# Updating a pair of Stumpjumper's 1996 and 1998



## Fencer54 (Oct 3, 2016)

I have 2 Vintage Stumpjumpers I am looking for some wisdom when it comes to updating them. One 1998 from my dad and a 1996(I believe) from my friends garage left by a previous tenant ages ago. I am currently working on the 1996, it needs new cables and shifters so I have already ordered some ( went with sram x4 and a jagwire set). Both need a replacement of the fork standard 1-1/8 thread-less headset (currently the 1998 has a totally rotted judy xc and the 1996 is the same limping along not far behind). I would like to put a ridged fork in one and a suspended fork in the other. I love these frames and there is something very nostalgic about it being my dads bike that makes the headache of what I'm about to do worth it, but I need help. I dont know how much suspension was in the old Judy fork but couldn't be much given their era, so I am thinking for the sake of not messing with handling I will keep it to 80mm if I can (read this is important am a right?). I am more than willing to update to disc front, what should I do for the fork? Is there any decent modern fork with 80mm travel? I want to get new if I can I don't mind paying a bit but want to keep it as reasonably prices as always. 

Any other advice from people who have worked on late 1990's stumpjumpers would be appreciated.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

well your96 is fine, but posting a 98 in this forum, well you'll probably get shot... far far too new... 

Fork, well yeah most manufactures do make a fork thats 80m and 1-1/8 but they are getting few and far between and are tending towards the lowerer end - with disks, with v-brakes mounts, virtually non existant. But if you go discs, youll also need at least a new hub/wheel as well.

Dos it have cantilever brakes or v-brakes right now(pull from center (canti) or from the side (V)), becasue if V then best thing is to find soemthing from a few years ago either new old stock or 2nd hand, laods of great forks from early 2000's till 2010 or there abouts.


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## Fencer54 (Oct 3, 2016)

Okay an update, the good news is I don't need to be shot I did more research both are 1996, I have the Stumpjumper M2 fs and the Stumpjumper A1 fs. I know they are different metal compounds but does anyone know the actual difference? is the M2 stronger/lighter than A1? Would one lend itself better to a rigid fork than the other?

The A1 fs is what I am working on now. The A1 has vbrakes the M2 cantilever and I have an extra 26inch wheel with disc hub in my spair bike parts pile (willing to buy another). I would prefer a new fork if possible and disc brakes(got a set of avid elixirs sitting around), whats the maximum suspension I could get away with?

For rigid fork any suggestions? I want to keep wide tires, I'm thinking winter commuter

lastly is it possible to put a disc in back? I know there is no mounting point built in but is there some adapter kit out there?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

M2 is metal matrix aluminium (the stick some ceramic in the mix make it lighter, stronger, better blah blah). A1 is regualar aluminium.

for new forks, 80mm and straight steerer; Manitou R7 while you can still find them, Rock Shox Reba and some other el cheapo Rock Shox...and...and m... i think maybe some Fox floats, maybe some of the new Suntours. But best bet is to find NOS oldr forks on ebay and the like.


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## peter.thedrake (Aug 6, 2009)

Quite a few older Fox options. I got lucky on my local craigslist when I was looking and found one that had just been rebuilt.


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

Just a quick note, the older 63 or 80mm suspension generally had an A->C of 420 - 425mm max. Most newer 80mm forks are 445+ which puts the front end up quite a bit. I had this problem even with 80mm forks newer than about 2000 or 2001. Check the A->C measurement before picking anything rigid or suspension. Even an inch (~28mm) in height increase can noticeably change the handling on these older bikes.

I would personally be looking for 98 or 99 SIDs, Judys with the air cartridge (avoid the elastomer crap), or older Marz or Manitou forks.

Something like this would be perfect: Rock Shox Sid 26 inch 1 1 8 x 7 1 4 Cantilver Suspension Fork | eBay

But $250 for a 18 year old fork is pushing it for most people. Otherwise for XC this is still one of my favorites. Comes in at about 1150 - 1250g which is stupid light and needs almost zero maintenance. I still have 2 of them on 90's bontragers, 1 has never been serviced beyond adding air.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

Your shifters might not need replacement, shifters of about that age very commonly get 'sticky', where the ratchets don't catch and one or both shift lever will move freely without moving the cable. Some shops prefer tri-flow which seems to work fine. there's a liquid wrench lube (part number L312, it's a lube with teflon) that works great but might be hard to find. I've also sprayed the shifter out with a plastic-safe electronics cleaner, followed by tri-flow. I have brought a lot of shifters back to life. 
You can probably replace the dissolved elastomers with springs, I have an older bike with a Judy SL, I put springs in there that I found on ebay, it's not anywhere near as good as the Fox on my race bike, but it's very acceptable, and was only about $30 for the springs.


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## Fencer54 (Oct 3, 2016)

It has GripShift x-rays so they gotta go, I actually like Grip Shift style but these are very cheap and the sram x4 set has been good to me in the past. Can I ask what does A->C mean? If it matters the bike is a little undersized so if it just raises the bike up a bit that wouldn't be a bad thing. Are the SID forks easy to rebuild or do they need to be serviced by a professional?


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

Fencer54 said:


> It has GripShift x-rays so they gotta go, I actually like Grip Shift style but these are very cheap and the sram x4 set has been good to me in the past. Can I ask what does A->C mean? If it matters the bike is a little undersized so if it just raises the bike up a bit that wouldn't be a bad thing. Are the SID forks easy to rebuild or do they need to be serviced by a professional?


Sorry, axle to crown distance on the fork, basically from the center of the dropouts to where the crown race seats on the steerer.

The problem on these older bikes is they were designed for a steep head tube angle. When you raise the front end up the bottom bracket gets higher and they can lose a lot of the handling as the head tube angle slackens. It's definitely subjective but if you've ridden these a lot, you'd likely feel the difference immediately. Some people probably don't mind it, but I think it ruins the whole reason to ride these types of bikes.

For the most part the only services that ever needs to be done on these is replacing the wipers and upper seals. I haven't had to tear any of mine all the way down, but you might want to ask in the suspension forum or search for the maintenance manual which should be available online to see exactly what you're looking at. These have 28mm stanchions and it's still easy to get replacement parts for them.


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

There are 2 rigid forks with perfect a/c for you, the 1st version original Surly 1x1 fork, and Gusset Jury SL.


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

There is info online about converting those judys to spring, would be worth your while. You are probably going to drop some coin on anything descent in great shape that fits your needs.


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## dubya3 (May 1, 2016)

I rebuilt my 96 Stumpjumper m2 comp this spring and it was a very easy and straightforward build. It'll cost at least a few hundred bucks, more if you want the better components but you'll be just fine with v Brakes front and back (so you don't have to buy a new wheel). I'm running a 2008 Sid fork with 80mm travel, a custom HED Belgium wheelset that's awesome for light xc, new shimano bb, NOS lx crank, hg50 10 speed cassette, new clutched xt derailuer, raceface nw chainring, 10 speed shimano zee shifter, t780 xt brake levers and calipers. It's super light, crisp and fun. It's actually my favorite bike, ever.









If you have any build questions on how to do something, feel free to message me.

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## dubya3 (May 1, 2016)

Sorry, it's a 9 speed not 10. I'm already getting ahead of myself 

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## Fencer54 (Oct 3, 2016)

That's awesome, I am not new to bike maintenance but a full rebuild is not something i have done before, so I do have a few questions. Mainly when it comes to crankset and bottom bracket. How does replacing the bottom bracket and crank arms go? What measurements do I need to make sure to buy for a bottom bracket, if i am also changing my crank set do I need to buy a different bottom bracket or is the BB only specific to the frame?

I already had a disc brake front wheel laying around and a hydraulic brake so I went ahead and converted that part already. I cannot decide if I want to go single gear in front or keep it with 3 like it came stock, any advice there?


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## dubya3 (May 1, 2016)

I think the BB i used on mine was the Shimano SM- BB70 ($18) and I just used a set of LX cranks that had 3 rings on it. You can buy 1x specific cranks (many come with the bb) but I've converted two 3x bikes and one 2x to 1x drives using the original crank so that's not a problem as long as you use chainring bolt spacers or shorter bolts (6mm or 8mm).

You should be able to use a Shimano Octalink BB or shimano outboard bb like I did, depending on what crank you want to use. I would measure the spindle length on your original crank (it's usually on a sticker once you remove the crank and bb) and try to get as close to that when you get new stuff. I think mine is a 113mm spindle. Don't forget you can probably reuse the original crank and make it 1x with no problems and save some money, that's what I'm doing with a 1992 stumpjumper I'm rebuilding currently. 

As far as 1x, I'm dead set on never having a front derailleur or more than 1 chainring on any of my bikes anymore. 1x is cleaner looking, lower maintenance and a tad lighter. Some people say you need a clutched derailleur and a narrow wide chainring but I never turn the clutch on on my xt derailuer and the chain stays on fine with the N/W chainring. 

Sorry for the blabbing, trying to pour cement at the same time!

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## dubya3 (May 1, 2016)

This is what I used in my 96. You can use most shimano hollowtech cranks with that bb then whatever cassette derailleur and shifter you want.









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## 3RDGENERATIONBIKER (Jul 27, 2017)

I am going to be putting a Manitou R7 on my 95 stumpjumper (will be adjusting to 80mm travel to decrease A-C measurement)...after scouring ebay and CL this was the best thing i could find for a solid fork with v-brake bosses I think it was a good choice. Almost went with a RST first 32 or rockshox recon silver air...Excited to get it on and see how it performs!


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## xcandrew (Dec 30, 2007)

jestep said:


> The problem on these older bikes is they were designed for a steep head tube angle. When you raise the front end up the bottom bracket gets higher and they can lose a lot of the handling as the head tube angle slackens. It's definitely subjective but if you've ridden these a lot, you'd likely feel the difference immediately. Some people probably don't mind it, but I think it ruins the whole reason to ride these types of bikes.


I just updated the fork on my '93 Stumpjumper FS that I've owned and ridden since new, so it's been kept up nicely. (I bought my first bike in 23 years just last week, also Stumpjumper hardtail, but it's a used 2015 29er with carbon wheels. Maybe I'll take some photos of the old and new SJ together...)

The Future Shock air/oil fork (same internals as the Rockshox Mag 21, I think) still held air fine but one leg was pumping oil out. I couldn't find any rebuild kits online, so I figured the fork was about dead, though rideable. I also recently discovered a local bike co-op and their piles of old bike stuff, so I was able to put on a 2000 Judy SL, switch to threadless headset, threadless stem, cantilevers to V-brakes (no hanger for cantis), etc for minimal money. Also aligned my bikejoring crash damaged rear derailleur hanger and damaged XT rear derailleur with a '99 XT rear derailleur while I was at it. A 2000 fork is ancient and a throwaway, but compared to a leaky '93 fork, it's no contest. I left/donated my Future Shock to the co-op fork stash.

I knew before I put the Judy on that it was quite a bit longer, but my guess was that it would mainly do good things for the bike. It's in the 63 mm configuration now, and I will probably keep it there, though maybe I'll try 80 mm too after I get my no-offset seatpost (couldn't find a good quality 27.0 at the co-op... lots of 27.2s). I always though the BB was too low and was always hitting roots... longer fork made it higher, and I'd be happy with higher yet (BB is still lower the BB on my 2015 SJ).

When I got my '93 SJ, I came from road bikes, and with the original 13 cm stem raised to it's max, it was still 8 cm lower than my saddle, lower than on my road bike. That was OK for a while, but not very versatile for everyday riding. Many current XC World Cup racers even have higher bars than that, many with the bars close to saddle height. The long stem and low bars made descending steep stuff terrible. I put on a cheap 9 cm high angle quill stem maybe 10 years ago, and that improved the downhill handling, but out of the saddle climbing was more cramped and bad. With the Judy, I tried several stems from the co-op drawer, and settled with a 10 cm, and was able to get my bars to about level with the saddle for the first time ever. Nice. Going down steep stuff is much better than the original fit.

Slacker angles are the trend now, with lots of hardtails in the 67 degree head angle range (Santa Cruz Chameleon for example, a really hot selling bike). With the Judy, the head angle is now 67 degrees (71 was spec). No complaints about the steering. The angle puts the front wheel further out, so downhills are easier. The seat tube is now 70 degrees (spec is 73). I just ordered a no-offset seatpost to replace the hugely offset original, and that looks like it should be enough to get the saddle forward to where it should be. The only thing is that the cockpit length will be quite a bit shorter, so it probably would ideally fit someone a bit shorter than me now. The bike has plenty of standover to accommodate a shorter person.

Basically, when you put on the longer fork, the geometry is different from a modern hardtail mainly in the seat angle and top tube length. For a 18"/medium sized bike or smaller, the seat angle change can probably be accommodated with a no-offset seatpost and the seat pushed forward. The shorter top tube length than current trends means that you'll have to use a longer than current trend stem, or fit the bike to a smaller rider. When I first put the Judy on, I tried a superlight 10 cm Ritchey WCS stem (25.4)/58 cm bar combo that I found at the co-op, but the bars were too narrow. I had bars cut down to 56 cm on the bike for a long time, but had cut them down too much years ago. The WCS bars also felt too narrow. I then tried a 9 cm stem (31.8) and 70 cm riser bars, but that made the bike too short and awkward, so I switched out to a 10 cm stem again (31.8 that fit more bar options), and then to a flat 70 cm bar last week. It's really nice having a co-op where you can find parts for cheap swapping.

I'm going to spend $30 on Amazon to order some shock oil, shock lube, wiper seals, and foam rings to overhaul the Judy SL. It doesn't feel like there's much damping and adjusting the rebound doesn't do much if anything, and I can hear the coil spring squeak when I compress the fork, so it might not have much oil in it. If that doesn't revive it, I might convert the bike to rigid. There are plenty of old forks at the co-op.


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