# Help me with a commute car.



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Ok, I've convinced myself that I need a commute car. My commute is about 70 miles a day.

I love my VW Passat but I'm afraid I'm killing it. It's modded now and I'm afraid I'm quickly making it worthless on my boring commute. Also, I'm thinking of saving some money with a 30+ mpg car that runs on regular unleaded.

Good news is there seems to be some great affordable cars out there. I've started test driving these puppies but would like some opinions from anyone.

Not in any special order are the candidates. I like hatchbacks so it's gonna be a hatchback:

Scion XB - The box. I actually like the way this looks (wife hates it). It's really nice inside and drives awesome. It's got the power of a lawnmower. Price is about $15k. It does 32 mpg on the highway but that quickly goes bad if you drive over 70mph.

Can you fit two bikes inside this thing??









Mini Cooper - Cooler than cool! About $17k and 35mpg on the highway. Will a bike fit in the back??? This is so cool that it's hard to get one. There's a one year waiting list in the bay area. I think I found a way to get one though. Does it come in orange?









Toyota Yaris - This car is sweeet! This only available in Canada but will be in the US soon. Any Canadans have one? Again, will a bike fit inside?? Price is $12k and highway mileage is 41mpg.








Look, you can mod it too.

Those are the 3 real options. A couple notables are:
Honda Element because they finally painted the dammmm panels. $21k though and the mileage is around 26 mpg, I think. So it's not a go.









Check out this freaky new Civic Hatchback. It's only available in UK right now. I'm sure it's super efficient and all that.

















francois


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Mini Cooopers look sweet


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

I love that new Civic! but you need one of these:








https://www.nevco-ev.com/index2.html


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

shiggy said:


> I love that new Civic! but you need one of these:


Seems like francis would be pushing the limits of that thing, partcularly the top speed. I like the concept, though.


The *gizmo* Neighborhood Electric Vehicle (NEV) is a safe, affordable, environmentally effective mode of transportation. It is a *single passenger* vehicle designed for commuters traveling under 45 miles per trip, or 75% of all drive time. ​*gizmo* - *America's only street legal EV faster than 25mph and a top speed of 45 mph*


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## wooglin (Jan 6, 2004)

Mazda 3. Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix.


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

I drive a Matrix and you can put up to 3 bikes inside whitout the front wheel and seat tube using a fork mount to hold them.

I did it for a while but eventually installed a roof rack.

The Scion is considered one of the most fuel efficient cars out there and it's backed by Toyota, you can't go wrong.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Kill the Passat and enjoy the ride......*

I put about 55 miles per day on my 2000 Passat and will have the 100k service done in two weeks. "I" average 33 mpg city/highway on the 1.8 turbo with manual. You didn't say what engine you had.

In the long, short or in between, it will be cheaper to keep what you have and use it up than to get a second car and all that involves. Even cheap insurance is not cheap. Realistically, getting something a little more fuel effecient doesn't save that much money even at $3.00/gallon. That is why a hybrid makes no monetary sense at the moment.

I figure to replace the Passat in two years or so when I hit 150k. What next? Who knows, I'm still shopping but the soon to be released Acura RD-X (CR-V on steroids) is pretty appealing. Damned hard to beat a Honda product for reliability unless you go Toyota and until Toyota hires some real designers (Scion excepted) they don't make a product I want to be seen driving, including most Lexus.

You could also wait a year for the One Series BMW being brought over from Europe. Nice, somewhat affordable (25K) and has some style, although I've said it many times, style is so subjective it is a useless criteria.

Confused? Me too. I will have changed my mind many, many times before my next purchase.

Shopping is more fun than buying anyway.


Merry Christmas!

PS: Plan on replacing the timing belt for the tune of $750 around 75k miles if you have the turbo. Don't know about the six.


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## Fuelish (Dec 19, 2003)

I'd say go with a Toyota , or Honda, perhaps....Yeah, I dig the new Yaris', but we don't get them stateside yet (guess they're selling off the last of the ugly lil Echos... 
Corollas get good mpg - we have an '05 s with an automatic, and get 33+ mpg in everyday around town driving, and 38+ mpg on long cruise-controlled highway trips. Power is decent - would be more than adequate if you got a 5 speed manual. I love Toyotas (this being my third in 30 years...LOL...had a '75 Celica, traded on a '91 Tercel, traded on the '05 Corolla.....rock solid reliability, I say - more than I can say about a certain Ford and a certain GM model we've also owned


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## metaldork (Oct 13, 2004)

i 2nd the mazda 3. i got one back in june and was also considering matrix. but for the same price or less, the mazda blew it out of the water in terms of performance, styling, etc. with 5 speed manual, i'm getting around 25 mpg with my usual mix of (non rush hour) new york city and highway driving. should be able to get one with the 2.3 engine for around 18k.


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## brado1 (Oct 5, 2004)

*Mini!!!*

Been looking at the Cooper S.. got a buddy who has one... Wife wants one!


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## TommyCalifornia (Jun 6, 2005)

Now that you're into tunner cars, get a Toyota Yaris and customize it lke this one.










<img src=https://www.tuningshop.co.uk/bodykits/yaris2frontside.jpg width="600">
[/center]

<img src=https://img10.exs.cx/img10/8738/YARIS1.jpg width="600">

<img src=https://www.irancar.com/images/Gallery-larg-1024-768/toyota/toyota_yaris_turbo_2001_01_m.jpg width="600">

<img src=https://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4938/toyotayarisvt2qo.jpg width="600">


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## Squash (Jul 20, 2003)

*Okay, here's my take...*

If you can still find one I would HIGHLY recommend an 05 Honda Civic SI. Hatch back, 30 to 33 MPG on the highway at 70 to 75mph on regular unleaded fuel. Pretty Snappy, 0-60 in 6 seconds, I've only been able to get 6.8 out of it, but I've noticed that my shifting prowess has suffered a bit as I've gotten older. 2.0L DHC IVtech engine, 160hp, ralley mounted 5 speed manual. 16 inch alloy wheels, sport tuned suspension. And a freaking BLAST to drive. Rides a little rough, but hey you have a choice, handling or cushy ride. For my part I'll go with the handling. I haven't found a highway entrance ramp yet that I couldn't get up to speep on before merging into trafic. You can still find them at some dealers, they haven't been moving real fast lately. Thus the redesign of the Civic for 06. So you can get some KILLER deals on them. Anyway for somebody that doesn't like underpowered lookers and wants a little grunt to go with it, you could do allot worse than the SI. Just my 2 cents. Here are a couple of pics of mine when it was new. Great car for the person that wants a commuter with a little style and some snap to the thortle.

Good Dirt


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

francois said:


> Scion XB - The box. I actually like the way this looks (wife hates it). It's really nice inside and drives awesome. It's got the power of a lawnmower. Price is about $15k. It does 32 mpg on the highway but that quickly goes bad if you drive over 70mph.


That's true for pretty much any vehicle.

Drag goes up as the square of velocity, so the drag at 80mph is 4 times the drag at 40mph, and as soon as you start going faster, you're going to loose mpg like crazy.

There's a ford dealer on our corner. They have the "mpg" numbers in the windows with big numbers. There's no way most of the numbers are right. 31mpg in a pickup? Sure, if the tailgate is down, in 5th gear at 45mph.


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## Fuelish (Dec 19, 2003)

Those are sweet - I test drove one when we were car shopping this spring.....was a blast to drive (and it had the sweetest shifting manual that I've ever had the pleasure of rowing through the gears on...vewry slick !!) wife liked it, but wanted a car with a lil more room (i.e., trunk).....we didn't like the interior of the "regular" 4 door civics...pretty bland, for being nice compact cars....the new civics look sharp - haven't seen the interior yet (hopefully improved  )


Squash said:


> If you can still find one I would HIGHLY recommend an 05 Honda Civic SI. Hatch back, 30 to 33 MPG on the highway at 70 to 75mph on regular unleaded fuel. Pretty Snappy, 0-60 in 6 seconds, I've only been able to get 6.8 out of it, but I've noticed that my shifting prowess has suffered a bit as I've gotten older. 2.0L DHC IVtech engine, 160hp, ralley mounted 5 speed manual. 16 inch alloy wheels, sport tuned suspension. And a freaking BLAST to drive. Rides a little rough, but hey you have a choice, handling or cushy ride. For my part I'll go with the handling. I haven't found a highway entrance ramp yet that I couldn't get up to speep on before merging into trafic. You can still find them at some dealers, they haven't been moving real fast lately. Thus the redesign of the Civic for 06. So you can get some KILLER deals on them. Anyway for somebody that doesn't like underpowered lookers and wants a little grunt to go with it, you could do allot worse than the SI. Just my 2 cents. Here are a couple of pics of mine when it was new. Great car for the person that wants a commuter with a little style and some snap to the thortle.
> 
> Good Dirt


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## erik99 (Feb 16, 2004)

I use my Mini Cooper S for fun/commuting and my Subaru for dirt activities. I'd say you wouldn't want to do both in the Mini. Not enough room for gear or the kiddies either. The regular Cooper is not very fast. You;d be dissapointed after driving yr modded Passat.

Sweet ride though! Pimp my whip:


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## SpinWheelz (May 3, 2004)

Cars are meant to be driven, mate, and that Passat is no exception. You plunked all the hard work and effort into it, what better way to enjoy it than on your 70 mile commute? If you're *killing* it, then it really can't be too good of a car, can it? I have a similar unmodded Passat and if I had to commute 70 miles a day, and if I could drive to work each day (I take mass transit), I'd definitely want to do it in that car.

Personally, I never understood the fear some people have of really using the stuff that they paid their good hard-earned money for. It's the same thing as building up a sweet burled-out Pugsley with all the bells and whistles and then taking it on beer runs only.

C'mon, drive the wheels of that Passat.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Amen*

Two cars are never cheaper than one anyway.....


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*My votes for an allrounder..*

a truck/car/wagon i can haul; stuff, bikes camping gear and something thats comfortable to sleep in. Ive been eyeing the element but i just cant justify dumping the 4runner because its serves my needs so well and only has 83K on it....

Didnt you have a MB SUV you used tyo haul bikes in and slept in at races?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Does a bike fit in the back? And does it come in orange??

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

wooglin said:


> Mazda 3. Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix.


Mazda 3 Hatchback is on the list. I can't believe how expensive that thing is though. Something like $20k and hard to find.

fc


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## jaybird (Feb 19, 2004)

The wife and I are buying a 2006 Civic LX - 17,400 (w/o taxes and fees). It gets 30/40 mph and has some nice features plus a 140hp 5speed AT.

I prefered the Mazda3S (hatchback) but the wife didn't like it. Runs about 18K.


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## Dwayne (Jun 3, 2005)

My two thoughts:

1. I agree with SpinWheelz, the Passat was meant to be driven, you've customized it the way you like it, so are you really worried about selling it in the near future?

2. You're complaining about making your Passat worthless because of racking up the miles on it, and in the same breath you're talking about plunking down ANOTHER $15K-20K just for a car to commute in, so you can make that one worthless instead. Now, I'm sometimes not the cookie with the most chocolate chips, but this makes absolutely no sense at all. Go out and buy a used Civic for less than 5K if you really have to, and drive the wheels off that. Seriously... buying a 15K-20K commuter is like saving one leg by chopping the other one off.


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## jl (Feb 23, 2004)

Francois,

How much CASH do you have for a new car? Wouldn't you rather buy a bike? ... Drive the passat--it's only 17500 miles/year, you can get a new car in 10 years.


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## SoCalAl (Aug 29, 2004)

*Scion xB all the way*

I love mine, I've had it for two years now. They're cheaper than any others you have there and will comfortably fit two bikes. I will say however, they are not fast. They're quick enough around town for me and it's fun on some of the twisty Hollywood Hills roads I take home sometimes. Here's a pic of mine with bike-


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

Francis, you forgot the best option around:
Volksagen Jetta TDI

Madre and I headed to Oregon 2 summers ago in ours. With 2 bikes on the roof racks, over 1800 miles we averaged 43MPG!!!!! (our best was 48mpg)

The little diesel that could. 

Like everyone said, it's always cheaper to drive what you got...but you obviously got the itch. 

40mpg around town and 50mpg + on the highway (with no racks)

It can't be beat.


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

Jayem said:


> 31mpg in a pickup? Sure, if the tailgate is down, in 5th gear at 45mph.


Mileage is actually better with the tailgate up. Saw it on Mythbusters a couple weeks ago. When the tailgate is up it creates an air bubble in the bed that actually smoothes out drag. When you drop the tailgate, that bubble collapses and there's more total drag on the truck.


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## Duncan! (Jan 15, 2004)

francois said:


> Ok, I've convinced myself that I need a commute car. My commute is about 70 miles a day.


I swore a long time ago that I would never drive to work. So far it seems to have worked (I'm 38). I've always made being walking or biking to work a major priority in Life's decisions. D.


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## Mtbmini (Jan 14, 2004)

You can get a bike in the back of the Mini with both wheels off. It's tight and you will probably have to slide the passenger seat forward to make some extra room. I would not suggest a Mini to be your primary bike car unless you have a rack.

Forget the MC if you like to go fast. They handle the same as a MCS, but if you are use to the power of a chipped 1.8T, you will be disappointed. If you get a Mini, get the S! With some good tires, not much out there will touch it on a twisty road.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

*If you like VW, you could always go*

with a used Golf. You should be able to find one for around $15k. I used to have a 95, and I could stuff my bike (front wheel off) in the back. I also have to admit that it was by far the worst car I've ever owned. That thing was falling apart faster than I could afford the repairs.

I replaced it with a Mazda 6 hatchback. 4 cyl, 5 spd, I manage 25mpg (leadfoot) and I can stick my small Motolite without taking the wheels off in the back when folding the seats. Got it used (13 months old, 10k miles) for $15.5k.


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## CraigH (Dec 22, 2003)

Smart Car?

They seem to be _*the*_ commuter car here in Vancouver now. Lots of them on the road.










And yes, it apparently comes in orange.

Are they selling them in the US yet?


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## forkboy (Apr 20, 2004)

francois said:


> Ok, I've convinced myself that I need a commute car. My commute is about 70 miles a day.
> 
> I love my VW Passat but I'm afraid I'm killing it. It's modded now and I'm afraid I'm quickly making it worthless on my boring commute. Also, I'm thinking of saving some money with a 30+ mpg car that runs on regular unleaded.


Owning a car that you can't drive seems oxymoronic.

I'll let you put the emphasis on whatever part of that you want to 

You purchase a car with the intent of driving it. If you own a car that you are afraid to drive, it's already worthless. Unless you're a collector.

So, are you going to keep paying insurance and registration on it too, or just sit around watching your "investment" depreciate in the driveway until someone steals it...


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## kristian (Jan 20, 2004)

*Why are you saving the Passat?*

Do you have intentions on keeping it for a long time? Sentimental value? Planning on more mods that would negatively impact commuting? Do you feel that you are hurting the environment driving the Passat daily?

If you aren't saving the Passat because of one of those reasons, it doesn't make any sense for you to get something else. You are probably looking at saving in the neighborhood of $1000 per year (18,200 mpy @22mpg vs 32mpg w/$0.20 per gallon savings for regular unleaded) with a commuter car at the cost of $15,000+. That means your break even point is about 10 years (assuming your Passat is worth $5k in 10 years).

If your Passat were a Porsche that you were driving daily then that would make sense to get something else. However, the Passat isn't going to be worth THAT much more if you don't drive it--especially if it is modded. I would suggest saving your money (figure out your payments/insurance on the Scion, subtract the extra grand you are spending on gas with the Passat) and spend it on bikes/your kids/your wife/your next car. In the meantime, you are _saving_ money and driving a car that is more fun. That sounds like a win/win situation to me.

*Edit:* Or, trade the Passat in now and buy something that is a happy medium between the fun Passat and the frugal commuter like a Mazda3 , GTi or Impreza wagon. You would still be saving money vs. owning two cars and your commute would still be fairly fun. Although, this option is still more out of pocket than just keeping the Passat...


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Montreal too.*

Except for one permanently on display at a building entrance on Madison Avenue, I have not seen any in NYC but do see them when I visit Montreal. I'd be afraid to drive something like that on my normal highway commute for fear of being sat on by the SUV's and Pickup's that seem to over-populate the roads.


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## CraigH (Dec 22, 2003)

There is a Smart Car USA site:

http://www.usa.smart.com/brand/smartUSA.html

Edit: Looks like it isn't for sale in the US yet. (info from site above).


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## smw (Jun 22, 2005)

I think yer bike gets better mileage, ride.
But out of the choices the Mini Cooper
sure seems like alot of fun. Personally, id drive 
the Passat, when it dies you needed a new 
car anyway. lol  

Sean


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*I remember seing a call like that...*



shiggy said:


> I love that new Civic! but you need one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was called the "ostrage" or something of that sort. It was insanely economical. I actually considered it. It only sat two which was more than fine by me.


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## CraigH (Dec 22, 2003)

Just had a thought, what about asking the same question >here< ?


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*That's crazy talk!!!*



CraigH said:


> Just had a thought, what about asking the same question >here< ?


Stop with that sort of logical thinking!


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*My dream commuter*

1968 FastBack Mustang. To hell with gas milage, I would be smiling to much to even care  
<img src=https://secure.finishlinestudios.com/users/www_classiccarsltd_com/files/auto/vehicle/179/RightSideCCL.JPG>


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## mcd (Jan 12, 2004)

erik99 said:


> I use my Mini Cooper S for fun/commuting and my Subaru for dirt activities. I'd say you wouldn't want to do both in the Mini. Not enough room for gear or the kiddies either. The regular Cooper is not very fast. You;d be dissapointed after driving yr modded Passat.


My wife has a mini as her commuter car, never less than 30mpg, and on twisty backroads nothing can touch it, but 0-60 in a straight line sucks big eggs...go buy yourself a couple of jeff jones bikes and drive the passat everyday...


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Rev Bubba said:


> I put about 55 miles per day on my 2000 Passat and will have the 100k service done in two weeks. "I" average 33 mpg city/highway on the 1.8 turbo with manual. You didn't say what engine you had.


That's very good Bubba. My 1.8t Passat is 2002 with 60k miles. I follow your line of thinking but I diverged when I modified the thing. If it was bone stock, I'd drive it into the ground. But with suspension, engine and body work, I'd really like to preserve the life of this car.

I just the quote for timing belt/water pump work... $1k. New tires, $1k. Everything is a little expensive it seems, partly because of my upgraded parts.

I want something with little tires, uses cheap gas and doesn't depreciate as much.

Oh yes, mileage on the 1.8t is awesome if I drive like miss daisy (33 mpg). I'm not behaving very well though and am just getting 25 mpg. Super Unleaded required too.

Anyway, this is just part of my winter boredom. Move along.

francois


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## jl (Feb 23, 2004)

francois said:


> I want something with little tires, uses cheap gas and doesn't depreciate as much.
> 
> francois


 This reminds me of a Bontrager quote--pick two


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## habernac (Apr 12, 2005)

just got one of these:










about 35mpg highway, 165HP, lots of room.

But I don't think they sell 'em in the states.


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

SoCalAl said:


> I love mine, I've had it for two years now. They're cheaper than any others you have there and will comfortably fit two bikes. I will say however, they are not fast. They're quick enough around town for me and it's fun on some of the twisty Hollywood Hills roads I take home sometimes. Here's a pic of mine with bike-


That's exactly what I did on my matrix but with the bike facing forward. You could fit 2 with room for gear easily.

Now the bikes go on the roof, got tired of removing the seat tube and loweing the front fork to make the taller bike (VT) fit.


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## MTB1986 (Aug 13, 2005)

Now I know it's not a new car but I Iove my '97 Altima GXE. Im a tuner too and this car is pretty fast for a four door car with cold air intake and cat-back exhaust. I had a '93 Altima GLE too but it died last winter becuse the previous owner didnt take care of it. The engines are pretty much bullet proof too, it's a KA24DE 2.4L DOHC 4-cyl, puting out 150hp stock. There pretty cheap too you can pick one up with a fair amt. of miles and in good condition for $1500-$4000 or so depending on the year.
Here's mine:


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

kristian said:


> Do you have intentions on keeping it for a long time? Sentimental value? Planning on more mods that would negatively impact commuting? Do you feel that you are hurting the environment driving the Passat daily?


Good questions. What pushed me over the edge is I need timing belt and waterpump maintenance in my car $1k!! Also new tires for $1k.

What's interesting about the Minis and the Scions is they seem to not deprceciate here in Norcal! Trust me on this. I've been scanning the used market. A mini with 10k miles sells more than brand new MSRP!

Anyway, I've got the itch and that's part of it. Upgraditis they call it. Or in this case, downgraditis.

francois


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Padre said:


> Francis, you forgot the best option around:
> Volksagen Jetta TDI
> 
> Madre and I headed to Oregon 2 summers ago in ours. With 2 bikes on the roof racks, over 1800 miles we averaged 43MPG!!!!! (our best was 48mpg)
> ...


TDI... I think I'm over my little Diesel itch. Since new diesel cars are outlawed in California, they're hard to get and folks from out of state are price gouging with their slightly used VW diesels.

The kicker though is the price of diesel here. What is up with that? That is like super duper unleaded.

Hopefully things will change. I see a Toureg V-10 TDI pulling an airstream sometime in this lifetime.

You're right about the itch. I'm just bored.

francois


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## jh_on_the_cape (Jan 12, 2004)

keep driving the AssPat.
take care of it and it will last a long time.

having multiple cars never makes financial sense (almost), but particularly in your case.

figure in that you will deal with the headaches/hassles of owning another car (maintenance, etc.).

commuter bike makes sense. commuter car does not.


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## Johnny Hair Boy (Jul 11, 2004)

*Suzuki Aerio*

I looked at the Aerio and the Matrix and decide the Aerio was a much better car 155 horse and all wheel drive for alot less then the Matrix. I can easily get 2 bikes in the back and 3 if I put some thought into it.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Trick it out, drive it to death in this family*

I have to admit they belong to my son though. His current commuter car is a 2005 Subi WRX STi. Not exactly what you would use for everday driving but he does. Though the car comes with just about everything, he has managed to add some mods that boost the HP from 300 to closer to 330.

Before that, his commuter car was a VW GTI VR6 with a super charger, body kit, etc. That was putting out almost 300 hp at the wheels (dyno tested).

Thought my current Passat is stock, I've mod'ed cars myself but still used them for everyday driving. Not being into racing, none of my mods were street illegal.

So, we never let a little thing like horse power and mods keep us from driving the car. I'm still of the opinion that owning and driving one car into the ground is the best method. Wish I could be a practical with bikes.


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## kristian (Jan 20, 2004)

francois said:


> Good questions. What pushed me over the edge is I need timing belt and waterpump maintenance in my car $1k!! Also new tires for $1k.
> francois


Unless you trade in the Passat, you're still going to have to fork over $2k for those parts--just playing devil's advocate.



francois said:


> Anyway, I've got the itch and that's part of it. Upgraditis they call it. Or in this case, downgraditis.
> francois


That's an itch I can't really understand (the downgraditis part). I had the upgraditis itch for several years before getting my OBXT, and I don't have anything remotely resembling an itch to go back to something underpowered (and if I did, all it takes is a quick drive in my wife's Protoge). Now my problem is coping with moditis...

K (itchin' for an Accessport and some sway bars...)


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Be practical*

Go for the new Bugatti (it is owned by VW after all).
0 to 100 kph in 2.5 seconds. ) (0-62 mph for the metrically challenged)
Top speed over 252 mph
Limited edition (about 50 a year)
Nice round number for a price - $1,000,000


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## SpinWheelz (May 3, 2004)

Diesel is the new hydrogen. Audi's new R10 race car for 2006 runs on diesel.


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## dpdsurf (Jan 19, 2004)

Jayem said:


> That's true for pretty much any vehicle.
> 
> Sure, if the tailgate is down, in 5th gear at 45mph.


Actually it was proven on Mybusters that leaving your tailgate down reduces your MPG. There is a vortex created by the tailgate when it's up allowing air to move over the vortex and right past the tailgate. As opposed to the air creating downforce on the tailgate when it's down. I was happy when I saw this on Mythbusters because I had heard a long time ago that this was the case.


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## Duncan! (Jan 15, 2004)

jh_on_the_cape said:


> commuter bike makes sense. commuter car does not.


Plus you can load up on all the hookers and liquor you want with that extra cash jingling in your pockets. D.


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## Duncan! (Jan 15, 2004)

HaHa ... Just saw this. Why not go all the way, and cash in your massive MTBR.com stock options for a Bugatti Veyron:

16-cylinder, 1001 HP, 8.0 L engine. 7 speed transmission,t op speed is 253 miles per hour. 62 mph in 2.5 seconds, 124 mph in 7.3 seconds, and 188 miles per hour in 16.7 seconds.


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## carbnjunkie (Aug 21, 2003)

*haha, i have the same problem too...*

https://automobiles.honda.com/fit/index.aspx

mid 2006 the Honda fit (that is avaiable in europe asia, willl be here to fight the scions.)

We dont know what the car will like exactly yet, but there are pics from other countries.

It's 2300 pounds 110-120hp, and currently will fit a bike standing up with the wheels on!

also, the seats have a bunch of funky modes.

42 mpg is what a lot of people are getting in europe, but once again the engine specs for the US ones arent out yet.

in japan, they range from 10-15k right now, so expect the same here.

(some pics taken from the meguiars site)



















these below are fromt the japanese site.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

carbnjunkie said:


> http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/index.aspx


Cooool info!! They FIT a full bike in that micro car. Nice!

francois


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## carbnjunkie (Aug 21, 2003)

*yup...*

I <3 it too!

yay for orange!

I dunno about real colors yet.


----------



## beagledadi (Jul 18, 2004)

*more useless information*

This is my 2006 Toyota Matrix XR. I've only driven SUV's in the past and was careful with my selection when downsizing. I was going to get the Corolla, but came out of the store one day and saw the Matix sitting next to the Corrola and said humm. This little car is a blast. It's very quick on the roads, comfortable to drive, and averages 30mpg. The package I got has airbags in every top, side, and any nook-and-cranny possible. The rear and passenger seats fold down flat like a truck bed with a hard plastic backing, and the hatchback style opening is huge. So, this was my two cents.


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## Hollywood (Dec 30, 2003)

*kick some tars*

why don't you drive down with a bike next month and check out the LA auto show with us, then go roost some SloCal dirt?

I dig the Element too but the mpg figures didn't impress. I'd love to see a hybrid version. You can pick up a year old xB for cheap from some 17 year old who couldn't make the payments.  Also, hitch mounts are available for xB's and Mini's(not sure about S) if you have a SportWorks-type rack. Keeps the roof lines clean.

HW


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## Photo-John (Aug 1, 2001)

*Avoid The Toaster*

Don't buy the toaster - not the Scion one, anyway. I can't stand those things. The Honda toaster looks good, but you're right about mileage. Doesn't make sense as a commuter.


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

Hollywood said:


> why don't you drive down with a bike next month and check out the LA auto show with us, then go roost some SloCal dirt?
> 
> I dig the Element too but the mpg figures didn't impress. I'd love to see a hybrid version. You can pick up a year old xB for cheap from some 17 year old who couldn't make the payments.  Also, hitch mounts are available for xB's and Mini's(not sure about S) if you have a SportWorks-type rack. Keeps the roof lines clean.
> 
> HW


Ours gets 21mpg in stop and go and 24mpg on the open road.

that's alot better than my Titan.


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## PCC (Sep 5, 2005)

Padre said:


> Francis, you forgot the best option around:
> Volksagen Jetta TDI
> 
> Madre and I headed to Oregon 2 summers ago in ours. With 2 bikes on the roof racks, over 1800 miles we averaged 43MPG!!!!! (our best was 48mpg)
> ...


I have to agree. I drive a '98 Jetta TDI that has an aftermarket chip and larger nozzles every day, about 70 miles round trip. On this last tank I had two occasions where I did full-throttle blasts getting onto the freeway behind my co-worker in a modified '87 325is (I kept up with him). He had one passenger and I had three. I just filled the tank: 42 MPG. I've seen a bit over 50 MPG on really long drives and the worst tank was 33. That 33 MPG tank was right after I got the chip and I drove the entire tank pedal to the metal.

BTW, a mild increase in nozzle size will give you both an increase in power and an increase in MPG as long as you drive it for economy.

As for why diesel is so expensive right now, diesel prices always go up in the winter because they use diesel as heating oil in the Northeast to heat people's homes. Rule of supply and demand here. By late spring of '06 it should be about as expensive or cheaper than regular unleaded again.

Diesels should be back in California in '07. There are ways to get diesels in California right now but you need to know someone out of state.


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## xtrememaniak (Nov 28, 2005)

I drive a GMC Sierra that carries several bikes but not to good on gas. My wife has a Toyota Echo. We took this car to Portland for the LiveSTRONG Ride this past September. It gets between 30 and 35 miles per gallon, and my bike fit without any problem. I folded the back seats down, removed the front tire and slid it in. Also fit our luggage for the three day trip. Granted it is not a hatchback but this little thing is pretty damn good.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*I can do the same with my Passat*

Front wheels off, back seats folded down and two, not one, bikes easily fit and I too get close to or over 35 mpg highway with a much bigger car. Hell, my midsize car is averaging 33 mph city/highway (yeah, I drive easily to conserve and keep the turbo from kicking in too much). Point is, a well designed mid-size car can be almost as economical as something as small as an Echo though it obviously costs more to buy and maintain. The mid-sizeed 4-cylinder Accords get even better mileage as does the Camry.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Nonono, you don't want ANY of what these guys are offering you Francis! You WANT this:










Yeah, top speed is about 50, but the milage is killer! Plust there's room for a few bikes out back. I bet the kids would love riding back there too!

Seriously though, I LOVE this thing. Cool little contraption. Stick a bigger motorcycle engine in that puppy and you'll be quite happy.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

~martini~ said:


> Nonono, you don't want ANY of what these guys are offering you Francis!


That IS sweet!! Nice fender flares on the mini tires. Is that thing small or is that license plate just big? What is it btw?

francois


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Rev Bubba said:


> Front wheels off, back seats folded down and two, not one, bikes easily fit and I too get close to or over 35 mpg highway with a much bigger car. Hell, my midsize car is averaging 33 mph city/highway (yeah, I drive easily to conserve and keep the turbo from kicking in too much). Point is, a well designed mid-size car can be almost as economical as something as small as an Echo though it obviously costs more to buy and maintain. The mid-sizeed 4-cylinder Accords get even better mileage as does the Camry.


33 mpg?? Bubba, stop drafting the trucks and don't be putting that car into neutral on the downhills!

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Hollywood said:


> why don't you drive down with a bike next month and check out the LA auto show with us, then go roost some SloCal dirt?
> 
> I dig the Element too but the mpg figures didn't impress. I'd love to see a hybrid version. You can pick up a year old xB for cheap from some 17 year old who couldn't make the payments.  Also, hitch mounts are available for xB's and Mini's(not sure about S) if you have a SportWorks-type rack. Keeps the roof lines clean.
> 
> HW


Yeah, I'm gunna kick the tar out of you in January. A January slocal road trip sounds goood!!

Yeah, the Xb is still in the running. Oh, excuse me... xB. Cause I want to roll it gangsta style!










Here's a nice off-road toyota btw. It's coming next summer. I can't consider it but it's waaay cool and only around $20k. It's the FJ7 Cruiser
























fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Dwayne said:


> My two thoughts:
> 
> 1. I agree with SpinWheelz, the Passat was meant to be driven, you've customized it the way you like it, so are you really worried about selling it in the near future?
> 
> 2. You're complaining about making your Passat worthless because of racking up the miles on it, and in the same breath you're talking about plunking down ANOTHER $15K-20K just for a car to commute in, so you can make that one worthless instead. Now, I'm sometimes not the cookie with the most chocolate chips, but this makes absolutely no sense at all. Go out and buy a used Civic for less than 5K if you really have to, and drive the wheels off that. Seriously... buying a 15K-20K commuter is like saving one leg by chopping the other one off.


Love the Passat but it looks like I'm gonna be putting 30k miles on it in the next year. These miles are boring 70mph, straight line drives. If I had a choice, I would much rather put 30k miles in the next three years and have those be quality miles. Every time I throw it into a twisty mountain corner and gun it on the exit, I smile.

As far as getting a Mini Cooper as a commuter... yes, I think I crossed the boundaries of commuter car into 'want' car. I think my wife is catching on too. Shhh.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Jayem said:


> That's true for pretty much any vehicle.
> 
> Drag goes up as the square of velocity, so the drag at 80mph is 4 times the drag at 40mph, and as soon as you start going faster, you're going to loose mpg like crazy.


Xb is particularly bad. It's box profile and square windshield creates a lot of drag.

Another thing is this car has the Toyota Echo engine with 108hp. To compensate for the lack of power, they undergeared it. So around town, it has a lot of pep. But on the freeway at 80mph, the engine is revving at 4000 rpm.

francois


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

CraigH said:


> Just had a thought, what about asking the same question >here< ?


done deal!! Let's see if those carreview folks have any answers.

Holy crap. That forum doesn't allow html. Had to change that...

francois


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## mattsteve (Dec 28, 2004)

Jetta TDI wagon or Golf TDI.

50 mpg is doable. 40 mpg if you drive the absolute snot out of it. (90 on the freeways and a lot of full tilt boogie driving)


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## mattsteve (Dec 28, 2004)

BTW, the Passat also comes in diesel flavor. 250 lb ft, so it will move nicely especially on the highway. 

Rated for 38 mpg highway, and you can get more by driving it easy. tdiclub.com

gas cars are good I guess, but once youve gone to one of these new TD's, you can never go back.


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## el_chupo_ (Nov 15, 2005)

My GF has the black Mini Cooper S, with a white top. Honestly one of the funnest cars I have driven. (that is saying something, I have driven some nice cars, but take it with the standard grain of salt) It handles great, no torque steer, milage arround 31. 

I am gonna add to teh VW group, with a warning. First, you can get the two door golf with the tdi and 5 speed for 18 grand. Second, I know a good guy that rebuilds diesel pumps for a living. He cautions against the pump used in the jetta/golf/passat. Says it has known problems, cant be rebuilt, isnt covered under warranty due to a technicality, and is about 3k to replace. other than that, its a great car. its not known for failing, but it can. Good luck

Matt


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## vans380 (Sep 11, 2005)

2005 Subaru Legacy GT. Fast, good looking, roomy, and decent MPG. All these tiny cars being suggested get marginally better mileage at the sacrifice of room and crash safety.


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## Fast Eddy (Dec 30, 2003)

*You've already got your commuter*

Get on that fancy plastic roadie and ride it to the closest caltrain station.


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## CraigH (Dec 22, 2003)

"Reflesh mode"?

Can anyone translate that?


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*No drafting*

26 miles to work almost all down hill getting more like 40 mpg with maybe 31 mpg on the way home for the decent average. 46 mile each way on Rt 80 to ski on weekends. No trouble getting mid-thirties there.

Neutral downhill. Yeah, that works.

No turbos kicking in to wreck things though I was hitting the gas this week and my overall average for 270 miles is 31.4 mpg.

Guess I'm just lucky. Some cars seem to be built better than similar ones of the same make and model. My wifes Passat is no where near as realiable as mine. Go figure.


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## carbnjunkie (Aug 21, 2003)

*haha*

craigh- Im not a Engrisch guru, but I think it means "chill" or relax mode. hahaah


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

70 mile commute?  How about tele commuting?


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## PCC (Sep 5, 2005)

mattsteve said:


> BTW, the Passat also comes in diesel flavor. 250 lb ft, so it will move nicely especially on the highway.
> 
> Rated for 38 mpg highway, and you can get more by driving it easy. tdiclub.com
> 
> gas cars are good I guess, but once youve gone to one of these new TD's, you can never go back.


250 lb ft? I thought it was more than that.

It's difficult to drive gasoline cars now because there's so much torque off idle that I don't need to give it any throttle as I let out the clutch. This makes it difficult to jump into a gasser and try to drive.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Its a Subaru, and yes, it is as small as it looks. Found it on ebay. I think it was in Davis or something near there. I think. Total chick magnet too.


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## thesacrifice (Mar 12, 2004)

Squash said:


> If you can still find one I would HIGHLY recommend an 05 Honda Civic SI. Hatch back, 0-60 in 6 seconds


HAHAHAHA out of a 160hp civic? I think not!

"The Si goes from 0-60 mph in a tick under 8 seconds"
http://www.automotive.com/2005/43/honda/civic/reviews/driving-impressions/

The 06 SI is getting RAVE reviews, look into that.


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## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

*Civic Si!*

If you're thinking of a Mini Cooper, I would also consider the new Civic Si. With a limited slip differential and 200hp, it should be faster than the Mini Cooper, handle just as well for all practical purposes, and have more cargo room (60/40 split folding rear seat).


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## Slanter (Dec 20, 2005)

Hey, everyone. Found this forum from the crossposted version on CarReview.



Rev Bubba said:


> Two cars are never cheaper than one anyway.....


Sometimes they are, if one of them is a "toy" that wouldn't exactly be practical for street use. For example, if you spend most of your driving on city streets in a Civic, buying a $2,500 used Jeep for when you need to go off roading can sometimes be cheaper than trying to buy a new SUV that can do both hardcore off roading and a daily commute. It's like trying to build a bike that's perfect for both hardcore trail riding and long distance street riding - if you try to do too many things, trying to find something that can do it all just may be more expensive.

(Of course, cars as a hobby can be pretty expensive. But so can buying new...)


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## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

*Shameless SPAM*

You can buy ...my car! It's modded i/h/e, suspension/swaybars, wheels, and even a complete HID projector retrofit from an Audi A6!! Mods have been tasteful --only what actually improved performance found its way on the car. 120k miles, but still goin' strong! I drive another car now, and I live in the bay area too (awesome place to live).


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)




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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

*Another vote for the Passat*

New cars sure are nice, but the feeling of NOT writing out a loan payment every month is a lot better.

I'm commuting 120 miles/day currently, plus some (around 300 miles/week) driving for the job. I've got a 99 legacy GT, 5spd with the 2.5l motor. Sporty enough, handles well, and is (so far) holding up to the 1000 miles/week that I've been averaging since March of 05. It's up to 150K, and going strong.

The satisfaction of a car greatly increases once it's paid off, IMHO. Car payment suck, and cars are usually never a good investment, you'll always end up losing money on them. Just think, for what you need to put in for tires and maintenance, that's only about 6 or 7 months of car payments, not years.

Plum


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## Cloud9 (Dec 28, 2005)

francois said:


> Ok, I've convinced myself that I need a commute car....


 I've suddenly found myself in the same position. Totalled my Tacoma, and I'm looking at global killers again on the bay. These just jump out as being at least as mechanically demanding as a high end bike, but quite possibly just as much fun:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966...oryZ6218QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CITR...oryZ6183QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The mini cooper is probably the most fun & least frustration per dollar though. Test drove one today. Woah is that ever a zippy little car...


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

FC, you are spending way too much on tires mi amigo. Email me, let's talk. $700 tops for some great new shoes for that bad boy.

You sure you need a new timing belt? I thought CA cars are 90k or 100k service intervals for those, due to CARB requirements. Take a look.

Yep, keep the car. I constantly battle UGI, and have this same issue right now, but i'm thinking about consolidating 2 cars -> 1. With keeping the 4Runner, i considered the xA and the TDi. The diesel pricing is all whacked out for the last yr. Can't figure that one.


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## minkhiller (Feb 12, 2004)

Ooops, sorry. I was going to show my commuter rig then I realized that bikes don't belong in passion. Oh what the hell, here it is, ok no uploads at this time. What a shame.


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

patineto said:


>


 I want to build a rack like that for my scooter. Got any pics of it?


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## mattsteve (Dec 28, 2004)

TDI for small groups (can take two bikes on the rear hitch) but for longer trips with more people there is another way......

6500 lb truck running on biodiesel knocking down 21 mpg at 72 mph. Betcha its faster than any of these little ricers too.......


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## ibanezrg520kid (Oct 27, 2005)

Jayem said:


> That's true for pretty much any vehicle.
> 
> Drag goes up as the square of velocity, so the drag at 80mph is 4 times the drag at 40mph, and as soon as you start going faster, you're going to loose mpg like crazy.
> 
> ...


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

rensho said:


> FC, you are spending way too much on tires mi amigo. Email me, let's talk. $700 tops for some great new shoes for that bad boy.
> 
> You sure you need a new timing belt? I thought CA cars are 90k or 100k service intervals for those, due to CARB requirements. Take a look.
> 
> Yep, keep the car. I constantly battle UGI, and have this same issue right now, but i'm thinking about consolidating 2 cars -> 1. With keeping the 4Runner, i considered the xA and the TDi. The diesel pricing is all whacked out for the last yr. Can't figure that one.


Tires for the Passat... yes, what do you recommend? How's the Pirelli P-Zero Rossos?

For the timing belt, I think you're right. I can wait a little bit. The VW timing belt for the 1.8t seems like one big cluster-F. They recommend 105k replacement. But a lot of people are breaking their belts at 60k.

With some research though I'm finding out that most of the problems are pre 2001. And in my case, my engine is covered under warranty until 100k. So if that belt breaks, I'm not out $4k.

francois


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Ok, I got my car. My wife roadblocked me on the Scion Xb ganster car. She also did not appreciate my the super Mazda3 Hatchback that I found.

So I found this used Mini Cooper a few days ago and I bought it after an hour of deep thought. This thing is flawless and such a good deal too. Anyway, I'm obsessed about it so it ain't gonna be a commute car. The Passat will get the beatdown.

I have about 20 upgrades for the Mini. Most of them are cheap, just a lot of my labor. I need the distraction though cause I'm so fricking bored with all this rain and my poor health (bronchitis). So the UPS man will be my friend this week. 

Thanks for all the advice on the thread.

francois

p.s. If you're a craigslist junkie, I found a way to get your searches 'pushed' to you. Basically you get the 'RSS' of your search and put it on a My Yahoo page. So if someone posts an ad you're looking for, you'll be the first one to see it.


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

mattsteve said:


> TDI for small groups (can take two bikes on the rear hitch) but for longer trips with more people there is another way......
> 
> 6500 lb truck running on biodiesel knocking down 21 mpg at 72 mph. Betcha its faster than any of these little ricers too.......


  Yeah, but you'll need to drive 250,000 miles at 21mpg to make up the amount you spent on the duramax upgrade!


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

Hey FC, if i come over to check out the new little red wagon, you're not going to get me sick are you?

tyres? Goodyear, eagle F1 GSD3. Quiet, grip like heck, and awesome in the rain, semi long lasting. Soungs too good to be true hah?
I thought i'd never in a million years buy GY tyres. The miata guys sold me on them. Then the rest of the world caught on as well.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Eagle+F1+GS-D3
not sure what size you need... 205 or 225 50 17s? No tax on these boys shipped to you.
There is a $40 rebate on these, set of four.
I'm not aware of a single Pirelli tire that is worth a damn right now. All show, no go.

On the timing belt, i think Audi fixed the tensioner in 2001, so those and newer get the 100k service interval.


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## ibanezrg520kid (Oct 27, 2005)

cool new car, but i vote new wheels.........
any ways congrats!


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## Acadian (Jan 1, 2004)

francois said:


> Tires for the Passat... yes, what do you recommend? How's the Pirelli P-Zero Rossos?


 Toyo Proxy 4's are great. I just put a set on my Suby and love them.

www.autoinnovations.com for great prices and awesome service.

nice new car BTW!!


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Nice choice*

I've finally decided on the Subaru Outback (3.0 R) to replace the Passat next summer but my wife would really love a Mini when her Passat is replaced. Definitely a cool car. Lots of luck with it.


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## Soupboy (Jan 13, 2004)

You've made your decision but I thought I'd throw out the Jeep Liberty CRD (Common Rail Diesel). I was suprised by the mileage (upper 20s and claims into the 30s by owners) and you get a shyte load of twist (297 ft/lbs) and a real 4WD system ta boot. You can fit bikes in side too. For another $500 and you can up the power figures by 20%+ and improve MPG.

I'm not in the market now but... I think next year you can expect to see a larger inline 6cyl CRD in the Commander.

It's a shame that more turbodiesels aren't available in mid-sized sedans, wagons, and SUVs.


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## Cadillac (Jun 8, 2005)

Here's what I got:












I only have a 4 mile commute (and drive only when it rains). Still, and on a serious note, the car was cheap and gets 25 MPG on the road with all the torque a Chevy samll block can offer.


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## cmatcan (Nov 20, 2005)

francois, as a canuck i have to push for the Yaris. I am going to begin leasing a Yaris next month and have driven one around a few times. i would love to know more about how it'd work for possible bike storage, if anyone has one. From eyeing it with this in mind, you shoulod be able to fit a bike or two, providing you get a little creative. can't beat the price, eh?
EDIT: i just read the thread, for once, and realize you alright got the mini pooper. Heartbreak is not a strong enough word....I hope you two are happy together. Canada doesn't really consider you guys a neighbor anyways.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Acadian said:


> Toyo Proxy 4's are great. I just put a set on my Suby and love them.
> 
> www.autoinnovations.com for great prices and awesome service.
> 
> nice new car BTW!!


Haaaa. That's actually get my car done. Great place!!!

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Soupboy said:


> You've made your decision but I thought I'd throw out the Jeep Liberty CRD (Common Rail Diesel). I was suprised by the mileage (upper 20s and claims into the 30s by owners) and you get a shyte load of twist (297 ft/lbs) and a real 4WD system ta boot. You can fit bikes in side too. For another $500 and you can up the power figures by 20%+ and improve MPG.
> 
> I'm not in the market now but... I think next year you can expect to see a larger inline 6cyl CRD in the Commander.
> 
> It's a shame that more turbodiesels aren't available in mid-sized sedans, wagons, and SUVs.


Stop with the diesels already. It's not available in Cali and it's making me envious 

Someday though, I will have my diesel. Hopefully pulling an Airstream.










fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

ibanezrg520kid said:


> cool new car, but i vote new wheels.........
> any ways congrats!


Yessss! Funny thing is I can get nice Mini wheels for cheap as owners upgrde to other brands. It's the damn tires that are expensive! I'm on the lookout for a used complete set.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

rensho said:


> Hey FC, if i come over to check out the new little red wagon, you're not going to get me sick are you?
> 
> tyres? Goodyear, eagle F1 GSD3. Quiet, grip like heck, and awesome in the rain, semi long lasting. Soungs too good to be true hah?
> I thought i'd never in a million years buy GY tyres. The miata guys sold me on them. Then the rest of the world caught on as well.
> ...


Of course you can come by. Wait til I have to install my CAI or Catback and I can kick back while you do the work. I'll supply the fine beers. I can't afford those fancy wines that you drink.

fc


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

there is only 1 wheel fc, and it ain't cheap.

SSR comps. Superlight, way nice. Volks are also good. Both are kinda like Reynolds for the roadie.
Konig Heliums are a nice standby.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Diesel costs too much in the east.....*

I suppose you could justify it in the long run but at close to .70 gallon over regular, its hard to take.


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## jh_on_the_cape (Jan 12, 2004)

francois said:


> Tires for the Passat... yes, what do you recommend? How's the Pirelli P-Zero Rossos?
> 
> francois


blizzaks!


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

So when I wrote started this thead a while back, a lot of these small cars were not available. 

Honda Fit
Toyota Yaris
Nissan Versa

Anyone check em out yet or own em? Howzit?

fc


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Dredging up an old thread, but I'll be out car shopping tomorrow, trying to land a deal. The Yaris just doesn't look good to me...that center mounted display doesn't seem natural to me.

But, the Fit and Versa are looking good on paper so far. The Fit appears to have the edge in price (slightly), fuel economy, and interior versatility but the Versa so far appears to have the edge on features (that CVT looks nice and might draw me over the 6spd manual), comfort, and performance. Both have nice audio systems and safety, though the Versa appears to have better head restraints (active system) than the Fit, which did rather poorly in some IIHSA testing for rear impacts).

For bike transport, I intend to get a roof rack, but I'm trading a truck for one of these, so I'd like some degree of interior versatility.

I'm also looking for something comfortable enough to do longer road trips in. My wife and I currently live in Pittsburgh, and all our family is in Indianapolis or soon to be Chicago. We'll probably do most road trips in this vehicle for the fuel economy, but we have a Jeep Liberty for bad nasty weather or for more remote destinations.


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## CraigH (Dec 22, 2003)

My wife and I just went through the same selection process.

Went with a 06 Civic sedan with hitch rack. I have pics of the rack loaded and unloaded mounted on the car in thre Civic & Rack tread. I can give you the link if you want.

We are very happy with everything about the set up.


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## wddung (Apr 19, 2005)

CraigH said:


> My wife and I just went through the same selection process.
> 
> Went with a 06 Civic sedan with hitch rack. I have pics of the rack loaded and unloaded mounted on the car in thre Civic & Rack tread. I can give you the link if you want.
> 
> We are very happy with everything about the set up.


CraigH - I'm beginning the process of looking for a different car. I think I'd prefer a sedan or sport wagon to a coupe or 3-door hatch (5-door hatch is acceptable). What does your Civic + hitch rack look like? Do you notice the effect of a loaded rack on the handling/fuel economy/acceleration/deceleration?

A hitch rack is my first choice, transport bike inside vehicle is second choice. Roof racks are out of the question.


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## CraigH (Dec 22, 2003)

Pics of the rack on the car about middle of the page of this thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=284970

Haven't noticed any handling, acceleration, deceleration difference. I haven't driven with it long enough in one shot to be able to compare fuel economy.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

francois,
I like the mini cooper, that was my first choice also.

I test drove the car and loved it. I would have had to get racks because the back is to small. 

The Mini dealer never got back to me so I found a used Toyota Matrx SRX. It has all the goodies and the hIper motor w/ 6 spd manual. so far I get about 25 in town driving. my commute is 6 miles no highway. I keep it under 6,000 rpm because at 8,000 it sounds crazy. It is no BMW or Mini but it gets the job done.

I can get one bike inside with wheels on. but will convert to roof rack when I can figure what parts I will need to convert my Thule roof rack from BMW to Toyota Matrix.

now that I have driven the Matrix for a couple of weeks, I think the AWD '09 version would be worth a look see.


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## Black Earth (Jan 16, 2006)

:thumbsup: Francis,


Like I was telling you last week the 09 Toyota Matrix is the way to go. Give it a try, I did. Love It!!


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