# After an undisclosed fee a new bike arrives to my stable ....



## vizcaino (May 14, 2004)

Hi guys,

This Turner Flux (all turners are immaculately finished and even better this one is HL as well !!!) made his professional debut for Mr. Luis Carretero four months ago, before moving to Mr. Fidel Vizcaino´s stable. The Flux is expected to become one of the greatest stars in Guanajuato Trails and will make his debut as soon as some parts to dress it up arrive.

The Flux arrived to Mexico City last Saturday after an undisclosed fee was agreed. Some pictures can be seen below:










It is a HL Flux !!!!!!.



















I will keep you informed about this topic as soon more news become available !!.

Cheers,

Fidel.


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## Farqui (Nov 18, 2004)

Awesome photo's, keep us posted.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

Well... Congratulations....

But... WTF??? What happened to the Spider?? Is it coming to you? Will you sell it off??

Damn... that's serious UGI.

Before anyone beat me to it... Remove those horrid ICT stickers before you get the entry to the "Homer Nation" denied. You don't know how much Turner owners hate that ICT sticker. Besides... that green color is AWFUL!!

Again... congratulations!!!


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## vizcaino (May 14, 2004)

Warp,

The Spider has arrived to Salamanca. I wasn´t planning to buy a new bike but I was offered this Flux and we agreed terms easily !!!. It will have to wait a bit to get built but I couldn´t leave the opportunity to get the frame.

Cheers,

Fidel.



Warp2003 said:


> Well... Congratulations....
> 
> But... WTF??? What happened to the Spider?? Is it coming to you? Will you sell it off??
> 
> ...


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

vizcaino said:


> Warp,
> 
> The Spider has arrived to Salamanca. I wasn´t planning to buy a new bike but I was offered this Flux and we agreed terms easily !!!. It will have to wait a bit to get built but I couldn´t leave the opportunity to get the frame.
> 
> ...


Wow... awesome stable. Yeti, Intense, Turner... you need to add a Titus to your list.


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## vizcaino (May 14, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> Wow... awesome stable. Yeti, Intense, Turner... you need to add a Titus to your list.


Warp,

A Titus (maybe a Racer X) sounds very nice but my budget cannot afford other bike !!!. Three are enough.

Cheers,

Fidel.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

vizcaino said:


> Warp,
> 
> A Titus (maybe a Racer X) sounds very nice but my budget cannot afford other bike !!!. Three are enough.
> 
> ...


Yeah, right... that's what you said before the Flux. 

Whatever works out best for you, lucky one.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> Wow... awesome stable. Yeti, Intense, Turner... you need to add a Titus to your list.


Warp, he hasn't got enough credits to join the Titus club. Anybody can get a Turner this days, but we Titus owners are the creme de la creme (or however that's spelled  )...


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## vizcaino (May 14, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> Warp, he hasn't got enough credits to join the Titus club. Anybody can get a Turner this days, but we Titus owners are the creme de la creme (or however that's spelled  )...


Roberto is right, my credit is over and cannot join the exclusive Titus Club. I will fill out an application in 2008.

Cheers,

Fidel.

ps. Roberto, has you got the Chameleon ?. Are you going to establish a Santa Cruz Club ?.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> Anybody can get a Turner this days


Since the cereal boxes come with 80% discount coupons on the purchase of a Turner, there had been many people biting the hook. 

Madaleno eats lots of cereal, I think. 

Again... I just don't trust him... he'll end-up with a Racer-X in his stable before the end of the year. Even at the expense of dropping one of the bikes he already owns.

Mark my words (it wouldn't be the first time I have to swallow them anyway).


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

vizcaino said:


> ...ps. Roberto, has you got the Chameleon ?. Are you going to establish a Santa Cruz Club ?.


hmmm... I think that the Santa Cruz is already established, and it's know to roam the SNT trails... I think I'll have to request permision to join them.... I already want my Chameleon!


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

Nobody can stop the Mexico Turner Mafia!!

Any ideas on when it might get built up.

We could hold a serious Homer gathering here now. That isn't Last Biker's frame is it?

PS. I'll give you 10 pesos for an ICT sticker!


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

[

Before anyone beat me to it... Remove those horrid ICT stickers before you get the entry to the "Homer Nation" denied. You don't know how much Turner owners hate that ICT sticker. Besides... that green color is AWFUL!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warp :
The main seller-buyer agreement, between the last biker and vizcaino was keep the ict pegote in place .

They sign special contract , in the chapter number one appears , " THE BUYER IS AGREE TO DONT REMOVE THE ICT PEGOTE FOREVER "

ja ja ja je je je 

the last biker


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

[

Before anyone beat me to it... Remove those horrid ICT stickers before you get the entry to the "Homer Nation" denied. You don't know how much Turner owners hate that ICT sticker. Besides... that green color is AWFUL!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warp :
The main seller-buyer agreement, between the last biker and vizcaino was keep the ict pegote in place .

They sign special contract , in the chapter number one appears , " THE BUYER IS AGREE TO DONT REMOVE THE ICT PEGOTE FOREVER "

ja ja ja je je je 

the last biker


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## vizcaino (May 14, 2004)

tigerdog said:


> Nobody can stop the Mexico Turner Mafia!!
> 
> Any ideas on when it might get built up.
> 
> ...


Tigerdog,

I hope to get it built up in around three months. I am still deciding on the parts to be used. Any suggestions would be very welcomed (You all know that I want it to be as light as possible !!!). Regarding to the stickers, a big auction will take please between the Turner community, the best offer will get them !!!!. Maybe, I can give them to you as an anticipated Christmas present but only if you promise NOT TO DELETE THIS THREAD !!!.

Cheers,

Fidel.

ps. Yes, this bike was in Last Biker´s stable before.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

the last biker said:


> [
> 
> Before anyone beat me to it... Remove those horrid ICT stickers before you get the entry to the "Homer Nation" denied. You don't know how much Turner owners hate that ICT sticker. Besides... that green color is AWFUL!!
> 
> ...


Is that the paragraph where it says that the seller won't mind if he gets paid by rubber checks?

Nice bike, I hope it was a win-win situation for both, it looks like a nice bike.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

vizcaino said:


> Tigerdog,
> 
> I hope to get it built up in around three months. I am still deciding on the parts to be used. Any suggestions would be very welcomed (You all know that I want it to be as light as possible !!!). Regarding to the stickers, a big auction will take please between the Turner community, the best offer will get them !!!!. Maybe, I can give them to you as an anticipated Christmas present but only if you promise NOT TO DELETE THIS THREAD !!!.
> 
> ...


Fidel, regarding build, you can go to any Marti store, but the cheapest Turbo/Mercurio bike you find and transfer all the decent pieces to your new bike. After that, you'll find that the bike ends up weightin in the same as before you started your selection... and will look the same 

I don't have much advice as to what components you should put that fill the 3 B's (bueno, bonito, barato), I'm more used to strong and almost-cheap-o... well, maybe not so cheap, but I don't search by grams.....


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

vizcaino said:


> Tigerdog,
> Any suggestions would be very welcomed (You all know that I want it to be as light as possible !!!).


May I suggest: 
- Extralite cranks 
- X.0 bits with XTR cassette and Dura-Ace/XTR chain with a Powerlink
- Reba Race World Cup or Spinner Aeris Ti fork.
- Stan's ZTR Olympic rims / CK ISO Disc hubs / Sapim C-XRay spokes wheelset
- Formula Oro Puro brakes or Magura Marta SL with Stan's Aluminum rotor and Koolstop Aluminum backing plate pads.
- Schwalbe Nobby Nic 2.1 tyres

The rest I leave it to your personal tastes.


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> May I suggest:
> - Extralite cranks
> - X.0 bits with XTR cassette and Dura-Ace/XTR chain with a Powerlink
> - Reba Race World Cup or Spinner Aeris Ti fork.
> ...


I'd say Reba World Cup (chrome plated) or Pace RC39! That thing is light!
Isn't the Spinner 80mm? And it's a noodle.
Gold I9 hubs and spokes, gold or silver rims (I just want to see them!).
Gold King HS.
Triple-Ti Eggbeaters
Polished XTR Cranks!
Polished Thomson Masterpiece Seatpost
Polished Stem (I'd go Thomson, but you might want something lighter).
Easton CNT Monkeylite SL Bar
Gold skewers and seatpost collar
Oro Puros (more gold).
Nokian Winter tyres with gold studs and diamond tips!
Gold plated rockers
Gold ICT Sticker!

Mmmmmmm, shiny.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

tigerdog said:


> I'd say Reba World Cup (chrome plated) or Pace RC39! That thing is light!..


Nahhh, a Fox 40 or Zocchi 888 would ride pretty well....


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

Does this mean something new in Last Biker's stable?

Another Intense, perhaps?


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> Nahhh, a Fox 40 or Zocchi 888 would ride pretty well....


As long as it's gold or chrome I don't care!


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tigerdog said:


> I'd say Reba World Cup (chrome plated) or Pace RC39! That thing is light!
> Isn't the Spinner 80mm? And it's a noodle.
> Gold I9 hubs and spokes, gold or silver rims (I just want to see them!).
> Gold King HS.
> ...


Anybody asked for shiny, blingy and light???

www.extralite.com

WARNING: This site may cause serious finance problems to weight weenies and bike snobs!!

Drool....


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> Anybody asked for shiny, blingy and light???
> 
> www.extralite.com
> 
> ...


Blingy, yes. Shiny? Not nearly enough. Those E-Bones are black!


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tigerdog said:


> Blingy, yes. Shiny? Not nearly enough. Those E-Bones are black!


Man, that is not matte black... it's shiny under the sun... and you can always polish them to get them and blingy as no other. Anybody asked for light??


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> Man, that is not matte black... it's shiny under the sun... and you can always polish them to get them and blingy as no other. Anybody asked for light??


Weight is far less important than shininess. As an engineer, you should be fully aware that the shinier something is, the faster it goes!


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tigerdog said:


> Weight is far less important than shininess. As an engineer, you should be fully aware that the shinier something is, the faster it goes!


Ahhhh.. that may explain McLaren's new paint scheme.... it just doesn't explains why their best result is a third place so far, though.


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> Ahhhh.. that may explain McLaren's new paint scheme.... it just doesn't explains why their best result is a third place so far, though.


They need to chrome those tyres.


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## triphop (Jul 27, 2004)

I was gonna buy that frame, however I later did some reaserch and found out I needed a large instead of a medium. good thing we didnt agree on a price right away. (besides, I like the annodized orange better) 

OT. last biker: I saw someone riding a Turner flux behind the UDLA a couple of weeks ago; was that you by any chance?? I drove past by in a black jetta with a couple of bikes on top in case it was you and u saw me too.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tigerdog said:


> They need to chrome those tyres.


It's scheduled for next Monaco's Gran Prix. Last year Kimi Raikkonen put some diamonds on his helmet for that race (no sheit, real stuff. McLaren has a diamond seller as sponsor). He didn't win anyway.... but man, he looked trick!!


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

What tha fu... 1 month ago you had a Yeti, now you have a Spyder and a Turner? WTF

Lol, congratulations, even though I don't know If I'm dying of jealousy or crying like a baby.

Please give me the ICT sticker so I can put it in the oldskool GT  (I'm serious)


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

tigerdog said:


> Does this mean something new in Last Biker's stable?
> 
> Another Intense, perhaps?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiger :
In a few days I will go to USA for bussiness trip , maybe two weeks , in the weekends my job description include TTB bikes (try, testing & buy bikes ) ja ja ja

I would like to buy two frames only , I have a lot good parts to build u p the bikes.

If I have time , the Sea Otter Classic is my goal , last year I saw a lot of components , frames and bikes , since I need just two frames I expect no problem .

Turner and Intense are my favorites , maybe two Turners ( 5 spot and Flux small) or maybe Two Intense (Spider & 5.5 ) or one Turner and one Intense , that's all.

Nothing new under the sun

regards.

the last biker , but not the last bike........


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

Great stuff. When I lived in San Francisco I tried to convince my wife that we should go to Monterrey on the weekend of Sea Otter a couple of years back. Once she realised it would be a weekend entirely devoted to all things bike, that was the end of that.  

I hear there are some really good deals to be had there.

Don't forget to take a camera if you go.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

We have a bike smuggler here!!!!

BTW... maybe I'll ask you to smuggle a WTB Rocket V Race saddle for me. Or if you already have a nice narrow saddle - used or new, I don't care - please let me know. My Blade is nice but the saddle (despite being so nice and comfortable) limits my fore-aft weight shifting and it gets spooky at some stair steps or steep stuff.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tigerdog said:


> Don't forget to take a camera if you go.


It seems like we have our own "Mexico Board Sea Otter reporter". Francis will be jealous!!!


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> Please give me the ICT sticker so I can put it in the oldskool GT  (I'm serious)


It is 100% efficient, with zero bob.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Warp2003 said:


> We have a bike smuggler here!!!!
> 
> BTW... maybe I'll ask you to smuggle a WTB Rocket V Race saddle for me. Or if you already have a nice narrow saddle - used or new, I don't care - please let me know. My Blade is nice but the saddle (despite being so nice and comfortable) limits my fore-aft weight shifting and it gets spooky at some stair steps or steep stuff.


Spread eagle? jajaja


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

tigerdog said:


> It is 100% efficient, with zero bob.


Lol!!

Yeah, I'm gonna put some stickers on the fork which say Fox 40, a ICT sticker and maybe some stickers that say Nicolai or Brooklyn Machine Works hahahaha.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> Spread eagle? jajaja


Nah... that was rider induced idiocy... 

I can't hide that I have more bike than skills.


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

Warp2003 said:


> It seems like we have our own "Mexico Board Sea Otter reporter". Francis will be jealous!!!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Warp :
My next job, the Phil Ligget of the city of the camotes .

the last biker


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

You have a lot of skills my man, maybe with the swichblade you have more bike than skill but with the Warp.. well, thats a different story!


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

the last biker said:


> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Warp :
> My next job, the Phil Ligget of the city of the camotes .
> ...


There you go... first world level journalist!!


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> You have a lot of skills my man, maybe with the swichblade you have more bike than skill but with the Warp.. well, thats a different story!


Thanks... you and my mom are the only ones that think it that way...

Hell... you should've seen my wife LITERALLY rolling on the floor laughing at my "Spread Eagle".


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

Warp2003 said:


> We have a bike smuggler here!!!!
> 
> BTW... maybe I'll ask you to smuggle a WTB Rocket V Race saddle for me. Or if you already have a nice narrow saddle - used or new, I don't care - please let me know. My Blade is nice but the saddle (despite being so nice and comfortable) limits my fore-aft weight shifting and it gets spooky at some stair steps or steep stuff.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warp :
Sure , I 'll send you a PM

the last biker


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

tigerdog said:


> I'd say Reba World Cup (chrome plated) or Pace RC39! That thing is light!
> Isn't the Spinner 80mm? And it's a noodle.
> 
> Spinner a noodle? Have you ridden one?
> ...


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

doccoraje said:


> tigerdog said:
> 
> 
> > Spinner a noodle? Have you ridden one?
> ...


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## mtbgiovanny (Feb 13, 2006)

Holly moma of gods and ...
FU**ING SH*T!!!! HOLY MAMA!!! GOD DAMN! THAT'S TOTALY GORGEOUS GIORGIUS.
I'M TOTALLY SPEECHLESS
CONGRATULATIONS
NICE BIKE YOU GOT THERE!


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## mtbgiovanny (Feb 13, 2006)

Holly moma of gods and ...
FU**ING SH*T!!!! HOLY MAMA!!! GOD DAMN! THAT'S TOTALY GORGEOUS GIORGIUS.
I'M TOTALLY SPEECHLESS
CONGRATULATIONS
NICE BIKE YOU GOT THERE!


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

The Aeris would be an awesome match for the Nitrous. That would build a very light FS.


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## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

mtbgiovanny said:


> Holly moma of gods and ...
> FU**ING SH*T!!!! HOLY MAMA!!! GOD DAMN! THAT'S TOTALY GORGEOUS GIORGIUS.
> I'M TOTALLY SPEECHLESS
> CONGRATULATIONS
> NICE BIKE YOU GOT THERE!


Calm down. Its just a turner.........ughhhh wacala 

j/k Very nice bike. Vizcaino is now officialy the UGI king!


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

545cu4ch said:


> Calm down. Its just a turner.........ughhhh wacala
> 
> j/k Very nice bike. Vizcaino is now officialy the UGI king!


I don't know... Last Biker may dethrone him shortly... besides, Last Biker says he has lots of parts laying around at his place. I guess Vizcaino "only" has the bikes.

Too many sick people around here.... Vizcaino, Last Biker, rzozaya, Rocky_Rene... and the list goes on and on.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> I don't know... Last Biker may dethrone him shortly... besides, Last Biker says he has lots of parts laying around at his place. I guess Vizcaino "only" has the bikes.
> 
> Too many sick people around here.... Vizcaino, Last Biker, rzozaya, Rocky_Rene... and the list goes on and on.


What! me sick! nooooo! somebody call 'El Chapulin Colorado'.......

Yep, sickeness do as sickness does....

First simptom is denial, which is good in my case, because I'm definitely NOT sick.


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## vizcaino (May 14, 2004)

the last biker said:


> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tiger :
> In a few days I will go to USA for bussiness trip , maybe two weeks , in the weekends my job description include TTB bikes (try, testing & buy bikes ) ja ja ja
> 
> ...


Luis,

If I were you, I would try to get a small HL Flux and an Intense 5.5.

Happy Hunting !!!!.

Fidel.


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

*tum tum , tum tum tum tum , impossible mission*



vizcaino said:


> Luis,
> 
> If I were you, I would try to get a small HL Flux and an Intense 5.5.
> 
> ...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fidel :
Yes Sir , you 're correct , I want a XC frame (brand new in store,not ebay or similar ) with no more that 4 inch rear suspension :

Options :

a) Intense Spider or Turner Flux small HL and ICT 
b) Titus Racer X

The Spider and the Racer X are more and less easy to get in Calif. or Arizona.
The Impossible Mission is to get a Turner Flux small brand new with the very important (for me ) HL and ICT

The other frame will be 5 inches rear travel :
Options :

A) Intense 5.5(medium ) or Titus Motolite (2005 and brand new with the narrow rear triangle) and Turner 5 spot

B ) Ellsworth Epiphany (I have my doubts , about frames with minimal weigth and long rear travel )

However , first of all , I don't buy nothing without touch-try-measure -talk -look -compare .

The magazines reviews, tests, comments , pics , etc. are excellent support to buy a new frame or bike , but nothing like buy in the store, for me this is a pleasure , as you know.

the last biker


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## vizcaino (May 14, 2004)

Luis,

It is gonna be quite difficult to get the small HL Flux. However, if someone can lead this mission to a successful end, that one is you. Just in the remote case you won´t be able to get the HL Flux, go for a Spider XVP. All Turners are immaculately built, the attention to detail and quality are second to none but being honest, one of the reasons that make decide in buying the Flux was its HL rear, otherwise I would have stayed away. 
Even when people say that both designs perform equally, we know that it cannot be true. Each design has its strenghts and weaknesses, in some aspects one is better than the other and viceversa.

Below, there is a link to an indepent review:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=152506&highlight=TNT

Climbing is so important for a XC purpose. GET THE HL SMAL FLUX !!!.

It is just my personal oppinion.

Cheers,

Fidel.



the last biker said:


> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Fidel :
> Yes Sir , you 're correct , I want a XC frame (brand new in store,not ebay or similar ) with no more that 4 inch rear suspension :
> 
> ...


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

I'd suggest trying the TNT before passing judgement. Madaleno has both.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

I may suggest the Ironhorse MKIII in the 5" category. I know, I know, it ain't high end... but I have heard nothing but good things about it. Really. Evferybody is raving about their suspension and overall quality. They have the Azure in 3.5" travel for the XC-race crowd.

Another bike you can try too, in the 4" arena is the Marin QUAD... again... nothing but good things I've heard off from these bikes.

Both have excellent suspension and especially the Marin has re-made the geometry this year to work out certain details (fixed the high BB and corrected angles of the frame).

Just a couple suggestions. Yeah, those are not high end... but maybe you're losing to try a nice ride by ruling them out for not being boutique frames.

Ironhorse warranty I don't know. Marin has a very good reputation and their bearings are Lifetime Warrantied.

As a matter of fact, if Adrenalinebikes would had shipped to wherever I wanted, I would have ended up with a Marin Rock Springs QUAD TARA. Those are very light too.


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

tigerdog said:


> I'd suggest trying the TNT before passing judgement. Madaleno has both.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tiger :
In the last months ( last year) , when I was ready to buy the Flux , and the tnt born, I was in Illinois , and I had the oportunity to try both rear suspension for 3 days , believe me , for me , is not the same , I think that every biker has different feelings or perceptions about the bikes performance , maybe my feeling is very rough , but I prefer HL hands down. Four months ago the Flux 05 HL was 1795.00 and the 06 tnt was 100 below .

the last biker


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

Warp2003 said:


> I may suggest the Ironhorse MKIII in the 5" category. I know, I know, it ain't high end... but I have heard nothing but good things about it. Really. Evferybody is raving about their suspension and overall quality. They have the Azure in 3.5" travel for the XC-race crowd.
> 
> Another bike you can try too, in the 4" arena is the Marin QUAD... again... nothing but good things I've heard off from these bikes.
> 
> ...


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warp :
Thanks for your comments, yes I know that there are a few super bikes without the sunshine (and price ) of boutique frames , maybe better bikes , really I don`t care if the bike is boutique or not, sometimes I thinking about that the boutique bikes are over priced , really I don`t think that the E.Epiphany frame cost at 2400 dlls.

I like to have bikes for ride in the mountains , to fun , to climb, not for the luxe .
I like trust in my bike when you are 20 miles from your car or the near town .
I like to spend very smart the money (hard earning) in bikes.

I remember when the Tracer FRAME PRICE was the same like the Stumpjumper fsr COMPLETE BIKE and the performance of the both bikes was almost the same , the diference was in the details .

Other wise , I don't know how to say in english........ is better know bad , that unknow good .....gulp.....

the last biker


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

I can't speak for the IH's... but I haven't read about a single broken Marin since the design was launched a couple years ago. That might mean something for your peace of mind.


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## elmadaleno (Jul 8, 2005)

the last biker said:


> In the last months ( last year) , when I was ready to buy the Flux , and the tnt born, I was in Illinois , and I had the oportunity to try both rear suspension for 3 days , believe me , for me , is not the same
> 
> 
> > I think everyone has their own preferences, but I have found that the settings on my shock have a much bigger impact on traction and "feel" than TNT. Right now, the only limit for my climbing ability is my pathetic cardiovascular system, not HL or TNT.
> ...


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

elmadaleno said:


> What we should do is have our own TNT vs HL shootout, we can put the TNT rear end on the flux and have Tigerdog and me do a short loop on both. Problem is, I am too lazy to put the bike apart!


I have a deep love for wrenching on things... don't worry for that. I can set-up the bike(s).

We can install the TNT rear end on Vizcaino's Flux, so Medium sized riders (me) can make a shoot-out too.

I find that there would be a very small difference all-around, from the pure suspension behaviour off my Warp Vs. Blade. Actually... the HL on my Blade does not inspires confidence in those steeps descents with stair-steps. The suspension doesn't squats when braking and it transfers much more weight to the front.

In a brief:

HL - Superior on steep and rough climbs.
SP - Superior for steep and rough descents.
Match for everything else.


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## [email protected] (Jul 13, 2005)

elmadaleno said:


> I think everyone has their own preferences, but I have found that the settings on my shock have a much bigger impact on traction and "feel" than TNT. Right now, the only limit for my climbing ability is my pathetic cardiovascular system, not HL or TNT. QUOTE]
> 
> I think it's a combination of both(shock set up and frame design), but more so the design (especially a good design), which is what ultimately dictates performance.
> Your shock should never have to take on any burden other than optimize an already good design. All it's there to do mostly is dampen.
> ...


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