# The Cost Of Bikes



## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

Back in 2004 I bought a new FS bike and thought that I was spending a lot of money. The bike was a Cannondale Jekyll and the cost was around $1200. I thought to myself, wow that's a lot of money for two wheels, it's just a bicycle. For that price I can get a car...

Fast forward to 2015 and I set out to get a replacement for my Cannondale. Come to find out that prices have increased significantly:eekster:. However the bikes themselves have not advances as much as the pricing has. I ended up paying a little less than $4k for my new bike and I must say that the difference between the two (2004 vs. 2015) does not reflect the increase in cost. I can see that there is inflation baked in, but let's be realistic.

Fast forward to 2016 and I wanted to look into getting a hard tail. I figured it surely must be cheaper than a FS bike. Come to find out that a mid-level hard tail costs about what I paid for FS last year. Not to mention what a higher-end bike costs these days... The numbers are rather mid-blowing...

So I'm wondering where is this going? Will prices keep climbing because people keep paying? Does the majority feel as though the cost of a mid\high-level bike justify what you actually get? Will the norm be 5 figure bikes in a few years?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Should have just kept riding the old Jekyll


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Already at 5-figure prices. Cost is all about what you're willing to pay, and what you consider "mid-level". Plenty of good bikes at the $1k price, but they aren't great.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Charles Darwin once said: Dove hunting is worth whatever it costs. For most people, I think that's true for their passion. Everyone should have at least one passion.


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

watts888 said:


> Already at 5-figure prices. Cost is all about what you're willing to pay, and what you consider "mid-level". Plenty of good bikes at the $1k price, but they aren't great.


Where are the good bikes at $1k?


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Mid-level hardtail for ~$4k?


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

xler8 said:


> Where are the good bikes at $1k?


Talon 27.5 2 (2016) | Giant Bicycles | United States

All about what you consider mid level. It's good, but not great.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2016)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Charles Darwin once said: Dove hunting is worth whatever it costs. For most people, I think that's true for their passion. Everyone should have at least one passion.


if not several. Pricing continues to increase with most passions and the marketing gurus know this.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I'm surprised at how many people have no passions.


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

watts888 said:


> Talon 27.5 2 (2016) | Giant Bicycles | United States
> 
> All about what you consider mid level. It's good, but not great.


I would consider this as entry-level.


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I'm surprised at how many people have no passions.


I'm sure lots of people have many passions, but to be able to live out those passions is another story... Some passions are just out of reach for many.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

This is true!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

xler8 said:


> Where are the good bikes at $1k?


Used 26ers.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

xler8 said:


> I would consider this as entry-level.


And some people consider the wallyworld full suspension high end. Not I, but it's all about what you expect from your bike. I use a hardtail 29er with a recon silver and 10-speed because it's all I need. Is it entry level or mid level? I've ridden worse, so I don't consider it entry level, and it's a hell of a lot better than an 36lb 8-speed with an XCT.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

In my world, my Surly Krampus is "high end" because what I gave for it will be the most I will ever pay for a bike. I also plan to ride it for 20 years like I did my old Trek, so it is a long term purchase (investment?)

A friend of mine who rides pretty hardcore calls anything under $4k a "Wal-MArt Bike".

It is all perspective, and you have to figure out your own "box" of what is a quality bike for which price. Individuals have to put the reigns on what they will spend b/c the "marketplace" won't. The marketplace does not want to do that b/c it is counter-productive to what it wants to do.

I could have spent $4k on a bike, but did I really need to? DId I need to even spend what I did on the Surly? In my "box", the answer was yes. It fit my comfort zone.


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

mik_git said:


> Should have just kept riding the old Jekyll


I still have it, but a part broke and they don't make it anymore nor can I find it anywhere. So I was left with little choices.... Now it hangs in the garage as wall art....


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

sXeXBMXer said:


> In my world, my Surly Krampus is "high end" because what I gave for it will be the most I will ever pay for a bike. I also plan to ride it for 20 years like I did my old Trek, so it is a long term purchase (investment?)
> 
> A friend of mine who rides pretty hardcore calls anything under $4k a "Wal-MArt Bike".
> 
> ...


If you just banked away $40/month for 20 years you could afford a pretty nice bike.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> If you just banked away $40/month for 20 years you could afford a pretty nice bike.


yeah. I didn't ever plan on getting a new one - replacing my old Trek - until about 3 years ago.

Now, i am going to squirrel that away to pay for travel costs in the future for bike-packing trips...and should also probably sabe some for retirement too.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I for one never thought I would spend more than $1k for a bike, it seemed outrageous at first but then I got hooked and with a little hard work and uncle Sam's help I bought myself what I wanted and it will be with me for years to come (I hope) so I considered it a good investment. You have to work w/what you have and that's why there are so many price choices, so everyone can enjoy it at one level or another. I probably bought more bike that I need for my lousy skill level but I love it and that's all that matters.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2016)

I don't have any bikes past the $2K threshold, but my 1983 Colonago Mexico Record (at $1500) was pretty freaking expensive for the time. That being said, I pay for all my bikes the same way, commuting. I live 22 miles from work, the ride is 18.5 (shorter distance but slower in a car), I estimate that it cost about $.06 per mile to ride (in gear and wear and tear) but around $.60 per mile to drive. The savings each day I ride is about $24. Do that 50 times a year and you've saved $1200. Save $1200 for a few years and you won't worry about spending a few thousand on another bike. It's mostly a theory, but it keeps my wife happy when I buy a new bike.


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

Forster said:


> I don't have any bikes past the $2K threshold, but my 1983 Colonago Mexico Record (at $1500) was pretty freaking expensive for the time. That being said, I pay for all my bikes the same way, commuting. I live 22 miles from work, the ride is 18.5 (shorter distance but slower in a car), I estimate that it cost about $.06 per mile to ride (in gear and wear and tear) but around $.60 per mile to drive. The savings each day I ride is about $24. Do that 50 times a year and you've saved $1200. Save $1200 for a few years and you won't worry about spending a few thousand on another bike. It's mostly a theory, but it keeps my wife happy when I buy a new bike.


I so wish I could ride to work!


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

I will only buy used because the prices are unacceptable for what you get. What I dont understand is how people are able to buy them without any sort of decent financing options and no way to trade in their old bikes.

I was shocked to learn that bike shops dont sell used bikes, it just makes no sense, they are cutting out the majority of the market by not offering less expensive used options like a car dealer and forcing them to Walmart. Are they forbidden by bike companies to sell used bikes? Its probably the dumbest thing about the bike industry.


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## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

I shop for the best bike I can get that fits my criteria for the price i'm willing to pay. I don't necessarily get the bike of my dreams. My last purchase was a well spec'd blowout of probably the last group of 26ers manufactured. paid less that $1,500 for a very competent bike. I personally probably wouldn't spend more that 2K for a bike. I always look for used bikes first.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

idividebyzero said:


> I will only buy used because the prices are unacceptable. What I dont understand is how people are able to buy them without any sort of decent financing options and no way to trade in their old bikes.
> 
> I was shocked to learn that bike shops dont sell used bikes, it just makes no sense, they are cutting out the majority of the market by not offering less expensive used options like a car dealer and forcing them to Walmart. Are they forbidden by bike companies to sell used bikes? Its probably the dumbest thing about the bike industry.


Some LBS's just can't justify the floor space, plus the second hand market takes away from their new bike shop sales.

From a cost standpoint, definitely doesn't work. An LBS buys a used bike for $300 does $20 in labor and $40 in parts (at cost) and sells at $400 for a $40 profit. The buyer expects it to be good and the LBS's are out money on any service they have to do to fix it. Someone buys the same bike from another rider at $350, takes it to the bike shop to get something fixed, spends $80 on parts and pays for labor. LBS gets $40 parts profit plus labor. LBS wins. Plus they don't have to deal with 50 used bikes taking up floor space.

Only time used bike markets really work well is when the used market is completely saturated and they can buy them for cheap to sell elsewhere. Or at bike co-ops, where it's more of a community service/free thing.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

xler8 said:


> I would consider this as entry-level.


Agreed.


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

watts888 said:


> Some LBS's just can't justify the floor space, plus the second hand market takes away from their new bike shop sales.
> 
> From a cost standpoint, definitely doesn't work. An LBS buys a used bike for $300 does $20 in labor and $40 in parts (at cost) and sells at $400 for a $40 profit. The buyer expects it to be good and the LBS's are out money on any service they have to do to fix it. Someone buys the same bike from another rider at $350, takes it to the bike shop to get something fixed, spends $80 on parts and pays for labor. LBS gets $40 parts profit plus labor. LBS wins. Plus they don't have to deal with 50 used bikes taking up floor space.
> 
> Only time used bike markets really work well is when the used market is completely saturated and they can buy them for cheap to sell elsewhere. Or at bike co-ops, where it's more of a community service/free thing.


Thats not how the used business works, the margins are astronomical, they would buy the bike at 5-50% of what they think they could sell it for based on demand/rarity. If they bought a bike at $300 they would sell it for $1400. More big retail businesses are moving into the used market because of the extremely high margins. Craigslist and ebay are not competitors to a store that sells used stuff, the people that shop/sell on ebay are different than the people that want the ease/trust of just going to the store.


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## pcmark (Jul 10, 2010)

Curious as to what broke on the '04 Jekyll? I still have an '02 Jekyll that I ride regularly.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

idividebyzero said:


> I will only buy used because the prices are unacceptable for what you get. What I dont understand is how people are able to buy them without any sort of decent financing options and no way to trade in their old bikes.
> 
> I was shocked to learn that bike shops dont sell used bikes, it just makes no sense, they are cutting out the majority of the market by not offering less expensive used options like a car dealer and forcing them to Walmart. Are they forbidden by bike companies to sell used bikes? Its probably the dumbest thing about the bike industry.


A healthy used market requires an even more healthy new bike market...because that's the reason why people SELL used bikes.

Too much of a PITA to sell, and have a shop name behind, used bikes when you can just sell new bikes and let the buyers worry about selling their old bike and putting their reputation behind it.


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

xler8 said:


> Will prices keep climbing because people keep paying? Does the majority feel as though the cost of a mid\high-level bike justify what you actually get?


Always and rarely, respectively.

I can't name a single manufacturer who offers a bike with a component package that I would personally want, _in its entirety_, at any price. Frames(particularly carbon ones) also tend to be priced very high relative to the cost of a basic build package that, sooner or later, most will want to replace practically everything on. 
Either way, we're forced to pay a premium to have a bike with parts of our choice, and in that sense are going to get less than we pay for almost every time.

I really like how Turner bikes has introduced an increasing number of options up front, though, and think it can add a lot of value. It would be wonderful(however unrealistic to expect it), if every manufacturer could do something similar.
Check out Turner's site. You can buy a frame/shock, a frame/shock/headset/fork, choose from 5(7 including 2x options) drivetrain/brake combos, AND either pick from over half a dozen wheelsets or just buy an otherwise complete bike without wheels.
With some models you can also specify the shock that comes on your frame, and even include an optional dropper post. 
That's pretty awesome...


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

pcmark said:


> Curious as to what broke on the '04 Jekyll? I still have an '02 Jekyll that I ride regularly.


The trunion mount that the shock sits/threads in broke.


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## Dirk Ross (Jun 13, 2014)

OwenM said:


> Always and rarely, respectively.
> 
> I can't name a single manufacturer who offers a bike with a component package that I would personally want, _in its entirety_, at any price. Frames(particularly carbon ones) also tend to be priced very high relative to the cost of a basic build package that, sooner or later, most will want to replace practically everything on.
> Either way, we're forced to pay a premium to have a bike with parts of our choice, and in that sense are going to get less than we pay for almost every time.
> ...


I agree their build kit options are very good, and the 'budget' components in select builds (CC 40 headset, DT Swiss 350 hubs) are inexpensive but good bang for the buck. I purchased a Flux XT build a few years ago and it was very good to start with.

Now they just need to come out with more frame options than the Czar, RFX and soon to be released Flux carbon.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Used 26ers.


I've been looking for a sb66 off and on...and I can't find one for 1k.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

prices go up, wages remain stagnant. I think that's part of it. some of us are making good money, but for a large portion of America, that's not happening and a nice bike is unattainable, unless you are willing to make foolish choices with credit cards.

MTB/cycling is becoming the "new golf." it's what young professionals spend their disposable income on. that's fine- those people made good choices and should feel free to spend it on whatever they want. (IMO, spending some of it on paying their employees at the bottom a little more would be a good idea, but that's another topic.) it does leave the folks with more modest incomes feeling left out though. I don't think this is specific to mountain biking. much has been written about the demise of the middle class. what you're experiencing is a tiny sliver of that.

I have been working "real" jobs, or trying to, since I finished college in 2007 and I still am making just over $30K. I have a nice but pedestrian steel hardtail that I worked hard to build up over the years. If I was stolen tomorrow, I would not be riding for a long, long time because I could not afford anything that would seem worth riding to me. I have been thinking about getting a mid-level FS bike for a while but with the price of stuff and my chances of getting a job that does more than pay the bills, I might as well be saving up to buy a fully-functional Batmobile. Wayne Enterprises stuff is expensive!


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

The MTB demographic has changed. More about the bike then the skill or experience for many many more riders then when we started riding. Trail and bike design have made it easy enough for people to participate without putting in the hard work of developing bike skills. It's a lot more about being seen at the bike park, buying a new bike every couple years, and apres at the clique bar with craft beer and gastro pub noshing. A microcosm of the neo-liberal dream of an ever-growing rate of consuming, and the dumbing down and packaging of what once were real and gritty experiences that weeded out the shallow, and weak. MTB is dead. We now promote a Disney version marketed to gear ****s and posers, ego-driven and entitled. Bombs away!


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

we call them "dentists." not all of them are actually dentists and some of them are great riders, but they _seem to be_ driving the price of everything up.

DaveVt- in that vein- No more hippies and explorers: a lament for the changed world of cycling | Tom Marriage | Environment | The Guardian


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

mack_turtle said:


> DaveVt
> Yea I read that. Truth in there. Here's a clip from something I wrote a while back... "As we all glance over in horror at the political world careening out of reason and control, and the orgy for the Earths last water, material, and energy resource reaches a frenzied and ever more deadly stage, think about what your vote does. Also think about how you spend. Global Capitalism has taken control away from the citizens of the world politically. Wealth has been consolidated and with it, the power of wealth now belongs to a few. However, it's our money they still want. How you spend is far more important then how you vote. If you bounce along at the back of the perceived obsolescence bubble you will find that you aren't spending as much for "New", you aren't driving the machine of dirty materials extraction and manufacturing, and you find that the stuff that ends up back there with you was generally the simplest and most functional gear that held on the longest before getting phased out. You'll also find that you don't really need those new carbon bits, or bars that are an inch wider, or a bike with wheels 4 cm larger. You can still rock on 2010 stock. The masses of "Me-Too"s discard and disregard mountains of unused new, and barely used gear, and out of respect for the labor and resources expended to produce and ship it all around the world, we should, and in fact run it 'till it's done.
> 
> Back of the Bubble."
> ...


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

Bikes aren't expensive. You've just been convinced by clever marketers that you need to spend more on a bike than you are comfortable spending.

Here's the proof:

"Fast forward to 2015 and I set out to get a replacement for my Cannondale." Why are you replacing your $1200 Cannondale? Have the trails you ride changed to the point where the old bike no longer functions? Has your riding gotten so fast and so strong that the old bike can no longer withstand the forces your generate? Has every component and the frame catastrophically failed so it can't be replaced?

Probably not. The reason you are replacing your $1200 Cannondale is because bike companies (and other riders they've ingeniously recruited as indirect salespeople) have convinced you that your wheels size is too small, your travel is too low, your frame material is obsolete, your hubs are too narrow, your headset isn't big enough, you have too many gears (ha!), your stem is too long, your bars are too narrow, and your rims require inner tubes (gasp!) and your pedals suck.

It's you, not them. 

That said, if you really broke the frame, then it may be more complicated than just replacing a part and continuing to ride the old bike. But that also doesn't mean you need to go out and buy a $5000 bike. Hell, you can find a used Yeti ASR-5 frame from 2013 for under $1000 and have an amazing bike on which most of your 2004 components would work!


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

DaveVt said:


> The MTB demographic has changed. More about the bike then the skill or experience for many many more riders then when we started riding. Trail and bike design have made it easy enough for people to participate without putting in the hard work of developing bike skills. It's a lot more about being seen at the bike park, buying a new bike every couple years, and apres at the clique bar with craft beer and gastro pub noshing. A microcosm of the neo-liberal dream of an ever-growing rate of consuming, and the dumbing down and packaging of what once were real and gritty experiences that weeded out the shallow, and weak. MTB is dead. We now promote a Disney version marketed to gear ****s and posers, ego-driven and entitled. Bombs away!


Can't argue this...


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I encountered a younger guy on a really, really nice FS bike with zippy-looking microtread tires all the mechanical bells and whistles on a trail the other day. I stopped to chat and he asked me if the trail gets "better" at some point. I looked at the mile or so of flat, gnarly rock garden that we were traversing, which is challenging but fun for me, especially on the steel SS hardtail I was riding, and told him, "what are you talking about, this is the best stuff right here!" he didn't get it.

granted, he was also not wearing a helmet and had a backpack full of snacks and beer, and had a frustrated-looking girlfriend walking her bike far behind him. I guess a gnar riding session was not his mission that day, but his bike and attitude said that he was expecting buff hardpack with berms to make everything easier for him.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Me too. I bought a great FS bike in 2004 and it cost $3400. My latest FS bike costs $4k and is hugely better and much more bike. $4k in today's dollars is roughly $3200 in 2004 dollars, so accounting for inflation, it was a bit cheaper than my 2004 bike.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

The Specialized Epic Comp has actually dropped in price over the the past 4-5 seasons while adding some better components to boot.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Have cars or house prices increased in the last 10 years? Buy used or last years model. Start there. I drive a 99 corolla with 165 K on it. Somehow it frees up some money to buy bikes. I buy my cars used and pay cash. Are you making interest payments on a depreciating asset? Expensive? Try healthcare for the obese, fat and lazy. Rant over, it's just how one looks at things, thats all. Price of a never ending smile? Price of a my BP being 110/70?


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

KevinGT said:


> The reason you are replacing your $1200 Cannondale is because bike companies (and other riders they've ingeniously recruited as indirect salespeople) have convinced you that your wheels size is too small, your travel is too low, your frame material is obsolete, your hubs are too narrow, your headset isn't big enough, you have too many gears (ha!), your stem is too long, your bars are too narrow, and your rims require inner tubes (gasp!) and your pedals suck.
> 
> It's you, not them.


What kind of crap is that? Those grams and nanoseconds add up quick.
Do you even Strava, bro?

While I'm all for buying long-term and not being wasteful, this is still a hobby, so it's really ALL about wants, not needs. Fortunately, my wants are a lot more easily met than most people's, and I'll hopefully remain quite content with my aluminum frame and wheels, straight steerer, and QR skewers for years to come. That's not gonna hold true for everyone, though.
This forum is a huge source of temptation, too. Without the internet, we'd never know we "needed" all this stuff...


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

half of me wants to buy cool new stuff because it's fun and new stuff is better, although probably marginally so. the other half want to ride "old" stuff just to prove that you can still have fun and ride with skill, grace, and ... speed on stuff that is not cutting edge. the frugal, blue collar, moderate income part of my life make the latter win most of the time.

I admit I spend time on the internet looking at bike stuff just to scratch the "what should I buy next because I want to buy something" itch. the internet kindly obliges with lots of suggestions, most of which I don't listen to and then splurge on something crazy like... $20 gloves.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DaveVt said:


> The MTB demographic has changed. More about the bike then the skill or experience for many many more riders then when we started riding. Trail and bike design have made it easy enough for people to participate without putting in the hard work of developing bike skills. It's a lot more about being seen at the bike park, buying a new bike every couple years, and apres at the clique bar with craft beer and gastro pub noshing. A microcosm of the neo-liberal dream of an ever-growing rate of consuming, and the dumbing down and packaging of what once were real and gritty experiences that weeded out the shallow, and weak. MTB is dead. We now promote a Disney version marketed to gear ****s and posers, ego-driven and entitled. Bombs away!


 You forgot to include "Except for awesome people on Fargos, they're our only hope!"


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Ah yes, another series "I'm better because I still toil away on an old, if only just old style bike that you paid new bike prices for, bike because I met a beginner on a new bike" posts.

It really never gets old.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

mack_turtle said:


> half of me wants to buy cool new stuff because it's fun and new stuff is better, although probably marginally so. the other half want to ride "old" stuff just to prove that you can still have fun and ride with skill, grace, and ... speed on stuff that is not cutting edge. the frugal, blue collar, moderate income part of my life make the latter win most of the time.
> *
> I admit I spend time on the internet looking at bike stuff just to scratch the "what should I buy next because I want to buy something" itch*. the internet kindly obliges with lots of suggestions, most of which I don't listen to and then splurge on something crazy like... $20 gloves.


I do the same thing. I call it "Window Shopping". It definitely lets me scratch the itch without actually committing. It also has taught me exactly what many are saying in this thread...I don't need to spend a fortune to get a good bike.

I did recently buy a Krampus after riding my old Trek for ever. My justification was that for the past 30 years, I have been barely scraping by monetarily - which is by my own doing, so I am not complaining. In the past 5 years, the financial ship has righted itself, and I am now in a better position. It was a little "gift" to my self for having overcome some huge obstacles in my life.

I know that I was swayed by the stuff I was seeing on the web, and by peoples opinions, but I also gave my self a ceiling of $2000. I did roughly 3 years of research and riding before I committed to the Krampus.

10 years ago, I could not have even justified buying a used bike for $60 from a bike rehab place...the Krampus will most likely be my last major MTB purchase since I hope to get 20+ years out of it. i know I will only need a full rigid bike, so that helps me stay in a less astronomical budget.

To each his own I guess


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

I’m trying to see where the value is really. Let's be a little realistic here... you can buy a brand new motorcycle for the price of most bikes these days. I'm sure we all know how many parts and the amount of effort go into a motorcycle compared to that of a bicycle. So where's the justification that a bicycle should cost more than motorcycle or a used car for that matter? 

Also, with all the new "standards" that keep popping up, your chance of keeping a bike for a long time diminishes. As long as nothing breaks that is... I still have my older bike and rode the snot out of it, however a key part broke and is no longer made nor can one be located. There comes a point in time that whatever it is you’re talking about will need to be replaced. Wish things lasted forever…

I get it that things are what they are but either way you slice it, as long as there are people out there that will drop whatever kind of dollar figure on the next grade of carbon, the newest type of shifting, a new wheel size, a new tire size, different geometry, you name it, the ceiling is nowhere in sight.


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## pcmark (Jul 10, 2010)

xler8 said:


> The trunion mount that the shock sits/threads in broke.


 I see them pop up on Ebay occasionally, but if you REALLy don't want to buy a new bike check out Cannondale Jekyll Genesis Damper, Risse Racing Technology Online Store

New shock, Trunion included. Not sure if their trunion would work on the Fox shock. Thread pitch or inner diameter may be different.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

DaveVt said:


> The MTB demographic has changed. More about the bike then the skill or experience for many many more riders then when we started riding. Trail and bike design have made it easy enough for people to participate without putting in the hard work of developing bike skills. It's a lot more about being seen at the bike park, buying a new bike every couple years, and apres at the clique bar with craft beer and gastro pub noshing. A microcosm of the neo-liberal dream of an ever-growing rate of consuming, and the dumbing down and packaging of what once were real and gritty experiences that weeded out the shallow, and weak. MTB is dead. We now promote a Disney version marketed to gear ****s and posers, ego-driven and entitled. Bombs away!


Bombitty bomb!

Actually a pretty interesting post to consider.

I'll have to ruminate on this one for a while.


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

"MTB is dead." Uh, ok.. Then maybe move on to another hobby like sewing. I'm sure there are $5k sewing machines out there but you can sew with a $100 one too. Not sure that I agree that people that buy new and expensive gear are doing it just to hang out at a bar sipping craft beer. Plenty of people out there riding new bikes who don't ride in groups, hang out in parking lots, blah blah. Assuming things much?


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

Trevor Ochmonek said:


> "MTB is dead." Uh, ok.. Then maybe move on to another hobby like sewing. I'm sure there are $5k sewing machines out there but you can sew with a $100 one too. Not sure that I agree that people that buy new and expensive gear are doing it just to hang out at a bar sipping craft beer. Plenty of people out there riding new bikes who don't ride in groups, hang out in parking lots, blah blah. Assuming things much?


I didn't say everyone. I said many many more people then back when MTBing was hard or harder.


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## TSpice (May 15, 2015)

The problem is two fold.

First and foremost, if people will pay more, manufacturers will charge more, it is simple business. Why charge $1000, and get $200 in profit, when you can charge $1500 and people will still pay it and you get $700 in profit. Why does a nasty Bud Lite cost $8 at a ball game? People pay it. 

Secondly, the issue is that most people who haggle/nickle-dime/commodity-obsess over components, over exaggerate their importance by a LOT. 

The BEST example I have ever seen of this issue is going to Lowes and buying a hammer. A hammer is about as simple of an object as you can get, with about as simple of a purpose as you can think of. You hold it, you swing it, it smashes something else. Why is it, that you will see about 8 different manufacturers and about 15 different models? Not even talking about different types of hammers (Claw, ball peen, rubber, etc) I am talking about the variety in a SINGLE type. Price ranges from $10 to $100. It is a damn hammer, you hit stuff with it, doesn't have to be fancy. 

So think about biking, as you would think about that hammer analogy. You will get plenty of people who say the $10 is good enough. You will get some people who say anything less than the $100 is bound to fail and you are wasting your money on anything less. Some people will talk about how the rubber on the handle is better at dissipating vibration. Some people will talk about how the color on the handle is more appealing, making you swing it more accurately. In the end, it is a hammer. 

A vast majority of mountain bikers that I have seen, myself included, are on a bike that severely out-serves their abilities. In the case of the hammer, it would be like a guy who swings a hammer once, wants to buy the hammer designed for a contractor who swings it 500 times a day. Paying for overkill, because we can.


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## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

If you need the newest and "best" every year then yes it's gonna be expensive. If you just want to ride your bike, it's one of the cheaper outdoor hobbies out there in my opinion.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

If MTBing is dead, it's because of ****ing stupid e-bikes. They are going to **** everything up for us.


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## MuddyBikeRider (Apr 30, 2016)

I also have been baffled at the cost of bikes. I think it comes down to what people are willing to pay. Plus, bikes are that thing where you can just sit there and look at endless pictures of them and it makes you happy. There's not many things that can do that. Then you get all razzed up and drop $5k.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

MuddyBikeRider said:


> I also have been baffled at the cost of bikes. I think it comes down to what people are willing to pay. Plus, bikes are that thing where you can just sit there and look at endless pictures of them and it makes you happy. There's not many things that can do that. Then you get all razzed up and drop $5k.


There's also the fact that bikes (and parts) have gotten much, much better.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

I met a guy on the trails a couple weeks ago who was rocking a 1993 Super V, original owner. complete with bullhorn bar ends and thud-busting 2+ inches of Fatty headshock travel. 23 years on the same rig, are you kidding me? he asked me all kinds of questions about my Heckler (outdated 2015 R), but he was totally interested in getting a new bike.

Next time i see him on the trail i will get his contact info. so the OP can hit him up for that 23 year old SuperV.


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## FullBladdy (Aug 26, 2011)

For me life has a lot to do with balance. We spend lots of money on all sorts of things in our lives. The person living in the McMansion with the beamer in the driveway that is sliding quickly into financial ruin seems a lot more common than the person on the high end bike. Oh yeah they probably have a high end bike sitting in the garage next to the beamer. We are brought up in this culture to live beyond our means. Credit card companies flocking towards college campuses at the beginning of the school year, trade in and trade up deals on cars, keeping up with the Jones'. The list goes on and on. 

What I feel is different about bikes is what comes with that expense. An opportunity to get to the outdoors, getting in better shape, making like spirited like minded friends and creating fun times with family. You don't get any healthier in that expensive car. Biking creates good habits IMO. My brother and I have a tradition of biking together 1-3 times a week, we have never been closer or in better shape. My son is all into it as well at 7 years old and would rather spin around the block than sit in front of the t.v. For me this stuff doesn't have a price tag attached to it the way other purchases do, it goes way beyond that. 

When I was a kid the bike was the first taste of freedom I had, I could go places and explore so much more than just walking around the few blocks adjacent to my home. I learned that when you get slammed to the ground you can get up which also works well for surviving life's challenges. I learned how to take care of my bike and not leave it out in the rain, fix flats and all that other stuff which I feel builds character. My bike let me escape the kids on my side of town that were not nice to get to the other side where I made great friends. It was a tool of my youth.

Fast forward through my life and I have owned many bikes which I always paid for myself, never put on credit and thoroughly enjoyed every one of them. So yes as I am typing this in my garage/bike shop with a couple of high end carbon framed carbon wheeled bikes behind me I can justify my purchases. I get out and ride the crap out of them and could care less what other people think of how my ride stacks up. I include biking in my overall well being plan including healthy eating as well as a spiritual balance among other things. My wheel set costs twice the cost of my first real mountain bike and that is ok, balance being the key here. I do not have an expensive car and generally ride them into the ground. I do not spend lots of money on other material things to make me happy because my gear is what I value. I live in a nice home but am in no way out of my balance with income and what it cost to buy. Balance...

My bike today I leaps and bounds ahead of my first real bike with the newest being a full carbon full squish 29er with a solid group set. I am leaps and bounds better of a rider than when I bought that old Trek. I do not buy new bikes as I see no need, way too many people selling that bike in the garage that was next to the overpriced beamer. I hunt for months to find the right bike at the right price. My last bike I bought before the current one I rode for thousands of miles and still made $150 on it when I sold it. I would never buy my current bike at msrp but did jump on the deal after a 2.5 hour car ride to snag it. 

We all spend, no getting around that but when you add it all up and see where you shave off dollars and where you plunk some down bikes fall comfortably on the side of a good investment IMO. Getting around the inflated prices is a craft and getting the deal takes time that is part of it for me.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Bikes 'are' frickin expensive ^^ but they're so much bloody fun!!

-----------------------------------------------------------
#1 resolution... Ride it like I stole it!!


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

*No, new bikes are cheap*

I know it may not feel this way, but stick with me:

A) Once you account for inflation a $2500 2004 bike should be compared to a $3200 2016 bike.

B) The alloy frame on a 2016 bike will be much better than the older bike. Not only is the geometry and probably durability better, but the bearings are likely to be much more durable and less prone to slop.

C) The high prices you see today are often on carbon framed bikes. This is actually cool because it means if you have the $ then you also have some cool options. I own a TBLTc with carbon wheels, and I don't regret the $ for a second. But I happen to be able to afford to spend it. While I get that not everyone would want to, it's great to have the option.

D) Those 2004 XT/XTR components aren't nearly as good as even STX ones today. So yes, buying a new bike with XTR is crazy expensive but a $2000ish bike today is worlds better than what you could buy in 2003 for any price.

Intense Spider 275A Foundation Bike 2015 > Bikes > Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA

NS Bikes Snabb T1 Bike 2015 > Bikes > Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA

Just look at this and laugh at what you used to ride in 2004
Trek Slash 7 27.5 - Trek Bicycle Superstore


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

Looks like what's been happening with cars, too. 

My old Honda in the 80's was super cheap. It was also far less safe and much worse performing than the cheapest cars sold today.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Not saying this is consistent with "Biking was hard then" silliness, but it is a great video from Herbold and the The Pros's Closet, on whis world champinship DH rig and racing back in the day.


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> If MTBing is dead, it's because of ****ing stupid e-bikes. They are going to **** everything up for us.


I think different versions of Trail Riding have diverged enough to become their own genre completely. In the same way ski area and equipment technology caused that activity to splinter in the 1930-60s, and again in the 1990s.

You're either on a groomer being seen, or you're in the BC escaping from the scene. E bikes are the Sled-Access of our time.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

there are a lot more options these days, way more for your money.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

ooops! wrong video above






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

IME mountain biking wasn't harder in the past, but I walk much less these days, and don't get hurt as much. Is it more expensive? My 89 Stumpy was $1400 which is almost $2800 today. Heavy, rigid steel frame & fork, canties, full XT. For $100 more I can pick up the base model Troy at full MSRP. Not high end components but 10 X the bike that old Stumpy was. There were full rigid bikes back then over $2500 back then, look what $5000 will get now.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

schnee said:


> Looks like what's been happening with cars, too.
> 
> My old Honda in the 80's was super cheap. It was also far less safe and much worse performing than the cheapest cars sold today.


While computers get more powerful and cheaper all the time.


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## Mr5150 (Dec 20, 2011)

schnee said:


> Looks like what's been happening with cars, too.
> 
> My old Honda in the 80's was super cheap. It was also far less safe and much worse performing than the cheapest cars sold today.


And yet, my 2002 Subaru Legacy was 22K new. A 2016 Legacy, same level of trim is 25K. No. There is more going on than component improvements and carbon frame sets.

I built my 2008 Superlight with custom wheels and an XT drivetrain to the tune of $3600. 26.5 bs, with pedals. Sure I did some prudent shopping, but still. My guess that same build would exceed $6000 today.

Skis cost the same as they did in 2002 despite technological improvements. My flute and Sax are over 20 years old and the list price today is maybe 5%-10% higher than in 1996. Nope, there is more going on than carbon frames and 11 speed rear cassettes.



Travis Bickle said:


> IME mountain biking wasn't harder in the past, but I walk much less these days, and don't get hurt as much. Is it more expensive? My 89 Stumpy was $1400 which is almost $2800 today. Heavy, rigid steel frame & fork, canties, full XT. For $100 more I can pick up the base model Troy at full MSRP. Not high end components but 10 X the bike that old Stumpy was. There were full rigid bikes back then over $2500 back then, look what $5000 will get now.


Well my 853 Steel 1999 Kona Expolsif comes in at 24.5 lbs, with pedals. Aside from side pull brakes and 26" wheels, I don't see how a $5000 hardtail is gonna be that much better. The initial build cost me $1800. Full XT with a high end fork. I was amazed to see Trek offering a Carbon HT for $10,000! Come on...


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

In the 90s, there were mostly steel rigids, but they were hand made in the USA, Japan or Europe for the most part. I would bet less inflation adjusted labor cost goes into bikes these days for sure.

The price increase is the cost of innovation. Nowadays grown men with jobs are supporting the industry. We will pay more for incremental improvements, so the industry provides. I don't remember many adults riding back when I was a kid. Nowadays it is an adult dominated sport. So, like golf, we get insane amounts of innovative tweaks that cost an arm and a leg.

Overall though I think you can get a capable bike for far less nowadays, thanks to Ebay and Craigslist providing a massive buyer base and thereby making it worthwhile for used sellers ... not to mention the european retailers undercutting north American distribution channels.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

These always come up, and they're annoying. The answers are always the same.

1. Inflation.
2. MTB tech improvements HAVE been accumulating, but they've mostly been pretty subtle improvements that don't scream at you. They're still improvements. My 2015 bike is a much better bike than my 2003 bike. The cost difference is pretty large between them. But yeah, they're both FS mtb's.
3. The price ceiling is getting much higher, true, but that's coming from new products being released at the top end because people are buying them. Read a bit about the history of Zipp wheels sometime. They were one of the companies that pioneered multi-thousand dollar wheelsets. There was doubt that they'd sell at that price, but enough did that they made money. Now there are lots of companies competing in that space. HED, ENVE, etc. $2,000-$3,000 for wheels, when lots here are whining about that much for whole bikes. Nobody says you gotta buy that stuff, except maybe your lawyer or doctor buddies. The nice thing is that there's a lot of tech trickling down, too. So the "budget" or "value" stuff now works just as well, if not better, than the top end stuff 15yrs ago.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Back in '96 it was possible to spend $5,000 on a custom build with all top of the line parts.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

xler8 said:


> Does the majority feel as though the cost of a mid\high-level bike justify what you actually get?


The cost of a mid/high-level bike does not justify what you actually get, in my opinion. I don't begrudge those who want to spend a ton on their bikes, and I'm more than happy to buy those same bikes at a significant discount a year or 3 later. I choose to go the budget route and find that it doesn't negatively affect my riding or my enjoyment. Every one of the 2 dozen or so mountain bikes I have bought since 1994 has been used. The only reason my bikes in the 10 years before that were new is that I worked in the industry and didn't pay retail.

One of my main criteria for purchasing a bike is whether or not I can turn it for a profit if I don't like it. I bought a used aluminum 29'er hardtail with X-9 / XT mix for $425 three years ago and have put 3500 miles on it, including 100+ hard miles in Moab one weekend. My 1997 titanium soft tail has seen over 20,000 dirt miles since I bought it in 2004. I still place ahead of riders on newer / more expensive bikes at some races and have at least as much fun as most everyone on the course. Also, if my used bike gets damaged I am not heartbroken. I never put the first scratch or dent in my bikes.

We are not at the mercy of the bike industry marketers who would have us think we need the newest and greatest. None of my bikes is newer than 2014. If you want newer and greater, careful shopping and watching for deals means you don't have to pay through the nose either. My current stable of a ti soft tail, high end 29'r XC full squish, and carbon 29'r hardtail would retail for $15k, but I have about 20% of that invested.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

pcmark said:


> I see them pop up on Ebay occasionally, but if you REALLy don't want to buy a new bike check out Cannondale Jekyll Genesis Damper, Risse Racing Technology Online Store
> 
> New shock, Trunion included. Not sure if their trunion would work on the Fox shock. Thread pitch or inner diameter may be different.


Check it out--someone actually helped find a solution to a problem. 
Wasn't expecting that in this thread...


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

cjsb said:


> Not saying this is consistent with "Biking was hard then" silliness, but it is a great video from Herbold and the The Pros's Closet, on whis world champinship DH rig and racing back in the day.


Head on over to Red Bull TV and watch one of the WC DH races, there is simply no comparison to what people called "Downhill Racing" back then to what it is right now.



Mr5150 said:


> I built my 2008 Superlight with custom wheels and an XT drivetrain to the tune of $3600. 26.5 bs, with pedals. Sure I did some prudent shopping, but still. My guess that same build would exceed $6000 today.


lol, no....not even close.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Buy direct wasn't available either ten+ years ago. Significant savings there for the cost conscious. If you are still living in the past, don't accept inflation in costs, and don't want a department store bike, then a direct seller via the internet can be just the right curte for you. Kep in mind that if you also have some religious devotion to the independent LBS model that you will be cutting them out completely.

It would be an interersting exercise for all those bemoaning and *****ing about cost of bikes to compare to the bikes direct rertailer, where you are getting closer to the cost of the bike and the overhead to create that bike, i.e., you are cutting out/down distribution costs drastically. All I am saying here is that the market will hear your *****ing and save on distribution costs in the coming years because the manufacturing and design are so crazy competitive right now, the obvious place for cost savings for the consumer will be a massiv scale down for the Independent LBS. On that note I see KTM bike ads alot more lately, are those sold at MotoX stores or do they deal with the Ind. LBS? Another way to lower distribution costs is to work with existing distribution networks not just contracts with one-off shops all across America. Or, heaven forbid, buy a Specialized at Costco? wait, didn't they almost ruin te company back in the day when they tried just that? Oh well, it's coming...


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## xler8 (Oct 22, 2015)

knutso said:


> The price increase is the cost of innovation. Nowadays grown men with jobs are supporting the industry. We will pay more for incremental improvements, so the industry provides. I don't remember many adults riding back when I was a kid. Nowadays it is an adult dominated sport. So, like golf, we get insane amounts of innovative tweaks that cost an arm and a leg.


I feel the innovation part is rather inflated, however there's no doubt that things have progressed over the years.

The part about grown men\women supporting the industry is something that I really didn't pay attention to, but it is very true. Every time I head out on the trail, I rarely see young people out there. It's mostly older folks who have the disposable income for their $5-8k bike, be it on-road or off-road. I also don't remember many adults riding back when I was a kid and that is not the case anymore... That says a lot...


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

xler8 said:


> I also don't remember many adults riding back when I was a kid and that is not the case anymore... That says a lot...


I wonder if this is a generational issue with the introduction of mandatory bike helmets? When I was a kid, nobody wore helmets, and riding a bike is just what you did. The classic "where's Billy?" issue was solved by looking for the stack of bikes in front of someones house. Only way for kids to see each other and hang out, was to get out and ride your bike.

Playstation and Xbox, you have doomed us all. Nintendo, with your horrible VOIP, not so much.


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## gregg (Sep 30, 2000)

Does this help?

Round up: Best value mountain bikes under $1000 - Mtbr.com


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## bigbird (Nov 18, 2004)

FullBladdy said:


> For me life has a lot to do with balance. We spend lots of money on all sorts of things in our lives. The person living in the McMansion with the beamer in the driveway that is sliding quickly into financial ruin seems a lot more common than the person on the high end bike. Oh yeah they probably have a high end bike sitting in the garage next to the beamer. We are brought up in this culture to live beyond our means. Credit card companies flocking towards college campuses at the beginning of the school year, trade in and trade up deals on cars, keeping up with the Jones'. The list goes on and on.
> 
> What I feel is different about bikes is what comes with that expense. An opportunity to get to the outdoors, getting in better shape, making like spirited like minded friends and creating fun times with family. You don't get any healthier in that expensive car. Biking creates good habits IMO. My brother and I have a tradition of biking together 1-3 times a week, we have never been closer or in better shape. My son is all into it as well at 7 years old and would rather spin around the block than sit in front of the t.v. For me this stuff doesn't have a price tag attached to it the way other purchases do, it goes way beyond that.
> 
> ...


oh so true and spot on! I too came from the time when riding my bike was a way of transportation to my friends house and a way to go where I wanted to. in grammar school I rode and raced BMX, moved to road in high school, stopped for a few years, and once I had kids, I started again but this time on a mtn bike and have never looked back. as I have gotten older and making more money and having a larger disposable income I choose to spend it on the best I can buy. I currently own 3 bikes (Intense 951, Tazer and my most recent purchase of a '15 Intense Tracer carbon with quite a bit of customization). Why? because my riding dictates that I can appreciate the nuances of a almost flawless machine under me, I didn't buy a mc mansion of a house, put money aside for both my kids college (which the last one graduates in 2 weeks), and have worked hard to get where I am in my career. everyone chooses their path. and like fullbladdy said, its all about balance and priorities. I for one would not want the old bikes I had 20 years ago. Am I justifying the price of new bikes? I do think they are somewhat over priced but coming from the perspective of working in a small privately owned company and in manufacturing I can justify some of the pricing. Over the years I have "upgraded" on every bike I have bought and sold in order to get a better one as technology has advanced along with my riding abilities. Why would someone not want to buy the best equipment that they can afford to enhance their enjoyment of their respective hobby? most people have a hobby or an obsession......for me both are mtn biking.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

You get more for your money now than ever before. What's changed is the increased number of high-end bikes available. You don't have to buy a super expensive bike just like you don't have to buy a super expensive car.


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## rj2 (Oct 19, 2004)

I bought a new 2004 Giant NRS 1 for $1,800 and upgraded it throughout the years with wheel set and new components. I finally replaced last year it with a used 2013 Giant Anthem X Advanced 29er for $2,400 ($4,800 new) and upgraded the wheel set. Given the cost of money, I made a significant upgrade. The bike is faster and I'm having more fun. Deals are out there, you just need to be patient and ready to pull the trigger when the right deal comes your way. 

A $4k hardtail is more high than mid level to me. Take a look at the KTM Aera, $2,850 carbon hardtail with 2x XT and carbon wheels.


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## bloaker (Feb 13, 2015)

Its not hard to not blow a wad of money on a bike. You just have to look.

Niner EMD 9 1 Star Deore Bike > Bikes > Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA

I consider "Deore" intro to real bikes - you can call it beginner, but if someone can beat you handily on their high dollar rig, they will beat you on this one too. People like to lie to themselves and consider the bike the limiting factor - news flash - that is a rare occurrence. I have yet to meet someone who did a climb on an XTR bike that would not have been able to do the same climb on a Deore level bike.

The nice part about a Deore bike - as stuff breaks or birthdays/holidays come around, you can upgrade a part at a time and it is compatible with better stuff. Or you can buy something like this niner linked above and drop another $600 in XT8000 parts and have a full XT 1x11 with the M8000 brakes... Somewhere down the road, you can buy wheels as well... but it isn't hard to get going.

You can look at last years blowouts of a Kona Honzo, Jamis Dragon, etc...

The latest and greatest is out there if you want it, but then you have to pay for it. But a completely acceptable bike that can handle what most people dish out can be gotten for <2K.

I have found people have in their head "I won't buy anything below XT" and then they ***** about the prices. So they ultimately buy nothing while some one is out ripping up the trails on a Single Speed rigid that cost $800.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

here is an example of what I consider and very high end bike, with extras, for less than $2K.

Everything carbon, extralite bar, ceramic hubs, Kashima shock, carbon lefty, Hollowgram crank....Insanely light....COMMON!!! I'm actually angry because I didn't go for it...because I already have a great bike and I have sanity.

Be smart, go ebay...with some patience you can get some unreal deals.

2011 Cannondale Scalpel Carbon 26 Super Lite Custom Build 17lb 14oz Size M | eBay


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## shawnbbiking (Mar 6, 2015)

sXeXBMXer said:


> A friend of mine who rides pretty hardcore calls anything under $4k a "Wal-MArt Bike".


Walmart mountain bikes tend to be about $200. Someone that only rides once or twice per month, and thinks 10 miles is a long ride, should probably spend $3000 or less.

I have been riding a lot of demo bikes because I'm in the market for a new bike. My current bike is a 2004 Specialized Stump Jumper Pro Disc (28 pound aluminum 26"). I think I paid about $1800 in 2004 for this bike. I use this bike for entertainment, commuting, and for racing (yes racing).

I find that if I borrow a $10,000 MSRP demo bike, I am about 18% faster. A $6,000 MSRP demo bike gets me about 15% faster. A $4,000 MSRP bike gets me about 5% faster. Anything cheaper than $4,000 will be the same or slower than my 2004 Stumpy.

So, there is no reason for me to buy a new bike unless i get at least a $6000 MSRP bike. I have seen some nice bikes on sale for 35% off. So, the best scenario would be to buy a $6K bike on sale for $4K.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Good grief, I had friends who were working minimum wage jobs ($3/hr) and buying $1,000+ bikes in the 80's. *The 80's!!!*


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## worldkaoz (Feb 19, 2015)

FullBladdy said:


> For me life has a lot to do with balance. We spend lots of money on all sorts of things in our lives. The person living in the McMansion with the beamer in the driveway that is sliding quickly into financial ruin seems a lot more common than the person on the high end bike. Oh yeah they probably have a high end bike sitting in the garage next to the beamer. We are brought up in this culture to live beyond our means. Credit card companies flocking towards college campuses at the beginning of the school year, trade in and trade up deals on cars, keeping up with the Jones'. The list goes on and on.
> 
> What I feel is different about bikes is what comes with that expense. An opportunity to get to the outdoors, getting in better shape, making like spirited like minded friends and creating fun times with family. You don't get any healthier in that expensive car. Biking creates good habits IMO. My brother and I have a tradition of biking together 1-3 times a week, we have never been closer or in better shape. My son is all into it as well at 7 years old and would rather spin around the block than sit in front of the t.v. For me this stuff doesn't have a price tag attached to it the way other purchases do, it goes way beyond that.
> 
> ...


You sir are my new favorite person on the Internet. You get it. I couldn't have said it any better myself


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## worldkaoz (Feb 19, 2015)

Travis Bickle said:


> IME mountain biking wasn't harder in the past, but I walk much less these days, and don't get hurt as much. Is it more expensive? My 89 Stumpy was $1400 which is almost $2800 today. Heavy, rigid steel frame & fork, canties, full XT. For $100 more I can pick up the base model Troy at full MSRP. Not high end components but 10 X the bike that old Stumpy was. There were full rigid bikes back then over $2500 back then, look what $5000 will get now.


I bought a brand new 2015 troy xp in Feb for $2,060


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

dfiler said:


> You get more for your money now than ever before. What's changed is the increased number of high-end bikes available. You don't have to buy a super expensive bike just like you don't have to buy a super expensive car.


Yep, I agree. Yesterday, you couldn't buy today's technology no matter how much money you had.


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## worldkaoz (Feb 19, 2015)

rj2 said:


> I bought a new 2004 Giant NRS 1 for $1,800 and upgraded it throughout the years with wheel set and new components. I finally replaced last year it with a used 2013 Giant Anthem X Advanced 29er for $2,400 ($4,800 new) and upgraded the wheel set. Given the cost of money, I made a significant upgrade. The bike is faster and I'm having more fun. Deals are out there, you just need to be patient and ready to pull the trigger when the right deal comes your way.
> 
> A $4k hardtail is more high than mid level to me. Take a look at the KTM Aera, $2,850 carbon hardtail with 2x XT and carbon wheels.


KTM Line CC 27.5" Mavic/Deore
Are you sure these are carbon Wheels?


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## worldkaoz (Feb 19, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> Good grief, I had friends who were working minimum wage jobs ($3/hr) and buying $1,000+ bikes in the 80's. *The 80's!!!*


Priorities...your friends understand life


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## mikeinaz (Jul 18, 2011)

*Buy it used*

I dropped $3K for a new Giant back in 2013. It's got a couple thousand miles on it now. I'm thinking of getting something newer and lighter. The bike I want is about $5K. But I think I can find one a year old for around $2500.

There's plenty of people who will get a new bike every year, ride in a few races and then dump it. If it's maintained well, it should last and last.

Shop around.


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## Killrop (Jul 4, 2008)

xler8 said:


> Back in 2004 I bought a new FS bike and thought that I was spending a lot of money. The bike was a Cannondale Jekyll and the cost was around $1200. I thought to myself, wow that's a lot of money for two wheels, it's just a bicycle. For that price I can get a car...
> 
> Fast forward to 2015 and I set out to get a replacement for my Cannondale. Come to find out that prices have increased significantly:eekster:. However the bikes themselves have not advances as much as the pricing has. I ended up paying a little less than $4k for my new bike and I must say that the difference between the two (2004 vs. 2015) does not reflect the increase in cost. I can see that there is inflation baked in, but let's be realistic.
> 
> ...


I recently bought a Giant Advanced 2 29er. It was about 2K. This bike about 6 years ago would have been about $1300. Carbon has jacked up pricing but components are outrageous. It's not the LBS cashing in, that's for sure. Almost all these parts are made in Asia. So who is making all the money? Shimano and Sram I guess. But I also know enough about supply and demand. Prices would come down if people weren't buying the stuff.

However I agree with the OP. It's as if bike prices are directly tied to college tuition. The price increase doesn't match the increase of inflation.


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## surfndav (Aug 3, 2007)

watts888 said:


> Talon 27.5 2 (2016) | Giant Bicycles | United States
> 
> All about what you consider mid level. It's good, but not great.


In 1998 I bought a Specialized Stumper comp for I think the price was $1299. The Giant referenced is probably a much better bike in all respects. It's all about prospective.


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## Toxteth O'Grady USA (Feb 2, 2016)

a $29,000 Ducati will get you around the track just as fast as a used $3,000 Kawasaki, unless your Valentino Rossi, lol. However, people buying $29,000 Ducatis are what drive inovation forward. Aluminum frames, disc brakes, anti-lock brakes, traction control, suspension, etc. are all things that have developed from people buying the high end race replicas. These innovations become commonplace and trickle down to the lower end bikes to create a safe and fun riding environment. 

The same can be said for bicycles. Whether road or dirt, the high end bikes keep the innovation and companies alive, which in turn trickle down and become commonplace on cheaper bikes, creating a fun and safer riding experience for all. 

I love my 20 year old Cannondale. I love $8,000 bikes too. Nobody has to spend that kind of money if they don't want to. Don't judge someone with money buying one. Without them, we'd all be on pennyfarthings!!


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## Guest (May 3, 2016)

Toxteth O'Grady said:


> a $29,000 Ducati will get you around the track just as fast as a used $3,000 Kawasaki, unless your *Casey Stoner*, lol. However, people buying $29,000 Ducatis are what drive innovation forward. Aluminum frames, disc brakes, anti-lock brakes, traction control, suspension, etc. are all things that have developed from people buying the high end race replicas. These innovations become commonplace and trickle down to the lower end bikes to create a safe and fun riding environment.


superior example..


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Toxteth O'Grady said:


> a $29,000 Ducati will get you around the track just as fast as a used $3,000 Kawasaki


I agree here. In fact it'll get you around the track a little faster and in a lot more style!


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Toxteth O'Grady said:


> a $29,000 Ducati will get you around the track just as fast as a used $3,000 Kawasaki, unless your Valentino Rossi, lol. However, people buying $29,000 Ducatis are what drive inovation forward. Aluminum frames, disc brakes, anti-lock brakes, traction control, suspension, etc. are all things that have developed from people buying the high end race replicas. These innovations become commonplace and trickle down to the lower end bikes to create a safe and fun riding environment.
> 
> The same can be said for bicycles. Whether road or dirt, the high end bikes keep the innovation and companies alive, which in turn trickle down and become commonplace on cheaper bikes, creating a fun and safer riding experience for all.
> 
> I love my 20 year old Cannondale. I love $8,000 bikes too. Nobody has to spend that kind of money if they don't want to. Don't judge someone with money buying one. Without them, we'd all be on pennyfarthings!!


One of the most reasonable, thought out posts I've read. +1


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## Toxteth O'Grady USA (Feb 2, 2016)

nvphatty said:


> superior example..


 Casey Stoner!! Ya got me, lol


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## db440 (Jul 1, 2014)

When I first started shopping around for a FS bike, I had every intention of finding a great deal; be it used, last years model, closeout, ect... I ended up falling in love with a bike made here in CO (a GG Megatrail) and spent months figuring out how to finance it. I ended up selling a lot of nice musical equipment i've collected over the years to do so. I never would have planned on spending 4k+ on a bike, and honestly feel a bit guilty doing so, but I ride the hell out of it and am more than pleased with my investment. I also like supporting a small company that is breaking into the bike world. They are certainly not getting rich at this point.

To be honest, I really contemplate this type of thing on a deeper level. Seriously, there are many people hungry in the world, and i'm spending all this money, time and energy to go ride my bike. It is a confusing feeling, but at the same time there is no price tag for the inspiration, joy, and sense of adventure I get from riding and from progressing my skills. I am absolutely a better person with a passion for mtb in my life. I don't have time and money to travel and ride, but some day I want to check out a lot of the wonderful terrain and systems evolving all around this country. 

Yeah, I could definitely do all this on a way less expensive bike. I find no thrill in having a pricey ride, in fact I don't tell anyone how much money i've spent, although on the trails there are those who already know. I have to agree with the observation that the majority of riders I see on the trail are middle age (like me), who are probably reconnecting with a sense of youth and adventure in a similar way. I see a lot of really nice (expensive) bikes on the trail. I also know a number of people who ride really well and will never spend big money on a bike. It's all good.

Whoever said it's all about balance hit the nail on the head. It's hard to put things like true value into perspective in our crazy world, and that's not going to change anytime soon. If people keep buying high priced bikes, someone will keep making them, and someone else will be stoked to take it off their hands when they let it go!


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

This whole thread is pretty much why I buy slightly used frames and still ride 26" wheels. I built my 2014 Yeti SB66 in 2015 with a used frame and the whole thing cost less than the 2015 SB6c frame, even including parts I've upgraded since I built it. Prior to that I broke even on a 2011 Pivot Firebird frame after riding it for a while, and all my parts carried over.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

sXeXBMXer said:


> In my world, my Surly Krampus is "high end" because what I gave for* it will be the most I will ever pay for a bike*. I also plan to ride it for 20 years like I did my old Trek, so it is a long term purchase (investment?)
> 
> A friend of mine who rides pretty hardcore calls anything under $4k a "Wal-MArt Bike".
> 
> ...


I don't think that bolded part will hold true unless you give up the hobby. Inflation alone will mean you'll be paying what you did for the Surly but for a Walmart bike 20 years from now.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

db440 said:


> When I first started shopping around for a FS bike, I had every intention of finding a great deal; be it used, last years model, closeout, ect... I ended up falling in love with a bike made here in CO (a GG Megatrail) and spent months figuring out how to finance it. I ended up selling a lot of nice musical equipment i've collected over the years to do so. I never would have planned on spending 4k+ on a bike, and honestly feel a bit guilty doing so, but I ride the hell out of it and am more than pleased with my investment. I also like supporting a small company that is breaking into the bike world. They are certainly not getting rich at this point.
> 
> To be honest, I really contemplate this type of thing on a deeper level. Seriously, there are many people hungry in the world, and i'm spending all this money, time and energy to go ride my bike. It is a confusing feeling, but at the same time there is no price tag for the inspiration, joy, and sense of adventure I get from riding and from progressing my skills. I am absolutely a better person with a passion for mtb in my life. I don't have time and money to travel and ride, but some day I want to check out a lot of the wonderful terrain and systems evolving all around this country.
> 
> ...


I read a review about this bike. It's very interesting. It's a lotta bike for the money. Have you posted any pictures of it? I'd like to see it and hear what you have to say about it.
Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail Frame - Reviews, Comparisons, Specs - Mountain Bike Frames - Vital MTB


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Alias530 said:


> I don't think that bolded part will hold true unless you give up the hobby. Inflation alone will mean you'll be paying what you did for the Surly but for a Walmart bike 20 years from now.


Well, I meant me personally since I hope that the Surly is the last MTB I will need. The way I see it, and the way I treat my body now, in 20 years, I will be too bent and broken to ride, and hopefully the Surly will not get broke, or stolen.....

I do agree with you that people in general will be most likely paying $1000's for Wal Mart bikes in 20 years.


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## jscott36 (Nov 21, 2010)

*Used 26er FS bike*



Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Used 26ers.


Yes! 26er used.

I bought this $800 26er on Craigslist last Fall. 2009 Cannondale Rize 4. 140mm front 130mm rear. Great reviews. My first FS.

It was used very little. But get this - it sat on Craigslist for over 2 months!

The listing on REI with its specs are still there but the bike isn't available.

Here's the REI link:
https://www.rei.com/product/777318/cannondale-rize-4-bike-2009


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

jscott36 said:


> Yes! 26er used.
> 
> I bought this $800 26er on Craigslist last Fall. 2009 Cannondale Rize 4. 140mm front 130mm rear. Great reviews. My first FS.
> 
> ...


There are so many great finds out there. As I posted earlier...its also possible to go very high end for under 2k just by looking on ebay:

Everything carbon, extralite bar, ceramic hubs, Kashima shock, carbon lefty, Hollowgram crank....Insanely light!

2011 Cannondale Scalpel Carbon 26 Super Lite Custom Build 17lb 14oz Size M | eBay


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