# Help understanding Klein serial #



## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

*22T1197103P*
Anyone know how to read this? Something November 97? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2004)

TheRedMantra said:


> *22T1197103P*
> Anyone know how to read this? Something November 97? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


this should be a 22" (XL) Attitude (T) from November 1997 (1197). Frame number 103. Not sure about the P, thats new to me. Can it be a fourth number, partly filled with paint?

The frame should have a standard 1 1/8" head tube about 150mm long.

Carsten


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

Carsten said:


> this should be a 22" (XL) Attitude (T) from November 1997 (1197). Frame number 103. Not sure about the P, thats new to me. Can it be a fourth number, partly filled with paint?
> 
> The frame should have a standard 1 1/8" head tube about 150mm long.
> 
> Carsten


It is a "P" for sure. Ill have to measure it. I guess 22 does make sense but I measured it as 20 inches. I guess the serial doesn't lie. The head tube is probably about 150mm. Thanks for the help. I figured it would be you who would answer it  .


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*So My Frame....*

with the serial number ending in ...795077

was the 77th frame made in July of 1995?

If only the early numbers made any sence at all.
Carsten: Do you have (or know of anyone that does) the list of bikes that was registered on the old Klein Classics Group?


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## bikerJoe (Jan 21, 2004)

*whoops*



Carsten said:


> this should be a 22" (XL) Attitude (T) from November 1997 (1197). Frame number 103. Not sure about the P, thats new to me. Can it be a fourth number, partly filled with paint?
> 
> The frame should have a standard 1 1/8" head tube about 150mm long.
> 
> Carsten


wrong forum


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2004)

Shayne said:


> with the serial number ending in ...795077
> 
> was the 77th frame made in July of 1995?
> 
> ...


Shayne, 
no, unfortunately it seems that all the info from the old Klein group got lost when it was deleted. I will double check with the owner of that group though, maybe he kept some of the material.

0795077 should indeed be frame no. 77 from July 1995. X = Adroit, T = Attitude, P = Pulse (i have to check again). No idea on Rascal and Fervor, dont have one. In 1992 they did not list the frame size at the beginning of the serial number, only from 1993 on. And all that is only valid for the serial numbers on the underside of the bb shell. The only sense i can see in the early numbers on the rear drop outs is the MK on my MountainKlein and the TG on my Top Gun but the numbers dont make any sense.

Any interest to talk about the serial numbers on the rigid forks? 

Carsten


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

Carsten said:


> this should be a 22" (XL) Attitude (T) from November 1997 (1197). Frame number 103. Not sure about the P, thats new to me. Can it be a fourth number, partly filled with paint?
> 
> The frame should have a standard 1 1/8" head tube about 150mm long.
> 
> Carsten


I measured it again at 20 inches. The guy who sold it to me claimed 20 inches as well. I know Kleins are known to run just a bit smaller than what they claim, but this is 2 inches. The frame was never built and the serial is in perfect condition. Not a scratch. Could the 22 mean something else?


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2004)

TheRedMantra said:


> I measured it again at 20 inches. The guy who sold it to me claimed 20 inches as well. I know Kleins are known to run just a bit smaller than what they claim, but this is 2 inches. The frame was never built and the serial is in perfect condition. Not a scratch. Could the 22 mean something else?


No, it is the size. This is how Klein measured their frames, it can be easily 2" less c-c along the seat tube. Is it an Attitude frame with 1 1/8" head tube? 22" is the largest frame (XL).

Carsten


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Yes, They're Always Smaller*



Carsten said:


> No, it is the size. This is how Klein measured their frames, it can be easily 2" less c-c along the seat tube.
> 
> 
> > 2" difference is about average for Klein's way of measuring. The XS frames I've had were all 4" smaller than their "official" Klein size.


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## eric76mi (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm new to Kleins I had a fisher. I just bought an Attitude with that purple green fade. I checked the serial numbers to try to figure out what I have the number under the cranks is TU136T5. 
So far I love this bike super light awesome paint, I only paid 400 for it xtr components nice shock. Thanks for any input


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Zombie thread of the week award go's to.................


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## top_hustler (Sep 6, 2011)

Can anybody help decipher Adt000116 - is this before they started incorporating production date into the serial numbers?


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Hard to say what it is as for the first years no date info was included. Why not include pictures of the bike and we can figure it out from there.


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## Golite4 (Oct 19, 2011)

Serial # L11921192 "L"is for rascal, nov 1992?


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Assuming that this is the bike:










from this post (https://forums.mtbr.com/8829310-post68.html), then this is a '93. The Rascal name was changed in 94, so they were made from 1990-93 and this paint was only offered stock in 93, so it's a '93.

I have one myself and just this week, picked up a matching stem for it. I had a polished stem but the new stem has matching silver paint. The thread for my bike is here.


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## catskill23a (Jul 4, 2020)

*Klein Pinnacle TEST BIKE serial number*

Hello Trying to figure our year of my Klein Pinnacle TEST BIKE serial number stamped on BB along the edge of the drive-side (K) PTT001777

Suntour XC Comp equip


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

My first thought that this was a '92 since that was the year when silver was a stock Pinnacle color. Test bikes were ones that were given to dealers for demos and weren't something that Klein rode around the trails to see how they worked.

But, based upon the style of lettering in the "Pinnacle" logo, it would appear that this was a '93 model.

Take a look at the the 92 & 93 catalogs for more: https://www.mtb-kataloge.de/html/klein.html


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## catskill23a (Jul 4, 2020)

*Klein rear brake routing "AL Tube in Frame" under seat post*

Thanks for the information on targeting this as a 1993 model. But the rear brake cable routing at the seatpost looks like an older model? It has a AL molded tube under the seat-bolt.


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## catskill23a (Jul 4, 2020)

Also, this bicycle is a 16 inch seat tube center to top or 13 inch center to center. The catalogs only mention making the smallest frames at 18 inches. So i don't understand that.


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## catskill23a (Jul 4, 2020)

*handle bar Klein Test Bike*

I wanted to include a pictures of the handlebar and shifters and brakes. These are all original and look like from the 1980s


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

catskill23a said:


> I wanted to include a pictures of the handlebar and shifters and brakes. These are all original and look like from the 1980s
> 
> View attachment 1346681


early 90s.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Klein had a slightly different way of measuring sizes and would use an imaginary level top tube to determine size.

I rode a 20" but with most other brands, this would have been a 17-18" bike, perfect for someone 5' 8"-11". The 18" Klein is a 14-15", or thereabouts, on most brands, definitely on the small side.

That welded-on cable noodle isn't indicative of an older design rather it was used on the smallest sized frames only. Notice the cable bridge on the model below (ignore the unusual brake design) which was used on frames larger than yours. On the smallest model, there simply isn't room for the bridge.


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## SlowStrokeKing (Jan 23, 2021)

What model is my Klein? Serial Number is M287C.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

SlowStrokeKing said:


> What model is my Klein? Serial Number is M287C.


picture, thousand words. Two pictures, two thousand words. Three....


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