# Muc-Off Launches Tubeless Valve Stem With AirTag Holder - Covert security system inside your tire



## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

Nope


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## flgfish (11 mo ago)

I like the out of the box thinking, but adding rotational mass seems to be the opposite of what most people want to do…


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

flgfish said:


> I like the out of the box thinking, but adding rotational mass seems to be the opposite of what most people want to do…


Exactly..


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## EliminatorMTB (Apr 28, 2009)

Pretty interesting concept, I doubt thieves will be ripping tires off to look for tracking devices when they're giving the bike a quick look for one. I assume at most speeds the extra weight causing the wheel to be off balance is not noticeable at most riding speeds unless maybe on fast road sections or fire roads. I wonder if the sealant will offset to self balance similar to the way balance beads work for motorcycle/car applications, although I have not had good experiences with those...


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

While it is a good location for the Airtag to be hidden and transmit (and if a thief opens up the tire to discard the Airtag, it disables the bike from being immediately ridden), I’m concerned about 1) added wheel mass and balance; and 2) the fact it sticks out beyond the diameter of the rim, and what happens when you hit a rock/root/square-edge on that spot.


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## Josh Patterson (Nov 23, 2005)

DtEW said:


> While it is a good location for the Airtag to be hidden and transmit (and if a thief opens up the tire to discard the Airtag, it disables the bike from being immediately ridden), I’m concerned about 1) added wheel mass and balance; and 2) the fact it sticks out beyond the diameter of the rim, and what happens when you hit a rock/root/square-edge on that spot.


All very valid concerns.


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## Octopuss (May 30, 2020)

Even more ridiculous Apple bullshit? No thanks.
Also does it have a batter or something? I don't see any useful explanation how it works. 

And who the hell does periodically opens a tire to waste all the still perfectly fine sealant?
This stinks.


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## Josh Patterson (Nov 23, 2005)

Octopuss said:


> Also does it have a batter or something? I don't see any useful explanation how it works.


Think of an AirTag as a coin battery that transmits a Bluetooth signal.


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## Tone No Balone (Dec 11, 2004)

Subscribed. Just bought a new bike and live near Santa Cruz…….
Need I say more?


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## RickJames5 (8 mo ago)

Buy the Fillmore valves instead! You'll thank me later or immediately


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

That looks like a fantastic way to demolish a rim... 

I can only imagine what this will do to your rim when you rock strike or land on the valve stem.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

FrankS29 said:


> That looks like a fantastic way to demolish a rim...
> 
> I can only imagine what this will do to your rim when you rock strike or land on the valve stem.


What about the airtag? Seems like a really dumb place to put an electronic device if you ask me. Maybe I'll strap another to the inside of my mudguard and see which dies first. smh


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

There are some FAQs on the product page:

*Will the system cause any damage to the AirTag? - Over the course of 6+ months of extensive real-world testing inside many different wheels we haven't experienced any damage to the AirTag as a result of using the Tubeless Tag Holder. The built in sacrificial and compressive layer integrated into the system has been designed to ensure impacts are minimised to help protect your rim and the AirTag.*


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

let's not forget that airtags themselves are somewhat problematic.

being that airtag stalking is a thing and I wouldn't be surprised if they get nerfed into oblivion because of it.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Harold said:


> let's not forget that airtags themselves are somewhat problematic.
> 
> being that airtag stalking is a thing and I wouldn't be surprised if they get nerfed into oblivion because of it.


Thought about this and found an article...they're adding features to at least reduce these incidents, but that'd also mean the airtags would lose much of their stealthy anti-theft capability if it's as easy as pinging for unknown tags and having them emit a sound. I don't fully understand how that would work without possibly having a bunch of random airtags go off in a crowded area if there are several in range, which would be annoying at best. (or maybe I'm just misunderstanding what they're saying?)









An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking


Apple announced it has identified even more ways to update AirTag safety warnings and help guard against unwanted tracking of people and property.



www.apple.com


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## toyotatacomaTRD (Apr 4, 2012)

Harold said:


> let's not forget that airtags themselves are somewhat problematic.
> 
> being that airtag stalking is a thing and I wouldn't be surprised if they get nerfed into oblivion because of it.


If you wanted to track someone, you could go to Amazon and search gps tracker and sift through pages and pages of options. All of which wouldn't tell the person being tracked and give a real time location along with history of where they were. Airtags definitely are a problem, but getting rid of them wouldn't solve anything really.


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## jrhone (May 23, 2011)

Alot of misconceptions about Airtags out there and in this thread. The Airtag uses the SAME concept as the Tile just a much larger network. I have never heard of someone saying the Tile is a stalking device. The anti stalking features kick in when an airtag is around you for a long time without the owner around. So this wouldnt kick in for a while. You would have some time to try and locate your bike before this happened. I use them and they work great. No issues. They have a watch battery inside and that lasts about a year. They also weigh almost nothing. Its an interesting idea to out one in the wheel. Id like to see more data on the wheel balance as well as how it holds up as well as the possible damage to a rim.


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## jrhone (May 23, 2011)

noapathy said:


> Thought about this and found an article...they're adding features to at least reduce these incidents, but that'd also mean the airtags would lose much of their stealthy anti-theft capability if it's as easy as pinging for unknown tags and having them emit a sound. I don't fully understand how that would work without possibly having a bunch of random airtags go off in a crowded area if there are several in range, which would be annoying at best. (or maybe I'm just misunderstanding what they're saying?)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If the owner of the airtag is around their Airtag (or their phone actually) they are the only person that can ping it. So no you cant say ping all airtags in an area because the owner should be around. Also the only time you can ping an airtag that isnt yours is if its been following you for a long period of time WITHOUT the owner around it. Like is someone slipped it in someones bag or attached it to someone’s car. So again if you get an alert that says an airtag has been following you for a while only the person being followed or the airtag owner can ping it.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Octopuss said:


> And who the hell does periodically opens a tire to waste all the still perfectly fine sealant?


Explain please...why does opening a tire waste all the sealant?


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## jrhone (May 23, 2011)

More facts for the thread…Airtags weigh 11 grams.


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## Jeremy05 (Oct 31, 2020)

baker said:


> Explain please...why does opening a tire waste all the sealant?


 I have opened many tires and reused the sealant. I’m also interested if there is a reason not to do this.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Jeremy05 said:


> I have opened many tires and reused the sealant. I’m also interested if there is a reason not to do this.


Maybe it's like a tennis ball where once you open the can...ah, nevermind. There's no reason unless you're just super clumsy and spill it all over.


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## spaightlabs (Dec 3, 2011)

flgfish said:


> I like the out of the box thinking, but adding rotational mass seems to be the opposite of what most people want to do…


A great way to remove rotational mass is to have your bike stolen. 0 rotational mass. 😉


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jrhone said:


> Alot of misconceptions about Airtags out there and in this thread. The Airtag uses the SAME concept as the Tile just a much larger network. I have never heard of someone saying the Tile is a stalking device. The anti stalking features kick in when an airtag is around you for a long time without the owner around. So this wouldnt kick in for a while. You would have some time to try and locate your bike before this happened. I use them and they work great. No issues. They have a watch battery inside and that lasts about a year. They also weigh almost nothing. Its an interesting idea to out one in the wheel. Id like to see more data on the wheel balance as well as how it holds up as well as the possible damage to a rim.


Family alleges AirTag was used to stalk mother and daughter on Disney World trip | AppleInsider 

‘I was just really scared’: Apple AirTags lead to stalking complaints | Technology | The Guardian


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## toyotatacomaTRD (Apr 4, 2012)

Harold said:


> Family alleges AirTag was used to stalk mother and daughter on Disney World trip | AppleInsider
> 
> ‘I was just really scared’: Apple AirTags lead to stalking complaints | Technology | The Guardian


You have brought it up a couple times in this thread now and it's definitely getting a lot of play in the news. But here is an article from 2003 where gps trackers were being used to stalk people. Are airtags a problem? Yes. Are they the only source of the problem? Definitely not.






Stalkers Use GPS to Track Victims


MILWAUKEE — Connie Adams found it impossible to escape her ex-boyfriend. He would follow her as she drove to work or ran errands. He would inexplicably pull up next to her at stoplights and once tried to run her off the highway, authorities said. When he showed up at a bar she was visiting for […]




www.wired.com


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## flgfish (11 mo ago)

spaightlabs said:


> A great way to remove rotational mass is to have your bike stolen. 0 rotational mass. 😉


I’ve never viewed an AirTag as a theft deterrent, and it seems like you could stash one in the steerer or grip end a lot easier than in a tire. 🤷‍♀️


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

toyotatacomaTRD said:


> You have brought it up a couple times in this thread now and it's definitely getting a lot of play in the news. But here is an article from 2003 where gps trackers were being used to stalk people. Are airtags a problem? Yes. Are they the only source of the problem? Definitely not.


The issue with these and the stalking thing is that they're cheap and they're easy to use. The way they work makes the "network" a lot more widespread than tile devices. The fact that they are so inexpensive and easy to use makes it very easy for people to experiment with other uses for them, including but not limited to stalking. That reason alone brings more concern than for the more traditional "gps tracker" type devices which are more expensive and not as simple to use/implement for the purpose.

Apparently, people didn't get my reference to "nerf into oblivion" but by that I meant that Apple taking steps to make them more difficult to use for stalking (Apple itself has admitted taking these steps) will also make them less useful for purposes beyond the "find your keys" sort and make them less attractive to people to buy to experiment with. That may well end up being a death knell for them (not an immediate one, but probably a slower one). I only posted articles because @jrhone expressed doubts that they are used to stalk at all.

I also have strong doubts about their long-term viability for use in theft prevention or recovery. It's not difficult to defeat something like this. And while hiding it inside your tire makes that more difficult, inside the tire as a hiding place has its own very real drawbacks.


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## toyotatacomaTRD (Apr 4, 2012)

Harold said:


> The issue with these and the stalking thing is that they're cheap and they're easy to use. The way they work makes the "network" a lot more widespread than tile devices. The fact that they are so inexpensive and easy to use makes it very easy for people to experiment with other uses for them, including but not limited to stalking. That reason alone brings more concern than for the more traditional "gps tracker" type devices which are more expensive and not as simple to use/implement for the purpose.
> 
> Apparently, people didn't get my reference to "nerf into oblivion" but by that I meant that Apple taking steps to make them more difficult to use for stalking (Apple itself has admitted taking these steps) will also make them less useful for purposes beyond the "find your keys" sort and make them less attractive to people to buy to experiment with. That may well end up being a death knell for them (not an immediate one, but probably a slower one). I only posted articles because @jrhone expressed doubts that they are used to stalk at all.
> 
> I also have strong doubts about their long-term viability for use in theft prevention or recovery. It's not difficult to defeat something like this. And while hiding it inside your tire makes that more difficult, inside the tire as a hiding place has its own very real drawbacks.


The examples you showed, both instances, the person it was on was notified. In the case of a GPS tracker (which have now been shrunk to similar sizes), is that they don't have that ability. In addition, if someone wanted to maliciously use an AirTag, they'd have to setup with a completely anonymous apple device, otherwise, when that person uses it to stalk, someone discovers it, it'll give their identity. That absolutely can be done, but it's probably not the best way to stalk someone, but definitely the one that's getting the most attention at this moment. 

You're also completely ignoring that Samsung and Android have the exact same devices (same size and everything), but they don't have the built in stalker warnings that apple do. If an iPhone user sits on public transportation someone drops a Samsung Smart Tag in their bag, they can tracked without being notified and it pings off other android devices, just like the AirTag pings of apple devices. However, if someone with an Android phone has someone toss an AirTag in their bag, they have the option to download the Apple AirTag app on their android, and it will let them know.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

toyotatacomaTRD said:


> The examples you showed, both instances, the person it was on was notified. In the case of a GPS tracker (which have now been shrunk to similar sizes), is that they don't have that ability. In addition, if someone wanted to maliciously use an AirTag, they'd have to setup with a completely anonymous apple device, otherwise, when that person uses it to stalk, someone discovers it, it'll give their identity. That absolutely can be done, but it's probably not the best way to stalk someone, but definitely the one that's getting the most attention at this moment.
> 
> You're also completely ignoring that Samsung and Android have the exact same devices (same size and everything), but they don't have the built in stalker warnings that apple do. If an iPhone user sits on public transportation someone drops a Samsung Smart Tag in their bag, they can tracked without being notified and it pings off other android devices, just like the AirTag pings of apple devices. However, if someone with an Android phone has someone toss an AirTag in their bag, they have the option to download the Apple AirTag app on their android, and it will let them know.


I'm not ignoring anything. The thread is about airtag holders. so I referred to airtags. all devices like them have similar issues. Apple is higher priority and has made changes as a result of some of those issues. That android app is really quite new. Other companies haven't made important changes to address these concerns. But all of these devices have concerns.

Sizes aside, the standalone gps trackers are still more expensive to purchase, set up, and run. this will keep them as a less common stalker enabler. until/unless the cost comes down and/or new tech makes them easier to use. none of these things invalidate the fact that gps trackers have similar issues when used this way, too. but it also doesn't invalidate the issues with airtags.


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

So what alternatives are there for mounting the airtags? Under the seat is an obvious one. Inside metal frames or handlebars wouldn't work. What about carbon fiber frames or handlebars? Inside the grip right at the end? For bikes with downtube compartments, attached to the inside of the hatch?


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Any tracker is susceptible to abuse. If you want to allow people to track their stuff, it also opens up the possibility of being used surreptitiously. This particular device is difficult to "Sneak" onto someone's bike so stalking is unlikely to be an issue with here.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

It's a big enough pain in the ass dealing with mounting tubeless tires already. Adding a big piece around the stem just seems like a huge headache.


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## jrhone (May 23, 2011)

Harold said:


> I only posted articles because @jrhone expressed doubts that they are used to stalk at all.


I absolutely know people are using them to stalk people. My point was there are lots of other things out there that are more dangerous stalking devices.

Also Apple NEVER advertised this as an anti theft device. This is designed to keep track of your stuff. People are trying to find more uses for them because they are inexpensive. 

What would be cool is if this sort of thing can be put into frames, car chassis, that sort of thing. Like a built in lojack. If some manufacturers partnered with Apple and said we want to develop hardware thats on the Airtag network. Maybe down the road you buy a bike then pair the frame and you can track it. Your new car. Pair it and it can be tracked. Parents can track kids cars. Etc. Its very early in its development but judging by the success this looks like it wipl develop into bigger and better things .


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## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

toyotatacomaTRD said:


> However, if someone with an Android phone has someone toss an AirTag in their bag, they have the option to download the Apple AirTag app on their android, and it will let them know.


Sorta true, but effectively false. Apple's airtag app for android does not run passively nor constantly. you have to manually launch the app, and tell it to scan. about 3 or 4 minutes later it is done scanning, and is no longer searching for anything whatsoever. who is gonna make a habit of launching the app and running it periodically every day? 

its utterly worthless.

its also worth noting that android in the US has a 52.9% market share, with apple at 47.1 (2021 numbers.) The ratio is skewed FAR further in the rest of the world, with apple being a much more distant 2nd. moral of the story, most of the world has no idea if/when an airtag is being used to stalk them, nefariously or not.

all that aside, i personally find it much easier to simply not be that guy who leaves expensive property in an open garage, or other insecure places. no fancy tracker needed, and my bikes are always where i intend for them to be.

correction, took 1 minute 35 seconds for a scan. it just feels like much longer (thats what she said?)


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## Pooner El Ray (8 mo ago)

Neat idea. But it seems having the Airtag mounted on the bottle cage or hidden inside the bottom of the steerer tube is a more practical and easier method to install. Replacing the Airtag would mean I would have to take the tire off, which is something I don't particularly enjoy doing unless I am replacing a worn tire or cleaning out sealant. Not fun.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

DtEW said:


> While it is a good location for the Airtag to be hidden and transmit (and if a thief opens up the tire to discard the Airtag, it disables the bike from being immediately ridden), I’m concerned about 1) added wheel mass and balance; and 2) the fact it sticks out beyond the diameter of the rim, and what happens when you hit a rock/root/square-edge on that spot.


under the saddle above the post as a black lump, no one is gonna really notice it there
and it can transmit under there


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## EliminatorMTB (Apr 28, 2009)

Thoreau said:


> all that aside, i personally find it much easier to simply not be that guy who leaves expensive property in an open garage, or other insecure places. no fancy tracker needed, and my bikes are always where i intend for them to be.


Yeah the person that leaves they're nice new $10k bike on the rack in the parking lot while they go sit down and eat lunch should've know better.... I get what you're saying but I see quite a few posts where bikes are stolen from locked garages not all victims can be blamed. There have also been reports of people having their bikes stolen off the rack or back of the truck at stoplights. Its unfortunate we have to worry about such things.


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

EliminatorMTB said:


> Yeah the person that leaves they're nice new $10k bike on the rack in the parking lot while they go sit down and eat lunch should've know better.... I get what you're saying but I see quite a few posts where bikes are stolen from locked garages not all victims can be blamed. There have also been reports of people having their bikes stolen off the rack or back of the truck at stoplights. Its unfortunate we have to worry about such things.


Or at gunpoint.


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## LarryMagoo (12 mo ago)

Just stick the Air Tag under the saddle...Problem solved and NO ONE would even look at that location.....


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## LarryMagoo (12 mo ago)

127.0.0.1 said:


> under the saddle above the post as a black lump, no one is gonna really notice it there
> and it can transmit under there


Hey Eatmore, I did not see your post until they posted mine...did not mean to copy you....it just makes sense at that suggested location...


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

RickJames5 said:


> Buy the Fillmore valves instead! You'll thank me later or immediately


i installed Fillmore valves a few days ago and I'm not a fan... I'm going to lose those caps and I prefer being able to remove the core to seat a tire with my compressor. That lets me use a Schrader Chuck which flows more air than a Presta Chuck. These will be removed on my next tire change and I'll go back to the Muc-Off valves.


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## LarryMagoo (12 mo ago)

Shamis said:


> i installed Fillmore valves a few days ago and I'm not a fan... I'm going to lose those caps and I prefer being able to remove the core to seat a tire with my compressor. That lets me use a Schrader Chuck which flows more air than a Presta Chuck. These will be removed on my next tire change and I'll go back to the Muc-Off valves.


Plus the hassle of trying inject tire sealer past that inner stem….I returned mine before I opened them up when I thought of that issue….I also seat my tires with a Schrader valve air chuck for the very same reasons….plus every LBS carries Presta valves in stock if you get in a jam….


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## towmahs (Feb 19, 2015)

Octopuss said:


> Even more ridiculous Apple bullshit? No thanks.
> Also does it have a batter or something? I don't see any useful explanation how it works.
> 
> And who the hell does periodically opens a tire to waste all the still perfectly fine sealant?
> This stinks.


Umm...hello! There is a very simple procedure for NOT wasting any "perfectly fine sealant". But since you are obviously someone who condemns anything new or creative--without trying it-- I will not waste perfectly good advice.


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