# Shimano Alfine 8 Speed Internal Hub



## gitzit (Sep 26, 2005)

It appears Shimano will only be releasing the new Alfine 8 speed internal hub in Europe this year. Does anyone know of any online shops in Europe that will ship to the US? I would very much like to try the internal geared hub thing without taking the Rohloff plunge. Thanks for your help.


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## steevo (Nov 17, 2004)

Really? The Alfine stuff isn't going to be available in the US in 2007? I'm waiting for the trigger shifter for my nexus 8 hub.


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## Soupboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Sweet. Is it designed to handle the torque loads of MTBing? That's been my only concern with the Nexus. Well, that and the lack of disc compatibility. 32h?


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## collideous (Jul 1, 2006)

Aussi très chic en noir!


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## Evel Knievel (Mar 28, 2004)

collideous said:


> Aussi très chic en noir!


 The chain tensioner looks good.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

That's a good looking groupo. (_Ewww... I said "gruppo"_)

I've ordered from outdoorGB in Germany and ChainReactionCycles in the UK.

Funny... SRAM is releasing their equally interesting i-motion 9-speed hub, and I understand that that, too, will only be available in Europe. ( https://www.sram-imotion.com ).

But just an FYI -- despite my misgivings about using anything _other than_ a Rohloff Speedhub for serious off-road duty, I spied this Shimano Nexus-equipped beauty atop the Kennedy Climb at last Thursday's annual Los Gatos Turkey Ride... and that climb can definitely be described as a grind!


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

We had a groupo of this set at work, the hub is disk compatiable also!! I will try and get some pics on mon or tue..


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## El Caballo (Nov 22, 2004)

If anyone has a European contact for ordering Alfine parts, let me know. Shipping is a killer, so putting together a group order might be smart.


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## 2:1 (Jan 27, 2004)

*disc-compatible, grind-compatible...*

... but off-road compatible? I'm guessing not... I'd love to hear otherwise, but I didn't think the Nexus hubs were burly enough for offroading, and I don't think the Alfine is much more than a red-band Inter-8 with a disc mount. I know that people on MTBR have put Inter-8s on their townie grocery-getters, but can anyone speak to Nexus-based Trans-Rockies assaults, wheelie-drops, etc?


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

I believe that there are a few mtbr members doing long-term offroad testing on the Nexus hub.

I havn't had any updates for a while though, so I don't know how they are going.


R.


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## C.P. (Sep 17, 2005)

I'd say not too...A couple winters ago I laced a Nexus 7 to a rhynoLight, and threw it on a Stumpjumper.
It was taken into the woods for roughly 3 months, which it barely survived. Drops, yes...Some big XC mileage - Yes...(although it sucked with all the weight)...some aweful sounding noises coming from said hub...YES
Previously, the hub spent it's life as a commuter bike app, which is where it should have stayed.
1st. The thing weighs a ton.
2nd It's a PITA to change a flat (even though I ran DH tires, and didn't have this issue)
3rd, and most important to note, the hub put out an all out protest in steep climbs...basically, it would make aweful "pinging" sounds, and even skip a little. And yes, it was adjusted correctly...just from this experience alone, I'd be willing to bet the Alphine is designed to be similar, and cant take the beating...said hub has permanent damage, since I've changed the oil, and made basic bearing adjustments...it still works, but there's those crunchy sounds coming from it that I think are permanent. I did follow rec. lowest gear ratio also...so it didn't get mis applied (if that makes any sense)....sorry for the rambling....


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## arkadi (Apr 11, 2006)

*I'm in germany*



El Caballo said:


> If anyone has a European contact for ordering Alfine parts, let me know. Shipping is a killer, so putting together a group order might be smart.


And ya'll can start sending me checks if you want......

Seriously though, I've been talking to my lbs about this very thing. He has high hopes for the alfine and SRAM I9 as off-road capable hubs. The only downside is that neither of the new offerings have improved in the manner they are serviced. Rohloff has everyone beat there.

The I9 is specced on bikes that cost about 500 euros, so it can't be too expensive. I'll probably be trying one out next year.


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## steevo (Nov 17, 2004)

The Red Stripe version is supposedly more up to the task of offroad riding than previous versions. Here's a link to a discussion in the drivetrain forum:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=203634&highlight=nexus

There are a couple people who sound like they really hammered on them and they seem to be holding up fine. I put mine on my karate monkey for a few rides and it worked fine and I wasn't being nice to it. That was only about 3 rides though. Now it's now back on my commuter which I also use for trails occassionally, but I wouldn't make claims on it's durability based on that. It is heavy, and shifting between 4 and 5 seems to be tricky sometimes. I'm hoping that will be fixed with the trigger shifter, if I can ever get my hands on one.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

arkadi said:


> The I9 is specced on bikes that cost about 500 euros, so it can't be too expensive. I'll probably be trying one out next year.


What is the availability like on those I9s? I want that or a NuVinci for my street bike (to replace a Nexus), and the NuVinci looks both expensive and unavailable.


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## arkadi (Apr 11, 2006)

*THe I9 will be available*



Speedub.Nate said:


> What is the availability like on those I9s? I want that or a NuVinci for my street bike (to replace a Nexus), and the NuVinci looks both expensive and unavailable.


next spring. Disk brake options too. And trigger shifters. My LBS guys saw both the Nexus redline and the I9 at eurobike, and said they where pretty indistinguishable in performance.

I really like the concept of the nuvinci, but it's been floating around for a couple of years as a concept, without really appearing anywhere in actual use.


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## ulcerpentacidis (Sep 27, 2006)

any word on this alfine group buy?

i've been searching various european ebays, and haven't really had any luck.

nor have i seen them forsale online anywhere.

i really want the rapidfire for my current inter8, and the alfine and shifter for my dual sus.


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

If available from Shimano Europe already I may be able to help you guys out.

Please let me know what part numbers you want and I will check availability.

Email might be more convenient: JJ at singlespeed dot nl

JJ


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

They are available, only in Silver for now. 
I will get one and get back here with price info.

JJ


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## El Caballo (Nov 22, 2004)

SL-S500 Rapidfire Plus Shifter for Inter-8
http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/catalog...<>ast_id=1408474395181667&bmUID=1167941678549

This is the shifter for both Alfine and Nexus 8 hubs.


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

Yesterday was my irst off road trip with the new Shimano Alfine hub, mounted to my Niner Sir9, which provides the perfect platform for the hub, as the EBB solves the chain tension problem.

On the Niner you are able to run only the inner cable from the cable stop at the headtube till the hub, so no unnecessary friction.

For the record, this is no racing hub, IMHO. The engagement is not on par with a cassette/freewheel wheel, after coasting it takes some time fo the hub to engage, which is no problem, as long as you have no problems with that.

We did a 50 km trip on fairly flat terrain, so shifting was mainly between 4, 5 and 6 and some lower and higher shifts on the small climbs and some descends.

As there was quite some singletrack I shifted between 4, 5 and 6 frequently. During the trip I had to readjust the cable some times, as it was the first ride after mounting it on the bike and the cable had to set a little.

Shifting is quick, but you have to get used to taking of power of the pedals, as this hub is not made to shift under power, but that is the case with most hubs out there.

Great thing is you can shift while coasting, which is great after bad anticipating a sharp turn; shifting in the corner and have the right,lower gear to handle a climb, hole, etc.

Problem with the Nexus hub has sometimes be the interface between hub abd cog, and as this is not changed for the Alfine time will show how it holds up.

The good and the bad:

+ Clean looks and function
+ great shifter cable routing 
+ Centerlock Disc mount (personal)
+ Great shifter, although the feel is a little 'indirect'
+ easy setup
- weight compared to rear der/cassete setup (?)
- harder to service in the field (more tools needed when cables looses up)

It is hard to say anything on durability, time will tell.

For me it is a keeper for now. Will try to make some more miles on it so I will see how it holds up.

Some pics:




































JJ


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

Update on availability:

It seems the set I got was the only set available at Shimano Europe at that time.
The estimated arrival time for a new shipment Alfine is March 25.

JJ


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

Got at weight on that hub setup?

And, how the heck do I get one of those cranks?


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## MetalHealth (Feb 9, 2007)

*Mongoose Sabrosa*

Anyone seen this commuter from Mongoose? The US version is pretty sweet looking in matte black, but the UK version has the Alfine gruppo on it. They always get the cool stuff in Europe first! Unfortunately, the UK Sabrosa is kinda ugly IMHO. I'd love to get my hands on the matte black frame with the black Alfine stuff on it tho!


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## eric_syd (Nov 10, 2005)

Any information regarding availability ?
Does someone have an address of a lbs or online shop that stocks the Alfine hub and shifters. Here in Sydney, one shop has a home-brand hybrid bike with the non-disc version for US$800. Do I have to buy the complete bike just to get the hub ?


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

I got an update from Shimano Europe today.

The hub will arrive end of this month (Expected Arrival Date is 25-5-2007).
The shifter is available now. the 18t Cog is also available.

As for the prices (estimations):

Hub in silver: 220 Euro
Shifter: 33 Euro
Cog: 7 Euro

JJ


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## eric_syd (Nov 10, 2005)

sorry if already published but I could not find the gear ratios (only found the Nexus ones on Shimano site!!!).
JJT, You seem to have a Boone 32 ring, what ratios did this give with the 18T cog?


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

The gear ratio is the same as the Nexus hubs:

Total:307%
1:0.527
2:0.644
3:0.748
4:0.851
5:1.000
6:1.223
7:1.419
8:1.615

On my Niner I have 36:18 with the Afline.

The first hubs are getting here as we speak..

JJ


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## dyg2001 (Jul 31, 2004)

What is the difference between the Alfine and Nexus 8 "Red Band" rear hub? Thanks.


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## El Caballo (Nov 22, 2004)

dyg2001 said:


> What is the difference between the Alfine and Nexus 8 "Red Band" rear hub? Thanks.


The Alfine has an integrated Centerlock disc and mount, and a funky little chainguide thing for the rear sprocket. I believe the internals are identical.

Effectively the difference is that you can't run a disc on a Red Band without an expensive adapter from cesur.de.


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## dyg2001 (Jul 31, 2004)

El Caballo said:


> The Alfine has an integrated Centerlock disc and mount, and a funky little chainguide thing for the rear sprocket. I believe the internals are identical.
> 
> Effectively the difference is that you can't run a disc on a Red Band without an expensive adapter from cesur.de.


Thanks for the info.

I assume you can still use the hub with rim brakes--just don't mount the rotor, correct?

When will these parts be available in the USA? Do any European shops have them in stock? I am having a custom mixte city bike built for my wife and would like to use the Alfine trigger shifter with a Nexus "Red Band" or Alfine rear hub.

Thanks,

David


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

dyg2001 said:


> Do any European shops have them in stock?


They should have from now on.

JJ


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## Intense5point5 (Jan 25, 2007)

Thats why no one's heard of Alfine! I live up in the states (Massachusetts to be exact.) And was down in West Newton at Harris Cyclery in early May this year. They have a bike with the full Alfine group including the hub and Hydraulic brakes. It looks great and is a good deal too. I can't remember the name of the bike but it was a high end lugged steel frame with excellent craftsmanship. $2200 and a doubt it has sold yet! http://www.harriscyclery.com


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## Daner (Apr 30, 2004)

I've got some mileage in on a Soma Juice built up as a commuter with an early prototype Alfine gruppo. The hub that I got had at least one performance issue out of the box that has not appeared on subsequent prototypes or production models, but even ignoring that, I can say that the engagement issue alone excludes the Nexus/Alfine family from consideration for those interested in technical off-road riding.

I've got a couple of photos of the bike up at http://homepage.mac.com/drt/NAFlyers/PhotoAlbum117.html and will be adding updated photos, including a second Juice that was built with a Rohloff Speedhub, SON front hub, fenders, kickstand and light.

My personal and demo bikes have everything from 1990 Deore DX rear hubs to a 108 points-of-engagement Hadley, and I'll soon have a 120 p.o.e. Industry Nine SS hub to add to the mix, but just to make it clear I spend plenty of quality riding time on 24 and 36 poe hubs. I recognize and appreciate quicker engagement, but am not bound to it. That having been established, the clutches on the Alfine (and I am assuming also with the Nexus) engage with more delay than a standard 24 poe Shimano hub. Setting up pedal kicks for wheelie drops, front wheel lifts and other such riding is further disturbed because the engagement is not only slower, it is less consistant in feel - sometimes engaging immediately with full power and at other times ramping into full engagement. That aspect may be due to the prototype status of the hub that I have most time on, but it matches the experience of others, so I doubt it.

With respect to the rest of the groupset, the cranks are pretty but heavy, and the bearings seem to be similar to other external Shimano units when it comes to quality and reliability. I will be replacing them with Phil Wood bearings in the weeks to come. The brakes are not as powerful as previous generation XT or XTR models, despite their long levers. Probably appropriate for their intended market, but I'll be mixing and matching on any future production bikes rather than going with the full groupset.

Shimano now offers a complete wheelset with straight-pull spokes alongside the hubsets with standard J-bend spokes. The rims are fairly narrow and the package is optimized for city-bike use. Once again, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them for their intended use, but anybody who claims that Alfine is truly desireable for off-road use is either: A) only talking about gravel road touring, B) has no experience on them, or C) just doesn't know what they are talking about.


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## GlowBoy (Jan 3, 2004)

Daner: thanks for the detailed report. The engagement issue is certainly a disappointment. I had higher hopes, especially since I've been quite pleased with the engagement of my SRAM DualDrive Disc hub.


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## El Caballo (Nov 22, 2004)

Daner said:


> anybody who claims that Alfine is truly desireable for off-road use is either: A) only talking about gravel road touring, B) has no experience on them, or C) just doesn't know what they are talking about.


I guess I haven't ridden enough expensive hubs to puncture my protective shell of blissful ignorance.


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## steevo (Nov 17, 2004)

I have the nexus red band hub. I believe the internals of the red band nexus and the alfine hub are the same. At least that's what i've read. 
Durability wise, i think they can hold up to quite a bit of off-road abuse. But performance wise, they do leave something to be desired. And not so much with the slower engagement. The issue i had was with shifting. It just wasn't precise or fast enough. Coming up fast on a hill and downshifting for the climb usually meant a few pedal revolutions for the the gear to actually drop. That was annoying because I would already be into the climb and then CLUNK! it would shift down. I blame the lousy twist shifter that comes with the nexus hub. I've read that the alfine trigger shifter might be an improvement, but I'm skeptical, and the trigger won't be available in the states anytime this year.


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## Daner (Apr 30, 2004)

That's why I was clear to point out that my observation was not that the engagement is disappointing when compared to a 72 poe White Eno Trials freewheel. My complaint is that the engagement is disappointing when compared to the 1990 Deore DX rear hub that I have on my winter commuter bike.

I appreciate fine champagne, but I also enjoy a good glass of chocolate milk. That doesn't mean that I can't tell the difference between Nestlé's Quick and Ovaltine.

It's not a matter of relative ignorance or snobbery, it is a matter of taste in tools to meet the demands of riding a rigid bike on very rooty and rocky technical trails. The engagemetnt issue might make a little less difference if we were talking about a full cush all-mountain sit and spin bike and/or faster, smoother, more forgiving terrain.



El Caballo said:


> I guess I haven't ridden enough expensive hubs to puncture my protective shell of blissful ignorance.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

I've been riding the Nexus red-band hub for a few years off-road, and it has been fine, a lot nicer than the old 7-speed nexus (which lasted ~4 months before expiring), and not nearly as nice as the Rohloff, but then it's 1/6th the price.



Daner said:


> ... I recognize and appreciate quicker engagement, but am not bound to it. That having been established, the clutches on the Alfine (and I am assuming also with the Nexus) engage with more delay than a standard 24 poe Shimano hub....


Shimano freehubs only have 16 poe. The odd engagement in step-up gears is normal for planetary gear system hubs, the clutches often engage the lower (or lowest) gear before catching up to the final gear - Rohloffs do this too, but it is less evident when you have a higher primary ratio. If you have ever tried to ratched up a skinny with the Rohloff in the wrong gear (5th I think - I don't keep track of which gear I'm in these days, which is one of the advantages of the Rohloff), you simple can't get the ratched to advance, there is so much play. You have to switch to another gear. The SRAM DualDrive does this to when in the 3rd gear. Like most things, you get use to it, and it certainly does not stop me from doing drops or step up ledges, or popping wheelies or manuals, or any technical rocky rooty section.



Daner said:


> ... Once again, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them for their intended use, but anybody who claims that Alfine is truly desireable for off-road use is either: A) only talking about gravel road touring, B) has no experience on them, or C) just doesn't know what they are talking about.


Since I don't tour on gravel roads, and I've been riding geared hubs for way longer than I want to admit.... I must not know what I'm talking about.... 

Really though, the Alfine / red-bad hubs have _NOT_ been certified for off-road use, despite the number of people who have used them mtb-ing. But then there were no off-road components when I started riding my bike on trails either. Geared hub are different, and have their disadvantages as well as their advantages. All I know is, I have divested myself of all bikes that have derailleurs. FYI I'm primarily SS and Fixie off-road these days, although we like our Rohloff's, and I'll always be trying out any new geared hubs (Nexus/Alfine, SRAM, and in the future, I9, NuVinci, etc...)


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## Daner (Apr 30, 2004)

Maybe I just haven't had enough time to get used to dealing automatically with the change in response that up to 22.5 degrees of delay in engagement and inconsistent response feel cause as compared to most of my other SS and geared hubs, which have half of that delay or less, with a consistant feel.

It is of course by no means something that cannot be overcome with sufficient practice, but faced with today's current set of tradeoffs I would rather keep looking. I don't have enough time on a well-sorted Speedhub to make a valid judgement, but if the SRAM or NuVinci units feel better than the Alfine/Red Band Nexus units they might eventually end up being a better choice for technical riding.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Daner said:


> Maybe I just haven't had enough time to get used to dealing automatically with the change in response that up to 22.5 degrees of delay in engagement...
> 
> ... I don't have enough time on a well-sorted Speedhub to make a valid judgement, but if the SRAM or NuVinci units feel better than the Alfine/Red Band Nexus units they might eventually end up being a better choice for technical riding.


The odd clutch engagement issues only happen on some "step-up" gears, they generally don't occur on the reduction gears. Depending on your chainring/cog ratio, this may or may not be an issue with practical riding. The hub actually engages within ~10deg - to the lowest gear, but then it goes though another 10 deg before it engages the higher gear that was selected. It's _very_ annoying when you are trying to track stand, but I look at it as another challenge.

SRAM will probably not be any different, planetary geared hubs share this type of clutch system (although it is possible to minimize or eliminate it, as Rohloff has done on most of their gears). The NuVinci dose not have this problem, but there are others issues (like transmission loss) that will be an issue.

Keep in mind that the predecessor to the Alfine/red-band Nexus hubs all died a rapid death on trails (not even rocky technical ones). This is the first geared hub Shimano has made that has been able to survive more than a year on trails, and that is the only reason people are calling it trail worthy - some people have still killed it withing a year, but that was using it on drops as a FR hub. But Shimano has improved them quite a bit - the engagement issue is far worse on thier old 7-s hub, as was the pause in down shifting (it's not really a pause, but due to the pawls design, the clutch will not disengage until you remove pressure from the drivetrain). They get better ever few years, so one can hope.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

GlowBoy said:


> Daner: thanks for the detailed report. The engagement issue is certainly a disappointment. I had higher hopes, especially since I've been quite pleased with the engagement of my SRAM DualDrive Disc hub.


I am curious about the SRAM i-MOTION 9.

Disc brake version in the works


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

shiggy said:


> I am curious about the SRAM i-MOTION 9.
> 
> Disc brake version in the works


It comes with a kick-back brake, who needs a disc? 
There will also be an I-Brake, which is not the disc one, hmmm.
Seems the 9spd just offers one longer gear, otherwise same gearing.


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

Daner said:


> it is a matter of taste in tools to meet the demands of riding a rigid bike on very rooty and rocky technical trails.


That is exactly the point. I think for off road touring the Alfine hub is a great thing, for more demanding terrain like you describe here and racing the hub does not meet the demand of quick engagement (like it is available in every normal geared cassette hub)

And in my opinion the new trigeer is a big improvement over the nexus twister, although I never rode that shifter off road.

JJ


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## GlowBoy (Jan 3, 2004)

shiggy said:


> I am curious about the SRAM i-MOTION 9.
> 
> Disc brake version in the works


Me too -- if and when we really get the disc version. And if we can get a shifter without the integrated brake lever and bell. Any updates on price or availability?


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## dwoloz (Oct 22, 2006)

So when can I actually buy this elusive hub?


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## ulcerpentacidis (Sep 27, 2006)

regarding the red band, both of mine are still rocking supreme. i'm well into the second season on my off road setup, ad still no issues. a friend cleaned up my cassette joint and bearing around february, and noted it all looked to be in good shape despite the frequent salty minnesota street rides i'd been doing. so far this summer its taken its fair share of trail rides as well. i still stand behind my opinion that this hub rocks in any terrain, whether it be beatin rough and technical singletrak, street/ramp/dirt jumping, or haulin a load with my bob trailer. its worth mentioning there are some engagment issues with mine, but after spending a lot time on a bmx freecoaster hub it seems pretty negligable. it does take a small amount of foresight for wheelie drops and bich cranks, but it is easy to adjust for them.

(edited to skirt the expletive censorship)


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## ulcerpentacidis (Sep 27, 2006)

also, im still really hoping to get an alfine setup, and a couple of trigger shifters to replace my current twist shift setups on the nexus'. my modified setup on the mtb is really starting to degrade, (fyi i cut 75% or so of the twistshift's gripping area off) often coming apart on me if the hand grip slides outward on the bar. when its fit together all snug like, gripping the raised inner flange for shifting is great, and allows one to keep his entire mit on the hand grip rather than only partially. brake lever reach is much better this way too..


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## TCPhilly (Jul 13, 2007)

*Alfine Humu*

Built this bike with an Alfine rear hub and trigger shifter as a gift for my girlfriend. I got the hub and shifter from JJ on this forum, who shipped it fast from Holland. LBS built the wheels for me. Except for the wheelset and the On One Mary handlebar, almost everything is stock from a 2005 Kona Humu Humu Deluxe. The best part is that her nickname actually *is* Humu, and it's right there on the top tube . I'm pretty happy with the results. I hope the Alfine will last for a while, since this will just be a commuter/all-rounder which will not see much off-road use.


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## MetalHealth (Feb 9, 2007)

*Nice!!!*

That is one sweet looking ride! Congrats. I'd love to get my hands on one of those trigger shifters. What do they cost?


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## TCPhilly (Jul 13, 2007)

*SL-s500 Alfine trigger shifter price*

Thanks. I could only find a price at one shop in Holland, where I got the part, but from there it would cost between $30 and $40, depending on the euro to dollar exchange rate. Here's a link:

http://www.singlespeed.nl/catalog/index.php?cPath=60&osCsid=081ab6d457540d9d2d7a0cfb45f4e335


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## BillyMTB (Mar 7, 2007)

*Nexus*



Rainman said:


> I believe that there are a few mtbr members doing long-term offroad testing on the Nexus hub.
> 
> I havn't had any updates for a while though, so I don't know how they are going.
> 
> R.


I rode a Nexus for a couple of years mostly on the road. Not a serious piece of equipment, very inefficient compared to a conventional setup, heavy, heavy and it takes ages to change a rear tyre, not recommended for MTB :nono:

I can't comment on Rohloff stuff which seems better but is much pricier. The Nexus requires very regular servicing otherwise it will fail and need to be replaced.

I think that these styles of hubs are suited to commuters and weekend cruising not good for any heavy use.
b.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

News of Rohloff's upcoming Speedhub Lite (now _Speedhub 09_) here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=341260


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## arnijr (Jun 21, 2007)

So, it's snowing. It's also my first year as a year round bicycle commuter. Lots of things to learn. Like, full length cable housing would be good because snow freezes on the exposed wires on the top tube, not good for shifting. What I'd really like to do is get one of those Alfine hubs though. I think for the slush and dirt they would be great. The question I have, probably because I'm too dumb to figure out the gear ratios properly, is, will it have the range I need? Currently I have an old 7spd megarange on the back, 11-34 I think, but the next lowest is something like 24. Up front I have 22-32-44. Out of those gears, I use everything from 32/34 to 44/11, although I could live with a lower gear slightly higher than 32/34. Keep in mind that this is an all year commuter, 26", in winter I have to deal with snow and high winds on top of the hills I have year round. I'd love to put the Alfine in the rear and ditch the front deraileur for the Alfine crankset. Do you think this will work? Is the range wide enough?
Some of the things I've learned commuting:
The megarange is annoying because the gap between 1st and 2nd is way too big. The full housing cable run is really important since the bike gets stored outside while I work. My plan of leaving the u-lock locked to the bike rack is running into some difficulties as it's freezing solid. 160 studs (Nokian) are good but I feel that 240 would be better up front. Layering is the only way, start out feeling cold, you'll get warmer.


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## ulcerpentacidis (Sep 27, 2006)

i'm not exactly sure what the numbers are, but i can tell you that the range is pretty decent on my nexus 8. (same as an alfine i believe) i run a 2/1 ratio on both my 700c and 26" bikes, and while top gear isn't the tallest, it is still mega fast on the flat and downhill. the low ends up being really low, plenty enough on the 26" for granny gear climbs. hope that helps..


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## jdrds17 (May 8, 2006)

The long answer: Go here- http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/index.html and then here- http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/internal.html. Put in your current and hypothetical data and compare (he even has your 'megarange' as one of the stock cassettes to pick from).

The short answer: No


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## arnijr (Jun 21, 2007)

Ok, so I did the math. With a 45T chainring and an 18T cog, the 8spd Nexus will have a slightly higher top gear than my current setup (22/32/44 and 11-34 7spd megarange). It will not go quite as low as the lowest middle ring gear (32/34) but a bit lower than the second lower gear. With that chainring/cog combo it will not touch the usable gears on the granny chainring, but I don't use that for commuting anyway. I actually feel that I would be able to live without the lowest middle ring gear. So actually I feel that the Nexus would be usable for my year round commuter.
Now for the Alfine, the Shimano website doesn't list the gear ratios but according to Harris Cyclery's website, the ratios are the same as the Nexus 8spd. For the $230 price it will have to wait just a bit, but certainly outfitting the commuter with the hub and crankset seems quite viable. If the 45/18 doesn't work out, there's always the 45/20. Might even make sense to run the 45/18 in summer and 45/20 in winter. There are more (and bigger) cogs available, but not in the nice enclosed version it seems.
Anyone see any problems with that plan?


----------



## arnijr (Jun 21, 2007)

Oh, the only thing is that the nice Alfine crankset only comes in 170mm. I've only ever ridden mtb's with 175mm cranksets. Is this going to ruin my day?


----------



## Go Kart Motzart (Jan 2, 2004)

arnijr said:


> Oh, the only thing is that the nice Alfine crankset only comes in 170mm. I've only ever ridden mtb's with 175mm cranksets. Is this going to ruin my day?


You wouldn't need to use the Alfine crankset. Just stick with whatever old crank you have.

This new breed of internal geared hubs are really interesting. Anyone know what the deal is with Sram's 9 speed disc compatible hub? It is supposed to have a much wider range than what Shimano offers, but I've yet to see one listed anywhere.


----------



## arnijr (Jun 21, 2007)

Yeah, I know I don't need to run the Alfine cranks, but I need to do something up front to keep the chain from jumping the ring. I could simply adjust the limit screws on the der. or get some other sort of chain management solution, but the Alfine crankset with the chainguard on both sides just seems like a good solution. Running the triple cranks up front with the der. fixed is really the least elegant solution to the problem.


----------



## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Hi fella`s have you seen this?

https://www.chargebikes.com/features/muddy/one/

https://chargebikes.typepad.com/news/2007/10/alfine-duster-p.html










I`m going to try it out on my sir 9. Must be worth a try.


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

I want one of those hubs...:thumbsup:


R.


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

I just orderd one.


----------



## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

fux said:


> I just orderd one.


From???

R.


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

My Lbs. Should be here in 4 weeks. 

I`m in europe  Apperently the new black hub is designed for shifts under power.


----------



## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

fux said:


> My Lbs. Should be here in 4 weeks.
> 
> I`m in europe  Apperently the new black hub is designed for shifts under power.


Sounds like just what I need for my mud bike.

I have been unable to get my hands on one of these new ones because of my location in AU.

Does your LBS ship overseas?

R.


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## jeremyuk (Jan 9, 2008)

Genesis are selling pretty much the same thing with a Recon fork for £900, course you'd have to double that for $
Nobody is doing it with a 29er but 29ers are still a very small niche in Britain and almost non existant in the rest of Europe. 
Surprisng 'cause the germans and dutch are big people.


----------



## juscruzin (Nov 22, 2007)

I put one of these on my XXIXer a couple of weeks ago as a bit of an experiment before going to a Rohlhof and so far it has performed well.
The changes are super slick, even under a bit of load. Running a 32 x 18 gives a similar range to a 1 x 9.
I have not really given it a hard off road ride yet, as I feel it needs to be run in a bit.


----------



## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

I dont know why, but 29`ers have a bit of a following in Norway.

http://terrengsykkel.no/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=367433&page=1#Post367433

Although I would say the size of the rider has nothing to do with the size of the wheels, but thats another debate....

I would say Brits (Im one myself in exile) dont like change. From what I can remeber of the stuff I rode in the uk, 29`ers are the right tool for the job.

Rainman, I know "Kloxxki" sells em.

http://www.singlespeed.nl/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60&products_id=184


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## AllRounder (Feb 26, 2004)

fux said:


> My Lbs. Should be here in 4 weeks.
> 
> I`m in europe  Apperently the new black hub is designed for shifts under power.


Is this the one?


----------



## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

> Is this the one?


Yup. I should have it in house the first week in March. :thumbsup:


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## jeremyuk (Jan 9, 2008)

Funny that, Singular expressly don't bother making a frame size for less than 5' 7" since Sam regards that as the lower size limit


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## WillitsBrand.com (Jan 15, 2006)

Bwonk. My wife loves hers.


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## ulcerpentacidis (Sep 27, 2006)

so has anyone gotten one of these from harris cyclery?

apparently they have them in stock..


----------



## eric_syd (Nov 10, 2005)

*Cell Bike has them as complet bike*



Rainman said:


> Sounds like just what I need for my mud bike.
> 
> I have been unable to get my hands on one of these new ones because of my location in AU.
> 
> R.


Rainman, I have bought a complete Cell Bike 101 off eBay for less than Au$500, almost the same price as the hub+ shifter in Europe at that time.
in 2008, Cell Bikes (I don't work for them, I visited the shop only once!!!) sells the complete bike for Au$750. My plan was to take the wheel out, re-build the bike with a gear hub (last year's frame had a hanger) and re-sell it. It happened that it is the most convenient bike for the baby seat, so I keep it for a while. But up to you to get an Alfine quickly.
Eric


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

eric_syd said:


> Rainman, I have bought a complete Cell Bike 101 off eBay for less than Au$500, almost the same price as the hub+ shifter in Europe at that time.
> in 2008, Cell Bikes (I don't work for them, I visited the shop only once!!!) sells the complete bike for Au$750. My plan was to take the wheel out, re-build the bike with a gear hub (last year's frame had a hanger) and re-sell it. It happened that it is the most convenient bike for the baby seat, so I keep it for a while. But up to you to get an Alfine quickly.
> Eric


Interesting.... thanks eric..

R.


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## AllRounder (Feb 26, 2004)

WillitsBrand.com said:


> Bwonk. My wife loves hers.


Is that a Willits mixte?!? That is the coolest wife-bike I've ever seen! Any chance my wife could test ride one next time we are in Austin?

- AR


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## bcd (Jan 27, 2004)

Rainman said:


> Interesting.... thanks eric..
> 
> R.


if you have any contacts in canada, www.cycleslambert.com should have some soon.

fig i will sell off the bike with ss disc wheel to recoup some.


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## WillitsBrand.com (Jan 15, 2006)

Yes! And I agree. Here's a few more.

I'm just really pleased with the whole Alfine group.



AllRounder said:


> Is that a Willits mixte?!? That is the coolest wife-bike I've ever seen! Any chance my wife could test ride one next time we are in Austin?
> 
> - AR


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## bigsurf75 (Mar 16, 2007)

Where can the hub be purchased?


----------



## scruffylooking (Sep 15, 2005)

$230 for just the hub. $35 for the shifter, cable, and housing.


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## kix12 (Jul 29, 2006)

*genesis io id*

i have been using this bike for a week now and have had no problems what so ever. Feels solid and the hub performs well on technical trails. It is a robust hub which i feel can take much more abuse. No play has developed nor clanking noise yet while shifting under pressure. My bike setup weighs 28.5lbs (stock).
I'm one happy customer and would recommend this to anyone who would like to try internal gears for the first time. You will not be disappointed (only in my humble opinion).


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## jeremyuk (Jan 9, 2008)

Where's that then, Scotland or Wales?


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## kix12 (Jul 29, 2006)

South Wales:thumbsup:


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## marty_hd (Oct 26, 2005)

kix12 said:


> i have been using this bike for a week now and have had no problems what so ever. Feels solid and the hub performs well on technical trails. It is a robust hub which i feel can take much more abuse. No play has developed nor clanking noise yet while shifting under pressure. My bike setup weighs 28.5lbs (stock).
> I'm one happy customer and would recommend this to anyone who would like to try internal gears for the first time. You will not be disappointed (only in my humble opinion).


Hi,
Are you running the original grease that came with the hub?
I read somewhere (wish I had the reference, it was on some site called something like hubstripping) that replacing the stock grease makes the hub smoother and even more efficient. Also that replacing the grease gets rid of the metal filings that develop as the hub runs in.

Also, does anybody have the dimensions on the Alfine hub for wheel building purposes?

Have fun on that ride,
Marty


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## DirtyJ (Oct 23, 2007)

bump- cause I really like that bike and don't want to run thru all the other posts to find this thread


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Ok,

Basicly I am just waiting for my new Mavic tn719 rims which " should " be with my builder next week.... At the mo my project looks like this.





































Props to the folks @ Aspire velotech










This message in the bottom of the box sums it all up for me..










I`ll give you an update as soon as its on it wheels. CANT WAIT!!


----------



## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

The guys at Aspire are good blokes... :thumbsup:


Post up pics...lotsa pics.



R.


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Waiting for the wheels is AGONY!!

Here are a couple of bad mobile pics..


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Ok, I did say a couple of pics..


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

Yum...I like those red chain ring bolts.. :thumbsup:


R.


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## Monkeybike (Feb 25, 2008)

finally got the alfine on the bike

I was using an sturmey archer with grip shift before .... I really think that this alfine with trigger shifter will performe much better.

I will try to give a spin tomorow (proper dh) although I biked to work to today and it feels sweet.


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Argghh!

I am stil waiting for my rims.

:madman:


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## robkhoo (Jun 28, 2005)

kix12 said:


> i have been using this bike for a week now and have had no problems what so ever. Feels solid and the hub performs well on technical trails. It is a robust hub which i feel can take much more abuse. No play has developed nor clanking noise yet while shifting under pressure. My bike setup weighs 28.5lbs (stock).
> I'm one happy customer and would recommend this to anyone who would like to try internal gears for the first time. You will not be disappointed (only in my humble opinion).


I saw one of those (might even have been that one) the other day, and it looked really lovely. Pictures don't do the metallic orange finish justice.


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## wayneosdias (Mar 24, 2004)

Just got the Alfine rear hub on my new commuter bike, cant believe how fast, smooth and quite it engages gears. Blows xt away IMO.

Putting a rear rack on the bike I need to pull the rear wheel only to find no quick way to detach the cable. Anybody have a trick for this, like if you need to do a tire repair on the road?

wayne


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

So it's been about a year since folks started running the Alfine pretty regularly. Has anybody run both the Alfine and red-stripe hub? Any real noticeable differences in shifting or long-time longevity?


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Any tips on how I should route the cable on this baby will be greatly recieved.

I`m not too sure I fancy the ziptie the cable to the frame and like the look of the sir9.

Has he bypassed the cable holder arm thingy completley??

I`m stood in the garage scratching my head.


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## Duzitall (Feb 4, 2004)

fux,

Your bike is going to be beautiful :thumbsup: (and I wanted to subscribe to this thread  )


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Thanks to JJT for answering some pm`s last night,

Its finaly finished apart from the front wheel. I borrowed one last night so I`m ready to roll.










I have had a little test on it and the shifting up is like lightning and soundless. This is the closest you can get to a singlespeed with gears!

Utilising a gore ride-on cable, its all sealed but looks better than zip tie`s and full outers.










Set up was easy. The largest problem I found was that Juicies and Alfine dont like each other! If you thinking of building similar, go for shimano brake levers. I had to fit the triggers on the outside of the brakes, which means that I have to move my hand position to gear after braking or utilise my middle finger to brake to get my thumb near the shifter.










I had a short test ride last night on the road and I think I will adapt rather than change it. This wouldn`t work if I planned on using a riser.

Oh, how does it perform?

Smooth ! Very smooth, very quiet too. I did a few stop and starts to see if I could feel the slow engagement and yes its noticeble. This will be its achilles heel in the trails but I have never owned Hadley or king so I wont notice it as much as those that are picky in this area. I will tell you how it does on my ride today.

I`m certainly not concerned about the quality or streagth. The wheel feels realy solid laced up to the mavic TN719. Its heavy but built on a pretty light bike it doesnt feel like a slouch to pedal.

Right, I`m off out!

To be continued.....


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Ok. some daytime pictures before I set off....




























:thumbsup:

Should look even better with my front wheel (silver king/mavictn719)


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

Does anyone have any new reports of how these hold up to off-road use?


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Ive seen a few tests and looks like it does realy well out on the trial as long as you can live with slow engagement when you stop and start.

I was out today and the pros outweigh this con.

I shifts like grease lighting. I`m pleased so far but I want to give it 1000 km before I publish a propper test analasys.


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

I dunno why but I can`t feel the slow engagement out in the trails.

There is no direct drive gear so it feels like you have a pulley system for gears. Its a bit unusual, not a niggle or problem. Another negative I have read is the ratio jump. I love it because I (you lot too! just admit it.) hardley ever chage one gear at a time. I always seemed to up 2-3 or down the whole rear cog.

Through slow tecky stuff I can shift gears without having to think about what my legs are doing. I just shift, freewheeling or not.










I`m pretty much sold on the perfect, almost silent shifting of the Alfine. Its going to be fun to see how long it holds.

My standpoint at the moment is that i`m glad I went for it !


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## Soupboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Fantastic. Who's running one stateside on a full susser?


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## wayneosdias (Mar 24, 2004)

Ya I dont get the slow engagement complaint, Its immediate on my bike. Running conventional derailers you need at least a quater pedal stroke anyway. 

The alfine peforms soooo nice and for $250 you have a complete integrated drivetrain is brilliant.

Mind you this is a commuter bike Im using it on.


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

this kind of stuff looks promising
maybe with a triple up front huh?

possibly good on The Big Dummy

d-


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## ulcerpentacidis (Sep 27, 2006)

just got back from CO and UT, and it seems that my alfine has held out so far after a 8 days of trail pounding. i got it laced to a mavic dh rim with a 39/19t setup on my cove g spot. i got near perfect chain tension with a half link, so it looks really clean too. my only concern is granny climbs in the lowest gear, as it seems that my leg strength might be enough to over torque the hub.


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## Soupboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Pix of set up please!:thumbsup:



ulcerpentacidis said:


> just got back from CO and UT, and it seems that my alfine has held out so far after a 8 days of trail pounding. i got it laced to a mavic dh rim with a 39/19t setup on my cove g spot. i got near perfect chain tension with a half link, so it looks really clean too. my only concern is granny climbs in the lowest gear, as it seems that my leg strength might be enough to over torque the hub.


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## ulcerpentacidis (Sep 27, 2006)

will do tonite!

also, you're on morcforum right?


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## Soupboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Yessir - how could there be another Soupboy? 

If you live in the Twin Cities area I'd appreciate the opportunity to see your set-up in person.

Sean



ulcerpentacidis said:


> will do tonite!
> 
> also, you're on morcforum right?


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## SHLOMIDO (Mar 30, 2006)

*alfine on 29er*

who builds wheelsets with these hubs ?
please advise where can i find those hubs in the US and in Germany , as well as bikeshops who build custom wheels with the alfine .
i realy like the idea of the alfine on my NINER - SIR and looking for it 
thank you


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Any good builder can build you a wheel, any shimano dealer in europe can get hold of Alfine.


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## SHLOMIDO (Mar 30, 2006)

*alfine custom mtb wheelset*

thanks , but i hope to get specific recomendations from builders and/ or people that already ordered wheels .
thank u


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## goody (Jul 29, 2007)

fux said:


> I dunno why but I can`t feel the slow engagement out in the trails.
> 
> There is no direct drive gear so it feels like you have a pulley system for gears. Its a bit unusual, not a niggle or problem. Another negative I have read is the ratio jump. I love it because I (you lot too! just admit it.) hardley ever chage one gear at a time. I always seemed to up 2-3 or down the whole rear cog.
> 
> Through slow tecky stuff I can shift gears without having to think about what my legs are doing. I just shift, freewheeling or not.


Hi,

I read that 5th gear is direct gear.

Question re trigger shifter (rapidfire): Does it allow to change more than one gear up or down at one time? Or does it allow to change only one gear with one press?

Alfine is compatible with Nexus8 revoshifter (which allows to change more than one gear with one more or less big rotation)! Might be worth a thought...


----------



## wayneosdias (Mar 24, 2004)

goody said:


> Hi,
> 
> Question re trigger shifter (rapidfire): Does it allow to change more than one gear up or down at one time? Or does it allow to change only one gear with one press?


On my oem setup w/rapidfire its a gear per trigger, no jumping multple cogs.

wayne


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Yes is a 1 shift only trigger.

The reason why Alfine appeals is because I have never been a fan of grip-shift type shifters.


----------



## goody (Jul 29, 2007)

Well, thanks for this info. 

I understand that the trigger shifter has its benefits. But it seems as if the revoshifter has some, too.

Perhaps I might try the trigger in future...


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## JimmyC85 (Apr 30, 2008)

Hello everyone, Just thought i'd post to let you know that our "mud" bike equipped with Shimano Alfine rear hub will be out in August and we now have all the details on what the spec will be like for the complete build up on our website. If you have any questions let me know. www.chargebikes.com

Jim
Charge Bikes


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

Could you give us a link to where it is on your site? I poked around but couldn't find it.



JimmyC85 said:


> Hello everyone, Just thought i'd post to let you know that our "mud" bike equipped with Shimano Alfine rear hub will be out in August and we now have all the details on what the spec will be like for the complete build up on our website. If you have any questions let me know. www.chargebikes.com
> 
> Jim
> Charge Bikes


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## eric_syd (Nov 10, 2005)

*looks like this one ????*

http://www.chargebikes.com/testing/products/bikes/detail.php?id=8


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## steeley (Jan 14, 2008)

Soupboy said:


> Fantastic. Who's running one stateside on a full susser?


Not Stateside but been running this set up all year


----------



## scruffylooking (Sep 15, 2005)

Nice job steeley. Are you using a centerlock to 6 bolt adaptor for that rear brake or does shimano make that hub in 6 bolt? Oh, wait. Does Hope make centerlock rotors?


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## steeley (Jan 14, 2008)

Runnung DT centre lock adapter with hope floating six bolt disc. Much lighter than Shimano.


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## Soupboy (Jan 13, 2004)

steeley said:


> Not Stateside but been running this set up all year


Dagnabit that looks so much more gooderer than a traditional derailleur set-up. Good work.:thumbsup:


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## schapman43 (Feb 26, 2007)

I saw that the Specialized Globe Centrum comes with the Alfine stuff from Shimano. I just ordered the Sport model but would like to upgrade down the road. Thanks for all the info.


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## None (Oct 31, 2005)

Thirty six thousand one hundred and fifty four views ...Somebody should tell Shimano there is a real interest in this type of drive system for off-road riding!

Me included!


----------



## Duzitall (Feb 4, 2004)

Agreed and by the by steely...that litespeed is really cool :thumbsup:


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## jeremyuk (Jan 9, 2008)

After winter testing at least two British firms are offering Alfine geared mountain bikes, albeit in 26" format. To date there doesn't appear to be a durability problem. The obvious step is to make it belt drive, but that needs a detachable drive side dropout.


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

jeremyuk said:


> After winter testing at least two British firms are offering Alfine geared mountain bikes, albeit in 26" format. To date there doesn't appear to be a durability problem. The obvious step is to make it belt drive, but that needs a detachable drive side dropout.


Trek has the Gates belt drive and Alfine on several bikes for 2009, no mountain bikes though.

I don't have a 29er but I'll post up my Giant Trance with Alfine when I get it in a week or so. My LBS has the wheel built up, I'm just waiting on some tires.:thumbsup:


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## Monkeybike (Feb 25, 2008)

None said:


> Thirty six thousand one hundred and fifty four views ...Somebody should tell Shimano there is a real interest in this type of drive system for off-road riding!
> 
> Me included!


and someone should tell them that is a strong cookie as well, I have been using it in my dh bike since February, I do not know how many miles on it. but I do know that is holding pretty well on drops and jumps (with landings as soft as bricks)










maybe this hub would suffer more on a xc bike being exposed to bigger torque under climbing, but I do a bit of free riding now and then and it has never slipped a gear or made any strange pinging sounds.


----------



## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

I rode in gooey gloop for 4 days solid last weekend.



















And not a single glitch.....


----------



## bobbotron (Nov 28, 2007)

Monkeybike said:


> and someone should tell them that is a strong cookie as well, I have been using it in my dh bike since February, I do not know how many miles on it. but I do know that is holding pretty well on drops and jumps (with landings as soft as bricks)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Woah dude! Is it just me, or are your wheels warped in those photos?


----------



## Monkeybike (Feb 25, 2008)

bobbotron said:


> Woah dude! Is it just me, or are your wheels warped in those photos?


it is not just you, that tire was done by the end of the day, I've already took care of it.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

The Alfine group is the top of the range in Shimano's Nexus oferings, so I don't see any sort of impetus from their end to push it for offroad. 

In fact, I just got my Bicycle Retailer and Industry News rag today which has an article about this very thing. Shimano is making a big effort to push Alfine as a commuter/urban type group. They are also going to offer a pre-built wheel set that will feature the 8spd Alfine hub, disc ready, and a generator front hub. (MSRP at $550.00)So as you can see, they don't have mtb for Alfine on their radar and are not suggesting it as such to OEMs. I don't doubt that smaller, more independantly minded U.S. based companies will be doing something for off road with Alfine hubs, but that's just a guess.

As for me, I already have a bike in mind for this Alfine hub and it is going to be an awesome 29"er/Adventure/Tourer rig. I can't wait to pop it all together in the winter months!

Great thread! Thanks for alll the "muddy pics" which sealed the deal for me on my ideas.


----------



## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Can`t wait to see what you are up to!


----------



## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

fux said:


> Can`t wait to see what you are up to!


Tomorrow a big piece of the puzzle will be revealed.


----------



## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

I want one. Are they in Canada yet? I just bought an XL 07 El Mar. frameset which the Alfine should work with well because of the EBB. Now I need to build it light, since the frame is really big and the hub is heavy too. 

Drew


----------



## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

dru said:


> Are they in Canada yet?


Yes. In small quantities.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Guitar Ted said:


> As for me, I already have a bike in mind for this Alfine hub and it is going to be an awesome 29"er/Adventure/Tourer rig. I can't wait to pop it all together in the winter months!


Cat's outta the bag, me too! Finally, my dream bike is coming, and it will go far! YIppee! :thumbsup:


----------



## burner (Mar 7, 2005)

GT said:


> Tomorrow a big piece of the puzzle will be revealed.





slocaus said:


> Cat's outta the bag, me too! Finally, my dream bike is coming, and it will go far! YIppee! :thumbsup:


it is? where?

I just got an Alfine laced up to an Arch. Going on my crosscheck for the time being.


----------



## lil hillbilly (May 18, 2005)

*close*

that bike needs the casserole syle drops and how are they getting the stack height? Is it one of those stem X-tender or just a bunch of large spacers or custom length big spacer? 
That bike is screemin for some mustash bars and one of the old salsa riser stems and while there at it make it color matched! :thumbsup:


----------



## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

burner said:


> it is? where?
> 
> I just got an Alfine laced up to an Arch. Going on my crosscheck for the time being.


Duuuuude! You gotta know bout this by now!  










Fargo!

lil hillbilly: Casseroll drops.................yeah, I see your point, but with the intended use of this bike, those drops are more a liability than a plus. Add in disc brakes and well........ Not good.

Why not get a Karate Monkey? A lot of similar features and way more fixie friendly. That said, I'd still love to stick the Afine hub on this, even though I'll likely have to use a chain tensioner of some sort.


----------



## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Guitar Ted said:


> Duuuuude! You gotta know bout this by now!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm with you putting the Alfine on a Fargo. I'll look for a good pushup tensioner that tucks under the chain stay. I remember seeing tensioners that go around the chainring, or maybe even a chain guide on the front ring!? :idea: What fun this is going to be! 
I know this is not possible on the Fargo, but ooohhhhhh!









(from singletrackworld.com Eurobike coverage)


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## burner (Mar 7, 2005)

For everyone's info.... because I just ran into this issue... 

there are dropout specific "Non-Turn washers" that are needed for the Alfines, there are 8 different kinds, but the hubs only come with 4 of the kinds.... so make sure when you order that you get the washers for your dropout types.

This will avoid you having to wait for washers, as I now do, before you can ride your new hub.

me likey the fargo!


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

Got it on Sunday, with its extras like a Surly Singleator chain tensioner, Race Face bash guard which I probably didn't need and Sram SS chain which again I probably didn't need it weights quite a bit more than the old XT/XTR setup but so long as it stays as good as the first ride I wouldn't change it for anything. The bike feels a bit weird at the moment because I've now got a strong solid feeling rear rim and a front rim best described as flimsy that you can physically see flexing on tight corners but I'll have that fixed soon and I'll have some lighter bits to compensate for the weight increase. Anyway, as others have said the shift is so slick you hardly notice it, all the gears feel super smooth, the hub is completely silent which I love, to my surprise it spins freely after hardly any use, it always shifts when pedalling although it does take a little longer if your really pedalling hard, the shifter works in reverse of a normal derailleur type shifter in that you release the smaller lever get into easier gears etc which I think I will be able to get used to, the highest gear is just about perfect for the fast XC riding in my area but I haven't had a chance to take it to more challenging terrain to try out the lower gears yet. I'm running 18T rear cog and 32T front and I also put a set of Hutchinson Toro 1.85 & 2.15 tires on to improve mud performance over the Michelin dry weather tires previously on there.:thumbsup:


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## Seagull987 (Nov 4, 2006)

I have a Nicolai Argon FR that I have built up with an Alfine hub, but no matter how tight I get it, I can pull the hub out of the driveside dropout when really putting the power through the drivetrain on climbs. The non-drive side droput is extended so doesn't have an issue, its the short dropout thats causing problems. Anyone else had this issue? I've asked Nicolai for some advice, but was wondering if anyone had seen similar problems and how did they fix it. 

Apart from the problem of the hub occasionally falling out, its a great device, not too heavy and just the right amount of gears.


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

From looking at the photo of the frame on this page - http://www.moonglu.com/argonfr.html it appears that the driveside dropout isn't deep enough. I'd suggest bugging Nicolai to make a better one for you.


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

I agree, it looks to shallow.

I also would like to say that I won a race on saturday onboard my Alfine kitted bike.

Yay!




























More pictures of 26`ers running where I rode..

http://www.moisund.com/Arkiv%20haust%202008/September%2008/Ranestadloepet.htm

What a great feeling.


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## RPK3 (Aug 18, 2005)

*2009 Alifine / Nexus 8*

I sat in on part of a tech seminar for Shimano's internal gear hubs. They said that the MY 2009 8 speed hubs are moving to a roller clutch instead of a pawl system. I think this is like the Stealth hub. They went on to say that this should result in silent operation and quicker engagement. The problem is, I don't think it will be able to handle the same amount of torque. I may just slip under big loads. So it sounds like the older pawl design is a better one for MTB applications. Better start looking for the old one if you want to use it in the dirt.


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

RPK3 said:


> I sat in on part of a tech seminar for Shimano's internal gear hubs. They said that the MY 2009 8 speed hubs are moving to a roller clutch instead of a pawl system. I think this is like the Stealth hub. They went on to say that this should result in silent operation and quicker engagement. The problem is, I don't think it will be able to handle the same amount of torque. I may just slip under big loads. So it sounds like the older pawl design is a better one for MTB applications. Better start looking for the old one if you want to use it in the dirt.


The Alfine has had a roller clutch for several years now, I think its proved itself by now and the silence is beautiful&#8230;must be the nexus hubs that are changing for 09.
 
The dropouts on the Nicolai look fine to me, I was riding the same bike equipped with a Rohloff just last week and had a good look at that area of the bike, have you got the right drop out washer things on there?

Just for fun here's another photo of mine which is still working great&#8230;:thumbsup:


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## RPK3 (Aug 18, 2005)

*Alfine vs. Rohloff?*



EGF168 said:


> The Alfine has had a roller clutch for several years now, I think its proved itself by now and the silence is beautiful&#8230;must be the nexus hubs that are changing for 09.
> 
> The dropouts on the Nicolai look fine to me, I was riding the same bike equipped with a Rohloff just last week and had a good look at that area of the bike, have you got the right drop out washer things on there?
> 
> Just for fun here's another photo of mine which is still working great&#8230;:thumbsup:




Odd, as the Shimano mechanic was very specific in saying that the roller clutch had just been added to the 8 speed hubs instead of the pawl engagement and that the alfine and nexus were the same internal mechanism. If the Alfine had it all along, you must be right; nexus just got upgraded to alfine spec.

So have you ever noticed the roller clutch slipping under heavy load?

I have never used an Alfine equipped bike but I did test ride a San Jose 8 a couple of years ago at Harris Cyclery which used a nexus 8. I didn't notice anything odd about the experience and loved being able to twist the shifter at the stop light with thinking about pedaling. When I pedaled several bikes with the rohloff at interbike, there was a very gritty sensation at the pedals almost like the chain was covered in sand. I realize that the rohloff takes time to break in and these were brand new units, but it was an odd sensation. It felt like there is a big loss of efficiency over a conventional one even though they claim otherwise. EGF168, as someone who has ridden both the alfine and rohloff hubs off road, how do they compare?


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

There are also 7spd Nexus. Perhaps he was aiming specfically on the 8spd Nexus versions.


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

RPK3 said:


> So have you ever noticed the roller clutch slipping under heavy load?
> 
> I have never used an Alfine equipped bike but I did test ride a San Jose 8 a couple of years ago at Harris Cyclery which used a nexus 8. I didn't notice anything odd about the experience and loved being able to twist the shifter at the stop light with thinking about pedaling. When I pedaled several bikes with the rohloff at interbike, there was a very gritty sensation at the pedals almost like the chain was covered in sand. I realize that the rohloff takes time to break in and these were brand new units, but it was an odd sensation. It felt like there is a big loss of efficiency over a conventional one even though they claim otherwise. EGF168, as someone who has ridden both the alfine and rohloff hubs off road, how do they compare?


The roller clutch has never slipped but I've only had the Alfine for 5 weeks, hopefully that won't change with more use. There's a lot of things I don't like about the Rohloff. I hate grip shifters not that there's anything particularly bad about the Rohloff one but the Alfine has a really nice trigger shifter, the break in period for a Rohloff is ridiculously long, you just install the Alfine and ride, no drag and no vibration and the price of the Rohloff is stupid, you can get 5 Alfine's for the same price or if you get a good deal you can get a whole bike fitted with Alfine for the same price, and it's a good bike too. I do appreciate the extra gears on the Rohloff which help on really fast sections and steep uphill sections but the Alfine has more than enough and is lighter because of it. Getting rid of a cable for the FD is a plus point with the Alfine but the Rohloff needs 2 cables and special bits for the rear brake. The Rohloff also makes a noise just like any standard hub and has pretty slow engagement. The good news is that the drag on the Rohloff does go away and most gears smooth out nicely but vibration is still noticeable in some gears and the Rohloff that I was riding had a lot of use on 3 bikes in the last 3 years as a regularly thrashed test bike. When it comes down to actually riding them they're both very good, the Rohloff doesn't rattle on rougher sections like the Alfine does and you have to stop pedalling to shift with the Rohloff whereas you just need to ease off a bit on the Alfine. I like them both but for me the Alfine will always win just as the next man will have the money for the Rohloff, the patience to break it in, will want something tougher and have some lighter bits on his bike to compensate for the weight.:thumbsup:


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

EGF168 said:


> When it comes down to actually riding them they're both very good, the Rohloff doesn't rattle on rougher sections like the Alfine does


What's this rattle you speak of? I get really annoyed by rattling on my bike. That's part of what I love about singlespeed, it's so quiet.


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## 2:1 (Jan 27, 2004)

*prebuilt wheels from Shimano*

The Shimano Web site shows Alfine wheelsets... The front has a dynamo, but hey, who among us wouldn't be down with having a nice dynamo light set up...

I just noticed that, and I've been impressed with the Shimano wheels so far. These are stainless spokes laced onto a disc-only 700c rim. Ought to be very niiiice.


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

Vermont29er said:


> What's this rattle you speak of? I get really annoyed by rattling on my bike. That's part of what I love about singlespeed, it's so quiet.


I don't know really, when you stop pedalling and hit a really rough section something goes bonk every now and then, it's by no means a continuous rattle and pales to the chain slap I'm getting from the Maestro suspension. Could also have something to do with the narrow 1.85 tire I'm running at 45psi cos that's not exactly going to soften any bumps.


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## chunkypaul (May 2, 2005)

*alfine assembly question*

what i am doing wrong? got an alfine mated to an arch 29er rim for a future project (niner or scandal slotty)

assembling my alfine hub according to the instructions - the cassette joint fixing ring (the one with the yellow dot that surposed to turn 45 degrees) will not fit on the joint pulley - it will only slide into place without the snap ring in place - which is securing the sprocket.....?

plus are the 'dust cap' and 'driver cap' identical parts? they look different in the diagrams in the installation guide but mine are definitely the same....

anybody experience similar issues?


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

2:1 said:


> The Shimano Web site shows Alfine wheelsets... The front has a dynamo, but hey, who among us wouldn't be down with having a nice dynamo light set up...
> 
> I just noticed that, and I've been impressed with the Shimano wheels so far. These are stainless spokes laced onto a disc-only 700c rim. Ought to be very niiiice.


The hubs shown in those pics have a different spoke interface than what I've seen with Alfine before. Appears to be a straight-pull setup. Interesting.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

*How hard is it to take out the back wheel?*

I am just about to pull the trigger and order myself a nice black 8 speed Alfine hub, but have one last question. I have read some comments that it is a pain to disconnect the cable to remove the rear wheel, anyone care to comment? How does the process work anyway? Pictures would be great!

Thanks,
Mark


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Its a piece of cake.

Drop it down to first to give yourself loads of slack. Then push the sliding mechanism up and towards the front of the bike with one hand hold and pull the tail end of the cable.

Job done.

Now that my racing season is over, I have switched the Alfine over to my Inbred for commuter and training purposes...










If you fit your bike with lock on grips, the prosess of changing from Alfine to ss is a 10 minute job.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

fux said:


> Its a piece of cake.
> 
> Drop it down to first to give yourself loads of slack. Then push the sliding mechanism up and towards the front of the bike with one hand hold and pull the tail end of the cable.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the quick reply, fux, sounds like it is pretty easy. My plan is to run full length cable housing and Ergon lock-on grips so I can swap very easily.

Mark


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## eric_syd (Nov 10, 2005)

*Have you looked at the specs ?*



2:1 said:


> The Shimano Web site shows Alfine wheelsets... The front has a dynamo, but hey, who among us wouldn't be down with having a nice dynamo light set up...
> 
> I just noticed that, and I've been impressed with the Shimano wheels so far. These are stainless spokes laced onto a disc-only 700c rim. Ought to be very niiiice.


They are 24 spokes. I would not use them off-road.


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## intheways (Apr 19, 2004)

EGF168 said:


> Got it on Sunday, with its extras like a Surly Singleator chain tensioner, Race Face bash guard which I probably didn't need and Sram SS chain which again I probably didn't need it weights quite a bit more than the old XT/XTR setup but so long as it stays as good as the first ride I wouldn't change it for anything. The bike feels a bit weird at the moment because I've now got a strong solid feeling rear rim and a front rim best described as flimsy that you can physically see flexing on tight corners but I'll have that fixed soon and I'll have some lighter bits to compensate for the weight increase. Anyway, as others have said the shift is so slick you hardly notice it, all the gears feel super smooth, the hub is completely silent which I love, to my surprise it spins freely after hardly any use, it always shifts when pedalling although it does take a little longer if your really pedalling hard, the shifter works in reverse of a normal derailleur type shifter in that you release the smaller lever get into easier gears etc which I think I will be able to get used to, the highest gear is just about perfect for the fast XC riding in my area but I haven't had a chance to take it to more challenging terrain to try out the lower gears yet. I'm running 18T rear cog and 32T front and I also put a set of Hutchinson Toro 1.85 & 2.15 tires on to improve mud performance over the Michelin dry weather tires previously on there.:thumbsup:


Cool bike! What type of seat?


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

intheways said:


> Cool bike! What type of seat?


Charge Spoon, I've tried a lot of seats and I generally end up using this or the SDG Bel-Air, the SDG has a bit more padding but the Charge fits me better and flex's more so they're both great. I think Charge should be starting to sell them in the US very soon if they aren't already, they sell like hotcakes so they're pretty hard to get a hold of.:thumbsup:

This thread may interest you:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=336818


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## dejacky (Jun 27, 2006)

can a front derailleur be used with this to add twice as many overall gears (2 crank cog gears)?


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

dejacky said:


> can a front derailleur be used with this to add twice as many overall gears (2 crank cog gears)?


If you want to use a front derailleur you will need a tensioner like I have with enough free chain for the larger rings but it should work fine.:thumbsup:


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## 20.100 FR (Jan 13, 2004)

dejacky said:


> can a front derailleur be used with this to add twice as many overall gears (2 crank cog gears)?


yes. I rode one of theses setup on a Bike from a German guy.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

dejacky said:


> can a front derailleur be used with this to add twice as many overall gears (2 crank cog gears)?


As the last 2 posters said, you could do that, but you will need either a spring loaded singlespeed chain tensioner (like a Pauls Melvin), or a rear dearailleur, as well as a front derailleur to move the chain between chainrings. You may also have some issues with the chainline, which will not be perfect in either gear. If you ask me, that kind of defeats the purpose of using and internally geared hub in the first place, which for me is to get rid of the exposed/vulnerable rear derailleur.

But, I have a better idea. How about combining an Alfine rear hub with one of the new Truvativ Hammerschmidt internally geared cranksets? You would then get 16 speeds, no front or rear derailleur, perfect chainline, and a heavy and expensive drivetrain! I guess at that point you might as well just buy a Rohloff.

I think that for most people the 8 speeds will be enough, unless you are using the bike for mounainbiking as well as riding on the road. The higher gears are just not needed when you are riding in the woods.

BTW: I just recieved my new rear wheel from MC a couple of days ago. Shimano Alfine, black, 32h laced to a Stans Flow rim. I will hopefully be mounting it on my Black Sheep this weekend. I will start a new post at some point with my experiences.

Mark


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## dejacky (Jun 27, 2006)

bikeny said:


> As the last 2 posters said, you could do that, but you will need either a spring loaded singlespeed chain tensioner (like a Pauls Melvin), or a rear dearailleur, as well as a front derailleur to move the chain between chainrings. You may also have some issues with the chainline, which will not be perfect in either gear. If you ask me, that kind of defeats the purpose of using and internally geared hub in the first place, which for me is to get rid of the exposed/vulnerable rear derailleur.
> 
> But, I have a better idea. How about combining an Alfine rear hub with one of the new Truvativ Hammerschmidt internally geared cranksets? You would then get 16 speeds, no front or rear derailleur, perfect chainline, and a heavy and expensive drivetrain! I guess at that point you might as well just buy a Rohloff.
> 
> ...


 thanks for that helpful information! It doesn't seem like the truvative is much heavier than traditional setups!:

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2357923/


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## Pabs (Aug 4, 2007)

I'm interested in an internal hub, don't fon't want to compromise down from my Chris King. Would the Rolhoff still be the way to go, despite the money?


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## 20.100 FR (Jan 13, 2004)

biken said:


> BTW: I just recieved my new rear wheel from MC a couple of days ago. Shimano Alfine, black, 32h laced to a Stans Flow rim. I will hopefully be mounting it on my Black Sheep this weekend. I will start a new post at some point with my experiences.
> 
> Mark


Nice. Just the build i'm looking for.
Please post picture and ride reports !


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## dosboy (Oct 29, 2006)

bikeny said:


> As the last 2 posters said, you could do that, but you will need either a spring loaded singlespeed chain tensioner (like a Pauls Melvin), or a rear dearailleur, as well as a front derailleur to move the chain between chainrings. You may also have some issues with the chainline, which will not be perfect in either gear. If you ask me, that kind of defeats the purpose of using and internally geared hub in the first place, which for me is to get rid of the exposed/vulnerable rear derailleur.
> 
> But, I have a better idea. How about combining an Alfine rear hub with one of the new Truvativ Hammerschmidt internally geared cranksets? You would then get 16 speeds, no front or rear derailleur, perfect chainline, and a heavy and expensive drivetrain! I guess at that point you might as well just buy a Rohloff.
> 
> ...


whats a rear wheel like that cost?


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

bikeny said:


> ...for most people the 8 speeds will be enough, unless you are using the bike for mounainbiking as well as riding on the road....


I agree. If you factor in the cost of a Rolhoff 14 speed hub, you can have two IGH bikes for less money. I converted my 27 speed HT to an Alfine. I run a 32/22 which gives me the same low gear as a 22/30, 22 inches. My high gear is 68 inches, plenty for any trails I ride. I have a dedicated 8 speed Nexus commuter with 38/21, gives me 28" to 85" gear range. Total cost of both bikes is less than $2K. No need to swap wheels, tires, fenders, I just ride the right bike.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

*Misfit diSSent w/Alfine*

Converted my 3x9 HT to Alfine, much nicer:


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## Pabs (Aug 4, 2007)

pursuiter said:


> I agree. If you factor in the cost of a Rolhoff 14 speed hub, you can have two IGH bikes for less money. I converted my 27 speed HT to an Alfine. I run a 32/22 which gives me the same low gear as a 22/30, 22 inches. My high gear is 68 inches, plenty for any trails I ride. I have a dedicated 8 speed Nexus commuter with 38/21, gives me 28" to 85" gear range. Total cost of both bikes is less than $2K. No need to swap wheels, tires, fenders, I just ride the right bike.


So what's the deal with the Rolhoff hub, then? It is more durable, lighter, or what?


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Pabs said:


> So what's the deal with the Rolhoff hub, then? It is more durable, lighter, or what?


Big advantage is the 14 speeds, they're well spaced and go pretty low. It's as heavy as the SRAM i-Motion 9, one pound more than the Alfine. As for durable, some report excellent service life, other claim defects on hubs with less than 500 miles. Here's a web site with good info:

http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/


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## Pabs (Aug 4, 2007)

pursuiter said:


> Big advantage is the 14 speeds, they're well spaced and go pretty low. It's as heavy as the SRAM i-Motion 9, one pound more than the Alfine. As for durable, some report excellent service life, other claim defects on hubs with less than 500 miles. Here's a web site with good info:
> 
> http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/


Do you get a bigger range with Rolhoff, or just more gears in that range?


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Pabs said:


> Do you get a bigger range with Rolhoff, or just more gears in that range?


Rohloff has wider range with smallest steps. i-M 9 is next best, Alfine has one less gear than i-M 9 with un-even steps.

From the Hubstripping website:

http://www.hubstripping.com/review/gear steps group c.jpg


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

*Alfine on complete bike*

I just found this thread. I was at REI in Boulder a few weeks ago and they had a 2009 Novara (REI house brand) city bike with Alfine hubs front and rear. I had never seen them.

The bike looks really well made. The dynamo feeds a nice LED/halogen dual beam light mounted on the fork. It has a rear LED light and a bombproof rear rack. The disk brake calipers are cheapie no name mechanicals, but the shop guy said they worked great. Rims are 700C with tires that had reflective sidewalls.

One disappointment to me was that it had vertical drops and a chain tensioner. I guess if you look at the glass half-full view of that, you could mount a front derailleur and a triple if you wanted.

The bike is $900. Of course, REI being what they are, they will have a sale someday. Their 20% off coupons specifically exclude bikes, or I might have been tempted.

Since it looks like a F&R set of Alfine wheels + shifter would set you back a minimum of $450 or so, the bike seems to be really reasonably priced.

If you have never seen Alfine and want to check it out, head to REI.


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## LukeSPOOK (Aug 27, 2007)

*EGF168 Alfine hub full sus bike.*



EGF168 said:


> Got it on Sunday, with its extras like a Surly Singleator chain tensioner, Race Face bash guard which I probably didn't need and Sram SS chain which again I probably didn't need it weights quite a bit more than the old XT/XTR setup but so long as it stays as good as the first ride I wouldn't change it for anything. The bike feels a bit weird at the moment because I've now got a strong solid feeling rear rim and a front rim best described as flimsy that you can physically see flexing on tight corners but I'll have that fixed soon and I'll have some lighter bits to compensate for the weight increase. Anyway, as others have said the shift is so slick you hardly notice it, all the gears feel super smooth, the hub is completely silent which I love, to my surprise it spins freely after hardly any use, it always shifts when pedalling although it does take a little longer if your really pedalling hard, the shifter works in reverse of a normal derailleur type shifter in that you release the smaller lever get into easier gears etc which I think I will be able to get used to, the highest gear is just about perfect for the fast XC riding in my area but I haven't had a chance to take it to more challenging terrain to try out the lower gears yet. I'm running 18T rear cog and 32T front and I also put a set of Hutchinson Toro 1.85 & 2.15 tires on to improve mud performance over the Michelin dry weather tires previously on there.:thumbsup:


Hi, 
Awesome bike EGF168 -- great to see someone put together such a bike.
I have been thinking of building such a bike for couple of years now and after seeing yours and your feedback on its performance, I will put mine together as soon as I can obtain all the necessary parts I need here in Australia.
Few questions for you - you are using a 32 spoke rear rim -- is that working all right or should I opt for a 36 spoke version of the hub ?
Also, are the gearing ratios you have chosen ( ie: 18 rear and 32 front ) working allright for you ? ( I'm wanting to be able to go up steep hills easier more than go fast on the downhill ).
Also interested in your feedback on the chainguard/bashring and your surly singulator as opposed to the Alfine tensioner.
Cheers


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

The Alfine is a big hub so naturally the flange will be further out which makes the wheel stronger than a standard hub would anyway, I’m running a very strong rim for general XC usage so that also helps. For XC and trail use I don’t see a purpose to having the 36h hub. 

The gear ratio I’ve chosen seems perfect for me, I’ve yet to find a hill I can’t get up that I could on an ordinary 27spd set up. If anything I think I would like a 9th slightly higher gear but it depends where you ride and how fit you are on what gear ratio would be best for you, lots of people on here like the 20t ring but they’re mostly on snow bikes and 29ers which need a gear ratio that’s lower. My Trance is also a pretty fast bike that climbs very well so I’d definitely have to think more carefully if it was one of my other bikes.

The Race Face bash guard is very good and looks nice but I don’t really hit it on enough stuff to make it worthwhile and that‘s with a pretty low BB on the Trance. I’ll probably take that off soon to save weight. If you’ve got a purpose for one then Race Face makes a great bash ring…

The Surly Singleator is great, I think the Alfine one somewhat defeats the purpose of going IGH, it’s far too obtrusive and entirely unnecessary. The Singleator looks good, holds the chain with just the right amount of force, the chain has never come off it and the Singleator wheel runs freely and seems to be holding up very well.:thumbsup:


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## LukeSPOOK (Aug 27, 2007)

Thanks for your reply EGF, you are one of the pioneers in internal gear hubs for mtbs, and your information is very valuable.
You will see that this style of bike will take off big time in coming years -- just look at the popularity of the Genesis iO ID -- all of the 2008 bikes sold out very quickly.
Few more questions - what crank arm length are you using and can a standard chain be used with the Alfine hub ?
My bike is a GT I-Drive 4 3.0 with WTB SX24 rims - not sure of the rims ultimate strength but they seem okay at present -- I'm not into big jumps, just XC and trails.
I intend using a Nexus 8 SL-8S20 grip shift with my setup also.
I'll post some pics of my bikes progress when ready.
Cheers


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

The cranks are the stock 175mm length, I’m pretty tall so I really want to get 180mm Truvativ Stylo SS cranks on there as longer cranks work better with taller people and it gives you a bit more leverage. I believe you can use an ordinary chain on there but the Sram PC1 SS chain I have is only £10, it’s heavier but you can really notice the difference in strength and it feels a bit smoother. I look forward to seeing your finished IGH I-drive!


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## LukeSPOOK (Aug 27, 2007)

Hello again EGF168, 
I'm still configuring my IGH bike - another question - can you use any disc (I"m using an Avid disc) with the Alfine hub by using an adapter or do you have to use a Shimano centrelock disc ?
Cheers


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

You can get an adaptor from DT Swiss or Formula so yes, you can run any disc. It doesn’t matter what brand of rotor you’re using so long as the brake track is the right size for you calliper.


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## drool (May 15, 2007)

*Shimano Chainline*

So how is everybody getting around the 42 mm chainline on the Shimano hub?

I have a GF Rig frame I bought that I want to build into an 8 speed.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

drool said:


> So how is everybody getting around the 42 mm chainline on the Shimano hub?....


I flipped the dished cog outward, that makes the Alfine chainline 47mm. I have an outboard bearing BB (Shimano LX), I moved one of the 3mm spacers from the left side of the BB to the left side. Than makes the crank's middle chainring position 47mm.


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## drool (May 15, 2007)

Very sneaky.

Based on the Truvativ info I have I will have a 48.5 chainline so I am getting within the realm of adjustment if I can get 47 at the rear cog.


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## biketuna (Mar 28, 2008)

Can someone tell me if the Alfine shifter can be up and down shifted with your thumb only?
Like the XTR's and Sram shifters.
Thanks


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

biketuna said:


> Can someone tell me if the Alfine shifter can be up and down shifted with your thumb only?
> Like the XTR's and Sram shifters.
> Thanks


No, unfortunately it doesn't have the Dual Release lever. The shifting also works in reverse of a normal one so you use the small lever to go into lower gears and use the main thumb shifter to go into higher gears.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

So has anyone tried mixing an Alfine or similar IGH with a hammerschmidt crankset?

24 gears with no derailleurs.:thumbsup:


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## DedGuyRidin (May 19, 2007)

Very cool to see people running Alfine on both HT and FS bikes with excellent results. Cant wait to try it for myself!:thumbsup: 

Happy Trails


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Dougal said:


> So has anyone tried mixing an Alfine or similar IGH with a hammerschmidt crankset?


Not an Alfine, but I did do it with the Sachs 3x7 and a Super-7 years ago. It was just like any other multi-geared set-up with too much overlap in the gears. It was a fun project though.


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## montclairbobbyb (Aug 4, 2003)

*Hammerschmidt with Alfine?*



Dougal said:


> So has anyone tried mixing an Alfine or similar IGH with a hammerschmidt crankset?
> 
> 24 gears with no derailleurs.:thumbsup:


According to SRAM the Hammerschmidt would chew up the internals of an Alfine (or other IG hub)... I think the ideal size for a front chainring with an IG hub is around 32. An upper chainring of 46 - 52 might be too rough on the internals (which is effectively what a Hammerschmidt provides).

Personally I think the HS is essentially useless unless it CAN be married with an IG hub (THAT is where is starts to make sense)... $800 just to eliminate a front derailleur? No way. Plus using a Hammerschmidt with a 10-speed cassette would produce an awful chainline except for the middle gears, effectively rendering half the gears useless, right?

Sorry SRAM... I love and use your stuff (including P5 and S7 IG hubs)... FIGURE OUT a way to get the IG hub working with the IG crank and you'll have a sure winner... otherwise you got an $800 lemon....


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

montclairbobbyb said:


> According to SRAM the Hammerschmidt would chew up the internals of an Alfine (or other IG hub)... I think the ideal size for a front chainring with an IG hub is around 32. An upper chainring of 46 - 52 might be too rough on the internals (which is effectively what a Hammerschmidt provides)....


Funny SRAM's worried about the Alfine when it's the i-Motion 9 that's isn't up to it. Actully, it's the low gear that kills the IGH. Plenty of us are running 32x22 on the Alfine with no issues, so far...SRAM limits the i-m9 to 38x22 minimum.


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## dejacky (Jun 27, 2006)

pursuiter said:


> Plenty of us are running 32x22 on the Alfine with no issues, so far...


 What kind of feasible tops speed in terms of mph is one able to achieve with that setup? I'm planning on using the alfine and want to make sure I can feasibly pedal to 30mph on a downhill. (I don't need more top speed than that)


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

My 33x22 setup tops out at about 70 gear inches. According to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, when you pedal that at 120 RPM, you are going around 25 MPH. That is for a 29 inch wheel, if you are on 26 inch it will be lower.

Under decent conditions (flat road, calm wind, not insanely cold) I can easily roll the biggest gear on my Pugsley. You won't get very far pedaling that gear down hills.


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## rdhfreethought (Aug 12, 2006)

montclairbobbyb said:


> Personally I think the HS is essentially useless unless it CAN be married with an IG hub (THAT is where is starts to make sense)... $800 just to eliminate a front derailleur? No way. Plus using a Hammerschmidt with a 10-speed cassette would produce an awful chainline except for the middle gears, effectively rendering half the gears useless, right?
> 
> Sorry SRAM... I love and use your stuff (including P5 and S7 IG hubs)... FIGURE OUT a way to get the IG hub working with the IG crank and you'll have a sure winner... otherwise you got an $800 lemon....


I have thought of combining the two, but you get very close to the price of a Rohloff when you go both HS and Alfine. Love them or not, the Rohloff can handle the stresses of AM and FR riding, the jury is still out on the Alfine. Durability (i.e. miles) vs price seem to favor the Alfine, but if you want to pedal your bike uphill, you need at least a 2x8 or the ROhloff.

The chainline worries with a HS and 9sp (10sp? Those are for lycra freaks) are not that big of an issue since you can either toss the smallest cogs from the cassette, or keep them and aim for zero chainline in the high torque gears (2nd or 3rd). No one stays anaerobic for long in top gear (both grinding up a fire road and going all out on flats is aerobic), but its very common in the lowest gears to get over obstacles.

Also, the "beauty" of the IGH +Hammerschmidt option is lost on a Full Suspension bike, since you need a real chain tensioner (I personally think the Surly singulator is garbage for a FS, but nice and clean --if you need it-- on a HT). Having a 'real' tensioner, which is effectively a derailleur, destroys the clean cosmetics of the theoretical IGH+HS design. So for me there are only 2 real world options for an AM/FR bike:

A) Rohloff +single/bash = $1400+
B) HS plus 9sp cassette = $800

From that perspective the Hammerschmidt is the financial "deal". If someone is willing to risk using an Alfine+tensioner on an AM/FR bike +Hammerschmidt thats going to be nearly the cost of the Rohloff, and give you twice the parasitic drag (about 2% each I believe) with the additional worry of the strength of the Alfine when used in those situations.

Having said that, it still sounds intriging. Come to think of it, I would try an Alfine + FD+double/bash first to see if the Alfine could handle the occasional Whistler run. With decent suspension travel, large volume tire, and finesse (is there such a thing at Whistler?) it might be strong enough. Durability is fixed by replacing it every year or two


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## montclairbobbyb (Aug 4, 2003)

*Alfine Hub - Initial Thoughts*

I laced an Alfine 8 speed hub to a Stans ZTR Flow rim (36 hole) and installed it on my Surly Karate Monkey (otherwise a rigid SS). The nice part is that I can switch between SS and 1x8 in 5 minutes.

I took it out for its first trail test tonight. I liked it, but was surprised by 2 discoveries: First, the Alfine granny gear is not a true granny gear... at least nothing like granny on my Niner MCR. Second, despite what I've read, I could NOT comfortably shift under load... The hub gave me feedback (ie noise, slight crunching, etc) which tells me I probably COULD shift under load; however it doesn't at all feel reassuring...

Still, I was pleasantly surprised by the weight of the hub... It's heavy (relatively speaking), but lighter than the SRAM (and certainly the Rohloff), and I really didn't feel it when I was pedalling it...

I also really like the shifting.... extremely smooth, and the drivetrain runs really quietly. This is in sharp contrast to my SRAM S7 and P5 hubs (which are noisier). The Alfine is really in a class by itself (in my opinion).

So far I CAN conclude:

The Alfine DOES perform offroad. During tough climbs I never felt as though I was stomping on the internals of the hub. It felt solid.
The Alfine DOES NOT shift well under load; you need to pedal lightly to allow the shift to occur
Durability? Only time will tell
The Alfine is not unreasonably weighty... but it's not lightweight
The Nexus Grip Shifter functions flawlessly.
Installing the Alfine hub was easier than expected. It's an extremely well-designed hub, in my opinion.

Overall... I LIKE IT!!

Peace,
BB


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

montclairbobbyb said:


> So far I CAN conclude:
> 
> The Alfine DOES perform offroad. During tough climbs I never felt as though I was stomping on the internals of the hub. It felt solid.
> The Alfine DOES NOT shift well under load; you need to pedal lightly to allow the shift to occur
> ...


I've been running an Alfine on my Monocog (http://monumentallyafflicted.blogspot.com/2009/03/what-do-we-have-here-my-planned-race.html) for a couple weeks now and have the same overall feelings. The slight hesitation/crunch when shifting under load has taught me to pedal lightly, also. I'm not sure if it would hurt the hub to shift under heavy load, but I don't really wanna find out!


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

I’ve had the Alfine for 6months and my experience is that if you’re really pedalling hard it will make a bit of a grinding/rattling noise and either take a long time to shift or not shift at all which is better than my experiences with many other IGH‘s that just lock up completely.

I’d rather have a gearing system where I have to ease off to shift than have a derailleur gearing system where I can’t shift when not pedalling, in other words the advantages outweigh the disadvantages for me.

My Alfine is still working great BTW people! :thumbsup:


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## F5000sl (Aug 8, 2003)

I haven't used any of the internal hubs offroad yet(besides one two mile test of it), but I have logged in a few 100 miles on a Nexus since last Sept. on my commuter.

I tend to agree that it can be clunky at times, but what causes that is not really shifting under load, but rather shifting quickly under load. 

I found that you simply can't be as "ham-fisted" as you might be on a standard shifter/derailleur setup. At least that has been my on going understanding as I can shift uphills just fine on the road as long as I don't try to skip a few gears at once by ripping through them.


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## montclairbobbyb (Aug 4, 2003)

*Alfine Hub - MTB?*

You're right. You could easily make the same observation about grinding through derailleurs under load... I have no problem being delicate during my shifts...Glad to hear others are riding their Alfines off-road... Keep reporting back... IG hubs show alot of great potential, and it would be great to see a bonafide, reasonably-priced, lighter and less cumbersome alternative. (No disrespect to the industrial-strength gold standard Rohloff, but we can't all afford Range Rovers, Rolexes and Rohloffs).

Peace,
BB


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I have been running my Alfine offroad since last October, and have the same general experience as the last few reviews. It does not like to be shifted under heavy load, but then again, niether does a der. system. I usually end up doing one of 2 things in the event I shift too late and get hesitation. If it won't stop me, I ease off the pedals briefly and the shift completes, or if it is too steep that easing up on the pedals will stop me, I quickly shift back up to keep it in the original gear and grunt up the hill.

As Montclairbobbyb said, just slapping an Alfine hub with you normal SS gearing will not give a true granny gear like a 27 speed setup. On the Alfine, 5th gear is 1:1, so you have 4 lower gears which are plenty for me. I am currently running 34:24 with my Alfine so have pretty low gear, but obviously not as low as a 27 speed drivetrain. 34:24 is also my prefered SS gear for my hilly rides, so with my setup I can go between SS and Alfine in 5 minutes.

Mark


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## UN-COG-KNEE-TOE (Mar 7, 2008)

*24t Alfine COG*



bikeny said:


> pping an Alfine hub with you normal SS gearing will not give a true granny gear like a 27 speed setup. On the Alfine, 5th gear is 1:1, so you have 4 lower gears which are plenty for me. I am currently running 34:24 with my Alfine so have pretty low gear, but obviously not as low as a 27 speed drivetrain. 34:24 is also my prefered SS gear for my hilly rides, so with my setup I can go between SS and Alfine in 5 minutes.
> 
> Mark


...just wondering where you found a 24t Cog for your Alfine? ..thanks!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

UN-COG-KNEE-TOE said:


> ...just wondering where you found a 24t Cog for your Alfine? ..thanks!


It took a while to find the 24t cog, but it was worth it! I ended up ordering it from SJS Cycles in the UK, but it is branded SRAM, go figure! They are cheap, so I ordered 2, and shipping was very reasonable. Here is the link:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-SRAM-Hub-Gear-Sprocket-fits-Sram-and-Shimano-Hub-Gears-2825.htm

Mark


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## McFlyMpls (Jan 10, 2008)

Here's a bar end shifter made for the Nexus/Alfine hubs, made by Jtek:
http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/2009/01/20/bar-end-shifter-for-shimano-nexus-alfine/

I'm hoping to build up a Cross Check or Handsome Devil with a Alfine hub pretty soon. I think I'll give the Jtek a shot.


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## 20.100 FR (Jan 13, 2004)

Just received my alfine (laced to Flow rims)
I was wondering how to setup the hub for the rear facing horizontal dropouts.
Shall i use a black and silver or silver and white ?


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

For horizontal dropouts you need the 6R/6L non turn washers.


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

*X-post from Internal Geared Hubs*

As I'm having my local shop build up an Alfine/Flow rear wheel for my Soma Juice I thought I'd work myself up a gear chart. Estimated Shimano Alfine IGH gear chart using 32x22 chainring/cog, 29 inch tire, 175 mm crankset.



Gear Inch Ratios were figured into gear inches in white above using Sheldon Brown's Site. 
The equivalent cog sizes were determined in yellow. Of course we all know there is no such thing as a 13.63 cog, nor any of the other fractioned cog sizes but it gives a good thought to perceived effort especially when gear inch ratio comes to mind.

Total Gear Ratio Difference 3.07
Gear Ratio 1: 0.527, Gear Inches 22.2, Equivilent cog size 41.8 or 22chainring x 29cog
Gear Ratio 2: 0.644, Gear Inches 27.2, Equivilent cog size 34.1
Gear Ratio 3: 0.748, Gear Inches 31.6, Equivilent cog size 29.4
Gear Ratio 4: 0.851, Gear Inches 35.9, Equivilent cog size 25.85
Gear Ratio 5: 1.0, Gear Inches 42.2, Equivilent cog size 22
Gear Ratio 6: 1.223 Gear Inches 51.6, Equivilent cog size 18
Gear Ratio 7: 1.419 Gear Inches 59.9, Equivilent cog size 15.5
Gear Ratio 8: 1.615 Gear Inches 68.1, Equivilent cog size 13.63


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## matty1802 (Jan 17, 2008)

Hi guys just thought i'd post a some pics of my new Genesis iO ID with the Alfine Hub, man this thing is sweet, in my opinion its the way forward, my friend has been riding the Alfine hub through the British winter and he said it rocks had no problems whatsoever.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

I probably missed it, but where is there a gearing calculator for the Alfine? And what size rear cogs are available?


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## biketuna (Mar 28, 2008)

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/shimano-nexus.html

everything is on this page


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## ratty2k (Oct 29, 2007)

Still just got a collection of parts.... hub is here (ages ago) rims arrived today- although I may swap them yet.. Seen some nice white Arch rims I may go for instead... (over the DT Swiss ones I have now...) Still waiting on my frame, heard they have been air freighted into the country this week, so am hoping I get it early next week and can get it built in time for the weekend... Series of firsts gonna happen- first time fully rigid on a 29er and the IGH thing as well....


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

biketuna said:


> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/shimano-nexus.html


Thanks. I shoulda known it would be there. :thumbsup:

For anyone that cares to search for this answer...

Comparing a 36x16 Rohloff Speedhub, and Alfine with 32x23 gear will result in about 2nd through 11th gears on the Speedhub. I thought that was useful info (at least to me).


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

ratty2k said:


> Still waiting on my frame, heard they have been air freighted into the country this week, so am hoping I get it early next week and can get it built in time for the weekend...


Sam on Twitter today:

"pre-ordered frames arrived here this morning, will be getting them out as fast as possible. I hope at least some tomorrow."

Looking forward to seeing your build! :thumbsup:


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## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

*waiting....*

Ratty, hope you get your frame soon. In my case it was the hub I was waiting on. I've been riding my El Mar for 2.5 weeks so far and I love it more everyday. I too was a 29er rigid virgin.....

The rigid fork will grow on you, just let a bunch of air out of the tire. I hated the fork at first, now I think I'll keep it. In 2.5 weeks of riding I'm already faster than my 26er with front suspension. The whole 29er thing feels weird weird weird at first, especially the Alfine.

I don't know how steep your climbs are where you ride but if you never use your granny don't gear your Alfine low. I'm running 32-20 on mine and low gear is considerably easier than the 34 front-32 rear (the easiest gear I normally use) that I run on my 26'" bike. 32-20 Alfine on a 29er still gives you enough gears to ride the thing on the road to the trail head.

Drew


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## ratty2k (Oct 29, 2007)

Ohh, all exited now! Bounce, bounce, bounce! Tigger doncha know!


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## 20.100 FR (Jan 13, 2004)

Schmucker said:


> For horizontal dropouts you need the 6R/6L non turn washers.


So i eventually succeded in mounting the cog ring ! at last !

But now i reallised that i don't have the good washers. I have lony the yellow and green, and need the ones schmucker advised.
Do you know where i can find them ?
Somebody wana trade ?


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## montclairbobbyb (Aug 4, 2003)

*Washers for Alfine*

My Alfine came with 4 washers; odd that yours didn't. For horizontal dropouts, you'll need the white and silver non-turn washers. You should be able to order these through your Shimano dealer, although you may have to order an entire set of the washers.

Good luck.
BB


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## 20.100 FR (Jan 13, 2004)

So ir ordered the good washers, and here is the result !


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## ecoastjohn (Mar 9, 2008)

Can you mount an Alfine on dual suspension Racer-X without using a chain tensioner?


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

ecoastjohn said:


> Can you mount an Alfine on dual suspension Racer-X without using a chain tensioner?


No. Very few suspension bikes have zero chain growth.


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## lamparito (Feb 22, 2009)

i planned to go the Rolhoff way (if found at a reasonable price) or Alfine way for my newly adquired Cannondale killer V frame. Can i mount them without tensioners for light mtb rides and the road? i assume that for serious mtb the answer is no, but want to know for a lighter use


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## montclairbobbyb (Aug 4, 2003)

I'm sure others would agree... it's still a bad idea... you're likely to at best throw your chain, or at worst, snap it. You could always weld your swingarm so it doesn't move... 

What's your aversion to using a chain-tensioner? For a full-sus, you simply NEED it. 
In fact, buy the Alfine (instead of the Rohloff), and with the $ you save, pick yourself up an entire hardtail with its own Alfine hub (and NO chain tensioner)... how cool is that?

Peace,
BB


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## lamparito (Feb 22, 2009)

the cannondale "killer V" is a hardtail ( but with standar dropouts) maybe you were thinking about the "super V".

For a full suspension i agree with you, it is just that for a hardtail i would prefer to have the simpliest and cleanest option and do not know if this is posible with traditional dropouts without tensioners.


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## bushrangermtb (Jan 7, 2009)

I know I'm a bit late on the uptake of the alfine.... but just in case someone like me is new to the internal rear hub setup and looking at gear ratios... check out this excellent calculator.. check out the ratios for the alfine 11spd 

http://www.gear-calculator.com/#KB=32&RZ=19&GR=SNI8&KB2=32&RZ2=11,13,15,17,19,21,23,26,30,34&GT2=DERS&TF=85&UF=2075&SL=2


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

nice gear calculator....you should check the rohloff


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## cesco456 (Mar 7, 2012)

Hi,
Would just like to say hello to the mtbr community as a newly joined member! I am new to the real mountain biking scene, as I have previously been more involved with bmx as a kid and more recently as a road bike builder and user (especially classic 50's and 60's lightweights). 
My first proper mountain bike ride out with my cousins (who are serious mountain bikers) over the South Downs last Summer changed all that forever! My current project is to build up a nicolai helius cc frame with an alfine 8 speed to get up and running off road again as soon as possible... and perhaps at a later stage upgrade to a rohloff speedhub. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who is running a full sus frame with internal gear hubs!
Thanks
Cesco


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