# Let's See Your 650B Vintage Mountain Bikes



## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

So, I'm sure you guys have talked about this to death in the last year but I did a search in this forum and found a thread on somebody's Bontrager SS conversion but I was wondering if anybody else has converted their vintage MTB and if so any pictures? I'm thinking that there would be some issues with clearances, BBs, brake reaches, etc., but aside from that, has anybody converted their vintage bike(s)?

Any comments regarding how differently your bike rides before and after? I guess the difference could be minimal and not worth the effort. But who knows, it could be interesting too. Actually, it could be horrible too...

Oh yeah, I know there's a separate forum for 650Bs but I was specifically wondering about vintage mountain bikes. I guess reading this blog written by Jill Hamilton piqued my fascination but perhaps _vintage_ and _650B_ doesn't belong side by side. (She also blogged later about a steel 650B SS prototype. Decidedly not vintage but who here doesn't like steel? )


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

sfgirlonbike said:


> but perhaps _vintage_ and _650B_ doesn't belong side by side.


sure it does. the two go way back to the beginning of mtbs. there just werent very many made and if it werent for the Russians, all mtbs today might have been 650b. more to come later.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Well it'll be hard to do since the only vintage "mtb" that'll readily accept a 650B in the frame with rim brakes is a GT Tachyon (700D is 3mm larger diameter than 650B, so the brake tracks are virtually the same spot), you're left to trying to stuff them into disc brake compatible frames. Which pretty much limits you to a Mountain Cycles San Andreas (there's nowhere near enough room in an Amp swingarm for one, hell they have a hard time taking more than a 26 x 2.1).


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Well it'll be hard to do since the only vintage "mtb" that'll readily accept a 650B in the frame with rim brakes is a GT Tachyon (700D is 3mm larger diameter than 650B, so the brake tracks are virtually the same spot),


Ritchey and Raleigh both made 650b moutain bikes in the early 1980's. So there are a few out there. I'd love to see pics.


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## 82Sidewinder (Jun 28, 2006)

laffeaux said:


> Ritchey and Raleigh both made 650b moutain bikes in the early 1980's. So there are a few out there. I'd love to see pics.


Schwinn used the 650b size as well in the 80's, but unfortunately, I believe it was only on low end models like the Mirada. I didn't know Ritchey used the size. I'd love to see pics too.:thumbsup:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

*Don't forget Merz*

From your wonderful site we have this 1982 write-up on some early mtbs. If you go to the end of the article you will see a bike by Merz and a bike called the Ritchey Competition, both of which have the 650b rims with Nokian Hakkepelitta tires. These were considered more racy than the standard 26" mtb. The Merz was used at the Cyclocross Nationals and Ritchey called his the Competition. The Nokian tires are about a 1.8" wide tire and are pretty aggressive. I would say more aggressive than the Snakebelly which was the other tire then.

https://oldmountainbikes.com/catalogs/ritchey/articles/b_jun-82/index.html

Tom Ritchey originally used the 650b size because in the late 70s there were no aluminum 26" rims. He made 12 bikes using the lightweight euro rims and shaved off some serious weight, but shortly thereafter Araya produced an aluminum rim sort of killing off the need for 650b and its hard to get Finnish tires.

I have one of the Ritcheys and a Merz as well, but I havent gone to pick the latter up yet. Hopefully it's still there.  Merz later went on from making super nice frames to getting hired by Specialized to help with their early mtbs and road frames. Here's a pic of an ealry Merz (not 650B):



And the Raleigh Tamarack you mentioned was more mid-80s, after the 26" size had already been established. The 650b size was used at that point to be more of a Euro-style touring/commuter bike.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Here's a pic of an ealry Merz (not 650B):


Don't let those hipster fixie dudes see that bar...


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ssmike said:


> Don't let those hipster fixie dudes see that bar...


haha. very true. And I forgot to give credit where credit is due - I have you to thank for some of that juicy 650b info. 

that bar is actually a stem. or it will be...


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## GrumpyOne (Jan 7, 2004)

The Bontrager SS would be mine and the only reason it worked was because of the horizontal "track ends". I had to move the wheel all the way back for it to work. A 650b wheel doesn't even come close to fitting in my vertical dropout Bontrager. Not enough tire clearance and there's no good way to get the brake pads up high enough.

As far as the ride goes, I like it. I've been riding 700c wheeled (29er) bikes exclusively for the last 3+ years. The 650b wheels have some of the big wheel traits (climbing and cornering traction etc.) that I like without wrecking the handling of the Bontrager. It worked out really well.

jw



sfgirlonbike said:


> So, I'm sure you guys have talked about this to death in the last year but I did a search in this forum and found a thread on somebody's Bontrager SS conversion but I was wondering if anybody else has converted their vintage MTB and if so any pictures? I'm thinking that there would be some issues with clearances, BBs, brake reaches, etc., but aside from that, has anybody converted their vintage bike(s)?
> 
> Any comments regarding how differently your bike rides before and after? I guess the difference could be minimal and not worth the effort. But who knows, it could be interesting too. Actually, it could be horrible too...
> 
> Oh yeah, I know there's a separate forum for 650Bs but I was specifically wondering about vintage mountain bikes. I guess reading this blog written by Jill Hamilton piqued my fascination but perhaps _vintage_ and _650B_ doesn't belong side by side. (She also blogged later about a steel 650B SS prototype. Decidedly not vintage but who here doesn't like steel? )


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## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

How would you get brakes to work on 650B bike originally intended for 26" wheels?

If you had the clearances otherwise.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Paul's Moto Lite, Avid Tri-align cantis?


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Onza HO's would work also, but the leverage in all cases would be CRAP. You'd have to run the pad holders very high on the arms. Better to use disc brakes. Or if you have the ability to reposition the brake mounts... magura hydraulic rim brakes.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Onza HO's would work also, but the leverage in all cases would be CRAP. You'd have to run the pad holders very high on the arms. Better to use disc brakes. Or if you have the ability to reposition the brake mounts... magura hydraulic rim brakes.


If one was to do this, the best bet would be to use a V brake setup and then accompany those with some cantilever levers to offset the decreased leverage... Which V brakes would work?


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> If one was to do this, the best bet would be to use a V brake setup and then accompany those with some cantilever levers to offset the decreased leverage... Which V brakes would work?


Paul Motos like SFgirl wrote. They are about 8 miles tall and have a really large amount of pad holder height adjustment


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Paul Motos like SFgirl wrote. They are about 8 miles tall and have a really large amount of pad holder height adjustment


ah, see, I dont know my 90s stuff too well. I thought those were cantis. Those would probalby work well then coupled with some canti brake levers. _If_ you had enough clearance for the bigger wheels.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

I think folks pretty commonly use Paul Motos to run 700c on 26inch wheel bikes.

Come on F-B, you're not old enough to not know 90s stuff


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## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

Do most 650B wheelsets fit in a 26" rigid retro fork, or is that all dependent?


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## GrumpyOne (Jan 7, 2004)

The problem with Paul Motos is the Noddle/Cable clearance. The pads have a ton of adjustment but the noddle is huge and has less clearance then an Avid Ultimate. That's why I'm using the Avids on mine. (I did try Paul Motolites first.) 
Note: If you ran a smaller tire I'm sure the Pauls would work, but you'd of course loose the benefit of the large tire.

jw



IF52 said:


> Paul Motos like SFgirl wrote. They are about 8 miles tall and have a really large amount of pad holder height adjustment


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Wow, that's crazy. I'll have to look at them tonight when I get home. I would have figured they had way more clearance.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

GrumpyOne said:


> The problem with Paul Motos is the Noddle/Cable clearance. The pads have a ton of adjustment but the noddle is huge and has less clearance then an Avid Ultimate. That's why I'm using the Avids on mine. (I did try Paul Motolites first.)
> Note: If you ran a smaller tire I'm sure the Pauls would work, but you'd of course loose the benefit of the large tire.
> 
> jw


what kind of brake lever are you using?


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## GrumpyOne (Jan 7, 2004)

Avid Speed Dial Ultimate.

jw



Fillet-brazed said:


> what kind of brake lever are you using?


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