# Can ebike weight help it handle better?



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

We all know the handling disadvantages of a 50 lb bike. It pushes in corners, doesn't stop, doesn't pop up and its harder to change direction.

But are there upsides? Those 15+ extra lbs in the bb and downtube seem to help.
- front tire does not slip as much
- bike does not bounce around as much
- bike tracks better and doesn't get deflected by rocks and roots
- helps Plus tires dig in better

Thoughts?


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

Biggest advantage I’ve noticed is the ability to climb with long travel suspension, thus allowing the use of long travel suspensions without a huge penalty in pedaling.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Yeah, given the extra power, you can run big/aggro tires, lots of travel, skip weight weenie parts, etc - all of which will improve handling to some degree. But there's a limit - motorcycles descend worse than mountain bikes on most types of terrain for the same reason e-bikes do - extra weight, longer wheelbase, hard to shift weight/unweight, etc. They make up for it elsewhere, of course, and a good moto rider isn't a lot slower descending singletrack than a good mountain bike rider.

The few times I've ridden an e-bike (Levo) I wasn't super impressed with it descending but you could get used to it with some more saddle time to the point where I don't think it would hold you back anywhere unless you're a very very fast rider. And most of those people probably aren't super interested in e-bikes at this stage. 

You have to remember that 99% of the serious mountain bikers out there can't even do an actual j-hop on flats. People complaining online about bikes not being flickable enough or easy enough to throw around always amuses me - the complainers probably don't have the skill level to do any of that stuff anyway. 

You might not like how the e-bike *feels*, which is legit (it's all about fun, after all). It's probably not slowing you down any, though.

-Walt


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

It seems like the new trend, which is somewhat mirrored in the bike industry is away from + tires for those who like to go fast because of the vaugeness. Unlike the bike industry though, you're seeing a few ebikes like the Tazer, now being offered with 27+ on the rear for increased climbing traction and 29 2.5/2.6" on the front. The new Schwalbe ebike tires are set up for that as well.

I haven't spent enough time on emtbs or collect data to say which is faster, but I'm in agreement with Walt. Given some saddle time, I think you'd just ride them slightly differently, but just as fast or as slow as before. Like any other bike.


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

I saw the scrawniest little kid you can imagine on a carbon Levo. The extra weight and big tires would help tremendously in that situation. On the other end of the scale, I really like 3.0 tires on my Levo. The larger volume tires really help with rock dings and pinch flats on the rim. The big bike and tires allow the rider to essentially plow through a downhill rock garden instead of being more careful at picking a line. Climbing on loose gravel is also much improved. I personally like the heavy feel although when the battery dies, my Levo is almost impossible to get rolling. My 3.0s are tubeless, so the tire repair essentials that I carry are quite heavy. Tire irons, lot's of Co2, plugs, and a spare tube. If you ever tried to air up a 3.0 tire by hand pump, forget it. Not going to happen.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

From my experience riding a bike that I had owned and ridden many miles on for 12 yrs. before adding a mid drive kit system, TSDZ2, I only notice the weight, 45 lbs. with pedals, when lifting the bike and not in regards to any handling. In fact the centrally located low weight of the motor seems to aid in stability more than anything else. My battery is located on top of the dt and as low as it will go which in the end concentrates the bulk of the e system in about as good a position for optimum balance front to rear as possible. This formula is followed by most these days whether your battery is exposed or integrated into the dt. The problem with the kit system I use is that it hangs below the 42t chainring and isn't really rated for taking smacks so I have to be a little careful about that at times. 

If I was going to design a FS bike around a motor system I wouldn't be afraid to raise the bb some over what is considered to be normal these days, although I did have an IRD Full Stroker, a hardtail with 220mm cranks and a 13" bb height bitd and that rode fine with a little getting used to, to take advantage of the extra weight and get some more ground clearance and the crank ends/pedals a bit more clearance also. 

I have been running a 700c 2.3 on an i35 carbon rim in the front and a 650b 2.8 on a carbon rim in the rear for a few years now, before and after adding the e. Not sure if it is the end all performance upgrade for everyone but it does work for me as I prefer a narrower front tire for the more precise steering it affords and let low psi and a little shock action help take the bumps and traction in the rear is better with a wider tire and on this bike I can only fit a 2.5 at best on a 700c rim in the back.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

My Focus is a tad bit cumbersome in tight, slow switchbacky singletrack. Mines an XL with 29” wheels = long wheelbase and overall big bike. I ran out of juice the other day 2 miles out at the end of our ride and wow. On the limit, granny gearing. My battery indicator turned red. We stopped and I turned it off. When turned back on, it only allowed me to shift, zero assist. I always ride my rear Shock on wide open and it seems to handle fine.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Not unless you’re using it as an anchor or as a weapon.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

The Xtra 20 pounds is a great advantage.
Go over the bar,
it will realy nail u falling on u.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

The weight is good at speed. Corners good with weight on the front wheel all the time. It resists deflection from the elements.

Jumping and drops, one needs to adjust. The front will drop sooner so one has to adjust. Small drops, no big deal, but a 6+ footer, it will show itself. Popping off small roots and rocks... not likely. One needs real jumps and yanking the bike up doesn't really work. One has to use the energy of the bike to launch it up. Thus, need a real jump and lip. Forward motion will go skyward high if done right.

Slow speed, zero speed, around the garage, loading in the vehicle... pain.


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## stiksandstones (Oct 7, 2004)

Emtb handling still sucks compared to any modern day trail bike. It's as simple as that. That statement probably comes off as an ebike hater, it's not, I have owned one for years, and ride it about 25% of the time to my other regular trail bikes.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

fc said:


> We all know the handling disadvantages of a 50 lb bike...but are there upsides?


Of course. Why else would they make F1 cars as heavy as possible?


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## Larsey (Jan 14, 2004)

i will say the 2019 Levo FSR is a great handling eBike. Lots of traction on the front tire and hides it's weight really well.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Watch the 2020 with 2 more wheels, GRRREAT improvement !!!!!


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

fc said:


> We all know the handling disadvantages of a 50 lb bike. It pushes in corners, doesn't stop, doesn't pop up and its harder to change direction.
> 
> But are there upsides? Those 15+ extra lbs in the bb and downtube seem to help.
> - front tire does not slip as much
> ...


Yesterday I broke my Haibike loose on a fast sandy bermed corner; it didn't feel any different recovering than my non-motorized bicycle. So I don't feel a downside. Theoretically an increase in the ratio between sprung weight and unsprung weight should improve traction on bumpy terrain because the wheel can more easily track the ground but I'm missing my Avalanche-tuned suspension. I haven't felt any tendency for the rear wheel to lift yet even though I don't have a dropper post and the head angle is a steepish 68 degrees; it may be that because of the extra 12 pounds mounted down low I can get away without getting me body as low; I'm only testing this on short downhills with a good run-out.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I am no expert but i have the impression many Ebikes have what i consider a low BB compared to the BB height of regular bikes 5-8 years ago.
So are you comparing oranges with Eoranges?
The Ebike might be the looser if we consider pedal strikes? frame hits on rocks, roots, trees?


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

straight line handling in chunder is where the extra weigh shines. Much smoother and more confidence inspiring going fast, steep, and really rough. The inertia carries you through it.

as the corners get tighter and the body english is needed more, the ebike underperforms compared to non ebike. I find it constantly overshooting the line I am going for, so end up monster-trucking a lot more. However some of this is due to my ebike having choppered-out enduro geometry, compared to my trail-oriented plus-tire-bike with only 120/130 F/R suspension. There are some trails I avoid here due to being far too tight, narrow and gnarly for the long ebike. There are some steep rooty drops that I avoid on my trail bike but the ebike laps it up. caveat: my ebike has higher end Fox suspension, my trail bike has a Pike up front Cane Creek in back so there is some variance there too.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Trying to rationalize an ebike by making it's cons into pros, kinda sounds like what they teach people to do in interviews. 

Ebikes are heavier than non ebikes, there is no benefit to a heavier bike unless you use it to cross train: bicep curls.

I'd love to see folks go onto the non ebike forums and suggest increasing bike weight to improve handling, now that would be a fun thread


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Way better traction on my heavier ebike and better stability. JME.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'd love to see folks go onto the non ebike forums and suggest increasing bike weight to improve handling, now that would be a fun thread


I think the reason most people obsess over bicycle weight is due to the fact that you have to pedal them up hills.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> I think the reason most people obsess over bicycle weight is due to the fact that you have to pedal them up hills.


Now that I have a 56-lb bike, I'm wondering more than ever what a lighter (23-25 lb) bike would be like for climbing. My normal bike is now 33.5 lbs with the dropper post and it's pretty slow climbing. The main problem is that I love beefy tires and they weigh a lot...


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> Trying to rationalize an ebike by making it's cons into pros, kinda sounds like what they teach people to do in interviews.
> 
> Ebikes are heavier than non ebikes, there is no benefit to a heavier bike unless you use it to cross train: bicep curls.
> 
> I'd love to see folks go onto the non ebike forums and suggest increasing bike weight to improve handling, now that would be a fun thread


https://www.bikeradar.com/us/mtb/news/article/orange-bikes-strange-329-dh-weight-52611/


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nah, that wouldn't be the reason, otherwise more people would lose weight 

If you only plan to ride your bike in a straight line, no jumping or riding technical terrain, then weight doesn't matter much.

If you plan to ride anything technical, then weight definitely impacts agility.

Think of it this way: Would you rather clamber about on rocky trails with four pound hiking boots or use lightweight approach shoes? The big ole boots are great for stablity on mellow terrain when you're carrying a load, but they totally suck for scrambles... the same goes for a heavy bike.

But please, you all just keep on with the "heavier is better" mantra, I'm sure that's a great selling point 

On a "lighter note", we've been out with the Pivot Shuttle, riding the trails I just finished on our property, what a nice bike, super agile, the extra weight is barely noticeable, certainly less ungainly that the Levo FSR it replaced. With the Levo, if my wife dropped the bike too low to side, it was too heavy to recover, whereas the Shuttle is recoverable from down low like a non-ebike.

Also digging on the Shimano Step system, so much more "natural" than Bosch.



J.B. Weld said:


> I think the reason most people obsess over bicycle weight is due to the fact that you have to pedal them up hills.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I read that, also know that auto racing also plays with weight, but the weight they're talking about is on a DH bike and it's not for certain that it makes a positive difference, it's just heresay.

If adding weight to a bike was that advantageous, then we're see it being done on the race bikes... yeah, it's not 



Harryman said:


> https://www.bikeradar.com/us/mtb/news/article/orange-bikes-strange-329-dh-weight-52611/


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

I know, it's all hearsay really. Lots of people stating how a heavier bike "feels" more stable and planted. Maybe they are, maybe they're not, no one is really sharing data if they have any. 

I've got no interest in making my bike heavier just for the sake of it, although I build my bikes focused on their performance, not weight. I don't even weigh them, there's not much point since I wouldn't change anything anyway. 

I've never found a lighter bike made me a faster climber, but a lighter me certainly does lol.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Well i asked that question to my crystal ball.
Do not blame me.
Here is the answer.
When the new generation of batery comes out
...
lighter will be better.
That ball never lies.
Next question.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Harryman said:


> I know, it's all hearsay really. Lots of people stating how a heavier bike "feels" more stable and planted. Maybe they are, maybe they're not, no one is really sharing data if they have any..


Not the same as an e-bike, but when I put bikepacking bags on my XC bike it really changes. adding 30lbs to a 22lbs bike makes it feel sluggish most of the time. The time it does not however it downhill through loose and rocky crap. It just blows through and is less affected by rocks. There is just so much weight that nothing stops it. So I suspect an e-bike DH will be the same. Monster truck bashing through stuff. No finesse.


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

Harryman said:


> I've never found a lighter bike made me a faster climber, but a lighter me certainly does lol.


lighter bikes are marginally faster. I remember racing int he 80s and 90s. when I switched to a ultralight Klein Attitude at around 20lbs around 1990, it transformed my climbing compared to the Ritchey and Rocky I rode before that. But so many other variables there, with much stiffer alu frame w short chain stays and lighter wheels/tires too. Add in road racing training which probably accounts for the bulk of the gains.

absolutely hate climbing with my current 36lb Devinci Marshall, albeit it actually slays the steep loose hills better than anything... due to plus tires.

ah variables


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## revel.bike (Oct 6, 2018)

My experience may be helpful, since I design and build conversion kits. This of course allows me to ride a bike before adding 10 lbs of motor and battery. The Transition scout pictured below was 31lbs before conversion, and is 40.8lbs as pictured. No carbon, except the frame!
At first, I definitely noticed a big difference in cornering. I had to start braking earlier, and the bike wanted to keep going in a straight line. In the rough stuff, it kind of had a dead feeling. Suspension tuning helped a bit, but I think I had to adjust my riding style to corner and descend as quickly. Instead of letting a light non-e bike bounce around under me, I tend to plow through things a bit more, and muscle the bike through corners rather than let it float. It's difficult to explain, but it's surprising how much difference 10 lbs makes. I'm not sure if I will ever be as fast downhill on an ebike, but I think with enough practice, I can close the gap a bit. I bet riders with more of a "plow thru everything" style will not notice as much of a difference. Thoughts?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I just rode home with my first HT Ebike. With hard tires lots of PSI it felt extra fast without the assistance.
I might like it better than my 22 pounds HT but the wheelbase is 2.5 in more so i will never be able to tell why i like or hate the feel because there is not just 1 single difference.
Good luck finding bikes and or Ebikes that you enjoy.
I got a great deal on an unsold that will help me because i do not have a car. Instead of waiting for the train or the bus i will pedal to and back from the trails.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Depends on what you are riding.
Plus tires will just heat your motor and controller up faster. Smaller diameter wheels give you more torque and everything runs cooler, but its all a balancing act on what you ride.


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

Getting an Ebike has improved my biceps lifting the bike into and of my car.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Gotta work smarter not harder, get a hitch ramp for the rear


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

No. Lighter bikes are always better. Silly question.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Well, one has to take into consideration what the ebike will be used for whats "better" "best" and how much pedaling the rider wants to do. Hard to have a light, nimble bike if you want to go 100 miles or up steep mountains. For casual riding with assist, then a light nimble ebike would be totally beneficial. Once you take out pedaling, or very minimal pedaling the battery gets bigger and bigger.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

My thoughts are the opposite. If you want to go 100 miles and climb steep, major benefit having light and nimble. If it’s casual, does it matter?


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