# Ask your stoker...



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Off-season pondering here...

Can your stoker feel the bumps from the front wheel so that they know to lighten up on their seat so as to avoid a direct hit from the rear wheel?

I often still call out the big bumps because I know when she's seated, but I'm thinking it may not be necessary; she already saw my arms and shoulders bounce. But maybe at certain speeds - like not fast enough to require sitting lightly, but fast enough that the rear tire hits the obstacle as fast as the stoker can react to the front wheel to lighten their seat - there is not enough warning for the stoker? Maybe I'm just unnecessarily courteous. 
(that can't be true... for many reasons)

Also, we are in the habit of me calling out the next move (left, right, coast, slowing, spinning, stomping) so she can throw her weight in anticipation. Do most teams have the stoker always following instead?

I am just thinking we have to improve our skills, but I also think we still do pretty well. We don't see too many teams to test our ability against, but we don't walk much, and there are singles that stay behind us.

Just wondered how other teams do it.

-F

PS - thanks for not preaching the benefits of the latest suspension seatpost - that's not the point.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Good question. My wife is focused on the trail, too -- not me and what my body and arms are doing in reaction to bumps. She insists that I call out whatever I deem appropriate (and she tells me if I'm wrong). 

So I call significant (open ended description) bumps and depressions, as well as cadence changes and gear shifts, as well as substantial course changes. She calls out when we're going to fast, but also has her own brake lever. We've got most everything down to one word grunts and such...

PPS suspension seatposts are great, but AFAIC mainly good for neutralizing trail chatter. The long travel Thudbuster will launch a rider into low earth orbit if they get lazy and begin taking hard impacts with it.

PPPS I'm speaking, of course, for myself, and don't ride with other tandem teams, so I'd love to hear responses from experienced tandemers.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

My stoker says sometimes she can sense the bump, but admitted that maybe if she focused more it would be more than sometimes.

From the front, my opinion is she is good for detecting at least 3/4 of the bumps on her own. However, on most trails and especially unfamiliar trails, there is a lot of communication. From the front I try and advise her of upcoming features or if power is needed or needs to be lessened. In technical trails I constantly ask her to call clear when we are safely past a tree and I can set another corner.

I do know that if she decides the ride is casual and talks about anything else except the trail, she is definitely not focused.

My stoker is on thudbusters and butterfly saddles, Not sure about the low orbit, without being clipped in, she may become a projectile bound for the moon.

PK

With her reading over my shoulder, she says with warnings from the front, we have better control and ride more fluid. She got her job review today and used the term, I exceed her expectations when she knows whats coming up.

PK again for JK


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

I call out a lot less than I used to, after Kim told me it wasn't necessary to call every little bump. I think she said something on the order of "shut up and pedal".
She is very perceptive as far as keying off my actions, and seems to be able to subconsciously react to stuff. Much more so than any other stoker I've ridden with (mostly our kids).
However, virtually all of our riding time lately is on the same local trails and she knows the trail very well.
I have never called shifts or changes in cadence unless it's a sudden stop in pedaling before a log or other obstacle. Kim seems to be able to sense through the cranks what's required most of the time. 
That being said, like anything else requiring coordination and practice, we do much better on the rides on consecutive days. 
However, I once made the mistake of not calling out decent sized bumps (4" or more, higher speed) which caused her to recieve an unexpected jolt or two. After some corrective direction from her, I don't do that any more...


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## Team Fubar Rider (Sep 3, 2003)

I think the _call-out_ is all relative. When my wife and I were riding the tandem a lot, esp. on familiar trails, I needed to call out less and less. At the beginning of the season I had to call out more than I had to at the end of the season.

Now our tandem is set up for my seven year old son (who has completely usurped the stoker position from my wife). I have to call-out things a lot more for him, since he can't see over me and he is also learning how to "feel" the trail.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

So I finally got around to reading this to my lovely stoker. 

She says that she does not get any indications based on my front wheel or shoulders.

I DO call out significant bumps and obstacles and get notified when I don't. :nono: I also call out shifts under load, but not when soft pedalling.

I'm also just told that she can see the upcoming obstacles when we are decending and she's out of the saddle.

By the way, she also wanted me to add that FULL SUSPENSION is just way better than the thudbuster...:thumbsup:


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## clj2289 (Jan 2, 2010)

*hardtails are good *

My wife and I just started riding tandem about 6 or so months ago. We ride alot however, 2+ times a week. So we might be in about the same position as your team. When we started riding I tried to call out every bump in the trail. Now I try to be very concise with my communication and only call out the most import and relevant stuff. I do not call shifts, unless its the front chain rings. I do not call every turn, but I will call if want her to lean hard into the turn. I will call every log and most dips. I also try to tell her what is going on with the trail in general, example would be climbs that are coming up, downhills, etc... I always warn if we are about to pass someone coming in the opposite direction, if not it will startle her. I always call out for low lying branches that might ricochet off me and hit her. I have a feeling that she will not be able to take a cue from the fork or your should and react fast enough to avoid the bump...

We are riding a hardtail as well, so I have started to tell her where I think she should stand. I will coast for the big bumps and say "spin" and wait for her to start spinning the pedals. I think teams that ride full suspension do not need to communicate as much, but it seems like both the captain and stoker are more engaged if they are talking.

BTW, I do think it helps to also ride on road. We started with a mountain bike, but the road bike give us an opportunity to ride during the week when we do not have much time, which is helpful to get extra riding in.

Here are a couple pieces of our off road vocab, not sure that it is transferable or not...

BRACE! - translation: a log is coming. The louder I yell, the bigger the log.
ratchet - translation: I want control of the pedals so I can get over the log or if we are waiting for a stop light to keep us moving just enough to not fall over
hard (left|right) lean - translation: We are going to fast to just steer around this tree, if you do not lean, we're going into it 
wide (right|left) sweeping turn - long wide turn coming
(right|left) ankle - some debris is about to hit your lower extremities
(right|left) shoulder - some debris is about to hit your torso
heads down - debris on the left and right, put your head down and block it with your helmet
BAIL - get off while you still can!

Cheers,
Chris


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## tommignon (Jan 27, 2010)

I like the BAIL.

I think if I yelled Bail I would be killed. I'm having a hard time typing I'm laughing at the thought of just yelling Bail and jumping off the bike. She would kill me if she survived.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

My stoker has recently learned a new term from the front seat.

"no you're not"

We have been riding more technical and newer trails the last few times out on the mountain tandem. Some of the trails have sections that are tough on a single. 

One section at Quiet Waters has a 180° descending tight left turn. If you miss the line or run wide you go swimming or crash on the rocks.

We approached the section, I told her to sit back and expect a left turn. As I began to drop in to the decent, she saw what was coming and yelled "I'm getting off". With a release of the brakes, I said no you're not.

The best part was she had unclipped her inside foot, this placed 100% of her weight on the outside rear pedal, making the tires grip and carve the turn.

While she wasn't exactly happy, she was excited about riding that section and has ridden it many times since.

I did have to explain to her that if she got off, I had already committed and would have had no rear brakes. My guess is it would not have been pretty.

PK


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