# MTBR Spotlight Article: HID (and other) Bike Lights!



## gregg (Sep 30, 2000)

We are proud to announce a new and informative article in our Spotlight section called the MTBR Lights Shine-Off!

We did some tests and comparison of the latest HID lights and a few other popular non-HID models as well.

Read the article here:

http://www.mtbr.com/spotlight/lightshootout/

Please post your opinions, comments or general thoughts about the article here!

Thanks for checking it out.

-gregg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edit 2006-10-20 by CraigH

Previous light comparison, mostly Halogen
http://www.mtbr.com/spotlight/lights/

Discussion thread about the older spotlight thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=1800

Light Reviews:
http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/lights/


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Great article Gregg...*

I am sure this will become one of those frequently viewed areas like the Brake FAQ area. Good to see that MTBR is still producing stuff that will help the inquiring minds.

TJ



gregg said:


> We are proud to announce a new and informative article in our Spotlight section called the MTBR Lights Shine-Off!
> 
> We did some tests and comparison of the latest HID lights and a few other popular non-HID models as well.
> 
> ...


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## dudeman (Jan 15, 2004)

*Very Cool Stuff*



gregg said:


> We are proud to announce a new and informative article in our Spotlight section called the MTBR Lights Shine-Off!
> 
> We did some tests and comparison of the latest HID lights and a few other popular non-HID models as well.
> 
> ...


GREAT COMPARISON PIECE!! The pictures of the light patterns is something you can't get anywhere else. Nice work.


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## Fett (Jan 6, 2004)

*Feeling Pretty Good about my Turbocats*

I have a Turbocat S47 bar light and a TG15 helmet light, both halogens. I have always felt like I was never at a disadvantage over my friends who are largely using Niterider and L&M HID lights. It seemed as if I was putting out at least as much light, but the comparison seems to confirms my subjective observations. Turbocat really does make a high quality product. Their beam pattern seems to be very good.

I do concede my runtime is not as long as the HIDs, but our night rides usually average around 2 hours and neither light has died yet on the trail, so it is largely irrelevant.


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## Dude (Jan 12, 2004)

*Thanks this is great*

Thanks for the update this is a great article.

-Dude


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## bhutata (Jan 13, 2004)

Just got my CygoLite Hi-Lux 30 a few months ago and I'll admit I'm still curious how it stacks up against a lot of the other stuff on the market. I don't have much opportunity to go out and compare with other lights around here at night. I have no idea where it would fit in on your test. I just know it seemed to be the best I could afford at the time (about $100).


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## moonraker (Jan 22, 2004)

*Why no Lupine Lights?*

I have seen nothing that compares to the Lupine lights. Just ask world 24 hour champion Chris Eatough what he likes best. check out Mt. Gretna Mountain Bikes


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

*Jet beam pattern confusion?*

I'm writing because I think that the article needs some clarification on a couple of the beam comparisons. I would like to clarify the images of the Jet lights in particular. The M6 is really a bar light, at least according to the Jet web site. The Jet Phantom SB Beam is really a helmet light, at least according to the Jet web site. This is where it looks confusing; the actual light beams almost seem reversed. The Phantom picture looks great, but is that really a helmet light picture? It better compares to the TurboCat S47 bar light for example. The M6 also looks more like a helmet light, not a bar light. Did anybody else think this looked a little strange?


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## GonzoKY (Feb 7, 2004)

Something that needed to be added to the article is the cost of replacement bulbs. 
Halogen bulbs: $5-$20
HID: $80.


Something that seems to be popular with the light manufacturers is increasing the voltage to increase light output. Increasing the voltage by 10% (12 volts to 13.2 volts) increases lumen output by 42%, but as we know nothing is free. This extra light output comes at a price. Life. The filaments only makes 40% of ratedlife (from 3000 hours to 1200 hours).


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## Kley (Feb 19, 2004)

*On/Off switch*



gregg said:


> We are proud to announce a new and informative article in our Spotlight section called the MTBR Lights Shine-Off!
> 
> We did some tests and comparison of the latest HID lights and a few other popular non-HID models as well.
> 
> ...


I did a 24 hour race last October, and one my biggest complaint, was the on/off switch button on both the NightRider and Light and Motion HID lights. Besides the 10-15 second delay or whatever, there was something funky going on. It appear to me like the on-off switch needed to be improve? anybody else share the same experience with these lights?
Also found the NightRider reflector panel?? the thing just behind the bulb, is very fragile, is made of glass or something. It broke on me on a small crash.

Good arcticle I wish I had some literature like this earlier. Thanks


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## babar vip (Mar 20, 2004)

good news is that most of laptop li-ion battery are 10.8 or 11.1volts which means that you could use it on your Light & Motion ARC HID.
The only issue that I have is to find the same 3 pins connectors used by L&M???
Who knows where to find it?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Kley said:


> I did a 24 hour race last October, and one my biggest complaint, was the on/off switch button on both the NightRider and Light and Motion HID lights. Besides the 10-15 second delay or whatever, there was something funky going on. It appear to me like the on-off switch needed to be improve? anybody else share the same experience with these lights?
> Also found the NightRider reflector panel?? the thing just behind the bulb, is very fragile, is made of glass or something. It broke on me on a small crash.
> 
> Good arcticle I wish I had some literature like this earlier. Thanks


i tested both of the aforementioned systems and had similar problems with new units. The on/off switches are just too finicky ao I settled on a Lupine which has a better beam than either anyway.

why was the Topeak, Cateye, Lupine, Lumicycles and others left out of the test. Seems to me like the article on HID's served to market american products only when there are other products available. I'd like to see those tested as well before I can view this article as balanced.


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## Haroow (Mar 10, 2004)

*I like*

I like the beam comparison, it helps define what is wanted...and not having to wait and beats lookin in the shop.. I would like to see how th code 15 or 25 vistlite faired..I sitlluse mine and am looking for more nightsticks...I am not electrically inclined...to build my own.


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## Eddie O (Aug 20, 2004)

*Lupine vs L&M*



moonraker said:


> I have seen nothing that compares to the Lupine lights. Just ask world 24 hour champion Chris Eatough what he likes best. check out Mt. Gretna Mountain Bikes


My 2 cents:

I have used both in races and would say they are very similar in wieght, beam pattern, construction quality and burn time. All these things being equal, I next looked at price. This is where the big difference appears. Lupine is about twice as much as L&M for basically the same product. I went with L&M and have no complaints from two 12s, two 24s and numerous training nighties this year.

Eddie O


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Eddie O said:


> My 2 cents:
> 
> I have used both in races and would say they are very similar in wieght, beam pattern, construction quality and burn time. All these things being equal, I next looked at price. This is where the big difference appears. Lupine is about twice as much as L&M for basically the same product. I went with L&M and have no complaints from two 12s, two 24s and numerous training nighties this year.
> 
> Eddie O


sorry but I think you're very much mistaken.
My LBS lent me a Edison 5 and a L&M ARC on the same night to do a test so I could decide on which light I wanted.
The L&M hs a nice smooth beam with a very small very hot centre. It's run time is 3.5hrs maximum if you use the conservative 11W setting and 3hrs at 13W.

enter the Lupine Edison:
The bea has a bigger hot spot in the centre but does not reach as far down the trail. The beam also covers the same area as the L&M. However even at 10W (low setting) it is brighter than the L&M!! an then when you switch it too High beam or 16W it literally drowns the L&M's beam.

The run times for these models are similar but I decided to purchase the Lupine Edison 10 which has an 8hr run time on LOW!!

IME the Lupine is much better system with better beam but the L&M is better value for money.
The Lupine has superb features though and coupled to the reliability of the system - the L&M would not restart after a 30min puncture break!! - I would take the Lupine ove the L&M again purely for safety.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Check out this new model from the folks at USE. SLED technology.

http://www.exposurelights.com/exposure_spec.htm


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Bigwheel said:


> Check out this new model from the folks at USE. SLED technology.
> 
> http://www.exposurelights.com/exposure_spec.htm


heard about those and apparently people who have sen them in action are impressed. This is on British forums though an they have a habit of plugging their own stuff.
Wait until the working models are released.
I'm no convinced they're as good as we'reeing LED to believe...


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

Brad said:


> sorry but I think you're very much mistaken.
> My LBS lent me a Edison 5 and a L&M ARC on the same night to do a test so I could decide on which light I wanted.
> The L&M hs a nice smooth beam with a very small very hot centre. It's run time is 3.5hrs maximum if you use the conservative 11W setting and 3hrs at 13W.
> 
> ...


The Edison 10 is a killer light system. Very reliable. I think the width of the beam is great, I couldn't imagine requiring a wider beam to be honest. The low setting is great, and I find I use that most times. High is great though - really bright.

I have done more night riding with my Lupines than I have ever done in the past, and I have only had them for a few months.

Great choice in light.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Trevor! said:


> The Edison 10 is a killer light system. Very reliable. I think the width of the beam is great, I couldn't imagine requiring a wider beam to be honest. The low setting is great, and I find I use that most times. High is great though - really bright.
> 
> I have done more night riding with my Lupines than I have ever done in the past, and I have only had them for a few months.
> 
> Great choice in light.


SO you have more than One edison then??

it must be great riding with two Edison's


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## MoeChedda (Aug 23, 2004)

*Cygolite Z-Force*

Great article...

Although the Cygolite Z-Force (HID) wasn't in the comparison, I can tell you after running them for nearly a year, they're the bomb. My buddy and I picked them up for $204 online. They're sweet -- handlebar mount. We went with the nicad battery without the smart charger -- though I wish I would've opted for the lithium with smart charger for around $60 more. Nonetheless, I'm real happy with these -- they're the shiznit! Battery life is great and consistent also.

Moe




gregg said:


> We are proud to announce a new and informative article in our Spotlight section called the MTBR Lights Shine-Off!
> 
> We did some tests and comparison of the latest HID lights and a few other popular non-HID models as well.
> 
> ...


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

Brad said:


> SO you have more than One edison then??
> 
> it must be great riding with two Edison's


Sorry I always refer to my Lupine light in the plural.

Only have one, mounted on my helmet. 2 would be total overkill.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Trevor! said:


> Sorry I always refer to my Lupine light in the plural.
> 
> Only have one, mounted on my helmet. 2 would be total overkill.


I'm beginning to believe that two can be total overkill.

I use mine on the bars now purely because it is safer forthe light to be there in the event of an accident than on my nogin.

I've recently aquired a Nightlightning Endurenz for my helmet and it is simply perfect compliment to the Edison.
I get around 8hrs out of both systems the Endurenz is not nearly as bright but bright enough to provide perfect contrast of the trail and make everything seem more realistic and not the lsightly white washed that the Edison makes it look.

Highly recomend you look intot this system.

http://www.nightlightning.co.nz


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## Big K (Feb 2, 2004)

*Lupine Stuby*

October issue of Bicycling (I know this mag = uncool to some but I like it) featured a lighting review. In addition to Niterider and Nightsun, they also reviewed the Lupine Stuby... pretty good marks for a bar-mount and in the "money is no object" category. Anybody have expereince with this light? I'd be interested to know what beam pattern it throws and the color of the light since my preference is more toward the HID end of the spectrum. Can you buy Lupine anywhere besides from Gretna?

Thanks


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## PoKev (Mar 4, 2004)

*Great job............*

Thanks for the work guys. Picked up a Jet Phantom 20W (w/step down control 15w - 10w) and an I13 @ 20W which can also be stepped down. Light brightness and dispersion are phenomenal. Pics simply confirm.........IMHO that is  .

Kevin


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

I've heard great things about Lume, but based on that test the Lume Strada HID's beam pattern flat out sucks. Even their wide beam model was more of a spot light than any of the other lights. I find this suprising considering all the good things I've heard about Lume.


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## wallybrau (Sep 24, 2004)

Message posted incorrectly


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## wallybrau (Sep 24, 2004)

*Jet Lites*

[Does anyone know whether the picture of the Jet Lite Phanthom was taken of the 12W version or the 20W version? Everything on this website show 12/20 but they are 2 seperate products.


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## paddlefoot64 (Jun 5, 2004)

I just ordered a Phantom 20W from MHC. Can't wait to use it. The photos from the light test convinced me.


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## AgentHubcap (Jul 24, 2004)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> I'm writing because I think that the article needs some clarification on a couple of the beam comparisons. I would like to clarify the images of the Jet lights in particular. The M6 is really a bar light, at least according to the Jet web site. The Jet Phantom SB Beam is really a helmet light, at least according to the Jet web site. This is where it looks confusing; the actual light beams almost seem reversed. The Phantom picture looks great, but is that really a helmet light picture? It better compares to the TurboCat S47 bar light for example. The M6 also looks more like a helmet light, not a bar light. Did anybody else think this looked a little strange?


Bump for more info. I'm looking at the Jet Phantom SB specifically because the beam pattern looks awesome in the pics...


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## BobRocket (Jul 19, 2004)

*Make yer own*

http://www.bikelight.blogspot.com

This setup rocks. 100W for about $40 bucks.

Giddyup!


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## glenzx (Dec 19, 2003)

babar vip said:


> good news is that most of laptop li-ion battery are 10.8 or 11.1volts which means that you could use it on your Light & Motion ARC HID.
> The only issue that I have is to find the same 3 pins connectors used by L&M???
> Who knows where to find it?


On a dead L&M battery! 

I tried last year to find the hardware - can't get it!


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## sstaurus (Jan 18, 2004)

Wow, that shot of the TurboCat blew me away! I generally thought L&M was the best but that S47 looks like daylight. I ordered a ToPeak light...but it still hasn't gotten here yet. Can't wait to try nightriding.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Keep in mind that the S47 is a two beam setup and costs accordingly as much. The others, to the best of my knowledge, are single beam.


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## 1speed_Mike (Jan 27, 2004)

Big K said:


> October issue of Bicycling (I know this mag = uncool to some but I like it) featured a lighting review. In addition to Niterider and Nightsun, they also reviewed the Lupine Stuby... pretty good marks for a bar-mount and in the "money is no object" category. Anybody have expereince with this light? I'd be interested to know what beam pattern it throws and the color of the light since my preference is more toward the HID end of the spectrum. Can you buy Lupine anywhere besides from Gretna?
> 
> Thanks


The Stuby has been discontinued. The new Otto with 20 LEDs is, according to Mike @ Lupine, "much brighter than the 26 old LEDs of the Stuby".

Yes, you can buy Lupines elsewhere....just check their site. In fact, I distribute them in Canada. But, having dealt with Bill and Jud at Gretna in the past (that's where I originally got my Eddy 10 with extra 5.5 Li-Ion battery 3-yrs ago...man, time flies!), I'm not about to undercut them....they treated me very well and I will treat them accordingly.


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## Sthenic (Nov 18, 2004)

I just found a helmet mounted HID motorcycle light for $130, and can buy the Li-ion battery and charger for about $66 on a separate site. The switch for the light has a soft start for the HID. It really looks like a nice system. I would guess that it's durable and bright as it's made for off roading. I also like that it's a complete package and don't have to worry that some thing I've patched together won't work. The battery is light, and supposedly will run it for about 4.5 hrs. One of my worries is that I can't tell if it's a spot or flood light. Any other possible problems?


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## Filthcycles (Dec 14, 2004)

*Vicious Arc LiIon*

Just seen on
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2004/news/nov30
The new Vicious Power arc and was wondering when there would be a review of it or if someone has ridden with it?
I saw a sponsored 24hr rider win a recent event here in Australia with the system and it is insane how featherweight it is compared to others on the market yet still puts out more light!
Just wondering if any one has got one yet. 
Cheers
Filth


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

There have been a few prototypes floating about this year, but they were having trouble with suppliers for a couple of their components. I think Saul Britton, Josh Street and a couple of others have been racing on the prototypes with great success.

All is good now though, and they are now in full production. I know little about the light itself, but from what I've heard it sounds like a good setup for endurance racing.

There was a small review of a prototype in the first edition of the aussie based "Enduro" magazine.

http://www.viciouspower.com/

http://viciouspower.com/ViciousArc.htm

Cheers, Dave.

EDIT:

Just lifted the following from their site: (in AUS dollars)



> Pricing.
> 
> An introductory pricing scheme is in place.
> 
> ...


Ouch!! Fair enough you get a fair bit with it, but it's a little expensive..... I guess aussie Lupine Owners and the like are spending around that kind of money for their systems though. Would be interesting to see some beam shots, or even better, a unit in real life.


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## meat tooth paste (Sep 7, 2004)

This light comparo article was very helpful. Thanks!

I picked up a Niterider HID after looking at these test and am very happy with my Storm 2.0.


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## Filthcycles (Dec 14, 2004)

*Vicious Arc Rocks!!!*

I got one with two battery packs. My Cateye stadium 3 is now packed in a box some where! What more can I say! This thing is smaller brighter and lighter then all the rest it certainly raises the bar on the competition! Worth every cent!



Low_Rider said:


> There have been a few prototypes floating about this year, but they were having trouble with suppliers for a couple of their components. I think Saul Britton, Josh Street and a couple of others have been racing on the prototypes with great success.
> 
> All is good now though, and they are now in full production. I know little about the light itself, but from what I've heard it sounds like a good setup for endurance racing.
> 
> ...


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## VertriderChef (Feb 25, 2005)

*Howdy from Innsbruck/Austria*

Hello all!

Very nice beam comparison on the different lamps - congratulations to MTBR. All I can say is that Lupine lights have totally changed our way of riding, all year, after work. Sure all of us have started with different lights in the past decade (incl. the old famous Nightsun, Specialized Halogen light, PETZL and other stuff). But US made lights were always hard to get here. and the PETZL (popular amongst climbers and mountaineers) are not the lamps of choice for epic night freeriding.

Well, then we got word of Lupine lamps. 6 yrs ago we have been 4 riders with our first Lupine Nightmare systems, now we are about 60 riders in Innsbrucks freeriding and marathon scene only, all using Lupine lights. And more and more people from other sports (Hiking, Backcountry-Skiing, Snowboarding, Climbing) are changing to Lupine. you can't get more light, power and failure safety out of a lightning system. alone the engineering that goes into a Lupine halogen bulb and its wendel construction is outstanding. I don't think a lot of other manufacturers pay as much attention to detail as Lupine does.

A lot of the threads here are right when they say that Lupine lights are quite expensive, but that's true only if you look on the high end model EDISON (not true if you look on the no compromise technology and commitment that's built into it).

But there's no need to go super high end when you still can have premium high end at a reasonable price. About 95% of the riders here still use the Nightmare (Pro) models (which are also sold most at the dealers here), and are happy with it - the Lupine Nightmare models cost about 360 Euros including the helmet mount and helmet cable. And they have proven powerful, battery efficient (perfect battery management), and reliable on the most extreme night mountainbike freerides imaginable. MTBR has a little bit failed in telling that the Lupine's use a 8 MHz RISC processor that controls all the stats on the battery and the light signal itself (which is a pulsed light), and every ramp of the pulse is checked on the battery and the burner.

Two of us use Edisons - of course by far the strongest bicycle light I have ever seen - but that takes it's price because it's not a ordinary xenon light with ordinary electronics - it's a masterpiece of manufacturing.

However, the new Otto 8 could cut future Nightmare sales - seldom have I tested such a versatile light (I am proud to say that the idea to that LED/HP combination came to Lupine from Innsbrucks Vertrider community 4 years ago). it simply eliminates the need for a separate LED light to safe battery power on long continuous uphills (2hrs or more, typical for the Innsbruck area, then a 1 to 1,5 downhill or longer) by combining a quite poverful LED cluster to a proven 25W HP light.

And in the rare case the battery goes low you can still ride for hours with the LED on the Otto 8 (slow though, but you can) or simply safe your ass off a dark and windy remote mountain chain.

Again, Lupine lights have changed the way we ride here and when we ride, forever and with substance. Lupine lights don't have this superstrong fan community here because they are cool - but because they simply do their job as best as possible at a given technology level and are reliable under all circumstances.

Those lights are a lifetime investment with the quality and engineering of a mercedes benz. check out www.vertriders.com for great images on Nightriding - > Nightriding Special at the "news" section. The site is in german only (sorry) but the pictures say more than 1000 words.

we also have a cool nightriding trailer in our "multimedia" section dubbed the "blair bike project". have fun.

cheers
christoph

ps: the reasons why we have all switched to helmet mounts when they were finally available at Lupine are
- Lupine's are more than enough powerful to eliminate the need of a second light (however two EDISONS is a nice idea, but proably CIA and FBI will be after you soon looking for that alien light phenomen in those black forests)
- you look where you ride
- the head is the most stable part on a mountainbike/rider "assembly"
- batteries can be kept warm in the backpack (during winter we do a lot of freezerides with temps lower than - 15 degree (bicycle standing) and up to - 40 degree (bicycle moving - windchill), so with a camelbak filled with hot tea one can keep the battery warm and burning times stable)

ps2: we had a mountaineering rescue team looking after us two years ago in late fall. stupid us was a group of freeriders doing a epic nightride on a clear moon & stars night, right above innsbruck. it is a city of 128000, and on a clear night Lupine lights can be seen for kilometers from the city, especially on the mountains near to it. so a lot of people were calling them about that "light train" on that mountain, and finally they went up to look after it, and were very surpised to see freeriders on bikes. since then we have either announced bigger nightrides to the central mountain rescue service (dubbed "night hikes" ;o) or done them at foggy nights.


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## Big K (Feb 2, 2004)

*I share your passion..*

I bought an Edison last fall and agree with you about what a great investment they are! The problem for Lupine is that they have a relatively high starting price point (in euros) and the weak dollar adds to the pain for potential American customers. As for me, I'm glad I spent the extra cash for what I consider to be a lifetime investment.

Nice pics on the web site... looks like a fun winter ride! Unfortunately, Ich verstehe nicht!


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## VertriderChef (Feb 25, 2005)

Big K said:


> Nice pics on the web site... looks like a fun winter ride! Unfortunately, Ich verstehe nicht!


Hey Big K,

thanks for the post. it's interesting to see Lupine selling in the US, they have come a long way. besides Germany/Austria/CH etc. they do very strong in England now. Did you know that they started with cave diving lightning systems? besides other things your life depends on good lights on cave dives too... freaks as they are, they transferred the technology to mountainbike lights when the started to mountainbike years ago.

I've got a strong cold these days so I might spend the weekend in front of the computer fine tuning the website instead of going nightriding on snowy sledruns!!! aaargh.

Altough I will proably never have the time to translate the whole Vertriders.com project into english, what would help you to navigate through the site better? maybe a "next >>>" link would be better to navigate the pages instead of the german words... don't know.

thanks for any suggestions on that... (if you like, to [email protected])

does a translation of the content on google or altavista help or does it just produce nonsense? (I guess, because mountainbike speak is not in the DUDEN)

cheers,
christoph


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## Big K (Feb 2, 2004)

*Video?*

Maybe being able to read isn't the point... can you link us to some video? It's cool to see what other people are doing for winter rides and what kinds of gear they are using.

Thanks.


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## VertriderChef (Feb 25, 2005)

*Video Link*

Ok, here's a direct link:

http://www.vertriders.com/multimedia_downloads.htm

by the way, if you want pass by the entry foto page (changes each week for a new ride) on the main portal just go to

http://www.vertriders.com/index2.htm

ok. the video page is in english and german.

the wmf-files (windows media player) are quite big (45 MB and 54 MB respectively) - apologies - but we decided to go bigger in respect for quality as 90% of the huge download figures we receive come from DSL or LAN.

about the videos:

"blair bike project" is a award winning video and a true nightriding session on one of the much sledruns to alm huts around innsbruck. nearly all riders use lupine lamps ;o)

"lichtenwald" on the other hand is a typical vertrider late season jam session. I hope to have one more video (lago di garda vertdays 04) by the end of the week up there.

with parts of "blair bike project" we also have been in austrian state television last year.

cheers
christoph
vertriders.com


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## pedaler845 (Jul 18, 2004)

*Z~Force*

I like my Cygolite Z-force alot. Had it a year now, HID,NiMH, smart charger. The one thing that irks me though is their packaging had big claims about a no memory battery, but the users manual stresses a few different times about how its crucial to drain the charge completely before recharging each time. The light's been exceptional and I'm almost recovered from spending $350 on it!


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

Happy to see the Edison 10 has been added.


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## DH_WP (Feb 5, 2004)

*DO you not find that a head mounted light*

causes the terrain to look flat ? , I tried riding with it mounted on my head but all the logs/rocks/and people I rode over all looked flat , hence me trying to go str8 over them.
I find that things look more natrual on the bar mount. Then again the head mounted light I was using is not the strongest.



Trevor! said:


> Sorry I always refer to my Lupine light in the plural.
> 
> Only have one, mounted on my helmet. 2 would be total overkill.


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## airman (Jan 13, 2004)

DH_WP said:


> causes the terrain to look flat ? , I tried riding with it mounted on my head but all the logs/rocks/and people I rode over all looked flat , hence me trying to go str8 over them.
> I find that things look more natrual on the bar mount. Then again the head mounted light I was using is not the strongest.


I like to use the helmet light to look farther ahead, or around the turns in singletrack. I use a flood handlebar mount to help me judge the terrain. It is still difficult under many circumstances since the ground looks washed out. You can see shadows with the bar light that you may not see using a helmet light. To each his own...

Cheers


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

DH_WP said:


> causes the terrain to look flat ? , I tried riding with it mounted on my head but all the logs/rocks/and people I rode over all looked flat , hence me trying to go str8 over them.
> I find that things look more natrual on the bar mount. Then again the head mounted light I was using is not the strongest.


Thats an incredibly good point to make. In general a light will make the terrain look flat as you loose some depth of field but I have found using the Edison that there is no issue. The beam is so broad and has a great bit of depth and is particularly white that I seem to have very few issues with regards perception.

For what it is worth, I can hardly bear to ride with lights on my bar. Never been happy with them on the bars.


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## scratch1080 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Budget*

I was wondering if an over the counter light for maybe 50$ is going to help out at all as a secondary light to a head lamp.

Very tight on funds with a race in a month.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

*I have jet lite*

I like the light comparison article. I have Jetlite analog version. It is not hight tech as digital but very reliable. It is dam bright. I don't need HID version. This is bike light not BMW


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## benoksanen (Aug 3, 2005)

*secondary lite suggestion*

A very cheap, but very heavy light is the NiteHawk Raptor ($35 at performancebike.com, 20% coupon available). Among friends we have about 6 of these setups, and they've held up over a year now (one got rusted contacts on battery). Hassle free charger works, bar mount easy. No helmet mount.


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## rick Barnes (Sep 4, 2005)

*LED Lighting*

http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/multisporters.htm

Just got one of these LED Lights, 4 hours of fantastic light and two customisable low light settings.

Ultra light ultra bright, just what I needed for the Kona Sleeples in the saddle 2005


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## Lumbee1 (Dec 16, 2004)

rick Barnes said:


> http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/multisporters.htm
> 
> Just got one of these LED Lights, 4 hours of fantastic light and two customisable low light settings.
> 
> Ultra light ultra bright, just what I needed for the Kona Sleeples in the saddle 2005


Rick, can you take pics of the system as well as beam pattern shots? I am really interested in the Endurenz lighting system. I would like to see what all was included in the kit as well as how much everything cost.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

This thread will give you an idea of size: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=58008

Please note that this was a custom build that I put together with parts from different companies / manufacturers, so it won't reflect the actual kit contents that you get off Eric.

The diameter of the light is about the same as a AAA cell, I can't remember the exact dimensions off the top of my head, but it's nice and small, not to mention incredibly light. Will measure it up tonight.

Eric can supply just the light head, controller board, or any of the parts if you want to tinker, but generally sells the light as a fully built unit, or as a complete kit which contains the light head, luxeons, optics, thermal paste, mounting brackets, cable, heat shrink, controller housing + controller, plugs, stickers, the works. You won't need to buy anything to put this light together, it's all provided for you. He also does custom lights if you're after a certain lighting solution.

Eric has been great to deal with, and is always prompt to return emails so it might be worth talking to him if you can't find the information on the site:

http://www.nightlightning.co.nz

I will have to post an update on my light with some detailed beamshots. Running a small Li-ion pack through a regulator built by George at taskled.com, I can get close to three hours of burn time, pushing this light a fair bit past 9 watts. 

My light seems to be about the same as a mate's 20 watt halogen, definitely no brighter, but the beam seems to illuminate things a lot, lot better, partly due to Eric's choice in optics, and also the "better then HID" colour temperature of the luxeons.

Will post an update soon... 

Cheers, Dave.


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## danoalb (Dec 19, 2005)

*Turbo Cat S47*

Looks like the Turbocat S47 has the best lighting by far out of all the lights including the Hid's from all the pictures I looked at. WoW is all I can say of the Turbocat.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

danoalb said:


> Looks like the Turbocat S47 has the best lighting by far out of all the lights including the Hid's from all the pictures I looked at. WoW is all I can say of the Turbocat.


Yea, but look at the burn time...50 minutes on high...Its like an afterburner


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## Roger G (Feb 10, 2005)

*Supernova*

Here I've found some nice night shots of Supernova HID Lights:
*http://www.supernova-lights.com/en/products/index.html*

The P99 seems to be a real killer and 2 hrs burn time @ 28 watts is pretty good, I think.


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

That Supernova X7 led/hid looks pretty cool...


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

The P99D appears to cost *800 £*

Thast $1500 USD folks:eekster: 
CDT


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## Roger G (Feb 10, 2005)

*The price of freedom*

Where did you see the GBP 800 ?
The P99-D costs *GBP 666.89* at Wiggle.co.uk. [666-  ]
Says $ 1080 on the US website.I wonder whether that is
still right, because 666 Pounds would be 1254 Dollars.
Maybe they forgot to raise the US prices?
The € price is like the British.

I think I'd take the X7 as well (if I had the money).
48 hrs of LED light is not bad if you get lost.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

Roger G said:


> Where did you see the GBP 800 ?
> The P99-D costs *GBP 666.89* at Wiggle.co.uk. [666-  ]
> Says $ 1080 on the US website.I wonder whether that is
> still right, because 666 Pounds would be 1254 Dollars.
> ...


I admit I averaged the two prices I saw here:
http://www.bikemagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/4377/v/2/sp
As it was the first site to pop up with google...:madman: 
Didnt delve into Wiggle.co.uk...
Still lots of dough


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

I love the controller / fuel gauge indication system – very cool. :thumbsup: But it is way overpriced no matter how good it is. 

To be honest there are many lighting manufacturers that are kidding themselves with the price they put on their systems. I would understand it if they did something truly different and innovative but there are only so many ways you can dress up a standard HID bulb and call it “unique”, slapping an astronomical price tag on it in the process. 

Dave.


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## Roger G (Feb 10, 2005)

*value*

Well, I know some guys who have built their own HID lights and they had to fork 
out_ a lot_ of money for their stuff, without getting a burn time indicator, a 
CNC-machined housing, high-quality batteries or overall reliability. I think, 
in the long run, such an expensive light will be better value than something cheap. 
It's only worth the dough if you use it a lot, of course. Or in races.


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## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*Lume's good, but...*



@dam said:


> I've heard great things about Lume, but based on that test the Lume Strada HID's beam pattern flat out sucks. Even their wide beam model was more of a spot light than any of the other lights. I find this suprising considering all the good things I've heard about Lume.


thier mounting system's better for road bikes.
have to use a phillips screw driver to switch from helmet to helmet or to h'bar.
battery mount's clumbsy for MTB rough trails.


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## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

http://www.jetlites.com/hid_helmet.html
Jet Blast HID $400
thinking about buying this as my 2nd light, for my helmet, to compliment my Lume 10w HID on my h'bar.
got any comments?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

*Nightlightning*

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the continuous updating of the Lights shootout. This thread is already the best reference for obtaining a quick overview of the lighting units available for sale and their performance, especially the Beam shots.

Could you please continually update this thread with more lights.
I'd be very interested to see how the;

Nightlightning Blaast, Digital Blaaast and Endurenz fair against the other lights.

Personal experience tells me it's the best LED bike available so perhaps you could do the leg work :thumbsup:

shot


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## jeremyp111 (Sep 13, 2006)

TrailNut said:


> http://www.jetlites.com/hid_helmet.html
> Jet Blast HID $400
> thinking about buying this as my 2nd light, for my helmet, to compliment my Lume 10w HID on my h'bar.
> got any comments?


It's an even better deal now. It just went on sale for $325! I may pick one up and put my JetLites Phantom 20w on the bar.

I'm very happy with the JetLites Phantom SB. It's my first light and I am very impressed with the quality of the components that make up the system. I decided on this light based on the beam pattern shots here on mtbr and the positive feedback from others who have them. You can't go wrong with this light.


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## -Muz R- (Oct 18, 2006)

If your after a quality light set but are restricted by your budget, check out the lights from Ay Up! http://www.ayup.com.au/

These are a great little set of lights form Australia and it would be good to see a light test performed on them to see how they rack up.

Cheers, Murray


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## XCBike (Apr 12, 2007)

A decent halogen that's missing from the comparison is the planet bike (alias SC). I have a an older niterider digital headtrip and a planet bike alias sc and the planet bike 15w bulb has bluer/whiter light an spreads further.

The planet bike site has their own spotlight comparison for all their products - every company should have this type of comparison - it helps to tell whether a light is good enough for 24 racing or just a commuter light to let cars see you.

http://www.planetbike.com/page/learn/lightfinder/info


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## pmckane (Jun 4, 2007)

I am looking at doing a 24 hr race (continuous riding), so will need some lights that can handle the 9 hours of darkness. What are the options for a reasonably priced solution - happy to carry some spare batteries?


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Jetlights just release the AXIX 4400 HID using 14Volt rechargeable lithium battery.
It has run time 4hrs 20min
Dam. the battery is much lighter than Ni-Mh

http://jetlites.com/ax440016whfg.html


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## randonneur (Sep 25, 2007)

gregg, this is an excellent start. Unfortunately some critical data is missing! Please add light brightness in lumens (or candlepower) and battery capacity in amp-hours (or milliamp-hours)!

while your excellent comparison includes excellent photographs to tell the user what a light beam will do in the woods at night, we must know more. Light manufacturers continue to mislead us with BS about how many "equivalent watts" their lights offer or what battery chemistry they offer. Real riders could care less. We want to know light intensity and duration first and foremost.

Wattage tells the user only one thing -- how fast his light will pull energy from the battery. It is NOT an indicator of how bright a light is (that depends on bulb type and optics), nor is it an indicator of how long the light will burn (which is a function of bulb, circuitry, and battery).

Please cut through the misleading advertising to pull up this data. Thanks!!!


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## 99 svt bolt (Sep 27, 2007)

Any pictures of the light pattern between the Topeak Moonshine $280 and the Jet Blast $355?


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## K'Tesh (Sep 20, 2007)

*2007/2008 HID vs LED shineoff will be out when?*

I'd love to see a side by side comparison of HID and LED systems... 2004 was a while ago...

Thanks!


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