# Which complete would you get?



## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

After Christmas this year I'm going to get a dj. Which would you choose between these 2 07 models?

I'm leaning toward the Giant because it's SS already and lighter(I assume) but that doesn't necessarily matter.

Specialized P2 Cr-Mo
http://specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=16872

Giant STP SS
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/030.000.000/030.000.006.asp?model=11491

Thanks!!

Dave


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## joshfromkent (Jun 21, 2006)

*p.2*

p.2 cromo, super nice bike, they cleaned the frame up.i love giant, but that stp just doesn't do it for me.


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

Why not just get the P1? SS and has better stuff than the STP.


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

Raghavan said:


> Why not just get the P1? SS and has better stuff than the STP.


Honestly I just didn't notice so thanks for the pointer:thumbsup:

I didn't realize that the P1 was also Cr-Mo according to the specs...

I wish the P1 was available in white but that's no biggie.

Keep em coming but lets now change the primary focus between the P1 and STP SS...also include any other completes that are already SS that you like. I'm open to debate


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## Cru Jones (Aug 10, 2006)

You might consider a DK Xenia 26. I haven't seen many of them around. It looks simple and solid. And it's at a great price ($650 MSRP). Or, maybe consider a General Lee. Yeah, it's 24" cruiser with a solid fork, but it's a hell of a deal for a complete bike ($270 MSRP). And, personally, I think learning to jump on a smaller bike really helps develop bike skills. But, both the P1 and STP would be great choices as well. Good luck!!! :thumbsup:

http://www.dkbicycles.com/bikes/bikes.html


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

I like the STP, but just can't get over it as an SS. Giant really needs to step up and make one with horizontal dropouts for SS, which baffles me why they haven't yet, they have a version of the XTC with horizontal dropouts for SS!
I don't personally know anything about the new redesigned P bikes so I can't say much.

how about a Norco, I really dig their completes, and if I weren't so much into building up my own rigs, that is the route I would go.


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

get the p1. first of all ,the giant has veriticle dropouts and a tensioner which sucks dink for ss. And the p1 looks way cool with that green colour and brown grips and seat. Plus its cromo which is great.


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

cummings said:


> get the p1. first of all ,the giant has veriticle dropouts and a tensioner which sucks dink for ss. And the p1 looks way cool with that green colour and brown grips and seat. Plus its cromo which is great.


Thanks for all the replys.

I'm definately leaning toward the P1 now. I really like all the bikes that have been posted but they are generally higher in price and most are not already SS.

Keep em coming.


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

making a bike SS only costs about $20 so what is there to worry about


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

derfernerf said:


> making a bike SS only costs about $20 so what is there to worry about


I disagree and here is why. I'll stick with Specialized for this example though all the geared bikes I've looked at are typically higer than the prices below..

P.2 $880
P.1 $770
So what we get is a bike that is not a single speed, the P2, costing 110 dollars more and then adding another $20 to convert it to SS. 
The parts taken off are not that high end so you may or may not get your money back for them if you sale them.

$130 is plenty to worry about when you're on a budget.


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## namaSSte (Dec 19, 2003)

Dave Moore said:


> I disagree and here is why. I'll stick with Specialized for this example though all the geared bikes I've looked at are typically higer than the prices below..
> 
> P.2 $880
> P.1 $770
> ...


the cromo frame is a huge + in my opinion. for urban and park, you'll wail on that thing and its only a matter of time before you put a good ding in an alu frame. alu is great for many applications but I personally don't think urban and park are two of those.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Hey, I realize budget is a high concern (with most all of us, myself included), but really, it shouldn't take you too long to save up another $200 for a bike you will extremely love, compared to just settling short for another just to get it quicker. 
again, I'll HIGHLY recommend the Norco 250 right now. the msrp may seem high, but you should be able to get some off at your LBS.
the 250 is DECKED this year, straight up! I really love it, and I'm usually highly against buying completes since I love building so much, but... this thing comes with a spanish BB (mtb market is just starting to realize the benefits here even though bmx has been doing it for quite awhile, since they invented it..), comes with a sweet SS Micro-drive set-up already on it, Half-link chain, 14mm rear axle (c'mon tell me others besides Eastern26 and DMR who are already doing this with 135mm), Macneil seat and post, AND! PINK spokes! man, this thing just hit me right I guess... I almost just talked myself into buying one... haha, j/k.


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## theg1ant (Oct 21, 2005)

I say stp ss but if you get a p series get a p.1


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> Hey, I realize budget is a high concern (with most all of us, myself included), but really, it shouldn't take you too long to save up another $200 for a bike you will extremely love, compared to just settling short for another just to get it quicker.
> again, I'll HIGHLY recommend the Norco 250 right now. the msrp may seem high, but you should be able to get some off at your LBS.
> the 250 is DECKED this year, straight up! I really love it, and I'm usually highly against buying completes since I love building so much, but... this thing comes with a spanish BB (mtb market is just starting to realize the benefits here even though bmx has been doing it for quite awhile, since they invented it..), comes with a sweet SS Micro-drive set-up already on it, Half-link chain, 14mm rear axle (c'mon tell me others besides Eastern26 and DMR who are already doing this with 135mm), Macneil seat and post, AND! PINK spokes! man, this thing just hit me right I guess... I almost just talked myself into buying one... haha, j/k.


The micro drive may be kinda cool, but there is no option for bashguard, unless you buy a new sprocket. Maybe its not a big deal to some people, but since there isnt any pegs, thats what alot of bikers will use to grind on. Specialied has bash. Halflink chain, cool, no biggie tho. Wheels on both, meh, not much difference. Brakes, the Norco comes with hayes mech while specialized comes with avid mech. big difference there. Avid owns hayes when it comes to mech brakes. The fork really isnt that differernt. And those pink spokes..... disgusting. Might be cool to brag about for a while, but I wouldnt wanna ride that crap. The bike isnt even pink. Its just a rondom spot of ugly colour. The Specialized on the other hand has colours that go together. 
So ya, you get a slightly better fork, and the 14mm axle, but I dont think thats really worth extra $220, and its definatly not a situation like you said "save another 200 and get a bike you will extremly love compared to settling for another to get it quicker."

***BTW, you said tell me other who are doing 14mm with 135mm other than dmr and eastern....... Banshee.

Bro, go with big S


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

cummings said:


> The micro drive may be kinda cool, but there is no option for bashguard, unless you buy a new sprocket. Maybe its not a big deal to some people, but since there isnt any pegs, thats what alot of bikers will use to grind on. Specialied has bash. Halflink chain, cool, no biggie tho. Wheels on both, meh, not much difference. Brakes, the Norco comes with hayes mech while specialized comes with avid mech. big difference there. Avid owns hayes when it comes to mech brakes. The fork really isnt that differernt. And those pink spokes..... disgusting. Might be cool to brag about for a while, but I wouldnt wanna ride that crap. The bike isnt even pink. Its just a rondom spot of ugly colour. The Specialized on the other hand has colours that go together.
> So ya, you get a slightly better fork, and the 14mm axle, but I dont think thats really worth extra $220, and its definatly not a situation like you said "save another 200 and get a bike you will extremly love compared to settling for another to get it quicker."
> 
> ***BTW, you said tell me other who are doing 14mm with 135mm other than dmr and eastern....... Banshee.
> ...


we obviously differ highly!  I like pink (not too much, like pink tires or something) and brown, haha, and I guess that's just the beginning of where our views spread apparantly... no beef though. It's all opinion, and up to readers to sort through them... I look at your bike and say, eh... you look and mine and say the same thing... some other joe comes along and digs it.... who knows... even riding them is a highly opinionated matter that comes down to the person specifically... man, these online recommendation threads can get outta hand...
interesting I did not know banshee was using the 14mm as well, what hub are you running? I know there are a handful of other companies out there using it, but I was just making a point, it's rare. as for your recommendation to the "Big S"... to each his own, I won't be buying any, nor recommending them.


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> we obviously differ highly!  I like pink (not too much, like pink tires or something) and brown, haha, and I guess that's just the beginning of where our views spread apparantly... no beef though. It's all opinion, and up to readers to sort through them... I look at your bike and say, eh... you look and mine and say the same thing... some other joe comes along and digs it.... who knows... even riding them is a highly opinionated matter that comes down to the person specifically... man, these online recommendation threads can get outta hand...
> interesting I did not know banshee was using the 14mm as well, what hub are you running? I know there are a handful of other companies out there using it, but I was just making a point, it's rare. as for your recommendation to the "Big S"... to each his own, I won't be buying any, nor recommending them.


Thats cool man. opinions are opinions. good to have lots of info for the buyer. Ya, right now Im running a 10mm bolt on, but the scratch comes with 2 different sets of rear end hardware for the 14mm too.


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## f0ggy (Jul 5, 2006)

I am selling an 05 giant stp frame, and fork if your interested, I bought it in feb of 06, absolutely love it, Its not SS but cant you convert? Any ways it will be a good deal


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

f0ggy said:


> I am selling an 05 giant stp frame, and fork if your interested, I bought it in feb of 06, absolutely love it, Its not SS but cant you convert? Any ways it will be a good deal


Thanks but I built my XC race bike and though it's better that way I spent way too much money on it and had just rather buy a complete this time around for cost savings.


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## ihatemybike (Nov 27, 2005)

I'd go with the P1. Steel and SS, shouts tough. Now where the hell are the v-brake mounts?


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

P.1 all the way, even though the giant is a really sick bike for this year. but one option you could consider, it GT's new bikes. I personally think the Ruckus UF is a sick bike. the brakes really arent the best though, but I've used Tektro IO brakes for DJ before, you should be fine. fork is half decient. it isnt the same price as the others though $650.00 so you'd have some $$ to play with. just something to throw out there, they also have a 24" model, but its more a park bike. also something cool, this frame uses a euro BB :thumbsup:


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

Go for the STP! I don't have a really rational reason for saying that beyond me hating Specialized.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Norco 250 I believe is single speed as well... there it is!

http://www.norco.com/2007bikes/Mountain/Supercross/model.php?id=31&view=1&deets=2


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

Go with Addict Cycles. Small, American outfit based out of Boulder, CO. Support the little guy! AND you get a free upgrade from a Stance (poo!) to a Gold Label!!! 
Specs:
Top Tube 21.8"
Chain Stay 15.75" - 16.65"
Seat Tube 11.15"
Wheel Base 41.1" - 42"
BB Height 13.25"
Stand Over 26.25"
Head Tube 4.55"
Head Tube Angle 69.5º
Seat Tube Angle 70.3º
Seat Post Size 27.2 mm
Finish Ano. Black

Fork Manitou Gold Label
Bars FSA FR-330
Stem FSA FR-220
Headset FSA Pig DH Deep Set
Crankset/BB FSA GAP MegaExo
Brake (rear) Hayes MX-2
Seatpost FSA FR-270
Seat SDG Freestyle
Wheel (front) Rockwerks disk/Rhynolite
Wheel (rear) Rockwerks SS Bolt-on /Rhynolite
Tires Kenda K-Rads


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## Cru Jones (Aug 10, 2006)

*Blk Mrkt Completes*

Hold up!!!! Check this out. This will probably end up being one of the best complete bike offerings out right now....

http://infantry5.com/interbike_Day_One.html


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## ihatemybike (Nov 27, 2005)

Those Black Markets look nice. I rode the GT at Ray's last year after trashing my rear wheel trying to take flips out of the foam pit. Rode pretty good after I made the fork as stiff as possible. I wish companies would release bikes with beefy rigid forks instead of crappy low end squish forks. Also, I want v-brake mounts on all street/park/dirt frames. Some of up like to do grinds and rails.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Cru Jones said:


> Hold up!!!! Check this out. This will probably end up being one of the best complete bike offerings out right now....
> 
> http://infantry5.com/interbike_Day_One.html


I'm curious what that black S&M bike behind the blue 45 is... with the stickerless goldlabel.... ?


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

I'd go with the 07 Brodie cretin. By far the sickest of the sick complete singlespeeders. 
Singlespeed, avids, AND AN ARGYLE! 

btw: sorry the pictures a bit cut off. this upload picture thing is retarded . . . :madman:


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

dirtyharry said:


> I'd go with the 07 Brodie cretin. By far the sickest of the sick complete singlespeeders.
> Singlespeed, avids, AND AN ARGYLE!
> 
> btw: sorry the pictures a bit cut off. this upload picture thing is retarded . . . :madman:


Sweet...but I bet the price shows it. I'm trying to keep it around 800. Another reason I don't want to build. If I build again I'd probably end up closer to 2k:eekster:


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## i_suck (Jun 22, 2006)

pavement_hurts said:


> Go with Addict Cycles. Small, American outfit based out of Boulder, CO. Support the little guy! AND you get a free upgrade from a Stance (poo!) to a Gold Label!!!
> Specs:
> Top Tube 21.8"
> Chain Stay 15.75" - 16.65"
> ...


i 2nd that, if your stuck on those two chices the STP is the ****, great bike my friend has one


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

Ah, I had the same issue when I was looking for a new bike. I'm guessing 950ish for the 07 Cretin.


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## joshfromkent (Jun 21, 2006)

we just got a p.1 at the shop. go that way, soo nice, probably the nicest complete in the price range.


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

joshfromkent said:


> we just got a p.1 at the shop. go that way, soo nice, probably the nicest complete in the price range.


Man, that green color is just so nasty though (IMHO). I think I'd spend the extra $110 just to get the P2 Chromo in white :thumbsup:

P2 Chromo $880









P1 $770


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

GotMojo? said:


> Man, that green color is just so nasty though (IMHO). I think I'd spend the extra $110 just to get the P2 Chromo in white :thumbsup:


the green looks a lot bettrer in person ...but so does the white :thumbsup: I got bored, and rode one around today, really a nice bike for the cash you spend, but I think for 850.00 ...the STP is a tiny bit nicer. the P. series is more versatile though.


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## Sudden_Judgement (Sep 13, 2006)

This is my absolute dream bike!


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Sudden_Judgement said:


> This is my absolute dream bike!


what does this have to do with the thread?

24's on that thing make it look like a toboggan!!! makes the cs's look way longer than reality. but the setup does look smooth for sure. grey DHR's? interesting. but I still hate those deity seats, just reminds me of one of those horrible skechers shoes on a seatpost...


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## Sudden_Judgement (Sep 13, 2006)

BikeSATORI said:


> what does this have to do with the thread?


Well, this is a "what bike" thread, and that is a bike.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

Seing as color and gears is the absolute ONLY difference between the P1 and P2 crmo, I'd get the P1. Those are piece of sh!t cranks on the both of them, but they'll serve their purpose. The cranks really got downgraded on the lesser P. bikes this year. 

Is it just me, or does the P2 Crmo look beefier than the P1?


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## xKREDx (Aug 8, 2006)

I would go with the P1.


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

> Is it just me, or does the P2 Crmo look beefier than the P1?


Now that you mention it, it sorta does. Must be an allusion caused from the white background...I guess.

All dj bikes mentioned are great but for price I'm still leaning heavily toward the P1.

The crankset would likely be the first upgrade. What cranksets do you reccomend?


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## ihatemybike (Nov 27, 2005)

Dave Moore said:


> The crankset would likely be the first upgrade. What cranksets do you reccomend?


Street/Park/DJ all you need to know is Profile Racing.

I have a pair that I've been beating/grinding on for 8 years.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

There is nothing beefier than a Shimano Saint. There are undoubtably stronger cranks, but if you want beefy, a Saint cannot be beat. At the thin part of the crank the arm is about an inch and a half wide and a half inch thick. At the thick middle part, about one and three quarters inch wide and at the thickest part about three quarter inches thick. Tell me that isn't beefy. 
Holzfellers are about the same strength as Saints I'm guessing, but they're not so beefy. Techinically that would make them stronger, I guess

I don't expect you to understand that. Just look at the Shimano Saint, won't you?


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

dirtyharry said:


> There is nothing beefier than a Shimano Saint. There are undoubtably stronger cranks, but if you want beefy, a Saint cannot be beat. At the thin part of the crank the arm is about an inch and a half wide and a half inch thick. At the thick middle part, about one and three quarters inch wide and at the thickest part about three quarter inches thick. Tell me that isn't beefy.
> Holzfellers are about the same strength as Saints I'm guessing, but they're not so beefy. Techinically that would make them stronger, I guess
> 
> I don't expect you to understand that. Just look at the Shimano Saint, won't you?


the definition of beefy equals the new SIC cranks. probably make the rest of your bike look like it's made out of toothpics.

I would have to agree with the above mentioned profiles (or similar and compatible Odyssey Thermal41 or wethepeople Royals, etc.)


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

dirtyharry said:


> There is nothing beefier than a Shimano Saint. There are undoubtably stronger cranks, but if you want beefy, a Saint cannot be beat. At the thin part of the crank the arm is about an inch and a half wide and a half inch thick. At the thick middle part, about one and three quarters inch wide and at the thickest part about three quarter inches thick. Tell me that isn't beefy.
> Holzfellers are about the same strength as Saints I'm guessing, but they're not so beefy. Techinically that would make them stronger, I guess
> 
> I don't expect you to understand that. Just look at the Shimano Saint, won't you?


its not all about how fat the cranks look. I've seen SR suntour make a massively fat crank, how strong do you think that is? Also, before Truvativ introduced the Holzfeller OCT, the Saint was the lightest of the dh cranks (raceface diabolous, shimano saint, truvativ holzfeller.) Just so you know, because it looks beefy, doesnt mean it is truly "beefy". Also, look at this article on the holzfeller OCT cranks. Read the stats and tests. might change your opinion on saints being the best.

Now, we should also consider bmx cranks like profile. those are nice cranks. deity is also good. find some reviews on profile, they are the sh!t.


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

my bad, forgot to post the damn link 

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/SRAM-2007-Freeride-product-preview-Truvativ.html


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## turrick (Aug 21, 2006)

p1 is stronger, stp is lighter. I ride the giant, I really like the way it handles. I'm trying a bunch of stuff on this bike, Jumping, Park, Street, Trials, and dual slolam racing. 
I love this bike.


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

turrick said:


> p1 is stronger, stp is lighter. I ride the giant, I really like the way it handles. I'm trying a bunch of stuff on this bike, Jumping, Park, Street, Trials, and dual slolam racing.
> I love this bike.


Does anyone know the weight difference between the STP and P1? 
I bet it's within about 5 lbs but thats a guess.

Oh and that OCT is just cool. I'm a big SRAM fan anyways.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Dave Moore said:


> Does anyone know the weight difference between the STP and P1?
> I bet it's within about 5 lbs but thats a guess.
> 
> Oh and that OCT is just cool. I'm a big SRAM fan anyways.


its not that much different. I used to have a 2005 P.1 cro mo and it weighed 27 pounds. the thing was amazingly light (dont understand how it was that light) but thats what it weighed in at. my old STP weighed in at around 33 pounds.

in terms of frames, the P. is quite a bit nicer. its a little tall, but for me thats a good thing. I just dont really care for short and squatty frames. component wise, the STP is a little nicer, but I would rather ride the P.1 frame anyday. Cr-Mo fo life yo :thumbsup:


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> .... its a little tall...


That could be a concern as I'm only 5'-6"

Nevermind...Just checked both websites and the Giant's standover is 30.8" whereas the P1 is 28.08". Whew, that's a good thing


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