# Garmin Sucks



## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Garmin products suck. 


I just got an Edge 810. Spent two hours downloading a map to an SD card.

The device cannot locate the map to enable it even though the .img file shows up on the device when connected to the computer.

I tried the same thing last night. Didn't work. I surfed the internet a bit and discovered the card has to be in the FAT32 format. 

Fair enough although Garmin should tell you this. Tried it with a Scandisk MicroSDHC that they swear up and down is so formatted.

Nothing.

Oh, and the interface is complicated, it has thousands of features I don't really want. I got it for the turn by turn navigation capability and it's ability to download topo maps.


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## plantdude (Dec 30, 2007)

While I can understand your frustration, myself and many others have had success downloading open source maps and using them. I have downloaded California (entire state) as well as Wisconsin (used it for backcountry exploring and fishing), and both worked fine. Yes, it could be more straight-forward no doubt about that.

Did you read any of the step-by-step tutorials that are out there? DC Rainmaker has a good one: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/05/download-garmin-705800810.html

If you don't want to deal with the hassle, you could just buy the garmin issued maps and be done with it.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

It is a Garmin map. Paid 99 bucks for it. 

That's the frustrating part. I'd understand if it was an open source map. But this is one they sell and it is supposed to be compatible.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

It's far easier to buy the Garmin maps that are already on a card. Plug it in and be done.

That said, I hope you didn't buy this thing for turn-by-turn navigation on trails.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Just a rant:

I have an iPhone, an iPad, and an iMac. All three are complicated devices with many functions and yet I turn them on, there's some simple setup questions, and they proceed to work flawlessly and I have never had any trouble with any of them. Not only that but they don't come with or need user manuals because almost everything about them is intuitive or can be picked up in a couple of hours.

The Garmin 810 is loaded with features, mostly ones I don't want. I bought it strictly for bikepacking navigation because it can, the advertisers say, download maps and provide turn-by-turn navigation on tracks that you can also load.

The ability to download maps is a basic feature. It can download them to the SD card; I see them on the drive, but the device itself will not recognize them so I am unable to "enable" the map.

I am not a computer guy. Messing with the internals of a device is not my hobby. I know I can get free maps and follow some complicated steps to get them to work but time is valuable, too so I paid $99 for a map that is supposed to work on an Edge 810, is supposed to download onto an SD card that is FAT32 formatted, and is supposed to appear on a menu of maps that are on the device and can be enabled.

Nothing. Just the crappy basemap that comes with the device.

If there is some arcane SD card that will work with the device or some memory limit Garmin should at least put that in their manual or on the website somewhere obvious. 

Again, I'm not pirating a map or loading third-party software onto the device; I downloaded it from Garmin.

What I'd like is a GPS that can accept maps and track, overlay the same, keep track of my position and show me when I go "off course," and provide basic things like speed, distance, and the like.

I don't need Bluetooth connectivity, the ability to instantly share my rides (as if anybody gives a crap anyway), laps, virtual training partners, or any of the other stuff.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

You are probably doing it wrong then. If you are not a computer person and want easy then you should have bought your maps preloaded onto a card.

If you want to do things more cheaply and have more flexibility you are going to have to learn more about computers.


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## plantdude (Dec 30, 2007)

You bought the right device, you just need to get it working. And it is possible there is hardware issue. I would agree that the garmin seems a few years (at least ) behind the technology in our phones/tablets. But then again, I wouldn't dare mount my iphone to my handlebars and take it out on a rainy muddy ride. Garmin can handle that without worry (I have the rubber case and a screen protector for it).

If you are hoping that you get turn by turn directions off road (once you get your maps loaded) you are in for a big disappointment. I've found that even the off-course notifications are almost useless and don't even use that feature.

Do you have any computer whiz friends? Maybe offer them some beers in exchange for helping you set it up. Hope it works out for you; it is a great toy if working properly...


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Harold said:


> You are probably doing it wrong then. If you are not a computer person and want easy then you should have bought your maps preloaded onto a card.
> 
> If you want to do things more cheaply and have more flexibility you are going to have to learn more about computers.


You missed the point. I don't want to do things more cheaply. The Garmin Edge is close to 400 bucks and the map was $99. It clearly says on the Garmin store that the map is compatible with the 810. On the contrary I'm willing to spend more money for a better product that is easier to use.

I am not pirating a map or using open source anything. And asking that a device work doing one of it's basic functions; the function that is used a the major selling point to differentiate it from cheaper models, is not a lack of flexibility on my part. It's just either poor design by Garmin or an unclear manual.

I should note that nobody online has any idea how to solve the problem.

I'm a physician and an engineer. I'm not a Luddite. I just don't want to spend a rare day off ****ing with a device that should work.

I'm sending it back. I'll do more research. Turn-by-turn is not that important. I just want to have the route overlayed on the map to see if I am still on it. I still carry laminated paper maps, too.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Gotta spend the time learning the device. No different than anything else. 

You are frankly a pretty typical doctor in the way you are handling this. This is not a piece of medical equipment. 

Millions of people by now have used a Garmin in one form or another. Yes, the manuals suck. They always have. I have been using them since Clinton turned off selective availability and kickstarted the consumer gps industry. The vast majority of people who have used them are able to figure them out. That you can't speaks to your stereotypical inflexibility. Get over yourself.

Want something that works like a phone app? Use a phone app. That stuff is for people who don't know what they are doing. Using a Garmin presupposes you know a few things. I think that's why Garmin's manual sucks as much as it does. They could write a textbook about everything their devices do. Once they start down that road, how much will they then have to explain what a function does and why? Slippery slope.

I do not understand your aversion to open source maps. There is nothing pirated about them. They are easy to use if you take a minute to figure it out. Which Garmin's maps probably are also. 

Have you called Garmin's tech support? Or have you only *****ed online?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Harold said:


> Gotta spend the time learning the device. No different than anything else.
> 
> You are frankly a pretty typical doctor in the way you are handling this. This is not a piece of medical equipment.
> 
> ...


LOL always laugh when I read posts like the OPs.

1000s of people can use it, but it must be crap since I can't figure it out.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

TwoTone said:


> LOL always laugh when I read posts like the OPs.
> 
> 1000s of people can use it, but it must be crap since I can't figure it out.


Apparently I am not the only one who has trouble with Garmin devices. The thing is that it works perfectly to just track a ride (speed, distance, average speed etc.) and that's what most people use it for.

Kind of like typical word processors and spreadsheets of which most people use only a small fraction of the functionality.

It's not that I can't figure it out, it's that it doesn't work. As advertised.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Harold said:


> Gotta spend the time learning the device. No different than anything else.
> 
> You are frankly a pretty typical doctor in the way you are handling this. This is not a piece of medical equipment.


Expensive equipment should work. Nothing to do with being a doctor. I guess my time is more valuable than yours.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Ailuropoda said:


> Apparently I am not the only one who has trouble with Garmin devices. The thing is that it works perfectly to just track a ride (speed, distance, average speed etc.) and that's what most people use it for.
> 
> Kind of like typical word processors and spreadsheets of which most people use only a small fraction of the functionality.
> 
> It's not that I can't figure it out, it's that it doesn't work. As advertised.


For any product there is a small subset that can't figure it out and blame the product. Again if 100's can and a few can't well you know.

I have trails overlaid on a Topo and it works fine, as advertised.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Ailuropoda said:


> Expensive equipment should work. Nothing to do with being a doctor. I guess my time is more valuable than yours.


And it does. Not Garmin's fault you can't be bothered to learn how to use it.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Ailuropoda said:


> Expensive equipment should work. Nothing to do with being a doctor. I guess my time is more valuable than yours.


FWIW, a $500 Garmin is not an expensive GPS, in the grand scheme of things. $10,000 survey grade hardware is a LOT more complicated. The Garmin is cake in comparison.

You're the one that brought up being a doctor. And there's a huge mentality from many (but not all) of your colleagues to be lazy about learning little things like this, and insist that they automatically be able to handle every device function right out of the box with no learning curve, or they dump that onto someone else to figure it out for them.


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## jim(tm) (Jul 2, 2008)

Maybe garmin sucks, but at least you didn't buy a magellan that randomly loses its base map and stops functioning.

If you don't have a folder named GARMIN on your SD card, try making one and copying the map file into that or cable the GPS up to the computer and copy it into the GARMIN folder in the GPS itself. If I remember right, I had to do that with my etrex 30. I'm pretty sure the file has to be named GMAPSUPP.IMG also so that's something to try if it isn't already.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Harold said:


> FWIW, a $500 Garmin is not an expensive GPS, in the grand scheme of things. $10,000 survey grade hardware is a LOT more complicated. The Garmin is cake in comparison.
> 
> You're the one that brought up being a doctor. And there's a huge mentality from many (but not all) of your colleagues to be lazy about learning little things like this, and insist that they automatically be able to handle every device function right out of the box with no learning curve, or they dump that onto someone else to figure it out for them.


I was a Marine infantryman for almost eight years, I went to college and became a structural engineer, and later in life (at 38) I went to medical school.

You'll laugh but at my first attempt at college in 1981 (I failed out) I wrote my first computer program on punch cards in a long-forgotten language called FORTRAN77 and for a project for one class I wrote an assembler for the old PDP11.

Doctors are not lazy in the slightest degree, intellectually or otherwise. I've got four years of medical school and four years of residency training to prove this spending most of the time learning millions of "little things," sometimes over the course of an 120 hour work week.

Consequently we have a low tolerance for having our time wasted which is not the same thing as being lazy.

The device simply does not work for one of its basic functions.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

And I'm not quite sure why everyone is a fanboy for Garmin. My criticism of Garmin is not meant as a personal attack.

Additionally, a lot of the advice to fix problems on MTBR is of the "just machine a new bottom bracket, ream it out to manufacturers tolerances, TIG weld it in place, and voila! problem solved" variety.

Whatever the case, the seller is taking it back and will refund my money. I'll probably try an eTrex 20 or 30. The consensus on many online forums seems to be that this is a better option for bikepacking anyway.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

jim(tm) said:


> Maybe garmin sucks, but at least you didn't buy a magellan that randomly loses its base map and stops functioning.
> 
> If you don't have a folder named GARMIN on your SD card, try making one and copying the map file into that or cable the GPS up to the computer and copy it into the GARMIN folder in the GPS itself. If I remember right, I had to do that with my etrex 30. I'm pretty sure the file has to be named GMAPSUPP.IMG also so that's something to try if it isn't already.


Tried all that. The map won't fit on the internal memory of the 810. It's 1.4 GB.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Ailuropoda said:


> And I'm not quite sure why everyone is a fanboy for Garmin. My criticism of Garmin is not meant as a personal attack.
> 
> Additionally, a lot of the advice to fix problems on MTBR is of the "just machine a new bottom bracket, ream it out to manufacturers tolerances, TIG weld it in place, and voila! problem solved" variety.
> 
> Whatever the case, the seller is taking it back and will refund my money. I'll probably try an eTrex 20 or 30. The consensus on many online forums seems to be that this is a better option for bikepacking anyway.


Not fanboys, just not web whiners bashing the company when the fault lies elsewhere. I bought my 810, had some trouble did some research asked on here and got everything working.
Thing works great.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Yeah, Garmins do have their limitations. I'm irritated by the increase in features I don't want (with few choices that DO have the features I want) along with reductions in battery life and growth in screen size. That's why I'm still using devices that are many years old. Garmin does a poor job with computer software, to be true. I avoid it unless absolutely impossible (which means pretty much loading maps onto my Oregon, or downloading activities from my Forerunner). But it's not impossible to figure out. Maybe your particular device has a problem. That happens sometimes (Garmin released a firmware update that bricked an Edge 705 of mine years ago), but a phone call to Garmin frequently helps. 

Whining here doesn't help your situation any. We're not Garmin. I save my b!tching for the Garmin forums, where I can address my comments directly to Garmin staff.

And yet the fact remains that nobody does dedicated outdoor/fitness GPS receivers better. Still. Any competitors are playing catch-up.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Ailuropoda said:


> Tried all that. The map won't fit on the internal memory of the 810. It's 1.4 GB.


Not sure what you ended up doing, but putting it on an external card with enough memory, in a Garmin folder, giving it any name at all and it'll work.

Just did this with my local street maps and topos.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

NordieBoy said:


> Not sure what you ended up doing, but putting it on an external card with enough memory, in a Garmin folder, giving it any name at all and it'll work.
> 
> Just did this with my local street maps and topos.


I returned the device, got an Etrex 30, and it works perfectly. A few simple steps and I was able to download maps both into the device's memory and onto an SD card.

I like the Etrex better, anyways. My generator hub is usually charging the lights or the iPhone and the AA batteries seem more reliable and it's not that difficult carrying spares.

Plus the touch screen is harder to use with gloves on so I like the external buttons and the joystick.

Plus it goes about 22 hours on one set of batteries or about 18 if I use the backlight a lot (which I don't have to do most of the time).

Garmin really needs to up their manual game, though.


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

As someone who is in the market for a GPS, I followed this thread closely.

A quick summary:

Thread title: "Garmin Sucks" 
First line of Original Post: "Garmin products suck."
End Result: Returned product for another Garmin product.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

And, as an owner of two Garmin devices, Garmin still sucks.


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