# Homebrewed Components Alternative



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Bring 'em on!!:thumbsup:

The MRP spiderless looks nice to me. A buddy just got one and loves it..

No..I don't work for MRP..

Multiple colorways soon too..


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

I need one for some X9 cranks... where do we order them? 

And do they have 34T yet?


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Link please? I need one for SRAM AKA cranks in 32t.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Pro Bike Supply among others... Apparently they are making a ton of them to send to suppliers soon...heard thru the grapevine

Not sure about the 34t, but I am sure if there is a demand for it, they will make it..

Give them a call..


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

SS Hack said:


> Link please? I need one for SRAM AKA cranks in 32t.


MRP BLING RING Direct Mount Chainring - Pro Bike Supply

search MRP Bling Ring


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

Ah, great. Thanks for the heads-up. 

I wonder if QBP or BTI are stocking any. Any idea?


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Does the price seem really high? Are they made in the USA?


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## Roger that (Mar 4, 2012)

Todd at Black Cat was selling these RCR direct-mount chainrings about a year or so ago. Not sure if they are still available or not...










Disclaimer: I've never used one of these ring so I can't vouch for them. They look nice though.


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

I have an order in for a B Cat as we speak, so that would be convenient. Thanks for the info.


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## fryed_1 (Nov 8, 2010)

That's awesome if all you ever want to use is sram...


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

Yep, it is.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

rydbyk said:


> .Multiple colorways soon too..


Any more info on this? I was going to order a Bling Ring soon, but if they have colors coming out soon, I'll wait.


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## Ooklathemok (Dec 5, 2011)

Renthal also makes rings, although no spiderless.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Well, I know folks have used Boone and Blackspire in the past with good success though I have never really seen places to order either of them. You can also look into Rotor Q as they also have an SS ring though it is an elliptical shape. 

If you have a M960 crank you are very limited however due to the odd 102 bcd but I believe Blackspire makes one that fits. (unfortunately, this is what I have so the HBC is the best option at the moment as far as an SS ring goes-not because of customer service)


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Surly also makes SS rings and I suspect you can get rings from Truvative as well (I mean they put them on the Stylo cranks right)


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

Salsa


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## fryed_1 (Nov 8, 2010)

djrez4 said:


> Salsa


I would have a little trouble fitting those on spiderless crank arms. Duct tape and bubble gum maybe?


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Probably however, the OP didn't state that he wanted to only see spiderless alternatives.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Anyone know what the chainring (non-spiderless) size needed for the SRAM S1400 crankset? I know it's a 4 bolt. I'd like to look into the Salsa rings as a possible holdover for an HBC if I don't go with an MRP, especially since the Salsa comes in red.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Yep, I would have been all over the Salsa's myself but the M960 while a great cranks, has a stupid frickn bcd size! While it might be available in black or silver, it is only available in red in the 104 bcd.


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## irv_usc (Mar 16, 2011)

There's a big thread in the drivetrain forum about the bling rings. Apparently there's some issue with the first batch being out of round. I figure that would be a problem with SSers


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

I know it would be for me (SSr) as you end up with tight/loose spots. They say it is minute but you can still see it when you rotate the pedals, at least that has been my experience anyway. I actually have a little bit of that going on right now with my HBC ring and Surly combo. I thought maybe it was the new Surly cog that I have so I slapped my White Industries set up back on and still have the issue. 

One thing you can do is mark how you mount it when you first put it on. If you have a tight spot, you can try to take it off and rotate it to see if that helps even things out. I have heard that it can also be the actual bolt locations on the crank as well. None the less, I have been doing fine with it but I certainly would not want to buy one knowing that this is an issue.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

irv_usc said:


> There's a big thread in the drivetrain forum about the bling rings. Apparently there's some issue with the first batch being out of round. I figure that would be a problem with SSers


That's why they were selling them at a discount and there was a disclaimer on the MRP site stating the rings were out of round and that they could possibly be an issue for SS'ers but not so much for geared bikes.


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

I heard about the MRP problems from a friend yesterday. He's running an MRP and just ordered a new RCR ring today. 

By the way, if your ring has bolts, you can try to set the cranks at the tight spot, then loosen all of the chainring bolts, allowing the chainring to scoot over ever-so-slightly, then tighten the bolts again. Most rings have low enough tolerances at the bolt mounts that you can get .5 mm or more by doing this.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Damn, you are a genius! I seriously didn't even think about trying that!


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

Hi guys,

Pro Bike Supply does not have the rings in-stock, be warned. There has been at this point (6/6/2012) only one production run, and that production had the imperfection mentioned (_ie_ probably not suitable for single-speed use).

We are currently producing more and adding 34t and 36t as well. I don't have an ETA. They are being machined right now.

We have no plans to make the Bling Ring in any other colors.

Cheers :thumbsup:


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

NoahColorado said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Pro Bike Supply does not have the rings in-stock, be warned. There has been at this point (6/6/2012) only one production run, and that production had the imperfection mentioned (_ie_ probably not suitable for single-speed use).
> 
> ...


Oops...I stand corrected.. apologies. Seems like you will be missing out on a ton of biz by not offering of "bling" colors...

Why not ano them for us??

Go ahead and check in to the Homebrewed Components thread and see what we are having to deal with. Help!!


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

At least in the X0 blue, gold, and red... please.


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

Nubster said:


> Anyone know what the chainring (non-spiderless) size needed for the SRAM S1400 crankset?


My big chainring says "120 BCD" on it...


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## 120 (Nov 20, 2009)

djrez4 said:


> Salsa


Kinda disappointed with my Salsa ring. I installed this late march, probably 350 or so miles on it. Not sure how well this pic will show:


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## gsxrawd (Apr 2, 2004)

Praxis Works


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

The Praxis Works rings are really nice. Picked up a few at Sea Otter for cheap earlier this year. Dig 'em.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Tyrone Shoelaces said:


> The Praxis Works rings are really nice. Picked up a few at Sea Otter for cheap earlier this year. Dig 'em.


Spiderless in less than a 32t would be great!! Looks nice..


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## zaskaranddriver (Oct 14, 2009)

Nubster said:


> Anyone know what the chainring (non-spiderless) size needed for the SRAM S1400 crankset?


Yeah, it's 80 and 120 mm bcd.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

rob1035 said:


> My big chainring says "120 BCD" on it...





zaskaranddriver said:


> Yeah, it's 80 and 120 mm bcd.


Thanks! I just got mine today and it's the same. I saw a couple sites selling them saying that they were 104 and most of the others said 120, so I wasn't sure. Kinda sux that they are 120 though, nothing out there for that size.


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

$40 and arrived in 36 hours.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Velokid1 said:


> $40 and arrived in 36 hours.


OK, your teaser worked ...

Where and how and do they have 32t? Do you like it?


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

They're perfectly round, no problems there. And yes, they are sitting on a small batch of both 32T and 34T, black like mine and also silver.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Velokid1 said:


> They're perfectly round, no problems there. And yes, they are sitting on a small batch of both 32T and 34T, black like mine and also silver.


Awesome! Any word on a 30t??


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

He hasn't done 30T yet but I bet he'd be open to it. 

This is RCR Fabrications, a metal fab outfit in Santa Cruz. Just google the shop # and call Josh. They do all of Todd's (Black Cat) drop-outs, etc. Todd asked them to do a small run of chainrings last year. They have just a handful left and I believe he's selling the remainder for $40-50 each. When he does the next production run, there will be a price adjustment. 

The whole RCR crew is top-shelf. Really friendly and competent folks.


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

Velokid1 said:


> They're perfectly round, no problems there. And yes, they are sitting on a small batch of both 32T and 34T, black like mine and also silver.


Did you mount that ring yet? We're discovering a bit of eccentricity to the SRAM splined interface (so even if the ring is "round" it'll look "off" once mounted and spun).


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

Mine is mounted to the cranks as you can see, but it's not on my bike yet. A friend of mine ordered a ring at the same time and mounted it to his new FORM SS and it's perfectly round, works flawlessly. I wonder if the SRAM eccentricity is consistent from one set of cranks to the next, or if one set will have the "wobble" to it and the next won't. Do you know? First I've heard of it.


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## agentorangemen (Aug 5, 2005)

120 said:


> Kinda disappointed with my Salsa ring. I installed this late march, probably 350 or so miles on it. Not sure how well this pic will show:
> View attachment 702283


Salsa 94 mm 30t set up single speed with a 19t rear and new 8 speed chain. Died in less than 10 2-hour non-epic rides. Salsa's warranty response,"Single speed 29ers are hard on chainrings." Replaced with a Surly stainless steel.

I won't run the Salsa rings again, even if they come in pretty colors.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

agentorangemen said:


> Salsa 94 mm 30t set up single speed with a 19t rear and new 8 speed chain. Died in less than 10 2-hour non-epic rides. Salsa's warranty response,"Single speed 29ers are hard on chainrings." Replaced with a Surly stainless steel.
> 
> I won't run the Salsa rings again, even if they come in pretty colors.


I would have expected better from Salsa.


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

Sorry to turbo-post in this thread...

I've had the same experience with Salsa rings. I went through 2-3 of them before I figured out that it was them and not me (I _really _wanted to believe that the teeth were splaying out because of the sheer power I produce).

I would get about 3 months out of a Salsa ring before the teeth would get so smashed/splayed that they would catch inside the chain links as the chain rolled through.

They are junk. Salsa knows it and doesn't fix it. Says a lot about Salsa.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

Velokid1 said:


> The whole RCR crew is top-shelf. Really friendly and competent folks.


You are awesome. Thank you. Finally looking forward to getting a Sram spiderless ring and not have to wait 4 months + . Spoke to a real person and they said it will be in the mail same day. :thumbsup:


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

I am so happy to see that there are quite a few alternatives out there at this point. It sucks that there aren't much of any for the 102 bcd M960 but I suspect at some point, I will just end up getting another crank. Then again, i still haven't flipped my HBC over yet so I suspect I have some time!


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*Right on!*



jetboy23 said:


> You are awesome. Thank you. Finally looking forward to getting a Sram spiderless ring and not have to wait 4 months + . Spoke to a real person and they said it will be in the mail same day. :thumbsup:


Sounds like cutting edge business practices at this point doesn't it...hahaha. Perhaps you can even expect them to deliver it and not cancel your order w/o even asking AND after waiting 2 months and receiving zero emails

Post up and let us know your thoughts on the chainring please.

IMO, we really need to educate any company capable of producing top notch chainrings that they stand to make some $$$ by taking out HBC.

I know that sounds mean, but that guy has had plenty of time to rectify the BS he pulls and just doesn't seem to care enough to change anything. Oh well...biz is biz..

Peace

Oh..and thanks V-kid. Much appreciated:thumbsup:


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

NoahColorado said:


> Did you mount that ring yet? We're discovering a bit of eccentricity to the SRAM splined interface (so even if the ring is "round" it'll look "off" once mounted and spun).


I'm curious, MRP is also making Sram spiderless rings along with HBC and RCR. This eccentricity would seem to be evident on all spiderless rings, right? Or, what has MRP done to resolve the eccentricity you are finding with these cranks that the other offerings aren't doing?


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

So the ones from Santa Cruz are round and mount on SRAM ok?


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## fatguy1 (Feb 11, 2010)

all i use is surly stainless rings.....i like homebrewed but dont like waiting for parts. i loves me some BLING and a shiny polished surly does the job quite well......


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## zaskaranddriver (Oct 14, 2009)

rydbyk said:


> Sounds like cutting edge business practices at this point doesn't it...hahaha. Perhaps you can even expect them to deliver it and not cancel your order w/o even asking AND after waiting 2 months and receiving zero emails
> 
> IMO, we really need to educate any company capable of producing top notch chainrings that they stand to make some $$$ by taking out HBC.
> 
> I know that sounds mean, but that guy has had plenty of time to rectify the BS he pulls and just doesn't seem to care enough to change anything. Oh well...biz is biz..


I think a little competition in this market segment will do well for HBC--relieving some of the pressure (both Dan's and his customers'!).


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

Update with initial impressions about the RCR rings made for Black Cat-

These aren't spaced at all. This pushed my cog closer to the dropout about 2-4mm. I believe i calculated this out to a 55mm chainline from center of my BB. Might be an issue for ppl running tensioners or freewheels.

They fit nice on the Sram spline. A better fit than even the spider that i removed. I spun the cranks to look for a wobble at the teeth and the black center ring. No wobble at all. These appear perfectly round on my cranks. 

These have pretty skinny teeth. I'm not sure how long they will last being aluminum. I am also concerned with the tooth spacing. Top & bottom (12 and 6 o'clock) you can tell the teeth are engaging the chain and i get a tight chainline. At 3 o'clock, the chain is noticeably loose. This means it is only engaged to the chain on the top and bottom of the chainring teeth and not around the entire front teeth (say 1-5 o'clock). I can also notice noise when i spin the crank. I think this is from the teeth grabbing the chain only on the top and bottom and not evenly around the entire front side of the ring.

I have not ridden these yet, but, my initial impression is that these rings aren't going to last long with this much "play". If RCR thinks about making a new run, they will need to fix this issue. Although, i did compare the teeth and spacing to a new Truvativ 32t SS ring and they appeared to be nearly identical. Maybe just wider teeth would fix slop with more engagement area. 

Just thought i should share so the community can make an informed decision before ordering.


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

Much appreciated jetboy. Keep us posted. I won't have mine on a bike for another couple months. My buddy rode his 200 miles this past week and no complaints yet.


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

Looks like Niner is prototyping titanium cogs:
Spied! Titanium Niner Singlespeed Cogs - Bike Rumor


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

Tyrone Shoelaces said:


> Looks like Niner is prototyping titanium cogs:
> Spied! Titanium Niner Singlespeed Cogs - Bike Rumor


That would resolve the super soft issues they have with the aluminum cogalicious version. Hard do drop a large bill on a cog that may be swapped for different sizes depending on the trail.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

They look nice! I do agree though, at about $100 for a cog I think I would still go with a King and call it a day. My Surly has been holding up well and I haven't received my HBC alu version yet to compare things.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

1SPD said:


> They look nice! I do agree though, at about $100 for a cog I think I would still go with a King and call it a day. My Surly has been holding up well and I haven't received my HBC alu version yet to compare things.


Looking forward to hearing about your HBC cog in May 2013.. Lets hope he sends you the correct item ordered


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

I know right! Well, the Surly is holding up well but its a 17t. My plan was to have a 16-19 set up but so far I haven't bought any new ones. I'll probably get another Surly for the 16 and 19 but will probably end up replacing the 17 with a King and probably the same for the HBC (if it doesn't come in by the end of next month). The King is pretty light and is stainless and costs about $55 but best of all are readily available! I just don't want to go have my buddies shop order me the King only to have the HBC show up the next day. Then again, I could probably sell the HBC and make a profit since I would actually ship it!


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

Living in the mountains and running a 34x21 makes finding nifty cogs difficult. Anyone know why Chris King doesn't make anything larger than a 20T?


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

Maybe the weight? Maybe wear on a 21t on aluminum is enough to not need the stainless? Maybe because 32x20 is near identical to 34x21? 

With a combination of chainring and cog you should be able to replicate the gain ratio in multiple possibilities. Now, gain ratios having the same chain length for a magic gear is another story.


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

A few posts back in this thread, I talked about how I was blowing out Salsa rings in just a few months. I noticed the next day that my current ring, which I've been riding for a year now, is actually a Salsa. I didn't think it was. The difference is that it's a 34T, whereas I always rode a 32T before. 

So that's the primary reason I stick with the 34x21 vs the 32x20 I always ran. Drivetrain wear is dramatically reduced. 

Most people here in Prescott ride a 32x20 and a 34x21 is just a tiny bit taller.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Velokid1 said:


> A few posts back in this thread, I talked about how I was blowing out Salsa rings in just a few months. I noticed the next day that my current ring, which I've been riding for a year now, is actually a Salsa. I didn't think it was. The difference is that it's a 34T, whereas I always rode a 32T before.
> 
> So that's the primary reason I stick with the 34x21 vs the 32x20 I always ran. Drivetrain wear is dramatically reduced.
> 
> Most people here in Prescott ride a 32x20 and a 34x21 is just a tiny bit taller.


Maybe you mentioned it, but why not drop the front chainring down to less than 32? More wear? How so? Just wondering...please inform


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

The forces exerted on a drivetrain are spread out over a larger area when chainrings and cogs are larger.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Velokid1 said:


> The forces exerted on a drivetrain are spread out over a larger area when chainrings and cogs are larger.


Gotcha. I do see that most BMX streetstyle guys seem to run tiny front and rear chain ring and cog mixes though... Hmm..

A guy I know said they do this because there are essentially less teeth to break and less chain links to break and it is lighter...

Which is better?


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Well, having been into the bmx scene for a while I can tell you that it also provides more clearance when doing grinds and what not. 

None the less, you will experience more and faster drive train wear with a "micro drive" set up than a more conventional 32:18 set up. It is however lighter and looks pretty cool. But a bmx chainwheel is only about $30! Chains are only about $20! And Drivers for their free hubs are pretty cheap as well unless you go with the Profile ti version. The mtb scene seems to charge alot more for these same parts and we are riding considerably further distances than the average bmx'r.

In comparison, a top of the line rear der for a mtb (lets say an XTR) is about $200-240! A new Campy Super Record EPS 11 spd rear der is about $900! Just ridiculous! (I want one though!)


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Do BMX drive trains see the forces that our bikes do though? I mean BMX seems like short bursts of power that only last a very short time whereas our bikes see more sustained strain because of the length and steepness of some of the climbs we do. I could be completely off base though...I've never ridden BMX so someone correct me if I'm way off.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

I think bmx runs more steel rings compared to our aluminum rings. That will increase the lifespan of the smaller drivetrain. We wouldn't worry so much about wear if we had more Ti options.


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## zaskaranddriver (Oct 14, 2009)

Velokid1 said:


> The forces exerted on a drivetrain are spread out over a larger area when chainrings and cogs are larger.


Perhaps more significant is the chain carries less tension when chainrings and cogs are larger.


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## Mojo Man (Sep 1, 2007)

gsxrawd said:


> Praxis Works


Sweet set up

What style XTR cranks are those? M985? or M980?
Are they a 104 BC?

Mojo


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*Singleworks Cog*

FYI...

Posted on another thread. Steel. Affordable. Apparently pretty nice quality..


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## rcrfab (Jun 14, 2012)

*RCR rings*



jetboy23 said:


> Update with initial impressions about the RCR rings made for Black Cat-
> 
> These aren't spaced at all. This pushed my cog closer to the dropout about 2-4mm. I believe i calculated this out to a 55mm chainline from center of my BB. Might be an issue for ppl running tensioners or freewheels.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for taking the time to write all this down! It's invaluable information to note when we are thinking about the next production run. After sending a few of these out the only complaints have come from people riding 8 speed chains. People are pretty stoked otherwise! As I have said before, these were developed for the handmade show in Austin a couple of years ago and we are just now really thinking about doing another run. We just want everybody to be satisfied with their purchase and get their product FAST. We would also like any suggestions for budget minded riders on choice setups for spiderless rings! I can't even afford to run these on my own bike! They are 7075 Aluminum so they should last quite a while. With regards to tooth thickness, we found that .082" seemed to work the best with the geometry. I believe I copied this from another ring that I had laying around the shop. The width was probably snagged from the same ring. I plan on keeping everybody posted as I get better at this forum stuff. You have to be on it to avoid getting torched! Thanks for the help!


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

rcrfab said:


> Thank you so much for taking the time to write all this down! It's invaluable information to note when we are thinking about the next production run. After sending a few of these out the only complaints have come from people riding 8 speed chains. People are pretty stoked otherwise! As I have said before, these were developed for the handmade show in Austin a couple of years ago and we are just now really thinking about doing another run. We just want everybody to be satisfied with their purchase and get their product FAST. We would also like any suggestions for budget minded riders on choice setups for spiderless rings! I can't even afford to run these on my own bike! They are 7075 Aluminum so they should last quite a while. With regards to tooth thickness, we found that .082" seemed to work the best with the geometry. I believe I copied this from another ring that I had laying around the shop. The width was probably snagged from the same ring. I plan on keeping everybody posted as I get better at this forum stuff. You have to be on it to avoid getting torched! Thanks for the help!


I think we all welcome additional options if you will Please get on it and make some good bling for us.:thumbsup: Trust me, if the product is top notch and the customer service is there, it will be a WIN WIN.:thumbsup:

Word spreads fast around here if you haven't noticed already..

Thx!


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

RCR,

I think the "play" i noticed may originate from the tooth profile. They seem to be very vertical and the loop below each tooth where the chain roller sits is a bit wider than the roller. Since this thread is about HBC alternatives... i will use Dan's ring to compare tooth profile.



















Notice how HBC is slightly more ramped and narrower in the valley between the teeth. RCR ring is very round. 12 and 6 o'clock teeth on the RCR ring does hold the chain very well on the sides of the teeth. Its just the slight play on the valley portion around 3 o'clock that shows that these teeth are providing no support during pedaling.

As for performance, i haven't noticed an issue yet. I do fear extra wear due to the tension on less teeth over a short period of time. The ring may hold up due to harder aluminum, but, it will wear on the chain more with all torque going into about 6 chain links instead of 12 or more.

If this one issue was adjusted and you make more tooth counts, so far, i will be back for more. I also actually like the jelly bean cutouts. Thank you for the current support.


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## rcrfab (Jun 14, 2012)

*RCR rings*

Basically, you guys rule! I am stoked for the input. Sheesh. I just want to go ride! Good news is, this all seems easily remedied. I do know somebody that has been riding his ring for over a year now and it keeps on truckin'. But, there is always room for innovation and refinement. I am going to have to bust a few out of some 6061 and check all these geometry suggestions before I go big on some 7075. Now, to Nicene Marks and that big ol' hill!


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

Just let me know if you need a tester. I'll be happy to try out rings and give some input.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

+1. I will beta test for you guys also if needed


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## cant fix a flat (Apr 20, 2006)

*PAID SPAM Homebrewed X0 Spiderless chainrings*

no wait here

Homebrewed X0 Spideless Chainrings 28T and 31T - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

4-5 weeks? Thats 4 months faster than HBC. Keep us (ME) updated. Thnx.


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## rcrfab (Jun 14, 2012)

Very nice rotors and ring!


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## rcrfab (Jun 14, 2012)

Bro, I got flagged for the same reason. They want you to buy an ad. $2 . I guess them's the rules.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

just so everyone is aware.

you cannot sell on MTBR unless you purchase a $2 ad. If not your post/thread will be deleted.

also, calling out a Mod to man up is really not that smart....ya buncha goofs. :lol:


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

ok, seems it was misunderstanding. I don't have them yet, so am not selling anything.

This is what i designed recently. 
32T - 51g (alu 7075 T6)
Tooth shape almost identical to E13 and i have tested this shape already on my other prototype. 


When i actually make them i will pay advertising costs for sure. Right now i am only showing what i have designed. Hope this helps. Otherwise i would have to create new thread every time i want to show what i have designed.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*fwiw*

new xx1 looks interesting, but I like the spiderless idea a bit more. nice selection of chainrings though!


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## spity (Mar 7, 2012)

If there was any money to be made off of these I could pump out a couple dozen a day. Im working up a one off chain ring and a couple different rear cogs for my bike, then "breaking the mold". Unless these are getting made over seas, your either going to be starving or they are going to be too expensive.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

it's not that bad if you have a friendly machine shop with some spare time in the crisis era. I have done few different cogs for myself and they are at reasonable cost. But agree that setting up cost is not low.

to be fair i don't live from that - it's my passion so i can afford small markup. But i hear what you are saying. "made in China" is everywhere now... and it's our choice what we want to pay for.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

spity said:


> If there was any money to be made off of these I could pump out a couple dozen a day. Im working up a one off chain ring and a couple different rear cogs for my bike, then "breaking the mold". Unless these are getting made over seas, your either going to be starving or they are going to be too expensive.


Well, it seems there's enough market that HBC is so behind that there's a 4-6+ month lead time. Not sure how many he's making per day, but if he pumped out 12 a day at $45-100 a pop and is that far in the weeds, there must be hell of a market and some money to be made.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

Some of us are willing to pay a markup for an item that will actually be delivered. I wonder who made us want that?


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## spity (Mar 7, 2012)

tehan said:


> it's not that bad if you have a friendly machine shop with some spare time in the crisis era. I have done few different cogs for myself and they are at reasonable cost. But agree that setting up cost is not low.
> 
> to be fair i don't live from that - it's my passion so i can afford small markup. But i hear what you are saying. "made in China" is everywhere now... and it's our choice what we want to pay for.


The passion is why we do this, but this is such a niche market. I wish you the best, and would absolutely love to see some finished products. There are so many different variables, with tooth count, bolt patterns, and mounting style. Everyone is almost a one off, (Hooray for CNC). I spent alot of time going to school to be a machinist, although its not my trade any more.



Nubster said:


> Well, it seems there's enough market that HBC is so behind that there's a 4-6+ month lead time. Not sure how many he's making per day, but if he pumped out 12 a day at $45-100 a pop and is that far in the weeds, there must be hell of a market and some money to be made.


For the right set up and the right shop yes there is, I dont think youd get rich, but I wouldnt see that someone starving to death doing it either. I dont know why hes so far behind (work load, time management, ethics, or otherwise). I couldnt pull it off. The family machine shop thats been around for 50+ years is billing out a couple hundred dollars an hour on current projects. If we were making these we'd be starving. 

If you made 12 a day at 252 business days a year(3000ish total), sold them at 45-100 each your looking at your looking at between 130k-300k(costs are not figured in). Good luck selling 3,000 of them. Realisticly cut your sales to a couple hundred tops, calculate your time, materials, shipping, etc. Dont forget uncle sams cut! If it pays for your new bike this year your ahead of the game.

Im not trying to start a war here, but trust me I wanted to do this. Passion doesnt pay my bills.


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## rcrfab (Jun 14, 2012)

I have received quite a few inquiries for custom rings and the like. As RCR is a general fabrication and machine shop, we tend to work better with the design already done. Take the thinking and trial and error out of the equation. Provide your own CAD drawings where geometry can be grabbed for CNC easily. You will save a lot. Design time is still at the same shop rate so it can add up when just general guidelines are given. I do think there is a market for our rings but it is very difficult to compete with Taiwan and China once they get there s--t together. So far, we have a big hole we have to dig out of before we even think about making any money on these things of bling.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

RCR,

Honestly, your design is already working. But, would be better with 2 fixes... A slightly wider mounting area to bring the ring inward a slight bit (only needed for those who want to run a chainguide really) and fix the tooth profiles. The teeth on my e.13 has a good fit on the chain. Just wish they were a millimeter taller. Other than that, its good. That said, if i knew CAD i would get this to you asap.

Btw, i just did a 30 mile ride with your ring. Mostly great, but, 2 times i got a slight "thump" that i felt with my pedals. I have only got this since adding the ring. I think its the feeling when the chain settles. I can't confirm, but, still believe the tooth profiles are the cause of this.


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## rcrfab (Jun 14, 2012)

Technology is awesome isn't it? Without it, those two suggestions would have taken days, weeks or months to get to me. Both are things that I am incorporating into the next incarnation of these rings. CAD work has already begun! I am selling these off, at a loss, and am stoked on the valuable information that I am gathering. This run was made with the input of just a couple of people testing. Now I have a couple dozen. Thank you so much for your purchase and the help!


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## Velokid1 (May 3, 2005)

You're a good man, Josh. 

I wish my new Black Cat dropouts had a tiny hummingbird etched into them so I could represent on the rear of the bike, too!


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Colors...colors would help sell as well. I mean when you get right down to it, a reasonably price high quality product should be enough, but offering a little bling won't hurt either.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

RCR, to better show what i'm talking about with the tooth profile i have taken pictures to point out the "play". I know you got something in the works, just wanted to put an image to the text


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

it's not a tooth profile. I had same problem with my very early designs as well. 

It's the spacing of the tooth - seems calculation was wrong for circumference. You will get it wrong by 0.02mm on tooth spacing and after 15 tooths you get 0.3mm error.


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## rcrfab (Jun 14, 2012)

Jetboy23, 
Nice shots! Tehan is right. Totally looks like a circumference issue. Is that an 8, 9 or 10 speed chain?

Nubster, 
All the kids are asking for the candy colors! Sounds like a good idea to me!

Velokid,
Those dropouts are all Todd, and all Black Cat. I wish I was as cool as Todd. He just provided the .dxf file and we crap em' out on the the ol' waterjet. Bike parts from email? Awesome.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

Chain is a KMC z610hx. No ramps for gears. It was a perfect fit on my e.13 guidering. Maybe i'll pull out a 9sp chain and try the fit sometime.


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## WebInt (Apr 15, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> Looking forward to hearing about your HBC cog in May 2013.. Lets hope he sends you the correct item ordered


Aren't you the guy that offline threaten to beat Dan up? Still butt hurt he canceled your order?


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## urbanseeds (Jul 2, 2007)

rydbyk said:


> new xx1 looks interesting, but I like the spiderless idea a bit more. nice selection of chainrings though!


this has probably been beat to death in the SS forum, but I couldn't find it. Can someone school me on the pros/cons spidered vs. spiderless. I am building a new ride and all I have ever used is spidered, and wondering about spiderless. thanks.


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## chestercospinner (Apr 8, 2007)

No chain ring bolts, slightly less weight and IMO better looking.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

I'm going spiderless to reduce a bit of weight (main reason), possible tooth counts under 32, and a cleaner look. I lose the bling options of colors (unless you go with HBC) since MRP and RCR are currently 1-2 color options. And, only HBC is doing Ti (my ultimate dream).


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

WebInt said:


> Aren't you the guy that offline threaten to beat Dan up? Still butt hurt he canceled your order?


Haha. Good one.

Again, are you Dan? No, I didn't threaten Dan. Perhaps he felt threatened by me when I told him I would like to speak with him in person a year ago.

Today, there would be a huge line of folks wanting to have a word face to face with Dan. You doubt this??

It was not a threat, but I guess it could have perceived as one.

I don't doubt that Dan is a good guy. It did bother me how he responded to me and my concerns way back when...struck me as a bit arrogant, as others have picked up on too..


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## WebInt (Apr 15, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> Haha. Good one.
> 
> Again, are you Dan? No, I didn't threaten Dan. Perhaps he felt threatened by me when I told him I would like to speak with him in person a year ago.
> 
> ...


So move on from talking trash about his company every chance you get. You don't even ride his stuff. You never bought anything from him either as he canceled your order. That's my point. I get others complaining that paid for stuff and don't have it or are still waiting. I would be pissed too. Again, you simply come off as a woman scorned.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

WebInt said:


> So move on from talking trash about his company every chance you get. You don't even ride his stuff. You never bought anything from him either as he canceled your order. That's my point. I get others complaining that paid for stuff and don't have it or are still waiting. I would be pissed too. Again, you simply come off as a woman scorned.


Nearly a year passed without me saying a word.


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## WebInt (Apr 15, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> Nearly a year passed without me saying a word.


Thanks for the PM. Much easier that way.


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## AtotheZ (Nov 16, 2007)

WebInt said:


> Aren't you the guy that offline threaten to beat Dan up? Still butt hurt he canceled your order?


Almost as bad as posting the same thing on two different threads


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

I would think those Velo's are the same as all the other 7075 4 bolt 104bcd rings. In my opinion, these rings are very similar in performance and longevity. Just find one thats a color you want and go either weight weenie or not. HBC makes beautiful rings for this application. At least from the pics i've seen of them (no, my account wasn't hacked just because i said something nice about HBC). With this application, its a pick your flavor type of thing.

We really need to see the offerings that are in the more custom area of the less common bolt patterns or spiderless for mountain biking. Also, still waiting for a spiderless SRAM titanium option. 30t Sram spiderless Ti ring is my dream.


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## CharlesinTX (May 22, 2010)

Just received my black RCR 34t. Beautiful work and from Santa Cruz to TX in under 48hrs! Will post about it after the rain stops and I can get some miles on it....


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## chestercospinner (Apr 8, 2007)

*bling is in*

nice fit... now which bike to mount you too??


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Looks great Chester.. Roundness?


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## chestercospinner (Apr 8, 2007)

Thanks, it measures round. This one is new and not from the original (flawed) batch not recommended for ss use. I'll slap it on soon and report back after some abuse


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

fryed_1 said:


> That's awesome if all you ever want to use is sram...


How does SRAM come into a SS thread? As a newb I thought SS = SS?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Ridnparadise said:


> How does SRAM come into a SS thread? As a newb I thought SS = SS?


Because the quote on your post is referring to the fact that the Bling Rings are made to only work with SRAM cranks.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*Weight diff?*

Anyone know the weight diff between the carbon XO crank ARMS vs the X9 crank ARMS...aka w/o chainrings but with spindle of course..

Thx.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Nubster said:


> Because the quote on your post is referring to the fact that the Bling Rings are made to only work with SRAM cranks.


That's makes so much sense only an idiot would have failed to work it out! Oh wait...


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## zaskaranddriver (Oct 14, 2009)

I went through a fair bit of agony getting my chainline set to use a freewheel and an HBC chainwheel. Looks like the MRP wouldn't work on my setup since it's dished. How much chainline offset results from the dishing?


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## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

jetboy23 said:


> RCR, to better show what i'm talking about with the tooth profile i have taken pictures to point out the "play". I know you got something in the works, just wanted to put an image to the text


Hows that RCR ring holding up?

Besides the RCR and Bling Ring's what is available for the Sram spiderless interface? HBC isn't on the radar anymore I'm afraid. Is Boone making one?


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

I took the RCR ring off due to some slop around the teeth. It was running fine as far as i know. I hadn't dropped a chain from the slop. In the 150mi i ran it, it seemed to wear fine, too. I just didn't want to be 15-20mi from my car and have an issue. It seemed like the load was being placed solely on 5-8 teeth compared to the full chain contact area.

Since MRP came out, i've been running that and have been very pleased. I wish they made odd tooth rings as well. Would have loved Ti. But, my 30t seems to be wearing well and shows little to no signs of wear after about 600-800mi.


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## catch22 (Apr 30, 2004)

jetboy23 said:


> I took the RCR ring off due to some slop around the teeth. It was running fine as far as i know. I hadn't dropped a chain from the slop. In the 150mi i ran it, it seemed to wear fine, too. I just didn't want to be 15-20mi from my car and have an issue. It seemed like the load was being placed solely on 5-8 teeth compared to the full chain contact area.
> 
> Since MRP came out, i've been running that and have been very pleased. I wish they made odd tooth rings as well. Would have loved Ti. But, my 30t seems to be wearing well and shows little to no signs of wear after about 600-800mi.


I'm a little late to this thread but check out North Shore Billet for some great new SRAM spiderless chainrings. Just ordered up a 31t today. I suspect I'll see this one just a bit sooner than the HBC 104 BCD that i ordered 9 months ago and no longer have a use for.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

*Titanium alternative:*

I haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but there is another option for titanium spiderless chainrings:

.:: Carbon-Ti - Hi Tech Bicycle Components ::.

They are available 32t through 36t for Cannondale, Specialized, & SRAM/Truvativ.

I just received one, ordered through their US distributor, Apollo Components.

I have not used it yet, but it looks nice, although not as blingy as the HBC I am running now. Will try to get a picture up.


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

How about some carbon chainring/sprocket?









https://shrani.si/f/1b/Md/1J3z3A3n/aj.jpg


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

giantdale said:


> How about some carbon chainring/sprocket?
> 
> View attachment 776094


Can it handle the abuse?


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Would you have a heart to abuse such beauties? Nothing but tender loving care!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Here are some pictures of the Carbon-Ti spiderless ring. Looks really nice, and only weighs 62 grams.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

bikeny said:


> Here are some pictures of the Carbon-Ti spiderless ring. Looks really nice, and only weighs 62 grams.


Wow! How much did that cost you? Looks thin/flexy..


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

rydbyk said:


> Wow! How much did that cost you? Looks thin/flexy..


They do look pretty "foldable", but pretty.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Cost was $160 delivered, a touch more than an HBC Ti ring cost when available.


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## Mr Pink57 (Jul 30, 2009)

Rennen is pretty alright in my book. I have not been able to ride it yet due to weather but I have owned to HBC chainrings in the past which one bent in half and the other I sold. Compared to HBC I think they're about the same expect I think Dan did a better ano job.


wolftoothcomponents.com

Anyone use this guy? He is right in my backyard but had no idea.


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## intheways (Apr 19, 2004)

Any word on other options? Any one out there do custom cut-outs?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

ABSOLUTE BLACK Kettenblatt Spider für Sram GXP Kurbel blau 51g, 54,50

available in 4 colours and few sizes. i think they will be soon available in US.


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## Warhawk (Jun 9, 2005)

*absolutely*



intheways said:


> Any word on other options?


We've been working very hard around the clock designing, engineering and testing our direct mount spiderless chainwheels for X0/X9 compatible cranks. We've been testing the optimal chainline extensively this week and will go into production next week and will start taking pre-orders then. All of our spiderless chainwheels will be available anodized *Black, Red, Blue, Brown, Yellow, Purple, Green, Orange, Grey and Pink
*

Attached is our 28T Spiderless Cyclone Chainwheel which is being tested:
















intheways said:


> Any one out there do custom cut-outs?


Yes we already offer this service, if you have a CAD drawing you can email it to us or send us a PDF of your design and we'll let you know if it's possible. If you need a CAD template just let us know and we can send you one in dwg/dxf format.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

tehan said:


> ABSOLUTE BLACK Kettenblatt Spider für Sram GXP Kurbel blau 51g, 54,50
> 
> available in 4 colours and few sizes. i think they will be soon available in US.
> View attachment 783456
> ...


What's up with the weird decorative lines that serve no purpose other than to increase cost?


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

All these grooves for decoration and minimal weight decrease would seem to only be a great crevice for dirt and grim to accumulate. Cleaner is better imo. Those Absolute Blacks look real nice, though. Just could do without the squiggles.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

they are cheaper than Bling Ring by 10$ so where you see the cost increase?


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

That a milled ring. You can make all the machining in a mill. those grooves are the machine marks aftewr milling the dish with a small ballshaped/halfsphere tool. a 3 axis machine that is.

Otherwise you need to oput it in a lathe to get the dish. 2 machines, instead of 1. Also a lathe with live (spinning) tools can be used and then you can make it all in one single machine too.

Or it could be cosmetic. I don't care for that look at all. Looks suboptimal to me.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

tehan said:


> they are cheaper than Bling Ring by 10$ so where you see the cost increase?


MRP Bling Ring is about $65 (average US dollars) and the 54Euro converts to $70. More expensive.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Will be racing remainder of season on MRP Bling Ring 1X10 set up. Sram crankset.

EDIT: Well, nope ;(

After taking my crankset apart and installing the nice Bling Ring, I reinstalled the crankset. 

Hmm... Why is the ring nearly touching my chainstay and why is it WAY off from my newly purchased E13 guide?

Answer: Bling Rings can not be used on PF30 BBs. The spindle is too short! Well...crap in a hand basket!!! 

To MRP's credit, on their site, it does mention that they are to be used with GXP type only...but it was like finding a needle in a haystack on their site.....argh. 

Gave me an excuse to spend another G on my bike..haha. Just went with the XX1.

Frame is NINER RDO fwiw...


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

jetboy23 said:


> MRP Bling Ring is about $65 (average US dollars) and the 54Euro converts to $70. More expensive.


I think you forgot that it is German shop (Europe). So if you buy from US you don't pay vat. So it works out to 45 eur that means 59$ with current exchange rate. Shipping is not expensive either. So it works out cheaper.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

Really? World wide shipping 35Euros.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I do like the red, but loss the extra marks please. Form should follow function.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

seems i missed that 35eur shipping. But anyway it works cheaper excluding shipping. So paying 60$ in US from US shop would be ok i guess.

These markings are because of technology used. This gives ideally round chainrings as it's done from one clamp. Not like putting material on lathe and then mill (mrp does that - thus early problems with roundness). Here all is done on the mill and these grooves are really tiny and shallow. So function is on first place. It works Making it really smooth would increase cost actually.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

If only i could get a Sram splined Ti ring.

tehan, if the AB rings got a US distributor, i would probably try them out. For now, MRP is working great and wear has been really good.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

haha. Don't know if you have tried ti chainrings, but my experience with Ti cassettes and chain was poor. I expected longer life due to material properties, but it turned out that it dies as quickly as steel ones. So am not sure anymore if there is a big sense to that apart of the bling of Ti. 

I have also on one of my bikes a 40T titanium (Carbon-Ti) ring and wear rate is very comparable to the aluminum one it replaced. The only difference it that Ti one cost me 3x more
Of course there are methods to reduce wear on titanium but they cost a fortune, so already expensive ring gets just even more expensive.


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

Personally I like the look of the absolute black chainrings. Squiggly lines included.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Best part is the weight:

MRP: 28t -53g, 30t -58g, 32t -72g, 34t -85g, & 36t -94g

Absolute Black: 28t -44g, 30t -48g, 32t -51g, 34t -67g, (36 in the works)

NSB: 28t -75g, 30t -85g, 32t-95g, 34t -105g, 36t -120g


This is 30% lighter than MRP and almost 45% than NSB. Finite element testing and "funny lines" can pay of very nicely. At the end of the day who does not want to have a bit lighter bike here and there, which is reliable as heavier bike and cost you exactly the same?


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Now I'm interested, funny lines included! Since these are a result of the milling process and not added for decoration, I don't mind and I like red. How are the tooth profiles and how do they preform?


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## cdn-dave (Jan 6, 2007)

tehan said:


> I think you forgot that it is German shop (Europe).


Sorry, I'm a little confused here - who's based out of Germany? I'm asking because I'm in Germany now, and am really interested in a spiderless ring for my single speed, albeit a shimano crank...:???:


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

cdn-dave said:


> Sorry, I'm a little confused here - who's based out of Germany? I'm asking because I'm in Germany now, and am really interested in a spiderless ring for my single speed, albeit a shimano crank...:???:


The Absolute Black Sram rings are based out of Germany. Not sure if they have shimano splined.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Tooth profiles are very similar to the ones from e13 single chainrings. Proven and reliable. I have tested tooth profiles on other rings in my singlespeed 29er (33x18) for over two years and am still able to use same ring with new chain! (pictures will follow on monday)
Tried these also with no bash/chain keeper (but with type 2 rear mech) and chain retention is really good. For the stuff i ride (wet roots, rough, often muddy terrain) is perfect. But for rockgardens i guess a bashring and chainkeeper would be a good idea - if you tend to hit a lot with a chainring. 
Anyway, if you hit something often a bottom bashguard is wise to have. There is no such chainring which can take brutal abuse from rocks and keep straight all the time. It's because it does not matter how wide is the base of the ring - tooths are only 1.9mm in all chainrings and they simply can't take big hits and remain straight.

forgot. About those funny lines. Extralight products are made in same way so you can see their crank here:
QRC 2

Same with All Hope brakes (levers, bodies and calipers)


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

tehan said:


> Tooth profiles are very similar to the ones from e13 single chainrings. Proven and reliable. I have tested tooth profiles on other rings in my singlespeed 29er (33x18) for over two years and am still able to use same ring with new chain! (pictures will follow on monday)
> Tried these also with no bash/chain keeper (but with type 2 rear mech) and chain retention is really good. For the stuff i ride (wet roots, rough, often muddy terrain) is perfect. But for rockgardens i guess a bashring and chainkeeper would be a good idea - if you tend to hit a lot with a chainring.
> Anyway, if you hit something often a bottom bashguard is wise to have. There is no such chainring which can take brutal abuse from rocks and keep straight all the time. It's because it does not matter how wide is the base of the ring - tooths are only 1.9mm in all chainrings and they simply can't take big hits and remain straight.
> 
> ...


So how do we get in the US? I had a bling ring on order and it's backordered for a while ...


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I am working on it right now.
First production should be in US within 5 weeks. Will keep you posted.

Few photos from todays ride.
Yes it's UK and we have snow from yesterday... with mud. This is a custom brown color in case anyone wonders. This setup is with XX casette (12-36) and X0 rear mech and 32T on the front. I know i have a front mech still on... but chain retention is very good like it is on the photo, so i have not put any chainguide yet - as maybe i will not have to buy one. There is absolutely no problem with chain line in such setup. What i found is in most cases one rides in mid section of casette anyway for 60% of time, so chain is almost straight then.


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## cdn-dave (Jan 6, 2007)

jetboy23 said:


> The Absolute Black Sram rings are based out of Germany. Not sure if they have shimano splined.


Okay. Not sure if it makes a difference to anyone, but here's why I was confused, according to their website:

"We are based in Woburn, UK so please mind on local time."

In any case, they can't do a shimano version at this time...


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Mr Pink57 said:


> Anyone use this guy? He is right in my backyard but had no idea.


Already posted this on another thread. Drop-stop teeth (XX1 style) allow use without a chainkeeper, im running a standard X0 short cage and 10spd chain with no problems so far.

Apologies for the crap photos, camera setting were wrong.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

cdn-dave said:


> Okay. Not sure if it makes a difference to anyone, but here's why I was confused, according to their website:
> 
> "We are based in Woburn, UK so please mind on local time."
> 
> In any case, they can't do a shimano version at this time...


We are based in UK What you have seen in the link is our Dealer web shop in Germany. I am in process of updating our own web site with the product, but our German dealer is quicker then me

What spines are you interested in for Shimano? I mean do you speak about spiderless version or 104BCD XX1 style rings?


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## bkirby10 (Feb 23, 2012)

I still like the old-school XTR 950/951/952 cranks. Any chance for a spider less ring for them? HBC was the only one left that I was able to find...


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## Warhawk (Jun 9, 2005)

*XTR M952 Splined Chainrings*



bkirby10 said:


> I still like the old-school XTR 950/951/952 cranks. Any chance for a spider less ring for them? HBC was the only one left that I was able to find...


Hi bkirby, I'll have these available by the end of the week, if you would like to test one out and provide feedback shoot us an email. The old 95x series are our favorite too, I plan on putting the 952's on my singlespeed build this summer, let us know, Thanks - Colin


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I will think about those as well. At the end of the day it's just a spline interface change + small adjustment.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

ok, finally i have sorted the site. 
You can purchase chainrings here: Sram Spiderless

it's 60$ +14$ for shipping to US and Canada. 
Any questions or problems - let me know


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## bkirby10 (Feb 23, 2012)

What are the possibilities for a Shimano spiderless ring? Undrstood if it takes a while but still wondering...


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I will do them, but it will take some time. Design is not a problem now - it's all about setup of CNC to do it in right money. This takes a lot of time to set up a line and make tools to hold the chainring while machining. It's not a printer or a garage tinkering.


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## bkirby10 (Feb 23, 2012)

Understandable. Let us know if/when you get it done. There has got to be a few older guys besides me who love the older Shimano cranks (V1 or square taper BBs)...


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

tehan said:


> ok, finally i have sorted the site.
> You can purchase chainrings here: Sram Spiderless
> 
> it's 60$ +14$ for shipping to US and Canada.
> Any questions or problems - let me know


Are they in stock and shipping? How about red?


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

bkirby10 said:


> Understandable. Let us know if/when you get it done. There has got to be a few older guys besides me who love the older Shimano cranks (V1 or square taper BBs)...


count me in.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

SS Hack said:


> Are they in stock and shipping? How about red?


 all is on the site. All sizes and colours will be in stock in first week of May. We are now milling as we speak.
You can preorder and this will get you ahead of the queue as dealers have preordered quite a lot as well, so we have to meet the demand.

Watch out Bikerumor as well as i have sent them red for test, so they should get it next week.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

tehan said:


> all is on the site. All sizes and colours will be in stock in first week of May. We are now milling as we speak.
> You can preorder and this will get you ahead of the queue as dealers have preordered quite a lot as well, so we have to meet the demand.


And you promise they're round, right?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

i can put my hand on that. You have to understand how they are made. 

MRP uses lathe first to make a dish. Then they put it on the mill to get the tooth shape and rest of holes. This is risky and you have to be very careful to not to get it out of center when mounting to mill.

Mine are done from one Clamp on the same cnc mill table. That means crank interface and tooths are made from one clamp and there is no way to make it out of true. It is just not possible that way to make it bad. This allows me as well to drop the cost of milling by a bit, so i can offer them to you at lower cost than MRP or NSB -simple. Not everyone can do that as it requires very fancy and expensive tools to do it that way.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

tehan said:


> i can put my hand on that. You have to understand how they are made.
> 
> MRP uses lathe first to make a dish. Then they put it on the mill to get the tooth shape and rest of holes. This is risky and you have to be very careful to not to get it out of center when mounting to mill.
> 
> Mine are done from one Clamp on the same cnc mill table. That means crank interface and tooths are made from one clamp and there is no way to make it out of true. It is just not possible that way to make it bad. This allows me as well to drop the cost of milling by a bit, so i can offer them to you at lower cost than MRP or NSB -simple. Not everyone can do that as it requires very fancy and expensive tools to do it that way.


Thanks, I'm going to try out a red one!


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

tehan said:


> i can put my hand on that. You have to understand how they are made.
> 
> MRP uses lathe first to make a dish. Then they put it on the mill to get the tooth shape and rest of holes. This is risky and you have to be very careful to not to get it out of center when mounting to mill.
> 
> Mine are done from one Clamp on the same cnc mill table. That means crank interface and tooths are made from one clamp and there is no way to make it out of true. It is just not possible that way to make it bad. This allows me as well to drop the cost of milling by a bit, so i can offer them to you at lower cost than MRP or NSB -simple. Not everyone can do that as it requires very fancy and expensive tools to do it that way.


You could probably write a program that first measures/probes and then makes an automatic datum shift (or just rezero) for each piece, and the only "cost" would be the time it takes for the probing and shifting in that tool. Its not that hard to get stuff centered though. i did some 200 round pieces once that were for ultra high speed spindles, everything needed to be perfectly balanced when done, clamped them in the mill with one of those chucks that have 3 points (like in a lathe). And while you think this would center the pieces right?? They were off by about 0,2 mm all off them and that was unacceptable for those pieces. Had to do a datum shift/new zero for each piece. 0.2mm out of center is not that much for a chainring imo. to get that accuracy you only need operators that are not monkeys or retarded. Nothing special is needed.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

SS Hack said:


> And you promise they're round, right?


Depending on how much material is removed and condition of the material, how the material is removed and internal tensions and stress that gets relieved and crap like that, hardening before or after machining etc, stuff can get out of round/warped after all machining is done, it happens. and the more material you remove and the more aggressive you remove in the least amount of steps the more likely it is to happen. To avoid this precision stuff is always machined to leave room for this until the last step which only removes like 0.1 or 0.2 mm, usually by grinding instead of machining. Not one single part on a bike is a high precision/tight tolerance component though (imo)


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## cdn-dave (Jan 6, 2007)

fishcreek said:


> count me in.





bkirby10 said:


> Understandable. Let us know if/when you get it done. There has got to be a few older guys besides me who love the older Shimano cranks (V1 or square taper BBs)...


Looking forward to it too!


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## OldHouseMan (Dec 7, 2006)

Is anybody making Sram spiderless 39-40T chainrings? I'm looking for a chainring to put on the Sram S950 crankset on my CX bike.


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## Dcluley98 (Dec 17, 2011)

Tehan, what's the offset of your rings. Can you show some horizontal pics with measurement to compare to other options in the thread?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

car bone said:


> You could probably write a program that first measures/probes and then makes an automatic datum shift (or just rezero) for each piece, and the only "cost" would be the time it takes for the probing and shifting in that tool. Its not that hard to get stuff centered though. i did some 200 round pieces once that were for ultra high speed spindles, everything needed to be perfectly balanced when done, clamped them in the mill with one of those chucks that have 3 points (like in a lathe). And while you think this would center the pieces right?? They were off by about 0,2 mm all off them and that was unacceptable for those pieces. Had to do a datum shift/new zero for each piece. 0.2mm out of center is not that much for a chainring imo. to get that accuracy you only need operators that are not monkeys or retarded. Nothing special is needed.


Hi, this is all fine when you want to make one at a time - then i fully agree. But if you are making 20 at one go on the table... it's not possible (or rather waste of time to make it cost effective)


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Dcluley98 said:


> Tehan, what's the offset of your rings. Can you show some horizontal pics with measurement to compare to other options in the thread?


 all is on the website. Chainline is 50.5mm. That means that the chainring will sit exactly where your middle one is on the triple set crank. So it is identical to MRP in that matter. This is the best spot for the chainring as it works well with upper and lower gears of the cassette. 
So simple answer- chainring is dished, not flat.


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## bjmoore1 (Feb 21, 2007)

It looks like Wolf Tooth is shipping spiderless wide/narrow (a la XX1) this week if you are geared and want to avoid the chain keeper...
Direct Mount for SRAM GXP Cranks


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## WolfTooth (Nov 5, 2009)

That's right! They will be here soon and as you can see in the link we are taking pre-orders.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

bjmoore1 said:


> It looks like Wolf Tooth is shipping spiderless wide/narrow (a la XX1) this week if you are geared and want to avoid the chain keeper...
> Direct Mount for SRAM GXP Cranks


You can avoid chain keeper with mine as well. New production Tooths are slightly different to the photos i showed sometime ago now. I was holding it back to the last minute to wait for test results from pro riders - and they came excellent.

What we found out is that we can avoid having wide/narrow tooths and retain chain same way as XX1 - all the magic is in the tooth shape itself . In May you will be able to find out yourself. Good news is that i can still keep 60$ retail and you don't need chain keeper. 
you can pre-order now as well on the web.

exciting times!!


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

tehan said:


> You can avoid chain keeper with mine as well. New production Tooths are slightly different to the photos i showed sometime ago now. I was holding it back to the last minute to wait for test results from pro riders - and they came excellent.
> 
> What we found out is that we can avoid having wide/narrow tooths and retain chain same way as XX1 - all the magic is in the tooth shape itself . In May you will be able to find out yourself. Good news is that i can still keep 60$ retail and you don't need chain keeper.
> you can pre-order now as well on the web.
> ...


I am taking your word for this - just ordered one of your 32t rings in black (scott in Canada) most excited about the weight loss over the MRP 32t direct mount!

Do you feel it will be reliable enough for XC racing with no chain-guide and a clutch rear derail on a hardtail?


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

How soon will these ship? I need a red one to bling up my humble Monkey.


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

rydbyk said:


> Will be racing remainder of season on MRP Bling Ring 1X10 set up. Sram crankset.
> 
> EDIT: Well, nope ;(
> 
> ...


Yeah, the Bling ring and BB30 or PF30 is tough. Mine works on my BB30 Quiring ONLY because it's a 28t ring, and clearance at the chainstay is barely enough. If I ever go to a bigger ring up front it won't be a MRP Bling Ring.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

before 15th May (so in about 4 weeks). Sorry can't rush it more than i already done. Everyone need to sleep from time to time and having 16h day, every day, is not something one can do in long run.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

Tehan, this is great info. Please do let us know when these new version will be available to order. I need me some spiderless blue bling. If only i could get Ti...


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

broadwayline said:


> I am taking your word for this - just ordered one of your 32t rings in black (scott in Canada) most excited about the weight loss over the MRP 32t direct mount!
> 
> Do you feel it will be reliable enough for XC racing with no chain-guide and a clutch rear derail on a hardtail?


Hi Scott, thanks for a business!
I don't see any problem with XC riding and chain retention. Only really aggresive enduro riders or some serious downhillers should use chainkeeper as there is no miracles. When you ride really big stuff, chain does what it wants, so even best ring will not handle it on its own. But regular stuff what people mostly do is no problem.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

jetboy23 said:


> Tehan, this is great info. Please do let us know when these new version will be available to order. I need me some spiderless blue bling. If only i could get Ti...


Hi jetboy,
You can preorder now if you want on the web. Shipping is in middle of May as stated on the site. 
To make it clear - chainrings you see on my site currently ARE the new design. So what you order now is that new design. I will not make old one anymore as there is no point in that. 
Will change photos as soon as i get them from photo studio to not confusing more.


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## F2a (Aug 20, 2012)

Tehan, how are the rings coming along? I'm interested but don't want to pre-order after getting scammed by homebrewed components.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

F2a said:


> Tehan, how are the rings coming along? I'm interested but don't want to pre-order after getting scammed by homebrewed components.


Funny you posted that. I just pre-ordered 2hrs ago. lol. Can't wait to try them out. I will pay attention to the 45 day cuttoff, though.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

They are milled already. Now i need to get them to anodizing plant which should take no more than 12 days according to shedule (1-3rd is national holiday where i make them) so can't get it done quicker. 

If i can't keep the date stated on my site - you will get your money back at the same minute you tell me to do so. I am here not to get just few bucks come on guys... The main difference between me and Hb is that i don't do all the stuff by myself- that would be suicide. So i hire professionals to make the chainrings for me. I am best at design and they are at milling the stuff. So i have time to answer your emails and deal with distributors. 
Jetboy - your blue ring will be made along with everyone else. don't worry. I have found distributor in US finally, so soon it will be easier for you guys to get them there. How soon? - don't know yet.


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

Tehan, forgive my ignorance, will you chainring work on Bontrager Race Lites?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

fishcreek said:


> Tehan, forgive my ignorance, will you chainring work on Bontrager Race Lites?


If you are talking about RL 104BCD crank then this will not fit (only bontrager i remember is the carbon one made by truvativ - this would work)

But don't worry. I am launching soon XX1 style chainrings for 104BCD. These should be done by end May - more news soon on those.

XX1 STYLE - Shimano


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

tehan said:


> Jetboy - your blue ring will be made along with everyone else. don't worry.


tehan, i wasn't suggesting that there will be an issue. I'm very excited to get one of these rings. I'm shocked that you're on top of orders enough to know it was a blue one that i ordered. Thats awesome.

I am waiting patiently, just not for more than 44 days. lol.


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## Warhawk (Jun 9, 2005)

*warhawk spiderless chainrings*

I just added our hurricane spiderless chainring to our growing collection of spiderless chainring designs. I'm keeping several ring sizes in-stock and utilize JIT (Just-in-Time) manufacturing meaning that even if we don't have a chainring in-stock it only takes a few hours from the time the order is received to machine and ship the part. Our rings have been tested extensively and we are now machining these rings with our new taller tooth profile which will be the same tooth profile used on our soon to be released XX1 compatible chainrings. If you have any questions let us know, Thanks - Colin


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Do you have any weights for those rings?


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## Warhawk (Jun 9, 2005)

broadwayline said:


> Do you have any weights for those rings?


Sure no problem, I just weighed these here at the shop:

Warhawk Industries Hurricane
Spiderless Chainring Weights:

28T(68g), 30T(74g), 32T(87g), 34T(112g), 36T(124g)

The hurricane design is not the heaviest or the lightest among other rings but remember take into consideration the weight to strength ratio. Our rings are ~40% stronger then the lightest competitors ring. If you case a log crossing or need to pivot over a log you don't have to worry about bending one of our rings. If you have any other questions just let me know and I'll get some of the other weights up for our other designs soon, Thanks - Colin


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Warhawk said:


> Sure no problem, I just weighed these here at the shop:
> 
> Warhawk Industries Hurricane
> Spiderless Chainring Weights:
> ...


Great info! I was expecting them to be heavier, but they look like a great strength to weight alternative.


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## bkirby10 (Feb 23, 2012)

Just wondering if anyone has any more plans for Shimano spiderless rings? Haven't heard anything in a while and was just wondering...


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

jetboy - it was kind of luck that i know it's you but figured that out.



Warhawk said:


> Sure no problem, I just weighed these here at the shop:
> 
> Warhawk Industries Hurricane
> Spiderless Chainring Weights:
> ...


Warhawk - thanks for weights. I missed them on my site for comparison chart.

Since mine are the lightest out there i am just curious how did you come up with that 40% stronger value. I am specifically interested in your back calculation... will you share with us?

Besides, Tank is stronger than a family car by "500%"(i picked that number as it looks good). But people ain't drive tanks on the street as most of them figured out that car is safe enough to drive...
That's why FEA is so brilliant as you can take weight off of the part without scarifying the strength. I am not the only one who discovered that feature you know
Secondly - if you pick a lot stronger material, then you can make a lighter part. Since i use the strongest aluminum currently available to public, i can also shave a lot more weight. I have missed on your site what material you use, so don't want to comment more on that.

To make story short. Heavier does not necessary mean it is stronger. These things does not go in common when using different materials and FEA (i know it sound wired for some but that is true). Sometimes heavier means weaker - for those who used FEA i don't have to write more. For others - heavier means more rigid in most cases, and rigidity is not a good thing in some applications and some axis (don't think about chainrings but about all the engineered parts). It's a very large topic...

It's not arguing. I just noticed in general that people sometimes make statements without any backup in calculations. So wanted to shed more light on the topic which is very interesting on its own. FEA is a blessing of modern times. Just look back 30years ago and look how heavy many things were. This was because lack of performance materials and lack of calculations. Imagine yourself calculation on paper of 500,000 points in FEA analysis... no go. (well some airspace and car companies did that with 100s of mathematicians, but it's an exception)

ok enough moaning.


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## Warhawk (Jun 9, 2005)

bkirby10 said:


> Just wondering if anyone has any more plans for Shimano spiderless rings? Haven't heard anything in a while and was just wondering...


We have a few out on the trails being tested right now and plan on having these available within a few days. I'll post a reply when they are ready to order, Thanks - Colin


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

As long as a chainring can handle my less than incredible strength, i'm good. If i drop my ring on a log, or rock, or anything really... then i fully expect it to take damage like any other chainring not built for bmx freestyle or trials riding. Maybe some will handle the abuse, maybe some won't. I expect them all to fail if i abuse them though. So, i don't.


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

I have been running a MRP 36t bling ring for two months now with a G3 guide. My chain hasn't dropped once. Admittedly I didn't search for many alternatives. I was aware of issues they had early on, knew they sorted it out, and have always known I can count on them to sort any issue you have with them out anyway. I weigh 200 pounds and got a 36t, so of course my X0 cranks do flex, but this ring feels great. In itself, it feels more firm.


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## Warhawk (Jun 9, 2005)

tehan said:


> Warhawk - thanks for weights. I missed them on my site for comparison chart.


Sure no problem, I'll keep the weights up to date on our site with each design as we make refinements to the current designs.



tehan said:


> Since mine are the lightest out there i am just curious how did you come up with that 40% stronger value. I am specifically interested in your back calculation... will you share with us?


Reverse engineering with Autodesk Simulation gives us a ballpark estimate of 40%. We use designs similar too but not exact and we have estimations for many ring designs as well. I think it's important to note that just because a ring is the lightest or heaviest is not negative as their are many elements that need to be considered and factored in. The riding style generally becomes a critical decision when purchasing any component. We've always machined our rings thick and burly for a more aggressive riding style.



tehan said:


> Besides, Tank is stronger than a family car by "500%"(i picked that number as it looks good). But people ain't drive tanks on the street as most of them figured out that car is safe enough to drive...


Agree that a car is safe enough to drive but can it go where a tank can? 



tehan said:


> I have missed on your site what material you use, so don't want to comment more on that.


By default with use aircraft grade 6061 with 7075, Stainless Steel and Titanium optional.


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## LucasARG (Dec 29, 2010)

Me and my friend, just ordered 3 absoluteBLACK Sram Spiderless chainrings, we can't wait to mount them! I'll tell you how it goes and will share a picture as soon as they arrive


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Warhawk would it be possible to get a ring made out of 17-4ph, (or regular 4130 for that matter) non ramped/pinned and made for 8sp chains? What would the estimated cost for that be? I would be interested in a regular 4 bolt ring (what is it, 104mm bcd?).


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

don't want to go to argument, but:
Warhawk - What you just proven is that your design is 40% stronger than your other design "similar" to mine which you have put together. Please note the word Similar. 
Since you don't have any dimension of my rings, have no knowledge what exactly material i use, what grain structure it has and what heat treatment processes it has gone through, you can't compare them - simple. 
Assumption is mother of all failures people say. 

6061 is actually quite soft material. Same as 7075 untreated. So you have to make it heavier by default as their 0.2% Proof is 2 times lower compared to material i am using. All the detail is in pre process heat treatment and post process one as well as aging. Shape of a blank (rod or plate) has a huge impact on the final product as well. 

So all in all it is possible to make same strength piece, but with a lower weight when done smart, using best materials, FEA and metallurgy knowledge. 

Making something thicker does not necessarily mean it is stronger - that's why many products look completely different now than 30 years back (just think what had happened in bike industry... and why are we now at such point)

thanks
Marcin


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## Warhawk (Jun 9, 2005)

car bone said:


> Warhawk would it be possible to get a ring made out of 17-4ph, (or regular 4130 for that matter) non ramped/pinned and made for 8sp chains? What would the estimated cost for that be? I would be interested in a regular 4 bolt ring (what is it, 104mm bcd?).


Hi car bone, sure I can do this. I do have 4130 plate but I'd rather cut the ring from stainless steel, I think you'll be happier with the stainless, 4130 is a very good steel but rusts quickly unless painted. All of our steel and titanium rings we laser cut from flat plate. Yes a regular 4 bolt ring is 104mm BCD but let us know which crank you have so we can double check. I can cut the ring for $45 + shipping, just send us an email with our contact form if you are interested. I have the laser open for machining this Thurs so let us know what tooth size you need and I'll get this cut out with the other rings we're cutting, Thanks - Colin


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## voodoochild (Feb 20, 2004)

Tehan, are you going to be producing 102bdc rings? 

I just ordered one from Warhawk. Would order from you, too.


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## WolfTooth (Nov 5, 2009)

*88 BCD for XTR M985*

for those that relied on HBC for your 88 BCD rings, check this out=)


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Hi again Warhawk. Which stainless can you get hold of? 300 series would be too soft I think and many people seem to dislike it (especially when made by surly). 410/416 is preferable to 300series imo, but on the top of my list is 17-4 ph, that one should be readily available in the US, also as surplus material. Aerospace use lots of it. I would be able to pay for that of course.

I just want the ultimate in durablility so I can move the rings onto a few different cranks/bikes I want to try out.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

tehan said:


> don't want to go to argument, but:
> Warhawk - What you just proven is that your design is 40% stronger than your other design "similar" to mine which you have put together. Please note the word Similar.
> Since you don't have any dimension of my rings, have no knowledge what exactly material i use, what grain structure it has and what heat treatment processes it has gone through, you can't compare them - simple.
> Assumption is mother of all failures people say.
> ...


So you have found out the material has a grain direction or what? Have you done any izod/charpy impact tests to see the difference in toughness transverse and longitudinally?

Seriously all 7075 t6 is the same crap all 6061 t6 is the same crap, thats why the HT process is standardized, so it all turns out the same, every time. If a 7075 piece made from thick round bar stock would break, so would the one from sheet too.

I'm not especially impressed by any alu to be honest, no matter what type, condition or shape. I'm not impressed by FEA calcs either since it says nothing about the knowledge of the engineer. Because you still have to be a good engineer to understand whats important. I bet I could crank out a "theoretically" stronger and lighter part than you within a month of learning the program, no need to be an engineer to FEA 

Will it be better? Probably not, Will it infact be stronger and more durable in reality when used on a bike? Probably not. But hey the FEA program tells us its the best so it must be true right. You do realize almost everything out of taiwan is FEA stuff right? They have computers and CNC machines too. Does it make it any better? No. That stuff breaks just as everything else, nothing magic about it at all.

As usual practice and theory is the same, in theory at least.

Yeah youre right about making stuff thicker does not necessarily make it stronger, but in 99.9% of the times thats just what happens in real life use, gets stiffer too. But strenght/weight is another issue. I judge my gear by durability/€ and that works out quite well.

Sorry if I may appear rude but almost all new things are the "best and lightest ever" with the new revolutionary manufacturing methods and new gizmos here and new state of the art materials, but usually, in the end, its just the same crap as the old crap now in a new color.

I'm not cynical at all.


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## LucasARG (Dec 29, 2010)

WolfTooth said:


> for those that relied on HBC for your 88 BCD rings, check this out=)
> View attachment 795132


Just beautiful!


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## Warhawk (Jun 9, 2005)

car bone said:


> Hi again Warhawk. Which stainless can you get hold of? 300 series would be too soft I think and many people seem to dislike it (especially when made by surly). 410/416 is preferable to 300series imo, but on the top of my list is 17-4 ph, that one should be readily available in the US, also as surplus material. Aerospace use lots of it. I would be able to pay for that of course.
> 
> I just want the ultimate in durablility so I can move the rings onto a few different cranks/bikes I want to try out.


We have 316 in-stock here. I'll call a few suppliers tomorrow to see if they have any drop-offs of 17-4, if I can't locate any we're stuck with ordering a 12"x12" piece @ $124. We can't order from our supplier because you have to buy a 4'x10' sheet which is well over $5000. Let me know what tooth size(s) you want as we should be able to get 3 or 4 rings out of a 12"x12" plate depending on the tooth size, Thanks - Colin


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Warhawk said:


> Sure no problem, I'll keep the weights up to date on our site with each design as we make refinements to the current designs.
> 
> Reverse engineering with Autodesk Simulation gives us a ballpark estimate of 40%. We use designs similar too but not exact and we have estimations for many ring designs as well. I think it's important to note that just because a ring is the lightest or heaviest is not negative as their are many elements that need to be considered and factored in. The riding style generally becomes a critical decision when purchasing any component. We've always machined our rings thick and burly for a more aggressive riding style.
> 
> ...


TL.DR

Tehan = lightest
Yours = strongest

Got it.


----------



## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

car bone said:


> So you have found out the material has a grain direction or what? Have you done any izod/charpy impact tests to see the difference in toughness transverse and longitudinally?
> 
> Seriously all 7075 t6 is the same crap all 6061 t6 is the same crap, thats why the HT process is standardized, so it all turns out the same, every time. If a 7075 piece made from thick round bar stock would break, so would the one from sheet too.
> 
> ...


Hi, 
Sorry i have not looked into here for a while. 
To answer your questions. 
I don't do meterial testing on my own. Manufacturer is doing that for me. You get a certificate with each sheet what properties it has exactly. It's a lot o fun.

I don't use 7075 T6 - that is good material but not the best. I use completely different hardening method - manufacturer does to be more specific. This is one of the most advanced manufacturing plant of Aluminum in the world (based in Germany).

So yes - the grain structure is different on each hardening state and each material composition. you can see more here as an example. 
Metallography and Microstructure of Aluminum and Alloys
You can see that 7075 has different structure to others - grains are really more longitudinal rather than round shaped. That contributes in some degree to material strenght.

I think you should read a bit more about how material shape dictates how strong is the final product, as what you wrote is not correct. 
Making a chainring from very thin heattreated, cold forged plate is 10x better than making it from a round bar! This is because a round bar even if cold forged etc is still soft in the center and only hard at the outer - so it's properties changes with the radius. That is Extremally important. Thickenss of the plate also plays a big role if we decide on that. 
There is soo much more to say in that topic, but i don't want to write about everything here.

I spent more that 8 years in this industry working for the biggest companies and helping them with the products. FEA is one of the tools that helps to evaluate prototype first. THIS is NOT equivalent of testing. Tests are done by XC World Cup Silver Champion, several National champion and CX Champion - Marek Konwa. 
I use FEA to pick the best design i am physically capable to make and then test it to the point that it's not possible to use it anymore.

So yes, you can create stronger and lighter part than heavier counterpart, using the right materials, best design, optimization process etc.
I am not saying mine is X% stronger than someones as it's not possible to say before you test both. But i can assure you that my product is capable to go over a log and still be fine. It's designed to withstand everyday riding conditions, and if it's lighter than everyone else - even better. 
That is a whole point of using technology - to make smarter, lighter parts which can withstand same conditions we are used to when riding with what we have now in the bikes. That my friend is called progress.

With such parts you can save 4-5lbs from the bike. That is a huge gain in speed uphill, downhill and handling. If anyone experienced changes of heavy-lighter bike, knows what i am talking about. Bike just responds so much better.

thanks


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

Tehan, i just noticed the preorder shipping date has now been pushed back nearly 3 more weeks. Are the previous orders shipping and this is only for new orders? 

If not, thats getting a bit too close to the 45day paypal limit.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi Jetboy - i have sent an email to each paypal payment letting know what is happening.
This date is for new customers. 
I am 3 days late with your order as anodizing took me 3 days more. So on Monday-Tuesday max will ship all the orders which has been placed before 15th. Reason i have changed it is i am getting more orders so don't want to confuce people. Next batch is large so will cover all the future needs. 
As a sorry for my delay i will include an extra bike gift to each order - like advised in Paypal email (please look there)


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

PM'd. Thnx again Tehan. Keep up the great work.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Warhawk said:


> We have 316 in-stock here. I'll call a few suppliers tomorrow to see if they have any drop-offs of 17-4, if I can't locate any we're stuck with ordering a 12"x12" piece @ $124. We can't order from our supplier because you have to buy a 4'x10' sheet which is well over $5000. Let me know what tooth size(s) you want as we should be able to get 3 or 4 rings out of a 12"x12" plate depending on the tooth size, Thanks - Colin


Hi there! Just saw this bit. If you get a piece of 17-4, I may be interested in getting a chainring from that same material. I would be interested in an SRAM spiderless, 26 or 28 tooth. Thanks. PM me if you want.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

tehan said:


> Hi,
> Sorry i have not looked into here for a while.
> To answer your questions.
> I don't do meterial testing on my own. Manufacturer is doing that for me. You get a certificate with each sheet what properties it has exactly. It's a lot o fun.
> ...


If you really want to push the envelope I would take a trip here Advanced Manufacturing Park - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I have a feeling this is where the most high tech development is being done today, outside black programs of course.
Also have you considered either some scandium doped or Lithium alloyed alu? the lithium alloyed qualities are particulary interesting since its much lighter, I mean if you're hunting grams. Beryllium is also light, and unhealthy.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

so just to let you know how good they are:




 Rider - Marek Konwa. Silver MTB World Champion, National MTB Polish Champion, CX National Polish Champion and so on. It's his personal video, so not moded by me etc.
you can find it also on his Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/marekkonwa
and a jump on the bike as well: Marek Konwa DH Wilkowice - YouTube
If it's good enough for him it will be good for everyone


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

tehan said:


> If it's good enough for him it will be good for everyone


I can't wait to try it out. woot!


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

This is exactly what I want but in a 30T

Ok where can I get one (or two), I live in New Zealand................so a bit harder to source than USA.

Conrad


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

conrad said:


> This is exactly what I want but in a 30T
> 
> Ok where can I get one (or two), I live in New Zealand................so a bit harder to source than USA.
> 
> Conrad


Which ring are you looking for? Absolute Black (tehan) spiderless? I think the USA/RoW covers you. Preorder now. Mine's in the mail. w00t!


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## doco (Aug 31, 2008)

Tehan, any chance of offering your Sram spiderless rings in sliver??

Thanks


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

Shimano 88BCD m985 30T suitable for SS riding. The standard rings are as soft as warm butter.


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

Tehan, it says in your website that black spiderless rings are in stock. Is that updated? Is there a 30T spiderless ready to be shipped if I order? Thanks!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

hahha i am too small for that yet. Same with even more advanced materials. This is too big even for manufacturers like RF or E13. 
So i have to buy what is absolutely best on the market - but commercially available. What you say is another level and i would have to buy tens of tons of material at the start. It would be also really expensive and i honestly doubt anyone would like to shell out 120$ for same ring which is another 5g lighter.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I can ship to NZ same as to USA. I ship everywhere you want, providing there is an address. You option as listed under USA in $.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

uff, ok:
Doco -
i can make you silver if you want. But you will have to wait around a month or so as i just sent all the stuff to anodizing again. If that is ok with you, place an order for black and indicate in paypal description that you wan SILVER. No upcharge for that. 
If someone else wants in silver - let me know in next few days. 

Conrad - i will do 88BCD at some point. Just not yet. Same with 102 bcd. 

Fishcreek - i update my site every single day. 30T Black is on hold for you. So place an order and write your nick in paypal desc so i know it's you.


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## doco (Aug 31, 2008)

Thanks for the help, Tehan


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

This is to show how good retention this chainring has. It's all about the tooth shape which can keep the chain in place. Only 5 links is enough to hold onto absoluteBLACK chainring!! Regular chainrings require at least double that.

Try to do it with yours and see result.

View attachment 802267


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

That is awesome ^^^ . Can't wait for it to arrive!


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

tehan said:


> This is to show how good retention this chainring has. It's all about the tooth shape which can keep the chain in place. Only 5 links is enough to hold onto absoluteBLACK chainring!! Regular chainrings require at least double that.
> 
> Try to do it with yours and see result.
> 
> ...


Looking good tehan. I almost wanna buy it. If I was into alu that is.

Now you gotta look into splash anodizing to be the king of the hill.

its the shizzle


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Believe or not, but i wanted to do few rings in such colours Problem is that no one in my area is making it. These are synthetic dyes quite hard to obtain in Europe, but quite easy in US.

I want to post few more pics as on one German forum someone actually tried that excercise and managed to do it with 6 links on one chainring after several times (he admited)

So here it is with 4 links. This is simply unbeatable with any ring except XX1 as far as i know. This is as far as you can go as there is no chance to make it hold with 3.

Try it on your own chainring and piece of chain and you will understand how much difference it make.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Got my ring today from Tehan - Beautiful quality, everyone at work was admiring it - going to throw it on for tonights race!


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

*Absolute Black Ano*

Got mine today the same color as this-










Although, when i ordered, the Yale Blue looked like this-










I think the blue now is more of a teal. Ring looks great, but, definitely not a blue i was hoping for when i ordered.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

Oh man, I need an absoluteBlack ring in 102 BCD, wish they made it.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

jetboy23 said:


> I think the blue now is more of a teal. Ring looks great, but, definitely not a blue i was hoping for when i ordered.


So sorry about that. Blue is very hard to control on material i use. So sometimes comes light and sometimes darker blue. It's a bit of a gamble with that one only. Red and black always come nice. 
Some people actually appreciated this lighter blue. On the photos it looks more like teal but in reality it's light shade of plain blue.

BUT, to compensate you and keep my customer service on high level i can offer you 50% reduction in price on next ring. So or you want to sell that one (i am sure someone will buy it from you for half price and you will get darker blue - just came in another batch and they are like below. Or you will get yourself another one cheap.

please do let me know o email how you want to proceed.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

102 will be in plans but not just yet. too much other stuff to make first.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

tehan said:


> So sorry about that. Blue is very hard to control on material i use. So sometimes comes light and sometimes darker blue. It's a bit of a gamble with that one only. Red and black always come nice.
> Some people actually appreciated this lighter blue. On the photos it looks more like teal but in reality it's light shade of plain blue.
> 
> BUT, to compensate you and keep my customer service on high level i can offer you 50% reduction in price on next ring. So or you want to sell that one (i am sure someone will buy it from you for half price and you will get darker blue - just came in another batch and they are like below. Or you will get yourself another one cheap.
> ...


You got PM.


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

can i get a half price discount too on my next purchase if i find my black chainring too black


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

If mine was too dark or too light blue, that would be fine. Greenish blue isn't blue. Its teal. And teal is actually a shade of green. I spent a lot of my career worrying about things being color correct (photographer) and i could handle a hue or saturation being off, but, an incorrect color was always an issue.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Wow. 

Some really nice stuff coming out. I am liking Tehan's stuff and attitude. The key to success is to remain predictable in a good way...product and customer service-wise.

Hint hint...


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## blackgriffen_1 (May 18, 2010)

I . . .
hold on . . .
is it possible that you mean . . .
This:

http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/homebrewed-components-694887.html

???


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

that was good example how to not do a business. Taking orders, doing marketing etc. and manufacturing at the same time by the same person does not go long as we have seen.

I think everyone took a lesson from that.

I have a specialist company who mill them for me so i can focus on making everything else like designing, taking orders or writing here on the forum This gives me ability to scale my business like i am doing just now by adding a person who prepares all the parcels for you as i still need to keep my focus on designing new parts


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## LucasARG (Dec 29, 2010)

¿Do you like them? I can't wait to build up the bike and ride!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi,
I am pleased to announce that 104BCD rings are now available to pre-order on the website.
I will do my best to deliver them like advised on the site:

XX1 STYLE - Shimano


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Some nice rings coming... more middleburn splines please.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

What's the shipping time to the US on the Absolute Black rings? I just exploded my ring today so I'm looking for a replacement since the ring I ordered last June still hasn't showed up.


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

if it is in stock, he will ship it the next day. uk shipping in my experience takes a week to arrive. two weeks the most depending on what shipper was used.


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## LucasARG (Dec 29, 2010)

These ones are from a friend


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

ouch. 
I will have mine ready be end of the month. If you can wait that time then great.
I am ironing some last details on the cnc process and will start production of 104BCD rings next week hopefully.


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

got mine in less than a week, beautiful ring. thanks tehan!


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## WolfTooth (Nov 5, 2009)

Ouch for SURE! There is a good reason we don't strip out every bit of material out of our rings to save 10 grams=)

We have 104BCD Drop Stop (wide/narrow tooth) rings in stock and shipping immediately!

WTC
wolftoothcycling.com


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm not sure, I bet someone could get one link to hold onto a chainring if they had to-but is that the point? 

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

You can strip a lot of material when you do it clever. No need to run heavy stuff as light one can stand same forces providing it's a good design.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

4 links are minimum. Actually i made one which can hold on 3 links but it's too much of machining. 
Less than that is not possible unless you make it soo tight that you have to push them there.


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## wattiez (Jan 27, 2011)

Tehan/Wolftooth, what are the chances of producing a spiderless Hollowgram chainring?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

soon i will have them. There is few other products down the line as well.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Tehan, are you going to do a middleburn spline spiderless ?


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

ozzybmx said:


> Tehan, are you going to do a middleburn spline spiderless ?


Yes...was just going to post the same question.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

that one is not easy. Offset is huge so waste of material is huge as well. Thus for now i don't want to do it. Original ring is stamped so it's cheap to make but i can't make just few that method.

btw, i have just added next product.

Just added a new product:
BASHRING


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## Warhawk (Jun 9, 2005)

*middleburn splined spiderless chainrings*



ozzybmx said:


> Tehan, are you going to do a middleburn spline spiderless ?





finch2 said:


> Yes...was just going to post the same question.


We've gotten alot of requests for this since we launched our SRAM and Shimano splined chainrings so we have recently added the middleburn spline to our chainrings and have finished testing them. They are available for pre-order on our website, Thanks - Colin


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks Colin....I noticed you said the standard is 7mm offset....is that for the ST and ISIS? Cheers. Are all the offset options from 1mm and up available? If so that opens up a lot of tuning options for chainline.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

You are champ Colin. Order will be through later today when I get time to decide over Ti or ano'd bling dog :thumbsup:


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

tehan said:


> that one is not easy. Offset is huge so waste of material is huge as well. Thus for now i don't want to do it. Original ring is stamped so it's cheap to make but i can't make just few that method.


Offset ??? The middleburn offset is crazy, they changed it from dished in to dished out over the space of a year for F-nose what reason. My homebrewed chainrings are basically flat, maybe 1-2mm inward offset.... why cant you offer these ??? I own 4 sets of Middleburn and have 3 completely different offset and dished UNO rings somewhere here, dished out there's no room for a chainguide, dished in they hit the chainstays or on my fatbike, rubs the chain on the tyre when on the big ring at the back.

Offer an 1-2mm offset ring as standard and offer a larger offset and charge more for the bigger offset.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

if 1-2mm is ok then i can do that. even 4-5mm would be no problem but last time i saw few their rings it looked like 12mm or more. 
So if such small offset works then i can do something about that.


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## Warhawk (Jun 9, 2005)

*middleburn splined chainring s*



ozzybmx said:


> You are champ Colin. Order will be through later today when I get time to decide over Ti or ano'd bling dog :thumbsup:


Sounds good, just let me know if you have any other questions. This ring is available with zero offset or 1-2mm offset which is basically a flat chaining like they should be, Thanks - Colin


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

tehan said:


> Chainrings


Not related to chainrings, but I just looked at your site and it's _gorgeous_.


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## dinoadventures (May 2, 2008)

Does anyone know where I can get a 20T cog made for a Profile hub spline? Tehan? Warhawk?


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## DrewM (Jan 8, 2007)

*Cogs!*



dinoadventures said:


> Does anyone know where I can get a 20T cog made for a Profile hub spline? Tehan? Warhawk?


I am also curious about cogs in general...

My 22T Stainless cog from Homebrewed is on its last lets - but no one seems to be making 1/8" (or 3/32" for that matter) cogs in that size.

Options? Not riding aluminum - was looking at Niner-Ti would rather support a small manufacturer.

Thanks!

-D


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## byrot (Nov 1, 2012)

To my door in less than a week.

Beautiful!


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## cdn-dave (Jan 6, 2007)

byrot said:


> Beautiful!


wow, that is nice...


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Ok, So i am pleased to announce that Tune has become my German Distributor. You will have a chance to see the products at Eurobike at Hall A2, booth 301 if anyone is in Europe at the moment. 
Soon you will see much more products to come from that cooperation


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## cdn-dave (Jan 6, 2007)

+1

I am so tempted to visit Eurobike again this year, not too far from me =)

How is the Shimano spiderless version coming along? Hopefully with your expanding business you can still make some time for this niche-niche market!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

i promise i will do them at some point. Hopefully this year. There is few products in the line first as they are more "important". Once that is done i will start making all the niche ones as it's lots of fun seeing people on these old school cranks.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Any plans to do 102mm BCD rings?


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## yxan (Oct 3, 2008)

is anyone going to pick up the slack of producing Ti rear cogs?


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

I found one but rather not post anything yet until i know that he can meet the demand or just plain reliable.


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## cdn-dave (Jan 6, 2007)

*Absolute Black on the splash page!*

Not affiliated in any way, just giving credit where its due :thumbsup:

Tehan, this pic is from a regular email I get from the German 'Bike' magazine, this one promoting Eurobike.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

haha - i didn't see that earlier! thanks for posting that.


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## rsolti13 (Apr 23, 2012)

Any update on Hollowgram ring? I am ready to buy


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

3-4 weeks. I have tons of work at the moment.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

So, we are giving some chainrings for free

go to the Fb page so you may grab one for yourself if you are lucky.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/absoluteBLACK/115426098560064


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

Your giveaway is prejudiced against people that don't have a Facebook account.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

well, Fb allows to do it most efficiently. I have customers from whole world not just from mtbr, so most convenient way is to do it there like every other company does. 
Sorry if you can't use it. But guess what - i will take your vote as well in account when drawing the chainrings.


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

Yeah I understand, and thanks.


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## Gonzo 1971 (Apr 9, 2013)

Good looking rings! Good to see you on FB. Being a machinist I dig the leafing. I like the artfully "raw" look of it.


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## thing (Oct 29, 2007)

I just got my absolute black chain ring I love it


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Hurry up and make a 102mm ring!


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## blantonator (May 6, 2007)

bad mechanic said:


> Hurry up and make a 102mm ring!


this


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

102mm rings are now in production guys. They will look like my Shimano xx1 rings with exception of mounting holes designed specifically to M960 crank. Price will be same as my current offerings. 32&34 for now. Later on maybe other sizes.


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## blantonator (May 6, 2007)

tehan said:


> 102mm rings are now in production guys. They will look like my Shimano xx1 rings with exception of mounting holes designed specifically to M960 crank. Price will be same as my current offerings. 32&34 for now. Later on maybe other sizes.


you should make a 36T too.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Apparently HBC has hopes of a positive future, via their latest FB post. What do you guys think of that? Would any of you go back to HBC if their track-record improved? (simply asking, not meaning to threadjack  )


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## WolfTooth (Nov 5, 2009)

Hey All,
I know some of you relied on HBC for extending the life of one of the best cranksets ever, the Shimano XTR M960.

Well, we now have 102 BCD rings in 32 and 34t available and shipping: 102 BCD Chainrings for XTR M960 | wolftoothcomponents.com

Cheers!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I see that not only me reads customers replies! 
It's always nice to have a little competition

36T will be added as well shortly.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

So, for those who wonder how absoluteBlack xx1 chainring behaves in real ride, here is my personal clip from one of the trails in Woburn Sands woods, UK.

Bike was equipped with 38T shimano xx1 style chainring, older version of X-0 rear mech with short cage (non clutch) and a bit too long chain. I only used bottom half of the cassette to create more slack on the chain, to show that even this is not enough to drop the chain.

Watch in full HD!


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## mbeardsl (Sep 9, 2009)

ANY chance of a 38t spiderless ever making it to production from anyone?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

yes, but it will be more expensive. It's in the works. 
Main reason no one is doing it, is price and flexibility of such piece. I am just designing special pattern to make it stiff and still reasonably light. 
The goal here is to have it light enough to be competitive with spider+chainring combo and stiff enough compared to spider solution. The bigger you go the harder it is to make.


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## mbeardsl (Sep 9, 2009)

I may be alone but my draw to spiderless is prioritized by lack of chainring bolts to break, clean look, and fewer items to creak. I could care less about saving some grams or paying extra. If you need a paying customer to test one out I am your guy


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

haha ok, got it. The reasons you mentioned are the ones we all make spiderless solutions. But like i wrote before, the bigger you go the more difficult it becomes. But we are working on this.


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