# Why no allowances for low-speed throttles?



## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Something I've been curious about with the various e-bike classes: why is the inclusion of a throttle an all or nothing thing?

A low-speed "get me home" throttle setting seems like it would be a huge safety feature feature for people to be able to make their way back to a trailhead in the event that an injury or medical emergency leaves them unable to continue pedaling.

If the threshold is low enough (like somewhere in the 3-5mph range), there wouldn't be much incentive for people to use it for "fun".


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Gotta be a smooth trail if you can be incapable of pedaling, but capable of riding at 3-5mph.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

dysfunction said:


> Gotta be a smooth trail if you can be incapable of pedaling, but capable of riding at 3-5mph.


Many e-bikes will only ever be ridden on pavement.

An example: my dad realized he was having a heart attack a few years ago while on a ride around the neighborhood -- in the time that he sat around waiting for someone to pick him up, he could have sat on the bike and started riding directly towards the hospital.

On trails, I'm imagining something like a rider with a broken leg / knee / ankle -- able to grab onto the bars, able to apply some pressure to 1 leg, but unable to apply pressure on the other leg.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

You want a throttle for “safety factor”… riiiiight.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

That's a class 2 and real bike manufacturers will never ever make one. Chinese bikes are your best bet.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

TimTucker said:


> On trails, I'm imagining something like a rider with a broken leg / knee / ankle -- able to grab onto the bars, able to apply some pressure to 1 leg, but unable to apply pressure on the other leg.


yea, and that'd have to be pretty smooth. A mobile phone would work better for scenario #1.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> You want a throttle for “safety factor”… riiiiight.


I don't even have an e-bike at this point.

The thought crossed my mind as I've been trying to talk my dad into getting one and came across the two conflicting realizations:

Having a throttle to fall back on would make things safer
Any of the local trails or multi-use paths that allow e-bikes are limited to Class 1


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

alexbn921 said:


> That's a class 2 and real bike manufacturers will never ever make one. Chinese bikes are your best bet.


20mph throttle is far more than would be needed for something like this, though.

Even 20mph pedal assist is IMO more than most people need for trail use.

I'd be all for a "Class 0" that caps overall top speed for pedal assist ~8-10mph & throttle at half speed.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

TimTucker said:


> 20mph throttle is far more than would be needed for something like this, though.
> 
> Even 20mph pedal assist is IMO more than most people need for trail use.
> 
> I'd be all for a "Class 0" that caps overall top speed for pedal assist ~8-10mph & throttle at half speed.


Not how it works. Europe has strict laws and only the Chinese don't care.

Again it will never happen. 

You can build your own if you want it.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

TimTucker said:


> I'd be all for a "Class 0" that caps overall top speed for pedal assist ~8-10mph & throttle at half speed.


If we were more honest about human power equivalence, this would be a lot closer. 8 to 10 mph would be plenty to match what a lot of the geezers claim about their ambitions "same as if I was pedaling".


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Carl Mega said:


> If we were more honest about human power equivalence, this would be a lot closer. 8 to 10 mph would be plenty to match what a lot of the geezers claim about their ambitions "same as if I was pedaling".


20mph is really only "equivalent" if you're assuming the reference point is someone with a reasonable level of fitness on a carbon road bike on level pavement.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

dysfunction said:


> Gotta be a smooth trail if you can be incapable of pedaling, but capable of riding at 3-5mph.


No doubt. At the end of July, when I rode back downhill .8 miles to meet the paramedics with my knee-cap showing it was pretty sketch, as I had to have my injured leg (with a bandage) outstretched, I couldn't easily bend it, the trail had to be smooth, but had some rocks and roots and those were very difficult to get over in that circumstance. Basically anything other than totally smooth and it was not very practical. I had to walk across a rock-waterfall, one that when I'm feeling spicy I'll ride, but that waterfall has serious consequences if you fall. Even if I wanted to pedal, it wasn't practical. An emergency mode might make sense, but that could also endanger other trail users and make the situation worse, or worse for yourself. I'm not sure that is "safer" for everyone. Just handling the bike without being able to stand for any tech was hard enough.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

TimTucker said:


> 20mph is really only "equivalent" if you're assuming the reference point is someone with a reasonable level of fitness on a carbon road bike on level pavement.


As someone who has competed in more than a few races, some of which approach road racing with strategy and technique, sustaining an average up around 20mph is absolutely mad-flying on a mountain bike. Keegan Swenson, pro, won the Whiskey Off Road 50 mile this year with an average speed of 15.4mph. 

We like to boast about speeds, but even doing a local enduro race on jump-line and DH trails my max speed was 27mph, that's speed to clear big double jumps, etc. Sure, you can go faster, I went 55 in a DH race on my fat-bike straight down at the ski-resort in the winter, but point is 20mph on dirt is damn fast. It ain't slow by any measure.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

If you're having a heart attack I don't know if it's a swell idea to try to ride your bike to the hospital... For a few reasons.


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## Keski (Aug 23, 2004)

Wouldn't the walk assist feature on many ebikes accomplish this?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

My guess is having that throttle would have made the class 1 a lot more difficult to "sell" allowing them on trails.

Yeah, what is the deal with walk assist? Is that still around?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Walk is on almost all bikes and only goes 1.5mph. plus it cuts off all pedal assist with delay.


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