# pinion gb



## oldgearstillrolls (Aug 15, 2013)

Other than price, availability, and unproven durability is there any reason to go with an IG hub over the pinion? I'm just so tired of missed shifts, chain suck, and chain slap that I'm ready to try IG, was thinking rohloff, but there is all that weight in the back wheel. Then I was thinking that should be at the bb where it won't bother. There should be a way to stuff rohloff guts in an oversize bb shell, and when I start looking on the I-net, lo, there is the pinion.


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

With the Rohloff , you get used to the back weight after 2 weeks , like you get used to a heavier fork or heavier tires.

Just sayin'

( I have mine for 9 years now)


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

> Other than price, availability, and unproven durability is there any reason to go with an IG hub over the pinion?


you need a frame specially designed for the Pinion, and there aren't many.


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## Surly29 (Jun 8, 2009)

NICOLAI Maschinenbau GmbH

Check out Nicolai's web site. They have a few different gear box options (usually above the BB, not inside). Not sure if its current, but I remember seeing one with rohloff guts.


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## oldgearstillrolls (Aug 15, 2013)

Thanks for your input. Trying to convince myself to pull the trigger. 

Yes, you get used to things. Not sure that means they are ok. I mean, I've come to expect a clattering racket and a ringing chainstay over every bumpy section. Doesn't mean I like it.

And, yes, with the dedicated frame a pinion is even more of an investment than a rohloff which you can move to another frame if you choose. You'd sure want to have your geometry and size preferences dialed. But I think that falls under price and/or availability. 

I guess, from what I've read, on the con side one could add: 
- still some technique to executing a shift, especially in a couple of gears
- twist shifter specific if you hate that 
- a little noise
- possibly a tiny bit less efficient once in gear
- you are limited to pinion's cranks, which you might hate for some reason (maybe you like 180's or something)

But really it seems like the nuclear solution to me.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

oldgearstillrolls said:


> Other than price, availability, and unproven durability is there any reason to go with an IG hub over the pinion?


So far we haven't seen any efficiency data for the Pinion not provided by the company or an owner that just dumped a ton of $$ for a new bike. Neither being particularly reliable.

I've used a bunch of IGHs and liked most of them. I used a Hammerschmidt 2 speed crank and had to get rid of it due to the drag in the high range.

Within reason a bit of weight penalty for an IGH/gearbox doesn't bother me - drag on the other hand can easily become a deal breaker.

I like the idea of the Pinion, but I am really far from being confident enough that it will be a good investment to pull the trigger at this point.


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## john_dalhart (Nov 6, 2009)

Bikes got equal-sized wheels with chain drive in the late 1880s. During the 1890s, most patents for multiple 'velocipede' gearing involved some mechanism at the bottom bracket. By WWI, this approach had been abandoned (apart from a few odd, isolated efforts) and the few commercial examples swept off the market by IGHs and the early (rear) derailleurs.


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## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

I put up a review of the Pinion gearbox in my Nicolai Helius AC Pinion and the one thing I didn't even think about until this thread was drag. If there is an increase in drag I don't notice it compared to my other derailleur type mtb drivetrains.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Second vikb where the clear high-drag equipment I've encountered was the Hammerschmidt. See here particularly at 8 seconds.

The Pinion looks very well engineered and I'm intrigued.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Drew Diller said:


> Second vikb where the clear high-drag equipment I've encountered was the Hammerschmidt. See here particularly at 8 seconds.


+1 - LOL that was exactly what it was like!


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## rdhfreethought (Aug 12, 2006)

You can fix the great majority of that drag by using a very low viscosity grease or even an oil. If you do this it will also switch gears much better in the cold if you ride in snowy conditions (one of the best indications for the HS). Sure is may wear out faster, but dirty cassettes wear out here in the PNW fairly frequently anyway. Instant shifting, resistance to ice and mud buildup, in those conditions it is without equal. Traditional mountain biking is not the strongest reason to use the HS. It is a niche piece of equipment.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

Unless you are in Europe, Germany ect, you cannot even buy a Pinion. If you find someone that will sell you one then you won't have any warranty unless you want to send it back overseas. 
I looked into one for a recumbent I want to build up and found a company that made the booms fitted to a Pinion. Sweet...I thought. I emailed them and after only two emails I no longer get replies. He told me that it is a massive investment for Pinion, not just in increased production, but setting up dealers and insurance. He said that Pinion is not planning on getting into the US market. 
I thought that having 636% gear inches (am I saying that right...I don't get that stuff) would be huge. But then I saw a guy that had a Rohloff on his bike and a double chain-ring up front on the boom. That has to give you even more gear inches...right? Of course you can only use so many gears and on bicycle recumbent going so slow that you can't stay upright is a deal breaker anyway. I liked the idea of the Pinion not only because of the lack of weight in the rear wheel but because there is no rolling resistance with the Pinion. When you stop pedaling the bike truly freewheels....no drag from the hub. You could really get some fast hubs that way. 
The one DF bike that you can get a Pinion on in the US is the Tout Terrain, which is a great high quality bike. But you can only get them from a couple of US distributors and as I said...not cheap.


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## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> Unless you are in Europe, Germany ect, you cannot even buy a Pinion. If you find someone that will sell you one then you won't have any warranty unless you want to send it back overseas.


I bought my Nicolai from the Australian distributor with the understanding that I'd have to send it back overseas if there was an issue. If it's a problem it's a good excuse to buy a new back up bike!


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

crank1979 said:


> I bought my Nicolai from the Australian distributor with the understanding that I'd have to send it back overseas if there was an issue. If it's a problem it's a good excuse to buy a new back up bike!


I like the way you think.


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