus this poll.


----------



## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

Just to be clear, we are talking specifically on a mountain bike tandem, right?

I'll assume that is the criteria.

It is noteworthy as to the tire size and rim width coupled with team weight. But I'm probably getting in the weeds here...


----------



## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Yes on both counts. Yes, mountain tandem, and Yes, there are lots of other variables.


----------



## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Well, not much hapn'n here. 

With the scant data available I will make the reckless assertion that those with tubeless wheels tend to run lower pressure than those with tubes. 

BTW, the one response of tubes and lower than 30 was mine, by mistake. Couldn't figure out how to un-vote.


----------



## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

I am impressed at the low pressures here. If I ran less than 50 I feel I would pinch flat. Is there a difference in tire builds that really help tandems?


----------



## ebnelson (Oct 30, 2006)

moving to 2.5" 50mm 29er rim in the front we can lower down to 25psi without side knob squirm. With a 2.4" on a 35mm we used 30psi.


----------



## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Funrover said:


> I am impressed at the low pressures here. If I ran less than 50 I feel I would pinch flat. Is there a difference in tire builds that really help tandems?


Hi Funrover,

We are a 350 pound team without gear, not exactly light-weight like those svelt Orlinskis  I built up a tubeless wheelset (you can do it!) with Mavic EX823 rims designed for downhill riding EX 823 Disc | Mavic - United States paired with Continental 2.4 Trail King tires. We run in the low 20s and routinely ride through sharp, edgy, rocky terrain. 








We really appreciate the added traction that the low pressure affords in the frequent loose-on-loose climbs on our desert trails.









For unknown reasons, we recently did our "usual" loop with 30 psi and the difference was noticeable and resulted in a couple of unexpected HABs.

We simply do not get flats, we've logged 500 miles so far this year, 99% desert singletrack, without a single flat. I can't imagine anything other than tubeless and I thoroughly and enthusiastically recommend them to everyone I talk to.


----------



## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

ki5ka said:


> ...
> 
> We simply do not get flats, *we've logged 500 miles so far this year, 99% desert singletrack, without a single flat. * I can't imagine anything other than tubeless and I thoroughly and enthusiastically recommend them to everyone I talk to.


:nono::nono::nono: You're not supposed to say that you have been XX miles without a flat...

True, tubeless works, just don't talk about it!!!


----------



## ebnelson (Oct 30, 2006)

That's probably as much of an endorsement of Continental Trail Kings as it is of tubeless with sealant. We've ripped the a couple of Maxxis Ardent's in the past year.


----------



## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

ds2199 said:


> :nono::nono::nono: You're not supposed to say that you have been XX miles without a flat...
> 
> True, tubeless works, just don't talk about it!!!


 lol I better go check and make sure that tube is still in my pack!


----------



## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

ebnelson said:


> That's probably as much of an endorsement of Continental Trail Kings as it is of tubeless with sealant. We've ripped the a couple of Maxxis Ardent's in the past year.


Like the rim, the Trail Kings are a heavy tire, but I do think they are a crucial part of the equation. It took some effort and several returns to get the model that is labeled as "UST" rather than "Tubeless Ready". I recall reading that the UST labeled model has more material in the sidewall.

Retailers seem unaware of the difference and often insist there is no such model and replace it with the "Tubeless Ready" even when I have made the point of insisting that I only want the UST. I will get a chance to compare because I had the same thing happen again the last time I bought tires. I called ahead to ask them to confirm that they had the UST model, they said they did, I asked again when I bought them but didn't look at the label myself. Silly me . So my next set will be the "Tubeless Ready" model and we shall see how they stack up.


----------



## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

TK 2.4 Apex BC are bomb proof... But like said, dang! they're heavy.

That's why I went to it's little bro on my AM whip i.e. MK-II 2.4 Apex BC :woot:


----------



## ebnelson (Oct 30, 2006)

I used to really like the Mavic UST system back in the day. The UST tires have a bit more rubber to hold pressure, sans sealant, and a rubber extension on the bead for easy pump up. So nice to be able to just use a floor pump every time and no Stan's monsters to clean up after a few months.


----------



## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

I'm on a 26" ECDM. Tubed in the front and tubeless ProCore in the rear. I run ~20psi up front and 15 psi in the tire w/50 psi in the procore chamber in the rear. I am 160#, my stoker is ~50 lbs. Currently thinking about upgrading my 10yo ECDM to a 27.5 one so I can run 2.8's. We ride rocky technical terrain. No flat issues.


----------



## ebnelson (Oct 30, 2006)

I've got to thank you laksboy for the tip on ProCore. I'm using it front and rear now it is a real game changer to ride whatever pressure provides the best grip and ride over the minimum needed to avoid pinch flats.

We flatted yesterday on Porcupine Rim after bombing down most of the trail. We rode on the ProCore until I noticed the flat. The sealant did it's job when I put some quick fill CO2 in the tire. Jumped back on the bike and rode the rest of the way with no issues.


----------



## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

ds2199 said:


> :nono::nono::nono: You're not supposed to say that you have been XX miles without a flat...
> 
> True, tubeless works, just don't talk about it!!!


Dan, got our first flat at Lake Pleasant Arizona. Of course, did not have my pack with me (NEVER ride without it) so ended up walking out. Flatted when we hit an outcropping crossing a dry creek bed. Almost like a snakebite, punched a hole in the sidewall. Tire was the same set as when I posted above!


----------



## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

We have had major self-steering issues at anything less than 20psi (and that is with 4 inch tires). Strange that no one else has reported the problem.


----------

