# What they don't tell you about mountain biking



## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

Hey gals and gents dropping in...

So I'm in my last year of college or a 10th year senior at 28 years old...however you want to look at Anyway, I'm doing some magazine writing and trying to come up with some different angles to take about mountain biking since I would rather write about what I enjoy...I may try to get it published.

Just wanted to see if you had any thoughts on the topic:
What they don't tell you about mountain biking...

example...I had no idea I would be so bloodied and bruised during the learning curve.

Opinions or personal experience? 

Any other angles you would rather see? Thought about a story about women in mountain biking...and why there are so few female bikers out there...but this maybe more relative depending on where you live I guess.

Oh..and if you give me a good idea, I might bug you for more information.

No worries if no one has a response and I certainly apologize for taking this minute of your life to read this thread


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## dewthedru (Nov 8, 2004)

i'd say no one told me that....


you can perform at high levels well past middle-age (i'm not middle-age yet, i've just been spanked by many of them!  )

you catch upgrade-itis more quickly than expected

a seemingly otherwise normal-looking female will suddenly be attractive when muddy and sweaty and wearing a bike kit. :thumbsup: 

i would like it so much and spend much of my time in my cube wishing i was outside riding

that along with reducing weight, it would have a calming and stress-reducing affect on me


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## ducktape (May 21, 2007)

Lol, no one told me anything, I got myself into mtn biking. I think it just finds a place in your heart. It can be enjoyed, read about, conversed about even if you live in a little remote town with no bike shop, thanks of course to new age tech (internet) and bike magazines.

Why do I wait 2 months to buy the next bike magazine which only takes an hour to read?
I sit there and stare at my bike and it's beauty. I look at any other bike even the wally ones when spotted out in public.

It is so addictive / obsessive in a lot of ways but benefits far outweigh any time and monetary cost. Excercise, fitness and good for the mind, weather it's clearing your head on a ride in the bush or a sense of accomplishment from finally making it up that hill without stopping! Even an hour out the back on the dirt riding with my young kids is enough to get the daily dose.

The middle age comment is very encouraging for me! I'm nearly 28 now and my kids are getting a bit older (3 & 4.5), so as riding has always been a passion of mine there is always hope that I may one day get to a race or become more involved in the sport from a group perspective rather than riding on my own.


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## cyberdivachick (Jan 30, 2007)

Wow, lots to say on both topics. I am 43 and didn't start riding until 2 years ago. I have been going through a nasty divorce, was bored with the gym, was against the law to beat my husband, so I decided to pound the dirt instead. Long story short, my entire life has changed for the better because of mountain biking and my new group of friends I have met by doing this wonderful extreme/social sport. 

Why are there not more women involved? I don't think they realize all the benefits socially and physically. If I had known, I would have started many years ago!

What I really needed to know? Where more pads when you first learn!


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## trailgirl (Oct 25, 2005)

cyberdivachick said:


> Why are there not more women involved? I don't think they realize all the benefits socially and physically. If I had known, I would have started many years ago!


I could not agree more. I broke up with a BF and moved to Colorado and got more involved with Mountain Biking and my social life improved dramatically.. very easy to meet the kind of guys I want to meet. I don't have a lot of girl freinds who ride, but that's OK. I sort of wish I could convince them, but it won't stop me from having fun with the guys. It's actualy a lot of fun being one of two girls in our group. I met my current BF riding and couldn't be happier. And all this is just a side benefit to the sport itself. It's like a roller coaster that you control, all the while it's making your butt look so much better! I like the way I look in spandex now and the whole sport has just made me feel good in so many ways. As a compliment to mountain biking, I also got a little bit into road biking and it has similar benefits.


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## mes2003 (Jul 29, 2005)

*what they don't tell you*

nobody told me it was the best full body workout I would ever do. The bruises and scrapes scare a lot of women away, but if they only knew what a great workout it was! Plus, it's fun!


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## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

Wow, I never thought about the social and stress relieving part of it. I mean, I felt it but I would of left it out of this article.

I also can't wait to write.."No one told me it would make my ass look this good" 

Cyberdivachick....maybe mountain biking should be a new type of therapy...I don't currently want to beat someone but it's the only time I don't think about the rough moments in my life...too tired and concentrating too hard to think about anything else. Glad to know things have changed for the better for you.

oh..and the upgraditis one...that's so true...forgot about that. I never thought I'd want to buy bike parts over clothes (unless biking clothes), now I can't help but search the internet for deals.

Also checking out other bikes...yes.. I didn't think about that one either..

and the performing at high levels even when your old haha...I had to laugh when ducktape said she's 28 with 3 kids already...I'm the same age and I can barely take care of 3 cats Kudos!!!1


You guys have my mind rolling..I'm psyched!


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## Bluebug32 (Jan 13, 2006)

I think it all depends on who you plan to pitch it to. Each magazine has a different tone. Do you have a Writer's Market? That's a good place to start. I know Bike is listed. Some obviously pay better than others, but those are going to be much harder to break into (ie: Dirt Rag vs. a Rodale pub. like Bicycling). Generally, the best way to break into these is with a front of book article, profile, etc.

But whatever you do, just keep writing and enjoying the process regardless of if it gets published or not! You've got some good ideas flowing...


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## ducktape (May 21, 2007)

xtremewriter said:


> and the performing at high levels even when your old haha...I had to laugh when ducktape said she's 28 with 3 kids already...I'm the same age and I can barely take care of 3 cats Kudos!!!1
> 
> You guys have my mind rolling..I'm psyched!


:eekster: hey wow, 2 kids (and 1 cat) and no more for me LOL

Hmm now how do I make my husband realize (without offense) that bike parts would very much be welcome over jewelery. I suppose better leave it at jewelery as he would never know what bike parts to get

Hope they don't turn MTB into therapy - it would be just an exuse to charge a fortune for something you can do for free!


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

ducktape said:


> Hmm now how do I make my husband realize (without offense) that bike parts would very much be welcome over jewelery. I suppose better leave it at jewelery as he would never know what bike parts to get


I was listening to a group of co-workers discussing birthday gifts from their spouses... "When he asked me what I wanted for my birthday, I just told him 'please no outdoor gear'. He actually got me a pair of snowshoes one year, can you believe that?"

I was thinking... what else WOULD you ask for, if not outdoor gear? Snowshoes, bike parts...? Absolutely!


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## cyberdivachick (Jan 30, 2007)

Another social aspect of riding is birthdays! Our mountain bike club does birthday rides, then a birthday lunch. Very, very fun. We get to ride and eat our cake too!!!!!!


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## Yazzle Dazzle (Jun 27, 2007)

*Angles*

I've found different angles of thinking apply between men and women when it comes to riding. For example, a guy will tell you to "just lift the front end" without explaining there is more involved such as pre-loading the front before the "lift". Or my brother once told me that doing a bunny hop was achieved by "using some invisible leg/butt muscles to lift the bike", ut: also not very helpful (I find pre-loading helps here too, as well as scooping back and up with your feet on the pedals when you hop). But guys just don't tell you the real "how" of things, they just "do" things. They are also notorious for being able to turn off that sense of self preservation and "just go for it" on a big jump for example, or one guy will tell another to "just follow me" off a big gap/drop and they do! Myself and most of the gals I ride with like working their way up in baby steps.

But all that aside, guys seem really excited to see girls out on the trails and I've had a very supportive group of guys, including my husband, to ride with over the years.

They just need to work on their communication skills!


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## Bluebug32 (Jan 13, 2006)

MtbRN said:


> I was listening to a group of co-workers discussing birthday gifts from their spouses... "When he asked me what I wanted for my birthday, I just told him 'please no outdoor gear'. He actually got me a pair of snowshoes one year, can you believe that?"
> 
> I was thinking... what else WOULD you ask for, if not outdoor gear? Snowshoes, bike parts...? Absolutely!


That's great...haha. One year I got a sweet new custom-built wheelset for my birthday from my BF. Everyone at work thought he bought me a new car when I told them that I got some "new wheels" for my birthday. This was immediately followed by a look of confusion and disappointment when they realized that I was talking about my bike.


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## ducktape (May 21, 2007)

Bluebug32 said:


> That's great...haha. One year I got a sweet new custom-built wheelset for my birthday from my BF. Everyone at work thought he bought me a new car when I told them that I got some "new wheels" for my birthday. This was immediately followed by a look of confusion and disappointment when they realized that I was talking about my bike.


 The look would have been priceless!


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Yazzle Dazzle said:


> I've found different angles of thinking apply between men and women when it comes to riding. For example, a guy will tell you to "just lift the front end" without explaining there is more involved such as pre-loading the front before the "lift". Or my brother once told me that doing a bunny hop was achieved by "using some invisible leg/butt muscles to lift the bike", ut: also not very helpful (I find pre-loading helps here too, as well as scooping back and up with your feet on the pedals when you hop). But guys just don't tell you the real "how" of things, they just "do" things. They are also notorious for being able to turn off that sense of self preservation and "just go for it" on a big jump for example, or one guy will tell another to "just follow me" off a big gap/drop and they do! Myself and most of the gals I ride with like working their way up in baby steps.
> 
> But all that aside, guys seem really excited to see girls out on the trails and I've had a very supportive group of guys, including my husband, to ride with over the years.
> 
> They just need to work on their communication skills!


Ain't that the truth. Men will always tell you what the end result should be, with little to no guidance on how to actually do it. "Just land with your wheels level to the ground" "Just jump over it" "Just wheelie-drop it" And when you do get advice on HOW to do something, it's usually over-simplified. I remember the day I first applied weighting the front end of the bike through downhill corners. I read it somewhere and VOILA - no more washing out. My husband had always said to get my weight back on descents so I didn't endo, so this weighting the front tire in a downhill switchback was a huge change from what I'd been told. So I told him what I learned and got "how did you not know that already?" Well, you told me the opposite. "Well, I assumed you knew I meant that it didn't apply for cornering - it's just basic physics."

So, what they didn't tell me is that apparently in grade school, there's a secret "Physics of Mountain Biking 101" class that I missed out on. 

Honestly, I think it's because so many guys learned really young, at an age where doing everything through trial and error didn't seem so bad. For whatever reason, a larger percentage of women get started mountain biking as adults and I'd really like to learn the concept of how to do it right instead of just throwing my carcass off a jump until I figure it out on my own. But I think the people who learned through trial and error don't know how to put it in words - they really did "just do it". We just have to search out the right people to learn from so we can work smarter, not harder.


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## Mountaingirl1961 (Nov 16, 2004)

What they didn't tell me?

That from then on out almost all my vacations (and many of my business trips) would involve mountain biking in some fashion.

That sunshine and sandstone are good for the soul.

That mountain biking would make trails that are pretty mundane as hiking trails WELL worth an afternoon's exploration.

That there are still some trails that are much better enjoyed on foot, even if they're not in wilderness areas.

That the worst part about being injured is jonesing for my bike.

That I would, indeed, be injured at some point.

That mountain biking is far, far more of a head game than a physical game.


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## xjbebop (Jul 14, 2005)

Mountaingirl1961 said:


> What they didn't tell me?
> 
> That from then on out almost all my vacations (and many of my business trips) would involve mountain biking in some fashion.
> 
> ...


those are really, really good!
I'll add that you can get so much good exercise without even realizing it, because you're too busy just having FUN!


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## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

Oh dear....now so many ideas I don't know what angle I'll go with first...those who answered "what they didn't tell me" seriously put down things that hadn't even crossed my mind. It might make a nice sidebar to a story...they're funny, so true, and most people can relate.


Also....love the conversation on how guys have a different idea of teaching. I felt like you were quoting my boyfriend...he always says....just drop in or I'll tell you if I don't think you can make it...ha! 

I am doing a boring article for Wisconsin Natural Resources magazine on beginning mountain biking, but that's just like MB 101...

that's what I like about everything you all have given me...now this is stuff to write about.

I could pursue the women angle with a sidebar...hmm....ok..so much more homework to do tonight...

Oh..and I'm also working on my website but I just overhauled...took down the old and will begin setting up the new...I'll do a blog of some rides, etc.

Going to give an honest account of all the trail around here also...they are never actually like what you read.
and of course I'll get the pics up and stuff...

So..I will post the link in the next month so everyone can visit! 

And just to add to the gift conversation...I've got king mango hubs(or hub) cuz$$$ on my christmas list!!!....some guy we ride with said to me..."You want those expensive hubs just because of the color?" HELL YES!!!

I know they're great parts too, but YES, I want the MANGO! Deal with it...just because I care about the color scheme of my bike...oh..and outfit...doesn't mean I'm not a serious rider:nono: When I am bruised and bloody and bitten up...damn it all..my bike is going to look cute!!!!


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

xtremewriter said:


> And just to add to the gift conversation...I've got king mango hubs(or hub) cuz$$$ on my christmas list!!!....some guy we ride with said to me..."You want those expensive hubs just because of the color?" HELL YES!!!
> 
> I know they're great parts too, but YES, I want the MANGO! Deal with it...just because I care about the color scheme of my bike...oh..and outfit...doesn't mean I'm not a serious rider:nono: When I am bruised and bloody and bitten up...damn it all..my bike is going to look cute!!!!


Don't let guys tell you it's just a girly thing to color coordinate or want beautifully machined and colored bike parts either. It's part of upgradeitis and is completely uncontrollable regardless of sex. I think the only real factor in controlling it is your budget. 

And CK hubs rock. Meaning, you can totally justify that purchase as a quality upgrade, and just say you picked the color you wanted because you could, but you "needed" better hubs anyway!


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## LWright (Jan 29, 2006)

That other recreational trail users who do not even know you, might hate you.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

Ahhh...Mmmmm... Bike parts. I had to convince my hubby that it was OK to get bike parts for me. He thought I would feel slighted if he didn't go out and find something outside the shop (we own a bikeshop), taking extra time to do it. After I convinced him I have been getting bikes, frames, forks, and parts and more parts. I call it jewelry for my bike.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

Fastly approaching middle age with children (boy 15 years and girl 9 years). Riding keeps me sane, happy, fit, and a great side benefit: I'm the "cool mom" that takes the kids out on "real trails.

I started them on singletrack with trail-a-bikes. So much fun, even better when they can ride their own bike. Then when the they get old enough to out-do you... Oh boy!


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

How about: It's best not to start the sport 4 weeks after c-section...

At least I still got hooked.


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## djessc800 (Mar 29, 2007)

Mountaingirl1961 said:


> That from then on out almost all my vacations (and many of my business trips) would involve mountain biking in some fashion.
> 
> That mountain biking is far, far more of a head game than a physical game.


Those are both so so true, and also no one told me how fun it would be going though mud and getting dirty:thumbsup: , my finance doesn't dig the mud so much, but I love it!!! 
Also I was never told how much I would really appreciate my full face helmet, I realized when I crashed hard on it... numerous times...but it was all for a good drop... if it wasn't for that loose dirt....


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## Bluebug32 (Jan 13, 2006)

xtremewriter said:


> I know they're great parts too, but YES, I want the MANGO! Deal with it...just because I care about the color scheme of my bike...oh..and outfit...doesn't mean I'm not a serious rider:nono: When I am bruised and bloody and bitten up...damn it all..my bike is going to look cute!!!!


Amen, sista...don't we all.

And, p.s. I just purchased a blue car (instead of the green) after taking into account that my blue bike would look oh-so-sexy on the roof rack.


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## xjbebop (Jul 14, 2005)

*Go Mango!*

Right on! Mango is the ultimate color ano in my book...


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## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

xjbebop said:


> Right on! Mango is the ultimate color ano in my book...


Yes! Loving the spacers!


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*What they don't tell you is....*

how little you know about riding a bike. Everything after that is the price you pay to learn.

For teaching mtb, appreciating motivations on one end and fears on the other is key.

Teaching girls is like preparing baklava dough: building by infinite rolling of dough paper-thin, folding, rolling paper-thin, folding, over and over and over. It is a series of fine successive approximations to avoid frightening failures which create knotty setbacks and feed apprehensions.
Teaching boys is like, "lift your wheel."

MTB is a cycling discipline best taken on after cycling skills are present.

Successful mtb born of self-teaching breeds a different kind of mountain biker than one taught and coached into the sport. For one, the supported athlete has fewer scars.

Write about what you know. If you are new to the sport the work will have the hollowness of an interview that lacks a foundation of understanding. Write about your perspective from where you stand with your experience. That will be solid.


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## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

Berkeley Mike said:


> how little you know about riding a bike. Everything after that is the price you pay to learn.
> 
> For teaching mtb, appreciating motivations on one end and fears on the other is key.
> 
> ...


Ahhh..pure poetry.



> Write about what you know. If you are new to the sport the work will have the hollowness of an interview that lacks a foundation of understanding. Write about your perspective from where you stand with your experience. That will be solid.


Thank you for the reminder, I will and do write what I know. Alas, this is also for school which has certain requirements which I can't avoid. God forbid we be allowed to write just for the sake of loving to write.

You are an amazing wordsmith....it would make my life a lot easier if you just send me something you've written


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## Bluebug32 (Jan 13, 2006)

Writing for the sake of writing sounds good. I was in a writing program that was really good in college and now I have a certain amount of freedom to write what I want on the job. It's always so hard to write when someone is telling you what to produce!


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

I was watching mtb clips on the computer with my daughter and she said "I want to do that when I grow up." and it made my heart swell with joy. I didn't expect that. Of course, I didn't know I'd ever have a kid when I started riding.


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## Yazzle Dazzle (Jun 27, 2007)

*Co$t*

When did bikes start costing thousands of dollars??!! When I was a kid, $100 was a huge amount to spend on a bike. That was the biggest shock when I got serious about biking. I'm OK with it now, since I can huck my bike off a 6' wall and live to tell about it, and rip down the trails at Whistler and be happier than anywhere else I've ever been. My bikes now-a-days are lifestyle investments.

Speaking of shocks, literally, how can one bike shock cost the same as 4 shocks for my truck??!! It still doesn't really make sense, but I'm willing to pay to play. Hi, my name is Yazzle, and I have an addiction....

More on costs; I still don't understand paying over $100 for a pair of shorts. (And why are womens' shorts cut shorter than guys'? I'd really like to protect my legs from scratches and bruises, thanks.) And have you ever compared fork oil in a bike shop to fork oil at a moto shop? Same product, different packaging.....

Ok, I'm ranting now. Time to sign off!


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

Berkeley Mike said:


> Successful mtb born of self-teaching breeds a different kind of mountain biker than one taught and coached into the sport. For one, the supported athlete has fewer scars.


Fewer scars, maybe. But I'm betting that the self-taught will have more longevity in the sport. If you can keep coming back in spite of the scrapes, bruises and setbacks, without needing someone to cajole, encourage or talk you thru' it shows a higher level of dedication (or addiction). IMHO. And I'm sure there are exceptions. But if it's something you love to do, you don't need "support" to go do it. You just do it (-:

Says the self-taught mountain biker  With some scars.


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## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

Fabulous!!!! You just gave me lead into upgraditis...I knew about wanted to upgrade, but you're right...even just buying the basics...solid basics...can be ridiculously expensive.

I think someone on the other forum gave me an idea for a blurb to add too...what they don't tell you about mountain biking...do 
NOT look at the obstacle you're trying to avoid...haha...

I learned that one too this year This weekend I had an excuse...my boyfriend stopped and said, "look at that rotten puffball mushroom". So I'm coming up a steep incline and I see him and hear him and I look at mushroom and somehow, not sure how, I fell right into it. I think I tried stopping suddenly and then I forgot that I was clipped in of course...and POOF...yellow spores everywhere...I thought I was smoking


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## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

screampint said:


> How about: It's best not to start the sport 4 weeks after c-section...
> 
> At least I still got hooked.


Now that's hardcored:eekster:


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

On the "what they didn't tell you" heading... the thing that I like about mountain biking is that nobody had to tell me _anything_. It's fine to just go out on a bike, throw it around, and learn from experience. Mountain biking isn't a sport that needs coaching or mentoring (though they certainly help) like football, golf or tennis. When I started, I had nobody to teach me, and I had a lot of fun learning about my own limits, and the limits of the bike. When I improved, it was because of myself, and when I got hurt, it was because of myself.

Now that I've been riding a while, I also appreciate learning from better riders and from more enthusiastic riders. I also like introducing beginners to the sport. But if I had been dependent on someone else for initial instruction or motivation, I probably would never have stuck with it.

/ramble


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

MtbRN said:


> Fewer scars, maybe. But I'm betting that the self-taught will have more longevity in the sport. If you can keep coming back in spite of the scrapes, bruises and setbacks, without needing someone to cajole, encourage or talk you thru' it shows a higher level of dedication (or addiction). IMHO. And I'm sure there are exceptions. But if it's something you love to do, you don't need "support" to go do it. You just do it (-:
> 
> Says the self-taught mountain biker  With some scars.


I was basically self-taught for years and have the scars to show it, but I think in reality, any of us who learned that way just would have learned faster if we had good instruction. Not that you can't have plenty of fun either way... but I think the dedication level is a separate and more innate thing. It certainly becomes apparent once you get scraped up, it might sort people out faster if you're learning with the trial and error method. And it's not like good instruction is going to prevent you from falling or hurting yourself - you've still got to learn and develop your balance and all of it takes practice.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

" But I'm betting that the self-taught will have more longevity in the sport. "

The curiosity with that model is that it was, until now, the only prevalent model availible for successful mountain bikers. If we look at how other sports evolve with trainig and support you can see how it causes it to blossom. Self-taught is like the hard-knocks school and is no guarnatee that one wil stay with thsport. In fact I'd suggest that it can weed people out. It certainly can do that with girls.

This aspect is similar to the discussions i have experienced concerning women mountain bikers in general and what characters they have which make the successful. These discussion dealt with th e issue fo growing the sport by virtue to definng such characters and using this profile t fid girls to develope. 

My work with girls shows involves a pretty wide variety of girls with a miriad motivations and a wide range of intensity and natural abilities which simply would not perist or survive if left on their own. Once trained, though, the sorts fo things which might defeat them early-on are managed with skills and a belief in themselves to overcome. That is differnt than that simple, obstinance which many of us might use to get past things.

I think that a similar event occurs when parents raise kids to mtb. The facility for a parent to understand the subtleties of a child's character and nurture their progress breeds a high level of success. I have to say that as a coach these young athletes are a godsend to any program as they become a lifing and breathing model of successful girls mtb'ers and inspire other girls to participate and persevere. 

Developing girls by coaching brings them to a level where they can particpate in a community of mtb ridrs. At this point girls have other intrinsic social skills which give them enormous effective power to succeed for themselves. In addtion, girls who might otherwise not have gottten this far without support bring their panoply of femenine qualities to the social milieu of mtb and we all benefit. The sheer volume of girls into the sport will help it evolve. If we leave it to the old model of the self-taught rider we are doomed to races with 5 women in 4 categories; been there, done that.

The self-taught mtb'er, as anyone who self teaches themselvs in any discipline, has many admirable qualities. I know a guy who taught himself to read and write. He had wonderful mind and developed his skills to a fantasctic level of sophistication. I would never use his character as a predictive models for the continued use of the written word.

Skills and disciplines can be self-taught but unless they are supported by a community one rides alone or with a few others. This may be where the "renegad" identitly finds its popularity in this sport. Just look at how bikes are named for marketing purposes. The developement, education, or coaching of riders grooms a population into a community where other natural talents can take a hold and solidfy presence in the sport.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Berkeley Mike said:


> Skills and disciplines can be self-taught but unless they are supported by a community one rides alone or with a few others. This may be where the "renegad" identitly finds its popularity in this sport. Just look at how bikes are named for marketing purposes. The developement, education, or coaching of riders grooms a population into a community where other natural talents can take a hold and solidfy presence in the sport.


The thing is, I think mountain biking is attractive to so many of us in the first place because it's a great sport to do alone or with just a few friends - it doesn't require a community. It's great to get out in the middle of nowhere and exercise and get into your own rhythm to clear your head - even if I'm riding with a few friends (or a big group of friends for that matter) - once we're riding, it's a group of individuals.

Don't get me wrong - I love racing (well, most of the time), and I always love sharing mountain bike with other people, especially other women, and teaching people to ride and getting them hooked. And I love going out for some beers afterwards! But I don't like crowds, and that's what you get at big events. Not that it isn't fun in it's own way, but it's pretty much the antithesis of the spirit of mountain biking, in my mind.

Of course, it's probably different for different people, and the big events and social aspect of riding is probably not only a good marketing technique, but a good way to pull in the social butterflies who wouldn't get lured in by the promise of solitude and "getting away from it all". And Mike, I feel like what you're doing is very much that - appealing to girls who like the community/team aspect of it and that's great that you put so much into it.

Anyway, I think many of us are attracted to learning on our own, if for no other reason than we like mountain biking because it's an individual sport, not in spite of it. Organized instruction takes away from that spirit. That said, having done some organized instruction, the improvements I've gotten from it make it very worthwhile. So while I'd encourage everyone to get some instruction when they can, I also understand why it might not be appealing and they may prefer to go about it on their own even if it means it takes longer.


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## Mountaingirl1961 (Nov 16, 2004)

connie said:


> Anyway, I think many of us are attracted to learning on our own, if for no other reason than we like mountain biking because it's an individual sport, not in spite of it. Organized instruction takes away from that spirit. That said, having done some organized instruction, the improvements I've gotten from it make it very worthwhile. So while I'd encourage everyone to get some instruction when they can, I also understand why it might not be appealing and they may prefer to go about it on their own even if it means it takes longer.


I'll be honest with you guys - my biggest challenges with riding for the past several years have been head games that came as the result of injuries that could have been avoided with some skilz development. I learned to ride almost 100% on my own and never did learn basic skills. Those holes in technique led directly to three trips over the bars, all three of which ended with broken body and months of pain, healing and rehab. And in years of self-flagillation and frustration because I was not able to get my head around trying stuff I know I could ride before the accidents.

I very recently took my first clinic and I sincerely, passionately wish I had done so years and years and years ago. Sacrificing a weekend to groupthink in the name of learning would have paid so many, many dividends in the ensuing years - and might even have saved me some exceptionally negative experiences and residual challenges.

MTB is a great sport specifically because it's not dependent on finding other people to play with. Yay! Accepting a little support, though, never goes amiss.


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## oldbroad (Mar 19, 2004)

womble said:


> On the "what they didn't tell you" heading... the thing that I like about mountain biking is that nobody had to tell me _anything_. It's fine to just go out on a bike, throw it around, and learn from experience. Mountain biking isn't a sport that needs coaching or mentoring (though they certainly help) like football, golf or tennis. When I started, I had nobody to teach me, and I had a lot of fun learning about my own limits, and the limits of the bike. When I improved, it was because of myself, and when I got hurt, it was because of myself.
> 
> Now that I've been riding a while, I also appreciate learning from better riders and from more enthusiastic riders. I also like introducing beginners to the sport. But if I had been dependent on someone else for initial instruction or motivation, I probably would never have stuck with it.
> 
> /ramble


+1 :thumbsup:


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Much of my motivation for either gender*

is to preserve safety. If adults want to go out and do what they want when they want the way they want that is up to them.(I might suggest thet this is the source of most trail-use conflicts but that is another discussion) I work with kids, in loco parentis, so I have to bring them back alive and in good shape. What I also have to do is train them so that when they go out alone, like many of you do, or with a few friends, as many of you do, they do it sensibly and are ambassadors of the sport in the very best sense.

I am impressed that the resistance I've heard from some of you is that this method takes the freedom away from the sport experience. (Please accept that this is a parapharase for the sake of discussion. If I have misinterpreted please illucidate.) And I think that for people like you this may be the case. Yet isn't as if these students are hitched together like a team of horses to a stagecoach or marching in lockstep. I still have to manage young riders with a variety of mindsets, you know. These kids are not drones. And as teens they are bridling for freedom with every breath.

I believe that the method of education and support makes greater adventure possible. It lays down good foundations, building stamina through diet and conditioning routines, group riding considerations, skills building, and accumulated experience expressed out in a canyon of climbs, decents and singletrack. By building and layering and the constant interaction and support of the group information pool they progress much more quickly and completely than self-taught riders. I am constantly amazed as I ride with different groups and individuals at the gaps in skills and experience of other riders.
The developement of all of these skills creates a much greater opportunity for the successful experience of adventure. The proof of this is when I hear that 3 of my girls did an all day 14,000 ft. downhill in Bolivia or one of my boys goes into Los Padres after his university classes to clear his head. I just heard from one of my alums that he rode in Sedona and hooked up with some other guys from a whole different part of the country and had instant riding buds. I have not doubt that while he may have been the youngest that he schooled them graciously and drank no beer.
The curiosity about mtb is that it IS a discipline that can be quantified and taught and learned. Somehow that can rub people the wrong way as if that ruins the mistique, takes away something personal, or robs people of their uniqueness. Yet few would object to a certain group of truths such as wearing a helmet or wearing armor if you crash a lot. One would be a fool to debate the lessons of gravity, physics, geology or mechanics. In the same vein how validating is it that one can show up at a trailhead just about anywhere and people ride a piece of ground the same way, use similar gear, and eat similar foods. And no one is surprised or feels less special. Why, then, should it be a mystery that one can learn this, with the same amount of wonder and self-discovery, along with others? And why would one assume that after learning those lessons that the student can't become the master, going farther and faster on their own sojourn? That is, after all, what love is about.
My charge is to create mountain bikers who are sane, safe, powerful, in control, skilled, and gracious trail users. The challenge is defined when you first see the parent's sense of apprehension about their daughter or son's desire to be a mountain biker. The fear, the bad PR, the expense in body and machinery is written clearly on their faces. Yet after a few seasons these kids are racing at 20-40 mph elbow to elbow. I would be lying if I said I didn't worry about them when they race or even when I ride with them 2-3 times per week; I add grey hairs during each competition and don't rest until we are all back at our staging area after a workout. Yet I have parents tell me that when Kelly or Donny say "mom I'm going out into the canyon. I'll be home for dinner," they don't worry so much anymore.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Mountaingirl1961 said:


> I'll be honest with you guys - my biggest challenges with riding for the past several years have been head games that came as the result of injuries that could have been avoided with some skilz development. I learned to ride almost 100% on my own and never did learn basic skills. Those holes in technique led directly to three trips over the bars, all three of which ended with broken body and months of pain, healing and rehab. And in years of self-flagillation and frustration because I was not able to get my head around trying stuff I know I could ride before the accidents.
> 
> I very recently took my first clinic and I sincerely, passionately wish I had done so years and years and years ago. Sacrificing a weekend to groupthink in the name of learning would have paid so many, many dividends in the ensuing years - and might even have saved me some exceptionally negative experiences and residual challenges.
> 
> MTB is a great sport specifically because it's not dependent on finding other people to play with. Yay! Accepting a little support, though, never goes amiss.


Same here. I know that since the vast majority of my friends are individual sports people (skiers and bikers), it's almost like there's a stigma to seeking help. "Don't take lessons, start on a hardtail and make yourself learn the hard way like I did." Like if you're trying to learn without the requisite bloodshed and pain, you're cheating.

And most people will give you that "it's only bumps and bruises" thing and tell you to quit being a wuss and just go for it. The thing is, it can obviously be a lot more than bumps and bruises. I've required surgery and 6 months of rehab on four occasions from sports injuries. It's like I literally needed some common sense beaten in to me to tell me I needed to find the smarter way to learn, not just keep pushing myself harder. And I have, mind you.  I ride and ski better than before, and I fall MUCH less, and I spend time working on fundamental skills and balance nowadays - which makes a huge difference.

It's hard to find that balance between safety and progression though. No matter how good or careful you are, you're not going to be able to avoid all falls. There will always be some risk. But there are better approaches than to just keep going for it and wrecking your guts out over and over again too. Maybe I'm just becoming a wuss in my "old" age (of 33), but I like to think I'm being more effective. I think I improved more this year because while I backed off of some things, I stayed healthier and was able to ride more and work on skills, not rehab.

So back on topic - what they didn't tell me is that you don't have to follow the 19 year old male tactic of "all balls and no brains" to become a better rider. And second - recovering from injury, if nothing else, gives you a chance to go back to the basics and learn more so you can come out of it a better rider.


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

connie said:


> Anyway, I think many of us are attracted to learning on our own, if for no other reason than we like mountain biking because it's an individual sport, not in spite of it. Organized instruction takes away from that spirit. So while I'd encourage everyone to get some instruction when they can, I also understand why it might not be appealing and they may prefer to go about it on their own even if it means it takes longer.


Hah! You may have hit on something there, Connie. It's possible that, for me, trying to learn in a group environment would have been the very wrongest thing to do. I tried to learn to golf from an ex-boyfriend who was a very good golfer. Though he is patient and a good teacher, I found it incredibly frustrating to be out on the course with him. He would make it look so easy, and I would be struggling so badly just to get the d*mn ball to go the right direction... it is a hard sport to learn and I was constantly comparing how bad I was to how good he was. It totally turned me off the whole activity.

By contrast, I pretty much mountain biked solo for the first 3 years I rode. By the time I met up with a group to ride with, I was actually pretty good. So I was not constantly comparing myself with people who were much, much more skilled than I, and getting frustrated about my lack of ability.

I am one of those people who wants to be good at something right away, I guess:blush:

On the other hand, I took lessons to learn to ski. Though I practiced tons on my own before I got good at it. Come to think of it, I skiied a lot solo that first year, too...


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

*Resistance?*

I don't think that anyone on this thread has been resistant to the idea of organisation or formal teaching. It is simply that some people prefer the individual route, and that it was appropriate for their own circumstances. I don't think that anyone is trying to claim that one is more valid than the other.

I also suspect that most people here are posting from the perspective of adults, rather than children (or even teenagers), so we're taking assuming a certain amount of sanity, responsibility and probably experience with the outdoors as a base.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*"Assuming a certain amount of*

sanity, responsibility and probably experience" is assuming a great deal. This is hardly the sole provence of adults. Yet if we do assume that then it strengthens my point again. The sample is skewed to include a limited part of the population. whichyou have defined, which results in the present population of mtb women. As I said, 5 ladies in 4 categories at a race; been there, done that.

With my model sanity and responsibility help (teens have this or it can be developed around a sport like mtb) but outdoor experience "as a base" is not necessary. Nor are new riders pressed to have to put up with really good riders or faced with tasks much beyond their means.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

I meant the 'sanity, responsibility' line with a certain degree of tongue-in-cheek humour.

Mike, people have simply been posting what they have been happy with, or what they would have preferred with the benefit of hindsight. _I don't think that anyone is actually arguing with you_. You don't have to keep justifying one approach.


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

womble said:


> _I don't think that anyone is actually arguing with you_.


Certainly I am not. I have taken a couple of one-day womens clinics in the past two years. One really taught me a lot (and it did take more teaching than "lift your wheel" for me to learn how to wheelie, but I'm sure glad I learned), the other basically taught me that I need to pick my clinics more carefully.

As for the longevity in the sport, it is true that there has not been a generation of riders that were coached from the beginning. Until recently, "seat of the pants" learning was the only model. So it will be interesting to see how that turns out. I know that, for myself, something that I am "intrinsicly" self-motivated to take up tends to keep me involved longer than something I took up for "extrinsic" reasons.

What they didn't tell me about mountain biking is that it would be so darn much fun! Truly the most fun activity I have ever done.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

womble said:


> I meant the 'sanity, responsibility' line with a certain degree of tongue-in-cheek humour.
> 
> Mike, people have simply been posting what they have been happy with, or what they would have preferred with the benefit of hindsight. _I don't think that anyone is actually arguing with you_. You don't have to keep justifying one approach.


The great thing about this forum is that it inspires an assessment of the work I do. Each participant may touch upon and idea that brings out different ways of understanding what I do. That a forum exists for Women is exceedingly fertile ground and is a resource for the NorCal High School Racing League's emphisis on locating, recruiting, developing and retaining girls in our program.

I can see how my responses can appear as "justifications." That is not their purpose. They are more like exercises from points of departure provided by posters here which bring me new understanding. I think that, in this case, what I am understanding more and more is how different our girls seem to be from the women who post here. I find that very encouraging because it says to me that we may be working with a diffeerent subset of young women and that will lead to a bigger and broader population of women in our sport. That is huge.

In some sense you guys are pioneers. Yeah. That's it. Pioneers. Trail-blazers even. All those who come after you will probably be quite different characters in that they don't need to blaze a trail in the way you have. Their frontier may be to prove that they can succeed as riders, racers, adventurers, and life-long cyclists in the face of a community who has a different set of values. I have no doubt about their ultimate success for themselves, that is guarnateed. Success in the context of the race course or epic rides as they age I see as very possible but they will always be mountain bikers.

One of my girls just went of to UCLA. The won't ride for the team there but will ride with friends. The last time I saw her I told her to be careful of new riders or people with whom you have not ridden as what she is capable of one a bike, what is now second nature to her, is far beyond what most people can do safely. And be especially careful of boys of unknown skill; they don't know any better and can get themselves into trouble trying to ride with you. She beamed, as flattered but I really meant it as a caution.

She never would have done this on her own. Of the 23 girls I have worked with closelyin the last 5 seasons only 1, possibly two would have done it on their own. So, what did they not tell me about mtb? That the women who ride today and the women riders of tomorrow are not necessarily cut from the same cloth.


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## Mountaingirl1961 (Nov 16, 2004)

MtbRN said:


> I tried to learn to golf from an ex-boyfriend who was a very good golfer. Though he is patient and a good teacher, I found it incredibly frustrating to be out on the course with him. He would make it look so easy, and I would be struggling so badly just to get the d*mn ball to go the right direction... it is a hard sport to learn and I was constantly comparing how bad I was to how good he was. It totally turned me off the whole activity.


There's a reason there are professional instructors out there. Trying to learn anything from a friend or (especially) significant other is almost always bad news, in my experience. Professionals know how to break skills down into learnable chunks so that the students working on those skills have a better outcome. Just watching somebody else do something at a high level doesn't really shed light on the mystery of how it's done.

I'm a big believer in ski lessons, for example, and the best thing the old boyfriend who introduced me to skiing ever did was dump me in a lesson my first day on snow. C-ya later, he sez. I still take a lesson or two annually as a tune-up, and may well sign up for Epicski again this year.

Can't for the life of me figure out why I never saw that re: MTB before. D'oh!

I'm an advanced skier now, a low-level intermediate on MTB, and have been riding for much longer than I have skiing. Gee, how tough can it be to see the correlation?

So - what they never told me? TAKE FRICKIN' LESSONS. And then get out there on your own and practice, practice, practice!!!


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## TVC15 (Jun 6, 2004)

xtremewriter said:


> What they don't tell you about mountain biking...
> 
> Opinions or personal experience?


That it's every bit as much of a mental challenge as it is a physical one. After the newbie phase, even more of one.

Also, that walking techy sections that intimidate you easily becomes a simple but very bad habit, that should be consistently broken. In this situation, remind yourself to grow a pair and ride it anyway. Trust me, it really helps.


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## athalliah (Dec 9, 2005)

If you have a serious accident you might become very afraid of your bike.


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## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

TVC15 said:


> That it's every bit as much of a mental challenge as it is a physical one. After the newbie phase, even more of one.
> 
> Also, that walking techy sections that intimidate you easily becomes a simple but very bad habit, that should be consistently broken. In this situation, remind yourself to grow a pair and ride it anyway. Trust me, it really helps.


Yup, do that. Damn...:madman:

Good one!


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## TVC15 (Jun 6, 2004)

xtremewriter said:


> Good one!


Glad it helps.

Today I literally had to back up _three_ times and reapproach a section before I dropped it, using that very effective mantra of course, and after I did it, I was like, "What the hell was I so worried about?!" It's so weird, after committing to a section just how often you're surprised at how easy it was to clean. Of course, there are always the times you pay the price of admission ... but, still, the overriding lesson here is that walking stuff quickly becomes a bad habit. Best to break it, early and often.



Oh yeah, one more thing nobody told me about mountain biking: On descents, lipgloss contracts gnats. Blech.


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## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

Hahaha...I just had to share a few of these from a friend here that I just talked too....

When you tell someone you went biking and they ask “how far?” you just smile as they say, “5 miles is nothing, even I can do that!!”

Trying to get your urine clear takes more than one day

When someone makes the statement “it’s like riding a bike, once you learn how you never forget” you know they’ve never rolled over a log pile, tried bunny hopping a tree or took a downhill with their back tire rubbing a hole in their biking shorts.

Talking about shorts, thinking that only sissies wear padded ones or that vasaline sloshed in certain areas is gross.

Loving this story. You guys have all helped so much...it's going to be hilarious...I mean funny in a way that every mountain biker can relate and laugh about.

Oh..and TVC15..the other day I backed up 11 times to a drop...didn't make it...totally understand that one!!!


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## mntnbkrld (Oct 6, 2007)

Hi, 
New to all of this and have been learning alot just by listening in. Just bought my 1st bike, a specialized myka FSR. I will be a self taught and am coming off of back surgery. Someone made a comment about lots of padding...... How about a little advise so I don't go into this totally blind. Would apprecite all advice.

Thanks


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## grungePoodle (Jul 3, 2007)

Screw flowers, get me King hubs for my anniversary.

Nothing like dropping 20-ish year old guys on a ride when I am 40 (mom of two) and riding a singlespeed.


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## xtremewriter (May 21, 2007)

grungePoodle said:


> Screw flowers, get me King hubs for my anniversary.
> 
> Nothing like dropping 20-ish year old guys on a ride when I am 40 (mom of two) and riding a singlespeed.


haha..sometimes I even feel bad for the guys. I messed with a couple riders a few weekends back. I passed them and I could hear them working so so hard to catch up with me. Well, huge obstacle that I didn't clear and they passed me on it...but then I caught back up to them and they were just struggling...dabbing feet, huffing and puffing. Then they got a straight away and just killed:smallviolin: it like I was a freaken mountain lion. Dudes, not that bad. And I wouldn't have thought anything of passing the boys if they wouldn't of been so crazy about it. They wouldn't even acknowledge me with I passed them. I said hey BOTH times and got NO response. They had to of been early early 20's and cocky as hell. Sorry boys!


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Yazzle Dazzle said:


> When did bikes start costing thousands of dollars??!! When I was a kid, $100 was a huge amount to spend on a bike. That was the biggest shock when I got serious about biking. I'm OK with it now, since I can huck my bike off a 6' wall and live to tell about it, and rip down the trails at Whistler and be happier than anywhere else I've ever been. My bikes now-a-days are lifestyle investments.
> 
> Speaking of shocks, literally, how can one bike shock cost the same as 4 shocks for my truck??!! It still doesn't really make sense, but I'm willing to pay to play. Hi, my name is Yazzle, and I have an addiction....
> 
> ...


On cost you need to compare the bike/parts with a similar performance/quality level of the other thing (truck, motorcyle, car...). I keep seeing people asking how a bicycle tire can cost more than tires for their car. But that $45-60 mtb tire is on a level with a $200-300 car/truck tire. A $40 car tire is more comparable to a $8-10 bike tire.

Likewise the $100 bicycle is like a $7000 Kia and the $3000 bike a $50,000 Porsche.


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

shiggy said:


> Likewise the $100 bicycle is like a $7000 Kia and the $3000 bike a $50,000 Porsche.


My $8,000 dollar Hyundai works a lot better than a $120 bike does. Maybe if I slammed my car over log piles every time I went for a drive that would be different...


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## teef (May 23, 2007)

"what no one told me about mountain biking" - the unbelievable adrenaline rush from riding up a mountain, seeing the canyon valley below (when stopped of course;-) ), and flying down the mountain with just me, the BF, and new riding friends...seeing my BF impressed and cheering me on saying, "go sweetie!"...girls and guys on the trails saying, "awesome," and me thinking AWESOME GIRL!...do it again, again, again!...not letting a dumb, big riding accident stop me from this FUN!...no one told me that riding a bike at 31 could still be so much fun!...oh, passing guys going up a hill is part of the fun too


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