# Project "green machine" Hotrock 20"



## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

New build for my grom.

2012 Hotrock20
Carbon Rav X bars
Chris King headset ( plus8 crown race)
Ame mini grips (red right for der. reminder "don't set on this side")
35mm Straitline stem
Thomson post
Odyssey seat
XT hubs/ stock hoops
Sins isis cranks (135) with custom MRP frame mount guide and BBG bash
990 11/34 casette
Old style XTR short cage
Kenda Small block 8's ( kevlar) with intense tubes
Redline stem pad.
XT V brakes with custom made levers (long lever with short reach)

And lovin every minute of it!


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

He's only 5 and in preschool but loves to fly! :thumbsup:

Credit goes to www.projektroam.com for the photo


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## SenorSerioso (Apr 22, 2011)

Amazing!


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## koretex (May 15, 2011)

AWESOME!!!!!

all caps for a reason....


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

nice build.

I always wondered about headsets. Does it make a difference?


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## Demo9 (Nov 20, 2006)

Sweet build, Love the Air!!!!


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

IAmHolland said:


> nice build.
> 
> I always wondered about headsets. Does it make a difference?


Well.....I had a old 1 1/8 king in a parts bin ( everything is tapered these day) and added a plus 8mm Ventana crown race to raise the bb a bit. Does it make a difference? I have destroyed loose ball style headsets, but on a grom, other than weight and no need for maintenance, there is no real difference in function.


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## bigstudent (Jan 14, 2011)

That's sweet bike. Very nice!
May I ask how tall is your son, please?


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

bigstudent said:


> That's sweet bike. Very nice!
> May I ask how tall is your son, please?


Thanks everyone for the kind words.
He's around 42" tall


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## BeginnerCycling (Nov 21, 2011)

Awesome bike & air!


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

m-dub said:


> He's only 5 and in preschool but loves to fly! :thumbsup:
> 
> Credit goes to www.projektroam.com for the photo


What is projektroam? I'd like to get my son into getting some more air. I'm not quite sure how to work with him on that.


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

IAmHolland said:


> What is projektroam? I'd like to get my son into getting some more air. I'm not quite sure how to work with him on that.


ProjektRoam is a husband and wife team that travel the country documenting "LEGAL" gravity mtb trails. I was lucky enough to be asked to film with them for there next video. This shot was taken during a trail day and my boys were shot for a article on Pinkbike.com.

As far as getting your son to take flight.......every kid has a comfortable pace of progression and it really just takes support and encouragement to get out and ride. As a skills instructor myself, I never push young kids. Kids will progress like crazy if they feel no pressure and just have fun, heck adults will too. I have NEVER pushed him into anything, he has just grown up around a ton of really good riders and thinks he is too. I actually told him to go around this hit and he just hit it on his own. :thumbsup:

If you want your kid to get better just take him riding and make it as fun as possible.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

m-dub said:


> ProjektRoam is a husband and wife team that travel the country documenting "LEGAL" gravity mtb trails. I was lucky enough to be asked to film with them for there next video. This shot was taken during a trail day and my boys were shot for a article on Pinkbike.com.
> 
> As far as getting your son to take flight.......every kid has a comfortable pace of progression and it really just takes support and encouragement to get out and ride. As a skills instructor myself, I never push young kids. Kids will progress like crazy if they feel no pressure and just have fun, heck adults will too. I have NEVER pushed him into anything, he has just grown up around a ton of really good riders and thinks he is too. I actually told him to go around this hit and he just hit it on his own. :thumbsup:
> 
> If you want your kid to get better just take him riding and make it as fun as possible.


Thanks. I do take him riding and he loves it. He does very well for his age, tackling steep descents and steep climbs. My limitation is that I do not know hot to get air myself, and am not comfortable at high speeds (30mph or so, 25-28 is about my limit). It's pretty sad. I suppose I can try and take lessons (hard to find) and pass on what I learn. He's way more adept and agile than I am. I have 2 left feet, he does not. It's sad, but true. I definitely don't want to limit him, and I think I am in this regard.

When I take him riding, I see him trying to get air, but I can offer nothing to help him. He boosts off rocks, and anything he can find. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the San Jose area, but when he goes down Fortini trail in Santa Teresa (which has lots of small rocks 4 inches tall or so) and a slight grade (6% or so), he tries to lift off the rocks at around 15mph. He also tries to ride the bowl in Arastradero, which has dirt ramps, but I don't know how to do that so I can't help him. I watch, but can't do.

He has been asking about jumps and things like that, but all I can say is that I have no idea about those things.


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

IAmHolland said:


> Thanks. I do take him riding and he loves it. He does very well for his age, tackling steep descents and steep climbs. My limitation is that I do not know hot to get air myself, and am not comfortable at high speeds (30mph or so, 25-28 is about my limit). It's pretty sad. I suppose I can try and take lessons (hard to find) and pass on what I learn. He's way more adept and agile than I am. I have 2 left feet, he does not. It's sad, but true. I definitely don't want to limit him, and I think I am in this regard.
> 
> When I take him riding, I see him trying to get air, but I can offer nothing to help him. He boosts off rocks, and anything he can find. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the San Jose area, but when he goes down Fortini trail in Santa Teresa (which has lots of small rocks 4 inches tall or so) and a slight grade (6% or so), he tries to lift off the rocks at around 15mph. He also tries to ride the bowl in Arastradero, which has dirt ramps, but I don't know how to do that so I can't help him. I watch, but can't do.
> 
> He has been asking about jumps and things like that, but all I can say is that I have no idea about those things.


The fact that he is trying and hitting everything in sight is awesome. Progression will come with his passion. This is the best for him to improve. Just keep doing what your doing and I think you will be amazed on how fast he will improve. And you my friend, need to grab a copy of Mastering Mountain biking skills ( By Lee McCormack and Brian Lopes) if no clinics are near. We all can always learn and improve, at any age and any level. Get a cheep little ramp ( the little skate versions are cool) and put it on your lawn. Hit that thing 100 times, it will give you a ton of confidence, Practice makes perfect. I bet my boys have 100's of hits on that thing.


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

Yeah just make a ramp and let him hit it over and over. Let em learn the hard way. One day I found my kid jumping off a piece of plywood he set a top a 4x4. It kept falling apart... Like a good dad I said let me put some nails in that for you  He will ride in circles for hours just to hit a jump


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## geek81 (Jan 3, 2011)

m-dub said:


> He's only 5 and in preschool but loves to fly! :thumbsup:
> 
> Credit goes to www.projektroam.com for the photo


Was just on PB and saw the article about project roam, and recognized the pic of your little ripper. Great stuff! :thumbsup:


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

IAmHolland said:


> Thanks. I do take him riding and he loves it. He does very well for his age, tackling steep descents and steep climbs. My limitation is that I do not know hot to get air myself, and am not comfortable at high speeds (30mph or so, 25-28 is about my limit). It's pretty sad. I suppose I can try and take lessons (hard to find) and pass on what I learn. He's way more adept and agile than I am. I have 2 left feet, he does not. It's sad, but true. I definitely don't want to limit him, and I think I am in this regard.
> 
> When I take him riding, I see him trying to get air, but I can offer nothing to help him. He boosts off rocks, and anything he can find. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the San Jose area, but when he goes down Fortini trail in Santa Teresa (which has lots of small rocks 4 inches tall or so) and a slight grade (6% or so), he tries to lift off the rocks at around 15mph. He also tries to ride the bowl in Arastradero, which has dirt ramps, but I don't know how to do that so I can't help him. I watch, but can't do.
> 
> He has been asking about jumps and things like that, but all I can say is that I have no idea about those things.





m-dub said:


> The fact that he is trying and hitting everything in sight is awesome. Progression will come with his passion. This is the best for him to improve. Just keep doing what your doing and I think you will be amazed on how fast he will improve. And you my friend, need to grab a copy of Mastering Mountain biking skills ( By Lee McCormack and Brian Lopes) if no clinics are near. We all can always learn and improve, at any age and any level. *Get a cheep little ramp ( the little skate versions are cool) and put it on your lawn. Hit that thing 100 times, it will give you a ton of confidence, Practice makes perfect. I bet my boys have 100's of hits on that thing.*


I get pictures later, but I made a simple low wedge ramp for my son and let him start on that. We had the plastic skate ramp for our Traxxas Slashs, but he was intimidated buy the size and curve.

One day, he built up the wedge ramp behind the skate ramp. Rode it that way until he had the confidence to hit it faster and faster. Once his back wheel was landing at the bottom of the wedge, we took it away.

I'll get some pictures up for you. It worked great for my son, so now I'm doing the same thing with my daughter.


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## Cinq (Jan 2, 2003)

Great bike build and awesome picture! My 9 year old got his Hot Rock 20 for his 6th birthday and he still loves it. I asked him if he wanted a bigger bike for his 9th birthday but he simply refused!

I will show my boys your air time picture tomorrow, they also love to jump off curbs and over roots 

Kind regards,

Clemens


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## 1rockhead (Feb 8, 2011)

Where did you pick up the Kenda tires? My son's are bald and need to replace with stock or better.


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## Cinq (Jan 2, 2003)

Check out the Schwalbe Mow Joe tires too, they are great!

Kind regards,

Clemens


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

1rockhead said:


> Where did you pick up the Kenda tires? My son's are bald and need to replace with stock or better.


My local shop had to get them dropped shipped from Quality ( distributor) Kenda will no longer sell direct to shops and even thought they had 80+ in stock they have to be sold through their distributor? The dual compound is worth the trouble in my opinion.


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

geek81 said:


> Was just on PB and saw the article about project roam, and recognized the pic of your little ripper. Great stuff! :thumbsup:


Thanks! There is a new video on Vitalmtb with my older son (8) and myself for a local Enduro race. It drove my little guy nuts not to get to ride with his big bro and dad. They love watching videos online with dad so when they got to see themselves on the sites the watch so much, they were pretty stoked.:thumbsup:

VP COMPONENTS: Dirt Club Enduro [June 23/24 2012] - projekt roam - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB

Hes in the green shirt and I'm on the Stumpy in all black.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

m-dub said:


> Thanks! There is a new video on Vitalmtb with my older son (8) and myself for a local Enduro race. It drove my little guy nuts not to get to ride with his big bro and dad. They love watching videos online with dad so when they got to see themselves on the sites the watch so much, they were pretty stoked.:thumbsup:
> 
> VP COMPONENTS: Dirt Club Enduro [June 23/24 2012] - projekt roam - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB
> 
> Hes in the green shirt and I'm on the Stumpy in all black.


Pretty sweet spot! Is he going to enter the race? It seems spotty for an 8yo, particularly session 2 and 3, but session 1 might be too long too.

I've also never heard of this place where the race is held. It sounds like it could almost be a vacation destination. It's a pretty sweet idea, actually, and the trails look nice!


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

IAmHolland said:


> Pretty sweet spot! Is he going to enter the race? It seems spotty for an 8yo, particularly session 2 and 3, but session 1 might be too long too.
> 
> I've also never heard of this place where the race is held. It sounds like it could almost be a vacation destination. It's a pretty sweet idea, actually, and the trails look nice!


Hes signed up but it all depends on the weather. He has ridden the whole corse and ridden it very well ( most the shots in the vid have him in them.) Not to sound like "that dad" but he is not your typical 8 year old. 15 mile rides are not unusual and Dh shuttles with guys 3 and 4 times is age are common. I wouldn't recommend most 8-12 year olds to even ride the courses. It can get silly hot ( triple digits are very common) so neither of us will be doing it if thats the case. We are all about fun and I have no plans on putting my little guy through an oven like experience. Also if we start and its gets to be to much, its an easy bailout.

The Venue is in Santa Ynez California. It a private riding area (pay to play deal) called the Dirt club. Destination? humm? I can think of better places to go but its a great place to ride for a day.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

m-dub said:


> Hes signed up but it all depends on the weather. He has ridden the whole corse and ridden it very well ( most the shots in the vid have him in them.) Not to sound like "that dad" but he is not your typical 8 year old. 15 mile rides are not unusual and Dh shuttles with guys 3 and 4 times is age are common. I wouldn't recommend most 8-12 year olds to even ride the courses. It can get silly hot ( triple digits are very common) so neither of us will be doing it if thats the case. We are all about fun and I have no plans on putting my little guy through an oven like experience. Also if we start and its gets to be to much, its an easy bailout.
> 
> The Venue is in Santa Ynez California. It a private riding area (pay to play deal) called the Dirt club. Destination? humm? I can think of better places to go but its a great place to ride for a day.


Your son sounds awesome! It's fine to be "that dad", lol. I think this sub-forum is full of that type.

My kid can do 15mi, 20 for the XC race might be pushing it. My 5yo gets a bit tired towards the end of 15 but can do 10 pretty easy, and 15 is fine for my 8yo. The difference, at least to me, is race pace. I get pretty wiped myself after a hard 15 at 90+% effort, I can't imagine what it would do to a kid, but if they go in to just finish and not get caught up in the race it'll be fine. That's the hard part, when the adrenaline takes over and you blow up. I think it's harder for a young kid to rationalize these things.

100+ degree weather can be dangerous for a kid, even adults if they don't pay attention to hydration, and have an adult/coach telling you to take fluids regularly. I've heard of some teens dying from it, and in dry weather it's really hard to notice and by the time you do it may be too late to avoid serious problems. I'd definitely bag too. 

Not destination. OK. I make it down to that area maybe once every few years and thought it might be nice, but I guess not.  Although, I tend to stay on the beach whenever I go, so maybe trying to add in riding is not a good idea. I did like the idea of pay to play, it would keep the yahoos and casual riders off, and hopefully keep it more empty. It sounds like it's not up to the marketing hype on their web page.


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

IAmHolland said:


> Your son sounds awesome! It's fine to be "that dad", lol. I think this sub-forum is full of that type.
> 
> My kid can do 15mi, 20 for the XC race might be pushing it. My 5yo gets a bit tired towards the end of 15 but can do 10 pretty easy, and 15 is fine for my 8yo. The difference, at least to me, is race pace. I get pretty wiped myself after a hard 15 at 90+% effort, I can't imagine what it would do to a kid, but if they go in to just finish and not get caught up in the race it'll be fine. That's the hard part, when the adrenaline takes over and you blow up. I think it's harder for a young kid to rationalize these things.
> 
> ...


Ha ha, so true! Im not trying to hype my kid, I just dont want others to think its a "kid friendly" ( as in you average under 12 kid) event. The cool thing about this event is your only timed on the DH sections and not the transitions. So you can take your time to get to each start and then pin it on the timed section. Its very much like a auto rally and not a XC race.


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## bigstudent (Jan 14, 2011)

m-dub, did you modify or anyhow change the fork on the 'Green machine'?

Also what bike is your older son riding in the video, I couldn't tell.

Thanks


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

bigstudent said:


> m-dub, did you modify or anyhow change the fork on the 'Green machine'?
> 
> Also what bike is your older son riding in the video, I couldn't tell.
> 
> Thanks


The fork is a Spinner off a Marin Hidden Canyon. I did ad a extra bottom out bumper and a some grease, but it is other wise stock. It is so much better that the stock fork. The feel is very similar to elastomer forks of 10+ years ago. No top out clunk and some rebound control makes it a real advantage to have. The stock fork is just a spring and no fun.

My older sons bike is here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/rbm-slayer-24-built-shred-747548.html

The only change to it is it now has a 30tooth front ring. It makes the climbs a bit easier and still has enough top end.

Both have logged a ton of miles and still going strong. :thumbsup:


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## bigstudent (Jan 14, 2011)

Thank you for sharing all that info, it's all very interesting as I have a small boy.

Both bikes look great btw!

Thanks


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## Echo22 (May 17, 2011)

Awesome bike! 
Going to take the ramp suggestion for my son-he just turned 7 & apparently behind the curve lol, time to start collecting parts for a 26 frame with 24in wheels


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## Surfpoodi (Sep 14, 2011)

M-Dub - so your 42" tall boy fits okay with the 20" wheels on the Specialized? I was concerned about standover, and the TT length for someone under 45".


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

Specialized has about the lowest standover out there


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

@Surf: As Shayne said above, the stand over is the lowest I have seen. Running a short 35/40mm stem and short cranks, my kido has zero fit issues. It is far from being to big. Remember T/TT is sometimes mis leading. A slacker seat tube ( like the Hotrock) will give a long top tube but a shorter front center (crank to bar measurement.)


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## Surfpoodi (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks M-Dub: FYI, bought a 2009 Hotrock this week. Little guy fits, but barely. Ordered a Ruben 30mm stem, which will help

Swapped out stock post/seat for an Alpha Q post with a super slim road saddle. That works, but the saddle is just silly long. I need a small super low profile set up. Wondering if a BMX pivotal set up would minimize distance from top to saddle to top of seat tube? Right now I have it down to 2.1", but as I said, the current saddle is way too long and get's in the way of stand over.


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

A pivotal may work but it does have a few disadvantages. It has no forward/back adjust and they were never really made to sit on ( ha ha, kinda funny for a seat hu) most are hard plastic with a thin or no cover and zero flex. I used a Odyssey mini. Small, short, low and light. Just kinda hard to source.


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## Surfpoodi (Sep 14, 2011)

m-dub said:


> A pivotal may work but it does have a few disadvantages. It has no forward/back adjust and they were never really made to sit on ( ha ha, kinda funny for a seat hu) most are hard plastic with a thin or no cover and zero flex. I used a Odyssey mini. Small, short, low and light. Just kinda hard to source.


Thanks. Do you happen to know how far the top of the Odyssey is from the rails? My current road saddle is slim, like 1.5" from rails to top. The stock HR saddle is 2", so I'm dealing in mm here.

Obviously not a long term issue, he will grow the half inch in a couple months. But I'd like to get him a solid light saddle for the longer haul.


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## bigstudent (Jan 14, 2011)

Hope this helps, its about 3cm (1 1/4 inch).


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## Surfpoodi (Sep 14, 2011)

bigstudent said:


> Hope this helps, its about 3cm (1 1/4 inch).


Thanks. I was actually eyeballing it to the top of the seat, not the bottom. But I'm willing to bet $30 bucks the padding isn't more than about 0.25" thick.


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## bigstudent (Jan 14, 2011)

m-dub, what lenght of spokes did you use to rebuild the wheels pls?

I am having problems with the original hoops and deore hubs :madman:


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## onetothepowerofn (Jan 24, 2005)

Great build! How many teeth does the front chainring have? I am sure you also considered going to discs - interested to hear the reasons why you are still running V-brakes?


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

@Surf, I mesured 1 5/8" from center of rails to top of padding. A thicker sock, shoe or pedal will make up that much  


@bigS, I really couldnt tell you. Sorry Im not a wheel builder. My local builder custom cut the spokes when he built them. If there is a mesurement I can get for you I will. Nipple to hub or?

@onetothepowerofn, Thanks, It is a 34 tooth and that was the smallest I could get with a 5 arm crank. I now found the Bombshell cranks in short lenght ( on my other sons bike) and with a 104 bcd you have alot more options. To be honest the 34 has worked out really well. Depending on how much you climb and how strong your kid-o is your results could vary. 

Why no disc? Well....the frame doesnt have tabs. The strength of a good v brake with a full lenght lever made to stop a 185lb adult on a 26" wheel is more than plenty of power for a 46lb kid and a 20" wheel. We have some full days at bike parks and no problems with breaking after a few thousand feet of draging brakes. With the few mods on the levers he can do endos with one finger, it has a super light feel. Plus they are a whole lot cheaper and lighter and when your kid stuffs them into the ground 50 times you wont be replacing hydro lines. But discs do look trick  Im not going to lie, I weighed out my options and making a tab for the frame but it just didnt seem worth it. The fork does have tabs but I dont think a disc on a 20" front wheel would be a good idea for a kid to learn with. No regreats on going disc.


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## bigstudent (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks m-dub, no need. I was going to get the spokes cut too, but I have managed to find some Sapim spokes at the right length. For anyone interested 194 for front wheel, and 194/198mm rear wheel.

As far as disc goes, I did think about them too, as I have some laying around. I have found even easy to add adapter. But unless one rides a lot in rain/mud I didn't see the need either, and would add a lots of weight.


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## onetothepowerofn (Jan 24, 2005)

Hey m-dub, just wondering if you still know the approximate weights on the following parts:
-Odessey seat
-Stock rims (I assume they are single wall)

How much weight did you save by swapping out the standard hubs - I assume it would be pretty significant.

What shifters did you end up running...twist shifters or triggers? My sons bike hast a twist shifter now but as it takes up so much room I was thinking of changing to a rear trigger shifters. What's your experience on this?

What exactly are the levers you are using? Could you post a photo? I was thinking about using Avid single digits but they are pretty short.

Thanks in advance!


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

Sorry I don't know remember the weights. The reason for me switching the hubs was to get rid of the spin on style and go with a cassette style hub that would allow me to run a 9 speed cassette. Its using a sram Attack shifter (had it in a parts bin) it uses the Shimano ratio. If I had to buy one I would have went X5 shifter and der. because they shift so crisp even at the lower price point. I can't see getting to carried away with shifters because they will end up stuck in the ground a bunch. The levers are very similar to single digits but I bent them so they sit closer to the bar and fit his finger. I think there is a photos of it here. All the parts are pretty much the same just a different frame and chain guide.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

The odyssey jr saddle is about 200g, give or take a few g.


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## gautama108 (Oct 6, 2010)

Waouoow,

Currently upgrading my 8 year old daugther's hotrock 20 with Trial rims and disk brake.
I know everybody keeps telling that disc brake are not necessary, but she has fun going DH and main complaint is about having pain in the hands...

Part of the fun will be to lace the rims together....
Picture to come soon


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## onetothepowerofn (Jan 24, 2005)

Look forward to seeing the build - I have been also looking at trial rims (and also the velocity aeroheats). Which rims did you end up going for?


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## jamerson9 (May 1, 2012)

gautama108 said:


> Waouoow,
> Currently upgrading my 8 year old daugther's hotrock 20 with Trial rims and disk brake.
> I know everybody keeps telling that disc brake are not necessary, but she has fun going DH and main complaint is about having pain in the hands...


My 6 year old's trail moan is "Oh no! Not another down hill". He's happy to walk his bike up steep hills.


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

gautama108 said:


> Waouoow,
> 
> Currently upgrading my 8 year old daugther's hotrock 20 with Trial rims and disk brake.
> I know everybody keeps telling that disc brake are not necessary, but she has fun going DH and main complaint is about having pain in the hands...
> ...


Be aware that some rear Trial rims are really 19" and not 20" ( even though they are listed as 20") so you would have to run a trail tire which are pretty thick sidewalls but super sticky. What rims did you go with?


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## sledz (Jun 27, 2012)

*older Marin hidden canyon pedal to ground cleareance*

wondering I have an older Marin. has BMX AC mini le cranks: 140mm... from the floor to the center of where the pedal will screw in is only about a clearance of 3 3/8 inches. checking some other bikes I think I need another inch at the minimum or my kid has an issue turning into the corner and banging the pedal, the tires are IRC siren sx and seem to have a lower profile... thinking of going with shorter cranks and higer profile 20x1.5 tire... any thoughts on what my minimum pedal to ground clearance should be?


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## Catfish65 (Jul 21, 2012)

Whats the total weight of bike now? Sorry if you all ready said. I was going to get kid same bike and build up. I saw scott rc bike is a little more but has upgrades on it. Did you ever look into any other bikes? Just curious before i buy. Thanks and awesome bike.


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

sledz said:


> wondering I have an older Marin. has BMX AC mini le cranks: 140mm... from the floor to the center of where the pedal will screw in is only about a clearance of 3 3/8 inches. checking some other bikes I think I need another inch at the minimum or my kid has an issue turning into the corner and banging the pedal, the tires are IRC siren sx and seem to have a lower profile... thinking of going with shorter cranks and higer profile 20x1.5 tire... any thoughts on what my minimum pedal to ground clearance should be?


My sons Hotrock is 3 1/2" to center of pedal hole with 135mm cranks and 2.1 tires. The Q factor is narrow in kids bikes and helps a bit with pedal contact. I was worried about it but no issues. If they are leaning far enough to dig a pedal they shouldn't be pedaling. But they do and he has but they learn fast  I think the positive effects of a super low BB is more of a benefit for youngsters than a bunch of pedal clearance.


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

Catfish65 said:


> Whats the total weight of bike now? Sorry if you all ready said. I was going to get kid same bike and build up. I saw scott rc bike is a little more but has upgrades on it. Did you ever look into any other bikes? Just curious before i buy. Thanks and awesome bike.


Bikes sits at 21.5lbs now with some big, thin, flat pedals. The pedals made a huge difference in his feet staying put in the rough stuff. Plus when the plastic ones got wet they were useless.

Ya I did look at a bunch of bikes first. This bike was originally the gray one in this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...ct-customized-marin-hidden-canyon-581791.html

For 2012 my family became ambasadors for Specialized so......we swapped out the frame. The Specialized is a bit longer in the top tube for room to grow, has the same low BB and even more stand over clearance. A win win in my book. No regreats on the swap.


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## Surfpoodi (Sep 14, 2011)

m-dub said:


> Bikes sits at 21.5lbs now with some big, thin, flat pedals. The pedals made a huge difference in his feet staying put in the rough stuff. Plus when the plastic ones got wet they were useless.
> 
> I chose it for its low bb and quality-ish fork of all the ones I put my hands on.
> 
> For 2012 my family became ambasadors for Specialized so......we swapped out the frame. The Specialized is a bit longer in the top tube for room to grow, has the same low BB and even more stand over clearance. A win win in my book. No regreats on the swap.


What pedals are you running? I'm looking at some cool looking HT stuff, but a bit nervous about the metal pedals shredding shins. But I've been a clip less pedal guy for 15 years, so any flat pedals frankly looks scary to me.

And I'll second the importance of BB height... Low BB is a big help for handling.


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

I was really nervous about the medal pins also but....they almost never slip compared to plastic. The pedals are a factory Rocky Mountian OEM that have the pedals molded into the platform and aren't nearly as vicious as most flats. My older son is on VP pedals with full pins and I ride Straitlines and with good shoes you just don't slip em like the old days. Having a flat ( very low profile) is the key to that. I get most my calf cuts from just standing around and bumping them on my leg.


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## Catfish65 (Jul 21, 2012)

I just got my boy the scott. What gave you the best weight savings for the buck? Im just getting into mtb and dont really know what cost what.


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

Good kevlar tires and light tubes reduce rotating mass and that will be the most noticeable.


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## Catfish65 (Jul 21, 2012)

m-dub said:


> Good kevlar tires and light tubes reduce rotating mass and that will be the most noticeable.


Thanks for info.


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## chrisjmcqueen (Oct 19, 2010)

Thats an awesome colour of green, don't think we can get it in UK tho


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