# KS LEV - DIY Cartridge Rebuild



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

If you've got a KS LEV that has started sinking, this should fix it. I started this thread quite a while ago and used feedback to improve on it. The process seems to consistently work based on feedback I've received. Just the simple process of recharging the system resolves the issue that results after air and oil mix in the chambers. Even without replacing seals, this seems to resolve the issue for a long time however I recently added the specs for the seals with an exploded view of the post so that you can replace them while you're in there. If you try this, please let me know how it goes. Also let me know if any steps are confusing or if you run into any other issues. I'll use your feedback to improve the thread.

DISCLAIMER: I've done this procedure A LOT. I started on my own LEV, and have since repaired numerous LEVs and Supernaturals. I initially went back into my own LEV multiple times to gain additional photos for this thread. Mine is still running smoothly and I only occasionally go back in to replace seals. I've refined this post to be as clear as possible and the method works great. I've also added some tips from mistakes I've made myself. That being said - ATTEMPT AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Good Luck,
-Chris

***************************************
***ATTENTION: Manufacturer Warning***

I have been contacted by the manufacturer and they have urged me to add this warning to this thread on their behalf:

"The procedure explained by the user in this thread is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and could result in severe injury or death to the person performing this. These warnings are also clearly stated on our website and in our manuals. This posting may cause some consumers to disregard our warnings and severely injure themselves attempting this procedure listed."

"We at KS USA do NOT endorse the servicing of the oil system, it is factory sealed, and not to be opened by the user as the internals are under EXTREME PRESSURE!"

"We offer a 2 year warranty on our products, so if a customer is having an issue, they can send the post in to us and we will REPLACE the cartridge at no charge under warranty. If it is outside of the warranty period, the consumer can purchase a new cartridge assembly thru their local dealer."

Mike A from KS USA

***************************************

I'm starting the procedure after disconnecting the remote cable from the post and removing the post from the bike. If you have trouble with this, consult your owner's manual. Although there is a great instructional video at kssuspension.com to do the first 8 steps, I've included these anyway to demonstrate my technique for Step 5, which is far more difficult than appears in the video. Also pay attention to a warning in Step 7 to prevent damage to your DU Bushing. Alternatively, skip to Step 9 to get right to the cartridge section or to the near end to see the exploded view and links to replacement seals. I've also added a section regarding the Supernatural differences as this procedure works for it as well, with just a few modifications.

Step 1: With your post in the soft jaws of a vice, remove the end cap using a strap wrench to expose the actuator lever. If you have the 2nd Generation Integra, see differences below (towards the end of this thread).









Step 2: Compress the actuator lever to slacken the internal cable. Rotate the end barrel in order to disconnect it from the lever.









Step 3: Gently pull the cable snug and tape it against the outside of the post with electrical tape.









Step 4: Push the post through or carefully pull on the actuator assembly to expose the inner shaft. Then spray clean with alcohol to prepare for the next step.









Step 5: Remove the LEV from the soft jaws, protect the exposed shaft with a portion of rubber inner tube, then place it in the soft jaws and snug it just enough to prevent the shaft from rotating while you loosen the actuator assembly with a wrench. Alternatively, you could use a rubberized soft jaws like this (but I don't tend to have good luck with it):

http://www.amazon.com/Brampton-Tech...416614442&sr=8-1&keywords=golf+club+vice+grip

**THIS STEP MAY BE VERY DIFFICULT DUE TO A STRONG THREAD LOCK ADHESIVE - THE ACTUATOR LEVER IS A SOFT METAL AND CAN BEND EASILY - TAKE CARE NOT TO DAMAGE IT - ** (((EDIT))): LESS TOOLS ARE BETTER HERE IF POSSIBLE - SOME ACTUATORS MAY NOT BE AS DIFFICULT TO REMOVE AS OTHERS - VICRIDER222 RECOMMENDS THIS TECHNIQUE: "You will get as much if not more grip by putting on a clean, tight fitting household latex glove and grabbing the degreased shaft with your hand&#8230;keep your thumb out, place the shaft along the base of your 4 fingers and close them. Squeeze them as tight as you can, then turn the actuator base with your other hand"

Step 5 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

Step 6: Remove the actuator assembly, the rubber bottom-out bumper, and the piston/push rod - **NOTE THAT THERE IS A LONG END AND SHORT END OF THE PUSH ROD - THE LONG END NEEDS TO FACE OUT TOWARD THE ACTUATOR**

























Step 7: Loosen the top collar with a strap wrench, then remove the cartridge assembly from the outer shaft. Be carefull not to lose the 3 copper guide bushings on the cartridge assembly. **WARNING - On the KS video, the shaft is yanked with some force so that the copper guide bushings knock the silver DU Bushing out. This works most of the time however if the DU Bushing is stuck, you may blow the inner coated ring out of the DU Bushing (See pic below). You can avoid this by removing the black top collar, then protecting the stanchion with a towel and grasping the DU Bushing CAREFULLY with channel locks and twisting it back and forth slightly to help loosen it (Pictured below though stanchion is not covered to make it easier to see). If you do blow out the DU Bushing, it's OK. They can be purchased at Universal Cycle









WARNING - avoid this at Step 7









The picture above can be avoided by loosening the DU Bushing using channel locks as pictured below (be sure to protect the stanchion first - (not done here for visability). You just need to twist the DU Bushing slightly in order to make sure it's not seized before giving the firm pull mentioned in Step 7. BE SUPER CAREFUL IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO THIS AS YOU CAN EASILY SCRATCH THE STANCHION - I KEEP SPARE DU BUSHINGS AROUND BECAUSE I PREFER TO REPLACE IF THEY BREAK RATHER THAN RISK SCRATCHING THE POST









Step 8: Remove the 3 copper guide bushings, then slide off the DU bushing, collar, and bottom of the seat clasp

















Step 9: Unscrew the Schrader valve cover and release the pressure from the system using a screwdriver/nail/etc.

















Step 10: **EYE PROTECTION AND POINT AWAY FROM YOUR FACE - SEE MANUFACTURER WARNING ABOVE BEFORE ATTEMPTING** Using snap ring pliers (or better yet, a spanner tool - Park SPA-2), unscrew the cap of the cartridge, lift the cap slightly, and dump out the oil. There may be a loud "pop" of pressure releasing when you loosen the cap.

















Step 11: Flip the cartridge around and use your finger to push the Schrader valve assembly and the other internals through the cartridge as one entity. You may need to use a dowel rod or protected screwdriver to push it all the way through.

























Step 11 b: You can now break the internals down further as pictured below - **WHEN REMOVING THE SLIDING PIECE OF BLACK PLASTIC (INTERNAL FLOATING PISTON - IFP) FROM THE METAL TUBE IT'S ON, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET BACK ON BECAUSE OF A VERY TIGHT SQUARE GASKET ON THE INNER SURFACE - SEE TRICK MENTIONED BELOW TO REINSTALL IFP ONTO TUBE**









**BE CAREFUL REINSTALLING THIS - YOU CAN SEE THE INNER SEAL HERE THAT I DAMAGED TRYING TO GET THIS THING BACK ON THE METAL TUBE** The best technique to get the IFP back on the tube was demonstrated by "chukt" on page 14 of this thread. Simply use a Craftsman 10 mm socket - it has the same outer diameter as the tube. The IFP can easily be slid onto the socket over the rounded edge, then slide the IFP directly off the socket and onto the tube.









Step 12: Next, replace the valve assembly and the metal tube with the IFP on it. You will want the IFP approx. 2-3 mm away from the end opposite to the valve assembly end. You can assemble these and insert them as one entity. The IFP may need to be guided using your finger to keep it from slipping up further as you replace the tube it's on. You can also reinstall the cartridge end cap after this step to help push it down approximately 3 mm.

























Step 13: Add Fork Oil (I use 5 WT) to fill the cartridge at least to the bottom thread (though I go a little farther for good measure).









Step 13 b: Preparation for step 14: When I went back into my own LEV, I noticed that the coated inner rod on the damper assembly was partially unthreaded (you can see a small gap just below the coated shaft on the first picture below - the second picture is after I rethreaded it down tight). This should be checked before step 14 because if it's unthreaded slightly, the actuator push rod within the shaft will not be able to fully reach and activate the dropper. You will need to unthread this anyway if you plan to replace the seal in there.

















Step 14: Insert the push rod (being sure the long end faces out toward the actuator). Then install the push rod cover. This will allow you to open the valve as you insert it into the oil in step 14 b.

















Step 14 b: While depressing the actuator piston to open the valve, insert the damper assembly through the oil and down into the inner metal tube of the cartridge assembly just until the gold coated part is leveled with the top end of the inner tube. Oil should be overflowing as you do this, which should prevent air in the chamber. Tighten the cap using the spanner/snap ring pliers. **USE CAUTION WHEN TIGHTENING THIS AS THE CAP TENDS TO WANT TO CROSS THREAD - ALSO, IF YOU START TO GET RESISTANCE WHILE THREADING, IT HELPS TO TIGHTEN A LITTLE, THEN DEPRESS THE PISTON, TIGHTEN A LITTLE MORE, DEPRESS, AND SO ON**









14b3 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

14b2 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

Step 15: Use a shock pump to add pressure to 150-250 psi. After you've added some air, depress the actuator piston to be sure the post is fully extended before filling to the desired pressure. After you've added air, with the internal shaft fully extended, you can attempt compressing it against your workbench - if it doesn't sag, you've succeeded in eliminating the sag issue.

CSC_0081 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

CSC_0084 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

Step 16 to finish: Simply follow the KS video to finish the reassembly. Here's the video:
KS LEV Service - YouTube

**One problem you may run into is when threading on the post end cap. As advised by the video, you thread it on until the last few threads, then use the remote to activate and compress the post before tightening the last few threads. If the post won't stay in the down position, tighten the end cap a little more and try again before you freak out.

Please let me know how this goes if you try it. Additionally, if there are any really confusing areas or you feel there is some editing I need to do, please let me know.

Also, thanks to everyone for the tips on posting, using Photobucket, and improving my technique.

Good Luck

-Chris

*Additional Useful Information:
If the internal cable is broken, replacement is pretty easy following this video from the KS Website: KS LEV Service - YouTube

Ron Easton used to be pretty good about mailing you replacement parts but it seems things have changed and now they direct you to your local dealer. If you're impatient like me, I've listed ways to have an endless supply of cable and isolator pellets to do this repair. (You can reuse the metal end barrels, but you need to use a lighter to melt the old isolator pellet out of there before passing the new cable through).

1 mm Braided Kevlar Kite String:

Free Shipping 100ft 250lb Braided Kevlar Line for Fishing Camping Kite Flying | eBay

"Isolator Pellets" This is bean bag filler - they're a little big but you can easily snip them down smaller with wire cutters to get the size you need:

Darice Bean Bag Filler Plastic Pellets, 16 oz: Crafts : Walmart.com

If you prefer the actual parts, Art's Cyclery is a great source

Barrel (missing the grub screw which can also be purchased at this site) *Again, you can reuse your originals - just use a lighter to melt out the old isolator pellet:

Kind Shock Lev Barrel Cable Clamp Each

Cable:

Kind Shock Lev Kevlar Link Cable

Another great source for a lot of KS parts:

Universal Cycles -- Kind Shock Seatpost Service Parts

Lastly:

I ran into this issue while examining my buddy's broken LEV. His actuator lever assembly actually busted through the bottom of the post end cap. There is a lip on the actuator assembly that makes contact with a lip inside the end cap and it appears this holds the entire weight of the rider. In the picture here, you'll see the lip is "stripped" on both the actuator and cap (using an allen key in the photo to point it out). When weight is placed on the saddle, the post begins to sink into the cap, eventually breaking the internal cable, then jamming the lever against the bottom of the cap. Once the lever hits the bottom, the post is locked into the activated mode (sinks when weighted, rises when standing). Be sure you examine yours if you dismantle it.

photo 1 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

photo 2 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

LEV EXPLODED VIEW AND SEAL SPECS (LABELED BY MODEL NUMBER):

LEV Seal Specs by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

B70016 -016 B70 (NBR) Buna-N Nitrile 70 Duro O-Ring [B70016] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

N2.00X008 2mm X 8mm Metric Buna-N 70 O-ring [N2.00X008] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

B70009 -009 B70 (NBR) Buna-N Nitrile 70 Duro O-Ring [B70009] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

QR-109 109 Buna-N 70 X-Rings / Quad-Rings [QR-109] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

B90007 -007 B90 (NBR) Buna-N Nitrile 90 Duro O-Ring [B90007] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

N1.00X002 (X2) 1mm X 2mm Metric Buna-N 70 O-ring [N1.00X002] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

QR-113 113 Buna-N 70 X-Rings / Quad-Rings [QR-113] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

QR-114
114 Buna-N 70 X-Rings / Quad-Rings [QR-114] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

MUU-10X15X3 MUU-10X15X3 Urethane Metric U-Seal [MUU-10X15X3] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

N2.00X017 2mm X 17mm Metric Buna-N 70 O-ring [N2.00X017] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

______________________________________________________
_____________LEV INTEGRA DIFFERENCES__________________

If you have the 2nd Generation LEV Integra, the initial steps will be slightly different.

Step 1:

With your post in the soft jaws, use a crescent wrench to unthread the bottom assembly from the black casing as shown below.

IMG_4330 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

Then simply skip to step 4.

_________________________________________________________
_____________SUPERNATURAL DIFFERENCES___________________

This is something I originally posted later on page 1 of this thread. I recently tried to edit it and received a forbidden message for some reason so I'm tacking it on here.

My wife's Supernatural needed a little more work than I anticipated tonight so I took advantage of the opportunity and created an exploded view of the post for comparison to the LEV (note that when you reassemble this post, it's actually better to have the IFP at the opposite end than is pictured below):

View attachment 873238


Of course once I got the thing apart, I realized that these are factory charged and there initially appeared to be no way to recharge the system. Luckily, there were other threads online with people who experienced the same sinking feeling.

There's actually a very small hole within one of the craters on the cartridge end cap - this is the area where snap ring pliers are used to remove the cap:

View attachment 873241


This hole connects through to an even smaller pinhole beneath the lower o-ring on the cartridge cap. I've removed the o-ring in the picture below to reveal the pinhole:

View attachment 873240


Once the cartridge is reassembled and you're ready to add air, you have to get a little creative as some other threads have mentioned. I used a basketball inflater wrapped with electrical tape (there's got to be a better attachment that seals better - let me know if you're familiar with this) and my shock pump. **EDIT - you can actually use the inner plastic tubing from a standard piece of derailleurs cable housing around the inflator tip**

View attachment 873239


Downside is that you can't really get an accurate read on pressure so I just added a little at a time until I got the desired speed of activation. **EDIT - this is not true. You can get an accurate reading. I use the LEV guidelines of 150-250 psi

The other difference over the LEV is that the air chamber is on the opposite end so oil is added a little differently.

When I reassembled this, I pushed the IFP down into the cartridge by itself first, then replaced the middle tube and pressed it down in (luckily it didn't give me problems like the IFP on my LEV). **EDIT - a better way is to keep the IFP on the inner tube and insert them together, then using a thin dowel or other rod, push the IFP down into place**

I then filled that inner tube with 5 wt. oil nearly to the brim, then installed the final inner shaft into the oil (I had to depress the activator lever against my workbench as I installed the inner shaft - only as far as needed to then replace the cartridge end cap)

Next, screwed the end cap on and added air with the terrible taped-up needle tip. Post is working great now so I got lucky. Wasn't exactly a smooth process and took way longer to figure out than I care to admit but it's done now and I figured this may help someone along the way.

Sorry for the rough layout and poor quality photos.

**EDIT - I've since done this on another Supernatural that continues to run flawlessly**

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

*LEV Rotational Play Repair*

If you have a SIGNIFICANT amount of rotational play in your post (nose of saddle rotates left and right), this should resolve it or dramatically reduce it.

There appear to be 4 factors that affect rotational stability in the LEV:

1.	The copper guide bushings - these reside in the grooves in the cartridge/stanchion and slide along the groove tracks inside the black casing
2.	The one way roller bearing - if the post rotates one way slightly in the grooves mentioned above, this bearing prevents it from moving back, thus minimizing rotational play
3.	The grooves inside the black outer casing - I suppose these may get worn and potentially widen over time
4.	The grooves on the stanchion - these can likely get a little sloppy with wear over time and therefore allow a little play.

The first two of these factors can be fairly easily replaced. By doing so, you will greatly reduce any rotational play you may be experiencing.

The following procedure was performed on my wife's LEV after the rotational play increased to the point of feeling the saddle move beneath her while pedaling. As always, attempt this at your own risk. Mine went very smoothly however damage to your post is possible and once you start the procedure, there's no going back until you have finished.

1.	You will need to purchase a new one way roller bearing and 3 copper guide bushings. Be sure to order 3 guide bushings. They are available for a reasonable price here:

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=50728&category=3997

2.	I found it easier to get purchase on the old bearing assembly by first removing the nylon inner portion using a screwdriver. Once you do this, you're stuck and will need to follow through to the end of the procedure before your post is functional again.

IMG_0828 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

3.	Next, place your post upright in a vice with soft jaws and use a downhill tire lever (works great) or large screw driver (risk of marring) to gently work the metal outer ring loose. I did a little at a time and worked my way around slowly until it lifted approximately 2-3 mm.

IMG_0830 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

4.	Next, reposition your downhill tire lever underneath the entire metal ring. The tire lever was perfect for this and really helps prevent damage to the post - keep that in mind. Gently lever the ring out by working your way around it gradually.

IMG_0831 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

5.	Clean the bearing surface and grease it lightly with slick honey or other grease to facilitate pressing the new bearing.

6.	Prepare your new bearing. Pay attention to the orientation of the bearing. The surface that should be facing up (visible after installing) has a slightly more prominent and rounded edge when compared to the underside. The first picture below shows the top - it's easier to see this when you have the bearing in front of you.

IMG_0832 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

IMG_0833 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

7.	Gently position the bearing level in the post so that the grooves (guide bushing paths) are lined with the same grooves in the black casing. I used my stanchion with the copper guide bushings in place to line up the new bearing, and pushed it down gently by hand to get it seated.

IMG_0834 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

IMG_0835 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

8.	Once the bearing is in position, you can get it partially seated by using your hands to push the bearing down into place. Be sure to apply even pressure all the way around so that it goes in straight.

9.	Once you get it evenly seated by hand, you can use a hub bearing press attachment and a rubber mallet to finish the job. I used a Hope Pro II Evo hub bearing press (I can't remember the size) to gently tap it into place.

IMG_0836 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

IMG_0837 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

10.	Reassemble your post as directed. Don't forget your new copper guide bushings.

IMG_0839 by Christopher Kelly, on Flickr

Good luck if you try it and as always, let me know if you have any better suggestions, questions, etc.

-Chris


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

Subscribed!!!


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Excellent work! I've been doing this to my Reverb ever since RS released the videos, but I figured the KS post worked in a similar way. I've been wanting an offset post for awhile now and Rockshox won't make a reverb with an offset. Just curious, do you think the KS dropzone has the same or similar cartridge as the LEV? I would change to that in a heartbeat if I could rebuild a dropzone like you've done here with the LEV.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Don't know for sure. I think the cartridges are supposed to be fairly similar but I have not worked on one. My wife has the Supernatural (very similar to Dropzone) and she hasn't had any sinking issues yet. Since the actuator mechanism is on the top, I imagine there may be some differences in where the oil (or air if any?) goes.

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

cakelly4 said:


> Don't know for sure. I think the cartridges are supposed to be fairly similar but I have not worked on one. My wife has the Supernatural (very similar to Dropzone) and she hasn't had any sinking issues yet. Since the actuator mechanism is on the top, I imagine there may be some differences in where the oil (or air if any?) goes.
> 
> -Chris


Good point. I will say though that the internals of the KS look very similar to the RS Reverb. The parts look a little different, and some parts are longer than others due to differences in the actuation point, but in the end, it is still 3 tubes with 1 tube extending up and down.

I'm curious, did you change any of the o-rings on the inside of this post? If the RS Reverb starts to sag, it is pretty much a guarantee that one of the dynamic o-rings (ones that either move with the extending shaft or have the shaft moving along side the o-ring) has gone bad and needs to be replaced. It is a long procedure and maybe I missed the 'fix' step or didn't realize what was being fixed to prevent sagging.

Lastly, you mentioned other threads/forums that have more discussion on this? Can you direct me where these are?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Laterilus said:


> I'm curious, did you change any of the o-rings on the inside of this post? If the RS Reverb starts to sag, it is pretty much a guarantee that one of the dynamic o-rings (ones that either move with the extending shaft or have the shaft moving along side the o-ring) has gone bad and needs to be replaced. It is a long procedure and maybe I missed the 'fix' step or didn't realize what was being fixed to prevent sagging.
> 
> Lastly, you mentioned other threads/forums that have more discussion on this? Can you direct me where these are?


Good question regarding the seals. So far, the posts that I've fixed have done just great after this rebuild with no replacement of internal seals. Aside from mine, the other two I fixed began to have the problem shortly after purchase and so my theory is that there are some bad cartridges out there that already have a small amount of air in them. Alternatively, there could be a slow leaking seal and maybe my repaired ones will fail again sometime down the road. Another theory that I've read in some of the other threads is that by lifting your bike by the seat (with the post in the partially down position) you are potentially creating negative pressure in the system and sucking air into the oil chamber. This is also why I'm interested in receiving feedback from others who try this. Will be interesting to see if the rebuild effectively fixes the problem long-term, short-term, or not at all for some people.

Here are the other sites that I previously mentioned:

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/ks-lev-dropper-post-sag-873785.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/all-mountain/ks-lev-seatpost-778632.html

So I just decided to edit this post because I found this quote from a thread I started on a local forum:

_Mischief Bruise Quoted:_
"My LEV developed 1" of sag last year during a cold weekend where the highs reached the mid-20's during the day. I called KS and spoke to Ron Easton about it, and he said that colder temps could cause some of the seals to shrink, letting air and oil mix, which was causing that sag. At the time, he said that KS was in the process of re-sourcing those seals from a different manufacturer, so I might recommend getting a new kit from KS when doing this repair."

That thread is located here: Repair Your KS LEV

Hope this info helps

-Chris


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Subscribed -- and many thanks to Chris for taking the time to post the this, saving us the hassle of having to send away the post to KS.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. I hope it helps for others as much as it has for my own LEV.

-Chris


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## 274898 (Nov 29, 2005)

Great step by step. rebuilding adjustable seatposts definitely is time consuming and lots of steps. Especially when you don't rebuild one every day, it is easy to make mistakes. When i rebuild mine, i just hope i don't have extra parts sitting there and be scratching my head saying "where were those parts supposed to installed?"


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

I wish more people did DIY/write-ups like this. I know how to do just about everything by now but it would have been nice along the way.

Would be in for one of these on the Fox DOSS for when mine inevitably starts having issues.

edit: you really put 150-250psi in a LEV? My DOSS asks for something like 15-20psi max and at my return speed preference it's in the <10psi range, so low it won't register on my pump! haha


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Alias530 said:


> edit: you really put 150-250psi in a LEV? My DOSS asks for something like 15-20psi max and at my return speed preference it's in the <10psi range, so low it won't register on my pump! haha


Yup. LEV manual states 150-250. I believe factory setting is at 150psi. I'm guessing the air chamber on the DOSS is much smaller than the LEV's

-Chris

Edit: I mean the DOSS is probably a larger air chamber, hence lower pressure.


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## vicrider222 (May 2, 2011)

cakelly4, that's an awesome step by step, thanks for the effort you've put into it. I was looking for something like this and nearly gave up. I don't need to service the cartridge just yet, but I know one day I'll need these instructions. 

I have an issue maybe you can help with given you've done a few Levs already:

I've just done the basic service on my Lev for the first time based on the KS youtube video, just cleaned everything and re-greased using Slickoleum. 

After reassembly the post is super smooth but I hear loud "breathing" when the post compresses and expands. I can hear air getting sucked in and out through the cable junction under the red KS logo cover where the cable terminates. Initially I wasn't concerned by that, just assumed that it might be because I used a bit more grease than necessary. 

But after the first ride following this service I discovered that the silver bottom from the bottom end cap blew out and was rattling inside my frame! Most likely because during the ride I compressed the seatpost quickly, and air did not have time to escape through the cable junction box so it blew out the bottom. 

The silver bottom is held in place by an o-ring, just like the cable junction cover so there was no permanent damage and I was able to reinstall it. This happened while the red cable junction cover was held in place by an extra thick after market o-ring and this is why I think the silver bottom blew out while the red cover remained in place. 

I have now switched back to the original size o-ring on the red cable junction cover and now when I push the seat post down to test it the red cover gets pushed out by the air pressure. If I don't address it I will probably lose it on the trail. Any idea what is going on? Did you experience this with the posts you serviced?

I thought maybe I wasn't purging the air from the post properly during reassembly. But I don't see how that would matter since the post is able to suck air in through the cable junction box when it expands anyways. I'm at a loss as to how I've "introduced" this issue by the basic "clean and lube" service...

Brings me to the second question:

What is the purpose of compressing the post before the end cap is fully tightened as in the KS service youtube vid? Might it be related to my issue? Note that I did execute this step as per instructions.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

cakelly4 said:


> Good question regarding the seals. So far, the posts that I've fixed have done just great after this rebuild with no replacement of internal seals. Aside from mine, the other two I fixed began to have the problem shortly after purchase and so my theory is that there are some bad cartridges out there that already have a small amount of air in them. Alternatively, there could be a slow leaking seal and maybe my repaired ones will fail again sometime down the road. Another theory that I've read in some of the other threads is that by lifting your bike by the seat (with the post in the partially down position) you are potentially creating negative pressure in the system and sucking air into the oil chamber. This is also why I'm interested in receiving feedback from others who try this. Will be interesting to see if the rebuild effectively fixes the problem long-term, short-term, or not at all for some people.
> 
> Here are the other sites that I previously mentioned:
> 
> ...


Been meaning to reply back to your post. Again, outstanding information and work done here. It's stuff like this that keeps me coming back to MTBr even though the vast majority of the posts on these forums are junk. Good to know there is still worthwhile posts out there.

Ok, enough gushing; I've re-read your procedure many times over now as it is obviously full of details. I'm a like-minded person and would prefer to sweat all the details.  
It is so interesting to me that the designs of both the LEV and Reverb are almost identical, but with subtle differences. One of the main things I noticed was the use of quad seals (I believe you referred to them as 'square gaskets', cakelly4). This was a mistake on SRAM's part. All the internal seals are the typical round seals. I have since replaced all the dynamic seals in my Reverb with quad seals. It made a lot more sense to me to get double the sealing contact for any of the seals that have to move.

The IFP for the LEV is pretty much identical to the Reverb. Yes, those seals are a ***** to get back in, but it can be done with some patience. I squeeze them together to make a little 'taco'. Place your pinky finger or a wooden dowel on the other end just below the recessed area where the o-ring will seat. Once I get one end of the taco in, I'll wedge the rest of the o-ring in the IFP so that it won't pop out, then slowly move the dowel around the recessed area while using my fingers from the opposite end. It's not easy, but it works and you can do this without damaging them if you take your time.

Also, speaking of the o-rings durability, I too am very curious about the run time both you and your friends get from your posts since you did not change any of the o-rings. My experience with the Reverb is that one of the dynamic o-rings has blown if the sagging starts. I like your method of checking for proper operation prior to completely rebuilding the post. I came to the same conclusion with the Reverb. I would like to add something though, after checking to see if the posts sags on your work bench, jiggle the skinny shaft around a bit. If air or oil starts to spray out, the o-ring is blown. Sure, that inner shaft won't jiggle during normal operation, but a good o-ring will still hold that seal with a little bit of side to side movement. I'm sure Kind Shock is like the rest of the manufacturers out there and uses Buna-N o-rings so it shouldn't be difficult to measure them and get replacements. I go to theoringstore.com to get o-rings for my Reverb and forks. Super cheap, and they have quad rings. Comparing to the Reverb, my guess is that the o-rings that tend to go bad are the ones on the two silver end caps, and definitely the quad ring on the skinny inner shaft (the one surrounded by the two teflon glide rings). In addition, I'm assuming the silver end cap you removed using a snap-ring pliers also has an o-ring on the inside of it to seal it around the skinny shaft? That one goes bad on the Reverb as well.

Your bleed procedure is brilliant. One of my main problems with the Reverb is the bleed procedure (for the internal portion of the post, not the remote). The more I looked at your bleed procedure, the more I realized that you are bleeding the LEV upside-down from the way that SRAM has instructed to bleed the post. No matter what I do, I always have 1-1.5mm of sag after a fresh bleed. I don't really notice it on the trail, but it is still annoying and I would like to get ALL the air out of the system. Whenever I get around to bleeding my Reverb again, I'm going to do it upside down using the same procedure you have listed here. The Reverb clamp head actually unscrews from the telescoping post part which would allow for an upside down bleed.

Lastly, I've been looking for a replacement for awhile for my Reverb. Not that the post is bad, I like it a lot, but I wanted the option of an offset seatpost. I fit better on those posts, but I didn't want a mechanical dropper like the Specialized blacklite. I was really considering the KS Dropzone, but there weren't any instructions on how to rebuild them.... that's what has kept me with the Reverb. Now that I've seen your procedure, I'm assuming the general design of the Dropzone will be similar and I'll be able to rebuild that one as well. So, I now have a dropzone in the mail on its way! I'll add to your thread here with a Dropzone re-build next winter (or the first time it starts to sag).


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

vicrider222,

I definitely have experienced the "breathing" sound after servicing the post as you mentioned and would agree that it seems to be more notable when I've gotten a little carried away with the slick honey. I do think a thin smattering is more ideal. That being said, I've never seen the bottom blown out by air pressure alone. I DID however see the bottom blown out of a buddy's LEV where the actuator assembly lip stripped through the end cap lip and busted out the bottom (photos of this are in the above step-by-step) - this is the only reason I knew what you were referring to.

As for the junction box cover, part of your problem may be a worn out barbed ferrule at the junction - the lip is actually designed to mate with an indent in the junction box lid to help keep it in place and to keep the cable aligned properly. The other possibility is that your cover is upside down (with the indent up instead of toward the ferrule). You can buy a new ferrule here: Kind Shock Lev Cable Housing Ferrule Each or ask Ron @ KS to send you one. I've spoken with Ron Easton not too long ago and he mentioned that there is potential for an alloy ferrule to be available soon - thus the barb would be more durable.

The final step in the KS video is designed to prevent an excess bolus of air between the body and the cartridge. I think this step is only to keep a fairly neutral pressure as it seems impossible to keep any air from entering/exiting during operation.

My thoughts would be to go in and lighten up the amount of grease, check your ferrule and junction cover placement, and try again. Also, is Slickoleum thin like Slick Honey, or thicker? Thin definitely seems better for this.

Good luck. Let me know if this was helpful and how it goes. I'm always curious how these issues pan out.

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Laterilus,

Thanks for the positive praise. Psyched that this thread is helping others even a little. I am a little worried about my IFP after finally getting it back on. I did end up doing pretty much what you explained above to finally get it however I managed to shear a little rubber in the attempts before that. I will definitely keep this post updated as I get more miles on my post and as my buddies do the same. One guy unfortunately doesn't get to ride as often so it may be a while to get better feed back. So far he reports the post as being "sac-slapping fast" though, so that's a plus. The other guy has the LEV that had the stripped actuator so we're currently waiting on replacement parts. So far, the only one I can speak for is mine which has been problem free for miles after the first rebuild. I've since rebuilt it 2 or 3 times just to get more photos for this thread however. So I'm sort of resetting the longevity clock on that one (and with a slightly damaged inner seal on the IFP now - whoops). Definitely going to check out the o-ring website you referenced. And I agree that the quad seals just make more sense for the internals - weird that SRAM doesn't do that. I do wish there was a seal kit for the LEV similar to rear shock air sleeve maintenance kits. That would be the simplest way to maintain them longterm.

Good luck with the drop zone. My wife has the Supernatural and although it's a sweet post, my biggest gripes are the cable connection at the saddle and the external activator arm and cable getting gunked up frequently - her post is being serviced by me as soon as I leave this thread as a matter of fact. It just doesn't do well in excessively wet and/or muddy conditions. I'll soon be creating an under the seat mud guard for hers.

- Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

*Supernatural/Dropzone Slightly Different Internals*

If you've got a KS LEV that has started sinking, this should fix it. I started this thread quite a while ago and used feedback to improve on it. The process seems to consistently work based on feedback I've received. Just the simple process of recharging the system resolves the issue that results after air and oil mix in the chambers. Even without replacing seals, this seems to resolve the issue for a long time however I recently added the specs for the seals with an exploded view of the post so that you can replace them while you're in there. If you try this, please let me know how it goes. Also let me know if any steps are confusing or if you run into any other issues. I'll use your feedback to improve the thread. ***If all of this blows your mind, I've also performed this service including seal replacement for $50 plus shipping (with additional fees if any other parts need to be replaced) - PM me if this is a route you'd prefer to take***

DISCLAIMER: I've done this procedure A LOT. I started on my own LEV, and have since repaired numerous LEVs and Supernaturals. I initially went back into my own LEV multiple times to gain additional photos for this thread. Mine is still running smoothly and I only occasionally go back in to replace seals. I've refined this post to be as clear as possible and the method works great. I've also added some tips from mistakes I've made myself. That being said - ATTEMPT AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Good Luck,
-Chris

***************************************
***ATTENTION: Manufacturer Warning***

I have been contacted by the manufacturer and they have urged me to add this warning to this thread on their behalf:

"The procedure explained by the user in this thread is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and could result in severe injury or death to the person performing this. These warnings are also clearly stated on our website and in our manuals. This posting may cause some consumers to disregard our warnings and severely injure themselves attempting this procedure listed."

"We at KS USA do NOT endorse the servicing of the oil system, it is factory sealed, and not to be opened by the user as the internals are under EXTREME PRESSURE!"

"We offer a 2 year warranty on our products, so if a customer is having an issue, they can send the post in to us and we will REPLACE the cartridge at no charge under warranty. If it is outside of the warranty period, the consumer can purchase a new cartridge assembly thru their local dealer."

Mike A from KS USA

***************************************

I'm starting the procedure after disconnecting the remote cable from the post and removing the post from the bike. If you have trouble with this, consult your owner's manual. Although there is a great instructional video at kssuspension.com to do the first 8 steps, I've included these anyway to demonstrate my technique for Step 5, which is far more difficult than appears in the video. Also pay attention to a warning in Step 7 to prevent damage to your DU Bushing. Alternatively, skip to Step 9 to get right to the cartridge section or to the near end to see the exploded view and links to replacement seals. I've also added a section regarding the Supernatural differences as this procedure works for it as well, with just a few modifications.

Step 1: With your post in the soft jaws of a vice, remove the end cap using a strap wrench to expose the actuator lever. If you have the 2nd Generation Integra, see differences below (towards the end of this thread).

LEV Service Pics - Album on Imgur

Step 2: Compress the actuator lever to slacken the internal cable. Rotate the end barrel in order to disconnect it from the lever.



Step 3: Gently pull the cable snug and tape it against the outside of the post with electrical tape.



Step 4: Push the post through or carefully pull on the actuator assembly to expose the inner shaft. Then spray clean with alcohol to prepare for the next step.



Step 5: Remove the LEV from the soft jaws, protect the exposed shaft with a portion of rubber inner tube, then place it in the soft jaws and snug it just enough to prevent the shaft from rotating while you loosen the actuator assembly with a wrench. Alternatively, you could use a rubberized soft jaws like this (but I don't tend to have good luck with it):

https://www.amazon.com/Brampton-Tec...416614442&sr=8-1&keywords=golf+club+vice+grip

**THIS STEP MAY BE VERY DIFFICULT DUE TO A STRONG THREAD LOCK ADHESIVE - THE ACTUATOR LEVER IS A SOFT METAL AND CAN BEND EASILY - TAKE CARE NOT TO DAMAGE IT - ** (((EDIT))): LESS TOOLS ARE BETTER HERE IF POSSIBLE - SOME ACTUATORS MAY NOT BE AS DIFFICULT TO REMOVE AS OTHERS - VICRIDER222 RECOMMENDS THIS TECHNIQUE: "You will get as much if not more grip by putting on a clean, tight fitting household latex glove and grabbing the degreased shaft with your hand&#8230;keep your thumb out, place the shaft along the base of your 4 fingers and close them. Squeeze them as tight as you can, then turn the actuator base with your other hand"



Step 6: Remove the actuator assembly, the rubber bottom-out bumper, and the piston/push rod - **NOTE THAT THERE IS A LONG END AND SHORT END OF THE PUSH ROD - THE LONG END NEEDS TO FACE OUT TOWARD THE ACTUATOR**







Step 7: Loosen the top collar with a strap wrench, then remove the cartridge assembly from the outer shaft. Be carefull not to lose the 3 copper guide bushings on the cartridge assembly. **WARNING - On the KS video, the shaft is yanked with some force so that the copper guide bushings knock the silver DU Bushing out. This works most of the time however if the DU Bushing is stuck, you may blow the inner coated ring out of the DU Bushing (See pic below). You can avoid this buy removing the black top collar, then protecting the stachion with a towel and grasping the DU Bushing CAREFULLY with channel locks and twisting it back and forth slightly to help loosen it (Pictured below though stanchion is not covered to make it easier to see). If you do blow out the DU Bushing, it's OK. They can be purchased at Universal Cycle





WARNING - avoid this at Step 7



The picture above can be avoided by loosening the DU Bushing using channel locks as pictured below (be sure to protect the stanchion first - (not done here for visability). You just need to twist the DU Bushing slightly in order to make sure it's not seized before giving the firm pull mentioned in Step 7. BE SUPER CAREFUL IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO THIS AS YOU CAN EASILY SCRATCH THE STANCHION - I KEEP SPARE DU BUSHINGS AROUND BECAUSE I PREFER TO REPLACE IF THEY BREAK RATHER THAN RISK SCRATCHING THE POST



Step 8: Remove the 3 copper guide bushings, then slide off the DU bushing, collar, and bottom of the seat clasp





Step 9: Unscrew the Schrader valve cover and release the pressure from the system using a screwdriver/nail/etc.





Step 10: **EYE PROTECTION AND POINT AWAY FROM YOUR FACE - SEE MANUFACTURER WARNING ABOVE BEFORE ATTEMPTING** Using snap ring pliers (or better yet, a spanner tool - Park SPA-2), unscrew the cap of the cartridge, lift the cap slightly, and dump out the oil. There may be a loud "pop" of pressure releasing when you loosen the cap.





Step 11: Flip the cartridge around and use your finger to push the Schrader valve assembly and the other internals through the cartridge as one entity. You may need to use a dowel rod or protected screwdriver to push it all the way through.







Step 11 b: You can now break the internals down further as pictured below - **WHEN REMOVING THE SLIDING PIECE OF BLACK PLASTIC (INTERNAL FLOATING PISTON - IFP) FROM THE METAL TUBE IT'S ON, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET BACK ON BECAUSE OF A VERY TIGHT SQUARE GASKET ON THE INNER SURFACE - SEE TRICK MENTIONED BELOW TO REINSTALL IFP ONTO TUBE**



**BE CAREFUL REINSTALLING THIS - YOU CAN SEE THE INNER SEAL HERE THAT I DAMAGED TRYING TO GET THIS THING BACK ON THE METAL TUBE** The best technique to get the IFP back on the tube was demonstrated by "chukt" on page 14 of this thread. Simply use a Craftsman 10 mm socket - it has the same outer diameter as the tube. The IFP can easily be slid onto the socket over the rounded edge, then slide the IFP directly off the socket and onto the tube.



Step 12: Next, replace the valve assembly and the metal tube with the IFP on it. You will want the IFP approx. 2-3 mm away from the end opposite to the valve assembly end. You can assemble these and insert them as one entity. The IFP may need to be guided using your finger to keep it from slipping up further as you replace the tube it's on. You can also reinstall the cartridge end cap after this step to help push it down approximately 3 mm.







Step 13: Add Fork Oil (I use 5 WT) to fill the cartridge at least to the bottom thread (though I go a little farther for good measure).



Step 13 b: Preparation for step 14: When I went back into my own LEV, I noticed that the coated inner rod on the damper assembly was partially unthreaded (you can see a small gap just below the coated shaft on the first picture below - the second picture is after I rethreaded it down tight). This should be checked before step 14 because if it's unthreaded slightly, the actuator push rod within the shaft will not be able to fully reach and activate the dropper. You will need to unthread this anyway if you plan to replace the seal in there.





Step 14: Insert the push rod (being sure the long end faces out toward the actuator). Then install the push rod cover. This will allow you to open the valve as you insert it into the oil in step 14 b.





Step 14 b: While depressing the actuator piston to open the valve, insert the damper assembly through the oil and down into the inner metal tube of the cartridge assembly just until the gold coated part is leveled with the top end of the inner tube. Oil should be overflowing as you do this, which should prevent air in the chamber. Tighten the cap using the spanner/snap ring pliers. **USE CAUTION WHEN TIGHTENING THIS AS THE CAP TENDS TO WANT TO CROSS THREAD - ALSO, IF YOU START TO GET RESISTANCE WHILE THREADING, IT HELPS TO TIGHTEN A LITTLE, THEN DEPRESS THE PISTON, TIGHTEN A LITTLE MORE, DEPRESS, AND SO ON**







Step 15: Use a shock pump to add pressure to 150-250 psi. After you've added some air, depress the actuator piston to be sure the post is fully extended before filling to the desired pressure. After you've added air, with the internal shaft fully extended, you can attempt compressing it against your workbench - if it doesn't sag, you've succeeded in eliminating the sag issue.




Step 16 to finish: Simply follow the KS video to finish the reassembly. Here's the video:
KS LEV Service - YouTube

**One problem you may run into is when threading on the post end cap. As advised by the video, you thread it on until the last few threads, then use the remote to activate and compress the post before tightening the last few threads. If the post won't stay in the down position, tighten the end cap a little more and try again before you freak out.

Please let me know how this goes if you try it. Additionally, if there are any really confusing areas or you feel there is some editing I need to do, please let me know.

Also, thanks to everyone for the tips on posting, using Photobucket, and improving my technique.

Good Luck

-Chris

*Additional Useful Information:
If the internal cable is broken, replacement is pretty easy following this video from the KS Website: KS LEV Service - YouTube

Ron Easton used to be pretty good about mailing you replacement parts but it seems things have changed and now they direct you to your local dealer. If you're impatient like me, I've listed ways to have an endless supply of cable and isolator pellets to do this repair. (You can reuse the metal end barrels, but you need to use a lighter to melt the old isolator pellet out of there before passing the new cable through).

1 mm Braided Kevlar Kite String:

Free Shipping 100ft 250lb Braided Kevlar Line for Fishing Camping Kite Flying | eBay

"Isolator Pellets" This is bean bag filler - they're a little big but you can easily snip them down smaller with wire cutters to get the size you need:

Darice Bean Bag Filler Plastic Pellets, 16 oz: Crafts : Walmart.com

If you prefer the actual parts, Art's Cyclery is a great source

Barrel (missing the grub screw which can also be purchased at this site) *Again, you can reuse your originals - just use a lighter to melt out the old isolator pellet:

Kind Shock Lev Barrel Cable Clamp Each

Cable:

Kind Shock Lev Kevlar Link Cable

Another great source for a lot of KS parts:

Universal Cycles -- Kind Shock Seatpost Service Parts

Lastly:

I ran into this issue while examining my buddy's broken LEV. His actuator lever assembly actually busted through the bottom of the post end cap. There is a lip on the actuator assembly that makes contact with a lip inside the end cap and it appears this holds the entire weight of the rider. In the picture here, you'll see the lip is "stripped" on both the actuator and cap (using an allen key in the photo to point it out). When weight is placed on the saddle, the post begins to sink into the cap, eventually breaking the internal cable, then jamming the lever against the bottom of the cap. Once the lever hits the bottom, the post is locked into the activated mode (sinks when weighted, rises when standing). Be sure you examine yours if you dismantle it.





LEV EXPLODED VIEW AND SEAL SPECS (LABELED BY MODEL NUMBER):



B70016 -016 B70 (NBR) Buna-N Nitrile 70 Duro O-Ring [B70016] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

N2.00X008 2mm X 8mm Metric Buna-N 70 O-ring [N2.00X008] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

B70009 -009 B70 (NBR) Buna-N Nitrile 70 Duro O-Ring [B70009] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

QR-109 109 Buna-N 70 X-Rings / Quad-Rings [QR-109] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

B90007 -007 B90 (NBR) Buna-N Nitrile 90 Duro O-Ring [B90007] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

N1.00X002 (X2) 1mm X 2mm Metric Buna-N 70 O-ring [N1.00X002] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

QR-113 113 Buna-N 70 X-Rings / Quad-Rings [QR-113] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

QR-114
114 Buna-N 70 X-Rings / Quad-Rings [QR-114] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

MUU-10X15X3 MUU-10X15X3 Urethane Metric U-Seal [MUU-10X15X3] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

N2.00X017 2mm X 17mm Metric Buna-N 70 O-ring [N2.00X017] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

______________________________________________________
_____________LEV INTEGRA DIFFERENCES__________________

If you have the 2nd Generation LEV Integra, the initial steps will be slightly different.

Step 1:

With your post in the soft jaws, use a crescent wrench to unthread the bottom assembly from the black casing as shown below.


Then simply skip to step 4.

_________________________________________________________
_____________SUPERNATURAL DIFFERENCES___________________

This is something I originally posted later on page 1 of this thread. I recently tried to edit it and received a forbidden message for some reason so I'm tacking it on here.

My wife's Supernatural needed a little more work than I anticipated tonight so I took advantage of the opportunity and created an exploded view of the post for comparison to the LEV (note that when you reassemble this post, it's actually better to have the IFP at the opposite end than is pictured below):









Of course once I got the thing apart, I realized that these are factory charged and there initially appeared to be no way to recharge the system. Luckily, there were other threads online with people who experienced the same sinking feeling.

There's actually a very small hole within one of the craters on the cartridge end cap - this is the area where snap ring pliers are used to remove the cap:









This hole connects through to an even smaller pinhole beneath the lower o-ring on the cartridge cap. I've removed the o-ring in the picture below to reveal the pinhole:









Once the cartridge is reassembled and you're ready to add air, you have to get a little creative as some other threads have mentioned. I used a basketball inflater wrapped with electrical tape (there's got to be a better attachment that seals better - let me know if you're familiar with this) and my shock pump. **EDIT - you can actually use the inner plastic tubing from a standard piece of derailleurs cable housing around the inflator tip**









Downside is that you can't really get an accurate read on pressure so I just added a little at a time until I got the desired speed of activation. **EDIT - this is not true. You can get an accurate reading. I use the LEV guidelines of 150-250 psi

The other difference over the LEV is that the air chamber is on the opposite end so oil is added a little differently.

When I reassembled this, I pushed the IFP down into the cartridge by itself first, then replaced the middle tube and pressed it down in (luckily it didn't give me problems like the IFP on my LEV). **EDIT - a better way is to keep the IFP on the inner tube and insert them together, then using a thin dowel or other rod, push the IFP down into place**

I then filled that inner tube with 5 wt. oil nearly to the brim, then installed the final inner shaft into the oil (I had to depress the activator lever against my workbench as I installed the inner shaft - only as far as needed to then replace the cartridge end cap)

Next, screwed the end cap on and added air with the terrible taped-up needle tip. Post is working great now so I got lucky. Wasn't exactly a smooth process and took way longer to figure out than I care to admit but it's done now and I figured this may help someone along the way.

Sorry for the rough layout and poor quality photos.

**EDIT - I've since done this on another Supernatural that continues to run flawlessly**

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Once again Chris, nice work. Looks like that is what I'm going to have to deal with when my Dropzone arrives as the only thing different between the supernatural and dropzone is the clamp.

First of all, I'm confused as to why this small port is needed to add air. What is the matter with the normal schraeder valve for adding air? Isn't that what you did with the LEV? I think I'm missing something here. I know with the Reverb you add air to the normal schraeder valve once you are finished charging it with oil.

If the small port needs to be used, you could try using some sort or wax or rubber plug. It would be similar to a Fox rear shock when you have to charge the N2 chamber under the IFP. They don't have a schraeder core on their rear shocks, they use a rubber plug. That would produce the seal you want, then you stick the needle through that. It should seal back up as you remove the needle..... or at least that is what I will try when I have to do my post.

It doesn't surprise me that your procedure is a little upside down from the LEV since the valve has switched sides between the two posts.

Yes, I agree about the actuation lever on the Supernatural/Dropzone. It isn't ideal where it is located, but in my opinion, hydraulic is the way to go and I needed an offset post. The only way a mechanical post works for me is if I know the trail perfectly. That way I can set up my post where I want it well ahead of time before I actually need it. The hydraulic posts allow you to drop it whenever, where ever, and you don't have to slam it all the way down for it to be out of your way. I hate trying to 'find' the click in spots. Sometimes I only have time to drop my post 2 inches. That is still better than none at all if I'm coming up to a really chunky spot I didn't know was coming and my speed is a little more than what I wanted going into the section.

Thankfully, I don't ride in muddy areas so this probably won't affect me much. However, doesn't KS already make a mud boot for the supernatural? Isn't it this part?
Supernatural Mud Boot ? KS | Get Down and Dirty


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Laterilus,

Yeah, that mud boot is on hers but they still tend to get a little gunked up. In fact, I'm convinced that the boot also funnels water and grime down into the cable housing. Mostly a problem in very wet/muddy conditions though.

Now for the bad news: There is no Schraeder valve on the Supernatural (and probably the same for the Dropzone). This is likely due, at least partially, to the reversed chambers which leave no room for a Schraeder valve on the air side of the cartridge.

-Chris


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## rox (Aug 30, 2008)

great post, thanks for the detailed pics. I just finished a relube of my lev which is basically this procedure but leaving the oil cartridge sealed. I used silkolene pro-rg2 grease as I have had a bad experience using slickoleum in the past. in warm temps it gets too thin and runs down to the bottom bracket. hopefully this is not too thick or sticky for the lev.

do you know the size or have a supplier for the o-ring that holds the cable attachment cover on? It appears to be 1/32 width 3/4 ID but I cant find anywhere to order this.

also when disassembling the post how do you pop out the upper bushing without damaging it? for me, the rounded ends of the 3 brass rods were not kind the lower edge of this bushing.


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## rox (Aug 30, 2008)

I take it back about the o-ring. metric 1x19mm makes more sense. still interested to see if anyone knows for sure


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

rox said:


> great post, thanks for the detailed pics. I just finished a relube of my lev which is basically this procedure but leaving the oil cartridge sealed. I used silkolene pro-rg2 grease as I have had a bad experience using slickoleum in the past. in warm temps it gets too thin and runs down to the bottom bracket. hopefully this is not too thick or sticky for the lev.
> 
> do you know the size or have a supplier for the o-ring that holds the cable attachment cover on? It appears to be 1/32 width 3/4 ID but I cant find anywhere to order this.
> 
> also when disassembling the post how do you pop out the upper bushing without damaging it? for me, the rounded ends of the 3 brass rods were not kind the lower edge of this bushing.


Not sure what o-ring size. I actually need to do this to mine soon and plan to bring it to the hardware store to find a similar match.

As for the DU bushing, that's tricky. I definitely ended up with some indents as well. Not sure there's a great way to avoid this. Maybe try gently extending the post until you can feel the guide bushings make contact with the DU bushing, then pull with steady pressure until the bushing pops out of the post body - may be slightly better than pulling hard and slamming them into it. I think the most important part of that Bushing is the inner teflon coated portion. I've gotten a few scratches on that just removing it from the cartridge as it runs over the guide bushing grooves - my recommendation there is to only remove the DU bushing if absolutely necessary to protect the inner surface. Also, Ron Easton was nice enough to mail me a new one when I called and asked.

Have you tried Slick Honey for the grease? In the Supernatural service video found on the KS website, they mention Slick Honey as being a similar alternative to the KS Post Paste. I use a thin smattering of that and it keeps the post buttery smooth.

-Chris


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## rox (Aug 30, 2008)

slick honey is just the marketing (and marked up) name for englund slickoleum. I ordered a pack of 50 1x19mm orings. can send you some if needed and if they turn out to be the right size.

you have much better luck with ron than I do. I bent the upper plate of the seat clamp in a crash and have been trying to get a replacement forever.


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## vicrider222 (May 2, 2011)

rox said:


> I take it back about the o-ring. metric 1x19mm makes more sense. still interested to see if anyone knows for sure


I believe the cable junction cover o-ring size is ID=20mm by 1mm. I've tried both 20mm and 19mm and the 20mm comes closer to the original when compared side by side.

The circumference of the o-ring channel on the cover is around 66.5mm. The internal circumference of the 20mm o-ring is 62.8mm. 59.7mm for the 19mm.

I've recently obtained an obscene quantity of the 20mm X 1mm for cheap. Also happy to post a few to anyone who makes a decent contribution to this thread. Till I run out  Just PM me your delivery address.


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## vicrider222 (May 2, 2011)

cakelly4 said:


> I definitely have experienced the "breathing" sound after servicing the post as you mentioned and would agree that it seems to be more notable when I've gotten a little carried away with the slick honey. I do think a thin smattering is more ideal. That being said, I've never seen the bottom blown out by air pressure alone....


Thanks for the tips Chris. The red cover was the right way up but I did not push the ferrule all the way up to lock it. The ferrule is new, just replaced one I accidentally cut with the cable...

I'm pretty sure the silver bottom blew out because of air pressure. If it was from the actuator base slipping past the end cap lip I would have felt it. But I just heard a pop, thought "that's a strange drive train sound" and kept riding...

I've repeated the basic service again, this time paying attention to the amount of grease used. To be honest I don't think it made much of a difference to how much grease ended up inside the mast. The stanchion is 25mm in diameter, while the internal diameter of the black mast is around 25.15mm. So even a light cover of grease is bound to fill the gaps almost completely. The "breathing" is still there (through the gaps around the cable ferrule) but it sounds a bit lighter. The red cover would still try to move out a bit so I put a bit of tape around it and went for a ride. The silver bottom stayed in place this time. I think after a couple more rides when the grease "settles" I won't need the tape on the red cover either.

To be honest I'm not surprised there is pressure build up and loud breathing occurring during operation. It's basic physics. But I'm REALLY PUZZLED why it wasn't there before my first service!

As rox said Slickoleum and Slick Honey are the same thing. I have both at home. They look, feel, smell and taste the same.

I'm in Australia, temperatures have been between 30C and 40C and beyond for the past couple of months (86F - 104F) but the grease has not dripped to the bottom of the end cap yet. The local KS distributor/service centre themselves recommended Slickoleum.



cakelly4 said:


> Step 5: Using a portion of strap wrench or thick rubber, firmly grasp the inner shaft with channel locks and use an open-end wrench/crescent wrench to loosen the actuator assembly.


When I serviced my post I did not use a strap wrench. You will get as much if not more grip by putting on a clean tight fitting household latex glove and grabbing the degreased shaft with your hand. To avoid frustration do not try to grab it like a ski pole, it's too short to accommodate your thumb. Keep the thumb out, place the shaft along the base of your 4 fingers and close them. Squeeze them as tight as you can then turn the actuator base with your other hand.

You'll also find that there is no need to use a wrench to turn the actuator. Just use your other hand which you'll find is capable of producing sufficient torque to eventually twist the shaft out of the grip of your fingers. Tightening it beyond this point is pointless. This is one of those threaded couplings where once the two parts meet and bottom out on each other they won't turn any further. This is why they use thread lock. I cleaned out the original white stuff and used the blue wax based Loctite 248. Just make sure the threads are totally free of slick honey when you apply the threadlock. When I went to do the service the second time I used the glove method with a cheap adjustable wrench on the actuator to break the bond.

I also use the glove on the end cap and the top collar. Just watch the torque because it works so well you might overdo it and damage the threads.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Vicrider222,

I agree that you probably just had air pressure pop yours out (although that's still pretty crazy). You would know if your actuator busted through the post - it becomes unrideable. **Speaking of this, KS is finally sending a replacement actuator for my buddy so we can finish fixing his post and Ron mentioned to him that parts like this and others should soon become available through retailers**

As far as the breathing sound, I agree that it seems more notable right after a service compared to when the post is new. I think any amount of grease just makes it more audible when air passes in and out (like having a snotty nose - typically louder when breathing than a non-snotty nose). I can appreciate a similar sound in the KS video so I consider it to be normal.

Thanks for the info on the technique with the latex glove. I definitely noticed some variation on the 3 posts I worked on. One of them required almost no force at all to remove it despite the fact that it had never previously been serviced. Meanwhile, the other 2 were miserable and I tried everything (including an inner tube) before I progressed to the channel locks, vice grips, and brut force - in that case the thick rubber was more to prevent me from marring that inner shaft. I agree that it would be best however to start with minimal tools to avoid damaging that shaft. When I replaced the actuators, I didn't use any thread lock and pretty much just hand tightened them snugly. I'll go back and edit that step with your recommendations.

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Ok, so I got my Dropzone in the mail last night. This is my first piece of KS equipment. I'm definitely pleased with the construction, especially considering the price is much lower than the other top of the line models available from all the manufacturers right now. I'm not a weight weenie, but I like to weigh things just for kicks, so I compared my Reverb (380mm post, 30.9, 125mm drop) to my new KS Dropzone (380mm post, 30.9 clamp, 125mm drop).








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I was actually surprised the KS was considerably more weight. Still not nearly in the range that would bother me, though. If it were over a half-pound difference, then I would think KS needs to do some work.

Even though I was prepared by Cakelly4's previous post on his Supernatural, I decided to get the dropzone anyway since I so desperately needed an off-set post. It seems so very odd to me that KS would design the Supernatural series this way. I understand manufacturers not wanting the customer to work on the cartridge (although, it really isn't that much different from a shock or fork and manufacturers seem to be ok with the end users messing with those), but to not offer the option of re-filling the cartridge with air? That is weird. Temperatures change throughout the year. You need the ability to adjust the pressure in the post to allow it to work properly. Right now, my Dropzone drops and extends at a little under half-speed of my Reverb. Granted, it is cold right now so I know the factory charged air has dropped in pressure, but I should have the option to add more air to compensate. Every other manufacturer (as far as I know) has the schraeder valve setup so you can add air.

While Cakelly4's electric tape-wrapped needle is genius (and hilarious), there certainly has to be another way available to the end user. I found this video on Youtube last night. This is a sweet setup for adding air to the Supernatural series and be able to read the pressure. Too bad I don't know multiple languages. Would be sweet if this guy spoke English. I don't know if he mentions in the video or not how he made the air fitting. I have to imagine there is some item that I can buy that already fits, then simply adapt it back to the threads of a shock pump fitting.
KS 2ªparte,Toma de presion. - YouTube

Overall, I'm very pleased with the quality of the KS products. It looks like to me the quality of the Supernatural series is on par with the LEV, except that the LEV took care of all the very obvious design flaws. Most notably, the air system. Also, I can't tell from the pics, but are all the dynamic o-rings on the Supernatural quad rings like the LEV? I didn't want to open mine all the way without a way to charge it back up with air. I know people don't like the moving cable housing, and the stationary setup of the LEV is certainly nice, but not completely necessary for me. I've always had a moving housing with the Reverb. KS also made a much better saddle clamp with the LEV, although seeing the Dropzone single bolt clamp up close, it is much better than I anticipated. The only gripe I have with it is the length of the clamp istelf. It should have a longer rail holding section to spread out the pressure from sitting on the saddle. At the same time, it is a bonus for me because it allows me to gain even more than 20mm of offset. Sure, this puts even more stress on the saddle rails, but I don't care. I'll replace saddles all day as long as I'm in a comfortable riding position. I also use a saddle with titanium rails. They shouldn't bend as easily as the cromoly, and so far that has proven correct as I've always shoved my saddle as far back as possible. Downside is that titanium tends to break instead of bending, but its break point is beyond the cromoly bend point. Time will tell here.

Speaking of saddle clamps, I am curious if KS simply threaded in the saddle clamp into the telescoping tube (I know for a fact that Rockshox threads in the saddle clamp into the Reverb. It sorta makes me think about a possible franken-KS post in the future. I bet the Supernatural and LEV use the same telescoping post. I wonder if it would be possible to unscrew the saddle clamp from a Dropzone and thread it onto a standard LEV? I wonder....

2 major things I noticed that KS got right over SRAM: First, the brass keys are twice as long. They are thinner than what RS uses, but they also have a tighter fit. I bet there is still more surface area on the KS posts which of course will spread out the load and allow the keys to last longer. In addition, the DU bushing is a separate piece from the threaded collar. it is only $9 to replace as opposed to buying a $40 threaded collar every time that bushing goes bad, and I expect that bushing to last maybe a season considering how far back I push my saddle. Curious though, RS does use 2 bushings instead of 1. They have another bushing to receive some of the 'seated position' load that is located right under the brass keys on the telescoping tube.

As for cable operated systems, I MUCH prefer the KS setup to my Specialized Blacklite (my backup post). The button is awesome! I also didn't know that it could take the place of an ODI collar. Extra bonus! Having the cable adjuster on the noodle was also a nice bonus. Great design. Lastly, removing the cable barrel from the post to do post maintenance is 10 times easier than the blacklite. My only gripe here is there are two 1.5mm set screws. 1.5mm? Couldn't KS just used a 2mm or 2.5mm? Thankfully, I have a high quality wrench set that goes that small.

Cakelly4, you were right about the bottom locknut! Wow, I cannot believe how difficult that was to remove! It's a joke that KS would make service videos showing them easily removing it compared to how it is in real life. The thread locker they use here is the kind that says to me, "We DO NOT want you to remove this nut". Had I damaged something, I would have had a real problem with KS considering they encourage the end user to do the basic maintenance. The Reverb is also setup in the same way, but all I've ever needed were my aluminum soft jaws to hold the tube tightly to remove the bottom nut. I needed to use my aluminum soft jaws (tightened down way past what I do for my Reverb) and two separate vise grips around thick rubber, same as you. I honestly thought I was fractions of a mm away from crushing that tube. That still wasn't enough. I sprayed it with some thread-loosening compound and gave it 15 minutes or so. Nope. I tried using my heat gun. Rarely do I have problems after using my heat gun. Nope. Still not enough. I resorted to holding a lighter on the nut for 2 minutes. Yeah, the nut turned black and so did the red bottom collar, but finally I started to hear the threadlocker bubbling. That was my cue to try again. It made the most God-awful, high pitched screaching/creaking noise, followed by a loud pop. I was certain that I definitely broke something, but it was just the threadlock finally letting go. Ridiculous.

Lastly, (sorry for the long post and slight derail on the thread), but this thread should be followed by everyone that uses a dropper post. It gets old seeing how many people complain and bicker about how their post fails or this or that manufacturer's post sucks, etc... If there is one thing I've learned now from this thread is that all the hydraulic posts out there work pretty much the same exact way. The only differences are minor tweaks to bushings, keys, location of o-rings and location of actuation. Too many people get bent out of shape when it is obvious to me that all of these posts just need regular maintenance. People accept that suspension needs regular maintenance, why not these posts? Suspension has some leniency since it is allowed to constantly move.... and the o-rings still go bad in suspension on a year, to 2 year basis. hydraulic dropper posts are required to hydraulically lock the post in place. That is an extreme amount of stress on those o-rings. They are eventually going to fail... so why not replace them like you would on a fork? It is simple enough to do and o-rings are super cheap, even quad rings. Ok, I'll get off my soapbox. Back to the great discussion here. Also, if anyone figures out a good solution to charge air into the Supernatural series, please post it here!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

That video was interesting - mostly because I noticed that he had unthreaded the seat clamp assembly from the post. For the life of me, I could not figure out how to do this and eventually gave up for fear of completely destroying the post. 

Although he used a shock pump, I'm guessing his technique is still limited on how accurate to get the pressure. The shock pump seals well on the ball inflator that I used as well. The factor that prevents an accurate pressure read is the internal o-ring covering the pinhole. Once you stop pumping, the o-ring covers that hole, preventing a read. You can read the pressure as you inflate but I'm certain this is not very accurate.

If you decide to add air to your Dropzone, I've come up with an idea that I may try on my wife's Supernatural. Find a small bit of electrical wire with housing that has a diameter similar to one of the craters in the end cap. Strip a piece of the housing off and give it a nice square edge to insert into the crater with the air hole, THEN insert the ball inflator needle into the housing. This should create a snug fit and prevent the problem I had with the electrical tape sliding up the needle instead of sealing. I also had to use pliers to put a slight bend in the needle in order to be able to attach the shock pump (can't remember if I mentioned that).

I may try this soon to make her post a little faster. It performed very nicely on her first ride after service.

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

cakelly4 said:


> That video was interesting - mostly because I noticed that he had unthreaded the seat clamp assembly from the post. For the life of me, I could not figure out how to do this and eventually gave up for fear of completely destroying the post.
> 
> Although he used a shock pump, I'm guessing his technique is still limited on how accurate to get the pressure. The shock pump seals well on the ball inflator that I used as well. The factor that prevents an accurate pressure read is the internal o-ring covering the pinhole. Once you stop pumping, the o-ring covers that hole, preventing a read. You can read the pressure as you inflate but I'm certain this is not very accurate.
> 
> ...


I too noticed that the saddle clamp was removed from the cartridge. The one on my Reverb 'naturally' unscrewed itself, but I'm not about to do it to a new post. I then found this:
Kind Shock Seatpost Service Parts (100108898) at CambriaBike.com
LoL. So at one point, KS was selling the full cartridge kit! That's nuts if the only problem is low pressure! I would have loved to sit in on the design meeting when it was decided the little air hole with the o-ring is the best idea for filling the cartridge with air.

I tried the tape method on the needle last night and failed miserably. I had this whole plan setup where I was going to use a 90 degree bend fitting for a schrader valve, a cut down needle with an o-ring to seal the hole, then smash it together in a vise. Problem is, not much room to work with. I may try my method once I get a 90 deg bend fitting, but in the meantime, I like your idea with the wire coverings. I'll try that tonight. My post needs air for sure. It is a sloooow return, but it works well. Just need to get in some more air.

The pressure reading in the video shouldn't be all that off. As long as everything is sealed, once you pump to a pressure that is higher than what is in the post, the pressure in the pump circuit and post will be the same after every pump stroke even though the o-ring re-seals the hole every time. The gauge would simply read the last pressure it saw from the last pump you just put in. The o-ring is just acting like a check-valve after every pumping stroke.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Oh, and the diameter of the hole is 2mm. Maybe I could find some tube that is 2mm in OD with a hole in the middle.


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## rox (Aug 30, 2008)

how about a 1mm tube and an o-ring? maybe a pump needle with an o-ring and tape above it to keep the ring from sliding up


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

GOT IT!!!!








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cakelly4, I thought about your idea yesterday about the wire casing then realized I could possibly take it a step further. Why not use something that would make the diameter of the needle slightly larger in an incremental way? Like I mentioned before, the diameter of the hole is roughly 2mm. I measured the needle last night and got 1.8mm. Oh so close. It then occurred to me to try using some small heat shrink tubing around the needle. That increased the needle diameter to 2.5mm. It wasn't too hard to squeeze the needle into the hole and it made a perfect seal! I was able to secure the needle in the air port well enough to the point I didn't need to hold it in. I just pumped up the seat post as if it had a schrader valve. I should have measured afterwards, but I want to say I was able to push it into the air port about 10mm. I slightly bent the needle with my fingers so it wouldn't rub up against the center shaft (as seen in the picture), then I took an extra step and put an old portion of a tire tube around it to make sure I didn't scratch it while pumping it up.

I also proved my theory to be correct. My shock pump read the pressure just fine. Now, it isn't exactly how you would see it on a normal shock or dropper post, but it still works accurately. Again, you have to think of the o-ring that covers the inner hole as a check valve (and a pressure safety valve for that matter). When you first start pumping up the Supernatural, you are only filling the shock pump hose with air. It takes 3 pumps to fill the pump hose to 200psi. The next pump I did I saw the needle raise a little, then drop back a few psi. That was the break point. My dropzone was at 200psi. Pressure simply works over a differential. High pressure always moves to low pressure. The moment I made the pump hose the higher pressure than the seat post chamber, the o-ring (check valve) let loose, and the seat post chamber and shock pump chamber equalized their pressures. At that point, the o-ring closes again since there is no longer a differential pressure. The shock pump now 'stores' the pressure reading on the gauge of the equalized pressure.

I pumped my dropzone up to 250psi. That increased the speed somewhat.... but still not quite as fast as I would like it. Either way, it is better and the post works very smoothly. Now that I know how to get air in it along with your great bleed procedure, I think I'm going to get a lot of good use out of this seat post! 

Then maybe one day SRAM will make an offset saddle clamp for the Reverb....


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nicely done. I'll have to check the pressure on my wife's Supernatural after I get some cable housing or shrink wrap. I haven't had much experience with shrink wrap - what size did you get?


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

crap! I forgot to measure it with my calipers. It has to be 3-5mm, un-shrunk.

My best guess is either 1/8" (3.175mm) or 3/16" (4.763mm).
http://www.amazon.com/Install-Bay-H...d=1394204686&sr=8-1&keywords=1/8"+heat+shrink
Amazon.com: Install Bay Heat Shrink 3/16 Inch x 4 Feet: Car Electronics

I just remembered I had some in my house still after having to splice some small electrical wires on another project. It fit perfectly over the needle after I shrunk it with a heat gun, but I'm sure a lighter will work just the same.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

OH! and before I forget, it only took one layer of heat shrink. I first thought I'd need to build up a few layers, but not so. One thin sleeve is all it took. You can find heat shrink at home depot in the electrical dept. or at Radioshack. Any store along those lines that will have electrical tools.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

cakelly4, I had another question: 
What brand of oil did you use for your post bleed? I noticed you mentioned 5wt, but every manufacturer's weights are different. I'm hoping that I have whatever you used so I can test the viscosity. The Reverb uses Maxima 2.5wt oil which is some pretty thin stuff. I'm wondering if KS uses some fairly viscous oil for their posts. If so, I can speed mine up by using a less viscous oil.


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## moralleper (Jan 30, 2004)

I used Buzzy's Shock Nector 5wt.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I use a nearby motorcycle shop anytime I need fork oil. They carry every weight I ever need.









-Chris


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Great thread - subscribed!
Looks like I'll be trying this service soon as my LEV 150 turned into a pogo stick on the last ride.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

cakelly4 said:


> I use a nearby motorcycle shop anytime I need fork oil. They carry every weight I ever need.
> 
> View attachment 875300
> 
> ...


Perfect!!! I was hoping you would say Maxima 5 wt. Now I know for sure I can get my post to move faster to my liking. I'll use some Rockshox 2.5 wt. (same thing as Maxima 2.5 wt.). It has a much lower viscosity than the 5 wt. and should move through the orifices at a greater velocity.


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## rox (Aug 30, 2008)

I havent used it on the lev yet but I keep motul "light 5w" around for this


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

PerthMTB said:


> Great thread - subscribed!
> Looks like I'll be trying this service soon as my LEV 150 turned into a pogo stick on the last ride.


Good luck. Let me know how it goes and if you run into any issues with my instructions.

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Laterilus said:


> Now I know for sure I can get my post to move faster to my liking. I'll use some Rockshox 2.5 wt. (same thing as Maxima 2.5 wt.). It has a much lower viscosity than the 5 wt. and should move through the orifices at a greater velocity.


I'll be interested to see how well that works for you. Keep us updated.

-Chris


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

cakelly4 said:


> Good luck. Let me know how it goes and if you run into any issues with my instructions.
> 
> -Chris


Thanks! One thought though, and its something that's stopping me taking mine apart right now, and pondering instead whether I should send it back under warranty.

Presumably there is some reason all these LEVs are failing in exactly the same way - bad design, premature failure of seals, poorly assembled at the factory, etc...

Because great as your service instructions are, if I understand correctly its basically a bleed of the cartridge because air has got in there? But, I can't see anything that has addressed how the air got in there in the first place, and therefore would stop it happening again.

So, does anyone know what LEV themselves do when they get one returned? Is there a modified part, new design of seals, different oil or something they do to make sure its really fixed?

If we knew this, and it was a part/service kit that was available aftermarket, then this could be incorporated into your service instructions, and I'd be more confident of it being a permanent fix.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I totally agree. If it's under warranty and you don't mind the wait, it's likely worth it to send it in.

From reading several threads, it sounds like they replace the entire cartridge. I've also read a post that stated that KS may be getting seals from a different source since there have been so many problems (a common problem mentioned was seals shrinking when cold, allowing the oil into the air chamber). Whether that has happened, I don't know but it seems there's at least a slight chance that a replacement cartridge may be equipped with these improved seals. Would be a great question to ask Ron Easton. 

The main reason for my thread is to provide a quick fix so people can ride the next day, and maybe send it in when they don't have big riding plans for a while. That being said, mine continues to go strong and feels better than it ever has. Maybe no matter how great the seals, oil and air eventually mix and a bleed is the repair. 

-Chris


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Hi Chris, yes that makes sense. In fact, apart from being a quick fix for 'pogo stick syndrome', I also think your procedure would be perfect as an annual service even if there isn't a problem.

Anyway, as I'm in Australia and bought my LEV online from Germany I could be looking at a few months turnaround for warranty, so I'd be real interested to know if it's worth it because I'd actually get something new & improved inside, or whether they would basically just do what I could do myself by following your excellent instructions. Maybe if you get an opportunity (or someone else in the US) could ask Ron Easton - I don't think he'd be interested in an enquiry from Australia!

Anyway, thanks for a great thread, and I'll let you know if I decide not to go the warranty route and try out your procedure...


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

PerthMTB, there is no such thing as a 'permanent' fix. Things wear out, things fail. There are 2 reasons why to follow cakelly4's procedure: First, you unfortunately received a seat post that was improperly put together at the factory. Second, you've either been riding on the post for awhile or simply got a bad seal from the start. Either way, the seals failed and you have to replace them and then do the bleed procedure.

I find people's lofty expectations of these dropper posts very interesting. There is no special magic behind them. They are semi-complex hydraulic systems that are under an extreme amount of stress. What is funny to me is that people expect their suspension to eventually wear out and require maintenance, but when it comes to dropper posts, they are supposed to somehow last forever. Not possible with the current industry design. I say 'industry design' because they are all using the same one. The only difference between these posts and suspension after seal failure is that your suspension can keep being ridden (albeit with horrible performance) and the seat post cannot. 

So, what is the solution? Well, they could use better materials of construction over Buna-N for their seals, but if they did that, they would increase the MSRP well beyond a reasonable price range for most people. I know. I'm a chemical engineer and I deal with liquid piping systems all day and seal compatibility with a variety of chemicals. There is better stuff out there, but it comes at a hefty price. The MSRP of these posts is already past $400 and that gets under most people's skin as is.
What if manufacturers hired more competent people to assemble these posts? Then no one would get a dead post at the start. That's another good plan. The problem is, competent people want to be paid a wage that reflects their competency. The more you pay your employees, the more you have to charge for your products. Manufacturers pay good engineers to come up with designs to stay competitive. Those guys/gals do not have time to answer the phones, deal with warranty issues or assemble the products. That's what the lower paid people do. Unfortunately, it has been my experience that all bike manufacturers pick up whatever joe-shmo off the street and then don't bother training these employees on how their products actually work (or anything about their products in general).

So, things seem dire at this point. What is the real solution? Knowledge. Plain and simple. Bike manufacturers annoy me. They make great products, but overall, their product support afterwards is not that great.... and I don't mean warranty issues. Most are pretty good when it comes to warranty, but when the trails are dry and it is beautiful outside, a new part coming my way in the mail is not currently on my bike and without that part, I cannot ride. This is why I don't care much for warranty unless it is absolutely necessary. When it comes to dropper posts, I'm never going to wait on a warranty replacement. Not when there are threads like this online where we can help each other figure it out ourselves. I'd much rather replace 4-5 o-rings that cost me a total of $1, spend one hour of my time fixing it then be back on the trail that day.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Ok, so I got through my first post bleed on the Dropzone last night (Same post as the Supernatural but with an offset saddle clamp). I'd like to say it was completely un-eventful, but there were a few hiccups along the way. Not a huge deal though and it got me thinking more on what I could improve, and in the end, I got the results I wanted.

First things first, I needed to remove the bottom end cap without first evacuating the air. I was a bit nervous as I've seen people open dropper posts, forks and shocks without first bleeding the air pressure. Since there is no way to do that on a Supernatural, I put a towel around it and slowly made turns. Thankfully, a little over halfway through, the air will start to hiss and there is plenty of thread engagement left to where you can allow the air to escape without having stuff fly all over the place.

I poured out the oil in a cup and was amazed at how thick it was. I can see where Cakelly4 got better performance out of 5wt oil. This stuff was definitely more viscous than Maxima 5wt. A quick run through a Ford #5 viscosity funnel confirmed my suspicions. Maxima 2.5wt oil was twice as fast through the funnel as the stock KS oil. I thought about doing things incrementally, but decided to go past the Maxima 5wt and directly to 2.5wt.

I also decided to measure all the o-rings and quad rings while I had things opened up. I do this for all of my forks, shocks and dropper posts because I refuse to pay the elevated prices that bike manufacturers charge for simple o-rings. I went online to theoringstore.com and compared my measured sizes to what they had. These are my best guesses, but I'm pretty sure they are all correct.

Bottom End cap:








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Piston Shaft:








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IFP:








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</a>

If I don't have something marked, then I couldn't find something comparable online. O-rings that have 2 sizes associated with them could be either of those sizes. These are small measurements and it is difficult to get with perfect accuracy. Sometimes it is a bit of trial and error. One thing I did notice in contrast to the Reverb is how tight each of the o-rings are. I think KS erred on the side of a slightly smaller o-ring to make the seal as strong as possible. On the flip side of things, that causes more friction and slows the post down (which the post didn't need help considering the highly viscous oil they use). In addition, I'm curious if that extra friction would cause faster wear? Time will tell. Also, KS uses a lot of quad rings. This is a great idea, however, I've only ever found quad rings in standard measurements, never metric. I'm sure someone makes them in metric, but I can't ever seem to find them. This makes the sizing a little off in my opinion. Sure enough, KS uses the exact same size tubes (stanchion tube, IFP tube, piston shaft) as SRAM in the Reverb. No joke. All of their inner and outer diameters are the same, and they are all metric. In some places, the quad rings work very well. In others, the size is a bit off and makes it a massive pain to deal with. The quad ring on the piston shaft fits perfectly. The IFP? Wow, massive pain in the ass.

During one of my reassembly attempts, I could not for the life of me get the IFP tube back into the IFP. The inner quad ring was too small to fit around the outer diameter of the IFP tube. I mistakenly though that hitting the IFP tube with a rubber hammer would help pop it in. It didn't. I shredded the inner quad ring on the IFP. I didn't worry though as I knew I had something that could fit in its place as I have many o-rings for my Reverb. Sure enough, a 2.5mm x 14mm metric o-ring fit perfectly. It was still a tight fit, but not ridiculous as the quad ring was. Will it blow out quicker? Don't know until I start putting a lot of miles on this thing. I will say this: SRAM doesn't use quad rings on the IFP and I've never had an IFP o-ring fail. That's in a Reverb, though. The Reverb has the air pumped in through the piston shaft. When the valve closes on a Reverb, all the stress of sitting on the saddle is put into the o-rings on the bottom end cap o-rings and piston shaft o-rings. The Supernatural is a bit different and I think the stress from sitting on the saddle is spread out between piston shaft, bottom end cap and IFP o-rings. If I'm right, it is a slightly better design to spread out the load over more places. Again, time will tell if my standard o-ring holds up. If not, I'll go back to the quad, but I'm not quite sure how I will get the IFP tube through it.

Ok, onto the bleed procedure. KS definitely followed what I've told others in the Reverb thread. You need to push the IFP down at least to the length of how far your post can extend, or past that point. Following Cakelly4's plan will work.

Next, I placed my seatpost in my vise (with aluminum soft jaws) in a way that kept the post stable, but also had the valve depressed at the same time. A little rigging with a cassette lock tool seemed to do the trick beautifully.







</a>

At this point, I do things slightly different from Cakelly4. I was bored and wanted to figure out if there is a way to completely remove all the air from the internal system. I think I was able to do that. Once I had my post in the vise with the valve pressed in, I poured in a small pool of 2.5 wt. Maxima oil (or Rockshox which is re-branded Maxima with some food coloring added in). The pool was maybe 4-6mm deep. I then pushed in the IFP into the stanchion tube by itself all the way to the end (all the way to the saddle clamp). I happened to have SRAM's IFP tool and it works perfectly on the KS posts as well. It's a nice tool because you won't scratch the inside of the stanchion tube while pressing in the IFP (although a piece of PVC pipe the same size would also work fine)







</a>

My reasoning here is that I do not want to trap ANY bubbles behind the IFP. Any air and oil the IFP contacts as I push it to the end of the stanchion tube will escape up through the inside of the IFP. Once the IFP is in place, then I install the IFP tube. This is where having a very tight quad ring on the inside of the IFP caused me fits. My bleed plan doesn't work if I can't push the IFP tube through the IFP. So I destroyed the quad ring, replaced it, and moved on. The IFP tube displaces a small amount of oil and that just goes slightly up into the IFP tube. Doing this in 2 parts though seals off the IFP perfectly from any air getting trapped underneath it.

I now filled the IFP tube all the way to the top, but I didn't stop. The act of pouring the shock oil tends to make a lot of small bubbles (and a few large ones). I could have just filled the IFP tube to the top, went away for awhile and waited for all the bubbles to float to the top and escape, but I was impatient and stole a trick from the Reverb bleed procedure. If you keep pouring into the IFP tube and let it spill over the sides, it will start to go into the cavity between the IFP tube and stanchion. Don't worry, we don't leave it there. It is just a way to get the air bubbles moving. They'll go out with the oil that spills over the sides.

Once all that air spills out, I pressed in the piston shaft into the IFP tube only until the quad ring on the piston shaft engages the IFP tube. That creates the last seal needed to close the system. I then remove the post from my vise and pour out the excess oil (with air in it) that spilled into the cavity between the IFP tube and stanchion.

I put the post back into the vise and re-setup my system to keep the post steady and have the actuator pressed in. I then took a cue from the other video I posted and used the piston shaft to set the IFP depth. With the valve open, the piston shaft will move the IFP via hydraulic pressure. I simply pushed the piston shaft into the IFP tube until the threads of the bottom cap could engage the stanchion. I screwed the bottom cap back on, pumped my post back up to 200psi, tested it, and sure enough, it didn't drop at all. No sag! Not even 0.5mm. First ever perfect bleed for me on a hydraulic dropper post. The speed of the post was also drastically increased. Still, I wanted a little more so I took it to 250psi. That did it.

Here is a small video of the speed of my post right now. Mind you, the temperature here was in the low 30's when I took this video, so the post is a little slower than what it was last night when I first tested it, but the speed is still plenty fast to be useable on the trail. It should speed up a lot more once it gets hot outside. At that point, I'll probably drop the pressure a bit so it doesn't go as fast as those ridiculous mechanical posts that launch you to the moon while crushing your nuts at the same time.

So that's it. Hopefully this helps you guys out. Remember, the LEV, Reverb, Supernatural, etc. all work the same way (and probably the other hydraulic posts on the market). They can all be fixed by the end user with a little bit of detective work. The only real difference is that you have to think about where is the valve located internally. That will determine where you want your IFP and how you should bleed the system. I thank Cakelly4 for starting this thread to get the creative juices flowing!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Laterilus, Nice work with the seals identification. Would be nice to have that info for the LEV as well. I damaged the inner IFP seal exactly the same way - death by rubber mallet (in hind sight, a poor choice). In my instructions, there's some tips on how to get it back on from another MTBR member for future reference. Though as you know, it's easier to avoid air in the system if the IFP can be inserted by itself before the shaft it rides on. Hope the seal you replaced it with holds.

PerthMTB, I called Ron Easton and left a message asking about the new cartridges they're providing people with. My thoughts are that if they did upgrade the seals, why not use the warranty to get a new and improved cartridge. I agree that all seals will fail and need replacement at some point, similar to suspension, but if they fail prematurely and have since upgraded the seals, you may as well get a new cartridge out of it. I've read threads where LEVs failed after only 1-2 rides and that's clearly not normal wear and tear. Downside of replacing obviously is the down time and shipping costs. Would be nice to eventually get the specs on the seals or to have a KS replacement kit available for purchase (though likely overpriced as Laterilus mentioned).

The other reason I called Ron is to get information about a possible alloy replacement barbed ferrule. Last I spoke with him, he mentioned that there was rumor of one being available soon and told me to check back in with him at a later time.

I'll keep you posted if/when he calls me back.

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

cakelly4 said:


> Laterilus, Nice work with the seals identification. Would be nice to have that info for the LEV as well. I damaged the inner IFP seal exactly the same way - death by rubber mallet (in hind sight, a poor choice). In my instructions, there's some tips on how to get it back on from another MTBR member for future reference. Though as you know, it's easier to avoid air in the system if the IFP can be inserted by itself before the shaft it rides on. Hope the seal you replaced it with holds.
> 
> PerthMTB, I called Ron Easton and left a message asking about the new cartridges they're providing people with. My thoughts are that if they did upgrade the seals, why not use the warranty to get a new and improved cartridge. I agree that all seals will fail and need replacement at some point, similar to suspension, but if they fail prematurely and have since upgraded the seals, you may as well get a new cartridge out of it. I've read threads where LEVs failed after only 1-2 rides and that's clearly not normal wear and tear. Downside of replacing obviously is the down time and shipping costs. Would be nice to eventually get the specs on the seals or to have a KS replacement kit available for purchase (though likely overpriced as Laterilus mentioned).
> 
> -Chris


Chris, I suspect the standard o-ring I used in place of the quad ring on the IFP will hold considering the IFP o-rings on my Reverb have been fine for 2.5 years. This isn't a complete apples to apples comparison, but it is very, very close. The IFP for both the Reverb and Dropzone are exactly the same. The only difference is that the Reverb uses standard o-rings with teflon glide rings on either side and KS uses quad rings. RS uses 2.0mm thick rings and KS uses 2.5mm to fill the gap where the glide rings would be on the Reverb. Either way, the internal o-rings are the exact same size. The Reverb uses a 2x14mm o-ring and the Dropzone uses a 2.6x13.9mm quad ring (size 113). Considering manufacturing tolerances, essentially the same size o-ring. It's just easier to get the Reverb IFP tube through the IFP since it is only a standard o-ring. The main stress points on the Reverb that eventually fail are the bottom cap and piston shaft. If for some reason the standard o-ring doesn't hold strong in my Dropzone, I'll re-create the Reverb design and change to a 2mm thick o-ring and put teflon glide rings on either side to see if that helps.

Speaking of the o-ring failures inside the Reverb, I think that ALL of these posts probably fail the exact same way. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that in addition to the Reverb and Dropzone (Supernatural), I bet the LEV also uses the exact same diameter for the stanchion tube, IFP tube and piston shaft tube. If that's the case, it also uses essentially the same size o-rings as I've discovered on the Reverb and Dropzone. The Reverb has a few different ways of failing with internal o-rings. First, the o-ring on the piston shaft (with glide rings on either side) will fail, allowing air and oil to mix. Prior to seeing this thread, I had already changed the o-ring on my Reverb's piston shaft with a quad ring just like KS already provides. Same exact size between the two, size 109. Secondly, the large o-ring on the inside of the bottom end cap that seals around the outside of the piston shaft. If that fails, the air leaks out of the post and can't hold you up. Lastly, the o-rings just below the threads of the bottom end cap. I've run into this problem numerous times on a Reverb. The bottom end cap will unscrew itself and eventually, the o-ring can't hold containment and gets blown out and destroyed. The air leaks out and can't hold you up. See the picture below.







</a>

Anyway Chris, you could probably get away with getting a lot of the same size o-rings for the LEV and I bet they would work fine. I'll be curious as I go through this season if the Dropzone endcap also unscrews itself over time or if any of the other o-rings go bad. Either way, it is very quick and easy to break it down and get it fixed. Also, since it has the same size stanchion as the Reverb, it can also use the drop-setting collar as a quick fix on the trail to get you out of the woods.

I highly doubt KS has changed their design by making different sized tubes for the LEV. If they have upgraded their seals from Buna-N, I'd love to know what they are using, but I'm guessing nothing has changed. While premature failure sucks pretty bad, it can, and does happen. I certainly understand wanting to get a warranty post replacement, and assuming it works, it will still only work for a period of time. Might as well learn to fix it yourself instead of having down time, but to each their own.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Chris- Thanks for these instructions. Worked great for me. As you said, feels better than it ever did. I don't know if the seals were bad and/or bad assembly from the start. I actually think the latter, for sure. 

A few points that came to my attention when doing the rebuild:

*Reinforcing that when you use the snap rings to remove the end cap, be super careful. Mine popped like a volcano! Sort of like a stuck down shock. (step 10)

*Good use of belt wrench makes it easier.

*When reinserting the push rod, take care to not push it too far. If you're not careful here, you'll need to redo when you are paying better attention. (step 14b) 

Excellent, comprehensive instructions! thanks again.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. Glad it worked out for you! Keep me updated on the performance after some significant mileage. Mine has been flawless ever since and I'd be interested to know if the same holds true for others.

-Chris


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## monocles (Feb 15, 2012)

Great guide, but to my disappointment it doesn't apply to the 27.2mm version. My Lev has gotten stuck in the extended position, and I thought a first step would be to examine it.

This is what it looks like:







The whole cartridge package. Notice that it's made up of two parts.








The top of the post. No air valve. KS says that this version isn't adjustable regarding air pressure, but there should be some way of relieving or adding air to the cartridge.








The push rod. Symmetrical design. When I shine a flashlight down the tube where the rod goes, it seems as if the actual valve pressing point is slightly smaller than the tube, and surrounded by a metal ring. If the push rod has to push the very center of the valve, this might be the issue - but then, why isn't the push rod conical in the end going down the tube?








Where the piston meets the cartridge. With a socket wrench, you should be able to open it here. But with the post still pressurized, I can't get the piston to compress, and I don't have a socket with a hole and an external gripping point. It could work with a socket and a strap wrench.

The problem isn't the cable, since I can't compress it by just pressing on the push rod. I guess it's going back to KS, but someone here might have an idea of how to depressurize, open and pressurize it again?


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Carl Mega said:


> *Reinforcing that when you use the snap rings to remove the end cap, be super careful. Mine popped like a volcano! Sort of like a stuck down shock. (step 10)


I find this only happens in one of two different situations: First (and I'm assuming you did not do this), if the air from the post isn't first released, that bottom cap will definitely pop when released.

Second: Air got by one of the seals and mixed with the oil. Since air is now trapped where it shouldn't be, there is no way to release it prior to working on the post. This is a good indication that one of the o-rings is going bad. Sure, it is still working somewhat (it did trap air and not allow it to escape), but more stress by sitting in the saddle will keep making it worse or you will keep seeing the same situation happen over and over. I'd say change the internal o-rings if it happens again soon. Either way, good job on the rebuild! Maybe there is a third situation here and you've corrected a very poor build job by KS? If everything wasn't screwed together properly, the o-rings couldn't perform their task properly and air was able to sneak by.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Laterilus said:


> Second: Air got by one of the seals and mixed with the oil. Since air is now trapped where it shouldn't be, there is no way to release it prior to working on the post.


Thnx. Exactly my thought. Same as on a rear shock where it gets "stuck down" - air pushes past a seal - in that case creating a massive negative spring - and you can't release it through normal means.

We'll see what happens longer term. Nothing was obviously wrong but tolerances of those o-rings is pretty tight. Did a two hour ride yesterday and all's well so far. Would love it if KS offered an o-ring rebuild kit but since this isn't technically user serviceable I don't see that coming..

Crossing fingers...


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Adding a bit more info: from out of the box, my LEV was very easy to 'pull up' when in a compressed state. So if you - say repositioned the rear of the bike by the seat, the post would pull up / extend. My 950 didn't do this and I saw the LEV warning not to pull up on the seat when depressed so I was cautious about handling it... Well, after the rebuild, the post behaves like my 950. It feels solid in a compressed state and doesn't extend from trivial handling. That's part of my reasoning for thinking it was bad from the factory.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Carl Mega, 

That was going to be one of my questions - if you happened to have lifted the seat much. I've read threads that report it IS normal for the seat to rise some if lifted in the down phase, but that it could create enough negative pressure to suck air past the seals into the oil chamber. I've definitely been avoiding that action since reading it.

Monocles, That is a major bummer. My first thought was that maybe you add air like you do on the Supernatural and Dropzone (pictured on one of the previous pages here) but that doesn't appear to be the case based on your pics. Do the two parts of the cartridge come apart perhaps? I saw the small hole on the side of the gold portion of the cartridge and wondered if pressing that in with a small screwdriver disconnects the lower gray portion. Hard to tell without handling it as it's definitely foreign to me and quite different than the LEV. 

Good luck
-Chris


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## monocles (Feb 15, 2012)

cakelly4 said:


> Monocles, That is a major bummer. My first thought was that maybe you add air like you do on the Supernatural and Dropzone (pictured on one of the previous pages here) but that doesn't appear to be the case based on your pics. Do the two parts of the cartridge come apart perhaps? I saw the small hole on the side of the gold portion of the cartridge and wondered if pressing that in with a small screwdriver disconnects the lower gray portion. Hard to tell without handling it as it's definitely foreign to me and quite different than the LEV.
> 
> Good luck
> -Chris


It really is a bummer. The small hole is actually one of those small ball joints (I don't know what it's called in english), where you press down on the ball and then you can slide them apart. But not in this case. I've tried pressing on the ball but I keep slipping, and it feels like I'm only going to scratch the cartridge. The ball doesn't seem to move at all. I think it's only there to keep the cartridge in a certain position sidewise.

I think the key to my issue is within the large socket where the piston goes in the cartridge. But this area is pressurized in your LEV, right? Isn't that where you're using the snap ring pliers?

Also, how is the valve built up? In my LEV, the push rod pushes on a flat surface inside the piston. Have you tried unscrewing the whole piece on picture 13b in your guide? My issue seems to be stiction somewhere in the valve piece, since the push rod is completely solid.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

cakelly4 said:


> That was going to be one of my questions - if you happened to have lifted the seat much.


It's been on my mind ever since I read the warning. I was very surprised that the post acted differently than the 950; it was so easy to 'extend' that you could do it just by looking at it . Seriously, a simple touch would move the saddle. After the rebuild, it's very different. I think it already had some vacuum issues or similar.

I wouldn't hang the bike from the seat when compressed but normal stuff one might do like moving the bike or leaning it over seems fine so far.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

monocles said:


> I think the key to my issue is within the large socket where the piston goes in the cartridge. But this area is pressurized in your LEV, right? Isn't that where you're using the snap ring pliers?
> 
> Also, how is the valve built up? In my LEV, the push rod pushes on a flat surface inside the piston. Have you tried unscrewing the whole piece on picture 13b in your guide? My issue seems to be stiction somewhere in the valve piece, since the push rod is completely solid.


Yes, that's the area that is pressurized. If you were able to get a socket wrench on there, it would be similar to when I disassembled my wife's Supernatural post - no way to release the pressure first. I just pointed it away from my face with goggles on. The problem with yours is even if you get it apart, how will you add air?

I didn't disassemble the valve any further but I could see through the holes in the valve that when the rod is pushed through, a little spring loaded door opens and is then closed by the spring when you release the rod. I did see some stiction on one of the posts I serviced but it was more a problem of sticking open rather than closed. I'm guessing you've already tried using some brut force against the work bench to try unsticking it?

-Chris


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## monocles (Feb 15, 2012)

cakelly4 said:


> Yes, that's the area that is pressurized. If you were able to get a socket wrench on there, it would be similar to when I disassembled my wife's Supernatural post - no way to release the pressure first. I just pointed it away from my face with goggles on. The problem with yours is even if you get it apart, how will you add air?
> 
> I didn't disassemble the valve any further but I could see through the holes in the valve that when the rod is pushed through, a little spring loaded door opens and is then closed by the spring when you release the rod. I did see some stiction on one of the posts I serviced but it was more a problem of sticking open rather than closed. I'm guessing you've already tried using some brut force against the work bench to try unsticking it?
> 
> -Chris


That's why I've haven't tried opening the cartridge  The case could also be that when you loosen the socket, you can remove the silver piece of the cartridge and find some sort of air valve. But I don't want to be the first trying and ending up with a manual seatpost. Though, somehow KS manages to pressurize it...

I see. I've actually gotten the post to start working again, by standing the post on stone floor and putting my bodyweight on it. It said pop and started moving. Now I've put grease down the piston by using the push rod, so if the stiction is in the moving metal parts down there it should be fixed. It's still working this morning.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Carl Mega said:


> It's been on my mind ever since I read the warning. I was very surprised that the post acted differently than the 950; it was so easy to 'extend' that you could do it just by looking at it . Seriously, a simple touch would move the saddle. After the rebuild, it's very different. I think it already had some vacuum issues or similar.
> 
> I wouldn't hang the bike from the seat when compressed but normal stuff one might do like moving the bike or leaning it over seems fine so far.


Sounds like to me that KS has some quality issues in personnel over components. If people here are constantly solving problems associated with air leaking by o-rings without having to change the o-ring, then the person building the seat post in the first place is doing a very poor job. That sucks considering KS says their posts are not user serviceable (except for in this thread.)

Monocles,

I agree with you that there is something here we are all missing concerning your seat post. I like it because it is a new challenge, but I feel your pain with a malfunctioning seat post. Could you possibly take some more detailed pictures all around the post? If it weren't for Cakelly4's pictures of the Supernatural, I would have NEVER noticed that little pin hole meant for pressurizing the post. I feel like that same pin hole is somewhere on your seat post. Also, my guess is that it would work just like the Supernatural. I too was worried when I first unscrewed the bottom end cap, but I did go slowly enough that I could release the air without having the cap blast off the end. There should be a point in the threads where once you've unscrewed it enough, you'll start to hear it hiss. At that point, I just stopped unscrewing and allowed all the air pressure to vent.

As far as getting a socket over that area, how far in does the piston shaft go into your seat post? That is how I'm guessing you could remove the bottom end cap. If you push the piston shaft a little past 'flush' with the end of the end cap, you could get a socket in there to take it out. This is assuming we first find out how KS got air in there in the first place. Have you closely examined all around inside the end cap for a small pin hole? What about shinning a light down the piston shaft? Any indication in there that they filled it with air through the piston shaft?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

monocles, glad you got it unstuck. I wondered if brut force was the ticket. It's definitely an interesting challenge and some extra pics would be nice. It'd be even better if someone out there had some experience with dismantling the 27 mm and posted the info here. I'm guessing that's not likely though. Hope it continues to work well for you. 

-Chris


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## monocles (Feb 15, 2012)

The post is still working. I'll leave it be til tomorrow to see if it will get stuck again, and then I'll tear it apart again to take more pictures. Too dark to get good pictures now anyway.


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## monocles (Feb 15, 2012)

The post was working all fine indoors, so I took it for a ride. It worked flawlessly, til the very end of the ride when it started to get slow on the return. Then it got stuck extended, but the lever was working fine (so the push rod shouldn't have been stuck). Stepped off the bike, and pushed the saddle by hand - it's working! It continued to the same thing the following 10 mins - slow return speed, sometimes took a thump to make it start moving.

Got the bike back indoors, and now it's stuck. The lever isn't working, so it should be the same problem as last time. The behaviour of partially stuck also happened last time.

I'll tear it apart later, and hopefully we can find a solution to this riddle


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I'm curious. Does your post have the same internal kevlar cable that the other LEVs have or is it activated some other way? I agree that it's probably the same issue, but if you get in there and the push rod is not stuck, you should check your internal cable for stretch. The first symptoms I noticed when my internal cable stretched in the past were inconsistencies in activation and sometimes no activation at all followed by occasional normal activations. 

Keep us updated. 
-Chris


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## monocles (Feb 15, 2012)

I found one of them holes! It's really small, guessing diameter around 0.5-1mm. So I'm guessing the 27.2mm LEV is more like the Supernatural/Dropzone, rather than the bigger LEVs.

I've also heard from the previous owner (of whom I bought the post as-is) that his bigger LEV that had the same problem, has been behaving better when he lowered the air pressure.

The only problems for me to proceed from here is to find the right tools. First, the ball pump head and shrink wrap. I don't know if my hole is smaller than in the Supernatural/Dropzone, but I find it unlikely that a ball pump will fit in that hole. Especially with shrink wrap. But I'll bring the post to a hardware store and look through their air section, as well as a sporting store.

Second, the socket. I'm going to need an allen key with a hole through it. I've only seen holes that doesn't go all the way through, like this one: https://www.biltema.se/ProductImages/10/large/10-102_l.jpg
The size I need is 14. Any idea of where to find one with the hole in it?  If I can't find one, one solution might be to get a soft (cheap) size 14 and drill a hole through it.

Thanks for the help guys, I would definitely not have found the hole weren't it for this thread


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Great find!

As for the allen key, I don't think you need one with a hole through it. Push the actuator valve and push the piston shaft into the stanchion. That should get it out of your way to use a normal 14mm allen key.


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## monocles (Feb 15, 2012)

The piston doesn't go all the way in. If it did, the actuator would hit the allen screw. I've used a screwdriver to compress the piston and it's seated level with the screw. I.e., I need a hole 

Also forgot to answer cakelly4's question regarding cable, yes, my post has the same design with kevlar cable. The cable is a bit worn but I don't think it has anything to do with my problems.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Interesting. At least you can make it flush with the screw. I was afraid you were going to need a really long Allen key with like a 5" hole through it! Now it only seems like you need one with a 1/2" or 3/4" hole. I bet you could do it with a nice drill bit and steady hand.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Monocles, any update to removing the bottom cap to your post? What about the air charging hole? The only thing I can think of is to get a needle meant for injections (like getting a shot at the doctor) and trying to get some heat shrink tubing around that. 

I also wanted to update this thread on the KS Dropzone that I've slightly modified. The size 113 quad ring on the inside of the IFP that I replaced with a 2.5mm x 14mm o-ring is holding fine, as I thought it would. My post has not sagged a bit, and I run my saddle ALL the way back and I'm a good 240lbs or so geared up. I'm becoming a fan of the KS button. I almost like it as much as the Reverb. If it was just a little lower and didn't need to 'rotate' so much when pressing it, it'd be perfect. Minor details though. The most important thing is that I can do it without thinking about it. That's where a dropper post shines. If it is as easy as shifting, then I'll use it every time it is an advantage to get my saddle out of the way. 

As suspected, the speed of the post increased again with the warmer temps. Grease is less sticky and viscous in the warmer weather. This post is just as smooth as a Reverb or LEV in my opinion. Other than the hokey air charging system, this post is a steal at $200. We'll see how it goes all summer. I'm currently at 7 hours of ride time and 50 miles on this post. It could randomly blow up the next ride or not til October.


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## monocles (Feb 15, 2012)

Laterilus said:


> Monocles, any update to removing the bottom cap to your post? What about the air charging hole? The only thing I can think of is to get a needle meant for injections (like getting a shot at the doctor) and trying to get some heat shrink tubing around that.


I'm in the middle of moving so I haven't had the time to work on it anymore. I think I'll have my workshop up and running in a few days, so hopefully an update is coming 

Good idea about the injection needle. My wife works at a hospital and she'll bring a needle which is 1.2mm thick tomorrow. This needle, some shrink wrap and some kind of DIY needle-to-thread adapter should do the trick.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

While we're updating the thread. I did finally start to get some very mild sag in my LEV on a ride the other day. Almost too slight to notice but I wasn't hearing it slam up with a "thud" anymore so I checked it. Did a quick oil change and good to go. I'll likely need to get more serious next time and start measuring seals for replacement. 

Laterilus - I've never ordered seals before but I'll definitely check that site you mentioned (somewhere in this thread). How are they measured (i.e.: where/what do I measure to order the appropriate sizes)?

It may be a while but once I do that, I'll add the measurements and a link to the site for o-rings into the original DIY post.

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

cakelly4 said:


> While we're updating the thread. I did finally start to get some very mild sag in my LEV on a ride the other day. Almost too slight to notice but I wasn't hearing it slam up with a "thud" anymore so I checked it. Did a quick oil change and good to go. I'll likely need to get more serious next time and start measuring seals for replacement.
> 
> Laterilus - I've never ordered seals before but I'll definitely check that site you mentioned (somewhere in this thread). How are they measured (i.e.: where/what do I measure to order the appropriate sizes)?
> 
> ...


O-Rings are measured by their cross-section (thickness) and internal diameter. Don't worry about the outer diameter as that is automatically set if you measure the other two. You'll notice on theoringstore.com website that the metric o-rings are separated by their CS (cross section). You choose the cross-section, then look for the internal diameter you need. The standard measurement o-rings have a simple number designation to them. For example, the quad o-ring that goes on the piston shaft is a standard 109. a 109 o-ring is 3/32" CS x 5/16" ID (or 2.62mm x 7.59mm). Measuring can be a bit tricky, and this is even more problematic with the relatively large tolerance range these o-rings have. That is why some people's seat posts or forks fail immediately. I lay the o-ring flat on a table and take the backside of a caliper and slowly open it til it can pick up the o-ring on the inside to measure ID. I close the normal side of a caliper around the thickness of the o-ring (trying not to flex the o-ring) to measure cross section. Some are pretty obvious and measure perfectly. Others do not. I will usually buy a few o-rings in a range of sizes around my measurements, especially for those that don't exactly give me 'clean' measurement numbers. If you keep getting odd looking numbers that aren't in 0.5mm increments, start looking in the standard size o-rings. Good chance you'll find your measurements there.

I usually get Buna-N 70

Speaking of updates, I unfortunately have another one. LoL. Looks like I spoke too soon with my replacement o-ring for the size 113 quad (or what I believed to be a size 113 quad) for the inner quad ring on the IFP (the one I destroyed with a hammer). I noticed after my ride last night that my post was sagging a good 2.5mm. That isn't a good sign. It is now in that unpredictable stage where the o-ring could go bad any day. I can only assume the culprit is the 2.5mm x 14mm o-ring as the remaining o-rings in my post were brand new. I removed my bottom cap to bleed the air out, but the piston shot off when I completely removed the cap. Lots of foamy air bubbles rushed out of the oil. Sure sign I had an o-ring leak. I decided to replace it with a 2.5mm x 13.5mm o-ring hoping that would seal a little better, but I'm not exactly counting on it as KS designed this area to use a quad ring.

Looks like I might be experimenting here a bit. The IFP tube is 14mm in diameter. A size 113 quad ring should fit perfectly (2.62mm x 13.94mm). The slightly smaller diameter should help with a tighter seal. The thought has crossed my mind though that the fit on the original quad ring and IFP tube was exceptionally tight. Does KS use a size 112 (2.62mm x 12.37mm)? That is getting pretty small in comparison to the IFP tube, but the o-rings obviously flex and the fit was extremely tight. I may try the smaller quad ring, but I was also wondering how this never seems to be a problem with the Rockshox Reverb.

The IFP tube on a Reverb is the exact same diameter, but Rockshox doesn't use quad rings on the IFP. I've never had one issue with an IFP o-ring on my Reverb after multiple years' use. The IFPs for both KS and Rockshox are the same size, but a slightly different design. Rockshox surrounds the o-rings on their IFP with teflon glide rings. I'm not a gasket, o-ring, sealing, etc. expert, so I'm unsure exactly how those glide rings help. Do they aid in sealing? Do they keep the o-ring from getting deformed? To they help relieve some stress that would otherwise be felt by the o-ring? I don't know. My first thought was to get the Rockshox IFP and use it in my Drop Zone, but I can't buy it on its own. It comes with the IFP tube and other crap. I think I saw the MSRP on it was around $75. So my current idea is to set up the KS IFP with an o-ring and teflon glide rings around it. The problem is, the o-ring groove on the KS isn't as big as the Rockshox since it only houses the quad ring and not the extra thickness of the teflon glide rings. I may either use just one glide ring or sand down the glide rings I ordered to fit one on either side. Hopefully, I can come up with a solution other than trying to fit the IFP tube into the IFP with a super-tight quad ring. It makes getting a good post bleed much more difficult.

Chris, my guess is that your o-rings have gone bad. You've been on your post past a year, correct? While constant bleeds will fix it temporarily, you've now run into air leaking by your o-rings on multiple occasions. It takes a bit of time to tear down these posts and build them back up. It would make sense to replace those o-rings while you have it completely disassembled. I could be wrong, but my guess is you will run into the same problem again in another month (or less).


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## Ferhat Kaya (Feb 18, 2014)

hi all, first I want to thank all of you for the step by step introductory (especially Chris) guidance and other comments in great detail. Made my life much easier. I followed the steps you guys suggested to service my KS Lev dropper seatpost, it worked for a while, but again same problems, sag... So I came to the point of Laterilus, I want to change the o-rings and see how it will go. I think during the cold times all the o-rings went bad. I noticed that during the summer time it was working well, but real problems started after the winter (in Finland). I'd like to learn if one of you measured the size of o-rings in KS Lev cartridge.

-Ferhat.


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## moralleper (Jan 30, 2004)

For those that have had the issue re-surface after rebuilding it on your own, how long or how many rides in between failures are you seeing?

I rebuild mine about 10-15 rides, ~150-200 miles, ago with no issues still.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I had several months and many miles on mine since the last service. To answer the question about seal measurements, I haven't measured mine yet but hope to eventually do so. With the season change, I've been getting as many rides in as possible and just haven't had a chance to dismantle the post. I may wait until there's a problem again before going in (although I should try to get seals soon before any more failures).


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

quick update: Many hard rides on mine since my rebuild and the performance has been great. No complaints. Something I just started noticing tho is long vertical lines of grease/soot on the outer shaft. I think this may be lining up with the copper bushings. Can't tell if it's wear or just dirty grease (I used slick honey). I can wobble the saddle a bit but I think it's always been like that - same as my 950. If someone has an idea - shout back. Thanks.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

It's definitely common for me to have to wipe slick honey off the post after most rides. Can't say as I get vertical lines though and I'm wondering if maybe it's time for you to get in there and simply re-grease the post. Mine tends to get a little water and grime down in there over time and I like to periodically clean out the dirty grease and re-lube it.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Thanks. I'll take a pic next time for reference and then do a quick regreasing / inspection.


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

Very useful resource. Unfortunately, I too have a 27.2 Lev. The return speed is kinda slow and inconsistent - sometimes it doesnt go up all the way. I'd have to slam the post down and up again to get it to go up. I'm thinking this is because of low pressure. 

Monocle: any luck with pressurizing through that tiny hole?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

cobym2 said:


> The return speed is kinda slow and inconsistent - sometimes it doesnt go up all the way. I'd have to slam the post down and up again to get it to go up.


What you're describing may actually be the internal cable starting to slip/stretch/break. If that thing is even 1 mm too long, the internal valve will not fully open when activated and the post will act inconsistent and slow. I would start there. The video for cable replacement is on the KS site. I'm assuming this is the same for the 27 version.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

-Chris


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## DomP (May 2, 2014)

Hi there,

Firstly, thank you for this post. I was able to eliminate the sag issue, but unfortunately trashed the post on re-assembly. So I thought I'd come and highlight to everyone that extra caution should be taken when attaching the actuator assembly to the inner tube. The KS service video shows a strap wrench and spanner being used to tighten the assembly back into the tube. One simple twist using this method caused the whole assembly to break off the threaded portion that screws into the inner tube.

My advice, this is a hand tighten ONLY step!

I now have a piece broken inside the inner tube, and a broken actuator assembly. This renders the post useless.



cakelly4 said:


> Step 5: Using a portion of strap wrench or thick rubber, firmly grasp the inner shaft with channel locks and use an open-end wrench/crescent wrench to loosen the actuator assembly. **THIS STEP MAY BE VERY DIFFICULT DUE TO A STRONG THREAD LOCK ADHESIVE - THE ACTUATOR LEVER IS A SOFT METAL AND CAN BEND EASILY - TAKE CARE NOT TO DAMAGE IT - YOU MAY ALSO NEED TO GET ADDITIONAL GRIP ON THE INNER SHAFT AS SEEN IN THE 2ND PICTURE FOR THIS STEP** (((EDIT))): LESS TOOLS ARE BETTER HERE IF POSSIBLE - SOME ACTUATORS MAY NOT BE AS DIFFICULT TO REMOVE AS OTHERS - VICRIDER222 RECOMMENDS THIS TECHNIQUE: "You will get as much if not more grip by putting on a clean, tight fitting household latex glove and grabbing the degreased shaft with your hand&#8230;keep your thumb out, place the shaft along the base of your 4 fingers and close them. Squeeze them as tight as you can, then turn the actuator base with your other hand"


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## DomP (May 2, 2014)

The other area where I experienced some difficulty is that when I removed the cartridge from the outer tube, the DU Bushing came out of the silver "collar" that is shown in your pictures below. The main collar screwed off fine, but the silver ring stayed attached to the outer tube. I thought nothing of it until I tried to get it all back together. I have still not been able to put the DU Bushing back in place together with the cartridge assembly. Is there a way to get the silver DU Bushing housing out without damaging the post?

Of course I'm assuming I can get the broken thread out from my previous post, and also somehow get a replacement actuator assembly. I haven't managed to find one yet, and any pointers would be appreciated.



cakelly4 said:


> Step 8: Remove the 3 copper guide bushings, then slide off the DU bushing, collar, and bottom of the seat clasp (these could stay in place but will just be annoying)


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hmmm. These are slightly confusing issues.

Firstly, I don't see anywhere in the video where a torque wrench was used to replace the actuator assembly. On the KS site service video for the LEV, the actuator is given a single firm crank with an open end wrench while holding the inner shaft with a strap wrench. Not sure where you saw a torque wrench and spanner being used. The link to the video is in my original post and I'll go back and make sure the link doesn't direct to a different video. My suggestion for removing the broken bits from the tube are to purchase a bolt extractor set which should allow you to remove the remaining portion. Obviously, this may be a delicate procedure so be careful not to damage the threads. The bolt extractors should look something like this:

Vermont American Screw Extractor and Drill Bit Set-21829 at The Home Depot

As for the DU Bushing, I've never had the teflon coating disconnect from the metal part (I think that's what you're describing). Ron Easton has sent me a new DU Bushing when asked in the past so if you CAN get the other part out, you can replace the whole thing. Usually, the copper guide bushings knock the entire DU Bushing out when you pull the cartridge out of the casing.

Let me know how you make out with this and good luck.

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

It just occurred to me that you probably meant to type 'strap wrench and spanner' so sorry for the confusion. Either way, I hope you can get that remaining piece out. Good luck.


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## DomP (May 2, 2014)

cakelly4 said:


> It just occurred to me that you probably meant to type 'strap wrench and spanner' so sorry for the confusion. Either way, I hope you can get that remaining piece out. Good luck.


Correct. I have amended my post.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

Many thanks to cakelly4 and others here for an extremely useful thread. If I had more time and a few more tools, this would give me all I need to rebuild my Lev. But I know my limitations in the shop, and since my squishy Lev is still under warranty, I am sending it in for a fix. Thanks again!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. Good luck with your LEV.


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## GR1822 (Jun 23, 2009)

Tagged


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## mikebreen (Oct 25, 2007)

Alright, I just did this rebuild twice and both times I end up with a little bit of up and down play at full extension, but definitely not the sag it had before. It seems like I can cycle the post up and down slightly when fully extended, and with enough little cycles it starts to firm up...if that makes sense. Could it be that I inserted the piston too far in step 14b? I had a real hard time making a smooth insertion with that one. It seems like the rod would hang up on the first o-ring and I would have to push real hard to keep it moving in and then it would finally push in further, but with so much force required, it may have gone too far. I backed it out some with the activator depressed and topped off the oil, but I'm still not sure if it's too far in. The post is definitely better than it was though. I can't lift the seat up when the dropper is down anymore, but I want to know if it could be even better. Any help guys?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

mikebreen said:


> Could it be that I inserted the piston too far in step 14b? ...it may have gone too far.


It could be that it's gone in too far for sure. Also check step 12 and be sure you get the IFP in the right place. I do this by installing the end cap with the snap pliers at this step since the cap will push the IFP into the proper position. I then remove the end cap and proceed to the next step. My suspicion is that one of these 2 steps is where you need to tweak your technique. I do think you can get it where there is no sag after repair.

Good luck and let us know how it goes if you dive in again.

-Chris


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## mikebreen (Oct 25, 2007)

Right on, thanks for the reply Chris. I believe the IFP is in the right spot. I used the end cap technique the first go around, and the next time it looked like it was still in the right spot. I have a strong suspicion that it's the piston. For the life of me, I could not get the thing in past the second o-ring without a ton of force, which ended up with oil splashed everywhere and the rod in too far every time. I think I'm just gonna call it good for now unless things get worse. It's not really so much as sag even, more like not quite reaching full extension. I might talk to KS and see what they have to say about things. I don't really want any downtime at the moment though.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yeah. I hear ya on the down time. Unfortunately, my suspicion is that KS will simply request that you send it in. I also understand your frustration with that inner piston - I too have worn more oil on me than is actually in my LEV. 

Another tip is to be sure to smear a thin layer of Slick Honey (or similar) all over the post and between the DU Bushing and collar when reassembling to make sure you're not just getting a little stiction in there. 

Otherwise good luck with the post. 

-Chris


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

thanks for the step by step!!...After about a year and a half of some good use started to develop some 3/4 inch sag in the LEV...I followed the procedure posted in here and now its gone! thought everything was straight forward and smooth sailing. 

Although upon removing the bottom seatpost cap there was quite a bit of dirty oil so I guess thats why I was getting some sag. Hope that doesnt mean my seals are bad or maybe something rattled loose inside?

we'll see how long this fix lasts...If I start getting sag again I will probably just end up sending it in assuming its a bad seal allowing oil to leak??


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Glad the instructions got you through it. When mine failed, I had a similar finding but mine actually spewed tons of oil because the cartridge cap had somehow unthreaded to the point of leaking. I hope things continue to work well for you. 

Chris


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## KeithM (Oct 4, 2005)

I followed Chris' instruction and now my KS LEV won't compress more than 1cm. Let me back up. I started by having the 1 inch sag problem. When removing the retaining ring with the snap ring pliers there was a large pop so obviously air had gotten into the oil. The one step I skipped in the procedure was Step 11. I did not push the schrader valve down though the post to removed the shaft with the IFP around it. Consequently I did not reset the IFP height although I can't understand why it would have moved. When reinserting the center piston I had little control and it push back in all of a sudden and splashed oil. Perhaps it went in to far? So what's the recommendation? Reopen, fully pull out the shafts, reset the IFP, and reassemble? Also getting the actuator assembly off was a nightmare but I do not believe I damaged the shaft. One other thing to note is that I loosened up the collar to make sure I did not have it too tight and that does not appear to be the issue. Thanks in advance.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Since you had the sag issue, it's very likely that air mixed with oil and the IFP may not be in the right place. It initially took me several tries to find the method that gave the most consistent results which I posted here. I would go back and try the procedure again with all of the steps and see what happens. You don't have to remove the IFP from the middle tube but you should remove the internals and reposition the IFP as described. This results in the proper amount of oil being added in the later step. As you reinsert the inner rod, depress the Schraeder valve to make it a little easier to reinsert. That being said, it's still very easy to insert a little too far and takes some very fine use of motor skills. 

Good luck and let me know how it goes.


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## Terp (Jul 25, 2013)

cobym2 said:


> Very useful resource. Unfortunately, I too have a 27.2 Lev. The return speed is kinda slow and inconsistent - sometimes it doesnt go up all the way. I'd have to slam the post down and up again to get it to go up. I'm thinking this is because of low pressure.
> 
> Monocle: any luck with pressurizing through that tiny hole?


Put some light grease on it and cycle it a few times. Same thing happens to me after I wash it. The grease smooths everything out.


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## KeithM (Oct 4, 2005)

So what I learned the hard way is not pulling out the shaft with the Schrader valve on one end and resetting the IFP, you can end up with way too much oil in the cartridge so that when you reassemble and try to compress the post, it doesn't go down very far. Now I know. Thanks for the help.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

No problem. Glad it worked out for you after all. 

- Chris


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## flatmad (Nov 22, 2013)

I took apart my KS lev last night and gave the whole process a try, basically I failed...first time I ended up with only a 50% compression, with 2mm sag, and second time with 1cm sag and strange return action, not sure what I did wrong, but I did not take apart the actuator assembly and I also left the inner tube stay in place.

so a few questions, from my naked eye, my IFP was pushed all the way down at the bottom (valve side), does it matter? 

do I just fill oil into the inner tube all the way up, or I am supposed to have it overflow to the outter tube? if so, how much? 

when I activate the actuator and try to slide the damper assemble into the inner tube, how much exactly do I have to go down, I didnt find clear info on this..

Thanks,


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

flatmad said:


> so a few questions, from my naked eye, my IFP was pushed all the way down at the bottom (valve side), does it matter?
> 
> do I just fill oil into the inner tube all the way up, or I am supposed to have it overflow to the outter tube? if so, how much?
> 
> ...


OK man. Sorry it took so long to reply. Worked late, then dinner with wifey. Sorry to hear you're having some issues. I know it's frustrating. The good news is I think I can help.

The IFP is the most important component of getting the post to work properly. Before you add any oil, that thing needs to be just 2-3 mm away from the end of the inner tube closest to the cartridge end cap. The IFP separates the oil chamber from the air chamber. If it's all the way down where you mentioned it, then you're essentially filling the entire post with oil and leaving no room for air.

1) Go back to Step 11 and push the schraeder valve into the post to remove all the internals in one single piece (this will also prevent you from having the IFP slip off of the inner tube and the problems that come with that).

2) Position the IFP on the inner tube as pictured in Step 12 and follow those instructions. On the 3rd picture for that step, you'll see that the IFP is visible just slightly below the edge of the inner tube. You're going to fill the inner tube with oil at that point until it overflows, thereby also filling the area above the IFP with oil, right up to the threaded region.

**(Now step back and think about how the post works when it's all assembled - Oil is in the inner tube and on the one side of the IFP. Air from your shock pump [150 - 250 psi] will be in the chamber on the other side of the IFP. When you activate the post and you're sitting on it, the damper sinks into that inner tube, displacing the oil and the IFP is forced by the oil and moves from one end to the other. When you stand up and activate the post, the 150-250 psi you added will now force the IFP back to the other end and with it, the oil back into the inner chamber)**

3) To answer your question about re-inserting the damper assembly, you'll want to insert it to the point where the start of the gold coated portion is level with the visible end of the inner tube (Step 14 b)

I hope this helps. As always, keep me updated on how it goes. I think it should work out or you.

Good luck

-Chris


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## flatmad (Nov 22, 2013)

Ok thanks man for the help.. I think I got it this time.. Yah I thought about how it works and things start to make more sense, but when I tried this time, I could not remove the actuator piece, so there was no way I could do it your way, then again I just removed the snap ring and having the IFP all the way at the bottom, pulled out the piston and poured the oil out, this time only filled up the inner tube, and carefully insert back the piston, just pushed down enough so I could screw the snap ring back in..

I then added air, made sure the piston is fully extended, added more air, then compressed it all the way in, closed the end bottom cap, extended it and added more air to finish.

Now I got better results, everything works the way they should, just having 1mm of sag when fully extended, I guess that's only eliminated by submerging everything in oil when assembling the piston.

Yah I guess it's my fault of pulling the nose up to lift the bike...lesson learnt.

Again thanks for the detailed steps..

Appreciated.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yeah, that actuator is a pain in the ass on some posts. You can see the trick I use to get them off on the second picture in Step 5. Have to use lots of caution doing that though. 

- Chris


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

my experience with the KS LEV 125mm so far:

purchased one year ago, I ride quite a bit. Was working perfectly until the last couple months. The issue was the post would not fully extend to 125mm, it would stop around 115mm then I could help it up the rest of the way while holding the activator button, but when I would weight it the seat would sag back down to about 115mm, so there was about 10mm of up and down slop in the post...cables, seat clamp etc. were all checked and in proper working order so no issues there, was definitely something internal.

I figured that maybe it just needed to be serviced so I followed this procedure here:
KS LEV - DIY Cartridge Rebuild (this thread)
^this took care of the problem for maybe 5 rides, and then the sag issue came back.

So I sent the post in to KS for service/warranty. Overall I thought that they provided great customer service with fast turnaround times. It was about a week from sending in my post till the time I got it back. They ended up replacing the internal cartridge.

Post is working perfect now. For how expensive these posts are I'm expecting there not to be anymore issues for a long time/ever. Will be pretty bummed if there is anymore problems with this post aside from basic service/maintenance.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

I have had 2 posts for over a year, bought them used.
Do they replace the internals for free in this situation?
If not, does anyone know how much do they charge for it?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

A buddy of mine got his cartridge replaced for free but it was under warranty. From a recent experience I had with KS customer service (when trying to get a new DU Bushing), I was told this: "your local dealer can source most parts from BTI, KHS, or QBP (US bike parts distributors). If your dealer can't find them through normal channels, please have them go to https://www.bti-usa.com/public/quicksearch/kind+shock+/?page=2 " Then he listed the specific part number I was looking for. Previously when I had an issue with a part, they just sent it to me. Bummer.

There is a link on the KS site now (Small Parts Guide) that used to bring you to a PDF catalog with pictures and part numbers for all of the parts in each post. It appears they have blocked access to that catalog unless you're part of a Service Center now but the cartridges for 100, 125, 150, etc. were listed as individual parts. This leads me to believe that there's potential that these could be purchased from a distributor if your cartridge goes bad after warranty.

-Chris


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

jazzanova said:


> I have had 2 posts for over a year, bought them used.
> Do they replace the internals for free in this situation?
> If not, does anyone know how much do they charge for it?


Quote from KS warranty,

"Your new seatpost is warranted for a period of two years from the date of purchase. The warranty applies to the original owner and is not transferrable. Proof of purchase is required to validate warranty eligibility."

I think that probably answers your question...


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

fyi, mine was covered under warranty


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## flatmad (Nov 22, 2013)

Interesting, I purchased it online, have to check the packaging and see if there is a warranty card..if memory serves, there is one.

question, I had side to side wobbling since day 1, after I serviced my cartridge, I learnt that the wobble came from the 3 copper retention guides, there might be some play going on but I am not sure if that can be fixed? just wondering..it does not effect my riding at all, but I feel eventually it will wear down and get worse..


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

If you have the receipt from your online purchase, you should be OK as far as getting repairs done under warranty.

If you have rotational play, this could theoretically be the copper guide bushings, the patented one-way roller bearings, the recessed grooves in the cartridge that the guide bushings reside, or the grooves in the black casing that they slide in. I've had very slight rotational play for most of my post's life with no worsening. That being said, I initially experienced play that was so bad it began creaking and could be felt while riding. I sent that one into KS and they essentially replaced the entire post aside from the outer black casing.

If you have side to side play, that may be the DU bushing.

-Chris


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

I started looking at my LEVti tonight after it started sticking. I pulled the cable and found water intrusion. I pulled the post and found the cap on the bottom loose and brown water inside. I disconnected the internal cable and slide the body upwards. The slide itself appears to be whats sticking. I sprayed some lube inside and it got worst and gritty feeling so it needs to come apart. I'm guessing dirt managed to get in where the copper guides are:madman:

It looks like I just need to remove the thread on top collar and the lower actuator head to remove the post from the body and clean the inside out. Can anyone confirm this for me. It looks like the actuator head can be a PITA to get loose, I don't want to mess with it if I don't have to. The post is pretty new, I'm not real happy to have to work on it already.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

That's pretty common, especially if you're not careful when washing the bike and spraying around the collar and junction box. If it's dirty in there, the best thing is probably to do what you've mentioned. There's an instructional video on the KS website (which appears to be down currently) but here's the video link:

KS LEV Service - YouTube

You're right that removing the actuator for the first time can be a *****. I've demonstrated a technique I use on the difficult posts. I can understand being reluctant to delve into that, however this is pretty good maintenance to do frequently to keep the post running buttery smooth and prevent premature wear to the stanchion (which I have seen on a neglected post in the past). IMO it's worth the mild stress the first time so that future maintenance will be easier. I used to get water in there often until I started making a conscious effort to avoid spraying it with the hose. Now it's rare. Occasionally I'll remove the end cap and dump any water if I rode in hard rain or submerged the bike in a stream. Just remember when replacing the cap, you'll need to screw it on but leave the cap loose by 1-2 mm, then compress the post, and finally tighten the cap the rest of the way (all described on the video).

Good luck and give us an update.

-Chris


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Actuator came off really easy, cleaned out the inside and lubed with slick honey. Reassembled then pulled the seat and clocked the cable towards the front to hopefully help keep dirt out. She works smooth like butter now!


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## peterdaam (Jul 24, 2008)

Great write up, saved as a favorite for when I have to dive into mine.
Have a KS Lev DX on its way... some people say it's different, I'm hoping it's close enough to the same as the normal Lev.
Also found that Universal Cycles has some small parts - lots of O-rings etc. Not sure if any of them are for the internal cartridge though?
Universal Cycles -- Kind Shock Seatpost Service Parts


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Just checking in: still going strong and haven't done a thing since the first rebuild.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Peterdaam,

Thanks for the praise. The DX is slightly different but I think the cartridge is similar. Great link for the parts by the way. Thanks! None of those parts are for inside the cartridge (KS seems to just replace them rather than service them) but I've never seen that great of a selection available. It's too bad they don't sell the replacement cartridges. Maybe some day that will happen or maybe a seal replacement kit for it.

Thanks again for the link. 

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Carl Mega said:


> Just checking in: still going strong and haven't done a thing since the first rebuild.


Excellent!! Very good to know. My buddy's LEV has not had another problem since I fixed his. My 100 mm post needs a service every 3-4 months but I'm attributing that to having damaged the IFP seal when I was still learning the best technique. My 125 mm LEV has had no issues with no need to rebuild yet.

Thanks again for the update!

-Chris


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Failed this weekend - back to the 2.5'' squish. Bad timing too as it happened at an Enduro race.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

My post has been awesome since it was cleaned and lubed. If it's really wet/sloppy I now put a piece of a tube wrapped around the collar so it covers where the cable goes in.

I do however have issue with the head of the post creaking. It's the most annoying sound ever. Anyone have any advise on how to keep it quiet?


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

For those of you outside of your warranty and are willing to open up your post to do this service, please realize that o-rings do not last forever. They are considered a wear item, just like they are in a fork or shock. For some unknown reason though, it seems manufacturers of dropper posts are willing to replace the whole cartridge for free as opposed to fixing the problem with super cheap o-rings. I guess it must not be worth their time, however, it is probably worth your time and effort if you have to buy a replacement cartridge. 

The procedure lined out here works very well IF your o-rings aren't already blown. Sometimes things move out of place and aren't seated properly once used. A fresh rebuild with new oil, grease and properly tightening down everything will work great. Sometimes this is not going to solve the problem. If an o-ring is blown, it won't matter how much grease you put on it or how tight you put the post back together.

There are plenty of places to get o-rings online. I typically use theoringstore.com. If you've taken apart your post and the procedure here is not fixing the problem, its time to replace the o-rings. I do not have the Kind Shock LEV but I do have a Kind Shock Dropzone. I suspect many of the o-rings are similar. First off, I know both posts are using the same telescoping stanchion because they use the same DU bushing. Assuming that is the case, the stanchion has an OD of 25mm and an ID of 20mm. I cannot confirm this, but I suspect the piston shaft is 10mm in OD and the IFP tube is 14mm OD and 12mm ID just like the Dropzone. Someone would have to measure these to confirm. 

If my assumptions are correct, you are looking at a few o-rings in total to fix your post. If I was a betting man, I would guess these sizes:

Inner seal head - The outer ring has to touch the inside diameter of the stanchion (20mm). I bet it is a 17mm x 2mm or a 15.5mm x 2.5mm o-ring. The inner quad ring that seals the interface between the inner seal head and piston shaft is probably a size 110 considering the outer diameter of the piston shaft is 10mm. 

IFP - I bet the Dropzone and LEV use the same IFP. That would make the inner quad ring size 113 and the outer size 114.

Piston shaft: Assuming I'm correct on the IFP tube measurements, it would be a size 109 quad ring.

These parts are extremely cheap online. You don't need 'special' parts from Kind Shock. I cannot confirm these sizes though since I don't have a LEV. Next time someone opens up their post, measure the tubes and these o-rings. You'll see you can put together a rebuild kit for around $5.


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## moralleper (Jan 30, 2004)

You can get just about all the parts for KS posts now at Universal

Universal Cycles -- Kind Shock Seatpost Service Parts


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

moralleper,
Definitely a great link to finding lots of parts for the KS posts. Most notably to me is the roller bearing. I did not know it was replaceable. Great to know that now. I'm not a huge fan of one-way roller bearings. They tend to wear out fast and break. I'm not so sure it really is necessary for this design considering they are already using 3 brass keys to keep the post straight and prevent back and forth movement. I'm also curious how to remove the old roller bearing. Anyone try this yet? Pressing a new one in seems simple enough.

Even though Universal Cycles carries a lot of parts for the KS posts, they still don't carry the o-rings needed to do an internal rebuild on the post as demonstrated in this thread. For one, KS does not want you to do this, so they certainly are not going to sell the required o-rings to do a full rebuild. I saw a few o-rings for sale on the link you provided. First, none of them are the correct size to replace the o-rings I'm referring to. Secondly, none of them are quad rings. We know for a fact that KS uses multiple quad rings internally on these posts. Lastly, they are expensive. $2-3 may not seem expensive, but it adds up when you are buying many o-rings.


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## F-Bomb (Apr 15, 2012)

The tutorial is great. It fixed my seatpost issue, caused by water ingress. Well done!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

F-Bomb said:


> The tutorial is great. It fixed my seatpost issue, caused by water ingress. Well done!


Glad it worked out!

-Chris


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

My post has 1.5-2" of sag - it was fine until a sub-freezing ride a few days ago (I have used it in colder temperatures before though). It is still under warranty - am I better off sending it back for warranty repair or going through this repair myself?

I wonder if the seal is worn to the point that it will fail in the cold on a regular basis now, in which case this repair might not make it work for very long.

I appreciate anyone's input on this.

Edit: it is a 2013 lev 30.9-150


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Back when I first started reading about the sag issues, cold weather rides were often reported shortly before issues popped up for people. It seems feasible that extreme cold could cause seals to shrink enough to allow air to mix with the oil chamber, thus creating sag. I remember reading other threads that suggested this as well but this is all speculation. At one point there was mention of newer seals in future LEVs to prevent this but again, this was all 2nd hand. If there were better seals in the more recent cartridges, it may be worth getting a replacement. If not, may as well try the repair and just send it in if things go poorly (obviously have to understand there's risk of losing warranty coverage though I've not had problems with KS). Let us know how you make out. 

-Chris


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## banzonam (Feb 9, 2012)

Chris,

Thank you for the rebuild guide! I was losing about 2" off the top of the post and my ride/race schedule didn't allow me to send it in for service (I can't live without a dropper anymore :/ ) 

It took me 3 attempts to get the proper oil levels correct. The first attempts had air in the system and I was losing ~4" of post and another time I think oil got on the other side of the IFP.

It works absolutely great now, all 150mm of height & drop. I also got to learn how the air/IFP/oil system works, too!

Thanks again.


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## TahoeBC (Apr 11, 2006)

scottg said:


> My post has 1.5-2" of sag - it was fine until a sub-freezing ride a few days ago (I have used it in colder temperatures before though). It is still under warranty - am I better off sending it back for warranty repair or going through this repair myself?
> 
> I wonder if the seal is worn to the point that it will fail in the cold on a regular basis now, in which case this repair might not make it work for very long.
> 
> ...


I got the sag issue during sub-freezing ride last year, KS replaced the cartridge but they were not in stock and stuck on a boat from china, was without a post for around 5 weeks.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

banzonam said:


> Chris,
> 
> Thank you for the rebuild guide!


You're welcome. And I completely understand not riding without the dropper. That's what drove me to figuring this out and sharing it. What year did you get your LEV? How long were you riding it? Just curious.

Thanks for the feedback
-Chris


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## banzonam (Feb 9, 2012)

cakelly4 said:


> You're welcome. And I completely understand not riding without the dropper. That's what drove me to figuring this out and sharing it. What year did you get your LEV? How long were you riding it? Just curious.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback
> -Chris


I bought the post used with the bike, but it should be a 2013. I don't now the service history by the previous owner who raced internationally on it. It was perfect when I got it and started to sag a few hundred miles ago.

I've put ~1,500mi and ~150+hrs on the post, mostly in socal dry heat. No considerable wet or cold riding on the post, only in New England for a week / 15hrs.

I can compile detailed stats on the riding conditions if you really want to go down that rabbit's hole. Just ask!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. I think that's plenty of info. Thanks!

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Chris, you ever get around to measuring the diameters of the IFP tube, piston shaft and the ID of the stanchion tube? I wanted to mention that the size 113 inner quad ring I installed on my IFP has now lasted for 85 hours straight on my KS Dropzone. No sag and the post is still going strong. Very pleased with the KS design. Biggest feature I've noticed over the Reverb so far is the internal seal head. If I had a $1 every time someone had me fix their reverb only to notice that the internal seal head unscrewed..... Yeah, I'd be rich. So curious as to why the KS internal seal head stays put while the one in the reverb slowly unscrews itself. Anywho, just wanted to give you an update. That size 113 quad seems to be the exact same one as what KS uses. Just like we've discussed before, quite the tedious job to work the IFP onto the IFP tube due to the super tight fit, but the sealing so far has been perfect.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Good to know about that quad ring. It's funny that you asked. I literally just ordered a set of digital calipers. I was initially waiting for my 100 mm LEV to start having problems again, but it's been so long, I plan to just go in soon and get the measurements. Hoping to do so this weekend and I'll post the initial measurements. Then I'll need to order some to be sure they fit. I'll probably order a few close sizes like you previously suggested since there's likely to be some error.

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

OK. I dismantled my 100 mm LEV in order to take O-ring measurements. I've ordered the seals and will need to confirm that I got the correct measurements before posting them. When I can confirm the sizes, I'll add some photos with dimensions. 

Turns out that my inner quad ring has been split in half since the day I started this DIY thread. That photo of the quad ring protruding from the IFP (step 11b) is actually only 1/2 of the entire seal. I2 stayed as an intact circle, but the other half of the quad ring was still seated in the IFP. I was able to remove it to confirm measurements (it is a 113 quad - like the SuperNatural), then had to place it back as 2 separate pieces so my wife could still use the post while I wait for replacements. I knew it was damaged and was causing the periodic failures but had no idea it had become 2 parts.

Anyway, I suspect the IFP quad rings will be the most crucial to replace when the post begins to sag and I'm pretty confident about the measurements here thanks to Laterilus' work on the Supernatural, so in case anyone needs to know right away:

Inner IFP Quadring: 113
Outer IFP Quadring: 114

Once I can confirm the other seals, I'll do another photo post.

-Chris


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

cakelly4 said:


> OK. I dismantled my 100 mm LEV in order to take O-ring measurements. I've ordered the seals and will need to confirm that I got the correct measurements before posting them. When I can confirm the sizes, I'll add some photos with dimensions.
> 
> Turns out that my inner quad ring has been split in half since the day I started this DIY thread. That photo of the quad ring protruding from the IFP (step 11b) is actually only 1/2 of the entire seal. I2 stayed as an intact circle, but the other half of the quad ring was still seated in the IFP. I was able to remove it to confirm measurements (it is a 113 quad - like the SuperNatural), then had to place it back as 2 separate pieces so my wife could still use the post while I wait for replacements. I knew it was damaged and was causing the periodic failures but had no idea it had become 2 parts.
> 
> ...


Do you think this is even worth the effort to do then, given that my post is under warranty and I have another dropper post to use for a little while?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

So I should clarify. That split quad ring was my doing. In the early stages of learning how to service the post, I used a rubber mallet to "assist" with getting the IFP back on the shaft where it lives (not recommended). As a result, the shaft sheared the seal in half. At the time, I thought that it had simply damaged it a little and knocked it out of its position. Turns out it was VERY damaged.

Other posts that I have serviced (with a simple oil change and no seal replacement) have not failed again so far. My 100 mm LEV was the only one that would go about 3 months, then begin to sag again. This leaves me to believe that the IFP inner seal was the root of all the problems with my LEV.

Yours, on the other hand, started after a sub-freezing ride which could suggest that your seals simply shrunk and allowed air and oil to mix. A simple service to recharge the system may be all you need. Unfortunately I can't answer that for sure. 

It really depends on what you like to do. I tend to hate having to wait on other people to fix things and prefer to do it myself. It minimizes/eliminates down time and makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. If you have decent mechanical skills, it's a fun project to try. And if you're worried about the seals, you could replace the IFP seals while you're in there - it's simple and very cheap ($2.50 + $5.00 shipping at theoringstore.com). If you do try it and run into any problems, I'm happy to help.

Whatever you do, keep us updated on how things turn out.

-Chris


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

I have completed the steps up to and including removal of the top collar.....but then the silver collar underneath that is stuck in there but good.....do you have any tips for sliding that out?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yeah, that's the DU Bushing and I've had a few get stuck. Typically, you can simply pull hard on the post and the copper guide bushings will pull it out (as demonstrated in the KS video). *HOWEVER*, when it's stuck, that technique often results in damaging the bushing (the inner coated ring separates from the outer ring) Hopefully this hasn't already happened to you but if it has, not to fear. You can buy a replacement for cheap (several links in this thread which I can find for you if this happened).

If you haven't damaged it yet you can do this:

1. Cover the stanchion portion of the post with a rag to protect it.
2. Use channel locks to get a firm bite on the silver ring
3. Slowly twist the ring back and forth while trying to work it out of it's position
4. Once it feels like it's moving freely, you can continue to pull it out with the channel locks or yank the shaft to let the copper guide bushings knock it out as on the video.

Good luck. Sorry it took so long to reply.

-Chris


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Thanks, that worked - I just didn't want to damage anything in doing it. Your reply did not take a long time at all - in fact I appreciate how quick it was.

I'm done for the evening though and I'll let you know how it turned out tomorrow.

I had thought about just sending it for warranty, but figured I would give it a try first and it's pretty interesting to see how it all comes together. I like understanding how things work.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Awesome! Glad you didn't have the inner ring blow out. I plan to revise my original post after I get the o-ring information confirmed and will be adding a warning about the DU Bushing and the technique to prevent it.

Good luck

-Chris


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## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

Chris, honestly, this is one of the best threads I ever happened to read on the whole interwebs. All the information you collected and published here is simply awesome. And to top that you keep it up to date and answer every question. Thanks a lot.

Big shout out to you and cheers from Austria, Flo


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks!


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Dr.Flow said:


> Chris, honestly, this is one of the best threads I ever happened to read on the whole interwebs. All the information you collected and published here is simply awesome. And to top that you keep it up to date and answer every question. Thanks a lot.
> 
> Big shout out to you and cheers from Austria, Flo


Agreed.....I never would have tried this without this good information, and I really appreciate the fast response to my question after I ran into a problem.

I followed the procedures and eliminated the sag in my post. I did not replace anything seals or o-rings. After one ride I am happy to report that it is working perfectly.

I used 120 psi because the kindshock video said that the factory setting was 100 psi. It seems to offer less resistance than before, so I wonder if it was actually set higher than that. Do you think that the air pressure used will affect how long it will work before needing to do this again - I thought that maybe a lower air pressure might help in preventing air from finding its way into the oil chamber, but I really don't know.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Glad it worked out! As far as the resistance, It is likely a combination of at least a few factors:

1. Having disassembled, you've likely re-lubed the guide bushings and stanchion with some fresh Slick Honey or similar (if not, you should). Doing this alone periodically can make a huge difference in the smooth feel. It can be done in a matter of 5 minutes after you've done it a few times so I do it periodically if things begin to feel gritty/sluggish or after really nasty mud/rain rides.
2. I use 5 wt. oil in the instructions which may be slightly thinner than the stock oil but was confirmed to be OK by Ron Easton from KS long ago when I was calling about another issue. The thinner oil moves through the damper faster and thus sinks/rises faster (or with less resistance)
3. Once you get air and oil mixed, it not only sags but also starts to perform poorly.

As far as pressures, I wondered the same thing but have never gone lower than 150 (KS recommends 150-250) and I have stuck with 200 psi for mine and the others that I've serviced. With 5 wt. oil, 200 psi is pretty snappy and I like the saddle to get back in climbing mode immediately when I ask it to. My friend's post has 200 psi in it and has not failed since I serviced it when I started this thread. If I were you, I'd put the pressure wherever you prefer and not worry about it - if it goes bad, you have the power to fix it now If it fails again, you could also try replacing the seals (at least the IFP seals as those are most likely where any problems may be). 

Thanks for updating on how this worked out for you. I'm always psyched to hear someone avoided down time on their bike. Keep us updated if anything changes.

-Chris


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

Is it ok to clamp the stanchion on a bike stand?


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Yeah, I'll jump on the love wagon here too, Chris. Even though I knew how to work on the Rockshox Reverb, I desperately needed an offset seat post and only KS made one that was still hydraulic. Thankfully, you made this thread which made it much easier to transition to KS. Too few threads out there that are truly helpful, but its nice to go to spot where you can share some very useful information and remove some of the 'black magic' shroud that manufacturers use to cover up how their equipment works.

I'll also agree with Chris on the stickiness of the post. I re-lube the inner workings of any dropper post with some fresh slick honey every 2-3 months. Reason being, the brass guide bushings are constantly wearing. No way around it. That is why the old slick honey that you clean out will be a much darker gold color than when you initially put it in. That is brass filings in the grease. In addition, your post will become increasingly sticky the more your brass bushings wear. This gets worse the slacker your seat tube angle is on your bike (i.e. 71 degree seat tube will wear the bushings faster than a 75 degree seat tube). I always check my bushings when re-lubing the post. Pop them off the stanchion tube, clean them, then roll them on a flat table. If they don't roll smooth, then they are worn (they get flat-spotted). Even still, you can flip the flat part to the inside (the side that touches the stanchion tube). Eventually, they get bad enough and you'll have to replace them. 

Again, if you find yourself doing this procedure more than once a year, why not just replace the o-rings while you are in there? This procedure isn't exactly super fast. Sure, you can get good at it, but it is still pretty involved. The o-rings are super cheap. Just replace them and you'll probably get a lot more run time out of the post.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Dan GSR said:


> Is it ok to clamp the stanchion on a bike stand?


I avoid it but I have seen people doing it (even videos of mechanics on PinkBike for example). The difference with this stanchion over a fork stanchion is that there isn't a bath of fork oil on the other side of the wiper seal, so you're not going to leak oil if you have a scratch on the KS stanchion. I prefer not to take the chance in marring the finish though. This is mostly for looks but functionality as well - more scratches on the stanchion could equal more damage to the wiper seal and thus more dirt allowed into the gliding surface of the bushings.

I have an old seat post that I keep next to my work stand and simply swap it out with my LEV when I place the bike in the stand.

-Chris


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## 29erBob (Dec 17, 2009)

I've tried reading this thread because I bought a DX a week ago and it's already pulling up, extending, when I lift the bike by the saddle. It seems to be holding when I push down on it and the lever is untouched. Any ideas? of course it's under warranty, but being without it already would suck.

thanks in advance!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

My advice is simple: don't do that. Either lift the bike from something other than the saddle or only lift by the saddle when it's in the fully upright position. When you lift by the saddle in partial/full down mode, you're creating negative pressure in the chamber and increasing your odds of mixing air and oil - which will then start causing sag. 

I hope this helps.

-Chris


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

It seems to me that you should be able to lift it by the saddle without creating negative pressure as long as it is fully extended, so it is the "skeleton" of the post that is lifting it, rather than the position held due to cartridge pressure. I try not to lift it by the saddle anyway, but I tend to leave the post fully extended when it's just sitting around so that if it does get lifted by the saddle then it won't created undue pressure.


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## 29erBob (Dec 17, 2009)

Thank you! I called KS and they told me that was a normal operation and as long as it wasn't becoming a suspension post it is fine. It didn't do this out of the box at all, and when I explained that the CS guy indicted that is most likely due to the new seal holding the tube in place in the body and it isn't broken already. I thought, because it wasn't functioning like new, it was broken already. I guess not,..  and that's good! I will use an old seat post to mount in the stand when I work on the bike, that seems easier than other options.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

*LEV Exploded View/Seal Specs*

I have relocated this exploded view with seal specs into the original post to keep things tidy.

Enjoy,

-Chris


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Caveat emptor...

I just ended up with a 27.2mm Lev turd. Drops beautifully, is nice and smooth, but the return speed. Ugh. My bad for not researching beforehand enough to realize the 27.2mm is non adjustable in the speed department. Will give it a ride or two and see how it goes, but I'm not thinking highly of it so far. 

Instructions followed meticulously. Seat collar/clamp not too tight. Cable tension good. 

Was to replace a near 8 year old Gravity Dropper Turbo post. It's on my 27.2mm post size Chromag hardtail frame, so options are limited. Not that it's a big factor, but weight was a wash. By the time it was all installed, old and new post setups where within 10gm. of one another. 

Have asked where I bought it about a refund or swap to a new GD Turbo LP post. Shoulda' just bought one of those anyhow; costs less, is more reliable, even if it's only got three stops and a cludgy remote lever. 

Otherwise, if I'll sell the thing off and just go back to the old post and order up a new Turbo LP instead. Grrrrrrr!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Alright. I've updated the original post with an added warning and the exploded view with seal measurements. 

Enjoy,
-Chris


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Thanks for that. Mine has worked perfect for 4 rides now.....hopefully it survives true cold as well, but the coldest it has seen so far is about +5C. 

Also, when Chris says to point it away from your face when removing cap from the cartridge with snap ring pliers he really means it - it shot out and sprayed oil everywhere for me. Maybe I hadn't really gotten all of the air out? Anyway, I did this step outdoors and I'm glad I did (and glad I wasn't near my bike so it didn't spray oil on the brake rotors).


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

scrublover said:


> Caveat emptor...
> 
> I just ended up with a 27.2mm Lev turd. Drops beautifully, is nice and smooth, but the return speed. Ugh. My bad for not researching beforehand enough to realize the 27.2mm is non adjustable in the speed department. Will give it a ride or two and see how it goes, but I'm not thinking highly of it so far.
> 
> ...


You can speed up your post if you use 2.5wt oil. That would travel through the ports with less friction than the stock oil. This is what I did to my KS Dropzone. It was a noticeable increase in speed.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

scottg said:


> Thanks for that. Mine has worked perfect for 4 rides now.....hopefully it survives true cold as well, but the coldest it has seen so far is about +5C.
> 
> Also, when Chris says to point it away from your face when removing cap from the cartridge with snap ring pliers he really means it - it shot out and sprayed oil everywhere for me. Maybe I hadn't really gotten all of the air out? Anyway, I did this step outdoors and I'm glad I did (and glad I wasn't near my bike so it didn't spray oil on the brake rotors).


Yeah, even if you get all the pressure out, if air is trapped in the oil chamber, there can be some significant pressure build up it seems.



Laterilus said:


> You can speed up your post if you use 2.5wt oil. That would travel through the ports with less friction than the stock oil. This is what I did to my KS Dropzone. It was a noticeable increase in speed.


He's got the 27.2 which we have yet to crack the code on disassembly and air recharge so won't work for him/her unless he/she can figure how to dismantle and recharge.

-Chris


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## jojotherider (May 20, 2009)

I'm now taking a ride in the sagging lev boat with you guys.

Quick question before intake apart my seat post tomorrow. When you first put this thread together, we're you just rebuilding without replacing seals? I have a ride coming up this weekend and won't have time to order the o-rings. This is of course assuming that the o-rings in my post are ok.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

No seals were replaced when I started this thread and those posts are still working fine. Even my 100 mm LEV with a trashed IFP inner seal rode smoothly for at least 3 months each time. If you've got a ride coming up, I'd try it for sure. 

-Chris


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

I didn't replace any seals at all when I did this procedure and it has worked perfectly for a couple of hundred KM. The procedure took me quite a bit of time because I worked very slowly the first time, but if I have a problem again then I'm sure I could get it done very quickly.


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## Highlander944 (Aug 12, 2013)

Subscribe...


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

*27.2 blues*

Ordered this: 
Fox Polaris RZR Arctic Cat Nitrogen Fill Adapter Motion Pro Style Needle O8 0075 | eBay

and found a 14mm hex socket.

Hopefully, I'll be able to strip down and rebuild my 27.2 KS lev. Stay tuned.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice. Definitely keep us updated. 

-Chris


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Is the i900 basically the same as the Supernatural? My friend has one that's not working and I'm wondering if I can expect the same internals. It's not sinking though, it just won't drop at all.....I'm not sure if anyone has had that issue before?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I900 and I950 are alternate names for the Supernatural and Dropzone. Not sure which is which but I think the internals are the same for both of them. I have the exploded view somewhere in this thread. Service is a little more involved but totally doable. I contemplated doing a separate thread with step-by-step on it as well. If you do decide to tackle it, I'm happy to answer questions if you run into any issues. I've had great success with servicing them. Just a couple of differences from the LEV. 

If you haven't already, try activating the lever under the saddle manually to see if the post drops (which would indicate that the cable just needs to be adjusted). It could be a cartridge problem though. Keep in mind there is no place to release the pressure prior to opening the cartridge so lots of caution needs to be taken when opening it. There are other tips I can give you if you decide to try it. Just let me know. 

Good luck


-Chris


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## gregg (Sep 30, 2000)

***ATTENTION: Manufacturer Warning***

I have been contacted by the manufacturer and they have urged me to add this warning to this thread on their behalf:
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"The procedure explained by the user in this thread is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and could result in severe injury or death to the person performing this. These warnings are also clearly stated on our website and in our manuals. This posting may cause some consumers to disregard our warnings and severely injure themselves attempting this procedure listed."

"We at KS USA do NOT endorse the servicing of the oil system, it is factory sealed, and not to be opened by the user as the internals are under EXTREME PRESSURE!"

"We offer a 2 year warranty on our products, so if a customer is having an issue, they can send the post in to us and we will REPLACE the cartridge at no charge under warranty. If it is outside of the warranty period, the consumer can purchase a new cartridge assembly thru their local dealer."

----------
This was sent to me by Mike Alferez from KS USA.

Due to the length and size of this thread, I will also be adding this warning into the text of the original post at the top of this thread.

Thank you for your attention.

-Gregg, Site Manager Mtbr.com


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks Gregg,

I've also added an additional warning to Step #10 (opening the cartridge), advising to read the manufacturer's warning prior to attempting. The last thing I want is for anyone to get injured.

Thanks,
-Chris


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

That warning is so worth a chuckle. IMO, if you can deal with a stuck down shock or similar rebuild on a fork, you're capable of doing this service. Quite honestly, I'd be flaming KS for a POS product if not for the instructions in this thread. LEV is sort of a lemon given how many failures on something that isn't supposed to be user-serviceable plus KS turn-around on issues is notoriously slow; actually, the two times I contacted them - no response and the other it took well over a week or two to get a reply.


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

Finally fixed my 27.2 LEV damper!

The strip down was fairly straightforward (see previous posts). You will need a 14mm hex socket though. The problems were trying to rid the damper of all air and reinflating the IFP to 200-250psi. For this you will need a charging needle with a Schrader end (this is used for charging moto and fox shocks with nitrogen and is available from ebay)

Anyway, here goes.

1. Strip down the seatpost as described above in previous posts. Till you get this:



The grey half contains the IFP. The gold half the damper. The small inner tube encloses the pushrod for the actuator.

2. unscrew and separate the gold part from the grey part - Warning: OIL spillage.

3. Carefully pull out the inner tube from the gray IFP tube: Warning!!! AIR will escape. Cover it with a rag and wear eye protection.

4. Take your 14mm hex socket and unscrew the silver cap from the gray IFP tube. Note the tiny little air hole. We will deal with you later.

5. You can now see the black IFP (internal floating piston) inside. Push this out from the threaded side of the gray IFP tube with a dowel.



Gold Damper tube:

6. While pushing down on the pushrod and the tiny actuator cap, pull out the small inner tube, together with the damper valve, out of the gold damper tube. Oil spillage. This is the damper valve.


With this, the damper and IFP are fully stripped down. Check for O-ring damage and replace if necessary. On my part, ALL my o-rings were good.

Rebuild!

7. Stand or clamp the damper upright, and fill near to the top with oil. I used 2.5wt since I wanted a faster return. While pressing the actuator with the pushrod, insert the damper and inner tube into the damper tube. Oil should migrate from the bottom of the damper to above the damper itself. Don't insert it all the way. Just enough so that the damper is flush with the tube and seals the oil inside and then some.

8. Screw in the gray IFP tube into the gold damper tube. Don't snug it up tight yet.

9. Fill the assembly (gold and gray) to the brim with oil from the IFP side. Then push the IFP into the IFP tube. (oil spillage).



10. Now the tricky part. You wont be able to push the IFP in any farther because behind it is all the oil, full to the brim, with hopefully no air. There must be some way to bleed the oil out as you push the IFP down to the end of the IFP tube. I haven't found any valve or hole for this. So I unscrewed the gray IFP tube from the gold damper tube a couple of threads (not completely!) enough to allow oil to leak out/bleed out as I pushed in the IFP all the way to the end. 


11. I used a ball end allen wrench and worked my way gently but firmly around the IFP while pushing. (OIL spillage). Once the IFP is down in the tube, tighten the dray IFP tube onto the gold damper. Snug it up. I didn't bother to tighten it in the vice. Hand tight, with a rubber glove will do.

12. Screw in the silver 14mm hex cap by hand. Problem here. You wont be able to tighten this with your hex socket, since the inner actuator tube is in the way. And don't push the actuator tube in or it will displace the oil and push the IFP back up. So I just tightened it by hand as far as I could and used a soft vice or channel locks to grab the tiny silver edges. At the very least, the o ring should completely disappear into the gray tube and the lip should sit flush.

13. The hard part. Inflating/Pressurizing the IFP.

First, I tried this ghetto idea from a friend using a Schrader valve from an old tube, a needle, and patch kits. No luck. 


So I ordered this:

Fox Polaris RZR Arctic Cat Nitrogen Fill Adapter Motion Pro Style Needle O8 0075 | eBay

Even then, the stock needle was too fat to fit in the extremely tiny hole in the silver cap. I tried using a smaller needle, but it was too loose and the air would escape. I tried to use rubber tape, electric tape, glue, Loctite, etc. to provide a seal. Around 7 trashed tiny needles later, still no air in the IFP. 
Finally, using the stock (fatter) needle (it's a 0.75mm size, if Im not mistaken), I filed the end down and trimmed the taper off the point. Filing a tiny needle point is tricky business. The point went in and the tight fit created a seal. I was able to pressurize to around 200 psi. Eureka!!!

14. Rebuild the post.

15. After rebuilding and testing in the work stand, I was disappointed to note that the post would only go up halfway. It was faster, but wouldn't go full up. I figured since I had an easy trail ride tomorrow, I'll use it anyway. I installed it on my bike and rode around the neighborhood for a bit. Lo and behold, it started functioning normally. I guess it will have to "break in" a bit after rebuilding. Longer real trail test run tomorrow.

Some key points:

a.	Keep the inner actuator tube/damper all the way out when rebuilding the damper and pressurizing the IFP. 
b.	The cap at the top of the seatpost (near the saddle clamp area) is removable. If you extend the seatpost by pulling up on it without actuating the valve, this cap could get sucked in and you will lose oil. 


It happened to me while I was fiddling around with the post, but it could happen if, for instance, you pull up on the saddle with the post down. DON'T PULL UP on the saddle!

I hope this helps.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice work, cobym2. That post is quite a bit different than the standard LEV. It does seem like there's likely an easier/better way to add the oil without having to partially unthread it. I have some thoughts/questions to try to clarify things for us all:

1. It's a little confusing to picture how everything comes together with this post, but basically, what I'm gathering is that the IFP stays within the silver chamber, and the damper stays inside the gold chamber. Is that right?

2. This is obviously an area that differs considerably from the standard LEV which has a tube inside a tube, creating 1 chamber inside of another. In the standard LEV, the oil moves from one chamber to the next when the damper is activated and displaces the oil. This moves the IFP. Then, when you open the damper with the saddle unweighted, the air pressure forces the IFP to push the oil back into the other chamber. In my early stages of figuring out how to recharge my LEV, I made the mistake of assuming that the entire thing was filled to the brim with oil and that the air chamber was created afterward by pressurizing it. What I found later was that you actually leave the chamber on one side of the IFP empty and then increase the pressure in that chamber with the pump later. Which leads me to comment/question #3.

3. Is it possible, that you need to simply fill the gold portion with oil to the brim, insert the damper into the oil (only to the minimum insertion necessary), then screw on the silver portion with the IFP already inside it and slid all the way down toward the threaded portion? If I'm picturing this correctly, it would make sense because you'll then be adding air to the sliver chamber on the non-oil side of the IFP (based on where I can see the needle hole in monocles' earlier post). Then, when the post is activated, the oil will move from the gold chamber, to the silver chamber while pushing the IFP toward the pressurized region. This leads me to #4.

4. If #3 works, then it also seems that you could re-assemble in reverse order of your disassembly. This would mean that you could use the 14 mm hex to thread the cap back on BEFORE you screw the 2 chambers back together which would avoid the awkwardness of trying to tighten that cap around the internal tube. Then you would finish up by pressurizing and likely not experience any "break in" period before working properly (this sounds very similar to when I over did it with the oil in the learning stages of servicing my LEV).

Let me know if I'm picturing this post correctly and if you think the suggestions may work. If you do end up going back into your post, could you get some more pictures for clarification? 

Anyway, enjoy your riding, keep us all updated on how things are going, and thanks again for contributing to the thread with the "odd ball" LEV breakdown.

Thanks,
-Chris


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

Thanks cakelly. Just to answer some of your questions, Ive made a crude drawing of the mechanics of the 27.2 post.



Basically, the damper acts as a gate for the oil. As you press down on the post, the internal tube/rod will not move if the gate is closed since oil will have to migrate to somewhere. AS you press the valve of the damper open, this allows oil to flow to the other side of the damper (towards the IFP). The volume of the internal rod/actuator tube will displace a certain amount of oil, which will then push against the IFP, creating more pressure in the air chamber. 
If you close the valve (release the switch), the damper/gate will keep the oil from rushing back towards the end. As you open the valve and stand up, the higher pressure in the air chamber will force the IFP down, and in turn force the oil to flow through the damper/gate, and thus push the rod and the seatpost up. Took me a while to get it.



cakelly4 said:


> 1. It's a little confusing to picture how everything comes together with this post, but basically, what I'm gathering is that the IFP stays within the silver chamber, and the damper stays inside the gold chamber. Is that right?
> 
> Yes, thats right.
> 
> ...


Q3 and 4: 
There is a gap between the gold and silver tubes and a thick "lip" in the silver tube that prevents the IFP from going through to the gold tube. This gap and lip means that even if I top up the gold tube, once I screw in the silver/gray tube, there will be air. This was exactly what I did at first, but realized there was some air on the other side. I figured that, while Im no expert, in my previous experiences of IFP and oil shocks, there shouldnt be oil where there is air, and there shouldnt be air where there is oil. Im not sure if the post will work with a little air in the oil side, but I decided not to take that risk.

Also, when I try to screw in the silver/gray tube with the IFP and silver hex cap already in, the internal tube will end up pushing the IFP back up towards the cap, meaning more air is introduced. If I leave the cap off and push on the IFP while screwing in the silver tube, there is still some air in the oil and I wont be able to use the hex to tighten the cap since the tube is in the way again. I figured that out around the 7th attempt to rebuild. Haha 

That breakdown was oddball indeed, and Im sure there was a generous sprinkling of luck in there too. Just hoping this might help some desperate 27.2 Lev owners out there. I'll try to get some more pics. I have a friend who also has a 27.2 lev and its starting to act up.


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

I just realized my already crude drawing is upside down. Oh well. 

As an update, I rode with the post today and it worked perfectly. Before the rebuild, it wouldnt come all the way up and if ever, very slowly. Now you can hear that reassuring metallic click as the post snappily tops out.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice! I agree that there's nothing like the sensation of hearing that post slam all the way up. Glad it's working well. 

Thanks for clarifying things with the diagram. I agree you definitely don't want air in the oil chamber and can see now how that would happen if you installed the IFP prior to filling with more oil. In another thread (by monocles), I noticed that there's a hole on the side of the gold portion near where the silver portion threads in. Any idea what that's all about? Could this be a hole to add oil before it's threaded down completely? Now you've got me wanting to get my hands on one of these 27.2s Haha. Thanks again for your work. Let us know if you fix up your buddy's post.

-Chris


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

cakelly4 said:


> In another thread (by monocles), I noticed that there's a hole on the side of the gold portion near where the silver portion threads in. Any idea what that's all about? Could this be a hole to add oil before it's threaded down completely?
> 
> -Chris


Hmm. I never noticed such a hole on my post. Might just be my failing eyes. Will look into that again.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

cakelly4 said:


> Nice! I agree that there's nothing like the sensation of hearing that post slam all the way up. Glad it's working well.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying things with the diagram. I agree you definitely don't want air in the oil chamber and can see now how that would happen if you installed the IFP prior to filling with more oil. In another thread (by monocles), I noticed that there's a hole on the side of the gold portion near where the silver portion threads in. Any idea what that's all about? Could this be a hole to add oil before it's threaded down completely? Now you've got me wanting to get my hands on one of these 27.2s Haha. Thanks again for your work. Let us know if you fix up your buddy's post.
> 
> -Chris


Chris- if you are looking for a 27.2 to tear apart and rebuild, I will gladly send you mine. You know, for posterity's sake.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. Alshead, that's tempting. Is yours actually sagging/broken currently? Obviously, I'd be terrified of damaging something owned by someone I don't know but if it's broken already and you don't want to go through warranty...

-Chris


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

not broken, not sagging. Just terribly slow on the return.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hmmm. Was it fast when you got it? When I've had a post become sluggish in the past, the first thing I do is check the internal link cable - once this becomes stretched/broken/slipped, the activation isn't complete, the damper doesn't open all the way, and it becomes slow to go up and/or down. If it's always been slow, a thinner oil in the cartridge (I use 5 wt.) +/- more air pressure may make it quicker. I'd be happy to take a stab at it IF you clearly understood there could be more problems afterwards than when you started (if things go sour).


-Chris


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

I bought it used and it's always come up slow. It's 27.2, so no external adjustment. I'm going to put a light layer of Slick Honey on it to see if that helps at all, but beyond that, I don't really want to mess with it. Now that the snow is falling, I could part with it for a little while and send it off if you want to rebuild it for me. I could pay for the nitro cartridge or whatever, and know that something may go terribly wrong...


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

OK. If that's the case, go ahead and get the nitrous kit and you can ship it to me with the post. I'm happy to take a stab at it. When you get it all packaged up, shoot me a PM and I'll get you my address. 

-Chris


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I want to thank you for this thread! THANKS! My LEV was in a box, waiting for RA number to ship for service. I did basic service, not entire tear down/oil step because of this thread. Post works great, one question. Now, if my entire weight is on post, and I press remote, the saddle does not go down easy or fast. If I UNWEIGHT saddle for a split second, it goes down fine. It's been finicky for 2 weeks, now works great, but I can't remember if it's supposed to go down if weighted before hitting lever? Thanks everyone.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Glad it's working better for you. What was the reason for getting ready to return it? The finicky up and down? 

Anyway, what you're describing sounds like your internal cable is just slightly stretched/too long/slipped a little. Once this occurs, the damper doesn't get opened entirely and you start to get some lag in response. In the past, mine tends to do this first, then gradually gets worse. In fact, I literally just replaced my internal cable because it started doing this (and it irritates me to not be perfect). So if you have some kite string or the actual link cable, it's totally worth trying. I like the kite string because if you F it up the first time, you've got an entire spool to keep trying. Eventually you'll get really good at replacing it and getting the perfect length. Then go for the original cable if you prefer. 

Let us know how it goes.

-Chris


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

The original problem, after about 50 hours of use from new, was: Thursday, I was on unfamiliar trail, 50 feet climb, 50 foot decsend, repeat for 1 hour, up down up down. Very frustrating, as I had never needed a dropper post more (aside from gnar downhills). Press lever, would not go down. Noticed if weight on nose of saddle it would go down. If weight on rear of saddle, stuck up. Also, felt gritty. The grit may have caused scratches on included photo.

Then took it apart for service, bottom cup was 1/3 full of water too. I Probably added too much Slick Honey, re assembled. Now it was stuck up, and would return on its own. Totally botched. I think all of this may have been grease, and as you noted, STRING.

Then I found your DIY, took apart, cleaned etc. I adjusted string tighter (will order new string, pellet, barrel tonight). Seems almost perfect now. But I can't remember if I am sitting on seat, if I press lever, is it supposed to go down weighted? Or split second stand up and re sit?


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

2 quick notes, I rotated post so those scratches are in different spot. Also, bottom cup was loose by 2 threads (2mm or so), and 1/3 full of water.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

It should drop when you're weighting the seat in any position when it's working properly.

That all makes perfect sense actually. Water in there will tend to make it feel pretty terrible. I used to have this happen often as I didn't practice much care when washing the bike (be careful with the hose when cleaning). I periodically remove the bottom cap to check for water now after washes or wet rides.

If the bottom cap unthreaded a little, that is what likely caused your cable to stretch/slip. All of your weight is resting on a tiny ridge inside that end cap. The silver actuator assembly has a small ridge that rests on the black ridge in the cap. If the cap is backed out a little, the actuator drops with it and the cable gets pulled. The water will make it feel gritty but the partial activation of a stretched internal cable will also sometimes feel super gritty.

Here's how I get a really accurate cable length:

1. Remove old cable, clean post, etc. etc.

2. Attach end barrel to one end of new cable with the isolator pellet and grub screw. Tighten it up all the way with the end of the cable flush to the edge of the hole in the barrel.

3. Pass the other end of the cable down the black shaft of the post and seat it in the groove where it belongs and tape it to the outside of the post.

4. Re-assemble the post as directed, thread on your actuator assembly and tighten it (be careful not to over tighten), and align the pulley wheel up with the groove that the cable is seated in.

5. Place another end barrel on the cable, install the isolator pellet and grub screw BUT only partially tighten the grub screw so it grips the cable slightly but can be slid up and down the cable still.

6. At the junction box, hook up the little claw to the end barrel in there and position it like you do normally but be sure the external remote barrel adjustor is all the way loose so there's no tension on it (I bought an extra claw to use during service and just drop it in there so the barrel is seated in the proper place)

7. Attach the semi-loosened barrel into the actuator lever. Hold the excess cable and slide the barrel up the cable to snug the lever right up against the actuator piston head - nice and snug but not depressing it.

8. Tighten the grub screw. Cut the excess cable with wire cutters (I usually leave approx. 5 mm extra cable in case I need to back it off a little but rarely happens with this technique).

9. Finish up as directed.

Hope this helps. Keep us updated.

-Chris


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Awesome. I felt like old cable was too loose. It just seems too slack, but it was correct length according to KS video. Your technique should work way better when my parts order arrives. The part where you explain my weight on string stretching when bottom cap unscrewed is scary. I guess people should check these over when new, I just threw it on. Thanks for taking the time to post this.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. Hope this works well for you but if not, I'm happy to help if I can.

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

hoolie, looks like you might be riding in some pretty dirty conditions to get scratches like that, but it makes sense where you got them on your post. 

I would definitely replace your brass keys, the DU bushing and the dust wiper in this situation. If the post looks like that, then those parts are certainly shot as well. Thankfully KS sells all of those parts pretty cheap. I drench the brass keys and DU bushing area with Slick honey. 

Lastly, I would definitely wipe down the post after every ride. Something in the dirt in your area is really doing a number on your post. I think it would be best to keep it as clean as possible so it will last longer.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

NORCAL moon dust, no rain. Also granite dust in Tahoe, Downieville, Sierra Nevada in general. That granite is like glass dust. I clean with soapy wet rag every ride, then rinse rag, even if I don't wash bike (got into this habit to prolong life of fork/shock seals). I think the problem was washing bike upside down when traveling, and KS factory left bottom cap loose from new, so muddy water would migrate to post if washed upside down. I will do No more of that. After cakelly4 mentioned Kevlar tension, I ordered a bunch of parts, and decided not to use post today, as I had repressed DU bushing/copper inside ring, back together. I'm afraid I may scratch stanchion, so WILL wait for DU bushing as you say, and toss old one. I didn't realize it was ruined if separated? Dust wiper is good call though, even though mine seems fine, I may add to order tonight for $6 more. 

I never got outside half of DU bushing out. So I will try the Channel Lock twist. I wish there was a better solution for that step. Post works great now, but as I said, I'm replacing a few more parts before I ruin stanchion, with RE PRESSED, DU bushing.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

The good news is that the "channel lock twist" technique is really only necessary if you're not servicing the post often (because it seizes). Once you get the new one, it will pop out fairly easily the standard way (firm pull) but I keep a couple spares on hand just in case. If I feel like it's been a while since I've serviced it, I just give it a light twist with the channel locks to be sure it's not seized, then give the firm pull. I put a little slick honey lining the dust wiper as an added barrier to water and all around the DU bushing to keep it from seizing before the next service. 

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Also, getting the entire DU bushing out will allow you to degrease and re-grease the one way roller bearings which can also trap some grit. 

Good luck
-Chris


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## Hokidachi (Feb 7, 2012)

Hello,

While trying to remove the actuator I ended up scratching the inner shaft. Turns out that the piece of rubber I used to get more grip was too soft.
Looking at that scratch, can anybody tell me if this is going to prevent my Lev to function properly? Will I notice anything when using my dropper on trails?

Thanks!

Hoki


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

It's orientation being perpendicular to the shaft might save you from experiencing an issue. I'd be concerned about the raised, rough edges that could/will cause issue as it runs through a seal surface. If there is a way to polish that so it doesn't catch as it passes through a seal but doing so without creating more damage, I'd try and do it.


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## Abagrizzli (May 28, 2012)

Polish it with a fine sand paper. Rough edges will damage seals, and this will cause to constant leakage. But in general I'd say to replace the shaft.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I would treat this similarly to a scratched fork stanchion. Very fine grit sand paper can be used to take the sharp edges off but needs to be done very carefully. My wife's kashima fork was scratched at one point and this is what Fox recommended to do. I believe she used 320 grit sand paper (if that's a thing) and lightly buffed it. This will prevent the scratch from damaging the seals it passes through. Good luck. That's a bummer that this happened. On the KS website, they now show a special (possibly home made) soft jaw that they use to hold this shaft. It's on the video for how to adjust cable position on the LEV DX - LEV DX - How to Adjust Your Cable Routing Direction - YouTube Seems KS has realized that simply grabbing it with the strap wrench doesn't really work. If anyone can tell me where to find a tool like this, please let me know. I have not been able to find one and it looks more home-made to me. Seat post quick release lever combined with something soft-jaw-like.

Chris


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

I apologize because its slightly off topic, and I posted a similar query on the Reverb thread.

Trying to get input on KS Lev ( Integra specifically ) vs the Reverb. Chris appears to be the master of the KS, and we have Laterilus from the Reverb thread both posting here. Thoughts on which is better from a reliability stand point?

I certainly like the cable remote actuator better than the hyrdo on the reverb.

I'm not sure, but the KS maint. actually looks harder to do? ( i suppose you get good at whichever...)

Also, what impact will the Integra have - obviously the cable attaches at a different point , what other differences are there?

thanks in advance. (and double thanks to the two masters of suspension seat post maintenance, cakelly4 and Laterilus )


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## vicrider222 (May 2, 2011)

cakelly4 said:


> I would treat this similarly to a scratched fork stanchion.
> 
> Chris


I don't think you can compare the scratch above to a scratch on a fork stanchion. A fork stanchion only glides through nylon bushings in the fork lowers, and picks up a little bit of bath oil splashing around in the lowers. So a scratch on the outer Lev stanchion would be more equivalent to a fork stanchion scratch.

This scratch is more equivalent to a scratch on a fork air shaft or damper shaft inside the fork. These slide in an out of the fork stanchions through an O-ring where a complete seal is critical. My opinion is that since the Lev inner shaft slides through a very tight quad ring this scratch will cause immediate issues in the current state. Even if there is no direct leak as the scratch passes through the quad ring, the scratch cavity will act as a transport vehicle that will move a little bit of air or oil out of the cartridge with every post extension.

To rescue it I would *gently* wet sand the edges of the scratch down with very fine grit sand paper (I'd start with 1000 or higher, then start dropping to say 800 or 600 if 1000 wasn't doing anything). Then I would use a gap filler of sorts to fill the scratch, then wet sand and polish to restore the original shape. Can't recommend specific fillers, but I would stay away from porous types since you are trying to restore the original metal like finish for a proper tight seal with the quad ring. Maybe modeler's putty that cures to hard smooth plastic like finish, or experiment with some car body fillers.

A lot of people use nail polish to fill fork stanchion scratches, but probably not for scratches this deep.

Towards the top of this thread I posted that I was able to unscrew the actuator by just gripping the inner Lev shaft with my hand wearing a latex glove to provide friction. I was lucky to break the threadlock bond that way. That was the first service on my Lev and the threads had some sort of white thread locker on it.

On reassembly I cleaned the threads completely and used blue wax stick based thread lock instead (Locktite 248). Again I only hand tightened everything on reassembly (twist as hard as you can with your hands). My opinion is that you do not need any more torque to re-tighten the actuator in the shaft than what your latex gloved hands can generate. Any more torque will create a risk of shearing off the hollow threaded part of the actuator. And given how critical a smooth finish on the inner shaft is, I prefer to keep any type of tools away from it. I wouldn't even use the soft metal jaws used in some of the KS videos. Unless you've used them a lot already there is a high risk that you will either over tighten them and score your shaft anyway, or not have them tight enough allowing the shaft to accidentally turn in the jaws and get scored again.

A few months and several rides after reassembling with blue thread lock I went to service the Lev again. This time I could not break the bond with my hands at all. Maybe because I used a generous amount of thread lock (I filled all threads on both the actuator and in the shaft completely), or maybe because it is stronger than the white factory stuff. So the good thing about that was that I have proven that hand tightening with blue threadlock on reassembly is all you need for your Lev to stay in one piece and operate fine till your next service. The bad thing was I now had to find another way to unscrew the actuator. Again I felt like I was already applying so much twisting force just with my hands, that using tools to generate more and risk breaking the actuator was not an option (there have been reports of the threaded part of the actuator twisting off).

So I took out the good old heat gun to soften the thread lock. I set it to around 200-220C (390-420F), heated up the actuator and within 30secs was able to break the bond with my hands with much less force than what I used to originally tighten it. Strictly speaking I don't like using heat on precision components either, but I had no choice here. Fortunately there are no plastic, rubber or other heat sensitive parts in this region. I was a little concerned about the coating on the inner stanchion, but I was probably just paranoid. Now, do not heat it up like you're trying to set it on fire either. Point the heat gun on the actuator from the bottom so all the heat is concentrated there and travels up towards the threaded part. That way the majority of the shaft will stay cool so you can grip it with your latex glove clad hand. Wave the heat gun nozzle past the actuator for say 10-15 secs at a time then put it down and try unscrewing it. If necessary go with the heat gun for another 15secs or so. Wear a kitchen mitt on the hand that will touch the actuator so you don't burn yourself.

This is pretty much how I intend to work with this thing going forward (blue threadlock, tool free assembly with latex glove, then heat gun+latex glove+kitchen mitt to disassemble), ...until someone recommends a better solution.


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## Hokidachi (Feb 7, 2012)

Thanks "Oh My Sack!", Abagrizzli and vicrider222. Also a special thanks to Chris for this post and the ongoing support!

That's indeed a bummer that I scratched the inner shaft... I'm going to wet sand the scratch, apply nail polish (to start with) and wet sand the whole thing again. Hopefully this will work ok.

Depending on the result, I'll have to change the whole part (oil pressure stick/hydraulic cartridge, reference A3105-XXX). I found one on eBay for about $100...

Hoki


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome, Hoki and good luck. Please keep us updated on how things turn out. 

slcpunk, I haven't had any experience with the Integras but imagine that the cartridge (oil stick) is the same as a typical LEV. As far as I know, only the 27.2 is different there. Not sure how the initial break down compares (maybe someone could post some pics here on the breakdown leading up to the cartridge). 

Laterilus can probably shed some light on how the KS cartridge compares to the Reverb as far as ease of maintenance and/or reliability. It's actually pretty straight forward maintenance for the KS. One thing that has always turned me off to the reverb is a hydraulic remote. I really don't feel like having to bleed anymore components on my bike than I have to. Also, since my bike doesn't have internal routing for a dropper, it was a no brainer (I will never do "under-the-saddle" attached cables again). With the integra, I imagine you won't have to deal with the internal link cable which eliminates the majority of the problems that I've had with my first LEV (took a while to get the best technique for proper length) so that's a plus. KS customer support seems to be less than ideal these days and I imagine that's one area where the Reverb will shine. Wish I could help you more. I think they're both great posts. And I think one is a good company as well. 

Vicrider, FWIW, I don't use any thread locker and just firmly hand tighten the actuator. I've never had any actuators come loose between maintenance breakdowns. I've heard of people breaking the threads off in there and don't want to chance it.

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Chris, these are the ones that I use

Lisle 48000 Aluminum Vise Jaw Pad https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FMM6NW/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_ow8zub0X43QC9

I use these for all sorts of shafts for my dropper posts and my forks. They work perfectly. The aluminum is very soft. It easily mars and conforms around the shaft you are working with. I have yet to harm a shaft from a post or fork using these for 3 years now.


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## Hokidachi (Feb 7, 2012)

An update on the scratched inner shaft. I sanded the edges of the scratch with an 800 grit sandpaper. I then filled the scratch with a nice blush nail polish and let it dry all night. This morning, I sanded again with the 800 grit and then finished with a 2000 grit (I did not have 1000). I think it turned out ok, the scratch feels smooth now…

Now, the reason why I took my Lev appart is because it was stuck in the extended position… When I removed the actuator (step 5 and 6) , there was a lot of oil coming out of the inner shaft. In fact, there wasn’t that much oil left in the cartridge (step 13).
So I suspect that some o-rings/quad-rings had to be replaced and ordered all the ones that Chris listed in the seal specs... hopefully that’s the reason why the Lev would not compress…

Update: Just found that there was still some oil in the cartridge. It went out when I removed the valve assembly. So, it sounds like I had about 1/5 of the total amount of oil in the inner shaft. Not sure if that's normal or not..

Hoki


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## rshalit (Oct 27, 2006)

so to loosen the top cap on a 2014 carbon LEV use a strap wrench? thanks!

(editing - I figured it out - strap wrench indeed - also found the bottom cap was loose and that solved the vertical play issue)


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## mark 73 (Jul 2, 2006)

First off let me say thank you to all the contributors of this thread for their effort in compiling this extremely useful information.

Now for my 2 cents. Fox uses whats called a bullet tool for sliding various shafts back through the corresponding inner seals. It slips into the open end of the shaft and has a tapered nose to stretch the quad ring evenly before slipping into position. IMO this would be the ideal way to reinstall the IFP w/o damaging the quad ring. The tricky bit would be finding/making such a tool in the right diameter.

The FOX one looks like this: Fox Shaft Bullet Tool | Fox Racing Shox


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Mark, That's a pretty cool tool. I've mastered the IFP installation using my pinky as that tool but it's a little tricky. I'll have to look into that. 

Laterilus, I have those soft jaws but never really thought about grabbing the inner shaft with them (mainly because the LEV body is being held with them). I'll have to try that in the future if I work on another one with tons of thread lock. Thanks!

Hoki, no oil should spill out when you remove the actuator. I'm wondering if the damper end of that shaft was unthreaded slightly (or a lot) - see step 13b in my thread. The damper can be removed to expose an o-ring that also may need to be replaced. Let me know how things go with your post. 

-Chris


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

cakelly4 said:


> slcpunk, I haven't had any experience with the Integras but imagine that the cartridge (oil stick) is the same as a typical LEV. As far as I know, only the 27.2 is different there. Not sure how the initial break down compares (maybe someone could post some pics here on the breakdown leading up to the cartridge).
> 
> Laterilus can probably shed some light on how the KS cartridge compares to the Reverb as far as ease of maintenance and/or reliability. It's actually pretty straight forward maintenance for the KS. One thing that has always turned me off to the reverb is a hydraulic remote. I really don't feel like having to bleed anymore components on my bike than I have to. Also, since my bike doesn't have internal routing for a dropper, it was a no brainer (I will never do "under-the-saddle" attached cables again). With the integra, I imagine you won't have to deal with the internal link cable which eliminates the majority of the problems that I've had with my first LEV (took a while to get the best technique for proper length) so that's a plus. KS customer support seems to be less than ideal these days and I imagine that's one area where the Reverb will shine. Wish I could help you more. I think they're both great posts. And I think one is a good company as well.
> -Chris


Chris,
Thanks so much for your input again. Totally agree on the bleeding of the remote. Starting to wonder if I should look harder at the Thomson covert elite. Best of both? I'm also worried about KS customer service. ( not that surprised, but no reply to my email questions about their product -- they must be very busy or just not have the time/desire to reply.

Anyway, thanks again.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. Good luck. If this is your first dropper, no matter what you get, I'm convinced it's the single best upgrade to a bike that money can buy. 

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Changed step 5 in the thread to demonstrate grasping the inner shaft with soft jaws and a rubber inner tube - definitely works better. Also added a picture to demonstrate the slight difference with dismantling the LEV Integra (2nd Generation). 

-Chris


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

cakelly4 said:


> Changed step 5 in the thread to demonstrate grasping the inner shaft with soft jaws and a rubber inner tube - definitely works better. Also added a picture to demonstrate the slight difference with dismantling the LEV Integra (2nd Generation).
> 
> -Chris


On that note, while looking at FIT Cartridge rebuild tips, I caught mention of a perfect tool for that task so I went and scooped one yesterday because it will work nicely on the small shaft. It's a rubberized softjaws used for grasping golf club shafts in a vise for regripping, etc. You can get them on Amazon for < $5 but I ran up to our local Roger Dunn Golf Shop 5 minutes from my house and paid $7. It'll handle shaft diameters from probably 1/4" up to maybe 3/4" possibly. Cheap insurance for prevention of destroying a very expensive, critical part. It's about 4-5" long so it should fit that span.


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## Racer999 (Nov 21, 2014)

Worked great but problem I am having is once seat post is back in bike and I connect the remote the seat will sag or when dropped it won,t stay down. I know it is bled because if the remote is not attached there is no sag at all. I took bottom cap/ put back on as instructed but not solving issue. Is it possible the little spring near the remote attachment is worn out and won't push the the cable up and relieve all of the pressure? Should the actuator/ cable / remote be covered in honey butter?Any suggestions are appreciated.


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## jojotherider (May 20, 2009)

I think you're right in that its something to do with that connection. Is there a specific way to attach the spring? Is there a barrel adjuster where you can loosen it more? Basically, something about that remote connection is causing the actuator to actuate.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

No, your issue is likely exclusive to the tension of the actuation cable. Pull the "KS" plastic cover off while everything is set up. Look at the actuator at the top of that chamber were the Kevlar is attached. You will likely see a little air gap above the actuator arm and that is indicating that it is not releasing to the top of it's stroke, thus allowing the stem to move freely. This can be corrected by first trying reducing tension with the barrel adjuster on the cable near the actuator lever. If not that or you don't have one, your cable is set to short. Try slightly relaxing the set screw on the seatpost end of the cable. This might allow just a bit to pull through relaxing some tension. Tighten it up and check that gap above, again. You should see it closing and the post will grab like it should.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

So I bought a used bike with a Supernatral 30.9mm post. At first the post worked good, but a little sticky so I unscrewed the red collar and added some Slick Honey around the post where it goes in. A quick ride around my yard and it seemed good. 

I took a ride in sub 30 degree weather and the post was slowly sinking. I made the mistake of pulling up on the seat, which seemed to make it worse. 20 minutes into the ride and the post was all the way down and if I pulled on the seat it felt like a vacuum was pulling it back down to fully lowered.

I found this thread and now I'm in the middle of a rebuild. I can't get the actuator assembly unscrewed from the post, I even tried some heat, still on there. I'm going to pick up some soft jaws, and a strap wrench, hopefully that will get it.

Thanks so much for this awesome thread of info, really appreciate it!


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

slcpunk said:


> I apologize because its slightly off topic, and I posted a similar query on the Reverb thread.
> 
> Trying to get input on KS Lev ( Integra specifically ) vs the Reverb. Chris appears to be the master of the KS, and we have Laterilus from the Reverb thread both posting here. Thoughts on which is better from a reliability stand point?
> 
> ...


Huh. I completely missed this question, and I love reading this thread!

Like I mentioned in the Reverb thread, my preference is the Reverb hydraulic remote. In my personal opinion, it bleeds so easy that it is no more extra maintenance than a cable operated system. Especially since it doesn't need maintenance as often as a cable (depending on your riding conditions). From a performance standpoint, I'm sticking to my guns here as well; The hydraulic remote is in a better ergonomic position and activates the post easier. Both systems work though so you really can't go wrong. I've been on a KS post now for 9 months and absolutely love it.

Internal post maintenance is a toss up. LoL. It really is. I would say both the Reverb and LEV (and supernatural) are equal in "frustration" when it comes to maintenance. The LEV has the extra step of the Kevlar cable. Considering that is a wear part and can add to maintenance frustration, that is a minus..... but then again, the cable doesn't go up and down with the post. I'm also not a fan of the bottom nut that is connected to the piston shaft on all KS posts. It takes some extreme care and focus to make sure you don't damage the piston shaft when removing this for the first time. This is also a minus. The Reverb comes apart and puts back together easier, in my opinion, but there are more parts because the entire post and remote are hydraulic. That means there are more o-rings that can fail. This is a negative for the Reverb. In addition, a HUGE negative of the Reverb is the internal seal head design. Both KS and Reverb use the exact same hydraulic design, but KS internal seal head is far superior, and honestly, I can't exactly figure out why. They should both work well, but my experience with the Reverb tells me otherwise. When the Reverb begins to do the dreaded sag, 75% of the time is due to the damn internal seal head unscrewing itself. It is infuriating. Why must it unscrew itself? Why?! the only way around this is to use vise grips, mar the hell out of the internal seal head and tighten that mofo down with all of your might. Then you can possibly get a year out of it before it unscrews itself. You use a pin spanner on the internal seal head for KS and that thing doesn't move once you tighten it. Period.

As far as the internal posts, I can only speak about the Reverb, but I feel like Chris' bleed method here is going to be very similar to the LEV integra.... just minus the Kevlar thread I think. Doing a post bleed on a Reverb stealth is...... unpleasant. First, the Reverb Stealth has the same damn problem as the normal Reverb. The internal seal head loves to unscrew itself. Secondly, the normal Reverb has a lot of parts. The stealth has even more. LOTS of extra stuff has to be taken apart and put back together to bleed the stealth. At least Rockshox now does the connectamajig thing so at least you don't have to re-bleed the remote or get oil all over the place when taking it apart. If I wanted an internal routed post, I think I would go with the LEV integra just because of maintenance.

You also mentioned the Thomson dropper post. I bet it is an awesome post, but let me be clear: All dropper posts fail. All of them. No way around it. It will most definitely fail. This thread is made for people that don't feel like dealing with manufacturers. If you are looking for customer service, then I know SRAM's is definitely good, and I would assume KS and Thomson are as well. I personally do not care about customer service. I want to ride. If I fix the problem myself, I'm riding much sooner than waiting for customer service. Secondly, the machine work and parts quality of both Rockshox and KS are excellent. People that say these posts are crap don't know how they work. The parts that fail have nothing to do with the manufacturers. It is ALWAYS a 5 to 25 cent o-ring if something has "officially" failed (unless of course you got your post filled with dirt and scratched the hell out of the internal parts). Because of this, I see no reason to send it into the manufacturer. There is a ton of documentation on how to service the KS posts and Rockshox. There is nothing on the Thomson. It uses a completely different design and no one that I've seen yet has opened one up. Until then, I would definitely stick with Rockshox or KS because you know for certain that the post can be fixed.

Hope this helps you in your decision.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Speaking of remotes, has anyone tried the new Specialized remote on a KS post? I think I would much prefer a 'shifter' style of remote to the standard KS remote.








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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Laterilus, you must not have seen the KS Southpaw:

Kind Shock Lev Southpaw Remote Lever

This may be exactly what you're looking for.

Ohmysack, that rubber soft jaw is perfect. Thanks.

Racer, you've got something going on with the internal cable. Sometimes it's as simple as being snagged on the small pulley on the actuator assembly. Just check to be sure it's riding in the groove of the pulley as well as the groove inside the black casing. If it's still not working, you may be able to loosen it like sack mentioned or simply redo it.

69tr6r, what actuator are you trying to unthread? On the supernatural, the most difficult part is getting the blue nut and red cap off the smaller shaft which can be done like the actuator is removed on the LEV. The other end (seat clamp end) doesn't need to be removed.

Phew. Lots of action on this thread today. Let me know if any more help is needed.

-Chris


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

cakelly4 said:


> Laterilus, you must not have seen the KS Southpaw:
> 
> Kind Shock Lev Southpaw Remote Lever
> 
> ...


I removed the blue nut and the red cap, and I was able to unthread the silver air cap, I emptied that air and oil from that tube. The middle gold colored tube that has the black rubber piece in the photo on page 1 of the Supernatural. That's the one that I can't remove, or even see the black rubber piece. I assumed I had to unthread the actuator assembly to get it out.

Are you saying all I need to do is grab that tube with some needle nose pliers and tug it out?

Thanks Chris.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yes. Cover the pliers with some rubber to protect the surface and pull. The IFP may be a little tricky to get but will slide down some by tapping, then use an Allen key carefully to grab it (if it doesn't come out with the tube). 

Keep us updated
-Chris


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Laterilus said:


> You also mentioned the Thomson dropper post. I bet it is an awesome post, but let me be clear: All dropper posts fail. All of them. No way around it. It will most definitely fail. This thread is made for people that don't feel like dealing with manufacturers. If you are looking for customer service, then I know SRAM's is definitely good, and I would assume KS and Thomson are as well. I personally do not care about customer service. I want to ride. If I fix the problem myself, I'm riding much sooner than waiting for customer service. Secondly, the machine work and parts quality of both Rockshox and KS are excellent. People that say these posts are crap don't know how they work. The parts that fail have nothing to do with the manufacturers. It is ALWAYS a 5 to 25 cent o-ring if something has "officially" failed (unless of course you got your post filled with dirt and scratched the hell out of the internal parts). Because of this, I see no reason to send it into the manufacturer. There is a ton of documentation on how to service the KS posts and Rockshox. There is nothing on the Thomson. It uses a completely different design and no one that I've seen yet has opened one up. Until then, I would definitely stick with Rockshox or KS because you know for certain that the post can be fixed.
> 
> Hope this helps you in your decision.


This. I loooooove my Reverbs (two Stealth, one regular) and am sorta "meh" on my one LEV. Granted it's the non-adjustable 27.2mm version...the frame it's in is limeted to that size

One of these days I'll take it apart and futz with it, or just put the old Gravity Dropper back on.

The GD posts may be on the clunky/cludgy side, and not as refined, but damn do they just plain work. They have issues now and again as well, but damn if they don't have the best track record at this point in terms of longevity and reliability.

Anyhow, the Reverbs are not too terrible if you're at all mechanically inclined/have the tools, and the function/remote is worth the once in awhile bleed/rebuild. The only issue I've had more than once is breaking the hose barb on the remote end with my knee in a hack riding moment. (running a right remote upside down on the left, under the bar) It's an easy and cheap part to fix, and I just keep a few in the spares bin. Even have one in the back of the car bike box, just in case. Can fix it out the back of the car, though the post won't work perfectly without a bleed.


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## Racer999 (Nov 21, 2014)

Ok, I got the kite string and re did that cable to actuator and solved my problem. Couple of notes, I followed ks instructions on measuring 15 mm but wasn't quite right so I attached to actuator with little barrel loose, eyed it up and tightened the barrel and that worked best. As far as loosening/ tightening end cap, I just placed the post in my seat tube about an inch in ( so threads still outside of seat tube) tightened seat post clamp and used seat to tighten/ loosen cap. I like that approach over holding post in one hand and using strab wrench on other. I would suggest that if you have time before bleeding to order all new seals and just replace as sucks to take time to fix and not work because of a cheap seal.
I have also worked on reverb and while slightly different if you understand Chris's approach it should work. Couple thoughts on reverb before you pull apart. First make sure remote hose is bled. Next make sure you are not just leaking area from where schrader valve attaches (put pump on and see if starts to lose pressure). If that is your problem pull cap off (tool for $2 from golf store worked great) put some plumbers tape on internal threads and retigten. If that isn't your issue next check to make sure where threads into seat post is not loose. For some reason that likes to come loose and air leaks out. I have also seen that seal getting pinch marks. I went to plumbing section of hardware store and got a slightly thicker o ring, lubed it up, pressed in making sure not to pinch or any part stuck out and that solved that issue. My first time throu before this reading this thread I put some nice scraches in actuator rode. I sanded it down, put nail polish on it, remanded and no issues ( it is not like a fork where it is constantly moving past seal).

I have nothing to support this but I think the lowest pressure you can use is best as less pressure should have less tendancy to blow past seal. Also I live at sea level but ride at 6000 feet a lot and in the past when putting bikes on rack I would compress post to make everything fit but I make sure not to do that any more as a compressed post must have higher compressed air as we move up in altitude and better chance for air to blow past seal especially if going into real cold air.
So when is some one coming out with none air/ oil seatpost (titanium spring?) with multiple positions so we don't have to spend time in the garage (and can we come up with an agreement to use only one bolt head size on entire bike?)
Thanks for everyone's comments/ help


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Is there a re-assembly procedure for the Supernatural somewhere in this thread? I have my post entirely apart and I can't figure out how to put it back together properly.

Specifically, where does the oil go? Inside the inner tube or outer tube, or both?

And what is the best method for adding air to the cartridge? I've tried the basketball needle with heatshrink tubing as well as electrical tape. Neither worked.

Thanks!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

There is a description in the main post under the section labeled differences of the supernatural. Basically, the air and oil chamber are slightly reversed compared with the LEV. You will want to assemble with the IFP pushed down all the way in. You're going to add oil to the inner tube only. To add air, I use an old piece of derailer cable housing. Use a knife to whittle away the outer shell, then strip the wires out, then save the inner plastic casing. Take a small piece of that plastic casing, insert it into the appropriate hole in the supernatural, then insert the ball inflater. 

Let me know how this goes. I can help more a little bit later.
-Chris


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

cakelly4 said:


> There is a description in the main post under the section labeled differences of the supernatural. Basically, the air and oil chamber are slightly reversed compared with the LEV. You will want to assemble with the IFP pushed down all the way in. You're going to add oil to the inner tube only. To add air, I use an old piece of derailer cable housing. Use a knife to whittle away the outer shell, then strip the wires out, then save the inner plastic casing. Take a small piece of that plastic casing, insert it into the appropriate hole in the supernatural, then insert the ball inflater.
> 
> Let me know how this goes. I can help more a little bit later.
> -Chris


I managed to get it all back together and I was able to add air, I think it was almost 150psi according to my shock pump. Of course it's a little hard to hold everything together, pump and read the gauge.

The post operates fine until I screw the red collar back on. Then the post hangs up, especially in the middle area. I took it all apart and lubed everything with slick honey and it's still the same.

Do you think I need more air?

Thank you much for the help.

**Edit** It's when the silver bushing that when placed back into the post causes some binding, not the red collar.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

One of two things could be happening. Or possibly both.

1. When you reassemble, you will want to tighten the red collar only partway, then depress the post, then finish tightening it. This will allow it to purge the air between the cartridge and the casing.

2. You may have damaged your DU bushing. For instance if it came apart on disassembly.

Check those two things, then get back to me.

Good luck.
-Chris


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

DU bushing looks good, no damage. I have a KS Eten post, and after a comparison, it takes much more force to compress the Eten post. I think I need to add more air to the Supernatural.

I'll try again with the air.

Thanks Chris.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. Hope it works out. I've been using the LEV range of 150-250 psi as a guideline for the Supernatural since the cartridge is essentially the same. Let us know how things turn out. 

-Chris


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

cakelly4 said:


> You're welcome. Hope it works out. I've been using the LEV range of 150-250 psi as a guideline for the Supernatural since the cartridge is essentially the same. Let us know how things turn out.
> 
> -Chris


I managed to get more air in the cartridge using a piece of heat shrink tubing, about 200 PSI. That did it! I'm so happy!

Thanks again!!!!


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

Questions for cakelly4 (or whomever can help) since you seem to be the expert. I've got a LEV DX. Rode it for about two months then noticed when fully extended, and even at other locations along the travel, when I press down on the seat the post moves about am 1/8-1/4 inch down. After I noticed this I sent the post back to KS for repair and I just received it back this past week. I test it before installing to make sure its fixed and everything is good. No more sag. I then install it on the bike, torque seat post clamp to 7 NM, hook up the lever and test drop/raise a few times and then notice that the same issue has returned. So I'm kind of pissed that it appears KS did not really "fix" it.

1. Is 1/8 inch drop when pressure is applied within tolerances for these posts?

2. If I were to follow the rebuild procedure myself is there any parts that I should replace so this doesn't happen again?

3. Do you think the rebuild + part replacement will fix my issue and is worth it? Seems odd that KS didn't fix the issue and I'm guessing all they did was the rebuild instead of replacing any parts. I don't want to waste my time if something internal needs replacement.

4. Has anyone had any luck contacting KS for technical support?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

HowardRoark

1. No. There should be no drop when the seat is weighted until you activate it.

2. I don't think you necessarily need to do this procedure (see below) however if you did, it's possible that zero parts would need to be replaced since typically a bleed of the system alone fixes the true sagging issue. HOWEVER, I did list all the o-ring specs in order to replace those since one or more could potentially be damaged causing a leak. *Again, I'm not sure you'll need to do any of this.

3. To me it sounds possible that you have a more simple problem. It's possible that you just need to adjust your external cable (the one from your bar to the post). I'm suspicious that it may be either hanging up slightly or just a little too tight.

Try the following:

A) Leave seat post on bike
B) Disconnect cable at the junction box
C) Weight the saddle and see if it still sinks. If it doesn't, it's your remote set up and should be an easy fix. If it does, I still have a few problem shooting areas before diving into the cartridge rebuild so just get back to me after you try this.

4. Back in the day, Ron Easton seemed to be pretty good about answering my questions over the phone (though sometimes took a few tries to get an answer). Now it appears that there is a canned response along the lines of "check with your local dealer to order parts, blah blah blah." At least that's what I got the last few times I attempted and multiple friends with KS posts heard when they attempted. We don't try anymore.

Check the above and get back to me.

Good luck
-Chris


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Kind Shock may be, no I'm sure, is THE WORST biking industry company for servicing their own products and customer service! I know of 4 people, personally that have sent their broken post in, only to get it back with the same problem. And trying to get ahold of them, HAAAHH! I have 4 of their post and the 150mm LEV that is just shy of a year old, just took a crap the other day, sagging close to an inch and a half, even with the trigger unhooked. 

I actually think I may go back to RockShox, at least they have good CS and will fix their broken products.


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks for the quick reply Chris. I should have mentioned in the original post that I did not have the cable connected at all and it still sags about an 1/8 inch. So that doesn't appear to be the issue, although I wish it were. 

I should also add that it only appears to sag when at full extension. I thought it was sagging at other points along the travel but that doesn't appear to be happening. I also tried setting the pressure to 130, 150, 200, and 250 psi but the sag appears to happen no matter the pressure.

Any help is much appreciated. Man, I love this dropper post but it's so lame that they still haven't figured out how to make them reliable (or fix them when you send them in to service).


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

HowardRoark,

Bummer. Initially, you stated that it didn't sag when you first got it. Have you tried removing it from the bike and testing it again (great way is on the garage floor or cement, etc.)? If it's sagging in and out of the bike, then there is a chance that the cartridge needs to be serviced as demonstrated here. ALTHOUGH - the other small possibility is that the internal cable is slightly too tight and therefore very slightly activating the post when it's at rest. I know you would think it would keep sinking in that situation but it doesn't always do that. 

Next thing to try:

1. Remove the post from the bike
2. Look closely at the bottom cap. Is it unthreaded slightly? If so, tightening it will likely solve your problem. If not move on to Step 3. 
3. Remove the bottom cap. (*DO NOT TRY TO PUSH THE POST DOWN ONCE IT'S REMOVED OR YOU'LL SNAP THE INTERNAL CABLE*)
4. Look at the actuator lever. It should be lightly touching the activator piston when your remote cable is not attached at the junction box. 
5. With the cap still removed, reattach your cable at the junction box. Look at the activator lever - it should be firmly against the piston WITHOUT depressing it. Remember not to try pushing the post down. It's OK if you activate it a few times but if you push on the saddle, you'll likely break the internal cable. 

Let me know what you find. 

-Chris

**Edit - in your case, since it was sinking even when the remote was detached, you don't really need to do step 5 above but if the lever is pressing the piston in step 4, then your internal cable is set too tight. If all this is normal and you decide to try servicing the cartridge, do the test in Step 15 of the original post before opening the cartridge. If it sags there, you have 100% confirmation that the service needs to be performed (or the cartridge replaced if you go the warranty route). Remember to wear safety glasses and point it away from your face. There will be a loud pop.

Keep us updated

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

MTB Pilot said:


> Kind Shock may be, no I'm sure, is THE WORST biking industry company for servicing their own products and customer service! I know of 4 people, personally that have sent their broken post in, only to get it back with the same problem. And trying to get ahold of them, HAAAHH! I have 4 of their post and the 150mm LEV that is just shy of a year old, just took a crap the other day, sagging close to an inch and a half, even with the trigger unhooked.
> 
> I actually think I may go back to RockShox, at least they have good CS and will fix their broken products.


That is also a bummer. That much sag sounds like the cartridge. FWIW, It's pretty simple to do this procedure if you need it up and running soon. I agree Rock Shox has far better CS but after watching a video on how to do the BASIC maintenance on the Reverb, I decided to stay with the LEV. There's much less work involved which is favorable since most posts are likely to need servicing periodically. Unless you get a gravity dropper - but let's face it - that boot is hideous.

If you decide to ditch that 150 mm LEV, I know someone who may be interested in purchasing it if the seat post diameter is right and the post is otherwise in decent condition.

If you decide to tackle the repair, good luck and let us know how it goes.

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

HowardRoark,

I added an edit to my last post to you regarding step 5. Just wanted to be sure you saw the updated version. 

Keep us updated. 

- Chris


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

The bottom cap was fully threaded up. I pulled the bottom cap (pain in the butt because it looks like they used some white thread locker on there. Then I looked at the actuator lever and it appeared to be lightly touching the activator piston as it should be. To test whether this was an issue I disconnected the cable clamp from the actuator and then threaded the bottom cap back on to test if there was movement in the post. The movement was still there so it appears that I need to service the post. I also made sure that the ridge on the bottom cap was not damaged and it was not.

My main concern is that servicing the post will not fix the issue for me since I just sent the post to KS and they supposedly serviced it. I'm wondering if I should buy a few tools and try to do it myself or send it back in to them. Does the DX use the same o-rings as mentioned in your original post? It seems like the post must have an issue with a seal somewhere or else it would not have sagged once I reinstalled it after servicing?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yeah. Seems strange that it would be sagging again when they sent it back. I'd wonder if they actually did anything at all. They don't service the cartridge. They simply replace it. The DX cartridge is exactly the same so the seals should work. However I recently replaced seals in a post and I think my measurement was slightly off for one. That being said, the main seals you want to replace, if any, are the inner and outer IFP seals. Those specs are correct. If you've got some basic mechanical skills, it can be a very simple and sort of fun procedure. 

Keep us updated. 
-Chris


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm a OK mechanic. My one concern is changing the IFP seals because from reading this thread it seems they can be pretty hard to get back on? Any other tips for replacing them?


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

As Chris has learned with buying new o-rings (and I've done this many times before as well) sometimes you gotta order a few different sizes in a range to figure out what is the perfect size. We use very small o-rings. It's tough to size these correctly using some calipers. However, as Chris mentioned, the IFP sizes are spot on. I can confirm this as well. Installing the new quad rings on the IFP is not difficult. Getting the IFP tube back into the IFP without damaging the inner quad ring is. Just take your time. Push the first lip of the quad ring onto the IFP tube, then slowly push the second lip over the edge of the tube with a 2-2.5mm hex wrench. That did it for me. 

In addition to the IFP quad rings, I also suggest changing the o-rings on the inner seal head (the thing you take off with a pin spanner or snap ring pliers) and the piston shaft quad ring (size 109)


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Well my Supernatural is doing the same thing as before the rebuild. It loses height over time, and when I pull up on the seat it sucks back down like it's under vacuum. So I guess I need new O-rings. What are the O-ring numbers for the Supernatural?

Thanks.


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## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

Chris, great tutorial.

I went for a ride yesterday in 25F degree weather and I half way through the ride my LEV was sagging 1-1.5''. I've had it for about 1.5 years now. 

I'll be attempting the rebuild soon, but I did not see how much oil was needed, only that you used 5WT. If you mentioned it somewhere in the thread, I apologize, but I did not see it mentioned. (I know you said how much you fill the post, but i don't want to buy a gallon of the stuff if only 2 oz is needed  )

Thanks!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

69tr6r said:


> Well my Supernatural is doing the same thing as before the rebuild. It loses height over time, and when I pull up on the seat it sucks back down like it's under vacuum. So I guess I need new O-rings. What are the O-ring numbers for the Supernatural?
> 
> Thanks.


So if it sinks over time as you're riding, I'd be a little suspicious for the red lever under your saddle getting stuck. This is the reason we ditched the SN for my wife and replaced with my old LEV. That mechanism gets slightly dirty and it gets sticky. The other possibility is your cable is too tight. If either of these is the case, you may also notice the post slowly rise from a down position. The other possibility is that you still have a little air mixed with your oil in the cartridge. As for the sucking back down thing - that's normal. When you lift the bike by the saddle in anything other than the fully extended position, you're creating negative pressure in the chambers. Doing this to a normal functioning post can actually create an issue by sucking oil into the air chamber across the seals. In other words don't do that once you've fixed it. Haha.



HowardRoark said:


> I'm a OK mechanic. My one concern is changing the IFP seals because from reading this thread it seems they can be pretty hard to get back on? Any other tips for replacing them?


What Larerilus said. It's not all that bad. Just be patient and take your time.



zeppman said:


> Chris, great tutorial.
> 
> I went for a ride yesterday in 25F degree weather and I half way through the ride my LEV was sagging 1-1.5''. I've had it for about 1.5 years now.
> 
> ...


Yeah, good question. Of course it varies depending on what length travel LEV you have. At one point I planned to measure this, got finished and realized I didn't look at how much oil I had left over. I think I started with around 50-80 mls though and still had a fair amount left over. I'm thinking you'll use less than 50 mls but I'd get at least 100 to account for spill just in case. It's a pretty small amount.

Everyone keep me updated to how things go.

Good Luck
-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

69tr6r said:


> What are the O-ring numbers for the Supernatural?
> 
> Thanks.


Sorry. Forgot to answer this. Specs are apparently the same. This is 100% true for the IFP seals as Laterilus can confirm but I have not replaced seals on a SN yet. Simply bleeding the 2 I serviced has resulted in continued normal function

-Chris


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

So, I called KS today and got in touch with Mike over there on my first try. Super nice guy. I mentioned my problem, ~3 mm of sag when pressing down on the saddle and I let him know that I had recently sent it in for service and that it came back with the same issue I sent it out with. He looked up my RMA details and gave me a call back within the hour. He said that the technician that worked on my dropper had noted that the amount of sag in the post is within their tolerances (which is up to 2 mm of sag so close enough I guess) and that they didn't do anything other than send it back to me with a fresh coat of grease. Mike did say that I can send it back if I want and that he would take a look at it but that they probably wouldn't replace the cartridge unless I was getting more sag than I am seeing. So, if KS is saying 3 mm of sag is within their tolerances I guess I just put up with the small amount of sag because it's more of an annoyance than something I can feel when riding the bike. He also mentioned that my particular post has a 2 year warranty and that I'll be covered if it gets any worse. 

So, I guess for now I'm just going to continue to ride with it as is and maybe down the line I'll do the rebuild. I'd hate to void my warranty trying to to the work myself but the procedure seems pretty straight forward.

I definitely didn't have the same experience as MTB Pilot had with KS customer service and would recommend KS from that standpoint.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Interesting. Didn't realize any sag was considered OK. I believe all the KS posts have a 2 yr. warranty and if you're patient (unlike me), it's never a bad route to take. Nice to hear they got in touch so quickly. When I first got my LEV, they seemed to be pretty good at CS. Maybe that will be the case again. Hopefully that mild sag won't get worse. Keep us updated. 

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

69tr6r said:


> Well my Supernatural is doing the same thing as before the rebuild. It loses height over time, and when I pull up on the seat it sucks back down like it's under vacuum. So I guess I need new O-rings. What are the O-ring numbers for the Supernatural?
> 
> Thanks.


69tr6r, I have the Drop Zone which is the same thing as a Supernatural, only it is a setback saddle clamp. I have all the o-ring sizes listed with pictures on the second page of this thread.

I also agree with Chris that the valve at the top of the Supernatural can get sticky at times. I use a thin bearing oil and drip it onto the plunger that sticks out from time to time. It'll kind of make a soupy mess around the plunger, then I blow it out with compressed air. I'll also put a thin layer of grease on the bottom side of the lever that pushes down on the plunger. These steps get things moving again like new.

HowardRoark,
I'm amazed that KS is ok with 3mm sag. I agree with you that it is hard to feel 3mm, but to me, that amount of drop means the o-rings are on their way to being bad or the post simply needs a fresh bleed. 3mm means air in the oil chamber for sure. In addition, I disagree with the person that spoke with you on the phone. They said the tolerance was 2mm of sag. 3mm would be 50% greater than their tolerance, so there is a problem. A tolerance is given for the fact that things are never perfect. Once outside of the tolerance, that means there is something wrong. Yeah, I could be splitting hairs here, but I still think this is unacceptable by KS. I can feel the sagging between 3-4mm (closer to 4mm). It is annoying. I know for a fact that after a post bleed my Drop Zone only sags 0.5mm~1mm. Once it hits 2mm, its time for a bleed. It's been awhile, but I think Chris has mentioned the same after he's done a bleed. I'm glad KS got back to you quickly and spoke with you directly over the phone, but I'm displeased they only did a quick grease job. They should have bled the post and inspected the o-rings.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks guys, will take a look at the lever area tonight.


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## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

You guys think I should try the warranty route first? Mine is under two years, but I don't want to be without the post for more then a week. 

I'm not too worried about attempting the rebuild myself.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Laterilus said:


> It's been awhile, but I think Chris has mentioned the same after he's done a bleed. I'm glad KS got back to you quickly and spoke with you directly over the phone, but I'm displeased they only did a quick grease job. They should have bled the post and inspected the o-rings.


When I do the bleed, I really don't appreciate ANY sag after. I always check the cartridge (Step 15, 2nd pic.) before reassembly. If I appreciate sag there, I just redo it until I don't. When you follow the steps, you really don't have any problems. That being said, the SN and DZ are a little more tempermental when it comes to getting a perfect bleed the first time.

KS does not service these cartridges at all from what I understand. They only replace them because they are factory sealed (which is why KS had the MTBR moderator add the manufaturer's warning to my thread). I feel they should have at least explained what was done and why it wasn't replaced - BEFORE HowardRoark called to ask why nothing had changed. Communication goes a long way.



69tr6r said:


> Thanks guys, will take a look at the lever area tonight.


You're welcome



zeppman said:


> You guys think I should try the warranty route first? Mine is under two years, but I don't want to be without the post for more then a week.
> 
> I'm not too worried about attempting the rebuild myself.


That is completely your call. I hate to push people to ignore their warranty. That being said, it really is a simple procedure if you take your time. I started this thread for the impatient (like myself) who want to have their bikes back up and running without depending on a middle man. You could even do the bleed while you're waiting on seals, then wait for the post to fail again before replacing them. Based on my experience, you'll likely go a long time before ever needing to - if at all. Most of the posts I've serviced were bled only and have been problem free ever since. Whatever you decide to do, keep us updated.

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Zeppman, if you aren't worried about doing the service and have the necessary tools, I'd say go for it. If you send it in for warranty, they replace just the cartridge, correct? Does that also include the brass keys and du bushing? If they replaced other wear parts, I could see going with warranty. Free parts is free parts. The du bushing and brass keys do wear out on a yearly basis for me. 

As for the cartridge, yours is going to look like new on the inside assuming you didn't get any dirt in there. The only thing wrong is the o-rings, and you may only need a bleed. Either way, the o-rings are super cheap. 

Speaking of o-rings, the quad rings I got from theoringstore.com have now survived in my drop zone on 100 degree days this summer and now 4 rides between 13-20 degrees. Quite a temperature swing. Not even another half mm of sag. Im impressed. I usually had problems with my reverbs in the past once temperatures got lower than freezing. 

Zeppman, I almost forgot, you can get a small bottle of Rockshox Reverb oil. It is 2.5wt. It is the same thing as Maxima 2.5wt oil. This is what I'm using in my drop zone. It definitely sped up my post as opposed to using 5wt. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## HowardRoark (Jun 4, 2014)

I think I'll probably just ride it for now and eventually just do the service myself. Better than sending it in and waiting and I always like knowing how things work anyway. Plus if it doesn't work (unlikely) I could probably still just send it in. I do agree that they should have just replaced/serviced the cartridge. I probably could have pushed to have them fix it but in the moment I really wasn't in the mood or expecting them to come back and tell me that it was within their tolerances.

How bad is the pop when you remove the cap off the cartridge (after relieving as much pressure as possible)? Are we talking like flying across the room or is it not really that bad? Just trying to figure out what to expect.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

HowardRoark said:


> How bad is the pop when you remove the cap off the cartridge (after relieving as much pressure as possible)? Are we talking like flying across the room or is it not really that bad? Just trying to figure out what to expect.


It varies a little bit. I've not had any shoot across the room but it can be a fairly loud pop with a slight spray of oil. I wear safety glasses, point it away from my face, and loosen slowly (after removing the air on the Schraeder side). I've also draped a rag over the end to prevent oil from getting everywhere.

Good luck and be safe. Let us know if/when you decide to tackle this.

-Chris


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

HowardRoark said:


> I think I'll probably just ride it for now and eventually just do the service myself. Better than sending it in and waiting and I always like knowing how things work anyway. Plus if it doesn't work (unlikely) I could probably still just send it in. I do agree that they should have just replaced/serviced the cartridge. I probably could have pushed to have them fix it but in the moment I really wasn't in the mood or expecting them to come back and tell me that it was within their tolerances.
> 
> How bad is the pop when you remove the cap off the cartridge (after relieving as much pressure as possible)? Are we talking like flying across the room or is it not really that bad? Just trying to figure out what to expect.


Mine would have gone flying across a room if I had let it but I did it outside and it went flying across my deck. I recommend having something softer to stop it so it doesn't get damaged because mine had a lot of force.


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## frfreshman (Dec 10, 2014)

This is a great source of information.

Left my bike with a Super Natural outside in freezing temperatures with post fully extended, as I thought this would be the position to avoid high pressures on any inside seals.
When I wanted to go for the next ride I immediately felt that the seat was dropping massively to the point of being unrideable.
Fortunately found this thread and decided to give the cartridge rebuild a try.
In this end it worked like a charme and I learned a lot on the way!
For example now I believe that I was wrong before and that the best position to store the post is fully compressed and that this would possibly have prevented the problem of the dropping post in the first place!
I also understand now that it is critical to lift the bike on the seat with the post extended to somewhere in the middle, while it should be ok to do so when the seat is all the way up or all the way down.
(correct me if I am wrong)

Again, thank you for all the good information to be found here!


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## frfreshman (Dec 10, 2014)

frfreshman said:


> I also understand now that it is critical to lift the bike on the seat with the post extended to somewhere in the middle, while it should be ok to do so when the seat is all the way up or all the way down.
> (correct me if I am wrong)


Already correcting myself here:
Possibly lifting the bike with the seat fully dropped can create issues too.
So to be safe either never lift the bike on the seat, or only with post fully extended.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

frfreshman said:


> Already correcting myself here:
> Possibly lifting the bike with the seat fully dropped can create issues too.
> So to be safe either never lift the bike on the seat, or only with post fully extended.


That is correct. Glad to hear this thread got your bike back up and running. To be honest, I have no idea which position is safest to store BUT I beleieve fully extended would be best. This is because pressure in the air chamber increases when the saddle is down which is the driving force that extends it when you activate it when unweighted. I think your post would have failed either way. The seals likely shrunk in the cold temps, allowing air and oil to mix.

Thanks for the feedback!

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

I have yet to have the internal seal head fly across the room, pop or shoot out oil. Just unscrew the internal seal head slowly. You'll actually break the air seal well before you completely unscrew it. The problem only happens when people unscrew it fast or even at some moderate speed. If you go really slow, you'll hear the air start to hiss out. At that point, stop unscrewing. Let the air continually leak. Unscrew it the rest of the way once you no longer hear air escaping.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I think it also depends on how much air gets into the oil chamber. I've had a few with no "pop" (mainly when I was going in for more pics) but others that popped even with very slow unthreading. 

Laterilus, I was recently asked a question regarding the Teflon backup washers. I know you gave us some specs on the SN ones (which are likely the same as the LEV) on the 2nd page of this thread. I see they have them at theoringstore.com. Is that where you typically look for them? And how do you measure them (ie; how'd you get 011)?

Thanks,
-Chris


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## frfreshman (Dec 10, 2014)

cakelly4 said:


> That is correct. Glad to hear this thread got your bike back up and running. To be honest, I have no idea which position is safest to store BUT I beleieve fully extended would be best. This is because pressure in the air chamber increases when the saddle is down which is the driving force that extends it when you activate it when unweighted. I think your post would have failed either way. The seals likely shrunk in the cold temps, allowing air and oil to mix.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> -Chris


Hi Chris,

talking about the Super Natural here:

That was my thought too, but the more I think about it I believe fully dropped has to be best.
Isn't the oil mechanically separated from the air by the actuator, not by seals only?
But as soon as the seat is extended oil and air are separated by the main seal (IFP ?) only, which makes it more likely to leak / air-oil-exchange.

When lifting the bike on the seat (when completes dropped or not fully extended) a vacuum on the oil-side of the main seal could cause it to have air leaking through and then mix with oil (once actuator is being used, in case seat was fully dropped).
Basically the same I believe happened on my mine due to the main seal leaking air in cold temperatures while the post was fully extended and oil and air only separated by the main seal.

This is how I understand the system so far.

Well, at least I know how to fix it now. It worked without replacing any parts other than oil.

Cheers,
Frank


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

So if the seals shrink in cold weather, is this a warm weather seatpost only? I've used my E-Ten in much colder than that with no issues.

It wasn't that cold when I rode last (40F), and I had the same problem with the post slowly sinking, and now it's stuck down.

I tried lubing the actuator, and it didn't help. Looks like I'm due for another rebuild but I guess I will replace all of the O-rings too.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

frfreshman said:


> Isn't the oil mechanically separated from the air by the actuator, not by seals only? But as soon as the seat is extended oil and air are separated by the main seal (IFP ?) only, which makes it more likely to leak / air-oil-exchange


Yeah, hard to visualize with the Supernatural, but when the post is in the upright position, the IFP is all the way up the cartridge (towards the saddle). When you sit on the saddle and activate the post, the small shaft sinks in, pushing the oil up the inner chamber towards the saddle, then back down the outer chamber away from the saddle. That oil pushes the IFP down away from the saddle, increasing the air pressure on the other side of it. At least that's how I picture it. Honestly, the saddle should be fine stored in either position if everything is working well. I just figure lower pressure in the air chamber = less chance of it slipping past the IFP seals into the oil. I could be completely wrong though. Haha.



69tr6r said:


> So if the seals shrink in cold weather, is this a warm weather seatpost only? I've used my E-Ten in much colder than that with no issues.
> 
> It wasn't that cold when I rode last (40F), and I had the same problem with the post slowly sinking, and now it's stuck down.
> 
> I tried lubing the actuator, and it didn't help. Looks like I'm due for another rebuild but I guess I will replace all of the O-rings too.


I've heard a lot of people having problems after the cold but it seems inconsistent. And I feel like people have reported doing the bleed and then not having problems despite it still being cold. It's a little weird for sure. Sorry to hear your post is screwy again. Think maybe your bleed had a little air trapped? The SN is definitely more finicky when it comes to this. I agree a seal change is a good idea. I'm the type that would still be trying another bleed while I waited for parts though Ironically, my 150 mm LEV finally started to sag for the first time. It's around 3-4 mm though so within tolerances I guess. Haha. Yeah right. I'm fixing that sucker right now.

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Chris, the Teflon glide rings (back up rings on theoringstore.com) are sized just like the o-rings except they only come in standard sizes. I've looked high and low for metric sizes but have never come across a store that will sell them to the general consumer. Here is the sizing chart for the Teflon rings.

http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=18

Most of our applications use the split ring Teflon glide rings.

For example, the piston shaft uses 011 split rings. The split rings always have a similar ID and OD to the o or quad ring they guide. In addition, their thickness is easier to measure with calipers since the glide rings won't flex nearly as much as the spongy buna n material. You'll see that there is two different thickness measurements on their web page but the only one you need is the thickness where it is assumed the face across the glide ring is flat (measurement "T"). Measuring ID is as simple as holding the split ring in as good of a circle as you can (easier than o-rings in my opinion).

Either way, I only buy the Teflon glide rings as back up. They don't really wear out. They are naturally a slick surface and there is not pressure on them since they aren't holding the seal. They are just there to keep things straight. I only replace them if I screw up during a rebuild and accidentally bend or gouge one.

Oh, and since you've been going by your first name forever I might as well add mine to the thread. My name is Nick.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks Nick! Someone had PM'd me a question and had noticed a damaged back-up ring in his post. I hadn't come across that yet but figured the info would be good to have on this thread. 

Also, to answer an earlier question in this thread regarding volume of oil: I used approximately 25 ml of 5wt oil in my 125 mm LEV yesterday (I kept calling it 150 mm earlier and have no idea why - whoops). 25 ml was plenty and some even spilled over as I reassembled (as it should). So having 50 mls ready prior to the bleed should be plenty (though the stuff is so cheap, I typically just buy a full quart or liter - whatever it comes in). I'll update that info in the original thread soon.

-Chris


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## galbraithrider (Sep 28, 2005)

Anybody experience their post not dropping all the way after their rebuild? No more sag issue but now it only goes down About 3/4 of the way?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Galbraithrider,

Sorry you're having troubles. When you did the rebuild, did you make sure to position the IFP in the proper place before adding oil? It should be almost all the way up to the end with the cap. The problem you're describing makes me think there's too much oil or oil where it shouldn't be. I guess the other possibility would be if the internal cable stretched/slipped/got damaged and is not fully activating the post. 

If the cable seems fine, I'd simply redo the cartridge bleed, making sure the IFP is positioned properly. Also make sure the damper end of the internal rod is threaded on all the way (Step 13b). 

Let me know how it goes. 

-Chris


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## galbraithrider (Sep 28, 2005)

I'm thinking it's the cable there shouldn't be any slack in it right? It seemed loose when i reconnected it but i couldn't remember if it was that way before. Love that you posted this by the way, i like the lev a lot but hate the turn around time for getting it serviced.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

There should be no slack in the internal cable when the claw is connected in the junction box. You could also remove the cartridge from the post, reassemble the actuator on the end of the shaft, and try cycling it manually if the cable seems OK. Be careful not to bend the little actuator lever if you do this. 

Let me know how it goes. 
-Chris


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## frfreshman (Dec 10, 2014)

Hello experts!
Loved to rebuild my Super Natural using this tutorial.
Now would be keen to try the same with the Reverb.
Anybody got a link to instructions for the Reverb?

Thanks,
Frank


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I think Laterilus (Nick) is your guy for that info. You may want to shoot him a PM. Glad to hear it went well for the Supernatural!

-Chris


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## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

I did the rebuild this afternoon. Took a little over two hours (I really took my time and took a break to have a sandwich). My post started to sag about 1.5-2'' after I went for a ride in below freezing weather a few weeks ago. I'm not blaming the cold weather but I've heard this was the cause for others. I'm not exactly sure why my post started to sag. Below are my comments and thoughts that I hope will help others:

-Overall, a lot easier then I thought it would be. The most difficult part of the whole process was just not being familiar with the internals, and being afraid I was going to damage something on my expensive post. 

-I did not use a strap wrench at all as I don't own one. Whenever I needed a good grip on something, I cleaned it with rubbing alcohol and used rubber gloves. This provided enough grip.

-Removing the actuator assembly in step 5 was difficult. Mostly because mine was really stuck on there and I was afraid of breaking it. I cleaned the shaft and used rubber gloves for grip while turning the actuator assembly with a wrench. I tried using no tools but I couldn't get it to budge. 

-In step 7, I removed the DU bushing by the "force" method, as shown in the KS youtube video. It took a few tries but by the 3rd or 4th try it popped right out. 

-When I removed the "seat collar" (I believe this is the name? Its the piece that the bolts go through to attach to the saddle plates) in step 8, there was some dirt and grime wedged around it. I ended up scratching the very upper portion of the stanchion very slightly. Be careful of this. I heard grinding as I was moving it, and tried to leave it in place and clean around it, but I still put a small groove in the stanchion. 

-When removing the snap ring in step 10, there was a loud pop, and a bit of oil sprayed everywhere. Just a friendly reminder to where those safety glasses!

-14b was the only step that I was slightly confused with, as I did not know where to position the snap ring cap. I ended up pushing it down almost do the end of the shaft just before the plastic pieces, and hoped for the best. An extra hand (my wife helped out) could help in balancing the outer tube as you drop in the damper assembly with the valve opened. 

-Lastly, I wasn't sure what should be cleaned and what shouldn't be cleaned as I took my post apart. If the part looked grimy, I wiped it down with paper towels and re-applied some slick honey. Not sure if I should of went any further with this. 

Overall, Chris, thank you for your detailed tutorial. It was very helpful and saved me what was reported to be weeks of not having the post if I went the "send to the manufacturer" route. If I did it again I bet I could complete it in under an hour. The post now works like the day I bought it. 

I should note that I did not replace any parts. I just took the post apart per Chris' instructions and put it back together. To be honest I'm not even sure what I did to fix it? I'm assuming there was air in the oil chamber, or oil in the air chamber... but I'm not entirely sure. But the post works great now. Funny thing was, as I was working on it (I'm an engineer, but not the mechanical kind) I kept thinking, this thing seems overly complicated, there has to be an easier, simpler design! But what do I know... 

Thanks Chris!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're very welcome. And thanks for the feedback!

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

frfreshman said:


> Hello experts!
> Loved to rebuild my Super Natural using this tutorial.
> Now would be keen to try the same with the Reverb.
> Anybody got a link to instructions for the Reverb?
> ...


I would assume you can look up my posts somehow on this forum. I suggest doing that. Look for my posts in the Rockshox Reverb thread. I know at some point or another I've gone through my bleed procedure for that post along with listing the sizes of the o-rings. In addition, SRAM released a 4 part video a couple years back on how to bleed the post. You can see them on YouTube. Their method requires about $25 worth of tools. My procedure doesn't require the special tools.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Concerning cold weather riding, I've already had 4 rides this winter that were below freezing with one of my rides down to 13 degrees. I've had no problems with my dropzone. One interesting thing of note is that all of the most important o-rings (or quads) in my dropzone are Buna-N 70 from theoringstore.com. The original o-rings feel like the same Buna-N to me, but it could be possible that they are not. Maybe I just happened to put in some o-rings that were a perfect fit? There is a lot of manufacturing tolerances to these o-rings. I also have to report that I've noticed the same good performance from my reverb as well in the winter using those o-rings. Winters in my area of the US will get to about -5 for a few days but usually temps are between 10-20 degrees. Those of you having winter problems might be in much colder weather. Anyway, it might be something worthwhile to think about if you keep having problems with sagging in the winter time. 

Zeppman, I too am an engineer but not of the mechanical kind. I'm a ChemE so I still at least have a very good understanding of fluid dynamics. Personally, I find the Kindshock/Rockshox design to be very good considering what you get in return. A post that stops where ever you want it with a fast return that doesn't hamper your ability to have children. In addition, the post isn't very heavy and has a very smooth action so that you aren't thinking about making it work and are more focused on your ride. The downside of this design is the reliance on multiple o-ring and quad rings. The manufacturers are limited by the size of the seat tubes. That automatically makes them smaller than probably they would want. I could see them making the inner tubes smaller in diameter so that they could use larger o-rings, but I don't know if that would compromise the integrity of the metal parts. You could get rid of the air chamber and use a spring, but I bet that would make them weigh a lot more. 

I've noticed that x-fusion uses a different design. Looks simpler. I wonder if it lasts as long between rebuilds?


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## vanderwheelstander (Nov 24, 2014)

First of all, great thread.

I've got the 27.2 model, with some of the usual problems (slow rebound, finicky in cold temps, etc), and last summer I had some warranty work performed by KS (experienced quick turnaround and great customer service.) As the post started acting up again this winter, I decided that regular disassembly, cleaning, and lubing was going to be part of ownership and decided to give that a try rather than give it an annual trip to Cali. Unfortunately I depressurized the cartridge, and thus found myself perusing the thread.

I thought I would offer this solution for unthreading the cap from the silver IFP in the 27.2 models. Rather than getting a 14mm allen key and cutting a relief for the shaft, I purchased a nut for $0.72 at the hardware store and used it in conjunction with a wrench (in this case a 3/8" jam nut happened to provide the best fit. Plus the nylon helps to not mar the shaft.)


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nicely done! I still haven't had my hands on one of these so the more pics of that procedure, the better.

Thanks for sharing!
-Chris


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Fixed my 27.2mm LEV!










Ahem.

I have 4 mtbs. Three are Reverb equipped, one is (obviously) not. The couple months of ownership of this LEV has given me more headache and PIA frustration than all the Reverbs combined.

Yes, I'll miss the infinite adjustment.

Pretty sure I'll not miss anything else from that post.

Yeah, the GD only has preset stops, it looks fugly, the remote is sorta' cludgy, blahblahblah, but **** me man, it just works without me having to mess around with a ton.

My prior GD post is near 8 years old. A rebuild at this point keeps it slop free with the inner/outer system, but the pin into the post connection has worn enough that I said, screw it, and ordered up a new one. If I had to do it all over again...I'd try and be smart enough to have Chromag stick a seat tube in the frame that could take a 30.9mm post. Oops.

And just because we all like bike porn. To further sweeten the non-LEV content, I was getting pretty loopy on a good amount of Berkshire Brewing Co. Draymans Porter while doing all this.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Do you guys have any success contacting KS USA?
It's almost impossible to get anyone to pick up the phone...

Do they still do the cartridge swap under the 2 year warranty for free?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Scrublover, nice fix. Haha. 

Jazzanova, once you get a hold of them, they will likely give you an RMA to send it in for a cartridge swap (if it's sagging). Let us know how that goes. 

Good luck. 

-Chris


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

cakelly4 said:


> Scrublover, nice fix. Haha.
> 
> Jazzanova, once you get a hold of them, they will likely give you an RMA to send it in for a cartridge swap (if it's sagging). Let us know how that goes.
> 
> ...


Hi Cakelly,
Yes I spoke to them. My post is out of warranty now, so I have to find some other way. They don't sell the replacements parts directly to customers and suggested to contact KHS(Mike), BTI(Brian) or QBP(Don) who are all working on KS seatposts and should not be a problem to get the parts from them or service.

My post (KS Lev 150) might just need some cleaning and slick honey. 
It slips down only about 1/4" and there is a slight resistance at the end of full retraction. It is also a bit hesitant to go down in that first 1/4" if fully retracted.

Do you still offer the service?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Sounds like your cartridge and possibly internal cable are both acting up. A cleaning and slick honey may be worth a try first though. Especially if it's not been done in the 2 years you've owned it. 

Yeah, if you're not comfortable trying it (cartridge bleed) out yourself, I'm happy to fix it for you. Just send me a PM if you decide to go that route and I'll give you the info you need to send it.

-Chris


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## Hackl (Jan 17, 2015)

Hi Chris,

did the job according your perfect desciption: It works again (formerly it drops about 4mm under load). Thank you ! Without this infomation I didn't dare this...
One question: after installation, the post tends to stuck in the lower end position, I have to pull up the saddle a few mm, then it moves as it should.
Any ideas ?

Cheers, Georg


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hmm. Is that only after the bike has been sitting for a while or every time you drop it? Also, did you apply slick honey on the post when reassembling? If not, that's the first place I would start. Other things to check are the DU bushing. If it's damaged, the post may not slide well. You can usually feel this when you're sliding the bushing on and off. Also, what pressure did you set it at?

-Chris


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Absolutely love threads like this! awesome work here Chris and all other contributors!

I just completed a successful cartridge service and I am back to normal. I would say rebuild if I replaced o-rings but that will probably be next time.

My LEV 150 has been faithful for 2 seasons now and started to sag recently and got worse and worse. Cable was recently replaced and I slick honey under the collar every couple weeks for consistent smooth action. So I am pretty sure my case was a oil/air issue.

One thing I noticed on the valve body the action was slightly sticky, I blasted some air through with tri-flow and cleaned it the best I could without disassembling. I cant help but think if this thing is sticking it would cause the sag issue as well. Not sure if the spring wears out or just dirt but I could see this being part of the problem.

Anyone dissemble this part of the valve yet? I started to attempt to open it up but spun my allen wrench in the tip. Its thin soft aluminum and its probably thread locked similar to the actuator assembly. I stopped at that point and re-assembled.

I had a hard time on step 5 getting the actuator off, I ended up applying some heat very carefully to the assembly and rod tip, then she came off no problem.

This is the valve body section I am curious about. Anyone disassemble further? Sure would be nice for KS to provide this for rebuilding with an o-ring kit.

Thanks again!!!!!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Glad your post is up and running. I've seen that valve stick as well - sometimes with small bits of plastic lodged in there, sometimes without. Typically I use some fork oil and cycle it several times. I started to dismantle it once, then bailed to avoid damaging anything.

Chris


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## Hackl (Jan 17, 2015)

Hi Chris, thanks your the quick reply.



cakelly4 said:


> ...Is that only after the bike has been sitting for a while or every time you drop it?


It is everytime.


> Also, did you apply slick honey on the post when reassembling?


Yes, I did. (Maybe too much?)



> Other things to check are the DU bushing. If it's damaged, the post may not slide well


It looked ok, but I will do a closer look.


> Also, what pressure did you set it at?


about 150 PSI. I believe in the post is less than than, because some air dissappered during removing the pump. I will try to pump a bit more...

What I else noticed was, that I heard a kind of air-flow in the post while dropping or extracting... That is new ...

Ok, I will dismantle it again and will check this points.

Thanks !

- Georg


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

It's not uncommon to get some "sucking" noises when it goes up and down after getting some slick honey in there, especially if you went a little heavy with it. You really only need a thin layer on the shaft near the guide bushings, between the DU bushing and wiper seal, and in the 1-way roller bearings. As far as pressure goes, I tend to set mine at 200 psi though 150 should work (unless some leaked out like you said). Also, if it sticks a little on the way down as well, it may be that your internal cable is getting a little slack.

Lastly, when you reassemble the cartridge into the black casing, make sure you purge the air as demonstrated in the KS video:






Let me know how things turn out after that. It's definitely not normal to stick down every time and that would drive me nuts.

-Chris


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## Hackl (Jan 17, 2015)

Hi Chris,

just came out the cellar. After some checks I recognized, that it does not stuck in the end, when the lower cap was a bit loose. I thighened then the end cap with the post pushed down, and voila! It works.
At this point I remembered something from the video, what was also your recommendation.
Not sure, why tightening with ignoring this ends up in this stucking behaviour, but anyway: it works !
Many thanks again from cold and sunny Germany! :thumbsup:

Cheers, Georg


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

That's great! I'm glad it's working again. Let me know if you run into any other issues. 

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Canrock,

That's a quote from me in one of my earlier posts. Did you have a question to go with it? If you're looking for seal specs, they're now located in the original post. 

-Chris


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## wheatgerm (Jan 30, 2006)

cakelly4 said:


> Canrock,
> 
> That's a quote from me in one of my earlier posts. Did you have a question to go with it? If you're looking for seal specs, they're now located in the original post.
> 
> -Chris


The user is a spam user. All of this clown's posts are copy/paste from a prior post just so his signature can appear. Hover over the link in his signature.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

His post is gone now so I missed the signature. Bummer. I'm sure it was life altering. 

Thanks wheatgerm. 

-Chris


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## VTHoser (Jan 24, 2015)

Hi,

First, thank you so much to all the contributors to this thread. To the business at hand...

I have a 1 year old Lev DX that since new has exhibited the trait of resisting the start of the first adjustment stroke after the post has set for say 20 or 30 minutes. The post will not compress by setting your weight on it. It requires a bump with your seat or hand. The operation is normal and smooth after this initial sticking. Heat, cold, 150 PSI or 120 PSI post pressure seem to make little difference in this charateristic.

I am careful to not over tighten the setpost collar. I just pulled the cartridge for inspection. No wear or signs of anything abnormal. I cleaned and lubed the post tube and the cartridge. No real change. I had suspected that I had too thick of and too much grease. 

I have had one email reply from Mike Alferez at KS. He asked as to the torque on the post collar. I replied sub 3NM per Tomson seatpost collar specification. I use carbon assembly post in the seat tube to help allow keeping the torque low.

Anyone had or heard of this problem?

Carl


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hey Carl,

Sorry to hear you're having issues. I've had some similar issues in the past and have a few thoughts. First off, you should never need to go any lower than 150 psi (though I understand your thought process). I typically stay around 200 psi. 

Is there any resistance in the lever on that initial activation after your bike has been at rest? If so, the actual valve may be sticking as mentioned above by Riproar (this tends to be palpable in the lever actuation)

If not, my first guess would be that your internal cable is just slightly loose. This slack may be reducible by tightening the external cable's barrel adjuster. If not, you may need to do an internal cable service. Slackness in that cable can result in constant or inconsistent problems with activation. 

-Chris


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## gauthier (Aug 2, 2011)

Hi cakelly4 and many thanks for your helpful guide.
A month ago, during its third winter, my LEV 150mm was blocked ( at 20°C ) after a winter ride.
During a second ride, the seatpost unblocked, started to make noise "slurpppp" and the seatpost slow extend by itself.
Following your guide, I did the maintenance until the step 16.
At this point, I have no sag ( I never had sag ) but the seatpost extend by itself.
I suspect the actuator and I wonder how to check it, when I press it to open the valve it slowly come back.
Does anyone had the same issue or idea how to fix it?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hey Gauthier. OK. A couple of questions:

1. Did you do the extra steps when putting the end cap back on in order to purge the air between the cartridge and post body? This is the step where you thread the cap on almost all the way except for 1-2mm, then activate the post. Then while in the down position, finish tightening the end cap. It won't work properly if you skip this. If you forgot to tighten the cap the rest of the way, it may slowly sink/rise. 
2. While you had the cartridge out of the post, did you try installing the push rod and actuator assembly to test activation? If it works smoothly there but not when reinstalled into the post body, then you likely need to adjust the link cable (the internal one). If it does not work smoothly, then there's likely something off in the cartridge and you may need to try it again.

Let me know and I'll try to help some more if those ideas don't help. 

Good luck
-Chris


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## galbraithrider (Sep 28, 2005)

I've got to buy a new cartridge for my lev 125 but the supplier only has the 150mm cartridges in stock currently. Anybody know if the 150mm cartridge requires a longer body or other parts that would be different in length/size? The parts diagram only shows the cartridge as being different but the body isn't an option to purchase. Seems like it would have to be 25mm longer... Just wondering, I'd rather not have to wait months to repair my lev and I don't want to drop the coin on a whole new one.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

galbraithrider said:


> I've got to buy a new cartridge for my lev 125 but the supplier only has the 150mm cartridges in stock currently.


Why do you need to replace the cartridge? Is there external damage or is it just sagging? If it's sagging, this DIY should fix it.

If it's toast, try this:

Bikeman KS LEV DX/Internal Oil Cartridge for 125mm

I'd avoid using a longer cartridge in the body. Out of curiosity, who was the supplier? Also, I'm guessing yours is past warranty?

-Chris


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## galbraithrider (Sep 28, 2005)

Past warranty i bought it used and the seller failed to mention some damage on the stantion that is pretty bad. Qbp is the supplier we use at work. It's cheaper and faster to do the work and replace the cartridge than to send to ks.


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## galbraithrider (Sep 28, 2005)

Is the dx any different as far as the cartridge? They have that one in stock.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

So the DX will will be slightly different but would work fine. There will be 2 differences:

1. The top (near the schraeder valve) will not have the removable black seat clamp cradle (the part that makes changing the saddle orientation easier). Instead, the top of the cartridge will simply be shaped like the cradle. All your other parts will work with it. 
2. The other end of the cartridge will have 3 extra indentations for the copper guide bushings. This gives you the ability to still orient your saddle the way you want (just extra work involved which doesn't matter since you'll have it apart anyway).

Just another thought - if the stanchion damage is mild, it shouldn't be a big deal (unless you mean that the small, inner stanchion is damaged). If it's the visible (outer) stanchion, you could just wet sand it so that it doesn't damage the DU bushing or dust wiper. Just a thought.

-Chris

Edit: just realized the standard LEV cartridge is here:

Bikeman KS LEV Oil Cartridge for 125mm


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Sorry. Just realized they also have the standard LEV cartridge here:

Bikeman KS LEV Oil Cartridge for 125mm

-Chris


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

*two questions*

Hey, two questions for you LEV pros!

Can anyone suggest a good strap wrench that will work and can be bought online? None of the local hardware stores had one suitable for smaller parts.
My post "catches" while being compressed. It's often taking 2-3 attempts to get the post to fully drop. I have ruled out the remote & cable. ANy thoughts on what's causing this?
Post is a LEV 150.
Thanks!

PS- I converted a SRAM XO front shifter to a remote, as detailed on the Arts Cylery blog. Makes for an Awesome remote and front shifters are practically free these days, with so many people going 1x.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

1. This is the strap wrench that I have had great luck with.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015YLLRG/ref=sr_ph?ie=UTF8&qid=1422646210&sr=1&keywords=strap+wrench

2. 99.9% sure you need to replace your internal cable. Once that thing gets even a hair stretched/damaged/slipped, your post will do just what you're describing. It's only partially opening the valve and so it feels sluggish and almost "gritty" as it goes up and down (especially down). I've got some links to OEM Kevlar in my thread as well as the cheater version of kevlar kite string (I like having this, especially if you haven't done it before, because sometimes it takes a few tries to get the length perfect). You will be amazed what a difference a new internal cable will feel like.

After you've tried that, if you're still having problems, let me know.

-Chris


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

Awesome, thank you Chris!


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## VTHoser (Jan 24, 2015)

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your suggestions. Although I had already checked the internal cable, etc. you got me thinking. I did some testing and discovered that the sticking had nothing to do with the time the post sat idle. Rather the sticking happened when my weight was to the rear of the saddle. The root of the problem was poor lubrication of the post housing and outer cylinder. 

I had used Park City Polylube 1000 grease. Seeing your lube recommendation and talking to KS who said they use and specify Slick Honey prompted to get some. I cleaned to completely remove the old grease followed by lubing with Slick Honey lube. It is fixed! No move sticking.

I have a suggestion as to a technique to get grip on the inner cylinder rod when removing a stubburn base/actuator assembly. Place several wraps of duct tape around the rod. Then use a strap wrench as directed in the maintenance videos over the tape. The duct tape will provide lots of grip for the strap wrench. This illuminates the risks of using metal tools near the rod.

Thank you for the great advice and excellent photos...

Carl


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Great to hear you're up and running. Keep in mind that sometimes a slack internal cable can also make the post activate only in certain positions. Sounds like it was just in need of lube in your case but if it happens in the future and lube doesn't fix it, be thinking of that cable. 

The duct tape idea sounds good though I'd be afraid of leaving residue on the inner shaft. The new technique I updated in my thread has been working very well and a thin layer of inner tube separates the shaft from the aluminum soft jaws. That being said, I've seen the soft jaws placed directly on the stanchion on the Rock Shox Reverb service video. 

Thanks for your feedback. Always good to hear what problems arise and what solutions resolve them. 

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

The aluminum on soft jaws is significantly softer than the aluminum rods in these dropper posts. You'll mar the soft jaws well before the shafts. 

I've been using soft jaws for years with no problems. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Mr. 68 Hundred (Feb 6, 2011)

Anyone know where I can but the soft jaw/tube clamps? Been looking at auto parts stores, Harbor Freight, Grainger, Jenson's and CRC. I'm obviously missing something obvious in my search parameters. Something for the seat tube would be nice (30.9 and 31.6) as well at 10 mm for the inside shaft (LEV DX). Thanks.

Steve





Clamps like at the ~40 second mark


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I use these for any size post and they work on the small diameter shaft as well.

Lisle 48000 Aluminum Vise Jaw Pad:Amazon:Automotive

I spent a while trying to find those small clamps too with no luck. I think they're home made. After searching I discovered a Rock Shox video where they place the narrow shaft in those very same soft jaws that I already had. You can place them in there vertically or horizontally. Works great.

-Chris


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Mr. 68 Hundred said:


> Anyone know where I can but the soft jaw/tube clamps? Been looking at auto parts stores, Harbor Freight, Grainger, Jenson's and CRC. I'm obviously missing something obvious in my search parameters. Something for the seat tube would be nice (30.9 and 31.6) as well at 10 mm for the inside shaft (LEV DX). Thanks.
> 
> Steve
> 
> ...


Check your local golf shop or a Roger Dunn golf shop that sells parts for installing new grips on clubs. I scored a heavy rubber clamp that works perfect for smaller shafts, maybe up to 1/2" dia. For larger diameter, I have found the strap wrenches usually supply enough safe clamping force. The one in this pic was only about $5 at my local Roger Dunn shop.


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## Mr. 68 Hundred (Feb 6, 2011)

Cool, thanks guys for the quick response.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

I have a LEV ti that came with the fiber cable from the actuator to the post. Do these things tend to stretch a lot before breaking? The last 2 times out my post wouldn't drop till I adjusted the cable then it was fine. I went to move it last night and the post wouldn't drop. I haven't had time to mess with it yet but it seems that would be the weakest part in that system.


I know as soon as I have time I can pop the cable junction plate off and see if it works by manually actuating the dropper. I'm more or less curious if these cables are problematic. I know its not a cartridge issue but this thread seems to have the most knowledge on these posts by far.


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## jojotherider (May 20, 2009)

Just another post to say thanks for the instructions. Rebuilt mine the other day and no more sag.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

dirtrider76 said:


> I have a LEV ti that came with the fiber cable from the actuator to the post. Do these things tend to stretch a lot before breaking? The last 2 times out my post wouldn't drop till I adjusted the cable then it was fine. I went to move it last night and the post wouldn't drop. I haven't had time to mess with it yet but it seems that would be the weakest part in that system.
> 
> I know as soon as I have time I can pop the cable junction plate off and see if it works by manually actuating the dropper. I'm more or less curious if these cables are problematic. I know its not a cartridge issue but this thread seems to have the most knowledge on these posts by far.


I haven't had any experience with those yet so maybe you could answer a question I had about the fiber cable: Aside from the materiel it's made of, is it otherwise similar to a derailleure cable (ie does it have the same head at one end and such)? I don't totally understand why they switched to that system. If tightening or swapping the external cable DOESN'T resolve the issue, then your internal cable may be stretched/slipped.



jojotherider said:


> Just another post to say thanks for the instructions. Rebuilt mine the other day and no more sag.


You're welcome. Glad it worked out!

-Chris


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

It's lighter since there is no metal and IIRC only comes with the ti and carbon posts. The outer sleeve is solid plastic tube the cable is fiber inside a sleeve. A shifter cable is a direct replacement.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

OK its not the cable, post sticks in the fully upright position when it sits. I left it half mast to see if it sticks again. I pushed in the lever and whacked the seat a shot and it released on to work flawless all night.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

dirtrider76 said:


> It's lighter since there is no metal and IIRC only comes with the ti and carbon posts. The outer sleeve is solid plastic tube the cable is fiber inside a sleeve. A shifter cable is a direct replacement.


Weird. I think I prefer the simplicity of a shift cable. Though they are super heavy
Thanks for the info.



dirtrider76 said:


> OK its not the cable, post sticks in the fully upright position when it sits. I left it half mast to see if it sticks again. I pushed in the lever and whacked the seat a shot and it released on to work flawless all night.


Also weird. If it starts acting up again, I'd be suspicious that the internal cable is slightly off. I may sound like a broken record here but the post will have very inconsistent activation if that cable gets slightly off.

Keep us updated
-Chris


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

cakelly4 said:


> I may sound like a broken record here but the post will have very inconsistent activation if that cable gets slightly off.


Chris,

Just to be clear. What exactly do you mean by "off". There is a barrel adjuster, so if the length isn't right, a twist in one direction or the other should fix that issue, right? You mean something like the inner cable is frayed or otherwise compromised? Just want to be sure. Mine is new, and the action is a bit ... stiff. When it works, its great, but I can't reliably drop it 100% of the time. I tried tightening the cable, but that only resulted in sagging ( obviously partially activated ). Just want to be sure I"m not missing something.

I also have the newer cable/housing. not my fav to work with, but seems like it should work the same. ( cable nut end thing attaches slightly differently, but otherwise seemed the same ).


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

cakelly4 said:


> Weird. I think I prefer the simplicity of a shift cable. Though they are super heavy
> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Also weird. If it starts acting up again, I'd be suspicious that the internal cable is slightly off. I may sound like a broken record here but the post will have very inconsistent activation if that cable gets slightly off.
> ...


Whatever it is its only if the post sits fully up for a few days. I stopped leaving it all the way up no issue. I'm going to pull it apart and clean it the guide rods and see if that helps it. I had a issue once before with grit getting inside there.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

slcpunk said:


> Chris,
> 
> Just to be clear. What exactly do you mean by "off". There is a barrel adjuster, so if the length isn't right, a twist in one direction or the other should fix that issue, right? You mean something like the inner cable is frayed or otherwise compromised? Just want to be sure. Mine is new, and the action is a bit ... stiff. When it works, its great, but I can't reliably drop it 100% of the time. I tried tightening the cable, but that only resulted in sagging ( obviously partially activated ). Just want to be sure I"m not missing something.
> 
> I also have the newer cable/housing. not my fav to work with, but seems like it should work the same. ( cable nut end thing attaches slightly differently, but otherwise seemed the same ).


It could be the internal cable. If its not on the pulley wheel or in its groove it may take extra effort to actuate. I'd try and disconnect the external cable from the post and make sure it moves freely. If it doesn't well start there if it does you can pull the post and the lower cap and see if the internal cable moves freely inside the post.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

slcpunk said:


> Chris,
> 
> Just to be clear. What exactly do you mean by "off". There is a barrel adjuster, so if the length isn't right, a twist in one direction or the other should fix that issue, right? You mean something like the inner cable is frayed or otherwise compromised? Just want to be sure. Mine is new, and the action is a bit ... stiff. When it works, its great, but I can't reliably drop it 100% of the time. I tried tightening the cable, but that only resulted in sagging ( obviously partially activated ). Just want to be sure I"m not missing something.
> 
> I also have the newer cable/housing. not my fav to work with, but seems like it should work the same. ( cable nut end thing attaches slightly differently, but otherwise seemed the same ).


Yeah, so I was referring to the internal cable. If it becomes frayed/damaged or the barrel starts to slip, then it will only partially activate the post. This typically makes the post activate inconsistently. If it's mild, adjusting the external cable barrel adjustor can help compensate for this up to a certain point. After enough "stretch" however, external cable adjustment won't completely fix it anymore. This is because only so much slack can be picked up by the external cable because it (the internal cable) can only move so far in the junction box. Think of it this way: When internal cable length is perfect - if the barrel in the junction box is all the way up, the valve is closed and the post is locked in position. If the barrel in the junction box is all the way down, the valve is completely open and the post is completely unlocked. If the barrel is anywhere in between, the valve is only partially opened and the post is partially unlocked (but may not move as smoothly as when fully unlocked). If the internal cable is stretched/damaged enough, you may be able to tighten the external cable enough to make the post start sinking (partially unlocked) but still won't be able to get it to fully unlock when activating the lever (thus inconsistent/rough activation). I hope I didn't just make things more confusing. Since yours is new, I'm not sure this is exactly what's going on but just wanted to clarify.

How new is yours? 
How often does it get stuck up? 
Does the lever feel stiff when it gets stuck?
Are you sure you trimmed the exposed cable to the proper 22 mm?

Hope this is helpful and not too confusing. Admittedly, I confuse myself sometimes and I'm a little tired right now



dirtrider76 said:


> Whatever it is its only if the post sits fully up for a few days. I stopped leaving it all the way up no issue. I'm going to pull it apart and clean it the guide rods and see if that helps it. I had a issue once before with grit getting inside there.


Definitely a good place to start. I would clean everything out and relube the guide bushings, DU bushing, Wiper seal, and 1-way roller bearings w/ slick honey or KS post paste. I've also had times when water gets in there and makes activation rough.

Good Luck
-Chris


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## batizywells (Mar 28, 2007)

Hey guys, came accross this great thread while researching why my first generation LEV integra is sagging. Chris, have you attempted this rebuild on the first generation integra? Mine is different than the image you provided for the 2nd generation version, and not sure how to remove the actuator end from inside the shaft.

Thanks


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

batizywells,

I have not tried this yet however it's probably doable. Before you consider that however, have you checked with KS to see if you qualify for a free upgrade to the 2nd generation end cap? I've read other threads where they swapped it out at no cost. 

If not, send me a pic of the end of your post. May be able to figure it out. 

-Chris


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## batizywells (Mar 28, 2007)

Thanks Chris, I have not called them yet so I will give that a try tomorrow and report back on what they offer. 

The actuator is inside the shaft and has some spanner holes in there, maybe i can remove the actuator mechanism with some c-clip pliers.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I think it's very similar to removing the bottom of the 2nd generation - unthread the bottom assembly with the spanners, then same but I'm not sure. Definitely check with KS first since they'd likely replace your cartridge if they were already going to upgrade the end assembly (I could be very wrong about all of this).

Here's the thread that mentioned the upgrade:

http://forums.mtbr.com/all-mountain/ks-lev-integra-where-863686.html

Good luck
-Chris


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## batizywells (Mar 28, 2007)

Chris,

The c clip plier worked fine removing the actuator lever from inside the shaft. once that is out the process is almost exactly the same as for the other versions. I only needed to remove the hinge pin for the actator lever and slide a allen key though the slot to remove it from the damper assemply, after that all else went smoothly and the entire operation took less than an hour.

I did call KS but there was no live answer, so I left a voice mail. Time will tell if they respond or not, but based on what I've read it seems unlikely they will. I will update if they do respond.

Thanks again for all the information and PM if you want a reward for all the effort!

Paul


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. Glad it was straight forward. I'm assuming the sagging issue was resolved once complete? No reward necessary (though now my interest is peaked, haha).

-Chris


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## batizywells (Mar 28, 2007)

Sagging issue is gone, post works flawlessly again. I am intrigued at the prospect of the second generation version though, so hopefully KS returns my contact efforts. At least now when my boys posts sag I can fix them easily.

Thanks


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice! Let us know what KS says. It would be interesting to know if they'll swap it for you this far out. 

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm curious what KS 'fixed' from Gen 1 to gen2. I ask because I'm using the KS dropzone and it has been flawless since day one. That would be a generation behind the first LeV, but they still share the same design.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

If you read the thread that I linked above, you'll see the difference. This is in regards to the Integra (not the standard LEV) and the cable attachment point at the base. The older generation was faulty and the second generation resolved this.

-Chris


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

cakelly4 said:


> 1. This is the strap wrench that I have had great luck with.
> 
> 2. 99.9% sure you need to replace your internal cable.
> 
> ...


Chris! Would appreciate a 2nd opinion.
So I tore the post apart and replaced the kevlar cable, DU bushing and key bushings. That all went pretty well... although there were no isolater pellets included with my cables, so the grub screws are hitting the kevlar cable directly- hope thats OK. My post had some arrow markings on the outer tube which made getting the cable length correct very easy.

I did not tear down the actual cartridge/ change the oil.

The post is still "sticking" during compression. In my garage it felt fine, but in actual riding conditions it drops in like 1" increments (if at all) and then hangs up. It's taking 5-7 remote actuations to drop the post completely, very frustrating. Adjusting the cable tension did not help.

Could this be consistent with the cartridge needing to be bled?

Also, with new cartridges being ~$80, is it worth just replacing?

Thanks for your help!!!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

FM said:


> Chris! Would appreciate a 2nd opinion.
> So I tore the post apart and replaced the kevlar cable, DU bushing and key bushings. That all went pretty well... although there were no isolater pellets included with my cables, so the grub screws are hitting the kevlar cable directly- hope thats OK.


The isolator pellets are sold separately (dumb IMO). Unfortunately, no pellet is not OK. The grub screws will either allow the cable to eventually slip, or cut/fray it. I'd get some isolator pellets soon and redo it. If you look at my original post, there are some links to cheap kevlar kite string and "isolator pellets" (pellets will need some trimming but it's easy). I'll explain below why this may be worth doing anyway.



FM said:


> My post had some arrow markings on the outer tube which made getting the cable length correct very easy.


Another reason why the kevlar kite string/pellets may be worthwhile - I'll explain below



FM said:


> I did not tear down the actual cartridge/ change the oil.


Good call. May not be necessary yet.



FM said:


> The post is still "sticking" during compression. In my garage it felt fine, but in actual riding conditions it drops in like 1" increments (if at all) and then hangs up. It's taking 5-7 remote actuations to drop the post completely, very frustrating. Adjusting the cable tension did not help.
> 
> Could this be consistent with the cartridge needing to be bled?


I suppose it's possible, but there is a test you should do first. Dismantle the post again like you did to replace all the bushings, etc. Take the cartridge and place the activation rod and piston (the little cap that goes on the end of the rod) in place within the small shaft. You don't need to thread the actuator assembly back on. Use your work bench to activate the piston/rod and see how the activation feels - it should slide up and down smoothly because the work bench will be fully activating it. If there is no sticking there, I'd still be very suspicious of your internal cable. Those arrows are great guidelines, but don't always work perfectly.

This is where the kevlar kite string and fake isolator pellets are helpful - it took me a few times doing this to get the perfect technique with perfect activation. I was getting frustrated because I used the arrows and wasn't getting smooth actuation either. I'd either have to bump the saddle or unweight it slightly/shift weight/etc. to get it to go down properly.

Here's my preferred technique to get this right:

1. Get a piece of kevlar link cable or kite string ready with one end barrel (with pellet) firmly attached to 1 end.
2. Run it through the post and pull it snugly, then tape it to the outside of the post.
3. Reassemble the cartridge into the post as usual. Be sure to replace the bottom out bumper, push rod, piston, and actuator assembly.
4. Attach another end barrel (with pellet) onto the cable but don't tighten it all the way. Leave it slightly snug but loose enough that you can slide it up and down the cable.
5. At this point, I attach the the coupler (claw end of external cable) to the barrel in the junction box).
6. With the external remote attached at the junction box, I then pull the other end very snug and place the other barrel (that isn't tightened onto the cable yet) in the actuator assembly.
7. Now hold onto the excess cable and slide the slightly loose barrel up the cable until it snugs the lever elbow up tight against the piston WITHOUT depressing it.
8. Tighten the grub screw.
9. Trim the excess cable - I often leave 1/2 cm hanging out in case I get the cable to tight and need to loosen the barrel and back it off a bit (though I haven't had to do it with this technique).
10. Be sure to purge the air as directed in the KS video when reinstalling the end cap (let me know if you don't know what I'm referring to)

This technique works great for me.



FM said:


> Also, with new cartridges being ~$80, is it worth just replacing?
> 
> Thanks for your help!!!


I have seriously considered doing this just to have an extra cartridge. It would allow me to swap it out quickly, then service the sagging cartridge later. The service has been so successful and easy though that I just haven't done it.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Long day at work. Try the steps above and let me know how things go.

-Chris


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

Thanks again for your help Chris! 

I took it down to the cartridge again, everything checked out. Cartridge was fine, and with the cover removed the cable actuation seemed to work fine too. weird.

I adjusted the cord to be about .5mm shorter,
removed the excessive grease and added some thick oil, 
Drilled a very small vent hole in the bottom cap. I couldn't see any reason not to do this, besides contamination... and it's a tiny hole.

I do think I had enough grease on the bottom cap threads, that it may have had trapped air in the bottom cap (your step #10 above), creating an air spring. With some oil added/less greas and the new vent hole, action is much faster.

Seems really good now!

I'll order up some string and isolater pellets just in case....


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice! Glad to hear everything worked out. 

-Chris


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## batizywells (Mar 28, 2007)

Chris

KS called me on Friday and have offered to replace my first generation Integra internals with the updated second generation internals, Should take a week or so including shipping. So I think I will wait until we return to winter here on the front range before I send it back for replacement, or just keep running it since the only issues I've had were related to sagging and now that's easy to fix.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Excellent! It's never bad to get new stuff for free. I think the main upgrade is the cable attachment point which appears to be a cleaner design. I completely understand waiting until the off season. Thanks for the update!

Chris


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks for the guide, it's great.

However, I'm curious as to how you are meant to get the DU bushing out without damaging. Following this, and KS's video, my bushing ended up with 3 burrs in it, where the copper guide bushings contacted it and pushed it out. 

What have I done wrong? I'll have to replace the part now.

EDIT: the new DU bushings have these marks too. What's the point of them - do I need to line them up with the guides?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You may need to include a photo of what you're describing. I thought I knew what you meant until you said the new one has them. 

Yes, the copper guide bushings will slightly mar the DU bushing when you dismantle it. Actually they mildly damage the DU bushing every time your post is activated and slams into the up position. Either way, it's usually mild enough to not be a problem however occasionally you will see the inner coated ring separate from the DU bushing body (second to last photo between step 7 and 8). 

As far as preventing it, there's not really a good way. I used to loosen the DU bushing a little first with channel locks (pic right before step 8) so that it would pop out easier, however I don't recommend it since you could end up damaging the coated stanchion.

Now I keep a few DU bushings around and replace them if needed. I've never seen any grooves in the new ones so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

-Chris


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks for the reply Chris,

Please see attached the photo. The 'burrs' I'm talking about can be seen evenly spaced around the circumference of the teflon split ring (note they appear on the opposite side of what you'd expect, because I had to repress the split ring back into the outer, and I put it back in the opposite way around).

What you are saying makes sense to me (damage caused during post operation and du bush removal) but I can see these little indentations in online pictures of a new bushing!

Also, I'm not confident with reusing the bushing with these marks, because they not only upset the teflon surface, they actually protrude 'inwards' and would appear to produce an uneven bushing surface and the potential for play and also scratching of the stanchion. Would this not be the case?

I was going to replace the du bushing anyway, after bring one of the unlucky ones whose du bushing came on in two parts. However it just seems silly I can't take my post apart without damaging this part every time (whether by loosening with channel locks, or popping out with guide force)?!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yeah, so those burrs are very mild compared to some of the DU bushings I've had in my own posts. I've had some pretty banged up DU bushings for very long durations (longer than I should have) and yet the posts had smooth activation and still have no scratches on the stanchions. That being said, if the inner ring pops out, you are right to replace it immediately. I pressed one back in and my friend used it temporarily while we waited for a replacement and it slowed the activation significantly because it was too snug after that. 

The good news is that it doesn't usually separate like that when you dismantle it. The only times that has happened to me were with posts that hadn't ever been serviced and were likely a little overdue for it. If you service it periodically (not the cartridge, just cleaning and lubing the gliding surfaces) the DU bushing will come out fairly easily.

Also, the brand new DU bushing I have as a back up does not have any burrs/indents so I'm guessing the photo you saw somewhere online was already lightly used and started getting burred. It doesn't take long. I think some posts (e.g., Xfusion, GD) have a small replaceable bumper that the guide bushings slam in to. In the LEVs case, the DU bushing is also the bumper I guess.

-Chris


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Great, it all makes sense now! Cheers. It's good to know I can probably run something like the above, or worse, for a reasonable period without damage.

It was the first time this post had been serviced - I had fun getting the actuator assembly off as well. Great fun.

Would you recommend putting a little slicko around the seating area for that DU bushing, to aid future removal? Or is that risky, because it could lead to it popping out during general use?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

rhys.l said:


> Would you recommend putting a little slicko around the seating area for that DU bushing, to aid future removal? Or is that risky, because it could lead to it popping out during general use?


That's exactly what I do and there's no chance of it popping out because the top collar actually holds it in place.

-Chris


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

hey Chris, thanks for doing this. I can't imagine how many thousands of calls & warranty claims you have saved KS. they owe you BIG time.

So, do you think it make sense to replace all the o-rings and the DU bushing every time you do a service? would that help prolong the time until the next rebuild? for such a small investment I thought while I was in there I might as well.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. While the post seems to work for a long time without replacing the seals, it's probably a good idea to swap them out when servicing (if you're servicing because it failed/began sagging). If you're servicing it just to do an oil change with no significant failure, you'd likely be fine not swapping the seals but like you said, they're cheap. On that note, I need to update the seal specs. I just realized that one of my specs is slightly off. The o-ring labeled as 1.8x16 was just slightly too big and I believe it should be a 1.8x15 instead. I haven't confirmed this yet but plan to do so soon. It's not one of the key players in failure anyway but just FYI. The rest of the specs are correct. 

As for the DU bushing, I don't replace that one until the Teflon surface looks banged up. I do recommend always having a spare on hand before you take the post apart though. This will prevent you from having to wait for a replacement if yours happens to break during service (whether you're servicing the cartridge or just cleaning/relubing the glide surfaces.

Hope this helps. 
-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Update:

My IFP quad rings finally blew out this past weekend on my KS Dropzone. This is still relevant to LEV owners as both posts share the same IFP design and same size quad rings. In addition, the piston shaft quad ring is also the same. The air mixed with the oil internally but did not escape the cartridge so I determined that the internal seal head o-rings are still good.

Luckily for me I was just leaving the woods and heading to my car when it happened. I felt a sorta "pop", then I sank down. 

Not a huge deal if it happened way back in the woods, but it is pretty cold right now and I prefer not removing my gloves while riding. For those curious, if this does happen to you, you can extend the post back to full height and use the Rockshox silver collar thing. Tighten it down really good on the bottom of the stanchion shaft. It will hold the saddle up and now you just have a normal seat post to get you out of the woods.

All in all, I was pleased. 122 hours of use in total. I live in the midwest so I see very cold and very warm temperatures. We may not get the coldest or the hottest, but I bet the midwest sees the biggest flux in temperature. These IFP quad seals were used in 100F weather this past summer and all the way down to -1F this winter. I've already had 20 rides in sub freezing temps this winter and I actively used my dropper post (activating it. Not just keeping it at full extension) for all of those rides. I'm definitely a believer now in the quad ring design for these parts. If I was on my Reverb still, the o-rings would have gone bad well before the 122 hours I got out of the Kindshock. 

I could have simply done a re-grease and refresh on the oil, but again, I'm a firm believer that when this happens, it is time to change the o-rings or quad rings or it will probably happen again soon. It is tough to see wear on the quad rings compared to new ones, but you can see it if you look closely enough. No way for me to take a picture unless I had a high quality camera. Much more telling is the oil color. The Rockshox 2.5wt oil is pink when new. The color of my oil yellowish/tanish colored. In addition, there was a black "fog" floating around. O-ring scuz. Make no mistake, these o-rings do go bad over time. Best to just replace them.

Speaking of which, I went to theoringstore.com to order up some more since I was pretty low on my quad rings. Right NOW is the time to buy! I guess this store has an overstock of quad rings. They are only $0.12 each! Typically the quads are $1 to $1.50 each. I bought 20 of each quad I needed including the quads that are used in my fork and rear shock. Might as well. I should never need any more than I have at this point. It is super cheap right now to get all you'll need for a very long time.


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## Udi (Jan 25, 2008)

Hi Chris (or other),
Is it possible to loosen and slide up the DU bushing and its silver "holder" using channel locks or similar (with great care obviously) without the rest of the disassembly? What happens if one unthreads the sealhead/collar and extends the post to hard topout, will it dislodge the bushing and holder - or will the cartridge top out on itself before it can do that?

I believe a big issue with regreasing these externally (as many do regularly) is that the seal and upper side of the bushing is greased, but very little makes it to the guide pin / bearing assembly below. I think what would be ideal (as an intermediate service step to what you've described) is if you could relubricate the mechanisms below the DU bushing without full diassembly, as you could do it more regularly and potentially decrease wear on those pins/seats (and thus play development rate) as a result.

However this would involve being able to slide the DU bushing assembly up the shaft easily, which I'm sure can't be too hard to achieve.

I do understand excess lubrication in that area may cause other issues, but I think it could still be useful to be able to access directly instead of packing above the bushing with slick honey and hoping some of it gets past the bushing.

Appreciate your thoughts, as I've got a brand new 2015 (black shaft) integra and don't need/want to pull it apart just yet.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Udi, I understand what you are asking.

Do you have a strap wrench? If so, this should be fairly simple. I wouldn't even bother taking my post out of my bike for this service. Unscrew the top cap with your strap wrench and slide it up the stanchion. Then, take a really thin flat head screw driver or xacto blade and carefully start to pry up the DU bushing and slide it up the stanchion as well. That should expose the 3 grooved slots in the lower post. Maybe put some slick honey into a syringe and inject it into those grooves. The 3 brass keys will naturally "run" into the injected slick honey as you use the post and re-lube.

Personally, I still wouldn't do this more than once in between rebuilds, mainly because those brass keys are constantly wearing. I'm sure you've noticed the old grease in your post takes on a strong gold color over time. That's the brass wearing away from the keys. I like getting that all cleaned out before putting fresh slick honey.


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## Udi (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks, yes I have a strap wrench, however my seal head / cap unscrews by hand. Does it really need to be tighter than this? I don't see the need for the strap wrench in this particular scenario.

I will try what you describe, it's exactly what I want to do. In hindsight I suspect topping out the post with the cap off (as I suggested earlier) is a bad idea because it might pop the bushing out of the bushing holder instead of the entire part coming out, so I suppose the best bet is the thin blade as you describe or the channel locks as Chris describes.


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## Udi (Jan 25, 2008)

On another note, I strongly believe that slick honey is not the best grease for the deeper internals of this post, even though it is ideal for the seal and DU bushing.

The reason for this is that slick honey is primarily a seal grease designed to reduce breakaway friction, but the guide pins in the KS post are under high metal-on-metal loads and ideally should be coated in a grease that:

a) Has a high level of extreme-pressure resistance (EP) 
b) Has an ability to maintain lubrication after a significant amount of the product has been wiped away from the actual load bearing interface

I know the brass keys are designed to wear, however I have seen on many posts the hard anodizing in the stanchion grooves is also wearing, which I presume is a contributor to the permanent play that these posts develop over time (and is not present when new). I suspect this is unavoidable but can be reduced with:

a) A more suitable grease, and;
b) Changing the key pins at suitable intervals - in my opinion at any time a complete service is done or required.

The reason for this is that as those pins wear, their contact area against mating parts is reduced. This localised loading means the force per contact area on both the pins and the parts they mate with increases. In layman's terms, the more the pins have worn, the more they will also wear the parts they contact (such as the grooves in the stanchion).

A friend (under my suggestion) is running the guide pins on a 3% Molybdenum / Lithium complex EP grease (NLGI #2 consistency, same as slick honey) - a common grease available under many brand names, with the regular slick honey for the parts further up, and apparently it is working great. Some mixing will occur but I can't envision any real detriment, I will try it myself to confirm.

The potential benefit is that the pins are better separated from the stanchion under load by the EP properties of the grease, and the Molybdenum will help maintain protection after some grease has been pushed away. It should decrease wear on pins and mating parts.

The potential downside is a marginal increase in stiction, but I suspect there will be products out there that will provide better protection than slick honey without affecting the sliding performance too much.

(edit - slickoleum / slick honey does have claim to have EP additives but I'm dubious the level is nearly as high as a regular EP grease)

Grease aside though, I think those looking for maximum post longevity should replace the guide pins (and the DU bushing if any looseness is present) on full services for the reasons above, worn parts will encourage further wear.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Great info on the grease, Udi! You have me curious now. I do always have a spare set of brass keys and a DU bushing ready to go at a moment's notice. I have no problem feeling flat spots on my brass keys after a little over a half year's use. I also noticed the same on my Rockshox Reverb.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Udi said:


> In hindsight I suspect topping out the post with the cap off (as I suggested earlier) is a bad idea because it might pop the bushing out of the bushing holder instead of the entire part coming out, so I suppose the best bet is the thin blade as you describe or the channel locks as Chris describes.


I agree this is a bad idea but for a different reason. If you do this without removing the actuator assembly (attached to the inner stanchion) you'll top out the inner stanchion which I imagine could cause internal damage. I also don't recommend using channel locks to remove the DU bushing. I suggested it to loosen the bushing slightly but even that is risky. I'd worry that you'd cause repeated marring to the outer surface of the DU metal or worse yet, the stanchion. You could certainly try prying it and squirting some grease down in as Laterilus mentioned but I wouldn't try lifting the post any higher once the top cap is removed (which by the way is fine to simply hand tighten).

Interesting thoughts on the grease. I have been under the thought that Slick Honey is similar to KS post paste, both of which are said to be OK in at least one of the KS service videos. I agree that the brass key notches get worn which likely plays a role in developing rotational play. I also have suspicions that the one-way roller bearing gets worn which also contributes. The roller bearing is replaceable but I have'nt found one in stock to try the swap (otherwise I would be adding that to the DIY.

-Chris


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## banzonam (Feb 9, 2012)

Universal Cycles -- Kind Shock Seatpost Service Parts

Looks like roller bearings are in stock. I just ordered a new DU bushing and bottom out bumper Monday and saw these, too.


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## Udi (Jan 25, 2008)

Laterilus -
I think when you start feeling flat spots it's definitely wise to replace those brass keys. If the anodizing on the stanchion's grooves weren't wearing then I don't think it would be critical to replace them, but the fact that those grooves are wearing suggests to me that it's worth maintaining maximum pin diameter and roundness if possible, to alleviate localised (and thus higher) loads on the stanchion.

For interest's sake, I did some research and the grease I recommended (Lithium Complex EP grease with 3% Molybdenum) is compatible with the Calcium base used in Slick Honey, so it shouldn't cause any harm if they mix a bit in use.

Chris -
Yeah fair call. I was actually mostly just curious if it was possible to pop it up without removing the post, and it sounds like it is. As for the grease, I am unsure of the formulation of KS post paste (only the slick honey / slickoleum) but there are definitely better suited options for the bearing and guide pins for those looking to maximise wear life of those parts.

Do you think there is any way to have the post top out on a bumper? It seems the post tops out via the guide pins smashing into the base of the DU bushing which seems less than ideal because of the slight damage done to the bushing (correct me if I'm wrong on that). I'm guessing the cartridge isn't designed to deal with topout forces? Otherwise surely they would have used a rubber topout bumper.

Also out of curiosity, are there any changes to the 2015 (black) post mechanically, or is it purely cosmetic?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

banzonam said:


> Universal Cycles -- Kind Shock Seatpost Service Parts
> 
> Looks like roller bearings are in stock. I just ordered a new DU bushing and bottom out bumper Monday and saw these, too.


Nice!! I guess clicking on the "Notify When Available" link didn't work. Last time I checked they were still out. Thanks!



Udi said:


> Do you think there is any way to have the post top out on a bumper? It seems the post tops out via the guide pins smashing into the base of the DU bushing which seems less than ideal because of the slight damage done to the bushing (correct me if I'm wrong on that). I'm guessing the cartridge isn't designed to deal with topout forces? Otherwise surely they would have used a rubber topout bumper.
> 
> Also out of curiosity, are there any changes to the 2015 (black) post mechanically, or is it purely cosmetic?


I've been thinking lately that a nylon washer between the DU bushing and copper guides would be a perfect way to decrease the constant trauma to the DU bushing. I definitely think it's possible and should only cost you a few millimeters of full extension. Other posts seem to do this (GD and Hilo I think do).

I haven't serviced any of the black stanchioned posts but my guess is that it's purely cosmetic with the same internals. Hopefully someone will service one some day and provide some feedback. If anyone wants to buy me one, I'd be happy to dismantle it

Interesting idea regarding the wrench flats for the DU and good info on the grease. Let us know how that grease feels when you try it out. Thanks for the feedback.

-Chris


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## Udi (Jan 25, 2008)

If anyone is interested, 30.9x125mm LEV integra 2015 black with lever and all new/uncut cables weighed 545g, I think more like 535-540g once cut.



cakelly4 said:


> I've been thinking lately that a nylon washer between the DU bushing and copper guides would be a perfect way to decrease the constant trauma to the DU bushing. I definitely think it's possible and should only cost you a few millimeters of full extension. Other posts seem to do this (GD and Hilo I think do).


This is exactly what I was thinking too, that way the topout forces are still on the same part as stock. Let me know if you find something that fits, I'd definitely be keen to install one. I'd imagine 1.5-2mm is plenty.

My friend who rebuilt his last week (rhys.l who posted recently asking about the marks on the DU bushing) is already running the moly grease in his KS post (just in the lower part, coating those brass pins) with the regular slick honey around the DU bushing and seal area, he says it feels great. I'll try it myself when I need to do a full overhaul - I tried to pry the bushing up from the outside (with cap unthreaded) but it seems to be in there quite tightly.

I'll take some pictures when I pull the 2015 apart (will wait a few rides), but I'm sure like you say it's only changed cosmetically.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Update for me. I performed the service as Chris described - but without replacing any seals in the fall and it worked flawlessly for a few hundred km before putting it away for the winter. A dry winter has me putting my fatbike away for a bit and bringing my trail bike (with Lev) out. It worked fine in rides above freezing and recently became soft again after a couple of rides in colder sub-freezing weather (2" of squish). 

Since it's winter and I have all the time in the world I'm just going to send it in for warranty and hope that I get upgraded seals in the deal. I still appreciate the work Chris has put into this as I know I could get it working again quickly on my own if I needed it sooner.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

I'm in the middle of servicing my post for the first time. Some DU observations I thought might help others first timers...

You may want to try the "pull with force" approach to popping the DU bushing first, before loosening with pliers. I tried pliers first, because it made good sense to me to loosen it a bit. However, my pliers were marring the outer surface and I was getting really nervous about messing up the top cap threads and/or scratching the stanchion. So I decided to bite the bullet and give it a good "pop" and it came out a lot easier than I expected. Certainly less force than it suffers during a full extension in normal use. I also have 2 spare bushings on hand, so that was nice peace of mind.


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## gauthier (Aug 2, 2011)

Hi Chris,



cakelly4 said:


> Hey Gauthier. OK. A couple of questions:
> 
> 1. Did you do the extra steps when putting the end cap back on in order to purge the air between the cartridge and post body? This is the step where you thread the cap on almost all the way except for 1-2mm, then activate the post. Then while in the down position, finish tightening the end cap. It won't work properly if you skip this. If you forgot to tighten the cap the rest of the way, it may slowly sink/rise.


Actually, the issue with the seatpost was it started rising itself hence I decided to service it.
I did this step carefully, even keep it compressed while tightening the end cap but it didn't help; the seatpost still rises.


cakelly4 said:


> 2. While you had the cartridge out of the post, did you try installing the push rod and actuator assembly to test activation? If it works smoothly there but not when reinstalled into the post body, then you likely need to adjust the link cable (the internal one). If it does not work smoothly, then there's likely something off in the cartridge and you may need to try it again.


It worked smoothly but still expand; I'm wondering if the actuator might be the origin of the problem. It should stop the oil flow in both direction ( compressiong/decompression ) but it let a flow pass when it's compressed.
When you press the push rod, does it come back quickly ? ( mine takes ~1 second ).

Thanks for your help, I suspect a leak somewhere ... but where ?

Gauthier
Let me know and I'll try to help some more if those ideas don't help.

Good luck
-Chris[/QUOTE]


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

If the inner shaft is extending on its own when you have the cartridge removed, I agree that it's likely something internal. I'm guessing that something is keeping the valve open. 

If you feel like dismantling the cartridge again, you should check the valve end of the inner rod. If you use the push rod and piston (the little cap for the push rod) to activate the valve, you can see the valve opening and closing when you look through the small holes of the valve end. Look for small bits of debris stuck in there and/or use an air compressor to clean it out. On my older LEV, there were small bits of plastic trapped in there at one point and it was making the valve stick. The plastic came from one of the plastic rings on the valve assembly (not the backup split washers but the other weird thing). 

Anyway, that's definitely worth checking if the post is extending the way you describe. Let me know if that makes sense and what you find if you try it. 

Good luck
-Chris


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Hey guys, to oversimplify, the rebuild steps seem to be disassemble then reassemble. Just curious at what step are we eliminating and fixing the problem of air in the oil? I suspect it's during the death defying step 10?


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

I've found this very helpfull tread today when doing maintenance on my LEV and get jammed on the step 5 (below).



cakelly4 said:


> Step 5: Remove the LEV from the soft jaws, protect the exposed shaft with a portion of rubber inner tube, then place it in the soft jaws and snug it just enough to prevent the shaft from rotating while you loosen the actuator assembly with a wrench. Alternatively, you could use a rubberized soft jaws like this:
> 
> **THIS STEP MAY BE VERY DIFFICULT DUE TO A STRONG THREAD LOCK ADHESIVE - THE ACTUATOR LEVER IS A SOFT METAL AND CAN BEND EASILY - TAKE CARE NOT TO DAMAGE IT - ** (((EDIT))): LESS TOOLS ARE BETTER HERE IF POSSIBLE - SOME ACTUATORS MAY NOT BE AS DIFFICULT TO REMOVE AS OTHERS - VICRIDER222 RECOMMENDS THIS TECHNIQUE: "You will get as much if not more grip by putting on a clean, tight fitting household latex glove and grabbing the degreased shaft with your hand&#8230;keep your thumb out, place the shaft along the base of your 4 fingers and close them. Squeeze them as tight as you can, then turn the actuator base with your other hand"


I have no soft jaws on hand. I degreased the shaft with isoprolpyl and used strap wrench but no success. I wrapped the shaft with a piece of inner tube, held it firmly by hand but it didn't help either. Once I've read on the first page that there could be a threadlock used in threads, I used hair dryer (hot air gun can be used too) to heat the end of the shaft. That softens the threadlock. And voila, using the piece of inner tube and holding by hand I turned off the actuator quite easily.



Laterilus said:


> ... Then, take a really thin flat head screw driver or xacto blade and carefully start to pry up the DU bushing and slide it up the stanchion as well. That should expose the 3 grooved slots in the lower post...


I use old (and quite dull) cutlery knife and soft hammer (or a piece of wood) to make a initial gap for further pry. I tap the knife carefully while sliding it around the seatpost just under the silver alu collar (DU). It works well.



cakelly4 said:


> ... You just need to twist the DU Bushing slightly in order to make sure it's not seized before giving the firm pull mentioned in Step 7. BE SUPER CAREFUL IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO THIS AS YOU CAN EASILY SCRATCH THE STANCHION - I KEEP SPARE DU BUSHINGS AROUND BECAUSE I PREFER TO REPLACE IF THEY BREAK RATHER THAN RISK SCRATCHING THE POST
> 
> 
> 
> ... Interesting idea regarding the wrench flats for the DU ...


I'm not sure if this is the same idea I'got too - I'm going to make 2 opposite flats for the wrench on the milling machine to enable further easier release of the collar.

Just my 2 cents...


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

RTM said:


> Hey guys, to oversimplify, the rebuild steps seem to be disassemble then reassemble. Just curious at what step are we eliminating and fixing the problem of air in the oil? I suspect it's during the death defying step 10?


Haha. STEP 10 WILL KILL YOU!

To answer your question:

You're temporarily fixing it when you replace the oil and rebuild it because you now have air and oil separated the way they should be.

You're more "permanently" fixing it when you replace the seals (which are listed in the OP), especially the inner and outer IFP seals as this is likely the location of failure.

-Chris


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

*Supernatural/Dropzone*

Guys, I'm rebuilding my Supernatural and I'm confused. Where does the IFP go, all the way toward the seatpost clamp?

Also, where does the oil go?

Thanks.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

69tr6r said:


> Guys, I'm rebuilding my Supernatural and I'm confused. Where does the IFP go, all the way toward the seatpost clamp?
> 
> Also, where does the oil go?
> 
> Thanks.


Prepare to be a little frustrated but don't worry, you'll get it working. I posted a pic and some information on the differences of the Supernatural in the original post. In the exploded view, the IFP is pictured on the wrong end.

-You want to have the IFP on the inner tube and place it into the cartridge
-Then use a thin rod/dowel to push the IFP all the way down in (toward the saddle). 
-You will then fill the inner tube only with oil. This is opposite the LEV because the air and oil chambers are swapped due to the actuator being at the opposite end. 
-Then insert the small stanchion into the inner tube while depressing the actuator lever against your work bench. You will insert it just enough to be able to screw the cartridge end cap back on. 
-Then the fun part of adding air.

Let me know if you're still having problems.

-Chris


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

cakelly4 said:


> Prepare to be a little frustrated but don't worry, you'll get it working. I posted a pic and some information on the differences of the Supernatural in the original post. In the exploded view, the IFP is pictured on the wrong end.
> 
> -You want to have the IFP on the inner tube and place it into the cartridge
> -Then use a thin rod/dowel to push the IFP all the way down in (toward the saddle).
> ...


Thanks for the reply Chris. I did the procedure before winter, but didn't change any O-rings and the post still didn't work. Now I have replaced all of the O-rings and when I was putting it back together I thought I remembered the procedure, which is just as you describe.

I got the IFP onto the inner tube without too much trouble - used a metal pick to gently work the inner quad seal over the edge of the inner tube. Then i pushed the inner tube/IFP assembly into the seatpost (is this what you referred to as cartridge?). Then I used some home electrical wire to push the IFP all the way towards the actuator assembly. No problem.

I filled the inner tube only with 5W fork oil, no issues at all. When I look at that full tube of oil, it tells me that when I push the small stanchion into it, the oil will spill over the sides. Is this ok? I'm assuming that once I have it fully inserted, I would dump out the oil that overflowed when inserting it.

Also, when you say "You will insert it just enough to be able to screw the cartridge end cap back on." So does that mean insert it so the quad O-ring and teflon washers are just inside the inner tube?

I managed to get a good air fill the last time I did this, so I'm hoping it will be the same this time around.

Thanks again!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

69tr6r said:


> Then i pushed the inner tube/IFP assembly into the seatpost (is this what you referred to as cartridge?).


Yeah. Technically, the cartridge or "oil stick" is the stanchion containing the oil with the smaller stanchion tube sliding in and out of it



69tr6r said:


> When I look at that full tube of oil, it tells me that when I push the small stanchion into it, the oil will spill over the sides. Is this ok? I'm assuming that once I have it fully inserted, I would dump out the oil that overflowed when inserting it.


That is correct, and yes, I believe I was able to dump the spill-over oil out (it's been a while since I serviced the Supernatural).



69tr6r said:


> Also, when you say "You will insert it just enough to be able to screw the cartridge end cap back on." So does that mean insert it so the quad O-ring and teflon washers are just inside the inner tube?


I believe that's what I did - possibly inserted it to the green nylon ring (seen in the exploded view of the SN in my post). I believe if it's not inserted far enough, you won't be able to thread the end cap back on. Laterilus has the Dropzone (same internals) and may be able to recall this better.



69tr6r said:


> I managed to get a good air fill the last time I did this, so I'm hoping it will be the same this time around.
> 
> Thanks again!


You're welcome and good luck. If you run into any problems, just let me know.

-Chris


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## hball (May 22, 2004)

hi guys,

great thread an would like to ask a quick questions.

i do have a brand new lev integra 150. when fully extended it sinks about 1mm when seating on the saddle. thats ok and i can live with that.
but what is super anoying is that the post, in all the between positions all the way, does that too with a "klocking" sound when unweighted and weighted again.
that sound is not to hear when the post is fully extended or all the way down.
any ideas whats wrong?

thanks in advance!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I have not experienced that one before. If it sags a little in every position, it may be the cartridge but I'm not certain. 

Other things to check:

1) Make sure the bottom assembly is screwed in all the way
2) Make sure the top collar is not loose
3) Make sure your saddle clamps are tightened appropriately (10 N)
4) Make sure your cable and housing are set up properly with proper length - one thing that is always helpful to try is to disconnect the cable and ride it to see if it still malfunctions without the cable attached. In your case, you should try this with the seat in a midway position in order to appreciate if it's clicking or not. 

If none of this works, it may need to go through your warranty. 

Good luck and keep us updated. 

-Chris


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

hey Chris, I just completed my first rebuild. based on the workbench test all is well! couldn't have done it without you.

I had a few suggestions I thought I'd share.

Step 13: I filled the cartridge with oil about half way up the threads then rapidly tapped the side of the cartridge with a plastic stick to drive all the tiny air bubbles out of the oil. It took about 30 seconds until they stopped coming.



>


Step 14b: before inserting the damper into the cartridge...I put an ounce or so of oil into a small container, submersed the actuator piston, closed and opened the piston several times and swirled it around a bit to flush out air bubbles and fill it with oil. closed the piston, placed it in the cartridge until the first ring of holes at the bottom were submersed in oil, then opened the piston and pushed it in the rest of the way. It may be overkill but I hate air bubbles.



> Step 14 b: While depressing the actuator piston to open the valve, insert the damper assembly through the oil and down into the inner metal tube of the cartridge assembly just until the gold coated part is leveled with the top end of the inner tube. Oil should be overflowing as you do this, which should prevent air in the chamber.


Step 14b: whenever possible I start a bolt/nut by hand. Turns out you can do so with the cap as well. Push it into place and give it a spin with a good amount of downward force and tight clamping grip between finger and thumb. Recommend a glove for this one. The top edge is a bit sharp and slippery. Didn't draw blood but it did put a shallow slice in the skin. I managed to get my cap almost entirely threaded before using the pliers for the final 2 turns. a) you won't cross thread and b) keeps the pliers away from the stanchion for as long as possible.



> Step 14 b: Tighten the cap using the snap ring pliers. **USE CAUTION WHEN TIGHTENING THIS AS THE CAP TENDS TO WANT TO CROSS THREAD**


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Awesome. Im glad it worked out. Those are all great points, too. Things I tend to do but didn't mention in the thread.

-Chris


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

cakelly4 said:


> Yeah. Technically, the cartridge or "oil stick" is the stanchion containing the oil with the smaller stanchion tube sliding in and out of it
> 
> That is correct, and yes, I believe I was able to dump the spill-over oil out (it's been a while since I serviced the Supernatural).
> 
> ...


OK, I filled the inner tube with oil, then zip tied the actuator lever. Then I inserted the small stanchion tube, but it pushes the IFP tube out when it gets low enough to thread the end cap on, so then it blocks the end cap.

EDIT - I got it assembled. The IFP tube must not have been all the way seated. I pushed really hard on the end cap, which was pushing on the IFP tube, it popped and slid down another little bit. Enough to get the end cap on.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. Glad I saw your edit. I was really lost on that one. Makes sense now and I'm glad it worked out. Is the post working OK now that it's assembled?

-Chris


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

cakelly4 said:


> Haha. Glad I saw your edit. I was really lost on that one. Makes sense now and I'm glad it worked out. Is the post working OK now that it's assembled?
> 
> -Chris


I didn't add air yet, ran out of time. I really want to make an easier way to fill it. I might mess around in Solidworks tomorrow and do something with the 3D printer at work. I'm just wondering if the material can handle the pressure we're dealing with. I'll bet the right design can handle it.

Thanks.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yeah, that part is a bit tricky. I've had good luck using a piece of the inner plastic tubing of derailleur cable housing. The 3D printer idea sounds pretty cool though. Let us know how that goes.

-Chris


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

hey guys, I'm struggling a bit to get the post back to 'bike ready'. the bottom collar slides to the position shown below and just stops dead. I know the tolerance should be tight but this doesn't seem normal. obviously the collar was "home" at one time so I know it has to go back somehow. has anyone else experienced this? before I bust out the rubber mallet I wanted to ask for advice.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yes, I experience it with my older LEV and will soon experience it on my newer one I imagine. The collar gets a little bent and therefore pinches the top as you're trying to slide it up. What I have been doing that works well is simply using the rest of the saddle clamp assembly and bolts to press it back in place. Just be sure you have the cradle facing the direction you want it and locked on with the valve cap, then gradually tighten the bolts evenly. It's a bit of a pain but works well. You can also order a new collar and replace it but I suspect they all bend a little eventually. 

-Chris


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

*what the!?*

"the red one is for Enduro..."


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. The red is also alloy and in my opinion fits a little better. And TOTALLY enduro. 

-Chris


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Update - All set, post works great!!!

So after replacing all of the seals and putting it back together with fresh oil I had to figure out a way to add pressure. I was going to design a pressure fitting and maybe print in 3D, but I'm pressed for time and I wanted to ride. Plus I found a good way to add air if you have 2 people.

I clipped a small piece of electrical wire, stripped the insulation and stuck it in the pressure fill hole. It was a tight fit, but I think that makes it a better seal. I then held the end of my shock pump with a basketball inflator needle pressed against the insulation to make a face seal. I also soldered the secondary hole on the inflator needle so that air is only able to come out of the tip.

A buddy pumped up the pressure to about 250psi, not sure if that's real pressure or not since the internal O-ring acts as a check valve. But the bottom line is the post works great, not too fast, or too slow and very repeatable. 

Thanks again for all the help Chris.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice. Glad it worked out. The pressure is probably accurate since the pressure in the post and shock pump equalize as you're adding air. Since 150-250 is the LEV range, I tend to use the same pressures for the Supernatural so you should be all set.

-Chris


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## cobellig (Mar 20, 2015)

cakelly4 said:


> Nice. Glad it worked out. The pressure is probably accurate since the pressure in the post and shock pump equalize as you're adding air. Since 150-250 is the LEV range, I tend to use the same pressures for the Supernatural so you should be all set.
> 
> -Chris


Hi Everyone

I got a Dropzone, which i think it's called supernatural, or at least they look exactly the same.This thing is now spread over my garage's desk, after i tried several time to pump air in it without success....
Now i would like to ask some extra details as i really dont get what to do anymore.
I have pushed the pin with the white teflon in the inner tube and suddenly the big black rubber was shot to my ceiling, i cant remove the rod where this should be placed...what am i doing wrong?

How do you add oil? Need to press the lever while doing it? And the black rubber, how deep does it need to be placed?

I didnt want to get this luxury tool as i was afraid of maintenance...and now i am trying to fix it to sell it.

Thanks

G


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

cobellig said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> I got a Dropzone, which i think it's called supernatural, or at least they look exactly the same.


You are basically correct. The Supernatural is a layback version of the Dropzone (saddle clamp is set back a little for longer reach)



cobellig said:


> This thing is now spread over my garage's desk, after i tried several time to pump air in it without success....
> Now i would like to ask some extra details as i really dont get what to do anymore.
> I have pushed the pin with the white teflon in the inner tube and suddenly the big black rubber was shot to my ceiling, i cant remove the rod where this should be placed...what am i doing wrong?
> 
> How do you add oil? Need to press the lever while doing it? And the black rubber, how deep does it need to be placed?


OK. The internals of this are slightly reversed from the LEV so air and oil chambers are swapped.

Basically, you should have 3 separate tubes/rods:

1. The external one is the stanchion
2. Inside that is the tube that the IFP (internal floating piston - big black thing) glides on
3. Inside that is the damper rod/stanchion

1. Once you have disassembled, pull #3 out
2. Then, you can CAREFULLY grab #2 with needle nose pliers (cover with tube or something) and pull that out
3. Be sure all the oil is dumped and and everything is free of lint
4. Place the IFP on #2 with the rubber seal end closer to the saddle clamp end of the post
5. Insert #2 into #1 with the IFP on it and push firmly until you feel it "snap" into place
6. Use an allen key, rod, dowel, etc. to push the IFP all the way down into #1 toward the saddle clamp.
7. Now add 5wt oil into #2 only until full to the brim
8. Activate the lever near the saddle against your work bench while you carefully insert #3 into #2 - this will make some oil spill over. Insert it until the coated portion of the tube is lined up with the end of #2
9. Oil will spill over a bit into #1 - you can carefully dump this out.
10. Slide your cartridge end cap on and tighten it.
11. Then you have to get creative with a basketball inflator and some wire housing or I prefer to use the inner plastic lining of derailleur cable housing - snip a piece of this off to help make a tight seal into the appropriate hole (the one with the tiny pinhole inside it - see pictures in OP).
12. Inflate to 150-250 PSI

Going back to work but let me know if you still can't get it.

Good luck!
-Chris


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## Edwards151 (Jan 16, 2012)

I've got a brand new LevDX on my new bike and love the way it works, and the way the external cable is stationary (I'm coming from a Reverb). However I was amazed at the whole kevlar string thing when I opened it up. What the ??? Seems like a major weakness.

It all started when I wanted to re-route the external cable from how it was done from the shop I bought the bike from. I followed the instructions on the KS video, which required that i take the whole post apart. Somehow when putting it back together, I broke the string, right at the bottom barrel. I wanted to ride later that day, or the next day, so I spent several hours calling and visiting local bike shops, sporting good stores, and hardware stores. I could not come up with a suitable replacement locally, and didn't want to wait a week to have a stupid string shipped to me. Finally I found this stuff at a fly-fishing shop. It's 'streamer wire' - 30lb. And it's coated in some kind of slick nylon so it shouldn't fray or be abrasive. Anyway, it's in my post now and working perfectly. I'm going on a bigger ride this afternoon, so time will tell if it holds up, but I think it might just be a better alternative to the string that KS sped'd on this post.

I'll try to remember to report back in a couple months.


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## cobellig (Mar 20, 2015)

Hi Chris,I'll give it a try next week and if i make it work i hereby swear i'll make pictures for everyone 

Thanks


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. Thanks. I keep meaning to take my wife's old SN apart again for photos but haven't gotten around to it.

Good luck
-Chris


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

A big, huge, massively gnarly shout out to Chris. With trepidation, I took apart a brand new, unused Integra to have the stanchion anodized black. I followed his instructions in this thread to a "T" to reassemble, and my post works good as new. No issues. Zero. Zip. Nada. It was very straight forward. No guessing. The photos made it very easy for even a hack like myself.

Forever grateful.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. Thanks! I'm glad it worked out!

-Chris


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## JackStephen (Jun 29, 2010)

Hey guys, Im about to service my supernatural 272 (has about 1.5" of sag) but am uncertain because of the piggyback reservoir. What do I need to consider with this particular model? Last night started dissasembling it, but dont want to tear it completely apart until I have everything figured out (including the air recharging part). Thanks!!!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

That is uncharted territory for sure. The LEV 272 is FAR different internally and a bit of a biatch to service based on some other posts we've seen in this thread. With the piggy back on the Supernatural 272, you're really getting into a new area and my OP DIY is not likely going to be very helpful. If you do tear it down, let us know how it went. And definitely get some pictures. 

-Chris


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Hey all, seems you are very experienced with the workings of the KS Lev.. So a question I'm hoping someone may know an answer for..
I've got a 125mm KS Lev.. I am trying to reduce the max extended height by 10mm. eg. make it a 115mm dropper.

While playing with all the internals, can anyone recommend where a spacer could be placed that would reduce the travel/height slightly?

Thanks
Joel


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

A nylon spacer between the copper guide bushings and DU bushing would probably be the best place.

-Chris


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## JackStephen (Jun 29, 2010)

So... After giving up on refilling with air my supernatural 272 I decided to tear it apart. And this is what I found:



























I took all the precautions when opening the air chamber. But there was no hiss, nor a loud pop. After the cap went loose I removed the O-ring looking for the filling port. To my surprise the hole goes all the way through the cap and there is nothing sealing it. I also found too little oil inside this chamber. after comparing the internal rod with the pictures in this thread, this looks like a completely different animal.

What's next? What am I going to find inside the piggyback?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Now you've got my interest spiked. 

Questions:

1. Is there still another rod inside the main stanchion? If so, I wonder if it can be removed with guarded needle nose as with the standard Supernatural. I also wonder if there is an IFP on said rod. 
2. Is there a way to open the piggy back?
3. When you say you removed an Oring, was it covering the through and through hole on the inside of the cartridge cap? The standard Supernatural does which acts as a one way valve for adding air after reassembly. 

Keep the pics coming if you dig deeper. 

Good luck

-Chris


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Has anyone tried this? Is it hard to pull it apart to get to this area? Or complete strip down of post required?



cakelly4 said:


> A nylon spacer between the copper guide bushings and DU bushing would probably be the best place.
> 
> -Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Just thought about this some more and I don't think it would work. The one way roller bearing won't allow you to slide anything past it. Sorry. 

-Chris


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## JackStephen (Jun 29, 2010)

I cleaned the insides of the main stanchion and I'm sure there's nothing more inside of it. You can see the picture, the tube gets thicker (for structural purposes I think) but that's it. I also took a picture of the piggyback bottom. There is a small threaded cap at the center of a larger cap with insertions for snap ring pliers (which I don't own). I carefully removed the smaller cap (expecting some release of pressure) but nothing happened. I had some old needle nose pliers lying around, and turned them into snap ring pliers. See the pictures after removing the larger piggyback cap.

What I found: The piggyback IS the air reservoir. The small threaded hole at the piggyback cap is the air filling port. this cap has a groove with an o-ring covering a tiny hole (the one way valve, I tried to take a picture). While removing the piggyback cap I could hear the air releasing, and there was oil in the cavity (which I think migrated from the oil chamber).

Looking inside the piggyback, there is an sliding bottom (I don't know how to explain it) that goes toward the open end of the reservoir when you compress the rod and open the valve. It looks like this sliding bottom separates the oil and air chambers. Do you think it's safe to remove it for further inspection?
































__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Ok, just caught up with the 272 supernatural questions. After reading the first question, I was thinking this was how it worked. It is set up like a piggy back shock with a valve in between. I'm assuming there was an IFP in that piggy back? I think that is what I'm seeing in your pictures after you take off the black cap from the piggy back. When putting it back together, the easiest thing here for ifp depth will be to push it all the way in. Then you know for a fact that it will have plenty of room to drop in the piggy back when you drop the post.

First and foremost (and I think I'm in the minority here, but oh well),I would change those o-rings and quads. If air and oil mixed, it got by your o-rings and quad rings. They are ultra cheap. Might as well put brand new ones in so you don't have to open it up again soon. 100 to 1, the piston shaft quadd is a size 109. 

The bleed here is probably going to get messy. Here's the way I'm thinking this can work. Set up your post upside down and make sure the valve is depressed so it is completely open. Secondly, start pouring oil into the main shaft (make sure there is nothing in the piggy back and it is completely open). The oil that goes into the main shaft will go into the piggy back and push out air in between the two chambers (because the valve is open). Once the piggy back fills to the top with oil, stop pouring in oil. It won't go any higher in the main shaft (bornoulli's principle, iirc). Since you've now pushed out all the air in the piggy back, re-install the ifp. Push it all the way in. This will raise the oil level in the main shaft. Once the ifp is pushed all the way down, reinstall the piggy back cap. Now put the piston shaft back in. Now screw on the internal seal head around the piston shaft.

I'm guessing the piggy back cap has a rubber cap in it. You need a needle system to puncture that rubber cap (the rubber is self sealing) and pump it up to at least 150psi. I'm thinking this should work.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Also, the little hole you see in the internal seal head is a vacuum breaker. That is why it isn't sealed on the other side. When you drop your post, the piston shaft would go up into the post and leave an evacuated space behind it. If that hole wasn't there, you would create a vacuum which would fight against the post and try to raise it back up.

Speaking of piggy back shocks, this thread inspired me to create a similar one for rebuilding a Cane Creek double barrel shock (air can and damper). If you are wondering what I meant by puncturing the rubber seal to fill it back up with air, here is my thread for rebuilding that shock:
http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/cane-creek-double-barrel-air-air-can-service-942272.html

Also, this is the needle system I use for pumping air into an IFP chamber that is sealed with a rubber cap: Fox Polaris RZR Arctic Cat Nitrogen Fill Adapter Motion Pro Style Needle O8 0075 | eBay


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I'm still thinking about this thing, but my first thought is that Laterilus is pretty close to describing the bleed procedure for the SN 272, but I'm not convinced that anything needs to be punctured. If the Piggy Back houses the air (which it appears to do), and there is a hole covered by an o-ring (as described by JackStephen), then you should be able to fill the chamber just like the standard Supernatural and Dropzone using a ball inflator and something to seal around it. Still thinking...

-Chris

**EDIT - this is all assuming that there is a connecting hole through one of those "snap ring plier" holes. If not and/or there's a rubber membrane like described by Laterilus, then maybe puncture is necessary.


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## JackStephen (Jun 29, 2010)

Hey guys, 

Regarding the air refill, there is no need to puncture anything. In the second picture you can see the filling port right at the center of the piggyback cap. It is protected by the small screw you see at picture #3. BTW, the O-ring in the same picture is the one that seals the tiny hole of the one way valve. The only thing I need is some sort of adapter to screw the pump to the filling port. 

I agree with Laterilus bleeding procedure. But what if the oil level inside the stanchion isn't high enough once I press the IFP all the way in? The main shaft will catch the air between the oil surface and the stanchion open end. It's just a guessing, right now I'm out of oil and need to order some online. Will finishline 2.5wt suspension oil work?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Will probably take some trial and error but I think you're headed in the right direction. The 2.5 will work and will likely make your post faster. If you're inpatient like me, you could look for fork oil at a local motorcycle/scooter shop. That's where I always get mine. I use the 5 wt. which is still faster than the standard.

Good luck
-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Sorry, looks like I missed a step there. Once you push the ifp back into the piggy back, thus displacing that oil into the stanchion, you simply fill the stanchion to the top with more oil. Pushing the ifp into the piggy back while it has oil accomplishes 2 things; first, it sets the ifp to the proper position. Secondly, it will displace any trapped air in the crevices between the two chambers through the valve. 

I doubt there will be enough oil in the piggy back to fill the main stanchion. Topping off the stanchion with oil. Will raise those dislodged air bubbles from pushing in the ifp to the top of the stanchion. Wipe them away with your fingers.

Lastly, finish off the rebuild like we do for the LEV, dropzone, super natural, reverb, etc. first install the internal seal head on the piston shaft. Next, push the piston shaft into the stanchion just enough to engage the quad ring. Carefully thread the internal seal head onto the stanchion. That will push the piston rod into the correct position the rest of the way and also push back on the ifp, but I doubt that ifp moves much. 

Yes, finishline will work. There was a time finishline was cheaper than Rockshox oil, so I used that in my reverb instead of rockshox. It is compatible with Buna N o-rings which is what is used in KS posts.


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## Skelldify (May 10, 2013)

I accidentally scratched the shaft when removing the actuator assembly. What effect will this have on the seatpost's function?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Oh man. That's a bummer. Is it the small inner shaft, or the main stanchion? Big scratch? Little scratch? If it's the main stanchion it's not likely a big deal. If it's the smaller inner one, the scratch could cause some trauma to the seal it passes by and allow oil to escape. Wet sanding it with a very fine sandpaper will smooth it out to eliminate sharp edges. My wife fixed her fork stanchion using 2000 grit sandpaper and it has worked very well. You'll also hear of people using nail polish after sanding to fill the void but I have doubts about the nail polish sticking around for long. 

-Chris


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## Skelldify (May 10, 2013)

It was the smaller inner shaft, got some plier "bites" on it. I gripped it through an inner tube, but had to grip it so hard the teeth bit right through it. I'll try the sandpaper and maybe some nail polish. Thanks a ton for the help!


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## Skelldify (May 10, 2013)

Another question. I got my KS Lev used. It came without the coupler housing cap:
KS Coupler Housing Cap/O-Ring > Components > Handlebars, Headsets and Saddles > Seatpost Small Parts | Jenson USA

Do I need this for the post to function properly?


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

cakelly4 said:


> ... You'll also hear of people using nail polish after sanding to fill the void but I have doubts about the nail polish sticking around for long...


I used UV hardened Loctite 4305 to repair scratched stanchions on my Fox fork (4306 would be even better because of lower viscosity, but I couldn't get one). The scratches were deepen and shaped by fine needle file for better filling, filled with the Loctite, UV hardened and wet sanded with 1000 - 1500 grit. After repair the fork worked for years... I checked many professional Loctite adhesives and choosed 430x because of the highest hardness of all (much better than the best epoxide resins).


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Skelldify said:


> It was the smaller inner shaft, got some plier "bites" on it. I gripped it through an inner tube, but had to grip it so hard the teeth bit right through it. I'll try the sandpaper and maybe some nail polish. Thanks a ton for the help!


Ooooh. Ouch. A pair of soft jaws will work much better next time to prevent further damage. If you look through this thread there is a link somewhere to buy a new Cartridge if necessary.



Skelldify said:


> Another question. I got my KS Lev used. It came without the coupler housing cap:
> KS Coupler Housing Cap/O-Ring > Components > Handlebars, Headsets and Saddles > Seatpost Small Parts | Jenson USA
> 
> Do I need this for the post to function properly?


I would grab one. It will keep dirt and water out. Definitely a good idea. You can cover it with electrical tape in the meantime.



PeterG said:


> I used UV hardened Loctite 4305 to repair scratched stanchions on my Fox fork (4306 would be even better because of lower viscosity, but I couldn't get one). The scratches were deepen and shaped by fine needle file for better filling, filled with the Loctite, UV hardened and wet sanded with 1000 - 1500 grit. After repair the fork worked for years... I checked many professional Loctite adhesives and choosed 430x because of the highest hardness of all (much better than the best epoxide resins).


That is a pretty cool idea. I'll definitely try that if I get a stanchion scratch in the future.

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

FYI. I just updated the OP LEV exploded view seal specs. I had one wrong on there. It was previously labeled as a 1.8 x 16 mm o-ring but should have been a 1.8 x 15 mm o-ring. It's now updated and the link to purchase the o-ring is also updated. All the specs are confirmed now (just replaced my seals). Sorry if anyone replaced seals and had the wrong one there. 

-Chris


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

cakelly4 said:


> FYI. I just updated the OP LEV exploded view seal specs. I had one wrong on there. It was previously labeled as a 1.8 x 16 mm o-ring but should have been a 1.8 x 15 mm o-ring. It's now updated and the link to purchase the o-ring is also updated. All the specs are confirmed now (just replaced my seals). Sorry if anyone replaced seals and had the wrong one there.
> 
> -Chris


It happens, Chris. Ever look at the tolerance specifications of those o-rings? Its baffling how wide of a range they have. The range is so big that it will bleed into other sizes and be within spec range of those other sizes! This is why I typically get multiples in various sizes around the size of each o-ring. This is also why I think some people get duds right off the bat when they open the box to a brand new dropper. The manufacturer buys specific sizes in bulk, and some of those o-rings are just barely in spec, but not good enough to make a strong seal.

One of these days I'll get that nice o-ring sizer that they sell. The cone thing that you slip the o-ring on to get the size.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

PeterG said:


> I used UV hardened Loctite 4305 to repair scratched stanchions on my Fox fork (4306 would be even better because of lower viscosity, but I couldn't get one). The scratches were deepen and shaped by fine needle file for better filling, filled with the Loctite, UV hardened and wet sanded with 1000 - 1500 grit. After repair the fork worked for years... I checked many professional Loctite adhesives and choosed 430x because of the highest hardness of all (much better than the best epoxide resins).


Peter, how long do you sand with this fine of grit? Are you just doing it by hand? Are you just looking to get the sharp edges of the grooves sanded down? If done this on my rear shock. Ive sanded down the sharp edges so it won't cut the o-rings, but ive never filled them with loctite. Ive tried nail polish, but that didn't work. You have me curious now to try your method.


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

First I deepen and shaped (enlarged, if the scratches were too thin) the grooves/scratches by rectangular or triangular fine needle file, that also removed groove edges. Then I filled the grooves with Loctite and hardened it with UV (our old sunray lamp had the right UV wavelength). Then I wet sanded the excessive hardened Loctite carefuly with 800 - 1000 grit sand-paper bonded to ca. 2 x 4 cm piece of 1mm aluminium sheet curved according to the stanchion radius. I did so carefuly in one direction only (axial) and when the excessive Loctite was removed (ca. at the level of original anodising), then switched to 1500 grit and tried to leveled the filled grooves to surrounding anodising as much as possible. You should be careful do not take off too much of anodising because it's very thin layer. The transition between anodising and filled part should be so smooth that you can't feel the difference by finger pad, only by nail (if it's sensitive).
Sorry if some used terms are not exact, but english is my second language.

Edit: I remember I have some pictures of the scratched fork on hand, so included them too. The scratches are already filled, but it's hardly noticeable because the Loctite is transparent.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Superglue works well for gouges like those.

Sand smooth, fill. Once the stuff is dry, sand it smooth and you're good to go. Have done that with bad fork stanchion gouges a few times, with good results. 

Have heard of others using JB Weld with good results, but no experience with that myself.


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

I do not doubt that many adhesives can be used, but above mentioned Loctites are the most likely the hardest of them (shore hardness 82/durometer D, Loctite 4306 datasheet) and perfectly adhere to the metal (they are used also for bonding of stainless steel cannulas to plastic collar on medical disposal needles).


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## gauthier (Aug 2, 2011)

I finally fix it, I diassembled the damper and there I suspect the spring wasn't in its right position.
I reassembled it and now the push rod come back quickly again and the seatpost is fixed.

Thanks again Chris for your howto and your useful help


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

NICE!! I'm glad it's fixed. 

-Chris


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

I went through this service once and my post worked perfectly for a while but then went soft again. I didn't replace any parts in the process, and probably should have replaced seals. Since it was winter and still under warranty I sent it in to KS and got it back with a new cartridge under warranty - hopefully there are some upgraded seals in there. Took about 2-3 weeks and I'm happy. 

I wouldn't hesitate to do it myself again but the warranty process seemed like a cheap and easy way to get some brand new parts at a time when I didn't need the post anyway.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Does anyone have a fix for the groaning noise from the seat rail clamp? I put carbon paste on it last year and that helped but it never fails to come back. I cant believe my LEV makes all kinds of noise and my eTen is nice and quiet!


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Scottg, I will agree that free parts is always good. Especially when you are talking about the longer wearing, more expensive parts (bushings, rods, etc). However, when it comes to the seals, don't expect an upgrade. Other materials of construction cost more and that added cost makes the dropper post increase in price when new. Manufacturers are always going to use Buna n in these items. It is cheap, it is plentiful, it works and it is reasonably reliable. The only time I can see a manufacturer changing a seal would be the actual size or going from an o-ring to quad. Sometimes they get the sizing wrong and realize that the next size up or down would work better. I've see that before.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Laterilus said:


> Scottg, I will agree that free parts is always good. Especially when you are talking about the longer wearing, more expensive parts (bushings, rods, etc). However, when it comes to the seals, don't expect an upgrade. Other materials of construction cost more and that added cost makes the dropper post increase in price when new. Manufacturers are always going to use Buna n in these items. It is cheap, it is plentiful, it works and it is reasonably reliable. The only time I can see a manufacturer changing a seal would be the actual size or going from an o-ring to quad. Sometimes they get the sizing wrong and realize that the next size up or down would work better. I've see that before.


Thanks.....I figured there was no real downside to sending it in because I've been on the fatbike and the post would just sit around anyway. May as well get a new cartridge before the warranty expires. If it goes on me again I'll be fixing it myself again and then I'll be checking here for the latest beta on seals. For what they cost I should probably just get some to have in the kit.....as I live in a small town where specialized items are hard to find.


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## JackStephen (Jun 29, 2010)

A little and picture-less update: Oil arrived yesterday. Filled my supernatural according to Laterilus directions and everything went OK. The only issue (and not really important to me) is that seatpost won't go all the way down. Don't know if I overfilled with oil or maybe put too much air pressure, but I pushed with all my weight and it won´t go all the way down: there is aprox. 1" of exposed stanchion in the lowest position. Otherwise the seatpost works perfectly, with no vertical play at all.

One more thing: I find my remote lever too damn hard to push. What can I do to make it more thumb-friendly?


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Yep. Too much oil. I've done it before as well. Easy enough to fix, but you have to re-open it. You want to make sure the IFP is all the way down in the stanchion prior to pushing the piston shaft into the ifp tube. The ifp will rise a little in the stanchion when you push the piston shaft in and subsequently screw the internal seal head onto the stanchion. If there is too much oil, the IFP rises in the stanchion too much and there isn't enough room for it to allow for full drop. 

As for the remote, I would either pick up the KS lefty or the new specialized remote. Both offer a lot more leverage. I got the specialized one. It works well, but I think it is way over priced. Had the lefty from KS been out at the time I got the specialized one, I would have tried the lefty.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

+1 for the Southpaw ("lefty")

-Chris


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## bill34di (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi, 

Thanks Chris for the guide. I tried this and got rid of the sagging of my KS LEV. But now when I want to set it at bottomout position it comes back up an inch. No problem with the setting of 1 inch or higher position. Do you know if I did something wrong? Thanks!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

bill34di said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks Chris for the guide. I tried this and got rid of the sagging of my KS LEV. But now when I want to set it at bottomout position it comes back up an inch. No problem with the setting of 1 inch or higher position. Do you know if I did something wrong? Thanks!


It sounds like you forgot to purge the air between the cartridge and the black casing as they demonstrated near the end of the KS video.

Try this:

1. With your post all the way up, remove it from your bike frame and reattached the remote cable at the junction box like when you have it installed on the bike.
2. Unthread the bottom cap very slightly - 1-2 threads (approx. 1-2 mm)
3. Activate the remote lever and hold it down.
4. Using a nearby bench or your thigh against the bottom of the post, press the seat down all the way while holding the remote lever.
5. Release the remote lever while still holding the seat down. It should stay down at this point. If it does, proceed to step 6.
6. Tighten the bottom cap
7. You should then be good to go. If it doesn't work or it still doesn't stay down at step 5, let me know and I'll help you trouble shoot.

-Chris


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## bill34di (Jun 4, 2006)

It works now! Thanks a bunch!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome!!

Chris


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## rocketman26 (Apr 14, 2015)

Firstly thank you for all the information posted in this thread. It gave me the confidence to strip down my post when it lost air and started sagging. Unfortunately my post is still losing air, naturally I though new seals needed but I put my post in a glass of water to check that the bottom cap was tight enough and not leaking and I found the source of the leak. Through the side of the stanchion!!!

Has anyone had this problem before?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

That's a new one. Seems like a good one to send for warranty if it's still covered. If not, I just discovered that you can now purchase new cartridges at Universal Cycles:

Universal Cycles -- Kind Shock Dropper Post Hydraulic Cartridges

Good luck and thanks for sharing.

-Chris


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## beerdrinker (May 21, 2014)

Can anyone tell me if it's possible to buy just the inner shaft that screws into the damper assembly? I'm hoping this is something I can get from QBP rather than buy the entire cartridge. I've scratched mine really bad near the end with the accuator and I have a feeling this is why it keeps leaking oil and letting air into the system.


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## jojotherider (May 20, 2009)

Edwards151 said:


> I've got a brand new LevDX on my new bike and love the way it works, and the way the external cable is stationary (I'm coming from a Reverb). However I was amazed at the whole kevlar string thing when I opened it up. What the ??? Seems like a major weakness.
> 
> It all started when I wanted to re-route the external cable from how it was done from the shop I bought the bike from. I followed the instructions on the KS video, which required that i take the whole post apart. Somehow when putting it back together, I broke the string, right at the bottom barrel. I wanted to ride later that day, or the next day, so I spent several hours calling and visiting local bike shops, sporting good stores, and hardware stores. I could not come up with a suitable replacement locally, and didn't want to wait a week to have a stupid string shipped to me. Finally I found this stuff at a fly-fishing shop. It's 'streamer wire' - 30lb. And it's coated in some kind of slick nylon so it shouldn't fray or be abrasive. Anyway, it's in my post now and working perfectly. I'm going on a bigger ride this afternoon, so time will tell if it holds up, but I think it might just be a better alternative to the string that KS sped'd on this post.
> 
> ...


How is this holding up so far? I'm pretty sure mine is all stretched out now and looking to replace. Post works fine if I push the actuator by hand, but not if I push the lever. The actuator doesn't move enough. So I need to replace that string and would like something a little tougher.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Those of us that fish for the big fish use Spectra braid. Super thin, uber strong. If you don't fish and use it, hit someone you know that does. I haven't had to do anything to my DX since I bought it 6+ months ago but I'm guessing that's all they're using. Spectra is braided Kevlar fiber. I have 100# test strength that is the diameter of heavy thread.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You can also use the Kevlar braided thread linked in the OP which is the same diameter as the stock link cable. I think the key to any of these is getting the technique down to get the length just right. The kite string has lasted for a very long time in mine as I'm sure the fishing line will. Either way, you can't go wrong and it's nice to have it in bulk so you can master your technique for getting the length right. Don't forget new isolator pellets (also linked in the OP). Without them, your line is more likely to snap.

Free Shipping 100ft 250lb Braided Kevlar Line for Fishing Camping Kite Flying | eBay

Good luck
-Chris


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## wobbem (Jul 19, 2009)

Hi, This is an excellent thread but I couldn't find an answer to the problem I am having with my Lev, perhaps you could help?
Since new (no warranty as bought on fleabay) the post when depressed goes down freely most times but others it slows down and locks going down. I then get off the bike and can press the stem down by hand (it will go down slowly and raise slowly) but with me sitting my body weight won't do it. After a few pushes up and down by hand all seems good again, and it moves freely.
I have pulled it apart to change the Kevlar string and I found the actuating rod to be very stiff, but once worked hard (ie pressed against the wall) the plunger moves freely again. Not sure if these two instances are related to the sticking seat post.
Ideas greatly appreciated.


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## jojotherider (May 20, 2009)

cakelly4 said:


> You can also use the Kevlar braided thread linked in the OP which is the same diameter as the stock link cable. I think the key to any of these is getting the technique down to get the length just right. The kite string has lasted for a very long time in mine as I'm sure the fishing line will. Either way, you can't go wrong and it's nice to have it in bulk so you can master your technique for getting the length right. Don't forget new isolator pellets (also linked in the OP). Without them, your line is more likely to snap.
> 
> Free Shipping 100ft 250lb Braided Kevlar Line for Fishing Camping Kite Flying | eBay
> 
> ...


Thanks, I haven't looked at the OP in awhile. Now I understand why I couldn't undo the barrel clamp before. Needed to melt the pellet first. Thanks again, I will take a look at getting everything ordered tonight.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Thanks for the link Chris.
Do you know where does this belong?







I have disassembled the post, but cant figure out where it came from


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

That's the bottom out bumper for the smaller, inner rod. You can see it being removed in step 6. It resides on the rod between the actuator assembly and the cartridge end cap. Just remove the actuator assembly, slide it on and reinstall. Done. 

-Chris


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## Skelldify (May 10, 2013)

I went to Hobby Lobby looking for isolator pellets (bean bag filler). It turns out there was about 100 of them scattered all over the floor, apparently they fell out of the bag. They worked great!


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## collectivedust (Oct 25, 2010)

Firstly, massive thanks to Chris for this post. Deserves a six pack at least for this info.

My LEV started getting the dreaded sag after about 2 years of trouble free service.
I'm certain that the cause of my problems was lifting the bike by the seat with the post in the lower position. This effectively allowed air in to the oil chamber and turned it into suspension post. (Similar to if you've ever tried to extract bubbles from Avid brake fluid by clamping the tube at the end of the syringe and pulling back on the plunger too hard and air leaks past the plunger and goes into the fluid).

I'd already serviced my LEV previously so the break down steps up to the cartridge was very quick. I was a bit worried about opening the cartridge, especially with the disclaimer however it all went well. Just make sure you've fully depressurised the cartridge via the shraeder valve and have the post in the fully extended position. The residual pressure is relatively low and is the leaked air in the oil chamber. I used 2 quick clamps and secured my circlip pliers to the edge of the bench. Inverted the cartridge onto the mounted pliers and slowly unscrewed the end by turning the outer tube, I had safety googles and earplugs in just in case. I also wrapped the end with a rag to catch any oil...not much at all. There was a very little pop (think wine bottle cork) and the pressure was released safely without any loss of eyes or limbs.

I followed Chris' instructions to the tee and it all went to plan except for my rookie error when I had put the inner rod back into the oil filled tube. I pushed it in too far too quickly (5wt suspension oil shower/splash) and I had to take it out and top up the oil again. Just push it in gently.

Put it all back together and repressurised to 200psi and it is rock solid like new. All up it was about 1.5 hours work, take your time, read the post a few times before you get into the guts of it and you'll be sag free in not time.

Oh one thing that is a pain is getting the silver DU bushing holder out. I didn't use the channel locks but tried a strap wrench to no avail. I ended up removing it by pulling the stanchion up a few times forcefully. It definitely deforms the edge of the DU bushing however not enough to ruin it and scratch the stanchion. (I wonder if a tool like a crown race remover could be used to gently pry the bushing carrier from the black seatpost body?) I'd also try and minimise the times you move the bushing over the key way grooves as it tends to cut/scratch the inner DU surface. When you put the post back together try and align the deform marks in the DU bushing with the key ways as this should minimise deforming other areas of the bushing. I also used the quick clamps and some slickoleum to gently squeeze the bushing and carrier back into the outer case.

Overall an excellent tutorial and should keep your expensive LEV running for many years.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

wobbem said:


> Hi, This is an excellent thread but I couldn't find an answer to the problem I am having with my Lev, perhaps you could help?
> Since new (no warranty as bought on fleabay) the post when depressed goes down freely most times but others it slows down and locks going down. I then get off the bike and can press the stem down by hand (it will go down slowly and raise slowly) but with me sitting my body weight won't do it. After a few pushes up and down by hand all seems good again, and it moves freely.
> I have pulled it apart to change the Kevlar string and I found the actuating rod to be very stiff, but once worked hard (ie pressed against the wall) the plunger moves freely again. Not sure if these two instances are related to the sticking seat post.
> Ideas greatly appreciated.


OK. A couple of things to try:

1. Make sure that you purged the air between the cartridge and the body of the post after you dismantled it. You do this any time you remove the bottom cap. When you replace the bottom cap after any service, you need to thread it on almost all of the way except for 1-2 mm, then activate the post so that it's all the way in the down position, then tighten the cap the remainder of the way. This is the simplest thing to test.

2. If 1 doesn't work, check that your DU bushing slides freely along the stanchion by dismantling the post and sliding it all the way up and down to be sure it's not dragging excessively.

3. If 1 and 2 are fine, check your cartridge activation without the post. With the cartridge removed from your post, place the activation rod and piston in the end of the inner shaft so that you can activate the post against your work bench. Does it activate smoothly?

4. If everything looks good on 1-3, I'd be suspicious that your internal cable is just a bit off. The best technique for getting the length right is as follows:

i) Attach a new barrel to a new piece of link cable (with the isolator pellet) and insert the free end in the hole through the junction box so that it can run down the inside of the post. Pull it snug so the barrel rests in the top of the junction box.

ii) Run the other end down the post inside the designated groove then fold the excess over and tape it to the outside of the post and reassemble the post and actuator assembly.

iii) Place another barrel with isolator pellet on the other end of the cable, but don't tighten it down all the way yet (you want to be able to slide it up and down).

iv) Push the actuator up against the black casing and make sure the pulley is centered well with the folded over cable

v) Place the loose barrel into the actuator lever and hold the excess cable while you use your other hand to slide the barrel up until the lever is bumped up nice and snug against the piston, then tighten the barrel.

It's also good to place a little slick honey on the piston, pulley wheel, and lever hinge as well as the barrel in the junction box (lets it rotate freely in the junction claw).

Try these things and get back to me. Good luck!

-Chris


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## wobbem (Jul 19, 2009)

Wow, many thanks Chris. The Purge seemed to have done the job. Surprised at how important a role that end cap plays. I also checked cable length and there was a tiny amount of play, so I reset it snug. Post is going down much smoother and quicker.
With regards to air pressure, will a higher psi only affect the return rate speed and not effect how fast the post goes down? 
Will give the bike a blast this coming weekend and hopefully all stays good. Once again thanks for your swift response.
Rob.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Excellent! I'm glad it's working. The pressure only changes the return rate. I tend to set mine at 200psi but you can set it anywhere from 150-250 psi. Let me know if any other issues arise. 

-Chris


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Hi Chris, still being a champion I see. My post has been great since I cleaned her out using your instructions. 

Two very small developing issues though - the post won't stay all the way down (sort of creeps up by itself 5-10mm after downward pressure and the lever is released) and I'm starting to get very minor sag.

Do you think the creep issue is to do excess air/pressure caught behind the bottom cap? The sag I know will require a cartridge rebuild eventually. 

EDIT found my answer a few pages back, does sound like I need to purge the air out of the base


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yup. I'd give that a try. Also, if you're experiencing a small amount of sag, check that the cartridge end cap hasn't started to back out a little. I've noticed that will gradually occur on mine. If it backs out far enough, you'll get a slight sag without the springy feel. If it backs out much beyond that, you will lose oil and have a major failure on the trail. 

If it's a springy sag (air/oil mix), then the full service is probably needed. If you didn't replace seals when you serviced it before, you'll want to do it this time for sure. I can't remember if I had that info in the thread when you serviced it previously.

Good luck
-Chris


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks mate. This didn't quite go to plan. 

What happens with my post is the actuator head pops out of its seating in the outer housing if the bottom cap is not tightened firmly. As a result, if I use the proper method for purging the air out (bottom cap unthreaded a few mm) upon dropping the post down it unseats itself, putting more tension on the internal cord, resulting in the post not staying down. To avoid this, last time I rebuilt the post I had to have the cap on quite firmly (probably only 0.5mm thread showing) during the purge stage, and given my problems now this obviously didn't remove the air properly. Any tips Chris?

As a result of my frustrations dealing with the above I managed to snap the internal cord. Happy days! 

The end cap on my post was still on very firmly when I pulled it from the frame, so appears as if my sag is due to air in the cart. Thinking I might go ahead and do the full cartridge rebuild whilst it is in pieces and I'm waiting for parts.


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Regarding the isolator pellets - are these just little balls of plastic that I need to squash in front of the barrel grub screw? Are they there to prevent the screw digging into and fraying the cord? Sorry, this has probably been covered but I'm having trouble finding this info


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

So, just a tip for any fellow LEV rebuilders. You might want to pick up an extra one of these.









I mentioned earlier I was struggling to get mine back in place. As Chris confirmed in my earlier post, the part can bend a little when you clamp the seat bolts down. If you need a rubber mallet to pop it off, there's not going to be an easy way to get it back on. I tried forcing it a few times but the risk was not worth it. So, in summary, I was stuck for 5 days that I didn't have to be. might as well grab a few from Universal Cycles and keep them at the ready.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I feel your frustrations as I've done this a few times in my initial servicing. You're right - the bottom cap has a ridge in it that holds your entire weight. So if you unthread a little too far during the purge, the internal cable will activate the post (or snap it). I usually have good results if I back it out 0.5-1 mm.

The isolator pellets are there to add grip to prevent the cable from slipping and to prevent the grub screw from shredding it. In my original post, there are some links to kite string and craft pellets (you just need to trim them down a little). There are also links to the original parts and many people have found the craft pellets and Kevlar string at hobby stores and fishing stores. 

The easiest way to test your cartridge is to remove it and press the inner rod against your work bench. If it sags when removed from the black shell, your cartridge needs service. If not, there is likely something going on somewhere between the cartridge and your remote. 

I hope this helps. Let me know if you're still having trouble.

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

RTM said:


> So, just a tip for any fellow LEV rebuilders. You might want to pick up an extra one of these.
> 
> View attachment 987009
> 
> ...


Yep. Major PITA. There is a way to get the bent one back on if you're in a jam though - just use the seat clamp plates and bolts and gradually screw them together without the saddle. Be sure to keep alternating screws to tighten things evenly. This gradually presses the collar back in place. Still a major pain.

-Chris


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

cakelly4 said:


> I feel your frustrations as I've done this a few times in my initial servicing. You're right - the bottom cap has a ridge in it that holds your entire weight. So if you unthread a little too far during the purge, the internal cable will activate the post (or snap it). I usually have good results if I back it out 0.5-1 mm.
> 
> The isolator pellets are there to add grip to prevent the cable from slipping and to prevent the grub screw from shredding it. In my original post, there are some links to kite string and craft pellets (you just need to trim them down a little). There are also links to the original parts and many people have found the craft pellets and Kevlar string at hobby stores and fishing stores.
> 
> ...


Cheers Chris.

Will let you know how it goes.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Good luck and let me know how it goes. You initially asked a question about replacing the inner IFP and the answer is yes, I would replace it as well. The IFP seals are probably the most important to swap since they see the most wear. I no longer struggle with getting the IFP back on since using the technique with a small tool to help the first lip of the seal over the edge of the tube. You could probably even use a wooden tooth pick for this. Just put a little pressure on the IFP and work the edge of the seal a little at a time with the pick. 

Let me know if you get stuck along the way. 

-Chris


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Bit of an update, I ended up scoring a new cartridge under warranty after I paid the "international warranty fee". Figured I may as well grab that while I can, especially considering my stanchion had a little damage as well. Cheers for the tips again Chris, shall be very useful for next time!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice! And you're welcome. 

-Chris


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## crocus (Apr 13, 2010)

Hi,

I have brand new Lev Integra and after only two months of use it started leaking oil and of course it sagged. I know it is under warranty but I have bought it online and I didn't want to go through all the hustle by shipping it to the other part of the world. This DIY looked simple enough to give it a try so I ordered all the mentioned o-rings and quad-rings. During a service I've noticed that there is a inner quad inside a bottom cap that isn't mentioned in this picture. 








Has anyone managed to identify it? I also noticed that it isn't same color (material?) as the rest of the seals.

For now my Lev works fine but I'll have to wait for a few days to see is it really fixed or is it still leaking oil.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I have not gotten the nerve to pull that one out and measure it yet. So far, I haven't run into any issues with that one as typically it's the IFP quad seals that go bad (or the end cap backs out slightly and leaks oil). Laterilus may have measured that one in his drop zone but I don't remember. It may be somewhere in this thread. 

I hope your post continues to work for you. 

-Chris


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## crocus (Apr 13, 2010)

Unfortunately after two weeks my post is starting to show signs that isn't fixed  I can feel few mm of sag. My last chance is to replace that inner quad-ring in bottom cap. If it fails again than I am giving up on DIY service. 
Regarding that quad ring, my plan is to take it out and fortunately I have these guys in my neighborhood. I hope that they can measure it and provide replacement. If I manage to find out some interesting info on that ring I will post it here.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

My 100mm LEV started to develop some 1" sag and I decided to do the rebuild, which seems to work like a charm!

I had some trouble opening up the internals, there was really loud bang when unscrewing the bottom cap and oil inside was all foam. The two innermost tubes popped out a while after removing the bottom cap, leaving the IFP inside the big tube, I guess there was air trapped in wrong place... The Valve assembly was also really tightly stuck, so I had to use rubber hammer to get it out... Anyway, got the valve and IFP out eventually, and the IFP was surprisingly easy to get back, I was afraid it would have been worse, or I got lucky 

Anyway, I have a question too, how sensitive the post is to the oil used inside?

5wt suspension oil was recommended, but I only had 10wt Redline available, so decided to try with that. Initial impression is that there is no noticeable difference compared to new one. But I'm curious if there is some difference if thicker oil is more or less prone to foaming or developing other problems with this kind of seatpost..?


- S


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Glad it worked out for you. I'm sure the 10 wt. is fine. I've never really known what the weight of the original fluid is and just used 5 because it was what I had. I can tell you that the thinner fluid seems to make the post activate faster but I'm not sure if it effects longevity of the rebuild. I will say that if you didn't replace the seals, you'll want to do so on your next rebuild. The IFP seals are especially important to swap as they seem to be the key players in separating the air and oil chambers. Friction wears them over time and air and oil begins to mix, hence the failure. A bleed will fix it for a short time but seal replacement is key. 

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions/issues. 

-Chris


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Alright, I just needed to get it fixed quickly before a race next weekend, so not really time to investigate more about what replacement seals to get etc. Anyway the rebuild is fairly quick & easy to do, so replacing the seals shouldn't be any problem, if I can just find correct seals(Finland isn't exactly easiest place to get those..) somewhere.

Anyway, huge thanks for the informative & helpful rebuild instruction!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. If you can't find the seals anywhere just PM me and I can look into sending you a set of two. I'm thinking it can't be all that expensive to do. 

Good luck in the race!

-Chris


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

so this is only sort of diy-repair related. Post (KS LEV, non-integra) is stuck in carbon frame. What are the safe ways to pull up on the post? I've tried tapping around using the cable junction box ( seems to be one piece with outer post ). I didn't want to tug/turn on the saddle too much. 

thanks in advance for any advice


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yikes. So I think that a little gentle rotating and pulling on the saddle with it in full extension would be OK. Let us know how it turns out. 

-Chris


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

yeah...I can tell its going to take more than gentle pulling and rotating  What am I going to be destroying with the rotate motion? The little brass "keys" and/or roller bearing? Trying to limit it to upward force with slight rotation for now....letting some ammonia seep in ( hopefully to break down corrosion? ). fingers crossed. thanks again


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

If u have enough of the outer post exposed above the seat tube, try loosening it with a strap wrench. If not, apply a little 3 in 1 or WD40 between the seat tube and the post. Let it sit overnight then hit again with the strap wrench.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

1 - has anyone considered the use of viton rings instead of buna/rubber? it might serve its purpose longer as the quality of viton is far superior than buna/rubber.

2 - also, since i'm hunting for a dropper, given this great thread, would you say that going for a ks lev rather than a rs reverb is better in terms of serviceability and overall build quality?

i was watching the rs reverb rebuild vids in the sram youtube channel and i find it more complex and requiring some special tools compared to ks. given the instructions and experiences here, it seems that ks is simpler.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Oh, so this is where the dropper post threads went to. 

In my experience with servicing, I now prefer Kind Shock. I still prefer the smooth function of the Reverb hydraulic button, but the KS is more reliable. It's funny, they have the same design, but the KS simply stays together and as such, lasts longer. My main issue with the reverb is the internal seal head. 95% of the reverbs I have rebuilt (about 50 times now) the internal seal head unscrewed itself. No matter how are I torque it down, it is inevitable. The KS internal seal head doesn't budge and KS uses a lot more quad rings which tend to last longer in dynamic uses. The grooves on the reverb parts Aren't machined in a way where you could replace the o-rings with quads. 

The downside of the KS is the cable actuated button. To some, this means nothing. I've grown accustomed to it. Still, it doesn't feel like the reverb. I change my cable 3 times a year. It seems to get grimey on me quickly. Still though, it isn't nearly enough of a setback. I prefer KS. 

If you don't want the cable to move up and down, the LEV is the way to go. If you don't mind it going up and down, the supernatural is very inexpensive. If you need a setback post like I do, the Dropzone is your only choice.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

After my rebuild, I've had couple times the situation that the actuator unit gets stuck. The lever feel gets stiff and pushing harder would probably only snap the cable inside the post. Problem can be solved by removing the post from bike, unscrew the bottom cap and using fingers manually push the actuator once. After that when post is re-assembled it works normally. 

The actuator mechanism at the bottom of the post seems to be moving freely, so it is likely that there is some stiction in the internal part of the post. I tried now putting couple of drops 10wt suspension oil inside the "mid-shaft" and actuate the locking several times, to get it lubricated properly. When re-assembling I put "slick kick" to all relevant parts... 

Anyone else having similar problems and/or ideas what could be the part and reason causing this stiction appearing every now and then..?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

There are a couple of things you can check. I have experienced in the past where the internal cable gets slightly off track with either the lower or upper pulley and gets seized. Also make sure that the actuator lever arm isn't mangled and making slight contact with the inside of the end cap. 

When it sticks and you remove the end cap to activate it manually, is it difficult to depress the actuator piston that first time? If so, that would suggest possible internal issues rather than the cable getting off track. If you don't mind dismantling the cartridge again, you could go back in and inspect the valve holes while manually activating it. Occasionally, I have found small bits of plastic jammed in there. I also had one situation where the activation of the piston was initially very sticky but resolved when I dipped the valve end in oil and cycled it several times to clean any worn seal grime out of the system. 

I hope this is helpful. Start there and let me know how things go. Sorry it took so long to reply. I've been a little busy resolving some warranty issues with my frame and fork - yay.

Good luck
-Chris


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

The cable is not an issue, it moves freely, also the "actuator lever assembly"... 

Problem is inside the post, pushing the actuator lever or directly pushing the activation rod is very stiff to press first time(after this problem occurs), after the first press/activation that it becomes normal again. So to me it seems almost like there would be some "corrosion" or other chemically happening inside, something gets stuck over time(=not a mechanical block from something being in wrong place), as it always occurs after (at least) overnight standstill, but on the other hand can be couple of days without use and still work normally after that. 

Problem hasn't re-occurred after adding lube oil, and it is relatively quick to fix, so I'll see if the problem will just disappear. If not, maybe I'll do the rebuild later again... 

No worries if replies are delayed, I'm just happy that I got the post again operational and not sagging excessively...


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Glad to hear it's normal for the moment. Hopefully it will continue to run smoothly. 

-Chris


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## monocles (Feb 15, 2012)

Verttii said:


> The cable is not an issue, it moves freely, also the "actuator lever assembly"...
> 
> Problem is inside the post, pushing the actuator lever or directly pushing the activation rod is very stiff to press first time(after this problem occurs), after the first press/activation that it becomes normal again. So to me it seems almost like there would be some "corrosion" or other chemically happening inside, something gets stuck over time(=not a mechanical block from something being in wrong place), as it always occurs after (at least) overnight standstill, but on the other hand can be couple of days without use and still work normally after that.
> 
> ...


I'm having the same issue with my post, you can read about it on page 3. It occurs randomly, sometimes when I'm using the post and more often when it's not in use.

There was a guy on a Swedish forum that had the same problem, and it was resolved by just rebuilding the post. As far as I know he didn't find the fault that made the seizing behaviour.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

*LEV Rotational Play Repair*

I'm posting this here but I also posted it right below the OP. The OP was at max capacity for pictures but luckily I reserved the second post of the thread when I started it.

If you have a SIGNIFICANT amount of rotational play in your post (nose of saddle rotates left and right), this should resolve it or dramatically reduce it.

There appear to be 4 factors that affect rotational stability in the LEV:

1.	The copper guide bushings - these reside in the grooves in the cartridge/stanchion and slide along the groove tracks inside the black casing
2.	The one way roller bearing - if the post rotates one way slightly in the grooves mentioned above, this bearing prevents it from moving back, thus minimizing rotational play
3.	The grooves inside the black outer casing - I suppose these may get worn and potentially widen over time
4.	The grooves on the stanchion - these can likely get a little sloppy with wear over time and therefore allow a little play.

The first two of these factors can be fairly easily replaced. By doing so, you will greatly reduce any rotational play you may be experiencing.

The following procedure was performed on my wife's LEV after the rotational play increased to the point of feeling the saddle move beneath her while pedaling. As always, attempt this at your own risk. Mine went very smoothly however damage to your post is possible and once you start the procedure, there's no going back until you have finished.

1.	You will need to purchase a new one way roller bearing and 3 copper guide bushings. Be sure to order 3 guide bushings. They are available for a reasonable price here:

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=50728&category=3997

2.	I found it easier to get purchase on the old bearing assembly by first removing the nylon inner portion using a screwdriver. Once you do this, you're stuck and will need to follow through to the end of the procedure before your post is functional again.



3.	Next, place your post upright in a vice with soft jaws and use a downhill tire lever (works great) or large screw driver (risk of marring) to gently work the metal outer ring loose. I did a little at a time and worked my way around slowly until it lifted approximately 2-3 mm.



4.	Next, reposition your downhill tire lever underneath the entire metal ring. The tire lever was perfect for this and really helps prevent damage to the post - keep that in mind. Gently lever the ring out by working your way around it gradually.



5.	Clean the bearing surface and grease it lightly with slick honey or other grease to facilitate pressing the new bearing.

6.	Prepare your new bearing. Pay attention to the orientation of the bearing. The surface that should be facing up (visible after installing) has a slightly more prominent and rounded edge when compared to the underside. The first picture below shows the top - it's easier to see this when you have the bearing in front of you.





7.	Gently position the bearing level in the post so that the grooves (guide bushing paths) are lined with the same grooves in the black casing. I used my stanchion with the copper guide bushings in place to line up the new bearing, and pushed it down gently by hand to get it seated.





8.	Once the bearing is in position, you can get it partially seated by using your hands to push the bearing down into place. Be sure to apply even pressure all the way around so that it goes in straight.

9.	Once you get it evenly seated by hand, you can use a hub bearing press attachment and a rubber mallet to finish the job. I used a Hope Pro II Evo hub bearing press (I can't remember the size) to gently tap it into place.





10.	Reassemble your post as directed. Don't forget your new copper guide bushings.



Good luck if you try it and as always, let me know if you have any better suggestions, questions, etc.

-Chris


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Nice guide Chris. I can see myself using this in the future as my post's play is getting noticeably worse. 

As mentioned by Udi a while back, using the moly disulfide grease on the guide bushings might allow them to resist wear a little longer. I had mine setup like this before it was rebuilt by the shop


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

Post Ninja, quietly going boldly where no one has gone before.
Thank you sir. You are a gentleman.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

LOL. You are welcome.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

This is the best maintenance and repair information ever published about a bike part in the history of biking. Thanks.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. Thanks. You're welcome.


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Great source of info guys. Made me think I could gut my 27.2 lev just to top up the air pressure. Looking at the cap on the bottom of the silver shaft with the 14mm hex recess in it. I can't see any hole for the hypodermic. Mine also looks deeper than the one in Monocles picture. Anyone else come across this?


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## monocles (Feb 15, 2012)

onzadog said:


> Great source of info guys. Made me think I could gut my 27.2 lev just to top up the air pressure. Looking at the cap on the bottom of the silver shaft with the 14mm hex recess in it. I can't see any hole for the hypodermic. Mine also looks deeper than the one in Monocles picture. Anyone else come across this?


My hole was almost invisible under some dirt. Are you sure that it's not in there somewhere? It's really small, a needle at around 0.75mm is what fits in the hole.


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Yep, I'm sure. I've cleaned the area. Looked in with a flashlight and traced around with my 22 gauge needle (0.73mm) and found nothing. The needle caught on one little bit but it can't be that. I'd struggle to get a human hair in that. 

Mine also doesn't have the hole on the threaded section between the gold oil chamber and the silver air chamber.

Very odd.


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## Internal14 (Jan 21, 2004)

If you make a bonehead move and loose the actuator rod and cap, which I just had happen, you can make a replacement rod with a Mavic Crossmax Alloy Spoke. Length is 134mm.

Reassembled and is now working like a champ.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

Nice hack!


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Thank you, OP, for all of this great information! All the spare parts needed are currently on the way to me to do a full rebuild. I do want to share a quick tip I learned last night, though.

I had a really sticky post at first. It would drop (but only with more force than usually necessary), but it was raising the post was really sticky (either really slow to rise, or didn't rise at all -- especially out on the trail).

After I followed the steps on KS Adjustable Seatpost - Waterman at Work for the "Regular Seatpost Maintenance" - remove top collar, clean, add slick honey - , put the top collar back on, and started cycling the post, the stickiness was still there. I opened the top collar up again and saw more gunk with the new slick honey I put on. Apparently, the slick honey went down with the post and brought more gunk up with it from the DU Bushing / Roller bearing area. So I repeated the steps a few more times until the honey that came up was clean, lo and behold my LEV now works like a charm.

I still plan to pull the post apart so that I can give it a real clean down there, but after my shipment of a spare DU Bushing arrives. At least now I don't have to put on a regular seatpost while waiting for my spare parts!

BTW, getting the top collar off the first time was a real PITA even with a strap wrench. Don't give up, it will give.


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Just did the full cartridge rebuild following the OP's instructions and my lev is back in business! Thank you OP!!!

I didn't have all my spares ready, just had my 5WT suspension oil and slick honey and all tools but no spare seals or DU bushing. Spares are about just a week away from getting here but I couldn't take my lev anymore so I just went ahead and did it. Gladly, my DU bushing came out clean. I pulled it out slowly instead of the sudden jerk method and was able to get it out in one piece. The IFP came off so I spent quite a bit of time getting it back on.

Issue was that the post would compress alright, but sometimes would get stuck in the dropped position. Findings after disassembly:
1. Gunk all over the inside of the mast, especially around the copper guide bushing area. This was probably the cause of the stickiness.
2. Upon opening the cartridge, barely any oil left in there. What oil was left was dark and mucky. I found a lot inside the air chamber. Must be a bad seal that I should replace soon. I'll do that at the next interval as I'm still waiting for my seals to arrive.


Tips for first timers:
1. USE a rod or protected screwdriver as indicated in the post to PUSH out the tube via the valve core side. Pushing it out just a bit with your finger and pulling the tube out the other end will definitely disengage the IFP.
2. When refitting the tube with IFP, I used the cap of a small spray bottle to push in the IFP those precious 2mm. Then refitted the cartridge head to seat it into the last mm.
3. Be ready to get messy. I had fork oil all over the place. This happened when I was trying to refit the damper assembly with oil already in place. Had to do it twice coz I lost almost all the oil in the process. Second time was cleaner. Just do it slowly.
4. It's a lot harder than in the videos to grab onto the cartridge shaft with a strap wrench. I wrapped it tightly with an inner tube first before fitting the strap wrench and countering with a 15mm spanner. I tried the latex glove method but didn't work for me.

First time to get dirty with suspension for me. Was pretty difficulty but all in all a successful and fulfilling rebuild. Post is working flawlessly in the stand now. Can't wait to take it out to the trails this weekend. Thanks again, OP!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice! Glad it got you up and running. Once you get those seals swapped out, you should be good for quite a while. 

-Chris


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

OK not so perfect after all. Post goes up and down fine it seems. I left it in dropped position, took a shower, then when I got back to it stuck down again. After pressing the lever a second time it popped back up. Seems there is a bad stiction in the first few mm of travel. Any ideas? I put slick honey on the copper guides, on the inside of seal collar, around the roller bearings... Did I miss a spot?

*After a bit more investigation, I found that the post gets sticky in its first movement after even just 10 minutes. This is regardless if I left it fully dropped, midway through, or fully extended (I can feel more pressure is needed to drop it). After whatever is sticky is dislodged, it moves freely after that until the next time I leave it in a position. So, I'm thinking:
1. I cleaned out the inner tube and the IFP. No degreaser but cleaned it dry with a cloth. Should I have oiled and greased it up before reinstallation?
2. Maybe a bad quad ring on the IFP already, causing the stiction? This is probably the case as I did feel the IFP took a lot of pressure for it to move against the outer tube.
3. Too much friction at the roller bearing, guide bushing, DU bushing, or seal collar?

In any case, I'll do the rebuild again when the seals arrive and report back my findings.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hard to say exactly what is causing that but there are a few places to check, especially when you get back in there to swap the seals. 

1. Make sure you set the pressure between 150-250 PSI. I tend to go with 200. 
2. When you have it apart again, take the DU bushing and slide it by hand up and down the stanchion to see if it feels snug. Sometimes they look completely fine but have deformed and tightened up. 
3. Yes, I slick honey the roller bearing as well as placing a thin layer over the copper guides and inner surface of the DU bushing. I also remove the dust wiper seal and clean it. I place slick honey in the gutter that it resides before putting the wiper back in, then smear a little more inside the seal. This helps create a good water tight barrier. 
4. The other possibility is that your internal cable got a little stretched/damaged. Once it's too long/damaged, the post will act quite inconsistent. Check to be sure there is no slack in that cable. With the external cable disconnected, the barrel at the junction box should be right up at the top of that box with no slack. If you see slack, that may be it. 
5. I suppose it could also be your internals but here's an easy way to check: remove the cartridge and activate it on your work bench. If there's no stichion there, it's probably happening outside the cartridge. 

Good luck and keep me posted. 
-Chris


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Great idea on #5, I will do this next week before pulling everything apart again. Might save me the trouble of opening up the internals again until I really need to. Based on your suggestions, the DU bushing is suspect #1 now. It did look worn and took a bit to move it up and down the stanchion. Internal cable still holding up well.

Side note: I put 200psi in, but I fear for my manhood with that rate of return. Haha! I'll bring it back down to factory 150psi later on.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. You definitely want to be standing up all the way when you activate it. 

Good luck and let me know how it goes when you swap the DU bushing and test the cartridge. 

-Chris


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Hi Chris,

Finally got my stuff and did a full rebuild today (changed all seals you recommended except one), DU bushing, roller bearing, wiper seal, and copper guides. My goodness, it took much longer than I expected! Finally done, though.

New stuff learned today:
1. In absence of a vise, the post in the bike works well. You'll need this (or a proper vise) when removing and installing the one way roller bearing.

2. I don't know how you got that one way roller bearing out with a DH tire lever. I followed your steps but I couldn't get it further than the lip. While the lever pulls one side up above the lip, the other end counters and pushes down the other side. So, I couldn't get more than one side above the lip more than 1mm. What i did to get it all the way out was to wedge a 12mm spanner against the upper lip, and hammered the spanner upwards with another spanner to basically hammer it out from below. Did this all the way around.

3. In absence of a Hope Pro 2 bearing tool, a 24mm socket does great in pushing in the new roller bearing. 

4. I could not get to the 1.8x5.3 seal. If that section of the assembly for you came loose by itself, mine would just NOT budge at all. I went at it for about an hour and finally just gave up. I hope that seal is still good. Otherwise all the other seals were pretty easy to replace except for the inner quad in the IFP. Had to use a small tool to get to that one.

5. I almost messed up and hammered the DU bushing in before inserting the post with the copper guides. Good thing I figured it out before getting all the way in! My new DU bushing is fit really tight. I worry that it wont come out clean next time I need to rebuild.

That's it! Post seems solid in the stand. Let's see how it does this weekend.


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Update: I think I missed a couple ml of oil. I couldn't seal it up with oil overflowing. The ifp was in the right spot by putting the cap on before adding oil, but when it was Time to seal the cap wouldn't thread in so I kept opening and removing little by little till it would. Must have gone too far. I have about 1-2mm of sinkage. I'll have to open it up again later on when I have some time to top it off. 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I used to struggle with this often. Couldn't quite figure out why the cap wouldn't screw back on sometimes and other times would go on like cake. At one point I also thought it was due to too much oil. It actually isn't. If the cap won't thread, all you have to do is activate the piston and push that inner tube just a little further into the oil. Just a mm at a time and then try threading again. I'm sure at this point, you're getting pretty frustrated but it sounds like your super close to getting it perfect. 

Don't worry about that tiny seal. I almost didn't even list it because it's difficult to get to (more thread lock) unless it comes loose on its own. I don't feel like it's important, especially since it's not a moving seal like the IFP seals. When I do my own, I don't replace it. 

Let me know how things go when you try again. Good luck. 

-Chris


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

cakelly4 said:


> I used to struggle with this often. Couldn't quite figure out why the cap wouldn't screw back on sometimes and other times would go on like cake. At one point I also thought it was due to too much oil. It actually isn't. If the cap won't thread, all you have to do is activate the piston and push that inner tube just a little further into the oil. Just a mm at a time and then try threading again. I'm sure at this point, you're getting pretty frustrated but it sounds like your super close to getting it perfect.
> 
> Don't worry about that tiny seal. I almost didn't even list it because it's difficult to get to (more thread lock) unless it comes loose on its own. I don't feel like it's important, especially since it's not a moving seal like the IFP seals. When I do my own, I don't replace it.
> 
> ...


This makes so much sense! Now I just got excited to do it all over again, but will have to order another DU bushing as a spare (I should have gotten more to begin with!).

I measured it this morning and actually it is only 1mm of sinkage. It's probably something only noticable in the stand and not out on the trails, but it still bugs me that I didn't get it right LOL. The movement, however, is now back to how it was out of the box. Maybe even better!

So, while I'm sure a lot of stuff was wrong with my post already before this rebuild, I believe the biggest culprit was a bad wiper seal introducing gunk into the post. Because of that, the DU bushing surface was already scratched up, the one way roller bearings didn't roll, and the raceways would constantly be gunked up. It probably didn't help that I gave it too much slick honey under the wiper seal. While a light application of slick honey helps with the new seals and all, a load of slick honey with a bad wiper seal = slick gunk all over the inside making everything a lot worse.


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

I came across this on eBay:
Kind Shock Improved Dust Wiper for All Lev i900 i950 etc Models Except 27 2mm | eBay

If my new dust wiper doesn't hold up for very long, I may give this a try.

Anyone tried this out yet?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Weird. I've never had problems with my stock wiper (never even replaced it). I wonder how much better that one truly is. 

-Chris


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

So I went on my first ride after the rebuild. It was a really wet ride with crap and water getting to the post. Unfortunately, the wiper seal didn't do its job against water. It might be because I only LIGHTLY greased under the wiper seal with slick honey.

I also might try that "better" seal. But until then I'll do something fugly!









Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Fwiw I had water intrusion issues and found it gets in through the cable junction not the top seal. When you push the post down you can hear air vent out the cable junction when it goes up if it's wet it sucks the water in. I split a tube and wrapped it around the post collar right below the seal and zip tied it. I left it long enough it hung down below the cable junction a bit and never had water intrusion issues again.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

My post was saggin the other day. I have trail ride this bike in awhile, it's been a bike park machine this year. Post would sag if put all the way up then stop about a inch down. Pulled the post and found the bottom cap was unthreading from the main body. Tightening it up and it's flawless again.


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Aside from the fugly hack, two new things today:
1. It's possible to open up the cartridge without removing it from the body (I wanted to fill up with oil but didn't want to damage my DU bushing. Make sure the post is fully extended, don't remove the post cap, and push the stanchion as far in as possible. The end of the cartridge should be just almost level with the end of the outer. When the oil overflows, it will spill into the inside of the post. Just wrap a clean rag around the thin inner stanchion and push the post back upwards into the outer. Repeat until you get all excess oil out.

2. After doing the above, I noticed that I still had a bit of sinkage, but only when I had the cable installed. With cable unattached, no sinking. I found that my inner cable is too tight and the ~1mm movement after the external cable ferrule is installed is activating the post. The weird thing is that I didn't touch my inner cable at all, and I'm pretty sure the inner cable could stretch or wear, but probably not shrink. Is it the few mm I lost because the factory tightened the actuator and bottom cap just a few nm more than I did? Maybe. I'm gonna replace my inner cable when those parts arrive, but until then I have to install the external cable ferrule the wrong way around. I'll just tape up the KS logo cap so that it doesn't move. More fugliness.


I was sharing all this to a few friends running reverbs and thomson droppers, and was being told that I should just sell the post and get one of theirs. Thought about it for a while, but said no thanks. Every dropper will start to suck at one point, I'll stick to the one I can easily service myself without having to send it in for weeks/months.


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

dirtrider76 said:


> My post was saggin the other day. I have trail ride this bike in awhile, it's been a bike park machine this year. Post would sag if put all the way up then stop about a inch down. Pulled the post and found the bottom cap was unthreading from the main body. Tightening it up and it's flawless again.


Thanks man. I've threaded and tightened the bottom cap well. My problem was definitely the missing oil previously, and now the tight inner cable. I will try that tip regarding the cable junction, though. I wonder if drilling a hole in the bottom cap will help. That way air displacement during actuation will happen in the frame instead of through the cable junction.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're right to be suspicious of an internal cable "shrinking." One thing that can cause perceived shortening is when the metal barrel at the junction box end gets a little rotated in the claw. By rotating slightly, it tightens the cable. Check there and apply a little slick honey so the barrel can "relax" into its position. 

-Chris

Also, for the dust wiper: I always remove mine from the collar when servicing it. I then fill the groove it sits in with slick honey before replacing it. Then I smear some more slick honey on the glide surface of it. This helps create a more water tight barrier. Most of the time I get water in there from washing the bike after a nasty ride so I take care to avoid nailing it with the hose.


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## Giber (Dec 10, 2007)

Hello, and a big thanks in advance because I'm optimistic that someone here has already experienced what I am dealing with and hopefully has a solution.

Also... I apologize as I am not exactly familiar with all the terminology.

I am in the process of doing a complete tear down and re-assemble of my supernatural post. I am not by any means a master mechanic, but I am generally capable and competent and have a great set of tools to help get the job done. I have done many a fork and shock rebuild (with the help of my two friends google and you tube) SO... anyway on with the question.

I have managed to disassemble everything and was feeling pretty good about myself until I realized that the large black o-ring, possibly also called the IFP was still inside the seatpost tube. In the process of trying to remove it I managed to push the damn thing as deep as possible into the post so it is now sitting inside the tube touching what would be the underside of the seat clamp (if that makes sense). HELP.. I have tried to retrieve it with a plastic rod- so as to not damage the inner seal or the inner of the post with no success. I'm hoping there is a solution besides removing the seat clamp as I hear that can be very difficult..

Thank you thank you, 
Ryan


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I did experience this and hopefully this technique will help: Drizzle a little fork oil in there to get everything lubed up and slick. Then, simply tap the tube (firmly) repeatedly on your work bench to shake the IFP down closer to your reach. You're basically shaking it down like a ketchup bottle but bumping it against the work bench to help slide it down into reach. This worked for me but I can't guarantee that it works every time because I've only serviced a couple of the SNs. Good luck and keep us posted.

-Chris


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## Giber (Dec 10, 2007)

Thank you for the reply!

Before posting I Ketchup bottled the Shut out of that thing- what I didn't do is add/drizzle some fork oil first.. I will give that a go and see what happens, at least it feels good knowing that I'm on the right track. 

I'm not sure what the end of that tube looks like but I'm convinced there must be a puddle of JB weld waiting for anyone that does exactly what I did it catches that IFP and never lets go.. 

SO.. I've drizzled and shook a bit, but now it's off to work and I'll have to continue the shaking after work. I've left some oil in the tube hoping it will do its thing while it sits for several hours. Next step is going to be to use a coat hanger with a softened edge to see if it will break loose. 

Thanks again!

I'm also going to pull the trigger on a new LEV I've wanted one for quite some time I like the fixed cable of the LEV that doesn't move up and down with the post, and the all black looks damn good too. If I can't get this thing unseated and rebuilt I might be posting it up for sale on this thread and someone with more shaking skills could pick it up cheap and rebuild and move on down the trail.....

Ride Fast,
Ryan


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Another idea is to use a crochet hook to reach in and get some purchase on the inner IFP quad ring, then pull. Good luck. And yes, LEV = better

-Chris


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## Giber (Dec 10, 2007)

Well... At this point I'm pretty certain that the IFP is never coming out of there. I thought the crochet hook was a great idea I went and bought two of them and figured that they would actually make a good addition to my tool collection. They are stiff and have a nice 'hook' to retrieve things just like this and all with nice soft rounded edges. BUT.. I just can't seem to get any purchase on the IFP buried in there. I'm not sure what is holding it up and why it is so "stuck". I have also shook the hell out of the thing.

Anyway, I'm ordering the Lev to get me up and rolling again and I'm pretty certain that all its going to take is me investing in a second post for that thing to break free.. 

This weekend I'm also going to try and shoot some compressed air in there to see if that could jump it loose, and I've also currently got it sitting in the freezer hoping that it might contract in size so I can ketchup bottle it out. I'm also going to try and remove the seat boat clamp and see if that will help. 

If you can't tell I hate to fail, and I have another bike I could use the post on. 

Blah, Blah, Blah.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Damn. That thing is evil. Good ideas though. Keep us posted. 

-Chris


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## specialev (Jun 17, 2011)

Is there any gap between the bushing and the back of the tube? If there is try a molly bolt on a long screw or an expanding shank bolt to expand internally in the bushing and draw it out.


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Watch the reverb rebuild video by rockshox on YouTube. They have an interesting technique of pulling out the ifp using nothing but a lot of cable ties. It sounds stupid but it is actually genius 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

It's a four part series video. I can't remember which one just watch all of them and wait for the cable tie trick. If you have a gap between the ifp and the end of the tube, it should work. 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## dcalabrese22 (Jul 29, 2013)

My Lev DX has developed an annoying issue and I'm hoping someone can help me figure out how to fix. If I'm sitting on the saddle and press the lever, the seatpost won't descend. In order to get it to go down, I have to unweight the saddle, press lever and then sit on the saddle. Any ideas on what could be the problem? KS only told me to check the seatpost collar torque. I've taken it apart and regreased everything with slickhoney, but that didn't work and have tried the air removal technique. Anyone else experience this problem? The post is only 3 months old.

Thanks!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Try increasing cable tension slightly by adjusting the barrel adjuster. If the tension is just a little off, it won't fully activate and can behave strangely like that. Seems weird but tends to do just what you're describing. Start there and let me know how that goes. 

-Chris


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## dcalabrese22 (Jul 29, 2013)

cakelly4 said:


> Try increasing cable tension slightly by adjusting the barrel adjuster. If the tension is just a little off, it won't fully activate and can behave strangely like that. Seems weird but tends to do just what you're describing. Start there and let me know how that goes.
> 
> -Chris


No luck.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

OK. Bummer. 

Phase 2: 

Have you ever removed the bottom cap since you've owned the post? And if so, did you remember to purge the air with the cap slightly unscrewed before tightening it down the rest of the way? If you didn't purge air between the cartridge and black portion of the post, there can be resistance when dropping. 

CAUTION - don't remove the bottom cap if you haven't already until you fully understand this. There's a video on the KS site that describes this step. If you're not careful, you can snap the internal cable. 

Try that (unless you haven't removed the cap before) and let me know. Don't worry, I have more suggestions. 

Good luck
Chris


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## dcalabrese22 (Jul 29, 2013)

cakelly4 said:


> OK. Bummer.
> 
> Phase 2:
> 
> ...


I have removed the cap before and I have tried to purge the air out.


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

So that's what that step was for

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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

dcalabrese22 said:


> I have removed the cap before and I have tried to purge the air out.


OK. Last thing to check. And I'm going to sound like a broken record here. If the internal cable is even a little slack, the activation of the post will be very inconsistent and if it's loose, tightening the external cable via the barrel adjuster won't be enough.

Check inside the junction box and disconnect the external cable. The barrel that the claw attaches to should be very tight up into the top of the junction box (in fact it should even be somewhat tough to get the claw around it). If it's got any slack in it, that's the next thing to fix. Let me know what you find. After that I got nothing

Good luck!
Chris


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## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

Is there anyone that does the cartridge service for $?
I really don't have all of the tools to do it myself and will rather pay someone that has already done it and is familiar with the whole procedure. 
Is it even worth it to go that route?
I have a Supernatural


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I do but they also recently started selling replacement oil sticks (cartridges) on sites like Universal Cycles. You may want to look into that as well. Requires less tools. In fact the ones required for that swap are ones you would benefit from having anyway in order to do the routine service (cleaning and re-lubing the glide portions). PM me if you decide you'd rather send it somewhere. 

-Chris


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## specialev (Jun 17, 2011)

I opened up my KS LEVto start the tear down last night and I think I found the problem to my sticking seat post. It's chock full of dirt and grit. My bad for never having serviced it in ~2 years of year round riding. I can't believe it still barely functioned! 

It looks like I can get all the parts I need to rebuild it with the exception of the roller bearing. This part is out of stock on all the websites I've checked. Any recommendations on where I can find this part?


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

specialev said:


> I opened up my KS LEVto start the tear down last night and I think I found the problem to my sticking seat post. It's chock full of dirt and grit. My bad for never having serviced it in ~2 years of year round riding. I can't believe it still barely functioned!
> 
> It looks like I can get all the parts I need to rebuild it with the exception of the roller bearing. This part is out of stock on all the websites I've checked. Any recommendations on where I can find this part?


Wow you're lucky to get 2 years out of that. I need to clean out dirt after every dirty ride.

Not available on universal cycles or arts cyclery? Roller bearings don't always need to be replaced. You can try degreasing and degreasing first if you really can't find one.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## specialev (Jun 17, 2011)

NADA on either site. The bearing shell was pretty badly corroded due to my lack of maintenance. I also wasn't overly careful when I took it apart given my observation of the corrosion so I lost a few of the rollers. It needs to be replaced.


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## miketech1 (Jun 20, 2006)

Wanted to post a quick thank you for posting the how-to. I just serviced my Lev without issue and it works perfect now. A word of warning though, when you take the cap off with snap ring pliers, if you have a "squishy" seatpost like I did, the pressure inside sounds like a gunshot going off in your garage. It is THAT LOUD!. Scared the crap out of me. I took all precautions and nothing happened. Yes, all air was let out of the Lev before hand. 

Again, thanks for posting such detailed instructions as it made it extremely easy to service. Works like new again.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. I'm glad it helped you out. Thanks for the feedback!

-Chris


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

is there anywhere 'online' that sells just the brass pins and its various sizes? the rings are an easy purchase, but not these...


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

A wealth of info in this post, thanks for sharing. I have a KS Lev Integra that came with my 2014 Kona and it worked ok-ish up until now. I sometimes had to fiddle with the cable jacket where it comes out of the frame, to convince the post to stay anywhere but in the fully extended position. As of two days ago, no amount of fiddling with the cable allows the post to stop anywhere but in the fully extended position where it is solid, no sag. I have never serviced the post before, but I keep the stanchion clean and lubed religiously after each ride, etc.
I do plan to take it apart over the winter, but any idea of what can cause this all of a sudden? I hope to be able to ride the bike a few more weeks before I put it away for winter. Thx


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

spyghost said:


> is there anywhere 'online' that sells just the brass pins and its various sizes? the rings are an easy purchase, but not these...


Kind Shock Lower Guide Bushing

Universal Cycles also has them typically. One size fits all KS posts.



mevnet said:


> A wealth of info in this post, thanks for sharing. I have a KS Lev Integra that came with my 2014 Kona and it worked ok-ish up until now. I sometimes had to fiddle with the cable jacket where it comes out of the frame, to convince the post to stay anywhere but in the fully extended position. As of two days ago, no amount of fiddling with the cable allows the post to stop anywhere but in the fully extended position where it is solid, no sag. I have never serviced the post before, but I keep the stanchion clean and lubed religiously after each ride, etc.
> I do plan to take it apart over the winter, but any idea of what can cause this all of a sudden? I hope to be able to ride the bike a few more weeks before I put it away for winter. Thx


First, be certain that you have the newer bottom assembly for the Integra. It's pictured in my initial post. If you have the older style, KS may still be willing to swap it out for you. They were doing this at no charge when the improved version was made. If you already have the newer version, pull the post and disconnect it from your bike. Try manually activating it (can be done with your saddle against the bench and using an Allen key to carefully activate it while compressing the post). If the problem is resolved, then you need to figure out a better system with your bike's cable routing. You may just need to replace the cable and housing as well. Let us know what you find.

-Chris


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

Thanks Chris, I have the old style, that only shows up in their How-To Install video for the Integra, not the new maintenance video. 
I have contacted KS before and I got no answer whatsoever, asking about the new actuator. Is the old style as easy to check without the actuator cable connected? 
Cable routing is as designed by Kona, internal routing, and bike came with it.


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## sancycling (Sep 6, 2012)

*Pictures of piston seal*

Chris,
Here are the pictures of the seal we talked about. I'll let you do the explaining and hopefully we can find where to source it.

Pic 1 - Faces outside of the rod
Pic 2 - Faces inside of the rod, holds oil inside.
Pic 3 - This shows more or less the geometry of the seal/u-cup.

Dimentions. 10x15x3mm. (EIT, not sure what is the material, feels like polyurethane)


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

ok so here it is. it does not look like the original or the updated one...here are some pics. With no cable installed it works perfect. I installed Shimano Sp41 cable and housing, best of the best, and it's a pogo stick. If I pull on the cable housing it stops where it is. It behaves as if the two small springs cannot push the actuator arm/ housing back and it stays engaged all the time. If I let the cable lose, no zip ties to the frame it works ok-ish. Any ideas?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that is the problem that led to the upgraded end piece. It's also why KS was upgrading people at no cost. If you purchased the bike new with that post, I feel like they should upgrade you. It was a widely known problem (somewhere in my thread is a link to another thread just on this issue). Actually, here's the thread. Starts mentioning the upgrade on the 2nd page.

http://forums.mtbr.com/components/ks-lev-integra-where-863686-2.html

If it were me, I'd keep calling KS to get the upgraded version (calling is WAY better than emailing typically). If you bought the bike used or it's somehow not covered, it may even be worth paying a little for the upgrade. Be sure to mention the thread where numerous people were upgraded at no cost.

Let us know how this turns out.

-Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

sancycling said:


> Chris,
> Here are the pictures of the seal we talked about. I'll let you do the explaining and hopefully we can find where to source it.
> 
> Pic 1 - Faces outside of the rod
> ...


Thanks for posting this. For those unsure what this is, it's the seal located inside the cartridge end cap. The specs and letters "EIT" are actually printed on it. Unfortunately, this is proving difficult to find (not located at oringstore.com). One of the people posting on this thread, Laterilus, may have another source to find this particular size seal. So far, I have not been able to come up with anything. Maybe try PMing Laterilus. You could also contact the oringstore to see if they have any suggestions. I believe they also make custom sized rings. Let us know what you find. If the seal is too damaged to reuse, an actual cut cross sectional view would be helpful (unless you think it's exactly like the cross section silhouette you already pictured).

Thanks for your work! I hope you can get your post back up and running.

-Chris


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## specialev (Jun 17, 2011)

Big shout out to the good people at KS. Specifically Chris (different Chris from the OP) in the service department. I called him up to ask about the roller bearing I couldn't find at Universal or BTI and he ends up shipping me a new one for free. 

Definitely make a phone call if you are having an issue. Way better than an email.


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Hi guys!

So I tried dismantling my lev again to replace the internal cable and I found my DU bushing was on too tight. I expected this because I had to give it quite a bit of force to get seated during install. I've tried the channel locks method but it is just on too tight.

I'm already resigned to the idea that I will need to pull tight enough to destroy the DU bushing. I have a spare already so it's OK.

My question: When I do get it out and the DU bushing is then two pieces, how to remove the part that is still stuck in there? I'm thinking a vice grip on the DU bushing outer? or is there a space between the DU and the roller bearings where I can lodge a DH tire lever into?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

In most cases the copper guide bushings will still remove the DU bushing from the black portion of the post even if it makes the inner layer slide out some. Just give it a good solid tug while it's in your vice and you should be fine. If it does get stuck in there, let us know. 

-Chris


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

cakelly4 said:


> Thanks for posting this. For those unsure what this is, it's the seal located inside the cartridge end cap. The specs and letters "EIT" are actually printed on it. Unfortunately, this is proving difficult to find (not located at oringstore.com).
> ....


This seal is easy to damage completly. I washed my bike upside down and water with dirt damaged it to a stage when it almost not moving.

So far I've found online only 10x16 seals, but not 10x15.

Temporary I've assembled the seatpost using 2 regular simple o-rings of similar size. But the rod is leaking oil while moving. So I guess I'll have to refill oil every few rides.


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## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

I just replaced my hydraulic cartridge from the gold colored cartridge to the black one and noticed that if my bike sits overnight, I have to nudge it to get it to raise or drop. After the initial nudge, the post works fine. Does any know if there is a break in period? this never happened on my post when it was brand new.

Im going to try to add more pressure and loosen the seatpost clamp a bit to see if it helps, but want to get your opinion.

Thanks!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

New cartridges will sometimes need a break in from my experience. In fact I just did the same swap for a guy and his did the same. It's likely due to brand new seals being a little snug in there. It will likely improve with some mileage but keep us updated of it doesn't. 

-Chris


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## sancycling (Sep 6, 2012)

I was able to find something that might work to replace the seal inside the cartridge cap. I just purchased some to test. It will take me a while before I can actually get to try them, but I'll update once I get a chance.

Check them out. NOTE: It has not been verified that the seal works!!!

https://www.mfpseals.com/c/79/msuc-metric-u-cup-urethane.html

MSUC-010X015X03.0

Cheers.


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

Got my Integra back from service in less than 10 business days (Canada serice in Montreal) and it has the new actuator that does not depend on cable housing movement. So far so good testing it in the garage, still to take it to the trails. They sent me new cable, and the cable now feeds through the remote trigger (also provided). Looks like they even cleaned & lubed the internals so it's like getting a brand new post. Hope it's going to last. Couple of pics


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Excellent! Glad they hooked you up. 

Chris


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

Thanks a lot for your help and suggestions


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

sancycling said:


> I was able to find something that might work to replace the seal inside the cartridge cap. I just purchased some to test. It will take me a while before I can actually get to try them, but I'll update once I get a chance.
> 
> Check them out. NOTE: It has not been verified that the seal works!!!
> 
> ...


Sweet. I hope it works and I'm definitely interested to know. Give us an update when you've had a chance to test it out.



mevnet said:


> Thanks a lot for your help and suggestions


No worries. I'm psyched that they hooked you up!

-Chris


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## Lithified (Apr 14, 2007)

Entirely possible I missed this in this thread so pardon if repeating a previous question butttt......

Is the consensus that the Integra is worth it over an external model? In other words, is the hassle of internal cable routing worth the model without the internal kevlar cable, which has proven to be a major PITA before?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I would say that with the abundance of internally routed bike frames these days, the Integra is a better way to go. The Kevlar cable is really not that bad once you get skilled in replacing it but if you have a bike set up for an Integra, it'd definitely save you some frustration. 

-Chris


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## xymaro (Oct 10, 2015)

Hello everyone, I'm writing from Italy and I need your help to solve a problem to my Ks Lev Integra 150mm first version.
My seatpost didn’t block well and then I decided to service it according to the instructions provided by cakelly4.
After service the seatpost it hangs stably but lost 5mm stroke.
Even without getting on the saddle it remains compressed as 5mm.
Pulling the seatpost it recovers the right length, but when I leave the traction recompress 5mm.
I think the problem is due to the process of entering the oil which leaves me some doubts.
In particular by inserting the piston into the inner tube keeping pressed the actuator some oil comes out from the piston and oil deposit into the outer tube, above the IFP. So when I screw the oil cap oil and air inside the tube. The decrease in volume due to screwing the cap pressurizes the air and I think this is the cause of the problem.
Have you news of how to solve the problem?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

xymaro said:


> I think the problem is due to the process of entering the oil which leaves me some doubts.
> In particular by inserting the piston into the inner tube keeping pressed the actuator some oil comes out from the piston and oil deposit into the outer tube, above the IFP. So when I screw the oil cap oil and air inside the tube. The decrease in volume due to screwing the cap pressurizes the air and I think this is the cause of the problem.
> Have you news of how to solve the problem?


If I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like you may not be filling the oil properly. When you reassemble the LEV, the IFP should be almost to the top of the middle tube. When you fill the middle tube with oil, you should continue filling and allow the oil to over flow into the outer tube (on top of the IFP) all the way up to the threaded portion of the outer tube. This is to prevent any air from being in there when you screw the cap back on. As you screw the cap back on, more oil will over flow out of the outer tube.

Let me know how that goes and I'll be happy to answer any other questions you may have.

Good luck,
Chris


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## xymaro (Oct 10, 2015)

cakelly4 said:


> If I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like you may not be filling the oil properly. When you reassemble the LEV, the IFP should be almost to the top of the middle tube. When you fill the middle tube with oil, you should continue filling and allow the oil to over flow into the outer tube (on top of the IFP) all the way up to the threaded portion of the outer tube. This is to prevent any air from being in there when you screw the cap back on. As you screw the cap back on, more oil will over flow out of the outer tube.
> 
> Let me know how that goes and I'll be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
> 
> ...


Thank you Chris!
I'll try again!
But I do not understand how screwing the cap the excess oil will flow out. My cap has not the small hole that I've seen in some photos and I think the oil can't get out through the threads. I think srewing the cap the excess of oil will push the IFP down inside.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

The small hole is only on the Supernatural/Dropzone. The cap won't push the IFP in any farther than necessary. It should work great. Good luck and give me an update after you try. 

-Chris


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Any use of putting something like slickhoney on the seals inside the cartridge or will 5wt fork oil suffice?

Does the tube where the IFP slide on require oil or grease?

Secondly my DU bushing carrier is stuck against the collar, is this problematic?

Last, how easily should the damper assembly glide inside the stantion with the actuation piston depressed? Should it be almost frictionless or is some stiction/friction normal? For instance putting 20psi in it and depressing the piston doesn't move it.


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## MustG0Faster (Aug 27, 2012)

@mevnet I did not know that KS performed service within Canada. Which address did you have to ship it to? Did you arrange it directly with them or through KS USA?


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

MustG0Faster said:


> @mevnet I did not know that KS performed service within Canada. Which address did you have to ship it to? Did you arrange it directly with them or through KS USA?


Did the RA# through the Kona dealer in town. Pretty sure they sent it to 
Company: Cycles Lambert
Address: 5489 Byrne Road Unit 104
Burnaby, BC V5J 3J1
Tel: +418-835-1685
Fax: +418- 835-5322
E-Mail: [email protected]
Web: www.cycleslambert.com

 You can find them on the Worldwide Partners | KS Suspension ? Get Down and Dirty page. Good luck


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## crocus (Apr 13, 2010)

Hi guys,

I have problem with my LEV integra, it is leaking oil. I have tried everything (I've done at least 15 rebuilds :madman , I have changed all the seals , polished internal shafts but with no luck. Yesterday I've done last rebuild and if it fails again I will send it somewhere for a service. 
However I wanted to share some info that I acquired in all this. First let me show you a tool that I've made for easier assembling of IFP and bottom piston.







These bullet tools are made from self-lubricating plastic and they really make your life a lot easier.
Second thing that I've discovered is that Reverb stealth is using almost the same seal in bottom piston. It is 1mm thicker but it fits fine.







It is good to check at your local bike service, they sometimes have opened service kits so you can buy only specific seal. I got this one for free 

That is it from me, if anyone have something to add regarding my oil leaking problem I would be glad to hear it.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hey Crocus, 

Those little bullets are great. Where/what did you use for them? 

When you say your post is leaking, are you actually seeing oil leaking? If so, from where?

-Chris


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

What could be wrong if I don't notice an increase in the required force to compress the rebuilt cartridge after inflating it. I tried up too 100psi.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

CS645 said:


> What could be wrong if I don't notice an increase in the required force to compress the rebuilt cartridge after inflating it. I tried up too 100psi.


I'm not sure what you're talking about but I will say the recommended pressure is between 150 and 250 PSI. Might need you to explain more to help you.

-Chris


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Well, I tried to clean everything up (the oil inside was not quite dirty) *EDIT: I meant the oil WAS quite dirty*, I filled the cartridge with fresh 5WT fork oil, reinserted the damper assembly depressing the rod. Inflated it, but I don't feel a difference if it is inflated or not even at 150psi. I can move the damper assembly tube in and out of the cartridge without depressing the rod till half way and only then it locks.

To be honest I don't completely understand how the cartridge internals work, just tried to follow the procedure.

I can imaging the damper assembly is not clean enough inside, so I might be pushing too much oil out when reinserting it?

When leaving the valve assembly and IFP on when reinserting the metal tube they're on into the cartridge, it's is not possible to get oil there, but I assume that's not required, only on the inside where the damper assembly goes?

It's a KS LEV 150mm


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

OK. I think you may be reassembling wrong. First off, were you experiencing a problem and that's why you opened the cartridge? If so what was the problem? Also, did you replace the seals or just the oil?

When you reassemble, there are 3 main tubes:

1. The outer tube or stanchion
2. The "middle" tube - this is the one the Internal Floating Piston (IFP) sits/slides on
3. The "inner most" tube or damper - the cartridge cap sits on this one. 

Reassembly:

A. Take #2 and attach the schrader assembly to one end. Slide the IFP on the other end. The IFP should be positioned with the outer seal closer to the end OPPOSITE the schrader assembly end. Also, your IFP should be on the opposite end of #2 and only a few milimeters from the end of the tube once in position
B. Take #2 and insert into #1. Keep your finger in #2 while you push it in until it pops in place. Your finger will keep the IFP from sliding off of #2 as you insert it. 
C. Now your IFP may be at the very end of the tube. You can take the cartridge end cap (by itself) and thread it all the way on, then off. This will push the IFP into the appropriate position. 
D. Fill oil into #2 slowly until it overflows into #1 and keep filling until the oil reaches the threads of #1 or to the brim of #1. Either way is fine. 
E. Slide cartridge end cap onto #3 and slide it all the way down toward the damper end until it stops.
F. Insert activation rod and piston (little silver cap) into #3 and press/activate piston
G. With piston held down, insert #3 into #2. Use the cartridge end cap to push it in until the threads engage, then let go of the piston and finish tightening the threads. This helps make sure you only insert #3 as far as needed without going too far. If the cap won't tighten, you may need to push the piston and insert #3 slightly farther in until the threads engage better. DO NOT ACTIVATE THE POST AT THIS POINT
H. Add 200 psi air using your shock pump
I. The post should work now. 

Here's how the post works. 

1. Saddle is up
-Oil is inside #2 aside from a small amount on the end cap side of the IFP. 
-#3 is extended out all the way
-200 psi of air is between #1 and #2 and on the opposite side of the IFP as the oil
-the IFP is near the end cap side
2. Sit on saddle and activate post (open damper)
-#3 slides into #2 and oil is displaced toward the end cap
-oil having no place else to go, pushes IFP toward schrader end 
-air pressure between #1 and #2 increases as IFP gets closer to schrader end
3. Let go of lever (damper closes)
-#3 locked inside #2 
-lots of pressure in air side
4. Activate lever while saddle unweighted
-air pushes IFP toward end cap 
-IFP pushes oil toward end cap, then back into #2
-Oil displaces #3 out into extended position
-saddle is up

Let me know how this goes. If you're still having trouble, you can ship it to me. 

-Chris


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## donpepot (Dec 2, 2015)

I have followed the instructions here to rebuild my cartridge, greased all the parts, re assembled and my post works like new again!

However, I have noticed that the seat post automatically go up for about an inch when pressed down. I removed the cover in the junction box and watched the link cable and spring when the remote lever is pressed. The link cable does not return back to its place for about 2mm. It works perfectly fine when I loosen up the end cap at the bottom of the post. The issue comes back when I tighten the end cap.

Looks like an air flow issue can anyone advise what could be the problem here? 

BTW, I'm thinking of drilling a small hole into the bottom of the end cap (so I can tighten it up) for the air to escape rather than going through the junction box. Will this help?

TIA.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

cakelly4 said:


> OK. I think you may be reassembling wrong. First off, were you experiencing a problem and that's why you opened the cartridge? If so what was the problem?


The problem was the dropper didn't go down anymore. When opening up the dropper it became apparent that the activitation rod wouldn't be pushed down. When opening up the cartridge the oil was quite dirty and I suspect the damper was too jammed up with debry to move. I tried to clean as much as I could so that the activation rod could be depressed and the orfices in the damper opened and closed. Than put the oil in and assembled and closed it.

I suspect the inside of the damper isn't clean enough (perhaps causing too much oil to get spilled over when assembling?) and that certain parts that should slide easily (like the IFP?) are jamming too much?



> Also, did you replace the seals or just the oil?


just cleaned the seals (they didn't look too bad, but was in a hurry and with bad light) and refilled with fresh oil.

I'm now at work, I will look more thouroughly at your assembly and function explanantion later. Thanks.



> Let me know how this goes. If you're still having trouble, you can ship it to me.
> 
> -Chris


Thanks a lot so far. I live in Europe so shipping will probalby be not be a good option. The dropper internals look somewhat worn (cartrige inside looks good though). I'm just affraid they'll charge me 120 euro, when I can perhaps squeeze another two years out of the internals by giving it a good service.

Perhaps it's fair if we can make a small donation for all your work?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

donpepot said:


> I have followed the instructions here to rebuild my cartridge, greased all the parts, re assembled and my post works like new again!
> 
> However, I have noticed that the seat post automatically go up for about an inch when pressed down. I removed the cover in the junction box and watched the link cable and spring when the remote lever is pressed. The link cable does not return back to its place for about 2mm. It works perfectly fine when I loosen up the end cap at the bottom of the post. The issue comes back when I tighten the end cap.
> 
> ...


I think you just need to purge the air between the casing and cartridge. You probably missed that step.

1. Unscrew the bottom cap just 1-2 mm
2. Activate the post so that the saddle is all the way down and release the lever so the saddle stays in the down position
3. Tighten the end cap
4. Now it should work properly
5. If the cable still looks loose in the junction box, you may also need to do a cable replacement for even smoother activation.

Let me know how it goes

-Chris


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## griffsterb (May 10, 2014)

cakelly, could you perhaps comment on my Lev problems?









The problem is that the actuator piston won't push in and open the valve, which I think is the red highlight in my image.

Any idea why the valve wouldn't open?

Seems very strange. The dropper is literally brand new, no rides, so I can take it back to the LBS, but I kind of wanted to fix it myself if possible.

Thanks for everything in this thread man.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

CS645, sorry I can't help you. Not exactly sure what's going on there without seeing it. Since you can't ship it to me, another option may be to consider a new cartridge. I know Universal Cycles carries them and you may be able to find them elsewhere. Good luck and keep us updated on how things work out. 

griffsterb, that doesn't look like a LEV. Could that be an E-thirty or something that came with a new bike? That's uncharted territory for me. HOWEVER, if it's an E-thirty and it's stuck in the upright position, the solution is to hit it with a hammer to get the internals unstuck. This is not a joke. My buddies work at a Trek shop and a lot of the stock E-thirty's arrive stuck upright. KS told them to hit it with a hammer. We did it to one and it worked. Activate lever, hit seat with rubber mallet, then try activating. 

Good luck and keep me updated
-Chris


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## donpepot (Dec 2, 2015)

cakelly4 said:


> I think you just need to purge the air between the casing and cartridge. You probably missed that step.
> 
> 1. Unscrew the bottom cap just 1-2 mm
> 2. Activate the post so that the saddle is all the way down and release the lever so the saddle stays in the down position
> ...


Thanks Chris! I guess I have missed that step. Also added a bit of grease to the link cable as it seems to be rubbing the sidewall of end cap when tightened.

Great HOWTO! the post now works like a butter. Time for a ride!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice. Glad it worked out!!

-Chris


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## griffsterb (May 10, 2014)

cakelly4 said:


> griffsterb, that doesn't look like a LEV. Could that be an E-thirty or something that came with a new bike? That's uncharted territory for me. HOWEVER, if it's an E-thirty and it's stuck in the upright position, the solution is to hit it with a hammer to get the internals unstuck. This is not a joke. My buddies work at a Trek shop and a lot of the stock E-thirty's arrive stuck upright. KS told them to hit it with a hammer. We did it to one and it worked. Activate lever, hit seat with rubber mallet, then try activating.
> 
> Good luck and keep me updated
> -Chris


It is a Lev Integra, I can see it on the chassis.

I'll look into the hammer thing. The problem is that I can't even really activate it - the piston won't push into the valve stem. I can push the lever down really hard and then get it to move, but that doesn't seem right. Maybe the force of the hammer will still help though..


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Weird. I guess the way it's pictured is confusing me. Hard to tell what's going on there but doesn't sound like the same issue the E thirty has. Not sure if the hammer technique works for that. Occasionally the valve can get a little sticky and sometimes it's just a matter of depressing it several times rapidly but sounds like you're having a hard time even getting it to do that. That may be a good one for warranty since it's so new. Good luck and let me know what happens. 

-Chris


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## griffsterb (May 10, 2014)

cakelly4 said:


> Weird. I guess the way it's pictured is confusing me. Hard to tell what's going on there but doesn't sound like the same issue the E thirty has. Not sure if the hammer technique works for that. Occasionally the valve can get a little sticky and sometimes it's just a matter of depressing it several times rapidly but sounds like you're having a hard time even getting it to do that. That may be a good one for warranty since it's so new. Good luck and let me know what happens.
> 
> -Chris


Thanks man. I will let the shop take care of it.

But, in case you are curious, my picture was the same as this one you posted, only the rod that houses the piston is unscrewed and taken off:


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Ahhh. Now I get it. I've never detached it while the cartridge was still assembled. A little scary to do that actually. If it's stuck, here's a way that may free it up better:

1. Remove cartridge from post's black outer shell. 
2. With rod screwed back in place, slide the rod and piston (silver cap) inside where it resides. 
3. Hold cartridge in hands and use work bench to depress the piston several times. You can easily cycle the post this way and it may help free things up. 

I've done this in the past with success to free up a sticky piston. 

I'm a little concerned that you removed that rod. When you go to tighten it back on, the damper may start rotating before it's completely tight and there is a rubber seal in there (1.8x5.3 on my seal diagram). You may end up with it partially unthreaded as pictured in step 13b in my DIY. When it's partially unthreaded, you may end up with your valve not opening entirely when activating. 

Try the work bench method and let me know how you make out. 

-Chris


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## griffsterb (May 10, 2014)

cakelly4 said:


> Ahhh. Now I get it. I've never detached it while the cartridge was still assembled. A little scary to do that actually. If it's stuck, here's a way that may free it up better:
> 
> 1. Remove cartridge from post's black outer shell.
> 2. With rod screwed back in place, slide the rod and piston (silver cap) inside where it resides.
> ...


I decided not to mess with it anymore since I had the chance to trade it in to the shop yesterday. Have a new one on the bike now. Thanks for taking the time Chris to help out!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Good call. 

-Chris


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

cakelly4 said:


> CS645, sorry I can't help you. Not exactly sure what's going on there without seeing it. Since you can't ship it to me, another option may be to consider a new cartridge. I know Universal Cycles carries them and you may be able to find them elsewhere. Good luck and keep us updated on how things work out.
> -Chris


Thanks again. I will open it up once more see if what I can do to get it working properly.


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Looking at the photos in the original post and comparing to what KS shows in their small parts guide, I'm curious about this one O-ring that seems to sit between the wiper seal and the DU bushing. Is it inside the seal collar? When I took mine apart, I didn't find any such O-ring....

Here is the view from KS Lev small part PDF, I'm looking for the O-ring part #24 ... 31 x 1.5 .... I swear it doesn't exist!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I have never seen this o-ring either. It's a unicorn. 

-Chris


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

cakelly4 said:


> CS645, sorry I can't help you. Not exactly sure what's going on there without seeing it. Since you can't ship it to me, another option may be to consider a new cartridge. I know Universal Cycles carries them and you may be able to find them elsewhere. Good luck and keep us updated on how things work out.
> -Chris


Actually you did help. I reread your instructions (English is not my native language and I can have trouble understanding reading).

I just didn't follow your instructions properly. I read them and couldn't understand how the IFP was supposed to be pushed down since I already pushed the whole inner tube down and most of the oil out. I thought than can't be right. Than I reread them and saw that I was only supposed to reinsert the inner most tube till the gold coated part lined up with the top of the middle tube (I don't know how I could've missed that bit).

So I only reinserted the most inner tube the required amount and now it works perfectly!

Feel so stupid. But sometimes if you start loosing concentration it's better to continue another day.

Thanks a lot again. Now only have to order some small parts (lever assembly) and we're good to go!

PS perhaps it's a good idea to add the working of the post, like you put in your reply to me, to your opening post. Could be beneficial.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice! I had a feeling something was just not going together correctly. Glad to hear it worked out. Next time I edit the post, I may add the description of how it works to help clarify things as you mentioned. 

Thanks for the update. 

Chris


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## xymaro (Oct 10, 2015)

cakelly4 said:


> If I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like you may not be filling the oil properly. When you reassemble the LEV, the IFP should be almost to the top of the middle tube. When you fill the middle tube with oil, you should continue filling and allow the oil to over flow into the outer tube (on top of the IFP) all the way up to the threaded portion of the outer tube. This is to prevent any air from being in there when you screw the cap back on. As you screw the cap back on, more oil will over flow out of the outer tube.
> 
> Let me know how that goes and I'll be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
> 
> ...


Hi Chris!
Finally I solved the problem!
Now my Lev Integra works perfectly!!

Thank you!
Filippo


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. Glad it worked out!!

-Chris


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## steve86 (Mar 27, 2007)

PM sent.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Well dropper is completely assembled again and works like a charm.

Wasn't without problem though. The local distributor refused to supply some LEV small parts (Lever actuator among other stuff), they said to bring it in to get it shipped for service. Wasn't too keen on that, cause I had to whole thing apart a ready to reassemble and go on the bike. Bit puzzling why you would put a service video and a parts list online and then don't allow people to service their own post.

Anyway ordered it from another country and now works fine.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Glad to hear it worked out! Thanks for the update. 

-Chris


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## turupio (Jan 2, 2016)

Hi

I am havng problems with my KS LEV INTEGRA 2013. It looses presure and now with 200 psi it is not working properly. I don't know if it is an oil problem or if it because dirty , water....
I am from spain, do you know where can I send it to fix it?? or have you got manuals or steps to open it. The ones I have foud it are for new model. Mine is 2013 version

thanks


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I'm not sure where you could send it there. If you can send it to KS, they may upgrade you to the newer activation assembly. (They'll change the bottom part of your LEV and make it better). I haven't worked on the older version of the Integra so I'm not sure how the bottom is removed in order to get to the cartridge. I'm sure everything else is the same though. I'd be happy to fix it for you but I'm guessing shipping to me would be very expensive. Sorry I'm not much help here. 

-Chris


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## turupio (Jan 2, 2016)

thanks, I m talking to my web seller to try to use the warranty to fix it

thanks


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## Jobautista07 (Jan 8, 2016)

Subscribing. Thanks cris!!!

Sent from my ASUS_Z002 using Tapatalk


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're very welcome!

-Chris


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## Jobautista07 (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi guys! Anyone of you experienced after rebuilding a ks lev it has squeaky sound when the dropper goes up? It operates smoothly though. Btw i replaced wiper seal, du bushing and cable. It does squeak before i replace all those parts

Semper Fidelis


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Not something I typically experience. Did you smear a little slick honey inside the wiper seal and DU bushing as well as on the roller bearing? If not, that may be the answer. The only sound I hear is more of a sucking sound if I apply a little to much slick honey. 

Hope that helps. 

-Chris


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## Jobautista07 (Jan 8, 2016)

Yes applied ks paste on them. Hmmmmm even applied it below the top cap after installing it on the frame

Semper Fidelis


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## guysa (Feb 6, 2016)

Double thumbs up !!!
Great post, very comprehensive!


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## eTrex_FSR (Dec 18, 2009)

cakelly4 said:


> I'm not sure where you could send it there. If you can send it to KS, they may upgrade you to the newer activation assembly. (They'll change the bottom part of your LEV and make it better). I haven't worked on the older version of the Integra so I'm not sure how the bottom is removed in order to get to the cartridge. I'm sure everything else is the same though. I'd be happy to fix it for you but I'm guessing shipping to me would be very expensive. Sorry I'm not much help here.
> 
> -Chris


In Spain KS is presented by MSC Bikes here in Gava, close to Barcelona.

http://www.mscbikes.com/index.php?sec=parts&subsec=fam&m=KIND+SHOCK

Get in touch with them. For sure they can help you.


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## Tommybees (Dec 25, 2014)

++1 Chris - Great Post overall, nothing but positive comments for 24 pages!

Anyway, I'm on a 3 month old Integra that started to go pogo after some cold rides. Eventually I noticed oil oozing around the actuator cable housing and thought it is time for a seal change and bleed. The % compression of the seals look to be designed to be very light to reduce stiction, but then too light so that at low temps where the seals let go (SST Challenger anyone?). In fact, I did not see any wear on the rings and probably could have just bled the thing and moved on.

As I dug into the rebuild, I realized I could skip the whole actuator dis-assembly portion and jump right to the cartridge cap removal. The only tricky part is to make sure you don't scratch the inner shaft with the snap ring pliers because you have to reach a little ways down into the post to get to it. In the end you skip a lot of steps and reduce chances of damage trying to get the actuator off.
To recap, basically start at Step 7 and skip the same reassembly steps at the end. It does not save a ton of time, but since there are no seals or mechanical bits to fix within the actuator assembly, why open it up?

Hope this helps someone.


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## nachimir (Feb 25, 2014)

Chris, you are great and these instructions have been incredibly useful, thank you. I rebuilt my post, it was perfect. Being familiar with the internals meant that when the issue happened a second time, I suddenly realised the the way I was lifting the bike with the seat down had been pumping air into the oil chamber. D'oh! About to rebuild again.

I saw a few people earlier in the thread asking if the lightweight red cable they ship the non-DX posts with stretches, and the answer is yes. Mine stretched so far in the first month that I ran out of adjustment at the lever. Nothing had changed or slipped at the post end of the cable, and the lever was showing about 3 - 5mm of play that slowly retracted after each actuation. It was awful, I replaced it with normal shifter cable and it was fine.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I'm glad it helped you out. I'm hoping to make some updates to the post soon. I recently purchased a new cartridge for my LEV so that I can remove some of the previously hard to find seals from my old one. I'll be sending them to theoringstore.com so they can measure them. Once I get that information, I'll update the thread. These include the rod seal in the cartridge end cap as well as several tiny seals in the damper (I'll be making a new exploded view as well). 

-Chris


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## nachimir (Feb 25, 2014)

Looking forward to seeing it.

For anyone else in the UK looking for quad/x-ring seals, almost nowhere online sells them here, but Mayday Seals do the Q113 and Q114, and delivered quickly:
Quad Ring - Mayday Seals & Bearings LTD

I'm a little baffled by this photo of KS techs assembling dampers in an oil bath (from this feature); it appears this would fill both chambers with oil:
n/a at KS Factory Tour in Tainan, Taiwan - photo by mattwragg - Pinkbike

It has got me wondering if dropping a little oil behind the IFP might give it a bit of resilience against air moving to the wrong side of the seal.


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## nachimir (Feb 25, 2014)

(Edit: duplicate post was made without links, other got through moderation queue later).


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## cb_larsen (Mar 4, 2016)

Thanks for the OP Chris.
I have a Lev DX with a valve problem.
I've read / skimmed all the posts, and didn't find any about taking the valve assembly apart. Post #283 on page 12 ask about it, and #359 on page 15 also mentions it. But I couldn't find any answers.

My DX sinks when sitting on it, en extends on its own when not sitting. Same when testing the cartridge alone. I've performed the complete rebuild and bleed of the cartridge twice, but that hasn't fixed it.
It feels like the valve doesn't close completely, and when activating the valve with the pushrod, I can see that it doesn't close completely. I can push it to complete closure with a 3mm allen wrench from the bottom.
I unscrewed the bottom valve cover with a 4mm allen, and removed the spring. The spring is not broken, and seems intact. I pushed the valve out about 8-10 mm and felt significant resistance, like it was moving through a rubber gasket or someting, but didn't pull it out completely. I tried to clean it and lubed it with 5wt oil. Assembled it, and activated it numerous times. If feels a little better, but when assembling the cartridge, it doesn't solve the problem. 

Have anybody found a place to purchase the complete valve assembly?, or have anybody taken the valve further apart?
I could purchase a complete cartridge, but would like to avoid that.

Thanks again.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I've recently taken everything apart and have submitted the seals to get sized. Should have some info soon and plan to update my OP. For now, here's a new exploded view. There are 2 tiny o-rings on the valve and another inside the home it resides. I'll have sizing soon but you can safely take that apart and clean/lube in there.

Keep me posted

Chris


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## cb_larsen (Mar 4, 2016)

I fixed the problem and, it's now working properly and smooth.
I took the valve assembly apart, and discovered that the valve stem was bent, and that the o-ring located inside the valve housing, had left its seat and was twisted.
Relocated the o-ring, and straightened the valve stem with by fingers as good as I could (it's pretty soft actually). 
This improved the valve action a lot, but it still didn't close completely on its own. 
So I increased the spring tension by adding a spacer behind the spring, this fixed it and the valve now closes completely (I used a rubber donut made for protecting frames from cables).
I would still like to replace the valve stem with and unbent version, so I'm gonna contact KS and see if they can sell be one.
Will let you all know, when I know the outcome of that.
Thanks again for all the helpfull posts.

\Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Wow. I wonder what situation caused that to bend on you. Glad it's up and working. I'm guessing that KS will tell you that a replacement cartridge can be purchased but I doubt there is anywhere to get just the valve assembly. Keep us posted though. 

-Chris


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## saddlesniffer (Mar 9, 2016)

Do you have any ideas where I could find one of those plastic white bushing above o-ring 1.8 x 5.3mm? This is the first time that I've seen one of these all mangled, but I'm guess this is why the seatpost was acting up.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

is there any tutorial about how to service a 1st gen Integra?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

saddlesniffer said:


> Do you have any ideas where I could find one of those plastic white bushing above o-ring 1.8 x 5.3mm? This is the first time that I've seen one of these all mangled, but I'm guess this is why the seatpost was acting up.
> 
> View attachment 1055736


I've seen these pretty roughed up and they still seem to do OK after rebuild. Oring store has similar spacers but not sure they'd have that exact one. Sorry.



savo said:


> is there any tutorial about how to service a 1st gen Integra?


Best thing to do is contact KS. They usually will upgrade you to the newer activator assembly because of issues related to the 1st gen. There's a thread on it somewhere. I'm guessing they'd also replace your cartridge during the upgrade but cannot be sure. Worth looking into though.

-Chris


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## Raffe (Mar 30, 2016)

*When doing service on Lev Integra BE CAREFUL!!!*

Hi,

Thank you for the instructions! Just did a service on my Lev Integra with these instructions and it worked like a charm 
BUT BE CAREFUL: when threading back the actuator do not´t over tighten it!!! The actuator is of aluminium and really fragile. Use Locktite or similar and as soon as it tightens leave it alone otherwise this happens:

UPDATE: Got this answer from KS: That part is called "Mast End Sleeve". Be sure to hand tighten and then a quarter turn with a wrench when you put the new one on.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Hi cakelly4,

Any update on the O-rings?

Thanks.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

The oringstore.com got them all measured up for me and should be shipping them around April 4th due to a back ordered seal. Once I get them, I'll match the sizes with the appropriate locations and update the thread. Stay tuned...

Chris


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Okay, thanks! Thanks for the quick response!

I've lubed my 150mm KS Lev 3-4 times using your guide--twice after getting caught in the rain when my post would no longer slide up and down smoothly, and twice when I thought the post was getting too dry. You helped me out with my first service when I had bushing problems:

http://forums.mtbr.com/all-mountain...enance-grease-sticky-smooth-rough-925073.html

Thanks again! The post always worked liked new after lubing. In an effort to avoid the sag problems that other people report, I am very careful not to lift my bike by the seat.

Unfortunately, during the last service I decided to let the air out of the post--something I've never done before--and after I put the end cap back on(leaving 2mm of thread showing), I compressed the post and screwed on the end cap the rest of the way . Of course, with no pressure in the post things felt different, and while exploring what might be wrong I ended up pulling on the seat while my post was clamped in a bike stand. No, no, no! After I let go, the post returned to full down--like a spring.

After pumping the post up to 180 and reinstalling on my bike (I always forget to reinstall the schrader valve cover!), I noticed that when my post is fully extended I can push it down about 1/2 an inch, then it returns to full extension when I let go. Same thing happens when the post is all the way down: I can push it down 1/2 an inch (below where it normally stops, then it springs back 1/2 an inch. So, I'm guessing air got mixed in with the oil, and I need to do the full service. I'm collecting all the necessary supplies (I guess I'm going to have 10,000 extra bean bag pellets!), and I thought I'd replace all the O-rings while I'm in there.

I'd just like to add this warning for other people: *!!DO NOT PULL ON THE TOP OF THE SEAT POST WHILE YOU ARE WORKING ON IT!!*


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Oh bummer. Chances are, you'll be fine to replace the seals that are already mentioned. The quad rings are the most crucial and I've been servicing posts with no issues by simply replacing those already listed. Also, your post should not stop on its way down until the seat clamp assembly bottoms with the wiper seal/collar (or within mm of doing so) so you may have something going on there anyway. I would list the other seals now but I really want to inspect them first to confirm that they all fit and seem appropriate.

I'll keep you updated as soon as I can. 

Chris


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> Also, your post should not stop on its way down until the seat clamp assembly bottoms with the wiper seal/collar (or within mm of doing so)


Hmmm. As I remember it, the markings on the top of the post(under the clamp) look like this:


```
--------
--------
150 mm
---------
--------- <--Max compression line for me
```
With the post fully extended, I once measured from the top of the collar to that max compression line, and it was exactly 150mm of extension (but maybe I'm misremembering which line it was).

Now, when my post is in the down position:


```
--------
--------
150 mm
---------
--------- <--Max compression line for me
```
I can push down on the post and the post compresses to about here:


```
--------
--------
150 mm  <--Max compression here
---------
---------
```
When I let go the post springs back.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hmm. Yeah, I haven't serviced as many 150s as 125s and 100s. My 125 and 100 goes down until the number isn't visible but I can't remember if the 150s did the same. Will be interesting to see how it works after you service it. 

Chris


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Here's what the top of my post actually looks like:

```
______________
____150 mm____  
             ^
             |
       max compression line
```
I measured from the top of the collar to that line and it's 150mm. The bottom of the numbers do get covered up a little when the post is compressed to that line.

I'd estimate that the difference between those two lines is 5mm, as a result nothing hits the seat post collar when the post is all the way down.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Raffe said:


> UPDATE: Got this answer from KS: That part is called "Mast End Sleeve". Be sure to hand tighten and then a quarter turn with a wrench when you put the new one on.
> View attachment 1060603


and how do you remove the threaded part of the old one from the shaft?

I broke my one too...


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I have not done this but I tend to use something like this for such situations:

SpeedOut Damaged Screw Extractor & Bolt Extractor Set https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IRL3WP4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_R1WaxbVB7H7X7

Keep us posted on how this pans out.

Good luck. 
Chris


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

cakelly4 said:


> I have not done this but I tend to use something like this for such situations:
> 
> SpeedOut Damaged Screw Extractor & Bolt Extractor Set https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IRL3WP4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_R1WaxbVB7H7X7
> 
> ...


problem is that there's no room for such extractors because of the inner actuator shaft...


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Ahh. Good point. May have to release cartridge pressure and dismantle cartridge. Then remove damper from other end of shaft so that pushrod and piston assembly can be removed through other end of shaft. Then use bolt extractors. 

Chris


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## izzydog (Jan 30, 2016)

Somebody just gave me an old Supernatural and its sticking. It is still pressurized, but sticks about 1/3 of the way up. 

I plan on taking it apart and messing with it but without an obvious way to release the pressure (no external shraeder valve) how do I release the pressure?

I'm assuming that I can remove the 11mm nut on the bottom and the threaded collar without releasing the pressure, yes?

I read/saw the part of this thread that shows the small hole that you use to pressurize the chamber... do I just pop an inflator needle in there to depressurize?

Thanks


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

There's no way to release the pressure other than VERY SLOWLY unthreading the cartridge end cap. This is a little more scary than the LEV but if done slow enough, will result in slow release of air. Use caution doing this. I wear protective eyewear and point it away from my face because there's a chance of a LOUD pop and the end cap shooting off.

Removing the cartridge from the black outer case results in no pressure loss. The KS service video demonstrates how to do this here:






Good luck

-Chris


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## Kn1ght (Oct 6, 2011)

ANy one know size of x-ring (quad ring) inside cartrige end cap


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

It's actually a U-cup seal. 'Reportedly' MSUC-10x15x3 Metric Polyurethane U-Cup Seal according to measurements from theoringstore.com. Unfortunately, I have not been able to confirm their seal works due to the seal being on back order. Once I can confirm it, I plan to update the original post on this thread. 

Chris


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## scarlet (Oct 17, 2004)

I have a Lev Integra that is 2 years old and extends almost fully by the lever but then I can pull it another 4 mm up by hand. I recently had it serviced and the cartridge reset but the same thing happens and the service centre told me this is normal. My other Lev Integra which is brand new does not do this. Any ideas?


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> while exploring what might be wrong I ended up pulling on the seat while my post was clamped in a bike stand. No, no, no!... I noticed that when my post is fully extended I can push it down about 1/2 an inch, then it returns to full extension when I let go


I got fewer than 10 more hours of riding in after this happened before my post gave up the ghost. Mid-ride my post dropped half way down; I could get it to go back up, but when I weighted the saddle, the post dropped half way down again. I'll be doing a full service once a few more items arrive: dust wiper, new brass bushings, etc.


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

scarlet said:


> I have a Lev Integra that is 2 years old and extends almost fully by the lever but then I can pull it another 4 mm up by hand. I recently had it serviced and the cartridge reset but the same thing happens and the service centre told me this is normal. My other Lev Integra which is brand new does not do this. Any ideas?


Definitely not normal.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Oh boy. I'm trying to do a full service on a KS Lev 150mm. The part that I unscrewed with my snap ring pliers was almost completely unscrewed already--I think I unscrewed it about 1/2-3/4 of a turn and then it popped.

I pre-ordered all the o-rings, so I ignored the advice not to remove the IFP collar from the tube. I ordered twice as many inner quad rings--anticipating that I might destroy a few. The first two times I tried replacing the inner quad ring, the inner quad ring seated with a twist in it that I could not straighten, so I had to jab the quad ring with a pick and remove it. The third quad ring I tried resulted in the same twist again, so I gave up and I used a pick to jab the quad ring and remove the twist. 

Now I cannot slide the IFP back on the tube. I've been pushing on the inner quad ring with a small hex wrench for about an hour, trying to push it over the edge of the tube, but as far as I can tell that is completely ineffective, and my finger tips are raw from the effort. Any suggestions? I even resorted to applying some fork oil to the inner quad ring and forcibly pushing the tube agains the quad ring, but I got nowhere.


----------



## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

happyriding said:


> Now I cannot slide the IFP back on the tube. I've been pushing on the inner quad ring with a small hex wrench for about an hour, trying to push it over the edge of the tube, but as far as I can tell that is completely ineffective, and my finger tips are raw from the effort Any suggestions? I even resorted to applying some fork oil to the inner quad ring and forcibly pushing the tube agains the quad ring, but I got nowhere.


This is easy to do when you know how.

While pushing the IFP onto the rod correct/adjust the lips of the quad ring by using something like a tinker large needle.


----------



## crocus (Apr 13, 2010)

Raffe said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you for the instructions! Just did a service on my Lev Integra with these instructions and it worked like a charm
> BUT BE CAREFUL: when threading back the actuator do not´t over tighten it!!! The actuator is of aluminium and really fragile. Use Locktite or similar and as soon as it tightens leave it alone otherwise this happens:
> ...


I've broke mine too. My friend managed to fix it, he machined a new threaded part that broke off, than he made threads in mast end sleeve and put them together using strong loctite.
However in the end I found and bought a new one from here
Kind Shock Nouveau déclancheur pour LEV intégra - Accessoires tiges de selle - PureBike - Pièces, matériel et accessoires VTT, vélo de route, BMX


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Success! In my opinion, replacing the inner quad ring is not something anyone should attempt unless they know a machinist who can make a "bullet tool" to insert into the end of the tube. I thought it was really tricky to even seat the new quad ring in the groove. I practiced re-inserting my old quad ring many, many times, and I could never get it seated correctly using only my fingers. In the end, I had to jab the new quad ring with an awl to get the twist out of it.

I used an awl with a right angle tip, and I used the tip of the awl to lever the quad ring further into its groove while pushing down on that edge of the IFP. I didn't want the tip of the awl to nick the end of the tube, so I got the tip as close to the end of the tube as I dared. When I was successful, the edge of the quad ring would catch on the lip of the tube. Then I moved a few millimeters around the quad ring, and I did the same thing again while applying pressure to that edge of the IFP. As I moved around the quad ring, I never let up the pressure I was applying to the edge of the IFP, and my fingers were cramping by the end of the process. After working my way all the way around the quad ring, I was then able to apply firm pressure and slide the IFP onto the tube.

After all that poking, I seriously doubt that the new quad ring is in better shape than the old quad ring, which looked fine after I removed it.

*Edit*: When I was reassembling, I needed to push the IFP to the end of the tube it goes around. It was stuck fast. So I applied some fork oil, and then I had to push really hard to get the IFP to move--and it went flying off the end of the tube! No! I was able to repeat the procedure above, so now my new quad ring is even more beat up. If you are going to press on the IFP make sure that the end of the tube is against your work bench so that the IFP can't slide off.

Also, in the next step I could see ding marks on the end of the tube from all the prying I did on the quad ring. As result, I would again recommend that people don't try replacing the inner quad ring on the IFP unless they have a friend that has a lathe, and the friend can make them a bullet tool that fits the IFP tube.


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Help! I'm having trouble with step 12:



> Next, replace the valve assembly and the metal tube with the IFP on it. You will want the IFP approx. 2-3 mm away from the end opposite to the valve assembly end. You can assemble these and insert them as one entity. The IFP may need to be guided using your finger to keep it from slipping up further as you replace the tube it's on. You can also reinstall the cartridge end cap after this step to help push it down approximately 3 mm.


I have a 150mm post, and If I push the valve side all the way through the outer tube, then the end of the tube next to the IFP is deep inside the outer tube, so reinstalling the end cap will not push the IFP down. I don't understand how far I am supposed to push the valve side into the outer tube. Should the valve side be pushed all the way through until it is seated againt the outer tube? Or should I push in the valve side only deep enough so the IFP is against the end cap after I screw the end cap in(then remove end cap and add oil)?

Thanks.


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I'm a little confused about what you mean. 

I install the IFP on the inner tube and keep it slid to one end. Then install the schrader valve assembly on the other end. With those together, I then slide the valve end back down into the stanchion/cartridge. I use my index finger to push on the tube while simultaneously preventing the IFP from sliding off the end. I push until I feel a slight click as the valve assembly snaps into place. Typically after I do this, the IFP has slid up the inner tube some so I install the cartridge end cap on (which pushes the IFP into perfect position) and then remove the cap and continue with the next step.

Are you saying that the end cap doesn't make contact with the inner tube? I've done a lot of posts but can't recall any differences with the 150 version. 

Chris


----------



## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

@happyriding I think you try to install the inner tube with the IFP on the wrong end! It has to be on the upper most or most outward position when inserting the inner tube, so it ends being visible to you.


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Thanks for quick response!



> I then slide the valve end back down into the stanchion/cartridge. I use my index finger to push on the tube while simultaneously preventing the IFP from sliding off the end. I push until I feel a slight click as the valve assembly snaps into place.


I played around with things for awhile, and that's what I ended up doing: I pushed the schrader valve/IFP(=black plastic thingamajig) assembly into the outer tube until the schrader valve end fully seated--which meant that the end of the schrader valve was flush with the top of the outer tube.



> the IFP has slid up the inner tube some so I install the cartridge end cap on (which pushes the IFP into perfect position) and then remove the cap and continue with the next step.


That didn't work for me: when I pulled the cartridge end cap(the thing with the snap ring holes) assembly out, that pulled the schrader valve/IFP assembly back out and screwed up the position of the IFP. I tried that method 3 or 4 times and gave up. While I was doing that I followed RTM's tip (p. 15) to use my fingers to screw in the cartridge end cap, and with rubber gloves on that worked well.

What I ended up doing was: before I inserted the schrader valve/IFP assembly into the outer tube, I pushed the cartridge end cap assembly into the schrader valve/IFP assembly until it seated, which pushed the IFP into the correct position. Then I removed the cartridge end cap assembly. The nice thing about getting the IFP into position that way is that it doesn't require screwing in the cartridge end cap--so it's much easier.

Then I inserted the schrader valve/IFP assembly into the outer tube. The problem is that when the IFP passes into the outer tube, it will catch on the outer tube causing the IFP to slide towards the end of the inner tube, messing up the spacing. But, there is enough friction between the IFP and the inner tube, so that if you push lightly on the IFP as it passes into the outer tube, the IFP will stay in position. I used the smooth bend of a 90 degree pick to push on the IFP, but you can use pretty much anything.

Then it was time to pour in the oil. I followed RTMs tip (p. 15):



> Step 13: I filled the cartridge with oil about half way up the threads then rapidly tapped the side of the cartridge with a plastic stick to drive all the tiny air bubbles out of the oil. It took about 30 seconds until they stopped coming.


I didn't seen any bubbles come up when I tapped on the post. I used Maxima 5wt Fork Oil. I also followed RTM's tip (p. 15):



> Step 14b: before inserting the damper into the cartridge...I put an ounce or so of oil into a small container, submersed the actuator piston, closed and opened the piston several times and swirled it around a bit to flush out air bubbles and fill it with oil. closed the piston, placed it in the cartridge until the first ring of holes at the bottom were submersed in oil, then opened the piston and pushed it in the rest of the way. It may be overkill but I hate air bubbles.


However, I couldn't push in the cartridge end cap assembly to the first ring of holes--there was too much resistance. I had to push on the top of the rod to open the piston in order to push in the assembly any further==>Warning: oil squirted everywhere, so wrap some paper towels around the post. I had to push pretty hard on the cartridge end cap assembly, and then suddenly it broke free and slid into the oil. I had trouble getting the assembly to stop at the edge of the gold tube as described in the instructions:



> insert the damper assembly through the oil and down into the inner metal tube of the cartridge assembly just until the gold coated part is leveled with the top end of the inner tube.


I took everything apart and dumped out the oil, reassembled, added oil, and tried again, but once again the assembly slid too far in (and oil squirted everywhere again!), so I just pulled the assembly back out to get it into the position described in the instructions. I don't know if that caused air to mix in with the oil or not.

In any case, I got my post back together--but I think I had to unscrew the actuator head three times because I kept forgetting pieces! The first time I forgot to slide the seatpost clamp onto the tube before assembling everything, the second time I forgot the top collar, the third time I forgot the bottom out bumper. Sheesh!

There wasn't any sag when I pushed the post against my workbench, so we'll see how things work on my first test ride. I did notice one potential problem: my string is longer than it was before the service. I don't know how that happened. Ah, I have an idea: when I took my post apart, my cartridge end cap was unscrewed almost all the way. I guess I set up my string's length with that state of affairs when the post was new. Now that I've screwed in the cartridge end cap all the way, my string is a couple of millimeters too long. I'll have to get out my KS Lev manual and figure out how to get the string length correct.

Parts I replaced:

1) All the o-rings in the diagram on the first page of this thread
2) Dust wiper
3) Bushing
4) Three brass guides.


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

I measured my string, and as explained in the KS Lev service video, my string extends 15 mm from the edge of the black outer tube to the bottom edge of the metal barrel that clamps onto the string, so apparently my string isn't too long. 

I took my post out for a test ride, and there's no sag, but I don't get that satisfying thunk when the post hits the end of its travel--instead I get sort of soft, clicking sound. The problem with that sound is that I can't always hear it, so I don't know if the post hit the end of its travel. Other than that, my post works as new. Anyone have any ideas why most post doesn't thunk into full extension?


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

My Lev is getting a bit sticky - the movement isn't nearly as smooth as it once was and there is grime on the shaft when it is extended. I'm not sure if it's from the top collar or if it's internal. I'm going to have a good look when I get a chance but any advice in advance would be appreciated.


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Probably time for the basic service seen here: 



 I use slick honey to lubricate the glide portions (wiper seal, DU bushing, copper guide bushings, one way roller bearings).

Check the tension on your internal cable as well (unless you have the Integra). When you take the bottom cap off, the actuator arm should be bumped up nice and snug against the actuator piston. If it's loose, the activation won't be as smooth and you should replace it as demonstrated on the video.

Good luck and let me know if you need any help.

-Chris


----------



## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

cakelly4 said:


> Probably time for the basic service seen here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the help.....I'll hopefully get time to try that tomorrow. I'll post results when I'm done.


----------



## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

I just did the maintenance as in the video and the LEV is back to smooth flawless operation. That's a lot less involved than when it gets mushy and you need to open up the cartridge. 

Thanks.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yes, much less work and a good idea to do fairly often to prevent problems. I also use this time to inspect my cartridge end cap and tighten it if needed (they tend to back out slowly which can lead to failure). 

Glad things worked well. Thanks for the update. 

Chris


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

cakelly4 said:


> Yes, much less work and a good idea to do fairly often to prevent problems. I also use this time to inspect my cartridge end cap and tighten it if needed (they tend to back out slowly which can lead to failure).
> 
> Glad things worked well. Thanks for the update.
> 
> Chris


Thanks. It might be time to order some parts for it so that I can replace things if needed next time I open it up. It would be good to have the actuator cable, pins, seals on hand as it's not that motivating opening it up while wondering if you'll have the parts required to really get it back to great operating order.


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Agreed. I keep several parts on hand but DU bushings are by far the most common part needed when I'm repairing LEVs. Keep that in mind. 

Chris


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## Silverback71 (Apr 14, 2012)

*Actuator removal*

Hi All,

KS Lev service issue

Any advice will be appreciated, I can not get the actuator off the bottom of the inner piston. I have tried all the approaches as detailed in the early parts of this thread.

Tonight I had another crack and this time the inner piston unscrewed from the other end and it dropped all the internal oil. Still this presented an opportunity to grab the inner piston in the vice and the mofo will still not come off. It just turns the piston and I dare not clamp the vice any harder, it was hard on already. I have given a spray with the evil wd40 too, cringe.

So no issue with the procedure and rebuild but im foooked if I can get it off.

Cheers Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Silverback71 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> KS Lev service issue
> 
> ...


Sorry you're having a difficult time with it. It's sometimes very difficult to get that actuator off for the first time.

What has worked for me on every one has been the vice method. I use aluminum soft jaws which have a nice v-groove for the tube to reside. First, I wipe down the tube with alcohol. Then I use a piece of inner tube (also cleaned with alcohol) wrapped partway around the tube (single layer) before clamping it in the soft jaws. I VERY SLOWLY close the vice tighter and tighter while attempting to gently rotate the actuator by hand until I see that the tube is not wiggling much. Then, using an adjustable wrench, I make a QUICK 1/4 turn counter clockwise to try to break the seal. If the tube rotated, I tighten just a LITTLE more and try again. I continue this until it breaks free. I've done them enough now where I typically get it the first try but I'm very familiar with how tight I need to clamp at this point. I've also heard of people heating the end first with a hairdryer or heat gun to soften the loctite but I've not had luck with this (tried it once and got scared - went to current method and worked like a charm).

Good luck and keep me posted.

Chris


----------



## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

What's the difference between the Lev cartridge and the Lev DX cartridge? Both are available at Universal Cycles. Also they are available in black or brass.....I assume that's just a color preference and there is no functional difference.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

The DX has the cradle for the saddle clamps built in (part of the stanchion). The standard LEV has the small ball bearings on top to allow use of the adjustable top cradle. I personally think the DX is nice (less hassle when reassembling if the parts are a little bent). Then again, adjustability can be nice sometimes (though if it's already apart, you can adjust it by rotating the entire cartridge). 

Hope that helps. 

Chris


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

I crashed yesterday with my 150mm KS Lev all the way down. Dirt was ground into the skid guard on the right rear of the saddle. After dusting myself off and assessing my various contusions, I finished the rest of the ride with the post down. Today, I started my ride and the saddle seemed low. I looked things over, and uh oh my saddle was sagging 1-2cm. After raising and lowering the post several times with my hand, the sag remained. So I adjusted my post upwards to compensate for the sag, and I went on my ride. After my ride, I checked the saddle again: this time no sag. I lowered and raised my saddle and bounced on it--no sag. I got off my bike and checked things out by hand: no sag.

Does anyone have any experience with crash induced sag? I'm wondering if I'll need to service my post soon.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Maybe you yanked the cable housing on the crash and messed things up in the junction box a little, then they worked themselves free after a few cycles. This is just a thought though. Not sure. 

-Chris


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Hi cakelly4,

Thanks for the response.

I remove my post after every ride, so before my ride the next day, I inserted my post and hooked up the cable as normal, so I don't think the junction box was the problem.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> I make a QUICK 1/4 turn counter clockwise to try to break the seal


I had a lot of trouble removing the actuator head the first time I serviced my post as well. I didn't have a vice, so I used my hand while wearing a rubber glove. The key for me was jerking the wrench sharply to unscrew. There was a KS Lev service video I was following, and after watching it many times, I finally noticed that the KS tech jerked the wrench to break the actuator head free when he began to unscrew the actuator head.

When I reassemble, I tighten the actuator head by hand, so that it won't be so difficult to remove next time.


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## rox (Aug 30, 2008)

thanks for all the excellent info in this thread but there seems to be one tiny thing missing. does anyone know what size the quad ring is on the inside of the lower end cap? Im referring to the first part that is removed with the snap ring pliers. theres an internal quad ring that seals the small diameter shaft that extends out the bottom.

oh and since Im here and posting a question already how about the 2 tiny o-rings that form the actual valve? i think the 4 quad rings (109, 113, 114, and ?) along with those 2 little orings are the only seals that actually move and thus the most important to service.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hey Rox,

The seal inside the end cap is actually a u-cup seal. And yes, there are 2 tiny seals in the valve as well as a slightly larger one (the needle with 2 tiny o-rings passes through it). I've been using them in my own cartridge to be sure they work well before updating this thread. I'm hoping to do so soon.

U-cup seal:

Part no. MUU-10X15X3

MUU-10X15X3 Urethane Metric U-Seal [MUU-10X15X3] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

Tiny o-rings (you need 2):

Part no. N1.00X002

1mm X 2mm Metric Buna-N 70 O-ring [N1.00X002] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

Inside valve:

Part no. B90007

007 N90 Buna-N Nitrile O-ring Duro 90 [B90007] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

Hope this helps.

Chris


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Well, I had the 1-2cm sag again the next day, and because it wasn't long before my post completely failed after it began sagging the previous time, I decided to do a full service on my post. I'm on the road, so I performed the service using the tailgate of my truck as a workbench. In the blazing hot sun. With some intermittent wind. And I had some trouble.

After adding new oil, I followed step 14b and I inserted the damper assembly down into the oil, and I tightened the cap (the thing with all the holes that you use the snap ring pliers on) with my hand about half way down, and then I used the snap ring pliers the rest of the way. The cap got tight with about 1 thread showing, so that's as far as I went. By that point, all the parts were so hot from the sun, I had to handle them with a cloth.

At some point, I discovered that I could not depress the actuator piston: it was stuck. So, I unassembled all the way again, dumped out the oil, and I began anew. I discovered that when I pushed the damper assembly into the oil,


> until the gold coated part is leveled[sic] with the top end of the inner tube


 then the threads on the cap wouldn't reach. So, I pushed the damper assembly in a little further, and then the threads on the cap engaged. While screwing the cap on with my hand, somehow I kept depressing the damper assembly until it was inserted all the way in. I used the snap ring pliers to tighten the cap the last little bit, and this time there was no resistance, and the cap screwed all the way in such that no threads were showing. I wasn't sure if I should start over due to the fact that the damper assembly was pushed all the way in. I did know one thing: DON'T TRY TO PULL IT BACK OUT!

I thought I would try airing up the post to see if the damper assembly would extend back out. I put about 50 lbs in, and I depressed the actuator piston--nothing. I carefully reread the instructions for step 15 again, after which I pumped up the post some more to 100 lbs. I depressed the actuator piston again, and this time the damper extended back out. Hurray!

I finished pumping up the post to 180 lbs, and I tested the sag--no sag. Hurray! I finished reassembling, and everything is now working perfectly. As an added bonus, I once again have that solid thunk! when I extend my post. After my last full service, I could only hear a soft click when my post reached full extension, which was hard to hear while riding.

My bushing separated when I unassembled my post even though the bushing was fairly new, so I had to use a new bushing. I decided I won't ever service my post unless I have a spare bushing on hand.


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## rox (Aug 30, 2008)

awesome! thanks



cakelly4 said:


> Hey Rox,
> 
> The seal inside the end cap is actually a u-cup seal. And yes, there are 2 tiny seals in the valve as well as a slightly larger one (the needle with 2 tiny o-rings passes through it). I've been using them in my own cartridge to be sure they work well before updating this thread. I'm hoping to do so soon.
> 
> ...


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

To make it easier, I continually depress the piston several times as I tighten the end cap. So basically, tighten it a few threads, depress piston, tighten a few threads, depress, etc. As you're tightening it down, it can create an oil lock which makes it hard to tighten and to depress the piston. So if you keep depressing it as you thread (without pushing the rod in), you prevent the oil lock situation. 

*EDIT* Also, I now have a different technique when inserting the damper into the oil. Instead of inserting it to the gold coating, then sliding the cap down, I now slide the cap down until it stops above the damper, THEN I insert the damper into the oil. I use my right hand to keep the piston depressed (WITHOUT PUSHING ON THE ROD) and I use my left hand to push the damper into the oil by pushing the cap into the threads. This prevents you from pushing the damper in too far. 

Chris


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> As you're tightening it down, it can create an oil lock which makes it hard to tighten and to depress the piston.


Thanks for the tip.



> Also, I now have a different technique when inserting the damper into the oil.


Nice. Thanks for keeping the torch lit for this thread.

I've been chasing a creak on my bike for the last 6 months, and after replacing the entire drive train today, my bike has now achieved that special state of nirvana (which never lasts long), where everything is working well, and quietly. And my post thunks! at full extension.

I rode by a big moose and her calf yesterday in a high alpine meadow. Just me and the meese.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. I hope you're referencing Brian Regan when you say meese. Sounds like an awesome ride. Mine was riddled with creaks yesterday so nirvana status has expired.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

It only lasted for one day! 

The next day, I endeavored to repeat my experience, but in the parking lot I noticed my shifting was off. I adjusted the cable, but when the cable was tight enough to shift up well, then downshifts were jangle-ly, and vice versa. Usually, when I have trouble shifting, it's due to a bent derailleur hanger. My bike fell of my bike rack while I was getting geared up, so I figured I bent the rear derailleur hanger. So, I spent 45 minutes rolling around in the dirt replacing that. Didn't help. After wasting an hour, I settled for the best I could get it, and off I went on my (shorter) ride. At my halfway point, I took one more pedal, and bam! my rear derailleur cable snapped. For some reason, I tend to snap rear derailleur cables fairly often (with multiple rear derailleurs). Note to self: when the thumb shifter feels stiff, replace rear derailleur cable.

As a result, I was stuck in my highest gear, so I had to walk the uphills on the way back.  My post worked well, though!


----------



## chukt (Oct 17, 2009)

*Use a socket*



cakelly4 said:


> **DON'T REMOVE THIS IF YOU CAN HELP IT - YOU CAN SEE THE INNER SEAL HERE THAT I DAMAGED TRYING TO GET THIS THING BACK ON THE METAL TUBE**(If it slides off [or you're replacing the seal] and it's difficult to get back on use this tip from HappyMTB.fr: "I manage to get it back on without damage by pressing it gently against the tube and using a tool (an owl or a small screwdriver should do) to push the gasket around. Apply a little more downward pressure on the IFP where you start pushing on the gasket so that the gasket starts to slide on the tube and then work your way around&#8230;be careful not to damage the surface treatment of the tube with the tool.")


I was struggling to get the Internal Piston over the Metal Tube. I tried the method above to frustration. :madman:

A Craftsman 10mm socket is the same diameter as the tube and has rounded edges.

It is super easy to compress the inner seal of the piston by sliding the socket into it. Then butting the tube and socket...transfer the piston back to the tube.

This was much easier and less risk of seal damage.

Thanks for a great thread!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Great tip. Thanks for sharing!

Chris


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

Im sick and tired of trying and failing to repressurize the 27.2 Lev with the wonky needle system. I've run through so many hypodermic needles that my local drugstore is giving me weird looks when I order a bunch every week.

I read somewhere, I dont remember where, that the new version 27.2 KS Levs already have a schrader valve. Is this true.

Im thinking of ordering the damper assembly from Universal 
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=71938

According to them, this already has the schrader valve.

The burning question in my mind is, has anyone tried to retrofit this damper assembly onto an older KS lev 27.2? It looks like it will slide right in, but to be sure....


----------



## LucasARG (Dec 29, 2010)

I can't find the F#*ing hole to repressurize my 272...
















Any help?


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

**** is tiny. and it may be covered in some waxy seal. try cleaning off the area with a brush or pick, and it may show itself.


----------



## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

Well, apparently I was hoping for something that didnt exist. According to KS, there are no 27.2 lev air cans that have the schrader valve. 

Hello Jorge,

I'm sorry to tell you that we do not make any 27.2 models with a schrader valve. It has been impossible to include a valve with the limited amount of space in the cartridge. Universalcycles is mistaken.

Thank You

Chris Han
KS USA
26741 Portola Pkwy 1E658
Foothill Ranch CA 92610
(949) 742-1180 x103
KS Suspension



cobym2 said:


> Im sick and tired of trying and failing to repressurize the 27.2 Lev with the wonky needle system. I've run through so many hypodermic needles that my local drugstore is giving me weird looks when I order a bunch every week.
> 
> I read somewhere, I dont remember where, that the new version 27.2 KS Levs already have a schrader valve. Is this true.
> 
> ...


----------



## chukt (Oct 17, 2009)

*Remove Actuator Arm for Cable Reinstall*

At 8:25 in the KS Lev Service Video the tech simply rotates the Cable End and fits it to the Actuator Arm.

I always struggle w/ this step and have sheared the kevlar cable twice.

The Actuator Arm pivot bolt is easy to remove. Then it is easy to place the Cable End into it and reassemble.


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

OK. I've finally updated the original post with the updated seal specs which now include ALL of the seals in the cartridge. I also made a few small edits and added chukt's tip about using the 10 mm socket (again, great tip and thanks).

Sorry it took so long. Thanks for all of your posts!

Chris


----------



## LucasARG (Dec 29, 2010)

cobym2 said:


> **** is tiny. and it may be covered in some waxy seal. try cleaning off the area with a brush or pick, and it may show itself.


Thanks for your help.

I'd also asked the guys at Southcoast Suspension (UK) and they told me that actually there are two kind of 27.2 posts










Mine it's apparently unserviceable  Compare your picture of the "silver cap" with the one I posted earlier and you will notice that they are different


----------



## wreckingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

Hey Chris,

I wanted to run something by you on my KS Lev. I have replaced all the seals and this is like my third time rebuilding it, so I'm pretty sure I've got the process down correctly. The issue I am having is that after about a month, maybe two, the post just looses an inch of travel. I can pull it up to its full height but there is no resistance or catch and it just goes back down.

Now, after my last rebuild with all new seals it was functioning properly. This appears to be a slowly occurring over time kind of thing. I just wanted to get your take before I rebuild it again.

Thanks,

Rob

UPDATE: Googled "ks lev sag". Yeah, kind of have my answer. Unit is like 3 years old, but well taken care of. Thinking its part of Lev ownership at this point. Also thinking replacement.


----------



## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

wreckingrob said:


> Hey Chris,
> 
> I wanted to run something by you on my KS Lev. I have replaced all the seals and this is like my third time rebuilding it, so I'm pretty sure I've got the process down correctly. The issue I am having is that after about a month, maybe two, the post just looses an inch of travel. I can pull it up to its full height but there is no resistance or catch and it just goes back down.
> 
> ...


That is sort of the "crux" of this entire post and maybe a yearly maintenance issue for some of us which personally, I find no bother considering it no different than maintenance on a fork or shock.

Are you experiencing the issue immediately after a rebuild? I think an exacerbating but commonly done practice is picking up our bikes by the seat causing the post to extend and placing a great deal of suction on the hydraulic fluid inducing air bubbles. Think of the old process we used to have to do with brake fluid in the syringe for Avid brakes to get as much air out as possible. Also, after filling the inner shaft, make sure you replacing the IFP exactly as Chris explains it. Pushing it too far in initially will induce air space into the system and put you right back to where you started before the rebuild. Just some possibilities to consider.


----------



## wreckingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

Oh My Sack! said:


> That is sort of the "crux" of this entire post and maybe a yearly maintenance issue for some of us which personally, I find no bother considering it no different than maintenance on a fork or shock.
> 
> Are you experiencing the issue immediately after a rebuild? I think an exacerbating but commonly done practice is picking up our bikes by the seat causing the post to extend and placing a great deal of suction on the hydraulic fluid inducing air bubbles. Think of the old process we used to have to do with brake fluid in the syringe for Avid brakes to get as much air out as possible. Also, after filling the inner shaft, make sure you replacing the IFP exactly as Chris explains it. Pushing it too far in initially will induce air space into the system and put you right back to where you started before the rebuild. Just some possibilities to consider.


Hey Sack, thanks for the reply.

No, not right after. Takes about a 2 months I'd say. Initially, I'm great and thinking Levs are the best. Eventually I realize I'm riding kind of low and make the connection.

However, your suggestion about the IFP has me wondering - I may replace that since I have replaced all the other seals and still have the issue...


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I've definitely run into 2 posts recently that don't seem to "hold" the repair for long after the procedure like most have for me. My wife's LEV lasts at least 6 months with pretty heavy use which I feel is reasonable as Sack mentioned given the fact that it's essentially like suspension. Recently, I purchased a black cartridge for my LEV which seems a little more problematic - going about 1-2 months before needing the procedure and seems to fail shortly after a wet ride. My friend's new LEV has been going a similar amount of time. I can't explain this at all yet but have been playing with different techniques to see if it's something I'm doing inconsistently. I've not had any complaints from people who have mailed me their posts and hope they'd let me know if they were.

Also, check my updated thread on the seal specs. If you were using the old one, I was missing 4 seals (3 in the damper and 1 u-cup seal in the cartridge cap). If you haven't replaced those yet, that may be your answer. And definitely replace the IFP seals if you have not (those are the most important and I couldn't tell if you were saying you didn't do that yet).

My other theory is that we should be rebuilding these things while fully submerged in an oil bath (like pictured in a PinkBike tour of the KS facility). I've toyed with this idea if I could find a long, narrow tray to do it in rather than a huge, wasteful tub. 

Those are my thoughts but I'm open to any suggestions that others may have. 

Chris


----------



## wreckingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

Hey Chris,

Yes, I was using the old o-ring graphic. Looks like I missed:
B70009
N1.00X002 (X2)
What's the u-cup seal? MUU-10X15X3?

Yes, I definitely replaced the square rings on the IFP. Should I replace the IFP or no? Thinking no since I can't find the thing on the interwebs...

Does the wife not have some tupperware that would do? I'll help donate oil if need be. I'm in Raleigh so I can hand deliver.

Thanks Chris.


----------



## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

My LEV Ti started to get just a bit of sag in it. The top maybe 6mm is soft before it stops moving. Thinking I will purchase a replacement cartridge and then rebuild this one before. Now since I've got some time before I can ride I'm thinking I might rebuild it.

Is there a link to the full seal count I need for this or just dig through the thread? Is there a know seal for this type of failure I should be looking at? Post is over 2 years old and besides for slider service has never been touched.


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

wreckingrob said:


> Hey Chris,
> 
> Yes, I was using the old o-ring graphic. Looks like I missed:
> B70009
> ...


Haha. She's not a Tupperware type of wife. In fact, she spent her evening repairing her own bike (so proud). I will probably try the oil bath technique the next time mine or my buddy's post fails (if it's short lived). We could certainly experiment with your LEV one day too if you'd like. Yes, the 'MUU' seal is the u-cup. That one tends to be on back order often. No, I wouldn't bother replacing the IFP and I doubt you'll ever find a replacement anyway.



dirtrider76 said:


> My LEV Ti started to get just a bit of sag in it. The top maybe 6mm is soft before it stops moving. Thinking I will purchase a replacement cartridge and then rebuild this one before. Now since I've got some time before I can ride I'm thinking I might rebuild it.
> 
> Is there a link to the full seal count I need for this or just dig through the thread? Is there a know seal for this type of failure I should be looking at? Post is over 2 years old and besides for slider service has never been touched.


I updated the OP with all of the seal specs with links for each. The seals are also labeled by part number so you could write them all down, then search the Oring Store by part number. That's likely the fastest way to do it. Also, sometimes minimal sag like that could be as simple as checking your post end cap and/or cartridge end cap to be sure they haven't started to back out. This is simple to check and another of my buddy's LEVs just did the same thing.

1. Remove post from bike and place in soft jaws of vice. 
2. Check black end cap. If loose, tighten it and see if the slight sag went away. If not, proceed to step 3. 
3. Remove black end cap
4. Press actuator lever and disconnect internal cable barrel from lever, then tape to side of post
5. Push on saddle to expose long, thin stanchion. Do this until saddle stops (all the way down)
6. Visualize the cartridge end cap (the thing with all the holes in it). You may be able to tell if it's backed out far enough but a slight amount may not be clear to see
7. Use Park Tools SPA-2 (spanner) or decent snap ring pliars to turn the cartridge end cap clockwise. If it turns, it was loose. Continue turning until it stops and snug it down somewhat firmly. 
8. Reassemble post (don't forget to purge air between cartridge and black casing as demonstrated in the KS service video).

Let me know how that goes if you try it. It may not be the answer but always worth checking before you go dismantling the cartridge.

Good luck
Chris


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

It's also worth noting that KS claims to charge the LEVs with Nitrogen rather than air since it's more stable - though once you adjust the psi with a shock pump, that seems a moot point. Maybe that matters more for the Supernatural which is not technically designed to add air to. Again, just spitballing here. Here's the link to that PinkBike article:

The Making of a KS Lev Seatpost - Pinkbike

Keep in mind that it appears most of the photos are from Supernatural production based on the internals which would explain the stage at which they're submerging the post in oil (i.e. Before the inner tube and IFP are in place) - this makes sense since the air and oil chambers are reversed on the SN vs the LEV.

Chris


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Thanks Cakelly, I actually had the bottom black cap come loose once before. This does not feel like that, I guess I'll pull it out and check to bottom cap out. I'm off the bike for a bit so I might as well do something!


----------



## wreckingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

Chris, do you have a couple N1.00X002 handy? I ordered N1.00X002.7 by mistake.


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

PM sent


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

Ok, so admittedly I haven't gone through all of MTBR (though sometimes it may seem like it), but this had got to be in the top 10 or top 5 most useful threads in the history of this site. The clarity of the instructions, updating with tricks (like the socket to get the IFP back on), and the links to buy all of the o-rings just puts it over the top. Thanks so much for putting it together.

I was able to rebuild my sagging post, but buggered up the internal quad ring whilst reinstalling the IFP the first time. Mistake #1 was not using a dowel to push out the inner tube and dislodging the IFP in the first place. Mistake #2 was not following the suggested instructions and reinstalling the IFP with a mallet which tore off portions of the IFP. Amazingly, it still (mostly) worked. I did get a bit of sag, which I lived with for a couple of weeks. 

In retrospect I'm not sure the sag stemmed from the damaged quad ring. If it did, I would've expected the sag to get worse over time, which it didn't. I think it could've arisen from having the IFP pushed down a bit too far when I reassembled the cartridge.

The other weird thing is that I had a weird "2-stage" sag. There were a few mm off the top, which wasn't all that bad, but then there was about another cm that would activate if I stayed seated over a bump or even just pulled myself into the saddle further. I've not read about that anywhere, though I didn't read all 14 pages of this thread.

Last weekend I decided enough was enough and I'd rebuild again. Of course, this time, the damaged quad ring was too much and I couldn't get it to seal, so I ordered some new o-rings. They're cheap enough that I just got some for everything. Though I can't see how that company stays in business bagging an exact number of o-rings that someone had to count by hand but only cost $0.04 a piece ... but I digress.

I was out of 5wt, so I used 15wt. Don't know if the higher viscosity gave me any additional margin for error with the rebuild, but somewhere between that, the new inner and outer quad rings on the IFP (didn't want to fix what ain't broke with the rest), and more careful positioning of the IFP toward the top of the inner tube, I was able to rebuild with zero sag. With the 15wt, I can't say the post is particularly slow except it doesn't clunk at the top out. Personally, I prefer the clunk, so at some point I'll rebuild with 5wt, but I'll probably not tempt fate for now and leave well-enough alone.

Thanks again for the help!


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I'm glad the thread helped you and thanks for the compliments. Let me know if you run into any other issues along the way. 

Chris


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

cakelly4 said:


> I updated the OP with all of the seal specs with links for each. The seals are also labeled by part number so you could write them all down, then search the Oring Store by part number. That's likely the fastest way to do it. Also, sometimes minimal sag like that could be as simple as checking your post end cap and/or cartridge end cap to be sure they haven't started to back out. This is simple to check and another of my buddy's LEVs just did the same thing.
> 
> 1. Remove post from bike and place in soft jaws of vice.
> 2. Check black end cap. If loose, tighten it and see if the slight sag went away. If not, proceed to step 3.
> ...


I was able to tighten the spanner end cap 1-1.5 turns and that took a good bit of the sag out. It has a tiny bit of sag but nothing horrible.

Now I just have to fix my eTen:thumbsup:


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice. With it that backed out, you may have lost some oil and it could begin to get worse over time. If it does, the full service will likely be needed. Thanks for the update. 

Chris


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

There was actually maybe 2 drops of oil in the end cap when I removed it. I'm expecting it came from the cap o-ring leaking a bit with it loose. I'll rebuild it over winter unless it gets worst.


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## beach_boy (Jun 16, 2011)

Hey guys, I'm having some issues with my rebuild of my LEV. I can't screw the cap down onto the cartridge. I have successfully rebuilt it a few times but for some reason I can't do it today.

Once I insert the actuator piston into the oil, and press it down so the shaft is abut level with the inner metal tube, I get the cap so it's sitting on top of the cartridge and then it just spins. If I try to drop the piston lower I still can't get the cap to drop that 1/16" that it needs to, to screw on. I can screw it on no problem if I only fill part way with oil but then it doesn't work.

Any tips or ideas?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Try having someone depress the puston (to activate the damper) while you thread it on. Or try doing this yourself (it's a little tricky). Let me know how that goes. 

Chris


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## beach_boy (Jun 16, 2011)

cakelly4 said:


> Try having someone depress the puston (to activate the damper) while you thread it on. Or try doing this yourself (it's a little tricky). Let me know how that goes.
> 
> Chris


Thanks for the tip Chris. With help I closed the cap... But then couldn't get it to drop. Any ideas? The few times I have rebuilt it I haven't experienced any of these issues before. Makes me think something more serious than oil volume is wrong.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

At this point, I think I would completely disassemble again and start over carefully with the reassembly tutorial. I'm guilty of it myself on things I can do with my eyes closed. Something's out of sync in the process.


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## beach_boy (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks for the advice guys. For some reason I didn't think I needed to touch the IFP part since I haven't before. Turns out it was bottomed out and all I needed to do was move it back up to the top. Post went together as previously expected without any issues whatsoever. Didn't need an extra hand or anything. All is good for now. Thanks again.


----------



## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. I just caught up on this thread and was going to recommend a start-over as well. Sack beat me to it. Glad everything went well. 

Chris


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## wayodh (Nov 13, 2004)

chukt said:


> I was struggling to get the Internal Piston over the Metal Tube. I tried the method above to frustration. :madman:
> 
> A Craftsman 10mm socket is the same diameter as the tube and has rounded edges.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post! I'm writing from Peru and here there is nobody that can give a proper service to this seat post. I just did it following these steps and it's my second post I go all the way. The first one was a reverb stealth a2 and in both cases I did it right.

I have found another technique to put that IFP into the metal tube. Not everybody has a craftsman 10mm socket at home. I was looking everywhere for a piece that can help me put this IFP and I found that a duracell aa battery does a great job here!

Cheers, have fun and whenever you want to ride in Peru let me know!


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## was8v (Apr 27, 2005)

Do you think the procedure for a KS CRUXI will be the same as for the Supernatural (but disassembly as per integra?)

The Cruxi has no Schrader valve like the supernatural and has actuation on the bottom like the integra.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I honestly doubt that it has the little hole to recharge it. I dismantled an e30i that a friend purchased to see if I could make it operate faster and when I got to the cartridge I took one look and said "nope" then put it back together. That being said, I never even heard of the Cruxi until you mentioned it so I'm not sure. Let us know if you attempt. 

Chris


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## was8v (Apr 27, 2005)

Ah seems like the e10 and the cruxi use a different cartridge system to the lev and supernatural. The lev and supernatural upper post is the exterior of the cartridge, whereas on the e10 and cruxi its a totally separate component inside.

See exploded views: Tech Info | KS Suspension

I've just got the cruxi, so no need to disassemble yet. Would be interested if anyone does.


----------



## salvo44 (Oct 20, 2016)

Hello,

Thank you very much for this guide. It was very useful, I finally didn't need to bring my dropper to service. I just do it regularly by myself. 

BTW, looking at the new RS reverb IFP, do you thing we can replace the Ks lev IFP with a couple of urethane U-seals?

Salvo


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. I'm not sure if a u-seal would work INSTEAD of the IFP if that's what you mean. I have seen the RS article on PinkBike referring to the new IFP and I do think KS should do the same thing with their IFP. It makes a ton of sense regarding the cause of failure. Im actually curious if the RS IFP would fit in the LEV. I suspect it might. Maybe someone can get there hands on one and try it out. 

Chris


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## salvo44 (Oct 20, 2016)

"Before, the IFP was an alloy piston (bottom) using an o-ring with Delrin backup rings to separate the oil from the air. The new one (top, blue piece) is a dual acting, double U-cup rubber seal that replaces all of that and is specifically designed to take the pressure from both sides by further separating the two different mediums. From a riding standpoint, it means air is less likely to sneak into the space where the oil should be, so your post is going to more reliably stay firm..."

It would be very interesting to try the RS IFP on the LEV, the other possibility is to put a u-cup seal behind (air side) the standard LEV IFP. I may try it next service


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yeah, the PinkBike article showed a picture of the new RS IFP. It doesn't look like a standard u-cup seal at all, but it would be interesting to try what you're saying. 


Chris


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## salvo44 (Oct 20, 2016)

cakelly4 said:


> Yeah, the PinkBike article showed a picture of the new RS IFP. It doesn't look like a standard u-cup seal at all, but it would be interesting to try what you're saying.
> 
> Chris


From what I see from some technical draw found on Google, the new RS IFP looks compatible with the Lev. It is only 10$ on eBay, but I, from Italy, should pay another 38$$ as shipping cost.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Cannot find that on eBay. Can you share the link? May be worth testing out. 

Thanks,
Chris


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## salvo44 (Oct 20, 2016)

cakelly4 said:


> Cannot find that on eBay. Can you share the link? May be worth testing out.
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris


http://m.ebay.com/itm/Rockshox-Pre-...ing-Piston-A1-and-A2-/191980697139?nav=SEARCH

Here we are


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## jcc383 (Jul 3, 2007)

crocus said:


> I've broke mine too. My friend managed to fix it, he machined a new threaded part that broke off, than he made threads in mast end sleeve and put them together using strong loctite.
> However in the end I found and bought a new one from here
> Kind Shock Nouveau déclancheur pour LEV intégra - Accessoires tiges de selle - PureBike - Pièces, matériel et accessoires VTT, vélo de route, BMX


I had this same issue. It seems that the actuator assembly had loctite on the threads from the factory, and just applying enough torque to unthread and remove it caused the aluminum to fatigue. I was able to break it off when tightening it by hand while rebuilding. I removed the broken threaded piece by using a fine knife to unthread it from the outside over the actuator piston.

Searched everywhere for a replacement, and they are out of stock at both BTI and QBP. I have to give Chris @ KS mad props for sending me one from their supply at KS USA. That's good CS. I do think they should be more readily available, but supposedly there will be another shipment some time in the future.


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## JoniBoni (Jul 17, 2013)

I'm currently rebuilding a KS Supernatural i7 (the one with the piggy back as seen on page 8) or at least I'm trying to. I'm starting to feel somewhat stupid as I'm already failing at point that isn't worth mentioning to others here.

The i7 ist somewhat reverted in design so the inner shaft is fastend with a blue nut an some red threaded thingy at the bottom (Jack Stephen doenst even show or mention these parts). I guess this is the "counterpart" to the actuator assembly on a lev. Point is I'm failing to get enough of a grip on the inner shaft to loosen the blue nut (the exposed part is pretty short). I'm already thinking of the wheelgun in the garage but I'm afraid of breaking the whole seatpost.

Also I tried to open the piggy back, but instead of turning the cap I'm twisting the whole "barrel".

Any suggestions? I guess pictures would help. I could take those once I'm back home.

If my writing is basicly gibberish to you, pease ask. English isn't my first language...


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hello all,

Someone informed me that my photos are all currently down on the original post today. I looked into it and it appears that Photobucket.com is currently down for service and should be back up soon. All of my photos are linked from there so hopefully they'll be back up when the site is up and running again. Sorry for the inconvenience. 

Also, I recently experimented with the IFP from the Reverb that Salvo44 linked above and so far it's working well. I tried it in a friend's LEV that seems to fail often. The Reverb IFP fits well though there was a bit of stiction with the first several activations. This seemed to resolve after cycling the post quickly a few times. I'll give an update again later after he's had some miles of use. 

Thanks,
Chris


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## salvo44 (Oct 20, 2016)

cakelly4 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Someone informed me that my photos are all currently down on the original post today. I looked into it and it appears that Photobucket.com is currently down for service and should be back up soon. All of my photos are linked from there so hopefully they'll be back up when the site is up and running again. Sorry for the inconvenience.
> 
> ...


Very good, thanks for the update.


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## JoniBoni (Jul 17, 2013)

really, nobody?


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## alexdesignz (Aug 2, 2015)

So i rebuilt my KS Lev cartridge and it works great day one. Thank you!!!

I had a question. My o-ring snapped from my cap, and i do not want to pay $3 plus $6 shipping. Do you know the size as I would rather buy 10 for a $1 at the O-ring Store.I tried measuring it and I think it is OD 20mm and ID 19mm but i can't find which to order.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Glad to hear your LEV is up and running!

ID 18 mm
OD 19 mm

This is what I've been using. I tried slightly bigger and it didn't stay on well. 

Chris


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## alexdesignz (Aug 2, 2015)

cakelly4 said:


> Glad to hear your LEV is up and running!
> 
> ID 18 mm
> OD 19 mm
> ...


Do you have a link to it on O-Ring Store as I cant find it... Thank You


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

1mm X 18mm Metric Buna-N 70 O-ring [N1.00X018] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

1x18 read as 18 mm ID with 1 mm thickness or cross section


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## alexdesignz (Aug 2, 2015)

Thanks Chris...
So the dropper worked great on my ride, except today it only goes up half way. I hear a seal leaking air. Pull it apart and it has oil in the bottom cap. So did i put the 
MUU-10X15X3 seal in the wrong way? it has a raised part on one edge. any thoughts?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I've never experienced that so I have to think that either the u-cup is in backwards or the o-ring that seals the cartridge end cap is damaged or leaking somehow. The U-cup should be facing so that the side with the double lips is facing in toward the oil chamber. If that's not the answer, maybe rebuild the cartridge, then submerge it in water to find the leak?

Let me know what you find. 
Chris


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## alexdesignz (Aug 2, 2015)

So my seal is facing the other way, will try. if that doesnt work should i try that reverb seal?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

The IFP is not likely your culprit. Let me know how things go when you flip the u-cup seal. That should take care of it. 

Good luck
Chris


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## alexdesignz (Aug 2, 2015)

So i guess i am confused to what a IFP is then.

Either way I put together my cartridge and feel like a pro since i have done it 3x.

Oh i found a easy way to get the inner shaft and cartridge cap on, it screwed on so easily:


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## zsasbo (Oct 29, 2016)

*Flawless Victory!*

Chris,

Thank you for the clear write up!! I have a 1 year old KS LEV Integra that started to pogo. Had to purchase KS Post Paste, a spanner wrench and 5Wt oil. Unfortunately I wrapped the small post with an old inner tube with 12 layers on each side and clamped a set of lock-jaw pliers onto the rubber and the pliers when all the way through that rubber and slightly marred the shaft. Not too bad though and I hope it doesn't cause a future leak. But I am happy to report that its all back together and no more pogo!! great instruction!! Prime example of the power of the internet.

For anyone scared about the release of pressure from the cartridge, mine barely made a noise.

Thanks again!!!

John


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. Sorry to hear about your damper rod. I definitely prefer the soft jaws and rubber technique over anything else. Hopefully it's not deep enough to cause oil leakage but you can always replace the cartridge if necessary down the road. 

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you're back up and running. 

Chris


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## Jam0864 (Nov 27, 2016)

Thanks for the guide, I wouldn't have figured it out on my own. The post appears to work now without changing any of the seals. I'm skeptical that it will hold up long term without any seal changes, as obviously a seal leak caused the problem in the first place. At least now that I know I can rebuild it, and now that I know what sizes the seals are I can do that in the future too. 

One thing that I thought was odd was that my IFP was easy to get back onto the shaft, when your post emphasises that its difficult and even has a trick with a socket to make it easier. I suppose this might mean there's something wrong with my IFP seal? Then again if the IFP seal wasn't working I'd expect the post to continuously sink, whereas mine just had an inch of play off the top, so I believe my issue was air in the oil chamber. 

Anyway, thanks for the guide, saved me a couple of weeks off the bike, $250 for a new cartridge install and taught me how these dropper posts work!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Glad to hear you're up and running. Yes, often times a simple bleed will keep things running smoothly for a while but eventually, you'll need a seal change. The quad seals (3 total) are the most important because they slide up and down the system repeatedly and are therefore susceptible to wear. The IFP quad rings (2) are what separate the air and oil chambers and yours are likely worn - hence the ease with which your IFP reinserted on the tube. A new quad ring will have more prominent lips which will then require the 10 mm socket technique (seriously can't thank that guy enough for that idea - so much easier). 

$250 for a cartridge swap?!!!! The cartridges can be purchased from Universal Cycles (last I checked) for around $80 FYI. 

I hope things continue to run smoothly for you for a while. Thanks for the feedback. 

Chris


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## Jam0864 (Nov 27, 2016)

After shipping and currency conversion the cartridge is $170 AUD, which explains the $250 service price. There may be a marginally cheaper source to get them here since the shipping was a bit pricy, but I hope I don't have to look into it haha.

Just a thought looking at those cartridges, can i put a 150mm cartridge in my 125mm lev? I assume it won't fit into the black lower tube?

I thought so, now that I know how to do the service, and all the hard parts still look to be in very good condition, I'll look into replacement o rings so they're on hand when this fails again.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Wow. Yeah, new cartridge probably isn't worth it.

I don't believe the 150 cartridge will work in the 125 case unfortunately.

Chris


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

sorry guys, long thread to find my answer in it... 

what parts are needed to swap from the old integra actuator to the latest one? I see the new one is threaded into the very end of the outer, but my tube has threads only an inch away... will I need a new one, or should I simply cut my one?

thank you!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

savo said:


> sorry guys, long thread to find my answer in it...
> 
> what parts are needed to swap from the old integra actuator to the latest one? I see the new one is threaded into the very end of the outer, but my tube has threads only an inch away... will I need a new one, or should I simply cut my one?
> 
> thank you!


KS was upgrading these for people at no cost because the original system was flawed. It's been a while but they may still be doing that. I'm not sure it's something that can be tackled yourself as my thought is that they replace the black casing. It will need to be a different length and threaded differently at the end I believe.

Good luck and let us know what you find out after you call them.

Chris


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

cakelly4 said:


> KS was upgrading these for people at no cost because the original system was flawed. It's been a while but they may still be doing that. I'm not sure it's something that can be tackled yourself as my thought is that they replace the black casing. It will need to be a different length and threaded differently at the end I believe.
> 
> Good luck and let us know what you find out after you call them.
> 
> Chris


I hope I can just cut my outer tube to the length of the new version's and use the thread that should be in the right position for the new actuator.

I'll check and see in a few days and let you know.


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## alexdesignz (Aug 2, 2015)

cakelly4 said:


> The IFP is not likely your culprit. Let me know how things go when you flip the u-cup seal. That should take care of it.
> 
> Good luck
> Chris


So rebuild has been perfect since i flipped that seal.


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## Pegleg81 (Aug 6, 2014)

Hi Chris,

I have a KS Lev Integra 27.2 and I think it is a newer model with the black stanchion. It is working fine, but I think that it's just too slow coming back up.

Do you offer any services to increase the speed the post rises back up? If so, then for how much?

Much thanks.

Stuart


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

savo said:


> I hope I can just cut my outer tube to the length of the new version's and use the thread that should be in the right position for the new actuator.


It worked, as easy as I was supposing. Just cut out 20mm from the outer casing and threaded in the new actuator.


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## KnuutV (Oct 6, 2013)

Hello all,
and a huge thank you for this thread!

I have an old KS supernatural that I've managed to keep alive thanks to you guys.

Now it has stardet to not stay down because the valve is leaking a little.

Does anybody know if these seals,

B90007 007 N90 Buna-N Nitrile O-ring Duro 90 [B90007] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

N1.00X002 (X2) 1mm X 2mm Metric Buna-N 70 O-ring [N1.00X002] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!

would also fit the valve of the Supernatural?

The old seal has disappeared so I can't use it for measure...

Thanks in advance!


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Hey Chris, I have quite a number of rebuilds under my belt with my own and several other's DX's and Integra's. I just acquired a '16 LEV 272 for my singlespeed and it needs nothing at the moment but I went with it due to my familiarity and serviceability with the other units. Have you had the opportunity to tear into a LEV 272, yet? From what I have seen up till now, the internals appear to be the same idea as the DX but I'm unsure of the air recharge aspect. Wondering if it's like the old Supernatural? After breezing this now incredibly long thread, figured I'd just pose the question here.

Tim


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## nachimir (Feb 25, 2014)

zsasbo said:


> For anyone scared about the release of pressure from the cartridge, mine barely made a noise.


I serviced one for a friend recently, and despite letting all the air pressure out, it made an enormous bang as I unthreaded the top of the cartridge. It's the only one of four I've serviced to do this, but I'd definitely recommend a bench vise and some soft jaws for this step!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I have not had the "pleasure" of working on one of these yet so I'm not sure. In fact, I dislike the Supernatural so much, I may never attempt a 272 if asked. Haha. If you ever do it, make sure you share some pointers. Somewhere in this thread, there's mention of one but I don't remember the outcome. 

Chris


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Hey all, I saw this thread up top in components, and thanks to all the great responses from CAKELLY, he helped me when I owned a LEV. I have been on a Gravity Dropper for over a year now, and I do not miss a hydraulic Dropper. I can't believe I ever wasted the time disassembling my LEV. Do your yourselves a favor, and move on. Gravity Droppers work great all the time. I use Thomson remote lever, so it looks good, and no rubber boot in summer. Looking forward to E13 mechanical Dropper, to compete with GD, so I will post when I get my hands on one. Good luck to you guys, but really, a $400 product that fails all the time is a joke.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

hoolie said:


> Hey all, I saw this thread up top in components, and thanks to all the great responses from CAKELLY, he helped me when I owned a LEV. I have been on a Gravity Dropper for over a year now, and I do not miss a hydraulic Dropper. I can't believe I ever wasted the time disassembling my LEV. Do your yourselves a favor, and move on. Gravity Droppers work great all the time. I use Thomson remote lever, so it looks good, and no rubber boot in summer. Looking forward to E13 mechanical Dropper, to compete with GD, so I will post when I get my hands on one. Good luck to you guys, but really, a $400 product that fails all the time is a joke.


Funny, mine has never failed, nor have any of the others I have worked on. They're suspension components just like a fork or shock that require periodic service.

Move along and don't shitify a perfectly good informative thread with your bogus opinion.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Easy big guy! I used to be a part of this thread. Opened up with a thank you, and I wouldn't wish any bad mojo on your bike, regardless of your comment. You are very fortunate to have a Dropper that is flawless.


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## andy b. (Sep 7, 2010)

I need some honest feedback. I have both a RockShox Reverb, and a KS LEV Integra seatpost. The RockShox has been flawless for almost a year. The Integra started sagging within 2 weeks of owning it. I am going to purchase another dropper seatpost and would like to get another Reverb, but every place seems to be out of stock on the size I need. There are tons of Integras available in the size. Is this telling me something? Do all these Integras start sucking after a month, or did I just get a lemon the first time. The sagging is so annoying I don't even want to deal with it on another one.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

andy b. said:


> I need some honest feedback. I have both a RockShox Reverb, and a KS LEV Integra seatpost. The RockShox has been flawless for almost a year. The Integra started sagging within 2 weeks of owning it. I am going to purchase another dropper seatpost and would like to get another Reverb, but every place seems to be out of stock on the size I need. There are tons of Integras available in the size. Is this telling me something? Do all these Integras start sucking after a month, or did I just get a lemon the first time. The sagging is so annoying I don't even want to deal with it on another one.


I don't have as many refurbs under my belt as Chris (the OP) but I've got quite a few, now. My experience has been that the Integras and DX's will do the sag thing maybe once per season. I have yet to come across one with issues other than that. The fact you had one happen so soon is an oddball IME. There are aspects of the Reverb that don't thrill me and I really like to be able to service my own components because I have that ability. That draws me to the KS in addition to the fact that it's a very smooth piece of equipment. Internal parts for rebuilds are readily available online and at Art's which is local to me, but through BTI, as well. I see a dropper as no different than a fork or shock. They must be maintained. I tend to see the LEV's periodic sag event as a reminder that it's time for service. My .02.

btw...what was the outcome of your LEV experience? Did you fix it?


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## andy b. (Sep 7, 2010)

Oh My Sack! said:


> btw...what was the outcome of your LEV experience? Did you fix it?


I travel a lot for work, which makes it a giant PITA to have to send things in for warranty work. The LEV is sitting on my desk waiting for me to contact KS for the RMA. I leave again on 3-JAN for a month, so it will be sitting on my desk a while longer. I'll give KS another chance, but if they tell me the other one is out of warranty I will never deal with them again. Like I said, the sagging annoys me so much, and the difficulty in me trying to ship something back when it breaks, makes me hesitant to buy another one. I will say the LEV worked beautifully for the two weeks it functioned.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Thanks for creating and supporting this thread! I just picked up a used LEV for $100, and with the help of this thread and the KS videos have been able to overhaul it. I replaced the DU bushing, the roller bearing, lower guide bushings, and string with new parts from Universal. It looked like water had gotten into the lower half - it was pretty gunked up. There's also some wear on the lower portion of the stanchion. It seems to be working fine now, but I may just replace the stanchion down the road rather than service the hydraulic cartridge.

See picture of the stanchion: 








Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

andy b. said:


> I need some honest feedback. I have both a RockShox Reverb, and a KS LEV Integra seatpost. The RockShox has been flawless for almost a year. The Integra started sagging within 2 weeks of owning it. I am going to purchase another dropper seatpost and would like to get another Reverb, but every place seems to be out of stock on the size I need. There are tons of Integras available in the size. Is this telling me something? Do all these Integras start sucking after a month, or did I just get a lemon the first time. The sagging is so annoying I don't even want to deal with it on another one.


This is a tough one. There do seem to be some major lemons out there but I will say this is also true for the Reverb (sagging and all). I ride with a bunch of guys with Reverbs who are frequently sending theirs in for warranty as well. The nice thing about Rock Shox is that this typically means a brand new post. Up until recently, the LEVs I dealt with would go 6 or more months with no issue. Lately however, I have run into a few that will have problems approximately 3-4 rides after I repair them - this didn't used to be the norm and I'm not sure if these guys are doing something differently when riding but I ride with them and I don't think so. What I have noticed is that the ones that fail early on seem to continue to have problems whereas the ones that fail later (likely worn seals) hold the repair for quite some time. I'm just speculating but maybe there are some with slightly faulty machining and are therefore more prone to failure. Since KS swaps out the entire cartridge, maybe your next will not have such a short life. This is why I've recently told my friends to warranty the cartridge rather than have me repair it since there's clearly more going on. As mentioned above, droppers are like suspension and the LEV is far easier to service if that's your thing. Personally I also prefer a cable actuation rather than another hydraulic line to service periodically BUT if wrenching isn't your thing, maybe it should come down to customer service - I think Rock Shox has proven to be a little more consistent in that regard.



TedS123 said:


> Thanks for creating and supporting this thread! I just picked up a used LEV for $100, and with the help of this thread and the KS videos have been able to overhaul it. I replaced the DU bushing, the roller bearing, lower guide bushings, and string with new parts from Universal. It looked like water had gotten into the lower half - it was pretty gunked up. There's also some wear on the lower portion of the stanchion. It seems to be working fine now, but I may just replace the stanchion down the road rather than service the hydraulic cartridge.
> 
> See picture of the stanchion:
> View attachment 1113126
> ...


Nice. Glad you got it up and running. A new cartridge isn't a bad idea when the time comes to service it anyway. I hope it continues to run well for you.

Chris


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## Lithified (Apr 14, 2007)

andy b. said:


> I need some honest feedback. I have both a RockShox Reverb, and a KS LEV Integra seatpost. The RockShox has been flawless for almost a year. The Integra started sagging within 2 weeks of owning it. I am going to purchase another dropper seatpost and would like to get another Reverb, but every place seems to be out of stock on the size I need. There are tons of Integras available in the size. Is this telling me something? Do all these Integras start sucking after a month, or did I just get a lemon the first time. The sagging is so annoying I don't even want to deal with it on another one.


That's a bummer to hear about new Levs having reliability issues. None of the top dogs have a perfect post. But for every lemon there's an equally killer one out there. I have been on my Lev Integra for over a year and have not touched it. Working perfectly. I know for this, cakelly would promptly scold me, and I'm going to service it this winter just because.

Good luck, but don't let one lemon scare you away from Levs. Really can be great posts.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Thanks! Another thing I ran into during the overhaul was the replacement of the isolator pellet. The string kit from Universal comes with just two, and of course I dropped one on the floor, never to be seen again. Our local Walmart and craft store don't carry the bean bag pellets that are linked on the OP, so I was desperately looking for a substitute. My wife ended up making a few small beads with her hot glue gun, and I picked one that fit inside the barrel. The hot glue bead was much more compressible than the plastic pellet, and had to be tightened to the point that it actually started to extrude a bit out of the hole where the string passes through. Otherwise it would slip. The nice thing about it was that its rubberiness allowed me to loosen and retighten as I played around with getting the cable tension right. Hopefully it will hold up and not slip over time. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## KnuutV (Oct 6, 2013)

KnuutV said:


> Hello all,
> and a huge thank you for this thread!
> 
> I have an old KS supernatural that I've managed to keep alive thanks to you guys.
> ...


I love the O-ring store! They shipped me about 2 € worth of o-rings to Finland fast (about 1 week) and cheap (10 €)!!!

Once I got them I disassembled my Supernatural and this is how the valve looks like:








To get to it, you need to unscrew the seat clamp. I use my bike as a vice, a big adjustable wrench and some heat to remove it. After that I use a plastic pipe to push the valve out of the stanchion. For assembly, use mild thread lock.

The o-rings mentioned above seemed to fit the valve and the valve stem of the supernatural perfectly and I managed to get post working perfectly again. No riding done yet as it is too cold... But I'll update in a few months how the post is holding up.


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## socalspeeddemon (Dec 10, 2015)

Hey chris, I just mailed you my ks Lev, bare post, i sent a return label with it, i lost the emails we swapped, it will be coming from Newhall ca. just had the 1/2 sag problem.
let me know if you need anything else.
thanks 
Danny.


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## zsasbo (Oct 29, 2016)

*sag is back...again and again...*



cakelly4 said:


> You're welcome. Sorry to hear about your damper rod. I definitely prefer the soft jaws and rubber technique over anything else. Hopefully it's not deep enough to cause oil leakage but you can always replace the cartridge if necessary down the road.
> 
> Thanks for the update. I'm glad you're back up and running.
> 
> Chris


So my KS Lev has sagged again initially after just a couple rides. This time, it doesn't do the pogo thing, it is just dropped. So I re-filled the oil again and it worked for only one ride then dropped even more substantially this time. Any advice on replacement of o-rings/parts to prevent this? Seems like things are getting worse. Considering shipping back to manufacturer for warranty as this unit is less than 2 years old.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

This sounds like one of the problem ones I've dealt with lately. If it's under warranty, a new cartridge is probably a great plan. I've had a few lately that just don't seem to hold the repair for long despite replacing all of the seals and several different techniques to be sure no air enters the system. My suspicion is that tolerances of the tubing/parts are just slightly off and therefore new seals just don't cut it.

Chris


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## dosomethinggreat (Oct 4, 2007)

I have a KS LEV DX and it had corrosion on the post in the frame so when I removed the post the bottom cap twisted some and I have been struggling ever since. When I removed the bottom cap it twisted the actuator assembly and pulled the kevlar cable out of the metal end bushing. I cleaned it, served it, replaced cable, but then when I go to put the final black end cap on it binds again against what I assume is the silver metal actuator. When I unscrewed it, the cap had twisted the silver metal actuator. Could this have gotten damaged if it was over tightened by accident when I was twisting it back and forth trying to get it out of the bike frame?


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## dosomethinggreat (Oct 4, 2007)

Well looking closer at the pictures my actuator assembly appears to be bent. Any one know how this happens?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I'm guessing that your bottom cap was slightly unthreaded. Since the ridge on the bottom cap holds you up by the ridge on the actuator, an unthreaded cap allows the actuator to move up and down slightly and can likely bend it. Whatever the cause, I've seen the problem you described before and ended up having to replace both the bottom cap and the actuator assembly. In your case, you may get away with replacing the actuator only though.

Good luck,
Chris


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## dosomethinggreat (Oct 4, 2007)

Thanx!
Jeremy


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## KnuutV (Oct 6, 2013)

zsasbo said:


> So my KS Lev has sagged again initially after just a couple rides. This time, it doesn't do the pogo thing, it is just dropped. So I re-filled the oil again and it worked for only one ride then dropped even more substantially this time. Any advice on replacement of o-rings/parts to prevent this? Seems like things are getting worse. Considering shipping back to manufacturer for warranty as this unit is less than 2 years old.


I don't have any experience on the LEV, but the symptoms sound the same as with my Supernatural when the valve was leaking. The post would not stay up, but would slowly sag under weight. It would not pogo, but it would slowly rise from down position.

I would change the seal in the valve and the valve stem, if you haven't done that already...


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## mudia (Apr 8, 2008)

I own KS Dropzone for 2 years. Recently a problem occurred. There is something like initial stiction when I want to lower my seat post. The stiction occurs only when I lower my post FOR THE FIRST TIME. When I do it again, there is no stiction and everything is smooth again. The stiction usually returns after few minutes of not moving the post.

I’ve cleaned and greased the post many times, but it didn’t help. Besides, this stiction occurs also when the Cartier is outside the outer body.

As the next step I opened the cartridge, and inspected the seals. Everything looked ok. I change the problematic X-ring 113 (the tight one from inside the ), filled with oil and finish the work. No change, the stiction still exists.

I couldn’t unthread the „head” (saddle mount) from the cartridge. I didn’t want to use to much force.

I wait for the rest of the moving seals and replace them when I get the package, but I’m not sure it will help. 

Does anyone have a solution for this problem?


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## alm865 (Jan 15, 2017)

*27.2mm Version Without Air Hole*

So to start, I have no idea what I am doing. My dropper broke and I just wanted to get it to work again so I didn't have to buy a new one. I know very little about how this dropper works, just that this method will make the dropper work again by manually pulling it up and down with the lever pressed in. I have no idea how to recharge it so it goes up automatically again.

Okay, so if you're unlucky like me and have the 27.2mm version WITHOUT any air holes AND your dropper does not work at all, this is for you. If your dropper is still kinda working by pulling it up and down manually, don't even consider attempting this until someone else has worked out the correct way to re-assemble this version dropper. I do not know anything about this seat dropper apart from what I pulled apart.

Exploded view of 27.2mm Version dropper:
















*PROCEDURE:
*

*FORENOTE:*. Leave the seat on, it'll make the seat post easier to handle, AND there is nothing up there in our version anyway.

*STEP 1*. Follow Steps 1-4 from the original post OR this is how I did it because my actuator was seized beyond the point of me getting it off:

Attach a drill extension to the actuator like this with some electrical tape:









Set your drill to unscrew and drill and pull gently. The seat post will wobble all over the place but with any luck it should come free.

*STEP 2*. Either: Follow Steps 5-8 OR this is how I got my top part off:

The actuator NEEDS to be off at this point! With one swift action, pull the outer black tube away from the seat. It will come off with relative ease.

*STEP 3*. Slide all the bits apart and you should be left with just the seat, gold seat post slide with a grey lower half.

*STEP 4*. Use the trick that was already posted here and use a 14mm nut to unscrew the two parts of the seat post. Place the grey part to one side (I have a feeling this is where the air needs to go but I have no idea how to recharge it!)

*STEP 5*. Get your actuator assembly that you pulled off before with the push rod and screw it in the valve assembly that is still in the gold part of the seat post. Press the push rod to release the valve and it should slide out.

*STEP 6*. Fill the seat post with oil all the way to the top (minus a little bit). It's heaps easier to use a syringe for the next few steps. You'll only need 30ml at most. I used 10W40 engine oil since my post was already broken and I just didn't care anymore by that point.









*STEP 7*. Put the valve assembly back in, use the silver push rod in the actuator assembly to push it all the way in (enough so that you can screw the grey part back in). Have a towel ready to clean any spillage before it reaches your seat.

*STEP 8*. Get the grey bit you put aside before and start screwing it in. Do this slowly, there will probably be leakage. Use the 14mm nut trick to tighten it back in. Make sure there is no air in there or the seat will feel spongy and won't hold it's position.









*STEP 10*. Reverse steps 3-1 to put it back together.

So finally, I do have an idea on how to recharge this dropper. MAYBE if you drilled and tapped the top silver plug under the seat and loctited a presta valve in there, you may be able to pump it up again. I don't know if this would work but it's the only way I can think of.... my only advice is to ignore everything I've said in my post and work things out for yourself, because I'm probably wrong considering i have no idea what I am doing.


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## alm865 (Jan 15, 2017)

*27.2mm Version Without Air Hole*

Soooooooo, I've found the air hole and it's minuscule! I have a 0.2mm drill bit (yes point two millimeter or 200um) for unclogging my 3D printer nozzle and its smaller than that. See pic below:









It looks like a spot of dirt but it's actually a very small hole.

I've abandoned all hope of ever fixing my 27.2 dropper. Unfortunately the whole thing has made me a bit sour about LEV droppers, I don't think I'd buy another one again. It's not that i didn't like the LEV, it's more that I'd really like the option to pump it up myself if it looses its pressure, and the 27.2 LEV was really bad at loosing pressure. It's a real deal breaker for me...


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I did manage to mackle up an adaptor that will let me connect a shock pump to a hypodermic needle. I've just not found one of the right size yet.


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## alm865 (Jan 15, 2017)

onzadog said:


> I did manage to mackle up an adaptor that will let me connect a shock pump to a hypodermic needle. I've just not found one of the right size yet.


I don't like your chances. Wiki hypodermic needles, the smallest i saw was 0.45mm. The hole on mine is less than 0.2mm.

I guess you could use a 0.5mm HSS drill bit to make the hole a little bigger so your hypodermic needle fits? It'll be mighty hard to do it from the back, my 0.2mm drill bit is only about 20mm long. You'd have to widen the entire hole.


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I have pretty much given up as I've no idea what pressure hypodermic needles are rated to either.


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## andy b. (Sep 7, 2010)

These KS LEVs are really starting to appear like junk to me. I weigh 155 with gear. I picked up a 27.5 for my Pugsley. I mounted it last week and it seemed to work perfectly. I took it out today for a ride for the first time, and all worked well. I bring the bike home, wipe it down with a wet rag to get the dirt off, and now the seatpost is stuck in the up position. It doesn't do anything. The cable is actuating the lever to operate the post, but nothing happens. The last one lasted two weeks, this one lasted one day.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm trying to find the post that had a link to someone successfully working on the 272. It might have been mentioned on another thread and he linked his blog-site with a description of the work...though it wasn't a detailed point by point explanation. He did mention a 25ga needle fit the hole. Still looking....

also, he was shimming the actuator with tiny 1mm washers to increase engagement citing the actuator does not offer full throw of the valve which could be some of the above issues mentioned.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Found it in a different thread...

http://forums.mtbr.com/components/ks-lev-rebounds-slow-1027123.html

Post #10 from 'pvd' or peterverdonedesigns.com.

I haven't attempted communication, yet because my 272 is functioning flawlessly, though a little slow on return, but that's a common trait it would seem and apparently "pvd" has fixed this to some degree and shows some steps but no detailed info. I'd really like to do a concise play-by-play photo/video teardown and repair on the 272 but not willing to sacrifice my fully functional unit for the cause, at least not until it needs service.


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

andy b. said:


> These KS LEVs are really starting to appear like junk to me. I weigh 155 with gear. I picked up a 27.5 for my Pugsley. I mounted it last week and it seemed to work perfectly. I took it out today for a ride for the first time, and all worked well. I bring the bike home, wipe it down with a wet rag to get the dirt off, and now the seatpost is stuck in the up position. It doesn't do anything. The cable is actuating the lever to operate the post, but nothing happens. The last one lasted two weeks, this one lasted one day.


Have you tried to increase cable tension? If it's loose (cable stretched), it will not work.


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## andy b. (Sep 7, 2010)

PeterG said:


> Have you tried to increase cable tension? If it's loose (cable stretched), it will not work.


I pulled the seatpost out of my Pugsley yesterday and the silver cap on the bottom fell off and it appears the "cable" running down to the linkage at the bottom of the seatpost is broke and the linkage is damaged. This is with 1 hour and 23 minutes of riding time (according to Strava) on the new seatpost. I think the KS seatposts are pretty much junk, no matter what the other posters have said in this thread. If anyone asks for a recommendation on these seatposts, I would recommend they be avoided. The problem is, the Pugsley takes a 27.2 seatpost, and I only have room for one with 100mm of travel. That means the KS LEV is the only seatpost commonly available.


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

andy b. said:


> ... I think the KS seatposts are pretty much junk, no matter what the other posters have said in this thread. If anyone asks for a recommendation on these seatposts, I would recommend they be avoided...


Probably you are right. But reading other brands dropper post forums KS are on par or even better that some of them. People have problems with all brands, inc. new Fox or 9point8. So is there any significantly better choice of infinitely adjusted dropper post (regardless of you are bound to 27.2mm)? Please share.


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## andy b. (Sep 7, 2010)

I have a Reverb on another bike and a few friends have them. If they made a 27.2 I'd buy one tomorrow. I was looking at the Thomson, but it is too long for me to use in the Pugsley frame for the height I need the seat at. The KS is really the only infinitely adjustable seatpost that will work in my situation. Which irritates me.


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## Mithrandir (Nov 25, 2010)

Shame you experienced that. My old LEV (non integra) is 4+ years old and still running fine without any internal replacements other than periodic services done my myself.

My current Reverb already had to see the store with less than 1 year of use, and from what I read about those seems I was lucky.


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

My old LEV exactly ditto, 4+ years old and only periodic services by myself.

My current RF Turbine was leaking air from the beginning and replaced by RF authorised service, so far going well, but I've riden it not more than ca 5 - 6 months.


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## ledude (Feb 12, 2004)

cakelly4, you have a PM.


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## jeffgicklhorn (Aug 28, 2015)

Has anyone gotten their Supernatural IFP stuck inside the stantion? I removed the interior tube but the IFP slipped off and remained inside. It's almost to the end of the stantion, up against the seat clamp. No idea on how to remove it without destroying the inside of the stantion. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Put the interior tube back in all the way. Then, activate the lever while simultaneously pushing the piston head into the inner tube. The air should force the IFP up the tube. 

Good luck
Chris


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## mudia (Apr 8, 2008)

I had the same problem with dropzone. I made a hook on thin alu pipe and carefully try to "grab" piston with its end. I managed to do "grab" piston's inner quad ring and carefully pulled piston out. I damaged the quad ring but I had a new one so it wasn't a problem. Be careful no to scratch the inner tube.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Good call. I've used a j-bend spoke similarly as well.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

This is a great and informative thread. I had purchased a used Integra sometime ago and had my LBS install it. I was told I might have trouble. Well...the LBS must have set it up reasonably well, because it worked well for close to two years before it sagged right down on a trip to Whistler last summer. I had the shop swap in my "back-up" command post and only now have started looking at a rebuild. But...it's a 1st gen Integra! For a bit I was puzzled when I looked at the photos early in this thread. Sigh. I'm hoping it's doable to upgrade the actuator, but I suspect there are too many differences to make it feasible.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

In the past, KS was upgrading to the second generation actuator free-of-charge since the first gen. was defective. Not sure how this would work for someone other than the original owner but I'd give them a call to see how they can help. Unfortunately, I don't think it's a simple case of swapping the actuator. 

Chris


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I have a near four year old KS lev. It was on my regular bike so has many miles of use and abuse on it. The cartridge was replaced about two years ago. I recently swapped it to my fat bike (having got a longer 150mm Ti post for the trail bike) and apart from being a bit slow in the return department in cold weather was doing pretty well.

Last week though I seemed to get air into the cartridge on a cold (17F) ride. Now if I operate it, it will spring about an inch when sat on. Basically, I've turned it into a suspension seat post with hight adjust 

So question is: Is this a cartridge replacement or might a cartridge service fix this? Is there a way to fix the spring issue without replacement? I'm pretty mechanically minded and I have most tools, though the one thing I do not have is the vise and soft jaws. What might my options be?


EDIT: I still have not read all of this long thread but I saw some posts on seals and seal shrinkage in cold weather. As this post will remain on my fat bike to be used for cold weather riding, are there any recommended seal replacements for better cold weather performance?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

The issue you're having will resolve with cartridge service or replacement. What is best depends on what you're comfortable with. As far as the seals go, I'm not sure if there's a type that would perform better in the cold. I will say that mine would only occasionally fail in the cold so it's not necessarily going to happen for every cold ride. Hope that helps. Good luck. 

Chris


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## harig (Nov 9, 2016)

After finding so much useful info in this thread I´d like to share some ideas/hints for maintenance:

IFP removal that got stuck down at the end of the tube can be easily removed by a hose/tube (OD smaller than 14mm) and compressed air:









Removing the one-way roller bearing from the shaft with a tire lever didn´t work at all - this thing was really stuck. 
Built a simple bearing puller out of a slotted pipe (lathe needed)







expanding is done by driving screwdrivers into the slits







(Threaded rod+washer+slidehammer to pull the bearing not in the picture)

For reinstallation of the new bearing i put it in the freezer and heated the seat tube in the ofen. Fit was still pretty tight...used a homebuild press (threaded rod + fitting piston)

Chris pls feel free to add that info/pictures to your great tutorial


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I replaced the bottom out bumper on my wifes Lev over the weekend as I found the old one squashed flat when servicing a few days prior. But now the seatpost extends half an inch upwards after you fully compress it.

edit: Resolved. The actuator had moved out of alignment with the cable by a small amount.


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## evenslower (Sep 26, 2005)

Wondering if anyone has seen this happen before? Lost pressure and spewed oil in the frame today. Took apart to see what I'd find and there it is. Broke off just below threads which are stuck in the inner/smaller tube (pic of non-broken part on first page of this thread for comparison). Can't remove broken part easily and can't seem to locate just this assembly for purchase anyway so I ordered a new cartridge. Post in use for just over a year.


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## Pegleg81 (Aug 6, 2014)

cobym2 said:


> Im sick and tired of trying and failing to repressurize the 27.2 Lev with the wonky needle system. I've run through so many hypodermic needles that my local drugstore is giving me weird looks when I order a bunch every week.
> ....


Hey, cobym2, did you have any success using the needle since your last post? If you don't mind, could you share as to why you haven't had success in using a needle? I, too, have the integra 27.2 and the return speed is waaaay too slow! Much thanks in advance!


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## banzonam (Feb 9, 2012)

I've rebuilt my own cartridges maybe 2-3 times over the past 4 years (replacing the IFP quad-ring fixed the problem and I didn't need to rebuild/bleed ever again). Thanks to this thread, I just started bleeding cartridges for my LBS. 

The first cartridge I bled from the shop was an Integra and it went fine...ish.
- Bled the cartridge as usual, took 1 try, seemingly no problem
- I reassembled & actuated just the cartridge, it goes up/down smoothly.
- I had resistance sliding the cartridge into the mast and it's super slow to extended.
- I increased air pressure to ~240PSI and greased the mast key ways, but still the same slow return.
- Rotated the mast so the brass guides were in different key ways; still slow
- Moved the brass guides 1 slot over on the cartridge thinking maybe the cartridge slots were out of tolerance; still slow
- I removed the brass guide bushings and just installed the cartridge into the mast. The cartridge moved through much smoother than before, how I would expect it to.

I'm suspecting the culprit is the brass guides or the key ways? 
Has anyone experienced this and figured out how to fix it?

Thanks!


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

Anyone know where to source the hand held soft-jaw type thing the guy uses in the KS video? I don't have a bench vise and probably won't be getting one. Sometimes the rubber glove technique just doesn't work and sometimes the visegrip/pliers over padding is a bit scary (since I've already scratched one rod!)


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

banzonam said:


> I've rebuilt my own cartridges maybe 2-3 times over the past 4 years (replacing the IFP quad-ring fixed the problem and I didn't need to rebuild/bleed ever again). Thanks to this thread, I just started bleeding cartridges for my LBS.
> 
> The first cartridge I bled from the shop was an Integra and it went fine...ish.
> - Bled the cartridge as usual, took 1 try, seemingly no problem
> ...


I would recommend replacing the DU bushing. That is often the culprit, sometimes even when it appears to be in good condition. You can sometimes test this by sliding the DU bushing up and down the stanchion before reassembly. I often do this, then compare it to a brand new DU bushing.

Chris


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## banzonam (Feb 9, 2012)

cakelly4 said:


> I would recommend replacing the DU bushing. That is often the culprit, sometimes even when it appears to be in good condition. You can sometimes test this by sliding the DU bushing up and down the stanchion before reassembly. I often do this, then compare it to a brand new DU bushing.
> 
> Chris


Hmmm, when I slid DU bushing on the stanchion, it seemed smooth. And again, when the guide bushings were out and reassembled, operation was also smooth. Still thinking DU bushing?

I also have another cartridge from the LBS I need to bleed, so I can try sliding that cartridge into this mast and see if there's a difference. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Have you tried sliding the stanchion into the post without the guide bushings and DU bushing? I would try this with none, guide bushings only, and DU bushing only. 

Some thoughts: 

If tight with none: may be one-way roller bearing cartridge or the post is slightly ovalized - I had one that seemed snug while out of bike but seemed to work fine in bike with seat post clamp - I think the post was slightly ovalized but rounded out when clamped in(?)

If tight with DU only: probably DU
If tight with guides only: may be guides or ovalizing?

Maybe try new DU anyway. I've had some that don't seem tight until I screwed the top cap down. Then new DU solved it. 

Let me know if any of this helps. I'll keep thinking. 

Chris


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

jm2e said:


> Anyone know where to source the hand held soft-jaw type thing the guy uses in the KS video? I don't have a bench vise and probably won't be getting one. Sometimes the rubber glove technique just doesn't work and sometimes the visegrip/pliers over padding is a bit scary (since I've already scratched one rod!)


You mean like a strap wrench?

https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-Ru...8&qid=1490993957&sr=8-2&keywords=strap+wrench


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## banzonam (Feb 9, 2012)

cakelly4 said:


> Have you tried sliding the stanchion into the post without the guide bushings and DU bushing? I would try this with none, guide bushings only, and DU bushing only.
> 
> Some thoughts:
> 
> ...


Aaaaaah, good to know about...everything. I'll try all that out.
Thanks!


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## banzonam (Feb 9, 2012)

jm2e said:


> Anyone know where to source the hand held soft-jaw type thing the guy uses in the KS video? I don't have a bench vise and probably won't be getting one. Sometimes the rubber glove technique just doesn't work and sometimes the visegrip/pliers over padding is a bit scary (since I've already scratched one rod!)


I don't have a good place for a solid bench vise, but for mtb maintenance, this little guy is cheap, can be clamped to a bunch of surfaces, and I've used it a ton for so many little jobs for the bike. It's a good little investment...it's also portable  I pressed in new DU bushings on a friend's rear shock at the trail head.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001LQY44/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Using a vice, I take a narrow strip of old inner tube, wrap it tight on the inner cartridge shaft, clamp it longways in the vise, and then I can remove the actuator head easily without scratching the surface, which I did on the first rebuild I did. Since then using this method, I've easily removed 3 actuator assembles from the cartridges with the factory threadlocker/whatever.

Just an option, if you're looking to buy a tool for this rebuild but is pretty all-around useful for other maintenance.

Good luck!


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

TheNormsk said:


> You mean like a strap wrench?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-Ru...8&qid=1490993957&sr=8-2&keywords=strap+wrench
> 
> View attachment 1129533


No. I mean the thing he shows off at 0:55 in the video, then uses at 2:50 in the video. It's pretty slick.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Ah,

The closest I could find for hand-held is the Park Tools AV5.

AV-5 Axle and Spindle Vise Inserts | Park Tool

Seems pricey for what it is. Search for axle vise.


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

If I have no chance to unscrew sticked tube threads (like Lapierre rear shock or dropper post) by hand and tube method, I use "installation clamping for pipes" (not sure if the translation to english is correct), sometimes 3 of them side by side mounted in the vise by hexagonal nut. This always works. Clampings are very cheap, various diameters, rubber inlay can be modified by scissors or replaced by rubber tube (wrapped around the tube).


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## banzonam (Feb 9, 2012)

cakelly4 said:


> Have you tried sliding the stanchion into the post without the guide bushings and DU bushing? I would try this with none, guide bushings only, and DU bushing only.
> 
> Some thoughts:
> 
> ...


Welp, I tried your suggestions and sure enough, the post is terrible with the DU bushing tightened down, but removing only the DU bushing, everything retracts/extends smoothly as I would expect. Thanks!

1 more post to bleed, hopefully get to it tonight and it goes well.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice! I'm glad it worked out. 

Chris


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## steve86 (Mar 27, 2007)

cakelly4 said:


> Nice! I'm glad it worked out.
> 
> Chris


PM sent.


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## fellsbiker (Jun 17, 2006)

So I've got a Dropzone, which is the post very similar to the Supernatural. I've done the manufacturer approved serving, where you take the inner cartridge out of the post and clean everything. I have not taken the inner cartridge apart because it feels pretty good, it doesn't feel dirty inside and it doesn't slip down or anything. But it does have one problem, it seems to have lost a lot of air (over the 6 years i've had it).

So all I want to do right now is put more air in it. I have a shock pump, a ball needed, and plenty of electrical table. But I cannot find the hole! I've looked in every hole in that bottom cap and none appear to have a pinhole for filling. I suspect that once I find it, I'm also going to have trouble getting a seal so I can pump into the pinhole (based on what i've seen so far) but it's like it's not there. Are we sure that this is how you fill Dropzone's?

I've even gone so far as to use my pump/needle tool to try to clean out every hole so I could get a real good look. From a certain angle, you get a shadow that makes every hole look like it has the inflator pinhole. But then you clean that hole, take a closer look, and nada! It's very weird, they had to fill this thing from the factory somehow, right?


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## fellsbiker (Jun 17, 2006)

Ok so I kept poking around and I think I found the hole.

I had the great idea that a piece of my smallest heat shrink might make for a snug fit that won't bunch up the needle. So I tried putting a few pumps of air in there. I have no idea if the are actually went in or not. It kind of feels like the post comes up easier, but I also cleaned and regressed everything, so it would probably be doing that anyway.

But I am having one problem now. I can't get the thing to drop down the last inch. That last inch is important (thats what she said) when you're going downhill, so I really want to get it back. It's almost as if the bottom out bumper is getting jammed an inch up from the bottom, but is that even possible? From what I saw, it looks like a bottom out bumper would just slide down the shaft as soon as you put the seat down the first time. If that is correct, then I guess this means I did get air into it, and I must have gotten do much into it? Based on how I had to fill it, there is clearly no easy way to let a little out. Bummer. But while the seat does rise a little better now, it doesn't SHOOT up to the top like these posts normally do when their new, so it doesn't feel like it has too much air either. Not sure what the deal is.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You probably forgot the step that helps purge the air between the cartridge and black casing. Remove the cartridge again, then when you reinstall it, leave the DU bushing and top collar loose. Activate the post and press it all the way down, THEN tighten the top collar. Should be good to go after this. 

Chris


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## fellsbiker (Jun 17, 2006)

Hmmm that makes sense, ill give it a shot.

That would also make it a little easier to put the seat up, without making it "shoot" up when you hit the lever. METHINKS I did not get any air into the piston. Oh well, it will have to do as is.


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## fellsbiker (Jun 17, 2006)

So, I just undid the blue bolt on the bottom and right away the air escaped. I unscrewed the neck collar for good measure, but that made all the difference, it's totally back to normal now.

.... normal meaning it comes up very slow like it always does. You are basically lifting it up with your hand. So it looks like I got zero air inside the piston. Bummer.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yeah, you could always try again to add air to the cartridge. I use a piece of the plastic inside cable housing (the inner most plastic liner) over the end of the ball inflator. I also make a small bend at the end of the inflator so the attached shock pump has more room to attach. Good luck. 

Chris


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## salvo44 (Oct 20, 2016)

Hello,

If I remember correctly, someone was trying the Rockshox IFP on the Ks LEV. How is it going?



Inviato dal mio E5823 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

It worked OK. Unfortunately, it was not the best test due to a likely flawed cartridge. I had a few friends who had LEVs that just seemed to fail after a few rides each time we serviced it. That was why we tried the different IFP in the first place. Unfortunately, it continued to fail and he finally just warrantied the post. I then had a new LEV that began doing the same thing and I discovered a pin hole in the cartridge, beneath one of the guide bushings. It was leaking oil, causing failure after just 1-2 rides. Turns out, I had another friend check his for this as it also would not hold a rebuild for long. Sure enough, same problem. There's actually a photo early on in this thread that shows a cartridge under water with air bubbles leaking from a similar hole in the same place as well. 

So, moral of the story is this: if you do the bleed procedure and it doesn't take for more than a few rides, look for a leak beneath the guide bushings. 

Chris


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## salvo44 (Oct 20, 2016)

cakelly4 said:


> It worked OK. Unfortunately, it was not the best test due to a likely flawed cartridge. I had a few friends who had LEVs that just seemed to fail after a few rides each time we serviced it. That was why we tried the different IFP in the first place. Unfortunately, it continued to fail and he finally just warrantied the post. I then had a new LEV that began doing the same thing and I discovered a pin hole in the cartridge, beneath one of the guide bushings. It was leaking oil, causing failure after just 1-2 rides. Turns out, I had another friend check his for this as it also would not hold a rebuild for long. Sure enough, same problem. There's actually a photo early on in this thread that shows a cartridge under water with air bubbles leaking from a similar hole in the same place as well.
> 
> So, moral of the story is this: if you do the bleed procedure and it doesn't take for more than a few rides, look for a leak beneath the guide bushings.
> 
> Chris


Thanks

Inviato dal mio E5823 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## banzonam (Feb 9, 2012)

jm2e said:


> Anyone know where to source the hand held soft-jaw type thing the guy uses in the KS video? I don't have a bench vise and probably won't be getting one. Sometimes the rubber glove technique just doesn't work and sometimes the visegrip/pliers over padding is a bit scary (since I've already scratched one rod!)











Using this method with a strip of inner tube that I mentioned earlier, I've been successful at easily removing the actuator and not scratching the rod. YMMV. Be sure to overlap the inner tube strip tightly on the rod so you don't need crazy amounts of bench vice clamping force, just enough to keep the rod from spinning.


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## tadmcmichael (Mar 19, 2012)

My three year old LEV has Integra has been great. I had one rebuild at the one year mark, but that was to update from the version one coupler at the bottom.

However, I recently developed a problem. The seatpost rises fine, but it binds when I put weight on it to go down. If I lightly press it down, it goes down fine. 

I'm thinking replace the DU bushing when I do a rebuild? Should I replace the guide bushings also? Could it be anything else?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

That's a good starting point. Make sure you clean/relube everything with slick honey before reassembling. In fact, if that hasn't been done in a while, that may be all you need to do rather than replacing anything. Also be sure to check your cable tension. Cables stretch and if they're not perfectly tight, you can get some inconsistent activation - this tends to behave like you're describing. 

Good luck. 

-Chris


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## tadmcmichael (Mar 19, 2012)

Thanks. Parts are cheap, so I went ahead and ordered the DU bushing and guide bushings. I just pulled it apart and the DU bushing felt sticky on the shaft even though it looked in good condition still. Guide bushings looked fine. I have it all ready to put back together when the new parts come in.


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## LowLow (Sep 18, 2007)

I was doing some work on a friend's bike and decided to weigh it on a hanging scale. I hung the bike by the saddle with the KS Supernatural post in the down position, which caused the saddle to come up. 

There is about 1/4" sag on the Supernatural, but I don't know if it was there before or not. Could it have been caused by me hanging the bike? If so, is there an easy way to fix it? Or would I need to open up the oil cartridge and go through the process outlined in this thread?

Thanks!


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

LowLow said:


> I was doing some work on a friend's bike and decided to weigh it on a hanging scale. I hung the bike by the saddle with the KS Supernatural post in the down position, which caused the saddle to come up.
> 
> There is about 1/4" sag on the Supernatural, but I don't know if it was there before or not. Could it have been caused by me hanging the bike? If so, is there an easy way to fix it? Or would I need to open up the oil cartridge and go through the process outlined in this thread?
> 
> Thanks!


*Never pick up a bike by its hydraulic seatpost in its compressed position**.* You just create unnecessary maintenance. What you did amounts to the process we used to have to do when preparing to bleed the crappy Avid hydraulic brakes with the syringes full of Dot 4. You impart vacuum on the oil which pulls the air out of solution and creates a bubble, then bleed it off. Done enough times to a seat post, you're going to get sag because there's no easy way to bleed it off. The remedy is to tear it down and start over just like this thread diagrams. Problem is, the Supernatural is a bit of a bi*ch from what I have garnered here. I've done numerous Integras and DX's but have not taken on a Supernatural as of yet so I haven't experienced the joy.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yeah, unfortunately that's an easy mistake to make. The SN cartridge is a PITA to work on but it can be done if necessary. Sorry man. That's a bummer. 

Chris


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## cunningstunts (Sep 1, 2011)

what is 'IFP' guys?


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## LowLow (Sep 18, 2007)

cakelly4 said:


> Yeah, unfortunately that's an easy mistake to make. The SN cartridge is a PITA to work on but it can be done if necessary. Sorry man. That's a bummer.
> 
> Chris


Thanks Chris! I actually read through this thread and bled the cartridge. Amazingly, I managed to fix it (fingers crossed). The thing is firm as hell. This was a really useful thread. Thanks a lot for all your efforts.

I used 5wt oil from Rock Shox and used the inner derailleur tube but also added a thin layer of mastic tape, which maybe helped. Anyway, this was awesome, thanks again!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

cunningstunts said:


> what is 'IFP' guys?


Internal Floating Piston - it's the black plastic thing with quad rings on the inside and outside surface. It's shown in the original post.



LowLow said:


> Thanks Chris! I actually read through this thread and bled the cartridge. Amazingly, I managed to fix it (fingers crossed). The thing is firm as hell. This was a really useful thread. Thanks a lot for all your efforts.
> 
> I used 5wt oil from Rock Shox and used the inner derailleur tube but also added a thin layer of mastic tape, which maybe helped. Anyway, this was awesome, thanks again!


Nice job! And you're welcome.

Chris


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## dindo (Apr 30, 2017)

Good day!

I thank you all for the step by step repair of the KS brand droppers. However, I'd like to seek for technical assistance regarding my 27.2 KS i7-R dropper. The first problem I encountered was during full extension, the saddle did not lock. I took off everything, cleaned, greased and replaced the oil, it did function ok, locking in full extension mode. Well, another problem cropped up, the saddle collapsed only half way the 100mm mark. I did find a short article on page 8 regarding this model, can someone show me what the correct way of rectifying this concern? Unfortunately, the Service Center here said that they no longer service the "older" models.


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

Awesome thread thanks for the write-up. I haven't read through the entire thing but got through about half of it and have a question.. 

I've tried bleeding my lev ti 3 or 4 times now and keep getting a very small amount of shaft movement, probably a millimeter or so, but can't seem to eliminate it entirely.. I keep going back to step 14b thinking I'm inserting the Piston too far.. am I on the right track is that my issue? Suggestions otherwise?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

I tried it once more before giving up.. pretty much the exact same result every time, a very small amount of drop.. is absolutely zero achievable? It's been so long since this thing was new I can't really remember how it was fresh.. 

I'm assuming zero is possible I just don't know what I'm doing wrong..?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## dindo (Apr 30, 2017)

Hi JoniBoni

Same problem with my i7R, were you successful in your rebuild? Please let me know.


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## dindo (Apr 30, 2017)

Has anyone done a complete rebuild of a KS i7-R, 27.2? Can someone direct me to a detailed thread for the DIY repair?


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

So my LEV post wouldn't function, took it apart and snapped the wire cable. The kevlar string broke because the plunger tip of the cartridge is too hard to depress.
Is the cartridge rebuild-able, is this a common problem? Or should I just get a new cartridge?
Thanks for any help!


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## sancycling (Sep 6, 2012)

It should be rebuildable. I had a similar issue with the integra. 
You will need to replace two tiny orings. Look at the pictures of Chris' original post, there is one that details all the orings needed. You will see a plunger looking aluminium piece that has two N1.00x002 orings. When breaking it down, replace them and use some slick honey when putting together. That did the trick for me.


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

ok, thanks!


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## b3b5y (Jun 2, 2017)

Hi Cakelly4. Well done, man! Whoever earlier said this thread was a singularly outstanding achievement was right on - thank you for your work and dedication. I registered here just to say that.
After reading this I bought a 2nd gen KS lev integra for 60bucks off a well known auction site, claiming, "for parts - 1.5" sag". I bought it, followed the instructions and the action is now 0" sag and 100% awesome. Great work, and great work to the guy with the ifp socket trick - that also is genius.
The only thing I want to add is that after the first rebuild I had a super slow air leak, like 20psi a day. I took it apart again and submerged the cartridge to find a tiny leak around the Schrader unit. I therefore rebuilt but paid close attention to cleaning and greasing up that seal. I submerged the cartridge again and it seems to be leak free - certainly not producing the bubble like before - fingers crossed it ll stay that way  I do think that it's a massive plus to have a post that is so easy to work on, it's a piece of kit that takes suck a battering that being able to work on it is such a bonus.
Anyway, all the best and happy riding dude - keep up the good work!


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## b3b5y (Jun 2, 2017)

*such


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks! I'm glad this thread continues to be helpful. I think submerging it after a rebuild is a smart idea. I've seen similar leaks and have recently discovered 2 posts that had a leak through the cartridge wall itself in one of the grooves for the copper guide bushings. One of those was my own. I also can't express enough how helpful the socket IFP trick is. That step was always the most infuriating. Eventually, I plan to update the original post with that tidbit. 

Thanks again and enjoy the "new" LEV. 

-Chris


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## spacehopper (Feb 2, 2006)

Thanks for all the useful info!

managed to get my LEV 27.2 rebuilt and re-pressurised finally using help from this thread!

its a *massive pain* to re-pressurise the 27.2 LEV though..

the tiny inflation hole in mine appeared to be about 1mm and no hypodermic needles would fit properly.. 
so i drilled it out slowly with a micro drill bit to 1.2mm and used a modified 18 Gauge needle..

keeping the air inside the cartridge was a massive pain.. 
I tried all sorts of sizes of O-Rings but nothing worked.. i think the groove in mine had a few tiny scratches so it wouldnt seal.. 
so I put a bit of PU sealant under the o-ring.. 
inflated it really quickly.. 
left the needle in for a few minutes..
took the needle out..
and some sealant 'plugged' the hole

It will make it more difficult (or perhaps impossible..) to re-pressurise in the future as ill need to clean the air path out with needles or something.. but it worked as a fix for now..

another thing i noticed whilst working on the post..

The 'oil' side of the cartridge can be dismantledwithout needing to de-pressurised the air cartridge..!! 
(or at least mine could.. there may have been design changes..!) 
so an oil / seal change is possible if air has got trapped from say.. pulling up on the post when compressed..

as long as you keep the shaft inside the bottom darker grey cartridge it will stay pressurised, as the IFP inside it is locked in place by the threaded portion..

things to note though when doing this..

unscrew it nice and slowly.. oil WILL leak out and potentially at pressure..

when rebuilding..

i slid the silver damper assembly away from the air cartridge a few cm..filled the void inside the air cartridge section with oil.. and then slid the damper assembly back up against the air cartridge.. this traps a bit of oil behind the locking damper head..

filled the post with oil and then screwed the air cartridge back on..

some oil will leak out during this process, and you may need to depress the activation lever a few times..

The reason for the oil under the damper head is so that the oil part is slightly 'over filled' and will move the IFP up slightly when screwed on fully..

This makes it quite hard to screw the air cartridge on for the last few threads (a strap wrench will help..) as you are acting against the pressurised air..

I found if I didn't do this the post wouldnt extend fully.. it would pop up 90mm or so and then stop (with the normal clunk).. but could be pulled up the extra 10mm by hand..

the slight overfill gives the full 100mm of up and down movement..

the whole process is full of :madman::madman::madman::madman: though and is a bit of a bodge if using the sealant..

I spoke a little with Grant from South coast suspension in the UK who services LEV's and he doesnt service the 27.2 cartridges anymore as there is no completley reliable way of re-pressurising them.. he just replaces the whole pressure stick..


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## spacehopper (Feb 2, 2006)

When rebuilding I used redline 2.5Weight oil to try and speed up the post as much as possible without needing to use as much air pressure..

as some 27.2 LEvs have a very slow return speed..

and i think i used about 250-300 PSI Air in the cart.. It was over 300 with the needle in (my pump gauge stops at 300) and it lost a bit when the needle was taken out before the sealant took fully


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## jason3559 (Mar 10, 2004)

cakelly4 said:


> I've never experienced that so I have to think that either the u-cup is in backwards or the o-ring that seals the cartridge end cap is damaged or leaking somehow. The U-cup should be facing so that the side with the double lips is facing in toward the oil chamber. If that's not the answer, maybe rebuild the cartridge, then submerge it in water to find the leak?
> 
> Let me know what you find.
> Chris


cakelly4, your efforts and patience are exemplary. There should be a lifetime achievement in mtbr.com for work and communications like this. Thank you.

1st issue: Ok, so the open cavity part of the u-cup seal should be oriented facing the actuator assembly end, correct? If it hasn't already been suggested (and I realize this is all pro bono work, for the good of man), would it be possible to state the correct orientation of the u-cup seal within the pictures showing parts and the oring numbers? I think I installed mine backwards. Easy fix (and I used a 3/8" socket to get the IFP installed...wonderful idea whoever thought of that...the AA battery idea is also pretty elegant).

2nd issue: Now the actuator shaft/piston end will not insert far enough to allow the mast end sleeve assembly to thread into the piston shaft. The suggestion I am seeing is, start over. Ok, easy enough. But it is not clear why this is happening so I can keep it from happening again.

3rd issue: Maybe this is the cause for the 2nd issue. The one part of the rebuild description/pictures I find challenging is the re-insertion of the piston into the IFP shaft while actuating the push rod and push rod cap. How far in should I push the piston end into the IFP tube? I know it states to level the gold of the piston with the top of the outer shaft, but trying to see that through the oil is not easy and I continually insert too far (and have to start over). During the last rebuild, I suctioned excess oil out to help with the visuals, but I still over inserted. I have the same issue inserting the piston into the IFP shaft on my reverb as well. To me, this is the crux move of the entire rebuild process and a fine art. Any suggestions?

Many thanks!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

1. The open cavity portion should be facing into the cartridge in order to retain the oil. 

2. I'm sorry, but I can't quite picture what you are describing here. 

3. A technique that may help you is to do this:
-pour the oil into the cartridge until almost overflowing
-have the cartridge end cap already slid on to the damper shaft
-slide the end cap all the way down so that it's bumped up against the damper end
-now use one hand to depress the actuator/open the damper
-place your other hand on the end cap and use it to push the damper into the oil until the threads engage 

This will ensure that it's only in as far as it needs to be. Just be careful when depressing the actuator rod not to push on the entire shaft or you'll sink in too far again. Also, when doing it this way, you may find that you have to periodically depress the actuator piston as you tighten the end cap - it basically creates a hydro lock. 

Hope this helps. Let me know more about the number 2 question above. Sorry for the confusion. 

Chris


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## jason3559 (Mar 10, 2004)

cakelly4 said:


> 1. The open cavity portion should be facing into the cartridge in order to retain the oil.
> 
> 2. I'm sorry, but I can't quite picture what you are describing here.
> 
> ...


Hi Chris,

Thanks for the feedback. This was helpful. I was finally able to get time to devote to this rebuild. One point, I am rebuilding a Lev and a Lev Integra.

1. Thanks for the heads up about the correct position of the inner seal on the seal head. Open cavity pointed towards the cartridge. Very helpful. When I replaced the inner seal of the 2nd Lev, the correct positionality was clear and confirmed. In hindsight, I should have checked the 2nd post before asking.

2. My input was confusing previously. After reviewing in more detail (Integra exploded diagram) and using an old, compromised P10 29 mast end sleeve, the issue of the pushrods cap not touching the actuator lever contained within the mast end sleeve is due to the pushrod cap having a larger outer diameter than the inner diameter of the mast end sleeve port, to pass through to touch the lever. I think I need to call KS to discuss, so moving on...

3. Ok, after some dry run mock ups using your advise, I was able to see how far in to place the damper into the cartridge (see photo). I confirmed by measuring the distance from the damper end (pushrod cap end, not including the pushrod cap) to the end of the cartridge outer tube (that has the machined grooves for the brass pins) with the seal head fully threaded in. I then checked the measurement after completing the wet assembly. I'm making a leap of faith assumption here, but I believe that for a 125 mm Lev (which this one is), that distance should be almost ~5 inches (4 and 31/32 or about 125 mm). The picture was taken during dry mock up after full threading the seal head into the cartridge outer tube, being careful not to let the damper rod move while unthreading the seal head.









The dry mock up let me practice placing the damper into the cartridge inner tube in order to get a better feel how to gently rotate and slowly move the damper into place. Previously, I would over insert (if that is even possible), and then react by pulling the damper out (because I thought I over inserted), which would force me to start over because I believe that this compromises the cartridge bleed. I think I realize now that damper insertion distance may not be critical if inserting "too far" in, since the damper will move to the furthest extended position after full assembly upon re-pressurization (but I maybe wrong on that point). More learning for me.

Also, not sure if it my computer or the photo hosting site you placed the instructional photos, but there seems to be an issue with images uploading into post #1.

Thanks,

Jason


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hey everyone. Very sorry for the inconvenience but the original post is currently down due to Photobucket changing their policy suddenly and without any warning. They're now requiring a $400 annual fee in order to allow viewing of those photos on this forum and I'll just tell you now - that's not happening.

It may take me a while to get this back up and running and I apologize for the inconvenience Photobucket has caused. I've included a link to the news article of their sh¡tty move below. Feel free to send complaints directly to them.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40492668

Thanks for your patience
Chris


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## fellsbiker (Jun 17, 2006)

you can host your images on imgur.com for free, and so far they never take them down.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks. I plan to switch to imgur when I have some time. Unfortunately, it's going to take a while to get all my photos back together. Hopefully I still have them all. 

Chris


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## chukt (Oct 17, 2009)

Why not put them in a Gallery here on MTBR?
A community photo gallery - Mtbr Mountain Bike Photo Gallery


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

way off topic. chukt is your avi a 1) nicely posed pink grapefruit 2) bike wheel or 3) a fleshless booby? don't matter what you say, it's a booby. 2012, i saw the human cadaver display and it was quite impressive, daughter thought so too, it was and still might be controversial, but way too cool to pass up.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> Why not put them in a Gallery here on MTBR?


Yeah, when you click the image button in a post's editor window, it gives you the option to upload the photo rather than linking to it. That's what I do with all the service images I post. In my experience, photo storing websites stop allowing linking to images at some point.

I'm in the market for an Integra type post. Currently, I've got a 150mm external KS Lev, and with regular greasing and the occasional oil service when I crash and my post stops working, my post works reliably thanks to this thread!

How is the reliability of the KS Lev Integra with regular servicing? Also, I've read a lot of terrible things about the seat clamp bending and not working. Has anyone found a post they like better and is it user serviceable? PNW Bachelor?



> The best technique to get the IFP back on the tube was demonstrated by "chukt" on page 14 of this thread


Can anyone tell me which page the "socket trick" is on? This thread seems to have gotten shorter somehow because I'm seeing page 9 as the last page.

Thanks as always cakelly4!


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## chukt (Oct 17, 2009)

happyriding said:


> Can anyone tell me which page the "socket trick" is on? This thread seems to have gotten shorter somehow because I'm seeing page 9 as the last page.
> 
> Thanks as always cakelly4!


It is Post #656 on Page 7.
I will edit that socket post since people seem to not get past the Craftsman 10mm when any socket the same diameter will work (or AA battery apparently).

(Had to switch to Linear Display Mode to find that post...see what I learned about forums today!)


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Thanks chukt. I've got a set of Stanley sockets with a 10mm socket. I just don't know if the outside diameter of the Stanley is the same as the Craftsman. Can you measure the outside diameter of your Craftsman socket?


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## chukt (Oct 17, 2009)

happyriding said:


> Thanks chukt. I've got a set of Stanley sockets with a 10mm socket. I just don't know if the outside diameter of the Stanley is the same as the Craftsman. Can you measure the outside diameter of your Craftsman socket?


I measured two different 10mm sockets at just under 14mm. I have two 3/8" sockets that measured close to the same. I measured a AA battery at 14mm too.


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## chukt (Oct 17, 2009)

chukt said:


> A Craftsman 10mm socket is the same diameter as the tube and has rounded edges.
> View attachment 1087593


Any socket 14mm in diameter or less should work. A 10mm or 3/8" socket or a AA battery all are 14mm diam. or less.

:idea:
The key idea here is to compress the inner seal enough to transfer it to the shaft. 
:idea:


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## Neiltaz (Jul 16, 2017)

Hi Chris, I followed this post about 8 months ago to service my cartridge and it worked a treat!!!!! Just came to do it again but all your pics have gone on photobucket and I am unable to view the pics? Any ideas bud? Cheers neil.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

My Lev now has more rotational play and also more fore/aft side/side play. What would I need to replace to get it back to being more solid?

Thanks


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Neiltaz,

The image hosting site that people all over mtbr were using stopped allowing linking to images. I think cakelly4 is trying to get things sorted out. You can try messaging him to see where things stand at this point.

I just remembered, I saved the thread on my computer so that I could refer to it offline while servicing my post on the road. If I want to save a web page (on a Mac), I can choose File>Save As and for the format I can choose webarchive, and my computer downloads all the images, etc. for the page and saves them. I can try emailing the webarchive file to you if you would like. Send me a private message with your email address. Edit: Let me try this. I put the webarchive file on Google Drive, and I sent you a message with the link to the file. I think all you have to do is click on the link, download the file, then use your browser to open the file, e.g. in your browser choose File>Open File then navigate to the file. Nope, if you are on Windows it will be a little more complicated to open the file. See here:

How to Open a Webarchive File on a PC | It Still Works

Also, according to Wikipedia:



> On February 2013, a vulnerability with the webarchive format was discovered and reported by Joe Vennix, a Metasploit Project developer. The exploit allows an attacker to send a crafted webarchive to a user containing code to access cookies, local files, and other data. Apple's response to the report was that it will not fix the bug, most likely because it requires action on the users' part in opening the file.


In other words, Apple's doesn't believe you should be opening .webarchive files from people you don't trust.

scottg,

For the rotational play, you can try replacing the copper guides and the roller bearing inside the seatpost collar (which is a ***** to get out). I used a really long heavy duty screw driver, which I padded with an inner tube, to get enough leverage to pry it out, and I still scratched things up a bit. Even with the really long heavy duty screwdriver, I could only move the bearing minute amounts at a time. A plastic tire lever or a regular sized screw driver did not provide enough leverage for me. For parts, see the bottom of the page here:

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=85105

As for fore/aft play or side to side movement, I don't think that can be internal to the post--after all the post fits tightly in your seat tube, so there can be no movement forward or backward or right to left. That means the movement has to be coming from your saddle clamp. Maybe that's where the rotational play is coming from too? I've read stories about how crappy the saddle clamp is, so some people have been replacing the clamp with a clamp from a $30 seatpost you can buy online. See here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/kindshock-lev-seat-clamp-coming-loose-846454.html

Because the roller bearing is a ***** to get out, and I don't think replacing it helped much in stopping my rotational play, I would try replacing the copper guides and the seat post clamp, then see if you are happy with the results.

By the way, the owner of Slickoleum which markets Slick Honey says that they are the same thing, and you can buy Slickoleum cheaper here:

Order Slickoleum Grease


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## banzonam (Feb 9, 2012)

jason3559 said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. This was helpful. I was finally able to get time to devote to this rebuild. One point, I am rebuilding a Lev and a Lev Integra.
> 
> ...


I THINK that the damper insertion distance is slightly critical, correct me if I'm wrong. For example, assume you push the damper 1" further than where it should be (ie. from the factory). You will have displaced additional oil from the system, allowing a volume for air when you repressurize. Now, when you seal it all back up, the damper would not be able to lock out at full extension as there is air where that 1" of oil should be and at top-out, the saddle would sag 1" when weighted at full extension.

I'd like someone else to confirm this because on my very first attempts to rebuild my post years ago, I over-inserted the damper rod. When I closed it back up, the post would extend to a point but would require a pull to go to full extension, but would sag back down with weight, probably by the amount I over-inserted.

This could be a problem OR as I found out, it could be a feature:
If you transfer your post to a new frame and find out that the seat post is fully inserted into the seat tube, but at full extension, the saddle is just a smidge too high, you could potentially rebuild the post with built-in "sag" that self-limits the max height. I was thinking about doing this to my g/f's post, but doesn't look like I'll need to now (thankfully).

So if anyone wants to experiment with that, I'm interested in your feedback. Or alternatively, are there any other methods of reducing the max extension? I also experimented with swapping in a smaller cartridge. (125mm cart in a 150mm housing gives you ~100mm of drop)


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

....


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Does anyone know of any mods to shim the dropper so it's higher or lower to fine tune the length? There may be an extra 10mm that we can get out of the dropper?


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## bali_kalle (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks for great information. 
But I can't see the pictures in the first post. Any chance to get hold of them? 
Thanks


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hey guys. Just another reminder: The photos are down because Photobucket pulled a dick move and changed policies without warning overnight recently. 

I'm currently working to get the photos back up. It's a time consuming process since all of my photos are in various locations since I created this thread over several months/years. This is compounded by the fact that this is a very busy time of the year for me. I'll have it fully functional again soon.

Please bear with me and thank you for your patience!

Chris


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## fellsbiker (Jun 17, 2006)

imgur.com is good for image hosting.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Alright guys. I tried imgur and it initially failed so I removed my account and went with the MTBR photo option. I was on a roll and then was suddenly reminded why I decided not to go this route 3 yrs ago when I started this thread - too many photos. So the OP is partially complete but I've maxed out the photos for one thread. 

So I went back to imgur. My folder is public and no matter what link I choose, it won't post the photo directly. I can make it so that a link brings you to the photo, but that's not good enough for me. I'm hoping to get the thread back to the original format of having photos directly mixed with the instructions.

Any thoughts? I'm reaching the limit of my patience.

Thanks for any advice.

Chris


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## chukt (Oct 17, 2009)

*Use the BB code*



cakelly4 said:


> Alright guys. I tried imgur and it initially failed ...
> So I went back to imgur. My folder is public and no matter what link I choose, it won't post the photo directly.
> Any thoughts? I'm reaching the limit of my patience.
> 
> ...


MTBR is using Vbulletin/BBcode (here is a forum post describing that)

Imgur has two BBcode export options, linked and nonlinked. All you have to do is copy that code and paste it. Be sure to choose the size of the image at the bottom first before copying the code.

You don't need to use the "Insert Image" function at all. I could not get that to work for anything.

Below is an Imgur BBcode IMG, below that a SmugMug BBcode.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

So am I missing something or is you imgur image not visible? I see the bottom image but not the first one. I tried copying every share link available at Imgur and got either nothing other than the link or an empty box (which is what I'm seeing for your above Imgur image). Is smug mug a similar site? Maybe I need to try that?

Sorry, I'm a bit slow with computers. Thanks for your help. 

Chris


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## chukt (Oct 17, 2009)

cakelly4 said:


> So am I missing something or is you imgur image not visible? I see the bottom image but not the first one. I tried copying every share link available at Imgur and got either nothing other than the link or an empty box (which is what I'm seeing for your above Imgur image). Is smug mug a similar site? Maybe I need to try that?


Weird, I can see the Imgur IMG above in Chrome browser, but not others. Nothing on other devices either.

SmugMug is not free. I would not use it unless you already had an acct there.

This one is Flickr. It is free. Can you see it?

IMG_0914 by dave, on Flickr


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I can see the Flickr one, yes. I saw you mentioned Photobucket but took it down. That's what I had up originally for the past 3 years. But overnight they changed their policy and they all disappeared. They're now requiring a $400 annual fee if I want to get them back to being visible on a forum. EFF. THAT. I may try Flickr. Thanks for your help. 

Chris


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## chukt (Oct 17, 2009)

cakelly4 said:


> I can see the Flickr one, yes. I saw you mentioned Photobucket but took it down. That's what I had up originally for the past 3 years. But overnight they changed their policy and they all disappeared. They're now requiring a $400 annual fee if I want to get them back to being visible on a forum. EFF. THAT. I may try Flickr. Thanks for your help.
> 
> Chris


Yeah, I knew that but it was late. I linked a photobucket IMG and then saw that warning filler and remembered. I am not real smart after the caffeine wears off!

Flickr does seem like a good option.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

I don't understand the whole pic hosting. If it's cuz you don't want to have clutter on computer then just delete em from hd after posting or just post with tapatalk on phone, super easy. I'm on chrome and can't see Chuckt's photo above the cowboy on a fatty either. Chrome on iPad, mac and phone all look the same. So I believe it has to do with 3rd party hosting. Another reason not to use


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I posted the maximum number allowed through the MTBR option. If you look at the OP, they're up and running again. But I have over 30 pics so it won't let me add the rest unless I use a site like Imgur (which as you saw doesn't work) or Flickr (which I will try to do sometime this week when I have time again). 

Chris


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

Never knew mtbr had a pic limit, thx for clearing it up


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## corwyn74 (Sep 12, 2014)

Question - will these LEV always need regular rebuild?

Do some people have LEVs that are reliable for multiple years with no sag, or do I just need to expect to rebuild or buy new cartridge every ~year?

I rebuilt my cartridge following instructions in this post and it lasted several months but now sags about an inch. I raised my saddle an inch to compensate so now I have a 100mm dropper (instead of 125) and it has held at that point for ~year. I purchased a new cartridge but have not installed (figure I can rebuild one after installing the new one), I'm curious if there is much chance of the new cartridge lasting or if I need to expect to rebuild next year...


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Alright everyone. The original post and follow-up roller bearing replacement is back up and running. I apologize for the delay getting things going again. A lot of work was put into the first post and my original photos were all over the place.

I double-checked everything but please let me know if anything seems to be out of sorts. 

Thanks,
Chris


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## Tim22 (Sep 11, 2010)

Thanks cakelly4 for all your hard work over much time. One of the best how to threads of all time!!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You're welcome. And thank YOU. 

Chris


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## caste (Dec 5, 2014)

Stripped down and rebuilt my saggy Lev. A massive thank you to Chris, it has been pretty easy with your guide.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Hey all, does anyone know if you can replace the stanchion for the ks lev? Mine has some bad scratches in it because I left the roller bearing go too bad for too long. I see I can source new bearing. But anyway to replace stanchion?
Thanks!

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I don't believe anyone sells anything that's inside or part of the cartridge/oil pressure stick. Would be really nice if they did because then it'll be easier to rebuild it and have more KS Lev fans/users. I don't think scratches or gouges in the stanchion will effect operation. If there is a sharp edge it can damage the DU bushing and wiper seals but you can sand that down. The only way is to buy a new cartridge for $80.


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## wreckingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

Does anyone know of a place to get a new housing body? I have a lot of side to side rotational play and I have already replaced the lower bushing guides as well as a new hydraulic cartridge. Its about 4 years old so I'm sure that's where the play is coming from. However, I have search exhaustively online and found nothing.


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

The Australian importer has them, try whoever the importer is in your area.


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## wreckingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

Boom King said:


> The Australian importer has them, try whoever the importer is in your area.


Thanks for the reply BK. This would be easier if all the links on KS's site weren't broken. :madman:

I'll give them a call today and see what they say.


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

wreckingrob said:


> Thanks for the reply BK. This would be easier if all the links on KS's site weren't broken. :madman:
> 
> I'll give them a call today and see what they say.


Let us know how you go?


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## wreckingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

Boom King said:


> Let us know how you go?


Hey BK,

I called KS and was told that the mast isn't sold privately, but offered instead that my rotational wiggle is from a worn roller bearing, one of the few pieces I have not replaced. I placed an order for one today and will update the thread once I install it.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yeah, it's super easy to do and I have instructions in the next post after the main post. One thing I modify is that I now lay the post horizontally in the soft jaws so that the portion housing the roller bearing is approximately 1 cm away from the edge of the soft jaws. That provides a soft jaw fulcrum to lean the tire lever against and pry the bearing out easier.

Also KS is finally making some changes if anyone is interested: https://m.pinkbike.com/news/kindshock-re-boots-entire-lev-dropper-post-line-eurobike-2017.html

Chris


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## driven916 (Jul 24, 2009)

Thanks to everyone for contributing great information to this thread. I just did a re-grease service on my wife's Lev 27.2 because it wasn't returning to full extension. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to help. At this point it almost seems to be better just to swap out the entire cartridge rather than tearing down the existing cartridge to swap the oil and have to deal with re-pressurizing. Does anyone know if the newer 27.2 cartridges are improved over older versions? This is an older Lev and I already warrantied it once for the same problem (first one arrived DOA not extending fully). I have the gold-colored cartirdge, will the newer black cartridge fit? Thanks!


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## wreckingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

cakelly4 said:


> Yeah, it's super easy to do and I have instructions in the next post after the main post. One thing I modify is that I now lay the post horizontally in the soft jaws so that the portion housing the roller bearing is approximately 1 cm away from the edge of the soft jaws. That provides a soft jaw fulcrum to lean the tire lever against and pry the bearing out easier.
> 
> Also KS is finally making some changes if anyone is interested: https://m.pinkbike.com/news/kindshock-re-boots-entire-lev-dropper-post-line-eurobike-2017.html
> 
> Chris


Thanks Chris, I got the roller bearing part of the way out using that method, but had to hold the mast and a rod with an angled end in one hand, and hit it with a hammer to get it to pop the rest of the way out. My soft jaws are meh. More importantly, it did indeed fix the unwanted rotation in the seat.


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## banzonam (Feb 9, 2012)

Is there a guide/manual/pictorial out there how to disassemble a 1st gen integra? I'm bleeding the cartridge for a friend and have never seen this one before. Thanks!


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Hi guys,

Had a go at rebuilding my Lev's cartridge today, using the fantastic instructions in this thread. Unfortunately, it was not 100% successful. I was wondering if someone here could help identify what I did incorrectly and/or what is wrong, based on the current symptoms? ->

After sealing up the cartridge alone, seemed 100% firm with the bench test. However, upon full re-assembly, from full extension, the stanchion will drop a couple of millimetres before becoming firm. It will then sag slightly under pressure - maybe 1-2mm. Using the remote it returns to full extension, but with any pressure, you get a repeat of the above. I tried the full rebuild twice, with the same result.

Any ideas? 

The IFP came off at one point, but I got it back on without dramas using the 10mm socket method. Doesn't seem damaged. I also struggled a bit getting the damper rod to the correct height before tightening the cartridge end cap. Could it/the IFP be too far down causing these issues?

NB: this on an older externally routed 30.9 KS Lev 125mm


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

My first thought would be that something is off about your Kevlar cable or your external remote cable. Sometimes one or both get a little hung up therefore partially activating the post and allowing it to sink some under weight. 

Try disconnecting the external cable from the junction box and sitting on the saddle. Does it still sink? If not, it's your external cable. 

If it does, remove the bottom cap of the LEV, disconnect the Kevlar cable from the actuator, reassemble, and try sitting on the saddle. Does it sink? If not, your Kevlar is likely the problem.

Then report back and we can trouble shoot some more. 

Chris


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Thank Chris. I had a go at both those tests, but no luck. 

I decided to measure the exposed stanchion and there's only around 120mm (instead of 125mm). I can manually pull it out out until topout, but it won't go that far itself, neither with the external cable and/or kevlar cable connected, or without. Initially, it would suck itself back in to its preferred height (120mm), but after a few manual extensions it lost that sucking force and will now stay at full extension (after pulling it out) until you place the lightest pressure on it.

Maybe the reason it initially felt firm via bench test after the cartridge rebuild was that it wasn't at full extension then either (probably at 120mm, as per above). I depressed the actuator whilst pumping it up, as suggested in the guide, but as is the problem now, this may not have produced full extension.

I wonder what I've done wrong? Maybe there's a seal that isn't playing nicely.


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Okay, I've had a win. Decided to try the cartridge rebuild one last time. What I did differently:

1) Set the IFP depth by screwing in the cartridge end cap, rather than using a ruler
2) Once the stanchion + outer tube are filled with oil to the bottom thread, tap vigorously to get all bubbles to surface
3) Submerge damper rod in oil up until first line of holes, and depress actuator several times before closing, to remove all air
4) Insert damper rod with cartridge end cap down as far as it will go, rather than sliding it down and threading after damper rod at correct depth
5) Be exceptionally careful to not push damper rod too far - once the cartridge end cap starts threading, that's it.
6) Check the length of damper rod exposed beyond cartridge cap - if the post is at full extension, I get about 126mm on my 125mm dropper post. If you have less than this, (after pumping with air and pushing the actuator), don't even bother re-assembling the post. It's not right. 

All advice from Chris and others in this thread. I guess they are alternative methods to try if the basic steps don't work for you.

The only issue that remains now is that with the external remote attached, the post won't stay down. I guess my internal kevlar cable has shrunk or come out of place slightly, so the extra tension from the remote claw around the barrel is enough to engage the actuator even when remote is released.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice. Sounds like you did all the things I came here to suggest. The other possibility that may be causing your post not to stay down is air trapped between the cartridge and the black outer casing if you forgot to purge it. The KS video demonstrates this but here's how. 
1. Place the LEV in full extension in your soft jaws. 
2. Unthread the bottom cap just 1-2 mm
3. Activate the post and depress it all the way
4. While it's still down, tighten the end cap

After this, you should be good to go. If you already did this, then you may be right about the Kevlar - it may be getting hung up. 

Chris


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## maui400 (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi guys,
I just bought my first dropper post (LEV integra 125). Unfortunately the post seems not in perfect condition as I bought it used. It sinks about 1/2" when pressing it. My assumption is that there is air in the oil chamber. What do you think?
On my search for a solution I found this thread which seems the only useful source regarding LEV repairs. Since english is not my first language I struggled with step 12: "Next, replace the valve assembly and the metal tube with the IFP on it." 
Does it really mean to buy those parts new because they can't be fixed? I hope I misunderstood ;-) .

Torsten (from Germany/Black Forest)


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## Lambo1 (Sep 22, 2017)

Thanks Chris, I successfully followed all of the steps. Wrapping an inner tube around the shaft and putting it in the soft jaw,worked great for removing the actuator assembly. Something about the friction of those inner tubes! 

So on reassembly, step 14b,I inserted the actuator assembly too far and did not have full motion. I broke it all down and re did it. This time I cross threaded the cap (totally ignored your caution note). Do you know the thread size? I can run a die down it but need to know the size. The inside diameter measures 22mm. 

I hit up two of my local bike shops, one guy was insisting on buying a buying a patch kit for his tubeless tires, another was in there to fix a flat . They said try HD. So no luck. Help would be appreciated.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

maui400 said:


> Hi guys,
> I just bought my first dropper post (LEV integra 125). Unfortunately the post seems not in perfect condition as I bought it used. It sinks about 1/2" when pressing it. My assumption is that there is air in the oil chamber. What do you think?
> On my search for a solution I found this thread which seems the only useful source regarding LEV repairs. Since english is not my first language I struggled with step 12: "Next, replace the valve assembly and the metal tube with the IFP on it."
> Does it really mean to buy those parts new because they can't be fixed? I hope I misunderstood ;-) .
> ...


I can see how that would be confusing. When I say "replace" I mean to put those parts back together. It's another way of saying reassemble. I hope that helps and sorry for the confusion. Good luck!



Lambo1 said:


> Thanks Chris, I successfully followed all of the steps. Wrapping an inner tube around the shaft and putting it in the soft jaw,worked great for removing the actuator assembly. Something about the friction of those inner tubes!
> 
> So on reassembly, step 14b,I inserted the actuator assembly too far and did not have full motion. I broke it all down and re did it. This time I cross threaded the cap (totally ignored your caution note). Do you know the thread size? I can run a die down it but need to know the size. I hit up two of my local bike shops, one guy was trying to buy a patch kit (for his tubeless tires), another was in for an inner tube change. They said try HD. So no luck. Help would be appreciated.


Not sure of the thread size. If you didn't strip it too badly, you may still be able to salvage it. I've had a few times where it started to cross thread and I dismantled the cartridge entirely so I had just the outer shell/stanchion and the cap. I then screwed the end cap on upside down. I threaded it on and off a few times this way, then tried threading it on normally with success. After that, I reinstalled the internals and got it to thread on fine. If that doesn't work, there's always the option of purchasing a new cartridge. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

Chris


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## Lambo1 (Sep 22, 2017)

it goes on upside down and it goes on without the o-ring. The o-ring puts it in just the right spot for the x-thread. 

I got out my calipers, looks like 1 thread per mm. Amazon has a 22M x1.0 die for $9. I will report back. 

I told my wife that if I can't fix it best case is $85 for a new cartridge or $300 for a new dropper. I've been left in peace since....


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I’ve experienced that in the past as well but persistence and repeated gentle attempts resulted in it eventually threading on. Just something to consider before tapping. In either case, good luck and keep us posted. 

Chris


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

cakelly4 said:


> Nice. Sounds like you did all the things I came here to suggest. The other possibility that may be causing your post not to stay down is air trapped between the cartridge and the black outer casing if you forgot to purge it. The KS video demonstrates this but here's how.
> 1. Place the LEV in full extension in your soft jaws.
> 2. Unthread the bottom cap just 1-2 mm
> 3. Activate the post and depress it all the way
> ...


Thanks Chris. I've tried purging air from behind the end cap a few times using that technique, but no joy. I guess the problem is related to the kevlar. The good news is after dealing with the cartridge, all this feels like a walk in the park!

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. For sure. I will say that I was very happy when I got an internally routed bike and I could finally switch to the Integra. I have the Kevlar adjustments perfected but they’re still just a pain in the a$$. 

Chris


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## maui400 (Sep 22, 2017)

All right! What a difference a day makes. This morning I didn't know anything about seatposts. Now I not only figured how they work, I also disassembled and rebuilt a faulty one. But the biggest part is that the post works now flawlessly . The issue with the sag of 1/2" is solved most likely due to air in the oil chamber. Now I just hope that I tightened everything correctly so that air and oil won't emerge again.

A good hint also was the note in 13b about the partially unthreaded damper assembly. When I checked mine I found just this.
Thanks also to *rhyolite*. His description about the reassembling of the cartridge was very helpful.

I owe you one guys! :thumbsup:


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## Lambo1 (Sep 22, 2017)

Lambo1 said:


> it goes on upside down and it goes on without the o-ring. The o-ring puts it in just the right spot for the x-thread.
> 
> I got out my calipers, looks like 1 thread per mm. Amazon has a 22M x1.0 die for $9. I will report back.
> 
> I told my wife that if I can't fix it best case is $85 for a new cartridge or $300 for a new dropper. I've been left in peace since....


So... the rethreading die won't arrive until mid October, and I was too proud to just buy a new gas cartridge.

I looked at the cap and the threads on the body and made corresponding marks where the threads started. After a few minutes of finesse, I got the cap to thread in correctly. There was a small metal shaving that came off which was part of the gummed up thread.

I found a few techniques for step 14, when you insert the actuator back in... Don't fill it all the way up with oil, the actuator valve takes up space, just get it slightly over what you need. Also if you brace your hands on each other, then slightly wiggle the actuator when you push it in, you can keep from jamming it in too far (spraying oil across the room).

So it all went back together and now I have zero sag. Thanks Chris!!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Awesome!! I’m glad to hear you got it up and running. 

Chris


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## FastDad (Sep 22, 2017)

Thank you so much for this thread!!! 
After reading it I was able to repair the malfunction on mine LEV...the inner valve didn't close and so the post was moving all the time. 

Recently I bought a i7...now I'm looking for advices how to change the oil and dial the air pressure.


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

I'm still having trouble getting my Lev to function properly after a rebuild.

Without the remote attached, it stays fully extended and firm. However, once the remote claw is attached, it goes up and down like a pogo stick, even when the remote isn't depressed. This is still the case even with the remote barrel adjuster backed completely off. So with the remote cable completely slack, and the kevlar barrel in the external routing box as far up as it will go with the claw attached.

This made me think the internal kevlar had shrunk - so even with no tension at all, it was still depressing the actuator. However once I measured its length from the bottom of the post to the barrel, as noted in the KS video when installing new kevlar, I got 17.5mm. It's meant to be 15mm, so it's actually too long! This makes no sense to me. Help?!


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## caste (Dec 5, 2014)

I have another LEV, a second gen Integra. It has a bit of forth-and-back play, is there any way to fix it? Sorry if the question has already been answered but I couldn't find it..


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

caste said:


> I have another LEV, a second gen Integra. It has a bit of forth-and-back play, is there any way to fix it? Sorry if the question has already been answered but I couldn't find it..


They all have a perceptible wiggle but if your's is more pronounced, it could be the 3 bronze guide bushings (long, skinny rods) are worn. Super easy fix. If their wear is prominent, you might consider replacing the DU bushing, too.


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## caste (Dec 5, 2014)

Oh My Sack! said:


> They all have a perceptible wiggle but if your's is more pronounced, it could be the 3 bronze guide bushings (long, skinny rods) are worn. Super easy fix. If their wear is prominent, you might consider replacing the DU bushing, too.


Thanks, I wanted to be sure that the fix is the same for rotational play.. will replace guides and DU bushing aswell, just to be safe.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

rhyolite said:


> I'm still having trouble getting my Lev to function properly after a rebuild.
> 
> Without the remote attached, it stays fully extended and firm. However, once the remote claw is attached, it goes up and down like a pogo stick, even when the remote isn't depressed. This is still the case even with the remote barrel adjuster backed completely off. So with the remote cable completely slack, and the kevlar barrel in the external routing box as far up as it will go with the claw attached.
> 
> This made me think the internal kevlar had shrunk - so even with no tension at all, it was still depressing the actuator. However once I measured its length from the bottom of the post to the barrel, as noted in the KS video when installing new kevlar, I got 17.5mm. It's meant to be 15mm, so it's actually too long! This makes no sense to me. Help?!


Sometimes, the claw will be attached to the barrel in the junction box and look normal BUT the barrel is actually rotated in such a way that it's essenetially winding up the Kevlar cable and therefore partially activating the post despite being in the correct position in the box. I solve this by placing a glob of slick honey in the junction box to prevent binding and usually use a small Allen key to rotate the barrel into a more relaxed position.

If that's not happening, then I'd replace your cable. It's possible that it indeed IS too long but getting tangled in the mechanism under the bottom cap therefore partially activating it.

Good luck and let me know how it goes.

Chris


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks very much for that Chris. I'll have a go next week and let you know how it goes.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## tadrscin (Jul 13, 2005)

Thanks for the post. My wife and I each have a LEV and so far I've replaced 2 cartridges (I have access to QBP so I get them at cost). I kept them as they at least work in a pinch as a 4" dropper instead of a 6". Now I plan on servicing them after reading this post. My question is regarding the DU bushing. I'm currently using one of the original gold cartridges on my post which is sagging. I just received a new black cartridge and the DU bushing does not slide along the stanchion easily once it gets past the point where the grooves for the guide bushings end. After that it's very difficult for the DU bushing to slide along the stanchion. That same DU bushing is working fine on the older gold cartridge that I'm currently using. I have new DU bushings on the way, but I was wondering if anyone has seen this before? This is the first time I've had one of the new black cartridges. Also, how much fork oil is needed per cartridge?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I’ve had one cartridge where a DU bushing felt tight on it compared to another cartridge and they were both gold ones. It’s weird but I suspect it’s similar to a chain and chainring wearing together. A new DU bushing for the new cartridge solved it. 

I don’t typically measure oil levels but it’s usually around 20-30 mls maximum. 

Chris


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## tadrscin (Jul 13, 2005)

Thanks for the info. I figured a new DU bushing would solve it and I'll only order a 4 oz bottle of fork oil. I should have everything I need by Friday to service the cartridges. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

cakelly4 said:


> Sometimes, the claw will be attached to the barrel in the junction box and look normal BUT the barrel is actually rotated in such a way that it's essenetially winding up the Kevlar cable and therefore partially activating the post despite being in the correct position in the box. I solve this by placing a glob of slick honey in the junction box to prevent binding and usually use a small Allen key to rotate the barrel into a more relaxed position.
> 
> If that's not happening, then I'd replace your cable. It's possible that it indeed IS too long but getting tangled in the mechanism under the bottom cap therefore partially activating it.
> 
> ...


Some fantastic news - I've got it going. Couldn't find any twists or issues with the kevlar but one way or another as Chris mentioned it had to be the problem. So I pulled it out and created a properly measured replacement with fishing line and bingo - it worked. Now if only I didn't have to pull the post apart again to replace the fishing line with new kevlar. If it was a keeper rather than a sale job would be mighty tempting to leave it in there.

By the way, and I'm sure this is mentioned somewhere in the thread - to reuse the barrels and pellets, applying a little heat using a cigarette lighter softens the pellets enough to allow the kevlar to pull through. Mine were no worse for wear after this and still provided a proper hold on some very thin fishing line for the trial above.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice! And yeah, I hold the barrel with needle nose pliars and heat it up with a small torch, then slide a small Allen key through the hole to get the old pellet out of there.

I’m glad it worked out for you and thanks for the update!
Chris


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## tadrscin (Jul 13, 2005)

*Success*

Thanks again Chris for the instructions. I just successfully rebuilt 2 of the older gold cartridges. They both went pretty well. The hardest part was getting the IFP back on the tube. I damaged 4 new as well as the original seal trying to use both a 10mm socket as well as a AA battery. I could never get either one to get past the seal without tearing it up. I ended up just going with your original method and, using a small screwdriver, very carefully "tucking" the seal onto the outside of the tube while applying gentle pressure on the IFP with my thumb. I was able to do in about 2 minutes this way what I couldn't do in nearly an hour trying the "easier" method. The 2nd one went just as easy.

The only other part that took some time was threading the cartridge cap back on. I'd practiced doing it prior to inserting it for the final assembly and had great success by doing the standard unscrewing it to get it to drop into the threads and then threading it on. I could distinctly feel when the threads were engaged properly every time until it was time for the final assembly with the oil. Apparently the oil dampened it enough that I couldn't feel the engagement anymore. It took maybe 30-40 tries before the threads engaged properly, but I was able to get both of them done and working properly.

I did find a great tool for holding the shaft while removing the actuator. It's a pair of soft jaw vice-grips that are used for disassembling ballpoint pens.







Locking soft-Grip Pliers for Pen Dissemb - WoodTurningz

I have a friend that has a failing LEV with a black cartridge, but I have been unable to get the cap off of his cartridge. I can't imagine that KS uses any thread locker if they're assembling them in an oil bath, but I went ahead and heated up the end of the cartridge anyway which didn't help. I did notice that on his old, and my new, black cartridges, there is a very small hole about 1mm in size on that end of the stanchion that looks to possibly have a set screw in it. The problem is that the hole is so small that I can't really tell what it's for. It does seem to be too close to the end to be a set screw as it looks like to would hit the threads on the cap unless KS is using a new cap with fewer threads. I can understand why KS would use a set screw though. On one of the gold cartridges that I rebuilt, the end cap had come a little loose and there was very little oil left in the cartridge. Most was in the end cap on the mast. I know you've said that you've rebuilt at least a few of the black cartridges so I was wondering if you've come across this.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Glad you got them up and running. And wow, those pliers are pretty cool. 

I have repaired a bunch of black and gold cartridges and have not come across that divot before. I have come across several cartridges including my own that have started to back out, causing failure, so I agree that it may be to prevent that from happening....or to prevent tampering. Haha. I did see a Pinkbike article that reported on KS finally upgrading their design with better internals more resistant to failure but if your friend’s post was older (and failing), I’d imagine that’s not related. I do wonder if they’re starting to do that to all of them now though. It would certainly make a rebuild less possible.

Any chance that’s a spring loaded pin that you could depress with a paper clip while simultaneously unthreading? Just a thought. I’d love to see one in person but I’ve stopped offering the repair since replacement cartridges are less expensive than shipping and paying me to repair. I just repair mine and friends’ LEVs now. I may purchase one of the new LEVs when they’re available just to test it and if it fails, tear it apart for educational purposes. 

If you solve how to open your friend’s LEV, I’m definitely interested to know how. 

Thanks for the great info

Chris


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## tadrscin (Jul 13, 2005)

His is a little over a year old so it'll have to go to KS for service. I tried to push in whatever is in that hole, but that didn't do anything. The brand new black cartridge that I just bought also has that same hole so it looks like they're doing it to all cartridges now. I'll have to wait until that one fails to try and take it apart. Of course if they did make improvements it may be a long time until it fails. I have 3 of the gold cartridges(the 3rd is still in my wife's post) so I'll always have one spare ready to go when mine or my wife's fails so I'm good there. Still, I'd like to figure out how to get one of the newer black cartridges apart. If my friend's wasn't still under warranty, I'd be tempted to try and drill out whatever is in there.

Yeah those pliers are awesome. No more worrying about scratching that tube when working on these posts.


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

tadrscin said:


> ...
> I have a friend that has a failing LEV with a black cartridge, but I have been unable to get the cap off of his cartridge. I can't imagine that KS uses any thread locker if they're assembling them in an oil bath, but I went ahead and heated up the end of the cartridge anyway which didn't help. *I did notice that on his old, and my new, black cartridges, there is a very small hole about 1mm in size on that end of the stanchion *that looks to possibly have a set screw in it. The problem is that the hole is so small that I can't really tell what it's for. It does seem to be too close to the end to be a set screw as it looks like to would hit the threads on the cap unless KS is using a new cap with fewer threads...


I saw that on my friend's cartridge when he serviced it (using tips from this thread). That's mechanical thread lock (pit into threads) to prevent "user infrigement" (i.e. serviceability ). Drill it out carefully with a drill a bit larger than the hole to "unlock" the cap. My friend did so and successfully removed the cap w/o damage and serviced the cartridge.


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## tadrscin (Jul 13, 2005)

Thanks for the info. Did he fill up the hole with anything, or just leave it as is?


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

He left it as is, it doesn't affect anything.


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## J6y (Mar 11, 2017)

Has anyone carried this procedure out on a Lev DX? Any differences? I'm just getting the typical 1/2 drop and its doing my head in on climbs.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

The cartridge is the same. Difference is how you position the direction your saddle points. On the LEV, you can adjust that angle without dismantling the post. On the LEV DX, you’ll need to pay attention to the saddle clamp direction before you dismantle so you can set it back the way you had it when reassembling. 

Chris


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## J6y (Mar 11, 2017)

Thank you Chris! I was trawling the web to try and find that out. Thanks for the awesome write up also..



cakelly4 said:


> The cartridge is the same. Difference is how you position the direction your saddle points. On the LEV, you can adjust that angle without dismantling the post. On the LEV DX, you'll need to pay attention to the saddle clamp direction before you dismantle so you can set it back the way you had it when reassembling.
> 
> Chris


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## tadrscin (Jul 13, 2005)

PeterG said:


> He left it as is, it doesn't affect anything.


Thanks


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## chrishya7711 (Nov 19, 2017)

Hi Chris just want to say thanks for an awesome guide! Bought a bike with a very tired KS let Integra and was thinking of spending out on a reverb or sending the KS away for a service. Came across this guide, I now have an as new post working perfectly again. Muchly appreciated!!!!!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Very glad to hear this got you up and running and saved you from buying a new dropper. 

Happy riding!
Chris


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

chrishya7711 said:


> Hi Chris just want to say thanks for an awesome guide! Bought a bike with a very tired KS let Integra and was thinking of spending out on a reverb or sending the KS away for a service. Came across this guide, I now have an as new post working perfectly again. Muchly appreciated!!!!!


What he said! Excellent process. Post better than new with 5 weight oil.

Greatly appreciated.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Awesome! Glad this thread is still helping people out. 

Chris


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

The post I just tried to rebuild for a friend has the lower nut that you have to us a set of spanners on has been staked into place. I've done a couple of my own and the nut would easily come off. It looks like the factory used a punch to hold the nut in place making it impossible to remove.

His post is relatively new and developed the normal little bit of slack at the top of its travel. Just needed a quick bleed but it can't be taken apart.


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## tadrscin (Jul 13, 2005)

terrible said:


> The post I just tried to rebuild for a friend has the lower nut that you have to us a set of spanners on has been staked into place. I've done a couple of my own and the nut would easily come off. It looks like the factory used a punch to hold the nut in place making it impossible to remove.
> 
> His post is relatively new and developed the normal little bit of slack at the top of its travel. Just needed a quick bleed but it can't be taken apart.


I'm guessing it looks like the one I have pictured here:
http://forums.mtbr.com/components/ks-lev-diy-cartridge-rebuild-899659-9.html#post13395824

According to this post you can just carefully drill it out. I haven't tried it myself yet, but that person did successfully:
http://forums.mtbr.com/components/ks-lev-diy-cartridge-rebuild-899659-9.html#post13398896


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

tadrscin said:


> I'm guessing it looks like the one I have pictured here:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/components/ks-lev-diy-cartridge-rebuild-899659-9.html#post13395824
> 
> According to this post you can just carefully drill it out. I haven't tried it myself yet, but that person did successfully:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/components/ks-lev-diy-cartridge-rebuild-899659-9.html#post13398896


Awesome info there, thanks much!


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Turns out they do this to the oem version.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I put a new black cartridge in my Lev and I’m going to rebuild the gold cartridge do I can rotate them. The one question I have is that the new cartridge I have is really sluggish. It’s slow to drop and slow to rise. It has about 200psi in it. Anyone had this and got tips on resolving it?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

If it’s a standard LEV rather than Integra, check your Kevlar cable tension. If it’s standard or Integra, check your DU bushing. If it doesn’t slide very well, that could be the culprit. Also check your external cable tension, obviously. That’s all I got for you right now. Let us know what you find. 

Chris


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Thanks. It'll be a week before I can check now, off on Christmas Vacation.....

Oh, and it's a LEV.


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## wvn (Jan 6, 2018)

Hi,

I know this is about the LEV, and the thread helped me revive mine. But is there anyone which can help me with my i950? It looks like the valve which controlles the oil flow doesn't close. In other words, I can drop and raise the post without actuating the lever. I pulled everythin apart, cleaned everything, put it back together buit nothing changed. Now I am not sure how the valve is supposed to close itself. Th spring on top of the valve seems to only push the actuator knob back up. Any thoughts are appreciated.


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## groo_pachon (May 30, 2016)

Hi,

Need help. 
I have Lev Integra which now there's oil leak through actuator but it still function properly, no sag and don't stuck. 

May I rebuild to fix oil leak or just change o-ring/seal at bottom cap of oil cartridge?

Thanks, 
Phatchara


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hard to understand where you’re seeing oil leaking from. If it’s coming from around the actuator area and there’s no other issues, it could be one of the following:

1. Your cartridge end cap is starting to back out. If so, you can unthread the actuator from the bottom and push on the saddle to expose the inner shaft. From there, you can usually see if that end cap looks like it’s backing out. You can also sometimes reach it with a spanner to tighten it. Or just remove the cartridge and tighten it. If this is the case and you lost some oil, it will likely begin to have some issues in the near future. 

2. You may just be seeing melted slick honey and/or dirty water dripping from the bottom. If that’s the case, you may just need to do some basic service without opening the cartridge. 

Keep in mind that if you open that cartridge to replace a seal, you’ll need to do the full rebuild at that point. 

I hope this helps. Let me know how you make out. 

Chris


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## groo_pachon (May 30, 2016)

cakelly4 said:


> Hard to understand where you're seeing oil leaking from. If it's coming from around the actuator area and there's no other issues, it could be one of the following:
> 
> 1. Your cartridge end cap is starting to back out. If so, you can unthread the actuator from the bottom and push on the saddle to expose the inner shaft. From there, you can usually see if that end cap looks like it's backing out. You can also sometimes reach it with a spanner to tighten it. Or just remove the cartridge and tighten it. If this is the case and you lost some oil, it will likely begin to have some issues in the near future.
> 
> ...


Thank you Chris. 
This mean I can not open end cap to fill oil? Seem like the best way is full rebuild right?

Phatchara


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

That is correct.


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## sctbke (Dec 27, 2017)

Does anyone near Denver have the tools to re-build a lev? Living on a college campus doesn’t leave me access to anything, but I’d hate to throw away a cartridge if there’s really nothing wrong with it. Would be willing to pay for your time. Send me a message if so. 
Thanks!
Scott


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## mnemonic (Nov 12, 2009)

hello, first of all, I'd like to thank you for this perfect guide. Everything is described and seatpost is working (KS LEV Integra) ... BUT unfortunately it didn't resolve my problem  When I sit on the bike, seatpost goes down whithout activating remote control. First of all I tried maintenance from KS video... nothing. Then I tried tips from this post, seatpost works well (smoothly goes up and down, there is no sag, "saddle nose" moves less), but it's still dropping, when I sit on the bike. I found a picture with piston in the inner tube and there is a spring in it (image attached). I just assembled the seatpost and I don't know what to do now. Has anyone some experience with this issue? sorry for my english


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## mnemonic (Nov 12, 2009)

OK, problem solved. It was realy in that piece on the picture. I used allen key to get the top cap down, then I tried to extend a spring inside. After this procedure I assembled my seatpost and it's working better than new one...Maybe it will help someone


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

got a non cartridge rebuild question and as this seems the most active lev thread figured i'd give it a shot.
anyone have any specs on the actuator spring for the lev integra models? mostly looking for a rate as i can match up the length, etc with the current. i'm looking to get a stronger spring for more resistance at the lever.
i've email ks a few times about different things but never get any replies.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

^^I'd guess that's gonna be a real tough tidbit of info to get out KS. Seems if you can match the dimension, perhaps trial & error is the path till you get to where you want to be.


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

Oh My Sack! said:


> ^^I'd guess that's gonna be a real tough tidbit of info to get out KS. Seems if you can match the dimension, perhaps trial & error is the path till you get to where you want to be.


yea i figured which is why i thought i'd ask here, but taking the existing to a hardware store and doing some in hand comparisons is probably where i'll end up.


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## Tommybees (Dec 25, 2014)

I was having trouble getting the threads to engage (took way too much time fiddling) and might have some helpful comments for others. Please edit as needed any add to procedure if warranted. This help me immensely.

So before adding oil...
Install IFP flush with end of IFP shaft.
Remove end cap from damper shaft and screw into post to set the depth of the IFP perfectly.
Tap shrader valve to release pressure from IFP movement.
Unscrew cap, place on damper shaft and move to the end.
Add oil to top of IFP shaft.
Install damper shaft and by only putting pressure on the cap insert until it stops.
While depressing activator pin, press cap to threads (do not press damper shaft) and screw into final position.

Hope that helps.


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## Maine_Rider (Jan 23, 2011)

Thank you!!! Just rebuilt my hydraulic side - got air in the oil on a cold, winter ride. KS recommended against performing this procedure - FYI. Unserviceable - buy new. Will see how it works over time.

I only replaced non-static seals (all the quad rings). The one inside the end cap (threaded side on hydraulic cylinder) was a pain to remove.... used a exacto knife, stabbed it and pried it out.

My only comment is be careful with unscrewing the hydraulic side if it's mixed - you can't bleed all the air out and it will "pop".

Also - I tried a trick for removing the DU busiing. A razor can be inserted as a "wedge" between housing and bearing to initially loosen the bearing for easier removal.

My only comment on the directions is to make clearer the reinsertion length for the oil piston. Was not clear to me if I was supposed to have the top of the "gold rod" level or the bottom. I figured it out.... but had to do it twice.


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## advancedrescue (Jun 19, 2017)

Man I’m trying to read thru all these post, and I’ll continue over the next day or two. But in the meantime figured I’d ask.

I have the ks thirty integra that came on my trek I purchased last July. When I put weight on the saddle(not engaging the trigger) the dropper goes roughly 1/2 an inch in. When I take my weight back off the saddle(again without engaging the trigger) it comes back up.

So first off, will this guide from op on page one apply to the KS ethirty integra? And if so will me going thru all the steps and servicing it correct it? Or should I just contact KS, or trek?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Sorry, but the e30i is not going to be serviceable aside from replacing the disposable cartridge inside it. That post blows my mind. KS really made themselves look bad by having so many bikes go out with that turd sandwhich on it. 

I’d recommend purchasing a new post. There are a lot of better options out there. Check out the Bike Yoke Revive for starters. 

Chris


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## advancedrescue (Jun 19, 2017)

Thanks, I’ll atleast contact them and see if I can get a new one out of them. The bikes is less than a year old, or perhaps trek will replace since they are the ones who put it on there.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Chris...or anyone else with the info...

I just got a LEV272 in and I'm not doing a rebuild on it but I am just replacing the cartridge and have the new ones here. This is my first dismantling of the LEV272 which is essentially a DX type post with external routing. What I am finding on initial disassembly is the pushrod is NOT a tapered rod like every-single-other LEV I have ever dealt with in the past. The pushrod cap is typical of all units and is designed to slide over a taper end of the pushrod. There are NO tapered ends on the rod I have pulled out of this thing. Haven't checked with the owner yet to see if he's had it apart before this but I find it very odd. The schematic available is for a 2018 only and this one is a couple years old at most. The schematic shows the typical tapered pushrod so if that's what "should" be in there, I want to get one in there before I return it.

Any thoughts?!

*EDIT: NEVER MIND! Checked BTI and the LEV272 shows a straight, untapered pushrod so forget it...I'll keep moving on! *


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## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

Anyone run into this? I have a 5 year old (yes, I know, probably past the end of it's life) KS LEV. If the bike has been upright for a day or two the seat post will not go down. If I flip the bike over for a few hours, and then bring it right side up and try again, the post will function as normal for the next day. 

Sounds like I need to do the rebuild?


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## wreckingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

zeppman said:


> Anyone run into this? I have a 5 year old (yes, I know, probably past the end of it's life) KS LEV. If the bike has been upright for a day or two the seat post will not go down. If I flip the bike over for a few hours, and then bring it right side up and try again, the post will function as normal for the next day.
> 
> Sounds like I need to do the rebuild?


So the next time it does this remove the post from the bike, remove the end cap and manually push the activation lever. Mine, too, is over 5 years old and despite proper maintenance and a fresh coat of grease the lever/push rod gets a little stuck and requires this little push start at the trail head.


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## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

wreckingrob said:


> So the next time it does this remove the post from the bike, remove the end cap and manually push the activation lever. Mine, too, is over 5 years old and despite proper maintenance and a fresh coat of grease the lever/push rod gets a little stuck and requires this little push start at the trail head.


Well that's interesting, thanks for the tip. Have you done the rebuild and this still happens? I did the rebuild (following Chris' directions) about two years ago after I rode in some really cold weather and the post started sagging. Since then I've just done the regular cleaning/maintenance (following KS youtube videos).


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## wreckingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

zeppman said:


> Well that's interesting, thanks for the tip. Have you done the rebuild and this still happens? I did the rebuild (following Chris' directions) about two years ago after I rode in some really cold weather and the post started sagging. Since then I've just done the regular cleaning/maintenance (following KS youtube videos).


I have not rebuilt the post since this started happening, no. There is no sag or any indication this is related to the internals other than the lever and push rod. I'll note further that there is a good amount of sticktion when I need to manually activate the leaver. Enough that the thumb lever can't overcome it. Afterwards, its all good, until its not again.


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## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

Thanks wrecking bob. I'm going to take my post apart and do the rebuild when I have time. I'm wondering if the piece that the long push rod "pushes on" that is getting stuck? The rod in my post moves freely.. I'll let you know what I find out when I get around to it.


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## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

Well I know what my problem is, the piston (shown in mnemonic's post #22 of this page) is getting stuck. Problem is I don' know how to open that part up like mnemonic did without damaging anything? I can't get a grip on shaft part that is strong enough where it won't slip as I turn the piece with the hex wrench. If I can open that up and clean it I'm assuming it will solve my problem.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I typically wrap a very thick piece of rubber (strap wrench rubber for example) around the silver shaft and grab it with channel locks, then use an Allen key to remove the damper cap. Be very careful. The silver part is very soft. 

Chris


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## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

Chris, that worked, thanks.

However I screwed something up putting it all back together. After assembly, the post worked, but had a ton of sag (probably could get it to compress 50% with my weight on it). It also did not feel smooth. I'm assuming I screwed up in putting everything back together and there is air trapped in the system. I was also a complete moron and shook the oil (thinking it's been sitting for a while and needed to be mixed? I dunno, I'm an idiot) and so when I poured it in, I of course saw tons of bubbles. This of course didn't click until I had everything back together and the post was sagging. (It was not sagging before I took it apart).

Oh well, gonna try again tonight after work.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

zeppman said:


> Chris, that worked, thanks.
> 
> However I screwed something up putting it all back together. After assembly, the post worked, but had a ton of sag (probably could get it to compress 50% with my weight on it). It also did not feel smooth. I'm assuming I screwed up in putting everything back together and there is air trapped in the system. I was also a complete moron and shook the oil (thinking it's been sitting for a while and needed to be mixed? I dunno, I'm an idiot) and so when I poured it in, I of course saw tons of bubbles. This of course didn't click until I had everything back together and the post was sagging. (It was not sagging before I took it apart).
> 
> Oh well, gonna try again tonight after work.


:lol: You shook the oil?! Bro, it's not Yoohoo.

Just redo it and pay very close attention when you insert the mechanism into the oil while holding down the actuator. And for God's Sake, Man....don't shake the oil! :lol:


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## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

Lol, I know man... There was beer involved, it was late, and I was tired... I knew it the second I put the seat post back in the bike and sat on it...


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

LOL. Props for fessing up to shaking the oil. Like I always tell myself: let’s try that again but better. Haha. Let me know how the redo goes. 

Don’t forget that you can test for sag before you reassemble the entire thing, after you’ve closed the cartridge and recharged the air. Just try to compress it against your work bench. 

Good luck,
Chris


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## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

Round 2 was a success. No sag and smooth operation. It will be a day or two before I know if the stuck piston issues is fixed though..


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Nice! Keep us updated. 

Chris


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## thegallery (Jul 27, 2005)

*Supernatural trigger died*

Hi All, I have an old Supernatural that was working well the past year even though it sat for probably 3 years on top of the extensive use I gave it initially. Now just the trigger has failed and it won't lock out. (Actually it's like it's triggered all the time.) Cable and the actuator seem OK and I don't think the mechanism is jammed.

Is this something I can repair? Should I send it in for a rebuild?

With all the options out there now and with it's age I'm not sure I should put any money into it. It may be time to retire it?


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

my post's actuator rod/end cap are not extending as far as they should. when I release the lever, the rod/cap extends about 1/2 as far as it should. if I had to guess, there's something wrong with the spring in the lower right corner of this pic.



I can't figure out how to disassmeble that piece though. are the steps outlined somewhere? any idea where I could get a replacement spring?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Post #939 of this thread discusses that. You may just need to clean that damper out and actuate it a few times after you take it apart. It gets gumed up sometimes. Good luck. 

Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

thegallery said:


> Hi All, I have an old Supernatural that was working well the past year even though it sat for probably 3 years on top of the extensive use I gave it initially. Now just the trigger has failed and it won't lock out. (Actually it's like it's triggered all the time.) Cable and the actuator seem OK and I don't think the mechanism is jammed.
> 
> Is this something I can repair? Should I send it in for a rebuild?
> 
> With all the options out there now and with it's age I'm not sure I should put any money into it. It may be time to retire it?


The SN is a PITA to work on in all honesty. My wife had one for a while and I ditched it for a LEV instead. You could try dripping some oil onto the piston that the actuator compresses because it may be stuck.

If you get a new dropper, be sure to check out the Bike Yoke Revive.

Good luck,
Chris


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## bdealva (Aug 12, 2015)

Thank you for the detailed post! My KS Lev DS had about 3/16" loose vertical play that had gradually increased over the last six months. By loose, I mean it rattled when riding over bumpy ground when I was not on the seat! I pulled the post the other day ready to follow the procedure to purge air from the actuator. After pulling the post I discovered the bottom cap (shown in Christopher's first photo) was unthreaded by 3-4 turns. I tightened the bottom cap and lo, the vertical play was gone! 

I am a little surprised that I have not come across reports of this same condition in all the posts I've read or in talking with KS customer service. I assume the sag that results from air in the actuator post is easily distinguished from the vertical play due to a loose bottom cap. However if one is not aware that both conditions can result in vertical play, one might miss the very simple fix for the loose bottom cap!


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Those two conditions are very discernable. The hydraulic issue is a very pronounced hydraulic "squish" that occurs only when one weights the seat. The other you speak of tends to be a looseness and the rattle that you speak of. Generally, significantly different between the two. You might check your 3 guide bushings to make sure that aren't worn excessively during the period of slack.

Good thing you caught it on your's before things were damaged!


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## xaviervs (May 22, 2018)

*Isolator Pellet Substitute*



cakelly4 said:


> "Isolator Pellets" This is bean bag filler - they're a little big but you can easily snip them down smaller with wire cutters to get the size you need:
> Darice Bean Bag Filler Plastic Pellets, 16 oz: Crafts : Walmart.com


Hey Chris,

Instead of buying a whole bag of bean bag filler, I've found that using wire cutters to snip little pieces from a nylon screw works really well as an isolator pellet workaround. 6/32 seems to be the perfect size where the threads don't catch inside the barrel but still fills it up pretty well. They're 25 cents at the hardware store and you can get a bunch of pellets out of one screw.









When snipping off the end of the screw, definitely go small. Too big and the grub screw will stick out. The perfectly round pellet on the right is the true "ks isolator pellet" purchased from Art's cyclery for a size reference.

Thanks for the awesome tips,
Xavier


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

bdealva said:


> Thank you for the detailed post! My KS Lev DS had about 3/16" loose vertical play that had gradually increased over the last six months. By loose, I mean it rattled when riding over bumpy ground when I was not on the seat! I pulled the post the other day ready to follow the procedure to purge air from the actuator. After pulling the post I discovered the bottom cap (shown in Christopher's first photo) was unthreaded by 3-4 turns. I tightened the bottom cap and lo, the vertical play was gone!
> 
> I am a little surprised that I have not come across reports of this same condition in all the posts I've read or in talking with KS customer service. I assume the sag that results from air in the actuator post is easily distinguished from the vertical play due to a loose bottom cap. However if one is not aware that both conditions can result in vertical play, one might miss the very simple fix for the loose bottom cap!


Nice catch and glad it fixed easily for you. That issue is actually discussed somewhere fairly early on in this forum but it's easy to see how one may miss that. There's been a crazy number of posts on this thread. Thanks for posting a reminder.



xaviervs said:


> Hey Chris,
> 
> Instead of buying a whole bag of bean bag filler, I've found that using wire cutters to snip little pieces from a nylon screw works really well as an isolator pellet workaround. 6/32 seems to be the perfect size where the threads don't catch inside the barrel but still fills it up pretty well. They're 25 cents at the hardware store and you can get a bunch of pellets out of one screw.
> 
> ...


That's an awesome tip! Thanks!!

Chris


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## prosto_mtb (Jan 7, 2017)

Hello everyone.
Sorry for not reading whole thread, since its so large.

I've had enough with my lev slowness and replaced stock oil (must be something like 5wt) with RockShox 2.5wt.

Speed of post is now excellent, but week later i've noticed oil leakage from bottom of the cartridge. Looks like oil is too thin, which makes it able to go past seals.

Is there anyone with similar problem?
Are there any methods to fix this?

Is it even worth fixing, or it is no go with 2.5wt?

Thanks


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I’ve used 5, 7, 10, and 15 weight oils and have had no such problem. Return speed is good with all of them as well. I would replace the seal on the cartridge end cap if that’s where you are seeing the leakage. If you can’t pinpoint where the leakage is coming from, be sure to thoroughly inspect the slots on the cartridge where the copper guide bushings reside. I’ve seen a couple cartridges with a pinhole in one of those slots that slowly leaked oil and lead to eventual failure. Had to replace the entire cartridge in those cases. 

Good luck
Chris


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Just an observation and experience on that subject. I have had _numerous_ now, newer posts that began squatting and ultimately leaking into the seat post tube. Again, very recent generation posts never having had work done on them. I have gone in and done complete rebuilds on these, including the inner U-type seal, of course, which is the only expensive seal of the whole group at about $5 a copy. In relatively short order, those posts have all trickled back into my hands with slower but continued leaking from the end cap. I was quite baffled at this having done precise work on the unit and running out of locations or possibilities of why they leak.

This led to some very close scrutiny and examination after abandoning these cartridges and just replacing them with what costs me $58 bucks for a new one. I noticed a very significant difference in the quality of the original U-type seal. They are all urethane unlike all the other seals in the unit. The original seal has always proven to be a very rigid, un-pliable seal which caught my attention when comparing them to the new seal that I was installing which, though still somewhat rigid simply by design, was a lot more pliable and soft as you would expect from a seal's mating surface. Further inspection had me with a magnifying glass studying the damper shaft that the seal reacts upon and the shafts in all my testbed occasions have had what I would refer to as a "shitty anodizing coating" that if looked at closely as I am, you can see faint streaks of wear in the anodizing. Very, very hard to see with the naked eye but if you get it in the sun and understand what to look for, there it is and that's on top of what I would consider some substandard anodizing that again, observing at many angles in good light, you will see through the anodizing as if they just barely blessed these damper shafts in the bath when the coating is applied.

Bottom line, a shitty chinese U type seal is wearing the **** out of the damper shaft allowing the oils of ANY viscosity to bypass that seal interface and replacing the seal adds a slight degree of fix for a very short period of time but the reality is the damper is done, rendering the system a "Leaky piece of ****" in technical terms.

So, in conclusion and in my opinion, if you have a leaker, don't even consider a rebuild. Go straight to a new cartridge for <$60 and be done with it. If you have a squatter, by all means take the 30 minutes to make it right with $6 worth of seal replacements and enjoy another year of smooth, trouble free operation.


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## prosto_mtb (Jan 7, 2017)

Looks like it's finally time to save up some for Revive.
Thanks Oh My Sack!


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

prosto_mtb said:


> Looks like it's finally time to save up some for Revive.
> Thanks Oh My Sack!


I'll stick with the easily serviced LEV so when you go Revive, send me your LEV!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hahaa. I have a Revive on one of my bikes and I must say that it’s pretty bomb proof. Also easily serviceable (not that’s it’s been needed yet) and the “Revive” feature is pretty awesome. It’s not a bad way to go. 

Chris


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

are the glide rings (the white smooth rings on the shaft) of the ks lev or ks lev dx 'standard' sized? aside from the o-rings, has anyone ever had the chance to change them?


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

J6y said:


> Has anyone carried this procedure out on a Lev DX? Any differences? I'm just getting the typical 1/2 drop and its doing my head in on climbs.


if you look at the exploded view, most parts are interchangeable actually:

http://www.kssuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/2018-LEV.pdf

http://www.kssuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/2018-LEV-DX.pdf

There's a subtle physical difference in the cartridge, which contributes to how the saddle clamp assembly is rotated. Look at the top and bottom parts of the cartridge.

I think changing the seal collar and housing cap assembly can essentially make a lev dx look like a lev


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## welshmike (Aug 6, 2010)

Just took apart a LEV DX and found the damper/piston has snapped off the inner tube. Does anyone know where I can get these parts?


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

Universal cycles

Sent from my SM-J250G using Tapatalk


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## welshmike (Aug 6, 2010)

spyghost said:


> Universal cycles
> 
> Sent from my SM-J250G using Tapatalk


Thanks for the suggestion, but, they don't seem to carry these parts. I can't find anyone that does.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

welshmike said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but, they don't seem to carry these parts. I can't find anyone that does.


With such easy availability of new cartridges, it would seem the small internals are a bit tough to find. Personally, I'd just roll with a fresh cartridge and be done with it. No seals, oil, or labor to make it happen.


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## LoneWolf8o (Jul 28, 2013)

Hi everyone, this is a great thread. Have a question about my LEV272 I didn't see answered on all the pages, or I missed it. What length do you cut the inner Kevlar line at for the LEV272?

I saw the KS LEV Service video that explains to cut the inner Kevlar line at 15mm but is it the same for the LEV272?

I ask because I replaced it without seeing the video first (didn't know their was one) and it looks like I did mine around 17mm. See attached photo.

Mine works perfect but I'm wondering if its wrong? I feel if I did it at 15mm the valve would be open a little (without it being engaged) and the seat would sink if I sat on it.









Thanks for any info


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## dapiedro (Jul 27, 2018)

First of all, thnx for this DIY manual!! 
I used it on my 2nd gen LEV integra.
The sag issue looks like resolved... but... With the correct pressure the post ony can go up and down for about 1,5 inch.. (Without sag) I can pull it to full length but then it bungies back. I can't figure out what I am doing wrong and all the parts look OK. 
Any help please?


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Sounds like you have an issue with the damper valving. Did you have any issues when you placed the damper rod into the oil bath? That can be a tricky process. It sounds like the valving isn't actuating correctly and not allowing the oil to bypass the valve when opened as the seat extends therefore creating a suction.

My recommendation is pull it off the bike, take the bottom cap off, put the saddle clamp portion on a protected surface and try manually releasing the actuator (I use a 3mm hex wrench as a lever) and compressing and releasing and see what result you get, actively bypassing all the cable actuator apparatus. If you still have an issue, tear it down and redo the assembly process paying VERY close attention to placing the damper rod back into the oil bath. Double check the process in the photos and instruction section at the beginning of this thread. You HAVE to press the actuator rod while placing the damper in the oil to allow oil to bypass through the valve as you carefully and very slowly fit the mechanism into the oil bath. STOP as soon as the gold damper rod is just below the level of oil. That can be the tricky part as once it starts to go in after careful manipulation, it wants to go in quickly and too deep. (I know, that's what she said. :lol


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## prosto_mtb (Jan 7, 2017)

I think it's IFP bottoming out in the lowest part of seatpost too early.
I've experienced similar issue when U seal at bottom was leaking oil.


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## LoneWolf8o (Jul 28, 2013)

Any help with my question? 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

LoneWolf8o said:


> Any help with my question?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


My thoughts, roll with it since it's working. The 272 is treated pretty much like the LEV DX so 15mm is the cut length. For some slightly extraneous info, where it differs significantly is its cartridge make up. Don't bother attempting a cartridge rebuild on it as this thread depicts because the cartridge doesn't allow for easy air recharging. There is very little info out there on the subject and since I get cartridges for about $60, I won't waste my time on a rebuild attempt. I have a 272 that works beautifully on my Karate Monkey SS aside from being a slow return...which all 272's are afflicted. I have a brand new cartridge sitting here waiting for the day when mine gives up the ghost. I "might" try a rebuild just for giggles if I get good and drunk but that doesn't happen much, if ever so don't hold your breath for a right up! :lol:

I'm gonna stab a guess that your 17mm measurement is functioning as a condition of your adjuster up at the actuator noodle. A couple twists outward would take up that slack and allow it to work. When I set up the units I do, I generally tighten that adjuster to it's limit, then back it off a couple turns so I can account for a bit of shortness but it allows me to add tension to the housing if that's necessary. Your's may have just been adjusted perfectly for your situation and that's why it works but again, 15mm IS the cut length as I recall.


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## dapiedro (Jul 27, 2018)

Oh My Sack! said:


> Sounds like you have an issue with the damper valving. Did you have any issues when you placed the damper rod into the oil bath? That can be a tricky process. It sounds like the valving isn't actuating correctly and not allowing the oil to bypass the valve when opened as the seat extends therefore creating a suction.
> 
> My recommendation is pull it off the bike, take the bottom cap off, put the saddle clamp portion on a protected surface and try manually releasing the actuator (I use a 3mm hex wrench as a lever) and compressing and releasing and see what result you get, actively bypassing all the cable actuator apparatus. If you still have an issue, tear it down and redo the assembly process paying VERY close attention to placing the damper rod back into the oil bath. Double check the process in the photos and instruction section at the beginning of this thread. You HAVE to press the actuator rod while placing the damper in the oil to allow oil to bypass through the valve as you carefully and very slowly fit the mechanism into the oil bath. STOP as soon as the gold damper rod is just below the level of oil. That can be the tricky part as once it starts to go in after careful manipulation, it wants to go in quickly and too deep. (I know, that's what she said. :lol


Thank you Oh My Sack!

I confirmed that the problem is not the actuator / cable/ lever, so I will redo the assembly of the cartridge soon!
Am am using W15 oil by the way, this cant be the problem according to earlier posts

Do I have the push the acuator rod all the way down , or just until the damper valve is under oil level?

Sorry I m (not a native english speaker) not sure I understand the part "just below the level of oil. That can be the tricky part as once it starts to go in after careful manipulation, it wants to go in quickly and too deep." 
Does this mean that oil is not allowed to go into the golden tube of the damper?


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## LoneWolf8o (Jul 28, 2013)

Thanks, I set the adjuster barrel to what the hand book said to before doing anything. But I get what your saying how you can use it to fine tune how it works with were you end up making the length to.

I got a extra line to do it over but I agree with you, i should leave it alone if its working. Its actually shooting up really fast and making that ping sound when it stops at full extension lol. Must have found the sweet spot.


Oh My Sack! said:


> My thoughts, roll with it since it's working. The 272 is treated pretty much like the LEV DX so 15mm is the cut length. For some slightly extraneous info, where it differs significantly is its cartridge make up. Don't bother attempting a cartridge rebuild on it as this thread depicts because the cartridge doesn't allow for easy air recharging. There is very little info out there on the subject and since I get cartridges for about $60, I won't waste my time on a rebuild attempt. I have a 272 that works beautifully on my Karate Monkey SS aside from being a slow return...which all 272's are afflicted. I have a brand new cartridge sitting here waiting for the day when mine gives up the ghost. I "might" try a rebuild just for giggles if I get good and drunk but that doesn't happen much, if ever so don't hold your breath for a right up!
> 
> I'm gonna stab a guess that your 17mm measurement is functioning as a condition of your adjuster up at the actuator noodle. A couple twists outward would take up that slack and allow it to work. When I set up the units I do, I generally tighten that adjuster to it's limit, then back it off a couple turns so I can account for a bit of shortness but it allows me to add tension to the housing if that's necessary. Your's may have just been adjusted perfectly for your situation and that's why it works but again, 15mm IS the cut length as I recall.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

LoneWolf8o said:


> Thanks, I set the adjuster barrel to what the hand book said to before doing anything. But I get what your saying how you can use it to fine tune how it works with were you end up making the length to.
> 
> I got a extra line to do it over but I agree with you, i should leave it alone if its working. Its actually shooting up really fast and making that ping sound when it stops at full extension lol. Must have found the sweet spot.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Wow! you're lucky your's is a fast rise. Most I have seen are typical rather slow in comparison to the any of the units we can adjust pressures.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

dapiedro said:


> Thank you Oh My Sack!
> 
> I confirmed that the problem is not the actuator / cable/ lever, so I will redo the assembly of the cartridge soon!
> Am am using W15 oil by the way, this cant be the problem according to earlier posts
> ...


Pay very close attention to THIS part in the photo as well as the install of the IFP a few photos above where this one came from.









You have to actuate the rod at this point to open the valve while you slide it in. Once the silver valving is in the oil, STOP just as the gold rod is very slightly below the oil level. It's a tricky process keeping the rod depressed and carefully inserting against the tightness of the seals. I have had to do this step numerous times in one sitting because it finally pops in and goes in to far. At this point, you stop and close it up by threading the end on and tightening with a spanner. It's possible at this point to air it up to maybe 50 psi or a bit more and check it for correct operation. If it's not working correctly at this point, something is wrong.

Hopefully this explains it a little better and reduces confusion.


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## dapiedro (Jul 27, 2018)

Oh My Sack! said:


> Pay very close attention to THIS part in the photo as well as the install of the IFP a few photos above where this one came from.
> 
> View attachment 1209959
> 
> ...


Yessss! No it's completely clear to me! 
(Also the last phrase in your first reply ?)
And it worked! All the travel and no sag!
Tomorrow test ride..

Thank you very much!!


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## LoneWolf8o (Jul 28, 2013)

Oh My Sack! said:


> Wow! you're lucky your's is a fast rise. Most I have seen are typical rather slow in comparison to the any of the units we can adjust pressures.


I believe it has to do with the tension I set on the kevlar string. My first attempt I made sure the line was "tight" when attaching the string to the barrel that goes to the linkage arm that rest on the push rod end cap. I had it all routed as I tightened the barrel but notice afterwards the swing arm was ever so slightly resting on the push rod end cap and the string wasn't that "tight" at rest. But figured that's how its supposed to be. But when I went to test it I noticed it wasn't snappy like my other reverb dropper. It felt under powered like it always felt a little but this time a little worse. I thought the valve maybe wasn't being opened enough because the kevlar string stretched as I've heard happens with time.

I checked the barrel adjustment at the handle bars to get max travel in the little black box on the side of the seat post. I noticed if I took the cable off and manually grabbed the barrel that's attached to the kevlar string and pulled on it the seat would shoot up like a rocket. So that made me think it wasn't engaging the valve enough.

So I decided to try and take up the little slack on the line and redo it with a new line and barrels. This time I engaged the swing arm a little (as if it was engaging the mechanism that opens the valve) and tightened it there. Doing it that way the line is very tight and I'd say there is actual pressure, not a lot but very little pressure on the push rod end cap in its resting stage. I was worried the valve may be open slightly and I would get a slow drop sitting on it during extended rides, but I have not run into this problem, at least not yet. I've also let it sit with the seat all the way down to see if it would creep up in time and it hasn't.

Basically I think they needed more throw in the system. Think that box on the side of the seat post where your cable hooks to the barrel that attaches to the kevlar string should be 1 to 2mm longer so you can get more travel with the cable and in doing so more travel threw the kevlar string. Since we can't change the box design, I figured I'd try to get as much travel as I could to that valve threw making sure that kevlar line was really tight.

Hope I explained this in a way others can understand.

BTW, I've had this dropper since 2014.


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## dberndt (Apr 17, 2010)

Just posting a note here for the 27.2 Lev owners trying to re-pressurize their posts.

I used a slightly modified 20 gauge 3ml syringe like so: Glue Syringes - Lee Valley Tools

Grind a bit of a bevel onto the blunt syringe tip using a diamond stone or similar then with a bit of force against the fill hole it should fill reasonably well. Fill the 14mm recess with some spare oil so you can see if you're having success getting air into the post or if you're just making bubbles.

Also I don't think you need to do all the work to get this adapted to a shock pump. The needle is ~47mm stroke from 3ml to 0ml markings, so that's a surface area of .63cm^2 or .097 square inches, which gives the syringe user a roughly 10:1 advantage, so 1psi of syringe plunger force generates 10psi. 25lbs should give around 250psi. It's not exact, but I think we're mostly looking for post feel/speed not some exact number. It will take a fair number of syringes full of air to reach reasonable pressure in the post, but I didn't find it particularly challenging to do so once I had a bit of practice.

Hopefully this makes this slightly easier for some.


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

What just happened ??
during a ride, i felt that my KS LEV stopped working (didn't want to go up) and remote works suspiciously light, after touching the saddle and trying to move it up, i felt to resistance and i saw a bit of oil (and some strange noises), i knew that's the end...

at home, it looks like inner rod detached itself from cartridge ? something snapped or just unscrewed ?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

The damper assembly at the end of that rod snapped off. I’ve seen that 2 other times. Warranty the post if you can. If you can’t, you’ll need a new cartridge. 

Good luck
Chris


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

last rebuild (new cartridge) was more than 2y ago, so i guess no warranty...


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

That’s a bummer but also a pretty long span between issues for the LEV so at least you got good use out of it. If you did the previous cartridge swap yourself last time and still have the old cartridge, you could always use the damper and rod from the old one to rebuild your current one. If not, at least cartridges are less expensive than an entire post and the swap is pretty easy. 

Good luck!
Chris


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## sethd513 (Jun 12, 2016)

Question slightly off topic. I serviced my Ks 150 integra today and after it was put back on I could hear some loud noise that’s wasn’t there before. Prior to this service it sounded almost bare or not lubricated. Then after the service the noise sounded more like air. Then after about 5 minutes it started to sag. I took off the dropper to double check what happened. I felt like I didn’t tighten the end cap actuator assembly well enough so maybe that was it. It turned out that the threads had snapped inside the cartridge end as I was re tightening it. Fortunately I was able to get the threaded piece out. 

Now do you think the issue was from the loose endcap threads? Did it break because it wasn’t tight enough? I ordered the replacement parts I needed in hopes that the cartridge wasn’t the issue OR became an issue because of what Happened to the end cap. Any help would be great. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I did want to add that I can feel the sag if I put my finger on the Cartridge rod End and push on the seat.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Take the cartridge out and with it in full extension, try compressing it against your work bench. If it doesn’t sag, your cartridge should be fine. That’s always the easiest way to trouble shoot if the cartridge is the problem or not.

Good luck
Chris


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

I just finished rebuilding my Lev with a whole new cartridge, new bushing, new seal head and new internal string. I forgot to order isolator pellets but did the hack mentioned above and used cut pieces of the nylon screws mentioned above, which seems to work just fine. The action, both up and down, seems kinda slow, especially teh return..actually havent used it in six months or so so dont really remember if thats normal. the internal string is tight with the actuator arm touching the push rod, the string is in the pulleys, and the exernal cable is adjusted tight. I have the southpaw lever and new housing on order, maybe thatll help. Anyone have any ideas?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Check that the pressure is set at a minimum of 150 psi. I typically set mine to 200 psi and you can go as high as 250 psi. 

Also, I sound like a broken record, but I always suspect the Kevlar cable tension when things are slow or inconsistent. Even a difference of 1 mm length can make a pretty big difference. If you have extra cable to play with, that’s where I would start if pressure isn’t the solution. 

Make sure the new DU bushing slides freely on the cartridge as well. That’s all I can think of for now. 

Good luck
Chris


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Psi is 225. inner cable tension was perfect before i put on the cap, i checked it a few times. Maybe the new bushing and cartridge need to break in?


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

LoneWolf8o said:


> I believe it has to do with the tension I set on the kevlar string. My first attempt I made sure the line was "tight" when attaching the string to the barrel that goes to the linkage arm that rest on the push rod end cap. I had it all routed as I tightened the barrel but notice afterwards the swing arm was ever so slightly resting on the push rod end cap and the string wasn't that "tight" at rest. But figured that's how its supposed to be. But when I went to test it I noticed it wasn't snappy like my other reverb dropper. It felt under powered like it always felt a little but this time a little worse. I thought the valve maybe wasn't being opened enough because the kevlar string stretched as I've heard happens with time.
> 
> I checked the barrel adjustment at the handle bars to get max travel in the little black box on the side of the seat post. I noticed if I took the cable off and manually grabbed the barrel that's attached to the kevlar string and pulled on it the seat would shoot up like a rocket. So that made me think it wasn't engaging the valve enough.
> 
> ...


 I wonder if a quick hack would to be to remove (or cut in half) the little return spring in the junction box, that spring bottoms out with several millimeters left in the box. Theres also a return spring in the cartridge right? When i press that piston just with my finger, it does spring back. this would open up the full stroke of the junction box. Would anything bad happen without that spring? I may experiment with this before I readjust the string tension.
Edit: just realized, duh, there a peg inside the spring, which also bottoms out when the spring does. wonder if maybe cutting that off would work. The junction box seems poorly designed, need more throw and adjustability.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Yeah, when i just manually pull on the barrel at the junction box, action is fast. Even though the actuator lever is butted up against the piston and string tight, I guess thats not good enough, like someone mentioned above make it a bit tighter so theres actually a bit of pressure on the piston when no engaged. Poor design with not enoug throw.


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## LoneWolf8o (Jul 28, 2013)

In theory I get what your saying about cutting the spring. I dont have my bike to look at right now but do remember when u engage it the spring does become fully compressed and in a way limits more travel. I would definitely not remove and use no spring but maybe cutting a coil will help. Personally I feel you would be better off finding a sweet spot like I did. Only thing is it may turn into a trial and error thing before you get it right. Which can end up costing you money in replacement string or those little pellets that go in the barrel. I'd suggest maybe only lightly tightening it enough so you can confirm it's in a ideal spot before cranking it down all the way. 

Image the string should be tight kind of like a guitar string. How I used to have it the spring would feel like there was no tension on it when u touched it, even though looking at it it looked like there was no play. How it is now you can feel the string is under light tension. If that makes sense to you.

BTW, Mine is still shooting up fast and theirs no creeping going on meaning it's not sinking or going up by itself unless I engage the lever.

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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Well, I fixed the slow return speed. With a hack. The kevlar string did not have enough tension, even though the actuator arm was snug against the piston. Instead of redoing teh string and barrels, I wrapped some thick sturdy 1/4" wide tape around the arm where it contacts the piston, about a millimeter thick or so, to fill up the space more, until the tension was perfect. Worked like a charm! See how it holds up long term, i can always add more, or do a new string when im less lazy.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm trying to replace the cartridge on my LEV Integra. I can't figure out how the lower seat clamp removes from the old cartridge. Does it thread on or is it a tapered friction fit (i.e. like a crown race)? I can't figure out how to remove it. Thanks.

BTW, I rebuilt my cartridge (just new oil, no seals yet) that developed 1/2" sag and no sag now (at least not on the bench)


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

neons97 said:


> I'm trying to replace the cartridge on my LEV Integra. I can't figure out how the lower seat clamp removes from the old cartridge. Does it thread on or is it a tapered friction fit (i.e. like a crown race)? I can't figure out how to remove it. Thanks.


it's not tight mounted (like crown race), however when there is a bit of dirt, it could 'bond' a bit, just play with it a bit, you could hit it with a rubber hammer on both sides in turns. no thread or anything else there


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

It also tends to get deformed so that it pinches the cartridge. I second the rubber mallet technique (actually I often use a plastic dead blow hammer). As a heads up, when you attempt to place it back on the new cartridge, it may be a little difficult but I learned a great technique for this:

1. Slide the collar on to the cartridge as far as it will go. 
2. Line the front and back up properly. 
3. Place the cartridge in the rubber jaws of your bike stand vertically, then loosen the jaws enough so that the cartridge is being suspended from the jaws by the clamp head.
4. Place the lower saddle clamp plate on the cradle of the cartridge to provide a flat surface. 
5. Whack that surface with a dead blow or rubber mallet to “press” the collar into position on the cartridge. 

Chris


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## LoneWolf8o (Jul 28, 2013)

dwyooaj said:


> Well, I fixed the slow return speed. With a hack. The kevlar string did not have enough tension, even though the actuator arm was snug against the piston. Instead of redoing teh string and barrels, I wrapped some thick sturdy 1/4" wide tape around the arm where it contacts the piston, about a millimeter thick or so, to fill up the space more, until the tension was perfect. Worked like a charm! See how it holds up long term, i can always add more, or do a new string when im less lazy.


I never tried it but you may want to look into a cheap "feeler gauge" at a auto parts store. Pick one of the thicknesses you think you will need and either crazy glue it or and make tabs that will keep it in place. I'd have to guess the tape will not work for long. You can also try different materials like maybe cutting a soda can.

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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

....or just make the cable tighter. It’s a lot simpler. 

Chris


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## LoneWolf8o (Jul 28, 2013)

I agree but the comment was to the member using tape in the mean time. 

People need to realize there is a chance you won't be able to readjust the tension without needing a new barrel or string. So if you're in a jam and don't have those replacement parts on hand this is also a option. 

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## Dillsue (Oct 28, 2015)

Brilliant thread here. Thanks for making the effort to compile such a useful guide. Just rebuilt my lev integra and the sag has gone, hopefully for good. 

Ive not read evety post so apologies if Im repeating things but heres some tips that may be of use.

To get the IFP back onto the 14mm tube I cut the plastic nozzle off a silicon sealant tube to make a cone so that the wide end was 14mm. Grease the nozzle and push it into the IFP to spread the seal. Use the 14mm tube to push the plastic nozzle through the IFP and the IFP seal just slips onto the tube as the nozzle and tube pass through.

To hold the seat post steady use an old handle bar stem and hold the stem in a vice. 31.6mm and 31.8 are close enough to hold the post securely

To hold the 10mm cartridge tube take 2 bits of plywood/ MDF 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick roughly 2 inches square. Put the 2 wide faces together and clamp securely. Drill an 11mm hole centred on the join in the 2 pieces. Separate the pieces and youll have a semi circular slot along the face of each piece. Wrap a piece of inner tube round the 10mm tube so its only 1 layer thick. Sit the bits of wood either side of the inner tube and clamp the lot in a vice. Should hold it nice and tight.

On earlier integras the mast end piece that screws into the seat post and the cartridge tube and that the cable attaches to, had a weak threaded piece that screws into the 10mm cartridge tube. This easily snaps off if you tighten as in the KS service video. This is best hand tightened and nipped up very gently with further 1/16 turn. I followed the KS video and sheared mine off! When the replacement came the hole through the threaded section was smaller making the threaded section stronger. Youll need to buy an updated cap for the release rod as later ones are smaller to fit through the revised mast end piece.

Hope that all makes sense and useful


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## larry08 (Apr 27, 2008)

Thanks to all who've posted on here. I was wondering if anybody else has found it near impossible to get the end cap back on in step 14b? I insert the push rod to the proper depth and go to thread on the end cap, but can't even get the threads started because it's hydraulically locking the oil once I get the o-ring against the stanchion. I try pushing down on the valve but that's not really much help at all. My post is a lev dx 125mm FWIW, any input would be appreciated.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

larry08 said:


> Thanks to all who've posted on here. I was wondering if anybody else has found it near impossible to get the end cap back on in step 14b? I insert the push rod to the proper depth and go to thread on the end cap, but can't even get the threads started because it's hydraulically locking the oil once I get the o-ring against the stanchion. I try pushing down on the valve but that's not really much help at all. My post is a lev dx 125mm FWIW, any input would be appreciated.


Are you using a good spanner wrench on the fitting? I agree, it can be tough to get the threads to bite and you have to be cautious of cross threading but I use a Park Tool #2 Spanner that locks into the fitting well and allows even pressure to be applied to prevent cross thread. One thing I do is actually rotate the thread in the wrong direction (anti-clockwise) for a half turn until it indexes level and usually immediately engages correctly upon turning clockwise.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

Anyone here uses the elbow adjuster? I find the placement weird whether it's on the left or right of the brake lever clamp. Placement is worse as I ride with levers nearly horizontal.

I might end up with a shifter style remote...









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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

I used it for a couple years without issue but now I run the KS Southpaw which eliminates use of the noodle. I'd recommend a Southpaw, especially the newest version. I've converted all my bikes over to it. They are very reasonably priced considering some of the ridiculous prices the newer aftermarket remotes are being priced!


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## larry08 (Apr 27, 2008)

Oh My Sack! said:


> Are you using a good spanner wrench on the fitting? I agree, it can be tough to get the threads to bite and you have to be cautious of cross threading but I use a Park Tool #2 Spanner that locks into the fitting well and allows even pressure to be applied to prevent cross thread. One thing I do is actually rotate the thread in the wrong direction (anti-clockwise) for a half turn until it indexes level and usually immediately engages correctly upon turning clockwise.


Thanks for the reply, I figured out why it wouldn't thread. For some reason, I was thinking the bottom out bumper went inside of the cartridge, so that was preventing the cap from threading. Guess that'll teach me to follow directions better lol... Post is working great now!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I second what Oh My Sack said. I also have had a few that were difficult and definitely had to keep the actuator depressed while threading it. Make sure to do a dry run with no oil to be sure the threads aren’t already damaged. 

I also seem to recall one or two LEVs where I ran into this and ultimately had to reuse the old o-ring rather than the new one. The specs SHOULD be identical and I can’t explain this but if you swapped the o-ring, you may want to try with the old o-ring once if you’re still struggling. 

Good luck and let me know how it goes. 

Chris


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## Soulslide2 (Oct 10, 2018)

Hi,
can somebody tell me something about the last KS LEV SI. I have a problem to open the cartridge. At the bottom of the inner tube there is a small hole where I think is a kind of safety pin. At the moment I can not open this pin and also not open the lock cap at the bottom of the tube. Please see the photo below what I mean. Does anybody knows how to open The lock cap at the LEV Si. 
The safety pin is only at the LEV Si therefore please let me know if somebody knows for what it is.







An allen key will not fit. It looks like a small round pin which is only insert to protect. There is no thread.


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

It's exactly for that, not allowing to service it at home


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

It also helps prevent that cap from unthreading which happens sometimes. I came across this on a LEV integra as well. If it’s under warranty, send it in. If it’s past warranty and your only other option is to buy a replacement cartridge anyway, there is a way to open it if you feel like trying. 

You’ll need to get a small drill and drill through that pin. Once it’s gone, you’ll be able to open the end cap. The hole you create will be beyond the o-ring so it won’t interfere with the seal. Obviously this voids warranty so I would only recommend this if you’re past warranty and you’ve got nothing to lose. 

It looks like the damper shaft has already been removed in that photo. Did it unthread somehow or snap? If it snapped, you’ll need to buy a new cartridge anyway. 

Good luck and let us know what happens. 

Chris


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## Soulslide2 (Oct 10, 2018)

At this photo, I pushed the damper shaft complete inside so that a lot of oil moves out. I will try to drill out the pin with a left drilling bit ( a very small one). Or maybe I try first to cut a 2mm thread inside and screw a small 2mmbold inside to pull out this pin.
Are you sure that this is a pin and not a screw.
Never mind when both solutions will not work than I cut of the pin with a small drill.

But I think only the first 1mm. That means only the length of the pin where it goes through the black tube. Please let me know if I think right.

I will work on it in CW 43. So I try to send some photos how I open it and what solution is the best.

CU 
Soul


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

When I encountered this, it looked more like a precise indent made by a machine rather than a pin or screw but I’d probably still do the same drill technique. And yes, you only need to drill through the black part to release the cap. Good luck. 

Chris


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

That little treat of a locking device was KS' answer to THIS thread! :lol: You can thank Chris! :ihih: 

Joking aside, after so many rebuilds under my belt, and still probably far fewer than cakelly4, yhe <$60 to buy a new entire cartridge is, IMO, the best and easiest way to go. It's still DYI, you can have an extra on hand to eliminate down time because you know you can't ride without a dropper once you have, and you won't ruin anymore perfectly good t-shirts due to missed oil stains when you overexert your effort installing the damper assy! :lol: You'll see what I mean if you move forward with the rebuild.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. Agreed on all points. A replacement cartridge is WAY easier...BUT...if you’re tossing this one anyway...may as well try the rebuild. 

Chris


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## Soulslide2 (Oct 10, 2018)

Oh My Sack! said:


> <$60 to buy a new entire cartridge is, IMO, the best and easiest way to go.


I do not think that I can buy a new cartridge for the new LEV SI in Germany for less than 60$. Therefore I will try to made a service by myself. And if you did it one time it takes you maybe only 20 min. of time. At the moment I send it back to my seller because the dropper is still in warranty. If they decide that I destroy it then I will open the cartridge by myself.
Yesterday I order a 1mm screw tap. I think I can pull out the pin very easily with that tool.


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## sebbyr (Feb 28, 2007)

Thanks Chris, I serviced my KS Lev 150TI a couple of days ago using these instructions.
Like a new one now, full travel again, no sponginess and not moving when I lift the bike up by the seat.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

No problem. I’m glad this thread is still helping people out! Thanks for the update. 

Chris


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Anyone figure out how to make the ks lev adjustable travel like the oneup?
I read the modification Peter V made which was a perfectly sized bushing to limit travel but when I emailed him, he said I would need to mill one out on a lathe. That's beyond my capabilities. I was wondering if anyone did something different.
It would be cool to limit a 175mm dropper to 172.5mm.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

If you have a spare DU bushing, you could possibly remove the inner core, which is essentially an aluminum split ring with a tan slick coating. Fasten that around the stanchion between the copper guides and the normal DU bushing and it should prevent full extension.

I’ve definitely never tested this but I’ve accidentally removed that inner ring from a few DU bushings. Seems like maybe that would work. Could also find some thin plastic pipe that is just bigger than the stanchion and cut a spacer to size. These are just thoughts. No idea how they would work. 

Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Or maybe a new saddle with lower profile rails? Just another thought. 

Chris


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Thanks.
I can experiment. I need to shorten my 175mm down 11mm.
A while back someone did something crude but effective for his wife. He tied a string from the saddle to the seat clamp which limits how much travel the dropper can extend. Pretty clever.
I think I can do that in a pinch.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

jacksonlui said:


> Thanks.
> I can experiment. I need to shorten my 175mm down 11mm.
> A while back someone did something crude but effective for his wife. He tied a string from the saddle to the seat clamp which limits how much travel the dropper can extend. Pretty clever.
> I think I can do that in a pinch.


You can do a nice job with zip ties. I did it for my 12-year-old.

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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Laterilus said:


> Update:
> 
> My IFP quad rings finally blew out this past weekend on my KS Dropzone. This is still relevant to LEV owners as both posts share the same IFP design and same size quad rings. In addition, the piston shaft quad ring is also the same. The air mixed with the oil internally but did not escape the cartridge so I determined that the internal seal head o-rings are still good.
> 
> ...


so what are the correct size rings for inner and outer of ifp? Are the ones listed on 1st page of this thread correct ones still?
Thanks


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Yes. They’re correct. 

Chris


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

Anyone worried about tackling this job, just dive right in. I just did my KS Lev Integra and it was super easy. The only "special tool" I used was a set of axle vice adapters from Park Tools. A 7/8 open end wrench fit the actuator assembly perfectly. I would say it took me ~30 mins taking my time and I had this thread open on my ipad in front of me for reference. I refilled my post w/ 10wt fork oil because that's what I had and everything seems to be working well.

Thanks!

ac


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## owenfranssen (Apr 14, 2016)

Hi all, been meaning to do my Lev DX for some time and took the plunge today. Followed the KS service video so far with no issues but have now got stuck. Ive taken the actuator assembly off, and the top collar, but I cant seem to free the shaft from the housing like they do in the KS video. I freed the DU busing carrier using the screwdriver method, but thats as far as I get. I can pull the shaft up and down (with some difficulty) but i cant pull it out... any tips?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

That is odd for sure. Without seeing your post, it’s hard to know what’s going on there. I will say that a firm tug is usually necessary to remove the cartridge from the outer tube, but that’s usually because the DU bushing is firmly seated and some force is required to bump it out. If you’ve already released the DU bushing, that seems odd. It also should slide in and out without much effort. 

Is this a DX integra or is it external cable routing? If external, is the Kevlar cable all jammed up in there? Could the post be clamped too firmly in the vice? Just spitballing here. 

Let us know what you find. 

Chris


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## owenfranssen (Apr 14, 2016)

Its the external one. From what i can see, the cable is straight and in the chanel.

In the end i hand held the stanching, and tapped the outer tube with a rubber mallet around the outside untill it let go. Still unsure why it was so stiff. There was a bit of accumulated mu in there, but nothing excessive. There do appear to be some rust coloured marks on the stanchion just above the guide bushings


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## owenfranssen (Apr 14, 2016)

This is what the post looks like. The bushing collar was quite difficult to remove. It moves freely on most of the shaft, but hangs up where its marked.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Your Roller Bearing is toast. Replace it while it's apart. Check the anodizing where the rust is located after cleaning it off. If you can feel even the slightest imperfection in the finish, trash it. The only thing that can rust in that system are the tiny springs that suspend the rollers themselves and that will muck up the rollers and introduce abrasive elements onto the stanchion. You can help prevent this in the future by greasing appropriately on reassembly but every so often, I'll unthread the top collar with the seat extended and pack some Slick Honey on top of the DU Bush/Collar then reattach the threaded collar good and hand tight, then cycle it a bunch. This will make that area around the collar dust seal more hydrophobic and prevent moisture from entering into the rollers.

As I have stated previously, my new mantra, especially when I see things going afoul as in your post, is just replace the cartridge and start from scratch. You'll end up with a black one if you like. My first LEV was the DX and I used it for years with only 2 rebuilds. I loaned it to my bike shop owner friend that needed it for an emergency while a Command Post was getting rebuilt and taking weeks. I never got it back as it was my back up post. I got paid for it, though. I still wish I had it in inventory. It's really a great post and with a new cartridge, bearing, and DU bush, you'll be good for years to come.


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## owenfranssen (Apr 14, 2016)

Thanks for the help, Oh my sack. I guessed as much. Its my back up post also, so no mad rush, but i'll order up some parts and get it sorted. The only thing thats led to it being replaced (with a OneUp Components dropper) is the external cable routing, both my bike frames have simple internal routing for a dropper which I prefer.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

While you’re at it, it’s also a good time to replace your dust wiper. Otherwise, Oh My Sack has it covered. 

Chris


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

cakelly4 said:


> Or maybe a new saddle with lower profile rails? Just another thought.
> 
> Chris


I just swapped seats from a thinly padded & low pro rails type seat to an Alibaba copy cat version of the same seat and there is an honest 10mm difference in height between the two from rails to seating surface.

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## sethd513 (Jun 12, 2016)

So my cartridge went a few months back and I bought a new one. Now 3 months down the road the new one is sinking. What gives ?!??!

Regardless I crashed the other dAy. Now I’m getting a ton of clockwise/counter clockwise play and when the post is extended I can actually pull up on it maybe get a few mm and a clunk. Any ideas what it could be other then the cartridge? Never had this much movement In it. Other then that post work perfect 


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

The 3 guide bushings could be damaged from excessive lateral forces from your crash. They're only a few bucks and an easy replacement. 

As for your cartridge failure, I'd ask whether or not you find yourself picking up your bike by the seat? Most all of us do. My contention is that with a hydraulic damper, you CANNOT do this when the seat is in its collapsed orientation. If you do, you an create a strong vacuum on the oil just like what we used to have to do when bleeding SRAM brakes with DOT fluid. Whenbyou put the oil under a vacuum it draws the gasses into the solution which creates an air pocket inthe sealed system allowing the post to sink. I never move my bike that way unless the post is fully extended. I have pretty much eliminated the sinking issue by doing so.


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## sethd513 (Jun 12, 2016)

I figured guide bushings. I usually just replace them and the du bushing every time I service I’ve just never had them fail. I never pick my bike up by the post but I did have it at the bike shop to do a caliper service and I didn’t pull the dropper in hopes there would be no issues. It’s been looser ever since and now a more noticeable issue after a crash. 

You can hear the guide bushings knocking. Should I tare it down before it gets worse?


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## sethd513 (Jun 12, 2016)

Ok and weirdest thing. I just checked the dropper and it’s tight again. Also no lifting issue when it’s fully extended. The last time I rode it was about 23 out to start but warmed to 34. Still a little sloppy when it’s all the way down but that doesn’t bother me. Does the cold really effect it that much?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Cold weather definitely does a number on them. I suspect the seals shrink and allow a bit of air to slip past the seals. There’s a possibility that your cartridge will start having problems again soon but hopefully you lucked out. 

Chris


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## kubabike (Oct 11, 2005)

Hi,

do you guys tried the PTFE guide bushings instead the bronze ones? 
KS Lower Guide Bushing PTFE P26003 - 11Motors
Could they be better than bronze?

EDIT
Now I see that in newer posts there are different bronze guides - shorter so now there are PTFE bushing + shorter bronze one. I'm curious is there any advantages of thi solution? Could it be retrofitted to the older posts?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

My wife has a post that started out that way and ultimately failed because the plastic deformed and got jammed in there. I swapped them out with the original longer copper guide bushings and have had no issues since. IMO, the mixed bushing is really dumb. 

Chris


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## Soulslide2 (Oct 10, 2018)

RTM said:


> my post's actuator rod/end cap are not extending as far as they should. when I release the lever, the rod/cap extends about 1/2 as far as it should. if I had to guess, there's something wrong with the spring in the lower right corner of this pic.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't figure out how to disassmeble that piece though. are the steps outlined somewhere? any idea where I could get a replacement spring?


Can same body tell me how I can insert the push the black jacket with the seals QR113 and QR114 back over the metal bar. In my case I could not replaced it back onto the metal bar. I pushed it so hard on it that I have destroyed the inner X-Ring QR-113. After doing that I have mounted everything together and at the moment everything feels good. I have also ordered some new seals to replace them in the next time if I get any trouble regarding the QR-113 seal. 
So the next time when I replaced the seal I must push the black jacket together with the new seal (QR-113) back nto the metal bar. Therefore it woul be nice to gets some suggestions or some tip.
Many thanks 
Soulslide


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Soulslide2 said:


> Can same body tell me how I can insert the push the black jacket with the seals QR113 and QR114 back over the metal bar. In my case I could not replaced it back onto the metal bar. I pushed it so hard on it that I have destroyed the inner X-Ring QR-113. After doing that I have mounted everything together and at the moment everything feels good. I have also ordered some new seals to replace them in the next time if I get any trouble regarding the QR-113 seal.
> So the next time when I replaced the seal I must push the black jacket together with the new seal (QR-113) back nto the metal bar. Therefore it woul be nice to gets some suggestions or some tip.
> Many thanks
> Soulslide


a few options; push the black piece onto a socket, same diameter as the gold rod. then push the socket out using the gold rod. keep the socket and rod flush and it should be an easy transition.

I have never used that method personally. I've done this several times and simply oil up the seal and the rod, and use a fine-point pick to 'help' the edge of the seal over the edges of the rod as I'm pushing it on. finesse is key. based on your description above you'll get a chance to try this again very soon.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

A craftsman 10 mm socket works very well for this and I highly recommend it. Far less of a headache that way. 

As for the spring, a 4 mm (I think) Allen key can be placed in the end of the damper to remove that but you may need to VERY CAREFULLY use soft jaws to hold the rest of the soft silver metal still while you remove that cap. It may be just gummed up rather than the spring being worn. 

Good luck

Chris


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

My lev integra was yrouble free for 2 years, up until last spring. It would extend fully but when i sit on it it would sink about half inch. I used this guide to rebuild it an all was ok for next 3 months. Than same thing happened in july so i rebuilt it again. It lasted til september. Since then, i have to rebuild it about once a month, same issue. Is this the sign of ifp seals going wrong? I just did rebuild and replaced both ifp seals but just wandering if this is the issue. Also when the post develops the issue, the actuator at the bottom is covered with small amount of oil, like if it was leaking a bit. Any idea?
Thanks


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Been there with a couple I have rebuilt. A ways back in this thread I described my theory, in short, I believe the anodizing on the shaft is compromised by the urethane seal and the new seal will still allow oil to bypass. The OEM seal on the offending posts was a much harder composition. Not as soft and pliable as the new seals obtained from O ring store and the damage is done after a long successful life.

Waste no more time on it and just replace the cartridge and be done with it.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i am just going to see if the new ifp seals fix the problem. i have always done the rebuild without swapping the them. 
it just seems weird that my 7 years old dropzone never had any problem in 5 years of intense abuse and still running strong on my wife's bike. lev gave up on me in 2 years.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Like Sack said, there are definitely some posts out there that don’t “take” well after rebuilds. Some do this after the first failure and rebuild. Others like my most recent cartridge did great for several services, then reached a point where it would fail after 3 rides. I also agree that wear and tear contributes. I’ve even seen a few posts that failed immediately after purchase and wouldn’t “take” to rebuilds. Two of these had a small pinhole in the stanchion in one of the slots where the copper guide bushing resides. Oil could be seen slowly leaking from those. 

If you have all the seals, a full seal swap may be worth a shot. If it fails quickly after that, get a new cartridge. Or if you’re just over it, go straight to the new cartridge since they’re not too expensive if you only have to swap every 2 years. (Or just get a BikeYoke Revive and pull a little lever every time it gets spongey to reset it).

Chris


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## rtbike (Jul 22, 2007)

*Why take all the internal parts out if not replacing seals?*



cakelly4 said:


> Good question regarding the seals. So far, the posts that I've fixed have done just great after this rebuild with no replacement of internal seals. Aside from mine, the other two I fixed began to have the problem shortly after purchase and so my theory is that there are some bad cartridges out there that already have a small amount of air in them. Alternatively, there could be a slow leaking seal and maybe my repaired ones will fail again sometime down the road. Another theory that I've read in some of the other threads is that by lifting your bike by the seat (with the post in the partially down position) you are potentially creating negative pressure in the system and sucking air into the oil chamber. This is also why I'm interested in receiving feedback from others who try this. Will be interesting to see if the rebuild effectively fixes the problem long-term, short-term, or not at all for some people.
> 
> Here are the other sites that I previously mentioned:
> 
> ...


I am getting about a year out of these KS Lev cartridges before the sag starts. The first time is was serviced and returned in about week by KS. But a year later the sag was back. At that point I found this post but decided to purchase a new one (80.00) and that has been good also for about a year and is starting to sag.

I live in CA and rarely ride in temps below 45 degrees, there is a chance that I have lifted the bike by the seat after failing to make a section and getting back on but this case is rare.

Anyway now I have two of these oil cartridges and decided to try this service on the one that is already disassembled. I removed cap using the spanner and sure enough a little air escaped and some of the oil seemed a little dirty.

So it does seem a little air is causing the sag. But at this point why go through trouble of taking all seals out/off if they are difficult to put back on?

I am going to fill it up with new oil and screw the inner rod back in and see if that fixes it, like replacing and bleeding breaks.

I will post back with how it goes.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

You can easily get away with bleeding the post and often get many months or longer without replacing seals. Sometimes air just slips past the IFP, not because of bad seals, but because of the nature of the IFP and it’s ability to tilt slightly and burp air past it.

While you don’t have to take all the parts out, you do need to be sure to reset the position of the IFP before reassembling it. If it’s in the wrong position to start with, the post won’t perform well. 

The LEV is fully dismantled in my thread so that the parts can be seen. It’s also good to inspect those parts occasionally. 

Chris


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## mdymes (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks for this. I was able to rebuild my gold cartridge and the thing is likely better than new now.

A few tips / noticings I had.

Whoever came up with using a aa battery to fit the oring in the black delrin spacer - this worked like a charm! I had to remove the label but it was perfect.

Any metal to oring surface and threads, I coated in slick honey, made everything go together really smooth.

I destroyed the 113 x-ring in the black delrin spacer trying to re-use it. It was petrified, not pliable at all. Purchased some new and they went in really easy, with some slick honey, it slipped right over the battery and internal shaft. I would say, save yourself the trouble of re-using the 113 and 114 on the delrin spacer, just spend the $9 on some new ones.

This post is also very helpful.

KS LEV rebuild and travel adjustment | Peter Verdone Designs

I used the redline 2.5 weight shock fluid, gives this post some good speed, well worth the $15


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

I’m glad it helped you. I’ve been using a 10 mm Craftsman socket as a bullet tool which also works great. I also place a small amount of Slick Honey on every seal when I replace them. All good tips. 

Thanks, 
Chris


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## neil_240 (Jan 2, 2010)

I've got a KS Lev ti that I am rebuilding for a friend. It was in a hot car and popped up then wouldn't stay up. So I have pulled the cartridge apart and put in new quad seals in the IFP and tried to bleed the cartridge twice and both times I can hold the cartridge on the bench and push it down with my body weight 2-3" if I push slow. If I try to push it down quickly the cartridge feels very firm. 

Should there be another seal I should be looking at replacing? I can not hear any air leaking out of the system.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Not sure what’s going on there but I would start over. Make sure the IFP is positioned in the proper spot before adding the oil. That step is very important. 

Chris


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## prosto_mtb (Jan 7, 2017)

Try replacing all seals in the post, including really small ones in actuator valve.
I don't think this relates to IFP placement, and it's not so important, as I can say after rebuilding Integras ~10 times.


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## neil_240 (Jan 2, 2010)

It was the valve oring B90007. I replaced that and now everything works fine.









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## olay (Sep 10, 2009)

Another tip:

I spent forever trying to get the internal floating piston ( IFP ) on.
I used the 10mm socket trick, again, no success
My 10mm was every so slightly smaller than the rod
If you wrap a few layers of Teflon Tape / Plumbers tape around the socket it works a treat.
You could use teflon around anything of similar diameter.

Thanks again for this thread


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## vicrider222 (May 2, 2011)

I did my KS Lev today and used a Duracell AA battery. Worked like a charm. I started with the sockets too but none of them were exactly 14mm like the IPF tube. The ones I had ranged from 14.2mm to 14.4 and would barely fit into the plastic part of the IFP, or not at all. The AA battery was spot on 13.99mm in diameter.

I was lurking around here when Chris started this thread, but had to wait for 4 years for my Lev to finally give in so I could try this procedure. So glad this thread is still here. However, Chris, if you are reading this I have 1 question/suggestion:

When reassembling the post you recommend to position the IFP 3mm from the end of the IFP tube, before filling the cartridge with oil. But after taking some measurements I established that when the cartridge is fully assembled the IFP tube sits exactly 3mm inside the bottom cartridge cap. So in your procedure you are essentially placing the IFP in the "bottomed out" position. I think it would be safer to push the IFP further along the tube for assembly. Otherwise, unless the inner push rod is positioned perfectly when screwing the cap in you may not get full seat post travel. Or if later during use a small amount of oil migrates into the air chamber, again it will immediately result in reduced post travel. So I sacrificed a fraction of the air chamber volume and increased the oil chamber volume by pushing the IFP another 10mm along the tube. This creates a buffer that will ensure the IFP never bottoms out when the post is fully extended. It's safe to reduce the air chamber volume slightly like this because when the post is fully compressed the IFP is only half way up the tube anyway. After measuring the dimensions of all the parts and calculating the oil and air chamber volumes I determined that the IFP is displaced 0.43mm for every 1mm the inner rod/piston moves up the tube.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Haha. Wow. That’s a lot of detail there. I’ll try that the next time I work on one and see how it does. That makes total sense. 

Thanks for the tip. 

Chris


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## Digital (Jun 24, 2005)

Chris

Are you aware of anyone in BC or Alberta that is servicing LEV's? I'd like to send this off to someone other than LEV (as they apparently don't service the old models any longer)... and pay someone to do the rebuild for me.

Appreciate your input.

Andrew Drouin
[email protected]


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Short answer: No, I don’t. 

Long answer: it depends on what you mean by “service.” If you mean that your LEV is sagging/spongey and needs repair, then I would simply recommend that you purchase a new oil stick/cartridge and install it. It will cost less than if you take it in for repair and that’s all that Kind Shock would do if you sent it in for that problem anyway. It’s far easier to do a cartridge swap than attempt the service on this thread, if that’s what’s keeping you from doing so. 

If you’re just referring to taking apart, cleaning, and relubing (without entering the cartridge), you can also do that fairly easily and some bike shops may offer that service. 

The service that’s described in this thread is not likely offered at any bike shops since swapping the cartridge is cheaper (for customer), less time consuming, and less likely to fail again soon. 

I hope that helps. Good luck. 

Chris


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## mtbsrac (Feb 10, 2013)

Hello!

Is this cartridge serviceable? KS eTEN Air Cartridge.
if I know it well no.
Thx.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

No but it’s replaceable. You can swap the cartridge out. 

Personally, I have to say that the KS eten is a turd sandwich. If you’re spending money to fix it, just spend more and replace it with something else. I personally recommend the Bike Yoke Revive. Worth every penny. That’s my 2¢. 

Chris


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## vicrider222 (May 2, 2011)

Doesn't the Bike Yoke require a bleed every time you turn the bike upside down? Because of the way they let air mix with oil.


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

Howdy all,
I have a lev, 8 months old, that's always been slow to respond. Now it's become erratic in response in that sometimes functions, sometimes remains locked down, & returns extremely slow., or has to be pulled up by the seat with lever engaged.
It never sags tho when in the up position.
I replaced lever cable with a new metal shifting cable, no help there. Is there a simple fix? Or, in need of a complete rebuild?
Any responses greatly appreciated!


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## vicrider222 (May 2, 2011)

Does your Lev have external routing (with a cable junction box on the side of the collar), or internal routing?


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## vicrider222 (May 2, 2011)

kneecap said:


> Howdy all,
> I have a lev, 8 months old, that's always been slow to respond. Now it's become erratic in response in that sometimes functions, sometimes remains locked down, & returns extremely slow., or has to be pulled up by the seat with lever engaged.
> It never sags tho when in the up position.
> I replaced lever cable with a new metal shifting cable, no help there. Is there a simple fix? Or, in need of a complete rebuild?
> Any responses greatly appreciated!


Does your Lev have external routing (with a cable junction box on the side of the collar), or internal routing?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

vicrider222 said:


> Doesn't the Bike Yoke require a bleed every time you turn the bike upside down? Because of the way they let air mix with oil.


No. The older version did that occasionally if the bike was upside down for prolonged duration but the newer versions have a membrane that prevents this. Also the bleed takes literally 2 seconds by pulling a lever under the saddle. Seriously an amazing post.

Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

kneecap said:


> Howdy all,
> I have a lev, 8 months old, that's always been slow to respond. Now it's become erratic in response in that sometimes functions, sometimes remains locked down, & returns extremely slow., or has to be pulled up by the seat with lever engaged.
> It never sags tho when in the up position.
> I replaced lever cable with a new metal shifting cable, no help there. Is there a simple fix? Or, in need of a complete rebuild?
> Any responses greatly appreciated!


Shouldn't be a cartridge issue. Sounds more like a cable tension issue. I'm wondering the same as vicrider. Do you have an integra or externally routed LEV?

Chris


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

cakelly4 said:


> Shouldn't be a cartridge issue. Sounds more like a cable tension issue. I'm wondering the same as vicrider. Do you have an integra or externally routed LEV?
> 
> Chris


It's an externally routed lev. So, cable tension issue?
It came with a fiber cable that I had trouble installing, so I went with a standard metal shifter cable. Seemed to function ok, but was always very slow to come back up. probably almost a full 2 seconds. Now, about about 3 seconds to extend.


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## mtbsrac (Feb 10, 2013)

Scientifically devastated:  

KS eTEN Air Cartridge  ""has already broken""

Materials:








Result:
























1-1 O ring is against pressure which wears out quickly. Oil volume cca 20-23ml.
It went to ruin in 1 year rarely used. Bad quality i think.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

kneecap said:


> It's an externally routed lev. So, cable tension issue?
> It came with a fiber cable that I had trouble installing, so I went with a standard metal shifter cable. Seemed to function ok, but was always very slow to come back up. probably almost a full 2 seconds. Now, about about 3 seconds to extend.


If it's an externally routed LEV, then there is also an internal kevlar cable that sometimes slips or stretches, etc. I would start by replacing that and making sure you get the tension perfect. While you're in there, you can clean and relube all of the gliding surfaces, check the DU bushing, etc. You shouldn't need to open the cartridge.

Chris


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

Thanks, Chris. I don't think I want to dig into it. Is this a service you'd be interested in doing? Or should I send it in to KS?
I certainty don't mind paying for Time & materials.


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## vicrider222 (May 2, 2011)

kneecap said:


> Thanks, Chris. I don't think I want to dig into it. Is this a service you'd be interested in doing? Or should I send it in to KS?
> I certainty don't mind paying for Time & materials.


Have you at least eliminated the trigger and the external cable as the problem? I would start with that. This is easy. It's covered in the user manual that comes with the post. (http://www.kssuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/LEVC-LEV-LEVDX-LEV272-all-languages.pdf) If you installed it in the bike yourself then you've been exposed to these steps already. I would do some basic external checks in this order:

1. Check the trigger at handlebars - does it have full range of motion? Does the cable seem to be installed in it correctly, without any slack?

2. Check external cable tension. If it's too slack it will cause this problem. Open the cable junction box located on the side of the post at the collar and watch the Locking Cable End in the box while you push on the lever at the handle bar. Is the Locking Cable End moving all the way down? It should look like this: 



. If not, you may need to tighten your trigger cable. You should have a barrel adjuster installed on the cable since it comes with the post. Use it to increase the cable tension and see if this resolves the issue. If you don't have the barrel adjuster then you need to shorten the cable, following the original installation steps from the KS Lev manual I linked to above.

3. You could then check if the issue is a slack internal actuator Kevlar cable Chris mentioned. You could do this without even taking the post out of the bike. Compress the saddle all the way down. Disconnect the Locking Cable End from the inner Cable Clamp (shaped like a little metal barrel), i.e. do this step in reverse: 



). Be careful not to pull on the inner cable at this step so you don't release the post to the fully extended position here. Then find a tool such as a flat head screwdriver, wedge it under the inner cable clamp barrel end thingy and pull on it with some force. If the post extends quickly, the problem is the slack inner Kevlar cable as suggested by Chris.

4. If step 3 is inconclusive, you can do one more thing: Compress the post. Then take it out of the frame and unscrew the bottom collar to expose the actuator assembly. And push the actuator in. Like this: 



 If the post extends quickly, then this points to one of the above issues in points 1-3 and you need to revisit those steps. If the post still extends slowly, try pressing more vigorously on the actuator lever. If it makes no difference, then the issue is inside the post cartridge. Most likely something to do with the inner piston valve, or much less likely due to heavily contaminated oil in the cartridge.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

kneecap said:


> Thanks, Chris. I don't think I want to dig into it. Is this a service you'd be interested in doing? Or should I send it in to KS?
> I certainty don't mind paying for Time & materials.


While I did previously offer service for these, I've just had too much on my schedule to continue. I would try the steps mentioned by vicrider. If you're not comfortable with that or you're still having issues after trying, I'd recommend your LBS or sending it in to KS (especially if it's within warranty).

If you do try vicrider's approach and remove the bottom cap, be sure to watch the KS video regarding how to reinstall the cap. There is a specific way to do it so that air between the cartridge and black outer shell is purged.

Good luck

Chris


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

Thanks guys, I've adjusted the external cable so that the small barrel compresses that little spring behind the red cap completely. it seems to function now, "almost" always, but way slower than before. It should be still under warranty, bought last july.
the video shows how to get access to the inner cable, but not how to adjust any excess play. And that might not even be the problem?


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

The actuator cable length from the ferrule to the exact point it is captured in the small barrel is CRITICAL but easily done if following the detailed instructions. Also, the same applies for the Kevlar string length within the post. 

How many psi is in the post? That's the component of return speed. None of mine are less than 150# psi.


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

Thanks, pumped it up to the max of 250lbs. I think I have the actuator cable to the small barrel good, it's very snug.I haven't taken the post apart to mess with the internal kevlar string yet, seems kinda tricky?


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

When it comes to the inner cable, you can’t really adjust it other than replacing it. There are videos from KS on how to do it. It’s not difficult if you’re relatively good at wrenching. One thing you could do is remove the red cap, grab the cable by the housing and pull it out of the junction box but leave the claw connected. You can then pull the internal cable farther by hand to see if the post activates better. 

I hope that makes sense. 

Chris


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

after several rebuilds of my ks lev integra, of which every subsequent one lasted less than previous one, i finally decided to get a new cartridge assembly. last few rebuilds only would last about 2 weeks before the post started sagging again. now with new cartridge, i need to remove the post "head" (the piece where seat attaches) and install it on new cartridge. i am not sure how it is installed, i cant seem to get it moving. there are no threads, so it seems like it would just slide in. any advice?

thanks


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## vicrider222 (May 2, 2011)

Yes, the head clamp just slides on / off. But it's a very close fit. And if it's been on there for a while, you will have dirt and grit that collects under it causing friction and making it hard to remove it. Drip some thin penetrating oil under it, then twist and pull with some force. As soon as it moves, push it back up and wipe any dirt that has dislodged, to minimize chances of scratching the parts. If your stanchion has any printing on it just under the head clamp (my non integra gold Lev stanchion has the "125" printed in black) you will have to push a bit harder because the print is slightly raised creating minor interference with the clamp. 

Did your prior rebuilds include seal replacement, or just new oil? I thought that with a periodic change of seals these cartridges could go on forever.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Thanks, managed to get it of.
I was fed up with rebuilds, like i said, forst rebuildblasted about 8 months, every next one was shorter and shorter with eventually i was having to rebuild after every 6 or so rides. And yes, it involved oil change and seals. The issue always came back an i could not figure out what exactly was caising it.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Some cartridges have damage that allows oil to leak so you were right to get rid of that one. The saddle assembly often gets deformed and will be slightly out of round thus making it difficult to remove. Honestly, I’ve always just used a rubber mallet and tapped each side of it alternately until it comes loose. Works great. 

When you attempt to reinstall it on the new cartridge, you may find it very difficult to slide it on all the way if it was indeed out of round. I also have a simple solution to this:

1. Slide it up to the top as far as it will go and get it aligned nice and straight. 
2. Clamp the stanchion just below the assembly in your bike work stand with the post vertical. 
3. Loosen the work stand clamp so that the post is not gripped but just hanging from the assembly. 
4. Place the lower saddle clamp plate on the curved portion of the stanchion above the lower assembly to create a flat surface on top
5. Hit that flat surface with a rubber mallet
6. Done

Works great every time. Good luck. 

Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

cavo said:


> Thanks, managed to get it of.
> I was fed up with rebuilds, like i said, forst rebuildblasted about 8 months, every next one was shorter and shorter with eventually i was having to rebuild after every 6 or so rides. And yes, it involved oil change and seals. The issue always came back an i could not figure out what exactly was caising it.


The thing that I've found recently on cartridges that fail like this was a tiny pinhole in the cartridge inside one of the grooves that the copper guide bushings reside. If you still have your old cartridge, you should wipe all of those grooves dry and then watch for any visible leaking of oil in any of them. It's very slow but enough to cause failure after just a few rides. I'd be interested to know if you find this.

Chris


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Did it. Sag gone! Great DIY. Was somewhat confused on a few bits:

The black cylinder and larger diameter shaft came out when I removed the cap with the spanner. I was able to get it back on and insert it using a socket to force it past the threads but wasn't sure where that is supposed to go i.e. all the way to the bottom, all the way to the top etc. When you overfill the oil and insert the dampening mechanism/shaft, I wasn't sure if that is supposed to go all the way in or not before tightening the cap with te spanner. Must be right b/c it works perfectly now!

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## torbo (Jun 8, 2015)

So, i got my LEV all rebuilt, everything seemed ok, and held up fine when i tried to compress it while re-assembling. However, when i put it back on the bike, once i sat on it, it slowly sagged all the way down to full compression.

Now the first time i tried this process, i had a hard time with the IFP, and i wouldnt be surprised if i damaged the quad rings. Is that the likely culprit?


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

I bled my saggy 150mm 31.6 Lev Integra a few months ago and everything was great. This weekend I took it to NEMBAFest and it's back to sagging about 50mm. Any parts I should replace while I read it down for a bleed again?


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

Where is everyone getting their quad rings? It looks like they are only available in giant packs. Anyone want to split up a pack?


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

So it looks like I'm going to need more than just a standard bleed. My post seems to be ~50mm shorter than normal. When I push down and pull up I can hear air/oil escaping out the bottom of the post. The actuator is soaked in oil. Clearly something has failed catastrophic. I guess I'll be taking it apart and seeing what seals are busted.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

FYI, I think I have around 4 or 5 of these cartridges laying around. Plenty of parts too. Probably enough stuff to build 2 or 3 posts. Hit me up if you want them for a few bucks. Whole package deal.


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

terrible said:


> FYI, I think I have around 4 or 5 of these cartridges laying around. Plenty of parts too. Probably enough stuff to build 2 or 3 posts. Hit me up if you want them for a few bucks. Whole package deal.


PM sent

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## Gumby_rider (Apr 18, 2017)

I have a pack of those rings and you are welcome to have a couple. Let me know.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Is it better to use the short copper guide bushing and PTFE ones if the originals were the longer copper? I read somebody say it was listed somewhere in this thread but I can't find it.


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

Gumby_rider said:


> I have a pack of those rings and you are welcome to have a couple. Let me know.


The quad rings?

I think the next time I have to bleed my post I'm really going to need to find a new aluminum seal head. The spanner holes are getting knackered.

ac

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## Gumby_rider (Apr 18, 2017)

Yes the quad rings



avc8130 said:


> The quad rings?
> 
> I think the next time I have to bleed my post I'm really going to need to find a new aluminum seal head. The spanner holes are getting knackered.
> 
> ...


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## Teocalli04 (Jun 22, 2015)

*Cannot get the silver cartridge cap to screw back in (integra)*

For the life of me I cannot figure out how to get this back in, there appears to be about a 1/2 gap before the threads will be in position to use a 90 degree needle nose for tightening.

The internals do not allow for any more room.

What am I doing wrong ?

thanks,

Dave


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## Gumby_rider (Apr 18, 2017)

Look at step 14 in the instruction. There is oil in there. When putting it in, you need to activate the actuator so the oil can flow out to make room for the assembly.


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## Teocalli04 (Jun 22, 2015)

Gumby_rider said:


> Look at step 14 in the instruction. There is oil in there. When putting it in, you need to activate the actuator so the oil can flow out to make room for the assembly.


That was my first thought but now I am simply trying to put it together without any oil and same result.

BTW the collar and seat clamp are still on the top as I could not remove them.

I even removed the air cap assembly inside which is designed to hit a bump stop in the seat post to see if something was accidentally in there.


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## Gumby_rider (Apr 18, 2017)

See if you can just install the tube with the IFP and the cap only and leave the push rod assembly out. If you can't do it, that means the tube with the IFP isn't inserted all the way in, or the IFP is binding up on something.


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## Teocalli04 (Jun 22, 2015)

Thanks Gumby...yup I tried that earlier and it works fine. At this point it appears the 2017 model is on sale for $202 (Ebay). I figure if I can get a two year warranty out of KS-LEV that might be fine for now. The newer model with the redesigned cartridge is another $100. I did get maybe four years out of my Integra so perhaps if I cannot figure it out I'll chalk this up to a repair gone bad.


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## Gumby_rider (Apr 18, 2017)

Did you try with the actuator activated? Without oil, you still have air in there.


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## Teocalli04 (Jun 22, 2015)

Yes I tried that as well, funny thing is it appears to be physically impossible for the assembly to fit in as the length cannot change. It's almost as if I have an extra part in there that shouldn't be so quite the clown move at present. The schrader valve cap does have a rubber piece on the inside of the tube that accepts the pushrod tube which I have tried reversing as well.


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## Teocalli04 (Jun 22, 2015)

Figured it out and what a Clown move lol...the rubber piece inside at the schrader valve belongs on the shaft and not on the inside ! Hopefully I have to orientation correct as now I do need to use the actuator to get it to seat. 

One other question I had is with regards to 5wt oil fill goes inside the push rod and not the large tube correct ?


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Strange. My KS LEV was sagging and the was a lot of play in it (after many years of use). So I service the cartridge, put new sales on the IFP, replaced the DU bushing and Rollerbearing.

Now the dropper feels like new, that is just one strange problem. The sag is now gone, but when I drop the saddle, release the remote and unweight the saddle, it partly comes up again. However If I do the same, release the remote and keep my weight on the saddle 7-8 seconds, it stays down.

Might be that there is too much resistance somewhere? Perhaps the little cable inside is jammed up? All rollers moved freely.


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## dviratinis (Aug 23, 2011)

*Supernatural leaks oil through actuator pin*

Hi, 
I did cartridge service to my KS Supernatural remote looking at this video: 



It was sagging ~ 2 cm. Now it's not sagging, but leaks oil through the top actuator pin. It leaks when I push the actuator and leaks quite a lot.







I don't see any seal on the top part of the dropper in exploded view: 







Any solution to cure this leak?
Many thanks


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

So I shipped my bike from NJ to Grand Junction, CO for 10 days of riding. Of course the first thing I find when I open the box is that my KS Lev has failed... AGAIN. It's sagging about 2" and oil is clearly escaping out the bottom and coming out through the cable routing hole. 

I'm guessing this is going to need more than a typical bleed job. I've actually ordered a replacement cartridge, but it won't arrive until Tuesday. Ugh

ac

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## TurboR1 (Jan 3, 2018)

Thanks cakelly4 and all who contributed to this thread! I was about to buy another dropper to replace my sagging KS Lev Integra but this thread was awesome! I purchased a seal kit on Ebay and I'm gtg.

I did have an issue with it returning slowly and not returning all the way up but found out I kept losing pressure while taking my pump off the schrader. It took me about 4 or 5 tries to get the psi set correctly.


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## Maine_Rider (Jan 23, 2011)

2nd rebuild of my dropper after a few years. The dropper finally stopped returning to full position since last rebuild. 

Followed the advice above to allow for extra space than the suggested 3mm. Hope that allows for longer time between rebuilds.

Made the dumb, and dangerous mistake of not depressurizing before opening the oil cartridge. Loud pop and oil everywhere despite a rag over the end. Don't recommend forgetting this step. lol.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

What type of oils have you been using in KS LEV after rebuild? Any differences observed in cold weather operation..?

I've rebuilt two LEVs of mine with Redline 10wt suspension oil(red) with good success several times. It however seems that the post is more prone developing the sag problem during cold weather in autumn/winter than during summer riding, and I was wondering if the oil type somewhat relevant with that. So the main question would be, that should the Light (5wt) or Extra Light (2.5wt) work better for cold weather? 

Viscosity-wise probably lighter is better(faster rebound speed), but is the downside that lighter weight oil allow air to seep more easily thru the seals to oil side..?


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## dviratinis (Aug 23, 2011)

So I didn't receive reply from anyone here.. is it seals or is it air cartridge comlplete fail creates that leak from my Supernaturals cartridge at the actuator.
KS i950 air cartridge costs 70 EUR (~80 USD) to my door, "less expensive" option which I'm not sure is going to solve the leak is the sealkit from ebay for 40 USD with shipping ...it looks like I need DU bushing and guide pins also, which increases costs of the service even more.
So servicing of my KS Supernatural will cost me almost like new BrandX Ascend II dropper post which is 100 EUR, has shifter style lever, warranty and perfect user feedbacks.


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

Oh my Sack, Did you ever figure out how to service your 272? I've got 2 of them. Working fine other than not returning because there's no way to add air pressure...
Hopefully see you at the next 3CMB meeting


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

laksboy said:


> Oh my Sack, Did you ever figure out how to service your 272? I've got 2 of them. Working fine other than not returning because there's no way to add air pressure...
> Hopefully see you at the next 3CMB meeting


Unfortunately, I did not! I ran out of motivation after literally destroying my back building the new trail at MdO. Because I knew I was possibly forever done with hard tails (hopefully not suspension bikes), I sold both my custom Karate Monkeys and the single speed had the 272 on it. I gave the new owner a new cartridge I had on hand. Also unfortunately, not sure I'll be involved with 3CMB like I was. I'm a month out of lumbar fusion/instrumentation surgery and was doing real well till a hiccup last week. I'll be in a CT Scan in about 2 hours investigating the possibility of one of my pedicule screws dislodging. Good times! Without much doubt, my trail building days are finished. I'm praying I'll be able to come out of this and get back on a bike. I'm ready as all get out for the pain of rebuilding....been there before. Just hope it's in the cards or I'm in a lot of trouble!


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## twowheeler1000 (Feb 10, 2020)

vicrider222 said:


> I did my KS Lev today and used a Duracell AA battery. Worked like a charm. I started with the sockets too but none of them were exactly 14mm like the IPF tube. The ones I had ranged from 14.2mm to 14.4 and would barely fit into the plastic part of the IFP, or not at all. The AA battery was spot on 13.99mm in diameter.
> 
> I was lurking around here when Chris started this thread, but had to wait for 4 years for my Lev to finally give in so I could try this procedure. So glad this thread is still here. However, Chris, if you are reading this I have 1 question/suggestion:
> 
> When reassembling the post you recommend to position the IFP 3mm from the end of the IFP tube, before filling the cartridge with oil. But after taking some measurements I established that when the cartridge is fully assembled the IFP tube sits exactly 3mm inside the bottom cartridge cap. So in your procedure you are essentially placing the IFP in the "bottomed out" position. I think it would be safer to push the IFP further along the tube for assembly. Otherwise, unless the inner push rod is positioned perfectly when screwing the cap in you may not get full seat post travel. Or if later during use a small amount of oil migrates into the air chamber, again it will immediately result in reduced post travel. So I sacrificed a fraction of the air chamber volume and increased the oil chamber volume by pushing the IFP another 10mm along the tube. This creates a buffer that will ensure the IFP never bottoms out when the post is fully extended. It's safe to reduce the air chamber volume slightly like this because when the post is fully compressed the IFP is only half way up the tube anyway. After measuring the dimensions of all the parts and calculating the oil and air chamber volumes I determined that the IFP is displaced 0.43mm for every 1mm the inner rod/piston moves up the tube.


Did it this way as well. Don't know if the ifp position has any influence on the stiffness of the post when fully extended? My first try using the 3mm option caused the dropper to work fine, but sometimes not extend fully. I hope this fixed the issue. I still feel the post slightly compressing when I put pressure on, but it's less than one mm. No idea if that has something to do with ifp position, but judging by how the lev works, it shouldn't makehcb difference. If it did, then any post should sag a bit when sat on and halfway in


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Good suggestions for sure. Glad to see this thread is still getting some use. Enjoy!

-Chris


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## Dr. Delam (May 8, 2007)

I had to revisit this thread for my current post, the Si. I had to drill out the pin in order to disassemble. Thanks for the tip on that. I would probably have not even noticed the pin and kept wrenching on it until the holes were trashed and then abandoned the whole process. 

My PTFE guide bushings were bent up a bit and fraying. I'm at a loss as to why they switched to that design. I emailed KS hoping that they would send me some all metal ones and they just directed me to buy them online. Thanks for nothing! 

I'm a little concerned that my 4 month old post needed servicing so soon. My old LEV went something like 7 years before I had to touch it. Seems like they are making some poor design choices at least for this model. This post came with my bike and I guess it is one of the cheaper ones.


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## nicolasswid (Apr 15, 2014)

Thanks for your trick, I managed to do it using 2 and 3mm drill. on a KS LEV SI. it is a spring steel pin inserted in a cavity in the cap. It is very hard, expect to break drill tool and spend some time. Finally in order to remove it, I had to do a wide cavity on the aluminium tube...(maybe 4-5mm wide and 3mm high) looks very ugly but did not compromise the working. I used 7.5wt oil and it works OK.
Shame on you KS suspension, your components are bad quality (sagging after 8 months) and you put this stuff to impede us to repair our component... Not ethical at all.


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

my post was sagging, even after an oil change it would only hold for 1 ride
turns out my MUU-10X15X3 o-ring was leaking, removed it and saw it has lost a lot of elasticity
changed out all the other o-ring according to the guide
THANK YOU for putting in the work


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## twowheeler1000 (Feb 10, 2020)

*Post not fully extending*

I did the rebuilt twice now, both fixed the sagging issue. However, a new issue popped up: the post doesn't fully extend anymore.

I noticed when I stopped hearing the "clunk" when it ends travel. I can pull on the saddle to make it do the last few mm's and hear the end sound, but it won't do it by itself.

The post doesn't sag when I sit on it though, so no air in the oil I suppose. There might be oil in the air, but would that be possible to go one way?

I'm now in doubt about pulling it apart again, buying a new cartridge or just a new dropper.


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## Midle Age Warrior (Nov 13, 2006)

Hello guys

I had rebuild many droppers before, Reverb, CrankBrothers, KS, Spezialiced among others but now I have on my workwench a KS LEV SI that performs like not enough oil in it.
I started the disassemble procedure and could not see or identify any IFP in it.
Is this model different innthrinternals, it at the bottom of the cartridge or in my case it come with out it.
The SI has a sort of pin holding the bottom cap of the cartridge I had to drill out in order to screw it out, appart that internals look the same thats why I am guessing the IFP is missing from factory, the dropper is new and came with a new bike but since I am not in USA I did not ask for warranty too complicated.
If anyone can help ?
Thanks in advance


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## nickbaker (Jul 6, 2020)

Thanks for this excellent and thorough write up. It helped me fix my Lev Integra which was starting to sag approx 10mm under load. I'd done a basic clean & regrease service quite recently so the oil was the main suspect.

Some notes:
- my stanchion outer / finish was pretty worn around the base, slots and roller bearing locations so I decided to replace with one I had spare (I had chewed up the push rod thingy on an early attempt at a service)
- there seem to be at least two methods of fixing the cartridge internals from 'user interference': a small indentation on the original model and on the later model a small pin which I carefully drilled out
- worth pointing out that even though I fully depressed the valve to remove air pressure it still 'popped' when I removed the internals (definitely worth having the eye protection)
- I used 5wt suspension oil to re-fill
- cleaned everything, greased with stendec grease and re-pressurised

Everything working perfectly now. I will have to remember not to lift by the saddle when lowered - I have definitely done that in the past.


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## osgilleh (Jul 6, 2020)

Would have replied to another post....so, edit is necessary:
Troubles with the pin in the bottom cap of the carthrige? The pin is certainly needed. If it's missing, the bottom cap will rotate, over time. Then the carthridge looses oil. Just been there :-(
I managed to push the pin out from the vertical holes used to tighten the cap.
It took a while though - does anyone know a trick to push the steel pin out, without destroying the annoying the little bugger?


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## osgilleh (Jul 6, 2020)

Midle Age Warrior said:


> Hello guys
> 
> I had rebuild many droppers before, Reverb, CrankBrothers, KS, Spezialiced among others but now I have on my workwench a KS LEV SI that performs like not enough oil in it.
> I started the disassemble procedure and could not see or identify any IFP in it.
> ...


The pin is cartainly needed. If it's missing, the bottom cap will rotate, over time. Then the carthride looses oil. Just been there :-(
I managed to push it out from the vertical holes used to tighten the cap.
It took a while though - does anyone know a trick to push the steel pin out, without destroying the annoying the little bugger?


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## Maine_Rider (Jan 23, 2011)

On my 3rd rebuild in 4 years.... still going strong.

I used 2.5wt oil on the last rebuild and I really like it! Super fast post actuation (careful down there - almost THAT fast). Like an "advanced" dropper... would not go back.

Also, if you screw up the insertion and get the ifp in the wrong spot, you may not get full extension (I see a prior post with a question on this). I'm missing a few mm on this last build.... NBD.

Lastly, the threaded actuator assembly (holds the cable) on my post - the threaded part sheared / snapped during the rebuild - had to buy another. I suspect 4 years of abuse fatigued it.... another wear and tear item.


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## SickEdit (Apr 4, 2019)

Hi i just rebuilt my LEV Integra MJ 2015. It works and I get full travel, but to compress it feels very progressive as if the air chamber was too small (filled with oil?). Theres also oil coming out of the valve if i let air out. 

Is it possible that i filled the air chamber with too much oil? Also what should be the pressure in full compression when i pumped it up extended to 200psi?


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## clgunion (Jan 27, 2015)

*KS Lev DX rebuild*

All,

First, thanks to all who have contributed.. great wealth of knowledge here.

I was on a ride and I experienced where post wouldn't come back up. I tried depressing remote and nothing. I depressed remote and tried picking bike up by seat, and there was a noise of air releasing and then the seat post fully extended, and when I let go of seat, it fell all the way back down. the seat post wouldn't stay up at all after that. I brought it home and followed instructions here to take it apart.

On Step 4: Push the post through or carefully pull on the actuator assembly to expose the inner shaft, an o-ring that was blown apart into pieces fell out.  See attached images. 










I believe there is a good picture of this o-ring after step #6 (see below under thumb in image)










But I don't see it in the images below, or it listed in o-ring replacements parts.










Is there a replacement o-ring for this?


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## clgunion (Jan 27, 2015)

I followed the steps to disassemble my dropper post. After step #4, a rubber gasket/o-ring fell out that was destroyed.










I couldn't tell where it came from since it was in pieces and just fell out.

I believe it may be the one in the image from step #6 under the right thumb..










But I don't see it denoted, or do I see it in the image w/ all the 0-rings and followed by list/links to replacement ones.










I've purchased a new air cartridge, and thought I would rebuild the old one as a back-up.


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

It’s a bottom out bumper that keeps the actuator assembly from slamming into the bottom of the cartridge. It’s more like a rubber washer than anything. I believe you can still order this from some of the sites listed in my thread but I’ve also found similar rubber washers at my local hardware store that worked fine. The inner diameter just needs to be slightly larger than the small shaft it resides on so it can slide freely. It’s about 4-6 mm thick if I recall correctly. 

Hope this helps. Good luck!
-Chris


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## bigleg82 (Jul 1, 2008)

*Newer 175mm LEV Integra Rebuild - Re-attaching the Damper Valve Assembly*

Hey all,
I just attempted to rebuild a 175mm LEV and ran into a problem. I've rebuilt 3 other LEV posts and this one looks different inside (I was able to push out the pin to open the damper instead of drilling, by the way). The damper valve assembly is of different design, with two places for wrenches. The problem is the valve assembly is not threaded into the damper shaft like usual. It was quite tight when I removed it using a 9mm wrench and a vise but now is very loose...what's going on here??


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hmmmm. I’ve stopped working on these and that damper definitely looks different but it at least APPEARS to me that there is still some aluminum down in that damper tube. I’m GUESSING that the threaded end of that damper snapped off and is stuck down in there. I saw that happen once to the actuator assembly threads and it looked just like that when looking into the damper tube. I can’t quite tell from the pictures but does it look like the aluminum sheared on the portion you removed? Bummer. 

Chris


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## bigleg82 (Jul 1, 2008)

Hmm, the aluminum looks awfully smooth but yeah, that would make sense. I'm hoping someone else pops on here who has rebuilt this type of damper and can say for sure. Maybe I should have heated it?


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## Dann Bikeman 69 (Mar 5, 2021)

I want to thank you a lot for the detailed post, you've saved my ass, I got stuck when the black rubber seal with the square gasket went all the way in while following a bleeding tutorial on youtube.

I looked all around e place for hour looking for it, I was just so lost... but your post saved my ass and I was able to successfully bleed my ks lev, you rock! Keep it on! Greetings from Mexico, cheers!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

Hey Dann Bikeman, I'm glad this thread helped you get back up and running. Happy Riding!

-Chris


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## SickEdit (Apr 4, 2019)

Hi, after servicing my LEV Integra I experience pressure build up when the post is lowered. You can hear trapped air slowly escaping. Function is fine apart from the added resistance when lowering the post (traps air) or extending the post (creates a vacuum) that slows the operation down. Also the pressure buildup seems to unscrew the Dust Wiper a little. This is not an air chamber problem but occurs from the "lower leg". What did i do wrong, is the air supposed to escape somewhere and I rebuilt it too tight or is the pressure/vacuum buildup normal but mine is leaking now?

I didn't read the whole thread so if this was covered before, let me know!


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Hmm, I think the air should get out from the post thru the actuator mechanism in the bottom of the post when you compress it, or there might actually be a small port for that. If you have used "liberal amounts" of grease on the actuator mechanism, it technically could block the air escaping via the normal route, and now it hisses out where ever it finds any route out. It should be fairly easy to check, no need to disassemble the internals, just screw the actuator part loose from the outer pipe and check if there might be a lot of grease blocking the airways...


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## SickEdit (Apr 4, 2019)

Yes I re-greased it that may have caused the problem. However I have a 2016 model, and don't see what could be a port in the bottom cap. Basically the air can only slowly go through the threaded connection, but i wonder why it wasn't like that before. The bottom cap doesn't serve a role for keeping lubricants in right? So maybe i could drill a small hole in it.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Some models seem to have there a separate port for air to escape(red arrow), but I'm not certain if all models have this or if there might be some other route for air to escape. The bottom cap on Integra should not have any sealing function, but it just keeps the internal part connected to the outer tube and keeps the actuator in correct position.










On the old non-integra LEV there was a small hole on the bottom cap to allow air to escape, but if that was blocked, it had tendency to pop out the cover where the wire from remote is connected on the collar...


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## SickEdit (Apr 4, 2019)

ok thanks for the photo! I don't have that hole so that's probably the reason why they added it later


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

This is such a long thread now and I'm not sure if anyone has found the reason I discovered today as to why my LEV Integra is sticking in the down position but here goes. I think it's time dependent for one thing and that's one reason why it's intermittent on the trail. If it's down more than 1 min and 15 secs it will almost always stick. KS has replaced the IGUS bearing and cartridge and it is still sticking on the bike. It's only 3 months old and a 150mm X 30.9 mm and we've tried all the usual things like loosening up the post clamp, slick honey, etc.

After much testing off of the bike (before I send it back today) and being surprised that it was not sticking I attached a saddle to the post and torqued it to 70 in-lb...which caused my post to start sticking again!!!!! It would only work properly if the torque was much less than 50 in-lb. Even 70 in-lb is a lot less than the recommended max. And once stuck loosening up the saddle clamp screws enough would always instantly unstick the post. 
Bizarre to say the least!







Hope this helps someone out there that might be struggling to figure out this common problem. My post is going back to KS one more time today and they too are scratching their heads about this. The saddle torque must be distorting the top of the shaft enough to make it stick is the only thing I can come up with so far.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Which frame you have? Can you take a photo of the top of the seat tube with the seatpost and collar removed? 
Maybe there is some kink/corner that is compressing the seatpost unevenly, causing high stress to a single point in the outer tube of the LEV, causing it to bind even if the torque is well within spec...


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

Verttii said:


> Which frame you have? Can you take a photo of the top of the seat tube with the seatpost and collar removed?
> Maybe there is some kink/corner that is compressing the seatpost unevenly, causing high stress to a single point in the outer tube of the LEV, causing it to bind even if the torque is well within spec...


I have a CF Focus Jam2 ebike. It came with a Lev and I also ran a 2nd and 3rd Lev on it without any issues. The last one I had was the same model, an Integra but a 170mm inserted all the way. Same cable, clamp and actuator was used on all of these.

And remember, I was able to get it to bind off of the bike too by just adding a saddle and torqueing to 50-70 in-lb. Initially before adding the saddle I was very troubled because it was not sticking and would have gone back to looking for what you suggest, although the inside of the frame seat tube is smooth. Outside the bike there isn't any stress on the dropper except for the two saddle attachment screws and nothing to bind or kink the cable. And with that same cable the 150mm Crankbrothers worked every time and it does hit when inserted all the way since it's got a larger insertion depth, an advantage with the Integra. Yeah I've looked at this a bunch of different ways and finally had this ah ha moment today. I just sent it back to Lev after explaining this to them and hope they will just replace it because they may never find the root cause. Be at least we can test the fix easily off of the bike now.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Does anyone here have some good tricks how to install the U-cup seal(MUU 10x15x3) that is inside the bottom cap of the cartridge part?

I managed to get couple of spares, and got the old one out, but that seems very tricky to put back in. There seems to be some special tools for installing similar u-cup seals, but nothing small enough and easily available. Gotta figure out some DIY tool, unless if someone has good tips how to get new one in...


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

sdcoffeeroaster said:


> I have a CF Focus Jam2 ebike. It came with a Lev and I also ran a 2nd and 3rd Lev on it without any issues. The last one I had was the same model, an Integra but a 170mm inserted all the way. Same cable, clamp and actuator was used on all of these.
> 
> And remember, I was able to get it to bind off of the bike too by just adding a saddle and torqueing to 50-70 in-lb. Initially before adding the saddle I was very troubled because it was not sticking and would have gone back to looking for what you suggest, although the inside of the frame seat tube is smooth. Outside the bike there isn't any stress on the dropper except for the two saddle attachment screws and nothing to bind or kink the cable. And with that same cable the 150mm Crankbrothers worked every time and it does hit when inserted all the way since it's got a larger insertion depth, an advantage with the Integra. Yeah I've looked at this a bunch of different ways and finally had this ah ha moment today. I just sent it back to Lev after explaining this to them and hope they will just replace it because they may never find the root cause. Be at least we can test the fix easily off of the bike now.


Just a quite update. KS claims my post was over torqued. I've never gone beyond 70 in-lbs but maybe my torque wrench is defective? They are fixing everything for free however and changed out a bunch of parts this time and have even installed a newer saddle clamp (3rd style I'm aware of now) so I hope it's fixed. I'm just doubtful that I over torqued it and I always used a torque wrench on it. I bought a new Pro Tools torque wrench just in case mine is bad. My post never feels right during torqueing and I always come up on the final torque gradually and alternating bolts. But it just always felt like something was stretching and I doubt it's the bolts, more like the parts that clamp on the saddle rails. This time I'm going to start off with 6 nM or 53 in-lbs and if that's tight enough I'll just stop there.


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## wiggins504 (Jun 17, 2021)

Does anyone have a source for the P26003 PTFE lower guide bushings? I need to replace them but every source in the US has dried up. TIA!


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

I've had my rebuilt LEV Integra for a while now and no more sticking issues. I took some pics of all the new upper clamp parts in case anyone is interested. I'm currently running 200 psi at LEV's recommendation but will try 150 psi soon since it's a bit difficult at times (cold mornings) to drop the post. It drops but just seems to take more effort than before this rebuild by LEV. Otherwise I have no complaints except for the characteristic ultra loud topping noise that lets everyone around you know you've raised your post. That is pretty annoying about the LEV posts.


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## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Hey, any info on ifp height and assembly order to assemble a 27.2 lev so they're is no air in the oil chamber?


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## bigdog100 (Sep 13, 2009)

I have KS Lev Si Dropper Post I have it all apart. My post is sagging under load. What do i need to replace in the cartridge it looks different than the one pictured on this thread. Where do I purchase the orings etc? Thanks


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## markdgutierrez (Nov 23, 2021)

Chris,
Like so many others have already said, thanks for putting this together. To save me from buying a **** ton of seals I don't need is it possible to buy a kit from you?

Thanks,



cakelly4 said:


> *LEV Rotational Play Repair*
> 
> If you have a SIGNIFICANT amount of rotational play in your post (nose of saddle rotates left and right), this should resolve it or dramatically reduce it.
> 
> ...


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## CU-Murph (Apr 2, 2004)

About to try this procedure myself. Do you have to do steps 11-12 (dissemble the internals)? I watched a few other videos and they skipped those steps. Sorry, if this has been asked before, I've looked at a few of the pages, have not had time to look at all of them. Thanks!


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

CU-Murph said:


> About to try this procedure myself. Do you have to do steps 11-12 (dissemble the internals)? I watched a few other videos and they skipped those steps. Sorry, if this has been asked before, I've looked at a few of the pages, have not had time to look at all of them. Thanks!


Yes. You will need to inspect/replace the IFP quad rings but even if you don't replace them, you'll need to reposition the IFP so that it is seated in the proper position before refilling with oil.

Good luck!
Chris


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## cakelly4 (May 20, 2012)

markdgutierrez said:


> Chris,
> Like so many others have already said, thanks for putting this together. To save me from buying a **** ton of seals I don't need is it possible to buy a kit from you?
> 
> Thanks,


Sorry. Just saw this. PM me an address and I'll check to see if I still have all of the seals. I most likely do but I'll admit that I ditched the LEV for a Bike Yoke Revive and will never go back. But I love tinkering so I respect the LEV die hards. 

Chris


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## CU-Murph (Apr 2, 2004)

cakelly4 said:


> Yes. You will need to inspect/replace the IFP quad rings but even if you don't replace them, you'll need to reposition the IFP so that it is seated in the proper position before refilling with oil.
> 
> Good luck!
> Chris


Thanks! I too would love to get a set of the seals, if you have another set. I’m hoping that I don’t have to replace them this go around, but want a set just in case.


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## CU-Murph (Apr 2, 2004)

Opened up the KS Lev Integra I’ve got and turns out it had hardly any oil in it. Topped it up and it seems to be working fine again. Fingers crossed it lasts, but got the o-rings/seals ready to go if it starts to fail. Thank you to the OP and everyone for sharing and making this available!


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## mambabarang (7 mo ago)

cakelly4 said:


> TO GET THIS THING BACK ON THE METAL TUBE** The best technique to get the IFP back on the tube was demonstrated by "chukt" on page 14 of this thread. Simply use a Craftsman 10 mm socket - it has the same outer diameter as the tube. The IFP can easily be slid onto the socket over the rounded edge, then slide the IFP directly off th


hi Chris im looking for the demonstration in page 14 i did not see one..i cannot fit IFP sorry for my english
Very helpful Chris.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

mambabarang said:


> hi Chris im looking for the demonstration in page 14 i did not see one..i cannot fit IFP sorry for my english
> Very helpful Chris.



If the problem is to get the IFP back on the inner tube, you can use pretty much anything that has suitable diameter (10mm, I think) as a bullet tool to slide the IFP first on the bullet tool and then transfer it on the inner tube. You can use pretty much anything that has suitable outer diameter and slightly rounded corners as "bullet tool", I used an AAA sized battery. I can't remember now was it so that I had to strip off the marking tape to get the AAA battery outer diameter correct, or if I had to add couple of rounds of electrical tape...

I think I found the same AAA battery trick here from this thread, but it is quite many pages long so couldn't find reference now directly...


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## madmarc (Jun 1, 2009)

@cakelly4 - Hi Chris, first thanks for starting this thread some years back - I'm from South Africa and have a KS Lev 31.6 X 125mm that developed some sag. After trolling through every page i went down the rabbit hole and stripped it, basically redid the oil and re-assembled it. It failed a 2nd time mainly because I didn't follow your instructions to the letter. the 2nd attempt worked a lot better but i still had about 1 or 2 mm sag - I'm a bit anal so i stripped it again and this time i will replace most of the o rings and the IFP seals, but i suspect in the 2nd attempt I got some air in the oil side during assembly. As a Mech Eng I know any air in a hydraulic system is not good ane will affect the performance.

In one of your posts you refer to the Pinkbike tour of KS lev factory - The cartridges are assembled while submerged in an oil bath - which I think is the way they ensure no air enters the oil side of the cartridge during assembly - Have you or anyone tried this method - As i want to try it ....But !

In another post someone mentions it is possible to have too much oil which will move the IFP up while screwing in the cap and affect the drop length.

Any feedback in this would be most appreciated.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

I think if you have the IFP set at somewhat correct height, it is not that easy to get "too much" oil in the "damper" side even if you assemble it submerged, at least not that much that it would noticeably affect the travel of the post... If the IFP is too high to begin with, then it might be a bit different story...


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## kbenito (May 3, 2021)

I've recently bought a first gen KS LEV 272 dropper in a mint condition, however, the rebound was slow and incomplete as it was expected based on others' experiences... I know that the newer style cartridge is compatible with this post, but thanks to this thread I made an attempt to bring this old one back to life.
Firstly, I tried different lower guide bushing setups: a long brass or a short brass combined with the PTFE one. In my opinion the single piece long brass is much better, generates much less friction. Installation of these along with regreasing had a great impact on the rebound characteristics.
As the rebound was yet unreliable (it was sometimes incomplete) I decided to deal with the cartridge. Since changing the oil to a lighter one seemed to be quite complicated according to this thread, I tried to add air in the IFP chamber. For that purpose I bought this tool:









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After removing the epoxy that covers the access hole I investigated whether the injection needles shipped with the tool fitted well or not. According to Peter Verdone's website the hole is 0.025", so that was not surprise that the 22 gauge needles (0.028") were too thick, however, the difference was minuscule. Because of this instead of using higher gauge needle I gradually reduced the diameter of the 22 gauge one with a 100 grit sandpaper until the needle (lubed with Slick Honey) created a tight fit in the hole. To stiffen the needle a piece of 0.03" I.D. PEEK tubing was used leaving the last 0.3" free. With this technique the IFP chamber could be easily inflated to 250 psi with a standard shock pump and the rebound speed is perfect now without cartridge disassembly (lower temperatures may require lighter oil...).


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## Balux (1 mo ago)

Deal all! 

This is a truly fabulous thread, thanks for everyones contribution! 😇 yet i really hate to come back here every 6 months to rebuild my Lev DX 🤒 instructuons on spot, dropper works fine after service, then out of nowhere it starts sagging after 4-6 months of flawless shredding.

Do we know what is the true reason for the problem? Bad design? Old seals? Cold weather? (I never lift the bike by the dropper) 

I mean if there is no long term solution i must go back to rigid, or buy an other dropper, bc frankly speaking cartridge rebuild every 6 months is nonsense to me. 

Cheers from Budapest!


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## madmarc (Jun 1, 2009)

Balux said:


> Deal all!
> 
> This is a truly fabulous thread, thanks for everyones contribution! 😇 yet i really hate to come back here every 6 months to rebuild my Lev DX 🤒 instructuons on spot, dropper works fine after service, then out of nowhere it starts sagging after 4-6 months of flawless shredding.
> 
> ...


Hey Balux.
The sag is from air trapped inside the hydraulic side of the cartridge 
I have the same issue, in fact mine starts sagging again after a couple of days - only a few mm but obviously it will get worse over time. I have read these instructions so many times i almost know them by heart, I have followed them to infinite detail with no difference and i have rebuilt the cartridge probably 5 times with new seals - so this rebuild is clearly not a long term solution.
Because of my engineering brain i have given a lot of thought as to why we get sag again - Well as you can see in one of my previous posts in the PinkBike tour of KS Lev factory, they show these cartridges laying in an oilbath which leads me to believe that the final closing up of the cartridge (insertion of the hyd piston & tightening up the bottom plug) is done while immersed in oil. This is to ensure there is absolutely no air or air bubbles in the hydraulic piston once it is sealed. Any air bubbles or even the slightest amount of air will cause it to start sagging again once the air accumulates together.
I have gone back to a normal seatpost and planned on binning the Lev as we have no agent in South Africa and to bring in a cartridge from Lev USA will be cheaper to replace the Lev with an alternative brand. 
But before i do that i will try once more to do this fix
First i will vibrate the oil to get ll the air bubbles out - some are so small you cannot see them with the naked eye.
Once the oil chamber is full i will vibrate the entire cartridge again
I will then place the cartridge and the piston inside and oil bath vertically ensuring their is no air trapped inside the piston rod.
the final insertion of the piston rod and closing up of the cartridge i will do while immersed in the oil.

Will be a messy job and waste of oil but i'm keen to try save the post - If it doesn't work i will bin it for a different brand


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Even if there would be some miniscule amount of air with the oil, the additional air has to get in from somewhere to cause any noticeable sag. The problem is likely some of the "dynamic seals" between oil and air, which aren't that many. It would be either the quad rings on the IFP, the "shaft seal" or the small O-rings on the actuator piston. The oil inside the post is always pressurised, so it is very difficult to get air inside from the actuator end dynamic seals, as the pressurised oil is trying to get out. However on the IFP it is the pressurised air that is pushing IFP against the oil and pressurising it, so it is more likely that air enters the oil thru the IFP seals where air pressure is bigger than oil pressure(kind of). 

So if your problem is only air getting mixed with oil, without external oil leakage, I'd start with changing the IFP quad rings and use liberal amount of grease when installing those and on the shaft the IFP slides on.

If you have also oil leaking out from the actuator end, then it is likely that there is (also) problem with the actuator piston O-rings or/and the U-seal on the sealhead.

Additionally, if you want to keep the internals fully submerged while assembling, (I think) it is kind of pointless to submerge the whole thing in oil, just put a piece of inner tube tightly with couple of zip ties around the post when installing the sealhead, it will prevent oil spilling all over the place, while still keeping all parts submerged in oil.


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## madmarc (Jun 1, 2009)

Verttii said:


> Even if there would be some miniscule amount of air with the oil, the additional air has to get in from somewhere to cause any noticeable sag. The problem is likely some of the "dynamic seals" between oil and air, which aren't that many. It would be either the quad rings on the IFP, the "shaft seal" or the small O-rings on the actuator piston. The oil inside the post is always pressurised, so it is very difficult to get air inside from the actuator end dynamic seals, as the pressurised oil is trying to get out. However on the IFP it is the pressurised air that is pushing IFP against the oil and pressurising it, so it is more likely that air enters the oil thru the IFP seals where air pressure is bigger than oil pressure(kind of).
> 
> So if your problem is only air getting mixed with oil, without external oil leakage, I'd start with changing the IFP quad rings and use liberal amount of grease when installing those and on the shaft the IFP slides on.
> 
> ...


Yep you are correct - Air could be leaking past the IFP into the hydraulic cylinder this could be another cause of sagging again.
I pressure tested mine after replacing the IFP and there is zero leakage over a 3 hour test period @ 250 psi.
This is why i'm thinking the air is being captured while doing the final assembly or air fine air bubbles in the oil.
But i will test it again before I do the next assembly

Good suggestion in your final paragraph it certainly would be easier to do it this way


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

madmarc said:


> I pressure tested mine after replacing the IFP and there is zero leakage over a 3 hour test period @ 250 psi.


Most likely it won't fail if you only have static pressure and post extended, even if you keep it 3 weeks. The leak is more likely to happen when the IFP moves and possibly when you apply some bending force* while you move the post. So better test would be to put max pressure and cycle post 50-100 times while compressing the post several times by pressing from the nose and other bunch by pressing from the tail of the saddle to get some bending force to the IFP.

* Think of this that you have a bike with very small seat tube angle and when you compress the post, the force you apply is not directly to same direction as the post slides, this creates a slight bending force that might stress the IFP more from one side than the other, which might tilt the IFP ever so slightly and allow some air to pass over the seal(s).


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