# SPOT 2 Satellite GPS Messenger PLB



## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Anyone else have experience with the SPOT Satellite GPS Messenger? (I put in lots of key words since it's hard to find threads with just "spot".)

I found my SPOT 1 has "spotty" reception. I'm not confident it will work in poor reception areas in case of emergency.

The SPOT 2 "Messenger" is supposed to be much better on reception, as well as smaller. But it still isn't perfect. I'm debating on upgrading.

I've seen some mildly positive information on the Messenger in a Norcal thread. Anyone else?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Well, a SPOT is not a PLB...it uses a totally different system.

However, it does seem that the 2nd gen is worth the upgrade. I heard lots of complaints about reception on the 1st gen, but really nothing on the 2nd gen.

And, depending on how much messaging capability you want, The Delorme PN-60 can be had with a SPOT and you can send text messages worded however you like (pick me up at FR5500 and FR6631) kind of a thing. Now that gadget is too new that I haven't heard anyone talking about it yet, and how well it works. I imagine typing anything out could be a pain given the UI on the Delorme (it looks just as bad to type on as any other non-touch screen GPS).


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> Well, a SPOT is not a PLB...it uses a totally different system.
> 
> However, it does seem that the 2nd gen is worth the upgrade. I heard lots of complaints about reception on the 1st gen, but really nothing on the 2nd gen.
> 
> And, depending on how much messaging capability you want, The Delorme PN-60 can be had with a SPOT and you can send text messages worded however you like (pick me up at FR5500 and FR6631) kind of a thing. Now that gadget is too new that I haven't heard anyone talking about it yet, and how well it works. I imagine typing anything out could be a pain given the UI on the Delorme (it looks just as bad to type on as any other non-touch screen GPS).


Thanks.

I looked up PLB on Wikipedia and the official "PLB" units operate at 406 MHz. But the spot is a type of a personal locator beacon, and listed under non-standard "Alternate Technologies". I've seen some reviews saying the SPOT is more accurate because the 406 MHz PLB standard doesn't have enough digits in the transmit code to get more than ~100 meter accuracy.

Anyway, the official ELTs are good in that they don't need a subscription and more likely to work in bad reception areas. But they cost closer to $400. They also don't transmit other non-emergency messages which is very useful.

I only use Garmin GPS receivers, but the abilty to send other messages sounds great. I suspect SPOT will come up with a unit with an embedded screen at some point.

I more wish they'd upgrade the transmit power for better reception. They seem to have the GPS reception issue fixed with the SPOT 2 Messenger. But they need to improve the satellite transmition at 2 GHz, which is a problematic frequency to begin with, and then they use a lower power than the 406 MHz PLBs.


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## 3034 (Apr 12, 2006)

my spot 2 works as advertised.
The tracking feature is not as robust as you would like.
ON a typical 2-3 hr ride it picks up less than 1/2 the time.
I blame this on the weak return signal back to the satellite, not the gps reception.
I like the fact that when you send and 'OK' message you can wait for
the confirmation message that it went out.
I've never used the spot 1, so I can't compare them


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## EBrider (Aug 3, 2004)

Spot 2 is a huge upgrade over Spot 1. Using the tracking feature, the only time it went out was on a heavily tree covered climb in Napa. I have been keeping it in my jersey pocket, which isn't ideal either.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Yeah, the SPOT works in a similar manner, but my comment had to do with the fact that the SPOT uses a different satellite constellation than a traditional PLB and is monitored by different people than a traditional PLB.

The big thing I do like about the SPOT is the option of transmitting non-emergency messages.



BigLarry said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I looked up PLB on Wikipedia and the official "PLB" units operate at 406 MHz. But the spot is a type of a personal locator beacon, and listed under non-standard "Alternate Technologies". I've seen some reviews saying the SPOT is more accurate because the 406 MHz PLB standard doesn't have enough digits in the transmit code to get more than ~100 meter accuracy.
> 
> ...


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## Krein (Jul 3, 2004)

I can confirm that the SPOT2's seem to be able to get more points out than SPOT1s. That said, my experience with SPOT1s is still pretty good. For short rides (<3 hours) the tracking won't do much to show where you went, but for longer stuff they work quite well. We've tracked dozens of races with SPOT1s, often used by people with no experience with them, and had good results.

SPOT2's are still not perfect when it comes to putting out points every 10 minutes (that is how often they try to send a TRACK message). I think one of the biggest reasons for this is that the SPOT is not continuously tracking your position. Remember that these units have a battery life that is 10-14 times longer than a typical Garmin unit. Since they don't compute your position every second (you can't go very far in a second) that means the SPOT's have to do a more expensive (computationally), less accurate GPS acquire process every time they send out a signal. What this means is that if you are moving, there's a higher chance that the GPS acquisition will fail. If you are stationary (as you are when you'd be likely to hit an OK, HELP or 911) the points seem to go out much more reliably.

That's my experience, based on watching thousands of SPOT dots over the last couple years (see http://trackleaders.com).


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## jadedbee (Sep 11, 2005)

*I upgraded...*

I just went ahead and upgraded from the Spot I to the II.

I was decently happy with the Spot I as I didn't use it for tracking, just to send "ok' messages at stopping points. There where a lot of times when it didn't get through, though, even while I was stopped and letting it run for several minutes. It was also kinda big to fit in my pack on long rides along with all my other stuff.

So when I finally went in to REI and held it, I was sold. It's smaller and lighter than my cell phone!

Other cool upgrades I like: covers on the emergency buttons (I had taped over the emergency buttons on my last Spot for fear they would get pushed in my pack). There's also a lot more visual feedback on this unit: lights to tell you whether or not it's receiving GPS, and whether your message was sent or not. The new custom message button will also be good for me - I programmed it to send "I'm at the trail head", which I'll use at the beginning and end of my rides. This message will text, while the other "ok" messages will just go to email.

It also came with a carrying case. Unfortunately, the pouch is pretty cheap and I wouldn't trust it over bumpy terrain. You could replace the carabiniere (sp?) with a strong climbing upgrade, but the eyelet on the pouch looks like it will tear out easily. The velcro "latch" is pretty weak, too. I was hoping it would allow me to attach it to the outside of my Camelbak facing the sky, but there is no good way to do it without modifying your pack and the pouch.

This attachment problem, and the fact I was not eligible for the free tracking offer they had coupons for at REI, made me decide to skip the extra $50 for tracking.

But ultimately it came down to having invested in the first one for a reason and not wanting to get left behind using an unsupported product. I will be testing it out this weekend.


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## jadedbee (Sep 11, 2005)

Krein or anybody else using Spot,

Have you used the Spot Adventures page to post your rides? I'm having this weird bug where the map is sometimes centered off the coast of Africa, no matter where the way points are.


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## Krein (Jul 3, 2004)

Yeah, I've put together some cool adventures on the site:

http://www.spotadventures.com/user/trips?user_id=42405

I've always done it after the trip (you need to do it within 30 days or the points will be gone) and haven't had any problems. I like how easy it is to add geotagged photos.

Are you trying to create an adventure from scratch or are you importing data that your SPOT collected?


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## jadedbee (Sep 11, 2005)

*Browser error?*

I exported it from the Spot data. I just created the Adventure page when I was fooling around with my upgrade settings on the Spot site. It has the longitude and latitude correct, but some of the time when I'm viewing it, I think the browser defaults to centering the map at 0,0. I have to drag the map (as well as the smaller map that is the icon for the adventure) over to find my way points. I don't think this is specific to the Spot Adventure site, as in the past my in-laws have complained that my Spot messages were showing I was in Africa or Europe when they looked at them. This is one of the reasons I upgraded, but it looks like with my latest test that it's still a problem. I can't really explain to the non-technical people in my family that it is a problem with their browser, especially since mine seems to do it some of the time, too. 
Krien, I looked at some of your adventures and didn't get the same problem. By the way, nice pictures. I would post the one I'm having a problem with, but my test Adventure is private as it's my house. After this weekend I should have something to show.


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## jadedbee (Sep 11, 2005)

*Hardware = good; software = bad*

Used the new Spot this weekend. Every message I sent was received! At one point where I'd had problems transmitting before (the intersection of FDLT and Connector, if you know were that is), I got the "red" GPS light initially. I moved away from some trees and it turned green. The custom msg button came in handy, too, as it was a longer ride than I had anticipated and my wife was waiting on me to go to dinner.

However, the Spot Adventure site has a really frustrating GUI when trying to connect all your way points and figure out the mileage. It might work better if your'e using the tracking feature, but with just OK messages, it's worthless. You might as well just spend the hours creating a map from scratch on Google maps. Here's what I was able to post. Note that now the icon is in Puerto Rico! Also, as I mention, the mileage is just for Robie Point. That's when I gave up. You can find the mileage and map for the Whole Enchilllada all over the net.

*Whole Enchillada plus Robie Point trail*




Share your Adventures with SpotAdventures


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Upgraded to Spot 2*

Since the SPOT 2 Rebate expires on Friday, June 11, 2010, I decided to go ahead and upgrade to the SPOT 2 "Messenger" today. Everyone feels it helps with a lot of issues that I also see, in terms of reception, speed, button usage, and size.

I did a lot of thinking about going to a true ELT/PLB for ~$450 but no annual fee. Also about sticking with the existing SPOT 1.

I finally decided to upgrade to SPOT 2 as I like and most use it's reporting feature already, not available on ELT/ELBs. This "I'm OK" feature greatly comforts my wife who worries about me as I often ride solo in remote areas. I can also show her my progress and let her know I'm OK if running slow, so she knows to NOT call the sheriff if I'm especially late.

As long as I'm using the SPOT service anyway, the ugrade makes sense. Although SPOT 1 works marginally for me, the improvements in speed, reception, buttons, and size are valuable. For only $100 (after rebate) it's a deal, especially compared to the $100/year I'm paying for service.

I may at some point get a true ELT/PLB as well. The small SPOT 2 size means I can carry both with minimal extra weight. But for now the SPOT 2 will handle 97% of my emergency needs, since my riding areas are generally more exposed. I'll experiment with the "OK" button and decide if I really ever need to buy an ELB in the future.


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## racerwad (Sep 17, 2005)

What SPOT 2 rebate are you using?


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

racerwad said:


> What SPOT 2 rebate are you using?


The top one here.

Swap SPOT 1 for a SPOT 2 and add 1 year of service: $50 Rebate


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Solid. I do like the "I'm OK" feature, too. If I lived somewhere that more remote riding outside of cell coverage was a regular possibility, I'm sure my wife would insist on one.

Right now, such rides are pretty rare. The trails available to me in that kind of a situation aren't great mtb trails, but they're good when I'm in an exploratory mood, so I don't go often.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*SPOT Messenger works great!*

Yesterday, I tried out the new SPOT Messenger that arrived, after transferring my account over from my old SPOT 1.

The new SPOT 2 Messenger is MUCH better. From fresh out of the box, it found the satellites and transmitted an OK message within 3-4 minutes. That's as good as my Garmin 60CSx on a first start, as a lot of satellite data needs to downloaded on the first start in a new location. On each subsequent request, it sent within one minute. My location was perfect on the satellite. It showed exactly what part of my back yard where I was standing at the time. 

The LED lights make more sense now, and better instructions and a plastic instruction card are included. It now shows more feedback on success or fail. 

I like the cover over the Help and 911 buttons. They include a couple spare covers in case they get broken lost, but they're locked down by the back plate anyway.

Overall, it's much lighter and smaller. 

In sum it's a major improvement in every way:
Smaller
Lighter
Better Buttons
Better Indicators
Much Faster
Better Reception (based on speed and accuracy of GPS. I havent checked in deep woods yet)

I'm glad I upgraded.


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## gps_dr (Feb 27, 2007)

NateHawk said:


> Well, a SPOT is not a PLB...it uses a totally different system.
> 
> However, it does seem that the 2nd gen is worth the upgrade. I heard lots of complaints about reception on the 1st gen, but really nothing on the 2nd gen.
> 
> And, depending on how much messaging capability you want, The Delorme PN-60 can be had with a SPOT and you can send text messages worded however you like (pick me up at FR5500 and FR6631) kind of a thing. Now that gadget is too new that I haven't heard anyone talking about it yet, and how well it works. I imagine typing anything out could be a pain given the UI on the Delorme (it looks just as bad to type on as any other non-touch screen GPS).


The only people to use PN60/Spot so far are alpha or beta testers.
Actually it is much easier to enter text on DeLorme PN GPS than Garmin non-touch. They also allow longer comments than older Garmin units.


Zoom in/out rocker deletes characters / adds spaces
Find button changes cap lock/symbols
Mark button goes to OK field
Cursor can go diagonally on keypad
Very easy to correct mistakes - and pretty quick using both hands.

The DeLorme-Spot interface allows sending of a set of "canned messages" you create online or short messages entered on unit to any contact/group you set up.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*SPOT indeed Saves People!*

I ran into the Ranger today at one of my favorite MTB parks, Henry Coe just south of San Jose. It's a very big park many miles across and many mountains to get lost in.

I mentioned I had a SPOT and asked his opinion. He said the SPOT saved two people in the park in the last two years - one a biker who broke his collar bone. The other was a camper who got appendicitis and couldn't move out of his tent. He said they were both in remote and hidden locations that would have taken a lot of work to find. Instead, he drove right to the location in under an hour and helped the people to a hospital. (He drove the biker to a helicopter pad.)

The Ranger said he permitted one biker to put his email into his SPOT list. He finds it fun to watch where the guy is going on Google Earth, each time the biker rides the park, sending OK messages with the SPOT.

Anyway, I was surprised that it was so useful and the Ranger liked the SPOT so much. I was expecting to hear him say something about false alarms or something.

And incidentally, my SPOT 2 Messenger is working great. I was under foliage today and hit the OK button. I was surprised to see it catch the GPS and go green in a few seconds of power on. I hit OK and the message went out a few seconds later. All of them went through quickly, which I verified after getting home.


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

Hi,

Thread resurrected!

I'm considering buying a Spot2 (or a SpotConnect). how well do they work under tree cover or deep in the woods?

Cheers
Richard.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

PuddleDuck said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thread resurrected!
> 
> ...


There are more options than just SPOT now.

Look into Delorme InReach and Briartek Cerberus as alternatives. You will find reports of spectacular failures of the SPOT device. Whether they were user error, system error, or some combination of both, I don't know but I suspect both. Still, there have been enough of these to raise some doubts about the reliability of the SPOT system. AND, some of the problem reports have been in clear, open skies. So you've got me. They're no PLB. And I've witnessed firsthand how people following someone's SPOT can overreact.

I knew a guy (online) who went on an ambitious hiking trip across Baranof Island in AK. One day, he dropped his SPOT into a ravine. He had live tracking enabled, so the SPOT kept broadcasting the same location for days and people on the forum began to panic. Some of them knew the guy personally, and were given instructions on what to do in case some problem occurred. They called SAR for the guy, even though he was not yet due to Sitka (let alone overdue). SAR went out to see what was up and he was fine, actually ahead of schedule, cruising through a fjord in his packraft.


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## jadedbee (Sep 11, 2005)

NateHawk, can you give some more info on the two units you mention (unit and subscription price)?

I felt the SPOT 2 was a large improvement over the older SPOT, but would still occasionally have transmission errors (although the GPS light that turned from red to green when you had a lock was very helpful in preventing this). I did not use the tracking feature, just manually sent messages. Unfortunately, I lost mine while backpacking the John Muir Trail last summer. In retrospect, I probably wouldn't have lost it if it was attached to my pack and continuously transmitting, instead of having to pull it out, find a clear spot to set it to transmit while you have a snack, and then remember to grab it and turn it off before you got moving again.

SPOT seem to really be pushing their smartphone model now (SpotConnect), but I don't own a smartphone. I was able to push the rest of my subscription back to the older Spot model I still had, but I am much less likely to use it now that I got used to the smaller, lighter, more consistent Spot 2. Money is now more of a concern, so I've just made sure to ride with others when I'm going to be out of cellphone range.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jadedbee said:


> NateHawk, can you give some more info on the two units you mention (unit and subscription price)?


Google's not broken, is it?


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## jadedbee (Sep 11, 2005)

Doh; lazy as charged!


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

The first SPOT had horrible reception problems. It would fail even sitting in the open on top of a hill for more than 20 minutes. Fortunately, that version is history. 

I've found the newer SPOT2 to be very much better. It works for sure in the clear. Under some foliage and in canyons it's also worked fine for me. In fact, I can't think of an instance the SPOT2 has failed to transmit for me in many uses to send an OK signal. But I do try to get out from under the trees after my SPOT 1 experience. 

The Delorme InReach and Briartek Cerberus look like similar products to the SPOT2. Good to see the competition, but I didn't know about them before. 

The PLB alternative has a higher cost for the unit, but no yearly fee. I don't like that approach as I prefer to send "OK" signals and perhaps even a "Need Help" message that's made possible with the SPOT2. A PLB can only send a rescue signal. 

Also, with a PLB, you can only hit the button while conscious. In many, if not most, critical situations riding solo like I do, that may not always be possible. With the SPOT2, you can periodically send OK signals along your route. So if you become incapacitated by accident, medical emergency, hijacked, eaten, or whatever, then the search can start along your route at your last OK send point. (You always leave your route and return time with someone, don't you?) It will greatly improve the search speed and effort.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

they are similar to the SPOT device, but both of those use a different satellite network for communications (Iridium) which allows 2-way text messaging that SPOT cannot handle. I think if you want the device for communication purposes more than PLB/rescue purposes, 2-way text messaging makes sense.

I know many people have not had any problems with their SPOT 2, but I have read enough reports of it happening to know that problems do crop up. my understanding is that the satellite communications networks have less comprehensive coverage than the GPS networks, so it's more likely that the SPOT will get a GPS lock but be unable to transmit than to fail to achieve a GPS lock, but have adequate communications signal.

And that's the challenge with these devices. They're relying on not one satellite network, but two.

PLB's work on a different satellite network entirely, and the way I understand the emergency function of the satellite communicators, they switch to an always-on repeating mode to increase the chances that an emergency signal will be sent.

I do think that relying on "live tracking" or periodic "ok" messages creates a false sense of security. Lots of things can happen that can result in failure to send an "ok" message or a failure of live tracking to change locations (a lost device comes to mind...hmmm) but the person is perfectly fine. I think leaving a trip plan that includes a "I'll be done by xx day" schedule covers those bases just fine. Calling SAR on someone who lost their SPOT is a waste of resources, really.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> I do think that relying on "live tracking" or periodic "ok" messages creates a false sense of security. Lots of things can happen that can result in failure to send an "ok" message or a failure of live tracking to change locations (a lost device comes to mind...hmmm) but the person is perfectly fine. I think leaving a trip plan that includes a "I'll be done by xx day" schedule covers those bases just fine. Calling SAR on someone who lost their SPOT is a waste of resources, really.


The guy who left his beacon running should have put out a note to his friends, and his friends should have called him first. This is a human failure, not a technology fail. Also, I thought before calling in SAR, that the SPOT operators spend a few minutes to try and contact the owner or friends (on the list you create on their web site) to prevent just such false alarms.

Losing the device is way down on my list of worries. If it was, I'd tie it with a string to my camelback, along with all the other things I might loose (cell phone, water, food, helmet, pants,....). And I rarely loose things by being careful. After each rest stop, I look around and think about what I took out before heading on. The Orange SPOT is hard to miss.

I don't use the live tracking (which is an extra cost anyway). I instead just manually send 4-6 OK messages during rest stops while riding solo in desolate areas. So far they've all got through on many rides (with the SPOT2). And even if one particular message fails, the previous message points will still be very helpful to narrow down my position on my planned route, much better than nothing at all.

Overall, the SPOT2 is not that expensive. The unit cost is ~$100 with rebate, and since I do a lot of long solo rides, I got a five year subscription that's fairly low too, maybe only $65/year? I really don't need to chat or text on the trail. The few bits of info it gives (Emergency, Help, OK) and postion are all that's essential for my solo rides.

The SPOT2 is not perfect, but seems to fit my needs. I almost used it for an emergency once when a fellow rider was in trouble. We fortunately made it back OK (barely), but everyone was very glad that I had this with me just in case. It could literally mean the difference betwen life and death in such situations.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

BigLarry said:


> The guy who left his beacon running should have put out a note to his friends, and his friends should have called him first. This is a human failure, not a technology fail. Also, I thought before calling in SAR, that the SPOT operators spend a few minutes to try and contact the owner or friends (on the list you create on their web site) to prevent just such false alarms.


How do you propose someone handle that situation, really? The guy I know who had that happen had no way to notify anyone that the SPOT fell down a canyon. No cell service, the spot was his only outside "contact" if you will. Nobody could have contacted him to find out what was wrong, or if anything at all. The ONLY way to check up on him was to load everybody up, do a flyover, send a boat out, and check his itinerary (which he HAD filed with the local SAR crews).

SAR never would have done anything except for the people calling them that his SPOT hadn't moved for a day, and he had sent no "OK" messages during that time.

AND, the guy was careful. He did have the SPOT tied to his pack. And he had to put it on top of his pack because it wasn't getting any tracking messages out unless it was. But he was also bushwacking through thick country and the thick brush ripped it off without him realizing it. When he did, he went back to retrieve it, but the terrain was too rugged for him to retrieve it.


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## Mr Bacon Jr (Apr 2, 2008)

FWIW- used a SPOT 2 at Philmont this past summer to keep ( nervous) parents appraised of our crew's progress for two weeks. Performed flawlessly. All OK messages delivered, and no issues with coverage. Don't know how you handle lost device, but for us, it worked very well. Will be taking with us when we return in 2013.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

I carry my Spot 2 in a little pouch on the top of my pack strap. Nice clear view of the sky, whether I'm riding or hiking. Hard to lose, but easy to access for sending messages. It has been extremely reliable for tracking my rides, sending messages, etc. It adds a nice safety margin for rides like the Colorado Trail Race, Kokopelli's etc. I even used the 911 feature once when I came across a guy who was having a heart attack (he lived, thanks to a quick heli evacuation).


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Rented a Spot2 on the Tour Divide last year, it was a brand new unit.

It failed after a week, no longer able to get a satellite lock.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> How do you propose someone handle that situation, really? The guy I know who had that happen had no way to notify anyone that the SPOT fell down a canyon. No cell service, the spot was his only outside "contact" if you will. Nobody could have contacted him to find out what was wrong, or if anything at all. The ONLY way to check up on him was to load everybody up, do a flyover, send a boat out, and check his itinerary (which he HAD filed with the local SAR crews).
> 
> SAR never would have done anything except for the people calling them that his SPOT hadn't moved for a day, and he had sent no "OK" messages during that time.
> 
> AND, the guy was careful. He did have the SPOT tied to his pack. And he had to put it on top of his pack because it wasn't getting any tracking messages out unless it was. But he was also bushwacking through thick country and the thick brush ripped it off without him realizing it. When he did, he went back to retrieve it, but the terrain was too rugged for him to retrieve it.


First, this was one of those uncertain cases that was better to check as SAR did.

In this case, I wouldn't blame the SPOT technology. It worked just fine, sending out the messages just like it should. And the working technology likely minimized the SAR effort as they could go right to the "lost" beacon. And since the guy wisely gave a route and schedule, they could also find him and verify his status too.

His friends also did the right thing. I assume the point of the guy having the tracking was so his friends could keep a watch over his progress. They did just what he intended when his track didn't move.

Maybe the guy should have realized that his stranded stationary beacon would cause people concern (which was his intent), and found a way to get a message out somehow? He was probably wise not to divert off his planned route to get access to outside communication. But he never met anyone in that time who could carry out a message? He never got in cell phone or radio range in all that time? In marginal areas, texts often get out even if voice can't.

I only see a minor fault, in his not better securing his sole device for outward communication over the week. From what I know by your description, I'd say that was the biggest issue here.

However, I feel it's wrong to put any blame on the SPOT technology. that appeared to be doing it's job very well.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

TobyGadd said:


> I even used the 911 feature once when I came across a guy who was having a heart attack (he lived, thanks to a quick heli evacuation).


How long did it take for the emergency response after you hit the button?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

BigLarry said:


> First, this was one of those uncertain cases that was better to check as SAR did.
> 
> In this case, I wouldn't blame the SPOT technology. It worked just fine, sending out the messages just like it should. And the working technology likely minimized the SAR effort as they could go right to the "lost" beacon. And since the guy wisely gave a route and schedule, they could also find him and verify his status too.
> 
> ...


The guy I know who dropped his down a ravine saw absolutely NO ONE for 3 days after losing his device. There were no trails in the area he was traveling. No cell reception whatsoever. Noone within range to even see smoke signals. His only way to deal with the situation was to move faster/farther than his plan outlined to reach his destination (Sitka, AK) sooner.

I'm not blaming the SPOT technology in this case. Here, I'm pointing out that the usage model created hassle that didn't need to be there. If he only was going to use it for emergency signaling, nobody would have become alarmed and SAR would not have been sent out.

He returned to the area the following year to finish his trip (the extra hassle in this situation encouraged him to cut his trip a couple weeks short), and he did use a SPOT. Some differences, however. He DID NOT use live tracking. He DID NOT make the address public - he only gave it to a few specific people with specific instructions on how to handle certain situations (including what to do if he doesn't send an "ok" message for awhile). He also carried a VHF radio to use to contact SAR if he needed to do so for some unforseen reason.

And like I've said before (and I will repeat again), even though some people never have a problem with the device, we DO get reports like this one:



> Rented a Spot2 on the Tour Divide last year, it was a brand new unit.
> 
> It failed after a week, no longer able to get a satellite lock.


Did SAR need to be sent after 6th Element in this case? No, they did not. Simple device malfunction. These sorts of devices are indeed cool, and can be useful, but like other electronics, they are not infallible. One point here is that people need to really address what to do if/when there is a failure of some kind. The other point I have here is that a true PLB is built to be more reliable because it's different than a SPOT. A SPOT is essentially a toy that has an emergency feature built in. A PLB lacks the toy functionality and is ONLY built for emergency situations. They're not infallible, either. I've read of a few situations of them failing, also...but from what I can tell, that's a lot more rare than SPOT failures.

If I was doing solo trips that made my wife nervous and she wanted the peace of mind to know where I was and doing well, a SPOT/InReach/Cerberus would be the sort of thing I'd carry, with the caveat that she not panic if the thing experienced a failure or I dropped it and it kept sending the same location for days or I didn't send an "OK" message at a certain time. Crap happens and you need to account for it. She would be instructed to ONLY call emergency personnel if I missed a deadline to reach a destination or check in with a specific cutoff date.

If I wanted a device to use for my OWN purposes to signal for a rescue and nothing else, I would carry a PLB. Some REAL PLB's nowadays do offer an "ok" message functionality and I might consider that to satisfy a nervous family member.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> ...I'm not blaming the SPOT technology in this case. Here, I'm pointing out that the usage model created hassle that didn't need to be there. If he only was going to use it for emergency signaling, nobody would have become alarmed and SAR would not have been sent out.
> 
> He returned to the area the following year to finish his trip, and he did use a SPOT. Some differences, however. He DID NOT use live tracking. He DID NOT make the address public - he only gave it to a few specific people with specific instructions on how to handle certain situations (including what to do if he doesn't send an "ok" message for awhile). He also carried a VHF radio to use to contact SAR if he needed to do so for some unforseen reason.


I tend to agree that the tracking mode has some hassles. I personally don't use the "tracking" function. But I don't think it's all that bad if you want to spend the extra bucks. Just be sure to secure the SPOT and have a strategy in place with friends in case it gives out. But, for me, the "OK" button indicates someone is alive and I'm actually conveying I'm OK. That's more useful for me, and less bucks. A few occasional points, along with my route, can greatly narrow down my location in case of emergency.



NateHawk said:


> ...The other point I have here is that a true PLB is built to be more reliable because it's different than a SPOT. A SPOT is essentially a toy that has an emergency feature built in. A PLB lacks the toy functionality and is ONLY built for emergency situations. They're not infallible, either. I've read of a few situations of them failing, also...but from what I can tell, that's a lot more rare than SPOT failures.
> 
> If I was doing solo trips that made my wife nervous and she wanted the peace of mind to know where I was and doing well, a SPOT/InReach/Cerberus would be the sort of thing I'd carry, with the caveat that she not panic if the thing experienced a failure or I dropped it and it kept sending the same location for days or I didn't send an "OK" message at a certain time. Crap happens and you need to account for it. She would be instructed to ONLY call emergency personnel if I missed a deadline to reach a destination or check in with a specific cutoff date.
> 
> If I wanted a device to use for my OWN purposes to signal for a rescue and nothing else, I would carry a PLB. Some REAL PLB's nowadays do offer an "ok" message functionality and I might consider that to satisfy a nervous family member.


Why do you say the SPOT is a toy, but a PLB is not? The SPOT is certainly not marketed as a toy, but as an alternative emergency location device. And does a PLB really never fail?

Any of these devices can greatly improve the odds of being located, by a large factor. But any PLB or SPOT/InReach/Cerberus can fail for many reasons, human error (not securing well, insufficient battery), poor reception (in a canyon under trees), mechanical or electronics failure, or even because you've become incapacitated and can't hit the button (which is why an occasional "OK" button along your route is good).

As such, my feeling is that one should have more than one complementary method for backup purposes. In my opinion the primary safety mechanism is cheap and simple - a route with schedule and emergency numbers left with someone, my wife in my case. A SPOT or PLB is a good complimentary backup, which can help greatly in many emergencies, with much greater speed of response (no wait for a week until you don't show up before calling SAR), the potential to help other in a group in case of urgent emergencies in areas without other communication, and a more precise location so SAR can go right to you. In contrast, those without a SPOT/InReach/Cerberus or PLB often end up taking many days of SAR effort, even if they post a route.

As for SPOT/InReach/Cerberus versus PLB, I still think that is a matter of choice and value. You clearly have yours. All these devices are getting better with more features and better reliability, and new competitors are also making improved choices as well. We'll see where this goes. But they indeed have good value in one's emergency planning.

Finally, if one is really that far out of contact in completely desolate areas with no trails for such extended periods, a satellite phone may be yet another option which hasn't been discussed. I think they can be rented. Or as your friend did, a VHF radio may be good as an added backup.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

BigLarry said:


> Why do you say the SPOT is a toy, but a PLB is not? The SPOT is certainly not marketed as a toy, but as an alternative emergency location device. And does a PLB really never fail?


I think "Live Tracking" is essentially a toy function. Yes, it does transmit location. But it does not transmit the status of the person using the device like an "Ok" feature. And, if the device becomes separated from the person, all it's doing is showing where the person was so the use of "Live Tracking" for an emergency (or a perceived emergency) is limited.

As for PLB's failing, here's what I said about that:


> They're not infallible, either. I've read of a few situations of them failing, also...but from what I can tell, that's a lot more rare than SPOT failures.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

BigLarry said:


> How long did it take for the emergency response after you hit the button?


The SPOT call center called my list of numbers within five minutes. SAR was contacted a couple of minutes after that. It took the helicopter a couple of hours to arrive, but a couple of Rangers were there in about 1/2 hour.


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## Stormydog (Oct 25, 2012)

*Spot 2*

Hi

Sorry if I am hijacking this thread but as I have only just joined I cannot start a new thread.

I have a Spot 2 and wondered if anyone had experience of setting a route up in real time using tracker in Spot Adventure. I have worked out how to do it with shared page but cannot work out how to do it with Adventure, and the Spot website does not appear that intuitive.

Thanks for any help and hello to all

kind regards

John


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