# Forest fires in Colorado



## digilux (Mar 23, 2007)

My thoughts goes to our fellow MTB-ers in the MTB Mecca. Looks terrible here on national TV i Norway!


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## Holmes (Jun 23, 2008)

Lots of current information about the fire here - http://forums.mtbr.com/colorado-front-range/high-park-fire-794185-3.html. Not a good scene at all.


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## MTBNate (Apr 6, 2004)

seems like half of New Mexico is on fire this year too...

We're all dreading the forest closures that are sure to happen soon.


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## RIVER29 (Mar 12, 2012)

Yep, I have a front row seat to watching some of the best local riding (and peoples homes) burn down. Sad day!


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## digilux (Mar 23, 2007)

Any historic MTB trails beeing whiped out, NORBA and WC etc trails?


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## RIVER29 (Mar 12, 2012)

digilux said:


> Any historic MTB trails beeing whiped out, NORBA and WC etc trails?


No, but ones good enough to be in that class


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Why is this posted in the "Passion" section? There is a "General" section or EVEN a "Colorado" section that you could talk about this stuff. 

Some of you have some strange passions!

Carry-on...

MTBP


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## RIVER29 (Mar 12, 2012)

MTB Pilot said:


> Why is this posted in the "Passion" section? There is a "General" section or EVEN a "Colorado" section that you could talk about this stuff.
> 
> Some of you have some strange passions!
> 
> ...


Passion for trails and forest is strange in a MTBing forum?


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Yup, had planned Ruidoso area as the first stop on the way to indulge our mtn bike bike riding passion in the Southwest but likely we will use a different route. These fires are huge and terrifying and not contained. Sad, indeed. Condolences to all affected.


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

Thoughts/prayers going out to all involved. I have family not far from High Park. Scary to say the least. The smoke south is pretty bad, can't imagine un north. You all be careful.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

The High Park Fire near Fort Collins is a nasty fire. It grew extremely quickly to around 40,000 acres in the two days since it was reported destroying 100 structures and killing at least one person. It has reportedly jumped over a river and at least one highway. Many trails, if not most of the trails west of Fort Collins have been burned out. Depending on the wind smoke is very thick at times in Denver. 

There is very little chance of rain in the forecast and it may heat up with low humidity in the coming days. Evacuations continue. Reports indicate the fire is currently 5% contained. Chances are this fire won't be entirely extinguished until fall when snow fall occurs. Containment is the goal. Unfortunately there is a lot of available fuel for this fire to burn in the surrounding area.

The folks fortunate enough to live in the Front Range foot hills do so because they love the outdoors just like you and I. It is true that they assumed a certain level of risk by living in the forest. However, they deserve our thoughts as do our riding brethren whose trails have been impacted. 

Here are some photos of the aerial assault on this fire from the Front Range Forum taken by inkpad, fcrider, and onbelaydave. As you can imagine, flying air craft so low, in close proximity to other air craft, and into a low visibility area with the unpredictable things foot hills can do to wind is extremely dangerous. Wild fire fighters and pilots deserve our utmost respect and gratitude. I love Colorado and its pains me to see it burning as much as I know a certain amount of fire is natural. However, this is not a desolate area where a fire can be left to run its course without intervention.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about the mountain bikers, but the people who are losing homes. That is the bigger loss. just my opinion.


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## blumena84 (Jun 5, 2006)

unusually dry for this time of year, I was watching the news and they are saying the dryness of southern california is a month earlier then usual. My hearts and prayers go out to the people who lost or are in the path of fires.


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## Downhill83 (May 7, 2012)

In the summer of 1998 when I was living back in British Columbia, Canada we had a forest fire(caused by lightening). It was one of the most scariest things I have ever lived though. 7000 People in the city alone had to be evacuated(me included). There were some 40 places burned to the ground and there was no lives lost. It's never good waiting when you're going to have to leave your home and everything behind while being under evacuation warning. Once you're under evacuation alert we had 5 minutes to get our stuff and leave. The only things you're taking with you are the things you could fit in your vehicle. We had evacuated to a town that was an hour or so away(we had family there). We were gone for a few weeks because we weren't allowed to return home(heat, wind, no rain). The only times we got any information is by watching the news, it seemed like there was no end in sight. Seeing the town with no one in it except police, fire etc wasn't a good feeling. In the end no lives were lost. Even to this day when I go home you can tell where the fires trail was tracked. Still a lot of tress are burnt etc. There was a lot of trees that have grown back and covered the carnage in which the fire had caused. 

So for any one of you are in around the area of where those fires are, please volunteer. Get out there and send your donations. For anyone that heard of the Slave Lake fire in Alberta, it was a lot of the volunteers who did a lot of work as well, but it wasn't really noticed. So me being through a forest fire, from one mountain biker to another. Do whatever you can to help, I'm sure that people would surly appreciate it.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

The High Park fire near Fort Collins is a very serious fire. It has burned approximately 50,000 acres. It is the third largest fire in Colorado history in terms of acreage burned. It has destroyed 181 houses making it the most destructive fire in Colorado history in terms of homes lost. Close to 1,600 fire fighters are fighting this fire. Hundreds of engines are in the fight. Sixteen helicopters are at work along with multiple tankers. The area is experiencing winds as high as 40 mph today along with heat and low humidity. No rain in sight. The fire continues to move north west and south west. Fire fighters have deployed feller bunchers to cut a perimeter though the timber. They are also using a river and a road to form a perimeter, though part of the fire jumped the river. One civilian has been killed. 

Still progress has been made. The fire was 45% contained as of last night. The perimeter near the city of Fort Collins is holding and fire fighters expect to hold their gains despite the winds. More than 500 homes have been saved. 

For those of you who think this thread doesn't belong here, I beg to differ. Its not that we like fire. Its that this is an emotional time.


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## digilux (Mar 23, 2007)

here is a headline from one of the major newspapers in Norway today
Google Translate


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## MTBNate (Apr 6, 2004)

So far this year, fires in New Mexico have burned nearly 400,000 acres and we've lost 254 homes.

And the fire season is about half way thru.


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## IndecentExposure (Sep 25, 2006)

Thank you all for your passion and support for our area. I've been involved with a wildfire being within 100s of feet of my house, and my sympathy goes out to those that are now going through the same experience. If trails are destroyed, we will rebuild.


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## SDD74 (Jun 22, 2012)

I just came back from Montrose Co. a couple weeks ago. I heard about the fires on the way home. Its sad to see such a beautiful state up in flames. My heart goes out to the people of Colorado.


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

Holmes said:


> Lots of current information about the fire here - http://forums.mtbr.com/colorado-front-range/high-park-fire-794185-3.html. Not a good scene at all.


THE fire, huh? That's a pretty myopic view. There are 8 active fires listed in Colorado right now. Of those 8, some are contained.

High Park is, no doubt, a major fire (the most destructive in CO history, in terms of $$; but not the largest), but the Waldo Canyon Fire, for example, is closer to the "Urban Interface", despite it being smaller and (if you can believe the news), the number one priority fire in the country right now. There are two large fires down in the San Juan area, too, with other smaller ones and, sadly, others popping up daily, it seems.

Here's the whole list of CO fires: InciWeb the Incident Information System: Colorado Incidents


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## RIVER29 (Mar 12, 2012)

skiahh said:


> THE fire, huh? That's a pretty myopic view. There are 8 active fires listed in Colorado right now. Of those 8, some are contained.
> 
> High Park is, no doubt, a major fire (the most destructive in CO history, in terms of $$; but not the largest), but the Waldo Canyon Fire, for example, is closer to the "Urban Interface", despite it being smaller and (if you can believe the news), the number one priority fire in the country right now. There are two large fires down in the San Juan area, too, with other smaller ones and, sadly, others popping up daily, it seems.
> 
> Here's the whole list of CO fires: InciWeb the Incident Information System: Colorado Incidents


In holmes' defense that comment was made 2 weeks ago when that WAS one of the only fires burning in CO


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Yes, Fires popping up everywhere. We are headed to and through SW Colo. this Sunday and I'm already keeping a close eye on fires in that area. Shooting for Hermosa Creek on Tuesday & that area is OK so far, according to the San Juan Public Lands Center in Durango. The fires going on right now (Stateline, Weber) are at lower elevations, mostly p-j and Ponderosa, & there is minor potential for some highways leading to Durango from the south to be blocked; I'm sure forest closures can't be far behind. 
Compassion to all those affected by fires and for the wildlife large and small, who have nowhere to turn when the flames come.


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

RIVER29 said:


> In holmes' defense that comment was made 2 weeks ago when that WAS one of the only fires burning in CO


D'oh!! Apologies to holmes. I hadn't seen this thread before and didn't check dates! Yes, you are right; two weeks ago, there was pretty much High Park and Little Sand. Amazing how much it's changed in 2 weeks!


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## GPRider08 (Aug 22, 2008)

My thoughts go out to you all in NM and CO. I can't imagine hour terrifying it is to see something like that bearing down on you, knowing it could eventually consume nearly all you have.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

It's a rough old time with hurricane conditions and flooding in Florida and this in Co. Fires are really frightening and unpredictable. They might be part of the cycle of life for the bush, but humans and fires are just a tragic mix. Fingers crossed for low temps and unseasonal rain.


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## schnauzers (Oct 3, 2005)

*Another one! *

We had another fire start this afternoon from a lightening strike. This one was near one of the parks I volunteer patrol at. That park (Walker Ranch) is now closed. I did a patrol tonight at Marshall Mesa, which is the next valley over. Very sad and fascinating at the same time. I have friends who live close by and he couldn't ride tonight, because he had to take pictures of his possessions for insurance purposes. My thoughts are with him and everyone else.

Here's some pics (only had the iPhone with me):

1. From the parking lot.
2. C-130 tanker returning from a drop. The airport is just a few miles from this fire. They are massive tanker planes!
3. About as close as I will get.
4. A thunderstorm forms in the distance. It rained everywhere, except on the fire.
5. Fire breaks the ridge.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

This afternoon from my office up on a hill near Golden, CO. I watched a storm pass over Boulder. We saw several lighting strikes and within an hour saw smoke billowing from the area above Boulder. Now at home south east of Boulder I can see tankers doing laps above the fire. Due to the proximity to the City of Boulder this fire is getting type 1 attention. We need rain desperately but now its so dry that lightening poses a threat.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Spent a few years fighting wildfires so here goes. 

You can thank the Klintons and the Road less initiative for making it easy for fires to spread and costing the tax payers extra cash in cutting fire line that later needs to be reclaimed. The roads once were firebreaks, now? grown over and well, there ya go.

Let burn policy is another wonderful genius Idea gone wrong, yea, let us destroy our natural recourse, then scramble to control the fire when a big wind comes up.

fires rarely faught at night anymore, which is the best time do to high humidity, lower temperatures and ease in seeing the fire.

And last in part our own fault, we simply use to much water as a nation  so less water means the foliage dries quicker.........


Do your part, keep your grass mowed short, shrubbery away from buildings, old out buildings like say barns ect catch fire easy do to old wood ready to go, they are also one of the main causes of why a main structure will catch fire.

Do not mess around a fire, they can travel far far faster than you can run/ride nothing to play with on any level.

After a fire has went thru an area WATCH THE ROADS, root structure can be compromised and banks can give way under weight.

Burnt trees become a crazy hazard a year after the fire goes thru, the wind blows and PLOOP, down they will go.


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

The Waldo Canyon fire just outside of Colorado Springs and Manitou Springs is becoming a seriously big problem. Some subdivisions in those towns are being evacuated. This one could get real bad too

This is a viral pic going around from Colorado Springs









Also here is a good fire tracking website
GeoMAC Viewer


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

jmmorath said:


> The Waldo Canyon fire just outside of Colorado Springs and Manitou Springs is becoming a seriously big problem. Some subdivisions in those towns are being evacuated. This one could get real bad too


Yup. Getting worse.

Subdivision on fire


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## Largextracheese (Feb 4, 2004)

Best of luck to all of you. Been through some nasty fires here in Washington as well. It's sad to see.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

I somewhat agree with you regarding the roadless initiative. However, criss crossing the wilderness with roads would not prevent forest fires. What would help, in my opinion, is if the forest service engaged in wide spread mechanical thinning of forests in the Western US. After nearly a century of totally suppressing all fires, the western forests are unnaturally thick and need to be thinned. However, letting fires burn with homes and towns nearby is not practical. As a result, expensive and labor intensive mechanical thinning is needed.

In my opinion human water consumption doesn't affect forest fires in the Western US in the manner you insinuate. Rivers and creeks wet a very small portion of land. A river could be flush with snow run off and a short distance away, due to dry weather, the forest could be parched and ready to burn. In Colorado reservoirs constructed to capture water for human consumption actually allows fire fighting helicopters to load up on water. However, fire retardant plays a very significant role in fire fighting.

The main problems are homes being being built in the wilderness-urban interface forcing a need to fight fires, irresponsible use of flames by humans, and an unnaturally thick forest. Water consumption is not the problem in my opinion.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> I somewhat agree with you regarding the roadless initiative. However, criss crossing the wilderness with roads would not prevent forest fires. What would help, in my opinion, is if the forest service engaged in wide spread mechanical thinning of forests in the Western US. After nearly a century of totally suppressing all fires, the western forests are unnaturally thick and need to be thinned. However, letting fires burn with homes and towns nearby is not practical. As a result, expensive and labor intensive mechanical thinning is needed.
> 
> In my opinion human water consumption doesn't affect forest fires in the Western US in the manner you insinuate. Rivers and creeks wet a very small portion of land. A river could be flush with snow run off and a short distance away, due to dry weather, the forest could be parched and ready to burn. In Colorado reservoirs constructed to capture water for human consumption actually allows fire fighting helicopters to load up on water. However, fire retardant plays a very significant role in fire fighting.
> 
> The main problems are homes being being built in the wilderness-urban interface forcing a need to fight fires, irresponsible use of flames by humans, and an unnaturally thick forest. Water consumption is not the problem in my opinion.


I agree on thinning, we should be using a wonderful renewable energy source, and your point on it is not practical for let burn is spot on as well.

Second part I disagree with, we suck water like crazy out of the aquifer and of course off the rivers themselves, now we do need it in many areas, agricultural, powering/cooling various industries, but our personal uses have to change.

yes homes being built in rural areas have created a problem as well.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

From San Diego here... Looks familiar Crossing fingers for you all out there in CO.


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## 2ridealot (Jun 15, 2004)

My thoughts and prayers are with those fighting or dealing with the wildfires in CO and the rest of the southwest. My wife and I just got back from vacation to that area for the first time. You could tell then (end of May thru mid June) that the drought was serious and I feared the current situation might happen.
We lived through a similar situation about 15 years ago and I remember what a helpless feeling we experienced during the worst. 

Hang in there, hopefully some lightning free rain moves in soon!


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## MTBNate (Apr 6, 2004)

Damn...

Both Colorado Springs and Boulder are in the crosshairs.


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## 2000Z3M (Aug 14, 2006)

Just hear the AFA was on fire, any info?


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

You can follow them here http://www.inciweb.org/state/6/

If you click on the fire in question it will tell you what resources have been dispatched.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

2000Z3M said:


> Just hear the AFA was on fire, any info?


Word is a corner of the land which is technically AFA is on fire. I haven't heard of any AFA structures burning. The Boulder fire has not burned any structures. From what I can see from my office it is, however, coming down the east side of the foot hill which had separated it from the city of Boulder. The Waldo fire in Colorado Springs is much more threatening and is the priority. The High Park fire outside of Fort Collins has been stabilized. They are sending resources south to Colorado Springs.

We need the rain but now that it is so dry, when storms pass through lightening is a very real threat. We've been getting little rain but plenty of dry lightening.


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## digilux (Mar 23, 2007)

Images from a Norwegian newspaper tonight. This is worse than I thought it was. I feel so sorry for all the people losing their homes.


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## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

Blurr said:


> Spent a few years fighting wildfires so here goes.
> 
> You can thank the Klintons and the Road less initiative for making it easy for fires to spread and costing the tax payers extra cash in cutting fire line that later needs to be reclaimed. The roads once were firebreaks, now? grown over and well, there ya go.
> 
> ...


Blame Clinton, huh? Nice inventive spin.


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## Andy Pancroft (Aug 3, 2011)

Over the weeks, little over 200 homes in Hyde Park fire. In one night, over 300 in Waldo Canyon in C. Springs!!!


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

xcguy said:


> Blame Clinton, huh? Nice inventive spin.


Uhm the above I posted would be exactly why we have more problems controlling fires, sorry man, I spent years as a wildland firefighter I have a pretty good clue whats going on. 
Roads which previously acted as a fireline have since been closed off and grown over, now you need to again spend extra money and time to go and cut in new fire lines, further extending resources and costing money that we no longer have.
The reduction in logging has increased the fuel amount within the forests creating even a further danger. 
Beetle kill which could have been managed via logging now instead leaves dead standing tree's which are usless and are only adding to the fuel load. 
All the hippy "no logging, no roads, let burn" sound nice, except it does not apply to the real world. 
Now as a civilization many states are suffering, I do not like to see anyone lose a home and their way of life from something that could have been prevented.


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## Anonymous (Mar 3, 2005)

Put a salty tear in my eye


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

The fire outside of Boulder appears to be almost contained. There is very little smoke from that area. Reports indicate the fire outside of Fort Collins is also almost contained. However, the fire outside of Colorado Springs is devastating the area.

Stories are beginning to surface indicating possible arson as the cause of the Colorado Springs Waldo fire. I've read that preceding the fire there were numerous reports of fires throughout western Colo Springs. The story is these fires were extinguished before they grew. According to the stories because several of the fires were reported simultaneously in locations distant from each other, talk is there is a group of arsonists. From what I can tell this is all rumors at this point. However, there are official reports that the FBI is involved.

Aerial Photos of Waldo Canyon Fire in Colorado SpringsPlog Photo Blog


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## fenderltd (Jun 26, 2012)

These fires are horrible. So many people are losing so much.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> The fire outside of Boulder appears to be almost contained. There is very little smoke from that area. Reports indicate the fire outside of Fort Collins is also almost contained. However, the fire outside of Colorado Springs is devastating the area.
> 
> Stories are beginning to surface indicating possible arson as the cause of the Colorado Springs Waldo fire. I've read that preceding the fire there were numerous reports of fires throughout western Colo Springs. The story is these fires were extinguished before they grew. According to the stories because several of the fires were reported simultaneously in locations distant from each other, talk is there is a group of arsonists. From what I can tell this is all rumors at this point. However, there are official reports that the FBI is involved.
> 
> Aerial Photos of Waldo Canyon Fire in Colorado SpringsPlog Photo Blog


about 6 years ago we had fires spread along the interstate here, it was horrid and they were convinced it was arson, the official explanation ended up being safety chains dragging and sparks causing the fires. *shrug* I suppose its possible .
Lets hope its not arson, but that has happened in the past


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## StiHacka (Feb 2, 2012)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> Aerial Photos of Waldo Canyon Fire in Colorado SpringsPlog Photo Blog


Thank you for the link, those pictures of devastation are very depressing indeed. It is interesting to see some houses survive amidst the carnation around them.

What exactly is the red substance that the airplanes spread to prevent the fires from spreading? How bad is it if they dump it on your yard?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

StiHacka said:


> Thank you for the link, those pictures of devastation are very depressing indeed. It is interesting to see some houses survive amidst the carnation around them.
> 
> What exactly is the red substance that the airplanes spread to prevent the fires from spreading? How bad is it if they dump it on your yard?


It is actually good for your yard.

What is the red fire retardant that is used to put out wildfires made of


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

StiHacka said:


> Thank you for the link, those pictures of devastation are very depressing indeed. It is interesting to see some houses survive amidst the carnation around them.
> 
> What exactly is the red substance that the airplanes spread to prevent the fires from spreading? How bad is it if they dump it on your yard?


Fire retardant it is used to smother the fire and sometimes dumped in front to help slow flames. 
It is very heavy and if you are so unlucky as to be in its path it will knock you to the ground.

It is Debated on its Toxicity. 
Debate over fire retardant toxicity rages in West | SummitDaily.com


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## StiHacka (Feb 2, 2012)

AZ.MTNS said:


> What is the red fire retardant that is used to put out wildfires made of


Thank you AZ. Living on the right coast has its benefits such as blissful ignorance about wildfire retardants.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

My office is up on a hill near Golden, Colorado. I have a great view of the Front Range foot hills from Golden to north of Boulder. Periodically we'll see the air around The Flat Irons (steep foot hills above Boulder) turn red. What we are seeing when this happens are the planes spreading fire retardant. Its weird because at this distance you usually can't see the plane itself. You just see the sky suddenly turn red and then the red cloud drops to the ground.

The fire above Boulder is not 100% contained and it is not technically under control. Those are very specific terms used in very specific ways to describe the status of a forest fire. However, the fire near Boulder appears to be mostly contained. Pre-evac orders have been lifted for south west Boulder. The main focus of our fire fighting capacity, thoughts, and prayers is Colorado Springs.

More photos of Colo Springs.

Colorado Wildfire Photos: The Waldo Canyon Fire in Colorado SpringsPlog Photo Blog


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

The pics are eerily reminiscent of the Wallow fire we had here 10 years ago, our hearts go out to all of you. God bless and good luck.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Incredible and haunting pictures. That Colorado Springs fire is scary. 30,000 homes evacuated?! Is that what I heard? How many lost so far?

My brother and his family live in Colorado Springs but for now are safe living on the opposite side of the freeway from the fires.... but who knows?

Our prayers are with them and for everyone in harms way (Homeowners, volunteers, and firefighters).


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## RIVER29 (Mar 12, 2012)

KRob said:


> Incredible and tragic pictures. That Colorado Springs fire is scary. 30,000 homes evacuated? Is that what I heard? How many lost so far?
> 
> My brother and his family live in Colorado Springs but for now are safe living on the opposite side of the freeway from the fires.... but who knows?
> 
> Our prayers are with them and for everyone in harms way (Homeowners, volunteers, and firefighters).


Most recent count they said that 346 homes have been lost :sad:


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

I hope insurance pays and doesnt scam people like Katrina and other major disasters.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

Its windy now on the Front Range. We had a storm blow through the Boulder area. This caused one of the helicopters to leave the fire near Boulder for Colorado Springs and fly over my office.

Hopefully the wind doesn't cause the Waldo Canyon fire to make a run. Last I heard they are at 10% containment. That means they have a perimeter around roughly 10% of the fire. However, that doesn't guarantee the perimeter will hold. Its like a military campaign with battles which are won and lost. The enemy may try to breach your perimeter or, depending on conditions, it may make a run in another area. Some parts of the perimeters hold, some don't. In the wooded areas they may not be able to put the fire out per se. They may not even try because its not plausible. Instead they will try to contain it by laying down retardant in areas they believe it will try to spread to or clearing the area ahead of the attacking fire of fuel. Some times, that means actually setting their own fire in front of the main fire.

If you're at all interested in how forest fires behave and are fought I highly recommend this book.

Amazon.com: Young Men and Fire (9780226500621): Norman Maclean: Books


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Or for free you can look at the book we are all issued 

http://www.wildfirelessons.net/documents/nfes1077.pdf


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## IndecentExposure (Sep 25, 2006)

Blurr said:


> I hope insurance pays and doesnt scam people like Katrina and other major disasters.


And I hope they don't jack up rates afterwards.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

KRob said:


> Incredible and haunting pictures. That Colorado Springs fire is scary. 30,000 homes evacuated?! Is that what I heard? How many lost so far?
> My brother and his family live in Colorado Springs but for now are safe living on the opposite side of the freeway from the fires.... but who knows?
> Our prayers are with them and for everyone in harms way (Homeowners, volunteers, and firefighters).


Just found out that my cousin's daughter & grandkids, 2 dogs, 4 cats and parrot have evacuated from Manitou Springs and are now staying in the cousin's apt. on the east side of Colorado Springs. Just grateful that they are safe for now.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

Blurr said:


> Or for free you can look at the book we are all issued
> 
> http://www.wildfirelessons.net/documents/nfes1077.pdf


Thanks. I'll definitely check it out.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Its pretty interesting and damn near a bible for those in the trade with some good tips that can benefit someone in a high risk area.

Glad to see you are taking a interest in this in all honesty.



> And I hope they don't jack up rates afterwards.


 +1


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

My interest comes from an appreciation for what fire fighters are trying to achieve, a desire to understand events around me, and a desire to make informed choices if I am ever in a forest fire situation. 

Here is a map of the fire's progression. You can see that it grew at an astounding rate on Tuesday. Could this fire have been slowed more in its early stages? It took too long to get the C-130s in the air. Over the years the air tanker fleet has been allowed to diminish and recently that trend accelerated. Hopefully policies can be changed to improve our capacity to fight fires like this from the air.

Rumors are that several obviously intentional fires in Colorado Springs preceded the Waldo Canyon fire. The FBI is now involved. Authorities are saying that if someone intentionally set this fire it will be treated as an act of terrorism. There is now one confirmed fatality and possibly two in the Waldo Canyon fire. If arson was the cause, they are looking at terrorism charges involving murder.


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## FerrouSS (Oct 24, 2007)

As a front range resident ... I have learned to document everything more carefully and be ready with essentials to vacate quickly. We had a fire in Evergreen last year and it was 3 miles from my home and it is a very uncomfortable feeling knowing that you could lose everything so quickly. Many thanks go out to the firefighters and volunteers that do so much to help those in need. Containment is the key.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Contracts with the forest service regarding fires have became very difficult and forced away many of your private contractors away. 
Many Policies are weird, lets say you have a hotshot crew from Northern MT working in Colorado, they can work for 14 days straight, then they must return to place of origin for a rest before returning to the fire. So they have to go back to Northern MT in order to take a rest, costing more travel time and taking away much needed resources for the fire.
Nobody seems to know why they cannot just rest at a local hotel or something, but those are the rules and off they go.
The fires would not have spread so quickly if we had roads, IM sorry it is just how it is. they probably would have continued to spread but it would have undoubtedly slowed them.
You will see after so many houses lost multiple law suits and more policy changes.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Sometimes those in charge are unable to go away from the "rules" and thus creates more problems, a year before I got into contracting for fires we had one threatening our town. 
The news was going off about how badly they needed equipment and people, friends called me up said they had their four wheelers and pickups contracted out.
So I made some calls and contacted the Person in charge, I offered the services of my D3 dozer, Backhoe, and tank truck, He told me exactly "what am I supposed to do with those?" I was gobsmacked.
Since then I have found out they are un interested in equipment which is not of a certain size dimension, so by their standards my D3 dozer needed to be a D8. Fair enough for formal fire line cutting in ideal circumstances, but in a pinch, you need to use what you ahve and a D3 can push over the vast majority of your mature trees with ease, as can a backhoe. 
I have also seen Dozers sit thru entire fires on a Lowboy. New contracts require the equipment and trailer to be listed individually. So J logging out of boulder with a dozer has to wait for L construction out of Denver to show up with a trailer.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Crazy fire...geez. Reminds me a bit of what we went through in Southern California not too long ago.

Obama is going to do his Air Force One flyover today though... He plans to sprinkle his presidential magical pixy dust on everything to make it all better.

I don't get the presidential flyover. Costs too much. I am pretty sure the pres can get his hands on plenty of material documenting the severity of the fires.

Rep or Dem..doesn't matter. It is a waste of money imo. Perhaps he is on his way somewhere else and is just passing over. In that case, I guess it wouldn't be so bad.

PR I guess...

Anyhow, my thoughts are with those in danger out in CO.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

rydbyk said:


> Crazy fire...geez. Reminds me a bit of what we went through in Southern California not too long ago.
> 
> Obama is going to do his Air Force One flyover today though... He plans to sprinkle his presidential magical pixy dust on everything to make it all better.
> 
> ...


Not only that but all planes will be grounded while he sprinkles his pixie dust, how horrible for those desperate to gain control of these fires to save their homes.


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## srescigno73 (Oct 3, 2005)

You guys are not using MTBR right!!! I'm telling Mom


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Taking a positive view of the President's visit to the scene...If first hand experience with the disaster enables more short-term or long-term resources for fire mitigation, fire fighting, disaster planning, community rebuilding, etc, then a short break/inconvenience during the fight may well be worth it.


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## GiantMountainTroll (Mar 27, 2012)

The fires in Colorado are a heartbreaker. Such a beautiful, scenic state being destroyed.. I pray that it all stops soon! I was planning on spending my vacation time this winter up there.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

Here's a time lapse video of the Flagstaff fire above Boulder. This was a scary fire due to its proximity to Boulder. However, fire fighters reacted quickly and believe the threat to Boulder has subsided. I had been watching this fire for several days from my office near Golden to the south east of Boulder. This is not the view from my office. This view is much closer from within Boulder.






Boulder's Flagstaff Fire - Timelapse from Dustin Henderlong on Vimeo.


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## Jimbo Jambo (Jun 14, 2012)

GiantMountainTroll said:


> The fires in Colorado are a heartbreaker. Such a beautiful, scenic state being destroyed.. I pray that it all stops soon! I was planning on spending my vacation time this winter up there.


It is horrible but you have to remember that less than 1% of Colorado currently has fires. Yes lots of people are effected but there is still plenty to do out here and no reason to change plans on visiting. I live in the Front Range Foothills and haven't even had one smokey day at out house yet, I feel lucky but it's not like the entire place is up in flames. Best wishes to all effected though, my heart is with you all.


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## Hard Licks (Apr 19, 2012)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> Rumors are that several obviously intentional fires in Colorado Springs preceded the Waldo Canyon fire. The FBI is now involved. Authorities are saying that if someone intentionally set this fire it will be treated as an act of terrorism.


Not surprising that would be a focus of the investigation. Many of the homes burned were U.S. Air Force and other military related families. It's probable some close friends of ours, a retired USAF Colonel and his wife lost their home in the Colorado Springs fire. They also have a home in Estes Park where early this week 22 homes were burned in their subdivision. Their house was spared, one block from the burn.

We spent 3 hours this morning with our insurance agent to increase coverage on our mountain homes in NW Boulder County, surrounded by forest. Most homes in the mountains are under insured. In the Four Mile Fire two years ago, 168 homes were lost, only 44 building permits have been issued and only 22 home rebuilt.

Here in Western CO a fire is raging into Debeque Canyon, going from 100 acres to 17,000 acres in one day. Our air is smoky, outside and inside the house. If the fire crosses the Colorado River and I-70, chances are it could take out high transmission power lines and cut off power to the entire Grand Valley for a week or more.

From our house shortly after the fire started:


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## jermbob (Jun 29, 2012)

We have had rain the last 3 night in a row up here and the trails are finally tacky. Was getting pretty old pedaling through the dust and sand.


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## jermbob (Jun 29, 2012)

Its also part of nature and our forest are in bad shape because we have been suppressing fire the last 100 years. Don't get me wrong its really sad t see folks those their homes but something has got to give.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

Its time for mechanical thinning of the forests. Its not practical to let fires burn near civilization. All those unemployed people could be put to work thinning the forests like the public works projects during The Great Depression. However, most of today's people aren't willing to engage in such hard labor like earlier generations did such as when the Hoover Dam was built.


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

I was evacuated Tuesday night. The fire came within a quarter mile, probably a lot less, of my house. Centennial, a 4 lane, divided street worked well as a fire break, but that's still close. Being so close to Mountain Shadows, I suspect we'll be some of the last ones let back in. Fortunately, I have family up in Castle Rock to stay with. And, of course, I got my bikes out along with that "other" important stuff! 



2wheelsnotfour said:


> It took too long to get the C-130s in the air.


Now what makes you say that? The media that's been spouting that nonsense? People saying that? They had heavy air tankers from day 1 dropping retardant. Those heavy tankers have a 2000 gallon capacity and can put down a lot of retardant. When the IC asked for more - and he HAS to ask for more before any are allocated - he got them. Period. On top of that, all civilian resources have to be tied up before they can bring in military assets. That's the law. It's not like the C-130 squadron commander can just load up his planes and show up overhead and radio down, "where do you want me?"

You're 100% wrong in spreading this false assertion that not having the C-130s made the fire worse or prevented it from getting better quicker or that not having them in any way contributed to Tuesday night's fire storm. They're reassuring to see and certainly add capability to the arsenal, but they are not the be all and end all of heavy tankers of wildland firefighting; they're just another tool in the IC's kit.



2wheelsnotfour said:


> Rumors are that several obviously intentional fires in Colorado Springs preceded the Waldo Canyon fire. The FBI is now involved. Authorities are saying that if someone intentionally set this fire it will be treated as an act of terrorism. There is now one confirmed fatality and possibly two in the Waldo Canyon fire. If arson was the cause, they are looking at terrorism charges involving murder.


Rumors. Yes, the FBI is involved. We all suspect, based on the reports of the days leading up to the fire that it's an arsonist (including me), but it is still only rumor and speculation. As for terrorism, I've watched every brief and have not heard one word about terrorism from any official involved with this fire. I've heard the conspiracy theorists say Al-Qaida or another terrorist organization did it, but c'mon, really? If arson is the cause, they'll face arson and murder charges. Not terrorism.

If I'm wrong, please provide a link... and not to a conspiracy website.



IndecentExposure said:


> And I hope they don't jack up rates afterwards.


They will. They now have documented higher risks and, of course, coffers to refill. Or they will.



rydbyk said:


> Obama is going to do his Air Force One flyover today though... He plans to sprinkle his presidential magical pixy dust on everything to make it all better.


I didn't think there was ever a plan for a flyover. He was going to come in and tour the area by ground (which he did, according to the new footage I saw).



Blurr said:


> Not only that but all planes will be grounded while he sprinkles his pixie dust, how horrible for those desperate to gain control of these fires to save their homes.


Do you have any idea how air control works? No, the planes and helos won't be grounded despite the TFR. Other planes will be grounded, but not the firefighting aircraft. They'll be identified and cleared into their areas just like always, though they will be watched closer.

Now, if he COULD spread magic pixie dust from AF-1, then I'd be happy to see the tankers grounded!!


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

What day did the C-130s show up? My understanding is they showed up Monday. When was the fire first reported? My understanding is it was two days prior. I am fully aware of the rule and bureaucracy which requires that all contracted resources be in use before the military can be employed in fire fighting. What I am saying is that due to those rules and red tap, the tankers could have been employed even faster. You seem to indicate that they have laid down a lot of retardant. I assume you acknowledge the utility of that retardant. What I am suggestion is it would have been beneficial to have had those planes a couple days earlier. Since you clearly believe I am attacking the current administration, of which you appear to be a major supporter, if you read my posts you will see that I say the dwindling of the tanker fleet has been going on for many years. Meaning multiple administrations. However, the reality is, from what I have read, that trend was recently been accelerated.

Regarding the terrorism comment; I said that I heard that the authorities said that any arsonist responsible for this fire would be treated as a domestic terrorist. I mentioned nothing about Al Qaeda. I also clearly stated these were rumors.

ABC News misrepresented cause of Waldo Canyon fire in Colorado : Fire Andrea Mitchell!

"The cause of this fire is not yet known. Speaking hypothetically, Undersheriff Presley stated IF this were an act of arson and the suspect's intent were to burn the forest and set fire to Colorado Springs, then it could be considered an act of domestic terrorism. She reiterated that we do not yet know the cause and whether or not it was accidental or intentional."

I understand this is a very stressful and emotional time for Colorado Springs residents such as yourself and my heart goes out to all of you. However, in my opinion there is significant room for improvement in this nation's fire fighting policies and monetary policies which affect our ability to fight fires. When the special forces go through an operation, they perform an analysis to figure out how they can improve. The events leading up to this tragedy and our response to it should be analyzed similarly and a public critic of the response is reasonable.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

skiahh said:


> I was evacuated Tuesday night. The fire came within a quarter mile, probably a lot less, of my house. Centennial, a 4 lane, divided street worked well as a fire break, but that's still close. Being so close to Mountain Shadows, I suspect we'll be some of the last ones let back in. Fortunately, I have family up in Castle Rock to stay with. And, of course, I got my bikes out along with that "other" important stuff!
> 
> Now what makes you say that? The media that's been spouting that nonsense? People saying that? They had heavy air tankers from day 1 dropping retardant. Those heavy tankers have a 2000 gallon capacity and can put down a lot of retardant. When the IC asked for more - and he HAS to ask for more before any are allocated - he got them. Period. On top of that, all civilian resources have to be tied up before they can bring in military assets. That's the law. It's not like the C-130 squadron commander can just load up his planes and show up overhead and radio down, "where do you want me?"
> 
> ...


You probably should read I fought fires for nearly a decade. 
When the president goes thru everything shuts down as security precedent, Im happy you think highly of the Messiah, but reality always trumps belief.


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> What day did the C-130s show up? My understanding is they showed up Monday. When was the fire first reported? My understanding is it was two days prior. I am fully aware of the rule and bureaucracy which requires that all contracted resources be in use before the military can be employed in fire fighting. What I am saying is that due to those rules and red tap, the tankers could have been employed even faster. You seem to indicate that they have laid down a lot of retardant. I assume you acknowledge the utility of that retardant. What I am suggestion is it would have been beneficial to have ad those planes a couple days earlier. Since you clearly believe I am attacking the current administration, of which you appear to be a major supporter, if you read my posts you will see that I say the dwindling of the tanker fleet has been going on for many years. Meaning multiple administrations. However, the reality is, from what I have read, that trend was recently been accelerated.
> 
> Regarding the terrorism comment; I said that I heard that the authorities said that any arsonist responsible for this fire would be treated as a domestic terrorist. I mentioned nothing about Al Qaeda. I also clearly stated these were rumors.
> 
> ...


Wow, I'm not sure how you read from my post that I was an administration supporter or that anything I said construed support or disagreement with any administration; current or past. You're reaching again, just like in your post; making declarations based on the previously mentioned pixie dust.

As for the quote, that was an Undersherrif speculating. Giving her opinion which was taken out of context by the media, of course. But her thought that this might be a domestic terrorist act doesn't make it an official statement. That would be up to a prosecutor... and a federal one at that, most likely. So, no, "authorities" are not saying it will be treated as terrorism.

As for bringing the MAFFS online, yes, they came Monday. The fire was reported around noon on Saturday. Air attacks began almost immediately. Are you an IMT Incident Commander? You are suggesting that having the C-130s sooner would have been beneficial. Why don't you trot on down there and take over command of the incident, then. You seem to know better than both the initial IC and the current, Type 1 certified IC.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

Are you an incident commander? That goes both ways. Yes, it is my opinion that more planes would have helped. More fire fighters, more planes, quicker. The more the better. Reaching? I'm not sure why you're picking a fight and yes, its pretty easy to gather from your posts that you seem upset at the critique of how this fire was handled and it sure seems like you are a supporter of the current administration and something struck a nerve with you in that area.

Why not be constructive and offer some ideas on how you think things could have been handled better? Or do you think there is zero room for improvement?


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

Blurr said:


> You probably should read I fought fires for nearly a decade.
> When the president goes thru everything shuts down as security precedent, Im happy you think highly of the Messiah, but reality always trumps belief.


Yes, you fought fires for 10 years. What experience do you have in aviation? Were you an IMT aviation specialist or IC? Have you ever worked in an aviation environment? I'm not being facetious; I'm asking your experience in this area to help gauge your knowledge in the area of TFR administration. As for me, I worked in the NORAD command center.

On top of that, the IC today even specifically said that the planes would not be grounded and would be flying as required at the morning brief.

Do you think all law enforcement and medical aircraft, for example, are grounded at events like the RNC/DNC? Or in NYC if the President visits? Think again.

Don't glom onto the WAGs of 2wheels and make assumptions about what I think of the current President.

Reality always trumps fantasy, too.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

So if you have relevant experience and credentials why come in here and start picking fights? Why not say, "Hey guys, I understand you have your theories and opinions but I think I can add some context to the situation. I have 'such and such experience.' This is what I think........"

Instead you come on here and start a fight which was totally unnecessary even if you are a supporter of the current administration. Common man. We are in here trying to make sense of a horrible situation where the state many of us love is suffering. A discussion where people disagree can be constructive and informative.


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> Are you an incident commander? That goes both ways. Yes, it is my opinion that more planes would have helped. More fire fighters, more planes, quicker. The more the better. Reaching? I'm not sure why you're picking a fight and yes, its pretty easy to gather from your posts that you seem upset at the critique of how this fire was handled and it sure seems like you are a supporter of the current administration and something struck a nerve with you in that area.
> 
> Why not be constructive and offer some ideas on how you think things could have been handled better? Or do you think there is zero room for improvement?


There's always room for improvement. Does declaring as fact that having the C-130s earlier would have made this better add to the discussion? Nope, it's parroting the media and other speculators.

Am I an IC? Nope, but I do have ICS training. And have experience in aviation and training on the MAFFS, too (see previous post).

I'm not upset that anyone is critiquing how this fire is being fought (well, OK, that's not completely true; a friend told me today there's already a group of people putting together a lawsuit against the CSFD; that's just asinine in my opinion). Critique away... but bring relevant critiques to the fray. Making statements that imply those MAFFS would have made this all better isn't a good critique. And, as with any resource, it takes time to get them. Let's say the IC identified the need for more tankers by Saturday evening. And let's say, for argument's sake that there were 10 heavy tankers sitting at Pete of any flavor. That request would have to be coordinated through NIFC and resources assigned. They may not have been available until Monday anyway. It's possible they could have been there Sunday... and some were. The C-130s do take some more time because of the federal/state requirements, but also keep in mind that IMTs do not request C-130s... the request "heavy air tankers" and NIFC apportions resources.

The bottom line is that focusing on a specific platform as a critique isn't really a valid critique because the system doesn't work that way (as Blurr knows, right?)

Now, if you were to say they should have had more heavy tankers earlier? Then I probably wouldn't have commented on your post at all. See the difference?

I still don't see how my support or disagreement of how an IMT handles a fire incident implies in any way support or disagreement with the President. I certainly didn't get from your post that you're an Obama hater, nor did I get that from Blurr's posts (I did get it from the snide comments you made about your assumption of my side of the aisle, though. And I'm not going to say whether your're right or wrong, either).


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> So if you have relevant experience and credentials why come in here and start picking fights? Why not say, "Hey guys, I understand you have your theories and opinions but I think I can add some context to the situation. I have 'such and such experience.' This is what I think........"
> 
> Instead you come on here and start a fight which was totally unnecessary even if you are a supporter of the current administration. Common man. We are in here trying to make sense of a horrible situation where the state many of us love is suffering. A discussion where people disagree can be constructive and informative.


Wow, really? I picked a fight? I said you were wrong, that's all (unless saying someone is wrong is picking a fight... and in that case, I guess I'm out of touch with the current rules of picking fights!). And I explained why I said that.

I would say you picked the fight by making assumptions and trying to flame me for what you perceive as my political leanings. And you're still trying to bring that in to defend yourself.

Yes, a discussion where we can disagree and provide different information is constructive... but apparently that only applies to you?


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

skiahh said:


> Yes, you fought fires for 10 years. What experience do you have in aviation? Were you an IMT aviation specialist or IC? Have you ever worked in an aviation environment? I'm not being facetious; I'm asking your experience in this area to help gauge your knowledge in the area of TFR administration. As for me, I worked in the NORAD command center.
> 
> On top of that, the IC today even specifically said that the planes would not be grounded and would be flying as required at the morning brief.
> 
> ...


yes he trusts everyone 
Secret Services confiscates cutlery at Obama event - POLITICO.com

Totally unrelated though, this is interesting 
Meteor reports ground Colo. firefighting planes - CBS News
Obama shrunk aerial firefighting fleet (poll) | obama, edge, rages - TOWN HALL - Colorado Springs Gazette, CO


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

I'm not sure about blanket thinning and enforcement of labour. Where do you start and stop the process? If areas near someone in authority are cleared and others not then you have scandal and insurance issues. Also I doubt the USFS is going to accept losing half their timber yield in the interest of possible fire risk, especially when in catastrophic fire conditions there is no way to prove thinned forest still won't burn aggressively or disseminate embers to adjacent woodland and housing. 

Sadly there is always going to be a risk living in bushland areas, just as there is in flood and avi zones, drought and tropical cyclone (hurricane) areas. Pressure of population is not free of risk and most of the real risks are not related to infrastructure and planning frustrations. However developers, councils and other government bodies are not the only ones to view these risks through rose coloured glasses. If you choose to live in and near bush, then eventually the risks will catch up. Horrible to hear and see it, but I can't imagine how much worse to be in it.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Thining projects are underway, more likely to follow.

Massive forest thinning project advances


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

skiahh said:


> There's always room for improvement. Does declaring as fact that having the C-130s earlier would have made this better add to the discussion? Nope, it's parroting the media and other speculators.


Did you consider what I said a fact? Most people will assume what I say is my opinion. You should do that as well. I try to make it clear when I am talking about rumors or expressing my opinion. However, I do think it gets a little redundant to preface every sentence with "In my opinion".



skiahh said:


> Am I an IC? Nope, but I do have ICS training. And have experience in aviation and training on the MAFFS, too (see previous post).


Then educate. You come off overly aggressive and that's not constructive. You could say, "I have these credentials and experience. Here is what I think. I can understand why you might have your opinion but here's why I think it needs some adjustment...."



skiahh said:


> I'm not upset that anyone is critiquing how this fire is being fought (well, OK, that's not completely true;


You came off overly aggressive. It seemed you were agitated at the arm-chair fire fighting.



skiahh said:


> Critique away... but bring relevant critiques to the fray.


Are you the sole judge of what is relevant? Unfortunately you are behaving as if you believe you are such a judge. Here's an example.



skiahh said:


> Making statements that imply those MAFFS would have made this all better isn't a good critique.





skiahh said:


> And, as with any resource, it takes time to get them. Let's say the IC identified the need for more tankers by Saturday evening. And let's say, for argument's sake that there were 10 heavy tankers sitting at Pete of any flavor. That request would have to be coordinated through NIFC and resources assigned. They may not have been available until Monday anyway.


So what I am asking is, "Could have some or all of this destruction have been avoided by getting the C-130 tankers in earlier?" I hope this is not considered an invalid question for Coloradoans to ask. I make no assertion as fact that the destruction would have been avoided by getting the tankers in earlier but I continue to wonder if it could have helped to get the C-130 tankers one or two days earlier. There's a difference. I'm not assuming I know the answer to the question. But in my opinion its a question worth asking.



skiahh said:


> The bottom line is that focusing on a specific platform as a critique isn't really a valid critique because the system doesn't work that way (as Blurr knows, right?)


You're judging what are valid questions for the rest of us to ask again.



skiahh said:


> Now, if you were to say they should have had more heavy tankers earlier? Then I probably wouldn't have commented on your post at all. See the difference?


No I don't I don't see how that's different from me asking "What if the C-130 tankers got there earlier?" and I still think that's a valid question for us to ask.



skiahh said:


> I still don't see how my support or disagreement of how an IMT handles a fire incident implies in any way support or disagreement with the President.


I'm not saying I'm right but its was an easy assumption for me to make when you went on the offensive seemingly because I was asking about getting the tankers into action sooner and I had mentioned that the trend of diminishing the fire fighting fleet has accelerated recently. People who are adamant supporters of the current administration won't like such talk. I think its disgusting that the fleet has been allowed to diminish and the blame for that clearly goes to previous and current administrations. However, from what I read a contractual relationship with a major tanker provider was recently ended abruptly and that is particularly disgusting given current events in Colorado Springs.

I still think it would have been more constructive for you to say something like, "Listen, I understand you have your opinions. Here is what I think....." rather then accuse me of spreading miss information. I've tried to be clear when I am talking about rumors and clear when I am expressing opinion. However, I think it does get a little redundant if one has to preface every sentence with "In my opinion".


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Thining projects are underway, more likely to follow.
> 
> Massive forest thinning project advances


Special intrest backdoor deals while the rest of the country got ****ed already.

Over two dozen mills closed in Montana in the past 20 years, guess why? trade agreements with the Kanuks (nothing against them not their fault) meanwhile Americans got nailed in the back door.
THe enviro nazis have been a big part of much of what has happened in this country as well, we see it daily on this board. 
Make no mistake, we are in dire straights, both our economy and of course with fires now being evident to over invasive environmental policies as well as giving away trade policies.

sigh, anyhow 

back to my little world.


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

Why did I know that Blurr would do a tit for tat neg rep? Oh, and be a coward and not sign it?


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

The neg rep wasn't me. I usually don't participate in the rep systems other then giving positive rep if someone says something particularly funny. How are things going with the fire fighting efforts the last couple days? Last I heard they had 10% containment which sounds like positive progress. 

Can someone explain why the fire spread so much on Tuesday? I don't remember if that was a windy day, but perhaps it was wind?


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> How are things going with the fire fighting efforts the last couple days? Last I heard they had 10% containment which sounds like positive progress.
> 
> Can someone explain why the fire spread so much on Tuesday? I don't remember if that was a windy day, but perhaps it was wind?


While I'm not in Colorado currently here in New Mexico we have felt the impact of fire this year already. Most of the land here has been wilderness that is lost which compared to the devastation in Colorado is minimal. I really hope that the fires can be contained soon. Moving forward if the forests can be thinned of all the dead and downed fuel that would be a step in the right direction mitigating future fires. Here in some areas there is fallen trees stacked over 6 foot tall just waiting to become fuel for a fire.

In the end I hope that those impacted by the fire will be able to make a full recovery in the long run. The images of burnt home after home really sends a message.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> The neg rep wasn't me. I usually don't participate in the rep systems other then giving positive rep if someone says something particularly funny. How are things going with the fire fighting efforts the last couple days? Last I heard they had 10% containment which sounds like positive progress.
> 
> Can someone explain why the fire spread so much on Tuesday? I don't remember if that was a windy day, but perhaps it was wind?


A nearby thunderstorm created 65 mph gusting winds from the west which pushed the fire downslope at an insane speed, going through/over multiple containment lines.


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## deanna (Jan 15, 2004)

Blurr said:


> Sometimes those in charge are unable to go away from the "rules" and thus creates more problems, a year before I got into contracting for fires we had one threatening our town.


There's a Despair.com t-shirt that fits this (if they still make it)... Says, "Government: If you think our problems are bad, wait until you see our solutions!"

I work for a company that is contracted through the government for local utilities. Oh the hoops that must be jumped through to get the smallest thing done, and don't get me started on the paperwork...


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## kayman121 (Jun 30, 2012)

Anyone know how exactly the fires started?


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

kayman121 said:


> Anyone know how exactly the fires started?


Not yet

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Ridnparadise said:


> I'm not sure about blanket thinning and enforcement of labour. Where do you start and stop the process? If areas near someone in authority are cleared and others not then you have scandal and insurance issues. Also I doubt the USFS is going to accept losing half their timber yield in the interest of possible fire risk, especially when in catastrophic fire conditions there is no way to prove thinned forest still won't burn aggressively or disseminate embers to adjacent woodland and housing.


 Big money in fighting fires for those involved especially the gov employees working in camp, they get away from home pay, danger pay, overtime pay, and double time pay. 
The guys on the line however get the shaft with your normal pay rates.


> I work for a company that is contracted through the government for local utilities. Oh the hoops that must be jumped through to get the smallest thing done, and don't get me started on the paperwork.


Yup, permits for permits for permits, then nancy who processes the permits is on vacation and for some reason nobody else on the west coast is qualified to sign off on it.



> Why did I know that Blurr would do a tit for tat neg rep? Oh, and be a coward and not sign it?


 Oh please I quoted what you stated in your neg rep to me, its not like you couldnt have figured that out, lol or maybe, back to the discussion at hand..........


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

I had the chance to talk to some folks from Colorado Springs while riding in Buffalo Creek this afternoon. They pretty much confirmed what Skiahh said regarding the swiftness of getting adequate resources devoted to this fire pretty much immediately. They said there were a lot of tankers fighting this fire pretty much immediately and they were confident the response couldn't have been better. Apparently depending on where you get your news, we are getting a different picture down in Denver. A report I heard on the radio this afternoon said they have attained 35% containment today which seems fantastic given events earlier this week. That seems like a lot of containment to achieve so quickly.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

They are not always good at accurately reporting containtment, even on the inci web site you can only consider it somewhat accurate.
Containment will very according to conditions, terrain & weather. 
Hell we got a flash flood one time, so it went from 10 percent to well, you guys go home in the morning lol


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

Here's a time lapse video of the Waldo Canyon fire. I suggest starting at 6:30 which puts you at Tuesday morning right before all hell broke loose due to high winds. Look for the captions at the bottom which will give you an idea what day and time you are watching.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

Colo Springs got a good amount of rain. I believe the fire is 90% contained now. The fire fighters participated in the Colo Springs Forth of July parade. I'm willing to wager they were the guest of honor of the parade. I'm so happy they got some rain. Now we need some rain up north.

Article Page large

Rain helps firefighters at Waldo Canyon fire, now 80 percent contained - The Denver Post


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

MTB Pilot said:


> Why is this posted in the "Passion" section? There is a "General" section or EVEN a "Colorado" section that you could talk about this stuff.
> 
> Some of you have some strange passions!
> 
> ...


Passion for compassion would be one response.

Maybe it will kill off a good percentage of the pine beetles that are no longer killed by cold winters. That we don't have.

From reports is seems that the beetles would have killed it all eventually anyhow so except for the loss of homes and people getting hurt perhaps there will be a good side to this in the end.

I'm not an entomologist, just speculating.


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