# Ebikes bringing about the decline of the rear derailleur and cassette?



## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

I was looking forward to motors with integrated transmission, and a new contender just made itself known, joining at least two others:








Revonte - https://www.pinkbike.com/news/revon...s-gearing-eliminates-the-rear-derailleur.html








- the Continental ebike motor system, based on Nuvinci tech (press release) - https://e-bikerumor.com/2017/09/29/continental-overpowers-new-48v-e-bike-drivetrain-systems/








- the Mubea prototype - https://www.electricbike.com/mubea-motor-transmission-combo-mid-drive-2018/

Eager to see all the trade-offs being minimized, to the point these systems become rational choices over normal bikes. I don't doubt people are worried about resistance when pedaled without battery power.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

......


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

nuvinci cvt hubs have existed for some years... they didnt threaten cassettes before and they wont do it now


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Ebikes bringing the carpocalypse


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Added weight, complexity, and friction. Sounds like an e-bike thing 


If electric bike innovation results in better tech for bicycles I'll take it but I don't think this is it.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The Pinion gearbox is the biggest threat to the rear derailleur on mountain bikes so far and has nothing to do with e-bikes. Mind you by biggest I am not saying the rear derailleur has anything to be particularly worried about yet. But, continued development of the Pinion and similar systems have a shot at dethroning the derailleur...one day.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

I see the weights listed on the Conti CVT and Conti zero-resistance motor shows a 2.5 kg difference.

While I'd like to argue that weight added to a low-center area of the bike is not a burden, but possibly a bonus, and that removing unsprung weight from the rear triangle helps with sensitivity & traction, I cannot judge until I experience the complete package. There's more to consider than just weight, to know if it's worth it. Efficiency trade-offs have me more worried.

Gearboxes are supposedly touted for their higher reliability than RDs and low maintenance, so I dunno about "complexity".

The Mubea article speaks of Effigear, also showing a patent drawing of a "Neox" motor/transmission system:

















I imagine this being paired with "high pivot" bike, which are now coming to trail/enduro bikes (e.g. Forbidden Bike Co - Druid, Deviate - Guide).


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

The revonte website made me think of flying cars; I actually think that I’ll see a flying car before that hits the market.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Integrated transmissions for road commuting will allow the replacement of chains with driveshafts. I would love a 6 speed FS class 3 with an enclosed driveshaft and shock absorbers instead of seatstays for running errands and replacing an ICE or public transit for local trips.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

I have no doubt that on higher end road ebikes used for commuting and general transportation, that integrated motors and transmissions with belt drives will become more prevelant than derailleurs. Cheap ebikes will continue to have hub motors. 

The weight and cost will have to come down for them to become mainstream on 250w emtbs, but I could see it. For 750w emtbs, it'll almost be mandatory since drivetrains won't last long with that much more torque, drivetrain wear is already an issue with 250w ebikes. 

For bikes, an integrated transmission would have to become much, much lighter to take over. Not to mention more efficient. I'd love to see it happen, but physics is a tough master.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

"drivetrain wear is already an issue with 250w ebikes."

There is not a single eMTB made that is just 250w. That would be a 24v system run at 10.5A. The EU spec bikes are 36v @ 15A (minimum) which is 540w (max). The wattage limit is elastic and 250w is just a number used to "adhere" to regulations.

Drivetrain wear is due more to rider error/incompetence. My 780w kit bike has a thousand miles on it's cheap, no name narrow wide offset chainring/Sunrace/KMC/X9 drive train with no end in sight.

Panasonic makes a 2spd mid drive:

https://eu.industrial.panasonic.com...es/downloads/files/catalogue_2016_english.pdf

Still requires more gears and acts more like a double chainring however.


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