# Vintage bike sizing



## commuter73 (May 31, 2006)

Like a lot of the vintage mountain bike fans, I'm interested in finding an old fillet brazed Ritchey. Ideally, I'd like a Ritchey Commando. Problem is, sizing seems to have changed over the years. I'm not exactly sure what I should be looking for. 

Is it me, or were mountain bikes bigger back in the (pre sloping top-tube) day? I'm 5' 7 1/2" and ride a medium Bontrager Race Lite, a 52c Bridgestone XO-1 and a 54c road bike (old Bianchi fixed conversion). All of these fit me fine. Especially if I'm considering buying a used bike online, what size(s) should I be looking at?


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

commuter73 said:


> Like a lot of the vintage mountain bike fans, I'm interested in finding an old fillet brazed Ritchey. Ideally, I'd like a Ritchey Commando. Problem is, sizing seems to have changed over the years. I'm not exactly sure what I should be looking for.


Straight from the source:
https://www.oldmountainbikes.com/catalogs/mountainbikes/1983/MountainBikes1983_15.jpg


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

P.S. "K & F Bikes" is Kelly and Fisher (i.e. Ritchey made bikes).


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## commuter73 (May 31, 2006)

Thanks, 19" or 20" it is. Now, anyone got one?


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## WorldWind (Oct 31, 2006)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ritchey-Command...083QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270052159420


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

Now That's Funny

As is the Ibis


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Shayne said:


> Now That's Funny
> 
> As is the Ibis


Odds on a sale are not good.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*I Was Interested...*

In that Ibis too! That is until I finished waking up and realized where the decimal point was :eekster:


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Yeah, two very optomistic prices.


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## WorldWind (Oct 31, 2006)

If I might ask… 
Are you wanting a bike to collect or to ride? The reason you are seeking a Commando, is it because you want the relaxed geometry, all the extra brazeons and the roller-cam mounts? 
Would a TR fillet frame with race geometry, canty bosses and no brazons sute your needs?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

WorldWind said:


> If I might ask&#8230;
> Are you wanting a bike to collect or to ride? The reason you are seeking a Comando, is it because you want the relaxed geometry, all the extra brazeons and the roller-cam mounts?
> Would a TR fillet frame with race geometry, canty bosses and no brazons sute your needs?


It'd suit mine.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

inseam less 4 in= frame size + very long stems.
135mm is a medium length stem in vintage sizing world.


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## WorldWind (Oct 31, 2006)

I am very new to this forum, but not so new to mtn biking. So if you all have already discussed this to death, please forgive me.

I am a big fan of analogues, it’s just my way of being direct while not wanting to be rude. 

If I had a cello (big fiddle) that was sought after by Bill Gates I would either refuse to sell or ask more than it was worth, depending on how he asked and why he wanted it.
If I had a cello that was sought after by Yo Yo Ma, I would be honored to give it to him.


Secondly

Fitting a bike to a guy, is different than fitting a state of the art fillet frame to a rider. 
I would conceder the top tube length and stem in reference to the riders upper torso and riding style. 

Most people feel that I come off like a self-centered ass most of the time, but I think it’s just that my perspective is very different than most peoples.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

WorldWind said:


> If I had a cello (big fiddle) that was sought after by Bill Gates I would either refuse to sell or ask more than it was worth, depending on how he asked and why he wanted it.
> If I had a cello that was sought after by Yo Yo Ma, I would be honored to give it to him.


What I hear you saying is that you would be honored to give me a bike. 

While you are correct in how bikes should be sized, when talking about a 20+ year old bike, of which only a handful were made, often people are willing to compromise and ride a frame that might not be perfect for them. Most of us likely do not put a huge number of miles on any one ultra collectable/vintage frame, so a range of sizes would work for the intended purpose.

I have several old bikes, and one of my requirements to own it is that I can fit on it and ride it. I don't see a lot of need to own a bike that is way too big or way too small for me.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

WorldWind said:


> The reason you are seeking a Commando, is it because you want the relaxed geometry, all the extra brazeons and the roller-cam mounts?


Braze-ons are very cool in combination with the slack geometry. It allow you to do this...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

colker1 said:


> inseam less 4 in= frame size + very long stems.
> 135mm is a medium length stem in vintage sizing world.


That's how you fit vintage frames?
Inseam less 4" inches doesn't seem right.

I'm a 32" inseam...but no way do I ride a 28" vintage bike. More like 21-22" depending on the vintage. If you're talking top tube...still in the 22-23" range with a normal (for the time) 135-145mm stem.

Or are you saying that inseam less 4" is top tube length plus stem length? Still seems lengthy.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

WorldWind said:


> If I had a cello (big fiddle) that was sought after by Bill Gates I would either refuse to sell or ask more than it was worth, depending on how he asked and why he wanted it.
> If I had a cello that was sought after by Yo Yo Ma, I would be honored to give it to him.


Wait...I got lost at the cello part.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> That's how you fit vintage frames?
> Inseam less 4" inches doesn't seem right.
> 
> I'm a 32" inseam...but no way do I ride a 28" vintage bike. More like 21-22" depending on the vintage. If you're talking top tube...still in the 22-23" range with a normal (for the time) 135-145mm stem.
> ...


LOL!! what was i thinking.. 32 less 14. i am 32" inseam and i "feel" 18" frames are right... but only if i don't have susp. up front. then a 17in is correct. top tube being 22.6 i ride a 135mm. slightly less i make do or increase some ml on the stem. never had top tube longer than 22.75. i am 5.9 tall.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

WorldWind said:


> I am very new to this forum, but not so new to mtn biking. So if you all have already discussed this to death, please forgive me.
> 
> I am a big fan of analogues, it's just my way of being direct while not wanting to be rude.
> 
> ...


So, how in the blazes do you fit a chello under yer chin? Does the 4" rule apply here too?


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

colker1 said:


> LOL!! what was i thinking.. 32 less 14. i am 32" inseam and i "feel" 18" frames are right... but only if i don't have susp. up front. then a 17in is correct. top tube being 22.6 i ride a 135mm. slightly less i make do or increase some ml on the stem. never had top tube longer than 22.75. i am 5.9 tall.


Hey, that works out pretty good - 37" - 14" = 23" frame size. Works for me!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Braze-ons are very cool in combination with the slack geometry. It allow you to do this...


i never had a white bike. never... isn't this sad?


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> What I hear you saying is that you would be honored to give me a bike.
> 
> .


hey! i want one too!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

colker1 said:


> LOL!! what was i thinking.. 32 less 14. i am 32" inseam and i "feel" 18" frames are right... but only if i don't have susp. up front. then a 17in is correct. top tube being 22.6 i ride a 135mm. slightly less i make do or increase some ml on the stem. never had top tube longer than 22.75. i am 5.9 tall.


Haha! Ok, now I'm with ya!


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## commuter73 (May 31, 2006)

WorldWind said:


> If I might ask&#8230;
> Are you wanting a bike to collect or to ride? The reason you are seeking a Commando, is it because you want the relaxed geometry, all the extra brazeons and the roller-cam mounts?
> Would a TR fillet frame with race geometry, canty bosses and no brazons sute your needs?


Thanks for the response. Truth be told, I'm seeking a Commando because I want relaxed geometry and the extra braze-ons...and I just happen to have a crush on the paintjob.

Even though I'd probably be wrecking some of the "antique" value of it, I'd put drop bars and racks on and use it as a touring bike. I don't work during the summer so I usually get to go one one or two extended trips every year. I call my buddies who make double and triple my salary from various points on my adventures all the time. I love my job.

By the way, here's a promising link for you old Ritchey fans. It's too big for me but one of you guys may enjoy it. http://detroit.craigslist.org/bik/214615038.html


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

colker1 said:


> hey! i want one too!


I think the implication is that unless you have a lot of cash to offer...you better be somebody important...or don't bother asking.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> I think the implication is that unless you have a lot of cash to offer...you better be somebody important...or don't bother asking.


ahhhhnnnn..


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

commuter73 said:


> Even though I'd probably be wrecking some of the "antique" value of it, I'd put drop bars and racks on and use it as a touring bike. I don't work in the summer so I usually get to go one one or two extended trips every year.


You won't find any objections here to putting a set of drops on any bike - or racks or using it for touring or ... :thumbsup:


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## commuter73 (May 31, 2006)

WorldWind said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/Ritchey-Command...083QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270052159420


Wow...not that one. That's outrageous!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

ssmike said:


> You won't find any objections here to putting a set of drops on any bike - or racks or using it for touring or ... :thumbsup:


i found drops and slack head angles a bad mix.. but that's my taste.


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## WorldWind (Oct 31, 2006)

Rumpfy said:


> I think the implication is that unless you have a lot of cash to offer...you better be somebody important...or don't bother asking.


No, not someone important&#8230; someone more deserving or worthy than me, to own it.

When I was 14 I started hanging out at the LBS, cleaning up, running errands for the owner and learning the proper way to use the tools. I saved every penny for two summers of mowing lawns for a nice road bike. The pro that worked at that shop took a liking to me over time and when I was 16 he sold me the bike he had raced on for the past two seasons for exactly the amount that I had saved.

Just before I went to the Nam I sold that Colnago to a local junior racer that had the potential to really shine if he could only get on a decent bike. By then I knew I would never go pro and he deserved that bike more that I did, so he got it for 50 bucks.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

WorldWind said:


> No, not someone important&#8230; someone more deserving or worthy than me, to own it.


Copy that.


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## WorldWind (Oct 31, 2006)

commuter73 said:


> Thanks for the response. Truth be told, I'm seeking a Commando because I want relaxed geometry and the extra braze-ons...and I just happen to have a crush on the paintjob.
> 
> Even though I'd probably be wrecking some of the "antique" value of it, I'd put drop bars and racks on and use it as a touring bike. I don't work during the summer so I usually get to go one one or two extended trips every year. I call my buddies who make double and triple my salary from various points on my adventures all the time. I love my job.
> 
> <snip>


Yours was the best possible answer. I will make some calls this week end, and see if any of my contacts know of something that might be available.


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## WorldWind (Oct 31, 2006)

laffeaux said:


> What I hear you saying is that you would be honored to give me a bike.


:thumbsup: I have a great Sledge Hammer for you, it has only been off a few sweet jumps.


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## commuter73 (May 31, 2006)

Thanks very much. I really appreciate you looking around for me! Shoot me a private message if you'd like some contact info. 

By the way, has anyone seen pics of Worldwind's Ritchey? I just checked it out. It's a thing of beauty!


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