# Outbound Lighting --- TRAIL EVO --- Discussion



## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

TRAIL EVO









​
When we developed the Trail Edition back in 2017 we set out to use the same principles from car headlights and bring them to bikes. Focusing not on big lumen levels but rather a high quality beam pattern that is optimized for twisty singletrack.


Over 4,000 customers and counting absolutely loved it. But we knew we could do better. After a year and a half of development we are excited to show you the latest evolution of our best selling light. *Trail Evo*


[HR][/HR] *What did we improve?

*
To begin, we built on the development of the Trail Edition and Hangover, along with perfecting our unique blended-TIR approach to trail lighting. We spent hundreds of hours in simulation and prototypes to hone in on an even better beam pattern. Wider than the Trail Edition everyone loves, with more peripheral lighting along with a stronger center intensity to see even further down the Trail thanks to a boost in total lumen output. The difference is staggering.









​ 
The blended TIR optic uses precision engineering to finely tune the beam shape, eliminating the typical "round hotspot" edges by redirecting portions of the beam to where you need it most, creating a dramatically smoother beam. The surrounding "Light Carpet" around your periphery allows you to see and react to the whole trail and not get "tunnel vision" with harsh edges. The smoother the beam, the less strain on your eyes, the better you can see and the more comfortable your night ride is.









​
Just as important as beam patterns, is thermal management. When we start pushing big lumens like this, we have to worry about shedding that heat to keep the LED's in their efficient range. We utilized an incredibly unique way of flowing air THROUGH the light, allowing for cooling air to pass directly behind the LED's. An industry first.


We then turned our sights to eliminating one of the main complaints most riders have these days. You don't want to carry around an external battery pack. Which we get, it's one less thing to lug around and charge up. Thankfully there have been lots of developments in battery technology in the last few years and high density 21700 cells have gotten better and better. So we integrated two of them into the housing of Trail Evo, resulting in a whopping 37.0 watt-hours.


This combined with using new high-efficiency genuine CREE XD-16 LED's means we can get an incredible amount of light while maintaining 2.5+ hours of usable runtime, without an external battery pack!


Combine the fact that we can run this light at* 150+ minutes *of usable runtime and you start to wonder what else you could possibly need. Need to last longer than that? We are one of the only bike lights on the market that offer pass-through charging. So you can hook up any USB powerbank you may own and it will supplement the light as your ride goes on. Giving you unparalleled flexibility for your specific riding needs.










​
[HR][/HR] 
Let's talk about runtimes for a second. The bike light industry tends to like to use the FL1 standard, which rates runtime as the time it takes to go from full brightness to 10% output, an outdated measure that harkens back to the days of using Alkaline batteries, and when you would swap out your flashlight battery&#8230;..



But this is 2020. We need to get real about runtimes. Nearly every single light on the market starts out full brightness and diminishes over time, and this is okay. Our eyes adapt to the darkness and as long as the reduction is gradual, we literally cannot tell the difference until reaching about 50-60% of the perceived brightness. Which is why we say that we have* 150+ minutes of usable runtime* in our standard *Adaptive Mode*, we aren't going to call this "high" anymore and have a mode that isn't actually high&#8230;. we made that mistake once.



Here is the expected runtime chart. This should be far more useful then just a single number.










​ 
Our *High*, *Medium* and *Low Modes* are SOLID output modes that are designed for the rider that changes the light intensity often. Low and slow for the climbs, maximum output for the fast descent. Medium is the perfect setting when paired with the Hangover on the helmet to get nearly 4+ hours of runtime. Adaptive is for the rider that hits the trail hard right from the parking lot and doesn't want to think about changing output often. Just set it and forget it and get 150+ minutes of runtime.











​ Every mode has a 20-minute reserve that drops to low, we don't want you getting stuck in the woods with no warning, or no way to get out in time. Plus let's be honest, if you left it on high you probably were really only going to get another 3 minutes of runtime before totally going out, so lets put in a safety measure&#8230;



[HR][/HR] *Outfront Centered Mounting

*
For a bar light to act like a proper headlight, we need to put it in the best location for a headlight. Out front and centered on the cockpit. For this we developed a durable and easy to use quick release mounting system that has been used for years in the professional camera industry. You simply click the light in and tighten the over-cam, and with one hand can release the light. We designed this to be used easily with thick gloves.


[HR][/HR] *Standard USB-C Quick Charging

*
Just like with Hangover, we have USB-C quick charging as standard. This allows you to quickly charge the light using anything you might already have. Any USB QC 3.0 compatible external battery pack will work to charge Trail Evo while in use, or before you hit the trail.


With Trail Evo, you can get an *hour of runtime in just 30-40 minutes *with a compatible QC 3.0 charger, and a nearly full charge in around an two hours. While not as quick to charge as Hangover (single 18650 battery vs two 21700 cells) it is still MUCH faster than any comparable light on the market. 
The included customized USB-C to USB-A cable is designed to create a snug and watertight seal around the USB port of the light.









**Shown with optional Evo Cable Manager installed.​
[HR][/HR] *American Made Quality.*
Like the Trail and Road Edition, these lights are built in America. We work closely with our PCBA supplier in Phoenix, AZ with full-time staff on-site assisting with assembly of Evo. We put a massive amount of engineering work into making sure we can assemble our lights quickly, accurately, and with the highest quality to ensure that we keep production stateside for years to come. Backed with a no-questions-asked warranty and amazing customer service. We want you to be a customer, a friend, and an Outbound rider for life.











[HR][/HR] *What is included?*


Trail Evo light
 
USB-C charging cable 
31.8mm bar mount clamp  
35.0mm bar mount clamp  
Quick release "shoe"  
Choice of orange or black anodized washers  
Hex tool to cleanly install the mount  
Instruction manual 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here it is guys. This was about a year and a half of development work that was done almost in-line with Hangover, but as we brought Hangover to production we learned a lot of neat optical tricks and processes. We finely tuned and tweaked the optic in simulation with a new supercomputer that I built for this specific purpose. The result is nothing short of awesome.

The CREE XD16 chips are larger than the XQE used in hangover, which meant needing a little larger TIR opening to have the control we wanted, we fine tuned the amount of TIR overlap to get that good balance of peripheral lighting and optical efficiency aiming forward. The blended TIR approach also eliminates any harsh cutoffs that the Trail had, such as near the edge of the tire and the upper horizontal cutoff line. The EVO beam pattern is elliptical-ish, but it is still shaped to have the "light carpet" that Trail did well with.

Thermally, we are pushing way more power than the Trail through a little bit more thermal mass. However we wanted that clean aesthetic look similar to Hangover, but obviously need to shed all that heat somehow.... so what did we do? Just push the air THROUGH the light of course!










You can see the intakes underneath the light, that then pass through several fins that are attached directly to the LED's and exhausting out the top of the light. Providing an unbelievable thermal pathway when in motion at any speed. This built upon the knowledge that we implemented in Trail with the bar mounted scoop, but obviously taking it a bit further. It was a challenge to make this part actually manufacturer-able but we got it done.

The little trickery that we have going on to get some unbelievable runtimes is not only the thermal stability allowing the LED's to operate well above the typical efficiency, but is also the fact that the XD16 chips are a generational leap in efficiency. Get better optics that improve the forward lighting even further, get chips that operate 30% more efficiently, and it's how we achieved having similar run times to an external 4 cell 18650 battery pack, with an internal two cell 21700 pack.

We checked, tested, validated, checked, and tested again all those runtime claims and charts. We learned our lesson from Hangover. 

The quick release mount is also something really cool. SUPER robust and extremely easy to use. The shoe that is built into the light is what will be used moving forward with our lights. However there is provisions on the bottom of the light for future mount ideas, such as a gopro tab or even a garmin mount could be printed and screwed into place.

Honestly, it's 1:30am here, I'm dog tired, been going at it for weeks now trying to keep up with orders. Let me know your questions!

https://www.outboundlighting.com/product/trail-evo/


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Did a 50 miler tonight that got me home late enough to be able to place my EVO order.:thumbsup: The cats seemed less excited than I was! 
Mole


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

Well, using my approximately 6 hours of time advantage I was probably one of the first readers . Sure looks like something I'd like to have for Christmas!
Anyone here has some experience with flat rate international shipping to Eastern Europe? How long it takes and who manages the shipping? Is it DHL/UPS/etc., or it comes through the standard ex-national post companies? VAT and customs are always a huge PITA here


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Wombath said:


> Anyone here has some experience with flat rate international shipping to Eastern Europe? How long it takes and who manages the shipping? Is it DHL/UPS/etc., or it comes through the standard ex-national post companies? VAT and customs are always a huge PITA here


Can only tell for Germany, but it took roughly a week until USPS shipped it to Germany and then it took some days for custom. Shipping in the country of destination is fullfilled by the std. ex-national post.



Outbound said:


> Let me know your questions!


How about some lux values at the center and the edge? And some lumen numbers? If you don't want to spread them publicly, i'll also take a PN . Otherwise i am sure MrMole will provide a few numbers 

Looks like a nice light, impressed with the cooling solution, that's definitely a industry first!

Regarding the beam comparison:
to compare your Trail Evo (or Trail) to a Gloworm X2 is neither really helpful without saying which combination of lens types (spot, flood, elliptical) you used, nor is it really fair, as a better candidate for comparison would be the XSV with a mix of different optics to imitate the beam of the Trail Evo. (unless your comparison was solely based on price, but still that X2 has a remote, which your light doesn't have)


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

I'm ready to order. How would I obtain the code for existing customers?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Awesome work. Are both orange and black washers included in the box or do we have to chose a color at time of checkout?


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

The light looks awesome! Cant wait for mine to be delivered!

One quick question. If the internal cells are depleted can an external battery be plugged in to power the light at full brightness or must the internal cells first be charged beyond a certain threshold for that to occur?


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Got mine on order. Can’t wait!


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

sptimmy43 said:


> The light looks awesome! Cant wait for mine to be delivered!
> 
> One quick question. If the internal cells are depleted can an external battery be plugged in to power the light at full brightness or must the internal cells first be charged beyond a certain threshold for that to occur?


Outbound wrote in one of the other threads, that a) you can't charge the Evo fast enough (while operated in high mode) to avoid draining the internal battery (it only happens slower) and b) there is a certain voltage threshold below which the light won't go into high mode anymore, similar to the hangover.

So if you want to extent the runtime, you have to connect the powerbank from the beginning of your ride.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Wombath said:


> Well, using my approximately 6 hours of time advantage I was probably one of the first readers . Sure looks like something I'd like to have for Christmas!
> Anyone here has some experience with flat rate international shipping to Eastern Europe? How long it takes and who manages the shipping? Is it DHL/UPS/etc., or it comes through the standard ex-national post companies? VAT and customs are always a huge PITA here


Yea... EU shipping is indeed a major PITA, and it's kind of why we have such a high shipping price. We typically use the local post, which is cheaper but it takes for. ev. er. and customers are never happy, and 50% of the time are convinced we lost the package. To be honest, biking_tg's experience is not normal, he got lucky. 

DHL is insanely expensive ($70-80 to ship a Trail for example) and FedEx/UPS isn't much better because they slap a lot of fees on top of things. Put those on top of the local duties that some customers have to pay and it seems no one ends up happy.

However. For 2021 we are working with a distributor who's very interested in helping with EU distribution so we may be doing that sooner rather than later. First goal is to get supply/demand stabilized (feels like running on a treadmill!) and then we will focus on getting more global reach.

----------------


> Regarding the beam comparison:
> to compare your Trail Evo (or Trail) to a Gloworm X2 is neither really helpful without saying which combination of lens types (spot, flood, elliptical) you used, nor is it really fair, as a better candidate for comparison would be the XSV with a mix of different optics to imitate the beam of the Trail Evo. (unless your comparison was solely based on price, but still that X2 has a remote, which your light doesn't have)


We compare with what comes out of the box from Gloworm, which is a spot and flood optic. Could people swap them out, sure, but do most customers actually do that? We highly doubt it. We do have the X2 up as a compare because the price point is similar. We were really hoping the new Niterider Lumina 2500 was ready so we could direct compare to that. We like the Gloworm guys and aren't looking to try and "take them down" we just wanted to use a comparable product at a comparable price range as that is what customers will be cross-shopping.

FYI the XSV uses the same optics and LED's, just one extra one, so you'll still end up with the same beam pattern just a little brighter center spot.

Will get more beam comparos up here soon. It's been an insane few days leading up to this, and going to be an insane few days trying to manage everything. But I'll say this, our main "competitor" for this light was the $250-ish price point, which includes the various new NR's, Taz 2000 comp, and the various external battery setups like the gemini, gloworm, etc.



> Are both orange and black washers included in the box or do we have to chose a color at time of checkout?


Both are included, it comes installed with orange washers but we have a set of black anodized washers in there too. We know some people really want that clean look.



> One quick question. If the internal cells are depleted can an external battery be plugged in to power the light at full brightness or must the internal cells first be charged beyond a certain threshold for that to occur?


Biking_tg got it right. Best to plug in the powerbank early on to slow the rate that the battery drains when in high. Because we are using USB-QC we are limited by the max wattage we can put into the battery and drain. Medium mode is one that can be run "indefinitely" where the charge rate balances the consumption rate (just under 3A).


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

Outbound said:


> Yea... EU shipping is indeed a major PITA, and it's kind of why we have such a high shipping price. We typically use the local post, which is cheaper but it takes for. ev. er. and customers are never happy, and 50% of the time are convinced we lost the package. To be honest, biking_tg's experience is not normal, he got lucky.


That's understandable . Is the normal way you are using for international shipping tracked (I don't know of this is the right word for having a tracking number)?

For customs and VAT I am a bit out of luck even with an EU-based distributor, because the customs are low, however the VAT is 27%, and that is added to most of the things coming from other european countries, too.
-----
The daytime strobe I guess is a normal 1 or 2 Hz flashing light. What is the nightime pulse? Is it like the daytime visible flash e. g. on Niteriders and Cateyes?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Biking_tg got it right. Best to plug in the powerbank early on to slow the rate that the battery drains when in high. Because we are using USB-QC we are limited by the max wattage we can put into the battery and drain. Medium mode is one that can be run "indefinitely" where the charge rate balances the consumption rate (just under 3A).


Does the light actually default to the med. mode or is light output controlled by available current levels (and output efficiency)?



> FYI the XSV uses the same optics and LED's, just one extra one, so you'll still end up with the same beam pattern just a little brighter center spot.


Actually the XSV uses XHP50.2 emitters and optics designed to work with them. X2 & XS use XM-L emitters with appropriate optics for its emitters. Though not 100% sure I think both style optic's beam angles are the same but emitter output profiles are quite different and would affect the beam pattern so probably should edit out this comment.

Bar clamp doesn't look adjustable so curious about bar diameter compatibility? 
Mole


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Wombath said:


> The daytime strobe I guess is a normal 1 or 2 Hz flashing light. What is the nightime pulse? Is it like the daytime visible flash e. g. on Niteriders and Cateyes?


Based on the run time, it seems like it probably sets the lower 'bound' of the pulse on low and the upper bound to 'high'. A handful of manufacturers do that with their lights so you can actually see at night, but still have a pulsing/strobing light.

I personally think if you need the light to see, the pulse is irritating at best, but it seems almost impossible to sell lights in the USA without including strobe/pulse modes.

*edit* I'm aware they're behind a different UI on this light. Just commenting on a strange way of approaching using a light.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

Placed my order - stoked to get this upgrade over my L&M. My Hangover is awesome. 
BTW, your website doesn't have any place to log in for repeat customers, even though it lets you create an account on checkout.

Great review of the Trail EVO (and Hangover) over on NSMB: https://nsmb.com/articles/outbound-lighting-hangover-trail-evo-review/


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

After reading all the threads on Outbound Lighting's products, I purchased the Evo Downhill package last night. Prices are very fair with the BF discount. Kinda blew my budget but I'm getting a top-end product. 

My interactions with Matt have been great. Fantastic customer service despite launching a new product.

Very much looking forward to riding with these lights soon.


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## russya (May 3, 2007)

Question about bar mount options. I love the current trails mount because it adapts easily to my bar stem combo which isn’t round. What options will there be for mounting besides the included mount now or in the future? 

And what about helmet mounting? I know you recommend the hangover. However I already own two of them and something about their beam pattern ruins my depth perception when helmet mounted(this could be unique to me being that I am blind in one eye). Like the hangover otherwise, it just doesn’t work for me on the helmet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rock Climber (Jul 25, 2007)

I'm probably the oddball here, but I really don't mind riding with an external battery pack and like the longer run times. Has anyone seen a USB powerpack that has a case that can be strapped to the bike frame or did you all just make your own?


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Rock Climber said:


> I'm probably the oddball here, but I really don't mind riding with an external battery pack and like the longer run times. Has anyone seen a USB powerpack that has a case that can be strapped to the bike frame or did you all just make your own?


Based on size, weight, and output, I'm looking at this:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L931FCY/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_4?smid=ANAY4E0R296YX&psc=1

I'll likely add a strap or other way to affix it to the bike. Might get 2 so I have one for the Hangover helment light too.


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Bar clamp doesn't look adjustable so curious about bar diameter compatibility?
> Mole


https://www.outboundlighting.com/product/trail-evo/

*What is included?*


Trail Evo light

USB-C charging cable
*31.8mm bar mount clamp*
*35.0mm bar mount clamp*
Quick release "shoe"
Choice of orange or black anodized washers
Hex tool to cleanly install the mount
Instruction manual


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Bigtuna00 said:


> What is included?
> 
> [*]*31.8mm bar mount clamp*
> 
> [*]*35.0mm bar mount clamp*


Thanks!
Mole


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## R32uned (Oct 27, 2020)

Hi is it compatible with the Outfront GoPro Mount Adapter?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

R32uned said:


> Hi is it compatible with the Outfront GoPro Mount Adapter?


It isn't, that is just for the Focal series of lights. We are quickly working on a set of mounts for gopro adapters. We honestly did not think there would be that much demand for some so we will be offering it as a 3d printed item much like the outfront mount currently.



> Question about bar mount options. I love the current trails mount because it adapts easily to my bar stem combo which isn't round. What options will there be for mounting besides the included mount now or in the future?
> 
> And what about helmet mounting? I know you recommend the hangover. However I already own two of them and something about their beam pattern ruins my depth perception when helmet mounted(this could be unique to me being that I am blind in one eye). Like the hangover otherwise, it just doesn't work for me on the helmet.


That is a good question regarding non-round options, we haven't looked that far into the future yet, but should be fairly simple to adapt to with some thinkin'. We've been so busy trying to get this project spun up we put some of the smaller details to the side.

One other thing we are working on is an inexpensive DC5521 to USB converter so that people can use their old trail packs as additional power sources for Evo if they upgrade. Similar to what magicshine has, but wanting it without extra cables and stuff.

As for helmet mounting. Technically possible, but this is also 275g, almost 3x heavier than the Hangover. Mostly all has to do with the two 21700 cells vs a single 18650.

------------------------------------

Ya'll..... today has been INSANE. We had good hopes about launching this product, figured would maybe do double our best day last year (black friday and when the pinkbike article dropped), instead we did SIX TIMES better. It's unreal. Thank you all so much for your support and have some very long nights ahead of us working hard to get things out the door.

Tom was already at our PCBA manufacturer in Phoenix today inspecting components and getting ready for our very large PCB run that is starting tomorrow and running through Monday. All the hard parts are already on site and have been doing assembly of the mounts. We knew they'd be busy, but we are already calling up our suppliers trying to get another batch run ASAP based on today's demand so that we won't run out by the end of the year. DESPITE us already doubling what we "thought" we'd sell because surely we wouldn't end up doing six times over our best day on a light we've kept quiet about and don't spend a lot of ads on... right? 

Thanks again guys, these lights are a culmination of your inputs over the years, whether you think we are listening or not, always watching.


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## johnny5dm (Nov 14, 2020)

Just wanted to say congrats.  You've clearly earned it!


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## sstefanov (Sep 18, 2005)

Outbound said:


> However. For 2021 we are working with a distributor who's very interested in helping with EU distribution so we may be doing that sooner rather than later. First goal is to get supply/demand stabilized (feels like running on a treadmill!) and then we will focus on getting more global reach.


That (EU distributor) cannot come soon enough... The only thing holding me from ordering an DH EVO package is the frustration with postal service and local customs...

Stefan


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

sstefanov said:


> That (EU distributor) cannot come soon enough... The only thing holding me from ordering an DH EVO package is the frustration with postal service and local customs...
> 
> Stefan


You aren't the only one.... it feels like half of the orders that go international (except canada) end up with unhappy customers due to the the wait, customs holding, duties, cost, etc. I hate dealing with unhappy customers so it's also an issue I want to deal with.


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## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

I can't wait for mine to get here!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

TXrocks said:


> I can't wait for mine to get here!


Me too but I wish I'd waited a little longer to order. Got a e-mail with the existing customer discount code about 8 hrs. too late.:cryin:
Mole


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## russya (May 3, 2007)

Existing customer discount email? I haven’t seen one and I funded the kickstarter of the very first Trail lights and have bought two hangovers when they came out


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## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

MRMOLE said:


> Me too but I wish I'd waited a little longer to order. Got a e-mail with the existing customer discount code about 8 hrs. too late.:cryin:
> Mole


I bet they would take care of an existing customer.....


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Ya'll know the drill. Just send me a PM with your order number and I'll take care of you. Most likely the email might have hit spam, or somehow your email got off my list.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I assume there is no way to control either the Evo or Hangover via a wireless bar mounted remote, let alone both simultaneously, correct?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I assume there is no way to control either the Evo or Hangover via a wireless bar mounted remote, let alone both simultaneously, correct?


Not yet.

Surprisingly, I rarely ever get a request for remotes so it hasn't been a priority in development. I honestly thought there would be a larger amount of customers inquiring about it and demanding it.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Outbound said:


> Not yet.
> 
> Surprisingly, I rarely ever get a request for remotes so it hasn't been a priority in development. I honestly thought there would be a larger amount of customers inquiring about it and demanding it.


Thanks for the response.

A lot of my ride profiles are up, up, then down, down, down. I assume that's the same for many. Anyway, being able to manage battery consumption via a remote is a thing for me, especially on 3.5 hour plus rides.

Not a deal breaker though.

Do you know how the Evo and Hangover will handle temps down to minus 15 C (5 F)?

Any issues that you anticipate shipping two Evo DH sets to a Canadian address? Either delay wise or cost wise (custom duties, etc)? Do you have any idea at all what the ETA would be if I ordered today?

Good luck with continued success.

Thank you.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

We've got guys riding up in alaska going down to -30*F all the time without issues. Well, there was a weird hangover issue at temperatures that low that they were able to replicate and we were able to fix (changed the set point of the thermistor).

No problems going to Canada. We ship via USPS so no duties to our friends north of the border. 

We are hoping to start shipping late next week. However we have already sold um.... a LOT. So we are trying to hire some temporary help, and it'll be a massive effort getting everything built. So can't really give an exact date for orders placed today.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Outbound said:


> We've got guys riding up in alaska going down to -30*F all the time without issues. Well, there was a weird hangover issue at temperatures that low that they were able to replicate and we were able to fix (changed the set point of the thermistor).
> 
> No problems going to Canada. We ship via USPS so no duties to our friends north of the border.
> 
> We are hoping to start shipping late next week. However we have already sold um.... a LOT. So we are trying to hire some temporary help, and it'll be a massive effort getting everything built. So can't really give an exact date for orders placed today.


Thanks. One more question if I may...

Apologies in advance if this is not appropriate. I don't mean to pit your offerings up against any other industry offerings.

That said, I was wondering if you could comment, in very general terms, what I might expect if I were to replace a Gemini Titan 4000 and Duo 2200 bar/helmet combo, with the Evo and Hangover. Obviously I lose the external batteries (for better and for worse) and have no optional wireless simultaneous remote with the Evo DH kit. But performance-wise, are there any insights you might be able to share?

Highly interested and may be ordering today.

Thank you for your ongoing patience.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Thanks. One more question if I may...
> 
> Apologies in advance if this is not appropriate. I don't mean to pit your offerings up against any other industry offerings.
> 
> ...


I think you'd be disappointed on the hangover compared to a dedicated Duo 2200 with the external battery pack, and while the titan would be technically "twice as powerful" it's still a fairly circular beam pattern that probably gets lumen stable around 2500-3000 lumens. Evo I would be happy to say would probably be better if you are doing tight single track.

So if you were wanting to ditch the battery packs entirely, but with your existing setup I'd just get an Evo to start and enjoy that on the handlebar but keep your Duo 2200 with a battery in the backpack or something. The hangover is more designed to compete with self contained units like the Lumina 1200 or L&M urbans.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Outbound said:


> I think you'd be disappointed on the hangover compared to a dedicated Duo 2200 with the external battery pack, and while the titan would be technically "twice as powerful" it's still a fairly circular beam pattern that probably gets lumen stable around 2500-3000 lumens. Evo I would be happy to say would probably be better if you are doing tight single track.
> 
> So if you were wanting to ditch the battery packs entirely, but with your existing setup I'd just get an Evo to start and enjoy that on the handlebar but keep your Duo 2200 with a battery in the backpack or something. The hangover is more designed to compete with self contained units like the Lumina 1200 or L&M urbans.


Super appreciate the no BS transparency. Respect.

And still highly interested...

Those are all my questions. Thank you. Wishing nothing but continued success and growth for you.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Outbound said:


> I think you'd be disappointed on the hangover compared to a dedicated Duo 2200 with the external battery pack, and while the titan would be technically "twice as powerful" it's still a fairly circular beam pattern that probably gets lumen stable around 2500-3000 lumens. Evo I would be happy to say would probably be better if you are doing tight single track.
> 
> So if you were wanting to ditch the battery packs entirely, but with your existing setup I'd just get an Evo to start and enjoy that on the handlebar but keep your Duo 2200 with a battery in the backpack or something. The hangover is more designed to compete with self contained units like the Lumina 1200 or L&M urbans.


It's straightforward, no BS feedback like this that really makes me feel great about supporting your company Matt. It's also exactly the information I was looking for. I have been running a gloworm X2 on my helmet with a battery in my pack. I really value the high lumens and long run time, so I don't think the hangover is for me. I think the EVO that I ordered is going to pair well with the X2 though, can't wait to get my hands on it. EVO sounds like the perfect bar light.

Wish you guys all the best. My biggest fear is that you will be too successful and won't be able to keep up. I guess there are worse problems though!


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Skooks said:


> ...I have been running a gloworm X2 on my helmet with a battery in my pack. I really value the high lumens and long run time, so I don't think the hangover is for me. I think the EVO that I ordered is going to pair well with the X2 though, can't wait to get my hands on it. EVO sounds like the perfect bar light.


I was running an X2 on the helmet with my Outbound Trail from the original Kickstarter on the bars. I was interested in the Hangover to get rid of the battery pack and cable hassle on the helmet. I preordered a Hangover and honestly I was a bit disappointed, it didn't compare quite as well to the X2 as I had hoped.

But for the vast majority of my riding it turns out to be more than good enough to be worth running for the extra convenience, and it does pair quite well with the Trail light on the bar. The X2 is a bit of overkill, but it is also a very good light and if I were doing longer rides or unfamiliar/faster trails I would probably opt for it. Regular rides on the trails that most of my night rides are on, the Hangover works well and if I didn't own the X2 I would probably use the Hangover for everything without a second thought.

If I had any say in it, the Hangover would be 120g and have a 21700 battery and it would be closer to ideal to me. Or there would be an easy way to swap the battery and I would just have a second 3400mah 18650 in my pocket. But I get the reasons for designing it the way it is and it is a very good little light. I ordered a second one with my Evo and for longer rides where I want to be able to run at a higher output, I will just swap the Hangover mid ride, it's not much to keep in my pack. This still seems preferable to running an external pack on a helmet light.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Velodonata said:


> If I had any say in it, the Hangover would be 120g and have a 21700 battery and it would be closer to ideal to me.


Your wish will be granted in due time. Need to finish up the self contained Road, and work on the Tail first, but then sights will be set for a V2.0 of Hangover to slot in between "lightweight" hangover and the Evo.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Your wish will be granted in due time. Need to finish up the self contained Road, and work on the Tail first, but then sights will be set for a V2.0 of Hangover to slot in between "lightweight" hangover and the Evo.


Oh man. V2.0 hangover... Yes please. Brighter, larger battery and slightly heavier. All for the win.


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## chris15706 (May 12, 2006)

Just placed my order and super pumped to pair it with the hangover. Glad to not mess with the battery packs anymore. My old lights were magicshine. 

I took the hangover with me yesterday while deer hunting and got caught in the middle of a storm at dark. The hangover lit up the woods so I was able to see my way out easily. It was a good chance to test out the waterproofness as well haha.


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> Or there would be an easy way to swap the battery and I would just have a second 3400mah 18650 in my pocket.


If you're already carrying a second battery, why not just plug it into the Hangover?

(I guess my point is, do you know that you can use it while charging?)


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Bigtuna00 said:


> If you're already carrying a second battery, why not just plug it into the Hangover?
> 
> (I guess my point is, do you know that you can use it while charging?)


Sure, but there is a big difference between having to run a cable from my helmet to a USB battery pack for the entire ride, and having a little sub 50g spare battery in my pack. If I have to screw with an external pack I'll just run the X2 light on my helmet. Having the option to run the Hangover at a higher output, or using it for longer rides, and doing a quick and easy battery swap once during the ride is a preferable solution to me. Even just having a second Hangover to swap out is a better option than the cable and external pack. Which is a big part of why I ordered a second Hangover.

Looking towards using the Evo and having two Hangovers, I can see for longer rides having a USB battery pack on the bike to extend the runtime of the Evo, and even having the option of using it to recharge the first Hangover while using the second Hangover for very long rides.


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

Placed my order yesterday - the number one selling point for me (besides being a mechanical engineer myself and loving products designed by engineers instead of the marketing department) is the option of the external batteries. About 90% of my night time riding is around 1,5 hours, plus some 20 minutes on the road to get to the trailhead. For this the Evo+Hangover pair seems perfect without the need of carrying external packs, and for the remaining, much longer duration 10 percent (which might also require some overnight charging in a tent) I would be carrying powerbanks anyway.

My current setup is a NR Lumina Dual 1800 on the handlebar and a Lunivo Sirius 1000 Mini on the helmet. The Lumina is a really good light, good spread, good throw, however the battery life kind of sucks: bit above 3 hours on medium, around 1,5 hours on high, less then one hour on Boost, so I end up constantly switching between medium and high (sometimes boost), which gives me about 2 hours of safe riding time, but there is no option to extend that. Also it requires it's own proprietary adapter, so no options to recharge it anywhere without 110/230 volts.


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## scurry4 (Nov 28, 2009)

I imagine this is too heavy for a ski helmet right? I got my hangover recently, and definitely a fan. Thinking I might want a bit more power for night skiing, but I dont actually know, and the hangover could be plenty.

Either way, I need more lights for my wife and I, so trying to figure out if I should just buy another hangover, or get this big one.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

scurry4 said:


> I imagine this is too heavy for a ski helmet right? I got my hangover recently, and definitely a fan. Thinking I might want a bit more power for night skiing, but I dont actually know, and the hangover could be plenty.
> 
> Either way, I need more lights for my wife and I, so trying to figure out if I should just buy another hangover, or get this big one.


I've been using the Hangover for split-boarding and it's more than enough light. Keep in mind the snow reflects a lot of light. I picked up a GoPro head-strap so I can climb with it on low and the run it on high on the way down. Also works great for night XC skiing.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Outbound said:


> Your wish will be granted in due time. Need to finish up the self contained Road, and work on the Tail first, but then sights will be set for a V2.0 of Hangover to slot in between "lightweight" hangover and the Evo.


This please! I'd even vote for skipping the roadie light and going straight to the Hangover 2.0 . It'd be cool if there was an upgrade path for the 1.0 to the 2.0 Just a thought...


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## scurry4 (Nov 28, 2009)

woodyak said:


> I've been using the Hangover for split-boarding and it's more than enough light. Keep in mind the snow reflects a lot of light. I picked up a GoPro head-strap so I can climb with it on low and the run it on high on the way down. Also works great for night XC skiing.


Perfect, thats all I needed to hear, especially from a VTer (Im down in RASTA land). I'll get the package, and have the big EVO for MTB and the second hangover for my wife.

I just weighed a bunch of things, I imagine while light, the EVO would be far too heavy for that purpose anyways.


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## MOBH (Nov 25, 2017)

No. I do 90% of my riding on road and really, really, want to see the road light so don’t want to see any cancellation of the road to see a quicker development of Hangover 2...


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

MOBH said:


> No. I do 90% of my riding on road and really, really, want to see the road light so don't want to see any cancellation of the road to see a quicker development of Hangover 2...


Don't worry, in order to jump to the next level and get that next batch of Outbound riders... we absolutely need a game changing road light that's perfect for commuters and casual riders. Something the current Road can't really do with the large battery pack and stuff.

Thennnnn we can get back to the Trail party.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Tom has been working his ASS off at our supplier in Phoenix jumping right in with the folks on the assembly line helping train and assist in getting these things rolling. Meanwhile I am in Chicago building as many hangovers as I can.

We may actually be able to hit our self-imposed deadline of early December to start shipping these. Basically going to be doing daily UPS shipments from Phoenix to Chicago where I'll put the Evo's in their respective boxes and get things shipped out.

We have over 700 orders for Evo's so far and just a two (sometimes 3 or 4) man crew, and we can really only get stuff checked, packed, and shipped in a finite amount of time. So any patience is greatly appreciated. We really can't wait to roll these out fast. Been working 14-18 hour days non-stop the last few weeks.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Outbound said:


> Tom has been working his ASS off at our supplier in Phoenix jumping right in with the folks on the assembly line helping train and assist in getting these things rolling. Meanwhile I am in Chicago building as many hangovers as I can.
> 
> We may actually be able to hit our self-imposed deadline of early December to start shipping these. Basically going to be doing daily UPS shipments from Phoenix to Chicago where I'll put the Evo's in their respective boxes and get things shipped out.
> 
> ...


I think the second one in the right hand column is mine.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

On the one hand it's great to hear you're so devoted to getting things done, on the other hand, take care of yourself and don't get burned out


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Well, as you know I rarely have commented on the Outbound products. With this one though I just had to weigh in with my own opinion. _The design of this lamp I find to be absolutely revolutionary. If I were in the market for a new bar mounted self-contained MTB lamp I would surely consider buying one of these._ I absolutely love a bar lamp with a wide beam pattern and this lamp has the goods, all in a very nice looking and well thought out design.

Now the only thing preventing me from ordering one of these myself is that I always insist on a MTB bar mounted lamp that has NW emitters that are somewhere in the temperature range of 4000-4500K. _If there was a NW option I would be buying one of these right now_



Outbound said:


> .....Surprisingly, I rarely ever get a request for remotes so it hasn't been a priority in development. I honestly thought there would be a larger amount of customers inquiring about it and demanding it.


Oh there is a demand. That is why most of the Gloworm products offer a remote and why other lamps ( Lupine, Ravemen, Gemini, Fenix and a few cheap Chinese brands ) also have the option. It doesn't get talked about so much because now there are lamps that offer the option. Ten years ago that wasn't the case and people ( like myself ) talked about it all the time. People don't talk about UI's that much but every lamp has one and everyone has their own preferences when it comes to those as well. Now with all this said, _beam pattern preferences trump any desire for a remote so my guess is that you will sell out of these really fast._

Now as for me, once again I have to sit it out as_ I simply will not compromise when it comes to beam pattern and *tint*_. For MTB, I'm a died-in-the-wool neutral white mountain biker for life.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks for the update, and for all the tremendous work guys! And yeah, don't burn yourselves out. We need you to keep designing new awesome lights for us!


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## klaudiop (Nov 25, 2020)

I am quite impressed with both, the design and the beamshots of this light. Plus, this runtime for a self contained light is awesome at that weight! I am considering the possibility to give it a try on the pack (trail evo and Hangover), I've been quite disapointed with my current light (MS).

cheers
klaudiop


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*@Outbound;* Is there any way you can provide a beam shot the of mid-mode in an open setting with something used to give us some sense of distance ( both far and wide )? Since the run time on this level looks very encouraging I'd like to know the just how far the "usable distance throw is.

I also want to add a bit more opinion when it comes to beam tint. With lamps that provide a _wide beam pattern_ it has been my experience that_ "Close-in reflective feedback glare"_ is not so much an issue with lamps that use cool white emitters vs. those that provide a more narrow beam pattern. That's because if done right the beam pattern is more evenly spread out so glare is limited. Maybe not as much as one using NW emitters but when used on lower output levels the wider cooler light is not as much of a hinderence vs. the lamps ( cool white ) that have a more intense forward beam pattern. I should also add that cool white emitter tint can sometimes be more useful if used in an environment that has wet or darkened ( dirt ) trails.

I'm looking forward to seeing some good "user photos" once these lamps go out to market. Once again I want to thank Outbound for their continued innovations when it comes to the bike lighting market. *Not to mention they are a USA manufacture / small business which I want very much to support.* In the future I really do hope they consider doing a EVO run using NW emitters ( when available ) and perhaps including a wired remote control.. If they can do this I think they will be pleasantly surprising at how many people will want one.

BTW, what happened to our Avatars?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> .......BTW, what happened to our Avatars?


There was an announcement earlier in the week about MTBR rolling out a new version of the Forum software. I suppose that there will be some issues in the process and lost avatars might be one of them.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Regarding beam tint. Main goal was to keep the tint color homogeneous across the product lines so that people aren't ending up with different colored lights depending on when they purchased. The Lumiled Altilons that were in the Trail/Road lights are as warm as could get them since they are automotive qualified lights that require a certain color temperature range.

Then when we developed Hangover, that was designed to compliment the Trail so absolutely had to make sure those color temperatures matched. Then the same when we developed Evo to compliment the Hangover.

Now if you are handy, shouldn't really be a problem to swap out the XD16's on the Evo yourself for whatever color temperature you want as they are readily available on Mouser. However it is not something we'll offer as a select-able option anytime soon. Main reason being is that we are just too busy to try and do custom one-off products for specific customers. The biggest goal for us to have a very slim product line so that we can reinvest in inventory easily, achieve economies of scale, and make it easy for customers to order.

The second we have "chose your beam tint" on the website, we'll get dozens of emails a day requesting which one is best despite trying to make as clear as possible what each one entails, which ties up more time, more staff, having to keep additional inventory on hand, produce, etc.

So from a business perspective, we won't offer it as we are scaling up. In the future could we have a special one-off customs type thing? Sure, but that just isn't in the cards right now while we are busy not only trying to handle record number of orders, but hire staff and get our warehouse/production primed for 2021 so that Tom and I can focus on Road, Tail, and more future products.

Biggest goal for 2021 is not only the Road and Tail by the fall, but also to have staff in place to handle building/shipping lights in our facility to keep things on-site so we can react quickly to issues instead of contract manufactures, as well as getting ahead of inventory by a lot. We've been growing by 150% year over year and just keeps snowballing so trying to take advantage of the momentum. 

--------------------------------------------------

As for more beam shots. I just uploaded a bunch of the pictures we took. Now on the website right now we just have the Gloworm X2 because that's what most people seem to cross-shop (we get a few emails a week asking why xyz is better than zyx, etc.) at this price point, and has the largest immediate "oh thats way different" look from a marketing perspective since we can't list the other specs that make Evo far better than something like the Taz 2000 Comp or the Monteer. However I'll list a few here:

*Outbound Trail Evo*
Self contained Bar light
Price: *$245*
Weight: *275g*
Charge Time: 3-4 hours
Runtime: 150 minutes on Adaptive, 110 minutes on solid high









*Exposure 6-pack*
Self contained Bar light
Price: *$580*
Weight: *386g*
Charge Time: 11 hours
Runtime: 120 minutes claimed 








*
Magicshine Monteer 6500*
External Battery Bar light
Price: *$350*
Weight: *549g*
Charge Time: 9 hours
Runtime: 120 minutes claimed









*Light & Motion Taz 2000 Comp*
Internal Bar light
Price: *$230*
Weight: *216g*
Charge Time: 4 hours
Runtime: 90 minutes claimed (same as OL adaptive based on wetestlights.com)









*Niterider Lumina 1200 Boost OLED*
Internal Bar light
Price: *$150*
Weight: *172g*
Charge Time: 3 hours
Runtime: 60 minutes claimed (linear ramp to 25% output based on wetestlights.com)









*Niterider Lumina 1100 Boost*
Internal Bar light
Price: *$120*
Weight: *172g*
Charge Time: 3 hours
Runtime: 60 minutes claimed (linear ramp to 25% output based on wetestlights.com)









-------------------------------------------

Few things to note:

The reason included the Lumina 1100 boost is that the upcoming Lumina 2500 has a similar reflector bowl optic that the 1100 used. As soon as we get our hands on a Lumina 2500 will do a straight comparision though based on photos I expect it to look very similar (can't get a bowl with a clear lens to look good). They were on the right path with the Lumina 1200 lens but seems to have taken a step backwards with the 2500 despite more lumens. Since that is a more comparable product ($225 price point, similar lumens, etc.) once it comes out we'll update and do additional comparisons.

The one that is most impressive out of the bunch is the Taz 2000 comp, however as you can tell the beam width just can't be matched with Evo. The offset bar mounting also creates a harsh shadow on the tire, along with taking up a lot of space on the cockpit as they only really offer a strap mount which can be a challege to use on something that heavy (exactly why we knew couldn't do a strap mount for Evo).

As you can probably tell, we wanted to rival the biggest and baddest systems and aren't afraid to compare to them. Just a nice added benefit to have it beat on runtime, charge time, weight and overall beam pattern too.


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## willawry'd (Oct 3, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> Now the only thing preventing me from ordering one of these myself is that I always insist on a MTB bar mounted lamp that has NW emitters that are somewhere in the temperature range of 4000-4500K.


I apologize if this has been previously mentioned but, what is the color temperature range of these lights?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*@Outbound;* Looking at the beam shot photo's you provided I just have to ask this one question, "How were you able to take a photo that is _"looking down on the handlebars"_ and yet still show the downward throw of the lamp"? That really has me scratching my head.  Is this some special photo lens that does this?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Cat-man-do said:


> *@Outbound;* Looking at the beam shot photo's you provided I just have to ask this one question, "How were you able to take a photo that is _"looking down on the handlebars"_ and yet still show the downward throw of the lamp"? That really has me scratching my head.  Is this some special photo lens that does this?


Just a regular Hero8 on a tripod with the bike on a stand and the lights aimed at the same general spot. Tried to put the camera near where our eye would be. Tom just walked into his backyard trail essentially










Color temperature is around the 5000k range.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

When exactly is "* early December"*?

Asking for a friend.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Shipping the first wave of lights Friday or Monday (12/4 - 12/6). 

Already got emails yesterday at 10am wondering why the lights hadn't shipped yet. Seems I can never make it clear enough how there is a wait.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Outbound said:


> Shipping the first wave of lights Friday or Monday (12/4 - 12/6).
> 
> Already got emails yesterday at 10am wondering why the lights hadn't shipped yet. Seems I can never make it clear enough how there is a wait.


It's all good Matt. Appreciate all the hard work.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Can’t wait for this light to end up in some folks hands for more beam shots and runtime feedback etc. 

Keep up the solid work Matt.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Outbound said:


> Shipping the first wave of lights Friday or Monday (12/4 - 12/6).
> 
> Already got emails yesterday at 10am wondering why the lights hadn't shipped yet. Seems I can never make it clear enough how there is a wait.


My post was more of a joke as I understand the inherent need to be a bit vague in such things.

But we are excited to get our hands on these, so I hope you can understand.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

EchoTony said:


> My post was more of a joke as I understand the inherent need to be a bit vague in such things.
> 
> But we are excited to get our hands on these, so I hope you can understand.


Definitely understand, but then also have customers calling/emailing demanding the shipping number, wondering why this hasn't shipped, calling it a scam, etc.

Granted when we have over 800+ customers for this right away, I can always expect a few impatient folks who didn't read the large bolded orange font right above the "buy now" button. 

But this is also why I definitely wanted to avoid doing any kind of preorder like I did with Hangover. I think we are running like 4-5 days behind our estimated target of Dec 1st, with Hangover we were more like 2-3 months, ha.

We've got about 400-500 of them on my dock right now, waiting on instruction manuals to arrive so we can get the boxes stuffed with the card, USB cables, tools, washers, etc. and start getting these out the door. Fingers crossed the manuals arrive tomorrow and we can get some out, but more likely Monday at this point.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

I just got my shipping notification and tracking number!!!

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Outbound said:


> We've got about 400-500 of them on my dock right now, waiting on instruction manuals to arrive so we can get the boxes stuffed with the card, USB cables, tools, washers, etc. and start getting these out the door. Fingers crossed the manuals arrive tomorrow and we can get some out, but more likely Monday at this point.


Got my shipping notification! Matt comes through again, I can't remember any company with better communication and hitting delivery promises as reliably as Outbound, even from the original Kickstarter. Looking forward to trying out this light!


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

I don't see how it's possible anyone ordered before me!  I actually snuck on the site the night before the launch and ordered...


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Me too... so early that I had to revise the order as they didn't have the Hangover and Evo in a package when I put in my order.... Matt was cool and (instantly) refunded me the $7 difference between the al la cart vs. package prices. 

Super stoked to be going on a big night ride soon (ok, hopefully soon - no tracking info yet). Should be a big change since I've been going with relatively dim 850/500 Nite riders so far this year. Just enough to do basic XC trail riding. I'm thinking that should change for me soon.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks for working so hard to get these lights out to us guys!. Can't wait.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Thanks guys. Though got your ship notification and tracking, probably won't see anything moving till tomorrow night. Printed off a bunch to get organized. Waiting on UPS to drop off our instruction manuals that was supposed to arrive this morning butttt.... here we are at 4pm still waiting on them....

In the meantime have over 400 lights ready to drop in, all the boxes made, all the shipping boxes made, labels printing, etc. So tomorrow the post office will need to bring an extra large truck, ha.

As for the time from launch to delivery, we are certianly getting better. I think the delta from the original Kickstarter promise date to actual delivery was like 4 months, then Hangover was like 2 months, now we are only 7 days behind our initial target of December 1st. When we launch our road light in 2021 we will definitely have it all on hand and ready to ship the day of.


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## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

Outbound said:


> Thanks guys. Though got your ship notification and tracking, probably won't see anything moving till tomorrow night. Printed off a bunch to get organized. Waiting on UPS to drop off our instruction manuals that was supposed to arrive this morning butttt.... here we are at 4pm still waiting on them....
> 
> In the meantime have over 400 lights ready to drop in, all the boxes made, all the shipping boxes made, labels printing, etc. So tomorrow the post office will need to bring an extra large truck, ha.
> 
> As for the time from launch to delivery, we are certianly getting better. I think the delta from the original Kickstarter promise date to actual delivery was like 4 months, then Hangover was like 2 months, now we are only 7 days behind our initial target of December 1st. When we launch our road light in 2021 we will definitely have it all on hand and ready to ship the day of.


Thanks! Me and the Heathens are looking forward to some more night riding coming up soon!

Wait many of us are guys we dont need no stinkin instructions.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Sweet. I haven’t even ordered and I am just as excited as everyone else. Lol. 

I am anxious for many of you guys to get the lights and put them through it’s paces in different environments and report back. Maybe some runtime and graphs and even more beamshots. 

I should be ready to pull the trigger on a light or 2 to pair with my Hangovers (mine and wifey) shortly after the new year. Might be getting a little too cold outside for riding. We shall see.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

I haven't had anticipation like this since I ordered my bike. 
Toys are great. They bring out the kid in all of us.

I will post shots of beam patterns once I'm up and running.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

cue003 said:


> . Might be getting a little too cold outside for riding. We shall see.


That's the crap thing about getting a new light at the start of winter. You end up dying to ride with your new light but the cold takes all the fun out of it. Not to mention that the older you get the harder it is to ride in cold weather.

*@Outbound;* If it were me I'd of shipped out the first lot without the instructions. If you have a website shouldn't be too hard to put the instructions there. People are waiting. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out anyway even if no instructions. The only time I ever needed instructions for any of my lights was if the light was programmable. These aren't so shouldn't be a big deal.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Just got my notification. The boys at Outbound must be busy!


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> That's the crap thing about getting a new light at the start of winter. You end up dying to ride with your new light but the cold takes all the fun out of it. Not to mention that the older you get the harder it is to ride in cold weather.


YMMV but these shoes completely changed my relationship with winter riding here in NorCal: SHIMANO SH-MW501 for The Cold and Wet

Folsom Lake winters almost never get below freezing.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

patski said:


> YMMV but these shoes completely changed my relationship with winter riding here in NorCal: SHIMANO SH-MW501 for The Cold and Wet
> 
> Folsom Lake winters almost never get below freezing.


That looks like a nice shoe. It doesn't appear they make them for flat pedal folks like me. I don't do clips anymore. Getting to old. Lol.

What do you guys wear for the rest of the body coverage for cold weather riding? The wind just sends chills to my core when even taken out the trash right now.


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## DrPete (Jul 20, 2004)

Super stoked to hear these are moving! I was a little late to the party ordering on 11/23 but it's all good. So glad to throw my support behind a US company making great products, and I remind myself that particularly this year, if waiting for a fancy light for your bike is the biggest problem, life is pretty damn good.

I'll try to remember to take some comparison pics between my Evo downhill package and my MAXX-D/Diablo combo.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Cat-man-do said:


> *@Outbound;* If it were me I'd of shipped out the first lot without the instructions. If you have a website shouldn't be too hard to put the instructions there. People are waiting. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out anyway even if no instructions. The only time I ever needed instructions for any of my lights was if the light was programmable. These aren't so shouldn't be a big deal.


If i shipped out 500 lights without instructions, I guarantee I would have 200 emails wondering where the heck they are, what the runtime is, how to mount it, how to get into flash mode, etc. etc. I would rather put off 2 days of shipping to prevent hours of emails explaining why there was no manual included.

Never underestimate people. 

However, one thing we are looking to try and implement in upcoming iterations as we are always improving the lights with every new production batch, is to have a micro QR code etched or printed onto a flat surface under the light or where the mounting shoe is. It will lead to an extremely mobile-optimized website (think just straight text, 3kb images, etc.) that has the basics of operation, mounting, and runtimes.

That way if find yourself at the trailhead, or on the trail and need a quick reminder of something like how long do you have in a certain mode or status light, just scan the QR code and you'll get the info if you have cell signal. Or can pre-load the site on your phone before riding.

Would it replace the manual entirely? Maybe? Probably not. I know I always enjoy flipping through a manual even if something seems dead easy.

---------------------

We blasted through about 500 Evo's today, got two pallets full of lights out the door. Have another two pallets to stack up and ship. I think we'll be almost complete with our backlog by Thursday. Have some more Hangovers to build for DH Evo Packages that were more recently ordered, but have all the Evo's we need on site and ready to ship. Hired some more part-time employees to help move stuff quicker, and it is proving to be a huge help.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

cue003 said:


> That looks like a nice shoe. It doesn't appear they make them for flat pedal folks like me. I don't do clips anymore. Getting to old. Lol.
> 
> What do you guys wear for the rest of the body coverage for cold weather riding? The wind just sends chills to my core when even taken out the trash right now.


Back when I was in my forties I used to crave a pair of the best cold weather shoes that _Lake_ sold. They were the best but alas, at more than $200 ( even back then ) too much money for me to dole out. They're even more now. Back then I could go out on those 20°F days and ride for a couple hours. Only thing that used to get cold was my feet.

I'm in my mid sixties now. The old circulatory system ain't what it used to be. Yep, I'm hesitate to take out the trash when it's cold too...ain't it a drag. 

If I were to go out now I'd be wearing my best stuff. Layering is the best way to handle winter. On a really cold day I'd put on something like a light wicking long sleeve shirt as my base layer, a good mid weight long sleeve jersey, perhaps my wind-proof fleece vest coupled with a very good windproof / breathable shell. If really, really cold I sub the vest for a mid-weight long sleeve fleece jacket and then put the shell over that. 
I used to own a nice Gortex shell but unfortunately it either shrank or I got bigger... Then I wear some heavy weight wool socks, and my windproof tights and some good full finger gloves. Skull cap or balaclave under my helmet.

Now with all that said it's a good idea to carry a hydration back pack with enough room to put some clothes inside it just in case you need to take something off or switch out something.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Outbound said:


> If i shipped out 500 lights without instructions, I guarantee I would have 200 emails wondering where the heck they are, what the runtime is, how to mount it, how to get into flash mode, etc. etc. I would rather put off 2 days of shipping to prevent hours of emails explaining why there was no manual included.
> 
> *Never underestimate people.*


Well...the way I look at it is, _"If someone was smart enough to buy your light then maybe they're smart enough to figure out most things on their own". Anyway, just a thought._  If it's only two more days no big deal. Otherwise if I had ordered one of your products and it only included a slip of paper giving me the link to get the directions, I don't think I'd have a problem with that.

Anyway, I figure it really doesn't matter. Directions or no directions you will still get questions and have irate people that will complain about something and want answers to stupid questions. That's what happens when you sell stuff. That's why good customer service is always a big plus
when it comes to buying new stuff.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Got my Evo today and took her out for a quick test drive. I'm very impressed. The light is all encompassing without a hint of glare. First light I've used that didn't have any artifacts or shadows. Running both the Evo and the Hangover on High you can clearly see the Evo has way more power, but it doesn't completely outshine the Hangover or make it irrelevant. The Hangover does go a little deeper and is more of a fill in the blanks, when your bars are going one way and your head is going the other. A solid combo. I was solo tonight, so I tried a bunch of different combos before the Evo dimmed down (Only half way charged when I got it). Running both lights in Hi mode was bliss! Running both in Adaptive mode was solid. Adaptive mode with 2 Hangovers was working OK for me, but I felt like I needed more. I don't feel like with the Evo on the bars. The Evo ran low eventually and was in dim mode. Running he Hangover on Hi or Adaptive with the Evo on Low mode was actually surprisingly good. Better than most combos I've had. Next step is to do a full night ride with my buds with these things fully charged. Based on what I saw tonight I think it's going to work out pretty pretty pretty good.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Silly USPS always has issues with packages to our home. I think it's our carrier, as shipments have an ETA date when they ship, but are always a day late, or more. More waiting.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

Mine arrived yesterday. It dwarfs my Hangover - can't wait to see how it does on the trail this Thursday. The bar mount quick release system is beautiful.

Just a heads up for anyone else swapping the color discs. There's a lot of Loctite on the screws. I stripped one of them. Tom from OL is going above and beyond and sending me a whole new bar mount (I just asked for a new screw). I'd say take care when trying to remove the screws - maybe use a bit of heat on them to soften up the Loctite, and make sure to use a good quality allen wrench.


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

EchoTony said:


> Silly USPS always has issues with packages to our home. I think it's our carrier, as shipments have an ETA date when they ship, but are always a day late, or more. More waiting.


Hmm. Mine was shipped via UPS and delivered Thursday. Interesting.

Anyway, build quality is superb. I really like the "shoe" type mount. The plug for the USB-C charging port is also very robust and a welcome improvement over the hangover. It actually fits snuggly in place when needed and makes a seal with the included USB cable when charging which will be very helpful if pass-through charging while riding is needed. A quick comparison of the output to my Focal Trail in my garage looks like a substantial improvement in total output with a punchier beam. I don't have an actual ride with the EVO yet to comment any further.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

After about 100 USPS shipments, I decided to switch to UPS to do the other 1000+ because USPS was doing TERRIBLY locally. Like I had customers whose shipments were sitting on the USPS docks for 3 days before starting to move, or getting "lost" in transit and taking 2-3 weeks to arrive. I ended up shipping a lot of customers another set of lights via UPS to keep them happy and just hoping they return the lights if they ever show up via USPS.

There is no chance in actually recovering lost revenue from USPS, and despite using them reliably for the last 3 years at great prices, I bit the bullet and decided to switch to UPS to make sure customers are happy. Are we losing money going that route? Yep. But it offsets the number of angry emails over long shipping delays and sending out more product to keep people happy despite something we can't control. UPS is starting to see some delays just due the large holiday volume, but nothing too major.

-------------------------------------

Glad that Evo's are starting to get in peoples hands though! We are already working closely with our supplier to make small improvements to the mount (such as more stringent instructions on loctite amounts) and thickening up some spots. It's funny, hindsight is always 20/20 when it comes to assembly processes. You'd think something like "add loctite to screws" would be a simple instruction without much downstream effect, but then have to remember to add details such as "add ONE DROP of loctite to screws" to prevent large issues down the road such as stripping of screws, or sticky actions, etc. Since most production people are just doing what they are told, and have no idea what too much or too little is.


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

Outbound said:


> After about 100 USPS shipments, I decided to switch to UPS to do the other 1000+ because USPS was doing TERRIBLY locally. Like I had customers whose shipments were sitting on the USPS docks for 3 days before starting to move, or getting "lost" in transit and taking 2-3 weeks to arrive.


Hmm, interesting, mine is coming with USPS, that means I was too fast . Since it still has about 4800 miles to travel, so I'll consider myself lucky if I see it before January. At least the tracking number is already visible in the local post company's system.

Meanwhile I am really looking forward reading about the first impressions here


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Yep, this is where mine is








Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

FML. Ordered too soon. Good thing I can ride during the daytime on the weekends. Hopefully, it will be here by Monday or Tuesday.



Outbound said:


> After about 100 USPS shipments, I decided to switch to UPS to do the other 1000+ because USPS was doing TERRIBLY locally. Like I had customers whose shipments were sitting on the USPS docks for 3 days before starting to move, or getting "lost" in transit and taking 2-3 weeks to arrive. I ended up shipping a lot of customers another set of lights via UPS to keep them happy and just hoping they return the lights if they ever show up via USPS.
> 
> There is no chance in actually recovering lost revenue from USPS, and despite using them reliably for the last 3 years at great prices, I bit the bullet and decided to switch to UPS to make sure customers are happy. Are we losing money going that route? Yep. But it offsets the number of angry emails over long shipping delays and sending out more product to keep people happy despite something we can't control. UPS is starting to see some delays just due the large holiday volume, but nothing too major.
> 
> ...


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

Finished my ride in the dark today and I was not disappointed. The EVO is definitely an upgrade over the Focal Trail. The Hangover is a great counterpart to the light. 

I can’t post my beam shots for some reason. I keep getting errors when I attempt to upload regardless of browser or even operating system. I’ll try again in the morning.


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## kestrel242 (Jul 11, 2008)

*Some help needed*

Just got my Trail Evo and took it out for a spin. My mount doesn't seem to be working right. The cam lock lever can only rotate for about 25 degrees or so to point at a 45 degree angle. It didn't feel right but the light didn't seem like it was going to fall, so off I went.

When I got back I noticed there was a bit of play between the mount and light. Still thinking something isn't right, I inspected the mount closer and looked up photos of the light in its mount online. The online photos do indeed show the light with the cam lock lever latched straight down, not at an angle like mine. In hindsight, my light wasn't properly secured to the mount and I'm lucky that things didn't bounce around enough to drop the light.

I spent about an hour trying to figure this thing out: I've read the instructions repeatedly, I've tried pushing with as much force as I dated on the cam lock, but it just won't latch. The extra force simply wore a 2-3mm hole in the anodizing of the foot, about a third of the way up from the bottom. I don't want to go absolutely gorilla on the cam, that can't be right for something patterned after camera equipment.

Has anyone run into this issue and figured it out? I'm completely stumped here.

Update: I just received this response from Tom at OL:

_"I'm sorry we didn't make this more clear, but the lever doesn't have to be exactly at 90° to hold tight. Basically, whenever it feels like it's tight, it's good to go, and as you use the mount and light over time it will wear on the surfaces and the extra rotation will help keep it tight. So just stick it in the mount, press down on the lever to snug it up, and if it's not at 90° that's ok so long as it's snug."_

Following up here. Ok, it doesn't work the way I would have expected, but as long as it holds on and doesn't rattle I'll keep working with it and see how it goes. It seems to hold on a little better if you wiggle the light slightly to make sure the cam is engaging as far as it can.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

kestrel242 said:


> Just got my Trail Evo and took it out for a spin. My mount doesn't seem to be working right. The cam lock lever can only rotate for about 25 degrees or so to point at a 45 degree angle. It didn't feel right but the light didn't seem like it was going to fall, so off I went.
> 
> When I got back I noticed there was a bit of play between the mount and light. Still thinking something isn't right, I inspected the mount closer and looked up photos of the light in its mount online. The online photos do indeed show the light with the cam lock lever latched straight down, not at an angle like mine. In hindsight, my light wasn't properly secured to the mount and I'm lucky that things didn't bounce around enough to drop the light.
> 
> ...


The early prototypes (most of the pics we shot before production parts rolled in) were running different cam angles that went almost all the way down, but we realized that any wear in the system over years of use would effectively bottom out the mount not leaving it any travel to work with. One of the production delays was trying to get that cam angle and size dialed so that it could close quick, provide some range over various tolerances and such. Especially once we switched to powdercoat.

Usually what I've always done is pop the light in the latch, sometimes holding the lever up slightly to make it easier to let the light push the brass plunger down and for the latch to snap into place, and then just give it a little push to really lock the lever in place. Usually totally rock solid then.

The rotary spring in theory should continue to provide a good amount of force keeping it shut even on the roughest of stuff. Tom was out there in the AZ desert on the chunkiest of trails every night trying his hardest to break the mount and cause it to get loose during testing.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

To any of the people who have received their new EVO; "What is your impression of the medium mode". Most people so far only seem to be talking about the high or adaptive mode.


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

Maiden voyage tonight. Ran both lights on "adaptive" after a full charge.

The EVO performance is excellent, no complaints. I think I had 3 LEDs left on the indicator after an hour of use.

I had the same confusion as @kestrel242 with regards to the cam lock. The first time I installed the light it seemed like something was wrong as the lever was so far up. I took it on and off a few times and now the lever moves much closer to 90 degrees. Hope I haven't messed it up in doing so! 

One other complaint about the mount: it's fairly easy to unscrew the part that the light clips onto if you mash the light trying turn it on or off. This might be partially because the loctite was wet on my light. I quickly realized I need to carefully sandwich the light in my hand before pressing the button. As a refinement maybe an indexed design would be nice. You could still fine tune position by rotating the mount on the bar if the index doesn't land exactly where you want. Or maybe even just a solid mount. I'm not sure we really need THAT much adjustability here.

The Hangover was a little lackluster. Was down to 2 LED's during the same time period so I think it's pretty clear it won't keep up with the EVO (not that Outbound claims it would, the graphs are clear). My ride was funky though too, lots of fog/mist so it was hard to see regardless. Not that it's a bad light! Need to get some more rides in, preferably where I can actually see!

I'm not totally convinced on Adaptive mode yet. In my head I think it would be better to run Medium on the climbs and switch to High on descents. After an hour on Adaptive the Hangover seemed pretty dim. But to be fair and clear, this was my first night right since some time in the 90's. It will take some time to get used to I'm sure!


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

OK so I figured out the images. The first picture is both the EVO on the bars and Hangover on the helmet pointed down the trail on high. Sorry @Cat-man-do, only the last half hour or so of my ride was in the dark so I had the luxury of running the lights on high with no worries.


The second picture is just the EVO with the Hangover off. Overall I feel the EVO is a substantial improvement over the Focal Trail. Sorry, no comparison shots.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

It appears the USPS is worse than thought:








I live in San Diego.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Are you guys wrapping your Evos and putting them under the tree? Where are the ride and runtime reports?


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

cue003 said:


> Are you guys wrapping your Evos and putting them under the tree? Where are the ride and runtime reports?


Still lost in the mail...

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

cue003 said:


> Are you guys wrapping your Evos and putting them under the tree? Where are the ride and runtime reports?


I guess I got lucky with the USPS and got mine last Saturday, but I haven't had a chance to get it into the woods yet. In the backyard and around the neighborhood it certainly looks to be the business. Based on playing with it so far I fully expect it to be a game changer. Maybe I will test the runtime this weekend.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Mine was scheduled for delivery Saturday but didn't arrive till yesterday afternoon. It's on the charger now but unfortunately I have a cold (at least I hope that's all it is) so won't get a chance to ride test it for a few days. If I can find the motivation I'll get my light-meter out and take some measurements. Light looks like a nice solid unit!
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Mine was scheduled for delivery Saturday but didn't arrive till yesterday afternoon. It's on the charger now but unfortunately I have a cold (at least I hope that's all it is) so won't get a chance to ride test it for a few days. If I can find the motivation I'll get my light-meter out and take some measurements. Light looks like a nice solid unit!
> Mole


MRM, I'm still waiting to hear someone give some feedback on the mid-mode. I want to know if the mid mode is something that is usable since it has the longer run time vs. the tapered mode. Hope you get a chance to test it soon.

Looks like we have the new Forum software. I'm going to miss the greenie / rep. system


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Still waiting for USPS to get mine across the border to Canada. Been close to a week now. The tracking report just says it was processed through their Chicago facility 6 days ago but no updates since then. Frustrating.


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## Fourtrax (Mar 17, 2013)

Got mine yesterday and took it out for about an hour and a half in McDowell Mountain Park in AZ. Ran it combined with Hangover on the helmet. I played with running on Medium, High and adaptive. Medium is definitely doable for longer rides. I also have the Focal Trail edition that I had been running on the bars. I like the beam pattern on the Evo better although I haven’t compared side by side at the same time. The button is a little harder to press (have to grab the whole light and then press with your thumb) as compared to the trail so if you change modes often when climbing or descending you need to plan ahead a little before you hit the descents. Light is great so far. Awesome fit and finish. Definitely feels more “hefty” than expected. Mount works great!


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

USPS is not my friend.... Still MIA for me too.


rain164845 said:


> Still lost in the mail...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Mine was scheduled for delivery Saturday but didn't arrive till yesterday afternoon. It's on the charger now but unfortunately I have a cold (at least I hope that's all it is) so won't get a chance to ride test it for a few days. If I can find the motivation I'll get my light-meter out and take some measurements. Light looks like a nice solid unit!
> Mole


Mole, hope you feel better and it turns out to really be just the cold. It would be great if you muster up the motivation to run it through some measurements etc.


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

I did 2 hours last night with Hangover and Evo, both on Adaptive, temps around 45 degrees F. Hangover died in the parking lot. Evo still had 2 LEDs lit.

I'm going to be running the Hangover with an external battery pack, it was too close for comfort and quite dim at the end. I tested a 10,000 mAh pack today at home and got 5+ hours on Adaptive. Going to test High tomorrow.

The Evo on High is pretty badass. Next ride I think I will try leaving it there. Adaptive is "ok" but it was quite a bit dimmer at the end (which would equal ~75% brightness according to their graph). I don't think Medium is viable for fast descending.

I think the Evo is _very good_ for a self-contained light at that price. Other folks on the ride had Gloworm X2 and XSV combo. Their lights were brighter for longer. But they also have remotes to turn them up and down as needed, and their lights cost a LOT more 

I'm a newbie to night riding but I'm already convinced that having a remote is key, especially for longer rides...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Bigtuna00 said:


> I think the Evo is _very good_ for a self-contained light at that price. Other folks on the ride had Gloworm X2 and XSV combo. Their lights were brighter for longer. But they also have remotes to turn them up and down as needed, and their lights cost a LOT more
> 
> *I'm a newbie to night riding but I'm already convinced that having a remote is key, especially for longer rides...*


_Cough_, _cough_.....Outbound, are you listening? 

BTW, I love this new "dark mode" option on the forum. Really easy on my eyes. If you want to try it click on the three dots on the upper right hand corner and then click "dark mode".


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*High mode runtime test*

Since my lumen calculations are taken using the lux readings I get from a bounce test I won't be making any output charts on the EVO. The beam of the EVO is just too wide compared to most bike lights to be accurately or fairly measured by this type of test. That being said I got an even 100 min. in the high mode before the output dropped to low which means 5% battery capacity left according to OB. Also worth noting the lux reading were flat as a board from startup to the 100 min. point. The only bike light I have that has a similar beam width is my OB Trail (no charts for that light either) and comparing those two lights the EVO's bounce test readings were almost 40% higher and double the trails max lux results so throw should be significantly improved. I'll try to do the med. mode tonight!
Mole


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

A wireless remote would be killer. Maybe that would be Evo 2.0.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> *High mode runtime test*
> 
> Since my lumen calculations are taken using the lux readings I get from a bounce test I won't be making any output charts on the EVO. The beam of the EVO is just too wide compared to most bike lights to be accurately or fairly measured by this type of test. That being said I got an even 100 min. in the high mode before the output dropped to low which means 5% battery capacity left according to OB. Also worth noting the lux reading were flat as a board from startup to the 100 min. point. The only bike light I have that has a similar beam width is my OB Trail (no charts for that light either) and comparing those two lights the EVO's bounce test readings were almost 40% higher and double the trails max lux results so throw should be significantly improved. I'll try to do the med. mode tonight!
> Mole


Awesome info. 100 "true" high minutes is great.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

cue003 said:


> Awesome info. 100 "true" high minutes is great.


I forget now, How long does the "True High" mode run if you add a good USB battery bank to the mix?


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Cat-man-do said:


> I forget now, How long does the "True High" mode run if you add a good USB battery bank to the mix?


One could do a bit of math to figure this out. from Mole's runtime i calculate 21W Power consumption on high (0,95*37Wh/1,67h) and the charging rate is at ideal conditions at least 10 W (from the outbound page: at least 80 % of 37Wh in 3h charged). Therefore one could nearly double the runtime on high, if the powerbank is connected from the beginning and is able to provide at least 2,2-2,4A at 5V.


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## Scarpa (Aug 16, 2005)

Just received mine via UPS and it's quite a nice light! Having some trouble with the mount though and hoping to get some guidance here.

I'm running a 31.8mm riser bar and it tapers and angles pretty rapidly from the stem. This means the mount is slightly crooked even when pushed as close to the stem as I could get it. It doesn't seem like there is any ability to correct this particular dimension from the mount itself.

Anyone have any tricks or insight to get this mounted cleaner, aside from new bars?


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Scarpa said:


> Just received mine via UPS and it's quite a nice light! Having some trouble with the mount though and hoping to get some guidance here.
> 
> I'm running a 31.8mm riser bar and it tapers and angles pretty rapidly from the stem. This means the mount is slightly crooked even when pushed as close to the stem as I could get it. It doesn't seem like there is any ability to correct this particular dimension from the mount itself.
> 
> Anyone have any tricks or insight to get this mounted cleaner, aside from new bars?


Maybe run the 35mm mount with a shim made out of something like Sugru where you could fix the alignment?


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## Scarpa (Aug 16, 2005)

Velodonata said:


> Maybe run the 35mm mount with a shim made out of something like Sugru where you could fix the alignment?


Thank you! I didn't know this existed and looks very promising.


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

Hey folks, I've been following this forum closely and it's what ultimately led me to buying these lights. I decided to give a quick report on them as it seems very few others are doing so. I'm in Courtenay, B.C and my lights arrived in about a week. I was pleasantly surprised at how quick they turned up and consider myself lucky. I didn't get charged any extra taxes either which is really nice.

My light experience is fairly limited. I have used a few of the niterider lamps, and one of the fenix bc30 units. I have experience with zebralight headlamps but haven't used them as a bike lamp. BC riding is very forested as many of you probably know, so having something with a lot of throw doesn't really serve much of a purpose on the twisty trails around here. I went out for a quick hour lap this evening and here are some thoughts:

Typically, doing laps here involve a climb and then a descent; therefore, it's super easy to switch the settings on the light and I didn't feel a remote would improve the experience at all but ymmv. Just for the heck of it I climbed on low just to see how I would do on a longer ride where I needed to preserve power. I had absolutely no issues running low on climbs and flat traverses, and it would absolutely work getting you down a hill in a pinch in an emergency. Up top I switched between adaptive and high. The difference wasn't massive as I played around a bit with the settings on the descent. I would happily ride adaptive if I wanted to milk battery life, and if I decide to do longer rides I might hook a power bank up to the hangover and just run it on high.

The trail evo has a beautiful wide beam which is extremely smooth and bright. There is no noticeable hotspot, and it provides a real useable experience on the trail. I don't really care how many "lumens" it's pushing, the experience on the trail was great and I ended up riding a black trail I've never ridden before. I would say it extended a powerful wall of light about 10-15m ahead. I wouldn't describe it as throwy at all, but that's definitely not a bad thing because that's the job of a good helmet light.

Before going on the ride I was most skeptical of the hangover, probably because some people had criticized the power and battery life. I can't speak to the battery life issue as of yet, although I'm confident I can hook up a power bank if need be. On the other hand, the hangover really complimented the trail evo due to it's more focused beam which illuminated the trail about 30m ahead. I was surprised that anyone could feel underwhelmed by its power to be honest. Together, these two lights really compliment each other and form a system which makes night riding a pleasure.

While you're on the logging roads, you're not gonna get visibility 100m out with this setup, so if what you're after is maximum throw then you'll want to look elsewhere; however, once you get on singletrack, these things really shine (literally and figuratively). They're definitely much nicer than the niterider and fenix setups I've tried, but obviously I haven't tried any of the higher end lights so can't draw any comparisons there. I'll be riding with a friend who has some more traditional gemini lights next week, and if I can draw any conclusions afterwards I'll post them here.

Finally, I did have some minor mount issues, and I e-mailed outbound about it. They got back to me right in the middle of me drafting this post stating that they're sorting it out, so I thought I'd just give a shoutout and say I'm super impressed with how on top of it their are!

TL: DR - If you ride in the forest or areas with twisty trails, just order a set of these, you won't be dissapointed.

Sorry that was pretty long winded. I'll leave all the output measurements to the pro's on here, but here are a few shots I took this eve. They're not great but at least they're photos!


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Thedanimal said:


> Hey folks, I've been following this forum closely and it's what ultimately led me to buying these lights. I decided to give a quick report on them as it seems very few others are doing so. I'm in Courtenay, B.C and my lights arrived in about a week. I was pleasantly surprised at how quick they turned up and consider myself lucky. I didn't get charged any extra taxes either which is really nice.
> 
> My light experience is fairly limited. I have used a few of the niterider lamps, and one of the fenix bc30 units. I have experience with zebralight headlamps but haven't used them as a bike lamp. BC riding is very forested as many of you probably know, so having something with a lot of throw doesn't really serve much of a purpose on the twisty trails around here. I went out for a quick hour lap this evening and here are some thoughts:
> 
> ...


That's great information thanks alot. You are lucky you received your light so fast. Was it shipped ups? Mine is USPS and still waiting . 🙁


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Med. Mode Runtime*

4:18 to step down (5% battery capacity). Output readings remained consistent @ 50% of the high mode start to finish. Lighthead case temperatures have remained amazingly low during these tests, barely reaching 100°F in 75° ambient temps. while testing in the high mode. Can't wait to get to try the EVO on a ride!
Mole


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

Skooks said:


> That's great information thanks alot. You are lucky you received your light so fast. Was it shipped ups? Mine is USPS and still waiting . 🙁


It was shipped out USPS which actually proved super quick once Canada Post got ahold of it. Sounds like I really di get lucky as once it crossed the border to Mississauga it was ~ 2 days to BC.

At least maybe you won't get dinged at the border with USPS, although you might have to wait a bit longer. Hopefully they arrive soon for you!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> Lighthead case temperatures have remained amazingly low during these tests, barely reaching 100°F in 75° ambient temps. while testing in the high mode.


We too have been very surprised at the thermal efficiency we've been able to gain. Now imagine what that temperature is inside the channels, with air flowing through it, at speed. This is the flux (lumens) vs junction temperature chart. Obviously we all know that as LED's get overheated they lose efficiency, this is how much. Good LED's are "hot rated" like the genuine CREE chips so they are rated when they are at their typical operating temperature which is around 85*C or 185*F. So can see how in something like medium mode, or even a cold winter night ride that junction temperature dropping a bunch and the LED's basically being able to run "cold" helps boost the effiency by about 7-9%. Which when you are talking 2000+ lumens and 25-ish watts of power draw, that's not insignificant.









We have a few other fun tricks we'll be experimenting with soon internally to see what we can push with the thermal situation and how we can remove even more heat in an even tighter package. Modern thermal engineering tools really let us quickly iterate and experiment with what works and what doesn't. Will be one of those fun projects that won't lead directly to a new product most likely (think like $1000 halo light) but it will let us find out what the limits are, how to improve it, and trickle down that R&D to other product lines as we can figure out cheaper ways to get similar performance.


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## Hackin' Lugis (Dec 18, 2020)

Went for my first ride with the Evo this morning. The first words out of my mouth were "THANKS, MATT!" Here's a brief comparison with other lights I've used:

Lupine Wilma/Betty/Alpha: The beam patterns with all of these are inferior to the Evo. The Wilma and Betty are simply round, powerful "flashlights"; the Alpha is powerful but does not have a clean, even beam like the Evo. The only advantages the Lupines have are overall brightness and the bluetooth remote. And it goes without saying that they're ridiculously overpriced.

Magicshine Monteer 6500: Good beam pattern but not as wide/even as the Evo. Plus, the Monteer's color is slightly white-ish (I prefer neutral tints). The Monteer's advantage is that it is brighter.

Gloworm X2/XS: In my humble opinion, just okay beam patterns--too narrow despite use of the available wide-angle optics. 

Light and Motion Seca 2500: Very good beam pattern but not as wide as the Evo. Also, the hotspot is rounder and more noticeable than the Evo's well-designed "hot-rectangle."

Cateye Volt 6000: A massive wall of even light, but disappointingly poor throw considering the sheer lumen output; noisy, intrusive fan.

What I like about the Evo: WIDE (a useful 180-degree spread), smooth beam; neutral tint; adequate throw for moderate speeds; no external battery; consistent light output; no need for a spot-beam helmet light unless bombing downhill.

Fantastic job, Outbound!


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Hackin' Lugis said:


> Went for my first ride with the Evo this morning. The first words out of my mouth were "THANKS, MATT!" Here's a brief comparison with other lights I've used:
> 
> Lupine Wilma/Betty/Alpha: The beam patterns with all of these are inferior to the Evo. The Wilma and Betty are simply round, powerful "flashlights"; the Alpha is powerful but does not have a clean, even beam like the Evo. The only advantages the Lupines have are overall brightness and the bluetooth remote. And it goes without saying that they're ridiculously overpriced.
> 
> ...


Great write up and comparisons. 
The Monteer and Lupines are brighter as you say but I do wonder if they are regulated or more like adaptive brightness that reduces quickly over time. It would be good to see a graph comparing the time vs output of these lights.


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## Topbiketoursportugal (Dec 18, 2020)

Great write up and comparisons!


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## Hackin' Lugis (Dec 18, 2020)

cue003 said:


> Great write up and comparisons.
> The Monteer and Lupines are brighter as you say but I do wonder if they are regulated or more like adaptive brightness that reduces quickly over time. It would be good to see a graph comparing the time vs output of these lights.


Thanks. That's a good question which I forgot to address.The Lupines reduce power VERY quickly unless you're going fast and it's cold; consequently, their rated high power outputs aren't useful except when descending. Regarding the Monteer, I didn't run it at high unless descending so I didn't experience the power reduction with increasing heat buildup. Maybe Mr. Mole would be able to do the output vs. time graph that you refer to?


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Hackin' Lugis said:


> Went for my first ride with the Evo this morning. The first words out of my mouth were "THANKS, MATT!" Here's a brief comparison with other lights I've used:
> 
> Lupine Wilma/Betty/Alpha: The beam patterns with all of these are inferior to the Evo. The Wilma and Betty are simply round, powerful "flashlights"; the Alpha is powerful but does not have a clean, even beam like the Evo. The only advantages the Lupines have are overall brightness and the bluetooth remote. And it goes without saying that they're ridiculously overpriced.


I was hoping a former lupine user would compare the Evo to those Lupines. Thanks for sharing! I was already guessing along those lines you wrote.



cue003 said:


> Great write up and comparisons.
> The Monteer and Lupines are brighter as you say but I do wonder if they are regulated or more like adaptive brightness that reduces quickly over time. It would be good to see a graph comparing the time vs output of these lights.


as said by @Hackin' Lugis : Lupines do not step down by default, but those lupines are thermally not really designed for the max power outputs, unless you have cold temperatures and sufficient airflows. Even my SL-AF gets at 12 W pretty hot at nightly summer temps. My Outbound Focal Road dissipates more heat better. In case you want to use google translate, a user at a german flashlight forum made some extensive runtime graphs (2nd post) for a lupine betty, using either 1 or 2 fans or water cooling to evaluate performance.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Scarpa said:


> Just received mine via UPS and it's quite a nice light! Having some trouble with the mount though and hoping to get some guidance here.
> 
> I'm running a 31.8mm riser bar and it tapers and angles pretty rapidly from the stem. This means the mount is slightly crooked even when pushed as close to the stem as I could get it. It doesn't seem like there is any ability to correct this particular dimension from the mount itself.
> 
> Anyone have any tricks or insight to get this mounted cleaner, aside from new bars?


Hmmm...this would only work if the lamp is able to work with a Gopro mount. (?) ( Does it work with a GPro mount? ) Yes, tapered or angled handlebars are a bit*h.

*@MRM,* Thanks for the run time test on medium. 
*@Thedanimal ; *Thanks for the photos. I'm assuming these are on high. Would love to see a user photo of the lamp on medium setting.


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

Cat-man-do said:


> Hmmm...this would only work if the lamp is able to work with a Gopro mount. (?) ( Does it work with a GPro mount? ) Yes, tapered or angled handlebars are a bit*h.
> 
> *@MRM,* Thanks for the run time test on medium.
> *@Thedanimal ; *Thanks for the photos. I'm assuming these are on high. Would love to see a user photo of the lamp on medium setting.





Cat-man-do said:


> Hmmm...this would only work if the lamp is able to work with a Gopro mount. (?) ( Does it work with a GPro mount? ) Yes, tapered or angled handlebars are a bit*h.
> 
> *@MRM,* Thanks for the run time test on medium.
> *@Thedanimal ; *Thanks for the photos. I'm assuming these are on high. Would love to see a user photo of the lamp on medium setting.


Those were shot on high, but I can totally go take some on medium. It's terrible weather until Sunday but i'll aim to go out and get some photos Sunday eve if it improves. To really show the difference in brightness, I would need to lock the exposure settings and take a photo on high and a photo on medium for you to compare. Unfortunately, I don't think my google pixel is going to be able to do that very well and the result will probably end up exposure correcting for an optimal histogram. I'll do my best and report back if it works, but I sold my DSLR a few years back when I got out of photography.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

I'm so happy that the USPS decided not to lose or destroy my order. It arrived about a week late, after a round trip to Upstate New York and back over to San Diego.

My first impression is wow. Fantastic. And now I don't have any excuses not to go out and ride.

Since I couldn't give them a full charge, only charging at 2.4A for about 1 hour, I went out with both on Medium. That worked fine for my mostly XC ride. On the speedy downhill sections, it was fine at this level. Maybe super techie stuff requires high, but medium was fine for what I was doing. I took a few pictures and the one I'm posting is just the EVO, no Hangover, on medium


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

cue003 said:


> Great write up and comparisons.
> The Monteer and Lupines are brighter as you say but I do wonder if they are regulated or more like adaptive brightness that reduces quickly over time. It would be good to see a graph comparing the time vs output of these lights.


monteer and lupine betty are ~*150 gram pure aluminum* bodys=heatsinks and can handle about that with a little bit airflow ~30 Watt thermal power.
betty result about that in ~3000 Lumen over time
monteer result about that in ~4500 lumen over time

lupine petty spotlight
monteer mixed= flood+spot.

this evo draws in high 18 Watt?
so you get ~1100 lumen floodlight on outpu*t a joke i*n compare to the uper two.

for the power=heat what this evo makes a light 70 gram 100% aluminium body is enought for a solid heatsink.

the better question is why the hell is this evo = ~1000 lumen floodlight so heavy and bulky for that what it does?

the other question for what 9 LEDs????

1 take a 30x30mm aluminium body put in 1 LED with a small optik and get a 1000 Lumen floodlight. but 3 times lower enegry consumption.



https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/img_20181024_154809-jpg.787954/




https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/k-6-jpg.778255/




https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/k-2-jpg.773160/



so Outbound need a big 9 LEDs spaceship to do that what i have do with one in a small housing.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

To all: please ignore "lostplaces" (a.k.a "herbs") comments, he doesn't get the difference between heat capacity and thermal conductivity and he doesn't understand that the limiting factor of heat dissipation is the heat transfer from the surface of the light body to the air. Outbound explained pretty nicely here in the forum why a die cast housing made with magnesium (alloy) is as good as one made with aluminum (alloy), he also explained it less detailed on his webpage.
Neither can he understand any (LED) data sheet properly and is constantly fantasizing about lumen values.
No amount of explanation will change his mind. Any other light than than from flashlight manufacturers is garbage in is mind. He already flooded the Hangover thread with that spammy nonsense.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

FWIW, I have a Lupine Alpha and although it’s a very nice light, the lumen output is misleading. In the real world, even in 40 degree temperatures going downhill , max output is less than one minute. It the middle setting, in 70 degree temps, it will step down in power frequently. I’m no engineer, but high lumens are useless if unavailable because of cooling issues. 

What Alpha has going for it, other than unsurpassed quality, are the six LEDs which give a great light pattern. In the lower output settings, it provides plenty of useable light. My Lupine lights cost close to 2K. My previous, much lower price Lupines were stolen. A much cheaper replacement winked out on me when starting a descent. I think the Outbounds seem like a good compromise between quality and real world performance. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

EchoTony said:


> . I took a few pictures and the one I'm posting is just the EVO, no Hangover, on medium
> View attachment 1907277


Nice medium mode beam shot. Well done.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

biking_tg said:


> To all: please ignore lostplaces comments, he doesn't get the difference between heat capacity and thermal conductivity and he doesn't understand that the limiting factor of heat dissipation is the heattransfer from the surface of the light body to the air. Neither can he understand data sheets. No amount of explanation will change his mind. Any other light than than from flashlight manufacturers is garbage in is mind.
> He already flooded the Hangover thread with that spammy nonsense. Outbound explained pretty nicely why a Magnesium diecast does the job properly.


Don't forget he also seems to be misquoting a lot of stuff, or intentionally trying to mislead people. 1000 lumens? We are doing minimum 2200 lumens or so on evo, and pulling down 21-22W of power. By having that spread out over 9 LED's we can run the chips in their happy thermal range since they are only operating at 2.4W, getting the most efficiency out of it as well as spreading out the thermal load. The internal cooling helps supercharge that ability to shed heat resulting in a lamp that can perform 20-25% more efficently just on thermal properties alone (compare that graph earlier for an overheated LED vs a supercooled one like on Evo). Add in that the XD16 chips are 30% more efficent than the older generation of chips and end up with a light that can really balance power and runtime.

Also, that super large magnesium die cast? 60g, with TONS of surface area compared to a compact 150g aluminum body, which is why this thing operates as well as it does.

But I think most everyone knows that lostplaces literally hates anything that isn't zebralight, or whatever other amazon/ebay flashlight is out there. Not sure why he continues to try and spread misinformation about our stuff.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Outbound said:


> Don't forget he also seems to be misquoting a lot of stuff, or intentionally trying to mislead people. 1000 lumens? We are doing minimum 2200 lumens or so on evo, and pulling down 21-22W of power. By having that spread out over 9 LED's we can run the chips in their happy thermal range since they are only operating at 2.4W, getting the most efficiency out of it as well as spreading out the thermal load. The internal cooling helps supercharge that ability to shed heat resulting in a lamp that can perform 20-25% more efficently just on thermal properties alone. Add in that the XD16 chips are 30% more efficent than the older generation of chips and end up with a light that can really balance power and runtime.
> 
> Also, that super large magnesium die cast? 60g, with TONS of surface area compared to a compact 150g aluminum body, which is why this thing operates as well as it does.
> 
> But I think most everyone knows that lostplaces literally hates anything that isn't zebralight, or whatever other amazon/ebay flashlight is out there. Not sure why he continues to try and spread misinformation about our stuff.


Thanks for the detailed information Matt. It's great to see actual numbers and engineering information rather than misleading, incorrect garbage. Fortunately most people understand you guys make a great, well-designed product and couldn't care less what this guy says.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Thedanimal said:


> Those were shot on high, but I can totally go take some on medium. It's terrible weather until Sunday but i'll aim to go out and get some photos Sunday eve if it improves. *To really show the difference in brightness, I would need to lock the exposure settings and take a photo on high and a photo on medium for you to compare. Unfortunately, I don't think my google pixel is going to be able to do that very well and the result will probably end up exposure correcting for an optimal histogram.* I'll do my best and report back if it works, but I sold my DSLR a few years back when I got out of photography.


I have the same problem when I take night photos with my Samsung S9. I wish there was a way to lock the exposure because like yours mine tends to automatically adjust to get the optimal ( brightest ) picture. I might have to search for a photo app that gives you the option to lock in the exposure setting. When I was doing my user review of the Fireflies E07 I took photos at a couple different outputs. When I got home and started to look at the photos I had a really hard time telling the photo of the high from the photo of the medium output. Very frustrating to say the least.

Good news. While writing this post I did a quick google search on the issue. Seems both of the phones ( yours / mine ) photo apps work about the same way. With mine I just press the screen till a small circle appears. This locks both the exposure and focus. I tried this out inside my home and it appears to work.  Your pixel looks to work almost the same ( see link ) Can't wait now to try it out on some trails. Problem now is that it's so cold that I have no desire to go out on a trail ride.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Outbound said:


> Don't forget he also seems to be misquoting a lot of stuff, or intentionally trying to mislead people. 1000 lumens? We are doing minimum 2200 lumens or so on evo, and pulling down 21-22W of power. By having that spread out over 9 LED's we can run the chips in their happy thermal range since they are only operating at 2.4W, getting the most efficiency out of it as well as spreading out the thermal load. The internal cooling helps supercharge that ability to shed heat resulting in a lamp that can perform 20-25% more efficently just on thermal properties alone (compare that graph earlier for an overheated LED vs a supercooled one like on Evo). Add in that the XD16 chips are 30% more efficent than the older generation of chips and end up with a light that can really balance power and runtime.
> 
> Also, that super large magnesium die cast? 60g, with TONS of surface area compared to a compact 150g aluminum body, which is why this thing operates as well as it does.
> 
> *But I think most everyone knows that lostplaces literally hates anything that isn't zebralight, or whatever other amazon/ebay flashlight is out there. Not sure why he continues to try and spread misinformation about our stuff.*


Well for the record he's not picking on your product alone. I too am a user of torches but with that said I've had my run-ins with him too. At least I know the limitations of torches and always make sure others know those limitations when I review them for use as a bike light. I've had my frustrations dealing with him, no doubt about that. When he started to compare the EVO to one of his torches I just had to close my eyes and wonder if he even dared to read through all of the thread posts before saying what he said.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Thedanimal said:


> To really show the difference in brightness, I would need to lock the exposure settings and take a photo on high and a photo on medium for you to compare





Cat-man-do said:


> I have the same problem when I take night photos with my Samsung S9. I wish there was a way to lock the exposure because like yours mine tends to automatically adjust to get the optimal ( brightest ) picture. I might have to search for a photo app that gives you the option to lock in the exposure setting.


Usually all phones do have a "pro(fessional) camera mode" where you can adjust ISO, AWB, exposure and aperture settings (and then they stay that way). It is really useful when trying to highlight a certain feature or trying to make the photo as realistic as possible. A quick search found this video for the Samsung S9, where it is adressed. unfortunately it seems google didn't include a pro mode at all in the pixel 4...


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

Cat-man-do said:


> Good news. While writing this post I did a quick google search on the issue. Seems both of the phones ( yours / mine ) photo apps work about the same way. With mine I just press the screen till a small circle appears. This locks both the exposure and focus. I tried this out inside my home and it appears to work.  Your pixel looks to work almost the same ( see link ) Can't wait now to try it out on some trails. Problem now is that it's so cold that I have no desire to go out on a trail ride.





biking_tg said:


> Usually all phones do have a "pro(fessional) camera mode" where you can adjust ISO, AWB, exposure and aperture settings (and then they stay that way). It is really useful when trying to highlight a certain feature or trying to make the photo as realistic as possible. A quick search found this video for the Samsung S9, where it is adressed. unfortunately it seems google didn't include a pro mode at all in the pixel 4...


Thanks friends, I suppose I could have googled that to check but you did it for me! I'll aim to get out this eve and take a couple of comparison shots on my ride. It's still fairly warm here, about 5 degrees in the evenings. Definitely a nice shift in temperature from my past few winters in Winnipeg and Whitehorse.



Outbound said:


> But I think most everyone knows that lostplaces literally hates anything that isn't zebralight


I have a zebralight h600 (getting repaired right now), and they're sweet headlamps, but their heat management is definitely not on the level as your lamps: they get hot very quickly. They're also not intended to run at the full 1600 lumens for more than a few minutes before ramping down to a much lower setting. I do think they have their place for a hiking lamp, but not sure why lostplaces is so interested in being critical rather than constructive. Also, lostplaces, do you actually have a trail evo? It seems like you have no data to support any of your statements and maybe it would be worthwhile going and trying one... you might be surprised.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Thedanimal said:


> I have a zebralight h600 (getting repaired right now), and they're sweet headlamps, but their heat management is definitely not on the level as your lamps: they get hot very quickly. They're also not intended to run at the full 1600 lumens for more than a few minutes before ramping down to a much lower setting. I do think they have their place for a hiking lamp, but not sure why lostplaces is so interested in being critical rather than constructive. Also, lostplaces, do you actually have a trail evo? It seems like you have no data to support any of your statements and maybe it would be worthwhile going and trying one... you might be surprised.


I don't believe his motive is being informative or being critical for the benefit of anyone or anything. He's just being critical because he's on the internet and he's safe in his anonymity.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

I did finally get a night ride with my new EVO (and my Hangover) last week. The wider beam pattern is a godsend for flow trails - it really allows you to see around the corners and ride more proactively. And the mounting bracket is solid too - no more stopping to readjust the light every couple minutes because a rubber strap is slipping on your handlebar like I had to on my last couple lights.


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## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

Finally got to get a real ride in with them last night! I had the EVO on the bars and a Hangover on my head, my boy was in the lead with a Trail on the bars and Hangover on his head. Trail was like daylight. Real happy with the beam pattern on the EVO and Hangover, nice and smooth and even. Color light was fairly neutral. Seems like color rendering is a bit on the lower side, but it was still well within the good range. There are lots of leaf covered trails right now which even in the daylight can be a challenge. We had all 4 lights on adaptive and were in the dark for about an hour and never noticed them dim down at all. 

Thanks again guys for a solid product!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Also, another reason why we keep going with multiple dies is not only for heat load spreading, but also to make the products take up less space. I personally hate long and thin cylindrical lights. Great for flashlights where your hand is wrapping around the lamp, but not for helmet mounting or centered on the handlebars.

So when I developed Hangover and Evo. I started with the battery pack sideways, and then determine how we can package everything to be as slim as possible and utilize all the space. To get the same optical efficiency of multi-emitters with a single die you need a long and deep optic to collect all that light. So not only are you putting an intense heat load in the middle of the lamp, but it's a buried deep inside a big optic that has to be long. Of course there is a limit too, can't just cram 12 LED's on a thin single row of optics and call it good, since the TIR lenses themselves need to be a fairly minimum size (about the size of what's on Hangover) in order to be optically efficient. Otherwise can't properly coliminate and direct the light where you want unless get a smaller emitter size. There are chips out there, but too expensive and too niche right now to really be useful, talking stuff for pixel lighting in vehicles (Digital Audi Matrix LED headlights: one million pixels dancing in step | audi.com).

Now... will I say that all single emitter lights are terrible? Nope. There is a time and a place for it. Things like the Lupine Neo for example where you want a single ultra-lightweight type optic, plenty of tricks to pull to make it shape a good beam pattern. However for what we design, the multi-emitter philosphy is something that is born not only out of thermal considierations but also space efficiency and visual interest.


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

I got unlucky and had some covid symptoms so I haven't been able to put a lot of time on the lights and take photos. Tonight I got the negative result so I went to try and snap a few photos. The pixel still seems to slightly manipulate the exposure slightly as part of its post processing procedure, but here are a few samples. From left to right: Evo medium with Hangover on high, Evo only on high, Evo only on medium.





















I think the evo is a great light, but as I said before, I feel as though a good helmet light (such as the hangover) really functions synergistically alongside the evo to create a lighting system that makes night riding super fun! I'm very excited to get out and do some more night riding. If anyone would like any more photographs in specific lighting scenario's I can give it a go.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Thedanimal said:


> I think the evo is a great light, but as I said before, I feel as though a good helmet light (such as the hangover) really functions synergistically alongside the evo to create a lighting system that makes night riding super fun! I'm very excited to get out and do some more night riding.


That honestly would make Tom smile so hard. He's always been a huge proponent of night riding and how much fun it is. Having great lights really does help with that and we definitely do agree that a holistic system designed to compliment each other (such as Evo and Hangover) is the ultimate solution over any single light.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Thedanimal said:


> I got unlucky and had some covid symptoms so I haven't been able to put a lot of time on the lights and take photos. Tonight I got the negative result so I went to try and snap a few photos. The pixel still seems to slightly manipulate the exposure slightly as part of its post processing procedure, but here are a few samples. From left to right: Evo medium with Hangover on high, Evo only on high, Evo only on medium.
> .


Thanks for the photos. I can tell a difference in the last two but your phone camera might have a couple more settings that might enhance the difference even more.

On a side note I thought I'd add some information concerning the Covid virus since you mentioned getting tested. I work in the medical laboratory field and although I'm not a tech or doctor I learn new information from such every day that I feel others should know about. Before getting tested with the swab culture you should get the covid antigen test first unless you really think you have major systems and feel really bad. The antigen test ( which is a blood test ) will tell you if you've already been exposed to the virus and never noticed any symptoms. If the antigen test comes up positive you already have immunity. If negative you can then start with the culture nasal swab test. Here's the thing about the swab test. If you just got exposed to the virus and it is in your system less than a couple days it's not going to show a positive result until you've had it for three days or more. ( note takes about three days to get the results from the swab test. If it shows negative and you still feel like you might have the virus get the swab test again. This of course means waiting three more days. For people who are most at risk ( the elderly with other co-morbidity factors ) if they feel really bad they might want to go to the hospital and get the sputum / saliva test which from what I've been told will give more accurate results within 24 hrs.

The vaccine is on the way. I just hope the CDC doesn't go with their "identity politics" plan to decide who gets the vaccine first. If that would happen a lot of older Americans are going to die. First one's to get it should be the elderly ( over sixty five ) with co-morbidity factors and older Doctors and nurses who are the first line responders who work with the Covid patients.

A couple nights ago I was about to go into one of the local hospitals when a man wearing surgical gear and a very complex protective mask ask me to turn around and go back outside. Turned out they were transporting people who had the virus and were taking them outside to where the transport ambulances were. Even though I was was wearing a common surgical mask I felt a little wary about going back into the hospital and walking down the hall that they brought the patients out through ( even though the patients were wearing surgical masks ). I held my breath as long as I could walking down that hall.

On another side note I heard the other day on the news what masks work the best; The N95 masks offered the best protection and rated at 90% protection. The blue surgical masks rated at 50% protection and the cloth masks rated at < 1%. Knowing this I would not wear a cloth mask.


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

Cat-man-do said:


> Thanks for the photos. I can tell a difference in the last two but your phone camera might have a couple more settings that might enhance the difference even more.
> 
> On a side note I thought I'd add some information concerning the Covid virus since you mentioned getting tested. I work in the medical laboratory field and although I'm not a tech or doctor I learn new information from such every day that I feel others should know about. Before getting tested with the swab culture you should get the covid antigen test first unless you really think you have major systems and feel really bad. The antigen test ( which is a blood test ) will tell you if you've already been exposed to the virus and never noticed any symptoms. If the antigen test comes up positive you already have immunity. If negative you can then start with the culture nasal swab test. Here's the thing about the swab test. If you just got exposed to the virus and it is in your system less than a couple days it's not going to show a positive result until you've had it for three days or more. ( note takes about three days to get the results from the swab test. If it shows negative and you still feel like you might have the virus get the swab test again. This of course means waiting three more days. For people who are most at risk ( the elderly with other co-morbidity factors ) if they feel really bad they might want to go to the hospital and get the sputum / saliva test which from what I've been told will give more accurate results within 24 hrs.
> 
> ...


Woah, thanks for the info! In Canada we have drive through testing sites and on the Island they're doing a gargle test when possible and swabbing as a last resort I believe. I haven't heard of an antigen test and I don't know if it's being offered unless I went to a clinic and asked for it. I'm guessing the system is probably set up quite a bit differently in Canada because as far as I know the front line workers and elderly are the first ones getting the vaccine, and the vaccinations have already begun. The general population in Canada isn't projected to be able to get vaccinated for many months to come (as far as I know, at least) and there doesn't seem to be much resistance to this although I admit I'm no longer on facebook so I'm probably not seeing the vast myriad of opinions which are out there!

Luckily, I wasn't too worried about actually having the virus anyway, but right now with numbers surging even the tiniest symptom deserves investigation!

D


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

I'm still waiting on the usps. Shipped on the 7th and the last update was the 20th saying that it was at a hub that is waaaay out of the normal flow. Maybe it will show up soon.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

rain164845 said:


> I'm still waiting on the usps. Shipped on the 7th and the last update was the 20th saying that it was at a hub that is waaaay out of the normal flow. Maybe it will show up soon.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


USPS is all sorts of f'd up right now. I just sent something to Vancouver BC from San Francisco for warranty, and they routed it through Washington DC. Jenson sent me something via USPS on the 15th from SoCal and it still hasn't arrived - normally it gets here in 1 day.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

I got my shipping notice on December 8, and Canada Post just informed me that my EVO will be delivered on December 27 if I am lucky. Seems like it's not just the USPS that's messed up.


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## Fourtrax (Mar 17, 2013)

Took a few pictures last night. Pictures taken with IPhone X with AE/AF lock set starting with the light on high then kept the same focus /exposure on Med and low. 
Click for Full size image.
EVO Only: H, M, L




















EVO Bars + Hangover on the helmet. Aiming the helmet near the top of the rise.
Both EVO and Hangover on the same setting at the same time (H-H, M-M, L-L):




















For me, I could easily run on low up to about 10-12mph with EVO only on trails I already know. I typically will run everything on Medium when climbing or slower trails and then switch to adaptive or high when I know I am coming up to a fast descent. The EVO has been awesome so far, especially coupled with Hangover.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

I did a 1&1/2 hour ride last night. Put both the Hangover and EVO on Adaptive. Both were still going at the end. I didn't notice any change in output even though I understand it was there. The EVO had 2 green bars left and the Hangover was on the last green bar. An hour-and-a-half is about my normal ride during daylight, so this setup is exactly what I was looking for. If I need to go longer, I can use an external power supply, but for 90% of my rides, I'm going cordless.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Fourtrax said:


> Took a few pictures last night. Pictures taken with IPhone X with AE/AF lock set starting with the light on high then kept the same focus /exposure on Med and low.
> Click for Full size image.
> EVO Only: H, M, L
> View attachment 1908220
> ...


Good one* Fourtrax!* Thanks for the photos. These really show how well the beam pattern is spread out and how much light is provided for the different modes. No artifacts which is a big plus. I will point out however that the photos are taken on a light colored surface which of course makes things more visible and makes light carry farther down the trail. Since the color temp is 5000K I suspect that it should do a decent job on darker / damper dirt trails as well. If I owned one of these likely I'd run it on medium most of the time and use my Firefires E01 ( 5700K tint temp. ) on the lid as a complement. Not sure I want to buy one but sure would love to try one out. Too bad Outbound doesn't offer some kind of trial program.

*Now the other big question I have is; " If you use an external USB battery bank at the start and only use the medium mode, I wonder how long the lamp will run on medium mode before powering down?"*


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Cat-man-do said:


> Now the other big question I have is; " If you use an external USB battery bank at the start and only use the medium mode, I wonder how long the lamp will run on medium mode before powering down?"


This can be answered with some math: medium mode requires 9W power draw (37 wh/ 4.2h). If your powerbank can deliver 2.4A Amps (that's what Outbound always recommends for hangover), you'll drain the power bank completely first and then the internal battery.
So lets assume a 10000 mAh powerbank with 75% efficiency is in your pocket, it provides 28 Wh of usable capacity. Take into account 10% electronic losses while charging EVO (might be a bit pessimistic, just to be on the safe side) and you'll have 25Wh left. --> With a fully charged EVO you'd get 6.7h runtime before dropping to low mode.
And since the charging rate is as high as the power consumption in medium mode, you wouldn't even have to connect it from the beginning, you could also connect the powerbank at 50% battery state and still enjoy 2.5h additional hours of runtime.


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

biking_tg said:


> This can be answered with some math: medium mode requires 9W power draw (37 wh/ 4.2h). If your powerbank can deliver 2.4A Amps (that's what Outbound always recommends for hangover), you'll drain the power bank completely first and then the internal battery.
> So lets assume a 10000 mAh powerbank with 75% efficiency is in your pocket, it provides 28 Wh of usable capacity. Take into account 10% electronic losses while charging EVO (might be a bit pessimistic, just to be on the safe side) and you'll have 25Wh left. --> With a fully charged EVO you'd get 6.7h runtime before dropping to low mode.
> And since the charging rate is as high as the power consumption in medium mode, you wouldn't even have to connect it from the beginning, you could also connect the powerbank at 50% battery state and still enjoy 2.5h additional hours of runtime.


OL recommends connecting the pack the entire time, though I suspect that may have to do with running in Adaptive Mode.

You'll want a QC pack specifically as that's what OL's lights support.


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

I consider myself lucky, and doubly so: got my Evo Downhill package today, and for some reason it got through customs without anyone checking it. Since there are no direct flights from the US because of Covid, everything passes through some big hub like Frankfurt, and probably it got together with all the packages coming from Germany. Won't be complaining, that's a 30% price reduction for me . Both lights are charging right now, they are pulling 5V/2,4A-2,6A from the Anker PowerIQ 2.0 charging port, and 9V/1,3A from the QC2.0 charger. I don't have a QC3.0 compliant charger or powerbank, but it seems the PowerIQ 2.0 compatible Anker powerbanks could be used to power the Evo or the Hangover on longer rides. Will have to test this though.

My first impressions are very good. Both lights feel very sturdy, craftsmanship is excellent. The Evo's mount is a really cool piece of kit. The lamp itself is much more substantial than I was expecting, much more "solid". The weather here is quite foggy, not great for trying out the lights, plus we have curfew between 8pm-5am, however I did some testing in the garden (no pictures yet). The Evo has about the same throw on high as the Lumina 1800 Dual on high (that is 1500 lumens according to NiteRider), but the beam is much wider. The Hangover is more focused. A bit less bright in the center then my ultrafocused 1000 lumen Lunivo Sirius 1000 Mini, but its beam is more elliptical. I am really looking forward trying them out on the trails.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Matt posted the following on the Trail thread about the Evo on HIGH and battery packs. 

“While Evo can be piggybacked with USB-C, the power drain on high will still outpace the max charging input so won't be able to have it on full-high with a powerbank constantly like Hangover.”


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I've had my EVO out 3 times so far and am quite happy with it's overall performance. As everyone else has noted the beam is wide and smooth and powerful! The med. mode works very well for me with the Hangover but for my taste the Monteer 3500 I combo'd it with Monday is a better fit for the trails I typically ride (more power and lots more throw). Unfortunately I also get to report that the EVO crashes well. Recent storms added a new trail feature (sharp drop off) to a normally smooth section that actually didn't look too bad on the approach but I went from thinking "new trail featute" to being on the ground so fast I couldn't even tell you how I crashed. Anyway not a mark on the EVO unlike the road rash covering a good portion of the left side of mt face, one broken rib, and the worst of it, a broken scapula on my left shoulder. So for the next few weeks I'll be vicariously enjoying everyones ride reports.
Mole


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> I've had my EVO out 3 times so far and am quite happy with it's overall performance. As everyone else has noted the beam is wide and smooth and powerful! The med. mode works very well for me with the Hangover but for my taste the Monteer 3500 I combo'd it with Monday is a better fit for the trails I typically ride (more power and lots more throw). Unfortunately I also get to report that the EVO crashes well. Recent storms added a new trail feature (sharp drop off) to a normally smooth section that actually didn't look too bad on the approach but I went from thinking "new trail featute" to being on the ground so fast I couldn't even tell you how I crashed. Anyway not a mark on the EVO unlike the road rash covering a good portion of the left side of mt face, one broken rib, and the worst of it, a broken scapula on my left shoulder. So for the next few weeks I'll be vicariously enjoying everyones ride reports.
> Mole
> 
> i used with it
> ...


Ouch!!! Speedy recovery.

Did I read your response correctly? you paired the Monteer 3500 with the Evo? Monteer on your helmet?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

cue003 said:


> Ouch!!! Speedy recovery.
> 
> Did I read your response correctly? you paired the Monteer 3500 with the Evo? Monteer on your helmet?


Monteer on the helmet. The 3500 uses SST20 emitters and according to MS has the most throw distance of the Monteer line. I ran it with a FMA 5000mAh 2 cell 21700 battery.
Mole


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## DrPete (Jul 20, 2004)

Super impressed with this setup so far. This shot is with the Evo Downhill package-the hangover is the reason you can see the bushes waaay out there in the center of the frame.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Bigtuna00 said:


> OL recommends connecting the pack the entire time, though I suspect that may have to do with running in Adaptive Mode.
> You'll want a QC pack specifically as that's what OL's lights support.


That's correct, on adaptive and especially high one needs to connect the powerbank from the beginning, as power consumption is higher than the charging rate (High 21-22W, and Charging is at max 12-13W), as shown by @Wombath a few post earlier and by backcalculating from the official charging times.
Outbound posted in the hangover thread that any powerbank with 5V/2.4A should do the job as well (and that fits as well with the data shown by @Wombath)



Outbound said:


> We are doing minimum 2200 lumens or so on evo, and pulling down 21-22W of power.


by the way, what's the max lux? you said roughly double the values from focal trail? so that should be 110-120 lux (@10m) in the center? So roughly same as the focal road?



MRMOLE said:


> . Anyway not a mark on the EVO unlike the road rash covering a good portion of the left side of mt face, one broken rib, and the worst of it, a broken scapula on my left shoulder.


Ouch! Wish you a speedy recovery!



MRMOLE said:


> Monteer on the helmet. The 3500 uses SST20 emitters and according to MS has the most throw distance of the Monteer line. I ran it with a FMA 5000mAh 2 cell 21700 battery.
> Mole


31,000 cd (or 310 lux at 10m) is pretty impressive (Data from magicshineuk.com) and results in a lot of throw! Even the Monteer 6500 has "only" 20,000cd and the 8000 25,000cd


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Mine showed up today! And then it got promptly confiscated and stuffed under the tree. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Took a look at my Strava numbers and set 4 Personal Records on this ride. Matched my PR on a 1/3 mile slightly tech downhill. Says a lot about the quality of the lighting. 


EchoTony said:


> I did a 1&1/2 hour ride last night. Put both the Hangover and EVO on Adaptive. Both were still going at the end. I didn't notice any change in output even though I understand it was there. The EVO had 2 green bars left and the Hangover was on the last green bar. An hour-and-a-half is about my normal ride during daylight, so this setup is exactly what I was looking for. If I need to go longer, I can use an external power supply, but for 90% of my rides, I'm going cordless.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> I've had my EVO out 3 times so far and am quite happy with it's overall performance..... I crashed. Anyway not a mark on the EVO unlike the road rash covering a good portion of the left side of mt face, one broken rib, and the worst of it,* a broken scapula on my left shoulder*. So for the next few weeks I'll be vicariously enjoying everyones ride reports.
> Mole


😣 Uhg! Bad enough a broken rib but that broken scapula has got to hurt. Going to make trying to sleep really difficult, particularly if like me you are a side sleeper.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Just received my EVO and it's going straight under the 🌲. Merry Christmas to me!


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## jpzeroday (Jul 27, 2016)

Got my combo set for Christmas. Excited to take it out.

Had an ITUO setup previously. I have one of their battery packs left. Can I use this with the EVO and Hangover. Any tips on how to connect it to USB-C? I have the female polarized connector with threaded weather cap on the battery? Could I build or buy a male to USB-C connector?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

jpzeroday said:


> Got my combo set for Christmas. Excited to take it out.
> 
> Had an ITUO setup previously. I have one of their battery packs left. Can I use this with the EVO and Hangover. Any tips on how to connect it to USB-C? I have the female polarized connector with threaded weather cap on the battery? Could I build or buy a male to USB-C connector?


Magicshine MJ6086 adapter. Not sure they still sell these but I found this listed on ebay.
MoleMagicShine MJ6086 Battery to USB Adapter - Use Bike Battery as a USB Power Bank 92145323700 | eBay


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

We are working on a dc5521 to usb converter that is much slimmer than the one magicshine used to sell so that users of the old external battery packs, and anyone with a dc5521 pack can use those to supplement evo or hangover power.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Outbound said:


> We are working on a dc5521 to usb converter that is much slimmer than the one magicshine used to sell so that users of the old external battery packs, and anyone with a dc5521 pack can use those to supplement evo or hangover power.


Sweet. Do you have an approximate timeframe when the converter will be ready?


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## tacoma22 (Feb 27, 2020)

Received my trail evo before Christmas. Didn’t expect it to show up until after the new year! 

Awesome light. Thanks outbound! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## majorjake (Sep 5, 2017)

Thedanimal said:


> Finally, I did have some minor mount issues, and I e-mailed outbound about it. They got back to me right in the middle of me drafting this post stating that they're sorting it out...


What was the mount issue you had?


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

majorjake said:


> What was the mount issue you had?


My 31.8 mm adapter snapped at the hinge. Not sure if I overtightened it (possible) or it's an issue with manufacture. Tom responded to my email within a few minutes and had a new one shipped out shortly after. I was able to use the larger mount with some Gorilla tape around the bar to allow it to work until the new mount arrives. Tom said they were working on the mold to improve the strength of the mount.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

The replacement mount adapter arrived (actually 2 of them!) and was able to mount it on my bike. My bars are ever-so-slightly thicker than I think they are supposed to be as I had to leave a fairly large gap on the bolt side to not bend/deform/break the mount. Put the light on and did some wheelie practice to see if it would stay in place. Since I'm not good at wheelies, there was lots of slamming down of the front wheel and the light didn't move. 
Now I have to wait for our trails to dry a bit before going out and giving it another test.


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

Wifey poo got me the Hangover and Trail Evo for Christmas. Rode tonight in the snow for the first time and had a blast. Couple thoughts...

As mentioned above the mount could be more sturdy. I was nervous cranking it down tight. But I got it snug and it didn’t budge the whole ride. You really want to get it pointed correctly before you ride because it won’t move once you start. Then it’s really nice that you just leave the mount connected to the bars and take the light off so you don’t have to do the adjustment every time.

I used the GoPro mount that comes from Smith on my Smith Forefront 2 helmet. In the kitchen I was concerned that the mount was too far back and the light would be pointed too high. In reality once I got on the bike I realized that you really have to tip the light much higher than you’d think because the helmet tips forward on your head and more importantly your head/chin is tipped down when you ride. The mount was perfect. Its a standard GoPro mount so if you don’t crank the thumb screw down too tight you can make adjustments on the fly. I found I really liked it tipped up to help me see down the trail. The Evo did fine by itself lighting up the trail in front of the bike.
Could easily ride with just the Evo but the Hangover really makes it easy to look around corners and stuff.


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

Has anyone charged this on a qualcomm QC 3.0 charger and compared it to a a PD charger? My lights seem to show the fast charge display, but take quite awhile to charge. I want to make sure people with QC 3.0 wall adaptors are indeed getting the stated charge times before I go fork out for a dual port qc 3.0 charger.

Happy riding, and happy near year!


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## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

I’m charging mine with a QC3.0 and it still takes a while to get that last 15%. I can compare to a regular USB port on my charger, but because of the firmware in the light I’m guessing that last 15% trickle charge is going to take the same amount of time or close to it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

Abunchahicks said:


> I'm charging mine with a QC3.0 and it still takes a while to get that last 15%. I can compare to a regular USB port on my charger, but because of the firmware in the light I'm guessing that last 15% trickle charge is going to take the same amount of time or close to it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im finding my hangover headlamp is probably taking 2-3 hours to charge and the trail Evo is ~ 4 hours. Only reason it would matter is if I forget to charge it I think it would be great if I could do so in a hurry. Do you reckon your qc charge times seem similar? I'm sure a regular USB charge will take ages!


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Pretty much with all batteries, there is going to be a point where they have to switch from high amperage constant current input to a slower constant voltage because of issues with heat. I've been involved with R/C airplanes since we moved from NiMH/NiCd to Lipolly and other lithium-based batteries. The big issue has always been the heat. Either going in or coming out the energy movement produces heat and dealing with the heat has always been a challenge. Most chargers go with a constant current at the start and then switch over to a much lower current but output at the desired finish voltage or constant voltage. 
From what I'm seeing with these lights, you get the high input constant current for most of the charge and thus you can get a bit more than 80% of a full charge in pretty quick order, but that last 20% is going to trickle into the battery, no matter what type of charger or power supply you have.


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## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

Thedanimal said:


> Im finding my hangover headlamp is probably taking 2-3 hours to charge and the trail Evo is ~ 4 hours. Only reason it would matter is if I forget to charge it I think it would be great if I could do so in a hurry. Do you reckon your qc charge times seem similar? I'm sure a regular USB charge will take ages!


I'd say my hangover charges faster than 2 hrs from almost dead, but my Evo has only been charged from about half full and takes around 4 hours.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

Abunchahicks said:


> I'd say my hangover charges faster than 2 hrs from almost dead, but my Evo has only been charged from about half full and takes around 4 hours.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for that, it sounds like the QC 3.0 architecture isn't gonna speed things up dramatically for me then and I may as well just stick with what I have!


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

I thought Matt said somewhere that the QC charge usage and increase in speed is from primarily dead to 50% or something like that. I could be imagining things.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Ya'll pretty much got it right. 0-80% is done via fast charge but the inherent properties of lithium ion batteries means that last little bit is always trickle charge. Anything over QC3.0 is pretty much wasted since since PD is completely different than QC3.0. We are of course looking into how we can implement PD in the future since that will allow the larger 2-cell 21700 packs to charge that much quicker. But while QC is more expensive component wise over micro USB, PD is way more expensive.


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

Outbound said:


> Ya'll pretty much got it right. 0-80% is done via fast charge but the inherent properties of lithium ion batteries means that last little bit is always trickle charge. Anything over QC3.0 is pretty much wasted since since PD is completely different than QC3.0. We are of course looking into how we can implement PD in the future since that will allow the larger 2-cell 21700 packs to charge that much quicker. But while QC is more expensive component wise over micro USB, PD is way more expensive.


So, would a pd charger end up charging slower because than a QC 3.0 charger because it isn't sending a signal to the light allowing the same current to be recieved? I guess I'm just wondering if pd is wasted or actually slower... I'm not electrician but I've tried to watch a few videos and wrap my head around it, and my understanding is that if I'm currently using a pd charger, I might see a quicker charge by switching to a QC 3.0 charger. Thanks in advance!

The 0-80 % stuff I'm familiar with and that part makes sense!


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

Did some real world riding finally and shot some pictures. These were made with a Samsung NX300 MILC camera in manual mode, so there are no changes between exposures. The lens is a wide angle one (12-24), without OIS. I have to mention that since our eyes adapt to the available light, the difference between the apparent brightness of the different levels are much less pronounced than the pictures suggest.



















































The first three were shot at an airfield, so there is nothing around for about a mile. So far I am absolutely pleased with the lights, they work together perfectly. While the Evo has slightly less throw than my Lumina 1800, the beam pattern and the tint is much better, and the Hangover is very useful in filling in the blank spots when the handlebars are not pointing to the right direction. The High is good for about anything here, and the Medium is totally usable for known trails. The Low is only good for climbing, when you really want to conserve your batteries, otherwise it is too low for my taste. As for running time, my ride starts at the bottom of the mountains, so I used medium on both lights for the first 30 minutes (the climbing can get quite technical when it is wet), then mostly High for the Evo and Adaptive for the Hangover, but the latter was on High too for the descents. This way both were good for the two hour ride, with one "bar" left in the battery, and the Evo was able to get me home on Nighttime pulse without any blinking from the status LEDs. All this in 2 degrees Celsius - about 36 degrees Fahrenheit.

Just for fun I checked what my old Anker 10000 mAh powerbank can do. Theoretically it puts out 2,4 amperes at 5 volts max. The Hangover can go for 4:20 hours on High with this, then a few minutes in Low. The Evo does 2:40 hours on High, then it stays on Low for 1:30 hours. So pretty obvious that the QC 3.0 is missing for the Evo. No surprise here, considering the amperage it pulls when in High .

Would I change anything? Well, the Hangover's battery life is much shorter than the Evo's, so it requires some attention and switching between the modes to balance. The external battery of course solves this, however a remote control (I know, I know ) would really make this more easy.


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## tacoma22 (Feb 27, 2020)

Wombath said:


> Did some real world riding finally and shot some pictures. These were made with a Samsung NX300 MILC camera in manual mode, so there are no changes between exposures. The lens is a wide angle one (12-24), without OIS. I have to mention that since our eyes adapt to the available light, the difference between the apparent brightness of the different levels are much less pronounced than the pictures suggest.
> 
> View attachment 1909895
> View attachment 1909896
> ...


That is awesome! So with a QC 3.0 capable battery pack you could make the Evo last longer as well? I am going on a ride tonight and have a new QC 3.0 pack I'm going to test with the Evo. And just so I am clear..I can use an older battery pack (Non 3.0) with the hangover to achieve longer run times?


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

tacoma22 said:


> That is awesome! So with a QC 3.0 capable battery pack you could make the Evo last longer as well? I am going on a ride tonight and have a new QC 3.0 pack I'm going to test with the Evo. And just so I am clear..I can use an older battery pack (Non 3.0) with the hangover to achieve longer run times?


An external QC3.0 won't help the EVO in high. It is best for any of the other modes but high consumes too much power and the QC can't deliver fast enough.


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## tacoma22 (Feb 27, 2020)

Ride tonight was 1.5 hours. I used adaptive most of the night. Medium for one climb and high for one technical descent. I really like adaptive and will probably use that the most. 

I used a QC 3.0 battery pack to pass through charge and it worked great. The Evo stayed at 4 bars until the very end getting back to the car. So you could do some seriously long rides on adaptive with a battery pack. And if you turned it off on easy connector climbs and just let it charge that would help even more. 

Now I need something better for my helmet. My NR 850 on high was basically useless. Lol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tacoma22 said:


> Now I need something better for my helmet. My NR 850 on high was basically useless. Lol.


Agreed! Before I hurt my shoulder I got a few rides with the EVO paired with either a Hangover or my 3-4x as powerful Monteer 3500. The Hangover definitely helped but was totally outclassed by the Monteer as a helmet combo for the EVO (IMO). EVO's low and med. modes are also far mote usable with a more powerful helmet light.
Mole


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## tacoma22 (Feb 27, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Agreed! Before I hurt my shoulder I got a few rides with the EVO paired with either a Hangover or my 3-4x as powerful Monteer 3500. The Hangover definitely helped but was totally outclassed by the Monteer as a helmet combo for the EVO (IMO). EVO's low and med. modes are also far mote usable with a more powerful helmet light.
> Mole


I was thinking about a hangover and using an external pack so I could just keep it on high or medium. Is it worth it with the evo or should I look for something else? Seems nice that it can be used with or without extra battery pack.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> 0-80% is done via fast charge but the inherent properties of lithium ion batteries means that last little bit is always trickle charge.


Yupp, same why car makers only rate the fast charge times for up to 80% capacity. And don't forget in winter times: if your light has been for 1-2h in the cold, let it warm up an hour or two before you start charging. Li-ion batteries do not like it to be charged when cold, it will damage the cells, especially if it is a high current charge. Room temp is ideal.

Edited, deleted some quotes due to an edit of a quoted post.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tacoma22 said:


> I was thinking about a hangover and using an external pack so I could just keep it on high or medium. Is it worth it with the evo or should I look for something else? Seems nice that it can be used with or without extra battery pack.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hangover is a nice self-contained helmet light but there are quite a few lights with separate batteries that easily out perform it. It will out throw the EVO and your 850 Lumina but still is less powerful lumen wise so will be a narrower more focused beam than your current light. Better mounting options and being able to extend its range using an external power source are great but I have my doubts you'd be a whole lot happier with the Hangovers overall performance as a helmet combo for the EVO compared to your Lumina. 
Mole


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

tacoma22 said:


> I was thinking about a hangover and using an external pack so I could just keep it on high or medium. Is it worth it with the evo or should I look for something else? Seems nice that it can be used with or without extra battery pack.


If you want to use the Hangover with an external battery pack and drop it in your jersey back pockets you'll need a slightly longer cord. At least I did but I'm 6'2".

I run the Evo on adaptive and the Hangover on medium and know I'll good for just over 2 1/2 hours. Anything longer and I'll drop my Anker 10k in the top tube bag and run the Evo on medium. I don't know yet exactly how long this will last yet. If it's an all night type ride I'll have an external battery for the Hangover as well but honestly that isn't as crucial because the Evo does so well on its own.


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## tacoma22 (Feb 27, 2020)

JDHutch said:


> If you want to use the Hangover with an external battery pack and drop it in your jersey back pockets you'll need a slightly longer cord. At least I did but I'm 6'2".
> 
> I run the Evo on adaptive and the Hangover on medium and know I'll good for just over 2 1/2 hours. Anything longer and I'll drop my Anker 10k in the top tube bag and run the Evo on medium. I don't know yet exactly how long this will last yet. If it's an all night type ride I'll have an external battery for the Hangover as well but honestly that isn't as crucial because the Evo does so well on its own.


Is the hangover cable the same length as the Evo? If you see my post above I ran a newer QC external pack with the Evo. All night on adaptive and some high. Had full 4 bars for nearly 1.5 hours.


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

tacoma22 said:


> Is the hangover cable the same length as the Evo? If you see my post above I ran a newer QC external pack with the Evo. All night on adaptive and some high. Had full 4 bars for nearly 1.5 hours.


They are the same cords. I am just 5'7", but I still use a small extension cord (about 2') with the Hangover to make it comfortable. Without it I can feel the standard cord stretching a bit when moving around the bike in technical terrain.


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

If anyone is interested, I did some measurements with the Evo+powerbank combo with an Anker Powercore 10000 QC 3.0. Here are my runtimes:


















My luxmeter is not calibrated, so these are relative values to the initial brightness. The tests were done indoors, at room temperature.

I have been using my Evo+Hangover a lot in the last few weeks (it is finally cold enough that all the mud have frozen completely). Still 99% satisfied with them. That remaining 1% could be some kind of remote for the Hangover, so I could see how the battery is doing and switch modes. Maybe through ANT+, like the Garmin Varia UT800. Just daydreaming


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

Isn’t the Evo on medium about 4 hours without external battery? How can it be just 6 hours with a 10k battery?


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

JDHutch said:


> Isn't the Evo on medium about 4 hours without external battery? How can it be just 6 hours with a 10k battery?


That's 471 minutes, so almost 8 hours.


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

That makes more sense. Thank you. Let us know if you run the same test with the Hangover.


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

I did . I am just not getting cosistent results because there seems to some interesting stuff going on with how my Hangover manages its charging strategy: Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ---

But when everything works as it should, I get 4:20 hours on high and 7:20 hours on medium. When on high it abruptly switches off, when on medium it keeps on going on low for about 40 minutes before switching off.


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

I can't really comment on the long term use of the EVO since I only have a few rides with it so far but here are some information on the run time below 0C. I'm running the EVO in medium because my rides are usually 2h+. My longest rides right now were 2h05. I could not test for any longuer since we are locked in from 8h00 PM to 5h00 AM right now. Every rides were started with a fully charged light.

Between -5C and -7C, it takes 1:13:0 (±15 sec.) to go from a charge status of 4/4 to 3/4.

Between -15C and -17C, it takes 1:02:45 (±15 sec.) to go from a charge status of 4/4 to 3/4.

I could not see any fading from the light after 2h and all my rides ended with a charge status of 3/4. The light was at room temp at the begining of the ride (21C) and running cold by the end of it. I hope we will get some -30C or below like we usually get at this time of the year to test it at lower temps. This will be interesting to see how the batteries are affected.


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

Evo plus Hangover this morning in the snow. It was glorious!


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

Wombath said:


> I did . I am just not getting cosistent results because there seems to some interesting stuff going on with how my Hangover manages its charging strategy: Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ---


I had a similar experience just FYI. I gave up on using the Hangover with a powerbank as it's just not a reliable option. I quickly found that I wanted a remote anyway, so I got a Gloworm X2, which is awesome. I contacted Outbound directly to share my experience with the Hangover + powerbank. They said they were going to purchase the same powerbank that I used to do some testing. I suggested that they just recommend some known working packs but I wonder, after seeing your results, if maybe it's a problem with the light itself and not the powerbank at all.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

I have had my EVO out on a few longer rides, and I have to say I am pretty impressed. I run a gloworm X2 on my helmet and it's a great combination. Most of my riding consists of a long slow grind up tight single track, followed by a fast decent in dense forest. The Evo is bright enough for climbing on low, especially with the X2 on low or medium. I switch them both to high for the decent. Managing the power this way results in very good run-times. I usually finish a 2 hour ride with 3 bars, and I still had 2 bars after a 4 hour ride. The light pattern is very uniform and I like the natural tint. It is certainly bright enough for a bar light, but I don't think I would want to run it without a helmet light. My riding partners have noticed how good the EVO is and are ordering their own!


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

I went for a ride with my EVO this morning. Temperature was 23ºF. After 1 hour on high my EVO showed only 1 bar of battery remaining. That’s not impressive. This is the second time I have had this happen this week. Seems like cold temps affect this thing pretty significantly.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

sptimmy43 said:


> I went for a ride with my EVO this morning. Temperature was 23ºF. After 1 hour on high my EVO showed only 1 bar of battery remaining. That's not impressive. This is the second time I have had this happen this week. Seems like cold temps affect this thing pretty significantly.


Hmmmm. Might have a bad one. I get the full 2+ hours on high on multiple rides around the same temps. I haven't found any difference in mind from when it's 20's or 40's. Haven't tried it in the teens yet. Happy for that.


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

sptimmy43 said:


> I went for a ride with my EVO this morning. Temperature was 23ºF. After 1 hour on high my EVO showed only 1 bar of battery remaining. That's not impressive. This is the second time I have had this happen this week. Seems like cold temps affect this thing pretty significantly.


Long time lurker here.. actually just registered to help with this. Pretty much all lights and especially batteries are affected by cold to some degree, I'm in interior Alaska and we pretty much expect to lose between 20% and 50% of advertised run times on our lights depending on the temps and quality of the light and battery. What I have done is to tape the vents up on the Evo if to use it in the cold. 1hr 16minutes at -11*f and the Evo was down to 1/4 bars and it had not dropped into low yet. I haven't gotten a solid ride to see what happens at even colder temps with the Evo yet, just waiting for the opportunity to suffer in the name of science with my limited riding schedule.

I do know that the Hangover on medium will last 90 minutes on the dot at -33*f. Thankfully we were within sight of our cars on that ride when the lights went out.


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

Hey thanks for the reply! I am not sureprised to see some degradation in expected run time in cold temps. I would definitely expect it with the temps you experience but I was hoping 23 was "warm" enough to not lose too much run time.


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## majorjake (Sep 5, 2017)

The other day, at out local ski hill, I saw a guy skiing with a helmet mounted GoPro that had a hand warmer strapped to the battery side of it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

Last night we got some colder temp than in the previous month and so I was able to test the degradation with temp between -24C and -25C. I'm also reposting my times from my previous post to get an idea of how temp reduce the usage time of the EVO.

Between -5C and -7C, it takes 1:13:0 (±15 sec.) to go from a charge status of 4/4 to 3/4.

Between -15C and -17C, it takes 1:02:45 (±15 sec.) to go from a charge status of 4/4 to 3/4. 

Between -24C and -25C, it takes 0:41:00 to go from a charge status of 4/4 to 3/4. It also takes another 1:00:00 for it to go from 3/4 to 2/4.

I was expecting to loose another 10 minutes to go to 3/4 at -25C compared to -15C and was really surprised to see it drop at the 41 minutes mark (20 minutes sooner thant -15C). I'm starting to think that, on medium, you would get the run time stated for the adaptive mode on the medium mode at -35C (around 2.5h). The degradation clearly isnt linear. On the plus side, the amount of light output stays the same even if it's colder. Maybe a little layer of insulation around the light would help the batteries from getting too cold and at the same time I don't think it would really affect the LEDs efficiencies. I will have to try that at some point.


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

Been contemplating making an insulated sleeve for both the Evo and Hangover, but they've been working well enough for my riding style. I usually use medium as winter fat biking is not terribly fast paced and medium is plenty bright enough and lasts long even in the cold.


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## chicodecali (Feb 19, 2016)

I just wanted to mention that I had an issue with the Evo Cable Manager snapping on me and Outbound got right back to me with a replacement. So refreshing to deal with a company that stands by their products and knows the importance of building good relationships with their customers!


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

chicodecali said:


> I just wanted to mention that I had an issue with the Evo Cable Manager snapping on me and Outbound got right back to me with a replacement. So refreshing to deal with a company that stands by their products and knows the importance of building good relationships with their customers!


Yeap customer service is top notch. UPS lost my trail evo and they sent me a replacement right away. Annoyingly UPS lost that package too but they got it back somehow 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

Got my 2 coldest night ride this week and here is the results added to my previous posts.

Between -5C and -7C, it takes 1:13:0 (±15 sec.) to go from a charge status of 4/4 to 3/4.

Between -15C and -17C, it takes 1:02:45 (±15 sec.) to go from a charge status of 4/4 to 3/4.

Between -24C and -25C, it takes 0:41:00 to go from a charge status of 4/4 to 3/4. It also takes another 1:00:00 for it to go from 3/4 to 2/4.

Between -22C and -27C, it takes 0:45:00 to go from a charge status of 4/4 to 3/4. It also takes another 0:47:00 for it to go from 3/4 to 2/4.

Between -27C and -29C, it takes 0:32:00 to go from a charge status of 4/4 to 3/4. It also takes another 0:39:00 for it to go from 3/4 to 2/4 and another 0:35:00 to go from 2/4 to 1/4.

So at an average of -28C you can round everything to about 35 minutes per 1/4 of battery usage on the medium setting for a total of 2h20 of light time. I will clearly need to check for a way to keep it warmer in these conditions and colder to be sure I make it home OR use the low setting instead.


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

I am seeing slightly longer run times on medium for the same time frame at those temperatures. Difference is that I have my vents taped up on the Evo. While I have not done testing quite as detailed as you have, at -8f/-22c on a ride earlier this week, I had just over an hour on medium when it went to 3/4 indicators.


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

firebanex said:


> I am seeing slightly longer run times on medium for the same time frame at those temperatures. Difference is that I have my vents taped up on the Evo. While I have not done testing quite as detailed as you have, at -8f/-22c on a ride earlier this week, I had just over an hour on medium when it went to 3/4 indicators.


Nice to know! I will try the taped front vents for my next ride. The next 3 nights will be aroun -27C again so this will be a good test. Thanks!


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Outbound said:


> We are working on a dc5521 to usb converter that is much slimmer than the one magicshine used to sell so that users of the old external battery packs, and anyone with a dc5521 pack can use those to supplement evo or hangover power.


I noticed this Gemini pack on ActionLED(sold out) but avail on Amazon: Gemini 4-Cell Battery 60Wh 8.4V USB-C

*USC-C charging*, hard case and can act as a USB-C power pack, not cheap though.

Also a 2 Cell version for helmet : Gemini 2-Cell Battery 8.4V USB-C

21700 Batteries, slightly heavier but more run time.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

@Outbound (and anybody else who may/may not have noticed this behavior), any reason that my car's USB port would have difficulty charging an EVO? It does start charging (slowly, as expected), but only after 5-10 minutes of being plugged in. It'll typically stop ~75%, too.

It behaves normally with a wall wart.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

@wschruba, sorry about not noticing your comment. Honestly I am not too sure, but I'll forward it onto Tom who can probably explain it better than I can. USB negotiation is apparently quite a complex thing and not as simple as hooking up power and letting it rip. So potentially some "disagreements" being made after a certain point, but I am nowhere near an expert on that, that's why I hire those who are. 

--------------------------------

Posted this in the Hangover thread, but I'll update this too here:



> Hey guys, popping in for a quick update on how we are doing.
> 
> We finally have like.... a lot of lights. We've hired a new full-time employee to build out lights and he's been working for us now for almost 5 months. Has now become an expert. So if you get a new light recently it's probably been built by Andy. He's kicking ass and really letting myself focus on the bigger picture items such as new product development, improving our inventory systems and looking into a new space to move into.
> 
> ...


Regarding some Evo specific stuff:
- We've been amazed at the reliability of Evo. We have sold 2000+ of them, and have literally only had two true failures. Already made steps to try and make sure that doesn't happen again. Mostly water intrusion so we've made some tiny adjustments to the mold.
- Have secured a ton of LED chips and working on getting a lot of batteries secured. The explosion of ebikes and electric cars has really caused the price of batteries to start skyrocketing and supply to dwindle down. So we are trying to plan out farther in advance to keep the flow going.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Evo is a beast, I heard there is a new mount for the evo?

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

To be upfront, I didn't read through 12 pages of threads, so I'll ask here.

How secure is the mounting pivot? Is it keyed into place at all or does it just rely on friction to keep its position? The light is leveraged out away from the pivot and seems like it would get knocked downwards with shocks. Gotta ask since I've had an exactly 0% success rate with that type of mount from other manufacturers.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

In my experience, the pivot is pretty secure. Torqued appropriately I haven't had it move. I did have the entire clamp rotate on the bar because I was erring on the side of caution on tightness for that, but after I gave it another half rotation it stayed put.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Rock solid, tightened appropriately. Doesn't move on washboards at speed.

I would still prefer a gopro style mount, but this is tolerable.


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## Bluenova (Jan 14, 2021)

How’s the new handlebar clamp coming along?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Bluenova said:


> How's the new handlebar clamp coming along?


I got a shipping notification for the new "V2 mount assembly" today.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

V2 mount came in the mail today. Doesn't look too much different from the first picture except what it's constructed out of. From the side of the clamp (second picture) though you can definitely see it's beefed up!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Bar clamp attachment and mount/lighthead interface clamp work sooooo much easier! V2 mount = BIG improvement.
Mole


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

Is it plastic/glass filled nylon verse the metal of the old ones?

I haven't had issues with the v1 mount, but I do wish it had a touch more positive contact to the light head.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

firebanex said:


> Is it plastic/glass filled nylon verse the metal of the old ones?
> 
> I haven't had issues with the v1 mount, but I do wish it had a touch more positive contact to the light head.


You'd have to ask Matt what the actual material used is but it's definitely some sort of plastic. My V1 mount broke at the hinge area of the bar clamp and while I never had any performance issues with the latch or mount/bar interface the new latch feels like a more positive/secure connection.
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Lots of minor improvements beyond just the material change, which is indeed PA GF30 Nylon. Extremely durable, strong, and most importantly dimensionally stable. One of those things with 20/20 hindsight we should have gone for it in the first place.

This took a long time to get completed because we worked closely with our inject molder to really dial in the tolerances on the parts to get smoother engagement of the latch, less slop, lots of design tweaks for the angle adjust so that hardly need any torque to tighten and hold it in place. Wouldn't say we rushed the initial mounts, but the issue of inconsteitent manufacturing, die casting and powdercoat exacerbated the issue.

Tom then spent a lot of time dialing in the exact thickness for the included shim and such so that can tighten down the bar clamp without damaging anything, yet hold it extremely snug. Since we are producing almost 20,000 of these in the coming months we took the extra couple of months going back and forth adjusting surfaces on the order of 0.2mm inwards, opening a hole 0.1mm, etc so that it is almost as perfectly smooth operation as it can be.

We could have rushed out an updated mount within a few months by just thickening up the rear hinge. But we decided to really focus on getting it almost perfect by correcting a lot of the early issues that popped up with mass production by overhauling stuff, switching materials, and getting it just right.

Really excited now to get this hurdle behind us. Everyone seems to love the mounting system, and proving to be extremely robust for all kinds of bikes. So this updated mount makes it even better. All of our new lights will have the same "nub" so that we can use the same mount for multiple types of lights. 

Next up is the GoPro adapter version. We want there to be the option for it with bike computer mounts before we launch our new Road light. We are making a custom shoe so that the mount can installed under a computer mount and still retain the quick release functions.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Outbound said:


> Lots of minor improvements beyond just the material change, which is indeed PA GF30 Nylon. Extremely durable, strong, and most importantly dimensionally stable. One of those things with 20/20 hindsight we should have gone for it in the first place.
> 
> This took a long time to dial in because we worked closely with our inject molder to really dial in the tolerances on the parts to get smoother engagement of the latch, less slop, lots of design tweaks for the angle adjust so that hardly need any torque to tighten and hold it in place, etc.
> 
> ...


How do we go about to avail this new mount?

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Daxdagr8t said:


> How do we go about to avail this new mount?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Shoot us an email. [email protected]

Anyone who had a broken mount in the past should see a v2 arriving in the Mail by the end of July. We got a first run of 500 shipped to us, with half going to those that experienced multiple breaks or that had contacted us recently. The other half going to our demo stuff and new light builds. Our remaining run of 10,000 won't show till mid July annoyingly.

so those that experienced a break early on, but either have not broken again, or haven't used the light since it's summer now, will see the mount arrive soonish.

If you read this forum and just want the new updated mount for your Evo even if it hasn't broken just email us and we'll get you taken care of, though may not be able to take care it until the end of July just FYI.


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## smittylube (Mar 21, 2009)

my mini review. 
I received mine a couple weeks ago. I guess I have the thinner original bar clamp/ 31mm bars.
When it arrived originally it was difficult to install the lamp into the bar bracket holder as in the lever didn’t want to rotate enough to work. I filed the angled piece slightly and loosened the pivot screw holding the lever like 1/3 or 1/2 turn. I rode with the light and had read some comments of it not holding. Mine held perfectly from the get go. After a dozen or so times installing I was able to tighten the lever screw and it pops in and out easily as described.

As far as riding this light is amazing. Search no further. Super bright and 2 flood lights describes it pretty well. Wide light path. Self contained and plenty enough power for as far as I would / could ride at night.

Additionally I bought the pair and it included the helmet lamp as well.
my Bell lid included a go pro mount And I mounted it using this mount. The light mounts on the rear of the assembly and this caused my helmet to continually tip forward . I ended up mounting the included self adhesive mount further back and now my helmet balances better.
The brightness of the evo is so bright it almost overpowered the helmet lamp, rendering what seems to be an almost ineffective helmet lamp. However I found with this combination I can almost see better than daytime it is that effective.
I’ve done a ton of riding in the dark many many early morning rides before work. I’ve never had this much usable light before.
Self contained and simple to use. My only complaint would be how do I tell how much is left in the battery? I might have missed that in the instructions.

thanks Outbound for a killer product


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## Nocturnalnature71 (May 29, 2021)

These lights are definitely legit.

I went a little different route and bought two Hangover models.

One is helmet mounted, and I use a Garmin 1/4 turn to Gopro for the bars to mount the other one.

Used them for first time on technical trails last night and they performed flawlessly.

It's rare that I get worked up about something like a bike light, but these things truly are exceptional.


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## monkeypod21 (Oct 2, 2007)

Any recommendations for a power bank for the Trail Evo?


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

monkeypod21 said:


> Any recommendations for a power bank for the Trail Evo?


Anker PD, I have 10000mah and charged my evo and hangover simultaneosly no problem.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Nocturnalnature71 said:


> These lights are definitely legit.
> 
> I went a little different route and bought two Hangover models.
> 
> ...


Can you post some pics of the 1/4 turn setup? I would like a 1/4 turn top mount setup but can't seem to find one. Everything appears to be bottom mount below a computer which I don't have or want.


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## Nocturnalnature71 (May 29, 2021)

Ii


cue003 said:


> Can you post some pics of the 1/4 turn setup? I would like a 1/4 turn top mount setup but can't seem to find one. Everything appears to be bottom mount below a computer which I don't have or want.


I'm currently out of town, but I'll get you a photo when I get back from vacation.

In the meantime, here is what you seek









Amazon.com : KOM Cycling Top Mount Compatible with GoPro Adapters that quarter turn into Compatible Computer Mounts such as the Garmin Edge Bike Mounts or Wahoo Bike Mounts - Great for mounting Cameras and Lights! : Sports & Outdoors


Amazon.com : KOM Cycling Top Mount Compatible with GoPro Adapters that quarter turn into Compatible Computer Mounts such as the Garmin Edge Bike Mounts or Wahoo Bike Mounts - Great for mounting Cameras and Lights! : Sports & Outdoors



www.amazon.com





Pair this adapter with the bar mounted Garmin mount of your choice.
I use the Garmin mountain bike specific mount and it works like a champ. No shifting around and rock solid even on chunky downhill runs.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Nocturnalnature71 said:


> Ii
> 
> I'm currently out of town, but I'll get you a photo when I get back from vacation.
> 
> ...


Awesome!! Thanks for the info and the link. Enjoy your vacation.


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## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

Probably already discussed, but just in case...

I just picked up the evo/hangover combo locally (very glad to see a local shop, grey matter, stocking them in house!) and suffice it to say that I won't be going back to my lumina 1100/1800 any decade soon. Got about 15 miles of night riding in with them tonight and couldn't be happier.

That said, a big part of the draw for me was the USB charging (the major impetus for buying them today was because I had a night ride planned tonight and couldn't find the stupid DC-barrel charger for the 1800.) Before I even left the parking lot at the bike shop I was unboxing and plugging them in since I only had a few hours til ride time. Using the supplied cables, of course everything works properly. But my first attempts at charging were with the various C cables I already have in my vehicle, and it seems that the opening is kinda on the small side (presumably makes for easier waterproofing with the intended cable ends.) The two cables I tried that I normally use to charge everything else in my vehicle just wouldn't go in. 

I'm sure I could whittle them down a bit to make them fit just fine (nothing I haven't done in the past, and will probably do this time) but I'd much rather be able to use my existing cables the majority of the time and not be at all worried that in a pinch, I'm without one/both of the supplied cables and can't charge the lights. (I'd just swap the provided cables for the ones in my vehicle, but those are all specific/longer lengths to neatly run power to various places in my vehicle, so no dice there.)

That said, I'm the type to be nitpicky as hell, and that's the ONLY issue, major or mild, that I could find. Not sure if it's even feasible to upsize the standard waterproof cable plug size and light body to accommodate? Most of my cables are from Anker which is a pretty popular aftermarket brand. The rest tend to be stuff that Samsung includes with their phones. 

Again, definite nitpick, and it isn't gonna stop me from using the hell outta these lights!


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Thoreau said:


> Probably already discussed, but just in case...
> 
> I just picked up the evo/hangover combo locally (very glad to see a local shop, grey matter, stocking them in house!) and suffice it to say that I won't be going back to my lumina 1100/1800 any decade soon. Got about 15 miles of night riding in with them tonight and couldn't be happier.
> 
> ...


Yeah the input on the trail evo is kind of annoying but I keep all of my lights and cords in a separate small bag/pouch so I won't lose the supplied cord.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

Daxdagr8t said:


> Yeah the input on the trail evo is kind of annoying but I keep all of my lights and cords in a separate small bag/pouch so I won't lose the supplied cord.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


My vehicle becomes a consumer electronics display case on the way to the trail. Fake OCD makes me angry if I start a ride with anything not charged up so things are wired to give me lotsa charging ports...

usb c devices:
personal phone
work phone
gopro
gopro remote
gopro multi battery charger

annoying usb micro devices:
garmin 530
inreach mini
2x AXS chargers

super annoying custom stuff with their own charging leads/proprietary:
trekz headphones
wahoo hrm

i dont always need to top off axs batteries, or even bring the gopro bits, but most of the other stuff only gets charged on the drive home from a ride, and on the drive to a ride. the more things i can move out of micro usb and proprietary, the easier life gets =)

ill find out tonight if im able to whittle the existing usb c plugs to safely fit the Evo.

id guess most people just set up charging in the garage or near where they store their bike which is probably smarter, but i have a habit of forgetting stuff that way. usually results in buying a new copy/version of that item on the drive to the trailhead =)


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

The input on Evo was one of those things we never even thought of until someone complained about it almost 6 months after we started selling it. Originally was designed around the USB-C cord we designed for Hangover a year prior, that was planned ahead to be able to seal the light while plugged in for future lamps. Never even considered the thought of off-the-shelf USB-C cords working because honestly... the ones I had laying around me worked, ha. The older GoPro cables actually work fine. Then GoPro introduced some thicker body ones in a newer model and those were justttttt a hair too big for the Evo opening. 

So now we have this dilemma. Do we modify the Evo tooling to open up this hole ever so slightly so someones unknown USB-C cable can be used to work. Which then means we also need to modify the USB door, and then have to modify our custom USB-C cable to also fit that hole. Which then renders anyone else's old Evo useless to use with an updated USB-C cord if they bought a new one as a spare. So now we have to carry two types of USB-C cables that you cannot tell the difference on because it's literally a 1mm difference..... We have 15,000 of these USB-C cables now so will take a while to burn through that.... or.... just have to live with the minor inconvenience that a handful of customers have found to be an annoyance. 

Have to keep in mind that we developed this cable not to be some proprietary plug to force people to buy them from us, but to have that pass-through-charging work while in use, and keeping the light entirely sealed, a feature that hundreds of customers have mentioned to us that they love.

We'll figure out some solution, but honestly it's not super high on the priority list.


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

The OL usb-c cord is pretty awesome with the 90* turn. I use one of my extra ones as a phone cord in my RV, can have the phone sitting in a small pocket on the dash with maps or music going. Works out fantastic. Considering I've ended up with about 6 of these cords with all of the OL lights I have, no issue with never having the wrong charge cord around for me. 

It's almost time for night riding season. So excited to get the Trail Evo back out and get it in some dirt instead of just the snow it saw last season.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

I don't think this would come as a surprise to anyone who's had the need to work with Outbound about a purchase, but:

About a week ago, they sent out emails sending revised handlebar mounts for free for anyone who bought in for the original run of lights with aluminum mounts; the new mounts fit/hold great, but that's not what this is about.

A literal day after getting that email, I had an incident that caused the bike to stop dead. Well, the light decided to keep going--it ejected from the V1 mount, so I picked it up, dusted it off, only to find out that the light was no longer secure in the mount. No problem, since a replacement was on it's way.

The lens of the light had some incidental damage from hitting something on the ground, so I inquired about getting a replacement lens. Long story short: since replacing the lens would mean completely disassembling the light, they sent me a whole new unit, with a shipping label in the box, so I didn't even miss any ride time.

Kudos for the service.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

wschruba said:


> I don't think this would come as a surprise to anyone who's had the need to work with Outbound about a purchase, but:
> 
> About a week ago, they sent out emails sending revised handlebar mounts for free for anyone who bought in for the original run of lights with aluminum mounts; the new mounts fit/hold great, but that's not what this is about.
> 
> ...


Very welcome! Always happy to do this kind of stuff because it's honestly so rare. So it's extremely easy for us to just get the unit back, fix it, and then put it into our demo fleet, which we always need more lights for since nothing I hate more than having new inventory be used for demos.


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

Let’s say I’m riding through the night and need 10-12 hours of light. I’ll set my EVO on medium and connect it to my Anker 10k at beginning of ride and I should be safe to get 7 hours. Can I then connect it to a fresh fully charged Anker and get another 7 hours? Do I need to do this before it drops into low mode? 

Same questions apply for the Hangover, although I view this as a luxury and not crucial because if it dies I can run with just the EVO. But my plan is the same, start it in medium connected to an Anker 10k in my jersey pocket (or hydration pack). Any idea how long I can get with this?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Yep, because at that point it should pretty much be fully topped off since the medium mode doesn't drain faster than the external pack can charge it. 

If it drops into low mode then it has to charge to get above the threshold to avoid auto-dropping into the 20 minute "get home mode" aka low.


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

Outbound said:


> Yep, because at that point it should pretty much be fully topped off since the medium mode doesn't drain faster than the external pack can charge it.
> 
> If it drops into low mode then it has to charge to get above the threshold to avoid auto-dropping into the 20 minute "get home mode" aka low.


So that didn't work for me. I just completed a 24 hour race and here were my results:

Trail Evo on medium connected to an Anker 10k got me 7 hours as anticipated. At 7 hours, before the light went into low mode, I switched to a fresh Anker 10k and got a little less than 3 more hours before going into low mode and then completely shutting off. Because having lights meant the difference between finishing and not finishing I had decided to save my Hangover light on my helmet until I needed it. Since it was only an hour until sunup at this point I had more than enough to get to the finish. 

I need to do more experimenting with the Trail Evo and external battery packs....but I have to say one huge advantage of this setup is that the Trail Evo on medium was more than enough light in complete darkness in the middle of the forest, and the Hangover on medium was just enough by itself. I had connected the Hangover to a 5k battery pack and used a short USB to USB cord so the pack would reach my jersey pocket, but didn't need the extra runtime in this instance. 

Overall very pleased with these lights and now am more confident heading out on these adventures knowing I have enough light to get through the entire night.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

JDHutch said:


> So that didn't work for me. I just completed a 24 hour race and here were my results:
> 
> Trail Evo on medium connected to an Anker 10k got me 7 hours as anticipated. At 7 hours, before the light went into low mode, I switched to a fresh Anker 10k and got a little less than 3 more hours before going into low mode and then completely shutting off. Because having lights meant the difference between finishing and not finishing I had decided to save my Hangover light on my helmet until I needed it. Since it was only an hour until sunup at this point I had more than enough to get to the finish.
> 
> ...


Hmm so I probably need to add an additional disclaimer it seems. Need to make sure the battery packs are also Quick Charge capable (aka QC3.0) in order to not outrun the drain of actually running the lights. I did a quick search of that Anker 10k and saw on the product listing: "High-Speed Charging: Anker’s exclusive PowerIQ and VoltageBoost combine to deliver the fastest possible charge for any device. *Qualcomm Quick Charge not supported*. "

Sorry about that, and hopefully didn't ruin the entire race!


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Just some feedback. The v2 mounts are indeed much better than the v1 mounts I have. A huge improvement, kudos.


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

Outbound said:


> Hmm so I probably need to add an additional disclaimer it seems. Need to make sure the battery packs are also Quick Charge capable (aka QC3.0) in order to not outrun the drain of actually running the lights. I did a quick search of that Anker 10k and saw on the product listing: "High-Speed Charging: Anker’s exclusive PowerIQ and VoltageBoost combine to deliver the fastest possible charge for any device. *Qualcomm Quick Charge not supported*. "
> 
> Sorry about that, and hopefully didn't ruin the entire race!


Did not ruin the race, I had plenty of light the entire night! Very happy with results, just trying to figure out what went wrong with the second pack.

The first Anker is brand new...the second one is a year old so they are not exactly the same. If you're saying Anker doesn't support QC do you have recommendations of what products will work better?

EDIT - Its interesting you can find Anker products on Amazon that support QC, most of them have "Speed" in the description, but you can't find them on the Anker website. Must not make them compatible anymore.

Thanks again!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

JDHutch said:


> So that didn't work for me. I just completed a 24 hour race and here were my results:
> 
> Trail Evo on medium connected to an Anker 10k got me 7 hours as anticipated. At 7 hours, before the light went into low mode, I switched to a fresh Anker 10k and got a little less than 3 more hours before going into low mode and then completely shutting off.


To me this sounds exactly like how everything should work. If you got 7hrs. of runtime from the first powerbank + the EVO's internal battery subtracting the EVO's approx. 4hr. claimed med mode runtime from that would give you approx. 3hrs. which is what you got from the second powerebank. 
Mole


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> To me this sounds exactly like how everything should work. If you got 7hrs. of runtime from the first powerbank + the EVO's internal battery subtracting the EVO's approx. 4hr. claimed med mode runtime from that would give you approx. 3hrs. which is what you got from the second powerebank.
> Mole


Hmmm that does sound right I guess.


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## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

So, looking at winter soon in MN. I sheet have the trail Evo and Hangover. Love them. I know the cold will drain the batteries pretty quick. 
Is the Anker 10k the preferred external pack? 
Slim one or normal one?

Mainly fat biking, hopefully singletrack and about 1-3 hour rides.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

After checking out the beam spread and coverage from a couple of these that riding buddies recently bought, I was very impressed. This is what I have been looking for.

The fact that these could be run self contained OR with an additional battery sealed the deal for me. I just ordered one.

Not completely sold on the Hangover yet. It needs either a longer run time, or better reviews in terms of battery pack compatibility. Preferably both.


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

kapusta said:


> Not completely sold on the Hangover yet. It needs either a longer run time, or better reviews in terms of battery pack compatibility. Preferably both.


I carry two of them when riding if I think I'll be out longer than one will last. Buddy of mine just has one and uses a random battery pack to keep his topped off when riding. I'd say to wait a couple months.. Outbound has things in the works.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

firebanex said:


> I carry two of them when riding if I think I'll be out longer than one will last. Buddy of mine just has one and uses a random battery pack to keep his topped off when riding. I'd say to wait a couple months.. Outbound has things in the works.


Interesting you mention carrying two. I am currently using a Cygolite Metro for my helmet light. It is something I already had a couple of for my road and commuter bikes. And I do just like you said: keep an extra in my pack. Swapping them out take about 15 seconds. I think it is actaully less hassle than dealing with a cord and battery pack.

I was comparing the Metro to the Hangover (just standing around in the dark on a trail), and when used with a good bar light, I did not find the hangover a whole lot better in terms of the light it was throwing. . I think if used by themselves (or with a less effective bar light), the Hangover would be a lot better as it seems to use the light outside the spot better than the Metro does. And I like that it is a tad lighter and much lower profile. I even thought about the two Hangover thing, but the way my helmet go-pro mount is set up, the swap would be a bit more of a hassle than with the Metros.


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

Yup, Hate dealing with cords and things on my head so I just swap it. I've got a Bontrager helmet so not really using the gopro style mount and using the fancy magnetic clip thing they have. It does take some extra time for me to unscrew the light and swap it. I should pick up another one of the magnetic thingys, but currently the hassle is still worth it.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

kapusta said:


> Not completely sold on the Hangover yet. It needs either a longer run time, or better reviews in terms of battery pack compatibility. Preferably both.


For what it's worth I've had excellent luck using the Hangover with even cheap Ravpower Amazon powerbanks as remote batteries. I think a new uber-Hangover will be a worth while improvement but am guessing for any substantial improvement in runtime you'll still have to run a remove battery. I also almost never use the Hangover with my EVO as I prefer much more powerful helmet lights (Monteer 3500/Gloworm XS/XP3) for a EVO combo for the faster open desert trails I ride though those high powered throwers would probably be a bit much for tighter trails.
Mole


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

I have this one at home and will give it a try. 



https://www.netonnet.no/art/telefon-gps/mobiltilbehor/mobillader/powerbank/andersson-powerbank-20-000-pdqc-3-0/1004014.11546/?gclid=CjwKCAjw2P-KBhByEiwADBYWCr4qvOd7ydUIDxCsiOxnJfHnpD4xQYzrfUlJZtO9cKuncuUmpjl1_RoCSG0QAvD_BwE



It has 

20 000 mAh
3 USB-ports where 1 is USB-C
Quick Charge 3.0 and Power Delivery 3.0
LED-display

The price is about 47 USD


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## Dirtfiend (May 5, 2010)

firebanex said:


> I carry two of them when riding if I think I'll be out longer than one will last. Buddy of mine just has one and uses a random battery pack to keep his topped off when riding. I'd say to wait a couple months.. Outbound has things in the works.


Is a 2nd Hangover your backup light? I just rode with the Evo/Hangover combo for the first time the other night and really like it. However I do intend to buy a 3rd light to stick in my pack for a backup "just in case" light. I'm thinking I'll either buy another Hangover or get one of those Light & Motion commuter lights that have an integrated handlebar strap. Suggestions for a backup light from you and everyone are very welcome!


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

Yup, 2nd hangover is the back up/just in case light. My typical rides are in the winter for 2-3ish hours and I'm using the Evo and a Hangover. Depending on the outside temperature and my needs for the ride, I'm usually using the Hangover on medium and it gets somewhere around 2-2.5 hours of burn time. Since it is Alaskan winter I'm dealing with, I'd be an absolute idiot if I didn't have some sort of back up just in case something does go awry. Evo pretty solidy gets 3.5 hours in the cold on medium, so it hasn't been an issue yet.

I've got a L&M Urban 500 in the collection. It's a nice little flashlight, kinda narrow for riding bikes but would work in a pinch. Mine gets used mainly for taking the dog out at night now, occasionally a quick and easy loaner light. My personal issue with most other brands of lights is that they are not a consistent output for the entire burn time, Outbound Lighting is until the 20 minute get home now mode turns on.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Just took the Trail Evo for its first ride. Tight, twisty, rooty, rocky with a bit of fall leaf cover. Lots of short ups and down, not much wide open bombing.

I like it a lot, though it was a little different than I expected. While I had seen the beam pattern standing around on the trail while checking out a riding buddy's light, actually riding with it was a little different.

I love the beam spread. This is the first night ride I have done where I did not feel like I was riding down a tunnel. The wide and even spread is awesome, and does a fantastic job at close and medium range. This part I was expecting.

What was not as apparent from looking at it previously, is that it lacks the distance punch of other lights I have used. I guess that makes sense, as putting all that light in such a wide spread takes up a lot of the Lumens. Thus, I think this might not be the best bar light IF you will only be running a single bar light with no helmet spot. At least not if you are going very fast.

However, this approach works brilliantly if you are also using a spot on your helmet. More so than I would have thought. With a Cygolite Metro 850 on my head, the distance was taken care of perfectly, and it made me realize that with such good short and med range coverage from the Trail Evo, I could run the spot pointed higher up / father out and not have to move my head around as much. It was the first time I have not really had to think about where the spot was pointed. It was just always where it needed to be (in the distance). It was no longer needed to track around sharp curves, or look at stuff off to the side. Not only does the wide even beam pattern take care of much of what I used to need a spot for, it does it better. I much prefer the shadowed light from a bar than the washed out light from a helmet at short range.

With the Cygolite and the Trail Evo both on high, the relative light levels were a perfect match. For more open and fast riding, I’d want something more powerful on my helmet.

I like the slightly warmer color temperature of the Trail Evo.

The ride was not all that long, so I can't say much about the battery life.

One question:
What are these two black washers included in the box for?


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

The black washers are to replace the orange ones on the mount if you don't like the color (if I'm not mistaken).


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## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

Got first night ride on my Evo last night. By far the best light I have used. been running a Cygolite Trident for years and while that is still a good light was time for an upgrade, I did try one of the self contained Gloworms last year and mounting solutions didn't really work for me. 

Anyone have a recommended powerbank and spare USB cord for the Evo?


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## williamson36 (Mar 24, 2006)

HEMIjer said:


> Got first night ride on my Evo last night. By far the best light I have used. been running a Cygolite Trident for years and while that is still a good light was time for an upgrade, I did try one of the self contained Gloworms last year and mounting solutions didn't really work for me.
> 
> Anyone have a recommended powerbank and spare USB cord for the Evo?


I just picked up this for less than $20 on sale. Seems to be full QC3.0 18v compatible: https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pb172-portable-charger-20000mah

They also have a 15000 MAH model that weighs a bit less - also on sale.

My lights arrive today and the power bank arrives next week - I will report back on how it works.


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## sstefanov (Sep 18, 2005)

Did my first ride on the Trail Evo last week and I can confirm - amazing light. Beautiful light distribution, very handy with the built in battery. The handlebar mount is very nice.

After using it on this 2 hour ride, I actually thought that the handlebar mount can be improved - i.e. the vertical adjustment bolt could use a "handle" - i.e. be adjusted with no tools... Part of my ride is on the street to reach the trails, and the light must be pointed down when on the street, not to blind the on coming cars and pedestrians... even on low!

So I spent 15 minutes designing a new bolt with a "handle" and 3D printed it today. It is based on an M4 machine head screw - M4x20 (M4x25 should work too). Here is how it turned up:





























For all of you interested doing one themselves here is the link to Onshape for STL export or modification:
Onshape nut holder

Stefan


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## williamson36 (Mar 24, 2006)

sstefanov said:


> Did my first ride on the Trail Evo last week and I can confirm - amazing light. Beautiful light distribution, very handy with the built in battery. The handlebar mount is very nice.
> 
> After using it on this 2 hour ride, I actually thought that the handlebar mount can be improved - i.e. the vertical adjustment bolt could use a "handle" - i.e. be adjusted with no tools... Part of my ride is on the street to reach the trails, and the light must be pointed down when on the street, not to blind the on coming cars and pedestrians... even on low!
> 
> ...


I would like to add to this feedback! The Light is amazing - quality build, very bright and the beam pattern is perfect. However, the mount has 2 bolts, each is a different size. I am not sure what size the vertical bolt is, but is is not one of the standard hex wrenches that is on my multi-tool, thus I need to carry a separate hex wrench just for this bolt. It would be great if you could fix this  .


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

sstefanov said:


> Did my first ride on the Trail Evo last week and I can confirm - amazing light. Beautiful light distribution, very handy with the built in battery. The handlebar mount is very nice.
> 
> After using it on this 2 hour ride, I actually thought that the handlebar mount can be improved - i.e. the vertical adjustment bolt could use a "handle" - i.e. be adjusted with no tools... Part of my ride is on the street to reach the trails, and the light must be pointed down when on the street, not to blind the on coming cars and pedestrians... even on low!
> 
> ...


Very well done on the modification. I would be curious if it loosens up over a couple rides. I hope not. It will be a nice “fix” if @Outboubd would add it to their improvements list.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

cue003 said:


> Very well done on the modification. I would be curious if it loosens up over a couple rides. I hope not. It will be a nice “fix” if @Outboubd would add it to their improvements list.


Check back in about.... 2 weeks. We've had something like this in the works for a while, made a few tweaks, went on the backburner, but now is in production.


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

You can buy thumb screws from mcmaster-carr: McMaster-Carr


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Check back in about.... 2 weeks. We've had something like this in the works for a while, made a few tweaks, went on the backburner, but now is in production.


@Outbound .. 2 weeks are up….  are The new tweaks shipping on lights and if so can you share what they are?


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## mtnbikerva1 (Feb 4, 2008)

Outbound said:


> Check back in about.... 2 weeks. We've had something like this in the works for a while, made a few tweaks, went on the backburner, but now is in production.


How about the new addition/changes? Shipping with them yet?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Well we have 2000 coming via air shipments, and another 10,000 coming right behind it. As soon as we can roll it into production we will. Probably will throw it on the site as well for a couple bucks once we have our full allocation of parts.

Bad pics taken with our new facility in the background. More on that soon.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Well we have 2000 coming via air shipments, and another 10,000 coming right behind it. As soon as we can roll it into production we will. Probably will throw it on the site as well for a couple bucks once we have our full allocation of parts.
> 
> Bad pics taken with our new facility in the background. More on that soon.
> 
> ...


Now I have to hold off my purchase until these updated parts are part of the shipping orders. The wait is already killing me.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

cue003 said:


> Now I have to hold off my purchase until these updated parts are part of the shipping orders. The wait is already killing me.


I mean, not really. Just buy a thumb/wing screw from McMaster or Fastenal. Good hardware stores should have them, too (though metric hardware can be difficult to find in specialties in the USA).


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Any sales on these lights, ever?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

cue003 said:


> Now I have to hold off my purchase until these updated parts are part of the shipping orders. The wait is already killing me.


Part is coming but no guarantee the light will be in stock by the time it arrives so I think ordering now would be what I'd do in your situation. If you ask Matt will probably send you the thumbscrew when they come in (worth a try). Matt's a busy man though so don't hate him if you have to remind him.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> Any sales on these lights, ever?


Supposed to be something for Black Friday.
Mole


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## Notthatbryan (Aug 7, 2021)

MRMOLE said:


> Supposed to be something for Black Friday.
> Mole


There is probably a sale coming on black Friday because I got impatient and ordered the Evo downhill package on Monday.


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## williamson36 (Mar 24, 2006)

Outbound said:


> Well we have 2000 coming via air shipments, and another 10,000 coming right behind it. As soon as we can roll it into production we will. Probably will throw it on the site as well for a couple bucks once we have our full allocation of parts.
> 
> Bad pics taken with our new facility in the background. More on that soon.


Great job guys! I have had my lights out for ~10 rides now and I absolutely love them. Adaptive mode over a 2 hour ride if perfect, plenty of light and best of all - no wires 

I have timed runtimes and compared them to your advertised runtimes and they are spot-on, I have been running them when the temperature is 40-50.

The beam pattern is what makes these lites - the combination of the Hangover & Evo is great.

Thanks for making an awesome product - keep up the good work!


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Suns_PSD said:


> Any sales on these lights, ever?


this week. And only this week. Outbound wrote on their homepage in the contact section:


> However, if you are just looking for a discount code, the answer is: we don't have any. We typically only have *one* sale per year


that one sale is now in the "black week" or on black friday.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

biking_tg said:


> this week. And only this week. Outbound wrote on their homepage in the contact section:
> 
> that one sale is now in the "black week" or on black friday.


thanksyou for the heads up. Order placed for the Evo.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Finally have the new mounts in stock. I can pull a few thumbscrews off but right now don't have a pile of extra stock to sell off.









Quick Release Handlebar Mount


Have multiple bikes? Want to swap Trail Evo between them often? Here ya go. Fits 35mm and 31.8mm handlebars.




www.outboundlighting.com





Aside from the thumbscrew, more minor changes to make things more robust. Thickened up some wall thicknesses to prevent pull through when overtightening, changed a few minor tolerances to improve the pin interface and the latch sliding smoothness. As always we are constantly tweaking and improving every facet of our products everytime we do a production run.


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## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

Outbound said:


> Finally have the new mounts in stock. I can pull a few thumbscrews off but right now don't have a pile of extra stock to sell off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome, does this mean Black Friday Evo orders will be shipping soon, and will they come with the tool free mount?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Abunchahicks said:


> Awesome, does this mean Black Friday Evo orders will be shipping soon, and will they come with the tool free mount?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure if they will be shipping soon but there were a backlog of orders to fulfill before the Black Friday ones so I bet based on that we will get the updates to the mount and the thumb screw etc.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Yep, any orders that went out this week had the new mounts. We were mainly backlogged waiting on these cause we were straight up out of mounts for several weeks. Not just the thumbscrew.

As for order shipping we are now through all orders up to around Nov 20th and moving our way down the list. Building almost 200 lights a day when we get pcb boards in, along with boxing and shipping everything. Still have around 1000 orders left (along with 40-50 new orders a day) so we are churning as fast as we can, main limitation at this point is pcb boards arriving in time.


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## Notthatbryan (Aug 7, 2021)

I ordered the week before black Friday and just received my Evo downhill package today. 

They look great. Feel solid and the light output is amazing just playing in the backyard.

The only issue I have is that all of my USB PD chargers are USB C on both ends. The USB C port on the trail Evo is shaped in a way that none of the dozen or so USB C cables I have fit. 
That means I can only slow charge it with an older charging brick. Not a big deal, but a little annoying to have to buy a new charging brick. 

The hangover will accept a normal USB C cable. 

I'll test them out Sunday night.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Notthatbryan said:


> I ordered the week before black Friday and just received my Evo downhill package today.
> 
> They look great. Feel solid and the light output is amazing just playing in the backyard.
> 
> ...


maybe you can try ausb-a to usb-c adapter on the cable connected to your charger. But I seem to remember something about the power bank being QC3.0 and not PD.


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## Notthatbryan (Aug 7, 2021)

cue003 said:


> maybe you can try ausb-a to usb-c adapter on the cable connected to your charger. But I seem to remember something about the power bank being QC3.0 and not PD.


You are right. They call for QC 3.0, all of my current chargers are PD. I've got a new charger on the way.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Notthatbryan said:


> I ordered the week before black Friday and just received my Evo downhill package today.
> 
> They look great. Feel solid and the light output is amazing just playing in the backyard.
> 
> ...


We have some C-to-C cables coming soon.


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## Notthatbryan (Aug 7, 2021)

Outbound said:


> We have some C-to-C cables coming soon.


I'll take 2


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Well we are finally back in stock and ready to start shipping same day again starting next week. We've transitioned from our PCBA supplier in Phoenix helping build these lights to building them ourselves in house in our new building now that we've gotten moved in. Have some of the new machinery coming online by the end of the month to help start speeding up the process of assembling even more. 

We are exploring potentially making a change of the lower housing to the new thermally conductive plastics since it's performing so well on our Detour prototypes. Would mean a little lighter weight, no painting, etc but will need to do some more testing. We know it could handle the thermal loads, question is whether it can handle the impacts of drops, falling off a bike, being tossed in the back of a truck, or falling off a car at highway speeds, haha. Will be some fun testing ahead.  

In other news, when I was perusing Amazon to see if there were any new lights popping up, noticed that Amazons "best seller" light, the VASTFIRE something-something had blatantly stole one of our Evo product photos to try and pass off as their own.... Not much we can do about it except write a blog post:









Amazon Bike Light Sellers Stealing Our Photos


Well, these kind of articles/posts are quite annoying to write, but we feel it is necessary as there is really nothing a small business such as ourselves can do except try to make people aware. Recently we discovered that one of the top selling Amazon bike lights (sold by VASTFIRE) blatantly...




www.outboundlighting.com





Really frustrating to see, but not unexpected in this day and age, and just another reminder of why we won't sell on Amazon when they let this stuff slide. Zero seller protection which is great for the shady places reselling stuff, not great for small businesses like ours.


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## Notthatbryan (Aug 7, 2021)

After a couple of rides with these all I can say is WOW! They are amazing. Tons of light and cast very naturally. A couple of friends on a ride stated that it was like the sun was out compared to other lights. 2 riding buddies have also bought them since.


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

I did a little test last night for my ride since it was pretty cold. I blocked the front vent of the light with some foam to see if it would improve the duration and it worked out pretty well.

Temp between -25C and -28C, took 52 minutes to get to 3/4 from full. At the 1h45 mark it went to 2/4.

So, if you block the front vent in really cold conditions, you will get durations closer to what you would get at a 25C-30C higher temp. The light was always cold over the 2h my ride lasted. Not blocking the top vent insured that there was a way for the heat to go out. The light was in medium mode.

I hope this can help some people!


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

That mirrors what I've found with mine at those temps and colder on medium. I've got both vents covered with electrical tape on mine. I would need to find my post from a long while ago, but my recollection is that taping up the vents improved the cold weather burn times by about 10-20%.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

lRaphl said:


> I did a little test last night for my ride since it was pretty cold. I blocked the front vent of the light with some foam to see if it would improve the duration and it worked out pretty well.
> 
> Temp between -25C and -28C, took 52 minutes to get to 3/4 from full. At the 1h45 mark it went to 2/4.
> 
> ...


some of our Alaskan customers do that. Though now thinking that could be an interesting cheap little upsell product we could produce, along with a insulating sleeve for hangover potentially. 🧐


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

I don't have the hangover but somehow I would be tempted to think it would not be affected as much by the cold since it's on you head and it happens to be the body part that loose the most heat. My Cygolite lights seems to last longer on my head than on my handlebar.

Little addons for those lights for really cold conditions could still be of interest instead of doing some home hacks!


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## WhiteDLite (Mar 4, 2016)

Anyone running two EVO’s now that they released the GoPro mount?

I’m not referring to two on the bars, but one on the bars and one on the helmet.


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## mtnbikerva1 (Feb 4, 2008)

WhiteDLite said:


> Anyone running two EVO’s now that they released the GoPro mount?
> 
> I’m not referring to two on the bars, but one on the bars and one on the helmet.


trail Evo would be too heavy for my liking, on a helmet.
I like the Trail Evo on my bar though!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

It is indeed prettyyyyy heavy and concentrated to put on your head, I wouldn't personally recomend it.

In other news, Seth likes our stuff.  Some facts about ownership not quite right (Tom is an owner, who he met at Sedona, but I did the optical and mechanical engineering, Tom does mostly electrical) but i'll let it slide since he clearly likes the lights.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Not a whole lot to report, except that we do have lots of stock ready for the fall! Over 2,000 Evo's have been built over the summer and still building around 300 a week to try and maintain stock through the busy season.

We had to make a lot of changes to the PCB's to keep up with IC chip shortages, but nothing that the end user will notice, same output, same runtime, same battery, etc.

In company news, we were named #672 on the Inc 5000 fastest growing companies in the USA. Pretty cool achievement, and I think one of the few bike companies on the list.



https://www.inc.com/profile/outbound-lighting


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## icycle (Apr 20, 2004)

Outbound said:


> We are working on a dc5521 to usb converter that is much slimmer than the one magicshine used to sell so that users of the old external battery packs, and anyone with a dc5521 pack can use those to supplement evo or hangover power.


Hi @Outbound, I'm considering the Evo and am reading about the QC3 recommendations in this thread. I've got a couple of your Trail batteries here (still in use) and am wondering if I can leverage this investment to feed pass-through charging for the Evo. Wondered the status of your connector, or aftermarket variants of the same, and whether these batteries will meet the current demands for this use case?

thanks!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

icycle said:


> Hi @Outbound, I'm considering the Evo and am reading about the QC3 recommendations in this thread. I've got a couple of your Trail batteries here (still in use) and am wondering if I can leverage this investment to feed pass-through charging for the Evo. Wondered the status of your connector, or aftermarket variants of the same, and whether these batteries will meet the current demands for this use case?
> 
> thanks!


So..... I'm not going to say this is officially recommended, or be able to provide support if this thing doesn't work, but I will say that I did test this amazon DC5521 to USB-C plug and it does charge up Evo pretty well and allow for pass through, so give it a whirl: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092V6ZY83?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Outbound said:


> So..... I'm not going to say this is officially recommended, or be able to provide support if this thing doesn't work, but I will say that I did test this amazon DC5521 to USB-C plug and it does charge up Evo pretty well and allow for pass through, so give it a whirl: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092V6ZY83?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details





Outbound said:


> So..... I'm not going to say this is officially recommended, or be able to provide support if this thing doesn't work, but I will say that I did test this amazon DC5521 to USB-C plug and it does charge up Evo pretty well and allow for pass through, so give it a whirl: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092V6ZY83?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details


@Outbound might that work with the Hangover as well? I've rejected the Hangover before due to battery life and brightness, but if I can run if on full for upto 3 hours using the existing batteries I've got, then I may try it again; especially with the new body.


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## icycle (Apr 20, 2004)

Roaming50 said:


> @Outbound might that work with the Hangover as well? I've rejected the Hangover before due to battery life and brightness, but if I can run if on full for upto 3 hours using the existing batteries I've got, then I may try it again; especially with the new body.


I bought the suggested cable (thanks @Outbound !) and tested it with my Hangover yesterday, works like a champ. FYI, the USB-C connector is straight, so it may interfere with the helmet.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

@icycle, is that an 8.4v 2S2P battery pack?

thanksinadvance



icycle said:


> I bought the suggested cable (thanks @Outbound !) and tested it with my Hangover yesterday, works like a champ. FYI, the USB-C connector is straight, so it may interfere with the helmet.
> View attachment 2003144
> 
> 
> ...


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## icycle (Apr 20, 2004)

patski said:


> @icycle, is that an 8.4v 2S2P battery pack?
> 
> thanksinadvance


I don't think so, this is the Outbound Trail battery, as found here:








Spare Battery Pack


Battery pack designed to work with the Trail/Road Edition Lights. Waterproof snap connector, overmolded silicone case, 7.4V 6400mAH.




www.outboundlighting.com


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

icycle said:


> I don't think so, this is the Outbound Trail battery, as found here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is, there are just different ways of rating them. 8.4v is fully charged and 7.4v is based on the rated nominal cell voltage.


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

In for a couple of the combo kits. had to order new helmets for the mrs and me to fit the curved. first world problems. Hopefully my cap one credit card will cover the difference for me when these go on sale for BF  Thanks outbound !


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## WhiteDLite (Mar 4, 2016)

So I just received another DH Evo set thinking it’s cooling off maybe the wife would like to do some easy lake trail rides when we get off and well this is what it progressed to. I figured WTH, let’s give this a go. Not original intention, but


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Just FYI, the mount cleat can be used in the flipped orientation (which looking at your picture, you already have...), so that might work better with the lights side-by-side, rather than right on top of each other. [bottom light on the right, top on the left]

I mean--I'm assuming--if you are running two light cannons, but nothing on the helmet, you probably want more left/right than up/down.

Otherwise, carry on


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

grrr went on sale already for BF. I purchase just 7 days ago. If I'd have known it was gunna be an early sale, i'd a-waited. Evo Downhill Package (Evo & Hangover)


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

BillyBicycle said:


> grrr went on sale already for BF. I purchase just 7 days ago. If I'd have known it was gunna be an early sale, i'd a-waited. Evo Downhill Package (Evo & Hangover)


Just send us an email, if you are nice we'll probably refund you the difference, ha. Now if you ordered 2-3 weeks ago, not so much. Those who are ordering now are probably going to be waiting a bit, like 2-3 days before shipping, and potentially a week or more as BF gets closer. This has already been a wild day.


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

fantastic lights BTW. I am going to order four extra mounts to move these from bike to bike.


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## WhiteDLite (Mar 4, 2016)

BillyBicycle said:


> grrr went on sale already for BF. I purchase just 7 days ago. If I'd have known it was gunna be an early sale, i'd a-waited. Evo Downhill Package (Evo & Hangover)





Outbound said:


> Just send us an email, if you are nice we'll probably refund you the difference, ha. Now if you ordered 2-3 weeks ago, not so much. Those who are ordering now are probably going to be waiting a bit, like 2-3 days before shipping, and potentially a week or more as BF gets closer. This has already been a wild day.


I'm in same boat, order 26545.. I'll send you guys an email to see options. 

Thanks,


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Going to have to put a disclaimer here. If you guys already purchased a light weeks ago via the FB/IG discount (that we have been trying for weeks to have FB stop doing, but they won't), and now requesting that we try and price match on top of that for the current sale.... just please don't. 

It's already a nightmare and a half dealing with Zuckerberg trying to make FB Shop a thing, let alone issuing refunds and having that work with our accounting. We are 4 people in total here, trying to ship out almost 1000 orders, 2 people trying to work the emails and phones. It's chaos.


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## off_road (Jul 7, 2007)

Another shoutout to how amazing this light is. Went on my first ride last night with just the Evo by itself and was blown away at how well I could see. The light pattern is super smooth and wide. Can only imagine how good it would be with the Hangover in addition. Medium power was plenty for everything except some faster downhills where I switched to High.


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## Thumper33 (Aug 3, 2007)

Is it going to blind and piss people off if I use a evo downhill setup for commuting?


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Thumper33 said:


> Is it going to blind and piss people off if I use a evo downhill setup for commuting?


It’ll piss you off as much as everyone else using the EVO, or any MTB light, as the beam will reflect off street signs, blinding you as you commute at night. 

You need the Road Edition (or whatever the new version of that is called) for commuting. That has a horizontal beam cut off and is super awesome for street riding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Thumper33 said:


> Is it going to blind and piss people off if I use a evo downhill setup for commuting?


Keeping your lights aimed down a bit and set on low will be no more blinding than most of the lights currently sold as commuter appropriate. Cut-off beam lights perform better in a commuting situation because they allow you to run higher lumen settings before they become blinding so up to you to decide if your wants/needs justify an additional cut-off beam light.
Mole


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## Thumper33 (Aug 3, 2007)

I really want to try to get the trail version not to blind people. My thought is to make a brim for it like a baseball cap that I could use during a commute, but remove for the trail. The brim would cut off light on a straight line so I could cut off the high light. Am I kidding myself or would this work?


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## BarryR (6 mo ago)

Thumper33 said:


> I really want to try to get the trail version not to blind people. My thought is to make a brim for it like a baseball cap that I could use during a commute, but remove for the trail. The brim would cut off light on a straight line so I could cut off the high light. Am I kidding myself or would this work?


Might work. Email Outbound Lighting for their thoughts. You'll probably get an answer within 24 hours.
Seems like it would be a great accessory (though I don't road bike).
I doubt they're working on one but if they were wouldn't be surprised if they offered to send you one!


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Thumper33 said:


> I really want to try to get the trail version not to blind people. My thought is to make a brim for it like a baseball cap that I could use during a commute, but remove for the trail. The brim would cut off light on a straight line so I could cut off the high light. Am I kidding myself or would this work?


You could probably make a shroud, but it's not quite the same thing. BuMM made one for their Big Bang, back when that was state-of-the-art. If you're okay with a wire, the original MTB light has a more defined cutoff, and I've used it successfully on a road bike.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Thumper33 said:


> I really want to try to get the trail version not to blind people. My thought is to make a brim for it like a baseball cap that I could use during a commute, but remove for the trail. The brim would cut off light on a straight line so I could cut off the high light. Am I kidding myself or would this work?


If you're riding a Mt. bike on single track the lights you need to use need to be able to illuminate a fairly wide area and also throw some light head high. Most avid night trail riders are going to use a bar and helmet lamp so head high really goes without speaking. Lots of reasons for this. If you had only a bar lamp with a sharp upper cutoff you might hit your head or face on low lying branches. Not to mention the occasional spider web with _*2" spiders sitting in the middle of the trail around head high_. ( *when in season ) The best you can do if you meet another rider at night going the opposite direction is to slow down and turn your bar lamp to a low output and turn your helmet light off. That said I rarely encounter other riders when riding at night on trails so I don't consider it a big issue because rarely has anyone ever lowered their output when approaching me. 

As for road / commuter use; I use the same light for the road as I do for the trail. Not going to worry about blinding anyone because 70% ( my estimate ) of the cars on the road today have newer, brighter lights that are at least twice as bright as my bike light so if people can handle the constant glare from all those cars my bike light off to the shoulder of the road is almost nothing in comparison. ( note; I drive for a living, do a lot of night driving and also takes me 45 minutes to drive home at night ) The only place I feel obligated to use a cut-off type lamp is when I ride on MUP's. That's because the paved path is usually only six feet wide and so anyone approaching me from the opposite direction would bear the direct brunt of my brights if I left them on. So, I use two lights when I plan to ride MUP's. One with cutoff set on low and the other the usual bright light with tons of output. If or when I see anyone ahead of me on a MUP I immediately reach to turn my main lamp off. Funny but I've been doing this for years and no one on a MUP that I've ever come up on has ever thanked me for turning off the main light. As for me, on the rare occasion someone has approached me using bright lights I just lower my head, let the visor on my helmet block most of the light and / or also turn my head and look away if the glare is really bad.


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## off_road (Jul 7, 2007)

Thumper33 said:


> I really want to try to get the trail version not to blind people. My thought is to make a brim for it like a baseball cap that I could use during a commute, but remove for the trail. The brim would cut off light on a straight line so I could cut off the high light. Am I kidding myself or would this work?


I literally had this same thought! If Outbound sold something like this (even a basic 3D printed piece) I would absolutely buy one for road use.

I went through the same debate for whether or not the Evo would be too bright for road use. My conclusion is while it might be a tad overkill, I would rather be seen by other drivers than not. I feel every bit of visibility a cyclist can gain on the road is in our advantage for safety.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

off_road said:


> I literally had this same thought! If Outbound sold something like this (even a basic 3D printed piece) I would absolutely buy one for road use.
> 
> I went through the same debate for whether or not the Evo would be too bright for road use. My conclusion is while it might be a tad overkill, I would rather be seen by other drivers than not. I feel every bit of visibility a cyclist can gain on the road is in our advantage for safety.


I did some testing, knowing what the answer already is, but you'd need to block off almost 50% of the front light output to get a "cutoff" but might not be a bad experiment to 3d print a piece to snap onto the top of Evo for commuting, I'll look into it more later.

_EDIT_. Nah. In order to generate a decent enough cutoff, a brim has to stick out almost 4" ahead of the light, and block 50% of the lens. It'd be comically impractical unfortunately.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Was a podcast guest a couple weeks ago, looks like the episode dropped:



https://thegravelride.bike/matt-conte-outbound-lighting



This is the first time I've sat down to do a podcast, and I think I realized that I say "and stuff" and "like that" WAY too much, and apparently completely misinterpreted one of his questions... but anywho, might be interesting to listen to for those that are interested. Talked a bit about the formation, goals, plans, LED tech, how we run the business, and why we do things the way we do.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

off_road said:


> ..... My conclusion is while it might be a tad overkill, I would rather be seen by other drivers than not. I feel every bit of visibility a cyclist can gain on the road is in our advantage for safety.


I've been telling people the same thing for years. I tend to be one for overkill. My road setup has up to five sources of light looking forward. Main light is a Fireflies E07 torch ( 7-XPL Hi ) which I generally run @ ~ 800-1200 lumen. Back-up front lights ( generally not used ) are as follows; Ravemen CR-900 ( for MUP only ), Gemini Duo with wireless remote ( only used for emergency flash or high beam ). 400 lumen LED light built into the head tube ( e-bike light, rarely use ), lastly, a mini flasher mounted to the lower front fork set to "flicker". Not going to count my helmet torch which I only use to spot dear on roads with lots of wooded areas. 

Notable mentions....reflective sidewalls on my tires, wheel lights ( two on each wheel ), two side lights ( one amber and one red both set to flash ) Zecto Max 250 mounted on my rear box, Cygolite Hotshot 150 mounted on back of my helmet, two lower red LED's built into the frames chain/seat stays ( this is an e-bike but I rarely use these lights ). Lastly, lots of DOT-2 reflective tape on back of my jerseys and jackets. I've been told I've been reported as a UFO by pilots flying overhead on their way to BWI airport....


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Outbound said:


> Was a podcast guest a couple weeks ago, looks like the episode dropped:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, hearing/seeing ourselves can be a bit jarring. Watching my self on recorded zoom meeting was cringe-worthy at first.  

Great info. You go into some good detail that I think you should have on your website. Not in the shorter ad copy, but more of a deep dive for those interested. Your description of your impression of your friends' NR bike light was very good. Also, the theory behind how our eyes react to light is useful, and how you incorporate that into the design. Also more about how the evo and hangover work together and why someone like me who is running a Cygolite on my helmet with a different bulb temp from the Trail Evo I have on my bars might want to go ahead and get the hangover.


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## BarryR (6 mo ago)

BarryR said:


> Might work. Email Outbound Lighting for their thoughts. You'll probably get an answer within 24 hours.
> Seems like it would be a great accessory (though I don't road bike).
> I doubt they're working on one but if they were wouldn't be surprised if they offered to send you one!


I was close - it took 48 hours to get a thorough reply.
Too bad it won't work.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

kapusta said:


> Yeah, hearing/seeing ourselves can be a bit jarring. Watching my self on recorded zoom meeting was cringe-worthy at first.


Cringe worthy indeed. I do a small YouTube channel occasionally and it takes a surprising amount of work to make me sound coherent at times. I also learned to speed up my video my 6% as I speak slow it appears! We are our own worst critic.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Some year end updates:

Tom just headed back after spending a few days here at HQ helping us get through the holiday crush. Should be fully caught up from the 5000+ (!!!!) orders we had over the last month. It's now been a year since we've been in our new space and looking back its pretty crazy how quickly things have shaped up in 12 months. Tons of new machines, new pallet racking, revised our shipping layouts to improve fulfillment speeds, rearranged our production line a few times to improve throughput. Lots of little things like buying mobile baking racks so we can put almost 800 lights in build on PCB safe fiberglass baking pans, running air lines all over the ceiling with drops to put air right where we need it, getting our kitchen fully built up, etc.

We now have 4 primary machines that are in use everyday:

1. Fisnar Dispensing gantry machine. This is a big ole boy, a basic XYZ coordinate machine that's used to dispense thermal grease on every housing. Recently upgraded it with a height sensor and a tip alignment sensor so that any variations of the table, fixture, or even if the housing wasn't perfectly seated in the alignment fixture, it can compensate and still dispense a perfect dollop of thermal grease.

2. Box Folding machine. We made the decision last year to standardize our product packaging boxes to a single 6x6x3 folding box that we could print different designs on. The reason for this was to simplifiy our logistics, and allow us to purchase a pretty expensive but highly effective box folding machine. This thing can crank out 15 boxes a minute and reduces the task of packaging our lights just a little bit more. We boxed up nearly 25,000 boxes this year, and at 10 seconds to fold a box on average, that's almost an entire week of work saved by one machine.

3. Automated Soldering Robot. This is another fairly basic XYZ gantry machine that has a soldering tip on it. We use this to solder Trail Evo and Detour boards. It's been kind of finicky to get setup, but it lets us fly through Evo assembly once it's dialed in. We load up 12 lights at a time and press go. While it's soldering we can start assembling the top shells or putting batteries in to prepare for the next batch of lights to go through the soldering process. Another one of those machines that we thought would just be cool to have, but turns out to really really help speed up production.

4. Battery Spot Welding machine. With Detour we are welding tabs to bare batteries that we get from a supplier. The battery protection circuit is built onto the PCB. So this lets us bang through batteries very quickly. It's a high end, dead-reliable machine that's welded almost 5000 batteries so far. We are excited to use this in the future to start building our own battery packs to incorporate some really cool features that are in work right now.

We are planning on getting two more machines to help us out in 2023, really excited for these:

1. Box Case making machine. Similar to the box folding robot. This thing will fold our 6x6x3, 6x6x6 and 6x6x9 shipping boxes in large batches to help speed up our fulfillment. We realized that about 35-40% of the time spent shipping an order is spent just finding, folding, and taping the shipping box. So that is a step that can be easily automated and done well ahead of time. That way we can almost double our shipping speed without the need to hire an additional person, or easy to have someone else jump in and help shipping during the times we need burst capacity.

2. Large 50" reach Cobot with integrated vision. This is the one I am most excited for. My long term goal has always been to automate as much of the assembly process as possible so that we can keep production tightly controlled and within our warehouse. Right now it is possible for Detour to be 100% autonomously assembled since we designed the light from the start to be, and hope to start rolling that out soon. It will be a complex engineering challenge to develop the production center, fixtures, tooling, and integrate the sensors to do checks, but it's all possible. 

Basically we'll feed the production center with trays of loose parts, the camera vision system can pick up the parts from any orientation, align it, place them into an assembly fixture, press it together, then do vision checks for things like part lines, shut lines, and even turn on the light to check for operation. For example can setup a light sensor to make sure the correct amount of light is outputted, and then a vision system to check the status lights are all operating. Right now the only complex task that will probably still be checked by hand is the USB charging operation, but still can be done in the future I am sure.

Goal is that any new products we develop, they can be autonomously built to improve the speed, keep production stateside, but most importantly improve the quality. Things like switching to the thermally conductive plastics has been huge for that since it allows much tighter tolerances and such.

I did the numbers last week, and so far since we started delivering lights in 2018, we've built over 40,000 lights. Pretty mind blowing considering the kickstarter to launch the company was only about... 100 lights, ha. Our production plans for 2023 already has us planned to build around 30-35,000 lights, so within a little over a year I am hoping we'll hit that 100,000 lights built milestone.

We do hope to roll out a new light in 2023, primary goals are to revamp the bar mount for the 3rd time (some cool new things we are prototyping soon), and make minor improvements to Detour and Evo. Nothing earth shaking of course, mostly things to improve assembly, aesthetics, and quality.

We are still working hard for the next 2 weeks to get things smoothly completed up to Xmas. Then we'll take a week-long break before jumping into 2023!


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

Nothing new here to report but my first ride tonight with the hangover and trail EVO was just awesome. Thanks for making a great product.

Mike 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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