# Who's gone from flat bar to riser and why



## pamt (May 28, 2009)

So I thought I was a fan of the flat bar. I have been running them on both of my 29's for a couple of years. But the other day I jumped on a friends 9er with a riser bar and the steering felt more stable and controllable. Perhaps just the geometry of the bike but now my curiosity is up.

Who has gone from flat to riser and why?


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

Made that move a long time ago. Did it mostly for comfort. It is surprising sometimes how much difference just a small bit of rise can make.

I also went to wider bars. That move I made for the leverage and the control. I've put 690mm risers (very low rise) on the bike I'm building up this spring.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I have a riser on my f/s and a flat on my h/t.....purely for fit reasons.
Both are the same saddle to bar drop.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

I should add that I've also put a flat bar -- a Salsa model with a good sweep to it -- onto a bike that had me sitting too upright with risers. On that bike, I've moved to a flat bar and longer stem to try and get my body position where I want it to be. I haven't really had a chance yet to test-ride and dial in the fit yet on that one.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

pamt said:


> So I thought I was a fan of the flat bar. I have been running them on both of my 29's for a couple of years. But the other day I jumped on a friends 9er with a riser bar and the steering felt more stable and controllable. Perhaps just the geometry of the bike but now my curiosity is up.
> 
> Who has gone from flat to riser and why?


Different bars on a different bike with a different setup?

The change you felt could have been anything. Would not attribute it to the bars alone.

Bars just put your hands where you need/want them. How they are shaped to achieve that does not really matter.

Look at the bar's width and sweep (wrist angle).
Height can be changed via bar rise and/or stem rise (and spacers).


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## S_Trek (May 3, 2010)

It's an age thing


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## BikerDude001 (Jun 28, 2010)

I bought a flat bar to put on my Jet9 but took the riser off my other bike to try first. It is perfect for me. I also have done the unthinkable and added Cane Creek Ergo bar ends that integrate into the lock on grips so I have alternate hand postitions for longer rides. Mountain Bike Action would berate us all for even thinking about putting risers on 29er's and I am a bad man for putting bar ends on risers! I must not be a real mountain biker even though I've ridden all over the world for 15 years. I have found that if it works for you do it.:thumbsup:


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

I use riser bars on any bike where the fork steerer is too short to allow me to get the handlebars where they need to be.

If your hands are in the same position, regardless of if you use a riser bar or a flat bar with spacers under the stem, the bike will ride the same. A riser bar may be wider of have more sweep, which could change your wrist position, but if your hands are at the correct height it does not matter what setup (flat or riser) got them there.


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

laffeaux said:


> I use riser bars on any bike where the fork steerer is too short to allow me to get the handlebars where they need to be.


Winner. OP...if you go to wider bar then you may prefer either more rise or a shorter stem.
A good starting point is the saddle even with the handlebar with a fair reach...fair being also subjective. 29ers tend to have taller head tubes so many ride with a flat bar but real tall guys with long legs may need a bit of help getting the handlebar higher. Short guys and girls sometimes struggle with getting the bars low enough on a 29er and hence the popularity of a flat bar.


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## HVskier (Jun 20, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> I use riser bars on any bike where the fork steerer is too short to allow me to get the handlebars where they need to be.
> 
> If your hands are in the same position, regardless of if you use a riser bar or a flat bar with spacers under the stem, the bike will ride the same. A riser bar may be wider of have more sweep, which could change your wrist position, but if your hands are at the correct height it does not matter what setup (flat or riser) got them there.


exactly...spacers, stem rise, riser or flat bar all accomplish the same thing. Started with a flat bar on my new build and didn't like the look of the stack of spacers so went with a riser.


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## olijay (Feb 19, 2009)

I went from a flat 580mm bar to a 685mm wide riser on my commuter bike, feels so much better. I had the stem in the highest position so a riser bar was my only option. Wider feels better as well, I have fairly broad shoulders.


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## pamt (May 28, 2009)

Running 685mm on both bikes now so I don't think it was an issue of width but even though the stack height is similar on my bike as it is on the 9er (by appearance at least) I'm wondering if there may be the problem


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## pamt (May 28, 2009)

S_Trek said:


> It's an age thing


+1....This may be accurate to :thumbsup:


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

Ditto Shiggy.

Hands go where hands go.

Spacers, riser bars, upside down stems....

How your hands get where they are doesn't matter as long as it feels good.


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## pamt (May 28, 2009)

Coming from a heavy roadie background has me brain washed that the bars should always be at or near level with the seat so I guess I really need to rethink that whole theory.


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## CYCLEJCE (Nov 2, 2010)

As soon as I switched to my Niner from a 26" Trek 9.7 I started getting neck and shoulder pain on my right side. I just made the move to a 15mm riser 2" wider than the 22" bars that came on my Niner MCR. It took a few rides to get used to the change, however, my comfort level on the bike is way up!!

I do have a bloody pinky on my left hand and a strawberry on my fore arm form the extra width...


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## dubdryver (Mar 20, 2006)

The fit is the most important reason, but if I can get the fit to work with riser bars particularly low-rise, I will do it. Riser bars do offer a little bit more comfort due to less feedback from what the fork does not pick up. Fit is still the most important, but in most cases, if you can get a flat bar to work, you can get a riser bar to work unless you have to invert the stem and keep it at a negative.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

pamt said:


> Coming from a heavy roadie background has me brain washed that the bars should always be at or near level with the seat so I guess I really need to rethink that whole theory.


A roadie setup would have the bars well below the saddle (mine always has been). Too high is a wind catcher and limits power output.

I have the top of my off road dropbars at saddle height. A straight bar is several inches down.


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

shiggy said:


> I a roadie setup would have the bars well below the saddle (mine always has been). Too high is a wind catcher and limits power output.
> 
> I have the top of my off road dropbars at saddle height. A straight bar is several inches down.


You know your stuff shiggy so will make a comment about a 29er with a drop bar. Not sure if you order your frames custom but the problem with putting a drop bar on a 29er is the top tube on 29ers size to size compared to a road bike is 50mm longer or so. This mandates a very short stem if putting a Midge or equivalent on a 29er. The priority is very different as well in terms of riding position as you know. I come from mostly a roadie background. The drops are the main handles on a 29er and not the case with a road bike...they are used sparingly. For that reason as you mentioned, that is why the top of dropbar on a 29er needs to be higher than a road bike. If I were to build a 29er with drop bar I would seriously consider having a frame custom made with shorter top tube and taller head tube to promote a more reasonable stem length of 80-100mm on it when using a suitable dropbar which is a great handlebar shape and I understand why you like it.

Anyway my comments to a man who knows his bikes.
Cheers.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

dirtrider7 said:


> You know your stuff shiggy so will make a comment about a 29er with a drop bar. Not sure if you order your frames custom but the problem with putting a drop bar on a 29er is the top tube on 29ers size to size compared to a road bike is 50mm longer or so. This mandates a very short stem if putting a Midge or equivalent on a 29er. The priority is very different as well in terms of riding position as you know. I come from mostly a roadie background. The drops are the main handles on a 29er and not the case with a road bike...they are used sparingly. For that reason as you mentioned, that is why the top of dropbar on a 29er needs to be higher than a road bike. If I were to build a 29er with drop bar I would seriously consider having a frame custom made with shorter top tube and taller head tube to promote a more reasonable stem length of 80-100mm on it when using a suitable dropbar which is a great handlebar shape and I understand why you like it.
> 
> Anyway my comments to a man who knows his bikes.
> Cheers.


For me the TT length (more properly, the reach/stack) is the frame size. A 50mm longer TT on the mtb would make it unrideable.
I have built my own frames, had a couple made, and use off the shelf production frames, pretty much all the same reach. The customs usually have a taller stack ht. but not much more on the 29ers.

I am not a fan of the long TT/short stem mtb fit. I use the same TT/reach on a mtb regardless if if has dropbars or straight bars. Otherwise I can not get enough weight on the front end or maneuver on the bike well.

Comparing the hand position used road vs mt, the tops of my road dropbars are basically at the same level as the hooks of my mtb drops, and the grips of a straight bar. I am a bit more stretched out on the road bike. And I do use the hooks regularly on the road.


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

shiggy said:


> *I use the same TT/reach on a mtb regardless if if has dropbars or straight bars.* Otherwise I can not get enough weight on the front end or maneuver on the bike well.


That is quite surprising to me because dropbars natively have a longer reach to hoods and hooks versus a std flat bar with modest pull 'back'. By definition for equivalent fit between mtb and road bike, road bikes have ~50mm longer top tube...exactly the difference between my 29er and road bike and will add Lance Armstrong to that as well...same 50mm difference...Lance races off road with a straight riser bar....625mm top tube for mtb, 575-580mm for road bike.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Doesn't matter what you use, once you get the bars to the right height. That being said, I recently swapped around bars between my bikes and threw a riser on the Paradox and swapped the flat bar to the Monkey. The Paradox seemed to loft the front end better, but I attribute that to the fact I didn't change the spacer setup, so the bars got a bit higher, what I was surprised at was the feeling of the bars being narrower even though they are both 685mm wide. Flat bars are Easton EA50s and have 9 degree backsweep and no upsweep AFAIK, the risers are some cheap low-rise (1") Marin OEM take offs, think the backsweep is somewhere around 5 degree, not sure on up, but there's some.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Yep,

The only reason I went to riser bars is because riser bars are generally more available in wider sizes with more sweep. I since moved on to Titec H-Bars. The reason I did H-Bars (riser, non-OS) and not J-bars (flat with OS clamp) was pretty much because Nashbar often has the H-Bars on sale for $60 before a 20% off coupon, making them $60 landed at my door with tax and shipping. The J-bars were consistently $30 more, and would require me to buy a new stem as well.

That's pretty much it. I can compensate for the riser/non-riser issue with stem and spacer placement.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

dirtrider7 said:


> That is quite surprising to me because dropbars natively have a longer reach to hoods and hooks versus a std flat bar with modest pull 'back'. By definition for equivalent fit between mtb and road bike, road bikes have ~50mm longer top tube...exactly the difference between my 29er and road bike and will add Lance Armstrong to that as well...same 50mm difference...Lance races off road with a straight riser bar....625mm top tube for mtb, 575-580mm for road bike.


Why? The TT is the same (both mtbs, not road vs mtb) and the total reach of the stem plus dropbar reach (to where my thumb grips the hooks--not hoods) is the same as the reach of the stem and straight bar. Places my hands in the same place relative to the front axle. Which is really the overall point being made in this thread: it does not matter what the shape of the bar/stem combo is as long as it puts your hands where you want them.

Equivalent fit by who's definition? Definitely not mine. I have spent 20+ years learning what works for me. Moderate TT, moderate stem.

If the current long TT, short stem mtb fashion works for you, fine, it does not for me (as previously stated), and I am not LA. And basic bike fit is not the point of this thread.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

LyNx said:


> Doesn't matter what you use, once you get the bars to the right height. That being said, I recently swapped around bars between my bikes and threw a riser on the Paradox and swapped the flat bar to the Monkey. The Paradox seemed to loft the front end better, but I attribute that to the fact I didn't change the spacer setup, so the bars got a bit higher, what I was surprised at was the feeling of the bars being narrower even though they are both 685mm wide. Flat bars are Easton EA50s and have 9 degree backsweep and no upsweep AFAIK, the risers are some cheap low-rise (1") Marin OEM take offs, think the backsweep is somewhere around 5 degree, not sure on up, but there's some.


More sweep = less reach. Also turns your elbows in a bit so it may feel narrower.


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## david8613 (May 31, 2005)

I'm in the same situation, I was running a marzocchi micro ti 140mm and ran a sunline v-one riser on my wfo9, felt great to me. I also ran it with the dorado thinking it would be way too tall, it was at first because I ran the spacers below the topcrown like others have done here on the forum, but I went back in took out the spacers and lowered the crown as low as it can go with the stem just above it, and spacers above that. felt much better. now I'm thinking if I go direct mount I should be good with my sun line riser, those flat bars and especially those low rise look pimp, but not sure I really need that. the other thing is my bars are about 29" wide and sometimes I think I want wider bar, don't know yet.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yeah, but it's the risers that have less sweep, but they do have upsweep, which I think is doing as you say and turning my hands, elbows and so on up making it feel narrower to my shoulders. Think a 710 wide riders would feel the same as the 685 Easton flat.


shiggy said:


> More sweep = less reach. Also turns your elbows in a bit so it may feel narrower.


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

shiggy said:


> Why? The TT is the same (both mtbs, not road vs mtb) and the total reach of the stem plus dropbar reach (to where my thumb grips the hooks--not hoods) is the same as the reach of the stem and straight bar. Places my hands in the same place relative to the front axle. Which is really the overall point being made in this thread: it does not matter what the shape of the bar/stem combo is as long as it puts your hands where you want them.
> 
> Equivalent fit by who's definition? Definitely not mine. I have spent 20+ years learning what works for me. Moderate TT, moderate stem.
> 
> If the current long TT, short stem mtb fashion works for you, fine, it does not for me (as previously stated), and I am not LA. And basic bike fit is not the point of this thread.


OK...we established that your and my roadbike has a shorter TT than our mtbs. So agreement there. Where again, I am surprised is...you say that the relative reach to a drop bar on the same bike compared to a flat bar is the same. To me it can't be and why virtually all the drop bar mtbs you see just like in the other thread have very short stems with rise when employing a drop bar. A drop bar is natively lower in the hooks where your spend your time and curves forward and then back versus sweep just back like a flat bar.
So sizing mtb the same for both doesn't make sense to me. That's all. As to your comment about the short stem craze, I completely agree. I grew up riding mtbs with 130mm stems when the 'fashion' was small bikes and long stems. I still ride with a long stem to ride the smallest frame possible. 
Anyway, I was just curious what your thinking was about sizing a mtb frame with a dropbar as I haven't built one and you have built many.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

dirtrider7 said:


> OK...we established that your and my roadbike has a shorter TT than our mtbs. So agreement there. Where again, I am surprised is...you say that the relative reach to a drop bar on the same bike compared to a flat bar is the same. To me it can't be and why virtually all the drop bar mtbs you see just like in the other thread have very short stems with rise when employing a drop bar. A drop bar is natively lower in the hooks where your spend your time and curves forward and then back versus sweep just back like a flat bar.
> So sizing mtb the same for both doesn't make sense to me. That's all. As to your comment about the short stem craze, I completely agree. I grew up riding mtbs with 130mm stems when the 'fashion' was small bikes and long stems. I still ride with a long stem to ride the smallest frame possible.
> Anyway, I was just curious what your thinking was about sizing a mtb frame with a dropbar as I haven't built one and you have built many.


You just explained why a dropbar uses a tall, short reach stem.

Because of the drop and forward reach of the bar it must use a tall, short reach stem to match the total reach of a flat/straight bar.

Quick, not totally to scale drawing.
Same TT length, same HT height, same final hand position (the forward orange circle) because the combined bar/stem reach is the same.


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

shiggy said:


> You just explained why a dropbar uses a tall, short reach stem.
> 
> Because of the drop and forward reach of the bar it must use a tall, short reach stem to match the total reach of a flat/straight bar.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the drawing shiggy. I believe we are on the same page now in terms of difference between drop bar position and flatbar. What I will do in the next day or so is modify your drawing and counterpropose a frame geometry that will allow a conventional stem to place the drop bar in the same postion as your short tall riser. That was my point earlier. This will give a mtb frame a more aesthetic look albeit likely compromise standover fractionally.
I would then appreciate your critique of my proposed alternative frame geometry.
Cheers.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

dirtrider7 said:


> Thanks for the drawing shiggy. I believe we are on the same page now in terms of difference between drop bar position and flatbar. What I will do in the next day or so is modify your drawing and counterpropose a frame geometry that will allow a conventional stem to place the drop bar in the same postion as your short tall riser. That was my point earlier. This will give a mtb frame a more aesthetic look albeit likely compromise standover fractionally.
> I would then appreciate your critique of my proposed alternative frame geometry.
> Cheers.


Do not bother with the drawing. Not the point of this thread, and I have done it and know what it looks like. Mostly just extend the head tube. The basic fit geometry does not change.
























And a production frame with a production stem.









I find the objection to tall stems funny as it was the norm, even with flat bars, in the '80s.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

S0 where 20" flat wide bars a thing of the 80s and most agree that those stupid narrow bars were not good. Talking 80s, we certainly don't want any of the fashions from them resurecting themselves, even though back then we thought them cool ut:


shiggy said:


> I find the objection to tall stems funny as it was the norm, even with flat bars, in the '80s.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

LyNx said:


> S0 where 20" flat wide bars a thing of the 80s and most agree that those stupid narrow bars were not good. Talking 80s, we certainly don't want any of the fashions from them resurecting themselves, even though back then we thought them cool ut:


I was referring to a setup that is functional even if you object to the look.
Stem height to position your hands where you want. Pick the bar width required, too.

And do not limit yourself. Form follows function.


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

shiggy said:


> Do not bother with the drawing. Not the point of this thread, and I have done it and know what it looks like. Mostly just extend the head tube. The basic fit geometry does not change.
> View attachment 611873
> 
> 
> ...


I see your point shiggy. Also, the actual rise of your mtb dropbars is not that extreme.
You are quite right about ever evolving 'convention' dictating some sort of acceptable 'fashion' versus function. Nothing wrong with riser stems...in fact they can be construed as more efficient versus a taller head tube and longer top tube to place the bars in the same place as a flatter stem.
Only downside of a riser stem is there is no way to go higher if maxed out versus a 5-10 deg rise aka more neutral stem, one has the option of going higher to further tune riding position.
Thanks for your comments and excellent pictures.


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## erik h (Jan 6, 2008)

I switched to low riser on the rigid 29er. Not for height, I'd lower the front if I could. But I am not comfortable if the hands are not above the stem. I want the grips to be the highest point of the bike.

On the supended 29er I still have a wide flat bar, it would get too high with a riser.


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## david8613 (May 31, 2005)

i have to agree with lynx risers with sweep do seem shorter...


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## steelgtr (May 3, 2009)

So, what is the main purpose of a flat bar? I have a new Stumpy 29er HT and mostly do paved paths. fire trails, etc. Why is a riser more "comfortable"?

bob


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

steelgtr said:


> So, what is the main purpose of a flat bar? I have a new Stumpy 29er HT and mostly do paved paths. fire trails, etc. Why is a riser more "comfortable"?
> 
> bob


Go back and read this whole thread.


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## first man (May 29, 2011)

Nice bikes dirtrider7


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## andrwplsn (Aug 1, 2011)

i just put these on my ss they are amazing if you want something super wide with a bit of rise: Answer ProTaper 780 DH Bar at Price Point


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## FujNoob (Dec 20, 2009)

I went with riser bars & stem for comfort.


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## rapurk (Mar 1, 2012)

pamt said:


> So I thought I was a fan of the flat bar. I have been running them on both of my 29's for a couple of years. But the other day I jumped on a friends 9er with a riser bar and the steering felt more stable and controllable. Perhaps just the geometry of the bike but now my curiosity is up.
> 
> Who has gone from flat to riser and why?


I get more handling comfort


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