# Good trail ready 24" MTB for greens and blues. Moving up from a Woom 4.



## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

So my 5 year old just outgrew his Earlyrider Belter 16" (seat post is at the limit). My 7.5 year old fits fine on his 20" Woom 4, but instead of buying a second 20" bike, I'm thinking of putting the 5 year old on the Woom and getting a 24" for the older boy so he can ride with me on trails as well as riding to school everyday. Nothing crazy, but greens and some blues at the local bike parks. I'd like to get a suspension fork to handle the gravel trails on the levy's down here in Florida too. Disc brakes would be nice as well.

We tried a levy trail with the boys and the earlyrider shook so bad we had to turn around. We even knocked the headset loose in the gravel.


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

Do you have a budget in mind? 

Most everything in the lower cost realm is going to be almost identical in components and weight. But, then things escalate really quickly going for a higher performance bike with actual usable suspension.

Used is always the best option for kids bikes IMO, especially considering how easy it usually is to find lightly used mainstream bikes for cheap.


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## JCKID58 (Nov 20, 2017)

For us budget and the actual riding the bike is going to be used for is always the main consideration. I agree if you can find a used bike that fits your needs it will be cheaper. The higher end real MTB's were impossible to find used for me locally. If my kids were just riding around the neighborhood or bike paths they would be on Walmart bikes because they work just fine for that. There is the $400 to $600 price range from the big brands, Specialized etc. that pop up a lot used but in my opinion really need some work for real off road riding, but work well enough for most kids and that is just an opinion. Sometimes by the time you upgrade a used bike you could have just bought new and saved the hassle. If budget is not an issue go for a Trailcraft or even an Isla Pro series. I wouldn't want my kid riding it to school though, too many thieves out there. We went with an Orbea MX 24 Trail. I was also interested in the Prevelo but they were out of stock. I think, again just one guys opinion, the Orbea is possibly the best buy out there right now in the 24' wheeled bikes. We swapped the crank out for shorter set and put Rocket Rons on it and that's all I think it needs. It is reasonably light at 24 lbs. now, well built with solid components and the new Suntour fork seems to work really well.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Cool that you are getting into it! Lots of options and its tricky to get something right off the shelf that is ideal. Good news is that you have more than one kid that's going to ride the bike so pricing isn't as painful. I'd start with the Trail Craft Christmas build. Its is a pretty dang nice bike and discounted to 1299.00. It seems like a lot but your kid will now keep up easily due to proper cranks, super light weight and above average fork while not having weirdo geometry. The price pain goes away quickly once your kid starts crushing trails. The gearing will be dialed in for climbing and anything else as well (very few bikes are geared well enough). Typically you go from a 27lb bike down to 22.5lbs. Massive weight savings when you factor in that they are a kid (or adult). Another nice bike is the Spawn YJ (1100$ & 25-26lbs I think) but its close enough in cost to the TC and doesn't have the right crank size that you are better off dropping the extra 100-200$. Prevelo Zulu 4 (900$) also nice and a bit cheaper with appropriate cranks...really nice option there! Isla Creig Pro series are dope but over 2k and not worth it relative to the Trail Craft. Lot of the other isla bike stuff is glorified neighborhood bikes and not worth the dough imo.

On the slightly more budget friendly side, there are few options. The Orbea 24 MX (750$) Trail is decent but 27lbs is heavy and I think you still have to swap cranks. Air fork is decent too. They can be hard to find too IIRC. The Norco Charger 4.1 is good, decent air fork hydraulics etc. I think its about same weight as Orbea tho and the gearing kind of sucks and still has 155mm long cranks...probably stick with Orbea at that price.

Another route that I really like if you can't swing the dough for the TrailCraft is to get into a nice rigid plus bike with hydraulic brakes and decent weight. I haven't done a ton of digging on them but the Cannondale Cujo is a GREAT place to start and maybe the best. The tires are 2.6in (better than heavy 3in behemoths), the cranks are sized well and the components aren't half bad. 500$ and maybe you can swing a deal. The 20in version was reportedly fairly light at 22lbs...perhaps this is also on the lighter side as well. For like 30$ you can swap out the silly twist shifter too and away you go!

Cujo 24 | Cannondale Bicycles

I'm sure there are other options but this is just off the top of my head so take it with a grain of salt. I do really think that TrailCraft bike is the way to go at that price. Especially with two kids. My kids (6,3) work and save money to help fun their bike purchase via a savings envelope (not the 3yro yet) and grand parents have thrown down a bit for birthdays too lessen the wallet hit. We ride Spawn 16" and 20" right now and will be doing a light build of a 24in Transition Ripcord next year or so. More expensive but after seeing what the nicer bikes did for their ability to run greens, blues, blacks and climb decently...it was a stark reminder than a better bike really opens up more trails, you ride a lot more/further and they enjoy it with more confidence.

Opinion: Regardless, DO NOT buy the garbage spring fork nonsense (6lbs?) and further perpetuate the ruse they are selling to our kids. Its literally marketing garbage at its best to sell bikes and nothing else useful. We shouldn't support that kind of practice with our dollars.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

Having just spent more time, energy and $$ than I care to admit on 24" bikes, and then watching my twins ride real terrain, I can wholeheartedly say it's worth the money to stretch the budget on a 24" bike. They will ride farter/faster and with more confidence. It really will open up tons of possibilities for them. Which means YOU will have more fun when riding with them. And it just feeds off itself. If you want to boost enthusiasm with your kids. Spend the $$. This presumes they already enjoy bike play.

I agree with Svinyard's analysis. The Trailcraft Christmas build or even perhaps the Christmas build with a rigid fork and oversized frt tire would be the absolute best bang for the buck. For a high quality, capable and lightweight bike. It has the right gearing, the right size cranks, the right geometry and a careful component spec.

In the mid range, I would also throw out the idea of a Cleary Meerkat. For a neighborhood kid who also rides dirt on the side, it's not a bad value. But you will need to swap to a trigger shifter. And the gear range is limited.

The Orbea MX 24 (any model) is great because it has good geometry. But it will require some mods (shorter stem, shorter 140mm cranks at a minimum). That bike will send you down the rabbit hole of mods. Because the frame is the best part of the bike. If that's your thing, go for it.


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

Thanks for the info! I don't really have a budget in mind. The woom was $450 and he got 6 months out of it. But little brother will get a couple more years from it. I figure a 24" bike will last the kids from 7 to 12 years old, that's a lot of use.

It will sit outside while he's in school. But the school locks the gates during school hours so doubtful it'll get stolen.

I'll see if I can't swing the trail craft, but a $700 bike would be a lot better on the wallet. I hate the idea of buying new cranks right off the bat for the orbea, plus I have to deal with a local bike shop (yuck).

I'll look into the cannondale too, I ride one and he might want to match daddy's bike. $500 would be easier to buy. What kind of suspension fork could I add to it down the road? It's cable discs, but better than v-brakes.


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## JCKID58 (Nov 20, 2017)

The Orbeas are not hard to find. They do not have the dealer network of a Specialized or Trek but they are easily available. The Orbea is $729.00 from Jenson, which is MSRP, free shipping. In general considerably cheaper at dealers. I found one for $650 but it was 3.5 hours away. The other dealers I called were all under $700. I received a build sheet with weight from Jenson it was a hair under 26 lbs. as delivered. After different cranks and R.R. tires were swapped brought it to 24 lbs. almost on the money. Yes I weighed it not a random number I made up.


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

zimm said:


> Thanks for the info! I don't really have a budget in mind. The woom was $450 and he got 6 months out of it. But little brother will get a couple more years from it. I figure a 24" bike will last the kids from 7 to 12 years old, that's a lot of use.
> 
> It will sit outside while he's in school. But the school locks the gates during school hours so doubtful it'll get stolen.
> 
> ...


You could do a Isla Beinn 24, then throw a RST F1rst air fork on it in the future. Eventual about $800 complete, but you're looking at a roughly 22 lb bike once you get the suspension fork on it.


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

I just measured the kid's inseam. Between 21.5 and 22". TC says 24" minimum inseam for their 24.

The isla bikes beinn calls for 22.5" which is closer to his size, but it's a city bike like his woom. The creig 24 looks a lot beefier, but double the price. Calls for 23" inseam.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

jestep said:


> You could do a Isla Beinn 24, then throw a RST F1rst air fork on it in the future. Eventual about $800 complete, but you're looking at a roughly 22 lb bike once you get the suspension fork on it.


I think that is a nice bike but its not a mountain bike (respectfully). Also that's a lot of money without hydraulic disk brakes (has V brakes), poor gearing/components and basically 1.45in road tires. I personally would avoid that bike entirely for doing blue runs etc. Their own liability statement (from their website) below is caution enough.

**This bike has been designed to be ridden by kids on smooth paved, grassy, or dirt surfaces with moderate gradients. It is not intended for any kind of jumping.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

zimm said:


> I just measured the kid's inseam. Between 21.5 and 22". TC says 24" minimum inseam for their 24.
> 
> The isla bikes beinn calls for 22.5" which is closer to his size, but it's a city bike like his woom. The creig 24 looks a lot beefier, but double the price. Calls for 23" inseam.


Be damned with inseam stuff unless your kid can't ride yet (within reason). I would absolutely ignore that for now and go with the TC. Inseam just isn't that important as long as your kid is within reasonable range...especially with the bike being light and it's winter.

Quick edit, how tall is your kid? I'm assuming he is a decent rider already?


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

48" tall. As long as he get his toes down with the seat bottomed, we'll be good. Both boys are "good" riders. They ride to and from school with me everyday so they get lots of sidewalk time. They've done 4 miles without complaining on paved paths. My 7 year old works the grip shift 8 on the woom and front/rear hand brakes just fine. He is now working on skid marks in the driveway.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

zimm said:


> 48" tall. As long as he get his toes down with the seat bottomed, we'll be good. Both boys are "good" riders. They ride to and from school with me everyday so they get lots of sidewalk time. They've done 4 miles without complaining on paved paths. My 7 year old works the grip shift 8 on the woom and front/rear hand brakes just fine. He is now working on skid marks in the driveway.


Gotcha, I he'd be fine the trail craft in my opinion. Yeah it'll be a little on the big size, but man there are some kids on here riding big (but light) bikes for XC racing and stuff that seem to do more than fine.


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

I got the TC winter build sitting in my shopping cart. Now to sleep on it for the weekend before dropping $1300!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

zimm said:


> I got the TC winter build sitting in my shopping cart. Now to sleep on it for the weekend before dropping $1300!


You should put a call into them and chat with them. Great people (I'm my limited experience) and they'll give you the full scoop on any concerns/questions. Hard to go wrong tho with that bike.

Next up is building some ramps, skinnys and drop trainers!


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## MidnightFattie (Jun 13, 2017)

First, off - you are an awesome dad for doing this for your child. He is a lucky kid!

I would say to consider getting your kid a BMX bike. You could get him a 24" to grow into, or a 20" or even an 18" for now. BMX bikes are great value in comparison to kids MTB. They are lighter, too, which is key for the little dude. Even a 20lb bike is the equivalent of you or I riding an 80-100 lb bike. Light bikes encourage more playfulness. But moreover, he'll learn how to ride standing. 

If you put your kid on a MTB with big wheels and a high seat, he'll spend most of his time just sitting and plowing over stuff. It's not as conducive to skills development as a bike where he is standing. Kids need to get comfortable standing, then learn how to lift each wheel, then learn how to bunny hop. This doesn't really happen on a large bike with a high seat. 

The advent of the dropper post has taught us all just how much easier it is move around on your bike when the seat is out of the way. It really hampers things when the bike is setup for road miles, with a high seat. This is why you find roadies who have been riding 1000s of miles a year for decades and they can't even bunny hop. 

Of the guys I ride with, the ones that started off on BMX bikes are the dudes who have skills and playful fun on their bike, even if they are in their 40s like me. The guys that didn't ride BMX (usually coming to MTB from being a roadie) usually don't have those skills, though they can hammer like mad and still ride fast over moderately difficult stuff. I know these are gross generalizations, but that's been my experience. 

There's other stuff that is cool about riding BMX. It's single speed, so you are put into positions where you must mash, or must spin, and this makes you stronger. Rigid fork is also good, the little dude will learn how to read the trail out of necessity. 

So rather than dumping 1200 on a kids MTB, I'd say - get him a 18" BMX for riding to school, and get him a 24" BMX that with a QR seat that can be raised high enough for peeling off some road miles, but can be lowered when you hit the trail. Save the 500-700 you'll have left over for some trips to the nearest BMX track, and of course, a cruiser BMX for Dad, for those track days!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

In reference to the poster above, I say get both . Framed Impact 18 (free wheel and hand brake) is only 99$ last time I checked. Great development bike for the local skate park, pump track and neighborhood/school.


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## mossterioso (Sep 5, 2009)

*Sounds Similar*

My son is 8 and since he was 6 he has been riding both, a mountain bike (20 inch Commencal) and a 16 inch wheeled Redline Pitboss(BMX) that he rides at the skatepark and around the neighborhood. The small wheels allow him to really get creative on that bike. He bunny hops and does jump turns and sends it on dirt jumps. I put taller bars on it and longer cranks so it fits his body better. Your son would probably still benefit from the smaller wheels. Every kid his age and a bit older loves to ride that bike.


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

He doesn’t need a bmx. By park I meant a mountain bike trail park that has off road trails (green through black diamond). No ramps or jumps, he’s much too timid for that.


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## mossterioso (Sep 5, 2009)

Gotcha, well your on the right path with the TC, I'm certain it will have a pure positive result on his riding and his love for it!


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

zimm said:


> I got the TC winter build sitting in my shopping cart. Now to sleep on it for the weekend before dropping $1300!


It's a pretty good bike but for me a few niggles rather than things NEED changing.
Its got the heavier (bit still pretty decent) wheels and Acera brakes and a few niggles of things that are decent but not what I'd choose for various reasons.

(Reason for Brakes is they are bottom loading for pads.. and my life is busy so I find he goes through brake pads unnoticed until were on the trails ... makes them a lot more involved to do a bleed etc. etc.

Wheels are obviously a endless pit.. there are carbon 24" wheels with Ti spokes... vs really rubbish with the bike and TX has the Stans on its higher end but not on here... The Stans with the Novatec hubs hit a value point (for me) ...even my 8yr old can seat them tubeless with just a track pump... TC don't sell any rubbish but the Crest are $75 retail vs a cheaper rim at say $30 (just a guess..) but IMHO not worth the compromise unless its pushing over and absolute price.

So all that said ...

My philosophy is either buy the bike you'd build OR buy cheap and then build/replace.
This seems especially true for kids... because there is the dept store trash, then mid-range then the >$1000

There is little difference in frame QUALITY/WEIGHT between mid range and >$1000
There are difference sin geometry... but the mid range bike will be over specified for kids weights because its built from tubing made for adults... strip off the components and all the alu hard tails weigh very similar and even a Ti frame is only saving the weight of an inner tube or certainly less than a tyre....

About 90% of the weight is components..(90% is just to illustrate). and that might be 85% or it might be 95% but its pretty minor... I personally don't want to pay for lower mid range components (Acera/Alivio etc.) because they are not what I'd fit but still expensive enough you're paying for them... much better pulling off a load of bottom end Tourney quality if its going in the bin ... and most of the individual low/mid components are not worth selling unless you get very cheap post or have a local place. You can buy a new Tourney rear mech for example for not much more than the cost of postage...

On a UK forum I know someone stripped one of the better "supermarket" 24 bikes.. 
The frame was actually slightly lighter than a big name brand... someone else weighed... not by much but had it been 10g heavier would that have mattered either ???

So if your SURE your kid is going to progress past green and really stick with it... I'd look at the TC with Deore M6000 Spec... and the Stans wheels in the TC... if you're not then I'd say get a used bike reasonably cheap you can either resell.. if they either end up MAD for MTB or not into it... or upgrade in a shorter term

Last thing I'd worry about is the square taper ... the only disadvantage really is weight of the BB... but its not huge compared to external... and if you start at 140 the chance is you'll then need some 150-ish before they outgrown the bike!

So my summary is for the long list above... either go a bit higher if you KNOW they will progress or get a used one and see how it goes...

Just my 2c....


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

zimm said:


> He doesn't need a bmx. By park I meant a mountain bike trail park that has off road trails (green through black diamond). No ramps or jumps, he's much too timid for that.


Reading this makes me really wonder why in the world you would feel the need to spend $1300 on a bike; sound like an incredible amount of overkill. My son was literally jumping over cars by age 8 and clearing 45' step-ups on double-black DH trails by 11 and I've never had to spend anywhere near that much on a bike for him (until he discovered throttles that is).

If you've got the money to burn, more power to you, but if not, I don't see any good reason you should feel the need to spend that much at this point for simple mellow trail riding.


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> Reading this makes me really wonder why in the world you would feel the need to spend $1300 on a bike; sound like an incredible amount of overkill. My son was literally jumping over cars by age 8 and clearing 45' step-ups on double-black DH trails by 11 and I've never had to spend anywhere near that much on a bike for him (until he discovered throttles that is).
> 
> If you've got the money to burn, more power to you, but if not, I don't see any good reason you should feel the need to spend that much at this point for simple mellow trail riding.


Recommend a bike then. I'd rather not spend $1300.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

slapheadmofo said:


> Reading this makes me really wonder why in the world you would feel the need to spend $1300 on a bike; sound like an incredible amount of overkill. My son was literally jumping over cars by age 8 and clearing 45' step-ups on double-black DH trails by 11 and I've never had to spend anywhere near that much on a bike for him (until he discovered throttles that is).
> 
> If you've got the money to burn, more power to you, but if not, I don't see any good reason you should feel the need to spend that much at this point for simple mellow trail riding.


That's awesome for your kid. But at the same time, some of us can, and want to do whatever we can to help our kids ride further with more control.

We all know that kid who, for example, can do 360's on a POS hand me down bike. Remember, that kid is the exception. And even that kid could benefit from a better bike.

Taking it down to a regular kid with regular skills and strength. A better bike can make a huge difference for the kid and the parent.


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## Kingfisher2011 (Nov 1, 2011)

For your price range, the Orbea... all the way. I had some extra cash on hand so I went with a Trailcraft special build last year. No regrets since it'll get handed down to little brother. However, if you've got a tighter budget... the MX Trail is the way to go. My sons riding buddy picked one up and that thing is a fantastic value, good components, functional air fork, etc.. In that price range it's hard to believe that there aren't a gazillion kids out there riding around on them. The only negative we found was that the stock tires were not sufficient, and tubeless was iffy. A set of Smart Sams fixed the former.


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## slowride454 (Jan 11, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> Reading this makes me really wonder why in the world you would feel the need to spend $1300 on a bike; sound like an incredible amount of overkill. My son was literally jumping over cars by age 8 and clearing 45' step-ups on double-black DH trails by 11 and I've never had to spend anywhere near that much on a bike for him (until he discovered throttles that is).
> 
> If you've got the money to burn, more power to you, but if not, I don't see any good reason you should feel the need to spend that much at this point for simple mellow trail riding.


Your kid must be amazing to be able to do all of that on heavy, unreliable bikes with useless suspension and brakes. Our kids are mere mortals so they need decent bikes to ride well.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Eh I wouldnt take it that far man. Slap head apparently has done a decent job at fostering his kid to do some cool stuff that isn't BS video games all damn day etc. Just because he, fairly respectfully, indicated that you don't need to drop 1300$ for your kid to rip doesn't mean his kid is riding total trash. The biggest jumps I've ever seen a kid do were on a 400$ BMX bike or similar.

The ticket here for dropping cash is, in my opinion, that the light weight bike allows you to not jump higher but climb higher. It's a fact of mountain biking that kids struggle with. My kid is big and athletic and can climb stuff that amazes me, but my second kid isn't...(he is working hard at 3yr but a bit different genetics so far). It's a lot of money but not uncommon around the big bike areas to see kids riding 24" FS bikes. They have the compression suits and rip the jump lines. It's badass and it's a lifestyle for them not a hobby.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

slowride454 said:


> Your kid must be amazing to be able to do all of that on heavy, unreliable bikes with useless suspension and brakes. Our kids are mere mortals so they need decent bikes to ride well.


My kid has a carbon Mojo SL; cost me less than 1300 bucks. He's also got BMX bikes that are more reliable than your watch, so relax. Every one of his bikes has been perfectly up to the tasks that were asked of them at the time. Some of you guys talk like any kiddie bike under a grand is unrideable junk. Simply not the case.

For the riding described, I personally can't see any problem whatsoever with spending less than half that dough on a slightly souped up Hardrock or similar. Can get both of you BMX bikes with the remainder so you've got perfect machines for screwing around the driveway too, if you're dead set on spending a bunch of dough.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

The wonderful thing about bikes is all the amazing things they let a kid do.
However as this thread illustrates there are as many types of bikes as there are amazing things to do with them.

When I was 8 a bike was freedom...and we messed about in local woods and such... the idea of trails still had to be invented along with suspension back then.

Kids or their parents at my sons school spend $300 on video consoles and then $50 each for games... 

I’m glad my kid enjoys a healthy outdoors hobby but I wouldn’t spend 1300 or so unless the bike was holding them back because they can easily lose interest in a specific type of riding.

Buying used is IMHO better as you can resell if they then go in a different direction without losing out. 

We ride fairly long rides, usually 15 miles on the most technical and sometimes up to 30.
The lighter bike really helps both of us go further and faster. 

He got into racing and that’s a different thing.


When we started doing more tech downhill with uplift we got to the point the bike was the wrong bike... so we ended up with an XC bike and a FS but that wasn’t until after he had tried and got to the point the bike was the thing holding him back and it was a used bike.

This is just how things worked out... I’m glad they did but he could equally have done something else


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## MidnightFattie (Jun 13, 2017)

Great thing about kids learning bike skills is that it's something they'll have for life. And continue to develop from wherever they are. The fundamentals of balance, pedal flow, steering, getting over obstacles - it will never change. This is unlike many other modern, tech based skills that will undoubtedly morph into something entirely different. Because they'll ride bikes for life - if only at some point. Those skills will be on tap. 

Teach your kid to bunny hop - they'll have that for life. 

Investing into your kid's tools - you can't go wrong, really. Or can you? 

I grew up a kid with a cheap, heavy bike. Money was tight. Parent's mentality was old school. To provide a functional bike was sufficient. Yet my friends had nicer bikes. We lived in the mountains. I climbed hills on a 30 pound Mongoose. My friends had high end racing bikes, probably 10 lbs lighter. I struggled to keep up. It sucked. 

Now I'm a Dad and I've gone the other way. Perhaps like OP. I want to buy my kid nice gear. I want my kid to have a better chance of success. 

Often, those purchases haven't panned out as expected. 

I would have been head over heels as a kid to get a high end bike. But only after I had ridden a heavy, coaster brake clunker. My kid gets a killer bike(s) from the get go; and that is simply the norm; no big deal. 

Parenting is tough. The poster above with the 8 year old who jumps cars is either exceptional; or simply has a kid who is a kindred spirit to that kind of stuff - who knows? We have to be careful not to project our own interests too much onto the kids, and empower them to be individuals. While balancing that fear that if we let them do what they want, they'll just sit on their iPad and eat Cheetos. 

At the end of the day, the best bike for your kid is the bike that your kid wants to ride. Because they always do best when inspired, rather than pushed.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

MidnightFattie said:


> Investing into your kid's tools - you can't go wrong, really. Or can you?
> 
> I grew up a kid with a cheap, heavy bike. Money was tight. Parent's mentality was old school. To provide a functional bike was sufficient. Yet my friends had nicer bikes. We lived in the mountains. I climbed hills on a 30 pound Mongoose. My friends had high end racing bikes, probably 10 lbs lighter. I struggled to keep up. It sucked.
> 
> Now I'm a Dad and I've gone the other way. Perhaps like OP. I want to buy my kid nice gear. I want my kid to have a better chance of success.


My Pops always told mea few things which I still live by - to buy more house than I could afford (thought being you would likely always make more money and that mortgage would get easier) and buy the best bike, skis and golf clubs I could afford as well. Depending on interest level of course. If your kid is into it, a better bike will set them up to be better riders.

Luckily there are so many options now in decent kids bikes. Our oldest we had to modify a Marin to get it down to 24 pounds from 28 through basically stripping everything down, custom wheels, etc. Now you can buy stock bikes several pounds lighter!

We've seen simple tire swaps for lighter versions do wonders for our own kids riding!


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## brownfish (Apr 10, 2014)

zimm said:


> Recommend a bike then. I'd rather not spend $1300.


My daughter went through a Specialized Hotrock 24" in about a year. It's still works but it was holding her back a bit and was time to get her a new bike. I really tried to get her on a bigger bike, as she is 11, but, she is still 4'6" and we just couldn't find one that fit reasonably. Most of the XS frames in adult bikes start at 4'10. So, it was back to getting her a second 24" bike.

I started doing some research. With 3 kids all riding, $1k+ bikes are definately out of the question. Plus with the amount of turnover I have seen my kids go through in sports (surfing, skating, bikes, swimming, baseball, soccer, archery, etc) investing that much won't happen until I see them truly obsessing over it. My 13 year old would love a nice enduro bike, but that isn't happening until I see him practicing manuals and bunny hops in the street, without my input. Or sitting on the Podium!

Getting back to my daughters needs. She is in 6th grade and racing her first season of NICA. Kind of a bummer she will be riding a 24" bike and pretty much everyone else will be riding 27.5's or 29's, but it is what it is. Really doesn't matter anyway, I just want her continue to become a good rider. That is all that really matters. Plus, she has been to enough NICA clinics now to realize that her skills are actually pretty good compared to others.

The bike that we ended up deciding on was the Diamondback Sync'r 24. I had a hard time getting over the fact that DB has been known as a Department store brand. But, the more research that I did, the more that bike kept coming back to me. SRAM 1x11 drivetrain, hydraulic disc brakes, wide bars, short stem, 2.3" tires, etc. MSRP was $800 and I think that is what REI and Amazon are charging. I was lucky to get the DB online Corporate discount and got the bike for $400 right around thanksgiving. I was lucky and acted when the site said that they only had 3 left, as it was a xmas present, and I haven't seen any available on the site since. They have actually taken it off the website (it used to say, email when available). I'm not sure if the are discontinuing it, but it seems they have been slowly getting rid of the whole HOOK/LINE/SYNCR series this year. Hook and Line were the lower and medium kits on the same frame.

She has been riding it now for 3+ weeks and the thing is super solid. She is charging on it, and it is super fun to watch. I figure if SETH can ride a DB, no reason why my daughter can't. Plus it was my first MTN bike back in 1987. So why not? I would say that the only drawback is that it isn't a featherweight and it does have a spring fork. Other than that, I think it has been a great investment so far. If you can find one at a good price, I would go for it!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

MidnightFattie said:


> Parenting is tough. The poster above with the 8 year old who jumps cars is either exceptional; or simply has a kid who is a kindred spirit to that kind of stuff - who knows?


He's a kid that simply has always loved to ride, and still does. He's never had any sort of weight-weenie or gear-weenie influence; he just gets on whatever bike there is and rides it. He's uninterested in upgrades for upgrades sake, and proves to me every time we ride that shopping doesn't make great riders, riding constantly does.

There's nothing wrong with spending a bunch of money on high end equipment if spending money makes you happy, but there also isn't sense in spending money you'd rather not for a much higher level of gear than is needed. If your kid is born to ride, they're going to ride. A few ounces, an extra gear, or stickers with a fancy name on them isn't going to make or break anything.

$250
















$450








$500


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## JCKID58 (Nov 20, 2017)

Hey ZIMM, I bet you are really glad you asked this question now aren't you! If you look around on this forum a bit you will see the same names popping up. Always telling some like yourself that for your kid to be able to get better or to really enjoy riding more you better get the most expensive bike available. I saw that when I was looking around for some opinions when my son moved up to a 20' bike. At that time we bought a Trek Superfly 20. Most of "those" guys knocked that bike for not being high end enough. We upgraded the shifter, crank and rear gear that's it. My son raced that against kids with all the NECESSARY high end parts and never finished lower than 2nd place. It's like some of these super cool, super light weight kid bike builds that you will see here. They build these bikes then post a picture of their child riding down the street on it. The bike never sees a trail but dad knows how many grams the pedals weigh. I will go back to my original OPINION. Assess your budget and be realistic about where the bike will be ridden and go from there. I will again recommend the Orbea MX 24. Although I'm still searching for the rabbit hole of mods that SactoGeoff seems to think I will NEED go down with this bike. A different crank and a set of tires and I'm done. The boy is ripping single track and loving the new bike. What ever bike you get for your son he will have that new bike grin on his face and that's what matters most.

Oh yea I see why slapheadmofo is a moderator he's a smart man


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

None of this is a personal assault on your life choices or your values. It's just sharing opinions about kids 24" bikes based upon some of our own personal experiences.

@JCKID58 - The rabbit hole of mods is partially what you listed. Even bothering to figure out WHAT tires and cranks is part of the rabbit hole. "MX24 Team Disc is a great value at $650 + tax & shipping or whatever. Oh I forgot to mention I spent another $90 on tires, $30 on tubeless stems, $15 on rim tape and $160 on cranks and a chain ring and $45 on pedals (stock is plastic). But that stuff doesn't really count. Nevermind I spent a week trying to source all that stuff for the best pricing. Oh and I plan to get a shock in the future (+200-250). Probably throw a shorter stem on it...maybe carbon bars I dug up" - I've seen that one posted several times. That bike I just listed is about $1150 ish with the shock and without the stem/bars stuff. And I agree. It's still a good value. Even with the restrained mods you listed. It's a good value. But there's_ some_ brain damage involved. AKA "rabbit hole".

The MX Trail with just tires, tubeless conv, cranks/chainring, pedals $1075.00+ tax and time spent sourcing. Yep. Still a good value.

The bike I suggested, the TC Winter Build is $1350 and it has lighter wheels. And guess what, most guys won't want or "need" to do anything to it. Not even rim tape. It comes delivered tubeless. So for $250 more than a modified MX24 Team Disc. Someone could have a lighter bike with wider gears than the MX24 and burn less calories in the purchase process. More money initially. Sure. Bummer some people believe that makes the purchaser a rich snob raising a spoiled fat kid who can't ride.

And the Trek Superfly 20" is also a good value. At the price, not much compares. Even with that bike, you also did some mods because even practical-you felt it could be better. And that justified the extra trouble and $$. - rabbit hole. A more practical one. But still.

Some people follow the "cry once" mentality. It's not a financial declaration or a personal criticism to anyone who doesn't follow that philosophy. It's just a different approach. My main point is, not much off the shelf is fully tuned for kids & lightweight-ish. Until you get into the "higher end" whatever that means. That's where the bikes come ready to go with proper sizing and gearing from the box. Just like any value proposition. It's a balance between $$ and time.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Lots of whining going on in here oddly enough, but also decent debate (a good thing). I don't have the background like many of you and hence it's been fantastic to learn from many of those that posted in here over the last 8 months. Regardless of how much you feel like spending, there has been some good advice on both sides and the OP probably has a good understanding of the pros and cons.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Don't get me wrong - there's nothing at all wrong with kids having sweet rides; pretty awesome actually. Just like adults though, a high end or highly customized bike isn't always the most pragmatic choice.


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## k9rocco (Jan 14, 2013)

I just bought my son a Specialized Hotrock 24. We have ridden a couple trails and he has been practicing on the local pump track with it. So far it's been more than capable and a great introduction to shifting gears for him and its been enjoyable for me since he is able to keep up a decent speed. It also didn't break the bank.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> He's a kid that simply has always loved to ride, and still does. He's never had any sort of weight-weenie or gear-weenie influence; he just gets on whatever bike there is and rides it. He's uninterested in upgrades for upgrades sake, and proves to me every time we ride that shopping doesn't make great riders, riding constantly does.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with spending a bunch of money on high end equipment if spending money makes you happy, but there also isn't sense in spending money you'd rather not for a much higher level of gear than is needed. If your kid is born to ride, they're going to ride. A few ounces, an extra gear, or stickers with a fancy name on them isn't going to make or break anything.
> 
> ...


Great pics but also illustrate the point of bikes being suitable for the riding.
Regrettably I live hours away from a bike park with an uplift... 
Most of our cycling forcibly involves a lot of pedalling and climbing.

That's not a bad thing... though for us we would do a different mix of riding. 
Jnr got into XC racing, we do DH weekends away when we can with uplift and a whole mix of stuff in-between.

For me the absolute clincher though is me (Dad) and Jnr cycling together. After that we have stuff we'd like to ride more and stuff we do because its close...

DH/Bike park he now uses a FS ... it's been lightened but not FOR DH/Bike Park but so it gets more use on trails... Paid well under $1000 for it... and had to either swap the CSU or replace the fork anyway... so we ended up with a lighter fork and a few swaps off other bikes and spares bin and its more an Enduro/trail. A brand new fork (hugely reduced because it's a 26" XC one) was less than changing the CSU and paying for a full fork service.. (I do lowers but don't do internals as it's not really worth the tools)

When he races XC he uses a HT on a diet... the bike cost $250 but the only original parts are forks, frame and weirdly mech hangar.... this bike also gets used for trail riding...

The XC/trail upgrades though are a mix of reasons.... some simply because the original wore out (like the headset), others because they were sat in my spares bin doing nothing useful and others to deliberately lighten the bike...

Essentially we have "3 bikes from 2"... in that the FS can be with his lighter wheels or heavier ones with big and heavy DH tires ...

He goes a lot further faster on the XC bike... and a lot faster on black descents on the FS... as you'd expect... but the differences in our daily riding can be pretty big.

If we have a limited time (2-3 hours) we might go and do a local trail with a few nice blacks off the top and a 2 mile and 500' climb back-up.... 
He will do this 5-6 times on his DH setup before he's tired out... and the climb stops being 15 minutes but 10 mins and a 10 min rest then 10 mins ... this is usually nearly the time to go home...

If we go to a place with a 20-30 mile loop and a few thousand feet of climbing then he'll often ride the XC bike or at least use lighter tires and wheels... the second half would be miserable for both of us on the DH set-up.. or we would be going slower and stopping more.
One place we go has a straight 2000' climb .. almost no let-up and he's done that on both the XC and FS (with lighter wheels) and 2kg makes a huge difference... we haven't even tried with the DH wheels which add another 2kg.... but on his XC


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Yeah, we don't do lift served very often these days, just a couple times a season.
Pics were just to point out that even for that type of riding, you don't HAVE to spend a ton of dough and that bikes well under $1000 will handle the type of riding the OP described just fine, with plenty of room to progress.

Of course, if he had said "My kid is looking to move up the ranks in the local highly competitive XC racing league and money is no object", that would be a whole different thing. But that doesn't seem to be where they're at right now.


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## MidnightFattie (Jun 13, 2017)

As evident in Slapheadmofo's posts, his kid shreds hard, and got there by riding all the time. Obviously, the kid loves to ride. That's the ticket! 

So with our elementary school kids, what, really are they most into? I don't know about you all, but my kids likes to hang out with friends more than anything else. And I bet slapheadmofo's kid rode with other kids on similar bikes as the genesis of his passion. Dollars to donuts! 


Maybe OP should look at what his kids's buddies are riding? Maybe he lives in Whistler, and they ride FS bikes. Or maybe they live in some suburban setting wherein the kids are probably on BMX bikes. 

Well maybe OP's kid's friends don't ride. He might consider put him into some group riding situation with other kids. Like BMX! 

OP obviously is seeking for this purchase to inspire his kid to ride more. Might work or might just be a big waste of money. He might get more inspired on a cheap bike with opportunity to ride with other kids. Nothing motivates a kid more than seeing another kid do something cool, that they believe is within their ability; combined with the pressure of wanting to fit into the peer group. 

We have to be honest with ourselves when we are caught up in GAS....Gear Acquisition Syndrome. Seeking fulfillment through shopping. Lying to ourselves about what we are really doing, and what the end result will be. It's an addiction of sorts. Mind will play all kinds of tricks. I'm in the throes as we speak! Like OP stating that he needs a front fork to ride on gravel roads so the headset doesn't rattle loose....really? Gravel bikes are rigid on skinny tires! This is GAS 101, manifesting itself! It never ends...but again, YMMV.

Either way, OP is a loving an unselfish parent, as well as all the parents on this thread. High fives to all!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

MidnightFattie said:


> He might consider put him into some group riding situation with other kids. Like BMX!


BMX was absolutely the biggest contributor to my son's bike handling skills, and racing and riding at the track and skateparks with other kids was and still is a great motivator. If you really want your kid to get comfortable on a bike, it's the way to go; just think of all the top-notch MTBers that got their start in BMX. The list is like a who's who of champions and legends.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

An older Specialized HotRock FSR makes a solid 24 inch trail bike for the young ripper. No it's not the best of the best but it will be a great intro to mountain biking. My son's is 25lb and i'm in the bike for about 300 with new tires, pads and cables. Rest of the upgrades I was given or traded for other parts.


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## marx68 (Apr 24, 2017)

Building your own can get pricey even if you DYI them. I have almost $400 in a used 20" HotRock. But it works well. Looking to upgrade him by next Christmas if he grows enough. Might consider GHOST Kato Kid 4 AL 24 from REI or perhaps a Marin or Fuji Dynamite Pro. We ride intermediate trails, so disc brakes are a big deal. I used the dual compound pads and Avid levers to get the HotRock some stopping power otherwise it would dangerous.

If you buy used, get it as close to the spec you can. These kids bikes have mostly junk components on them you will replace.


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## Kingfisher2011 (Nov 1, 2011)

It's a bit of a resurrection, but I found a couple of additional options last night that I thought I'd toss out for the general public, just for visibility. Looks like Cube (European mfg) finally got their stuff together and put together a handful of legit 24" bikes. They have several of them in different trim levels that are equipped with the new Suntour air fork and solid component spec. It'd have to be shipped in but they're a solid brand and CRC will get them to you in a jiffy. The 240 SL and 240 Race are the the top of the line and are priced at $1062 and $863 respectively. Not cheap but options are options.


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## marx68 (Apr 24, 2017)

It has the REVO shift I don't like on the Race. Best value I've found so far is the Fuji Dynamite Elite 24. Can be had for $699 delivered. Spec is Deore and XCT air. You can't build it for less.
But it's a big bike and your kid needs to be about 54" tall. For another year he's stuck on the modded HotRock. Main thing I don't like are the rim brakes. I put dual compound pads on it to help when they are wet, but it's not the same as disc.



Kingfisher2011 said:


> It's a bit of a resurrection, but I found a couple of additional options last night that I thought I'd toss out for the general public, just for visibility. Looks like Cube (European mfg) finally got their stuff together and put together a handful of legit 24" bikes. They have several of them in different trim levels that are equipped with the new Suntour air fork and solid component spec. It'd have to be shipped in but they're a solid brand and CRC will get them to you in a jiffy. The 240 SL and 240 Race are the the top of the line and are priced at $1062 and $863 respectively. Not cheap but options are options.


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

Orbea MX Trail 24 arrived today. It's a little big for my 7 year old, who's 48" tall. But he's ripping around the neighborhood already and taking on the speed bumps like a champ. He'll grow into it. His little brother had to move onto to his 20" bike, so it forced the 24" a little early.

I'm going to drop air pressure and set the sag so the front end should come down a bit.


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## Kingfisher2011 (Nov 1, 2011)

Good catch Marx. I think it's a typo though... I hope. I think the '18's are, well... fixed. lol The SL is SLX equipped and the description for the Race says it's SL-M6000 (and I don't think they make a revo 10 spd in that spec, that I could find). The photo on their site has triggers. I concur with your take on the revos though. Not really a fan on 7/8 spd 20" bikes, and certainly don't want it on anything bigger.


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## marx68 (Apr 24, 2017)

I think you are right. Revo's are only 6/7/8 speed. That Orbea MX Trail looks very nice. The boy is tippy toe but on the seat. It's on my short list for sure. I've been buying from PB using Team Points and sales like 15% off. So $699 - 15% is $594 for the Fuji Elite then you get 10% store credit. Wish they carried the Orbea, but the Fuji is real close. I'm thinking this Christmas he might hit 48".

Congrats Zimm! That smile is worth every penny.



Kingfisher2011 said:


> Good catch Marx. I think it's a typo though... I hope. I think the '18's are, well... fixed. lol The SL is SLX equipped and the description for the Race says it's SL-M6000 (and I don't think they make a revo 10 spd in that spec, that I could find). The photo on their site has triggers. I concur with your take on the revos though. Not really a fan on 7/8 spd 20" bikes, and certainly don't want it on anything bigger.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

Congrats! A 32mm stem and some 140mm cranks will help the fit quite a bit. It will still be a tad big.

Have fun!


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

SactoGeoff said:


> Congrats! A 32mm stem and some 140mm cranks will help the fit quite a bit. It will still be a tad big.
> 
> Have fun!


Great idea. I'm a bit clueless on modern components. Could you link me an example of a decent stem and crankset that will work? Something mailorder and affordable would be awesome.yy

Like this? Race Face Aeffect 35 Stem | Jenson USA


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

These work well and are fairly light. The bolts are the heaviest part .. you could change them if you wanted.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Steve-XtC said:


> These work well and are fairly light. The bolts are the heaviest part .. you could change them if you wanted.
> https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Han...UTF8&qid=1519279884&sr=8-2&keywords=Wake+stem
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

Perfect, I'm going to order that stem. Stock is 70mm. As for the "Alloy 32t 152mm" cranks, they look pretty generic. Will any 120-140mm crank set work as long as I get the BCD right?

It looks like this would work. https://www.amazon.com/Sinz-Expert-...0&sr=8-8&keywords=bike+crank+140mm&th=1&psc=1

135mm? 140mm? I can always go back to the 152 when he gets bigger.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

zimm said:


> Perfect, I'm going to order that stem. Stock is 70mm. As for the "Alloy 32t 152mm" cranks, they look pretty generic. Will any 120-140mm crank set work as long as I get the BCD right?
> 
> It looks like this would work. https://www.amazon.com/Sinz-Expert-...0&sr=8-8&keywords=bike+crank+140mm&th=1&psc=1
> 
> 135mm? 140mm? I can always go back to the 152 when he gets bigger.


Those Sinz are nice but they are 5 bolt BMX style (I think?), not sure if thats ideal or not. I wouldn't buy those. Regardless your existing chainring is only a 4 bolt and will fit the TrailCraft cranks assuming the BCD is the same (I don't know what the stock chainring BCD is, TC cranks are 104 BCD)

I'd just make it easy and order the Trail Craft ones (140mm). Square Tapered mount, which I think is what that BB is. Really easy to remove and add. You just need the PARK TOOL CCP-22. I have a thread on doing this with a Spawn Yoji 16" bike.

https://www.trailcraftcycles.com/product/trailcraft-cranks-arms-only/


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

Good call. I ordered the trail craft 140's and 30t chain ring. I have an old Park CCP-1 crank puller. No idea if that's the same. I'll have to google it.

Yup, looks like the ccp-1 is an ancient version, but has 22mm threads as well as some weird 23mm "french" threads from some really old bikes.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

zimm said:


> Good call. I ordered the trail craft 140's and 30t chain ring. I have an old Park CCP-1 crank puller. No idea if that's the same. I'll have to google it.
> 
> Yup, looks like the ccp-1 is an ancient version, but has 22mm threads as well as some weird 23mm "french" threads from some really old bikes.


That crank puller will work.

Also, you may want to remove 2 links from the chain when you go from the stock gearing to a 30T. It may or may not be necessary though. If you do, use that opportunity to install a quick link.

The crank length swap will make a huge difference. Along with the shorter stem. Which helps with reach. But also really helps with keeping his weight more over the pedals when standing/coasting over obstacles. So he's not leaning forward favoring the frt of the bike.

Also, move the stem to the lowest setting. I/E put the spacers on top. So the stem is more "slammed". I/E - lower.

Can we talk about those pedals? Too soon?


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

Pedals ordered. Why a new B.B.? Stock can’t work? If I need a new B.B. I could have bought the integrated crank set from Trail ready......


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

zimm said:


> Pedals ordered. Why a new B.B.? Stock can't work? If I need a new B.B. I could have bought the integrated crank set from Trail ready......


BB? Your BB is fine in my opinion. I didn't see someone mention about swapping it.

Sacto is right on the pedals  One last thing to fix. The Wellgo KC001 or KC008 are very good and light. There is another brand that starts with an "A" and are even better but more expensive.

Since we are mountain biking now, I'd recommend the following protection (confidence keepers)

1- Bell Super 2R/3R Full Face Enduro Helment in Small (it'll fit) - this is a requirement in our book. I can't stress that enough. My kid never rides without one. Breaths good, is light and you can take the chin bar off for long climbs (we never do). It has saved his face SO MANY TIMES. Even just dinking around with his brother at -2 mph and they bump handlebars. Dental work is expensive (Dad's on here can attest to that). Trust me on this one. There just isn't much downside to wearing one on most days unless you are in extreme heat. Bought our Super 2R for 99$ on closeout. Check ebay.

2- We like the GForm knee and elbow pads a lot. They are just nice and light and comfy and work. I keep some cheap strap on pads around too for neighborhood kids or when my kid has jeans on and is sessioning our home track.

3- Vans OldSkool shoes, the honeycomb works well. Flat Pedals (with the pins that you will buy) and Shoes are a system just like Clipins and Shoes. These are cheap and work great. Get Velcro. Saves your kid from slip-crashes (especially when wet) and keeps confidence high. Get the velcro.

4- I like to use the Storelli Leg Guards - they aren't just shin guards. We wear them with the calf padding on the inside. One of the most common kids pains is the chainstays landing on their inner calf or ankle. These have padding all around these areas (shin, calk, ankle) not just the shin. Work great for soccer too, very nice. For the actual shin guard insert, I just use a large black neoprene mousepad and cut the inserts out. Super cheap and not as bulky as big plastic guards for soccer.

5- Gloves - we use the Fox gloves in an XS. Kids love Fox gear. The first thing to the ground is usually the hands. Even my 3yr wears little gloves (thanks to RascalRides website for the recommendation!!!)

We don't wear these all the time (helmet all the time and usually gloves), but if the kid is riding then he is going to be crashing. Its nice when those crashes just don't hurt much. No tears and more importantly not lost confidence. Especially at a skills track, or bike park or skate park etc.

FYI is you start riding real hard, the Demon Armor is LEGIT and light/breathable. We use it often when we are downhill riding or jump lines etc.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

svinyard said:


> BB? Your BB is fine in my opinion. I didn't see someone mention about swapping it.


Nope though having the tool to do so is a good idea.

We (friend and I) upgraded his son's Orbea 24 (very base model bought used) and I had a spare UN55 BB sat around so we whipped out the Orbea fitted one. It was in good condition and was actually lighter than the UN55 so it went back in.



> Bell Super 2R/3R Full Face Enduro Helment in Small (it'll fit) - this is a requirement in our book. I can't stress that enough. My kid never rides without one. Breaths good, is light and you can take the chin bar off for long climbs (we never do). It has saved his face SO MANY TIMES. Even just dinking around with his brother at -2 mph and they bump handlebars. Dental work is expensive (Dad's on here can attest to that). Trust me on this one. There just isn't much downside to wearing one on most days unless you are in extreme heat. Bought our Super 2R for 99$ on closeout. Check ebay.


I got one and so impressed that Jnr got one too. I take a medium and I realised I could at a pinch where his youth medium FF (also Bell sizing)... and with the 3R wound in fully he could at a pinch wear the adult medium. So the medium adult would seem to be about the same at its smallest setting as a youth medium... and the adult small seems to be able to go smaller than the youth medium FF.

It's replaced all his other helmets except the proper full face for full on DH. 
With the chin bar removed its as light and breathable as any trail worthy helmet (discounting road helmets as not trail worthy) and the chin bar packs easily into a backpack taking up almost no room.

Chinguard fitted, whereas the protection is not the same as a proper full face its much much more wearable for climbs and long rides and you can always take it off.

Worth noting (though obvious), if you use goggles they need to be adult sized goggles or they won't fit the helmet properly. (For us being in the UK they are pretty much needed since we ride mud more than not and even with goggles I still get dirt in my eyes - but YMMV depending where you ride - note most of our purpose built trails are built to ride in the wet)



sactogeoff said:


> The crank length swap will make a huge difference. Along with the shorter stem. Which helps with reach. But also really helps with keeping his weight more over the pedals when standing/coasting over obstacles. So he's not leaning forward favoring the frt of the bike.


Yep, can't overstate that... it also gives more clearance for stand over because you can raise the saddle... which also moves it backwards creating more space.
In terms of seated riding position though it's night and day. They can spend much longer in the saddle on long rides and have a proper position when they have climbs so you will ride a lot longer and further before they are tired.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

svinyard said:


> 1- Bell Super 2R/3R Full Face Enduro Helment in Small (it'll fit) - this is a requirement in our book. I can't stress that enough. My kid never rides without one. Breaths good, is light and you can take the chin bar off for long climbs (we never do). It has saved his face SO MANY TIMES. Even just dinking around with his brother at -2 mph and they bump handlebars. Dental work is expensive (Dad's on here can attest to that). Trust me on this one. There just isn't much downside to wearing one on most days unless you are in extreme heat. Bought our Super 2R for 99$ on closeout.
> .


Third that - big fan. 
Even comes with a built-in GoPro mount!


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

I think I introduced the BB discussion when I misread what cranks you'd ordered and published a comment. Then edited it. Sorry for the confusion. But at the same time...Ti BB's are awesome and save tons of weight. Not a great value proposition though.

I'd say your kid's helmet is fine for now. But the second you have an excuse, buy the Super3R. They can be had on sale for around $160. We have them and they're awesome.

About shoes/pedals. It will make yet another difference. The difference between sneakers and waffle bottoms with pins is pretty big. Vans are good and accessible. My girls have outgrown their first pair of Vans and the delivery guy just dropped off 2 pair of Five Tens. They're pricey and sizing access can be a problem. But from the looks of them, worthwhile.

Be sure to update us on how things go! So we can keep suggesting ways to blow money for a good cause! :thumbsup: #morekidsonbikes


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

His standard helmet is fine for now. He's hasn't been on a trail....yet. For now we're doing our daily "commute" to and from school so he's getting used to the bike. It's pretty big on him, but with the shorter stem, 140mm cranks, and better pedals on order, that should help out. His seat is nearly slammed full down, and he could pedal better if it was raised an inch or so, but then he couldn't touch the ground. Right now he's on tippy toes and it takes a bit to hop on and get going.

After we start getting on the dirt, then I'll look into better protective gear, but the first few trips to the park will be on the "adaptive" green trails which nearly level, dirt with some small roots and rocks thrown in.


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