# Your favorite creation



## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

I think its pretty cool to watcht a frame "come to life" on my table in the form of a life-size drawing. We will get Bike-CAD some day but right now every one is born with a pencil and a big piece of paper. I love the feeling of going back and making a change to the drawing and seeing what that does (in life size reality) to EVERY other aspect of the bike (frame). Then I ponder how that change will ripple out all the way to the last time the owner ever rides the bike. Its like making a change to the bike's DNA.

Over the passed 2 years we've done our share of bikes but this one stands out to me. Its not the coolest looking, lightest, fanciest build (or even my own bike), but after spending a few weeks on it, it has become one of my (our) favorite creations. Its one of the most well-mannered, all around (positively) nuetral riding bikes I've ridden.

Post up a picture of one of your favorite creations!






.


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## MichauxYeti (Nov 10, 2005)

Nice. I really like the disc tab reinforcement and the logo design. Why did you choose to extend the fork legs so high, though? Won't they hit the downtube?


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## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

MichauxYeti said:


> Nice. I really like the disc tab reinforcement and the logo design. Why did you choose to extend the fork legs so high, though? Won't they hit the downtube?


This frame (bike) is my frame building partner's. The fork was our first foray into a segmented design so the extensions were just *because*. We were more concerned about ride quality and fork strength. We knew they would hit the DT but were not overly concerned with that. The extentions stick up so high the DT would never be "scored" and the DT is a beefy 9/6/9 butt profile so a dent would only occur in a NASTY crash. Since riding 29ers through the advent of the Reba fork clearance debacle many of my early 29ers never cleared the DT. While not desirable I think the reality of it being a true problem is slim.

.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Fast! A slalom racing truck that has gone over 60mph.


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## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

pvd said:


> Fast! A slalom racing truck that has gone over 60mph.


Ha pretty cool! I had not even considered my post from a NBR point of view. Next thing yunno Walt will be posting pics of a wooden bridge or somthing like that.....


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*You asked for it...*

The "bouncy bridge" as it's been dubbed. Hasn't been up to 60mph, but it's held up a 300# person.

Hmm. This is getting offtopic in a hurry. Next thing you know someone's going to post a picture of their kid or their dog or something.

-Walt


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Walt said:


> The "bouncy bridge" as it's been dubbed. Hasn't been up to 60mph, but it's held up a 300# person.
> 
> Hmm. This is getting offtopic in a hurry. Next thing you know someone's going to post a picture of their kid or their dog or something.
> 
> -Walt


That is cool! I will have to steal the idea for some of my local trails. Would make a fun backyard/parking lot balance beam, too.


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## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

Walt said:


> Hmm. This is getting offtopic in a hurry. Next thing you know someone's going to post a picture of their kid
> -Walt


Well now YOU asked for it! I guess they actually are my favorite *creations*. :thumbsup:



Ok, now to get back on topic....2 frame builders have now posted to this thread and still no pics of their favorite frame(s). Shame on you.....

.


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## rustola (Jan 15, 2008)

My favorite creation: The devil horn wishbone seatstays on my Ti singlespeed


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

haha everyone hates me for this one but I like it  ... steerer tube extension.


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

Of the stuff I haven't done for others, the bike on the right, so far. Come June though.....


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

pvd said:


> Fast! A slalom racing truck that has gone over 60mph.


Dang those are awesome!!!:rockon: I used to DH with a guy that built a long board with a moto tire he would coffin, he was clocked at 53 back in the dayz. :cornut::cornut:


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## klondikebike (Jul 11, 2006)

CBaron said:


> I think its pretty cool to watcht a frame "come to life" on my table in the form of a life-size drawing. We will get Bike-CAD some day but right now every one is born with a pencil and a big piece of paper. I love the feeling of going back and making a change to the drawing and seeing what that does (in life size reality) to EVERY other aspect of the bike (frame). Then I ponder how that change will ripple out all the way to the last time the owner ever rides the bike. Its like making a change to the bike's DNA.
> 
> Over the passed 2 years we've done our share of bikes but this one stands out to me. Its not the coolest looking, lightest, fanciest build (or even my own bike), but after spending a few weeks on it, it has become one of my (our) favorite creations. Its one of the most well-mannered, all around (positively) nuetral riding bikes I've ridden.
> 
> ...


NIce lines in the back.:thumbsup: 
Any issues with the fork not clearing the DT?


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## Treybiker (Jan 6, 2004)

Thylacine said:


> Of the stuff I haven't done for others, the bike on the right, so far. Come June though.....


Are you talking about the green machine (you said bike on the right)? The funky orange FS with the whacked out "Pivot gear" looks pretty interesting.


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## el-cid (May 21, 2004)

Thylacine said:


> Of the stuff I haven't done for others, the bike on the right, so far. Come June though.....


The one on the left is pretty crazy looking, any more pictures?


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

trying to upload pics.........howdy, all, steve. showbikes online at www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com looks like it worked! denise's new 650b singlespeed. fork coutesey of walt. also accepts gears through removable cablestops, can take 700c road/cross wheels, and be 1-speed, full gears, rohloff or fixed. powdercoat by spectrum. also have absolute bike's 29er racebike on my blog. gotta go, nahbs is upon us.........steve.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Welcome, Steve!*

Now the MTBR framebuilding forum is bigtime, baby! We've got the 2007 NAHBS builder of the year!

Of course, he'll lose his crown in about a month here, but still...

Is that Denise's 650b that I built the fork for?

-Walt



coconinocycles said:


> trying to upload pics.........howdy, all, steve. showbikes online at www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

yep, it is, walt. thanks! probally gonna get a matching disc one too. i got post mounts to allow the use of the 2 different wheel sizes. thanks for the welcome. been building my ass off this month. i gotta nice fork jig, but buying the jig didn't include the time to make forks with a 10 month frame backlog.........i just don't wanna make folks with frames in que wait longer with add-ons, and you do such a great job! p.s., margo's bike looks sweet too. steve.


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## playpunk (Apr 1, 2005)

Walt said:


> Now the MTBR framebuilding forum is bigtime, baby! We've got the 2007 NAHBS builder of the year!
> 
> Of course, he'll lose his crown in about a month here, but still...
> 
> ...


are you talking trash about the NAHBS? that's awesome!


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## Live Wire (Aug 27, 2007)

coconinocycles said:


> trying to upload pics.........howdy, all, steve. showbikes online at www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com looks like it worked! denise's new 650b singlespeed. fork coutesey of walt. also accepts gears through removable cablestops, can take 700c road/cross wheels, and be 1-speed, full gears, rohloff or fixed. powdercoat by spectrum. also have absolute bike's 29er racebike on my blog. gotta go, nahbs is upon us.........steve.


Oh great! Now, the next time I go to Flag, not only will Denise be kicking my ass on the trails....she'll be doing it on a bike covered with flowers! Thanks a lot!

I really dig the race 29er too.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Uh, no?*

Huh? Steve IS the 2007 NAHBS builder of the year. He's a badass. I wasn't joking.

I'm confused.

-Walt



playpunk said:


> are you talking trash about the NAHBS? that's awesome!


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## playpunk (Apr 1, 2005)

sorry, just goofing around. Does the builder of the year award rotate? 

I thought that you were saying you were going to take his title. You know, Muhammad Ali style. Or maybe more like Mike Tyson.


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## Treybiker (Jan 6, 2004)

Walt said:


> Now the MTBR framebuilding forum is bigtime, baby! We've got the 2007 NAHBS builder of the year!
> 
> * Of course, he'll lose his crown in about a month here, but still...*
> 
> ...


Walt, you should vent your work area better. Short term memory's kickin in.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Hey SG,

What exactly are the criteria and process for "builder of the year"?

I don't build for profit, thus I cannot show at NAHBS, but I wager my bikes can go head to head and beat most of the feild. Is it all up to Don? Who votes? Where does the pool of canditates come from? If a bike is welded, is that an automatic DQ? If the bike has gears, is that points off?


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## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

klondikebike said:


> NIce lines in the back.:thumbsup:
> Any issues with the fork not clearing the DT?


Thanks
No it doesn't even come close to clearing but we knew that when we built it. The fork was more of an experiment than anything else.
CJB


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

pvd said:


> Hey SG,
> 
> What exactly are the criteria and process for "builder of the year"?
> 
> I don't build for profit, thus I cannot show at NAHBS, but I wager my bikes can go head to head and beat most of the feild. Is it all up to Don? Who votes? Where does the pool of canditates come from? If a bike is welded, is that an automatic DQ? If the bike has gears, is that points off?


ahhhhh......PVD. you'll have to ask the man behind the curtain about that one...........i heard the possible winner of the FOTY, and fyi, he TIG's. also, if the picture of the green 650b you posted over on frameforum is typical of your work, then i would say your bird-poop TIG beads alone would rule you out. sorry, but it's true. what part of the field are you out to "beat?" if you want to go head-to-head with the TIG welders alone, i would have to say that you would have your ass handed to you on a plate by rock lobster, mike desalvo, carl strong, kent erikson, vicious cycles, peacock groove, soulcraft, or sycip......... take your pick! steve.


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## klondikebike (Jul 11, 2006)

pvd said:


> Hey SG,
> 
> What exactly are the criteria and process for "builder of the year"?
> 
> I don't build for profit, thus I cannot show at NAHBS, but I wager my bikes can go head to head and beat most of the feild. Is it all up to Don? Who votes? Where does the pool of canditates come from? If a bike is welded, is that an automatic DQ? If the bike has gears, is that points off?


Some guys just don't get IT.
Humilty is part of the equation too y'know.....


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

Treybiker said:


> Are you talking about the green machine (you said bike on the right)? The funky orange FS with the whacked out "Pivot gear" looks pretty interesting.


Ah yeah, sorry, I seem to be suffering from 'baby brain' (half day stay-at-home dad to a 6 month old) - I meant the one on the left.

This is how the idea started out (badly)......










This is how it ended up (not quite so badly)......










All ancient history now of course, but a lot of fun to design and build, and of course the stupidest way to do your 'debut' frame under a new brand.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

coconinocycles said:


> ...if the picture of the green 650b you posted over on frameforum is typical of your work, then i would say your bird-poop TIG beads alone would rule you out.


Some people make jewlery. I make weapons. There is a heck of a lot more to a bike than 40 hours of filing and a $1200 paint job. I can play that game. That's the easy part. I'm not the best welder out there (duh.), but the prize isn't 'welder of the year'. My bikes are meticulously researched, designed, precision machined, well constructed, tested, and finished with only the finest Krylon satin black. I rarely touch them with a finish file.

My measure of a frame has a whole lot more to do with function that ornimentation, but I do understand that both should be needed (and I'd do ornimantation for judging). It's just not clear at all how the decisions are made and by who. Are they even riding these bikes? I just think that it's pretty interesting that as the first recipient of the FBOTY, you can't say how it happened.


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## eMcK (Aug 22, 2007)

Thylacine said:


> Ah yeah, sorry, I seem to be suffering from 'baby brain' (half day stay-at-home dad to a 6 month old) - I meant the one on the left.
> 
> This is how the idea started out (badly)......
> 
> ...


Is this any different than the many other variations of this idea we've seen in the past? Trek and Cannondale both did similar designs in DH bikes. I don't think the Cannondale ever made it to production, but the Trek did.


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

pvd said:


> Some people make jewlery. I make weapons. There is a heck of a lot more to a bike than 40 hours of filing and a $1200 paint job. I can play that game. That's the easy part. I'm not the best welder out there (duh.), but the prize isn't 'welder of the year'. My bikes are meticulously researched, designed, precision machined, well constructed, tested, and finished with only the finest Krylon satin black. I rarely touch them with a finish file.
> 
> My measure of a frame has a whole lot more to do with function that ornimentation, but I do understand that both should be needed (and I'd do ornimantation for judging). It's just not clear at all how the decisions are made and by who. Are they even riding these bikes? I just think that it's pretty interesting that as the first recipient of the FBOTY, you can't say how it happened.


it's not my deal, so i stay out of it. it's not something i wave around, i just do my thing. i just said "thank you" and felt extremely humbled to have one of my heroes, ross schafer, hand me the jersey with both of us tearing up. as far as "weapons", i think my rigs are as highly refined as they can be for the task for which they are intended. a guy just got back from riding his coconino from istanbul to beijing {the bosphorus strait to tienamen square!} and said he was comfortable the whole way. it's just that i did my research riding tens of thousands of miles on three continents on a touring bike or as a top ultra-endurance racer for over 20 years. ever ride 240 miles off-road in 24 hours? i have. ever do a 8:13 leadville, or a 9th or 10th place OVERALL at the cascade creampuff on a 1-speed? it will tell you alot about how a bike rides for the long haul. i did my testing and research in a saddle or with a torch in my hand, not with a mouse. oh yeah, i only file my frames about 10 hours, and a sycip paintjob takes me back<$150.00. so, i guess i don't measure up either. steve.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

I guess that we should take one anothers bikes out for a test ride.


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## vulture (Jan 13, 2004)

*my guess as to why steve won framebuilder of the year*

I don't know for sure but I'll bet some one from Frame forum threw some names out to other frame forum and nahbs folks and sorta thought that Garro did a damn nice job of building frames in 2006. Lots of folks built damn nice frames but somehow Steve's perseverance, determination and generally helpful attitude caught some eyes. For the **** that dude went thru and still built really sweet bikes. If I were you I would STFU about being the framebuilder of the year and just try being a framebuilder. Its not just about what kind of frame you build or how you build it, its about building frames and having character to back it up. I would however nominate you for downhill skateboard truck builder of the year. That crack about riding each others bikes was BS by the way. Get a clue auto cad rider.
wade.


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

eMcK said:


> Is this any different than the many other variations of this idea we've seen in the past? Trek and Cannondale both did similar designs in DH bikes. I don't think the Cannondale ever made it to production, but the Trek did.


Sure, it has many features those bikes don't.

It's just my current favourite bike creation. Not 'bike of the decade'.

However I'm _convinced_ my humble fun project completely invalidates Trek and C'dales offerings, just in the same way Turner invalidates Ellsworth :thumbsup:


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## SuspectDevice (Apr 12, 2004)

God, Why are there so many Jerks in the World? Two people here should quit *****ing and moaning...

My proudest stuff? Universal and Adaptive design is way, way more fun than silly mountainbikes, any day.








I wasted a solid 6 months on this. Doesn't show the finished seat sub-assembly. I cleaned that up a little too, and found a sail-maker who makes a great stretched-cotton seat. That bikes all specced, bent and mitered from straight- gauge 4130 by me. I built the production tooling, the reduction gearbox for the electric motor, and production wiring harnesses.

This is a re-design from this (previous iteration after climbing Mt Washington in 50min with a fat kid on board)









My redesign saved $600 in material costs, 12 hours of fabrication time per unit, 110 pounds of weight, increased range by an hour, and well, I think it looks better too.

If the dude who ran that company did a better job of marketing and promoting his stuff I'd probably not have re-started Spooky though. So I'm glad it got under-appreciated! I finished up a design for 6061 steering knuckles and pneumatic dampers to replace the die-sprung front suspension last night, but until the company owner gets mass-production sorted out those will have to sit on the bench.

Spending a half-year bending steel has further re-inforced my love of straight aluminum tubes though!


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

how fast does that go up hill? obviously battery powered.


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

That's really cool!

I messed around with the idea of something like that back when I was at Uni, but didn't have the skills, cash or time to do it. 14 week semesters is not a lot of time to accomplish projects like that.

Hybrids like yours are the future of transportation I think. Now we just have to get the road rules changed to allow them to be made and run on the roads (They're not legal here, however they might be wherever you are).

Did you look at utilising small petrol engines in your design, like the little Honda 4-strokes?


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

awesome stuff! i'll be lookin' to ask you some steering questions when i need to build a touring handcycle..........steve.


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## SuspectDevice (Apr 12, 2004)

pvd said:


> how fast does that go up hill? obviously battery powered.


It all depends on the gearing, both the final drive and in the reduction gearbox, and the battery chemistry and controller. By law we couldn't ship bikes with more than 1000watts of electric assist. that's not a ton when you factor in an 80lb weight of the bike.

With current controller, motor and battery options we have the ability to put 20,000 watts to the rear wheel (26 horsepower). 217 watts/kg for a fit rider is pretty much the same power to weight ratio as dynamite... With current battery technology, and appropriate gearing we calculated that I (light pro bike racer-type) could ride it up Washington at an average of 35mph, so about 13 minutes. If I didn't blow up the tires from braking forces and fall off the side of the earth that is...

Flat ground with fairing and the silly race spec It will hit 60mph in a little less than 4 seconds.

It's a good way to lose some skin, that's for sure.


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## SuspectDevice (Apr 12, 2004)

coconinocycles said:


> awesome stuff! i'll be lookin' to ask you some steering questions when i need to build a touring handcycle..........steve.


Centerpoint steering is the way to go. Lots of good info on it out on the interweb. My partner Niall was telling me you have one of Augsburger's One-Off trikes. Those things are a real hoot. Mike is the guy who set up the frame building program at our college, and one hell of an amazing, eccentric character. He has a loft at his new shop full of the most jaw-droppingly bizzare Ti stuff I've ever seen. Makes it seem like it's all been done before... And probably in Massachusetts!


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## Live Wire (Aug 27, 2007)

vulture said:


> I don't know for sure but I'll bet some one from Frame forum threw some names out to other frame forum and nahbs folks and sorta thought that Garro did a damn nice job of building frames in 2006. Lots of folks built damn nice frames but somehow Steve's perseverance, determination and generally helpful attitude caught some eyes. For the **** that dude went thru and still built really sweet bikes. If I were you I would STFU about being the framebuilder of the year and just try being a framebuilder. Its not just about what kind of frame you build or how you build it, its about building frames and having character to back it up. I would however nominate you for downhill skateboard truck builder of the year. That crack about riding each others bikes was BS by the way. Get a clue auto cad rider.
> wade.


what Wade said:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

SuspectDevice said:


> could ride it up Washington at an average of 35mph.


awsome!


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

pvd said:


> Some people make jewlery. I make weapons. There is a heck of a lot more to a bike than 40 hours of filing and a $1200 paint job. I can play that game. That's the easy part. I'm not the best welder out there (duh.), but the prize isn't 'welder of the year'. My bikes are meticulously researched, designed, precision machined, well constructed, tested, and finished with only the finest Krylon satin black. I rarely touch them with a finish file.
> 
> My measure of a frame has a whole lot more to do with function that ornimentation, but I do understand that both should be needed (and I'd do ornimantation for judging). It's just not clear at all how the decisions are made and by who. Are they even riding these bikes? I just think that it's pretty interesting that as the first recipient of the FBOTY, you can't say how it happened.


AGAIN, you need one giant dose of STFU


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

One picture is worth a thousand words:


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

pvd said:


> One picture is worth a thousand words:


i'm a lurker and not a builder (yet. i really want to though).

i thought you did more work on the backsides of your cable guides. that aint Krylon satin black.

nice to see a frame with a pump peg.


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## Treybiker (Jan 6, 2004)

I am a person that believes in function over fashion, so I see where PVD gets off on why his welds aren't perfect and his paint is crap (sorry, but....), but serves it's function.

HOWEVER, what he does is as a hobbiest, not a frame builder, (but with some practice welding, a good painter and some people skills, who knows?). A true frame builder is someone who takes the frame from raw form to a finished product and not giving less than 100% of effort in craftmanship and upmost detail. 

So before we knock his welds, or PVD even dream about entering a custom "Rattle Can" special at NAHBS, (Theme from Beverly Hillbillies just stuck in my head), lets not get too carried away with the insults. This is by far my favorite forum and I'm not a builder, but hopefully a future hobbiest, so you may have to look at my junk welds someday. :yikes:


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

pvd said:


> but I wager my bikes can go head to head and beat most of the feild.


Ok dude.

First pic = PVD weld 

Second pic = some other guy's welds...


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

Treybiker said:


> So before we knock his welds, or PVD even dream about entering a custom "Rattle Can" special at NAHBS, (Theme from Beverly Hillbillies just stuck in my head), lets not get too carried away with the insults. This is by far my favorite forum and I'm not a builder, but hopefully a future hobbiest, so you may have to look at my junk welds someday. :yikes:


I'm a hobbiest framebuilder too, and my welds looks like "bird poop" as Steve so aptly named them, but I don't make unrealistic (read egotistical) statements that my frames are better than most in the business...


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh, and nice to see you on these boards Steve G. :thumbsup:


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

SuspectDevice said:


> Centerpoint steering is the way to go. Lots of good info on it out on the interweb. My partner Niall was telling me you have one of Augsburger's One-Off trikes. Those things are a real hoot. Mike is the guy who set up the frame building program at our college, and one hell of an amazing, eccentric character. He has a loft at his new shop full of the most jaw-droppingly bizzare Ti stuff I've ever seen. Makes it seem like it's all been done before... And probably in Massachusetts!


yeah, i've been doing 4-6 hour singletrack rides on it a couple of times a week for going on 2 years...... i'm getting to where i can rip it pretty good - 3 wheel drifts, wheelie-ing obstacles........ect.........i can do drops steeper then a mtb an long as air is not involved, and do most trails i used to ride. i want to make an off road hand cycle like the more traditinal design {schmicking} to tour off-road on, esp. after seeing herriman do the tour de croc on a handcycle. my biggest visualisation problems are the front fork goemetry/rake/ht angle and the steering.braking/shifting concepts. there are not handcycle building forums, and most of the dudes who find them selves in one were not fabricators previously { except al berg } or are no longer bodily able to build, or do not own a "hobbit shop" {thanks, rody} to build in. {you should see live wire work in it.........a 6' + guy in a shop built for someone 4' tall!! } also, building frames full-time makes taking time to do all the r&d and fab-ing everything by hand prohibitive. it took mike 10 years to get the one-off where it is now. him & leni are awesome folks......got to hang with the a bunch at the world championships this year.... as far as just buying one......if you think bikes are expensive, check out adaptive equipment. i think my oneoff was a deal at $5000. 2 schlumphs, s&s coupling, phil custom hubs.........and the frame is CRAZY. steve.


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

indigosky said:


> Oh, and nice to see you on these boards Steve G. :thumbsup:


thanks, indigo! i thought i'd check it out. probally won't hang out for long unless there's more threads on fabrication techniques and less fingerpointing/badmouthing and q's on how to repair you broken aluminum FS ride..........just not my thing. i've been trying to cover building techniques more thoroughly on my blog, www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com since frame forum went down. www.groovycycleworks.blogspot.com is putting up some great stuff too........steve.


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

pvd said:


> Some people make jewlery. I make weapons. There is a heck of a lot more to a bike than 40 hours of filing and a $1200 paint job. I can play that game. That's the easy part. I'm not the best welder out there (duh.), but the prize isn't 'welder of the year'. My bikes are meticulously researched, designed, precision machined, well constructed, tested, and finished with only the finest Krylon satin black. I rarely touch them with a finish file.
> 
> My measure of a frame has a whole lot more to do with function that ornimentation, but I do understand that both should be needed (and I'd do ornimantation for judging). It's just not clear at all how the decisions are made and by who. Are they even riding these bikes? I just think that it's pretty interesting that as the first recipient of the FBOTY, you can't say how it happened.


Good looking welds typically mean good penetration and good control. Bird Poop typically means sloppy work. I dont TIG, so I got nothin but critique here.

Also, on your fork shown below, its obvious of carelessness, when you have an "oops" contact in the middle of the blade, not near the joint. That is not good for structure OR appearance....


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

chequamagon said:


> Good looking welds typically mean good penetration and good control. Bird Poop typically means sloppy work. I dont TIG, so I got nothin but critique here.
> 
> Also, on your fork shown below, its obvious of carelessness, when you have an "oops" contact in the middle of the blade, not near the joint. That is not good for structure OR appearance....


yeah.......if you've ever spent any time around guns, you will have noticed that the fabrication on firearms is the highest quality so you don't get really hurt.........ditto on bicycles. steve.


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## SuspectDevice (Apr 12, 2004)

coconinocycles said:


> yeah, i've been doing 4-6 hour singletrack rides on it a couple of times a week for going on 2 years...... i'm getting to where i can rip it pretty good - 3 wheel drifts, wheelie-ing obstacles........ect.........i can do drops steeper then a mtb an long as air is not involved, and do most trails i used to ride. i want to make an off road hand cycle like the more traditinal design {schmicking} to tour off-road on, esp. after seeing herriman do the tour de croc on a handcycle. my biggest visualisation problems are the front fork goemetry/rake/ht angle and the steering.braking/shifting concepts. there are not handcycle building forums, and most of the dudes who find them selves in one were not fabricators previously { except al berg } or are no longer bodily able to build, or do not own a "hobbit shop" {thanks, rody} to build in. {you should see live wire work in it.........a 6' + guy in a shop built for someone 4' tall!! } also, building frames full-time makes taking time to do all the r&d and fab-ing everything by hand prohibitive. it took mike 10 years to get the one-off where it is now. him & leni are awesome folks......got to hang with the a bunch at the world championships this year.... as far as just buying one......if you think bikes are expensive, check out adaptive equipment. i think my oneoff was a deal at $5000. 2 schlumphs, s&s coupling, phil custom hubs.........and the frame is CRAZY. steve.


I've raced a few hand-cycle crits (used to promote on here in downtown Northampton as a fundraiser for my girlfriends Universal Access non-profit), but I really am just to scrawny and too weak-backed to make much use of the One-Off. You need a relatively low injury to be able to effectively steer. A more "touring" style bike is really needed for a lot of folks, and would be more comfortable for not-quite as nutty riding.

It's like the 29er solution for off-road handcycling. It probably involves enough triangulated space frames, bent tubes, linkage design, steering damping and calculus to keep a whole army of folks busy for a year or so. It'd be a heck of a cool project though. One where I could really see some good applications for composite structures (a composite "rider tub" that has suspended wheels anchored from it). Lowering and distributing the riders center of mass, and balancing pedaling forces against steering forces I think can be easily accomplished, but it is going to take radical construction methods and a lot of brain-time.

Sure would be nice if there was a bigger market for them, that's for sure! I look at stuff like trikes, electric stuff and handcycles as fun design and fab projects, and excellent ways to evaluate my ability to think about structures, ergonomics and material applications in ways that are both mentally engaging and beneficial to the "trad" bikes I build or design.

Spooky isn't a custom shop in that sense, I have to focus on trying to make and sell bikes profitably, but thats why we have cycling _communities_, I am purposely situated in an academic and fabricators Eden so that I can be involved with fun development projects.


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## Live Wire (Aug 27, 2007)

*Well, my favorite frame.....*

always seems to be whatever I'm doing at the time. I obsess about all the details, angles, etc- then it's done and I'm ready for a new obsession! I'm so fickle....

Here's the one I finished yesterday. A "cross" bike with mega tire clearance, Tange Prestige, done with those archaic brass fillets!:cornut:


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

chequamagon said:


> ...I dont TIG...


Right. You don't. You don't know much.

There is a big difference between an entirely functional weld and a really pretty weld. If neither of them will ever fail, then the difference is mearly cosmetic. When you know this, you know when you can rush a job through and have it work just fine. In a machine shop, this is called a loose tolerance. Spending the extra time for precision when it will not improve performance is not an economical decision. Have any of you actually worked in industry? I do some bike builds that use very cheap materials and I rush the welding. Why? Because my time is very important to me and I am usually interested more in the ride quality or the geometry rather than being pretty and I want to ride the bike that night. I can do pretty. Again, pretty is easy. A good riding bike is hard.

btw. That was not a mistaken weld on the tube. It was a vent hole that was filled. Again, you wouldn't know that.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

Live Wire said:


> always seems to be whatever I'm doing at the time. I obsess about all the details, angles, etc- then it's done and I'm ready for a new obsession! I'm so fickle....
> 
> Here's the one I finished yesterday. A "cross" bike with mega tire clearance, Tange Prestige, done with those archaic brass fillets!:cornut:


Nice looking, love the seatstay bridge.

Here's mine:


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## klondikebike (Jul 11, 2006)

indigosky said:


> Nice looking, love the seatstay bridge.
> 
> Here's mine:


Nice work man! That your own steed? How tall are you?
Here's my own personal ride i built up last summer. Mega stiff torsionally, but still compliant. No wobble at all at 70KmH downhill, no hands.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

klondikebike said:


> Nice work man! That your own steed? How tall are you?
> Here's my own personal ride i built up last summer. Mega stiff torsionally, but still compliant. No wobble at all at 70KmH downhill, no hands.


6'-2" The carbon steerer tube didn't need to be cut. Crazy tall head tube, but it fits really well.


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## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

Ok then, on to the topic of road bikes.......





.


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## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

pvd said:


> Right. You don't. You don't know much.
> 
> There is a big difference between an entirely functional weld and a really pretty weld. If neither of them will ever fail, then the difference is mearly cosmetic. When you know this, you know when you can rush a job through and have it work just fine. In a machine shop, this is called a loose tolerance. Spending the extra time for precision when it will not improve performance is not an economical decision. Have any of you actually worked in industry? I do some bike builds that use very cheap materials and I rush the welding. Why? Because my time is very important to me and I am usually interested more in the ride quality or the geometry rather than being pretty and I want to ride the bike that night. I can do pretty. Again, pretty is easy. A good riding bike is hard.


Wow. I've TIG welded, fillet brazed and built lugged frames and when i was learning i was always told by both professional framebuilders and professional welders/fabricators that the appearance of the fillet (welded or brazed) and the joint quality/penetration go hand in hand. The pic of one of your fork dropouts and disc brake mounts shows poor control because the weld isn't straight and the beads aren't equally spaced. I've been impressed with some of the work and ideas you've posted on here previously and while i wouldn't consider myself an expert, i think i have enough training and knowledge to recognise aspects of good quality workmanship. After reading the above paragraph describing your frame building ideas i would never ride a bike built by you.

Sorry mate, but my idea is to do the best work you can all of the time so that you could become more proficient and efficient, not hack away at cheaper jobs and hope you get your skills up for the more expensive jobs. Again, that's just my way of thinking.


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

You know, some of the early Thylacines were welded by a well known fabricator in Iowa. Horrible looking welds, but they're all still in service, one in particular is a singlespeed under the bum of a Melbourne courier that's probably done 30k or more hard earned kms.

We've had other frames built by a respected fabricator with very pretty welds that haven't lasted 5 months.

Someone on this BBS has a sig by Grant Petersen stating that exact same fact - you CANNOT tell the functionality of a weld just from looking at it. It's an anecdotal indicator, but that's it.

Cranky, your argument on workmanship holds water with me though, especially considering it takes about 45mins to weld up a steel frame. Especially important to find that extra 15 minutes of 'tight tolerance' considering how long pictures of stuff stay on the Internet for!


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Thylacine said:


> You know, some of the early Thylacines were welded by a well known fabricator in Iowa. Horrible looking welds, but they're all still in service
> 
> ...We've had other frames built by a respected fabricator with very pretty welds that haven't lasted 5 months.
> 
> ...


That's what I'm talking about. X-ray has always been the measure of good welding, not looks. My point has been that it's fine to make a sloppy weld, it just has to hold. duh. Also, pretty welding and paint is not the only way to judge FBOTY. I'm not the best welder. It takes me a bit more time than 45 minutes to weld a frame with pretty welds. I can do it, but not that fast. So I make servicable welds most of the time, they get better and faster all the time. At least my bikes are properly welded and not glued together with brass.

I post a lot of my projects online. I give every critic a chance to poor over my work, no matter how hack the project was or how long ago. People dig enough on my site and they can fine all kinds of goofs and burps. BUT, it's not being censored, I'm not so shallow to hide my bad work and show only my good. Most people do the opposite. Some people think of this as a 'gotcha!'. I don't think this way. I'm giving a lot of people a lot of information that they can learn from.


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

pvd said:


> That's what I'm talking about. X-ray has always been the measure of good welding, not looks. My point has been that it's fine to make a sloppy weld, it just has to hold. duh. well.......you mat think that cuz i choose to braze means i don't know about welding..........i grew up around welding. my grandpa was a professional welder for almost 50 years, and my dad was a boiler welder for almost 40. you are not going to pass the boiler welding exams laying glorpy beads. like many things in life, the strength and the beauty go hand in hand. those old cats are damn proud of how their welds look! steve.


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## klondikebike (Jul 11, 2006)

> At least my bikes are properly welded and not glued together with brass.


WTF does this mean?? Have you submitted test coupons of your TIG welds to AWS certifed inspectors for certification? "Properly" is pretty subjective don't you think?
You imply TIG is a superior joining method to brazing. Is it??. Properly brazed joints are not just "glued" together, the Brass forms an interstitial bond with the parent metal. Fred Parrs Fillet Pro is an uber brazing material. Try ripping a FB'd joint apart and see what happens. Busted CroMo.
Dude, you have so much good stuff to offer, why do you insist on putting others down so much? Chill. Have a beer.


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## eMcK (Aug 22, 2007)

klondikebike said:


> Dude, you have so much good stuff to offer, why do you insist on putting others down so much?


Ego.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

klondikebike said:


> Dude, you have so much good stuff to offer, why do you insist on putting others down so much?


I'm not putting anybody down. Some people can't afford a real TIG machine or don't have enough skill to make a TIG joint. A oxy/ace setup will get people up and running with brass and then one day they can move on to real welding.


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## SuspectDevice (Apr 12, 2004)

PVD Guy,
Why? Why be inflamatory? Lowering the level of discourse to slinging crap doesn't accomplish a darn thing. I'm just a kid, and I get that.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

SuspectDevice said:


> Spooky isn't a custom shop in that sense, I have to focus on trying to make and sell bikes profitably, but thats why we have cycling _communities_, I am purposely situated in an academic and fabricators Eden so that I can be involved with fun development projects.


Almost signiture worthy Mickey !

Does Spokey even have "a shop"

Do you really build bikes or are they "outsourced" hate to remind you but to turn a profit you need 2 things 
1. Capitol to build said production run
2. Bikes to sell

Please clarify the double speak.


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

pvd said:


> That's what I'm talking about. X-ray has always been the measure of good welding, not looks. My point has been that it's fine to make a sloppy weld, it just has to hold. duh. Also, pretty welding and paint is not the only way to judge FBOTY. I'm not the best welder. It takes me a bit more time than 45 minutes to weld a frame with pretty welds. I can do it, but not that fast. So I make servicable welds most of the time, they get better and faster all the time. At least my bikes are properly welded and not glued together with brass.
> 
> I post a lot of my projects online. I give every critic a chance to poor over my work, no matter how hack the project was or how long ago. People dig enough on my site and they can fine all kinds of goofs and burps. BUT, it's not being censored, I'm not so shallow to hide my bad work and show only my good. Most people do the opposite. Some people think of this as a 'gotcha!'. I don't think this way. I'm giving a lot of people a lot of information that they can learn from.


All welds aside, there is something Steve has that you will never get. And it is a good part of what made him framebuilder of the year:

He is a real nice guy.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Steve seems like a really nice guy. You do not.


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## Treybiker (Jan 6, 2004)

Geez. 

PVD, when your mom made you a birthday cake on your 6th birthday, were you ok with the crooked uneven icing on the borders, but if the corner wasn't a perfect 90 degrees you would throw it in her face and tell her she was an inferior waste of space and that it was an act of god that she had such a superior child?

Just curious.


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## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

STOP

Just when I thought things were getting back on track with this thread.....

I started this thread as a way for us to showcase some things we were proud of. Things we created and that could be admired by each other. Instead it turns into a pissing/moaning/dong-measuring contest (without any pictures no less). After all pics of things we are proud of was the original intent. 

So please take ya'lls thread hyjacking BS to another location. I'd like to see some more photos of bikes here instead.



.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Treybiker said:


> Geez.
> 
> PVD, when your mom made you a birthday cake on your 6th birthday, were you ok with the crooked uneven icing on the borders, but if the corner wasn't a perfect 90 degrees you would throw it in her face and tell her she was an inferior waste of space and that it was an act of god that she had such a superior child?
> 
> Just curious.


I'm glad that you are able to find a way to personally instult me rather than my ideas. Have I attacked you personally? No. You even bring my mother into it. chequamagon is a real douchebag that has been riding my ass and attacking me for months with nothing truely constructive to offer other than attacking me. You show show up and think that you can pile on with him. You are way out of line.

I attack ideas, not people. Take a look back and see what people say about me and also what I say about them. You will quickly see that people quickly find a way to answer my questions about their ideas with personal attacks. Over and over. It is so childish.

I may hate someones bikes or their ideas, but I really only hate Don Walker and Neil Hassan. They earned it. Hundreds of people have insulted me on this message board and I would only bother to tell them to go [email protected] themselves. They are just a waste of my time.

I'd be more than happy to share a pitcher of beer with Steve or anyone else and tell them everything that I hate or like about their bikes or their concepts. Telling someone you hate their work is not a personal insult just as telling someone you like their work is not a personal compliment.


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## SuspectDevice (Apr 12, 2004)

Evil4bc said:


> Almost signiture worthy Mickey !
> 
> Does Spokey even have "a shop"
> 
> ...


Yessir, We (fellow Hampshire College alum Niall and I) have a shop in Easthampton MA that is gradually getting populated with the detritus of the industrial age. 
At the moment we are building steel stuff at the machine shop at our alma-matter in exchange for teaching bike building(niall) and history and design classes(me), we run some other mitering and polishing operations at the Tricycle Factory where I used to work. Using other peoples machines for basically free is great. Except when they get broken by students...

Our tool collection is rapidly growing, and by the time we get the lathe plugged in to turn the purge fittings for the Anvil later this month here at the shop we should have the capacity to produce 30 custom frames per month in house in Steel, Aluminum and Ti.

Chris Herting is building frames in 7005 out at 3D at the moment, and we will certainly continue working with other smaller outside vendors to meet demand and do the things we do best.

The big freaking hurdle and time sink in this operation has been designing, creating and implementing a financial instrument to finance the production of frames in 3 models and seven sizes that we have PO's for at SAPA in Portland. It's a lot of money, and we are paying for the frames 100% on order (as we are too young and in debt from college to get net terms). I managed to figure that one out too, while maintaining 100% ownership in the company, And it feels good. 
The end result is that we get the best product in the world, made in the most transparent and sustainable manner and use the profit from the sale of those products to further build our local community, reduce the US trade deficit, create meaningful local jobs for skilled labor and intellectuals, and most importantly make bikes that are fun to ride, that have features that we couldn't otherwise offer, like full custom butted 6061 tubesets. Bikes that are free from any and all compromises and exactly how we envision them.

I re-started this company with a $150 in the bank back in May. I don't intend on having anything more than that any time soon. The "company" needs it...

And as for me, Mickey, no I don't "build" bikes. I do make tools to make bikes, do the initial design and final approval on every product, source and spec all the tubing and machine parts on every project that carries or will carry the Spooky name. Occasionally I machine the tubes and set up the jigs, but I never took the time anywhere along the line in the last 12 years to learn how to Tig. I've always been too interested and good at the other aspects of the business, and Ive always worked closely with folks whose skills complemented mine so that it has remained unnecessary. 
Spooky is a multi-vendor operation, and we make it very, very clear where and by whom our bikes are built. It is something that I am proud of. I am proud of being able to buy the tools and rent the shop space to give my 22 year old partner the full run of his own facility. He deserves it, and more than anything I want him involved with the company so he can leave the operation as a fully established, respected and well known artisan.

My favorite part of being in the bike industry is communicating, collaborating and having fun with other like minded folks, so that's what I do.

Let's get back to talking about cool ****:thumbsup:


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## Treybiker (Jan 6, 2004)

pvd said:


> I'm glad that you are able to find a way to personally instult me rather than my ideas. Have I attacked you personally? No. You even bring my mother into it. chequamagon is a real douchebag that has been riding my ass and attacking me for months with nothing truely constructive to offer other than attacking me. You show show up and think that you can pile on with him. You are way out of line.
> 
> I attack ideas, not people. Take a look back and see what people say about me and also what I say about them. You will quickly see that people quickly find a way to answer my questions about their ideas with personal attacks. Over and over. It is so childish.
> 
> ...


I'll apologize for littering this thread, but I was trying to make a point rather than insult you. If you took it that way, there must be a reason. I've been in this industry going on 18 years (and it ain't for the money), and have never come across someone so glued to the inside of their box that they can't fathom the idea of someone's work being good if it's different from theirs. I've come on this thread to learn and observe, and seeing the way you "express" your opinions as insulting attacks OVER AND OVER AND OVER, gets old. You don't like brazing and keep calling it out. SO WHAT!!! Its fine not to like it, without "ATTACKING" it and anybody who does it to death unless it somehow affects your livelihood.

On the other hand, I think the stuff you've done and researched is so far above most people's thinking that I can't help but be impressed. You've gone to a lot of trouble to come up with the things you've created and researched not to mention thrown it on a website to share with the public for free.

My point is that it would be nice if you could try be a little more considerate and just try a little harder to have a positive impact here (attitude wise). You've earned a lot of respect with your work and attempts, but that'll only get you so far.

Once again I apologize for my momentary loss of control.


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## surlytman (Nov 9, 2005)

VERY cool insite!


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

Campy vs Shimano.

Discuss.

:thumbsup:


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

The sooner we can all get over PVD, the better this forum will be. Pete says he is playing the 'role' of an provocative framebuilder. If we choose to be irritated his comments, then every stinkin' thread will devolve into this... and nearly every thread has. He doesn't just prefer one method, he HATES all others. I'm sorta over being irritated by it, so now I just look to the next comment in the thread, hoping for something more pleasant.

Pete, please continue to contribute your work. I've seen some nice thought in what you've done and I see ways that you can take those ideas even further. I don't know why you have chosen to play the role of an instigator, rather than just presenting ideas and opinions in a kind way, but that's the way it is and I don't know what we can do about it. I have a feeling that most people would forgive and forget if you could just be Pete, and not PVD.

And here's a thing I like, but not necessarily my favorite creation:


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

You make frames out of frogs!!?!?!

:thumbsup:


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

pvd said:


> I'm glad that you are able to find a way to personally instult me rather than my ideas. Have I attacked you personally? No. You even bring my mother into it. chequamagon is a real douchebag that has been riding my ass and attacking me for months with nothing truely constructive to offer other than attacking me. You show show up and think that you can pile on with him. You are way out of line.
> 
> I attack ideas, not people. Take a look back and see what people say about me and also what I say about them. You will quickly see that people quickly find a way to answer my questions about their ideas with personal attacks. Over and over. It is so childish.
> 
> ...


 hate is counter productive. i don't even hate the person that sued me after they ran me over. steve.


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

pvd said:


> I'm glad that you are able to find a way to personally instult me rather than my ideas. Have I attacked you personally? No. You even bring my mother into it. chequamagon is a real douchebag that has been riding my ass and attacking me for months with nothing truely constructive to offer other than attacking me. You show show up and think that you can pile on with him. You are way out of line.
> 
> I attack ideas, not people. Take a look back and see what people say about me and also what I say about them. You will quickly see that people quickly find a way to answer my questions about their ideas with personal attacks. Over and over. It is so childish.
> 
> I may hate someones bikes or their ideas, but I really only hate Don Walker and Neil Hassan. They earned it. Hundreds of people have insulted me on this message board and I would only bother to tell them to go [email protected] themselves. They are just a waste of my time.


BS. You only get crap from me because I lump back onto you, what you do to others. All you do here is tell everyone how stupid they are and how smart you are.

All the insults and hate you bring here do nothing but make you look like an @$$


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## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

D.F.L. said:


> The sooner we can all get over PVD, the better this forum will be. Pete says he is playing the 'role' of an provocative framebuilder. If we choose to be irritated his comments, then every stinkin' thread will devolve into this... and nearly every thread has. He doesn't just prefer one method, he HATES all others. I'm sorta over being irritated by it, so now I just look to the next comment in the thread, hoping for something more pleasant.
> 
> Pete, please continue to contribute your work. I've seen some nice thought in what you've done and I see ways that you can take those ideas even further. I don't know why you have chosen to play the role of an instigator, rather than just presenting ideas and opinions in a kind way, but that's the way it is and I don't know what we can do about it. I have a feeling that most people would forgive and forget if you could just be Pete, and not PVD.
> 
> And here's a thing I like, but not necessarily my favorite creation:


That is a cool disc tab...me likey!


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## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

Ok les try this again......



CBaron said:


> STOP
> 
> Just when I thought things were getting back on track with this thread.....
> 
> ...


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## klondikebike (Jul 11, 2006)

This is my fav MTB frame. Built it last year. The colour, the curvy stays, it all just "worked" The dude was stoked too.


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

*nice work!*

just what we've come to expect from you, paul! are you still using out-of-the-box ss's, or bending your own? steve.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2008)

coconinocycles said:


> hate is counter productive. i don't even hate the person that sued me after they ran me over. steve.


Wait a sec, YOU got sued, after you got hit!?!?!?!? WTF is wrong with this country?


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## playpunk (Apr 1, 2005)

klondikebike said:


> This is my fav MTB frame. Built it last year. The colour, the curvy stays, it all just "worked" The dude was stoked too.


curvy stays are hawt.


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## klondikebike (Jul 11, 2006)

Thanks gents. 
Steve, its all BYO dude 
But, y'know, when you can chat to guys with experience like Steve, Walt, Rody over at Groovy and others, it makes it a [email protected] sight seasier to overcome the problems inherent in bending your own stays.:thumbsup:
I had been using some .6wall stays, but they were a PITA to bend with my current set up; too many scrapped stays with kinks. The .8 wall stays from Lon are sooooo much easier to deal with. 19mm for the burlier frames, and 16mm for the smaller frames.
Cheers
Paul


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

Keep the photos and stories of the good work coming - and less e-arguing.

I'm enjoying the frames and other projects immensely - the e-arguing I can live without.

That disc tab/bottle opener kicks ass - it made me want to end my day early - sneak in a short ride and follow that off with a brew! Now that's good inspiration through design.


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## MikeyLikesIt (Dec 9, 2007)

D.F.L. said:


> ...And here's a thing I like, but not necessarily my favorite creation:


Bottle/beer opener? If it is...I really like it.


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## jace (Sep 5, 2004)

SuspectDevice said:


> My favorite part of being in the bike industry is communicating, collaborating and having fun with other like minded folks, so that's what I do.


Mickey, just wanted to let you know how refreshing your comments are.
Spooky was my counterculture icon when I first started riding and racing as a high schooler in the mid 90s. 
When I had my first custom frame built (by our very own D.F.L.) it was basically the Darkside (in steel, with an ebb) I never got to own.

I'm very excited to see the brand fittingly, ethically, and competently reborn. (and hopefully building some 29ers.) 
Really, best of luck.

Now who's got more sweet crap to post?


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## thadthetroll (Jan 22, 2004)

*Here`s one..*

Without chain in this pic...Gabe may have already posted it,if so sorry bout the repeat.
This is great for bar-hopping,bike taxi-ing folks around interesting downtown areas..
like Asheville..


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Thad-

Thats awsome.


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## ong (Jun 26, 2006)

That's pretty sweet, Thad! Does the passenger just hold on the bar on the left side? I drive people around on my Xtracycle a lot, and have "stoker bars" on my seatpost, but this looks more comfortable for the passenger!


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Cool- something very different and original. How do you transfer drive from the cranks to the wheel? I don`t see any chain, rings, belt or shaft. Did you investigate mounting the side car wheel by one side rather than running the fork around it? It would look cleaner (IMO) that way, but might not be worth the trouble.


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## ong (Jun 26, 2006)

There's a spider there -- I assumed he just hadn't mounted rings and a chain yet.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Seeing that hack style brought back memories when I was racing my Webco framed BMX SideHack what a blast that was. This was the closest I could find. :cornut::cornut:


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

Those old school BMX'rs were the inspiration.......we just added a seat.


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## Treybiker (Jan 6, 2004)

dogonfr said:


> Seeing that hack style brought back memories when I was racing my Webco framed BMX SideHack what a blast that was. This was the closest I could find. :cornut::cornut:


Hmmm, from the time that bike was around and the quality of that pic, I'm guessing thats a recent pic and you still have that. Saweet!


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Treybiker said:


> Hmmm, from the time that bike was around and the quality of that pic, I'm guessing thats a recent pic and you still have that. Saweet!


I wish that was mine  Thats a Mongoose with a Little John SideHack, mine was a Webco frame. I thought I had a Webco hack but from searching the web the Little John looks exactly as I remember. The brain aint what it used to be though. :cornut:

We ran the Moto Mags & it was a tank so we went to spoked wheels & they flexed & bent. We ended back with the Moto Mags. My first monkey was awesome he could out push my pedaling so we were almost always 1st into turn one plus he always was there for the whole ride. The 2nd monkey that came on would constantly bail when it got sketchy leaving me on my own, not a good thing on a hack. :rockon:


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## thadthetroll (Jan 22, 2004)

*Hack-stuff*

We made the hack wheel adjustable to try to figure out the best position for the hack wheel to be in relation to "monkey" drive axel,etc. We were trying to establish the position for best handling based on real world feel.
We had already built 3 other street hacks chopping up old frames we built quite a while ago. The one pictured is a "ground-up" purpose built rig that works pretty well.
We are building another from scratch and it is in the "fillet" cleaning phase now and we
will have it rolling by early spring. It will be the best one yet and i will be sure the chain is on it before i take a pic of it.
Bar-hopping craziness anyone...and if the "monkey" ever bails well....terror for sure.
However the one pictured can be ridden one-up very easily by keeping the hack wheel elevated kinda riding it on the side of the saddle....


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## Brown_Teeth (Jan 15, 2004)

I took it one step further...:thumbsup:



thadthetroll said:


> Without chain in this pic...Gabe may have already posted it,if so sorry bout the repeat.
> This is great for bar-hopping,bike taxi-ing folks around interesting downtown areas..
> like Asheville..


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

Brown_Teeth said:


> I took it one step further...:thumbsup:


Very cool...........a "bike" hauling bikes. :thumbsup:


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## Brown_Teeth (Jan 15, 2004)

At times I pick up 5 kids at school 3.5 miles away. I make some ride others get out to push me up the big hills. In town I hook up the dog for more power, just got another mutt so even more power soon


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

indigosky said:


> Ok dude.
> 
> First pic = PVD weld
> 
> Second pic = some other guy's welds...


I have No idea who PVD is...
I have never see his work except for the fork on the picture that you post, but I can tell you something.

Over the last 30 years of making things I have meet a incredible amount of people, most of them fantastic workers with Impeccable performance and skills but many of them also clueless in terms of the "Why's" on the object the are working on (don't ask me why, but is a very common trend)..

On the other hand I know a few gals & guys like me, Yeah total hacks compare with the Masters of the Craft., that lack the "How" skills (they can always be learn, with practice and dedication, to be at least decent), but somehow understand the Why's or at least they Ponder about the multiple consequences of their actions..

Ideally you will combine the *"how"* & *"Why"* and I give you a few names if you like.

But If you ask me I prefer to be on the side of the Person that know the reason to make something on a certain way, than the one that can make it "perfect" (cosmetically, even structurally) but has no idea why is doing it in the first place, he is "robot" that can be replace with a "real Robot" when the real creator of the dream is far more difficult to imitate..

Then again are people that are Clueless on the How's and also the Why's, but even then at least they are trying to get better and that need to count for something.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Cool, Brownteeth! Great build. What did the little differential come out of? Extra points if you stole the pew out of the neighborhood church.


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## Brown_Teeth (Jan 15, 2004)

Actually the rear bench seat is suspended by some coil shocks, and its all steel constuction. The differencial was bought online at a surplus site for 20$ (shipping was twice that), rated for 5 HP, I think they were originally for riding lawn mowers. The bearings and 1 inch hollow axle is simple go-cart technology. Used an old diamond back frame and welded up the back with box tube for ease of welding. The key was making the rear hub into a jack shaft, the disc brake tab on the hub solved that. Also the head tube rake was important so it can turn around its own length yet not get any speed wobble. Upgraded the rear hydrolics to a Ninja 1000 moto lever. I'm running a go cart rear caliper cause it has springs on it to fully retract the pads after use so no drag. Got it up to 35 mph on the hills, smooth as silk. I have 3000 miles on it, very practical in town kid hauler and I get to use the bike rack right in front of the supermarkets. I hook the mutt up for extra power for the hills. I get plenty of goofy looks from people in the wheeled coffins


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## ong (Jun 26, 2006)

That's pretty awesome, Brown_Teeth! Any idea how much that rig weighs? And I gripe about my 40 lb. Xtracycle on the hills...


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## Brown_Teeth (Jan 15, 2004)

Its in the 120 lbs range since the box tubing used was thick. I have hauled up to 500 added pounds plus I weight 200 so biggest load about 800 pounds. I had to put a 30% reduction on the jackshaft to make it up hills at snail speed (walkers are faster at times). On flat ground its fast and easy to keep a 10 mph clip on hills well I get to sweat it out or better yet kick the kids out and make them push me up the hill home.


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

Brown_Teeth said:


> Its in the 120 lbs range since the box tubing used was thick. I have hauled up to 500 added pounds plus I weight 200 so biggest load about 800 pounds. I had to put a 30% reduction on the jackshaft to make it up hills at snail speed (walkers are faster at times). On flat ground its fast and easy to keep a 10 mph clip on hills well I get to sweat it out or better yet kick the kids out and make them push me up the hill home.


That bike has got me thinking............can you please provide more information as to how you came up with the rear axle and the overall drive train? :idea:


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Smokebikes said:


> That bike has got me thinking............can you please provide more information as to how you came up with the rear axle and the overall drive train? :idea:


If you like thanone, you better take a look *At THIS One*

No I did not make it, but is a really great work horse.









On the other hand this is very "Comercial" but provides really greast Features.

*TheTRIO Bike*


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## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

I built this 5-6 years ago. Its donors are a Trek 820 and a 50's vintage frame. I bought the 50's frame for $2 at a garage sale, and I paid $20 for the Trek from a guy I worked with (it ended up in his yard after a big storm).

I measured both frames all up, and drew them to scale in Autocad, and then I pieced them together in a way that I thought would work. I then printed the plan out 1:1 and took it over to my parents house. I stapled the plan sheet to a scrap piece of 1/2" plywood, and then began shimming it up, etc for my jig.

I did a terrible job of mitering the tubes, b/c at the time, I didn't know any better. My dad and I then began joining tubes. We started out on the Arc welder (again, didn't know any better) but couldn't get the amperage low enough to not blow thru the Trek tubes, so we moved to O/A and brass rod. The hardest part was getting the tubes from the old bike hot enough while not overheating the thinner Trek tubes (the old frame tubes are REALLY thick). The joints look like boogers, but they are still holding.

I bought the fork on Ebay, and the front wheel was scabbaged from a junked road bike I found down the street. The rear wheel is a SRAM 3-speed on a 36-hole Velocity that I bought for $60 used from a local guy who rode it on his MC Mutinyman. I bought the shifter for $10 while fixing bikes for Bikes and Trikes for Tikes one year. The seat (from a Schwinn Airdyne) was in the junk bin at a local shop - $10. I have switched the bars to ape hangers from another dumpster bike (they work much better), and the 3-speed is broken at the moment, b/c I let a friend ride it on a pub crawl and he laid it down on the drive side - one too many pints of Guiness. I think the coolest thing about the bike is the suicide shift AND brake in front of the seat.



















I built this bike too (with a little help from Mr. Badger himself), but I let Rob do all the brazing. 










FYI, Rob probably has more overally welding experience than half of the framebuilders out there, but he chooses to use brass most of the time. He feels that it's actually stronger than tig sometimes.


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## Brown_Teeth (Jan 15, 2004)

Trio is very cool and love to have one. Originally I wanted to make one but the classic trike was easier. In the old archives I had all the pictures of fabing the trike up. Seems the current search is only for the new postings. Here's a few more pictures.


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## Brown_Teeth (Jan 15, 2004)

Nice chopper, after a few ol' pints I'd drop that too


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

That is very cool........thanks for postin it.


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## MrCookie (Apr 24, 2005)

*Bikes*

Here are the two I am most proud of. 
I built this road bike for my mom who started doing tri-athlons (at age 50).
Then there is the Sherpa-Lized... Sherpa Scout mated to a childrens Specialized Hard Rock.
Easy to pick my bests since I really have only made 3 from scratch, and the mutant daddy-daughter tandem (that made it to one parade, and then got hacked into a ski bike for my brother).


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Wow! This thread has turned into a great showcase for some really COOL STUFF! Imagination by the boatload!

Patineto, I have to ask- does the link you put up have anything to do with AntbikeMike? It doesn`t look like his stuff, but the name is so close it makes me wonder.

Cookie, I really like your tandem- not near as pretty as your mom`s tribike but I think a glue-together tandem is going to be my next project before I go out on a limb to build a frame from scratch. Any pics of the "ski bike"?


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Brown_Teeth you running a Yamaha master with a Honda lever???


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## Brown_Teeth (Jan 15, 2004)

It was newly rebuilt on ebay for 20$, advertised as off a ninja 1000. I'm Moto unsavy but it works and love the adjustable reach. With the self retracting brake pads it likes to loose level only one the first pull. I cal live with that ;')


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## Solrac the red (Jul 24, 2007)

Here is my favorite creation, Vicious. A buddy did most of the welding, Tig, on this one, but I've since learned and welded two others myself. I designed and did all the fabrication. It's scratch built, including the stainless and aluminum springer fork. It's not a lightweight at 65 lbs, and it's almost 9 foot long. Yes it does take 2.5 lanes to turn around. lol The rear wheel is a Rigida 80mm wide rim with a Nexus 7 spd hub and 24x3 Electra Fatti-O tire. Paint? Well rattle can of course, only the best. 

My next build will probably be something more useable, like a hardtail mtn bike. I'll have to put a little more thought into weight saving though.


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## Treybiker (Jan 6, 2004)

I would never ride it (ok, yes I would), but damn fine work. :thumbsup: 

Is the "shifter" functional?


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

Solrac the red said:


> Here is my favorite creation, Vicious. A buddy did most of the welding, Tig, on this one, but I've since learned and welded two others myself. I designed and did all the fabrication. It's scratch built, including the stainless and aluminum springer fork. It's not a lightweight at 65 lbs, and it's almost 9 foot long. Yes it does take 2.5 lanes to turn around. lol The rear wheel is a Rigida 80mm wide rim with a Nexus 7 spd hub and 24x3 Electra Fatti-O tire. Paint? Well rattle can of course, only the best.
> 
> My next build will probably be something more useable, like a hardtail mtn bike. I'll have to put a little more thought into weight saving though.


Carlos, that is one cool ride............you gonna hang out at TMHTE and or PMBAR? If so, bring one of those bad ass rides along........I'm thinking of bringing a side car bike to tool around in while we consume lots-o-malt beverages and keep the fire going. :thumbsup:


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## Solrac the red (Jul 24, 2007)

Treybiker, The shifter is functional. It's not indexed so you have to find the right spot. It stays in place with friction. The cables run through the frame and so does the wire for the headlight. The battery is in that cannister looking thing under the seat.

Gabe, I'll be at the TMHTE for sure, giving a hand if needed. Tim B. and I are going to be doing the PMBAR. If I do bring one, it'll be at the TMHTE or the Gathering.


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## Monkeybike (Feb 25, 2008)

Here is mine, although I am not a "bike builder". - I have only done a couple of bikes before, I am more into designing (industrial design).-
This one is made of stainless steel tubing with aluminum linkage , it runs two chains to avoid chain growth and it uses a internally geared hub unit. I know I need to work harder on the finishings, but it is not that ugly either 



















The dual chain









and the linkage, just of the mill









I am really happy with this bike, it works really well. it took me like a year of designing and building in my spare time.


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## Monkeybike (Feb 25, 2008)

*stainless steel*

Here is mine, although I am not a "bike builder". - I have only done a couple of bikes before, I am more into designing (industrial design).-
This one is made of stainless steel tubing with aluminum linkage , it runs two chains to avoid chain growth and it uses a internally geared hub unit. I know I need to work harder on the finishings, but it is not that ugly either 



















The dual chain









and the linkage, just of the mill









I am really happy with this bike, it works really well. it took me like a year of designing and building in my spare time.


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## Monkeybike (Feb 25, 2008)

Here is mine, although I am not a "bike builder". - I have only done a couple of bikes before, I am more into designing (industrial design).-
This one is made of stainless steel tubing with aluminum linkage , it runs two chains to avoid chain growth and it uses a internally geared hub unit. I know I need to work harder on the finishings, but it is not that ugly either 



















The dual chain









and the linkage, just of the mill









I am really happy with this bike, it works really well. it took me like a year of designing and building in my spare time.


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