# Newly purchase used Schwinn Moab



## Curlimama (Sep 19, 2015)

I just purchased this at a yard sale for $35. I would like to use it for my 14-year-old son or sell it to get him what he really wants. I know virtually nothing about mountain bikes but I am very willing to learn. Can anybody tell me anything about this bike? Thanks!


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

It's old. But if it goes, stops and shifts, I'd say you did pretty well for $35. You'd have a very difficult time getting more than $100 for it to resell.

Looks like mid-nineties to me, based on having a very early suspension fork, cantilever brakes, and a five-bolt crank.

Maintenance parts are pretty available but talk to someone if you get any big ideas about upgrading. Bikes this age are best kept period. Doesn't mean you can't take care of them or they'd not fun to ride, just that you can't swap parts willy-nilly and expect things to work.

The Schwinn Moab has typically been their middle-tier hardtail for the bike shop channel. So at least reasonably nice builds and frame tubing.

Where are you and your son on riding?


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## Curlimama (Sep 19, 2015)

Thank you so much for the information. We are just beginning our bike riding adventure and thought it would be fun to start out on some of the trails at First Landing State Park. The bike looks like it was barely used. we bought it from neighbors who don't spend much time outside.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

I'd hold onto that; it looks to be in pretty good shape for that age! Though I'm not sure of the year, here are some reviews for you to check out:

Schwinn 2001 Moab Hardtail Bike Reviews - Mtbr.com


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## Curlimama (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks Crankout!


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## Curlimama (Sep 19, 2015)

I've been researching it and it looks like it is a 1998 Moab 2.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

FYI, front tire is on backwards. Not a bit deal, but might affect handling and grip when on the trail.

Assuming it fits, I'd spend a litle money to get a better seat. Those big cushy seats are absoltey horrible for anything more than 2 miles. I'd also remove the bar ends, move the grips and shifters out a litle and adjust the brake lever reach some (small screw on brake lever that moves the lever in towards the bar some). If your son's hands aren't big, that could be a long reach to get the brakes. If the brakes don't grab well, you can take a file/rasp to them and carefully remove the surface of the brake to get some fresh rubber. You can also replace them with Kool Stop aligator pads. One of the better rim brake pads out there at a decent price.

FYI, If the fork stops working, you can easily replace it with other easily available forks. Rigid steel ones are available for about $50, and for suspension; Suntour XCM ($80) and rockshox XC28 ($100). The limiting factor is requiring the brake post mounts, and a lot of high end forks don't have them anymore. The XCM and XC28 are acceptable forks, and better/comparable to the stock judy fork.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

So, to some degree, the Moab was a less expensive alternative to the Homegrown. The Homegrown was the light weight, hand made, race frame from the Schwinn factory race program. The geometry was similar but it was built in Taiwan instead of the US and used less expensive tubing. It also used a less expensive set of components and was WAY cheaper than the Homegrown. All in all, it's very rideable and serviceable bike and it is still a way better bike than the Scwhinn you can get today.

If you wanted to spend the money to upgrade the components, you can although the selection of 1-1/8" non tapered forks is getting slim now.


It actually looks like both tires are mounted backwards.


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## elcaro1101 (Sep 1, 2011)

watts888 said:


> FYI, front tire is on backwards. Not a bit deal, but might affect handling and grip when on the trail.
> 
> Assuming it fits, I'd spend a litle money to get a better seat. Those big cushy seats are absoltey horrible for anything more than 2 miles. I'd also remove the bar ends, move the grips and shifters out a litle and adjust the brake lever reach some (small screw on brake lever that moves the lever in towards the bar some). If your son's hands aren't big, that could be a long reach to get the brakes. If the brakes don't grab well, you can take a file/rasp to them and carefully remove the surface of the brake to get some fresh rubber. You can also replace them with Kool Stop aligator pads. One of the better rim brake pads out there at a decent price.
> 
> FYI, If the fork stops working, you can easily replace it with other easily available forks. Rigid steel ones are available for about $50, and for suspension; Suntour XCM ($80) and rockshox XC28 ($100). The limiting factor is requiring the brake post mounts, and a lot of high end forks don't have them anymore. The XCM and XC28 are acceptable forks, and better/comparable to the stock judy fork.


Thats an Indy fork, not a Judy.

Nice pickup for $35 OP, looks like it has hardly been ridden.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

chuckha62 said:


> If you wanted to spend the money to upgrade the components, you can although the selection of 1-1/8" non tapered forks is getting slim now.


I have what _looks_ to be a 1996 Moab 3 
(however, it is labeled as 1895-1995 Schwinn Anniversary Edition), 
and I would like to swap out the road-sluggish and/or tatered RST suspension forks, 
for a rigid 29er set (I think the rear dropouts can fit a 29er wheel).

As you've indicated, the headtube is 1 1/8".
I don't supposed it would be difficult to convert 
from threaded to threadless fork if needed?

'Non-tapered' what is that exactly with forks, and 
can replacement forks still be had for the Moab without that form factor?


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

Curlimama said:


> I've been researching it and it looks like it is a 1998 Moab 2.


You got a great deal on it IMO. It is fast approaching vintage status, 
and it looks to be in great condition for the year


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

2wTrekr said:


> I have what looks to be a 1996 Moab 3, and I would like to swap out the tatered RST suspension forks, for a rigid 29er set (I think the rear dropouts can fit a 29er wheel).
> 
> As you've indicated, the headtube is 1 1/8".
> I don't supposed it would be difficult to convert
> ...


I doubt you can fit a 29er wheel in back from a diameter standpoint. Also would be difficult to get the rim brakes to work without putting on new brake posts. axle hub width should be 135mm, but that's easy to measure.

Converting a threaded to threadless setup is simple. Just need to buy a new headset. There is one called the FSA Pig that's something like $20 on amazon. Good quality, low price threadless headset. You'll also need a threadless stem, and while you're at it, get a new wider handlebar to match the stem clamp diameter.

Tapered fork steer tubes have a taper where they are 1 1/8" at the top and 1 1/2" at the bottom. Straight steer tubes are still good, and you can still find acceptable forks with them.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Great bike. Looks to be in like-new shape. Mid-'90s vintage. Ride it like you stole it!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

watts888 said:


> I doubt you can fit a 29er wheel in back
> from a diameter standpoint.


The bike ( '96 Moab 3.0, = 'base model' Moab) 
currently has 26 x 1.75" tires on 26 x 1.25" rims.
The seat stays look to have plenty of room, around the current wheels. they even flare toward the top into a kind of 'hoop,' shape --- almost as if it was made for a larger wheel option:















However, the chainstays seem to be the more critical area.
There's about 45mm width at the 'most-narrow' end of the stay,
with about 45mm clearance 'diameter room' (length) from the tire tread, 
to the end/limit of the stay:

















watts888 said:


> Also would be difficult to get the rim brakes to work without putting on new brake posts. axle hub width should be 135mm, but that's easy to measure.


I think that will be the main hurdle. My plan was to try to find 'wide adjusting' cantilevers, so that I might mount them on the existing brake posts.



watts888 said:


> Converting a threaded to threadless setup is simple. Just need to buy a new headset. There is one called the FSA Pig that's something like $20 on amazon. Good quality, low price threadless headset. You'll also need a threadless stem, and while you're at it, get a new wider handlebar to match the stem clamp diameter.


Definitely good to know, thanks for the leads!



watts888 said:


> Tapered fork steer tubes have a taper where they are 1 1/8" at the top and 1 1/2" at the bottom. Straight steer tubes are still good, and you can still find acceptable forks with them.


Ah I think I get it. I think the Mongoose Malus has tapered forks
(which taper or narrow towards the hub mounts), 
while the Mongoose Dolomite has straight tube forks, right?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

It is made for a bigger wheel: a 2.1" knobby. I doubt it would clear a 29x2.1" or bigger, but a lot of 26" frames fit 27.5" wheels and up to a 700x35C or so.

The brakes thing is a serious problem. You'll mess up the leverage ratio if you change the pad position radically.

What's the goal here?


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> It is made for a bigger wheel: a 2.1" knobby. I doubt it would clear a 29x2.1" or bigger, but a lot of 26" frames fit 27.5" wheels and up to a 700x35C or so.
> 
> The brakes thing is a serious problem. You'll mess up the leverage ratio if you change the pad position radically.
> 
> What's the goal here?


I want to retrofit my old '96 Schwinn Moab 3.0 (has 26" wheels currently)
with a 29er wheelset. It is a 21" frame, from BB center to top of seat tube.

I'd be using 29er rims, in the width range of 19-22mm 
(like a Sun Rhyno Lite, standard or XL), i.e. between the clinchers.

For tires, I'd ride mostly slick or semi-slick, 2" wide or less, like say, a 47-622.
Tires would have less-or-no knobs/lugs, i.e. similar to the tread already on the bike (CST E-series Reach 26" x 1.75", i.e. 47-559). other tire examples:

Nomad Resist 700c x 45mm, 
Kenda: Kwick Roller Sport, or Kwick Bitumen 700c tires.

Continental Country Plus 47-622

With the right rim, might even try 
WTB Slick Comp 29 x 2.2, or 
WTB Freedom Thickslick 29 x 2.1
I know that's pushing it and might not work, but 
they are slicks with no lugs on them.

Regarding brakes,
I've heard they do make cantilever sets, with lots of range, so as to move the pads to the wider ( 'taller' ) position, at the 'business level' of the 29er rim/sidewalls.
If this proves not feasible, then I suppose some sort of brake-post retrofit might work.

The only ones I might have to retrofit would be the rear/frame ones, 
Since I could always just start with a 29er rigid fork for the front, 
i.e. with the compatible brake mount-posts already included.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Wishbone stays is what I think they were called...to give a little compliance to the rear end.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

The Schwinn moab's were cool. I'd keep it in stock form where possible. Throw the widest tires you can on those rims and just ride it. 

When you start getting into replacing the wheels and tires, needing to buy a new fork and brake calipers, you get into the cost of just getting a used 29er bike. 

If you really want bigger wheels, I would look at 27.5" rims and tires before I tried a 29". I put a 29" x 40mm tire/wheelset on a 26" bike (disc brake) and it scraped the paint on the bottom of the fork (suntour XCM). In back, the tire barely cleared the front derailleur clamp and cable with a couple millimeters. From a ride perspective, it was light and slightly better for road (narrower tire at high pressure), but for trails, it was pointless. Swapped back to bigger 26" tires and it rode just fine.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

2wTrekr said:


> I have what looks to be a 1996 Moab 3, and I would like to swap out the tatered RST suspension forks, for a rigid 29er set (I think the rear dropouts can fit a 29er wheel).
> 
> As you've indicated, the headtube is 1 1/8".
> I don't supposed it would be difficult to convert
> ...


That kind of wheel swap just isn't practical unless you have disc brakes. Even then, 26 to 29 is a pretty radical change. On that bike? Just not worth it. It's a 26er. Just ride it as a 26er. It's not like it's going to explode or something if you don't put 29er wheels on it. Want it to be faster on pavement? Install fat slicks and ride in taller gears.

And yeah, as has been said, you can find a straight steerer fork with canti posts and convert the headset to a threadless one.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I get that you want to put 29" wheels on it. I'd wondered why, but sub-2" slicks implies an answer.

Like I said, 26" bikes can clear 700C slicks. So if you must do this, go out and get either some narrow XC 29er wheels or some 135 mm-spaced 700Cs and drop them in. You'll have to do some experimentation to figure out if 47 mm tires fit - I bet they don't, but I won't pretend to actually know.

Getting your brake pads high enough isn't really the problem. The problem is that it changes your leverage ratio to move them that far. You'll end up with pretty poor power. There's a thing called a Travel Agent that might help, but I generally try to stay away from using a ton of adapters to shoehorn something into a different job.

Cannondale makes a bike based on a similar concept, the Bad Boy.

Price everything you need before you do this. If you want a hybrid, I really think just going out and buying a hybrid will be cheaper, especially used. Hop on some road bikes while you're at it. Horses for courses.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Hop on some road bikes while you're at it. Horses for courses.


Said it before, I'll say it again. road bikes are the devil. Buy a fattie.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Harold said:


> That kind of wheel swap just isn't practical unless you have disc brakes. Even then, 26 to 29 is a pretty radical change. On that bike? Just not worth it. It's a 26er. Just ride it as a 26er. It's not like it's going to explode or something if you don't put 29er wheels on it. Want it to be faster on pavement? Install fat slicks and ride in taller gears.
> 
> And yeah, as has been said, you can find a straight steerer fork with canti posts and convert the headset to a threadless one.


This. Somehow we all survived riding 26" wheeled bikes...I had slicks on my Homegrown and rode it on the road...the triples back then gave you the gearing (44/11).


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

watts888 said:


> Said it before, I'll say it again. road bikes are the devil. Buy a fattie.


A friend who borrowed my 'cross bike for a while named it "Damien," after the evil child in The Exorcist.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

*Moab 3.0, shock front swap to rigid / bike retrofit / stock 26" to 29er*



Harold said:


> That kind of wheel swap just isn't practical unless you have disc brakes.


Are you saying that 29ers generally don't work well with traditional rim brakes, i.e. that 29ers pretty much need disc brakes?



Harold said:


> Even then, 26 to 29 is a pretty radical change. On that bike? Just not worth it.


So far, I think the only issue would be the brake leverage with a taller cantilever set. However, I think a wide-range caliper set (mounted on the frame's existing 26 posts, adjustable to reach the 29" rims), i.e .with a 'horizontal' cable pull---would mitigate the issue to a workable degree.

I have [linear-pull /V-brake] rim brakes (branded Promax) on my Dahon 26" folder.
They look to have just enough extra clearance. Maybe they also have other model options that would work.

Not trying to confound here; I appreciate all the advice. I'm just curious to see if it's doable, and/or how well it might work.



Harold said:


> It's a 26er. Just ride it as a 26er...Want it to be faster on pavement? Install fat slicks and ride in taller gears.


I have been doing that, and ever since I swapped the stock knobbies 
for slicks, it's been remarkably nimble (especially with Schwalbe Kojak 26x2's or Freedom Thickslick 26x2's).

I have a pretty good stable of slick tires now. I've discovered that a combination of liners under the tires and sealant inside the tubes makes for excellent flat protection.

This way, I've been able to also consider cheaper tires that may not have the flat-protection of higher-end tires, but have other preferable features. For example, Kenda Kommuter 26x2's, and Kenda Kwick Roller Sport 26x2's, are rated for 80-85 psi, in a world where most 26x2+ tires are rated for 65psi or lower.

It's nice to be able to have the rim protection and contact patch 
of a wider tire, with the higher psi (rolling resistance),
toward that of a narrower /road tire.



Harold said:


> And yeah, as has been said, you can find a straight steerer fork with canti posts and convert the headset to a threadless one.


Glad to hear a threadless retrofit is not too complicated.

_Here's the crux of my motivations for a retrofit, 26-to-29er_:

I ride to commute, mainly on road/pavement or hard-pack surfaces.

I want to keep the '96 Schwinn Moab 3. 
Also don't have room for more bikes.

The low-end stock RST 171 fork on this bike is a suspension type,
and is 'loose' low-pressure, either worn, or just too loose/springy.
A lot of pedal energy is lost on long commutes, and especially on hills.

Therefore, I want to swap the cheap stock suspension fork 
for a rigid MTB/tube type fork (tapered or straight).

_I figure while I'm at it with a fork-swap, 
I might as well convert it to a 29er if possible.

_


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> What's the goal here?


Since I ride mostly non-trail, and instead on hard/pavement,
the goal is to swap out the sluggish low-end stock suspension fork (RST 171),
for a rigid tube/MTB fork.

I just figured while I was at it, that I'd convert the bike/wheel config to 29er 
if it's possible without a metal fab shop.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

TiGeo said:


> Wishbone stays is what I think they were called...to give a little compliance to the rear end.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Just found the Schwinn catalog listing. 
They are branded as Epicenter seat stays (probably a Schwinn brand?)


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

2wTrekr said:


> Just found the Schwinn catalog listing.
> They are branded as Epicenter seat stays (probably a Schwinn brand?)


Yep...that's it! My Homegrown had them too...just Schwinn's name for their specific design.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

watts888 said:


> The Schwinn moab's were cool. I'd keep it in stock form where possible.


Yeah I thought about swapping the stock BB (square), 
for a decent Isis BB (NMB and Stronglight both make one 
that's durable; both are expensive, @ $200 for the NMB).

I also considered swapping the cranks (since the BB would be swapped),
but the stock are vintage 5-pt SR Suntour 175mm.

So, BB/spindle upgrade = expensive
Crankset upgrade = not worth it unless upgrading the BB,
plus I like the stock SR Suntour cranks



watts888 said:


> Throw the widest tires you can on those rims and just ride it.


Yeah, that's what I do... slick 26x2's have made it remarkably swift and nimble...I've enjoyed trying different slicks on it...I keep finding ones with an improved spec here-or-there... for example,

one might have better flat protection 
(swapped the slick *(CST) Cheng Shin 1218*'s for *Michelin Pilot Sport* 26x2's)

One might be lighter, have higher psi, and decent flat-protection
(swapped the 58psi Pilot-Sports for the nimble 70psi *Schwalbe Kojak*s)

One might have even higher psi, 
and thicker tread/casing with flat protection
(swapped out the did-I-say-nimble Kojaks 
for speedy WTB Freedom *Thickslick*s, rated for 80psi)

Now that a tire with integrated flat protection is of less concern to me
(a combination of tire-liners and tube/puncture-sealant has worked well) it's opened up a new range of tire considerations:

Bring on the Kendas!

Will next try their *Kommuter* *1045* 26x2, 
a slick tire with a cool gothic-style tread, rated up to 85 psi (!!!), and/or

*Kwick Roller Sport* 26x2,
slick with Kwest-type tread and also rated up to 85psi (on a 26x2!!!)

I think *Nomad Resist* 26x2's also are rated 80-85 psi. 
They're a slick with a 1"square-tiled tread and finely-knurled surface texture.



watts888 said:


> When you start getting into replacing the wheels and tires, needing to buy a new fork and brake calipers, you get into the cost of just getting a used 29er bike.


I don't have space for another bike, and I want to keep the Moab 3.
Just want to swap the sludgy shock fork for a rigid (for road/pavement), 
but I'm interested in having a 29er to try.



watts888 said:


> If you really want bigger wheels, I would look at 27.5" rims and tires before I tried a 29"


I will probably try the 27.5's as you've advised.



watts888 said:


> From a ride perspective, it was light and slightly better for road (narrower tire at high pressure), but for trails, it was pointless.


I don't ride trails much at all, instead mostly on road/pavement for commuting, so I think the swap you described would work especially well.


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## MtnBkrBob (Aug 15, 2007)

Wow – that’s a great find! A classic.

I have a ’97 Moab 1 in my office as my lunch time ride. It is an absolute blast to ride in the smooth forest trails around my office. 

Cannibalized multiple leftover bikes to make it different. 63mm SID fork & Mavic wheelset from my ’99 Stumpy Pro. Cantilever brakes from my '03 Stumpy expert. Converted to single speed. It weights in the upper teens. Clean and basic. It’s a hoot. 

Good find. Have fun with it. Nothing better than parking the $5K bike and ripping through the woods on a 100 dollar bike.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Do you need to swap the bottom bracket? If so, I'd just get a replacement cartridge bearing bottom bracket. $20. Get the length off the ones in the frame and keep the old crankset.

Honestly, I'd just swap out the fork to an alloy one if weight is a concern, or carbon steel if weight isn't. Grab a new headset, stem, and handlebar. total cost would be under $100 for new, less if you get the parts for a local bicycle co-op or a LBS that sells used parts.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

watts888 said:


> Do you need to swap the bottom bracket?


Not really, just 'whimsically interested' in the newer spline-type BB/splindle drives. They have a sturdy, solid, balanced feel to them, when pedaling.

However, splined-drives do wear on bearings, in a way that square-taper drives don't: the square taper drive tends to absorb energy, saving the inboard (in-shell) bearings, but also resulting in less efficient pedaling.

Better-wearing splined/Isis (the open spline-standard) drives are available,
by at least 2 or 3 vendor/brands, but they are expensive--- @ 200 USD.

There is one brand-specific spline drive type BB (TEAM) that is both affordable and durable (i.e. with durability toward that of a square-type drive, but all the other benefits of spline-drive). It places the bearings outboard from the BB/shell area, which helps save the bearings.



watts888 said:


> If so, I'd just get a replacement cartridge bearing bottom bracket. $20. Get the length off the ones in the frame and keep the old crankset.


Yep, even though there's a decent affordable spline-drive out there (with bearings outboard to the BB shell), I'll probably just skip a BB upgrade, so's I can keep the stock SR Suntour 5-pt 175mm cranks.



watts888 said:


> Honestly, I'd just swap out the fork to an alloy one if weight is a concern, or carbon steel if weight isn't. Grab a new headset, stem, and handlebar. total cost would be under $100 for new, less if you get the parts for a local bicycle co-op or a LBS that sells used parts.


I'll try to go with a lighter fork if possible, and swap for threadless headset if I settle on a threadless fork.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I get that you want to put 29" wheels on it. I'd wondered why, but sub-2" slicks implies an answer.


I mainly ride to commute, on pavement
(the stock RST 171 suspension fork is sluggish for pedaling, especially uphill).

I want to keep the Moab 3
(also don't have room for more bikes, but am interested in 29ers).

To solve the 'pedal-robbing' sloppy-shock-fork issue, 
I plan to swap for a rigid tube/MTB fork.

_I just figured that while I was at it, I'd prep for a 29er build if possible._

I'm inspired by the whole "plus (29+/27.5+)" movement---

* running the largest wheels possible, 
for optimal rolling resistance and terrain management

* in the shortest wheelbase possible,
for the bike to handle somewhat like a 'regular' bike's geometry.

That said, please realize that with this project, however 'ambitious,' 
I don't expect to run any tire with actual profile in excess of @2" (@50mm) wide,
i.e. slicks or semi-slicks, @ 2" wide.



AndrwSwitch said:


> Like I said, 26" bikes can clear 700C slicks. So if you must do this, go out and get either some narrow XC 29er wheels or some 135 mm-spaced 700Cs and drop them in. You'll have to do some experimentation to figure out if 47 mm tires fit - I bet they don't, but I won't pretend to actually know.


I've posted pics of the rear wheel near the (red) chain- and seat-stays.
The tires pictured are 26 x 1.75 (47-559) slicks. With the current wheels/tires, there's at least 45mm clearance (both stays), for a larger diameter wheel.

Tire width is of less concern 
(45mm wide, at the end of narrower stay of the two--- the chainstay).

With 26" wheels, the bike has fitted x 2"+ wide tires, 
including 2.3 (Winter-Contact-II). However, I do have to undo the cable from one caliper to install/remove the wider tires, anything over 2.2"



AndrwSwitch said:


> Getting your brake pads high enough isn't really the problem.
> The problem is that it changes your leverage ratio to move them that far.


Duly noted; I hadn't thought of that...I have trouble even with the disc brakes (cheap/stock) on a budget fatbike I have for winter.



AndrwSwitch said:


> You'll end up with pretty poor power
> [with wider-range, 'taller' cantilevers, pad-to-post]


I agree, especially with any 'longish' cantiliver setup. Instead, I think a side-pull type rim brake would work okay. I have these types on my 26" folder bike. Would probably want to use a thick/strong brake cable if available.

I realize all this, because I have a budget 26x4 fatbike, with effective wheel diameter of 29" (based on the bigger tires). There must be something about rotational weight (or momentum) with the larger wheels, because even though the bike has disc brakes, they are cheaper stock and don't clamp the rotor too well, so requiring extra stopping distance when riding...



AndrwSwitch said:


> Price everything you need before you do this.


I definitely don't want to spend too much money on the project.



AndrwSwitch said:


> If you want a hybrid, I really think just going out and buying a hybrid will be cheaper, especially used. Hop on some road bikes while you're at it. Horses for courses.


Yeah, I just like the Moab 3, and prefer a hybrid/MTB riding position. That said, there is a 'moto-bc' roadie ( G.R. ) that I like, especially for the money, just to have a good road bike around.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

Just want to say again, curlimama got a great deal on a mid-to-upper level Moab (2),
just an excellent bike for $35! It has symmetrical stays, and Rock Shox fork with tapered mount---both upgrades IMO, over the base-end Moab, the "3," which has asymmetrical drive-side chainstay, and RST 171 (non-tapered) forks. I guess an asymmetrical drive-side chainstay is supposed to minimize chainslap (?), but I like the aesthetics of both the symmetrical chainstays, and the tapered-mount forks on that Moab 2. It all looks to be in excellent condition. For $35. Amazing!



watts888 said:


> FYI, front tire is on backwards. Not a bit deal, but might affect handling and grip when on the trail.


I've been enlightened and understand the practice 
of reversing the tire/tread _on the back_, as this *improves traction* 
(including in snow) on just about any tire _with directional tread/lugs_.

However, don't know what this does for the front :skep:, 
except to match the back  (if the back is reverse-mounted :thumbsup: ) .

Of course I'd give a thumbs up with no blinking if the rear tire was reversed, and with front tire mounted according to the directional tread (also usually marked 
as a small embossed arrow on the tire's sidewall, 
pointing in the _rotational direction_ as per forward/riding direction), _
and_ if there was an 'emojiticon' with thumbs up and no winking or blinking 
of any kind.



watts888 said:


> You can also replace [the brake pads] with Kool Stop aligator pads. One of the better rim brake pads out there at a decent price.


Adding a vote for the Kool Stop rim brake pads. 
Got a set as an affordable upgrade awhile back. 
They are low-profile, but longer on rim (arc) contact, probably to help offset wear. They grip well, and their low-profile helps with two things:

* they allow for wider rims. I'm now able to run 25-27mm rims, up from 19mm

* they make it easier to install/remove wheels, 
especially when running wider ( 2"+ ) rim/tire combos, 
also depending on other frame geometry of course, but you get the idea


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

My experience of commuting has been that as long as the bike goes, stops (which you'd mess up,) and shifts, "fastering" the bike has little to no effect on how long it takes me to get places. Traffic, traffic signals, and routing really drove that for me.

Squishy forks can be annoying, though. So I'm sympathetic to swapping out your fork. If there's actually something wrong with your bottom bracket, get another of the same, something somebody else suggested above. Shimano still makes square taper, they're pretty good, and they're cheap.

I don't think changing your brake mounts is feasible. It's an aluminum bike, right? So you'd have to weld on something, then repeat the frame's heat treatment. Though if you're hell-bent on doing this, I wonder how well changing to V-brakes and keeping the same levers might work.

In a sense, you're doing the opposite of the Plus bike movement. I'd seen that as being about fatter tires, just not all the way to 4".


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## Ghost_HTX (Sep 19, 2014)

This seems like a fools errand to me. Not that I'm calling you a fool - but this course of action is rather, well, silly. 
Why are you so fixated on 29 inch wheels? You aren't going to be able to fit any sort of wide tyre there - the clearance just isn't there in the frame. This modification is not going to add any performance to the bike what so ever. Most likely you'll take a reasonably nice old bike and ruin it.
I would seriously recommend going the 650b route if you are so keen on adding bigger wheels, though.

Seriously - the money you spend here could easily be put into a used CX or gravel bike, you know, designed for 700c wheels, nice clearance for 40mm tyres, nice comfy drop bars for commuting and 100% guaranteed to, well, work!


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> My experience of commuting has been that as long as the bike goes, stops (which you'd mess up,) and shifts, "fastering" the bike has little to no effect on how long it takes me to get places.


Speed is really not my main motivation,
rather hill-climbing and 'rollability (terrain negotiation).'

I've ridden larger-diameter wheels, and they do roll over rough terrain
more easily, decreasing the chances of getting thrown by any debris, divot or pothole in the path that might indeed otherwise,
on a 26" wheelset.
In my experience, larger wheels also make it easier to climb hills
(gearset being equal and already maxed for that).



AndrwSwitch said:


> I don't think changing your brake mounts is feasible.


Neither do I.



AndrwSwitch said:


> It's an aluminum bike, right?


It's cro-mo steel ('96 Schwinn Moab 3.0 ).



AndrwSwitch said:


> I wonder how well changing to V-brakes and keeping the same levers might work.


That sounds like what I plan to use:
Linear-pull / V-brakes, on the frame's existing posts.

update: Okay, 'levers' as in brake levers on the handlebars. If that's what was referred to, I hadn't really planned on replacing them...now that you mention it though, I might try to upgrade them later. The stock ones are a bit chintzy; 
I'd expect even more so on the bigger wheels. It'd be nice to have good solid levers.



AndrwSwitch said:


> In a sense, you're doing the opposite of the Plus bike movement.


How so? I'm not really changing the width at all (still @ 2" or so),
just going with a larger diameter 622/700c/29er wheelset.
Certainly I'll try to go as wide as it can
(same as I've always done with the 26 wheelset),
but I don't expect much more (if any) over a 2" (ERTO w 47-50mm).

_update: I've tried a 29er wheel in the rear/frame dropout, 
with a 19mm inner-width rim. and a 29x2" (622-52mm) Innova Hybrid tire. 
It fits: the hub axle falls into place, *but* 
the 2+ Innova tire snugs just a bit against the rear/chainstay (seat-stay is fine).

What I'll probably do is use a slightly wider 23-27mm rim, and 47-50mm tires.
Actually I think the 47-to-50's will fit on the 19 rim, 
but a slightly wider rim would help keep the tire height 'trim'_


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

47 mm is less than 2". I'm not surprised a 2" tire didn't fit. I stuck a 700C wheel with a 23 mm tire in the front of my 26" mountain bike a while ago just to see if it would fit, and it looked a touch taller than a 26" wheel with 2.1" tire - so plenty of clearance to ride that way, but limited if I wanted to go bigger.

I think you're not getting me about pull ratios. Cantilever and sidepull brakes use a relatively short amount of cable pull at relatively high tension. V-brakes use a lot more cable pull at relatively low tension. The mechanical advantage comes from the brake caliper, rather than the lever. If you stuck V brakes on this bike and changed nothing else, you'd get a lot of stopping power and not much modulation. Tuning your brakes not to drag would also be finicky. If you moved the brake pads really far up the arms, you'd lose some of the force at the pad but they'd travel further when you operated the lever the same amount. I don't know if it would be enough, though, or if they'd still feel like ass. Cantilever brakes wouldn't have the stopping power you expect. Sidepulls are a crapshoot because you're relying on the fork crown and chainstay bridge to be in the right places and stiff enough, and they were never designed for either.

While I agree that bigger wheels roll better on rough terrain, for me, that's not that big a deal on the road. I'd rather be on my road bike. Or on my way to a trailhead. 

Did you have a specific product in mind for the brakes? I know Paul Components advertises his brakes as having a ton of adjustability, but they're also very expensive. It's easily enough that the project will cost as much as a bike that comes out of the box with 700Cs and components selected to work together.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

Ghost_HTX said:


> This seems like a fools errand to me.
> Not that I'm calling you a fool - but this course of action is rather, well, silly.


With zero mods to the frame 
(except a swap to a rigid fork I planned on anyway),
if I can run a 29x2" wheelset in the bike, 
what's so 'foolish' or 'silly' about that? 
People do this type of thing all the time. 
It's fun. It's about about discovery and being creative and resourceful. 
That's why I'm here talking to you, btw.



Ghost_HTX said:


> Why are you so fixated on 29 inch wheels?


I'm interested because I've ridden mostly 26" wheelsets, 
but I know that larger wheels roll more easily over rough areas, and
they make it easier to climb hills (all other things, maxed-gearset /etc being equal).



Ghost_HTX said:


> You aren't going to be able to fit any sort of wide tyre there -
> the clearance just isn't there in the frame.


Where'd you get the idea that this was about wider tires? 
I'm just swapping from a 26" to a larger-diameter (29er/622/700c) wheelset.
The tire widths (@ 2" or 47-50mm ERTO) I'll use 
will remain the same as what I've used on the 26 wheels. 
I've already checked, tested a 29er wheel-mount, 
in the frame's dropout. It's doable.



Ghost_HTX said:


> This modification is not going to add any performance to the bike what so ever.


What an outlandishly ignorant, if not arrogant statement. 
I hope you're just trolling.
Whatever, I don't mind passing the time...

larger wheels make easier to:

* roll over certain rough terrain obstacles,
* climb hills/inclines

I already know this from my own experience 
with both sizes of wheels (26 band 29) which I've used on my commute.



Ghost_HTX said:


> Most likely you'll take a reasonably nice old bike and ruin it.


Again with the ignorant/arrogant presumption. 
Where do you get off saying this? 
I'm not doing any mods (no metal fab stuff) to the bike.



Ghost_HTX said:


> I would seriously recommend going the 650b route if you are so keen on adding bigger wheels, though.


Why should I stop at 650b, if it can fit 29/622/700c?

Btw, let me guess, you're British, you said 'keen'...but, 
you didn't use the wording 'keen to' which would have been a dead giveaway
(don't know if British slang uses 'dead giveaway' it means 'proof', lol).

Now that I think about it, you said 'tyre' too instead of 'tire,'
so that pretty much seals it; I'm quite sure you're British, mate.



Ghost_HTX said:


> Seriously - the money you spend here could easily be put into a used CX or gravel bike, you know, designed for 700c wheels,


What money do you think I'm going to spend?

At most, for a used set of V-brakes, 
and a used 29er (23-27mm) rim MTB wheelset? 
I've already got tires, and tubes won't really cost anything.



Ghost_HTX said:


> nice clearance for 40mm tyres,


I'll be able to run 29er tire widths in the range of 47-50mm on the current bike.



Ghost_HTX said:


> nice comfy drop bars for commuting


Not really into drop bars; I prefer hybrid/MTB geometry.
However, there is a 'Moto-bc' Grand Record (roadie with drop-bars) 
that I like for the money, so might give those a try.



Ghost_HTX said:


> and 100% guaranteed to, well, work!


a 29 x ( <2" ) wheelset swap will work, in the '96 Moab 3.06 frame I'm using.

I've already tested it.

I'll be able to use wheelsets, with diameter range from 26" to 29."

I won't be worse off either way, 
whichever wheelset/diameter I opt to use on any given day.

Btw, even though I'm done, I'd like to continue this conversation with you sometime on the Beer forum here, once I'm good n' drunk.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> 47 mm is less than 2".
> I'm not surprised a 2" tire didn't fit.


Tires are often slightly bigger or smaller than their marked size.
This innova Hybrid Slick tire is labeled both 29 x 2 and as 622-52, 
and it every bit looks to be big/thick for 2" tire.



AndrwSwitch said:


> I think you're not getting me about pull ratios. Cantilever and sidepull brakes use a relatively short amount of cable pull at relatively high tension. V-brakes use a lot more cable pull at relatively low tension. The mechanical advantage comes from the brake caliper, rather than the lever.


A V-brake would be what I'd use... 
I have a Promax set on my 26" folder--- Long pads and long arms.
Hopefully I can find a similar used set somewhere for sale.

I just had the terminology slightly confused:
Side-pull = "U" brake, right? 
I thought 'sidepull' was a V-brake, 
since the cable is pulled horizontally, from one 'side'...

A U-brake has the whole -pull' mechanism _on-the-side_, 
but the cable is pulled _vertically_

Anyway, I meant 'horizontal-pull / V-brake' is what I'll use.



AndrwSwitch said:


> If you stuck V brakes on this bike and changed nothing else, you'd get a lot of stopping power and not much modulation. Tuning your brakes not to drag would also be finicky. If you moved the brake pads really far up the arms, you'd lose some of the force at the pad but they'd travel further when you operated the lever the same amount.


I think the V-brakes' the longish arms,
*with long brake pads*, and a good strong cable will work fine.



AndrwSwitch said:


> While I agree that bigger wheels roll better on rough terrain, for me, that's not that big a deal on the road. I'd rather be on my road bike. Or on my way to a trailhead.


My 6-mile commute is a bit of mixed terrain, mostly pavement,
with long, more level stretches, long gradual inclines, 
and a few steeper hills.



AndrwSwitch said:


> Did you have a specific product in mind for the brakes?


So far I know that Promax makes a product that resembles what I need.
I'm hoping they make a slightly bigger set than what's on my 26" folder.



AndrwSwitch said:


> I know Paul Components advertises his brakes as having a ton of adjustability, but they're also very expensive. It's easily enough that the project will cost as much as a bike that comes out of the box with 700Cs and components selected to work together.


They sound like nice brakes (think I've heard of the Paul brand), 
but I'll probably go as cheap as I can with it, pay what I need to, 
to get a decent brake set--- 
one that's reliable with straightforward maintenance.

_update: 
Those Paul BMX Motolite V Brakes look like exactly what I'd need...
*** Thanks for the lead on the Paul brakes ***
It'll be tough to not just want to fork out money for them...
I'm sure they're worth it...If I can't find anything else worth using, 
I'll then go with the Paul BMX's. Thanks again

update 11/1/15:
Currently going with the Promax P-1 108mm V-brakes (35mm pad range)
Got a complete set, new without box on ebA for 45 USD total.
Red anodized/metallic finish, matches the bike. I hope they work.

There was another set of V-brakes, from Taiwan, 
branded 'Starry' if i read correctly.
They have super wide/high pad adjust range, on 110mm arms.
28 USD set-per-wheel, so 56 USD to brake both wheels.
Not as pretty as the Promax but definitely more pad range, 
rivaling that of the Paul Motolites, 
but again, not as clean- or strong-looking as the Pauls.

Prices include shipping. Their ad was screwed up. It closed when I tried to buy,
and I couldn't set a quantity or choose a color from as advertised.
Still trying to work out a sale with them.

-----------------

update 11/5/15:

Found a set of long-arm alloy V-brakes, from a Taiwan seller on 'ebA' :
*125mm arms* --- *45mm of pad adjust range. 35 USD total (free shipping) *

_


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I stuck a 700C wheel with a 23 mm tire in the front of my 26" mountain bike a while ago just to see if it would fit, and it looked a touch taller than a 26" wheel with 2.1" tire - so plenty of clearance to ride that way, but limited if I wanted to go bigger.


If you go with a wider 29er rim, 
like say an SR Lite 622-27 or SR lite XL 622-29,
you could probably run a (45 or 47)-622 slick tire. 
Result should be a wide, rim-supported contact patch, with lower profile on the rim --- fast-rolling-yet-cushy ride.


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## Ghost_HTX (Sep 19, 2014)

At the end of the day, its your time, your money and I wish you luck with it. Even if I think its rather silly I dont have any ill will toward you so have at it, hoss.

Post pics when done.


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## Ghost_HTX (Sep 19, 2014)

Oh, and since you brought it up, the answer is Scottish.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Visualize a nut cracker. They let you crack nuts with relatively little force if you put the nut down near the hinge, but don't work so well if you have the nut up near the handles. It's pretty much the same deal with brakes. And they can be pretty sensitive to messing with the geometry. I don't think different brake pads will help all that much either.

I've messed with the brakes on a couple of my road bikes for different reasons. My 'cross bike came with low-profile cantilevers and nothing I did ever made them work well. That included changing to s longer pad in a holder. Nice pads too - Kool Stop salmon. When I swapped for mini-Vs, which are a V brake for a short pull lever, I liked the bike a whole lot better. They took saalittle getting used to because the stopping power ramps up very quickly. I think I might actually like them better with a little less leverage.

For a couple years, I commuted on a mid-80s road bike that came to me with 27" wheels. I wore out the rear wheel, so I built a 700C replacement. I figured 622 mm isn't so different from 630 mm, but moving the braking track 4 mm further from the pivot point actually really hurt braking performance.

Point being, if you want to experiment and tinker, Godspeed. But this is a relatively sensitive system and over time and with s few different bikes, I've become more and more inclined to stick with simple solutions that are purpose-built to work together where my brakes (and most things on my bikes) are concerned.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

And I should add that I'm not that interested in figuring out how to get my 26" bike rolling best on 29" rims. I primarily use it off-road. I sometimes think of sticking 650B in there, but there's nothing wrong with its current wheels and I'd rather have 2.3" wide tires than taller rims. I have a purpose-built 29er for that anyway.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Just occurred to me - check out Avid Speed Dial brake levers.


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

Cantilever brakes levers pull a different amount of cable than V brake levers .I tried V brakes with canti levers ,they didn't work very well. Avid use to make what they called a roll-a-ma- gig ,that helped.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

Ghost_HTX said:


> Oh, and since you brought it up, the answer is Scottish.


Scottish on my dad's side and Irish on "me mum's" :eekster:


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> And I should add that I'm not that interested in figuring out how to get my 26" bike rolling best on 29" rims. I primarily use it off-road. I sometimes think of sticking 650B in there, but there's nothing wrong with its current wheels and I'd rather have 2.3" wide tires than taller rims. I have a purpose-built 29er for that anyway.


I'm sure I got carried away. Btw, I found a set of red anodized V-brakes, to match the frame: Promax P-1 (108mm arms), 35mm of pad adjust range, base of which is already @ 1" above the brake posts. @ $45 for the whole set, front & rear. I'll post back how they work out.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Did you have a specific product in mind for the brakes? I know Paul Components advertises his brakes as having a ton of adjustability, but they're also very expensive. It's easily enough that the project will cost as much as a bike that comes out of the box with 700Cs and components selected to work together.


The Paul Motolite BMX brakes would be *perfect* for the job: 
simple rock-sold, forged-looking (actually CNC) design. Evidently they're handmade (on a CNC machine) in the USA, which explains the cost:

@ 115.00 USD per wheel :eekster: . For.Brakes. :eekster:
230 to brake. Both. Wheels.

I found two alternatives:

Promax P-1, 108mm arms, 35mm of pad adjust 
45-65 USD to brake both wheels.

A Taiwan product, branded "Starry" I think. It's the only one of the two that has very wide pad adjust to rival the Paul brakes---
only 56 USD to brake both wheels


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

*26-to-29er build: brakes OK, wheel clearance 'iffy'*



Ghost_HTX said:


> At the end of the day, its your time, your money and I wish you luck with it. Even if I think its rather silly I dont have any ill will toward you so have at it, hoss.
> 
> Post pics when done.


Yeah, you got me thinking though, and I really hope it doesn't do something scary 
or tragic to the brake posts. Then I _would_ have to mod the bike, or get another bike, lol.

Update, 11/3/15: braking should be OK,as there are usable components available, for good V-braking...that said, a valid concern is wheel/tire clearance... i.e., a bigger wheel may fit, but with minimal clearance in the stays/ wheel well...good clearance is asafety feature on bikes,onimizing the possobility of the wheel locking up at speed when rolling, as from trail debris getting caught in the wheel/stay area...

That said, in my case, I don't really ride that fast, and mostly commute on pavement, but wheel clearance is a concern, something to keep in mind...

One thing the conversion will do is put the front a bit more upright, to a moderate/relaxed riding position, and less of a leaned-over drop-down road position...this will be mainly due to the rigid fork I'll be swapping in place of the cheap/spongy stock suspension fork currently on the bike.

*edit 11/14/15*: Turns out the current tires pictured on the bike are a bit low-profile on the rim, and made it seem like there was more clearance than actual...
Result is that I expect I'll be using tires in the 40-45mm range...not '700c' wheels, but they won't be '29ers' either...


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## Ghost_HTX (Sep 19, 2014)

2wTrekr said:


> Scottish on my dad's side and Irish on "me mum's" :eekster:


Braw! Always nice to meet a fellow scot


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

2wTrekr said:


> Yeah, you got me thinking though, and I really hope it doesn't do something scary
> or tragic to the brake posts. Then I _would_ have to mod the bike, or get another bike, lol.


As mentioned, if this is something you really want to do, have fun and post pics/what you did. Always good to learn what other people did. I still think the risk outweighs the gains when using some 26" slicks would work just as well, and the money saved could go towards an upgrade to road/hybrid/29er bike later on.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

*1996 Moab 3.0 26", modded to also run 650b/29"/700c wheels*



watts888 said:


> As mentioned, if this is something you really want to do, have fun and post pics/what you did. Always good to learn what other people did. I still think the risk outweighs the gains when using some 26" slicks would work just as well, and the money saved could go towards an upgrade to road/hybrid/29er bike later on.


Well I finally did it, completed the mod-swap to allow for wheelsets up to: 
* 650b x 50mm+ (not tested yet)
* 700c x 40mm (622-42)

The current V-brake system also allows 'retro-fit' of the bike, i.e. 
with the original/26" wheels, with a simple/routine brakepad adjustment.

Did mod-swaps in 2 main areas,
*brake system* and *front/steering*:

1. Swapped the stock/canti brakes for an *extra long V brake* system,
still using '26-level' brake bosses:

* 125mm arms, 44mm pad travel/adjust (red anodized or black)
* available from Taiwan seller on 'eBA,' search "extra long V brake"
* paid $36.50 US for the set (for both wheels), free S&H 
* blue or yellow anodized sets are available for 45 USD free S&H

I then added *Avid FR-5 brake levers*; installed *Jagwire* cables.

The new 'long' V-brake system assembly works quite well --- 
good strong pull, if not an improvement over the stock/canti- brake system.
i.e. I haven't noticed any compromise in pull/grip with the longer brake arms, based on prior concerns. Instead I've noticed improved braking, 
with the new linear-pull (v-brake) mech/modality.

2. Swapped from the stock/sloppy SF to a rigid steel fork:

* opted for a *Kona Project Two fork*, threadless,
clean with rim-brake bosses only, no disc mount.
Steerer tube is 1 1/8" as that of the stock fork.

* In the process of fork selection, I learned that:

---> a 26" fork with
an A-C near 400mm will work for a 700x40 "tire," and also that

---> a 26" fork with A-C near 450mm or more will work, however 
it will *jack up* the front end lol, to a generally ball-crushing incline, 
or perhaps 'cruiser-style' for the more inseam-resilient among us.

* because the new/rigid fork is threadless, a new stem was required.
31.x (?) is a common mount diameter (but larger than the stock),
So that's what I went with, and then got a cheap 
alloy short bar (shorter than the stock bar) to match.

* I also swapped for an *FSA DH Pro No. 15* headset, 
threadless, with sealed bearings.

BTW: Although I thought about it,
I didn't try to re-use the stock/threaded headset, 
with the new threadless rig, but I think it might have worked,
depending on how the top of the headset was held together.
I know part of the top threads onto a threaded steerer-tube,
but I think there was also a 'top-ring' part, 
that threaded onto the headset itself, to help secure everything. 
Might try that on a rainy day to see if it works.

After hunting around for all the right/needed (but affordable) tools,
required parts (and perhaps optional ones such as 
headset and bar), here's a few pics of the *'96 Schwinn Moab 3*(.1).

If anybody has any questions on tools or parts for this type of swap-mod,
to a 26" bike to allow the bike to run larger-diameter wheelsets, let me know, and I'll try to answer.

The current wheels are 700c/29" *Sun Rhyno Lite* (622-27),
with *CST E-Series Reach* tires 700c x 40 (622-42).
They are road/ semi-slicks, featuring a 'cut-and-etched' tread accent.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

THANKS  :

*Andrwswitch* - for recommending the Avid brake levers. 
I went with the basic FR-5s 
(without the adjusters as on the Avid Speed-Dial levers).
The Avid levers are sturdy and strong!
Without your recommendation At best, I'd be trying to 'slog it' 
with the chintzy stock levers lol.

*Ghost_HTX* and *watts888* - points are well taken on 650b / 27.5 wheelsets.
They will allow install options of wider "50mm+" tires, 
with generally the same overall diameter
of a 700c wheelset having more narrow tires.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


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