# Is this bike too small?



## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

Hey guys,

I’m shopping for a new bike and am having trouble making a decision. I’m 6’6 with a 37” inseam. I’ve narrowed it down to a handful of bikes but before I make a decision I wanted some opinions. I’m coming from a 2018 Trek Fuel EX8 which I thought fit me rather well. I’ve read a bunch of threads about geometry, specifically aimed at taller riders but am no expert. One of the bikes i’m interested in is a Commencal Meta TR 29. The spec on this bike is great for the price, but i’m concerned about the size. The Meta has a reach of 500mm and 630mm stack. Based on my research and comparing to my Trek, I feel like maybe it will be too small? The Trek had a reach of 507mm and 644mm stack. Will these differences, especially in the stack be noticeable? Something comparable like the YT Jeffsy in size XXL is probably a better option but I just can’t get past the Sram SX Drivetrain... let me know what you guys think!


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

I'm 6'5" and think it would be too small for me. That stack height is about 30-40mm lower than what I prefer. Given that reach is measured at the stack, that bike will feel shorter too. You'd have to run at least a 10mm longer stem to get the same fit. That's going to be noticeable. It's going to come down to personal preference but my guess is you'll struggle with the low stack height.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Its too small. Get a longer top tube bike first. Unless you dont care about pedalling.


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## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

jeremy3220 said:


> I'm 6'5" and think it would be too small for me. That stack height is about 30-40mm lower than what I prefer. Given that reach is measured at the stack, that bike will feel shorter too. You'd have to run at least a 10mm longer stem to get the same fit. That's going to be noticeable. It's going to come down to personal preference but my guess is you'll struggle with the low stack height.


What would you say I should target for stack numbers based on my dimensions? Somehow I always find myself coming back to the Trek Fuel after weighing all other options. It looks like the Fuel also got longer and slacker this year not to mention it has decent spec for the money.


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## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

Pedaling is probably more important to me than anything. Basically I want a bike that can do it all. I considered the YT Jeffsy in XXL, although i'm thinking it might be too much travel for what I need. The new YT Izzo looks like an interesting option but only available in Carbon for now.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

car_nut15 said:


> What would you say I should target for stack numbers based on my dimensions? Somehow I always find myself coming back to the Trek Fuel after weighing all other options. It looks like the Fuel also got longer and slacker this year not to mention it has decent spec for the money.


For me the minimum is around 645mm but prefer closer to 665mm. It depends on reach to a degree because the longer the reach the more wiggle room I have to raise the stem without the bars coming back too far. Seat tube angle matters too because the steeper the STA the higher your saddle will be and the more you'll probably want to raise the bars. My inseam is 36" so your saddle is going to be even higher than mine.



car_nut15 said:


> Pedaling is probably more important to me than anything. Basically I want a bike that can do it all. I considered the YT Jeffsy in XXL, although i'm thinking it might be too much travel for what I need. The new YT Izzo looks like an interesting option but only available in Carbon for now.


The Izzo is a pretty good deal for a carbon bike. The two other options that will probably fit you well are the Santa Cruz Tallboy and Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol. Unfortunately there's just not that many options out there that are going to fit well without going to a longer stem or trying to get the saddle back.


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## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

jeremy3220 said:


> For me the minimum is around 645mm but prefer closer to 665mm. It depends on reach to a degree because the longer the reach the more wiggle room I have to raise the stem without the bars coming back too far. Seat tube angle matters too because the steeper the STA the higher your saddle will be and the more you'll probably want to raise the bars. My inseam is 36" so your saddle is going to be even higher than mine.
> 
> The Izzo is a pretty good deal for a carbon bike. The two other options that will probably fit you well are the Santa Cruz Tallboy and Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol. Unfortunately there's just not that many options out there that are going to fit well without going to a longer stem or trying to get the saddle back.


I was literally ready to pull the trigger on a Tallboy until my LBS told me size XXL only comes in Carbon! That was a real deal breaker for me. GG bikes also look like a great option but out of my price range. I can't find any other decent options that would fit me properly.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

car_nut15 said:


> I was literally ready to pull the trigger on a Tallboy until my LBS told me size XXL only comes in Carbon! That was a real deal breaker for me.


Why is that a deal breaker? Price?


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## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

Yes the Carbon is out of my price range and the spec on the base carbon bike is nothing special.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

car_nut15 said:


> Yes the Carbon is out of my price range and the spec on the base carbon bike is nothing special.


Then I think the Izzo or the Fuel Ex 8 may be your best options.


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## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

Between those two bikes which one would you choose geo wise? Based on what I see they look very similar.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

car_nut15 said:


> Between those two bikes which one would you choose geo wise? Based on what I see they look very similar.


Yeah, they're really similar. I'd probably go for the Izzo based on the steeper STA and lower weight but there's not many real reviews out there yet.


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## manpurse (Feb 6, 2011)

Have you looked at a Pole Evolink 131? Aluminum frame. You can't buy them directly on the website but they are still selling them. Stack is 620 so if you wanted closer to 660 stack (~1.5") you could get that with spacers and rise in the stem and bars. Steep seat tube angle for pedaling. They also have the Evolink 140 but it's more travel.


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## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

manpurse said:


> Have you looked at a Pole Evolink 131? Aluminum frame. You can't buy them directly on the website but they are still selling them. Stack is 620 so if you wanted closer to 660 stack (~1.5") you could get that with spacers and rise in the stem and bars. Steep seat tube angle for pedaling. They also have the Evolink 140 but it's more travel.


The Evolink has popped up a few times now. Not sure how I feel about ordering a bike from Europe (Im in Canada) I would probably get slammed with Duties.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

The potential issue with running riser bars is that it makes your effective stem length longer. In other words, your steerer tube (aka steering axis) is at a ~66° angle and as you raise the bars vertically (90°) the distance between your bars and steering axis increases. So you'd also have to run a shorter stem if you wanted to retain that same steering feel but with the bars higher. I'm already running about 20mm of spacers under my stem with a 666mm stack so that's the reason I'm picky about stack height.


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## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

If you took a bike like the Devinci Django with a 490mm reach and 645mm stack and added a 20mm longer stem would the bike still handle properly?


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

As for hardtails. The honzo and wozo are good bikes.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

car_nut15 said:


> If you took a bike like the Devinci Django with a 490mm reach and 645mm stack and added a 20mm longer stem would the bike still handle properly?


It will definitely change the handling. Personally, I won't buy a bike that I have to run longer than a 50mm stem on. I don't think stem length should be a fit metric, it should be chosen based on handling characteristics. I have a 40mm stem on my enduro bike and a 50mm stem on my hardtail and it suits their respective applications. So no, I wouldn't buy the Django with the intention of putting a 70mm stem on it. Actually If I bought the Izzo, I'd swap the bars to 800mm and replace the 60mm stem for a 50mm.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Btw, why are you wanting to replace your current Fuel Ex?


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## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

I sold it because I didn’t have time to ride it last season. I Should have kept it but you live and learn. I liked the bike a lot and I think the 2020 fuel with updated geometry should be even more fun.


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## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

I can potentially get a great deal on a Norco. The Optic looks like it might be borderline with a 638mm stack and 510mm reach.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

ETT still matters. Reach is standing fit, but ETT is sitting fit. If you're getting a bike with slightly shorter reach (7mm is hardly anything) but the STA is much steeper, thats a MUCH more cramped bike. 

Id compare ETT's as well, and note where your seat currently is. If you're on an offset post with the saddle slammed back on the rails, anything even sort of smaller isnt going to work out.

Comparing the norcos, it looks like its going to be about 20mm more cramped when seated. Thats no small difference!


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Stack is a standing and seated fit because it's going to affect where your bars end up in relation to your saddle. I do agree you need to consider cockpit space and how cramped it might be. Personally I don't look at ETT because I have a really good idea of what STA, reach and stack I'm looking for but if you don't then yeah definitely look at ETT. 

I'm honestly not sure on that Norco. I'd be too afraid to order one without a demo first.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Edited, that was supposed to be reach not stack.

I go by reach and sta too, but that's basically ett indirectly. Same end result.


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## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

One Pivot said:


> ETT still matters. Stack is standing fit, but ETT is sitting fit. If you're getting a bike with slightly shorter reach (7mm is hardly anything) but the STA is much steeper, thats a MUCH more cramped bike.
> 
> Id compare ETT's as well, and note where your seat currently is. If you're on an offset post with the saddle slammed back on the rails, anything even sort of smaller isnt going to work out.
> 
> Comparing the norcos, it looks like its going to be about 20mm more cramped when seated. Thats no small difference!


I always felt very stretched out while sitting on my 2018 Trek fuel to the point my back would start to hurt on longer rides. The Fuel has a longer ETT than most bikes i've looked at in the trail category, not to mention the STA was not as steep as some of the newer bikes these days. I'm thinking maybe the shorter cockpit on the Norco might actually work for me. I find it interesting that the Norco Optic in XL and YT Jeffsy in XXL have very similar geo numbers, yet Norco recommends riders up to 6'3.5" tall on the optic while the Jeffsy is recommended for riders up to 6'6". The new YT Izzo in XXL is rated for riders all the way up to 6'8". It's not an easy decision to make when you can't demo any of these bikes. I'm going based off of how my Trek Fuel felt, which is unfortunately the only real big bike that i've owned.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

No offset on your current post? Already short stem?

If your fuel feels too long seated, the optic would be an improvement... But you can simulate exactly how it feels by pushing your seat 20mm forward on the rails and resting your wrist on the grips instead of palm. It's sort of hokey, but it works for me!


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## car_nut15 (Apr 18, 2018)

One Pivot said:


> No offset on your current post? Already short stem?
> 
> If your fuel feels too long seated, the optic would be an improvement... But you can simulate exactly how it feels by pushing your seat 20mm forward on the rails and resting your wrist on the grips instead of palm. It's sort of hokey, but it works for me!


I sold the fuel last year, i'm going based off of memories ?

The bike was stock with 60mm stem, don't remember the post. Your simulation is making it sound like the Norco would be significantly shorter?


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