# Three xml LEDs one reflector



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Is it a stupid idea .
I was thinking. Take a say 50 mm spotty reflector 
And a lump of copper and make a heatsinking to solder three Xmas in a line as close as possible together And mod the reflector so you can fit it over the three 
What's the likely beam going to be like ?


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

Like this Spark SP6?


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## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

Not in a line, but in a triangle.
That will be a floodlight.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

On my 2nd generation microlight I cut the sides of 2 Reginas and joined them together to make kind of an oval shape and use 2 LEDs. It works OK, but is pretty fussy getting the dimensions right. I think something similar might make a better beam than getting all the LEDs in 1 reflector.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I was wondering the same thing myself the other day, except for a 20mm XPG setup.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

OK its experimental time










but will have to wait till darkness to see what its like .


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

There is still place for two more LEDs :cornut:


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## irv_usc (Mar 16, 2011)

What about a larger led like mt-g2?

It would run cooler and give a smooth beam.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

toaster79 said:


> there is still place for two more leds :cornut:


+1 :thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Toaster79 said:


> There is still place for two more LEDs :cornut:


There is indeed and thanks for pointing that out and given me a bigger headache 
Now I want to put five in there but it is totally not needed 

as I have used one of these reflectors before and with one XML its like a light cannon with a great throw but I did not expect the result from this trial just got to say it is awesome and has to be built into a bar light .

it certainly eclipses the Hex optic in a previous thread so that project is now a dead un .

on to the beam shots at 200 metres and it certainly fills in that dark centre which 99% of XML lights have at their maximum range .





































and took it out to 300 metres and it still lit up the Troutmobile .just my eyes cant see that far too good

Zoomed in a tad from 300 metres


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## [jsl] (Sep 20, 2007)

:cornut:

Is that a Ledil reflector?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

[jsl] said:


> :cornut:
> 
> Is that a Ledil reflector?


Not sure who makes it but it is this one from Cutters


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Independent drivers for middle and outer would make quite a versatile light.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Independent drivers for middle and outer would make quite a versatile light.


Yep agree there and also from the shine it on the wall test the 2 outer leds can go out as far as possible as that would ovalise the beam a bit more .

from this experiment I reckon it would be worth while taking a narrow 35 mm reflector and popping 2 xmls in there and if it works like this one then you will get an oval beam which would be nice for the road upright or flat for offroad.

or even a bit of experimenting for a dip and full beam in the same reflector for the road


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Bastids you knew I could not resist the bait.


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

troutie-mtb said:


> Bastids you knew I could not resist the bait.


To tell you the truth, I was being sarcastic when I saw you actually pulled it off with three emitters, but this is just crazy.

Again Chris, you're a genius!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers Toaster 
if this works when I get to try it tonight going to get started on a housing 
and just ordered some Copper bar and going to attempt to make a heat spreader and solder the bare leds to the copper with some micro soldering to wire them up .
I think the middle led could suffer a bit might be a good call for the XML 2s if they make it to the shops soon . but I suspect impatience will get the better of me.


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

troutie-mtb said:


> Cheers Toaster
> if this works when I get to try it tonight going to get started on a housing
> and just ordered some Copper bar and going to attempt to make a heat spreader and solder the bare leds to the copper with some micro soldering to wire them up .
> I think the middle led could suffer a bit might be a good call for the XML 2s if they make it to the shops soon . but I suspect impatience will get the better of me.


I'm sure it will work just great. The center LED will still give you the tight hot spot, like in the single application, but the additional two emitters will make beam shape round instead of oval giving you the monstrous amount of well focused light.

Was thinking the same thing you did about the heat. Emitters are so close together that everything will start cooking soon at higher currents. But I would still try 3A drive current, just to see how stupid bright is 50W in an 80mm reflector. Reflowing directly to copper might be the solution here, but I'm still skeptic about the heat concentration. On the other hand, there are 50W, 100W, 200W ... chips on the market, and don't get toasted when mounted on a decent heatsink. So I'm thinking a 100mm light head with wood burning beam is to come out of your shop sooner or later.

p.s.: When XM-L2 arrive, you could still reflow the emitters. Just make sure your copper heat spreader is screwed in the light head and not glued.


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## borrower (Feb 26, 2011)

Cool! (Or, I suppose -- hot!)

Have you pointed it at the side of a barn or anything to get a proper idea of beam shape? I'm guessing it'd be oblong, but since everything is so close, I'm not sure...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

borrower said:


> Cool! (Or, I suppose -- hot!)
> 
> Have you pointed it at the side of a barn or anything to get a proper idea of beam shape? I'm guessing it'd be oblong, but since everything is so close, I'm not sure...


With the three leds its a slight oval and just got back in from a dog walk and photo shoot with the 5 leds very bright but not sure by how much more than the three pics soon


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Only done the full whack pic at 3 amps and not quite the same position as before

5 leds 








3 leds 









I think I prefer the triple and also 5 XMLs is an awkward number for driver options


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I just wish I had the solder skills to mount those LEDs on the board!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Andy13 said:


> I just wish I had the solder skills to mount those LEDs on the board!


Only hacksaw and filing skills needed used XMLs on 10 mm square boards and cut them down with a junior hacksaw and file still had the soldertabs to solder to .


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

This is just sick 

Awesome job!!!!


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Crap, I've had one of those reflectors for 7 months and never thought of doing that, although I certainly liked it's output with a single XML @ 3A.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Awsome! But my wife isnt impressed. Shes never happy when I get ideas off of this forum


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Crap, I've had one of those reflectors for 7 months and never thought of doing that, although I certainly liked it's output with a single XML @ 3A.


Oh Glad you popped up with this comment as could do with some help here Brad if you have the time 
As I am really crap at any kind of drawing with or without computer help I wondered if you could draw up a proto and we can have a collaboration on this one .

Here is what I think would be a good if large and expensive all-round bike light .

With one of these reflectors as the starting point with 3 XMLs inside I would also like to pop a single or double floody but small set up just underneath optic yet to be decided.

also space for a B3flex and a B2lex 2 switches on top and power in somewhere

reason is use the single as front wheel fill-in and road use and blast the trails with both when offroad .

Oh and make it as light as possible and of course good looking


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Sounds good mate. PM me and I'll give you an email address for you to send some scribbles to .


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

troutie, you are certifiably crackers!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Sounds good mate. PM me and I'll give you an email address for you to send some scribbles to .


Thanks Brad . 
Got fed up scribbling so went for the hack it out of some ali and see what happens approach










Thanks also Matt ,ut: Men in white coats are at the door


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Sweet. That's about he shape I was thinking with fins on the main body and the single xpg mounted underneath in front of the bar mount. Looks like you had bundles of fun with the boring bar....

I had looked a one with fins on the cone but it looked a bit poxy.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Sweet. That's about he shape I was thinking with fins on the main body and the single xpg mounted underneath in front of the bar mount. Looks like you had bundles of fun with the boring bar....
> 
> I had looked a one with fins on the cone but it looked a bit poxy.


Yep my thoughts were for fins and came to the same conclusion as you 
might not have any fins as lots of area on the cone .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)




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## uncle_bob (Jul 26, 2010)

Could you not run one driver and have a clicky on off switch after the driver inline with the two outside LEDs for a high low arrangement? Or would this cause a current spike when the outside LEDs were turned on or off?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

uncle_bob said:


> Could you not run one driver and have a clicky on off switch after the driver inline with the two outside LEDs for a high low arrangement? Or would this cause a current spike when the outside LEDs were turned on or off?


You have answered your own question there it would need two drivers for sure ( waiting for George to do a dual output Flex )

anyways first short ride this morning

Trouties Daylight Maker - YouTube

and you dont want to meet it head on 
Trouties Daylight Maker 2 - YouTube


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

The poor lumen hound, treated like a huskie pulling you along...


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

looks neat, like one of those old-fashioned dynamo lights. Probably a bit more output than one of those though


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> looks neat, like one of those old-fashioned dynamo lights. Probably a bit more output than one of those though


and it doesn't get brighter and then dim with each pedal stroke..... can we call you professor Matt yet?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> The poor lumen hound, treated like a huskie pulling you along...


Ha Ha I wish does he look to be putting in much effort only time it happens is if there's a rabbit in front .


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

brad72 said:


> ... can we call you professor Matt yet?


not yet, perhaps in 2014..

I did however receive a bunch of tooling (end mill set, some HSS blanks and a set of indexable 1/4in cutters) at our early family Christmas, so the lathe is starting to get tooled up! Just need to add an on-off switch, motor hold down and a machine vise to the cross slide and I'll be raring to go


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## mrradlos (Sep 3, 2010)

Troutie, why are you not using one of these new MK-R monsters? :eekster:


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## gadgets&gear (Oct 26, 2012)

What is the heat on this thing like? What housing and heat sink set up do you use?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

mrradlos said:


> Troutie, why are you not using one of these new MK-R monsters? :eekster:


because I did not know about them 
and got a few MTG2s on order

@ Gadgets and gear heatsink and housing is what you see at the start of the thread 
spun on the lathe from one piece of ali

Been experimenting with some copper and to me micro soldering plus diy reflowing the leds to the copper.


















I have a few 35 and 50 mm reflectors so going to try double leds in them to see if it works as well as the huge reflector does .


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## gadgets&gear (Oct 26, 2012)

Love that housing! it looks absolutely bulletproof. Also I think your shop is making me jealous...metal lathe !!! 

Joseph


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Chris, I think I've found something you might use in this project and would be even more crazy


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Toaster79 said:


> Chris, I think I've found something you might use in this project and would be even more crazy


Wow thats a beast for sure , I want one but it would need to be 7 in series and how to keep it cool would be a challenge .


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## adrenalnjunky (Jul 28, 2007)

7 XM-L in a P-60 dropin in a flashlight? Behind an aspheric lens maybe?

The battery consumption problem in a flashlight makes me twitch more than the heating issue.


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

Hey Chris
I was wondering if this PCB with XPG-2 or XPE-2 combo would work in your app, smaller reflector can be used or multiples, PCB is 12.7mm dia and is two separate strings with common anode


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