# Another pic of 'Bonny' in the correct forum...



## loonyOne (Dec 25, 2003)

Shown here in current single speed form...


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## loonyOne (Dec 25, 2003)

Well, posting a pic into the 'Gallery' did not work either, as the pic has to be "approved" before it is shown. I don't have my own webhost, so I'll need an easier option. Attaching pics onto the other board was much easier once I figured out how to resize my pics to be able to post them. Can anyone help me on this?
Tom


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## ArmySlowRdr (Dec 19, 2003)

loonyOne said:


> Well, posting a pic into the 'Gallery' did not work either, as the pic has to be "approved" before it is shown. I don't have my own webhost, so I'll need an easier option. Attaching pics onto the other board was much easier once I figured out how to resize my pics to be able to post them. Can anyone help me on this?
> Tom


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## loonyOne (Dec 25, 2003)

Thanks Army! I actually have been working on a new website through my ISP. It is pretty gay so far, but I will slowly get the knack of it just like anything else. Here's the link should you have any comments or suggestions 
http://home.mchsi.com/~bruttus


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/

loony, go to the above link for a good, reliable(so far) picture host. I've been there for about 6 months now. easy to use as well.


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## loonyOne (Dec 25, 2003)

martini, That is mucho easier than trying to actually design and organize a web page. Plus, it has kind of a lame format. The utwente site is much better. Thanks a bunch. Where in MN are you located?


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Speaking of Bontys... I finally got around to taking a picture of mine. I have two Race Lites, both from '97 (Santa Cruz built, but post-Trek purchase). This one does not see an trail use, and has mostly all '97 8-speed parts. My other Bonty has newer components and still gets ridden on trails regularly, but I can't be bothered to take a picture of it (maybe one day).

Click on the pic for the full size version.


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## GrumpyOne (Jan 7, 2004)

Looks like you're missing something from the Top Tube. 

jw


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Yeah, I could use a set of new stickers. Any chance you want to part with those?


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## loonyOne (Dec 25, 2003)

laffeaux said:


> Yeah, I could use a set of new stickers. Any chance you want to part with those?


I think you can still buy them new from Trek and/or Bontrager 'dealers'. That's what I was told by a guy that works at Trek. When I decide how I want to get mine repainted I am going to find out what colors are available. Damn! I just remembered that the X-local wrench works for Trek, I'll give him a jingle and keep all those interested, posted.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

*Any roadlite sticker sets out there?*

I would love to get hold of some of those. They look much better than the standard in my opinion.

Thanks


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## GrumpyOne (Jan 7, 2004)

Boy named SSue said:


> I would love to get hold of some of those. They look much better than the standard in my opinion.
> 
> Thanks


Like these? And no I'm not selling them. But I'd be happy to scan a set if it would help.

jw


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## TruckeeLocal (Mar 5, 2002)

*How about a Ti Lite ?*

Sorry about the lighting quality ...


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## loonyOne (Dec 25, 2003)

TruckeeLocal said:


> Sorry about the lighting quality ...


Ti + Bontrager = The Holy Grail of mountain biking. If I were to ever have a custom built, it would center around the Bontrager geometry fer sure. All those years ago, the dude was ahead of his time.


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## TruckeeLocal (Mar 5, 2002)

*The Holy Grail*



loonyOne said:


> Ti + Bontrager = The Holy Grail of mountain biking. If I were to ever have a custom built, it would center around the Bontrager geometry fer sure. All those years ago, the dude was ahead of his time.


I think the point about The Holy Grail is that no one knows whether it still exists or not, but the assumption is that it's worth searching for. But let's recognize that while the Bonty Ti-Lite wears its age well it does have some problems ...

1. "Lite" is spelled "Light", even in Santa Cruz - although I can't be sure 'cause I spend my time in Capitola when I'm there
2. The stickers come off, and they're not standard
3. It's got a 1" steerer so upgrading the fork is a problem
4. Dirt sticks to it like glue, especially the Sierra moon dust when mixed with sweat
5. There's no disk brake tabs (but a new fork would allow for a front disk brake)
6. It's build strong, not necessarily light. Mine weighs in at 26 pounds
7. It wasn't actually built in Santa Cruz like other classic Bontys
8. It allows for the use of 'U' brakes - what were they thinking ?
9. I never received my beer glass after I registered it
10. Some folks think that a Bontrager is a Trek sub-brand

Having said that it competes for my attention on off road rides with my Ellsworth Id - it just depends what I feel like doing on the day - fire road climbs and easier single-track get the Bonty.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

TruckeeLocal said:


> I
> 6. It's build strong, not necessarily light. Mine weighs in at 26 pounds
> 9. I never received my beer glass after I registered it


According to the Bontrager catalog, the TI Lite was about 1/2 lighter than the Race Lite, which was 1/2 lighter than the Race. My Race Lite is 25.5 pounds with a heavy Maszocchi fork. Did you fill your fork with lead?

Also, I'm still waiting for my beer glass too. I've moved several times since buying the bike, but I'm sure it will arrive any day.


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## TruckeeLocal (Mar 5, 2002)

*Beer glasses and weight gains*

If you look you can see I don't care about weight. I'm running 2.4" tires (I think they're motoraptors) - on a 1996 bike it's remarkable that there's clearance. And a Brooks saddle. And it stays dirty - an advantage of a Ti frame. I save some weight with the missing stickers though.

And I've been practicing consistently for the day when my beer glass finally arrives.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

*some responses a few things with little order or reason*

The ti-lites weren't the lightest things around but the payoff for the extra material is that they weren't as whippy as many ti bikes tend to be. I switched from a racelite to a ti-lite a few years ago mainly because Bontrager had stopped making frames and I wanted one that would be with me a while. I was surprised by how much the ride differed. The ti-lites are stiffer than their steel brothers.

Truckee, first off, I appologise for being one of the out of towners crowding up your town this weekend.

There are a bunch of Marzocchis available in 1" still. A marathon sl will save maybe a pound off your rockshox. It is a hell of a better fork and you'll save more weight yet going over to threadless, I always hear the estimate of a 1/4lb. The best thing I hear about them is the dampening position that allows the fork to compress about 2/3 into the travel and sit low with around 1" of travel left. It works great for climbs on fireroads and such since you can bring your weight foreward and lower but keep the same position on the bike. You would be able to bring the stem in a little without sacrficing much in climbing ability since the fork can drop to help shift the weight foreward. This would make your bike a little better for the rewards after the climb. There is a picture of KB on the Bontrager web site doing a trans-Alps ride on a ti-lite with this setup. I hope to be switching mine over to this fairly soon. I'm thinking spring. Does anyone have any experience with this fork? I am curious as hell.

Every now and again I think of having disk tabs put on. Has anyone looked into this? The ti-lites are solid. I think they would be good candidates. I guess I would want to contact Bontrager or the company that made them for a greenlight.

-U brakes? What am I missing here. Wouldn't the bosses need to be lower for U's.

-We are riding bikes from 7 years ago, I can forgive the premium given to strength over weight.

-the stickers were ugly (bad), but they come off easily (good). They could have done much better on this one.

-Bontrager is a Trek sub-brand, sad but true. If Bontrager never sold to Trek, there would never have been a ti-lite. There never would have been a bunch of privateers either but oh-well.

Sorry for the rant, and clogging your town.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

*Bonty Ti- Lites*

While we're on the subject of Ti Lites, I'll post this pic again.
Personally I don't like the way they ride. Too twitchey for my tastes. Cramped cockpit.
They are rare and nice to look at though...but perhaps not as rare as Ti Fats...
Or in my case Ti Slingshots.


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## TruckeeLocal (Mar 5, 2002)

Boy named SSue said:


> I guess I would want to contact Bontrager or the company that made them for a greenlight.
> 
> -U brakes? What am I missing here. Wouldn't the bosses need to be lower for U's.
> 
> ...


And some responses ...
First let's note that I'm still using, and enjoying my bike so was being somewhat fascetious about the negatives on the bike

I've had a positive experience contacting Bontrager (and even older - Ritchey). They were helpful but I can't remember what I contacted them about.

The U-brakes - maybe I used the wrong terminology but I'm refering to the brakes that mount under the chain stays and which are designed to clog up with mud. Also my frame has an unused 'braze-on' for a brake cable on the bridge between the seat stays. I've never bothered to file it off.

Damned if I care about weight. My fighting weight when I was semi-pro was between 150 and 160, and now I'm between 190 and 200. Plenty of room to improve there rather than on the bike. I actually prefer a heavier, stiffer, frame to handle the climbing. I've got big tires, a front fork, a comfortable saddle, and a butt to handle the suspension/flex duties.

I saw some neat stickers on some Ti-Lite frames in Germany. But again I don't care. Who cares ? I'm alone out there most of the time and I don't care what anyone thinks of my ride, plus or minus, on the odd occasion when I come across someone. That and Bontys are kind of common up here anyway.

Nor do I care that Bonty sold out to Trek. Mines a real Bonty, almost. And KB has every right to 'sell out', as did Tom Ritchey and others.

Please clog 'my' town. But stick to the weekends if you could. Then we can enjoy the recreational opportunities in peace and quiet during the week at discounted prices. The weekends are the price we pay for a ridiculously good life-style. It's unfair really !


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Boy named SSue said:


> There are a bunch of Marzocchis available in 1" still. A marathon sl will save maybe a pound off your rockshox. It is a hell of a better fork and you'll save more weight yet going over to threadless, I always hear the estimate of a 1/4lb. The best thing I hear about them is the dampening position that allows the fork to compress about 2/3 into the travel and sit low with around 1" of travel left. It works great for climbs on fireroads and such since you can bring your weight foreward and lower but keep the same position on the bike. You would be able to bring the stem in a little without sacrficing much in climbing ability since the fork can drop to help shift the weight foreward. This would make your bike a little better for the rewards after the climb. There is a picture of KB on the Bontrager web site doing a trans-Alps ride on a ti-lite with this setup. I hope to be switching mine over to this fairly soon. I'm thinking spring. Does anyone have any experience with this fork? I am curious as hell.


The Marthon is no longer availalbe in a 1" size. Currently Marzocchi offers their 85mm forks with 1" steerers, but the Marthon is a 105mm fork. If you want a Marathon you'll need to find an older model (most likely used) from previous years when a 80mm form existed. I have a Marathon on my FS bike, and it is a nice fork.

On the Race Lite that I ride a lot (not the orange one above), I have a 2001 Marzocchi Atom Race reduced from 80mm to 70mm of travel. With this reduction, the fork has about the same ride height as an the original Judy. Making the switch to this fork did not save weight, in fact it probably added a 1/2 pound or so. The '97 Judy was quite light (3.4 pounds or so) while the Marzocchi is over 4 pounds. However, performance wise there is no comparison. The Marzocchi provides a significantly better ride. If you still ride your Bontrager a lot, I'd recommend the switch.

The Atom Race that I have does not have the lock-out that you mention. It came on the 2002 and later forks. I do have a lockout on my Marthon (100mm of travel) and it is a great feature. However I'd be less likely to use it on a 80mm fork.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

*Bike Pic*

I'm not sure that this bike is "retro" anymore with it's 9-speed drivetrain and modern fork. It's a '97 frame that I've ridden since buying it new in '98.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

"Please clog 'my' town. But stick to the weekends if you could. Then we can enjoy the recreational opportunities in peace and quiet during the week at discounted prices. The weekends are the price we pay for a ridiculously good life-style. It's unfair really !"

Wow, I used to say the same thing when I lived in Capitola and Santa Cruz. Thanks for returning the favor. I sadly have a job that limits where I can live now. Damn. 

Like you guys have said, Bontrager has always been great at support. I always get good insight and ofter the responses come from Keith. 

Take it easy all.


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## kenjihara (Mar 7, 2006)

TruckeeLocal said:


> I think the point about The Holy Grail is that no one knows whether it still exists or not, but the assumption is that it's worth searching for. But let's recognize that while the Bonty Ti-Lite wears its age well it does have some problems ...
> 
> 1. "Lite" is spelled "Light", even in Santa Cruz - although I can't be sure 'cause I spend my time in Capitola when I'm there
> 2. The stickers come off, and they're not standard
> ...


I bought a '97 Privateer S second-hand from a guy who'd had it for about six months and I registered it and got my glass! It's in the cupboard next to my Fat Tire glass. I'm up to about four Privateers now and one Race.


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## kenjihara (Mar 7, 2006)

laffeaux said:


> I'm not sure that this bike is "retro" anymore with it's 9-speed drivetrain and modern fork. It's a '97 frame that I've ridden since buying it new in '98.


I can't decide if I want to build up my '93 (?) Bontrager frame modern like that, or with more 'retro' stuff. I could go with a Marzocchi MX Comp, threadless Control Tech stem, nine speed XT and v-brakes...

... or I might build it with a '95 Judy, cantilever XT brakes, Bontrager quill stem, and 8 speed XT. What do you lot think?

By the way, a Bontrager frame of that year... is it an 'OR' (?) or is it a Race? The seatstays are the stepped ones, the head tube is normal, and the housing stops are welded, but the end of the tube where the stays split off into the wishbone has the plastic plug in the end and the dropouts are semi-horizontal.

I've got a Privateer I can build up 'updated', and keep the Santa Cruz frame mostly '95 vintage. Kind of classy that way, and that stuff still works great. I've currently got the older running gear on a '94 (?) North Star Estrella, if anyone remembers those, but it'd be great on the Bontrager.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Speaking of Bontys... I finally got around to taking a picture of mine. I have two Race Lites, both from '97 (Santa Cruz built, but post-Trek purchase). This one does not see an trail use, and has mostly all '97 8-speed parts. My other Bonty has newer components and still gets ridden on trails regularly, but I can't be bothered to take a picture of it (maybe one day).
> 
> Click on the pic for the full size version.


i have that crank. deore xt 4 bolt. 
i remember everybody hating it for being flexy, flexy, 4 bolt, shimano, flexy, whine, whine...
is it really flexy? i have 3 other bikes w/ different cranks and can't say if it is bad or not. guess i am not refined.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

loonyOne said:


> Ti + Bontrager = The Holy Grail of mountain biking. If I were to ever have a custom built, it would center around the Bontrager geometry fer sure. All those years ago, the dude was ahead of his time.


if a 74º seat angle is the holly grail of mtb geometry then i will keep w/ the sinners.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

colker1 said:


> i have that crank. deore xt 4 bolt.
> i remember everybody hating it for being flexy, flexy, 4 bolt, shimano, flexy, whine, whine...
> is it really flexy? i have 3 other bikes w/ different cranks and can't say if it is bad or not. guess i am not refined.


I hated it because it came with a 42-tooth large ring that can not be replaced. I was always spinning it out. And if you bent the ring or wore it out, you needed to replace the entire crankset - not a nice design. I have one of the cranksets sitting in my parts bin, but doubt that I'll ever use it. It was the low point for XT in my opinion.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

*"All those years ago"?*



> Ti + Bontrager = The Holy Grail of mountain biking. If I were to ever have a custom built, it would center around the Bontrager geometry fer sure. All those years ago, the dude was ahead of his time.





colker1 said:


> if a 74º seat angle is the holly grail of mtb geometry then i will keep w/ the sinners.


Im right there with ya, Colker.

So the Ti-Lite was a post Trek project? And the Ti-Lite is stiffer than the steel bikes? Thats good.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

its true. they are horrible, you wouldn't want one. dont buy em.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> its true. they are horrible, you wouldn't want one. dont buy em.


haha 

I think it really depends on your riding style. They dont feel super great for me. Mainly for the reasons Rumpfy mentions above like the very forward weight bias. Theyre a little bit wiggly/Vitusie too.  Atleast the Race Lites I had were. They are cool bikes though no doubt.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> haha
> 
> I think it really depends on your riding style. They dont feel super great for me. Mainly for the reasons Rumpfy mentions above like the very forward weight bias. Theyre a little bit wiggly/Vitusie too.  Atleast the Race Lites I had were. They are cool bikes though no doubt.


im sorry, did you just liken bontys to vitus's(sp?).

oh its on:madmax:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> im sorry, did you just liken bontys to vitus's(sp?).
> 
> oh its on:madmax:


sorry, is that a bad word?

How about Alanish? 

Hey I think Bontragers are great climbers. Probably one of the best.

...and what the heck, Ive only seen about 5 vintage Bontragers on this site. 99% of them are these mid-90s units with Judys attached. (Judy should almost be a bad word too.) 

Bontrager bashing mode is now off. Where's Doug Lexington!?


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*if not for that last sentence*



Fillet-brazed said:


> How about Alanish?


may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

How about over cooked macaroni?  

Not the frame for me(sold it a year or so ago) but that's just my opinion.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Where's Doug Lexington!?


i know the answer to that questionand so do you


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> i know the answer to that questionand so do you


Dougy hasnt been seen on the trails much lately. He's been quiet. We better check on him.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Dougy hasnt been seen on the trails much lately. He's been quiet. We better check on him.


yeah, i hear doug doesnt ride that much any more


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## 95bonty (Oct 6, 2004)

...before i bought my Race in 94, my local mountain bike shop told me not to buy one as they rode like an RSJ - an allusion to a steel reinforcing beam used in construction, stiff horrible totally punishing...wtf! 

could anything be further from the truth??


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

95bonty said:


> ...before i bought my Race in 94, my local mountain bike shop told me not to buy one as they rode like an RSJ - an allusion to a steel reinforcing beam used in construction, stiff horrible totally punishing...wtf!


Rumpfy says that they're too stiff. Fillet Brazed says that they're too whippy. Magazine reviews back in the day say that they were stiff...

I think that they're just right. 

I still ride a Bontrager quite a bit, and still think it's one of the best bikes that I've ever ridden. Too each his own.


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## 95bonty (Oct 6, 2004)

i'm with you, i finally finished rebuilding my 96 racelite last week and took it out for a 2 hr offroad ride at the weekend, coming straight off a 22lb 4" travel RacerX to a 60mm travel Zoke and a steel frame was an adjustment, but i still reckon it is one of the best riding frames period. 

my only complaint was with the stoopid heavy Zoke, not the bike itself.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

laffeaux said:


> Rumpfy says that they're too stiff. Fillet Brazed says that they're too whippy. Magazine reviews back in the day say that they were stiff...


I said they were too stiff?

I know I said I didn't like the way they tracked in the tight stuff or how they were at speed and going downhill, but I don't think they're too stiff or too whippy.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> I know I said I didn't like the way they tracked in the tight stuff or how they were at speed and going downhill,


i'd chalk that up to what old time radio men called a "short between the earphones"

you dirty rat bastid


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