# Too much bike for a beginner?



## kaze (Sep 19, 2014)

Can there be too much bike for a beginner?

Should I just buy a cheap bike to start out with or buy a good one with carbon wheels and such(at a closeout price)?


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

kaze said:


> Can there be too much bike for a beginner?
> 
> Should I just buy a cheap bike to start out with or buy a good one with carbon wheels and such(at a closeout price)?


If you can, buy the best you can afford.... advice from fellow beginner that upgraded a $1000 dollar HT in less than a year. Even if you find out you do not like the sport, your used upper end bike will sell faster and for a better price than an entry level will.


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## Saladin (Sep 25, 2014)

Get the best in your budget. There are 3 possible outcomes:

1) If you stick with it, your skills will grow into the bike.

2) If you don't stick with it and don't keep riding, you're out that much more money for a garage decoration.

3) And finally, if you get a cheap bike and stick with it and develop to riding hard, you're going to tear up the bike and spend the money you should've spent on a better bike doing repairs to the cheap one.

Ideally you want the first one.


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## kaze (Sep 19, 2014)

Won't a beginner practicing on an expensive bike just destroy it? Falling and crashing often seems to be inevitable for a beginner.


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## Saladin (Sep 25, 2014)

kaze said:


> Won't a beginner practicing on an expensive bike just destroy it? Falling and crashing often seems to be inevitable for a beginner.


Crashing that much will destroy you before it destroys a good bike.


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## kaze (Sep 19, 2014)

That makes absolute sense. 

By the way, what do you think of the choice between an 14 sworks stumpy wc and an 14 te01 str. Both can be had at 5.4k. I love the te01 frame but prefer the xx1. Would buying an xx1 groupset and swapping the xtr out and selling it be a stupid thing to do? 

I'm not really confident in the RS brain ob the specialized after reading about people having issues with them even with multiple exchanges either.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

which feels the best?


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## kaze (Sep 19, 2014)

Theyre both out of state purchases. I know how to ride a bicycle to get from point a to b on flat/unchallenging terrain and nothing more so I wouldn't be able to tell which one felt better.


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## asanatheist (Sep 15, 2014)

I would advice going in between $800-$1,200 if money and the loss of money isn't a concern.
Otherwise go for a $600 bike and wait until YOU can push your bike to it's limits.


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## Saladin (Sep 25, 2014)

asanatheist said:


> I would advice going in between $800-$1,200 if money and the loss of money isn't a concern.
> Otherwise go for a $600 bike and wait until YOU can push your bike to it's limits.


Agreed for the most part. $8-12K sounds much more reasonable. $5,400 is a lot for a starter bike. If you're already in fairly good shape, and you're always pushing yourself to get better and riding harder, then I think you'll do as I did and tear up a $600 bike before very long. For a little bit more, you can get one with much better components.

Visit a bike shop and do some test riding. Find the bike that feels the best to you. We can give some suggestions for bikes within a price range, but no one here could say with certainty that the TrailStomper X3000 is the perfect bike for you.


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

I am not a believer that beginners should get crappy gear, I think it should be the opposite as crappy gear is always harder to use and less forgiving. Beginner guitars are total crap and much harder to play than normal guitars, beginner cameras have almost no functionality compared to regular cameras making many things overly difficult, and beginner bikes are heavy and cumbersome compared to normal bikes. "Beginner" almost always means "hard to use" which doesnt make any sense.

You want to draw the line at professional/enthusiast gear though. Dont go overboard into areas that only pros would make use of, but dont go so crappy that you suffer for it.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I would probably tend to recommend not spending that much money (as in much over a couple thousand on a newish bike) until you've done some riding and really know what you want out of a bike. You might get lucky and end up with something that's just right for the riding you end up liking most, but you'd be much more likely to make better choices when you've spent some time learning more about the sport. 

Jumping way ahead and thinking you'd prefer xx1 over XTR, etc makes no sense until you've ridden quite a bit and can really quantify the differences and how they apply to you personally.


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## kaze (Sep 19, 2014)

Well, I was told they cover the similar ranges so no reason for a 3x10 XTR as it is more complex. 

I was thinking long term. Spending 1.5k now and then buying another 5k bike is less than just buying a 5k bike once. But what do I know?


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

No, I still stand with buy the best you can easily afford. It makes zero sense to buy something now, especially if you can spring for the better, only to already be expecting to replace it sooner than later. I would recommend though finding these bikes and sitting on them as they will definitely feel different.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Then there is dealing with the noob wannabe on a pricey bike vibe that may crop up and follow you from various trail heads, for awhile.

Me personally, I'd want to have some significant skills before I threw a leg over an S-Works.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

I guess riders in your area might be more elitist then those around me, but the only thing anyone has said to this overweight under skilled noob was "that's a really nice bike you have". Besides who cares what others think, enjoy what you have, and ride it like you stole it!


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## asanatheist (Sep 15, 2014)

Phinias said:


> I guess riders in your area might be more elitist then those around me, but the only thing anyone has said to this overweight under skilled noob was "that's a really nice bike you have". Besides who cares what others think, enjoy what you have, and ride it like you stole it!


It's not about elitism (in fact far from it) it's about practicality. What can you practically accomplish being new to the sport in 2-3 or even 5 years. Chances are you still won't be at a level for a S-works bike.


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## kaze (Sep 19, 2014)

That's one of the reasons I don't really want to be on an sworks bike. The BMC isn't that popular around here so I probably wont get judged as much.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

If money is no object, I'd get a really nice bike and not worry about it. Everything is a bit smoother with them and (assuming it's set up right geometry-wise), it should be a bit easier as it's lighter/pedals a bit better/shifts faster/etc.. Those things are nice, even if you're a beginner.

If money is at all a concern though, I'd get a cheaper bike. Most of the very high end improvements are incremental for exponential increases in price. A two thousand dollar bike is going to be really freaking nice (esp. during closeout season), will likely last any user several years, and the depreciation it will suffer will only be a fraction of what an SWorks costs, so if you decide to upgrade and could afford the Sworks in the first place, it's not a huge deal.

Plus if you start with a slightly less expensive bike, you can still keep the dream alive that you're going to get an even nicer bike and suddenly ride better. Can't claim that if you start at the top of the line.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Saladin said:


> Crashing that much will destroy you before it destroys a good bike.


Does that also apply to carbon fiber?


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## tobimaru (Aug 29, 2014)

Buyers remorse would be a real ***** on a $5,700 bike purchase when you go and ride a $1,200 bike and realize it can/will get the job done for YEARS to come if you do your part. I personally like the idea if I go and completely wreck my bike tomorrow, I can go buy another one brand new, several times over if I had to. Had I purchased a very expensive bike, I'd be obsessive about every scratch and probably couldn't afford to break anything on it. :-/

Then again there are people who buy their kids $40,000 first cars, so maybe a $5,000 bike is just a drop in the bucket.


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## hawks (Aug 18, 2014)

i can speak from experince as i was in your shoes earlier this year... Being new to the sport not knowing if i would want to pursue it and opted for an entry level Devinci... 

The bug hit and im in love with the sport and would say i've out grown the HT and bought a new FS bike at a year end clearance. I wish i would have taken the adice above and bought what i could afford as now i own two bikes and have only been riding half a season... 

So as said above my reco is buy what you can afford not what your ability is as the pro's out way the con's as stated...


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

The advice to buy the best you can get is a little simplistic.
Upper end bikes are not identical. Finding the bike that fits your terrain and style is usually part of the deal. Without any experience that becomes pretty difficult.
I wouldn't like the geo on those two...too old school race oriented with stiff efficiency is top priority frames. Things have moved on. It might be better to ask for some recommendations.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

It really all boils down to what your comfortable spending. If you can afford to drop 5 large on a bike and that's what you want to do, and you won't feel bad if you don't really get into riding, or the bike you bought doesn't fit your riding style, and realize you're not going recoup your investment (used bikes depreciate incredibly quickly), there's really no reason not to. Nice bikes are definitely fun to ride, though I personally have found you don't really have to spend a ton of $$ to get a nice bike. But if money is no object, go nuts!

Personally, for me, if I were going to spend that kind of dough, I would be going custom, but I also have a very good idea of what I'd want.


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## hawks (Aug 18, 2014)

True about it being simplistic. I should have qualified it buy saying once you have an understanding of your riding terrain and type


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## kaze (Sep 19, 2014)

Another thing I noticed is that, to get carbon wheels separately costs a ton! A closeout high end bike that comes with carbon wheels might cost 5k. But discounted carbon wheels cost upwards of 1800 by themselves. From what I've read carbon wheels are the best upgrades you can get for a bike.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Saladin said:


> Crashing that much will destroy you before it destroys a good bike.


Yep exactly!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Carbon wheels are evolving like everything else. Some companies are more ahead than others without regard to the list price. And again use and terrain comes into the equation.
No Enve for me even at a big discount. Same with Bonty and Easton especially on a hard tail I want to ride distance on.


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## kaze (Sep 19, 2014)

English isn't my first language so sorry in advance if I'm misinterpreting what you are trying to say. 

Are you saying that carbon wheels aren't durable? Or does it tire you out when going long distances?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

kaze said:


> Another thing I noticed is that, to get carbon wheels separately costs a ton! A closeout high end bike that comes with carbon wheels might cost 5k. But discounted carbon wheels cost upwards of 1800 by themselves. From what I've read carbon wheels are the best upgrades you can get for a bike.


Riding more is hands-down the best upgrade. The person that rides more will pretty much always be a better rider than the person that just spends the most money. If what you're mostly wanting is a really expensive bike, then spend, spend, spend. If what your mostly wanting is to become a capable mountain biker, then ride, ride, ride. If you want both, do both. But never think you can spend your way into becoming a good rider - it don't work that way.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Carbon wheels are very stiff. Add standard race width versions to a stiff race frame without compliance and you will get beat up in rocky terrain at longer distances.
It can work over relatively smooth trails and be very fast. I don't ride anything like that.
You're in Orange County. Demos in your area are a way to begin determining which bike works for you on area trails.


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## kaze (Sep 19, 2014)

Oh I absolutely understand that. I race karts and nothing can replace seat time. Racing karts cost a lot more(chassis gets destroyed easily at 5k a pop) than bikes so I thought that getting a good bike the first time round would be a good idea since it doesn't break like a kart does.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

You could help me get a good kart. Probably not without some changes you know would be good choices. That would give me the best chance of having fun in the sport. I wouldn't try that on my own without a lot of research.


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## Saladin (Sep 25, 2014)

As a beginner, carbon wheels shouldn't really even be a consideration at this point.


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## kaze (Sep 19, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> You could help me get a good kart. Probably not without some changes you know would be good choices. That would give me the best chance of having fun in the sport. I wouldn't try that on my own without a lot of research.


First, unlike a bike, you can have too much kart. Start with a kpv engine. Fractured my ribs just from the lateral Gs driving the TaG engines when I started out.

Any of the big name karts do well, Tony kart/kosmic/FA (same manufacturer) being the preference of many. I drive a birel which is a good kart but maybe not as easy to tune. Local track support is probably the most important factor here.

You most obviously should start out in a good used kart because you will crash and bend that kart and it may never be good enough for you to race competitively.

and nothing beats seat time. I have outrun many a shifter kart that has twice the power and grip in a low powered single speeder.

Sorry for going off topic


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

more bike = fewer excuses.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I go back and forth on this.

I love my full suspension 29er. And lately, I've enjoyed some bigger bikes at demo days. But it's more bike to deal with of I find myself in over my head. That never happens, of course. 

I still ride my 26" hardtail regularly. It fits behind my desk at work.  One of the strengths of that bike is that of I'm fighting it, there's less bike to fight.

It reminds me a little bit of moving from a mid-fat all mountain ski to my stiffer, fatter (at least, for their time) freeride skis - they really let me ski like I mean it, but I have to mean it. (K2 Public Enemies to Volkl Mantras, if anyone's curious.) In the same way, I think I had to be ready for a taller, longer bike before the one I have now would click with me.

Ride a few bikes and buy your favorite. At $2700, you should already be looking at a pretty solid package. Spend more if you like - it's a free country. Keep in mind that a lot of people's riding evolves a lot in the first season. Think about how many seasons you need this bike to last to feel you got your money's worth.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> I would probably tend to recommend not spending that much money (as in much over a couple thousand on a newish bike) until you've done some riding and really know what you want out of a bike. You might get lucky and end up with something that's just right for the riding you end up liking most, but you'd be much more likely to make better choices when you've spent some time learning more about the sport.
> 
> Jumping way ahead and thinking you'd prefer xx1 over XTR, etc makes no sense until you've ridden quite a bit and can really quantify the differences and how they apply to you personally.


(Assuming budget is not a super-critical issue for you): This. And then plan on getting a new bike somewhere down the line. It's likely that you will either way.

If you ask folks here, many will advise you to get the bike they bought, or wish they could buy. Why wouldn't they? It is what they chose.

It's hard to let go of our own bias and truly consider someone else's unique situation.

If you can afford to get a little nicer bike to cut your teeth on, more power to you, but if you go whole hog at this time, you'll probably still be getting a new bike because you won't likely get it right for YOU and YOUR situation on the first try.

After you get a year or two of riding under your belt, you'll have a much better idea of your personal preferences and what works best where you like to ride (and you don't know what you don't know).

You can get a very nice hardtail for $2,000 to $2,500 or a modest, but not entry level full suspension for $2,500 to $3,000. Shop carefully, and you won't take too much of a beating when you sell it to get your 2nd bike (the one you'll more likely make make a better choice on). You could throttle back on the hardtail into the $1,500 to $2,000 range and still have a pretty good hardtail for someone of your ability. If you're going to go full suspension, I'd still recommend that you get something better than an entry level full suspension. I'd rather have a nice hardtail, than an entry level full suspension (JMHO).

For the money you're spending, I would recommend that you try to end up with Shimano SLX or XT brakes by either getting a bike that comes with them, or plan some budget (about $200 +/-) to get them aftermarket. For the money you are spending, the wheels should be tubeless ready (though you don't need to actually go tubeless just yet).

No matter what bike you get, make certain it is the right size. An ill fitting bike will suck no matter what it costs.

Don't worry about whether someone else doesn't like the brand of bike you chose unless they are paying for it. Ride what you like. Screw the haters.

I know from personal experience that you have at least two EXCELLENT shops in your area hat should be able to put you on a good bike for the local trails. Let me know if you'd like me to PM you the names of them.

Good luck and have fun bike shopping.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

It's not totally different. You can have too twitchy a race oriented bike or too much suspension for your trails. And like karts, nothing beats seat time and physical capability. You may crash a few times, but bikes hold up well and parts are easy to replace. $5.5k budget or so I would look at three 29 hard tails with excellent rear compliance and slack geo. A Pivot Les, an Orbea Alma M whatever fits your budget and a Trek Superfly 9.8 X1 2015.
Reviews of the Pivot--
Tested: Pivot LES 29 ? Flow Mountain Bike
Pivot Les: Final Review (The Trail Perspective)
This review includes info on Wide Lightning wheels. Those or carbon Specialized Traverse SL Fatties or customs with 35/30mm carbon rims from carbonbicycle.cc will increase compliance from added volume plus sidewall support to keep you from washing out and you can ride safer.
Orbea Alma M Team - first ride review - BikeRadar
There are no reviews for the Trek 9.6-9.8 bikes. They are new this year. The compliance and geo are excellent and the value is very good. Sold out for 2014.
I ride the 9.8 but not an X1. I have both Wide Lightnings and Chinese carbon wheels. I would give some version of that bike a high recommendation. The compliance is likely the best of these three. It's geo is better than the 9.9SL developed last year.



kaze said:


> First, unlike a bike, you can have too much kart.
> You most obviously should start out in a good used kart because you will crash and bend that kart and it may never be good enough for you to race competitively.
> 
> and nothing beats seat time. I have outrun many a shifter kart that has twice the power and grip in a low powered single speeder.


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

If you have the money, I don't see anything wrong with dropping cash on a sweet bike. However, as a noob, your tastes and style for riding is almost guaranteed to evolve. You might want a different bike within the first year. My advice would be to spend 800-2500 on a trail bike that can get you into the sport. Then ride with as many different people and do as many demo days as possible. And ride the crap out of your bike. As far as carbon rims go, I prefer having a couple nice sets of aluminum rims over 1 set of carbon. 


Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

moefosho said:


> However, as a noob, your tastes and style for riding is almost guaranteed to evolve. You might want a different bike within the first year. My advice would be to spend 800-2500 on a trail bike that can get you into the sport. Then ride with as many different people and do as many demo days as possible. And ride the crap out of your bike.


Makes sense.

Get a pretty good bike - as good as you can without sacrificing something that is actually important. In a year or two, you are likely to find out things that you like, or don't like, and make a more informed decision on what kind of a bike you really should have.


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

perttime said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> Get a pretty good bike - as good as you can without sacrificing something that is actually important. In a year or two, you are likely to find out things that you like, or don't like, and make a more informed decision on what kind of a bike you really should have.


Yeah. I have bought around to 20 different bikes(mostly used) in the last 4 years. My tastes in riding have changed and I love trying new bikes. If you drop all of your budget on a new Superbike you sort of lock yourself into that steed for a while.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## mrciave (Apr 24, 2012)

You're already racing some sort of wheeled vehicle. It means you probably have the mental attitude to tune and understand settings and different parts and so on. And depending on how good a racer you are, you might know well how to drive smooth and nurse your vehicle/tires rather than drive hard and wear/destroy them (for the same lap time I mean). So probably there's no too much bike for you.

This said, if you're jumping into MTBing for fun, don't skip too many steps together. The better bike you buy today, the less you have to discover in the future. My experience says that a good 3-4000EUR range bike (I mean full XT or full X0, basically one step below the top of the line) will be more durable that the XTR/XX/XX1 equivalent, simply because extreme lightness comes at a price, which is durability or service interval. And, from a psychological point of view, you want to have many "Christmas times" when you'll try a better suspension, better brakes, wheels. If you spoil yourself with top of the line today, what remains for you tomorrow?

And, regarding the carbon, I think that, for the first bike, stay away from it (at least for the wheels). As in any vehicle, flex is the friend of the rookie, stiffness is the friend of the pro. Feeling = right flex for the speed you're riding. Ride a stiff bike too slow (case of a beginner on a carbon bike in most cases) -> No feeling, almost intimidating. Ride a flex bike too fast (case of a pro on a lesser bike) -> Too much flex and movement, can't hold line or whatever.

I ride MTBs from the nineties. My last bike is a SC Bronson Carbon with Enve wheels, XX1, everything top. Great bike but... Either you ride it like you stole it, or it's too stiff (especially the wheels), and gives no feedback. I love it but probably, if I rode it when I wasn't as good as now in my riding, it would simply intimidate me. When I ride my old Stumpjumper FSR Expert from 2005 (Alu, SLX/XT mix of components), I can have a lot of fun even when going 90% of my capabilities.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Go to the local trail, find the people that look like they know what they are doing (you can tell, their bike is dirty in all the right places, and clean in the important ones). See what they are riding, ask what the trails are like, and ask them "given your budget, what would they buy?" Do this for a couple of days at a couple of local trails, then go demo/ ride in the parking lot their suggestions. Then make up your mind. Your budget will get you a very nice ride that will fit almost any trail condition and riding style there is, you just need to do some research to figure it out.


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## velo99 (Apr 18, 2014)

I would get a 2014 maybe even a 2013.bike in the 400-500 range. Most LBS knock off a good chunk when the new models come out. These bikes can be had at a good discount if you can haggle.


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## asanatheist (Sep 15, 2014)

That's what I had in mind when I suggested a budget bike.

You never know if you will fall in love with when mountain biking. Could be all mountain, downhill, or uphill (or freeride)
All of those require slightly to greatly differentiating geometries and components. Some are dramatic in their differences such as the case of an uphill bike on a downhill trail. You will be more susceptible to OTB.

Imagine how silly you will feel when you drop $5,000 on your bike and realize you prefer one of the different disciplines.


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## Iamrockandroll13 (Feb 10, 2013)

My suggestion is to buy a used "top of the line"'ish bike that's between 1 and 3 years old. You want to be on good equipment to start out, but this way you don't take quite the depreciation hit that you would on a new bike if you decide to switch to a different style of bike or you just end up not liking the bike. Once you know exactly what you like and what kind of riding you are going to be doing, build yourself a bike. Either from a stock frame and pick the parts, build the wheels, etc... or go with a custom frame and parts spec from a reputable builder.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

the thing is ,unlike say skiing if you put a newb on a properly set up full suspension carbon wonder bike they will ride with more confidence and get better faster. There are very few things in the MTBing world that better for an expert actually makes it harder for a newb. Which is very different from skiing in which stiffer expert level skis just do not work well for newbs.


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## Bttocs (Jun 21, 2014)

I just bought a $1000 hardtail as my first mountain bike and rode it all summer. What I learned is I really like single track and enjoy the challenge of somewhat technical terrain. As others have advised, I learned what I enjoy and what kind of bikes are best for that terrain. My HT is a good bike and I really enjoy it for all around riding. It works well on short road trips and really shines as a XC ride, which is what it is made for. Bottom line is I will keep it and eventually look for a full suspension AM or trail ride when my skills bump up a few levels and the budget allows. If I knew ahead of time I would like the tech. trails and close they are to where I live, I would have gone for a FS bike right off the bat, but the budget would have gone waaay up to get a decent one. I figure since I am getting up to speed on the sport, I can always keep my eye open for a good deal in the future.


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## Samuryan (Sep 3, 2014)

Bttocs said:


> I just bought a $1000 hardtail as my first mountain bike and rode it all summer. What I learned is I really like single track and enjoy the challenge of somewhat technical terrain. As others have advised, I learned what I enjoy and what kind of bikes are best for that terrain. My HT is a good bike and I really enjoy it for all around riding. It works well on short road trips and really shines as a XC ride, which is what it is made for. Bottom line is I will keep it and eventually look for a full suspension AM or trail ride when my skills bump up a few levels and the budget allows. If I knew ahead of time I would like the tech. trails and close they are to where I live, I would have gone for a FS bike right off the bat, but the budget would have gone waaay up to get a decent one. I figure since I am getting up to speed on the sport, I can always keep my eye open for a good deal in the future.


This is me with 2 seasons on my starter bike. Have been considerate of upgrades that WILL transfer to other/next bike. Keep all parts with intention of reassembling original bike for reuse or sale. Have as much fun as possible riding/learning about what you really want. Gain skills and progress your riding ability.

As a beginner i saw my skills improve drastically by riding all the time. Reading as much as i possibly could on here helped me upgrade slowly to transferable gear that will retain value.

*edit* Forgot to mention, all of this MADE me learn how to work on my bike.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

the problem with most hardtails is that they have what I call "midwestern" geometery. steep headangle, long stays, and shorter top tube. The bike steer fast, but is honestly a handleful on anything tech and not flat. If you own a bike like this and ride it though tech fine than you are probably a great rider not a newb. 

If you live anywhere that actually had downhills longer than a couple hundred vert/and or steep gnarly stuff they just kind of feel like crap. bikes like a Trans Ams, Honzo, some ragleys, Nimble 9 are not like that but are the exception and not the norm.

I would also contend that riding a FS on certain terrain is totally different skill set than riding a hardtail. Once the small bumps become enough no amount of pumping is going to make up for suspension not to mention you will choose cleaner....but not always faster lines on the hardtail.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

jackstone said:


> It is not good too much bike for a beginner.If you select one bike then you can easily studey about the particular bike and their functions.


Where ya from sailor?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Glide the Clyde said:


> Where ya from sailor?


Click on his name, click view profile, click about me...India.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

This is simple, a bike is not a Ferrari, the quality of the bike and overall increased ability will not "get away" from him. There is zero negative to starting out on a great bike be it 3000 bucks or 10k. He/she will learn all the same skills they would on a 1500 dollar HT, but will not have to upgrade it in a year or two to get the components they want. 

OP go get your bike, get a good one and avoid the inevidable upgrade.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Phinias said:


> There is zero negative to starting out on a great bike be it 3000 bucks or 10k.


Assuming that you are a person who'll notice the difference between spending or keeping 3000 bucks or 10k - there is a negative.

As a newb, a person doesn't know what he/she needs/wants/likes in a bike. In a few months, one might discover that the 10k bike - whether gold plated fixie, downhill sled, or a carbon XC bike - is not the right bike after all. So, a little restraint in the urge to spend money is usually a good idea for a FIRST bike.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

perttime said:


> Assuming that you are a person who'll notice the difference between spending or keeping 3000 bucks or 10k - there is a negative.
> 
> As a newb, a person doesn't know what he/she needs/wants/likes in a bike.


My advice in the thread earlier about hanging out at the local trails and seeking the advice of the experienced riders in the area and asking them for suggestions and conditions in the area before buying must have been over looked....

Even without, it would be better for him to invest in a competent trail bike at 3k, than spend 1k or so on a bike he will replace in less than a year, or have to throw as much money into upgrades and repairs. The loss of value on better bikes is much lower and demand higher, if for some reason he didn't like his "style" bike, meaniing he would lose less money either way.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Phinias said:


> My advice in the thread earlier about hanging out at the local trails and seeking the advice of the experienced riders in the area and asking them for suggestions and conditions in the area before buying must have been over looked....


Yes.
And I will keep overlooking it, to a point.

Getting local advice is good. How do you know that the newb will agree with all the advice that will inevitable be given, after a few months?

Are you telling me that the newb can get $2000 for the $3000 bike after a few months of riding, or $8000 for the 10k bike?


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

"How do you know that the newb will agree with all the advice that will inevitable be given, after a few months?"

Because a noob will be riding the trails that are close to him, he/all us other noobs are working on foundational skills and not traveling out of our area to visit different types of terrain. He will get the best advice from the knowledgable riders in his are ast to type of bike works on the his type of local terrain that he will be riding atleast 90% of his time.

We really like to disagree.... are you related to my wife?

"Are you telling me that the newb can get $2000 for the $3000 bike after a few months of riding, or $8000 for the 10k bike?"

Absolutely, year old bikes in my neck of the woods go for more than 80% of their sold value. Also the higher the entry point the better they hold thier value especially when lightly used by a noob in easier trails.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

In my region, new bikes drop about 40% of their value when they're wheeled out of the shop.

A bike someone's ridden a lot for a season would drop a ton of resale.

That's part of why I'm a fan of used bikes for people who need not to take a hit like that on choosing the wrong class of bike, wrong size, etc.


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## hawks (Aug 18, 2014)

I agree that buying used or a entry level bike first is a good route. Bikes in my area drop almost 50% when ridden at all... They are as bad if nor worse than a car from that perspective. 

The other piece is who knows if they will even like it... Try a bike rent one etc... Then make an educated decision... 

entry level bikes work way fine for a newbie and truly will last on XC trails at least around my neck of the woods without a problem with proper maintence for a long time.


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## Jake January (Sep 12, 2014)

I'll throw my 2 cents in,.

I just bought a lightly used base 2013 Specialized Rockhopper. I'm an old geezer type rider not a thrasher, but it seems like a very well equipped and strong machine.
I got the bike for relatively cheap, $400.
As I'm riding everyday and getting stronger I'm studying the bikes and see the bike I really want is the Jeff Jones titanium space frame with a Rohloff built by cycle monkey. 
I'm glad I didn't spend much on my starter bike because the bike I want is very expensive.
In the mean time the $400 rockhopper 29'er is a blast, ya really don't have throw a ton of money around to have fun.

I threw a Brooks B17, lifted the handlebars some and lights on her and ride. Great bike IMHO.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

kaze said:


> Well, I was told they cover the similar ranges so no reason for a 3x10 XTR as it is more complex.
> 
> I was thinking long term. Spending 1.5k now and then buying another 5k bike is less than just buying a 5k bike once. But what do I know?


Told by whom? They don't cover the same range. 1x11 works for some, but not other. There are plenty of people that 1x11 doesn;t work for. You haven't ridden enough to know.

I'd suggest a middle ground - at $2500- 3k you can get some rally nice bikes, ride and learn then spend top dollar on your dream bike. You won't know what that bike is until to you start riding.
You might start riding and decide you want FS instead of a hardtail. You could end up really get into it and find you like more aggressive riding that need a completely different bike.

This is a pretty nice bike for 3k Solitude XTR/XT | Fezzari Bikes® A riding buddy just got one.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Phinias said:


> This is simple, a bike is not a Ferrari, the quality of the bike and overall increased ability will not "get away" from him. There is zero negative to starting out on a great bike be it 3000 bucks or 10k. He/she will learn all the same skills they would on a 1500 dollar HT, but will not have to upgrade it in a year or two to get the components they want.
> 
> OP go get your bike, get a good one and avoid the inevidable upgrade.


Sorry but bottom line you're full of it. Spending 10k doesn't avoid upgrades if he hasn't ridden enough to even know what type of bike will fit the riding style he ends up developing.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

TwoTone said:


> Sorry but bottom line you're full of it. Spending 10k doesn't avoid upgrades if he hasn't ridden enough to even know what type of bike will fit the riding style he ends up developing.


Again I disagree, at worst he will be out maybe a couple grand for what ever frame he needs and switch all the the high end components over to that style frame. He could then sell the other and recoup a good portion of the cost. In bikes that expensive all the components are top of the line and wilol work in most styles of riding, and those that need to change can be sold or traded for those he seeks. The loss with going highend is less then 1k-3k for the entry level bike.


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## hawks (Aug 18, 2014)

An entry level bike and a decent one at that is less than what you are saying he will lose! 

The best bet is an entry level bike and at most you will lose is that original purchase which likely isn;t the case... 

Buy an entry level HT for 1k and you will get a great ride...


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I feel pretty mixed about my Hardrock. Granted, the MSRP was $660, but that was back in 2007, before a couple of the price jumps. But I ended up replacing almost everything on that bike. It still had its original seatpost and collar, so there's that.

I feel like a number of the components weren't really even fit for purpose. The fork was the worst thing on there, but the wheels and shifters were about the only vanity upgrades. Everything else either broke or couldn't get through a race without requiring adjustment.

I started telling all my friends to take their $600 or whatever and get something secondhand. Ended up kicking myself for my own hurriedness every time someone took my advice.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

I still regret my 1K Talon/ now converted road bike. I find the concept of the entry level bike to just be terrible fiscal advice for anyone that knows they will like this sport. It will be replaced in a year or less as they are all essentially disposable at that price point and rarely worth 50% of their value with no components even worth switching over to other bikes. It takes a minimum of around $1500-2000 to get a decent HT from your local LBS, and now with the Stance out I would say $2200-3k for a full squish. It is the price of admission for a bike that won't need to be replaced and can do 90% of everything in your area. Even if you end up becomming a gravity junky or defy gravity junky you will always keep a trail bike around so that argument is pointless. 

Yes, you can take a new $600 bike on a trail and if ridden judiciously you can make it through pretty gnarley stuff. But you will be limited even as a beginner to what the bike is capable of and not what you may be capable of. I am sorry but even my fat, old, and winded self bumped up against my $1k bikes limit on my first trail ride, and after 3 times in the dirt I was already shopping.... DO NOT BUY BEGINNER BIKES, it is fiscally stupid.


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## blundar (Jan 18, 2013)

For a beginner, you would be amazed how much fun, skill gained, and fitness improvement you can get without spending a ton of money.

I would suggest getting something like an Airborne Seeker for just under $1k. It is a very well built HT with descent components that will not break the piggy bank. This will get you riding and experience on the trail with a bike that will easily last more than 2 years. Most of the components are also good enough to swap to another bike if you decide to upgrade later.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Phinias said:


> DO NOT BUY NEW BIKES, it is fiscally stupid.


Fixed that for ya!

:thumbsup:

I would consider most new $2k hardtails at the local shop pretty much garbage for that amount of money. I'd probably be willing to pay around 30% of MSRP for the typical level of performance you'd get going that route, tops. Anything more and I'd feel cheated.

Of course, this all boils down to money in the end. Some people don't care if they blow $10k on something they use a couple times. I wish I was in that boat myself.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

I would not disagree with the sentiment slap, the issue comes to fit for a beginner. I know 6 months ago I would have no idea what was a good fit or not. Andrew, in another thread post fitting found out he was doing something weird for years. As a beginner, buying used and getting a good fit to start may be a bit of a crap shoot..... If you recommend used than it should be with the caveat that you take along a knowledgable person to make sure you fit the bike and the bike fits the local trails. For second bike on.... sure why not. Personally I like having a shop to go to instead of getting nickled and dimed on replacement parts and I calculate that cost to be worth the 40% or so premium on a new bike, but my budget allows such.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Phinias said:


> ...snip...


I agree with all that also. Guess it's just part of the learning process when you're getting into it that you'll end up spending a lot more than you need to in many cases, particularly if you don't know any experienced riders that can help steer you in the right direction (or if those experienced riders are the type that love throwing money at bling and buzzwords).


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## tjchad (Aug 15, 2009)

gggggggggggggggg


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Phinias said:


> "How do you know that the newb will agree with all the advice that will inevitable be given, after a few months?"
> 
> Because a noob will be riding the trails that are close to him, he/all us other noobs are working on foundational skills and not traveling out of our area to visit different types of terrain. He will get the best advice from the knowledgable riders in his are ast to type of bike works on the his type of local terrain that he will be riding atleast 90% of his time.
> 
> ...





Phinias said:


> I still regret my 1K Talon/ now converted road bike. I find the concept of the entry level bike to just be terrible fiscal advice for anyone that knows they will like this sport.  It will be replaced in a year or less as they are all essentially disposable at that price point and rarely worth 50% of their value with no components even worth switching over to other bikes. It takes a minimum of around $1500-2000 to get a decent HT from your local LBS, and now with the Stance out I would say $2200-3k for a full squish. It is the price of admission for a bike that won't need to be replaced and can do 90% of everything in your area. Even if you end up becomming a gravity junky or defy gravity junky you will always keep a trail bike around so that argument is pointless.
> 
> Yes, you can take a new $600 bike on a trail and if ridden judiciously you can make it through pretty gnarley stuff. But you will be limited even as a beginner to what the bike is capable of and not what you may be capable of. I am sorry but even my fat, old, and winded self bumped up against my $1k bikes limit on my first trail ride, and after 3 times in the dirt I was already shopping.... DO NOT BUY BEGINNER BIKES, it is fiscally stupid.


So, which is it?

========================

If you applied your 80% rule to your one year old Talon, you'd be out $200 for a year's rental of a brand new bike.

========================

You found your limit, but I doubt you found the bike's limit. A $1,000 2014 hardtail is better than what many racers had 20 years ago, and they were thrilled to have them and race with them. In retrospect, he technology that has trickled down is amazing.



Phinias said:


> It takes a minimum of around $1500-2000 to get a decent HT from your local LBS


Here are three hardtails from some of the biggest players (and available from your LBS) that retail for about $1100 to $1300 that I would call decent at worst:

Trail 3 - TRAIL - TRAIL HARDTAILS - MOUNTAIN - BIKES - 2015

Specialized Bicycle Components

X-Caliber 9 - Trek Bicycle

The forks on entry level bikes have improved quite a bit in recent years. They are light years ahead of those ghastly RST Gila forks from five or so years back and if you find you prefer an air spring over coil, you can upgrade a SR (Suntour) to an air spring fork for $200. The Specialized above already has an air fork.

The Trek is 10 speed, and the other two are 9 speed, and are VERY serviceable for mountain bike riding.

And then you have bikes you can have delivered like the Airborne Seeker ($929 + $75 shipping + $1004) for a bike that comes with a 2x10 drivetrain and RS Recon fork. Toss in another $75 to have your LBS go over it and tune it up and you're still under $1100. These are all bikes that are more than enough to get a noob through at least one if not a couple years of frequent riding.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

This is a difference in approach Jeffj, I find it pointless to spend 1k on a years worth of bike when you can get one that will last much longer and will enable far more growth. As to the differences cheap used bikes go for 50% of thier retail, even lightly used, and top end bikes sell for 80% or more in the same condition. This is often rediculous as the shop sales on new are often better, but that is how it is...


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Phinias said:


> This is a difference in approach Jeffj, I find it pointless to spend 1k on a years worth of bike when you can get one that will last much longer and will enable far more growth. As to the differences cheap used bikes go for 50% of thier retail, even lightly used, and top end bikes sell for 80% or more in the same condition. This is often rediculous as the shop sales on new are often better, but that is how it is...


Just because someone is asking 80% of what they sell for new, doesn't mean they are getting it. It's a bitter pill to swallow when you realize your year old bike loses so much value when you wheel it out the door, but a lot of that instant depreciation is due to the fact that almost no manufacturers extend the warranty past the original purchaser.

In my experience, most new riders do not know what type of bike to get because they do not know what type of riding will suit them best. There are a number of things that factor into this such as:

what type of terrain they will mostly ride
how aggressive they will ride
how often they will ride

They don't even know if they will truly like it. It looks fun and all, but until you get out there and do it for real, you just don't know. And then, when some crash, that kills it for them as they don't wish to further risk injury.

I would suggest that in my experience, a one year old bike will fetch in the neighborhood of about 2/3 of what it originally sold for (unless it was sold for a significant discount in the first place). It doesn't really matter if it's a higher end or lower end bike, or somewhere in between. They may ask for 80% of what they paid, but most will never get that much. There is usually at least some negotiating taking place before dollars are actually exchanged.

A new bike (in a bike shop) that is from the previous model year can usually be had from a shop for a 15% to 25% discount depending on how motivated the shop the shop is to move it. That bike will still have a warranty, and that is worth something.

So, if you took your one year old Talon that originally sold for $1,000, and sold it for $650, that would be a $350 depreciation. If you buy a $3,000 bike and decide you want to sell it, whether or not it's because you don't really like riding afterall, you got injured, or you found that you actually prefer another a different style of bike, whatever, now you will be actually selling that bike for $2,000+/-.

It's generally accepted that when new riders try to buy a niche bike for their first bike, they usually get it wrong. By a little, or a lot, they usually get it wrong. That is because they don't know what they don't know. They may think they know, but it's most often a shot in the dark. There are exceptions to the rule, but those are exceptions, and most people are not the exception.

Even if they go with a friend that is a rider, they are more likely to end up on what their friend prefers, because they simply do not know what they are going to like. They don't know what they don't know.

If someone has money to burn, then they can just do what they want, and it's their choice to spend as they please. Most people are on a budget, and most new riders think it's insane to spend several thousand dollars on a bike. And part of that is also because they don't know what they don't know. I find it more prudent to have them go down $350 on a $1,000 bike bike than to have them go down $1,000 on a $3,000 bike even if there was a slightly better chance that they would stick with the $3,000 bike longer.

I would suggest to you that many more mountain bikes purchased by first time riders end up gathering dust and will still have their original tires in five years than will ever see that rider buying a $3,000 bike in a year or two. And it's not even close. The fact that bike shops sell far more entry level bikes than they do high end bikes supports this. I seriously doubt that the fact that they were on a sub-$1,000 bike vs. a $3,000 bike would make any appreciable difference.

If you're only going to lose $350 toward your second bike, that isn't going to keep you from getting it if you want it. And, if they end up not liking it, they are only out $350, not $1,000 (and remember that far more will drop the sport than will continue with it). So, by the numbers IMHO, it makes more sense to go the entry level bike route for most people.

I know you felt that you $1,000 bike was holding you back almost as soon as you started riding, but I will say that it's far more likely that it was much more your own ability that was the major limiting factor. I know it's not fun to hear that, but if you go back to that bike in a couple years, you will find that there's quite a bit more it will handle than what you currently feel it will.

When they spend that time on their $1,000 hardtail honing their skills, they are also learning about what type of rider they are. Again, remember that most will never progress beyond that first bike because they find that mountain biking just isn't for them. It's hard work, and the descents are not that long for the hard work it takes to be able to enjoy them. It's also downright scary for many people to ride hard and fast., But if they defy the odds, and become of of those relatively rare souls that loves the sport, they also learn what niche of riding they prefer. These days, there are several different categories of riding and bikes that are made to excel at that particular niche.

If you (as a noob) spend $3k on a nice AM rig because it looked like so much fun to shred-the-gnar in those Mountain Dew commercials or even your buddy's Go-Pro videos, and then find out that that stuff looked much easier than it really is, you're going to take a $1,000 hit (after your dental bill gets paid). As a new rider, you probably had no business riding that kind of terrain in the first place.

The odds are that you will have given up the sport altogether (or only ride very occasionally). And if you do defy the odds and continue, the odds are that you will end up preferring a different bike than you got in the first place.

As for having new riders on FS bikes, that's a whole 'nuther discussion. But, I will say that if they only are going to invest $1,000 on a bike to get going, they will generally be better off going with a hardtail because the corners that have to get cut to produce a FS bike that sells for $1,000 will make the rear suspension not worth having.

We don't all have riding buddies like slapheadmofo that could negotiate a good deal (on our behalf) on a sound used rig either. You might get lucky here and there taking a shot in the dark on the used market, but I see a lot of people getting it wrong (more than get it right). I see some that do OK, and a few that nail it, but they are the exceptions rather than the rules.

My conclusion on your advice is that if you (as a noob) happened to defy the odds and you:

1) knew instinctively what type/niche of riding you would end up preferring. . . .

2) will continue riding at all. . . .

3) are able to pick the right bike for the terrain you ride. . . .

4) are able to pick the right bike for your riding style. . . .

5) didn't overpay for what you will be doing with your new bike. . . .

then, you will have have saved yourself some money.

There is definitely more than one way up (and down) the mountain. Just know that the odds of doing so (the way you advise) are not close to being in your favor, and therein lies the risk.

JMHO.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Phinias said:


> This is a difference in approach Jeffj, I find it pointless to spend 1k on a years worth of bike when you can get one that will last much longer and will enable far more growth. As to the differences cheap used bikes go for 50% of thier retail, even lightly used, and top end bikes sell for 80% or more in the same condition. This is often rediculous as the shop sales on new are often better, but that is how it is...


LOL you think high end bikes are selling for 80%


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

jeffj said:


> Just because someone is asking 80% of what they sell for new, doesn't mean they are getting it. It's a bitter pill to swallow when you realize your year old bike loses so much value when you wheel it out the door, but a lot of that instant depreciation is due to the fact that almost no manufacturers extend the warranty past the original purchaser.
> 
> In my experience, most new riders do not know what type of bike to get because they do not know what type of riding will suit them best. There are a number of things that factor into this such as:
> 
> ...


Spot on


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

I'm still riding my first "real" mountain bike I bought like 7 years ago. The only thing I really outgrew was the fork, and that's because it was bouncy and flexy on more technical parts of the trail. Other components were replaced out of vanity or because the other ones broke (OK, so I got the V-Brake version so I could upgrade to better discs later). 

Instead of throwing a bunch of money at the first bike, I'd recommend newbs get a bike with a good frame, a solid fork, and decent wheels and RIDE it. The best part about riding isn't the gear but actually getting out on the trail and learning new things. Get a good bike, develop your skills, then worry about getting the dream bike later.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Fine I will gracefully bow out of this, as I am a noob as was trying to save fellow noobs the mistake I made. I will still say there is more value to researching the local trails via local riders and rental try and ride than saddling yourself with a $1000 disposable, or upgrade money pit. I seem to be the minority opinion on this.


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## asanatheist (Sep 15, 2014)

Phinias said:


> Fine I will gracefully bow out of this, as I am a noob as was trying to save fellow noobs the mistake I made. I will still say there is more value to researching the local trails via local riders and rental try and ride than saddling yourself with a $1000 disposable, or upgrade money pit. I seem to be the minority opinion on this.


It isn't a mistake it's called being practical. 
What makes you think a high end bike will live a 30mph crash any better than a $1,000 bike. Beginners will be more prone to crashes/choosing wrong lines, going off the trail, going over wheel damaging rocks, and more.
Chances are the high end bikes will fair worse, specially when you start talking about XTR and other "weight saving" components.

We're not even gonna bring up different disciplines of MTB.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

I will offer my advice based on the original question. I would say, no....I dont believe there is such a thing as a bike that is too much for a new rider. These are not motorcycles....in fact, a nicer bike should actually be easier to ride.
That said,nthere is such a thing as more bike than you NEED. As you can see from my signature...I have a very pricey bike, as well as a Cannondale that was under $800 brand new. They all have their purpose.
Get as much bike as you can reasonably afford and still have money for accessories, and try to purchase something that is versatile if you will only have one bike.
I recommend a hardtail 29er with front susp as an only bike...you can put 2.35 tires on it and do some serious trail riding. You can throw cross tires on it for more of a commuter light trail with the fork lock out, etc.
As for resale....if you go in to a new bike purchase concerned about resale....dont.
Look at it as a sunken cost....any money you recoup later is a bonus. I typically find old bikes are worth more to keep around for parts or friends that what you can sell them for.
Good luck


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## 70sSanO (Nov 20, 2013)

Phinias said:


> Fine I will gracefully bow out of this, as I am a noob as was trying to save fellow noobs the mistake I made.


In defense of Phinias, there is merit in not spending $1000 on a new bike and getting a Suntour or Rockshox XC fork and then riding tough terrain at speed, especially if you are not a flyweight. Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

I have been and will always be in the better used bike camp, especially for a hardtail. Find a 5-10 year old with as little use as possible, or one in excellent shape with some nice high end upgrades. A 10 yo $2K hardtail for $500 sounds like a great way to go.

I think a big problem is not doing the homework... reading reviews, trying craiglist bikes, getting educated, and most importantly, having patience.

John


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Phinias said:


> Fine I will gracefully bow out of this, as I am a noob as was trying to save fellow noobs the mistake I made. I will still say there is more value to researching the local trails via local riders and rental try and ride than saddling yourself with a $1000 disposable, or upgrade money pit. I seem to be the minority opinion on this.


I think your advice is good as long as someone really thinks they're going to get into it and has a decent idea of what sort of bike is going to work for their local trails and style. Doesn't have to be the 'perfect' bike by any means - every bike has it's different strong and weaker points. But yeah, in general, if you start riding pretty regularly, a better bike right off the bat can end up paying off.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

One of the saving graces of mountain bikes in the 100-140 mm range is that, marketing aside, they're more alike than different. I think people can get too much bike if they get some enormous long-travel beast with a mile-high bottom bracket, but short of that, I think most 140 mm bikes climb well enough for anything but competition and I have plenty of fun and continue to improve at descending (though, for disclosure, not lift-assisted) with 100 mm, which I could "fork" if I wanted to. They're really not as different, without their tires, as we make them when we're explaining to our wives why we need more bikes.

So if someone coming in feels comfortable spending a couple thousand on a bike in this class, my attitude is check the fit and Godspeed. Though the $7000 or whatever the OP proposed a few pages ago seemed a bit much. That's more than my car!  I think unless the person's interest goes somewhere really niche, tires and setup will give the bike pretty good utility. And IME, most niche riders still have a use for a more general-purpose trail riding bike.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> One of the saving graces of mountain bikes in the 100-140 mm range is that, marketing aside, they're more alike than different. I think people can get too much bike if they get some enormous long-travel beast with a mile-high bottom bracket, but short of that, I think most 140 mm bikes climb well enough for anything but competition and I have plenty of fun and continue to improve at descending (though, for disclosure, not lift-assisted) with 100 mm, which I could "fork" if I wanted to. They're really not as different, without their tires, as we make them when we're explaining to our wives why we need more bikes.
> 
> So if someone coming in feels comfortable spending a couple thousand on a bike in this class, my attitude is check the fit and Godspeed. Though the $7000 or whatever the OP proposed a few pages ago seemed a bit much. That's more than my car!  I think unless the person's interest goes somewhere really niche, tires and setup will give the bike pretty good utility. And IME, most niche riders still have a use for a more general-purpose trail riding bike.


Sorry, but I think you're way off the mark here. My 130mm Stumperjumper FSR didn't ride anything like my 100mm Tallboy. Very different.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Are there things you can ride on one but not the other?

I'm not saying they're not different. And I know if I owned two 'A' mountain bikes, I'd set them up with a different emphasis.

What I'm saying is that I think I could take any bike in that swath of classes to any of the areas I ride regularly and ride everything it's in my abilities to ride. And have a good time.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

AndrwSwitch said:


> What I'm saying is that I think I could take any bike in that swath of classes to any of the areas I ride regularly and ride everything it's in my abilities to ride. And have a good time.


I did just this last night - on a nite ride with 3 buddies, we ended up swapping out bikes randomly off and on over the course of the ride. 29, 26, XC HT, whatever the hell kind of HT my bike is, 100mm FS trail, 160mm FS AM...really didn't matter all that much. It never does actually, besides on the internet and to people who either haven't ridden a lot on different bikes, or who aren't very adaptable. Personally, I can go back and forth from a BMX bike to a DH bike and everything in between and have a good time regardless. People get way to finicky about choosing the one 'right' bike when there is actually no such thing.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Are there things you can ride on one but not the other?
> 
> I'm not saying they're not different. And I know if I owned two 'A' mountain bikes, I'd set them up with a different emphasis.
> 
> What I'm saying is that I think I could take any bike in that swath of classes to any of the areas I ride regularly and ride everything it's in my abilities to ride. And have a good time.


Well we'll have to agree to disagree. Yes I could ride the same trails on both bikes, was one a hell of a lot more fun for me and fit my style much better- yes.


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## qclabrat (Aug 16, 2011)

I want to ride like the guy with the $50 steel Nishiki with front spring suspension, who hits all the jumps and is first to the top, with only a 20oz bottle of water he stuck in his pocket. Needless to say, I was a bit embarrassed having a bike which cost much more than his. Almost wanted to give him one of my "lesser" bikes to see what he could do with equipment which wasn't holding him back. Lesson learned, you don't need to top gun bike to be bad a$$ on the trails


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

LOL, I hate that guy!

Several years ago, my first full year in WA and first year racing XC, I was exploring around what has become one of my favorite riding spots. I was climbing a logging road that t turns out to be pretty ridiculous. Steep, and nobody expects anything but logging trucks on it - it's hardened with first-sized quarry spalls.

So this dude comes huffing and puffing past me. On what looks like my same bike. No helmet, running shorts, and he's wearing a backpack. Not a camelbak - something you buy for back-to-school.

I had more to prove at the time, so I didn't let him gap me too much. Not that I could stop him. But I caught up to him again when things level out before the last pitch to the summit. Turned out his bike was the next level down - 2007 Hardrock Sport. He'd put on a bigger, knobbier rear tire and a gel seat cover. Otherwise, it was stock. Down to the pedals, I think.

I think he must have passed me again when the road pitched up. Or maybe I poured on the gas and gapped him. We saw each other again about fifteen minutes later, at the picnic table on the summit. The backpack contained a helmet, a light jacket, and a sandwich. The guy worked as a guide on Mt. Rainier. He was there doing hill repeats on that ridiculous road to stay in shape for dragging tourists up Rainier. And he wasn't going to be descending the singletrack I'd been working so hard to access - too dangerous. So at least I had that.


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## blundar (Jan 18, 2013)

...Like my coach explained to me a long time ago in high school! It is all about the law of diminishing returns.

For example: As a beginner, you can buy a basic tennis racket. You can then upgrade to a $500 tennis racket and it will probably make you a tiny bit better as a player (probably barely noticeable). Then you upgrade to a $10,000 tennis racket and you will probably not even see a difference in your game.

A professional player, can then wring out that bit of extra performance from that super expensive racket because he is already at the top of his game. At his level, that racket could be worth while because of all the other players at that top level are VERY closely matched, so any tiny bit of advantage is worth the huge sums of money in order to get that. 

A $12,000 super bike compared to a good $2,000 bike will not offer hardly any advantage at all for a newbie rider. It probably will not offer much advantage to even an intermediate or even some advanced riders. It could be worth while for a professional racer with great sponsors to get that tiny bit of an advantage compared to the rest of the other top racers on race day. Many top racers will often use a fairly basic bike for training and then just use the super bike for special races only.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

qclabrat said:


> I want to ride like the guy with the $50 steel Nishiki with front spring suspension, who hits all the jumps and is first to the top, with only a 20oz bottle of water he stuck in his pocket.


Where did I put that pic...










It was a ride a few years ago. About 10 of us showed up, riding bikes from my singlespeed HT to 160 mm FS bikes. And there was this guy. Spec of the ride was: I set the course, there'll be some rocks and roots, we are not in a rush, a couple of hours will do.

Can you guess who rode over the pile of rocks where all the rest of us walked about 3 meters?


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## Dragon21 (Aug 10, 2014)

IMO, you should be testing bikes from local shops to see what feels good for you. Many places offer rentals you can take on your local trails. This will give you an idea on FS vs HT, 27.5 vs 29, 100mm vs 160mm suspension, single pivot vs all others... Once you know what you like, then its time to talk budget. 

Once budget comes, and your getting your first bike, id like in the 2500-3000 range. Find a bike that has the frame you like, decent wheels and decent suspension. Everything can be upgraded, you dont need to sell the bike to upgrade. 

People on here are not necessarily the ones to ask if you should buy nice the first time. The people on this forums are riders, they want the nice bikes and appreciate them. The people at home playing xbox because biking wasnt for them aernt speaking up on here.

Rent some bikes for a while, hit some trails, have fun. If you aernt having fun, then dont waste your money. If you are having fun, you should know after riding a few differnt style bikes what you want to spend your money on.

FWIW, I got back into riding at the start of this summer after about 6 years off. Bought a $1000 HT from Performance bike. After riding for a month I realized it wasnt what I wanted. I returned it, test rode some bikes, and saved some money for a $2500 FS that I absolutely love now. (performance bike has a 1 year return policy, i felt bad returning it, but was very happy that was an option)


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

perttime said:


> Where did I put that pic...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes! You know he is legit because he only has a fender on the rear.


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## 70sSanO (Nov 20, 2013)

perttime said:


> Where did I put that pic...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think a lot of it had to do with the additional flexibility he got from the seat tube. This could be the next big thing in mountain biking... Mixte-Niner!

John


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## blundar (Jan 18, 2013)

perttime said:


>


Now that dude is legit old school. Full rigid, canti-brakes, gel seat, looks like a 7 or 8 speed cassette. I loved my modified hybrid bike so much that I still had it and rode it a couple of years ago. But he got me beat with the girl's low top tube frame.

LOL I used to ride over 5" logs.







Here is an old picture of it before I put cyclocross tires on it and got rid of the back rack. I also swapped out the stem to a shorter bmx-style one. Those reflectors all flew off after getting on the first knarly trail. This is the first bike that I learned to MTB with. I did also buy several cheap hardtails after buying this one, but this CroMo steel, 700c bike was so much better.

I'm sad I sold it...

You do not need a $5,000 bike to learn how to mountain bike.


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