# Anyone in USA buy a Pivot Shuttle from Europe?



## ThankYouJerry (Aug 6, 2017)

Has anyone in the USA purchased a Pivot Shuttle from Europe? If so, what was the total purchase, customs, and shipping cost? Can you recommend a retailer in Europe? Thx.


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## ThankYouJerry (Aug 6, 2017)

There must be USA customers buying Pivot Shuttles from Europe?!?! Shipping and customs isn't that much. I order classic car parts from Europe all the time.


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## sparrow (Dec 30, 2003)

The press release for this bike was Aug 30, 2017. Have any shipped yet? I’ve only seen press release/media launch info. Nothing in delivery. It would not be unheard of to have delivery to retailers follow by 3-4 month’s time. Anyone in Europe seen one on a shop floor?


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

A friend who sells Pivot in his shop has ridden one and was very impressed. For me, the cost precludes purchase even if I could afford one.


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

I am wonder what you would need to do to get it charge with the difference in US voltage and outlet styles. Maybe the charger is a smart one and this would not be an issue.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

If the e-Pivot is 6-7 pounds lighter than Levo, Trek.......?
Where is the weight being reduced?
Carbon fiber?
Motor and controls?
Battery capacity?
Build quality?
Tire size?

2017 Bosch/Haibike weighs 51#
2018 Hightower weighs 31#
That 20#'s is significant just loading up the bikes let alone carrying over logs, boulders....
What is the reality of how light an e-mtb can be built that we are willing to afford, and we accept as being light enough?


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Wah, the first off topic post ever on emptybeer. But just so I have this straight it is ok for the poster above to compare other models to the Pivot but no one else can? Carry on


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Hey Mr Bigwheel, that post is super off the topic... maybe let the OP have a thread not overflowing with unrelated propaganda? You can start your own thread, it’s not hard.

Back on topic, I would also be interested in knowing if anyone has received a Shuttle, in the US or elsewhere.


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

Can't help OP with his question, but ...

The NEW LBS in Walnut Creek, CA (Frame Up Bikes) sells Pivot Mtbs. They have been told the Shuttle is coming soon!

I asked for a medium to demo.  We'll see how long "soon" is!

Catfish ...


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## ThankYouJerry (Aug 6, 2017)

I have one on order for the US debut in April. Sorry, can't say more than that.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

I cant wait to ride that bike! If its as good as they say it is I just might get one too!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## High Rock Ruti (Dec 4, 2017)

*Pivot Shuttle Importing from Europe*



ThankYouJerry said:


> Has anyone in the USA purchased a Pivot Shuttle from Europe? If so, what was the total purchase, customs, and shipping cost? Can you recommend a retailer in Europe? Thx.


I was in contact with Freeborn Bike in the UK. The bike was ten thousand pounds, exporting saves on the VAT tax but not the US import tax of 11% Shipping was around $350 dollars. Batteries can not be taken on domestic flights but can be shipped by air cargo or shipping container,

Someone said they heard through the pivot grape vine that the Shuttle is being sold in the USA in April, a rumor I really hope is true.

High Rock Ruti


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## Double Butted (Jan 27, 2015)

There were a few at Sedona MTB fest. I would like the $$$ for the US price tag.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

12k in the Murray article, that’s a lot of dough, way more than an equally outfitted Switchblade. The website says 10k.

As spec’d less the drive it’s a 6k bike, maybe 7k with Di2, so the ebike upgrade is 1/3 more or so.

Great bike, no doubt it’s the best by a stretch, but the price is big money.

I’d buy a lower spec for 6k, don’t need Di2 or Eagle, carbon components save weight but increase the price dramatically.

Still waiting on someone to build an ebike that has less motor and battery for folks like me who don’t need the power, but would use it as needed. For example, I’ve ridden my wife’s Levo as a shuttle bike on pavement and that was the only time I used more than 25% assist. Off road, I can’t tolerate more assist because it throws off my timing and balance. 

A bike like the Switchblade, lightweight, good geo, good suspension, with an assist equivalent to 50% of what the Levo can provide would be plenty of power and would drop the weight significantly.

I messaged Devin at Lenz about his ebike, which “looks” lightweight based on the smaller battery and motor, no response so far. The first builder to get a good FS ebike under 40# is gonna get my money.


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

They're here! LBS got a medium & I got a parking-lot demo ride today!

Its SWEET & noticeably lighter than my Powerfly. Other than standover being a little tall for my 29" inseam, it fit me well on the pedals.

The "Trail" mode is very similar to the Bosch CX-Perf. eMTB mode. Smoother power delivery and quieter though. 

I love the normal chainring and delivered gearing range, 34/11-46.

It was all I could do to get out of there with my credit card intact! $10k he said. Expects new orders to take 3 months or so for delivery.

Maybe next year!

Catfish ...


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

highroad 2 said:


> If the e-Pivot is 6-7 pounds lighter than Levo, Trek.......?
> Where is the weight being reduced?
> Carbon fiber?
> Motor and controls?
> ...


I have a 2018 Specialized Carbon Comp Levo that weighs 45 lbs ready to ride (includes water bottle cage, GPS mount, and pedals) with 27.5 x 3.0 tires and the largest available battery. Specialized stocks the LEVO as tanks that can take abuse. Compare the specs between a Levo and a Pivot Shuttle and you will see all the weight savings are in components, wheels, and tires. The Levo comes with Grid tires, Code brake calipers and 203mm rotors (even the small bikes come this way), and 38mm internal aluminum rims. I switched to carbon handlebars, LightBicycle 45id carbon wheels, Schwalbe 3.0 tires, and a lighterweight cassette.

I think the big difference is not necessarily the weight but the motor and suspension. The Pivot having the Shimano motor and the Specialized having the Brose motor, 2 very different motors and feel. For suspension everyone has to decide on their own, but pedal efficiency is not nearly as critical as on a non e-mtb. Have fun!


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

motocatfish said:


> They're here! LBS got a medium & I got a parking-lot demo ride today!
> 
> Its SWEET & noticeably lighter than my Powerfly. Other than standover being a little tall for my 29" inseam, it fit me well on the pedals.
> 
> ...


After that post my credit card is about to receive some damage. Lol.


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

I am going to wait till next year. My Focus Jam2 with a few mods in XL size is 47 pounds. Love it but wish it was their carbon version. I think 2019/20 models we will see close to 40 pounds even.


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## High Rock Ruti (Dec 4, 2017)

LBS what Local Bike Shop (USA)has the pivot shuttle please?


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

HRR, don't know where you're located but my LBS in Tustin, CA has one @ $9999.99.


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## Phlegm420 (Oct 30, 2013)

I heard they only released 55 so far in the US. My LBS has sold 2. I got to touch and see them while being built. Pretty sweet.


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

High Rock Ruti said:


> LBS what Local Bike Shop (USA)has the pivot shuttle please?


Frame Up Bikes in Walnut Creek, CA. Its a showroom/parking-lot-demo queen (not for sale yet...) until at least one more comes in, in a few weeks.

Its SO SWEET!!! 

Catfish ...


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

JillRide45 said:


> The Pivot having the Shimano motor and the Specialized having the Brose motor, 2 very different motors and feel.


How are the motors different? I thoroughly enjoy my 2016 Specialized Levo Turbo (hacked with bigger wheel circumference). What is the Shimano motor like?

Thanks!


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

motocatfish said:


> They're here! LBS got a medium & I got a parking-lot demo ride today!
> 
> Its SWEET & noticeably lighter than my Powerfly. Other than standover being a little tall for my 29" inseam, it fit me well on the pedals.
> 
> ...


What size did you ride? I'm flummoxed as to why Pivot would make the medium Shuttle for up to 5'11".

Being 5'11" I ride a large in SC, Ibis, and my Specialized Levo Turbo. These sizing games are irritating.

On a related note, somehow I now wear a size 33" in Levis when it was a tight 34" for the last 10 years - and if anything, I've gained wait.

Are bike manufacturers coming out with vanity sizing too?


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

JillRide45 said:


> I have a 2018 Specialized Carbon Comp Levo that weighs 45 lbs ready to ride (includes water bottle cage, GPS mount, and pedals) with 27.5 x 3.0 tires and the largest available battery.


I'm surprised to hear this. Even the 2018 S-works clocks in close to 50 lbs with carbon everything and top of the line parts. You may want to check your scale. Just sayin'


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

camus said:


> I'm surprised to hear this. Even the 2018 S-works clocks in close to 50 lbs with carbon everything and top of the line parts. You may want to check your scale. Just sayin'


Get rid of those tubes and heavy specialized tires and you will save about 5 lbs. I have checked on multiple scales, all good here.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

JillRide45 said:


> Get rid of those tubes and heavy specialized tires and you will save about 5 lbs. I have checked on multiple scales, all good here.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Cool cool. Tubes have been long gone though I prefer to keep the Grid tires as I have to have stiffer sidewalls for my aggressive riding style.

Moreover, I don't have the time or money to switch out new Schwalbe tires every month when the knobs start disintegrating. Great tire for 2-3 rides. After that it's quickly downhill. I have about 5 half worn sets in my garage if anyone wants them.

For now I'll stick with Maxxis Minion DHRs on my Hightower and the Grids on the Levo.

Cheers!


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

camus said:


> Cool cool. Tubes have been long gone though I prefer to keep the Grid tires as I have to have stiffer sidewalls for my aggressive riding style.
> 
> Moreover, I don't have the time or money to switch out new Schwalbe tires every month when the knobs start disintegrating. Great tire for 2-3 rides. After that it's quickly downhill. I have about 5 half worn sets in my garage if anyone wants them.
> 
> ...


In my original comment I was just pointing out the differences between the Pivot and the Levo that reduce the weight. The Pivot runs Maxxis Rekon 2.8 tires, some of the lightest plus tires available, while your Levo comes with Grids, some of the heavier tires available. I weigh 115 ready to ride so I rarely wear out a tire.

The Shimano motor on the Pivot weighs almost exactly the same as the Brose motor and a 500wh Li-ion battery is pretty much a 500wh Li-ion battery. Between the two the real weight saving is in the wheels and components. With that being said I really only notice the weight in the parking lot and in the air.

Have fun, Jill


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

motocatfish said:


> Frame Up Bikes in Walnut Creek, CA. Its a showroom/parking-lot-demo queen (not for sale yet...) until at least one more comes in, in a few weeks.
> 
> Its SO SWEET!!!
> 
> Catfish ...


Heading over there this weekend to take a spin. Curious about the pros and cons VS. the Levo S-Works.

Some pros I can already see about the Levo:
- walk mode 
- lacks goofy navigation screen - I prefer a simple switch control that is easy to reach with my thumb
- better wheels and components all around
- SRAM conventional der - no worry about battery dying and not being able to shift (I understand the Di2 runs off of the Shuttles main battery)
- hackable firmware - if you ever have ridden an e-bike on the street and felt that "turn into a boat anchor" feeling at 20mph it's great that you can change the wheel circumference on the Levo
- shorter 165mm cranks - pedal strikes can be an issue on an e-bike
- $500 cheaper
- Better dealer support

Some pros I can imagine about the Shuttle:
- better suspension (maybe?)
- better build quality (according to Pivot fans)
- more all-mountain/DH oriented (a plus for me)
- Shimano motor - I've read it's better than the Brose - not sure until I ride it myself
- Looks better - cleaner lines and lacks the bulbous motor area of the Levo

Anyone want to chime in? Cheers!


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## High Rock Ruti (Dec 4, 2017)

*New US version Pivot Shuttle being shipped*



ThankYouJerry said:


> Has anyone in the USA purchased a Pivot Shuttle from Europe? If so, what was the total purchase, customs, and shipping cost? Can you recommend a retailer in Europe? Thx.


I was able to buy a large pivot shuttle from Bikesale.com Botthell Ski and Bike Kenmore Washington State $10K bike arrives next week. I searched for a bike for sale online, and found this shop. Great guys very responsive...so far. Living in Boston with JRA cycles Medford being a couple of miles away, I emailed the owner Brian, about ordering an ebike...no reply. I called the shop and spoke to Adam the buyer and was told that the shops affiliation with NEMBA (New England Mountain Biking Association) was falling inline with NEMBA"S avowed anti ebike stance. John from Bikesale.com called the national sales manager for Pivot explained the situation and was given permission to sell me the bike inside another Pivot dealers territory, spoke to Pivot who knew who I was,("oh your the guy from Boston that JRA does not want to sell a bikes to") they were friendly very reassuring about the purchase. Servicing the bike remains a concern, I have reached out to Landry's bikes in Newton MA they were open minded about trying to service the bike, sort of a big "we'll see what happens"

NEMBA is correct in their reading of approved riding areas for electric assisted bikes, there are very few by the book.........Reality however shows my personal experience to be anything but. I ride all the well know metro Boston trails All OF THEM. Not once not ever has anyone said anything unfriendly or regulatory in nature, I always invite strangers to try my ebike, the first 10 second test ride reactions are always the same "laughing with amusement gushing with amazement.

I waiting impatiently for my new Shuttle replaces my two year old Turbo Levo Expert, great bike too.

I'll be 64 this August, I ride nearly everyday about 30 miles a week (winter too) I think my levo has about 3000 miles on it. I'm never riding unassisted again. 2 hours at Lynwoods is 1500 calories of exercise and I can ride the next day, now that's what I call "ASSISTANCE"

Review to follow

High-Rock-Ruti


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## Linktung (Oct 22, 2014)

High Rock Ruti said:


> I was able to buy a large pivot shuttle from Bikesale.com Botthell Ski and Bike Kenmore Washington State $10K bike arrives next week. I searched for a bike for sale online, and found this shop. Great guys very responsive...so far. Living in Boston with JRA cycles Medford being a couple of miles away, I emailed the owner Brian, about ordering an ebike...no reply. I called the shop and spoke to Adam the buyer and was told that the shops affiliation with NEMBA (New England Mountain Biking Association) was falling inline with NEMBA"S avowed anti ebike stance. John from Bikesale.com called the national sales manager for Pivot explained the situation and was given permission to sell me the bike inside another Pivot dealers territory, spoke to Pivot who knew who I was,("oh your the guy from Boston that JRA does not want to sell a bikes to") they were friendly very reassuring about the purchase. Servicing the bike remains a concern, I have reached out to Landry's bikes in Newton MA they were open minded about trying to service the bike, sort of a big "we'll see what happens"
> 
> NEMBA is correct in their reading of approved riding areas for electric assisted bikes, there are very few by the book.........Reality however shows my personal experience to be anything but. I ride all the well know metro Boston trails All OF THEM. Not once not ever has anyone said anything unfriendly or regulatory in nature, I always invite strangers to try my ebike, the first 10 second test ride reactions are always the same "laughing with amusement gushing with amazement.
> 
> ...


Congrats!


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

High Rock Ruti said:


> I was able to buy a large pivot shuttle from Bikesale.com Botthell Ski and Bike Kenmore Washington State $10K bike arrives next week. I searched for a bike for sale online, and found this shop. Great guys very responsive...so far. Living in Boston with JRA cycles Medford being a couple of miles away, I emailed the owner Brian, about ordering an ebike...no reply. I called the shop and spoke to Adam the buyer and was told that the shops affiliation with NEMBA (New England Mountain Biking Association) was falling inline with NEMBA"S avowed anti ebike stance. John from Bikesale.com called the national sales manager for Pivot explained the situation and was given permission to sell me the bike inside another Pivot dealers territory, spoke to Pivot who knew who I was,("oh your the guy from Boston that JRA does not want to sell a bikes to") they were friendly very reassuring about the purchase. Servicing the bike remains a concern, I have reached out to Landry's bikes in Newton MA they were open minded about trying to service the bike, sort of a big "we'll see what happens"
> 
> NEMBA is correct in their reading of approved riding areas for electric assisted bikes, there are very few by the book.........Reality however shows my personal experience to be anything but. I ride all the well know metro Boston trails All OF THEM. Not once not ever has anyone said anything unfriendly or regulatory in nature, I always invite strangers to try my ebike, the first 10 second test ride reactions are always the same "laughing with amusement gushing with amazement.
> 
> ...


Another reminder of why I would never live on the east coast. The bike shop wouldn't even sell you a bike that their brand has? You can f*&^ck that attitude. They'd never see a dime from me again, for certain.

It will be interesting to check back with that shop again in 10 years when 50% of bike sales are e-capable. (In ten years the battery/motor will be an add on to bikes that can be ridden either way.)


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

High Rock Ruti said:


> I was able to buy a large pivot shuttle from Bikesale.com Botthell Ski and Bike Kenmore Washington State $10K bike arrives next week. I searched for a bike for sale online, and found this shop. Great guys very responsive...so far. Living in Boston with JRA cycles Medford being a couple of miles away, I emailed the owner Brian, about ordering an ebike...no reply. I called the shop and spoke to Adam the buyer and was told that the shops affiliation with NEMBA (New England Mountain Biking Association) was falling inline with NEMBA"S avowed anti ebike stance. John from Bikesale.com called the national sales manager for Pivot explained the situation and was given permission to sell me the bike inside another Pivot dealers territory, spoke to Pivot who knew who I was,("oh your the guy from Boston that JRA does not want to sell a bikes to") they were friendly very reassuring about the purchase. Servicing the bike remains a concern, I have reached out to Landry's bikes in Newton MA they were open minded about trying to service the bike, sort of a big "we'll see what happens"
> 
> NEMBA is correct in their reading of approved riding areas for electric assisted bikes, there are very few by the book.........Reality however shows my personal experience to be anything but. I ride all the well know metro Boston trails All OF THEM. Not once not ever has anyone said anything unfriendly or regulatory in nature, I always invite strangers to try my ebike, the first 10 second test ride reactions are always the same "laughing with amusement gushing with amazement.
> 
> ...


Glad you were able to get the bike.

As a small business owner it's amazing to me that a bike shop would not want to sell a high end bike (and make that revenue/margin). On the other hand, I suppose I have to admire them for their principles.

Nevertheless, hope you enjoy the Shuttle!


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

High Rock Ruti said:


> I was able to buy a large pivot shuttle from Bikesale.com Botthell Ski and Bike Kenmore Washington State $10K bike arrives next week. I searched for a bike for sale online, and found this shop. Great guys very responsive...so far. Living in Boston with JRA cycles Medford being a couple of miles away, I emailed the owner Brian, about ordering an ebike...no reply. I called the shop and spoke to Adam the buyer and was told that the shops affiliation with NEMBA (New England Mountain Biking Association) was falling inline with NEMBA"S avowed anti ebike stance. John from Bikesale.com called the national sales manager for Pivot explained the situation and was given permission to sell me the bike inside another Pivot dealers territory, spoke to Pivot who knew who I was,("oh your the guy from Boston that JRA does not want to sell a bikes to") they were friendly very reassuring about the purchase. Servicing the bike remains a concern, I have reached out to Landry's bikes in Newton MA they were open minded about trying to service the bike, sort of a big "we'll see what happens"
> 
> NEMBA is correct in their reading of approved riding areas for electric assisted bikes, there are very few by the book.........Reality however shows my personal experience to be anything but. I ride all the well know metro Boston trails All OF THEM. Not once not ever has anyone said anything unfriendly or regulatory in nature, I always invite strangers to try my ebike, the first 10 second test ride reactions are always the same "laughing with amusement gushing with amazement.
> 
> ...


 No motorized vehicles for the most part allowed on multi use trails in MA. There are a few places like Foxboro and out west that allow them. Are they legal at Lynn? Don't think so. So a big FU to all the progress mt bikers have made at gaining access? Where you going to ride when YOU get them all shut to all with wheels? Have fun on the bike path. Best not show up at any organized rides. Some words will be said. Reality may come crashing down on you for knowingly breaking the rules, good luck with that. JRA is a great supporter of all things mt biking. There is not legal place within their sales area for them to be used legally. So theres that. I hear the enviro police will come out on complaints, big fines and impounding of rides.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

honkinunit said:


> Another reminder of why I would never live on the east coast. The bike shop wouldn't even sell you a bike that their brand has? You can f*&^ck that attitude. They'd never see a dime from me again, for certain.
> 
> It will be interesting to check back with that shop again in 10 years when 50% of bike sales are e-capable. (In ten years the battery/motor will be an add on to bikes that can be ridden either way.)


 There is no legal place for them to be ridden in the sales area. Rules and such.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

camus said:


> Glad you were able to get the bike.
> 
> As a small business owner it's amazing to me that a bike shop would not want to sell a high end bike (and make that revenue/margin). On the other hand, I suppose I have to admire them for their principles.
> 
> Nevertheless, hope you enjoy the Shuttle!


 JRA is a huge supporter of mt bikers, mt bike trails and all things mt bikes. There are no legal areas for e mt bikes to be ridden in their sales area. Why would they sell them and have some potential backfire to all thing mt bikes? The Boston area has a great and diverse riding area, for trails and mt bikers, big numbers. Nothing legal for e bikes except way down south in Foxboro, maybe an hr +car ride for some moto trails.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

leeboh said:


> There is no legal place for them to be ridden in the sales area. Rules and such.


So I'm guessing the car dealers in MA don't sell cars capable of going over the silly 65 MPH speed limit you have? Rules and such?


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

^^^^ Kinda of a stretch, even for you. Riding your tractor or atv on the hi way? Not allowed. Same thing. There are maybe 8 legal places for the public to ride atv's/motos, motorized vehicles in the whole state of MA. One is south down in Foxboro, most are way out in the western part of the state. Most public mt bike areas are in state forest and parks, some on local, town and private conservation areas. All do not allow motorized vehicles on multi use off road trails. Facts, rules and such.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

leeboh said:


> ^^^^ Kinda of a stretch, even for you. Riding your tractor or atv on the hi way? Not allowed. Same thing. There are maybe 8 legal places for the public to ride atv's/motos, motorized vehicles in the whole state of MA. One is south down in Foxboro, most are way out in the western part of the state. Most public mt bike areas are in state forest and parks, some on local, town and private conservation areas. All do not allow motorized vehicles on multi use off road trails. Facts, rules and such.


And MA has zero public roadways where you can go over 65 MPH legally.

Corvette ZR1 can do 210 MPH. OH THE HUMANITY! Chevrolet dealers should refuse to sell them in MA.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Not getting the point? Hmmm. I should type slower? No legal place to ride them anywhere near that shop.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

honkinunit said:


> And MA has zero public roadways where you can go over 65 MPH legally.
> 
> Corvette ZR1 can do 210 MPH. OH THE HUMANITY! Chevrolet dealers should refuse to sell them in MA.


Get caught you go to jail and car impounded.

Car can go that fast and you can buy it, but to make use of those speeds you know full well going into it YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT A TRACK WHERE ITS LEGAL.

On trails get caught get a ticket and risk everyone in bicycles loosing trail access. Kind of a stupid risk dont you think? No different then trying to take a dirt bike on the same trails, I'm guessing you think you can do that too without consequences?

Your arguing against yourself basically here. Your examples make the case against yourself without anyone's input.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Do Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, etc. sell dirt bikes there? Are you allowed to ride them in their sales area legally? Do they sell jet-skis and snow machines even though many lakes ban PWCs and snow machines come under the same rules as ATVs?

Or do they feel that their customers are the ones responsible for the safe legal operation of the products that they sell. And they do not try to read the buyers mind as to where the products they legally sell will be used either.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

leeboh said:


> Not getting the point? Hmmm. I should type slower? No legal place to ride them anywhere near that shop.


 There is probably no legal place to ride a MX bike or a snow machine nearby either, but I bet they are sold there. How dare these people dictate what I can buy to use on my own property or what I can buy to ride in other areas on my vacation!

BTW, I thought it was totally legal to ride a mountain bike on the street, electric or otherwise. Is this not the case where this shop is located? If so, then there are literally thousands of miles of places to ride them just outside of the shop parking lot......


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

WoodlandHills said:


> Do Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, etc. sell dirt bikes there? Are you allowed to ride them in their sales area legally? Do they sell jet-skis and snow machines even though many lakes ban PWCs and snow machines come under the same rules as ATVs?
> 
> Or do they feel that their customers are the ones responsible for the safe legal operation of the products that they sell. And they do not try to read the buyers mind as to where the products they legally sell will be used either.


 No legal places to ride motos of any kind off road nearby. The owner of the shop supports legal mt biking and has a great following. We have something called the Atlantic ocean nearby, so pwc's can use that. Hell in a " snow emergency" snow machines can be run on the street. 2 of my neighbors were helping fire and rescue on the last one doing some medical/well being checks with a paramedic on back. Not going to speak for the owner, it's his choice. Lots of supporters. One " other " shop in the area did an e bike " demo" at a local area. Not legal, huge push back, losing customers, bad pr. Face book in flames. The shop withdrew all the mt bikes on display. Lots of e commuters, that's great for them.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

WoodlandHills said:


> There is probably no legal place to ride a MX bike or a snow machine nearby either, but I bet they are sold there. How dare these people dictate what I can buy to use on my own property or what I can buy to ride in other areas on my vacation!
> 
> BTW, I thought it was totally legal to ride a mountain bike on the street, electric or otherwise. Is this not the case where this shop is located? If so, then there are literally thousands of miles of places to ride them just outside of the shop parking lot......


 Keep to your CA ways, no clue as what goes on the East Coast. So many riders, so many trail issues. You would shop elsewhere I guess, it's a free country. Most riders would ride a road bike or commuter for pave, plenty of e stuff for that. You need 6" of travel and big knobby tires for pave? Them must be some really lousy roads.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

leeboh said:


> Keep to your CA ways, no clue as what goes on the East Coast. So many riders, so many trail issues. You would shop elsewhere I guess, it's a free country. Most riders would ride a road bike or commuter for pave, plenty of e stuff for that. You need 6" of travel and big knobby tires for pave? Them must be some really lousy roads.


 Really? I see lots of MTBs being ridden on the pavement here in CA. Especially in Los Angeles with the curbs, potholes and generally terrible pavement. Try bike commuting on a rigid framed bike once or twice: you will soon switch to FS, and the more travel the better......

I see you avoided my question about local MX dealers. Does the local Yamaha dealer sell 125cc or 250cc race bikes to locals who transport them to tracks around the state on weekends or have they also decided that their neighbors are not permitted to buy one for use elsewhere, since they cannot be trusted to use them in a legal manner?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I’m a mtbr and also own Ebikes. I gotta agree with Leeboh here. No need for poaching, gives everyone on two wheels a bad rap. Gotta chill and see if things change. Nice ebike purchase btw.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

WoodlandHills said:


> Really? I see lots of MTBs being ridden on the pavement here in CA. Especially in Los Angeles with the curbs, potholes and generally terrible pavement. Try bike commuting on a rigid framed bike once or twice: you will soon switch to FS, and the more travel the better......
> 
> I see you avoided my question about local MX dealers. Does the local Yamaha dealer sell 125cc or 250cc race bikes to locals who transport them to tracks around the state on weekends or have they also decided that their neighbors are not permitted to buy one for use elsewhere, since they cannot be trusted to use them in a legal manner?


 Not many commuters pedal sus bikes. Been commuting since 2004 on many kinds of rigid commuters. 2 with 35 mm tires. MA has got you beat for crappy roads, really. Got frost heaves or pot holes? What race tracks? Where? I don't shop at MX stores, no clue. They get impounded and fined for poaching the local trails though. This is not CA, as stated. We tend to do thing different than what goes on in La La land or the left coast.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

High Rock Ruti said:


> . I ride all the well know metro Boston trails All OF THEM. Not once not ever has anyone said anything unfriendly or regulatory in nature, I always invite strangers to try my ebike, the first 10 second test ride reactions are always the same "laughing with amusement gushing with amazement.


exactly it's just the ridiculous better than thou internet bufoons that have to try and prove how wonderful they are constantly. I live i a large metro area and people are very accepting of bicycles be it analog or e


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

natrat said:


> exactly it's just the ridiculous better than thou internet bufoons that have to try and prove how wonderful they are constantly. I live i a large metro area and people are very accepting of bicycles be it analog or e


 Not legal on the trails where High rock rides. Rules n such.


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## magic71 (Oct 24, 2008)

So here is my $1.02 on topic of e-bikes
its very simple ....
No one not a one person is stoping e-mtb enthusiasts to gang together and fight their way to legally access trails, who knows how easy it may go? Just ask any mountain biking advocate or trail builder from my area (New England). Go to meetings with your local ConsComs and public land managers and just quietly mention that your bicycle has a motor and let's see how well that goes over with them, lemme know how it went.

I have no problem what so ever with e-mtb on legal trails go nuts on them, but do not be caught on non motorized public trail (if it is your backyard, go shred it!) 
DO NOT RUIN what many have been fighting for a long time to regain access on pubic lands, just imagine angry mob of mountain bikers, no one wants that.

So let's say that you do go and ride your e-mtb on trails you should not have been on and you do get caught and as an easy way to prevent this from happening in the future land manager decides to forbid ALL bikes from entering the woods, first now we have an angry mob of mountain bikers AND second who would be buying bikes from the local shop if there is no place to ride ANY BIKES? I guess only place would be your backyard.

As for JRA not wanting to sell e-mtb to a customer ...well they do see the big picture of legal trail access for MTBs why ruin it by selling few e-mtb and have all the fingers pointing at them onces we all get kicked out of thee woods, that would be very short sighted.

Once there is good amount of trails that are available to e-things I am sure you will be able to get your finest Pivot at JRA, so lets go and get that e-bike thing going by starting your own e-(insert name here) organization

that was my personal opinion, it is very much aligned with official NEMBA statment
here is a link to it 
NEMBA Guidance to New England Bicycles Dealers Regarding The Issue of Electric Mountain Bikes | NEMBA

Maciej Sobieszek
President of GBNEMBA


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## feral (Feb 10, 2007)

High Rock Ruti said:


> I was able to buy a large pivot shuttle from Bikesale.com Botthell Ski and Bike Kenmore Washington State $10K bike arrives next week. I searched for a bike for sale online, and found this shop. Great guys very responsive...so far. Living in Boston with JRA cycles Medford being a couple of miles away, I emailed the owner Brian, about ordering an ebike...no reply. I called the shop and spoke to Adam the buyer and was told that the shops affiliation with NEMBA (New England Mountain Biking Association) was falling inline with NEMBA"S avowed anti ebike stance. John from Bikesale.com called the national sales manager for Pivot explained the situation and was given permission to sell me the bike inside another Pivot dealers territory, spoke to Pivot who knew who I was,("oh your the guy from Boston that JRA does not want to sell a bikes to") they were friendly very reassuring about the purchase. Servicing the bike remains a concern, I have reached out to Landry's bikes in Newton MA they were open minded about trying to service the bike, sort of a big "we'll see what happens"
> 
> NEMBA is correct in their reading of approved riding areas for electric assisted bikes, there are very few by the book.........Reality however shows my personal experience to be anything but. I ride all the well know metro Boston trails All OF THEM. Not once not ever has anyone said anything unfriendly or regulatory in nature, I always invite strangers to try my ebike, the first 10 second test ride reactions are always the same "laughing with amusement gushing with amazement.
> 
> ...


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you have absolutely no idea how hard it has been to get trail access here in NE for mountain biking and how much of an asshat you are for not giving a **** about the real risks e-bikes pose to all mountain bike access on trails. Do you have an actual disability? No you don't. Using your age as an excuse for not being able to pedal a bike is lame. HTFU and ride. Stay strong by riding more. Don't trash JRA because they wouldn't sell you your cheater bike - they do a huge amount to support mountain biking in the Boston area and it's incredibly uncool of you to whine and cry that they wouldn't help you. That's their choice. Respect it.

PS. Maybe start thinking about the entire MTB community here in NE and not your own selfish needs and respect the laws about no motorized trail access. Go ride Foxboro or someplace that allows motors.


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## feral (Feb 10, 2007)

magic71 said:


> So here is my $1.02 on topic of e-bikes
> its very simple ....
> No one not a one person is stoping e-mtb enthusiasts to gang together and fight their way to legally access trails, who knows how easy it may go? Just ask any mountain biking advocate or trail builder from my area (New England). Go to meetings with your local ConsComs and public land managers and just quietly mention that your bicycle has a motor and let's see how well that goes over with them, lemme know how it went.
> 
> ...


/\ this. exactly this.


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## jeffreyjhsu (Jun 22, 2004)

JRA is located about a mile from the Middlesex Fells, where mountain bikers have undergone a decades long battle with a hiking group who want MTBs banned. Currently MTBs are allowed on "some" trails. Just where do you think JRA's customers would be riding e-bikes if they sold them? And just what do you think the reaction of the hiker-hate-group would be if they could argue to authorities that motorized vehicles were out on the trails?

Kudos to JRA.

They have put the best interests of the MTB community above profits.

Kudos to JRA!!!!!


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## brian jra (Mar 22, 2008)

Thank you for recognizing this. This was my only intent.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

jeffreyjhsu said:


> JRA is located about a mile from the Middlesex Fells, where mountain bikers have undergone a decades long battle with a hiking group who want MTBs banned. Currently MTBs are allowed on "some" trails. Just where do you think JRA's customers would be riding e-bikes if they sold them? And just what do you think the reaction of the hiker-hate-group would be if they could argue to authorities that motorized vehicles were out on the trails?
> 
> Kudos to JRA.
> 
> ...


 Exactly. Great support for all things mt bike. Local trail event demos and a shop tent for those always last minute fixes to go you rolling again. Present at shop rides and trail days too.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

magic71 said:


> So here is my $1.02 on topic of e-bikes
> its very simple ....
> No one not a one person is stoping e-mtb enthusiasts to gang together and fight their way to legally access trails, who knows how easy it may go? Just ask any mountain biking advocate or trail builder from my area (New England). Go to meetings with your local ConsComs and public land managers and just quietly mention that your bicycle has a motor and let's see how well that goes over with them, lemme know how it went.
> 
> ...


Makes so much sense. :thumbsup:


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## Joe_Re (Jan 10, 2011)

If a shop doesn't want to sell a particular bike, well then tough crap. JRA does not support riding E-MTBs around here and they don't have to. So sad they'll be out of business in a year or two, missing out on all those motorized vehicle sales. They also probably don't want to deal with supporting the bikes with tools and training as well as the headaches which will come with repairs when someone tries to mod it and fvcks it up.

Those who have this FU, I'll do what I want cause no one will stop me attitude are a bunch of douchebags. They are naive & selfish and have bought into the industry greed to sell overpriced toys that dealers nor manufacturers feel they have any responsibility regarding education as to the legality of where they can be ridden.

The moto riders used to have more riding opportunities, but those with that same I wanna ride here and no one is going to stop me attitude lost them access to almost everywhere.

Mountain bikers are not welcome everywhere we have access to and all it will take is some twat waffle riding where they're not supposed to to make the land manager just say F it, you're all gone, no more bikes in my jurisdiction.

If you want to ride where you are currently not allowed, then go to the lawmakers and make it happen. No one is telling you not to do that. But it's hard work and less fun than riding, so I get why no one will do that. Just don't fvck it up for everyone who does work for it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It’s a shame that all the ebike threads continue are corrupted with these arguments.

I hadn’t look at this thread recently, saw it had some action, thought it would be in topic.

Bummer.

I guess I’ll check back again in a few weeks, months, never.

I do have an opinion, it has evolved from watching the forum:

I no longer believe this forum belongs on MTBR. It is overly conflictual and I honestly believe it is not good for the “ebike” conversation.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Yep! These guys that continue to argue are just keyboard warriors. Ignorance is bliss for them...I guess!

The funny thing is, in a few years. They will have 1 (or 2) of their own, and rave about it!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Don’t go to MA to ride Ebikes. Got it. No desire.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Gutch said:


> Don't go to MA to ride Ebikes. Got it. No desire.


 Lots of new England is the same way, CT and RI. NH, VT and ME have a few more opportunities, some class 4/6 dirt type roads are everywhere. Great pedaling in so much of of the Boston area. Can do all day rides from 3 directions in the 'burbs North of Boston with a few short pavement connectors. Just leave your motor at home. Heading to KT for Nembafest this weekend. Weather looks good. Lots of great pedaling there, no motors allowed.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Oh I’m sure y’all have some good singletrack. I lived in Woodstock VT years ago. My friends from NY go to KT and love it. A guy from VT actually drove down here to SC to buy a Levo from me.


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## High Rock Ruti (Dec 4, 2017)

TIME FOR SOME HISTORY

I bought my first dirt bike a "Hodaka" at the age of 15, my older friends had to drive me to Myles Standish State park in 1970. All the single track was created by motorcyclist, stinky, smokey, noisy 2 cycle enginists. Today motorized vehicles are banned but the mountain bikers still use the same trails 50 years later. However as stated, the real world has a way of insinuating itself on regulation. The battle between park rangers and the enginists persists to this day. I ride every day, most days I never see another human more than a half mile from the parking lot. I understand both the sentiment of anti scofflaws but also the freedom of the singletrack Woodlands, I have asked and answered for myself, my old body cannot ride unassisted but ride I will. The other day I came upon a deer that spooked and ran off I stopped quietly watching when I noticed a fawn just 
a few feet ahead laying still hoping that nature's camo would hide it. It was a magical moment the fawn got to its feet and slowly walked off. That moment captures the spirit and FREEDOM of nature, free of the human artifice of opinion and the snipping of small minds. Just to be clear I stop and talk to the rangers all the time, no tickets, no confiscation, no bans. Please revisit your opinions when you reach your sixties, most will no longer be mountain biking, see you in the woods.

High-Rock-Ruti


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

High Rock Ruti said:


> Please revisit your opinions when you reach your sixties, most will no longer be mountain biking, see you in the woods.
> 
> High-Rock-Ruti


I'm turning 50 and just sold my moto to focus on pedalling my mountain bike. I have older friends all the way up to late 70's still riding mountain bikes. Nobody is interested in e-bikes. Not that they are legal around here on singletrack in any case.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

High Rock Ruti said:


> TIME FOR SOME HISTORY
> 
> I bought my first dirt bike a "Hodaka" at the age of 15, my older friends had to drive me to Myles Standish State park in 1970. All the single track was created by motorcyclist, stinky, smokey, noisy 2 cycle enginists. Today motorized vehicles are banned but the mountain bikers still use the same trails 50 years later. However as stated, the real world has a way of insinuating itself on regulation. The battle between park rangers and the enginists persists to this day. I ride every day, most days I never see another human more than a half mile from the parking lot. I understand both the sentiment of anti scofflaws but also the freedom of the singletrack Woodlands, I have asked and answered for myself, my old body cannot ride unassisted but ride I will. The other day I came upon a deer that spooked and ran off I stopped quietly watching when I noticed a fawn just
> a few feet ahead laying still hoping that nature's camo would hide it. It was a magical moment the fawn got to its feet and slowly walked off. That moment captures the spirit and FREEDOM of nature, free of the human artifice of opinion and the snipping of small minds. Just to be clear I stop and talk to the rangers all the time, no tickets, no confiscation, no bans. Please revisit your opinions when you reach your sixties, most will no longer be mountain biking, see you in the woods.
> ...


 Continue to poach? So sad. It may come back to bite you( us) later. So you can pedal, but only a little? Almost 60 here, then I just become a couch potato? Uggg. Lazy, self entitled. Nice. Guarantee we would have a conversation if we saw each other on the trails.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

High Rock Ruti said:


> TIME FOR SOME HISTORY
> 
> I bought my first dirt bike a "Hodaka" at the age of 15, my older friends had to drive me to Myles Standish State park in 1970. All the single track was created by motorcyclist, stinky, smokey, noisy 2 cycle enginists. Today motorized vehicles are banned but the mountain bikers still use the same trails 50 years later....


I'd think you, of all people, would understand why mtb'ers are against e-bikes. I grew up on moto too. I'd like to buy a nice enduro KTM, but I can't justify it b/c there's no off-road access here...much of it b/c a few asshats abused the privilege and got us banned from all access.

But, instead, you use at some bizarre justification to poach and break the law (and possibly endanger access for all of us).

And good for JRA; it seems rare for a business to forego $$$$ for principles. I hope everyone in the MA area buys from them.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

smartyiak said:


> I'd think you, of all people, would understand why mtb'ers are against e-bikes. I grew up on moto too. I'd like to buy a nice enduro KTM, but I can't justify it b/c there's no off-road access here...much of it b/c a few asshats abused the privilege and got us banned from all access.
> 
> But, instead, you use at some bizarre justification to poach and break the law (and possibly endanger access for all of us).
> 
> And good for JRA; it seems rare for a business to forego $$$$ for principles. I hope everyone in the MA area buys from them.


Only "some" mtbrs are against Ebikes. Everyone I know and have ridden with owns them. New England has a strong stance against them, but just a drop in the bucket.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Gutch said:


> Only "some" mtbrs are against Ebikes. Everyone I know and have ridden with owns them. New England has a strong stance against them, but just a drop in the bucket.


True...I should have been more articulate. I think "many" (or even most) MTBRs aren't against e-bikes(me included), provided that the user follows the allowable trail access rules. I would hope all e-mtbrs would be as well...but that's obviously not the case.

Related to this thread: OP was purchasing a trail e-bike to be used in a region where it appears there's no e-bike trail access and has already stated he uses the e-bike and places it's not allowed which, I believe, is why there's any anti-emtb position at all.

EDIT: It wasn't OP, but Ruti who wrote that he was poaching. My bad.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Completely agree. I would not ride mine anywhere that could jeopardize mtbrs. First and foremost, mtbs were here first.


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## Linktung (Oct 22, 2014)

Gutch said:


> Completely agree. I would not ride mine anywhere that could jeopardize mtbrs. First and foremost, mtbs were here first.


How could it possibly have a negative effect on mtbers? If someone is riding a pedelec "illegally" then banning nonpedelecs makes zero sense. You are going to somehow discourage "illegal" bike usage by banning a different style of bicycle?

If someone needs to ride a pedelec then the only rational approach is to ride it. If you want to contribute to mtbike access then please donate to a good cause like STC. Don't let these fools who have imagined an access issue keep you from living the life you want to live.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I just ride mine where they are currently accepted. That's all. I enjoy our ebikes. It's a fun sport. I also enjoy my mtb and also ride that where it is legal.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Linktung said:


> How could it possibly have a negative effect on mtbers? If someone is riding a pedelec "illegally" then banning nonpedelecs makes zero sense. You are going to somehow discourage "illegal" bike usage by banning a different style of bicycle?
> 
> If someone needs to ride a pedelec then the only rational approach is to ride it. If you want to contribute to mtbike access then please donate to a good cause like STC. Don't let these fools who have imagined an access issue keep you from living the life you want to live.


 The fact that they look alike and a land manager could ban all wheels? And it's bikes vs motorized vehicles. E bikes have motors. Needs to ride for what? Cuz they are out of shape? Hmmm, no go. It's not an imagined access issue. Mt bikes are not allowed everywhere in MA and still fighting for more access. And getting booted off in some areas. Bike magazine did an article about the Ware river watershed in Central MA. Tough stuff there. E bikes are part of living the life you want to live? Seems kind of a stretch at best. E bikes are a quality of life issue? Please.


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## Linktung (Oct 22, 2014)

Cite some examples of pedelecs being banned because they different, then later leading to nonpedelecs being banned because they are the same.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

E bike are not allowed for the most part in MA, save for 6 or so areas. Keep fishing.


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## Linktung (Oct 22, 2014)

If you don't understand the question, don't reply to it.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Linktung said:


> If you don't understand the question, don't reply to it.


 Familiar with the history of motos in MA as well as the past 30 years of mt bike advocacy here? Start there. It's a long read.


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## Linktung (Oct 22, 2014)

It doesn't even have to be an example from MA. Anywhere in the world banned bicycles because of pedelecs?


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Linktung said:


> It doesn't even have to be an example from MA. Anywhere in the world banned bicycles because of pedelecs?


 Since post #30 this has been about MA and e bikes poaching. Start there. Really.


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## Linktung (Oct 22, 2014)

leeboh said:


> Since post #30 this has been about MA and e bikes poaching. Start there. Really.


Sure show me an example from MA.


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## Linktung (Oct 22, 2014)

The crickets speaks volumes.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Linktung said:


> It doesn't even have to be an example from MA. Anywhere in the world banned bicycles because of pedelecs?





Linktung said:


> Sure show me an example from MA.





Linktung said:


> The crickets speaks volumes.


Oh, i get it: b/c it hasn't happened yet, means it never will. By all means then:disregard everyone else, bc you're special, and continue to break the law!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

smartyiak said:


> Oh, i get it: b/c it hasn't happened yet, means it never will. By all means then:disregard everyone else, bc you're special, and continue to break the law!


Posting about poaching used to be verboten in this forum. Now it's okay. Doesn't take long before thumb throttles and de-restricted motors are legit.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Linktung said:


> It doesn't even have to be an example from MA. Anywhere in the world banned bicycles because of pedelecs?


 I'm going for the ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure. Really , when the trails get closed it will be too late.


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## GT58 (Mar 20, 2017)

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