# DH or FR bike? Pros and cons of each please



## Boylerules (Jul 30, 2009)

Hiya,

I'm considering a bigger bike for gravity riding. I currently have a Titus El Guapo which is my do it all bike. I have it built up pretty burly and use it for trail riding and some light freeride, but I'd like a bigger bike for life assisted bike park riding.

The local hill, Stevens Pass, is working on a bike park and I'm only four hours from Whistler. I may take it to some local freeride trails, but the El Guapo can handle that pretty well and a DH bike would probably be overkill.

I'm drawn to the DH bike because of the huge travel, though DH bikes really seem geared to racing, which I am not interested in. Is a DH bike overkill for my needs? Would a 180mm freeride bike be better? Or is a full up DH bike the way to go?

What is your opinion? By the way, money doesn't really enter into the equation here, so don't let price influence your opinion. Thanks!


----------



## SoCalNomadRider (Jan 15, 2011)

"THE ONE" Done 
http://forums.mtbr.com/canfield/2011-canfield-bros-one-info-688360.html


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

SoCalNomadRider said:


> "THE ONE" Done
> http://forums.mtbr.com/canfield/2011-canfield-bros-one-info-688360.html


yeah a great choice....also look into the Santa Cruz Nomads, Specialized SX and Intense Uzzis or 951's


----------



## genemk (Sep 15, 2009)

I used to ride a Norco Shore (beefy freeride bike) for a year and finally tried a full on DH bike last June (Norco Team DH). Long story short I had a DH bike within a few days, haha. The main differences I noticed:

DH bike: more stable through the rough due to slacker geo and dual-crown fork. Lower BB allows you to rail corners better with more speed. More plush and tracks better through rough sections so you can again carry more speed. Depending on what bike you get might not be quite as lively, poppy or maneuverable as a freeride bike. 

Freeride: more lively and poppy, easier to make tight turns with single-crown. 

Personally, I'm stoked on my DH bike. I sold the freeride bike. If you're going to be riding Whistler/Stevens Pass (which I do as well since I live in Portland) I'd get a full DH rig. I think you can find plenty of DH bikes that are still plenty fun to jump (some are so ploughy that they suck up the jumps a bit too much). You can also always throw on a slightly stiffer spring for the smoother more freeride type trails. I found that my Team DH jumps almost as well as the Shore and does almost everything else better. On the flip side you will really appreciate the DH bike on some of the steep rocky trails at Whistler, or even just flying down A-line you'll be able to carry a bit more speed. 

Look for a DH bike that people say jumps decently (maybe with 8" travel or so in the back) and you'll probably be stoked.


----------



## Boylerules (Jul 30, 2009)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> yeah a great choice....also look into the Santa Cruz Nomads, Specialized SX and Intense Uzzis or 951's


The One is definitely an interesting bike, can be set up either way.

I'm not interested in a Nomad. I would consider them the same class as my El Guapo.

The SX Trail & Uzzi seem to be in that Freeride category and the 951 in the full up DH bike.

I'm not really looking for direct recommendations on bike models, more what _class_ bike would be closer to the ideal for my uses. Thanks for the opinions so far.


----------



## Boylerules (Jul 30, 2009)

genemk said:


> I used to ride a Norco Shore (beefy freeride bike) for a year and finally tried a full on DH bike last June (Norco Team DH). Long story short I had a DH bike within a few days, haha. The main differences I noticed:
> 
> DH bike: more stable through the rough due to slacker geo and dual-crown fork. Lower BB allows you to rail corners better with more speed. More plush and tracks better through rough sections so you can again carry more speed. Depending on what bike you get might not be quite as lively, poppy or maneuverable as a freeride bike.
> 
> ...


Thanks, thats exactly the type of experience I was hoping to hear about.


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

IMHO, if you already have a heavy trail bike a FR bike would be too much overlap. Go for the DH and shred it!


----------



## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

The Canfield One would be a good choice. You could still pedal it to the top even which is a bonus.

Another bike that would be the perfect compromise between FR and DH is the Transition TR250. 160 or 180 travel, adjustable head angle and bottom bracket hight, adjustable chainstays. You can run it nice and slack so it would be stable yet with the 180 travel it would jump a bit better and be more lively then a DH bike. Might not be as fast through the really rough stuff but would be a blast on everything else. Only downside is it doesn't have a pedal friendly seat tube so you need to take that into consideration.


----------



## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Canfield one.


----------



## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

QUESTION: ..want a big bike to have fun on but don't care for DH racing.

ANSWER: 
look at one of the many FR rigs on the market at the moment. 
many have adjustable travel and/or geometry. 
you can always switch from a single crown to a dual crown depending on your mood/trail/resort. 
shock tuning can give you FR performance or DH performance.. and a well tuned 180mm bike will work better than any poorly tuned 200+mm bike.

That's my 2 cents. Keep in mind that today's FR bikes are practically DH bikes from a couple years back geometry wise, if that means anything to you. 
Good luck!


----------



## titusbro (Oct 15, 2004)

*I also want a little more...*

I also own an El Guapo as my daily ride. Last Christmas, I installed a Fox 180 Talas and it really made the bike shine on the steep chunk while still climbing very well in the 140 mode.

I can ride 90% of everything Phoenix and Arizona has to offer... but I wanted more. So I (very) recently, picked up a DH bike, for that chance to ride that last 5%. It's my first DH bike and I will be taking it out this Saturday for the maiden voyage:thumbsup: I am stoked to find out how the other 5% lives!


----------



## Boylerules (Jul 30, 2009)

PsyCro said:


> QUESTION: ..want a big bike to have fun on but don't care for DH racing.
> 
> ANSWER:
> look at one of the many FR rigs on the market at the moment.
> ...


Could you elaborate more on _why_ to choose a 180mm bike? I expect my usage to be mostly lift assisted resorts. For the local freeride trails I would expect to stick with my El Guapo, unless the new bike inspires me. What advantages would the 180mm bike provide? Better jumping? Cornering? What are the tradeoffs?

As for the tuning, why would you expect the 200mm bike to be tuned poorly and the 180mm bike to be tuned well? Is ease of dialing in the bike something to look at? Are DH rigs more difficult to tune? I assumed it would be roughly the same process as my AM bike.

Thanks for your opinion, I look forward to more info.
Thanks for the input.


----------



## Boylerules (Jul 30, 2009)

titusbro said:


> I also own an El Guapo as my daily ride. Last Christmas, I installed a Fox 180 Talas and it really made the bike shine on the steep chunk while still climbing very well in the 140 mode.
> 
> I can ride 90% of everything Phoenix and Arizona has to offer... but I wanted more. So I (very) recently, picked up a DH bike, for that chance to ride that last 5%. It's my first DH bike and I will be taking it out this Saturday for the maiden voyage:thumbsup: I am stoked to find out how the other 5% lives!


That an 08? That's what I have. I have a Fox 36 Van on there that I'm pretty happy with and I have a CCDB in the back. Its pretty much perfect for the "do it all" category.

Good luck with the first ride on the Rocky Mountain. Its a beautiful bike.


----------



## schlockinz (Feb 6, 2009)

banshee scythe, a large FR bike that can handle DH well, unless you want to race. Can run an 8" DC in the front, or a 7" SC


----------



## jtnord (Jun 5, 2010)

Boylerules said:


> That an 08? That's what I have. I have a Fox 36 Van on there that I'm pretty happy with and I have a CCDB in the back. Its pretty much perfect for the "do it all" category.
> 
> Good luck with the first ride on the Rocky Mountain. Its a beautiful bike.


Sounds like you are set for light freeride capability. Definitely go all out with a DH bike! I have a 180mm do all bike. I go DHing with my buddy and we are on about the same level skill wise but he has a full DH bike (Cove Shocker) and can smoke me because of it.

Lower, slacker, and more travel = faster with more confidence and more fun!

If money is no issue then go to some parks and rent some bikes. See what you like, demo them.:thumbsup:


----------



## genemk (Sep 15, 2009)

Boylerules said:


> Could you elaborate more on _why_ to choose a 180mm bike? I expect my usage to be mostly lift assisted resorts. For the local freeride trails I would expect to stick with my El Guapo, unless the new bike inspires me. What advantages would the 180mm bike provide? Better jumping? Cornering? What are the tradeoffs?
> 
> As for the tuning, why would you expect the 200mm bike to be tuned poorly and the 180mm bike to be tuned well? Is ease of dialing in the bike something to look at? Are DH rigs more difficult to tune? I assumed it would be roughly the same process as my AM bike.
> 
> ...


Tuning wise it should be about the same. I would say besides losing a bit of playfulness and jumpability there is no downside to the DH bike. Yes, you can ride almost all the same stuff on a freeride bike as I've done it, but will you enjoy it more and charge it harder on the DH bike? Yes! Since you already have a trail bike and you plan to ride mostly resorts I'd definitely go full DH. There's really no downside to having a DH bike for Whistler unless you're wanting to get aggressive with tricks and jumping. If you could only have one do it all bike then you'd need to consider your options more.

Here are some DH bikes that my friends and/or I have ridden that are good for steeps and fun to jump:
Specialized Demo 8
Norco Team DH (2010-2011 models) (the 2012 Aurum looks even better, but I haven't tried it)
Canfield Jedi
Intense 951? (don't have as much feedback on this one)

Just make sure the bike is 40lbs or less and it'll be plenty lively and fun. You can get lots of DH bikes these days in the 35-40lbs range depending on your price range.


----------



## meSSican (Aug 8, 2010)

I would say go with a DH bike because i think the EG could handle the FR aspect decently. I was debating getting a FR or a DH bike and i went with a FR (Scott Voltage FR). I have only used if for Northstar (DH bike park) and it handles the single blacks fine (awesome for Livewire) but on the doubles it gets a little sketchy. Granted i am new to DH and not a great rider but somewhat wish i went with a DH specific bike. I got to ride a '12 Demo 1 on the same trails i was used to there and went faster and felt more stable. Rider skill probably has alot to do with it but this is just my experience.


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

meSSican said:


> I got to ride a '12 Demo 1 on the same trails i was used to there and went faster and felt more stable. Rider skill probably has alot to do with it but this is just my experience.


Tara Llannes weekend?

I also demoed the 12 demo 8 at northstar, and it was so much better than my bike, which is a 2002 Intense M1 with 9.5"travel rear, and 8" up front. Then again I ride Janky all the time and my suspension was rebuilt a year ago when i was 20 lbs less... amd the Demo had top of the line specs.

Good tuning > Travel.


----------



## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

climbingbubba said:


> The Canfield One would be a good choice. You could still pedal it to the top even which is a bonus.
> 
> Another bike that would be the perfect compromise between FR and DH is the Transition TR250. 160 or 180 travel, adjustable head angle and bottom bracket hight, adjustable chainstays. You can run it nice and slack so it would be stable yet with the 180 travel it would jump a bit better and be more lively then a DH bike. Might not be as fast through the really rough stuff but would be a blast on everything else. Only downside is it doesn't have a pedal friendly seat tube so you need to take that into consideration.


I don't see much added value in a bike that can converted to travel that's similar to the bike already has.  Given that the OP already has an AM bike with a decent amount of travel, I suggest skipping The One and going straight to the Jedi.

I pedal my Jedi to the top of my local (and admittedly small) hill with no trouble. The seat tube is long enough for KindShock's longest telescoping post, and it works out very nicely. It does bob noticeably if I stand up and mash the pedals, but it climbs just fine if I keep my butt on the seat.

I'm running mine with a Fox 180 Van for now, but might upgrade to a dual-crown when Stevens opens up next summer. I'm kinda bummed about missing the opener this year.


----------



## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

The one essentially is a downhill bike first and can be altered for different styles aw well as pedalls incredible and dual ring capable. Been beeting on mine sold for a week now and love it.
I had the first Jedi stateside back in 08, f1s before that and every year Jedi since with exception to 2011.

Love the Jedi and will be on another for the nasty stuff but the one won't back down and will run like any other dh bike as far as capability.
It will literally be the one that's ridden 90% of the time and pops like a rock star.

That being said if you have a free ride bike go for a dh sled, me I want 1 bike that can handle the nasty stuff and drops race dh and still go ride to the top. Nothing like going some place and being out gunned because of terrain, the one is fully capable.


----------



## staikeinthahood (Oct 8, 2008)

I came from an Iron Horse 7point (180 mm freeride bike) and bought a Trek Session a month or so ago. It is better in all areas. I don't have those tight slow corners where a double crown bike limits my steering, so that's not a problem at all. The bike is MUCH stiffer, yet softer due to more travel front and rear. It pedals pretty much the same but in the terrain a full on dh bike is WAY more balanced and controlled. I don't have that "hold on for dear life" feeling in sketchy situations anymore, sure things get sketchy as **** every now and then, but I have much more confidence in the bike and I ride much faster now after I got used to all the benefits of a DH bike.

If you're riding DH trails, not only those jumpy flowy trails, get a DH bike. My vote goes for Trek Session, I don't have a single negative thing so say about the bike yet. Sure there's other bikes out there that probably do the job as well, but a Session is definitely a bike you would want to consider.


----------



## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

Like Titusbro, I too roll an 08 El Guapo as my do-it-all bike, which includes some substantial freeride use, and here's my take on your query: The only places I like my DH bike better than the EG is the uber chunky, uber technical, and uber steep stuff. For jumping and dropping I prefer the EG more than anything else out there, although I will admit more travel gives you a slightly larger margin for error. To put my comments in context, my current ride is a 7'' travel FR rig, the EG's awaiting its next rotation in my closet, and I also have a 9'' travel dh bike, so I feel pretty well qualified to add some input.

Titusbro, awesome dh sled man!

Oh right, I'm supposed to give you some input  Go with a full blown dh bike, a FR bike will basically be just like your El Guapo. What are the pros riding at Rampage? Not FR bikes.


----------



## Boylerules (Jul 30, 2009)

Thanks for the input everyone. Your input has basically confirmed what I expected: A full blown DH bike is the way to go for me. A 180mm freeride bike would just be too much overlap with what I ride already. 

Now I just have to figure out what to look for. The Jedi is high on the list. My buddy has a Knolly Podium which he loves. Anyone have any opinions on suspension design for DH? DW vs Horst vs Four by 4, etc. My experience on trail bikes is limited to Horst link. It seems the DW-link is the hottness right now.

Thanks again everyone.


----------



## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Just sold my Jedi a few months ago and spent time on a Sunday right after there's definently differences between them. Both have huge strong points and still pedal decent not xc good but good for a beast.
Sunday corners faster (dw link) but the way the curve is it fades away and gets softer which is a plus minus but a very fast bike. Doesn't hang up on square edge hits like a conventional wheelpath bike.
Dw link is a impressive set up for sure

Jedi is rearward and has little to no pedal feedback but will smooth out the nasty stuff alot better, doesn't corner as fast and will soak up jumps. Has a couple settings this year allowing adjustment to a more progressive setting which takes care of the uber plush ride and makes it more bike park friendly.
It will save your @$$ on a nasty landings and big big rock gardens but still pick up speed.

Rode horst links and they pedal well react well and can't say they are the end all dh set up but for a mkxxed bag of tricks they are a great all arounder.

Not a fan of fsr at all, would like to try the 88 and the new glory as well.

Good luck and yeah if you like your current free ride then good choice for designated dh.

Should see if you can get saddle time on some different bikes first though as different stroks for different folks.

The Jedi is a hands down beast though and will destroy nasty stuff.


----------



## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

These days I'm all about the canfield one. You can set it up with full blown DH geometry, or with aggressive trail/AM 160mm travel geo. Not many bikes out there so versatile.


----------



## Boylerules (Jul 30, 2009)

William42 said:


> These days I'm all about the canfield one. You can set it up with full blown DH geometry, or with aggressive trail/AM 160mm travel geo. Not many bikes out there so versatile.


It sounds like a great bike and has a great reputation.

I don't need versatility. I'm actually looking for more or less single use.


----------



## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

Boylerules said:


> It sounds like a great bike and has a great reputation.
> 
> I don't need versatility. I'm actually looking for more or less single use.


well if you don't need versatility, and you're just trying to decide what to get, don't get a freeride bike if you already have an AM bike. Too much overlap. Get a full on DH bike. If you're doing slopestyle, then get a 4-5 inch slopestyle bike. If your running laps on A line, or trails similar to it and its mostly fairly smooth, bikes like the intense slopestyle are great. If you're going to be riding on steep trails with big jumps and drops, get a DH bike. They don't pedal well, but neither do FR bikes, and you give up too much on the descents with a FR bike IMO.


----------



## daynegrant (Aug 29, 2011)

I have the Canfield one and the RM Flatline. I deem the flatline to be one of the best DH bikes, but the one is quite a bit faster, more plush, versatile, and can climb anything. No other bike I'm aware of can do all it does. I've never had more fun. It does everything an all-mountain, FR, and DH rig can do if not better than the best of any bike. I have nothing but wow to say about the one. If versatile doesn't matter, then neither should this bike, it is still possibly the best in any area. Not just good, but amazing.


----------



## daynegrant (Aug 29, 2011)

I think the DW link lacks in plushness and isn't as fluid. It is not up to par compared to One, Jedi, Flatline, and 951 to name a few.


----------



## nponto (Jul 26, 2011)

Boylerules said:


> .....What is your opinion? By the way, money doesn't really enter into the equation here, so don't let price influence your opinion. Thanks!


Well, you have already answered most of it there.
If money is not an issue just get a DH specific bike. It will perform much better on DH specific bike park than a burly build AM bike.

I'm not saying that burly build AM bike will not perform well on descend


----------

