# DBR Titanium Frameset/Build-up (big pics--sorry)



## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

Just picked up a late-90's/early 2000's frame to build-up (going to use a Trigon carbon fork). It is definitely a DBR (DBR serial number), made in the US, and disk-brake compatible. Can anyone tell me what the headset size is? It's got cups in it that I need to drift out, and I'm hoping its a 1 1/8", but it looks like it might be a 1.25"?

TIA!


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## KiwiJohn (Feb 6, 2007)

1 1/8 headset. 
Can you post a pic of the disc mount as it's certainly not standard. These were only made in the mid 90s,


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## Hardguy (Nov 4, 2006)

I think DBR only had the ti frame from 93 to 95. Looks good and should make a light bike w/ the trigon fork.


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

Thanks KiwiJohn. I'm trying to score a nice ChrisKing headset... Here's a picture of the caliper mounts:










Yeah, I can't wait to build it up. I want a comfy/strong/cool commuter, and have seen some MTB's built up with Trigons--they look fantastic and must be unreal to ride with slicks!


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Nice, you'll have to get the propper stickers for it. Don't remember the TT's comming with a head badge like that.

...and whats with the end of the chain and seat stays at the drop out, could be my monitor but looks like some heat has gone through there? or could just be dirt...
Not sure i'd trust the frame with the disc adaption, but it could last forever...


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## Hardguy (Nov 4, 2006)

+1 Mik_git. Looking at the first pic and the last, the drive side seat stay and the dropout does look a little off aligned compared to the non-drive side. Also the weld on the last pic doesn't look original (kind of too smooth and a little shiny). Since the OP said he was going to use it as a commuter with slicks, it should be fine.


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

It will see some light trail use, but I have a C-Dale Taurine for the "serious" rides. This will be more of a "fun" bike, for trips to the beach, maybe some commuting or riding for leisure. 

The frame was dirty in those pics--it looks much better cleaned-up. I'll post progress pics when some of the major parts come in (the aforementioned Trigon, newer cranks, wheelset, etc.). 

I could have bought a new Chinese frame for the same money, but the idea of rescuing/recycling a frame like this appeals to me greatly...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

flex city cycles.


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

colker1 said:


> flex city cycles.


 Huh?


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

BTW, is the seat post a 27.0 or a 27.2? I really should buy a set of calipers...


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Erwin8r said:


> BTW, is the seat post a 27.0 or a 27.2? I really should buy a set of calipers...


My 2005 took a 27.0 post.


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## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

Definitely '93 to '95 as it still has the cantilever brake cable routing present. Disc brake mount has been a later add on. 

No fancy head badges either, just stickers at that time.

I think Colker means there will be some frame flex present Erwin. They do build into a very light bike. I tested the LBS owner's bike that was an Axis TT in 1994, and it was a very quick climbing bike, quite springy when compared to my '93 steel Axis.

What's the head tube length and seat tube length? It could give you an idea if it has suspension corrected geometry based on the head tube length. My 19" Axis (1993) has a 5 & 1/4" head tube for rigid geometry IIRC.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I believe (could be wrong) that it has the same geometry as the axis steel version, did look it up years ago when i was thinking of tracking one down to replace my axis TR (94), which can use up to 80mm no worried 100mm is not so good. I ran M3 regular and with long travel and also an EFC with no ill effects.

I think


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

no chain stay seat stay bridge on the disc mount?:skep:


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

hence why I wouldn't really want to run disc... but you never know could last for ever.


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

Thanks for the responses, guys. I'm betting it won't be a problem with my intended use, but I will keep an eye on things...

Here is the parts list so far:

Trigon carbon rigid fork
Mavic 317 wheesl with Chris King hubs (disk)
Chris King Headset
XTR M971 Rear Der.
SRAM X9 Front Der.
Thomson 100mm Stem 
Race Face Next Carbon Fat Bar
Specialized ti-railed saddle
Syncros ti post (might use a Thomson instead)

Still looking to get XTR shifters, Avid Juicy Ultimate brakes, and maybe an FSA carbon crankset (for a 2x9)...

I'll keep you all posted...


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## aa240sx (Jun 28, 2008)

Erwin8r said:


> Thanks for the responses, guys. I'm betting it won't be a problem with my intended use, but I will keep an eye on things...
> 
> Here is the parts list so far:
> 
> ...


Definitely makes for an interesting build. Not sure the disc brakes qualify for vintage but like earliers posts have already indicated, it was definitely not on the DBR's from the mid 90s. anyway.


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

Progress pics and notes:

A lot of the parts have been sourced/come in. I went from the ridiculous to the sublime with some... 

For example, the Hope mono-4 brakes can be considered over-kill... hehehehe.... LOL! I got a nice set of Mavic 317's built on King Disc hubs, and a nice King headset. The pics below are a "mock up" of the bike (still waiting on the headset removal/press tools).

I just got handed my old-Skool Syncros aluminum post. I almost bought a Ti, but I wanted the black post to contrast with the Ti frame, and I found a vintage aluminum 27.0 Syncros...

I've ordered up a set of XTR shifters (M970), and am going to use an Ultegra 11-34 9-speed cassette (M960). My Michelin slicks came in too--got a nice deal on the pair.

Haven't decided on the cranks yet--newer carbon FSA's would look cool, but these XTR's spin soooo smooooooth... Maybe just get these powder-coated?

Still waiting on rotors/IS/Post adapters, and, misc. bits... This is fun. Expensive, but fun...























































]


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

I'm confused as to why you built that bike with those parts, only to use it as a slick-clad commuter.

Are you sure it's not a Klein?


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

jtmartino said:


> I'm confused as to why you built that bike with those parts, only to use it as a slick-clad commuter.
> 
> Are you sure it's not a Klein?


Why are you so confused? Do all of your bikes fit perfect segments of a certain niche population? It will get knobbies too (maybe some 819's), but I'm building it in a way that is fun for me and it will be very practical... as I mentioned before, I have a "serious" moutain bike in my Taurine (and my Santa Cruz Heckler...), and a roadbike in my Seven ID8--this one is a bit of a dream bike, a bit of a fun bike, and should be very practical for the way I intend to use it. I just gave my Specialized Globe 3 to my 18-year old son--that was a cool conversion that didn't really fit a mold. It has a rigid aluminun fork, disc brakes, slicks, and X7 running gear--and it was the dog's bollox on the Burke Gilman trail for just about everything I wanted to do when I was in Seattle recently. My son has knobbies on it now and terrorizes the trails around Pasadena. When he takes it to school, the slicks go on...

And regarding the "Klein" comment, my first real montain bike was a Klein Pinnacle--why roll your eyes at a Klein? That thing had a Manitou suspension fork AND a rear rack--and it saw a lot of use from Red Box to JPL in the Angeles National Forest...

Anyway, back to my DBR...


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## A-Ray (Oct 18, 2009)

If you look for replacement decals and find a source, please let me know.
I have a DBR V8 and have been looking for a couple weeks now with no luck.
Nice pick up by the way...


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

A-Ray said:


> If you look for replacement decals and find a source, please let me know.
> I have a DBR V8 and have been looking for a couple weeks now with no luck.
> Nice pick up by the way...


Thanks A-Ray. I'll definitely let you know. Decals are on my list--apparently this one has a head badge from a newer Diamondback, and custom decals.


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## aa240sx (Jun 28, 2008)

jtmartino said:


> I'm confused as to why you built that bike with those parts, only to use it as a slick-clad commuter.
> 
> Are you sure it's not a Klein?


It doesn't quite fit the standard definition of any bike, but I think that's the point. I run 700x34C's on my 29er and get quite a few stares, but it's purpose built for neighborhood/commute riding as well.

To each his own - I say.

To the OP - Is that a road fork? Wouldn't that affect geometry running it on this bike?


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

aa240sx said:


> It doesn't quite fit the standard definition of any bike, but I think that's the point. I run 700x34C's on my 29er and get quite a few stares, but it's purpose built for neighborhood/commute riding as well.
> 
> To each his own - I say.
> 
> To the OP - Is that a road fork? Wouldn't that affect geometry running it on this bike?


It's actually a mountain fork, designed to be "suspension corrected" for about 100mm of travel. I know it will slacken my trail a bit, but I'm going to give it a shot (if you do a search here on MTBR, you'll see how many cool other bikes are sporting this fork or something similar--there are some incredbile builds out there, and they were part of my inspiration). And your first paragraph is right on! I almost bought a 29'er Ti frame with just that purpose in mind--but I so liked the way Globe was sucha utilitarian-yet-fun bike, that I decided to stick with 26" wheels--for now.. :thumbsup:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

jtmartino said:


> I'm confused as to why you built that bike with those parts, only to use it as a slick-clad commuter.
> 
> Are you sure it's not a Klein?


I'm with ya on this one. All the bling and fluff and effort....and then slicks. Makes no sense at all to me.

Its like like buying a sports car, but then opting for an automatic transmission and only using it to get groceries.


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

Rumpfy said:


> I'm with ya on this one. All the bling and fluff and effort....and then slicks. Makes no sense at all to me.
> 
> Its like like buying a sports car, but then opting for an automatic transmission and only using it to get groceries.


Tell ya what, you guys don't want to read about it, move on to another post. I'm not here to make you happy, nor does my bike have to makes sense to you--and it's easy enough to by-pass/ignore my post. Move on.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Erwin8r said:


> Why are you so confused? Do all of your bikes fit perfect segments of a certain niche population? It will get knobbies too (maybe some 819's), but I'm building it in a way that is fun for me and it will be very practical... as I mentioned before, I have a "serious" moutain bike in my Taurine (and my Santa Cruz Heckler...), and a roadbike in my Seven ID8--this one is a bit of a dream bike, a bit of a fun bike, and should be very practical for the way I intend to use it. I just gave my Specialized Globe 3 to my 18-year old son--that was a cool conversion that didn't really fit a mold. It has a rigid aluminun fork, disc brakes, slicks, and X7 running gear--and it was the dog's bollox on the Burke Gilman trail for just about everything I wanted to do when I was in Seattle recently. My son has knobbies on it now and terrorizes the trails around Pasadena. When he takes it to school, the slicks go on...
> 
> And regarding the "Klein" comment, my first real montain bike was a Klein Pinnacle--why roll your eyes at a Klein? That thing had a Manitou suspension fork AND a rear rack--and it saw a lot of use from Red Box to JPL in the Angeles National Forest...
> 
> Anyway, back to my DBR...


The Klein comment was in reference to the fact that many people who own Kleins have relegated them to slick duty, which makes those of us who actually MTB shake our heads on disgust. Stick around the forums long enough and you'll figure it out on your own.

But don't get too upset about my confusion, people do weird stuff all the time. Like those guys who get fancy rims and expensive sound systems for their 1998 Honda Civics .

FWIW, here's my low-end Ti frame from the Mid 90s set up for commuter duty. Notice the mostly-period-correct parts and knobby tires (even though I live in SF.)


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

But seriously, it's probably a good thing you have those Hope brakes on there. I heard they have good modulation, which is really important when flying down the block and that stop sign jumps outta nowhere!


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

jtmartino said:


> The Klein comment was in reference to the fact that many people who own Kleins have relegated them to slick duty, which makes those of us who actually MTB shake our heads on disgust. Stick around the forums long enough and you'll figure it out on your own.
> 
> But don't get too upset about my confusion, people do weird stuff all the time. Like those guys who get fancy rims and expensive sound systems for their 1998 Honda Civics .
> 
> FWIW, here's my low-end Ti frame from the Mid 90s set up for commuter duty. Notice the mostly-period-correct parts and knobby tires (even though I live in SF.)


Thanks for your reasonable response--and your bike looks very cool to me.. but imagine how much nicer it would roll in San Francisco with slicks... 

When I ride knobbies on asphalt (it happens from time to time), I always cringe at the thought of wasting/wearing my expensive nobbies out, and I never "ride in peace." Hence, my propensity for having two sets of wheels for bieks that I enjoy to ride. I'm not about "bling," but about having a blast on good, properly-working equipment.


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

jtmartino said:


> But seriously, it's probably a good thing you have those Hope brakes on there. I heard they have good modulation, which is really important when flying down the block and that stop sign jumps outta nowhere!


The Hope's are over kill, for sure--heck, they're stronger than any of the brakes on my other bikes--but they're going on for now. If I feel too ridiculous, I'll slap the Juicy Ultimates on. I drew the line on the 203mm rotors, though.. LOL!! Going with 160 rear/180 front.

And I don't think I've ever heard of anyone complainging about "too much brake..." when railing downhill... Stop signs or stupid cagers, good brakes=good. :thumbsup:


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Erwin8r said:


> Thanks for your reasonable response--and your bike looks very cool to me.. but imagine how much nicer it would roll in San Francisco with slicks...
> 
> When I ride knobbies on asphalt (it happens from time to time), I always cringe at the thought of wasting/wearing my expensive nobbies out, and I never "ride in peace." Hence, my propensity for having two sets of wheels for bieks that I enjoy to ride. I'm not about "bling," but about having a blast on good, properly-working equipment.


Yeah, I thought the same thing about slicks, until I moved here. I think SF has maybe the second worst roads out of any city in America. 3 flats on my road bike in 3 months, after only 2 flats in the last 4 years of riding in San Diego.

The knobbies, while painfully slow, are inexpensive and comfortable. FWIW the bike is a Litespeed Obed with a Surly 1x1 fork, and mostly 1995-ish Shimano XT. Just around 23 pounds, and pretty nimble.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Erwin8r said:


> Tell ya what, you guys don't want to read about it, move on to another post. I'm not here to make you happy, nor does my bike have to makes sense to you--and it's easy enough to by-pass/ignore my post. Move on.


Aw, but the fact that my post made you upset makes me happy! If I would have by-pass/ignored your post, I would have missed out on this moment of pure joy for myself.


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## GoBuffs (Dec 7, 2009)

Erwin8r said:


> The Hope's are over kill, for sure--heck, they're stronger than any of the brakes on my other bikes--but they're going on for now. If I feel too ridiculous, I'll slap the Juicy Ultimates on. I drew the line on the 203mm rotors, though.. LOL!! Going with 160 rear/180 front.
> 
> And I don't think I've ever heard of anyone complainging about "too much brake..." when railing downhill... Stop signs or stupid cagers, good brakes=good. :thumbsup:


How is this VRC other than the frame? Isn't there a forum devoted to idiots wasting money?


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## proto2000 (Jan 27, 2007)

If it fly's, floats or f^cks, rent it.


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

I could put up with the build, I dont even mind the slicks, but that fork is just.............











fugly!


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## Erwin8r (Oct 26, 2006)

Done. She rides great. The more I look at it, the more I agree about the forks... They just look a bit fat and out of place. Probably gonna' try to dig up some wound-up type forks--but with db mounts  Went with the Juicy Ultimates instead of the Hopes for the same reason. Now looking for a set of Mavic 819's for the knobbies. I'll cut the steerer further when I settle on a bar position, and the brakes lines will be tidied up tonight. Cranks are butter smooth, so they're staying for a while. I thought about some classic Race Face square tapers, and they might still be the way to go.

And for the record, the Syncros post, cranks, headset, and frame are mid-90's vintage...


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

I think I might be part of that ever dwindling minority that thinks a mountain bike with slicks is pretty much the best bike that ever was for bombing around a city (and just a quick tire change change away from being the best bike ever).


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I understand that people aren't too happy with this build (yes the forks are..um... well...) because it is a really nice frame to jsut turn into a commuter, but then again, if yer gunna use it, you may as well use a nice frame that will handle and be comfortable. And while this is a bit of a desirable frame, its not exactly super desirable... (but I'll happily swap my steel version for it!).

But change those stickers, source some proper ones, other wise its looking like crappy cheap DB, which it isn't...


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

mainlyfats said:


> I think I might be part of that ever dwindling minority that thinks a mountain bike with slicks is pretty much the best bike that ever was for bombing around a city (and just a quick tire change change away from being the best bike ever).


I'm in your camp.
I commuted for a couple years in Tokyo on my '91 Yo Eddy with 1.125 slick tires and a 53t ring. The bike hauled ass twenty kilometers each way  It felt like a super motard MX bike.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Erwin8r said:


> Done. She rides great. The more I look at it, the more I agree about the forks... They just look a bit fat and out of place. Probably gonna' try to dig up some wound-up type forks--but with db mounts


I agree the Wound-Up fork would look a lot better on the bike. I was looking for a Kona Project 2 for my build, but the deal on the Surly was just too good.

Clean build.


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## Hardguy (Nov 4, 2006)

Erwin8r said:


> Done. She rides great. The more I look at it, the more I agree about the forks... They just look a bit fat and out of place. Probably gonna' try to dig up some wound-up type forks--but with db mounts  Went with the Juicy Ultimates instead of the Hopes for the same reason. Now looking for a set of Mavic 819's for the knobbies. I'll cut the steerer further when I settle on a bar position, and the brakes lines will be tidied up tonight. Cranks are butter smooth, so they're staying for a while. I thought about some classic Race Face square tapers, and they might still be the way to go.
> 
> And for the record, the Syncros post, cranks, headset, and frame are mid-90's vintage...


Hey, it turned out pretty cool looking. You may have gotten better response on it if you would have posted your bike on the commuter sub-forum more so than the VRC sub-forum. I really like it as a commuter. If you really want to get rid of the carbon fork, I am interested in taking it off your hands.  The slicks are not that bad on this bike since it sounds like you will be riding on mostly streets and also have mtb tires planned for off road duty. Good city bomber in my opinion. :thumbsup:


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

yo-Nate-y said:


> I'm in your camp.
> I commuted for a couple years in Tokyo on my '91 Yo Eddy with 1.125 slick tires and a 53t ring. The bike hauled ass twenty kilometers each way  It felt like a super motard MX bike.


Yerha my current commuter is my Yeti ARC (03 or 04 or whatever was the last with some scandium tubes), does well enough for my slow lardness...


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## anthonyinhove (Nov 3, 2007)

colker1 said:


> no chain stay seat stay bridge on the disc mount?:skep:


Surely not needed on ti frames? TST=Sandvic never fitted them as far as I'm aware, either as part of original build or when they retro-fitted them to earlier frames.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

anthonyinhove said:


> Surely not needed on ti frames? TST=Sandvic never fitted them as far as I'm aware, either as part of original build or when they retro-fitted them to earlier frames.


Ti is susceptible to cracks like all other frame materials. It has just as much to do with tubing thickness and design as it does material.


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## anthonyinhove (Nov 3, 2007)

jtmartino said:


> Ti is susceptible to cracks like all other frame materials. It has just as much to do with tubing thickness and design as it does material.


Tell me something I don't know. Steel stays are often tapered and/or butted (thicker where rim brake posts are fitted, thinner at the rear), so that they are weakest where they join the dropouts. Titanium stays are rarely either tapered or butted. This may well explain why you won't often see additional bracing on ti frames with retro-fitted diac tabs.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Or it could be a case of "Hey mr welder in the phone book, can you weld ti? You can? Can you weld this little doodad onto me bike for a box of beer? Yeah they all got em these days."

Or it could be that its perfectly fine... won't know till it fails.


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## anthonyinhove (Nov 3, 2007)

mik_git said:


> Or it could be a case of "Hey mr welder in the phone book, can you weld ti? You can? Can you weld this little doodad onto me bike for a box of beer? Yeah they all got em these days."
> Or it could be that its perfectly fine... won't know till it fails.


I admit that the easiest thing is to be cynical/pessimistic, but just about everybody knows you can't weld ti unless you have the right atmospheric conditions in your shop, so it's hard to imagine that any welder would even have the necessary ti welding rod available if they weren't properly set up for ti work.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

And its pretty daft to assume that
1) just because some is set up to weld ti, that they have a clue about small odd job that someone wants done
2) that welding a brake tab onto a frame that was never meant to have one, for a possibly much more powerful brake in a position that isn't where it would normally be loaded, is perfectly fine.

Now I'm not saying that this frame will ever fail, or that the welder didn't know exactly what he was doing or that a disc on this frame wouldn't work better than a V. But the OP didn't have it done to the frame and has no idea who did it, or how it will affect the frame. In all likely hood it will be fine. But if that was me, I'd be keeping a close eye on that area, just in case


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## Hardguy (Nov 4, 2006)

I agree with what Mik_Git said about the brace. I would pay a little extra to get a brace welded on for the peace of mind especially the OP will be using it as an on-road commuter with slicks which would mean a little higher speed than the frame's intended mtb off-road purpose. Also as a commuter, he may well be sharing the roads with cars, trucks and buses in traffic. I wouldn't want to think about a failure of the frame while approaching a red light at a busy intersection! :eekster:


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