# What are your stories with range good or bad?



## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Did Skypark in Santa's Village, CA. Skypark bike park is a mellow climb up and several DH runs you can choose to go down. Here are my stats for Skypark: I weigh 205lbs, Distance 20 miles, 4,284 elevation and ride time 3.5hrs. I'm impressed with the range this Tazer can do on a 504wh battery. I climbed in ECO and used Boost for the DH. My last climb up, the battery indicator showed the last bar in RED and only ECO was available for the up and DH. Got down to the bottom, last bar now blinking and no more assist available to use. This is the 1st time I've used my entire battery up:thumbsup:! Surprised at how quickly the last bar went. But what an awesome day! 

What are your stories with range good or bad?


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

Commuting at 18mph 40 miles total for the week on my Yamaha PW-SE bike with 400 wH battery I'll usually use 3/4 of the battery. I typically ride in ECO mode (100 percent assist) on the way to work and STANDARD (190 percent assist) on the way home.

Trail riding, 20 miles with 7 of that on pavement I'll usually use about half a battery but not much elevation gain, around 1000 feet. On pavement I'll use STANDARD mode but once on the trail but mostly ECO, except on steep sections or boring sustained grades.

I burned up 93 percent of my battery on a 22mile ride with 2200 feet elevation gain in an OHV area with steep (15-24 percent grade) climbs and lots of riding in loose washes.

Generally, I've been very pleased with the range of my eBike; it's usually more than I need.


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## kaleidopete (Feb 7, 2015)

My 2019 Trek Powerfly 7 plus I ride every day for about two hours on trails and road. 
I do about twelve miles every day and usually use mtb mode where the bike decides what it needs. I don't want to run the battery out, so I get about three days and still have battery left and I charge it long before it runs dry. I would guess I'd get 45 to 55 miles per charge.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I have a Yamaha 2017 model PW and 500Wh seems enough for me.
I read somewhere that the first 10% supplies more energy than the last. 
I am curious to know if a system offers more range with the same battery.
I am new to Ebikes.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

"I read somewhere that the first 10% supplies more energy than the last."

Actually the energy level, or voltage that is the amount of energy available, is constantly dropping and rebounding via the loss of voltage while under power and how it ramps back up when the assist is not activated. If displays had actual voltage readouts instead of the typical stupid bar type you would see this readily. That is why it is not correct to assume that the last half of your battery will provide the same mileage as the first half which it seems many do when they talk in percentages rather than actual wh's used. 

Range is totally dependent on YOU and your eBike and the terrain you ride on and getting to know what the limits are. If you feel you are getting good range for your needs then you have the right size battery. If you are experiencing bad range then get a bigger battery or another of the same size to increase available wh's. 

The idea of having 3 batteries of different wh ratings makes alot of sense. If you had 300, 500 and 700wh batteries that fit the same dock you would be covered for just about any situation including 24hr racing as you could be charging all the time or ride a century carrying all three.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

So on 10% of my rides, I run out of battery on the way back to the house. Usually 2-3 miles of flat pavement since I always extend my rides and end up draining the whole battery.

I use the Pivot Di2 with Shimano and their battery management is sooo bad, especially with one bar of batter left (out of 5). One moment you have the bar, and the next it's gone. Sometimes my LCD says 0 bars and my battery says one bar. You can turn it off and on and it'll get the bar back sometimes.

Luckily it's Shimano so virtually no drag when pedaling home on flat ground.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Bigwheel said:


> "I read somewhere that the first 10% supplies more energy than the last."
> 
> Actually the energy level, or voltage that is the amount of energy available, is constantly dropping and rebounding via the loss of voltage while under power and how it ramps back up when the assist is not activated. If displays had actual voltage readouts instead of the typical stupid bar type you would see this readily. That is why it is not correct to assume that the last half of your battery will provide the same mileage as the first half which it seems many do when they talk in percentages rather than actual wh's used.
> 
> The idea of having 3 batteries of different wh ratings makes alot of sense. If you had 300, 500 and 700wh batteries that fit the same dock you would be covered for just about any situation including 24hr racing as you could be charging all the time or ride a century carrying all three.


I've noticed in the area I ride the most, in eco 1st bar takes about 5.5miles and then the 2nd close to that, then like you say it seems to get less. I always thought the trail just got harder. 
3 batteries of those wh would be pretty cool! 


fc said:


> So on 10% of my rides, I run out of battery on the way back to the house. Usually 2-3 miles of flat pavement since I always extend my rides and end up draining the whole battery.
> 
> I use the Pivot Di2 with Shimano and their battery management is sooo bad, especially with one bar of batter left (out of 5). One moment you have the bar, and the next it's gone. Sometimes my LCD says 0 bars and my battery says one bar. You can turn it off and on and it'll get the bar back sometimes.
> 
> Luckily it's Shimano so virtually no drag when pedaling home on flat ground.


That's exactly what happened at Skypark, crazy how quickly that last bar went!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

So here's my story and I'm sticking to it. I was on a 3 hour ebike ride with two buddies and were just about done. 2 bars out of five left and I said "head back to the car." But then buddy hadn't done this trail and convinced me to us to go down this 1000 foot drop trail.

The climb back is a twisty mountain road 4 miles in a 1000 feet and I figured it would be doable. Getting dark so no time to argue.

Then we got lost a couple times! Trail was rad but then I sensed the urgency of the situation with the car parked on top of the hill. Both riders had less battery than my one bar so told them to descend downtown and wait for me there.

So I rallied up the mountain road in 'Eco' mode, giving everything I had. 2 miles to go and 500 feet to climb, the battery died. I turned it off and on several times but nothing. By now it was pitch black in the woods so I pedaled up on a mission. Hot rods were driving up this mountain road on this witching hour and they were wayyy to close to me. I figured they could not see me so I would ride way on the shoulder when I heard a vehicle. But then sometimes there was no shoulder.

My bright idea was to put my iphone in strobe mode (app) and face it backwards. I then put it on my fanny pack with the light facing out. Now cars were giving me plenty of room and I felt soo much better. It was rally time and I set hillclimb records with that 54 lb bike.

At the top, it turns out two other friends saw my vehicle and were waiting for me!! I chugged their beer and put down two brownies and I was on my way. That was crazy!!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

fc said:


> So here's my story and I'm sticking to it. I was on a 3 hour ebike ride with two buddies and were just about done. 2 bars out of five left and I said "head back to the car." But then buddy hadn't done this trail and convinced me to us to go down this 1000 foot drop trail.
> 
> The climb back is a twisty mountain road 4 miles in a 1000 feet and I figured it would be doable. Getting dark so no time to argue.
> 
> ...


That is the reason i switched my cassette for an extra 6 teeth.
Most Ebikes are not geared for climbing.
Tougher gearing + heavier bike = problems waiting to happen.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

33red said:


> That is the reason i switched my cassette for an extra 6 teeth.
> Most Ebikes are not geared for climbing.
> Tougher gearing + heavier bike = problems waiting to happen.


So true. Especially the Levo with its 11-speed. 42 tooth i think.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

fc said:


> So true. Especially the Levo with its 11-speed. 42 tooth i think.


Bosch is worst. With their 2.5X their front ring is huge.
I am glad they will switch because they were a no-no for someone like me who enjoys climbing.


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## Doug_ID (Feb 22, 2009)

I have the Trek powerfly (bosch) with 500 wh battery and a bulls evo 29er hardtail (brose) with supposedly a 650 wh battery (tmz I think). I ride in eco almost exclusively and get similar range on both bikes. I get a bit over 40-45 miles and aprox 4500ft of climbing on a full charge. I really doubt the advertised 650 wh battery is actually 650 wh. I do much prefer the brose motor to the bosch though.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Doug_ID said:


> I have the Trek powerfly (bosch) with 500 wh battery and a bulls evo 29er hardtail (brose) with supposedly a 650 wh battery (tmz I think). I ride in eco almost exclusively and get similar range on both bikes. I get a bit over 40-45 miles and aprox 4500ft of climbing on a full charge. I really doubt the advertised 650 wh battery is actually 650 wh. I do much prefer the brose motor to the bosch though.


Yeah, doesn't sound right. You should get almost 30% more range on 650wh hardtail


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## Doug_ID (Feb 22, 2009)

I suppose it could be that the bulls eco mode is higher assist than the bosch. Hard for me to tell and bulls is not the best for providing a lot of details about their bikes.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Doug_ID said:


> I suppose it could be that the bulls eco mode is higher assist than the bosch. Hard for me to tell and bulls is not the best for providing a lot of details about their bikes.


I do not know about that brand but most can be adjusted pre sale and post sale.
Did you get it new? 
My Yamaha PW 2017 they simply copied from the website for France so it said the max was 25 km/h(wich is their legal max but it is 32(20mph) wich is the legal max where i bought it and ride it.
If my memory is good the Shimano 7000 and 8000 are set at 80% or 90% forever for lower assist and the others might be modified.
From my 4 level the lowest is 50% wich is ridiculous for someone in shape so i will ask my LBS to set it at 80%.


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## Doug_ID (Feb 22, 2009)

I live in small town idaho so purchased the bike new on-line and had it shipped to me. I believe Brose lets bike makers pretty much do what they want with their motors. As far as I know there is no way for me to adjust the power levels with the bulls setup. No worries as its fine as it is. The nice thing with the brose is it pedals like a normal (heavy) bike when power is off.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Doug_ID said:


> I live in small town idaho so purchased the bike new on-line and had it shipped to me. I believe Brose lets bike makers pretty much do what they want with their motors. As far as I know there is no way for me to adjust the power levels with the bulls setup. No worries as its fine as it is. The nice thing with the brose is it pedals like a normal (heavy) bike when power is off.


Thanks for your input. I am going to a Shimano demo and soon a Brose but from what i am reading Brose might be my next Ebike.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Doug_ID said:


> I live in small town idaho so purchased the bike new on-line and had it shipped to me. I believe Brose lets bike makers pretty much do what they want with their motors. As far as I know there is no way for me to adjust the power levels with the bulls setup. No worries as its fine as it is. The nice thing with the brose is it pedals like a normal (heavy) bike when power is off.


Brose lets manufacturers make their own batteries. Bulls made their own battery and makes their own claims about WH. It sounds like it's got bad spec. They do have inaccurate spec with all their mtbs, claiming 108 miles of range. They know it's wrong as I've told them but they won't change it.

Brose has a lot of drag when the motor is off, like they all do... except Shimano which has a clutch and releases the motor.


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## Doug_ID (Feb 22, 2009)

Yea it would not surprise me if the stated wh on the bulls battery is not really what you get. Brose feels fine to me with power off.......at least compared to the bosch which feels like cranking through taffy.


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## Doug_ID (Feb 22, 2009)

33red said:


> Thanks for your input. I am going to a Shimano demo and soon a Brose but from what i am reading Brose might be my next Ebike.


cool.... I have never had a chance to try the shimano motors. The only negative thing I have heard is that they are on the noisy side. That is another nice thing about the brose..........so quiet.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Doug_ID said:


> cool.... I have never had a chance to try the shimano motors. The only negative thing I have heard is that they are on the noisy side. That is another nice thing about the brose..........so quiet.


They are the loudest of all. Not too bad but the other motors are so quiet. You won't be sneaking up on anyone for sure.

Specialized and Brose are very quiet at low power levels. This is due in part to the belt drive. When you get cranking at the highest levels, it gets much louder for sure.

Bosch cx line from what I remember is a hair louder than Brose.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Well i had a nice demo Norco bikes. 1 hour on a small, 1 hour on a med both were Shimano 8000. I kind of liked the smooth delivery, but with trails that were all new to me and a wide bar i spent a lot of time on econo. Even that level of assist is noisy. It was a nice bike 150 mm FS that was fun with 27.5x2.6, 12S 32, 11-50. The retail price 8,000$ canadian, carbon frame. If in a year or 2 the noise goes down that value might drop so in my opinion nice bike that would be great with less noise and a reasonable price.


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## b1rdie (Mar 11, 2011)

I got 27 miles and 4400 ft on a full shimano battery with the canyon spectral.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

b1rdie said:


> I got 27 miles and 4400 ft on a full shimano battery with the canyon spectral.


Are you listing this as a positive or a negative?
How long did it take you?


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## b1rdie (Mar 11, 2011)

https://strava.app.link/MJE6D101SX

It was the first ride i spent the full battery, so cant tell if it is good or bad performance wise but am very satisfied with this range, it took me 2:45 hours moving.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

b1rdie said:


> I got 27 miles and 4400 ft on a full shimano battery with the canyon spectral.


This information isn't useful without a comment about power mode (eco, trail, or boost)


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## Ted (Jan 29, 2004)

A couple of days ago I rode my 2019 S-Works Levo for 40 miles and 6900 feet. At the end I had 18% left of the 700WH battery. I had nearly 0% left of my internal battery. I ride mostly in eco. I expect as the battery ages it's capacity will decline so I am glad I have the 700.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

b1rdie said:


> I got 27 miles and 4400 ft on a full shimano battery with the canyon spectral.


4400 ft, I'd consider that pretty good! What mode were you in the most and what do you weigh?


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Ted said:


> A couple of days ago I rode my 2019 S-Works Levo for 40 miles and 6900 feet. At the end I had 18% left of the 700WH battery. I had nearly 0% left of my internal battery. I ride mostly in eco. I expect as the battery ages it's capacity will decline so I am glad I have the 700.


That's impressive! What do you weigh and was this mostly off-road riding?


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## b1rdie (Mar 11, 2011)

The climbing was mostly fire roads, steep but not technical, patience is my strength when climbing, so I used the largest 50 teeth cog a lot. Mostly on eco mode 80% only 5% on boost since I cannot feel much difference from trail mode to boost. I could keep cadence above 80 rpm most of the time and used boost mode only when it dropped bellow 65 rpm. I weight 84 kilos and am 59 years young.


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## Ted (Jan 29, 2004)

"That’s impressive! What do you weigh and was this mostly off-road riding?"

I weigh about 190 ready to ride. The ride was all off road except for a short road bit at the beginning and end. For those in the Bay Area the ride was in Henry Coe from Hunting Hollow to Mississippi Lake and back.


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

Range varies on every ride because of the terrain and how much effort or assist I choose, however now I carry a spare battery the range stress has gone and I love how even when my Purion display shows 0 range, I still get assist for another mile even climbing, it's a smile inducing bonus every time, (though I'm smiling most of the ride and sometimes laughing out loud after I've just managed to keep pedaling up either a ridiculous incline or down a extremely rocky slope). :thumbsup:


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Does someone has the link to a previous post to a thread on this subject?


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## stiksandstones (Oct 7, 2004)

Did a long ride on my levo expert sunday, so cal heat. Started ride at about 90% (I try to never charge it to 100% or store it charged)....did 35 miles, 8k feet of climbing, 90 degrees, couple steep climbs and put in turbo for those steep climbs, but mostly was in eco and middle mode- Finished the ride with 30%, was kind of blown away with the capability. I've owned some other bikes and was always having to stress with long rides. 
Great bike-nothing else compares in terms of range, weight, geo, spec.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

stiksandstones said:


> Did a long ride on my levo expert sunday, so cal heat. Started ride at about 90% (I try to never charge it to 100% or store it charged)....did 35 miles, 8k feet of climbing, 90 degrees, couple steep climbs and put in turbo for those steep climbs, but mostly was in eco and middle mode- Finished the ride with 30%, was kind of blown away with the capability. I've owned some other bikes and was always having to stress with long rides.
> Great bike-nothing else compares in terms of range, weight, geo, spec.


I use time for range, how much time?


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

stiksandstones said:


> Did a long ride on my levo expert sunday, so cal heat. Started ride at about 90% (I try to never charge it to 100% or store it charged)....did 35 miles, 8k feet of climbing, 90 degrees, couple steep climbs and put in turbo for those steep climbs, but mostly was in eco and middle mode- Finished the ride with 30%, was kind of blown away with the capability. I've owned some other bikes and was always having to stress with long rides.
> Great bike-nothing else compares in terms of range, weight, geo, spec.


That's impressive range with some serious elevation, especially with only a 90% charge! I bet you don't weigh much and have a good solid base fitness?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## stiksandstones (Oct 7, 2004)

33red said:


> I use time for range, how much time?


Time is subjective, what if you climbed in turbo for an hour straight? probably smoke the battery. That being said, I think I was out a little over 4 hrs


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

stiksandstones said:


> Time is subjective, what if you climbed in turbo for an hour straight? probably smoke the battery. That being said, I think I was out a little over 4 hrs


Thanks. I know many factors count but i have no clue about elevation etc.. i only have an 8 years old laptop and a 5$ watch.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Here’ a bad story! At Lake Tahoe a few weeks ago, recovering from a cold, so had all my assist modes higher than normal! Was supposed to do about 2hrs, 18 to 20 mile range ride. We got lost, 4hrs and 30 miles later, battery died around 3hrs 15mins. 

I have no doubt, had I’d known how long we’d be, the bike could have easily made this with lower power assist.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

We demoed Levo Comps for the last four days. We did 4 of our biggest local rides. I used eco the most I could. I got 16 miles with 4000 ft of vert two days and had a bar left. Then 14 miles with 5100 ft of vert another day with no power left. The biggest ride was 33 miles with about 5000 vert with no power left. We all weigh about 180-200 and alpine riding. 

From what Ive read it sounds like 500wh batteries get about 5000 vert and 700wh batters get about 7000 with miles.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

To post up above about dropping range with battery age. 
I do have something to add as a possibility. I was having the same issue with a 700 wh battery. I would get lots of voltage sag and the battery was not lasting anywhere near what it did when it was new. The number of charges on the battery was between 225 and 250 recharges. 
To make a long story short, after much reading in technical battery forums, the problem was that my charger was not putting out enough voltage to fully charge the battery to 100% for equalization. Discussions centered around the fact that cells needed to reach 4.18 volts each out of 4.2 volts in order to equalize. That is the battery must reach 99.5% before equalization of cells takes place. My 52 volt charger was delivering 58.3 volts and full charge is 58.8 volts or 99.1%. 
I adjusted the voltage output on the charger to 58.8 volts with a sensitive meter and charged the battery to full charge. I monitored the charging with a Kill-O-Watt meter and there was a pause between 40 watts and 28 watts where I assume the equalization took place. 
Also in those articles they mention that leaving the battery at 100% charge will damage the battery so you need to pull power from the battery to drop the voltage down to about 95% for your next ride. I rode 3 miles to accomplish that. 
On my next long ride the battery was performing like it was new again with low voltage sag and lots of range. 
I would not have believed it had I not tried it.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Still amazed at the range I can get out of my Tazer & the 500wh battery. My recent ride was just over 3hrs, 26.5 miles and 4,330 climbing. One bar remaining. 

I use Emaxx software to customize ECO, Trail and Boost. 
ECO = 40% 
Trail = 50%
Boost = 90%

I think stock is
ECO = 60%
Trail = 90%
Boost = 200%


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

I enjoy the challenge of being on a new ride in strange country, and guessing (based on experience) if I can go to the top of the mountain or wherever, and still have plenty or at least enough battery left. I don't view it, range anxiety, as a drawback, any more then I view running out of water as a deal breaker. It's all part of the fun of pulling off a great ride and knowing your needs and what the equipment can put out. I STILL am consistently surprised and impressed by how well my batteries hang in there, 3 bikes, 4 batteries. Make that 5 batteries. 59 AH total, all 52 volt. Just my 17 AH main rider gives me all the fun I usually can handle, I wear out before it does.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

If you are running out of juice then you need to reconsider your battery selection. Its always better to have some juice left over on your commute because then your battery will last longer and you wont have range anxiety. Shallower drains are better then complete drains when it comes to the battery. I always build the biggest battery that can fit and I can afford.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Is there a larger battery option for the Shimano E-8000 system?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

andytiedye said:


> Is there a larger battery option for the Shimano E-8000 system?


Lots of batteries are similar/interchangeable. It is more about the mounting/fitting.
What is your LBS saying?
On what year, bike model would it have to fit?
Maybe just buy a used to carry?


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

I have used bags and bags and rolls and rolls of zip ties and duct tape for various mounting positions of a battery pack.

Not sure about the LBS servicing ebikes not sold from their store, or even if they touch ebikes brands they dont sell. Or for that matter, if LBS take into consideration the age of the ebike.

As for buying a used battery, no, just no. You have no idea what you are buying, how that battery has been treated, how its been stored. Its just wrong on so many levels.

Always buy a battery from a reputable supplier whether it be complete packs, or individual cells to make a pack yourself.

The battery is the most expensive part of an ebike. Then its the motor, then the controller.



33red said:


> Lots of batteries are similar/interchangeable. It is more about the mounting/fitting.
> What is your LBS saying?
> On what year, bike model would it have to fit?
> Maybe just buy a used to carry?


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## b1rdie (Mar 11, 2011)

Last week I went for a ride carrying a spare shimano batterie. I wanted to feel if the weight of a backpack would bother too much. Well it was ok on this three hour ride using lots of trail and boost modes, the second bat had still lots of juice when I decided to return because my upper body got wasted.


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