# All Things Charlie Cunningham



## modifier (May 11, 2007)

I thought I would start a thread to get anything that Mr Cunningham designed and built in one place. 

Indians. Racers. Road bikes. Components and early WTB while he was still involved.

I have always had great respect for what that man could do. It's too bad that he stopped making bikes.

I have not as of yet had the pleasure of owning one of his bikes but have dreamed of it for many years. I have some early WTB stuff and I got to hang out with his girlfriend for a couple of days back in the mid 80s at a race on the east coast but that's as close as I got. Jacquie was racing on her Cunningham with worn out Snake Belly tires. Seems like she was in the top 10 of the men. Joe Murray won the expert class that weekend.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Have you checked out the site I put together? www.cunninghambikes.com


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Just found this shot of the man himself with his lady herself. No idea if they are still together.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

If you're asking whether Charlie and Jacquie are still together, yes, they are. Both of them are still awesome people.


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## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

bushpig said:


> Have you checked out the site I put together? www.cunninghambikes.com


I was just about to suggest that particular site. Worth reading and re-reading further :thumbsup: . By the way Bushpig, what happened to the section where he recounts the experience of climbing that California Redwood, seems to be missing now.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

bushpig said:


> Have you checked out the site I put together? www.cunninghambikes.com


Yes I have seen it before and was just on there a minute ago checking things out.

Any shots of #1 ?

Oh good work btw


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Here ya go


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

what's the story on the segmented fork?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Charlie built in circa 1979 as a nice fork for the fat tires. Cool stem too!


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

neat. it certainly looks cool. but as far as he was concerned, it was an evolutionary dead-end? or did he do others?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

It basically turned into the Type II. He has at least one on on another bike, but the Type II is definitely the preferred route.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Cool Ringle seatpost skewer too!


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Ha!


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

they are pretty different designs. I guess I just wonder about what the rationale was from the segmented to the Type II. the latter are pretty labor intensive too, no?


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

yo-Nate-y said:


> they are pretty different designs. I guess I just wonder about what the rationale was from the segmented to the Type II. the latter are pretty labor intensive too, no?


The rational is to keep it strong by having larger diameter thicker wall tubing at the top where the stress is and to resist brake flex and also have smaller thinner more flexible tubing below for a smother ride. Steve Potts still makes and sells the fork with modern additions like disc brake compatible.

On another note I couldn't afford an Indian but I did buy a Mantis in 1984 and if you look at it you can see my appreciation for Cunningham. I'm not going to post it here but if you look on the Mantis thread I put some pics on there a couple of days ago. LD stem WTB drops etc.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

The bike hanging in front of Charlie is so rad. What's he up to these days?


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## Austin Dave (Jul 7, 2010)

Vlad said:


> The bike hanging in front of Charlie is so rad. What's he up to these days?


He's busy being awesome. When I found out I my bike had a T-cam brake I contacted DKG because I learned from their site (google took me there) that they did the machine work for the arms and I wanted to know more about it. They said, "call Charlie." And so I called him and he was just fantastic to talk to.

He's still engineering and machining magical-genius bike parts. In fact, we learned on disassembly that the alloy binding washers on my brake were cracked. I wrote and asked CC what to do about it (What can I use to replace them?). He said that those alloy washers always eventually crack, were NOT part of his design, and he'd send me heat treated steel replacements for a very modest sum. And he did.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

I look forward to following this thread....

Here is 6A...


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

man, that one looks so perfect.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

modifier said:


> Indians. Racers. Road bikes.


Here's number 42


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Very nice! Does that have a wide hub/fork?


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

yo-Nate-y said:


> man, that one looks so perfect.


Thanks Nate- The frame, fork, stem, hs, brakes, bb and a few of the parts are basically new. It was a demo bike that never sold and from what I was told it may have never been ridden (which is a shame).


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

stan lee said:


> Very nice! Does that have a wide hub/fork?


no, not this one, standard spacing.

"Charlie Feature" on this bike include some fire road geometry though,

19' C-T Seat Tube
24" C-C Top Tube
18" Chain stays
44" Wheelbase


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)




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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


>


Fer what, the tire?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Now-a-days, ya.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Rumpfy said:


> Now-a-days, ya.


Good job on that, fellas.


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

Does anyone know if I can get a spring for my roller cam brakes ,and where? Thanks.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

rangeriderdave said:



> Does anyone know if I can get a spring for my roller cam brakes ,and where? Thanks.


What kiiiind of roller cam brakes?


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

*kind?*

Sorrry WTB/ Cunningham from around 1988


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Don't forget this one.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> Don't forget this one.


Buckwheat Bike 

Nice :thumbsup:


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## RobynC (Feb 14, 2004)

:thumbsup: And the spare cam is there because....


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Because he had to open up the rear brake so that trashed wheel will roll.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

RobynC said:


> :thumbsup: And the spare cam is there because....


It's an aerodynamic aid, creates downforce


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## jacquie phelan (Oct 1, 2009)

"On another note I couldn't afford an Indian but I did buy a Mantis in 1984 and if you look at it you can see my appreciation for Cunningham" 
Dear Modifier
I am hoping you know that Richard Cunningham's bikes were called Mantis. 
And Charlie's were called a few things: Indian, Racer, Little People's bike, Wombat, whatever. Just making sure you know there are two cunninghams (actually, a few more).
But anyway. Just checking. 
Chris (Robyn): you look criminal in those Factory Pilots, christ!
and uh, see kay isn't the buckwheatcyles Don Mertle's beleaguered old nag?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

jacquie phelan said:


> "On another note I couldn't afford an Indian but I did buy a Mantis in 1984 and if you look at it you can see my appreciation for Cunningham"
> Dear Modifier
> I am hoping you know that Richard Cunningham's bikes were called Mantis.
> And Charlie's were called a few things: Indian, Racer, Little People's bike, Wombat, whatever. Just making sure you know there are two cunninghams (actually, a few more).
> But anyway. Just checking.


He does. His R. Cunningham is built in the spirit of C. Cunningham with the Gooseneck and drops...


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

JP, 
How about a few pics in the spirit of the thread. To me nothing says (C) Cunningham more than a photo of you riding "Otto".
Respectfully,
T


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## neo_pop_71 (Apr 11, 2008)

crconsulting said:


> Buckwheat Bike
> 
> Nice :thumbsup:


**************************************************

Hey, I just noticed that the Buckwheat bike has a Cook Brothers handlebar... other than the one on my Smorgasbord, I've only seen a handful of those bars over the years!

What's the story with that bike?

-D-


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

neo_pop_71 said:


> What's the story with that bike?


I'm sure there's at least a dozen people now making a new friend, who will ask that same exact question


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

I want to see that bike when it's down to 3 spokes in the back. I dig that FD too.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

jacquie phelan said:


> And Charlie's were called a few things: Indian, Racer, Little People's bike, Wombat, whatever.


Not Current Pricing


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

*the secret of my success,*

is having the funds in 1982, and the sense to pull the trigger. #7.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

#CBC is so hot. My Racer weighs more like 23 lbs...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

...


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

*#c?*

and a fine pic of its former owner at the top of the page.tracy smith is still a hammer.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Wow, that is a nice one. I really wish I owned that bike!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

.....


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

*and i wish*

i still had it.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Did anyone ever recover Ham #10 after it was stolen?


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

den haag said:


> i still had it.


Nice!!:thumbsup: 
Interesting setup for a Cook Bros. 

How did you end up with that setup on a Cook?

Did you get the frame form Don at the Cove?
Got any more pictures of that?


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

*cunningham/cooks*

i bought the fork from steve cook after he cracked the steer tube. it still had plenty of thread, and i was going to replace the type one on my cunningham with it, but decided to keep my #7 original. and it took me a while to piece together the brake. i bought the cooks used from neil murdoch in 1980. #7 languished at the cove bike shop for a while.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

den haag said:


> . #7 languished at the cove bike shop for a while.


I'm sure it was a pretty penny when you got it. I probably couldn't have afforded a cunningham back then even if I saw it there : )

I got my Cook Bros stuff and a bunch of other parts to build my bike from the Cove.

I wanted a trailmaster bad, but would have had to wait too long : (


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

den haag said:


> and a fine pic of its former owner at the top of the page.tracy smith is still a hammer.


Wow- great photo! Here is another one of Tracy's bikes.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

stan lee said:


> Wow- great photo! Here is another one of Tracy's bikes.


Nice photo. That one looks a decent amount smaller, no?


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Nice photo. That one looks a decent amount smaller, no?


Yeah it does- this one looks smaller. The guy I got it from had some pictures of TS racing it with drops and he said it came with both stems but he sold the LD years ago.


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## jacquie phelan (Oct 1, 2009)

modifier said:


> Just found this shot of the man himself with his lady herself. No idea if they are still together.


This is perhaps why BushPig has been such a great "all things Charlie Cunningham" accumulator. He's our..uh...'kid' (he volunteered for the job at 15) and now he's doing all the things one's kid does when one gets old. 
Cleans out the gutters (=helps Jacquie with her computer problems)
Rakes the yard (gathers old "Hams" from around the world--hoards them, more accurately) to keep them 'safe'.
And most of all, knows us as well as anyone can.
Cunninghambikes.com is very useful.
What it can't, or perhaps doesn't NEED to do is be the talking spot. Perhaps this is where "Almost all things Cunningham" will be entertaining useful.
You can learn about us ("if they're together or not") by looking on the web. 
[email protected]


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Oh, I'm blushing now.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

modifier said:


> Components and early WTB while he was still involved


from one of CK's fat tire flyer mags.


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## Austin Dave (Jul 7, 2010)

Here is a link on another thread that should be in this thread too. 
--DW
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=7633051&postcount=21


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## ephsea (Feb 22, 2010)

*dating wtb parts*

Just wondering if anyone had firm knowledge of the circa 2000ish WTB stuff. Looking for 2000 catalog scans? Or a way to determine whether some of my vintage WTB parts are pre or post Cunningham. How about the hubs w/ the "grease guard inside" logo that looked like intel's? Anyone got the year/s on those? Did WTB continue to produce any Cunningham designs after 2000? Or did everything instantly go to s**t as soon as they fired the genius?
Are all momentum and paradigm stuff Cunningham era?


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## halaburt (Jan 13, 2004)

ephsea said:


> Just wondering if anyone had firm knowledge of the circa 2000ish WTB stuff. Looking for 2000 catalog scans? Or a way to determine whether some of my vintage WTB parts are pre or post Cunningham. How about the hubs w/ the "grease guard inside" logo that looked like intel's? Anyone got the year/s on those? Did WTB continue to produce any Cunningham designs after 2000? Or did everything instantly go to s**t as soon as they fired the genius?
> Are all momentum and paradigm stuff Cunningham era?


Several sites have posted scans of various WTB catalogs:
http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/html/wtb.html
http://mombat.org/WTB.htm
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=5747

I'd suggest that there's no perfect black/white cutoff date that correlates the relative quality of components to Charlie's (or Steve Pott's) departure.

The Momentum line predates their departures by many years, yet were cheap ("affordable") Taiwanese-made parts that most WTB connoisseurs wouldn't use.

Other the other hand, some good, earlier designs continued for years (a couple even today): Velociraptor and Nanoraptor tires, Original (a naming misnomer) Trailgrips, etc.


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## ephsea (Feb 22, 2010)

*A Jacquie Phelan story*

How I got into "VRC" bikes - by F.C.

A few years ago I got a call from my buddy here in Kansas City saying that there was a bunch of cyclists giving away free vodka at a local bar for some promo. "Say no more I'm on my way!". Shortly thereafter I arrive and immediately have lots of cheap vodka and cheaper merch. pushed on me by this extremely vivacious woman with dreadlocks (I have no idea who Jacquie or Charlie are at this point, I just know I love to ride bikes). This Jacquie is really engaging, and we all ended up hanging out, and I find out that Jacquie used to race mtb's, and that her husband used to build race bikes and founded WTB (I've heard of them but they suck, right?) We had some beers and went to the art museum and had a great time! A few days later I'm cleaning the '93 S-Works and notice that the GG fittings (which I love) on my xc pro hubs are a WTB design. Looking closer at the abused saddle (my favorite saddle) it is apparently also a WTB. Research is req'd...Mombat is found (thanks First Flight!)... A few years later and I've read all the MTB history I can find and fight with ya'll on the Bay for Cunningham parts!


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## ephsea (Feb 22, 2010)

Also curious as to how often/what grease people use on their Grease Guard hubs? I've been goosing in Rock'n Roll every few hundred mi. with the occasional shot of ProGold for the ptfe with great results. And what screws into the plastic adapter on my Grease Gooser? Is it Grease Goose only? Any modern grease tubes fit these?


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## halaburt (Jan 13, 2004)

ephsea said:


> Also curious as to how often/what grease people use on their Grease Guard hubs?...


See here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=630464


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

First the setup.

I put 1.5 slicks on my P-21 and took it for a road ride, ending up in downtown Mill Valley. There I saw an eclectic assembly of bikes, virtually all custom and unusual, a group that had ridden over from SF and planned to head up Railroad Grade. A couple of them recognized me from the Gary Fisher wedding, so I hung out and talked with them, found out it was a group celebrating the birthday of one of the riders.

A rider flashed past, and I instantly recognized him from the back as Charlie Cunningham. Like all of my cycling friends, I can pick out people I know on their bikes from a long way off just by the way they ride, even from the back. So I yelled, "Hey Charlie!"

No response. I added an identifier, but since yelling my own name wouldn't help, I used the informal handle. "It's CK!" I was acknowledged by a hand briefly leaving the handlebar to show me the back of the glove, but Charlie was already 200 feet past us, then gone. CC does not hang out in crowds of more than one other person.

Only then did I notice this bike. I got a quick snap, but the group was already moving out, and I never got the rider's name.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

That's a beaut!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Aaaand the hunt is on!


Pretty bike.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

#1c


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

27.2 nitto post?


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## halaburt (Jan 13, 2004)

Probably 27.0.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

DoubleCentury said:


> #1c


Not on the website. Weak sauce!


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## RobynC (Feb 14, 2004)

Back in '95 I was walking along Throckmorton in downtown Mill Valley. In front of a restaurant were two Hams propped up against the window. I loudly made a comment like "Holy ____ !" Then I look up. In the restaurant sitting at a table were Charlie and Jacquie (at that point I hadn't met them yet). 

I'll never forget it. Jacquie had a look on her face like "Oh GAWD who is this idiot", but Charlie was grinning ear to ear and gave me the nod. Thoroughly embarrassed, I think I did a quick thumbs up and kept walking.

I love Marin.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

RobynC said:


> Back in '95 I was walking along Throckmorton in downtown Mill Valley. In front of a restaurant were two Hams propped up against the window. I loudly made a comment like "Holy ____ !" Then I look up. In the restaurant sitting at a table were Charlie and Jacquie (at that point I hadn't met them yet).
> 
> I'll never forget it. Jacquie had a look on her face like "Oh GAWD who is this idiot", but Charlie was grinning ear to ear and gave me the nod. Thoroughly embarrassed, I think I did a quick thumbs up and kept walking.
> 
> I love Marin.


Haha, nice.


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)

What is they story of the CC designed, nitto made bottle cage?

Is it based on the R-Cage model or the R-Cage is based on the CC cage?

CC cage









R-cage


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## halaburt (Jan 13, 2004)

Machianera said:


> What is they story of the CC designed, nitto made bottle cage?


Have you already seen this?: Nitto Cages

Although in the US we generally only get/see the Nitto "R", they actually make 3 sizes:
"R" for standard bike bottles
"500" for 500ml clear plastic grocery store bottles
"L" for 1L (or 1.5L) clear plastic grocery store bottles

They all look the same -- just scaled up or down. The cage mentioned on cunninghambikes.com is the "L" (now sold out from that source).

I personally like what I call the "XL"


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks for the info. i have the 1L but i did't know the xl was actually a production cage. 
Wonder why you don't see those on C bikes.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

halaburt said:


> Have you already seen this?: Nitto Cages
> 
> Although in the US we generally only get/see the Nitto "R", they actually make 3 sizes:
> "R" for standard bike bottles
> ...


Use caution when deciding where to mount your XL cage.
Sometimes a bike has so much 'Ham that it becomes a Sow


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Shayne said:


> Use caution when deciding where to mount your XL cage.
> Sometimes a bike has so much 'Ham that it becomes a Sow


Haha! Poor thing with all those holes in it. :sad:


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## halaburt (Jan 13, 2004)

Machianera said:


> i have the 1L but i did't know the xl was actually a production cage.


Ha ha... it's not. The formula for these was: 2L + CC = XL


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

*Shedding Skin*


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Somewhere, Halaburt just fainted.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Good thread to bring back.


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## Austin Dave (Jul 7, 2010)

Rumpfy said:


> Good thread to bring back.
> 
> Wow. More about this please!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Austin Dave said:


> Wow. More about this please!


Ya seen one, ya seen em' all right? 

83/84 Indian with slopping tt and oversized post.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

*Old Photos*

Some of you may recall the Cunningham "#1" bike that appeared for sale on MTBR. I'd known about this bike for some time but had never seen any photos of it. It was significant because Steve Cook rode it to a number of victories, which gave proof to the bike community that aluminum could be used to make a durable mountain bike.

One of my favorite vintage photos, this is Steve racing the Crested Butte Stage Race and descending back down to the Slate River. The drop bars are mounted on an SR Swan stem.

(Click on photos to enlarge)








credit: Scott article

Steve again, probably at the Eldora National in 1984. Charlie raced his "Green Machine" at this same event.








credit: Epperson photo

Steve leading Dale Stetina of Team Ritchey,








credit: Epperson photo

The #7 Cunningham at the Eldora National , owned by forum member Den Haag.








credit: Epperson photo

A RAAM champion with her Ham,








credit: Kaplan photo

Perhaps the world's only Ham with a child's seat,








credit: Epperson photo

Cunningham Team rider before jerseys were printed,








credit: Kelly article


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Great photos DC!!


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## GMF (Jan 10, 2004)

I, too, am super digging those pics. I could have been that kid in the child's seat when most of these were taken!


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

these are great pics! the shot of me on my #7 was also at the '84 eldora nationals.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

*My Favorite Photo*

This is my favorite Ham photo, by Wende Cragg, showing Charlie in Crested Butte for the Pearl Pass weekend and riding his PROTO bike, and doing it all his way.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

DoubleCentury said:


> Some of you may recall the Cunningham "#1" bike that appeared for sale on MTBR. I'd known about this bike for some time but had never seen any photos of it. It was significant because Steve Cook rode it to a number of victories, which gave proof to the bike community that aluminum could be used to make a durable mountain bike.
> 
> One of my favorite vintage photos, this is Steve racing the Crested Butte Stage Race and descending back down to the Slate River. The drop bars are mounted on an SR Swan stem.
> 
> ...


Cool photos DC. Love the race shots. I don't recognize the rider in the camo...


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Cool photos DC. Love the race shots. I don't recognize the rider in the camo...


Kunselman perhaps?


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## victorthewombat (Jan 12, 2004)

*I know that picture*

That's Roy-boy Rivers....but interesting enough he did not race for Ross....


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

victorthewombat said:


> That's Roy-boy Rivers....but interesting enough he did not race for Ross....


If the reference is to the camo rider, it's defintely not Roy Rivers, who is extremely blond.

Funny that article of mine from Winning should turn up. I just ran across it myself as I was going through the files researching my book. Just to keep on topic, here are some photos from my files, CC with his own bike, and a Cunningham t-shirt that I assume you all have anyway.

The last photo is from the 1974 Fairfax Criterium, me on the bike, and Charlie Cunningham jumping for joy.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Repack Rider - pretty sure that isn't Charlie C in the last pic. Great pic though.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

bushpig said:


> Repack Rider - pretty sure that isn't Charlie C in the last pic. Great pic though.


Jacquie and Charlie say it is. I'll take their word for it.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Want to place a friendly wager, perhaps a pitcher next time I'm in your neck of the woods? The Pig is thirsty!


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## donk (Jan 28, 2004)

I saw my first cunningham in person on the weekend. 

Really neat to see it cruising along dundas street at brock street in toronto. 

If it was you, I wanted to say something, but figured you've probably heard it all before.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

donk said:


> I saw my first cunningham in person on the weekend.
> 
> Really neat to see it cruising along dundas street at brock street in toronto.
> 
> If it was you, I wanted to say something, but figured you've probably heard it all before.


Dollars to donuts, that'd be Mossey Oak - Mossey Oak Gallery - Mtbr Mountain Bike Photo Gallery

Good Ham to spot - that bike is no joke. Straight from day one.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Cunningham 29"  Black Mountain Cycles: Twenty years in the making...


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

*#7 is red.*

i know, but i never really liked the purple(berry) much. it's imron, and real nice! more pics when the paint gets a little harder.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Looks sharp Sandy!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

den haag said:


> i know, but i never really liked the purple(berry) much. it's imron, and real nice! more pics when the paint gets a little harder.


Did you paint it yourself?


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

the paint was done by mike johnson of wheelfine imports, here in lambertville,n.j. he paints during his slow winter months and uses dupont imron with an epoxy based primer.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

den haag said:


> the paint was done by mike johnson of wheelfine imports, here in lambertville,n.j. he paints during his slow winter months and uses dupont imron with an epoxy based primer.


No offense, den haag, but the paint appears to be really, really thick? And did he just paint over things like cable guides? I love the bike and painted hams are really beautiful, in my opinion, but just to use a part time painter seems like a recipe for mediocrity.

Again, super lovely bike. I'm excited that you're going to ride it again. Best of luck on putting it together and getting it on the road again.

love the koski fork as well. Do you have a project in mind for it?


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

you're probably right regarding the thickness of the paint. i got this bike with bondo on all the welds and cable stops. it's my intention to ride this, not hang it in a museum. the koski fork is going on my cooks bros cruiser. then what to do with that 'ham type two?


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Good progress Den Haag!

Here is the #6 Ham twin.


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

i've never seen this picture. what a howl! it looks like it lives in a storage unit. nice stickers, too.


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## burritoguru (Aug 22, 2008)

Last I saw, this bike was locked up with the SFPD waiting for its owner. Part of a massive bike theft recovery.
Guessing since you know the number it is in the original owners hands.



DoubleCentury said:


> Good progress Den Haag!
> 
> Here is the #6 Ham twin.
> 
> View attachment 883081


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

den haag said:


> you're probably right regarding the thickness of the paint. i got this bike with bondo on all the welds and cable stops. it's my intention to ride this, not hang it in a museum. the koski fork is going on my cooks bros cruiser. then what to do with that 'ham type two?


From what I can see, paint looks good. I think maybe the bondoed areas make it look thick, but if you look at the cable guides and sharp edges it looks fine. Have to say though, I think I like my hams raw. 

Where's the Koski fork??


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

i had no idea this bike had been stolen. i have had the pleasure of finding a friends ritchey at a police auction.


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

*new paint*

and as to the bondo, this is what it looked like in the catalogue.


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

den haag said:


> here in lambertville,n.j.


Hamilton's Grill Room - we might have to meet up so I can see your Ham before grabbing a bite to eat.


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## merzbild (Oct 29, 2007)

Hi all,

I've re-read this post a few times. There's some really great stuff here.

I was wondering if anyone here can help with a few questions I have about Rollercams. I've build 2 frames designed around Rollercams and I've been using the Suntour XC9000 versions, which have been really good. Then I got myself some of the earlier Suntour rollercams with the linear springs. I thought thye would be an upgrade, but I haven't found them to be as good. It seems like the spring is too stiff, so that if you set it so that the spring returns the arms all the way, then it has ramped up too much at then end of your lever pull.

I looked around for why the linear springs are meant to be better, and all I could find was Charlie Cunningham saying in BQ that linear springs make the brakes self-center. But I'm not sure what he meant. It seems like the centering capacity of either type of spring is sensitive to the relative tension of the springs in exactly the same way. Does anyone know why linear springs are inherently better than coil springs for these brakes?

I know that the nicer WTB versions use linear springs and are different again. Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison of the springs? Do they use flexier springs than the Suntours?

Has anyone ever replaced the springs on a Suntour brake with lighter ones?

Thanks.


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## victorthewombat (Jan 12, 2004)

*Suntour Cam's*

The ST brake was also a pain to set up, which is paramount to the brake performing correctly. Spring tension is tricky as the brake should retract but not immediately. That said, the strongest brakes I ever rode was the afternoon I spent on Conrad Oho's un heat treated 22" frame. A monster to ride to be sure, but it stopped on a dime and had Sun Tour brakes not WTB.

VTW



merzbild said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've re-read this post a few times. There's some really great stuff here.
> 
> ...


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

merzbild said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've re-read this post a few times. There's some really great stuff here.
> 
> ...


Yes, the springs are too heavy, even on the WTB in my opinion. So you just take a flat file to them and thin them out tapering them to be thinner on the ends. Fixes the exact problem you are facing and greatly improves brake feedback and feel.


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## merzbild (Oct 29, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Yes, the springs are too heavy, even on the WTB in my opinion. So you just take a flat file to them and thin them out tapering them to be thinner on the ends. Fixes the exact problem you are facing and greatly improves brake feedback and feel.


Thanks. That makes a lot of sense to me. Presumably I need to be really careful about not putting any stress risers in the springs.

Do you file of material all round, or just in the dimension that the spring moves in? Also, do you remove material from above and below the loop, or only from above it?


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## SMRTIN (Dec 17, 2012)

1986 Cunningaham "Kirby" finally coming out of retirement


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

If you're very still, quiet and lucky you might catch a glimpse of one in the wild ...


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

CCMDoc said:


> If you're very still, quiet and lucky you might catch a glimpse of one in the wild ...
> 
> View attachment 1128912


Nice pic Doc, but I'm going to need some close up shots of that bike!

Steve


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

eastcoaststeve said:


> Nice pic Doc, but I'm going to need some close up shots of that bike!
> 
> Steve


YEAH, dedicated thread, please.


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

girlonbike said:


> YEAH, dedicated thread, please.


You're very demanding


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## manuelschafer (Feb 3, 2018)

The few Hams with SS brake configuration,


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## manuelschafer (Feb 3, 2018)

to be mentioned aswell G.H.`s late racebike, RIP
















Charlie’s War | Peter Verdone Designs






www.peterverdone.com


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

manuelschafer said:


> to be mentioned aswell G.H.`s late racebike, RIP
> View attachment 1956908
> 
> 
> ...


I didn´t know .. so sad.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

colker1 said:


> I didn´t know .. so sad.


Dang, I hadn't heard either. F'n cancer.


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## manuelschafer (Feb 3, 2018)

DoubleCentury said:


> *Old Photos*
> 
> credit: Epperson photo
> Cunningham Team rider before jerseys were printed,
> ...





Fillet-brazed said:


> Cool photos DC. Love the race shots. I don't recognize the rider in the camo...





DoubleCentury said:


> Kunselman perhaps?


just landed here to check in,
Norba 1983 Roger Marquis racing for Gene Maruszewski on #26 before it got matched to the team jersey "camo effect"


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

manuelschafer said:


> just landed here to check in,
> Norba 1983 Roger Marquis racing for Gene Maruszewski on #26 before it got matched to the team jersey "camo effect"


Man.... those dudes are BIG.


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## manuelschafer (Feb 3, 2018)

..."Scott N" of and from Ibis on the left


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

I scanned a couple of articles about Charlie from a 1985 issue of _Cyclist_ magazine. One is by my deceased friend, cycling journalist extraordinaire Owen Mulholland, the other written by his future wife Jacquie Phelan.

Here is the link. While you are there, look around at some of the other articles.


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