# What happened to lawwill link?



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

I don't think i've seen a lawwill link bike in like 15 years. Why was it abandoned? It looks like a design that could provide any ride character the designer wished, with moderate loads on the bearings and fairly easy to construct- a great alternative. What's up?


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Suspension designs are like high-fashion clothes, they just go in and out of style. You can find MBA from 20+ years ago talking about how the latest coolest linkage design "is the final nail in the coffin of the hardtail" because of it's perfect efficiency/plushness/blah blah blah. Sometimes the article is about something humorously terrible like a URT, too.

Me, I like single pivots. They always work, and feel like they're working. They fail to suck in most situations, and they're simple. Half the stuff out there is a single pivot with a fancy name attached to it anyway.

-Walt


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## cheezwhip (Aug 6, 2004)

I thought Sully still had one (Rotec)


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

When Yeti started being independent again, they developed the 303. IIRC, Tomac even abandoned that design in favor of a single pivot. So maybe not all it's cracked up to be? OTOH, check out the new Specialized Demo. It's at least halfway between a Lawwil and an FSR.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Check out the rotation of the rear link the brake is attached to. That's one reason. Another is the bending strength required in the top swingarm is as high as a monopivot so it can't compete on weight. 

It's still a viable design. Just has some downsides.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

The Lawwill layout was always very heavy because the upper link and chainstays have to be so long. Yeti tried to make them lighter and ended up with the famous Yeti Lawwill DH9, alias the Spagyeti.

When the lighter (much lighter) single pivot bikes from Orange and Sunn/V-Process started dominating downhill racing it more or less fell out of use. Astrix kept using a version of it until some time in 2009.

The current Spesh Demo is close to being a Lawwill llink with it's extended upper link and shortened seat stays, but isn't.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

The rear clevis/linkage on the Pivot Mach6 is either a Lawwill Link, or Lawwill just helped them refine their design?

Factory Tour: Pivot Turns out Prototypes and Assembled Bikes in Tempe, AZ



> Just like any bike company, sometimes something pops up on a bike after it's already in production that leads to further development. That was case with the "Lawwill Link" which got its name after Joe Lawwill. A Master's World Champion and current MTB Marketing Specialist at Shimano, Lawwill knows his way around a bike and is also a big guy that as Cocalis puts it, "thunders through corners." After voicing his opinion that he felt the rear of the bike flexing under hard cornering, Pivot created a new link that was quite a bit stiffer. After a string of prototypes, the final forged link is at least 25% stiffer but does come with a small weight penalty. Lawwill links will be available as an aftermarket item for any Mach 6 carbon in the future.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Coming from someone who rode a Lawwill Yeti for years and loved the bike , as other have pointed out it has it's downsides and has been abandoned by the industry .
I've spoken with Mert about the patent and it's pretty much open source as far as he's concerned . 
Sully had a great new incantation of the design with his Rotec and as far as I know that was the last Lawwill bike to be produced . 

Single pivots are the go to now a days as their easy to design and have no patent issues to worry about , and in todays day and age that's more of a concern in the full sup market than the performance of the suspension platform is as that can always be tweaked with shock tuning later on down the road .


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Alright, i appreciate everyone's replies, and this is what i draw from it.

-Traditionally lawwill link bikes had the front pivots more 'opened up' than the pivots near the dropouts, leading to braking weirdness and a negative association when they were available. This isn't an inherent lawwill problem, but a problem with old models that's difficult to get away from and retain good stiffness.

-Since the 'rear triangle' is basically just the dropouts, you can't connect the two sides of the rear triangle. Either you have to seriously over-build the links/stays, or you have a flexy rear end.

-Ultimately, execution is more important than which linkage is used, so a well-executed single pivot or short-link bike can offer a better ride experience and is much easier to design and market.

Thanks everyone, and i'd be happy to hear how i have this not quite right.


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## GeorgeWHayduke (Jan 20, 2015)

I was curious about this too - thanks for the thread and the responses. I liked the vertical axle path it created, and remember a secondary linkage off the axle to isolate braking forces, but it's been a long time.


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