# Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

*Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+, 26 x 4.8 & 27.5 x 4.5!*

The Wozo thread doesn't seem to get the love it deserves, perhaps it's because folks don't realize what Kona brought to the table. . .

The 2016 Wozo was a limited run of completes in the USA, but in Canada they had frame sets too 

I took a trip to Langley BC to pick up a couple frames (large and medium), cuz I just couldn't decide on sizing.

On paper the Wozo has a huge reach and ETT, which is typical "new" Kona geo, but what I learned is that the sizing is quite normal taken as a whole: bb drop, steep STA, high stack. I normally ride a large frame and the large Wozo fit perfect.

The Wozo has a lot in common with the Honzo, but tweaked to be fat, so unlike it's long legged fat brethren the Wo, the Wozo sports a 420mm chainstay that fits a 4.8 Minion on a 65mm rim and a 29 x 3 Minion! The sliding chainstays can be lengthened by up to 20mm if you feel the urge.

The HTA is listed as 69deg with a 100mm Bluto, but it rides slacker, so maybe someone needs to re-measure. I plan on bumping my Bluto to 120mm, leaving me with a more moderate 68degrees. Seriously, I think this bike could take an even longer fork.

I had some brief play time on 29+ before winter closed in, then it was game on! Today was the inaugral snow ride cold temps and no grooming kept it short, but suffice to say, short chainstays are da bomb on fat! The Wozo is super agile, very fun to ride, manuals are easy, jumping and hopping about like it's a play bike.

Unfortunately the Wozo is hard to find, but if you can get to Canada (or live there), there are a few frames remaining in the werehouse; I also have a medium left over. Edit, I paid $550 CDN plus taxes, gas, and customs; quite the deal for a sweet aluminum frame, so I'm only asking $500USD plus shipping.

Build details: Large Wozo, 100mm Bluto RTC3, CC headset, Onyx Racing hubs 150/177, Surly LM 26 x 65mm rims/WTB Scraper 29 x i45, 4.8/3" Minions, RF Turbine 170mm with Blackspire 26t oval chainring, RF PFT 30mm bb, GX 11sp drivetrain, Sunrace 11-42 cassette, Guide RS brakes, 180mm rotors, RF 150mm dropper, Chromag Ranger 40mm stem, Chromag bars, WTB Pro seat, Spec ergo grips.

Pics: 1) Echo Ridge, 3) Complete build 26 x 4.8 Minions; 2) and 4) frame clearance with 4.8 on Large Marge 65mm rims; 5) 29 x 3 Minions.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Great liking bike! PM sent! 

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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Needs a wren...


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Nice.

As an aside, you are all over the place with bikes. Need a score card to keep up. Wish you were my ADD neighbor so I could stop over and kick the tires on all the new sleds.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Looks nice! Do you think it would fit a 27.5x4.5 tire in the back? Maybe with the slider back a bit?


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## kwabbott (Mar 13, 2011)

That frame has a lot more clearance than I thought. I was shying away from it thinking that the 177 rear could only handle 4.0s. Also, I thought 29x3.0s didn't work well with a Bluto.

Looks like a great year-round ride the way you have it set up.


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## Haste11 (Jul 5, 2014)

Sweet build man, I'd 100% have this if I didn't love my Wednesday so much! I'm a big Kona fan. My Paddy Wagon is the daily driver when snow isn't flying.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Can't wait! 

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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

How did you like the minions in the snow? Can you compare them to Bud and Lou or other winter tires?


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Kona does make cool bikes! They should have done the Rasta paint job from this one on the Wozo.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bme107 said:


> Nice.
> 
> As an aside, you are all over the place with bikes. Need a score card to keep up. Wish you were my ADD neighbor so I could stop over and kick the tires on all the new sleds.


Who you calling ADD, thats ADHD to those who know me 

I can afford to buy, build, ride, and sell, it's like a hobby...my wife calls it an obsession


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

The stock Wo seems pretty nice, too. KONA BIKES | MTB | WO | Wo


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Cerpss said:


> How did you like the minions in the snow? Can you compare them to Bud and Lou or other winter tires?


No idea, I've ridden Snowshoe, Larry, BFL, Floaters, JJs, and the Minions. The Floaters worked well, JJs weren't sgabby, in comparision I'd say the Minions have a harder rubber so maybe not as compliant in cold conditions.

Only a few snow rides, so it's hard to compare, esp with the super light 6" of dust on firm we have now.

As to 27.5 x 4.5 fit, yeah, probably , but that would make for one tall arse bike!


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## LFJ (Dec 6, 2004)

Nice write up. You confirmed my thoughts on the sizing. Sometimes on paper the numbers don't match but there is no substitute for actually riding the bike to see how it feels. I too am wondering if the frame will accept a 27.5 fat but I am interested if the 27.5x3.8 Hodag would fit.



bikeny said:


> Looks nice! Do you think it would fit a 27.5x4.5 tire in the back? Maybe with the slider back a bit?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

LFJ said:


> Nice write up. You confirmed my thoughts on the sizing. Sometimes on paper the numbers don't match but there is no substitute for actually riding the bike to see how it feels. I too am wondering if the frame will accept a 27.5 fat but I am interested if the 27.5x3.8 Hodag would fit.


Oh yeah, if it fits a 4.8 Minion and 29+.....27.5x3.8 will have nice clearance.

Kona needs to offer this as a frame option in the US for 2018!


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

nitrousjunky said:


> Kona needs to offer this as a frame option in the US for 2018!


In steel.

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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

I know it's still really early on, but have you considered an angleset to slack the HT a degree? 

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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

dustyduke22- I'm guessing here, you pick up his extra frame?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

nitrousjunky said:


> dustyduke22- I'm guessing here, you pick up his extra frame?


Yup. Just in time for Christmas

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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

dustyduke22 said:


> Yup. Just in time for Christmas
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


NICE!!! Will be interested to hear your thoughts as well!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

If only it had a threaded BB...

So close!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

bikeny said:


> If only it had a threaded BB...
> 
> So close!


Just take it to a shop who has one of the new BB threaders. I know King and White have developed a threaded BB to convert a PF to threaded

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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

Following.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

dustyduke22 said:


> I know it's still really early on, but have you considered an angleset to slack the HT a degree?
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


Yup, but I'm gonna try the 120mm fork first and see how much the front end pushes in the snow. I have an Angleset sitting....

As to the press fit bb, yeah, sometimes they creak, but this one doesn't.

So threading the BB? That would make the bb proprietary, kinda scary. There's also pf bb's that thread together, if it works I'd think that would be a safer bet.

Steel? No reason to do so unless you want a heavier bike that rusts.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Who you calling ADD, thats ADHD to those who know me
> 
> I can afford to buy, build, ride, and sell, it's like a hobby...my wife calls it an obsession


I mean, I know some guys that have several bikes some with all of the latest and greatest, but usually it's 1 maybe 2 bikes a year in any one class. You've had what, 3 FB since September? :chuckles: What kind of miles do you put on a bike, don't think I'd even have the fit dialed in before you flipped it.

How did you end up back on Bluto? Just a placeholder that was knocking around in the garage?


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## mdmoore99 (Oct 7, 2007)

Im in !


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Just curious what you ran for tire pressure in the snow. This is my first go at snow riding with my WoZo. Any advice? Thanks!! 


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## LFJ (Dec 6, 2004)

nitrousjunky said:


> Oh yeah, if it fits a 4.8 Minion and 29+.....27.5x3.8 will have nice clearance.
> 
> good point and this bike with the 27.5 x 3.8 hodags would be fun to try.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

dustyduke22 said:


> Just take it to a shop who has one of the new BB threaders. I know King and White have developed a threaded BB to convert a PF to threaded
> 
> Sent from my SPH
> 
> Say what now? I looked up this very issue not that long ago and didn't see a solution. If I could thread my BB shell I'd be set on the Wozo for a long time.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bme107 said:


> I mean, I know some guys that have several bikes some with all of the latest and greatest, but usually it's 1 maybe 2 bikes a year in any one class. You've had what, 3 FB since September? :chuckles: What kind of miles do you put on a bike, don't think I'd even have the fit dialed in before you flipped it.
> 
> How did you end up back on Bluto? Just a placeholder that was knocking around in the garage?


Not three fatties unless you count the Mutz which I sold in late Summer after s year of regular use. The Beargrease was a placeholder until I built a Fatillac, but after riding the Beargrease as an everyday rider I decided it was time for a two bike solution.

The Wozo was a gamble, I wasn't sure it'd fit all my wheels or whether the geo would fit me. Turns out the Wozo is a perfect fit, price was right, swapped parts from the Beargrease and away we go.

I ride a three times a week on average.

The Bluto was cheap, lightweight, functional, and it's also a place holder...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

LFJ said:


> nitrousjunky said:
> 
> 
> > Oh yeah, if it fits a 4.8 Minion and 29+.....27.5x3.8 will have nice clearance.
> ...


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Shinkers said:


> Say what now? I looked up this very issue not that long ago and didn't see a solution. If I could thread my BB shell I'd be set on the Wozo for a long time.


There is a big article on in on Pinkbike and Vital I believe. Looks like a very good alternative.

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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Nurse Ben, how tall are you?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Just for a FYI for anyone who wants to know, the medium Wozo without axle weights 2370 grams. 

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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Ben, thanks for the review! What are the BB and headset specifications? I know the BB is pressfit, but don't know which one. If I buy a frame, I would like to use a RaceFace Aeffect Cinch for 170 (177) rear spacing, which uses a 24mm diameter spindle. I believe the stock Wozo build uses this exact crankset.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

dustyduke22 said:


> Just for a FYI for anyone who wants to know, the medium Wozo without axle weights 2370 grams.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


Not too bad. My 19" Motobecane Sturgis Bullet frame is 2324 grams with seat collar and rear axle.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

OhioPT said:


> Not too bad. My 19" Motobecane Sturgis Bullet frame is 2324 grams with seat collar and rear axle.


Is that the titanium frame?


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Magicscreen said:


> Is that the titanium frame?


No, alloy. It's actually a really nice frame with quality welds, fit/finish, internal cable routing, and the geometry is solid with a 100mm Bluto (it's a bit too slack at 65.5 degrees with a 120 Bluto). Unfortunately, the 19" is a little small for me, which is why I'm looking into the Wozo frame.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Oh, and besides the headset and BB specs, I need to know what rear axle to buy.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

OhioPT said:


> No, alloy. It's actually a really nice frame with quality welds, fit/finish, internal cable routing, and the geometry is solid with a 100mm Bluto (it's a bit too slack at 65.5 degrees with a 120 Bluto). Unfortunately, the 19" is a little small for me, which is why I'm looking into the Wozo frame.


A friend just bought a Moto Lurch, and I've been really impressed with the frame. It's steel and a little heavier, but the basic build is nice, and for $1,000 (delivered) it's a solid entry into the sport.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bikeny said:


> Nurse Ben, how tall are you?


6"/32" inseam, normal torso and reach


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

OhioPT said:


> Oh, and besides the headset and BB specs, I need to know what rear axle to buy.


177 x 12, 1.75 pitch, 205mm length. I no longer have the specifics, but I sent Dusty the part #, maybe he can paste into a reply...

Same with headset, maybe Dusty can post the specs.

BB is pf92.
Seatpost is 31.6

Did you find a frame? I called Caps Cyclery in Langley and Kona Canada has a medium and a large remaining, aftet that it's Spring 2017.

I'm probably not going to Canada for more frames, it's too far.

Maybe a friendly and Canadian would be willing to help with shipping?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> 177 x 12, 1.75 pitch, 205mm length. I no longer have the specifics, but I sent Dusty the part #, maybe he can paste into a reply...
> 
> Same with headset, maybe Dusty can post the specs.
> 
> ...


I will get the part number for you in the AM. Headset is a ZS44/ZS56

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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Axle part number: RS00.4318.009.007 177x12, 1.75 pitch, 20mm thread, 205 length. 

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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Awesome, thank you Ben and dusty Duke! Now to figure out how to get my hands on that axle. A quick Google of that part number comes back empty. Where are you guys buying these?


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

I call Rock Shox/SRAM and they said that is not a part number in their database, and maybe it's "an oem part." I gave him the specs 177 hub, 12x1.75 threads that are 20mm, and 205 length and the only axles he could find were longer (217 and 220 or something)


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Put in the dimensions and add Trek 157x12. 

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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

dustyduke22 said:


> Put in the dimensions and add Trek 157x12.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


Yep, that's the one axle I came up with when I searched the dimensions. So can you confirm that the Trek maxle works on this frame?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

They have it, I talked to RF sales and he said they had #20 units in stock. I ordered it from a dealer who got it from RF using this #:

Rear Skewer SRAM 00.4318.009.007 Maxle Ultimate 12 x 177 OLD 205mm length 1.75mm thread pitch

I have no idea if it's a Trek axle, they have similar dimensions but different part numbers.



OhioPT said:


> I call Rock Shox/SRAM and they said that is not a part number in their database, and maybe it's "an oem part." I gave him the specs 177 hub, 12x1.75 threads that are 20mm, and 205 length and the only axles he could find were longer (217 and 220 or something)


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> They have it, I talked to RF sales and he said they had #20 units in stock. I ordered it from a dealer who got it from RF using this #:
> 
> Rear Skewer SRAM 00.4318.009.007 Maxle Ultimate 12 x 177 OLD 205mm length 1.75mm thread pitch
> 
> I have no idea if it's a Trek axle, they have similar dimensions but different part numbers.


Thank you very much. Maybe a stupid question, but what is "RF" that you are referring to?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

ohiopt said:


> thank you very much. Maybe a stupid question, but what is "rf" that you are referring to?


I meant rs


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Swapped to RF Next SL cranks and changed from an 11-42 to an 11-46 cassette, lighter weight and stumpulling power.

The Wozo is such a pleasure to ride, super agile, poppy, very easy to manual and apply pressure over the rear wheel.

Lots of snow packing/hike a bike stuff right now, hoping to get the base solid...just wish there were more fat bikers here


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> They have it, I talked to RF sales and he said they had #20 units in stock. I ordered it from a dealer who got it from RF using this #:
> 
> Rear Skewer SRAM 00.4318.009.007 Maxle Ultimate 12 x 177 OLD 205mm length 1.75mm thread pitch
> 
> I have no idea if it's a Trek axle, they have similar dimensions but different part numbers.


Ok, this is very frustrating. I e-mailed Universal Cycles asking if they can order me the axle, giving them all the above information with the part number and dimensions, and this is the response I got:
"I am sorry, but we do not carry that particular skewer. Our distributors don't carry it yet. We can't special order for you."

As mentioned a few posts back, I also called the USA SRAM headquarters last week and spoke to the guy in parts, and he said that part number wasn't in their database.

So if a huge dealer like Universal Cycles and SRAM themselves can't find the part, where am I to go? Ben, who exactly did you communicate with? dustyduke, did you ever try the "Trek axle"? I'm assuming it would work if the dimensions are correct, but I don't want to make a $65 mistake.


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## OldHouseMan (Dec 7, 2006)

OhioPT said:


> Ok, this is very frustrating. I e-mailed Universal Cycles asking if they can order me the axle, giving them all the above information with the part number and dimensions, and this is the response I got:
> "I am sorry, but we do not carry that particular skewer. Our distributors don't carry it yet. We can't special order for you."
> 
> As mentioned a few posts back, I also called the USA SRAM headquarters last week and spoke to the guy in parts, and he said that part number wasn't in their database.
> ...


Universal Cycles is worthless if a product is not in stock at their distributors or in their stores. In my experience, they seem unwilling to go outside of their normal channels.

If a product is in stock, they are great to deal with.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

OhioPT said:


> Ok, this is very frustrating. I e-mailed Universal Cycles asking if they can order me the axle, giving them all the above information with the part number and dimensions, and this is the response I got:
> "I am sorry, but we do not carry that particular skewer. Our distributors don't carry it yet. We can't special order for you."
> 
> As mentioned a few posts back, I also called the USA SRAM headquarters last week and spoke to the guy in parts, and he said that part number wasn't in their database.
> ...


We both called Kona directly. I ordered the Trek axle which should get here tomorrow but will likely return it and wait for the one from Kona. The Kona one is a maxle ultimate and the trek one is a maxle light

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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

LFJ said:


> Yup, Hodags or Minions, in a 27.5 x 3.8 would be awesome. I'm holding out for Minions cuz then I'd have a matching set


Got a pile of the B Fat Minion DHF's in...


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

I can conform that the 157x12 Trek axle works on the Wozo.

Also picked up some bolt on cable stays from Paragon to route the stealth dropper.









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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks for follow-up dusty. Are you going to keep that axle, or return it for the Ultimate?


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## kenwood72 (Sep 16, 2014)

dustyduke22 said:


> I can conform that the 157x12 Trek axle works on the Wozo.
> 
> Also picked up some bolt on cable stays from Paragon to route the stealth dropper.
> 
> ...


how does an axle that is 20mm short work???


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

OhioPT said:


> Thanks for follow-up dusty. Are you going to keep that axle, or return it for the Ultimate?


I am waiting to hear back from Matt at Kona on an ETA. If it's a ways off, I will just keep this one. If it's soon, I will just return it and go with the Ultimate.

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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

dustyduke22 said:


> There is a big article on in on Pinkbike and Vital I believe. Looks like a very good alternative.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


My friend Drew at Engin Cycles here in Philly worked with White Industries in developing the new standard. As soon as I get around to replacing the crank and bb on my bucksaw, I'm having him tap it and putting in the new bb


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

kenwood72 said:


> how does an axle that is 20mm short work???


Because Treks rear pivot is at the axle, there is extra material the axle has to go through. Width of the chainstays and seat stays coming together. It wouldn't work in another 157x12 bike, just Treks. So it's really a 177, but the extra 20mm is taken up my Treks frame design

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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

Fwiw Universalcycles carries that Maxle in stock, here is a screen shot from their site.










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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

dustyduke22 said:


> Because Treks rear pivot is at the axle, there is extra material the axle has to go through. Width of the chainstays and seat stays coming together. It wouldn't work in another 157x12 bike, just Treks. So it's really a 177, but the extra 20mm is taken up my Treks frame design
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


Yep. I have an old Trek ABP 135QR skewer that (surprisingly) works great for a 170QR fat bike frame.


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Hi Ben, that is a sweet bike you built up! How much does yours weigh? I just put some minions on with a reverb and mine hits 34lbs. A little more beastly than I am used to !!!


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

I've never seen (or at least noticed...) a frame that runs the axle through the hanger like that. Is that common with fat bikes?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It's around 34# with 4.8 Minions, RF 150 dropper, Onyx hubs, Bluto.

About the only weight savings I have are in the RF Next SL cranks.

I could lose 2# by going to JJs, another 1/2# with DT Swiss Big Ride hubs, no dropper and lose a 1/4#, lose 3# with a rigid fork, and I could drop 1# by riding a Beargrease frame, but then it wouldn't be the trail destroyer that I desire.

I'm in the same camp as Mikesee: "I build the bike I want, it weighs what it weighs".

I used to ride a Mutz, now that was a heavy bike, but I rode it year round, up and down some big hills in the Cascades, never uttered a wimper, just geared it for my needs.

I'll be getting a Lenz Fatillac to complement the Wozo, wheel sharing across the two platforms.

Forget about weight, it's not that important.

What's important is the ride, and the Wozo ride is awesome, it's definietely the most fun fat bike I've ridden. I'm having so much fun on it that I haven't had time to complain about the Bluto


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

PSA: bikeexpress on Pinkbike

They are reporting Wozos in stock, at least one XL frame.

Get yours!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Magicscreen said:


> I've never seen (or at least noticed...) a frame that runs the axle through the hanger like that. Is that common with fat bikes?


For sliding drops, yes.


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Thanks Ben! I didn't have any expectations on the bike's weight. Too new to fat bikes to know anything. 

Have you tried the bluto at 120mm yet? I just got the new air spring shaft and was about to put it in. Part of me likes the bike just the way it is so far. it has handled all that I put it through just fine.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I' hadn't done that yet, no time, but that's the plan. It will increase standover a bit and decrease STA by a degree.



GspotRider said:


> Thanks Ben! I didn't have any expectations on the bike's weight. Too new to fat bikes to know anything.
> 
> Have you tried the bluto at 120mm yet? I just got the new air spring shaft and was about to put it in. Part of me likes the bike just the way it is so far. it has handled all that I put it through just fine.


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## Stilltime (Sep 7, 2015)

Awesome mini review on the Wozo! I've been eyeing these for the past couple months but they're pretty hard to find, let alone a frame only. I sent you a PM in case you still have the medium!


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

would the rear clear 2xl?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It's such a great bike, so sad they didn't build more of them.

I was railing the groomers yesterday, Minions are such fun tires, really need to get on the fork change, but it's hard to motivate at the holidays; I've also been riding three of the last four days


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

akacoke said:


> would the rear clear 2xl?


No

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## frozenmonkey (Apr 30, 2012)

moar pics


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

akacoke said:


> would the rear clear 2xl?


4.8 Minion FBR on a 65mm rim at <10psi has good clearance, any wider and you start rubbing.

Same issue with the Bluto, vertical clearance is already tight.

At a certain point, having a very wide tire negates the value of a "sporty" fat bike.

If I wanted to run 2XL, I'd be looking at something for moving through deep snow, max flotation and stability, likely a longer track, definitely a 197mm spaced rear hub, probably a 120mm bb.


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Hi Ben, I have ridden a few times with the bluto switched to 120mm (with two tokens) and I can say you are not missing anything. The front end gets high enough that it feels like an enduro rig and is not as balanced on climbing and flatter terrain. It is still snowy on my trails and I can't say I have sensed an advantage of increasing the travel to 120mm at this time. Having said that, I am getting used to the new geometry and it feels pretty natural to me now.



Nurse Ben said:


> I' hadn't done that yet, no time, but that's the plan. It will increase standover a bit and decrease STA by a degree.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It is something that requires adjusting. Since my rig is going to be a four season bike, I want at least 120mm for summer.



GspotRider said:


> Hi Ben, I have ridden a few times with the bluto switched to 120mm (with two tokens) and I can say you are not missing anything. The front end gets high enough that it feels like an enduro rig and is not as balanced on climbing and flatter terrain. It is still snowy on my trails and I can't say I have sensed an advantage of increasing the travel to 120mm at this time. Having said that, I am getting used to the new geometry and it feels pretty natural to me now.


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

anyone else have experience with the sizing? I usually ride a large frame but sometimes a medium. I'm 5'11".


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Sonoma_MTB said:


> anyone else have experience with the sizing? I usually ride a large frame but sometimes a medium. I'm 5'11".


Going off the headtube length, TT length, and the longggg front-center, I would say Medium, if the 17" seat tube length is sufficient for your inseem. Based off those first 3 dimensions alone, I would ride a Medium at 6' 2.5", but I need at minimum a 18.5" seat tube for my 36" cycling inseem, so I'd have to size up to the large.


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

OhioPT said:


> Going off the headtube length, TT length, and the longggg front-center, I would say Medium, if the 17" seat tube length is sufficient for your inseem. Based off those first 3 dimensions alone, I would ride a Medium at 6' 2.5", but I need at minimum a 18.5" seat tube for my 36" cycling inseem, so I'd have to size up to the large.


I was thinking the same but I have a 32" inseam and OP said he has the same and rides the large. The geometry numbers on this bike are strange. And since I have to order it online, a test ride is out of the question. Definitely leaning towards medium.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Sonoma_MTB said:


> anyone else have experience with the sizing? I usually ride a large frame but sometimes a medium. I'm 5'11".


Large. The medium really is quite short once it's built. Over the years I've been on the size fence more than once, the two times I chose a medium they ended up being too short.

This bike is meant to be ridden with a 40mm stem, spec the geos you are comparing with a short stem.

I'd put someone 5'9"/30" inseam on a medium, add an inch and unless you have an extremely short torso and arms, your knees will be in the bars.

I'm 5'11"/32" inseam, normal arms and torso, I run 760mm x 20mm riser bar, 40mm stem slammed, seat centered, 150mm dropper slammed, and the fit is perfect.

To ride a medium, I had my seat all the way back, and I needed a 60mm stem, and it was still short.

The only thing that Kona needs to rethink is standover, because the Large frame is tight on the jewels for 31" inseams and less.

Keep in mind that I'm running 26 x 4.8 and 29 x 3 on a 100mm Bluto. Shorter wheels, aka 26 x 4 and 27.5 x 3 would make the Large a smaller fit.

If you want to run more stack or a longer fork, fit shrinks accordingly.

I think the shortest stems out there are 30 or 35mm.

Beau; he's my dog, says "if in doubt, always go bigger".

Woof!


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## mdmoore99 (Oct 7, 2007)

Pictures !


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I guys, I just posted on the other WOZO thread but this one seems a bit more active. Anyone know the BB shell width, crank spindle length, and resulting q factor? Thanks.


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## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

*My Wozo*

I;m running a 4.6 Flowbeist on the front and a 4.0 Vanhelga on the back. Looking to stud the tires too with the winter up here in Canada going from freeze to thaw lots of icy trails.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

dustyduke22 said:


> Just for a FYI for anyone who wants to know, the medium Wozo without axle weights 2370 grams.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


My large frame with seatpost collar, no axle, is 2387 grams.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

will the wozo take a 27.5x4?


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

How is the wozo in the snow? Any limitation due to 4" rear tire? 

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## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

I'm running 4.0 Vanhelga no problems in the snow just lower the psi. Having said that we are having a freeze/thaw winter up here in Ontario Canada, so next week I am installing some grip studs when they arrive at the LBS. Basically i will be prepared for icy conditions having the studs and heavy snow with a great tire like the Vanhelga. As long as you ride with the correct psi for the snowy conditions having a 4.0 on the back hasn't stopped me. I have ridden with 4.6 veerubber on the back on a 2015 Kona Wo and the Vanhelga is a superior snow tire! Now i can't say how the Jumbo Jims perform in the snow that come stock with the Wozo. I only use them the snow is gone!!


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

Wozo said:


> I'm running 4.0 Vanhelga no problems in the snow just lower the psi. Having said that we are having a freeze/thaw winter up here in Ontario Canada, so next week I am installing some grip studs when they arrive at the LBS. Basically i will be prepared for icy conditions having the studs and heavy snow with a great tire like the Vanhelga. As long as you ride with the correct psi for the snowy conditions having a 4.0 on the back hasn't stopped me. I have ridden with 4.6 veerubber on the back on a 2015 Kona Wo and the Vanhelga is a superior snow tire! Now i can't say how the Jumbo Jims perform in the snow that come stock with the Wozo. I only use them the snow is gone!!


Thanks! What front tire are you running?

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## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

I have a Flowbeist 4.6 in the front works great in the snow my bike is the one pictured in front of the garage door a few posts up!! I went with 45 north tires because I didn't want to move the drops outs so I new I needed a good 4.0 in the back so Vanhelga was the choice. Went with the Flowbeist because it is a great front tire and didn't want to mix match!! Again no matter what tire you run on a fat bike psi levels will make or break your ride in the winter!!!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Sonoma_MTB said:


> How is the wozo in the snow? Any limitation due to 4" rear tire?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Same as any other fat bike with a 4" tire. It's all about the pressure.

I run a 4.8 on my Wozo 

If Kona is listening, I would strongly recommend specing a 65mm rim on the next run, this will allow a greater range of tire sizes... OR they could increase the chainstay width


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> will the wozo take a 27.5x4?


Easilly. A 27.5 x 4 is a little taller than a 26 x 4.8, and it's shorter that a 29 x 3, but I can run both with the drops slammed.

I'll be building a set soon.

Probably take a 27.5 x 4.5 if the rim wasn't too wide


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> If Kona is listening, I would strongly recommend specing a 65mm rim on the next run, this will allow a greater range of tire sizes... OR they could increase the chainstay width


I also think 65's would make a bit more sense.

This is really a 'trail' fat bike so 65's and a 120 fork is how I'd have spec'd it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Shinkers said:


> I also think 65's would make a bit more sense.
> 
> This is really a 'trail' fat bike so 65's and a 120 fork is how I'd have spec'd it.


Yup, multi use trail bike. I'll probably run a 120, wish they'd build the frame like the new Honzo so standover is better.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Quite a bit has happened since I bought Bens extra medium Wozo. I bought an axle for it, installed a headset and bb and its just been sitting here ever since. 

I have decided to branch out a little from primarily building wheels and will soon be carrying some lines of fatbikes. Since Kona is not on the list, it does me no good to keep the Wozo even though it is a killer bike.

That being said, I will be looking to sell to my brand new Medium Wozo with axle, bb and headset installed. I am just looking to get what I have into it. Shoot me a PM if you are interested. 

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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

You're gonna sell it without even riding it?

Man, I'd get on that thing, swap the parts from your Bucksaw, it'll certainly turn your head 

So what brands are you going to carry?



dustyduke22 said:


> Quite a bit has happened since I bought Bens extra medium Wozo. I bought an axle for it, installed a headset and bb and its just been sitting here ever since.
> 
> I have decided to branch out a little from primarily building wheels and will soon be carrying some lines of fatbikes. Since Kona is not on the list, it does me no good to keep the Wozo even though it is a killer bike.
> 
> ...


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> You're gonna sell it without even riding it?
> 
> Man, I'd get on that thing, swap the parts from your Bucksaw, it'll certainly turn your head
> 
> ...


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Anyone have an update when the next run of Wozo's is supposed to be available? I know Nurse Ben mentioned Spring 2017, but was wondering if anyone had anything more specific? I sent an email to Kona, as well as, have a local dealer here in Denver checking but haven't heard back.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Otso Vaytek, that's a good one. Enjoy!

I love my Wozo, getting ready to build the 27.5 wheels for 3.8 Minions.

We've had a ton of snow, just one ride in the past week due to limited grooming, but hoping to get out midday tomorrow for a little hiking, packing, riding.

Fat bike fest this weekend in the Methow Valley, should be a hoot!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Otso Vaytek, that's a good one. Enjoy!
> 
> I love my Wozo, getting ready to build the 27.5 wheels for 3.8 Minions.
> 
> ...


Woot woot! It's been a mix of super cold and now rain and warm weather in Northern Utah. Winter needs to make up its mind!

And for anyone wondering, the frame is still available.

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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

dustyduke22 said:


> ...And for anyone wondering, the frame is still available.


If it were a Large I would take it. I just heard Summer now before any new Wozos show up


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

After calling at least 15-20 dealers across the US I finally tracked down a Large. Should have it next week. They are out there but it's a tough go trying to find any.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

It's the last time I will say anything about it, but the medium frame is still available. Will post it up on FB and Pinkbike tomorrow. Just wanted someone here to have a shot at it first 

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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

beachbum1 said:


> I guys, I just posted on the other WOZO thread but this one seems a bit more active. Anyone know the BB shell width, crank spindle length, and resulting q factor? Thanks.


I just measured the bb shell width on my Large at roughly 4.75", so looking like a 121mm. I'll try to get the q-factor measurement later and update


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

anyone know if a 150mm dropper post will fit in a medium frame?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

At full drop?

That would be a yes on a RF 150mm internal. I had one set up and it reached fine, but the medium frame was too small for me so I'm running a 150mm drop in a large frame.



Sonoma_MTB said:


> anyone know if a 150mm dropper post will fit in a medium frame?


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> At full drop?
> 
> That would be a yes on a RF 150mm internal. I had one set up and it reached fine, but the medium frame was too small for me so I'm running a 150mm drop in a large frame.


The dropper routing is internal? Is all the cable routing internal?

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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Easilly. A 27.5 x 4 is a little taller than a 26 x 4.8, and it's shorter that a 29 x 3, but I can run both with the drops slammed.
> 
> I'll be building a set soon.
> 
> Probably take a 27.5 x 4.5 if the rim wasn't too wide


Yo Ben, how much is a little taller? Curious about B-fat as well and wondering if it'd really be much difference over 26x5.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

beachbum1 said:


> I guys, I just posted on the other WOZO thread but this one seems a bit more active. Anyone know the BB shell width, crank spindle length, and resulting q factor? Thanks.


As mentioned above, the shell width is 121mm, and the diameter is 41mm (confusingly, referred to as PF41, PF92, or BB-86). I just purchased and received a Wheels Manufacturing BB: Fat Bike Bottom Brackets . There are 2 PF41 options: I'll be using a Race Face Aeffect Crankset, so I bought the one for Shimano Hollowtech/GPX, but there is also an option for SRAM cranks, which uses a tapered spindle. Just taking it out of the box, it looks like a very high quality piece, as the cups are full alloy (not plastic), it weighs only 113 grams, the bearings are replaceable, and it includes seals and a few very thin spindle spacers (which I don't think are needed for the Wozo). You press in the NDS female cup, and then thread in the male DS cup using an external bearing cup tool.

The Aeffect crankset is a great option, and is what Kona uses on the factory build. It is lightweight, inexpensive, allows you to use Cinch direct mount chain rings, and the smaller 24mm spindle enables the use of larger bearings compared to what can fit with a 30mm spindle. You want the one for 170/177 rear spacing. I haven't installed mine yet, but just mocking it up with the BB set at 121mm, it looks like no extra spacers are needed on the spindle. The Q-factor for this crankset is 205mm (see: https://www.raceface.com/media/Crank_Q-factors_and_chainlines.pdf ).

And just a quick follow-up on the rear axle. Art's Cyclery was able to special order the Maxle Ultimate (part number 00.4318.009.007) for me, so kudos to them for coming through on that.

I'm waiting on a spoke order to build a rear wheel, so that's why I haven't assembled the bike yet. I'll have to harvest some parts from my fat bike, so I'm keeping it in service as long as I can until everything is ready.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Shinkers said:


> Yo Ben, how much is a little taller? Curious about B-fat as well and wondering if it'd really be much difference over 26x5.


I posted pics, the 29+ Minion in the shortest cs position leaves a big 1/8" of clearance at the yoke. This is one of the taller tires, so use that dimension to feed your imagination.

I have no issues with a 4.8 Minion on a 65mm rim, just the right fit, maximizes tire patch with enough snow /mud clearance.

You can look up dimensions on the net.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

My spokes arrived last weekend, so I was able to build my rear fat wheel (Marge Lite on Bitex 177 hub), and then build my large Wozo frame up last Saturday. I'm using a 120mm Bluto, I have the sliders slammed forward for 420mm chain-stays, and 4.5" Snowshoes (which have a pathetically undersized tread:sidewall ratio). The bike weighs 30.25 pounds, without pedals. I'm close to 6'3", with a long 36" inseem and shorter torso, and running a 50mm stem and 750mm bars, which feels perfect to me. 
I got 2 snow-less rides in, and so far I'm liking it. The only downside I noticed so far is a little more precision is needed to get the long front-center around the tightest steep uphill switchbacks, and climbing steeps is best done out of the saddle. Otherwise, the bike handles very well, and pedal strikes are not prevalent (better than the Specialized Fuse I rented last year). I measured the BB height at 313mm, which corresponds well with Kona's 304mm with a 100mm Bluto. 

Today I built up a set of 29+ wheels, using Sun Ringle Duroc 40 rims, and mounted a 120 tpi VeeTrax Fatty 3.0 on the rear and an Innova Transformers Race 3.0 on the front. I measured the BB height at 322mm with the 29+ setup, which is even a little lower than the Trek Stache. Bike weight is 27.25 pounds without pedals. I'm planning to ride this setup tomorrow morning before the trails thaw out from the next heat wave. 

So far the geometry appears spot-on. I was planning on building up a dedicated 29+ bike (Trek Stache, Carver Gnarvester, JabberWocky, etc), but when I saw the Wozo specs, I realized I could have one hardtail to serve as a 29+ bike, and replace my fatbike for the winter when needed. The Wozo frame weight is negligible compared to the other alloy dedicated 29+ options (and less than the steel options), and the q-factor is very reasonable with the 170 rear spacing, so there is really no compromise, IMO.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)




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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

OhioPT said:


> ...Today I built up a set of 29+ wheels, using Sun Ringle Duroc 40 rims, and mounted a 120 tpi VeeTrax Fatty 3.0 on the rear and an Innova Transformers Race 3.0 on the front. I measured the BB height at 322mm with the 29+ setup, which is even a little lower than the Trek Stache. Bike weight is 27.25 pounds without pedals. I'm planning to ride this setup tomorrow morning before the trails thaw out from the next heat wave.
> 
> So far the geometry appears spot-on. I was planning on building up a dedicated 29+ bike (Trek Stache, Carver Gnarvester, JabberWocky, etc), but when I saw the Wozo specs, I realized I could have one hardtail to serve as a 29+ bike, and replace my fatbike for the winter when needed. The Wozo frame weight is negligible compared to the other alloy dedicated 29+ options (and less than the steel options), and the q-factor is very reasonable with the 170 rear spacing, so there is really no compromise, IMO.


Nice work. I'm planning to do the same but with Arc Plus 45's or i45s. Tough to tell from the one pic, but how is the clearance on the Bluto?


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

MSH said:


> Nice work. I'm planning to do the same but with Arc Plus 45's or i45s. Tough to tell from the one pic, but how is the clearance on the Bluto?


There's not a lot of clearance from the fork, ~6mm. It's less than between the rear tire and the frame.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

OhioPT said:


> There's not a lot of clearance from the fork, ~6mm. It's less than between the rear tire and the frame.


In the 420mm position it's about as tight as it is at fork bridge. Nothing really to do about it until one of the fork makers spring for a mold. In all fairness, no one really saw fat bikes taking off as they have, 5" tires, full suspension, rtc...


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

I went to my local kona dealer to order a Wozo at the end of December. The guy at the shop told me I'd hate the wozo and tried to sell me a bike off the floor that was nothing like the wozo. Also said he couldn't get one until spring or summer.

So long story short, I ordered one from www.jejamescycles.com (15% off coupon put the total at $1950 shipped). It took a month to arrive. Just wanted to give you guys a heads up in case you're looking to pick up a complete Wozo sooner than later and don't mind saving $600 in the process.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Sonoma_MTB said:


> I went to my local kona dealer to order a Wozo at the end of December. The guy at the shop told me I'd hate the wozo and tried to sell me a bike off the floor that was nothing like the wozo. Also said he couldn't get one until spring or summer.
> 
> So long story short, I ordered one from JE James Cycles Homepage | JE James Cycles (15% off coupon put the total at $1950 shipped). It took a month to arrive. Just wanted to give you guys a heads up in case you're looking to pick up a complete Wozo sooner than later and don't mind saving $600 in the process.


Nice!

Been riding yet? JJ 4.0/4.8? What rims? Looks like a medium frame, love that low standover, wish my large had a little more room for the jewels, but I needed the reach of the large.

How come you did an external dropper? Assuming thats a 125mm fully extended, then you probably have enough for a 150mm.

You should drop the name of that shop, it's dirty business trying to sell someone something they don't want in hopes that they won't know the difference.

Good job finding a Wozo, it's an awesome bike, totally flew under the radar, I almost missed it. Can't wait for some dry trails so I can pull out the 29+ Minions!


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

Haven't been riding yet... I know embarrassing but it's been so warm here in Colorado and I love my other bike so much that I've just been riding that bike (Stanton switchback). I'll get out on the Wozo soon though.

I didn't know there was routing for internal dropper and I didn't want to exchange the one I had ordered. It's 150 fully extended. And that is as far as the post will fit in the frame. Fortunately it fits me perfectly. I might even put a slightly shorter stem on it. 

In my short rides around the neighbourhood, I'm blown away at how much this fat bike feels like a regular bike. Seems like all the other fat bikes I've ridden feel so clunky. Pretty stoked! 

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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Sonoma_MTB said:


> Haven't been riding yet... I know embarrassing but it's been so warm here in Colorado and I love my other bike so much that I've just been riding that bike (Stanton switchback). I'll get out on the Wozo soon though.....
> 
> In my short rides around the neighbourhood, I'm blown away at how much this fat bike feels like a regular bike. Seems like all the other fat bikes I've ridden feel so clunky. Pretty stoked!


I see by your profile your up in Golden? If so, I have a feeling I know who the dealer is. When I called them to ask about the Wozo they basically told me they weren't bringing any fatbikes in from Kona and they were focusing on Fatback now. The guy I spoke with didn't necessarily steer me away from the Wozo, but if I wanted one I had to place an order and wait until Spring/Summer of this yr.

Anyways, I'm down the road in SW Littleton and although I've been out of commish for the past week+ due to some of my son's super nuclear pre-school germs wrecking me, but I have had an opportunity to get in about 6-7 rides on my Wozo (totally stock build) in the latter portion of January. My out the garage ride on our local trails is pretty much a steep 2k climb to the summit. 
With regards to your comment on the Wozo feeling like a regular bike I'm amazed how well the Wozo motors up the climbs. I expected this thing to be a bit of a tank on the climbs but it rolls really well. I'm sure a lot of this is due to the faster rolling Jumbo Jims, but I'm still surprised. I don't have anything else to go on/compare to since this is my first go at a fatbike. Always been a long-time fatbike holdout, because I have always thought of them as "one trick ponies" and honestly here on the Front Range in the Denver area as soon as we get hit by a storm it's melted again in no time OR it just gets packed in so quickly it's fine motoring on 2.3s-2.4s. Once I started digging into the details on the Wozo it just checked all the boxes for me and the versatility (i.e. true 4 season fatty) is what sealed it for me. Anyways, it's going to be a super, fun bike year round. Looking forward to getting my 29+ wheels built up here shortly for it.


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

That's the shop. And to be fair it was just one guy that tried to sell me the fatback, so I don't want to throw the whole shop under the bus. Seems like an alright shop (though C3 is my favorite in the area.) About to head out to ride chimney or apex (maybe both) to test out the Wozo. And I totally agree that the versatility of the Wozo for front range riding was exactly why I bought it. We get snow for a week and it's gone. It's the perfect winter bike for here.

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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

just got back from my first ride... what a hoot! i was seriously grinning from ear to ear the entire way down. i cant believe this bike doesnt get more attention. one of the most fun bikes i've ever ridden!


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## weegi (May 9, 2014)

Can anyone tell me what stem size & bar length are on the stock Wozo (large)? Thanks


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

weegi said:


> Can anyone tell me what stem size & bar length are on the stock Wozo (large)? Thanks


Bars are 780mm --->XC/BC 35 Riser Handlebar | kona

I believe the stem on my large Wozo is a 70mm but I will confirm as soon as i can


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

70mm on large 60mm on Med. pretty sure 


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## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

*Bar and stem lengh*



weegi said:


> Can anyone tell me what stem size & bar length are on the stock Wozo (large)? Thanks


Bar lengh is 780mm and stem is 75mm on large frame


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I run 740 riser bars and a 40mm stem, short stems suit the Kona frame design


Just finished lacing up some 27.5 Duroc 50s to a lovely set of polished Onyx hubs, got a matched set of 27.5 x 3.8 Minions waiting in the bullpen.

Three Wheelsets to rule them all:

29 x 3
26 x 4.8
27.5 x 3.8

All Minions.


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Hey NB. I am looking to go 29 x 3 for the summer. Hopefully. Is there any clearance issues with the bluto? 
I am very new to this so what exactly would I need to make this conversion. Sorry if this is a very basic question. 
Thanks! 



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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

RideMN said:


> Hey NB. I am looking to go 29 x 3 for the summer. Hopefully. Is there any clearance issues with the bluto?
> I am very new to this so what exactly would I need to make this conversion. Sorry if this is a very basic question.
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bluto clears 29 x 3 Minions with 1/4" clearance, DWs are a little better at 3/8". Not a mud bog set up, but good for firm.

You need another set of wheels.

You might want to try 27.5 x 3+, the bb would be lowish, but fork clearance would be better, and handling would be more trail oriented than 29+; read as more agile.

I have 26, 27.5, and 29, so I can pick and choose.

29+ is a good wheel size, but it's very tall, taller than 26 x 5, so bb is high, standover is high, and fork clearance is tight.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

I would avoid 27.5x3", as it will result in a stupid-low BB height, especially with the 100mm fork. I consider the Specialized Fuse (27.5x3 tires) to have the lowest usable BB height from personal experience, and that bike has a BB drop of 58mm, vs the 66mm drop for the Wozo (and that's not counting fork sag). I find the BB height with a 120mm Bluto to be perfect with 29+ tires personally, and adequate with 26x4.5", considering my trails have rock gardens. Handling with 29+ is plenty agile IMO for our tight mid-west trails, and doesn't feel much different than my normal 29ers. I find the fat tires to be quite lethargic in comparison. YMMV.


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Good info. Thanks!! 


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Ready for spring.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

NB, what's your opinion with the 29+ vs 27.5x3.8? I'm currently running some Hodag's on my plus wheels and really miss the feel of the 3" NN's, but as mentioned the BB is just to low for my trails. I was wondering how much crossover there was between the two wheelsets. I've been really considering going with 29+ to drop the anchor it feels like I'm dragging compared to 3's and maintain the rock crawling BB heights!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

jpfurn said:


> NB, what's your opinion with the 29+ vs 27.5x3.8? I'm currently running some Hodag's on my plus wheels and really miss the feel of the 3" NN's, but as mentioned the BB is just to low for my trails. I was wondering how much crossover there was between the two wheelsets. I've been really considering going with 29+ to drop the anchor it feels like I'm dragging compared to 3's and maintain the rock crawling BB heights!


Just finished the wheels, might get em mounted tomorrow, trying to finish a remodel which is a priority...

It'll probably be next weekend before I can ride em hard on dirt; going to the west side 

Whether you choose 3" or 4" really depends on what you like to ride. My smallest tires are 2.8 Rekons on a DeVinci Hendrix. I don't really ride 4-5" tires except for snow.

Maybe the 3.8 Minions will be awesome and I'll ride them in the summer, but I really doubt it. I lean toward lighter and faster when it's dirt.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Ben, how much more snow riding do you have? Just curious why you built self-proclaimed snow wheels at the end of winter (here in the wasatch). 

If you still have lots of snow disregard me. Nice wheels.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Shinkers said:


> Ben, how much more snow riding do you have? Just curious why you built self-proclaimed snow wheels at the end of winter (here in the wasatch).
> 
> If you still have lots of snow disregard me. Nice wheels.


I'm in Northern UT too, forecasted rain just canceled my Moab trip and dying to get out! Forecast shows more snow thru the week so maybe have to throw the full fat back on


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Meh, any snow we get from here on out I'm betting will be gone pretty fast. Could be wrong though.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Shinkers said:


> Ben, how much more snow riding do you have? Just curious why you built self-proclaimed snow wheels at the end of winter (here in the wasatch).
> 
> If you still have lots of snow disregard me. Nice wheels.


We only have snow, ain't seen dirt since November; unless you count house plants.

You folks in the banana belt got it good, we're a hundred miles from Canada, it's dark and cold here until March.

The 3.8 Minions are not for snow, they're way too skinny. I built them for rock crawling and mud bogging. I got 4.8 Minions for snow.

This pic is taken from our kitchen, we're at 1000 feet elevation, right on the Colombia River, but we ride at 3000 feet. Up in the Methow, North Cascades, they have even more snow, colder by 10-15 degrees, right up on the border.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*tires and rims*



Shinkers said:


> Ready for spring.


Hi Shinkers,
Can you provide the digits on the rims and tires sizes your running as well as the chainring and cog sizes? I am working on a similar set-up and curious what you went with. Cheers,


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

You bet. Rims are both Mulefut 50sl's. Front is 29, rear is 27. 

Tires are Minion DHF 3.0 on front and Chronicle 3.0 rear.

The chainring is a 32 oneup oval with 20t Wolftooth cog. 

The mismatched wheels were done to slacken the head angle a bit and because I think it looks cool. I used the chronicle as a rear because I wanted low rolling resistance and a true 3.0 tire. The Minion is up front because Chronicles have a reputation for being a bit slippery and I think running max grip up front will help that.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*3.0s*



rvercoe said:


> Hi Shinkers,
> Can you provide the digits on the rims and tires sizes your running as well as the chainring and cog sizes? I am working on a similar set-up and curious what you went with. Cheers,


Oh, interesting approach. I am planning on running 27.5 Scraper rims (45 internal) with a Rocket Ron 3.0 rear and a Nobby Nic 3.0 on the front for grip. I have the fork set at 120mm, but am a little concerned about pedal strike (low BB). Others tell me it'll be fine though. I like the idea of slackening the HT angle that you did. I was thinking of doing similar by running a Minion FBF 3.8 up front.

What do you have your Wren fork set to? Those forks seem pretty sick!


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Sick Custom Wozo build: https://factoryjackson.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Kona-Wozo-Garry-Davoren-Bike-Check-4.jpg


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

rvercoe said:


> Oh, interesting approach. I am planning on running 27.5 Scraper rims (45 internal) with a Rocket Ron 3.0 rear and a Nobby Nic 3.0 on the front for grip. I have the fork set at 120mm, but am a little concerned about pedal strike (low BB). Others tell me it'll be fine though. I like the idea of slackening the HT angle that you did. I was thinking of doing similar by running a Minion FBF 3.8 up front.
> 
> What do you have your Wren fork set to? Those forks seem pretty sick!


BB drop with the 120mm fork is ~59mm, which is only 1mm more than a Spec Fuse, so you should be okay. Just don't plan on using tires smaller than 27.5x3.0". The BB height will be ~16mm lower compared to 29x3.0" with a 120mm fork.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

rvercoe said:


> Sick Custom Wozo build: https://factoryjackson.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Kona-Wozo-Garry-Davoren-Bike-Check-4.jpg


Wow. That's a bashguard and short cage away from perfection!


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*Full report*



AllMountin' said:


> Wow. That's a bashguard and short cage away from perfection!


Here is the full report with lots more detailed photos of the Wozo build as well as a few videos of Wozos in action through the British countryside. Enjoy!

https://factoryjackson.com/2017/02/13/kona-wozo-garry-davorens-fat-shredder/


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

rvercoe said:


> Oh, interesting approach. I am planning on running 27.5 Scraper rims (45 internal) with a Rocket Ron 3.0 rear and a Nobby Nic 3.0 on the front for grip. I have the fork set at 120mm, but am a little concerned about pedal strike (low BB). Others tell me it'll be fine though. I like the idea of slackening the HT angle that you did. I was thinking of doing similar by running a Minion FBF 3.8 up front.
> 
> What do you have your Wren fork set to? Those forks seem pretty sick!


my fork is the 110, left full length. I stayed away from the 150 in hopes of still being covered if I need to warranty something.

In hindsight, it's probably not a big deal.

I took the bike out this morning for about 7 or 8 miles of dirt and it was amazing. Manualling is so much easier and the bike is MUCH faster. Corners way better to boot.

I've found my mountain bike.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Wow, that FactoryJackson Wozo is sexy af! All that Hope bling is blinding! You go roll on with the badass Gary!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

AllMountin' said:


> Wow. That's a bashguard and short cage away from perfection!


Nice bike, but mine is nicer 

I do like those Hope stoppers, pretty spiffy in orange.

All I need is a better fork to make my Honzo perfect.

Finger crossed that Sea Otter will bring good news...

Wheelset #3:


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## tilltheend (Dec 29, 2011)

The factory Jackson article says he's running a 120 fork, I wonder if that's the answer. The 4.8 slacks the bike out but I was wondering if a 120 and 4.0 up front would be a good summer combo?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

120mm fork would really increase the stack and make for some seriously tall standover, it might be okay if you were running smaller wheels (27+).

I'd like to see Kona rework the frame for a slacker hta, a little wider cs yoke, and a lower placement of the tt on the seat tube.

The Wozo is a great bike, I'd keep riding it as is, but I'd like to run a 120mm fork as a standard set up. My preference would be a 68deg hta with an angleset, then we could choose steeper or slacker.

I ran 66.5 hta on my Mutz with 140mm travel, it was no slacker in the snow. You dont need a steep hta for good performance in snow


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## htrdoug (Mar 19, 2011)

rvercoe said:


> Here is the full report with lots more detailed photos of the Wozo build as well as a few videos of Wozos in action through the British countryside. Enjoy!
> 
> https://factoryjackson.com/2017/02/13/kona-wozo-garry-davorens-fat-shredder/


First time I saw this vid I thought it was a Wozo and a Wo! I do likey the Blue Wozo,but hoping for some other color for 2018 than either the green or the blue,plus needs a bent top tube for some more standover,Please!
And yes,we need another fork option,even like a fat Auron or Durolux from Suntour would beat a Bluto(although a fat Pike would kill)


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## staz (Jan 29, 2004)

*Finally found one*

One sic bike for sure...2hr drive to Ohio for it!


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

tilltheend said:


> The factory Jackson article says he's running a 120 fork, I wonder if that's the answer. The 4.8 slacks the bike out but I was wondering if a 120 and 4.0 up front would be a good summer combo?


Yes, upping the fork to 120 and dropping the front tire to a 4.0 would just about average out with a slight favor towards a 1/2 degree slacker head angle. Excellent summer option without getting a whole nother wheelset.


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## tilltheend (Dec 29, 2011)

rvercoe said:


> Yes, upping the fork to 120 and dropping the front tire to a 4.0 would just about average out with a slight favor towards a 1/2 degree slacker head angle. Excellent summer option without getting a whole nother wheelset.


That's what I was thinking, I measured it out when I first got it with an anglefinder and it was at 67 I believe or 68 Id have to look on the set up sheet I started.. but it feels good as is just a more travel and less front tire might be even more of a ripper.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

1 degree change per 20mm change in travel, Wozo frame geo is based on 100mm Bluto. Changing to a same size tire will add ~1/2degree assuming the geo is accurate for the 4.0/4.8 tire combo, a 4" tire front and rear with a 120mm fork give you a 68.5 hta

140mm fork would get you a 67.5hta, but also a shite ton of standover.

An Angleset would add a 10mm external cup (-1/2 degree). An Angleset can reduce hta up to 1.5 degrees. You could get a 66.5 hta with a 120mm fork and an Angleset or yiu can get 67.5 with a 100mm fork and an Angleset. 

Anglesets work, I've used them on bikes and tandems.

I think a 120mm fork would be better for trail riding, but it really increases the standover and stack.

Tis a shame the Wozo kept so many attributes of the Wo.

The Wozo is a great frame, but it needs some tweaking to be truly amazing.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

At 6'2.5" with a 36" cycling inseam, I find the large Wozo with a 120mm fork to be excellent in both stand-over and stack height. That's why earlier in the thread I recommended a medium frame to someone who was only 5'11", as there is plenty of toptube/reach/front-center length. There is nothing wrong with running a 60-75mm stem to get the extra cockpit length if you have long arms/torso, and that's what Kona specs on the stock builds. Hell, I would have bought a medium for myself if the seat tube was longer, but I'm fine on a large with a 50mm stem.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*Wozo review from NSMB*

Here is a three person review of the WOZO from the fellas at NSMB. It just came out yesterday.
2017 Kona Wozo - Triple Tester Review


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

OhioPT said:


> At 6'2.5" with a 36" cycling inseam, I find the large Wozo with a 120mm fork to be excellent in both stand-over and stack height. That's why earlier in the thread I recommended a medium frame to someone who was only 5'11", as there is plenty of toptube/reach/front-center length. There is nothing wrong with running a 60-75mm stem to get the extra cockpit length if you have long arms/torso, and that's what Kona specs on the stock builds. Hell, I would have bought a medium for myself if the seat tube was longer, but I'm fine on a large with a 50mm stem.


Yeah, you're a tall guy, the large is a good standover for a 36" inseam, but I'm 5'11" + with a 34" inseam and its marginal at best.

I built a medium first, the standover was amazing, 150mm dropper fit fine, but it was waaay to short, I would have needed an 80mm stem or longer.

The large frame needs better standover.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yeah, you're a tall guy, the large is a good standover for a 36" inseam, but I'm 5'11" + with a 34" inseam and its marginal at best.
> 
> I built a medium first, the standover was amazing, 150mm dropper fit fine, but it was waaay to short, I would have needed an 80mm stem or longer.
> 
> The large frame needs better standover.


Why would you need a stem 40mm or longer than what you are using now (40mm, according to your earlier posts), when the ETT and reach is only 25mm less on the medium vs large?? Seems to me that a 65mm stem would be spot-on for you on a medium. Pick the stem to make the bike fit, not the other way around.

FWIW, I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just wanted others that might be trying to decide between 2 bike frame sizes to hear another viewpoint.


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## giantone (Dec 18, 2011)

I've got a few of these for sale in Michigan if anyone is trying to source one.


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## htrdoug (Mar 19, 2011)

OhioPT said:


> Why would you need a stem 40mm or longer than what you are using now (40mm, according to your earlier posts), when the ETT and reach is only 25mm less on the medium vs large?? Seems to me that a 65mm stem would be spot-on for you on a medium. Pick the stem to make the bike fit, not the other way around.
> 
> FWIW, I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just wanted others that might be trying to decide between 2 bike frame sizes to hear another viewpoint.


I personally can tolerate a extra 50mm of wheelbase over the steering feel of 50mm extra in a stem.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

OhioPT said:


> Why would you need a stem 40mm or longer than what you are using now (40mm, according to your earlier posts), when the ETT and reach is only 25mm less on the medium vs large?? Seems to me that a 65mm stem would be spot-on for you on a medium. Pick the stem to make the bike fit, not the other way around.
> 
> FWIW, I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just wanted others that might be trying to decide between 2 bike frame sizes to hear another viewpoint.


The medium rode very small, can't remember the specifics, but I built it first with a 50mm stem, tried a 60mm, still very short in reach, built the large and the reach is perfect with a 45mm.

Keep in mind that longer stems don't change the geometry, they simply move the bars forward. The triangle remains the same, changing stems is not the same as having the correct fit.

Kona designs these frames for a 50mm stem, it's a fat Honzo.

The Honzo is designed with low standover tt that has a brace to the st, not sure why they didn't do this on the Wozo... maybe next year?

I hear what you're saying about being between sizes, but having sized too small in the past, I would recommend going up in size. I got this same feedback from another MTBR poster on a Mutz, fought it, but he was right.

It's a great bike, frame is not that expensive and they are in demand, you could always swap out later.

Just a thought: the Kona geo makes their frames seem bigger than they actually are, so pick your frame size based on what you normally ride (s, m, l), use the Kona sizing guide.

I wouldn't put anyone over 5'10/31" inseam on a medium.

I'm Close to 6', longish arms, typically buy XL jackets for sleeve legth, Patagonia base layers top and bottom in a large, Kuhl pants in a 32" inseam.

I run a 150mm dropper, full length, it's slammed but I could raise it 1/2" if I wanted more extension; I prefer more butt clearance. Chromag 20mm iser bars, Chromag 45mm stem, 5mm spacer under the stem. 100mm Bluto.

I'm getting long winded here, but another thing to keep in mind is a longer travel fork will shorten the cockpit, so if you're thinking of running a 120mm fork, definitely go up in frame size.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

htrdoug said:


> I personally can tolerate a extra 50mm of wheelbase over the steering feel of 50mm extra in a stem.


We are talking 25mm here not 50. You are basically saying that if you should be riding a small Wozo (based on your inseem, and therefore standover height), you'd rather buy a large and run a 15 long stem (gaining 50mm of WB and dropping 50mm of stem length). Standover clearance and weight distribution be damned. Let me know how that works out for you.


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

I am 5'10 1/2" tall. I started with a large WoZo. Felt pretty good but the stand over height put the top tube right in my business. Went to a medium with a 50mm stem and will probably end up with a 60 - 65mm stem to perfect the fit. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Keep in mind that longer stems don't change the geometry, they simply move the bars forward. The triangle remains the same, changing stems is not the same as having the correct fit.
> *Exactly my point. Some bikes have a short front-center and it can be beneficial to "size-up" for more stability, but this is obviously not the case with the Wozo. I recall you arguing why you bought a medium Devinci Atlas at the time because the large "felt" too big. Now that is one bike that you should have bought in a bigger size, as the front-center on the medium with a 120mm fork is only 665mm. That's 97mm shorter than a large Wozo! I bought an XL Atlas frame specifically because I knew I wanted the longer front-center, despite some people arguing that the bike "fit big".*
> 
> Kona designs these frames for a 50mm stem, it's a fat Honzo.
> ...


Keep in mind, this is just my opinion. I ultimately recommend potential buyers doing a thorough test ride, although this is not always possible.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

RideMN said:


> I am 5'10 1/2" tall. I started with a large WoZo. Felt pretty good but the stand over height put the top tube right in my business. Went to a medium with a 50mm stem and will probably end up with a 60 - 65mm stem to perfect the fit.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup, you are literally on the fence.

The Wozo geo needs some tweaking, longer reach by 20mm on the medium and large would make them fit their target population.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yup, you are literally on the fence.
> 
> The Wozo geo needs some tweaking, longer reach by 20mm on the medium and large would make them fit their target population.


Figuratively.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Minion 3.8 x 27.5 on Duroc 50s, tire diameter is the same as Minion 4.8 x 26 on Large Marge 65mm rims.

Riding Ancient Lakes tomorrow if it doesn't snow....


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

^^^ that's a sweet setup.

Hey does anyone here know a fender that will fit the bluto with the stock 4.8 tire in the front? The blackburn one I bought doesn't fit - ive rigged it temporarily under the fork crown but it's not ideal. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Sonoma_MTB said:


> ^^^ that's a sweet setup.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


+1 Looks killer. Good job NB.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Sonoma_MTB said:


> Hey does anyone here know a fender that will fit the bluto with the stock 4.8 tire in the front?


The one I have from T'aint Muddy Fenders has worked great so far---> T'aint Muddy Fenders


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Update: I have 6 rides now on my 29+ setup. The weather here quickly changed from freezing to consistently in the 60's (up to 75 degrees 2 days ago!). Of course this morning it's back down in the 20's... Anyways, with the good weather I was able to get four decent 14-20 mile trail rides in. This is my first experience with 29+ tires, although I did do a couple rentals on 27+ bikes last year. I was anticipating some heavy steering and vague handling, but I experienced NONE of that. Basically, it feels like my 29x2.4 tires, but with another dose of momentum, rollover, and traction. It feels similar to when I went from 2.25" to 2.4" tires. I can detect just a little more rolling resistance when climbing, but nothing like what I feel with full fat tires. 

I didn't set any PR's according to Strava, but I really didn't expect to considering that: A) I'm in "winter shape" from not being able to regularly ride 3-4x/week and B) the trails were not in perfect shape-although certainly excellent for this time of year. That said, my segment times were not too far off, on average ~5-10% off my best. If I was racing, or if I was doing a loop that involved a lot of road (dirt, gravel, or paved), I'm pretty sure I would opt for smaller tires. But for chunky terrain or softer conditions, 29+ is pretty awesome. If I get the time later this year, I'll swap the tires out for 29x2.4 rubber and see how much different my times are. I'm a very consistent rider on familiar trails, at a given fitness level and trail condition, so I should get some useful data.

The BB height is perfect, as I've only experienced 2 pedal strikes the whole time, yet it feels nice and planted during higher speed cornering, or when descending the steeps. The short chainstays really help to hide the overall length of the bike on the switchbacks and I was able to "clean" all the really tight corners, although I certainly wouldn't want the front-center to be any longer for my trails.


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

MSH said:


> The one I have from T'aint Muddy Fenders has worked great so far---> T'aint Muddy Fenders


Thanks! Just ordered a front and rear.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

OhioPT said:


> Update: I have 6 rides now on my 29+ setup. The weather here quickly changed from freezing to consistently in the 60's (up to 75 degrees 2 days ago!). Of course this morning it's back down in the 20's... Anyways, with the good weather I was able to get four decent 14-20 mile trail rides in. This is my first experience with 29+ tires, although I did do a couple rentals on 27+ bikes last year. I was anticipating some heavy steering and vague handling, but I experienced NONE of that. Basically, it feels like my 29x2.4 tires, but with another dose of momentum, rollover, and traction. It feels similar to when I went from 2.25" to 2.4" tires. I can detect just a little more rolling resistance when climbing, but nothing like what I feel with full fat tires.
> 
> I didn't set any PR's according to Strava, but I really didn't expect to considering that: A) I'm in "winter shape" from not being able to regularly ride 3-4x/week and B) the trails were not in perfect shape-although certainly excellent for this time of year. That said, my segment times were not too far off, on average ~5-10% off my best. If I was racing, or if I was doing a loop that involved a lot of road (dirt, gravel, or paved), I'm pretty sure I would opt for smaller tires. But for chunky terrain or softer conditions, 29+ is pretty awesome. If I get the time later this year, I'll swap the tires out for 29x2.4 rubber and see how much different my times are. I'm a very consistent rider on familiar trails, at a given fitness level and trail condition, so I should get some useful data.
> 
> The BB height is perfect, as I've only experienced 2 pedal strikes the whole time, yet it feels nice and planted during higher speed cornering, or when descending the steeps. The short chainstays really help to hide the overall length of the bike on the switchbacks and I was able to "clean" all the really tight corners, although I certainly wouldn't want the front-center to be any longer for my trails.


Sigh... now I really want to pick up a Wozo.

Los


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

staz said:


> One sic bike for sure...2hr drive to Ohio for it!


Congrats! What dealer did you visit in Ohio, and how did they treat you?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

sslos said:


> Sigh... now I really want to pick up a Wozo.
> 
> Los


Just do it, you will not be disappointed. Outside of spending $$$ on a custom frame, the Wozo is a tough act to follow.


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## staz (Jan 29, 2004)

OhioPT said:


> Congrats! What dealer did you visit in Ohio, and how did they treat you?


Blimp City Bike and Hike..they were awesome...knock of some $ for the drive and discounted for paying cash!

I got a medium..at 6' and 50mm stem..TT is just right and prefer the short seat tube for snow riding.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

That looks like a dialed wheelset NB. I'm interested to hear how it rides. How much travel do you have on the front end?


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

I have been using these fenders.

https://www.themudhugger.us.com/shop/


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## TomiKoo (Aug 2, 2015)

I have been reading and reading but my question still is: does it fit 4,8" Jumbo Jim in the rear? I don't need lection about changed geometry and slider's all the way back is ok. Just please share if you have info if 4,8" or at least 4,4" JJ will fit.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

TomiKoo said:


> I have been reading and reading but my question still is: does it fit 4,8" Jumbo Jim in the rear? I don't need lection about changed geometry and slider's all the way back is ok. Just please share if you have info if 4,8" or at least 4,4" JJ will fit.


It depends on rim width and actual tire size, but with the stock 80mm rims, a 4.8" is likely too tight.

Change to a narrower rim like the Large Marge 65mm and fit will probably be fine.

It's not tire height that limits fit (ie sliders), it's chainstay width.

If you can provide a tire width on the rim you plan to use, I can measure the chainstays.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

rvercoe said:


> That looks like a dialed wheelset NB. I'm interested to hear how it rides. How much travel do you have on the front end?


100mm. Will take it to 120mm come summer or not


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> 100mm. Will take it to 120mm come summer or not


Yeah, I'm thinking that putting tires of the same diameter on without bumping up the travel will steepen the HA by 1/2 to 1 degree considering the stock geometry at 69 degrees is based on a 4.0 rear and 4.8 front tire combo. That would mean going to a 70 degree HA with equal size tires whatever they be. I think for my 27+ set-up I'll go 120mm on the fork to atleast keep HA as slack as possible and the BB up a bit.

I guess an angle-set headset could be a good upgrade to this bike for those of use that want to run multiple tire and wheel size options. I just prefer the new-geo feel of slightly steeper HA (66-68 degrees), long front-center, and short rear end.

I'm curious to hear if you notice the steeper HA with the dual 3.8s. Cheers!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Is the head the angle in fact measured with a 4.8 on front and 4.0 in the rear?

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

rvercoe said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking that putting tires of the same diameter on without bumping up the travel will steepen the HA by 1/2 to 1 degree considering the stock geometry at 69 degrees is based on a 4.0 rear and 4.8 front tire combo. That would mean going to a 70 degree HA with equal size tires whatever they be. I think for my 27+ set-up I'll go 120mm on the fork to atleast keep HA as slack as possible and the BB up a bit.
> 
> I guess an angle-set headset could be a good upgrade to this bike for those of use that want to run multiple tire and wheel size options. I just prefer the new-geo feel of slightly steeper HA (66-68 degrees), long front-center, and short rear end.
> 
> I'm curious to hear if you notice the steeper HA with the dual 3.8s. Cheers!


I have dual 4.8 already, so not gonna notice any change in hta cuz there ain't none.

Don't get too hung up on hta, long and low makes it ride different, even the Honzo is not that slack in today's view.

An angleset is the answer, combined with a 120mm fork.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Melt out ride yesterday, mix of snow, muck, grass, dirt, and rock. Flung myself over the bars from a pedal snag at speed, did some techy rock crawling over gnarly basalt, lots of wheelieing over sage and snow drifts, such a fun bike.

For sure, the 27.5 x 3.8 Minions are a good choice for all around use, love the combination of height and width. I'll probably switch to 29 x 3 for summer, though these tires are pretty fun.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

staz said:


> Blimp City Bike and Hike..they were awesome...knock of some $ for the drive and discounted for paying cash!
> 
> I got a medium..at 6' and 50mm stem..TT is just right and prefer the short seat tube for snow riding.


dang it thats only a hour from me.... btw how does the Medium feel? im 5'11'' 32 inseam and was dead set on finding a large.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

sml-2727 said:


> dang it thats only a hour from me.... btw how does the Medium feel? im 5'11'' 32 inseam and was dead set on finding a large.


You can take my large for a spin some time to get a feel for the fit.


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## Pack66 (Jul 7, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> Minion 3.8 x 27.5 on Duroc 50s, tire diameter is the same as Minion 4.8 x 26 on Large Marge 65mm rims.
> 
> Riding Ancient Lakes tomorrow if it doesn't snow....
> 
> View attachment 1123634


Nurse Ben, can you measure the diameter of your tire/width at its widest? I'm thinking about trying a larger tire on my Fuel 27+ bike as it may need new rims...wonder if a 3.8 with a 50mm rim would work in the back. I know it will in the front.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Pack66 said:


> Nurse Ben, can you measure the diameter of your tire/width at its widest? I'm thinking about trying a larger tire on my Fuel 27+ bike as it may need new rims...wonder if a 3.8 with a 50mm rim would work in the back. I know it will in the front.


The info is out there, bike is in my van, I'm not going outsidr, I'm going to bed 

I doubt it will fit, this is fat tire, width is 3.75" on a 50mm rim, height is the same as a 26 x 4.8 Minion.

Doing a back of a napkin calculation, to change from a 27.5 x 3 Minion to a 27.5 x 3.8 Minion, you need an additional 1/2" at the yoke and to either side at the chainstays AT THE MINIMUM.

Your dreaming.

Try a fatter 3" like a NN or try a 3.25".


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

sml-2727 said:


> dang it thats only a hour from me.... btw how does the Medium feel? im 5'11'' 32 inseam and was dead set on finding a large.


I'm about a half inch taller than you with the same inseam. For me, the medium is perfect with the stock 60 mm stem. I've even thought once or twice about putting a 40 or 50 mm stem but I'll probably stick with 60.

I'm usually a large or 18" in frames but on the Wozo the medium is the perfect fit for me.

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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Sonoma_MTB said:


> I'm about a half inch taller than you with the same inseam. For me, the medium is perfect with the stock 60 mm stem. I've even thought once or twice about putting a 40 or 50 mm stem but I'll probably stick with 60.
> 
> I'm usually a large or 18" in frames but on the Wozo the medium is the perfect fit for me.


You must have a really short torso and arms, I can't imagine riding this bike short. I find my large Hendrix to ride short, the large Wozo is just right.

I wouldn't buy a bike based on printed geo, test ride or deal with the consequences. Based on print, I would barely fit a medium. Based on riding I fit a large perfectly with a 40mm stem, seat centered.

Such a fun trail bike, rode some sticky fresh on top of a firm base yesterday, 4" tires were just enough for the climb and a hoot on the descent, catching air of risers. Cleaned up a jump and did some repeats.

Need this bike in FS!


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## Sonoma_MTB (Mar 18, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> You must have a really short torso and arms, I can't imagine riding this bike short. I find my large Hendrix to ride short, the large Wozo is just right.
> 
> I wouldn't buy a bike based on printed geo, test ride or deal with the consequences. Based on print, I would barely fit a medium. Based on riding I fit a large perfectly with a 40mm stem, seat centered.
> 
> ...


I just like being a bit more upright on my bikes and certainly the standover clearance on the medium is very nice for anyone that fits on it.

And yes, this bike is ridiculously fun. I was almost ashamed at how much I love it. I have a Ti Stanton Switchback hardtail with a really nice build on it - and I think the Wozo is more fun. So much so that I'm actually going to sell the stanton.

A local bike shop owner asked me a couple weeks ago what was so fun about the wozo, as he didnt believe the hype. I told him at first it was kind of like hooking up with a fat chick, secretly its got you grinning ear to ear the whole ride but you really dont want anyone to know about it. But now its a full blown love affair and I dont care who knows it.

This is actually the 2nd time I've owned a Kona I love this much. I'm not sure why I still buy bikes from other manufacturers as Kona seems to have figured out my fun button better than any other manufacturer I've ridden.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Standover is a "tight" on the Large if you're inseam is less than 33", but that seems to be the case with a bunch of bikes; the Beargrease.

Standover is only an issue if I'm not on the pedals...so I try to stay on thr pedals 

For perspective: I wear 32" inseam in Kuhl pants, might wear 33" if they existed and I wanted the cuff to crease against my shoes. Wearing flat riding shoes, straddling mid toptube, I can lift the bike 1.5" on both ends; that's wearing 27.5 x 3.8's. With 29 x 3's, I'd lose 1/2" standover. 

I'd prefer a bent toptube with a braced seat post tube as Kona does on the Honzo.

All that aside, I would not prefer to ride a medium frame because handling would be compromised with a long stem and the tight cockpit would be uncomfortable.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Gone PURPLE!









All I need now is a Manitou Mastodon 120mm fork


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

What seatpost clamp is that?? Looking for a purple one also! 


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

RideMN said:


> What seatpost clamp is that?? Looking for a purple one also!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Clamp is the Salsa Liplock, 32.0, Jenson, $22.

Bars are Raceface Atlas, discontinued, got the last set from Jenson


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Thanks man. Damn, Those purple bars are sexy


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We got melted out a bit, so I'm heading out to ride 29+ in the morning; seems like Spring is starting to show it's face.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

This has to be the warmest & driest winter since I have lived on the Front Range, so I have definitely been able to put some dirt miles on the Wozo. Different story here at my parents place in Gunnison/Crested Butte. They have had a big yr. This is today's ride hitting some of the groomers off Brush Creek Rd---> Canal & Bonus for those of you familiar with CB trails.

As far as sizing, I'm right at 6' but all legs with 34.5" inseam. I don't necessarily need the crazy reach the Large Wozo has but I need the LG seattube length. I'm still running the stock 75mm stem but plan to go down to a 50mm. Definite adjustment for me coming from my OG Ripley and HD3, since Ibis tends to have shorter reach bikes compared to most.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

So I finally got to ride one on Sunday (thanks staz) and feel the medium should work for me at 5'11". I am though going to wait til the 2018's come out. I emailed Kona and the said around Aug/Sept. I also asked if a carbon model would be in there plans and although he did not say yes he also did not say no either and for me to keep and eye on the website for whats new to come out from Kona....Hmmmmm


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*Wozo in summer "skinny" mode*

I just spent 3 ripping days at Glendo WY trail system with my new 27.5x3.0 wheelse. The Wozo is definitely that elusive "quiver-killer" unicorn of bikes for me. It rode excellently in 27+ all-mtn trail mode. From flowy, twisty to rockgnar tech sections and full throttle off-camber downhills. I am running Hope Fatsno hubs with WTB Scraper 45mm internal width rims and Schwalbe 3.0 tires (Rocket Ron and Nobby Nik). The bottom bracket is at about 306mm height which is a little low for some rocky tech moves, but then it is nice for railing turns (I should note that i have the fork bumped up to 120mm travel). I also lost about 4-5 pounds of the bike compared to the stock wheelset/tire combo.
Now I have a great snow bike for the winter and the same bike with different wheels as a great all-mtn hardtail for the summer. I couldn't be more impressed with the Wozo overall.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

saw one in person on the weekend, nice ride. 

For anyone looking, Kamikaze Bikes in Collingwood, ON has a large complete for sale ($2600 CAD). 

Not different enough from my Farley 7 (with Bluto and 2 wheelsets) though to consider selling mine to get it. And my 29+ wheels wouldn't swap over due to the rear hub spacing.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*Tire modification*



rvercoe said:


> I just spent 3 ripping days at Glendo WY trail system with my new 27.5x3.0 wheelse. The Wozo is definitely that elusive "quiver-killer" unicorn of bikes for me. It rode excellently in 27+ all-mtn trail mode. From flowy, twisty to rockgnar tech sections and full throttle off-camber downhills. I am running Hope Fatsno hubs with WTB Scraper 45mm internal width rims and Schwalbe 3.0 tires (Rocket Ron and Nobby Nik). The bottom bracket is at about 306mm height which is a little low for some rocky tech moves, but then it is nice for railing turns (I should note that i have the fork bumped up to 120mm travel). I also lost about 4-5 pounds of the bike compared to the stock wheelset/tire combo.
> 
> UPDATE:
> I swapped the NN 3.0 to the rear and put a Minion FBF 3.8 on the front. This has really improved the Wozo for technical, rocky terrain. The NN greatly improved traction in the rear compared to the RR. The FBF obviously increased traction due to its size but, more importantly, it slackened the head angle by about another half degree and raised the bottom bracket by another 5mm (putting it at 311mm height now). At Gowdy State Park I hit the steepest, most technical rock sections I have ever ridden and the bike ate all up without an issue. Truly outstanding. I think I will keep this set-up for technical riding until I can get a fatbike fork with 140mm of travel like the new Manitou Mastidon.
> ...


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

can anyone comment on the q factor one can achieve on this bike? The smaller the better


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

beachbum1 said:


> can anyone comment on the q factor one can achieve on this bike? The smaller the better


I'm running RF Next SL Cinch 170mm carbon cranks they are slightly narrower than the RF Turbine (~6mm per side), chainstay clearance is 9-10mm. You can check the RF sie to see the q factors.

Not sure if any crank set will have a lower q, the Next SL is a pretty flat crank arm.

Something I've considered is cutting the BB down to fit an 83mm spindle. This mod would work with the Next SL cranks, RF has an 83mm spindle. Downside is 5" tire clearance would require a chainring swap; only an issue in the deepest of winter.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Is anybody running a Wren Inverted Fork on their Wozo? 

I am interested in its performance for technical, rocky, dirt riding. Not so much for snow, as a rigid fork is fine for that. I would like to upgrade to a 140mm travel fork to run with my 27+ wheelset that will give me hardhitting performance for summer riding.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

rvercoe said:


> Is anybody running a Wren Inverted Fork on their Wozo?
> 
> I am interested in its performance for technical, rocky, dirt riding. Not so much for snow, as a rigid fork is fine for that. I would like to upgrade to a 140mm travel fork to run with my 27+ wheelset that will give me hardhitting performance for summer riding.


Wait for the Manitou.

The Wozo is designed for a 100mm fork, so jumping 40mm is huge, you may not like the results.

I think 120mm is reasonable for this bike.

Edit: I've had three Wren and three Bluto forks, have one Bluto remaining, waiting on the Manitou Mastodon.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Here is a good review vs the Bluto


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## TJayL (Aug 27, 2015)

I picked up my Wozo last week to replace a Pugsley. I haven't gotten a ride on it yet as the trails are too wet for riding. I've just been playing around with it in the road. It was a big debate between a medium and a large. Both seemed to fit well. In the end I went with the medium as it felt more nimble. Can't wait to get on the trails. I've got a 2014 Precept DL that has been my summer bike. I'm curious to see if the Wozo will become my go to bike.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

rvercoe said:


> Is anybody running a Wren Inverted Fork on their Wozo?
> 
> I am interested in its performance for technical, rocky, dirt riding. Not so much for snow, as a rigid fork is fine for that. I would like to upgrade to a 140mm travel fork to run with my 27+ wheelset that will give me hardhitting performance for summer riding.


The wren is great. I'm running 110 on mine with a 29 plus front and 27 plus rear. Feels great. The 140 might help compensate for the lowered bb due to the 27 plus wheels.

Ben might only have a bluto now but he seems to forget he was one of wrens biggest supporters while he had his 3(!) Wrens. Not sure why it sucks so much now.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Shinkers said:


> The wren is great. I'm running 110 on mine with a 29 plus front and 27 plus rear. Feels great. The 140 might help compensate for the lowered bb due to the 27 plus wheels.
> 
> Ben might only have a bluto now but he seems to forget he was one of wrens biggest supporters while he had his 3(!) Wrens. Not sure why it sucks so much now.


The Wren was never more than it is, the torsional flex, the cockeyed issues, poopy damper, those are unchanged.

The reason I got a Bluto for the Wozo was price (got it at cost) and because I knew the Mastodon was coming.


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Hey Rvercoe. Looking to build a new wheel set for my WoZo. What rims did you use for your 3.8 / 3.0 combo? 


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

RideMN said:


> Hey Rvercoe. Looking to build a new wheel set for my WoZo. What rims did you use for your 3.8 / 3.0 combo?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sunringle Duroc 40/50, burly rims, excellent tubeless. Width will depend if you want a little extra tire or a little extra rim.

Personally, the size difference from 3.0 to 3.8 is a bit much for me, I'd run 3.0 front and rear for summer, then add an angleset and/or 120mm fork, that'll correct the low bb and give you the desired hta.

To get the tire differential with greater traction up front, pick a low tread rear. In 27.5 x 3.8 tires there are few choices, but in 3.0" there are tons of choices. 3.0" will also be lighter and more agile.

If I wanted a more "mixxer" kind of ride, I'd run 29+ front/27+ rear, same tire width.


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Yeah I do think I will go 27.5 x 3.0 front and back and bump the Bluto to 120. Thanks for the advice. 


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Hi RideMN, 
See below.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

RideMN said:


> Hey Rvercoe. Looking to build a new wheel set for my WoZo. What rims did you use for your 3.8 / 3.0 combo?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi RideMN, 
I recommend the WTB Scraper 45 (45mm internal diameter) over the Duroc. Mostly due to the sleeved join on the rim rather than a spot weld join on the Durocs. Increased rim integrity at the join. But that is really mostly a concern if you are going to do big-hit, technical, or rocky riding. Smooth, flow, XC-style riding won't make a difference between either of those rims as they are about the same weight and price-point.

What I do know is that the Scrapers set-up tubeless ridiculously easy and solid. I have done all of mine and my wife's first try with an old floor pump. Something I always had a tougher time doing on any other brand or size of rim before and certainly not with a 100% success-rate without going to an air compressor.

As far as tire choice goes, here's the deal. I ride rocky technical terrain both for preference and for the fact there is an abundance of it nearby. So in order to achieve an "All-mtn hardtail" set-up that achieves acceptable levels of performance I have settled on the following: Bluto fork w/ 120mm travel, Minion FBF 3.8 front, Nobby Nik 3.0 rear. I tried a Rocket Ron (low tread type of tire) on the rear and found it noticeably lacking in the traction department for decomposed granite over solid rock and dirt, technical climbs, and rock hits. I switched to the meatier and slightly tougher NN and things are perfect in the rear-end for confident traction, handling and durability. Now for the Front, I started with the NN on the front when the RR was on the rear. Naturally, the NN was awesome up there. I'll admit the NN may be my favorite all around tire of all time. But, the 3.0/3.0 pairing left my bottom bracket and head angle too low and steep, respectively. At least for my needs (ie riding style and trails). I was getting more pedal strikes than desired in technical sections, even after accounting for more conscious pedal management, and the HA was a little too XC for what I needed. An angle set headset would have remedied the HA, but left the BB height arguably even a touch lower. So my most efficient and economical solution was to put the FBF 3.8 up front. This has increased BB height to a nice 311mm and set the HA at about 68 degrees.

Remember that the Wozo is originally designed around a 4.0 rear / 4.8 front 26 inch wheel combo to achieve the desired BB height and HA. This is replicated with the 27x3 / 27x3.8 combo, plus I get an extra bit from the 120 fork to slack the HA for more aggressive descending. Now, as Ben notes, I could also achieve this same result by using a 29x3.0 front wheel/tire, but that would necessitate a complete new front wheel and tire combo. Obviously, the other difference in using the 3.8 FBF over a 29x3 is the increased traction from a larger contact patch due to the width and the increased volume which adds additional undampened suspension. Neither of which increase rolling resistance much as it is on the front wheel, but does increase descending confidence when you weight the front end and dig that big tire in for all its worth.

In summary, definitely get a 45mm internal diameter rim (Scraper or Duroc) to have the greatest tire size applicability. Start with 3.0 tires and get the fork upto 120mm. If you prefer and ride more XC, flow, non-technical terrain then this set-up should be the bees knees for you. It is super fun and the low BB and plus tires' contact patch will have you cornering like a Jedi on a speeder bike. If you ride more technical terrain, you may find that a higher front end (either through a larger tire or longer travel fork) will be the antidote to get your BB and HA dialed. Ultimately, in my case, I would rather save my pennies for a 140mm fork up front and then put 27x3.0 NN or equivalent on my custom 27.5 wheelset that I just laid-out for.

Hope this helps, and thanks to the folks that provided feedback on 140mm fork recommendations and reviews.

Cheers, Rico


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Thats great info. Thanks for the help guys!! 

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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Hi Ben et al,

What face face spindle length do I need for a race face next sl G4 crank and which bottom bracket for the wozo?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

RF Spindle is only offered in one length, different q depending on crank.

Gotta disagrer on the 4.0/4.8 tire mixing. Granted, it's not uncommon to ride different tire widths, 2.25 rear and 2.4 front, but the difference between a 4.8 and a 4.0 is too great to be rational. It was a screw up. It might be a different story if plus/fat tires ran in small incrementd, 4.0/4.25 for example.

To think of it another way, would you run a 27.5 x 2.25 in the rear and a 27.5 x 3 in the front? Nah, no one does that, it'd be silly.

As to the rims, I'm gonna also disagree on the Scrapers. I've built two sets, trashed one set, still got one set, they build poorly, prone to flat spotting, get dinged easilly, and dent easilly. Durocs are bomber, typical Sunringle quality, WTB just doesnt compare. Second rim choice would be Velocity Dually, got a set of those on my plus bike, take a licking and still holding strong; though they tend to scratch easy.

Just a quick note on adding an angleset to the Wozo: because it would be an external lower cup, the HT is raised 10mm, so you get 0.5 deg slacker just by adding the angleset. That 10mm is nearly the same difference as you'll find between a 27.5 x 3.8 and a 27.5 x 4.8, now combine the angleset with a 120mm fork and you're HT end is more than an inch higher than stock.

Get some decent hubs, DT Swiss, Onyx, King.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Gotta disagrer on the 4.0/4.8 tire mixing. Granted, it's not uncommon to ride different tire widths, 2.25 rear and 2.4 front, but the difference between a 4.8 and a 4.0 is too great to be rational. It was a screw up.


Hey Ben, that's pretty cool. When did you start working in Kona's development team?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Gotta disagrer on the 4.0/4.8 tire mixing. Granted, it's not uncommon to ride different tire widths, 2.25 rear and 2.4 front, but the difference between a 4.8 and a 4.0 is too great to be rational. It was a screw up. It might be a different story if plus/fat tires ran in small incrementd, 4.0/4.25 for example.


Coming from some one who has recommended people try 27.5+ rear and 29+ front....?

It's not a screw up, it actually works rather nicely. Since when did you become the expert on being rational?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

nitrousjunky said:


> Coming from some one who has recommended people try 27.5+ rear and 29+ front....?
> 
> It's not a screw up, it actually works rather nicely. Since when did you become the expert on being rational?


That was only while he was raving about how wonderful the Wren was.
While raving about a bike with long chain stays
But that was then....and this is now.....
#alternatefacts


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> ...As to the rims, I'm gonna also disagree on the Scrapers. I've built two sets, trashed one set, still got one set, they build poorly, prone to flat spotting, get dinged easilly, and dent easilly....


With regards to the Scrapers durability I don't have any personal experience, however, Chad at Red Barn in Montana who builds all my wheels indicated to me that he prefers the Scrapers because of their durability when I approached him for a set for my Wozo--> _"I like the WTB's a little more for durability sake. Seem to be a little more stout."_ Chad does know just a thing or two about building wheels. If you do a search he's generally one of the long time, recommended wheelbuilders here on mtbr. He's been around a long time and I definitely value his opinion. Every one of the wheelsets he has built for me has been rock solid.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

From my personal time on the Scrapers, they have been bomber. Granted, I run the right pressure so I am not touching the rim constantly on the trail. 

The i40 vs the i45 Scraper are a bug difference. The i40 can't hold a candle to the durability of the i45. 

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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I could say many things, but why bother, fat bike season is coming to an end, this forum will go into hibernation shortly.

See ya next season


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> I could say many things, but why bother, fat bike season is coming to an end, this forum will go into hibernation shortly.
> 
> See ya next season


With a bike like the Wozo, I expect there to be a pretty outstanding summer (plus bike) season ahead. At least that is what I am counting on and the interest so far seems that others are going to give it a go as well. Thanks for contributing NB. As long as we are all having a Rad time riding and sharing our experiences, there shouldn't be any problem if we disagree on the details. Cheers.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

My fat bike season just started...???

... and I'm running a 4.8 front and 4.0 rear. 

Maybe next year I'll get this fat biking thing figured out..


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

rvercoe said:


> With a bike like the Wozo, I expect there to be a pretty outstanding summer (plus bike) season ahead. At least that is what I am counting on and the interest so far seems that others are going to give it a go as well. Thanks for contributing NB. As long as we are all having a Rad time riding and sharing our experiences, there shouldn't be any problem if we disagree on the details. Cheers.


Agreed! Great thread w/ lots of good feedback/info. My summer wheels are being built up right now by Chad at Red Barn. Ended up going with i35s instead of i45s on my 29 wheels, so I can go + and also scale it back to 2.3s/2.4s with no issues. Chupacabras on order. Bumping the Bluto to 120mm. Should be a sh**ton of fun this summer!


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Let us know how you like that combo MSH!! 


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Has anyone tried 27.5 x 3 rear and 29x 3 front. 
I am trying to keep the geometry close to stock. I don't think I want to put 29+ on rear to raise the stand over. However I would not mind to get the BB up a hair from stock set up. 
Would 27.5+ rear and 29+ front accomplish this? 


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Yes. That's how I'm running mine. 

Steering is a bit floppy but manageable, and I quite like how the bike rides. BB still feels low to me, but I've really worked on technique and minimized pedal strikes using half strokes and timing cadence.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

RideMN said:


> Has anyone tried 27.5 x 3 rear and 29x 3 front.
> 
> A 27.5x3.8 is the same outer diameter as 29x3.0. That's what I run on the front with a 27.5x3.0 on the rear.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

rvercoe said:


> RideMN said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone tried 27.5 x 3 rear and 29x 3 front.
> ...


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> That is not correct.


Walt (Waltworks) seems to state otherwise here--->The Fat+Plus+Skinny do-it-all FAQ

_"-Want even bigger wheels/more volume? *No problem, 26×4.8-5″ tires are about 760-770mm diameter. That's about the same as a 27.5×3.8″ (Bontrager Hodag) or a 29×3″ plus tire (ie Knard, Chupacabra, etc). *So again, 3 wheel sizes/tire sizes will fit the frame without causing problems with handling..."_


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Thanks for the pic Shinkers! Looks sweet. 
Also, thanks for answering all my wheel questions guys. I need as much info as possible because I really want to get this right the first time. I will not be able to float another wheel build if this one does not work for me!


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

rvercoe said:


> RideMN said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone tried 27.5 x 3 rear and 29x 3 front.
> ...


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

That is not correct.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps I should be more specific considering NB's terse reply:

27.5 x 3.8= 770 mm outer diameter. As measured on a WTB 27.5 Scraper rim 
(45mm internal width) with a Maxxis Minion FBF 3.8 tire at 10psi. I have 
personally been riding this set-up for a month now and took the outer 
diameter measurement again this morning to confirm my measurements.

29 x 3.0= 768 mm outer diameter. As measured on a 35mm (outer width) rim 
with a Bontrager Chupacabra 3.0 tire (same outer diameter measured for 
Surly Knard 3.0 and Vee Tire Trax Fatty 3.25). Here is the source for these 
measurements: https://fat-bike.com/2014/10/product-spotlight-bontrager-
chupacabra-29x3-0/

So, I will admit that I was not specific enough in my prior statement that 27.5x3.8 is the same outer diameter as a 29x3.0. The 27.5x3.8 is in fact 2mm larger to be exact. I figured even NB would allow +/- 2mm for discussion sake.

Either way let us know what you decide and enjoy the ride!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

RideMN said:


> Has anyone tried 27.5 x 3 rear and 29x 3 front.
> I am trying to keep the geometry close to stock. I don't think I want to put 29+ on rear to raise the stand over. However I would not mind to get the BB up a hair from stock set up.
> Would 27.5+ rear and 29+ front accomplish this?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


First of all, what size wheels and tires are you currently running? If you're running 26x4.8ish tires, then 29+ or 27.5x3.8(really 3.5) will be close to the same diameter and keep your geometry very close to stock. If you are running 26x4.0ish, then yes, 29+ will be taller. I don't like the idea of running 29+ front and 27+ rear, as it will mess with your angles and change the handling.

How about 29+ front and 27.5x3.8 rear? that might make a fun combo! Or just stick with the same size front and rear. If you think 29x3.0 will be too big, there is also 29x2.6, and there's also 29x2.8 tires coming soon.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

rvercoe said:


> 27.5 x 3.8= 770 mm outer diameter. As measured on a WTB 27.5 Scraper rim
> (45mm internal width) with a Maxxis Minion FBF 3.8 tire at 10psi. I have
> personally been riding this set-up for a month now and took the outer
> diameter measurement again this morning to confirm my measurements.


Interesting numbers you have there, as every other person is getting about 20mm smaller outer diameter with similar combos (with Hodag and Minion FBF on 45-50mm rims).


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

nitrousjunky said:


> Interesting numbers you have there, as every other person is getting about 20mm smaller outer diameter with similar combos (with Hodag and Minion FBF).


Hi Nitrous,
Yes, One thing to consider is that I find getting into plus and fat ranges that the tires do actually have a bit more 'stretch' after being mounted and settled into their own shape for a period of time. Especially after running them tubeless for a few weeks.
The other is that the rim width can make a significant difference. That's why I always include the internal width rim measurement so as to account for that factor when folks are comparing wheel/tire combos. 
The third variable is of course the considerable range, or shall we say liberty, that the tire manufacturers take in claimed tire size and actual size.

Overall though, I would corroborate the Walt Works blog provided by MSH that the range is usually within the 760-770mm range.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

i have FBF 27.5x3.8 on 65mm external nextie rim so about 59mm internal?) and 2x hodags on 52mm external/45mm internal nexties and they are both ~750mm in diamter? perhaps a smidge under - this is akin to 29x2.4 really....

i have a few chupas, minion fbf and chronicle 29x3" and they are all in the 765mm diameter ish bracket

my flowbeist 26x4.5 is within a coupel mm of the hodag 27.5.

the barbigazi 27.5 i have is MASSIVE 770mm diameter.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

nitrousjunky said:


> Interesting numbers you have there, as every other person is getting about 20mm smaller outer diameter with similar combos (with Hodag and Minion FBF on 45-50mm rims).


That is correct.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

[QUOTE=dRjOn

Thanks for the numbers dRjOn. I'll have to re-check my FBF measurements when I get home.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

27.5 x 3 Spec Purg 720mm, 42mm OD rim
27.5 x 3.8 Minion 735mm, 50mm OD rim 
26 x 4.8 Minion 740mm, 65mm OD rim
29 x 3 Minion 765mm, 50mm OD rim

YMMV


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> 27.5 x 3 Spec Purg 720mm, 42mm OD rim
> 27.5 x 3.8 Minion 735mm, 50mm OD rim
> 26 x 4.8 Minion 740mm, 65mm OD rim
> 29 x 3 Minion 765mm, 50mm OD rim
> ...


Wow, it is fascinating to see the range of variation in actual size in these plus and fat tires. I remeasured my 27.5 x 3.8 Minion on a 50mm OD rim and got closer to 760mm (rather than 770), but still much larger than NB's at 735.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I think it would be really helpful to know what the tire pressure is when measuring, as that will make a big difference. Are you guys measuring at 30 psi, or at riding pressure, like 5 to 10 PSI? Also, new tires will be smaller than used tires that have stretched. I have a couple of these sizes but have never measured overall diameter, maybe I'll have to get my own measurements.


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

Seems to me the Wozo ETT seems really really really long.

Small seems like a medium, medium like a large, and so on.

Is this correct?

I ride a Medium 9Zero7 which has a 602mm ETT and I wouldn't want a 628mm on the Wozo which would put me on a small at 599.

But hey I could have that WC XC racer seat height look


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bikeny said:


> I think it would be really helpful to know what the tire pressure is when measuring, as that will make a big difference. Are you guys measuring at 30 psi, or at riding pressure, like 5 to 10 PSI? Also, new tires will be smaller than used tires that have stretched. I have a couple of these sizes but have never measured overall diameter, maybe I'll have to get my own measurements.


Not 30psi, typically 12-14 psi on the skinny tire, <10psi on the 4" tires, and 4-6psi on the fat tires.

@rvercoe: you need to check that measurement on the 3.8 Minion, ain't no way it's that tall. The 27.5 x 3.8 Minion and 26 x 4.8 Minion are very close to the same size, which is why they are a good two wheel combo.

29 x 3 are the tallest tires by far, which is part of the reason it's so hard to design a bike that can share wheels with this size, and design for a short chainstay.

For example, I can run 26 x 4.8 or 27.5 x 3.8 with my Wozo drops slammed (shortest), but when I switch to 29+ I don't have enough clearance so move the drops back ~ 10mm.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I measured my 27.5 Hodag, mounted on a Nextie 65mm outside width rim at 750mm, at around 8 psi.

Nurse Ben: the 27.5x4.5 tires are even taller than 29+ I believe. I have a set mounted on Jackalop rims, but can't measure them right now as they are in VT and I'm in NY. I will post up measurements of my 29x3.25 tires, they are huge!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bikeny said:


> I measured my 27.5 Hodag, mounted on a Nextie 65mm outside width rim at 750mm, at around 8 psi.
> 
> Nurse Ben: the 27.5x4.5 tires are even taller than 29+ I believe. I have a set mounted on Jackalop rims, but can't measure them right now as they are in VT and I'm in NY. I will post up measurements of my 29x3.25 tires, they are huge!


Possibly, don't have either to compare.

Honestly, I find the 29+ to be to much tire/wheel for anything tight, it's just to much wheel to finesse.

They are great for going fast and straight through gnar.

I used to ride a 36er muni, it was super fun, fast and flowy xc riding was a hoot, and I could make it handle techy stuff, but there is a point at which bigger is not better.

I'm in the process of rebuilding my 29" wheels as 27.5, that way I have set of 3.8 and 2.8, as well as 26 x 4.8 for winter.

The ride with the Mastodon EXT 120mm travel fork is exceptional.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Hey NB,
How is the 2.8 set-up working for ya? 
I am asking because I am going to install an Angleset headset w/ the external lower bearing cup next week in hopes that it gives me that additional 10-14mm lift so that I can perhaps run a 3.0 up front and still have the BB clearance I need. I am really enjoying my current set-up with 3.0 x 3.8 and a 120mm fork as far as BB height and HA goes for clearance and handling on technical terrain. I call that me "funduro" set-up as it is a ripper and bombproof, but it would be nice to go a bit skinnier up front for full X-C applications such as our local summer race series. 
Have you tried an angleset on the Wozo?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

rvercoe said:


> Hey NB,
> How is the 2.8 set-up working for ya?
> I am asking because I am going to install an Angleset headset w/ the external lower bearing cup next week in hopes that it gives me that additional 10-14mm lift so that I can perhaps run a 3.0 up front and still have the BB clearance I need. I am really enjoying my current set-up with 3.0 x 3.8 and a 120mm fork as far as BB height and HA goes for clearance and handling on technical terrain. I call that me "funduro" set-up as it is a ripper and bombproof, but it would be nice to go a bit skinnier up front for full X-C applications such as our local summer race series.
> Have you tried an angleset on the Wozo?


2.8's are not built yet.

Figure on 1/2" drop from 3.8 to 3.0, 1/2" rise from a increasing fork travel to 120mm, so a push from stock. 2.8's are shorter yet, so you'll end up lower by 1/4-1/2", not a lot, but enough. If you're running 175mm crsnks, going to 165mm would improve clearance.

Anglesets work fine, you get the increased height from the external cup, but they're heavy and not as solid as a fixed headset... too bad you can't just buy an external lower cup.

It'd be a bettet investment to soend the $150 angleset money on a 120mm Ext Mastodon, which will add ~20mm bb height, give you a better ride, you'll have the ability to lower or raise the fork using a shock pump, and you'll have the bb height to run 2.8-3.

I did all this stuff with my previous fat bikes, multiple wheelsets and tires sizes, angleset, varying fork length, etc. .. 2.8-3 is the ticket for summer riding.i hzve abplus bike, it's my go to when it's dry.
.


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## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

*Wozo great*

Just upgraded my fork removed the Bluto and put on a Lauf Carbonara. Bike now weighs 30.4 pounds!! Not bad more a aluminum fat bike!!


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

That's sweet^^^


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I "may" be selling my Wozo frame, sz Large. 

It'll be packaged with an Easton 150mm dropper, RF BB, CC Headset, and a Bluto 120mm RC2.

Frame, fork, HS, BB, and dropper are in excellent condition.

I love this frame, but no worries, it's being replaced with a Lenz Fatillac.

Edit: I won't know until my Fatillac frame turns up. I'll post a formal ad when it's time.

Thanks


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> I may be selling my Wozo frame, sz Large.
> 
> It'll be packaged with an Easton 150mm dropper, RF BB, CC Headset, and a Bluto 120mm RC2.
> 
> ...


How much?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

How much ya got? 

I'm mostly putting out a feeler, not in a hurry, still need to receive the Fatillac frame, build it, and see what tire combos will fit, but figure $400-450 frame, $400 fork, $300 dropper, $75 BB/HS... ~ $1150-1200. I may end parting it out, though it'd be less irritating to sell it as listed.



ChargeCookerMaxi said:


> How much?


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> How much ya got?
> 
> I'm mostly putting out a feeler, not in a hurry, still need to receive the Fatillac frame, build it, and see what tire combos will fit, but figure $400-450 frame, $400 fork, $300 dropper, $75 BB/HS... ~ $1150-1200. I may end parting it out, though it'd be less irritating to sell it as listed.


Sweet!

Somebody buy my ICT frame so I can get my butt on a Wozo! I need some short chainstays!


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## nathanr (Jul 6, 2014)

Is there a medium frame for sale?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

nathanr said:


> Is there a medium frame for sale?


https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2103592/

Good luck getting a frame. I had to go to Canada to get my frames and the frames I got were apparently not frames designed to be sold so much as warranty replacement overstock.

May check around with a Canadian Kona dealer, see what they have in the system.

Maybe Kona will seel frame only this year?

Great


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## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

2018 Wozo colorway spotted

Not bad


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Stopbreakindown said:


> 2018 Wozo colorway spotted
> 
> Not bad
> 
> View attachment 1150254


Kinda like it too.


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## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

nitrousjunky said:


> Kinda like it too.


If Kona did a threaded BB on this version I could overlook it being aluminium and order one. Sigh


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Stopbreakindown said:


> If Kona did a threaded BB on this version I could overlook it being aluminium and order one. Sigh


It's not a deal breaker. Just get one of those fancy bolt on bb's. I have an RF PF bb, works fine, nice and quiet.

Anyone know if the 2018 geo changed?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

nitrousjunky said:


> Kinda like it too.


Is that the shop in Truckee?


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Love that color combo. Anything change other then color and tires?? 


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## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

Just got of the phone with my dealer, frame only is an option for 2018!

Better snatch one up b4 they sell out

$699 w/ maxle

Medium or Large

The medium numbers line up with my Large Canfield Epo that I am very comfy on, but shop says Large for sure, hmmmm


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

That is great news, I love the Wozo and was really bummed that they didn't make it available as anything but a complete.

I had a medium and a large frame, I built the medium first and I could have rode it, but the bars were in my knees with a 50mm stem and my feet were a little too touchy with the front wheel. The upside of a Medium frame is standover is waaay better and I could have run a longer dropper (175mm vs the 150mm I have now).

I've been ridding the large frame as a 29+, 27.5 x 3.8, 27.5 x 2.8, 26 x 4.8. The bb on the Wozo is a bit low even with a Mastodon 120 EXT. I think it rides best as a 27.5 x 3.8, which is how I ride it most of the time.

My large is running a 35mm stem, seat is about center on the fore/aft adjustment.

If I was going to be using it more as a jump bike, kinda like a mini BMX, then I'd go with a medium. For winter use and bikepacking I'll stick with a large.

I'm 6', 32" inseam, sz 13 flippers.

Edit: Confirmed with Kona Central, frames are available, first come, no changes other than color.



Stopbreakindown said:


> Just got of the phone with my dealer, frame only is an option for 2018!
> 
> Better snatch one up b4 they sell out
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Anyone want to trade their medium green 2017 Wozo frame for my large green 2017 Wozo frame?

Now that I have the Fatillac, I'm considering downsizing my Wozo so it's more of a play bike

I don't like the 2018 Wozo in blue.

Anyone?


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Interesting, another Fatillac owner. Selling my Fatillac frame or possibly complete build very soon. Such an incredibly capable bike with 26 fat or 27.5+

Planning to buy a Wozo frame, trying to decide Medium or Large based on this thread's recommendation. 5'10.5" with regular proportions, leaning towards Medium.



Nurse Ben said:


> Anyone want to trade their medium green 2017 Wozo frame for my large green 2017 Wozo frame?
> 
> Now that I have the Fatillac, I'm considering downsizing my Wozo so it's more of a play bike
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

PCT said:


> Interesting, another Fatillac owner. Selling my Fatillac frame or possibly complete build very soon. Such an incredibly capable bike with 26 fat or 27.5+
> 
> Planning to buy a Wozo frame, trying to decide Medium or Large based on this thread's recommendation. 5'10.5" with regular proportions, leaning towards Medium.


Medium, large will neuter you 

The large is long and has a fairly high standover. My large fits fine, but I want to use it for play, so I need better standover and a shorter reach.

The Wozo is a great frame I'm going to run a longer dropper (175mm if it fits), an angleset -1.0 or -1.5, 130-140mm Manitou STD.

Do you have one of Mike's Fatillac or did you get one direct?

Why selling?

My Minion 4.8 on LM 65mm are a tad too wide to fit the Fatillac, so I'm looking at a JJ 4.4, what's the widest 26" tire you've run?


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Good to hear, standover is important. Glad to hear a Medium Wozo is similar in fit to a Large Epo - I have (and am currently selling) a Large Epo. Planning to order a Medium Wozo frame this week.

Have a Fox 34 140 Boost Plus that I might try to drop down to 120. Fits a Flowbeist 4.6 on Marge Lite with a little clearance. And on deck is a Supermax 130 which also fits a 4.6, has a long offset but that isn't a detriment for snow riding.

Bought my Fatillac frame direct from Devin. Rear clearance of those frames varies depending on date of manufacture, later _typically_ have better clearance. Mine was one of the first but still has decent room for a 4.0 Van Helga. A 4.4 JJ *might* fit.

Would prefer not to sell such a capable fatbike as the Fatillac. Excellent for technical snow riding. Great with 27.5+ for summer riding. Folks say it is very good with 27.5x3.8 also. However, I just started a new Switchblade which is awesome for 3-season riding and (possibly) fat front for snow. I believe an aggressive hardtail fatbike like the Wozo is a better complement to my stable.



Nurse Ben said:


> Medium, large will neuter you
> 
> The large is long and has a fairly high standover. My large fits fine, but I want to use it for play, so I need better standover and a shorter reach.
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

PCT said:


> Good to hear, standover is important. Glad to hear a Medium Wozo is similar in fit to a Large Epo - I have (and am currently selling) a Large Epo. Planning to order a Medium Wozo frame this week.
> 
> Have a Fox 34 140 Boost Plus that I might try to drop down to 120. Fits a Flowbeist 4.6 on Marge Lite with a little clearance. And on deck is a Supermax 130 which also fits a 4.6, has a long offset but that isn't a detriment for snow riding.
> 
> ...


Gotcha, some changes along the way, mine fits a Minion 3.8 just right. I'd like to see an upgraded swingarm, needs a little width at the seat stays to take a 4.8 Minion, would need some length to run anything taller.

I'm not sure it's worth going down to a JJ 4.4 just so the two bikes can share all three wheels.

I'm considering a 27.5 x 60mm rim with a 4.5 to replace the 26" wheel, this would be only for the Wozo.

Do you run a dropper on your Fatillac? Tight fit, insertion is only 160mm, so I got just enough for a 125mm internal post.


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

PCT said:


> Interesting, another Fatillac owner. Selling my Fatillac frame or possibly complete build very soon. Such an incredibly capable bike with 26 fat or 27.5+
> 
> Planning to buy a Wozo frame, trying to decide Medium or Large based on this thread's recommendation. 5'10.5" with regular proportions, leaning towards Medium.


Yeah, I am 5'10.5. I started with a large frame and the stand over height put the top tube right against the fellas. My lbs let me swap for a medium which was much better and gave me the clearance to go to 120 mm fork with my summer wheels. That's just my experience. Awesome bike though!

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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

I would be quite surprised if the Fatillac chainstays/yoke could be redesigned to fit a 4.8 Minion. Maybe a 4.6 Dunderbeist. The VanHelga 4.0 is an excellent snow tire with far superior traction to the Jumbo Jim. I might consider the JJ for fast groomed snow racing but always want max grip for trail riding.

Like you said, as a dropper for the Fatillac, 125mm is probably max. Gravity Dropper was my best choice for that seatpost. It's fugly but the mechanical works in all conditions, unlike most hydraulics.

For the Wozo, in addition to 65mm Marge Lites, I will be running 50mm Scrapers. Should be fine for 27.5x3.8 and maybe Gnarwhal front. I would imagine a 27.5 60mm rim would be good for anything 3.0-4.5" Interested to hear how the Wozo rides with 27.5x3.8 Minions in various conditions.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I mostly ride the Wozo with 3.8 Minions, shorter wheels drop the bb too much. It rides fine with plus wheels, but I didn't like 29+ that much.

I rode the Wozo this morning, big climb on sand and rock, nice dowhnill run through a wash, no complaints, great bike.

I'll probably add an angleset and reset the fork to an STD 130mm, maybe get a medium frame depending on how it rides.

I'm running Next SL.170mm Cranks, got Eagle GX 165mm on order for the Fatillac, will probably get shorter Cranks for the Wozo as well.


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## goose8 (Feb 24, 2007)

Nurse Ben-
I don't have a trade, but I'd be interested in the large frame if you decide to sell it.



Nurse Ben said:


> Anyone want to trade their medium green 2017 Wozo frame for my large green 2017 Wozo frame?
> 
> Now that I have the Fatillac, I'm considering downsizing my Wozo so it's more of a play bike
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ordering a medium frame. Once it arrives I need to finish the Fatillac build, start the Wozo rebuild, see if I can run a longer post, at which point I'll price it out.

Definitiely selling the large frame, 120mm Bluto fork, CC headset, and maybe an Easton 150mm dropper.

I've got a bunch of folks who want to buy it, so let's wait until I have all the particulars worked out and I can put a price to the kit. I will not be interested in breaking it down further, there are too many people willing to buy it as a partial complete.

FYI, frame only is available from Kona direct.



goose8 said:


> Nurse Ben


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

The Fatillac sounds really cool Ben!

I am really loving the Wozo so I would encourage someone to pick up Ben's when it is up for sale! I have been riding all the same jumps and steep trails as my Giant Reign with the wozo and having a blast.

Untitled by avyoung, on Flickr


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## goose8 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sounds good! I live close to the Canadian border so I might just get one directly. The price is right but it looks like it's going to be challenging to find a large. 

Nice build GspotRider! Glad to hear it's capable of riding such a variety of trails.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I rode mine last weekend on the TRT, Tahoe Meadows to Marlett. Typically I ride an FS for the tech, jumping, etc.. but I took the Wozo because my kids were on hardtails.

It was such a hoot, jumping on the Wozo is like riding a big DJ, so agile and fun, smooths out the little hits, takes drops like a big bike, so easy to manual.

I'm getting a medium so I can reduce the bulk/wheelbase for more agility and so I can run a 175mm dropper.

I do wish they'd slacked out the HA and added another 10mm to the chainstay yoke width, but no worries, it's a great bike and very adaptable. I'll probably add an Anglset once I get the Mastodon reduced, which will net me about a 67deg HA with 130mm travel and the 10mm external lower cup.

My Fatillac is getting a -10 deg Angleset plus 150mm travel, so it'll be about 66 deg HA.



GspotRider said:


> I am really loving the Wozo so I would encourage someone to pick up Ben's when it is up for sale! I have been riding all the same jumps and steep trails as my Giant Reign with the wozo and having a blast.


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## yeti187 (Nov 3, 2005)

Does anyone have measurements on the bottom bracket and chain line? The kona website is very lacking in technical information or contact information for them. I'm ordering parts and had planned on running regular width race face turbines thinking it was a BB92 but the kona site lists PF92 (which to my understanding is not an actual standard) and in another post someone said the BB shell width measured 100mm. If this does take a regular width crank set, are boost chain rings working OK with the chain line? If it's some fat/ mid-fat width crank, are people having luck with regular offset chain rings?

Can someone confirm the headset is a ZS44/ ZS56?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Using an RF Turbine, RF PF92 BB (press fit), works fine, from memory a 2mm spacer on drive side, 3mm spacer on non drive side, chain ring with 6mm offset works.

RF Next SL fit is better, lower q, improved chain line, but more $$.

It is supposedly a ZS44/ZS56, I have an Angleset on order in that size. Haven't measured it recently... but that's what I remember.



yeti187 said:


> Does anyone have measurements on the bottom bracket and chain line? The kona website is very lacking in technical information or contact information for them. I'm ordering parts and had planned on running regular width race face turbines thinking it was a BB92 but the kona site lists PF92 (which to my understanding is not an actual standard) and in another post someone said the BB shell width measured 100mm. If this does take a regular width crank set, are boost chain rings working OK with the chain line? If it's some fat/ mid


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Got my 2018 Kona Wozo medium frame in a lovely shade of pastel blue. OMFG, who's idea was it to paint the Wozo this color? Seriously, I'm thinking about powder coating the frame as it is waaay fugly!

Anyway, I'm piecing together the frame swap, once it's done I'll put up a formal list and price, so far it's looking like 2017 Large Wozo frame, RF 150mm dropper with Wolf Tooth lefty lever, Bluto RT3 120mm, CC Headset.

I would much prefer selling the parts and frame together, so offers for the entire kit are preferred. Frame is in good shape, no dents or gauges, a comple small paint chips. Bluto has very few miles on it, winter use only. Dropper is in great shape, lever is new.


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## rockpilex (Jul 1, 2006)

Okay I've read through this thread and it appears that some of y'all (NurseBen) are running 4.8's on 65 mm rims out back. Was wondering how wide a Minnion 4.8 is mounted on 65 mm rim tubed or tubless and at what psi typically.


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Hey NB. What length stem you plan to run on your medium wozo? 
Just curious. I have a 50mm stem now and thinking about going back to the stock size. 


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

On a Large Wozo I have a 35mm, so I'll probably start with a 50mm, maybe a 60mm, just depends on how it feels riding. I tend to work on butt and leg position relative to the bb, then work from there.

Lately I'm liking things a little less stretched out due to neck pain.

What's the stock size?



RideMN said:


> Hey NB. What length stem you plan to run on your medium wozo?
> Just curious. I have a 50mm stem now and thinking about going back to the stock size.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Frame swap is complete, baby blue:









Going with a 45mm stem for now, may bump to a 60mm.

175mm dropper was a no go, insert and extension between a 175mm and a 150mm we're too close to be worth the cost and weight.

Sadly, the internal angleset was designed around a 1 1/8" steerer, so my only option is an external cup angleset which adds 10mm of A-C.

Waiting on parts for the fork conversion from an EXT to an STD, planning to run 130-140mm.

So, I got a used but not abused Kona Wozo size large frame, typical cable and tire rub marks, no dents. Also have a current model, barely used Bluto RC3 120mm fork with star nut and CC race. No headset, no spare parts, just a bare frame and the fork.

A new Wozo frame is $700 plus tax from your local Kona dealer. Blutos RC3 goes for $600 or so. I'd like to get 1k for the pair delivered in the Continental USA.

PM to make a deal.


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Looks good man!! 


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## Estuche (Apr 18, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm running RF Next SL Cinch 170mm carbon cranks they are slightly narrower than the RF Turbine (~6mm per side), chainstay clearance is 9-10mm. You can check the RF sie to see the q factors.
> 
> Not sure if any crank set will have a lower q, the Next SL is a pretty flat crank arm.
> 
> Something I've considered is cutting the BB down to fit an 83mm spindle. This mod would work with the Next SL cranks, RF has an 83mm spindle. Downside is 5" tire clearance would require a chainring swap; only an issue in the deepest of winter.


This would be really neat, but is it really possible? To safely reduce the shell of an aluminum frame?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Sure, it's just metal, if you have a jig to make the cut square. Walt at Waltworks did one for a client, I think it was steel.

I'm not cutting mine down, I'd sooner get Walt to build me a custom frame, then the HTA/STA and post insertion would be improved.



Estuche said:


> This would be really neat, but is it really possible? To safely reduce the shell of an aluminum frame?


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

I got to see a Wozo in person today. Helped a buddy install the bottom bracket and headset on his '17 Wozo XL. I really like the matte blue color! :thumbsup:

Also got to see a Manitou Mastadon in person as well... that's a burly fat fork! The tire clearance is HUGE!

120 Mastadon fits great on his XL Wozo with a standard headset. Looks to be a killer setup!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

A Mastodon also fit great on a Large frame, but on my Medium frame there is only ~2mm of clearance, so I suspect a Small frame would not clear; which was suggesed by another poster.

It really is a big fork, but it is also a great fork, so I suppose the frame builders will need to make adjustments.

I do wish that Manitou would build a B+/B Fat fork, same internals and stanchions, but with a narrower crown, enough clearance for 3-4" tires, could double as a 29+ fork.



06HokieMTB said:


> I got to see a Wozo in person today. Helped a buddy install the bottom bracket and headset on his '17 Wozo XL. I really like the matte blue color! :thumbsup:
> 
> Also got to see a Manitou Mastadon in person as well... that's a burly fat fork! The tire clearance is HUGE!
> 
> 120 Mastadon fits great on his XL Wozo with a standard headset. Looks to be a killer setup!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No offers on my Large Wozo Frame and Bluto 120mm fork?

Last call before I put it on Pink Bike...

Sizing, yes, the big question:

I'm 6', 32" inseam, normal proportions. Honestly, I loved the fit of my Large Wozo, ran it with a Bluto 120, then a Mastodon EXT 120, 170mm cranks, 40mm stem, 150mm dropper. 

So why change? 

Well, first off I thought I could run a 175mm dropper. Didn't fit.
Secondly I wanted a more agile bike for fat bike trials, so a lower standover and shorter wheelbase. Standover is better by an inch, but not as noticeable as I'd hoped. The wheelbase is shorter by an inch and the bike does feel tighter and more agile at low speeds. At high speeds I find the bike to be a little less stable than the larger frame.

I'm now running my Medium Wozo with a Mastodon EXT 120, 170mm cranks, 60mm stem, 150mm dropper. I plan to change the fork to an STD which will reduce the A-C by 20mm. I will be adding an Angleset which will raise A-C 10mm. Finally I'm swapping to 165mm cranks.

At my size I could go either way on the frame size. I rode the large for a year, now I'll ride the medium. I don't know that there is a perfect size when you're on the size fence. If I was a couple inches shorter I would definitely ride a medium. If I was a couple inches taller I would definitely ride a large. My son is 6'5" and when he rode my Large Wozo he said it fit okay; I'd probably put him on an XL if I built him a Wozo, but he's really tall.

The Wozo is an inexpensive, well designed fat bike with adjustable drops, solid geo, and excellent performance. It's one of the best fat bikes available.


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Excited to start building my Wozo. Mastodon Pro 120, 26-fat and 27.5+/fat wheelsets.

Frame Bag: Anyone know what brand/style/size fits a medium Wozo best?


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

06HokieMTB said:


> 120 Mastadon fits great on his XL Wozo with a standard headset. Looks to be a killer setup!


BTW: it was the standard Mastadon 120 fork


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

Those running 29+, how much room in the sliders is there to adjust for Singlespeed use? Thanks.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Look a my picture, blue bike, frames are already available.

FYI, Kona is going direct, dealers are not pleased.



MSH said:


> Anyone have an update when the next run of Wozo's is supposed to be available? I know Nurse Ben mentioned Spring 2017, but was wondering if anyone had anything more specific? I sent an email to Kona, as well as, have a local dealer here in Denver checking but haven't heard back.


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Look a my picture, blue bike, frames are already available.
> 
> FYI, Kona is going direct, dealers are not pleased.


Yeah MSH, I am in the Denver area too. Spoke with Pedal Pushers in Golden about 4 weeks ago and they said they could get frames, that may have changed since. Ended up ordering online from Bikeman, they are really nice folks and should have some in stock.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Bluebeat007 said:


> Those running 29+, how much room in the sliders is there to adjust for Singlespeed use? Thanks.


Plenty of room with a Minion 29 +, the tire is rideable slammed, but not in the mud. You have a big 1/2" for adjustment.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> Look a my picture, blue bike, frames are already available.
> 
> FYI, Kona is going direct, dealers are not pleased.


My post you are referencing is from January when it was the 2017 green. I bought a complete bike a couple days after that post, but thanks anyways


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

MSH said:


> My post you are referencing is from January when it was the 2017 green. I bought a complete bike a couple days after that post, but thanks anyways


And no pics?


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> And no pics?


Post 201 page 3 from ride in Crested Butte. Pretty much stock build(other than upgrading the anemic stock brakes with some XT's, Lev dropper, 50mm stem, & i35 to run 29+), so nothing exciting enough to post more than the front end in that pic


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Still looking to sell my 2017 Large Wozo frame AND Bluto RC3 1200mm fork.

I will seperate if need be, but right now I'd like to sell them as a package.

Make me an offer, consider the cost of shipping in the deal, some places (Alaska) are pricey.

A new Kona Wozo frame is $800 plus tax.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Anybody with a new BLUE Wozo, I want to buy your stock saddle!

Send me a PM!


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Installing a RaceFace NextSL cinch crankset. Can anyone recommend the proper spacer configuration for best chainline?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I think the spacers are 2mm: two spacers non drive, one spacer drive. 6mm offset chainring (boost)



PCT said:


> Installing a RaceFace NextSL cinch crankset. Can anyone recommend the proper spacer configuration for best chainline?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Looks like the 2018 frames are going quick, the time to get one is now, otherwise it'll be another season on a Farley or some other boat anchor ...

I can package the frame with a Bluto RC3 120mm fork. Will also sell any of the above seperately. (Mastodon is sold).

PM with questions, offers, etc.

The snow is coming!


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## nathanr (Jul 6, 2014)

Has the BB changed from 2017 to 2018. Kona webpage states PF92 for one and PF121 for the other. Trying to figure if I can reuse either RF Turbine or Sram GXP cranks on the wozo frame and if so which BB I'd need.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No change. I have both years, switched parts from a 2017 to a 2018, no issues.

Of course the baby blue is ugly, but that's just my opinion 



nathanr said:


> Has the BB changed from 2017 to 2018. Kona webpage states PF92 for one and PF121 for the other. Trying to figure if I can reuse either RF Turbine or Sram GXP cranks on the wozo frame and if so which BB I'd need.


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## nathanr (Jul 6, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> No change. I have both years, switched parts from a 2017 to a 2018, no issues.
> 
> Of course the baby blue is ugly, but that's just my opinion


Do you know the BB width?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

and she said: " it's so huge!"









Barbe next to some puny Minion 3.8s









Clearance is fair, 3/8", plenty for snow and sand, which is my go to for these wheels









Bontragger Barbe 27.5 x 4.5 on Jackalopes, DT 350 hubs with 54t poe.

Thanks to Mikesee for an amazing set of wheels!

To fit these lovelies I had move the drops all the way back. These are some really tall wheels. Width is about the same as a 4.8 Minion on Large Marge rims, but height is closer to a 29+.

They ride soooo big, reminds me of my first time on a fat bike. I'm really glad I went down to a medium frame because now I have the standover for monster tires.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I swapped the Mastodon EXT Pro for an STD Pro, adjusted the spacers to 140mm, rode it at 140mm, then aired down to 130mm.

What a great ride, I actually liked the 140mm set up best, did not feel too tall; of course the STD at 140mm is the same as the EXT at 120mm 

Today the Hodags got some trail time, replacing the Minions 3.8. I didn't notice any loss of traction, but the weight loss was obvious.

Still waiting on 165mm GX Eagle Fat4 to come back into stock, then I'll be ready for Winter.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

nathanr said:


> Do you know the BB width?


121.5. PF92 and PF121 are essentially the same thing. 41mm cups with the last number designating shell width. They probably listed 92 last year since SRAM seems to be the only one actually using PF121 in their product descriptions.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that the 2018 Wozo is half a degree slacker?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Shinkers said:


> 121.5. PF92 and PF121 are essentially the same thing. 41mm cups with the last number designating shell width. They probably listed 92 last year since SRAM seems to be the only one actually using PF121 in their product descriptions.
> 
> Has anyone mentioned the fact that the 2018 Wozo is half a degree slacker?


I don't think it's slacker, the frames are identical; got both years in my garage. Kona rep said no changes.

They made a mistake or they corrected for some variable like tires or suspension.

Of course I'm running 130-140mm, so mine is fairly slack; rides great slack


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Rides great with Fox 34 Boost Plus set at 140mm. Lots of room for 26x4.0. Gonna try 27.5x3.8 next, then maybe 29+. And a Mastodon Pro 120 on deck for winter. Very fun bike.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Interesting. I'm going strictly off of the geometry charts from both years. I may have to check with my rep because now I'm curious. 

I put a Fox 140 on my new frame running 29+ exclusively. Couldn't be happier.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Shinkers said:


> Has anyone mentioned the fact that the 2018 Wozo is half a degree slacker?


It's because on the '17 they are calculating geom with a 511mm A2C on fork length and on the '18 they are using 521mm, so yeah same geom at the end of the day


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*STD version limitations.*



Nurse Ben said:


> I swapped the Mastodon EXT Pro for an STD Pro, adjusted the spacers to 140mm, rode it at 140mm, then aired down to 130mm.


NB, I imagine that the STD version will not handle the 27.5x4.5 BGazis?
thanks, R


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Who has put Minion 27.5 x 3.8 FBF/FBR on Scraper 50mm rims? Fit is tiiiight, took me like an hour to get one on. Bead won't set well, and it'd be a nightmare changing a flat on the trail. IIRC the Hodags had a similar tight fit. Anyone have relevant experiences or advice?


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*FBF/FBR on 50s*

I have that exact set-up and love it right now for shoulder season and big gnar rides. In my case, I would have to say that the 'fit' of the FBF/FBRs on the Scraper 50s is one of the things I have liked, because I have been able to mount both of them with just my standard floor pump with out a compressor. I did not notice them being particularly challenging to get on or off. Granted, I usually use a lever for the very last bit of install and at the initial removal process. I have swapped them around a couple of times and could really tell the difference between getting the FBF/FBRs to seat compared to the constant challenges and pains I have had to go through to get Schwalbes seated (both Nobby Nics, less so, and especially Rocket Rons). I think that is largely due to the beefy sidewalls of the FBF/FBRs verses the light but very malleable Schwalbe sidewalls.

Perhaps, your production round has a tighter tolerance. I got mine about 2 months ago. I think these would also be the ideal bikepacking tires as well , for when riding with heavier loads and ungroomed terrain. I'm going to try them in some snow conditions this season as well and see how they compare to a 26x4-4.8 set-up. Cheers, R

Here's a current photo with them on:


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

I tried everything to upload the photo right way up, but to no avail.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Fits, but tight, 1/8 of crown clearance. Good enough for me 

I had planned to reduce travel by 10mm, but it's not necessary.



rvercoe said:


> NB, I imagine that the STD version will not handle the 27.5x4.5 BGazis?
> thanks, R


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> Fits, but tight, 1/8 of crown clearance. Good enough for me
> 
> I had planned to reduce travel by 10mm, but it's not necessary.


If you have the 27.5 Barbegazis on there and still have clearance then I'm thinking I may be ok with my 29+ Chupa set up on i35s with the 120 STD for my Wozo. I think the OD on both those tires are near identical (765-770)? I really want to go with the STD vs the EXT to maintain a reasonable A2C and I don't want to change travel from 120 to 110. I've been waiting to hear if others have been successful running the 120STD with Chupas but other than the "the mayor" stating he had 1/2" of clearance in the main Mastodon thread I haven't seen anyone else confirm if the Chupas will fit.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, add a 10mm spacer to limit travel on the STD and you still have 140mm travel. Even with 20mm spacers you have 130mm travel.



MSH said:


> If you have the 27.5 Barbegazis on there and still have clearance then I'm thinking I may be ok with my 29+ Chupa set up on i35s with the 120 STD for my Wozo. I think the OD on both those tires are near identical (765


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

PCT said:


> Rides great with Fox 34 Boost Plus set at 140mm. Lots of room for 26x4.0. Gonna try 27.5x3.8 next, then maybe 29+. And a Mastodon Pro 120 on deck for winter. Very fun bike.
> 
> View attachment 1162516


PCT can you post pics? I tried a Hodag 3.8 on a Duroc 50. It was a no go on my 2018 fox boost 34+ fork.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

MSH said:


> If you have the 27.5 Barbegazis on there and still have clearance then I'm thinking I may be ok with my 29+ Chupa set up on i35s with the 120 STD for my Wozo. I think the OD on both those tires are near identical (765-770)? I really want to go with the STD vs the EXT to maintain a reasonable A2C and I don't want to change travel from 120 to 110. I've been waiting to hear if others have been successful running the 120STD with Chupas but other than the "the mayor" stating he had 1/2" of clearance in the main Mastodon thread I haven't seen anyone else confirm if the Chupas will fit.


It fits, but it's tight, so to be safe you should add a 10mm spacer to limit travel. It will still be capable of being set at the A-C you want, but you won't use all the travel; 140mm will only yield 130mm, etc...

Does this make sense to folks? It seems like there is confusion and I'm not sure why...

The two forks have the same travel, but the EXT is longer in air shaft by 20mm, so the A-C is increased by 20mm. This additional fork length is not reducible.

You can limit compression travel on the STD by adding spacers, this does not increase A-C, but you lose the same amount of travel that you limit.

It's kinda the same thing in the end, but if you don't need an additional 20mm of clearance, then the STD is the better choice.

A 765 barely clears on an STD, so safety consideration would dictate the addition of a 10mm spacer to limit travel. If you want 120mm of travel, you'd set the fork for 130mm travel, so A-C is increased by 10mm.

Remember the shock pump trick to adjust travel/A-C, very simple trick.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> Does this make sense to folks? It seems like there is confusion and I'm not sure why...
> .


It makes complete sense. No confusion here....I get it, but if I can buy the STD and not have to f**k with it out of the box it's preferable, hence my question when you indicated the 27.5 Barbegazis fit fine.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

MSH said:


> It makes complete sense. No confusion here....I get it, but if I can buy the STD and not have to f**k with it out of the box it's preferable, hence my question when you indicated the 27.5 Barbegazis fit fine.


Oh, I understand, taking apart forks is time I don't have. I'd like to the Mastodon come in length options, but it ain't gonna happen at the current price points.

A shop should be able to do it for $50.

I had an EXT, sold it because there is no reason to get one unless you're running the tallest tires AND you want 140-150 travel.

I'm running Barbes with a stock STD set
at 140mm, no limiting spacers. I have a fender which will definitely ground out if I use all the travel, so I'll probably add a 10mm travel limiting spacer. But I'm not in a hurry


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

Where are you guys buying your forks? Was gonna get on from world wide cyclery. Great price with a 20% off discount code but they are out of stock.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mxer said:


> Where are you guys buying your forks? Was gonna get on from world wide cyclery. Great price with a 20% off discount code but they are out of stock.


From them 

Got one a couple weeks ago, great price, fast shipping.


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

mxer said:


> PCT can you post pics? I tried a Hodag 3.8 on a Duroc 50. It was a no go on my 2018 fox boost 34+ fork.


Minion FBF 27.5 x 3.8 on Scraper 50mm rim. Probably not more than 3.5 inches wide. Oodles of clearance on Fox 34 Boost Plus fork. I'd guess about 0.4 inches all around. There are several different SKU's for the Fox forks and it can be confusing...









A few rides in on the B-fat Minions (dry conditions) and from initial impressions I prefer the 26x4.0 Van Helga combo. FBF/FBR on Scrapers is probably lighter and more nimble but has a rounder profile and different rubber compound that affects handling. Further testing required. Honestly I need to air them down and go smash some stuff but the Minions are so tight on the Scrapers it'd take a half hour to change a pinch flat. Maybe swap back in a 27.5x3.0 rear.

Gonna try 29+ next or some mullet combo, wondering if it'd be good for go-fast. Would not want to raise the bb much though.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

PCT said:


> A few rides in on the B-fat Minions (dry conditions) and from initial impressions I prefer the 26x4.0 Van Helga combo. FBF/FBR on Scrapers is probably lighter and more nimble but has a rounder profile and different rubber compound that affects handling.


Depending on what rims you have the Van Helgas on, that might not be the case on weight. The B Minions are heavy!!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I have a set of 27.5 x 3.8 Minions for sale, rear has one sidewall patch that is fine tubeless, front is in great shape. Sell em for a song, send a pm.


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

PCT said:


> Minion FBF 27.5 x 3.8 on Scraper 50mm rim. Probably not more than 3.5 inches wide. Oodles of clearance on Fox 34 Boost Plus fork. I'd guess about 0.4 inches all around. There are several different SKU's for the Fox forks and it can be confusing...
> 
> View attachment 1164465
> 
> ...


I definitely do not have the correct sku! Is your fork a 2018? Which sku is yours? Think i can just purchase the lowers from that sku? Thanks PCT!


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Something like this, I think? https://www.probikesupply.com/produ...tapered-matte-black-51mm-kashima-factory-fork

Mine is from 2016, can't remember where I bought it. Stanchion clearance is massive, I have fit a 4.6 Flowbeist in there. IDK if you could retrofit new lowers in yours, probably would need the proper crown etc.

It's a very capable fork and fits a wide variety of tire sizes. Good down to about 15-20 degrees. Hoping the Mastodon has significantly better cold-weather performance.


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

PCT said:


> Something like this, I think? https://www.probikesupply.com/produ...tapered-matte-black-51mm-kashima-factory-fork
> 
> Mine is from 2016, can't remember where I bought it. Stanchion clearance is massive, I have fit a 4.6 Flowbeist in there. IDK if you could retrofit new lowers in yours, probably would need the proper crown etc.
> 
> It's a very capable fork and fits a wide variety of tire sizes. Good down to about 15-20 degrees. Hoping the Mastodon has significantly better cold-weather performance.


Awesome! Thank you PCT! Actually want to run the Hodag 27.5x3.8 on front of my full suspension plus bike i bought last week.

Been on an upgrade frenzy lately! LOL Bought a leftover 2016 Farley 5. Already have a mastodon 120 comp on the way too for it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

PCT said:


> Something like this, I think? https://www.probikesupply.com/produ...tapered-matte-black-51mm-kashima-factory-fork
> 
> Mine is from 2016, can't remember where I bought it. Stanchion clearance is massive, I have fit a 4.6 Flowbeist in there. IDK if you could retrofit new lowers in yours, probably would need the proper crown etc.
> 
> It's a very capable fork and fits a wide variety of tire sizes. Good down to about 15-20 degrees. Hoping the Mastodon has significantly better cold-weather performance.


Is 140mm the max travel on that fork? I'd like 160mm, any way to get more travel?


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Is 140mm the max travel on that fork? I'd like 160mm, any way to get more travel?


I think you need to step up to a Fox 36 for 160mm travel. The 34 only seems to be available up to 150. This according to there web page on the 34.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mxer said:


> I think you need to step up to a Fox 36 for 160mm travel. The 34 only seems to be available up to 150. This according to there web page on the 34.


Not helpful, won't fit fat tires.


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Not helpful, won't fit fat tires.


Correct! At least you now know the 34 is only available with a 150mm air shaft.

Unless of course i am missing something. You could always reach out to Fox.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The Mastodon is so good, I'd only consider going to a Fox if the travel was greater than 150mm. 

I'd have to rebuild wheels or build boost front wheels to swap between bikes.


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> The Mastodon is so good, I'd only consider going to a Fox if the travel was greater than 150mm.
> 
> I'd have to rebuild wheels or build boost front wheels to swap between bikes.


I hear that. On e of the joys of trying different stuff all the time. I start to think i am done and i wind up starting all over again thinking i can find something better. LOL Love this hobby!

Took a chance and ordered the fox 34 that PCT linked to. Fingers crossed it is the correct one.


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> The Mastodon is so good, I'd only consider going to a Fox if the travel was greater than 150mm.
> 
> I'd have to rebuild wheels or build boost front wheels to swap between bikes.


Nurse Ben, since you have quite a bit of experimentation with mastodon am i correct in thinking my 26x4.7 barbes will fit in the STD model?


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## Estuche (Apr 18, 2010)

*Help me understand geometries*

Moved!


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## Estuche (Apr 18, 2010)

Edit: Already found the answer!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Kona designed for a short chainstay, so they bent the seat tube and used a low profile chainstay yoke. Kona likes long and low geometry, not all consumers like that design. It's not about sizing, it's about fit.

Ventana designs for a more upright riding position, so their bikes are shorter in the front triangle. Ventana chainstays are longer, but not out of the norm for a fat bike. The Gordo has a substantial yoke and a less bent seat post.

Standover matters, so I'd look at that closely when deciding on a frame you cant try first. I typically ride a large frame, but on the Wozo I dropped down from a large to a medium due to standover and reach. The Wozo also has a low bb, so it benefits from taller wheels.

STA matters if you want shorter chainstays and less reach change when dropping your seat. a steeper STA generally leads to a long front end to compensate.

HTA is personal preference, slacker HTA reduces reach and typically leads to a longer front end.

Personally, I like the El Gordo, I owned a Ventana's tandem fat which is based on the El Gordo, Sherwood makes a high quality product. If I was to purchase an El Gordo, it'd be a custom geo, short chainstays, steeper STA, slacker HTA, and maybe a pinion.



Estuche said:


> This might seem silly to y'all experienced builders, but I cannot wrap my head around the fact that brands like Kona can come up with frames like the Wozo with a TT length of 630mm and call it a medium, whereas for example, Ventana has el Gordo with a TT length of 588mm.
> 
> What should I pay attention to? Is it the ST angle, HT length? Is it the fact that the Kona uses a larger diameter tire front vs. back? Please help me understand a bit of frame design.
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Maybe, I have tight clearance on a Barbe 4.5, the 4.7 is taller, but you could probably get by with adding a 10mm spacer; worse case a 20mm spacer. This is the grey area, your choice is your own, I'm just another cubicle jockey 



mxer said:


> Nurse Ben, since you have quite a bit of experimentation with mastodon am i correct in thinking my 26x4.7 barbes will fit in the STD model?


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## Estuche (Apr 18, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> Kona designed for a short chainstay, so they bent the seat tube and used a low profile chainstay yoke. Kona likes long and low geometry, not all consumers like that design. It's not about sizing, it's about fit.
> 
> Ventana designs for a more upright riding position, so their bikes are shorter in the front triangle. Ventana chainstays are longer, but not out of the norm for a fat bike. The Gordo has a substantial yoke and a less bent seat post.
> 
> ...


Thanks, this helps a lot, so if I wanted a more upright position, but still have some of the playfulness of short stays, what would that custom geo look like? In other words, if I wanted to fushion the Wozo and Gordo, could I just add some of the Wozo specs like those you mention (chainstays, ST and HT angles) and keep the rest as is? Or are there other considerations to keep in mind for the perfect hybrid?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I can't tell you what you want, body type, riding position, riding style, terrain, these are all rider specific. I own a Wozo medium and a Fatillac large, the bikes are very different, but I like them both.

If you want a more compact design with short chainstays, the Lenz Fatillac has that geo, maybe look at what Devin builds.

If you want to pay for custom geo, like a Level 2 El Gordo (~$1500), I'm sure Sherwood would work with you, but it'll probably take a few months. Waltworks will also build you a sweet custom. Custom costs more and takes time.

The easiest and cheapest fix with winter pending is to build a bike with an existing frame that is close to fitting your needs, then ride it and decide for yourself what you'd do different if you were the builder. Then order your custom frame, swap frames, and sell the production frame.



Estuche said:


> Thanks, this helps a lot, so if I wanted a more upright position, but still have some of the playfulness of short stays, what would that custom geo look like? In other words, if I wanted to fushion the Wozo and Gordo, could I just add some of the Wozo specs like those you mention (chainstays, ST and HT angles) and keep the rest as is? Or are there other considerations to keep in mind for the perfect hybrid?


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Maybe, I have tight clearance on a Barbe 4.5, the 4.7 is taller, but you could probably get by with adding a 10mm spacer; worse case a 20mm spacer. This is the grey area, your choice is your own, I'm just another cubicle jockey


Thank you NB. Not bad for a cubicle jockey. LOL Lets see what i come up with.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Just placed an order for a frame only, we shall see.

Edit, now kinda worried after reading that a 4.6 Dunderbeist on a 90 might be a little tight on the back?


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

It might be close depending how large the tires actually run. Here's my frame with an Edna 4.3 on an 80SL (measuring 108mm @ 20psi):


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Might be tight, worse case scenario you rebuild with a narrower rim or step down to a slightly narrower tire. I ran a 4.8 minion on a 65mm large marge and it was fine. From memory you have space for 110mm depending; 106-107mm on my Minions left ample room for mud and snow.

Great frame!



bdundee said:


> Just placed an order for a frame only, we shall see.
> 
> Edit, now kinda worried after reading that a 4.6 Dunderbeist on a 90 might be a little tight on the back?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Might be tight, worse case scenario you rebuild with a narrower rim or step down to a slightly narrower tire. I ran a 4.8 minion on a 65mm large marge and it was fine. From memory you have space for 110mm depending; 106-107mm on my Minions left ample room for mud and snow.
> 
> Great frame!


I am right at 110mm with my Beist on 90's so might work for snow?? Ben do you have any knob to downtube clearance issues with your Mastodon?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Large frame had lots of clearance, medium frame has enough clearance (5mm or so), I believe the small frame interferes.

I think you'll be fine on those tires, though you'll have to play around with drop out placement to get the tire in the right placement.

I'm running 130-140mm travel depending on my mood, so easy to change travel. No longer using an angleset.



bdundee said:


> I am right at 110mm with my Beist on 90's so might work for snow?? Ben do you have any knob to downtube clearance issues with your Mastodon?


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Agree that at 110mm you should be ok if that is widest point / knob-knob; the Edna is stretching to within a mm or so of that.

My medium Wozo shows about the same 5mm clearance between the down tube and the Mastodon that Ben is seeing.

I'm guessing it would be possible to gain some downtube clearance using the Salsa Cane Creek +3 40mm Crown Race that Salsa had made for Bluto compatibility with some of their frames.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Thanks David.p, any complete pics of your ride yet??

Kinda nervous about giving up my ti frame for the WOZO but needed some change. That and I now have a bike park in my backyard so I'm hoping for a bike I can still hit some jump lines with when I go out with the kids for a mellow ride.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

bdundee said:


> Thanks David.p, any complete pics of your ride yet??


Not yet but hopefully this time next week - parts are still trickling in.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Hey could someone with a medium measure the inside of the triangle from the bottom of the top tube to the bb shell (straight line don't worry about the curved seat tube) and along the bottom of the top tube between the seat tube and where the down tube and top tube come together up by the head tube. Just a rough measurement is fine, trying to figure out if my frame bag will fit. Thanks!!


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

I measured roughly 19"x10"


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

david.p said:


> I measured roughly 19"x10"


Thanks man!!


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## Estuche (Apr 18, 2010)

If using a 27.5 x 3.8 (~750mm) is it really possible to keep the shortest chainstays (420mm), if not, what is the approx. length when using say a Hodag or Minion? I'd really like to know please answer 

Edit: the answer is yes based on early posts, my bad!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

My frame only didn't come with anything to mount the cable for the internal dropper, whatcha all using??


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

bdundee said:


> My frame only didn't come with anything to mount the cable for the internal dropper, whatcha all using??


A rigid post


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

bdundee said:


> My frame only didn't come with anything to mount the cable for the internal dropper, whatcha all using??


These aluminum cable guides from Paragon that dustyduke22 recommended here--> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/kona-wozo-review-420mm-chainstay-runs-29-26-x-4-8-a-1029924.html#post12962998

They are clean solution and work really well. I bought the CC4111's here---> CC4111 - Aluminum Cable Clamp 4.2 mm Housing


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I got some stick on cable guides, work fine.

You can also hit up Home Depot/Lowes and get some cable hold downs, they have a hole that can be enlarged to fit on the existing bosses.

Yeah, I'm not sure what Kona was thinking...



bdundee said:


> My frame only didn't come with anything to mount the cable for the internal dropper, whatcha all using??


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

So I became really interested in Wozo due to it's Geo. I prefer high stack and long reach in addition to slack HTA and steep STA. After a quick glance at the geo charts listed on their website I was blown away and ready to order. The more I looked at the chart the more it just didn't add up. A 657mm stack and 510mm reach on the XL while still having a 74.5 STA was amazing. Then I noticed they were claiming a 521mm fork length, but I thought I read it came stock with a 100mm Bluto. I know the Bluto usually measures around 483-486mm with 20% sag based on on the rigid fat forks. So in reality with this bike at 20% it sits:
HTA: 70 degree 
STA: 76
BB height: 11.5" BB 
Stack: 641 (16mm lower)
I calculated this using a possible un worthy application so you engineers please correct any or all mistakes I made....I'm hoping I'm wrong! 
So after my disheartening observation I'm down from my high and back to reality. In hope I was wrong I called KONA directly and they confirmed the Geo Chart for the WOZO was static un-sagged. I did some more calculations and figured I would have to run a 140mm Mastodon to achieve the geo numbers listed on their website. I'm think 140mm is a lot of extra travel I don't need for a winter only bike. Someone out there please tell me all the above info is incorrect! Actually it's kind of a win win. Either I get a sweet new fatty or save money by riding the current one in the stable.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

It’s correct, your money is safe.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

69 deg HTA with a 100mm Bluto, JJ 4.8 front/JJ 4.0 rear. So real life might be 69.25deg.

Bump the fork to a Mastodon 140mm like I'm running and you get close to 67deg, which I can confirm by eyeball with my Fatillac which is also 67deg.

If the Wozo sucked and the geo was as you predict, no one on this thread would be riding one and certainly no one would be using it as a measure for modern fat bike geo.

I'm on my second one. I consider it a hard tail version of my Fatillac, though a bit more stretched and lighter weight.



jpfurn said:


> So I became really interested in Wozo due to it's Geo. I prefer high stack and long reach in addition to slack HTA and steep STA. After a quick glance at the geo charts listed on their website I was blown away and ready to order. The more I looked at the chart the more it just didn't add up. A 657mm stack and 510mm reach on the XL while still having a 74.5 STA was amazing. Then I noticed they were claiming a 521mm fork length, but I thought I read it came stock with a 100mm Bluto. I know the Bluto usually measures around 483-486mm with 20% sag based on on the rigid fat forks. So in reality with this bike at 20% it sits:
> HTA: 70 degree
> STA: 76
> BB height: 11.5" BB
> ...


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> If the Wozo sucked and the geo was as you predict, no one on this thread would be riding one and certainly no one would be using it as a measure for modern fat bike geo.


I never said the actual geo sucked, it's just not as attractive as what they posted on their website.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

jpfurn said:


> So I became really interested in Wozo due to it's Geo. I prefer high stack and long reach in addition to slack HTA and steep STA. After a quick glance at the geo charts listed on their website I was blown away and ready to order. The more I looked at the chart the more it just didn't add up. A 657mm stack and 510mm reach on the XL while still having a 74.5 STA was amazing. Then I noticed they were claiming a 521mm fork length, but I thought I read it came stock with a 100mm Bluto. I know the Bluto usually measures around 483-486mm with 20% sag based on on the rigid fat forks. So in reality with this bike at 20% it sits:
> HTA: 70 degree
> STA: 76
> BB height: 11.5" BB
> ...


Sorry, but I can't stop laughing after hearing this. Nurse Ben has taken every opportunity to ridicule anyone who choses to ride a bike with greater than a ~67 degree headtube angle, regardless of their local conditions or handling preferences. Yet, without using an angleset (see his post above), even with a long-ish 140mm Std Mastodon at 20% sag, he's been running a 69 degree HTA all along on his Wozo...or more. Ben, I feel bad for you -- you've been suffering with a non-modern geometry bike and didn't even know it! And if you've been running the Mastodon at 130mm of travel (again see post above), your suffering has even been worse!


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> 69 deg HTA with a 100mm Bluto, JJ 4.8 front/JJ 4.0 rear. So real life might be 69.25deg.
> 
> Bump the fork to a Mastodon 140mm like I'm running and you get close to 67deg, which I can confirm by eyeball with my Fatillac which is also 67deg.
> 
> ...


Sorry, you can "eyeball" all you want, but your folly has been exposed!


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Wait, you mean manufacturers aren't listing geometry at sag? Shocking.

The Wozo up next to most(all?) other hardtail fat bikes still has more progressive geometry. Even compared to most hardtails in general, it's difficult to find that many that have a listed head angle slacker than 69* (that's static. I guess that needs to be stated now).

To claim that you need to run a 140mm fork to match the geometry on the website is simply wrong. You'd match the geometry on the website *sagged*, but you'd still be adding 30-40mm of A-C, so it wouldn't 'match'. 

If Kona lists 68.5* with a 521mm fork, my Fox 140 at 547mm should sit just north of 67* static. I don't see what's wrong with Ben's numbers (though I hate to admit it {Hi Ben! }). 

I personally don't pay a ton of attention to stack when looking at geometry, but I can say that my bars (large frame) sit 2" higher than a similarly setup XL Santa Cruz High Tower LT.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Shinkers said:


> Wait, you mean manufacturers aren't listing geometry at sag? Shocking.


You could be right about manufactures not listing geo charts at sag. I know it's not done on FS bikes since the front and rear essentially both sag not affecting the static geo angles. Same goes for rigid bikes of course, but HT's sag on the front end only can dramatically change geo.

I've been riding Beargrease's for a couple years now and know they list their geo charts based on a 100mm Bluto at 25% sag. Not sure what other companies do with their HT's. I've been comparing all other options against the sagged BG charts which I now realize takes some extra math.

Either way, all that matters is that it feels right on the trail. I know that I'm attracted to the short chainstays, steep STA, and high stack on the Wozo. The problem for me is to justify a new build I'm not willing to go to a even lower BB and steaper HTA then my BG's 68.5 HTA. So according to Kona and apparrently other manufactures standard static measuring my BG actually rocks a 66.83 HTA... sweet!


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Correction... I just went back and looked up the "static" A2C on 100mm Bluto and it's listed at 511mm on SRAM's and Salsa's website. The Wozo static geo chart is based on a fork with a 521mm even though it states it comes stock with a 100mm Bluto. So it seems they fluffed the HTA, stack, and BB height with a additional 10mm up front. So while the other numbers may seem progressive in reality it has one of the steepest STA's on the market😂. To make things even worse, it comes stock with a 4.8 up front and 4.0 out back. So if you ever decide to run equal size tire's front and rear it steepens up even more! Good thing the extremely steep STA allows the option to run a 40mm longer travel fork! Still hope I'm wrong, but find it pretty funny till proven otherwise.....


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So, JP had a brain fart, we all good now?

Seriously, you all need to ride more and read less. The buyer’s constipation around this place is amazing.

The only way to avoid having your HTA steepen when you ride a bike is to run rigid or run full suspension. I figured that was common sense, but this is the era of new populism 😂

Enjoy that super slack Beargrease, I don’t miss mine one bit.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

The Wozo has forward thinking geometry and is a welcome addition to the other fat bike geometries out there (especially the long reach and short chainstays). That said, it's not a slack frame. Companies like Surly and Salsa list their geometry at the rigid fork length, which just happens to also be the sagged fork length for the designed suspension fork length for said frame. I'm glad Kona brought the Wozo out, I just wish it had a 68.5 HT angle at SAG. I spent some time on a Honzo myself. It was a fun frame, but I had to run a 140mm fork on it to make it enjoyable. 
I was on a Singular Puffin frame when the Wozo was released. At first I got excited and thought it was the perfect replacement to keep shorter stays and go a tad slacker, until I realized the geometry was unsagged.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Finished my build and got a shakedown ride in this morning. Can't wait to get more ride time in.









Frame: Medium
Fork: Manitou Mastodon Comp Std 120mm
Headset: Cane Creek 40 ZS Tapered
BB: Race Face BB86/92, press fit, 41mm diameter, 24mm spindle
Crankset: Race Face Aeffect Fat Bike crank, 170mm arm x 170mm and Race Face Cinch spider 104/64 bcd 
Chainring: Wolftooth Drop-Stop Powertrac 30t 64bcd
Bash Guard: BBG 32t 104bcd
Shifter: Shimano SLX SL-M7000 11sp
Rear Der: Shimano SLX RD-M7000 11sp GS
Cassette: Shimano SLX M7000 11sp, 11-46t
Chain: KMC X11.93
Brakes: Shimano BR-M615 Deore
Rotors: Shimano XT SM-RT76 6 bolt, 180mm/160mm
Wheels: SUNringlé Mulefut 80SL wheelset
Tires: Maxxis Minion FBF 4.8 120tpi DC/EXO; Surly Edna 4.3 60 tpi
Pedals: Race Face chester
Seat Post: Oval M750 31.6 x 400mm
Saddle: WTB Pure V
Handlebar: Jones H-bar
Stem: RaceFace Evolve 70mm


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> So, JP had a brain fart, we all good now


I'm confused, which part of the previous statements were a brain fart? I backed up all my thoughts with data provided by Kona and Rockshox. Please be more specific Nurse Ben. Also, I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to get the real numbers on the Wozo. The only person I'm remotely attacking is the one published the Wozo geo chart. If you love the bike that's all that matters. It seems clear you didn't love it in it's stock geo setup either, hence the massive fork and I thought I read you had a list of other things you'd change. Not everyone is willing to throw a 40mm longer fork on a brand new bike just to make it capable for their trails. Ignorance is bliss, just go ride and stop reading if this is bothersome... cheers!

Side note: I never said my BG is super slack. However I do know it is a true 68.5 at stock form and a lot more slack then the Wozo sadly😩


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Call Kona directly if you need more clarification.



jpfurn said:


> I'm confused, ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ya gonna extend that fork a bit? the Comp will go to 140mm.

Once you have the extra travel you can adjust travel by shock pump. Nice to have options.

I end up leaving mine at 140mm, though a few times after adjusting pressure I didn't extend the fork fully and ended up with less 



david.p said:


> Finished my build and got a shakedown ride in this morning. Can't wait to get more ride time in.
> 
> View attachment 1166546
> 
> ...


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Call Kona directly if you need more clarification.


 I just got off the phone with Kona and they saw the discrepancies in the Geo chart. He looked up the geometry from the previous year and it shows the Bluto correctly at 511 mm. He told me he's going to reach out to the engineer for the Wozo and get back to me.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

An angleset headset took any worries away and added a plethora of geo options. The external lower cup added 8-10mm of extra height (stack) and the +/- 1.5 degree of adjustability let me get a silly 66.75 upto a 69.5 HA running a 120mm Bluto.


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## Overkill (Mar 28, 2004)

So does the Wozo pretty much have to run a suspension fork? Looking at the required A-C of at least 511mm and even accounting for sag, I'm don't think a rigid fork would have a long enough A-C. Longest I've seen are 485 or so. 

Any one running one rigid? Sorry, I skimmed the thread but didn't see anyone.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> Ya gonna extend that fork a bit? the Comp will go to 140mm.


Maybe. I also have a skinny-tired, full suspension 27.5 that is 140mm front and back and I'm not sure I need/want 140mm on a fatty/29+ hardtail. I do plan on swapping spacers around to add 10mm of crown height at 120mm. But yes it's nice to have options. :thumbsup:


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Overkill said:


> So does the Wozo pretty much have to run a suspension fork? Looking at the required A-C of at least 511mm and even accounting for sag, I'm don't think a rigid fork would have a long enough A-C. Longest I've seen are 485 or so.
> 
> Any one running one rigid? Sorry, I skimmed the thread but didn't see anyone.


It's designed for a suspension fork. You can run rigid (I've seen a few between this and another Wozo thread) but the HTA will steepen and the BB will come down.

Still, I'm considering a rigid to swap in at times. Longest rigid fork I've seen is 490mm a-c on a Brontrager Haru or RSD carbon. The 483mm Salsa/Surly forks are next. Salsa Cane Creek +3mm crown race (or an angleset headset) will add a few millimeters.


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## Overkill (Mar 28, 2004)

OK, so I'm not off base here - it really is a frame intended for suspension. Thanks for the info.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No such thing as a frame designed for suspension other than a full suspension bike. Any bike can be run rigid, More importantly, what is the A-C around which the frame is designed.

The Wozo geo specd on their website is based on a 100mm travel suspension fork like the Bluto, which with sag works out to the same as what you should expect from a rigid fork, maybe a tad steeper HTA by 0.5 deg.

In other words, don't worry about it, just run rigid.

Of course, I think you should run a 140mm travel Mastodon, well, at least 120mm 



Overkill said:


> OK, so I'm not off base here - it really is a frame intended for suspension. Thanks for the info.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Just ordered the tool kit to extend my Mastodon to 140. Main reason I purchased this frame was for the head angle but my "old school frame" is slacker. Fairly disappointed in the geo chart being off, thanks JP for doing the legwork.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bdundee said:


> Just ordered the tool kit to extend my Mastodon to 140. Main reason I purchased this frame was for the head angle but my "old school frame" is slacker. Fairly disappointed in the geo chart being off, thanks JP for doing the legwork.


Wozo HTA stock build with a 100mm Bluto, 4.0/4.8 tires, is 69 deg.

Wozo with a 120mm fork ~ 68 deg HTA

Wozo with a 140mm fork ~ 67 deg HTA

If you want to run a shorter fork and have a slacker HTA, then use an angleset.

Nothing has changed.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

So I finally had a chance to talk to the engineer that was in charge of the Wozo. We both pulled the geometry chart up and I addressed my concerns about the fork length stated was 521mm when in actuality he the Bluto is 511 mm without sag. He agreed the 521 mm was incorrect and not sure why the chart changed from the previous year using the correct 511 mm Bluto. After talking for a bit he admitted that the original plans were to build the Wozo around a 521mm fork. Somewhere the ball was dropped in communication. Stocking the bike with a 4.8 upfront and a 4.0 in the rear was bandaid for the HTA mistake. He suggested a head cup spacer and a 120 Bluto for the desired 68.5 HTA. He said he was going to update the Geo chart on their website ASAP.
So no, this bike was not intended to run a rigid fork unless you could come up with a custom 521 mm fork. I run the Bontrager Haru fork which is 491mm I believe. Running that fork would steepen the HTA and lower the bottom bracket well beyond most riders comfort level. 
I told them that riders are throwing on a 140 mm fork to improve the geometry. He thanked me for my feedback and asked that I keep in touch. I may have to wait out till next year to see if they update the frame. 
Nurse ben, I hope you didn't buy a newer Wozo based off of the newer geo charts. The frame geometry did not change.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Wozo HTA stock build with a 100mm Bluto, 4.0/4.8 tires, is 69 deg.
> 
> Wozo with a 120mm fork ~ 68 deg HTA
> 
> ...


Really no big deal but it did change things. I was hoping on running a 120mm fork would put me @ 67.5 deg but now I need to go to 140mm to get there. And no way can I run my rigid 491mm fork this winter which is about equivalent to a 100mm Bluto plus sag which I thought the frame was built around. My mistake for not taking the difference size tires into the equation but I'm guessing the frame wasn't built around that in the first place.

Like I said no big deal I will deal with it and I'm sure it will be a rad bike but....... Plus I will lose needed standover. I'm sure it will be fine in the end.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

jpfurn said:


> So I finally had a chance to talk to the engineer that was in charge of the Wozo. We both pulled the geometry chart up and I addressed my concerns about the fork length stated was 521mm when in actuality he the Bluto is 511 mm without sag. He agreed the 521 mm was incorrect and not sure why the chart changed from the previous year using the correct 511 mm Bluto. *After talking for a bit he admitted that the original plans were to build the Wozo around a 521mm fork. Somewhere the ball was dropped in communication. Stocking the bike with a 4.8 upfront and a 4.0 in the rear was bandaid for the HTA mistake.*


Nice work and thanks for sharing this. I will say the danky ganj up in WA must be off the charts. I'm not tracking how these guys/gals at Kona go to production on a bike in their lineup without dottin' the i's and crossin' the t's? Then they have to resort to the 4.8/4.0 to fix it LOL. 
Whatever the case I still love this thing. Shakedown ride today with the new Mastodon at 130 was sweet!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

david.p said:


> Finished my build and got a shakedown ride in this morning. Can't wait to get more ride time in.


Sweet whip btw!!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

A Wozo with 120mm fork and 68 deg is pretty close, same as a Honzo.

Just get an angleset, they work fine, I've run them on tandems, fat bikes, and FS bikes.

I highly recommend setting your Mastodon at 140mm, then use a shock pump to reduce to 120-130mm. You might find that 140mm is sweet.

The tire size difference maybe changes the HTA by 0.25 deg, not significant.

You guys are going way overboard, there is nothing new here.



bdundee said:


> Really no big deal but it did change things. I was hoping on running a 120mm fork would put me @ 67.5 deg but now I need to go to 140mm to get there. And no way can I run my rigid 491mm fork this winter which is about equivalent to a 100mm Bluto plus sag which I thought the frame was built around. My mistake for not taking the difference size tires into the equation but I'm guessing the frame wasn't built around that in the first place.
> 
> Like I said no big deal I will deal with it and I'm sure it will be a rad bike but....... Plus I will lose needed standover. I'm sure it will be fine in the end.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> A Wozo with 120mm fork and 68 deg is pretty close, same as a Honzo.
> 
> Just get an angleset, they work fine, I've run them on tandems, fat bikes, and FS bikes.


I like the works components headsets myself.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

I've run my Wozo with both a Carver Popeye and Carver XC490 fork (both are 490mm) and had no issues. I loved the bike and only put a 140 on to change things up a bit (which ultimately I'm glad I did). 

Every frame was designed with a particular setup in mind, I don't know why that automatically means deviating from that setup is out of the question. I understand that you steepen the bike a bit, and that you'll lower your bottom bracket. But people invest way too much time/effort into theorizing how something may or may not ride. If you want to ride the Wozo rigid, do it. You can easily find a rigid fork that is an appropriate A-C (balls to whether Kona designed the bike around a 120 fork or not, they're selling it with a 100mm Bluto and half-assed workaround with the tires). A 483-490 fork will be plenty close to the stock feel of the bike, and if you're that worried, continue with a 4.0/4.8 setup.

I agree that the Beargrease is more slack. Cool deal since I thought it was 69. Go figure. Still, static it'd be 67.5-68*. No idea where you're getting 66.83 from. To go along with this though, if you want to compare geometries the Wozo still has a steeper seat tube angle, shorter chainstays, and longer top tube. 

That said, I seriously think you guys are overthinking this and the Wozo is indeed progressive for a fat bike.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Shinkers said:


> I agree that the Beargrease is more slack. Cool deal since I thought it was 69. Go figure. Still, static it'd be 67.5-68*. No idea where you're getting 66.83 from. To go along with this though, if you want to compare geometries the Wozo still has a steeper seat tube angle, shorter chainstays, and longer top tube.


I agree the Wozo is very progressive minus the HTA, but for me that is one of the most important angles on the bike. I'm not in love with the BG geo and definitely don't think it's progressive, I'm not defending it. Actually quite the opposite, because the geo is not that great for my body type I'm shopping for a new frame. When I initially researched the Wozo I was super excited and already had my shop check if my size was in stock. I was getting ready to list my BG until I looked a little harder and the numbers didn't match up. Listen, I'm vey disappointed it wasn't exactly what I thought it was originally. That being said with every other angle being in the right spot a 140mm fork would bring all those numbers and angles back to life for me. I'm just not sure if I want to ride a 140 for snow only. If it would get some summer trail time I would be all over it with the 140!

As far as my calculations go, I use the website below to swap out forks. Mess around with it, I find it very helpful when building a bike up.
https://bikegeo.muha.cc


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Head angle is important for sure, but with fat bikes, the entire geometry becomes a big deal because head angles are still pretty steep when compared to typical trail bikes. 

I'm not accusing you of defending the BG, just trying to understand your numbers. I'll check that link out. 

Apologies if I came across too aggressive, some of these numbers just had me scratching my head a bit.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

No problem at at Shinkers, you didn't come off agressive. Just a friendly discussion


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Just out of curiosity I ran the numbers and counting in 20-25% sag I will need to run the Mastodon at 140mm to match the geo on Kona's page pretty much spot on. Works for me I was just hoping to go a little slacker in the summer months.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Waaaay overthinking it, and compared to a Beargrease, OMFG, the Beargrease is an XC fat bike for racing ain’t no way is it built for a 140mm fork, can’t run an Angleset, chainstays are more than an inch longer than the Wozo, and it rides like a brick.

Who is this JP guy, like he is some kind of guru, hell, he ain’t even rode a Wozo, probably never seen more than a picture, Meanwhile I’ve built three Wozo, I’ve talked to Kona a ton arse of times, drove to BC to get bare frames, figured out the axle length. F’ing amateur.

Personally, I don’t want a slacker head angle because then I would have to use a short fork or an angleset . The Wozo is a trail killer with a long travel fork. Buy it and go ride!


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

You crack me up😂


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

The title reads 26 x 4.8.... can the rear clear a true 4.8 on 80-100mm wheel?

Update- I was just informed a true 4.8 on a appropriate rim does not fit. Sorry for the silly question, title is a little confusing.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Edit: not worth it.


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

PCT said:


> Something like this, I think? https://www.probikesupply.com/produ...tapered-matte-black-51mm-kashima-factory-fork
> 
> Mine is from 2016, can't remember where I bought it. Stanchion clearance is massive, I have fit a 4.6 Flowbeist in there. IDK if you could retrofit new lowers in yours, probably would need the proper crown etc.
> 
> It's a very capable fork and fits a wide variety of tire sizes. Good down to about 15-20 degrees. Hoping the Mastodon has significantly better cold-weather performance.


Just an update. I ordered this fork. They sent a 2018 with sku 910-20-394. This has the correct crown and brake arch for the big tires. Totally pumped! Just an update for folks that are after this fork.

Sorry for the hijack NB!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Shinkers said:


> Edit: not worth it.


Truth.

As in, yes, it ain't worth it.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Set my Mas at 140mm tonight and the bean clearance is tight but the cool thing is now I can lower or raise it at will. They should just come set at 140 and lower with a shock pump if needed  Also have a -1 deg works components headset if needed, well not quite a -1 its for a headtube up to 119 and the med Wozo is 125 so it will be like a -.90 . Waiting for the rear wheel to be built up but is seems like a Wrathchild will fit (barely) and with the sliders moved forward a bit so happy about that for sure. This is one cool lookin bike, sorry Ben I dig the Blue.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Well this bike was on my radar for anew fatty but with the lack of clearance in the rear and kona still can’t get it together for this. Off to chromag for a proper aggressive fatty until I can talk the Canfield bros into making one 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Still in progress...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ummm, you do realize that the Chromag fat bike (Nice Dreams) has really long chainstays, 447mm, not aggressive by any stretch. 67.5 hta with a 120mm fork is good, but those chainstays are no bueno! The 5" tire fit needs to be seen, 197mm rear hub spacing helps with tire fit, but you're looking at 120mm B.B., which takes this bike out of the running as a trail ripper.

On my Wozo I'm running 27.5 x 4.5 out back, not sure why you'd want fatter tires on a progressive fatty. I've ridden it pretty hard, tech, flow, 140mm travel. It's fun with this set up, but it's the 27.5 x3.8 Hodags that really bring out the beast.

Good luck with Canfield and fat bikes, they won't even design for plus tires.

For now there really is nothing in production that is equal to the Wozo 

I suspect the frames will sell out, likely the completes as well, best get one before they're gone!

I still have a large 2016 frame (green) and Bluto 120mm fork packaged for sale. Send a PM for details.



Raleighguy29 said:


> Well this bike was on my radar for anew fatty but with the lack of clearance in the rear and kona still can't get it together for this. Off to chromag for a proper aggressive fatty until I can talk the Canfield bros into making one
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I liked the green and purple. Blue, red, and purple are ok, just not enough power in baby blue 

Agree on the Manitou coming as 140mm, that makes the most sense.



bdundee said:


> Set my Mas at 140mm tonight and the bean clearance is tight but the cool thing is now I can lower or raise it at will. They should just come set at 140 and lower with a shock pump if needed  Also have a -1 deg works components headset if needed, well not quite a -1 its for a headtube up to 119 and the med Wozo is 125 so it will be like a -.90 . Waiting for the rear wheel to be built up but is seems like a Wrathchild will fit (barely) and with the sliders moved forward a bit so happy about that for sure. This is one cool lookin bike, sorry Ben I dig the Blue.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Still waiting on a few bits but getting closer.


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

I just ordered a pair of Wrathchild studded tires! I can't wait to try them. Any thoughts on how they work on trail?



bdundee said:


> Still waiting on a few bits but getting closer.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

GspotRider said:


> I just ordered a pair of Wrathchild studded tires! I can't wait to try them. Any thoughts on how they work on trail?


Sorry no real clue yet but if they are anything like the beists they will be hreat.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

bdundee said:


> Sorry no real clue yet but if they are anything like the beists they will be hreat.


C'mon man -- this is MTBR. You own it, thus you're expected to write a full review based on your expectations and bench "testing", not on any actual ride experience...

Sheesh.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

mikesee said:


> C'mon man -- this is MTBR. You own it, thus you're expected to write a full review based on your expectations and bench "testing", not on any actual ride experience...
> 
> Sheesh.


I couldn't even spell great correctly (dang old eyes)


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yup, MTBR is armchair central, so you must uphold the standard to which we have become accustomed.

Also, when you’re wrong, we get to abuse you 

Also, it’s okay to be wrong, it saves the rest of us from making the same foolish choices.

I can think of a number of early adopter decisions I made that certainly sucked...a fork known by many names for example.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

This and the "progressive geo" thread got my panties in a bunch and I ordered a Wozo frame. Anyway- starting my build list and going to get a Mastodon - I assume the "Extended" is the way to go - even if you just want to run a front 4.6 like the Wozo is spec'd with.. What do you guys think? Doing my geo change #s now.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Carl Mega said:


> This and the "progressive geo" thread got my panties in a bunch and I ordered a Wozo frame. Anyway- starting my build list and going to get a Mastodon - *I assume the "Extended" is the way to go *- even if you just want to run a front 4.6 like the Wozo is spec'd with.. What do you guys think? Doing my geo change #s now.


Pretty sure everyone has said the opposite, that the extended is not needed.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Carl Mega said:


> This and the "progressive geo" thread got my panties in a bunch and I ordered a Wozo frame. Anyway- starting my build list and going to get a Mastodon - I assume the "Extended" is the way to go - even if you just want to run a front 4.6 like the Wozo is spec'd with.. What do you guys think? Doing my geo change #s now.


Hi Carl, See this post I recently put up on the Mastodon thread. There is plenty of room when my STD Pro fork is aired down and slammed. I tested repeatedly and it still has plenty of room/clearance. Tested with both my Chupa 29+ wheels & the '17 stock Mulefut 80's with 4.8 Jumbo Jims... ---->http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/manitou-mastodon-1039416-9.html#post13410327


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

MSH said:


> Hi Carl, See this post I recently put up on the Mastodon thread. There is plenty of room when my STD Pro fork is aired down and slammed.





Swerny said:


> Pretty sure everyone has said the opposite, that the extended is not needed.


Thanks guys. Got it - will do. I'm sort of in uncharted waters having not really followed anything about Fat bikes. It's going to take a bit for me to get informed and up to speed. Hopefully I only make fun mistakes.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Swerny said:


> Pretty sure everyone has said the opposite, that the extended is not needed.


For clearance it's true, though with some folks saying they want to run the 140mm to slacken up the HTA on the Wozo, the Mastodon EXT could have a use if you want the crown height without the extra travel.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

bdundee said:


> Still waiting on a few bits but getting closer.


Looks like a sweet build. Which Nextie rims did you go with?


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Carl Mega said:


> Thanks guys. Got it - will do. I'm sort of in uncharted waters having not really followed anything about Fat bikes. It's going to take a bit for me to get informed and up to speed. Hopefully I only make fun mistakes.


You are going to love this thing man. I refused to buy into the whole fatbike thing for the longest time, but once I saw the geo specs on the Wozo when it came out I knew it was time. I always thought fatbikes were "one trick ponies" and the Wozo (along with Otso I suppose) broke that mold (at least for me). 
This thing is so versatile (especially if you build out that 2nd wheelset to run 27.5+ or 29+) and is just a shitton of fun. Now that there is finally a suitable, aggressive fatbike fork out there from one of the major manufacturers to throw on this thing it just makes it all the better. Enjoy!


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

MSH said:


> You are going to love this thing man. I refused to buy into the whole fatbike thing for the longest time, but once I saw the geo specs on the Wozo when it came out I knew it was time. ..... Enjoy!


Thanks for the encouragement! I, too, sort of fought this but I'm pretty excited about riding this bike.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

david.p said:


> Looks like a sweet build. Which Nextie rims did you go with?


Thanks, I transferred most the parts from my previous fatty. I believe they are or where called wild dragons (90mm wide) Not my first choice for a bike like this but it's what I had on hand.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Mastodon users: 
So, just so I am clear on this. The Mastodon Comp STD 120mm has a stock A-C of 531mm. It appears that it comes ready and capable to be bumped to 140mm of travel (I assume by removing some internal spacers). Does that increase the A-C to 551mm or just increase the bottom-out travel? 
I ask because I want to move up to a beefier, 140mm travel fork, but I also want the longer A-C to raise my BB and slacken my HA for summer mode when running smaller diameter 27.5x3.0 wheels/tires. 
I have made a Bluto w/ 120mm work for a year and a half now, but I'm really ready to turn the Wozo up and get more gnar out of it.

Thanks for your help.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Yes the A-C is 551mm on a Mastodon once set to 140mm travel.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Hey Wozo people... Can you help me with this somewhat confusing BB standard? I ordered the RaceFace Aeffect Cinch BB which is 24mm spindle. I think this BB92 X-Type is the right BB for the Wozo but the only thing I don't see it the callout that it fits the BB width. The strange naming around BB92 and PF121 is giving me fits. Be patient while educating me.

Here's the BB I'm looking at:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Race-F...%3Ac06f23bd15f0aa47cd87ae8cfffd33f2%7Ciid%3A1


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Yeah that would work just fine but the tube is not going to be long enough if that matters to ya. Also you might need some spacers for the spindle but not sure how that cranks interface works. I know I needed a couple for the same set up with next sl's.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Thanks dundee. Helpful. Yeah, I guess that was the stickler - sleeve length didn't seem like it would be possible to be long enough for the shorter BB shells and the width on the Wozo. If my assumption is right, that really has no bearing (ha!) on the integrity - rather is just that extra level of protection from the elements... then I'm good for this round of the build up. Re: spacers, yeah. I read the RF PDF charts and my eyes went crossed and steam came out. Figured once I had items in hand it's be a bit more clear; at this point, I'm keyboard jockeying and ordering like mad.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Carl Mega said:


> Hey Wozo people... Can you help me with this somewhat confusing BB standard? I ordered the RaceFace Aeffect Cinch BB which is 24mm spindle. I think this BB92 X-Type is the right BB for the Wozo but the only thing I don't see it the callout that it fits the BB width. The strange naming around BB92 and PF121 is giving me fits. Be patient while educating me.
> 
> Here's the BB I'm looking at:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Race-F...%3Ac06f23bd15f0aa47cd87ae8cfffd33f2%7Ciid%3A1


That's the BB I used for my build. That spacer it comes with says it should be used for 89.5, 104.5, and 121.5mm shells. The Wozo BB is 121.5mm wide so I used it. No other spacers were needed with the Aeffect Cinch 170mm spindle cranks.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I have extended the little tube out of boredom (if there was room.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Like a fat chick taking her selfie from the above angle to look skinny.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Cable management. Bike is great. X the dropper routing. WTF? In a bike world where most/more and more are running a dropper with a remote on the left side, why the hell did they route the guides this way? I want this same housing stop bolt in the same spot, on the OTHER side. 









Slam it! I'd love it even lower if I could. Like, warranty-voiding-facing-the-headtube-down-to-the-weld lower. With a 120mm Bluto. 









Not this bike specific, but I've had this lock-ring for near 20 years. 









Running this...









Meant a little surgery...









For the sweet end result. 









A whopping 40gms lighter, including the bit of dropout trimmed off.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Are you running a running a riser bar with a slammed stem?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So Scrublover, I take it the Wozo is doing it for ya?

Yup, another satisfied Kona rider


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

bdundee said:


> Are you running a running a riser bar with a slammed stem?


Yep, 15mm rise, because none of the flat bars I've found/seen/tried have at all the sweep/angles/width I want. So there ya go.

Run the same bar on all my bikes, because I like it, and hey, they are MY bikes.

Nurse Ben: I have a few little niggles with it, but overall, yes. On-One Fatty-->Fatty Trail-->Wozo. The next step would be doing a custom for the end goal.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

scrublover said:


> Yep, 15mm rise, because none of the flat bars I've found/seen/tried have at all the sweep/angles/width I want. So there ya go.
> 
> Run the same bar on all my bikes, because I like it, and hey, they are MY bikes.
> 
> Nurse Ben: I have a few little niggles with it, but overall, yes. On-One Fatty-->Fatty Trail-->Wozo. The next step would be doing a custom for the end goal.


Just asking, a little handlebar defensive  Your the one who said you wanted to go lower. I personally have only found one flat bar I have ever been comfortable (niner flats, no logo's so I can rotate em to get rid of the backsweep and make it a up sweep) otherwise I'm with ya, hate em!!


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Damn Scrublover, That is a sweet build and good looking. The blue looks pretty good there. It took me a bit to get used to my Green 'n Purp, but that Blue w/ red is it turnt.

What size is that frame? It looks way more curvy, low-profile than my Large.
Cheers, R-


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

see below


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

bdundee said:


> Still waiting on a few bits but getting closer.


bdundee,

So I have committed to a 140mm Mastodon that is on it's way to replace my 120mm Bluto. Seeing Scrublover's flipped stem for low stack height got me thinking.

Question: Based on your experience, should I plan on pulling my external-cup Angleset headset (adds 10mm on the Stack height) and put the stock zero-stack headset on so the front end isn't too high? Also, did you notice any significant change in Reach, that might make going with a slightly longer stem worth considering? I'm running a 50mm right now.

Basically, I figure that way I'll be gaining only +10 when it is all said and done to keep things reasonable upfront for the winter. Maybe throw the Angleset back on in the summer when running smaller diameter wheels and hitting more technical terrain. Just interested in what folks with experience on the Mastodon have found to be a good set-up.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

rvercoe said:


> bdundee......


Sorry man still waiting on a driver. I am fairly sensitive to a high stack height as well so should know by tomorrow night. You could always hook a shock pump up to the Mastodon and easily lower it that 10mm or whatever you want to instead of replacing your headset if it feels to tall.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm running a 60mm x -10deg stem flipped on about 15mm of spacers. Medium frame. 140mm Mastodon STD.

Increasing fork length will shorten the cockpit, but not nearly as much as using an angle set.

Your setup will vary depending on your preferred body position. I used to prefer my bars slammed, but I'm finding a more upright body position to be more comfortable, esp with my seat slammed.

I'd try the fork first, then try an angleset. Too many changes at once will confuse the situation and make diagnosing problems difficult.

Use the shock pump to change ride height, that'll tell you a lot without much work.



rvercoe said:


> bdundee,
> 
> So I have committed to a 140mm Mastodon that is on it's way to replace my 120mm Bluto. Seeing Scrublover's flipped stem for low stack height got me thinking.
> 
> ...


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

rvercoe said:


> Damn Scrublover, That is a sweet build and good looking. The blue looks pretty good there. It took me a bit to get used to my Green 'n Purp, but that Blue w/ red is it turnt.
> 
> What size is that frame? It looks way more curvy, low-profile than my Large.
> Cheers, R-


Small frame.

Stem is a Syntace Flatforce 55mm. Not flipped - they make it that way on purpose! Awesome for purposes like this, or on some of the long travel 29ers with really tall front ends.

I may toss in -2* Works Components headset and drop the fork to 100mm later, but need more ride time to decide. Today was the first ride.

Coming off a Fatty Trail frame - just swapped parts over. Me likely so far. The FT was good, but this is more what I was after.

Have 27.5+ wheels (red hubs/nips to keep the theme) and tires coming for summer use, and am selling off the "regular" hardtail. Garage was getting tight on space...

Hanging scale says a hair over 29#. Got stuff to tubeless-ize the fat wheels but haven't gotten around to it yet. That ought to drop at least a pound.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

scrublover said:


> Hanging scale says a hair over 29#. Got stuff to tubeless-ize the fat wheels but haven't gotten around to it yet. That ought to drop at least a pound.


29#'s with 120 Bluto, dropper, and aluminum wheels? That's not bad at all! If you don't mind me asking, what are some of the other builds on here coming in at?


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

jpfurn said:


> 29#'s with 120 Bluto, dropper, and aluminum wheels? That's not bad at all! If you don't mind me asking, what are some of the other builds on here coming in at?


30.8 lbs --> '17 Lg Wozo - weighed w/ WTB i35's laced to DT 350's & Chupas, Mastodon Pro Std, KS Lev, stock drivetrain & bars, Mallet E's, RF Atlas 50mm stem


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks bdundee and NB for the feedback on set-up. 

You both advocate the air pressure technique for adjusting travel and fork height. My past experience with other forks such as the Bluto with the Solo Air (120mm) and a Manitou Tower Pro 29er fork (120mm) was that if I let air out of the fork to ride lower in its travel I would get that annoying klunk when ever I unweighted the front end to manual or over a drop as the fork pushed out to its full extension and then likewise popped back through that initial travel when coming back down and weighting the fork. 

How does the Mastodon compensate for that and remain at the desired ride height or less as it moves through its travel (ie Dual air chambers or something of the sort)?

I'm sure this will become apparent once it is in my hands, but I figured it would be good to get other folks ideas/experience as well.

Cheers,
R


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

rvercoe said:


> Thanks bdundee and NB for the feedback on set-up.
> 
> You both advocate the air pressure technique for adjusting travel and fork height. My past experience with other forks such as the Bluto with the Solo Air (120mm) and a Manitou Tower Pro 29er fork (120mm) was that if I let air out of the fork to ride lower in its travel I would get that annoying klunk when ever I unweighted the front end to manual or over a drop as the fork pushed out to its full extension and then likewise popped back through that initial travel when coming back down and weighting the fork.
> 
> ...


You're not actually lowering the air pressure with the Mastodon. You hook the shock pump up push or pull the fork to desired height and while its in the position you want disconnect the pump. I guess what is does is equal out the positive and negative air chamber pressures and holds it at that travel.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Aha! Sweet, I had never had a shock with that capability before. At least, not that I was aware of. THanks!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

What Bob said, it's an equalization of pressure vs a decrease in pressure/increased sag like other forks. Fork performance is the same, just travel changes.

And yes, it's a killer fork in so many ways.

I just wish it would ship with more travel so the buyer doesn't have to take it apart.



rvercoe said:


> Aha! Sweet, I had never had a shock with that capability before. At least, not that I was aware of. THanks!


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

How many mm's of adjustment do you get out of the rear dropouts? I'm asking because I run 85's with 4.4"-4.6" tires and from the limited pictures with this combo I've seen, it looks like the rear has to be stretched to the max. I was wondering what the chain stay length would be running that combo, thanks!


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

scrublover said:


> Small frame.
> 
> Stem is a Syntace Flatforce 55mm. Not flipped - they make it that way on purpose! Awesome for purposes like this, or on some of the long travel 29ers with really tall front ends.
> 
> ...


Been an interesting thread. Been on my Boris x9 for a couple of years now (2014) and it's almost always off snow and in damp, rooty single track, so my interest is piqued. I will always be on 26 x 4+ tires. I've been on a carbon fork, mulefuts and a thudbuster with the lightest rubbers, so I really haven't seen a need for front suspension, but I'm open to it. Not been able to master manuals with the 475 CS n the Boris, but that's user error I'm guessing.

So my questions are:
1. what is really the largest rear tire we can fit with the stock mulefuts 80. 
2. what does a small stock wozo actually weigh. I plan on keeping the drivetrain, brakes, but changing pretty much everything else, but I can do the math on all that.
3. are press fits actually that bad, I can buy the tool?

I've been through the thread several times and haven't quite drilled the answers into my brain. Any help will be much appreciated.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Bumpyride said:


> Been an interesting thread. Been on my Boris x9 for a couple of years now (2014) and it's almost always off snow and in damp, rooty single track, so my interest is piqued. I will always be on 26 x 4+ tires. I've been on a carbon fork, mulefuts and a thudbuster with the lightest rubbers, so I really haven't seen a need for front suspension, but I'm open to it. Not been able to master manuals with the 475 CS n the Boris, but that's user error I'm guessing.
> 
> So my questions are:
> 1. what is really the largest rear tire we can fit with the stock mulefuts 80.
> ...


1. Can't help you on the tire clearance. I'm running 65mm rim and Floater tire all the way forward- gobs of room. Not sure how much wider i could go before running into issues and needing to move the sliders. I could go wider for sure, but not just how much. I need to experiment with the wheels from some of my riding buddies bikes and some local shop bikes. I don't want/need wider/fatter in back for where/how I'm 
riding, even in winter/snow.

2. My frame (frame only, everything but dropouts removed) only was 4# 7oz. Not light by any stretch, but not near as porky as some of the options out there.

I'd be completes have to be in the low 30's range. If you really want a light fatty, you'll either need to throw gobs of money at it, or buy something lighter/carbon from the start.

3. Nope. Yep.

No more difficult to put in than a headset, in my opinion. If you've got a headset press, it can do double duty here. I just use my threaded rod/big ass washer setup on both. Works well, and is way cheap and easy.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

scrublover said:


> 1. Can't help you on the tire clearance. I'm running 65mm rim and Floater tire all the way forward- gobs of room. Not sure how much wider i could go before running into issues and needing to move the sliders. I could go wider for sure, but not just how much. I need to experiment with the wheels from some of my riding buddies bikes and some local shop bikes. I don't want/need wider/fatter in back for where/how I'm
> riding, even in winter/snow.
> 
> 2. My frame (frame only, everything but dropouts removed) only was 4# 7oz. Not light by any stretch, but not near as porky as some of the options out there.
> ...


Thanks for the info. Tip on threaded washer a real plus. My Boris came in at 29# before I added goodies, so anywhere near 30 is a go. Thanks again.

If anyone knows max size on an 80 mulefut, would be much appreciated.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Bumpyride said:


> Thanks for the info. Tip on threaded washer a real plus. My Boris came in at 29# before I added goodies, so anywhere near 30 is a go. Thanks again.
> 
> If anyone knows max size on an 80 mulefut, would be much appreciated.


Welcome.

My perception is obviously skewed - you running a rigid fork, no-dropper post build will by for sure lighter.

You'll save some weight vs. your Boris frame in a direct swap, but if you also want the fit and geometry changes, then it's a win-win.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Bumpyride said:


> So my questions are:
> 1. what is really the largest rear tire we can fit with the stock mulefuts 80.
> ...
> 3. are press fits actually that bad, I can buy the tool?


1. I'm running an Edna 4.3 on the 80SL (108mm @ 7psi) with the dropouts at about 430mm chainstay length - I wouldn't count on wider than ~110mm in the rear.

3. Install is pretty easy with a DIY headset press (large threaded rod, nuts, and big washers). Have to wait and see if it develops creaks.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

scrublover, I plan on keeping the thudbuster (keeps me in the saddle more often) so that's a push. May or may not swap out the Bluto with a carbon fork (which I have), but will be going to Metropolis handlebars with ergon grips which add some weight, and heavier tires, lighter saddle though.

I have a system for going tubeless here in case you're still thinking of it.http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/us...-floater-larry-3-8-tires-pictures-978927.html


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Been playing with the fork travel and stack height on mine and getting closer. First 140mm Mas was a little high for standover and stack and 120mm travel felt good in both departments (maybe a touch low in stack) but felt like it needed to be a little slacker. So I threw a -1 works components headset in it and need some more testing but it seems ok. I just wish it didn't have the top external cup that adds to the stack height.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Took some tweaking but I think I got it where I need it.


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## headwind (Sep 30, 2004)

Can the Wozo run 5 inch tires?
And if not, this may sound like a dumb question, why does it come with a smaller rear tire?
In the snow I want a big tire for float and a 4 inch won't do. Can it run a 4.8?


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

headwind said:


> Can the Wozo run 5 inch tires?
> And if not, this may sound like a dumb question, but why does it come with a smaller rear tire?
> In the snow I want a big tire for float and a 4 inch won't do. Can it run a 4.8?


So from previous reports the largest confirmed tire it can fit is a 4.6 on 90mm rims(Bob's).
I was confused as well, especially if you are drawn in by this threads title!
The title should have a astric with small print reading:
1- 420mm chainstays may only be achieved with 26x4.0 or smaller diameter.
2- 4.8 tire only up front(which is insignificant because that is only based on a fork that could be run on any fat bike)
Hope this clears things up for you!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Yup no bigger than a Wrathchild on a 90 tubeless fur sure.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

If you're looking to run the widest tires for max float the Wozo isn't the best choice. The 177mm rear spacing and short chainstays limit rear tire width. It can fit a 26x4.8 Minion on a 65mm rim, but on an 80mm you'll get rubbing with stretch and flex.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

david.p said:


> If you're looking to run the widest tires for max float the Wozo isn't the best choice. The 177mm rear spacing and short chainstays limit rear tire width. It can fit a 26x4.8 Minion on a 65mm rim, but on an 80mm you'll get rubbing with stretch and flex.


I know the bike wasn't designed for snow but with a little bit of work on the chainstay yoke there would have been plenty of room for a bigger tire


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm only looking for the widest tire that would fit on 80 mulefuts. I'm currently using Floaters at 100mm and they're adequate for my weight. Still have 1 new Floater that I stockpiled. Only wondering how wide I could go. I really don't have any desire to get into a wider Q.

I usually ride dirt at about 5 or 6 lbs, and snow at 3 to 4.

So what's the widest tire anyone has actually put on a 26" x 80 mulefut on the wozo rear?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Bumpyride said:


> I'm only looking for the widest tire that would fit on 80 mulefuts. I'm currently using Floaters at 100mm and they're adequate for my weight. Still have 1 new Floater that I stockpiled. Only wondering how wide I could go. I really don't have any desire to get into a wider Q.
> 
> I usually ride dirt at about 5 or 6 lbs, and snow at 3 to 4.
> 
> So what's the widest tire anyone has actually put on a 26" x 80 mulefut on the wozo rear?


Pretty easy to do the math with what I'm running. I'm at about the max size with sliders all the way back at about 112mm tire width. It fit with the sliders about 1/4" from the front with about 1/4" on each side but rubbed under hard torque on blacktop.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

bdundee said:


> Pretty easy to do the math with what I'm running. I'm at about the max size with sliders all the way back at about 112mm tire width. It fit with the sliders about 1/4" from the front with about 1/4" on each side but rubbed under hard torque on blacktop.


Thank you sir,

Sounds like I should be able to run a 105 to 108 without too much problem.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Bumpyride said:


> Thank you sir,
> 
> Sounds like I should be able to run a 105 to 108 without too much problem.


No problem with 105-108mm. I threw a set of 4.6 tubed ground controls on 90's today and they fit easily with the sliders all the way back. Could prolly slide em forward some but didn't feel like messing with it.


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## headwind (Sep 30, 2004)

jpfurn said:


> So from previous reports the largest confirmed tire it can fit is a 4.6 on 90mm rims(Bob's).
> I was confused as well, especially if you are drawn in by this threads title!
> The title should have a astric with small print reading:
> 1- 420mm chainstays may only be achieved with 26x4.0 or smaller diameter.
> ...


Yes that clears it up. I may just look for a Farley frame as the chain stays are also 420mm when all the way forward. But when slid back to 440mm the frame can fit 5 inch or 27.5 x 4.5.
I am going to do a build later this winter and it needs to accommodate snow tires and the Manitou fork. I guess this frame is not for me.

Edit: The Farley is not available as a frame. I'd rather stick with something I can get from the lbs but I will have to expand my search.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

All frames that fit a taller tire (29+, 26 x 4.8, 27.5 x 4.5) will have either longer fixed chainstay position or in the case of an adjustable chainstay, it'll be slid back. The Wozo has the shortest production chainstays that will fit taller tires.

To fit a 5" tire, you have to bump up to a 197mm rear hub spacing and 120mm B.B, like the Farley.

I think you're confused.



headwind said:


> Yes that clears it up. I may just look for a Farley frame as the chain stays are also 420mm when all the way forward. But when slid back to 440mm the frame can fit 5 inch or 27.5 x 4.5.
> I am going to do a build later this winter and it needs to accommodate snow tires and the Manitou fork. I guess this frame is not for me.
> 
> Edit: The Farley is not available as a frame. I'd rather stick with something I can get from the lbs but I will have to expand my search.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No, you can run taller tires in the shortest chainstay position, like the Minion 29+, but it's tight, maybe 1/4" of clearance. Bumping the chainstay to 425mmfor 29+ is better for mud clearance, but still keeps the chainstays super short.



jpfurn said:


> So from previous reports the largest confirmed tire it can fit is a 4.6 on 90mm rims(Bob's).
> I was confused as well, especially if you are drawn in by this threads title!
> The title should have a astric with small print reading:
> 1- 420mm chainstays may only be achieved with 26x4.0 or smaller diameter.
> ...


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## headwind (Sep 30, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> All frames that fit a taller tire (29+, 26 x 4.8, 27.5 x 4.5) will have either longer fixed chainstay position or in the case of an adjustable chainstay, it'll be slid back. The Wozo has the shortest production chainstays that will fit taller tires.
> 
> To fit a 5" tire, you have to bump up to a 197mm rear hub spacing and 120mm B.B, like the Farley.
> 
> I think you're confused.


So the Wozo can run 5 inch tires or the 27.5 x 4.5?
That's great then. I will go to my lbs and see if I can source a frame. 
Confusing to say the least but if I can run 26 x 5 or 27.5 x 4.5 I'm a happy guy.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

headwind said:


> So the Wozo can run 5 inch tires or the 27.5 x 4.5?
> That's great then. I will go to my lbs and see if I can source a frame.
> Confusing to say the least but if I can run 26 x 5 or 27.5 x 4.5 I'm a happy guy.


I've seen pictures (Bens bike) with 27.5 x 4.5's on it but that's something he can confirm (again  ). As far as 26x5? That is a tire label that can or can not be accurate depending on a lot of variables. I would say that a tire that is 112mm wide is absolutely pushing the boundaries of this frame and might have rubbing under high torque situations. It's up to you to figure out which tires meet or are under that criteria. Height I have no clue but only speaking about 26" here.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Wow, definitely confused 

If you want 5" tires, you will not get them to fit in any short chainstay frame AND you'll probably need to go up to a 197mm hub spacing and a wider B.B.

As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

The question you should be asking yourself is whether you need a 5" tire or whether you'd rather have an all around playful bike.



headwind said:


> So the Wozo can run 5 inch tires or the 27.5 x 4.5?
> That's great then. I will go to my lbs and see if I can source a frame.
> Confusing to say the least but if I can run 26 x 5 or 27.5 x 4.5 I'm a happy guy.


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## headwind (Sep 30, 2004)

Wow this is confusing. 
I guess I need to ask.....will the Wozo fit a 27.5 x 4.5 on an 80mm mulefut rim?
And it does fit 5 inch tires?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes. I ran Minion 4.8 on 65mm rims and now running 4.5 on 80mm rims. It's all a slight of hand as a 4.5 tire on a wide rim could be just as wide as 5" tire on a narrow rim, not to mention the variations in actual tire size. I'd stick with 110mm inflated and stretched for max width.

For sure, a small tire diameter (26" vs 27.5") will allow for a shorter chainstay length with the same tire width.



bdundee said:


> I've seen pictures (Bens bike) with 27.5 x 4.5's on it but that's something he can confirm (again  ). As far as 26x5? That is a tire label that can or can not be accurate depending on a lot of variables. I would say that a tire that is 112mm wide is absolutely pushing the boundaries of this frame and might have rubbing under high torque situations. It's up to you to figure out which tires meet or are under that criteria. Height I have no clue but only speaking about 26" here.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

bdundee said:


> Took some tweaking but I think I got it where I need it.


That ride looks sick. What size rims/tires are you running with that set-up?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

rvercoe said:


> That ride looks sick. What size rims/tires are you running with that set-up?


Thanks, 90mm rims with 4.6 Wrathchilds.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Just put my order in for a 2017 Wozo. Thought long and hard about it, but in the end (the chain stay being the end) it was worth it not to leave it to the kids.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Woohoo! My Wozo frame arrived. Stoked - it's very nice in person. At this point in my life, I like to think that I have a good eye for looking at a bike and knowing if it'll be fun to ride or not... and my eye says Wozo FUN... Anyway - build up will be after the holiday... most likely. 

Some small tid-bits for those who care about things:

Size Large - weight w/ headset cups, sliders, axle and QR seatpost clamp - 5.6lbs.

Will be running the Std Comp Mastodon in 120 to start. 

Front tire is a trail orientated Maxxis FBF 4.8" @ a bit over 1600gr which now looks pretty massive compared to the 45 North Van Helga 4" 1300gr. Both are 120 TPI, tubeless ready and dry mounted tubeless with no issues on a prebuilt set of MuleFat 80 SLs.

More to come as I get time... thanks for all the info in here...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I still have a large Wozo frame for sale, green, good condition, prefer to sell it with the Bluto, but I might be willing to split them up...

Would also consider trade/partial trade for a modern geo 27.5/29 hardtail in a size medium; it’s for one of my kids.

Send a PM.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Got a 27.5+ wheelset done up for the Wozo, and am selling off the "regular" hardtail. Thins the heard/gains valuable space in my tiny garage this way.









Hope hubs, AmClassic 3834 rim, Wheelsmith DB spokes and red alloy nips. Magic Mary 2.8 front/Nobby Nic 2.6 rear. Two wraps of tape, both aired up and stayed just fine for ~10mile rooty/rocky shakedown cruise yesterday.



















Bike is roughly 2.5# lighter than with the fat wheels. While fun and decently fast that way, on non-sloppy/snow/ice days, it'll get ridden way more this way!


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## headwind (Sep 30, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yes. I ran Minion 4.8 on 65mm rims and now running 4.5 on 80mm rims. It's all a slight of hand as a 4.5 tire on a wide rim could be just as wide as 5" tire on a narrow rim, not to mention the variations in actual tire size. I'd stick with 110mm inflated and stretched for max width.
> 
> For sure, a small tire diameter (26" vs 27.5") will allow for a shorter chainstay length with the same tire width.


I'm out. 
The Wozo simply does not have enough rear clearance for what I need. I am now thinking full rigid anyway for my project which is going to be a snow bike.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Hi Nurse Ben and Bdundee,
Mastodon Set-up help. So, I got my Mastodon Comp Std 120mm today and am trying to set it up in 140mm mode. I downloaded the Mastodon Travel Chainge Guide and followed the instructions. I set the air (IVA) side with the 4 spacers below the piston as indicated. When I got to the dampening side, I didn't see any spacers on the piston. So, I just replaced the dampening piston, but I am still only getting the 120mm of travel even though I set the air side for 140mm. 

How do I adjust the dampening side to free-up the extra 20mm of travel? 

Sorry, for being a newbie at this, I have worked on every other part of my bikes except for the shocks for the past 40 years. Shock internals are new territory for me. Everything sounded so easy I figured I could do this, but when I saw the shock fluid sloshing around on the dampener side, it was like seeing blood and I just closed it all back up like i found it. 
Thanks for your help. R-


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

rvercoe said:


> Hi Nurse Ben and Bdundee,
> Mastodon Set-up help. So, I got my Mastodon Comp Std 120mm today and am trying to set it up in 140mm mode. I downloaded the Mastodon Travel Chainge Guide and followed the instructions. I set the air (IVA) side with the 4 spacers below the piston as indicated. When I got to the dampening side, I didn't see any spacers on the piston. So, I just replaced the dampening piston, but I am still only getting the 120mm of travel even though I set the air side for 140mm.
> 
> How do I adjust the dampening side to free-up the extra 20mm of travel?
> ...


First thing is you don't mess with the internals on the damper side. You adjusted the IVA but that is only for adjusting how progressive the shock is and doesn't change the travel as you found out. You need the remove the lowers (get the socket kit for a Mattoc) and take the air piston out and adjust/remove spacers per instructions. Easy job if you messed with forks before but can be a little intimidating if you haven't. There is a bunch of good info in the Mastodon thread on this as well, good luck man.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

scrublover said:


> Like a fat chick taking her selfie from the above angle to look skinny.


Looks like Graham Hills?


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

6thElement said:


> Looks like Graham Hills?


Wilton Woods!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Attach the shock pump, inflate to desired pressure, then pull the fork legs out to full extension, don't release tension until the shock pump is removed. Fork will hold that extension.

It's pretty easy to forget this trick when adjusting pressure, which can lead to sone leg retraction and reduced travel. I forgot once while adjusting pressure on the trail, I didn't realize I was only running 120mm of travel... it just felt odd.



rvercoe said:


> Hi Nurse Ben and Bdundee,
> Mastodon Set-up help. So, I got my Mastodon Comp Std 120mm today and am trying to set it up in 140mm mode. I downloaded the Mastodon Travel Chainge Guide and followed the instructions. I set the air (IVA) side with the 4 spacers below the piston as indicated. When I got to the dampening side, I didn't see any spacers on the piston. So, I just replaced the dampening piston, but I am still only getting the 120mm of travel even though I set the air side for 140mm.
> 
> How do I adjust the dampening side to free-up the extra 20mm of travel?
> ...


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Attach the shock pump, inflate to desired pressure, then pull the fork legs out to full extension, don't release tension until the shock pump is removed. Fork will hold that extension.
> 
> It's pretty easy to forget this trick when adjusting pressure, which can lead to sone leg retraction and reduced travel. I forgot once while adjusting pressure on the trail, I didn't realize I was only running 120mm of travel... it just felt odd.


I don't think he actually took the lowers off as it actually only calls for one spacer below the piston for 140mm travel. I'm thinking he just took the IVA out which is 4 spacers below??

On a side note I took mine out on a proper trail ride (non snow) yesterday and yes at 140mm travel with -1 deg it's a little slack, will be great at the park tho. 120mm with a -1 might be the sweet spot for me as it gives me standover and what seems to be fast enough handling? It could all change once the snow hits and as Ben has recommended I might end up popping the -1 headset out?


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I'm considering a Wozo and concerned on sizing, I'm 6'2", ~34" inseam and normally ride XL frames, current trail bike is ~455mm reach. I was looking at the L Wozo but I'm going to have a lot of seatpost showing from that 18.8" ST, my shortest current ST is 20"...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yeah, that might be an issue, BUT now you can run a 175mm dropper 

I'm 6'/32" inseam, rode Large Wozo last season, it had terrible standover even with 27+ and was very stretched our with a 45mm stem, 140mm fork, and the seat all the way forward. I swapped to a medium frame and I'm much happier, 60mm stem, 140mm fork, seat set a little back of center.

The reach on the large will be 20mm longer than your current frame, so you can run a super short stem, also if you run a 140mm Mastodon, you'll reduce reach by a tad and decrease standover. The XL is 55mm longer than your current frame.

The Wozo is one of those wierd geos that is probably best ridden a size down from your normal bike. I normally ride a large.

My son is 6'5", 34-35" inseam, he rode my Large Wozo last summer and liked it so much I'm rebuilding it for him with two wheelsets (29+ and 27.5) and a 175mm dropper.



6thElement said:


> I'm considering a Wozo and concerned on sizing, I'm 6'2", ~34" inseam and normally ride XL frames, current trail bike is ~455mm reach. I was looking at the L Wozo but I'm going to have a lot of seatpost showing from that 18.8" ST, my shortest current ST is 20"...


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

6thElement said:


> I'm considering a Wozo and concerned on sizing, I'm 6'2", ~34" inseam and normally ride XL frames, current trail bike is ~455mm reach. I was looking at the L Wozo but I'm going to have a lot of seatpost showing from that 18.8" ST, my shortest current ST is 20"...


I'm on a medium with a 32.5" inseam and I believe the seattube is about 1.75" shorter than the large. Should come out to about the same length of post sticking out. On a side note I could barely fit a 150mm fox transfer due to the bend in the seatube.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yeah, some posts have more insert, Fox is long due to the mechanism.

On my medium I'm running about an inch of post on a RF 150mm, but I could slam it. I was hoping for a 175mm, but it was too tall.

If they steepened the HTA, they get a slightly shorter reach and they could reduce the curve for more post insertion.

I'd like to see a Honzo styled TT with a brace to the STA, that way it'd be safer for the boyz.



bdundee said:


> I'm on a medium with a 32.5" inseam and I believe the seattube is about 1.75" shorter than the large. Should come out to about the same length of post sticking out. On a side note I could barely fit a 150mm fox transfer due to the bend in the seatube.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I'm only 5'9" and running 2 inches of post out on a 150 Fox. I think I could only lower it about 1/2 if I remember right. Fairly long legged for a short guy.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dude! You are all leg!

If you ever need an internal post with minimum insertion, the E-Thirteen is tops.



bdundee said:


> I'm only 5'9" and running 2 inches of post out on a 150 Fox. I think I could only lower it about 1/2 if I remember right. Fairly long legged for a short guy.


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## Whahappen (Jul 15, 2016)

So a 5' 8" 29" inseam rider would do better on a small vs. medium? I'm having this dilemma as I consider ordering a wozo. The bike shop only has a large in stock, with no plans on getting a medium or small in unless its ordered. 2 different employees disagree somewhat as to which I'd be a better fit. I'd rather only order once of course, so any insight would be appreciated.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm 5'9 with a 30" inseam. My small should be here in 4 or 5 days, and I can give you a heads up then. I have a short reach (31.5") so you might have to take that into consideration. I have a Moto Boris X9 in a small and find that to be perfect although I've maxed out a 400mm seatpost, and put on a 35mm stem.

I always get the smallest tool that does the job well and am seldom disappointed. The standover on the Wozo is way higher than the Boris, so that sealed my choice. Will give you a headsup if you can wait.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Whahappen said:


> So a 5' 8" 29" inseam rider would do better on a small vs. medium? I'm having this dilemma as I consider ordering a wozo. The bike shop only has a large in stock, with no plans on getting a medium or small in unless its ordered. 2 different employees disagree somewhat as to which I'd be a better fit. I'd rather only order once of course, so any insight would be appreciated.


I'm just shy of 5'9" with about 31" inseam, very comfy on my small frame with a 55mm stem. If anything for me, I'd even go a bit shorter on the stem on a stock bike. I did put in a -1* headset, so that actually decreased the reach just a touch. Enough that I don't feel the need to swap to the shorter stem. #goldilockshasafatbike

There is only so short you can go with the stem though. If I'd gone medium, and it still felt too long with a super short stem, nothing to be done. 25mm difference in reach between the two sizes.

How do the numbers compare to whatever you are riding at the moment, assuming you like the fit/feel?


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

bdundee said:


> I don't think he actually took the lowers off as it actually only calls for one spacer below the piston for 140mm travel. I'm thinking he just took the IVA out which is 4 spacers below??
> 
> On a side note I took mine out on a proper trail ride (non snow) yesterday and yes at 140mm travel with -1 deg it's a little slack, will be great at the park tho. 120mm with a -1 might be the sweet spot for me as it gives me standover and what seems to be fast enough handling? It could all change once the snow hits and as Ben has recommended I might end up popping the -1 headset out?


Yeah, I only removed the top IVA cap and rearranged the spacers. I was naively thinking it was that easy to adjust the travel. I have it reset back to stock settings for 120mm.

So, I guess I need to order the Mattoc tool set. Do I also need to get some Pre-bath fluid and shock fluid? I have watched the Mattoc travel adjust videos (which seems to be the closest to the Mastodon) and it looks like I will loose some fluid in the 120-140mm series-up process. Is this correct? Thanks.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

6thElement said:


> I'm considering a Wozo and concerned on sizing, I'm 6'2", ~34" inseam and normally ride XL frames, current trail bike is ~455mm reach. I was looking at the L Wozo but I'm going to have a lot of seatpost showing from that 18.8" ST, my shortest current ST is 20"...


I'm 6'2" w/ 34"" inseam. I usually ride 20" traditional Large frames. I've been perfectly happy riding the Large WOZO with a 150mm dropper and a 50mm stem for a year and a half now. I have about 25 mm of post between the dropper collar and the seat post clamp, which is perfect for my tastes to strap a fender around in mucky conditions. I couldn't imagine going XL, especially in winter conditions.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

rvercoe said:


> Yeah, I only removed the top IVA cap and rearranged the spacers. I was naively thinking it was that easy to adjust the travel. I have it reset back to stock settings for 120mm.
> 
> So, I guess I need to order the Mattoc tool set. Do I also need to get some Pre-bath fluid and shock fluid? I have watched the Mattoc travel adjust videos (which seems to be the closest to the Mastodon) and it looks like I will loose some fluid in the 120-140mm series-up process. Is this correct? Thanks.


All you will need is the bath oil, some slick honey grease, Mattoc socket set, as well as something to measure the fluid with. You don't actually mess with the damper side. Pretty easy job really.


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## Whahappen (Jul 15, 2016)

Bumpyride said:


> ...Will give you a headsup if you can wait.


Yea, it will be next weekend before I can even think about committing, so if you get a ride or 3 in on yours, it would be nice to hear what you think.



scrublover said:


> ...How do the numbers compare to whatever you are riding at the moment, assuming you like the fit/feel?


The small compares favorably to the medium Fuel EX 8 I'm riding now in stack, reach and stand-over. The seat tube is a bit shorter (1.5" or so) on the wozo in small, and my dropper currently sticks out maybe 3/4" on the Trek. Its only a 120mm, so maybe a longer one would be in order for the wozo. The trek also sports a 45mm stem vs. the 80mm it came with, so maybe that's my sign.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Will do. Supposed to be here the 29th. I ordered a 2017.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Whahappen said:


> Yea, it will be next weekend before I can even think about committing, so if you get a ride or 3 in on yours, it would be nice to hear what you think.
> 
> The small compares favorably to the medium Fuel EX 8 I'm riding now in stack, reach and stand-over. The seat tube is a bit shorter (1.5" or so) on the wozo in small, and my dropper currently sticks out maybe 3/4" on the Trek. Its only a 120mm, so maybe a longer one would be in order for the wozo. The trek also sports a 45mm stem vs. the 80mm it came with, so maybe that's my sign.


Based on that, yeah, I'd go small.

No worry on your dropper so long as you aren't past the min insert line.

Would be a very nice complementary ride with your Fuel EX!


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

So I got my build complete and did two rides. Super fun - this this is like a barrel of monkeys.. It met my hopes which were significantly higher than my expectations. I have to confess, I've been mired in the negative 1st 3 stages of Fatbiking: Dismissal - Mockery - Hostility - Acceptance - Reward. I get it now. Sorry.

Here it is:

2018 Wozo Size Large
Mastodon Comp Standard 120mm
MuleFat 80 SL F/R
KS 950 5" dropper
Shimano XT Brakes 180/160
Shimano XT m8000 drivetrain
Easton Carbon Havoc bar
Spank Spike Race stem - 35mm
Spank Spike pedals
WTB Silverado Saddle
CaneCreek HS
Race Face Aeffect 170mm w/ BB
Maxxis FBF 4.8 120 TPI Exo tubeless front
45 North Van Helga 4.0 120 TPI tubeless rear

35lbs

For point of reference, I pieced this build together - without trying too hard - for under $2k. I think it's nicer than stock; a journey man build with no junk parts. Just a few donor parts but selective bargain hunting could have kept it real close $$wise.

Excited about winter


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> View attachment 1169385
> 
> I have to confess, I've been mired in the negative 1st 3 stages of Fatbiking: Dismissal - Mockery - Hostility - Acceptance - Reward. I get it now. Sorry.


Been there too, then I got a fatty, got a second helping when I started hearing about the Foes Mutz, then I got one of them.

Your next stage: Full Suspenion FAT!

Funny thing, I got a Fatillac and the Wozo, no snow to speak of yet, so I got the Hodags on the Wozo... and it's the bike I loaded up this morning. It really is a fun bike, esp with a long travel fork.

So I'm building up my large Wozo for my son, anyone have a source for inexpensive wheels in a 27.5 fat or a 29 mid fat?

I could also build the wheels, got some rims and tires, just need hubs. Anyoen have an opinion on a quality cheapo hub; my son is not a gear abuser yet


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

For those who've bought 2018 completes did they come with tubeless valves and/or tokens for the Bluto?

Trying to line up some purchases to align with a couple of bikes which might be heading in my and my wifes direction


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## Lic-Niner (Feb 15, 2009)

I got tokens for the Bluto, but not valve stems or tubeless rim tape. There are cable clips to route a dropper, but mine were missing so I had to pick them up from the shop later.


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## headwind (Sep 30, 2004)

Carl Mega said:


> View attachment 1169385
> 
> 
> So I got my build complete and did two rides. Super fun - this this is like a barrel of monkeys.. It met my hopes which were significantly higher than my expectations. I have to confess, I've been mired in the negative 1st 3 stages of Fatbiking: Dismissal - Mockery - Hostility - Acceptance - Reward. I get it now. Sorry.
> ...


Sweet build. 
Stupid question....why run the smaller rear tire?


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

headwind said:


> Sweet build.
> Stupid question....why run the smaller rear tire?


Thanks for the compliment. Not a stupid question... A few reasons...1) that's the spec that Kona sells on their complete bike - thought that would be a good starting point 2) my preference on trail bikes has me with a slightly more volume front than rear 3) I barely know what I'm doing on Fat configs



Nurse Ben said:


> Your next stage: Full Suspenion FAT!


Heh. One step at a time. First I have a lot to learn, figure out and discover. Like - what is the optimal tire size for sporting trail riding where you get that redonkulous fat feel, can still explore the sand washes but pick up some sporty feel at the tires? Things like that.

Really been impressed w/ this tho. First few min of completing it, did a nice wheelie down the street (yet to be matched unfortunately) and trail riding brought out some surprising long (but low) manuals. Do pretty much the same hits, jumps and boosters that'd do on the trail bike (not forcing them either - naturally gravitates to them) plus some good, fast longish trail jumps with recklessness cause you know you're going to stick it once those big meats make contact. I thought this would feel more circus side show but it has a great sensation to it that doesn't feel like you are cramming a square peg in a round hole. The only downside so far is the q-factor. On the trail - manageable cause I move around a lot. But hit a longish flat fire road and that blew up any fantasies of making a fat a quiver killer/go to bike. I know there are some especially narrow fat bikes; so it will remain to be seen if I'd be willing to trade the Wozo geo in favor of prioritizing the narrower Q factor. These RaceFace cranks are pretty far on the wide side so I'll work on getting sorted on the Wozo in time. blah blah blah... meantime... FUN


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It's really not as wide as you think, only 1/2" per side. You cranks may worsen the factor depending on which ones you're running. Tightest and best fit is the Race Face Next SL.

I only have fat bikes and I routinely do all day epics with no issues.



Carl Mega said:


> Thanks for the compliment. Not a stupid question... A few reasons...1) that's the spec that Kona sells on their complete bike - thought that would be a good starting point 2) my preference on trail bikes has me with a slightly more volume front than rear 3) I barely know what I'm doing on Fat configs
> 
> Heh. One step at a time. First I have a lot to learn, figure out and discover. Like - what is the optimal tire size for sporting trail riding where you get that redonkulous fat feel, can still explore the sand washes but pick up some sporty feel at the tires? Things like that.
> 
> Really been impressed w/ this tho. First few min of completing it, did a nice wheelie down the street (yet to be matched unfortunately) and trail riding brought out some surprising long (but low) manuals. Do pretty much the same hits, jumps and boosters that'd do on the trail bike (not forcing them either - naturally gravitates to them) plus some good, fast longish trail jumps with recklessness cause you know you're going to stick it once those big meats make contact. I thought this would feel more circus side show but it has a great sensation to it that doesn't feel like you are cramming a square peg in a round hole. The only downside so far is the q-factor. On the trail - manageable cause I move around a lot. But hit a longish flat fire road and that blew up any fantasies of making a fat a quiver killer/go to bike. I know there are some especially narrow fat bikes; so it will remain to be seen if I'd be willing to trade the Wozo geo in favor of prioritizing the narrower Q factor. These RaceFace cranks are pretty far on the wide side so I'll work on getting sorted on the Wozo in time. blah blah blah... meantime... FUN


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Small.

I have four inches height and three inches inseam on you; I ride a medium. My son is 6'5"/34" inseam, I'm building him a large; he could probably ride an XL, but he liked the large.



Whahappen said:


> So a 5' 8" 29" inseam rider would do better on a small vs. medium? I'm having this dilemma as I consider ordering a wozo. The bike shop only has a large in stock, with no plans on getting a medium or small in unless its ordered. 2 different employees disagree somewhat as to which I'd be a better fit. I'd rather only order once of course, so any insight would be appreciated.


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## Whahappen (Jul 15, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> Small.
> 
> I have four inches height and three inches inseam on you; I ride a medium. My son is 6'5"/34" inseam, I'm building him a large; he could probably ride an XL, but he liked the large.


Thanks all for the advice. One thing I've figured out with research over the past few days is that a bike inseam measurement is different from the pants measurement. So I'm probably between 30"-31" inseam for a bike. Doesn't change what I'd get for a frame size, but it's a good thing to note for any future questions to the thread.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> It's really not as wide as you think, only 1/2" per side. You cranks may worsen the factor depending on which ones you're running. Tightest and best fit is the Race Face Next SL.
> 
> I only have fat bikes and I routinely do all day epics with no issues.


All but guarantee that I'm more sensitive to Q-factor than you. On my trail bike, the widest I can handle is 168 and my racing days max was 156. Even 172 = nope, pain and .5" is a country mile in Q-factor. I actually had hip pain yesterday after fat biking it over the weekend - not sure it was the fit but I think so. So we'll see. But - looking at stuuupid RF chart:

I think there's only 2 spindle options that fit... depending on 30mm vs. 24mm then the cranks...

NextSL - 30mm - RF 169 spindle which brings you a 203mm QFactor
Aefect - 24mm - XCF100 spindle which brings you to a 205mm QFactor

I have the Aefect & I didn't see my crank spindle marked when I installed it so I'll need to double check this is the case but it seems right given the clearance of crank arm to chain stay. I might be fighting for a few mm which might be like throwing $$ into the ocean and farting in a windstorm at the same time.

Regardless, it's an impressive bike. Just probably not going to be an all day/everyday one for me - which is fine - I have a garage full to pick from.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Measure the distance between the crank arm at the pedal spindle and the chainstay, I'll do the same for my Next SL.

I think the difference between the Next SL and Aefect is more than 2mm as the Turbine and Aefect are simmilar design with different spindles; the Turbine is 10mm wider than the Next SL.

You might also want to try a shorter crank.

Needs pics of the garage 



Carl Mega said:


> All but guarantee that I'm more sensitive to Q-factor than you. On my trail bike, the widest I can handle is 168 and my racing days max was 156. Even 172 = nope, pain and .5" is a country mile in Q-factor. I actually had hip pain yesterday after fat biking it over the weekend - not sure it was the fit but I think so. So we'll see. But - looking at stuuupid RF chart:
> 
> I think there's only 2 spindle options that fit... depending on 30mm vs. 24mm then the cranks...
> 
> ...


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Measure the distance between the crank arm at the pedal spindle and the chainstay, I'll do the same for my Next SL.
> 
> Needs pics of the garage


Thanks. This is really helpful. I'm running 170mm cranks so I'm probably keeping that length. I measured from outside of crank arm (pedal flush) to the chainstay with the arms and cs parallel... Here's what I got:

17mm Drive side
23mm Non-Drive side

The discrepency may be due to me installing the BB w/out a drive side spacer.. There's a 2.5mm that may be needed; I see it referenced on the chart when I rechecked - but, interestingly, there's no play or movement in the cranks arms so I just left it until I found out for sure. Someone else mentioned they didn't have any spacers installed.

Here's my cramped, old garage (perk of mtn living?) - trying desperately to downsize my fleet:


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Umm, yeah, you either need a much bigger garage, more time to ride (think retirement), or you need to have a garage sale 

As to spacers, you should reduce the spacers until the adjustment washer cannot take up the space; ie spindle is loose, then add a thin spacer.

The Next SL have a much tighter clearance to the chainstays, just by memory it's about 8-10mm per side.

Somewhere I documented it, might be back a few pages in this thread...

Edit: Found this in a post I made last spring: "I'm running RF Next SL Cinch 170mm carbon cranks they are slightly narrower than the RF Turbine (~6mm per side), chainstay clearance is 9-10mm. You can check the RF site to see the q factors."

So based on your measurements of the Aefect crank, you could reduce you overall qfactor by almost an inch! You'll need a spindle and crankset. No need to buy the newest Next cranks, SL are good stuff.

I'd suggest the SRAM GX Eagle, but I don't know the q factor on those cranks. Seems like the Next SL was the best.



Carl Mega said:


> Thanks. This is really helpful. I'm running 170mm cranks so I'm probably keeping that length. I measured from outside of crank arm (pedal flush) to the chainstay with the arms and cs parallel... Here's what I got:
> 
> 17mm Drive side
> 23mm Non-Drive side
> ...


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Edit: Found this in a post I made last spring: "I'm running RF Next SL Cinch 170mm carbon cranks they are slightly narrower than the RF Turbine (~6mm per side), chainstay clearance is 9-10mm. You can check the RF site to see the q factors."


Heh - my coworkers would say that I act like I'm retired.

Anyway - I think I'm close to your Next cranks measurement-wise tho. Originally, I measured from outside of crank arm to the chain stay - figured if comparing apples to apples, this would account for differing thickness of the crank arms themselves (which impacts the Qfactor). Anyway - just measuring inner of crank arm to CS (clearance) is this:

DS - 5mm
NDS - 11mm

I need to process on your spacer recommendation. Spindle/arms don't have movement but I have to believe they intended for a 2.5mm drive side spacer between the BB Cup and the frame.

Ok - gotta go ride so stalk-mode off. Cheers and thanks.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Rear hub on the stock build is listed as a Formula 177x12mm, has anyone got a link to a compatible XD freehub?


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Whahappen said:


> Yea, it will be next weekend before I can even think about committing, so if you get a ride or 3 in on yours, it would be nice to hear what you think.
> 
> The small compares favorably to the medium Fuel EX 8 I'm riding now in stack, reach and stand-over. The seat tube is a bit shorter (1.5" or so) on the wozo in small, and my dropper currently sticks out maybe 3/4" on the Trek. Its only a 120mm, so maybe a longer one would be in order for the wozo. The trek also sports a 45mm stem vs. the 80mm it came with, so maybe that's my sign.


Got the bike and first impressions are exactly what I thought it would be. Just short trial rides to get dialed in. As far as standover goes, I would not want it to be any higher, and again, I'm a solid 30" inseam. I'm using all of a 400 mm seatpost on the small, and there's just enough room, but I'd welcome another 2" like on my other bikes.

Bike is fun and was 32.8 lbs stock w/o pedals (that's point 8, not 8 oz.). Don't know what tubes are in it, but anticipating another 2 lbs. off depending on tubes.

Changed out stem, bars, and grips, should be close to a wash on those. The new stem has a rise and is a 35mm (I think) for a little more upright position. The stock stem was 60mm.

Kona bar, grips, stem and WT B Volt seat are going up for sale.

Hope this helps you cement your size.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

First single track today. Rain let up for a morning break.

Ran the chain stays almost all the way forward just to see. Climbs like a goat. I was able to stay in the saddle and did not have to resort to pulling up on the handlebars for traction on the steep climbs wet leaf covered sections. 

Quite nimble and did not seem to handle at all like my Boris. Faster in and out of turns, more like a true trail bike. Was much easier leaning it over. I was not expecting this with the Bluto. Aside from seeing a 4.8" tire in front of me, there was no indication of handling that would be any different than having a 2+" tire except for everything that a fat tire is great for.

The only con that I can say is pedal strikes. Had them over places I never have had them before. That's going to require a little more planning as I roll over roots. All frame sizes have the same BB height (307). A shorter crank arm would help. Also please note that I was running low pressures that sucked up some of the tire height.

The Q factor is just about where it needs to be with the rear stays. I had a couple of hits on the drive side, but soon adjusted. I'm not sure what would happen with a narrower Q. I don't think that I'll be looking for anything other than a 177 rear.

Expect to drop a couple of more pounds when my Schraeder valves come in and I go tubeless. 

This is by far the best bike I've had. 

Loved the way it rode and handled. Was well worth the purchase. Glad I started following this thread.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Bumpyride said:


> Aside from seeing a 4.8" tire in front of me, there was no indication of handling that would be any different than having a 2+" tire except for everything that a fat tire is great for.
> 
> This is by far the best bike I've had.
> 
> Loved the way it rode and handled. Was well worth the purchase. Glad I started following this thread.


Congrats. I concur w/ your take and really am digging mine too. It's good to hear of others who get this bike and are enjoying it. Not sure if you are a wheelie guy but, if you are, you are in for a treat cause it wheelies like mad. Cheers.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

SRAM GX Eagle 165 cranks are sweet, I’ve got one set, the second set is on order from Germany, still not available in the states.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Just checking in here for a long-term update. I built this bike in early February (see my posts on the 2nd page of this thread) and it has been the only mtb I've ridden all year, other than rentals while on vacation. I'm running it as 29+ with a 120mm Bluto, and this setup is awesome. 

There was some discussion a few months ago here about the geometry and how it compares to other fat bikes like the Beargrease. The figures that are truly unique to this frame are the low bottom bracket height, the long front-center, and the steep seat-tube angle. We already know about that crazy short rear-center! Yes, you can run other frames 29+ with a 120mm fork, but you'll end up with a stupid high BB and slack STA, which would make keeping the front tire down a nightmare on climbs. The long front-center provides excellent stability and downhill confidence, while the short rear allows you to still manage the really tight switchbacks up and down (the trails around here are very tight).

From a 29+ perspective, I think the only frame better out there at the moment is the Trek Stache, because of the narrower q-factor, and the lower weight of carbon. But then of course you won't be able to run fat-bike tires, and a lot of people complain of excessive rear triangle flex when climbing out of the saddle (I'm a clyde, so that's a real concern for me). The Stache geometry numbers are almost identical to the Wozo. The head tube angle is spot-on, IMHO. Any slacker would slow the steering too much. Remember, big tires- whether you are running 26x4.5+, 27.5x3.5+, or 29x3.0- all substantially increase the mechanical trail of the bike compared to "normal" 29" or even 27.5x3.0 tires. Sure, a degree slacker would still work okay, but at that point you'll experience diminishing returns. 

In case you couldn't tell, I'm smitten with this frame. The only thing I would ask Kona to change is to thread the BB shell.


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## Whahappen (Jul 15, 2016)

Bumpyride said:


> Got the bike and first impressions are exactly what I thought it would be. Just short trial rides to get dialed in. As far as standover goes, I would not want it to be any higher, and again, I'm a solid 30" inseam. I'm using all of a 400 mm seatpost on the small, and there's just enough room, but I'd welcome another 2" like on my other bikes.
> 
> Bike is fun and was 32.8 lbs stock w/o pedals (that's point 8, not 8 oz.). Don't know what tubes are in it, but anticipating another 2 lbs. off depending on tubes.
> 
> ...


Awesome to hear your two reports! Glad you're liking the bike. I got my buddy into the shop yesterday to ride their large, and he also really enjoyed the bike vs. the other fatbikes hes ridden. So while we were both ready to order, a medium for him and a small for me, it seems smalls are hard to get. So the shop will be calling around Monday morning to hopefully get a hold of one, then we can talk numbers. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Whahappen said:


> Awesome to hear your two reports! Glad you're liking the bike. I got my buddy into the shop yesterday to ride their large, and he also really enjoyed the bike vs. the other fatbikes hes ridden. So while we were both ready to order, a medium for him and a small for me, it seems smalls are hard to get. So the shop will be calling around Monday morning to hopefully get a hold of one, then we can talk numbers. Keeping my fingers crossed.


Best of luck. The shop that I bought mine from said that any anyone that wanted one should get on the list asap, and I was looking for an XL for a friend of mine. Was lucky enough to get the last small in a 2017.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Side note: Tubes out of Wozo 30.7 oz for the pair. 32.2 lbs complete bike with 400mm Thudbuster, Pedals, Swept Handlebars and Ergon grips. No Stans yet. Dropper post should be the same weight.


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## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

rvercoe said:


> Sick Custom Wozo build: https://factoryjackson.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Kona-Wozo-Garry-Davoren-Bike-Check-4.jpg


^^^
Older post, worth revisiting the link.
Cool build


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Stopbreakindown said:


> ^^^
> Older post, worth revisiting the link.
> Cool build


I like the orange bits and the paint but otherwise it's just ok.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

A little stoke time... So I think the Wozo is going to kill my HT Plus bike off...it's a better trail experience. Probably a myriad of reasons - fit, geo, capabilities but the bottom line is it's more *fun* - rode the plus today and felt like it was going back in time...not in a good Dr. Who way. This is coming from a guy who figured he'd fart around a little in the snow here and there and maybe ride some Arroyos a couple of times a year but never in a million years thought I'd want to reach for this bike to trail ride (like all the time). oh man....

Edit: local pics


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Carl Mega said:


> A little stoke time... So I think the Wozo is going to kill my HT Plus bike off...it's a better trail experience. Probably a myriad of reasons - fit, geo, capabilities but the bottom line is it's more *fun* - rode the plus today and felt like it was going back in time...not in a good Dr. Who way. This is coming from a guy who figured he'd fart around a little in the snow here and there and maybe ride some Arroyos a couple of times a year but never in a million years thought I'd want to reach for this bike to trail ride (like all the time). oh man....
> 
> Edit: local pics


Build up another wheelset for the Wozo in a + size-way, and ditch the hardtail. It's what I've done, and am quite happy with the arrangement!

27.5 2.8 Magic Mary front/2.6 Nobby Nic rear built up on the same hubs, but 34mmIW rims vs. the 65mm Marge Lites on the fat wheels makes a huge difference! Same cassette and rotors on on both wheels, all lines up and makes for a super fast and easy swap.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Was pleased to find the Jumbo Jim 4.8 fit in back with the sliders all the way back! I won't mind the longer stays with these on/in snow anyhow. Way lighter and faster than the Floater it replaced, though I'm sure the traction may lack a bit. Also picked up a 4.4 JJ, but really don't think it'll get much use.









Measures 110mmon a Marge Lite. The Bud up front on same rims is 115mm.










If I want a skinnier non-snow setup, I just toss the mid-fat wheels/tires on and move the sliders back up. A few seconds with a 6mm and it's good to go.


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## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

Anybody looking for a Large 2017 Wozo(green color) there is one left sitting on the showroom floor up here in Ontario Canada at the bike shop Outspokin Cycle in London Ontario Canada!!! If you want it give them a call!!


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

scrublover said:


> 27.5 2.8 Magic Mary front/2.6 Nobby Nic rear built up on the same hubs, but 34mmIW rims vs. the 65mm Marge Lites on the fat wheels makes a huge difference!


Holy Low Bottom Bracket, Batman! No way I could get away with that. I'm looking at 27.5x3.8 as the smallest diameter rear wheel but would like to try 29x3 also.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

david.p said:


> Holy Low Bottom Bracket, Batman! No way I could get away with that. I'm looking at 27.5x3.8 as the smallest diameter rear wheel but would like to try 29x3 also.


Nah. Not an issue.










A few mm lower than stock. The bike sags down less with the skinny tires compared to the fats. Having my Bluto at 120mm vs. stock 100mm is a help.

All said and done, on the bike riding - my functional BBH is within a couple mm on both setups.

Riding a low BBH is like any other bike skill. Picking good lines, moving the bike around, timing pedals becomes more important.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Glad it works for you! I'm sitting about an inch higher and the bash guard is a necessity.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

The important thing here guys is that you have the same measuring tape. A festivus miracle!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

If you run a longer fork and shorter cranks, pedal strike is not a problem. Mastodon 140mm and GX Eagle 165mm 

Festivus for the rest of us!


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you run a longer fork and shorter cranks, pedal strike is not a problem. Mastodon 140mm and GX Eagle 165mm
> 
> Festivus for the rest of us!


Festivus pole is completely decorated.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I don't remember seeing mention in this thread, anyone running a frame bag, half or full?

Looking for medium and large frames.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

6thElement said:


> I don't remember seeing mention in this thread, anyone running a frame bag, half or full?
> 
> Looking for medium and large frames.


I'm running one from a med Pugs on a med Wozo, it fits just ok.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

bdundee said:


> I'm running one from a med Pugs on a med Wozo, it fits just ok.


Thanks - I'd glanced at those and had meant to hunt for the measurements as it looked a good shape.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

6thElement said:


> Thanks - I'd glanced at those and had meant to hunt for the measurements as it looked a good shape.


I would have to look at the measurements as a size down might work better but it's what I had. Like I said it just fits ok, gets the job done but not perfect my no means.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

bdundee said:


> I would have to look at the measurements as a size down might work better but it's what I had. Like I said it just fits ok, gets the job done but not perfect my no means.


The small measurements look better for the medium Wozo, medium for the large.

http://surlybikes.com/uploads/downloads/20246_SUR_Bag_Fit_Chart_v2.pdf


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

After a bunch of saddle time I'm really liking mine set at 120mm travel with a -1 deg headset. 140mm travel with a -1 is just a tad slack for this hombre but thinking it might be nice next summer for park riding.


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Revelate/Surly size #3 bag (taken off a Medium Pugsley) fits well on a Large Wozo frame. I am going to try the same one on my Medium frame.

Tried a lot of other frame bags (Salsa etc.) but none really fit my Medium Wozo all that well.

Interested to hear what solutions others have found.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

PCT said:


> Revelate/Surly size #3 bag (taken off a Medium Pugsley) fits well on a Large Wozo frame. I am going to try the same one on my Medium frame.
> 
> Tried a lot of other frame bags (Salsa etc.) but none really fit my Medium Wozo all that well.
> 
> Interested to hear what solutions others have found.


I've got a #3 Surly bag on the way for my large, trying to decide if I should get a #1 for my wifes medium.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

6thElement said:


> I've got a #3 Surly bag on the way for my large, trying to decide if I should get a #1 for my wifes medium.


I don't know, just looking mine over I would prolly go with a 2?? Tough call but 8" just seems awful short for the seat tube measurement. Mine does follow the curve in the seat tube fairly nicely, I will take some better pics when I get home in a few hours.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

bdundee said:


> I don't know, just looking mine over I would prolly go with a 2?? Tough call but 8" just seems awful short for the seat tube measurement. Mine does follow the curve in the seat tube fairly nicely, I will take some better pics when I get home in a few hours.


I was worried that the 17.5" along the top and 10.5" along the seat tube might be too much for a #2 on a medium Wozo, I've measured it to 17 and 10" inside the front triangle. Definitely interested to see more pics of yours and to know which size bag it is you have, thank you.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

6thElement said:


> Definitely interested to see more pics of yours and to know which size bag it is you have, thank you.


This is a helpful discussion... Thanks. Didn't know the Surly and Revelate were the same; I was looking a the Ranger. Anyway - more than likely - if I go for this level of bling, I'll probably do the BedRock Custom. They are local and will take measurements directly on your bike to construct your bag. I like that. Any one using one? I'd assume the custom fit should be pretty legit...


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

As far as I can tell this is a 3 from the measurements. I know it was ordered for a med pugs back in 2011 and on a med Wozo. I'm pretty sure if I had money burning a hole in my pocket I would prolly replace it with a 2 but it works fine. Sorry some are sideways but should give you a good idea of fit, hopefully.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bdundee again.




I've a #3 on the way for my large and a #2 for the medium that's my wifes.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

6thElement said:


> I've a #3 on the way for my large and a #2 for the medium that's my wifes.


Cool hopefully it works out, keep us posted please.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

#2 Surly is a near perfect fit for the medium Wozo.

Still waiting for my #3 to turn up for my large.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

6thElement said:


> #2 Surly is a near perfect fit for the medium Wozo.
> 
> Still waiting for my #3 to turn up for my large.


Good to know, thanks for the update!!


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## Whahappen (Jul 15, 2016)

*New Wozo day!*

My small Wozo finally made it! Was delayed a couple days due to weather it seems, but now its finally here, and I took it on its maiden ride in a (short) snow storm!









Yep, its box stock for now, I'll probably swap some small stuff around here and there and just enjoy it for the time being. Tonight was a pretty slow roll, so I still have some getting used to it at higher speed. Thanks for the responses about picking the size, a small fits pretty good from the get go, very similar to the Fuel EX 8. Supposedly it was the last 2018 small frame Wozo Kona had available. So if more smalls pop up later, they made another run, or my bike shop was BSing me .

Anyways, a couple questions: 
1. Any better snow tires than the Minions? The deeper fresh powder wasn't their strong suit. Not that I'll run right out and buy new tires, but if I see something on the facebook traders, I'd keep an eye out.

2. 165mm cranks, is an Eagle set ok to run on an 11 speed, or am I looking for an 11 speed specific set? Seems only the chain ring would be different, but there's a myriad of different crank sets, want the correct one the first try.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes on the cranks, I run em on my Fatillac, they are 10-11-12sp compatible. But, they are on backorder everywhere; I'm waiting on a set for my Wozo from Germany (Bike24), ETA 12/20/2017.

I'd say order a set and wait.

Tires are personal preference. I like the Minions, you just need to run them low PSI. If you have a 4.0 in the rear, that will definitely limit traction, maybe go with something wider and softer?



Whahappen said:


> My small Wozo finally made it! Was delayed a couple days due to weather it seems, but now its finally here, and I took it on its maiden ride in a (short) snow storm!
> 
> View attachment 1172303
> 
> ...


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## Tiboy (Dec 10, 2012)

Congrats on the new ride, enjoy! I was considering buying a small Wozo, and yes they are out of stock. Only frame sets available through Bikeman. I guess I'll be staying with my current 9:zero:7 this season as building a Wozo frame up is out of my budget



Whahappen said:


> My small Wozo finally made it! Was delayed a couple days due to weather it seems, but now its finally here, and I took it on its maiden ride in a (short) snow storm!
> 
> View attachment 1172303
> 
> ...


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

#3 Surly frame bag is a near perfect fit for the large Wozo.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Finally got out on my Wozo for the first time yesterday and had a blast in the snow. My wife has been loving riding hers for the last couple of weeks too.

I've a spare HG (Shimano) freehub from the stock wheels if anyone needs a spare at reasonable cost.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Building my Large Wozo for the kid, 29+, Mastodon Comp STD 140mm, lots of bin parts, she's gonna be a big ride! Pics later if I can figure out how to reduce the size on my phone


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## Wilbyman (Dec 13, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> Building my Large Wozo for the kid, 29+, Mastodon Comp STD 140mm, lots of bin parts, she's gonna be a big ride! Pics later if I can figure out how to reduce the size on my phone


I think you said you are on a medium? I am 5'11" with long arms a torso. Kind of curious what size wozo I would run with a short stem. I have a L Wednesday.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm 6', 32" inseam, long arms, riding a medium with a 60mm stem, and the seat centered.

The large is long and tall, stand over with 29+ and 27.5 x 4.5 has the top tube pressed into the boyz.

I rode a large with a 40mm stem and the seat all the way forward, it was definitely rideable, but stand over in the snow was bad and it really stretched me out; ie lots of weight on my hands.

In all other bikes I ride a large.

My son is 6'5", 34-35" inseam, I built him a large with 29+, he'll ride with a 45-60mm stem.



Wilbyman said:


> I think you said you are on a medium? I am 5'11" with long arms a torso. Kind of curious what size wozo I would run with a short stem. I have a L Wednesday.


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## Wilbyman (Dec 13, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm 6', 32" inseam, long arms, riding a medium with a 60mm stem, and the seat centered.
> 
> The large is long and tall, stand over with 29+ and 27.5 x 4.5 has the top tube pressed into the boyz.
> 
> ...


Thanks, we are probably pretty close in fit. L sounds a bit big.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Wilbyman said:


> Thanks, we are probably pretty close in fit. L sounds a bit big.


When I first built a Wozo, I was running a 100mm fork, it really didn't feel that tall. When I bumped to a 120mm fork and started running taller wheels, things got dicey. Now that I'm running a 140mm fork, there's no way I can ride a large and still have a sex life


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

My wife is 5'11" on a medium, saddle slightly back, I'm 6'2" on a large. Stock seatpost wasn't long enough for me as it's only ~340mm, a 367mm would have worked.

We both went to E.13 droppers though, so I guess I should sell the stock Kona seatpost and saddles.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Just installed my second E.13 post, really easy install, work great, fair price.



6thElement said:


> My wife is 5'11" on a medium, saddle slightly back, I'm 6'2" on a large. Stock seatpost wasn't long enough for me as it's only ~340mm, a 367mm would have worked.
> 
> We both went to E.13 droppers though, so I guess I should sell the stock Kona seatpost and saddles.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Just installed my second E.13 post, really easy install, work great, fair price.


A little tricky to get a cable end cap on the shifter end of the cable.
My post isn't always locking in place at full height when I raise it either, I need to investigate why.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

6thElement said:


> A little tricky to get a cable end cap on the shifter end of the cable.
> My post isn't always locking in place at full height when I raise it either, I need to investigate why.


Make sure your seat post clamp isn't too tight - reviews I read said this would cause problems with full extension.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

6thElement said:


> A little tricky to get a cable end cap on the shifter end of the cable.
> My post isn't always locking in place at full height when I raise it either, I need to investigate why.


Yeah, It's a little fiddle, but it's nothing compared to a 9.8.

Full return works best from a couple positions down. I'd like a stronger spring.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

The perfect post isn't sounding so perfect, not sure if such a dropper exists yet??

Edit: That would be cool if they would offer different springs.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

There's supposedly a stronger spring available - I'm going to check with them after the holidays to see if mine already has it.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

6thElement said:


> There's supposedly a stronger spring available - I'm going to check with them after the holidays to see if mine already has it.


If not could a person add a small spacer on the top or bottom of the factory spring? Just thinking out loud.


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## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

bdundee said:


> The perfect post isn't sounding so perfect, not sure if such a dropper exists yet??
> 
> Edit: That would be cool if they would offer different springs.


The Bike yoke Revive is the way to go.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

After a good few months on my Wozo and mostly in the snow I can say that this is the most fun I have ever had on a fat bike and I have had a bunch.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I can't afford to pay you every time you pimp the Wozo 



bdundee said:


> After a good few months on my Wozo and mostly in the snow I can say that this is the most fun I have ever had on a fat bike and I have had a bunch.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> I can't afford to pay you every time you pimp the Wozo


HA!!

I swear this thing is part kangaroo.


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## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

bdundee said:


> After a good few months on my Wozo and mostly in the snow I can say that this is the most fun I have ever had on a fat bike and I have had a bunch.


Damnit Man! I've been on the fence about leaving the steel Bully behind and jumping on the Wozo. If it rides anything like a EPO/Honzo, but on snow, I know I'd love it. Next season it'll be mine. :thumbsup:


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Stopbreakindown said:


> Damnit Man! I've been on the fence about leaving the steel Bully behind and jumping on the Wozo. If it rides anything like a EPO/Honzo, but on snow, I know I'd love it. Next season it'll be mine. :thumbsup:


Yeah I really liked ti bully and it did super great in the fluff but this bike is a lot more fun on groomed singletrack. Heck it seems a little more jumpy than my HD3. So playful the other day I got pretty good air going up a short climb. I had a Process 111 for awhile and Kona just has their geometry dialed.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> View attachment 1173919
> 
> 
> Building my Large Wozo for the kid, 29+, Mastodon Comp STD 140mm, lots of bin parts, she's gonna be a big ride! Pics later if I can figure out how to reduce the size on my phone


I'd love to see a couple pics of your boy on the bike. He's a tad taller than me (I'm 6'4" ~36" inseam). I've read over this thread a couple times and the Wozo looks awesome for sure but like many people the sizing is throwing me a bit. I normally ride a XL/20"+ST/the biggest they make so I naturally looked at the XL Wozo first but the posts here really make me think I may want to ride a large before deciding.

Heck, the large is bigger (top tube and reach) than both my current fat and skinny XL bikes! But, I feel cramped on both of those with a 50mm stem and I feel a bit wonky with 70-80mm stems. Wonky being a technical term for it steers funny and I tend to get too much weight over the front in turn with the long stems.

I'm sure I could ride either but choices really complicate things.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Troy Carter said:


> Heck, the large is bigger (top tube and reach) than both my current fat and skinny XL bikes! But, I feel cramped on both of those with a 50mm stem and I feel a bit wonky with 70-80mm stems.


Would recommend sizing by top tube length / reach but in general size down on the Wozo. My M Wozo is also longer in the top tube than my other L sized bikes and fits great despite needing a 400mm seat post. The upside is the stand over which is needed if you ride in deep snow.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No pics that would help your decision, but he was comfortable on the bike and didn't look cramped.

The Wozo is really long and has a fairly high standover, so going a size down is a good idea. I rode a large for a season, it was doable, but I was really stretched out and standover was an issue with tall wheels and in the snow.

The Medium Wozo has a longer reach by an inch than my large Fatillac. I ran a 35mm stem on my large Wozo and I run a 60mm stem on my medium Wozo, so reach is nearly the same, but I gained some standover.

I'm pretty sure you can run a 175mm dropper on a large Wozo if you have enough inseam.

I think I built my son's Wozo with a 45mm stem. He had the choice to go shorter or longer, but that's what he wanted.



Troy Carter said:


> I'd love to see a couple pics of your boy on the bike. He's a tad taller than me (I'm 6'4" ~36" inseam). I've read over this thread a couple times and the Wozo looks awesome for sure but like many people the sizing is throwing me a bit. I normally ride a XL/20"+ST/the biggest they make so I naturally looked at the XL Wozo first but the posts here really make me think I may want to ride a large before deciding.
> 
> Heck, the large is bigger (top tube and reach) than both my current fat and skinny XL bikes! But, I feel cramped on both of those with a 50mm stem and I feel a bit wonky with 70-80mm stems. Wonky being a technical term for it steers funny and I tend to get too much weight over the front in turn with the long stems.
> 
> I'm sure I could ride either but choices really complicate things.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Thanks for the info guys.

Standover isn't an issue for me most times. I'm never, or rarely, in more than enough snow to cover and pack the trails around here. My large Felt DD with a 120mm bluto had a ridiculous standover and it was never an issue for me. 

The longer dropper is attractive too. I have a DJ bike and still ride some BMX (poorly) so really like having the seat dropped way down there to mess around but it's not an absolute requirement. The 125mm dropper I have has been acceptable for my fat biking needs so far.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> I can't afford to pay you every time you pimp the Wozo


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

If you ride DJ, then you're gonna want this bike in a large.

Run it with a big fork (140mm) and some 27.5 x 3.8 Hodags and it'll be your everything bike. It's a killer bike for getting rowdy.

I ride the Wozo quite a bit even though I have a Fatillac. The Wozo is just a really fun bike.

The Hodags are on the Fatillac, so I have Barbe 4.5's mounted now, they really aren't all purpose tire; we're low on snow this year, so I'll probably get something different...



Troy Carter said:


> Thanks for the info guys.
> 
> Standover isn't an issue for me most times. I'm never, or rarely, in more than enough snow to cover and pack the trails around here. My large Felt DD with a 120mm bluto had a ridiculous standover and it was never an issue for me.
> 
> The longer dropper is attractive too. I have a DJ bike and still ride some BMX (poorly) so really like having the seat dropped way down there to mess around but it's not an absolute requirement. The 125mm dropper I have has been acceptable for my fat biking needs so far.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

Carl Mega said:


> Heh - my coworkers would say that I act like I'm retired.
> 
> Anyway - I think I'm close to your Next cranks measurement-wise tho. Originally, I measured from outside of crank arm to the chain stay - figured if comparing apples to apples, this would account for differing thickness of the crank arms themselves (which impacts the Qfactor). Anyway - just measuring inner of crank arm to CS (clearance) is this:
> 
> ...


Don't know if you got this figured out, but some info from another thread. Apparently Turbines are much wider q than Aeffects for Next, and Aeffects are just a a little wider than Next SL.

"Raceface put the q-factor measurements for their cranks in a document here: https://www.raceface.com/media/Crank...chainlines.pdf

One complication: Some of the 2017 Suzi-Q models came with Turbine cranks instead of the Aeffect. In theory that's an upgrade, but in practice that actually makes the q-factor wider by about 4-5mm. On the other hand, the Turbines use the same spindle as the Next cranks, so it would be a relatively simple upgrade to by a Turbine equiped Suzi-Q and swap them with a set of Nexts."


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## dirt-nerd (Aug 12, 2009)

I feel the itch for a new bike and u guys have me thinking wozo. 
I have a beargrease carbon and I have enjoyed the bike but 27.2 seat post really limits dropper options. Sounds like building a Wozo 27.5 fat would be great. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

I don't think I've seen one person who didn't love this bike after buying or riding one. Nurse Ben still has one, if that tells you anything. Go for it!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

..........


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

OK, if you had to have one set of non-snowy condition wheels/tires for you Wozo what would it be and why?

I've started to gather some parts that I know I'll want on a Wozo and plan to build one. I'm still a bit undecided on size but I'll have to pull the trigger eventually. And as I build stuff the wheel/tire options are now running in my head.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

27.5x50mm rims with Hodags.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Are you thinking 29+ or B Fat?


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

I'm not sure about 29+ or B fat but one of the two rather than 26" fat. I already have plenty of 26" fat stuff and I want this bike mostly for a non-snow bike with the benefit of fat tires. 

I plan to carry over my winter 26fat stuff to this bike if needed so I can compromise on winter worthiness if that means I can get something more suited to dirt.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

27+ is fun and doable, but you'll get some pedal strike. I run 165mm cranks to minimize the issue. I think this wheel size is the most agile and playful, it's what I ride most of the time.

29+ is a good choice, certainly long legged enough for bridging obstacles, works well with low B.B. I built a Wozo for son with 29+ and he loves it.

B Fat is pretty good for most anything, but it's fatter and slower, closer to a fat tire, so maybe too much overlap with 26" fat.

If I could choose two sizes I'd go with 27+ and B Fat, ditch the 26, swap tires on the fatter rims depending on the season (3.8/4.5), and keep the 27+ for all the other riding you do. Three wheelsets, add 29+.

Need ground clearance and like big wheels, get 29+.

Like long, low, and slack, get 27+.

Like Fat year round, get B Fat.

Can't decide, build a set of 27.5 x 50mm, get two sets of tires and swap between seasons; B Fat and plus.



Troy Carter said:


> I'm not sure about 29+ or B fat but one of the two rather than 26" fat. I already have plenty of 26" fat stuff and I want this bike mostly for a non-snow bike with the benefit of fat tires.
> 
> I plan to carry over my winter 26fat stuff to this bike if needed so I can compromise on winter worthiness if that means I can get something more suited to dirt.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

29+ for sure, with a 120mm fork. Geometry is perfect for it. Go with 35'ish internal width rims and you can even mount 29 x 2.4-2.6 tires if you decide 29+ tires are not your thing (most who try 29+ stick with it though).


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Troy Carter said:


> I'm not sure about 29+ or B fat but one of the two rather than 26" fat. I already have plenty of 26" fat stuff and I want this bike mostly for a non-snow bike with the benefit of fat tires.
> 
> I plan to carry over my winter 26fat stuff to this bike if needed so I can compromise on winter worthiness if that means I can get something more suited to dirt.


29+ will best complement your 26 fat stuff. 29+ is faster, more efficient, more fun if speed thrills are your thing.

B Fat kinda splits the difference. Personally I've punted almost all of my 26 fat stuff. I ride 29+ when I want to cover ground efficiently. I ride B Fat when I want to act like a hooligan and get away with it, or when the snow is reasonably (or very) packed. I ride 26 fat only on the deepest, fluffiest snow days, when making forward progress means 1psi and a lot of patience.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I've run the Wozo at 100mm, 120mm, and at 140mm (current).

If you like to jump and play and you plan to use the Wozo for all mountain riding, I'd go with more travel.

The nice thing about the Mastodon fork is you can set the maximum travel to whatever you want (up to 150mm), then use the fork pump to reduce travel.

29+ would give you the broadest range of uses, but for playfulness the 27+ is better, though bb height is an issue depending on where you ride.


Edit:
I run the SRAM GX Eagle 165mm cranks on both my bikes, pedal strike is reduced, they fit perfect, chainline is great with a Boost offset ring, I can even backpedal in my 46t without the chain skipping off the cog. 

On the Wozo I am using the "screw together" press fit bb by Wheels Manufacturing, works great, no creak whatsoever, spins smooth, a very high quality product.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

OhioPT said:


> 29+ for sure, with a 120mm fork. Geometry is perfect for it. Go with 35'ish internal width rims and you can even mount 29 x 2.4-2.6 tires if you decide 29+ tires are not your thing (most who try 29+ stick with it though).


This^^^ 
I'm running a slightly longer 130mm Mastodon Pro Std (541mm A2C) and it's been perfect for me here on the Front Range in CO. I have the stock wheelset with the JJ's and then a 2nd set...29x3's (Chupas) on WTB i35's. I went for the i35's in the event I didn't like the 29+ tires, so I could still dial down to 2.5's if needed and still maintain a respectable BB height, but I've gotten on real well with the Chupas, so no plans to move to a smaller tire come spring/summer. I tried + tires on a longer travel 27.5 and hated it, but on a hardtail and in 29+ format it's bomber, fast with the dialed geom of the Wozo. I'm a a year in on this bike now and the versatility of this bike is just so nice. I really, really love this bike...so much more then I thought I would.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Thanks guys. I think I knew I wanted to try the 29+ and this all seals that thought. Here in the midwest the trails are about carrying speed, not rocky or too technical where I ride. So, it looks like I'll be going that way.

I also decided on an XL frame. After looking over the numbers and suggestion so many times and still not quite understanding all of it I took the time and sketch out my current bike and the Wozo in AutoCad. I have never felt like a bike was big enough for me but I'm not generally over the suggested sizing at 6'4" tall. But there's a couple things I'd really like in a bike. I wanted a longer front from crank to bar and more rider area while seated than any of my current bikes. And, the short CS will be much livelier and has become a requirement. So going through this exercise really helped me understand the differences between what I have now and the large vs XL Wozo.

I'm sure my numbers are off a couple mm here and there on my sketch but I can live with the error factors. I learned that you better take every dimension into account when comparing bikes and that it's really easy to overlook some things. Top tube length and reach which are common numbers I see people referring to simply don't tell enough about what's going on with the big picture. Then there is also the unknown of just how good the published geo numbers on each bike are and if they were measured in the same manner from one brand to the next. All this means that I need to consider that my numbers are really +/- a bit but do give a generally good idea of the differences.

I'm not too concerned with standover because I don't ride in truly deep snow. And, my Felt DD had a pretty high top tube that I was able to work with so I'm familiar with the process. So, I didn't concern myself with this when deciding.

Cliff notes of what I'll get out of an XL Wozo:


Moving from a 65mm to 40mm stem will net a 40mm longer crank to bar position (not reach as normally measured on geo charts). I like this because when I stand my arms go almost straight down from my shoulder to the bars, or that's what it feels like anyway. This should give me a better angle on them.
The steeper seat tube moves me forward over the cranks by ~12mm. This will be good because I sometimes feel like I'm pushing the pedals forward on the current bike.
Seat to bar length is about 28mm longer than my current bike with the seat tube angle of the Wozo. That'll stretch me out some but not drastically. I feel a bit too upright on the current bikes.


With the Large Wozo the crank to bar position with a 40mm stem is about 5mm longer than my current bike, not much really. But, the seat to bar is 10mm shorter so a Large Wozo will have a bit less rider room than I have now. I could go back to the 65mm stem like I have now but really I like the shorter stems and want to be on a bike that allows me to use them. I've ridden with a 40 and 50mm quite a bit but they just make all my current bikes too small for me. So, I ordered the XL, done, no going back now.

Did I over think this. Yep, I sure did! Thanks for paying attention if you got this far into rant.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

I built up a B-fat wheelset for the Wozo: DT Swiss hubs to Jackalopes with a Gnarwhal in front (studded with 45nrth XL studs) and a Cake Eater in back (factory studded with Terrene triple crown studs).

As others have said, the Gnarwhal is huge. Newly mounted I measured 111mm knobs and 109mm casing (just about the same width as the Edna 4.3 I was running in the back), the diameter, with XL studs, is 31" (~787mm) - nearly a full inch larger than the Minion FBF 4.8 (~762mm) I was using in front.

So far no contact with the Mantitou STD comp crown but I'm planning on adding 10mm worth of bottom out spacers to be safe.

The Cake Eater measured 97mm knobs and 96mm casing on the 80mm rims - so 3.8 out of the box. At ~760mm diameter it is taller than the Edna (~750mm) and just shy of the Minion 4.8.

Despite the extra 10mm diameter the Cake Eater has more chainstay clearance than the Edna did with the dropouts in the same position due to the narrower width.

Based on the fresh dimensions the 4.5 Gnarwhal just might squeeze in the back, but add studs and stretching and I think you'd be risking a gouged frame. It may be doable on a 65mm rim.

I posted some ride impressions on the Cake Eater here.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I've been running the Gnarwall 4.5 on Jackalopes, fit is fine.

BTW: I'm considering selling my brand new, Mikesee built Barbe 4.5/Jackalope/DT Swiss wheelset. I'm just not riding snow as much as I did in WA, so I'm getting a 29+ wheelset.

Send a PM if interested.



david.p said:


> View attachment 1178880
> 
> 
> I built up a B-fat wheelset for the Wozo: DT Swiss hubs to Jackalopes with a Gnarwhal in front (studded with 45nrth XL studs) and a Cake Eater in back (factory studded with Terrene triple crown studs).
> ...


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> I've been running the Gnarwall 4.5 on Jackalopes, fit is fine.


Ben, are you running Gnarwhals are Barbegazis? I've seen pics of your bike with Barbegazis, didn't know you switched to Gnarwhals. Gnarwhal has same casing as the Barbe but bigger knobs so even less clearance, then add studs.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yeah, Barbes, I was spacing out when I wrote that message.



david.p said:


> Ben, are you running Gnarwhals are Barbegazis? I've seen pics of your bike with Barbegazis, didn't know you switched to Gnarwhals. Gnarwhal has same casing as the Barbe but bigger knobs so even less clearance, then add studs.


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Issues with my Mastodon, so reinstalled the Fox 34. Fits a Flowbeist 4.6 on Marge Lite! Handling is great with 140mm travel. Dunderbeist 4.6 rear was rubbing the chain in lower gears, so back to the VanHelga which does quite well for a 4.0 tire.









Enjoying this bike more every ride. Looking forward to 29+ testing. Never did get comfortable with the 27.5x3.8 FBR/FBF combo.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

PCT said:


> Issues with my Mastodon, so reinstalled the Fox 34. Fits a Flowbeist 4.6 on Marge Lite! Handling is great with 140mm travel. Dunderbeist 4.6 rear was rubbing the chain in lower gears, so back to the VanHelga which does quite well for a 4.0 tire.
> 
> View attachment 1179644


Wow, impressed that fork fits that combo!


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

PCT said:


> Enjoying this bike more every ride. Looking forward to 29+ testing. Never did get comfortable with the 27.5x3.8 FBR/FBF combo.


Cool rig. Can totally relate to the 'enjoying it more every ride' take. Curious about the 27.5 opinion - was it the tires? Something else you didn't like?


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

I've splurged and got a Bike Yoke 185mm dropper on order for my Wozo. It's about 2x the cost I could get a 150mm dropper for but the extra room looks like it will be incredible to have when wanted. I had never heard of Bike Yoke before but the reviews look really good for the them in general and I figure I'm only doing this once if it works as suggested.

And, there is a drawing of the dropper online that I was able to use to confirm that it should fit the XL frame with the seat position I need which I was able to confirm now that I have the frame in hand. I hope my measurements are right!

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Vital-MTB-Face-Off-The-Best-Dropper-Posts,1762


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Carl Mega said:


> Cool rig. Can totally relate to the 'enjoying it more every ride' take. Curious about the 27.5 opinion - was it the tires? Something else you didn't like?


Felt like I couldn't get the B-fat setup dialed in terms of psi and fork tuning. FWIW didn't like them on my Fatillac either. Probably need to further test before throwing in the towel. FBR/FBF on Scrapers are tiiiight, takes me 40 minutes to install/remove a tire, worse than Hodags for that.

Hopeful that 27.5+ or 29+ will be great, ala Big Honzo. Plenty of wheels and tires to play with.


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Been riding my Wozo for 17 months now and absolutely love it! I put a Manitou Mastodon (set at 140) on it last fall and could not be happier with the bike! I've been running a Bud and Nate during the winter and then JJs during the summer and have been planning on switching to Maxxis tires this summer. However, after following this thread I'm now wondering if I should run 29er+ or even 27.5 Fat for summer riding. Bikepacking, Maah Daah Hey 150 style races, and lots of desert and Rocky Mountain riding is what I typically enjoy. I have a Krampus in the quiver now but I love my Wozo more. Thinking having 2 sets of wheels for the Wozo might better serve my needs. What do you all think, 29er+ or 27.5 Fat as a complimentary set of wheels?


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## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

Sell the Krampus and use that money to lace up a really nice 29+ or B-fat wheelset, that's what I'd do.

Still contemplating which format to choose micelf.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

^^ +1
Since you know you like 29+, I'd go there first. Then decide if you want to try 27.5x3.8 later.

I'll probably end up with three wheelsets for my Wozo (27.5x80mm, 27.5x50mm, and 29x45mm).


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

29+ for sure, the 27+ is a pedal dragger even with a 140mm fork.

Down the road you should ditch the 26" for a 27.5 x 50, then you'd have a wheelset to use for 27+ and b fat.

... and sell the Krampus, the Wozo is a far better riding bike in every way.



Bikemusher said:


> Been riding my Wozo for 17 months now and absolutely love it! I put a Manitou Mastodon (set at 140) on it last fall and could not be happier with the bike! I've been running a Bud and Nate during the winter and then JJs during the summer and have been planning on switching to Maxxis tires this summer. However, after following this thread I'm now wondering if I should run 29er+ or even 27.5 Fat for summer riding. Bikepacking, Maah Daah Hey 150 style races, and lots of desert and Rocky Mountain riding is what I typically enjoy. I have a Krampus in the quiver now but I love my Wozo more. Thinking having 2 sets of wheels for the Wozo might better serve my needs. What do you all think, 29er+ or 27.5 Fat as a complimentary set of wheels?


----------



## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Thanks for the input! I'm worried the 27.5 Fat would be too similar to what I already have. The 29+ is appealing for the speed but I sure would miss that big ol' soft back tire. Thinking options are nice. 

You guys that are running your Mastodon at 140 are you also running the same size tires or still 4" in the back and 5" up front? I assume the 29+ would be equal?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

There's no reason to run different tire widths, the stock mixed tired combo is some wierdness Kona did because they spec'd the bike with a rim width that made a 5" rear tire to wide for the frame.

I run the same tire sizes front and rear. You just need to make sure your tire/rim combo is not too wide, for example a Minion 4.8 on a 65mm rim fits fine as does a Barbe 4.5 on an 80mm rim.

The dropouts need to be slid back for bigger wheels, half way for 29+, all the way back for Barbe 4.5, all the way forward for b fats.



Bikemusher said:


> Thanks for the input! I'm worried the 27.5 Fat would be too similar to what I already have. The 29+ is appealing for the speed but I sure would miss that big ol' soft back tire. Thinking options are nice.
> 
> You guys that are running your Mastodon at 140 are you also running the same size tires or still 4" in the back and 5" up front? I assume the 29+ would be equal?


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## captainmorgan (Mar 11, 2006)

Awesome thread!

So I'm jumping into a build feet first blind!

I used to take my Haro DJ to Rays when they were around, but now I've moved and Rays is closed so I sold that bike and sold another to fund a new fatbike DJ around the Wozo. I also really wanted something I could run 2 wheelsets, a 26" 4.5"-ish for the winter, and a 29x3 for the summer.

Basically bought the frame and started sketching out the build. I'm particular to Hayes and Manitou because they are out of Milwaukee too and I've had really really good luck with all their products in the past.

I need help critiquing before I finialize the order and start getting parts.

I wasnt certain if the Mastadon Pro 120 EXT is appropriate or not, or if I could go with just the STD fork. I though running 5" up front would be fine for snow.

Also, on my DJ I had a 34/16 setup, and just based on that and using a gear inch calculation, came up with just shifting to 34/20 gear setup.

I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam.

2018 Kona Wozo L *ordered
ss spacers *orderd
kmc hl810 *ordered
Origin8 Ultim8 Single Speed 6-Bolt & Cassette Cog - 20T *ordered
cane creek 110 zs44 zs56 *ordered

2018 Manitou Mastadon pro ext 120mm
Sun Ringle Mulefut 80 sl front
Sun Ringle Mulefut 80 sl rear
Sun Ringle Duroc 50 29 <------ going to build this into the 29+ wheel
sun ringle src 150 hub
sun ringle src 170 hub
Answer protaper carbon bars
answer ame stem 30mm
answer fall line grips
Hayes prime comp brakes front
Hayes prime comp brakes rear
Hayes L-series rotor 160mm
Hayes L-series rotor 180mm
rim strips
2018 Transfer P-SE, A, Ø 31.6mm, 150mm Drop, Internal Routing, 456mm TLG, AM
2018_17 AM, Transfer Lever Assembly: 1x Remote, Left/Right
Raceface affect sl 175mm 170mm
RaceFace PF121
wolftooth narrow wide cinch 34t
Surly Edna 26 x 4.3
Maxxis Chronicle 29x3.0
wtb volt pro saddle


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No need for EXT, the STD fits 29+, but to be safe you can add a 10mm spacer which is half the added A-C you get from an EXT.

Also, you can increase fork travel to 150mm, then reduce it using a shock pump, so my suggestion is increase travel to 140mm, then play around until you find your sweet spot; I like mine 140mm 

Tire choice: Chronicles are quite possibly the worst 29er tire ever created. Minions, DW, anything but Chronicles.

The Wozo has a very low bb, so I'd suggest 170's at the minimum.

Wheel size...if you want the DJ feel, 27+ is where you want to be. 29+ is a , very, very tall tire, does not ride like a DJ; rides like a 29+. For 27+ I'd highly recomend a 165mm crank; I run SRAM GX.

27.5 x 3 is ~ the same height as a 26 x 4.

29+ is about the same size as a 27.5 x 4.5

You might be able to swing a 175mm dropper.

Single speed? If you insist 



captainmorgan said:


> Awesome thread!
> 
> So I'm jumping into a build feet first blind!
> 
> ...


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I've got a couple of the stock WTB Volt Kona branded saddles available that came off my wife and my Wozo's if you're interested in one for your build.


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## captainmorgan (Mar 11, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> No need for EXT, the STD fits 29+, but to be safe you can add a 10mm spacer which is half the added A-C you get from an EXT.
> 
> Also, you can increase fork travel to 150mm, then reduce it using a shock pump, so my suggestion is increase travel to 140mm, then play around until you find your sweet spot; I like mine 140mm
> 
> ...


Eh, Singlespeed works here, no real elevation to climb, and what there is is short and punchy. If the ratio I have picked out works as expected, I wont even notice it.

The max on the Fox Transfer is 150mm.... so thats the best I can get, I'll play around with insertion on it.

I really was confused on the STD vs EXT

I'll look into the 27.5+ wheels. I know on my FS trail bike, I instantly regretted not getting the 27.5+ size as I wanted high volume tires immediately and maxed out at 2.8"

I'll look into tires too! lol


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Super simple:

The EXT has 20mm longer stanchions than the STD, but this extra length is not usable, all it does is add an inch of tire clearance.

The STD clears 29+ and 5" tires, but it's cutting it close in some combinations. You can take the risk (as I do) or you can add a 10mm spacer to limit compression. In this configuration you have a maximum of 140mm of travel.

The only reason to get an EXT is if you want more A to C, you want more clearance AND you want 150mm travel, or you like the way it looks 



captainmorgan said:


> Eh, Singlespeed works here, no real elevation to climb, and what there is is short and punchy. If the ratio I have picked out works as expected, I wont even notice it.
> 
> The max on the Fox Transfer is 150mm.... so thats the best I can get, I'll play around with insertion on it.
> 
> ...


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

My wozo bottom bracket is worn out. Does anyone know which one I need to order?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

A better one the second time around 

Not RF, e13 is okay. I run SRAM.



GspotRider said:


> My wozo bottom bracket is worn out. Does anyone know which one I need to order?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

GspotRider said:


> My wozo bottom bracket is worn out. Does anyone know which one I need to order?


I usually just replace the bearings with a better quality if possible.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

How many miles have people been getting on the RF BB bearings?


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Anyone have experience with this Wheels Manufacturing "threaded" bottom bracket as an upgrade in their WOZO? https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/bb86-92-outboard-abec-3-bb-for-24mm-shimano-cranks-black.html


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## captainmorgan (Mar 11, 2006)

This is the one that I ordered.

https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-bracke...at-bike-bb-for-24-22mm-sram-cranks-black.html

Ill chime in when I get it installed.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yup, running one now, works great.



rvercoe said:


> Anyone have experience with this Wheels Manufacturing "threaded" bottom bracket as an upgrade in their WOZO? https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/bb86-92-outboard-abec-3-bb-for-24mm-shimano-cranks-black.html


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## TJayL (Aug 27, 2015)

Troy Carter said:


> I've splurged and got a Bike Yoke 185mm dropper on order for my Wozo. It's about 2x the cost I could get a 150mm dropper for but the extra room looks like it will be incredible to have when wanted. I had never heard of Bike Yoke before but the reviews look really good for the them in general and I figure I'm only doing this once if it works as suggested.
> 
> And, there is a drawing of the dropper online that I was able to use to confirm that it should fit the XL frame with the seat position I need which I was able to confirm now that I have the frame in hand. I hope my measurements are right!
> 
> https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Vital-MTB-Face-Off-The-Best-Dropper-Posts,1762


I just put a 125 on my medium Wozo. I wanted the 160 but it wouldn't fit. The seat tube being curved limits the insertion.


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## TJayL (Aug 27, 2015)

Has anyone owned or ridden both the Wozo and the Honzo? How different are they?

I’ve been thinking of building up a 27.5+ wheelset for the Wozo. From everything I’ve read here it will be really low. I’m on the stock bluto. How much will it drop it? Not a lot of technical stuff where I ride. Mostly flow trails. Does 29+ fit the bluto ok?

Then the more I thought about building the wheels, the more I thought maybe another bike makes more sense. That’s where the honzo question comes in. Considering saving the cost of the wheelset, selling my Kona Precept which has barely been ridden since I got the Wozo, and buying either the honzo AL/DL or going all out on the CR DL. 

Once last question. If I do go with a wheelset how easy is switching back and forth. Do the brakes and rear derailleur need adjustment every time you go back and forth?


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

If you see yourself wanting to switch wheels often enough a 2nd bike makes sense. I'm planning on doing mostly seasonal changes with winter B-fat studded tires (4-4.5s on 80mm rims), spring/fall B-fat (3.8s on 50mm rims), and summer 29+ (3" on 45mm rims).

If the wheels use the same rubs and rotors you shouldn't need much/any adjustment after the swap. I'm planning on moving a single cassette between wheels since it won't add much time to the swap.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I tried moving the rear wheel forward in the dropouts on my wife's Wozo earlier and had a big fat fail. The tensioner bolts for sliding dropouts just wouldn't move, is there a knack I'm missing?

With a hex inserted into the end of them (2.5mm I think...) neither of them would move at all, am I supposed to be finding a tiny wrench for the nut instead??


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## TJayL (Aug 27, 2015)

6thElement said:


> I tried moving the rear wheel forward in the dropouts on my wife's Wozo earlier and had a big fat fail. The tensioner bolts for sliding dropouts just wouldn't move, is there a knack I'm missing?
> 
> With a hex inserted into the end of them (2.5mm I think...) neither of them would move at all, am I supposed to be finding a tiny wrench for the nut instead??


I had to double nut mine to get them to move. Take the nut off one, put it on the other tight against the one already on it and turn the inside one. Mine had thread lock on it which kept it from moving easily.

oddly enough I just had a look at mine and the threaded piece and nut is missing from both sides now. Guess the thread lock was doing something. I don't think they serve much purpose though.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Is the frame dropout also threaded to hold the threaded rod?


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## TJayL (Aug 27, 2015)

6thElement said:


> Is the frame dropout also threaded to hold the threaded rod?


Yes, and that's where there was thread lock which made it hard to remove the first time.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I guess I'll just have to try harder...I couldn't find a wrench small enough to attack the nuts during the last attempt.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, I've ridden the Honzo, also had a Taro.

You're talking apples and oranges, Honzo is 29 specific, steel, 73mm bb, etc...

You can ride the Wozo 27+, but you will be low, but whether it's too low kinda depends on where you ride. If you run a long travel fork it will be fine most everywhere.

You don't need a Wozo. Dump the Bluto, get a Mastodon, bump it to 140mm, then get your wheels.

If you want 29+, the Wozo works, but the Honzo doesn't. Big Honzo would work, but honestly a 29+ Wozo with a long travel fork makes more sense since you have that bike now.

I switch wheels all the time, take two sets with me on trips.

Wheel and brake adjustment depends on whether your two wheelsets are alike enough in offset, etc... I generally adjust the brakes each time, derraileur sometimes, but I have two bikes, three wheelsets, and two hub styles.



TJayL said:


> Has anyone owned or ridden both the Wozo and the Honzo? How different are they?
> 
> I've been thinking of building up a 27.5+ wheelset for the Wozo. From everything I've read here it will be really low. I'm on the stock bluto. How much will it drop it? Not a lot of technical stuff where I ride. Mostly flow trails. Does 29+ fit the bluto ok?
> 
> ...


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## PhdPepper (Jun 7, 2016)

POSTED by Nurse Ben: All three of the bikes you picked will ride about the same without suspension, but the Wozo will ride the best with suspension; should you chose to go that route down the road.

Build your bike from a frame set, the OEM builds kinda suck.


Posting here because my question is Wozo specific. 
I have an opportunity to buy the OEM off the shelf Wozo for about $1200 new.... getting a frame and components shipped to Germany would be way more $$. 

I can see a few changes you discuss with the Wozo such as 165mm cranks, the longer travel sus, wheel sets, and so on. 
What in particular do you feel sucks about the OEM builds for the Wozo, and is it something that I could gradually change over time (like the crappy BB after it fails)?


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

PhdPepper said:


> I have an opportunity to buy the OEM off the shelf Wozo for about $1200 new....


While I don't agree that the complete build "kinda sucks", it's not an amazing value for $2500. If you can get a complete for that price, just get it. You can change things as you find them limiting or wear them out.

I built my Wozo from a frame because I wanted to change enough parts to make it worthwhile. I wanted 30t front and 11-46 instead of the 28t and 11-42 on the complete. I wanted a Mastodon instead of a Bluto. I wanted a larger rear tire (Surly Edna 4.3).


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The question begs the answer, ie what parts in the OEM build (any OEM build) ARE worth keeping?

For one, the 26" wheels are neither high quality nor the ideal size. I'd go BFat or 27.5 x 4.5 or 29+

As far as the balance of the bike, NX level drive train and RS cranks are serviceable but entry level. Cockpit is low end stuff. Bluto is not worth having, hard to resell. So really, other than the frame, it's not a groupo I'd build.

Like Davidp said, it's not a great deal. That said, it is a great frame.



PhdPepper said:


> POSTED by Nurse Ben: All three of the bikes you picked will ride about the same without suspension, but the Wozo will ride the best with suspension; should you chose to go that route down the road.
> 
> Build your bike from a frame set, the OEM builds kinda suck.
> 
> ...


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## PhdPepper (Jun 7, 2016)

Fair enough... buying a frame and building up to your (or similar) suggested spec would run at least the same as suggested retail (and probably quite a bit more)... I don't have the luxury of a deep parts bin or deep pockets to buy a higher end build from scratch; my thought at this point is to get the $1200 OEM build, but then gradually replace as I can. 
I suspect some of the elements that feel crappy to you won't feel as crappy to a much less experienced rider such as myself (my bikes are in my sig), but that I will appreciate gradually upgrading the bike as parts break and/or I find I want to go another direction (such as a fairly costly but potentially game-changing wheelset). 
The option of buying a frame and building up from there would mean for me personally probably taking another year to get the funds and parts for such a build. Perhaps not a bad idea, but.... 

TLDR: Ya'll have told me that the frame is the reason to buy the Wozo and pretty much everything else is replaceable. I can start with OEM for a very good price and upgrade over the next couple years and let the bike grow with me. 

Thanks for the input. I'll ponder.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Imho I think $1200 is a smoking good geal for a complete Wozo and personally I would jump on it.


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

At $1200 I wouldn't bat an eye and would definitely purchase the stock build! It is essentially another $600 over the frame only option and you get a complete bike. Also, this gives you the option to upgrade as time and money allow. Lastly, you can keep the extra wheelset as a backup with another set of tires on it if you do decide to go B Fat. I don't own a Wozo but am beginning to wish I did...and might in the not so distant future!!!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

mohrgan said:


> It is essentially another $600 over the frame only option and you get a complete bike.!


Actually only $500 more than $699 frame price now.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Forums are great for gleaning information on your interests. I've learned a lot. One of the problems is that it sows the seeds for discontent. All of a sudden you want something you don't have, and then what you have isn't good enough-even though it is, and there are people that will reinforce that. It's a part of human nature.

The wozo is a fine bike. Everything works. Brakes work, shifters work, drive train works, rims are solid, tires are good, cranks good, chain ring good, cassette works just fine. Bottom bracket may or may not be replaced, but so far, good. Bluto is probably just fine unless you really want to do so major drops. 

All parts will eventually wear out, maybe not for many, many miles, and that's the time to replace.

Fit is a personal thing, and with a complete bike, you have a starting point. If it doesn't fit, without buying things at retail that may or may not work. $1200 for a wozo is an amazing buy.


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

PhdPepper said:


> I have an opportunity to buy the OEM off the shelf Wozo for about $1200 new.... getting a frame and components shipped to Germany would be way more $$.


PhdPepper: That's a great price. If it's not stealing your deal, can you tell me you'll get this from. While I'm not in Germany, German stores often have reasonable shipping costs to Australia.

Thanks Tim


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## Wilbyman (Dec 13, 2016)

Bumpyride said:


> Forums are great for gleaning information on your interests. I've learned a lot. One of the problems is that it sows the seeds for discontent. All of a sudden you want something you don't have, and then what you have isn't good enough-even though it is, and there are people that will reinforce that. It's a part of human nature.


This. +1. Ride bikes have fun...newest tire size, newest fork...not thinking this will change my life.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Bumpyride said:


> $1200 for a wozo is an amazing buy.


No brainer. Ride it as is - upgrade later. Part it out - upgrade now. Either way there is absolutely no reason to not jump on that deal provided you want the Wozo.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

$1200?

Are you sure? That's less than cost, Kona has a very low dealer margin. Like others said, for $1200 it's a good deal, but you're still gonna have s bunch of mediocre parts. Might make sense to part it out and build from the leftovers.

I'm picky, I build my bikes from scratch, even the wheels, so I personally wouldn't keep any parts from an OEM Wozo. If the Wozo came with a Mastodon, 27.5 wheels, and GX drivetrain, that'd be a much better OEM build.



PhdPepper said:


> POSTED by Nurse Ben: All three of the bikes you picked will ride about the same without suspension, but the Wozo will ride the best with suspension; should you chose to go that route down the road.
> 
> Build your bike from a frame set, the OEM builds kinda suck.
> 
> ...


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## PhdPepper (Jun 7, 2016)

Wombat said:


> PhdPepper: That's a great price. If it's not stealing your deal, can you tell me you'll get this from. While I'm not in Germany, German stores often have reasonable shipping costs to Australia.
> 
> Thanks Tim





Carl Mega said:


> No brainer. Ride it as is - upgrade later. Part it out - upgrade now. Either way there is absolutely no reason to not jump on that deal provided you want the Wozo.





Nurse Ben said:


> $1200?
> 
> Are you sure? That's less than cost, Kona has a very low dealer margin. Like others said, for $1200 it's a good deal, but you're still gonna have s bunch of mediocre parts. Might make sense to part it out and build from the leftovers.
> 
> I'm picky, I build my bikes from scratch, even the wheels, so I personally wouldn't keep any parts from an OEM Wozo. If the Wozo came with a Mastodon, 27.5 wheels, and GX drivetrain, that'd be a much better OEM build.


Ok - seems like we're all on the same page at this point 
Yes, I'm sure because it's a military purchase (sorry Wombat) for a very large bulk buy through MWR, and my understanding is that Kona was a little pissed because they also screwed up their price on the Wozos. 
For some reason they're still not moving the fatties so they've dropped the price.... AND I can get a 30% employee discount. Final tally is $1200 USD. 
Unless they sell out in the next month (they've had them for several months), I should be able to pick one up soon. It sounds like the consensus aligns with my thoughts; purchase now, upgrade as I can (can't argue with the desire for better components especially the ones you mention NB).


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

PhdPepper said:


> Ok - seems like we're all on the same page at this point
> Yes, I'm sure because it's a military purchase (sorry Wombat) for a very large bulk buy through MWR, and my understanding is that Kona was a little pissed because they also screwed up their price on the Wozos.
> For some reason they're still not moving the fatties so they've dropped the price.... AND I can get a 30% employee discount. Final tally is $1200 USD.
> Unless they sell out in the next month (they've had them for several months), I should be able to pick one up soon. It sounds like the consensus aligns with my thoughts; purchase now, upgrade as I can (can't argue with the desire for better components especially the ones you mention NB).


Just do it! Ride now and upgrade later! Yes, there is satisfaction in building your own bike from hand selected components but your opportunity to get the Wozo at that price negates all of that.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

$1200? If you don't like it for that money I'll take it off your hands for what you pay. That's a steal.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

OK, finally getting my Wozo together. I don't have any actual trail time on it yet but it feels really nice around the house. It's on 26" fat right now because that's what I had here. I'm waiting on a set of 29+ wheels/tires for it based on some suggestions here.

The Bike Yoke 185mm dropper fits with about 5-10mm to spare for my height (6'-4") on the XL frame. The dropper and lever are very nice but the cable is kinda cheap and holds the kink from shipping a little. Works fine but looks a bit off in spots.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Look at them bars!

You need to get some B Fats on that sucker, waay fun for going fast and hitting big lines.

I got some 29+ coming, decided I was done with fat-fat, just not getting enough snow time these days and I wanna bikepack this year.



Troy Carter said:


> OK, finally getting my Wozo together. I don't have any actual trail time on it yet but it feels really nice around the house. It's on 26" fat right now because that's what I had here. I'm waiting on a set of 29+ wheels/tires for it based on some suggestions here.
> 
> The Bike Yoke 185mm dropper fits with about 5-10mm to spare for my height (6'-4") on the XL frame. The dropper and lever are very nice but the cable is kinda cheap and holds the kink from shipping a little. Works fine but looks a bit off in spots.
> 
> ...


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

PhdPepper said:


> Ok - seems like we're all on the same page at this point
> Yes, I'm sure because it's a military purchase (sorry Wombat) for a very large bulk buy through MWR, and my understanding is that Kona was a little pissed because they also screwed up their price on the Wozos.


Thanks for the advice PhdPepper; it's always nice when things fall into place and we get a good deal. I'm sure you'll enjoy the bike.

Tim


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> Look at them bars!
> 
> You need to get some B Fats on that sucker, waay fun for going fast and hitting big lines.
> 
> I got some 29+ coming, decided I was done with fat-fat, just not getting enough snow time these days and I wanna bikepack this year.


Yeah, my poor lower back doesn't tolerate a flat bar anymore. Those big bars give me a good chopper feel! haha

I'm giving the 29+ a try for a while before doing anything else with it. Just need them to show up.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

For those who have tried both 26" and 650B rims on this bike, what were your impressions of both?


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## PhdPepper (Jun 7, 2016)

Wombat said:


> Thanks for the advice PhdPepper; it's always nice when things fall into place and we get a good deal. I'm sure you'll enjoy the bike.
> 
> Tim


Thanks guys!
I should get to pick it up some time next week - I was able to ride one for a second time (just around the shop) yesterday and love the feel of it! 
I look forward to riding it as is... and to plenty more time tweaking it to make it perfect!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)




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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> View attachment 1184528


^ This pic is the 27.5 3.8 BFat DHF? I think I could get used to that.


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## PhdPepper (Jun 7, 2016)

Could almost post this in the sub-1000 dollar thread!
Still can't believe I was able to get the whole setup for the price. 
Well, very excited to drive home with a new Wozo yesterday along with some new gear. 
Was able to play around in the parking lot a bit and really enjoying the ease of hopping and popping compared to my other fatties. Probably will enjoy for this summer mostly as is and then gradually add a 27.5 wheelset and other parts. 
In any case, stoked to be a part of the baby blue Wozo family!


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

That's a fantastic deal, I thought wifey and I had done well paying ~$2k each for ours.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yup, makes for a good all around ride, not heavy, pretty quick, downhills like a bomb, doesn't ride like a fat bike, feels more like a monster BMXer.

I was running a 35mm stem in this pic, just swapped back to a 45mm; it was just a tad twitchy and the front end was coming up a bit too often.

I got a FBF up front and a Crown Gem 3.8 out back, mounted on Duroc 50's.



Carl Mega said:


> ^ This pic is the 27.5 3.8 BFat DHF? I think I could get used to that.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I got a FBF up front and a Crown Gem 3.8 out back, mounted on Duroc 50's.


Thanks man. If you could do it again, would you go with a wider rim? 65mm?

Pretty sure my next bike project will be summer wheelset for Wozo.... at some point anyway.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nah, 50mm is justy right, nice profile, great rim protection, no extra weight.

I ran Minion 4.8's on 65mm Large Marge, it was a good size and it fit the Wozo. I think a 65mm rim on a 3.8" tire would expose the rim to rock shots The B Fat tires are closer to 3.6-3.7 anyhow, so not that big.

I use 40mm for true 3" tires and like the ride, sure I could use 50mm if I wanted, but they work well so that there's no need.



Carl Mega said:


> Thanks man. If you could do it again, would you go with a wider rim? 65mm?
> 
> Pretty sure my next bike project will be summer wheelset for Wozo.... at some point anyway.


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## PhdPepper (Jun 7, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yup, makes for a good all around ride, not heavy, pretty quick, downhills like a bomb, doesn't ride like a fat bike, feels more like a monster BMXer.
> 
> I was running a 35mm stem in this pic, just swapped back to a 45mm; it was just a tad twitchy and the front end was coming up a bit too often.
> 
> I got a FBF up front and a Crown Gem 3.8 out back, mounted on Duroc 50's.





6thElement said:


> That's a fantastic deal, I thought wifey and I had done well paying ~$2k each for ours.


Thanks!



Nurse Ben said:


> Nah, 50mm is justy right, nice profile, great rim protection, no extra weight.
> 
> I ran Minion 4.8's on 65mm Large Marge, it was a good size and it fit the Wozo. I think a 65mm rim on a 3.8" tire would expose the rim to rock shots The B Fat tires are closer to 3.6-3.7 anyhow, so not that big.
> 
> I use 40mm for true 3" tires and like the ride, sure I could use 50mm if I wanted, but they work well so that there's no need.


I thought earlier you had said you really liked the Barbis 4.8 on 65mm? 
Is that just for snow? Since I just got the stock minions on 26x80, I'll want to think carefully and save for my next wheelset - willing to go 27.5x50mm but want to try to get it right the first time


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Ben was running Barbes on 80mm Jackalopes. I went the same way but want studded tires in New England; right now that means Gnarwhals or Cake Eaters.

Common recommendations for B-fat wheelsets are:
27.5x80mm for snow/ice
27.5x50mm for dirt/rocks

I'm loving the Wozo and am doing one of each as well as a 29+ wheelset. It's a bit much but they each have a different purpose.

If you are only doing one B-fat wheelset and want to ride year round I'd probably go 80mm and switch tires (again, I want studs in Winter), though if your snow needs are light then 65mm could work (if you want carbon or can find some Mulefuts). If they were generally avaialable, a 65mm Mulefut rear and 80mm Mulefut front could be a good setup as well.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yeah, 29+ is a bit tall, but for the purposes it serves like long day rides and bikepacking, it's a good wheel size. I ran them on my Beargrease, Mutz (mixxer), and Tandem.

I know folks want to maximize tire "spread" with a wider rim, but tire profile determines ride chanracteristics, so running too wide or too narrow for your application can be a problem.

I had the Barbe 4.5 on Jackalopes, it's a great rim in just the right size for my needs, which were packed/firm snow and mixed conditions. A wider rim might be better for soft snow, but that tire/rim combo was the widest that'll fit in the Wozo.

About the widest rim I'd go with a 3" tire is 50mm. I ran 3" tires on 65mm Large Marge and the sidewall was nearly vertical. I think a 50-60mm rim is the best range for a 3.8. On rim width, I'd go too narrow over to wide as a overly round tire is much better than rim shots and/or the tire not staying seated.

Mike Curiak is the expert, he may chime in...



david.p said:


> Ben was running Barbes on 80mm Jackalopes. I went the same way but want studded tires in New England; right now that means Gnarwhals or Cake Eaters.
> 
> Common recommendations for B-fat wheelsets are:
> 27.5x80mm for snow/ice
> ...


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

david.p said:


> Ben was running Barbes on 80mm Jackalopes. I went the same way but want studded tires in New England; right now that means Gnarwhals or Cake Eaters.
> 
> Common recommendations for B-fat wheelsets are:
> 27.5x80mm for snow/ice
> ...


3 wheelsets is a bit much, but hats off to you! For someone who will only have one wheelset, maybe the best compromise for 4-season use would be the Light Bicycle 27.5" carbon rim (75mm external 70mm internal), as that splits the baby between 65mm and 80mm rims. However, it's probably not wise to put 3.8's that run narrow (such as the Maxxis FBF/FBR) on that wide of a carbon rim, I've read those measure more like a true 3.5", but I'm not sure if those measurements were taken on 65mm or 80mm rims. I think I recall reading in one of these threads that Barbegazi's and Gnarwhals run closer to 4.2" than their stated 4.5" width, is that correct? I've been browsing so many threads lately I can't keep all the number straight...


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

zuuds said:


> 3 wheelsets is a bit much, but hats off to you!


Yeah, though I expect to swap them seasonally - a winter set, a spring/fall set, and a summer set (29+). We'll see how it goes.



> I think I recall reading in one of these threads that Barbegazi's and Gnarwhals run closer to 4.2" than their stated 4.5" width, is that correct?


Close enough, 4.25-4.3ish on an 80mm rim; definitely not a full 4.5".


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

70mm is waay too wide for a 3", probably okay for a 3.8" though honestly it's wider than I'd run.

I had Minion 4.8 on LM 65mm and they were a good fit, ran great through soft snow at low pressures. I know the trend is to run a really wide rim, but that's mostly for maximizing floation and as a substitute for not having a fatter tire, but wider rims aren't necessarilly better.

I think Mike Curiak has run Hodags on Jackalopes, but in my mind that is more an effort to maximize floation with a relatively narrow tire. For three season use, I'd want to maximize the tire's function on dirt; having an overly wide rim would diminish handling and lead to more rim shots.

If I were running one set of wheels, Barbe 4.5 for winter and Hodag 3.8 for summer, I'd be looking at a 60-65mm rim, 70mm is pushing it.

Really, the ideal is two wheelsets with different tires, one for winter season and one for all the other seasons. You could also go inexpesensive on the winter wheels or even used, then go high end on the three season daily drivers since they will get more use. Otherwise, get a second bike 

I have two bikes and three wheelsets; sometimes four wheelsets. I started swapping wheels when I got a Mutz, ultimatley teamed it up with a fat Tandem, woudl take trips and swap wheels based on conditions and what I wanted to ride.

I've continued to swap wheels, sometimes I'll swap day to day, I have even swapped between rides on the same day, though mostly I keep the Fatillac set up with 27+ and the Wozo switchhits. I'm going to Moab next month, two bikes and three wheelsets; they all get used.

I am hoping that Devin will agree to build a custom swingarm for the Fatillac that will fit a 29+, then I'll have the ultimate quiver of two bikes and three wheelsets that fit both bikes.



zuuds said:


> 3 wheelsets is a bit much, but hats off to you! For someone who will only have one wheelset, maybe the best compromise for 4-season use would be the Light Bicycle 27.5" carbon rim (75mm external 70mm internal), as that splits the baby between 65mm and 80mm rims. However, it's probably not wise to put 3.8's that run narrow (such as the Maxxis FBF/FBR) on that wide of a carbon rim, I've read those measure more like a true 3.5", but I'm not sure if those measurements were taken on 65mm or 80mm rims. I think I recall reading in one of these threads that Barbegazi's and Gnarwhals run closer to 4.2" than their stated 4.5" width, is that correct? I've been browsing so many threads lately I can't keep all the number straight...


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> 70mm is waay too wide for a 3", probably okay for a 3.8" though honestly it's wider than I'd run.
> 
> I had Minion 4.8 on LM 65mm and they were a good fit, ran great through soft snow at low pressures. I know the trend is to run a really wide rim, but that's mostly for maximizing floation and as a substitute for not having a fatter tire, but wider rims aren't necessarilly better.
> 
> ...


Makes perfect sense, sounds like 60-65 is the sweet spot, because it's a good match for 3.8's to 4.5's, which is the range of tire sizes I anticipate using. As long as the narrower rim isn't introducing squirmy lightbulb tire profiles (which wouldn't be the case here), the narrower rim has the benefits of less rotational weight and better rim protection.


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Just wanted to chime in about my 29+ experience. I'm running 29+ on my STD Mastodon (set up at 140) and I have plenty of room! What a nice change up from the fat. Options are great and as already discussed, the 29+ along with the fat.... Amazing! BFat is looking like the logical "next step".

Thank you Mike Curiak!


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Super simple:
> 
> The EXT has 20mm longer stanchions than the STD, but this extra length is not usable, all it does is add an inch of tire clearance.
> 
> ...


Would a STD be OK with 27.5 x 4.5" Barbegazi's on a 65mm rim, or is that cutting it too close?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Fine for me, full compression with the fork aired down and I had 5mm clearance.

In an ideal storm, with a mud or snow bound tire at full compression, you would hit.

How much clearance is enough kinda depends on you. I had 5-10mm clearance at the chaninstays with the Barbe 4.5, so it wore the paint down a little.

All that said, I did some very serious downhill on the Barbes with big rocks, big hits, and I never hit.



zuuds said:


> Would a STD be OK with 27.5 x 4.5" Barbegazi's on a 65mm rim, or is that cutting it too close?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Bikemusher said:


> Just wanted to chime in about my 29+ experience. I'm running 29+ on my STD Mastodon (set up at 140) and I have plenty of room! What a nice change up from the fat. Options are great and as already discussed, the 29+ along with the fat.... Amazing! BFat is looking like the logical "next step".
> 
> Thank you Mike Curiak!


Hey -- my pleasure and stuff. More people on 29+ and B Fat is the goal, as 26" just doesn't make that much sense for most of us anymore...


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

I am building up a new XL Wozo - I am 6'5". Please help with a couple items:

What are stock Stem and Crank Length on the full builds?

I am considering a 50mm Stem and 175mm cranks. 

I will be running 27.5x3.8 on 50mm rims and a Manitou Magnum Fork at 120 mm (a2c 527).

My local terrain in colorado is a mix, but not necessarly really loose rock, more solid rock to hump over. I also do not peddle much on the down, more of a cruiser.

Hoping 175 is ok on cranks. Hate to go lower for a number of reasons, primarly comfort and seat height...

Thanks for any insight.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

50mm and 175 on M and L's.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Manitou Magnum? Ya sure it'll clear BFat?

175 cranks? I'd go shorter but only cuz I hate pedal strikes, 170 is better, 165 is ideal.

Stem length is kinda personal, I've run 35, 45, 60, sticking with 45 now. If it's too short you'll feel crowded and you're get more front end lift. Trim out the seat first, then pick your stem length.

My son is 6'5", I put him on a large frame, 29+, 45mm stem, seat centered, nice fit for him.



telejefe said:


> I am building up a new XL Wozo - I am 6'5". Please help with a couple items:
> 
> What are stock Stem and Crank Length on the full builds?
> 
> ...


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

I'd be curious to see if the Magnum fits that tire but I am really happy with the mastodon right now. It looks like way overkill with a smaller 29 x 2.8 plus tire but it'll take any tire you want to put in it.

I've only got about 100 miles on my Wozo with 170mm cranks and I'm really liking them. No real trail use yet but they do feel good on the bike and my knees seem to like them.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Oh, and there is this post showing a fairly large tire just barely fitting but no real follow up.

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-magnum-comp-27-5-27-5-a-1056592.html


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Pretty sure this has been discussed more than a few times. Fox fork has the most liberal fit fir B Fat, according to Mikesee, it was usable, but a tight fit for mud.

Granted the Manitou is a very wide fork and it weighs a bit more, but it's the fork of choice on a fat bike. Get the Fox and you can't go fatter than BFat, probably won't fit 29+; mud issues alone would steer me away.

On a BFat specific bike like the Fatillac, I have considered this fork option, but I like swapping wheels between bikes.

Going with a 50mm rim or less could help, maybe even step down to a 40mm, but then you are compromising rideability



Troy Carter said:


> Oh, and there is this post showing a fairly large tire just barely fitting but no real follow up.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-magnum-comp-27-5-27-5-a-1056592.html


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

Well. Working on a budget build $1500 goal. Anyway. Picked up a decent set of Hugo boost with new hodags for $240 and have a manitou magnum enroute for $160. So worth a try and could use the mag on another bike if it does not work out, and sell the Hugo’s and keep hodags... anyway, rsd sergeant thread shows success with mag and b fat. So a little less weight, little lower a2c, and cheaper. Or it won’t work out...

.. at 36” I seem I prefer my seat as low as possible and will like run 175; pedal strikes are really only an issue on the up which can be timed alright. I have be n on an xl Wozo and it fit awsome, just wanted to confirm lengths to match...but still considering 170...


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

I'm about the same inseam as you on an XL Wozo with 170's. I could run 175's and not complain I'm sure but the 170's are pretty comfy.

But, I blew 1/3's of your budget on a long dropper post too.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yeah, but that extra inch is so worth it! I tried a 175 on a medium and it wasn't even close.

Long cranks are really not as important as people think, we have such a wide gearing range that the need to stand and power through is no longer necessary, for if anything there's more cons with longer cranks, but for some reason the 170/175 lengths have persisted.

We shorten stems, narrow bars, even adjust geo for frame size, but good luck finding shorter cranks than 170! Imagine being a small person, riding a small frame, and the crank choice is 170mm. Does that even make sense?



Troy Carter said:


> I'm about the same inseam as you on an XL Wozo with 170's. I could run 175's and not complain I'm sure but the 170's are pretty comfy.
> 
> But, I blew 1/3's of your budget on a long dropper post too.


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

At 6’5” I have been on too small gear since first khs (1988), finally on a bike with a top close to 700 and reach over 500. It’s a game changer! Sure the bikes are not as “ flickable” but it’s way better to be on a bike that fits! So, I might try the 170 crank. Have 180 on one and 175 on another and notice no difference between then. Benefit is 5 mm on seat vs bar height as tall stack lowers seat is important to me....

Admittedly, budget does not include dropper....that I am sure will last a ride or two....

I appreciate your feedback and can’t wait to try the largest production fatty out there!


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

Hi guys! I am new to fatbiking and have a Wozo ordered. I am considering getting a -2° angleset right away since all the bikes I have had during the last few years had a HA around 65-67°. These bikes were both FS or hardtail used mainly for trail but also bikeparks and enduro races. I think that I will keep the wozo mostly on trails. I also intend to get an extra wheelset but I have not decided yet if it will be 650b or 29er in plus guise or even 2.6 29er, I want first to check the potential of fat tyres and then decide on the extra wheelsize to adapt bb-height and so on...

I went through the thread and did not find anyone using a -2° angleset, I have seen -1° tho. Do you see any disadvantage with having a HA around 66 to 66.5° on a hardtail fatbike?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Personally when I ran mine with the fork at 140 with a -1 and I was surprised that it felt just to slow in the tight twisty stuff. The big tires still take a bit to turn and it was just too much. Now at 120mm with a -1 and really like it. I'm guessing with a normal plus wheelset it would be great tho. Just my experience.

Might get by with a -2 with a 100mm fork, not sure what it would do to the bb height.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

If you run a long travel fork, 140mm, you get 66 deg.

I also like slack, but 66deg feels right.

You could run slacker, but I'd try it stock first.



HappyMTB.fr said:


> Hi guys! I am new to fatbiking and have a Wozo ordered. I am considering getting a -2° angleset right away since all the bikes I have had during the last few years had a HA around 65-67°. These bikes were both FS or hardtail used mainly for trail but also bikeparks and enduro races. I think that I will keep the wozo mostly on trails. I also intend to get an extra wheelset but I have not decided yet if it will be 650b or 29er in plus guise or even 2.6 29er, I want first to check the potential of fat tyres and then decide on the extra wheelsize to adapt bb-height and so on...
> 
> I went through the thread and did not find anyone using a -2° angleset, I have seen -1° tho. Do you see any disadvantage with having a HA around 66 to 66.5° on a hardtail fatbike?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ready for spring, 29+ Chupas on Duroc 40/DT Swiss. Only had an 1/4" clearance, so pulled the wheel back another 1/4". Gotta love the versatility of the Wozo


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

Thank you for the feedback!

Ben: I calculated that the HA would be 67 with a 140mm fork (mastodon std with 551 a2c) it also rises the bb 10mm. With a mastodon at 120mm and a -2 angleset the bb doesn't move and the HA goes to 66.

I will try stock first and see how it goes.


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

Cool. I saw your previous post. Sounds like we ware similar dimensions, so maybe the 170 crank is it....I will also be using 40mm riser bars, but I think yours might be even taller? The fork I bought will have zero extra stack. so will need to make up with the bars.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The Angleset adds 10mm stack height, so it's not a simple fix.

Too slack and your front tire will push in the snow, so not exactly the same as on dirt.

If you ride aggressively, there's no reason to limit the Mastodon to 120mm on a Wozo. Crack that sucker open and bump to 140mm, it's the perfect amount of travel.



HappyMTB.fr said:


> Thank you for the feedback!
> 
> Ben: I calculated that the HA would be 67 with a 140mm fork (mastodon std with 551 a2c) it also rises the bb 10mm. With a mastodon at 120mm and a -2 angleset the bb doesn't move and the HA goes to 66.
> 
> I will try stock first and see how it goes.


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

What angleset are you running? I have good experience with Works Components and their zs56 lower cup has a stack height of 3,5mm which is very similar to most traditional head set.
2.0 Degree EC44-ZS56 Angle Headset - To Suit Tapered Steerer Tube


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Pretty sure this has been discussed more than a few times. Fox fork has the most liberal fit fir B Fat, according to Mikesee, it was usable, but a tight fit for mud


FYI Mike tested the fit on 29+ Magnum. BFat (3.8s on 50mm rim) fits the 27.5+ Magnum fairly well. I have between 1/4-3/8" all the way around the tire.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

HappyMTB.fr said:


> What angleset are you running? I have good experience with Works Components and their zs56 lower cup has a stack height of 3,5mm which is very similar to most traditional head set.
> 2.0 Degree EC44-ZS56 Angle Headset - To Suit Tapered Steerer Tube


I've been running a Cane Creek Angleset for about a year now, first with a Bluto 120mm and now with a Mastodon 120-140mm. My Cane Creek has the external lower bearing cup which adds 10mm (as Nurse Ben pointed out). With the Bluto at 120 I ran it at -1 or -1.5 degrees and it was good. With the Mastodon at 140, I have set it back to 0 degrees, but left it in to take advantage of the extra 10mm of effective A-C height to lift the BB a few more mm and to get roughly an extra .5 degrees of slack that results from the 10mm of sag proof height. Plus the headset has performed excellent and no "creacks" to date, so it is in if I do want to play with angles again for some reason.

I'd say your HA calculations are about spot on as I think mine is about at the 66.5 range with the Angleset at 0 degrees, 10mm bearing cup, and Mastodon at 140mm. This does feel a bit awkward in the snow with my stock 26x4.0/4.8, so I typically drop the Mastodon down to 120mm for that season. For the other 3-seasons with 27.5 fat(3.8) or plus(3.0) tires on and the Mast at full 140mm it feels like perfection. I couldn't be happier. My only want now is a set of 29 x 2.6 wheels/tires for all out fast shredding in full summer mode.

In Conclusion, had the Mastodon existed when I first started messing with the angles on the bike, I would be just fine with that at 140mm and the stock headset for 3-seasons, and dropping it to 120mm for increased winter stability. I hope this helps as it was a long, but fun endeavor incrementally tweaking with the front end of the Wozo to find what is atleast my sweet spot for this bike.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Instead of 2.6 "skinnies", how about some 3" Chupas? Fast and light, not mud tires, but definitely a fun fast tire.

For really ripping on 29+, the Minion 3" is killer.



rvercoe said:


> My only want now is a set of 29 x 2.6 wheels/tires for all out fast shredding in full summer mode.


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

Thanks rvercoe for your detailed answer, I appreciate and specially now while waiting for the bike since I am thinking about an extra wheelset for drier conditions! 2.6 29er or 650b+ is the question, I will not be able to afford both. I am slightly leaning towards 29" wheels since the geometry is spot on for an aggressive hardtail 29er once the head angle has been slacken.

I used this page to calculate the changes in geometry https://bikegeo.muha.cc


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*Suggestions*



Nurse Ben said:


> Instead of 2.6 "skinnies", how about some 3" Chupas? Fast and light, not mud tires, but definitely a fun fast tire.
> 
> For really ripping on 29+, the Minion 3" is killer.


NB, I am open to considering that as an option. After running 27.5x3.0s for a season (Nobby Nics) I was less impressed with plus performance than I thought I would be for the increased rolling resistance and agility. I also didn't appreciate the extra drop in BB height.

My favorite set-up so far though are the Minions 27.5x3.8 (FBF/FBR) on 45mmID rims for 3-season all conditions bomber radness. I can conquer anything on those and the 325mm bb height feels just right (yes, I'm still on 175mm cranks). I feel like the Wozo would thrive with 29ers and that 30mmID rims and 2.6s would give enough plush and traction without too much compromise in speed and agility.

I'll take yours and others thoughts on what an ideal 29er set-up might be for summer/race wheels.

On a related note, I'm heading to Grand Junction this weekend to ride the "Lunch Loops" trails. I can't decide on whether to leave the Minion 3.8s on for no-doubts performance or swap over to the NN 3.0s for a lighter and more agility.

Has anyone ridden Lunch Loops and want to offer their 2 cents on tire preference for the Wozo?


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

rvercoe said:


> NB, I am open to considering that as an option. After running 27.5x3.0s for a season (Nobby Nics) I was less impressed with plus performance than I thought I would be for the increased rolling resistance and agility. I also didn't appreciate the extra drop in BB height.
> 
> My favorite set-up so far though are the Minions 27.5x3.8 (FBF/FBR) on 45mmID rims for 3-season all conditions bomber radness. I can conquer anything on those and the 325mm bb height feels just right (yes, I'm still on 175mm cranks). I feel like the Wozo would thrive with 29ers and that 30mmID rims and 2.6s would give enough plush and traction without too much compromise in speed and agility.
> 
> ...


Trails in GJ are hero dirt right now after some recent moisture. Either choice would work well. I could ride Ikons there right now and not be traction limited. BB height might be the deciding factor depending on how aware of your pedal position you tend to be.


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Have any of you guys tried the Mastodon at 150mm?

I have my flat bar slammed down with a negative rise stem already. I have a feeling raising it up from the 140mm setting will make the front end too light for steep climbs. I question whether I will really benefit from the additional travel too. 

I right now I find I get about 135mm if I land a decent drop. Any of you guys getting closer to the full 140mm travel?


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

I don't believe I've used all 140mm of travel, but I'm also running the IVA at the 120mm setting for a more progressive spring rate than stock - though I have a feeling most people don't bother to adjust the IVA when going from 120mm to 140mm.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks DLd! That helps. I'll keep an eye on how much precip happens out there tomorrow.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Wozo Review from Fat-Bike.com for those interested: https://fat-bike.com/2018/02/2018-kona-wozo-review-by-aristotle-peters/


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

rvercoe said:


> Thanks DLd! That helps. I'll keep an eye on how much precip happens out there tomorrow.


We got some during the day, but word is they were already good to go yesterday evening.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

GspotRider said:


> Have any of you guys tried the Mastodon at 150mm?
> 
> I have my flat bar slammed down with a negative rise stem already. I have a feeling raising it up from the 140mm setting will make the front end too light for steep climbs. I question whether I will really benefit from the additional travel too.
> 
> I right now I find I get about 135mm if I land a decent drop. Any of you guys getting closer to the full 140mm travel?


No Mastodon, but a Bluto @ 120 and still wanted my bars lower.

Syntace Flatforce stem. Looks a bit odd, but gets that bar back down where it sounds you want it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

150mm on my Fatillac and use it all, 140mm on my Wozo and use it all.

If you run a big front end, don't expect it to feel like a road bike.

Nothing wrong with a tall front end, makes it easier to get back and resist gravity, also easier on your back.

You'll get used to it.

If your front end is lifting you've a couple options:

Run a longer stem, slide your seat forward, or adjust your riding style; or all of the above.

Bar height is not the problem.



GspotRider said:


> Have any of you guys tried the Mastodon at 150mm?
> 
> I have my flat bar slammed down with a negative rise stem already. I have a feeling raising it up from the 140mm setting will make the front end too light for steep climbs. I question whether I will really benefit from the additional travel too.
> 
> I right now I find I get about 135mm if I land a decent drop. Any of you guys getting closer to the full 140mm travel?


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Just wanted to reiterate how versatile the Wozo is as I continue to be impressed by this bike. Just finished my 3rd ride with the 29+ and all I can say is WOW! This bike excels with that platform. I call it the Big MF Honzo as it just rips on descents and accelerates on the climbs. Crazy, crazy fun! 2 wheelsets are highly recommended!


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

How are you guys making your 29+ wheels? Custom jobs or are there some off the shelf stuff available?

If custom, could you give me some ideas on what to get that is not too expensive.


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

GspotRider said:


> How are you guys making your 29+ wheels? Custom jobs or are there some off the shelf stuff available?
> 
> If custom, could you give me some ideas on what to get that is not too expensive.


I had mikesee build me up a set. lacemine29.com He's super easy to work with and delivers great customer service. Prices seem fair.


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## Waxtrax84 (May 29, 2010)

I just received a 2018 warranty replacement Wozo frame (cracked welds @seatstay to seat tube on the '17). The bike feels much different now, both are size Medium but after reviewing the geometries between the two years the major difference looks to be fork length (at 1cm longer on the 2018). With both bikes running a 100mm Bluto how can the fork length be any different? 

I am noticing that the new bike doesn't want to manual as easy as its 2017 brother and I'm guessing this must be the reason? Maybe putting a 120mm airshaft into the bluto would make the bike feel a bit better.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Waxtrax84 said:


> I just received a 2018 warranty replacement Wozo frame (cracked welds @seatstay to seat tube on the '17). The bike feels much different now, both are size Medium but after reviewing the geometries between the two years the major difference looks to be fork length (at 1cm longer on the 2018). With both bikes running a 100mm Bluto how can the fork length be any different?
> 
> I am noticing that the new bike doesn't want to manual as easy as its 2017 brother and I'm guessing this must be the reason? Maybe putting a 120mm airshaft into the bluto would make the bike feel a bit better.


I'm pretty sure Kona said the frame is exactly the same and that they just corrected the geometry chart.


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## Waxtrax84 (May 29, 2010)

Thanks bdundee! 

I also contacted Kona's tech support and they mirrored what you said. It was a typo on their end for the fork length and said they would fix it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Same frames, no changes other than colors.

I prefer the green, but apparently somebody in the Kona chain of command had a baby boy and decided powder blue was the new black, go figure.

What boggles my mind is Kona has had two years to get on board with 27.5 BFat and long travel forks like the Mastodon, and yet they're still equipping the Wozo with 26" wheels and a Bluto.



Waxtrax84 said:


> I just received a 2018 warranty replacement Wozo frame (cracked welds @seatstay to seat tube on the '17). The bike feels much different now, both are size Medium but after reviewing the geometries between the two years the major difference looks to be fork length (at 1cm longer on the 2018). With both bikes running a 100mm Bluto how can the fork length be any different?
> 
> I am noticing that the new bike doesn't want to manual as easy as its 2017 brother and I'm guessing this must be the reason? Maybe putting a 120mm airshaft into the bluto would make the bike feel a bit better.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I got one set from Mike Curiak at Lacemine29, the other set I built with parts Mike sent me.

Mike builds a great wheel, but I usually build my own.



Bikemusher said:


> I had mikesee build me up a set. lacemine29.com He's super easy to work with and delivers great customer service. Prices seem fair.


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

*New Build*

Well - I like the blue....the good thing is that kona sells as frame only - so bfat or whatever is an option...

New bike build in progress. Ignore stem, waiting on a short stack dmr 50 (hoping will work with my short steerer).









Building as lighter bfat with hugo wheels, hodags, and manitou magnum comp. waiting on more parts....


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## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

Nice! Where did you source the frame? My local Kona dealer said they were sold out.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I like the brown accents, it mutes the baby powder blue ?



telejefe said:


> Well - I like the blue....the good thing is that kona sells as frame only - so bfat or whatever is an option...
> 
> New bike build in progress. Ignore stem, waiting on a short stack dmr 50 (hoping will work with my short steerer).
> 
> ...


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

Bikeman.com


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Nurse Ben
What boggles my mind is Kona has had two years to get on board with 27.5 BFat and long travel forks like the Mastodon said:


> I was in Bellingham with my wozo with Mastodon and one of the Kona development team employees stopped to chat with me about the Mastodon and set up. He was saying Kona was definitely considering spec'ing the Wozo with the Mastodon. I was surprised they have not made the move yet. Perhaps in the end, the question is how many fat tire riders are looking for even more travel and slacker geo.


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## captainmorgan (Mar 11, 2006)

Finished my build! Already realize I should have gone with 29+ rather than 27.5+ so that will be changing soon. Also have 26x4.3 for snow.


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## centoshred (Sep 22, 2016)

captainmorgan said:


> Finished my build! Already realize I should have gone with 29+ rather than 27.5+ so that will be changing soon. Also have 26x4.3 for snow.
> 
> View attachment 1189275


How do you like it as a single speed? What's your gearing?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Or get shorter cranks.



captainmorgan said:


> Finished my build! Already realize I should have gone with 29+ rather than 27.5+ so that will be changing soon. Also have 26x4.3 for snow.
> 
> View attachment 1189275


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## jonm1211 (Aug 29, 2017)

So, when will Kona update this frame with even more aggressive geo, a steel frame (à la Honzo), and a threaded BB?


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## captainmorgan (Mar 11, 2006)

For the trails here, single speed is perfect. Nothing too hard to climb. I was riding single speed DJ on trails before. It's spring thaw so only pavement riding right now, but so far it seems good. 

I have it set up 32/20 right now and that feels pretty good. I had 34/16 on the DJ with 26" wheels and this feels just about the same.

I have looked at different crank Arms, but there aren't many options for 165 for dm or ss. Seems sram and RaceFace only come in 170 or 175. won't get me a ton of clearance compared to going up a wheel size or tire size.

I do need to dick around with the fork and change the travel.


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

*My Wozo*

Stoked to share my Wozo.

XL frame with awesome tt length and reach. Built up for $1600...

Bike fits great and is super fun. This is my 3rd fat bike and blows the previous two out of the water for fun!!!

Built myself to go 27.5 fat and like that choice. Quite fond of the skinnier fat bike. Personally, I do not enjoy soft snow that much, and this will be perfect for the packed trail conditions I normally ride....

Fun fact for this build was my first wheel re-build. Rebuilt the stands hugo v2 wheel with a BHS hub. So far so good.....No scale, but much lighter than my Fuel Ex set up with durocs and 29x2.8's....

Oh...I am also drinking the short chainstay cool aid. Manualled through more terrain than any other bike I have owned including all my full suspensions.....Can't believe 420 vs 435 on my fuel makes such a big difference, but sum of the geometry I guess....

Still working on pressure with the hugos and hodags...11 psi in rear was not enough for jumps (225 #)....


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

SRAM GX Eagle 165mm, 2017 non DUB, 2018 DUB

SRAM Descendent 165mm, 24mm and DUB



captainmorgan said:


> For the trails here, single speed is perfect. Nothing too hard to climb. I was riding single speed DJ on trails before. It's spring thaw so only pavement riding right now, but so far it seems good.
> 
> I have it set up 32/20 right now and that feels pretty good. I had 34/16 on the DJ with 26" wheels and this feels just about the same.
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

That's exactly the thing, people just don't seem to understand how much short chainstays change the ride. Literally, it makes average riders into superstars!

Not saying you're average or anything 

I love being able to manual on command, esp when I need to manual suddenly; like right before I eat a big rock!



telejefe said:


> Stoked to share my Wozo.
> 
> XL frame with awesome tt length and reach. Built up for $1600...
> 
> ...


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

captainmorgan said:


> Finished my build! Already realize I should have gone with 29+ rather than 27.5+ so that will be changing soon.


Duroc 50s? You could keep the wheels and go with 27.5x3.8-4" tires. I've been loving my Wozo with this setup - 29+ is fine but B-lowfat shines on our singletrack.


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

*Fun!*

Seriously fun bike. Need a dropper ASAP!

Just as fast as my Fuel Ex both up and down my xc/trail trails.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Nice looking ride there and very similar to the build I'll have on mine (except less gears).

I have a used frame inbound to give a go. Thanks Shinkers! 
I know I've bashed on the geometry a little in the past and no way I'd ever ran one with a 120mm Bluto fork, however we have better fork options now and angleset options.


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## TJayL (Aug 27, 2015)

I put a 125 mm Bikeyoke Revive on mine. Excellent dropper, and well worth the money.


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

Still trying to find a frame weight on the Wozo. Does anyone have this?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

deuxdiesel said:


> Still trying to find a frame weight on the Wozo. Does anyone have this?


From post #485 -


Carl Mega said:


> Size Large - weight w/ headset cups, sliders, axle and QR seatpost clamp - 5.6lbs.


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

Awesome- thanks!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

My Kona Wozo size medium will be going up for sale soon. Just a heads up in case anyone is looking. I'll post a sale build in the next week or so. Not willing to part it out, that's too much trouble, just buy it the way it is, pretty much perfect bike as it rolls 

29+ DT Swiss 350/Duroc 40/Chupas 3" (no fat wheels available)
GX 11sp drivertrain, Sunrace 11-46, SRAM GX 165mm cranks
Mastodon Pro 140mm, CC Forty. 
RF 150mm Dropper with sidepaw remote
XT 8000 brakes
Stem choices, flat bar
A seat
No pedals
Not sure on the final outfitting as I'm doing other builds concurrently.

The Wozo is great bike, but I no longer need a fat bike, so I'm going to 29+, likely a Stache.


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## wtrmlnsp (Aug 20, 2016)

I tried to make my Wo into a Wozo for summer, it didn't work... lol

I'm hoping Kona will send me a Wozo frame (and i'll cover the difference) instead.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

deuxdiesel said:


> Still trying to find a frame weight on the Wozo. Does anyone have this?


My Large Wozo frame with seat collar (no axle or headset) is 2387 grams (5.26 pounds)


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Here's the state of my Wozo - this spring has mostly seen time on the B-lowfat wheels (Cake Eaters on Kore Realm P45 rims):









A little while ago I started noticing a creaking in the crank area and figured it was the BB, so I recently ordered the Wheels Manufacturing thread together BB86-FAT to replace the Raceface BB86/92 I used in the original buld.

While removing the crank to install the new BB I found the spider was loose, so this was the actual source of the creak. I'm guessing the repeated knocks on the spider mounted bash ring eventually worked the Cinch lock nut loose. I added blue loctite and retorqued this so hopefully it'll hold.

One of the Raceface BB bearings turned smoothly but the other was pretty gritty so I went ahead and replaced it as planned. I got a little over 200 miles on this bottom bracket, hopefully the thread together BB improves on this.

The Wheels Manufacturing BB installed nicely. I was suprised when the drive side cup slid in without a press and was concerned that the cup would spin while tightening the NDS side, requiring a 2nd BB wrench to install it, but it didn't move and a single wrench did the job.

With the Aeffect cranks I needed 2mm worth of spacers (WM supplies 2x 1mm and 2x .5mm spacers with the BB) on the spindle to eliminate any side-to-side play.

This morning's ride was creak free.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

david.p said:


> This morning's ride was creak free.


Timely post. I, too, just replaced my RF BB on my Affect cranks. Was getting some creaking. I sort of hedged that it was the BB. Things spun freely. I got a lot more mileage than you tho - more like 200+ rides before the creaking started.

Did the wheels mfging angular bearing BB92 FAT thread ins - 24mm. Nifty product. Like you -now I have no noise. I think I only installed 2 .5mm spacers and I don't have play. You need the 48.5mm notched wrench for install - FYI for others. If this product performs as billed, I think it'd be a good choice in the long term. Cross fingers - 20ish rides and alls well.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Here's the initial build on my WoZo. Hopefully I'll get the first ride on it soon, as the forecast looks good for our trail systems to be reopened this week.

27.5 x 3.8 Hodags on 50mm Mulefut rims with a 120mm Magnum Pro 27.5+ fork. Angleset is sitting waiting to be installed, but I figured I'd give it a few rides in stock form before swapping over.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Increase the travel to 140mm, then you won't need the angleset 



nitrousjunky said:


> Here's the initial build on my WoZo. Hopefully I'll get the first ride on it soon, as the forecast looks good for our trail systems to be reopened this week.
> 
> 27.5 x 3.8 Hodags on 50mm Mulefut rims with a 120mm Magnum Pro 27.5+ fork. Angleset is sitting waiting to be installed, but I figured I'd give it a few rides in stock form before swapping over.
> View attachment 1202134
> ...


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Increase the travel to 140mm, then you won't need the angleset


Do have that option as well. However I'm thinking I'd rather keep the fork at 120 and run the CC -.5 or -1.0 cups instead (can get it slacker while increasing standover 10mm less).


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

nitrousjunky said:


> Do have that option as well. However I'm thinking I'd rather keep the fork at 120 and run the CC -.5 or -1.0 cups instead (can get it slacker while increasing standover 10mm less).


That's what I do, I like the little extra standover.


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

nitrousjunky said:


> Here's the initial build on my WoZo. Hopefully I'll get the first ride on it soon, as the forecast looks good for our trail systems to be reopened this week.
> 
> 27.5 x 3.8 Hodags on 50mm Mulefut rims with a 120mm Magnum Pro 27.5+ fork. Angleset is sitting waiting to be installed, but I figured I'd give it a few rides in stock form before swapping over.
> View attachment 1202134
> ...


Nice Stem!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

A little Wozo action


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

bdundee said:


> A little Wozo action


Nice! What wheel and tire combo were you using for your run? Sounded like an I9 rear hub...


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

mohrgan said:


> Nice! What wheel and tire combo were you using for your run? Sounded like an I9 rear hub...


Nextie 90mm hoops with Hope pro 4's and some ole Ground Controls I had laying around. The wheelset is really just my winter set but I couldn't resist taking it for a spin.


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

bdundee said:


> Nextie 90mm hoops with Hope pro 4's and some ole Ground Controls I had laying around. The wheelset is really just my winter set but I couldn't resist taking it for a spin.


Very cool video and great riding! I have been thinking about a Wozo for a while and it would be an addition to my ICT. What size frame do you have and what's your height? I am usually a medium in everything at 5'9" but it appears the reach on the Wozo runs long. I am torn between a medium and a small...


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

mohrgan said:


> Very cool video and great riding! I have been thinking about a Wozo for a while and it would be an addition to my ICT. What size frame do you have and what's your height? I am usually a medium in everything at 5'9" but it appears the reach on the Wozo runs long. I am torn between a medium and a small...


Thanks, the bike is a real hoot for sure. I am 5'9 on a medium with a 45mm stem. I prolly could run a 35mm stem as well but it's what I had in the bin. The fit is great except for the standover for winter riding is a little tight (I have a 32.5' inseam) Here it is with the winter rubber.


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

bdundee said:


> Thanks, the bike is a real hoot for sure. I am 5'9 on a medium with a 45mm stem. I prolly could run a 35mm stem as well but it's what I had in the bin. The fit is great except for the standover for winter riding is a little tight (I have a 32.5' inseam) Here it is with the winter rubber.


Thanks Bob!


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

mohrgan said:


> I am usually a medium in everything at 5'9" but it appears the reach on the Wozo runs long. I am torn between a medium and a small...


The reach on the Wozo does run long. At ~6', I'm usually on a L frame but went with M on the Wozo based on the ETT/Reach, and this is still the longest bike I've ever had. I like the standover for running b-fat and a 140mm fork and fit is great - very comfortable for long stretches of seated pedaling and lots of fun on the twisty, techy NE trails. I'd go with the ETT/Reach that is closest to slightly longer than what you are used to.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*WM Threaded BB?*



Carl Mega said:


> Timely post. I, too, just replaced my RF BB on my Affect cranks. Was getting some creaking. I sort of hedged that it was the BB. Things spun freely. I got a lot more mileage than you tho - more like 200+ rides before the creaking started.
> 
> Did the wheels mfging angular bearing BB92 FAT thread ins - 24mm. Nifty product. Like you -now I have no noise. I think I only installed 2 .5mm spacers and I don't have play. You need the 48.5mm notched wrench for install - FYI for others. If this product performs as billed, I think it'd be a good choice in the long term. Cross fingers - 20ish rides and alls well.


Hi Carla Mega and David P,
It is time to replace the stock Raceface BB on my Wozo with the Affect cranks. Is this the correct Wheels Manufacturing bottom bracket (BB86/92 for Shimano)? 
https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/bb86-92-outboard-abec-3-bb-for-24mm-shimano-cranks-black.html

Thanks for your help.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

rvercoe said:


> Hi Carla Mega and David P,
> It is time to replace the stock Raceface BB on my Wozo with the Affect cranks. Is this the correct Wheels Manufacturing bottom bracket (BB86/92 for Shimano)?
> https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/bb86-92-outboard-abec-3-bb-for-24mm-shimano-cranks-black.html
> 
> Thanks for your help.


You want the fat versions.

Regular bearings:

https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-bracke...at-bike-bb-for-24mm-shimano-cranks-black.html

Or Angular like I got:

https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-bracke...at-bike-bb-for-24mm-shimano-cranks-black.html

Worldwide Cyclery w/ coupon is way to go:

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...MIl_SPlr6L3AIVwrjACh1OFgCgEAQYAiABEgI0pfD_BwE

See if you can dig up a coupon code - a 20% and 15% just expired but they come around.

"Wheels Manufacturing PF41 Angular Contact Fat Bike Bottom Bracket 24mm Cranks"


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Carl Mega said:


> You want the fat versions.
> 
> Awesome, Thanks Carl Mega! That was the deets I needed.
> Cheers!


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*Cracked seatstay welds.*

Greetings,
I just wanted to let fellow WOZO riders know that I had a similar situation as WaxTrax84 with cracked welds where the seatstays join the seattube. Kona was ofcourse really good about warrantying it. They didn't have any WOZO frames available, so they unbuilt a complete bike in order to get me a frame ASAP. Cheers to them for awesome warranty and customer care. I just thought I'd send this FYI out to keep an eye on that area as it may be a vulnerable point (probably the only one if any) on this frame. 
This also means that all my matchy-matchy purple bits are gonna look a bit odd going from the Hulk green to Beast blue. But atleast I still get the rad ride and geo of the WOZO.
Cheers, R-


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

rvercoe,

Thanks for the post! Got me thinking... Took a look at my Wozo and was bummed to see that I had the same cracks, only more significantly cracked, at the weld. Called my "local" Kona dealer (3 hours away) and started the warranty process. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I'll be getting a replacement frame anytime soon. Totally sucks as I had 2 sweet bikepacking trips planned for it this month. Pretty bummed.... This after having my crankshaft literally sheer apart and took that 3 weeks to get figured out. 

Anyone have any idea when the 2019s will be available? Feeling at a loss as I had just whittled down my quiver to 1 bike w/ 3 wheelsets. Doh!


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Dang Bikemusher, Sorry to hear that. That timing is a huge bummer considering the plans you have. 
I had done the same and reduced my stable to just the WOZO as my one-bike quiver-killer with two wheelsets. I will say that I still rode the frame hard while I was waiting for the replacement to arrive. In addition to a couple rides per week, I also raced to X-C races and two short Enduros and the frame held up. 
I don't know how bad your cracks are, but you might still be able to ride it until your new frame arrives. Do you notice any creaking sounds or additional flex when riding? Just a thought. 
Best of luck.


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Thanks, rvercoe! I'll probably end up doing that. Kinda hesitant to go on any backcountry, epics as it is the season but it could be a long walk out. 
Least I will try it on the local town trails.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Thanks for sharing this guys, something to keep a periodic check on.

Otherwise, I'm loving mine!


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Ran across these and thought I'd check to see if I'm missing anything. I have the 2017 stock WOZO with 100mm Bluto. I believe it should all fit, or am I missing anything?

Sunringle Mule Fut 27.5 fat bike rims 80mm with Maxxis Minions FBR/FBF 27.5 X 3.8 120 tpi tires.
This wheel set was used one winter and are taken off a 2018 Salsa Beargrease. Wheels are in great shape, presently set up tubeless.
Hub spacing is 150mm Thru Axle front and 177mm Thru Axle rear.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Bumpyride said:


> Ran across these and thought I'd check to see if I'm missing anything. I have the 2017 stock WOZO with 100mm Bluto. I believe it should all fit, or am I missing anything?
> 
> Sunringle Mule Fut 27.5 fat bike rims 80mm with Maxxis Minions FBR/FBF 27.5 X 3.8 120 tpi tires.
> This wheel set was used one winter and are taken off a 2018 Salsa Beargrease. Wheels are in great shape, presently set up tubeless.
> Hub spacing is 150mm Thru Axle front and 177mm Thru Axle rear.


That set-up should make for a rad ride on the Wozo. I love the 27.5 x 3.8 set-up on the Wozo as an all season shredder. If you can, I recommend bumping that Bluto upto 120mm travel or getting a Manitou Mastodon with 120-140mm travel. That brings out the capabilities of the those wheels and that bike even more.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

rvercoe said:


> That set-up should make for a rad ride on the Wozo. I love the 27.5 x 3.8 set-up on the Wozo as an all season shredder. If you can, I recommend bumping that Bluto upto 120mm travel or getting a Manitou Mastodon with 120-140mm travel. That brings out the capabilities of the those wheels and that bike even more.


Picked up the wheelset and minios the other day. Looked like they just came off the showroom floor. Guy was very reasonable $325 and accommodating. Just have to get them back to the West Coast where the bike is. I'm a light weight and no jumping, so I'm actually considering getting an additional carbon fork to lighten the load. Still haven't buried the bluto with a 30% sag, so I'll live with that for the time being, but will hold the idea of more suspension for a later date.


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## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

*2019 pics spotted*

On the Kona Cog... 2019 spotted... Purple! Mastadon! 27.5 fat by the look of it.

https://cog.konaworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/180730-PJK-1176.jpg


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## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

GusM said:


> On the Kona Cog... 2019 spotted... Purple! Mastadon! 27.5 fat by the look of it.
> 
> https://cog.konaworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/180730-PJK-1176.jpg


And complete bike only from what I hear.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Yep, that's definitely 27.5s on it. Yay for Purple, boo for complete only though. Good to see them moving to a better fork too. 

Mine is hands down, my favorite fat bike to date. I've got over 100 miles on it in stock geometry form (well with 120mm fork) and am slinging the CC Angleset in it tomorrow.


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## htrdoug (Mar 19, 2011)

Hope not,as I would drive to dealer this afternoon and pay full price for a frameset and just wait until it shows,but want to build it my way. But I don't really expect any different of Kona. Colors a 59 year old guy wouldn't really want first 2 years production,then good color but won't sell it to me the way I want. Maybe I will go get $700 out of bank and wave it in front of my dealers nose. Kinda want to build it as a 29+ with a boost fork.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

GusM said:


> On the Kona Cog... 2019 spotted... Purple! Mastadon! 27.5 fat by the look of it.


ooh, me likey... 

*the bike, not the hipster tied shirt...*


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Ready to try out the slacker HT angle. :thumbsup:


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

A bit of extra stack. Look forward to the ride report. I think I am going to bump my 120 to 140. Really to increase stack - I am out of fork steerer and 6'5" could use the extra....


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

telejefe said:


> A bit of extra stack. Look forward to the ride report. I think I am going to bump my 120 to 140. Really to increase stack - I am out of fork steerer and 6'5" could use the extra....


Yep, the change adds around 10-11mm lower cup stack height.

Uh oh, yeah bumping up the travel or bars with more rise sound like your only options (to stay with that fork anyway).


----------



## kelbo (May 13, 2014)

Do you think they updated the geo for 2019 or just color, fork, wheels, etc?


----------



## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

*Warrantied Frame*

Kona sent me one of the demos they had. Tons of appreciation as I was gonna have to wait another month to receive my warrantied frame!!

Super excited that today I had the frames swapped out and now I'm ready to roll. Bike looks sweet!

Not sure why I can't upload photo on my phone. Will add some pics later. 
Colors are inverted from the original green, purple.
Have 29+ on it now. I have BFats as well. Excited to try Bfats 27.5x4.5. Hopeful!....


----------



## kelbo (May 13, 2014)

Well, you can add my name to you "Wozos". I bought one of the last(maybe the last)2018 XL frames as my first ground up build. I just have to see what the hype is all about. Going to build it pretty close to factory spec with the exception of a 120 ext mastodon and possibly an angleset. super short stem and 780-800 bars. Pretty excited.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

kelbo said:


> Well, you can add my name to you "Wozos". I bought one of the last(maybe the last)2018 XL frames as my first ground up build. I just have to see what the hype is all about. Going to build it pretty close to factory spec with the exception of a 120 ext mastodon and possibly an angleset. super short stem and 780-800 bars. Pretty excited.


Hypes worth it. Have fun.


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## kelbo (May 13, 2014)

nitrousjunky said:


> Ready to try out the slacker HT angle. :thumbsup:
> 
> View attachment 1212512


Just to clarify, you've added 50mm to the front of that bike? 120 EXT with an angleset. I'd like to avoid the angleset and just do the 120 EXT and bump to 130 140. I know the angleset works fine, but I still don't like it.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

kelbo said:


> Just to clarify, you've added 50mm to the front of that bike? 120 EXT with an angleset. I'd like to avoid the angleset and just do the 120 EXT and bump to 130 140. I know the angleset works fine, but I still don't like it.


Incorrect. I've added around 16mm. My fork is a 120mm Magnum Pro 27.5+ with 527mm axle to crown length. SO only 6mm longer than the 521mm number used on the geometry chart, then add 10mm for the Angleset EC56 lower cup.


----------



## kelbo (May 13, 2014)

Thank you for the clarification. My first time dealing with this, I'm still trying to grasp all the numbers.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*2019 Wozo on Kona site*

The 2019 Wozo is now up on Kona's website:
KONA BIKES | MTB | FATBIKE | Wozo

+Mastodon w/ 120mm travel
+27.5x65mm wheels
+Maxxis Minions 27.5x3.8 tires

?Frame geo and design unchanged? I can't tell by the looks and their numbers have always been a bit off on their charts for the Wozo.

What's your guess?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

For sale:

2018 Kona Wozo frame, sz medium
SRAM GX Eagle 165mm cranks w/ threaded B.B. and DM chainring
Cane Creek 40 headset
Race Face 150mm Dropper w/ remote
Manitou Mastodon Pro 140mm
29+ wheelset: Duroc 40, DT Swiss 350 Hubs, built by Mike Curiak, very fresh.

Looking for best offer on all or part.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

rvercoe said:


> The 2019 Wozo is now up on Kona's website:
> KONA BIKES | MTB | FATBIKE | Wozo
> 
> +Mastodon w/ 120mm travel
> ...


Looks good and smart changes on their part. I'm betting the frame is exactly the same as 2018.

Interesting that it's yet another bike coming with the 27.5 x 65mm MuleFut rims. Maybe one day Sun Ringle will decide to sell those rims aftermarket.......

Also confirmation that frame only option is gone.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I'm loving the Angleset!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yeah, geo is the same.

Fork spec is Comp only, listed as 100mm in specs, but described as being 120mm.

Nice purple color.

No frame option.



nitrousjunky said:


> Looks good and smart changes on their part. I'm betting the frame is exactly the same as 2018.
> 
> Interesting that it's yet another bike coming with the 27.5 x 65mm MuleFut rims. Maybe one day Sun Ringle will decide to sell those rims aftermarket.......
> 
> Also confirmation that frame only option is gone.


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Those are all smart & positive spec changes. I've liked all the Wozo colors so far and this one is no exception; blue is still my fav of the 3...just sayin'. 

Shame on lacking a frame only option (thus far) but at least the spec is less, ummm, disposable...frankly, it's close to what I ride minus some personal preferences.


----------



## Tiboy (Dec 10, 2012)

rvercoe said:


> The 2019 Wozo is now up on Kona's website:
> KONA BIKES | MTB | FATBIKE | Wozo
> 
> +Mastodon w/ 120mm travel
> ...


Cool revision, definitely lost some fatness with the wheel change


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Bottom bracket height has increased by 17mm or .669 inches. That's a real plus. Wheel base has increased slightly 4mm.

corrected stand over to BB height. Big Mistake, more pedal clearance.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

2018 Kona Wozo, sz medium frame for sale. The frame is packaged with a Cane Creek 40 headset, Wheels Manufacturing SRAM GX thread B.B., and a Race Face 150mm Dropper.

$800 for everything plus shipping and fees.

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2425981/


----------



## jt-nr (Sep 3, 2015)

*2019 wozo*

Picked mine up today!


----------



## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Is it wrong that I envision this when looking at that bike?


----------



## jt-nr (Sep 3, 2015)

Damn You! Ruined it for me and now I can't get the song out of my head


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

jt-nr said:


> Picked mine up today!
> View attachment 1216046


That color is dope!!


----------



## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

jt-nr said:


> Damn You! Ruined it for me and now I can't get the song out of my head


----------



## jt-nr (Sep 3, 2015)

TJayL said:


> I put a 125 mm Bikeyoke Revive on mine. Excellent dropper, and well worth the money.


Is the 125mm the maximum length you could fit? What frame size?
How did you run the cable on the downtube - stick on cable mounts?


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

jt-nr said:


> Picked mine up today!
> View attachment 1216046


damn, and here i thought my old 2016 Farley 7 was too purple.

Congrats on the bike!


----------



## jt-nr (Sep 3, 2015)

Thanks!


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

jt-nr said:


> Is the 125mm the maximum length you could fit? What frame size?
> How did you run the cable on the downtube - stick on cable mounts?


I've got an XL and it takes a 185mm Bike Yoke dropper.


----------



## jt-nr (Sep 3, 2015)

Troy Carter said:


> I've got an XL and it takes a 185mm Bike Yoke dropper.


Thanks, I have the 185 mm on my Process 134 and love the extra length. I'm planning on trying it on the Wozo when I have a chance. I picked up p-clips for the downtube for the cable.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Bumpyride said:


> Bottom bracket height has increased by 17mm or .669 inches. That's a real plus. Wheel base has increased slightly 4mm.


Both these changes are likely the result of the wheel size and fork changes rather than frame geo changing.

Also 2019 colors are the 2017 color way reversed. So will next year be charcoal with cyan decals?


----------



## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

*First major test*

Marji Gesick race trim


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

david.p said:


> Also 2019 colors are the 2017 color way reversed. So will next year be charcoal with cyan decals?


Now that could be sharp.


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Any suggestions for a cassette 11-42 for a 2017 Wozo.


----------



## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Bumpyride said:


> Any suggestions for a cassette 11-42 for a 2017 Wozo.


i broke (2) sunrace spiders, so i suggest not getting them.


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Rodney said:


> i broke (2) sunrace spiders, so i suggest not getting them.


Thanks, they were on the short list. I'll steer clear.


----------



## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm still using the SLX 11-46t that went onto my '18 Wozo frame build-up just about a year ago. I also have the 11-42t on another bike. No issues with either cassette.


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

Rodney said:


> i broke (2) sunrace spiders, so i suggest not getting them.


Which model(s)? I have a couple 11-46T and a 11-50T (all CXM8 or 80) and no issues.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Rodney said:


> i broke (2) sunrace spiders, so i suggest not getting them.


I am not recommending to use Sunrace or not, no clue but there are some people that are just beasts that have a tendency to destroy way more than most. What you destroy normal folks might never have an issue with. Heck I ride hard and I know I am running or have run stuff you sir have destroyed


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

I have the mx series 11-42 on my fuel and it is over 1000 miles still shifts okay and no bent spiders. I am 230# and have toasted three hubs in that same time. So it has worked okay for me....I think I may try the 11-46 on my wozo - currently running 28x11-36. Ok for summer, but will need more for winter....


----------



## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

*WOZO Love*

Well - I toasted another hub on my fuel and went a few weeks on the Wozo (set up B-Fat style) - and was really starting to get in the groove and understand how to ride this beast - and also finally dialed in my b-fat pressures (9 front, 10.5 rear - 230# rider)...

Just rebuilt my fuel wheel and after two rides I am missing the Wozo - going to get it back out tonight - maybe my primary steed has changed?....


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

After sending my shock and fork in for service on my fully I spent about 2 weeks riding my Wozo pretty much strictly jump line riding and it was an absolute hoot, had a very hard time going back to my fully.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

bdundee said:


> ... some people that are just beasts that have a tendency to destroy way more than most. What you destroy normal folks might never have an issue with.


i am far from a beast, @ 5'8" 200lbs. the sunrace spider to pin junction failed on two different cassettes. first one i considered a fluke. after the second one failed, literally the same way, i considered it a design issue.

Round 1:


----------



## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Round 2:















bdundee said:


> Heck I ride hard and I know I am running or have run stuff you sir have destroyed


aww.... i take that as a compliment 

*edited* and split into two posts because mtbr will not let me have two vids in the same post...


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## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

bdundee said:


> After sending my shock and fork in for service on my fully I spent about 2 weeks riding my Wozo pretty much strictly jump line riding and it was an absolute hoot, had a very hard time going back to my fully.


Sylvan Hill, right? I think I met you there last fall. This is very interesting to me as I have an Ibis Mojo HD3 (you had one, or still have one?) and I'm thinking about selling my Norco Sasquatch and getting a 2018 Wozo.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

blizzard_mk said:


> Sylvan Hill, right? I think I met you there last fall. This is very interesting to me as I have an Ibis Mojo HD3 (you had one, or still have one?) and I'm thinking about selling my Norco Sasquatch and getting a 2018 Wozo.


Yup that's me, I love my Wozo and still have the HD3. Actually prefer jumping with the Wozo but it's harder on my body. If you are ever around again and want to try the Wozo just let me know (size medium) 
A little Sylvan Wozo action


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## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

bdundee said:


> Yup that's me, I love my Wozo and still have the HD3. Actually prefer jumping with the Wozo but it's harder on my body. If you are ever around again and want to try the Wozo just let me know (size medium)
> A little Sylvan Wozo action


Cool video, I love that trail! I did a quick ride there last Friday morning and the jumps were in great shape. Thanks for your work there!

I'm up in Houghton and the Kona dealer has a 2018 medium in stock. The plan is to pick it up after work today. Trying to decide if I should just take the Wozo to Copper Harbor tomorrow afternoon, or if I'd miss the Mojo.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

blizzard_mk said:


> Cool video, I love that trail! I did a quick ride there last Friday morning and the jumps were in great shape. Thanks for your work there!
> 
> I'm up in Houghton and the Kona dealer has a 2018 medium in stock. The plan is to pick it up after work today. Trying to decide if I should just take the Wozo to Copper Harbor tomorrow afternoon, or if I'd miss the Mojo.


I would miss my Mojo if I went to Copper, that being said take both  Oh and your welcome I really love the place!! I remember you now green HD3.


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## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

bdundee said:


> I would miss my Mojo if I went to Copper, that being said take both  Oh and your welcome I really love the place!! I remember you now green HD3.


Good call, probably should just take both bikes tomorrow. Pretty excited to get the wozo on some more interesting trails. Definitely noticed the shorter rear end right away. Pretty easy to pull the front wheel up.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Any ideas of how much a lbs should charge to change a 2017 100mm Bluto RL to a 120mm? Haven't done a shock before, and really don't want to screw it up. Watched it on being done many times on video, and a man's got to know his limitations - at least for patience.

I want to use my 27.5s on the front and rear and keep the geometry.


----------



## captainmorgan (Mar 11, 2006)

Anyone running a SRAM XO crank with Wheels MFG GXP BB?

How did you space out the NDS cup? I had to add 5mm spacers on one side to pull the crank into alignment, and even then when I backpedal, the chain will drop down one gear from the 42t.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

david.p said:


> Here's the state of my Wozo - this spring has mostly seen time on the B-lowfat wheels (Cake Eaters on Kore Realm P45 rims):
> 
> View attachment 1198201
> 
> ...


How's the Jones Loop bar working out for you? I've read somewhere that it doesn't go well with front suspension.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Still liking the Jones bars on the Wozo - I'd used them for a number of years on a Jones frame before I got the Wozo so knew what I was getting into. Most people seem to like the Jones bars on fireroads/gravel, etc but not everyone likes them on technical singletrack. I ride the same trails on my Wozo as I do on my FS trail bike with a regular low rise bar. The Jones puts you in a bit more relaxed position - you can still "attack" the trail but the standard bar feels more aggressive. 

Running a longer stem (I'm using a 70mm) puts your hands in a similar place as they would be with a ~35mm stem and a standard bar.

For me the Jones bar differentiates the Wozo a bit more from my FS bike and the extra hand positions are great for longer rides, bikepacking, etc (which the Wozo is well suited to with a 29+ wheelset).


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Installed the 27s x 3.8 FBR on the rear of the Wozo, and left the 4.8 x 26 Jumbo Jims on the front. They were close to an inch higher than the 3.8 x 27 FBFs, and it looked like the BB was about 3/8" higher. Rode better, and had no pedal strikes. I could tell the difference in the low gear going up the steeper grades (26 x 42), and I liked that better also.

Bluto will be extended to 120mm this coming week. Thinking that I'll keep the bike this way instead of going to 27 x 3.8 FBF.

Am also looking at another 2019 Wozo to be bought next summer for the Duluth Bike. I'm thinking that I'd like to stay with the 80mm Mulefuts instead of the 65mms, if I pick up the 2019.

Note to self: Wet Maple leaves the size of Basketballs are laying in wait in sharp corners.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

For your WOZO revelry:


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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

I'd like to join the WOZO party. I am searching for a Medium frame, or possible complete bike if anyone is looking to unload one.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I’m looking too. 

The complete build Wozo seems to me to be a horrible deal. I am looking for a winter only bike. I just bought a steel Honzo and have a 2018 29er Sight in the quiver for 3 season duty. 

If I am going for a complete build, I can get a Norco Sasquatch 1 with an Eagle drivetrain and a dropper for $400 less. I appreciate it’s a different animal, but still. 

Long time Kona fan. I currently have 6 in my garage. But as a general comment, I find almost all Kona complete builds these days to be a horrible deal. Plus their component spec is generally pretty shitty, even for their higher end builds.

But that geo...


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## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I'm looking too.
> 
> The complete build Wozo seems to me to be a horrible deal. I am looking for a winter only bike. I just bought a steel Honzo and have a 2018 29er Sight in the quiver. If I am going for a complete build, I can get a Norco Sasquatch 1 with an Eagle drivetrain and a dropper for $400 less. I appreciate it's a different animal - 26 inch wheels and a different geo but still.
> 
> Long time Kona fan. I currently have 6 in my garage. But as a general comment, I find almost all Kona complete builds these days to be a horrible deal. Plus their component spec is generally pretty shitty, even for their higher end builds.


If you already have a Honzo, just buy the Sasquatch and save some money. The Sasquatch is a great winter fat bike. I rode a Sasquatch the last two winters on groomed snow singletrack and loved it. I just sold it and bought a Wozo because I wanted more nimble geometry (shorter chainstays and narrower cranks) and a longer fork for summer time use with a 29" wheelset. I feel like the geometry differences between the Wozo and Sasquatch are fairly insignificant for snow riding, but it depends on what your local winter riding looks like.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

blizzard_mk said:


> If you already have a Honzo, just buy the Sasquatch and save some money. The Sasquatch is a great winter fat bike. I rode a Sasquatch the last two winters on groomed snow singletrack and loved it. I just sold it and bought a Wozo because I wanted more nimble geometry (shorter chainstays) and a longer fork for summer time use with a 29" wheelset. I feel like the geometry differences between the Wozo and Sasquatch are fairly insignificant for groomed snow riding. It depends on what your local winter riding looks like.


Calgary Alberta Canada. Western Canadian Rockies. Foothills mostly. At lower elevations, we experience frequent freeze-thaw cycles.

I have never owned a fat bike but I have been riding seriously for 25 years (including winter commuting).

I am advised by the locals that studded tires are a 100% must (the 4.0 27.5 Dillingers), as is a dropper. Most say a suspension fork is a no brainer as well for the terrain.

I am lusting after that Wozo bad. BAD. I probably should have bought it instead of my Honzo and used the non studded tires for 3 season duty. I just can't get my head around the cost for the component spec. Bang for the buck seems shitty AF.

It's a very tough call but I need to do something here before there is no inventory left. One thing I have learned... Never once have I ever thought about the extra money I spent to get what I wanted. On the other hand, a heavier but cheaper wheelset (for example) seems to be front of mind every ride. One hard shot to the nuts is much easier to take (and soon forgotten) than continual repeated blows. I should probably just suck it up, throw down on the Wozo, make whatever mods I want, and enjoy. Life is short.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

There are a few posted for sale on Pink Bike, not sure what everyone is looking for but....


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## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Calgary Alberta Canada. Western Canadian Rockies. Foothills mostly. At lower elevations, we experience frequent freeze-thaw cycles.
> 
> I have never owned a fat bike but I have been riding seriously for 25 years (including winter commuting).
> 
> ...


It sounds like the Wozo might be the better choice for your winter riding if others are recommending studded 4.0 tires and a suspension fork. Maybe it makes sense for the Wozo to replace your Honzo. The Mastadon is a really solid fork.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

The Sasquatch comes with a 100mm Mastodon.

https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/fat-bike/sasquatch-aluminum/sasquatch-1-suspension/

The 4.0s were only recommended because they will fit the rim on the Honzo. Otherwise everyone goes bigger. But whatever size tire, there is 100% agreement - studded tires are mandatory. Most of the serious riders I know are running studded Wrathchilds or Dillingers.

I can't sell my Honzo. I don't even have it from the LBS yet. After buying it, it has been undergoing major surgery and I am still awaiting arrival of the fork.

Head says Sasquatch. Heart says Wozo.


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## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

The US pricing shows $2499 for the Wozo and $2599 for the Sasquatch. The Sasquatch has a Pro fork, dropper post, and Eagle drivetrain, otherwise the specs are pretty similar. The pricing must be different in Canada?

I wonder how the Terrene 27.5 x 4.5 Cake Eaters or Bontrager 27.5 x 4.5 Gnarwhals will fit on the back of the Wozo? Both are studdable.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Has anybody run a Dunderbeist (26x4.6) on a Mulefut 80mm on the rear of their Wozo? 

I need to move on from the stock Jumbo Jim (26x4.0) tire and looking for something much more aggressive for the steep and not always groomed trails out here in Wyoming. The Dunder and Flow Biests are the recommended tires here by the local shops and riders, but I am a bit concerned with chainstay clearance. I run the drop-outs in full extension mode in the winter for better wheel-base/handling so I am not worried about fore-aft clearance, just the width. 
Thanks, R-


----------



## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

rvercoe said:


> Has anybody run a Dunderbeist (26x4.6) on a Mulefut 80mm on the rear of their Wozo?
> 
> I need to move on from the stock Jumbo Jim (26x4.0) tire and looking for something much more aggressive for the steep and not always groomed trails out here in Wyoming. The Dunder and Flow Biests are the recommended tires here by the local shops and riders, but I am a bit concerned with chainstay clearance. I run the drop-outs in full extension mode in the winter for better wheel-base/handling so I am not worried about fore-aft clearance, just the width.
> Thanks, R-


Dunderbeist is fine on the 80 mulefuts if you don't need to run the shortest chainstay possible. I had to slide the dropouts back about 5mm from the shortest position to clear the chainstay yoke on mine, further back would get you even more clearance.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

blizzard_mk said:


> The US pricing shows $2499 for the Wozo and $2599 for the Sasquatch. The Sasquatch has a Pro fork, dropper post, and Eagle drivetrain, otherwise the specs are pretty similar. The pricing must be different in Canada?
> 
> I wonder how the Terrene 27.5 x 4.5 Cake Eaters or Bontrager 27.5 x 4.5 Gnarwhals will fit on the back of the Wozo? Both are studdable.


My pricing is not MSRP. For whatever reason, the discount is significantly greater percentage wise on the Norco than the Kona.

Agreed on your summary of the component comparison.

In Canada they have the identical MSRP. Not sure why, given what appears to be a pretty significant difference in component spec. The Wo component spec is off the charts cray. 10 speed? Seriously? Did they cobble this together from the parts bin?


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I run Wrathchilds on mine on 90's, like other reports I need to slide them back a ways. 80's would be a better choice.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

rvercoe said:


> I need to move on from the stock Jumbo Jim (26x4.0) tire and looking for something much more aggressive for the steep and not always groomed trails out here in Wyoming


Surly Edna 4.3 was a great all-around (snow and dirt) rear when I was running 26s on the Wozo. It measured around 110mm wide on 80mm rims after some use.


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## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

Wozo Community, I've got a couple of questions:

1. What are folks running for rigid forks these days? I'm looking at the MRP or the RSD most closely at the moment as they are 490 a-c vs all the QBP brands which are a little shorter. The Norco rigid is 511 a-c, but they won't sell me one without the rest of the bike. I have also talked to Waltworks about a custom fork, that is on the table too.

2. Has anyone tried the cake eater 27.5 x 4.5? I read a review that showed it measures much larger than the 27.5 x 4.5 barbs/gnars. Looked like it may not fit diametrically even in the most rearward position (785mm dia).

Thanks!
Gus


----------



## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

How long of a fork is Walt willing to build? I'm currently building up a Wozo frame myself.


----------



## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

I talked to him about 507mm, based on a sagged 120 non-extended Mastadon. Walt has built 36ers in the past, so, without putting words in his mouth, I think any reasonable length would be no problem for him. I already own a 29er frame and fork from him - the only thing stopping me from doing another custom fork is that I don't think I'll have this frame forever... I feel a custom fatty is in my future.



Bluebeat007 said:


> How long of a fork is Walt willing to build? I'm currently building up a Wozo frame myself.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

GusM said:


> I feel a custom fatty is in my future.


Funny I went from a custom ti fatty to the Wozo, thing just rips.


----------



## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Anyone tried to fit 27.5x4.5 Cake Eater our back yet?


----------



## jt-nr (Sep 3, 2015)

jpfurn said:


> Anyone tried to fit 27.5x4.5 Cake Eater our back yet?


Yes, even with the drop outs all the way back it doesn't fit (Mulefut 65mm rim). The 27.5 x 4 fits and I'll probably move the drop outs back most if not all the way back in.


----------



## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

jt-nr said:


> Yes, even with the drop outs all the way back it doesn't fit (Mulefut 65mm rim). The 27.5 x 4 fits and I'll probably move the drop outs back most if not all the way back in.


Thanks for saving me the time and trouble. I've read the Gnarwhal 4.5 measures .5" smaller then the Cake Eater. You think that has a chance?


----------



## jt-nr (Sep 3, 2015)

jpfurn said:


> Thanks for saving me the time and trouble. I've read the Gnarwhal 4.5 measures .5" smaller then the Cake Eater. You think that has a chance?


Not sure, the CE's were so tight I could not even get the axle in... I just gave up and didn't take much note of the clearance. Tonight I can measure the 4.5 (I have it on the front) and the 4 and let you know the dimensions.


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## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

jt-nr said:


> Not sure, the CE's were so tight I could not even get the axle in... I just gave up and didn't take much note of the clearance. Tonight I can measure the 4.5 (I have it on the front) and the 4 and let you know the dimensions.


I'm also interested in these dimensions - thanks!


----------



## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Is anyone getting a 27.5x4.5 Gnarwhal on the back of their Wozo? I can get the Barbegazi but it looks like that is about all. My previous green frame could not take the Barbegazi but the warrantied purple frame fits it tight but doable.

Edit:
I'm asking about a 80mm rim versus the stock 65mm. Thanks!


----------



## jt-nr (Sep 3, 2015)

GusM said:


> I'm also interested in these dimensions - thanks!


Here you go;
CE 4.0 at 8.5 psi on Mulefut 65mm rims - 3.75" wide at knobs, 29.625" diameter (rear)
CE 4.5 at 8.75 psi on Mulefut 65mm rims - 4.48" wide at knobs, 31.875" diameter (front)


----------



## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

jt-nr said:


> Here you go;
> CE 4.0 at 8.5 psi on Mulefut 65mm rims - 3.75" wide at knobs, 29.625" diameter (rear)
> CE 4.5 at 8.75 psi on Mulefut 65mm rims - 4.48" wide at knobs, 31.875" diameter (front)


Thank you!!


----------



## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

Got a quick run on the fat set-up.
483 a-to-c rigid fork
D5 front D4 rear
175mm x9 gxp cranks
= Pedal strike city

Doesn't help that all of the roots are still exposed from the one whole inch of snow we have had this year in Anchorage.
I do love how the bike handles though.
Taking an 1" off the chainstay length compared to my last fat bike makes a huge difference.
Didn't spin out on some icy climbs that others had a hard time with. Siting on the rear tire helps those studs bite a little more methinks.

I'm gonna need to find the elusive Sram Fat4 GXP 165mm cranks
or
a 120mm mastadon
or
Both

Looking to buy either one if someone is holding.


----------



## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

I had Walt of Waltworks fabricate me a steel 510mm axle to crown fork for my Wozo build. It's at the powder coater as I type.


----------



## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

Ugh...sideways photo!


----------



## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

Nice call on the waltworks fork, I'd love one

Measured the BB w/ the shorty fork

11.5" :lol


----------



## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

Two Wozos in the snow at Winman trails in Northern Wisconsin.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

blizzard_mk said:


> Two Wozos in the snow at Winman trails in Northern Wisconsin.


Fun little system.


----------



## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

bdundee said:


> Fun little system.


Definitely. It looked like they had quite a bit of traffic this weekend, but snow was still firm and smooth. A bit of a bummer that it's going to get warm for a few days.

I also rode Ringle for the first time on Saturday morning. Also fun. Yay for more trails.

To get back on topic.... I'm really liking the handling of the Wozo. Makes those optional jumps and drops a lot more fun.


----------



## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

Does anyone know if paragon inserts will fit in a wozo frame?


----------



## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

Looking at the parts in more detail, I think I've answered my own question. Looks like no due at least to the two separate slots on the frame vs the bridged tab design on the paragon parts.


----------



## Waxtrax84 (May 29, 2010)

I've got my 2018 Kona Wozo size Medium for sale. If anyone is interested in the New England area let me know!  https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2487653/


----------



## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

*27.5 x 80mm with 4.5 Barbs - No go on my frame*

Hey All-

I was thinking based on Nurse Ben's experience that I could fit 4.5" Barbs on 27.5 x 80mm rims (Mulefut in my case), but found that it doesn't work. It clears barely in the static condition but authoritative pedaling produces rubbing on both sides. Dropouts slammed all the way back. Back to the drawing board for a maximum float wheel set...


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

blizzard_mk said:


> Definitely. It looked like they had quite a bit of traffic this weekend, but snow was still firm and smooth. A bit of a bummer that it's going to get warm for a few days.
> 
> I also rode Ringle for the first time on Saturday morning. Also fun. Yay for more trails.
> 
> To get back on topic.... I'm really liking the handling of the Wozo. Makes those optional jumps and drops a lot more fun.


Make sure to rip at Sylvan Hill next summer, Wozo shreds it all with (almost) no issues.


----------



## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

Added a dropper and found some snow w/ minimal roots.
Fun times!


----------



## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

blizzard_mk said:


> Two Wozos in the snow at Winman trails in Northern Wisconsin.


If you make it there again, be sure to Check out Raven Trail in the Minocqua area. Only about half hour drive south of WinMan.


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

GusM said:


> Hey All-
> 
> I was thinking based on Nurse Ben's experience that I could fit 4.5" Barbs on 27.5 x 80mm rims (Mulefut in my case), but found that it doesn't work. It clears barely in the static condition but authoritative pedaling produces rubbing on both sides. Dropouts slammed all the way back. Back to the drawing board for a maximum float wheel set...
> 
> ...


----------



## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Bumpyride said:


> GusM said:
> 
> 
> > Hey All-
> ...


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

This may help someone. This is a Revelate Ranger bag medium on a size Large Wozo. Decent fit IMHO. I did eventually put a rubber band around the nose of the bag as I felt it widened out too much and would hit my knees in out of saddle pedaling.

















I got stupid fast shipping and a solid deal from Bike Hub Shop.


----------



## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

Bikemusher said:


> Bumpyride said:
> 
> 
> > I had the first green Wozo and tried to fit 4.5" Barbs on it and experienced rubbing as you are experiencing. I broke that frame and the new warrantied purple frame actually fits the Barbs on 80 mm Jackalopes as I've been riding it a lot for the past month or so and am now confident that it will work. Tight but no rub. Yes, it is slammed back as far as it goes with nothing to spare. I daydream about having a 4.5" Gnarwhal back there. Apparently, it is so close that it works for some frames but not others.
> ...


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

GusM said:


> Bikemusher said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the comment - at least I know I'm not totally crazy or have a strange frame.
> ...


----------



## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

Bluebeat007 said:


> I had Walt of Waltworks fabricate me a steel 510mm axle to crown fork for my Wozo build. It's at the powder coater as I type.
> 
> View attachment 1228254


Have you had a chance to ride it yet? A friend (actually a student of Walt) is building me a very similar steel fork. I was also planning to go with 510mm A-C.


----------



## azfishman (May 7, 2010)

Shameless plug, please delete if not okay

Looking for an XL frame or complete if anyone has one. 
I'd buy a new one but the spec sheet looks like they grabbed whatever was leftover and made it work.

Thanks


----------



## centoshred (Sep 22, 2016)

azfishman said:


> Shameless plug, please delete if not okay
> 
> Looking for an XL frame or complete if anyone has one.
> I'd buy a new one but the spec sheet looks like they grabbed whatever was leftover and made it work.
> ...


Bicycle Express in Waterbury, VT has one. Not sure about shipping etc. I'm 10 minutes away and could arrange the shipping if you need. It's last years bike and priced at $2000. I think it's on pinkbike.


----------



## azfishman (May 7, 2010)

I did see that one on PB. Looking for the 27.5 version. May have to wait for next years model to see if they update the component spec. Thanks!


----------



## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Stopbreakindown said:


> Got a quick run on the fat set-up.
> 483 a-to-c rigid fork
> D5 front D4 rear
> 175mm x9 gxp cranks
> ...


Lower headset cup for a Cane Creek angleset would add about 12mm to the lower stack height = 495mm. You'd need the lower cup (EC56) and gimbal ( 52mm - For 1.5" Bearings) Universal Cycles has them. Also the Bontrager Haru carbon fork from the Farley has 490mm axle to crown. With the CC lower cup it would be around 502mm.


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Just scored a couple of Jumbo Jim 4.4 SS at Universal Cycles and a multi tool for $145 shipped. Tires worked out to be $61 each. Needed a taller rear for some additional bottom bracket clearance along with the new Mastodon AC to even out the geometry. They had an additional 10% off and free shipping if the order was over $150 before the discount, hence the multitool.


----------



## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

blizzard_mk said:


> Have you had a chance to ride it yet? A friend (actually a student of Walt) is building me a very similar steel fork. I was also planning to go with 510mm A-C.


It's still not built yet. Maybe this week!


----------



## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

Much happier now.
Manitou Mastodon Pro 120mm
Found the limits of the D5 in front
Might bump it to 130mm
Might look for a Wrathchild and move the d5 to the back
Nice day for a bike ride


----------



## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

*Replacement Frame*

Had a 2017 Wozo took it in to LBS in December for tune up and they noticed some cracks starting to form around the wields on the seat stays just like the photo's in previous thread. LBS got a hold of Kona replacement frame came in a 2018 Wozo, no 2019 left for warranty process!!! Haven't seen any 2018 frames with the failures on the wields so hoping this one lasts lol.


----------



## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Wozo;13958034Haven't seen any 2018 frames with the failures on the wields...[/QUOTE said:


> sorry, you are still F'd...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

Wow not that surprising since Kona didn’t correct the issue on the 2018 frames. Purple 2019 frames they welded a small plate between the seat stays more reinforcement. Well hopefully ride it until July/August go threw the warranty and you’ll get a nice 2020 frame!! It will be interesting to see in 2019 if more 2018 frames show up with the same failures around the wields. My LBS fought hard to get me a 2019 frame but Kona refused to break a full bike down and take the loss so I got a 2018 one instead. All got too me I just ride and if it fails get another one lol!


----------



## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Odd, all 19 purple frames i have seen look identical to 18 and 17 frames. I did not measure tubing or tube thickness though.


----------



## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

*2019 Wozo Frame*



Rodney said:


> Odd, all 19 purple frames i have seen look identical to 18 and 17 frames. I did not measure tubing or tube thickness though.


The 2019 frame I saw was a LG with a small plate welded between the seat stays for extra support. I assume LG fames and ExLG will have this. I know medium frame did not have the plate. I suppose Kona warranty replacement of the 2017 frames were mostly LG and up because you have bigger riders?


----------



## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Wozo said:


> The 2019 frame I saw was a LG with a small plate welded between the seat stays for extra support. I assume LG fames and ExLG will have this. I know medium frame did not have the plate.


here is a 2019 XL frame that was delivered few days ago. no extra bracing compared to the original, looks literally the same as the 2017 frame it was replacing.

















i know of two others locally, a 17' L and an 18' XL that should have replacements soon. there is another 18' medium around, and his frame is still good. but, his bike is dirty, so he may have a surprise when he cleans it...


----------



## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

Your right no extra plate! Interesting I’m in Canada and Kona USA and Canada are a little different. USA defiantly gets more inventory, there are no frames of 2019 to be had here. I’m sure Kona will be producing more and maybe they will will have the plate? Your frame maybe produced on initial production from last August? Sounds like Kona replacing wozo frames like bubble gum good for awhile, throw it out get a new one lol! It unbelievable how many frames have they replaced 50-100 now?


----------



## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

It unbelievable how many frames have they replaced 50-100 now?[/QUOTE said:


> That is quite a bit of speculation....I am 225 lbs on an xl. No apparent issues but will look at it again. In anycase, I bought mine new for their replacment warranty. Good to see they are honoring without issue.


----------



## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

I’m not sure how many frames they have replaced but jut from this forum looks like 10 plus frames easy. Imagine how many others are out there? Replaced 2 at my LBS of the 2017 model. Kona warranty process is great hopefully 2020 Wozo problems has been fixed.


----------



## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

*Full winter mode!*

Folks -

I was having some trouble fitting the 27.5 x 4.5 barbs on 80mm rims in my frame without rubbing. Seems like it works for some and not others. I really wanted to run the big hoops, so I designed and had made some dropout inserts with 10mm more rearward offset. They turned out well and so far so good.

























Also - I wanted a rigid fork for winter, but was having difficulty finding a 510ish A-C to keep the geom similar. I stumbled across a lower headset cup extender from niner (+15mm) and paired that with a 490 A-C crown fork. So when I put the Mastadon back in, it will be a little more slack, but the rigid fork seems to be spot on. Again, so far so good.









I'll report back on how it goes... Thanks for the help and questions answered over the recent months.

Cheers,


----------



## GusM (Jul 25, 2013)

FYI - my 2019 XL has no extra plate either...



Rodney said:


> here is a 2019 XL frame that was delivered few days ago. no extra bracing compared to the original, looks literally the same as the 2017 frame it was replacing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

GusM said:


> FYI - my 2019 XL has no extra plate either...


Not saying a bracing plate wouldn't help, but tbh the cracks we've seen look to be from a welding issue vs. an inherent structural design problem.


----------



## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

Any Wozo owners run a D5 in the rear?
If so where are the sliders, prefer to run mine slammed or a few mm out. 
Thanks


----------



## Saskrider (Jun 30, 2016)

Keep seeing one of the original purple ones at my lbs heavily discounted. ... such a rad color


----------



## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Saskrider said:


> Keep seeing one of the original purple ones at my lbs heavily discounted. ... such a rad color


"Original" purple one? Purple is the 3rd year, the current model...


----------



## Saskrider (Jun 30, 2016)

Rodney said:


> "Original" purple one? Purple is the 3rd year, the current model...


Well I'm totally out of it. Thought it was an older model since it was discounted. Regardless a rad bike!


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I will have a medium frame and other bits up for sale shortly if anyone is looking.


----------



## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

bdundee said:


> I will have a medium frame and other bits up for sale shortly if anyone is looking.


What are you moving to curiously? Potentially interested in the "other bits" depending on what you have. I prefer that blue to the original green I have and in hindsight wish I would have gone Medium vs Large, but I've made the Large work for 2+ yrs now.


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

bdundee said:


> I will have a medium frame and other bits up for sale shortly if anyone is looking.


Bailing on the Wozo?


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

MSH said:


> What are you moving to curiously? Potentially interested in the "other bits" depending on what you have. I prefer that blue to the original green I have and in hindsight wish I would have gone Medium vs Large, but I've made the Large work for 2+ yrs now.


Cool just let me know.


Bumpyride said:


> Bailing on the Wozo?


Not bailing on the Wozo, still the best fat bike frame ever build atleast that I have swung a leg over. But I am bailing on fat biking all together, medical issues have left me with eternal cold feet and just don't want to deal with it in the cold months any longer. After almost 9 years of fat biking throwing the towel in.


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

bdundee said:


> Cool just let me know.
> 
> Not bailing on the Wozo, still the best fat bike frame ever build atleast that I have swung a leg over. But I am bailing on fat biking all together, medical issues have left me with eternal cold feet and just don't want to deal with it in the cold months any longer. After almost 9 years of fat biking throwing the towel in.


Bummer, I wish you all the best.


----------



## Saskrider (Jun 30, 2016)

Bumpyride said:


> Bummer, I wish you all the best.


Heated socks! Problem solved


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Saskrider said:


> Heated socks! Problem solved


Thanks but tried that and everything else for that matter. It's a nerve issue from a spinal injury and I have found other activities in the cold months and I don't need to deal with it any longer.


----------



## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

bdundee said:


> Cool just let me know.n.


Do you have ads up yet? I checked classifieds eatlier snd didn't see anything up. Thanks!


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

MSH said:


> Do you have ads up yet? I checked classifieds eatlier snd didn't see anything up. Thanks!


No not yet, been to busy to take it apart. I'm hoping to take it apart next well and put it up on Facebook due to the amount of traffic there.


----------



## Saskrider (Jun 30, 2016)

bdundee said:


> Thanks but tried that and everything else for that matter. It's a nerve issue from a spinal injury and I have found other activities in the cold months and I don't need to deal with it any longer.


Best of luck! I have an idea of how you feel. My hands freeze even in pogies with heated gloves sometimes if it's minus 30C


----------



## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

bdundee said:


> No not yet, been to busy to take it apart. I'm hoping to take it apart next well and put it up on Facebook due to the amount of traffic there.


Sounds good. Sent you PM on what I would potentially be interested in. Thanks!


----------



## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

So, once again I realize that i should just build my bikes from the frame up vs buying complete. I picked this up a few weeks ago as a new leftover and quickly realized that (for me) a suspension fork is overkill on what will primarily be a snow bike and started changing stuff.

The fork is a Bontrager Haru Pro carbon - it's suspension corrected for a 100mm fork so it seemed like the logical choice. Picked it up on ebay brand new with the Maxle and carbon compression steerer plug for $150.

The wheels are Mulefut rims laced to Hope hubs with 4.8 Minions front and rear (tubeless, of course).

Ever buy something you didn't need just because the price was so good you couldn't pass it up? Well that explains the XT brakes. I've had these sitting around for awhile waiting for a project. They were set up Euro style but I had to shorten the lines anyways so it was no big deal to switch the levers around.

The seatpost is a Pacific Northwest Cascade dropper. Coil instead of air. Nice piece. Spank Spoon saddle.

Everything else is stock.









What did I do with the parts off the Wozo? Put them on my 2015 Farley, which is now for sale. Nice coincidence how the colors match.


----------



## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Looks good Jeff, and great deal on that carbon fork! The suspension fork is nice if you get a second set of non-fat wheels and tires, but I think it's probably overkill in the snow. What's your riding impressions compared to your Farley?


----------



## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

I haven't really gotten enough miles on it yet to say and haven't ridden it yet with the Haru fork except around the neighborhood on pavement. The Farley was the best handling bike I've ever owned (any bike, not just fat) so the bar is set pretty high. 

I have a B-plus set up that I used on the Farley for summer riding so I'm good there.


----------



## TJayL (Aug 27, 2015)

Picked up my 2019 warranty replacement for my 2017 after the seat stay welds cracked. Noticed the design change. It must have been after the initial run because I've seen pictures of 2019 on here that don't look like that I think. Medium frame.


----------



## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

Looks good Kona replaced mine with a 2018 frame. 2020 Wozo going back to green colour!


----------



## htrdoug (Mar 19, 2011)

Wozo said:


> Looks good Kona replaced mine with a 2018 frame. 2020 Wozo going back to green colour!


Well,hoping for a frame only option at least in 2020,would prefer a more subtle color myself (-; if black it could have prominent decals though. Otherwise I will keep riding my Wo.


----------



## TJayL (Aug 27, 2015)

The purple isn't bad and I think it will grow on me but I really liked my 2017 green. The shop gave me the option of waiting for the 2020 but I wasn't too sold on that green.


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Wozo said:


> Looks good Kona replaced mine with a 2018 frame. 2020 Wozo going back to green colour!


2020 a similar shade of green as the original or different?


----------



## TJayL (Aug 27, 2015)

nitrousjunky said:


> 2020 a similar shade of green as the original or different?


It's much different. Dark green, gloss finish.


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

TJayL said:


> It's much different. Dark green, gloss finish.


Interesting, I actually like the sound of that. I think they should bring back the frame only option again as well.


----------



## Whahappen (Jul 15, 2016)

Well, I was hoping it wouldn't happen, but it did...









It's at the bike shop, will get a new frame.


----------



## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Good thing they put that gusset there, lol. Sorry to see that. The rear end on these bikes is definitely flexy. When I have my 4.8 Minion on the back it buzzes the chainstay when pedaling.


----------



## kelbo (May 13, 2014)

I have a brand new 2018 XL frame I'm thinking about selling. That plus life has me rethinking my next bike build. Just gauging interest.


----------



## azfishman (May 7, 2010)

Dang it. I just bought a used 2018 complete last week!! I would have much rather had just a frame. 

Oh well, I'm sure it'll go quick, really the only FB out there that fit my personal needs, long reach, etc. 

GLWTS


----------



## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

Put the studs away finally. Can't wait to work the dirt!


----------



## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

Stopbreakindown said:


> Put the studs away finally. Can't wait to work the dirt!


Looks great! What tires are you running?

Here is mine in summer mode. 29 x 2.6 Maxxis Rekon on Spank 350 rims.


----------



## kelbo (May 13, 2014)

If anyone is looking for a XL frame. I'm selling a brand new one. It's on pinkbike, but I would knock a few more bucks off if you're a mtbr member. Thanks.


----------



## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

kelbo said:


> If anyone is looking for a XL frame. I'm selling a brand new one. It's on pinkbike, but I would knock a few more bucks off if you're a mtbr member. Thanks.


Still selling ? Can it run 29 x 3?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Can the 2018 ( blue ) run 29 x 3 and 27.5 x 3.8?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## kelbo (May 13, 2014)

Im pretty sure it can run just about any tirr you want. Theres a 29x2.6 up a few posts. 

Still for sale. It's on pinkbike at its lowest price currently. Fatbike popularity has kind of leveled off it seems.


----------



## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

kelbo said:


> Im pretty sure it can run just about any tirr you want. Theres a 29x2.6 up a few posts.
> 
> Still for sale. It's on pinkbike at its lowest price currently. Fatbike popularity has kind of leveled off it seems.


Just the frame ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## kelbo (May 13, 2014)

Just the frame


----------



## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

kelbo said:


> Just the frame


Did you not like the bike ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## kelbo (May 13, 2014)

Check your pm's. I dont want to continue to clog up this thread. Thanks.


----------



## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

*Kona Woo*

Kona is introducing the Kona Woo for 2020 models. Its got the Wozo frame with rigid carbon fork. Wozo is still available also for 2020 looks like no more Kona Wo.


----------



## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

*2020 Kona Wozo*

2020 Kona Wozo back to green, 27.5 wheels looks like upgraded to a 1x12 drivetrain.


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Hrmm, since they are using the same frame for both..... I wonder if they will bring back a frame only option?


----------



## mgd (Jan 4, 2011)

I pm'd a couple guys in this thread, but I'm curious if anyone out there is happily running 27.5+ sizes, like:
27.5x3.0 or 27.5x3.25

Considering a lighter, ~50mm wheelset and I'm reluctant to go 29x3.0. 

Other thought is 27.5x3.8 hodag on the 50mm wheel.

Thanks


----------



## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

mgd said:


> I pm'd a couple guys in this thread, but I'm curious if anyone out there is happily running 27.5+ sizes, like:
> 27.5x3.0 or 27.5x3.25
> 
> Considering a lighter, ~50mm wheelset and I'm reluctant to go 29x3.0.
> ...


I love Hodag had them on a Farley - great speedy tire ...

Why not 29x3?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## mgd (Jan 4, 2011)

TheNatureBoy said:


> I love Hodag had them on a Farley - great speedy tire ...
> 
> Why not 29x3?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Just kinda had it in my head that:
A) smaller 27.5 rim and sub 3.8" tire would be the most significant weight difference.
B) smaller wheel/tire would (possibly) result in a bit more agile bike in the 3 seasons.
C) feels like 29x3 is referenced often as a good bikepacking size. I'm not looking for that. (I can be convinced that it's not!)?


----------



## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Other thought is 27.5x3.8 hodag on the 50mm wheel.

[/QUOTE]

Hell yes! I love my bike set-up like that! So fun!


----------



## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

mgd said:


> I pm'd a couple guys in this thread, but I'm curious if anyone out there is happily running 27.5+ sizes, like:
> 27.5x3.0 or 27.5x3.25
> 
> Considering a lighter, ~50mm wheelset and I'm reluctant to go 29x3.0.
> ...


I have run 27 x 3.0s (Nobby Nics) on i45s and found it too low of Bottom Bracket and a little too twitch for my liking. I put some Minion 3.8s on there and it was huge improvement in BB height and kick-ass fun, bomber ride. I would definitely encourage your interest in the 3.8 option (Hodag or other). It also increases your range of terrain, conditions and seasons that can be ridden (including mild snow or packed snow conditions).


----------



## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

mgd said:


> Just kinda had it in my head that:
> A) smaller 27.5 rim and sub 3.8" tire would be the most significant weight difference.
> B) smaller wheel/tire would (possibly) result in a bit more agile bike in the 3 seasons.
> C) feels like 29x3 is referenced often as a good bikepacking size. I'm not looking for that. (I can be convinced that it's not!)


I am currently running Maxxis Rekon 29x2.6 tires on 30mm internal rims. Really happy with the bike geometry and handling. I think the BB height is fairly close to my 26x4.6 winter setup. Tire clearance is good with chainstays in the shortest position. I like the 2.6 tires for my mostly-smooth (and sometimes jumpy) local trails. I can see wanting more tire if you're in chunky terrain.


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

I currently have 3 wheelsets for my wozo. 27.5x5o with Hodags, 27.5x80 with vanhelgs, and 29x45 with Bombolonis. At 225lbs I had a hard time finding the sweet spot of cush and rim dings/holes on the 27.5x50 rims. I prefer either the full 27.5x80 vanhelgs or the 29x45 with 3.0's. I have set pr's on both the 29's snd hodags. I just hurt shoulder and rehabing and going to go to the vanhelga front/ hodag rear on the 80mm's for the rest of the summer and will report back. Looking forward to the cush and mid speed confidence...


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## Whahappen (Jul 15, 2016)

Wozo said:


> 2020 Kona Wozo back to green, 27.5 wheels looks like upgraded to a 1x12 drivetrain.


One other thing of note for the Wozo, the rear hub spacing is 197mm now vs. 177. So the new frames can run all the different tire sizes in the rear. Also changes the Q factor I'm sure. I also have to wonder about warranty frames for 2019s and older going forward.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Can the 17-18 Wozo run 29 x 3? 


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Whahappen said:


> One other thing of note for the Wozo, the rear hub spacing is 197mm now vs. 177. So the new frames can run all the different tire sizes in the rear. Also changes the Q factor I'm sure. I also have to wonder about warranty frames for 2019s and older going forward.


Interesting, redesign to try to eliminate the cracking issue and be more universal?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

*2020 is live now*

https://www.konaworld.com/wozo.cfm

https://www.konaworld.com/woo.cfm


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Is the wozo really 197 rear now? Or was it a website mistake??
I emailed kona for confirmation.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

The 2018 blue is the best color - they’ve gone Salsa bad now ...


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Blue in only the best color if you like blue. Green is the best color if you like green. Purple is the best color if you watched Barney. :eekster:


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## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

Replacement Frame 2018 mobel


TheNatureBoy said:


> The 2018 blue is the best color - they've gone Salsa bad now ...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Can the 17-18 Wozo run 29 x 3?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes it can, just not in the most slammed chainstay position.
But a 29x2.8 Terraveil Coronado fits perfect with the stays max short


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Stopbreakindown said:


> Yes it can, just not in the most slammed chainstay position.
> But a 29x2.8 Terraveil Coronado fits perfect with the stays max short


Only problem is I need rims that fit 177x12 pain In the ass to have built

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## Whahappen (Jul 15, 2016)

nitrousjunky said:


> Interesting, redesign to try to eliminate the cracking issue and be more universal?


I'd assume its so they only have to make one frame now, more than any weakness issue.

Edit: The price of the wozo went up, but gets 12 speeds and a dropper now. I musta been rather tired last night looking at that website


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Kona tech support & facebook chat both confirmed the Wozo is now 197 rear starting 2020+.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Whahappen said:


> I'd assume its so they only have to make one frame now, more than any weakness issue.


Nope, they are still making 2 fat frames. 2020 Wo is on the site. So now they are 3 fat bike models.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Rodney said:


> Kona tech support & facebook chat both confirmed the Wozo is now 197 rear starting 2020+.


If it brings more tire clearance, some will rejoice...But I'm not one of them. Unless they pulled a Trek and kept the Qfactor the same - this is a downgrade for the fit and handling.


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## mgd (Jan 4, 2011)

What's the trick to removing the front axle on the mastadon? 

About 10 months ago I converted both wheels to tubeless. Since then I've put on a couple thousand miles in all conditions.

Today I pulled the rear wheel and swapped the minion to a hodag.

I attempted to pull the front, and the allen wrench slipped. Found a tighter angle and put the allen wrench all the way in; no luck.

So what gives? Is it corroded in place? Or is there a trick to removing the Hexlock axle?

Mike


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

mgd said:


> So what gives? Is it corroded in place? Or is there a trick to removing the Hexlock axle?
> 
> Mike


No trick is nec. just turn the inner hex. Maybe yours is corroded like you said? If you want a sanity check - take a pic of what you're doing.

Since bumping the thread - anyone buy a new Wozo?


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## richard1hammond (Sep 18, 2019)

Hi all!

I have the 2019 Wozo just got it and prepping for winter riding in Ottawa. From talking to local riders studs are a must so my question is what's the best tires that will fit?

I have been looking at these

https://borealisbikes.ca/products/terrene-cake-eater-120tpi-27-5x4-0?variant=11778495545388

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## mgd (Jan 4, 2011)

*New wheels*

Nextie Jungle Fox 27.5s with tubeless Hodags, and e13 9-46t cassette.

Size medium, 32.0 lbs with the dropper and platform pedals.


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## richard1hammond (Sep 18, 2019)

mgd said:


> Nextie Jungle Fox 27.5s with tubeless Hodags, and e13 9-46t cassette.
> 
> Size medium, 32.0 lbs with the dropper and platform pedals.
> 
> View attachment 1287073


Nice bike!! What width tires have you got on there? Also are they aftermarket rims or just stickers? Looks really good!

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## mgd (Jan 4, 2011)

Wheels = Nextie Jungle Fox https://www.nextie.com/plus-jungle-fox-52mm-NXT27JF52

Tires = Hodag --> 27.5x3.8"


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Anyone with a 2018 (Blue) frame:

*** What is the maximum size 27.5 rim/tire combo that can fit on the back? ***
(Looking to fit Gnarwhal 27.5x4.5 on a 65-80mm rim)

Currently am running 26x65mm with 4.6 Dunderbeist and 27.5x50mm with 3.8 FBR but really want a better B-fat setup with maximum float.

Also running Fox34 which can fit 26x4.6 Flowbeist on a 65mm rim, but will probably upgrade to Mastodon Pro 120 to use 27.5x4.6 or larger tire...


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## richard1hammond (Sep 18, 2019)

PCT said:


> Anyone with a 2018 (Blue) frame:
> 
> *** What is the maximum size 27.5 rim/tire combo that can fit on the back? ***
> (Looking to fit Gnarwhal 27.5x4.5 on a 65-80mm rim)
> ...


I have the 2019 don't think there's any spacing differences.. on a 27.5 4" will be the widest you'll be fitting front and rear. Unless you down size to a 26 which will buy more space


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Yeah I've heard of others getting the 27.5x4.5 Barbegazi to work with the sliders back, not sure what rim width.

The 27.5x4.5 Gnarwhal should *just* fit on a rim that is maybe less than 80mm, but the clearances at the chainstays are likely too close for practical use. As a thought experiment, I mounted the 4.5 Gnarwhal on a 50mm rim (yeah, I know, certainly not a good combo for actual riding) and there is in fact a reasonable amount of space on all sides. Maybe a 65mm or 70mm rim could provide better profile/support and still clear the stays, but I am more inclined to opt for an 80mm rim and VanHelga 27.5x4.0.

Definitely want to run the Gnarwhal 27.5 x 4.5 with 80mm rim on the front though... guess it's time to try another Mastodon.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

PCT said:


> Yeah I've heard of others getting the 27.5x4.5 Barbegazi to work with the sliders back, not sure what rim width.
> 
> The 27.5x4.5 Gnarwhal should *just* fit on a rim that is maybe less than 80mm, but the clearances at the chainstays are likely too close for practical use. As a thought experiment, I mounted the 4.5 Gnarwhal on a 50mm rim (yeah, I know, certainly not a good combo for actual riding) and there is in fact a reasonable amount of space on all sides. Maybe a 65mm or 70mm rim could provide better profile/support and still clear the stays, but I am more inclined to opt for an 80mm rim and VanHelga 27.5x4.0.
> 
> Definitely want to run the Gnarwhal 27.5 x 4.5 with 80mm rim on the front though... guess it's time to try another Mastodon.


Go 4.5" front and 3.8" rear gnarwhals.

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## fat_biker85 (Mar 6, 2019)

First post ever, creeped the wozo threads intensely over time. Just wanted to share my Kona Wozo. Bought end of September 2019 and put on 2823 km on it. Had to upgrade the rear hub to Hope after two Formula hubs failing. Winter trails, Summer trails, shuttle runs and beaches in Atlantic Canada.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

I have the original 2017 WoZo with the Race Face PF92 bottom bracket with the Race Face Aeffect SL Cranks. Got confused on which of the replacement Bottom Brackets are going to fit the SL Cranks. 

I've found both recommended on this thread. Would very much appreciate a help in figuring out which to order.

Thanks

PressFit 41mm ABEC-3 Fat Bike BB for 24/22mm (SRAM) Cranks - Black

BB86/92 Thread Together ABEC-3 BB for 24mm (Shimano) Cranks - Black


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## goose8 (Feb 24, 2007)

So it sounds like the rear could take a true 27.5x4" tire- maybe something like the gnarwhal with studs? 

What about the fork- does anyone know if it's the STD or EXT version? Wondering if it would clear a 4" tire as well. 

Finally, is the q-factor any different between the 2019 and 2020 models?

Thanks in advance to anyone who could shed some light on these questions!

(edited to ask about q-factor)


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## jt-nr (Sep 3, 2015)

goose8 said:


> So it sounds like the rear could take a true 27.5x4" tire- maybe something like the gnarwhal with studs?
> 
> What about the fork- does anyone know if it's the STD or EXT version? Wondering if it would clear a 4" tire as well.
> 
> ...


I've got the 2019 (purple) and I'm running Terrene Cake Eaters studded ~ 27.5 x 4.5 in front and 27.5 x 4 in back on the stock 80 mm rims with no clearance issues. The 4.5 doesn't fit in the back even with the sliding dropouts all the way out.

I believe the fork is the EXT version.


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

I have 3 sets of wheels for my Wozo- 29 x 2.6, 27.5 x 3.8 and 26 x 4.0, all on 177 hubs. Sad that this rear spacing has gone away. Hopefully my frame holds up for a couple of more seasons.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

deuxdiesel said:


> I have 3 sets of wheels for my Wozo- 29 x 2.6, 27.5 x 3.8 and 26 x 4.0, all on 177 hubs. Sad that this rear spacing has gone away. Hopefully my frame holds up for a couple of more seasons.


local guy is bringing in his orig green wozo in for a frame swap in a few days. He reached out to Kona, and they told him he is on his own getting a replacement wheel... sure, they warranty the frame, but give the customer a bill for changes in part specs. that sucks.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Need to order, and would very much appreciate some help. TIA



Bumpyride said:


> I have the original 2017 WoZo with the Race Face PF92 bottom bracket with the Race Face Aeffect SL Cranks. Got confused on which of the replacement Bottom Brackets are going to fit the SL Cranks.
> 
> I've found both recommended on this thread. Would very much appreciate a help in figuring out which to order.
> 
> ...


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Bumpyride said:


> Need to order, and would very much appreciate some help. TIA


I believe this is the one you need: https://wheelsmfg.com/pressfit-41mm-angular-contact-fat-bike-bb-for-24mm-shimano-cranks-black.html


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

OhioPT said:


> I believe this is the one you need: https://wheelsmfg.com/pressfit-41mm-angular-contact-fat-bike-bb-for-24mm-shimano-cranks-black.html


Thanks. I appreciate the help.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Is anyone still riding one of the original green Wozos? I'm wondering how extensive the seat stay cracking issue is. 

I pulled my old green frame out and built it up today. Noticed that the paint was cracked around the seatstay/seattube welds, but when I sanded the paint off I couldn't see any cracking in the metal. Not really sure what to do other than keep riding and see what happens.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

FWIW it is cracked. Showed back up after riding around the yard for a minute.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Eeeek. Curse of the Wozo. After reading your post, I decided to re-re-re-check mine. I have an what on another frameset would be an inconspicuous line on the right stay just like yours. Grrrr. I'm still within 3 year warranty so maybe something will happen but sort of anxious since I don't want the new model w/ 197 stays. 

I'll post up a pic tomorrow for posterity.


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## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

2020 model has 197 rear hub but they also redesigned the bottom bracket to the chainstays, so yes you get a new replacement frame but will have to get a new rear hub, bottom bracket, and maybe new cranks too. Shop replaced a couple Wozo frames with the new 2020 model and cost $800 Canadian just to get the bike riding again!!!


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Yeah, that's an issue - if they can't do NOS. Like the other guy, I have multiple wheelsets and the new Q-factor is straight up deal breaker. Hate to put it out there but I'd prob sell the replacement frame and commission something custom.

Edit - I assumed diff BB when they released the new 2020 w/ 197. But it still lists same BB - SRAM GXP PF121. Does anyone know if 177 cranks fit/clear? Still an issue given the wheel rebuild tho - but tbh, it's more about the q-factor change for me.


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## Wozo (Nov 30, 2016)

Visiting my bike shop a 2020 model was in the stand replacement frame for a customer and i was asking the mechanic about it and they had to replace hub, bottom bracket and he told me the cranks too cost the guy $800 Canadian and the cranks were SRAM Gx just to get the Wozo going. My frame has been replaced once with a 2018 blue frame but now I am thinking of replacing it with a Surly Wednesday. Still gonna need some new parts but at least the frame is bullet proof.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Carl Mega said:


> Yeah, that's an issue - if they can't do NOS. Like the other guy, I have multiple wheelsets and the new Q-factor is straight up deal breaker. Hate to put it out there but I'd prob sell the replacement frame and commission something custom.
> 
> Edit - I assumed diff BB when they released the new 2020 w/ 197. But it still lists same BB - SRAM GXP PF121. Does anyone know if 177 cranks fit/clear? Still an issue given the wheel rebuild tho - but tbh, it's more about the q-factor change for me.


I don't know specifically about the 2020 Wozo compatibility, but I can say as an owner of a Motobecane NightTrain/Sturgis frameset that people have used 177 cranks on that bike, which has a 100mm BB and 197 rear spacing (crank arms just barely clear the chainstays). So I suppose it may be possible. All depends how width of the BB and chainstays...


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Maybe a bit premature in last rites which gives hope as I really like this bike and don't feel like undertaking a new build.

Anyway - crappy, blurry pic but here's what it looked like after scrubbing it out. I did chip away the surrounding paint and didn't see a crack. Rode it probably around 20mi... busted out the magnifiers and still don't see a crack.

I'm just going to keep an eye on it. Unless it fatally breaks, I'm going to ride it thru the winter no matter what. I can deal with a potential warranty, sale, custom whatever once we get to warmer season. I'll post up if anything develops.


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

*Lucky*

Will consider myself lucky. Got about 600 miles on mine and I am 220#'s. Ride both as 27.5 fat and 29+. I sure hope it keeps going, but lifetime warranty is nice. Swapping a hub and BB is not to big a thing for the new frame, not sure that would bother me much.

Not changing to another bike. At 6'4" the XL is huge and perfect. Not other fat comes even close to fit.

...sure wish i could figure rotation and mtbr...


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## rueger007 (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm on a 2020 Kona Woo now so if anyone is looking for a 29+ wheelset to fit older Wozo (150 x 177) I've got a Mikesee wheelset in great shape. I45 scrapers, salsa hubs, xr4 front chupac rear


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

I have a Medium blue Wozo that I would love to swap the frame for a Small. Anyone looking for a Medium? It is my girlfriend's bike. Low miles and not ridden very hard. As long as it is the 177 frame I don't care which year. Let me know... Thanks!


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

rueger007 said:


> I'm on a 2020 Kona Woo now so if anyone is looking for a 29+ wheelset to fit older Wozo (150 x 177) I've got a Mikesee wheelset in great shape. I45 scrapers, salsa hubs, xr4 front chupac rear


Is there any chance you could post a pic of your bottom bracket and chainring area? This 197 thing is throwing me for a loop and I'm trying to see if I can still use a 177 crank with a different chainring.

Edit: Never mind. There are pretty good pics on the website.


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## rueger007 (Nov 2, 2007)

I'll give it a whirl tomorrow with the pic. I can't imagine your feet clearing the chain stays with a 177 crank as my size 13's hit them once in a while


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

rueger007 said:


> I'll give it a whirl tomorrow with the pic. I can't imagine your feet clearing the chain stays with a 177 crank as my size 13's hit them once in a while


When I was processing on this it occurred to me - wouldn't the chainline be pretty bad even if they clear? I assume 10mm outboard on the hub on the drive side - would warrant similar realignment on the chainring for the chainline. Considering that people fuss about the diff of 49mm/52mm - this situation feels like a country mile.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

10mm is a lot for chainline, and I don't see any way that the ring would be able to move 10mm inwards looking at the pics on Kona's website. 

I'm pretty much banking on buying a new crank. Oh well. This is an opportunity to maybe build some wheels that I actually want (narrower for running Hodags). Hopefully any cracking issues are resolved with the chainstay/BB redesign, limiting flex through the rear triangle...


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

I believe the people using the 177 cranks with 197 axle spacing flip the chainring to make up for some of the chainline discrepancy. If you are using mostly the shorter gears (more teeth) vs the taller gears, than this might be ideal.


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## rueger007 (Nov 2, 2007)

just attached photos of 2020 Woo to my post


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks.


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## goose8 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Crankset input*

Howdy all. I picked up a 2020 wozo recently and have been thoroughly enjoying it so far. Out of the gate I swapped out the nx drivetrain for my shimano 11-speed with an 11-46 cassette. I also swapped the brakes, tires, and installed my cockpit & saddle.

I've been having some occasional knee pain while or after riding. It's not tendinitis- if I stop and stretch it goes away. So I think it's muscular and related to body position, probably q-factor. I also want to switch to a 170mm crankset (I've been running these for years without issue) and also move to a smaller chainring. This last bit is easier said than done though- SRAM doesn't make a chainring smaller than 30t in the 6mm outboard offset needed to clear the chainstay. I see a couple of options, and am posting here to see if anyone has tried them.


Get a new SRAM crankset and use a 26t chainring with 0mm offset and hope it clears the chainstay
Get a new SRAM crankset and use a wolftooth camo chainring
Get a new raceface crankset, BB, and chainring with a 6mm offset (because RF chainrings aren't directional, they can be reversed)
Anyone have experience with any of these ideas? Emphasis is on low q-factor and ease of the switch... Thanks in advance. Also, here's a shot from the wild!


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## goose8 (Feb 24, 2007)

I'd be interested in the front wheel if you'd consider splitting them up.

(replying to rueger007 regarding the 29+ wheelset)


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## rueger007 (Nov 2, 2007)

goose8 said:


> I'd be interested in the front wheel if you'd consider splitting them up.
> 
> (replying to rueger007 regarding the 29+ wheelset)


I'm gonna CL the Wheelset and if no bites then rebuild rear with a 197. thx


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## azfishman (May 7, 2010)

Anyone interested I have a complete XL Wozo over on the PB buy/sell. 

Cheers


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

FWIW, I am selling my 2020 Wozo frame. Hasn't been taken out of the box. 

Kona was great about warrantying the frame and gave me no problems, I just couldn't justify the cost of new wheels and crank when I could get a decent price on a Surly Wednesday frame. If someone is interested in a brand new 2020 Large Wozo frame, let me know and we can talk price. 



Thanks.


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## solarbri (Jan 27, 2009)

Nice work! 
I'd be interested in buying some of these if they're not TOO spendy. 
Can you make more easily?



GusM said:


> Folks -
> 
> I was having some trouble fitting the 27.5 x 4.5 barbs on 80mm rims in my frame without rubbing. Seems like it works for some and not others. I really wanted to run the big hoops, so I designed and had made some dropout inserts with 10mm more rearward offset. They turned out well and so far so good.
> 
> ...


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## solarbri (Jan 27, 2009)

I recently received my 2020 wozo xl, and I can say for a fact that there is plenty of room to run BIG tires. I switched out the 3.8 minions to 4.5 cake eaters and there’s plenty of room, even with the dropouts adjusted all the way in!
I’m very happy with my purchase. 
I do wish I could have just bought a frame set so I could have built it up with a bit sweeter kit, but oh well...
Dreaming of a carbon wheel set, and running this bike year round (3.5-3.8 summer, 4.5 winter).


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## Jingleman (Sep 15, 2004)

Hello

can you help me?
Does anybody know what si the max insertion length available for a dropper on a small Wozo frame?
thank you


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## crash41984 (Aug 20, 2019)

Same question. I’ve got a 2019 Wozo, Medium, in desperate need of a dropper. Can anyone tell me which size Crankbros Highline I should order? I’ve never used/installed a dropper before.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Jingleman said:


> Hello
> 
> can you help me?
> Does anybody know what si the max insertion length available for a dropper on a small Wozo frame?
> thank you


I have a 30" pants inseam, which is probably long for a small size, but fits my T-Rex Arms.

I just checked my dropper, which is a Brand X (works very well). The main tube,not including the actuating mechanism, was able to go into the seat tube 6" or 152mm.

Still have my 125mm Brand X Dropper and just checked that. With the 6" of insertion, the top of the Dropper was 9 1/2" (241mm) from top of seat tube to the top of the Dropper post.

I had exactly the opposite problem you have. The 125 mm Brand X Dropper did not allow me to raise the seat high enough so I went to the 150mm Brand X which allowed me to get to the 450mm seat tube I needed. I'm long legged for a small frame. The 150mm Dropper only had a 1/2" or so of play to fit. a 170mm would not insert deep enough.

Hope this helps you out.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

crash41984 said:


> Same question. I've got a 2019 Wozo, Medium, in desperate need of a dropper. Can anyone tell me which size Crankbros Highline I should order? I've never used/installed a dropper before.


Check my response to Jingleman. I think you can safely add 2" from what I measured on my small frame, so it would me 8" (203mm) of insertion. YMMV - this is a guess supposing they just added 2" and didn't change the angle of dangle for wheel clearance on a medium.


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## Jingleman (Sep 15, 2004)

Bumpyride said:


> I have a 30" pants inseam, which is probably long for a small size, but fits my T-Rex Arms.
> 
> I just checked my dropper, which is a Brand X (works very well). The main tube,not including the actuating mechanism, was able to go into the seat tube 6" or 152mm.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much Bumbyride
That's exactly the info I was looking for..
It seems then that a small has very short space inside the seat tube.. 
I wanted to fit a 440mm Reverb 150mm post but that would result to a too high sitting position.. I need a distance of about..650mm from center of BB and saddle rails.
By you calculations, my seatpost would be 20mm too high..
I then would need to buy a shorter 150mm post like a OneUp or similar..
Don't know if I still interested in that frame anymore.. Offer was good but if I add the new post expense..maybe not much..
Thanks again, very helpful!!!


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Jingleman said:


> Thank you so much Bumbyride
> That's exactly the info I was looking for..
> It seems then that a small has very short space inside the seat tube..
> I wanted to fit a 440mm Reverb 150mm post but that would result to a too high sitting position.. I need a distance of about..650mm from center of BB and saddle rails.
> ...


What you give up by passing on the Wozo is that trail oriented geometry. That short chain stay length is absolutely great. I found the 125mm dropper post more than sufficient, but I needed the length of a longer post for minimum insertion, and that's the only reason I went to a 150mm.


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

I had a set of 29er wheels built up to run 2.6 tires. The bike absolutely rips in this mode.


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## solarbri (Jan 27, 2009)

I've also been riding my Wozo with 29 x 3" tires on carbon plus wheels Absolutely crushes!


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

I find I need a new rotor on 2017 Wozo. Anyone put a 203mm on front and 180 on rear? Have the Mastodon Ext Comp Fork. Would like more braking power for long downhills.

Also thinking about some new brakes, any suggestions without breaking the bank? Currently on Shimano BR-M447. If the 203 mm rotors are used, should give me more power with the 447s


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Anyone selling an XL Wozo ? I think there was a guy here few months ago .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

azfishman said:


> Anyone interested I have a complete XL Wozo over on the PB buy/sell.
> 
> Cheers


Yes !!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

telejefe said:


> Will consider myself lucky. Got about 600 miles on mine and I am 220#'s. Ride both as 27.5 fat and 29+. I sure hope it keeps going, but lifetime warranty is nice. Swapping a hub and BB is not to big a thing for the new frame, not sure that would bother me much.
> 
> Not changing to another bike. At 6'4" the XL is huge and perfect. Not other fat comes even close to fit.
> 
> ...sure wish i could figure rotation and mtbr...


I've looked @ them all - nothing compares to Wozo reach and stack .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

Looking to migrate from my DengFu fM190 to the 2020 Wozo since it has went to the 197 rear. Think it will fit my carbon 100mm rim with a 4.8 Lou in the rear?


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

The WoZo is officially Discontinued per my conversation today with Kona.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

This is not great news. However I'm not surprised, the last 2 years didn't appear to sell that well......and all the cracking probably didn't help.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

nitrousjunky said:


> This is not great news. However I'm not surprised, the last 2 years didn't appear to sell that well......and all the cracking probably didn't help.


The geometry is unbelievable but the bike had a cheap look to it - especially the welds.

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## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

TheNatureBoy said:


> The WoZo is officially Discontinued per my conversation today with Kona.


Bummer. I wonder if both the Wozo and Woo will be discontinued, or maybe just the higher-priced Wozo?

I am not aware of any other stock frames with geometry like the Wozo. I might be looking at a custom frame if my Wozo breaks.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

blizzard_mk said:


> Bummer. I wonder if both the Wozo and Woo will be discontinued, or maybe just the higher-priced Wozo?
> 
> I am not aware of any other stock frames with geometry like the Wozo. I might be looking at a custom frame if my Wozo breaks.


I'm looking for an xl - I'm almost 6 "5"

The Woo reach is actually longer than the Wozo ... 515 xl. That's xxl in Santa Cruz bikes.

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## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

TheNatureBoy said:


> I'm looking for an xl - I'm almost 6 "5"
> 
> The Woo reach is actually longer than the Wozo ... 515 xl. That's xxl in Santa Cruz bikes.


I'm guessing the Woo and Wozo have the same frame, but the fork is shorter on the Woo so the reach gets longer?


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

TheNatureBoy said:


> I'm looking for an xl - I'm almost 6 "5"
> 
> The Woo reach is actually longer than the Wozo ... 515 xl. That's xxl in Santa Cruz bikes.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I am 6'5" and will never sell my wozo - it is a better fit than a past Fuel Ex XXL. It is amazing. Built up a 2018 blue frame only. I hope I don't break it. I run 27.5x4 vanhelgas in winter and 29+ occasionally as a second bike in summer. Might limit rides to make sure I do not break (very common for me).

Sad news on discontinuing.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

WoZo is definitely gone, but the frame lives on in the Woo complete option - https://www.konaworld.com/woo.cfm


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## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

nitrousjunky said:


> WoZo is definitely gone, but the frame lives on in the Woo complete option - https://www.konaworld.com/woo.cfm


That's good news! Sweet color too


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## mgd (Jan 4, 2011)

If anyone is looking for a Wozo, I'd be remotely interested in selling. (but I'm not trying because I love the bike and it's my only MTB)

I'm in the chicago suburbs.
Mine is the purple 2019, size medium. Upgrades are:
E13 9-46 cassette
https://www.nextie.com/plus-jungle-fox-52mm-NXT27JF52 Jungle Fox carbon wheels, 27.5" with i9 hydra hubs.
Teravail Coronado 3" and second set of Hodag 3.8" tires
PNW dropper


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

I’d buy the XL damn


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

blizzard_mk said:


> That's good news! Sweet color too


Not 27.5 - no suspension

That sux

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## solarbri (Jan 27, 2009)

*Bummer...*


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

solarbri said:


> View attachment 1362907


Dang, I'm sorry to see another one down. Always in the same area. I had the 2017 that cracked there. My 2018 is still doing well, but I am always hesitant to get too "rad" on it because I don't want to break it and be without it. It is by far the overall most fun bike I ever have ridden.


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

rvercoe said:


> It is by far the overall most fun bike I ever have ridden.


Ditto - Best fitting funnies bike in my history saga of bikes. Especially for us tall guys - such a great fit. Will never part ways with it and take it on the easy side.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Love the geo but this bike has always looked cheap in the weld areas .


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

solarbri said:


> View attachment 1362907


Dang this is the redesigned 197 rear frame too isn't it?


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## solarbri (Jan 27, 2009)

nitrousjunky said:


> Dang this is the redesigned 197 rear frame too isn't it?


Yup. I just bought her in February. 
Been riding her as a 29+ bike all summer. 
Love! However, now I know where the incessant creaking has been coming from. 
🙄


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## htrdoug (Mar 19, 2011)

Kona needs to suck it up and build steel Wozo frames.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

htrdoug said:


> Kona needs to suck it up and build steel Wozo frames.


+1 :thumbsup:


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

htrdoug said:


> Kona needs to suck it up and build steel Wozo frames.


+2 :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## shortbutfunky (Mar 5, 2014)

Does anyone know if the geo for the 2021 Woo is different than the old Wozo? On the Kona site they show the 2021 Woo with a HA of 69.2 degrees with a 515mm long rigid fork. If I wanted to put a 100mm travel fork on it (so about 490mm length with sag), that would make for about a 71ish degree head angle for the Woo. Is that right? Seems really steep 

I thought the Wozo was slacker. I think it was spec’d with an 100mm Mastodon, so guessing the fork length used with sag would have been like 500 or less with something like a 68 degree HA. With a 515mm fork the wozo would be more like 67.5 degrees not steeper at over 69 degrees right?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

shortbutfunky said:


> Does anyone know if the geo for the 2021 Woo is different than the old Wozo? On the Kona site they show the 2021 Woo with a HA of 69.2 degrees with a 515mm long rigid fork. If I wanted to put a 100mm travel fork on it (so about 490mm length with sag), that would make for about a 71ish degree head angle for the Woo. Is that right? Seems really steep
> 
> I thought the Wozo was slacker. I think it was spec'd with an 100mm Mastodon, so guessing the fork length used with sag would have been like 500 or less with something like a 68 degree HA. With a 515mm fork the wozo would be more like 67.5 degrees not steeper at over 69 degrees right?


Correct WoZo never was slack. 69 degree HTA with unsagged Bluto with 521mm axle to crown.


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## shortbutfunky (Mar 5, 2014)

nitrousjunky said:


> Correct WoZo never was slack. 69 degree HTA with unsagged Bluto with 521mm axle to crown.


Huh, I must be getting the wozo confused with another bike. I could have sworn when I was looking into getting a new fat or plus bike before Covid I read an article saying how the wozo had a slack for a fat bike head angle with modern geo. Also thought there was a thread here (can't find now) talking about the wozo's HA and a wozo owner chiming in saying it was like 67.5 with a 120mm fork and that those who were saying it had a steep head angle didn't know what the hell they were talking about. If I remember correctly, the guy was really, really adamant about it. I think I tried to calculated it myself and got over 70 degrees when actually riding with sag, but didn't feel like pushing it.

I now wonder what fat bike was in that article I read? I'll see if I can find it, cause I swear it was the wozo and they said it was slack at like 68 degrees. It might have been older because that is not really slack, but 70-71 seems crazy steep for any modernish mtb, even a fat bike. Still doesn't sound right for the wozo.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

shortbutfunky said:


> Huh, I must be getting the wozo confused with another bike. I could have sworn when I was looking into getting a new fat or plus bike before Covid I read an article saying how the wozo had a slack for a fat bike head angle with modern geo. Also thought there was a thread here (can't find now) talking about the wozo's HA and a wozo owner chiming in saying it was like 67.5 with a 120mm fork and that those who were saying it had a steep head angle didn't know what the hell they were talking about. If I remember correctly, the guy was really, really adamant about it. I think I tried to calculated it myself and got over 70 degrees when actually riding with sag, but didn't feel like pushing it.
> 
> I now wonder what fat bike was in that article I read? I'll see if I can find it, cause I swear it was the wozo and they said it was slack at like 68 degrees. It might have been older because that is not really slack, but 70-71 seems crazy steep for any modernish mtb, even a fat bike. Still doesn't sound right for the wozo.


Aside from the HTA, it really does have more modern geometry. It has the steeper STA, long reach/front center with short CSs. I had one for about a year. The geometry charts on Kona's website varied every year on what the head tube angle was, but also did the fork length number. Think the slackest they ever had it listed at was 68.5 at full unsagged length. With the numbers published for my year Honzo, I had 69.3 HTA at 20% sag with my 120mm fork. I did run a -1.5° CC Angleset on it for a bit which put it at around 67.7°. It rode really well with that setup, but the Angleset was less than stellar so I removed it.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Bikemusher said:


> +2 :thumbsup::thumbsup:


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

https://konaworld.com/archive/2017/wozo.cfm

69 degrees with the 100mm Bluto.

I'm running a 120mm Mastodon EXT with a 6mm spacer on a size small. Definitely not steep.


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## shortbutfunky (Mar 5, 2014)

Bumpyride said:


> https://konaworld.com/archive/2017/wozo.cfm
> 
> 69 degrees with the 100mm Bluto.
> 
> I'm running a 120mm Mastodon EXT with a 6mm spacer on a size small. Definitely not steep.


Thanks! There is a near by Kona dealer as well as others and I want to buy and be able to get support. Was looking at online also, but like the idea of the LBS for help/maintenance. Was checking out so many bikes before Covid I can't remember where I landed on what and can't even remember all that i was looking at. So many brands available now it's crazy.

69 degrees is on the fence for being steep I feel, especially compared to what seems like every other new or newer mtb regardless of type even xc. But, going with a longer travel fork is something that makes sense anyways and as you pointed out, help to slacken it out to something somewhat closer to modern. Although, that would pretty much negate any of the steep seat angle aspects and reduce the reach some. However seems long enough that the reach will not be an issue and a steep SA isn't needed on a HT anyways.


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## shortbutfunky (Mar 5, 2014)

Bumpyride said:


> https://konaworld.com/archive/2017/wozo.cfm
> 
> 69 degrees with the 100mm Bluto.
> 
> I'm running a 120mm Mastodon EXT with a 6mm spacer on a size small. Definitely not steep.


Sorry, but not looking like this bike is all it is cracked up to be for 2020. This may not be popular here, but not concerned about that as what I learned I feel is important information to share for others who are looking into maybe buying one of these.

I was checking out that geo chart and looks like that is showing the static geometry numbers for their hardtail. And on top of that, showing 521mm fork length for a 100mm bluto, but the 100mm bluto actually has a fork length of 511. Soooo, with sag, this bike rides even steeper with a head angle of like 70.5 or 71 degrees :eekster:. That is steeeeeeep!

That is a total deal breaker. I realize the bike has a roomy reach, but so do a lot of other fat bikes, however, they don't have head tube angles from last century like the wozo. Can't be considered modern geo with a HA close to 70 degrees let alone something steeper. Doesn't matter what the other numbers are.



nitrousjunky said:


> Aside from the HTA, it really does have more modern geometry. It has the steeper STA, long reach/front center with short CSs. I had one for about a year. The geometry charts on Kona's website varied every year on what the head tube angle was, but also did the fork length number. Think the slackest they ever had it listed at was 68.5 at full unsagged length. With the numbers published for my year Honzo, I had 69.3 HTA at 20% sag with my 120mm fork. I did run a -1.5° CC Angleset on it for a bit which put it at around 67.7°. It rode really well with that setup, but the Angleset was less than stellar so I removed it.


With such a steep head tube angle that really limits this bike, even with some other modern geo numbers like the reach. The super short chainstay was considered modern back in like 2015, which actually goes hand in hand with the super steep (for today) head angle and explains a lot. Bike companies that use progressive geo have learned and are now focusing on proper balance front to back. And sure, I could way over-fork the bike and/or add spacers or whatever, but that is going to jack up the rest of the geo that is suppose to make this bike great. A much longer fork will slacken out the seat angle, shorten the reach, raise the BB and screw the handling. Plus, because it is so damn steep to begin with, that is only going to get the head angle to something like maybe 69 degrees with sag which is still way too steep for a proper a mtb in 2020.

So, the options are: leave as is and have a super sketchy and steep head tube angle, or overfork the **** out of it to get a kinda of acceptable head angle (but not really) and ruin the other good geo numbers. Not good either way and not something I would want to spend good money on to then have to make major tweaks to.

Now, I didn't realize this until reading your post and checking out the rest of this thread, but the wozo has not had a geometry update since it first came out. I was thinking that when they went from 26" to 27.5" they updated the geo for it as the geo chart numbers changed between those years. But looks like Kona has just kept the frame the same from when it first came out in and the only changes really made was a different length fork used on the geo chart, none of which are accurate by the way.

On top of that, according to others in this thread, Kona messed up when designing this bike in thinking that a 100mm bluto had a 521mm a to c and then never modified frames or correcting the geo charts after they figured that out. :skep:. And then, when I asked my Kona dealer why the 27.5" version of the wozo didn't have an ext mastodon to match the 27.5" wheels, he said he's pretty sure it was originally supposed to come stock with that, but someone at Kona didn't quite get that message. He explained that is why the most current geo charts for the wozo show a fork length of 531mm with a HA of 68.5 degrees even though they all came stock with the standard 100mm mastodons at a 511mm fork length. When I said, well I guess you could just change the fork length from 100mm to 120mm to get it at 531mm, he let me know that the 100mm mastodon can't be extended to 120mm, so I would need to get an entirely new fork. :madman:

Wow, just wow. Oh, and apparently the frames are known to crack according to this thread as well.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

shortbutfunky said:


> Sorry, but not looking like this bike is all it is cracked up to be for 2020. This may not be popular here, but not concerned about that as what I learned I feel is important information to share for others who are looking into maybe buying one of these.
> 
> Wow, just wow. Oh, and apparently the frames are known to crack according to this thread as well.


Yep. To each his own.

I have 2 of these bikes, one in each of the states that I spend the most time in, and wouldn't trade them for anything. They are dialed in perfectly. Don't really care what the numbers are, I do care how it rides.

But then again, my favorite Snowboard is a 2000 Burton Coil, which is a Carving Hard Boot Board, and all I ride is bumps and I ride 50 to 75 days a year. It reminds me of the Wozo, and I wouldn't those boards that for anything either.

Seems like most of the guys love them, so try not to rain on the parade.

Best of luck to find a bike that suits you. Lots of good bikes out there.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Anyone selling an XL Wozo ? I think there was a guy here few months ago .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Backcountry in Truckee has them in stock and on sale. I think they ship, but not positive. Medium and large and they said they have more in storage probably XL as well they think. They said it was on a pretty good discount $1,800ish. Not bad for a bike with an MSRP of like $2,700.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

singletrackmack said:


> Backcountry in Truckee has them in stock and on sale. I think they ship, but not positive. Medium and large and they said they have more in storage probably XL as well they think. They said it was on a pretty good discount $1,800ish. Not bad for a bike with an MSRP of like $2,700.


Awesome I'll give them a ring thx !

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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Can the 2018 version of the wozo take 27.5 and still use the bluto fork? 



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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

It's been a long time since I read through this thread.

What's the largest 26" tyre the Wozo will take out back? I've a blue 2018 and I'd like something bigger than the 4.0 it came with that I'm still running.


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## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

6thElement said:


> It's been a long time since I read through this thread.
> 
> What's the largest 26" tyre the Wozo will take out back? I've a blue 2018 and I'd like something bigger than the 4.0 it came with that I'm still running.


I’ve run 45Nrth 4.6 dunder beist and 4.6 wrathchild. Both work with the dropouts slid back a little bit. Maybe 5 to 10 mm out. I think 4.8 would be too big. I also have a 2018 blue frame, size medium.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

blizzard_mk said:


> I’ve run 45Nrth 4.6 dunder beist and 4.6 wrathchild. Both work with the dropouts slid back a little bit. Maybe 5 to 10 mm out. I think 4.8 would be too big. I also have a 2018 blue frame, size medium.


I was optimistically hoping for 4.4"s, if a 4.6" Dunderbeist will fit that should stop my eyeing up swapping to a Mayor any time soon.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

6thElement said:


> It's been a long time since I read through this thread.
> 
> What's the largest 26" tyre the Wozo will take out back? I've a blue 2018 and I'd like something bigger than the 4.0 it came with that I'm still running.


Small frame but running Jumbo Jims 4.4 on both of them. Had to true the spokes because it was so close that it was running on the chain when it was out of true. Did not have to change the dropouts. They're all the way forward 420mm. Also running 27.5 with Gnarwahls 4.0, but 4.5 did not fit.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Bumpyride said:


> Small frame but running Jumbo Jims 4.4 on both of them. Had to true the spokes because it was so close that it was running on the chain when it was out of true. Did not have to change the dropouts. They're all the way forward 420mm. Also running 27.5 with Gnarwahls 4.0, but 4.5 did not fit.


Good point, I hadn't pondered chain to tyre clearance when in the 42T cog out back. I'd only been considering chainstay clearance.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Fitted the first Dunderbeist to my large Wozo last night, only had to slide the dropout back a couple of mm to ensure max clearance on the side knobs. Plenty of clearance, thank you @blizzard_mk

Getting the rear Minion FBR unseated was one of those tasks you don't want to have to do too often, that sucker was stuck fast. A healthy amount of congealed orange seal sub zero sealant in there too. I knew there was from the way the wheel was rolling. So I guess I need to unseat the front 4.8 FBF and clean that out too.

Then I just need to repeat the above on my wife's medium.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Dragging this thread up.

So, got a deal on some new 150/177 hubs and I think I'm going to build a summer wheelset for the Wozo. Keep me entertained with something novel until I can get next years XC bike. Anyway, IIRC, the 29x2.6 are still within tolerance height-wise vs a proper (going extinct) 29+, correct? 

Going for longer days in the saddle and covering terrain/distance vs. absolute speed. Least possible pedaling effort.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

There’s a mint wozo on Pinkbike I’m thinking of grabbing . 


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

TheNatureBoy said:


> There’s a mint wozo on Pinkbike I’m thinking of grabbing .


I've really liked mine (blue vintage) - hoots of fun & utility. Built from frame-up so pretty select part spec. For me, having the Mastodon is a must. Between the 2 wheelset (26 big fat, 27.5 fat lite) it covers a lot of ground - the 29 should add even more. 

If you get an older used one, be sure the seller gives you a real clear, up close image of the seat stays to seat tube junction - that's the one common flaw spot that some ppl suffered. Micro cracks at the welds. I believe that was only the 177 rear models and the 197 were strengthened.

Cheers.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Carl Mega said:


> I've really liked mine (blue vintage) - hoots of fun & utility. Built from frame-up so pretty select part spec. For me, having the Mastodon is a must. Between the 2 wheelset (26 big fat, 27.5 fat lite) it covers a lot of ground - the 29 should add even more.
> 
> If you get an older used one, be sure the seller gives you a real clear, up close image of the seat stays to seat tube junction - that's the one common flaw spot that some ppl suffered. Micro cracks at the welds. I believe that was only the 177 rear models and the 197 were strengthened.
> 
> Cheers.


Thanks !


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Carl Mega said:


> I've really liked mine (blue vintage) - hoots of fun & utility. Built from frame-up so pretty select part spec. For me, having the Mastodon is a must. Between the 2 wheelset (26 big fat, 27.5 fat lite) it covers a lot of ground - the 29 should add even more.
> 
> If you get an older used one, be sure the seller gives you a real clear, up close image of the seat stays to seat tube junction - that's the one common flaw spot that some ppl suffered. Micro cracks at the welds. I believe that was only the 177 rear models and the 197 were strengthened.
> 
> Cheers.


Thanks !


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I'm still on a blue 2018 with 177 rear end, no issues. But those on PB both looked like XL's, those are pretty huge bikes. I'm 6'2" on a L.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Carl Mega said:


> summer wheelset for the Wozo...
> 
> ...a proper (going extinct) 29+, correct?


29+ is alive and well. More than a dozen tire options still in production.

Your vintage blue Wozo frame is far, far more likely to die waaaaaaay before 29+.


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

mikesee said:


> Your vintage blue Wozo frame is far, far more likely to die waaaaaaay before 29+.


Mike speaks the truth. I had 2 of those paper mache frames fail.... Unfortunate, because it was my favorite bike frame of all time. Loved my Wozos.

29+ on the Wozo is a great combo!


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Your vintage blue Wozo frame is far, far more likely to die waaaaaaay before 29+.


Probably true. Though I've ridden the hell out of mine (year round) since buying it new, full gnar so who knows? 

In fairness, I'd be sort of 29+ lite with the 2.6 so I'm like one foot in, feeling the bath water temp.

If I had any bike already running lighter tires, I'd think about big meats here. But I don't, so I have a different goal in mind. At the moment, target tire is 2.6 Rekon which are sub 900gr. Probably on a 30ish ID rim to keep a "bit bigger' and a "bit smaller" still in play but admittedly sub-optimal which is fine.

If it eventually all goes to hell, I'm going to custom build something from Walt probably. Very similar but with the lowest Q-factor that will still work.

Cheers.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

You all had me feeling nostaligic re: Blue vintage. My maiden Nov, 2017 post. Many parts survived this original build but important improvements. I do want to pour one out for my fallen homie Brown Silverrado saddle rails - when they broke this year, I nearly man cried. The brown really mutes the blue.



Carl Mega said:


> View attachment 1169385
> 
> 
> So I got my build complete and did two rides. Super fun - this this is like a barrel of monkeys.. It met my hopes which were significantly higher than my expectations. I have to confess, I've been mired in the negative 1st 3 stages of Fatbiking: Dismissal - Mockery - Hostility - Acceptance - Reward. I get it now. Sorry.
> ...


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

I’m still abusing my Blue with a -2 Angleset and swapping between 2.6 29er wheels and 4.0 26er wheels. Fingers crossed for many more years of thrashing.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Those 2.6 look, pretty...pretty good. Mind if I ask what width rim? I'm running 36ID on my other bikes targeting 2.6 and I think I talked myself back into that width here.


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

40mm internal width.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Well, the WoZo is one of those bikes I've really regretted selling.


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

Yes! I have your old one and it still rips.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Bluebeat007 said:


> Yes! I have your old one and it still rips.


Yep, remember that it went to you and am glad to see you are enjoying it!! Think you posting pics of it..... may have kept the desire to get another in my head too, lol!


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

When my first one cracked, I had it warrantied but they only had the 197 frames at that point. Definitely wish I'd have had it gusseted and re-heat treated. Would have been worth the cost to get it repaired the right way to keep riding.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Shinkers said:


> When my first one cracked, I had it warrantied but they only had the 197 frames at that point. Definitely wish I'd have had it gusseted and re-heat treated. Would have been worth the cost to get it repaired the right way to keep riding.


Did you build up the 197 or sell it off?


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Sold it and bought a Wednesday frame. 

It's crazy, I remember a few years ago there was some talk that 177 would phase out 197. Now DT doesn't even make 177 hubs anymore.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Shinkers said:


> Sold it and bought a Wednesday frame.
> 
> It's crazy, I remember a few years ago there was some talk that 177 would phase out 197. Now DT doesn't even make 177 hubs anymore.


Yeah the new 177 hub options are getting hard to find.....


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Removed


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Bit of an update bump for the few of us still riding this bike. Just installed a Works -2 degree HS and, man, that's what this bike needed. Doesn't feel slack, it feels...normal. And that's on top of already running a lot more A2C via Mastodon ~130mm.

Been riding this bike a fair bit over the last month and sorting it out. Running 29x3.0 right now and getting it dialed for some bikepacking next year. Pretty much there. 

I think a 3 wheelset platform like this makes a lot of sense (for me) and when this one dies or I get motivated, I'll use it as a template for a similar custom but with 83mm BB. Does get me thinking if I could soft-tale the concept and lessen long distance fatigue?

Cheers all... almost time to put the fats back on and full on snow.


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

Yeah, man!!! -2 on my Wozo with a long AC custom fork and the ride is brilliant.


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

Snow mode.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

^Inspiration. Weather change. Did my last 29x3 ride of the year yesterday. On snow, not great. Swapped wheels. Same ride today with my mid fats 27.5x3.8 - super fun! 4th tire combo of the year. Was thinking about what an unsung work horse it's been: least amount of wrenching, least $ spent, ridden exclusively for 3 months and off-n-on for another 3. If I'd had to pick only two bikes, it'd be this and my SST. If I had to pick 1 Wozo wheelset, 27.5 mids are my most fun, but master of none. Smartest range tho: bookend 29x3 for summer exploring, with 26x4+ for snow exclusively. Endless possibilities. Waiting for the deep before busting out the big meats.

29x3









Today's mid-fats:


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Bluebeat007 said:


> Yeah, man!!! -2 on my Wozo with a long AC custom fork and the ride is brilliant.
> View attachment 2013670


Looks like a 36er with those proportions.

My wife and I are still rocking blue Wozo's, the original 26x4.8 FBF on the front with a 4.6 Dunderbeist on the back.


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## Elbe (May 17, 2021)

Has anyone tried to fit or ride 4.5 Barbegazi on 2019 mode Wozo with 65mm mulefut rim? I found picture with 80mm and it was too close. Thinking if 65mm rim do the trick?


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