# Bought my daughter a full-face helmet, what a disappointment.



## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Looked around for the 2014 Fly Kinetic Inversion in pink Adult XS for my daughter. Found one on Amazon, bought it.

When I opened the box today all excitedly, I first noticed that the white bag it comes in (factory protect) was shoved inside the helmet instead of covering it. Pulled that out and found a few hairs in it, along with a "dirty" looking rear collar. Turned it over, covered in dust, and a few scratches and dings in it.

Wrote back to the seller on Amazon to see what their remedy will be. Frustrating! Disappointing.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009OWO9NE/ref=ox_ya_os_product_refresh_T1


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

Dang. What seller?


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Got Gear Motorsports.
Amazon.com At a Glance: Got Gear Motorsports

Awaiting response before prematurely leaving feedback.


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

Hopefully they are quick. Everyone makes mistakes, but good companies fix stuff in a hurry.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Yep. It's a 2014 model, so I imagine I'll be told 1 of 3 things:

1. Tough luck.
2. We'll give you $xx refund to keep it.
3. Return for full refund.

I don't think #1 will happen. I have to think if I want to keep it, at what price would be worthwhile.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

keeping the helmet it's a though one... I wouldn't do it, you don't know what it had been through to have a "been used" look and damage...

I'd aim for return and full refund


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## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

The Fly Kinetics a great helmet which just makes this sort of customer service a huge disappointment. It looks like its either been used or been a display model this tried on and maybe even dropped a few times. All the padding does come out and can be washed if you decide to keep it. The scratches are no too much of a drama (but certainly should not be there in a new product) 
but dings could be.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

Well the seller looks committed to standing behind what they sell. I would have given them the chance to fix it before posting here. Maybe they will replace it and apologize. BUT I would ask them to replace and cover all shipping instead of a refund. Funny the only bad comment thatnwas not related to shipping involved a damaged helmet. I would be surprised if they didn't resolve this the right way.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Terranaut said:


> Well the seller looks committed to standing behind what they sell.


I hope so!



> I would have given them the chance to fix it before posting here. Maybe they will replace it and apologize. BUT I would ask them to replace and cover all shipping instead of a refund. Funny the only bad comment thatnwas not related to shipping involved a damaged helmet. I would be surprised if they didn't resolve this the right way.


I thought about it too. If they stand behind it, it works out in their favor, and the company will have a positive/favorable customer satisfaction review floating around here. I think it's important for consumers to see how companies handle things.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Still no response, initiated Return Request through Amazon. We'll see what happens next.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Thats not great news Dave88LX
Its also one of the reasons i will only buy helmets from a person in a shop or a Mainstream Web dealer i.e. chain reaction etc


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Well, they responded to my return request:

*Good Morning
I packed up the helmet myself, we sent you a Brand New Helmet as per the description.
Thanks Again*

Outstanding. I'll be submitting them pictures.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

Maybe send him a link to this post.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Probably ought to. I replied with pictures. I understand mistakes happen, shipping errors happen etc. Own up to it. Make it right.


I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way that this is a new helmet "as per the description" and I've included images from when it was taken directly out of the box. 

The first indication was the box was taped sloppily shut.
The helmet was NOT inside the white protective shipping bag, it was simply tucked inside.
There were hairs inside the helmet (unsanitary).
The rear bottom of the helmet is dirty from rubbing on someone's neck.
The helmet is covered in dust.
There are chips in the finish.
There are large scratches on the helmet.

PLEASE do not tell me this is a new helmet.

Awaiting your instruction. I initially contacted your company through Amazon the same day I received the helmet, but my message was ignored until I submitted a return today.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

Brand new display model. I would bet on it.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Display model that was ridden around the track a few times...LOL. Way too much dirt to be a display model. I'm more annoyed at the lack of response/brushing it off from the company at this point.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I didn't hear anything the rest of yesterday, or this morning. I called the phone number around lunch time to see what was up. *Terranaut* called it, he said it's a new display model.

It's one thing to sell a filthy banged-up hair-filled display model if it is advertised as such and discounted to reflect the condition (I've bought many floor/display models before). It's _not_ (IMO) OK to jam it in a box, sell it at full price, and advertise it as brand new.

Now at this point I'm hoping not to sound petty, but I just didn't like the guy's attitude. Sales dude cutting me off and talking over me, basically trying to make me feel dumb for not just knowing it was a display and that I was making a deal out of nothing. Said 1 in 10 helmets he hears this about. (_Well man, that ought to tell you something about the way you are running things)_. No offer to reduce price, just that I can keep it and it's fine, or that he'd send me a return label.

He called me back about an hour later after he talked with the manager, and they offered to knock $20 off, but at this point I'd just rather deal with a different company, not one mis-representing items for sale, and needing to be contacted 3-4 times to get a resolution.


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## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

Unless its a perfect fit and your daughter is already in love with it I would be sending it back. More because of his attitude than anything else. If you are looking for another option I have had excellent service from BTO Sports for buying bmx clothes, helmets and protective gear.

My favourite girls helmet -
https://www.btosports.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/fly-2015-kinetic-jungle-helmet-purple.jpg
Looks much better is person. Or this is the 2015 pink Fly kinetic ($89.95)
https://www.btosports.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/fly-2015-kinetic-impulse-helmet-pink.jpg


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

Thanks for letting us all know. I hope the guy reads this forum and learns from his behavior.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Sounds like your minds made up and I thnk Id be dosing the same considering how it looks and how theyve avoided an honest advert and response.
I would try an speak directly to the manager to explain and would also put it in writng.

If they cant be honest then you cant trust whats been said even now and if they were in your position they would do exactly the same.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

Did you send them a link to this? I will never buy from them based on your experience. Thanks for sharing.
You'd think they would just send you a new helmet. Tisk tisk.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

Any follow up?


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## Kaliprotectives (Nov 12, 2014)

Hi Dave,

It's a bummer your experience has been so miserable. Have you attempted to reach out to Fly directly?









In case you decide to go a different route with your next helmet purchase, you should check out our Savara Full Face. Not only is it available in Pink, but it retails for a similar price point, and has a fiberglass shell. Most helmets in this ~hundred dollar price point use an ABS shell, which we have found in testing does not provide enough protection in chinbar impacts.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Terranaut said:


> Any follow up?


Nothing new to report, double-checked the sizing on my daughter tonight, and I'll be sticking the new label on it tomorrow and sending it off back!


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Kaliprotectives said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> It's a bummer your experience has been so miserable. Have you attempted to reach out to Fly directly?
> 
> ...


I didn't bother contacting Fly, just their seller. No point really talking with them, as it's a 2014 model anyways.

I haven't heard of Kali, but that doesn't mean anything because I am new to the scene. I only know the big names with big advertising budgets. 

I see you only have one post here, are you Brad? Tell us a bit about your company!

I will take a look at your site and look into your helmets, good to know about other options. Where is that helmet listed?

I don't see that color scheme, and I really like it. SAVARA™ - Kali


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Minor update:
Did my research on this Kali company, couldn't find anything bad about them, and lots of positive reviews.

Purchased the above helmet for $90 shipped from BTO. Used code 'thankyou' for 10% off.

Thank you for pointing out that helmet. I'll keep everyone posted how it turns out.

Kali Protectives - Savara Celebrity Helmet (Bicycle): BTO SPORTS


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## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

The Kali helmets are really nice several kids I know wear them. They look even better in person and they are pretty light. Doubt you will be disappointed.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

That's great to know then. Looking forward to getting it!


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## Kaliprotectives (Nov 12, 2014)

Hi Dave,

To give you a little back story, Kali makes a full range of helmets for everything from bikes to motorcycles, as well as other protective gear like kneepads. Our main focus is to create the safest possible products, and we place a huge emphasis on technology.

For example, we are the only manufacturer in the wold who in molds our full face helmets. Since the shell and foam aren't glued together like they are in traditional helmets, they can work as one seamless unit, which allows us to use a thinner shell and softer foam to help better diffuse impacts. 

We were also the first manufacturer to combine cone-shaped multidimensional foam with softer foam lining around the head, to help mitigate low speed impacts.

Essentially, we won't make a helmet that the owner, Brad Waldron, wouldn't put his own kids in. Hopefully that answers a few of your questions! 

Please feel free to reach out to our customer service line (408) 778-2700 if you ever have any issues with our product, or have questions about our technology.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Sounds good, thanks for providing that info!


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## MadPainterGrafx (Oct 3, 2014)

Dave I'm glad to see that you're getting taken care of and sorry to hear about that mess with the other place but I am curious as I didn't see it in any of your posts but I am curious as to why you got your daughter a full face helmet?


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Got the refund notice issued through Amazon on Nov 26th for $77.08, on a $89.95 helmet. I wrote them again through Amazon informing them they are still $12.xx short on the refund. I'm sure I'll hear something about how I'm responsible for shipping/restocking or some garbage. If that's the case, I will dispute with Amazon/my bank.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

MadPainterGrafx said:


> Dave I'm glad to see that you're getting taken care of and sorry to hear about that mess with the other place but I am curious as I didn't see it in any of your posts but I am curious as to why you got your daughter a full face helmet?


(BMX)


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## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

The Kali helmet looks awesome Dave88LX. Are you happy with it?

MadPainterGr - Full face helmets are compulsory to race BMX. My 5 year old son also wears his for mountain bike riding and trust me as a Mum of a 5 year old who likes to jump off everything and thinks nothing of chasing his dad up and down every trail available I am very happy that he actually prefers his full face helmet to his normal bike helmet. He also wears elbow and knee protection in the bush - we get some funny looks sometimes but it means those little crashes onto rocks or into trees are just not an issue and the big, over the bars yard sales are usually met with "wow that was cool" rather than tears and hospital visits.


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## MadPainterGrafx (Oct 3, 2014)

Cool man that's a sweet pic too! I didn't see where you said it was for bmx sorry if I missed it. 

Silvascape I can understand pads and protecting the kids. I do think it's odd to use for mtb but to each their own. Now a little history on me I was a volunteer firefighter/emt for 19 years and I have worked at local motocross and offroad motorcycle/atv events and have treated many boo boo's from a simple injury and unfortunately serious injuries where we flew the rider to the hospital and sadly enough I've dealt with the worst of worst to many times to count in those years no matter how they happened. But I'm glad to hear people are looking at protecting their kids more then a lot of them do most of the time. However I don't think any parent that's been involved with cycling/motorcycling sports is prone to either riding or letting their kids ride without head protection and more.


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## Kaliprotectives (Nov 12, 2014)

Your daughter looks like a ripper! Nice choice on the Redline Flight bike. They're a great choice for kids because of the weight and component spec!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Glad it's all worked out D.


My son rode mainly w/ a FF and pads until he was 8 or so, at least for BMX racing/park riding or MTB DHing, which was pretty much most of the riding he did. Saved a ton of skin and some teeth, at a minimum.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

silvascape said:


> The Kali helmet looks awesome Dave88LX. Are you happy with it?


Absolutely! I don't know much about helmets but everything seems to be high quality on it. Comfortable for her. Sizing accurate. Haven't crash-tested it yet. 

I would definitely recommend the helmet for anyone shopping. Especially when you compare it to the size/bulk/weight of the other helmets at that price.



MadPainterGrafx said:


> Cool man that's a sweet pic too! I didn't see where you said it was for bmx sorry if I missed it.


Oh I may not have said what it was for before. Yeah my girls love getting out there!



Kaliprotectives said:


> Your daughter looks like a ripper! Nice choice on the Redline Flight bike. They're a great choice for kids because of the weight and component spec!


Thank you! Her cranks are too long right now (140), because I had to borrow her 115s to stick on her sister's bike. New 115s are in and I'll put them back on so it's sized better for her. Agreed, the Pitboss is a great bike! Ironically I normally hate "forum spam" especially from new members, but in this case, I'm glad you showed up *Kaliprotectives*. 



slapheadmofo said:


> Glad it's all worked out D.
> 
> My son rode mainly w/ a FF and pads until he was 8 or so, at least for BMX racing/park riding or MTB DHing, which was pretty much most of the riding he did. Saved a ton of skin and some teeth, at a minimum.


I have to figure out what to buy them for the spring for BMX. I don't want bulky elbow/knee pads because _I read on the internet_ that the big pads can provide a fulcrum point for the joints and cause extended damage by allowing them to be bent backwards in certain types of crashes.

Have to find out what people are running on their kids.


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## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

Hi Dave. Our son uses fox peewee elbow pads and roost and gform knee pads. The fox peewee stuff is light and pretty flexible and he actually likes the elbow pads better than the expensive gform ones. He doesn't use the knee pads much for bmx as for some reason he doesn't tend to bang knees in falls - elbows seem to be the main ground contact point and the roost helps stop the painful collisions with various bike parts.


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## surftime (Nov 15, 2010)

good on you for getting the FF helmet. All my kids ride with a FF and they have used them. Once the kids get used to it its not a big deal - one time my 9 year old went face first going down a fire road over a water bar that he did not know how to properly jump. He went down hard, my heart sank, but the FF saved his face for sure. So did the knee and elbow pads. Only area hurt was his hip. Lesson learned, keep them with a FF as long as you can


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

*sigh* Saga continues. *Got Gear Motorsports'* Response:

*"I inspected the Helmet before we sent it out, it was a brand new helmet without the original box.
We deducted our cost of shipping."*

My move...what's next?


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

Pay with a credit card? Call them and send them your pics. Mail fraud is a felony and your credit card has protection against stuff like this. Same with Paypal.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Dispute it through Amazon. 
You have the original advert that states "new".
You have the response from the provider stating "new", and a further one saying "new without original box"
You have the photos which clearly show it is worn and damaged therefore it is not new and that as it shows signs of damage which may jeopardise safety/integrity.
Based on the info/evidence it's not as advertised and this is covered by Amazons A to Z protection.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I think I will try that, thank you!


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

Any luck with this?


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Haven't had 2 straight minutes to myself to sit down yet! LOL...KIDS! I'm going to try and get it done tonight.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Submitted the claim. Amazon offered an instant-refund towards my account of the $12.87, good on them. So now we wait to see what this company's response is. Then I will grade them accordingly on Amazon, Facebook, and anywhere else applicable.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

Pretty sure I would just post a link to this thread. You gave them a chance to make it right and they did not. I would give away more than $13 to make sure my company name didn't go down the toilet. Not to bright on their part at all.


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

What is the weight of the Kali Savara Celebrity?


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## Kaliprotectives (Nov 12, 2014)

fireswamp said:


> What is the weight of the Kali Savara Celebrity?


The Savara weights roughly 1500 grams. There is always some manufacturing variance, so we some ~50 grams more or less than that number.

Our top of the line bicycle full face, the Avatar II, is just under 800g. We strive to make the lightest helmets possible because we believe it reduces the amount of force applied to your head in a crash (because F=M*A).


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