# Gemini Duo clones



## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Anyone have one of the Gemini Duo clones from Ali Express or Fasttech?

What's the practical difference (if any) between the XM-L U2 and XML2 T6 LED's?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I think there are a couple of guys that have one on order. It's a great looking light. The only thing that worries me is the description of the lens as 60 degree. That's a super flooder, and probably not very useful for riding. And this is coming from a guy who likes a flood light. The 872 clone I'm using has about a 22 degree hot spot and that is more than enough. That's just the hot spot though, it really shoots light everywhere. So hopefully the Duo clone has a smaller than 60 degree hot spot. Otherwise it would just be too dim even with 2 leds.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Gemini Duo, Gloworm X2, and Lupine Piko are similar housing designs. It's about time those cnc shops in china started cloning them.

I have one on order. Hopefully the "60 degree" lens is just a typo, otherwise it's not usable on the trail or road.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

mrbubbles said:


> Hopefully the "60 degree" lens is just a typo, otherwise it's not usable on the trail or road.


It's probably more like 6 degree, lol.

Those who have ordered please let us know!


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

The lens on the product shot of the clones look like the gemini duo, so if the beam pattern is similar to the gemini duo, that's acceptable.

Gemini Duo - 2013 Mtbr Lights Shootout | Mountain Bike Review


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

I ordered a red one from FastTech a week ago, hope to have it soon.

Depending on brightness and beam pattern, I MIGHT be removing the mount and using 3M Dual Lock tape and mounting it flush on my helmet for a nice low-profile set up. We'll see. But I'll do a brief review for sure.


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## Huckler (Nov 9, 2004)

I just bought the Duo from Gemini, and it is sweet. Now I just bought the Fastech version to compare. At $51 bucks, how could you go wrong?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Huckler said:


> I just bought the Duo from Gemini, and it is sweet. Now I just bought the Fastech version to compare. At $51 bucks, how could you go wrong?


That would be a great comparison! I would be particularly interested in the difference in beam shape and brightness. Thanks.


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## xmessenger (Aug 13, 2010)

Are these clones available in colours? I'm curious because I saw a Gemini Duo on ebay for about $200 and was going to get it but the colour option raised red flags as did the 4400mAh battery as opposed to a 5200. Good thing I didn't get suckered into paying 2 bills for a $50 light! I hate sellers like this who try to pass fakes as legit.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Yes, the clones come in colors, black, red and blue.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Just arrived today, this thing is tiny! Seems so far so good. the beam shots are on high and from about 8' away.




























I have a dumb question about the charger (it didn't come with a manual so I couldn't RTFM). The battery appeared to shipped charged, because the light worked when I first connected it to the battery out of the box.

When I plugged the charger into the wall, the LED on the charger illuminates solid green with nothing attached to it. When I attached the battery to the charger, it remained solid green. How do these chargers typically operate - Does solid green means the battery is fully charged? Does the LED on these chargers blink or turn red they're charging or something else is going on?


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

zuuds, what date did you order yours? I ordered mine on 9/13 through FastTech, it still hasn't left Hong Kong according to the USPS tracking. Grrr!


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

fightnut said:


> zuuds, what date did you order yours? I ordered mine on 9/13 through FastTech, it still hasn't left Hong Kong according to the USPS tracking. Grrr!


9/17. I had it shipped to a business address in California.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

zuuds said:


> When I plugged the charger into the wall, the LED on the charger illuminates solid green with nothing attached to it. When I attached the battery to the charger, it remained solid green. How do these chargers typically operate - Does solid green means the battery is fully charged? Does the LED on these chargers blink or turn red they're charging or something else is going on?


They usually go RED if the battery isn't fully charged, and changes to green when it's done.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I always plug the battery into the charger and then plug it into the wall. If it's not charged fully, then the led turns red.

That thing does look tiny. I just ordered a solarstorm x2 xm-l2 today, but this might be better. Looks pretty spotty? How would you rate the brightness, is it brighter than a single xml? How are the modes arranged? Are flash and off part of the rotation?


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Zuuds-

Light looks sweet. You think you can take some pics outside?


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

fightnut said:


> They usually go RED if the battery isn't fully charged, and changes to green when it's done.





varider said:


> I always plug the battery into the charger and then plug it into the wall. If it's not charged fully, then the led turns red.
> 
> That thing does look tiny. I just ordered a solarstorm x2 xm-l2 today, but this might be better. Looks pretty spotty? How would you rate the brightness, is it brighter than a single xml? How are the modes arranged? Are flash and off part of the rotation?


Thanks for the charger info. I put a voltmeter to the pack and it read 10.67 volts, so maybe it isn't low enough to make the LED turn red.

I have actually never seen a single XML light in person, so I couldn't tell you if it's brighter. All I can say is it's a hell of a lot brighter than my little single AA powered XP-G2 Fenix LD12 flashlight, which is the only other "real" light I own.

I'm not sure if this would be considered a spotty or floody light, I don't have experience with any other bike lights. However, I think I'm going to call it floody. I compared the beam to my LD12, it is definitely floodier than the LD12. Unlike the LD12 there is no sharply defined hotspot and spill. I tried to take some outdoor beamshots, but my phone camera couldn't cope.

<Edit - in my earlier post I said the indoor beamshots were from about 8 feet away, but it was probably more like 6 feet since my arm was outstretched.>

The modes are low-mid-hi-off (short presses). No mode memory, it always starts on low. Strobe is accessed via a long press when the light is already on, so it's not there when you're just cycling thru modes regularly. You have to deliberately enter strobe, which is good.

The battery pouch is a shiny, faux-cordura material, and the stitching on the velcro is already falling apart after a few test mounts. For $50 I'm not going to complain though, the light itself seems well built.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks for the info zuuds! That UI sounds pretty good.

I don't know what's going on with that battery. I thought that it came with a 2s2p battery which would have a maximum voltage of 8.4V. Since you are measuring 10.67V this must be wired differently, maybe 3s1p or 4s1p. That would make it incompatible with all my other stuff.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

varider said:


> Thanks for the info zuuds! That UI sounds pretty good.
> 
> I don't know what's going on with that battery. I thought that it came with a 2s2p battery which would have a maximum voltage of 8.4V. Since you are measuring 10.67V this must be wired differently, maybe 3s1p or 4s1p. That would make it incompatible with all my other stuff.


I don't understand the battery voltage either - according to the item description on Fasttech, it comes with a 4x18650 / 4400mAh / 2SP pack. :skep: I'm no battery expert but It's a standard looking square shrink wrapped 4x18650 pack and as far as I can tell there are 4 cells in it.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

zuuds said:


> I don't understand the battery voltage either - according to the item description on Fasttech, it comes with a 4x18650 / 4400mAh / 2SP pack. :skep: I'm no battery expert but It's a standard looking square shrink wrapped 4x18650 pack and as far as I can tell there are 4 cells in it.


I've seen a picture that someone posted, where one of the batteries was replaced with a plastic tube and then shrinkwrapped. It could be that you only have three batteries wired in series.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

3 days ago I received a message from Fasttech, and they are currently out of stock.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

varider said:


> I've seen a picture that someone posted, where one of the batteries was replaced with a plastic tube and then shrinkwrapped. It could be that you only have three batteries wired in series.


Yikes! I heard that Chinese batteries are sketchy... but I didn't realize they were that sketchy! :eekster:


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

*never mind!*



zuuds said:


> Yikes! I heard that Chinese batteries are sketchy... but I didn't realize they were that sketchy! :eekster:


I was scratching my head about this, and just for the heck of it connected my voltmeter to a AA battery - it read 2.2 volts. It then told me a 9V battery was 12 volts. After replacing the battery in my voltmeter, it's now giving accurate readings. The "duo" battery pack is at 7.39 volts, not 10.67!:blush:


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## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

Depends on how the battery is being measured. Each individual battery would be charged to 4.2v when fully charged, so when fully charged you should get a reading of 16.8v. When wired 2s2p the driver restricts the voltage to 8.4v, this is output only. Zuuds can you clarify how you are measuring the voltage?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

zuuds said:


> I was scratching my head about this, and just for the heck of it connected my voltmeter to a AA battery - it read 2.2 volts. It then told me a 9V battery was 12 volts. After replacing the battery in my voltmeter, it's now giving accurate readings. The "duo" battery pack is at 7.39 volts, not 10.67!:blush:


Haha, mystery solved!


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

whokilledJR said:


> Depends on how the battery is being measured. Each individual battery would be charged to 4.2v when fully charged, so when fully charged you should get a reading of 16.8v. When wired 2s2p the driver restricts the voltage to 8.4v, this is output only. Zuuds can you clarify how you are measuring the voltage?


I'm placing the negative probe on the metal edge of the cylinder part of the battery lead , and the positive probe on the post part in the middle. Is that the right way to do it?

I'm not even sure my charger works. (See post 11 above). All it ever shows is solid green when it's plugged in -- whether or not the battery is connected to it. I tried connecting the battery to it before plugging it in, but it still does the same thing.

If the charger LED is supposed to display red at less than full charge, and it is green when my battery is at 7.4 (out of 16.8) volts, I don't think it's working. I plugged the charger into the wall and put the voltmeter to it (black probe to the outside cylinder, red probe into the center hole) - shows 0 volts. Shouldn't it show 8.4v? (the sticker on the charger says the output is 8.4v, 1000 ma.)

I guess I can put the battery on the charger tonight and see if the battery shows higher voltage tomorrow.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes, your multimeter connection is correct. Based on your description of problem, I'd say that charger is broken.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

If you stick the probe in the connector, you can make short circuit and damage the battery, charger etc.


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## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

zuuds said:


> I was scratching my head about this, and just for the heck of it connected my voltmeter to a AA battery - it read 2.2 volts. It then told me a 9V battery was 12 volts. After replacing the battery in my voltmeter, it's now giving accurate readings. The "duo" battery pack is at 7.39 volts, not 10.67!:blush:


I missed this post. 7.39v sounds more reasonable, although not fully charged, it would be 8.4v fully charged. As Archie mentioned your charger is playing up if this reading is correct, which is not a good thing when dealing with Li-ion batteries.

Even if the light is green a lot of chargers still trickle charge at a very slow rate near the end of recharging, although 7.4v is too low for it to start doing this. Have you tried charging it over a period of time and re-checking the voltage to see if it's still charging? I'd err on the side of caution, i.e don't leave it charging unattended over night.

Based on some of your readings it could just be the voltmeter is still not giving accurate figures.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

bhocewar said:


> If you stick the probe in the connector, you can make short circuit and damage the battery, charger etc.


Charger - maybe, but its kinda hard to short circuit male plug. Much easier to do that with female plug on battery, but you won't damage anything in battery - all bike lights batteries have protection pcbs in them that will disconnect cells if you'll short circuit connector.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Kir said:


> Charger - maybe, but its kinda hard to short circuit male plug. Much easier to do that with female plug on battery, but you won't damage anything in battery - all bike lights batteries have protection pcbs in them that will disconnect cells if you'll short circuit connector.


Good to know. I stuck the probes in in veeeerrrry carefully, a la


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

whokilledJR said:


> I missed this post. 7.39v sounds more reasonable, although not fully charged, it would be 8.4v fully charged. As Archie mentioned your charger is playing up if this reading is correct, which is not a good thing when dealing with Li-ion batteries.
> 
> Even if the light is green a lot of chargers still trickle charge at a very slow rate near the end of recharging, although 7.4v is too low for it to start doing this. Have you tried charging it over a period of time and re-checking the voltage to see if it's still charging? I'd err on the side of caution, i.e don't leave it charging unattended over night.
> 
> Based on some of your readings it could just be the voltmeter is still not giving accurate figures.


I threw caution to the wind and left it on the charger all night. This morning it read exactly .... 7.39v. The charger must be bunk. I ordered a Magicshine charger from Action LED Lights.

I think my voltmeter is giving accurate readings now that I installed a new battery. I tested it on AA and 9v batteries and it's giving correct readings.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Just got mine, shipped on the 15th of Sept.

First thing I did was removed the mount and installed a quick release one.

Rubber mounts are ok if they came with a tab but this one did not.

















Very very small and lightweight.

I'd buy another head only for a headlamp if they sold head only.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

I went for an hour ride with it, bright, but floody, almost no spot. It's a shame because the body is perfect for a helmet/headlamp mount. 

Wonder if you can swap the optics to spot.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

mrbubbles said:


> I went for an hour ride with it, bright, but floody, almost no spot. It's a shame because the body is perfect for a helmet/headlamp mount.
> 
> Wonder if you can swap the optics to spot.


Any night pictures?


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Gharddog03 said:


> Any night pictures?


Nope. My night time camera skillz are next to nothing. I'll try to figure out my dslr over the weekend and take some pics. Stay tuned.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

mrbubbles said:


> Wonder if you can swap the optics to spot.


Allmost positive you can do that. Just pop it out, measure the lens and choose the right one.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Kir said:


> you won't damage anything in battery - all bike lights batteries have protection pcbs in them that will disconnect cells if you'll short circuit connector.


It should be so, but in reality not always safe. I myself burned PCB on early MagicShine battery by accidental shortage, so I'd recommend to avoid "testing" it that way...


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

mrbubbles said:


> Rubber mounts are ok if they came with a tab but this one did not.


For what it's worth, you can buy tabbed O-rings separately.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

-Archie- said:


> It should be so, but in reality not always safe. I myself burned PCB on early MagicShine battery by accidental shortage, so I'd recommend to avoid "testing" it that way...


On the flip side, the $30 magic shine clone I had had no overvoltage protection, I plugged in a 8.4v fully charged battery and it fried the circuit board.



-Archie- said:


> For what it's worth, you can buy tabbed O-rings separately.


I did look for them, cheapest I found was $6 on ebay, pricey considering that you can buy solarstorm x2 light only with tabbed o rings for $20.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

mrbubbles said:


> I did look for them, cheapest I found was $6 on ebay, pricey considering that you can buy solarstorm x2 light only with tabbed o rings for $20.


Cheap Silicone O-Ring Seal Mounting Band for SKU 29489/30864 (2-Pack)


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## Bollis (Sep 9, 2013)

*Sv: Gemini Duo clones*



mrbubbles said:


> Just got mine, shipped on the 15th of Sept.
> 
> First thing I did was removed the mount and installed a quick release one.
> 
> ...


Where did you buy the quick release mount?

Skickat från min GT-I9300 med Tapatalk 4


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

-Archie- said:


> Cheap Silicone O-Ring Seal Mounting Band for SKU 29489/30864 (2-Pack)


That's more reasonable. I still prefer quick release though.



Bollis said:


> Where did you buy the quick release mount?
> 
> Skickat från min GT-I9300 med Tapatalk 4


I got a bunch of them rummaging through my local bike co-op.

But you can buy them.

Quick-Cam Adjustable Bracket

Locally folks can buy them from here.

Planet Bike Quick Cam Handlebar Bracket - Mountain Equipment Co-op. Free Shipping Available

I wouldn't wholly recommend these mounts if I had to buy them, it's quite a bit of work, you have to drill a hole in the center, and the allen screw to mount the light takes some dexterity to put on because of the tight spaces.

But once you assembled everything, it's a great mount, very adjustable for different handlebar diameters, and much easier to take off than o rings.

These mounts are actually my preferred mounts for flashlights because they can fit many different flashlight diameters, even 26650 flashlights.










And for different handlebar sizes.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

I didn't think it was possible but the light beam burned my table sheet fabric.

Somebody need to explain this scientifically.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

What namely surprises you? Yes, beside of visible spectrum, powerful light emits huge amount of heat as well; you can feel it by putting your hand in front of working light...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mrbubbles said:


> I didn't think it was possible but the light beam burned my table sheet fabric.
> 
> Somebody need to explain this scientifically.
> 
> View attachment 836400


The fabric is likely sensitive to heat. LED's ( class II ) can produce a good bit of heat.


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## markyboy1980 (Sep 20, 2008)

Currently waiting (VERY) impatiently for mine to arrive, ordered on the 18th Sept and was shipped on the 20th Sept, I know it was only 2 weeks ago but still...

Anyway... Good to hear initial favourable reports on the light unit. I had the fortune to have a quick play with a Gemini Duo at the Bike Show at the NEC last weekend, and can confirm it was really rather good. So if this is anywhere near as good, for 1/5th of the price I will be ecstatic!


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

I ordered mine from FastTech on 9/12 and I'm STILL waiting for it! I e-mailed them and they said it was held up in "x-ray scan for many days". 

Anyway, regarding MrBubbles comment that it's very floody. I wonder if a reflector could be put on one side (assuming the right size exists), for a mix of spot and flood?


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## Sk8r (Nov 13, 2009)

mrbubbles said:


> On the flip side, the $30 magic shine clone I had had no overvoltage protection, I plugged in a 8.4v fully charged battery and it fried the circuit board.


Did the same, is there a repair for this?


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Sk8r said:


> Did the same, is there a repair for this?


There is, replace the driver.


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## Sk8r (Nov 13, 2009)

mrbubbles said:


> There is, replace the driver.


Any threads on how to replace the driver and/or where to buy? Searched "How to replace driver" but I keep getting hits on bad drivers in bike lanes :6


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Sk8r said:


> Any threads on how to replace the driver and/or where to buy


Post over in the DIY light forum. There may be more help there.

PM me if interested in a repair. I've built lights for myself and a few others for the past 4 years and have repaired a couple Magicshines. The only difficulty is finding a suitable replacement driver from DX or Kaidomain and then waiting 3-4 weeks for it to arrive. If you understand basic electricity and can solder reasonably well, replacing a driver is easy.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Sk8r said:


> Any threads on how to replace the driver and/or where to buy? Searched "How to replace driver" but I keep getting hits on bad drivers in bike lanes :6


Actually, you can buy drivers almost anywhere. When it comes they even include the lamp head with the driver already installed. Cost about $25-$30. Your choice in the type of lamp head. Hard to beat that deal.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Well said!


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

4-Mode 0.8~1.5A LED Driver Circuit Board for XM-L Bicycle Headlamp / Flashlight - Black (3.3~8V) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
4-Mode 4A LED Driver Circuit Board for 3-XM-L Bicycle Headlamp / Flashlight - Black (7~18V) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
4-Mode 6A LED Driver Circuit Board for 2 or More XM-L Bicycle Headlamp / Flashlight (7~18V) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
5V~8.4V 2000mA 3-Mode LED Driver Board - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
21.65mm 8.4V 1500mA Circuit Board for Bike Light SKU 94182 / 82510 / 82734 + More - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX
And so on.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> Actually, you can buy drivers almost anywhere. When it comes they even include the lamp head with the driver already installed. Cost about $25-$30. Your choice in the type of lamp head. Hard to beat that deal.


Yup, new heads are so cheap that repair is certainly not an profitable thing to do. Could argue that it is the right thing to do.

I still stand by my belief that one should open these cheapo lamps and check them over for proper assembly, soldering, etc. and fix all defects before trusting your night ride to one. Not doing so is a little like buying a new bike that you know was spec'd with the cheapest of components, welded and assembled by someone with little skill and no care as to the product, (but has a nice looking paint job) then heading out on a gonzo ride with no further inspection. Run two systems and maybe even carry a torch for backup.



Kir said:


> 4-Mode 0.8~1.5A LED Driver Circuit Board for XM-L Bicycle Headlamp / Flashlight - Black (3.3~8V) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> 4-Mode 4A LED Driver Circuit Board for 3-XM-L Bicycle Headlamp / Flashlight - Black (7~18V) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> 4-Mode 6A LED Driver Circuit Board for 2 or More XM-L Bicycle Headlamp / Flashlight (7~18V) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> 5V~8.4V 2000mA 3-Mode LED Driver Board - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> ...


That's what I mean by difficult. How does the newb user/repairer decide which one is correct or usable? Wading through the various specs and features is bad enough and then once you get what you thought you ordered it does not work as described. The last batch of DX drivers I bought spec'd the drive current at 1.25A. They actually only deliver .7A.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Vancbiker said:


> I still stand by my belief that one should open these cheapo lamps and check them over for proper assembly, soldering, etc. and fix all defects before trusting your night ride to one.


Absolutely. This is what I'm always doing myself, and recommend to others. Vast majority of problems can be eliminated by preliminary inspection & minor repair: most lights are working flawlessly for quite long time then...


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Mine FINALLY arrived, and although I haven't even turned it on yet (charging battery), I had to post about how small this thing is!

When I opened the case it comes in, I removed the head strap which was covering everything up, I saw the battery and the charger, and then I saw a little bag. When I pulled the bag out of the case, I had a sinking feeling that they had sent me the wrong thing. The bag and the object in it were surely way too small to be my dual light. Nope, it's that small! 
Pictures don't do it justice.
I'll post my impressions of it after I get to use it.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Got mine too, first impression - so small! Will make a perfect helmet light imo.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

The lighthead with cable is 60 grams. 

I took some pics with my phone (iPhone 4s), but can't seem to figure out how to load them. If anyone wants to pm me instructions so as not to take this thread off topic, I'd appreciate it.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)




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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)




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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Sorry for the separate posts for the pics. I haven't uploaded pics in a long time, and I'm relearning it (we get spoiled loading pics from our phones to Facebook). I'll get better at it.

By the way, the light from this is very clean white. I thought my triple xml (in photo) was pretty white, but this thing makes the beam on that one look slightly yellowish.


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## artemha (Nov 20, 2010)

fightnut said:


> Sorry for the separate posts for the pics. I haven't uploaded pics in a long time, and I'm relearning it (we get spoiled loading pics from our phones to Facebook). I'll get better at it.
> 
> By the way, the light from this is very clean white. I thought my triple xml (in photo) was pretty white, but this thing makes the beam on that one look slightly yellowish.


please some beamshots =)


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

That's amazingly small. Now the million dollar question is how bright is it?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Ordered one. Might throw XPGs into it if the beam is too wide.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Looks just like my gemini duo for half the price


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

znomit said:


> Ordered one. Might throw XPGs into it if the beam is too wide.


The beam is wide. Much much wider than carclo spot 20mm triple on an xpg triple.

Someone needs to rip this light open and experiment with different spot optics.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

mrbubbles said:


> Someone needs to rip this light open and experiment with different spot optics.


I nominate you.


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## artemha (Nov 20, 2010)

Someone needs disassemble to measure optics and take pictures


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

fightnut said:


> View attachment 838488


So fight, Which one did you buy, the one with XML U2s' or XM-L2's? How does the output compare with your tri-clone lamp? Where did you order from and how long did it take to get to you? Nice to hear that the beam tint is very white. That alone makes these worth buying. I just hope they hold up after using for some time ( without doing any mods ).


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

mrbubbles said:


> The beam is wide. Much much wider than carclo spot 20mm triple on an xpg triple.


Wow, that Carclo is already a pretty floody beam. Hard to believe this is even wider.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

I disassembled them.

Leds.








The measurements.















From left to right, stock yinding lens, dx cree xr-e 8° lens, and carclo 20mm 15° lens for xr-e. That's all the spare lens I have on hand that fits.









The latter two lens are floodier than the stock yinding lens.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

mrbubbles said:


> I disassembled them.


Thanks!!! :thumbsup:

How much room is there around the driver? 
I'd like to put a taskled Lflex in there.
Board is 0.780" in diameter (<20mm). Maximum thickness 0.120".
LFlex Product Information


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

Anyone found light only version anywhere?


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## artemha (Nov 20, 2010)

maybe fit this???
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----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> So fight, Which one did you buy, the one with XML U2s' or XM-L2's? How does the output compare with your tri-clone lamp? Where did you order from and how long did it take to get to you? Nice to hear that the beam tint is very white. That alone makes these worth buying. I just hope they hold up after using for some time ( without doing any mods ).


I got the one from FastTech with the XML- U2's. Mine took almost a full month, but they said it got held up in "x-ray scan". Another guy on here had his in like two weeks from FastTech.

I did find it on Wallbuys for a couple dollars less ($48.39), but I've never dealt with them.

I haven't had it on the trail yet, but on the wall I'd say the tri-clone on medium (2 leds) seems slightly brighter, but I think that is just because of the more focused hot spot.
I really don't like to say too much until I have it on the trail, because I've commented on brightness and beam patterns before after shining them on the wall inside, and then had a very different opinion of them after I get them on a dark tree lined trail.

It is definitely a more evenly spread, floody type light. For that reason it will probably go on my bars.
I'd love to have the same exact light with either "spot" optics, or just OP textured reflectors to put on my helmet. 
I think that would be the perfect combo!


----------



## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

bad andy said:


> Those who have ordered please let us know!


OK, I bought this with hopes of giving to my son who has shown an interest in night riding. I think he will get the Magicshine! 

I purchased from here Free shipping 1Set CREE XML2 T6 3B Bike Light 1600lm Waterproof Bicycle Light LED HeadLamp + 8.4v Battery Pack + Charger-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com but the price seems to have gone up $31 in the last three weeks. Order from Fast Tech for the better deal. Total transit time was about 18 days.

My camera (Canon S95 auto focus) is being weird so here is in the order:

First Pic are the lamp heads.

Second pic is the test shot - cone on top of fire pit is 88 feet from lights. Fire pit to cones is 25 feet, last cone to lights is 13 feet.

Third pic is original magicshine on high.

Fourth pic is Yinding clone on high.


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Wow. Yinding is very impressive. Thanks for the pics.


----------



## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

znomit said:


> Thanks!!! :thumbsup:
> 
> How much room is there around the driver?
> I'd like to put a taskled Lflex in there.
> ...


Might not have enough room.

The inside.








The circuit.








The inside diameter.








All the parts disassembled.








Overall, it's a very simple straight forward design, folks should've thought of this about 5 years ago, it's not like cnc machines weren't available back then.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

mrbubbles said:


> folks should've thought of this about 5 years ago


Did, then decided to go smaller, lighter. 

For the money those are a great start on a light set though. Pretty clean looking construction. Is the surface the LEDs attach to pressed into the housing or integral to the housing? Can't tell from the pics what it has for strain relief/sealing on the cable entry. How is the sealing on the front and back covers and the sealing on the screws that hold the front and back on?


----------



## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Vancbiker said:


> Is the surface the LEDs attach to pressed into the housing or integral to the housing? Can't tell from the pics what it has for strain relief/sealing on the cable entry. How is the sealing on the front and back covers and the sealing on the screws that hold the front and back on?


The mid metal surface is integral to the housing, the heat transfer is very good.

Similar design to the easy2led housing where the entire piece is machined out.










No strain relief for the cables inside the housing, there is a strain relief for the power cable to the circuit board.

There are silicone rings for the front and back housing plate assemblies, the lens though are "sealed" by a really thin piece of silicone.

It passes for water resistant, but NOT waterproof.


----------



## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

There is thermal paste between the led and housing. This light piece requires no after delivery diy/qc to get it up and running.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

That's much nicer than a pressed in LED mounting surface. Likely a bit of sealant in the areas that look iffy and you could be nicely waterproof.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

mrbubbles said:


> Overall, it's a very simple straight forward design


Many thanks for posting the pics and review! :thumbsup: Seems that the light is well-designed indeed...


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## Albertoo (Oct 15, 2013)

Hey Guys,

after the recommandation of leuchte81 for this lamp, I also got my first bike light. 
I'm really happy with this light and think the value for money is really good.
Mine also took over 1 month for the delivery.

Now after some tests I have some questions and hope you might give me some hints what to do:

- When should I recharge the batteries? When the on/off button turns red, or should I fully empty the batteries?
- How long does it need to recharge? Can I trust the recharger lamp?
- Which batteries and case should I buy to improve the duration?

Thanks for you help!


----------



## artemha (Nov 20, 2010)

mrbubbles said:


> Might not have enough room.


You can cut off 0.8mm and install. I think fit the size


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Great pics from Mrbubbles for detailed view and 2melow for comparison between the old MS P7 and Gemini clone.
Yinding beam looks almost perfect. I am also waiting for Yinding from DX, but it seems it somehow stuck at the Beijing airport. :madmax:
It will be the main lamp, and my current old MS P7 will become backup. So those beamshots are great reference for me.

@2melow: Can you check if you really have T6 3B bin? and
can someone measure the current on high on batteries/LEDs/driver ?


----------



## Pr3dator (Jul 14, 2013)

Hi all! Thanks for all the effort you have put into sharing your experience with this light. Today I ordered 3 of them, one to myself and the other to some of my friends.

I was thinking that a extra batteri pack could be nice, but could not find any on the Fasttech website - can you point me in a direction for a good, not to expensive batteri pack?


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Pr3dator said:


> Hi all! Thanks for all the effort you have put into sharing your experience with this light. Today I ordered 3 of them, one to myself and the other to some of my friends.
> 
> I was thinking that a extra batteri pack could be nice, but could not find any on the Fasttech website - can you point me in a direction for a good, not to expensive batteri pack?


Panasonic, Samsung, Sanyo, or Bak should fit the bill. 30$-60$. I get my lighting gear through Jim [Action Leds] but this battery on amazon looks pretty good which is agressively priced at under 20$ 
Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack for Headlamp & Bicycle Light:Amazon:Sports & Outdoors


----------



## Pr3dator (Jul 14, 2013)

About the packages being stuck in China, that I read several people mentioning. There have been 7 days holiday in China where everything has been standing still - that is probably the reason for the delay that we still are suffering from.


----------



## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

mrbubbles said:


> Might not have enough room.
> 
> The inside.
> The circuit.
> ...


Is this the fast tech light? Did you find screws under the rubber on the mount? I want to purchase one of these, but hate the rubber band mounting mechanism and was hoping I could purchase a cat eye mount or something to hook it on. Thanks for any info.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Pr3dator said:


> About the packages being stuck in China, that I read several people mentioning. There have been 7 days holiday in China where everything has been standing still - that is probably the reason for the delay that we still are suffering from.


I ordered from someone on aliexpress which was a bad idea, it was 40 days ago and never shipped. It just said "status opening" for a month. I opened a dispute. I am thinking about buying from fast tech now.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

sxotty said:


> I ordered from someone on aliexpress which was a bad idea, it was 40 days ago and never shipped. It just said "status opening" for a month. I opened a dispute. I am thinking about buying from fast tech now.


I bought mine from aliexpress. So it depends on the seller.



sxotty said:


> Is this the fast tech light? Did you find screws under the rubber on the mount? I want to purchase one of these, but hate the rubber band mounting mechanism and was hoping I could purchase a cat eye mount or something to hook it on. Thanks for any info.


This light is the same as the fasttech version. It's a 4mm hex screw, much better than those screws for plastic housing.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Sweet bubbles thanks for the information man!


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

mrbubbles said:


> Might not have enough room.





artemha said:


> You can cut off 0.8mm and install. I think fit the size


Whereabouts would you propose cutting 0.8 mm from an Lflex ?


----------



## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

bhocewar said:


> @2melow: Can you check if you really have T6 3B bin?


While your eyes will tell you if the tint is in the ball park, AFAIK there is no way of telling whether the bin is T6 or anything else


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

bhocewar said:


> @2melow: Can you check if you really have T6 3B bin?


 I am not sure what I am looking for, apologies.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cree do not mark bin or tint codes on their emitters. Really all you'll be able to say is the tint is cool, neutral, or warm. Even that is pretty subjective. When I mention one of my MCE lights looking a little green on the low setting most people don't see it until I switch to a higher level where it gets more white. Without at the very least a calibrated integrating sphere and calibrated constant current power supply, you'll never know what bin you have. I very much doubt that the builders of cheap lights are really stepping up for a premium bin LED. Sure, it's not that much more expensive but at the price level lights are at now saving a dollar on LEDs is going to be very attractive to the builder. Add the fact that the consumer has no ability to tell and you have a sure thing.


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

find_bruce said:


> While your eyes will tell you if the tint is in the ball park, AFAIK there is no way of telling whether the bin is T6 or anything else


Having XML-U2 written on the stars is a good indication that its anything but that :skep:


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

znomit said:


> Having XML-U2 written on the stars is a good indication that its anything but that :skep:


They could possibly not be a CREE LED even. I'm looking at the pics on my phone so can't see enough detail to verify if they are real or not. A website for a mfg'r of off-road truck light bars I saw while ago showed images of fake CREE emitters. Fortunately they were pretty easy to tell by the lack of rectangular patterns on the die that is characteristic of genuine XMLs. Most buyers of these cheap lights would not think to research that nor is it likely to matter to most. It's still going to be pretty darn bright. Maybe not as bright as it could be, but very useable.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

2melow said:


> I am not sure what I am looking for, apologies.


You have white die backplate which indicates it is new XML2 and probably T6 bin 3B tint as seller states that has been upgraded.
The old XMLs have green backplate, and it is original die in this Yinding light...there is your sign XML-U2 coming from. It is original heatsink plate made by Yinding.
Your light is superior to other Fastech, DX Yindings.


----------



## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Just noticed that mine had the green backplate, so mine is the old xml, not xml2.


----------



## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

Vancbiker said:


> Cree do not mark bin or tint codes on their emitters. Really all you'll be able to say is the tint is cool, neutral, or warm. Even that is pretty subjective. When I mention one of my MCE lights looking a little green on the low setting most people don't see it until I switch to a higher level where it gets more white. Without at the very least a calibrated integrating sphere and calibrated constant current power supply, you'll never know what bin you have. I very much doubt that the builders of cheap lights are really stepping up for a premium bin LED. Sure, it's not that much more expensive but at the price level lights are at now saving a dollar on LEDs is going to be very attractive to the builder. Add the fact that the consumer has no ability to tell and you have a sure thing.


It's the driver causing the MCE led to go green at lower levels. Drivers that don't use PWM are more efficient, however leds that are not driven at 100% power actually change colour at lower levels, typically green for CW and orange for NW/WM.


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

bhocewar said:


> You have white die backplate which indicates it is new XML2 and probably T6 bin 3B tint as seller states that has been upgraded.
> Your light is superior to other Fastech, DX Yindings.


This is correct. Aliexpress seller replaces the leds himself, you have T6-3B neutral-white leds which are MUCH better than very cold white U2 leds in stock configuration.


----------



## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

I don't recall this question being asked and I know that most of the time it's random, but in general, those that have this Duo clone, how have the batteries been? Are they better than the average Chinese light? Average? Crap? Run times? Amp draw on low/med/high?

Thanks!


----------



## markyboy1980 (Sep 20, 2008)

STILL waiting for mine!

Ordered 4 weeks ago now... Have tried checking the status of the delivery at several times during the process, but until now got nothing... Today I checked again, and finally I get this...









Not very impressed with my first order from Fasttech so far! That and I'm not in France either, I'm in the UK! So I'm guessing even if it did leave Hong Kong today, It'll be next week at least now til it arrives... :madman:

Good to see the beam patterns make it look like it will be worth the wait though. I like quite a floody beam compared to a narrow one, though it does look like the Gemini optics (or possibly the Gloworm X2 ones) should fit, and those are easily available for me at least.

Any more news on the battery quality/life and current draw etc. in each mode? Should I be budgeting for a new battery pretty quickly, or do the OEM batteries seem of reasonable quality?


----------



## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Will these lights work with my existing Geomangear Magicshine battery pack? It has the round connectors. This looks pretty cool!


----------



## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

mrbubbles said:


> Just noticed that mine had the green backplate, so mine is the old xml, not xml2.


That doesn't mean it's an old xml, the led die may have been swapped for a new die using the same old star, and I've seen XML2 leds on different coloured stars.

There is a very easy way to check wether you have the new or old XML emitter. The old XML emitters have rectangular patterns on it (actually strips), the new xm-l2 emitter has no rectangular patterns.

See this site for clarification:

Brightness Bins - Flashlight Wiki


----------



## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

Vancbiker said:


> They could possibly not be a CREE LED even. I'm looking at the pics on my phone so can't see enough detail to verify if they are real or not. A website for a mfg'r of off-road truck light bars I saw while ago showed images of fake CREE emitters. Fortunately they were pretty easy to tell by the lack of rectangular patterns on the die that is characteristic of genuine XMLs. Most buyers of these cheap lights would not think to research that nor is it likely to matter to most. It's still going to be pretty darn bright. Maybe not as bright as it could be, but very useable.


XM_L2's don't have the rectangular patterns on them, only the first gen XML's do


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> Will these lights work with my existing Geomangear Magicshine battery pack? It has the round connectors. This looks pretty cool!


OHHH! So now we's gonna think'in of giving up on the ol' P-7's now are we...:ihih:....'bout time. 

Ti, all these duel XM-L lamps will usually work with the typical MS type connectors. One of these on the bars should be much better than the older single P-7 lamps, at least as far as beam width goes closer in to the bike. They will draw more power though if you run them on high for longer periods. Using the medium setting though will typically get you much better run times and not run so hot. Even on medium, these things light up the night really well.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

For the cost I just figured why not. My P7s continue to work fine.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

TiGeo said:


> Will these lights work with my existing Geomangear Magicshine battery pack? It has the round connectors. This looks pretty cool!


It works with my original Magicshine battery.

And it also works perfectly with my MJ-6030 5600mAh that I had bought as an upgrade for my tri-clone light.

It works with the original tri-clone battery, but it's not a secure fit (but it does work).

I do have one battery that it doesn't fit. It was a DX single XML-T6 (an MS clone).


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

2melow said:


> I purchased from here Free shipping 1Set CREE XML2 T6 3B Bike Light 1600lm Waterproof Bicycle Light LED HeadLamp + 8.4v Battery Pack + Charger-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com but the price seems to have gone up $31 in the last three weeks. Order from Fast Tech for the better deal.


I couldn't find any of these on fast tech. I searched for "CREE XML2 T6 3B"


----------



## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> OHHH! So now we's gonna think'in of giving up on the ol' P-7's now are we...:ihih:....'bout time.
> 
> Ti, all these duel XM-L lamps will usually work with the typical MS type connectors. One of these on the bars should be much better than the older single P-7 lamps, at least as far as beam width goes closer in to the bike. They will draw more power though if you run them on high for longer periods. Using the medium setting though will typically get you much better run times and not run so hot. Even on medium, these things light up the night really well.


Honestly, the P7 Magicshine 808s are great lights and more than enough to ride fast singletrack at night. I ride with some guys that bought theirs after mine and have the XML version..no real difference to me as we ride. I have been considering the newest MS 808 light heads lately as my batteries are fine..but they are basically the same price as these Gemini Duo knock-offs..just not sure on the quasi-shady quality of these things.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> Honestly, the P7 Magicshine 808s are great lights and more than enough to ride fast singletrack at night. I ride with some guys that bought theirs after mine and have the XML version..no real difference to me as we ride. I have been considering the newest MS 808 light heads lately as my batteries are fine..but they are basically the same price as these Gemini Duo knock-offs..just not sure on the quasi-shady quality of these things.


Having a lamp with two emitters on the bars makes for a better beam pattern, no question about it. Brightness isn't always the primary issue. Since you can buy one of these duo clones "lamp only" for about $25 it's hard not to buy one.

Since you're accustomed to having a MS on the helmet you might be interested in upgrading your helmet set-up to a newer MS 808 (L2) version. Jim at Action LED is selling the "light head only" for about $55 . Definitely, these are going to be noticeably brighter than the old P-7's. Not to mention like I said before, it's not always about being brighter. The newer XM-L2 emitters are more efficient which means when you run your lamps on low not only are they a little brighter but they are using less battery power than the previous P-7's. That said, longer run times are always going to be a nice by-product of the newer lamps.


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Is there a link for the lighthead only?


----------



## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> Having a lamp with two emitters on the bars makes for a better beam pattern, no question about it. Brightness isn't always the primary issue. Since you can buy one of these duo clones "lamp only" for about $25 it's hard not to buy one.
> 
> Since you're accustomed to having a MS on the helmet you might be interested in upgrading your helmet set-up to a newer MS 808 (L2) version. Jim at Action LED is selling the "light head only" for about $55 . Definitely, these are going to be noticeably brighter than the old P-7's. Not to mention like I said before, it's not always about being brighter. The newer XM-L2 emitters are more efficient which means when you run your lamps on low not only are they a little brighter but they are using less battery power than the previous P-7's. That said, longer run times are always going to be a nice by-product of the newer lamps.


Cat, can you post a link to the $25 light-head only?


----------



## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

My yinding has the first gen xml's with the rectangles. 

Still plenty bright, folks who got the xml2s should post the vendor they got it from.


----------



## klydesdale (Feb 6, 2005)

Within the last week, I've looked for a dual XM-L2 lamphead only for the least cost on all the usual sites mentioned in this forum and this is the only one I found for around $25:

Black Color SolarStorm X2 2*Cree XM-L2 2200-Lumen Led Bike Light Without Battery Pack

The XM-L version is about $3 less.


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

TiGeo said:


> Cat, can you post a link to the $25 light-head only?


I believe he was talking about the Solarstorm x2, which is available as a light-head-only for around $21-$25.

I think that the Gemini Duo Clones are only available as full kits with battery and charger. I would love to get my hands on a a light-head-only option for this light. If anyone knows of place that sells it, please post a link


----------



## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Is there a big difference between the Solarstorm X2 and the YinDing light? Is it worth it?


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

So I finally go out for a ride with the new Duo clone. A few initial observations:

I mounted the light on my helmet, and as I was leaving for the ride, I went to stuff the battery in my camelback. That's when I realized how short the cables are on both the light AND on the battery (I just hadn't thought of it until that moment).

This is a nice feature if you're using it on your bars, less cable to deal with, but if you're using this on your helmet and putting the battery in a backpack or jersey pocket, get a Magicshine extension cable!
Fortunately a friend had one to loan me.

Next, the button is very flat, and can be a bit hard to feel with gloves on. Again, not much of a problem if it's on your bars because you can see it, but takes a little getting use to on your helmet when you're doing it by feel. I did find it was easier with my left hand than my right.
Would be nice if the button stuck out just a bit.

The beam is nice and even, no hot spot, no rings, etc. Definitely more of a flood light, but still very bright and decent range. But this is yet another reason it would be better on bars.
I'm hoping that eventually I'll find some "spot" optics or reflectors that fit and will give it more throw. 
I think a stock one on bars for flood, and one configured for more spot/throw on helmet would be a PERFECT set up!

I used it on high while riding, and switched to low or off when we stopped to regroup.
Total ride time was 1 hr 22 min. Plus about 15 min on low while stopped, and my indicator light was still green at the end.

Considering when we started, there was a sea of green leds on (17 riders with a LOT of various Magichines, and MS clones), and by the end of the ride there was a sea of blue, orange and red leds, I was pretty happy that mine was still green 

Overall, very happy with this light and will buy another one which I will try to mod for more spot/throw using different optics or reflectors.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)




----------



## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback fightnut, out of all the bugdet multi-emitter lights I've seen this one appears so far to be the best built, in particular the internals and the Nuetral white tint if you get the version from Aliexpress. Beam profile looks fantastic.

How did you find the mode spacing?

If we can find some replacement optics this would be perfect.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

whokilledJR said:


> How did you find the mode spacing?


Good question. I wouldn't mind if the "low" was lower.
When I'm riding, I always have it on high. I don't mess around with switching modes when I'm going slower or faster, climbing or descending. I just leave it on high.

But when we're stopped to re-group, or for trail side repairs, or even when I sneak off for a pee, I'd like a lower low to save battery and so I'm not blinding people.
Not a big deal, but it would nice.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Pinkman said:


> Is there a big difference between the Solarstorm X2 and the YinDing light? Is it worth it?


There was one Solarstorm X2 on last nights ride. Unfortunately, there were so many riders, and so many lights going at any one time, that I just didn't get a chance to talk to the guy and compare it to my Duo clone.

I'm hoping I run into him again on another ride, because I do want to compare the beam and the throw between the two lights.


----------



## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

fightnut said:


> There was one Solarstorm X2 on last nights ride. Unfortunately, there were so many riders, and so many lights going at any one time, that I just didn't get a chance to talk to the guy and compare it to my Duo clone.
> 
> I'm hoping I run into him again on another ride, because I do want to compare the beam and the throw between the two lights.


There are differences in the quality of the light, but the technical things are nearly the same, right? I think the luminous power and is the same?!


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

fightnut said:


> There was one Solarstorm X2 on last nights ride. Unfortunately, there were so many riders, and so many lights going at any one time, that I just didn't get a chance to talk to the guy and compare it to my Duo clone.
> 
> I'm hoping I run into him again on another ride, because I do want to compare the beam and the throw between the two lights.


I think you'll find ( when you catch up to him ) that the SSX2 will have a bit more throw. On the other hand I have a feeling that the Duo clones are going to be better for more spill, hence make a better bar light than the SSX2. A good ( cheap ) combo set-up might be a SSX2 on the helmet and a Duo clone on the bars. Still all things considered while I may like the SSX2 on the helmet it still doesn't beat out the intense spot that a good single XM-L2 emitter reflector lamp can put out. Larger reflectors just rock.

I'm going out to test my new Gloworm X2. I'll post up later...see ya.


----------



## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

So any links to the Duo clone light head only?

I purchased one set from FasTech last Tuesday(still not shipped) but would like another one if it is ~$25. 

Chris.


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

fightnut said:


> Considering when we started, there was a sea of green leds on (17 riders with a LOT of various Magichines, and MS clones), and by the end of the ride there was a sea of blue, orange and red leds, I was pretty happy that mine was still green


Magicshines have 4 stages battery indicator, Yinding has basically 2 stages (100-30% green, 30-25% red, 5-0% red blinking) - so don't be happy heh.
My own Yinding has ~3500mAh battery and draws about 1.7A on high. So while it does have almost the same brightness as SSX2 its battery will only work for about 2-2.5 hours on high.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

fightnut said:


> But when we're stopped to re-group, or for trail side repairs, or even when I sneak off for a pee, I'd like a lower low to save battery and so I'm not blinding people.
> Not a big deal, but it would nice.


I like having a "hidden" low low for things like map reading or pretty much any non-riding time. By "hidden" I mean that it is a mode accessed by something like a press and hold for 3 seconds. I don't want it in a rotation with the riding levels. Low enough so the map isn't blown out with too much light reflection.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Kir said:


> Magicshines have 4 stages battery indicator, Yinding has basically 2 stages (100-30% green, 30-25% red, 5-0% red blinking) - so don't be happy heh.
> My own Yinding has ~3500mAh battery and draws about 1.7A on high. So while it does have almost the same brightness as SSX2 its battery will only work for about 2-2.5 hours on high.


Considering my rides are under two hours anyway, and this is the stock battery, trust me, I'm happy 

I can always spend a little extra money and get a better battery if I felt the need, but I don't see the need just yet.

But I do carry a spare battery anyway. Since I use two lights, only makes sense to have one extra battery, just incase something fails, gets damaged in a crash, etc.


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

krzysiekmz said:


> So any links to the Duo clone light head only?
> 
> I purchased one set from FasTech last Tuesday(still not shipped) but would like another one if it is ~$25.
> 
> Chris.


I talked with the seller of these lights on aliexpress.
Light head only will cost $35-40 if you order 10-50 pieces. Complete set can be bought for $40-45 for same quanity, so imo its not worth it to buy only the head.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Just went out for my first ride with two Yindings I got from fastech. Shipping was about 3 weeks from order which I found acceptable.

I have been night riding on and off since the good old days of the dual beam night suns 20 years ago. My latest setup was a Baja Designs origional Stryker and the original magicshine on the helmet.

These two tiny lights blew away every other setup I have ever had (but to be honest I always have been a bit cheap with the lights). After a two hour ride both lights were still green using a combo of low through high. I used the stock battery on one an the Baja designs battery on the other. I was very impressed that these lights are available for 50 bucks.

Would be nice if some tighter optics would be available for the helmet light but honestly I am not really into tinkering with them but as soon as someone figures out what will drop right in I will order up.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Sweet set-up. Might pull the trigger on one.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Great thread, can anyone compare the light pattern from the original vs. the clone? looking for a headlite and wondering if the original duo is more of a spot?
Thanks for any help.


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## Posher (Oct 13, 2011)

Has anyone seen these yet with the new XM-L2 emitters? I am planning on ordering a couple of these, but not sure if I should wait and see if the new models show up soon.


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## markyboy1980 (Sep 20, 2008)

Well mine FINALLY arrived from Fasttech today, a mere 5 weeks since I ordered it! :rant:

Anyway... Rant over... Battery is currently on charge, but the light head unit seems exceptionally well made compared to other "cheapo chinese" light head units I've seen. Just hoping it's as good as the initial beam patterns thrown up on this thread so far suggest it should be, and that the battery is significantly better than the rubbish ones the Solarstorm X2's are coming with!

Will post more later when I've tried it out...


----------



## markyboy1980 (Sep 20, 2008)

Incidentally...

I've had a play with a Gemini Duo fairly recently (and it was superb), and aside from the 3 grooves in the fins on the top of the body, this light head is not so much a clone of the Gemini, but is more likely actually the same unit!

I'll see if I can get hold of a Gemini again and do some measurements to compare them, but I'd be very surprised if they don't come out of the same factory.

I can't speak for the batteries though, I know the Gemini's ship with high quality Samsung cell packs.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

markyboy1980 said:


> Incidentally...
> 
> I've had a play with a Gemini Duo fairly recently (and it was superb), and aside from the 3 grooves in the fins on the top of the body, this light head is not so much a clone of the Gemini, but is more likely actually the same unit!
> 
> ...


WoW, I love my duo's. If that's the case I would buy a few.


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## markyboy1980 (Sep 20, 2008)

Gharddog03 said:


> WoW, I love my duo's. If that's the case I would buy a few.


Well to be fair, the driver will be different too (doesn't appear to be programmable), and annoyingly it cycles low/med/high/off so you have to go through off each time to come back to low or medium! Ah well...

Here's some VERY rubbish beam shots to compare... First up is the Yinding on High...









Then here's my Exposure Toro Mk3 on high...









You'll notice that the Toro has a narrower, more focussed beam. I'd say that crap photography aside, the Toro is slightly brighter in the centre of the beam (so probably has a bit more throw), but the Yinding has WAY more spread which will make it a much better offroad light than the Toro is (and most of the cheap XML's).

And here's my Joystick Mk7 on high for comparison too...









Other things to note. The Yinding starts to warm up pretty quickly, suggesting the LED's have been connected well by lots of thermal compound to the head unit. Overall quality seems very high, and I'm impressed with it for what it cost. Even on low power, the light is plenty useable for moderate paced offroad riding, and medium beam is more than enough for anything except full on DH trail riding at night. Beam pattern wise, it's mildly reminiscent of my old Troutie Lumen Liberator (though not quite as broad) which is easily the best offroad light I've ever used. I will however be keeping my Toro for road riding at night though, cos the tighter more focussed beam (and built in battery) make it much better suited for that purpose.


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## tmoney (Mar 1, 2004)

I have a Gemini Duo that I purchased from Jim at ActionLED. My question is do these clones have the ability to program the modes? My gemini will allow you to adjust the Hi Med Low settings in 10% power increments. So for example you can have a Hi of 90% Med of 40% and Low of 20% if you want or have a Hi of 100% med of 80% and Low of 60%. Pretty cool feature! Seems like a great deal on a bike light regardless.


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## markyboy1980 (Sep 20, 2008)

tmoney said:


> I have a Gemini Duo that I purchased from Jim at ActionLED. My question is do these clones have the ability to program the modes?


No

Sadly not. But I'd say the 3 modes it does have are well thought out. Don't have a multimeter available to measure current, but I'd guess low is about 30-40% and medium is 60-70% is high is taken to be 100%.


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

Got my Yinding 2xXM-L U2 from Fasttech today (20 days from order).

Tried it at home and snapped some comparison shots for reference. Nothing like proper beamshots but thought they might be of interest.

It really is tiny








Floodier than the 3xXML. Will probably feel like shorter throw in use.








Brighter, cooler colour and less floody than the Magicshine MJ-872








Finally. A lot brighter, whiter and floodier than my old MJ808 (P7)








I think, changing one lens to more spot would make this a really really good helmet light.
Cheers
/Johan


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nice shots modig.
I'm interested in seeing how the 2x compares to the 3x out in the real world.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Extremely bluish...hope some of this is reflect of the blue housing anodisation.


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

the mayor said:


> Nice shots modig.
> I'm interested in seeing how the 2x compares to the 3x out in the real world.


Thanks. I'll try to get out and make some proper comparison shots and post back here.

/Johan


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

bhocewar said:


> Extremely bluish...hope some of this is reflect of the blue housing anodisation.


No, I have a red one, and I'd say his photos are pretty spot on (I also have the 3 XML he's comparing it to).

However, when out on the trail, and using both of these lights together (the Duo clone and the triple XML), I don't really see the "blue" tint so much, if at all.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks Markyboy180 and Modig for the pics!:thumbsup:
It looks smaller then my Duo.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

fightnut said:


> No, I have a red one, and I'd say his photos are pretty spot on (I also have the 3 XML he's comparing it to).
> 
> However, when out on the trail, and using both of these lights together (the Duo clone and the triple XML), I don't really see the "blue" tint so much, if at all.


fightnut,
How would you compare the 2 lights?
I have the 3x
Is the 2x worth getting?


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

the mayor said:


> fightnut,
> How would you compare the 2 lights?
> I have the 3x
> Is the 2x worth getting?


Absolutely worth getting. I think it's the best deal going right now.

As far as how it compares to my 3xml:

1. Significantly smaller

2. Significantly lighter

3. Cost less (once you add in upgraded battery to 3xml, which is pretty much a must). Like I said, I'm into the 3xml for $100 with upgraded battery. With current prices, it would be more like $$85 for light and upgraded battery.

4. _Almost_ as bright. Doesn't have the throw or "punch" of the 3 xml, but with some different optics, or maybe reflectors instead, it could have very decent throw.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Gharddog03 said:


> It looks smaller then my Duo.


Gharddog, do you have any calipers to measure your Gemini?
I get 44mm wide x 34.4mm deep (front to back) x 24.2mm high (not including mount) for the Duo clone with my digital calipers.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

fightnut said:


> Gharddog, do you have any calipers to measure your Gemini?
> I get 44mm wide x 34.4mm deep (front to back) x 24.2mm high (not including mount) for the Duo clone with my digital calipers.


No I don't.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

fightnut said:


> A
> 
> 4. _Almost_ as bright. Doesn't have the throw or "punch" of the 3 xml, but with some different optics, or maybe reflectors instead, it could have very decent throw.


Thanks for the reply!
I have a 3x....and agree with you. But if it's brighter....I'm going to keep it... for now.
But I might get this 2x....or a SS2x xml2...to replace the Hi-Max single U2 light on my helmet.


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

Got out a short spin tonight but doing beamshots was trickier than I figured. Will have to do this again but find a better place and mount the lights to my bars. I didn't have a tripod for my camera and I managed to point the lights a bit differently so it'll be hard to make a proper comparison. At least the are all shot with the same exposure (F2.0, 1/3 s, ISO 800) and whitebalance (daylight). My bike is about 20 m away.You can click the image for larger size. (Or go here for even larger https://privat.bahnhof.se/wb594059/test/Comparison.JPG )








The med in the Yinding is much more sensible than on the 3xXML where there is almost no difference to high. I think that I would have a hard time to tell the beam pattern apart on the trail.

Big win for the Yinding since it's so much smaller and lighter. I haven't tested battery properly but I find the short leads stupid but not a real problem since I already had an extension.

Cheers
/Johan


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Wow. Thanks Johan.


----------



## siimot (Feb 3, 2011)

Just ordered this light, has anyone found any optics to make it slighly more spotty ?
Was going to replace just one of the optics.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Gharddog03 said:


> No I don't.


Use a ruler.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks for the pictures Johan. Nice work

I wonder why the triple on medium (2 led's lit) looks as bright as the Duo clone on high. Is the triple drawing more current, or are the optics of the duo sucking up all the light energy? Perhaps the Duo outhrows the triple? The triple looks to be much floodier than the duo also, which is a positive in my book. 

Based on these pictures, I would buy the triple before the duo. What do you all think?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I just got back from a ride where I ran into a guy with a real Duo.
My 3x is brighter and floodier on medium....and even more brighter on high.

I don't know why people say there isn't much difference between high and medium. If you shine it on a wall at close range, there isn't. But outside...it is very noticable.

I might look at a Duo clone or a SSx2 for a helmet light.....but I like the 3x for the handlebar in the woods.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

The 3x is no slouch that's for sure.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Gharddog03 said:


> The 3x is no slouch that's for sure.


Yep, that's for sure. Keep in mind most of the tri-clones are just standard XM-L T-6. Shouldn't be too long before you start seeing them in U2 or with XM-L2's. Right now I'd like to see a SSX2 with* XM-L2 (U2).* Ha!, for that matter anything with XM-L2 U2 is going to rock.

When I first got my tri-clone I compared it to my Gloworm X2 (v2) with XM-L U2's. Both lamps compared very well as far as output ( on high ) goes with the Tri-clone having perhaps a bit more throw because of the tri-reflector set-up.

If I were going to go with a super cheap Chinese combo set-up for MTB'ing I would either go with a combo Tri-clone on the bars / single XM-L (U2) emitter clone lamp on the helmet OR Duo clone on the bars and SSX2 on the helmet. The first combo would have a bit more throw with the second a bit more flood.

Yep, if you can afford $80 for a Chinese combo set-up you can rock the night. Spend another $30 or $50 for a better battery and you're set.


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## Posher (Oct 13, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yep, that's for sure. Keep in mind most of the tri-clones are just standard XM-L T-6. Shouldn't be too long before you start seeing them in U2 or with XM-L2's. Right now I'd like to see a SSX2 with* XM-L2 (U2).* Ha!, for that matter anything with XM-L2 U2 is going to rock.
> 
> When I first got my tri-clone I compared it to my Gloworm X2 (v2) with XM-L U2's. Both lamps compared very well as far as output ( on high ) goes with the Tri-clone having perhaps a bit more throw because of the tri-reflector set-up.
> 
> ...


Cat-man-do, I recently ordered a SSX2 to run on my helmet, and am struggling to pick out a flood to go with it. I was pretty sold on the duo clone, until seeing the picture above with the three XML beam shot, maybe I there is something I am missing but it looks like the 3xml destroys the duo clone in both flood and throw? Is there something I am missing? Could you explain the reason for matching the duo clone to the SSX2 and not the tri-clone?

I am ready to order something but would feel much better picking a sound option from those with experience, no matter how many threads I read it will not make up for those of you who have actually seen these lights firsthand


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Like fightnut said, one of the main things that the Duo clone has going for it is the really small size. The triple has to be pretty cheap by now, on the other hand. I remember seeing the light-head-only option for around $35 a couple of months ago.

By the way, the original seller of the xm-l2 version no longer has them, but I found this alternative:
Free shipping 1Set CREE XML2 T6 3B Bike Light 1600lm Waterproof Bicycle Light LED HeadLamp + 8.4v Battery Pack + Charger-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

On sale for $69.81.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

varider said:


> On sale for $69.81.


Damn, no more 49.99$. That's Gemini territory for me. Since I wouldn't use the battery.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Gharddog03 said:


> Damn, no more 49.99$. That's Gemini territory for me. Since I wouldn't use the battery.


The xml versions are still available on fasttech for 51.18. The xm-l2 versions were always more expensive.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

And there's still these at Wallbuys.com with XM-L-U2's


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Posher said:


> Cat-man-do, I recently ordered a SSX2 to run on my helmet, and am struggling to pick out a flood to go with it. I was pretty sold on the duo clone, until seeing the picture above with the three XML beam shot, maybe I there is something I am missing but it looks like the 3xml destroys the duo clone in both flood and throw? Is there something I am missing? Could you explain the reason for matching the duo clone to the SSX2 and not the tri-clone?
> 
> I am ready to order something but would feel much better picking a sound option from those with experience, no matter how many threads I read it will not make up for those of you who have actually seen these lights firsthand


As I said above...after comparing my 3x with a Duo....I am sticking with the 3x.
It's a little bigger...but a LOT brighter.
Here;s one for $40
SecurityIng® 3X CREE XM-L T6 LED 3800Lm LED Headlight Headlamp and Bicycle Light:Amazon:Sports & Outdoors
But the supplied battery will only run about 1 1/4 hours on high....so you may need a stronger battery.
I am probably going to get a SSx2 or a Duo for my helmet....


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## J.R.A. (Nov 21, 2012)

I just purchased one of the Gemini clones from Fast Tech and like other posters that have asked if I want to make the light a little more spotty what lense would you need to exchange it with? I know it 20mm in diameter but what angle do I need to get? Do I need a 5* angle, a 10* or a 15*???? Please help. Thanks.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

the mayor said:


> It's a little bigger...but a LOT brighter.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I would disagree. Granted, terms like "little" and "LOT" are relative terms and will have different meanings for different people.
> ...


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

J.R.A. said:


> I just purchased one of the Gemini clones from Fast Tech and like other posters that have asked if I want to make the light a little more spotty what lense would you need to exchange it with? I know it 20mm in diameter but what angle do I need to get? Do I need a 5* angle, a 10* or a 15*???? Please help. Thanks.


There was a lot of optics talk on page 9 of the d99 thread
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/ultrafire-d99-promising-new-2x-light-832167-9.html
That's a good place to start

If you want spotty then you would get 5 degrees or smaller


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## bmoney (Jul 12, 2007)

In regards to Cat-man-do looking for a SSX2 with XM-L2 (U2). Is this what you are looking for: 
Black Color SolarStorm X2 2*Cree XM-L2 2200-Lumen Led Bike Light Without Battery Pack - Bicycle Lights Lamp Cap - Bicycle Light & Headlamp Worldwide Free Shipping!!!

I have been reading through pages and pages of posts trying to educate my self on the current options and like most people trying to get the most bang for my buck and spend as little as possible at the same time. My wife is not convinced that I even need lights. So I am looking at maybe ordering the above. With a better battery.

Would it be a bad idea to even just order 2 of these?


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

fightnut said:


> And there's still these at Wallbuys.com with XM-L-U2's


Already sold out.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Gharddog03 said:


> Already sold out.


Looks like it's just the black ones are sold out. They still have reds and blues (for now).


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

fightnut said:


> the mayor said:
> 
> 
> > It's a little bigger...but a LOT brighter.
> ...


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

the mayor said:


> fightnut said:
> 
> 
> > Of course you would...
> ...


----------



## klydesdale (Feb 6, 2005)

fightnut said:


> Gharddog, do you have any calipers to measure your Gemini?
> I get 44mm wide x 34.4mm deep (front to back) x 24.2mm high (not including mount) for the Duo clone with my digital calipers.


My Gemini Duo measures basically those same dimensions with my cheap plastic calipers.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

klydesdale said:


> My Gemini Duo measures basically those same dimensions with my cheap plastic calipers.


Copy that. Used a plastic ruler I had laying around and pretty much dead on with the same dimensions.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

bmoney said:


> *In regards to Cat-man-do looking for a SSX2 with XM-L2 (U2). Is this what you are looking for: *
> Black Color SolarStorm X2 2*Cree XM-L2 2200-Lumen Led Bike Light Without Battery Pack - Bicycle Lights Lamp Cap - Bicycle Light & Headlamp Worldwide Free Shipping!!!
> 
> I have been reading through pages and pages of posts trying to educate my self on the current options and like most people trying to get the most bang for my buck and spend as little as possible at the same time. My wife is not convinced that I even need lights. So I am looking at maybe ordering the above. With a better battery.
> ...


Thanks b$. The link you posted is likely for XM-L2's using the standard T-6 bin. These will be very bright but I'm going to hold out for the U2 version. I just like the whiter tint. Currently I have the SSX2 with standard XM-L (U2) ....which is the first XM-L U2 version. When these are released with the second U2 version they will be even more awesome.

b$, if you buy two of these XM-L2 (T-6) I don't think you will be disappointed...however....one of these 880 clones might be better for the bars because of the wider beam pattern. Find one with XM-L2's and that would be even better.

Wifey should have no problem with you buying a couple "emergency home illumination light-sets"...yes, yes...in a power outage these babies will light your house for about 6 hours when on low. With two going you have all the light you need ( including one for the bedroom if you catch my drift...:ihih: )


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

fightnut said:


> the mayor said:
> 
> 
> > No need to get butthurt because I disagree with you on a couple things.
> ...


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Vista Lites..I had the 2x10w and 1 wt circa '95. I remember the older ones like you are talking about. The new cheap LEDs are amazing compared to those old lights.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

the mayor said:


> fightnut said:
> 
> 
> > I guess we have real 1st world problems arguing over bike lights, right?
> ...


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

the mayor said:


> Then I got the Nite Sun Team Issue ( which I still have )....


You can convert it into a modern light.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/convert-nightsun-led-400-500-lumens-476403.html


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mrbubbles said:


> You can convert it into a modern light.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/convert-nightsun-led-400-500-lumens-476403.html


LOL...bubs you really dug that one up now didn't you. That thread is from back in 2008. All the links are outdated and dead. When you can buy a twin XM-L lamp head for about $26 all the conversions make no sense anymore.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> LOL...bubs you really dug that one up now didn't you. That thread is from back in 2008. All the links are outdated and dead. When you can buy a twin XM-L lamp head for about $26 all the conversions make no sense anymore.


5 secs using a search engine. It can be cheaper than $26, how much is two mr16 triple cree bulbs? $5 each? Pretty sure they're dirt cheap on ebay.

Yeah, I rather get an xml dual ssx2 lighthead from lightmall for $22 instead.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mrbubbles said:


> 5 secs using a search engine. It can be cheaper than $26, how much is two mr16 triple cree bulbs? $5 each? Pretty sure they're dirt cheap on ebay.
> 
> Yeah, I rather get an xml dual ssx2 lighthead from lightmall for $22 instead.


He, he...I hear ya. When you factor in the problem of doing the DIY conversion, finding a compatible battery and having no mode changes the $22-$27 lamp head is a real no-brainer. Back then when the cheap P-7 torches came along almost no one talked about conversions anymore.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

edit: nevermind ...


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Anyone seen or tried this one? Light head only....$40...XM-L U2s....

Nitefighter BT20 1200 Lumen 4 Mode Bike Light Head Only with O Rings | eBay


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I think KD MJ 880 clone or SS X2/X3 is better option ...


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Finnaly, I`ve got it! 
It is indeed very small and light...compared to MJ808 P7 and MJ872








It is right between MJ808 P7 and MJ872. That goes for beam pattern and amount of light-
I would say around 1000-1100lm
I am very impressed with the build quality but disappointed with charger. It cuts off at 8,2V. That is waaay to early.
I will post trail beamshots in a week (including MJ808, MJ808e, MJ880, MJ872, MJ880 clone, 3xXML clone, SS2X, Lupine Tesla)


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Sweet. Patiently waiting for the beam shots.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Wow...I had no idea how small these actually are! Yes..looking forward to beam shots. I really want either a genuine Duo or one of these clones..look so cool.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Here are some quick shots


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

bhocewar said:


> Here are some quick shots


Nice comparison! Very well done. A couple of questions for you. Which MJ880 clone do you have, the one from KD? Do you have the genuine MJ872 or the $30 clone? I always like the ability of the MJ872 clone to evenly light the near field. Is it the xml solarstorm or the xm-l2?

The dual emitter lights are clearly superior to the single emitter lights. It looks like the Yinding (Duo clone) has the best throw, but that could just be a function of how it's aimed (slightly higher?). They are all pretty similar really, but the Solarstorm has the brightest hot spot. It's tough to pick a favorite. I would probably go with the MJ880 clone or the Duo clone, because of the even beam in both near- and far-field.

I'm really impressed with the Duo clone. How are they pumping out this much light in such a small housing without overheating the light? Does it get hot, or is it a superior design?

The 872 is good if you want a really bright near-field, maybe for tricky root or rock sections. It obviously has bad throw. The three dual-emitter lights are probably a better buy for most people.

Based on the picture Modig posted, the triple xml is also a good bet. It's has a proven track record, and it appears to be somewhat brighter then the three major dual emitter lights (880 clone, Solarstorm X2, Gemini Duo clone). The triple can be had for pretty cheap now, I'm sure. There's also the option of buying these lights as light-heads-only. That's especially good if you already have decent battery from action led or xeccon. The Solarstorm and the KD 880 clone are both available that way.

It seems that we have reached a new standard for cheap lights and a new era of night riding. It's probably enough for most riders to ride at their day time speeds without too much worry. The doubles are definitely in and singles are out. These new lights really open up the world of night riding for everyone.

In my opinion, the better the cheap lights get, the harder it is to justify the $200 minimum for the "good" lights. I feel sorry for the guys who only buy their lights at the bike store. $100 buys you a 400 lumen light that last 1.5 hours. $100 sent to China buys you two complete sets of lights that are two to three times as bright and last for twice as long! If you read the bike magazine this entire segment of lights, i.e. Chinese imports, is virtually ignored. If it wasn't for this forum, I would have never known this stuff was out there. Thanks guys.

Happy night riding everyone!


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

bhocewar said:


> Here are some quick shots


That 808 XML looks a lot nicer than the P7...man...I really need to upgrade


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

bhocewar, is there a chance the MJ872 was aimed a little lower then the others? 

Great comparison of lights by the way.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Very nice. Thanks.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

varider said:


> Do you have the genuine MJ872 or the $30 clone?


It is original Magicshine.



varider said:


> Is it the xml solarstorm or the xm-l2?


XML u2 from aliexpress, the first one that was selling for $33.



varider said:


> It looks like the Yinding (Duo clone) has the best throw, but that could just be a function of how it's aimed (slightly higher?).


SSX2 and MJ880 clone have noticeable better throw. They are also brighter. It doesn't have such spot it is floodier so it is hard to aim them the same.



fightnut said:


> bhocewar, is there a chance the MJ872 was aimed a little lower then the others?


No, it is veeery floody. It doesn't have any throw.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

The 872 appears to have a nice flood.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Varider, these lights are ignored because of the quality control - you never know what you get - a nice lottery. But for most people they are as good as any other more expensive alternatives. The next problem by these clones is often a stupid UI and an absent battery indication. You need to consider + and - for you.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

varider said:


> I feel sorry for the guys who only buy their lights at the bike store. $100 buys you a 400 lumen light that last 1.5 hours. $100 sent to China buys you two complete sets of lights that are two to three times as bright and last for twice as long!


It still makes sense to go to the LBS for the rider who values some support for problems or possible warranty claims. If one chooses the Chinese manufacturer/seller light I think they should go with the view that it's kind of a disposable item or be willing to repair it themselves. Some are not willing or capable of that, so local support (and hopefully better quality) suits them.


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

What is the theoretical lumen output?


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Hi there, 
most of the answers were given by member Snakes, who joined my test ride yesterday.
I will make better beam shots as soon as I get all of the lamps from my friends.

As for Yinding...it has the best beam pattern but it is sligly less bright compared to 880 clone and ssx2. It has very nice transition from side to center. 880 clone has also nice beam pattern (light spot) and ssx2 has its spot a little too bright.
MJ872 is not comparable. It is way too floody for high speed use and it needs to be combined with additional very bright lamp with beam pattern close to YD, 880 clone or ssx2 but with at least 1500 real lm, otherwise the throw is not noticable. Maybe a Mj872 and MJ880 would be great combo, but thats allready in the 300€ range.

Yinding has great heat transfer, but it has too small mass to handle all the heat.
It gets very hot (room temp, no airflow) even in low mode (0,44A at batteries), 
in high mode (1,65A at batteries) it gets too hot to hold in a matter of minutes. So be carefull and not to use high mode without airflow.
Yesterday as I was cruising back home at cca 15km/h and 15°C I ran it on high and was checking the temperature. It was warm, so there is no overheating issue while riding, just remember to switch it to low mode when stopped. Did not checked if there is some overheat protection. I leave that to someone else :cornut:
The cable connector is the same as for Magicshine (MJ880 excluded) and makes rainproof connection.
When battery low the green indicator turns red and it blinks. Strobe mode is hidden (press and hold for 3 sec), no memory mode.
The thing is twice as small as MJ872 or MJ808, three times smaller as SSX2 and maybe 4 times smaller than 880 clone.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

How are you people able to see which lights are which in the beamshot link? When I click on it, it opens a very small picture in the upper left corner of the page with no labels on any of the shots.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Does anyone have a side-by-side comparo of the real Duo vs. the clone?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yes, the warranty is the minus thing on cheap lights, but people can have their lights repaired by som electrician if they can't do it.



Vancbiker said:


> It still makes sense to go to the LBS for the rider who values some support for problems or possible warranty claims. If one chooses the Chinese manufacturer/seller light I think they should go with the view that it's kind of a disposable item or be willing to repair it themselves. Some are not willing or capable of that, so local support (and hopefully better quality) suits them.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

varider said:


> In my opinion, the better the cheap lights get, the harder it is to justify the $200 minimum for the "good" lights. I feel sorry for the guys who only buy their lights at the bike store. $100 buys you a 400 lumen light that last 1.5 hours. $100 sent to China buys you two complete sets of lights that are two to three times as bright and last for twice as long!


The LBS lights are much higher quality, have a warranty, can be brought back to the shop if they fail, and likely won't fail to start with. Its really "you get what you pay for" with this stuff so need to feel sorry for those that want to spend more to get higher quality just as they don't need to laugh at those that want to save some cash with cheaper options (like the LBS vs. Bikesdirect debate). I do agree though that when I upgraded my '90s lights last year, I had a hard time justifying the extra spend on Serfas light ($2-300) at my LBS vs. a complete 2 light Magicshine set up for $170 that has been bulletproof. I am still a bit nervous to drop $50 on one of these Duo clones when the real deal (light head only) is only $30 more and gets me some level of QC and support. I will say..these cheaper options are fascinating to me.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Khrystyan27 said:


> What is the theoretical lumen output?


Should be about 1000-1100 OTF lumens on high.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

steelhmr said:


> How are you people able to see which lights are which in the beamshot link? When I click on it, it opens a very small picture in the upper left corner of the page with no labels on any of the shots.


Do you mean picture from bhocewar?
Try this link:
https://shrani.si/f/14/Tw/4mVN1n3g/beamshots.jpg

You can also right click on it and press "save as", to download the picture.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MK96 said:


> people can have their lights repaired by som electrician if they can't do it.


Absolutely! My only experience with the China lights has been fixing a couple. That experience is what causes me to advise buyers of them to open them up and look for under-rated spec components, poor soldering, poor thermal paths, poor cable strain relief, and shoddy assembly in general. Once one has done that you'll have a reliable, good performing light.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Yeah, I realize that bike shop offer better service and the warranties probably are worth the extra cost for significant portion of the mountain biking community. You guys are obviously right about that. 

These lights are semi-disposable and the UI aren't that great. But I don't quite agree with "you get what you pay for" argument, except when it comes to batteries. These light use the same cree emitters as the big boy light manufactures. So does the warranty, better UI, better reliability, and better heat engineering justify a four fold increase in price? To me that's not real clear. Not to mention that the heart of the light, the led emitter probably goes for $5-$10 when purchased in bulk. So what does the extra $150 or $250 buy you? A $5 driver and a $30 housing? 

Last year's Gemini Duo light-head-only is $93 ($115 for the new one) from action led. You can get a solarstorm x2 lighthead for around $20-$25. So you could get three or four of those for one real Duo.

Anyway, sorry about spamming the thread with my opinions, I don't know what got into me last night.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

The Yindling does have thermal protection. I learned that last night. It was about 60deg and on high it would shut off when stopped. Didn't have it shut off while riding though.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

varider said:


> Yeah, I realize that bike shop offer better service and the warranties probably are worth the extra cost for significant portion of the mountain biking community. You guys are obviously right about that.
> 
> These lights are semi-disposable and the UI aren't that great. But I don't quite agree with "you get what you pay for" argument, except when it comes to batteries. These light use the same cree emitters as the big boy light manufactures. So does the warranty, better UI, better reliability, and better heat engineering justify a four fold increase in price? To me that's not real clear. Not to mention that the heart of the light, the led emitter probably goes for $5-$10 when purchased in bulk. So what does the extra $150 or $250 buy you? A $5 driver and a $30 housing?
> 
> ...


I agree with you in principle, but the disposable nature of some of these means you need to assign a cost to your time for the hassle of dealing with something that is a throw-away.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

AKamp said:


> The Yindling does have thermal protection. I learned that last night. It was about 60deg and on high it would shut off when stopped. Didn't have it shut off while riding though.


Thanks for reporting that! Was it complete switching off, or reducing output to the minimum? How soon after stopping it occured? Is there any warning (flickering, blinking or the like) prior to the thermal shutdown? And finally, how quickly it cools down enough to be operational again?


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

varider said:


> These lights are semi-disposable and the UI aren't that great. But I don't quite agree with "you get what you pay for" argument, except when it comes to batteries. These light use the same cree emitters as the big boy light manufactures. So does the warranty, better UI, better reliability, and better heat engineering justify a four fold increase in price? To me that's not real clear. Not to mention that the heart of the light, the led emitter probably goes for $5-$10 when purchased in bulk. So what does the extra $150 or $250 buy you? A $5 driver and a $30 housing?


You can buy cree leds for $2 per piece, but you can't really compare lights based on that.
Two things to consider:
1) R&D costs. Chinese lights manufacturers do not make their own lights, they copy euro/usa or even chinese brand name lights. $20 SSX2 lighthead is just a cheap copy of $70 original.
2) Quality control. $20 lights are horrible, some of them are REALLY horrible. Yes, if you have some skills, equipment and free time - you can fix many of them, but still there is basically no quality control at all. And the batteries...infamous chinese batteries...

And please don't compare SSX2 and gemini duo, duo has much more expensive cnc-machined case. Even its copy costs $40 for light head only, so the price difference is about $50 - and that will give you better quality (simple things like proper amount of thermal paste, better soldering, better wires - but still the difference is there) and 3 programmable brightness levels vs 3 pre-set levels on copy.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Kir said:


> You can buy cree leds for $2 per piece, but you can't really compare lights based on that.
> Two things to consider:
> 1) R&D costs. Chinese lights manufacturers do not make their own lights, they copy euro/usa or even chinese brand name lights. $20 SSX2 lighthead is just a cheap copy of $70 original.
> 2) Quality control. $20 lights are horrible, some of them are REALLY horrible. Yes, if you have some skills, equipment and free time - you can fix many of them, but still there is basically no quality control at all. And the batteries...infamous chinese batteries...
> ...


Exactly.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Of course you get better quality if you spend twice as much money. I'm not trying to argue that you shouldn't buy a real Gemini or Glowworm or whatever. I think they are all great, buy them all. Your money won't be wasted.

I'm saying that you don't have to in order to get a very bright light. That's what the Solarstorm X2, Duo clone and MJ880 clone have brought to the table. Lots of light for less than $40 (light head only). Look at the picture bhocewar posted, these things put out a ton of light. The days of having to buy $200 lights in order to go mountain biking are over.

Why shouldn't I compare these lights. At the end of the day all of these lights are just housings for two leds. If the cheap ones run the same amount of current through them as the expensive lights, they are going to put out roughly the same amount light (minus losses for optics). We know that's true because they use the same leds. If it doesn't break for a few months or a year, then what have you lost by buying them. If it does break then go buy the real stuff or try to repair it. By that time there will a newer and better emitter out anyway.

Am I the only guy on here who thinks this way?


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> Thanks for reporting that! Was it complete switching off, or reducing output to the minimum? How soon after stopping it occured? Is there any warning (flickering, blinking or the like) prior to the thermal shutdown? And finally, how quickly it cools down enough to be operational again?


Just shut off, no warning. It would have been nice I it would have just dimmed down a bit. Would turn back on almost immediately but would turn off again pretty quickly if it didn't get any airflow.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

AKamp said:


> Just shut off, no warning. It would have been nice I it would have just dimmed down a bit. Would turn back on almost immediately but would turn off again pretty quickly if it didn't get any airflow.


Be nice if it just dimmed down.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

varider said:


> We know that's true because they use the same leds.


I strongly suspect that the LEDs are not the same. Yes, they'll be a CREE XML or XML2 but I am pretty sure the cheapo lights are cutting a small corner on the bin.

Each batch of emitters yields only a portion that perform above average. The bulk of the batch are average or below. CREE charge a slightly higher price for the better performers than the average ones. The price difference between premium and average bins has been narrowing in the last couple years. In the early days of the XPG the premium bins were nearly $2 higher than average ones and in short supply. I very much believe that a clone builder would select a T3 bin over a T6 even if it saved just $.25 per LED. It is true that the output difference would small and possibly only noticeable in a side by side comparison. CREE do not mark bin codes on the LEDs so there is no visual way to know what bin you are getting.

Cheap lights are great so long as one knows it may or may not last, as long as they have at least 2 systems in use.


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

Well, i just order one of these:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/YINDING-YD-2XU2-Cree-XM-L-U2-1200LM-4-Mode-Cool-White-Bikelight-Black/1317378653.html

.. but now am kind of kicking myself for not ordering one of these:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T3-Cree-Q5-LED-250-lm-18650-Head-light-Tapping-lamp-Miner-s-lamp-headlamp-Bike/1091100081.html

.. looks like an XM-L2 U2 which some have been waaaiiiting for ??


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

PsyCro said:


> Well, i just order one of these:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/YINDING-YD-2XU2-Cree-XM-L-U2-1200LM-4-Mode-Cool-White-Bikelight-Black/1317378653.html
> 
> ...


They both use the xm-l u2. Don't let the "XML 2*U2" fool you, that means that there are two xm-l emitters. They like being tricky like that.


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

varider said:


> They both use the xm-l u2. Don't let the "XML 2*U2" fool you, that means that there are two xm-l emitters. They like being tricky like that.


Hah, yeah i just came to that conclusion myself, came back here to change my post.. buzt you beat me to it! 

Can't wait for the light in any case. With my Mini Cree on the helmet for spot and this on the bars i'm hoping i'll be set for giving our DH trail a shot!


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> I strongly suspect that the LEDs are not the same. Yes, they'll be a CREE XML or XML2 but I am pretty sure the cheapo lights are cutting a small corner on the bin.
> 
> Each batch of emitters yields only a portion that perform above average. The bulk of the batch are average or below. CREE charge a slightly higher price for the better performers than the average ones. The price difference between premium and average bins has been narrowing in the last couple years. In the early days of the XPG the premium bins were nearly $2 higher than average ones and in short supply. I very much believe that a clone builder would select a T3 bin over a T6 even if it saved just $.25 per LED. It is true that the output difference would small and possibly only noticeable in a side by side comparison. CREE do not mark bin codes on the LEDs so there is no visual way to know what bin you are getting.
> 
> Cheap lights are great so long as one knows it may or may not last, as long as they have at least 2 systems in use.


Actually exactly half of the emitters are above average and only half are below, not the bulk of the batch.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

AKamp said:


> The Yindling does have thermal protection. I learned that last night. It was about 60deg and on high it would shut off when stopped. Didn't have it shut off while riding though.


You bring up a really good point. I've been on plenty of group rides where people just leave their lights running (on high) while we're taking a break or re-grouping, and sometimes it can be kind of a long time. 
I just shake my head, because I know that not only are they running their batteries down, but are risking burning up their lights. I don't think many people realize how hot these lights get (and I mean ALL bike lights), when there is no air moving over them, and it's early Fall so it's still fairly warm out.
Not to mention they're blinding everyone when talking to them.

I always shut my lights off, or at least down to low when standing around.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

fightnut said:


> Not to mention they're blinding everyone when talking to them.


Hate that the most!


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

I asked this seller about color bin: it's 1A.

I'd say it's a real tragedy but hey, warmer bins are readily available.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

AKamp said:


> Just shut off, no warning. It would have been nice I it would have just dimmed down a bit.





Gharddog03 said:


> Be nice if it just dimmed down.


Sure. But here's interesting part: one user of that light on Russian bike forum has reported that during thermal test, it switched itself to the lower mode first, then after some more time (no cooling was provided) shut off completely.

It seems that either these lights might have different circuitry/firmware, or some of them aren't function as intended...


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

Can you post a link to that russian bike forum?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Khrystyan27 said:


> Can you post a link to that russian bike forum?


Here is a direct link to the message I've mentioned above:
http://forum.velomania.ru/showthread.php?t=40113&p=3488650&viewfull=1#post3488650


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

MegaVolt said:


> I asked this seller about color bin: it's 1A.


As usual, the cheapest led available. Probably T6 or lower brightness bin too since nobody will verify that. Price chart from fasttech for example:










> I'm saying that you don't have to in order to get a very bright light. That's what the Solarstorm X2, Duo clone and MJ880 clone have brought to the table. Lots of light for less than $40 (light head only). Look at the picture bhocewar posted, these things put out a ton of light.


You're comparing only the brightness? Thats a wrong way imo. 
You also need to get a good light's body (ss2x is not the best, duo clone is much smaller and harder to manufacture), good battery (there are NO good batteries in $50 chinese lights, plain and simple) and good UI (programmable brightness is a very nice thing to have).



> At the end of the day all of these lights are just housings for two leds. If the cheap ones run the same amount of current through them as the expensive lights, they are going to put out roughly the same amount light (minus losses for optics).


Well...you can do this:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-d...men-bike-light-high-low-beam-road-581232.html
Very very cheap, insane brightness. But would you call that a proper bicycle light?


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> The LBS lights are much higher quality, have a warranty, can be brought back to the shop if they fail, and likely won't fail to start with. Its really "you get what you pay for" with this stuff so need to feel sorry for those that want to spend more to get higher quality just as they don't need to laugh at those that want to save some cash with cheaper options (like the LBS vs. Bikesdirect debate). I do agree though that when I upgraded my '90s lights last year, I had a hard time justifying the extra spend on Serfas light ($2-300) at my LBS vs. a complete 2 light Magicshine set up for $170 that has been bulletproof. I am still a bit nervous to drop $50 on one of these Duo clones when the real deal (light head only) is only $30 more and gets me some level of QC and support. I will say..these cheaper options are fascinating to me.


True. I've been laughing all the way to the bank with 2 magic shine lights on original batteries for 4-5 years now riding 30+ night rides (or more) a season.

So the "get what you pay for" doesn't apply in my case. YMMV.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

PsyCro said:


> .. but now am kind of kicking myself for not ordering one of these:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T3-Cree-Q5-LED-250-lm-18650-Head-light-Tapping-lamp-Miner-s-lamp-headlamp-Bike/1091100081.html


Don't kick yourself just yet. I was just looking at this light and was ready to order, hell it's like $8 less then the one I bought from FastTech, *BUT* then I saw this:

"*The customs is strict with the package with battery currently ,so send with no battery now*"


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

GSJ1973 said:


> True. I've been laughing all the way to the bank with 2 magic shine lights on original batteries for 4-5 years now riding 30+ night rides (or more) a season.
> 
> So the "get what you pay for" doesn't apply in my case. YMMV.


A lot of the LBS stuff looks like DX stuff. Magicshine clones for 200$ each? No thanks.


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

I was a bit worried about the battery issue as fightnut mentioned, but I recived my light today with battery from fast tech which took 5 weeks, when I opened the box I couldn't believe how small the light head is! It just spins me out! 

Now after reading through previous threads can this light be run 2p1s (2 18650 cells.) 18650 battery pack or is there a issue with the light drawing to many amps for 2 cells?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

GSJ1973 said:


> True. I've been laughing all the way to the bank with 2 magic shine lights on original batteries for 4-5 years now riding 30+ night rides (or more) a season.
> 
> So the "get what you pay for" doesn't apply in my case. YMMV.


There are 3 tiers of lights (to me): Chinese clones (DX, etc.), "real" Chinese (Magicshine), and LBS brands. "You get what you pay for" applies to the first only and to a lesser degree the second where we are. When are you paying $30 for a light/battery, you can't honestly think this will be a long-service item in your gear closet. With that being said, seems like many get good use out of them, especially those with some electronics skills that can fix/upgrade them. My charger on my Magicshine recently went kaput; v. chincy unit...again...you get what you pay for. The question really comes down to is my time/hassle dealing with an issue like this worth the extra $$$ to get LBS lights that themselves, can have issues as well.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Trd620 said:


> Now after reading through previous threads can this light be run 2p1s (2 18650 cells.) 18650 battery pack or is there a issue with the light drawing to many amps for 2 cells?


It can run on 2 cells but they have to be in 2S1P configuration (7.4v voltage).
Iirc it draws about 1.6A on high, so 2600mAh cells will give you ~1.6 hours runtime on high.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> There are 3 tiers of lights (to me): Chinese clones (DX, etc.), "real" Chinese (Magicshine), and LBS brands. "You get what you pay for" applies to the first only and to a lesser degree the second where we are. When are you paying $30 for a light/battery, you can't honestly think this will be a long-service item in your gear closet. With that being said, seems like many get good use out of them, especially those with some electronics skills that can fix/upgrade them. My charger on my Magicshine recently went kaput; v. chincy unit...again...you get what you pay for. The question really comes down to is my time/hassle dealing with an issue like this worth the extra $$$ to get LBS lights that themselves, can have issues as well.


I have to wonder why you would want to spend money at the LBS for lights when the technology is evolving so quickly?

Think back to 3-4 years ago how much a light with the output of the original MagicShine would cost at a LBS? Some loyal LBS customer went out to their support their store and dropped north of $400 or $500 dollars for a light set. Another guy picked up a couple MS lights.

Now a few years, the LBS guy has maybe a Seca 700, hopefully not something lower. The MS light guy can throw away his lights, pick up a newer more powerful light and still have spent less money.

Imagine where lights will be at in 2-3 years?

Ultimately, to each his own.


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

Kir said:


> Iirc it draws about 1.6A on high, so 2600mAh cells will give you ~1.6 hours runtime on high.


Hey Kir, did you measure what it draws on mid?


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## John Serkaian (Oct 11, 2013)

-Archie- said:


> Sure. But here's interesting part: one user of that light on Russian bike forum has reported that during thermal test, it switched itself to the lower mode first, then after some more time (no cooling was provided) shut off completely.
> 
> It seems that either these lights might have different circuitry/firmware, or some of them aren't function as intended...


 Wouldn't the he authentic DUO also have heat dissipation issues?


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

MegaVolt said:


> Hey Kir, did you measure what it draws on mid?


Around 0,85A that is on the battery


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

Thanks a ton! So the claimed specs (50%) are pretty much spot on!
I'm thinking about getting a lighter lipo battery to put on the helmet and use it as a secondary light - trying to figure out the absolute minimum capacity for this to keep the weight to the minimum.


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

fightnut said:


> Don't kick yourself just yet. I was just looking at this light and was ready to order, hell it's like $8 less then the one I bought from FastTech, *BUT* then I saw this:
> 
> "*The customs is strict with the package with battery currently ,so send with no battery now*"


Heck i just realized that my order didn't even go through. Seems they need copies of personal documents for payment verification. And this for just a normal Visa payment.. poor, and/or shoddy and/or shady!

Looks like i need to find another online shop for this light.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I ride a lot after work and sometimes get caught out in the dark. After reading this thread, I am really interested in this Gemini Duo clone. I am between this and the Jexree Owl. I would love to hear Kir's (or anyone's) take on that light and the differences. The Gemini clone sounds like a great backup due to its size. Forgive my newbness on the forums. If I'm in the wrong spot, please point me to a review on the Owl, which seems hard to find.


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

Kir said:


> Should be about 1000-1100 OTF lumens on high.


Well, that's a shame in my opinion.

~500 lumens/LED(a powerful LED like XM-L), is a low number.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Khrystyan27 said:


> Well, that's a shame in my opinion.
> 
> ~500 lumens/LED(a powerful LED like XM-L), is a low number.


Not really if we're talking about real OTF lumens and not about overrated manufacturer's specifications.
For example Fenix BT20 drives LED at 3A in high mode and that gives about 770 OTF lumens.
All dual xml lights will give 500-600 lumens per led, you can read and compare:
Review: Lupine Piko 4 | Mountain Bike Review
Gloworm X2 ? 2013 Mtbr Lights Shootout | Mountain Bike Review

If you really need more output you can replace leds with XML2 and increase current in driver, but keep these things in mind:
1) Human eye sensivity to light is non-linear, you won't notice much difference between lets say 600 and 800 lumens compared to 200 vs 400.








On the other hand led's efficiency drops at higher current:
https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa46/amticoman/xmllumensmeasured.jpg
2) Increased light output will create much more heat and will discharge the battery *much* faster. Heat is especially important for such small lights.

So its simply not worth it to drive the leds to the max in many cases, including these gemini clones.



> I am between this and the Jexree Owl. I would love to hear Kir's (or anyone's) take on that light and the differences. The Gemini clone sounds like a great backup due to its size. Forgive my newbness on the forums. If I'm in the wrong spot, please point me to a review on the Owl, which seems hard to find.


There are no reviews of the Owl yet, but its pretty simular to SSX2 so you can look at its beamshots vs lupine/gloworm beamshots from the above links.
I haven't used these lights myself so I can only do this (click for full res):


And post my thoughts on them based on short testing in my room.

Gemini Duo clone - very small, very lightweight, should be excellent as backup light or helmet light (not the best beam for helmet use though but very, very light). Probably about ~1000 lumens output, 1.6A current draw from battery. 
Beam profile - TIR lens, almost no sidespill, very wide and floody hotspot. Not suitable to high-speed cycling on road, it just doesn't have enough throw. But should be great in forest at low speeds or as a secondary light for close-range illumination.

Jexree Owl - bigger, heavier, can be used as your main light. Build quality is good, battery is great (4400mAh compared to random 2000-4000mAh that you will get with gemini clone). Much higher current draw, about 2.3-2.5A, XML2 leds = much brighter output, probably about 1300-1400lumens or so. Middle mode is 0.6A and low is 0.2A which is roughly the same as gemini clone, but high is higher.
Beam profile - smooth reflector, usual small and bright hotspot with wide and dim sidespill. Suitable for roads, gives more throw. Probably less useful in forest but should be good enough.


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

Well I want to buy a Gemini Duo clone and a Jexree Own.

Can you post some nightshots with Gemini Duo clone?


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

What do you make of this: Latest Unique Design Cree XML 2*U2 Bike Light headlight/lamp Front Light 2300 LM 4 mode -in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com ?

Very clearly states use of XM-L2 emitters...

I accidently pressed the "buy now" button and will compare to my Fasttech one once I get it 

/Johan


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

It clearly states XML emiiters 2 x U2 ;-)


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

Of course you're right. I clearly need to brush up my reading skills 

Anyhow, it was the only place I could find it without battery so I'm happy.

/Johan


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Are these things all the same and coming from the same place? Are they clones of clones of clones? They all say "Yindling" and are XML U2s. This says it doesn't come with the battery but is ~$7 less than the one on Fasttech or DX.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I think the cloned body is just only one, with the outside a bit reworked and the inner electronics can be absolute wilderness (that can be a clone of clone of clone of ...)


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Christmas comes early...


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

do you collect them? :-D


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Lights weigh-in


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

Nice.

Looking forward to whatever comes after weigh-in 

/Johan


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

bhocewar said:


> Christmas comes early...


:eekster::eekster::eekster::eekster::eekster:
:eekster::eekster::eekster::eekster::eekster:


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

bhocewar......you might want to do your own thread so your info doesn't get buried in this one Titled "Gemini Duo clone"


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

the mayor said:


> bhocewar......you might want to do your own thread so your info doesn't get buried in this one Titled "Gemini Duo clone"


I started a thread called "2013 Budget Light Shootout" to try and get info like this in one place. That would be a great place to post it. Budget lights reviews are often scattered


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

So we shall define some measurement rules there (photos, current, ...)


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Ok I moved my test results here:

2013 Budget Light Shootout


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)




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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

I had a weird problem with my Duo clone last night. 

Indicator went from green to red, and within seconds, the light shut off.

I assumed battery was dead (although it had been fully charged, and we were only about 1hr 40m into the ride).

I swapped to a spare battery, light turned right on and I finished the ride.

Today I thought, "gee seems like a fresh battery should have lasted longer then it did", so I plugged it back into the stock battery, set it in front of a fan, turned it on high, and it ran for a little over an hour!!

So then I thought maybe it overheated last night and shut itself off. It was kind of warm (low 50's), and it did happen during a climb, where maybe it wasn't getting optimal air moving over it.
But if that were the case, I wouldn't think it would turn right back on when I swapped to another battery. Or would it?

What do you guys think?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

You could have tried just unplugging and replugging the first battery into the light. Maybe when you unplugged the battery it reset the circuit. Or maybe it's the quality of the original battery? The voltage of the cells dropped because of the high current, causing the light to think it was almost dead? I don't know. 

This sudden turn-off is not a good situation.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

varider said:


> Maybe when you unplugged the battery it reset the circuit. Or maybe it's the quality of the original battery? The voltage of the cells dropped because of the high current, causing the light to think it was almost dead.
> 
> This sudden turn-off is not a good situation.


X2. I've noticed this happening with my Olympia's running off a 4 cell in high. But mine just drops down to lower setting. I would suggest get quality packs and see what it does. My gemini duos run fine on high with a 4 cell unless the overheat protection kicks in and drops down to a lower setting.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Yinding goes from green to red to blinking red. 
It might be that the overheat protection kicked in and turned it off.
If the body was too hot to hold it in your hands for a few seconds, then it overheated.
As I mentioned before. Dont run it on high when not moving at least 10km/h. That goes for all lamps including branded.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

varider said:


> You could have tried just unplugging and replugging the first battery into the light. Maybe when you unplugged the battery it reset the circuit. Or maybe it's the quality of the original battery? The voltage of the cells dropped because of the high current, causing the light to think it was almost dead? I don't know.
> 
> This sudden turn-off is not a good situation.


Could be onto something there. I noticed a quirk with mine, if you quickly plug battery into the light -- even if the battery is freshly charged -- it will blink red. But if you slowly plug in the battery, the switch illuminates green.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

I tested original Yinding battery and its capacity is around 3500mAh. Green indicator light goes red at around 6,2V. Charger charges battery pack to 8,22V and when charging completly empty batteries it overheats and alternating on/off (red/green). I drilled some holes to add some cooling and we will see if it gets better.


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## steviemidnight (Apr 2, 2009)

Anyone purchased a yinding recently? If so from where?
I ordered from fasttech, although the site states its in stock. My order is showing as restocking as of mid last week!
Dx and wallbuys appear to be out of stock of this in black.

I feel I may have missed out on this little gem.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

steviemidnight said:


> Anyone purchased a yinding recently? If so from where?
> I ordered from fasttech, although the site states its in stock. My order is showing as restocking as of mid last week!
> Dx and wallbuys appear to be out of stock of this in black.
> 
> I feel I may have missed out on this little gem.


I ordered one from Fasttech on Friday. Just checked my order and it shows shipping tomorrow, so we will see. I will update tomorrow


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## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

GJHS said:


> I ordered one from Fasttech on Friday. Just checked my order and it shows shipping tomorrow, so we will see. I will update tomorrow


I placed my order two weeks ago and it has said restocking the entire time.


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

Fasttech seem to be having issues with shipping as well. Hongkong Post - Notices - Delay In Outbound Air Mail Services .

I recently ordered without battery (to replace a drowned MJ872 light head) from this alibaba seller Latest Unique Design Cree XML 2*U2 Bike Light headlight/lamp Front Light 2300 LM 4 mode -in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com
They shipped in a couple of days but I'm still waiting delivery.

/Johan


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## steviemidnight (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks fir the info. Hmmm well least I'm not alone. I raised a case at the weekend but have had no response from them. I'll update this thread if it ships or I get a response.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

bhocewar said:


> I tested original Yinding battery and its capacity is around 3500mAh. Green indicator light goes red at around 6,2V. Charger charges battery pack to 8,22V and when charging completly empty batteries it overheats and alternating on/off (red/green). I drilled some holes to add some cooling and we will see if it gets better.


Just throw that thing in the trash and buy one from action led.


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## BeDrinkable (Sep 22, 2008)

steviemidnight said:


> I'll update this thread if it ships or I get a response.


I ordered a light from Kaidomain a bit ago and they shipped the battery and the light separately, because of the delay noted above for battery shipping. The fasttech restocking issue is, I believe, separate. I had a duo clone on order with them for two weeks and it continued to show 'restocking' the whole time. I eventually cancelled the order after they (seemed to) ignore my questions. They are usually better at responding, so my guess is that particular light is on the indefinite wait list ...


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

steviemidnight said:


> Thanks fir the info. Hmmm well least I'm not alone. I raised a case at the weekend but have had no response from them. I'll update this thread if it ships or I get a response.


I noticed you're not in the states, the banner up top said "Hong Kong Post Alert: FastTech was told of a 15-day delay at Hong Kong Post for non-US shipping address. FastTech offers at least 3 alternative shipping carriers and we are starting to re-route non-US orders away from Hong Kong Post."

I chose DHL as my shipping option here in the US. So that's what is probably holding it up


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Hmm. I ordered 2 from FastTech the 8th - blue light shows "Scheduled Ship Date: 11/11/2013", red light shows "Ready to ship".


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## BeDrinkable (Sep 22, 2008)

wadester said:


> Hmm. I ordered 2 from FastTech the 8th - blue light shows "Scheduled Ship Date: 11/11/2013", red light shows "Ready to ship".


When I ordered mine, it showed a scheduled ship date for 2-3 days. When that date came, it changed to "restocking" and remained there until I cancelled it.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah mine has been in the mail for three weeks now.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

There's some black ones for sale on Fleabay, but they're $75 and ship from China.

For that kind of money you'd be better off buying a real Gemini Duo lighthead (the old 2013 model) from Action LED, $83.70 with closeout13 coupon (if you don't need the battery, charger, and accessories).


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## steviemidnight (Apr 2, 2009)

Well fasttech responded. It's out of stock as expected and they have been unable to restock.

Actual response:
"We apologize that the item you purchased SKU 1443727 is currently out of stock due to the production problem, we have been looking for alternative sources of supply these days, but we could not find it from the markets or manufacturers.

Sorry for causing you such an inconvenience, the suppliers is not able to provide the ETA of the stock, would you mind have an exchange? Or if you prefer to have a refund for this item, please let me know and I will arrange for you right away."


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## tmoney (Mar 1, 2004)

I received a similar message from Fasttech for my duo clone. It sat in Hong Kong for 2 weeks before they just sent me a refund. I like the light would like to find one.


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## luigi4711 (Oct 21, 2013)

In another, german forum, someone just posted a message he got from Wallbuys:

hello xxxx

good news is coming, the yinding factory just tell me that they will finish the black bike lamp soon, and if customers buy it ,wallbuys can ship it in 19th November , greeting !!
if members want to buy the black one, it is time to buy now !!
$46.46 Yinding 2 x CREE XM-L U2 1800LM 4-Mode White LED Bike Light / Headlamp-Black(4x18650)

Without any guarantees or relationships to Wallbuys (other than having bought and received two of them myself from there, ordered Oct 22nd, delivered today), just bridging the message...


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## steviemidnight (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks it's worth a punt, else I was planning on buying it in red and spraying it


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

I had similar issues w/Fastech showing my light as "in processing" at the beginning of October when others started showing it as out of stock. I cancelled the order and bought through DX. Recieved it in about 2 weeks. They're still showing it as available to ship:
YINDING YD-2XU2 2 x CREE XM-L U2 1200lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light / Headlamp - Red (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

At the time I bought the above (red), both the black and blue were shown as sold out. The blue is now showing stock:
YINDING YD-2XU2 2 x CREE XM-L U2 1200lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Headlamp - Blue (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

....while the black is still listed as sold out:
YINDING YD-2XU2 2 x Cree XM-L U2 1200lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light / Headlamp - Black (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

If you hate blue or red...you can make them silver by dipping stripped housing (doing some desoldering) into a NaOH 25-30% water solution (oven cleaners, drain uncloggers, Mr Muscle) for 5-10minutes and give it a good after wash with water. Be carefull and work with gloves.
You can also anodise them back to black if you want, but this process is a bit harder to do, so best to find a local company that anodises stuff. It shouldnt be expensive.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

We've been a bit busy lately but I found time today to catch up with the forum and thought I'd put in a few observations here. 
The rated LED life span is not when they burn out (stop working). Rather it's when their output degrades to 70% of the original output. The hotter they get the faster they degrade.
Gemini Duo's and Gloworm X2's both have the led's mounted directly to the housing so there is a fast and efficient path for the heat to move away from the led and into the air.
From what I see in the pictures of this clone, the led is mounted to a subassembly which is then mounted to the housing and insulated from it by a gasket. If the housing is not getting too hot that's a bad sign that the heat is being held in the subassembly.

There was speculation that the housing of these clones was same as the Duo. Obviously not so.

There are counterfeit CREE led's being sold in China. Even if these lights use the real thing they are almost certainly the cheaper low bins. Someone mentioned "why does it matter. If there getting the same current there putting out the same light" Certainly not true. They convert less of that current to light and more to heat.

At $42 plus some time these may look like a bargain but I'd wager that 3 years down the road it will look a little different. I've had very few customers with an issue after 2-3 years with their Gemini light.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

I don't think anyone here doubts a Gemini is a better product. It's just a question of what will determine the light's lifespan: product failure or obsolescence due to newer technology. If I can get 2 years of use out of this thing for $50 and then buy the next generation for another $50? That works for me. My hangup on these products is that I treat it like a troubled friend from the past: Fun to hang out with, but I don't tell my wife about it, don't let my kids near it, don't recommend it to friends and it sleeps(charges) outside.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Action LED Lights said:


> Gemini Duo's and Gloworm X2's both have the led's mounted directly to the housing so there is a fast and efficient path for the heat to move away from the led and into the air.
> From what I see in the pictures of this clone, the led is mounted to a subassembly which is then mounted to the housing and insulated from it by a gasket.


Are you sure? On this picture, it's clear that LED base is mounted directly to the light case's surface:











> At $42 plus some time these may look like a bargain but I'd wager that 3 years down the road it will look a little different. I've had very few customers with an issue after 2-3 years with their Gemini light.


Maybe, but IMHO it's highly unlikely to expect someone not to upgrade the light for three years...


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

These lights are more likely to be convenient for DIY people that have some electrical skills/knowledge. After 2-3 years we throw away those emitters and get more efficient replacement. But here in this duo clone it might be a great fun to replace them :-D


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MK96 said:


> But here in this duo clone it might be a great fun to replace them :-D


Why? I see no obstacles to put there new LEDs on two separate round bases...


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I mean that light is a bit small. But yes, you can replace them with 2 copper based.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> Are you sure? On this picture, it's clear that LED base is mounted directly to the light case's surface


Your right. The picture I was looking at was the rear of the light.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Action LED Lights said:


> There are counterfeit CREE led's being sold in China. Even if these lights use the real thing they are almost certainly the cheaper low bins. Someone mentioned "why does it matter. If there getting the same current there putting out the same light" Certainly not true. They convert less of that current to light and more to heat.


IF they use different bins or IF they use counterfeit led's.

I'm not convinced that the three main cheap dual emitter lights actually use counterfeit led or subpar leds. They seem pretty good to me.

A year from now there will be something brighter and all the current stuff will be obsolete anyway. The cheap light may or may not be working a year from now, but that doesn't even seem relevant because we will just buy the new stuff anyway.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

varider said:


> A year from now there will be something brighter and all the current stuff will be obsolete anyway. The cheap light may or may not be working a year from now, but that doesn't even seem relevant because we will just buy the new stuff anyway.


The rapid improvement of led's and the occasional need for repair is why we are working on a modular design that will be easily upgradeable by any user. Hope to have it out for next fall.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Action LED Lights said:


> The rapid improvement of led's and the occasional need for repair is why we are working on a modular design that will be easily upgradeable by any user. Hope to have it out for next fall.


^^ This guy gets it!
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!


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## Huckler (Nov 9, 2004)

Fasttech delivered. After the same messages regarding the shipping, it finally showed up after about 3+ weeks. Everything seems to be in order and virtually identical to the DUO. However, keep in mind that you don't get a cord extention (which I use all the time), the head band is of far less quality, you don't get a helmet mount, and obviously if you ever have an issue, throw it away. The light however is nice IMO.

I've got three lights from Gemini and have been very happy with them, I just got this as a relatively cheap experiment for a bar mount climbing light, which it is more than sufficient for.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Action LED Lights said:


> The rapid improvement of led's and the occasional need for repair is why we are working on a modular design that will be easily upgradeable by any user. Hope to have it out for next fall.


Looking forward to it. Are you designing yourself, or is it a collaboration with one of the major companies?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Mine arrived on friday…. A month from order.

Initial shock because the box showed the generic single XML I have a few of already.

Light head looks top quality. Battery, not so much. 

I had to set my fan on high to cool it below "ouch" during the runtime tests.
Ran for three hours on "high"… the output was hugely diminished for the last hour. With a gloworm battery I got more proper runtime but it didn't throttle back at the end. 

Looks like I'll mount it between shifter and grip on the MTB, so no need for a remote switch.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

varider said:


> Looking forward to it. Are you designing yourself, or is it a collaboration with one of the major companies?


TBD, my design but some aspects may be in partnership with others. In my former life I was a design engineer specializing in new product development so I have the contacts to bring it together.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok just got a message from Fasttech

Sorry for the wait.

Your order is delayed due to 1443727, it is out of stock at present. it will be back in back in 2-3 busiess days. We will ship it once we get 1443727 on hand.

So don't give up yet


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## Pr3dator (Jul 14, 2013)

znomit said:


> Mine arrived on friday&#8230;. A month from order.
> 
> Initial shock because the box showed the generic single XML I have a few of already.


I got mine after 3, almost 4 weeks wait and also got shocked when I saw that it was the wrong box 

Only problem we had was that the blue light that we ordered was sold out, so they just sent our 2 red ones without asking and was going to send the last one when it was back in stock. A bit irretating cause if we knew we had just asked for a red one more. Now we didnt want to pay Customs fee twice so we cancelled the blue light. In the end we didnt pay customs at all, wich made it a very good deal.

Was testing them last night, worked very well. Once i thought that it was a bit too dark around me, but later found out that the light was on to the weakest switch.

Very happy with the light!!!


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Went out for a ride tonight. Beam is actually pretty smooth on the road, doesn't dump a ton of light right in front of your wheel, no real hotspot anywhere. On the hilly singletrack it worked very very well, except now I need a brighter helmet light.

I still think for road use I'd like to gut one and put XPGs in and a taskled lflex driver.


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## superkermit (Nov 14, 2013)

mrbubbles said:


> Just got mine, shipped on the 15th of Sept.
> 
> First thing I did was removed the mount and installed a quick release one.
> 
> ...


Nice mount.

Can I ask for a link to the mounts please?

I have ordered two of these lights.


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## mark__gti (Nov 17, 2013)

Ordered one of these last night, does any body know if this (PANNOVO B-C04 Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case for Bike Lamp - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme) battery pack will fit?


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## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

Any updates on those that have tried some spot optics?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Tested the thermal cutoff today.
Cuts in around 70C (IR thermometer). 
No hysteresis so theres a bit of flicker before it come fully on… guess thats a good visual warning. Cuts all modes back by half.


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## superkermit (Nov 14, 2013)

mark__gti said:


> Ordered one of these last night, does any body know if this (PANNOVO B-C04 Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case for Bike Lamp - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme) battery pack will fit?


I hope so.

I just ordered one too. (Need another, but wanting to test fit first)

Anyone know where to get a cheap holder/bag for this from?


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

It will fit, I just checked that.
Holder/bag for what? Pannovo battery case will come with pouch.


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## superkermit (Nov 14, 2013)

holder too


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

Pannovo connector seems to be threaded on the outside, while Yinding connector is not.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

wadester said:


> Hmm. I ordered 2 from FastTech the 8th - blue light shows "Scheduled Ship Date: 11/11/2013", red light shows "Ready to ship".





BeDrinkable said:


> When I ordered mine, it showed a scheduled ship date for 2-3 days. When that date came, it changed to "restocking" and remained there until I cancelled it.


Yeah, the blue light reverted to "restocking" - so I cancelled it but then the red light shipped the next day. This was a surprise, and I had reordered both red and blue via DX - but those are "Processing". HA! OTOH, I've got optics/reflectors for a wide range of angles - 10, 45, 60 degrees from ebay (now in hand) and 30 degrees coming from Fasttech. Stock is supposed to be 15 degrees, so I will be able to experiment with that one light.

The last time I had a "perfect" head/bar light combo, I was running NiteRider incandescents. 15 watt spot on the head, and a 15 watt flood on the bar - overvolted to 20 watts. The flood beam was so dispersed that it appeared dimmer than the spot running both at 15w, but overvolting it brightened it up and then it color matched the spot (and drowned out the spill from the spot so I could see surface contrast well). But then I made the mistake of buying a Cateye Tripleshot - which was so much whiter/brighter (and midrange spot/flood) that it made even an overvolted spot beam look dim.

I'm concerned that even if I do get a very tight spot and a very wide flood on these DuoClones that I'll have to turn the spot down to match the lower brightness of the flood. At least they have seem to have the brightness to tolerate that. So is it lumens/ft^2? Or lumens/ angle^2?

Googling, I find 
"In physics, intensity is the power transferred per unit area. In the SI system, it has units watts per metre squared (W/m2)." 
and 
"In photometry and radiometry intensity has a different meaning: it is the luminous or radiant power per unit solid angle. This can cause confusion in optics, where intensity can mean any of radiant intensity, luminous intensity or irradiance, depending on the background of the person using the term. Radiance is also sometimes called intensity, especially by astronomers and astrophysicists, and in heat transfer."

Luminous Intensity is measured in candela (= lumens/solid radian or steradian). " Solid angles are often used in physics and astrophysics where they are usually calculated as area divided by distance." In 2D, you can get arc length by multiplying the angle (in radians) by the radius - or in this case the distance from emitter to target. Note: steradians do not equal radians^2.


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## johnnyboy315 (Nov 18, 2013)

*Help*



Kir said:


> Not really if we're talking about real OTF lumens and not about overrated manufacturer's specifications.
> For example Fenix BT20 drives LED at 3A in high mode and that gives about 770 OTF lumens.
> All dual xml lights will give 500-600 lumens per led, you can read and compare:
> Review: Lupine Piko 4 | Mountain Bike Review
> ...


Kir, you seem to know what your talking about, can you save me countless hours of research and link me 2 lights (1 main, 1 helmet) from fast tech you would buy for around 100$'s total. GREATLY APPRECIATED.


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## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

Just got my shipping notice from FastTech. I ordered a black one on Oct 28 at which point the status was pending for about a week and then out of stock with no ETA for 2 weeks. On 11/16 it changed to an estimated in stock date of 11/18.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

wadester said:


> Googling, I find
> "In physics, intensity is the power transferred per unit area. In the SI system, it has units watts per metre squared (W/m2)."
> and
> "In photometry and radiometry intensity has a different meaning: it is the luminous or radiant power per unit solid angle. This can cause confusion in optics, where intensity can mean any of radiant intensity, luminous intensity or irradiance, depending on the background of the person using the term. Radiance is also sometimes called intensity, especially by astronomers and astrophysicists, and in heat transfer."
> ...


Really?...Do we need all this? Hey, we're not rocket scientist here. Let's keep it simple.

Most of us just want something that will work. Now if it becomes possible to buy replacement optics that will work with these lamps there are people here who will be interested. In comparison standard optics on the Gloworm X2 lamps include one spot and one flood optic. Seems to work and provides a nice balanced spread of light. If an after market optic is available that will add a little more spread and will drop in to the Duo clone without modding that would be super.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> Really?...Do we need all this? Hey, we're not rocket scientist here. Let's keep it simple.
> 
> Most of us just want something that will work. Now if it becomes possible to buy replacement optics that will work with these lamps there are people here who will be interested. In comparison standard optics on the Gloworm X2 lamps include one spot and one flood optic. Seems to work and provides a nice balanced spread of light. If an after market optic is available that will add a little more spread and will drop in to the Duo clone without modding that would be super.


Actooaly, I AM a rocket scientist! That was me thinking out loud - but the point is that if I can describe why that one old lightset was perfect, I may be able to get the same match without buying everyfreakingthing.

A lot of the modern lights seem to be trying to be one light that does it all - and that is too much of a compromise, I think. A good bar light, mounted as low as possible to throw contrast shadows and reveal the texture of the trail out to about 30', and a tight spot to reach out beyond that and find the curves before you get to them without wiping out the contrast shadows - that's what I want. No manufacturers have a good 2-light system, but maybe there are starting to be enough parts to mod one up.

If I had all the money and time in the world, I could just stick things together to see how they work - but I'd rather go ride. If I can describe the specs of what I want - I just need to keep an eye out for that, and let the rest go by.


----------



## jokipea (Apr 14, 2009)

botanicbiker said:


> Just got my shipping notice from FastTech. I ordered a black one on Oct 28 at which point the status was pending for about a week and then out of stock with no ETA for 2 weeks. * On 11/16 it changed to an estimated in stock date of 11/18.*


I just ordered a blue Duo clone from FastTech late on Sat the 16th. Said it was due to be shipped on Mon the 18th, late afternoon UK time got email to say it had been shipped, so we'll see how long it takes to arrive.

Already have 3 of the earlier single XML cheapo chinese lights. Was impressed with their brightness and found them a vast improvement on my previous ancient halogens. Also recently bought a FandyFire similar to the Solarstorm X2 XML lights. Way more than enough light with it on my helmet and one of the single XMLs on bars. It's light enough in weight that I added the 4 cell battery to back of helmet and the combined weight is OK for a couple of hours of night-riding.

With the Duo clone being even lighter from what the reviews say, it'll be great on helmet with SSX2 on bars.
Hopefully won't be long till I can add my opinion of this light.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

*YD vs. the real deal*

In the name of science, I picked up a real deal Gemini Duo lighthead (2013 XM-L U2 version, not the 2014 XM-L2). I only own one battery pack at the moment (the POS that came with the YD), so I couldn't do any side-to-side beam comparisons. However, when trying out the lights one after the other in my garage, I couldn't really see any difference in brightness or beam pattern. Some superficial differences I noted:


The Duo has more of a matte anodizing, the YD is glossy
The Duo switch material sticks out more and feels thicker
The Duo click is a bit firmer 
The Duo is 1mm longer front to back, otherwise the dimensions are identical
The cases have a different machining designs on top
Fit and finish of the Duo is ever so slightly better
The printing on the wires is the same
The mounting brackets appear identical

The most significant difference is the Duo has the programmable brightness levels (and has a warranty, etc.). The YD is short click L-M-H-off, the Duo is short click L-M-H, long press for off. When you cycle the Duo from H to L, there is a gradual fade, which the YD doesn't have.

I've got a couple of the Panasonic 6200 mAh battery packs on order from Hunk Lee, once they arrive from China, I'll be able to use both lights together. :band:

In these pics, the Duo is always on the right:


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

zuuds said:


> In the name of science, I picked up a real deal Gemini Duo lighthead


Many thanks! :thumbsup:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

zuuds said:


> The most significant difference is


The price is 1/4 for the Yinding!


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

znomit said:


> The price is 1/4 for the Yinding!


I would say 1/2 not 1/4. The duo complete set comes with a 5200 mAh Samsung pack which sells for $55 itself. A more apples to apples comparison would be the 2013 Duo XM-L U2 lighthead ($83.70) plus a $10 mystery mAh pack, $10 charger, and $3 mount for a total of $106.70.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

FYI

I have recently picked up the yinding from wallbuys, got the blue one

including the day I clicked submit order, it took 14 days to get the light
in my mailbox in Massachusetts. that is pretty fast for shanghai

I was able to track the shipment 100% of the time on this site

International Track and Trace service

I am extremely happy with it. for the loot, it is pretty well built. I will
replace the 4400 8.4 with my own dx pannovo 8.4
PANNOVO B-C04 Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case for Bike Lamp - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

and fill it with 3100x4 18650 protecteds

------------
no problem with charger, in fact it works properly

red to probe battery at 8.4 volts, then sniff volts
red as charging
yellow to indicate problem and retry cycle
green to indicate charged
would not charge my cold battery pack, it would blink red then
quit fast to off, then probe it again...it kept doing this for 1/2 hour
until pack warmed up. I know to never charge cold lithiums, but I
wanted to see what the charger would do.

at the end of it all, leaves the pack fully charged at 8.21-8.17

When stopped in the woods for a bit, I find the light cycled from hi to a bit dimmer, then high again, with the cycle increasing the duration of the lower mode the longer
I waited...I did not stop long enough to see if it would cut out completely
it was 32 deg and frost forming, so maybe it was always just cool enough

of all the expensive lights I have owned and also my pile o' cheap chinese clones,
this is the best built cloned one, tinest, and most practical (really works to light up the woods)

real or faux xml's ? don't care, works great, paid under 50
I looked at them with a loupe and cannot tell a difference in the dome
or phosphor/substrate vs thrunite tn11 xml u2, so it seems legit

-- it is the tiniest lightest brightest cheap deal going afaik --


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## J.R.A. (Nov 21, 2012)

Ordered my YD light on Oct 25, Sent email to FastTech on Nov 15th aking for shipping # or any info regarding my order. Nov 17th get a reply that Item is out of stock due to production problem and looking for alternate source for supply. Would I like to wait or change order to similar product. Responded saying I would like a refund of my money. The morning of the 18th I orderd the real Gemini Duo from Action LED lights cause I couldnt stand all my buddies asking me to go night riding and me having no light. Not an hour after I ordered the real Gemini I get a email from FastTech telling me my order has shipped. Not to happy with FastTech pulling moves like that. Got a 8.4V 6600mAh battery off amazon for the yinding for 22.50 bucks so I guess its not so bad I can use one of them for a bar light. Was trying to avoid spending $$$ but learned lesson. Glad I orderd from Action LED for the customer service I hear is so good in case something goes tits up


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

wallbuys seems legit too, just expect china delays

wallbuys is trying to make a presence in cpfmarketplace, so far so good but
the tolerance there is very low for shady dealers...if anyone has an issue
it'll pop up there for sure


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## superkermit (Nov 14, 2013)

I have ordered the below to test different beam profiles.

20mm 30-Degree Optical Lens for Cree XML T5 / T6 / U2 LED Emitters 20*12.8mm
20mm 15-Degree Optical Lens/Optic for Cree XM-L LED Emitters 20*12.8mm
Optical Glass Lens for LED Flashlights (2-Pack) 20mm*1.5mm / for 18650 flashlights
Cree 60-Degree Spotlight Optical Lens for Cree XR-E (5-Pack) 

Should I order a tighter beam for more throw too?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

15 is tight enough I think. I saw 8 somewhere. Where did you get these from? Fasttech? I thought combine 15 & 30, but I ordered just 15 for now.


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## superkermit (Nov 14, 2013)

Fast tech


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

2xCree XM-L2 2500-Lumen With 2 group modes LED Bicycle Light Lamp(Lamp cap only) - 2LED Bike Light - Led Bike Light - Bicycle Light & Headlamp Worldwide Free Shipping!!!
First clone of Yinding. Different lenses (beam should be wider), different button and looks like it has 10-steps brightness adjustment.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Kir said:


> 2xCree XM-L2 2500-Lumen With 2 group modes LED Bicycle Light Lamp(Lamp cap only) - 2LED Bike Light - Led Bike Light - Bicycle Light & Headlamp Worldwide Free Shipping!!!
> First clone of Yinding. Different lenses (beam should be wider), different button and looks like it has 10-steps brightness adjustment.


A clone of a clone?
Or is that a son of a clone?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Its head-only which is nice but it doesn't show the plug which I assume is a MS type. How do they do this? Do they watch sites like this to see what is hot and then the cloners go crazy and start knocking them off? Seems like that is what happened with the Solarstorm X2.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> Its head-only which is nice but it doesn't show the plug which I assume is a MS type. How do they do this? Do they watch sites like this to see what is hot and then the cloners go crazy and start knocking them off? Seems like that is what happened with the Solarstorm X2.


Simple.
The lights..and light bodies are readily available.
You can buy, say...a Solar Storm and modify it and sell it.
Or...you can buy the bodies ( that may already have the logo on them) and stick your own components ( or lack of) inside.
These "manufacturers" may be a 1 man show working in a closet....or may be an assembly line.
That is why there are so many different quality issues with Chinese lights.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

A yinding clone, you know that's going to be no good. At least it looks different, so you can tell them apart. The original has proven itself to be nice light. I would just stick with that. It's almost like there's a two or three month window where you can get the original and it works great. Then the cloners take over and then you have no idea what you are getting.


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## luigi4711 (Oct 21, 2013)

Anybody else wondered why there are no screws to hold the case together?? If these are real pictures (?), it suggests through a small rim that only the backplate can be removed, but not the front. If that assumption would be true, the LEDs need to be inserted also from the back. This would be a major difference to the original Yinding housing which is made of a single piece aluminium where the LEDs fit in from the front with very good heat sinking. 

All just assumptions though... based on looking at the pics. 

Anybody want to play lottery? ...


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

luigi4711 said:


> Anybody else wondered why there are no screws to hold the case together??


Probably cheaper to machine and build up.
Actually the tiny size of these things makes me wonder how cheap they will get.

Dear Yinding, make me a 30$ XPG single for xmas. I've been good.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

You can get SS X2 head now for $19 - they are still going cheaper, but who knows what's inside - kinder surprise  Like varider wrote after months clones take over and flood the market.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

luigi4711 said:


> Anybody else wondered why there are no screws to hold the case together?? If these are real pictures (?), it suggests through a small rim that only the backplate can be removed, but not the front. If that assumption would be true, the LEDs need to be inserted also from the back. This would be a major difference to the original Yinding housing which is made of a single piece aluminium where the LEDs fit in from the front with very good heat sinking.


My initial impression was, they're computer-simulated (or heavily edited) pics, not real photos - but if they're indeed actual ones, it's clearly awful casing.


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## luigi4711 (Oct 21, 2013)

yep... also my first impression that where are CAD drawings, however, then you can see little imperfections.... once more it seems a gamble on what is inside a nicely decorated box...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Kir said:


> 2xCree XM-L2 2500-Lumen With 2 group modes LED Bicycle Light Lamp(Lamp cap only) - 2LED Bike Light - Led Bike Light - Bicycle Light & Headlamp Worldwide Free Shipping!!!
> First clone of Yinding. Different lenses (beam should be wider), different button and looks like it has 10-steps brightness adjustment.


I think I'm going to have to stop reading these threads. Every time someone sells a Chinese lamp with an upgraded feature I want to lay money down. :bluefrown:

I'm going to assume this lamp is offering what is usually referred to as "step-less dimming" ( 10 levels of adjustment per mode ). While I have yet to order anything special for myself for Christmas this lamp has my trigger finger itching. Great find Kir. Nice to know that other people are now perusing the Chinese web sites for new interesting set-ups. For anyone looking to buy new bike lights this is a good time to be shopping. Absolutely amazing what you can buy for $100 nowadays.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> *A yinding clone, you know that's going to be no good. At least it looks different, so you can tell them apart.* The original has proven itself to be nice light. I would just stick with that. It's almost like there's a two or three month window where you can get the original and it works great. *Then the cloners take over and then you have no idea what you are getting*.


Hey, they're cloners....and damn good ones too...


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

The clone clone light head is more expensive than the "original" clone kit on wallbuys with the 11% coupon. I think they'd need to come down in price to sucker more folks in.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Pulled mine apart today to 
Put a retainer on the cable
Grease the orings
I'm just nosey

Was generally happy with it. The LED board needed a bit more paste under it but otherwise no problems until I went to put it back together. :madman:
One of the long screws had stripped out its hole. Looks like only a few threads hold it even though it goes deeper so I will likely chop out edge of the LED board, which means thermal adhesive.


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

varider said:


> A yinding clone, you know that's going to be no good.


Isn´t it possible that it's a development/refinement of the YD? At least the use of XM-L2 suggests that.

Of course I have no idea. I'm just surprised that everyone is bashing it 

I'm tempted although I just received delivery of my second YinDing (will test riding with one on bars and the second on helmet).

Cheers
/Johan


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

Has anyone tried tighter optics for use as a helmet light?


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## eggdog (Nov 17, 2010)

Just saw that Aliexpress is having a Dec 2nd only sale on their Gemini Duo clone. 30% off that day only.

This is for the newer XML2 LED head only. From what I can tell this is one of the better quality vendors out there offering this lamp..

Free shipping 1Set CREE XML2 T6 3B Bike Light 1600lm Waterproof Bicycle Light LED HeadLamp+ Charger (without battery)-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

Looks like it should work out to $44 for the lamp only.


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

Trd620 said:


> Has anyone tried tighter optics for use as a helmet light?


I'm also very interested to hear if anyone has tried.

I'm basically very happy with my dual yinding setup but if anything the one on the helmet could have a little more spot. (maybe just changing one lens). Is there any info on what stock lens is?

cheers
/Johan


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

"Double" clone dropped his price to $34 USD



Kir said:


> 2xCree XM-L2 2500-Lumen With 2 group modes LED Bicycle Light Lamp(Lamp cap only) - 2LED Bike Light - Led Bike Light - Bicycle Light & Headlamp Worldwide Free Shipping!!!
> First clone of Yinding. Different lenses (beam should be wider), different button and looks like it has 10-steps brightness adjustment.


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

bit the bullet and ordered one of the clone clone lights. might have a tinker with it when it arrives.


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

Of those people who have actually recieved a Yinding light where have you got yours from? I originally ordered one nearly seven weeks ago from Fasttech and it got caught up in the HK Post/Fassttech debacle and I don't anticipate it being delivered as it has not even tracked . In a week and a bit time I will be able request a refund and will try another website. Was thinking either Wallbuys or DX? Where do people recommend?


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

SlSto said:


> Of those people who have actually recieved a Yinding light where have you got yours from?


I ordered mine from Fastech on Nov. 8th, it was supposed to ship on the 11th yet didn't because there was no stock. I wrote them and they said it would ship on the 18th when they got more stock, which it did. Today I received my light in the USA. When placing the order, I read the warning about Hong Kong post problems, so I opted for USPS instead, since it was free as well.


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

SlSto said:


> Of those people who have actually recieved a Yinding light where have you got yours from?


I got my first from Fasttech. Ordered on Oct 4th (before the whole battery situation).

Second one ordered without battery from here: Latest Unique Design Cree XML 2*U2 Bike Light headlight/lamp Front Light 2300 LM 4 mode-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com
Received in about three weeks and I now use it with the battery from my deceased MJ-872.

/Johan


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## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

GJHS said:


> I ordered mine from Fastech on Nov. 8th, it was supposed to ship on the 11th yet didn't because there was no stock. I wrote them and they said it would ship on the 18th when they got more stock, which it did. Today I received my light in the USA. When placing the order, I read the warning about Hong Kong post problems, so I opted for USPS instead, since it was free as well.


Same situation here. I ordered on Oct 28 (chose USPS shipping), it came in stock on Nov 18, shipped on Nov 20, at my house Dec 3.


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## mark__gti (Nov 17, 2013)

Mine arrived from FastTech on the weekend, It appears they are now using cheap connectors to join the battery pack to the light that don't appear very waterproof. 
How waterproof do they need to be?


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

Hard to tell for sure... I was planning to replace the connectors with anyways because I like silicone  more than PVC.
Where did you get such a nice bracket?


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## mark__gti (Nov 17, 2013)

MegaVolt said:


> Hard to tell for sure... I was planning to replace the connectors with anyways because I like silicone  more than PVC.
> Where did you get such a nice bracket?


Do you have a link to the connectors your on about? 
The bracket is a universal Hope one.


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## artemha (Nov 20, 2010)

Today I received lens and remote button. This is assembled yinding mod.
The lens gives a more hostpot, and perfect fit :thumbsup: Some beamshots here https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/good-xml-optic-804436.html#post9587038

  
  

1. Led-dna 10 deg. optics 10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA

2. Remote Mini Din Finger Ring PTT Plug Button Remote Mini DIN Finger Ring PTT Plug Button for Two Way Radio Pro Throat Mic | eBay


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

artemha said:


> Today I received lens and remote button. This is assembled yinding mod.
> The lens gives a more hostpot, and perfect fit :thumbsup: Some beamshots here http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/good-xml-optic-804436.html#post9587038
> 
> 1. Led-dna 10 deg. optics 10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA
> ...


Great mod! It would be helpful if you showed us how you soldered/attached the remote into the circuit board. Can you place this switch in series or parallel with the original button or did you cut the wires on the built-in button.


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

artemha said:


> The lens gives a more hostpot, and perfect fit :thumbsup:
> 
> 1. Led-dna 10 deg. optics 10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA


Thanks for sharing. I ordered a couple of different lenses to play around with my two yindings. Hoping a slightly more spotty beam on the helmet and maybe more floody on the bars will prove a useful mod.

Cheers
/Johan


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

+1 that is a really nice mod


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## artemha (Nov 20, 2010)

varider said:


> Great mod! It would be helpful if you showed us how you soldered/attached the remote into the circuit board. Can you place this switch in series or parallel with the original button or did you cut the wires on the built-in button.


I solder in parallel. Сut the red sector carefully for passing wires.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

artemha said:


> I solder in parallel. Сut the red sector carefully for passing wires.


Thanks for the help!
So this is picture of the unmodified light? Is that correct?
When you say cut the red sector, do you mean that used a tool to cut a notch into the green board in order to pass the wires through? So you just solder it into bottom of the original button as shown in the second picture.

It's a great mod for a bar light.


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## artemha (Nov 20, 2010)

varider said:


> So this is picture of the unmodified light? Is that correct?


Yes. This photo Kir http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/user-review-yinding-yd-2xu2-gemini-duo-clone-887497.html



varider said:


> When you say cut the red sector, do you mean that used a tool to cut a notch into the green board in order to pass the wires through?


Yes. I use high speed drill and grinding disc.



varider said:


> So you just solder it into bottom of the original button as shown in the second picture.


Yes.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

artemha said:


> Today I received lens and remote button. This is assembled yinding mod.
> The lens gives a more hostpot, and perfect fit :thumbsup: Some beamshots here https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/good-xml-optic-804436.html#post9587038
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely fantastic mod! *That remote switch is a super find!* :thumbsup: Looks almost exactly like the ones on the Gloworms. Nice to hear that the replacement optics work too. Turns out to be the "Poor man's version" of the Gloworm X2. If I already didn't happen to have a handful of GW X2's I would be ordering up a couple of these real quick.

Now if you could only order these Yinding ( Duo clone ) lamp head only at a decent price. $50 for head only is too much. $30 would be more acceptable.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

The double clone is for a decent $34: 2xCree XM-L2 2500-Lumen With 2 group modes LED Bicycle Light Lamp(Lamp cap only) - 2LED Bike Light - Led Bike Light - Bicycle Light & Headlamp Worldwide Free Shipping!!!


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

MK96 said:


> The double clone is for a decent $34: 2xCree XM-L2 2500-Lumen With 2 group modes LED Bicycle Light Lamp(Lamp cap only) - 2LED Bike Light - Led Bike Light - Bicycle Light & Headlamp Worldwide Free Shipping!!!


gotta love this review:

"Bright, cheap and works well. 2500 lumens (3000in reality). "

Fact: cree xml l2 led MAX lumens is ~975 (1198 in a lab) and only if it is cooled well.

-->2396 total theoretical maximum from 2xcree latest XML L2<---

no possible way that 2xml light can make more than 1800 or so lumens,
if at all, since the cooling is gonna be tough


----------



## tmoney (Mar 1, 2004)

I just received my duo clone from wallbuys. I ordered it november 9, it shipped november 19th and just arrived today. I did ship with EMS shipping. One thing to note, is that the connectors to the charger/battery/light are different then the Gemini. The center pin is larger on the Clone. I tried using my Gemini charger on the clone battery and the connector wouldn't fit. Just thought I would share.

-tmoney


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Very funny review indeed. The tech stuff should be clear to almost everyone that know XM-L1/2 



127.0.0.1 said:


> gotta love this review:
> 
> "Bright, cheap and works well. 2500 lumens (3000in reality). "
> 
> ...


----------



## squak (Feb 13, 2006)

I also have the Fasttech Yinding and was disappointed to find that the connectors were different than the Gemini lights/batteries that I already have. The pin on the battery end of the Yinding connector is a larger diameter than the typical Gemini/Magicshine. The Yinding will plug into my Gemini batteries, but not the other way around. I'd like to replace the battery connector with an extra Gemini connector that I have. What's the best way to do this? I'm no electrical expert, but I'm assuming that cutting/splicing on a live battery wire is bad.

Other than that, I've been really happy with the light so far.

Thanks.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

squak said:


> I also have the Fasttech Yinding and was disappointed to find that the connectors were different than the Gemini lights/batteries that I already have. The pin on the battery end of the Yinding connector is a larger diameter than the typical Gemini/Magicshine. The Yinding will plug into my Gemini batteries, but not the other way around. I'd like to replace the battery connector with an extra Gemini connector that I have. What's the best way to do this? I'm no electrical expert, but I'm assuming that cutting/splicing on a live battery wire is bad.
> 
> Other than that, I've been really happy with the light so far.
> 
> Thanks.


best way is cut/splice/solder/shrinkwrap your own connectors.

it is fine on a live battery just don't short it out by mistake.
protection circuit should kick off, but the question is: will it ? 
and can it be reset by it's own charger, or will ya brick it ?


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## squak (Feb 13, 2006)

I thought about it a little more and realized that I didn't need to mess with the Yinding battery. I cut the connector from the charger that came with the Yinding and spliced it to a Gemini connector to make a converter/extension. Problem solved.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

mark__gti said:


> Mine arrived from FastTech on the weekend, It appears they are now using cheap connectors to join the battery pack to the light that don't appear very waterproof.
> How waterproof do they need to be?


 I just got mine as well and noticed the connector is basic, no seal to keep out water. Is this normal or did they change it. 
I will say that even after reading, seeing on the forum how small it was, I was amazed. It's a nice light


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## squak (Feb 13, 2006)

If you look at photos from earlier in this thread the lights have the better connectors. The connectors on my light (received about 3 weeks ago) are the POS ones. I wouldn't trust them to stay connected on a mountain bike ride (or anywhere really). If you're using the Yinding with a Gemini or Magicshine battery you can put a few wraps of electrical tape around the plastic part of the plug to get a secure fit.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I would say that mine are snug. I dropped the light by accident and it didn't disconnect at all. I would say waterproof may be an issue for some people; I myself don't ride in the rain. I'm not sure that water would affect it though


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Can anyone with both the clone and the duo do a beamshot comparison or give your opinion on how the two stack up? Im curious to see if the beam patterns are similar. Is one more of a thrower than the other? All in all it looks like a pretty solid effort and definitely worthwhile option. The lightmall sight that has the clone listed for 35 also had some other nice deals including a magicshine single emitter knockoff for 12.50 and some cheap battery packs...I think 8x18650s and 4x26650s fpr just over 20 bucks.im sure the cells arent the best but they should still give decent runtimes for those who are on a budget and dont mind the extra weight penalty


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

There is a thread about batteries: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/battery-thread-2013-a-834295.html Most knock-off cells have capacity of a random number 700-2000 mAh. Maybe an average about 1200mAh/18650 cell. I am not sure about 26650, but take a look in that thread. Better would be to go with a pannovo battery holder and some reasonable capacity cells that depend on how much runtime do you really need. But decent 2600mAh Sanyo are $8-10 a pair I think (Fasttech, Wallbuys, Banggood,...)


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## Modig (Nov 6, 2005)

artemha said:


> Today I received lens and remote button. This is assembled yinding mod.
> The lens gives a more hostpot, and perfect fit :thumbsup: Some beamshots here http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/good-xml-optic-804436.html#post9587038
> 
> 1. Led-dna 10 deg. optics 10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA


Just a small post to confirm that the optics from LEDDNA are a perfect fit. I swapped one of the lenses in each of my two Yindings. One for more spot and one for more flood. Will get out to evaluate and see if I'll change the other one as well.







Cheers
/Johan


----------



## eggdog (Nov 17, 2010)

Ok I finally got my Duo Clone from Aliexpress. ( XML2 T6 ) I also have the 2013 Gemini Duo,( last years) which has been my go to bar light..Tonight I put them both on the bars to see how they compare.

Beam shots are the same, but I like the original Duo better just for the fact that I like the "whiter" color of the Duo. The clone is more of a yellow natural color, but the Duo has in my opinion a brighter "whiter" color tint.

I will run a runtime comparison tonight to see if there is much of a longer runtime with the XM L2 led.

Overall I like the original Duo better.

Free shipping 1Set CREE XML2 T6 3B Bike Light 1600lm Waterproof Bicycle Light LED HeadLamp+ Charger (without battery)-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I posted to the aforementioned thread and while I am unlikely to purchase any "cheap" packs (I currently run gemini 4's and 6's except for my tail light) I figured I wpuld point them put for the budget c9ncious buyer who happens to already be ordering from that site...although I must admit, the 26650 setup caught my attention. At the end of the day, if the junk china cells hold half the charge of a decent set, 22 dollars for an 8 cell doesn't stack up all that bad to 50+ for a decent 4 cell with equal capacity. As mentioned before weight will be the killer though


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Learning from experience these packs are a hit or miss in the mAh range I wrote with a greater chance to miss. The 8 cell 4S2P pack of 700mAh cells would be 2800mAh at 8.4V, for $22 you are close to $12 pannovo and $10 for a pair of 2600-2800 Sanyo or maybe Panasonic cells and the killer weight will be about 1/4 of the 8 cell pack. I bought a light that came with a pack of ~700mAh cells inside, I wrote to the seller, then I got a better pack, but still ~1100mAh cells inside.


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

Modig did you buy these optics as well?

15, 45, 60 degrees Lens for CREE XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA


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## eggdog (Nov 17, 2010)

Quick question. What size is the small front hex screw for the duo and its clones and where is a good source to to pick up the tools?


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

eggdog said:


> Quick question. What size is the small front hex screw for the duo and its clones and where is a good source to to pick up the tools?


1.5mm allen, I have a few Bondhus Allen sets. Better hardware stores should carry them, or an equivalent.


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## eggdog (Nov 17, 2010)

Modig said:


> Just a small post to confirm that the optics from LEDDNA are a perfect fit. I swapped one of the lenses in each of my two Yindings. One for more spot and one for more flood. Will get out to evaluate and see if I'll change the other one as well.
> View attachment 855848
> 
> Cheers
> /Johan


I just received the same 10 deg optics. Do yours fit "over" the led? Mine rest pretty tight on the led, and as hot as these things get I assume that might melt the optics. How are yours fitting. I tried it on a clones as well as the original duo with the same results.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

eggdog - take one of your existing screws to Ace Hardware as they have a pretty good selection of hardware (Green Mountain Ace since I believe you are a Front Ranger). Find the metric nuts and try to find one that will thread onto your screw, that will tell you the size and thread pitch. If it is the screw end that is stripped, then put the screw shafts side by side and find one that the threads mate up (interlace) with each other. This will get you the correct thread pitch. I am suspecting it is something like a 4mm with a .7 thread pitch, but I am just guessing based on the photos I have seen.

****


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

If any of you guys happen to get part numbers/relevant info on the bolts please put it here - I think many will agree it would feel good to have a spare set just in case.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

MegaVolt said:


> If any of you guys happen to get part numbers/relevant info on the bolts please put it here - I think many will agree it would feel good to have a spare set just in case.


The bolts aren't the problem, a spare set of holes is whats required. These are somewhat harder to find at the hardware store.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

znomit said:


> The bolts aren't the problem, a spare set of holes is whats required. These are somewhat harder to find at the hardware store.




****


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

znomit said:


> The bolts aren't the problem, a spare set of holes is whats required. These are somewhat harder to find at the hardware store.


When I had a bolt break off in a Cateye I was messing with - I drilled out the bolt and put in a helicoil. Solved the problem, but you do have to buy the kit:









Tap, Installation Tool, and 12 Inserts Per Kit for $30

And a drill bit (not in kit) of the size spec'ed in the kit.

You do have to find out the size/pitch to get the right kit, but here's 4mmx0.70 NC


----------



## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

You need to verify the actual thread size and pitch. I was just guessing based on pictures.


****


----------



## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

Anyone tried any carclo optics in these? The carclo optics appear to be 20mm x 10 mm which seems to be close to spot on with the size of the optics as measured on page 3 of this thread.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

scar said:


> You need to verify the actual thread size and pitch. I was just guessing based on pictures.
> 
> ****


Ha! Since I finally received my lights from DX, I checked a screw with my calipers: 2mm. Looking up pitch, it's either coarse (0.40) or fine (0.25). Kinda looked like 0.40 (width of one thread), but that was just a quick look. Helicoil lists a kit for M2x0.40


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Ok, so I got 2 YINDING YD-2XU2 DuoClones - 
and 10/45/60° lenses from LED-DNA via ebay:
Diameter : 21mm
Height : 12.5mm
Lense Material : PMMA
Lense Holder Color : White
Holder Material : ABS

The white plastic "holder" snaps off, and is not used. OEM lense is expected to be DuoClone as well, nominal 15°.

No pics of lenses installed but somebody else did that. The 10° and OEM 15° look very similar, with the 15° having a bigger "hole" thru the middle. 45° and 60° are difficult to tell apart just looking at them.

Beam shots! I tried to approximate the setup from the 2013 MTBR bike lights shootout tunnel beam patterns
Cinder blocks at 20/40/60 yards, and a 55 gallon drum at 80 yards.
My camera setup was: (I note that this is the first time I've tried using the camera in anything but "point-N-shoot" mode, so could be better)
Camera: Canon SD870IS
Setting: Full manual
ISO: 200
Exposure Compensation: +1 2/3 (1.6 seconds?)
Aperture: F4.0 (I think - saw this displayed at one point)
White Balance: Daylight
Flash: off
Metering mode: evaluative

All shots at highest light power. I also did a 25 yard "side of shop" setup, but at that range there is little to no difference between lenses.

Aim point was approximately the 20 yard cinder block for all.

10° lense:








OEM 15° lense:








45° lense:








60° lense:








Looking at the pics, the OEM 15° and 45° lenses reach almost as far - but there is no "spot" to the 45°, it's all even light.

Both the 45° and 60° lenses really spread to the sides, which is not apparent with this framing. The 60° goes farther to the sides, as it should.

The 10° lense gives good reach, and mounting it on the helmet and combining with the 60° lense on the bars gives a good field of light from the front axle out to 80 yards. I took a series of pics with this combo - but I must have bumped the camera mount because the pics were off to the side, not showing much of value. I was worried about intensity/color difference between the spot and flood (based on some halogen experience where the flood needed to be 20W to balance a 15W spot), but this didn't appear to be a problem in the static setup. I'm planning a New Year's Eve nightride tonite using the 10/60 combo, so I'll report back after that.


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

I myself am away from home and I don't have my Yinding on me now. My threads seemed to be ok but the heads of the screws were worn out - maybe because the seller replaced stock leds with T6 ones.

I am not so sure I would be able to safely unscrew and then tighten these screws back in the future, and I did have plans - like, adding a remote button. Would be nice to get a spare set with a torx head instead of a hex one.

So if anyone manages to get the sizes of these screws (thread, pitch, length, head diameter) I'd greatly appreciate that.


----------



## Belse (Apr 16, 2013)

is it possible to buy the Yinding lighthead only somewhere? I already have a bunch of batterys and chargers and would like to have another Yinding lighthead only...


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

wadester said:


> 10° lense:
> View attachment 858895


I've also received those lens and can also confirm that those 10° has a spottier beam than the stock 15°, I like the beam pattern much more. Recommend.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

I got out for a ride on New Year's Eve - using the 10/60 hat/bar combo. Started out at twilight, low worked fine. As dark came on, I turned them both up to mid level - which worked well enough that I didn't try high at all.

I've promised to take pics of the 10d lense fit in the housing/on the LED - but I haven't been near my 1.5mm allen wrench with time available as yet.

I also plan to take a pic of the 10/60 combo in the style as before.


----------



## randan (May 18, 2005)

I currently got my Yinding from Wallbuys. Wow, so tiny and sooo bright!

I found out, that my light got a different cable, that apparently doesn't match a Magicshine extension cable.

Left is the light, right the battery pack.





As I want to change to a better battery in the near future I am looking for a Yinding that matches a Magicshine cable. To those that have a Yinding with Magicshine-style plugs, whery did you buy yours?

Thanks in advance.


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## mark__gti (Nov 17, 2013)

I think the currant batch of yinding lights have the same connector you've posted. I got mine from fasttech and its the same as yours


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## eggdog (Nov 17, 2010)

I have the Original Gemini Duo and a clone that was purchased for Ali Express, and both fit the Magicshine battery connections just fine. Although the clone from Ali Express came with stripped screws so be aware from this reseller.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

I had a chance to take the lights back apart to check clearance today. And found that in the process of swapping lenses backNforth the other night I managed to put a set of OEM's back in the hat light. Since they worked well on the trail, I look forward to hotter spot of the 10d's on the next ride.

Here's the lenses just sitting in the housing:
OEM's







10d's








Two things to note - 1) there is no gap between the lenses and the housing. They are not touching the LED's, and in fact will move around side to side if you push them (just a tad). I verified this with some depth measurements - but the pics didn't come out. About 0.5mm clearance with both lenses.
2) note the thickness of the flange on the OEM, and the thinner flange on the 10d. With the cover on and tight, you can shake the light and hear the 10d's rattle a bit. The 60d lenses have a thicker flange and do not rattle.

Clearance around the LED's:
OEM's







10d's








The smaller hole in the 10d's still leaves the LED and it's bubble lense clear. A bit of the corners of the LED package are obscured - but as above, they are not actually touching.


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## eggdog (Nov 17, 2010)

wadester said:


> I had a chance to take the lights back apart to check clearance today. And found that in the process of swapping lenses backNforth the other night I managed to put a set of OEM's back in the hat light. Since they worked well on the trail, I look forward to hotter spot of the 10d's on the next ride.
> 
> Here's the lenses just sitting in the housing:
> OEM's
> ...


Do you have the actual link to your 10 deg lens? The ones I purchased seem higher in height than yours. Mine Definitely rest on the actual LED and press quite hard if I try to close it.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

eggdog said:


> Do you have the actual link to your 10 deg lens? The ones I purchased seem higher in height than yours. Mine Definitely rest on the actual LED and press quite hard if I try to close it.


Here's the link:5PCS x 10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED 

They list the height as 12.5mm, but my calipers say 11.4mm. It's difficult to measure either the flange height or the "depth" from flange bottom to base, but depth is about 10.3mm.

The 60d I checked is 11.7mm height, depth about 10.1mm.

The depth from where the lense flange sits to the LED package top is about 10.8mm. Which implies .4mm lense/LED clearance - which I measured at .5mm earlier.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

wadester said:


> 2) note the thickness of the flange on the OEM, and the thinner flange on the 10d. With the cover on and tight, you can shake the light and hear the 10d's rattle a bit. The 60d lenses have a thicker flange and do not rattle.


Acctualy this is a good thing. While original setup is missing o-rings around the optics, now you can install o-rings (18-19mm ID, d=1mm). You seal the front panel + get perfect fit. I think this upgrade is a must!


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

bhocewar said:


> Acctualy this is a good thing. While original setup is missing o-rings around the optics, now you can install o-rings (18-19mm ID, d=1mm). You seal the front panel + get perfect fit. I think this upgrade is a must!


Actually, my DX sourced Yindings have an o-ring between the top of the lense and the housing cover. Flourescent green silicone.


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## mark__gti (Nov 17, 2013)

wadester said:


> Actually, my DX sourced Yindings have an o-ring between the top of the lense and the housing cover. Flourescent green silicone.


My fasttech one has the same that glow in the dark.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

wadester said:


> Actually, my DX sourced Yindings have an o-ring between the top of the lense and the housing cover. Flourescent green silicone.


Does your DX yinding have MS connector?, flat or dimpled lenses? what does your mount look like? Do you have silicone gasket or 2 o-rings?
Mine didnt have any seals around lenses, because there was no room, but then I installed LED-DNA optics 10+25 that has thiner flange and 1mm thick o-ring makes perfect fit and better beam pattern (for me)

The battery seems not so bad. 1h on full on green, 1,5h on full on red (no brightness fade), 0,5h on full on red (some brightness fade) then complete cut off - battery protection.
No red blinking warning.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

bhocewar said:


> Does your DX yinding have MS connector?


I'm not sure what connector MS (Magicshine?)has, but these are standard DC coax push fit connectors: 5.5 mm OD, 2.5 mm ID, 9.5mm long. Very common, and what I use on all my DIY stuff. Same as the old NiteRider incandescents.



bhocewar said:


> flat or dimpled lenses?


These are the original lenses - flat across the face:











bhocewar said:


> what does your mount look like?


Just like these:











bhocewar said:


> Do you have silicone gasket or 2 o-rings?


They have an o-ring around each lense, and the base seal shown here:









Don't know how this got here -


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

Has anyone opened up a duo clone from the second batch and compared the internal workings to pictures of the original batch? I wonder whether any shortcuts have been made here as well? i did try last night but didn't have the right size hex key (1.5?).


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## Carraig042 (Nov 12, 2009)

I just got mine in a little while ago. I made a simple mount for it to connect to a GoPro mount. Should be pretty solid and easy to use. I will give it a go this evening to see how it does. It is 10 degrees now outside, going to be cold!

Also, mine came in a different light's box. I was about to be really mad until I opened it up!









-Brett


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

Has anyone else preformed a runtime test with a hunk lee 2 cell 18650 Panasonic 3400mah battery pack?


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

The outcome will vary depending on what version of clone you get. You should be able to get 1.5-2 hours on high with that pack based on the results from Kir's review.


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## Relic38 (Sep 6, 2013)

as I know wallbuys also have the CREE XM-L2 T6-3B LED yinding bike lamp, and their price is 50$(with charger and battery pack)


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

What's the best place to get the original unmodified version of this light?


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## artemha (Nov 20, 2010)

varider said:


> What's the best place to get the original unmodified version of this light?


But 3b bin version.
Free shipping 1Set CREE XML2 T6 3B Bike Light 1600lm Waterproof Bicycle Light LED HeadLamp+ Charger (without battery)-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com


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## Relic38 (Sep 6, 2013)

I think DX is the best place


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

artemha said:


> But 3b bin version.
> Free shipping 1Set CREE XML2 T6 3B Bike Light 1600lm Waterproof Bicycle Light LED HeadLamp+ Charger (without battery)-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com


No battery though.


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## larres (Jul 11, 2013)

At wallbuys:
$48.48 Yinding 2 x CREE XM-L2 T6-3B 1600LM 4-Mode Dual Head White LED Bicycle Lamp + 8.4v Battery Pack + Charger-Black

With coupon code LEDWALLBUYS14 you get the lamp with batteries for $45.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Reading on the other thread (Kir's review) it says that the aliexpress light has stripped threads and the wallbuys light comes with different optics and a poor mount. 

Has anyone who bought this light in the last months received a good one?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

rumors are from what I read here that from D/X it is OK.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

No, I can confirm that even DX doesnt have original first batch anymore(ordered 2013-12-1). The same as ones from fasttech, lightmalls, wallbuys...
(different optics, connector, mount, missing o-rings, some have XMLs and some newer versions have XML2s)


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

So we have to accept the fact the first good batch is gone


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

crap

world best crappy clone the yinding couldn't keep up with it's own fame

I have three, dimpled TIR, U2, clear silicone O rings, with good screws, and snap
connectors, and I reckon that will never be achieved again based on reports


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Yeah that sucks. I was thinking of getting one of these. I want a slightly wider beam than solarstorm x2, which the original clone had. I think the new clone (2nd batch) has a narrow beam.


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

Aside from these minor differences I believe you still have a very good light. It still has the same body which is well designed and has good thermal pathways compared to solarstorm and fandyfire lights. I believe the beam is still good when compared to the single xm-l lights i have used. You also have a light that has great opportunities for modding if that is your desire. The issue with the screws only seems to apply to the aliexpress lights.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

SlSto said:


> The issue with the screws only seems to apply to the aliexpress lights.


Nah I got a stripped thread on my Fasttech one.
Still considering one for the helmet though.


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

znomit said:


> Nah I got a stripped thread on my Fasttech one.
> Still considering one for the helmet though.


Was that the screw on the front plate?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

SlSto said:


> Was that the screw on the front plate?


No, one of the long screws holding the LED board down and the back and middle together. It was probably cross threaded during a rushed assembly (so it held together until I opened it). Fixed by grinding the LED board down to half thickness so The screw went a bit deeper.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

I got very dodgy threads from wallbuys. But they hold for now


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

bhocewar said:


> I got very dodgy threads from wallbuys. But they hold for now


How was your recent DX one? I shalln't be trying to remove those bolts then just in case. I also have a 2nd batch fasttech one. I did order a first batch one before they went out of stock but it got lost in the fasttech/HK post dispute at the end of October and never showed. I do still check the tracking in the hope my first batch clone might find its way to me!


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

A friend got it from DX and I didnt actualy got it in my hands. Will change that soon.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

If you don't take it apart is there an issue with the threads to just to use it as is?


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## agu (Jun 22, 2007)

Just received my Wallbuys Yinding. Definitely isn't a first-gen, more like a second-gen one with the non-locking connectors, flat optics and no o-rings. Looks alright but a better battery/battery pack would be the first thing I'd change. Was hoping to pair this with an old NR Minewt but the NR stopped working just today. Odd that. May just purchase another from WallBuys to replace it.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Bummer...sometime it does pay to be an early adopter!


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## agu (Jun 22, 2007)

TiGeo said:


> ^^^Bummer...sometime it does pay to be an early adopter!


Haha, yes. Did a quick night ride from the shop to home - it was mounted on the bars. It sure is brighter than the dearly departed Nite Rider Minewt...

Fashioned a helmet mount from spare GoPro bits. Used a longish 3mm allen bolt from an old lock-on grip to secure it to the light. Worked great during a quick spin. Now I need another Yinding for the bar!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

127.0.0.1 said:


> FYI
> 
> I have recently picked up the yinding from wallbuys, got the blue one
> 
> ...


That battery case is pretty cool. I might go that route if I take up the Chinese Light thing again. Does it have some sort of charge regulation/balancing circuit? Or, do you just remove the cells and charge them in a stand-alone charger?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Unfortunately no regulation or balancing circuit. For balancing purposes you just remove the cells and charge them individualy in multichanell or hobby charger.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

ledoman said:


> Unfortunately no regulation or balancing circuit. For balancing purposes you just remove the cells and charge them individualy in multichanell or hobby charger.


Well, now that I think about it, that isn't a deal breaker. Not a big deal to pop the cells out and stick them in a charger. I assume you want to use protected cells for that. Come to think of it. Deal Extreme sent me an order for somebody else. In that order, I got two 18650 chargers and a few sweet flashlights. DX didn't want to bother with me shipping them back. . I'm most of the way to making that battery pack work already. :thumbsup:

Dang, that Gemini Duo clone is looking pretty swank. I saw the head only somewhere for $32. I'm super tempted.... and I'm already flush in lights in my bike shop. Are the current crop of Gemini Duo clones still of decent enough quality? I also love the mod-ability of them. I would probably go for wider angle optics. I'm thinking bar light(s).


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

artemha said:


> Today I received lens and remote button. This is assembled yinding mod.
> The lens gives a more hostpot, and perfect fit :thumbsup: Some beamshots here https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/good-xml-optic-804436.html#post9587038
> 
> 
> ...


That push button is pretty dang cool. It was the one major thing I missed about my LightBrain halogen light controller board. That thing was cool (for halogen). You click the button for brightness up, and hold it down for brightness down.

I'm thinking I might wanna mod my NiteRider Dual700 light with this button to get easy control access from the bars. The NR basically clicks through high-med-low and back to high. Hold it down to power off. Oddly, my Lumina650 is the opposite.


----------



## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

ledoman said:


> Unfortunately no regulation or balancing circuit. For balancing purposes you just remove the cells and charge them individualy in multichanell or hobby charger.


This is precisely what I want to do. I already run 18650's in flashlights and invested in an xtar wp6 charger....I'm buying a light head and making a pack
CDT


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## whichway (Feb 8, 2014)

Hi

I know this might just be another clone, but has anyone got any experience with Ultrafires, like this -

UltraFire LZZ-U3 2 x CREE XM-L2 U3 4-Mode 1800lm White Bike Light / Headlamp - Black (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

They have (or are supposed to have) xm-l2 U3 leds which apparently have better light output for the same current compared to other Cree LEDs.

Thanks


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

whichway said:


> Hi
> 
> I know this might just be another clone, but has anyone got any experience with Ultrafires, like this -
> 
> ...


I just stumbled across that exact model and was wondering the same thing.

Edit: I took the plunge and ordered one. See my post elsewhere.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^There was a review someone on either this thread or the other Duo clone thread about the clone of the Yindling (a clone of a clone!). Apparently not quite a well-built and some other minor issues with the mount.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

The battery on that one looks interesting...like a hard-shell case. The light looks to have a long cable and the battery is just a female end. I wonder if they are nice MS-type connectors or not?


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

whichway said:


> Hi
> 
> I know this might just be another clone, but has anyone got any experience with Ultrafires, like this -
> 
> ...


Well I decided to roll the dice and ordered one. Fingers crossed that it is what it says it is AND it's good build quality.

I also ordered one of these while I was ordering. Buy Cree XM-L2 U2 864lm 3-Mode White Bicycle Light Headlamp - Grey + Silver (4 x 18650)


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## flomaster (Feb 11, 2014)

hidperf said:


> Well I decided to roll the dice and ordered one. Fingers crossed that it is what it says it is AND it's good build quality.
> 
> I also ordered one of these while I was ordering. Buy Cree XM-L2 U2 864lm 3-Mode White Bicycle Light Headlamp - Grey + Silver (4 x 18650)


I have two I bough off amazon.com for $31 amazon prime, but mine are the 3 CREE LED ones and these are FREAKING BRIGHT.

NEW 3800lm 3x Cree Xm-l T6 Led Outdoor Headlight Headlamp Bicycle / Bike Light - Amazon.com

-=Jason=-


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## bianchifan (Feb 13, 2010)

*German customers - Info from Wallbuys*

Yinding Headlamp

Dear valued customers,

Thanks for your support on Wallbuys.

We got feedback from our customers that some packages of Yinding Headlamp couldn't pass the inspection on Germany. We suggest German customers do not purchase these items (SKU 13047, 11613, 10808, 10809) until we solve this issue with our supplier.

Please rest assures we will handle it soon.

2/11/2014


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

These boneheads need to stop trying to sell this light with batteries. Where's my lighthead-only option for $35?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

There is @Lightmalls but the cloned clone only not the original one


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

Hi all MBR

WOW Interesting thread but I still have a question as my MS 808 looking and bit tied, beam getting a tint of yellow but it over three years so for the money a great light.

To questions I been looking at YINDING YD-2XU2 2 x Cree XM-L U2 1200lm & a very similar light UltraFire LZZ-U3 2 x CREE XM-L2 *U3* 4-Mode 1800lm

Should I read to much into the stats & lumens?
UltraFire has more lumens & range but is it a better in build?



> YINDING
> LED Type XM-L
> Battery Configuration 4 x 18650
> Brightness 1200 lm
> ...





> UltraFire
> LED Type XM-L*2*
> Power Supply *1* x 18650 Battery Pack
> Theoretical Lumens 2000lumens
> ...


Lights seen on dx.com

Many Thanks
Smoke&Lasers


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Those are Chinese stats and are meaningless! Go by users reviews and experiences or take a chance. These lights are often produced in the same factories and sold under different names. That Yinding has been hit or miss and mostly miss lately. I would lean toward the "Convoy" Yinding sold by Simon on AliExpress (though others don't recommend him). It's a bit pricey at $45 light head only though. There are pics in a recent thread here. 

-Garry


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

Hi Garrybunk



> Those are Chinese stats and are meaningless!


O right I thought the lumens figures may have been massage.

I'm in the UK I not heard of AliExpress before.

Thanks for reply


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

Seems to be the same as ALI Express looks like wallbuys have updates their stock?

$48.48 Yinding 2 x CREE XM-L2 T6-3B 1600LM 4-Mode Dual Head White LED Bicycle Lamp + 8.4v Battery Pack + Charger-Black

Free shipping 1Set CREE XML2 T6 3B Bike Light 1600lm Waterproof Bicycle Light LED HeadLamp+ Charger (without battery)-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Finally bought a pair of the clones off Wallbuys in 3B tint with battery etc ~$51(w/charger & battery), they have the Magicshine connectors and dimpled lens, already had a ton of GoPro mounts so got some of the GoPro adapters from Vancbiker over in the DIY thread, pretty awesome stuff at a good price. Here's one mounted up with 2 cell Magicshine battery.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

socal_jack said:


> Finally bought a pair of the clones off Wallbuys in 3B tint with battery etc ~$51(w/charger & battery), they have the Magicshine connectors and dimpled lens, already had a ton of GoPro mounts so got some of the GoPro adapters from Vancbiker over in the DYI thread, pretty awesome stuff at a good price. Here's one mounted up with 2 cell Magicshine battery.


Very nice helmet set-up. Well done. :thumbsup:

If you could provide a better close-up of the Go-Pro mount / lamp that would be nice.

At some point someone needs to start a thread on "helmet mount solutions" so other people can better set-up their own helmet mount system.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> At some point someone needs to start a thread on "helmet mount solutions" so other people can better set-up their own helmet mount system.


I agree. I'm trying to figure out how to mount my lights and possibly my camera. I've gotten nowhere so far.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

I got these 12" Velcro straps at REI, $2 for 2 roughly and replaced the straps that came with the GoPro helmet mount. Adapter as mentioned is from user Vancbiker in the DIY light forum. Here's some more pics hope they help. There's another short strap to keep the cable fixed to the rear "spoiler" also. Another 12" Velcro strap holds the battery in place.



































Cat-man-do said:


> Very nice helmet set-up. Well done. :thumbsup:
> 
> If you could provide a better close-up of the Go-Pro mount / lamp that would be nice.
> 
> At some point someone needs to start a thread on "helmet mount solutions" so other people can better set-up their own helmet mount system.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Hey socal, can you post up a few close-up pics? One of the light from the front and of the connectors?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Finally, spent $45 and ordered this! There was a 10% coupon on retailmenot so $45 delivered for a light/battery sounded good to me. I think this will work with my existing geomangear batteries and now I have an extra light. Can't wait to get it and try it out.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

TiGeo said:


> Hey socal, can you post up a few close-up pics? One of the light from the front and of the connectors?


Something like this?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Great, thanks! What is the "dippled" lens? I can't wait to get mine.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Meant "dimpled" but that's not even correct, some were even calling it a "nipple". There appears to be several different lenses as well as connectors that were showing up on these lightheads. Some of them had a flat face and others a "bump" approximately as below crudely converting finger feel to Paint drawing, my lenses are the type on the right in the drawing below.











TiGeo said:


> Great, thanks! What is the "dippled" lens? I can't wait to get mine.


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## MtbDemiGod (Mar 11, 2014)

Well, after reading all 19 pages of this thread I came to one conclusion... That I "MUST" buy this microscopic "Yinding"... But..... one thing stuck in mind that I could not let go of.... I saw this picture a user posted in this thread about the Yinding vs 3x XML. I just couldn't forget that comparison

CLICK HERE FOR FULL SIZED 1450x2900 RESOLUTION









Yes, that to me seems like the 3x XML slaughtered the Yinding. Actually, that doesn't even look like a comparison, it looks like child's play!

Anyways, after weeks of debate, I stumbled on this seller on AliExpress selling a "7x XML-T6 Bike light with 6x18650 battery pack with Free shipping by DHL for $30.21". Seems the seller is having a 3 day sale, but is by far the best deal I have seen for any 7x bike light, and shipped by DHL. I have no worries about him being a new seller as AliExpress has Buyer Protection, just in case!










This light is so cheap at $30 that I plan to buy this 
"8x18650 Panasonic NCR18650B 7.4V 13600mAh Protected Li-ion battery for Bike Light 2S4PXM" from Hunk_Lee for $86.00 as well. Gotta get the best for this 7x XML monster!









I really wanted to get the Yinding, but I am a "Light Guy" that loves to light up the night, so I had to get this 7x light. I'm guessing it has to at least be about 3000-5000 real lumens, which I'm guessing will be all flood! Now that's a bike light


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

3XML is a good mix of flood and throw, so for a MTBing it has a better pattern than yinding. 7-up's are about 16W and there exists one 36W version sold as Trustfire 9000lm bikelight on ebay. IF you buy 36W 7XML or you do a resistor mod on the cheaper one you need to be sure the pack PCB and connector can handle currents to about 6-7A. The 36W 7up has maybe some 3000lm but not 5000lm in any way. These 7-up's are huge flooders having very wide beam pattern. 36W version review is here: Powerful 7*Cree XM-L T6 6000LM 3-Mode Front Bicycle Light from LM


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

The 3x looks about the same brightness, just a bit more up towards the bike.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

In those pics, I would expect the Yingding to have better color rendition than the 3 x XM-L but in those pics the 3 XM-L looks very similar in tint (perhaps that Yinding is not a neutral white one). 

I really like the output I'm seeing from the 3 XM-L, but really dislike the 1 LED, 2 LED, 3LED modes. It's very difficult to make out any discernible difference from medium to high also. I do really want to see beamshots from Cat's KD Tri-clone with programmable modes (hint, hint!).

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MtbDemiGod said:


> ...I really wanted to get the Yinding, but I am a "Light Guy" that loves to light up the night, so I had to get this 7x light. I'm guessing it has to at least be about 3000-5000 real lumens, which I'm guessing will be all flood! Now that's a bike light


Just to let you know; these types of lamps have been out there for some time. If they were providing 3000-5000 lumen they would be selling like hot cakes. Note, they are not selling like hot cakes. If they were the reviews would be all over the place.

The lamp you linked to is big and heavy. Without a good mount it will be sliding around all over your bars. The UI only has two steady modes, low and high. Since you don't know the output of the driver you have no idea how bright the lamp will really be or how usable the low mode will be. My gut tells me that if you get almost 2000 lumen ( on high ) you will be very lucky. If you get an actual 1300 lumen on high you will be getting your monies worth. Word; nobody sells a 5000 lumen lamp for $30. If they did they would sell out in a matter of days. It's not the number of LED's that supply the output, it's the number of LED's and the power ( current ) limit of the driver controlling the current to the LED's.



garrybunk said:


> I do really want to see beamshots from Cat's KD Tri-clone with programmable modes (hint, hint!).
> 
> -Garry


Garry, I'd love to put a beam photo out but trails are really muddy where I live right now and we just had 8" of snow over the weekend. To really get a sense of what the KD tri-stepless has to bring I might have to use a ball field. If it drys out a bit by this weekend I'll see what I can do ( no promises though as I am really jonesing for a ride ).


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

No problem Cat; I really am trying to be patient! 

Another thing about the "monster output lights" - runtime. If you were putting out 3,000 to 5,000 lumens that means your pushing some serious current which in turn means your draining your battery pack awful fast! 

-Garry


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

I'd say, it's a matter of correct selection of light setup according to particular needs. You decide, how much power you need and what battery to use, depending on actual riding requirements...


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

As far as a "monster light" goes, this one looks for real - Vision X Lighting unveils 6.7-in. Light Cannon LED spotlight that outputs 2520 ft light beam - LEDs

May have to get creative for power source, input is 11-65V's 

*****


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

socal_jack slimline battery looks *smart *what the running time?

Sadly I'm still waiting for my YINDING as it gone missing from DX to UK
DX just said light has been delivered and I should wait another week,
One or other not both!

Hope DX will come good and send another one.

From like that Vision X light looks a monster.


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## MtbDemiGod (Mar 11, 2014)

Smoke&Lasers said:


> socal_jack slimline battery looks what the running time?
> 
> Sadly I'm still waiting for my YINDING as it gone missing from DX to UK
> DX just said light has been delivered and I should wait another week,
> ...


Lol, your getting the classic DX VIP Treatment, lot's of crazy thing DX has been doing lately, especially lying to customer's repeatedly about shipping, out of stock, delivery, etc... I hate to say it, but should have order the Yinding from Lightmall!


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

Not to hijack thread but....

MtbDemiGod I have ordered before from DX 2010\12 and I had a nose round here alot of riders were buying from DX.

Next order from Lightmall, if my light don't turn up I know who to blame


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

I still need to give it a go, I've only ridden it around the hood so far.



Smoke&Lasers said:


> socal_jack slimline battery looks what the running time?
> 
> Sadly I'm still waiting for my YINDING as it gone missing from DX to UK
> DX just said light has been delivered and I should wait another week,
> ...


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Just spotted a Gemini Duo clone on Amazon (sellers appears to be in China) with the 10 step "stepless adjusted" driver and XM-L2's. Little pricey at $63.17.

-Garry


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

That manikin freaks me out.


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## luigi4711 (Oct 21, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> At some point someone needs to start a thread on "helmet mount solutions" so other people can better set-up their own helmet mount system.


FWIW, I know most of the text will not be useful for you, since it is in German, but there are also some picture in for putting the Yinding on a helmet

Yinding YD-2XU2 auf dem Helm | MTB-News.de


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Bought a few of the 60 degree and 10 degree lenses from LED DNA recommended earlier in the thread. Both a have a much narrower opening for the LED than the stock one. The 10 degree sat up too high but the 60 degree fit good will use one of those on the bar light. The front screw threads were good on both and both lights had both sets of seals, ad XMLs appear to be L2, lucked out there I guess. Ordered some new lenses from Fasttech, a different 15 deg and a 30 deg, both look better for an XML, I'll disassemble further when they come in. First couple of short rides with stock lenses were a blast.

Edit: Looks like the board isn't all the way in on the other light., disassembled and the power wires were bunched under the LED board, barely making contact with the body on one side. Pulled wires thru and added some good TIM. Like everyone says disassemble before use. Stripped other one down, OK except rear circuit board roughly trimmed had to file it a bit at corners t get in and out smoothly. Also added some good TIM to that one before buttoning up.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Just noticed Lightmalls has the "stepless" driver Duo clone (doesn't say Yinding): Head only at $34.20. Not a bad price.

Sounds like you have to press & hold 8 seconds everytime you want to access the "stepless" modes (which doesn't sound good).

-Garry


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

This thread is depressing, just read through all 20 pages only to find out the good versions are around any more.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Actually, I have a spare original first batch Yinding that I can sell. If you are from Europe, you can get it.


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi Bhocewar, 

Thanks for the kind offer, but I'm actually in that funny country down under called Australia so postage would be a killer.
I don't really NEED one, it just looked like a good one (ultra small, ultra bright) to add to the 'gadget' collection.

Cheers,
Glen


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Just noticed Lightmalls has the "stepless" driver Duo clone (doesn't say Yinding): Head only at $34.20. Not a bad price.
> 
> Sounds like you have to press & hold 8 seconds everytime you want to access the "stepless" modes (which doesn't sound good).
> 
> -Garry


Garry, first..thanks for the link. The "stepless" mode is designed to be a sub-menu. You program each of the steady modes the way you want and then you're done. At that point you simply change modes like any other lamp by pressing the mode button ( once ) to advance to the next mode. The changes are stored and saved but you can change them any time you want by accessing the stepless sub-menu by doing the press and hold thing ( for each mode ).

Really not sure the stepless menu is that big a thing for the Duo clones but for lamps with more output it is a really nice feature to have. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ah, thanks Cat. Makes more sense now that I think about it. The Chinese do a terrible job at describing things like this in their product specs. They could probably sell more if they described it better!

-Garry


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

I'm still waiting coming to seven weeks from DX to UK

Wish I could afford the real deal.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Mine was ordered from Wallbuys on 3/18 and it is showing that it left the USPS facility in CA on yesterday..hopefully it will be here by week's end which would put the total wait at ~3.5 weeks...not bad! Lets see how it pans out. Looking forward to trying out my first el-cheap-o Chinese light!


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

^ Is it here yet


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Nope.

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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Ok..I was out of town and it did come..need to swing by USPS today and get it. So it showed up on 4/10 and I ordered it on 3/18..I think that is pretty good from China!


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Got it today. Holy crap It's so freaking SMALL! Will test out tonight.

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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

One other comment..it does have the proper MS type connectors.

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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

Come on  photos & update.
Think I got to reorder my one.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Are lenses flat or dimpled?, what kind of handlebar mount did you get? What sound makes the button? Hard click or barely noticable? Are the leds XML or XML2 (green or silver edge)?
What is the color of light? It should be very neutral.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Smoke&Lasers said:


> Come on  photos & update.
> Think I got to reorder my one.


Settle down Beavis....I have had it for a few hours 

I have charged up the battery but think I will just use it with my tried/true GeoMan battery; I hooked it up and it worked fine. The connectors are proper MS-type that "pop" when you connect them which I assume means they should be somewhat water-proof. The light is VERY BRIGHT. You can feel the heat coming off of it so as with any of these LEDs..you probably need to be moving to use the high setting. When you first turn it on, it goes on low, then medium, then high, then off. Interesting thing is when you click the button, it actually goes to the next brightest setting slowly, not just instantly..cool :thumbsup:

I seriously can't believe how small it is...I am going to grab a quick night ride tonight and try it out and will post up pictures etc.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

bhocewar said:


> Are lenses flat or dimpled?, what kind of handlebar mount did you get? What sound makes the button? Hard click or barely noticable? Are the leds XML or XML2 (green or silver edge)?
> What is the color of light? It should be very neutral.


Dimpled lenses. Standard MS-type rubber band mount. The button makes a barely noticeable click. Not sure on the LEDs, but the one I ordered should have been the XM-L2 3B. Haven't ridden yet so tonight I will and will post up a better review with pics.

Edit. Maybe the click is more clicky than I first thought. Double edit. It's as clicky as my MS 808s.

Here is the one I ordered:
$48.48 Yinding 2 x CREE XM-L2 T6-3B 1600LM 4-Mode Dual Head White LED Bicycle Lamp + 8.4v Battery Pack + Charger-Black

Its actually $50 and you can find a coupon code for 10% off..retailmenot.


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

Beavis 
Would two be over kill?
Think I'll buy from your website.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Ok, just took a quick nightride spin to test this bad-boy out. Its great. V. bright and much better than the 808 P7 I have with the wide-angle lens. I will probably need to upgrade my helmet light now (808 P7) with the newest version of the 808. The color is different; the 808 is v. white compared to the Yinding..its almost..dare I say..light peach? If you have problems night riding with the Yinding you have other issues to sort out with your riding 

I took a photo of the Yinding on the street and then my 808 P7 helmet light. The trail shot is the Yinding.


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## Rim21 (Apr 12, 2014)

Thanks to all for the posts. It has been very informative. Is it possible for someone to take the pcb board measurements? Or the inside of the casing measurement for the length please (the height has already been measured on pg4 I think)?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Run time test set up. Results in a few hours.









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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Run test complete. Did this on high with OEM battery. Went 1.5 hours on green before going to red. At 2 hours went to red flashing and light was noticable dimmer. I call this a win. I think I will Plasti-Dip the battery.

Edit. This battery isn't worthy of the $$ for a can of Plasti-Dip; went the e-tape route..should be fine. The little nylon case will work perfectly; I just trimmed off the strap/buckle b/c I use an Awesome Strap to hold it to the frame.

Double edit. Took the tape off..who cares...I don't ride in the rain..I mean...I know that tape weights a few grams right? 

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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I opened it up; the board says XML U2 but the LEDs have a silver back...what does that mean? Seems like the fit of the board to the shell is *ok*...some gap in spots.

Edit. Appears that I do indeed have the XM-L2 emitters due to the silver backing (not green). I went back and looked through this thread (phew....its getting long!) - I believe the board with the LEDs is thermal pasted to the metal backing/case so should have good heat transfer...sure got hot during testing!

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## Rim21 (Apr 12, 2014)

So I took the plunge and bought one of these clones (maybe this is a clone of a clone) from ebay: 4 Modes Waterproof 2300LM Cree XM L U2 LED Bicycle Light Battery Pack Charger | eBay
I don't know what happened with the price as yesterday it was $37.77 but today it is $59.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Rim21 said:


> So I took the plunge and bought one of these clones (maybe this is a clone of a clone) from ebay: 4 Modes Waterproof 2300LM Cree XM L U2 LED Bicycle Light Battery Pack Charger | eBay
> I don't know what happened with the price as yesterday it was $37.77 but today it is $59.


This is the clone of the Yinding clone that is a clone of the Gemini Duo..so yes...clone of a clone!

Edit. Opps...I am wrong (per post below) - this is just the clone of the Gemini..not the clone of a clone. I should have looked at the pics closer.


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

I believe the ebay light listed above is a clone of a Gemini light and not a clone of a clone 
1. It says yinding on the back
2. The clone of a clone does not have 2 front facia screws instead it locks everything together with 2 screws located underneath the light.

Oh and if you read the description the quantity says 2 so maybe that's why the price went up???


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Comparo with 808 P7s.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Ok...I swear...last post 

The cord length...perfect-o. V. short off the light and the battery is short as well...I hate long cords for the bar light as I run my battery on my top tube near the front. I don't have to wrap it at all!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The Chinese often put XM-L2 LEDs onto "XM-L" printed boards; no worries if you ever see those. To go along with that, just because the board may say "U2" doesn't mean it is one. I believe that very often the emitters are lower bins than advertised (because 99% of people can't tell and won't tell the difference). They probably frequently use the "T6" bins as they are so common. 

-Garry


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> To go along with that, just because the board may say "U2" doesn't mean it is one. I believe that very often the emitters are lower bins than advertised (because 99% of people can't tell and won't tell the difference). They probably frequently use the "T6" bins as they are so common.
> 
> -Garry


I too believe this. I'd guess they are using T6 at best. More likely T5. A while back I compared pricing from a volume LED supplier and the T5 was over a dollar less than a U2. The temptation by the manufacturer to save over $2 per light would be irresistible at the low prices these sell for.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

Hey Gemini heads...
I like this light,and my friend bought one from Action LED....So I am going in this direction....

How would you describe the difference in a yinding versus the $115 Action LED 'Gemini lighthead'...
Obviously the Yinding is alot cheaper, but is it horrendous quality in comparison?
I fully intend to fab a battery pack out of the Keeppower cells I have, and also use the quality charger I have...

So for me, I need a light head, or two 
Question is , $115 gemini or a cheap Yinding gemini........
Thanks
CDT


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

To me, it's a $75 difference for a higher quality unit with a warranty, after/pre sale service, and spport a reputable dealer (action). If I were going to use it a lot, I would get the Gemini. If you want to fart around with budget lights and are willing to deal with a potential of trail failure to save some $, get the Yinding.

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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

My ghetto-fabulous Yinding set up with the cheap-o battery held on with an Awesome Strap.









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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

CdaleTony said:


> Hey Gemini heads...
> I like this light,and my friend bought one from Action LED....So I am going in this direction....
> 
> How would you describe the difference in a yinding versus the $115 Action LED 'Gemini lighthead'...
> ...


I have both, with both running off a magicshine 2 cell battery. I can't tell them apart when I use them. I assume the Gemini is better quality, but I won't know until the Yinding fails. The battery supplied with the Yinding works OK, but I prefer a 2 cell on my helmet.

Tim


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

CdaleTony said:


> Hey Gemini heads...
> I like this light,and my friend bought one from Action LED....So I am going in this direction....
> 
> How would you describe the difference in a yinding versus the $115 Action LED 'Gemini lighthead'...
> ...


First thing you need to do with the Yinding is tear it down and check everything, had the wires to the LED board bunched behind it in the TIM only partial heatsink contact, doubt that happens on the Gemini. Fit and finish definitely a bit on the inconsisten side for the Yinding. The biggest functional difference is the modes, Gemini has very nice programmable UI, the Yinding is fixed though the levels are pretty well thought out at least for me, YMMV.

As mentioned, if something goes wrong you're probably on your own with the Yinding. Gemini has a support system.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I jus don't see the big thing with modes, for my riding. I ride 1-2 hours (at most!) and run my lights on full the whole time...no need to dim them or save battery life.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

TiGeo said:


> I jus don't see the big thing with modes, for my riding. I ride 1-2 hours (at most!) and run my lights on full the whole time...no need to dim them or save battery life.


On high they tend to cook on the steeper climbs.

I've been using this mainly as a backup on the roadie and low mode (plus a little use of medium on downhills) lasts a full night.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

znomit said:


> On high they tend to cook on the steeper climbs.
> 
> I've been using this mainly as a backup on the roadie and low mode (plus a little use of medium on downhills) lasts a full night.


Just ride up the climbs faster


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

Here is my bar set up, its a yinding light from ALI express which was on sale for $45 (I bought 2) and has the standard lenses,

I have shortened the connection wire on the Light head and installed a hope QR mount, I also bought a Hunk_lee 3x 3400 mah 2 cell battery changed the cable to a magic shine style, I wrapped the battery in heat shrink and plasti-dipped it as well. 








This is my helmet light set up which I also bought from Ali express, I am yet to shorten the cable on the light head, I have changed the lenses to a 10 degree spot lenses which works great. I mount the light with the standard o-ring set-up and there is a little centre ridge on my helmet and the angle is spot on.














I normally ride around 2 - 3 hours and with the battery packs I have I get 1:45 on high but when I ride I switch modes to suit the terrain so when climbing its on low etc. I have been thinking about a couple of remote switches but I hate clutter, I'm with TiGeo I hate the long cables which come with the lights and battery packs.


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> My ghetto-fabulous Yinding set up with the cheap-o battery held on with an Awesome Strap.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Off topic dude how wide are your bars?

And to add still no light or refund from DX.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

720mm

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Well after reading through this novel, you all pressured me to order one from Wallbuys. Hopefully it gets here soon. Thanks for all the great info folks.


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

Hmmm... was just on the Wallbuys site and somehow managed to purchase one of the Yinding XM-L2 T6's... not really sure how that happened? 

Do I need it.... no, not at all....

Are my MJ872's perfectly adequate.... yes, of course they are....

But when I read this, I gotta have one for gadget factor alone....


TiGeo said:


> Holy crap It's so freaking SMALL!


.

Got thermal paste ready for it's arrival.... CHECK!


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Help me out as a new guy to these lights. Where exactly are you advocating the application of thermal paste?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

The Yinding shouldn't need any and is ready to as-is.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Bearhunter said:


> Help me out as a new guy to these lights. Where exactly are you advocating the application of thermal paste?


It may or may not, but if you remove the 2 front screws and remove the lenses etc, there's a board with the LEDs sitting under them, the thermal paste is between that and the body. Both of mine had sufficient paste but I don't think it was quality stuff so I added some good stuff. Also one of my Yindings had the wires that connect to the face of the LED board bunched under the LED board itself so it was not making full contact with the body. Just disassemble first and make sure everything looks assembled correctly.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Hey thanks guys, I appreciate it!


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Hey guys, 

For those that ordered through Wallbuys, did you do it on a PC or through the mobile site on your phone?

I tried to place an order via a PC at work (which did not work due to firewalls), and noticed that it asks you for the country you live in, and your phone number. 

Anyway, I ended up placing the order via the mobile site on my phone, but it did not prompt me for the country or phone number. I assume my paypal confirmation is good enough?


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

garrybunk said:


> Just spotted a Gemini Duo clone on Amazon (sellers appears to be in China) with the 10 step "stepless adjusted" driver and XM-L2's. Little pricey at $63.17.
> 
> -Garry


This looks like the same unit being sold for less at lightmalls:

2xCree XM-L2 2500-Lumen With 2 group modes LED Bicycle Light With Charger & 6*18650 Battery Set - 2LED Bike Light - LED Bicycle Lights - Bike Lights & Headlamps Worldwide Free Shipping!!!

I'm planning on ordering a couple sets... Anyone have any feedback on this unit?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Bearhunter said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> For those that ordered through Wallbuys, did you do it on a PC or through the mobile site on your phone?
> 
> ...


From a PC - no issues.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

slabber said:


> This looks like the same unit being sold for less at lightmalls:
> 
> 2xCree XM-L2 2500-Lumen With 2 group modes LED Bicycle Light With Charger & 6*18650 Battery Set - 2LED Bike Light - LED Bicycle Lights - Bike Lights & Headlamps Worldwide Free Shipping!!!
> 
> I'm planning on ordering a couple sets... Anyone have any feedback on this unit?


That is the clone of the Yinding (clone of a clone). Someone here has a review...search through the posts related to the Yinding or the Gemini Duo clone..there are a few different threads and I can't remember which one has this. Not as nice as the Yinding is what I recall.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> From a PC - no issues.


Thanks TiGeo, I'm hoping since I did it through mobile and wasn't prompted for country and phone number that I will be good. It just went straight to PayPal. Should be just like buying in eBay, I imagine.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Exactly the same.

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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks brother. Looking forward to receiving it. Hope it's quick, as I have a different purchase off eBay that is still in China somewhere.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

It was 3 weeks order to door and the tracking worked fine.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> It was 3 weeks order to door and the tracking worked fine.


Tracking off their website based off order number I assume?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Yep. Order number will be found from paypal.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks again TiGeo!


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## diylighter (Sep 4, 2008)

*SecurityIng 2 x Cree headlamp*

Anyone own one of these? SecurityIng® 2 x CREE XM-L T6 LED 3-Mode 1800LM Headlamp, CREE LED Lamp Headlight with Adjustable Base (No Battery) - Led Lights - Amazon.com

I recently purchased another, single-led headlamp and easily converted it for helmet use (elastic slips out, velcro goes in), so I'm tempted to try this one with dual Cree setup.

I've noted the runtimes for 2-cell lamps like the Duo and it seems that with 2 LEDs, you get a decent runtime and lumens if you run them off of max, as opposed to turbo/high mode on a single LED.

Thanks in advance.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

diylighter said:


> Anyone own one of these? SecurityIng® 2 x CREE XM-L T6 LED 3-Mode 1800LM Headlamp, CREE LED Lamp Headlight with Adjustable Base (No Battery) - Led Lights - Amazon.com
> 
> I recently purchased another, single-led headlamp and easily converted it for helmet use (elastic slips out, velcro goes in), so I'm tempted to try this one with dual Cree setup.
> 
> ...


Wrong thread..this is for the Gemini Duo clones...


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

I just bought a second Yinding (thanks TiGeo for the coupon hookup) to replace a 3X XML2 U2 Stepless that I was less than impressed with. I got my first Yinding early on from Aliexpress and other than stripped screws on the front plate it has worked perfectly. It overpowers the 3X (low on Yinding is medium on 3X) and the color difference bugged me so I decided to just run 2 Yindings, which is what I should have done to begin with.


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

8 or 9 weeks still no light or refund.
DX.com :banghead:


Aliexpress Another site to look at.

Edit


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Smoke&Lasers said:


> 8 or 9 weeks still no light or refund.
> DX :banghead:
> Aliexpress Another site to look at.


Don't tell me that... Who did you order from?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Bearhunter said:


> Don't tell me that... Who did you order from?


It's right in his post. DX.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Whoops I'm on my phone and I thought it was part of his "banghead" image code.


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

No but it could be DX new logo.

Aliexpress lightmalls wallbuys & Fast.... website are they sister companies of DX.com ?

Just looked lightmalls don't sell Yinding.


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## Tbone77 (Jun 16, 2013)

So I see two versions, one says xml2 and the other XML-U2 Is one better than the other?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Get the XML2..its the newest version. The board says U2 but the LEDs have been replaced with the L2 version. This is all based on some of the tear-down threads on this light.


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## Tbone77 (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks for the info. Just ordered the xml2 version, it was only $2 more than the xml u2 version.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Tbone77 said:


> Thanks for the info. Just ordered the xml2 version, it was only $2 more than the xml u2 version.


Exactly..why not get the latest and greatest?


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> Get the XML2..its the newest version. The board says U2 but the LEDs have been replaced with the L2 version. This is all based on some of the tear-down threads on this light.


TiGeo, I see you're in CA as well. When purchasing this through this Wallbuys' website, what shipping method did you choose?

Seems like there's 4 "free shipping" versions but I've never heard of any of these carriers nor ever seen them here as delivery trucks. :skep:








[/URL]

Also, just to be sure, this is the version that has the latest LEDs?
$48.48 Yinding 2 x CREE XM-L2 T6-3B 1600LM 4-Mode Dual Head White LED Bicycle Lamp + 8.4v Battery Pack + Charger-Black


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I am in VA..not CA. The one in the link is the right one. I chose EMS (the one with USA in it).

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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> I am in VA..not CA. The one in the link is the right one. I choose EMS (the one with USA in it).
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


OH my bad - for some reason I thought I read CA, doh!

You know, I was thinking the same thing too, choose the one that has the word USA in it but what caught me off guard is the fact that everytime I select it, the 'Ship my orders(s) to' menu changes to: "AE-United Arab Emirates"

If I go back and change that pull down to US, a $2.42 charge pops up for EMS.

This is why I figured I'd ask.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Not sure on that one...I remember the happening but I got free shipping.

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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

I used the mobile website on my phone to make the purchase, I don't remember if I had a choice or not. I did get a tracking number that begins with "LN" and it it shows up in USPS tracking as processing order for shipment (as of this morning). Did yours come via USPS?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

No idea..can't remember. It showed up..thats all I know. I just played around on the Wallbuys site; I was able to choose US and the EMS without a charge.


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## Rim21 (Apr 12, 2014)

I posted 2 weeks ago that I took the plunge and bought the Yinding clone through ebay for a nice price and today I received the delivery. Umm yeah I will simply repeat all the 'wow' comments that came before me - love the size etc. Of course need to use it in anger to see how well it will perform for me.

The funny thing is that it came in a Securitylng box where the picture on the front is a single lens light so I thought I got the wrong delivery - but I didn't. Really happy for the price.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

My tracking says it processed through Jamaica, NY, so hopefully it won't be that much longer. I was pretty surprised how fast it got from China to NY.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Bearhunter said:


> I used the mobile website on my phone to make the purchase, I don't remember if I had a choice or not. I did get a tracking number that begins with "LN" and it it shows up in USPS tracking as processing order for shipment (as of this morning). Did yours come via USPS?


Yeah, last mile was USPS.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Looks like I may get it tomorrow (hopefully). It was processed through about 1 1/2 hrs away from me about 30 minutes ago. That's pretty impressive 7 days from package acceptance in China.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

You will be stoked when you get it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Yeah I'm looking forward to it for sure. I don't remember from reading all the previous posts, but did you end up getting an aftermarket handlebar mount, or is the mounting system that comes with it good enough?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I am fine with the rubber band type..works great for me. Simple and effective.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> I am fine with the rubber band type..works great for me. Simple and effective.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Excellent thank you!


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

This light is small and lite enough that the rubber o-ring mount are sufficient.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

I did get it today and just mounted it. It is everything you guys have said it was. It's awesome, very happy with the purchase! I mounted it close to the stem, and since the bar is wider at that location, I had to build up the underside with some rubber splicing tape for full contact. Tested the light real quick, and it works great. I have the batteries trickle charging right now.

Very impressed with Wallbuys as well. 7 days from time they shipped to my door.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

This thing is flipping impressive. Hard to get a pic of what the actual output looks like on my phone. Here it is on the high setting.


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

Bearhunter
Looks very cool on the fatty & seven days to US. 

I got the bank involved with none deliver or refund. Once sorted will buy from Wallbuys to UK


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks Smoke,

I've been toying around with the mounting location of the battery pack. It fits great on top of the stem, but then you have the wires to deal with. I think I'm going to get a tank bag and stuff the batteries and excess wires in there.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

robs31 said:


> This light is small and lite enough that the rubber o-ring mount are sufficient.


Even with the larger/heavier MS-808 the band mount works fine to me.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Bearhunter said:


> Thanks Smoke,
> 
> I've been toying around with the mounting location of the battery pack. It fits great on top of the stem, but then you have the wires to deal with. I think I'm going to get a tank bag and stuff the batteries and excess wires in there.


I wrapped the excess battery wire around the battery, zip-tied it, and stuffed the whole thing in the nylon pouch it came with. I cut off the strap (I use an Awesome Strap from backcountry.com) and it seems to work just fine.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> I wrapped the excess battery wire around the battery, zip-tied it, and stuffed the whole thing in the nylon pouch it came with. I cut off the strap (I use an Awesome Strap from backcountry.com) and it seems to work just fine.


Yeah I noticed that. You have it mounted to your top tube right? I didn't realize that you wrapped the wire around the battery and put it back in the pouch. Good idea


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## Tbone77 (Jun 16, 2013)

That is a great idea, on my other light I have the cable bundled up outside the pouch


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Played around with a stem bag and I didn't like it. I wrapped the cord around the battery, and inserted it into the case like TiGeo mentioned, and also wrapped the excess cord coming from the light around the stem. When I mount the case it covers everything up. I like this a lot better.


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## ElTroy (Mar 25, 2014)

Has anyone ordered successfully through fasttech.com


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

ElTroy said:


> Has anyone ordered successfully through fasttech.com


Haven't ordered clone lights but have ordered some lenses for it successfully thru Fasttech, they take a long time just about gave up.


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## ElTroy (Mar 25, 2014)

socal_jack said:


> Haven't ordered clone lights but have ordered some lenses for it successfully thru Fasttech, they take a long time just about gave up.


gotcha hmm I'm thinking of going with wallbuys


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

Well I played the lottery again and this time I lost. I ordered the T6-3B from Wallbuys and it is not a 3B tint like the one I got from Aliexpress a few months ago. It does have XML2 emitters but had the flat lenses, says 2xL2 (other is 2xU2), is slightly shorter and the button protrudes further from the body. I'll do a full write up comparison in the next couple of days.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

ElTroy said:


> gotcha hmm I'm thinking of going with wallbuys


When I ordered lenses thru LED DNA.com took about 2 weeks maybe, Fasttech took almost 5 weeks.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Wallbuys has 3 weeks for me and less for someone else that recently purchased..no-brainer..go with Wallbuys! Buddy of mine was so stocked on my Yinding he is ordering a few and I am grabbing a second from him for my helmet..may look at changing up the optics to give a more narrow/focused beam on the helmet and leave the bar as it is.


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

Mine just came in and it looks like my chinese gamble didn't go so well.

Upon full charge, on high, it immediately drops to red as if the battery is not fully charged. I have an old 'Magicshine 808E clone' battery pack and charger which I think is the same thing. I'll see if i can find out what's faulty.

Also, anyone notice this light buzzes pretty loud? Especially on the lower settings. I don't even have to put my ear up to it in a quite room, thing just buzzes! damn! Don't know if that's a sign of anything, just something I noticed.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

I have to put my ear right up to it in order to hear a faint high pitch buzz (only on low/med setting). Nothing on high or in strobe mode. 

My indicator light will go to red after I switch to high. It will stay green on low/med. 

Is that about what you are experiencing?

Switching topics: where exactly do you check for and add thermal paste? I'm a visual person, so if anyone has any pics it would really help me out.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

No buzz from mine; stays green for 1.5 hours (can't remember exactly). No issues with mine so far.


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

Bearhunter said:


> I have to put my ear right up to it in order to hear a faint high pitch buzz (only on low/med setting). Nothing on high or in strobe mode.
> 
> My indicator light will go to red after I switch to high. It will stay green on low/med.
> 
> ...


Hi Bearhunter, that does indeed appear to be what I'm experiencing. Stays green on low/med but once it switches to high, it stays red even if going back to low/med.

So as I said I would, I dug out my old MS 808e clone & battery (about 2 yrs old - Amazon shows I purchased it $36 on November 2, 2012) and it does *not* exhibit the same behavior of the battery that came from Wallbuys. It stays green on high. So it looks like the wallbuy's battery pack might be the culprit. :skep:

Next up, I'll have to test the duration of both on high and compare. But I'm guessing my other battery will outlast the wallbuy battery.

And I know it's been said multiple times before but goddamn this thing is small!

Check out this pic i took next to my other lights for reference.



from left to right: cygolite centauri 1000, niterider lumina 650, MS 808e clone, gemini duo clone, light & motion taz 1200

This Gemini Duo clone definitely gets hot fast though! :eekster:


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

KVW said:


> So as I said I would, I dug out my old MS 808e clone & battery (about 2 yrs old - Amazon shows I purchased it $36 on November 2, 2012) and it does *not* exhibit the same behavior of the battery that came from Wallbuys. It stays green on high. So it looks like the wallbuy's battery pack might be the culprit. :skep:
> 
> Next up, I'll have to test the duration of both on high and compare. But I'm guessing my other battery will outlast the wallbuy battery.
> 
> ...


Very interesting (Re: different battery pack). I have some new batteries enroute so I assume I'll have the same results.

Did you open the head unit up and check the thermal paste as mentioned earlier in the thread? I'm still not sure what I'm looking for or where to check.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

The batteries are where they can increase profit margins. There are reports of 2000mAhr batteries! Runtime tests with a fan blowing are a good idea before you head out on that 3hr ride in the hills. 
My new fasttech battery lasts ~ 3/4 as long as my three year old gloworm battery...


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

znomit said:


> The batteries are where they can increase profit margins. There are reports of 2000mAhr batteries! Runtime tests with a fan blowing are a good idea before you head out on that 3hr ride in the hills.
> My new fasttech battery lasts ~ 3/4 as long as my three year old gloworm battery...


That's good to know. It's too bad wallbuys doesn't just sell the light by itself for cheaper so we just buy a higher quality battery pack somewhere else. It's not as good of a value if you get a decent headlight that last but a subpar battery cluster.



Bearhunter said:


> Did you open the head unit up and check the thermal paste as mentioned earlier in the thread? I'm still not sure what I'm looking for or where to check.


I haven't yet but will try and check once the lenses come in from LEDDNA. But honestly, I'm not even sure I'll be able to tell much of anything because if they're anything like PC cpu/heatsink, you really wouldn't be able to see how much thermal paste they use without separating it. But then you'd have to clean it properly and reapply... er well you at least *should*. Perhaps LEDs are completely different though - maybe someone else can chime in.

*Edit* Did some web searching on the subject. 
Judging from these two videos:
6. DIY NANO aquarium HIGH power LED light - YouTube

Applying Thermal Paste to an Ultrafire Flashlight - YouTube

You essentially mate the entire LED assembly to the chassis with compound. Weird. I mean the first video makes sense since it has aluminum backing (assuming the metal back goes through the PCB board and makes contact with the LED), but in the 2nd video, he seems to be mating the PCB board itself to the chassis. Would a fiberglass board be a terrible heat conductor? I wouldn't think it would be very effective at all. :skep:


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Thank you that was very helpful. Yeah I'm not sure how the thermal paste works in the second video. He seemed to replace a "washer" type insert with the paste.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Smoke&Lasers said:


> 8 or 9 weeks still no light or refund.
> DX.com :banghead:
> 
> Aliexpress Another site to look at.
> ...


I always use PayPal when I order through DX.com. They are usually pretty good, but once or twice they messed up. Customer service is non-existant. So, pay with PayPal, if something goes wonky, pull the payment, and reorder.

IMO, it's an acceptable price of doing biz at DX prices.


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

Mine also goes to red as soon as I go to high. Good indicator of a poor battery. The connectors don't fit with any of my other batteries so I haven't been able to test it with another. I don't have any buzzing with mine. I did open mine to change out the lenses and could see a small amount of thermal paste that had squeezed out around the board and the case heats up quickly so I'm not worried about it. I'll replace the paste when I swap out the led's for the T6-3B's that I ordered.

I ran the light with the LEDDNA 45 and 60 lens and love it as a bar light when paired with my good Yinding on the helmet. Not much throw out of it but I really don't need much throw on the trails I ride.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

robs31 said:


> Mine also goes to red as soon as I go to high. Good indicator of a poor battery. The connectors don't fit with any of my other batteries so I haven't been able to test it with another. I don't have any buzzing with mine. I did open mine to change out the lenses and could see a small amount of thermal paste that had squeezed out around the board and the case heats up quickly so I'm not worried about it. I'll replace the paste when I swap out the led's for the T6-3B's that I ordered.
> 
> I ran the light with the LEDDNA 45 and 60 lens and love it as a bar light when paired with my good Yinding on the helmet. Not much throw out of it but I really don't need much throw on the trails I ride.


Hey that's a good point about the case heating up quickly. Mine does as well. I couldn't hear mine buzz either until I put my ear right up to it. Then again it may be that my hearing is going south after 22 years in the military. After thinking about it, maybe it's a function of cheap batteries and voltage regulation on low/med? I've been reading the "battery thread" and seriously considering the "Hung_Lee" battery pack with magic shine connectors (I think those are the screw on connectors?).


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

I got two hunk lee's and their great. Just be sure to request the screw type connectors and the male side also so you can change out the connector on the light head too. I got a two cell for the helmet (3400) and a 4 cell for the bars (6100).


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## Tbone77 (Jun 16, 2013)

Never heard of hung lee before, can you recommend a place to order em from? Part #s would be great too


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

He sells on ebay.
For Laptop Notebook, Single Cell 0-1Ah items in A-OK battery store on eBay!


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

robs31 said:


> I got two hunk lee's and their great. Just be sure to request the screw type connectors and the male side also so you can change out the connector on the light head too. I got a two cell for the helmet (3400) and a 4 cell for the bars (6100).


I take it, any of these "Magicshine" light batteries offered by "Hunk Lee" will work (considering my MS clone works)?

magic shine from hunk_lee | eBay

Also, anyone notice these "Yinding" lights claim they use 8.4v battery packs but all these Magic Shine battery packs say 7.4v which would make sense if it's just *paring* two 3.7v, 18650 batteries in parallel, in series to make a pack of 4... Where does the extra 1v come from? Are they just overstating it by 1v just to lie/sell?

I haven't verified yet as it's extremely hard for me to tell, switching back and forth, but my other battery pack (MS 808e clone), the one that doesn't immediately turn the light red in high mode, *might* be slightly dimmer than the Yinding battery pack. Definitely not 100% here because by the time I switch over, it's hard to remember if the road was 'as bright' as the other but my gut tells me it's slightly dimmer.

Warning, I don't know sh!t bout electronics as I'm sure you can tell by now, lol, but ... if that's the case, *Maybe* the non-Yinding battery pack is outputting slightly less volts (7.4v vs 8.4v, as I stated earlier) which is not taking the load up to the same "high" that a Yinding battery does and effectively not throwing the switch in to "red" mode? In other words, it follows the same behavior as low/medium because this battery pack is not as powerful? This doesn't make sense to me because I'm guessing it goes by voltage drop as an indicator of lower capacity, not the other way around. I wish I had something that could measure lumens. I tried taking pictures but both pictures looked exactly the same but I swear the Yinding battery pack is slightly brighter. :skep:

Also, last night I tried to time the run-time of the Yinding pack on high but I didn't even make it 10 mins before the light massively dimmed. But it wasn't because the battery pack died, it was because it went into thermal protection mode - I could hardly even touch the light! Apparently my little fan wasn't sufficient - You really need some seriously air blowing on this thing! I can easily see this being an issue on a warm summer night. I mean you're not always hauling ass. But I guess this is to be expected with such a tiny light housing with so little surface area. Anyway I plan to try again soon, but I'll need to dig out my big-ass industrial fan from my garage first.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

7.4 is the average battery voltage, they charge up to 8.4V. So you can use either value.

It drops during use. Yes your light might run a bit dimmer as the battery runs down, ideally the driver circuit should output the same current to the LEDs but in practice that doesn't happen.

Did an initial test run on my HunkLee 5800mAhr battery, it ran my little magic shine light on low for 36hrs, vs 21hr for my fasttech battery I got with the Yinding. That included being on high for two hours so probably more like 38 vs 21 hrs. :thumbsup:


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

robs31 said:


> I got two hunk lee's and their great. Just be sure to request the screw type connectors and the male side also so you can change out the connector on the light head too. I got a two cell for the helmet (3400) and a 4 cell for the bars (6100).


Agree; got mine but it has the crappy connectors that don't lock/snap together. They say "Magicshine" but the connectors are anything but...I believe you can request that he makes them with the proper connectors. Also realize that you can get nice batteries through action-LED for about the same price.


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

Bearhunter said:


> Thank you that was very helpful. Yeah I'm not sure how the thermal paste works in the second video. He seemed to replace a "washer" type insert with the paste.


My replacement lens just came in so after opening it up, I can confirm they used plenty of thermal paste on the backside of the led assembly. I know this was mentioned already bout Yinding but never hurts to have others confirm incase they start cutting corners. 



robs31 said:


> Mine also goes to red as soon as I go to high. Good indicator of a poor battery. The connectors don't fit with any of my other batteries so I haven't been able to test it with another. I don't have any buzzing with mine. I did open mine to change out the lenses and could see a small amount of thermal paste that had squeezed out around the board and the case heats up quickly so I'm not worried about it. I'll replace the paste when I swap out the led's for the T6-3B's that I ordered.
> 
> I ran the light with the LEDDNA 45 and 60 lens and love it as a bar light when paired with my good Yinding on the helmet. Not much throw out of it but I really don't need much throw on the trails I ride.


I purchased a pair of 10,15, 45, and 60* lenses from LEDDNA as well, and notice all the lenses did look different than the stock lens. What would you say the stock lens most closely represent as far as angle?

Also is it that easy to replace the LEDs? Do the pair of T6-3b come as a pair on a similar shaped assembly as what's currently in the Yinding chassis? Post a pic or two of the process when you get em. Really interested in seeing that.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks KV, I haven't taken mine apart yet.


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## Tbone77 (Jun 16, 2013)

Been waiting 3 weeks so far from wallbuys, hoping it arrives soon. 
Tempted to buy some different lenses so also interested in how the stock one compares.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

I think the stock lenses are great, but it could be that I don't know any better.


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

WOW my light was delivered today just shy of Three months! 
As said before nice built headlight, I have a proper look tonight.

I told my Bank as they calming my refund still one item missing from DX.
Next time I would buy from Wallbuys









UK coin for size.









Next to my old Magicshine 808


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

I;ve got mine in now. Just got the battery case, loaded it up and tested it.
Wow it was bright! 
I then charged the batteries and attempted to futz around with modes..Now my L-M-H is 20% of what it was, I think I have put it into an alternate mode....But of course no instructions... It has L-M-H and strobe....
Tony


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

KVW said:


> I purchased a pair of 10,15, 45, and 60* lenses from LEDDNA as well, and notice all the lenses did look different than the stock lens. What would you say the stock lens most closely represent as far as angle?
> 
> Also is it that easy to replace the LEDs? Do the pair of T6-3b come as a pair on a similar shaped assembly as what's currently in the Yinding chassis? Post a pic or two of the process when you get em. Really interested in seeing that.


The stock lenses are pretty tight so I'd say 10-15.

As for replacing the LED's, do a youtube search for 'how to reflow led'. You have to either buy the new LED's as bare emitters (couldn't find bare emitters in the bin I wanted) or buy them already mounted on star's. You then have to heat the star to remove them and then reflow them on to the existing. Looks pretty straight forward but since I've never done it before, I'm a little nervous. Don't want to screw up my light.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

robs31 said:


> The stock lenses are pretty tight so I'd say 10-15.
> 
> As for replacing the LED's, do a youtube search for 'how to reflow led'. You have to either buy the new LED's as bare emitters (couldn't find bare emitters in the bin I wanted) or buy them already mounted on star's. You then have to heat the star to remove them and then reflow them on to the existing. Looks pretty straight forward but since I've never done it before, I'm a little nervous. Don't want to screw up my light.


The best place for getting answers to this kind of stuff is over on the DIY forum, just an FYI.

Messing with these cheap lamps can be a hassle. While some are better to work with than others there are still things to consider. Even if you can access the plate or board which holds the emitters, removing and replacing the emitters might not be as easy as it looks. With the right tools it can be done but it will require some patience and a bit of knowledge. Even if you get to the point where you have replaced the emitters you then have to make sure the emitters are lined up right with the optics ( or reflectors ) so that they are properly centered.

All things considered if you want to retro-fit your lamp with different emitters it is best that you be willing to use that lamp as your "Beta" unit. That said I would buy a second and have it standing by just in case something goes wrong.

Personally I've never attempted to swap out emitters on a bike lamp. I've taken a look at some of the ones I have and just decided that it's just easier to just buy a new lamp with newer emitters. In the long run the cost is about the same ( if just buying a new lamp head ).

With all this said I have a torch that I ordered a new emitter for. I already know how to take it apart so replacing the emitter should be pretty simple. I have the emitter I just haven't gotten around to finding the time to mess with it. Then again I have so many lamps and torches that it really isn't on my "must do" list. Hmmm...got some time today maybe go down to Radio Shack and buy some thermal paste and some desoldering braid ( otherwise known as solder wick )


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

I am stuck with this one...Seems like it went into an overheat mode.....

It still has the 3 modes and strobe, just at greatly reduced outputs..I guess I should pull it apart. Not sure what to look for though.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

That's weird. So you were playing around with the modes and it remained at reduced output? Have you recharged the battery pack or have another battery pack to check?


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

Initially in the garage it put out a ton of light..I was like cool. Tried a couple different modes...then all of a sudden, reduced output. I took the 4 individual keeppower cells and charged them. I use one of those 4 cell 2s2p holders. Now I have the modes like I should, but the output is miniscule....on high its like I dunno, 100 lumens? very low.
on low its like 1 lumen...it strobes , but again, very dim. I took it apart but dont know what i'm looking for. Solder looks good


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

The one I got from Fasttech the thermal control halves the output... so still plenty bright.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

CdaleTony said:


> Initially in the garage it put out a ton of light..I was like cool. Tried a couple different modes...then all of a sudden, reduced output. I took the 4 individual keeppower cells and charged them. I use one of those 4 cell 2s2p holders. Now I have the modes like I should, but the output is miniscule....on high its like I dunno, 100 lumens? very low.
> on low its like 1 lumen...it strobes , but again, very dim. I took it apart but dont know what i'm looking for. Solder looks good


That doesn't sound right at all. How long were you testing out the different modes when this happened?



znomit said:


> The one I got from Fasttech the thermal control halves the output... so still plenty bright.


But it returned back to normal after it cooled off right?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Bearhunter said:


> But it returned back to normal after it cooled off right?


Yes. Theres no hysteresis in the circuit so as it heats up it starts to blink high/low as it passes the set temperature before settling on low. Not sure what happens if it gets significantly hotter.... I'm sure even on medium these thing would cook if left on too long when stopped.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

I tested it for 30 seconds...went in the house to find a dark room, played with the modes and it went into this comatose state...Figure I would charge the batteries while I was there...no change.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

CdaleTony said:


> I tested it for 30 seconds...went in the house to find a dark room, played with the modes and it went into this comatose state...Figure I would charge the batteries while I was there...no change.


Step one; test it with another battery set-up, if no change then at least it has nothing to do with the battery holder.

It could possibly be a bad power connection inside the lamp or a problem with the driver...in which case if it's the driver it's pretty much done. Try moving the wire around while the lamp is on. If there's a partially break in the wire you might see the lamp get bright for a sec. If this happens you can fix it if you can find the weak spot.

If you don't see a change by moving/bending the wires ( this will sound stupid but..) try banging the lamp on something hard and see if you see any momentary brightness. This would indicate a lose connection inside the lamp that just might be fixable.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Ok...been searching but can't find it...any of the folks that frequent this thread remember where the beam shots of the Yinding are with the various lens from LEDDNA are? I just ordered another Yinding (this is addictive!) so I can run one on the helmet/one on the bar and was thinking of swapping out the bar lens to get more flood. The neutral color of these things is great and I think the Solar Storm is too white to run along side the Yinding.

Edit. Ordered 2x45-deg lenses from LEDDNA...$2...big spender


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## Tbone77 (Jun 16, 2013)

I ordered mine from wallbuys, it's going into the 6th week now and no sign of it. 
What's the average you've had to wait for it? I used wallbuys because it sounded like they were quick compared to the other vendors


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## ElTroy (Mar 25, 2014)

It took them about 3 days to even confirm my order then two days to ship and about 2 weeks in transit so roughly 3 weeks for me from wallbuys


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

TiGeo said:


> Ok...been searching but can't find it...any of the folks that frequent this thread remember where the beam shots of the Yinding are with the various lens from LEDDNA are? I just ordered another Yinding (this is addictive!) so I can run one on the helmet/one on the bar and was thinking of swapping out the bar lens to get more flood. The neutral color of these things is great and I think the Solar Storm is too white to run along side the Yinding.
> 
> Edit. Ordered 2x45-deg lenses from LEDDNA...$2...big spender


Did you get the clear or frosted 45 deg lenses? I got some frosted and it knocked the light down too much also got 30 clear and they work pretty good, think I should just get some 45 clear versions to compare.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Just dropped in the 45 degree clear optics from LEDDNA. Came in less than 2 weeks. Easy install, will try in a few days. Beam shot in dark garage certainly looks more broad. $2 delivered.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

So I got my second one today from Wallbuys, took a little over 2 weeks..not bad! Some issues here...this is not the same light as the one I originally bought/reviewed here. The differences:

While the exterior case is the same, the lenses are smooth across the front instead of dimpled.
The mount is crappy; it doesn't sit flush and sticks way out of the back (like the photos of the Yinding clone [clone of clone]). I will dremel the part down that is causing the interference. The rubber piece on the mount isn't as nice.
The battery is shrink-wrapped in blue rather than black.
The battery cable connectors are not the snap-together MS type, but the cheaper type that are easy to pull apart and won't be waterproof.
The rubber bands are more like the MS type; my original came with tabbed-bands that were softer.
The light doesn't "softly" increase in brightness when you change levels from low to high.
And finally, the button on the back looks different and has a harder click.

I think I got one of the cheaper more current versions..still plenty bright!


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Got exactly the same from Wallbuys yesterday for my friend. All that things + front panel doesnt have any o-rings around the body and lenses (you can upgrade that with 1mm o-rings of correct diameter that you can buy at your local store)
The battery is crap, did not test it yet, but I fell it doesnt run more than 1h on full.

PS: I ordered this sku
$48.48 Yinding 2 x CREE XM-L2 T6-3B 1600LM 4-Mode Dual Head White LED Bicycle Lamp + 8.4v Battery Pack + Charger-Black
but instead I got this one
$46.46 Yinding 2 x CREE XM-L U2 1800LM 4-Mode White LED Bike Light / Headlamp-Black(4x18650)
(The review below this sku is mine. It is for the sku mentioned above (original yinding) and not this crapy fake cheepo) 
Those Wallbuys are chinese fu... and I am never going to buy anything from them. Not to mention their web site is crap.

I am still thinking on fileing complain.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I don't think my "good" one had o-rings around the individual lenses, only the body.

Edit: Wrong, my "good" one which appears to be the first-gen modded with XM-L2 emitters has small clear o-rings around each lens AND the whole front bezel where it meets the main body. The second one I received is certainly not of the same quality.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Interesting, I just looked on the Wallbuys site; the one I ordered shows as the original in the pics and is sku#13047. The one I received (crappier one) is shown as well, but as sku#10809. I sold this one to a buddy so I am going to leave it alone..but if it was for me, I would go back to Wallbuys and ask for either my money back/return or have them send me the other (if it is even available).


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Where is the sku located. You have me curious as to which one I received.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Its just what Wallbuys has listed for the 2 different lights on their site. One is what I got, the other is like my original. I ordered another original, and got the crappier one. I think I will take it up with them as that is crappy..but hey...its $45 and still works fine.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

@ TiGeo... did you test the battery runtime (on high till temperature step down) ?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Check out my posts on page 20.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Has anyone replaced/upgraded their LEDs in their Yinding? I started a thread about this in the DIY forum, but didn't get any responses.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

TiGeo said:


> ^^^Check out my posts on page 20.


For the "clone" that you have recently got. Not for "original"

Mine has 1,5h runtime on high till it starts slowly to cool down. Green light illuminates for 5 min, then goes to red fo the whole runtime.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

bhocewar said:


> For the "clone" that you have recently got. Not for "original"
> 
> Mine has 1,5h runtime on high till it starts slowly to cool down. Green light illuminates for 5 min, then goes to red fo the whole runtime.


Ok, I didn't do a run-time test on the clone - sold it to a buddy the day I got it. I have actually talked to Wallbuys about this and am waiting to see what they will do (if anything). I want another original!


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

I will write them too !!!


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

zuuds said:


> Has anyone replaced/upgraded their LEDs in their Yinding? I started a thread about this in the DIY forum, but didn't get any responses.


I got some L2 T6 3B LED's to replace the ones in my clone (same issue as the other guys expecting the original) but haven't gotten around to swapping them out. I also posted in DIY for info on reflowing but no responses. Looks pretty straight forward though.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

...more than a week since I wrote to Wallbuys regarding the yinding clone scam and still no answer. Very disappointed.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Anyone know if someone sells a replacement double-o ring for the front of this light?


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

Can't believe how bright this light is on low 
Looking at threads here I gone with the go pro mount mod, look so much neater and fit my lid better.


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## bigdog100 (Sep 13, 2009)

How much was light and where is battery mounted?



Smoke&Lasers said:


> Can't believe how bright this light is on low
> Looking at threads here I gone with the go pro mount mod, look so much neater and fit my lid better.


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

I got an extension cable from light to battery and I stuck battery in camelbak. Local rides I look at velcro battery to seat post. 

Price I would have to look, I did get from DX but I wouldn't use them again as it took three months to get to UK! Items use to take 3 - 4 weeks.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Vancbiker here on MTBR sells very nice GoPro adapters that are much smaller. You can get plastic or aluminum too.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

*First ride with the Gemini Duo*

I just recently got the chance to take my Gemini Duo for a pure technical twisty single track ride at night. My experienced surprised me a bit because I found the best setting for the Duo was low, maybe medium when it got very technical and fast. I found that high was too much and gave too much glare and bounce back.

Keep in mind, that my Gemini Duo was bought last December when the original models weren't available. Mine has the flat front and cheap connectors. With that said, I have been nothing but impressed with the light and even the battery run times. I definitely plan to buy another for my helmet. Both on low would be all the light I could ever need on my local trail and both on high would be enough for high speed runs.

High on single track (pitch black trail)


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

On Low








On Medium








On High








All pictures taken with a Galaxy S5 and appear dimmer than in real life.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Vancbiker here on MTBR sells very nice GoPro adapters that are much smaller. You can get plastic or aluminum too.


Thanks for the plug!!!!

@Smoke&Lasers: Here is a link to a post showing how one duo clone user set up my adapter similar to how you have fitted the DX unit....

MagicShine GoPro Replacment Mount - Page 4


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## inch (Feb 6, 2014)

Lightmalls sells a clone without the battery pack, it seems that the front screws are missing, which is a no-go for me.

Anyone brave enough to confirm this?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

inch said:


> Lightmalls sells a clone without the battery pack, it seems that the front screws are missing, which is a no-go for me.
> 
> Anyone brave enough to confirm this?


I was considering getting that one, esp. because of the 2 group programmable driver (should be same as Cat's KD Tri-Clone). I didn't take notice of the missing front screws.

-Garry


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

garrybunk said:


> I was considering getting that one, esp. because of the 2 group programmable driver (should be same as Cat's KD Tri-Clone). I didn't take notice of the missing front screws.
> 
> -Garry


We bought a bunch of these, 9 units in total.

No, they don't have the screws on the front. There are two small allen head set screws at the back of the lamp on the underside behind the mount. Presumably they're holding the back cap/plate on. I haven't tried opening either of my two lamps to check though.

The lights otherwise work great and the programmable aspect was one of the primary reasons I chose this particular unit. No complaints.


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## inch (Feb 6, 2014)

Thanks! Any chance that you might open yours... for the sake of the world?  (I would like to know if the front is removeable please!)


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

If those pics are real photos of the lamp (not computer rendering) then the front panel is not removable (no line between the body and front panel)...so the heat managment might be an issue.


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## inch (Feb 6, 2014)

That's exactly my question.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I just got one that arrived an hour ago. I see the 2 screws on the body, and I'll probably tear it apart at some point. I got one for a friend who did Tour Divide with it after I made her battery packs to use AAs she could get on the road.

I liked the 3 modes and the soft-steps between modes. The 10-step mode is interesting, but it takes 8 seconds to get to it and there seems to be no mode memory so you have to start over every time you turn it on.

I really wish they had the ability to go up one level with a click and down with a longer press, as do all the lights I build.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I removed the bar mount and undid the little allen screws, but still couldn't get the back cap off. Not sure if it's a very tight fit or glued shut, but it'll be hard to open without gouging something.

A heads-up- when you remove the bar mount you can see that this unit is *not* waterproof at all. The cable exits a hole in the mount with no cable gland or seal. I will be replacing it with a metal GoPro adapter, and placing silicone gasket-maker sealant in the gap.


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## inch (Feb 6, 2014)

Thanks, that's too bad. A high quality head and a selfbuilt battery stays a dream.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Meh, that's what you get for under $40.

I was hoping to play with the optics etc. and would use one of my home-waterproofed battery packs using 3400maH cells.

The connectors aren't waterproof either, but I'll cut it off and replace it or make a better seal with a heat-shrink cuff. Between that and silicone around the wire it should be decent.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Here's the light once I removed the mount and replaced it with one of Vancbiker's nice GoPro mounts. I added some fins for better heat transfer, and used thermal grease underneath. Also sealed the cable exit with silicone.


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## mociulski (May 15, 2014)

Hey,

I have the same headlamp and ran into the same issue the first time I tried to open it. It's not glued, just a tight fit between two aluminum pieces. You need to use a thin prying tool or the blade of a cutter to slide it open.

I'm actually very happy with it. I replaced the lens with 15/45 degree ones for better flood, added thermal grease and I'll probably get a Gopro mount adapter for it.

I've also got a Pannovo battery holder with four 3400mAh Panasonic cells, and after running it on medium brightness for about 5 hours the battery voltage is at 3.7V, so plenty of juice left.



Ofroad'bent said:


> I removed the bar mount and undid the little allen screws, but still couldn't get the back cap off. Not sure if it's a very tight fit or glued shut, but it'll be hard to open without gouging something.
> 
> A heads-up- when you remove the bar mount you can see that this unit is *not* waterproof at all. The cable exits a hole in the mount with no cable gland or seal. I will be replacing it with a metal GoPro adapter, and placing silicone gasket-maker sealant in the gap.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

OK, will pry it open just for fun, and make sure there's enough thermal grease.
BTW Vancbiker can make the mount with the fins now for better heat removal.


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## eTrex_FSR (Dec 18, 2009)

*AW: Gemini Duo clones*



mociulski said:


> Hey,
> 
> I've also got a Pannovo battery holder with four 3400mAh Panasonic cells, and after running it on medium brightness for about 5 hours the battery voltage is at 3.7V, so plenty of juice left.


3.7V on each cell? Or on the whole pack, what would be bad, not?


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## mociulski (May 15, 2014)

eTrex_FSR said:


> 3.7V on each cell? Or on the whole pack, what would be bad, not?


Yes, on each cell. On the whole pack it would be really bad.


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

mociulski said:


> Hey,
> 
> I have the same headlamp and ran into the same issue the first time I tried to open it. It's not glued, just a tight fit between two aluminum pieces. You need to use a thin prying tool or the blade of a cutter to slide it open.
> 
> ...


How is the led board mounted? Does everything come out the back?


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## Bicyclerider (Apr 18, 2014)

U2 is the updated version of T6. It is more bright than T6


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## mociulski (May 15, 2014)

robs31 said:


> How is the led board mounted? Does everything come out the back?


The led board is attached by two screws on two triangular shaped lips on the inside of the case. Yes, they all come out from the back.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Bicyclerider said:


> U2 is the updated version of T6. It is more bright than T6


U2 is brighter than a T6 but the U2 can be from the same generation as the T5, T6 etc. In the simplest terms, each batch of LEDs varies a little in their output. Manufacturers test and sort them by the output. The designations T6 and U2 just refer to the output range. Since higher output is deemed a good thing, the manufacturers price the higher output LEDs a bit higher.

Updated versions from Cree have lately been designated with the addition of 2 in the family name. XM-L became XM-L2 for example.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Ofroad'bent said:


> OK, will pry it open just for fun, and make sure there's enough thermal grease.
> BTW Vancbiker can make the mount with the fins now for better heat removal.


Got the light pried open. No thermal grease at all in there, and the LEDs on the board only contact the housing on the 2 triangular points, so heat transfer isn't great. I put grease between the LED board and the mounting, and carefully applied more all around.
There are o-rings between the optics and the front of the housing.
I also slipped a thin o-ring around the back section before reassembling to seal the housing. Thermal grease would have worked there too. With the silicone sealing the wire exit the thing is finally somewhat waterproof.

(I build my lights a lot more waterproof than this, but it's not bad now)

If I could change 1 of the 2 LEDs for a warm tint, it would be quite a good light.


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

^^That's one of my main gripes. I've come to terms that I got one of 'bait and switch' lights from walbuys, and even with the lesser quality, I would consider it still a good value if only the light had a warmer tint (similar to my L&M Taz), I would still be quite happy with it. Oh well.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Sorry for not reading thru the thread but can someone tell me if the Yinding comes in the newer version XML2 LED yet. I think I read somewhere that it does but didn't find it online.

Sorry, me being lazy.

Also, how do you guys helmet mount it.

Maybe I better read thru this thread.

MB


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^read. But with that said...

Yes...mine I got from Wallbuys has the XML2. Mounting-wise..just a standard Magicshine helmet mount will work.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

The lightmalls one is XML-2.

They also sell a helmet mount that work with it:
Helmet Mount For XML,SC P7 Bicycle lights Worldwide Free Shipping!!!

I used a metal GoPro adapter from Vancbiker and can use a GoPro helmet or headband mount, but he makes a less expensive plastic one too.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

The one that comes with the light is fine; just need to cut off the silly rock-climber strap and get a velcro strap..bam! I posted a pic of this at one point.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

This is probably one of the best batteries you will find, with real Panasonic cells and actual capacity as advertised.

A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 6200mAh LI ION Battery 4 3100mAh Cells TO 2S2P W PCM | eBay

You'll need to waterproof it. Self fusing silicone tape from Home Depot works well.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^The issue is that you have to make sure you get the proper Magicshine-style snap-in connector.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I just make my own adapters with some heat shrink tubing. It works well to make plugs water-resistant, well known on the DIY forum.


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> The one that comes with the light is fine; just need to cut off the silly rock-climber strap and get a velcro strap..bam! I posted a pic of this at one point.


I agree with TiGeo,

The one it comes with is fine. Cut the velcro straps off, add 3 zip ties and you're done. And the further you mount it up front, the less it sticks up above your head to catch on tree and such.





































Go Pro mount does look nice though.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Good solution. I like the light to sit lower down and more forward, so it doesn't catch on stuff.
The GoPro mount also sinks a fair bit of heat.


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Good solution. I like the light to sit lower down and more forward, so it doesn't catch on stuff.
> The GoPro mount also sinks a fair bit of heat.


The heat sinking is definitely nice. I would love a little more heatsinking since this light generates some serious heat with so little surface area. But if you look at the over all height of the gopro mount, it really isn't that much lower profile than the standard.

Allow me to barrow Smoke&Laser image here:









I would guess that it's only a couple millimeters lower in the upright position and maybe a little more in the forward position. If I were to mount the standard one all the way forward on to the visor as he did, it too would sit lower than the top of the helmet. I just wanted it a little more secure than double stick tape.

Also, I advise if you're going to helmet mount it, get the 10 degree lenses from LEDDNA. Much better throw! Although be careful, the head of the two front screws strip very easily.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Mine sits lower than that- Smoke used the tall mount for the one that faces backwards and his mount sticks out to the back more.

I'll play with the 10 degree lenses- I have some in stock, but it looks pretty narrow with the optics provided.

It might be possible to stick some heat sink on the top of the light if need be.
20pcs Black Heat Sink FOR Stepstick A4988 Chip IC Thermal Adhesive 8 8 8 8 5mm | eBay


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Using commercial mounts will only get one so far in how low a light can go. The GoPro mount is pretty big and tall, particularly the reverse one in Smoke's last picture. I don't use a GoPro mount on my helmet light for that reason.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Vanc's is the lowest ever. Most of my DIY lights have a custom mount that sits very low,


but I'm spec-ing Gopro mounts for my friends now as they're easy to find and work well on helmet, bars and headbands.

I'll see if I can get a shot of the Gemini clone mounted up.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Ofroad'bent said:


> ...I'm spec-ing Gopro mounts for my friends now as they're easy to find and work well on helmet, bars and headbands.


They are starting to become a de-facto standard it seems.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

GoPro mount- light is same level as helmet.


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

I placed the light to forward as this is the only place that is flat on my lid.
Could have the light low down but the light glare shines right into my eyes.

One solution would to be turn the Go pro clip round slid in from top to bottom.










A week on and still not sorted out new lens make more of a spot.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Some people don't need to worry about whether the light sits high or not. 

In my area, many trails have trees with low branches. When the rainy season sets in those branches often droop lower and become light catchers. I caught my old NR halogen light on a branch many years ago and have worked for low mounting ever since.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I removed the bar mount and undid the little allen screws, but still couldn't get the back cap off. Not sure if it's a very tight fit or glued shut, but it'll be hard to open without gouging something.
> 
> A heads-up- when you remove the bar mount you can see that this unit is *not* waterproof at all. The cable exits a hole in the mount with no cable gland or seal. I will be replacing it with a metal GoPro adapter, and placing silicone gasket-maker sealant in the gap.


Note- if you're not logged in, you'll see links to "bar mount" and "GoPro adapter" which are fake and automatically added somehow.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

CRAP

original 'good' yinding with the 4-banger 8volt pack. 

the nylon strap busted clean off today with not much effort. figured as much. 
oh well...I got tons of straps from other finds...I never expect a chinese nylon pouch for any product last more than a few uses without fraying or ripping


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^try these...
Www.backcountryresearch.com

Tube Tourniquet. Bulletproof way to hold a battery pouch on the top tube. I cut off the strap on the nylon pouch and use these.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

thanks^^^ 

done. got a 3 pack with fancy patterns. paypal. now where is me straps? !


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

Sorry to revive this thread, but very interested in this light. The Wallbuys is out of stock, so looking at the Lightmalls one. It looks like the Wallbuys one has 60 degree lenses stock and not sure about the Lightmalls one. 

I am looking for a great set up for helmet and bar. Would it make sense to buy 2 of these lights and get 2 10 degree lenses for the helmet and 2 60 degree lenses for the bars to make a perfect set up and be cost effective? Also looking at a SSX2 for the helmet if that would give better throw and spot. Obviously want as much flood as possible on the bars. So many choices, but I love the size and look of this light. 

If that works, I would probably use stock batteries for now and then upgrade down the road. Or, I guess I could buy the light only for $14 less and buy a better battery set up for starters for close to the same price? Thanks for any input.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about the lenses. 

Buy two of the Lightmalls units with 6-cell batteries - you'll have spare/redundancy. I run one each on handlebar and helmet for off road riding. Just one on the handlebar for road.

Start with the included batteries, upgrade later if you find you need to. My .02.


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

I had a look about for another one seems they gone up alot.

They still on DX but did take time to get to me three months. Could be just unlucky.

Some on Ali Express I think the site is but I never used them before.

I don't see the Yinding on lightmail! Not found by search.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

LM has a yinding clone I think, as well as KD (KD has actually 3 color versions)


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

The 60 degree is in a typo; they look to be the same as the Duo...16 degrees.


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

So would the stock be better for the helmet and then put 2 60 degree lenses in the other one for the bar for better flood?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

The stock light works fine as a bar light. I tried the 45 degree lenses from LEDDNA and didn't notice much difference to be honest.


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

Thanks TiGeo. I saw on a thread I believe you have the SSX2 on your helmet. Would that be a better combination? I love the size of these lights, but also want to have the best (inexpensive) combo I can find. Maybe there should be a Best Clone set up under $100 thread! Would be fun to see the different combinations people are using on their bar and helmet.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes, I have a SSX2 for the helmet in my budg-o setup. It is a nice spot for the helmet and works well with the Yinding on the bar. The issue I had with this setup is that the color of the LEDs is different; the SSX2 is bluer/whiter than the Yinding which is more "warm". I think the Yindings out now are not the same LED and will look more like the SSX2.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> The 60 degree is in a typo; they look to be the same as the Duo...16 degrees.


Just wondering; Since you own both the Gemini Duo and the Yinding, is there a noticeable difference between the two ? ( other than price of course )


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

TiGeo said:


> Yes, I have a SSX2 for the helmet in my budg-o setup. It is a nice spot for the helmet and works well with the Yinding on the bar. The issue I had with this setup is that the color of the LEDs is different; the SSX2 is bluer/whiter than the Yinding which is more "warm". I think the Yindings out now are not the same LED and will look more like the SSX2.


Sounds good. I like the form factor of the Yinding better, was hoping with spot lenses on the helmet and floods on the bars, it would be a great set up. So if I get the SSX2 on helmet and Yinding on the bars, as long as both have the XM-L2's, everything should match ok? Sounds like the SSX2 will be a better spot on the helmet. If it is negligible, I would go with 2 Yindings.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> Just wondering; Since you own both the Gemini Duo and the Yinding, is there a noticeable difference between the two ? ( other than price of course )


Not really that I can tell Cat except for the color. Keep in mind I have the "good" version of the Yinding.


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> Not really that I can tell Cat except for the color. Keep in mind I have the "good" version of the Yinding.


Does the Gemini have custom power setting guess only come into play realy when racing?

I did had a look again at Gloworm again but sadly it's cost to much.

I have to look again Gemini vs Gloworm vs Yinding.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes..custom power settings...not sure why that is only for racing...


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

WHOA! This just in - KD is now carrying a head only Duo clone! (I don't think this has been mentioned and I do believe KD just added it within 24 hours.) I'm jumping on it as I've been sitting on placing a KD order for some parts anyway.

-Garry


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

But this isn't the "good" version..just so you know. May not have a good seal on the cable, maybe no o-ring, and likely a crappier mount.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Right, I see that. I'm willing to work with it. I consider all these cheap lights "mod hosts". I am loosing track of which ones were good or bad. I was waffling on the Lightmalls clone (due to the programmable driver) but remember someone posted it wasn't good for some reason.

I don't think there even is a "good" version available any more, is there?

EDIT - I see that mk96 mentioned KD having a duo clone in post 683, though I don't remember anyone posting a link.

-Garry


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

dawgman25 - I wouldn't use two 60 degree lenses as they spread the light too much. I ran a 60 and 45 and it didn't have enough throw. I replaced the 60 with a 10 and now it has a nice mix of flood up close and throw down the trail. I run a 'good' Yinding on my helmet with the 15-20 (nobody knows for sure) lens and it makes a good pairing with the bar light. I also replaced the LED's to match the warmer tint of the good version as it is quite annoying having different colored lights.


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

Thanks, that helps a lot. So if I get a SSX2 for the helmet, I want to get the newer version XM-L2 and get a Yinding clone with the same so the colors are correct? Can't decide if I want 2 Yinding clones with different lenses or an SSX2 on the helmet for more throw. It seems the XM-L2 is the best LED to get right now?

My long term goal is to get a great Gloworm set up, but I want to get a good cheap set up for now to make sure I use them enough to justify the bigger expense. Then I can use the cheap version for friends, backup, etc.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

robs31 said:


> dawgman25 - I wouldn't use two 60 degree lenses as they spread the light too much. I ran a 60 and 45 and it didn't have enough throw. I replaced the 60 with a 10 and now it has a nice mix of flood up close and throw down the trail. I run a 'good' Yinding on my helmet with the 15-20 (nobody knows for sure) lens and it makes a good pairing with the bar light. I also replaced the LED's to match the warmer tint of the good version as it is quite annoying having different colored lights.


Definately agree on the colors..annoying.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

robs31 said:


> dawgman25 - I wouldn't use two 60 degree lenses as they spread the light too much. I ran a 60 and 45 and it didn't have enough throw. I replaced the 60 with a 10 and now it has a nice mix of flood up close and throw down the trail. I run a 'good' Yinding on my helmet with the 15-20 (nobody knows for sure) lens and it makes a good pairing with the bar light. I also replaced the LED's to match the warmer tint of the good version as it is quite annoying having different colored lights.


Especially don't use the frosted 45s or 60s, they knock the light down to nothing. Currently using two clear 45s on the bar Yinding and two 10/15s on the helmet Yinding, nice combo. Bought both at the same time and got 2 good ones in the warmer tint.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I have the 45s and they work well on the bar but I use the stockers as my Yinding is now my road bike light and I need the throw.


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

That sounds like a great set up. Would probably be better to have 2 Yindings with matching lights instead of an SSX2 on the helmet that doesn't match. I am hoping the helmet with the spot lenses have enough throw.

I wish the good units would come back. Still looking at the head only units on Lightmall and then get 2 good hulk lee batteries to match.

May I ask where you got your lenses?

2xCree XM-L2 2500-Lumen With 2 group modes LED Bicycle Light Lamp(Lamp cap only) - 2LED Bike Light - LED Bicycle Lights - Bike Lights & Headlamps Worldwide Free Shipping!!!


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Leddna


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

If you want to see a comparison of the LEDDNA optics, check out my post over at BLF. 

-Garry


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

Great test and info, thanks. So it looks like 2 45 degree lenses and 2 10 degree lenses would be the best combo?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

That would work fine..or just keep the originals in, try them out and see if they work fine as-is.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Yeah, the stock lense are actually good at least for a helmet light on the trail or as a road light. The stock lense combo of one on the bars and helmet stock lense isn't that bad either as it's really a lot of light, just for some trails the 45 flood looks a bit better close in to me. YMMV


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Agree.


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

As for the color, you never really know what you will get even if they claim a specific tint. This happened to me when I bought my second Yinding and it was advertised as the same tint as my original but was not so I had to replace them. To get the same color your best bet is to by two of the same one from the same seller at the same time, but that will not guarantee they will be the same. It's always a crap shoot from China.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Don't condemn all of China just because these small fly by night operations don't know the meaning of quality control. Gemini, Magicshine, Xeccon and a hand full of others are making a name for themselves producing quality, consistent product. They're in it for the long haul, not quick profit. 
When your tired of wasting your time and money on this stuff spend a little more on something you can trust with a real warranty and spend the extra time riding your bike.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^yep.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I've been riding my Yinding for about 8 rides now. I am thoroughly unimpressed with them. I bought them through FastTech and they arrived back in mid-August.

1.) Battery sucks. I get about 90 min. runtime on full, with a fan on the light head. I don't use the battery at all. I use my good Samsung 5200 pack from Gemini instead. A fully charge pack turns the button "RED" within 15 minutes on high.

2.) Total light output sucks. My Solarstorm X2 with XM-L (not U2) version (one of the "good X2's) easily out powers it, not only because of its hotter and tigher spot, but overall output is a lot lot lot brighter. I am guessing maybe 20-25% brighter? But that's just guessing. My friend's old NightRider HID with claimed 600 lumens output is about the same total light out put (but spotier) than my Yinding with both XM-L U2's on on high. This is using the Samsung 5200 Gemini pack. My Gemini Titan with a single SSC P7 is only marginally dimmer than the Yinding.

3.) Mount totally sucks. The light spins on the mount. And I don't want to tighten it too much risking stripping the soft aluminum. The mount did not come with a rubber o-ring/pad between mount and light head to prevent spinning.

I'm over-the-moon happy with my solarstorm X2 and have recommended it to about 6 other of my riding buddies, all of which are very happy.

I wanted to try the Yinding due to good reviews, small size and tying to differentiate from my buddies now that they all got SS X2's. 

Anyone have any tips/tricks to get more output out of these Yinding's?


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## Belse (Apr 16, 2013)

neons97;11476450Anyone have any tips/tricks to get more output out of these Yinding's?[/QUOTE said:


> Wich Yinding do you have, one from the first good batch, or one from the second crappier batch?


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

Battery - Buy another battery I read here FF ones not great to DX. 
Mount - Try a smaller O ring did you get two? Or in this thread there a easy mod for gopro mount. No more slip.

Edit - you didn't get O ring mount with light!


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Smoke&Lasers said:


> Battery - Buy another battery I read here FF ones not great to DX.
> Mount - Try a smaller O ring did you get two? Or in this thread there a easy mod for gopro mount. No more slip.
> 
> Edit - you didn't get O ring mount with light!


I don't think you read my post thoroughly. I am already using my Gemini pack which uses Samsung 2600 cells in 2s2p for 5200mah. So even with the good battery, output is horrible.

And the mount issue isn't the bar mount itself. It is that the light head spins on the actual mount as it didn't come with any rubber o-ring/spacer and there is no groove or anything milled out to stop the light head from doing on the mount other than brute force of torquing down the screw into soft aluminum.

I would be fine with the bad battery and modifying the mount if this light had even remotely decent light output. The poor output is my single complaint and I'm looking for a way to increase its output beyond about 600 lumens (as I saidy old single Gemini Titan with an ssc p7 is about as bright as this dual xm-l U2 light which means something isn't right on this light that I revieved). Once I can do that I have no problem investing time and money into a better mount and battery. But until that happens it's not worth spending anymore time or money on this light


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Your Chinese cheap-o light roulette wheel didn't land on a good slot it appears.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

TiGeo said:


> Your Chinese cheap-o light roulette wheel didn't land on a good slot it appears.


Nope. You're right. And I'm fine with that. My ssx2 has exceeded all expectations (I have one of the earlier good versions). And my 6 friends all with varying good and bad versions of ssx2 have no issue with overall light output.

So I'm just trying to see if there is anything I can do to the electrons to get more output.


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

Got my lens from Leddna today fast delivery from China to UK.
:thumbsup:


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## gulliverbg (Sep 24, 2014)

It took some time to go through all the posts, been interesting though. Unfortunately I read it all after I made my order of UltraFire LZZ-U3. Anyway I'm still happy with it. You may find my review on it here. Choosing it, I should say I was focused on having a light with XM-L2 U3 bins ... obviously this is not the case.
Now as you mention it everywhere, I also have to check the sealing and the cooling but I can't find how to disassemble it. As you may notice on this model there are no (visible) screws. Please anyone with the same light body build to share how can I open it?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Seems you can't trust what LED you will get with these and that is one of the big downsides of going this route.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

gulliverbg said:


> Now as you mention it everywhere, I also have to check the sealing and the cooling but I can't find how to disassemble it. As you may notice on this model there are no (visible) screws. Please anyone with the same light body build to share how can I open it?


I think I remember reading that you have to unscrew the bottom handlebar mount to access screws which hold the back on and then the innards come through the back (or perhaps there are screws inside which release the front - I never did understand how this exactly came apart). I have the same/similar light coming from Kaidomain (KD branded), so thanks for your review in the other thread! I do expect it to need attention to heatsinking.

-Garry


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## gulliverbg (Sep 24, 2014)

garrybunk said:


> I think I remember reading that ...


I will give it a try and share the outcome in the coming days. I hope I will not burn it up going for a ride before that 

Edit: No visible screws at the front or back side. The only screw I found was under the soft sticker on the mount which did not help me open it. I also tried to open the back side with a thin blade which also didn't work.
Please anyone who has done it to help!


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## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

Fitted new lens 45° The beam nice and tight with feather edge. 
Looks brighter too 

Vancbiker must be my imagination


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Interesting, usually a dimpled face really diffuses the light.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

I want to get another Duo Clone, but I want an actual original Yinding YD-2XU2, NOT a clone of the clone.
From other posts, it seems as though some suppliers have the Yinding listed, but are shipping a clone of it. WallBuys was one of the suppliers mentioned.

Does anyone know if DX or Fasttech, or anywhere for that matter, are still selling/shipping the orginals?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I am thinking they are all gone based on these threads.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

fightnut said:


> I want to get another Duo Clone, but I want an actual original Yinding YD-2XU2, NOT a clone of the clone.


The clone of clones are generally easy enough to spot (not through a web-link). The real problem is that the original's themselves are of significantly lower quality than the very first batches. The "good" original's are all gone. The "bad" original's are around on FT/DX as are their clones. Generally, anything on eBay or Amazon is a clone of a clone.

I bought a Yinding YD-2xU2 from FastTech in September. From everything I've researched, I believe the lighthead is an original Yinding, but one of the "bad" original's with lower quality soldering, lower quality bar mount and the cheaper battery connector. The battery also sucks at <2,000mah.

Given that the "bad" original's have come down in quality significantly, the clone of a clone may not be that far off in quality from a "bad" original.

Don't forget...we're talking about $30-$50 (shipped) lightsets here. We all need to set our expectations correctly. We cannot expect these to perform and be durable like a Lupine, L&M, Niterider, etc. Consider them disposable lights and you'll be very satisfied with yours when they last more than 2 seasons.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Anyone see this? Action is now offering a 60-deg wide-angle for the Duo.

Action-LED-Lights ? Wide Angle Lens for Gemini Duo


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Is the securitying version the same as the yinding ??


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You spot it on Amazon? I saw it there. Looks identical to the KD version by the photos (which is not an original Yinding). I too wondered if the Amazon one was any good. At least Amazon is a better place to "chance" than a Chinese shop. 

-Garry


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> You spot it on Amazon? I saw it there. Looks identical to the KD version by the photos (which is not an original Yinding). I too wondered if the Amazon one was any good. At least Amazon is a better place to "chance" than a Chinese shop.. Garry


Is this the cloneOFclone?
SecurityIng® 4 Modes Waterproof 2300LM 2X CREE XM-L U2 LED


or is this it with the hood? Hood could be nice for SS...

SecurityIng® 4 Modes Waterproof 2X CREE XM-L2


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The first one is the one. That second one is a rebadged UniqueFire HD-016 with seperate flood and throw (a nice unit). 

-Garry


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

TiGeo said:


> Anyone see this? Action is now offering a 60-deg wide-angle for the Duo.
> 
> Action-LED-Lights ? Wide Angle Lens for Gemini Duo


Wonder if those drop right in with no fuss.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> Anyone see this? Action is now offering a 60-deg wide-angle for the Duo.
> 
> Action-LED-Lights ? Wide Angle Lens for Gemini Duo


Just installed on my bar light, works very well. I have a Gemini Duo 2013 on the bar (1300 lumen) and a 2014 on the helmet (1500 lumen). Now one of the lenses on the bar is the 60-deg flood. I like the result quite a lot, it adds a nice amount of peripheral lighting and makes for a very nice light spread. It can actually be used alone at moderate speed. With the spot Helmet light it works great. Great combo :thumbsup:

I tried with two 60-deg flood but it dampens the light too much.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Good to hear some feedback on these optics. I just made a order with Action that included a couple of these for my Duo. Ironically I got the Duo to use as a helmet light and was disapointed Gemini never made a spot optic for it. Now it looks like it will end up as a floody bar light.
Mole


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Good to hear some feedback on these optics. I just made a order with Action that included a couple of these for my Duo. Ironically I got the Duo to use as a helmet light and was disapointed Gemini never made a spot optic for it. Now it looks like it will end up as a floody bar light.
> Mole


In praise of a flood light: tonight I got caught in some very heavy coastal fog. Could not really see much. Turned off my headlight and bingo! The bar flood was plenty! Very nice. Another + for Gemini Duo bar (flood) and helmet (spot).

Somebody asked: the 60-wide lens just pop in without any fuss. Installation takes 5' at most.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Posted about my KD Duo/Yinding clone over in the Yinding review thread, post #201.

-Garry


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