# Not quite ready for a hardtail : Really short travel aggressive geometry?



## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Looking for a XL FS frameset that has 100mm or less of travel but has aggressive geometry. 500mm + reach & a seat tube less than 19". I know there are quite a few trail bikes w/ these spec's but I am looking for XC efficiency. I already have an older Process 111 but it pedals like a longer travel bike. Thanks.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

You are ready for a hardtail. Just go for it.  🤘🤘


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

^^ That's what I'm thinking. A hardtail with big fat rubber aired down to a reasonable pressure IS a short travel FS bike. Jump in, the water is nice.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

keen said:


> Looking for a XL FS frameset that has *100mm or less of travel but has aggressive geometry. 500mm + reach & a seat tube less than 19". *I know there are quite a few trail bikes w/ these spec's but I am looking for XC efficiency. I already have an older Process 111 but it pedals like a longer travel bike. Thanks.


Doesn't exist that I'm aware of. Anything with 100mm or less travel is going to have XC geometry.

Transition Spur probably comes the closest with 120/120. (for XC/endurance racing 120mm is the new 100mm. You're not giving up much efficiency there.) Transition Bikes

Banshee Phantom maybe? 115 rear. https://www.bansheebikes.com/phantom-v3

SC Tallboy- https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/bikes/tallboy

I also don't disagree with the comment about an All Mountain hardtail like the Kona Honzo ESD or Chromag or something along those lines with a 140-160mm fork. There are a LOT of aggressive hardtails in this category. Pretty fun setup!


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

The Rocky Mountain Element has a 65 HTA and a 500+ reach in XL...but it's got 20mm more rear travel than what you want.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

I have been researching the Kona ESD and On-One "Hello Dave" - great spec's. I have ridden my brothers large Kona Honzo ST mullet 29 / 27.5 (Exact same geometry as my Process 111). My 54 y.o. bones felt a little beat up after a ride and any aggressive trails bring apprehension. I rode it around the block when he had a 27.5 x 2.8 rear tire and it felt quite slow compared to the usual 2.35 tire.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

keen said:


> I have been researching the Kona ESD and On-One "Hello Dave" - great spec's. I have ridden my brothers large Kona Honzo ST mullet 29 / 27.5 (Exact same geometry as my Process 111). My 54 y.o. bones felt a little beat up after a ride and any aggressive trails bring apprehension. I rode it around the block when he had a 27.5 x 2.8 rear tire and it felt quite slow compared to the usual 2.35 tire.


I'm riding a couple different HTs with 29 x 2.6" & 2.8" tires. Not as comfy as a FS, but if you pick your lines and ride light I don't find I get punished. I'm closing in on 53 and our trails are steep/rooty/rocky.

Selecting a compliant frame is important. You can ride 3 different HTs and come away thinking totally different things about how rough the trail was.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Here's your short travel, and you can have them build the rest to your specs.








soft tail, YBB, 29 inch wheels, Moots, titanium xc, titanium bikes


Legendary Moots YBB unit in a capable cross country platform. 29'' wheels for the ultimate cross country combination. YBB micro suspension.



moots.com


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

A short travel XC bike with long, low, slack geo.

If it were me, I 'd short stroke a 29er FS frame or add spacers to reduce travel, same with the fork, then call it a day.

GG Pistola, Canfield Tilt, etc ...


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> A short travel XC bike with long, low, slack geo.
> 
> If it were me, I 'd short stroke a 29er FS frame or add spacers to reduce travel, same with the fork, then call it a day.
> 
> GG Pistola, Canfield Tilt, etc ...


I have already done this to my Process. 115mm Fox 34, LV sleeved air shock running 20% sag & offset eyelet bushing. Probably a more modern frame would give better results though.


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## EpicMTB2008 (Mar 29, 2021)

Ibis Exie?


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Mondraker F-Podium DC in XL would be nice but the reach is only 490mm


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Scott Spark RC has 501 XL reach. Twin lock lever to lock the front and rear suspension.


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## dc40 (Oct 4, 2013)

Intense Sniper XL... 67.5 w/ 100m,reach @ 490mm or 66.5 w/ 120M reach @ 480.3mm


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Thanx for the XC frame suggestions unfortunately the seat tube lengths are too long for my liking.


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## Grinchy8 (Jul 6, 2021)

Never mind wrong bike


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

I second the notion of buying a 120 or 130 bike and adding a bunch of spacers if you want an aggressive geo bike with 100mm travel.
I don't think you want that, but that would be the best option to get there.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

The bike you want simply doesn't exist. Slack frames will pedal like long travel bikes regardless of how much travel they have, it's just how the geometry works together. 
Your best bet is to find a Transition Spur, Trek Top Fuel, or Rocky Mountain Element, and just have a bike that is a modern version of your Process. 

I'm not sure what you mean about not being ready for a hardtail, they're not as rough as you think, especially if you go with steel. Kona Honzo, Chromag, etc. Will be a lot more fun and have a much shorter chainstay than any short travel FS rig.

On the other hand, if you have too slack of a short travel bike, it will handle weird, and you'll lose the benefits in the climbs. Good climbing comes from light weight frames and XC geometry. The bikes I listed above are aggressive XC bikes, just 120 has replaced 100 for most brands, and 100 or less will be on 70* HTA race rigs.


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

keen said:


> Looking for a XL FS frameset that has 100mm or less of travel but has aggressive geometry. 500mm + reach & a seat tube less than 19". I know there are quite a few trail bikes w/ these spec's but I am looking for XC efficiency. I already have an older Process 111 but it pedals like a longer travel bike. Thanks.


What about a Ripley or Ripley AF in XL? 120mm travel but suspension kinematics with it's high anti squat gives it a firmer pedaling platform and you get modern geometry though not something I would call crazy aggressive slack.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

CannondaleF9 said:


> The bike you want simply doesn't exist. Slack frames will pedal like long travel bikes regardless of how much travel they have, it's just how the geometry works together.
> Your best bet is to find a Transition Spur, Trek Top Fuel, or Rocky Mountain Element, and just have a bike that is a modern version of your Process.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean about not being ready for a hardtail, they're not as rough as you think, especially if you go with steel. Kona Honzo, Chromag, etc. Will be a lot more fun and have a much shorter chainstay than any short travel FS rig.
> ...


Slack is not on my priority list - Long reach & short seat tube. I have spent years on ill fitting bikes. If I wanted any reach I was stuck w/ an XXL with a 23" ST length. I agree the bike might not exist and a more modern version of my Process might be the best fit. I will probably ride my brother's Honzo ST again and feel out ht HT again. Thanks.


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## gerryl (Aug 10, 2014)

keen said:


> I have been researching the Kona ESD and On-One "Hello Dave" - great spec's. I have ridden my brothers large Kona Honzo ST mullet 29 / 27.5 (Exact same geometry as my Process 111). My 54 y.o. bones felt a little beat up after a ride and any aggressive trails bring apprehension. I rode it around the block when he had a 27.5 x 2.8 rear tire and it felt quite slow compared to the usual 2.35 tire.


You probably already know this, but for hardtail info, Steve is an aficionado for all things sans rear travel. His channel https://www.youtube.com/c/hardtailparty


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## cvbrewer (Sep 9, 2020)

Trance 29 is 130F/115R with 66.5 head tube angle.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

keen said:


> I have already done this to my Process. 115mm Fox 34, LV sleeved air shock running 20% sag & offset eyelet bushing. Probably a more modern frame would give better results though.


yeah, the 111 was a good bike in it’s day, but the new bikes make batter on the concept.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> yeah, the 111 was a good bike in it’s day, but the new bikes make batter on the concept.


If I was swinging that way I’d get another Pistola, it’s got everything you’re asking for and it’s made domestically.

Add a Ribbon SL and non reservoir shock, keep it light and flickable, it’d be a fun bike.

Nice thing about GG bikes is you can change out suspension down the road to make it 27.5 or longer travel, two head cup heights and two head cup lengths offer great adjustability.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> If I was swinging that way I’d get another Pistola, it’s got everything you’re asking for and it’s made domestically.
> 
> Add a Ribbon SL and non reservoir shock, keep it light and flickable, it’d be a fun bike.
> 
> Nice thing about GG bikes is you can change out suspension down the road to make it 27.5 or longer travel, two head cup heights and two head cup lengths offer great adjustability.


While true, the pistol no longer shares a rear design with the rest of them. How long that'll be the case, I've no clue. Basically, if rears are available you're gonna need new wheels. So, down the road? Maybe.


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## centershot (Nov 21, 2008)

Was thinking the same way as you, short travel, fast rolling - then the local shop had this Honzo still in the box. I jumped in and have really enjoyed it. I was thinking I was too old for a hardtail (53) but this thing has been more fun than a barrel of monkeys. Wheelies, jumps, just acting like I'm 20 again has been a blast. It's been a long time since I could stand and hammer out a climb (FS bikes for the last 10 years) - this bike just rips.


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## Eric_S (Apr 9, 2021)

Depends on your budget. Might consider Canyon Lux Trail (they market it as XC).
Lux Trail


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Revel Ranger 115mm, XL 498mm reach 18" ST.

XC efficiency beyond any hardtail setup.


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## crgcrmny (Jun 20, 2019)

Spot Ryve 100 and 115 are fantastic bikes


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

The Ibis Exie looks good for reach in XL (519mm), but the ST is 20". (120/100)
Rocky Mountain Element; XL 505mm reach, 18.9" ST (130/120)
Transition Spur; XL 510mm reach, 19.6" ST (120/120)

From what I've seen, that's about what you'll get for those numbers.


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

I just raced my Ibis DV9 for the first time, using a 100mm fork and a 25mm suspension post. It also holds 2.6" tires, so it was a better choice than a heavy full-suspension bike.


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## office (Aug 8, 2007)

cvbrewer said:


> Trance 29 is 130F/115R with 66.5 head tube angle.


This thread has been good reading. I'm taking a hard look at the Trance 29 - I'm trying to buy one bike to replace two. I have a carbon hardtail and a 150mm trail bike, problem is both are 8-10 years old now with 10 years of use on them both.

Probably asking too much from a bike but I want a short travel XC bike that can kinda do bike park stuff. The thing is, I'm not super competitive XC racer (I race a handful of sport-class and endurance events a year) and I don't do much beyond blue lines at Snow Summit/Skypark/Mammoth.

Seems like all these new slack alloy 130mm-front/120mm-rear FS seem to be the ticket.

I'd just prefer to have one bike - one position, one bike to go over maintenance, and I can put a little more $$$ into it. The hardtail is annoying to race because I don't particularly enjoy riding it outside of XC races so everytime I get on it I have to replace the sealant and get used to the position.

The other contender is the Marin Rift Zone 3. Third might be the Santa Cruz Tallboy.

Who knows what will be in stock though.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

office said:


> This thread has been good reading. I'm taking a hard look at the Trance 29 - I'm trying to buy one bike to replace two. I have a carbon hardtail and a 150mm trail bike, problem is both are 8-10 years old now with 10 years of use on them both.
> 
> Probably asking too much from a bike but I want a short travel XC bike that can kinda do bike park stuff. The thing is, I'm not super competitive XC racer (I race a handful of sport-class and endurance events a year) and I don't do much beyond blue lines at Snow Summit/Skypark/Mammoth.
> 
> ...


If you’re looking to do park, the Tallboy is probably your best option. 
The Rocky Mountain Element and Trek Top Fuel are also new, and would be good for multi discipline riding, at least up to flow trails.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Ventana El Rey with Level 2 Custom Build.





El Rey | Ventana







ventanausa.com


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## office (Aug 8, 2007)

CannondaleF9 said:


> If you’re looking to do park, the Tallboy is probably your best option.
> The Rocky Mountain Element and Trek Top Fuel are also new, and would be good for multi discipline riding, at least up to flow trails.


I'll add these two to the list - Rocky Mountain says there is some dealers in my area but I had sort of written them off because I barely ever see any in person. Like, they may technically have dealers but dealers don't stock too many bikes or something. If anyone has any SoCal experience I'll take it though.

Trek looks interesting- plus I got a nearby Trek store

Last option is the Canyon Neuron - easily the price point winner. Another SRAM bike but whatever. I'm between sizes though. My last two bikes I fit comfortably on an XL but every sizing chart nowadays has me on a large. I really want to buy in person because of this. I'm a weird body type - 6'0 with long, long legs.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

office said:


> I'll add these two to the list - Rocky Mountain says there is some dealers in my area but I had sort of written them off because I barely ever see any in person. Like, they may technically have dealers but dealers don't stock too many bikes or something. If anyone has any SoCal experience I'll take it though.
> 
> Trek looks interesting- plus I got a nearby Trek store
> 
> Last option is the Canyon Neuron - easily the price point winner. Another SRAM bike but whatever. I'm between sizes though. My last two bikes I fit comfortably on an XL but every sizing chart nowadays has me on a large. I really want to buy in person because of this. I'm a weird body type - 6'0 with long, long legs.


I suggest looking around at your local bike shops to see what's in stock, that will be your best bet of finding a bike that fits you and your budget, without needing to wait another year to order one. Many shops have already ordered bikes for next summer. 

As for the Canyon, that would be a good option if none of your shops had a bike in stock, and there was on online that was close enough to your preferred size. I would much rather buy a bike from a shop, however.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Funk La Ruta.


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## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

Alchemy Arktos is 519 mm reach and 19.29" seat tube. 130/120.


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## hollistic45 (Jun 4, 2011)

I've been on most of the options people mention in this thread and the RM Element is the bike IMO, this thing rules. Pinkbike just did a review of all of these options and they mostly agreed.


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## GeePhroh (Jan 13, 2004)

dysfunction said:


> While true, the pistol no longer shares a rear design with the rest of them. How long that'll be the case, I've no clue. Basically, if rears are available you're gonna need new wheels. So, down the road? Maybe.


The current version of the trail pistol is on the same platform as the rest of GG's line. I got mine last fall as a compliment to my giant, powder-ski knolly warden, and it's been a really fun and surprisingly capable bike. 

There's lots of great options in the short-travel category these days, though -- hard to go really wrong.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

hollistic45 said:


> I've been on most of the options people mention in this thread and the RM Element is the bike IMO, this thing rules. Pinkbike just did a review of all of these options and they mostly agreed.


You waited 10 years to post and when you do it's about the awesomeness of the RM Element!?

Not going to argue with that.  

Seriously though, the Element sounds pretty awesome.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

office said:


> Probably asking too much from a bike but I want a short travel XC bike that can kinda do bike park stuff. The thing is, I'm not super competitive XC racer (I race a handful of sport-class and endurance events a year) and I don't do much beyond blue lines at Snow Summit/Skypark/Mammoth.


Any modern XC bike will do just fine. Bonus if it is actually one of those modern geo 120mm type bikes (Spark, Sniper, etc).

I spent a couple hours doing runs down Snow Valley on my XC hardtail (Pivot Les) after a Rim Nordic race.


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## zvonler (Jun 22, 2010)

wrightcs77 said:


> Alchemy Arktos is 519 mm reach and 19.29" seat tube. 130/120.


I've been riding a large Arktos 135 and liking it as a trail bike. The 120 is the same frame, and it's way overbuilt for XC, as well as having a very active suspension design at the top of the travel (they call it "Sine"), so it isn't the most efficient pedaler. Definitely has the long and slack thing down though. On the roughest, fastest stuff I ride it feels like it's just getting started. Mine is the XT build and weighs 32lbs with Assegai/Dissector.


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