# Help: Specialized Safire Expert Carbon vs. Ibis Mojo



## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

First, about me and my riding style: 5'4", 108lb. I'm more thrilled about climbing steep hills and technical hills than going fast or bombing downhill. I love long rides (6-10 hours).

Second: the bikes I have considered based on what I read, heard, and seen (all '09):

Ibis Mojo SL
Specialized Safire Expert Carbon
Trek Fuel Carbon Ex 9.8
However, I've never had a chance to test Trek. I don't want to wait any more, so I'll have to choose between Safire and Mojo. But I'm having a very hard time deciding since this is a big purchase for me. Plus, this is the first time I'm buying a new bike (I got my current bike used off of craigslist and did not know anything about bike at all at the time). The factors I've considered include:

Price: It seems that I can find special on Safire, bug Mojo is so hot that everyone is selling them for MSRP.
Ride Quality: I did not ride them back to back, but both impressed me when I rode them (months apart)
Customer service and warranty: No experience with either.
Cool factor: Safire looks very feminine, but Mojo is just beautiful.
Did I miss anything? If you have any comment that you think will be helpful in my quest for a new bike, please do not hesitate to share. I'd appreciate any input.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

5. Smile factor, which one gives you the biggest grin.
6. Fit, which one is most comfortable to ride.

(hint, don't over think the purchase )


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## bensf (Mar 8, 2007)

Ibis warranteed my frame in less than a week.


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

I ride a mojo, it just picked me really. I built mine up from the frame though, Fox Vanilla fork, XTR components, Avid Elixir brakes, custom saddle. I have to say its one of the best riding bikes I have been on. I am absolutely in love with it. The Safire just did not sit well with me, I checked it out and the whole feel of it seemed cheap to me. But you should really just choose whichever one feels best to you. I am sure you will be happy with your choice either way you are getting a great bike.


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

I ride a Safire and love it. Unlike ThePinkBarron, it doesn't feel cheap to me. But! I'm sure I'm nowhere near as skilled or aggressive a rider as she is.  The Safire is a great bike, I adore mine, but...it just seems to be lacking something that bikes like the Mojo or the Syren have. I think maybe it's lacking "attitude" for lack of a better word. There is no denying that the Safire is a pretty bike, but the Mojo is just flat-out sexy. And now that I'm done drooling over it, my advice is to ride them both again, as close together as possible. Whichever one feels better is the one to go with. They'll both serve you very well. Good luck and let us know which one you go with.


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

Thanks all for the input. More comments please keep coming. 

I'll report back once I made my decision. (I'm planning on doing a little more test riding.)


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

Swthrtsuzy said:


> I ride a Safire and love it. Unlike ThePinkBarron, it doesn't feel cheap to me. But! I'm sure I'm nowhere near as skilled or aggressive a rider as she is.  The Safire is a great bike, I adore mine, but...it just seems to be lacking something that bikes like the Mojo or the Syren have. I think maybe it's lacking "attitude" for lack of a better word. There is no denying that the Safire is a pretty bike, but the Mojo is just flat-out sexy. And now that I'm done drooling over it, my advice is to ride them both again, as close together as possible. Whichever one feels better is the one to go with. They'll both serve you very well. Good luck and let us know which one you go with.


Aggresive? nah not me, I just ride to ride. I just didnt like the feel of the Safire, I dont know why really but it did it felt chinsy to me. I am sure it is a great bike, just not for me.

And that is why a good extensive test ride is in order.


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

ThePinkBarron said:


> Aggresive? nah not me, I just ride to ride. I just didnt like the feel of the Safire, I dont know why really but it did it felt chinsy to me. I am sure it is a great bike, just not for me.
> 
> And that is why a good extensive test ride is in order.


:thumbsup:


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## adventuregirl (Mar 24, 2008)

I am also in the process of searching for my next ride. I am looking for 5-51/2 " travel trail bike. 
These are the bikes I have tried. I am 5'2" and the Ibis is just too big for me. I need an extra small for everything.

Specialized Safire: overall good bike. I was not too fond of the future shock. The top tube is short so it left me feeling a bit cramped.
Yeti 575. I like how this bike descends but even the ex-small felt too big.
Titus FTM. I tried a small but this was also too big(long top tube). I do want to try the ex-small when available. This thing is light and climbs really well.
Turner 5 spot. ex-small. This is the new one with the D-W link. I had heard a lot of great stuff but on the trail I just did not like the handling. It seemed to stiff even though the shock pressures were set for my weight (120)
Ventana El Ciclon. Really plush and handles nice. Goes up and down good. What's nice about Ventana is that for just a bit extra you can have the frame built just the way you want it.
Pivot Mach 5 women's design ex-small. So far this is my favorite. I met Chris Cocalis and he has put alot of extra thought into small riders including the valving on the shock. Instantly I felt comfortable on the bike. It makes me a faster rider. It is an awsome climber, soaks up the bumps and handles great.

I still want to try the Blur LT...especially seeing as it is coming out in a carbon frame.

Happy shopping


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## piaadoll (Dec 1, 2006)

oooooooooooh ibis mojo is so hotness! i'm too short, it won't fit me..cuz I'm 5.0.

however, this weekend I was able to sit on an XXS Pivot Mach IV at Sea Otter classic. oh man, fit me like a glove and is now my dream bike. I thought the Titus Racer X in XXS was my dream bike...but that Pivot totally wowed me. But, I'm totally fine with my 08 juliana. 
If i win lotto, I'm buying that Pivot. 



good luck! bike shopping is so fun!


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

Adventuregirl, thanks so much for the run down. Wow, that's a thorough job you are doing test riding different bikes to find THE ONE. 

I have indeed heard many good things about Pivot Mach 5, esp. about it's climbing ability. Seeing your post just rekindled my interest in test riding one. But being in the SF area, I called around a few Pivot dealer shops, and have no luck at all finding a Pivot Mach 5 Small, let alone a WSD. I got tied up with work last weekend and could not go to Sea Otter for Pivot demo. :madman:


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## adventuregirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Mudworm...have you talked with Chris at Roaring Mouse in the city. He may be able to arrange a demo.

Pivot also lists on there website the Demo schedule...they are going to be at Mt. Bike Oregon in July. What a great excuse for a vacation


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

adventuregirl said:


> Mudworm...have you talked with Chris at Roaring Mouse in the city. He may be able to arrange a demo.
> 
> Pivot also lists on there website the Demo schedule...they are going to be at Mt. Bike Oregon in July. What a great excuse for a vacation


Sent Chris an email per instructions in his greeting message. Have yet to hear back. I'm having my fingers crossed.

Oh Mt. Bike Oregon... The dates will not work for me, but I love riding in Oregon. We rode (part of) NUT and out and back on McKenzie River Trail last year. Love to go back.


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

mudworm said:


> Sent Chris an email per instructions in his greeting message. Have yet to hear back. I'm having my fingers crossed.


Wow, Chris got back to me. It seems that he'll build a small Mach 5 demo bike for us small folks. Whoohooo!  I did not consider Pivot until I read some comments about how well it climbs. Oh, I can't wait to take one to test! Maybe I'll be able to finally get that rock garden climb...


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## adventuregirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Mudworm...have you check the site for geomery and sizing. I found that with an inseam of 29.5" inches and being 5'2" I fit best on the extra small. You are a couple of inches taller than me though. It does seem that the standover is measured at the lowest point of the top tube and this is not necessarily where you end up when you stop.

The pivot is definately at the top of my list...I just need to save up a bit of cash because I want to build it up light with all the bling

You will love how this bike rides though.


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

Since Chris has to start somewhere to build a smaller Pivot Mach 5, he asked for all my measurements, which I happen to have at the tip of my fingers. I'm so excited.


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## adventuregirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Great...let me know your impressions once you get to ride it.

The next decision will be do you want the pink or the blue. Not too wild about the color choices but it's more about the ride.

Have fun.


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

Thanks, adventuregirl! Pink is not for me. Blue all the way!  I don't know how soon Chris can put one together. Hope not too long. My current bike's drivetrain is shot, so I'm in some kind of rush in my bike shopping. (I know it's not smart, but that's me, a procrastinator.)


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## OnYourLeft (Apr 25, 2008)

For longer riding, the geometry of a Safire will keep you very happy! Also, Specialized has a great warranty and excellent customer service, if needed. Personally, I ride the Specialized Era Marathon, but I wanted the more aggressive geometry for XC racing... otherwise I'd be on a Safire (or if I was racing Endurance XC, 50+ miles).


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

I've been busy bike shopping. I started a blog post to document the process, but I haven't had a chance to update it after I test rode 7 or 8 bikes this weekend. Will update it within a couple of days.

Here is just a quick shout out to others in the SF Bay Area who are looking for a small Pivot Mach 5 to test ride. Chris at Roaring Mouse has one built up available for test rides. It's a sweet ride. Check it out if you are in the market.


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## adventuregirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Mudworm...were you at the demo for Trailhead Cyclery? I was there hoping to try a small Santa Cruz Blur LT2...but now luck. So I rode the 575 again and my honey rode a Mojo which he's been meaning to try. I have contacted Danny from SC about getting a demo...I'll let you know if I have any luck with that. I'm also hoping to try an ex-small Titus FTM Saturday at Roaring Mouse.


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

Yes, I was there whole day on Saturday and for a couple of hours on Sunday morning when my girlfriend made a purchase on a Yeti 575. I was in a red helmet. 

I was disappointed that there was no Ibis Mojo small nor Blur LT2 small on site. My husband and my friend's husband both test rode a bunch of bikes on Saturday and Blur LT2 was their favorite. I look forward to getting on one that fits. Yes, please keep me posted (PM would work too if you prefer). Thank you!


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## poff (Dec 23, 2003)

Since you do these long Coe climbs, you should look at something with DW link suspension - like Mojo and Pivot. I would recommend Turner Flux or 5Spot. Ibis's SL model is about 3.4K while turner is 2K, and it climbs as well.

http://www.turnerbikes.com/09flux.html


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

poff said:


> Since you do these long Coe climbs, you should look at something with DW link suspension - like Mojo and Pivot. I would recommend Turner Flux or 5Spot. Ibis's SL model is about 3.4K while turner is 2K, and it climbs as well.


Thanks poff! Turner makes great bikes and I got strong recommendations on 5.Spot. Unfortunately, I can't find one 5.Spot DW small to test ride. I'd like to have more travel than what Flux offers; after all, my body is not getting any younger. 

Others, I've updated my blog post and also attached to it a spreadsheet that compares all the bikes (around my size) I've considered or am considering. If you are looking, maybe the comparisons can be of some use to you. As for me, the search continues...


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## simian23 (Aug 13, 2004)

Looking at your comparison chart, one thing stands out: the Blur LT's measurements seem to correspond much more to the XS versions of competitor bikes. The small Blur has a much shorter effective top tube and wheelbase than small versions of other bikes, while staying about the same in most other measurements.

That alone would explain the Blur's snappier feel. VPP bikes feel really stable too, and the frame is very light. The design has its flaws, however.

Oh, and on the Safire you mentioned it sticks to its line better than others, but sudden maneuvers were harder - look at the wheelbase!


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

simian23 said:


> The design has its flaws, however.


Do tell.



simian23 said:


> Oh, and on the Safire you mentioned it sticks to its line better than others, but sudden maneuvers were harder - look at the wheelbase!


That's exactly what I wrote in my blog: "_However, my friend Jeanne thought it felt slower than other bikes; in other words, it sticks to its line so well that it is not as easy to make sudden manuvers. She is a lot more experienced in riding than I am, and when I see in data sheet (bottom) that it has a longer wheel base than other bikes, it explains Jeanne's observation. I guess that could be a concern._" Right now, a "slow" bike is not a bad thing for me, but I'm afraid that after a few years, once my skills have progressed a lot, I will feel that my bike is not responsive enough. That being said, I still have not ruled out Safire.


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

mudworm said:


> That being said, I still have not ruled out Safire.


I would highly, highly recommend riding the Safire again. I've had a chance to ride my own Safire a lot more since I last posted about it "lacking" something. I've had to opportunity (read: got over my chickensh*tedness) to take it on some really rocky trails. It was wonderful. It's not fast, but it climbs like a freakin' goat. From loose creekbed rock to babyheads to limestone steps, the bike was all over it. (I was just clinging for dear life). Up, up, up the rocks it went. I will also add that I got caught in a thunderstorm once I made it to the top of the trail and the bike flew going down...again with me just holding on for dear life. It was easy to handle and just went over everything. I know it's not a bike for everyone, but man, I love mine.

I just wanted to add my recent discovery (to muddy the water more. sorry!) because frankly, it surprised the heck out of me. It's no Mojo or Yeti, but it's still a darn good little bike.

Whatever bike you do end up choosing, I hope you have as much fun on it as humanly possible.  Good luck!


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## simian23 (Aug 13, 2004)

mudworm said:


> Do tell....That's exactly what I wrote in my blog: "...when I see in data sheet (bottom) that it has a longer wheel base than other bikes, it explains Jeanne's observation...


Oh, my bad. I admit I only scanned your blog, but did not read thoroughly. You're right that slower handling bikes can be frustrating as you get into tighter, more technical trails. However they are much more stable on high speed downhills, which expert riders also appreciate. That's often why once people get to a certain level, they get two or more bikes to suit the day / terrain. Alternatively, some riders go the other way - rigid or front suspension hardtail, single speed, fixie(!), just to keep ramping up the difficulty.

As for the Blur's flaws, they have mainly to do with pedal kickback. The newer models (08 / 09) manage this better, but at the expense of some plushness. It really is a small thing, but in specific conditions it becomes a very big thing - like when you're grinding up an extremely steep hill and your back tire hits a root. If you're in a very low gear (granny +) the Blur will struggle to soak up the bump. DW link bikes do this too, but to a much small extent. The all time champ of situations like this are Specialized horst link bikes - like that Safire. But they squat quite a bit and won't feel as solid when sprinting. They won't bob (no bike with a good rear platform shock does that anymore), but they will suck up a little power. Again, it's a small thing. Every design has a compromise.

Personally, I love the Blur (I ride a 2004). Those rare occasions where feedback throws me a bit are not nearly enough to diminish the other 99% of the awesome riding experience. I don't like the feel of horst link bikes at all. I'm thinking for my next bike the DW link might be a good compromise. Pivot is definitely on the radar. I like to change things up. But the last BLT 2 I rode...yow.


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## IttyBittyBetty (Aug 11, 2005)

*Safire*

I've been demoing the FSR Expert Carbon Safire for a little bit more than a week. I've taken it out on smooth buff trails, tight twisty trails, loose rocky trails (both up and down) and technical rocky/ledgey downhills. I gotta agree it excels on the downhills - I feel super solid at high speeds and the suspension doesn't throw me around at all. It is also fantastic at climbing loose, rooty, rocky stuff. I haven't really noticed it being sluggish on tight, twisty terrain or on slower technical stuff that demands quickness in a bike.

I also demo'd an XS Pivot Mach 5 and I think I like the Safire better, especially on the climbing. However, I only rode the Pivot for one short, easy ride, so my comparison is not really fair.


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## poff (Dec 23, 2003)

Let me just reiterate that climbs at Coe are not your normal climbs (read VERY STEEP and LONG) and you usually tend to spin in the saddle. DW link is designed to maximize your in-saddle climbing by making the suspension more/less active when needed - read it is VERY efficient. You will greatly benefit from DW link suspension. Just my 2c.


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

poff, that's a heartfelt endorsement to DW link suspension design. I will definitely pay more attention to those bikes that use the technology. But, (lowering my voice) between you and me, Coe climbs do not concern me; it's those gnarly descents elsewhere that slow me down. Actually, going fast going downhill is not my highest priority either. I just want to find a bike that maximizes my comfort and confidence on long and technical rides.


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## lamdman1976 (Sep 16, 2008)

*hi mudworm*

i saw you at the trailhead demo @ sta teresa park. i wonder if you tried those 2 bikes. i was very impressed with the yeti 7- light enough to climb and soaks up the knarly stuff head on. the ibis didnt dissapoint either. it was my last demo of four bikes very forgiving for long rides. i noticed you guys brought a pivot, was that a demo?







[/URL][/TD][/TR][TR][TD]From TRAILHEAD DEMO[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/IMG]


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

mudworm said:


> I just want to find a bike that maximizes my comfort and confidence on long and technical rides.


The reason I went with the mojo, it felt the same to me at the end of the day as it did at the start.

So what does the possible bikes list look like at this point in your testing?


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

lamdman1976 said:


> i saw you at the trailhead demo @ sta teresa park. i wonder if you tried those 2 bikes. i was very impressed with the yeti 7- light enough to climb and soaks up the knarly stuff head on. the ibis didnt dissapoint either. it was my last demo of four bikes very forgiving for long rides. i noticed you guys brought a pivot, was that a demo?


Hey, thanks for that picture! It still cracks me up how it happened. It doesn't happen like that everyday -- So I pull over on a trail for some on-coming rider to get by, and he stops and pulls out a camera exclaiming "mudworm, I must take a picture!"  I rode seven bikes on Saturday and two on Sunday morning before we drove off for some rock climbing. Unfortunately, I did not get on an Ibis Mojo because they didn't have my size. I rented the Pivot from Roaring Mouse. It was a sweet bike, but it did not really stand out for me (a friend says that's a good thing, so I'm keeping it in my consideration still).



ThePinkBarron said:


> The reason I went with the mojo, it felt the same to me at the end of the day as it did at the start. So what does the possible bikes list look like at this point in your testing?


Hi ThePinkBarron, could you elaborate on what you mean by "it felt the same to me at the end of the day as it did at the start" ? I wouldn't think a bike would change on a ride. I guess I mainly wanted to learn what one should look for when he/she test rides a bike. And I'm almost too embarrassed to give you my list of the potential candidates at this point because it only reveals how indecisive I am. Oh, by the way, my list has expanded since my very first post mainly because I learned during the process that there are that many great bikes out there. This is tougher than looking for a boyfriend! Anyhow, here is my current list (subject to further expansion):

Ibis Mojo
Specialized Safire FSR Expert Carbon
Yeti 575
Santa Cruz Blur LT2
Pivot Mach 5
Turner 5.Spot DW
Trek Fuel Ex 9.8


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## critterdesign (Jan 25, 2008)

The Ibis mojo with the DW link is great, makes climbing easier. My old bike was an 05 trek EX7, The mojo is a much more efficient climber. It might be worth trying both bikes on a trainer and notice if either one of them give you more bob in the rear end, therefore less efficient. I was surprised how much bob I got out of my Trek on a trainer. Keep in mind my 05 was before Trek changed their design for the new EX models so they may be more efficient now.

The decents also seem alot easier now, things that I was a little uncomfotable on are now a breeze could be the additional travel and or Geometry.

I am 5'6" and ride a medium mojo, I felt cramped on the small although a longer stem might of helped that.

One of the most important things is how the bike fits you.

Good luck.


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

Basically what I meant was that as the day wears on I am still comfortable on the bike, there are not slightly off spots as far as comfort goes, a lot of it has to do with fit, but an example would be a stem that is only slightly too short, at the start of the day its no big deal, but at the end of the day the fatigue level certainly increases due to it. The Mojo is certainly a long ride type of bike its light, easy to handle, plenty of squish, and lets not forget that it is beautiful even after a long days worth of dirt and mud on it. 

As long as you get a DW link bike that fits, I dont think that you are going to be upset about long rides period. Pick the bike that fits like a glove.


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## Catherine (Jan 28, 2006)

I was able to buy an unassembled '08 demo Safire Expert for $2000 (the shop owner assembled it for me) and I L-O-V-E IT. I do everything better on this bike, than I did on my other bikes, and I have not fallen ONCE, since I bought it. That probably sounds silly, but I have had a lot of falls, both minor and scarey. I am thrilled to find out that buying a better bike has made such a difference in my enjoyment of riding. I didn't demo a lot of bikes. This bike was too good a deal to pass up. I may never totally appreciate the bike I have, but I enjoy riding like never before!


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

I'm not sure if you're still looking for a bike, Mudworm, but I was browsing through Ibis SL impressions and came across your post at the same time I came across a posting on CL for this frame: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/1198881443.html Seems like a decent deal with the XTR cranks, assuming that's the length you need. Not affiliated with the CL poster and have no idea if it's still available. I think you're a norcal person right? (remember reading your long description of KPD's "belmont challenge")


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

Here is an update. After having gone to many many bike demos, my list now looks like this:

Ibis Mojo
Specialized Safire FSR Expert Carbon
Yeti 575
Santa Cruz Blur LTc (current favorite)
Pivot Mach 5
Turner 5.Spot DW
Trek Fuel Ex 9.8 (have not tried)
Titus Moto lite
Giant '10 Trance X Full Carbon (have not tried)
See my post on how I came down to this list. I will be happy if I buy a Blur LTc today, but since I'm in no rush, I'll try to get on other bikes too.


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## adventuregirl (Mar 24, 2008)

I finally pulled the trigger on the Mach 5...loving this bike.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

Anyone else having bike-budget-envy? 
*sigh* Off to buy lotto tickets...


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## 246366 (Jul 3, 2004)

*Did you go last night?*

Mudworm. Did you get to ask the Specialized rep lots of questions last night at PTB? Hubby didn't get home in time to watch the kids so I couldn't make it.

My vote would be for the Blur LTc. I am sooooo loving mine  Climbs like my old Blur Classic, but goes down hills like Rach Atherton. Perfect for our trails. Wanna try it?


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

I got caught up at work yesterday and completely forgot about the event at PTB yesterday. It would have been nice to talk to the rep about bike designs (for women). Oh Dang! Oh well.

Thanks for the offer of your bike! I think I'm already pretty sold on Blur LTc now, especially after I took it for a 24-mile ride at Henry Coe. It's everything you said it was.

verslowrdr, test riding bikes is fun because you do not need to thin your wallet yet (or maybe a little for the rentals). Once you find the perfect one, then comes the bargain hunting. Earlier, a Blur LTc demo bike with nice configurations was on sale for $2900. I missed it because I didn't know it was the bike for me. I'm confident that deals like this will come up from time to time. Plus I have already started saving for my new bike. But maybe I should go buy some lotto tickets too.


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## mudworm (Feb 19, 2007)

Just wanted to bring closure to a thread I started. After a year of searching, I have found my perfect trail bike.










Here is the link to the full report (including a video).


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

That is a hot hot ride. :thumbsup: Enjoy


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