# Bikepacking shoes for frequent water crossings, HAB and flat pedals?



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've got my bikepacking gear pretty dialed these days with the exception of what shoes to wear for trips that feature gnarly riding, frequent water crossing and lots of steep HAB.

If I'm not having to carry my bike through water several times a day I'll just wear some 5.10 Freerider Elements and be happy.

http://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking-bike-expedition/five-ten-freerider-elements-924792.html

It gets old either having wet feet all day or stopping at each crossing to remove shoes and then put them on on the other side.

A typical light sandal doesn't provide enough toe protection for riding or support for steep HAB.

Just thought I would throw up this post and see what footwear those of you facing similar conditions use?

BTW - I'm on flat pedals.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

These Keen sort-of-sandals are my top candidate so far:










I can buy them locally and try them out to validate the fit which is important.

Keen Arroyo Sandals (Men's) - Mountain Equipment Co-op. Free Shipping Available


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

And these Keen Tech 5 shoes:










I'll have to check out a pair of these in person to see how well they would dry.

Keen Class 5 Tech Amphibious Shoes (Men's) - Mountain Equipment Co-op. Free Shipping Available


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## UPSed (Dec 26, 2010)

I have a couple pairs of the Keens and although I have only ridden my cruiser bike with them I have done several hikes and they are very comfortable and supportive and that's without socks! Several water crossings and a couple days in ocean water over the past couple years and they show no wear.


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## Gilarider (Jul 13, 2009)

I recommend wearing your five tens. If it is cold wear neoprene socks with a thin wool sock under them, if it is warmer then the neoprene might feel hot when you are riding so just the wool socks then. 

If your feet aren't freezing you can get used to them being wet all day long, speaking from experience with wet wading while fishing.

IMO, five tens are much better in the water than those keens will be, judging from the picture of the hard rubber on the soles of them. I fish in five tens now because they make such a difference. They get heavy, but they are the old impacts and soak up a lot of water.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The shoes don't have to be great in the water. We are talking water crossings like shown above. Not enough to get too excited about, but frequent enough that you have to choose between wet shoes or stopping to take off your shoes/socks and then putting them on again on the far side.

I've spent days in wet shoes. It's doable, but having done it I know I don't enjoy it. I'd rather stop and take off my shoes, but that slows down the ride hence the desire for a water shoe I can ride in.

I agree the 5.10's have a nice grippy sole. But having owned other Keens with the same soles I know it's more than adequate for tromping across a creek.


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

Hola Vik,

I usually ride with Keen cycling sandals (on flat pedals) down here in South America and when it gets colder I usually wear Salomon (non Gore-Tex) trail running shoes (they often dry at night)... but I's looking for other options, too.

Has anyone tried Baffins? I used to have an old pair of Adidas ClimaCool running shoes with a similar system which worked amazing in water crossings when trekking.

SWAMP BUGGY MEN

Saludos,
Federico


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

It seems to me the place to start would be Five Ten Water Tennies. I have a couple of pairs of Impacts that I really like and their aquatic shoes would be at the top of my list of shoes to try. They also make a shoe especially for canyoneerring, which would probably be too extreme for your use, but it means that they have thought seriously about wet shoe issues.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Welnic said:


> It seems to me the place to start would be Five Ten Water Tennies. I have a couple of pairs of Impacts that I really like and their aquatic shoes would be at the top of my list of shoes to try. They also make a shoe especially for canyoneerring, which would probably be too extreme for your use, but it means that they have thought seriously about wet shoe issues.


I had a look at them they look great if you plan to spend your time in the water a lot. They don't look like they dry quickly which is really what you need for a biking shoe that gets wet.










I have used Salomon Tech Amphibs before and they dry fast due to all the mesh. My use has been restricted to non-techy dirt road touring and no hard HAB. They are quite flexible and don't offer much protection to the foot.

Worth trying though.

The Keens shoe/sandal hybrid I posted above are stiffer and more robust, but wouldn't dry as fast.

It's a matter of finding the right trade offs.

I'm fine with having a bunch of different shoes and grabbing the ones that make the most sense for a given trip. Although I have learned that when you find something that works well buy 1 or 2 spare pairs. By the time you wear out the originals they usually have stopped making the shoe and you have to figure out a new solution all over again. :skep:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I have carried Vibram Five Fingers with me on bikepacking trips. They are a good camp shoe to get out of your bike shoes when the are hot/sweaty or you need to dry them by the fire.

Great for water crossings that need good grip, but they are very flexible and offer limited protection in chunky rivers.

I tried riding my MTB with them when I knew the next creek crossing was only 5 mins ahead. It really sucked. I was further ahead to jog next to my bike.

Putting them on/taking them off and swapping back to my 5.10 bike shoes is a hassle and what prompted me to look for a one shoe to rule them all for rides where creek crossings were frequent.


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## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

The Astral Rassler looks promising...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

albeant said:


> The Astral Rassler looks promising...
> 
> View attachment 951568


They are on clearance at MEC. I was thinking of ordering a pair to check out. I suspect they won't dry particularly fast though. But MEC will take them back despite it being a clearance item so it's worth looking it at.

Might work well as a fishing or boating shoe.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've tried a variety of trail runners. They are reasonable for drying fast, but the hard plastic arches make techy biking more exciting than it should be and the raised heel is not all that stable for hard HAB.

The flat soles of non-running shoes work better.


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## Gilarider (Jul 13, 2009)

vikb said:


> The shoes don't have to be great in the water. We are talking water crossings like shown above. Not enough to get too excited about, but frequent enough that you have to choose between wet shoes or stopping to take off your shoes/socks and then putting them on again on the far side.


It looks like you are in rubber sock country to me because it doesn't look that warm in your photo. They will keep your feet warm(ish) after you get through with the crossings. If you are doing several crossings a day any socks that are going to keep you warm aren't likely to dry fast no matter what shoe you are wearing, so you are likely to have wet feet, or cold feet if you wear thin socks so that they dry. I prefer warm and wet feet. Then I would just change into some sandals and dry socks when you stop for the day.

I have tried, over the years, felt boots, trailrunners, sandals, fiveten water tennies, and approach shoes and the impacts I have are the best yet for hiking and wading for me, mostly because they have more sole support than the lightweight options and more sturdy uppers, although the sole has wanted to come off and I glued the edges back down. And the bonus is, they are great to ride in, way better than the other options.

When my old impacts wear out the new version looks really good to me, I mean I wish they had more drainage and mesh panels, but they still look like the best option for hiking into creeks and not falling on my ass when wading. Looking at the current five ten water tennies, and their canyoneer shoe, as someone else suggested, I can tell you the water tennies look thin on the bottom and would not be much fun to hike in on rocky ground, and the canyoneer has the same crappy buckles I had on my old model water tennie that are always too loose or too tight.

Feel free to get the keens, I don't care, they just look a little light in the sole department for riding and walking all day, but you may be fine in them.Whatever you get, buy them big enough for neoprene socks and try them out.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gilarider said:


> It looks like you are in rubber sock country to me because it doesn't look that warm in your photo. T


That photo was first thing in the morning at high elevation. Typical daytime temps in the summer are 70 - 100 deg F.

My buddy in that photo is wearing Keen sandals and no socks. He's a bit of a machine. 

I stopped took my 5.10s off and walked across barefoot and put my shoes/socks back on.

No real need for socks if the shoes will dry fast enough. In 5.10's once they are wet they stay wet all day so I wear socks to combat shoe funk and because wet feet = soft feet and blisters.

As I said above I've done the wet feet all day thing. It's not fun. If I have to I'll just stop and take my shoes off each time.

However, it seems like there should be a shoe out there that dries fast enough to wear as you cross creeks and dry out as you ride.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

What about going with two shoes? You have a pair of for water only shoes that you wear when you have to play in the water, and then if you are on a trail where your shoes would have a chance of drying then you put on your dry shoes. That way you don't care if the water shoes don't dry, and your feet are dry right away once the water stops. But you are always carrying an extra pair of shoes, one of which is always wet. I know you said you didn't like the hassle of changing shoes, but if you could wear the wet shoes in between crossings you wouldn't have to change shoes that often.



vikb said:


> ...
> I'm fine with having a bunch of different shoes and grabbing the ones that make the most sense for a given trip. Although I have learned that when you find something that works well buy 1 or 2 spare pairs. By the time you wear out the originals they usually have stopped making the shoe and you have to figure out a new solution all over again. :skep:


I used to use Merrell trail running shoes for everyday use. Every time I bought a new pair I had to figure out what to buy since the old one was no longer made. For my last shoe they had simply quit making shoes in that category. All of their trail running shoes were super lightweight barefoot versions. But when I bought my current shoe they now make a barefoot-regular trail shoe hybrid which really quite nice.

Men?s All Out Rush Running Shoes ? J01697 | Merrell

The lightweight uppers seem like they would dry out fairly quickly. They are great hiking shoes. Even though they are running shoes they have a flat sole. It has less contact area on the sole than a dedicated biking shoe, but the rubber feels reasonably soft. I could try them on my bike if you are interested, I'll be sure to wear shin guards when I do.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Welnic said:


> What about going with two shoes?


I carried a pair of Five Fingers this year as a second pair of footwear for use in the water. They are reasonably light/compact while being good in the water and good at camp.

The hassle was stopping to put them on/off each time. After a while I stopped putting them on and just walked through the water barefoot to save some time.

Frankly one of my goals in looking for a shoe that will dry fast once wet is so I can reduce my shoes down to 1 pair.

We are doing lots of tough HAB and after hours upon hours of pushing your bike up mountains you get highly motivated to reduce the gear you are bringing not add more to the mix.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

albeant said:


> The Astral Rassler looks promising...
> 
> View attachment 951568


Here is a positive review on the Rasslers: Astral Rassler Water Shoe | Blister Gear Review ? Skis, Snowboards, Mountain Bikes, Climbing, Kayaking - The most honest and in-depth reviews of outdoor sports equipment on the planet.


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## Gilarider (Jul 13, 2009)

OK, so the photo threw me off. You are talking warm to hot weather, possibly with no socks on? Then forget neoprene.

I think your shoe/sandal hybrid is going to be OK if your feet can handle hiking all day in them, mine probably couldn't, but I am getting soft. Some of the sandalshoes have flatter bottoms than the average trail shoe, which is probably good. Chaco's seem pretty stiff soled for a sandal, maybe their hybrids are like that, IDK. My second choice would be something like a teva links that is supposed to dry fast, but I would want to wear socks with those.


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## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

IME, the problem with stream crossings in shandals like Keens is that they allow too many small rocks and other debris to enter, and then trap them expertly between shoe and foot. So I end up stopping often to pull them off and dump out the rocks, which in the best case makes socks mandatory, and in the worst case makes the whole shandal enterprise pretty pointless.

For rides with lots of stream crossings, I just default to thin, snug poly socks (like Defeets) that don't hold much water, and a shoe that itself doesn't absorb too much water either. The Astrals seem to go pretty far in that direction with lots of mesh, a rubber/plastic insole, and drain holes. I haven't tried them, but seem to be talking myself into picking up a pair.


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## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

Looks like Astral has updated the Rassler w/ a new sole:









Canoe/Kayak mag has a brief write-up on them, along with a short list of other options:

Astral Rassler - Canoe & Kayak Magazine


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I've used the Astral Rassler and Brewer--for boating. Great because they're light and absorb virtually zero water, so there's nothing to dry. Bad because the soles are so flimsy I can't really walk far in them. 

No idea how they'd be to pedal in, other than flimsy. Wouldn't want to walk (or HAB) far in them at all.

I'd look closer at the Salomon stuff if I were Vik. Light, fast drying, good sole, good tread.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mikesee said:


> No idea how they'd be to pedal in, other than flimsy. Wouldn't want to walk (or HAB) far in them at all.
> 
> I'd look closer at the Salomon stuff if I were Vik. Light, fast drying, good sole, good tread.


I'm finding that a typical trail runner is the minimum stiffness that I can HAB and pedal all day it.

If the Rasslers are floppy they won't work.

I'll take a look at the Salomons. I can get them locally.

Thanks for all the feedback folks. I'll post something up after trying out some options. :thumbsup:

I can highly recommend the 5.10 Free Rider Elements for a non-aquatic bikepacking shoe. Rides well and HAB's well.


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

these Vasque's look like a good shoe where there are a lot of water crossings
LOTIC, JET BLACK/LIME GREEN - PERFORMANCE

My preference is to use an Approach type shoe that has a decent shank for stiffness on the bike and support on HAB. I have an older pair of Montrail CTC's but they are no longer made. The Vasque Grand Traverse looks like a good option too. for clipless users this new Rime shoe from Specialized Specialized Bicycle Components
looks like it would dry fast and has a good sole for HAB

mike


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

vikb said:


> These Keen sort-of-sandals are my top candidate so far:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like my keen sandals for walking around places where it rains a lot.
the soles are to thin for pedaling a long ways. Around town they are fine, but after 20 miles they are not comfortable on a bike


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

I've hiked a bunch in my Montrail Mountain Masochist. 

I use SPD on the bike so no real bike input, but the soles are pretty solid when test riding bikes at work. 

Its a rugged trail runner for sure and dries fairly quickly. Don't bother with the water resistant ones.


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## eatsleepbikes (Oct 3, 2009)

I just ran across a shoe that looks like it might work. It's made by Baffin and it is the
swamp buggy. not sure how to do the link thing


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

eatsleepbikes said:


> I just ran across a shoe that looks like it might work. It's made by Baffin and it is the
> swamp buggy. not sure how to do the link thing












SWAMP BUGGY MEN


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

I also own a pair of astral rasslers for whitewater boating. They have virtually no foam in the upper to absorb water and the outsoles are at least as sticky on wet rock as 5.10s, but I would not want to ride any distance in them. The midsole is flimsy and the upper is made out of stiff cordura, with no extra padding and I think it might cut into your achilles pretty bad. It's also worth noting that those are on sale, not only because of the redesign, but also because that batch did not get the outsole glued properly so it will start falling off. I managed to repair mine with aquaseal/ seam grip so it was worth it for the price, but beware.


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## HOser (Dec 8, 2005)

I swear by my Rocky Gortex socks:
Rocky 13" GORE-TEX® Sock - GORE-TEX® products

I first used some on a big trip from Nederland to Crested Butte and loved them so much I made sure to get a picture when stopping to put them on to cross one of many streams coming off of Pearl pass:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Uxsvo6Eu8lk/UeoN1-1VJyI/AAAAAAAADmA/nQm9dWIUR60/s1600/DSC03555.JPG

I wore them as needed under my shoe but over my wool socks. My shoes got soaked when crossing streams, but my socks and feet stayed dry and warm. They work great also for extended periods of cold rain.

Another scenario where they proved to useful was when waking up in the morning, getting dressed, and discovering my shoes were still wet from the day before. Starting the day with dry socks doesn't help if your shoes are wet, but with the Gortex socks I started the day with dry, warm feet.

FYI, I'm using Specialized Rime shoes, but Gortex socks should work just as well with any shoe. They are not very bulky but you have to be careful putting them on. They don't stretch much and you don't want to tear them.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

HOser said:


> I swear by my Rocky Gortex socks:
> Rocky 13" GORE-TEX® Sock - GORE-TEX® products
> 
> I first used some on a big trip from Nederland to Crested Butte and loved them so much I made sure to get a picture when stopping to put them on to cross one of many streams coming off of Pearl pass:
> ...












I can see using them for a tour that's going to see lots of rain like winter in the PNW.

Creeks can easily be knee deep so I don't see them as any help for the situation I was trying to resolve not to mention the fact that in summer temps I wouldn't want them on my feet.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

You need the 32" version.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Welnic said:


> You need the 32" version.


32" Goretex socks? Might as well pack the hip waders and fly rod.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I did forget to add the smiley face.


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

vikb said:


> 32" Goretex socks? Might as well pack the hip waders and fly rod.


Ha! I would guess that the 32" sock is actually for the flyrod!

Fast-drying mountain-biking/trail-riding shoes for stream crossings, solid enough for hike-a-bike. These can be made. I don't think they exist, yet. I don't remember ever seeing any.
Mesh and hydrophobic materials for the uppers.

By the way I have a 6-pc, 8.5', 4 wt flyrod that is just 19" long when broken down and stuffed inside its sock.


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## Addy Marx (Jul 18, 2009)

If you're talking about Tyaughton... your feet are going to be wet, just the way she goes. After wet days when the inside of my shoes haven't had time to fully dry out I've put on my Rocky Gore socks over dry socks, and then my shoes that way my feet stay dry. Eventually the shoes dry out.

These....? Five Ten Water Tennie Mid (Men's) - Mountain Equipment Co-op. Free Shipping Available


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

I carry a pair of Adidas kampung for river crossings and in camp. These cost about $3 and are made from recycled tires they are not stiff and are hopeless for riding but they keep the leeches off, grip well on wet rocks and dry instantly. I Dry my feet after they get wet otherwise footrot can easily happen in our conditions. Btw these have nothing to do with a major german company just a local colloquialism for rubber tapper shoes. I try and keep my riding shoes reasonably dry


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Addy Marx said:


> If you're talking about Tyaughton... your feet are going to be wet, just the way she goes.


The Chicoltins the last two summers as well the Flathead Valley are the prime motivators, but BC is full of water crossings.

Last summer I had dry shoes the whole time in the Chilcotins, but I took them off for water crossings. Other folks on the same trip had sandals that dried pretty quick.


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

I brought 5.10s for riding and keens for the water crossings. I can't believe Scott used only Keens for everything on that trip. I have done enough hiking in Keens to know they aren't much good for that, especially when wet. And especially on steep trails like we were HABing on. Personally I don't think there were enough water crossings that it was a huge drag to change shoes. It slowed us down, yes, but we also were stopping to filter water frequently rather than carry it, which slowed us down as well. I didn't mind because for me it was more about the experience of being in such and awesome, beautiful place.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

People's goals bikepacking are quite varied. When I start planning trips for the years Scott is somebody I get involved. We get along well enough and have similar interests.

The problem I have is he's both faster than me riding and more efficient off the bike. So I need to always be optimizing my game to stay with him. I'm never going to be faster than him, but I want to be the least drag on the team that I can be.

Scott hits the creek:

- walks across in his keens
- scoops bottle of water
- back on the bike and riding

Total time = 45 seconds

Vik hits the creek [and doesn't want wet feet all day]:

- stops swaps out 5.10s for five fingers or goes barefoot
- gets across creek sits down puts shoes back on
- fills water bottle
- mixes Pristine drops and dumps in bottle
- back on bike trying to stay with Scott

Total time = 5 mins

I can resolve the water purification time delay no problem. So now I'm searching for the one-shoe-to-rule-all-creeks to save the other part of the delay.

Just so I don't sound too speed/efficiency focused I should add that I get lots of outdoors time at a slower relaxed pace. I have buddies that dabble in bikepacking and when do our trips the pace is chill. When I ride with my GF the pace drops even more. I spend quite a few nights each year in a tent base camping for MTB trips, kiteboarding/surfing. I can spend the whole day standing pretty still fly fishing. So why soaking in nature's beauty box gets checked all the time.

However, I do enjoy the challenge of optimizing my ability to move over challenging terrain with my bike. Both just for the sake of the mental/physical game and also because with blocks of time off of 9 days at a go [an easy slot off work] being efficient means I can tackle more ambitious trips than I would be able to otherwise. It also provides an extra safety margin to get out of the way of bad weather or dealing with unforeseen detours.

The beauty of having an optimized bikepacking approach is that you can always move slower or end the day earlier if you feel like it. If you aren't already efficient it's not so easy to suddenly make that happen on the fly.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

On the shoe front I'm going to try these Salmon Tech Amphibians out for summer BC bikepacking and see how they do. I have used this model of shoe for kayaking trips and road bicycle touring so I know they work well for my feet and dry fast.

The main questions are:

- do they have enough support/grip for hard HAB?
- do they have enough support/grip for tough MTBing?


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## jesusburger (Apr 20, 2006)

I am on my 2nd pair of Keen Arroyos. I like them a lot and they get used all year around with and without socks (mostly without). They are not very stiff, which I actually prefer, and although the sole gets chewed-up some by the pedal pins they have proved very durable. I tried the cycling specific Keens (black & yellow - used without cleats) but they were too stiff for walking and too narrow, even on my long skinny feet.
I still wear my first pair of green Arroyos on the beach even though the sole is mostly worn down to the foam-core - can't bare to throw them away!

I've ridden plenty of trails but you will find small rocks and gravel find their way beneath your feet, that can get annoying. Can't have everything.

The old:


The new:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jesusburger said:


> I am on my 2nd pair of Keen Arroyos.


I think I'm going to get some Arroyos for day to day use and then see what I think about them on the bike. Glad they are working out for you.

Sweet original Pugsley BTW. :thumbsup:


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Those Arroyos are what I brought on the trip for crossings. I use them for fishing a lot. The issue I have with them for HAB is that your feet slide around on the soles a lot when wet and they offer little grip on steep dirt. They might be ok on less steep HABs but on steep Chilcotins HABs I think they would suck. The open design would drive me crazy, on the few sections I rode with them they were ok, not great, and I did have to stop a few times to remove rocks. You would have to factor that stop time in as well. 

Personally if I wanted footwear that would work for riding, wading and HAB I'd go with a lighter weight running/approach shoe that has proper laces so you can do them up tight, and has a decent amount of tread on the sole. The cinches on a lot of the wading shoes don't hold them tight enough for HAB in my experience.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

evdog said:


> Those Arroyos are what I brought on the trip for crossings. I use them for fishing a lot. The issue I have with them for HAB is that your feet slide around on the soles a lot when wet and they offer little grip on steep dirt. Th
> Personally if I wanted footwear that would work for riding, wading and HAB I'd go with a lighter weight running/approach shoe that has proper laces so you can do them up tight, and has a decent amount of tread on the sole.


I tried lightweight trail runners. I found they took so long to dry that I'd be just as well off in 5.10s which are better on the bike.

I agree getting gravel in your shoes isn't much fun. I'm hoping the small mesh on the Tech Amphibians keeps that to a minimum. I have had sand get inside them when used at the beach, but I just accept sand in everything when you are living by the ocean.


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## jesusburger (Apr 20, 2006)

Forgot to say Vik the Keen cinches do loosen-off but you can replace with standard laces if that gets annoying. The Arroyos don't dry very quickly but in summer conditions are still comfortable with the foamy interior lining they use.


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## Val Garou (Mar 12, 2008)

vikb said:


> Scott hits the creek:
> 
> - walks across in his keens
> - scoops bottle of water
> ...


If I may ask, what's the strategy for resolving the purification delay? Are you switching to tablets? Or just forgoing it all together?


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## moderndayviking (May 19, 2015)

Something I have been contemplating on getting are the Shimano XM9s. Gore-Tex, vibram, SPD or flat pedal compatible. There's also the XM7, only difference being the tall ankle cuff is removed. (XM9 - TOUR - CYCLING FOOTWEAR AND PEDALS - LIFESTYLE GEAR - SHIMANO)

Bikepackers Magazine brought some in to do a review, here's their first look: First Look: Shimano Shoes XM7 and XM9 - Bikepackers Magazine


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## Affe (Dec 4, 2007)

vikb said:


> I've got my bikepacking gear pretty dialed these days with the exception of what shoes to wear for trips that feature gnarly riding, frequent water crossing and lots of steep HAB.
> 
> If I'm not having to carry my bike through water several times a day I'll just wear some 5.10 Freerider Elements and be happy.
> 
> ...


Updates?

I'm looking for bikepacking shoes for this season myself. What I'm thinking is they should have flat enough sole to grip pedals (flats) and dry fast form crossings and rain. I'm also thinking the possibility of modification: If I find an otherwise good shoe but flexy, cut a plastic insole to stiffen it up (my friends do this for commuting, didn't try it myself) going as far as thinking if I can find a good shoe with lugs, gut the lugs off.

What I've found so far online: have no clue how fast these get dry but look good:
Already mentioned Water Tennies Five Ten | Water Tennie Water Shoe| Black
Keen Versatrail Versatrail for Men | KEEN Footwear
Adidas Terrex adidas Terrex Solo Shoes - Multicolor | adidas US

Edit: Somebody mentioned Teva Links. I have those, nice shoe, but takes literally DAYS to dry up.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Val Garou said:


> If I may ask, what's the strategy for resolving the purification delay? Are you switching to tablets? Or just forgoing it all together?


Sorry I didn't see this message until today.

My new protocol is to just drop a tablet into my water bottle after filling from a water source. I typically let it do its thing and drink later on.

If I am in an area of very high quality water [high alpine] I'll just drink untreated water or water from a bottle that has been treated, but not for as long as stated on the directions.

Keep in mind I live and tour mostly in BC which has a lot of high quality water sources.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Affe said:


> Updates?


I've still been using my Freerider Elements for tours. They work great for everything, but the river/creek crossings and the last couple tours I haven't felt like experimenting.

Having said that I spent a bunch of time last trip pulling them off and putting them on multiple times a day for crossings and wished I had a better solution.


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## fleboz (Apr 22, 2015)

vikb--I've had the Tech Amphibians for a couple of seasons and really enjoy them. No issues with small rocks getting in the mesh for me and they dry out nicely. The only issue i've had is the strap on the back does work its way lose sometimes. that was the only time i had a rock enter my shoe during a ride. easy enough to adjust on the fly.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

fleboz said:


> vikb--I've had the Tech Amphibians for a couple of seasons and really enjoy them. No issues with small rocks getting in the mesh for me and they dry out nicely. The only issue i've had is the strap on the back does work its way lose sometimes. that was the only time i had a rock enter my shoe during a ride. easy enough to adjust on the fly.


This is pair #3 for me so I'm used to using them for watersports and I have used them for a road tour before.

What I haven't used them for is techy bikepacking that involves a lot of tough HAB. I need to find a shorter 1 or 2 night tour to test them out on where I'm not committed to a long haul with a pair of shoes I am not confident in.


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## fleboz (Apr 22, 2015)

I've used them for tech rides, plus i enjoy trail running in them. For me no issues, other than that back strap i mentioned. I'm in Montana, as tech rides means something different to each of us!


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## CrashTheDOG (Jan 4, 2004)

Vik, have you looked at Chaco's Outcross Evo 2? I don't have any personal experience with them but it look like they might check off all of the boxes.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

I had a pair of Tech Amphibs a few years ago. Exposed seams on the inside tore the hell out of my feet.



CrashTheDOG said:


> Vik, have you looked at Chaco's Outcross Evo 2? I don't have any personal experience with them but it look like they might check off all of the boxes.


I was thinking the same thing. I haven't worn that particular model, but everything else I've worn from Chaco has been really well made.


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

*These work for me*

Been MTB'ing AK, commuting in Portland, and hiking with these for a year now. No complaints. Waterproof, breathe pretty well, light, tread is shallow. I like em, don't love them, but as I said... no complaints, no blisters hiking.

Zamberlan 230 SH CROSSER PLUS GTX RR

Mountain Boots Trekking BOOTS Shoes Manufacturer - Zamberlan


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## fleboz (Apr 22, 2015)

The Evo 2 are on sale right now if anyone is interested. 
Men - Outcross Evo 2 - Brindle | Chacos


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

CrashTheDOG said:


> Vik, have you looked at Chaco's Outcross Evo 2? I don't have any personal experience with them but it look like they might check off all of the boxes.


Thanks. Those look promising. Hopefully I can put my hands and feet on a pair locally to try out. 



Smithhammer said:


> I had a pair of Tech Amphibs a few years ago. Exposed seams on the inside tore the hell out of my feet.


That must have been a defective pair. I've had several pairs that were worn barefoot for months at a time with no issues and my friends had similarly positive experiences.

Comfort was one of their strong points in my experience.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

vikb said:


> That must have been a defective pair. I've had several pairs that were worn barefoot for months at a time with no issues and my friends had similarly positive experiences.
> 
> Comfort was one of their strong points in my experience.


Yeah, I think you're right. I was surprised, since Salomons are generally very good quality. I got them at STP, and maybe they were seconds or something.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

barneys sports chalet in Alaska, has some very lightweight slip on hip waders, that would work very well. basically a hip high sleeve that you put on over your shoes to wade across streams and rivers. They do have booties on them. packable hip boot is what it is. they are pretty lightweight.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

the ones I have do not have the big sole on them. just a rough bottom.
Neos Sourdough Slipper Overboot - Overboots/Hipboots - Footwear


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## Nico_SB (Jan 21, 2014)

I've been wearing the Patagonia Rover shoe for the last year or so. The mostly mesh uppers drain easily and dry fast, and the relatively flat, low-drop sole with sticky rubber and forefoot rock plate finds a good balance for me on and off the bike.
I'm pretty certain they've been discontinued though.  Maybe some stores still have a stash of 'em hidden away.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

I have about a year on my current shoes and recently completed a 350 mile bikepacking race with plenty of water crossings so I think I'm ready to give my official endorsement to the Altra Superior 2.0.

https://www.altrarunning.com/men/superior-20

Despite the flexible, lugged sole designed for trail running, they have been very grippy and comfortable for long efforts on the bike. Their best feature though is how well they deal with wet conditions. This race took me through tons of BB height water and had plenty of hike a bike through water as high as chest deep and through 80 hours of riding from Sat am to Tues pm I didn't once have to deal with blisters or nasty trench foot BS. I think the wool Injinji toe socks I wore deserve credit too, but I'd recommend those with any shoe.

The super wide toe box and open airy material are must haves for me and I didn't find the thin/flexible sole to be an issue despite the long hours pushing. The only warning I have is to order a couple sizes bigger than you normally wear as they run small.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

5.10 mesh approach shoes:

Five Ten | Access Mesh Approach Shoe - Grey

mtbr forum link:
http://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking-bike-expedition/five-ten-access-mesh-1013838.html


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Welnic said:


> 5.10 mesh approach shoes:
> 
> Five Ten | Access Mesh Approach Shoe - Grey
> 
> ...


Those look like a good option. Thanks for posting.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I've been wearing mine for a couple weeks now and love them. I had been wearing Aescents but these are much lighter, stiffer, obviously more breathable and quick drying, and at least in the blue the look sweet. I'll post back after I give them a good thrashing on the Colorado Trail next month. Hoping to climb a 14er or two along the way.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

vikb said:


> Those look like a good option. Thanks for posting.


They are costly though--might have to skip a few sixers to keep on budget. Still liking the no-spending blogs. Well done!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Matterhorn said:


> They are costly though--might have to skip a few sixers to keep on budget. Still liking the no-spending blogs. Well done!


Haha! Thanks. Ya not getting 'em in 2016. I'm keeping a list of stuff I may buy next year. I'll probably "authorize" a few non-essential purchases in 2017.


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## Affe (Dec 4, 2007)

Matterhorn said:


> I've been wearing mine for a couple weeks now and love them. I had been wearing Aescents but these are much lighter, stiffer, obviously more breathable and quick drying, and at least in the blue the look sweet. I'll post back after I give them a good thrashing on the Colorado Trail next month. Hoping to climb a 14er or two along the way.


Have you, or anyone else familiar with 5/10 mesh approach, experienced heel rub on stays?

These seem pretty perfect, if the sole is stiffer than trail running shoes/stiff enough for mtb, but im concerned about the wide sole at the back of the shoe that you can see in the photos..


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I have not had any heel rub at all. I'm riding an ECR with 135mm spacing and VP Harrier pedals.


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## Endless Trails (Apr 10, 2016)

A few weeks ago I got sick of trying to dry my FiveTen's and decided to cut down the lugs on a pair of old La Sportive running shoes I had lying around. I have done a lot of scrambling and mountain running in these so the uppers are pretty trashed but the sole was still fine.

These shoes are quite special in the sense that the sole have a solid, flat rubber sheet and then the lugs stick out from that. So I simply cut of the lugs under the front of the foot to give a flat surface for the pedals to grip but kept the rest to give me a lot of traction in wet and muddy conditions when I have to push my bike.















So far I have used these for 4 day bikepacking trip on Sörmlandsleden, a trail in Sweden, and several shorter local mtb rides. They work, really good. Not quite as good grip as with my Fiveten's but definitely good enough for bikepacking. Even on rough trails.
















Some more pictures from that ride can be found here Among rocks and roots on Sörmlandsleden


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## Affe (Dec 4, 2007)

Endless Trails said:


> A few weeks ago I got sick of trying to dry my FiveTen's and decided to cut down the lugs on a pair of old La Sportive running shoes I had lying around. I have done a lot of scrambling and mountain running in these so the uppers are pretty trashed but the sole was still fine.
> 
> These shoes are quite special in the sense that the sole have a solid, flat rubber sheet and then the lugs stick out from that. So I simply cut of the lugs under the front of the foot to give a flat surface for the pedals to grip but kept the rest to give me a lot of traction in wet and muddy conditions when I have to push my bike.
> 
> ...


nice! i guess the sole is thin and flexy and not stiff like bike specific shoes? no problems/aches because of that? you could thicken it by the glue on thing you suggested in the other thread, feel no need for that?


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## Endless Trails (Apr 10, 2016)

Affe said:


> nice! i guess the sole is thin and flexy and not stiff like bike specific shoes? no problems/aches because of that? you could thicken it by the glue on thing you suggested in the other thread, feel no need for that?


The sole is soften than bike shoes and I really noticed it for the first couple of hours riding, after that I guess I got used to it. I mainly tried this as an experiment since I already had these shoes and I wasn't using them.

I'm still tempted to get a pair of shoes that is much stiffer and even quicker drying, these still retain some water, and glue a new approach shoe sole on them but for now this will have to do


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

I've been riding recently in a pair of FiveTen Dirtbags and a pair of Keen Newport H2s. Surprisingly (to me) I prefer the Keens in every way. Way better in the water (duh), but also more comfortable to hike in, way better arch support, and stickier than the Dirtbags on my Aeffect pedals. Your mileage may vary, but I like them a lot.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Love my Keens. They are stout but comfortable -- used for a GAP/C&O Canal trip, San Juan River rafting, hiking, bike commuting -- all good. 

Style points = 0 
Functionality = 100%

Paired with some neoprene socks, they could work well for light bikepacking with some stream crossings/HAB.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

MrkT said:


> I've been riding recently in a pair of FiveTen Dirtbags and a pair of Keen Newport H2s. Surprisingly (to me) I prefer the Keens in every way. Way better in the water (duh), but also more comfortable to hike in, way better arch support, and stickier than the Dirtbags on my Aeffect pedals. Your mileage may vary, but I like them a lot.


Not surprised - the Dirtbags are really just intended to be a BMX & kicking around shoe. They would never be my choice for long-distance bikepacking. If you try a different (stiffer) 5.10 model, like the Maltese for example, you'll see there is a world of difference.


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## AlaskaStinson (Jun 3, 2012)

Light Weight Waders

I use these when I really don't want to get wet, like crossing overflow in sub zero temps.

They don't take much time to put on and weigh about a pound for the set.

Absolutely worthless for hike a bike, and can rip easily. For crossing cold streams and muskeg, these are great.


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## demondan (Jul 25, 2008)

NickandBruce said:


> I have about a year on my current shoes and recently completed a 350 mile bikepacking race with plenty of water crossings so I think I'm ready to give my official endorsement to the Altra Superior 2.0.
> 
> https://www.altrarunning.com/men/superior-20
> 
> ...


Another vote for Altra shoes I love my lone peaks but also wear the superior. The superior is popular with the "Spartan" race /OCR crowd cause they grip well and drain well. They have a removable rock guard which makes them stiffer. The fit of Altra is all over the place so trying them on is a good move. Good luck Vik and I enjoy your blog!


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I just did a seven day tour with the Croc's Mens Swiftwater.

The sole is firm. The tread pattern is minimal and works well with lugged platform pedals. They're comfortable walking around shoes. The velcro held snug throughout the trip both wet and dry. They weigh 15oz/425g on my scale.

The top is entirely mesh and the Velcro closure is more "plastic-y" than fabric. This really aids in quick drying.









The dry _much_ faster than my Keens. The spongy fabrics in the Keens stay wet longer and start to stink.

For colder mornings, I just put on Merino wools socks. Yes, sandals and socks sucks - but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do...


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Saw an ad for Showers Pass waterproof socks and decided to check them out. They could be an option from some conditions.

CROSSPOINT WATERPROOF CREW SOCKS



> Don't let cold wet feet ruin your outdoor fun! We developed Crosspoint Waterproof Socks to solve the soggy toe problem and to keep your feet dry while cycling, running, hiking, any outdoor activity in the rain. Our socks are fully waterproof thanks to 3-layers: a wear resistant knit exterior (feels like a regular sock), a waterproof breathable Artex membrane, and a Coolmax FX moisture wicking anti-bacteria lining. The result is a sock that feels like a sock but protects like a rain bootie. Now you don't have to choose between keeping your feet dry and breathability (we don't like sweaty feet either).


wool option
black crew
hi viz

Looks like they could keep your feet dry for light wading (a few inches deep) and on drippy days.


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## lentamentalisk (Jul 21, 2015)

That could certainly work if the streams never get above ankle height. For deeper streams the best implementation of this I've seen is to cross the creek sockless, get to the other side, dry your feet, and put the waterproof socks on, and wear your wet shoes. Still takes a while, but may keep away blisters and trench foot.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lentamentalisk said:


> For deeper streams the best implementation of this I've seen is to cross the creek sockless, get to the other side, dry your feet, and put the waterproof socks on, and wear your wet shoes. Still takes a while, but may keep away blisters and trench foot.


I've done that ^^^ except either gone barefoot or used some vibram 5 fingers [also my camp shoes at the time] that way my shoes and socks stayed dry. Works fine if there is one or two crossings a day. When you have 5+ in a few KMs of riding it gets slow and old pretty fast.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-five-ten-drops-2-lightweight-trail-shoes.html

5.10/Adidas may have made the fast dry bike shoe I was looking for. Hard to say from pics only, but it's promising enough I'll get a pair and try them out.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

vikb said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-five-ten-drops-2-lightweight-trail-shoes.html
> 
> 5.10/Adidas may have made the fast dry bike shoe I was looking for. Hard to say from pics only, but it's promising enough I'll get a pair and try them out.


Oh, man, that shoe might be the ticket for me, at least for summer riding. I wanna know how this shoe shakes out!


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

TECHAMPHIBIAN 4
Saloman

Working for me,
well enough, that I bought them a second time.

https://www.salomon.com/en-int/shop-emea/product/techamphibian-4.html#848=13445


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## AbnInf (Dec 1, 2010)

https://www.showerspass.com/products/lightweight-waterproof-socks-crosspoint-camo


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## Affe (Dec 4, 2007)

vikb said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-five-ten-drops-2-lightweight-trail-shoes.html
> 
> 5.10/Adidas may have made the fast dry bike shoe I was looking for. Hard to say from pics only, but it's promising enough I'll get a pair and try them out.


Nice!

I recently bought my second pair of 5.10 Access Mesh shoes. Haven't really soaked them so don't know how quick they dry but I would guess quicker with the mesh. I like them a lot. Easily the best mtb shoes I've had. Breathe well. I use them everiday for commuting and walking and great for day hikes as well.

I would assume these new ones you have found will work equally as well and might dry even quicker. Let us know how you like them!

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## Affe (Dec 4, 2007)

vikb said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-five-ten-drops-2-lightweight-trail-shoes.html
> 
> 5.10/Adidas may have made the fast dry bike shoe I was looking for. Hard to say from pics only, but it's promising enough I'll get a pair and try them out.


Did you get these?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Affe said:


> Did you get these?


No. I haven't seen them for sale anywhere I shop to date. I don't see them on the 5.10 website yet either. I do plan on getting a pair of the low cut version and see what they are like.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Progress. 5.10/Adidas has the high top version of these shoes for sale on their US site:

https://www.adidasoutdoor.com/five-...FBE59_color=Black&cgid=fiveten-men-bike-shoes

Hopefully that means us dirty Canadians can buy some of the low top version in 2020.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

One thing about any serious bikepacking trip is your feet are going to get wet. If you;'re on the Tour Divide its guaranteed. 

I've been using Keen sandals but I wear wool socks and have waterproof socks on tap. Despite having ridden 1000's of miles on the TDR not had any rocks get in but that could happen. The missing bit IMO is the pedal- I use Pedaling Innovations Catalysts, which I found give me the same ability to climb as SPDs with cleats but I don't get numb toes.

This last year I get asked several times if my feet get cold. Even with HAB through snow they don't- but in such cases I'm wearing both pair of socks. Usually my feet get too hot...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

vikb said:


> Progress. 5.10/Adidas has the high top version of these shoes for sale on their US site:
> 
> https://www.adidasoutdoor.com/five-...FBE59_color=Black&cgid=fiveten-men-bike-shoes
> 
> Hopefully that means us dirty Canadians can buy some of the low top version in 2020.


More progress both versions of these Adidas shoes available at a vendor I use....just not in my size. Hopefully that means I'll be able to get a pair this summer. 

*Update: Jenson has the low cut version available for order [in stock ~22 May 2020] now. Finally!* 

https://www.jensonusa.com/Five-Ten-TrailCross-SL-2020


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## Affe (Dec 4, 2007)

Eagerly waiting for the update!

I wonder how the sizings goin to be. When i ordered my Access Mesh fiveten advised to go half EU size larger than my Freeriders. Fit perfectly. Now i cant even find an email address to mail my question to on adidas site... didnt look too hard though...

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Affe said:


> Eagerly waiting for the update!
> 
> I wonder how the sizings goin to be. When i ordered my Access Mesh fiveten advised to go half EU size larger than my Freeriders. Fit perfectly. Now i cant even find an email address to mail my question to on adidas site... didnt look too hard though...


*Initial thoughts:*

- this is a trail runner style shoe with a biking rubber sole
- light construction looks to ventilate and drain/dry well
- that also means it'll get wet fast and not be a warm shoe in cool weather
- limited protection while biking due to light construction
- the fit is narrower and longer than other 5.10 shoes I own
- style is stealth enough you can wear them without screaming I ride mountain bikes!

I normally wear 11.5US men's in 5.10s and ordered the same size in this model. The shoe is a bit longer than "normal" for that size in 5.10s. Some people will want to size down a half size, but I wouldn't say that's automatic. I think that would result in a shoe that's too short for me or at least it would be close enough I'd be worried about that. I don't think the extra length will be a problem for me, but I guess we'll see 2hrs into a HAB how I feel. I do wish a shoe brand would keep their freaking sizing consistent across all models. Especially in this age of online shopping.

Sizing aside they seem like the answer to the issue of a bikepacking shoes that breathes better and dries faster than a typical 5.10. I can't fault anything about the shoe at first glance. I'll be using them on some tours this summer and will circle back once I have some field time with them.

They are light duty enough I wouldn't grab these shoes for our typical techy Coastal BC trail rides. I'd want something like a normal 5.10 that had more protection for my feet and was built from more durable materials.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

So I've worn the Adidas Trailcross LT a bunch. Not for any bikepacking or trail riding, but around town and some hiking. I've run into a couple issues that have made them unappealing for demanding use. 

The first issue is the aftermarket insoles I use in all my shoes don't work in these shoes. I can remove the stock insoles and put my aftermarket insoles in the Trailcross LTs, but it raises my heel just slightly and the heel cup no longer holds my heel securely. As soon as I go back to the stock insoles that issue disappears.

The second problem is that the shoe is super flexible. Especially with the stock insole there is very little support/motion control. I'd almost go so far as to call it slipper like. Contrasting it another way I think of OG 5.10 Freeriders as pretty flexible shoes with great pedal feel. The Trail Cross LTs are nowhere near as supportive/protective as the OG Freeriders.

So we are sort of back to a water shoe. Cool and dries fast at the expense of support/protection. The Salomon Tech Amphibians had more support/protection as a contrast to another water shoe If that sounds right up your alley you'll be inclined to like the Trail Cross LTs. The LTs do have that nice 5.10 rubber bike pedal friendly sole though.

Personally that's just not enough shoe for me to want to take it on a demanding trip. I'm just going to burn up these shoes riding around town and doing some longboard pushing.


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## lentamentalisk (Jul 21, 2015)

Huh, that is really disappointing. Sounds like the soles are weak enough that if you were doing a lot of rock scrambling you'd feel the pointy rocks through everything. Yes, it is important for your shoe to be flexible enough to conform to the rocks, but not to the extent that your feet are getting beat up inside. Particularly since river crossings usually involve a lot of feeling around blindly with your feet on big nasty river rocks.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lentamentalisk said:


> Huh, that is really disappointing. Sounds like the soles are weak enough that if you were doing a lot of rock scrambling you'd feel the pointy rocks through everything. Yes, it is important for your shoe to be flexible enough to conform to the rocks, but not to the extent that your feet are getting beat up inside. Particularly since river crossings usually involve a lot of feeling around blindly with your feet on big nasty river rocks.


No I wouldn't go that far. I haven't had any issues feeling stuff through the soles, but there is No protection around your foot. So if you slam the front or side of your foot into a sharp rock you'll feel it.

Your foot can roll side to side as there is very limited structure to this shoe. Some people
don't have an issue with that so I am not panning the shoes for everyone. But, I need a bit more shoe to be happy exploring and dealing with challenging HABs.

If you are okay with a bike friendly water shoe or light trail runner I think you'll be happy with the Trail Cross LT.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

What's a bit sad is I grabbed a pair of the previous version of this shoe under the Adidas brand on close out. I haven't worn them out in the wild yet, but it's much stiffer and looks like it will offer better support. I suspect I'll like it a whole lot more than the current version, but of course you can't buy it anymore unless you luck out with some NOS. Story of my life. Find something that looks great and the product gets "improved". :eekster:

Although to be fair the old version doesn't look like it will dry as fast as the new version...but it does look like it would dry faster than my usual 5.10's. So it could be a good compromise.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Timely to see this thread again. Had a REALLY wet ride the other day where I was really wishing for shoes that drained. Took days for my wife and I's Freeriders (hers are OG, mine are Contact) to dry out afterwards. 

It was just a normal trail ride, but wet as hell. Water gushing out of the mountain in places I've never seen. Creek crossings I usually ride through and stay (mostly) dry on were deep enough that your feet got submerged whether you rode through or not (so I just walked). And, the ride involved some chunky, rowdy descents so some level of sole stiffness is critical to avoiding foot fatigue from the pounding. Also, having at least a little bit of protection and lateral support is kinda important, I agree.

Doesn't sound like I could wear those Trail Cross shoes. Not to mention, the fit sounds like it would not jive with my feet. Such a shame.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Found this thread after my ride this past weekend.

I was on my CX riding in a WMA, came to a wide creek crossing with a very muddy lead-in with no easy way to avoid. Decided to remove my shoes and socks and roll my bike across, careful to keep my hubs above water. The egg-sized rocks hurt the soles of my feet. Opposite side was equally muddy. Scraped the mud off my toes with a stick the best I could and waited a few minutes for my feet to dry a little. The worse part was the bike has mini-Vs so I had to listen to the horrible noises every time I braked.

I looped around and ended up going back the way I came and this time, I kept my shoes and socks on, shouldered the bike and waded through. The wet feet didn't bother me at all the rest of the ride, though it was only a few miles.

I was wearing my old clipless mountain bike shoes. Next time I'll probably be on my hardtail with Chesters (all my mtbs have flats now). So trying to decide if I should buy some water shoes or just wear my 5-10s. Maybe I'll buy some new 5-10s and keep the old ones for wet rides.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Salubrious said:


> One thing about any serious bikepacking trip is your feet are going to get wet. If you;'re on the Tour Divide its guaranteed.
> 
> I've been using Keen sandals but I wear wool socks and have waterproof socks on tap. Despite having ridden 1000's of miles on the TDR not had any rocks get in but that could happen. The missing bit IMO is the pedal- I use Pedaling Innovations Catalysts, which I found give me the same ability to climb as SPDs with cleats but I don't get numb toes.
> 
> This last year I get asked several times if my feet get cold. Even with HAB through snow they don't- but in such cases I'm wearing both pair of socks. Usually my feet get too hot...


Vik is talking about mountain biking, and hiking, on technical trails.

You're talking about gravel grinding on a bunch of wide, non-technical dirt roads.

Can you really not see the difference?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

vikb said:


> *Initial thoughts:*
> 
> - this is a trail runner style shoe with a biking rubber sole


Is this all in reference to the shoes pictured in your post #92 above?


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## JarvisSkooge (Jun 8, 2020)

*One word... Crocs.*

Love em or hate em, they are all I ever wear during warm weather trips. During trips in colder weather I strap them to my OMM rack.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mikesee said:


> Is this all in reference to the shoes pictured in your post #92 above?












Sorry Mike. I didn't see this question until now. I was referring to these shoes.

https://www.jensonusa.com/Five-Ten-TrailCross-SL-2020


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My initial reaction to these shoes wasn't as positive as I expected. So I ended up putting them back in their box and left them alone for a few months. I ended up pulling them out again with a fresh perspective and tried them with more success the second time around. So I wanted to post about my current thoughts to give them a fair shake.

What changed?

Over the last few months I've spent a lot of time in some very flexible skateboard shoes pushing a longboard around 20-70kms at a time. I also started trail running in lightly structured shoes. For both these activities I haven't been using my normal aftermarket insoles. This has been a big departure from what I've done in the past in terms of how I have been using my feet. So when I went back to the 5.10 Trailcross SLs my feet were much more accustomed to less structure/support. I also just stuck with the stock 5.10 minimal insoles instead of trying to make my aftermarket insoles work. This kept my foot slightly, but noticeably lower in the shoe for better stability on demanding terrain.

I've used these shoes for some steep techy hiking and some non-tech flat pedal riding this spring. So far I am much happier with them and I am glad I gave them another try. They are still very light/flexible shoes and wearing aftermarket insoles didn't work for me [raised my heel up slightly which led to even less stability when hiking]. So if those are things that matter to you they may still not work, but I can at least see myself happy with these shoes on a more demanding bikepacking trip where fast drying footwear matters. I wouldn't wear these for straight up techy MTBing. The lack of structure/support means I can feel the pedal a lot more than in a dedicated 5.10 MTB flat pedal shoe which gets tiring/uncomfortable for extended descending in particular.

My previous pairs of bikepacking shoes wore out so I binned them and I am going to put these 5.10's into rotation and see what happens.


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## ransom208 (Mar 31, 2021)

Lightweight Waders (Thigh High)


Manufacturer of the finest sleeping bags and outdoor gear in the world. Nothing keeps you you warm & dry in cold, wet conditions like Wiggy's!




www.wiggys.com





super light(10 oz with storage bag) just pull over, cross, pull off, throw on rack and peddle away. people have been using them in alaska and idaho for decades.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Can't remember if these were posted upthread. 
Just got our Outside Magazine summer buyer's guide. Top of the list for hikes with lots of stream crossings: Astral TR1, mesh with a lugged sole. 
Also at REI. 
Spendy at $125 or so, but could get a 20% coupon periodically available to REI COOP members. 
Women's is the Astral TR1 Loop.


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

vikb said:


> My initial reaction to these shoes wasn't as positive as I expected. So I ended up putting them back in their box and left them alone for a few months. I ended up pulling them out again with a fresh perspective and tried them with more success the second time around. So I wanted to post about my current thoughts to give them a fair shake.
> 
> What changed?
> 
> ...


I also tried 5.10 Trailcross - this same model - on the AZTR 300. (I ended up crashing and going to the hospital - but that's another story!). I love the concept. They were extremely grippy on the pedals just like you would expect. They are also super breathable. But like any shoe, if the foot bed isn't right for your foot shape it's not going to work. For anyone considering them, just be aware that these shoes have a much narrower/longer toe area than the classic five tens. I have short toes that splay out when I walk, and therefore I ended up with blackened pinky toenails from the no-joke scrambly hike/climb a bike on the AZT. Also, my ankle/heel area was swimming in them, which meant my heel was slipping up. These could be a great option - but make sure your feet have wide heels and narrow, long toes.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

shredchic said:


> For anyone considering them, just be aware that these shoes have a much narrower/longer toe area than the classic five tens.


Yes I think this ^^ is what catches people off guard. They are Adidas trail runners with 5.10 MTB soles on them. They aren't a 5.10 shoe besides the logo. Now that Adidas owns 5.10 the "5.10 fit" will eventually mean something else than it does to a lot of people used to the older style of shoes 5.10 used to make.


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