# Comment please: full suspension on the pavement



## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

I have a Burley Samba. It's a mountain bike in the same sense as early 1990's mountain bikes, it has riser bars and 2" 26er tires and no suspension. It's a good bike, a very late version with V brakes and a 24 speed drivetrain. And we are not likely to go offroad, I have it wearing Kojaks. Nevertheless I've got a lot of reasons to be shopping for a different one...

It's too big. It's a L/M and I should have found a M/S. My wife is really having a hard time with the M rear. With the cheap suspension seat post slammed as it can get, she's maxed out, and would prefer a bit lower, and the standover is hard. I don't like the L front that much either though I'm usually right between sizes and I can make do. But she's not my only stoker. I take it for blind stoker events and get a wide variety of stokers. The frame size and suspension seat post prevents the kids and smaller ladies, only have had taller ladies and guys. I'd really like something with a big disk brake in the rear. The Samba has the drum brake mounting provisions but not included. We're not really interested in a road bike style

I also have a 4yo and a kidback but haven't gotten that system together yet. Could put him on crank shorteners pretty soon, I think, if I could really slam the seat.

I'm thinking that with team+bike approaching motorcycle weight and the desire to have a really wide range of height in the rear, it would be nice to have a S or even XS rear with a really long seat post and move the function of rear damping from the seat post to the frame.

I've also nosed around the idea of a Periscope but it doesn't seem to solve as many problems.

I also would consider a fat tandem, it seems like it would just be fun for the wide variety of people. But the Jefe's "small" isn't really that small. I also like the idea of Ventana either way, because they are local to me (Rancho is one town over from Folsom and they share a school district)


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## unikid28 (Oct 11, 2017)

If you are riding only on pavement not sure why you need full suspension? Just find a smaller frame and run large volume tires instead? Little kids won't activate the rear suspension anyway?

The Periscope Scout appears to have the lowest / most flexible stoker configuration of any tandem available. Not sure how this wouldn't meet what you are looking for?


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

The suspension wouldn't really be for the kids... they're tougher than adults! Or they don't know enough to complain

Periscope fits the bill for range of sizes, that's kind of its point. (So would a Bike Friday.) But its tire clearance looks pretty skinny and it seems like the adjustability would be somewhat defeated if you added a suspension seat post.


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## unikid28 (Oct 11, 2017)

You can't have rear suspension without increasing standover or seat tube height. There won't be any room for the shock otherwise. So your stoker requirements can't be met with a full-suspension bike.

As for the Periscope, I don't see how a suspension post won't work. You said the kids don't care about suspension so you can have their saddle slammed down low.

When riding with an adult, you can quickly swap the post for a suspension post. Just have 2 seats and posts - one for kids, another for adults. 2 minute swap. 

On top of this there are some suspension posts out there with minimal clearance designs on them. Obviously if you go with a Thudbuster type of post those take up a lot more space. But with some of the others, I would be surprised it wouldn't work for both the adults and kids, and the adjustability of the Periscope would be able to cover both ends of the spectrum.

As for tire width, how wide are you looking to go? I would be surprised if the Periscope can't handle at least 2.1 tires. If you are using a slick type of tire, perhaps slightly even more. You could always check with Co-motion on that.

Good Luck!


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Sounds to me like you really want an ECdM but can't quite bring yourself to say it out loud.  I think you should do it! It will open up endless riding opportunities and increase the chances of family peace enormously. What is money for if not to buy happiness!


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*Happy couple with child*


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## unikid28 (Oct 11, 2017)

LOL that solves both problems! Toss a trail-a-bike on the back and call it a day!

Also gotta love the crocs for the captain and flip-flops for stoker...


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

So fun you noticed those details lol.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

We have a ECDM and I hate the 2.5 miles of pavement to get to our local trails. We really don't have overly aggressive tires, but it is just a big, slow, inefficient bike to ride on the pavement. Once it dirt....no problem.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

ki5ka said:


> Sounds to me like you really want an ECdM but can't quite bring yourself to say it out loud.


I couldn't honestly deny that.

Right now I'm trying to install the kidback on the Samba and running into minor issues. Turns out the Burley stoker kit is for 110bcd/36t timing rings but my actual Burley has Truvativ cranks at 130bcd/39t. Chain line looks a bit off too which makes me wonder about the stoker BB spindle length, if I have road cranks and spindle and the kidback is MTB spaced. But I got the kid to spin the pedals to see if it fits and he loves, loves, loves it.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

What I've come down to at the end of all this, after spending a week learning about the state of the art, is that I'd like a Fandango or similar with Boost spacing and some not too aggressive 27.5+ tires. I see that they're now available that way and it's a sweet spot for me, my own commuter/trail bike is a Salsa Timberjack and set up similar. But considering the price and the size of the kids, I'd like to use the kidback for a few years yet. Probably until my second son could conceivably ride a M/S frame with crank shorteners. Until then I'll see you on the road...


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

I've done a couple of decently long rides this week with all thee kids and I'm having third thoughts. The Burley with a kidback and trailer is laterally sloppy and vertically choppy. How come the Chariot gets suspension but I don't?  It makes me think that full suspension would be pretty ok for a road-going tandem if designed for the purpose. I can't really see how a suspension seat post is better than rear suspension. Of course there is no such bike, so it's moot, but it would make sense to me if there were.


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## unikid28 (Oct 11, 2017)

Front suspension makes a huge difference for the Captain. I put a Marzocchi DJ1 fork on my 26" tandem with intention of doing more dirt riding. Unfortunately the wife hasn't been too interested in that. 

But now with that fork on there it is nice and cushy for me up front. Dealing with curbs and other stuff is soooo much nicer. And the stoker never complains with the cushy seat and basic suspension seat post I put on back.

Sounds like the Fandango would solve your problem. Perhaps you could experiment with a cheap front fork now on your existing tandem just to get a taste what that might feel like. Though if your frame is already too big, the fork will add more standover problems.


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

We had a Burley Duet, and concur it was not a stiff frame. I maxed the frame with 35mm CX tires and still wanted more volume for the road rides we did on it. Sold that bike, as it was also too small. Had plans for a CoMotion Java, but until that happens, we have ridded our ECdM on the same rides (40 mile round-trip rail-to-trail). 

We HATED it on our ECdM. Just the wrong positioning for road riding, though the large-volume tires and suspension made the ride smooth. 

Now, we did not change anything from our off-road setup, but it's our off-road bike. Maybe you could convert an off-road bike to ride fine on road, but if road (or gravel) is your jam, and you're looking to spend a bunch of money and buy new, I'd suggest something more built for purpose.


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