# ok, so you got a beef with weight weenies?



## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

First of all, I'll just comment on the fact that I've just been noticing (ongoing since joining mtbr) the ridiculous hate towards these claimed and coined "weight weenies".... seriously, what is the deal? is it just part of the American underlying ideals that some were brought up with, that MORE is automatically better, or somehow more masculine as well? garbage if you ask me...
the entire point of this thread I'm putting up here is the fact that I've always been into checking out new parts that are hitting the market or being designed, but I have been very intrigued with the BMX parts in particular. (this may end up being a long post, but I just feel like ranting on these thoughts and ponderings, sorry for drawing it out).

Anyway, this year, among others, it seems that the BMX'ers, 99% of pros and manufacturers included, are the BIGGEST "WEIGHT WEENIES" of them all right now! and I DIG it!
these guys are taking what they like (not necessarily what we like) from each aspect of biking, and using it in their advantage, and shredding! urban/dj/park mtb'ers are just struggling to keep up with the stuff they throw down on their simple "little" bikes.
For the first example, take a look at Tree Bicycle Company. They have some super innovative parts coming up, which all started with their very light and simple sprocket a few years ago (even evil4BC had them custom make him one for a 9-spd chain, which I drooled over quite a bit) Tree:
- Bar-ends that thread into tapped handlebar bores, so simple and strong, why not? 
- 1 piece steerer preload bolt and top cap combined. why are ours separate pcs?
- and best of all, what I'm looking at picking up next, is their "Lite" sprocket that doesn't use a bolt to attach to the crank-arm, but is machined with a 48spline pattern to connect and mate up directly to your spindle! SICK. so light and machined out, the I-beam machining on those is just pure art!!!! but of course, still tough. 
- they also have some sick new hubs coming out.
https://www.treebicycleco.com/newspg.html - look around, nice stuff. man, can't get over the art and function all combined up in that Lite sprocket... 







photo courtesy of their site... check it out, sweet stuff.

And, speaking of hubs, the bmx SS cassette hubs with 1-pc drivers (optional ti too) are amazing, so simple, awesome direct engagement, and still half the price of ridiculous chris blings. not saying they are light though, but still.... better than a nashbar SS hub, haha.
Next, I would just like to mention the Macneil Seat and post innovation, that is just so simple and light why wasn't it thought of earlier, man.... I like that one too.
Take a look at Eastern bikes too, first with the Harvester, now the Grim Reaper and some others... These are "speed-hole" drilled out to the max! and integrated seatpost clamp too. oh, whose using that now? oh, hey, it's blackmarket on the mob. not that it hasn't been used for like 30 years on old bikes too, but who brought it back?
























https://www.easternbikes.com/ - just go to "frames" tab, and look at the grim reaper. The grim reaper even has more cut-out sections. hey, my frame isn't under warranty, since it was a proto anyway, I've thought of attempting some sort of speed hole wizardry myself. maybe over winter.

Take note, current bmx'ers also have no shame in rocking the integrated headsets which 99% of the mtb world shunned as a roadie part and horrible on top of it, including the notorious chris bling! (they just want people to cater to them and their perdido shict) now look whose using it, oh, mtb'ers! after watching bmx convert almost immediately.
Next comes the Spanish BB, which, in fact was designed by bmx'ers. just press it in! simple and light, yet again, hey, now mtb is using it, which makes me glad to see.
Now, also, I have been seeing some pros who have actually been drilling out their rims, like Trials riders. here, we have suspension, and we're all worried about taco'ing a rim cuz our diameters are so huge, so we need more beef, etc... but, then they guys take theirs and drill out unnecessary metal.... and still are landing like 10ft drops to flat on cement. very interesting.... speed holes strike again!
here is a link to one example of a "weight weenie" bmx rig:
https://www.simplebmx.com/bikecheckmitchsite.htm - just note his drilled rims!

Now, look at this guy's bike:
https://www.simplebmx.com/bikecheckjimmysite.htm
Check out his hubs. hard to tell to most, but the guy actually cut down his heavy 14mm rear axle, drilled it out on each end, then tapped it so he could eliminate using heavy bolts and the extra axle sticking out. similar to "fun bolts" idea front too.
He also went through the trouble to shorten his crank spindle to cut even more weight.
somewhere else on that simplebmx site one of the guys took the already "slim" seat of theirs, and shaved out most all of the padding, then stapled the covering back over it. extreme, I've seen it on others bikes too, like eddie cleveland's for example.

check the Odyssey Wombolt cranks on this, as well as the Odyssey Elementary stem. Also, that is one sweet downtube, look at that crease, I dig it... 41thermal processed tubing on that sunday as well as the cranks. and, another thing I liked about it, they are using the Vermont sprocket with integrated bash, but it is mounted backwards to conventional, smooth IMO. logically, you would put more weight on stalls or sprocket grinds on the inside of the chain, not outer...









pic courtesy of sunday bmx's site.

another popular mod is to drill out their seatpost and seatpost clamp with speedholes, and some grind off the excess dropout material too. Man, this is mostly all just custom experimental work too. Heavy use of titanium is also very popular, just to drop weight even further, and hollow chromo stem bolts...

anyway, those are just my examples, and of course "my" opinions, pretty obviously biased in one way or another, so take them how you will. At least take into account what I've mentioned, and think about it next time you call a poster a "weight weenie" for getting 1.95 krad tires instead of some sweet 2.5 hookworms or something.... you have your susp. fork, big wheels, etc. and think you need all the gussets possible on your frame, then just take a look at what's being done in bmx these days... :thumbsup: rad.

lets hear what you think.... if you're too lazy to read the entire thing, no worries, at least click on the links and look at the pics, haha....


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

i cant read.....


holy **** long post


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## turrick (Aug 21, 2006)

Thats a really good post. My bike wieghs 27 lbs and it throws down great for urban, park, trials, bmx track. Good race bike too. I'm to old to huck around a heavy bike anymore.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

turrick said:


> Thats a really good post. My bike wieghs 27 lbs and it throws down great for urban, park, trials, bmx track. Good race bike too. I'm to old to huck around a heavy bike anymore.


hey, thanks for reading! yeah, 27 is pretty light for a 26" street bike, unless it is aluminum or very high grade 4130, and/or rigid (no susp. fork)... also, "too old" is a very relative term, haha. what is ironic is the fact that once you get to the stereotypical "too old" phase, most people have health insurance, but just don't want to "huck". But, the young guns, are all out there hucking it no worries, regardless of health insurance, haha....


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> hey, thanks for reading! yeah, 27 is pretty light for a 26" street bike, unless it is aluminum or very high grade 4130, and/or rigid (no susp. fork)... also, "too old" is a very relative term, haha. what is ironic is the fact that once you get to the stereotypical "too old" phase, most people have health insurance, but just don't want to "huck". But, the young guns, are all out there hucking it no worries, regardless of health insurance, haha....


or live in canada and dont need to worry about health insurance....just go out and huck!:thumbsup:


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

I haven't weighed my DK Dayton, but the websites say it weighs 33 lbs. OUCH!! Thats pretty damn heavy. I'm trying to figure out how to get it down to about 27-28lbs. My guess is lighter wheels, tires, seat, bars, etc. Hopefully its not the frame thats HEAVY.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

My goal for my Nemesis Project: Reach 30lbs, or under. My 416 is currently at 33lbs. And I think I know just where I'll lose the weight.

I'm ditching the dj3 for a Pike
Ditching the front MTX for a Pimp with torque nips
Might ditch the bashguard, it hasn't seen any use all summer long.
I'll use an actual singlespeed rear hub, that is not made by formula(so it isn't unessecarily heavy)
Same goes for front hub
Might switch to higher quality cranks, I'm thinking holzfellers or saints, mine are cr-mo 3 piece, but made by axiom(which means they are strong, but also WAY overbuilt.)
I'm switching to lighter but grippier tires(arrow launch or dmr moto RT, maybe both)


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

just read the full post, very cool points for sure. i like the drilled rims. definitely a cool idea to save some weight. like i've said in a few of my other posts, im a total weight weenie no doubt! im even more of one then my dad who rides road i've done a few things to my bike to save weight and have some other ideas in the future. 

for one im going to convert my bike to SS as soon as possible, then possibly get a true SS rear hub. i got a saint crankset and took off the bash. i use a roadie seat, mite even get a lighter one in the future. my bike at the moment weighs in at around 32-33lbs which i was kind of bummed to find out, i thought it was lighter...(partly because it has slime in the rear tube). i want to get it down to 29-30 when i go SS and have a different tube in the rear. also new bars and stem will come soon which will hopefully help.


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

Good stuff. I have been really surprised by the pro BMX street bikes I have seen or read about recently. They are all REALLY light compared to four or five years ago, but the tricks are bigger than ever. Go figure.

I always tell myself that it's stupid to put Ti bolts on a stem when the bike weighs 30lbs, but I rationalize it and say it's so the bolts don't rust! 

I don't see the point (unless you are on a tight budget) in riding a bike that is way overbuilt for your riding style. Take cranks, for instance - I don't do drops bigger than about 4' when riding street, and my current setup handles crank stalls and missed bunnyhops just fine. If XC ISIS cranks can handle what I currently dish out, why go steel? If I eventually break something, I can put something stronger on.

Good post. 

JMH


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

thanks for checking it out everyone.... still tons of other stuff to add actually, but I cut it off...

for those looking at cranksets that are as strong as normal 3-pc. bmx, but lighter, check out (well if you have the cash, the Easter Titaniums, haha), 
the ODyssey Wombolt Cranks!!!!! Very very awesome. If I had a prob. with my wtp Royals, I'd be swapping them out right now. also, I see that atomlab has a hybrid bmx/mtb external euro bearing chromo crankset out now. I wonder how that is, looks very nice, as long as the spider is removeable. 

Snaky69, you will have no problem getting that NemPro under 30, those frames are light! I'm at 30, and that's with a frame weight of around ~6.2# (after grinding) and a Marz '06 DJ2. - Maybe you would want to go with a PimpLite in the front? the Pimp is heavier than the MTX I believe, and you really don't need anything that wide for street imo. take a look at the Wombolts!

JMH, are you on some m750 xt cranks? I rocked those for quite awhile myself, painted them flat black after sanding... but I don't know what bb you are using, but mine cracked on the side with the fit on threads... cranks were not that bad though. Still have them laying around for another beater ss project.


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

Seriously BikeSATORI, how much caffeine were you on when you wrote that? Just kidding, but anyways I've noticed the trend too. Everybody likes a light bike, but I think the backlash is a result from the explosion in carbon products and all the roadie stuff stirred up by Armstrong. Being a weight weenie is one thing, and we're all guilty of it somehow, but counting weight in the tens of grams is ridiculous. That is just plain overkill. I've heard a few XC guys talk about how light their bike are but when you ask them how much they ride they kind of give an indistinguishable answer. It's become a bragging thing. As for my weight weenie issues, I plan on throwing out my dirt jam pro because that thing is simply a boat anchor.


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## Sprocketeer (Feb 22, 2004)

I would say I'm a weight weenie, but don't think I really qualify. My ride is a Trek 8000 weighing in at 22lbs or less. That's pretty much as light as they get in mountain bikes, but I didn't change components solely based on which are the lightest.

My choice of pedals for instance are the Shimano 959s. These are the best functioning pedals out there in my opinion (as a former ski mechanic) and I chose them while measuring them weight and function-wise against the Time ATAC and the Eggbeaters (both of which failed in my opinion).

My saddle is a Bontrager Race-Lite with titanium rails and a gel dot. I could go lighter or I could have bought the BS about Body Geometry saddles (aint true, don't bother with 'em) which weigh a ton, but ended up with the saddle that fit me the best and provided the comfort difference of titanium (not to mention the overall quality workmanship of the folks at Selle San Marco).

XT vs. XTR crankset? I went with the XT because it's functionally the same damn thing, only a pinch of sand heavier than the XTR, and priced much better (especially in Japan, where I bought it).

I'd say I'm more a fan of the engineering than the weight, but weight certainly matters too. I just wouldn't make a performance or comfort sacrifice in the name of shedding grams.

If you want to shed weight off your ride, start with the rider. If the rider isn't underweight, then don't bother with the trouble and expense of lightening the bike. Losing five pounds from the human body is far cheaper and easier.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Sprocketeer said:


> I would say I'm a weight weenie, but don't think I really qualify. My ride is a Trek 8000 weighing in at 22lbs or less. That's pretty much as light as they get in mountain bikes, but I didn't change components solely based on which are the lightest.
> 
> My choice of pedals for instance are the Shimano 959s. These are the best functioning pedals out there in my opinion (as a former ski mechanic) and I chose them while measuring them weight and function-wise against the Time ATAC and the Eggbeaters (both of which failed in my opinion).
> 
> ...


Hey I agree, function is ALWAYS the number one priority no doubt! not solely weight, that is not where my thread was directed, it was just to point out that losing weight is a main concern of the engineering and design standpoint, which I love to see all these little companies devoting themselves to (mostly always very rider driven as well). 
Sprocketeer, I'm not going to condemn, but I just think your ways stray a bit from those on this urban/dj/park board, but hey, it's all relative to the function of the bike, eh? In this post specifically, i was referring to the term and philosophy of "weight weenie" being used on a street, dirt-jump, or park bike though...
btw- so, you spent some time in Japan? I've lived in Shiga-ken for awhile, as well as Osaka... travelled many other places too of course. will be returning there in the next couple of years or so....


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## Sprocketeer (Feb 22, 2004)

Yeah, I know I'm out of place, but with Freeriders and All Mountain folks calling themselves 'true XC' riders, and me being once again an Urban XC guy (where my roots are anyway) upon moving back to the States and to NYC, I figure this might be my place at least a bit.

Truth be told, I'd like to learn how to do a lot of the urban BMX technical stuff on a mountain bike. This can be done, right?


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## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

BikeSATORI, I never noticed weight cautious people getting bashed. Now yea I've heard them being referred to as "weight weenies" but hell all included referred to themselves as a "weight weenie". With that said I don't see why one would take offence to a remark like that, if one was actually made. If I were one I would be a bit proud, being that passion for the sport drove me to these levels of shedding oz or lbs.

Now you bringing up Tree Co., I love what they're doing to the bike industry. The splined sprocket is bad ass. Another product I don't recall you bringing up that I love is their front staggered hub allowing you to lace the spokes on the inside for grinding. Killer idea along with the rest of their lineup.

A big thanks to you for shedding light on Eastern's frames. I haven't checked them out before but I love the drilled out Grim Reaper frame. Most likely my next frame purchase.
BTW, is there any mtn bike frames out there that have drilled out frames?


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> Snaky69, you will have no problem getting that NemPro under 30, those frames are light! I'm at 30, and that's with a frame weight of around ~6.2# (after grinding) and a Marz '06 DJ2. - Maybe you would want to go with a PimpLite in the front? the Pimp is heavier than the MTX I believe, and you really don't need anything that wide for street imo. take a look at the Wombolts!


I was also thinking of the Pimplite, my rear rims usually get way beat up that's why I went with the pimp, and the only reason i want a pimp up front is to balance tire width and rotational mass, I guess it's more of a looks thing than an actual need.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

ServeEm said:


> BikeSATORI, I never noticed weight cautious people getting bashed. Now yea I've heard them being referred to as "weight weenies" but hell all included referred to themselves as a "weight weenie". With that said I don't see why one would take offence to a remark like that, if one was actually made. If I were one I would be a bit proud, being that passion for the sport drove me to these levels of shedding oz or lbs.
> 
> Now you bringing up Tree Co., I love what they're doing to the bike industry. The splined sprocket is bad ass. Another product I don't recall you bringing up that I love is their front staggered hub allowing you to lace the spokes on the inside for grinding. Killer idea along with the rest of their lineup.
> 
> ...


LIke I mentioned above, there was more stuff to add, but I cut it off....
yeah, I didn't really go into the front BMX hubs since they really don't relate to the MTB area quite as much, and this is an mtb forum.... but, the EJECT Option hub is where it's at right now, we'll see what Tree comes out with next. I don't grind anyway, so I like to see alot of riders nowadays shedding their pegs for more flow and spin tricks...

As far as I know, no, there are no mtb/bmx hybrid bikes that come already with "speed-holes" in them, that is why in that "Eastern26" thread I was pondering the question, when they will come out with the mtb version of the Grim Reaper.... I just might attempt it myself in some minor areas on mine over the winter here.... I won't even go near as extreme as the grim, maybe just a few carefully placed drill bits, haha.... (probably only seattube and bb shell) like I said, my current frame was a cheap proto, so no warranty, and I've already taken the die grind wheel to her in a number of places to chop stuff off and round it down....

and I just noticed your post on the Solid big wheel offering... Never seen it, but I don't really doubt it. Volume has a 26"er, but it's a cruiser straight up, not really my thing. Too bad it's hard to find info on the BMX stuff from interbike. I really like to see all these other companies jumpin' on, just for the sake of a wider range of products out there, also shows some more open'mindedness just for the sake of riding and designing.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

sorry didnt read the hole post or all the comments ((way too much)

but i think that eastern w/ all the cut outs is flatland, ive seen that before. ive heard of 24(ish) pound bmxs, but these guys run pegless brakless, and proby cut everythibg down, a bought ti stuff


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

aggiebiker said:


> sorry didnt read the hole post or all the comments ((way too much)
> 
> but i think that eastern w/ all the cut outs is flatland, ive seen that before. ive heard of 24(ish) pound bmxs, but these guys run pegless brakless, and proby cut everythibg down, a bought ti stuff


well, most of the high end Eastern completes (not flatland) all have cutouts, along with the integrated post clamp. Don't quote me on this, but right now, I don't think Eastern does much in the Flatland world anyway.... I could be very wrong.
Jimmy Rostlund's Simple is around 22lbs.... not flatland.

it's a shame more of you can't read it.... you're already sitting at your computer, what else are you going to do?


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

I've seen some of these BMX guys bunny hop obstacles that look to be 4ft tall. They gotta have a real lightweight bike to do that, right? Please tell me thats the secret, because currently I can only get my bike a few inches off the ground. 

I saw a video where Hamilton hopped over a tall railing, and another where he was riding a manual up to a railing and then hopped up over it from his back wheel. How the f*(&^*(^(*&*( does he do that. A light bike must help.!!


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Well it should be no shock to anyone here that all the new Nemesis Project frames are designed to be as strong and as light as possible . We use the best materials True-Temper butted OX platinum !! 

My new 07 Streetfighter complete I built up to be tough but also to save weight in every area possible ,The parts spec was ment to compliment this way of thinking with the custom I-9 wheels Tree sprocket spanish B/B specific chainguide and new Nemesis sliding disk system . I also opened up the vent areas and used computer tested ovals instead of big hole saw cuts to take as much possible weight out of the inside tube are as possible . We also used thinner straight gauge heat-treated OX platinum chain-stays instead of thicker straight gauge 4130 material to save weight in the rear end . 
We also increased the dia of the seat-stays from 3/4 to 7/8 to improve the rear end stiffness after taking some of the wall thickness out .

Funny that TREE bicycle co was mentioned in your list of companies that are pushing the limit of the weight vs strength game .
After working with Sam on the sprockets for my bike and adapting them to work with our new chain-guide design . ( we also have a new one-piece bash sprocket with TREE pattern being made right now for the guide also ) 
Sam from TREE came to us asking for some engineering help with the light sprocket pictured above , so were currently doing a full 3d solid model of the pattern trying to figure out how we can make Sam's original design lighter and stronger without compromising his design . We here at NP design are very honored to be working with Sam and TREE bicycle co on this project . 

This same type of thinking is what went into the development of our chain-guide .
We have a few more products in the works which feature the light bmx type esthetic wile still using everything we have learned from our outside designs projects .


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Evil4bc said:


> Well it should be no shock to anyone here that all the new Nemesis Project frames are designed to be as strong and as light as possible . We use the best materials True-Temper butted OX platinum !!
> 
> My new 07 Streetfighter complete I built up to be tough but also to save weight in every area possible ,The parts spec was ment to compliment this way of thinking with the custom I-9 wheels Tree sprocket spanish B/B specific chainguide and new Nemesis sliding disk system . I also opened up the vent areas and used computer tested ovals instead of big hole saw cuts to take as much possible weight out of the inside tube are as possible . We also used thinner straight gauge heat-treated OX platinum chain-stays instead of thicker straight gauge 4130 material to save weight in the rear end .
> We also increased the dia of the seat-stays from 3/4 to 7/8 to improve the rear end stiffness after taking some of the wall thickness out .
> ...


hey, glad to see you chime in here, as you are quite obviously more involved in the field than I... very interesting about the collaboration with Tree.... I'm hoping to get one in 25t if they hit by january... 
you wanna let me drill some "speed holes" in your streetfighter? c'mon, I'm real steady with this drill, hahaha... yeah right.  
did you ever put a chain on that bike yet?


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

ServeEm said:


> BTW, is there any mtn bike frames out there that have drilled out frames?


The new StreetFighter I built has much larger outer vent holes on the upper spreader similer to the speed holes on the grim reaper , what you coulnt see Saturday night is the size and way the inner vent holes on the 07" streetfighter are cut .
Both at the seatpost/ toptube area and the tuptube/ headtube and downtube/ headtube junctions we used FEA softwear to product vent ovals that increse streangh wile still removing as much weight as a oversized very hole .
Thes ovals work together with our gussetts to increse streangh and diapate stress from the tube joints to the butted section's of the tube .


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> hey, glad to see you chime in here, as you are quite obviously more involved in the field than I... very interesting about the collaboration with Tree.... I'm hoping to get one in 25t if they hit by january...
> you wanna let me drill some "speed holes" in your streetfighter? c'mon, I'm real steady with this drill, hahaha... yeah right.
> did you ever put a chain on that bike yet?


You cant see them now but the bike is filled with computer designed vent ovals to remove as much weight as possible without comprimising streangh .

Yup ... had to do a bit of extra machine work to the upper lip to add some clearence . 
So I machined a 2mm tall keeping lip into the top edge too so the chain has no way of escapeing .

Been riding the bike all weekend , even crashed Saturday night at mach 9 in some fish guts wile riding in the city and scratched up my Animal Hamiltons all up .









Shino from Grindstate.com and i got to hang out yesterday and ride a bit , there's an interview on his site with me and some cool rideing pics .


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

For some reason that chain looks transparent in that pic Brad.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

snaky69 said:


> For some reason that chain looks transparent in that pic Brad.


New DuraAce plastic chain 1/2 the weight of normal metal ...lol


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

You need to tell me how those hold up to some serious torque. Add a half-link in there and it could very well become my chain on my new bike, it would probably scratch the paint a lot less if it were to slap agaisnt the chainstay.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

snaky69 said:


> You need to tell me how those hold up to some serious torque. Add a half-link in there and it could very well become my chain on my new bike, it would probably scratch the paint a lot less if it were to slap agaisnt the chainstay.


I don't know if you caught it, but he was joking. it's just a 7701 xtr/duraace chain.

are you running gears on yours, Snaky69? don't have to worry about chainslap on an SS, or do you get that on your norco?


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

I still have a rear derailleur and cassette, and I might use them if I go to whistler with the Nemesis next summer. But I plan on running it SS and keeping the derailleur and cassette hub on a seperate rim build for whisler, I think I have a set of rhyno lites lying around I could lace it to.

And no I didn't catch it, I'm too absorbed in too many things to catch on to many things.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

snaky69 said:


> I still have a rear derailleur and cassette, and I might use them if I go to whistler with the Nemesis next summer. But I plan on running it SS and keeping the derailleur and cassette hub on a seperate rim build for whisler, I think I have a set of rhyno lites lying around I could lace it to.
> 
> And no I didn't catch it, I'm too absorbed in too many things to catch on to many things.


JEEEEEEZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz Satori why YOU hatin on Snaky like that :nono: 
 Everyone's SO sensitive now ... what happened to the fun


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Evil4bc said:


> JEEEEEEZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz Satori why YOU hatin on Snaky like that :nono:
> Everyone's SO sensitive now ... what happened to the fun


hey man, it just snowed on my little town. I'm pissed. 
no no, hahahah, just kidding, no beefs, no worries, I don't know where I came off edgy? wasn't hatin'.


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm totally with you Satori. When I get my 24 I'm slowly gonna make it lighter and lighter as money allows.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> hey man, it just snowed on my little town. I'm pissed.
> no no, hahahah, just kidding, no beefs, no worries, I don't know where I came off edgy? wasn't hatin'.


Ahhhhhh hahahahahaha  LOL J/K 
A little fun on the boards today brings a big smile to my face  
I went to the bike shop and weighed the new SF complete it came to 32.50 which on their scale means more like 32.0-32.25 lbs not bad for having the bones cranks with steel spindel , saint der and the chainguide which all arnt designed to be light in any way shape or form .


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Evil4bc said:


> Ahhhhhh hahahahahaha  LOL J/K
> A little fun on the boards today brings a big smile to my face
> I went to the bike shop and weighed the new SF complete it came to 32.50 which on their scale means more like 32.0-32.25 lbs not bad for having the bones cranks with steel spindel , saint der and the chainguide which all arnt designed to be light in any way shape or form .


heyheyhey, throw on a smile and it goes a mile... ended up a bit heavier than I expected actually, but you are running dual hydro brakes, among the geared setup and guide/bash....


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> Ahhhhhh hahahahahaha  LOL J/K
> A little fun on the boards today brings a big smile to my face
> I went to the bike shop and weighed the new SF complete it came to 32.50 which on their scale means more like 32.0-32.25 lbs not bad for having the bones cranks with steel spindel , saint der and the chainguide which all arnt designed to be light in any way shape or form .


Remove gears, chainguide, extra links in chains, front brake, and switch to lighter cranks and you've got yourself one hell of a light street bike.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

snaky69 said:


> Remove gears, chainguide, extra links in chains, front brake, and switch to lighter cranks and you've got yourself one hell of a light street bike.


YUP .... If I ran it single speed and toook of the rear cog's , SAINT der , CHAINGUIDE , BONES cranks  and the little stuff liek the front disk , PimpCaps and lockon grips , NYC stem all these parts are not light in any way ... but I wanted a bike setup pretty much the same as my last SF but a bit lighter in places .

I should weigh my OLD streetfighter and see what that came in at I bet it's closer to 34-35 with regular 8 track wheels , heavy Z-1 , heavier frame , dh tubes etc

To me my new bike is perfect ... not too heavy but also not so light that it runs away from you .

I am also building myself up a new 24 deathmobile that is going to be jsut stupid new school light but I too am waiting for the new tree sprocket and a few other parts that are going to make that bike close to 20lbs :eekster:


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> YUP .... If I ran it single speed and toook of the rear cog's , SAINT der , CHAINGUIDE , BONES cranks  and the little stuff liek the front disk , PimpCaps and lockon grips , NYC stem all these parts are not light in any way ... but I wanted a bike setup pretty much the same as my last SF but a bit lighter in places .
> 
> I should weigh my OLD streetfighter and see what that came in at I bet it's closer to 34-35 with regular 8 track wheels , heavy Z-1 , heavier frame , dh tubes etc
> 
> ...


What are you doing posting on here anyways? Go weld damn you! J/K. Maybe next summer I could see if there is any way at all I could see that SF in person.


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## dhallilama (Oct 10, 2006)

on the mention of drilled rims...... anyone try/using trails wheels? the rims from viz are looking pretty sweet...

i'm looking to build a new wheelset... came across these while looking for light weight anodized alum rims...


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

dhallilama said:


> on the mention of drilled rims...... anyone try/using trails wheels? the rims from viz are looking pretty sweet...
> 
> i'm looking to build a new wheelset... came across these while looking for light weight anodized alum rims...


I've never even heard of the company before. Try to find a rewiew through google. Otherwise, the only way to know would be to try it.


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## Rock Force (Oct 13, 2006)

As a BMX'er, I hear what you are saying. I'm all for light bikes. Though I do think that the Grim Reaper is a bit of overkill.

Now, this:
http://www.bmx-forum.com/bike-checks/44294-heaviest-light-bike-ive-ever-lifted-raw-s3.html
my friends, is the epitome of nice light bikes.


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## dhallilama (Oct 10, 2006)

snaky69 said:


> I've never even heard of the company before. Try to find a rewiew through google. Otherwise, the only way to know would be to try it.


they have a good following on the bike trials forums... supposedly hold up well to some pretty big drops. ~$55/rim isnt too bad... forget exactly, but think the 38mm eyeletted double wall is something like 480 grams...
that, and they really are pretty pimp lookin...


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## americanethics (Dec 1, 2005)

have you guys seen the new titanium grim reaper? 
https://www.grindstate.com/photo/grimreaper.jpg
https://www.vitalbmx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=222&Itemid=32

BikeSATORI, what frame is that eastern that you have some photos of there?

ody plastic pegs? https://www.grindstate.com/photo/odypeg.jpg


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

americanethics said:


> have you guys seen the new titanium grim reaper?
> https://www.grindstate.com/photo/grimreaper.jpg
> https://www.vitalbmx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=222&Itemid=32
> 
> ...


hey, nice links. those pics I put up are of an old Harvester, from a year ago or so...

in a dirt setting, I think these holes could actually end up being pretty detrimental to your headset and bb bearings, unless you clean them everyride... which I don't see as being very likely. But for a dedicated street or park bike (which still can get dirty) I think it's a great idea. very controversial issue though, as so many people are very skeptical. maybe just saran wrap'em or tape'em, haha....

hey, has anybody else seen the Macneil Pivotal post/seat Wedge mod.? another somewhat controversial mod... at the moment, not really a weight saver, but a pretty good idea. Mostly for people who slam their seats all the way (might be great for urban trials too), and it allows you to cut off the extra seattube sticking up above the toptube, and you don't need a seatclamp. also, unless you can machine your own piece, it will only fit 1" or 25.4 seattubes (maybe a shim would work) I think Macneil might be working on a proto of something like this, but the only ones I have seen were homemade. This photo is from that bmx-forums.com site:








if you're not familiar with how the original Pivotal system works in the first place, it might be sort of confusing...


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

dhallilama said:


> on the mention of drilled rims...... anyone try/using trails wheels? the rims from viz are looking pretty sweet...
> 
> i'm looking to build a new wheelset... came across these while looking for light weight anodized alum rims...


I've never heard of or used Viz parts. Look nice though, interesting cut-out shapes, but, the rims are much MUCH wider than I would care to use on my street bike. In trials, a square tire profile is desired, but I don't like it, I'd rather have round. I didn't have drilled rims on my Echo trials bike before I sold it, but a friend has some drilled Alex DX32's that are pretty nice. I think the shop he bought them from drilled them before building them up. He likes them, and hasn't had any probs, but I personally wouldn't use them for street.... they are 32spoke too...
24Bicycles has pre-drilled rims out now as well, both a disc and a V-brake model, but I've never used them, or even seen one in person... Might only be available in europe at the moment, I'm not sure.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

If 24's rims are as strong as their frames, drilling holes in them wouldn't be too bad.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

snaky69 said:


> If 24's rims are as strong as their frames, drilling holes in them wouldn't be too bad.


well, they are pre-drilled directly from them... check out their site. 
but yeah, I get what you are saying, it's kind of ironic, since as long as I've known of 24B, they have always been about complete OVERKILL than anything else, not losing weight, haha....


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

I dig the porn king though. There's one in RAW at my lbs. Sweet bike. There are even lines graduated in centimeters to measure weiner size on the top tube(I'm not kidding, even the manual says so if I remember right, and I saw them first hand)


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

The ti Grim Reaper is so sick. That thing would probably spin sooooo fast.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

With the right geometry, it probably would.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

I think that the Grim Reaper is both ugly and stupid. If you have to resort to cutting holes in a frame to save weight, you're not really putting in any effort to lighten a bike. Anybody can take a drill to his frame. S&M's Light As Fvck frame, on the other hand, is a great example of a well-designed and well-built super-light street/park/dirt frame.


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

Vlad said:


> I think that the Grim Reaper is both ugly and stupid. If you have to resort to cutting holes in a frame to save weight, you're not really putting in any effort to lighten a bike. Anybody can take a drill to his frame. S&M's Light As Fvck frame, on the other hand, is a great example of a well-designed and well-built super-light street/park/dirt frame.


So, the Ti Grim Reaper has computer designed holes that won't affect strenth that are strategically placed. It would probably be like 3 pounds w/o holes. Yet they're not putting real effort into it? They're making it as light as possible. They're taking every measure they can, yet they're not trying? Right.....


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Vlad said:


> I think that the Grim Reaper is both ugly and stupid. If you have to resort to cutting holes in a frame to save weight, you're not really putting in any effort to lighten a bike. Anybody can take a drill to his frame. S&M's Light As Fvck frame, on the other hand, is a great example of a well-designed and well-built super-light street/park/dirt frame.


I agree, the LAF is a sick frame, but what sways your opinion to think that for some reason they put more "effort" into that frame? The LAF also has "holes" cut in her, or did you not realize this? (similar idea to what evil4bc was explaining above with his SF's vent holes - more internal than externally visible).
I partially agree with you though, and can see where the skepticism can come from, but the way I see it, you are just limiting your own thought, based solely on narrow-mindedness and brand loyalty. It's natural for most to "shun" evolution or new designs until it is 110% proven. I'm not the Grim's #1 fan either, as there may be other options I'd look into first, but it is no doubt a bright new idea that may push the envelope in my opinion. Look at Stolen bikes, they are already adopting this external cut-out idea as well, when they punched out the "S" in their headtubes.
as for their forks, if it is just 1 cutout in the front of the steerer, it may not pose much of a design flaw (as long as they advertise "for light use" just like the S&M LAF is sold as). And the Grim Pegs, that idea is nothing new, it is just visible to the naked eye now. FLY has done the same thing with several drillings throughout the whole peg, just covered with another thin layer, same with the Odyssey Lighter I think.... 
The way I see some of these "speed holes" is it's just (not exactly, but..) tube butting taken to the full extreme. butting thins out the tubes where material isn't needed as much, eastern just removed all of the material where "they" or "their computers" saw it wasn't needed.
Maybe if the holes were covered in tape of some sort it wouldn't bother people as much.... ?


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Blasphemy! Real weight weenies would never bother with paint! Maybe not even anodizing!
Hahaha. I just read this thread. Some very cool stuff in here.

My Addict is sitting at roughly 29.5 right now.


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## JayPee (Mar 5, 2004)

I had a friend that worked at American Bicycle Manufacturing back in the day. (This was around 1989-1990) He had an M-16 frame built up that was drilled out more than any of the current BMX bikes are. Everything new is old, etc, etc, etc...

I always wondered that happened to that frame.


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## chuffer (Apr 15, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


>


oooh. I like that, but again this something that has been around since the 70s on road bikes. gotta make sure you dont over torque the expander though.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

chuffer said:


> oooh. I like that, but again this something that has been around since the 70s on road bikes. gotta make sure you dont over torque the expander though.


I wasn't aware that road bikes ever used the 1" expander on the seatpost?
This here is also a custom job if you can't tell (using the expander from an old stem), macneil hasn't released a post quite like this yet.... (I also see that Macneil liscenced the patent to DMR, who now sells it as a LockJaw 2 seat and post....)


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## dhallilama (Oct 10, 2006)

jaydrunkenpee said:


> I had a friend that worked at American Bicycle Manufacturing back in the day. (This was around 1989-1990) He had an M-16 frame built up that was drilled out more than any of the current BMX bikes are. Everything new is old, etc, etc, etc...
> 
> I always wondered that happened to that frame.


had a friend that worked for GT around that time... had a bike that looked like swiss cheese. i remember thinking how craaaazy lite it was, but im sure it was still over 22lbs (lite for the time).
a few weeks ago, i ride a neighbor's carbon fiber road bike. felt like riding air, it is so damned lite....
getting back on my ~34lb rockadile was one deciding factor in building a new, lite bike. problem is budget... that damned "light, strong, cheap... chose any two" thing keeps coming into play...


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Strong and cheap is what I go for usually, if it is light, then that's a plus.


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## Cabdoctor (Jun 22, 2006)

BikeSATORI said:


> I wasn't aware that road bikes ever used the 1" expander on the seatpost?


I know some F. Mosers had a setup like this. It was a pain to get the seat height set right.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

snaky69 said:


> Strong and cheap is what I go for usually, if it is light, then that's a plus.


yeah, I think that's what brad had in mind when he built up your SA with just regular old off the shelf Truetemper OX.....  hey, just pullin' your leg, def. no cheapness (neither in price nor manufature) factor there!



> Everything new is old, etc, etc, etc...


yeah, it's all hotrod tech. :thumbsup: Slim it down, lose the unnecessary stuff, chop it off, cut it out, and drill speed holes in anything possible, then light'em up and ride away!


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

Just weighed the seat and seatpost on my DK Dayton, which have a pretty bulky look to them. Comes in at just over 2 lbs on my little scale (which seems to be pretty acurate). If the published weights for the Macneil SL Seat and Macneil seatpost are correct, I could save a hair over 1 lb by using that seat/post setup. I suppose $50 for 1 lb is not too bad.


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## chuffer (Apr 15, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> I wasn't aware that road bikes ever used the 1" expander on the seatpost?
> This here is also a custom job if you can't tell (using the expander from an old stem), macneil hasn't released a post quite like this yet.... (I also see that Macneil liscenced the patent to DMR, who now sells it as a LockJaw 2 seat and post....)


doesnt necessarily have to be 1". an expander can be fabbed to any size the manufacturer wants more or less.

The ones I have seen werent the wedge expanders, but the cone expanders. And, yes, seat height (for the roadbikes of course) with that setup is a pain in the ass.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

chuffer said:


> doesnt necessarily have to be 1". an expander can be fabbed to any size the manufacturer wants more or less.
> 
> The ones I have seen werent the wedge expanders, but the cone expanders. And, yes, seat height (for the roadbikes of course) with that setup is a pain in the ass.


I gotcha, the only time I've seen the wedge expander was in the case of the 1" threadless stem, so that was my assumption... (and where people are sourcing it for the pivotal mod, since 99% of bmx is 1in or 25.4) 
of course the manufacturer can go with any diameter they want, c'mon....

I just don't have much knowlegde of roadbikes except hacking on a few to turn them to fixed gears.... and they all used integrated seatclamps... I'm sure that the expander must have been a pain, haha, that is one LONNG bolt! and the stems sucked as well.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

GotMojo? said:


> Just weighed the seat and seatpost on my DK Dayton, which have a pretty bulky look to them. Comes in at just over 2 lbs on my little scale (which seems to be pretty acurate). If the published weights for the Macneil SL Seat and Macneil seatpost are correct, I could save a hair over 1 lb by using that seat/post setup. I suppose $50 for 1 lb is not too bad.


seems a great place for you to start on that dayton. Cut that pivitol post down enough, and swap in a Knight Ti pivitol bolt and you'd lose even more. 
fork might be another way to lose some quick poundage (as well as the front wheel which you mentioned), then possibly some new fly bars or something... you know, the list never ends, haha.

I liked that ibis you posted up in a different thread too, nice all around rig with the ibis style.


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> seems a great place for you to start on that dayton. Cut that pivitol post down enough, and swap in a Knight Ti pivitol bolt and you'd lose even more.
> fork might be another way to lose some quick poundage (as well as the front wheel which you mentioned), then possibly some new fly bars or something... you know, the list never ends, haha.
> 
> I liked that ibis you posted up in a different thread too, nice all around rig with the ibis style.


Macneil is coming out with a Stump Seat post here shortly that is basically a cut down pivotal. Haven't seen it for sale anywhere yet. And yea, I want to drop some pounds on this Dayton. So far I'm thinking seat, seatpost, bars, and front wheel. I'll probaly remove the pegs too (saves 1.5 lbs) since I won't be using them anytime soon. Maybe a new fork at some point, and possibly rear wheel. Only thing left on the original bike will be the frame and cranks LOL.

And thanks for the compliment on the Ibis Mojo I posted in that other thread. Love that bike. Was a little sorry to see the new Ibis Mojo only available in carbon fiber and full suspension. They made GREAT steel hardtails back in the day and this new Mojo is so expensive that most people will never be able to afford one.


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

Eastern Ti frame...


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Interesting little video.


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

Just dropped 2 lbs on my DK Dayton. Here's what I swapped...

DK Seat and Post --> Macneil SL seat and Macneil Pivotal seatpost, (saved 1.25 lbs)
DK Handlebar and Grips --> Fit Flow Handlebar and ODI Rogue grips (saved .75 lbs)

The Pivotal seatpost and seat are pretty trick. Too bad this setup has not made it over to the mountain bike world because it really does save a lot of weight. Maybe its a comfort issue though since the middle of the seat basically has a hole in it where you tighten it...not sure how comfortable that would be if you actually have to sit on the seat for the majority of your rideing (like in XC racing).

The Fit flow bar was not a huge weight savings, but I wanted a white bar to replace the stock black one. :thumbsup: 

Next up is a new front wheel, which should save 1-2 lbs...


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

GotMojo? said:


> Just dropped 2 lbs on my DK Dayton. Here's what I swapped...
> 
> DK Seat and Post --> Macneil SL seat and Macneil Pivotal seatpost, (saved 1.25 lbs)
> DK Handlebar and Grips --> Fit Flow Handlebar and ODI Rogue grips (saved .75 lbs)
> ...


good stuff man. can you personally feel the upgrades while riding? I think you'll be able to notice an even bigger difference with a new front wheel (less rotating mass) and some skinny kevlar tires - also interesting how now a lot of bmx'ers are going kevlar bead now, just to lose even more weight over the usually much more durable wire beads....
post up some pics of your ride, well, either here, or under the "show off..." thread

And Norco has been for a couple of years, and now Eastern26 and DMR are using the Pivotal system as well (maybe others too). DMR is actually selling a version liscenced under their own name as the "Lock-jaw II".
I also use it on my mtb... and now that they offer MTB sizes, such as the common 27.2 and 30.8 you can use it on a LOT of mtb applications.

oh yeah, did you get the grey kevlar (that's what I have) or the perforated leather SL saddle?


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> good stuff man. can you personally feel the upgrades while riding? I think you'll be able to notice an even bigger difference with a new front wheel (less rotating mass) and some skinny kevlar tires - also interesting how now a lot of bmx'ers are going kevlar bead now, just to lose even more weight over the usually much more durable wire beads....
> post up some pics of your ride, well, either here, or under the "show off..." thread


Haven't ridden with the new lighter goodies yet, probably won't notice the 2lbs too much. But yea, the lighter wheel will make the biggest difference. What kevlar bead tires are available? The bike currently has Maxxis Miracles which I think are pretty heavy..



BikeSATORI said:


> And Norco has been for a couple of years, and now Eastern26 and DMR are using the Pivotal system as well (maybe others too). DMR is actually selling a version liscenced under their own name as the "Lock-jaw II".
> I also use it on my mtb... and now that they offer MTB sizes, such as the common 27.2 and 30.8 you can use it on a LOT of mtb applications.


Interesting. I'll have to look around. I have a Thomson post and WTB seat on my Mojo, which I'm fine with. But my Kona Cowan just has a cheap (and heavy) Truvativ post with a heavy WTB seat and I want somethiing lighter.



BikeSATORI said:


> oh yeah, did you get the grey kevlar (that's what I have) or the perforated leather SL saddle?


I got the black leather...almost went with the grey but for some reason decided against it. I bet its much more durable than the one I got.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

GotMojo? said:


> What kevlar bead tires are available? The bike currently has Maxxis Miracles which I think are pretty heavy..


http://www.khebikes.com/2006/street/parts/06-ti-pr.htm
I don't know anything about maxxis miracles....


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> http://www.khebikes.com/2006/street/parts/06-ti-pr.htm
> I don't know anything about maxxis miracles....


Cool, I'll have to check those out.

Oh, and I just posted my DK over in the Show Your Ride thread.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

GotMojo? said:


> Cool, I'll have to check those out.
> 
> Oh, and I just posted my DK over in the Show Your Ride thread.


Really nice bike.


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## Sudden_Judgement (Sep 13, 2006)

I did a little expirement once, where I put those ankle weights on my bmx bike. I put two 5 pounders on, one on the headtube and one around the seat tube, and rode for a week, I then took them off and it felt like a completely different bike than before, I could bunnyhop higher, and tailwhip and spin way faster. It may be stupid but it woked.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

More partage componentage to droolage uponage. lick it...


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Here is a beautiful piece for those of us who NEVER will run a front disc brake, but run a 20mm fork/thru-axle:










profile racing's legendary quality, along with one of the strongest wheelbuilds possible on a front with no offset/dish, same length spokes... so smooth. It's on my list of next on the barge.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

I'd buy one if it came in black or red.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

snaky69 said:


> I'd buy one if it came in black or red.


are you talking about the Profile hub? 
yeah, have you heard of spray paint? comes in a can, both about 1/10 of the price and 1/10 the weight of powdercoat. works great for me for my color coordination needs. ok, sorry about the sarcasm, I generally avoid it, but had to say... 
at the moment, I even think it looks pretty cool to even spray paint with the spokes already in, just spin the wheel. Has an 80's punk street look to it.... instead of the high-dollar, cruisin' the strip to show off your pop culture approved "bling" look...


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## ---->SWERVE76<---- (Jun 20, 2005)

The fly cranks are out. 1.75 claimed pounds.



cranks finally available!

yes, after 3 years of developing, the cranks are finally available on some countryes and will be soon on the rest. japan, usa, uk, bulgaria, czchec republic and norway shipped them by air so they received them already and are sending them to the shops at this moment. for the rest, it will take about 4 weeks because they are shipped by boat. australia and asia countryes will take about 2 weeks.
we are so stoked...

also, we never told that they are available in 175 and 180mm, the size of spindle is 22mm. and the weight of the set (two arms, spindle, spindle and sprocket bolts) is 795 grs. / 1.75 lb.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> are you talking about the Profile hub?
> yeah, have you heard of spray paint? comes in a can, both about 1/10 of the price and 1/10 the weight of powdercoat. works great for me for my color coordination needs. ok, sorry about the sarcasm, I generally avoid it, but had to say...
> at the moment, I even think it looks pretty cool to even spray paint with the spokes already in, just spin the wheel. Has an 80's punk street look to it.... instead of the high-dollar, cruisin' the strip to show off your pop culture approved "bling" look...


Some people like spray paint, some don't. I don't really like it except on some parts.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

---->SWERVE76<---- said:


> The fly cranks are out. 1.75 claimed pounds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hey, nice post! :thumbsup: those looks like some sick sticks as well! I can't tell, but it looks like that spindle isn't welded to the arm like the wombolts... I'd like to see some closer pics.
I've got some bmx friends in Japan, hmmm. I should have them order some up for me, haha...


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> hey, nice post! :thumbsup: those looks like some sick sticks as well! I can't tell, but it looks like that spindle isn't welded to the arm like the wombolts... I'd like to see some closer pics.
> I've got some bmx friends in Japan, hmmm. I should have them order some up for me, haha...


Those do look pretty good. Those wombolts have me curious as well satori, you seem to dig them very much.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

it never ends...

here are some sweet looking dirt tires that are LIGHT. I've yet to try them, but if you're in the market for dj rubbers, I'd look. Schwalbe Table Top - timo pritzel designed...









not as sick as the atomlab COMP III comin' back, but hey...

haha, actually, I double posted again, so I edited this one and added that tire, but I have been thinking about it...


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

hell, may as well bring this one into the new year as well....

I see Macneil has come up with some proto crank arms as well, gotta keep up with the game in the current bike world today apparantly, everybody's droppin' crank arms left and right (hopefully not literally).

But these are pretty interesting, hard to tell in the pictures, as they look like profiles with a weld down the middle, but they are actually two thin oval pieces of hollow chromo welded together... who knows how much they weigh, but in theory, that seems stouter than guiness. 








and in this graphic you can see the cross-sections of the crank arm.








both photos courtesy of macneilbmxdotcom. check the news, a few nice bike checks there as well...

here's TSC's sick new offering, and from what I can tell, they will be priced nicely as well, but no bb included (isn't that the new trend lately...) The Torrid arms, use a TRICK one piece backbone with the spindle and pedal inserts integrated, then a chromoly shell welded on top, with a nice (IMO, some hate it) hexagon profile shape...








much easier to see the trick backbone here when separated









also gotta show this trick little chunk-o'-goodness. NEMPRO ride or die clamp:








you know you want it! another sick prime-cut grade A stock from SRM.

and another, from an occasional poster on these boards, chip, the anchor action:








holdfast XLT

oh yeah, and may as well throw in a piece that I love, and am hoping will work out on my next build... get one if you can, or sell me yours if you've got one and don't want it. :thumbsup: 
Fly Bikes euro-to-spanish converter.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Theres lots of stuff you can do for weight savings. I think for my next bike I'm going to go Eastern Grim Reaper, with the lightest possible stuff on it.

Also the Odyssey Elementary stem is awesome, only 1 bolt to secure it all!


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Lightsabre action goin' on here... made for a 3.5lb frame!








keep in mind, this is on a limited edition Quamen GammA flatland frame, so unfortunetly for us, it probably wouldn't survive. Nice eye candy to take in though.

Now take a look at yet another stem hitting. This thing is the definition of TRICK! 
man. Only uses the four bolts for the bar clamps, then all of the parts squeeze together in a nice little tubage hug.
































not until you see it disassembled into the little parts do you realize how much pondering and messing around must have gone into the engineering of that pretty little bit. Man I like it... should have listened to my pops and gramps and continued with my engineering degree... :madman:

and, a sick little stylee sprocket from those same guys.









Here is probably my favorite press-fit headset out there. :thumbsup: Solid, in more ways than one. Tapered roller bearings, yum. Heavy though, so I don't know why I'm posting it here, but it appears that this just became the thread where I throw up some stuff to drool over haha.... hope I'm not the only one drooling here.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Not so sure I'm diggin that stem. I bet its not so light and costs a ton.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> Lightsabre action goin' on here... made for a 3.5lb frame!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


F trying to get that to survive during rideing ... How do they avoid it distorting during welding


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> F trying to get that to survive during rideing ... How do they avoid it distorting during welding


Maybe done after welding? It would be harder but I figure it could be done.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

snaky69 said:


> Maybe done after welding? It would be harder but I figure it could be done.


yeah, done after welding, look at the holes next to the welds. Apparantly that's why it's limited edition, haha... but, those larger cutouts are done before, that is how some of their frames come stock.



Vinny A said:


> Not so sure I'm diggin that stem. I bet its not so light and costs a ton.


And to Vinny A below... why would that stem be heavy??? it only uses 4 bolts and is machined to the max, but I'm sure you are right, probably pretty pricey. But, I think it is badjazz for sure.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

It just seems like it is still a good amount of material being used.

Now that I look at it more though, you're right not too heavy. Probably close to where the Odyssey Elementary stem is:








That stem is so sick, I love it. Only 1 bolt to secure the whole thing, and it comes in at 8oz, with a Ti bolt you probably could get it at 6-7oz. I think Profile stopped making the Ti bolts for the Elementary stems


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

i was just about to mention the elementery, i wana pick one up but i think there too $$$


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

aggiebiker said:


> i was just about to mention the elementery, i wana pick one up but i think there too $$$


I mentioned the elementary on the first page of the thread... but that said, George French has gotta be one of my heroes. Comes up with some awesome stuff! Wish they made the ribcage in 24" or the marmoset in 20mm thru, already has a 20mm axle, just with 3/8 hex bolts on the end... I think I might even like it better than the profile non-disc 20mm hub.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

aggiebiker said:


> i was just about to mention the elementery, i wana pick one up but i think there too $$$


Its honestly not alot, especially for the designing that went into the stem. Its around the price of any other good stem (Animal Jumpoff being $54.) It is also an Odyssey so you defiantly get what you pay for.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

maybe i will get one, can i run i gyro w/ the elmentary


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

aggiebiker said:


> maybe i will get one, can i run i gyro w/ the elmentary


yeah, they sell a version of it that has gyro stops built into the sides.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Yeah, defiantly get the Elementary if you're in the market for a good light stem. I think the gyro tabs are an extra 5 bucks though


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

has anyone mentioned easterns ti cranks? there there pretty dang light

http://www.easternbikes.com/a/products/parts/06Parts/Cranks/TiCranks/TiCranks.html


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## Cru Jones (Aug 10, 2006)

*Pedals?*

What's the word on some light weight pedals? I'm rockin the Drive Pro Sealed. At 15.3 oz, they are some of the lightest I could find, along with Ruben's and DK Distortion's with Ti spindles. These are over half a pound lighter than a lot of the pedals out there... a real nice spot to save some weight. Any other solid, light pedals out there?

I'm lovin the Drive's. Low profile, smooth look to them. Hella grip. Didn't come with replacement pins, though.









Oh, and I reallly wish they would make a light weight half link chain. I love the functionality and looks of the Shadow Interlock 2... but it weighs a sh!t ton.


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## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

my shimano dx's are about 17 oz.. not too bad.. and about teh chain.. i love the half link on my ToP, but damn i can save half the weight with just a regular chain on my new build.. maybe they need a hollow pin half link,,,


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

fiddy_ryder said:


> my shimano dx's are about 17 oz.. not too bad.. and about teh chain.. i love the half link on my ToP, but damn i can save half the weight with just a regular chain on my new build.. maybe they need a hollow pin half link,,,


yeah man, around 1lb for pedals is about as low as we can get I guess....

I've found the Shadow V2 to be fairly heavy as well... easily lose almost half a lb if you go to a hollow-pin reg... 
Supposedly, KHE is hitting with their version of the half-link, and will have an even more expensive version with hollow-pins, don't expect that to be cheap though...

But, with most normal chains, you can't smoothly run super small micro drive either, just keep that in mind, 11/12+ rear tooth and you should be all good though.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Well the way I see it, its either the weight of a Shadow 1/2 link chain or a tensioner, take your pick. 

Granted the tensioner is going to be lighter, but its one more part on your bike to break.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Vinny A said:


> Well the way I see it, its either the weight of a Shadow 1/2 link chain or a tensioner, take your pick.
> 
> Granted the tensioner is going to be lighter, but its one more part on your bike to break.


I think the Pintle is lighter than the Shadow by a bit... but I'm still waiting on the KHE...

are you talking about horiz. drop tensioners, like the old crupi style, or like rennen style? I don't see it that way at all though.... unless you have vert. drops. 
but you can still get slammed cs' with a normal chain, but the chances are just slimmer with it alone... unless you use one 1/2 link by itself (kind of janky IMO), or run a ghost ring inside the chain, which both can help...


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Cru Jones said:


> What's the word on some light weight pedals? I'm rockin the Drive Pro Sealed. At 15.3 oz, they are some of the lightest I could find, along with Ruben's and DK Distortion's with Ti spindles. These are over half a pound lighter than a lot of the pedals out there... a real nice spot to save some weight. Any other solid, light pedals out there?
> 
> I'm lovin the Drive's. Low profile, smooth look to them. Hella grip. Didn't come with replacement pins, though.
> 
> ...


I've seen a lot of people lately running wellgos.... which you know, I never really looked into as I always thought they were cheap oem pedals (which they make a lot of...) but now they've got some sick plats out these days! 
Check it, MG-1 326g! like 11.5oz or something, and I've seen quite a few on some light bmx bikes too... almost bid on some on ebay for cheap, before I just looked up the stats... guess I should have.








and Wellgo MG-52 if you like full length spindle and ceilenki style, comin' at 424g a pair








and these ones are heavier, but I kinda like'em. the Wellgo B-76 at 586, so well over a #









oh yeah, and no lightweights I'm sure, but gotta be better than the old versions... The BMW Veggie Burgers... interesting, but I'd probably never buy a pair...


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Alright, just cuz' it's obvious I like stems.... and there are more than I could kick a stick at on the market...
Been hearin' a lot of rap about the new Straitline products, including the stem... so thar she blows matey:

















and, comin' up with a somewhat similar design, a little more industrial look, and these are just protos, and of course 22.2 only, but similar clamp as the Straitline... 
It's the Superstar, I dig.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> Alright, just cuz' it's obvious I like stems.... and there are more than I could kick a stick at on the market...
> Been hearin' a lot of rap about the new Straitline products, including the stem... so thar she blows matey:
> 
> 
> ...


I don't like the finish on either of the first pics, they remind me too much of older holzfellers. I like the other too though.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

The Eastern Mags are also pretty light at 180z


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## boatshow (Oct 11, 2006)

BikeSATORI said:


> Now take a look at yet another stem hitting. This thing is the definition of TRICK!
> man. Only uses the four bolts for the bar clamps, then all of the parts squeeze together in a nice little tubage hug.
> 
> 
> ...


Who makes that stem, if you don't mind me asking? I can't quite make out the name in the picture.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

boatshow said:


> Who makes that stem, if you don't mind me asking? I can't quite make out the name in the picture.


Quamen... from cali, typically known for their flatland bike stuff.... got some pretty evolutionary stuff...


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Probably another of my current top favorite bmx companies out now is KHE (among G-sport/odyssey, Superstar, and Macneil, just to name a few with some innovative stuff hitting...), a german company that has been around for quite awhile... and they've been bringin' the weight-loss to the fatties with a vengeance. Who would have thought kevlar tires for street/dirt would be logical? now people dig it...

This is the new KHE 2-piece Hindenberg cranks... not that revolutionary (but thought I'd post it anyway), as they just welded what appears to be a pretty typical hollow 19mm "profile" style spindle to one arm, making it like a basic version of the Wombolt. But it saves a bit of weight apparantly, but may limit on installation line-up. anyway, here it is, 744g:









and a better picture of their now out KHE Minimalism stem 48mm (the one I posted earlier in the thread was a flatland proto, as you could see the raw machining and color):









and now the KHE Half-link WITH hollow-pins! also available with solid... no idea on the weight, but it's gotta be lighter than the TSC V2 or the Pintle I'm assuming...









KHE Hure cassette hub. 414g, and has 3 rows of alternating pawls for super quick engagement, as well as a large bearing directly under the pawls, unlike 90% of other hubs which only place the bearing below the cog... and, on top of that, has the EAS system, which you either hate or love... Can run one side chromo for grinding, and one side ti or alu for lightweight, or in my case, I'd run both sides alu or ti since I don't run pegs anymore.









and just a cool looking cutout gusset on their Method2 ShaunButler frame, I also like their bb shells, with the outer ridge... nice:









now, if it were just easier to get our hands on these german parts here in the states... :madman:


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

*Since were talking bout frames and stems !*

Here are some shot's of some new stuff that been rolling out the doors here at Nemesis Project cycles .

First up is a shot of David Thackers complete 07" 26" Secret Agent in Pearl white .









Nxt up is another team riders bikes 
Here's Peter K Mills fro Ashville N/C 's 07" Secret Agent in Glow in the Dark Green Apple , and yes it really glows in the dark ! This frame also features a internal headset .



















and some OX platinum porn for the weight weeine content 









Last up are a few shot's of our 31.8 freride stem , this is pretty much how the production versions of this stem will look .


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> Last up are a few shot's of our 31.8 freride stem , this is pretty much how the production versions of this stem will look .


Holy crap! When can I get a hold of this stem dude?? For testing purposes of course. After all I am your french canadian test rider.

Not that it would look perfectly color coordinated to my bike... copy cat.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

snaky69 said:


> Holy crap! When can I get a hold of this stem dude?? For testing purposes of course. After all I am your french canadian test rider.
> 
> Not that it would look perfectly color coordinated to my bike... copy cat.


tasty chunk right there on that plate! so, what sizes avail., 31.8, 25.4?? got a name for that deathclamp yet?


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> tasty chunk right there on that plate! so, what sizes avail., 31.8, 25.4?? got a name for that deathclamp yet?


Let's call it the "poutine".









Poutine, real food for real riders.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> tasty chunk right there on that plate! so, what sizes avail., 31.8, 25.4?? got a name for that deathclamp yet?


That's the 31.8 version and for somereason death clamp seems like a good working title for now :thumbsup:

The 25.4/22.2mm stem is a bit off , I'm waiting for the guys at Super Rat Machine to finish up the run FBM stems there currently working on .


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Damn Brad those are some sick bikes!


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> That's the 31.8 version and for somereason death clamp seems like a good working title for now :thumbsup:
> 
> The 25.4/22.2mm stem is a bit off , I'm waiting for the guys at Super Rat Machine to finish up the run FBM stems there currently working on .


Deathclamp does seem good as well. Put that thing on a scale, sticker and powdercoat included.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

KINK.

yeah, I know, this first one is just a recovered Macneil, etc., but still good to see the Pivotal spread like mad IMO... can't even count now how many companies are using it. First ones to use the stumpy that I have seen though...

















but that's not what I'm really excited for coming out of KinkBikeCo. in '07, it's this effin' gnarley stem. The Relief, at 8.5oz, w/ only 4 hollow chromo bolts and a two separate face clamps that work in conjunction to compress the steerer as well... man I like that naked look with the open steerer, I just wanna... just wanna... man, just... do somethin' to it. 

































oh yeah, and Sound sprocket...









both of those bikes in the photos (didn't bother posting complete pics of them) are sub 23lb builds as well... damn, I guess working for a bike company has it's perks.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but the Fly rims are sweet as hell. They come drilled stock. They also come in some pretty sick color combos. They come in at 1.15lbs which isn't bad, especially for a wheel that strong. 









Also the Superstar micro pegs are sick sh!t. They are a little longer than traditional axle bolts so its easier to grind. They are also light as hell! They weigh 1.85 grams, which is about .85 grams more than a regular axle nut. Not bad!


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Vinny A said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but the Fly rims are sweet as hell. They come drilled stock. They also come in some pretty sick color combos. They come in at 1.15lbs which isn't bad, especially for a wheel that strong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hey nice post, great to get others posting up sick parts here as well! I really dig those new fly rims, but I was just avoiding posting them since they only come in 20" unfortunetly... otherwise I would have posted up about the Gsport Ribcages too! excellent hoops... (which reminds me, i've wanted to post something up about Gsport Marmoset or Eject option hubs too, since they can possibly be used on a QR dropout fork if ground out just a tiny bit...)

But, most everything I posted in this thread can easily relate to bigger wheel rigs as well. :thumbsup: since this is an mtb site after all and what most of us ride!  
well, basically the only stuff that isn't relative is the rims/tires, frame, forks, and bars! everything else is pretty cross compatible...


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Yeah dude, I hear ya about the compatibility issue. This thread seemed to be more BMX oriented (well thats how I see it) so I figured why not post up some sick BMX stuff.

Now that I think about it, the Micro pegs might be a pretty nice option for someone looking to be able to grind on a suspension fork. I *think* the 3/8" bolts will work with a 10mm axle.

Also something for the 24 and 26 ers that run BMX rear spacing, Albes has some nice Axles for you. They are completely flush on one side. They work with Profile Cassette hubs. 









Theres also another one made by Premium that is compatible with Premium and Odyssey cassette hubs.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Since we also post up sick parts in this thread, here is something I stumbled upon tonight while reading GrindState. The S&M ******* XLT Inferno. Its designed for larger riders who constantly break stems/are hard on stems. It uses 6mm bolts, and with hollow cromo bolts it probably could get down to Odyssey Elementary range. While being tough as nails it weighs in at a reasonable 11 ounces, not bad eh? It also uses a sick new finishing process that makes no 2 stems exactly alike. 









S!ck **** eh?


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Alright ANOTHER stem here. Its the Premium Products Sub 10 stem. It weighs in at 9.7 oz and is machined to the MAX. Its pretty nice looking, hopefully it gets good reviews. It looks pretty sketchy especially for someone who throws it down big and isn't small.









Oh god, not another stem here! What is it with companies and making stems? You would think that they have expended all of the possible designs for a stem. Apparently not.

This one is from Kink Bike Co, and its somewhat of a knock off of the Odyssey Elementary stem. But instead of using 1 bolt for it all, the stem uses 4 bolts in the front to secure the stem. It uses a sliding wedge to secure it to the steerer tube. It weighs in at a claimed 8.5 oz. Looks decent:


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

my bad


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Vinny A said:


> Alright ANOTHER stem here. Its the Premium Products Sub 10 stem. It weighs in at 9.7 oz and is machined to the MAX. Its pretty nice looking, hopefully it gets good reviews. It looks pretty sketchy especially for someone who throws it down big and isn't small.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice, I haven't seen that premium one yet...

but, look above, I did a whole thing on KINK '07 stuff... you rehashed that one man, but fine with me, I really dig that stem! but not like an Elementary at all, it's more a rip-off of the old Profile Racing H.I.P. stem, just machined like crazy. Simple BMX has a similar HIP rip stem out now too...


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Oh crap my bad, I didnt see your post on the Kink stuff. My browser doesn't load all of the images sometimes, and instead of just re reading the thread I look for pictures. 

I'll edit the double post, I didnt catch that either. My bad :madman:


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

what the hell, I pushed the post now button once.


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## cully (Jan 4, 2006)

so.... does profile not mind simple and kink ripping off their pattented HIP design??


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

cully said:


> so.... does profile not mind simple and kink ripping off their pattented HIP design??


haha, who knows... I don't know the legalities of it... But, "H.I.P." apparantly stands for "Hidden Internal Piston", but the concept is the EXACTLY the same as the Simple and the Kink Relief, the only difference that I can tell is that niether the Simple nor the Relief are "hidden", haha... so maybe that's enough difference to set them apart at the patent office.
and apparantly they don't mind anybody ripping off their crank specs either, but don't know if that is patented in the first place. Can't be with the amount of 48spline 19mm based cranks and spindles out there. :skep: bad for them, great for us!
H.I.P.









and here's the Simple BMX stem just for reference... similar visible floating center like kink, but the kink has rigid top/bottom main section, simple has rigid sides and floating center and isn't machined as heavily as kink... profile hip has little floating piston that is completely surrounded and not visible...









all really cool engineering feats though...


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Yeah, chances are its different enough that Kink gets away with it. Theres always those little loop holes.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Vinny A said:


> Yeah, chances are its different enough that Kink gets away with it. Theres always those little loop holes.


No one in the bmx world cares about patents , which is kinda weird as they consistantly come up with better product ideas than most designers in the MTB world


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## cully (Jan 4, 2006)

Evil4bc said:


> No one in the bmx world cares about patents , which is kinda weird as they consistantly come up with better product ideas than most designers in the MTB world


well it does appear that mcneil does care about their patent for the seat and seat post design since everyone is lisencing it from them.

and I do agree that bmx is pushing the evolution of product design in this catigory, but this isn't really what most of the MTB market is about. yet innovation has been led by both sides. cassette hub, ahead hedset and stem, modern 2 piece cranks, soon external bearing bb (the spanish euro bb), thomson seatpost, and i've even heard that some dj'ers are using saint cranks. don't get me wrong, I love the innovation and products from mcneil, fly, tree, etc... but you can't say one is better than the other because what works in mtb won't nessecarly be the right thing for bmx and visa-versa.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

cully said:


> well it does appear that mcneil does care about their patent for the seat and seat post design since everyone is lisencing it from them.
> 
> and I do agree that bmx is pushing the evolution of product design in this catigory, but this isn't really what most of the MTB market is about. yet innovation has been led by both sides. cassette hub, ahead hedset and stem, modern 2 piece cranks, soon external bearing bb (the spanish euro bb), thomson seatpost, and i've even heard that some dj'ers are using saint cranks. don't get me wrong, I love the innovation and products from mcneil, fly, tree, etc... but you can't say one is better than the other because what works in mtb won't nessecarly be the right thing for bmx and visa-versa.


so which way does your argument go? or just trying to extinguish the dualities? 'cuz I could completely agree with that... no matter where the parts are from, if you can use or modify them to work for an improved bike, all the better! no categorizing required.
I guess that overall, it just seems that the bmx industry is a LOT quicker on their feet than a lot of companies in the mtb industry... maybe so, maybe not... it's a relative statement... but strictly related to this section of the forum... bmx parts are going to rule it these days, no doubt about it.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Anyone want some of those KHE Hindenburg cranks with the Ti spindle? Right here for 200:
http://www.ebikestop.com/Items/004-cr7954?sck=89239017

They also have alot of other KHE stuff.
http://www.ebikestop.com/store/search.aspx?sck=8344071&Page=1&Sort=1&key=khe

Note: I am in no way associated with them, I just happened to find them. Their site is legit despite the prices.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

bringin' it on back home to mtb...

check this, just noticed it on matchvideozine even though it was posted a month ago or so...
which, they deemed as the "Lightest Mob they have ever seen" comin' in at a pencil lead breaking, pop can denting 21 pounds! damn that is light... ligther than many "weight weenie" bmx bikes as well as full-on XC race bikes!!? I honestly would say that it TOO light for a bike of this nature... incredible feat nontheless... but hurry up and change it back so you don't impale yourself upon these feather shards!


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Change the tires to k-rads, stick a hollow-link chain on there, and go rigid, that bike could actually weigh less haha!


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Jesus dude, thats too light. I wouldn't trust that at all!


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Yay bringing back the thread! I am pretty sure they havent been posted yet *crosses fingers* but here are the DK Distortion Pedals with Ti Spindle. They are 14oz for a pair with the Ti Spindle, pretty good eh?
http://www.albes.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1625


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Vinny A said:


> Yay bringing back the thread! I am pretty sure they havent been posted yet *crosses fingers* but here are the DK Distortion Pedals with Ti Spindle. They are 14oz for a pair with the Ti Spindle, pretty good eh?
> http://www.albes.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1625


yeah man, nice addition. They just did a quick write-up on the Distortions on Grindstate if anyone cares to check it out...


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

BikeSATORI said:


> yeah man, nice addition. They just did a quick write-up on the Distortions on Grindstate if anyone cares to check it out...


i've been lookin' at the distortions a bit lately and after reading what Shino had to say they are a possibility. although there are the magnesium easterns that you can dirt cheap!


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

BikeSATORI said:


> yeah man, nice addition. They just did a quick write-up on the Distortions on Grindstate if anyone cares to check it out...


Yeah thats where I got the idea from actually. I didnt know they were so light, but turns out they are.

On a non weight weenie note, anyone see the new LE color from Odyssey? Its called Guacamole, SO sick. They have the Wombolts, Dirt/Race fork, Hazard Lite rims, Civilian Bars, Team grips, and Jim C pedals in it. Its so nice, I'm picking up Wombolts, Grips, and JCs in the new color.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

the premium c-clamp stem looks pretty slick. it weieghs 8.4 ounces which is super close to the elementary. and its only 50 bucks.
http://www.danscomp.com/372014.php?cat=PARTS#


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

alright, bring it on back now...

I've been farily lazy lately... but here are a few more things to add.

Seawright polycarbonate sprocket (1.6oz w/out sticker 1.8oz with sticker, hahaha, yes, they actually did post up weights both with and without the sticker):
























not meant for grinding, but for dj and flow riding it may be a hot ticket to a smooth quiet running drivetrain that is silly light.

and my new Demolition Medial LT cranks. One of the lightest bmx cranks on the market, aside from profile magnatanium or eastern titanium. (9.8oz arms / 4.7oz ti spindle / hollow crank bolts) and not to mention, one of the cheapest out too! and it gets rid of that old profile design flaw at the spindle boss weld while at the same time making it smooth for your medial bone/ankle...









and Gusset Open Prison Bars, the lightest chromoly 22.2 mtb bars out that I am aware of. Full 680mm length and with a nice turn down friendly rise of about 3". Only 400g.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> alright, bring it on back now...
> 
> I've been farily lazy lately... but here are a few more things to add.
> 
> ...


Are are you to attach a cog on that hub though?


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## ---->SWERVE76<---- (Jun 20, 2005)

Satori,
That hubs not a freecoaster. Just single speed. 
And snaky, that hub uses some proprietary cogs. heres the link
http://www.trueprecision.net/shopping/Hubs_zg_Cogs.html


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

---->SWERVE76<---- said:


> Satori,
> That hubs not a freecoaster. Just single speed.
> And snaky, that hub uses some proprietary cogs. heres the link
> http://www.trueprecision.net/shopping/Hubs_zg_Cogs.html


oh hey, my bad.

I was just about to write up something witty about how it's actually a freecoaster hub for unicycles, so you don't need cogs, haha...  wouldn't that be something...

actually, damn, didn't see their site, but now that I look at it, that thing is an effin' straight rip! can't even run anything smaller than 14t w/ their proprietary cogs, and the thing is just as ridiculously overpriced as a chrisbling, which I hate with a passion...


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## ---->SWERVE76<---- (Jun 20, 2005)

awesome, a coasterd unicycle...kinda like riding a bike with no chain or chainwheel...


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

---->SWERVE76<---- said:


> awesome, a coasterd unicycle...kinda like riding a bike with no chain or chainwheel...


or, just closer to a BC Wheel, just with cranks or unicycle w/ ability to coast... Or, like that Fuel Unbike, that flatlanders use to practice... I don't know, I was just joking around... 










BC wheel:
















talk about frustrating hard... jeez...:skep:


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> or, just closer to a BC Wheel, just with cranks or unicycle w/ ability to coast... Or, like that Fuel Unbike, that flatlanders use to practice... I don't know, I was just joking around...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How did he even... bunny hop? this?


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## SnowMongoose (Feb 18, 2007)

I assume that he clamped inwards with his ankles and just carried the wheel up that way.

some crazy cool stuff showing up in this thread, though some of us should calm down on the quoting of so many pictures.
cough*snaky*cough


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

SnowMongoose said:


> I assume that he clamped inwards with his ankles and just carried the wheel up that way.
> 
> some crazy cool stuff showing up in this thread, though some of us should calm down on the quoting of so many pictures.
> cough*snaky*cough


yeah, search for vids of it on one of these hosting sites like google or youtube or whatever, I've seen them somewhere... so sketchy... there are kids grinding with them and all that stuff.. and looping out plenty as well, haha.

and glad you dig the little thread here, was hoping to compile up some crazy info here, that way in a year or more we can look back at the beginning and laugh, and either say that was brilliant at that time! or we can say, wtf, that was absolutely ludicrous, who came up with that bunk jive? haha... bikes! :thumbsup:


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## buckoW (Feb 7, 2007)

The Avid and Formula matchmakers are pretty cool for those who ride gears. Puts the shifter on the bar mount of the brakes and makes it nice and clean for bar spin friendly setups.


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## cully (Jan 4, 2006)

hey I just picked up those gusset bar, and so far I like them, I just wish that blkmrkt made a 22.2 stem hopefully anchor will soon enough


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## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

just run a stem shim. itll be fine.


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## cully (Jan 4, 2006)

fiddy_ryder said:


> just run a stem shim. itll be fine.


yep, thats what i'm doing now, but i'm just saying, it would be cleaner if there was a 22.2 stem as light as the blkmrkt.


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## ---->SWERVE76<---- (Jun 20, 2005)

2 or 3 ounces should not make much of a difference for a stem


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## cully (Jan 4, 2006)

---->SWERVE76<---- said:


> 2 or 3 ounces should not make much of a difference for a stem


agreed, but this is a weight weenies thread, and along with your point it shouldn't make much difference on handle bars, forks, seats, seatposts, frames and basicly anything else that doesn't rotate, right? I just don't want or need over built parts, and in my humble opinion even the lightest bmx stem is over built for mountain bike use since mountain bikes have shorter handle bars putting less leverage on the stem.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

cully said:


> yep, thats what i'm doing now, but i'm just saying, it would be cleaner if there was a 22.2 stem as light as the blkmrkt.


what is the blkmrkt? like 230g or something for the straight and a bit more for the riser?

Go with ODSY Elementary w/ knight ti bolt, or wait for the Kink relief, which should be close to the elementary...


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## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

blkmrkt claimed weight is 190g!!?


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

fiddy_ryder said:


> blkmrkt claimed weight is 190g!!?




oh, well alright then.

relabel it a thomson and people'd be buying those left and right.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

fiddy_ryder said:


> blkmrkt claimed weight is 190g!!?


That's weight without bolts


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Well as it seems to be the question of the day I went up to the UPS store and weighed my new street stem WITH bolts , handle bar spacer and the heavy ass stainless steel pin total weight is ( drum roll please )

9.5 OZ !!!!!!!!! YUP that's lighter than every bmx stem excluding the Odyssey elementary ( George French designs dont count in the MTB world ! )


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> Well as it seems to be the question of the day I went up to the UPS store and weighed my new street stem WITH bolts , handle bar spacer and the heavy ass stainless steel pin total weight is ( drum roll please )
> 
> 9.5 OZ !!!!!!!!! YUP that's lighter than every bmx stem excluding the Odyssey elementary ( George French designs dont count in the MTB world ! )


Noice! That's 269,56g for the rest of the world.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

Evil4bc said:


> Well as it seems to be the question of the day I went up to the UPS store and weighed my new street stem WITH bolts , handle bar spacer and the heavy ass stainless steel pin total weight is ( drum roll please )
> 
> 9.5 OZ !!!!!!!!! YUP that's lighter than every bmx stem excluding the Odyssey elementary ( George French designs dont count in the MTB world ! )


my premium c-clamp is 8.4. but i aint hatin your stem is still sicker.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

i just spotted these on the fly site. alum. inner core with a cromo sleeve. and yes those are holes in the aluminum. o.4 pounds.








im really feelin there goods lately. theyr pedals and rims is sick as well.


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## mtscreamer (Feb 9, 2006)

Very nice. I totally agree with the last part. I tried the hookworms and then went to K-rads. What a huge weight difference. And the gusset thing...I have a .243 that had a gusset, but I cut it off. It took off probably close to 1/2 a pound off. Its a steel frame. If you break it all I have to say is...OUCH!!! Lastly... i'm all about loosing weight in cool and inovative ways. Thats what makes your bike yours. Peace!!!


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## joelalamo45 (Aug 3, 2006)

here's my thought on it... instead of worrying about how much your bike weighs, spend that time riding.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

joelalamo45 said:


> here's my thought on it... instead of worrying about how much your bike weighs, spend that time riding.


thanks for sitting down on your computer and letting us know.

seriously, this isn't for people to worry about. It's written up to compare parts. Especially helps out those who are building up their own rigs. 
As I'm sure you know, some parts out there suck, some are great, but no doubt there's a huge selection these days to weed through. Heaviest does not mean strongest, lightest does not mean the weakest... 
We are on a freaking internet forum talking about bikes already, why not talk about the parts? :thumbsup:


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## joelalamo45 (Aug 3, 2006)

I said that only because there are people out there who think that having all the dopest parts make you a better rider... You know there are those people out there. That's who that comment was directed at.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

joelalamo45 said:


> I said that only because there are people out there who think that having all the dopest parts make you a better rider... You know there are those people out there. That's who that comment was directed at.


yeah, I gotcha, agree 100%.
unfortunate but true in this materialistic world.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

aggiebiker said:


> my premium c-clamp is 8.4. but i aint hatin your stem is still sicker.


You are correct I didnt see the premium or the KINK reliefe stem , both come in about 8.5oz WOW noow thats light !


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## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

joelalamo45 said:


> I said that only because there are people out there who think that having all the dopest parts make you a better rider... You know there are those people out there. That's who that comment was directed at.


i have dope parts, i know they dont make me better, its just that i have the money to piss away on said "dope parts" ,, how bout them apples...


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## joelalamo45 (Aug 3, 2006)

ok, then you don't fit into that category. I bet you and your super-light parts are the best rider on this forum. j/k


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## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

joelalamo45 said:


> ok, then you don't fit into that category. I bet you and your super-light parts are the best rider on this forum. j/k


i cant manual for shyt, and my biggest trick is an Xup.. but i look like king mack daddy pimpin rollin down sunset in hollywood..


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## joelalamo45 (Aug 3, 2006)

Sweet!


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## toonces (Feb 13, 2004)

i remember the late 90's when the ESPN and MTV brought BMX street riding into every house in America. all sorts of companies jumped on the bandwagon and made their heavy street bikes/frames that weighed 40# built with what felt like plumbing pipe. then riders started to grind their dropouts, cut their posts, shave their axles, use 36h wheels instead of 48... some riders started experimenting with Ti parts and frames (T1 for instance) then finally it looked like BMX borrowed from MTBs and started putting some thought into frame tubing and manufacturing instead of just angles. they started using butted tubing, higher end, lighter steel, more machined parts, etc. now it's not uncommon to see a 5.X# bmx _street_ frame and fully built street bikes under 30#. the funny thing is, MTB street/dirtjump is walking the same path. i'm seeing lighter dirtjump/urban frames. used to be hard to find a jump-specific (steel) frame under 7#, but now there seem to be a few in the 5# range and probably more to come.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

fiddy_ryder said:


> i cant manual for shyt, and my biggest trick is an Xup.. but i look like king mack daddy pimpin rollin down sunset in hollywood..


Don't you have a deathmobile?


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Well, just got myself a new clamp, what a RELIEF! as in Kink Relief stem that is... 
Double Duece Dot Duece for life brah!

This thing is the BEAT! so smooth, so trick, so light!

was gonna get black, but got the downtown brown instead.

check it out.

I'll come back with some direct feedback once I install it, with my chrome shinin' like an icicle, ride around town on my lowrider bicycle. I don't know what that was, I hate chrome, haha, but dig the old school Pauls Boutique. :wink:

























pardon the sharpie'd bars, I don't like the white logos, but it shows through with camera flash, haha!

This little piece is only 8.5 oz, comes with hollow chromo bolts too. Nice. still dig my Demolition F1 though, but it'll go somewhere else for the moment.

The only thing is, compared to my F1, or other S&M ******* ripoffs like animal jumpoff or mac cell, etc., this Kink Relief has 0deg rise, so it'll raise up my bars like 1/4" or so. Similar to an ODSY Elementary though, with the straight forward design.

oh yeah, props to Albes (dotcom), they hook it up nice everytime, core shop no doubt! 

Let's hear what you think! I think it's bringin' flames man!


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

unless my math is wrong, the black market underboss stem only weighs 6.95 oz. i never realized that it was so light... anybody have one?


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

They weigh it without the bolts.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Since this thread is back up top, check it.

Fit ECCD Seat its 8 ounces, LAF!

























Fit Down Low sprocket, its 2 fvcking ounces for a 25t









Fit Down Low stem, its 10 ounces, not too bad at all.









The S&M Race XLT fork, its 30 ounces, wouldnt touch it for any kind of street use though









The DK R/T fork, ****in 25 ounces









Subrosa knows where its at, the Pandora frame looks sick, has good geo and is LAF to boot. 4.8 pounds, damn son thats light









S&M is goin fvckin crazy light now, the LTF frame (Lighter Than Fvck) its rumored to be 3.8-3.9 pounds and its gotta be street worthy caus Bob Scerbo has been rockin it for a while

































Now Duo is droppin a new Pivotal seat. Its a collaboration Duo x Rogue Status (I <3 Rogue status  )
https://www.defgrip.net/v3/exclusives/duo_preview/duo_preview.html gotta post the link since its set up like Grind State

Damn I love light parts!


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

I want a LTF so bad, or a Tierra. That plus a DK R/T fork and I'd have such a light setup. Wish I could afford a Ti Reaper though...


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Yeah dude, the LTF is gonna be my next frame. I was really thinking about the Tierra but I dont like how fvcking small it is. If they offer a 21.5 tt I may get it, but Im leanin twords the LTF

What do you think about the R/T fork? I do alot of street riding, no pegs, only ever do pedal grinds and feebles. Big 8+ stair sets arent my thing either. Do you really think I could get away with the R/T fork?


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

We have a similar style, except I don't grind, and I would rock it no problem. But I weigh 145# max. 

I like my Fly so much I just can't ever see selling it unless it breaks. Every time I ride I get a smile on because it fits me so well. The Tierra is offered in 21", that's not small. I'm 6' 1" and rock a 21", and I'm lanky as ****. 

I just don't think I'd like the tiny backend with the long frontend.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Not bad dude, I'm 6'3 and 160 I used to be around your weight but I had to bulk up for lax. 

And yeah the long front with the short rear might be a bit wierd, nothing I couldnt get used to though. I still think I'll stick to a LTF and grind off everything break related.


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

short rear long front is really more of trails thing it seems. i like a nice balance with a short backend.

my weight savings:

hollow bolts
thompson stem
stump post
sl seat
ti spindle
dual air fork
micro drive
ultra lite tubes
shaved axles

and a few more here and there's.

bmx plus had a thing on shaving weight a few months back, took 2.something lbs of a bmx for $85 wow!


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## NoBrakes! (Jun 15, 2007)

how much does the Giant stp weigh


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

NoBrakes! said:


> how much does the Giant stp weigh


Probably in the 32 to 34lbs range, bone stock.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

snaky69 said:


> Probably in the 32 to 34lbs range, bone stock.


Yeah not exactly a weight weenie bike.


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## BrokenBones??!! (May 28, 2007)

I really like Tree sprockets. I have a 25T gold lite sprocket. The name says it all. It's super light, and super strong. I also like it because of the fact that not alot of people really know about the company or at least in my click of riders. Everyone is into the profile imperials, but i have seen way to many teeth break off of them, NOT COOL! STRENGTH AND LIGHT WEIGHT, what else can you ask for???:thumbsup:


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

BrokenBones??!! said:


> STRENGTH AND LIGHT WEIGHT, what else can you ask for???:thumbsup:


How about good looks.... oh wait the Tree sprocket has that too


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## BrokenBones??!! (May 28, 2007)

Vinny A said:


> How about good looks.... oh wait the Tree sprocket has that too


Thanks Vinny A I knew i forgot something. How can you forget looks lol.

Thanks


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

i'm getting the odyssey mds in a 25t as soon as i have the $ that thing is light!!


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Vinny A, nice post. 

ECCD is fit. LTF is scerbilicious.


Like that duo action too but I think the low key kink is where I'm stayin'.







I probably should post up some stuff about where I ground off the ISO tabs from my DJ2 as well as the disc bolt holes from my 20mm hub, but I don't have much access to that stuff from here atm...


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Yeah post it up later dude, it definately belongs here. I'll post up about goin brakeless and grinding the brake mounts off. 

Dude as soon as the LTF drops Im gettin one


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## rmbnick (Jun 10, 2007)

this is like longer then my hs essay's f'n a


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## rowlands (Jan 30, 2006)

BikeSATORI said:


> bringin' it on back home to mtb...
> 
> check this, just noticed it on matchvideozine even though it was posted a month ago or so...
> which, they deemed as the "Lightest Mob they have ever seen" comin' in at a pencil lead breaking, pop can denting 21 pounds! damn that is light... ligther than many "weight weenie" bmx bikes as well as full-on XC race bikes!!? I honestly would say that it TOO light for a bike of this nature... incredible feat nontheless... but hurry up and change it back so you don't impale yourself upon these feather shards!


 could be 1/2 pound lighter if it was a mob


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Newest weight weenie fork: 

















The Odyssey Director fork
- New steerer tube and leg joint is stronger than conventional designs.
- Butted and tapered "direct" legs prevent rail and grind hang-ups.
- 10mm hollow integrated leg dropouts.
- 1 lb. 15.6 oz. (895.8g) with uncut 170mm steerer tube and pre-load bolt.
- 3/8" axle slots only.
- Rustproof finishing prior to powdercoating.
- Black and white (limited soon).

Completly street worthy too, 1 pound 15 ounces thats INSANE!


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## Ths.is.insanity (Aug 22, 2007)

I read about half of the whole thread, but i was to excited to post that i kinda stopped. I ALWAYS thought that bikes were WAY to over-built. I have a Gary Fisher Marlin stock. I went DJing with it for the first time, and i overshot the jump. Bike was fine, seatrails are another story. Well, check out the atomlab General Issue parts. They are Cromoly, but they are really light. The complete GI bike is mostly cromo, but it weights 30.51 lbs if i remember correctly. they are also strong as hell, so i hear.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

rowlands said:


> could be 1/2 pound lighter if it was a mob


what are you talking about? That is a Mob, this bike was built and featured before the Riot was even produced (as far as I know!) :thumbsup:


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## -.---.- (Jun 15, 2007)

For me, I'll take light stuff but its limited by finances and of course im not too obsessed with weight...put if I can make something lighter without much trouble, I will.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

http://www.odysseybmx.com/dailyword/archives/2007/08/where_are_the_p.html

true innovation.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

You guys like the kevlar in the KHE tires? Like the tread of the Ruben tires? Now youve got both

Callejera rear 1.90: 555gr. (1.22 lb.)

Callejera rear 2.0: 570 gr. (1.25 lb.)

Campillera front 2.15: 600gr (1.32 lb.)

Capillera front 2.25: 610gr (1.34 lb.)

They are about 70grs (2.5 oz) lighter on the callejeras (rear) and 60grs (2.1 oz) lighter on the campilleras (front)

Because of the silkworm material, each tire can vary the weight + - 20grs. (0.7 oz) So these weights are made weighting some tires and calculating the average weight.










Fly seat:








9.8 zips, not too bad for a railed seat

Sunday Black Magic:
Black Wave!

























At Interbike we had on display the lightest Sunday frame that we have ever done. I dubbed it the Black Magic on one of the web videos, but I just called it the Black Wave above. It weighed in at just over 4.5 lbs or 4lbs 8ozs. Basically this frame is the same as new frame with a few differences.








First, there's NO paint on this frame. The black coating is the rustproof coating that has been on every frame we have offered. From the first frame in 2005 to the Wave last year, the rustproofing has been there. It is the black stuff that's inside the frame tubes and under the paint that makes your frame really difficult to strip. Paint has some weight to it, the frame with paint weights a little over a quarter pound more than the BLACK WAVE/BLACK MAGIC.









The second major feature of this frame is the shaved headtube. The headtube has NOT changed in length or height at all, so your geometry is not different at all. The difference is the upper part of the 'cup' has been removed as shown in the left and center photos above. The 45 degree angles on the headtube are still there, but the upper part has been removed. The headtube shaving ends up revealing the bearings as seen in the photo on the right. This isn't drastic weight savings just helping to eliminate excess material on the frame.

There you go, the inside info on the 'Black Magic/Wave' frame. It will be offer in 20.5, 20.75, 21 and 21.25 along with brake and brakeless options. Ian Schwartz's frame will also come in Black Magic/Wave style. Look for them in February or March, I can't give you and exact date. Next up Ian Schwartz's frame. Leave any questions in the comments and I'll get to them!

Aight im done for now, more to come later on tonight


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## Waiting for RAD 2 (Oct 19, 2007)

The more weight I save on my bike the more I can put into my beer gut! 

Really though I try to go light on parts I haven't broke and heavy on parts that I have. One thing I haven't been able to figure out though is balancing out the front and back. Suspension forks are heavy compared to what the weight of a SS driver and chain are. Food for thought, a heavy bike does provide more stability, but less flick-ability in the air.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

vinny, got a price on those tires?


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Yeah right around the KHE tires

comin up soon from me:
new cranks from Macniel
new bars from odyssey
new frames from FBM
new frames from fit
and more


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Two new products from Odyssey (I have lots more from them)









Sorry for the **** quality, my computer got raped by a virus and deleted my photo shop and alot of other things on it.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Alright one more:









I have no idea what I was thinking with the colors but its better than the white background... even though it does make them look even more sh*tty

Edit:








much better picture of the Lum4jacks


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

yo' word Vinny, all killer no filler ma' man! 

keep the vibe alive! 


I'll add some shift later if I get a chance, lots of new stuff to go in...


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

alright guys coming up tonight:
new frames from fit
some more tasty parts from odyssey
fit sky high bars


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