# My Rohloff is slipping. HELP



## moose2008 (Sep 10, 2010)

I had a rohloff hub in a gary fisher rig and its worked flawlessly for the couple of years that I've ran it. My LBS has now moved the rohloff over from my rig into a surly pugsley. Since the switch the hubs gears seem to slip a lot. Sometimes they just won't engage and sometimes I'll be pedalling along and the gear will disengage. Please can anyone give me some suggestions for things that my LBS can try to resolve the problem so that I can advise them ( they have no experience with rohloffs .)
The shop have changed the oil with proper rohloff oil
They have changed all of the gear cables with new rohloff ones
They have really tensioned the chain.

Any advice
Thanks


----------



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

I'm going to bet money that you're missing one or both of these springs, and that they fell out when you bike shop adjusted the external shifter box orientation to fit the new frame. I bought a "broken" Speedhub for a song (+ shipping) and all it needed were these two little guys. Without them, the hub freewheels a lot, sort of like you're describing.


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

I agree with Speedhub Nate, although I believe to further narrow it down, if you were missing either or both of those freewheel springs, you would only experience the problem in gears 1 thru 7. Here is the backside of Nate's picture:







[/URL][/IMG]
Another thing I would look into is cable tension. It has been noted that too-tight of shift cables will allow the hub to "half-shift", or slight hand movements on the shifter during riding will be just enough to initiate a half-shift. Your twist grip shifter should have a moderate amount of play, and your cables entering the shift box should not feel snug either.

When removing the wheel from the bike, can you give the sprocket a quick turn by hand, and does it rotate freely, albeit for a short time?

Also of interest might be a couple Youtube clips I made when I took apart my hub a couple months ago:
Strip:
https://www.youtube.com/user/climbercraig66#p/a/u/1/lS6kj8g5On8
Build:
https://www.youtube.com/user/climbercraig66#p/a/u/0/Y-1iPbYra58


----------



## moose2008 (Sep 10, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. The hub does not only slip in gears 1 - 7, it definately slips in 13th and 14th gear.
Any other thoughts?


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

I am assuming it is a QR axle? I know Rohloff says that some of the bolt-on axles, if overtightened will cause bad shifts. Worth a try to back-off the QR tension.

Being that the hub worked fine for years, I am leaning in the direction of the install to the new bike being the culprit. Rohloff usually says that most hub malfunctions will occur early in the hubs life, and if you have made it past that point, you should be OK.

So how about some more specifics?

Mileage?
QR or threaded axle?
What gears specifically does it slip in?
Any specific situations? Does it only happen while climbing?

If it is only gears 13-14, I'd venture to say that one of the gear cables was cut too short and might be limiting the shift axle travel.

I know I have a heck of a time getting the cables set just right before trimming them to the right length.

And what does "They have really tensioned the chain" mean? Too much chain tension is bad news for everything drive-related, including the Rohloffs driver bearings.

First thing, and easiest to try, is you should remove the wheel, feel the sprockets rotational tightness, and whack the axle with a rubber mallet. This will ensure that everything is seated correctly, and may correct an alignment or axial distance problem.
Here is a better picture detailing the process;








[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## moose2008 (Sep 10, 2010)

It is a QR and I think that it is really tight. The shop originally fit the hub without chain tugs and so tightened the QR really tight. The bike now has chain tugs so could be slacker on the QR. They did tighten the chain really tight to stop the gears slipping, I didn't think this would make any difference and it never.
I don't know exactly which gears slip it seems random but definately 13 and 14. It's not only when climbing or under pressure, it will slip just when making a basic change with no pressure.
It will slip whilst pedalling, and when trying to change gear as well quite random.
I would say that on a 20 mile night ride on thursday it probably slipped about 20 times and I learned to avoid 13 and 14.
I am never stranded, I just can't always have the exact gear I want.
If you lift the rear wheel from the floor it is a little stiff to pedal the cranks around and the wheel dosen't seem to freewheel as long as it should.
Thanks again


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

Being that you describe it as being so widespread across all gears, I'd again lean towards something system-wide than just one thing not working right. Keep at it.

I would recommend (in this order) these top 3 things to look at:

1. Axle clamping tension = Ease up a bit. Loosen your chain while you're at it.
2. Attempt the mallet smacking technique, as detailed in the Rohloff illustration I posted.
3. Reinspect your shift cable for excess tension. Consider running new cables, and take care to do it exactly as listed in the instruction manual. 

And, try each one of these things seperately, so if it starts working right, you know what was wrong.


----------



## moose2008 (Sep 10, 2010)

Thanks very much, I'll forward this to my LBS to run through. 
Really appreciate it and I'm sure the shop will too.
If I get to the bottom of this I'll add to this post to give you the verdict
Thanks again


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

Another thing that I just thought of, is that Rohloff is very explicit about not disturbing the alignment of the gear that connects directly to the shifting shaft. So this theory plays off Nate's idea that, maybe the gear mech was removed or otherwise disturbed, and now all of your gear changes are screwed up due to that. In the manual, it says "5 out of 6 potential positions are not correct", meaning that there is alot of opportunity to screw this up. =) 
Good news is that it is easy enough to check. I scanned some images that you can take to the bike shop with you:







[/URL][/IMG]







[/URL][/IMG]







[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

These might be helpful also:







[/URL][/IMG]







[/URL][/IMG]







[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## moose2008 (Sep 10, 2010)

You are a true gent. Surely one of these will sort the job. you've been more helpful than the uk rohloff guy I've spoken to. I'll let you know how it pans out.
Cheers


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

No problem! Having a non-functional Rohloff is unacceptable! 

Hopefully the big-wigs at Rohloff stumble upon this message and propose that I serve as a Rohloff mechanic for the Americas and Canada. Working on Rohloffs (and getting paid)from the comfort of my garage would just about qualify for "dream-job" status.

But realistically, I guess it would be pretty slow business.

Anyway, hope one of those suggestions gets you sorted out. Looking forward to hearing your resolution.


----------



## luh3417 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks alot for this thread. I lost gears 3, 5,6, 12, 13 and 14 very suddenly for no apparent reason. My hub had done just over 5k and had had its first oil change about 2 months ago. It was running fine then lost those gears. The thing that fixed it was the rubber mallet. All good now and in fact the pedals that used to turn when the bike was walked have stopped turning. So I guess it was a running in thing Thanks for your detailed advice.


----------



## luh3417 (Dec 15, 2007)

PS. Spoke too soon. It has reverted to slipping again :-( Off to the repair shop. Is that hub-ris?


----------



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Any other changes to your setup besides the 5K oil change? Overfilling the oil can cause some sluggish engagement problems, though I'm not so certain all the problems you are experiencing. Did you refill it with no more than 20ml of oil after emptying and rinsing it?


----------



## luh3417 (Dec 15, 2007)

No other changes.I used the rohloff oil change kit and followed the instructions. I used all the oil in the plastic container they provided which I believed was the correct amount.


----------



## luh3417 (Dec 15, 2007)

PS The kit bottle was 25ml all season oil


----------



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Yeah, that was a crapshoot. Just odd you'd begin having troubles right after an oil change. I'd run down Craig's lists of problems / fixes before calling for service.


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

Hmm, sorry none of those ideas worked out. Well, there goes my dream job! 

So you say you did the mallet smack technique, and things were fine? For how many miles? Interesting that it seemed to work, and then quit working again.

And I can't think of any rhyme or reason for your particular gear slips i.e.

If gear 3 slips, so should gear 10
5 and 12 match up
as do
6 and 13
But, if 14 slips, so should 7
And if the Hi/Lo clutch engagements are holding fine for gears 1, 2, 4, 7 LOW and 8, 9, 10, 11 HIGH....... Then I am confused.

But hey, I will keep thinking about it, looking for a common link. In the meantime, good luck.


----------



## luh3417 (Dec 15, 2007)

It worked OK for about 5k. At one stage I had no gears at all. I tried the hammer again and it worked for about 10 meters. I will check again which gears it is and update.


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

Strange. You know I once heard about a shipment of hubs that fell off a cargo ship and sunk into the English Channel (or something to that effect), Long story short; Some saltwater-infused hubs made it to EBAY.... Whereabouts did you purchase your hub? (Yeah, I know this is a long-shot)

Your particular scenario is pretty baffling. I'd take that sucker apart and see what's-what. Just shift into gear 4 or 11 first, otherwise spring loaded pawls will come flying outta there.
See my Youtube video links in earlier posts of this thread. If you are comfortable with mechanical contraptions, it really isn't all that difficult. I'd rather take mine apart before shipping it to Germany, but you may think otherwise depending on your location.

Whatever ends up happening, keep us in the loop!


----------



## luh3417 (Dec 15, 2007)

I got it from a legit dealer in Australia. The slipping gears are 4,6,7,11,13 and 14. I will take it to my repair shop here in Sydney. They specialise in hubs. If they get stuck I will refer them to you!

Thanks again. Will keep you posted.


----------



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

That was years ago, maybe 2001 or prior, and it was supposedly a shipment of Storck carbon fiber bikes equipped with Speedhubs that dropped into the English Channel. The hubs began appearing on eBay, with hidden saltwater corrosion. At the time (and probably still), Rohloff tracked hubs by serial number, and a number of these saltwater-corroded hubs were showing up at Rohloff USA for warranty service even though their serial numbers were logged as European sales.


----------



## moose2008 (Sep 10, 2010)

Hi 
Moose again with an update.
I get my bike back tomorrow and from what I can gather the little springs mentioned above had been replaced, but with springs that would normally go in hope hubs. Now they have been replaced with proper rohloff ones and the shop tells me that over a fifteen minute test ride the gears never slipped once. I've heard this before and find that a proper off road ride is very different to a fifteen minute treck around town, no matter how much pressure you try and apply. Fingers crossed I'll be posting a success story tomorrow and not having to check the next thing on the list.


----------



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Wow, I'm surprised they were cognizant of their error AND admitted it. It's amazing that these two springs -- probably the least expensive components that go into this hub -- can hobble it.


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

Nate, thanks for setting the story straight on the salty speedhubs.

Moose, glad to hear things are looking up. I guess I will add that to my list of questions whenever someone has a problem similar to yours.
"Did your bike shop remove or loose the freewheel springs, and replace them with Hope Hub springs?" 
Interesting stuff. I wonder if the springs were tough enough to force the gear 1-7 clutch ring into the works or more specifically, it was forcing the clutch ring against the spacer, which pushed on the spacers shift pin, which actually caused the shift axle to twist and initiate half-shifts. Boy, that would be a first. I can't decipher the effects of having both the 1-7 clutch and the 8-14 clutch, both engaged at the same time (besides the 7-8 gear shift effect), but I guess the shift shaft being incrementally moved would be enough to start some half-shifts, and some of those double-clutch gear combos might enable a neutral output, or freewheeling. Looking forward to your update.

luh3417, that is actually good news, (and makes more sense) because your slipping low gears (4-6-7) are an exact mirror image of your slipping high gears (11-13-14). So now we can eliminate possible causes like the final reduction/drive output gearset (since it happens equally in hi/lo gears) the four shift pawls embedded in the axle shaft (because it happens in gears 4 and 11 which use no pawls) and the second clutch ring (the one inside the largest sun gear). 
From everything you have said, the common denominator is the clutch ring/spring on the sprocket side of the hub. This is the only component/area that is reliant on every slipping gear you have mentioned. 
So, some things to look at once the gearset is removed from the hub shell: (Be sure it is shifted to gear 4 before removal)
1. Is the axle nut firmly fastened?
2. Are the sprocket driver male splines correctly mated into ring gear 1 female splines?
3. (After removing axle nut and sprocket driver) Is the clutch spring present and undamaged?
4. Remove the clutch ring and inspect the clutch teeth for damage. Also look at the corresponding clutch teeth on the first visible sun gear. Do not remove that sun gear.
5. Is the shift collar -AND- its pin in place?
6. Can you slide the shift collar up and down the axle, or is it locked in place and only able to slide a short distance? It should be locked.

Don't remove anything else unless you know how to re-time the planet gears! Also, be aware that once the axle nut is removed, the hub will fall apart/out of timing if leaned over or dropped.
I expect you should find the problem somewhere within the steps above. It sounds like you are loosing the ability to shift ring gear 1 into a 1:1 ratio with the first two sun gears, which it needs for gears 4-6-7-11-13-14 to function correctly. All other gears (1-2-3-5-8-9-10-12) do not need ring gear 1 to lock 1:1, but instead rely on the axle shift pawls, or the locking of ring gear 2 into a 1:1 ratio.


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

To clear up my last post:

Keeping ring gear 1 in a 1:1 ratio (which is what your hub is NOT doing) relies entirely on spring pressure from the clutch spring. Releasing ring gear 1 from 1:1 relies entirely on the shifting collar/pin and it's relation to the shifting shaft. Your other functional gears are proof that the shift collar is performing as it should be, and it is successfully disengaging ring gear 1 from 1:1.

So, if I am understanding myself correctly, you either have a broken clutch spring, or your clutch ring and/or sun gear teeth are damaged or contaminated with sludge/grit that is preventing full engagement. 

That, or you have a distance problem, meaning your driver is not fully seated into the splines, or you need a thicker or thinner shim set. If this is the case, I can't help at all, since every hub has a unique thickness and arrangement of shims and spacers that ensure proper operation.

Either way, best of luck and I hope you get sorted quickly.


----------



## UncleRobin (Dec 28, 2009)

Here is a link to a thread in which I was having a very similar problem:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=622009

End result; it went back to Rohloff service and got new internals.

UR


----------



## mbloes (Dec 8, 2008)

Bottom line, this is a known shortcoming of the hub experienced by enough owners to warrant serious consideration by Rohloff. I think it is shameful for Rohloff not to address this when it is so well documented. And I don't think your basic consumer should have to jump through the mechanical hoops documented above to get his hub working properly.

Ancecdotally, I have had the same problems through two internal sets: freewheeling, slipping out of gear, not fully engaged. I love my hub and have made an uneasy peace with it. But I would still like the complete peace of mind that comes with a fully engineered product, free from the current uneasiness that resides in the back of my head every time I go for a ride.


----------



## moose2008 (Sep 10, 2010)

Update

Started OK but a couple of hours into the ride 10th and 14th gear are definately slipping and at least one of the lower ones.


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

@Speedhub Nate: Just for my own understanding, how exactly did your hub behave w/o the two springs? Was all the slipping limited to gears 1-7? 

@UncleRobin: Thanks for the post; I remember reading about that, and it is a good refresher for other things I may not have thought about i.e. tight tolerances being worn down, temperature issues etc. Do you happen to remember the temperature range that was giving you a good hub vs. bad hub? And, how is the new hub since the replacement? The post by "Pipe" about not being able to score service parts makes me wary. Granted, I hope to never need internal parts, but if I do need them, I hope I have an easier time aquiring them.

@Mbloes: I am in full agreement. For the price paid, we should all be living the Rohloff dream of a lifetime, troublefree gearbox. Sounds like Rohloff could use some more staffing in the Research and Development, Quality Assurance and Service Depts. 

And finally, @Moose: Sorry to hear things didn't work out. What is your next step? Your problem seems like it's a bit harder to nail down. 

Uncle Robins temperature issue really has me thinking. While taking apart my hub, I marveled at the precision machining and part fit, but everything seemed to have enough play that any reasonable thermal expansion or contraction would not cause any issue. But, if such is the case, another thing I noticed is that the clutch spring on the sprocket-side of the hub is not very strong, so it would not take much to upset the clutch from mating correctly with the first sun gear. 

Another test worth trying (if anyone currently has their hub apart and is experiencing 4-6-7-11-13-14 slips) is to remove the driver and the clutch spring and clutch ring. Stand the driver up on end, drop the spring into the driver, and drop the clutch ring on top of the spring. Cycle the externally splined clutch ring up and down inside the internally splined driver, and see that it travels freely. Then subject the assembly to heat (hairdryer?), test again, then subject to the freezer, and test again. Any difference due to expansion or contraction of the metal? 
Also, if shifted into gear 4 (and the sprocket, axle nut, driver, clutch spring and first ring gear are removed) you should be able to check and see that the clutch ring is being allowed to sit, fully engaged on the first sun gear. Assuming it is, next I would see that, when reinstalling the driver, the male splines of the driver fit into the female splines of the ring gear, and the external splines of the clutch ring are being fully engaged to the internal splines of the driver. Both engagements are essential for 4-6-7-11-13-14 operation.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

A friend purchased a used hub off Ebay (newer laser inscribed model). Every once in a while usually under heavy power it seems it will make a single pop sound almost like a loud ping (tuning forkish). It appears to happen in gear 7 but he is not 100% sure of that at this point. He pedals rite through. 

Ive check his cable tension and there is plenty of play.


----------



## UncleRobin (Dec 28, 2009)

Climbercraig66 said:


> @UncleRobin: Thanks for the post; I remember reading about that, and it is a good refresher for other things I may not have thought about i.e. tight tolerances being worn down, temperature issues etc. Do you happen to remember the temperature range that was giving you a good hub vs. bad hub? And, how is the new hub since the replacement? ...
> 
> Uncle Robins temperature issue really has me thinking. While taking apart my hub, I marveled at the precision machining and part fit, but everything seemed to have enough play that any reasonable thermal expansion or contraction would not cause any issue. But, if such is the case, another thing I noticed is that the clutch spring on the sprocket-side of the hub is not very strong, so it would not take much to upset the clutch from mating correctly with the first sun gear. ...


What I remember temps above the 80sF or high 20sC the hub started skipping. Lower temps and all was well. One odd thing, it didn't skip under heavy pedal pressure, only light pedaling.

Once I got the hub back with new internals, I only had a few hot days to check it and it appeared to be cured. However another issue seems to have cropped up with the heat, a squeak. At first I thought it was the chain or BB. Nope definitely in the hub (it would do it off the bike by turning the cog, even in gear 11) and only when hot. Since Fall and Winter, not a peep.

My way under-educated guess is, these hubs have a small window for tolerances and thermal expansion or contraction can be an issue if at one side or the other of the tolerance window.

Also it is a known issue about cold weather (< -15C) free-wheeling related to oil viscosity.

UR


----------



## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

Whenever my rohloff misbehaved it was usually the cables.I miss my rohloff,i got it for my dh bike at a time when i broke alot of deraileurs.The Rohloff used to fixy,pedals going around while coasting,it would slacken the chain on top. Rohloff rebuilt t with lower friction seals,but while it was away i went back to a regular deraileur system and i liked the way the suspension worked without the heavy hub.I decided to wait for another deraileur failure to put the roloff back on.Well i went the whole season and then some , and just ebayed the rohloff for roughly what i got it for.By now it would be on my old klien singlespeed with studded tires as the ultimate snow bike.


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

UncleRobin said:


> What I remember temps above the 80sF or high 20sC the hub started skipping. Lower temps and all was well. One odd thing, it didn't skip under heavy pedal pressure, only light pedaling.
> 
> Once I got the hub back with new internals, I only had a few hot days to check it and it appeared to be cured. However another issue seems to have cropped up with the heat, a squeak. At first I thought it was the chain or BB. Nope definitely in the hub (it would do it off the bike by turning the cog, even in gear 11) and only when hot. Since Fall and Winter, not a peep.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the specifics. I'm bummed to hear about all these Rohloff issues, and would be really let down if any of these things started happening on my hub. This is exactly the kind of poor performance that I was trying to get away from when I bought the hub in the first place.

If all these failures are temperature/tolerance related, then I am perhaps in a bit over my head and can't offer much help to anyone.

But if it does happen to me, rest assured I'll write a geeky, detailed report for you all to enjoy.

Hopefully luh3417 pulls through with a success story..........


----------



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

For what it's worth:

- I've now owned 6 Speedhubs, ranging in manufacture dates from 2001 to current day, and across the spectrum of brand new to well used. They've done duty on my bikes, my wife's bike (she can be an abusive shifter), and on our mountain tandem (wanna talk about grinding shifts?), and just recently a 'round town cargo bike, and I've yet to experience any mechanical problems short of the external shifter box detaching and ending up in the spokes, and the inaugural tandem ride where I forgot to tighten the axle nuts.

- I'm hoping my trouble free experience represents the norm, and these reports of the slipping gears is a bit of a fluke. I'll email a link to this thread to Neil over at Cycle Monkey; hopefully he can chime in with his observations since I believe he performs warranty service for Speedhubs in the US.

- Craig, in answer to your question about my missing springs, I bought the hub knowing it was "broken" and this was the first item I checked. Never got a ride on it without both springs installed.


----------



## suba (Jun 25, 2009)

Mine has worked flawlessly under any conditions. Does anyone care to take a guess...with respect to possible spring fatigue. For long term storage, or if the bike won't be used for several months, is there a certain gear that would compress the springs the least. 

In other words, if I wanted to mitigate the possibility of spring fatigue, is there a preferable gear to leave it in ?


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

Suba, I suppose that gears 4-6-7-11-13-14 would be your best bet, since these gears allow the spring to be in its most relaxed (extended) position. All other gears would be compressing the spring as to disengage the clutch ring.

Realistically though, I would not even give this any thought. The length of compression and the forces on the spring are really pretty insignificant. 

Leave it parked in whatever gear you see fit, and enjoy the hassle free life that this hub is so well known for.

I am always troubled by the occasional report of a non-functional Rohloff, but find relief in the 100,000+ hubs that you never hear anything about.


----------



## estutjaweh (Jan 3, 2008)

What I'd really like to know is:

If problems with a hub are detailled and discussed here in a forum instead of with a mechanic at the bike shop, or via an Email with the manufacturer, then you cant really blame Rohloff as they have no knowledge of the issue at this point. A manufacturer can only correct a mistake once they are aware it exists and generally through all documentation, its seems as if Rohloff find solutions and correct all issues for no more than the postage cost 'to them'....and this even when the hub is waaaay out of warranty.

Granted there are problems, but nothing is perfect and this sort of service is second to none in any industry, yet alone a low profit sector such as the bike industry.

With regards to the shifting problems:
Geas 4,6,7,11,13, and 14 involve sliding elements moving. Over torquing axles can hinder movement, too much penetrated moisture (river crossings, power wash cleaning) cause plastic parts to swell also hindering movement. Too little oil, old oil or incorrect oil can amplify the amount of problems that water can cause. etc etc. Shifting under force in the same manner as a derailleur system will cause excess resistence for these particular gear changes.
In truth, there are so many variables that an exact diagnosis based alone on a few details is not possible and thus all discussion here in this or any other forum is a waste of time and will inevitably be misunderstood as a product failure as opposed to a 'possible' user failure. 

Contact Rohloff US or EU direct and save time and frustration. Answers come quickly and generally all problems can be resolved.


----------



## suba (Jun 25, 2009)

Very well said. If someone has a problem with their Rohloff or components why not contact the manufacturer instead of posting on forums. I fail to see the reasoning other then generally to punish the manufacturer by hurting potential future sales.

It'a my opinion that generally people who post problems with Rohloff's are not the original owners. They have no idea how the previous owner(s) treated the hub. Then when they have a problem they feel slighted, and complain looking for answers on forums, instead of sending the hub in for service because they were either too cheap or didn't have the foresight to realize buying something as expensive as a Rohloff is better buying new,or not buying at all. 

I'm thankful someone had the courage and skills to develop and market something as complicated as Rohloff did. It's a great hub, but not indestructible. If you ride it through deep water you will probably have a problem. If you abuse it you will probably have a problem. Use common sense, and it will probably last two lifetimes. 

I had the common sense to justify buying new, and if I couldn't justify the price over long term use, I would have stayed with my XO set-up. I was every happy with it, but very glad I bought my Rohloff sight unseen, and never rode one before. I took a calculated chance based on all the positive information posted throughout the web. Rohloff is the best upgrade on my bike, and it will always be the best upgrade bar none.


----------



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

I disagree on a number of counts.

Used v. new -- everyone should know the risk they run when they purchase anything used, and that's the trade off for a good price. "Too cheap?" "Lacking foresight?" That's just talking stupid and being unnecessarily insulting. You're making a ton of assumptions.

Going to the manufacturer and avoiding user forums with a wealth of experience to share? That's so anti progress, I can't imagine why this would seem like a good idea to anybody. Public forums like this (or before the internet, user groups and clubs) are a great way to discover problems that may be trending, and leverage pressure on a manufacturer to recognize a problem and correct it. 

Despite never having trouble with my hub, I learned about the missing springs from forum posts. I learned about cracked flanges. I learned about the bad batch of axles that were causing trouble. I learned of the broken chainstays and seatstays some frames were experiencing. 

But I also learned that the Speedhub is very, very reliable. I learned that Rohloff recognizes problems and responds to them, making the hub better in incremental ways. You're assuming folks can't think for themselves and will gravitate towards the negative posts. Sure, those will get a disproportionate share of attention, but everything is relative and the number of problems reported for by Speedhub owners is terribly underwhelming compared to other bicycle parts.

Yes, reporting problems to the manufacturer is a prudent step. But don't think you'd be doing anyone any favors by sweeping this stuff under the rug and enforcing this thuggy "hush hush" mentality on the forums. It sounds like you,and then by extension Rohloff, have something to hide. Honest, open discussions are probably the best marketing tool any small company has at its disposal.


----------



## suba (Jun 25, 2009)

Not talking about this thread of OP. This is a good thread. I'm all for the exchange of ideas, but tired of the few vocal's who bash Rohloff. No hush hush mentality with me. There's a difference between honest discussions and willful smearing the reputation of a company.

Yah, not all people are too cheap to buy new, but some are, and they are the one's it seems who badmouth Rohloff because they've got a problem, and their too cheap to send it in for service. They'd rather complain on forums instead.


----------



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

For what it's worth, two (and a half) of my Speedhubs I bought used. 

One I bought directly from Thomas at Rohloff USA. It was a low serial number, I'm sure it has some miles on it, but I assumed it was properly cared for being from his shop. It was, in fact, the worst one I've owned, only that it felt a little sloppy shifting and was noisy in a weird way. I've since sold it to some bloke in the UK and I hope it's working well for him.

The second was the one with the missing springs. I have no idea how many miles were on it, and I have no doubt it hadn't been well taken care of given all the dog hair and muck covering it. But it was a hell of a deal, it was broken in when I got it, and it has been the quietest and most well mannered of the Speedhubs I've owned.

The other came pre-built in a wheel from Alex at MTB Tandems and I think was more or less new, but I'm sure had a test ride or two on it. But, being practically new, it was still notchy and needed to go through the whole break in process. I don't really consider it "used."

My point in all this is that of the Speedhubs I've owned, the used one from the sketchiest source has been my favorite. So rippin' on somebody for saving $800 (or $600 or $400) isn't factoring in how much value *can* be had in a used hub. Though I'm in total agreement with you that *****ing about Rohloff after the fact -- if the purchase turned out to be a burn -- isn't too cool... but I haven't seen too much of that.


----------



## suba (Jun 25, 2009)

You're an exception around here, in that you know a great deal about Rohloff, and you're knowledgable enough to buy used. Preowned is great as long as someone know's what their getting into, and doesn't cry when things don't go their way. You do the former, but not the latter. 

On the other hand, I had no experience with Rohloff, and will only have one in my lifetime. I couldn't take a chance buying used. It was tough forking out over $2000 for a laced hub and wheel on something I've never seen, but it paid off for me. It was a good move that keeps on giving long after the pain of spending the money was over.

There really are very few people here who bash Rohloff. I figure it's either a personal grudge, or some people bash them and have never even seen one ( go figure that ) Not sure how I got so involved in this thread. It's an honest thread with a lot of good information. Anyway, no worries here. I've learned a lot here about how to care for my hub, and have learned what potential problems might arise in the future, and how to possibly mitigate those issues. 

It's all good...and hope everyone enjoy your hubs.


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

Why would we not openly exchange ideas and possible solutions? The company pays folks to manage its public image, folks to run quality checks etc. etc. I paid the price for an outstanding product, and that is what I got. I feel bad for the folks that are having issues after paying so much money, and if I can tell them something that they might not possibly know (and they appreciate it) then what is the harm in that? Some people like to take on troubleshooting such challenges on their own. I know shipping a wheel to Germany is not the first thing I am going to try if I ever have issues with my hub.

To try and silence all this exchanging of relevant and important information seems really backwards and counter-productive. As consumers, we have a right to dissect and discuss. If it makes the company look bad, that is an unfortunate consequence, but also a business reality that any business owner must be able to accept. Some people will slander, some will wrongly accuse. Such is life, be it a manufactured product or personal relationships.

I guess the thing that set me off was the "waste of time" comment. I would accept such a statement if I was getting paid for my volunteer work, but I don't do this for fun, nor do I do it to make Rohloff look bad. I don't want a medal, an award or even any praise.... Just wanna get another Speedhub back on the trails or road where it belongs.

I'd consider myself a fairly knowledgeable user, and everything I learned was either thru my own ownership or via shared information over the internet. I think it would be unfortunate to prevent others from having access to that same shared information.


----------



## suba (Jun 25, 2009)

Climbercraig66 said:


> I totally disagree w/ your post (even though you "waste your time" offering your own list of possible malfunction causes). Also disagree with Subas, as buying such an expensive item, sight unseen or not even demo'd, is equally (if not more) foolish than buying a second-hand hub. Imagine if things hadn't worked out for you..... You could have been the next Rohloff Basher. You cast a mighty wide net with all your assumptions and stereotypes. Don't be surprised if you get tripped up in it.
> 
> Why would we not openly exchange ideas and possible solutions? The company pays folks to manage its public image, folks to run quality checks etc. etc. I paid the price for an outstanding product, and that is what I got. I feel bad for the folks that are having issues, and if I can tell them something that they might not possibly know (and they appreciate it) then what is the harm in that? Some people like to take on troubleshooting such challenges on their own. I know shipping a wheel to Germany is NOT the first thing I am going to try if I ever have issues with my hub.
> 
> ...


I think you've gone off the deep end with your rant. Maybe you feel better now. As for suggesting it was more foolish of me buying a new Rohloff sight unseen and never demo'd than buying a used hub, and had it not worked out I could have been the next Rohloff basher, you're making a lot of meritless statements.

First of all, I had no way to demo a hub. Second. I wasn't about to go looking for a used hub that someone else was very likely dumping because of a problem. Then it would be my problem. I'm just too smart for that game. Third. I do my homework. I researched the hubs for six months or more, then contacted Cycle Monkey when I knew enough to have an intelligent conversation to put in an order.

It wasn't a question of the hub working alright, but more about the perceived noise and grinding in gears 7-8, and the drag that some people said they didn't like, which for me turned out a total non issue. My understanding was that you either love the hub, or hate it. Most loved it, so I went with the majority opinion. Had I not loved it, I could recoup most of my money selling it especially because it was new. Buying used in my case would have been foolish. Buying new was smart.

If you like spending your time tearing apart speed hubs and posting self help on the internet have at it. I have better things to do with my time. If I ever have a problem, the wheel goes off to Cycle Monkey or another authorized repair shop. Did I mention I bought new, and have a warrantee.

As far as you're statements about Rohloff pride and feeing threatened. I don't know where you're coming from. Rohloff makes a unique and valuable product that has enhanced my riding experience many times over. I dismissed the bashers and negative people when I researched the hub, because some people no matter how hard they try, they screw things up, and blame anyone but themselves.

Buying a Rohloff sight unseen is no different than when I bought my Phil square taper BB, or my Middleburn cranks, or my Penthouse Flats, or my Magura Gustav's, or even my Lupine Betty. It's no different than the custom Phil front hub that I just ordered yesterday. I do my homework, make an informed buying decision, and walk away a winner....not a whiner.


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

You're right. My response was a little too sharp, and a little too personal. I apologize for that, to both you and estutjaweh. My intent was to challenge what I interpreted as squashing of idea sharing and collaborative problem solving. In the end, some folks like to work on things themselves, and some like to have that work be performed by an authorized entity. Neither way is wrong. 

I do enjoy tinkering with my hub, and I enjoy helping folks out when I can. I do not necessarily like spending my free time spouting off on the internet, sending suggestions and trying to fix everyones problems, but if the situation arises, I will try to lend assistance. Rohloff users are a small percentage of cyclists overall, so I do feel a bit of brotherhood or community, if you will. 

I still disagree with your blanket statements, as I interpret them to say that anyone who buys a Rohloff second hand, is either stupid, cheap, lazy or lacking common sense. Sorry if I am not reading it correctly. The fact of the matter is, you could be doomed when you buy the hub used, or you could be doomed several years down the road when your new hub warranty runs out and you start having problems. Either way, the mechanisms involved are for the most part, more than most folks would want to attempt and repair themselves anyway. But those who do, and who share that information, are doing a worthy service to others whom suffer the same issue, especially if it is something that can be fixed at home.

All in all though, I guess my point is this: I see no harm in potentially saving someone from postage costs to Germany and downtime off the bike. I am by no means an expert, and I learn something too when I try to help someone troubleshoot their problem, and I think it's great that all this accumulated information is available to those seeking it. And even if it is the case that some people shouldn't be messing with their hub, or some people just won't understand and will shift blame where it does not belong, such is the way of the world. You could apply that way of thinking to just about anything. But these people we talk about should not govern or restrict what the rest of us have access to.

Either way, glad you are enjoying your hub as much as I am, and neither of us (and the majority of Speedhub users) are having anything but awesome rides. I'll tone down my earlier post to a less personal, more idea-based manner. Sorry I didn't make that distinction earlier.


----------



## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

Question to the OP and sorry if I missed it:

When your LBS transfered your hub from one bike to the other , have they opened it in some way ? 

If they changed the angle of the shift box , it means that they opened it in some way.


I've worked in bike shop and seen stories ....


----------



## moose2008 (Sep 10, 2010)

An overdue update.
My Rohloff had to be returned to Germany. It has come back and is working perfectly. Everything was done free of charge even though the hub was a good few years old, so no complaints there. Unfortunately there was no real diagnosis so I am non the wiser and can't post what the problem actually was.
A massive thanks though to all who helped and advised me.
Moose.


----------



## luh3417 (Dec 15, 2007)

luh3417 said:


> I got it from a legit dealer in Australia. The slipping gears are 4,6,7,11,13 and 14. I will take it to my repair shop here in Sydney. They specialise in hubs. If they get stuck I will refer them to you!
> 
> Thanks again. Will keep you posted.


Got my hub back. It went to Rohloff agents in Australia who said it was the timing and may have been a fault that got worse with running in or maybe the tension on the wheel nuts. I was pretty careful with not over tightening the wheel nuts so I think it was a factory thing. All seems good now and I may just get a torque wrench for good measure.


----------



## UncleRobin (Dec 28, 2009)

*It's Back*

Had the first really warm couple of days since fall & winter and the slip / skip in 4,6,7,11,13, &14 reappeared. Today was a cool day and there was no slip. Headed back to the man-cave and put the bike in the stand and proceeded to heat the hub with a heat gun. Went back out for a ride and lo and behold, the slip returned. As the hub cooled down, the slip went away. First it faded from the upper gears, then the lower gears.

The last couple of warm days are probably some of the warmest the hub has seen since it came back from being repaired (Neil from Cycle Monkey put new guts in the hub last September) for this issue last year. It sure looks to me to be temperature related. It is happy as long as it is cool.

At this point I haven't really decided what do other than probably contact Neil and see what he thinks. Anyway I just wanted to report in.

UR


----------



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Please keep us updated -- I'm curious what the prognosis is. I know these hubs have suffered through some killer heat an various cross-continental tours they've been subjected to, so find it baffling that two sets of innards you've ended up with are displaying this same problem. I wonder, could it somehow be related to a defect in the shell? Or something specific to the way it's being mounted in your frame? So random...


----------



## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

estutjaweh said:


> What I'd really like to know is:
> 
> If problems with a hub are detailled and discussed here in a forum instead of with a mechanic at the bike shop, or via an Email with the manufacturer, then you cant really blame Rohloff as they have no knowledge of the issue at this point. A manufacturer can only correct a mistake once they are aware it exists and generally through all documentation, its seems as if Rohloff find solutions and correct all issues for no more than the postage cost 'to them'....and this even when the hub is waaaay out of warranty.


I can assure you, when my Rohloff, which had 700 documented miles on it, and started slipping at 450 miles, had shifting problems and slipping in 3rd and 4th gears, when I sent it to Rohloff, I got a nice fat bill for the service, plus shipping. It was a defective axle, the subcontractor grinding the shifting flats on the axle had quality control problems. I don't remember if it was Thomas or Neil that serviced it, but I was sent an email from Neil, stating that the hub he pulled out looked brand spanking new, it was nowhere near broken in or smooth in the lower gears.

That was enough to convince me to sell mine off. It was a very expensive experiment, with mine slipping at a very critical switchback with exposure and severe, near fatal penalty for failure. Slipping sent me over the bars, crashing, while standing and mashing. Not acceptable. I could never trust the hub after that moment. 
What was installed was a used, remanufactured set of guts. Not new, which is what I bought, and was removed, a near new hub and priced accordingly.


----------



## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

Luh and Moose: Glad to hear you are both sorted. That sucks that they didn't give you any helpful information on the issue they repaired. Were either of your hubs temperature-sensitive before being repaired? I notice that your slipping gear #s are similar to Uncle Robins.

Uncle Robin, your problem is a real head-scratcher...... The only thing that would seem to make sense is an oil viscosity issue. I lean towards dismissing parts expansion since my experience is that Rohloffs are tight, but they aren't THAT tight.

Can you post a description or picture of your bike and hub setup? What kind of heat application did you use, and about how hot did you get it to repeat the symptoms? And I think I asked this before, but what riding temperatures make a good hub or a slipping hub?

Assuming I don't have to torch the stickers off my hub, I'd be willing to replicate your test on my hub and compare results.


----------



## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

estutjaweh said:


> If problems with a hub are detailled and discussed here in a forum instead of with a mechanic at the bike shop, or via an Email with the manufacturer, then you cant really blame Rohloff as they have no knowledge of the issue at this point. A manufacturer can only correct a mistake once they are aware it exists and generally through all documentation, its seems as if Rohloff find solutions and correct all issues for no more than the postage cost 'to them'....and this even when the hub is waaaay out of warranty.
> 
> Granted there are problems, but nothing is perfect and this sort of service is second to none in any industry, yet alone a low profit sector such as the bike industry.


Rohloff hubs are too fragile and too sensitive to too many variables. Too cold, thin the gear oil, too hot, it slips in gear, too salty, it corrodes, too small a front ring gear, it stresses the gear box, too loose an axle tolerance and it slips out of gear explosively. Too, too, too.... as in too many excuses, too expensive to work on, by factory personnel only, no spare parts available, and too many failures. Then there is another example of the whole unit having to be sent back to Germany to get it corrected. This is typical of German products during the last 30 years, including new VW TDI Jetta's and Golf's from 2009 on, having catastrophic High pressure fuel pump failures made by Bosch, where VW made a bean counter decision to go cheap with the pump from Bosch, and it destroys/grenades the whole fuel system and everything down stream in the fuel lines and fuel tanks.

German engineers design product with no consideration for service requirements at all, more as an after thought. Try adding gear oil through the speedometer sensor fitting, after removing the speedo sensor, because there is no filler hole on top.


----------



## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

suba said:


> You're an exception around here, in that you know a great deal about Rohloff, and you're knowledgable enough to buy used. Preowned is great as long as someone know's what their getting into, and doesn't cry when things don't go their way. You do the former, but not the latter.
> 
> On the other hand, I had no experience with Rohloff, and will only have one in my lifetime. I couldn't take a chance buying used. It was tough forking out over $2000 for a laced hub and wheel on something I've never seen, but it paid off for me. It was a good move that keeps on giving long after the pain of spending the money was over.
> 
> ...


You should see the VW TDI's I've picked up, for under what you paid for your wheel, and still got another 50,000 miles out of them, at 50 + MPG. I can work on anything, as long as there are spare parts available without paying stupid money for the parts. Boat motors, transmissions, clutches, rebuilt injector pumps myself, turbo diesel motors, turbochargers too.

Try getting spare parts here in the USA for a Rohloff. They will tell you that is not an option.

When Neil emails me that the gearbox pulled out of my hub looks brand spanking new, and the previous owner could count the number of trips to Whistler on that hub, and the miles per day, I'd say I knew quite well, that I'd bought a very new, very limited use hub, with a known mileage. It was one of those turkeys that Rohloff let get out, because of inadequate quality control on their end, accepting axle parts from a vendor the sub contracted with, and not measuring and QC'ing the parts the vendor supplied.

I am beginning to think that German standards consider a 2 to 3% failure rate quite acceptable, well within their normal standards. I see this a lot on german car companies too.


----------



## suba (Jun 25, 2009)

RandyBoy said:


> You should see the VW TDI's I've picked up, for under what you paid for your wheel, and still got another 50,000 miles out of them, at 50 + MPG. I can work on anything, as long as there are spare parts available without paying stupid money for the parts. Boat motors, transmissions, clutches, rebuilt injector pumps myself, turbo diesel motors, turbochargers too.
> 
> Try getting spare parts here in the USA for a Rohloff. They will tell you that is not an option.
> 
> ...


Give it a rest.  No matter how many times you tell your story of woe, my Rohloff somehow manages to work flawlessly  Your problem is you took a chance buying a used hub and lost. That's what karma does sometimes. Why don't you try sucking it up, and consider it a learning experience instead of continually spreading bad vibes. You bought a used hub on ebay. It turned out to be a bad move. Move on man. Grow up, and be thankful for all the blessing that you do have in your life :thumbsup:


----------



## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

suba said:


> Give it a rest.  No matter how many times you tell your story of woe, my Rohloff somehow manages to work flawlessly  Your problem is you took a chance buying a used hub and lost. That's what karma does sometimes. Why don't you try sucking it up, and consider it a learning experience instead of continually spreading bad vibes. You bought a used hub on ebay. It turned out to be a bad move. Move on man. Grow up, and be thankful for all the blessing that you do have in your life :thumbsup:


I wish to point out the German business mindset, the arrogance of German engineers, and how they do business.

Try buying a 25 to $50k german Audi or VW with a Bosch High Pressure Fuel pump that fails, spreads shrapnel throughout the whole fuel system, and costs $7,000 to $16,000 to replace the whole fuel system, then you blame all the problems on customers misfueling. Let this go on from April 2008, note that it is still going on with current 2011 production, that NHSTA has gotten involved, that BMW has done the same sh*t until they got called on by ABC Nighlty News it and issued a recall, finally.

The buck finally stops when a class action lawsuit was filed. This is exactly how German companies act.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2011/EA/INRD-EA11003-45604P.pdf

Start around page 318 for the lawsuit being filed, and then read each case, and how VW tries to blame some for misuse or misfueling. This is a problem on Audi Q7 TDI's , A3 TDI's, and VW 3.0 TDI Touaregs, as well as Jetta, Golf, and Sportwagens.

The situation is the same, deny, deny, deny, until your azz ends up in court. Running a steel piston in an Aluminum bore to pressurize fuel to 28,000 psi in a common rail is so retarded, it's designed failure. That the pump grenades and wipes out everything down stream, rail, injectors, fuel tank, fuel lines, 3 fuel pumps and it costs 1/3 to 1/2 what the car is worth in 2 or 3 years is pathetic, what will happen when the car is 6 or 10 years old and it's out of warranty and grenades again. The repair costs more than the car is worth. Diesels are designed to go 300,000 miles, minimum, 400,000 if very well maintained, by the book. It has happened, folks have lost 2 pumps in under 60,000 miles.

It's easy for you to sit there in denial, being that your Rohloff hasn't failed yet. It's another when you have the experience of yours having failed and you go over the bars on a steep narrow single track when it misses a shift while standing and mashing on a trail with severe penalty for failure. I don't mind being in the minority and educating folks in the potential pitfalls of owning a Rohloff. You can not discount my personal experience, because it is a fact, as was brontotx's issue. He also got a bum hub back from Rohloff too, trying to get it fixed.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=3049482#poststop

So keep on sweeping it under the rug, and deny, deny, deny. Some us out there know the facts and have real world experience with the failures of Rohloff Hubs. Most will probably get a perfectly good Rohloff hub, but some will not, and those some should also be heard here on MTBR.


----------



## suba (Jun 25, 2009)

RandyBoy said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=3049482#poststop
> .


Glad you pointed that thread out. Personally I would have been too embarrassed to do that. 
It was hard getting through all you're rants but I make it. I'm guessing you have good healthcare as you'll need it when you have a stroke or heart attack. Heck, stress can even cause cancer. Hope nothing runs in your family.

Why stop now eh ? Keep the bashing and ranting going. Why not start a new thread about what a piece of crap Rohloff's are, and they are ALL doomed to fail soon if not sooner. Go ahead, make my day :thumbsup:


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Loved my AUDI Allroad, hands down the best car Ive ever owned out of many. 

Just changed my oil on my flawless running Rohloff, ah life is good.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

RandyBoy said:


> I can assure you, when my Rohloff, which had 700 documented miles on it, and started slipping at 450 miles, had shifting problems and slipping in 3rd and 4th gears, when I sent it to Rohloff, I got a nice fat bill for the service, plus shipping.


You got a bill because you bought that hub used off Ebay which voids the warranty. If you had bought it new you wouldn't have been charged. It was your fault you bought a broken hub.

If you want to save $$ buying used you have to accept the risks. If not buy new and get the warranty protection.

The result would be the same if you bought a $2K computer used from Ebay or another product. Most warranties are not transferable to a 2nd owner.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mbloes said:


> Bottom line, this is a known shortcoming of the hub experienced by enough owners to warrant serious consideration by Rohloff. I think it is shameful for Rohloff not to address this when it is so well documented. And I don't think your basic consumer should have to jump through the mechanical hoops documented above to get his hub working properly.
> 
> Ancecdotally, I have had the same problems through two internal sets: freewheeling, slipping out of gear, not fully engaged. I love my hub and have made an uneasy peace with it. But I would still like the complete peace of mind that comes with a fully engineered product, free from the current uneasiness that resides in the back of my head every time I go for a ride.


There is no product sold today that does not have some failures. None.

So the question is how much more would you pay to reduce the likelihood of a failure? Rohloff has done the cost/benefit analysis and settled on what they consider reasonable. Thorn, who sells a lot of Rohloffs, quotes a failure rate of ~1%.

You can certainly reduce the rate further, but it will add to the cost of the hub. Either through more expensive parts sourcing & assembly procedures or extensive QC of the hubs like putting each one on a machine and simulating 5K of riding.

Would you pay an extra $300 go from 1% failure rate to 0.5% or 0.25%?

This is a common decision any manufacturer has to make. Most settle on a point of diminishing returns where adding cost doesn't result in a great reduction of risk/defects. They use the warranty as a mechanism to sort out the 1% of defects that get out of the factory.

Personally I wouldn't want to see a significant increase the cost of Rohloff to make an unlikely problem a bit more unlikely.


----------



## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

Apologies for the grave dig, but there is a lot of good info in this thread. 

My newly acquried, old Rohloff hub is slipping in every gear under any real load. 

I've fiddled with the cable tension, tried the mallet on the axle ends and checked that the two springs are in place. I'm left with checking the alignment of the two holes on the cable drum and replacing the cables as the last two things I can think to check.

Any ideas?


----------



## CycleMonkey (Nov 20, 2013)

crank1979 said:


> Apologies for the grave dig, but there is a lot of good info in this thread.
> 
> My newly acquried, old Rohloff hub is slipping in every gear under any real load.
> 
> ...


If you're still having this problem, feel free to give us a call at (510) 868-1777 to discuss solutions.


----------



## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

CycleMonkey said:


> If you're still having this problem, feel free to give us a call at (510) 868-1777 to discuss solutions.


Thanks mate. The shop has it now as it was working when it went in to have the wheels rebuilt. Lucky I'm a patient man as it's been there for 9 weeks, minus the one day I had it to find the gears slipping!


----------



## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

Sometimes it's the simple things, like a worn cog. I took it for it's first ride yesterday and didn't have any slipping.

It's a different feeling to the Pinion gearbox on my Nicolai.


----------



## CycleMonkey (Nov 20, 2013)

crank1979 said:


> Sometimes it's the simple things, like a worn cog. I took it for it's first ride yesterday and didn't have any slipping.
> 
> It's a different feeling to the Pinion gearbox on my Nicolai.


Great. Glad you got it resolved. Happy trails.


----------



## uncajohn (Jan 17, 2006)

Hmm,
I cannot see the images! (and I've logged in, damn!). Is there any change to refresh your post?
My Speedhub, just failed by the same way (slipping gears...)

Many thanks,


----------



## uncajohn (Jan 17, 2006)

Hello all.

Since i can not find my original post, I'll make a short description here:

I had the same problem. My speedhub was “slipping gears” (or not, more on this later…), so after running all the recommended service tips, I was forced to send it to the factory. Of course I wrote a detailed report explaining that the problem appears only (ONLY) when there; s some torque applied on the pedals.

The speedhub went & returned with a “now it is all goo” report but no explanation on what went wrong. 

After a considerable amount of time I re-laced the wheel and after some more time I went for a first ride.

Well,
the problem is not fixed!
The speedhub is still slipping under pressure. To make myself clear, on the bike stand the Rohloff performs wonderfully. But when the pedals transfer some torque the “grang-grang-grang” re-appears!!!

So, here is what I think.

1. The guy who serviced the speedhub ignored my report. If he had not done so, he would have seen that the (very expensive) part is not to be shipped back to the customer yet.
Very disappointing...
2. The problem seems more to be on the engagement mechanism. It appears in all gears,, even at the 1:1 one (were we have a direct engagement of the hub). So I can only assume that the problem has to be there at the engagement mechanism..
3. Mailing the hub from Athens, Greece to Germany is quite expensive! (70E). Add on that the lack of reporting of “what went wrong” and you’ve got a customer wondering what’s wrong with them…

I’ll report back with a short video of the speedhub loosing engagement. I am leaning towards this explanation…

UncaJohn


----------



## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

Have you send it directly to Rohloff ?

Also , have you checked if your cog/chainring/chain combo isn't too worn out ?
If it skips on all the ratio , my bet is on that


----------



## uncajohn (Jan 17, 2006)

-Yes. It was mailed back to mother Rohloff, along with a very detailed description on when / how the problem appeared...
-Yes. The rest of the drivetrain is checked too (so you lost that bet!). 
So,
-NO, the problem is not a worn chain or some worn disks. It is... internal...

And last.
I am a bit dissapointed by thefact that when i received back the speedhub i got no word on what was wrong. Mind you that the speedhub came with a pair of rings added over the flances (and we all know what these are for...). All i say is that i believe that i do deserve a description / report from them, on what was the problem. After all i've done my part. I wrote my report to them and mailed it with the hub...


----------



## uncajohn (Jan 17, 2006)

Yesterday's short vid (as promished).

The hub has not been ridden since it came back from Germany, in order to be serviced for the same problem!
Any ideas?


----------



## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

You are absolutely sure that the noise is coming from the hub ?
Have you tried the hub on another bike?

If it is silent on another bike , noise might be coming from somewhere else.....

Throwing ideas , trying to help......


----------



## uncajohn (Jan 17, 2006)

No need for that. The hub is like "jumping" the engagement. It is not only the sound, it momentary skips engagement... you can feel it on the pedals.

As things are, it is not only a minor mechanical problem. It is the lack of attention by the company (despite the detailed description and the instructions on applying torgue on the sprocket. Also consider the time wasted (the only solution would be to build a new rim with a hub with a cassette, which is not that cheap) and the cost of shipping the part to Germany and back (120 euros so far)...

But the worst is the lack of infromation. i believe as a client i do deserve some attention, plus a detailed report on what they did (and what they did not!)

Uncajohn


----------



## uncajohn (Jan 17, 2006)

An update.

So far my communication with Rohloff has been fast & worry-free. But, despite the fact that the company contact me, many times, we seem to reach that point were i do have to take a risk...

-First, they are still "evasive" as far as to what happened. Come on Rohloff, i trust you. Just tell me what went wrong. I mean if i'll leave my car to the service center, the mechanic will inform me what was wrong... won't he?
Also i cannot accept the exuse that it takes too long to read their (internal affairs) report and tell me what i want to know. After all we already have exchanged more than 5 e-mails, so "time" is already lost!

And
-Sending, under these conditions, the hub back to Germany, for re-evaluating, does not guarrantee that the hub will be ok after the second trip! Sending it back & forth has a high cost.

I am pretty sure that Rohloff is checking this forum, from time to time... Obviously, I have nothing to hide. But on the other hand i need to share this information, in case that someone has find a solution to this problem...

What i will do now.
I will check the hub with the local dealer. We will try to see what is going on. If we succeed i will post the results here.

Greetings all!
John


----------



## cyclingdutchman (Mar 18, 2015)

Hello John, did you send the whole wheel or just the hub?

Secondly, I think they should be responsible for not fixing the problem the first time and take over the shipping costs. Afaik, in europe also repairs have a kind of warranty that you now should be able to claim. Maybe a chat with a lawyer would help, you maybe have an insurance for that?

In other forums I also read the same thing, rohloff is never giving a lot of information of what was wrong and how they fixed it. In general, most people dont ask much either as long as the issue is fixed.

Good luck and let us know how it turned out.


----------



## uncajohn (Jan 17, 2006)

*Cyclingduch.*

I mailed only the hub (i've made a special box for that). Mailing the whole wheel is too expensive.

Now,
I have to try something more before moving further. Sometimes the simple solution is not obvious...
The local dealer spotted something that may be the source of the problem, which was NOT evident at the video.
I will be really happy if (really-really happy, finally) I was wrong at my estimation, even if that means that i lost that bet with *Mr Fokof.*

So, stay tuned!


----------



## uncajohn (Jan 17, 2006)

IT worked (but I am not sure which one of the two was the right one!!!)

In detail:
I visited Rohloff’s local dealer (Evaggelos) and we checked the sppedhub’s plastic wedges for wear. All fine there. He proposed to reverse the sprocket and ride to check it. We’ve done that but...nope, the speedhub was “coughing” at the test flight. 
Here it becomes interesting:
Vaggelis noted that the front drivetrain disc seemed to be worn out. Wow! How did I missed that?

-I bought a steel disc (steel front and back for similar wear on the chain).
Back home I changed the disk and test rode the bike.. NOPE, the clacking was there! (at all speeds). Damn! I would be very (VERY) happy if I was wrong all the way and the problem was just worn drivetrain parts…!!!
-I re- reversed the sprocket, just to cover the possibility to have messed up at the shop by replacing the sprocket as it was! NOPE, no, it was not that….
-I re-re-reversed the sprocket (just to be sure). NOPE. At the touch & go it was clanking…
Then,
-I opened the other speedhub (zero kilometers on that one, yet!) and grabbed the sprocket. Then I got the 2 springs Mr. Speedhub.nate pointed us. What the hell (I thought) why not?
And
The speedhub is cured! No clanking at the test flight and I did hit a steep road.

Ooof!
But now, I am tired and i have no courage to replace the old springs on or the old sprocket, in order to determine IF it was the sprocket or the springs (but if I remember well that sprocket was on the speedhub when send back to the factory….).
So,
I am not sure what was the problem, tiny springs or sprocket. I may try that experiment (changing the sprocket / changing the springs) another day. Today I’ve overdone it!

That’s all….


----------



## uncajohn (Jan 17, 2006)

Conclusion

Well. I just returned from test ride at the local mountains. The hub is functioning perfectly now. No surprises during the 50+ km ride, mostly trails with rocks, loose stones, gravel, mud, logs and occasionally... sand!

So.
I can only assume that the slipping of engagement was occurring due to a worn sprocket or those 2 tiny springs. 
The question is how Rohloff missed that worn sprocket, when the hub was mailed there (keeping the sprocket on the hub is essensial, because it acts also as an oil seal). And if they missed that (to err is human after all), didn’t it slipped on the testing machine they claimed they used?

I will leave it as it is. No point to keep asking, but in the near future I will swap again those old springs in order to determine if the slipping was due to the sprocket only!

I am very pleased that my hub is working as intended (got to go & clean all that mud from my bike now..).

That's all folks...


----------



## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

Sorry to revive an old thread. I've fit my Kona Unit with a brand new Rohloff recently and Speedub.Nate's post #2 in this thread got me paranoid - what if I lost those freewheel springs when I changed the OEM2 axle plate orientation?

It seems like his explanation is not 100% accurate: when you change the axle plate (OEM/OEM2 whatever) orientation on the external gear arm, after unscrewing 5 torx20 bolts, you actually remove the axle plate, but you do not expose the springs. Those springs are only exposed when you lift the whole external gear arm from the hub, which is a step that is not necessary for the change of axle plate orientation.

If you were to convert from internal gear mech to external one, then it's a different story - you do have to lift the internal mechanism and expose the springs before putting the external mech on.

Long story short: if you are changing the external mech axle plate orientation (transferring Rohloff to a new frame or changing your cable routing), then you do not have to worry about those springs coming loose, flying off, whatever.


----------



## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

the image shows the external gear arm with axle plate removed. The springs in question are actually behind those pegs that I've circled in blue color.


----------



## cyclingdutchman (Mar 18, 2015)

Hi, sorry a bit offtopic but did you register your hub at rohloff? Rohloff offers much more service and warranty to registered first owner. There is a link on their homepage where you can leave your data, hub number and a pdf/picture of the bill. They will confirm after they have checked.Actually the dealer you bought it from should do this for you, but that is seldomly the case.

Keep riding and good luck! CU, CD


----------

