# Shimano M5100 11-51 11 speed Cassette



## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

I was able to finally get my hands on one of these cassettes. As you can see it has very even cog spacing unlike the Shimano 11-46 cassette.










I am using a SLX M7100 12 speed derailleur and the Shimano HG601 chain with a XT 11 speed shifter on my Trek Stache.










I have about 100 miles on it now and I am very happy with it. It has typical great Shimano shift quality up and down the cogs. I can back pedal 12-13 full turns before the chain drops down when I'm on the 51t cog. chainstays are set at 415mm and 30t chainring for reference.

I had originally planned on going to 12 speed because I needed a little more range. The 46t I was using before just wouldn't cut it when I got tired. I had already moved on to the SLX M7100 RD in anticipation of doing the upgade to 12 speed. When Shimano announced that they were coming out with this I was excited to say the least. Now I wouldn't have to worry about freehub compatibility or chainring compatibility or buying a 12 speed shifter. I could get the range that I was after with just the cassette and a new chain. It uses the standard Shimano HG freehub.

Just to be clear though if you have a M7000 or M8000 rear derailleur it won't work. It maxes out at 46t. If you want to upgrade your existing Shimano 11 speed you will need a new derailleur. You can use either the new M5100 rear derailleurs or one of the SLX, XT or XTR 12 speed derailleurs since they use the same pull ratios.

I know that SunRace has an 11-50 11 speed cassette but I have been leery of those after breaking my SunRace 11-46 cassette. The rivets snapped on it after about six months of use.

If anyone has any questions please fire away.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Two.

Can i use a roadlink or similar on my 46T XT derailleur? Second, what pedals are those?


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Hopefully I didn't just miss it, but did you weigh it?

Seems like an ideal cassette otherwise. Hopefully it shifts as well as the new 12 speed too.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Whiterabbitt said:


> Two.
> 
> Can i use a roadlink or similar on my 46T XT derailleur? Second, what pedals are those?


1. I don't know. I have never used a road link or goat link. I've read where others have tried using them with the Sunrace 11-50 cassette with mixed results. Personally I didn't want to try it. I suppose that you could try it and if it didn't work then bite the bullet and get one of the above mentioned derailleurs. My SLX 7100 derailleur shifts like butter.

2. They are Crank Brothers Stamp 3 size large. I absolutely love them.
I have size 13 feet and really appreciate the large platform. I have about 3000 miles on them.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

ungod said:


> Hopefully I didn't just miss it, but did you weigh it?
> 
> Seems like an ideal cassette otherwise. Hopefully it shifts as well as the new 12 speed too.


I did not weigh it as I don't have a digital kitchen scale. It is only HG not HG+ so the shifting isn't as smooth as the Shimano 12 speed system. It does shift way better than the Sunrace 11-46 cassette that I had. If you look closely at the pictures you can see there are a lot of shift ramps om it.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

huckleberry hound said:


> It is only HG not HG+ so the shifting isn't as smooth as the Shimano 12 speed system.


You can see the opposing shift ramps on the largest three cogs. It is HG+.


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## Rotund (Jun 24, 2012)

Great post, thanks. 

This is really interesting. I’m running XT M8000 2x11 right now, and debating either a new 1x12. XT bike (there are almost none) or somehow change the drivetrain on my existing bike. 

So, I’d need cassette, rear mech but then what to do with my 2x chain set/bb? I’d also be looking for a 30, may be 32 at a push up front. 

Any tips/experiences would be very useful.

Chris


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Rotund said:


> Great post, thanks.
> 
> This is really interesting. I'm running XT M8000 2x11 right now, and debating either a new 1x12. XT bike (there are almost none) or somehow change the drivetrain on my existing bike.
> 
> ...


Yes you would need a Narrow/Wide chainring. What crankset are you currently using? If it is a M8000 crankset it will be simple to swap out the chainring to either a M7000 or M8000 NW chainring. Either one will work. I'm using a 30t chainring but I also have bad knees. You may be able to push a 32t depending on your trails.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

uzurpator said:


> You can see the opposing shift ramps on the largest three cogs. It is HG+.


According to Shimano's website it is just HG. https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/deore-m5100/CS-M5100-11.html


Ride anywhere with smooth and precise HG shifting
11-speed cassette sprocket
11-51T wide gear range
11-42T close gear step


TECHNOLOGIES


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Regarding derailleurs, I've tried all of the 11-speed modifications. The only one that works is the Garbaruk, which costs more than a new derailleur. The goat link doesn't work.

The best option is to run a 12-speed SLX ($75) with an 11-speed shifter, or buy the new Deore 11-speed RD that's designed for the 51t cassette ($45ish).


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Sweet. I'm currently running 11spd XT shifter with an SLX m7100 and an 11spd Sunrace 11-50 cassette. I'm not happy with the slow shifting of the Sunrace in the middle gears and have been eyeing this new 11-51 cassette. Being only $98 vs Sunrace $89, I should have just gotten the M5100 :/
Gonna order it today.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

sunrace sucks I have the 11-50 11s on a m8000 and the goatlink made it worse

I got it to shift through all gears, but trick was to lower the b adjustment as low as you can while still shifting to 50t cog 

also using a sram gx 12s chain, which only helped a hair at best, was not a game changer.

the m7100 works great for 11s set ups


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Bummer. sounds like >46T is not for me, since I made my derailleur choice (XT) and I'm not changing that now.

Still OK tho, I can climb no issue with a 30T, and "ok" with a 34. I just figured going up to a 50+ would let me run the 34 for good climbing and get back some more top end ratio in the higher gears 

NBD tho, not worth spending over $100 to get that.

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Rotund said:


> Great post, thanks.
> 
> This is really interesting. I'm running XT M8000 2x11 right now, and debating either a new 1x12. XT bike (there are almost none) or somehow change the drivetrain on my existing bike.
> 
> ...





huckleberry hound said:


> Yes you would need a Narrow/Wide chainring. What crankset are you currently using? If it is a M8000 crankset it will be simple to swap out the chainring to either a M7000 or M8000 NW chainring. Either one will work. I'm using a 30t chainring but I also have bad knees. You may be able to push a 32t depending on your trails.


+1

Chris, I think all you have to do is remove the FD, replace the big ring with a N/W. If your 11spd cassette is wide. Is it? Otherwise, add that in too. Then chain if you want for good measure.

What's your cassette now? if it's X-46, GTG. if X-42, "maybe". I could climb great with an 11-42 and a 28T chainring. With a 30T chainring and 11-42 cassette, I'm the same as my 34T chainring and 11-46 cassette. Which is "OK". I can climb, just slowly winching myself up the mountain.

Just something to consider if you want to go "cheap". You set it all up, THEN worry about chainline (that is my opinion)

--------

Of course, if you want to spend money, no reason not to wipe it all out and go 12 speed with new everything. Life is good


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

for perspective:

Looking at 28T + 11-42 in the back:
Climb ratio: .66
High ratio: 2.55

-----------

Consider a common setup, 32T chainring + 11-50:
Low: .64
High: 2.9

The low is insanely low. Maybe 34 is better if you are a strong rider:
Low: .68
High: 3.09

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So, even with a "big" 34T chainring, your high gear is 3.09 compared to 2.55 with a 28

BUT, a 28-11 gear ratio is the SAME as 34-13. So you lose exactly one gear on a 28/11-42 drive train. It would be like having a 1-10 with tighter ratios (to give you 11 choices). Which is probably NBD.

If your cassette is not 42, prolly need an upgrade anyways


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## Tim22 (Sep 11, 2010)

For what it's worth, I run a Shimano M-6000 GS with a Sunrace 11-50 and it's worked flawlessly for 6-8 mo. Perfect shifting. No Goatlink.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

huckleberry hound said:


> According to Shimano's website it is just HG. https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/deore-m5100/CS-M5100-11.html


Yes. And? 11-42 is just HG. 11-51 has the opposing shift gates - which is what HG+ is all about, so it is, effectively HG+.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Tim22 said:


> For what it's worth, I run a Shimano M-6000 GS with a Sunrace 11-50 and it's worked flawlessly for 6-8 mo. Perfect shifting. No Goatlink.


Is that a long cage? I picked medium cage.


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## Tim22 (Sep 11, 2010)

GS= Med SGS=Long. Good luck


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

D’oh! Reading comprehension > me for today.

I knew that. Just needed to add literacy to the mix.

Thanks


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## dave_rh (Jul 28, 2014)

huckleberry hound said:


> According to Shimano's website it is just HG. https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/deore-m5100/CS-M5100-11.html
> 
> 
> Ride anywhere with smooth and precise HG shifting
> ...



This 11-51 cassette is a bit of a mystery. the 8 biggest cogs are identical ratios as the 12 speed cassettes.

Deore 11 Speed: 11-13-15-*18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51*T
SLX 12 speed: 10-12-14-16-*18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51*T

I suspect that Shimano has used the same cogs in both cassettes and just changed the spider and the first 3 cogs for the 11 speed cassette.

If that is the case. It will probably have HG+ functionality in those 8 cogs at least


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

You may both be right but I believe that you would need to add the 12-speed chain with extended plates for the full HG+ benefits. I have the M7100 & M5100 and they do appear identical in the shift ramps for the largest cogs at the minimum. I have not installed the M5100 yet but I'd probably try the Deore 12S chain when I do.


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## zucchini (Aug 2, 2020)

Aresab said:


> You may both be right but I believe that you would need to add the 12-speed chain with extended plates for the full HG+ benefits. I have the M7100 & M5100 and they do appear identical in the shift ramps for the largest cogs at the minimum. I have not installed the M5100 yet but I'd probably try the Deore 12S chain when I do.


I'd be very interested in this possibility - I've got a 2x10 that I want to convert to 1x11 with the M5100 cassette. I have an HG freehub and direct mount hanger, so going 12s would necessitate changing wheels and finding a derailleur hanger.

Do you think this could work with a 12s crankset, 12s chain, but using the 11s M5100 derailleur and 11s 11-51 cassette? If that could do the trick and get the full benefits of HG+, I'd save hundreds of dollars and then only miss out on the 10t cog.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Timely thread. Yesterday and today i was riding my 11-46 11-speed and was in the 46T a lot and wondered how i get a larger cog. I'm OK with larger gaps, so staying with 11-speed seems OK. Especially since I have the XT-shifter already. 

some questions:
- did you end up using a 12-speed chain, or does an 11-speed chain in the 7100-RD? 
- if 12-speed chain, did you use the shimano chain? If so, did you have problems with their link or do you have a shimano-rated chainring so the quick-link works? 
- what would be the disadvantage of using the cheaper RD-M5100-SGS over the M7100? Would the 5100 also work with 12-speed shifter for future upgrades? My theory is that the 12-speed RD seem to work with 11-speed RD, it should work the other way around as well. 
- So what is the conclusion on if that 5100 cassette is HG+, or not? and if so, i assume it requires the HG+ shimano chain to work as designed?


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

It uses standard 11 speed chain or your choice. I'm using the Shimano HG601 chain. 

There are no big gaps on it like you have with the XT or SLX 11-46 cassettes with the 9 tooth gap or even Sram's Eagle 12 speed cassettes which have a 10 or even now 12 tooth gap between first and second. These cogs are spaced really well.

As far as HG+ goes this cassette seams to have some of the features of HG+ but Shimano is calling it HG. It would be interesting to see if using a Shimano 12 speed chainring and chain would do as far as performance improvements. Maybe when I wear out my chainring I'll put a M6100 chainring, which has the same bolt pattern on my M7000 crank and use a Shimano 12 speed chain.

The beauty of it is though those parts aren't necessary. All you need if you already have an 11 speed is just a compatible derailleur which is the M5100,6100,7100,8100 or 9100(long cage) and this cassette which shifts better than anything I've had before. I have not tried the Shimano 12 speed system so I can't compare it to that.


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## mtnbiker4life (Sep 19, 2005)

*Weight*



ungod said:


> Hopefully I didn't just miss it, but did you weigh it?
> 
> Seems like an ideal cassette otherwise. Hopefully it shifts as well as the new 12 speed too.


It weighs in the order of 650 grams.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Looks to weigh 627g.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

If I toast my 11-50 sunrace, now I know which direction to go. Although, I have to say, I've really never had any of the issues with Sunrace I'm seeing here, and I've used three of their cassettes over the last four or five years. 

FWIW, my GS cage 11 speed SLX derailleur (M7000 I think) works excellently with the 11-50 cassette. I'm running a KMC chain right now. It took me a couple of attempts to get the B-tension screw just right, but it's not at an extreme or anything. Works great. 

Although, I'll repeat what I just said though, when the time comes I'll definitely be looking to do the 11-51 with a 12 speed derailleur. The spacing is a big improvement over going from a 42 to a 50. Good post!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I just received two of these Shimano super wide range 11spd cassettes; eager to give these things a try. It appears to me that all cogs are steel, making a heavy cassette but perhaps the last one I’ll ever have to buy. 

Meanwhile I’ve been running a Sunrace 11-50t 11spd cassette (with steel + aluminum cogs) on my hardtail for a while and haven’t suffered any problems (neither shifting nor longevity) but my expectations are even higher for Shimano’s new offering. I’ll install one of these new cassettes on my other (FS) bike this weekend and see how things go. The 11-50t Sunrace will remain on the hardtail.

I have two wheelsets for the FS bike these cassettes will be used on which is why I bought two cassettes — one for each rear wheel. Until now I’ve been running 11-46t 11spd cassettes on this bike. My motivation for getting the 51t cassettes isn’t to get a lower gear — at the same time I install these garbage-can-lid-sized cassettes, I’ll also install a larger chainring. Not seeking a lower low gear, I’m actually pursuing a higher high gear. IMO the 11 speed’s greatest deficiency is its 11t small cog. The 10t cog is the only — and I mean only — reason I wish I had a 12 speed drivetrain. I spin my 11t cog out on gradual downhill flow sections. This new cassette should get me a half step closer to the benefits of a 10t cog.
=sParty


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

How many of the cogs are on a spider? Worried about biting into the HG hub.
the SLX cassettes only have the 3 or 4 largest cog on a spider, the XT have 6 or even 7 largest cogs on 2 spiders. The Shimano website isn't really telling.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)




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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

HerrKaLeu said:


> How many of the cogs are on a spider? Worried about biting into the HG hub.
> the SLX cassettes only have the 3 or 4 largest cog on a spider, the XT have 6 or even 7 largest cogs on 2 spiders. The Shimano website isn't really telling.


Five are on a spider, six are loose.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I considered going from a 28t chainring to a 30t but I anticipate some upcoming rides with ridiculous gains so I left the 28t ring on for now. Fortunately rings are easy to change on my RF cranks and I've got steel 30t in the parts bin awaiting installation.

Now I've just got to hit the trails to see how she shifts in the wild. Probably tomorrow. 
=sParty

P. S. How do I turn off the duplicate thumbnail photos?


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

This might be a rudimentary question, but its relevant, and I can't seem to find the answer with some googling.

I'm running NX 11 speed on my bike. The cassette is starting to get a bit worn, and I'm considering going to Deore 11 speed (M5100) when I replace it.

I know I'll need a new rear deraileur, and cassette if I do that... but will I also need a new shifter (currently a GX 11 speed shifter)? And if I did, do I go with a 11speed chain? Or the 12 speed chain?

Might also go with the Sunrace 46-11, as it also gets me some more range, but without the cost of the rear deraileur. But I like the idea of wider range, and shimano shifting.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

I just went through this myself, I decided on a garbaruk 11sp 10-50 for the weight savings on a gravel bike.

I'm trying something a little different though. According to shimanos tech docs the m5100 derailleur is compatible with m7000/8000/9000 11sp shifters. Would this not imply the pull ratio is the same as the old 11sp stuff?

I'm actually mating an m5100 derailleur to a grx brifter with a tanpan and using giving me a 42t ring with a 10-50 range ... More range than the 2x setup currently on the bike. 

Assuming the pull ratios are the same as the old 11sp it should work. Using an m5100 cassette could give the gravel crowd a reasonably affordable way to get massive range on gravel setups.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

ocnLogan said:


> This might be a rudimentary question, but its relevant, and I can't seem to find the answer with some googling.
> 
> I'm running NX 11 speed on my bike. The cassette is starting to get a bit worn, and I'm considering going to Deore 11 speed (M5100) when I replace it.
> 
> ...


You will meed to change to a Shimano 11 speed shifter. Sram shifters pull a different amount of cable with each shift than Shimanos do. You will also need to use your 11 speed chain of choice.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Replaced my Sunrace 11-50 with this. Took it out for a few miles and it shifts quieter and better than the Sunrace. 

The larger cogs have the HG+ shift ramps making the up and down shifts smooth. Shifting in the smaller cogs are more abrupt and you can hear and feel it clunk into place. I'm running a PC-X1 11spd chain.


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

I think I may do something similar for my new HT. I am not looking to spend tons of money on it (cheapish bike) but I HATE SX eagle and I hate that a half a turn backwards and the chain drops down.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

interesting, is it just me or did they vanish from the JensenUSA website?

Also, anyone ever try this option?

https://www.amazon.com/Relic-bicycl...ld=1&keywords=relic+52t&qid=1597078297&sr=8-6

Looks to be another way to convert your existing cassette to 50+ ?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Whiterabbitt said:


> interesting, is it just me or did they vanish from the JensenUSA website?
> 
> Also, anyone ever try this option?
> 
> ...


I used add-on cogs when they first came out, before purpose built truly wide range cassettes appeared. My experience: the add-on cogs cost as much the whole full range cassettes but don't shift as well. YMMV.
=sParty


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Whiterabbitt said:


> interesting, is it just me or did they vanish from the JensenUSA website?


Universal Cycles has them in-stock.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=102775


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

^^^ photo from today's ride w/M5100 cassette on board.

The M5100 works great. On today's ride I specifically sought out steep grades where there and then I tried shifting under extreme load. The drivetrain never complained. Happy about this.

It's probably just new bike parts euphoria but one thing I was aware of during my ride is that it seemed that adjacent gear ratios felt better with this big cassette. On my old 11-46t cassette, I often double shifted whenever changing gears. With this one, it seemed like more often than not, I only shifted one gear at a time.

Here are the individual cog tooth progressions for my old XT 11-46t cassette and this new M5100 11-51t:

11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-46
11-13-15-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51

Personally I'm stoked with the new M5100.
=sParty


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

Well I was going to mix and match a 51T setup around that deore cassette and ended up saying screw it and got a 11-46T XT setup off eBay. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Well, you guys got me.

Two separate reports of MTBR members with m8000 SG RD's that are running 50T cassettes without maxing out the b-screw. I ordered it. We'll see if I can be #3. I spun out my 30-11 gear on a back-to-the-car fire road last weekend and I want my 34T chainring back on.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Came in, installed it. It works, even with the M8000. The tuning range is very narrow, but it’s tuned and shifts fine. I haven’t gone on a ride yet, so might need more tuning when I’m loading it as opposed to light riding.

One thing I noticed is the gaps between teeth seem rather large. The chain does not sit cleanly in the large cog like I would expect. Nothing slips or grinds, but an observation nonetheless.

Other than the slightly goofy look on a 26” wheel, will be fun to try it out.


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

Have you ever see the gap between the biggest cog and the next cog on a XT 11 speed 46T cassette, it’s crazy. 

Glad to hear it’s working. I find Shimano very easy to work with. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Thats what I upgraded from 

(Or maybe that was SLX...)


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

But what I meant was the chain wrapping around the 51T gear. The chain doesnt sit tight in the teeth, sections are loose and floppy.

Doesnt seem to affect riding, but odd to see.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Whiterabbitt said:


> But what I meant was the chain wrapping around the 51T gear. The chain doesnt sit tight in the teeth, sections are loose and floppy.
> 
> Doesnt seem to affect riding, but odd to see.


I noticed the same thing. It's REALLY significant - so much so that I measured my chain in disbelief. The measurement showed nearly new. Still doubtful, I got a new chain out of the box to compare my old & new chain side-by-side because I couldn't believe my measurement could possibly be correct.

It was.

I can lift the chain quite a ways off the back of the 51t cog between top & bottom contact points. But whatever - it performs just fine in use.
=sParty


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Just a shot in the dark but maybe that's done for efficiency? 51 teeth must be a LOT of friction and increase in chain angles is getting up there. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Not sure. I came to the same conclusion as Sparty. I figure it probably wouldn't matter in use. Or if it did, I'd destroy the 51 in short order and go back to my 11-46 with a lesson learned while I hunted for a new 50T cassette, prolly take one that's used on an e-bike.

My bet was NBD tho. Sounds like that's what others are experiencing too.

----------------

Honestly, how many teeth do I need to engage anyways. The 11T, in a perfect world, I have 5 teeth engaged. So for the 51T, if only 20% of hte teeth are actually engaged, I have maybe 5 teeth engaged with the chain and I should still be GTG.


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

I'd be really interested in knowing if an 11 speed M7000 SLX GS (mid cage) would work with the 11-51. I'm currently running a Sunrace 11-42 with 28t front ring and it's fine, but more range is better especially for winter.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

stm32disco said:


> I'd be really interested in knowing if an 11 speed M7000 SLX GS (mid cage) would work with the 11-51. I'm currently running a Sunrace 11-42 with 28t front ring and it's fine, but more range is better especially for winter.


I tried something similar (long cage) a year or two ago with a Sunrace 11-50t cassette and while it did make the shift, I could tell there was a lot of stress in the system. I rode it regardless for about 6 months before shifting degraded and once it got noisy and crunchy, I finally took the time to thoroughly examine the situation.

The derailleur was shot. Pivots wallowed, very sloppy, ruined.

Best to buy a 12-spd derailleur IME.
=sParty


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## stnmntn (May 11, 2018)

huckleberry hound said:


> I was able to ...
> If anyone has any questions please fire away.


This is a great post! I have a 11 spd stumpy st alloy and looking to go similar route but starting with the cranks. Currently it has not so great powerspline BB with 3 piece cranks. I've been thinking swapping it out with MT800 BB and M7000SLX cranks; interested in your thoughts as you have the same cranks? M7000SLX boost cranks have a 53mm chainline and 176 q factor compared to my current ones at 52mm and 172. I'm assuming the 1mm increase in chainline is fine, but not sure if i should be concerned about the wider q factor (or am i overthinking it and won't even notice it).

Or for little more money i can just go with the new M7100 12 spd SLX crankset which has same 52mm chainline/172 q factor as my current 11spd (this would also future proof if i eventually decide to go full 12 spd drivetrain). But again it brings up the question - does the shimano 12spd chainring work well with 11 spd chains. I'm all ears if anyone is running such a setup!? Thanks.


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

Aresab said:


> You may both be right but I believe that you would need to add the 12-speed chain with extended plates for the full HG+ benefits. I have the M7100 & M5100 and they do appear identical in the shift ramps for the largest cogs at the minimum. I have not installed the M5100 yet but I'd probably try the Deore 12S chain when I do.


Did you ever try out the Deore12S chain with the M5100 cassette? I'm looking to upgrade so was curious if it works.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> Best to buy a 12-spd derailleur IME.
> =sParty


SParty, are you running the slx 12 derailleur? What shifter and chain are you using?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

noosa2 said:


> SParty, are you running the slx 12 derailleur?


Yes. Works great.



noosa2 said:


> What shifter and chain are you using?


XT 11-spd shifter, KMC X11.93 chain.

I measure my chains regularly and replace them well before they've stretched significantly. I have several bikes so I can't say just how long a single chain lasts as I'm frequently switching up my rides. But there's no doubt these (relatively) cheap KMC chains last me a long time. I lube them with dry lube in the summer and thick wet petroleum-based lube during the wet season (I'm in the PNW.) Personally I'm convinced it's cheaper to buy inexpensive chains and replace them as needed rather than expensive chains and try to eek out as many miles as possible.

Just got back from another ride on the M5100 cassette this afternoon, it's performing up to my high expectations. In fact I think it's fair to say it's exceeding them. I don't believe I've experienced better shifting. That said, the fact that large cogs shifter slower than small ones is undeniable. I'll cheerfully pay that price for a low gear that allows me to pull stumps. 
=sParty


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> Yes. Works great.
> 
> XT 11-spd shifter, KMC X11.93 chain.
> 
> ...


Thanks sParty, I hear you in those cheap KMC chains. I did the same thing for the last 3 years or so and just recently tried a shimano XT chain to see if I was missing anything. So far I don't notice any improvements in shifting.
Think I'm going to give the M5100 a try.


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## dave_rh (Jul 28, 2014)

noosa2 said:


> SParty, are you running the slx 12 derailleur? What shifter and chain are you using?


Looking at the Deore M6100 12 speed rear derailleur and the Deore M5100 11 Speed Rear derailleur. They look 100% identical to me.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

dave_rh said:


> Looking at the Deore M6100 12 speed rear derailleur and the Deore M5100 11 Speed Rear derailleur. They look 100% identical to me.


You might be right...and it looks like the M5100 11 speed is cheaper.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

The tooth pattern is intriguing me. The gears have two teeth on each cog that are slightly twisted. The derailleur needs to be adjusted just right. It has to ride between hitting the larger cog, and catching on that twisted tooth. It’s pretty sensitive.

I am not dissatisfied, but it’s interesting nonetheless.


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## dave_rh (Jul 28, 2014)

Whiterabbitt said:


> The tooth pattern is intriguing me. The gears have two teeth on each cog that are slightly twisted. The derailleur needs to be adjusted just right. It has to ride between hitting the larger cog, and catching on that twisted tooth. It's pretty sensitive.
> 
> I am not dissatisfied, but it's interesting nonetheless.


I think its because the cassette shares the 8 biggest cogs with the the 12-speed cassette. Those funny shaped teeth probably support the 12 speed hyperglide+ shifting function.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

I wonder if that means best results are achieved with a 12s chain? My 11 works, both on a brand new bike and also a 20 year old 26-er with less than desireable chainline, but it’s literally a half turn or less on the shifter tensioner to put it in the sweet spot. Both bikes.

I actually don’t know if there is a difference between 11s and 12s chain


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Whiterabbitt said:


> I wonder if that means best results are achieved with a 12s chain? My 11 works, both on a brand new bike and also a 20 year old 26-er with less than desireable chainline, but it's literally a half turn or less on the shifter tensioner to put it in the sweet spot. Both bikes.
> 
> I actually don't know if there is a difference between 11s and 12s chain


This could also be because you are using a derailleur that isn't designed for a 51t cog.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Just mounted up a M5100 cassette. I’m using an SLX 12 speed rear derailleur, XT 11-spd shifter with a KMC X11.93 chain. It shifts nicely in the stand and out on the road. Looking forward to a trail test on Monday.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

noosa2 said:


> Just mounted up a M5100 cassette. I'm using an SLX 12 speed rear derailleur, XT 11-spd shifter with a KMC X11.93 chain. It shifts nicely in the stand and out on the road. Looking forward to a trail test on Monday.


I'm using the exact same components. Just did this ride today and loved the gear range and well as shifting performance. Well, almost loved it. For whatever reason, my 3+ year old XT 11-spd shifter doesn't always make it to the 2nd upshift when I attempt to employ MultiRelease. Most of the time it does, but not always. So I recently ordered an XTR 11-spd shifter from Universal Cycles -- it arrived today. Yay!

Now I'm off to the garage to draw a beer, turn on SOMA FM's Groove Salad and install my fancy new shifter. The old XT shifter works well enough that I'll swap it onto my Honzo which currently has an SLX shifter (no MultiRelease on that model.) I figure an iffy MultiRelease shifter is better than one with no MultiRelease at all.

Now back to you, noosa2. Please give us a post-ride report of how your new drivetrain components perform on Monday. Thanks!
=sParty


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> I'm using the exact same components. Just did this ride today and loved the gear range and well as shifting performance. Well, almost loved it. For whatever reason, my 3+ year old XT 11-spd shifter doesn't always make it to the 2nd upshift when I attempt to employ MultiRelease. Most of the time it does, but not always. So I recently ordered an XTR 11-spd shifter from Universal Cycles -- it arrived today. Yay!
> 
> Now I'm off to the garage to draw a beer, turn on SOMA FM's Groove Salad and install my fancy new shifter. The old XT shifter works well enough that I'll swap it onto my Honzo which currently has an SLX shifter (no MultiRelease on that model.) I figure an iffy MultiRelease shifter is better than one with no MultiRelease at all.
> 
> ...


First ride on the M5100 cassette and I guess it worked well. I say I guess it worked well because after about the first 30mins I stopped thinking about it completely because it was doing what it is made to do without an issue.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

noosa2 said:


> First ride on the M5100 cassette and I guess it worked well. I say I guess it worked well because after about the first 30mins I stopped thinking about it completely because it was doing what it is made to do without an issue.


:thumbsup:


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## DirtDogVT (Aug 23, 2010)

Does anyone know if the 6100 rear derailleur will work with an slx 11 speed shifter and the deore new 11-51t cassette.

Apologies if it was already mentioned in the thread and I missed it.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

DirtDogVT said:


> Does anyone know if the 6100 rear derailleur will work with an slx 11 speed shifter and the deore new 11-51t cassette.
> 
> Apologies if it was already mentioned in the thread and I missed it.


I believe it will. Evidently 11-spd & 12-spd derailleurs share the same amount of throw (even tho the shifters don't.) So we can use an 11-spd shifter and an 11-spd cassette with a 12-spd derailleur (so long as they're all Shimano brand.)

I'm doing exactly this - works perfectly. Personally I'm employing the M7100 SLX derailleur but the specs are the same for the M6100.








=sParty


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

Well, I decided to jump into the fray here. Will report back how it all comes together once I get everything installed. Here’s what I ordered:

-M5100 11S cassette
-M6100 12S derailleur 
-M6100 12S chain
-Wolftooth direct mount Shimano 12S chainring
-Use existing XT-M8000 11S shifter

Going off some previous details in this thread where it was mentioned that the M5100 cassette appears to be exactly the same as M6100 at least in the low gears. Fingers crossed it all works and I possibly get some HG+ shifting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

HowardRoark said:


> Well, I decided to jump into the fray here. Will report back how it all comes together once I get everything installed. Here's what I ordered:
> 
> -M5100 11S cassette
> -M6100 12S derailleur
> ...


Cool, let us know how it works. 
I have close to 500 miles on my setup and I am still loving it.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

HowardRoark said:


> Well, I decided to jump into the fray here. Will report back how it all comes together once I get everything installed. Here's what I ordered:
> 
> * -M5100 11S cassette*
> -M6100 12S derailleur
> ...


Is it possible to run a 12-spd chain on an 11-spd cassette? I didn't know that.
=sParty


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

Sparticus said:


> Is it possible to run a 12-spd chain on an 11-spd cassette? I didn't know that.
> =sParty


Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the M6100 cassette looked exactly the same as the M5100 cassette and that the 12S chain might work. So I decided I'd give it a try. Worst case is I'm out $100 for the chain and chainring if it doesn't work, but I can probably recoup most of that back reselling if necessary.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

HowardRoark said:


> Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the M6100 cassette looked exactly the same as the M5100 cassette and that the 12S chain might work. So I decided I'd give it a try. Worst case is I'm out $100 for the chain and chainring if it doesn't work, but I can probably recoup most of that back reselling if necessary.


I'll bet it does work. I recall back when I was running a 10-spd drivetrain, someone suggested using an 11-spd chain and this worked great. Don't know why I didn't recall this earlier. Anyway I'll be surprised if the same functionality doesn't apply to 11/12-spd.
=sParty


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> I believe it will. Evidently 11-spd & 12-spd derailleurs share the same amount of throw (even tho the shifters don't.) So we can use an 11-spd shifter and an 11-spd cassette with a 12-spd derailleur (so long as they're all Shimano brand.)
> 
> I'm doing exactly this - works perfectly. Personally I'm employing the M7100 SLX derailleur but the specs are the same for the M6100.
> 
> ...


Just ordered the M6100 derailleur for my second bike. It is currently setup with 11speeds but I'm hoping this derailleur allows me to get better shifting with an 11-50t 11speed cassette.


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## adorobis (Mar 23, 2019)

I'm more conservative here, cassette, shifter, chain and derailleur from the M5100 1x11 groupset, only replacing chainring by aliexpress.
Works like a charm on my very old 26" hardtail 
Btw, the 116 links chain was just long enough for this setup (with 38 teeth chainring)


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## adorobis (Mar 23, 2019)

Sparticus said:


> Is it possible to run a 12-spd chain on an 11-spd cassette? I didn't know that.
> =sParty


As the chain is narrower it might not work as well as expected so I would rather stick to 11sp chain for 11sp cassette.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Nice lookin' system!
=sParty


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

huckleberry hound said:


> Cool, let us know how it works.
> I have close to 500 miles on my setup and I am still loving it.


I finally got it all installed and everything seems to work together really well. I wish I knew someone with a full M6100 to see how the shifting compares. If I ever find one to test I'll report back here. So, if anyone was wondering it appears like a 12S chain works fine with the M5100 cassette. Still need to take it to the trail for a more thorough test. Will report back here after I log a few miles.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

Sparticus said:


> I'm using the exact same components. Just did this ride today and loved the gear range and well as shifting performance. Well, almost loved it. For whatever reason, my 3+ year old XT 11-spd shifter doesn't always make it to the 2nd upshift when I attempt to employ MultiRelease. Most of the time it does, but not always. So I recently ordered an XTR 11-spd shifter from Universal Cycles -- it arrived today. Yay!
> 
> Now I'm off to the garage to draw a beer, turn on SOMA FM's Groove Salad and install my fancy new shifter. The old XT shifter works well enough that I'll swap it onto my Honzo which currently has an SLX shifter (no MultiRelease on that model.) I figure an iffy MultiRelease shifter is better than one with no MultiRelease at all.
> 
> ...


I've noticed that when I'm double shifting down (to bigger gears) it's sometimes not that great. I'm wondering if I am experiencing a similar issue to what you were seeing. Did the new shifter help? Since you said it was MultiRelease I assume this is the opposite problem as what I am seeing?


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## mtnbiker4life (Sep 19, 2005)

*2014 Turner Flux*

I just finished setting up my FS Bike. I am running XT chain, with XT rear DR, and XTR shifter. Since this is a none boost frame and I am running a 2.6 NN the chain gets reallyt close in the 51T. Is this happening to anyone else?


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

mtnbiker4life said:


> I just finished setting up my FS Bike. I am running XT chain, with XT rear DR, and XTR shifter. Since this is a none boost frame and I am running a 2.6 NN the chain gets reallyt close in the 51T. Is this happening to anyone else?


Yep it gets pretty close on my Stache but so did the 11-46 before as well.


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## dogstar (Dec 16, 2005)

HowardRoark said:


> Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the M6100 cassette looked exactly the same as the M5100 cassette and that the 12S chain might work. So I decided I'd give it a try. Worst case is I'm out $100 for the chain and chainring if it doesn't work, but I can probably recoup most of that back reselling if


Am I missing something an advantage of running the 12spd chain and chainring with the other bits? Seems like quicker wear and more cost (for the chain at least. Probably no matter for the chainring) Or does the 12spd derailleur require the 12spd chain (I don't think so but maybe)?

Anyway, just curious.


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

And what is the actual difference between the M5100 and M6100 rear derailleurs? Must be something...


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## jamesdwebber (May 10, 2013)

Just posted this to another thread (https://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-...-shimano-derailleur-1154941.html#post15036525) but realized it would be more appropriate here.

I'm working through this question right now. I have the Deore 11 speed shifter (sl-m5100), the 11-51 cassette, and by accident, the Deore 6100 12 speed rear derailleur. I meant to order the 5100 derailleur for 11-51 but alas, my mistake. Based on what I've read here, it sounds like the 11 speed shifter should work with the 12 speed derailleur, but I'm having a hard time getting the shifting to work well despite following Shimano's setup instructions. Before I pack the derailleur up and return it, I wanted to check in with all of you. Do you anticipate this working like other 11 speed shifters / 12 speed derailleurs, or do you have any reason to believe that Deore the 5100 shifter won't work with the 6100 derailleur? I see now that Shimano's compatibility chart says it won't, but again, before I give up, I thought I'd check. Thanks in advance.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

in the trees said:


> And what is the actual difference between the M5100 and M6100 rear derailleurs? Must be something...


Per my super un-precise measurements using my eyes, they look exactly the same. 5100 on top, 6100 on bottom


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

jamesdwebber said:


> Just posted this to another thread (https://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-...-shimano-derailleur-1154941.html#post15036525) but realized it would be more appropriate here.
> 
> I'm working through this question right now. I have the Deore 11 speed shifter (sl-m5100), the 11-51 cassette, and by accident, the Deore 6100 12 speed rear derailleur. I meant to order the 5100 derailleur for 11-51 but alas, my mistake. Based on what I've read here, it sounds like the 11 speed shifter should work with the 12 speed derailleur, but I'm having a hard time getting the shifting to work well despite following Shimano's setup instructions. Before I pack the derailleur up and return it, I wanted to check in with all of you. Do you anticipate this working like other 11 speed shifters / 12 speed derailleurs, or do you have any reason to believe that Deore the 5100 shifter won't work with the 6100 derailleur? I see now that Shimano's compatibility chart says it won't, but again, before I give up, I thought I'd check. Thanks in advance.


I've been using 12 speed derailleur with 11 speed shifter for about 10 months and over 1000 miles without issue. First with an 11-46 cassette then with the 11-51 cassette. Check your derailleur alignment with an alignment tool. It is more sensitive to alignment since it covers such a big spread of gears.


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## jamesdwebber (May 10, 2013)

Hi all,

I think I've answered my own question. After working my way through the setup instructions a few more times, everything seems to be working well. I didn't have a hanger alignment tool handy, but I'll check that next time I'm at the local bike project. The 5100 shifter works with the 6100 derailleur. I've only ever worked on 8-10 speed Shimano stuff, so perhaps I was a little slow to get the hang of the more sensitive alignment. Thanks for your help!

Ps: one thing that doesn't work? Putting the 6100 derailleur on a Bike Friday with 20" wheels. I was aflame with the vision of a 1x11 with a 56T chainring in front and 11-51 in the rear. Fully extended, the bottom of the derailleur cage was a millimeter from the ground, and in the largest cog, the bottom pulley actually rubbed against the side of the tire. If I'd really stuck with the idea, I could have put a thinner tire on (it had 1.75 Schwalbe Marathons), but even if that had worked, I'd still have to be super careful never to go over a bump in the lowest gear. Back to my cobbled together 2x9 setup on the folding bike, and my dirt road tourer gets the new Deore stuff.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

the-one1 said:


> Per my super un-precise measurements using my eyes, they look exactly the same. 5100 on top, 6100 on bottom


I have both and they appear identical except the jockey wheels. The 5100 has 10/11s stamped on one of the pulleys (top if I recall) and they have a slightly different chamfer on both. However I did run a 12 speed Shimano chain and quick link through the M5100 and it ran fine and did not appear to get hung up.


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

And best to run an 11 speed or 12 speed chain with the 11-51 cassette and 5100/6100 derailleur set-ups? Thanks.


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## jamesdwebber (May 10, 2013)

Good question. I ran it with the 11 speed chain on the assumption that the chain width would matter more to the cassette than it would to the derailleur, but I haven't tried the 12 speed chain. The 11 speed worked well once I really took time to hone in the indexing. Speaking of which, that's such an interesting part of the setup. See this page:

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-MARD001-03-ENG.pdf

Instead of the old Park Tools approach (shift to second to smallest sprocket in cassette, then tighten barrel adjuster until a clatter is heard, then loosen the barrel until the clatter quiets, then try shifting up and down the cassette and continue to loosen as needed), the new approach is to find a sprocket 5-7 teeth from the largest and there do the tighten-until-clattering. Then the instructions are to loosen a specified number of turns, which, to my surprise, turned out to be right once the cables had bedded in and I'd ridden around the street to get a feel for shifting under load. It's interesting to realize that my idea of derailleur tuning is about 10 years out of date...


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## Kylezt4 (Oct 27, 2020)

Hey Guys, I have a new 2021 Commencal Meta Tr and im loving it so far. But I'm having trouble diagnosing an issue with the 11 speed Deore cassette. Only after about 3 rides I noticed a rattling from the cassette going over small bumps. I figured out that the top 4 gears attached together by the carrier I believe its called, are moving 1-2mm laterally and independently from the rest of the gears. I did notice that the Freehub body has some gouges in the splines from some of the cogs. Would this cause the issue im having even after only about 100 miles? Shifting is still super smooth, but the rattling is still concerning. Thanks for any suggestions.


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## DirtDogVT (Aug 23, 2010)

Kylezt4 said:


> Hey Guys, I have a new 2021 Commencal Meta Tr and im loving it so far. But I'm having trouble diagnosing an issue with the 11 speed Deore cassette. Only after about 3 rides I noticed a rattling from the cassette going over small bumps. I figured out that the top 4 gears attached together by the carrier I believe its called, are moving 1-2mm laterally and independently from the rest of the gears. I did notice that the Freehub body has some gouges in the splines from some of the cogs. Would this cause the issue im having even after only about 100 miles? Shifting is still super smooth, but the rattling is still concerning. Thanks for any suggestions.


Had the same problem. I corrected it by making sure the lock ring on the cassette is properly tightened.


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## MiloAsh (Oct 28, 2020)

I'm having the same issue - the cassette 'clunks' when I'm rolling along a trail with small rollers that are just enough to activate my rear suspension. If I'm not in the upper cluster (the cogs that are 'spidered' together), there's a clunking sound as the clustered cogs shift back and forth against the freehub splines. I thought I was really cranking the cassette nut but every ride it ends up loosening just enough to allow the cogs to move freely.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

MiloAsh said:


> I'm having the same issue - the cassette 'clunks' when I'm rolling along a trail with small rollers that are just enough to activate my rear suspension. If I'm not in the upper cluster (the cogs that are 'spidered' together), there's a clunking sound as the clustered cogs shift back and forth against the freehub splines. I thought I was really cranking the cassette nut but every ride it ends up loosening just enough to allow the cogs to move freely.


I too was having this problem but I thought it was just the crappy Hope freehub body causing it. I had torqued the lockring all the way up to the max 50nm and it would still do it. So it appears the spider notches are too big for the splines. I solved the problem by shimming inside the spider of the cassette be cutting some of my wife's bobby pins, the flat side, the same length as the spider and putting them in between each spline and notch. Since the loose sprockets dig into the freehub body I rotated the spider forward as if it had a load and then put the shims in the gaps to keep it in place so that the spider and loose sprockets would be aligned correctly to keep the shift ramps in their proper place. I haven't had any issues with it since and I have put several hundred miles on it. 
I'm about to replace the bearings in my hub and when I do I will post some pics of what I'm talking about. I'm just waiting on the bearings to come in so I should have the pictures up in a couple of weeks.


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## marcw (Apr 20, 2012)

I see a lot of people not liking sunrace, but is is not the same as the BOX label. I have used both 11-46 box/surace all all is ok


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## Kylezt4 (Oct 27, 2020)

huckleberry hound said:


> I too was having this problem but I thought it was just the crappy Hope freehub body causing it. I had torqued the lockring all the way up to the max 50nm and it would still do it. So it appears the spider notches are too big for the splines. I solved the problem by shimming inside the spider of the cassette be cutting some of my wife's bobby pins, the flat side, the same length as the spider and putting them in between each spline and notch. Since the loose sprockets dig into the freehub body I rotated the spider forward as if it had a load and then put the shims in the gaps to keep it in place so that the spider and loose sprockets would be aligned correctly to keep the shift ramps in their proper place. I haven't had any issues with it since and I have put several hundred miles on it.
> I'm about to replace the bearings in my hub and when I do I will post some pics of what I'm talking about. I'm just waiting on the bearings to come in so I should have the pictures up in a couple of weeks.


 Sounds like I might have the same problem! Pictures would be great thanks


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## MiloAsh (Oct 28, 2020)

That's a great solution! I was racking my brain for a way to reduce / eliminate the play between the freehub splines and the cassette notches...I'm running an alu RaceFace body so it gets somewhat notched which makes the problem worse. I might try this with the bobby pin shims on the LOADED face just to add some life to the freehub body....I go through 1 a year at $90 each :eekster:


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

MiloAsh said:


> That's a great solution! I was racking my brain for a way to reduce / eliminate the play between the freehub splines and the cassette notches...I'm running an alu RaceFace body so it gets somewhat notched which makes the problem worse. I might try this with the bobby pin shims on the LOADED face just to add some life to the freehub body....I go through 1 a year at $90 each :eekster:


I was going to do that but only the spider has the play, not the individual cogs. The shims wouldn't fit in the cogs. So when the cogs bite into the aluminum freehub body or as in my case the worthless stainless steel freehub body it rotates them forward and if you have the spider shimmed on the forward edge it throws the shift ramps off and the shifting won't be as smooth. The spider needs to be rotated forward and the shims put on the backside.


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## MiloAsh (Oct 28, 2020)

:thumbsup:
I'll give it a shot


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

*What to do if M5100 11-51 cassette rattles*



Kylezt4 said:


> Hey Guys, I have a new 2021 Commencal Meta Tr and im loving it so far. But I'm having trouble diagnosing an issue with the 11 speed Deore cassette. Only after about 3 rides I noticed a rattling from the cassette going over small bumps. I figured out that the top 4 gears attached together by the carrier I believe its called, are moving 1-2mm laterally and independently from the rest of the gears. I did notice that the Freehub body has some gouges in the splines from some of the cogs. Would this cause the issue im having even after only about 100 miles? Shifting is still super smooth, but the rattling is still concerning. Thanks for any suggestions.





MiloAsh said:


> I'm having the same issue - the cassette 'clunks' when I'm rolling along a trail with small rollers that are just enough to activate my rear suspension. If I'm not in the upper cluster (the cogs that are 'spidered' together), there's a clunking sound as the clustered cogs shift back and forth against the freehub splines. I thought I was really cranking the cassette nut but every ride it ends up loosening just enough to allow the cogs to move freely.





huckleberry hound said:


> I too was having this problem but I thought it was just the crappy Hope freehub body causing it. I had torqued the lockring all the way up to the max 50nm and it would still do it. So it appears the spider notches are too big for the splines. I solved the problem by shimming inside the spider of the cassette be cutting some of my wife's bobby pins, the flat side, the same length as the spider and putting them in between each spline and notch. Since the loose sprockets dig into the freehub body I rotated the spider forward as if it had a load and then put the shims in the gaps to keep it in place so that the spider and loose sprockets would be aligned correctly to keep the shift ramps in their proper place. I haven't had any issues with it since and I have put several hundred miles on it.
> I'm about to replace the bearings in my hub and when I do I will post some pics of what I'm talking about. I'm just waiting on the bearings to come in so I should have the pictures up in a couple of weeks.


Okay so my new bearings came in and I finally had the time to take my hub apart and take some pictures of what I'm talking about with the bobby pins. You will need to make sure that the bobby pins are of the flat variety like the dark one on the picture. The light one has a slight radius on the back side which makes it too fat.










You will need to cut the length of them to that of the spider. Cut enough for each spline.










Then you will need to put one it the gap of each spline. I "clocked" mine so that the spider will maintain the proper alignment with the small cogs after they rotate into the freehub body. Believe it or not this is a STEEL freehub body. I think Hope uses cheese instead of steel. Make sure you put them all the way down flush with the spider. There isn't enough room on the individual cogs for the shims to fit.










After you put a shim in each of the gaps you can then put the rest of the cogs on and then torque the lockring to spec which is 40-50nm. I did mine at 48nm. After doing this I have not had a single rattle in over 500 miles.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

noosa2 said:


> Just ordered the M6100 derailleur for my second bike. It is currently setup with 11speeds but I'm hoping this derailleur allows me to get better shifting with an 11-50t 11speed cassette.


Quick update: I like the SLX 12 speed derailleur with the M5100 11 speed cassette so much I did something similar in my second bike. I'm using the M6100 12 speed derailleur with the M5100 11 speed 11-51 cassette, a well used SLX 11 speed shifter, and slightly used shimano 11 speed XT chain and a new cable and housing. The shifting is fantastic.


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## coombs (Jun 22, 2005)

*Loose rivets*

I noticed a noise from the rear of my 429 Trail a few weeks ago. I was taking everything apart to clean and check it. I noticed that the outermost rivets on the carrier arm of the cassette were loose. The largest three cogs rattle consistently. It is a bit aggravating. I have a warranty claim in with JensonUSA right now. We'll see what they say. Anyone else have this issue? Solutions? Thanks.


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## hece (Feb 27, 2017)

huckleberry hound said:


> Okay so my new bearings came in and I finally had the time to take my hub apart and take some pictures of what I'm talking about with the bobby pins. You will need to make sure that the bobby pins are of the flat variety like the dark one on the picture. The light one has a slight radius on the back side which makes it too fat.


The curved pins do go in if you hammer them in. But now I wonder how I am going to get the five cogs off when the time comes. Oh well, I guess I worry about it then. Maybe hammer with a screwdriver through the spokes from the other side.

I also realized the huge play on the top group. I have an aluminium Hope 4 pro hub. Unacceptable manufacturing from Shimano really. I hope it will be fixed in the next batch.


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## Sinkie_roo (Dec 29, 2020)

coombs said:


> *Loose rivets*
> 
> I noticed a noise from the rear of my 429 Trail a few weeks ago. I was taking everything apart to clean and check it. I noticed that the outermost rivets on the carrier arm of the cassette were loose. The largest three cogs rattle consistently. It is a bit aggravating. I have a warranty claim in with JensonUSA right now. We'll see what they say. Anyone else have this issue? Solutions? Thanks.


First post here, was searching the internet for answers and saw this. Same issue here, rivets are all loose on M5100 cassette, got nothing to do with the hubs too!


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Just checked my cassette, the rivets that hold the three largest cogs to the aluminum carrier has some play 🤬 All 6 rivets are loose. Just submitted a warranty claim with Jenson. I'll update on what they say. In the meantime I'm using a Sunrace 11-50t and shifting is not as good.
12 speed Deore, SLX and XT, XTR also use rivets for the 3 largest cogs.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

coombs said:


> *Loose rivets*
> 
> I noticed a noise from the rear of my 429 Trail a few weeks ago. I was taking everything apart to clean and check it. I noticed that the outermost rivets on the carrier arm of the cassette were loose. The largest three cogs rattle consistently. It is a bit aggravating. I have a warranty claim in with JensonUSA right now. We'll see what they say. Anyone else have this issue? Solutions? Thanks.


Any word from Jenson?
I've opened a claim with them but have not heard back other than an email indicating a case has been opened.
I couldn't stand the shifting on the Sunrace cassete I was using as a backup, so "fixed" the Deore and put it back on. I put aluminum shims in the gaps between the carrier and the 2nd cog, kind of like this:


http://imgur.com/a/ZgPEX3Q


15miles and still holding.


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## MFerreira (Feb 8, 2021)

Hi guys greetings from Portugal,

I'm doing this convertion from a 2x10 to a 1x11 speed on my carbon Cube.
I have the Deore cassete 11-51 with a M8100 12s XT rear derraileur, a 11s XT shifter, a 34T chainring and the HG601 chain with 113Links plus the quick link.
I have read the all thread and seen people saying it shifts like butter but....
I'm having some difficulties getting the B-screw tension correct so that the 51T line on the RD to reach the teeth of the 51T cog.
Also i'm not being able to get the shifts correct up and down.

What am i doing wrong, some help and tips apreciated.
I'm suspicious of chain length.
This is how it looks on the 11T cog.


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## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

Chain looks too long. How did you determine chain length?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Lots of great info here, thanks for input!

I've purchased a m5100 11-51 & 11 speed XT m8000 shifter so far.

Thinking about a XT 12 spd M8100-rd at this point vs m5100/m6100/m7100.
Any reason why I should re-consider?

What's the consensus on a chain? 11 or 12 speed Shimano is best?

I have XT 104 bcd cranks (non boost).
So which 1x ring? WolfTooth often seems to come out in front but there are other choices.

I know big can of worms...round or oval???


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## dave_rh (Jul 28, 2014)

MFerreira said:


> Hi guys greetings from Portugal,
> 
> I'm doing this convertion from a 2x10 to a 1x11 speed on my carbon Cube.
> I have the Deore cassete 11-51 with a M8100 12s XT rear derraileur, a 11s XT shifter, a 34T chainring and the HG601 chain with 113Links plus the quick link.
> ...


Chain length seems a bit short if that is in the 11t?. Best tip is to download the Rear mech RD-M8100 *Dealer Manual *from si.shimano.com and follow shimano's instructions on sizing a chain for either a hardtail or dual suspension


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Abunchahicks said:


> Chain looks too long. How did you determine chain length?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The chain isn't too long. It's too short. 
It's no wonder that he can't reach the B-line.

With a short chain like this, the B-screw even when completely removed will not reach the B-line on the derailleur.

Shimano guideline for chain lengths on hardtails doesn't work. 
I made that mistake too and had to add 2 links to make it shift properly.


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## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

OneTrustMan said:


> The chain isn't too long. It's too short.
> It's no wonder that he can't reach the B-line.
> 
> With a short chain like this, the B-screw even when completely removed will not reach the B-line on the derailleur.
> ...


I wanted to type not long enough and typed too long. Thanks for the correction.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MFerreira (Feb 8, 2021)

dave_rh said:


> Chain length seems a bit short if that is in the 11t?. Best tip is to download the Rear mech RD-M8100 *Dealer Manual *from si.shimano.com and follow shimano's instructions on sizing a chain for either a hardtail or dual suspension





OneTrustMan said:


> The chain isn't too long. It's too short.
> It's no wonder that he can't reach the B-line.
> 
> With a short chain like this, the B-screw even when completely removed will not reach the B-line on the derailleur.
> ...


That is what i think might be the problem.
I placed the chain on the 51T cog and around the 34 chainring and then added 4 links plus the quick link which gave a total of 114Links.
The derraileur is a SGS so i might need to add links to the chain.

My doubt now is how many links should be enought?


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

MFerreira said:


> My doubt now is how many links should be enought?


The bare minimum of 2 links is enough.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Wrong, the specs call for the quick link plus 4-6 links depending on the application.


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## MFerreira (Feb 8, 2021)

huckleberry hound said:


> Wrong, the specs call for the quick link plus 4-6 links depending on the application.
> View attachment 1915288


Ok so i added 4 plus the quick link, but it looks i'll need to add some more.
I'll try adding 4 more links and then remove as needed.

Thanks for your help guys and i'll post the result as soon as possible


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

So can the rd m6100-sgs be used for lowest budget systems vs the harder to find and more $ m5100 rd? I'm building a 2nd cheaper mtb

How about sl? M5100v6100vs7100?


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

And how about chains 11 vs 12 as ideal? 
XT or XTR chains are said to work better because they are stiffer?


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

So it's a no go to use a 12sp shifter with an 11sp cassette? Was hoping to have everything 12sp on my temp bike (but with HG splline) and only need a cassette when I get my new bike.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

jdang307 said:


> So it's a no go to use a 12sp shifter with an 11sp cassette? Was hoping to have everything 12sp on my temp bike (but with HG splline) and only need a cassette when I get my new bike.


Apparently no. You need a 11spd shifter with a 11spd cassette. The RD just follows along and works or not depending on design.


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## MFerreira (Feb 8, 2021)

dave_rh said:


> Chain length seems a bit short if that is in the 11t?. Best tip is to download the Rear mech RD-M8100 *Dealer Manual *from si.shimano.com and follow shimano's instructions on sizing a chain for either a hardtail or dual suspension





OneTrustMan said:


> The chain isn't too long. It's too short.
> It's no wonder that he can't reach the B-line.
> 
> With a short chain like this, the B-screw even when completely removed will not reach the B-line on the derailleur.
> ...





huckleberry hound said:


> Wrong, the specs call for the quick link plus 4-6 links depending on the application.
> View attachment 1915288


Thanks to all of you for the quick answers on this.
I had 114Link on the chain, now i added 2 more, so 116links is perfect for my setup.
I'm now able to move the shifts up and down with ease and reach the good tunning on the B-Screw.

My setup is the 11-51T 11S deore cassete, oval chainring 34T, M8100 XT12S derrailleur, 11S XT Shifter and the HG601 116Links chain.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Had some questions for those who have already made the switch especially now that you have some long term data.
Current Setup: XT M8000 shifter (11s), XT M8000 rd (11s), Sunrace CSMX8 11-46, PC-X1 chain

I am in need of a new cassette as mine is toast and my basic question is should I just grab a new Sunrace or is the shifting on the 5100 (11-51) cassette going to be a large enough difference that it is worth grabbing a new 5100 rd as well and going full shimano?
Also I read conflicting info in the thread as to the ability of running my current rd with the 11-51 cassette. Thoughts?
I don't need a 51t the 46t does me fine, my main concern is the quality of the shifts.
I would go 12 speed but I have chris king hubs and it'll run $300 bucks to switch to MS or XD so I am waiting a while to see if my future is with shimano or eagle.

Thanks for the input


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

bigkat273 said:


> Had some questions for those who have already made the switch especially now that you have some long term data.
> Current Setup: XT M8000 shifter (11s), XT M8000 rd (11s), Sunrace CSMX8 11-46, PC-X1 chain
> 
> I am in need of a new cassette as mine is toast and my basic question is should I just grab a new Sunrace or is the shifting on the 5100 (11-51) cassette going to be a large enough difference that it is worth grabbing a new 5100 rd as well and going full shimano?
> ...


If you don't need the range then I wouldn't bother spending the extra money required to run the 11-51 cassette. Yes you do need to change derailleurs to run the cassette. You might be able to "make" the M8000 derailleur work but it will put excessive strain on it and it definitely would not shift as well.
Yes the cassette does shift better than a Sunrace cassette, but I can't say that it is worth the expense of buying another derailleur better if you don't need the range. Now if you think that you might change to 12 speed eventually then yes go for it and buy the 12 speed derailleur.


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## cantdecide (Jan 20, 2005)

I converted my wife's Spec Diverge from Ultegra 2 x 11 (hydraulic brakes) to 1 x 11 using:
Wolftooth 40T ring + chainring bolts (110 BCD 5 hole for Praxis cranks)​Deore 5100 11 spd rr derailleur​Deore 5100 11-51 cassette​XTR chain (all I could find)​Wolftooth Tanpan​
Cranks ... I've R&R'ed many cranks (Sram, Surly, RF, Canfield, Shimano) for many years and never had issues like I did with the OEM Praxis Zayante AL cranks. They did not allow me to "seat" the crank splines on the spindle and then tighten the crank bolt ... biggest pain in the butt ... the crank arm would spin as I tried to seat the crank arm and tighten the crank bolt. Several times it spun enough that when the bolt finally engaged in the spindle the crank arms weren't 180 degrees apart. In the end, I think I cross -threaded the spindle but it got to torque and I figure it's not coming apart anytime soon ... super disappointed ... makes me a huge fan of the shimano crank design. I did read the Praxis manual many times .. no real info. Lame design in my opinion (or lame mechanic...?!!)

Wolftooth Tanpan installed in-line between the brifter and the frame ... no big deal here. The little set screw requires a 0 phillips head ... luckily my Leatherman has that tool. I don't think it needs to be too tight ... the cable wraps on the pulley seem to keep everything in place.
​I think the Diverge internal cable routing sucks. Internal cable routing without dedicated tubes is a pain. The cable stop by the head tube that also has the Hydraulic brake house pass through was tedious for me. Getting the cable into the internal teflon sheath inside the frame was a pain too ... some forceps would have been nice to hold the sheath.

The rear derailleur housing from the frame to the new Deore derailleur is really short. It required a tight bend in the housing - so tight that the black plastic housing cover cracked as I bent it into position. The cable housing entrance angle on the derailleur does not help this transition. Makes me wonder if I should have put the Tanpan at the rear derailleur. When I have a new cable in hand and I'm ready for more futzing with the Diverge internal cable routing I may try that. Wolftooth warns about short cable housing runs near the derailleur and for those bikes recommends the in-line approach. I like having the Tanpan barrel adjuster near the handlebar for on-the-bike tuning. I could see putting a jagwire barrel adjuster near the handlebar if I move the tanpan to the rear derailleur and having two barrel adusters like the old days.

The chain was about a link or two too short per the 5100 derailleur instructions (big to big + 4 links) ... I think I read that here too. The HG601 chain is 126 links. I think the 901 chain was 114 or 116 ... I ran with it anyway.

The b tension screen is all the way out and I'm just about line up with the "51 line" on the back of the derailleur. It's kind of like the chain ... not quite perfect but seems OK.

I rode it around the neighborhood and it shifts well and back pedals in all gears. TIme will tell but I think it was successful. I hope the cassette holds together!

Hope that helps. Thanks for all the tips in this Thread.


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## David9180 (Feb 16, 2021)

Just toasted my Garbaruk 11s 11-48 cassette and put a M5100 on.
Using XT M800 derailleur and shifter with Garbaruk cage.
Works great in the garage, but will have to see on the trials, but all looks good and the shifting is very good.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Is a Sram chainring (X-sync 2) ok to use when rest is Shimano?

I have a SX crank w/ a 32T X-sync 2 direct mount ring in like new condition I can use. It came from a 1x11 Sram build.

The rest would be 11-51 m5100, rd-8100-sgs, sl-m8000, XTR 11spd chain.

Since the inside diameter of 8-12 spd chains is all the same on Sram & Shimano, I'm thinking any front 1x ring will work interchangeable since I'm using a 11 spd chain & not a 12spd HG+ chain?

Thanks


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

I


eakins said:


> Is a Sram chainring (X-sync 2) ok to use when rest is Shimano?
> 
> I have a SX crank w/ a 32T X-sync 2 direct mount ring in like new condition I can use. It came from a 1x11 Sram build.
> 
> ...


There shouldn't be any problems using that chainring.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

huckleberry hound said:


> I
> 
> There shouldn't be any problems using that chainring.


Thanks for confirming that!

I've read in a few places that some feel the Sram X-Sync 2 are the very best rings for 1x10 or 1x11 systems Shimano or Sram.

Vs using other aftermarket 1x rings.
Since Sram offers a 104 bcd option with X-sync 2 they choose those rings for their cranks.

Any thoughts on that?


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## Fabiosg40 (Feb 18, 2021)

I am using the rear shift rd-m5100 with cassette Sunrace I am having problems with cog 42t the chain does not go down. Video


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Have you checked your b-screw adjustment? On my 12-speed Sunrace MZ903 w/ M6100 (same derailleur w/ different Jockey wheels - I have both the M5100 & M6100) the largest teeth need to be below the line. See if this thread helps : Shifting issues 12sp upgrade on HT since it has photos. It's about the 12-speed but they're eerily similar.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Aresab said:


> Have you checked your b-screw adjustment? On my 12-speed Sunrace MZ903 w/ M6100 (same derailleur w/ different Jockey wheels - I have both the M5100 & M6100) the largest teeth need to be below the line. See if this thread helps : Shifting issues 12sp upgrade on HT since it has photos. It's about the 12-speed but they're eerily similar.


So tell us more about the differences you see between the m5100 & m6100 rd.

Visually they look identical and it's very hard to find m5100, while m6100 are plentiful & cheap.

Many use m7100 & m81000 successfully with this 1x11 setup so a m6100 should also work well too?


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Fabiosg40 said:


> I am using the rear shift rd-m5100 with cassette Sunrace I am having problems with cog 42t the chain does not go down. Video


Just throwing this out there:

Is this a SunRace vs Shimano cassette issue?

Using 11-51 11spd Deore cassette with 12spd rd vs using 11 spd SunRace cassettes and maybe minor HG differences?

What about these rd are all designed for 51T cassettes vs a 50t? Would a SunRace 11-51 work better?

I've looked at the SunRace options and have decided to stick with all Shimano (except the chain ring) & then building everything up from the 11-51 m5100 cassette.

I've got a M8000 XT shifter, m5100 cassette so far and looking at my rd options plus a chain...which I'm thinking 11spd XTR.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

They appear identical in my hand with the exception of the Jockey wheels, the M5100 has 11S stamped and they appear a bit wider and less shaved around the corners. Both M5100 & M6100 are 13T but the M6100 Jockey wheels look identical to my M7100 Jockey wheels; also similar in shape to the Shimano 12s chainrings. I'm pretty confident you can use the M6100/7100/8100 in place of the 5100. On a separate note I tried the M5100 briefly on my 12S with Shimano chain/quick link and it did work but the jockey wheels were tighter in the chain. I only tried it on the stand.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Aresab said:


> They appear identical in my hand with the exception of the Jockey wheels, the M5100 has 11S stamped and they appear a bit wider and less shaved around the corners. Both M5100 & M6100 are 13T but the M6100 Jockey wheels look identical to my M7100 Jockey wheels; also similar in shape to the Shimano 12s chainrings. I'm pretty confident you can use the M6100/7100/8100 in place of the 5100. On a separate note I tried the M5100 briefly on my 12S with Shimano chain/quick link and it did work but the jockey wheels were tighter in the chain. I only tried it on the stand.


Thanks!!!

I'd love to see a pic if possible.

Ah that makes sense since the 12spd chains have that additional curved inner shape to them vs the boxier shape of the 11spd inner chain.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

eakins said:


> Thanks!!!
> 
> I'd love to see a pic if possible.
> 
> Ah that makes sense since the 12spd chains have that additional curved inner shape to them vs the boxier shape of the 11spd inner chain.


What would you like to see a pic of? We're getting snow today but I can try either tomorrow or Sat. I have my fatty set up with all M5100 and a PC1130 chain and one of my other bikes with an XT shifter, M6100 RDR & Chain and a Sunrace MZ903 cassette. My SLX bikes are not at this house...


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Aresab said:


> What would you like to see a pic of? We're getting snow today but I can try either tomorrow or Sat. I have my fatty set up with all M5100 and a PC1130 chain and one of my other bikes with an XT shifter, M6100 RDR & Chain and a Sunrace MZ903 cassette. My SLX bikes are not at this house...


The different pulleys 11vs12 and shape difference if possible.

I've looked and have yet to see the difference in pics.

Thnx


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Aresab said:


> What would you like to see a pic of? We're getting snow today but I can try either tomorrow or Sat. I have my fatty set up with all M5100 and a PC1130 chain and one of my other bikes with an XT shifter, M6100 RDR & Chain and a Sunrace MZ903 cassette. My SLX bikes are not at this house...


I grabbed some web images and you can see the pulley shape differences.

M5100 - you can see how the pulley teeth are more squared vs the 6100.

M5100
vs
M6100


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

M7100 & 8100 just to compare


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

M6100









M5100


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Aresab said:


> M6100
> View attachment 1917022
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the photos.

Looks like the amount of sculpting and shaping of the 6100 pulley teeth is sutble and minimal vs the more squared off 5100.

Great to know that a
rd-6100/7100/8100/9100 are all viable options for 1x11 11-51 build ups. The m6100 is much easier to source than a m5100.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

So Jenson has XT 11spd SL in stock and on sale for $45. They just got a shipment.

At that price it's only a few more $ vs lower spec shifters and XT & XTR have better multi-release. From the pics it even looks like XT and XTR are the same internals with XTR having external looks and materials.

XTR is near impossible to find anymore, so if you are building up or have less than XT here's an opportunity.






Shimano XT SL-M80001 Speed Shifter | Jenson USA







www.jensonusa.com


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Sure thing! If I did not get a good deal pre-pandemic then I'd have bought the 12-speed only rather than the M5100. In reality, they appear interchangeable and whichever is the better deal I'd grab. Same thing with the M6100 Vs M7100, there appears to be a 3 gram difference. Once you get to M8100 then you get bearing pulleys, AL cages for both inner/outer, and quick adjust for the clutch without removing the cover.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Aresab said:


> Sure thing! If I did not get a good deal pre-pandemic then I'd have bought the 12-speed only rather than the M5100. In reality, they appear interchangeable and whichever is the better deal I'd grab. Same thing with the M6100 Vs M7100, there appears to be a 3 gram difference. Once you get to M8100 then you get bearing pulleys, AL cages for both inner/outer, and quick adjust for the clutch without removing the cover.


Makes sense.

Not sure why the supply is so tight on the m5100 rd? Maybe large amounts have been bought up by budget bike builders who can use an older/cheaper HG hub wheel and still offer a 1x that has a 11-51 range vs building a more expensive final cost 12spd Deore 10-51.

I've wondered how much better the bearing pulleys work on the trail at XT/XTR grade?
Weight is just a minor factor, but design change can be a larger factor.

Replacement XT pulleys can be sourced and no doubt the aftermarket will move in with 12spd bearing pulleys.

I see you can also buy that XT/XTR clutch cover too if you really want easier access. Or just drill a hole for quick access and use Gorrila tape to cover it back over to keep the dirt out.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Aresab said:


> Sure thing! If I did not get a good deal pre-pandemic then I'd have bought the 12-speed only rather than the M5100. In reality, they appear interchangeable and whichever is the better deal I'd grab. Same thing with the M6100 Vs M7100, there appears to be a 3 gram difference. Once you get to M8100 then you get bearing pulleys, AL cages for both inner/outer, and quick adjust for the clutch without removing the cover.


You can see design difference between the look of the Deore and SLX for sure in the parallelogram parts.

Functionally the same for sure but have not heard about any performance differences?

Why choose SLX over Deore except for looks?


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

eakins said:


> You can see design difference between the look of the Deore and SLX for sure in the parallelogram parts.
> 
> Functionally the same for sure but have not heard about any performance differences?
> 
> Why choose SLX over Deore except for looks?


All of my bikes use XT Shifters M8000 (11) & M8100 (12), it means a lot more that the derailleur with the multi-shift/instant-shift. I actually have M5100 thru M8100 rdrs and honestly can't tell the difference. XT is lighter and adjusts quicker but hurts the pocket more especially if damaged. Although I've never had crud kill the bearings some say bushing tolerate mud better. If you have not checked out LoveMTB's Youtube channel he goes over the RDRs a bit more than my comments.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

So I would like to further discuss chain options.

Some had mentioned to use a 12spd chain, but this cassette does not have the HG+ teeth shaping, even if you use a 12spd rd and a front ring that is 12 spd compatible.

As such a 12spd Shimano chain will not fit those cassette teeth properly.

So that leaves other mfg 12spd chains or 11spd chains?

I'm thinking the XTR 11spd chain CN-HG901 could be one of the top options but I know you guys have opinions of using other???


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

The M5100 has the same tooth profile as the M6100 for this on the cluster but is not listed as HG+; I agree. But even with the SRAM PC-1130, standing on the pedals and shifting were met w/o funky sounds or missed shifts just like my HG+ bikes. I've not yet tried it with an M6100 chain but may someday. Either way it's a very good shifting cassette. The Sunrace works good but the M5100 and all HG+ still appear to shift better.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Aresab said:


> The M5100 has the same tooth profile as the M6100 for this on the cluster but is not listed as HG+; I agree. But even with the SRAM PC-1130, standing on the pedals and shifting were met w/o funky sounds or missed shifts just like my HG+ bikes. I've not yet tried it with an M6100 chain but may someday. Either way it's a very good shifting cassette. The Sunrace works good but the M5100 and all HG+ still appear to shift better.


So the cs-5100 has all the same HG+ ramps on same rings as the cs-6100? Is there tooth profile shaping that the 12spd chain has? Or is that only on the front ring?


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Although I did not pull out calipers, the rings look identical to the M6100 in profile and ramps. There is 1 more cog on the M6100 cluster, tighter spacing of 12-speed, and microspline freehub mount over HG. If you look earlier in this thread I believe we all discussed this when I first got the cassette. See page 2; I posted a photo where you can see the ramps.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Aresab said:


> Although I did not pull out calipers, the rings look identical to the M6100 in profile and ramps. There is 1 more cog on the M6100 cluster, tighter spacing of 12-speed, and microspline freehub mount over HG. If you look earlier in this thread I believe we all discussed this when I first got the cassette. See page 2; I posted a photo where you can see the ramps.


I'm checking back on that now, thanks.

I was thinking 12spd HG+ cassettes also had that rounding tooth shape , like on your 12 spd jockey pulleys vs squared off tooth shape seen on 11spd HG systems?

But you're say HG+ is ramp design only on the cassette, but not tooth shaping like found on jockey pulleys & Shimano front ring?

If the rd-M5100 has square jockey pulleys then the cs-5100 has to have the same teeth...but you're saying the cs-m6100 looks the same?

Guess I need to read alot more about HG+ as a whole.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Am I confusing HG+ cassette shifting ramps vs the new chain engagement tech?









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It's that new 12spd tooth and chain shape that must be matched.

And this cassette has that tooth shape or not?

Sorry I'm having a brain fart.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

So I grabbed the best images I could find.
M5100
M6100


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

HG+ is mainly the cassette and chain but in reality it is a complete system. The front ring and jockey wheels are chamfered to match the narrower/extended plate inners of the HG+ chain so they don't get hung up. That's why older RaceFace rings won't work until they wear a bit. Oddly, the FSA Megatooth chainring works awesome... even when brand new as it has similar chamfers and they've been around for years. The chain and cassette are what really allows shifting under load that HG+ allows.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Got ya...so is a 11 or 12 spd Shimano chain better here then?

Seems if you are not using a Shimano HG+ 12spd front ring with this 1x11 then you should use a Shimano 11spd chain instead? 

But if you are using a HG+ front ring, plus a 12spd rd then you will get better shifting because the 11 & 12 cassettes teeth are shaped the same?


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

eakins said:


> So bottom pic 12spd.
> At 2 I clock. Are those teeth dynamic engagement?
> I don't see that on the upper pic?


Look at 9:00 on the top/5100 and 11:00 on the bottom M6100. You will see the same double ramps. I've had both in my hand and they appear the same. I don't have the Micropline bike in the house I'm at now to take a photo. Also, look in post 26 you can see the double ramps in the image on the scale. Interesting but this ramps only appear in the larger 1/2 of the cogs on both 5100 and all 12s options.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Aresab said:


> Look at 9:00 on the top/5100 and 11:00 on the bottom M6100. You will see the same double ramps. I've had both in my hand and they appear the same. I don't have the Micropline bike in the house I'm at now to take a photo. Also, look in post 26 you can see the double ramps in the image on the scale. Interesting but this ramps only appear in the larger 1/2 of the cogs on both 5100 and all 12s options.


Yes I saw that on both but was actually looking at 2pm on the 6100 and what looks like dynamic teeth shaping?

I then later noticed that on the 5100 and changed my post.

Obviously Shimano intends you to use a 11spd HG chain, as seen in the 11 spd jockey pulley teeth shape.

But with a 12spd RD and compatible chain ring, then 12 speed chain shifts better?


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Here's a photo of them on my M5100:


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Thanks.
So you're using that Sram 1180 11speed chain, which by design is boxier and more open.

So has anyone tried a Shimano 12spd chain with what I said above here in this setup?

I thought part of the better HG+ is also the outer chain shaping too vs 11 spd chains?


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

eakins said:


> Thanks.
> So you're using that Sram 1180 11speed chain, which by design is boxier and more open.
> 
> So has anyone tried a Shimano 12spd chain with what I said above here in this setup?
> ...


I'm using a 12 speed chain with the 5100 cassette, 6100 RD, and wolf tooth 12 speed chainring. Shifting seems fine to me. I have not had an all 11-speed setup to compare it to though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

HowardRoark said:


> I'm using a 12 speed chain with the 5100 cassette, 6100 RD, and wolf tooth 12 speed chainring. Shifting seems fine to me. I have not had an all 11-speed setup to compare it to though.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks.

So you have the drop-stop ST Wolftooth chainring and thus chose a Shimano 12spd HG+ chain?

But If I went with drop-stop A chainring (or another brand of 1x), then a 11spd Shimano chain would be the best choice.

Because the cassette will run either 11 or 12 as will the m6100 rd.

Does that sound about right?


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## Look927 (Jan 30, 2021)

My setup 1 x 11  with 12 speed chain, RD & chain ring


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Still no word from Jenson after they replied to my RMA request. Said they were working on it, but that was Feb 2nd.

So I took it off and went full GX Eagle.


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## MFerreira (Feb 8, 2021)

Look927 said:


> My setup 1 x 11  with 12 speed chain, RD & chain ring


Hello Look92,

I see you use the 12s chain.
Do you think it makes a huge diference using a 12 or a 11 speed chain?

I'm asking this because i am using the:
11-51 cassete,
M8100 XT 12s RD,
Shifter XT 11s,
34T Chainring,
HG601 11s chain,
and i'm having a hard time keeping the shifting correct.
There is always noise of either the chain wanting to jump to the next shift or wanting to drop to the previous.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

MFerreira said:


> Hello Look92,
> 
> I see you use the 12s chain.
> Do you think it makes a huge diference using a 12 or a 11 speed chain?
> ...


That's a bummer.

Is your 1x 34T Shimano 12spd chain compatible? That's a place to start reserach if you upgrade.

It should not jump however so is your b-tension dialed in perfect to the RD line and is your hanger straight? I'd start there.

How about your chainline? To test put the chain in the center cog of the cassette and look down the chain. Should be mostly straight on.

How is your shifter cable and housing? Is the cable in all the correct places?


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## MFerreira (Feb 8, 2021)

eakins said:


> That's a bummer.
> 
> Is your 1x 34T Shimano 12spd chain compatible? That's a place to start reserach if you upgrade.
> 
> ...


Hi Eakins,
the Chainring i dont think is 12s compatible.

the B screw is in line with the indication on the RD.

The hanger by the looks of it seems Ok, but didn't mesure with tool(don't have it and all is closed here due to Covid).

The ChainLine seems straight by looking at it from behind on the 6th cog.

The shifter cable is new, the housing is not and i was thinking of switching to a full end to end housing(going through the inside of the frame) of the cable.

I dont know, maybe i'll just stick with it for now the way it is and when possible take it to a mechanic to check the hanger and the chain line with the proper tools for it. 
It is not bad but i'm a perfectionist and i hate earing noises that i know shouldn't be there.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

MFerreira said:


> I dont know, maybe i'll just stick with it for now the way it is and when possible take it to a mechanic to check the hanger and the chain line with the proper tools for it.
> It is not bad but i'm a perfectionist and i hate earing noises that i know shouldn't be there.


For sure get the hanger checked (or buy a tool yourself).

But it might be worth trying a different chain brand after that. Just as a recent example: Drivetrain noise under load - SRAM GX 1x11

I personally had horrible noises when I tried an 11-speed Wippermamn chain, that went away with my usual KMC.


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## Look927 (Jan 30, 2021)

MFerreira said:


> Hello Look92,
> 
> I see you use the 12s chain.
> Do you think it makes a huge diference using a 12 or a 11 speed chain?
> ...


After about 100km+ , the shifting especially poor from 28T-24T .. 15T-13T-11T .. the chain does not want to go into the sprocket ramps at the beginning of the shift and drops into the sprocket with a loud bag after ... shifting from 11 to 51T is good. This is using the 12 speed chain.

I am going to try the HG601 chain and see how it performs


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## Geo77 (Mar 24, 2021)

Hi,

I currently have a 1x11 setup based on a 11x46 sunrace csms8 cassette with 32t front oval from AB.

Just came across the CS-M5100-11 11x51 and I wonder if I have to do lots of modifications to accommodate it.
Current setup:
SL-M9000-R XTR 11 sp shifter

RD-M9000-GS rear 11 sp derailleur 

Big thanks for any advice!


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## dave_rh (Jul 28, 2014)

Geo77 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I currently have a 1x11 setup based on a 11x46 sunrace csms8 cassette with 32t front oval from AB.
> 
> ...


New RD-M5100 and CS-M5100 cassette required.


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## Sunfire (May 18, 2021)

Gday all,

I have a question about going from my deore m6000 2 x 10 to doing a 2 x 11 setup using my deore m6000 28/38t crankset, and using one of the new rear derailleurs m5100--> m8100 and the 11 speed 11-51t cassette. Has anyone tried this, or heard of anyone doing it?

Until this forum thread, I thought the only change I could make was going from 2x10 to 2x11 while keeping my compact crank 11-46 slx/xt read derailleur. But then I saw the jump between 1st and 2nd gear, and then(!) I found this thread! I'm not keen on doing 1x because I'm more of a tourer than a pure MTB rider.


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## adorobis (Mar 23, 2019)

Sunfire said:


> Gday all,
> 
> I have a question about going from my deore m6000 2 x 10 to doing a 2 x 11 setup using my deore m6000 28/38t crankset, and using one of the new rear derailleurs m5100--> m8100 and the 11 speed 11-51t cassette. Has anyone tried this, or heard of anyone doing it?
> 
> Until this forum thread, I thought the only change I could make was going from 2x10 to 2x11 while keeping my compact crank 11-46 slx/xt read derailleur. But then I saw the jump between 1st and 2nd gear, and then(!) I found this thread! I'm not keen on doing 1x because I'm more of a tourer than a pure MTB rider.


I've switched from 3x9 Deore LX M580 to 1x11 Deore 11-51 casette, M5100 derilieur and shifter. Keeping old cranks but putting a single aliexpress (Dackas) narrow wide chainring. As it is on 26" wheels I've put 38 tooth chainring to keep some decent top speed. All working like a charm now  When switching from 2x10 to 2x11 you might face problems with front shifting - it will probably work but might not be as smooth downshifting due to narrower chain and the same distance between chainrings.


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## dave_rh (Jul 28, 2014)

Sunfire said:


> Gday all,
> 
> I have a question about going from my deore m6000 2 x 10 to doing a 2 x 11 setup using my deore m6000 28/38t crankset, and using one of the new rear derailleurs m5100--> m8100 and the 11 speed 11-51t cassette. Has anyone tried this, or heard of anyone doing it?
> 
> Until this forum thread, I thought the only change I could make was going from 2x10 to 2x11 while keeping my compact crank 11-46 slx/xt read derailleur. But then I saw the jump between 1st and 2nd gear, and then(!) I found this thread! I'm not keen on doing 1x because I'm more of a tourer than a pure MTB rider.


If I have read this correctly, you are proposing a 2x11 with 28/38 front rings, a 11-51 cassette and a 12 speed RD?

You may find that the rear derailleur does not have enough chain capacity for that setup. i.e. the chain will be loose when in the 38 - 11 combination and too tight in the 28 - 51 combination


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## Sunfire (May 18, 2021)

Thanks adorabis and Dave.

I suspect I'll have those issues too. 

I might stick with 28/38 front, and go 11-46t sunrace cassette and hope a get the 50% which are durable.

I can't figure out why Shimano made an 11 speed cassette jumping from 46t to 37t for 1st and 2nd gears


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Sunfire said:


> Thanks adorabis and Dave.
> 
> I suspect I'll have those issues too.
> 
> ...


Actually, if you look at gear change percentages the big-seeming gap between 37 and 46 tooth cogs makes more sense. When your using gears that low, a 20%-ish gear percentage change is more useful and less obtrusive than if that big of a gap is lower down in the cruising-gears spread. (mid-cassette) The change between the two biggest cogs on a Sunrace cassette are too low percentage-wise to make much of a difference in effort when you're climbing, and the bigger gaps lower on the cassette can throw your cadence off to the point where you feel "between gears."


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## dave_rh (Jul 28, 2014)

If you want an 11-46 speed cassette with a better jump between cogs I suggest trying the sunrace ones. 

Shimano 2x11 is designed for 11-40 and 11-42 cassettes. It uses the SGS rear derailleur 
Shimano 1x11 is designed for 11-42 and 11-46 cassettes. It uses the GS rear derailleur.

The shimano 11-46 cassette is just a 11-42 with the 42t replaced with a 46t. Its a cheap hack created by shimano when they suddenly realised 4 years too late that no-one (including frame manufacturers) wanted 2x systems.


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## dave_rh (Jul 28, 2014)

dave_rh said:


> If you want an 11-46 speed cassette with a better jump between cogs I suggest trying the sunrace ones.
> 
> Shimano 2x11 is designed for 11-40 and 11-42 cassettes. It uses the SGS rear derailleur
> Shimano 1x11 is designed for 11-42 and 11-46 cassettes. It uses the GS rear derailleur.
> ...


Heres an illustration of the range of 2x11 (28t/38t) 11-42 vs 1x11 (34t 11-51)










link --> https://ritzelrechner.de/?GR=DERS&K...RZ2=11,13,15,18,21,24,28,33,39,45,51&UF2=2215


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## adorobis (Mar 23, 2019)

dave_rh said:


> Heres an illustration of the range of 2x11 (28t/38t) 11-42 vs 1x11 (34t 11-51)


So with one more cog for top speed it will be very well matching. Can't wait for the 1x13 drivetrains!


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## dave_rh (Jul 28, 2014)

adorobis said:


> So with one more cog for top speed it will be very well matching. Can't wait for the 1x13 drivetrains!


the illustration was an 11 speed 11-51 cassette. If you replace it with a 12 speed 10-51 cassette, the top speed is only 1km/h difference at same cadence.


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## adorobis (Mar 23, 2019)

dave_rh said:


> the illustration was an 11 speed 11-51 cassette. If you replace it with a 12 speed 10-51 cassette, the top speed is only 1km/h difference at same cadence.


Ah, right. Actually I've changed my drivetrain from 26-36/11-40 to 34/10-40 and indeed the top speed is even higher while slow gear matches the 2x11 drivetrain


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Been a little while since anyone's posted in here, but I just put one of these on. My Sunrace had at least one cog in the ground and already knew I was going to go the this cassette. Amazing difference! Granted the Sunrace was about three seasons old and was creaking to high-heaven in the top two cogs... But I don't recall it ever shifting this well. This cassette makes shifting feel telepathic. I'm also running it with a 7100 rear derailleur, XT shifter and 11 speed Shimano chain.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Looking for some install advice.
M5100-cs
12 spd XT rd
32T oval 1x
Blur XC frame - vpp

right now chain is cut to quick link + 6 (right side) but FS can be +5 or +6.

should I keep at +6 or shorten to +5?

chain has plenty of slack when the rear suspension goes thru it's range at +6, should not be an issue at +5 too.

this is how it look on the 11t.
is this ok or shorten because I can?


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Thanks!


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

eakins said:


> Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 1937886
> View attachment 1937887


That picture looks like the correct length.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

huckleberry hound said:


> That picture looks like the correct length.


Thanks. I've got another dedicated thread going on this.

+6 does technically work, but since I have so much extra chain before suspension compression tightening and oval 1x variations, I'm going with Shimano's lower recommendation of +5.

I will still have enough chain slack that the chain never fully tightens in the range of use and thus have a slightly shorter chain too.

I would the old rule still applies? Shortest chain as possible w/o a risk of it ever going fully tight and breaking...would yield the crisps shifting?

I'll post pics when done.
Supper stoked to finally get all the pieces together to finally build up my 1X. I started looking in to it and posting here awhile ago.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Large data dump of chain length, RD use and b tension issues here with this cassette.









11/12 spd 1X Shimano chain length with a FS?


Upgrading to a 11-51cs 11spd 12spd- sgs 32T oval Blur XC vpp rear Currently cut at quicklink +6 links (right image) See pics. Plenty of chain slack. Keep as is or cut shorter to +5 (left image)? Thanks




www.mtbr.com


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

eakins said:


> I would the old rule still applies? Shortest chain as possible w/o a risk of it ever going fully tight and breaking...would yield the crisps shifting?


IME, yes.

But in my case I had not choice. My latest FS bikes include mid-travel (140mm) and long travel (163mm) 29ers. In order to avoid chain droop in the smallest cog, I had to shorten my chain as much as possible while in the big cog (at full compression, of course).



eakins said:


> I'll post pics when done.


Please do.
=sParty


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> IME, yes.
> 
> But in my case I had not choice. My latest FS bikes include mid-travel (140mm) and long travel (163mm) 29ers. In order to avoid chain droop in the smallest cog, I had to shorten my chain as much as possible while in the big cog (at full compression, of course).
> 
> ...


I'll ride mine now as is. Seems most need longer chains vs shorter to get proper shifting so I'll see how mine works.

That post above has my final setup and all my pics and discussion but I'll post how mine looks.

This length +6 produced the best shifts.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

eakins said:


> I'll ride mine now as is. Seems most need longer chains vs shorter to get proper shifting so I'll see how mine works.
> 
> That post above has my final setup and all my pics and discussion but I'll post how mine looks.
> 
> This length +6 produced the best shifts.


Looks good from here.
=sParty


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## Lancey (Jul 27, 2021)

huckleberry hound said:


> I was able to finally get my hands on one of these cassettes. As you can see it has very even cog spacing unlike the Shimano 11-46 cassette.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just did the same thing. Put a Shimano 5100 51 tooth cassette on my 11 speed drivetrain along with a 12 speed Shimano XT derailure and XT 12 speed chain. Works like a charm!


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Lancey said:


> Just did the same thing. Put a Shimano 5100 51 tooth cassette on my 11 speed drivetrain along with a 12 speed Shimano XT derailure and XT 12 speed chain. Works like a charm!


You were suppose to use a 11spd Shimano chain.

The 12 speed Shimano chain has a unique shape that is designed only for the 12 speed cassettes.
You will be wearing out the cassette or chain quicker as such.

The 12spd derailleur pulleys accept the 11spd chain however.

my setup is
-11-51 11spd CS
-11spd XT shifter
-11spd XT chain
-12spd XT RD.
-chain cut at +6 links per the manual.
-b-tension set to spec mark on the RD

Per Shimano the 11spd Deore m5100 - RD is "technically" different than the 12spd m7100/8100-RD...but many of us find it works great vs the downspec m-5100-RD.

My bike has the 8100/XT while my wife's has the SLX/7100. Both shift the same.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> Looks good from here.
> =sParty


Thanks. That much chain wrap on the RD was throwing me off vs what was done in the past.
On older systems the chain would be rubbing on the RD pulley arm, but not here.

I had 2 separate mechanics check my bike out on the trail and they said that looks ideal for this 11/12 spd setup.
They found that a the longest chain still in spec was best.


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

So heads on the b-tension.

I could not get mine to spec with the RD b-tension stop block in place.
There was always too much b-tension (too far away from the cassette).
I backed out the screw till there was no more adjustment and the screw was going to come out.

That stop block rotates & thus can be set out of the way. I then have the b-tension screw hit the hanger bracket directly on my frame.

I removed my RD and swung that part so the stop block portion now sits in front of the hanger and out of the way vs sitting on the hanger b-tension stop.

No idea why nor did Shimano, but the tech did say that if it works then use it that way.
He said that was a better solution than grinding the hanger stop so there is less b-tension.
Seems a few others rotated theirs RD stop block to achieve ideal b-tension.

Ideal chain legnth, ideal b-tension setting and a perfectly straight hanger are essential for this setup!


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## chucko58 (Aug 4, 2006)

I had a similar issue with the B tension adjustment on my Chumba XCL (same cassette, Shimano XT M-8100-SGS 12 speed derailleur). I looked in my parts bin and saw that I had a total of 5 derailleur hangers for this bike, 3 of them brand new and never installed. So I had no qualms about taking a file to the hanger. Didn't take long to get it where it needed to be.

The first chain I installed at 114 links long. That is long enough by the old "big cog and chainring + 2 links" rule, and it shifted fine on the trail, but it put the B adjustment lines at a bit of an angle. It looked like it wanted a longer chain. I'm in the habit of rotating a pair of chains on my bikes, so when I got a 2nd chain, I cut it to 116 links. The B adjustment marks on the derailleur wound up right where Shimano said they should. This particular chain (SRAM XX1) came with 118 links. That's too long for this setup; the chain goes slack in the small cog.

You aren't kidding when you say a perfectly straight hanger is essential. I was futzing around on the repair stand and bent the hanger to where it would no longer shift smoothly. Oh yeah, Chumba hangers had a reputation for being super easy to bend, even on 9 speed setups; I'd bent one on the trail before, so I always carried a spare in my pack, and it's why I stocked up before I put the bike in mothballs. The longer cage on the 12 speed derailleur makes an even longer lever arm to bend the hanger. So I filed down the other used hanger, made sure it was as straight as I could by eye, and put it on. Much better. Spent about half an hour trying to get the bent one straight again by eye. A derailleur hanger alignment tool is on my list of things to buy next paycheck.

Not much margin for error with this combination!


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## eakins (Mar 8, 2004)

chucko58 said:


> I had a similar issue with the B tension adjustment on my Chumba XCL (same cassette, Shimano XT M-8100-SGS 12 speed derailleur). I looked in my parts bin and saw that I had a total of 5 derailleur hangers for this bike, 3 of them brand new and never installed. So I had no qualms about taking a file to the hanger. Didn't take long to get it where it needed to be.
> 
> The first chain I installed at 114 links long. That is long enough by the old "big cog and chainring + 2 links" rule, and it shifted fine on the trail, but it put the B adjustment lines at a bit of an angle. It looked like it wanted a longer chain. I'm in the habit of rotating a pair of chains on my bikes, so when I got a 2nd chain, I cut it to 116 links. The B adjustment marks on the derailleur wound up right where Shimano said they should. This particular chain (SRAM XX1) came with 118 links. That's too long for this setup; the chain goes slack in the small cog.
> 
> ...


No extra hangers for me so I was not going to file it down. Swinging that b-tension stop built into the 12spd XT RD only took a sec and and easy fix. The 12spd SLX also has that design but was not needed on my wife's bike. Here b-tension screw worked as expected.


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## Autonomous G (Oct 11, 2008)

Bumping this thread cos I just finished the 1x11 conversion on my 2013 Santa Cruz Solo v1 (27.5 non-boost). 
Lucky to find all the Deore 11-speed "matching" components: 11-51 cassette, Deore RD m5100 derailleur, XT M8000 shifter, HG901-11 chain. Also OneUp 30t NW chainring. Super easy install (thank you Shimano for the "51T line" for B-screw adjustment!).

I was expecting the need to remove some links from the chain, but as this HG901-11 XTR chain came with 116 links, I installed it as-is. I would've liked to shorten it a bit, but 114 links seemed to put the RD kinda close to the limit, so I opted to stay with 116. It shifts fine.

Thanks to everybody on this thread (and all the other 1x conversion threads) for the constant flow of information! Seriously couldn't have done it without y'all.
Also...I wont get into "what is one-link" debate. I now know the answer


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

huckleberry hound said:


> I was able to finally get my hands on one of these cassettes.
> ...
> Just to be clear though if you have a M7000 or M8000 rear derailleur it won't work.
> ...


Good thing I haven't read this before.
I'm using this cassette for over a year now, with a RD-M8000 GS derailleur.
Works fine on my HT.


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## dave_rh (Jul 28, 2014)

thasingletrackmastah said:


> Good thing I haven't read this before.
> I'm using this cassette for over a year now, with a RD-M8000 GS derailleur.
> Works fine on my HT.
> [/QUOTE


The older M7000 and M8000 derailleurs probably might work on hardtails with the 11-51t cassette but would be at their limit and the chainwrap might not be great. They were only really designed for 11-42t cassettes but Shimano engineered enough tolerance so they worked with the hideous 11 speed 11-46 frankencassette.

I would expect that they wouldn't work well at all with an 11-51 and a bike with rear suspension.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

dave_rh said:


> The older M7000 and M8000 derailleurs probably might work on hardtails with the 11-51t cassette but would be at their limit and the chainwrap might not be great. They were only really designed for 11-42t cassettes but Shimano engineered enough tolerance so they worked with the hideous 11 speed 11-46 frankencassette.
> 
> I would expect that they wouldn't work well at all with an 11-51 and a bike with rear suspension.


Had been considering putting a 11-51 Sunrace on my wife's fat bike and stumbled across this thread. It has an SLX 7000 RD. I had all the parts I figured I would need, so I figured I'd give it a shot and report back. I use Wolftooth Roadlink DM's on our gravel bikes with 11-46's, so I kinda figured that would be needed to get the chainwrap needed. 

Replaced the B-link with the Roadlink DM, swapped out the cassette, installed new longer chain, tweak the B screw and voila!!! It works great. I did put the B Link in just to see how the system behaved and I was right.... not enough chainwrap and sluggish shifts in both directions.

There is no way I would use this setup with rear suspension. Chain length is super touchy as it is on a lot of these "unauthorized" setups.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

chucko58 said:


> A derailleur hanger alignment tool is on my list of things to buy next paycheck.
> 
> Not much margin for error with this combination!


I was forced to buy one last year when I did the 12 speed conversion of my dually. It simply would not work. Turns out the hanger was twisted fore aft. Best investment I've ever made. I had to buy the Park at $80 because it was all that was available at the time. But this one reviews as good as the Park and this is what all my friends bought after my hard lesson









Amazon.com

Turns out every hanger in my fleet was bent to one degree or another. It all depends on how "on the edge" your drivetrain is whether it will complain or not, but this is now the very first step any time I work on one.

Oh... a trick I learned when I set up my gravel bike for 46/30f, 11-46r.... if you can use a larger bottom pulley (and top if it will fit) the more slack you can take up in the small cog, giving either a little more forgiveness or making the setup possible at all. I bought a 15T to replace the 11T from KCNC on Amazon and it has worked awesome.


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## wild-fins (Dec 30, 2021)

I have a full suspension Giant Reign that is setup with Deore XT 8000 1x11-speed groupset and 11-42t cassette. I am interested in upgrading the bike to use the M5100 11-51t cassette for extra climbing power.

If I understand the forum feedback correctly, all I'd need is:


reuse existing Deore XT M8000 11-speed shifter
add new 12-speed long cage derailleur => RD6100-SGS or SLX RD7100-SGS or XT RD8100-SGS (or the matching 11-speed RD5100-SGS would work too) that provide the extra reach to the 51T ring
add new CS-M5100 11-51T cassette
add new matching Shimano 5100 105 super narrow CN-HG601-11 chain to replace existing XT 11-speed chain
CN-HG601-11
add new Narrow Wide Chainring (as needed)

Questions:

Would this setup work on a full suspension bike?
Any other items or setup to be aware of?

TIA


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

wild-fins said:


> I have a full suspension Giant Reign that is setup with Deore XT 8000 11-speed groupset and 11-42t cassette. I am interested in upgrading the bike to use the M5100 11-51t cassette for extra climbing power.
> 
> If I understand the forum feedback correctly, all I'd need is:
> 
> ...


I don't know if you need a new chainring or not. Is there something wrong with the old one? You will need an new chain though. Also another option for the derailleur is the M5100 11 speed if you can't find the SLX or XT 12 speed in stock.


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## wild-fins (Dec 30, 2021)

huckleberry hound said:


> I don't know if you need a new chainring or not. Is there something wrong with the old one? You will need an new chain though. Also another option for the derailleur is the M5100 11 speed if you can't find the SLX or XT 12 speed in stock.


Thanks, just updated my post to include your feedback...

Nothing wrong with the existing 32T chainring but just wonder if it needs to be "Narrow Wide" for compatibility?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

You can also use a 12 speed chain on an 11 speed system if you so desire. Some people claim doing so actually improves shifting. 

As for the n/w chainring, all they do hold the chain onto the ring better than a non-n/w ring plus seem to have improved longevity.
=sParty


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

wild-fins said:


> Thanks, just updated my post to include your feedback...
> 
> Nothing wrong with the existing 32T chainring but just wonder if it needs to be "Narrow Wide" for compatibility?


Is you current setup 1x11 or 2x11?


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## wild-fins (Dec 30, 2021)

huckleberry hound said:


> Is you current setup 1x11 or 2x11?


Shimano Deore XT M8000 1x11


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

wild-fins said:


> Shimano Deore XT M8000 1x11


Then it should already have a narrow wide chainring. Shimano's version is slightly different than other companies but I've never had an issue with dropping the chain on mine. There is no reason to change it.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

If you look closely you can see the narrow and wide teeth on the Shimano chainring.


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## wild-fins (Dec 30, 2021)

got it, thanks.









SHIMANO DEORE Rear Derailleur SHIMANO SHADOW RD+ 1x12-speed | SHIMANO BIKE-EU


The all-new SHIMANO DEORE M6100 rear derailleurs deliver advanced shifting performance with decreased tension in the low gear position. Larger 13T pulleys increase efficiency and chain management while compatibility with SHIMANO's new 12-speed cassettes boosts range.




bike.shimano.com





Question: Would the above Shimano Deore RD-M6100-SGS long cage (12-speed 51T max) derailleur a working option as well which seems to benefit all the features and quality of SLX RD-M7100-SGS / XT RD-M8100-SGS?


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

wild-fins said:


> got it, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes it will be fine. I think somewhere in this thread someone posted pics of both the 6100 and 5100 derailleurs and the were virtually identical.


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## MTBiker2477 (Feb 25, 2009)

hello,

i followed this thread to make my upgrade for my ghost amr 5900 MTB, no money for a while for a brand new bike.
780 XT crankset with a one up 32t 104bcd oval ring

ordered a
Deore M5100 R 11s shifter
XT HG701 11s Shimano Chain
Deore RD-M6100 SGS

later the CS M5100 11S 11-51 Cassette.

should I get a HG601 shimano chain and save some money?
if the RD-M5100 is also available do you think its better to just get that one?

i placed the order today, i think I have until tomorrow to call in and make changes.


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## MTBiker2477 (Feb 25, 2009)

MTBiker2477 said:


> hello,
> 
> i followed this thread to make my upgrade for my ghost amr 5900 MTB, no money for a while for a brand new bike.
> 780 XT crankset with a one up 32t 104bcd oval ring
> ...



i changed my order to HG601 chain
and RD-M5100
ordered CS-M5100 as well.


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## 8vasa8 (10 mo ago)

Hello guys,

I have problem with SHIMANO CS-M5100-11, 11-51T. Look at this please: Videa 1, video 2, video 3. I went to service they tried if cassete isn't loose (it's not) and said I shoud not worry about it. This is my bike, I have everything original.

Thanks


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

8vasa8 said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I have problem with SHIMANO CS-M5100-11, 11-51T. Look at this please: Videa 1, video 2, video 3. I went to service they tried if cassete isn't loose (it's not) and said I shoud not worry about it. This is my bike, I have everything original.
> 
> Thanks


The problem is in the hub, not in the cassette.
May be poor manufacturing tolerances.
If the bike shifts okay, you're probably good to go.
If the wobble negatively affects shifting, then go after the hub (warranty, repair, etc.)
=sParty


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## 8vasa8 (10 mo ago)

Sparticus said:


> The problem is in the hub, not in the cassette.
> May be poor manufacturing tolerances.
> If the bike shifts okay, you're probably good to go.
> If the wobble negatively affects shifting, then go after the hub (warranty, repair, etc.)
> =sParty


Thanks for reply, my hub is: SHIMANO FH-MT400-B, 32H, CENTER LOCK, 12x148mm THRU Type AXLE. 

What can I do about it? Can you recommend something?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

8vasa8 said:


> Thanks for reply, my hub is: SHIMANO FH-MT400-B, 32H, CENTER LOCK, 12x148mm THRU Type AXLE.
> 
> What can I do about it? Can you recommend something?


How is the wobble negatively affecting performance?
Inexpensive rear hubs often have a bit of wobble -- that doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong or that they're bad.
That wobble may be within that particular hub's manufacturing tolerance.
As I said before, if it's not causing shifting problems, excessive drivetrain noise, etc. you're probably best to ignore it and ride happy.
No, I cannot recommend anything beyond going to the bike shop so an experienced tech can advise you if the hub is out of tolerance.
=sParty


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## Harge33 (Mar 10, 2021)

huckleberry hound said:


> I was able to finally get my hands on one of these cassettes. As you can see it has very even cog spacing unlike the Shimano 11-46 cassette.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have an XTR M9000 series drivetrain on my 2016 S-works Stumpjumper 6Fattie which I'm running 29er wheels on currently. The rear mech is an XTR RD-M9000 with an SG cage. I can confirm that despite the max low cog spec of this derailleur being 46 teeth, since installing a CS-M5100 cassette (11-51 teeth) into this set-up, shifting has been spot on up and down the cassette. After winding in the B-screw most of the way (approximately 3 threads still showing), the M9000 rear derailleur sports an 8mm gap between jockey wheel and the 51 tooth cog (8-9mm B-gap is advised by Shimano when using a cassette with >42 tooth low cog). The rear derailleur is connected conventionally to the Stumpy's stock hangar. Shifting has been completely normal--smooth, quick and quiet despite the 5 tooth overage at the low cog. The XTR derailleur handles it very well, and I expect the XT, M8000 and SLX, M7000 to perform normally in this set-up as well.
The progression of this M5100 cassette is nicely balanced, and seems to have a lower gearing feel to it through the middle compared to the 11-46.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Harge33 said:


> I have an XTR M9000 series drivetrain on my 2016 S-works Stumpjumper 6Fattie which I'm running 29er wheels on currently. The rear mech is an XTR RD-M9000 with an SG cage. I can confirm that despite the max low cog spec of this derailleur being 46 teeth, since installing a CS-M5100 cassette (11-51 teeth) into this set-up, shifting has been spot on up and down the cassette. After winding in the B-screw most of the way (approximately 3 threads still showing), the M9000 rear derailleur sports an 8mm gap between jockey wheel and the 51 tooth cog (8-9mm B-gap is advised by Shimano when using a cassette with >42 tooth low cog). The rear derailleur is connected conventionally to the Stumpy's stock hangar. Shifting has been completely normal--smooth, quick and quiet despite the 5 tooth overage at the low cog. The XTR derailleur handles it very well, and I expect the XT, M8000 and SLX, M7000 to perform normally in this set-up as well.
> The progression of this M5100 cassette is nicely balanced, and seems to have a lower gearing feel to it through the middle compared to the 11-46.


FWIW I destroyed a Shimano XT M8000 11 spd der (designed for 46t max cog) while using it with a Sunrace 11-50t cassette. The XT M8000 11 spd der actually completed shifts into and out of the 50t cog and did so well enough that I believed everything would be hunky dory but eventually, after several months of hard use, shifting began to degrade. While troubleshooting, I discovered that the stress on that der while shifting into the larger cogs was terrific and the pivots had developed slop to the point that the der was no longer functional.
I pitched it and bought a 12 speed Shimano der -- problem solved.
Later yet, when Shimano introduced the CS-M5100 11-51t cassette, I switched from the Sunrace 11-50t cassette to that.
All good shifting since.
I now have an identical system (Shimano 12 spd der w/CS-M5100 11-51t cassette) on a second bike as well.
=sParty


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## Harge33 (Mar 10, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> FWIW I destroyed a Shimano XT M8000 11 spd der (designed for 46t max cog) while using it with a Sunrace 11-50t cassette. The XT M8000 11 spd der actually completed shifts into and out of the 50t cog and did so well enough that I believed everything would be hunky dory but eventually, after several months of hard use, shifting began to degrade. While troubleshooting, I discovered that the stress on that der while shifting into the larger cogs was terrific and the pivots had developed slop to the point that the der was no longer functional.
> I pitched it and bought a 12 speed Shimano der -- problem solved.
> Later yet, when Shimano introduced the CS-M5100 11-51t cassette, I switched from the Sunrace 11-50t cassette to that.
> All good shifting since.
> ...


Thanks for the heads up. I really don't want to thrash my XTR derailleur, so I may back off on the 11-51 and use the 11-46 again. I was tickled when I tried it on the stand and it made the shift without hesitation. While Shimano specs may be conservative, i did thing a 5 tooth difference in max low cog size was pushing it a bit. It's been good shifting on the trail as well, but I'm not willing to risk the XTR derailleur. I've got Deore-level income and have XTR because it was on sale (still near 2x the XT M8000 price) and I built the bike from the frame-set up. 
Thanks again for sharing


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## dkyo (Nov 4, 2021)

since many people seem to have a problem with this cassette getting loose after a while, has anyone else tried a different lockring?

I found this on another forum, only posted a few days ago. Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it. - Cycling UK Forum

the lockring for the 6100, 7100, 8100 is much longer, maybe an explaination why these cassettes from the same generation do not have the issue of the 5100.


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

I added a 1.5mm spacer to mine and it came loose again, so perhaps I should have tried a 2mm. I solved the problem with mine by going back to singlespeed. It seems that I long for a gears whenever I go on group rides, so I give it a try only to ditch them after a few rides. I have an XT 9sp, SLX10, and now the Deore 11-51 setting on the shelf.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

This is what I did when I was using this cassette. Shimano M5100 11-51 11 speed Cassette


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## dkyo (Nov 4, 2021)

Yeah I saw that when I went through the thread. Shimano is usually known that their drivetrain parts work together, it shouldn't come to a point where you, as a customer, are forced to do drastic steps to fix their components. 

Even in the case that the delivered lockring might be too short, they could easily fix that. 
There are so many negative reviews about this particular cassette by now, it makes me stay away from buying it.


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## dynamiccoins (Oct 7, 2012)

Anyone after an rd-m5100 in the UK, they're reduced to 20 quid at Chain Reaction at time of writing 









Shimano M5100 Deore 11Sp Shadow+ Rear Derailleur | Chain Reaction


Shimano M5100 Deore 11Sp Shadow+ Rear Derailleur - Lowest Prices and FREE shipping available from The World's largest online bike store - Chain Reaction Cycles



www.chainreactioncycles.com


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

dkyo said:


> since many people seem to have a problem with this cassette getting loose after a while, has anyone else tried a different lockring?
> 
> I found this on another forum, only posted a few days ago. Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it. - Cycling UK Forum
> 
> the lockring for the 6100, 7100, 8100 is much longer, maybe an explaination why these cassettes from the same generation do not have the issue of the 5100.


Just checking in to see if this issue is still fixed for you with the different lockring?


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## bayposter (Aug 19, 2020)

Love MTB has a new video out on the 5100. He said there's a third part coming as well. Here are part I and part II.


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## bayposter (Aug 19, 2020)

I wonder if the Shimano M5100 11-speed cassette provides a slightly better chainline than one of the 12-speed cassettes (M6100, M7100, M8100). That would be true if the M5100 was narrower.

Has any one measured the width of the M5100 and compared it to one of the 12-speed cassettes?


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## bayposter (Aug 19, 2020)

bayposter said:


> Has any one measured the width of the M5100 and compared it to one of the 12-speed cassettes?


Poking around the internet, here's what I found for the stack-width of Shimano cassettes (measured from cog tip to cog tip):

Shimano 11-speed cassette is 39.00 mm wide
Shimano 12-speed cassette is 39.05mm wide
See this article.

I'm not sure about the M5100, though. Doesn't it require the thinner CN-HG601 chain? So maybe it's a little narrower?


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

bayposter said:


> Poking around the internet, here's what I found for the stack-width of Shimano cassettes (measured from cog tip to cog tip):
> 
> Shimano 11-speed cassette is 39.00 mm wide
> Shimano 12-speed cassette is 39.05mm wide
> ...


No it uses standard 11 speed chains of your choice.


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## nathanr (Jul 6, 2014)

Anyone knows if SRAM x01 11-speed derailleur will work with this cassette? Just the derailleur. Will use archer shifter, not the sram one.


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

nathanr said:


> Anyone knows if SRAM x01 11-speed derailleur will work with this cassette? Just the derailleur. Will use archer shifter, not the sram one.


With a combination of smaller upper and larger lower pulley wheels plus 5mm longer B-screw, yes. Or buy a Garbaruk derailleur cage.

Here


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## nathanr (Jul 6, 2014)

rete said:


> With a combination of smaller upper and larger lower pulley wheels plus 5mm longer B-screw, yes. Or buy a Garbaruk derailleur cage.
> 
> Here


Thanks! Looks interesting. So does this mean I can extend the 11 speed mech's range to a 12 speed cassette then?


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

nathanr said:


> Thanks! Looks interesting. So does this mean I can extend the 11 speed mech's range to a 12 speed cassette then?


Practically yes, see comments halfway down in this thread (ignore the German who'se like "I downvoted because manufacturer says you can't") and this thread. The first link also has a video from LoveMTB embedded and he's done all sorts of Shimano vs SRAM cross compatibility tests on his YouTube channel.

Same pull ratio between SRAM 11sp and 12sp, and cross-brand between Shimano 10sp, 11sp and 12sp vs SRAM 11sp and 12sp.


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