# 2019 World Cup XC



## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

I thought I'd start a new thread to kick off the new season. Given that most of the racers have just begun training for the 2019 season, one could say it's officially underway.

I have many questions. There are so many interesting narratives.

So, is 2019 the year we see Nino regularly beaten, is Gerhard Kerschbaumer the man to do it?
Does Emily finally take a win, or is her new teammate going to steal the show again?
What about Yana Belomoyna, can she overcome her injuries and compete for the overall again?
Will the UCI do anything to improve the short track?
Will Red Bull finally get their act together and gives us live on bike footage during the race? It's about to be 2019, the camera tech is definitely available and no longer expensive. Imagine how much a front and back facing camera would enhance the show...

Discuss.

World Cup schedule

_27. - 28. April: Maribor (Slovenia) DHI_
_17. - 19. Mai: Albstadt (Germany) XCO/XCC_
_24. - 26. Mai: Nove Mesto (Czech Republic) XCO/XCC_
_01. - 02. June: Fort William (Scotland) DHI_
_08. - 09. June: Leogang (Austria) DHI_
_05. - 07. Juli: Vallnord (Andorra) XCO/XCC/DHI_
_12. - 14. Juli: Les Gets (France) XCO/DHI_
_02. - 04. Aug: Val di Sole (Italia) XCO/XCC/DHI_
_09. - 11. Aug: Lenzerheide (Switzerland) XCO/XCC/DHI_
_06. - 08. Sept: Snowshoe (USA) XCO/XCC/DHI_


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Can't wait!

On short track, I think the start order for the XC race is good, I think the points should be much less towards the overall XC, but maybe there should also be a short track championship title as well. (2cents)


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

I'd love if the short track would be 2-times shorter than it is now! That equals more exciting racing and less fatigue for racers.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

I want shortracks to be different from the race track, of all the shortracks this year, I believe 2 were acceptable, all the remaining ones looked pretty boring and were just a succession of riders.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

TDLover said:


> I want shortracks to be different from the race track, of all the shortracks this year, I believe 2 were acceptable, all the remaining ones looked pretty boring and were just a succession of riders.


Agreed. I feared Short track would basically be short cross race & some basically were. Add actual singletrack and and some more tech please so it's actually MTBing. I wouldn't mind if they were also even a bit shorter, like 15 minutes so it was a little more full out the entire time.

Would also love to see onboard cameras. Live stats like current speed etc would be cool too. Overall I am pretty happy with how Redbull is broadcasting the XCO events. Bart is getting better. Would be nice to have a retired female racer as a regular commentator as well.

I do think Nino is gonna win even less. But, no other male is more consistent and it seems dedicated to just XCO. He'll still win a couple.

Wonder if Neff is going to be allowed to run other brands of tires like Batty does on the Trek team? She won a couple races due to running proper mud tires if I remember correctly. Women's racing is amazing, should be another great year with so many potential top racers.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

How about instead of short track, time trial, 1 lap of the XC course, like a qualifying lap.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

mik_git said:


> How about instead of short track, time trial, 1 lap of the XC course, like a qualifying lap.


Not a bad idea, though the "intention" of XCC is to be spectator friendly. I think the idea is for XCC to be a bit of a frenzy. The execution of that is debatable. Personally, I think it's interesting to watch, if not just for watching Langvad and MvdP murder the competition on the attack lap.

I think 1 lap solo TT would be awesome for riders with fewer UCI points (From the USA, both Swenson and Grotts would benefit tremendously). I'm just not convinced how spectator friendly it would be.

So basically:
XCC - Awesome for some viewers, and awesome for some racers
1 Lap TT - Awesome for probably fewer viewers, and awesome for probably more racers


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## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

Some great points on the XCC. Seems the solution is fairly simple. It's just 3 changes. 

1. Less points, as it really shouldn't heavily influence the overall.
2. Absolutely, never run an XCC if the venue doesn't have a suitable loop including considerable technical sections, otherwise it's just a bad crit race on MTBs.
3. Shorten the race a little to reduce the fatigue.

With those 3 changes I'm sure we'd all enjoy them more, as would the competitors.

Someone tell UCI, we the audience have spoken...


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Ketzal said:


> 2. Absolutely, never run an XCC if the venue doesn't have a suitable loop including considerable technical sections, otherwise it's just a bad crit race on MTBs.


Just thinking hypothetically and playing devils advocate for the sake of discussion...

What if the XCC model was refined to more reflect what Epic Rides is doing for their series with the Crit on Friday's? Seems the pros love it, the crowd loves it, and in RedBulls case easy to film.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

The main issue for the sport in the US is getting exposure. RedBull TV is a tiny niche at present - its app is not available on many set top boxes. We need to get on a big cable channel (or RedBull needs to become a big channel) so that people can see how awesome this sport has become, which will attract advertisers and transform the sport. 

No knock on RedBull, they have improved significantly with the commentary and introductions to the races. But I can’t get RedBull on my TV and I hate watching sports on the computer (like many people). 

I think the short track is a good addition to World Cups, regardless of technical sections. The races are short already - only about 25-30 minutes. Yes, it is like a dirt crit and is exciting for the same reasons. It takes a very strong rider with an explosive sprint or great breakaway ability to win. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I use my ChromeCast to get it on the TV


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

mik_git said:


> How about instead of short track, time trial, 1 lap of the XC course, like a qualifying lap.


I would love to see a TT lap!


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## malayneum (Mar 7, 2018)

can someone share the schedule for 2019 season ?


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

mik_git said:


> How about instead of short track, time trial, 1 lap of the XC course, like a qualifying lap.


Now that's a great idea.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Nino wins less, but still wins overall. Women's continues to be the most interesting, in large part because no single rider dominates every race.

Face it, Nino's accomplishments are astounding, but make for a bit of a boring show. I know there's lots of racing right behind him, but I want to see action at the front.

Agree it would be awesome to get coverage on a "major" cable channel.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

zgxtreme said:


> What if the XCC model was refined to more reflect what Epic Rides is doing for their series with the Crit on Friday's? Seems the pros love it, the crowd loves it, and in RedBulls case easy to film.


What was wrong with the XCC this season? I enjoyed it and it was fan friendly. Also by making the points heavy it ensures the top pros race it. If they all race it, then that throws the fatigue question out the window because all of them will be doing it. If someone chooses to sit it out then they have to start 3rd row and lose a bunch of points in the overall. If they win the XCO after sitting out the XCC, then kudos to them and maybe we'll have some different winners in the World Cup.

The downside of doing the fat tire crit is that it would be more dangerous with higher speeds and closer racing on pavement. But I do enjoy the Epic Rides fat tire crits.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

malayneum said:


> can someone share the schedule for 2019 season ?


From the 2018 thread:



bananajoe said:


> Apparently the world cup schedule is as follow (ride.ch)
> 
> Mountainbike Worldcup 2019
> 
> ...


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## grawp (Apr 22, 2012)

Please don’t wish for big network coverage. That’s what happened to cx and now they try charge you for everything.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

^this, got to admit, i'm pretty happy with how it is...maybe 1 or 2 more rounds might be nice, but other than that its all pretty good.

Oh and they could redesign the redbull tv app to be actually usable...but tiny complaints for a good thing thats free...


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

It looks like they scheduled the beginning of the XCO races to begin after the Spring Road Classics such as Flanders and Paris Roubaix so that MvdP wouldn't miss any races. Lol!


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/uec-cyclo-cross-european-championships-2018/elite-men/results/

"I think for now the Olympics is the future. In 2020, I will be focused on the mountain bike and then maybe I will ride some more road after that"

So, it seems the goals are set, should be an interesting season if we see full dedication.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Just thinking, maybe we should get this made a sticky, till...er 2020


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## hammonjj (Jun 29, 2016)

J-Flo said:


> We need to get on a big cable channel (or RedBull needs to become a big channel)


I don't know about your provider, buy on Comcast there is an Olympics channel that shows nothing but Olympic sports (plus old Olympics replays). I suspect it's more an issue that Red Bull owns the viewing rights in the US, so we are at the mercy, although I do like their coverage for the most part.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

The Olympics channel doesn’t show much of the Olympic cycling. They haven’t shown any reruns of the MTB races, to my knowledge. NBCSN shows some important road races (including TdF, some of the classics and, this year, the Vuelta but not the Giro). 

NBCSN also shows an abbreviated (30-minute) version of UCI MTB World Cups and Worlds - but only after a two-week delay and 15 minutes each for boys and girls. Weak and nowhere near enough to make for good TV. 

I just finished watching Rampage and, no matter how you feel about that event, the Red Bull coverage has really grown quite good. It was gripping for an MTB fan who knows how sick that riding is. Boil the four hour full broadcast down to 60-90 minutes and it would be dynamite mainstream sports TV. The MTB World Cups are already at that level at 120 minutes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

I think Redbull's coverage is very good, especially for free. I absolutely hate trying to navigate through the app though.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Julie Bresset and Lukas Fluckiger going to BMC for the 2019 season per Instagram post...


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

Sam Gaze re-ups with Specialized for the next 2 years

__
http://instagr.am/p/Bp2k0iuBcZw/

still no news about Kate Courtney (lately fewer pics with "specialized" on her jersey on instagram)


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

pastronef said:


> Sam Gaze re-ups with Specialized for the next 2 years
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bp2k0iuBcZw/
> ...


Kate is going to Scott with Nino.


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

joeduda said:


> Kate is going to Scott with Nino.


yep, I hear the rumors. strange they waiting for the announcement


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

pastronef said:


> yep, I hear the rumors. strange they waiting for the announcement


Her contract could go to the year end maybe?


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

csteven71 said:


> Her contract could go to the year end maybe?


yes, that could be, unlike Jolanda Neff who already rides a Trek (but still wears Northwave shoes and Adidas glasses, maybe she has a personal contract with them, or until Dec 31st too)


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

pastronef said:


> Sam Gaze re-ups with Specialized for the next 2 years
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bp2k0iuBcZw/
> ...


I just saw one yesterday or the day before on FB with her in Specialized on her rainbow Jersey. I don't think she will move. She had just one year in Elite so far and while expected to do well was not on the radar for the World Championship win. My guess is that she planned at least 2 years in Elite with Specialized with year 1 being a "learning year" and year 2 being the big push. Her worlds win is really good luck not part of the plan. Ideally win that at the end of you contract so you can ask for more. If I was Specialzied I would have given her 2 years (at least) to perform in Elite also and not want the pressure of needing big results in her first year in Elite. I would think she would ride better knowing she need not be perfect her first year out. Annika is the team leader anyway.

I could be wrong, but makes no sense otherwise.


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

I was thinking the same, but Spesh also cut Lea Davidson after she had 2 great years...so maybe they don't value their American females anymore. Not that I'd like to see it happen, but cut Howie and move money for the newly established champ Kate...

She has been riding in her Specialized stuff frequently though, but that might be the only kit she has since she's been under them for years now...


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Afrobiker said:


> I was thinking the same, but Spesh also cut Lea Davidson after she had 2 great years...so maybe they don't value their American females anymore. Not that I'd like to see it happen, but cut Howie and move money for the newly established champ Kate...
> 
> She has been riding in her Specialized stuff frequently though, but that might be the only kit she has since she's been under them for years now...


Lea was cut I believe to make space for Kate. It does seem like good move. Kate is young and did well in Elite for her first year. You can only expect her to improve. Lea (nothing personal) is on the back end of her career and would not have given Specialized the publicity that Kate has. Kate wining the rainbow strips in year 1 is just a bonus. Remember a factory team like Specialized wants to win for sure, but they want publicity and Kate is bring that now. American company with American in Rainbow stripes. Yeah they want that. Plus she is nice looking and that nothing but more bonus. I am sure they want to keep her. Scott may want her too for the same reasons, but if I were Kate I would stay Specialized. Lots of money with that team/factory overall and she could have a long career there. She might make more on another team in 2019, but long term specialized can be good. Trek has good thing with Emily Batty for the same reasons. I would have pegged Neff going to Scott, but I guess Trek made a better offer.

All that said they way thing look from the outside are not like they are on the inside so it is all just a guess.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Speaking of Specialized, I’d love to have a look at Kulhavey’s contract. Seems like he must have signed a ten year deal... He’s had moments of brilliance over the years, and outright dominance early on, but he’s just so oddly inconsistent. I wonder if a change in team could reinvigorate him.


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

Afrobiker said:


> I was thinking the same, but Spesh also cut Lea Davidson after she had 2 great years...so maybe they don't value their American females anymore. Not that I'd like to see it happen, but cut *Howie* and move money for the newly established champ Kate...
> 
> She has been riding in her Specialized stuff frequently though, but that might be the only kit she has since she's been under them for years now...


talking about Grotts. last twitter and instagram post is from October 6th...


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

pastronef said:


> talking about Grotts. last twitter and instagram post is from October 6th...


Seems that he took a whole month off. No activities on Strava as well until yesterday.


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

I'm happy to be called a social justice warrior.

In the end it's just about right and wrong. Don't let yourself be on the incorrect side.

Misogyny is so ingrained in our world that people do it without considering it as an overt action and sometimes without even really meaning (or processing the impact of) the words they are saying.

_That doesn't mean their words and actions don't have a real effect on the people, individuals, and groups they are marginalizing (inadvertently or otherwise)._

That's the end of my comments on this. Hopefully we can move this thread forward in a constructive manner and focus on the upcoming WC season.


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

Christopher Blevins is joining Specialized factory this year. Just saw that on Facebook.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

People are always judged on their appearance. It is a fact of life like it or not. Athletes unlike models are not to be selected based on appearance. They should be selected based on performance, but being attractive helps. Men do it and women do it. It happens in Tour de France riders. Kittel, Cancelara, etc yeah looks are always a factor when it comes to endorsements and sponsor value. It has no impact on performance, but when trying to sell a product looks have an impact. Not recognizing it is just putting your head in the sand to reality.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Even though I was gonna post about how much I disagree of JoePAz analysis on Kate's athlete career I read nothing "wrong" in it. 

I suggest the one who brought up misogyny to learn its proper definition, because I have received numerous negative rep calling me a misogynist as well, for things that aren't, and what JoePAz wrote has nothing of misogyny in it. 

I would say looks do matter, this is life, it isn't fair for everybody. An athlete that has good looks will have an additional advantage over one that is ugly, be that a man or girl. 

I, myself, am pretty ugly, but it's easy to reckon that I were more handsome life would be easier, better job, easier to mate, better social treatment and so on. Being a girl even gives you more privileges in life, whether you are open to admit it or not. 

It's funny, but if we were discussing some male the same way Kate was being discussed and brought his looks, nobody would be defending him calling them misandrists to those talking about his looks. 

I'm sorry to tell you, but you are the problem briscoelab, you clearly can't discuss truths of life without calling others something you don't even understand.


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

With more and more movement and re-signing of contracts these past couple days, I'm sure we'll get our answer where most the top mtb riders will be soon enough.

I did find it interesting Chris Blevins left Axeon to persue full MTB with Spesh. I feel as those that doesn't point to good signs for Howie, but we also questioned Spesh-Howie last year and he was still with them again....


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

chilla13 said:


> Seems that he took a whole month off. No activities on Strava as well until yesterday.


Part of his plan to recharge, and come back even fiercer, I hope!


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

There for a moment I had to double check I was in the XC forum of MTBR and not RoadBikeReview...


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

Avancini-Marotte-Fumic re-up with Cannondale until 2020. I like that


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

Mani Fumic doing the Spitz-thing and getting on yet another olympic train. Much appreciated. Btw: the outer appearance of Fumic and Fontana was what got me into XC racing. „Yes, XC riders can be the cool cats in town“ and everyone at Cannondales marketing unit was satisfied...


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Back in the "generic" kit... 


__
http://instagr.am/p/BqSdb5jB3dJ/


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

zgxtreme said:


> Back in the "generic" kit...
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BqSdb5jB3dJ/


girl's gotta do laundry!! Maybe reading into what she's wearing a littttttttllllleeeee too much lol

But on another thought: maybe this "training trip" is a way for her to clear the mind and make a decision on what's next. Why do I feel like once she goes home we'll know what's going on with her next....?


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Afrobiker said:


> girl's gotta do laundry!! Maybe reading into what she's wearing a littttttttllllleeeee too much lol
> 
> But on another thought: maybe this "training trip" is a way for her to clear the mind and make a decision on what's next. Why do I feel like once she goes home we'll know what's going on with her next....?


Ha, I agree, just playing the game for the sake of 2019 speculation!!!


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Afrobiker said:


> girl's gotta do laundry!! Maybe reading into what she's wearing a littttttttllllleeeee too much lol
> 
> But on another thought: maybe this "training trip" is a way for her to clear the mind and make a decision on what's next. Why do I feel like once she goes home we'll know what's going on with her next....?


The insider guy has never disappointed us before, so I'll believe its true she is going to Scott.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Generally, if a rider is staying with a team it is announced pretty early (October). If a rider is switching teams then there is no announcements until their contract with the old team is up, which in most cases is in January.


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

LMN said:


> Generally, if a rider is staying with a team it is announced pretty early (October). If a rider is switching teams then there is no announcements until their contract with the old team is up, *which in most cases is in January*.


unless you're Jolanda Neff and you announce it in October


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

pastronef said:


> unless you're Jolanda Neff and you announce it in October


Which is why I did say in most cases

I suspect, the October announcement was due to an early ending of the contract with Kross. Grapevine is that team had some financial challenges mid-season and were probably more than happy to let someone else pay her salary for the rest of the year.


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

TDLover said:


> *I have received numerous negative rep calling me a misogynist* as well, for things that aren't, and what JoePAz wrote has nothing of misogyny in it.
> 
> *Being a girl even gives you more privileges in life, whether you are open to admit it or not. *
> 
> ...


You claim to have wrongly accused of being labeled a misogynist and then promptly say:

"*Being a girl even gives you more privileges in life, whether you are open to admit it or not.*"

Wow, just wow. Let me shed some tears for the plight of the "poor man" in our society... :yikes: Few would not interpret this as a blatantly sexist and patriarchal statement. I would go further to hedge that it is in fact based on misogynistic aspects of your personality, but others might not agree.

Splitting hairs on the definition of misogyny to only reflect the pure _hatred_ of women is weak sauce. Misogyny is manifest in many ways, including social exclusion, sex discrimination, hostility, androcentrism, patriarchy, male privilege, belittling of women, violence against women, and objectification.

No one would every bring up a male Pro XC racer's looks when it factors into contract negotiations. _That's the whole point._

Kate is an amazing athlete and just won the World Champs as a first year elite. That is and should be good enough for us all the be excited about her future team prospects and career. To bring up her "looks" only belittles her efforts and accomplishments, whether you interpret it to or not.

Do beautiful people have advantages in certain social and professional interactions and situations? Certainly this is the case in life. But, that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to change that when it comes do professional trajectory (for both men and women). Your "truths of life" exist only because we allow them to do so.

I'm an advocate, an ally, and intolerant of bull$hit. More importantly, *I'm happy to be part of the "problem" as you see it. *

Now... let's get back to the thread folks!


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

zgxtreme said:


> Back in the "generic" kit...
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BqSdb5jB3dJ/


Still has Specialized shoes on though...

I'm hoping to see her stay on for another year. She seems like a great fit, but Specialized does ask a lot of their riders.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Yes, you won the World Champs, but we ask a lot from our riders...
Meanwhile, Jaro gets it written into his contract that he's not allowed anywhere within 50km of ice in the off season...


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

NordieBoy said:


> Yes, you won the World Champs, but we ask a lot from our riders...
> Meanwhile, Jaro gets it written into his contract that he's not allowed anywhere within 50km of ice in the off season...


No joke! You'd think that was enough. But they are pretty media and event intensive with their team. Winning races sadly doesn't translate directly into increased sales (what Specialized ultimately wants). The rider presence on social media, event's, videos, etc is what builds the brand.

Now, truth be told, I LOVE the coverage and web episodes they do at the races like Cape Epic and when they used to cover every WC XCO round. So, in a way I _am_ part of the problem


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

Even Specializeds budget for sponsorship is limited. Annika is a the top performer for the company in XC racing. Another world champ means another world champion salary.
As for Jaro: he is a guy average riders look up to. Even if he is not winning, not even a top ten contender he has this aura of being just a brutal cycling machine being able to push 400w at will around him. And: who else is available? Gaze and Hatherly are already on Specializeds payroll. Kerschbaumer? Flückiger? Limited marketing potential, I guess.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

zgxtreme said:


> Back in the "generic" kit...
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BqSdb5jB3dJ/


I never noticed but she is pretty good looking!


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

chilla13 said:


> Even Specializeds budget for sponsorship is limited. Annika is a the top performer for the company in XC racing. Another world champ means another world champion salary.
> As for Jaro: he is a guy average riders look up to. Even if he is not winning, not even a top ten contender he has this aura of being just a brutal cycling machine being able to push 400w at will around him. And: who else is available? Gaze and Hatherly are already on Specializeds payroll. Kerschbaumer? Flückiger? Limited marketing potential, I guess.


Fair enough on the Dollars. Yes they are always limited. I would like to think Specialized wants to keep Kate. Lots of good potential there for a lot of reasons. Will she ask for more money? If her contract is up I certainly would, but I don't know that. The other thing to remember also is the overall marketing plan. What does Specialized want to do with her? I just saw an ad on Specialized's new Womens Seat. They had Allison Tetrick in the photo and video marketing materials. Supposedly she was part of drive to get seat made. True or not this Specialized using her as part of their marketing plan. So how would Kate Courtney fit in that marketing plan? And how much is worth to them?

All that said maybe Scott is going beyond that and replace Jenny Rissveds with Courtney. Seems like Rissveds departure hurt Scott for 2018 and probably left them unable to snag a big name replacement. Neff was the obvious choice, but she went Trek. So maybe? Buy as was the case with Jenny you never really know what it is going on behind the scenes.

BTW... I know it was revealed she stepped away from racing for personal heath issues, but is is there any word of her returning?


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

JoePAz said:


> BTW... I know it was revealed she stepped away from racing for personal heath issues, but is is there any word of her returning?


There were some rumors she was trying to come back. But I've been hearing that it won't be this next season, sadly for us and the sport.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> Yes, you won the World Champs, but we ask a lot from our riders...
> Meanwhile, Jaro gets it written into his contract that he's not allowed anywhere within 50km of ice in the off season...


I suspect that Specialized is extremely interested in resigning her.

However, World champions generally get to go to the team of their choice.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

briscoelab said:


> There were some rumors she was trying to come back. But I've been hearing that it won't be this next season, sadly for us and the sport.


I would love to see her comeback, but pro cycling can be cruel sport and it if it better for her to ride casually than to feel forced to compete at the highest levels then so be it.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Rissveds are looking for a comeback next year, the goal is Olympics. 

She are healthy at the moment and going for next season. 

I’m rather sure it will not be Scott as that mix is not good. She are looking to form her own team for next year.

A lot in media the last 4M since her win at the Nationals, the only race she did this year.


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

NordieBoy said:


> Yes, you won the World Champs, but we ask a lot from our riders...
> Meanwhile, Jaro gets it written into his contract that *he's not allowed anywhere within 50km of ice *in the off season...


eeeh?


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## Udyr (Jul 29, 2013)

Batty will get a win in 2019, potentially multiple. My call is at Albstadt or Vallnord. She will be altitude adapted from her new home base, won't be traveling back across the pond as much, and is extremely lean these days.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Udyr said:


> Batty will get a win in 2019, potentially multiple. My call is at Albstadt or Vallnord. She will be altitude adapted from her new home base, won't be traveling back across the pond as much, and is extremely lean these days.


I agree, just in the past two years I've noticed a maturity in that I think she's getting her training and preparation dialed in to truly achieve her potential.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

briscoelab said:


> You claim to have wrongly accused of being labeled a misogynist and then promptly say:
> 
> "*Being a girl even gives you more privileges in life, whether you are open to admit it or not.*"
> 
> ...


Cool, came to the forum to read about mountain bike racing and instead find a lecture from somebody suffering from self proclaimed PTSD over some comments. Get a grip...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

pastronef said:


> eeeh?


Broke his knee cap a year or two back. Walking to his car or something, IIRC.

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## mrbadwrench (Sep 13, 2016)

briscoelab said:


> You claim to have wrongly accused of being labeled a misogynist and then promptly say:
> 
> "*Being a girl even gives you more privileges in life, whether you are open to admit it or not.*"
> 
> ...


You realize this is a bicycle forum, right? Get out of here with that negativity and political bs


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

mrbadwrench said:


> You realize this is a bicycle forum, right? Get out of here with that negativity and political bs


Negativity? Political BS? He's addressing a societal problem. If you think that talking about the bad things in the world is "negative", that's on you.

Personally, I'd rather recognize the problems and fix them, as opposed to pretending they don't exist.

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## mrbadwrench (Sep 13, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> Negativity? Political BS? He's addressing a societal problem.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For the sake of a bike thread being about bikes. Is that carbon fiber or aluminum?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

mrbadwrench said:


> For the sake of a bike thread being about bikes. Is that carbon fiber or aluminum?


Well, the thread is actually about the 2019 WC XCO season. XCO, like other bicycle races, is raced by people. Men AND women.

So, when discussing bicycle racing and those that do it, and the things that those people are concerned with (contracts, teams, salaries, incentives, stipulations and the things that influence those items), it stands to reason that we could discuss disparities in salaries and what causes that.

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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Broke his knee cap a year or two back. Walking to his car or something, IIRC.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shoot, I was hoping for a pickup hockey game story.....


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

kosmo said:


> Shoot, I was hoping for a pickup hockey game story.....


This would have been a vastly better story. Or perhaps a biathlon accident, given his home town.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Broke his knee cap a year or two back. Walking to his Maserati* or something, IIRC.


Fixed that for you

*essential sponsorship promotional opportunity


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## craign (Feb 8, 2006)

zgxtreme said:


> I agree, just in the past two years I've noticed a maturity in that I think she's getting her training and preparation dialed in to truly achieve her potential.


Sadly I think she displayed serious lack of maturity (of a different type) hanging out with Lance Armstrong in the off season and posting about it on social media. Seems like she deleted the post now. Whether you respect his achievements, I don't think hanging out and training with him is appropriate.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

craign said:


> Sadly I think she displayed serious lack of maturity (of a different type) hanging out with Lance Armstrong in the off season and posting about it on social media. Seems like she deleted the post now. Whether you respect his achievements, I don't think hanging out and training with him is appropriate.


Can you elaborate on that? I can't think of a reason why riding with him in Moab would have anything to do with her maturity level. It'd be different if she said "To all you haters... roflcopter" or something, but she didn't.


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## craign (Feb 8, 2006)

bikeranzin said:


> Can you elaborate on that? I can't think of a reason why riding with him in Moab would have anything to do with her maturity level. It'd be different if she said "To all you haters... roflcopter" or something, but she didn't.


Hanging out and training with a known doper? And then glorifying that (and him) on social media? Cycling needs to put the past behind it and move on. Not glorify those who were cheating.

I always disappointed when I see someone from the new era of (hopefully clean) professional cyclists giving him the time of day. Particularly disappointing because it was an XC MTB athlete and one whom I was becoming more impressed with their recent racing performances.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

craign said:


> Cycling needs to put the past behind it and move on.


I agree. Which is why I'm confused why you're digging up the past. It wasn't really Lance being involved in doping that was the problem, it was how he treated the people in close proximity to him during it. So that more goes to how he's acted since, and he at least claims to be working towards mending those fences.

How exactly did she glorify doping? Or him? And let's be clear, Lance was damn fast before doping too. So, if you're someone who can gain from the experience of others (which is literally everyone), do you really not think Lance could have something to offer that isn't EPO?


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## craign (Feb 8, 2006)

bikeranzin said:


> I agree. Which is why I'm confused why you're digging up the past. It wasn't really Lance being involved in doping that was the problem, it was how he treated the people in close proximity to him during it. So that more goes to how he's acted since, and he at least claims to be working towards mending those fences.
> 
> How exactly did she glorify doping? Or him? And let's be clear, Lance was damn fast before doping too. So, if you're someone who can gain from the experience of others (which is literally everyone), do you really not think Lance could have something to offer that isn't EPO?


IMO, she dug up the past by associating with him .

I don't doubt that he has experience to offer. I just don't think it's appropriate that any current professional cyclist entertain his assistance (remember he is sanctioned). Particularly given as you point out, the way he treated his team mates and other colleagues during the period in question.

I didn't intend to get into an argument about this. Always hard to express your opinion clearly on a forum, would be easier over a beer.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Given how toxic the Lance's aura is, I also wonder why an elite athlete would associate with him, from any point of view seems to be poor judgement.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

bikeranzin said:


> ...And let's be clear, Lance was damn fast before doping too. ...


His high school was full of dopers and he supposedly doped for triathlon prior to road biking, potentially leading to his cancers


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Lance made his choices. But like you said, cycling does need to move on. 

I’ve sent people to prison for far worse whom have been more “accepted” upon their release having served their time and were allowed to continue on with their life in a manner that it didn’t turn into a “life sentence”. 

Anyway... how bout that 2019 WC season eh?


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## insidertrading (Mar 12, 2018)

zgxtreme said:


> Lance made his choices. But like you said, cycling does need to move on.
> 
> I've sent people to prison for far worse whom have been more "accepted" upon their release having served their time and were allowed to continue on with their life in a manner that it didn't turn into a "life sentence".
> 
> Anyway... how bout that 2019 WC season eh?


lots of riders will be getting busy to hunt down the Olympic Qualy points in the 2019 season... so the non WC UCI races should have pretty full fields as well. I'm looking forward to the Cape Epic and seeing how Sam Gaze goes in his first hit out


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Afrobiker said:


> With more and more movement and re-signing of contracts these past couple days, I'm sure we'll get our answer where most the top mtb riders will be soon enough.
> 
> I did find it interesting Chris Blevins left Axeon to persue full MTB with Spesh. I feel as those that doesn't point to good signs for Howie, but we also questioned Spesh-Howie last year and he was still with them again....


Chris Blevins is a huge talent in XC MTB for the USA. Now that he's focused solely on MTBing until the 2020 Olympics, I hope we see him realize his full potential.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

insidertrading said:


> lots of riders will be getting busy to hunt down the Olympic Qualy points in the 2019 season... so the non WC UCI races should have pretty full fields as well. I'm looking forward to the Cape Epic and seeing how Sam Gaze goes in his first hit out


Who is Sam's teammate for Cape Epic? I hope for his sake that Specialized has some better tires in production or he better be good at fixing flats like Kulhavy.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

TDLover said:


> Given how toxic the Lance's aura is, I also wonder why an elite athlete would associate with him, from any point of view seems to be poor judgement.


Could it be that she just does not understand how bad his rep is? If I was a sponsor, I would have been calling her about it with questions.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Stonerider said:


> Chris Blevins is a huge talent in XC MTB for the USA. Now that he's focused solely on MTBing until the 2020 Olympics, I hope we see him realize his full potential.


Agreed. Super excited to see Blevins focused on WC. seen him race locally here at Fontana and Bonelli and he is a very talented young rider that also seems to have a really good attitude which is always good for the sport and the team.


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

Australian duo Brendan Johnston and Cam Ivory teaming up for the Cape Epic next year as well. Will be interesting to see what they can do but I reckon a Top 10 finish is well within their capabilities. They are our two best XCO and XCM riders at the moment and both are very evenly matched. 

Such a shame neither of them can get a ride in Europe on the World Cup circuit. I have no doubt they'd be Top 20 riders given the opportunity to race and train as full time professionals. Event though they are 1 and 2 in the country neither of them werre at the World Champs. Brendan Johnston is also by far our best XCM rider, probably Top 10 in the world but wasn't at the World XCM championships as MTBA just don't have the funding to support their athletes. 

Anyway hopefully they do well and get some exposure to the bigger factory teams at the Cape Epic. They're both only 26 so there's still plenty of time to get picked up and have a shot at racing outside of Australia.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

daveinaus said:


> Australian duo Brendan Johnston and Cam Ivory teaming up for the Cape Epic next year as well. Will be interesting to see what they can do but I reckon a Top 10 finish is well within their capabilities. They are our two best XCO and XCM riders at the moment and both are very evenly matched.
> 
> Such a shame neither of them can get a ride in Europe on the World Cup circuit. I have no doubt they'd be Top 20 riders given the opportunity to race and train as full time professionals. Event though they are 1 and 2 in the country neither of them werre at the World Champs. Brendan Johnston is also by far our best XCM rider, *probably Top 10 in the world but wasn't at the World XCM championships as MTBA just don't have the funding to support their athletes. *
> 
> Anyway hopefully they do well and get some exposure to the bigger factory teams at the Cape Epic. They're both only 26 so there's still plenty of time to get picked up and have a shot at racing outside of Australia.


It's funny how there is unlimited funds if you're on the track (which 0.000000001% of people ride) but $0.50 if you're on mtb (which 70% of people ride)... cheers cycling australia.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

daveinaus said:


> Such a shame neither of them can get a ride in Europe on the World Cup circuit. I have no doubt they'd be Top 20 riders given the opportunity to race and train as full time professionals. Event though they are 1 and 2 in the country neither of them werre at the World Champs. Brendan Johnston is also by far our best XCM rider, probably Top 10 in the world but wasn't at the World XCM championships as MTBA just don't have the funding to support their athletes.


It is super hard, but in order to get a Pro-contract you have to do it on your own dime first.

When my wife was coming up we were super broke. She stayed in Canada and raced domestically when she had the speed to go and race WCs and crack the top 20. But we saved our money and waited until she had the speed to race in the top 10. Then we spent all of our money on a European race season, she got good results and landed a Pro-contract. It was a risk but it paid off.

The biggest challenge for non-europeans is when to go to Europe. If you go too early then you will spend a lot of money to get your arse handed to you, if you wait too long you stagnate on your domestic scene. It isn't an easy thing to do. And I think for those in the souther hemisphere it is even tougher.


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

Yeah absolutely, and I get that. But when your best riders aren't even at the World Champs and they don't make themselves available for selection at the Comm Games, (which was in Australia!) It's pretty obvious that there's something wrong there. I guess its just frustrating so see such talented riders not get a shot at the biggest stage simply due to the tyranny of distance (and money). Then again I'm sure that happens all the time. 

We do have some very talented juniors coming through ATM (including last years World Champion) so perhaps they will be able to break through on the WC circuit.


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

Stonerider said:


> Chris Blevins is a huge talent in XC MTB for the USA. Now that he's focused solely on MTBing until the 2020 Olympics, I hope we see him realize his full potential.


totally agreed! Dude has the power and skill to be a top contender for sure!


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

Stonerider said:


> Who is Sam's teammate for Cape Epic? I hope for his sake that Specialized has some better tires in production or he better be good at fixing flats like Kulhavy.


Simon, Alan or maybe even Jaro? I could see Simon and Alan teaming up to be the back up to Sam and Jaro...


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## insidertrading (Mar 12, 2018)

Afrobiker said:


> Simon, Alan or maybe even Jaro? I could see Simon and Alan teaming up to be the back up to Sam and Jaro...


a lot of strong riders to choose from in a Specialized team - enough for 3 teams really.

Sam and Jaro are similar riders; strong, power riders. Is it a positive 2 have 2 similar style riders together or have a hill climber, who can pair with Jaro and combine the 2 different strengths?


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

insidertrading said:


> a lot of strong riders to choose from in a Specialized team - enough for 3 teams really.
> 
> Sam and Jaro are similar riders; strong, power riders. Is it a positive 2 have 2 similar style riders together or have a hill climber, who can pair with Jaro and combine the 2 different strengths?


The Cape Epic favors teams with at least one workhorse who can put the watts down on flats. Miles upon miles of flat-ish fireroads.


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

insidertrading said:


> a lot of strong riders to choose from in a Specialized team - enough for 3 teams really.
> 
> Sam and Jaro are similar riders; strong, power riders. Is it a positive 2 have 2 similar style riders together or have a hill climber, who can pair with Jaro and combine the 2 different strengths?


Totally. I wonder if they'd put Jaro/Howie back together once again since they're the defending champs. Or maybe, Belvins/Howie, Jaro/Sam, Simon,Alan(I put this pair together since they paired together for late season stage races already as is)


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Whoa. Is Specialized fielding 6 guys in elite XCO races this year? 




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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

I seem to remember from last year that Sam will ride in the backup team for jaro and howie, but I could be mistaken


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## insidertrading (Mar 12, 2018)

dwperry said:


> I seem to remember from last year that Sam will ride in the backup team for jaro and howie, but I could be mistaken
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yes - Howie did such a great job last time, and Sam is untested at that event. I can understand how the Jaro/Howie combination seems the safe bet.

Still an oportunity for a very strong back-up team though. Even to have 2 competitiive teams to spread the risk, and 1 back-up team for both.


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

any news about Cannondale Factory shoe sponsor? Northwave has not yet prolonged for 2019 too. maybe Shimano stepping up with shoes too? (they are already with shimano groups)


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## insidertrading (Mar 12, 2018)

I see Yolanda won a big Marathon XC race in New Zealand yesterday, but NZ media had no idea who she was - one said she was from Thailand.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

insidertrading said:


> I see Yolanda won a big Marathon XC race in New Zealand yesterday, but NZ media had no idea who she was - one said she was from Thailand.


And she was riding her new Trek...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

She's come all this way and she's not doing the week long MTB stage race that started yesterday.

It's one of the 3 Epic Series Legend Races (The Pioneer, Swiss Epic and the Absa Cape Epic).


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Ondrej Cink to Kross Racing Team per Instagram post...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Langvad signed for Boels-Dolmans. 

Apparently she rode the WC road race in Innsbruck. I had no clue.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> Langvad signed for Boels-Dolmans.
> 
> Apparently she rode the WC road race in Innsbruck. I had no clue.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Although not her stated intention at this point, it would be interesting to see her dabble in CX. I am really fascinated by the MVDP story: absolutely destroys CX, wins road events, can't quite crack a win for XCO.


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## kylepeveto (Apr 25, 2006)

Langvad dabbled in CX last year. She did pretty well in one World Cup considering her spot at the back of the start grid.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Mantecon leaving Trek.


__
http://instagr.am/p/Bq-C5gMAfrk/


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## JoelGuelph (May 20, 2010)

Gunn-Rita is retiring (finally, lol!)
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/gunn-rita-dahle-flesja-announces-retirement-from-racing.html


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I also saw something about Carlos Coloma leaving Mondraker...


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

JoelGuelph said:


> Gunn-Rita is retiring (finally, lol!)
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/gunn-rita-dahle-flesja-announces-retirement-from-racing.html


Incredible woman, comes across as a real nice person too


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> Langvad signed for Boels-Dolmans.
> 
> Apparently she rode the WC road race in Innsbruck. I had no clue.


Wait, this is for road only/she's not leaving Specialized for MTB is she?

Both Langvad and Riisveds competed in road worlds. They were with the main contender bunch until near the end. They both had impressive races, the more so considering it's not their specialty.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

J-Flo said:


> Wait, this is for road only/she's not leaving Specialized for MTB is she?
> 
> Both Langvad and Riisveds competed in road worlds. They were with the main contender bunch until near the end. They both had impressive races, the more so considering it's not their specialty.




__
http://instagr.am/p/Bq7hCl-ldNG/


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Nino Schurter beats... Roger Federer! 

After having been nominated 10 times, he got elected tonight as the Swiss Sports Personality of the Year :thumbsup:

Even though our mountain bikers constantly get amazing success, MTB is not considered as a major sports in Switzerland yet, compared to road cycling, tennis or alpine skiing. Good to see that it is starting to be recognized as such. The world championships in Lenzerheide definitely made a difference this year.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

bananajoe said:


> Nino Schurter beats... Roger Federer!
> 
> After having been nominated 10 times, he got elected tonight as the Swiss Sports Personality of the Year
> 
> Even though our mountain bikers constantly get amazing success, MTB is not considered as a major sports in Switzerland yet, compared to road cycling, tennis or alpine skiing. Good to see that it is starting to be recognized as such. The world championships in Lenzerheide definitely made a difference this year.


That's awesome! Kudos to Nino 

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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Renzo7 said:


> That's awesome! Kudos to Nino
> 
> Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


That's great for XCO. He is for sure a great ambassador. The only blemish I can recall was his possibly less than sporting behaviour when Gaze beat him in Stellenbosch this year.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

madfella said:


> That's great for XCO. He is for sure a great ambassador. The only blemish I can recall was his possibly less than sporting behaviour when Gaze beat him in Stellenbosch this year.


I understand your point, though I saw that more as an "I'm angry and frustrated because I got unclipped at a critical moment" and not an "I'm angry that someone has won against me" kind of moment.

It might be the context in which I'm seeing it, but I didn't perceive it in a negative way. I don't recall if he made any negative comments in a post-race interview, though.



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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

J-Flo said:


> Wait, this is for road only/she's not leaving Specialized for MTB is she?
> 
> Both Langvad and Riisveds competed in road worlds. They were with the main contender bunch until near the end. They both had impressive races, the more so considering it's not their specialty.


Langvad and Neff raced road worlds, don't think Riisveds did.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

Rivet said:


> Langvad and Neff raced road worlds, don't think Riisveds did.


You're right! I confused Jolanda and Jenny (who hasn't raced in more than a year).

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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Looks like Lea Davidson could be changing teams. Or new sponsors for Luna. Just going off her Instagram.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

PFP is out for about four months because of an iliac artery endofibrosis. She should be back in Mai for the first World Cup.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Jolanda Neff is on the start list for today's UCI Cyclocross World Cup at Namur. She's riding her new Trek Boone CX bike.


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

How much do Top 10 riders in the world make? XC racers that is.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

Stonerider said:


> Jolanda Neff is on the start list for today's UCI Cyclocross World Cup at Namur. She's riding her new Trek Boone CX bike.


Watching Jolanda is pretty inspiring. You can really see the fight in her. Clawed her way to the top 10 from a 4th (?) row start. Sheesh.

Separate question: why don't we see more XC pros racing WC CX? I would think it would provide good training stimulus during the off-season.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

winters.benjamin said:


> Watching Jolanda is pretty inspiring. You can really see the fight in her. Clawed her way to the top 10 from a 4th (?) row start. Sheesh.
> 
> Separate question: why don't we see more XC pros racing WC CX? I would think it would provide good training stimulus during the off-season.


I read that Jolanda started from the 5th row. She is a fighter! I love her grit.

I don't know why more "male" WC XCO pros don't race WC CX. Maybe it's in their contract not to race CX because of the risk of injury. Remember last year Jolanda almost didn't make the start of the WC XCO season because she broke her collarbone racing CX. I also remember a few years back Julien Absalon broke his collarbone in a CX race. Others may be following the a periodized training plan where in the winter they try to limit their intensity and just do long, boring endurance rides.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

Stonerider said:


> I don't know why more "male" WC XCO pros don't race WC CX.


I tried to watch CX and I don't get the appeal if you're a mountain biker. Sure if you're a roadie CX allows you to get a little "roudy". In my eyes it's manufactured taped courses on open fields with placed sand, mud and man made obstacles. It feels very staged as opposed to racing through the woods and working with the natural terrain. Other than "it's the only fall/winter racing" or "I'm just trying to get miles in and stay fit", I don't understand why any MTB would do CX. Maybe I'm completely missing the allure of CX, but I just don't get it.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

MI-XC said:


> I tried to watch CX and I don't get the appeal if you're a mountain biker. Sure if you're a roadie CX allows you to get a little "roudy". In my eyes it's manufactured taped courses on open fields with placed sand, mud and man made obstacles. It feels very staged as opposed to racing through the woods and working with the natural terrain. Other than "it's the only fall/winter racing" or "I'm just trying to get miles in and stay fit", I don't understand why any MTB would do CX. Maybe I'm completely missing the allure of CX, but I just don't get it.


You just described WC MTB too and didn't even realize it.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

For many XC racers, winter is the time for base miles and trying to make a living.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

MI-XC said:


> I tried to watch CX and I don't get the appeal if you're a mountain biker. Sure if you're a roadie CX allows you to get a little "roudy". In my eyes it's manufactured taped courses on open fields with placed sand, mud and man made obstacles. It feels very staged as opposed to racing through the woods and working with the natural terrain. Other than "it's the only fall/winter racing" or "I'm just trying to get miles in and stay fit", I don't understand why any MTB would do CX. Maybe I'm completely missing the allure of CX, but I just don't get it.


Try it some time. Best if you can do it on a CX (my local series has cheap rentals I use). Just fun and silly to go out there on a road bike and race in any condition against a bunch of others doing the same. Works even better if you just like to ride any kind of bike. And if you do it for "fun", there is a lot of non serious racing going on with it.

If you are spectating, it is a really easy style of racing to watch. You can do it right in the city center at a park (my local races use kids playgrounds for the sand pits), so you don't have to travel to watch a race. They are tight so you can easily get around and find different spots to view from. And the people who take it serious are amazing to watch, especially if you have first hand experience yourself knowing how difficult something is.

I'm not personally into it. I race on occasion for fun, I did two this off season though I wanted to do more. I am not good at it (far better at MTB), and don't want to spend money on a good bike for it (though a good CX can double as a good road and mild adventure bike).

And it is going to be a massively popular sport in places where cycling is more popular (Europe) and where the winter road season sucks.

Most of the fast MTB guys I know also do CX (Not all), it still requires a huge amount of bike handling skills and you don't get the advantage of suspension and large tires to help smooth things out. Getting good at your "CX dismount" helps out when you are in an XC race and need to bail off the bike to run through an obstacle (whether too technically difficult or traffic is blocking you).

It's not going to be for everyone of course, but that may help to clear up the appeal.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

MI-XC said:


> I tried to watch CX and I don't get the appeal if you're a mountain biker. Sure if you're a roadie CX allows you to get a little "roudy". In my eyes it's manufactured taped courses on open fields with placed sand, mud and man made obstacles. It feels very staged as opposed to racing through the woods and working with the natural terrain. Other than "it's the only fall/winter racing" or "I'm just trying to get miles in and stay fit", I don't understand why any MTB would do CX. Maybe I'm completely missing the allure of CX, but I just don't get it.


If you haven't done it you really can't comment. The hilarious thing I always hear from the (mtb only crowd) is how they thinks it's just roadies on dirt, wrong CX rewards bike handling skills as much as MTB racing. Look at the best in the US all ripping MTB/BMX racers at one time. I have raced every discipline of cycling except Track at the expert level and to do well bike driving is a requirement in all. MTB only people suffer this delusion that they are somehow superior bike riders, you're not. Jump into a crit sometime and get back to me.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> I read that Jolanda started from the 5th row. She is a fighter! I love her grit.
> 
> I don't know why more "male" WC XCO pros don't race WC CX. Maybe it's in their contract not to race CX because of the risk of injury. Remember last year Jolanda almost didn't make the start of the WC XCO season because she broke her collarbone racing CX. I also remember a few years back Julien Absalon broke his collarbone in a CX race. Others may be following the a periodized training plan where in the winter they try to limit their intensity and just do long, boring endurance rides.


I know a lot of the Swiss guys do the EKZ series. Forster, Indergand, Rohrbach, Frischknecht.


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

Rivet said:


> I know a lot of the Swiss guys do the EKZ series. Forster, Indergand, Rohrbach, Frischknecht.


The Danish WC guys here (ie National XC Champ Sebastian Fini and Simon Andreassen) only occasionally jump into the odd local CX. Actually I don't think Andreassen has done any yet. Fini just a just a couple here and maybe a Swedish one.

With CX World Champs here in Bogense in Feb, I thought they might be doing more but not really.

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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Even Wyn Masters races the occasional CX


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

peabody said:


> You just described WC MTB too and didn't even realize it.


You just informed us you didn't watch the 2019 WC MTB season and didn't even realize it.

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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

Rivet said:


> If you haven't done it you really can't comment. The hilarious thing I always hear from the (mtb only crowd) is how they thinks it's just roadies on dirt, wrong CX rewards bike handling skills as much as MTB racing. Look at the best in the US all ripping MTB/BMX racers at one time. I have raced every discipline of cycling except Track at the expert level and to do well bike driving is a requirement in all. MTB only people suffer this delusion that they are somehow superior bike riders, you're not. Jump into a crit sometime and get back to me.


I think you missed my point there and are turning the discussion into something else. You and my exwife would get along great ?. I said it's not appealing (to me as a XCO/XCM racer), nothing about the ability, fitness or skill required. I can't stand riding on the road, so I'll pass on the crit invitation. Not because I think I'm better, but because I prefer the singletrack, rocks, roots and the woods. I don't want to see buildings, roads, curbs, people, noise, etc., I get that every day through work.


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## GChuckyB (Oct 25, 2017)

...


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Does someone remember which episode (from GMBN, I think) had a review of Stephane Tempier's bike?

I recall him racing with an extraordinarily high gear, with his lowest being something like 38 chainring with a 36 cassette. 

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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

Renzo7 said:


> with his lowest being something like 38 chainring with a 36 cassette.


Ouch.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Renzo7 said:


> Does someone remember which episode (from GMBN, I think) had a review of Stephane Tempier's bike?
> 
> I recall him racing with an extraordinarily high gear, with his lowest being something like 38 chainring with a 36 cassette.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


He needs to harden up. I race with a low gear of 32/22.
But my FTP is off the chart.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

tgoods said:


> You just informed us you didn't watch the 2019 WC MTB season and didn't even realize it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow did you think of that all by yourself?
Watched every one of them but you already
knew that didn't you?


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

Tempier regularly uses a 38tooth chainring. For some of the XCC events he went for an Ultegra 11s cassette that is 11-34. For the XCO events it was a standard XTR cassette (not entirely sure about NMNM).


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

"Specialized" on Kate Courtney´s jerseys in her Insta stories and pics has almost disappeared. Uci logo and not more else. I look forward to Jan 1st


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

pastronef said:


> "Specialized" on Kate Courtney´s jerseys in her Insta stories and pics has almost disappeared. Uci logo and not more else. I look forward to Jan 1st


I've noticed this too. Also- her bike has not been pictured at all either (although I'm sure she isn't on anything new yet just in case). I feel like it's got to be Scott.

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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

chilla13 said:


> Tempier regularly uses a 38tooth chainring. For some of the XCC events he went for an Ultegra 11s cassette that is 11-34. For the XCO events it was a standard XTR cassette (not entirely sure about NMNM).


Thanks for the comment. I didn't know that that was his XCC setup 

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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

csteven71 said:


> I've noticed this too. Also- her bike has not been pictured at all either (although I'm sure she isn't on anything new yet just in case). I feel like it's got to be Scott.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Appears Scott has freed up some space in the budget.


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## JoelGuelph (May 20, 2010)

zgxtreme said:


> Appears Scott has freed up some space in the budget.


Location: World Poker Tour

Lol

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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

peabody said:


> Wow did you think of that all by yourself?
> Watched every one of them but you already
> knew that didn't you?


Yep, clearly you did. As you implied there nothing but open fields with sand, mud, and man made obstacles here!

https://www.redbull.com/us-en/mont-sainte-anne-xco-world-cup-rd6-race-results

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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

pastronef said:


> "Specialized" on Kate Courtney´s jerseys in her Insta stories and pics has almost disappeared. Uci logo and not more else. I look forward to Jan 1st


If Specialized let Kate go, that seems like a huge mistake.

Even just in terms of exposure to the NICA crowd, you'd think that would be huge.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

litany said:


> If Specialized let Kate go, that seems like a huge mistake.


I do not think Specialized "let Kate go". I think it is more a case of the World Champ deciding that her interests would be best served by another team.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Where is KC rumored to be going?

I'd hazard it would be Scott-SRAM, but that's just my uneducated guess.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

LMN said:


> I do not think Specialized "let Kate go". I think it is more a case of the World Champ deciding that her interests would be best served by another team.


The grass is not always greener. Scott looks to be rather primitive still when it comes to outside the race support. However, a move there could open up for Rissveds to be supported by Specialized on race weekends, as her aim is to have her own team but only have support during WC events. She are using a lot of Spez gears nowdays...


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> I don't know why more "male" WC XCO pros don't race WC CX. Maybe it's in their .


Because it's not that simple.
Your Federation has to approve you and send your entry to the UCI a week before the event. And some Federations are already maxed out on rider limits.

You will need a couple of bikes and wheels....plus at least one mechanic.

Without UCI CX points....they would have to start at the back of the field.

After all that...unless they were a top 5 XCO rider, they would probably get pulled with 1 or 2 laps to go. That's a lot of work for 40ish minutes of racing.

Same with racing "local" races. There is a UCI rule about UCI registered pro riders not able to race non UCI sanctioned races. Some countries enforce this....like Belgium and Netherlands, where they have "Elites without contract" races at local races ( UCI trade team riders aren't allowed)


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

tgoods said:


> Yep, clearly you did. As you implied there nothing but open fields with sand, mud, and man made obstacles here!
> 
> https://www.redbull.com/us-en/mont-sainte-anne-xco-world-cup-rd6-race-results
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are obviously young or haven't been watching xc racing very long.
The courses used to be natural, very long laps and races that went 2.5hrs
plus.

They are now more in common with cx for viewing purposes. There are
a lot of man made obstacles, short laps, pits, and races are 1.5hrs.

Are cx courses more tame than xc, of course, but cx bikes themselves
are not as capable, so it is similar.

Hopefully you are intelligent enough to comprehend.


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

plupp said:


> The grass is not always greener. Scott looks to be rather primitive still when it comes to outside the race support. However, a move there could open up for Rissveds to be supported by Specialized on race weekends, as her aim is to have her own team but only have support during WC events. She are using a lot of Spez gears nowdays...


Jenny Rissveds has been off instagram since Nov 14th. no idea what she´s riding


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

For all those speculating on Kate Courtney and Specialized parting company, BikeRumor just posted the press release from Spesh today. Interesting that the video was posted to YouTube on Oct 29, but likely only just made it accessible to the public with the press release.






https://bikerumor.com/2018/12/30/mo...ecialized-farewell-video-makes-us-wanna-ride/

"As 2018 comes to a close and plans for 2019 finalize, Kate has decided to make a change of direction with her program. We are extremely sad to see her go but also grateful for the many wonderful years we shared together."


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

__
http://instagr.am/p/BsBLpYQFaU8/


__
http://instagr.am/p/BsBO6XShFrA/


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

My guess is that Specialized is losing the right to use Kate in their marketing on Jan 1, which would explain why they went public with this today. I’m sure they would have loved to keep her, but that they could not do so for various reasons, whether self-imposed or otherwise.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

J-Flo said:


> My guess is that Specialized is losing the right to use Kate in their marketing on Jan 1, which would explain why they went public with this today. I'm sure they would have loved to keep her, but that they could not do so for various reasons, whether self-imposed or otherwise.


I find it so strange that a company with the budget of Specialized, whose headquarters is based in California, USA, wouldn't do everything in their power to keep a World Champion athlete who also from California, USA. Specialized has thrown huge money for years at athletes such as Mark Cavendish, Peter Sagan, Kulhavy, etc. It makes no sense that they couldn't outbid a much smaller company to keep a young World Champion in their house; even if it meant cutting loose some of their "aging" athletes who have seen better days.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> I find it so strange that a company with the budget of Specialized, whose headquarters is based in California, USA, wouldn't do everything in their power to keep a World Champion athlete who also from California, USA. Specialized has thrown huge money for years at athletes such as Mark Cavendish, Peter Sagan, Kulhavy, etc. It makes no sense that they couldn't outbid a much smaller company to keep a young World Champion in their house; even if it meant cutting loose some of their "aging" athletes who have seen better days.


I wonder if XC athletes just aren't worth the money, at some point. I'd be curious to see how many Epics they sell vs Tarmacs.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Kate is leaving Specialized. This is from her Facebook page. No mention on where she is going


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

J-Flo said:


> My guess is that Specialized is losing the right to use Kate in their marketing on Jan 1, which would explain why they went public with this today. I'm sure they would have loved to keep her, but that they could not do so for various reasons, whether self-imposed or otherwise.


strange. she posted many pics in the last month on Insta and has just the UCI and Assos logo on the jersey, many black training jerseys, no bike pics.
it´s something gone wrong after she beat Langvad and won the worlds. things went faster, Scott offered more. Langvad + Kate wasn´t going to work in 2019 maybe. so things changed suddenly


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

Two notes:

1. Specialized doesn’t own any of the World Tour (road) teams for which they provide equipment. So they don’t have to pay rider salaries, mechanics, director, support staff, travel etc. (They have a deal with Bora-Hansgrohe—they don’t pay Sagan’s salary!). The Specialized Factory MTB team is completely different economically, so there isn’t really a comparison. And MTB racing is also completely different economically from road racing. There is dramatically less money in the sport at present, and it is principally supported by the bike industry, riders and avid fans. Our best hope for that to change, in my view, is for the World Cup coverage to reach a wider TV audience. RedBull TV is great but it isn’t even among the 1000 channels of crap I get on cable. 

2. It’s pointless to speculate why riders and teams separate. The only clear conclusion for those on the outside is that one or both parties concluded it was the right move. And those on the inside, who know the whole story, likely won’t discuss the details, which is as it should be. Teams and riders can make multi-year deals if they want to (look at the deal Egan Bernal just got from Sky, although that team likely won’t exist long enough to fulfill it). When they go year-to-year the future is less certain for everyone.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

J-Flo said:


> Two notes:
> 
> (They have a deal with Bora-Hansgrohe-they don't pay Sagan's salary!)


In fact Specialized does pay a large portion of Sagans salary much like they did with Contador when he rode for Tinkoff.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Lots of movement at Scott, Stiernman, Heyden and Andrei out. 

So Kate and who else is joining? 

Degn?
Kerschbaumer?


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

Andri Frischknecht is staying with Scott. He just said goodbye to van der Hejden and Stirnemann.
Lakata is teaming up with Karl Platt at Bulls.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

plupp said:


> Lots of movement at Scott, Stiernman, Heyden and Andrei out.
> 
> So Kate and who else is joining?
> 
> ...


Kerschbaumer to Scott or Specialized. He deserves a big team with good support.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Tomorrow should be exciting!


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Have you guys seen Jenny Rissveds' latest IG posts? Something cool is about to be announced 

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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

Rivet said:


> Kerschbaumer to Scott or Specialized. He deserves a big team with good support.


Uhmm, I suspect Schurter wouldn't be all that keen on the Kerschbaumer to Scott idea of yours.


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## stacers (Oct 29, 2012)

Am I the only one who is dying to know if Brad Copeland will leave Specialized to go with Kate? They're good marketing together.


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## darth tracer (Jan 13, 2004)

stacers said:


> Am I the only one who is dying to know if Brad Copeland will leave Specialized to go with Kate? They're good marketing together.


Reading some comments on his IG it looks like he is going to a different "S" logo, meaning Scott I'm guessing with Kate C.


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## Don1c (Jan 11, 2015)

stacers said:


> Am I the only one who is dying to know if Brad Copeland will leave Specialized to go with Kate? They're good marketing together.


It was my first thought when I saw Kate's announcement!

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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Renzo7 said:


> Have you guys seen Jenny Rissveds' latest IG posts? Something cool is about to be announced
> 
> Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


Specialized?

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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Renzo7 said:


> Have you guys seen Jenny Rissveds' latest IG posts? Something cool is about to be announced
> 
> Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


Took me a min to figure out the puzzle and check her page in lieu of my feed.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

zgxtreme said:


> Took me a min to figure out the puzzle and check her page in lieu of my feed.


I usually have some really solid inside information as to what is going on but I do not have a clue as to who she is racing for next year.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

The most recent one says "Let's go". 

No statement on the team or brands she'll be representing, but it's likely to be announced really soon. 

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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

stacers said:


> Am I the only one who is dying to know if Brad Copeland will leave Specialized to go with Kate? They're good marketing together.


Haha i asked her if Brad is coming with her and he liked it.

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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Holy SH**! Neff just destroyed all professional cyclocrossers on GP Sven Nys, 2nd place , World champ S.Cant seemed like amateur in the mud


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

darth tracer said:


> Reading some comments on his IG it looks like he is going to a different "S" logo, meaning Scott I'm guessing with Kate C.


Just to add to speculation, she did include a hashtag #focusforward in her post about leaving S.

But I think she is going to Scott and Jenny R is going to Spec.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

LMN said:


> I usually have some really solid inside information as to what is going on but I do not have a clue as to who she is racing for next year.


Side note... good to see Clif being so supportive of Catherine's desires and goals for the coming year.


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## LHSN (Mar 22, 2009)

New 2019 team for Victor Koretzky. KMC Ekoi Orbea
Or just the new bike


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

zgxtreme said:


> Took me a min to figure out the puzzle and check her page in lieu of my feed.


That certainly looks like an S-Works Prevail helmet in profile.


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## grawp (Apr 22, 2012)

Sanne Cant has been racing once or twice a weekend since August and over five days in a row or something similar during the Christmas period. She's probably a bit tired 
I did enjoy seeing Neff win though as Cant usually wins a last lap battle.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Well power-wise Cant seemed much stronger to me than Neff, she just lacked technical skills that cost her a win, and the place where she crashed - she tried to took the same line as Neff, she never took that on previous laps.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Raikzz said:


> ...- she tried to took the same line as Neff, she never took that on previous laps.


Trying to stay with Neff on any technical section is asking for trouble. If you are lucky you don't die. If you are really lucky your only see you life flashing before your eyes as you see her blond locks just moving away in the distance.


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

Rivet said:


> That certainly looks like an S-Works Prevail helmet in profile.


Still Looks like the Oakley helmet she's been wearing since she got off Scott. I thought I remember reading she signed a deal with them through her "privateer" support?


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## grawp (Apr 22, 2012)

Raikzz said:


> Well power-wise Cant seemed much stronger to me than Neff, she just lacked technical skills that cost her a win, and the place where she crashed - she tried to took the same line as Neff, she never took that on previous laps.


Sorry but again I feel the need to stand up for Cant. She's a professional cx racer and has been for her whole adult life. Neff had a good day on a course that wasn't very technical. For me as an avid cx fan it looked like Neff could use her power to overcome her lack of cx specific skill. I'm not knocking Neff, usually root for her in xc races as she's a joy to watch and I love it that she's getting stuck into cx as well, but I'm also a fan of Sanne Cant because she's the queen of cx in my opinion. She races virtually every race on the calendar like the true professional she is (start/finish money is her source of income, whereas riders with year long sponsorship from companies like Trek can pick and choose their races thus can be a lot fresher by this point in the season).


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

grawp said:


> Sorry but again I feel the need to stand up for Cant. She's a professional cx racer and has been for her whole adult life. Neff had a good day on a course that wasn't very technical. For me as an avid cx fan it looked like Neff could use her power to overcome her lack of cx specific skill. I'm not knocking Neff, usually root for her in xc races as she's a joy to watch and I love it that she's getting stuck into cx as well, but I'm also a fan of Sanne Cant because she's the queen of cx in my opinion. She races virtually every race on the calendar like the true professional she is (start/finish money is her source of income, whereas riders with year long sponsorship from companies like Trek can pick and choose their races thus can be a lot fresher by this point in the season).


Is this going to become a CX forum now?


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## NATO5 (Dec 28, 2016)

Aaaaand Kate Courtney officially to Scott on her IG.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

__
http://instagr.am/p/BsLhW-whr3D/

Kate's statement on going to Scott-Sram.

Much success to her!

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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

Lars Forster also joins Scott-Sram


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

So I guess her new branding is “the shark”?


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Renzo7 said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BsLhW-whr3D/
> 
> Kate's statement on going to Scott-Sram.
> ...


What a depressingly bad promotion video, is this 2019?
Anyway... hope she does well and that Scott can take care of her talent better than they did with Rissveds.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Skier78 said:


> What a depressingly bad promotion video, is this 2019?
> Anyway... hope she does well and that Scott can take care of her talent better than they did with Rissveds.


Marketing: Okay, we have the storyboard

Leg shot
Action with excessive wind noise
Another leg shot
More wind noise action shots
Torso pan
Coastal California "technical riding"
Wink
Logo outro

Board: brilliant!

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## Ranger Pride (Jan 21, 2005)

Still waiting to hear who Jenny Risveds will ride for in 2019.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Bigger news, Brads Bio has the Scott Sram website in it so looks like he is sticking with Kate. 

Listened to the podcast he was in and sounded like he was dedicated to 3 spec racers not just her.... 

If you want some s works bikes DM him on insta for his old rides via his comments hahaha


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Ranger Pride said:


> Still waiting to hear who Jenny Risveds will ride for in 2019.


She said during the fall that she was going to set up her own team to race for, I'm guessing on these sponsors:

Oakley
Thule
BMW
Specialized

Being swedish myself I really hope she can make it work, need more scandinavians to cheer for in the world cup!


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

Skier78 said:


> What a depressingly bad promotion video, is this 2019?
> Anyway... hope she does well and that *Scott can take care of her talent better than they did with Rissveds.*


https://cyclingtips.com/2018/02/oly...rissveds-ends-contract-address-mental-health/

According to this article the problem laid not just with the Swedish Cycling Federation but it's manager in particular Anders Bromee.

There's no mention of a dispute between Rissveds and the Scott SRAM team.

The article claims that stress from family issues along with tensions with Swedish Cycling, not any problems with Scott-SRAM led her to take a leave from racing.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

westernmtb said:


> https://cyclingtips.com/2018/02/oly...rissveds-ends-contract-address-mental-health/
> 
> According to this article the problem laid not just with the Swedish Cycling Federation but it's manager in particular Anders Bromee.
> 
> ...


I know that the main problem was said to be the Swedish Cycling Federation but my opinion is that it is not that simple, eating disorders and depressions should have been seen by the team and they should have made sure she got professional help.

Why would she choose to not go back to Scott-SRAM if there were no problems with the team? I think Scott-SRAM started looking for alternatives mid 2018 once it was clear Rissveds did not want to come back to them.


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

Skier78 said:


> I know that the main problem was said to be the Swedish Cycling Federation but my opinion is that it is not that simple, eating disorders and depressions should have been seen by the team and they should have made sure she got professional help.
> 
> Why would she choose to not go back to Scott-SRAM if there were no problems with the team? I think Scott-SRAM started looking for alternatives mid 2018 once it was clear Rissveds did not want to come back to them.


A pro mtb team doesn't have the expertise to diagnose clinical depression or eating disorders.

They do have the expertise and resources to provide bicycles, mechanics, resources for travel, coaching and other resources necessary to compete.

I don't know of any professional team that provides in-house mental health counseling or monitors it's athletes for specific problems that may or may not full under the category of mental health, such as eating disorders. I don't even know of any teams that even provide referrals for such problems.

It's not even clear if Rissveds ever made her mental health problems or eating disorder known to anyone on the team. If so, how could they have known?

In the NBA for example, Kevin Love recently talked about his struggles with anxiety. No one knew about this problem. He kept it to himself. He did not ask any team officials for assistance so none was offered.

You're insisting upon a level of personal and private knowledge on the part of Scott SRAM that would be intrusive. An athlete is under no obligation to discuss personal health or family issues. She did eventually divulge these issues publicly, but no team can be expected to pry so deeply as to probe for mental health problems or family matters. Whatever blame you place on Scott SRAM is 100% unwarranted.

You're not simply implying but openly blaming negligence on the part of Scott SRAM and there is zero evidence of such. If anything, Scott SRAM clearly acted as an advocate, offering common sense advice on the illegality of the extremely unreasonable demands on the part of SCF, especially Anders in particular. They also attempted to negotiate a compromise agreement which again the SCF rejected.

Scott SRAM acted ethically and did as much as they could within legal limits. Now you ask them to know every detail of Rissveds' personal life and emotional state and make everything perfect too? Impossible.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

All I am saying is that it is never that simple that it is only one side to blame (in this case SCF) for such a complex issue as mental problems. I don't know (and I don't think you do either) what was said and done between Rissveds and Scott-Sram. 

Of course a team cannot know everything an athlete goes through, but they still spend a lot of time together during the year both training and racing and eating disorders seems to be quite common among young athletes so my personal opinion is that it is something a team should look out for.


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

Skier78 said:


> All I am saying is that it is never that simple that it is only one side to blame (in this case SCF) for such a complex issue as mental problems. I don't know (and I don't think you do either) what was said and done between Rissveds and Scott-Sram.
> 
> Of course a team cannot know everything an athlete goes through, but they still spend a lot of time together during the year both training and racing and eating disorders seems to be quite common among young athletes so my personal opinion is that it is something a team should look out for.


You're playing "white knight" games here. If the athlete in question were male, you would have no such problems with any supposed or alleged negligence. And you seem to imply more than that: Scott SRAM was somehow actively out to undermine her. Ludicrous!

If eating disorders were actually to become a priority, 90% of professional cyclists would have to go into treatment immediately. You are trying to paint Rissveds as a martyr completely neglected by the stupid, insensitive boors on Scott SRAM. In case you fail to realize:

1. Rissveds is an *adult*. She is responsible for seeking help herself if she has significant problems. Sweden is a 1st world country, no? Exemplary health care system, no? She has access to all necessary resources. All she has to do is admit the problem. She didn't so her team would never know.

2. Scott SRAM could not predict the events in her family life, nor force her to avoid depression or anxiety as a result. To blame Scott SRAM for her mental health challenges is so stupid, it's beyond belief.

3. Rissveds had a problem with Anders. What should Scott SRAM have done? Make them "an offer they can't refuse?" Send Luca Brasi? Put a horse's head in his bed? Her team acted reasonably and within the law. They negotiated a compromise, which Anders and SWF reneged on.

Your insistence on blaming SRAM is borderline idiotic. I am tempted to call it the sexism of low expectations. You are assuming women don't have control over their own lives so they must be handheld and coddled the entire way by omnipotent, omniscient men whose only purpose is to protect women from any melancholy or hurtful experiences.

This is liberal delusion of the worst order. Rissveds is an adult. She encountered challenging circumstances and took time off to address them.

Stop demonizing her former team. They did nothing wrong. Your allegations against them are completely unfounded. They are 100% delusional. Step back into reality.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

"_So if we agree to Jenny riding in a POC helmet, it would be the beginning of the end. It could then continue to become a much larger problem._" T Frischknecht

Step back into reality? Like the corporate reality of shareholders in Scott SRAM being protected over the well-being of an individual?

Her withdrawal from the worlds was framed as a fight of 'supportive' teams against illogical bureaucrats and middle men, but at the core are the repeated statements of protecting contractual agreements of team sponsors.

Good luck, Kate.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

westernmtb said:


> https://cyclingtips.com/2018/02/oly...rissveds-ends-contract-address-mental-health/
> 
> According to this article the problem laid not just with the Swedish Cycling Federation but it's manager in particular Anders Bromee.
> 
> ...


What I heard was that Scott and the swedish federation didn't care for her at a personal level, she was merely treated as an asset and these two entities were willing to sacrifice her to prove a point.

Despite all circumstances an agreement could have been made if they wanted to, but both of them would rather put Jenny in a bad position.

A world champion and she was not allowed to race, merely because of greed. However that is how capitalism work and I would say she has learned that lesson, sadly.

That's why I think she left Scott and won't ever come back.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

Not sure why the rehash of the Jenny-Worlds-Scott vs Sweden idiocy, but it always appeared to me to indicate some combination of immaturity/poor organization of the sport (the sponsorship contracts should have anticipated this kind of conflict and provided a means to resolve it) and obstinacy of one or more of the personalities involved. We can all agree that keeping the reining champ out of Worlds was the worst possible result of the conflict. It’s almost as stupid as shutting down the whole government over a disagreement about 0.5% of the budget. This one should have been much easier to solve. 

Similar issues must arise in other sports. What happens when an Adidas athlete runs for the Nike-sponsored US Olympic team? 

Regardless, I would bet good money that this kind of bs sponsorship conflict, even if it were to arise, won’t prevent Kate from racing Worlds at MSA this year.


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

Regarding the male ranks, I really hope that 2019 will see Kerschbaumer at the podium of the overall WC.

This guy is amazing - would you believe that a top pro rider can train at that level without power meter, without gps and ... without odometer? 
Italian only, but worth the google translation:

https://www.pianetamountainbike.it/...dei-pro-gerhard-kershbaumer-il-top-rider-naif


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

zgxtreme said:


> Took me a min to figure out the puzzle and check her page in lieu of my feed.


From a certain perspective, it could read _piecing myself together out of darkness_, rather than a sponsorship announcement. Would seem fitting given the tone of her last few insta posts. It's funny how interpretations differ.

As for why this is being "re-hashed," these discussions are ok! It is healthy to allow space for talking about human vulnerability and the need to look out for one another in this corner of our world. Here's a link to a good resource if anyone needs support with mental health:

https://www.beyondblue.org.au/personal-best/pillar/supporting-yourself

It would be wonderful to see JR healthy and happy; bonus for us if she returns to elite mtb also.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

From Scott-sram insta


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

J-Flo said:


> Not sure why the rehash of the Jenny-Worlds-Scott vs Sweden idiocy, but it always appeared to me to indicate some combination of immaturity/poor organization of the sport (the sponsorship contracts should have anticipated this kind of conflict and provided a means to resolve it) and obstinacy of one or more of the personalities involved. We can all agree that keeping the reining champ out of Worlds was the worst possible result of the conflict. It's almost as stupid as shutting down the whole government over a disagreement about 0.5% of the budget. This one should have been much easier to solve.
> 
> Similar issues must arise in other sports. What happens when an Adidas athlete runs for the Nike-sponsored US Olympic team?
> 
> Regardless, I would bet good money that this kind of bs sponsorship conflict, even if it were to arise, won't prevent Kate from racing Worlds at MSA this year.


Yep. Scott team should have/could have anticipated these issues with the federation WELL ahead of time.

If they actually cared about their athlete and having her race, they would have mitigated what they could have and dealt with the rest of the fall out. In the end, they dropped the ball on sorting out the issues ahead of time and decided it better to not allow her to race than use some non-sponsor equipment.


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

TDLover said:


> A world champion and she was not allowed to race, merely because of greed. However that is how capitalism work and I would say she has learned that lesson, sadly.


So capitalism is to blame? Because capitalism = greed? Seriously? Do you realize that there would be no World Cup race series period without capitalism? Is there a vibrant race series in Venezuela or Cuba right now? I'm so tired of grown adults who prosper in capitalistic societies constantly taking a dump on capitalism.

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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

Feideaux said:


> "_So if we agree to Jenny riding in a POC helmet, it would be the beginning of the end. It could then continue to become a much larger problem._" T Frischknecht
> 
> Step back into reality? Like the corporate reality of shareholders in Scott SRAM being protected over the well-being of an individual?
> 
> ...


Yes, this is how the world works. Sponsors won't fund a team if they can't get a guarantee their products will be represented. When you interview for a job do you tell the company that you may or may not show up for work?

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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/dv...iversities-cyclocross-2019/elite-men/results/

MvdP took his 23rd (!) victory of the season in cx yesterday. Maybe it has been discussed before, is he planning on doing a full xco season on top of that or will he take any time off? 
Super impressive riding either way.


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## yashoe (Jun 7, 2018)

In response to a few people speculating from a few weeks back, Kerschbaumer re signed with Torpado Gabogas for 2 more years back in august right after his win in Andorra. Great move in my opinion, they brought him back from a tough spot, and it seems he went straight to the top  They seem to work great together.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Ausable said:


> Regarding the male ranks, I really hope that 2019 will see Kerschbaumer at the podium of the overall WC.
> 
> This guy is amazing - would you believe that a top pro rider can train at that level without power meter, without gps and ... without odometer?
> Italian only, but worth the google translation:
> ...


That was a different approach, really interesting read, thank you!


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

tgoods said:


> Yes, this is how the world works. Sponsors won't fund a team if they can't get a guarantee their products will be represented. When you interview for a job do you tell the company that you may or may not show up for work?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, thanks, we get all that. Corporate ethics and human ethics are usually incompatible. Moral relativism, drinks all round.

No one is arguing the logic of the situation - we are discussing the tragedy of it.

The obfuscation of Frischnecht was portraying himself as a knight in shining armor despite being the one who *prevented* Rissveds from "showing up to work" at the world championships even though she, her co-sponsors and the Swiss Cycling Federation wanted her to be there.

His line "It's a shame what happened to Jenny" is the type of statement I've heard before from cognitive sociopaths, and I've worked under a few. It's always useful to remind ourselves that these people are out there, possibly including Old Mate a few posts up.


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## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

^ Ease up on the assumptions. You really have no idea what you're talking about.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Feideaux said:


> Yes, thanks, we get all that. Corporate ethics and human ethics are usually incompatible. Moral relativism, drinks all round.
> 
> *No one is arguing the logic of the situation* - we are discussing the tragedy of it.
> 
> The obfuscation of Frischnecht was portraying himself as a knight in shining armor *despite being the one who prevented Rissveds from "showing up to work" at the world championships even though she, her co-sponsors and the Swiss Cycling Federation wanted her to be there.*


(Emphasis mine)

I think what you're searching for is "crony capitalism". If so, then I agree, it often leads to moral hazards. In this case, that a governing body managed to get in bed with a brand causes obvious conflicts of interest when they don't also pay for the athlete to pursue their profession.

It would be as if you were a widget maker for company A, but to go to the international widget making convention, your country forced you to instead go and represent company B's widgets. Frischnecht was correct that the demands of riders from a country riding specific brands leads to a situation where companies (who pay for the racer to be a professional) have to pay for a rider to go represent a different brand.

To say that "she, her co-sponsors and the Swiss Cycling Federation wanted her to be there" is bologne, because Scott also wanted her to be there. The difference is that one group who wasn't putting on food on her table held her team hostage.

This all, of course, is under the assumption that what's been written about the debacle is at least somewhat accurate. (And also that I understand even vaguely Sweden's economic system)


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Feideaux said:


> Yes, thanks, we get all that. Corporate ethics and human ethics are usually incompatible. Moral relativism, drinks all round.
> 
> No one is arguing the logic of the situation - we are discussing the tragedy of it.
> 
> ...


I'm guessing the Swiss federation did NOT have any vested interest in her toeing the line.

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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

^ yeah the Swiss Federation did not care at all
the Swedish Federation on the other hand...


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Jaroslav Kulhavy creates his own team, with Specialized bikes. 
He will ride the Cape Epic with Howard Grotts, and with Christoph Sauser and Simon Andreassen as backup team.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

bananajoe said:


> Jaroslav Kulhavy creates his own team, with Specialized bikes.
> He will ride the Cape Epic with Howard Grotts, and with Christoph Sauser and Simon Andreassen as backup team.


Not surprised by this at all.

It seemed his heart wasn't in XCO at all the last year or two. I wouldn't be surprised to see him at races like Leadville and other endurance events.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Makes a lot of sense...

It seems Specialized dumped a lot of $$$ off their books. Focus looks like will be on the kids (lower salaries???) or change of game plan...

Don't get me wrong, but Jaro has never repeated the success he had in 2011 when he was probably one of the only few riders on a 29'er, and probably the only one on a full suspension 29'er. He may have an incomparable wattage at his disposal, but XCO has evolved into more technical and explosive riding compared to 7 years ago. It has to be more than power-to-weight ratio, and I haven't seen him evolve his style so much.


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

bananajoe said:


> Jaroslav Kulhavy creates his own team, with Specialized bikes.
> He will ride the Cape Epic with Howard Grotts, and with Christoph Sauser and Simon Andreassen as backup team.


Sauser again? he retired 2 years ago...


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

https://www.bikehub.co.za/features/...erly-and-sam-gaze-team-up-for-cape-epic-r7666

Hatherly and Sam Gaze team up for Cape Epic


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

pastronef said:


> Sauser again? he retired 2 years ago...


Sauser could probably alternately retire and unretire as often as he wants for the next decade and come back reasonably competitive every time in endurance format events.

What does "retired" mean anyhow? That he is never allowed to participate in another race for the rest of his life? Cape Epic is mostly amateur riders with a smattering of marquee riders off the front. Put Sauser in whichever of those groups best suits you.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Has there been some kind of announcement from Jaroslav Kulhavy? I saw the Cape Epic promoter’s Instagram post, but I read it as Kulhavy and Grotts forming a special team for the race, specifically.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

PlanB said:


> Has there been some kind of announcement from Jaroslav Kulhavy? I saw the Cape Epic promoter's Instagram post, but I read it as Kulhavy and Grotts forming a special team for the race, specifically.


---->


bananajoe said:


> Jaroslav Kulhavy creates his own team, with Specialized bikes.
> He will ride the Cape Epic with Howard Grotts, and with Christoph Sauser and Simon Andreassen as backup team.


edit: oh or are you asking about the discussion already? not about the IG post? (my heads broken, roll on knock off time, shut up customers:madman


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

PlanB said:


> Has there been some kind of announcement from Jaroslav Kulhavy? I saw the Cape Epic promoter's Instagram post, but I read it as Kulhavy and Grotts forming a special team for the race, specifically.


https://www.bikehub.co.za/features/...zed-out-to-defend-their-cape-epic-title-r7665


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

PlanB said:


> Has there been some kind of announcement from Jaroslav Kulhavy? I saw the Cape Epic promoter's Instagram post, but I read it as Kulhavy and Grotts forming a special team for the race, specifically.


As far as I can tell this is just business as usual, right? The Specialized team has long ridden under the Investec/Songo banner for Cape Epic. Even Burry and Susi were Songo.

Now, Jaro might well be leaving the Specialized factory team. But the Cape Epic team branding has nothing to do with that.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

briscoelab said:


> As far as I can tell this is just business as usual, right? The Specialized team has long ridden under the Investec/Songo banner for Cape Epic. Even Burry and Susi were Songo.
> 
> Now, Jaro might well be leaving the Specialized factory team. But the Cape Epic team branding has nothing to do with that.


That's how I interpreted it as well.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

pastronef said:


> Sauser again? he retired 2 years ago...


That's why Sauser is riding in the backup team, as an active rider he would ride with Jaro 
He took part in the Grand Raid last summer, one of the most famous marathon in Switzerland (125 km, 5000 m elevation). He still finished fourth in 6h12'', 12'' minutes behind the winner and ahead of Karl Platt.
After a 20 years career, I find it unbelievable that Susi is still that motivated to ride for fun at such a high level .


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## hape72 (Jan 13, 2019)

Sergio Mantecon and Ariane Luthi Are joining Kross
https://www.kross.pl/en/news-list/sergio-mantecon-joins-kross-racing-team


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

Circlip said:


> Sauser could probably alternately retire and unretire as often as he wants for the next decade and come back reasonably competitive every time in endurance format events.


He's definitely got some genetic gifting. Add to that a long career of training and.....


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

winters.benjamin said:


> He's definitely got some genetic gifting. Add to that a long career of training and.....


Every time I run in to Tinker I think the same thing. 3% BF and acts like he is 30 years old.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

winters.benjamin said:


> He's definitely got some genetic gifting. Add to that a long career of training and.....


I think Sauser benefits from all the riding he is doing. Think he still do a fair bit of hard training also.

But Sauser probably still do 5-600h riding.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

plupp said:


> But Sauser probably still do 5-600h riding.


I would hope so, I'm doing double that and I still have a day job :lol:


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Langvad and Anna Van der Breggen are teaming up for the Cape Epic. That should be a powerhouse of a team. I'd like to see what Van der Breggen could do in an XCO race with more technical skills.

https://www.velonews.com/2019/01/news/van-der-breggen-and-langvad-team-up-for-cape-epic-mtb-race_482853


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

cal_len1 said:


> Langvad and Anna Van der Breggen are teaming up for the Cape Epic. That should be a powerhouse of a team. I'd like to see what Van der Breggen could do in an XCO race with more technical skills.
> 
> https://www.velonews.com/2019/01/news/van-der-breggen-and-langvad-team-up-for-cape-epic-mtb-race_482853


That's pretty much the unbeatable team barring any unexpected issues.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

TDLover said:


> That's pretty much the unbeatable team barring any unexpected issues.


I expect them to win by hours. AV has a partner who is, if in good form, at least as strong as her.

That would be like partnering Kulhavy with...Kulhavy.

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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> That would be like partnering Kulhavy with...Kulhavy.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Or Sagan


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> I expect them to win by hours. AV has a partner who is, if in good form, at least as strong as her.
> 
> That would be like partnering Kulhavy with...Kulhavy.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But the chances of BOTH Kulhavy's being on song for the SAME race?


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Lea Davidson is riding for sho air twenty 20 this season 


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

The Swiss, World and Olympic Champion, Nino Schurter to pair up with Andri Frischknecht for the #CapeEpic2019. Lars Forster and Gert Heyns ride in support of their title bid.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Looks like MA Fontana is moving on from Bianchi (per Instagram post) (per my Italian being any good)...


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Skarhead said:


> The Swiss [...] Champion [...]


Mathias Flückiger?


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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

it´s Feb 2nd. Marotte and Fumic will race in SouthAfrica and we have still not seen the 2019 Cannondale Factory jersey. they are wearing Shimano shoes but no official announcement came from Shimano. 
what they waiting for?


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

Man. What a race by MVDP.


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## JoelGuelph (May 20, 2010)

winters.benjamin said:


> Man. What a race by MVDP.


And Jolanda!

Did anyone hear if she had mechanical issues, or if she just couldn't recover from that amazing effort to get from 4th row to the front of the race?

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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Speaking of Cross... y'all see this for 2022? Only 45 mins south of our family farm so may be the only world level event I may ever be able to attend!

Unless... the creates a spark to build a WC XCO track around Bella Vista/Bentonville at some point in which case I'd be in heaven.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

winters.benjamin said:


> Man. What a race by MVDP.


Now we know the best training program for CX domination. All you have to do is chase after Nino Shurter on the MTB during the the spring/summer months. You CX racers don't have to worry about doing those boring base miles in the late spring and summer to get ready for fall CX races. Just race and hammer all year long.


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

zgxtreme said:


> Speaking of Cross... y'all see this for 2022? Only 45 mins south of our family farm so may be the only world level event I may ever be able to attend!
> 
> Unless... the creates a spark to build a WC XCO track around Bella Vista/Bentonville at some point in which case I'd be in heaven.


It the article it states they want to use Millsaps Mtn. for both cyclocross and XC.

From the article: 
Now, the Foundation is taking aim at cyclocross. In February 2018, the Foundation provided a grant and loan to purchase a 228-acre property in west Fayetteville called Millsaps Mountain. Part of that will be used for singletrack connections between town and Kessler Mountain Regional Park. The $3.3 million property will also be used as the venue for cyclocross worlds as well as other 'cross and mountain bike races.

"Our wish is, starting with 2022, we want to see World Cup cross-country races in Fayetteville, World Cup cyclocross in Fayetteville, national championships, and everything in between," Quirk added. "We want this to be a fixture on the scene for cyclocross and cross-country mountain biking."

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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

tgoods said:


> It the article it states they want to use Millsaps Mtn. for both cyclocross and XC.
> 
> From the article:
> Now, the Foundation is taking aim at cyclocross. In February 2018, the Foundation provided a grant and loan to purchase a 228-acre property in west Fayetteville called Millsaps Mountain. Part of that will be used for singletrack connections between town and Kessler Mountain Regional Park. The $3.3 million property will also be used as the venue for cyclocross worlds as well as other 'cross and mountain bike races.
> ...


Solid. Really wish we could leave my job and build on our lot in Bella Vista.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Now we know the best training program for CX domination. All you have to do is chase after Nino Shurter on the MTB during the the spring/summer months. You CX racers don't have to worry about doing those boring base miles in the late spring and summer to get ready for fall CX races. Just race and hammer all year long.


Can't imagine this isn't going to catch up to him. I think he's going to do one spring road race and realize it ain't going to go his way and pull the plug on road racing. He only decided to go road racing after Wout Van Aert got all the publicity anyway.


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

Rivet said:


> Can't imagine this isn't going to catch up to him. I think he's going to do one spring road race and realize it ain't going to go his way and pull the plug on road racing. He only decided to go road racing after Wout Van Aert got all the publicity anyway.


Really? I could see him going to road full time after the Olympics. There's way more money to be made on the road.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Rivet said:


> Can't imagine this isn't going to catch up to him. I think he's going to do one spring road race and realize it ain't going to go his way and pull the plug on road racing. He only decided to go road racing after Wout Van Aert got all the publicity anyway.


Care to explain why?

In his limited dabbling on the road he's had pretty amazing success.

His ride at the Dutch national championship was out of this world. And, I'd rate the Dutch or Belgian national championship as equivalent to a WorldTour race.

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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

MVDP is pretty amazing, but yeah I do wonder when the fatigue sets in? I hope he has another strong XC season this year, would love to see some great battles in the men's races. Is it almost spring yet?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I'm just gunna say, it's only Feb and I'm hanging out for the WC to start!


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

mik_git said:


> I'm just gunna say, it's only Feb and I'm hanging out for the WC to start!


 You've only got 3 more months to wait for the first WC in May 2019. The UCI wanted to give MvdP time to do a few spring classic road races before they scheduled the first WC.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Rivet said:


> Can't imagine this isn't going to catch up to him. I think he's going to do one spring road race and realize it ain't going to go his way and pull the plug on road racing. He only decided to go road racing after Wout Van Aert got all the publicity anyway.


Really?
He's got plenty of road racing history....7 years worth. (same as WvA)

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/mathieu-van-der-poel


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Stonerider said:


> You've only got 3 more months to wait for the first WC in May 2019. The UCI wanted to give MvdP time to do a few spring classic road races before they scheduled the first WC.


No necessarily. Now next year, in 2020, you will see the season start in April or March.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Rivet said:


> Can't imagine this isn't going to catch up to him. I think he's going to do one spring road race and realize it ain't going to go his way and pull the plug on road racing. He only decided to go road racing after Wout Van Aert got all the publicity anyway.


I do agree that this going to catch up with him eventually. Every rider who has competed in CX, road, and cross at a high level has eventually burned out. If you look at Vos and Prevot, they never came back to the same level after they burned out.

Now, observationally it looks like he has been very strategic with his rest periods. As long as he is prepared to miss or be terrible at a couple of world cups he could perhaps juggle all three and not burn out.
If I were try to build an ATP for him it would look something like
Feb: rest/base
March: Base/training races
April: Road race/rest.
May, June: Base (race the 2 world cups on C form)
July, August: Race
Sept: rest
Oct, Nov: Base (race CX on B form)
Dec, Jan: Race

I think an ATP like that might be sustainable if he is really disciplined with his rest. But resting is probably the hardest thing for a highly motivated athlete to do.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Resting is hard for a hardly motivated athlete too


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

For those interested:






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## weeksy950 (Jan 11, 2012)

the mayor said:


> Really?
> He's got plenty of road racing history....7 years worth. (same as WvA)
> 
> https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/mathieu-van-der-poel


Indeed. Look at the field he finished 2nd in.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/uec-road-european-championships/2018

Trentin won it who's far from slow. Stybar, Van Avermat, Rowe, Viviani, Stuyven, etc etc... Basically he beat 99% of the 1 dayers... So he's a long way from being an 'average' roadie, he's also won stages of lower end events...


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

LMN said:


> I do agree that this going to catch up with him eventually. Every rider who has competed in CX, road, and cross at a high level has eventually burned out. If you look at Vos and Prevot, they never came back to the same level after they burned out.


I believe MvdP can get away with racing at a high level all year right now because he's 24 years old. I'd say after age 26 or 27 he'll need to be a little more selective in how he burns his matches. And, his B level fitness may be better than 99% of his competitors. He truly won the lottery in the genetics category.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> I believe MvdP can get away with racing at a high level all year right now because he's 24 years old. I'd say after age 26 or 27 he'll need to be a little more selective in how he burns his matches. And, his B level fitness may be better than 99% of his competitors. He truly won the lottery in the genetics category.


Traditional view would be the opposite, actually.

Young riders (20-25) tend to have problems maintaining consistent form then middle age riders (25-32). The most consistent riders are older riders, but unfortunately with that consistency come a loss of peaks.

A younger rider typically doesn't have that big aerobic base to hold form. They have to typically take a break and rebuild their base several times in the season. They also don't haven't built the training capacity yet. Someone like MvdP probably trains 900 to 1000 hrs per year, when he is 27-32 it will be 1100-1200.


----------



## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

*2020 Olympics US MTB Qualifying Criteria Announced*

From Velo News (https://www.velonews.com/2019/02/an...ers-will-qualify-for-the-2020-olympics_483299)

USA Cycling's tiered criteria:

1. Victory at the 2020 UCI World Cup opener in Nove Mesto (May 24, 2020)
2. Victory at the 2019 UCI world championships in Mont-Sainte-Anne (September 10, 2019)
3. 2nd-8th place at Nove Mesto (only one rider per gender)
4. 2nd-8th place at Mont-Sainte-Anne (only one rider per gender)
5. Top-10 overall in the final 2019 World Cup rankings

Tier one outranks tier two, tier two outranks three, and so forth.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

MattMay said:


> From Velo News (https://www.velonews.com/2019/02/an...ers-will-qualify-for-the-2020-olympics_483299)
> 
> USA Cycling's tiered criteria:
> 
> ...


Interesting that there is no U23 criteria in there. The US has two very talented U23 riders Chris Bevans, and Hailey Batten, (I rode with Hailey last week and she is going to be a force this year) who could be in the top two of US riders.


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## octanejake (Oct 11, 2010)

Not sure if it was previously verified, but, Jenny Rissveds is supported by Specialized.
Source: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/killi...oin-form-all-new-specialized-enduro-team.html
(in the box at the bottom, not the main article)


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

octanejake said:


> Not sure if it was previously verified, but, Jenny Rissveds is supported by Specialized.
> Source: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/killi...oin-form-all-new-specialized-enduro-team.html
> (in the box at the bottom, not the main article)


Came here to say the same thing.


----------



## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

weeksy950 said:


> Indeed. Look at the field he finished 2nd in.
> 
> https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/uec-road-european-championships/2018
> 
> Trentin won it who's far from slow. Stybar, Van Avermat, Rowe, Viviani, Stuyven, etc etc... Basically he beat 99% of the 1 dayers... So he's a long way from being an 'average' roadie, he's also won stages of lower end events...


Beating those guys in August is not the same as beating them in April. Also, National and Euro champs races are notoriously weird as there is never enough guys from one squad to control anything. Also, he certainly is physically gifted I just don't think he has the head for races like Flanders or Roubaix, time will tell.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

octanejake said:


> Not sure if it was previously verified, but, Jenny Rissveds is supported by Specialized.
> Source: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/killi...oin-form-all-new-specialized-enduro-team.html
> (in the box at the bottom, not the main article)


Awesome! Thanks for sharing that link 

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

octanejake said:


> Not sure if it was previously verified, but, Jenny Rissveds is supported by Specialized.
> Source: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/killi...oin-form-all-new-specialized-enduro-team.html
> (in the box at the bottom, not the main article)


Super happy to see that! 
About Kulhavy, it says that he goes from factory to supported, any news on what races he will do? I always liked his style of racing, so much pure power!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Per Pinkbike, Marco Aurelio Fontana is going to be an e-Bike racer now.

Not kidding.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-almost-complete-guide-to-2019s-uci-xc-world-cup-teams.html


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Per Pinkbike, Marco Aurelio Fontana is going to be an e-Bike racer now.
> 
> Not kidding.
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-almost-complete-guide-to-2019s-uci-xc-world-cup-teams.html


I saw it about a week ago on Instagram and I'm still dumbfounded!!! If I remember correctly, his last good or great result was 2014 WC Bronze behind Absalon and Schurter...after that, it became tougher.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Per Pinkbike, Marco Aurelio Fontana is going to be an e-Bike racer now.
> 
> Not kidding.
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-almost-complete-guide-to-2019s-uci-xc-world-cup-teams.html


Is that like racing a moped (scooter) with knobby tires? I'd be impressed if he said he was racing motocross. But a moped with knobby tires, I'm not a fan.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

The whole concept of ebike racing is unbelievable. Posting this here because its a relevant discussion. If they think its hard to monitour the Grand tour now, they have their hands full or are turning a blind eye to ebike.

Coming form the the Car racing world, People have been programming and modifying OBD2 encrypted software for many years with undetectable results by dealer diagnostic software by VW and BMW, etc. They would have to put these bikes on a Dynanometer after the race to measure the power output. Even then, it wont tell you if they have some type of BT activated sensor that affects power output when the rider is within proximity or triggered by some specific threshold or event (think accelerometer that measures movement or tilt angle and allowed it to output even more power than if it was being tested in the stand or lab. The turbo lev was already tested to put out far above stated power. 

You are entering the world of auto racing and engineers and mechanics will find every way to skirt rules and go as fast as possible. Its just what you do and how you win. 

It will be a complete S show and probably entertaining to watch.


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

My thoughts exactly. I used to race motorcycles. I rode a mtb ebike once. It is more a motorcycle than a bicycle in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> The whole concept of ebike racing is unbelievable. Posting this here because its a relevant discussion. If they think its hard to monitour the Grand tour now, they have their hands full or are turning a blind eye to ebike.


Wholeheartedly agree. It seems to fly directly in the face of what human powered competition is based upon. Personal dedication, discipline, and heart.

It's either human powered or motor sports. Anything in the gray area seems pointless.


----------



## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Per Pinkbike, Marco Aurelio Fontana is going to be an e-Bike racer now.
> 
> Not kidding.
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-almost-complete-guide-to-2019s-uci-xc-world-cup-teams.html


Just not fast enough to be a proper racer anymore. Needs to feed the family so it's resort to this or get a real job.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

After 32 Cyclocross wins this fall/winter, MvdP decided to work on his base fitness by doing a little road racing to get ready for the XC World Cup season.

"FLYING START FOR MATHIEU: Mathieu Van der Poel got his 2019 road season off to a flying start today winning the first stage of the UCI 2.2 Tour of Antalya in Turkey..."


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Copa Catalana International BTT Biking Point. Anton Cooper wins in Spain, including Fumic, Koretsky, Sarrou, Gaze etc


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

madfella said:


> Copa Catalana International BTT Biking Point. Anton Cooper wins in Spain, including Fumic, Koretsky, Sarrou, Gaze etc


Feeling nostalgic seeing a blue SID on the front of Anton's ride in this race.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

The field was staked!!! 

Only seconds separated everybody...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

We have a UCI C1 event this weekend @ Puerto Rico, and apparently we’re going to have a stacked field on the women’s side.

Chloe Woodruff, Erin Huck, Lea Davidson are supposed to show up...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

FJSnoozer said:


> It will be a complete S show and probably entertaining to watch.


Right now eBike racing is easy to control. Just put a cap on watt/hours and your done! If they only have a battery that can produce 100w for an hour, then they have to figure how and when to use that power. The rider will still need to produce the rest, so it's still hard.

I've got no interest in eBikes, don't plan to follow the racing either, but right now it is super easy to regulate.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Sidewalk said:


> but right now it is super easy to *regulate*.


*snicker*


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> We have a UCI C1 event this weekend @ Puerto Rico, and apparently we're going to have a stacked field on the women's side.
> 
> Chloe Woodruff, Erin Huck, Lea Davidson are supposed to show up...
> 
> from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Plus Daniela Campuzano from Mexico...


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

carlostruco said:


> We have a UCI C1 event this weekend @ Puerto Rico, and apparently we're going to have a stacked field on the women's side.
> 
> Chloe Woodruff, Erin Huck, Lea Davidson are supposed to show up...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We expect Pictures and video. This post is useless without! hahaha


----------



## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

We have two UCI HC's coming up in two weeks. I expect that at least ONE of those will be stacked with people trying to get points, if not both of them.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

PinkBike running a World Cup XC fantasy league this year. Can also create Leagues within it if there's interest in an MTBR league.

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/announc...ue-build-your-dream-world-cup-team-today.html

ETA: created league under MTBR XC with a password of 2019WCXCO if you'd like to join with the team you create.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Win #2 for Cooper this weekend.

https://www.instagram.com/anton.cooper/p/BujvTPCn9sx/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=giaz5xe1zxr8


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

zgxtreme said:


> PinkBike running a World Cup XC fantasy league this year. Can also create Leagues within it if there's interest in an MTBR league.
> 
> https://m.pinkbike.com/news/announc...ue-build-your-dream-world-cup-team-today.html
> 
> ETA: created league under MTBR XC with a password of 2019WCXCO if you'd like to join with the team you create.


Cool, I have never done a fantasy league thing ever, so I'll give it a go for xc fun


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Fantasy League?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

zgxtreme said:


> Win #2 for Cooper this weekend.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/anton.cooper/p/BujvTPCn9sx/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=giaz5xe1zxr8


Has Cooper peaked too early? He doesn't seem to be one who can hold peak form all season like Nino or MvdP. By that I mean Cooper will have a great WC race then his next WC races will be mediocre.


----------



## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

Stonerider said:


> Has Cooper peaked too early? He doesn't seem to be one who can hold peak form all season like Nino or MvdP. By that I mean Cooper will have a great WC race then his next WC races will be mediocre.


I'm not sure these two wins indicate he is peaking. We'll know soon enough I suppose.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Afrobiker said:


> We expect Pictures and video. This post is useless without! hahaha


Honestly, I couldn't get a single picture!!! I was on volunteer feed zone duty for a few Bear Development Team riders, plus a bit of help to Lea Davidson, Chloe Woodruff and Brian Matter...

Elite Men:
1. Georwill Perez (PUR)
2. Ryan Standish (he took a tumble and recovered quickly)
3. Jacob Morales (Arizona Devo, PUR)

Elite Women
1. Daniela Campuzano (MEX)
2. Chloe Woodruff
3. Lea Davidson (snapped chain)
All in all, it was a good race.


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

carlostruco said:


> Honestly, I couldn't get a single picture!!! I was on volunteer feed zone duty for a few Bear Development Team riders, plus a bit of help to Lea Davidson, Chloe Woodruff and Brian Matter...
> 
> Elite Men:
> 1. Georwill Perez (PUR)
> ...


Awesome opportunity! can't fault you for not getting any pics while experiencing that!

I remember when we still had a ProXCT at MJs around these parts. Was a blast to go check out things and watch the pros fly!!


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Seems like Kulhavy will race cape epic with Sam Gaze instead of Howard Grotts this year

__
http://instagr.am/p/BuojndWl0oB/


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Skier78 said:


> Seems like Kulhavy will race cape epic with Sam Gaze instead of Howard Grotts this year


Sam is a strong rider, one of few people to have beaten Schurter. Plus he's competitive and passionate. I like his style, I'd be betting on them for the win.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Train Wreck said:


> Sam is a strong rider, one of few people to have beaten Schurter. Plus he's competitive and passionate. I like his style, I'd be betting on them for the win.


If they're both on form, no-one will be able to touch them.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

NordieBoy said:


> If they're both on form, no-one will be able to touch them.


At least in the cyprus cup Kulhavy did not look very good, but he usually is good at targeting a specific event. I think Avancini/Fumic will win it this year.

I`m hoping that Lakata/Platt can do a good race this year, mainly because I am impressed by their ability to
stay competitive despite being almost as old as me


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Skier78 said:


> At least in the cyprus cup Kulhavy did not look very good, but he usually is good at targeting a specific event. I think Avancini/Fumic will win it this year.
> 
> I`m hoping that Lakata/Platt can do a good race this year, mainly because I am impressed by their ability to
> stay competitive despite being almost as old as me


Isn't Nino racing Cape Epic? I wouldn't count him out. I believe his teammate, Junior, will be stronger than many people think and certainly stronger than Nino's last Cape Epic teammate. Nino had to drop out last year when his teammate got sick but he won the year before. It's yet to be seen how Sam Gaze recovers day after day in a stage race and Kulhavy is past his peak years.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Nino is definitely strong enough to win but I believe his teammate will need a couple of more years of racing to win. Experience seems to make a big difference in stage racing. 

That is why I believe Lakata/Platt have a chance of winning. I read that Platt has started cape epic 14 times, and won four of them...


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Skier78 said:


> Nino is definitely strong enough to win but I believe his teammate will need a couple of more years of racing to win. Experience seems to make a big difference in stage racing.


Considering who Schurters partner is (Andri Frischknecht) I'm more than confident in his experience and abilities, paired with Nino I believe they're definitely a threat to Kulhavy with or without Grotts.


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## spleeft (May 2, 2017)

Besides watching the UCI World cup events on Reb Bull, are there any other places to watch these riders / races?


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

spleeft said:


> Besides watching the UCI World cup events on Reb Bull, are there any other places to watch these riders / races?


Good question, I'm not familiar with any other sources but very grateful for redbull tv.

I suppose there could be a stream in reddit but I can't imagine anything is better than what redbull offers.

Locally I have the 'Olympic' channel and they broadcast road and cyclocross events but I don't recall seeing any MTB other than past Olympic races.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

spleeft said:


> Besides watching the UCI World cup events on Reb Bull, are there any other places to watch these riders / races?


Last year the Cape Epic was streamed online. I hope it will be this year also.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Interesting that Nino is teamed with Andri, not Lars Forster


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

I guess the two stage wins of Andri in 2017 vs no experience for Lars Forster is a huge argument in favor of Frischi Jr.


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## exodus1500 (Jun 5, 2010)

Nino and Kate should make a coed team. Lol


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

exodus1500 said:


> Nino and Kate should make a coed team. Lol


Such team would only make sense if Nino was already retired. So maybe in a few years.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

...and all of the sudden, Julien Absalon is going for e-MTB World Universes Planetary System Championship...(per Instagram)

What the hell is happening? Please somebody tell me this is a nightmare...


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Why not? He already holds just about every other championship title, can't blame him for going after another.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Train Wreck said:


> Why not? He already holds just about every other championship title, can't blame him for going after another.


Yes but he earned those and conquered the challenges to do so. You'd think adding a motor would insult the effort these guys have put in for years.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

zgxtreme said:


> Yes but he earned those and conquered the challenges to do so. You'd think adding a motor would insult the effort these guys have put in for years.


I see no shame in it. It's a level playing field, correct? Technically it is a mountain bike even though so many here refuse to admit it. I think it's cool that he didn't just retire and fall off the face of the earth.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

But I do agree the e-bike racing is a bit gimmicky, I’d like to see the race be about more than fitness


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

technically and literally it's a motorbike


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

ccm said:


> technically and literally it's a motorbike


Thanks for point that out captain...


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Last minute change - still going to be Nino / Forster

https://scott-sram.com/schurter-forster-aiming-high-at-cape-epic/


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

That's a bummer for Andri, I like seeing the 2x on Nino's bike, looking forward to when that trend picks back up again.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Train Wreck said:


> That's a bummer for Andri, I like seeing the 2x on Nino's bike, looking forward to when that trend picks back up again.


That's very clearly a 1x12 Eagle AXS drivetrain...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Disregard


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> That's very clearly a 1x12 Eagle AXS drivetrain...


I must be loosing my mind...or vision


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

Stonerider said:


> Last year the Cape Epic was streamed online. I hope it will be this year also.


Yes, me too. It's a great event.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Train Wreck said:


> I see no shame in it. It's a level playing field, correct? Technically it is a mountain bike even though so many here refuse to admit it. I think it's cool that he didn't just retire and fall off the face of the earth.


According to the dictionary you are wrong. Motor: a machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for some other device with moving parts.

I'm pretty sure the e-bike is powered by an electrical "motor" so it is a motorbike.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Stonerider said:


> According to the dictionary you are wrong. Motor: a machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for some other device with moving parts.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the e-bike is powered by an electrical "motor" so it is a motorbike.


I think he's referring to the fact that he'd be racing against other people on motorized vehicles, too...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Le Duke said:


> I think he's referring to the fact that he'd be racing against other people on motorized vehicles, too...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, seeing the same thing. IMO, E-Bike racing could be fun as long as the course design reflects the vehicle. XC down a downhill course wouldn't be great, DH around an XC course wouldn't be great, etc.

It definitely will change the landscape of riders that perform well, probably placing an even larger premium on riders who can handle a bike well.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

You know folks, if you don't like eBike racing, you can just go hog wild and not watch it, right? I know it's a crazy idea, but you can do it!


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Stonerider said:


> According to the dictionary you are wrong..


Why are you jumping on my back? When did I ever say it doesn't have a motor? Its a mountain bike with a motor, I understand that. I'm not denying that its a mountain bike that also has a motor. Are we clear on this yet?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Sidewalk said:


> You know folks, if you don't like eBike racing, you can just go hog wild and not watch it, right? I know it's a crazy idea, but you can do it!


If we are being honest, everyone is a little E-curious.

How about a 30 degree pitch climb. Hell, let's have them ride up the ski jump ramp each lap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

FJSnoozer said:


> If we are being honest, everyone is a little E-curious.
> 
> How about a 30 degree pitch climb. Hell, let's have them ride up the ski jump ramp each lap.


I think anything that sucks up extra amp hours is a good thing. If the battery can't last the length of the race, then it still relies on the rider, just faster. Use up all that power going up the ski jump, then still have more climbs too!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Instead of 400w, you're going to have 650-700w at your disposal.
You're going to be pedalling just as hard because - race.
Heavier bike, limited Wh.

If I couldn't climb anymore or started wearing plaid, I might be tempted to get one.

I'm really interested in what a full-on XC e-bike will look like in a years time.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Absa Cape Epic is being streamed live on YouTube now. The women are currently racing the Prologue.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Fairly predictable winners of the 2 Prologues. Can they hold it for the next week?


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

I hope Annika and Anna can! I'm a fan of the Specialized Factory Team. 

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Renzo7 said:


> I hope Annika and Anna can! I'm a fan of the Specialized Factory Team.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


Gaze and Kulhavy lost a bit of time today, but I don't think they'll be too worried.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

Stonerider said:


> Absa Cape Epic is being streamed live on YouTube now. The women are currently racing the Prologue.


Thanks. I was able to catch today's stage thanks to your post.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

madfella said:


> Gaze and Kulhavy lost a bit of time today, but I don't think they'll be too worried.


Agreed! It's not a big time difference when there are still so many stages to go 

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Nino, Lars, Sam, Jaro all together at the front.
Although Nino has just had a minor mechanical...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

OTB for Sam, loose cleat for Jaro.
1min to make up...


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

Nino and Lars are great team and awesome stage win today

And really stupid comments from Avancini for Nino...


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## Don1c (Jan 11, 2015)

At the final of the Prologue, Avancini already threw some shade on Nino calling him “individualist” out of the blue...


Enviado do meu iPhone usando o Tapatalk


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

After stage 1 comment from Avancini : “To be honest, it would be nice to have some microphones on the bikes. And then people could see who is the real Nino. I’m going to try to show it little by little,”
“I mean, he just gives **** to every rider, in the peloton you know. Nobody knows this side of him and I really hate that. I’m a guy who has worked quite hard to get on this level, to get on this point of a professional career, and he’s giving **** to every rider that scares him or is just around him. He likes to be the big boss and he’s the best rider. But as I said, on this race he’s not the captain of the boat and I’m not scared of him. It’s a long week and I hope we are going to have a nice fight in the next few days. And little by little he’s going to show his face, as he does.”

Nino after stage 1 : “We don’t take someone with us, especially if they are second in the overall, they have also to work. If they think they can just ride with us then they have to search another team for that,”


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

https://marathonmtb.com/2019/03/18/avancini-on-nino-schurter/


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Avancini being thin skinned?

I mean, both teams are competing probably for 1st and 2nd place in a mountain bike race, not sure how you can expect cooperation between them.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Kate Courtney won at Bonelli Saturday. I was sorta surprised to see so few international people, I figured more were going to be out there to get early season points in the perfect weather.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Sidewalk said:


> Kate Courtney won at Bonelli Saturday. I was sorta surprised to see so few international people, I figured more were going to be out there to get early season points in the perfect weather.


Did Kate win easily or was she forced to dig deep to win?


----------



## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Skarhead said:


> Nino and Lars are great team and awesome stage win today
> 
> And really stupid comments from Avancini for Nino...


He might be Swiss, but that does no mean he has to be neutral. It's called the heat of the battle for a reason.

I have seen friends get really steamed at each other over a week night race. Good guys, not idiots, it just happens.

Just part of racing.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> Did Kate win easily or was she forced to dig deep to win?


I didn't see the race first hand. I was getting my prep done and doing my warmup during the womens race.


----------



## NATO5 (Dec 28, 2016)

Stonerider said:


> Did Kate win easily or was she forced to dig deep to win?


Results have her alone in 1st at the end of the first lap by 13 seconds. And ended up beating Erin Huck by about 40 seconds by the end.


----------



## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

From Avancini's Instagram.

"Another good stage for me and @manuelfumic .
We finished 2nd behind the fast Scott duo.
Mostly of the stage was really smooth apart from one racing episode I had with Nino.
From my point of view a race is raced only with legs when out there.
For him, using words as a “mental game” during the race is part of it.
We disagree on this point, which is alright.

Most important, we BOTH agree that I over reacted on my first interview and was too aggressive with my choice of words, even if I don’t like the way he behaves at times during the race.
Even if I don’t approve few things he does (and he also doesn’t like few things I do), I just passed by to talk to him and his team, clear the situation, apologize to him and crack on with the race.
I respect him as The Best Ever of this sport and I hope he respects me as a guy that tries really hard to race at this level."

They've already cleared the air... sorta.

Kabush would have just sprayed him with champagne.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Has Avancini raced any road?


----------



## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

> From my point of view a race is raced only with legs when out there.
> For him, using words as a "mental game" during the race is part of it.


Well maybe he should pick different sport then. My background is cross country skiing, when, especially in my days, most of races were run with individual starts, so you had racer starting every 30sec. Yet we had several mass starts (from relays to few "normal" races), and even though we were good friends with pretty much everyone on start, it got heated up during races. It's normal when it comes to racing, and when you have races lasting several hours, for a whole week, it's actually pretty stupid to expect you won't try everything, including talking crap, to get your opponent lose the race. And if someone tells me to fu**ck off during race, I won't take this seriously and cry because of this. I would probably say something back, and if I could breath, I would maybe even yell back, but after crossing finish line that's forgotten, at least it was for me, when I was still racing, not that I would run to first journalist willing to listen my crying how someone told me to fu** off. Grow up, or go back home to mom. Sorry to say that.


----------



## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

NordieBoy said:


> Has Avancini raced any road?


Probably he wouldn't last long enough before bursting to cry not even for race to start


----------



## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Very lame from Avancini bitching about it like that


----------



## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Raikzz said:


> Very lame from Avancini bitching about it like that


Not lame. International sport = Cultural differences. 
Avancini's entitled to his opinion and I'm glad he voiced it. Makes it more interesting to us fans when a competitor actually has the courage to voice it. Then we get an insight as to actually what is going on in the race.


----------



## insidertrading (Mar 12, 2018)

madfella said:


> Not lame. International sport = Cultural differences.
> Avancini's entitled to his opinion and I'm glad he voiced it. Makes it more interesting to us fans when a competitor actually has the courage to voice it. Then we get an insight as to actually what is going on in the race.


Hopefully Avancini doesn't get crushed by the media and opinions from half his country like Sam Gaze did after the Commonwealth games XC race last year.


----------



## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

Gaze, a known hot head, at the Commonwelath games behaved way worse than Avancini


----------



## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Whatever mental game Nino was playing he clearly won. Avancini ended up showing weakness on first stage. Only one that can save him is Fumic.


----------



## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Scott team seems unbeatable at the moment


----------



## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

Gaze suffered badly today from his crash yesterday. Kulhavy and him limped in at 37th almost a half hour after the leaders. Rough going for the pair


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

dwperry said:


> Gaze suffered badly today from his crash yesterday. Kulhavy and him limped in at 37th almost a half hour after the leaders. Rough going for the pair


That's too bad. I was hoping some team would rise to the occasion and provide Nino's team with a real battle. It would certainly make it more interesting.

It's the same way on the women's side, Annika and Anna are killing the competition.


----------



## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Lakata/Platt lost a lot of time today due to a puncture they could not seal with plugs. they ended up taking a wheel from one of the other bulls teams. Don't they carry spare tubes anymore? Seems like a small extra weight to be able to keep going...


----------



## insidertrading (Mar 12, 2018)

dwperry said:


> Gaze suffered badly today from his crash yesterday. Kulhavy and him limped in at 37th almost a half hour after the leaders. Rough going for the pair


Hospital has diagnosed delayed concussion for Sam - was a big knock to the head. He wants to continue, but has been told he has to stop riding. Gutting for him and the team, especially now he knows the "I told you so's" heading his way. Another knock to the head at this stage could end the year for him - so the spring Europe races will have to be his next target after recovery


----------



## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

Raikzz said:


> Very lame from Avancini bitching about it like that


He knows he cannot beat Nino. He is looking for excuses. He is a strong rider, so instead of whining he should put that energy towards the race. Thinking about it is probably getting him upset, distracted and out of his game.


----------



## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

kevbikemad said:


> Kabush would have just sprayed him with champagne.


I saw what you did there. Nice touch, great insider (sorta) reference. Love it.


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

j102 said:


> He knows he cannot beat Nino. He is looking for excuses. He is a strong rider, so instead of whining he should put that energy towards the race. Thinking about it is probably getting him upset, distracted and out of his game.


I would say that Fumic is the weak link after watching some of the Cape Epic. Avancini has to ride looking over his shoulder to make sure he doesn't drop Fumic. That probably was Avancini's biggest frustration and instead of saying anything to Fumic he lashed out at Nino. Avancini is undoubtably as strong as Lars Forster but when racing as a team you're only as fast as the slowest member of that team.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Skier78 said:


> Lakata/Platt lost a lot of time today due to a puncture they could not seal with plugs. they ended up taking a wheel from one of the other bulls teams. Don't they carry spare tubes anymore? Seems like a small extra weight to be able to keep going...


And they're 2 of the most experienced marathon guys out there.


----------



## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

insidertrading said:


> Hospital has diagnosed delayed concussion for Sam - was a big knock to the head. He wants to continue, but has been told he has to stop riding. Gutting for him and the team, especially now he knows the "I told you so's" heading his way. Another knock to the head at this stage could end the year for him - so the spring Europe races will have to be his next target after recovery


That's terrible news! I hope Sam can recover completely and quickly.

Thanks for the information 

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## insidertrading (Mar 12, 2018)

always another year - looking forward to the battle between scott and cannondale today


----------



## insidertrading (Mar 12, 2018)

Renzo7 said:


> That's terrible news! I hope Sam can recover completely and quickly.
> 
> Thanks for the information
> 
> Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


lives to fight another day


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Flat for Forster , couldn't get the tyre off the rim and rode on wheel until backup team catched up and swapped the wheels. Race got interesting, although they lost 9min, don't believe they will catch up 5min with just riding


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Sam Gaze shattered his helmet in the crash...

__
http://instagr.am/p/BvN-NHMheEL/


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> Sam Gaze shattered his helmet in the crash...
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BvN-NHMheEL/


If only he'd borrowed one of those new fangled helmets from Trek: https://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/bontrager-wavecel-helmet-tech-53712/


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> Flat for Forster , couldn't get the tyre off the rim and rode on wheel until backup team catched up and swapped the wheels. Race got interesting, although they lost 9min, don't believe they will catch up 5min with just riding


Interesting that he couldn't get the tire off. I believe the Scott guys are running tire inserts in their rear wheels. Do they make it hard to remove a tire?


----------



## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

PlanB said:


> Interesting that he couldn't get the tire off. I believe the Scott guys are running tire inserts in their rear wheels. Do they make it hard to remove a tire?


I have no personal experience with them, but according to reviews, Cush Core can be extremely hard to install and remove. Others, like Huck Norris, are easier.

If they weren't carrying tire levers, I imagine Cush Core-equipped tires would be super hard to remove, assuming that's what they are using.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Nino posted a video on his Instagram where they are wrestling a pepis tire noodle. It can be quite difficult without levers just due to the lack of space.

Seems they got a tire or wheel from another team, I did not know that was allowed.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Skier78 said:


> Nino posted a video on his Instagram where they are wrestling a pepis tire noodle. It can be quite difficult without levers just due to the lack of space.
> 
> Seems they got a tire or wheel from another team, I did not know that was allowed.


That other team is a backup team for the Scott Sram main team, from what I understand.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Renzo7 said:


> That other team is a backup team for the Scott Sram main team, from what I understand.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


Then it makes more sense, I did not realize that the dsv team was also riding for Scott


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

It's like in the old days of the Dakar.
Support from fellow competitors is no problem, so they entered the support trucks as part of the race.

No outside support.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Do you guys think that noodles are a fad? After watching Lars riding so poorly after the flat I wonder if they are worth to have them at all.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

TDLover said:


> Do you guys think that noodles are a fad? After watching Lars riding so poorly after the flat I wonder if they are worth to have them at all.


I think that they're interesting because of the rim protection factor, but not enough for me to buy one at this time.

Tubeless and proper pressure for each trail have worked perfectly for me this far.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

Really interested to see how the XCO season plays out...
Van Der Poel is back
Avancini looks to be in awesome form at Cape Epic (held back significantly by Fumic)
Avancini v. Nino is already heating up

On the women's side....
WIDE open.... so many women have a chance
Rissveds comeback?
Does Batty finally win or was last year's success her one shot?
Jolanda and Batty on the same team
Does Annika once again start hot then fizzle?
Is Kate really that great?

so many story lines to follow!


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

khardrunner14 said:


> Really interested to see how the XCO season plays out...
> Van Der Poel is back
> Avancini looks to be in awesome form at Cape Epic (held back significantly by Fumic)
> Avancini v. Nino is already heating up
> ...


I agree. It should be an interesting season.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Agreed! 2019 looks very promising at this time.

I hope Emily Batty will have at least one win. She did so well last year, and I love her personality.

Does anyone know what bikes are being ridden by the Silverback Fairtree team at the Cape Epic? They look sort of like the Specialized Enduro, but that's not the right tool for this race.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

Renzo7 said:


> Agreed! 2019 looks very promising at this time.
> 
> I hope Emily Batty will have at least one win. She did so well last year, and I love her personality.
> 
> ...


Don't know for certain, but given the team name and her history on OMX, it's probably this one: 
OMX Pro Bike Team | THE BIKES


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

winters.benjamin said:


> Don't know for certain, but given the team name and her history on OMX, it's probably this one:
> OMX Pro Bike Team | THE BIKES


Thanks. It doesn't look like that's the bike.

The frame I'm looking for has a brace going from the toptube to the downtube, similar to the Specialized Enduro's X-wing.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## brex17 (Jan 31, 2019)

Silverback Bikes rocket-out their all-new Stratos | SPARK BIKE


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

After Stage 4 the Scott team is in second place with a 1 minute, 13 seconds behind the leaders.
I have not seen Stage 4 yet, but it seems they gained 5 minutes today.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

j102 said:


> After Stage 4 the Scott team is in second place with a 1 minute, 13 seconds behind the leaders.
> I have not seen Stage 4 yet, but it seems they gained 5 minutes today.


No, they only gained 2 minutes, they weren't 6 minutes behind that was how much they ended up behind on stage 3 not overall.

Things got interesting, suddenly 1 min is doable for the remaining stages. It will be a close battle though.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

brex17 said:


> Silverback Bikes rocket-out their all-new Stratos | SPARK BIKE


That's it!

I really like the look of that bike. Thanks, Brex17!

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Renzo7 said:


> Agreed! 2019 looks very promising at this time.
> 
> I hope Emily Batty will have at least one win. She did so well last year, and I love her personality.


Very stoked for this season as well!

Always been a Trek guy and fan of TFR so obviously I'd like to see Emily get her 1st win. She fought hard last year and would like to see her achieve that next step.

ALSO curious to see if TFR does any "testing" throughout the WC on any new XC bikes if the thread over in the Trek sub forum is legit info.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

TDLover said:


> No, they only gained 2 minutes, they weren't 6 minutes behind that was how much they ended up behind on stage 3 not overall.
> 
> Things got interesting, suddenly 1 min is doable for the remaining stages. It will be a close battle though.


You are right, my bad.
Tomorrow will be interesting for sure.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Mdvp seemed crazy strong riding CX this year, and him not riding CX after World champs means he probably will be in a good shape for XCO  If somebody is going to constantly battle Nino, it will be MDVP , others will shine here and there, but doesn't see nobody else battling for overall.


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

zgxtreme said:


> Very stoked for this season as well!
> 
> Always been a Trek guy and fan of TFR so obviously I'd like to see Emily get her 1st win. She fought hard last year and would like to see her achieve that next step.
> 
> ALSO curious to see if TFR does any "testing" throughout the WC on any new XC bikes if the thread over in the Trek sub forum is legit info.


Agreed on that testing part as well. I am pumped to see if the Supercaliber is legit and what they do with a Top Fuel update. Would love a Top Fuel that is 120/120 and a bit slacker. If the Supercaliber is real then there is room for that Top Fuel.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Raikzz said:


> Mdvp seemed crazy strong riding CX this year, and him not riding CX after World champs means he probably will be in a good shape for XCO  If somebody is going to constantly battle Nino, it will be MDVP , others will shine here and there, but doesn't see nobody else battling for overall.


How badly hurt was he in the crash yesterday?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

kevbikemad said:


> How badly hurt was he in the crash yesterday?


He was out training for RVV yesterday, FWIW.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

khardrunner14 said:


> Agreed on that testing part as well. I am pumped to see if the Supercaliber is legit and what they do with a Top Fuel update. Would love a Top Fuel that is 120/120 and a bit slacker. If the Supercaliber is real then there is room for that Top Fuel.


A great update would be a bike where the carbon could stay in one piece. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

FJSnoozer said:


> A great update would be a bike where the carbon could stay in one piece.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What do you mean by this, have you been unfortunate with carbon?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

TDLover said:


> What do you mean by this, have you been unfortunate with carbon?


Love my Trek, but I have suffered from multiple layup failures in the first year of ownership. 2 wheels, one seat stay and now one chainstay on my second frame.

I was warned, by a local Pro, whose wife (also open/pro rider) has gone through the same issues.

I love the bike though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

Raikzz said:


> If somebody is going to constantly battle Nino, it will be MDVP , others will shine here and there, but doesn't see nobody else battling for overall.


I don't recall MVDP putting Nino under any serious threat last year on the full course. Maybe short track. I'm excited to see what Kerschbaumer will bring.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

winters.benjamin said:


> I don't recall MVDP putting Nino under any serious threat last year on the full course. Maybe short track. I'm excited to see what Kerschbaumer will bring.


MvdP spreads himself too thin by racing 12 months out of the year. He will never be the best XCO racer that he could be because he's also concentrating on CX and Road Racing. Whereas Nino concentrates on being ready for the XCO World Cups year round.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

TDLover said:


> Things got interesting, suddenly 1 min is doable for the remaining stages. It will be a close battle though.


Not that interesting anymore, at least based on current result which looks pretty weird for me... all time gaps are exactly on 1min. But based on splits (last one on km 88.5) Schuter and Forster had about 6:20 advantage on Fumic/Avancini, so in finish they should be in lead for some 5min.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

primoz said:


> Not that interesting anymore, at least based on current result which looks pretty weird for me... all time gaps are exactly on 1min. But based on splits (last one on km 88.5) Schuter and Forster had about 6:20 advantage on Fumic/Avancini, so in finish they should be in lead for some 5min.


Not sure what you are implying, but at first hydration point jersey leaders were already 3 minutes behind race leaders.

It still not over though, with 5 minutes they definitely have the upper hand, but any issue comes up and it might not be enough to cover it.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

FJSnoozer said:


> Love my Trek, but I have suffered from multiple layup failures in the first year of ownership. 2 wheels, one seat stay and now one chainstay on my second frame.
> 
> I was warned, by a local Pro, whose wife (also open/pro rider) has gone through the same issues.
> 
> ...


Yikes, that seems like poor poor manufacturing quality.

Was that on a top fuel?

I personally don't trust carbon wheels, carbon bars or carbon stems, but frames can be strong as hell. However, it seems everyone has dropped their carbon quality, around 10-15 years ago carbon frames were very strong and extremely durable. Now, failures are not uncommon even in premium brands.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

TDLover said:


> Yikes, that seems like poor poor manufacturing quality.
> 
> Was that on a top fuel?
> 
> I personally don't trust carbon wheels, carbon bars or carbon stems, but frames can be strong as hell. However, it seems everyone has dropped their carbon quality, around 10-15 years ago carbon frames were very strong and extremely durable. Now, failures are not uncommon even in premium brands.


First off my Giant advanced frame was unbelievably reliable. Also my Carbon Light bike have been put through the ringer and are fantastic.

My last 13 months:

First wheel cracked at the spoke (May have been factory over tension). Discovered by my builder when they laced in an i9 hub to replace the bontrager garbage hub.

Replacement rim had a bubble on the lip that caved in and sliced a tire. Seems to be holding up despite this defect. I thought about putting epoxy to fill the slight imperfection but haven't yet.

Top fuel 9.8 cracked on seat tube behind size sticker when almost new. Took me months to find the source of the noise. It was non impact related.

They gave me a Warranty 9.9 frame which has a carbon Chainstay and super thin clear paint. (Saved 250 grams) Chainstay had a non impact related failure from poor layup. They are refusing warranty and I had to pay 420+ shipping and tax and install for a new Chainstay that Doesn't even match my frame because they couldn't get that color for 4 months!

My Chainstay is now wrapped in 20 grams of bar tape to protect it from any possible rock strike just in case.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

khardrunner14 said:


> Agreed on that testing part as well. I am pumped to see if the Supercaliber is legit and what they do with a Top Fuel update. Would love a Top Fuel that is 120/120 and a bit slacker. If the Supercaliber is real then there is room for that Top Fuel.


 called it, that thread got axed. So that's good news that the SuperCal is truly in the pipeline. Was mentioned that Jolanda had posted on Instagram she was on a #secretmission doing some testing.

Saw this today from her and IFHT with the mountain bike conveniently obscured.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Another win for Kate yesterday in SoCal. Her last lap was her fastest with Erin Huck 15 seconds behind her, so I am guessing she had to work for it. Super fast and flowing course.


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

Stonerider said:


> MvdP spreads himself too thin by racing 12 months out of the year. He will never be the best XCO racer that he could be because he's also concentrating on CX and Road Racing. Whereas Nino concentrates on being ready for the XCO World Cups year round.


He does, but let's just appreciate it, as it is truly special.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

Cross Country, Cyclocross or Road, men or women, they are all fun to watch. 
Next race?


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

zgxtreme said:


> called it, that thread got axed. So that's good news that the SuperCal is truly in the pipeline. Was mentioned that Jolanda had posted on Instagram she was on a #secretmission doing some testing.
> 
> Saw this today from her and IFHT with the mountain bike conveniently obscured.


Rode with her today in NC. How much would someone pay for a picture of the bike she was on?haha


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> Rode with her today in NC. How much would someone pay for a picture of the bike she was on?haha


Awesome! What was it like, riding with her?

I'm a huge fan of Jolanda, especially because of her technical skills. She shreds hard!

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Jolanda Neff? In NC?

Odd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> Jolanda Neff? In NC?
> 
> Odd.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She lives here lol. So it's not odd. Her boyfriend is Luca Shaw. She has been here a lot this off season. She just came here from a road race in Europe this past weekend.


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

Renzo7 said:


> Awesome! What was it like, riding with her?
> 
> I'm a huge fan of Jolanda, especially because of her technical skills. She shreds hard!
> 
> Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


It was like riding a bike. She is a normal person, riding her bike. I was just messing around about the photo of her bike lol. It was a basic Trek fancy road bike.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> She lives here lol. So it's not odd. Her boyfriend is Luca Shaw. She has been here a lot this off season. She just came here from a road race in Europe this past weekend.


But weren't you in Ohio?


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

Train Wreck said:


> But weren't you in Ohio?


Only in your mind. Unless Etowah is in Ohio.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> Only in your mind. Unless Etowah is in Ohio.


Come on KK, you don't have to lie to kick it


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I thought lane was in Arizona


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

Sidewalk said:


> I thought lane was in Arizona


Lane is not a person but a metaphysical conundrum. He is everywhere and nowhere at the same time.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

euro-trash said:


> Lane is not a person but a metaphysical conundrum. He is everywhere and nowhere at the same time.


I know he likes to eat pizza off the floorboard of his car, that could have something to do with all this...


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

Train Wreck said:


> I know he likes to eat pizza off the floorboard of his car, that could have something to do with all this...


You guys are clearly confused who I am. My name is Lane Myers, and i dont eat pizza, live in Arizona during the summer, or Ohio in the winter. I live in Brevard. So does Luca Shaw and Jolanda Neff, big deal. I was mostly trying to make a joke about them wanting to see the bike Jolanda was on then showing them a picture of her on her road bike. Imagine this. A world cup dh racer, a world cup xc racer, a top US pro DH racer, the NUE champion, and top US pros all live in Brevard and ride bikes together lol. I know its hard to imagine normal people being normal people.

Your comment about the pizza lets me know you have absolutely no clue who i am. My van doesnt even have floorboards. I cut them out with a grinder cause they were rusted through and screwed some sheetmetal down lol.

Im in the process of starting a youtube channel and all that. Then you can see things for what they are not what you imagine.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Wake me when this thread is actually about WC XC.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

I can't wait for this youtube channel...


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> It was like riding a bike. She is a normal person, riding her bike. I was just messing around about the photo of her bike lol. It was a basic Trek fancy road bike.


And you were on a fatbike dropping her on every climb right? We all know the routine.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

MessagefromTate said:


> I can't wait for this youtube channel...


Just watch Jackass, basically the same thing.
Or Beavis n Butthead, or Dumb n Dumber....


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> First off my Giant advanced frame was unbelievably reliable. Also my Carbon Light bike have been put through the ringer and are fantastic.
> 
> My last 13 months:
> 
> ...


I'm just hoping my next Top Fuel frame failure is after the new bike launches.


----------



## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> Jolanda Neff? In NC?
> 
> Odd.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Oh Baby (Jun 11, 2008)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> You guys are clearly confused who I am. My name is Lane Myers, and i dont eat pizza, live in Arizona during the summer, or Ohio in the winter. I live in Brevard. So does Luca Shaw and Jolanda Neff, big deal. I was mostly trying to make a joke about them wanting to see the bike Jolanda was on then showing them a picture of her on her road bike. Imagine this. A world cup dh racer, a world cup xc racer, a top US pro DH racer, the NUE champion, and top US pros all live in Brevard and ride bikes together lol. I know its hard to imagine normal people being normal people.
> 
> Your comment about the pizza lets me know you have absolutely no clue who i am. My van doesnt even have floorboards. I cut them out with a grinder cause they were rusted through and screwed some sheetmetal down lol.
> 
> Im in the process of starting a youtube channel and all that. Then you can see things for what they are not what you imagine.


THE Lane Meyers that skied down k12 on one ski?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088794/


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

Sorry I’m newer to this forum, can someone please open a separate thread and explain the history and phenomenon that is “LaneDetroitCity”? Being a local from the Detroit suburbs myself, I hate to see the good reputation and name of Detroit being sullied.


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

MattMay said:


>


Damn, imagine that.


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

MI-XC said:


> Sorry I'm newer to this forum, can someone please open a separate thread and explain the history and phenomenon that is "LaneDetroitCity"? Being a local from the Detroit suburbs myself, I hate to see the good reputation and name of Detroit being sullied.


Suburbs? You know what we call the people from the suburbs who claim to be from Detroit right?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

I see no USA Cycling results for Lane Meyers.

You coming to Marathon Nationals?


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

MI-XC said:


> Sorry I'm newer to this forum, can someone please open a separate thread and explain the history and phenomenon that is "LaneDetroitCity"? Being a local from the Detroit suburbs myself, I hate to see the good reputation and name of Detroit being sullied.


He's been banned from here numerous times, that pretty much sums him up. Oh and he dropped Catherine Pendrel at a trail named Pontiac Lake in metro Detroit. That was one claim I remember.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> Suburbs? You know what we call the people from the suburbs who claim to be from Detroit right?


off topic but i've got to know: what do they call them? jive turkeys, rat bastards, what?


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

joeduda said:


> off topic but i've got to know: what do they call them? jive turkeys, rat bastards, what?


Lucky, I think. They made it out.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

winters.benjamin said:


> Lucky, I think. They made it out.


:yesnod:


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

MessagefromTate said:


> He's been banned from here numerous times, that pretty much sums him up. Oh and he dropped Catherine Pendrel at a trail named Pontiac Lake in metro Detroit. That was one claim I remember.


Please show a multiple world champion more respect.


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

FJSnoozer said:


> I see no USA Cycling results for Lane Meyers.
> 
> You coming to Marathon Nationals?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Myers. Definitely.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Jolanda Neff doing a little downhill race: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/jolanda-neff-wins-downhill-south-east-round-2-1.html


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

...and The Wonder Kid just won a WorldTour Cobbled Classic (Dwars door Vlaanderen)


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## exodus1500 (Jun 5, 2010)

WTF....

"Maxime Marotte, mountain biker of the Cannondale Factory Racing, has shared a photo in his social networks after an unpleasant event that he lived last April 2nd.

While he was training on the road, a car approached him and one of the people inside began to shoot Marotte .

Fortunately, we are talking about a compressed air gun and not a gun. The result is several wounds on the back and one on the elbow , like the one that can be seen in the photo shared by the cyclist himself.

A detestable fact and that should have been a good scare to Marotte, who would have enough to worry that no car was off track. Although, following this, Marotte "jokes" in his tweet saying that at least respected the safety distance ."


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Its pretty disturbing the things that people do, I hope he grabbed a license plate number.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> ...and The Wonder Kid just won a WorldTour Cobbled Classic (Dwars door Vlaanderen)


And what a win. He made seasoned pro's look like second tier riders.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> And what a win. He made seasoned pro's look like second tier riders.


He ws the one who forced the selection and put on the monster pulls...and still had the power for the sprint!!! Imagine if he were only a few kilos lighter for the WC races...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I do this on my MTB but I've never, ever considered doing it on my road bike, let alone a group ride, much less a (almost WT) race:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113388632306540552


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Anyone know if there is going to be any streaming of the Pan American Championships tomorrow?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

kevbikemad said:


> Anyone know if there is going to be any streaming of the Pan American Championships tomorrow?


There's a Facebook page doing live feeds. It's called Play Sports Mexico.

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## pastronef (Aug 20, 2018)

any news of Jenny Rissveds? she is a new Specialized supported athlete from this year


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

oh Van der Poel, don't go waving for the team car when your in the middle of trying to save it!


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

mik_git said:


> oh Van der Poel, don't go waving for the team car when your in the middle of trying to save it!


Obviously not sure, but seemed to me he had a broken handlebar or stem and was doing that for balance. He would have otherwise already stopped.

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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

EF! Makes me happy to see those guys win every once in a while.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Anton Cooper just took the Continental Championships XCO a few minutes ago. Not the strongest field, nonetheless this man is one of only a handful who seem to have a chance of defeating el Nino.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Anyone know if Sea Otter is streaming live or delayed? thanks


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

madfella said:


> Anton Cooper just took the Continental Championships XCO a few minutes ago. Not the strongest field, nonetheless this man is one of only a handful who seem to have a chance of defeating el Nino.


Really hoping to see him achieve that next level performance this year. He seems like a hard worker and fighter with a really good attitude.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

madfella said:


> Anton Cooper just took the Continental Championships XCO a few minutes ago. Not the strongest field, nonetheless this man is one of only a handful who seem to have a chance of defeating el Nino.


Oceania Championships XCO.


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## kylepeveto (Apr 25, 2006)

Check out the CXHAIRS YouTube channel. He has been shooting video of the U.S. Cup races and putting together video summaries. And he said on Twitter that he would be at Sea Otter, too, but there would be no live streaming.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

2019 Sea Otter Results; Pro Women


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The power files I see out of the Sea Otter race are absolutely insane. The normalized power for one of the top finishers in the mens race was 400!!! And that is for a 70kg rider.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

2019 Sea Otter Results; Pro Men


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Sick to see Geoff Kabush still doing top 10 rides. Sundays race should be a good one.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

LMN said:


> The power files I see out of the Sea Otter race are absolutely insane. The normalized power for one of the top finishers in the mens race was 400!!! And that is for a 70kg rider.


Truly unreal. And these guys are not even the worlds best.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Train Wreck said:


> Sick to see Geoff Kabush still doing top 10 rides. Sundays race should be a good one.


Impressive indeed. Hope springs eternal for all the 40+ ers


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Blevins is the real deal. I know it seems like a long shot, but I wouldn't bee too surprised to see him medal if he gets to Tokyo.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

zgxtreme said:


> 2019 Sea Otter Results; Pro Women


Good to see Rose Grant back at it....and kudos to Catharine for a top-5! Probably too early to be speculating about WC XCO form, but am a little surprised that Batty is so far down. Anyone know if she had a mechanical?


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## stewiefied (Jul 3, 2017)

Batty mentioned being sick in a recent IG post/story.

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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

LMN... reading the Trek 2020 MY thread and the speculation around the new XC bike... on the WC circuit is there a place for a modernized “soft tail” given how the courses are designed nowadays?

I know Trek has got to be investing more into the XC side after picking up Neff and Batty knocking at the door, but didn’t see a soft tail coming given the increasing technicality.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

zgxtreme said:


> LMN... reading the Trek 2020 MY thread and the speculation around the new XC bike... on the WC circuit is there a place for a modernized "soft tail" given how the courses are designed nowadays?
> 
> I know Trek has got to be investing more into the XC side after picking up Neff and Batty knocking at the door, but didn't see a soft tail coming given the increasing technicality.


I don't see a need for a softtail. If you look at the Trek Pro-caliber the frame is 1500 grams!!! An Oiz or a Spark is 1800 grams.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

LMN said:


> I don't see a need for a softtail. If you look at the Trek Pro-caliber the frame is 1500 grams!!! An Oiz or a Spark is 1800 grams.


The Procaliber frame weight combined with the price points being $500 within a Top Fuel for every spec level is a tough sell. Hope Trek resolves the hardtail issue as well as their revised full squish bikes.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

LMN said:


> I don't see a need for a softtail. If you look at the Trek Pro-caliber the frame is 1500 grams!!! An Oiz or a Spark is 1800 grams.


Thanks, I was thinking the same but was curious maybe I was missing something.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

BMC has a softtail, but I would assume most of the sponsored riders choose the new BMC fully this year.

The softtail rides really nice though (my brother rides one), rooty tracks are almost as fun as on a full suspension.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

euro-trash said:


> Obviously not sure, but seemed to me he had a broken handlebar or stem and was doing that for balance. He would have otherwise already stopped.


Just watched Flanders with a week delay. What a race. His wheel broke when bunny hopping over road furniture and fully collapsed when he raised his arm after.

What is interesting is that even with this full spring classics winning potential, he is still not backing off 2020 XCO Olympics as goal, and won't race road after Amstel Gold next week, again going full XC season.

He did tell Sporza that the atmosphere on the Kwaremont was beyond what he ever experienced, and that he will return to the race, in hopes to win it.

He may burn out in this vicious CX-Road-XC triangle, let's hope not, and enjoy it while it lasts, this kind of versatility is not seen that often these days.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Looks like Annika Langvad and Simon Andreason won Sea Otter today. I was happily not in last place (barely) and didn't get passed by any women :lol:

Not techy, but a fun course!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

This weekend marks the start of the MTB season.

Mid-april is when all the European series start going and you get to view on how people have wintered. I suspect that we will be seeing some people come into the season pretty slow. This year most of the big races are in July and August. Someone could be absolutely terrible right now and have a killer season.

Still, it is interesting to see who is going well.


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

And of course: it‘s a special season because of Tokyo. Here in Germany it doesn‘t matter if you score your results in the beginning or the end of the season. Selection for the olympic squad is only based on results. Pick your races wisely


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

MvdP blew the doors off of Julian Alaphilippe, Tim Wellens and Michael Matthews at Brabantse Pijl today.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/de-brabantse-pijl-la-flche-brabanonne-2019/results/


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> MvdP blew the doors off of Julian Alaphilippe, Tim Wellens and Michael Matthews at Brabantse Pijl today.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/de-brabantse-pijl-la-flche-brabanonne-2019/results/


I was watching the race and thought he was going to be outfoxed by those roadies...Bling had no gas, Wellens is not known to be a sprinter and JA had the best chance...and nope...not even close!!! I wonder what his power numbers look like in a race like today!!!

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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> MvdP blew the doors off of Julian Alaphilippe, Tim Wellens and Michael Matthews at Brabantse Pijl today.
> 
> De Brabantse Pijl 2019: Results | Cyclingnews.com


Super impressive, not only strong but he must be pretty confident as well to launch a sprint from the front against Alaphilippe and Matthews. Really looking forward to the mtb races now!


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

Skier78 said:


> Super impressive, not only strong but he must be pretty confident as well to launch a sprint from the front against Alaphilippe and Matthews. Really looking forward to the mtb races now!


And he just outdid himself at Amstel. Seriously that was insane.

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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

euro-trash said:


> And he just outdid himself at Amstel. Seriously that was insane.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Ridiculous.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

MvdP just chased down Alaphilippe, Kwiato and Fuglsang. Pulled the chasing group for the last 2km+. They were 55s back at 7.5km to go, and it was pretty darn flat.

Then sprinted from the front. And aside from Clarke on his wheel, won handily.

I've never seen anything like that before.


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> MvdP just chased down Alaphilippe, Kwiato and Schachmann. Pulled the chasing group for the last 2km+.
> 
> Then sprinted from the front. And aside from Clarke on his wheel, won handily.


Sean Kelly chasing down Argentin on the Poggio it's the only comparison I can think of. And that was 1992.

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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

What are odds we will ever see Van der Poel on mtb again? Once you are doing like he's doing on road, I would say it's insane to even think racing mtb for hamburger and fries when you can get millions on road instead.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

euro-trash said:


> Sean Kelly chasing down Argentin on the Poggio it's the only comparison I can think of. And that was 1992.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

primoz said:


> What are odds we will ever see Van der Poel on mtb again? Once you are doing like he's doing on road, I would say it's insane to even think racing mtb for hamburger and fries when you can get millions on road instead.


Does he see it that way though? I don't know if his desire (ego) to win in everything allows him to see that... or, maybe it's to a point where he sees he needs to specialize and strike where he's most competitive while also paying the bills.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

primoz said:


> What are odds we will ever see Van der Poel on mtb again? Once you are doing like he's doing on road, I would say it's insane to even think racing mtb for hamburger and fries when you can get millions on road instead.


I think he's said that, aside from the Dutch road championship, this is his last major road race of the year. Focusing on XCO WC MTB this year and through 2020 Olympics in Tokyo.

I think he could be competitive at L-B-L but he/his team declined the invite because he wants to take a break before gearing up for MTB.


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## JoelGuelph (May 20, 2010)

primoz said:


> What are odds we will ever see Van der Poel on mtb again? Once you are doing like he's doing on road, I would say it's insane to even think racing mtb for hamburger and fries when you can get millions on road instead.


He gets his millions from CX. I've heard there's only a handful of roadies making more than he pulls in through CX.

No source or data to back that up though.

Maybe he realizes that once you are making that much money, an extra 20% isn't worth not doing what you want.

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Wow...just wow!!! That’s almost unbelievable!!!


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

JoelGuelph said:


> He gets his millions from CX. I've heard there's only a handful of roadies making more than he pulls in through CX.
> 
> No source or data to back that up though.
> 
> ...


I remember reading an Interview with Niels Albert (2 time cyclocross world champion) and he indicated that he would need the Salary of a monument winner/contender (Flanders, Roubaix, L-B-L etc) on the road to equal the pay he was getting in Cyclocross. Start money+winnings+endorsements is pretty good for the top guys.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I read that Canyon bikes treats him very well, too. He doesn't seem to need a WT contract to ensure financial stability. And the WT teams are calling him for sure.





Van der Poel courted by major teams but says 'they will have to wait' | Cyclingnews.com


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## m3bas (Dec 24, 2011)

Wasn’t VDP racing MTB to ensure Olympic selection? You would have to assume he’s assured a place on the road team now if he wants it. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him skip most MTB races, but who knows



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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Some people like to just race bikes and tear people’s legs off. 

Just enjoy the show, people. 


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

FJSnoozer said:


> Some people like to just race bikes and tear people's legs off.


Some of us just love to race bikes and get our legs torn off :lol:


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

m3bas said:


> Wouldn't be surprised to see him skip most MTB races, but who knows


Not saying I know anything more about the guy than anyone else, but I get a sense that the more difficult the challenge, the higher his motivation. XCO - specifically Nino, and to some extent also Kerschbaumer over the latter half of 2018 - are challenges that have proven beyond him so far, unlike CX and road racing. I think he's going to go full gas to try to overcome that barrier in MTB.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

Sidewalk said:


> Some of us just love to race bikes and get our legs torn off :lol:


Right there with you!


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Circlip said:


> Not saying I know anything more about the guy than anyone else, but I get a sense that the more difficult the challenge, the higher his motivation. XCO - specifically Nino, and to some extent also Kerschbaumer over the latter half of 2018 - are challenges that have proven beyond him so far, unlike CX and road racing. I think he's going to go full gas to try to overcome that barrier in MTB.


Spot on. 
It will no doubt upset/rankle him that he failed to win a single XCO WC race last season. He will be absolutely hell bent on rectifying that this year. Can he beat the great Nino Schurter? (not to mention others). That's the million $ question..


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

In a similar vein, Annika Langvad discovers she's not too shabby at road racing! Podiums again in a major race. 
La Fleche Wallonne Feminine 2019: Results | Cyclingnews.com


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

In case anybody wanted to look at MvDP's data from Amstel Gold, it's up on Strava:
https://www.strava.com/activities/2307958367/analysis


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

and Fuglsang (ex mountainbiker) just placed second!!!


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Can somebody please explain to me how this curve is non-monotonically decreasing? It seems impossible to me to have a higher 9 min power than 8 min power. Bug in Strava? Or perhaps how they're sampling it? Or am I in the wrong?


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## forrest_m (May 26, 2015)

bikeranzin said:


> View attachment 1248374
> 
> 
> Can somebody please explain to me how this curve is non-monotonically decreasing? It seems impossible to me to have a higher 9 min power than 8 min power. Bug in Strava? Or perhaps how they're sampling it? Or am I in the wrong?


I think it's just an artifact of the terrain, i.e. relatively short, intense climbs followed by coasting downhill. I get a similar pattern when I do an interval workout with very consistent power separated by short rests.









For example, in this hypothetical power graph of 5 minute intervals with a 1 minute rest, the 11 minute average will always be higher than the 10 minute, because the best 10 minutes still includes a 1 minute rest that makes up a larger percentage of the interval than the same 1 minute taken out of an 11 minute interval. For example, assume that the interval is at 100w and the rest is 0 to make the math easy:

The average power of the best 11 minute interval is [(10m x 100w)+(1m x 0w)]/11m - 90.9w
The average power of the best 10 minute interval is [(9m x 100w)+(1m x 0w)]/10m - 90.0w


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Awesome explanation. Thanks! Learned something new today.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

bikeranzin said:


> Awesome explanation. Thanks! Learned something new today.


Great explanation. In my mind I picture a steady effort barbelled with two big surge sprints efforts on either end spaced 9 minutes apart.

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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Hoping this link works for streaming UCI Internationali d'Italia San Marino xco tomorrow...Nino et al in the lineup.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MattMay said:


> Hoping this link works for streaming UCI Internationali d'Italia San Marino xco tomorrow...Nino et al in the lineup.


"This video has been removed for violating YouTube's Terms of Service."


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Yeh, figured as much. But there is a legit vid on YouTube now. Not great coverage. All in Italian. Looked like a mud fest. Lars Foster for the win.


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## forrest_m (May 26, 2015)

Nino Shurter posted some funny video from San Marino on his instagram, called it an "ass sliding contest" :-0


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

That’s classic!!


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

primoz said:


> What are odds we will ever see Van der Poel on mtb again? Once you are doing like he's doing on road, I would say it's insane to even think racing mtb for hamburger and fries when you can get millions on road instead.


He was pretty clear in his interviews he will be racing XCO until the Tokyo Olympics. 
I don't know much about his character, but from the racing part, he set a goal an repeatedly stated he will be sticking to it, regardless of the achievements he did on road.

I am not sure how his XCO season will pan out after all this, but watching the Amstel race got me in utter disbelief.

What is a bit on the disappointing side is (persistent) lack of commentary knowledge of his XCO involvement in past years, where the majority of the year, he did XCO, without wins, but he did it consistenty.

I'm looking forward to Albstadt like a child.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Goran_injo said:


> I'm looking forward to Albstadt like a child.


Glad I'm not the only one.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Unfortunately Sam Gaze is out of the WC's for the foreseeable future.

https://www.instagram.com/samuelgaze/?hl=en


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

madfella said:


> Unfortunately Sam Gaze is out of the WC's for the foreseeable future.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/samuelgaze/?hl=en


He can't catch a break!!!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Fumic and Marotte are training and testing wheels/tires in Albstadt (per Instragram post)


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Jenny Rissveds starting her own team according to her IG.

https://www.instagram.com/jennyriss...tm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1ecn2xmi6xcds


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## JoelGuelph (May 20, 2010)

Some crazy mud action from the Italian National Series!

A lot of the big guns sliding on their asses, lol!






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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Anton Cooper on the track at Albstadt...


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

NordieBoy said:


> Anton Cooper on the track at Albstadt...


I agree with him. I saw his post, and that looks way too groomed, like a track requiring lots of power and very little skill.

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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

I disagree. Albstadt has always been a straight forward power to weight track. I think a variety of tracks is good. Maybe the racing is different on a course like Albstadt but i can‘t see it being a problem.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Time to bring out the Boone CX bike then.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

NordieBoy said:


> Anton Cooper on the track at Albstadt...


One cheeky writer in the comments said it was set up like this for MVdP :lol:

Those photos really look like a gravel-road track, not xc. Even the paved roads outside my house are in worse shape than this section, as he said the best in the world in xc riding this is a blasphemy.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

I love me some technical racing, but that looks just like Bentonville back 40. After preriding and rain, a lot of that gravel will be gone and that will be a ripping track. 

I don’t really need to see manufactured “drops” and fake rock gardens and pretend the course is “technical.”

I did have this same reaction to the course I just raced though, so I’m empathize with Anton. That stuff gets in your head though and affects performance and results. It did mine. 


Let’s be honest. WC XC courses are not technical. There are a couple with technical sections. Like Canada. It’s too bad they can’t all be like that, but the variety is good for the drama of the series varied competition. 

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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

TDLover said:


> One cheeky writer in the comments said it was set up like this for MVdP :lol:
> 
> Those photos really look like a gravel-road track, not xc.


That's a good one, MVdP arguably one of the most technically skilled riders in the field.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Train Wreck said:


> That's a good one, MVdP arguably one of the most technically skilled riders in the field.


Arguably? OK, I'll argue. In road or CX that seems about right. However IMHO within the spectrum of WC XCO my eyes rate his skills as average. I haven't noticed him descending noticeably quicker than the average WC top 50 rider, and I'd bet most of that group can pull off a similar repertoire of clever bike tricks. That being said, the average skill level in the first 50 riders at any WC is an extremely high standard within the genre of XC. Being average within that group makes someone an impressively skilled rider.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Train Wreck said:


> That's a good one, MVdP arguably one of the most technically skilled riders in the field.


I don't think he is above many if any at the top level and honestly think his technical ability (lack of) has kinda cost him. He has crashed several times that hurt his race and results, on not very technical features. To me he seems really static and seated most of the time, kinda like watching Sagan on a MTB at the last Olympics.


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

Btw: the track was set up like this because the riders complained about the unrideability of some parts after last years mudfest.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

kevbikemad said:


> I don't think he is above many if any at the top level and honestly think his technical ability (lack of) has kinda cost him. He has crashed several times that hurt his race and results, on not very technical features. To me he seems really static and seated most of the time, kinda like watching Sagan on a MTB at the last Olympics.


Speculating here, but the few times I saw him crash seemed to be when he was chasing hard. And, if memory serves, he was always chasing hard in last year's xco, never quite cracking the top spot. I guess you could say those kinds of crashes are a weakness in technical ability, but I'd rule out him just being flat out exhausted first.


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## weeksy950 (Jan 11, 2012)

Looks exactly like a typical trail center in the UK these days.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

winters.benjamin said:


> Speculating here, but the few times I saw him crash seemed to be when he was chasing hard. And, if memory serves, he was always chasing hard in last year's xco, never quite cracking the top spot. I guess you could say those kinds of crashes are a weakness in technical ability, but I'd rule out him just being flat out exhausted first.


MvdP is not at Nino's level technically. I'm a big fan of MvdP but he was chasing hard last year because he probably loses fractions of seconds to Nino in every technical turn and downhill section. That requires more power to catch back on which exhausts him, and yes causes crashes.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chilla13 said:


> Btw: the track was set up like this because the riders complained about the unrideability of some parts after last years mudfest.


The mud was awful last year. Quite a few riders ended up having to replace their frames because the mud on the tire wore holes in the chainstays. They definitely need to do some work to make it all weather compatible, particularly for worlds next year. But this does look pretty terrible, hopefully by race day a single track groove is burned in.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Remember when everybody was ranting about the London Olympic Course? And later everybody liked it? Well, let's see what happens come race day...

Albstadt has been a cruel mud fest quite a few times...just ask Absalon...he might ell you a story...


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Funny accusing MdP for preferring gravel vs mud, considering this is what he does for the majority of the year.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Goran_injo said:


> Funny accusing MdP for preferring gravel vs mud, considering this is what he does for the majority of the year.


Yeah. I'm guessing the muddier it gets, the more it would favor MvdP.

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Yeah. I'm guessing the muddier it gets, the more it would favor MvdP.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


La Bresse was a mudder last year. MvdP was so cracked from trying to match the top guys pace on the downhills that he couldn't even hold wheels on the flat open pedalling sections.

My experience is that skill of riding a CX bike in the wet and riding an MTB in wet are vastly difference. The only thing similar to a CX bike in the wet is a Fat Bike in a bit of fresh powder.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Graveled path on Cooper's image in not a downhill section.


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

LMN said:


> La Bresse was a mudder last year. MvdP was so cracked from trying to match the top guys pace on the downhills that he couldn't even hold wheels on the flat open pedalling sections.
> 
> My experience is that skill of riding a CX bike in the wet and riding an MTB in wet are vastly difference. The only thing similar to a CX bike in the wet is a Fat Bike in a bit of fresh powder.


MvDP has an extensive history of piling his face into the ground in really muddy and technical CX courses too. He has the physical ability to go so hard... and when he's that redlined he makes mistakes.

this is exactly what LMN observed at La Bresse last year. He was chasing a LOT. We've see this on other non-muddy races as well.

That said, he's gotten vastly better over the last two years. It used to be common to see VdP take him self out of contention at CX races because of stupid technical errors. His time on the MTB and XCO racing has made him a much better CX racer.

Muddy euro CX racers are mostly about two things:

1. Pure tractor like power in the much and soft ground.

2. Hanging on for dear life and praying to not die on the downhills (Namur anyone?). I mean, they routinely setup inflatable crash barriers.

While the muddy downhills are certainly terrifying, they aren't the same "tech" as a muddy MTB descent.


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## JoelGuelph (May 20, 2010)

Agreed about CX skills vs. MTB skills. They transfer one way far better than the other.

This post shows Anton's other pics. I can't believe what they did to Midas! Making a climb like that is one thing, but to do it to a feature like that! Terrible! 
Is Albstadt pushing World Cup XCO in the wrong direction? - Canadian Cycling Magazine https://cyclingmagazine.ca/mtb/is-albstadt-pushing-world-cup-xco-in-the-wrong-direction/

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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Yeah. I'm guessing the muddier it gets, the more it would favor MvdP.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And the more below 0 deg C the better...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Anton again...


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

NordieBoy said:


> Anton again...


Well, let's hope in the 1 week they have left they fix the track, because not even spectators want to see this track as it is shown.

Taken from their official 2019 tech media guide:









Looks like they make it exactly as anton show it to look, perhaps now with the backlash they are having they are having second thoughts?


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

I sure don't understand gravel on a mtb trail. 

If you roll onto gravel with muddy tires from another part of the trail, your wheels pack up so fast it can be dangerous as well. Also way more injuries when you fall. 

Making a trail work well in all weather has more to do with proper grading and design. They could have armored the thread with slabs instead. I also never understand the cart path width, no one is going to pass on a DH gravel cart path, unless is is really straight section of mellow side hill.

I get why, just don't care for how.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Just something that stuck out to me. Making a B line faster cause the time penalty if taking it was pushing riders to take a risk. Doesn’t that negate the purpose of a B line or am I’m just uneducated in that area?

Which line is a choice. If you have the skill, bonus you can take the faster A line. If not, take the B and the longer section and maybe target that skill set in the upcoming off season.


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

JoelGuelph said:


> Agreed about CX skills vs. MTB skills. They transfer one way far better than the other.
> 
> This post shows Anton's other pics. I can't believe what they did to Midas! Making a climb like that is one thing, but to do it to a feature like that! Terrible!
> Is Albstadt pushing World Cup XCO in the wrong direction? - Canadian Cycling Magazine https://cyclingmagazine.ca/mtb/is-albstadt-pushing-world-cup-xco-in-the-wrong-direction/
> ...


Well that sucks. :-\

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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

While I applaud Coopers stance in this, I do hope it doesn't serve as a distraction for next weekend. I hope he stays off the socials until then.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

kevbikemad said:


> I don't think he is above many if any at the top level and honestly think his technical ability (lack of) has kinda cost him. He has crashed several times that hurt his race and results, on not very technical features. To me he seems really static and seated most of the time, kinda like watching Sagan on a MTB at the last Olympics.


It's not that MvDP lacks technical skill its he hasn't been riding Mtb's for very long and doesn't seem to practice much. it's as others have pointed out he rides at his limit and this has caught him out in cyclocross. Unless he makes a concerted effort to get better on the mtb he'll continue to get beat by the top mtb guys ( not short track which isn't really xc mtbing). It seems arrogant to me and mildly pisses me off that people assume hes just going to come in after a couple weeks on the mtb and beat some of the best bike drivers in the world.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Rivet said:


> It's not that MvDP lacks technical skill its he hasn't been riding Mtb's for very long and doesn't seem to practice much. it's as others have pointed out he rides at his limit and this has caught him out in cyclocross. Unless he makes a concerted effort to get better on the mtb he'll continue to get beat by the top mtb guys ( not short track which isn't really xc mtbing). It seems arrogant to me and mildly pisses me off that people assume hes just going to come in after a couple weeks on the mtb and beat some of the best bike drivers in the world.


To be fair, he shouldn't have been able to step into the spring classics and do what he did.

Conventional wisdom would be that after a break he is off form for the first two world cups and then builds into form for the summer ones. But this is MVDP, convention doesn't seem to apply.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

LMN said:


> To be fair, he shouldn't have been able to step into the spring classics and do what he did.


Further underscoring what an athletic phenom Nino is. Different disciplines, but MVDP has walked all over top pros in road and CX. The fact he hasn't quite cracked it in XCO says something special, IMO.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Rivet said:


> . It seems arrogant to me and mildly pisses me off that people assume hes just going to come in after a couple weeks on the mtb and beat some of the best bike drivers in the world.


It is the hype of invincibility surrounding him that sets the expectation, on the other hand, that hype is much less than what it would be if he stayed on the road. 
In the eyes of roadies, XC is "taking a break", and in "our eyes", he can be forgiven not performing well due to CX and spring classics performance. 
Expectation wise, he is in a very good position, pressure is less than it would be in any other scenario.

We will know soon enough.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

winters.benjamin said:


> Further underscoring what an athletic phenom Nino is. Different disciplines, but MVDP has walked all over top pros in road and CX. The fact he hasn't quite cracked it in XCO says something special, IMO.


Absolutely right. Nino is special. Even if these guys are supercharged beyond the bounds of legality, Nino is still the most well rounded mountain biker in the world.


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

LMN said:


> The mud was awful last year. Quite a few riders ended up having to replace their frames because the mud on the tire wore holes in the chainstays. They definitely need to do some work to make it all weather compatible, particularly for worlds next year. But this does look pretty terrible, hopefully by race day a single track groove is burned in.


Seems there's always more to a story than what's reported .....

Thank's for sharing your observations and insights Rick. You're a LOT closer to what's actually happening @ the XC discipline than anyone else @ this little petri dish. I've learned a lot that's applicable to my efforts. More please : )


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

jms said:


> Seems there's always more to a story than what's reported .....


The funny thing about the Albstadt story is just about nobody liked the course in the first place. Steep 4 minute climbs followed by 30 second descents. And everybody knows that the course was just about un-rideable in heavy rains.

I am going to wait until race day before I pass judgement on the course. Let us see what the trails look like after they have been burned in.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Picks?

Women:
Hard to go with any one other than Annika. She always comes into the season fit, and with all the road racing she has been doing is probably the sharpest (fitness wise at least).

Other contenders: Kate is going really well as in Anna Tabeur.

People who have suspect form: Neff and Batty.

Men: This is a harder one.

I think this is the year that Nino is longer the top rider. But who is going to knock him off.
Kerschbaumer is the obvious choice but was last year just a one off? Lars Foster has been the rider to beat as of late. MVDP has been on a different planet on the road.

My pick MvDP.

North Americans:
Lots of the north americans who can do well in the women's side. By my count there are eight women capable of a top 10. The men's side as always is a little thinner. But I do think that Peter Diseara and Keegan S. are going really well.

A rider to watch for the future in the U23 ranks is Haley Batten from US. She is working with Kristen Armstrong this year, and lives in Squamish during the winter. I think she has all the tools to become one of the best riders in the world.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

For women I also believe Langvad will be unbeatable, the track should suit her perfectly. 

For men I think MVdP will get his first win, the track should fit him well and he is in phenomenal form, I think this is also his best chance at winning this season.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Nino
MVDP
Cooper


Langvad
Courtney
Batty


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

I don't think Kerschbaumer will crack the podium next week. He's been racing well but not dominating by any means. 

Nino (just because)
Forster 
Going with Cooper, since he seemed to come in strong last season, and I don't know how to align MVDP's CX and road wins w/XCO prospects. 

Courtney
Langvad 
Batty


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

All I know is I'm excited!


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

Women: In the dry, Langvald. If it's raining, Neff.

Men: In the dry, Schurter. If it's raining, it'll be even more "Schurtery".


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

I don't think Schurters reign is over just yet, he's not that old. There is plenty of young talent in the field, though. 

Schurter and Neff for the win


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Last race before the world cup opening today with the Swiss cup in Solothurn, the town where I live 
It was quite muddy (heavy rains started at the middle of the women race), but the race is technically easy, with a long part on the road connecting the old town to the trail section in the forest.

Results here.

Women:
1. Kate Courtney
2. Jolanda Neff (+29'')
3. Ramona Forchini (+37'')
10. Julie Bresset (+6'21'')

Men:
1. Nino Schurter
2. Mathias Flückiger (+7'')
3. Lars Forster (+42'')
12. Anton Cooper (+3'54'')


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Emily Batty has uploaded stories with her comments on the track at Albstadt on IG. She cites Anton's post on that, and she calls the track "extremely manicured".

I'm obviously interested in the race because these athletes will make it interesting on any track, but I'm disappointed by the track's reduced technical difficulty. 

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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

bananajoe said:


> Last race before the world cup opening today with the Swiss cup in Solothurn, the town where I live
> It was quite muddy (heavy rains started at the middle of the women race), but the race is technically easy, with a long part on the road connecting the old town to the trail section in the forest.
> 
> Results here.
> ...


Seems like Mathis Fluckiger will have another solid season.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Finding the results of a USA Cycling event is like solving the case of Jack the Ripper.

Does anyone have a link for the XC National Marathon Championships results today? Specifically the women?


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

jrob300 said:


> Finding the results of a USA Cycling event is like solving the case of Jack the Ripper.
> 
> Does anyone have a link for the XC National Marathon Championships results today? Specifically the women?


USAC Marathon MTB National Championships is the link

Rose Grant won, followed by Kaysee Armstrong and Crystal Anthony.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

sooshee said:


> USAC Marathon MTB National Championships is the link
> 
> Rose Grant won, followed by Kaysee Armstrong and Crystal Anthony.


Thank you so much. Rose is a friend and has been coming back from injury. This must be so encouraging for her!!!!


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Rose didn't just "win", she destroyed. She had the race by 16:29. Super impressive.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

bikeranzin said:


> Rose didn't just "win", she destroyed. She had the race by 16:29. Super impressive.


:drumroll:


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Any insight into the crash that happened between Neff and Keller at Solothurn? Seems to be a bit of shade being thrown in social between the two. Awful situation for Keller though, both arms in casts right before the first WC.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

bikeranzin said:


> Any insight into the crash that happened between Neff and Keller at Solothurn? Seems to be a bit of shade being thrown in social between the two. Awful situation for Keller though, both arms in casts right before the first WC.


I don't have any more info, except that she is six weeks out.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

bananajoe said:


> I don't have any more info, except that she is six weeks out.


Ouch!...fracture on both hands, must have been a bizarre crash to end up like that.


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## Purulento (Aug 27, 2009)

Solothurn elite men. Lol at the start


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

TDLover said:


> Ouch!...fracture on both hands, must have been a bizarre crash to end up like that.


Man that sucks. Game of Thrones new episodes, smallish silver lining.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Weather for Albstadt is forecasted as rain. 
I guess Anton and others will be silent now, option 2 is a cx event like in Solothurn.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

The start list was released, looks like Luke Vrouwenvelder is the only one flying red white and blue.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Keegan Swenson is racing too. He is going really well right now, I expect a good performance from him.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Train Wreck said:


> The start list was released, looks like Luke Vrouwenvelder is the only one flying red white and blue.


He's coming off a concussion. Had a very good season last year; hope he can get in the points this weekend.

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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

LMN said:


> Keegan Swenson is racing too. He is going really well right now, I expect a good performance from him.


I see that on his Instagram, but I don't see his name on the start list. Am I missing something?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Train Wreck said:


> I see that on his Instagram, but I don't see his name on the start list. Am I missing something?


He is on the start list. I think he is #64, which means he is racing the short track.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Bbcopeland uploaded an IG story with a new video from the track. 



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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Purulento said:


> Solothurn elite men. Lol at the start


The hardtail isn't dead yet


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

Redbull is covering the live XCC race from Albstadt now...


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

tewks13 said:


> Redbull is covering the live XCC race from Albstadt now...


I want to love the short track, but this course take almost zero MTB skills at all. Come on organizers.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

kevbikemad said:


> I want to love the short track, but this course take almost zero MTB skills at all. Come on organizers.


Very dull short track, not sure what organizers are thinking, this isn't cross country...


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

kevbikemad said:


> I want to love the short track, but this course take almost zero MTB skills at all. Come on organizers.


I would rather watch a fat tire crit. Or the opposite, some hilariously difficult course.

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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

FJSnoozer said:


> I would rather watch a fat tire crit. Or the opposite, some hilariously difficult course.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If someone would "Neff" the men's race and attack early, great, but you can just see them sit in until 2 laps when MVDP will move up and attack.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Agreed. Super monotonous XCC course.

Anyone else playing the Pinkbike XC Fantasy League? 

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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

kevbikemad said:


> If someone would "Neff" the men's race and attack early, great, but you can just see them sit in until 2 laps when MVDP will move up and attack.


You are just assuming he will win a Crit. MVDP May have to get a breakaway flyer while I bet there are some hitters in the field with more absolute power. It's a Crit, so they wouldn't just let the same guy ride away every week and people would get marked or work together.

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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

FJSnoozer said:


> You are just assuming he will win a Crit. MVDP May have to get a breakaway flyer while I bet there are some hitters in the field with more absolute power. It's a Crit, so they wouldn't just let the same guy ride away every week and people would get marked or work together.


But assuming is all I'm really good at.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

kevbikemad said:


> But assuming is all I'm really good at.


That's why Bench Racing is so fun though.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

kevbikemad said:


> I want to love the short track, but this course take almost zero MTB skills at all. Come on organizers.


To each their own. I found it gripping. And there were definitely things that took skills. If you paid attention, Nino and Neff were both putting time on people on even just a couple corners. Forster did it to MvdP on the last lap, which was painstakingly _almost_ enough to seal the win.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

bikeranzin said:


> To each their own. I found it gripping. And there were definitely things that took skills. If you paid attention, Nino and Neff were both putting time on people on even just a couple corners. Forster did it to MvdP on the last lap, which was painstakingly _almost_ enough to seal the win.


In my read, MvdP let that gap open up -- he was either going to let Nino pull him up and crush everyone in the sprint, or, as it did happen, jump up to Forster, pass him and make Nino both chase back on and then have to pass two to take the win. Seemed like a good adaptation of cyclocross and road tactics. Unless MvdP gets tired or loses interest in winning the short track, I can't see him losing one of these anytime soon. He may still go winless in the Sunday series, but these short fast races are so much in his wheelhouse. Well, other than lots of climbing, everything in cycling seems to be in his wheelhouse.

I too like the short track races -- it was interesting to see tactics in both races with respect to favorites trying to make the other favorites work hard at different times. Nino spent a lot of time looking over his shoulder to see (I presume) where MvdP was, and laid down at least one attack in an effort to try and snap MvdP's group off, or at least make it hard for him to move up. There was a lot of tactics to appreciate, at least in the front group of both races.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

bikeranzin said:


> To each their own. I found it gripping. And there were definitely things that took skills. If you paid attention, Nino and Neff were both putting time on people on even just a couple corners. Forster did it to MvdP on the last lap, which was painstakingly _almost_ enough to seal the win.


Exactly, add a bit of mtb terrain so the mtb skills make a difference. Our U9 kids courses are more technical.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Great analysis! It was a very tactical race, though I still want gnarlier tracks .

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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Good tactical race.


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## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

Get your picks in...

Women
1. Neff
2. Courtney
3. Langvad
Men
1. Schurter
2. Forster
3. Marotte

Wild card, Belomoina comes all the way from miles back to 3rd.
MVDP fades to 4th-5th.

Lock em in.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Kate Courtney was so efficient and smart in the women's short track race. She rode almost the entire race 3rd wheel and only put down the watts when it mattered. I love the tactics of short track racing.

No one in the field has the 1 minute max anaerobic power of MvdP. But, in a 90 minute race, I foresee him struggling to win as he lets small gaps open on off camber turns and downhills. Closing all those small gaps over a 90 minute race will use up his anaerobic power. He's also much bigger than the other guys so longer climbs will hurt him more.


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

Keegan Swenson finished 23rd out of a field of 40 in the short track, putting him on the third row tomorrow


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Ptor said:


> In my read, MvdP let that gap open up -- he was either going to let Nino pull him up and crush everyone in the sprint, or, as it did happen, jump up to Forster, pass him and make Nino both chase back on and then have to pass two to take the win. Seemed like a good adaptation of cyclocross and road tactics. Unless MvdP gets tired or loses interest in winning the short track, I can't see him losing one of these anytime soon. He may still go winless in the Sunday series, but these short fast races are so much in his wheelhouse. Well, other than lots of climbing, everything in cycling seems to be in his wheelhouse.
> 
> I too like the short track races -- it was interesting to see tactics in both races with respect to favorites trying to make the other favorites work hard at different times. Nino spent a lot of time looking over his shoulder to see (I presume) where MvdP was, and laid down at least one attack in an effort to try and snap MvdP's group off, or at least make it hard for him to move up. There was a lot of tactics to appreciate, at least in the front group of both races.


Only one that will be able to challenge MvdP will be Gaze, similar size and might have even more power in the sprints. But his form is to be seen first this year.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

plupp said:


> Only one that will be able to challenge MvdP will be Gaze, similar size and might have even more power in the sprints. But his form is to be seen first this year.


Gaze is out for an undetermined amount of time in order to recover from his consecutive injuries .

Let's hope he's able to race a few times this season.

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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Renzo7 said:


> Gaze is out for an undetermined amount of time in order to recover from his consecutive injuries .
> 
> Let's hope he's able to race a few times this season.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


I know, but when in form he has a similar profile as MvdP with an enormous power.

But for tomorrow I think this is one od the best chances MvdP will get to take a win. To simple track for Nino and the others.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Agreed! Gaze has a great sprint 

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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

kevbikemad said:


> Exactly, add a bit of mtb terrain so the mtb skills make a difference. Our U9 kids courses are more technical.


It wasn't much different outcome regardless on track  Best ones will still be up front, and bad ones can't play a role even if it would be asphalt all the way. Just cought few words on Red Bull TV today, with Schurter, Avancini, Courtney and Langvad and every single one agreed that track in Albstad is actually way better then after this changes then it was, even though not super technical, and in case of rain much better and safer then anything before. So if these guys like it, and at least some of them prefer more technical stuff, I guess it's not all that bad 
But as with every sport, you can have super technical or super easy track, guys and girls on top positions are always same. Some outsider won't win race regardless on track.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

My predictions:

1. MVdP
2.Nino
3. Mathias Fluckiger

1. Neff
2. Belamoina
3. Courtney


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Interesting photo showing Nino's helmet covered for aerodynamic advantage in xcc, I guess they have ran some numbers and find it significant. Forster also had his covered.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

primoz said:


> It wasn't much different outcome regardless on track  Best ones will still be up front, and bad ones can't play a role even if it would be asphalt all the way. Just cought few words on Red Bull TV today, with Schurter, Avancini, Courtney and Langvad and every single one agreed that track in Albstad is actually way better then after this changes then it was, even though not super technical, and in case of rain much better and safer then anything before. So if these guys like it, and at least some of them prefer more technical stuff, I guess it's not all that bad
> But as with every sport, you can have super technical or super easy track, guys and girls on top positions are always same. Some outsider won't win race regardless on track.


Agreed.

It is the XC racers that make a good XC race, not the course. Some of the most boring races I have watched have been at MSA, which is super technical course.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Watching the pinkbike preview on the xco race felt so weird hearing Kate native English as opposed to everyone else's.

Kinda speaks as to how rare USA riders were in the top field of world cups.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Looking slippery as out there


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

What a weekend for Kate Courtney. Looking so strong and in control in both races.

Those new wood features were a menace in this weather, big crashes in the exact same way for both Kate and Anne Tauber, and another crash in a different spot for Jolanda Neff.

Big weekend for Chloe Woodruff as well! 6th place today and together with her short track points she is 4th in the overall! Along with Haley Smith in 9th and Catherine Pendrel in 12th, 4 North Americans in the top 12!


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

what happened to Langvad and Batty? Not even close to the front?


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

Langvad pulled out of the race in the first or second lap, and Batty finished 28th.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I like how fluckinger took off his sunnies, stuck them in his mouth...then did that crazy wooden Dh, then tossed them to the crowd ages later...


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

It could really be one of those crazy back and forth races thanks to the wet conditions. Nino and MVDP went out so hard, might have been a mistake. TBD.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

When’s the last time Nino didn’t even podium?!


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

about 1932 seems like


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxpbTldJXIM

Post from Annika about her race today


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Train Wreck said:


> That's a good one, MVdP arguably one of the most technically skilled riders in the field.


I stand behind this statement.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

When's the last time someone dropped a chain and still won a XCO race? Wow.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Great races, Nino doesn't do well in rainy conditions and today he basically rescued some points for the overall. I believe the men WC title will be a very tight battle between Nino and MVDP and with the shortrack points Nino will have to work extra hard to catch up MDVP. 

Terrible race for Fortser, I wonder if he is okay, he look pretty injured. 

Also, the field is really making that win for MDVP elusive as hell, which is good for us viewers. Fluckiger very strong in a track that doesn't suit him well, he will be one to watch for this season. 

The women race was interesting as well, great races by the top 3, Kate managed the race well, Neff played it smart and grabbed second for overall title points and Yana all way from behind to an outstanding third place. 

Shame on Anika retiring and Rissveds not even showing up to the race, I think everyone wants to see her racing even if she ends dead last.


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

Forster is in hospital, per scott-sram instagram. Rissveds was DNS with a cold apparently.


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## mysharona (Apr 15, 2019)

Some rather disappointing results for some of the top riders to open the season. Batty, Langvad and Schurter all finishing relatively poorly or not finishing at all in Langvad's case. 

Batty, seeking that elusive first World Cup, barely cracks the top 30. Langvad was DNF in xc and was not much of a factor in short track. Schurter off the podium. 

Is Albstadt an anomaly? Will the top riders I mentioned round into form as the season progresses?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Anton Cooper, front flat on lap 2 and 6...


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

dwperry said:


> ....Big weekend for Chloe Woodruff as well! 6th place today and together with her short track points she is 4th in the overall! Along with Haley Smith in 9th and Catherine Pendrel in 12th, 4 North Americans in the top 12!


No doubt. Kate's success is awesome, but the other mentioned finishes are absolutely incredible!


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

dwperry said:


> Forster is in hospital, per scott-sram instagram. Rissveds was DNS with a cold apparently.


Thanks for the info! I was wondering what had happened to Rissveds.

I was looking forward to seeing her race, and I was disappointed to hear no mention of her.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

*Carnage*

Watched the replay of the Womens and the Mens as it happened on Redbull. Flueckiger and Sarrou were the only riders that seemed to have a handle on that course, in those conditions. Listening Brentjens commentary, the crushed limestone gravel added to the course, actually made the mud slicker.

I'll be interested in LMN's observations.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Anyone find a link to full XCO results?
Keegan Swenson did pretty well I believe.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Pretty good coverage for first of season race - thanks Red Bull!

(Ask Sideline Ric to find some enthusiasm though eh?)


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

madfella said:


> Anyone find a link to full XCO results?
> Keegan Swenson did pretty well I believe.


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/final-results-albstadt-world-cup-xc-2019.html


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

Kate and Nino running Aspens in the semi-muck, front and rear. Interesting. 

That metal covered wood crap is total BS. Made it WAY more dangerous on the downhills than dirt and mud. Plus, if you crash on it it's like a meat grinder.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

Kate seems out of this world. She's 23 and already winning by these margins. I'm confident that she is well trained, not peaked and will only get faster as the year progresses. The american's are lazer focused on doing well in Mt St Anne cause that's how you qualify for the olympics. She might win by >2 mins later in the year as the courses get more technical and difficult. 

I still think Nino will win the WC in Mt. St Anne. He's not as fit as he once was, so he can't win every single race. But the man has experience, knows his body and will likely pull out an amazing peak performance in September. It's amazing to me that a guy of his technical abilities does bad in mud. You'd think with his fitness level, it would benefit him.


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

Why do American women besides Kate Courtney wear Team USA kits and not their specific team kit (Chloe for Stans, Lea for Felt, etc)?


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Unbrockenchain said:


> Why do American women besides Kate Courtney wear Team USA kits and not their specific team kit (Chloe for Stans, Lea for Felt, etc)?


I think it's because their teams aren't registered with the UCI. Others can probably confirm.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

csteven71 said:


> I think it's because their teams aren't registered with the UCI. Others can probably confirm.


Correct. If your team isn't a UCI registered team, the your country's federation has to register you for the race and you have to ware national team colors.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Unbrockenchain said:


> Why do American women besides Kate Courtney wear Team USA kits and not their specific team kit (Chloe for Stans, Lea for Felt, etc)?


They are being supported by the US national team at those races. Generally, when you travel to an event with your national federation or state or provincial organization you have to wear their jersey.

As someone who runs a development team I can tell you it is super frustrating for the teams. Basically the team and the riders have to do all the heavy lifting. I provide the bikes, I find sponsors with cash to help with travel, the riders cover the fees that I can't. The sport organizations only offer support during the weeks and typically the rider has to pay for that support. Yet, despite the fact that the majority of the support comes through the team, they have to wear the provincial or federation jersey.

Makes it really hard for us to find and retain sponsors.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Correct. If your team isn't a UCI registered team, the your country's federation has to register you for the race and you have to ware national team colors.


Actually you don't. Or at least in practice there are a lot of riders on teams that are not registered with UCI racing in team jerseys.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Interesting races all around.

Mens:
Nino and MVDP mades some poor pacing decisions that cost both of them a shot at the victory. Good to see that even the best in the world blow up horribly if they go out too hard. Too bad Foster didn't choose a wet conditions tire, he looked to be the guy to beat.

Womens: 
Nice see Kata confirm her early season form with such a dominant win. She will be hard to beat next weekend. I am surprised and also not really surprised to see Annika struggle. MTB is such a different beast then road and when people have been racing on the road they often struggle with the brutal first lap of an XCO race.

On the personal side.
I was super excited to see Peter D. crack the top 20. I knew from his training that it was in range. Actually, he under performed a bit on the day. He was a little bit nervous and didn't want to throw away a top 20 by going for a top 10. 

Catharine is close to riding like her old self. At 39 everything is harder but she is close.


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

Did I miss something? Where was Maja Włoszczowska?


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Say what you want but that was fun and exciting to watch. Nice, smart and strong race from Flueckiger, I'm very happy for him.

MvdP has a line of young honesty, post race interview saying that he was stupid to go with Nino at start, and that he had a fun race. 

Folks here saying he hasn't got the skills in the XC mud can recheck their calibration devices. 

If they hadn't fixed the course before, this would be unrideable.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

tewks13 said:


> Did I miss something? Where was Maja Włoszczowska?


Sick. Decided to skip the first two rounds to get healthy.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> Actually you don't. Or at least in practice there are a lot of riders on teams that are not registered with UCI racing in team jerseys.


Thanks for the correction!


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Anyone else notice how terribly Neff’s Tires were working for her? 

Was she on a terrible mud packed Xr2 and not a Maxxis she was comfortable with? She looked like a fish out of water. 

Super happy for Fluekinger...what a great post race interview. Good for him for racing his race and having that success. 


Edit: she is on xr2. No freaking way that belongs in the mud. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mojorules (Dec 23, 2005)

Any thoughts on the course post race,I haven't seen any comments on social media concerning how the track raced


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

RE: Maja

Thank you!


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

TDLover said:


> Interesting photo showing Nino's helmet covered for aerodynamic advantage in xcc, I guess they have ran some numbers and find it significant. Forster also had his covered.


Also of interest, apparently he had the "vibration damper" stickers on his bike too. So...I take all race setup with a grain of salt.


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## mysharona (Apr 15, 2019)

Annika wrote up some rather long posts on her social media about her road racing "adventures." Apparently, she wanted to try it just to try it. Unfortunately, it's impacted her early season form adversely. 

It seems any sort of break from routine effects these girls adversely: Neff with a changeup in equipment, Batty with a new teammate, Annika with her offseason road racing adventure. 

Courtney switched teams as well, but likely with a big pay bump, and at least she was able to keep her mechanic lol.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Forster's 2nd crash.....rung his bell....
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/lars-forster-to-miss-nove-mesto-world-cup-after-albstadt-crashes.html


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## EndoAgain (Apr 8, 2005)

Neff- Early on in the race her bike seemed to be bouncing around much more than the others. It was very noticeable on a long climb as they took a tight left hand hairpin. So I thought pressure more so than tire choice was an issue.

Anika- From her instagram I would not be surprised if she was suffering from overtraining. Her power numbers might be great but she sounds to be losing motivation. After the Cape Epic then several road races she might need a break.

Flukiger- Impressive race. He was driving hard all the way to the line. Never buckled physically or stacked it even when he should have been tired and prone to mistakes.

Belamoina- My vote for most impressive race. Had to have the fastest lap in the women field and maybe a couple of the fastest laps as she came from WAAAy back.

Woodruff- Steadily moving up in WC. Nice to hear Rob saying her name this year. He seemed uncomfortable pronouncing her name last year and resorted to skipping her name every single time they showed her last year. Very good weekend for her.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

FJSnoozer said:


> Edit: she is on xr2. No freaking way that belongs in the mud.


Amazingly Kate C won using Maxxis Aspens, far less tread than the XR2 if that is what Neff was on. Last year Neff ran some true mud tires and cleaned up in one muddy race, can't recall which one. But it was not a Maxxis.

What tires was M Flueckiger running? Look like an actual knobby tire. Beavers?

Edit: I think MF had a Racing Ray on the front, and I think the same on the back.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

kevbikemad said:


> Amazingly Kate C won using Maxxis Aspens, far less tread than the XR2 if that is what Neff was on. Last year Neff ran some true mud tires and cleaned up in one muddy race, can't recall which one. But it was not a Maxxis.
> 
> What tires was M Flueckiger running? Look like an actual knobby tire. Beavers?
> 
> Edit: I think MF had a Racing Ray on the front, and I think the same on the back.


Aspen's are actually OK on wet rocks and roots, terrible in mud but on slick surfaces they work pretty well. Combine that with what looked like 14psi in her tires and she had some reasonable grip.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

EndoAgain said:


> Neff- Early on in the race her bike seemed to be bouncing around much more than the others. It was very noticeable on a long climb as they took a tight left hand hairpin. So I thought pressure more so than tire choice was an issue.


I think that is normal for her due to her high rpm pedaling style, it does look very bouncy at times.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

kevbikemad said:


> Amazingly Kate C won using Maxxis Aspens, far less tread than the XR2 if that is what Neff was on. Last year Neff ran some true mud tires and cleaned up in one muddy race, can't recall which one. But it was not a Maxxis.
> 
> What tires was M Flueckiger running? Look like an actual knobby tire. Beavers?
> 
> Edit: I think MF had a Racing Ray on the front, and I think the same on the back.


I think Kross is partnered with Mitas tires for XCO, or was last year.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

BB Copeland said 16/17psi....Also he has stated there will be an XRC30 wheel set soon, not sure if Kate is already riding that or not. Sounds like tire noodles were in her tires too.


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

It's going to be an interesting first month of the season, with the opening races so close together, and then another pair a month afterwards. Holy periodization!


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## AussieJeffVader (Mar 29, 2019)

He certainly had the wobbles...in most football codes he would've been pulled off for a concussion/head injury test.



the mayor said:


> Forster's 2nd crash.....rung his bell....
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/lars-forster-to-miss-nove-mesto-world-cup-after-albstadt-crashes.html


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

LMN said:


> Aspen's are actually OK on wet rocks and roots, terrible in mud but on slick surfaces they work pretty well. Combine that with what looked like 14psi in her tires and she had some reasonable grip.


Thanks for the insights Keith. Congratulations to you and Catharine @ Albstadt and best destiny @ Nova Mesto. Long range weather forecast for Sunday? How does that course ride in the rain/wet?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jms said:


> Thanks for the insights Rick. Congratulations to you and Catharine @ Albstadt and best destiny @ Nova Mesto. Long range weather forecast for Sunday? How does that course ride in the rain/wet?


https://m.pinkbike.com/news/olympic...dian-development-team-with-coach-husband.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

LMN said:


> Aspen's are actually OK on wet rocks and roots, terrible in mud but on slick surfaces they work pretty well. Combine that with what looked like 14psi in her tires and she had some reasonable grip.


Yep, I like the Aspens because they dont pack mud. I use them on wet limestone, but of course I dont have the 170 tpi versions. You could tell how extremely low her pressure and Tauber's were when they hit the road.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Lars Forster out for Nove Mesto, per Pinkbike.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

jms said:


> Thanks for the insights Keith. Congratulations to you and Catharine @ Albstadt and best destiny @ Nova Mesto. Long range weather forecast for Sunday? How does that course ride in the rain/wet?


Unfortunately I am not in Nova Mesto. I have some grade 10 math to teach instead. This week is all about systems of equations.

But Nova Mesto is a rooty beast. In the wet it is slippery but in a fun way, unlike Albstadt. Nova Mesto is generally considered the "funnest" course on the circuit. It is the one which everybody loves to do laps of.


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

LMN said:


> Unfortunately I am not in Nova Mesto. I have some grade 10 math to teach instead. This week is all about systems of equations.
> 
> But Nova Mesto is a rooty beast. In the wet it is slippery but in a fun way, unlike Albstadt. Nova Mesto is generally considered the "funnest" course on the circuit. It is the one which everybody loves to do laps of.


Dooh! Would it be bad to play hooky? ; )

https://www.wunderground.com/hourly/cz/nové-město/date/2019-05-26


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

Renzo7 said:


> Emily Batty has uploaded stories with her comments on the track at Albstadt on IG. She cites Anton's post on that, and she calls the track "extremely manicured".
> 
> I'm obviously interested in the race because these athletes will make it interesting on any track, but I'm disappointed by the track's reduced technical difficulty.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


Funny how the whining riders ended up in the far end of the pack at the finish line


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

rallymaniac said:


> Funny how the whining riders ended up in the far end of the pack at the finish line


To be fair Anton had two flats. In his original post, he left the door open with 'let's hope this wears in'. I took it as commentary that he did not want to see a general reversal of the trend towards making courses more technical. I did not see his post 9 days out as whining. After he finished MSA with a torn sack I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. That's some street cred he can tap into for a while.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Was able to watch the women's race today. Neff was flying on the DH sections, way faster than the other girls based on watching. I don't think her tires were the issue. Kate was so steady and was climbing great and certainly had her issues with traction just like everyone else. Kate was just better on the day IMO.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

kevbikemad said:


> Was able to watch the women's race today. Neff was flying on the DH sections, way faster than the other girls based on watching. I don't think her tires were the issue. Kate was so steady and was climbing great and certainly had her issues with traction just like everyone else. Kate was just better on the day IMO.


do you have a link?

thanks


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## mysharona (Apr 15, 2019)

The world cup races are archived on redbull.com

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/tv/v...69e-f6ad-5209-8d70-3eff27fa5f69:live_programs

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/tv/v...69e-f6ad-5209-8d70-3eff27fa5f69:live_programs

Emily Batty acknowledged her poor showing posting on instagram. She blames overexertion and overtraining during the 2018 season. I think she also mentioned somewhere she is heavily focused on peaking for mt. st anne in september and then the olympics in 2020. Lofty goals indeed.

It's not unusual for racers to show less than ideal form at the start of a season, either in xc racing or in other sports. I don't know if this is a pattern for batty or not: I assume it isn't.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

thanks Mysharona


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Dave Mac said:


> do you have a link?
> 
> thanks


https://www.redbull.com/int-en/tv/v...-91b7-e6402bf82e79/womens-xco-finals-albstadt

Edit: looks like you already have it.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Maybe time to start looking into all the women's that have outed problem with stress, overtraining and so on. 

We have Maja, Rissveds, Batty and so on. The trend with upcommers like PFP, Rissveds and more young stars peaking at a young age and then problems, hope Kate is not it burning it to much.

For me the striking impact from U23 riders have put a high competition in the field and the small margins have accelerated the problem. Adding volume or intensity have got them to get quick results but maybe suffer longterm. 

Or other reflections?


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## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

Watching Neff vrs Kate I'll stick with my old argument that Neff is still spinning while others are hammering a bigger gear. Neff is still scary fast on the downhills she has amazing skills/courage watching her fly down that mud rear tire power sliding the corners my viewing buddy said "here comes crazy!"


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

plupp said:


> Maybe time to start looking into all the women's that have outed problem with stress, overtraining and so on.
> 
> We have Maja, Rissveds, Batty and so on. The trend with upcommers like PFP, Rissveds and more young stars peaking at a young age and then problems, hope Kate is not it burning it to much.
> 
> ...


Hard to say that burnout is only a problem in the women's field. I would actually say it is a way bigger issue in the men's field. Who other than Nino has performed with any kind of consistency in the last 10 years?

The reality is most riders have 1 maybe 2 years of magic and then they spend the rest of their career trying to find that combination again. To be at the top over multiple years is extremely rare. That is why since 2000 there has only been five riders who have won 10 or more world cups (Nino, Gunrita, Pendrel, Absalon, and Neff).

From what I understand Kate has a really good team behind her. Everybody she is working with has done this before. I think her form is being managed very carefully.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

LMN said:


> From what I understand Kate has a really good team behind her. Everybody she is working with has done this before. I think her form is being managed very carefully.


I'm no insider like you, but from the outside, I think there's evidence of this when you listen to her interviews. She seems to really be emphasizing consistency over any one race result now. I think that's a very Scott mindset, though I'm not sure if it's Nino or Frischknecht that drives it. Either way, it definitely seems like they want to be the team that shows up to every race.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

It really does seem like Kate Courtney has put herself into a great team setting her up for career success. From her polished interviews to her race tactics. Although polished no answer answers during interviews are boring when you've heard a zillion of them.


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## mysharona (Apr 15, 2019)

plupp said:


> Maybe time to start looking into all the women's that have outed problem with stress, overtraining and so on.
> 
> We have Maja, Rissveds, Batty and so on. The trend with upcommers like PFP, Rissveds and more young stars peaking at a young age and then problems, hope Kate is not it burning it to much.
> 
> ...


Langvad, 35: overtraining from off season road racing

Batty, 30: overexertion/burnout from the '18 season

Rissveds, 24: conflict with sponsors and swedish team, mental health and depression

That's three of the top five riders in women's xc.

I'm not sure who PFP is, and haven't heard much about Maja.



ewarnerusa said:


> It really does seem like Kate Courtney has put herself into a great team setting her up for career success. From her polished interviews to her race tactics. Although polished no answer answers during interviews are boring when you've heard a zillion of them.


Possibly. However, Rissveds had a near disastrous relationship with Scott, and hasn't raced again in World Cup since 2017 (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Hard to tell what the outcome will be. Most everyone believes Courtney had a great relationship with Specialized, yet she left abruptly, no 'thank you's' on the way out either.

Courtney did an interview with Velo or Pinkbike where she claims that Scott was in contact with her for half a year to a year, in effect grooming a relationship with her. In other pro sports, this is "tampering." Team officials are not allowed to contact players on other teams except during specific periods of free agency.

It seems like there are no such rules with pro mtb teams, so they didn't do anything "wrong" technically speaking, but it still seems a little shady to maintain long term contact with a rider on another team. Perhaps it was Courtney who reached out to them and didn't disclose that in her interviews?

Anyway, all of this is idle speculation. We don't really know what's going on behind the scenes.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Whoops, people already responded...

PFP had 4 World Titles in one year. Then fell apart.

https://www.velonews.com/2014/12/road/international-cyclist-year-pauline-ferrand-prevot_354256


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

There has been a lot of burn out and mental health issues, but I think it is a bigger issue that many people are facing. Add it the pressure of pro athletics in an endurance sport, the constant training... Some are going to be actual physical burn out, but it seems like many are more depressed with the modern issues of online life & health issues. 

There have been others not already listed. Maybe it is just the fact people are actually speaking about the issues now and more open? Young people seem to be in a difficult place and many get depressed. 

I always get a bit worried when a top XCO rider tries too much other racing, cyclocross in the fall or too much road in the spring. The fact MVDP is able to just keep going and going is amazing and kinda scary. I know he is young etc, but he is human (as far as we know). 

Nino has been pretty focused and I think it has paid off over his career. Attempted the road a bit, but didn't take it too far and I'm guessing he did it to round out some fitness more that a serious attempt to compete. Two years back during his perfect season, he was even saying that he was worried that he was not fresh at the last couple of races. 

The level of fatigue is so high, it's going to affect all parts of a persons health.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Money could have something to do with it. I'd imagine some of these guys/ladies are having a hard time making ends meet, and when the results aren't there its time to start looking for a real job.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mysharona said:


> Langvad, 35: overtraining from off season road racing
> 
> Batty, 30: overexertion/burnout from the '18 season
> 
> ...


I think we are going a bit far here on our speculation.

Langvad has had an amazing season by any measure. Yes, she struggled at the first race but it is only one race. And there is a cold going through the field right now. Let us not count her out just yet.

Emily has been off form all spring, but she was off form all of last spring too. And Emily has been racing forever, she has been a full time racer for the last 15 years. You race long enough you are going to get it wrong at some point.

As for Kate and Specialized riders switch teams for many reasons. Some times a team just isn't a good fit for them. Specialized is a big corporate team, pluses and minus to that.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Sam Gaze will be on the start line in #118.


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## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

Nino uploaded his power numbers from Albstadt to Instagram. They're madness!


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

NordieBoy said:


> Sam Gaze will be on the start line in #118.


Yes!  I just saw his IG post about it. He'll line up on Sunday for the XCO race. Not enough points to line up for the XCC.

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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Renzo7 said:


> Yes!  I just saw his IG post about it. He'll line up on Sunday for the XCO race. Not enough points to line up for the XCC.


Hope he completes the race without issue. Just to build confidence.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

NordieBoy said:


> Hope he completes the race without issue. Just to build confidence.


Definitely! He'd benefit considerably from a consistent and incident-free race after his last experiences. 

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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

mysharona said:


> I'm not sure who PFP is, and haven't heard much about Maja.


PFP is Pauline Ferrand Prevot.

Maja has been battling infections since the Cape Epic ended. Seems that she's more prone to them lately.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

rallymaniac said:


> Maja has been battling infections since the Cape Epic ended. Seems that she's more prone to them lately.


The cold hard reality of aging.

Things are just harder in your mid to late 30s. The special combination of train, rest, and body weight is narrower. Things that you got away with in your 20s you don't any more.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

LMN said:


> The cold hard reality of aging.
> 
> Things are just harder in your mid to late 30s. The special combination of train, rest, and body weight is narrower. Things that you got away with in your 20s you don't any more.


Yes, but you have other advantages. Experience, understanding of strategy, resilience to life stress, knowledge of your body. The list goes on. For aging athletes, I say to firmly reject the above type of thinking. You can destroy younger competition well into your late 30's/40's, with the right mindset.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

madfella said:


> Yes, but you have other advantages. Experience, understanding of strategy, resilience to life stress, knowledge of your body. The list goes on. For aging athletes, I say to firmly reject the above type of thinking. You can destroy younger competition well into your late 30's/40's, with the right mindset.


This is probably true for most of us, but for WC athletes I suspect there is less forgiveness.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

winters.benjamin said:


> This is probably true for most of us, but for WC athletes I suspect there is less forgiveness.


The performance of the older ladies in particular would contradict that.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

Sidewalk said:


> Whoops, people already responded...
> 
> PFP had 4 World Titles in one year. Then fell apart.
> 
> https://www.velonews.com/2014/12/road/international-cyclist-year-pauline-ferrand-prevot_354256


She didnt fell apart, big problem with her leg and last year they found the problem

and this was in her leg

__
http://instagr.am/p/Bv14nYcFVhr/

and 3 month after the surgery she is racing at top level, so you are bit unfair...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Is this a new Trek bike?

Hhmmm...










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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Yes, new bike. Someone in the comments at pinkbike shared some other photos.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-new-trek-xc-bike-nove-mesto-world-cup-xc-2019.html


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Is this a new Trek bike?
> 
> Hhmmm...
> 
> ...


This is the bike that spurred my question to LMN about the usefulness of a "soft tail" on the World Cup circuit given the rumors it has 25mm of rear travel. Really hoping those are crap and it's closer to 100.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Skarhead said:


> She didnt fell apart, big problem with her leg and last year they found the problem
> 
> and this was in her leg
> 
> ...


What is that?
An alien fetus?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

madfella said:


> Yes, but you have other advantages. Experience, understanding of strategy, resilience to life stress, knowledge of your body. The list goes on. For aging athletes, I say to firmly reject the above type of thinking. You can destroy younger competition well into your late 30's/40's, with the right mindset.


Easy to say harder to do.

My wife at 39 is now the fastest of the "old" athletes. She is really close to where she was in her prime, but those last 2 or 3kgs do not come off like they use to and those peak power numbers take a lot more work to achieve. Features involving risk are approached with a bit more hesitancy. The difference is small but it the difference between being a top 5 rider and being a top 12 rider.

Being in my early 40s I see it in myself. Particularly, when it come to risk aversion. I just am not comfortable with being as close to the edge as I was.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Did anyone made something off of Nino's power numbers?

At first notice they seemed quite strong, but on second analysis I found them quite underwhelming, not saying they aren't impressive, but I thought they would be higher.

Do you know if there are there any power data being shared from a top 20 women in the same race?

If anything, it seems it was quite tricky to put the power down on those conditions.


e.g.

His Np for a 2.30 climbing interval were:

NP 423W, 421W, 441W, 429W, 421W, 412W, 401W - avg 421w

Gives 6.2 W/kg


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TDLover said:


> Did anyone made something off of Nino's power numbers?
> 
> At first notice they seemed quite strong, but on second analysis I found them quite underwhelming, not saying they aren't impressive, but I thought they would be higher.
> 
> ...


The power numbers were low for the mens race.

One of the guys I coach had his career best ride with a 19th. His numbers for same climb were consistently around 410NP, and 390 average. 72kgs. His norm power for the race was 350ish. Earlier this year he did a race with a norm power of 375. The slippery conditions definitely reduced power outputs.

Womens: 12th place same climb was 250ishNP for a 52kg rider. Assuming Kate is 52kg, I would guess that she averaged 260-270 for same climb.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Link for redbull tv XCC starting in 10 minutes.

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/tv/l...215/mercedes-benz-uci-mountain-bike-world-cup


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

TDLover said:


> Link for redbull tv XCC starting in 10 minutes.
> 
> https://www.redbull.com/int-en/tv/l...215/mercedes-benz-uci-mountain-bike-world-cup


Thanks for the reminder, I always forget the xcc starts


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Annie Last needs to get some solid black shorts to go with her white UK champ jersey. The KMC-Ekoi-Orbea kit looks bad enough with the normal jersey but the white jersey puts it over the top.

Great effort by Chloe Woodruff. KC is way, way too uptight when she sprints. Got rolled by people whose heads were a foot lower than hers. 


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

What a ride by Chloe! Nice to see someone take a risk!


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

LMN said:


> What a ride by Chloe! Nice to see someone take a risk!


SO AWESOME!!!!!! Pivot is gonna be stoked!


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

zgxtreme said:


> This is the bike that spurred my question to LMN about the usefulness of a "soft tail" on the World Cup circuit given the rumors it has 25mm of rear travel. Really hoping those are crap and it's closer to 100.


I highly suspect it's a single pivot with a 68.9 degree HA to say it's "68"

Will have 90-100 rear and aim for sub 1900 frame/shock combo to best specialized and some other brands with similar designs. Dub crank and Stepcast to come in at 21 pounds no pedals.

This is what the market calls for these days. Anything else is kinda stupid.

It would not surprise me if this was only made in carbon (at least at first) and the top fuel is the aluminum bike.

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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Yeah it was crazy how the field couldn't (didn't want) chase her, specially since she is third overall. Amazing ride by Chloe. 

This feels like they are slowly rediscovering race tactics well known in road cycling.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

What is Avancini doing? Bad decision dude.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

LMN said:


> What a ride by Chloe! Nice to see someone take a risk!


Agreed, great for her, outstanding effort. I imagine she was able to get away cause she is not a top 3 racer, well played.


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

Keegan's up there right now, hope he's got legs for this last lap!


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

LMN: your guy Peter had a great race, with lots of camera time and shout outs from the commentary. That was a change from the previous week when his name didn't even get mentioned in the commentary for a career-best result that made the second page of results, while they were talking about several other riders on that page.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Circlip said:


> LMN: your guy Peter had a great race, with lots of camera time and shout outs from the commentary. That was a change from the previous week when his name didn't even get mentioned in the commentary for a career-best result that made the second page of results, while they were talking about several other riders on that page.


Incredible race. My phone is absolutely blowing up right now.

I am now slightly nervous about how my next four weeks is going to be. He arrives on monday for a 4 week training camp with me.


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## Udyr (Jul 29, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> KC is way, way too uptight when she sprints. Got rolled by people whose heads were a foot lower than hers.


I'm guessing you meant to say "upright" rather than uptight?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

LMN said:


> Incredible race. My phone is absolutely blowing up right now.
> 
> I am now slightly nervous about how my next four weeks is going to be. He arrives on monday for a 4 week training camp with me.


For the amount of work the group was letting him do on the front I was starting to get a little worried he'd be swarmed in the final lap and slide way back, but he held tough and defended his position fantastically to ensure only a few could come around him in the final minute. He squeezed out what was realistically the best possible outcome from the work he put in. The XCO should be a good course for him (I think). Crossing fingers and toes for Sunday.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Definitely. It was a spectacular result for their new Pivot Mach 4 SL, and Chloe raced impressively well.

Strong performance from MVDP again. I'm happy for his win because he's one of my favorite riders, but I worry that it was too much of an effort so close to Sunday. I hope he can win the XCO. 

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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

LMN said:


> That is why since 2000 there has only been five riders who have won 10 or more world cups (Nino, Gunrita, Pendrel, Absalon, and Neff).


Let's not forget about Christoph Sauser, 11 wins between 2001 and 2008


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

bananajoe said:


> Let's not forget about Christoph Sauser, 11 wins between 2001 and 2008


So easy forget just how good Sauser was.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Is it me or the camera shots were on point? Nice views of the action!!!


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Is it me or the camera shots were on point? Nice views of the action!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The coverage was set up great!


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

LMN said:


> What a ride by Chloe! Nice to see someone take a risk!


Exactly what I thought. Excited for her.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

LMN said:


> So easy forget just how good Sauser was.


That dude is something else. He came out of 'retirement' to contend the 2017 Cape Epic and handily beat teams with big marathon names: Platt, Lakata, Hynek, Avancini, etc. It was incredible to watch. Missed the top spot by a small margin to Nino's team. https://www.cape-epic.com/riders/the-2019-race/results (filter by 2017 results)

Interview with Sauser: https://www.cape-epic.com/news/923/sauser:-why-i-came-out-of-retirement/


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Wow. US women are on a role. Haily Batten won the U23 race today. Although she does live in Canada half the year....


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Chloe did one heck of a break. VDP tried something similar...except that they just about caught him at the line! TDF style.

Chloe looked to be on some really narrow tires?


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

I had the pleasure of meeting Chloe at the Oz Trails Epic last year. She is humble and down-to-Earth. So awesome to see her hard work pay off! She completely dusted the field. At the beginning of the race Bart said something like “it’s almost impossible to break away from the field”.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

It there somewhere to watch the U23 races?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> It there somewhere to watch the U23 races?


Only one place.
Live.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

NordieBoy said:


> Only one place.
> Live.


Well that sucks. I really needed an XC fix tonight.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Langvad is out acording to her instagram, but rissvids is in, so thats good (and bad)

gunna be great, 6pm womens, 915pm mens, then 11pm monaco GP, topped up the internet quota, i'm set for tonight.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

That was a race


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

yeah was a cracker! bit of a downer with the mechanicals, but thats racing.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Man that sucks for Tauber, so strong all day. Neff is such of a wildcard, if only she could climb like she decends. 

Super happy for McConnell and Smyth - great steady riding.


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

Holy smokes what a race. Courtney had a flat but was still there in the end to take the win. Tauber with an incredibly strong ride, and a devastating mechanical in the last lap dropping her to 10th. Enormous results for Rebecca McConnell and Haley Smith, Neff hanging in there in podium position before a last lap flat tire. Malene Degn's and Sina Frei's first podium.

What a weekend for the Americans, taking all the women's races, U23, ST, and XCO. Devastating for Tauber


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Interesting. The fastest lap of the women's race by a huge margin was done by Haley Smith on her last lap.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> Interesting. The fastest lap of the women's race by a huge margin was done by Haley Smith on her last lap.


She looks to be getting stronger each race!!!

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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

https://bikerumor.com/2019/05/24/spy-shot-nino-schurter-racing-prototype-maxxis-aspen-race-xc-mountain-bike-tires/

New tyres!


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Skarhead said:


> https://bikerumor.com/2019/05/24/spy-shot-nino-schurter-racing-prototype-maxxis-aspen-race-xc-mountain-bike-tires/
> 
> New tyres!


Bart and Rob were just talking about the new 2.4 tires on Nino's bike. I noticed some basically slick tires before the short track on Firday. The have almost no tread, must be running an insert probably and super low pressures. Weight for tires is no longer as a important thing I guess.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Blimey!


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

Great result at 8th for Ulloa Arevalo, he did well at some races in the US earlier this season. Good to see MVDP so happy to finally get that win


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## 04 F2000SL (Jun 17, 2008)

I saw his sprint finish!



dwperry said:


> Great result at 8th for Ulloa Arevalo, he did well at some races in the US earlier this season. Good to see MVDP so happy to finally get that win


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

mik_git said:


> Langvad is out acording to her instagram, but rissvids is in, so thats good (and bad)
> 
> gunna be great, 6pm womens, 915pm mens, then 11pm monaco GP, topped up the internet quota, i'm set for tonight.


NBC Gold package?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

j102 said:


> NBC Gold package?


na i have to use evil foxtel worse luck.


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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

NordieBoy said:


> Only one place.
> Live.


Actually Czech state TV was airing it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't avalable anywhere else.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Never mind all the congrats. How good is modern XC racing? Both the men's and women's race were spectacular.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

From the best all around cyclist in the world:

“For me, it is one of the biggest achievements for me winning a world cup in mountain bike is one of the toughest things I can do,” van der Poel.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

LMN said:


> Never mind all the congrats. How good is modern XC racing? Both the men's and women's race were spectacular.


It is amazing and Red Bull's production and delivery has got really good.


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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

zgxtreme said:


> It is amazing and Red Bull's production and delivery has got really good.


Maybe it's because it wasn't Red Bull production. It was CT Sport, Czech national TV. They have been doing TV coverage every year in NMnM from the start.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

JayDee81 said:


> Maybe it's because it wasn't Red Bull production. It was CT Sport, Czech national TV. They have been doing TV coverage every year in NMnM from the start.


Didn't know that, it was outstanding and I change my critique to; RedBull... do what they do!


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

mik_git said:


> na i have to use evil foxtel worse luck.


Ok. I was hoping for a review of the NBC Gold platform.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

LMN said:


> Never mind all the congrats. How good is modern XC racing? Both the men's and women's race were spectacular.


It is so good that it's pretty quickly converting my die hard runner fiancee into an aspiring XC racer. Waiting for races is like waiting for Christmas as a child.


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## Tim22 (Sep 11, 2010)

Gold package is the bomb! get it SX and Mx also


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

That final attack by MvP was just savage. Nino could barely respond. 

Was a straight up ankle-breaker crossover in basketball terms. 


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Or "dropping a watt bomb" in cycling terms.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

GCN would call it a Wattage Bazooka . I like the sound of that one.

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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

I think I'm still in a state of shock that someone rode Nino off their wheel like that. I keep replaying that wicked acceleration over and over again in my mind. I know it was bound to happen at some point, but still.....


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Nino and MvdP devastated the field. The difference over the rest they made was huge. 

I really echo LMNs quote on MvdP recognizing the effort to win an XCO WC race. 
Coming from a racer that is virtually unbeatable in CX and wins one day classics by shaking monument winners off his wheel, that is telling quite a lot. Well deserved and good to see open competition again.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Well deserved win by MDVP. Nino and him really decimated the field as Nino used to do alone. However on that attack by MDVP, Nino had absolutely nothing to respond, didn't even try for a few seconds. 

Such a shame for Tauber, it sure looked like she was gonna win. 

Rissveds a respectable 33th.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Nothing against the riders who were winning a lot in recent years, but it's really fun to see races where the outcome is so much in doubt. And it's so awesome to see racers that are pumped over career best results - even if it's not a win or podium finish.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

winters.benjamin said:


> I think I'm still in a state of shock that someone rode Nino off their wheel like that. I keep replaying that wicked acceleration over and over again in my mind. I know it was bound to happen at some point, but still.....


Anyone have a link to it. I can't find one online.

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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

bogeydog said:


> Anyone have a link to it. I can't find one online.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


https://www.redbull.com/int-en/events/AP-1XJS6F3JN2111


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Really disappointed to find out that Van Der Poel won't be in Snowshoe WV this year. I am planning on watching the race, and was looking forward to seeing him battle for a win in person.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

le_pedal said:


> Really disappointed to find out that Van Der Poel won't be in Snowshoe WV this year. I am planning on watching the race, and was looking forward to seeing him battle for a win in person.


I'm really hoping that Soldier Hollow gets a WC venue spot. It's pretty easy to access, a really fun track, and awesome for spectators too. Snowshoe, on the other hand, was not my favorite, to say the least.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Just got around to watching the Nove Mesto men’s race. 

1) Impressed by MvdP’s bike handling. Again. Kept pace with the best in the business. 

2) I wish they had better coverage of the attack. Probably didn’t anticipate anyone going in the feed/tech zone, so a lack of cameras there makes sense. He was broadcasting that he was about to go. But Nino couldn’t do anything at all when he went. No response. 


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Kinda a shame that van der Poel won. I mean, it sort of discredits the whole World Cup now.
Whoever wins overall (presumably Nino), the lingering notion is that if vdP had of contested them all, he would have won the overall.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

It is never a shame that a stronger rider wins and we can't speculate on that. Last week the story was completely different.

In the attack through the tech zone MvdP put 15 sec on Nino, in a 45 sec segment.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

madfella said:


> Kinda a shame that van der Poel won. I mean, it sort of discredits the whole World Cup now.
> Whoever wins overall (presumably Nino), the lingering notion is that if vdP had of contested them all, he would have won the overall.


It's not a shame that we have the pleasure of watching probably the best cyclist in the world right now (per Bart Brentjens) compete seriously in our sport before he goes to the road post-Olympics. I whooped out loud when he dropped that final hammer. It doesn't discredit anything about MTB that he found this more difficult to do than dominating Cyclocross.

I'm sure MVdP would contest the overall if his body didn't badly need a break.

Image if we got to see Sagan race elite World Cups. That wouldn't have been a shame either.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

Where is Howard Grotts? He’s hardly raced at all this year. 


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

I would not be so confident he will go all road after the olympics. He really seems to be enjoying the XC racing and the diversity of taking all disciplines is probably making him happier and thus less prone to burnout. I don't see him racing XC out of courtesy nor should the sport be humble and gratefull he is here.

If he doesn't sign a WTour contract binding him to road, we will probably see him all across, and he doesn't seem eager to sign anything out of Circus. 

If one is smart and can afford it, this switching back and forth is the best approach, and if you look at Canyon sponsoring him, they want him on all three bikes


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Well take in to account MDVP is in a better shape than most right now. Nino, Fluckiger, Avancini are all starting the season and far from their peak, coincidentally those WC MDVP will lose is where he would do his worst. 

Winning one WC is a good thing for him, consistently winning through the season would be more impressive, but he won't race all season.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

J-Flo said:


> Where is Howard Grotts? He's hardly raced at all this year.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Apparently Epstein-Barr virus took him out of racing and training for a while.He pulled out of the Cape Epic in March almost last minute and has raced very little since...


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## kylepeveto (Apr 25, 2006)

I have not heard anything of Grotts since he dropped out of the Cape Epic earlier this year. And I can't find any news, either.

https://www.velonews.com/2019/03/mo...epic-team-usa-for-pan-am-championships_485697


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I met Ulloa a couple years back in the 2015 Contiental Champs in Colombia, and he was already very fast. I could be wrong, but I think for a few years (and maybe this also) he based his Europe campaign on the Czech Republic...se he was basically at home...


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

One interesting and chaotic thing this past weekend was the starting procedure again. After the new start light system in Albstadt, for some reason they were gone from Nove Mesto where a whistle was used on Friday but apparently a fan with a whistle caused a false start, and after that fiasco, UCI resorted back to the good old start gun for Sunday races? 

I'm not sure what they're testing exactly but neither the lights nor the whistle works.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

rallymaniac said:


> but apparently a fan with a whistle caused a false start


If you're sabotaging a race, are you really a fan? I really hope that person was ejected. It's annoying for the racers in the front, and potentially dangerous for the racers in the middle of the pack start positions. I'm happy that nothing ultimately bad happened because of that.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

rallymaniac said:


> One interesting and chaotic thing this past weekend was the starting procedure again. After the new start light system in Albstadt, for some reason they were gone from Nove Mesto where a whistle was used on Friday but apparently a fan with a whistle caused a false start, and after that fiasco, UCI resorted back to the good old start gun for Sunday races?
> 
> I'm not sure what they're testing exactly but neither the lights nor the whistle works.


I have been a commissaire for MTB. We were trained to immediately start the race if there was a false start, and everyone was already staged (so basically in the last 30 seconds). So if someone blew a whistle, you blow the whistle to start the race as fast as possible.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

kevbikemad said:


> I have been a commissaire for MTB. We were trained to immediately start the race if there was a false start, and everyone was already staged (so basically in the last 30 seconds). So if someone blew a whistle, you blow the whistle to start the race as fast as possible.


And that is exactly what happened in Nove Mesto.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I was a bit dissappointed with the start light, bit of an anticlimax for sure, the whistle, well the was better (apart from the issue)...but back to good old start gun, much better... it was a Start, not an...off you go.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Looking at the replays from the races yesterday evening I started thinking about how different the riders are sitting on the bikes, some sit very upright. Specifically Mathias Fluckiger and Kate Courtney seem to be a lot more upright than the rest of the riders.

Is it a tradeoff to have better handling in the downhills or just a preference? Watching Kate Courtney sprint in the short track race looked really slow (well not slow compared to me, but still...)


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

It‘s just personal preference and anatomy in combination with bike geometry. Typically riders with short femurs tend to sit very upright. No rider will stay seated during the downhill.
Watching even elite level mountainbikers sprint seems awkward to me too. You can see that they are out of their comfort zone.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

TDLover said:


> And that is exactly what happened in Nove Mesto.


Yes, that is how it is to be handled.

I wonder if the starting light went away due to visibility issues? If some are not looking at the light or just can not see the light where they are lined up, or behind another rider etc.

For what it is worth, I generally look at the starters mouth if they have the whistle sitting in their mouth, when they close there lips to blow it, I go!


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## forrest_m (May 26, 2015)

Arrggh, so now what are we supposed to talk about for another month? Need More Races!


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

forrest_m said:


> Arrggh, so now what are we supposed to talk about for another month? Need More Races!


Ft William?


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I think Rob Warner had a great idea when he said Trek should supply jolanda Neff with a DH rig so she can race while she's at fort William watching her BF.


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## notsendy (Jul 11, 2018)

ewarnerusa said:


> I think Rob Warner had a great idea when he said Trek should supply jolanda Neff with a DH rig so she can race while she's at fort William watching her BF.


Would be interesting to see Neff try some enduro races too. XC fitness with downhill chops would be dangerous.


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

notsendy said:


> Would be interesting to see Neff try some enduro races too. XC fitness with downhill chops would be dangerous.


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/jolanda-neff-wins-downhill-south-east-round-2-1.html


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## notsendy (Jul 11, 2018)

jms said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/jolanda-neff-wins-downhill-south-east-round-2-1.html


It wasn't even a close race either. 15 secs to the next finisher.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

notsendy said:


> It wasn't even a close race either. 15 secs to the next finisher.


Not uncommon in women's DH, or when an elite racer shows up to a regional race.


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

The Proffix Swiss Bike Cup #4 Gränichen Women is live streaming right now at Swiss Sport TV youtube. Sina Frei and Joland Neff leading. Elite Men after.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

dwperry said:


> The Proffix Swiss Bike Cup #4 Gränichen Women is live streaming right now at Swiss Sport TV youtube. Sina Frei and Joland Neff leading. Elite Men after.


Nice, cheers


----------



## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Annika Langvad crashed on her MTB today and had a few breaks and a fracture 

More info and pics on her IG.

I hope she recovers quickly and completely. 

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Sam Gaze won a race in Spain...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Fabio Castañeda from Colombia caught doping...


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Nino won handily over a strong WC field, sans MvdP of course


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## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

jms said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/jolanda-neff-wins-downhill-south-east-round-2-1.html





notsendy said:


> It wasn't even a close race either. 15 secs to the next finisher.





Train Wreck said:


> Not uncommon in women's DH, or when an elite racer shows up to a regional race.


To add more perspective - the top two favorites at that race got hurt in practice and didn't race.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Just watched the women’s race from the Swiss Bike Cup #4. 

No joke, the woman who led for the first 6:00 or so was at least a foot taller than Sina Frei. Made Jolanda Neff look tiny, too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> Just watched the women's race from the Swiss Bike Cup #4.
> 
> No joke, the woman who led for the first 6:00 or so was at least a foot taller than Sina Frei. Made Jolanda Neff look tiny, too.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is that relevant to the WC discussion in any way? Perhaps you were gonna say something else about it.

btw

Sina Frei is having a great elite season, she will be fighting at the top, hopefully we can see a podium from her this season.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Just watched the women's race from the Swiss Bike Cup #4.
> 
> No joke, the woman who led for the first 6:00 or so was at least a foot taller than Sina Frei. Made Jolanda Neff look tiny, too.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks like Sina is 4' 11" and 101lbs.


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

TDLover said:


> Sina Frei is having a great elite season, she will be fighting at the top, hopefully we can see a podium from her this season.


She already was on the podium in Nove Mesto, taking 4th in her second ever elite women WC!


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

dwperry said:


> She already was on the podium in Nove Mesto, taking 4th in her second ever elite women WC!


Woah, yeah I wasn't paying attention. In previous UC 23 races I remember Sina and Kate battling it out and they were pretty even, so its good she is already being competitive.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

MvdP has posted the rest of his summer schedule. It concludes with the Road Race World Championships in England and the Tokyo Olympic MTB test event in October. He is not doing the MTB World Championships.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

^ yep.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mathieu-van-der-poel-to-target-yorkshire-road-world-championships/


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## exodus1500 (Jun 5, 2010)

I don't have a lot of knowledge about Olympic qualifying or anything like that, but a year ago I gave it a 20% chance that MvdP was going to end up doing the Olympics in road. I just felt like he was going to dab his feet and get better than expected results and make the switch.

The pessimist in me has upped that to 50%.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

exodus1500 said:


> I don't have a lot of knowledge about Olympic qualifying or anything like that, but a year ago I gave it a 20% chance that MvdP was going to end up doing the Olympics in road. I just felt like he was going to dab his feet and get better than expected results and make the switch.
> 
> The pessimist in me has upped that to 50%.


You're probably right. It will still be enjoyable to watch him go after the road title, but I'd prefer if he stuck to the original plan and chose the MTB race.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

exodus1500 said:


> I don't have a lot of knowledge about Olympic qualifying or anything like that, but a year ago I gave it a 20% chance that MvdP was going to end up doing the Olympics in road. I just felt like he was going to dab his feet and get better than expected results and make the switch.
> 
> The pessimist in me has upped that to 50%.


Couldn't he race both road and MTB at Olympics?
I would consider him a lock for a medal in MTB at the Olympics if he doesn't crash or mechanical.

I was really hoping he would race at MSA this year to see how that would go.


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## exodus1500 (Jun 5, 2010)

kevbikemad said:


> Couldn't he race both road and MTB at Olympics?
> I would consider him a lock for a medal in MTB at the Olympics if he doesn't crash or mechanical.
> 
> I was really hoping he would race at MSA this year to see how that would go.


Im not sure why he wouldn't, but them again, I am not sure why Sagan didn't in 2016 either. The races were 2 weeks apart.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

exodus1500 said:


> Im not sure why he wouldn't, but them again, I am not sure why Sagan didn't in 2016 either. The races were 2 weeks apart.


Sagan felt the Rio road course didn't suit him (too much climbing) When GVA won I think he regretted not racing.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Dunno about anyone else but I'll be sad to see Irina Kalentyeva retire, I was always a fan and got see her win the worlds in 09 was pretty cool.


----------



## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

Same. 

As an elite athlete, Irena always seemed to peak at the perfect time for the really big races such as Olympics and world champs, which was reassuring as an armchair supporter of hers  Another thing, Irena's pedal stroke is always mesmerisingly smooth.

I remember reading somewhere that - as a junior - Irena's coach used to make her train sprints on frozen lakes to develop her confidence and skills.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Maybe LMN can comment on this, I notice that both Anika Langvad and Emily Batty have been posting about trying to regroup and analyze how their preseason training and race form is not delivering what they expected. 

They both have a lot of experience with themselves as pro athletes and they have a support system, how do they get so far off the map with their training and prep without noticing, or without their support team commenting. Isn't there a fair bit of objective testing of performance during the training period that would catch a too early plateau or peak that would cost them early in the season? 

annika.langvad
Being sidelined with injuries is never easy, but it’s given me some time to try and understand why I haven’t felt like my old self in the races lately. 

emilybatty1
...This hasn’t been an easy journey after 11 years of constant improvements and having my best season ever in 2018, only to feel like I fell flat on my face and cracked wide open both mentally and physically. Realistically I should have taken an extended break and came back to training, but when it’s my job, I can’t just not show up to work. I think that’s probably the most frustrating part - putting in the same amount, if not more work than ever and getting worse, and worse, and worse.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

rockyuphill said:


> Maybe LMN can comment on this, I notice that both Anika Langvad and Emily Batty have been posting about trying to regroup and analyze how their preseason training and race form is not delivering what they expected.
> 
> They both have a lot of experience with themselves as pro athletes and they have a support system, how do they get so far off the map with their training and prep without noticing, or without their support team commenting. Isn't there a fair bit of objective testing of performance during the training period that would catch a too early plateau or peak that would cost them early in the season?
> 
> ...


I recall watching Batty's YouTube videos and her discussing all of the changes she made this year (diet and training). Also Langvad dipping her toes into road racing. I wonder if they both got ahead of themselves since they had an amazing year in 2018. Why change what got them there? Did they lose a bit of focus? It's odd because I think everyone thought they would be on the podium this year, but instead they're not even in contention.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

rockyuphill said:


> Maybe LMN can comment on this, I notice that both Anika Langvad and Emily Batty have been posting about trying to regroup and analyze how their preseason training and race form is not delivering what they expected.
> 
> They both have a lot of experience with themselves as pro athletes and they have a support system, how do they get so far off the map with their training and prep without noticing, or without their support team commenting. Isn't there a fair bit of objective testing of performance during the training period that would catch a too early plateau or peak that would cost them early in the season?
> 
> ...


Both of them are definately off.

Annika, I think, is pretty easy to see what happened. She focused on those early season road races and hoped to carry that form through the first world cups. Unfortunately cumulative fatigue caught up with her and she just wasn't there for those races. With what she knows now she might be able to make adjustments to make that schedule work, or it is a combination which just doesn't work.

Emily on the other hand I can do nothing but speculate. I know it is easy to get it wrong, I have with athletes I work with on numerous occasions. Two major errors that I have made are
1. Not enough rest at the end of the season.
2. Too much focus on "marginal gains." Those small things that make the difference between 10th and 1st (heat, altitude, diet, ect...) are only helpful if you have fundamentals in place.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

MI-XC said:


> I recall watching Batty's YouTube videos and her discussing all of the changes she made this year (diet and training). Also Langvad dipping her toes into road racing. I wonder if they both got ahead of themselves since they had an amazing year in 2018. Why change what got them there? Did they lose a bit of focus? It's odd because I think everyone thought they would be on the podium this year, but instead they're not even in contention.


Batty is visibly heavier than she was last year. I won't purport to know the state of her training, but even if she is as strong as last year, the denominator is not in her favor right now.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

They both seem burned out from the training / sport. 

As Emily said, taking time off which would be the solution isn't suitable for them due to contracts. Pretty damn bad hole they got in. 

I personally believe the best solution is scrapping this season off and aim for the next year, but good luck convincing your bosses of that.

"Hey boss, I'm pretty burnout from all the hard work you made us do, can I take a sabbatical year to rest up and come back?...Boss: sure minion, your job will be here waiting for you-said no boss ever"

In normal jobs that is when you quit and don't look back, been there done that.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Didn't Batty struggle at the start of last season? Not this bad, but she was not at the front and she seem frustrated & there was even some drama with Simon B etc. I do recall her saying last season that she had tried some new things in pre-season training that didn't work and she went back to training in a way they new did work for her & the rest of the season she was great.

Her recent post about working harder, but getting slower, that sounds like physical burn out / too much intensity. Probably trying too many new things, like LMN says looking for all the marginal gains.

She was so close last season, I can totally understand the desire to take that next step. 

She should probably just stick too what she knows works (like last season). I know she is coached by her husband, not sure that is a good idea. I hope she figures it out.

Annika is probably more just burnt from too much racing.


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## forrest_m (May 26, 2015)

TDLover said:


> I personally believe the best solution is scrapping this season off and aim for the next year, but good luck convincing your bosses of that.


While this might be the "smart" move, I think that where we are relative to the Olympics is a huge factor in everyone's calculations. I don't know the details for EB or AL, but depending on each athlete's national federation, there may be pressure to try to get results at certain specific events, regardless of how they are actually feeling.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

forrest_m said:


> While this might be the "smart" move, I think that where we are relative to the Olympics is a huge factor in everyone's calculations. I don't know the details for EB or AL, but depending on each athlete's national federation, there may be pressure to try to get results at certain specific events, regardless of how they are actually feeling.


I think Anika is fairly safe in her Olympic spot.

Emily on the other hand is not. Right now Canada sits third in Olympic points rankings. Canada would be 1st or 2nd if Catharine hadn't gotten injured. If Emily was riding like she was last year and Catharine and Haley are performing at the level they are now Canada would move into 1st or 2nd, particuarly with the USA's Erin Huck, and Switzerland's Keller being injured. Only the top two nations send three to the Olympics.

Haley Smith pretty well locked down an Olympic spot with her 3rd at the last world cup. To be selected in front of Haley it is going to take a top 2 at a world cup or a top 5 at world championships.

Catharine is only going OK right now, her time of being consistently one of the best performers in the world is probably over. However, she can still get there for key races. And she does hold the all time win record at MSA.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

So, to clarify:

1) Olympic slots for countries finalized at end of 2019 season.

2) Countries use their own selection criteria, which can include the 2020 season.

Is that correct?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> So, to clarify:
> 
> 1) Olympic slots for countries finalized at end of 2019 season.
> 
> ...


Not quite.
Selection period for countries is . May 28 2018 to May 27 2020.

Country selection criteria is set by federations.

For example

USA: 
1. Victory at the 2020 UCI World Cup opener in Nove Mesto (May 24, 2020)
2. Victory at the 2019 UCI world championships in Mont-Sainte-Anne (September 10, 2019)
3. 2nd-8th place at Nove Mesto (one rider per gender)
4. 2nd-8th place at Mont-Sainte-Anne (one rider per gender)
5. Top-10 overall in the final 2019 World Cup rankings
6. discretionary selection process

Canada:

Women:
Priority 1: Athlete finishing top 5 in the Elite XCO at the 2019 MTB XCO
World Championship. If more than one rider meets this criterion, only
the highest placed rider shall be selected.
• Priority 2: Athletes finishing top 12 in an Elite World Cup XCO in Europe
or Elite XCO World Championship*.
• Priority 3: Athletes finishing top 3 in a U23 World Cup XCO in Europe or
U23 XCO World Championship*.
• Priority 4: Nomination by the Head Coach based on Clause 10 of the
General Selection Criteria (see Appendix 1).

Men:
• Priority 1: Athlete finishing Top 5 in the Elite XCO at the 2019 MTB XCO
World Championship. If more than one rider meets this criterion, only
the highest placed rider shall be selected.
• Priority 2: Athletes finishing top 16 in a World Cup XCO in Europe or Elite
XCO World Championship*.
• Priority 3: Athletes finishing top 3 in a U23 World Cup XCO in Europe or
U23 XCO World Championship*.
• Priority 4: Nomination by the Head Coach based on Clause 10 of the
General Selection Criteria (see Appendix 1).
* Tie breaker: best single result; if still tied, Head Coach breaks tie


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## Rist (Oct 15, 2009)

LMN said:


> Right now Canada sits third in Olympic points rankings.


Where can I see the current rankings list?


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

She finished 28th and 38th at Albstadt and Nove Miesto this season. She is struggling to finish in the top half of the field. To put this in perspective, she finished 5 spots behind Jenny Rissveds at Nove Miesto, who hasn't raced in two years.

Last season she was 13th and 4th in those two races.



kevbikemad said:


> Didn't Batty struggle at the start of last season? Not this bad, but she was not at the front and she seem frustrated & there was even some drama with Simon B etc. I do recall her saying last season that she had tried some new things in pre-season training that didn't work and she went back to training in a way they new did work for her & the rest of the season she was great.
> 
> Her recent post about working harder, but getting slower, that sounds like physical burn out / too much intensity. Probably trying too many new things, like LMN says looking for all the marginal gains.
> 
> ...


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

https://www.uci.org/mountain-bike/rankings

Elite Women XCO, National Ranking

1	SWITZERLAND 4165
2	UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 4080
3	CANADA 3436
4	NETHERLANDS 3170
5	DENMARK 3089
6	UKRAINE 2632
7	GERMANY 2552
8	SOUTH AFRICA 2409
9	POLAND 2336
10	ITALY 2199
11	FRANCE 2171
38	PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA 570
49	JAPAN 414

China isn't making the effort that they did prior to the 2008 Olympics, and the host country is well down the points in 49th.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

rockyuphill said:


> https://www.uci.org/mountain-bike/rankings
> 
> Elite Women XCO, National Ranking
> 
> ...


It's incredible USA is in second, congratulations on such feat.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

I'm impressed that Denmark is in 5th, considering it is a country with only 6 million people and not a single mountain.


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## JoelGuelph (May 20, 2010)

Any MTBer podiums at the various RR Nats over the weekend?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

TDLover said:


> They both seem burned out from the training / sport.
> 
> As Emily said, taking time off which would be the solution isn't suitable for them due to contracts. Pretty damn bad hole they got in.
> 
> ...


worked for Kawhi Leonard.

I am a big fan of Racing into form and having fun and taking my licks. Are you stating she should ease off the training and not race or just not keep digging a training hole and show up to the WC?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

So...back to back WC races coming up!!! Gerhard Kershbaumer has fired two warning shots. Who else do you see coming in hot to the races?

As for the women, I can be horribly wrong, but my guess is KC will not repeat the feat of two straight WC victories...

Who do you got?


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

carlostruco said:


> So...back to back WC races coming up!!! Gerhard Kershbaumer has fired two warning shots. Who else do you see coming in hot to the races?
> 
> As for the women, I can be horribly wrong, but my guess is KC will not repeat the feat of two straight WC victories...
> 
> Who do you got?


Yeah, man!

I think Lars and Gerhard are looking strong. I hope to see Mathias Flueckiger up there, too.

For the women, Yana and Jolanda might show up strong, and I'd love to see Emily back on form. I think Emily will take a few more races to get back, though, considering the short time since she posted about her performance.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

So fun to speculate. I think things are going to look different after the 5 week break.

Men: I think Nino, and Gerhard are going to be battling for the win. Vanderpoel a bit off in third.

North Americans: Perhaps a little bias here but I think Peter Disera can crack a top 10 at an XCO.

Women: In my opinion rider to beat is Yana. I think Kate is not packing the same form that she did in the spring. Joland will be good but I do not think on winning form, *yet*. Tauber will also be a

Dark horse: Haley Smith. Not sure Haley has the confidence to win one yet, but her racing style works well at altitude.

North Americans:
Erin Huck, injured. Chloe, rumour to be missing these rounds. Catharine better then the last rounds but not yet a podium rider. Emily, not a clue. Leah Davison, could be in the top 10.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> So fun to speculate. I think things are going to look different after the 5 week break.
> 
> Men: I think Nino, and Gerhard are going to be battling for the win. Vanderpoel a bit off in third.
> 
> ...


How hard did Catherine push at Carson City? I imagine that Kate was not full throttle. Chloe? Hard to tell, if she's not going to race. Not everything is what it seems.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Isn't MVDP going to miss 2 races right now and another one later in the season? 

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

jrob300 said:


> How hard did Catherine push at Carson City? I imagine that Kate was not full throttle. Chloe? Hard to tell, if she's not going to race. Not everything is what it seems.


Everybody was pretty well full throttle during race.

Kate was in trouble on the climbs at the end of the race. She was getting tailed and then would bridge with some aggressive descending.

It is really rare that a rider is at the top for an entire season. Even among the greats in the sport they usually have a couple of races during the season where they are off a bit.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> Everybody was pretty well full throttle during race.
> 
> Kate was in trouble on the climbs at the end of the race. She was getting tailed and then would bridge with some aggressive descending.
> 
> It is really rare that a rider is at the top for an entire season. Even among the greats in the sport they usually have a couple of races during the season where they are off a bit.


Well, I guess that means that a genuine congrats are out to Rose. A legitimate win against formidable competition. She's worked her tail off to get back in shape after some very real setbacks. I'm sure Catherine is starting to feel how much of a factor age is on healing and recovery. God knows I am....


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

LMN said:


> Everybody was pretty well full throttle during race.
> 
> Kate was in trouble on the climbs at the end of the race. She was getting tailed and then would bridge with some aggressive descending.
> 
> It is really rare that a rider is at the top for an entire season. Even among the greats in the sport they usually have a couple of races during the season where they are off a bit.


Hmmm, Carson City was and Andorra is at altitude. Should be an interesting weekend.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Given that some people “train through” a race, and that KC might have had a brutal training schedule leading up to Carson City, I wouldn’t put a huge amount of stock in that result. I believe she indicated as much in an IG post. 


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

MvdP will be riding Canyon bikes for at least the next 4 years. He signed a new 4 year endorsement deal with them.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Smart business decision...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

jrob300 said:


> Well, I guess that means that a genuine congrats are out to Rose. A legitimate win against formidable competition. She's worked her tail off to get back in shape after some very real setbacks. I'm sure Catherine is starting to feel how much of a factor age is on healing and recovery. God knows I am....


Rose is really good at that style of racing. All the girls know that if the race is long climbs at altitude she can match anyone.

Age is a funny thing. Anybody who says isn't a factor never raced at their peak when they were younger. But the differences that age makes are small, the way I describe it everything is just a bit harder.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> Age is a funny thing. Anybody who says isn't a factor never raced at their peak when they were younger. But the differences that age makes are small, the way I describe it everything is just a bit harder.


Lol. After a life made up of professional Superbike racing, road bike racing, ultramarathoning and most recently MTB riding and racing, I too once had a similar opinion. Then I hit my mid 50's. Hopefully they'll be kinder to you than they were to me. What used to take weeks, now takes months, perhaps years, depending on the setback, and I've completely let go of the expectation that I'll ever be able to compete with my younger self after doing so for over 30 years.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

BTW, LMN, I meant no disrespect whatsoever to Catherine. My wife and I have enjoyed years of watching her race at the highest level. Rather, I figured if anyone could appreciate what Rose has had to battle through as she ages, it would be her.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Is MVDP racing this weekend? I thought he was done for a while.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Age isn't kind, however if there is one sport where age doesn't matter as much is cycling, a sport where you can be at your peak at age 40. Of course from there is a down slope, but that is what I call living.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

kevbikemad said:


> Is MVDP racing this weekend? I thought he was done for a while.


I think he's out for this one, the next one, and the World Championship to give himself some rest.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

jrob300 said:


> Lol. After a life made up of professional Superbike racing, road bike racing, ultramarathoning and most recently MTB riding and racing


Very similar to a friend of mine. Pro road racer turned ultra runner, to MTB endurance (24 hour), to endurance road riding (24 hour).


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

That XCC track looks painful!!! What a great ride from Keller!!! 


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

The short track races were great, impressive ride by Keller.

Even more impressive Neff finally winning a short track and out sprinting two powerful riders. 

Super stoked for Ulloa Arevalo having a terrific season against all odds. Somehow they managed to secure funds to race this xco season and he is having a phenomenal one.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

With Woodruff gone these next two rounds, that will seriously compromise the ability of the US to get the full three spots at the 2020 Olympics. 

Not good. 


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Not good.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Depends on what country you are from 

With both Catharine and Emily looking like they have form returning things are looking better for Canada to get three spots.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Just watched the women’s XCC. 

KC took a bad line, trying to go to the right of Keller over the flyover. In the only area where she’d be impeded by the 2x1s nailed to the surface. Hopefully she won’t do this in the XCO. 

Also, she continues to be about as aero as a small bus when she sprints. Way too upright. Less passenger vehicle, more Caleb Ewan. 


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> Just watched the women's XCC.
> 
> KC took a bad line, trying to go to the right of Keller over the flyover. In the only area where she'd be impeded by the 2x1s nailed to the surface. Hopefully she won't do this in the XCO.
> 
> ...


You can always let her know in her instagram, I know she reads the comments.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

TDLover said:


> You can always let her know in her instagram, I know she reads the comments.


I'd hope she has more trusted advisors than random IG followers to steer her along. I'm guessing Frischi will address both.

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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> With Woodruff gone these next two rounds, that will seriously compromise the ability of the US to get the full three spots at the 2020 Olympics.
> 
> Not good.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What was the reason? I didn't see anything on her social media


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

IAmHolland said:


> What was the reason? I didn't see anything on her social media


I'm guessing it's because she has to pick and choose where to race, for budget reasons. Meaning, Pivot-Stan's will contribute $XYZ funds to her racing calendar, and that won't cover a full WC campaign.

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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

I agree with the comment about the poor line choice the poor sprinting form for KC. But most importantly (IMO), she tried to wind up too big a gear for the flyover -- one gear lower and both the line and the lack of aero form wouldn't have mattered. Fix all 3 and she gets air off the flyover (well, maybe not ) but she sure will win most any sprint. She often looks to be in a too big of a gear (IMO), and usually I would go with the "just better for her" explanation, but sprinting needs the right gear and over-geared is every bit as bad as under-geared. Usually Neff is under-geared (again, IMO) but this time she got it right.

(I'm certainly not an expert -- my credentials stem from being a slightly better sprinter than I am at other aspects of racing and from watching far too many pro road sprint finishes on youtube -- the only part of road racing that is remotely interesting to watch.)



Le Duke said:


> Just watched the women's XCC.
> 
> KC took a bad line, trying to go to the right of Keller over the flyover. In the only area where she'd be impeded by the 2x1s nailed to the surface. Hopefully she won't do this in the XCO.
> 
> ...


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

Ptor said:


> But most importantly (IMO), she tried to wind up too big a gear for the flyover


I noticed that as well in her recent WC races (never watched her before). I hope her coach goes over that with her.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> I'm guessing it's because she has to pick and choose where to race, for budget reasons. Meaning, Pivot-Stan's will contribute $XYZ funds to her racing calendar, and that won't cover a full WC campaign.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And yet they sent Sofia Gomez Villafane. The plot thickens....


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jrob300 said:


> And yet they sent Sofia Gomez Villafane. The plot thickens....


I won't pretend to know the specific details of their individual contracts, but I'd speculate that each of them has a total amount of travel/support money allocated to them, and it is up to them to spend it as they see fit.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> I won't pretend to know the specific details of their individual contracts, but I'd speculate that each of them has a total amount of travel/support money allocated to them, and it is up to them to spend it as they see fit.


Wouldn't she be eligible for an Olympic spot? I bet there are other reasons apart from money for not attending this WC.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> I won't pretend to know the specific details of their individual contracts, but I'd speculate that each of them has a total amount of travel/support money allocated to them, and it is up to them to spend it as they see fit.


Maybe... but I'd be surprised. Sponsors usually have an opinion (!) about who represents them, when and where. It's all about the money and riders are NOT the best judge.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

TDLover said:


> Wouldn't she be eligible for an Olympic spot? I bet there are other reasons apart from money for not attending this WC.


She (Woodruff) is well ahead of Lea Davison, Erin Huck, etc. right now. And I'd argue more likely to meet one of the selection criteria than any other US rider aside from KC.

Also, she made FAR more money racing the Carson City Off Road than she'd make at a World Cup, even if she won. Yes, KC raced there, then jetted over to Andorra, but again, different program and I'm guessing a vastly different level of support.

To put it simply: these athletes are looking after their bottom line and making the best use of their time. With not-unlimited resources, they have to figure out how to maximize their income, improve or solidify their starting positions for future WC races and keep the travel funds in the positive.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> I won't pretend to know the specific details of their individual contracts, but I'd speculate that each of them has a total amount of travel/support money allocated to them, and it is up to them to spend it as they see fit.


I am pretty sure that US cycling is covering all of Chloe's expenses at world cups.

Her missing the races is odd, but given the US cycling criteria for the Olympics it sort of makes sense. According to the US selection criteria the only races that really matter are 2019 World Championships and 2020 Nova Mesto. My guess is the Chloe has decided to get a good training block in to make sure that she has a really good form at worlds this year.

As I said for Chloe it sort of makes sense. She has always been a rider who when she is on, is on, but has had problems maintaining a consistent high level of performance.

I happen to know Chloe quite well and she would be the last person who is "looking at her bottom line"


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> I happen to know Chloe quite well and she would be the last person who is "looking at her bottom line"


Thank you.....


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Ptor said:


> I agree with the comment about the poor line choice the poor sprinting form for KC. But most importantly (IMO), she tried to wind up too big a gear for the flyover -- one gear lower and both the line and the lack of aero form wouldn't have mattered. Fix all 3 and she gets air off the flyover (well, maybe not ) but she sure will win most any sprint. She often looks to be in a too big of a gear (IMO), and usually I would go with the "just better for her" explanation, but sprinting needs the right gear and over-geared is every bit as bad as under-geared. Usually Neff is under-geared (again, IMO) but this time she got it right.
> 
> (I'm certainly not an expert -- my credentials stem from being a slightly better sprinter than I am at other aspects of racing and from watching far too many pro road sprint finishes on youtube -- the only part of road racing that is remotely interesting to watch.)


It's easy to armchair quarterback isn't it? 

Everyone sprints differently and a big gear may be a better choice for her but not for you. It certainly is the ideal gearing choice for my physiology. My sprint starts at 50rpm and hits at 1600 and slowly tapers. That won't work in the gear choice of someone who winds their sprint up and builds watts.

The big mistake was just being behind Keller for the last half lap,l. Who knew she would let that massive gap form and block Kate. That stuff happens and sometimes you get on the wrong wheel.

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

FJSnoozer said:


> It's easy to armchair quarterback isn't it?
> 
> Everyone sprints differently and a big gear may be a better choice for her but not for you. It certainly is the ideal gearing choice for my physiology. My sprint starts at 50rpm and hits at 1600 and slowly tapers. That won't work in the gear choice of someone who winds their sprint up and builds watts.
> 
> ...


It's not "armchair quarterbacking" to observe that she is visibly higher than her opponents, and thus has a lower W/CdA than them, resulting in lower top end.

Obviously she believes in aerodynamics; she's wearing a helmet with the vents covered in the middle of one of worst heat waves Europe has experienced. I hope she fixes it, because she's a great talent and should be a legit contender for medals for next decade.

Now, does it matter? Maybe not now. It's just a short track race. But her sprinting position could very easily be the difference between a medal at a bigger event later on in her career. A certain Kiwi lost last year by the skin of his teeth because he stuffed up the sprint.

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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> It's not "armchair quarterbacking" to observe that she is visibly higher than her opponents, and thus has a lower W/CdA than them, resulting in lower top end.
> 
> Obviously she believes in aerodynamics; she's wearing a helmet with the vents covered in the middle of one of worst heat waves Europe has experienced.
> 
> ...


I'm talking about gearing selection.

Did you even read my post beyond the first line?

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

FJSnoozer said:


> I'm talking about gearing selection.
> 
> Did you even read my post beyond the first line?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You quoted his entire response. If you don't disagree with all of it, only quote that with which you disagree.

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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> only quote that with which you disagree.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you fvking serious?

There.

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

FJSnoozer said:


> Are you fvking serious?
> 
> There.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh. Ok.

Anyways, anyone have any updated predictions for XCO tomorrow?

KC looked pretty good in XCC and I think her Carson City Off Road result was actually a great result given her normal training focus. I also think Keller will suffer more with the bigger climbs as the XCO race gets into the late laps. She's a much bigger rider and the longer climbs should wear on her in the latter half of the race.

I don't see anyone other than Neff beating KC tomorrow unless she has a mechanical.

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## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

Le Duke, I can suggest someone who can beat Kate tonight. Belomoina. Is everyone forgetting how much climbing there is on this course, at altitude. I've got...
1. Yana
2. Neff
3. Kate


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

You can add Julie Bresset, Alexandra Engen and a few other one to the list.

I like the parallel between MTB an tennis. In both sports, women tend to reach the top in their early twenties; the men in their late twenties. My bet is that these 5-6 years of maturity make a huge differences on how they handle success, pressure and fame.

And also both sports have been dominated by three men (Nino, Absalon, Kulhavy, and Federer, Nadal and Djokovic) for what seems like a thousand years. Athletes who wouldn't handle pressure didn't even stand a chance to reach the top.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

The women burnout rate is striking and while I used to think of it as worrying now I think it is what is is. Top women in the elite field pay a higher price in their well being than their male counterparts and I guess they have to live with it (short term success). 


The analogy with tennis is a great one, its surprising how these two different sports relate when it comes to showing off the limits of performance, specially between male and women. 

History has shown us how in the male field very few athletes dominate the sport for a great part of their professional career, while in the women field top athletes come and go rather fast. 

There is one major difference though, unlike women tennis, in which the sport view ability is severely impaired due to male superiority in game, xco women is actually fun to watch. The difference between the male and women field is basically just lap time speed and to the viewer is not very apparent in the current xco format.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Oh, that last lap! Smashing it.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Nice race, a lot of surprises. 

Terpstra first, Campuzano fourth, Rissveds back on podium and KC blowing out. 

Neff and Yana race's were kind of expected, Neff doing a solid season.



Edit: Podium was actually only top 3, sucks for Campuzano and Rissveds.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> KC looked pretty good in XCC and I think her Carson City Off Road result was actually a great result given her normal training focus.


Apparently Carson City was fairly predictive of current form.

Great to see Catharine at the front for a while but boy did she ever pay for it.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

LMN said:


> Great to see Catharine at the front for a while but boy did she ever pay for it.


Yeah she wa slooking good there for a while, I was cheering... but just like everyone else who led in the first few laps...


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

That was an extremely exciting race, even by women's elite XCO standards.

Terpstra was aggressive from start to finish. Great ride. 

And Rissveds!! WOW. From 59th to 5th, including losing 15 secs getting caught behind a crash after the start. Her post race interview was extremely sobering. I hope this result bring her a lot of happiness.

Bart'isms were also of high quality today  He is a total legend.
On Neff cheering Luca Shaw track side at the DH: "Actually, that doesn't sound like the best pre-race strategy, but they do say being in love gives you power!"
On his rider Belanmoina attacking for 3rd on the last lap: "Hmm, the real story is - can Jenny make the podium?!"


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

I agree, It was a good race to watch. I was a getting angry that they were following Terpstra from arial shots and basically boring coverage while the real exciting stuff was going on a few spots back with Belamoina and Rissveds....

Im also going to go out on a limb and say Neff doesnt look nearly as fast or composed on the downhill sections on the new Trek... She certainly didnt at the last round either. She is still fast, but I dont think nearly as fast as she was, even on the Hardtail.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Not going to lie, I shed a tear during Jenny's interview.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Wow, that mens race, yike's, more pain than I can take thats for sure.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Such a good race!!

Decent performances my North Americans.

Peter Disera with is best result in 11th. (I guess the last 4 week he spent riding with me paid off).

Keegan Swenson had an amazing ride in 18th. Actually he was one of the fastest guy on course for the last 3 laps.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Agreed, they were smoked and left nothing on that course.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Super inspirational racing from so many athletes! I greatly enjoyed this. 

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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

mysharona said:


> There's really no "solution" to this. It's just a reality given the emotional and physical differences between men and women.


While there are legitimate differences between men and women, it hardly has anything to do with the 2019 XC World Cup. If you'd like to lend your hand in wrangling a thread about how you're bitter KC didn't want to go on a date with you, please go ahead.

Back on topic:
Does anyone think that Neff was trying a new pacing strategy on for size? I'm not used to her going out so conservative, but it seemed deeply smart given the course conditions. One thing I *think* I've noticed with her though, is that she usually seems to be riding at her limit by the final lap. I'm only basing this on the fact that if she's in a lead group, she doesn't seem to be up for the attacks. Maybe memory isn't serving me well though.

On the men's side, watching Nino and Flueckiger rail the descents was pretty awesome. I'm really hoping that Matthias and MvdP help keep Nino racing, because this is definitely the most riveting men's racing in the past couple years. Sad to see Kerschbaumer wasn't quite there today.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Hmm... could’ve sworn there was racing this morning so I checked to see what everyone thought about it... and found all this.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

I'm very happy to have seen such great performances from the Mexican riders, Campuzano and Ulloa. I'm from Honduras, but I'm very happy to see other Latin countries represented well.

I hope to see some of our riders at one of these events one day. We're quite far behind in cycling in our country right now. 

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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

So what everyone thinks about the male race?

Very tactical, it was a shame about Cink blowing out, he was really strong on the climbs. Same thing as MDVP, last year I believe. 

I can't believe how fierce Avancini was, he was getting dropped and would bounce back out of nowhere. 

Fluckiger and Nino really battling it out for overall championship. 

I also wonder why Avancini hates Nino, the way he cut him off in the second to last lap was on purpose, not sanctionable, but clearly showed he doesn't care one bit for him, wonder what Nino did to him. Nobody else seems to have the same thoughts as Avancini on Nino, so I don't know what to make of it. 

My fellow countryman Ulloa Arevalo again getting a 6th position is terrific, can't believe it.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

TDLover said:


> So what everyone thinks about the male race?
> 
> Very tactical, it was a shame about Cink blowing out, he was really strong on the climbs. Same thing as MDVP, last year I believe.
> 
> ...


I didn't know you were from Mexico.

Here is some of the history on their beef:
https://marathonmtb.com/2019/03/18/avancini-on-nino-schurter/

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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

If you want to post about comparisons to other sports or mental illness due to sports, start up a new thread. please do not pollute this thread with Off Topic material. I deleted a bunch of pointless off topic posts.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Deleted, because no longer relevant.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TDLover said:


> I also wonder why Avancini hates Nino, the way he cut him off in the second to last lap was on purpose, not sanctionable, but clearly showed he doesn't care one bit for him, wonder what Nino did to him. Nobody else seems to have the same thoughts as Avancini on Nino, so I don't know what to make of it.
> 
> My fellow countryman Ulloa Arevalo again getting a 6th position is terrific, can't believe it.


Something happened at Cape Epic between the two. But to be fair in this case there was only two rideable lines on that section of trail, Nino tried to push Avancini off one and Avancini closed the door. That is just good racing at that point.

Great ride by your countryman, and countrywomen. Best day ever for Mexico at WCs?


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

LMN said:


> Great ride by your countryman, and countrywomen. Best day ever for Mexico at WCs?


Best result ever indeed.

Campuzano has had a few seasons, but lately she has been doing better. She has always been privately funded as far as I'm concerned.

Ulloa Arevalo on the other hand is a young man (22) who was given a chance by local sponsors and has paid off so far.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TDLover said:


> Best day indeed.
> 
> Campuzano has had a few seasons, but lately she has been doing better. She has always been privately funded as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Ulloa Arevalo on the other hand is a young man (22) who was given a chance by his Mexican state (Guanajuato) to race in Europe and it has paid off. It's nice to see for once public funds helping young athletes in this way.


Campunano is a rider who I have expected a result like this a couple of years ago. I know Catharine has always said that she was really fast.

Ulloa Arevalo is seriously fast. It is going to be a tough go for him to get an olympic spot next year though. The Mexican federation is going to need to send some riders to some stage races to grab some points.

Edit: Actually when I read the criteria in more detail he should good for an Olympic spot as long as Canadian men keep performing.

"Only NOCs which did not qualify quota places through the UCI Olympic Qualification ranking can qualify through the Elite Cross-country Olympic Individual results from the 2019 Continental Championships."

As long Canada stays in the top 21 nations then Mexico should get a spot because Ulloa was second at Panams.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Bart tries to be neutral about his team riders, but end's up not giving a sh** about them with the commentary at all  

Also, the endless talk about racing, recovering, blowing up at altitude was getting pretty exhausted  But racing was awesome and ohboy was Rissveds commentray emotional


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

LMN said:


> I think Peter Disera can crack a top 10 at an XCO.





LMN said:


> Peter Disera with is best result in 11th.


You were 2 seconds off being correct.


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## BermudaBrown (May 28, 2012)

I'm still here in Andorra... was pretty blown away (though Peter D had said this) that the U23 race actually pulled a higher average speed than the Elite Men (yes, I know there is a difference of one lap). The U23 men went off like dynamite.

Was right there shouting at Catharine once she had committed to going for it - I don't think there's any looking back at that point. She was also very impressive in the short track for those who were lucky enough to be there in person.

Given that my athlete had already raced it got a little too hot on the mountain to stay in person for the Men's race.

I can tell you that Neff went as deep as she could on the last lap to seal the deal. Have never heard her breathing quite as raggedly as she was in the last half lap. Would assume that Nino had to do the same thing to make his win happen.

Avancini very impressive. Kerschbaumer is coming on, in my opinion, from simply watching body language out on course. Watch for him, potentially, next week though I, like everyone else, don't have intel on the course until we get there.

We have some lessons learned here that were already learned domestically, but now need to be re-learned at the top level. You'd be amazed, if you had the opportunity to be here, how much that is true. The game doesn't change - it just gets tougher!

I think Canada should be cheering very hard for Catharine. She is obviously largely 'back' - if she doesn't pay in the short term too much for yesterday I think she'll also be a force at the next course, if there are no major course surprises.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

bikeranzin said:


> Does anyone think that Neff was trying a new pacing strategy on for size? I'm not used to her going out so conservative, but it seemed deeply smart given the course conditions. One thing I *think* I've noticed with her though, is that she usually seems to be riding at her limit by the final lap. I'm only basing this on the fact that if she's in a lead group, she doesn't seem to be up for the attacks. Maybe memory isn't serving me well though.


In her interview, she said that the other racers went out so fast, that she knew it wasn't sustainable. So she said she paced it a bit, but ended up going too slow, and had to burn too much energy to catch back up, and ultimately didn't have enough energy to win.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Don't know if anyone saw what happened to Ondrej Cink, but pointing at his heart and stopped for almost 2 minutes in the pit while in the lead. If you look at his Strava file you see some insane HR numbers, perhaps some sort of Tachycardia?
https://www.strava.com/activities/2512250535/analysis/2841/3708

It seems like this isn't the first time it's happened:

__
http://instagr.am/p/6zFqxGtmEy/


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> Edit: Actually when I read the criteria in more detail he should good for an Olympic spot as long as Canadian men keep performing.
> 
> "Only NOCs which did not qualify quota places through the UCI Olympic Qualification ranking can qualify through the Elite Cross-country Olympic Individual results from the 2019 Continental Championships."
> 
> As long Canada stays in the top 21 nations then Mexico should get a spot because Ulloa was second at Panams.


I'm not from Mexico but I'm friends with Daniela Campuzano and her trainer/partner. She is privately funded, but supported (not sponsored) by Specialized in Mexico. And she did qualify and raced in the 2016 Rio Olympics due the her result in the 2015 CC in Colombia.

Mexico had a plan for Ulloa and the 2019 Continental Championships, and they almost succeed. Raphael Gagne wrecked that plan for them on the last lap of the race...Still, Ulloa has been getting results since the 2015 CC in Colombia, albeit @ Continental level until 2017-2018 when he started getting more experience at the WC level. Watch out for that kid. He has arrived...


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

So proud of my fellow Brazilian Henrique Avancini. It was his best WC weekend to date, winning the XCC and taking the 3rd place on Sunday. Great result indeed. I mean, this was unimaginable for a Brazilian a couple of years ago.


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## bikeguy0 (Aug 5, 2007)

I get it with the altitude, but as someone that lives at 5700 feet and almost all of my MTB races are at 8000 feet and up it got pretty annoying listening to the commentary.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Has to be a problem he has had previously


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

pinkpowa said:


> Don't know if anyone saw what happened to Ondrej Cink, but pointing at his heart and stopped for almost 2 minutes in the pit while in the lead. If you look at his Strava file you see some insane HR numbers, perhaps some sort of Tachycardia?
> https://www.strava.com/activities/2512250535/analysis/2841/3708


That was a really major jump in HR. Interesting that he was able to keep it in the normal range once he had recovered.

The previous looks like it was at Val di Sole - so higher elevation race as well.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

bikeguy0 said:


> I get it with the altitude, but as someone that lives at 5700 feet and almost all of my MTB races are at 8000 feet and up it got pretty annoying listening to the commentary.


As someone who lives and races at sea level, it was interesting listening to the commentary.
The highest public road in the country is at 5,500ft.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> As someone who lives and races at sea level, it was interesting listening to the commentary.
> The highest public road in the country is at 5,500ft.


People worry about altitude too much. Racing at altitude just hurts more than sea level. As long as you are prepared for that and don't go too deep into the hurt locker you will race just fine.

That being said, spending three weeks at altitude prior to a race helps, not a huge amount but a bit.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

The attached chart measures the percentage of oxygen at various altitudes. Prolonged oxygen deficits do have an effect and greater physical activity at altitude can create physical problems. Simply look at people summiting Everest as a outlier: at 29,000, just being there can be deadly, even for a completely fit person (with or without supplemental oxygen). Temperature and barometric pressure also play into the amount of available O2 at any one altitude.

Unless Cink has a undiagnosed hear condition, he is an example of what happens when you become O2 depleted from pushing hard at high altitude.















I live at 7,000 feet with mountains tops around at 13,500. I have ridden and raced at these altitudes my whole life. When I go to a low altitude, the amount of red blood cells in my blood make me feel fantastic when I push hard. Ever notice how many olympic teams train at altitude? Might be something to it.


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## exodus1500 (Jun 5, 2010)

I don't really have much insight, but I have been looking into heart rate as i've become curious about it. I have a hard time getting mine up and I have some circulation issues. This is Keegans info vs Cinks. Is it telling/predictive that Cinks HR was slowly dropping down? Or is Keegans just super stable?


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

LMN said:


> People worry about altitude too much. Racing at altitude just hurts more than sea level. As long as you are prepared for that and don't go too deep into the hurt locker you will race just fine.
> 
> That being said, spending three weeks at altitude prior to a race helps, not a huge amount but a bit.


My experience with racing at low altitude (I live at ~1500m) is a bit different than just sensation though. It also seems to have a pretty big effect on repeatability. So, if my FTP is 300w @ 1500m, I could do X number of 360w 3min intervals before I could no longer recover. Accounting for altitude, and I seem to be a strong responder at around 7-10% at sea level, I can do 400w 3min intervals at sea level, but my time to exhaustion is also quite a bit longer.

Which, all considered, heavily impacts the way that I have to pace a race. At sea level, it seems like the way it's raced is all out, all the time. At mid elevation, that's not a very successful strategy. And for Winter Park this year, I'll probably have to attenuate my peaks even further.

While I'm certainly not elite, watching Andorra seemed to reward conservative pacing strategies as well. And I have confidence that the typical racers in the wc top-10 are really good at pacing in general.


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

bikeranzin said:


> At sea level, it seems like the way it's raced is all out, all the time. At mid elevation, that's not a very successful strategy. And for Winter Park this year, I'll probably have to attenuate my peaks even further.


I live at 6200 feet, and train/race at 8000-9000 feet. I once got the terrible idea to do a XC race in Florida, and yeah, the pace was crazy. Pretty much a full on sprint for 90 minutes. I did terribly, as there was no climbing to break things up (I'm use to settling in for 10-20+ minute long climbs), and I'm not use to just full out for that length of time. I have seen what can happen in the opposite situation, with a racer from that region trying to race XC at my home elevations, and they would go out way too hard and blow up rather quickly. The pacing between the two are just very different, especially if someone isn't prepared for those differences.

I'm still jaded... it blows my mind people have issues with racing at 6000 feet. I also consider 4000 feet to be "sea level" and have ridden/raced at 14,000 feet, so I'm not the best judge of how anyone else should feel as clearly my perception is beyond skewed. I just know I'll never race in Florida ever again!


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

XC racing in Florida is 900w+ holeshots in Cat 2/3 and the last one to blow up wins. I like the endurance stuff a little better for that reason, those guys start coming back after 2-3 hours.

I raced a little bit in CO last summer and did alright at 7k+ feet above sea level, made sure I paced the climbs right which probably comes from doing 6hr races back at 7 feet (yeah, seven). Didn't have the top end for sure but sure enjoyed not racing in 95% humidity.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I mostly train at 1000'. But I race exactly the same at sea level as I do at 8000'. Nothing different between the two. I race on RPE. I reference HR just to back up how I feel. Power is mostly ignored.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

https://www.ghost-bikes.com/en/ghost-factory-racing-team/

Very impressive by Anne Terpstra, she was very fast on the dh sections with the hardtail!


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

exodus1500 said:


> I don't really have much insight, but I have been looking into heart rate as i've become curious about it. I have a hard time getting mine up and I have some circulation issues. This is Keegans info vs Cinks. Is it telling/predictive that Cinks HR was slowly dropping down? Or is Keegans just super stable?
> 
> View attachment 1263375


Looks like a Tachycardia episode for Cink to me. Probably scared the heck out of him. I suspected that may be happening the way he pulled up and signaled.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

__
http://instagr.am/p/Bzn7LDsIdfC/

Tachycardia can be random and unpredictable. He said that he was feeling great; when he had the 30+ second gap he was only at 90% effort and ready to attack the last two laps. The poor guy was gutted, he really believed he could have won. Hopefully he can race next weekend and have a clean chance to show what he can do


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

dwperry said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bzn7LDsIdfC/
> 
> Tachycardia can be random and unpredictable. He said that he was feeling great; when he had the 30+ second gap he was only at 90% effort and ready to attack the last two laps. The poor guy was gutted, he really believed he could have won. Hopefully he can race next weekend and have a clean chance to show what he can do


I'd say it really looked like he could have podiumed. After letting up and the pit stop which took 90 seconds he came out hard and only finished 1:31? off the 1st. The entire cardiac event cost him about 2 full minutes.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Sidewalk said:


> I mostly train at 1000'. But I race exactly the same at sea level as I do at 8000'. Nothing different between the two. I race on RPE. I reference HR just to back up how I feel. Power is mostly ignored.


Do you notice any changes in HR or try to stay below a zone?

I havent been look at any HR in races lately becaue it makes me faster if I dont know how high I am (I have heard this form other pros as well).

These Texas Summers are a trip and HR is worthless. Our Density altitude is 4-5K feet in exposed sun and the heat index is over 100 F. My peak HR is 7-10 bpm higher, but the odd thing is on regular Fun MTB rides I will just sit at the Top end of Threshold HR (181) but might be riding at Tempo. Mind you there are no true Tempo power trails here because all climbs have neuro muscular efforts throughout.

I hit 203 on a TT lap in a race the other day. where my winter HR max will be about 189.

I am curious what to expect at Nationals in Winter Park.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

FJSnoozer said:


> Do you notice any changes in HR or try to stay below a zone?


Personally, I only make passing glances. Usually it is a "Am I going as hard as I think I am?", glance down and I am over LT and I think "yep". Or, "I think I can go harder than this right now", look down and see I am 15 beats below, and tell myself to ramp it up a little. That's about it.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Is it totally inconceivable that Cink’s HR monitor went haywire from a random signal or moisture from sweat in the battery chamber...especially since according to him (from above posts) he was feeling fine? I know mine zooms up to the default Garmin max of 230 every once in a great while, nothing to do with my actual heart rate.


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## exodus1500 (Jun 5, 2010)

It was either him or his coach being interviewed that said his heart rate went way up AND he had no power. 

Though I suppose it could theoretically have been a panic of seeing your heart rate numbers go up and then perceived legs being exhaustion.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Anyone know if when you have a bout of 230 bpm tachycardia like Cink did, does it just subside after a minute and then it’s ok to resume a WC winning pace? Not a serious medical condition worthy of getting checked out by a doc? Seems risky, but I’m ignorant on the topic.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

MattMay said:


> Anyone know if when you have a bout of 230 bpm tachycardia like Cink did, does it just subside after a minute and then it's ok to resume a WC winning pace? Not a serious medical condition worthy of getting checked out by a doc? Seems risky, but I'm ignorant on the topic.


It is serious to sustain the effort at that rate, imagine running your car at 8k RPM, it won't last long, same with the heart. He got it checked few months before and he was cleared.

Time will tell if his heart is okay or he has an undiagnosed issue, but it is scary stuff, wish him well.


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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

exodus1500 said:


> It was either him or his coach being interviewed that said his heart rate went way up AND he had no power.


It was the team manager iirc. Cink himself said he felt as if his heart wasn't beating at all. Not sure if he said anything about exhaustion related to the incident, other than that before it happened he was going 90 % and was ready to attack on the final 2 laps.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MattMay said:


> Anyone know if when you have a bout of 230 bpm tachycardia like Cink did, does it just subside after a minute and then it's ok to resume a WC winning pace? Not a serious medical condition worthy of getting checked out by a doc? Seems risky, but I'm ignorant on the topic.


About 6-7 years ago I had 2-3min of 205bpm (normal max 185) and once it'd settled, felt completely normal and haven't had it again.
Quite freaky in the middle of a race feeling your heart hammering away and you're just coasting across a field without pedalling at what started as 150bpm.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

MattMay said:


> Anyone know if when you have a bout of 230 bpm tachycardia like Cink did, does it just subside after a minute and then it's ok to resume a WC winning pace? Not a serious medical condition worthy of getting checked out by a doc? Seems risky, but I'm ignorant on the topic.


It depends. It was discussed on the Trainer road podcast when they intereviewed the Australian Kona Age group triathlete. This is the only way I know about the condition.

He described being on his hands and knees in the middle of the road as it hit 230


__
https://soundcloud.com/trainerroad%2Fkona-special-interview-wes-thompson-ask-a-cycling-coach-180

He was certainly putting out power throughout the cardiac event.

https://www.strava.com/activities/2512250535/analysis/3012/3753


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## Walt Disney's Frozen Head (Jan 9, 2008)

I occasionally ride w/ Lennard Zinn and another person who's now out of competition due to recurring issues. Both emphatically state that their version was more like FJ describes - not doing a damn thing and getting to the hospital asap.

perhaps there's different versions?


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## BermudaBrown (May 28, 2012)

Was on course this afternoon. Expect large fields for Les Gets (not that Andorra wasn't also large). Fast and wide climbs, longer than Andorra but maybe not as steep. Very quick and largely non-technical (from a World Cup standpoint) downhills and little single track bits. I was going to make predictions but I'll keep them internal... lest someone reading not be happy with them! I'll put one out loud because I so hope it's true - Catharine Pendrel for the top 5, hopefully podium!


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## ToastR (Sep 21, 2005)

Stonerider said:


> MvdP will be riding Canyon bikes for at least the next 4 years. He signed a new 4 year endorsement deal with them.


Heard Johan Bruyneel on the Move podcast today say that Alpecin will no longer sponsor the Katusha World Tour road team. But also that Canyon is in talks with Alpecin to take over as co-title sponsor with MvDP's Corendon Circus team. If I understood Johann correctly, he expects some Canyon/Katusha/Alpecin/Corendon Circus mashup that will be a World Tour Team. 
If that were to happen - I wonder if we'd lose MvDP from MTB even sooner. Surely the Canyon contract calls for him to rep their road bikes...


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

kevbikemad said:


> That was a really major jump in HR. Interesting that he was able to keep it in the normal range once he had recovered.


I had few similar issues before. Noone knows why, noone knows how. All checks for me were normal, all ultrasound, ECG, including bike and running stress test to max HR. Noone figured it out what's happening. On the end I figured myself, that too much coffee, a bit of dehydration and hot weather pretty much does it. After quiting coffee before training, I never had issue like this anymore. I still have no idea what exactly that is, but you get feeling your heart is not really pumping but more like shivering. After it's done, you are back to normal and if you don't **** your pants during this period, you can keep on pushing normal as you did before. Only thing for me was, that it never lasted 5 or 6 minutes like it did for him, as I always stopped pretty much right after I felt it (you don't even need to watch down on HRM to see that), and my issues were normally gone in 30-40sec.


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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

primoz said:


> I had few similar issues before. Noone knows why, noone knows how. All checks for me were normal, all ultrasound, ECG, including bike and running stress test to max HR. Noone figured it out what's happening. On the end I figured myself, that too much coffee, a bit of dehydration and hot weather pretty much does it. After quiting coffee before training, I never had issue like this anymore. I still have no idea what exactly that is, but you get feeling your heart is not really pumping but more like shivering. After it's done, you are back to normal and if you don't **** your pants during this period, you can keep on pushing normal as you did before. Only thing for me was, that it never lasted 5 or 6 minutes like it did for him, as I always stopped pretty much right after I felt it (you don't even need to watch down on HRM to see that), and my issues were normally gone in 30-40sec.


That might be exactly what happened to Cink. I would be surprised if he didn't have at least one pre-race espresso. He was also describing the condition as though his heart wasn't beating at all.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

JayDee81 said:


> That might be exactly what happened to Cink. I would be surprised if he didn't have at least one pre-race espresso. He was also describing the condition as though his heart wasn't beating at all.


Mine was indigestion/bicarb related. You're staring down at your chest with your heart fluttering away, not thumping away, thinking "that can't be pumping much at all".


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

This weekend has begun, Les Gets Short Track is now live.


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

Apparently Maxime Marotte received an asthma diagnosis after struggling to breathe at the end of the Vallnord race? Crazy


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Hey TDlover do you have any information why Ulloa Arevalo isn't racing?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Anton Cooper 30th in the short track...


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

Boring track... The only thing that made it exciting was waiting to see how much gap the sprint monster would have at the finish...
Im not sure the XCO "track" (Track, not race) is going to be any more exciting, but at least its something to watch.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

WRXJIM said:


> Boring track... The only thing that made it exciting was waiting to see how much gap the sprint monster would have at the finish...
> Im not sure the XCO "track" (Track, not race) is going to be any more exciting, but at least its something to watch.


The man is back! It was a good effort for him to blow out the pipes after his summer break.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

KC was not fooling around today, impressive last 2 laps. If I was Avancini, no way I would have let MVDP pass there. 

Pretty decent cyclocross races to watch on a Friday am.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

kevbikemad said:


> Pretty decent cyclocross races to watch on a Friday am.


Exactly what popped in my mind watching the women's race.


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## GChuckyB (Oct 25, 2017)

Deleted


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

LMN said:


> Hey TDlover do you have any information why Ulloa Arevalo isn't racing?


I can't tell for certain, but apparently his plans don't consider any other world cup in europe this year. I think it has to do with his funding and how they originally allocated available funds for the 2019 year. It's a shame, however he will be at World Champs and the USA WC.

Short track race for men was really tight, MDVP currently pretty invencible at sprinting. The field is gonna have to come up with different ideas to beat him.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

kevbikemad said:


> Pretty decent cyclocross races to watch on a Friday am.


I do love me some cyclocross...great viewing and tight racing! :thumbsup:


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Stonerider said:


> I do love me some cyclocross...great viewing and tight racing! :thumbsup:


Well, looks like we're going to get to see some more tomorrow. Apparently single track mtb trails are not necessary to host a WC race.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> The man is back! It was a good effort for him to blow out the pipes after his summer break.


A friend of mine claims he saw the MVDP and support (not sure if Dutch federation or Corendin-Circus) training at altitude in Livigno the other week.

But aside from that, agreed, it's great to see him back to mix it up at the WC.


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

Mid race or early race break by Nino. He knows its the only way he has a chance of fending off MVDP. Out endurance/condition him rather than let it come to a sprint. just my thoughts.

I wish the track as more tech in it... There needs to be significant areas in every track to reward bike handling. Doesnt need to be a crazy downhill (but that would be awesome) but there has to be something that years of MTB experience will reward.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

WRXJIM said:


> Mid race or early race break by Nino. He knows its the only way he has a chance of fending off MVDP. Out endurance/condition him rather than let it come to a sprint. just my thoughts.
> 
> I wish the track as more tech in it... There needs to be significant areas in every track to reward bike handling. Doesnt need to be a crazy downhill (but that would be awesome) but there has to be something that years of MTB experience will reward.


If MvdP is in 95% of the shape he was in when he was he won Amstel, DDV or Brabantse Pijl, and doesn't make a massive technical mistake or have a mechanical, Schurter is going to have to pull a truly magical performance out of the bag.

Truth be told, if MvdP goes and attacks hard at any point, it won't be a sprint. Nino won't even be in sight. Just like the last XCO race they were both in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Track does look very tame indeed, worryingly so. 

Half the marathons in my city seem to have more technical sections than Les Gets and we don't really have that many technical tracks. I wonder why they approve such courses, the direction they are taking as of lately doesn't seem to be good for the future of XC. 

In my opinion course need to become a bit longer so they can have more single tracks added to them, maybe decrease laps to 3-4, but double lap distance and add more features. It does get harder to film it, but it would be great for the racers and fans.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> If MvdP is in 95% of the shape he was in when he was he won Amstel, DDV or Brabantse Pijl, and doesn't make a massive technical mistake or have a mechanical, Schurter is going to have to pull a truly magical performance out of the bag.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I also don't think Nino has any chance against MVDP in this track. In fact, if you could bring the top 10 in cyclocross I think they would decimate the mtb field in this course, except for the top runners in mtb (Nino, Avancini, etc).


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

TDLover said:


> I also don't think Nino has any chance against MVDP in this track. In fact, if you could bring the top 10 in cyclocross I think they would decimate the mtb field in this course, except for the top runners in mtb (Nino, Avancini, etc).


I agree that MVDP has a gift course, and I really dislike the lack of MTB trails, but I don't know enough about other cross racers.

Are some strong climbers? I'm thinking a really light but strong climber might have a great day as well.


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## BermudaBrown (May 28, 2012)

The course is tame for a World Cup, for certain. However, it does have a few sections that will reward the pure mountain bikers - I would hazard a strong technical rider can gain 7-8 seconds per lap over a standard WC rider (and 40 seconds over the rest of us!).

Fitness will be key though, the first climb is definitely over the 2 minute range (almost 3 minutes, depending upon where you end your timer on the course).


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

Just watched woman XCO race and i could not see any cable to fork damper (remote lockout) on Jolanda TREK

Do anyone have a hi res picture of her bike in race?


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

amer_ua said:


> Just watched woman XCO race and i could not see any cable to fork damper (remote lockout) on Jolanda TREK
> 
> Do anyone have a hi res picture of her bike in race?


Who won?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

waltaz said:


> Who won?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Kate


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

Such a strong statement race from Kate! Leading from the second lap and responding to attacks from Rissveds and Neff.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Definitely not MVDP’s day.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

zgxtreme said:


> Kate


That is so awesome! She is quite impressive!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> If MvdP is in 95% of the shape he was in when he was he won Amstel, DDV or Brabantse Pijl, and doesn't make a massive technical mistake or have a mechanical, Schurter is going to have to pull a truly magical performance out of the bag.
> 
> Truth be told, if MvdP goes and attacks hard at any point, it won't be a sprint. Nino won't even be in sight. Just like the last XCO race they were both in.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You would think with the how hard it was for MvdP to win his first World Cup XCO people would stop under-estimating the level of the World Cup fields.

Nino is the most dominant rider in any discipline in the last 20 years. I don't care who you are nothing short of top form is going to beat him. As was clearly shown today.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> You would think with the how hard it was for MvdP to win his first World Cup XCO people would stop under-estimating the level of the World Cup fields.
> 
> Nino is the most dominant rider in any discipline in the last 20 years. I don't care who you are nothing short of top form is going to beat him. As was clearly shown today.


My statement was made given the relatively tame course and the fact that MvdP's physical development is still on the rise. Obviously he's not near peak form just yet.

But, again: A MvdP in top shape would eat Nino for breakfast on that course. MvdP put 18 seconds into Nino on a course that was less suited to him than this one the last time they raced. In the space of a kilometer, IIRC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

dwperry said:


> Such a strong statement race from Kate!


Was as well for Nino, of course with his resume he truly doesn't need to make a statement. But nonetheless, one was made that he's a mountain biker and these events are his stage not to be cast in the shadow of a rider everyone has bestowed as the next king.

MVDP is talented beyond belief. But pick a discipline. I know I'm the odd one out but it just rubs me the wrong way the same way Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders did during their NFL/MLB days.


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

I thought that the bike for the short race must be the same as the xco? Nino used the ht on the short race and the fully at the xco. How is that possible?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G973F met Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> My statement was made given the relatively tame course and the fact that MvdP's physical development is still on the rise. Obviously he's not near peak form just yet.
> 
> But, again: A MvdP in top shape would eat Nino for breakfast on that course. MvdP put 18 seconds into Nino on a course that was less suited to him than this one the last time they raced. In the space of a kilometer, IIRC.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't agree with you interpretation of the strengths and weakness of each rider. I would say that Czech suited Mvdp very well. Short climbs with long medium technical difficulty descents, it suits his characteristics to a tee. However, he has always struggled on course with extended climbs, and fast descents. He just doesn't quite have the watts/kg to climb with the very bests.

And don't put too much stock in that 18s. Once Mvdp broke Nino, Nino was not on the gas. You know how it works, I am sure you have done it to people or had it done to yourself.

I am not disrespecting MvdP, he is the best cyclist all round in the world right now. But Nino certainly deserves a lot more respect than he is getting. After all in XCO racing Mvdp has beat Nino twice, out of how many races?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

JasperGr said:


> I thought that the bike for the short race must be the same as the xco? Nino used the ht on the short race and the fully at the xco. How is that possible?
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G973F met Tapatalk


He was on his FS for the short track.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

amer_ua said:


> Just watched woman XCO race and i could not see any cable to fork damper (remote lockout) on Jolanda TREK
> 
> Do anyone have a hi res picture of her bike in race?


Here ya go. Maybe there's an AXS module hidden under the tarp


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

JasperGr said:


> I thought that the bike for the short race must be the same as the xco? Nino used the ht on the short race and the fully at the xco. How is that possible?


Schurter was on fully for XCC. He did post photo of silver HT on instagram day or two before race saying it's his bike for XCC, but he was racing with fully.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

The consistency, skills and tactics of Nino is truly amazing. Looking forward to the remaining race and I can not wait for MSA.

Pretty pumped to see Peter Disera get a 6th.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Well, we were quite wrong about our pre race predictions on Nino and MVDP. MVDP clearly had a very bad day, couldn't even crack a top 15. We had seen this from MVDP before, its just that lately he had been more consistent.

I think there is no doubt Nino's greatness comes from his consistency at being a contender in every single world cup. I mean, even in his off days he stays within the top 10, something no other rider can do. 

However, I stand by my point. In past years, Nino's strengths matched the courses and xco format formidably, which is why he was so dominant. In recent years adding xcc and introducing tame courses in the calendar have made it tougher for Nino to be as dominant.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The interesting thing about Mvdp race is he was really moving the second half.

His lap time ranking was:
9th, 38th, 49th, 89th!!, 16th, 5th, 4th, 3rd.

His slowest lap was about the same speed as his teammate who won the U23 women's race. That is what you call suffering from the a hard start.


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

I stopped checking his position when he fell past 40th place, so I was surprised to see him pop up inside the top 20 at the end


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

1,200m of climbing during the race. Ouch.


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

Looks like there was no water bottle or cage on Courtney's hardtail on Sunday. Did she do the whole race on feeds through the tech zones? IIRC there's no minimum weight for XC bikes... I wonder how much of an equipment weight advantage she had over Neff on a full suspension bike carrying a bottle [how full] and cage? 3lbs minimum?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The women were running 12 minute laps and had two feed zone passes per lap, it looked like most riders were just dousing themselves in water and grabbing a drink on the pass through and tossing the bottle.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> Hey TDlover do you have any information why Ulloa Arevalo isn't racing?


I heard from a source in Mexico he got sick, but I doubt that since he is in Mexico @ this moment due the to presentation of athletes going to Lima, Peru for the Pan-Am Games. Plus the fact the the Pan-Am Games are very near they might want to bring him back early. He will be fighting with Avancini for the win in Lima, Peru pretty soon and that's a big goal for Mexico.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

jms said:


> Looks like there was no water bottle or cage on Courtney's hardtail on Sunday. Did she do the whole race on feeds through the tech zones? IIRC there's no minimum weight for XC bikes... I wonder how much of an equipment weight advantage she had over Neff on a full suspension bike carrying a bottle [how full] and cage? 3lbs minimum?


I think Bart said it best about the difference between Kate and Jolanda on the day: The difference is entirely mental. The bottle definitely didn't come anywhere near being decisive in the race. But, maybe an athlete that thinks that a lighter bike will make a difference will go harder.


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

I'm guessing Jolanda and Emily are contractually obligated to ride full suspension bikes. Perhaps Kate has more leeway. Trek's making a big deal about their new "super secret" suspension design, and the announcers refer to it endlessly. 

The Trek factory riders would probably be better off on hardtails. These courses they're racing on this year look extremely smooth. You could likely get away with riding these courses on drop bar gravel bikes.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

^Emily used a hard tail


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

Is Maja going to race at all this year? Anyone know status?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I think she said on facegram that she would do worlds, dunno, sure wrecked my fantasy league score so far!


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

On a separate note, Wout Van Aert won today’s stage on the Tour de France.
First Tour de France appearance and already won a stage.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

j102 said:


> On a separate note, Wout Van Aert won today's stage on the Tour de France.
> First Tour de France appearance and already won a stage.


His team stuffed up though. Sending the 4th place GC rider back for bidon's? Goes from 23s down to 15min?


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## 7daysaweek (May 7, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> His team stuffed up though. Sending the 4th place GC rider back for bidon's? Goes from 23s down to 15min?


Still not having a bad tour. 4 out of the first 10 stages right? That Bennett move was a head-scratcher and I believe I heard something yesterday about his team telling him not to go back for bottles and he did it anyway. But all in all that team is still having a solid tour. It was kinda cool watching the video inside the team bus of the end of the stage yesterday.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

Interesting its FOX shock. 
I dont think its performing as well as they hoped, Neff definitely doesnt seem as dominant or comfortable on descents as she has.
I also wonder if Anton and Emily have been on the same training plan until recently as they have both been under performing, and both have been scratching their heads a little.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

carlostruco said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It looks like a simpler switch infinity system, rear trajectory seems to be linear as it seems to be railed to the shock. Proprietary shocks are always a headache to deal with. Aside from that on a simple look it doesn't look that great in my opinion, they are trying to solve a problem in a complex way, yet it doesn't need solving anymore.

I give it one generation till its dead.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

7daysaweek said:


> Still not having a bad tour. 4 out of the first 10 stages right? That Bennett move was a head-scratcher and I believe I heard something yesterday about his team telling him not to go back for bottles and he did it anyway. But all in all that team is still having a solid tour. It was kinda cool watching the video inside the team bus of the end of the stage yesterday.


Yep, just bad timing.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

TDLover said:


> It looks like a simpler switch infinity system, rear trajectory seems to be linear as it seems to be railed to the shock. Proprietary shocks are always a headache to deal with. Aside from that on a simple look it doesn't look that great in my opinion, they are trying to solve a problem in a complex way, yet it doesn't need solving anymore.
> 
> I give it one generation till its dead.


Not even close, this is a strut, the switch infinity is basically a floating main pivot but still uses a std shock. Sounds like the Trek engineers really missed the boat by not consulting you since you say its dead in 4yrs.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

carlostruco said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To me that looks like some version of their thru shaft system Reaktiv, but I can't really understand how it works... the shock must be able to change angle somehow. Is the front bushings of the shock turned 90 degrees and pivoting inside the frame?


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

peabody said:


> Not even close, this is a strut, the switch infinity is basically a floating main pivot but still uses a std shock. Sounds like the Trek engineers really missed the boat by not consulting you since you say its dead in 4yrs.


You are right, this isn't close to what the SI system does.

I was referring to them as similar in the sense that they both use a custom developed rear shock for its use. Also, how both systems add complexity to a problem that doesn't need it.

Maybe I'm right or wrong in 4 years, but for Trek it doesn't matter, they are big enough that if it fails as a project they can still reap benefits from it (marketing, innovation, knowledge, etc). From a consumer point of view, however, I would steer away from it for now, unless you are dentist.


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

anyone know the actual racing schedule for the Snowshoe world cup? can't find it anywhere!


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

khardrunner14 said:


> anyone know the actual racing schedule for the Snowshoe world cup? can't find it anywhere!


I was able to find it back in October, but this is as close as I got just now:

https://www.redbull.com/sg-en/events/AP-1XJS6F4TS2111


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

Skier78 said:


> To me that looks like some version of their thru shaft system Reaktiv, but I can't really understand how it works... the shock must be able to change angle somehow. Is the front bushings of the shock turned 90 degrees and pivoting inside the frame?


I'd guess the shock is fixed to the frame at both ends and acts like a slider, with the small changes in angle handled by flex of the seat stays. Similar to bikes like the Scalpel (in-line shock with seat stay flex) but no need for a rotating link as shock is built into frame.

Seems like a cool and very light weight way to add a bit of tunable compliance. Probably not much travel, and kind of an iteration of old school elastomer "soft-tail" frames.


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

teamdicky said:


> I was able to find it back in October, but this is as close as I got just now:
> 
> https://www.redbull.com/sg-en/events/AP-1XJS6F4TS2111


Thanks. We are probably headed out to watch since this is as close as it's ever been. My kids are dying to see them race in real life.


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

khardrunner14 said:


> Thanks. We are probably headed out to watch since this is as close as it's ever been. My kids are dying to see them race in real life.


Congrats! You'll get a great view of the race action for sure. Have a great time!



DrewBird said:


> I'd guess the shock is fixed to the frame at both ends and acts like a slider, with the small changes in angle handled by flex of the seat stays. Similar to bikes like the Scalpel (in-line shock with seat stay flex) but no need for a rotating link as shock is built into frame.
> 
> Seems like a cool and very light weight way to add a bit of tunable compliance. Probably not much travel, and kind of an iteration of old school elastomer "soft-tail" frames.


It seems like a decent option on the smoother courses the riders are racing on this year.

I just wonder how much of a market there is for soft-tails. Specialized has an "EVO" (longer travel 130) epic which is neither fish nor fowl.

Trek also debuted an "XC" bike with 130 travel. Demands seems to be moving incrementally towards more travel with each passing year, so a soft-tail seems like an odd move.

Unfortunately, Americans and Europeans are getting heavier and less physically fit with each passing year so I can see why manufacturers are moving towards more travel and even to e-bikes.

How do you market bikes intended for the most fit riders in the world to a consumer base which demands more and more convenience, more comfort and increasingly less fit?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

westernmtb said:


> Congrats! You'll get a great view of the race action for sure. Have a great time!
> 
> It seems like a decent option on the smoother courses the riders are racing on this year.
> 
> ...


Your numbers on both bikes are off.

The Epic Evo is 120/100.

The Top Fuel is 120/115.

I'd race either one in a stage race or marathon setting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

jms said:


> Looks like there was no water bottle or cage on Courtney's hardtail on Sunday. Did she do the whole race on feeds through the tech zones? IIRC there's no minimum weight for XC bikes... I wonder how much of an equipment weight advantage she had over Neff on a full suspension bike carrying a bottle [how full] and cage? 3lbs minimum?


These things actually matter more then someone would think. I just had some spare time now, so I did some calculations. For Les Gets first climb (guys were riding those 0.65km and 75m of ascend around 2:28min. That extra 0.5kg (which is about the weight of full standard 0.5L bottle), brings about 2W. Doesn't sound much, but without 0.5kg and with same power output, you actually gain 2sec in those 2min 28sec. Sure not all that much, but having 2 sort of similar climbs in lap and 8 laps this brings 32sec. And that all of a sudden looks already like a good margin.


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## oshaden (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm looking forward to watching some world-class racing at the Canadian championships this weekend. It should be quite the battle in the women's category. Does anybody on here know how much bearing, if any, these national championships have on Olympic team selection?

I'm also looking forward to getting my butt kicked Saturday morning in the Masters race ... I hear it's a pretty tough course.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

oshaden said:


> I'm looking forward to watching some world-class racing at the Canadian championships this weekend. It should be quite the battle in the women's category. Does anybody on here know how much bearing, if any, these national championships have on Olympic team selection?
> 
> I'm also looking forward to getting my butt kicked Saturday morning in the Masters race ... I hear it's a pretty tough course.


They will have zero bearing on Olympic selection. The team will be decided by the best WC result in the 2019 season, and Czech Republic 2020.


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## oshaden (Feb 5, 2010)

LMN said:


> They will have zero bearing on Olympic selection. The team will be decided by the best WC result in the 2019 season, and Czech Republic 2020.


Thanks. Still, this should be an interesting race to watch. 
Cheers


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

primoz said:


> These things actually matter more then someone would think. I just had some spare time now, so I did some calculations. For Les Gets first climb (guys were riding those 0.65km and 75m of ascend around 2:28min. That extra 0.5kg (which is about the weight of full standard 0.5L bottle), brings about 2W. Doesn't sound much, but without 0.5kg and with same power output, you actually gain 2sec in those 2min 28sec. Sure not all that much, but having 2 sort of similar climbs in lap and 8 laps this brings 32sec. And that all of a sudden looks already like a good margin.


Which makes me wonder why Neff is racing a full suspension. Rear suspension could add several pounds, is far less efficient in sprints, and less efficient in climbs. It's reasonable to assume Neff is contractually obligated to race this prototype.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

I'm looking forward to seeing if the Stan's Pivot team manages to win a few more races. They had a great debut for the bike, but not much else so far, right?

Is anyone else in the Pro XC field running the Fox Live Valve suspension? I thought they'd come out with more presence.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk

_OT content removed - DB_


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## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

I "think" Keegan Swenson has been using it. Not any of the "Top" riders.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Renzo7 said:


> Is anyone else in the Pro XC field running the Fox Live Valve suspension? I thought they'd come out with more presence.


On the Fox videos they've usually got a couple of riders coming through with live valve, but we only see them at events where the DH and XC are both happening.


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> On the Fox videos they've usually got a couple of riders coming through with live valve, but we only see them at events where the DH and XC are both happening.


Do all Fox-sponsored teams have access to Live Valve? Pivot is one of the few selling LV as an option on a production bike AFAIK so maybe there's a special development relationship there.

Does LV add much weight relative to a remote setup? If so maybe it's more popular with short track specialists than the big names, given they have to ride the same bike for both.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

Closed pending moderation of recent post. Will re-open when cleaned up.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

Thread cleaned up to remove Off Topic argumentative posts that were not related to XC racing/training.

Opened again for posting.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

driver bob said:


> Thread cleaned up to remove Off Topic argumentative posts that were not related to XC racing/training.
> 
> Opened again for posting.


Thanks.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

+100 Thanks


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

driver bob said:


> Thread cleaned up to remove Off Topic argumentative posts that were not related to XC racing/training.
> 
> Opened again for posting.





Sidewalk said:


> Thanks.





mik_git said:


> +100 Thanks


What they said and I'll throw a few more thanks in as well


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

Every year this thread jumps the shark at least a couple of times. It also becomes a little unmanageable to search. I'm wondering if next year we should have a silly season thread, followed by a preseason thread that covers the early-season stage races and Sea Otter, then threads for each world cup and other major race. Just a thought.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

euro-trash said:


> Every year this thread jumps the shark at least a couple of times. It also becomes a little unmanageable to search. I'm wondering if next year we should have a silly season thread, followed by a preseason thread that covers the early-season stage races and Sea Otter, then threads for each world cup and other major race. Just a thought.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


That would work great if we had an active mod willing to do that work. That's a lot of work though, not sure anyone is up for the task, certainly not the current mods.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

TDLover said:


> That would work great if we had an active mod willing to do that work. That's a lot of work though, not sure anyone is up for the task, certainly not the current mods.


Next year we *should* be on a new hosted platform which *should* make our lives as mods easier. That being said, all of us do this on a volunteer basis while holding down FT jobs and families etc.

The report function works pretty well most of the time, you just need to bear with us when it takes a while to clean things up.

DB


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Renzo7 said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing if the Stan's Pivot team manages to win a few more races. They had a great debut for the bike, but not much else so far, right?
> 
> Is anyone else in the Pro XC field running the Fox Live Valve suspension? I thought they'd come out with more presence.
> 
> ...


Live Valve is still pretty rare. I am only seeing in on Pivot and Giant riders right now.

I did do a little spin on a Giant that had some. Not enough to really test it but it certainly felt awesome for the riding I did.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

LMN said:


> Live Valve is still pretty rare. I am only seeing in on Pivot and Giant riders right now.
> 
> I did do a little spin on a Giant that had some. Not enough to really test it but it certainly felt awesome for the riding I did.


Thank you for the insight, LMN.

I thought that Fox would push harder on this. I find the system to be super interesting and I'd be stoked if a chance to try it presented itself.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

Does anyone know what's up with Emily Batty? She is so far off from where she was the past two years. I know we're all human, but there must be something that's changed or is off.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Renzo7 said:


> Thank you for the insight, LMN.
> 
> I thought that Fox would push harder on this. I find the system to be super interesting and I'd be stoked if a chance to try it presented itself.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


I think I heard $3-4K MSRP when it hits retail channels. That's going to price it out for most folks I'd wager.


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

pinkpowa said:


> I think I heard $3-4K MSRP when it hits retail channels. That's going to price it out for most folks I'd wager.


From James Huang's review of the Mach4SL, in reference to adding LiveValve to a full build (shock and fork):

"Upgrading to Live Valve adds an extra $1,900 USD on top of the standard build kits, and adds about 220g (0.5lb). That's a lot of money, but also a considerable savings over the $3,200 it'd cost to add the system after the fact - plus, the folks at Pivot HQ in Arizona will route all of those wires for you."

To me Live Valve seems really cool, but also obviously really new & likely to benefit from refinement. Early adopters gonna adopt and all, but I'll wait for a cheaper future generation with the kinks worked out.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

bizango said:


> Does anyone know what's up with Emily Batty? She is so far off from where she was the past two years. I know we're all human, but there must be something that's changed or is off.


She posted about her struggles a bit about a month back. Something like she had been training hard, but was frustrated as she got slower and slower the harder she worked.

I'm thinking she is burnt out. At the start of last season she was a bit off too (but not like this). And then she posted she had tried some new training tactics, but then went back to doing what she knew worked for her. She probably made the same mistake, but worse this season.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

pinkpowa said:


> I think I heard $3-4K MSRP when it hits retail channels. That's going to price it out for most folks I'd wager.


Agreed! I definitely wouldn't buy the upgrade by itself, though I doubt I'd buy it in a complete bike, either.

My Epic works quite nicely with the Brain, and this is supposed to be a step above.

Eventually it'll get cheaper. Let's hope that that's relatively soon.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Was curious how this weekend would play out for Emily given the difficulty she's faced on the World Cup circuit this year.


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## Toldto (Aug 16, 2013)

She won.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

That's cool. It should help her confidence and hopefully it is a start of better times for her.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

bizango said:


> That's cool. It should help her confidence and hopefully it is a start of better times for her.


Hopefully she learned that the Keto diet doesn't work for XCO racing and probably shouldn't have experimented with it this year.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

MI-XC said:


> Hopefully she learned that the Keto diet doesn't work for XCO racing and probably shouldn't have experimented with it this year.


I'm not sure why people are saying that Keto diet didn't work for her, where are all of you getting this from?

As far as I can tell from her videos, she never said she was doing Keto diet, she said she cut on her high carbohydrate intake in favor of protein and fats. Even from her videos and what she shows you can clearly see she is not in ketosis as she still eats plenty of carbohydrates.

Her diet seems to resemble more the paleo diet low on carbohydrates.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

TDLover said:


> I'm not sure why people are saying that Keto diet didn't work for her, where are all of you getting this from?
> 
> As far as I can tell from her videos, she never said she was doing Keto diet, she said she cut on her high carbohydrate intake in favor of protein and fats. Even from her videos and what she shows you can clearly see she is not in ketosis as she still eats plenty of carbohydrates.
> 
> Her diet seems to resemble more the paleo diet low on carbohydrates.


Sorry, I misspoke, apparently she follows the Cyclical Keto Diet:

The cyclical keto diet involves rotating between a strict high-fat, low-carb ketogenic meal plan and higher carb intake.

My point was that experimenting with this diet MAY explain, possibly even in part, why she's struggling this year. I tend to agree with The Endurance Diet (Matt Fitzgerald).


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

MI-XC said:


> My point was that experimenting with this diet MAY explain, possibly even in part, why she's struggling this year. I tend to agree with The Endurance Diet (Matt Fitzgerald).


That might be a reason, hard to tell. To me it seems more like a mental thing.

I just found it odd you mentioning that, pinkbike is full of comments like yours saying the culprit to her lack of performance was the keto diet. However, at least in her videos she clearly says that after workouts she has a post meal rich in carbohydrates so clearly she wasn't/isn't following the keto diet.

I also think a keto diet has no place in elite athletes, but the debate is still ongoing. You certainly need glycogen reserves to win in XCO. A poster in another thread was certain you could fill your glycogen reserves while being in ketosis, something I still believe is not possible.


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

It's been a bizarre season for Batty. She just won nationals, beating out Pendrel by over a minute, yet Pendrel has had significantly better results than Batty in just about every World Cup this season.

Does she use a power meter during races and/or training? I have a hard time believing that Batty would not detect a drop off in performance in pre-season or in-season training if she was monitoring power output.

Several other top female riders have rebounded very rapidly getting back on the podium: Prevot had surgery at the start of the season and is back on the podium.

I believe Rissveds has not raced in a World Cup event in 3 years and is back on the podium and back in the top 10.

Something has to be seriously out of wack for Batty, that's for sure.



TDLover said:


> That might be a reason, hard to tell. To me it seems more like a mental thing.
> 
> I just found it odd you mentioning that, pinkbike is full of comments like yours saying the culprit to her lack of performance was the keto diet.


I've found that this type of speculation leads nowhere. We're just not going to find out.

Bicycle racing is the complete opposite of the mega revenue team sports.

1. it's low revenue vs billions in revenue

2. very few of the athletes are ever in legal trouble, meaning there's nothing to gossip about

3. the race venues are in remote outskirts hidden in European forests: TMZ prefers the posh westside neighborhoods of Los Angeles. They won't even venture out to San Fernando Valley, much less the Swiss Alps.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

westernmtb said:


> Does she use a power meter during races and/or training? I have a hard time believing that Batty would not detect a drop off in performance in pre-season or in-season training if she was monitoring power output.


I'm sure most of you won't agree, but I honestly don't care. I have spent so much time myself (as racer and later as part of "support" team) in top level pro sport, that I (probably) have more experience when it comes to training then most of CAT27 hobby racers.
Anyway... maybe too much looking down just at power meter is exactly reason that you don't see those things. And that's also reason, why I say powermeters and obsession with them is complete BS. Human body is not mechanical device and power meters are most of time completely useless things that can actually mislead you. HRMs on other side, even if being constantly drop by most of hobby riders and exchanged with power metes, are the thing that actually show what is happening with your body. 
Contrary to mechanical devices, we have good days and we have bad days. We have days where last weeks effort renders us incapable of doing something hard or makes us do hard intervals super easy. With power meters you don't see anything of this, especially if you don't go into max power.
You can always turn 300W (if 300W is not your max power), but thing is, almost never those 300W are at exactly same HR. And simplified said, HR determines what your body will do and how will react to that. With good day you will be spinning those 300W at 160bps, when over trained at 150bps, and on just bad day at 170bps (of course numbers are made out now, before someone hangs on them). And spinning at 160 HR or at 170 HR are two completely different things, even if power output is exactly same. For mechanical robot power is all what matters, for human body difference between HR at 160 or 170 is big deal.
And when dropping HRMs and looking just at power output you come to whole different result then when working with HRM and of course understanding what it means. 
PS: Yes I agree power meters have their space in training, and even racing, but on way lower scale then most of cycling world consider them.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

westernmtb said:


> It's been a bizarre season for Batty. She just won nationals, beating out Pendrel by over a minute, yet Pendrel has had significantly better results than Batty in just about every World Cup this season.


Plain old simple, Emily rode better than Catharine did. Catharine made a couple of significant errors and Emily didn't make any. Emily has always been good at delivering a strong error free race, Catharine on the other hand makes mistakes. All the climbing legs in the world do nothing when you have launched yourself over the bars.

As for monitoring training values with a power meter you have to remember that part of training is getting out of shape. In the winter you expect low power values and then hope that because of training they increase in race season.

For Catharine typically we would see these
November 1st: 20min 220-230
March 1st: 20 min 250-260
Peak value: 270-280

The problem is some times you hit those November and March targets but that peak value for some reason is lower. Or sometimes you get hit hard by a Flu or minor injury during a critical training phase and can never quite hit those marks.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

primoz said:


> PS: Yes I agree power meters have their space in training, and even racing, but on way lower scale then most of cycling world consider them.


Now that I have a PM I now race with RPE first, HRM second, PM last. The HRM works well until I get physically overwhelmed. When I start hitting physical exhaustion I start struggling to get my HR up, even though I know I am pushing as hard as I can.

Racing with power only works when I am racing in conditions similar to my training. Once I hit elevation, unusual weather, unusual courses, the PM stops being helpful. I look at the numbers after the fact to see some patterns though.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

westernmtb said:


> It's been a bizarre season for Batty. She just won nationals, beating out Pendrel by over a minute, yet Pendrel has had significantly better results than Batty in just about every World Cup this season.


This was essentially a home course for Batty. Other riders from out of town sometimes have the benefit of training days and also competing at the venue in multiple years, but that's no substitute for the smoothness, confidence, and efficiency that comes when competing on trails that you've ridden or raced a hundred times or more over a couple of decades. I can't quantify the effect, but I'm positive it's real and often significant. Hopefully she can take that confidence forward to the rest of the WC season.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

First time going to watch a world cup , is there possibility to take a bike with you inside to watch xco race ? or safely store bike somewhere? ( I'm travelling with car and roof tent, so no option of leaving bike to hotel )


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

MI-XC said:


> Hopefully she learned that the Keto diet doesn't work for XCO racing and probably shouldn't have experimented with it this year.


Hmm, Froome is keto and although we don't know how this year would have gone for him since his accident I think it's safe to say he's been very successful in the past.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

MessagefromTate said:


> Hmm, Froome is keto and although we don't know how this year would have gone for him since his accident I think it's safe to say he's been very successful in the past.


Froome also doesn't race high intensity XCO, which is highly dependent on carbohydrates. Secondly, pointing to the top of the top anecdotal example doesn't represent best practices and science. Froome, MVDP, and Nino could probably all pound McDonalds's as their nutritional plan and still have amazing success, but I wouldn't recommend that for everyone else.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

MessagefromTate said:


> Hmm, Froome is keto and although we don't know how this year would have gone for him since his accident I think it's safe to say he's been very successful in the past.


I have pretty minimal knowledge of Keto diets. However, my understanding is they work best for events of long duration where preserving glycogen is critical. XCO is short enough that there is enough stored glycogen for the entire event.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

LMN said:


> I have pretty minimal knowledge of Keto diets. However, my understanding is they work best for events of long duration where preserving glycogen is critical. XCO is short enough that there is enough stored glycogen for the entire event.


The whole point of the keto diet is to deplete glycogen stores in the liver and muscles. When you are on ketosis, your glycogen stores in your liver are basically 0. You still have some glycogen in muscles, but those start getting their energy from fats exclusively via other processes.

Even without any carbs your body still can synthesize glucose which is needed for your brain and eyes, but apart from that you will be running on ketones.

Someone truly on ketosis state will have 0 punch, none. You wouldn't be able to sprint 100m, however you might be able to sustain your endurance pace forever with the highest efficiency. In a discipline like xco its impossible to win on ketosis, not even in road cycling is possible .Maybe Froome does run a legitimate keto diet when he is doing his base program, but certainly not at tours.

As with everything, people throw around popular words and change their meaning, by saying Keto diet, they might refer simply to a low carb diet, which is far from being in ketosis.

Being in Ketosis has some real scientific benefits like treating cancer tumors and people with epilepsy but is not a panacea.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TDLover said:


> Someone truly on ketosis state will have 0 punch, none. You wouldn't be able to sprint 100m, however you might be able to sustain your endurance pace forever with the highest efficiency.


I did read that some very high level Race Walkers are using a Keto diet. I guess in a sport where you are not aloud to sprint it might work.

My understanding with road racers is they are trying working on "metabolic flexibility", burn primarily fats at low intensity but switch to glycogen when they need to go hard. We all do this to a certain extent but they are deliberately trying improve their ability to use fat as a fuel.

As I said though this is very far from my area of expertise, I have only been exposed to the ideas in passing and have never done any real research on it.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

MI-XC said:


> Froome also doesn't race high intensity XCO, which is highly dependent on carbohydrates. Secondly, pointing to the top of the top anecdotal example doesn't represent best practices and science. Froome, MVDP, and Nino could probably all pound McDonalds's as their nutritional plan and still have amazing success, but I wouldn't recommend that for everyone else.


True he isn't racing XCO but I guess pounding out 450-500W for 30 mins on a 10 mile climb is low intensity in your book... My point was that everybody is different as to how their body reacts to any stimuli, so suggesting Batty's performance this year can be attributed solely to diet is as anecdotal as my my reference to Froome, which was the point.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

MessagefromTate said:


> Hmm, Froome is keto and although we don't know how this year would have gone for him since his accident I think it's safe to say he's been very successful in the past.


I think Froome used a cyclical low carb/high carb approach with Sky. Not sure what he's been up to with Ineos.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

MI-XC said:


> Froome also doesn't race high intensity XCO.


This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

peabody said:


> This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while.


Yep, because nobody from "high intensity" XCO has ever crossed over to elite road racing because the two disciplines are so different (eyes rolling)...


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

peabody said:


> This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while.


Thank you for adding to the discussion, that's helpful. The physiological demands/fitness needed for road racing versus XCO or crit are different, this is not a controversial statement. Current science states bouts of high intensity (anaerobic capacity) are sugar/carbohydrate dependent, can not be fueled solely by fat, thus Keto is not a viable option to optimize performance. This is the discussion I was having and my statement of why Batty may not have wanted to experiment with Keto. Of course this doesn't explain why she is struggling this year as their is likely a whole host of factors. It's simply an insight since she posted a video about it and it's different than what she had been doing in the past.

The statement of Froome not racing high intensity has nothing to do with how many watts he can push, but rather the power output relative to him. Is 300w high intensity? For me it's threshold and for someone else it's their VO2 max. I have no doubt that Froome's sweet spot is at or above my VO2 max, but that doesn't mean he doing high intensity. You can't consistently do high intensity for hours on end, unless you're talking about high intensity with plenty of rest in between. You can however ride tempo for hours (typical road races) and then put in big anaerobic efforts when needed.

So back to the discussion, the physiological demands needed for XCO/crit racing is different than road racing because of intensity versus longer more sustained/steady efforts. You can eat solid foods during longer events where you'd almost never see that for shorter high intensity races. The longer the events (24 hr races), and the more difficult it is to consume calories (swimming, running, etc.) the more a Keto diet makes sense.

Looking into what available publicly about Froome's diet, it doesn't appear he is doing Keto.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

peabody said:


> This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while.


I was thinking this is the dumbest response to a thoughtful comment, by taking things out of context, that I've read in a while


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

ccm said:


> I was thinking this is the dumbest response to a thoughtful comment, by taking things out of context, that I've read in a while


It's going to be so nice to get some racing going again.... the purse swinging in this thread gets tiresome.....


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

MI-XC said:


> Thank you for adding to the discussion, that's helpful. The physiological demands/fitness needed for road racing versus XCO or crit are different, this is not a controversial statement. Current science states bouts of high intensity (anaerobic capacity) are sugar/carbohydrate dependent, can not be fueled solely by fat, thus Keto is not a viable option to optimize performance. This is the discussion I was having and my statement of why Batty may not have wanted to experiment with Keto. Of course this doesn't explain why she is struggling this year as their is likely a whole host of factors. It's simply an insight since she posted a video about it and it's different than what she had been doing in the past.
> 
> The statement of Froome not racing high intensity has nothing to do with how many watts he can push, but rather the power output relative to him. Is 300w high intensity? For me it's threshold and for someone else it's their VO2 max. I have no doubt that Froome's sweet spot is at or above my VO2 max, but that doesn't mean he doing high intensity. You can't consistently do high intensity for hours on end, unless you're talking about high intensity with plenty of rest in between. You can however ride tempo for hours (typical road races) and then put in big anaerobic efforts when needed.
> 
> ...


There's the tour winner on an MTB podium, cycling is cycling.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

MI-XC said:


> Thank you for adding to the discussion, that's helpful. The physiological demands/fitness needed for road racing versus XCO or crit are different, this is not a controversial statement. Current science states bouts of high intensity (anaerobic capacity) are sugar/carbohydrate dependent, can not be fueled solely by fat, thus Keto is not a viable option to optimize performance. This is the discussion I was having and my statement of why Batty may not have wanted to experiment with Keto. Of course this doesn't explain why she is struggling this year as their is likely a whole host of factors. It's simply an insight since she posted a video about it and it's different than what she had been doing in the past.
> 
> The statement of Froome not racing high intensity has nothing to do with how many watts he can push, but rather the power output relative to him. Is 300w high intensity? For me it's threshold and for someone else it's their VO2 max. I have no doubt that Froome's sweet spot is at or above my VO2 max, but that doesn't mean he doing high intensity. You can't consistently do high intensity for hours on end, unless you're talking about high intensity with plenty of rest in between. You can however ride tempo for hours (typical road races) and then put in big anaerobic efforts when needed.
> 
> ...


This is comical, it's almost as though you've never ridden a bike. I can see you are of the opinion that road and mtb are so different that you aren't open to evidence of the contrary. That's fine. Pssst, Egan Bernal used to race pro mtb. Just don't tell him as it might sabotage his road career.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Ulloa just beat Avancini at the Pan-Am Games in Peru.

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Plus, MvdP is the new European Champion 


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

carlostruco said:


> Plus, MvdP is the new European Champion


No, it's Jolanda Neff! 
...well, both of them


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

carlostruco said:


> Ulloa just beat Avancini at the Pan-Am Games in Peru.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nice. Ulloa seems to be a great rider. Hope he will always be present at WC level in the future.
Yolanda performed perfectly as did MvdP (his performance was a reminder of his CX superiority: ride away at a certain point at let the gap open up to a minute, never falter.) Florian Vogel an Milan Vader have been real surprises on the men's podium. Flo rode super consistent.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

chilla13 said:


> Nice. Ulloa seems to be a great rider. Hope he will always be present at WC level in the future.
> Yolanda performed perfectly as did MvdP (his performance was a reminder of his CX superiority: ride away at a certain point at let the gap open up to a minute, never falter.) Florian Vogel an Milan Vader have been real surprises on the men's podium. Flo rode super consistent.


Avancini had a flat mid race while in the lead. Still, great performance by Ulloa.

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## forrest_m (May 26, 2015)

Is there a full replay of the european championships out there? Can't find anything in the usual places.


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

Here's a replay of the women's race, and here's the men's race. Czech commentary. It was also broadcast on Eurosport, but I don't know of a way to see the replay without a subscription.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Where was Nino?


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

bananajoe said:


> No, it's Jolanda Neff!
> ...well, both of them


Van der Poel is clearly the fastest European rider. He is the champion. Jolanda is the _women's _champion.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

westernmtb said:


> Van der Poel is clearly the fastest European rider. He is the champion. Jolanda is the _women's _champion.


Do you feel better about yourself now?


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

bikeranzin said:


> Do you feel better about yourself now?


VDP was 3 kph faster than Jolanda at Les Gets. He took two minutes less to complete a course that was 3.6 km longer. That was not even a good race for VDP: he finished 16th.

Do you feel better about yourself now that you are informed of the facts?


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

Jeepers guys, what's with the cheap shots?

Keep it civil please, other users aren't happy and a little respect all around will go a long way to keeping this thread open.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

driver bob said:


> Jeepers guys, what's with the cheap shots?
> 
> Keep it civil please, other users aren't happy and a little respect all around will go a long way to keeping this thread open.


My dad can beat up your dad!


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

driver bob said:


> Jeepers guys, what's with the cheap shots?
> 
> Keep it civil please, other users aren't happy and a little respect all around will go a long way to keeping this thread open.


The discussion this season has been ridiculous.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Double; blame Tapatalk.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Anybody know what is happening with Kulhavey? I haven’t seen much on his social media. Is he sick or injured? 33rd at the European champs and seemingly absent everywhere else seems out of character.


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

Sidewalk said:


> My dad can beat up your dad!




My mum can beat up your dad!

Mmmm, I'm not so sure who I'm insulting with that one. 

Just to keep it somewhat relevant, 2020 Olympics XC race is just over 1 year away! Ninos last chance, MVPs only chance? Kate's first. After the way this thread has gone, I can't be the only one looking forward to next year.


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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

PlanB said:


> Anybody know what is happening with Kulhavey? I haven't seen much on his social media. Is he sick or injured? 33rd at the European champs and seemingly absent everywhere else seems out of character.


He just doesn't feel good. He is still training and he was racing the European championship (31. place), but he says he doesn't 'feel it', that he can't push the watts he used to.
What is notable is that he finished the race in Brno, which goes against his standard. Props for that.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

driver bob said:


> Jeepers guys, what's with the cheap shots?
> 
> Keep it civil please, other users aren't happy and a little respect all around will go a long way to keeping this thread open.


I dunno, it's kinda entertaining and proves that the only argument you can win is the one you don't get into.

Btw, wonder why Fluckinger is so hot this season? I put it down to attitude. Check out this post:
"P9 at yesterday's world cup in Les Gets sounds as a bad day. But it wasn't. 
There was one proper mistake, without, all could be much different! Thats good to know. It was an eye opener, a kind of reminder. This will help me for the next two world cup races in few weeks. I'm excited already now for it! 
Have a nice weeks guys!"

Bring on the Valley of the Sun!


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

madfella said:


> I dunno, it's kinda entertaining and proves that the only argument you can win is the one you don't get into.
> 
> Btw, wonder why Fluckinger is so hot this season? I put it down to attitude. Check out this post:
> "P9 at yesterday's world cup in Les Gets sounds as a bad day. But it wasn't.
> ...


He is not doing great out of nowhere, last season he also had solid results, he is progressing in a manner similar to Avancini.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

So racing this weekend right?


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

Do you think there's significant potential to increase the popularity of the sport? The large media outlets (NBC, SI, etc) seem to do a pretty good job of manufacturing insta-heroes like Mikaela Shiffrin every four years for the olympics in otherwise relatively obscure sports. Granted, the names that become 'household' are usually US names: Lindsey Vonn, Shiffrin, Chloe Kim and so on, but Usain Bolt is not an American and he's well known. 

It seems like none of the xc racers get much burn as far as media coverage. The selection of "superstars" to promote seems largely random and unpredictable. Then again, the mtb community seems to demonstrate little interest in promoting itself to a larger audience.

There's nothing right or wrong about this: I don't believe in sports idol worship and I tend to think that playing the role of spectator is largely a waste of time. 

There are 2 likely explanations: racers and the industry have tried and the sport never caught on, or the racers and industry are largely satisfied with whatever income, endorsements and coverage they are currently receiving.

I suspect however, with concerted effort, there may be a larger pot of gold out there if people in the sport worked hard enough. Speculation on my part however.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Usain Bolt is the only name I recognise there.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Realistically you can't really compare skiing with mtb xc racing. Sure skiing doesn't mean much in US, but let's face it, there's quite a bit of world outside of US  And in Europe, skiing is big sport with long tradition. Even if you check winter Olympics, pretty much everything is about skiing, with few minor sports next to it 
In Europe, except for maybe few countries like Spain, Portugal, UK and few southern Mediterranean countries, pretty much ever country has live sending from skiing World cup races, and on top races, there's 100.000 spectators live (with several millions infront of TV). Next to that, skiing is pretty much top 1 recreational sport in Europe, which brings billions of eur every year through tourist and equipment.
Cycling on the other side is popular recreational sport in summer, and there's lot more and more mountain biking, but one thing is slowly riding around countryside, the other thing is top level racing. And honestly, top level mtb xc racing in Europe has no tradition and basically zero interest, which brings also (almost) zero media coverege and zero sponsorship money, which on the end also means there's no need for anyone to create "superstarts". But then again, the way mtb is handled you can't expect anything else anyway. If someone thinks 6 or 7 races a year, once every few weeks, with no media coverage will bring attention to sport, then you are dead wrong.
And that's why I said, you can't compare skiing with mtb xc. Skiing is properly handled, for 50+ years, constantly pushed in media, mtb racing is somethning what UCI would probably just cancel all in all so they wouldn't need to deal with it.


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

There is potential. 
1. You need sb with the potential to win a gold medal. Kate Courtney checks this box.
2. You need a relevant market: from a marketing perspective it's not only cyclists, but everybody who is willing to follow a story on tv, etc. 
3. You need great pictures of the story. Difficult... XCO racing usually happens somewhere in remote alpine valleys, thousands of trees. Red Bull coverage has come a long way but is still far from perfect. The best XCO race shot I have ever seen was (if I remember correctly) the camera that traced the riders up the hill in Hafjell worlds 2014. You could see Absalon and Nino going mano a mano. 
Races are still too long for the average sports enthusiast. I guess it would be much better to have some kind of a system that is structured like Eliminator races.
4. I don't see the difference between average cyclists and pro racers as a problem. As a former ski racer I know the difference between recreational skiers and racers is just as big. I think that holds true for almost every professional sport. My mums swimming is far away from Michael Phelp's


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

westernmtb said:


> Do you think there's significant potential to increase the popularity of the sport? The large media outlets (NBC, SI, etc) seem to do a pretty good job of manufacturing insta-heroes like Mikaela Shiffrin every four years for the olympics in otherwise relatively obscure sports. Granted, the names that become 'household' are usually US names: Lindsey Vonn, Shiffrin, Chloe Kim and so on, but Usain Bolt is not an American and he's well known.
> 
> It seems like none of the xc racers get much burn as far as media coverage. The selection of "superstars" to promote seems largely random and unpredictable. Then again, the mtb community seems to demonstrate little interest in promoting itself to a larger audience.
> 
> ...


I would guess that Kate Courtney's team is all over this, and is formulating, or has, a strategy in-place for the year leading up to the 2020 Olympics. The Olympics and Olympic years are THE (only) time to gain increased visibility and popularity, outside of the core sport enthusiasts. She is very active on social media, and I'd imagine will be working on multiple platforms to raise the awareness of her story and "brand." I would think she is quite marketable.

All that said, she absolutely has to perform. The story only works on the level that is being discussed if she wins the championship again this year. THEN, you have a compelling narrative going into the Olympics.

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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

waltaz said:


> All that said, she absolutely has to perform. The story only works on the level that is being discussed if she wins the championship again this year. THEN, you have a compelling narrative going into the Olympics.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I disagree. For sheer marketing purposes a failed attempt at worlds would be as good as or even better for the story. It's like an inverted aristotelian dramatic piece: from top to bottom and up again in Tokyo.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

chilla13 said:


> I disagree. For sheer marketing purposes a failed attempt at worlds would be as good as or even better for the story. It's like an inverted aristotelian dramatic piece: from top to bottom and up again in Tokyo.


Fair enough; I can see that also. Either story works, spun properly.

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

JayDee81 said:


> He just doesn't feel good. He is still training and he was racing the European championship (31. place), but he says he doesn't 'feel it', that he can't push the watts he used to.
> What is notable is that he finished the race in Brno, which goes against his standard. Props for that.


I started to think about Kulhavy's struggles and haven't got a grasp of it yet. It's been rumored that he lacks motivation, bad attitude or whatever reason, but I think it goes a bit deeper, and maybe, just maybe, equipment related.

Here are some thoughts on this matter:
1. 2011 was the year he dominated and decimated the field. How? He blasted away from the field right from the start. But doing some solid research, you will see he was one of maybe 10 riders in the whole circuit on a full suspension 29'er. Equipment advantage? Probably...
2. 2012 - he out foxed Nino on the last turn of the Olympic race...plain and simple...
3. Couple of years went by were he dominated marathon type racing like the Cape Epic, while also winning a rainbow jersey in Marathon.
4. Was it 2015 when he last won? I think he won two WC races that year...
5. From that point on, XCO race have become so explosive that everybody has changed everything, from how they train, race, equipment, tracks, etc. Maybe Kulhavy did got on that wave...
6. Huge turbo diesel engine vs. small hybrid electric & supercharged engines...(bad analogy???)


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

IN regards to Kulhavy... I think there is some serious "unrest" in the Specialized team... Even before the current injuries the team was pretty underwhelming. there was more than one occasion where people withdrew if they werent having the "perfect" race...
Seems motivation was pretty low. 
Purely conjecture, but I reckon somethings up...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

WRXJIM said:


> IN regards to Kulhavy... I think there is some serious "unrest" in the Specialized team... Even before the current injuries the team was pretty underwhelming. there was more than one occasion where people withdrew if they werent having the "perfect" race...
> Seems motivation was pretty low.
> Purely conjecture, but I reckon somethings up...


He's not on the Specialized team anymore...

Has his own thing this year.

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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

For a little bit of perspective on the relative popularity of xc mtb vs more or less 'mainstream' sports, here are some Insta numbers.

Ever heard of *Joanna Jedrzejczyk*? Most likely not. She's a former 115 pound UFC champion. She has a staggering *1.5 Million* followers. And this woman is in no way shape or form a household name.

*Jon Jones*, the current UFC LHW champion, has *4.2 million* followers.

*Lebron James* has nearly* 51 million* followers.

In comparison, *Jolanda Neff *has a mere *270K* followers. *Nino* just *434K*.

Using this metric, the *top xc mtb riders have approximately 1/10th the popularity of UFC champions, and 1/100th of the popularity of top NBA players.*

I tend to believe that bike racing is viewed as a participatory sport by athletes who view themselves as an "elite" and don't care much to promote the sport to a general audience in the way as the UFC or MLB or the NBA.

Aside from that, two of the most pressing issues for the sport's visibility include:

1.* the low number of events*. There are only 7 world cups Even factoring in nationals, the world championship and the euro championship, that's still only 10 events total. With preseason and playoffs, even the NFL plays up to 23 games a season.

2. *none of the events is located in a large city*. All of the events are tucked away in the forests of some small European town. The races are tucked away in a small hidden nook of a small hidden nook.

I don't think mtb racing HAS to be popular to be enjoyable to watch, but anything's possible. The NBA finals used to be televised on tape delay and attendance was often as low as 3,000 per game. Now, most games are sold out and the NBA is firmly ensconced as a top 3 spectator sport in the US.


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

Le Duke said:


> He's not on the Specialized team anymore...
> 
> Has his own thing this year.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well there ya go. 
I thought he still had at least another year on his contract?


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

westernmtb said:


> For a little bit of perspective on the relative popularity of xc mtb vs more or less 'mainstream' sports, here are some Insta numbers.
> 
> Ever heard of *Joanna Jedrzejczyk*? Most likely not. She's a former 115 pound UFC champion. She has a staggering *1.5 Million* followers. And this woman is in no way shape or form a household name.
> 
> ...


Yeah, events are in small european towns in THE MOUNTAINS because this is MTB XCO...
I dont want to watch XCO in downtown NYC....


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

We are still in the hangover period after the early 90s, when the sport was televised poorly, races were terribly designed for television (giant fire road climbs, 2+ hour races) and nobody wanted to watch so sports execs and general ad buyers aren’t interested in investing in that again. As they gradually die off/retire and the sport’s image improves with RedBull TV etc then this has a chance of changing. Some marketable phenomenal star could help change it for the better but only if there is some serious money behind it. In 2016 the MTB race was broadcast at 2am in the US if memory serves. Maybe it will be different if NBC thinks Kate has a chance at gold. 

It’s amusing to read the complaints about low popularity in Europe. In Switzerland the SwissCup races and some world cups and World Champs are shown on live TV. (Here they are shortened to 30 minutes and shown a week later On NBCSN.)

Most successful niche sports like WWF and UFC make a ton of money because they are controlled by a for-profit business that has the incentive to market them. Major sports like NFL/MLB/NBA all have leagues controlled by the for-profit teams that exist to market the sport and the teams. There ain’t no such thing for cycling. 

And no, the sniping wasn’t entertaining. Please take that crap elsewhere.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

chilla13 said:


> I disagree. For sheer marketing purposes a failed attempt at worlds would be as good as or even better for the story. It's like an inverted aristotelian dramatic piece: from top to bottom and up again in Tokyo.


In today's world, I don't think so. Today everything what counts is victory, and people don't want to see losers. Majority of people has enough of losers every morning when they wake up and see themself in mirror, knowing most of them didn't do anything with their life, and that's why all this Facebook/Instagram **** of is bluming so much. As there life is perfect, everyone are smiling and everyone are without problems, so cool to see when you think your own life is misery. And that's reason, why I think failed attempt wouldn't cut.


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

primoz said:


> In today's world, I don't think so. Today everything what counts is victory, and people don't want to see losers. Majority of people has enough of losers every morning when they wake up and see themself in mirror, knowing most of them didn't do anything with their life, and that's why all this Facebook/Instagram **** of is bluming so much. As there life is perfect, everyone are smiling and everyone are without problems, so cool to see when you think your own life is misery. And that's reason, why I think failed attempt wouldn't cut.


Well, Jenny Rissveds will show. But after all: I don't really care. I like my riding as it is today. Riding a bike up mountains, down washed out pathes, compete with friends and sharing this experience with them is much more important to me than some Nino guy winning almost every race he attends.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Skarhead said:


> Yeah, events are in small european towns in THE MOUNTAINS because this is MTB XCO...
> I dont want to watch XCO in downtown NYC....


This is true, but if I look a bit on previously mentioned skiing (especially since I spent more then half of my life in top level pro skiing), you have races in some "small European towns" too. But there's difference between noname village and village called Kitzbuehel or St. Moritz  
Just for info. Kitzbuehel weekend costs about 8mio eur. That's weekend from Friday to Sunday with 3 WC races). Just in that weekend, Kitzbuehel and surrounding villages make around 50mio eur turnover (tickets, drinks and food, accomodation...). Now compare this to mtb xc race in let's say Val di Sole or Les Gets, and you can see why even in US they make skiers like Bode Miller, Lindsey Vonn or Mikaela Shiffrin super starts with few millions USD income/year (still nothing compared to soccer players etc.), while Nino Schurter earns less then average salary in Switzerland is.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

primoz said:


> while Nino Schurter earns less then average salary in Switzerland is.


Any source to back up this claim?

The median salary (don't know about the average one) in Switzerland is about 6500$ per month. In 2010, as a world champion and Olympic medalist, Nino was supposedly already earning more than half a million dollars per year.

I would have no problem to believe that's the case for riders such as Lukas Flückiger, Thomas Litscher, or Matthias Stirnemann, but Nino? No way.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Sam Gaze just announced he will be racing for DQS on the road this year. Interesting.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Sam Gaze just announced he will be racing for DQS on the road this year. Interesting.


Are they sending him to La Vuelta?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Train Wreck said:


> Are they sending him to La Vuelta?


I'd hope not. That might kill him.

I'd guess he'll do some of the Italian one day races this fall.

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Sam Gaze just announced he will be racing for DQS on the road this year. Interesting.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not surprised. Sam Gaze is the only guy in the MTB field who can out sprint MVDP in a short track. I am sure that after watching MVDP "relatively" struggle in XC racing road teams are looking at XC racers


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

LMN said:


> Not surprised. Sam Gaze is the only guy in the MTB field who can out sprint MVDP in a short track. I am sure that after watching MVDP "relatively" struggle in XC racing road teams are looking at XC racers


Do we really know where MVDP's priorities are? I don't imagine he'll be at peak performance at any time during the world cup season unless he's trying to transition away from CX. As you mentioned, CX is where the money is and I can't imagine he doesn't intend to defend his title. I attribute his struggles to not being on form, but this is all speculation on my part.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Women's Short Track was pretty good, looking forward to the men's race with the muddy conditions. If MVDP doesn't lap everyone, I will be rather disappointed.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Interesting women short track race. 

I wonder if Kate was 10th due to equipment and conditions, she was racing a hardtail. Neff and Sina on full susp. and PFP on hardtail as well. However those top 3 have ample experience racing in muddy conditions while Kate doesn't. 

Either way, I think Kate will still be strong on Sunday, despite blowing up today. 


On another note, MVDP fanaticism is ridiculous, unhealthy and brings discord everywhere. I wonder why his fans are generally toxic, when he himself seems respectful toward others despite his own success.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Train Wreck said:


> Do we really know where MVDP's priorities are? I don't imagine he'll be at peak performance at any time during the world cup season unless he's trying to transition away from CX. As you mentioned, CX is where the money is and I can't imagine he doesn't intend to defend his title. I attribute his struggles to not being on form, but this is all speculation on my part.


Or the level in mountain biking is really high.

At the tour this year both the yellow and green Jersey were won by riders who started the career as mountain bikers.
Currently many of best riders in the world are coming from mountain biking. And some of the best riders in the world are staying in mountain biking.

Plus mountain biking is a climbers sport. Most of the MTBers who switch to road end up being contenders in grand tours. Mvdp is a big guy, not your typical climbers build.


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## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

TDLover said:


> On another note, MVDP fanaticism is ridiculous, unhealthy and brings discord everywhere. I wonder why his fans are generally toxic, when he himself seems respectful toward others despite his own success.


Elaborate? I don't see it.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

PoshJosh said:


> Elaborate? I don't see it.


The Dutch are quite passionate and supportive of their athletic heroes.


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## meschenbruch (Jan 15, 2017)

Anyone notice how much wider MVPs tyres looked compared to Avancini?


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Wow, that attack from MVDP on the last lap, he really is exceptional on those short uphills.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Sam Gaze has been signed as a trainee by Deceuninck – Quick-Step.
He's still targeting MTB at the Olympics though.


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## pamoreira (Jan 6, 2016)

bananajoe said:


> Any source to back up this claim?
> 
> The median salary (don't know about the average one) in Switzerland is about 6500$ per month. In 2010, as a world champion and Olympic medalist, Nino was supposedly already earning more than half a million dollars per year.
> 
> I would have no problem to believe that's the case for riders such as Lukas Flückiger, Thomas Litscher, or Matthias Stirnemann, but Nino? No way.


Having lived in Switzerland, it's completely unrealistic that he earns below average. He's making way more than a normal middle-class income.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

meschenbruch said:


> Anyone notice how much wider MVPs tyres looked compared to Avancini?


I haven't seen a great photo yet, but I think he was still using Ikons.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

I thought we were going to see VDP ride away from the field right from the gun like he did all season in CX. 

The coverage was a bit disappointing though, especially for a short track course. The only DH feature they showed us was those man made rollers. I wish they did a bit more to display the technical features and the skill of these riders.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

bananajoe said:


> Any source to back up this claim?
> I would have no problem to believe that's the case for riders such as Lukas Flückiger, Thomas Litscher, or Matthias Stirnemann, but Nino? No way.


A bit of exaggeration, I admit that, but there was article in one of Swiss newspapers some 2 years ago (I tried to find some online link few days/weeks ago, but couldn't), where it was also about his "salary" (not just main contract but sum of all contracts), and it was written it's in low 6 figures. Now of course that can mean anything from 100.000chf to 499.999chf, but for half million chf I doubt they would write "low 6 figures". But of course it's possible. But either way, even if he would get 0.5mio chf/year, it's still nothing much compared to what he means in mtb and especially compared to athletes from other sports. And I'm not talking football here (soccer for you guys).


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## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

Based off what I know a few topish riders are making, I can guarantee Nino is closer to the 500k mark than 100k mark, if not over it. Newspapers can be wrong


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> I'd hope not. That might kill him.
> 
> I'd guess he'll do some of the Italian one day races this fall.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He's our national crit champ the last 2 years.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Val di Sole XC track looks great, they keep improving it, I remember it being a pretty tame climbing course, but this year looks one of the best so far.

DH track was amazing as well, definitely some effort put into it.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

WOW, how good was that! Womens XC racing is great.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Wow. The women's race made the Hungarian F1 race look boring, that was an amazing nail biter with Ferrand Prevot and Neff. And Catharine Pendrel in the top 10. With Haley Smith's finish well ahead of Batty, that has got to be putting Batty's 2020 Canadian Olympic spot in greater jeopardy if she doesn't have a big turn around in the next month.


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

MVDP absolutely monstered that last lap. His power on the climbs is mind blowing especially when you consider Val di Sole is considered more a proper climbers course as opposed to a power climbers course which is where MVDP generally excels. He is something truly special that's for sure. Believe the hype. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

rockyuphill said:


> Wow. The women's race made the Hungarian F1 race look boring, that was an amazing nail biter with Ferrand Prevot and Neff. And Catharine Pendrel in the top 10. With Haley Smith's finish well ahead of Batty, that has got to be putting Batty's 2020 Canadian Olympic spot in greater jeopardy if she doesn't have a big turn around in the next month.


Loved it! What a battle between Neff and PFP at the end, so happy to see PFP back at the very top of the sport, contesting for wins and enjoying racing.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

The women race was very entertaining, even field, Jolanda taking that A line every time had me on the edge. Impressive ride by Rissveds and PFP had the upper hand till the end, well deserved victory. 

Awful day for Kate, we will see how she recovers from that. Neff will be the new leader and surely will have the upper mental game. 

The men race was decided very quickly with the 3 top runners doing an impossible pace for everyone else. Despite that, the fight was even until last lap.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I like how Neff was taking that drop even tighter/steeper than Nino and Lucas (well it looked steeper anyway)


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

daveinaus said:


> Loved it! What a battle between Neff and PFP at the end, so happy to see PFP back at the very top of the sport, contesting for wins and enjoying racing.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Noticed that PFP started sprinting in a much higher gear and Neff ran out of revs and gave up.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Great fight yesterday especially for the women's but also for the men, great for the sport. Fine performance by PFP but totally impressed by Rissveds to be able to not complain at the start position (like most others that are starting from behind) and then just go for it. So composed and focused during the races, could be a surprise for the Champs.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

I only wish one day I could look as smooth on a bike as Rissveds. Great race all around.


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## lookingbackon40 (May 10, 2016)

How much different is the Val di Sole course year over year. 

Last year Emily Batty was 2nd place with 1:31 time, 9 seconds back from the winner. This year she is 39th place with a 1:31:35. so only 35 seconds slower but 9+ minutes back from the winner. (She was 1:31:55 in 2017)

Kate was 1:32:32 last year in 7th. This year, 5 min faster at 1:27:13 but 17th place.

It looks like most people were 5-6 min faster, with the winners being 9 min faster. 

How much of that increase is the course conditions and how much just riders going faster? Most of the courses this year the riders have been much faster.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

lookingbackon40 said:


> How much different is the Val di Sole course year over year.


Very.



lookingbackon40 said:


> How much of that increase is the course conditions


Impossible to state numerically, but I'll vote for most or all of the difference is course layout and conditions.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

lookingbackon40 said:


> How much different is the Val di Sole course year over year.
> 
> Last year Emily Batty was 2nd place with 1:31 time, 9 seconds back from the winner. This year she is 39th place with a 1:31:35. so only 35 seconds slower but 9+ minutes back from the winner. (She was 1:31:55 in 2017)
> 
> ...


The course was different, those times don't compare. Last year winners are probably as fast as this year's winners.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The 2019 course was 300m longer and had 30m more elevation gain

2018 course









2019 course


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

I have a suspicion that Nino and Kate are still recovering from a hard training period. Both of them posted pics from being in Italy and reference training camps. 

I'm guessing these two chose to show up at this race a little suppressed from a hard training period. This will probably pay off at world champs. 

Nino is one of the best "peak riders" ever IMO. Kate seems like she is good at it too. 

At this level, you can't be good at every race. You have to pick and choose your efforts and a hard training camp with lots of volume 4 weeks before a champs seems like a good idea to me (if you want to WIN)


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

xcskier66 said:


> I have a suspicion that Nino and Kate are still recovering from a hard training period. Both of them posted pics from being in Italy and reference training camps.
> 
> I'm guessing these two chose to show up at this race a little suppressed from a hard training period. This will probably pay off at world champs.
> 
> ...


I would bet that is the case. I am sure both of them came into this race with a significant training load.. of course so did everybody else.

I would not be surprised though if Kate has problems finding the earlier season form again this season. She has been the best in the world for a long time this year and that peak form does fade.


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## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

Both races were fantastic.

I agree with LMN, I think Kate will really struggle to regain top form. Neff said she was targeting the World Champs and expected to start slow and build during the season. That seems to be how it's playing out. The twist is PFP coming on form post surgery. She must have been suffering from issues related to the artery condition for years. So, now we get to see her at her actual top level. I suspect she'll be a regular on the podium again. Jenny looked incredible. So calm and controlled, she just relaxed and climbed at her own pace. I imagine, if she stays consistent she will also be a regular on the podium again. 

It's also tough watching Belomoina struggle with the hard starts with poor positions from the short track. Obviously, she skipped this one due to illness. It does seem that she has been one of the most negatively effected from the new addition of short track. Like crit racing, the short track is more about raw watts than w/kg. The smaller riders generally suffer more. There are definitely exceptions, but at 46kg, Belomoina obviously, produces considerably less power than a fit Annika, for example.

The short track has really changed the game. Bigger, more powerful riders have far more chances to take serious points. It's a very significant change, one that would probably never happen in a more established sport. Could you imagine them suddenly lowering the basket height to 8 feet in basketball? Never going to happen. The addition of short track is akin to that sort of change as it's half of the overall points and sets the start grid.

I'm in two minds about it. I love the extra racing and some of it has been great viewing. However, I don't think it was very well thought out, as the courses have been terrible, with some tiny exceptions. I wonder if the UCI are even aware that the short track courses are barely MTBn? 

Personally, I'd like to see dramatically more effort made to include more technical sections and at least one hard technical climb in every short track course. I'd also reduce the points available to at least half what they are. The current arrangement is having far too much influence on the overall standings. Focus on the main event, the actual XC race!

Rant over...

Oh, the men's race was fun too. Stunned that MVDP won on what is basically a climbers course. Given he is a big guy for an XC racer, does gravity just not effect him?


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

xcskier66 said:


> At this level, you can't be good at every race. You have to pick and choose your efforts and a hard training camp with lots of volume 4 weeks before a champs seems like a good idea to me (if you want to WIN)


With this, I don't entirely agree. Considering your nickname, I assume we both come from same sport, and for xc skiing, I would agree totally. But in xc skiing World cup, there's 40 races in less then 4 months time. For that, I agree you can't be at top form all season long. With mtb xc, you have 7 WC race plus WCH, which means 8 races in time frame of 5 months. For that, I would dare to argue, that you can easily be in top shape on every single race, especially with timing of the race when you have blocks of 2 races with 1 month or more space between these blocks. For that, I'm pretty sure peaking form for each race should be easily possible. 
But then again, of course you can have bad day, even if you are in top form, and with so little races, one bad day shows even more. With info we are operating with here, it's impossible to say what was reason for "bad" performance. Maybe it was just bad day, maybe certain track/weather/conditions/whatever doesn't fit, and when you have 5 or 6 guys or girls on same level, smallest thing that doesn't fit means you are out of game.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

^ yeah, the short track is 50/50. 
I like that there is more racing, it's definitely action packed and stuff. I like that it sets the start for the XCO race, mixes it up.
I don't necessarily like the course, but then haven't ridden them, im sure they are harder than they look, but they don't look too hard, or mtb-y. I don't like that there are SO many points, 1/3 would be better than 1/2 half of XCO.

I'd still prefer a 10sec start TT, 1 lap of the XCO course instead...or as well 

But really at the end of the day, it's all good and the only real complaint I have is that it blows through more on my not exciting internet quota for the month, which just tells me I need to upgrade.


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

I think that KC lost a bit of her momentum due to not being very confident in the technical parts of the track. I really thought it was a curious decision to race the hardtail when I saw her at the XCC on friday. She is an ok rider in the tech but Yolanda,PFP and some others have superior skills in that regard. You could see it when they climbed up the rock section in the XCO on sunday.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Regarding XCC... it depends why they started to run it. If main intention is to make better media product out of xc mtb, then I'm sure they are on great course. Realistically, today noone cares about 1.5h long races, and even less about some marathon races. Now if things are not through in 15 or 20min, it's just too boring for media, and especially TV. And let's face it, TV is all that counts. You can't compare any of "normal" sports with something like football, basketball or hockey. Even US football is basically noname sport out of US. But if you refrain from comparing "normal" sports with these few worldwide top selling sports, you will see everyone are moving into short and fast formats. And like it or not, it's the only way.
I'm coming from xc skiing, and when sprint races started everyone in skiing were against, like it's not real skiing. Today, sprint races are probably more then half of calendar, and they cut real bad on long 30km or 50km disciplines, as it's impossible to sell that product. 
Same goes for mtb. If you want to sell this to wider audience, you need fast, energetic, action packed product. And 1.5h race, where pretty much each rider is riding for him/herself in middle of woods is not that. XCC on other hand has lot of potential for that.
If looking straight from mountain biker view, of course XCC has nothing to do with "real" mountain biking. But then we can argue that anything but real marathon races is not real mountainbike. But I would still say, if looking straight from biker's view, then we don't care about races anyway and we go out riding ourself. For races, media attention should be main goal, not what those few mtbikers, that would go out and ride regardless, think about.


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

mik_git said:


> I don't like that there are SO many points, 1/3 would be better than 1/2 half of XCO.
> 
> I'd still prefer a 10sec start TT, 1 lap of the XCO course instead...or as well


Totally agree

A single lap of the XCO track would make it fair for everyone, while making the points haul more appropriate.

I do love getting to watch 4 races in a weekend though


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## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

Primoz. Superb post. I very much agree with you. I'm not sure what I would do if I was in charge of the sport. What I wouldn't do, is have the riders compete on the current bland XCC courses. I'd certainly attempt to make them more interesting. 

I haven't given it a great deal of thought, re fundamental changes, but I'm a billion percent certain I could easily deliver a better video product than the current coverage (I'm in the film business).

The caveat being, it would cost considerably more money. Who pays for that is the complex part.

A few things I'd immediately add to the coverage.

- Superior camera equipment in 4K (current broadcast equipment is of poor quality)
- 300+ frame per second immediate slow motion of dramatic moments
- Live, on bike forward and reward facing cameras
- Athlete's live stats inc HR, 5s Watts, Average Watts from last 1min, speed etc...
- Other fun angles, like race drones chasing riders etc
- Far more shoulder rider content. There's so little information, we need narratives.
- Essentially, bring the coverage up to the standard of larger sports.

On overall time. I'm aware that virtually everything is about fast content. The overall length is not a huge concern if the quality is very high. The highest ranked TV show on Earth is anything but fast paced. Yet, tens of millions watch it. Like any sporting event, no matter how well you cover it, the action is dictated by the competitors. Some races are good. Others are not.

I personally enjoy short super fast MTB races under an hour, so I would have no issue with say 1hr races. I do think this may actually be a mistake. The last 30 mins of many XC races are where we often see the race turn, the momentum shift etc. Would we lose that in 1 hr races? Possibly. The racing would likely be closer with the shorter distance, but maybe not long enough for struggling riders to come back for a late race victory. 

I just don't know. What I would do if I was the organizer is experiment. I don't think they should be afraid to change things up. Finding the perfect race and TV broadcast length just needs some experimentation. 

We may find that the absolute perfect length is a 1hr 15min race with 7.5mins of coverage pre and post event. A tight 1.5hr event. I'd be on board with that.

That would be my first guesstimate.


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## kylepeveto (Apr 25, 2006)

I saw Cink and Sarrou arguing on Instagram about the crash after the start. Cink posted a photo of himself in the pits holding his helmet, which he said saved his life. Sarrou posted in the comments and said, "If yo uwant to imperil your life, no pb! but please don't put in danger other athlete please." They agreed to talk about it in person. 

I didn't get a clear look at what happened. Did Cink deviate from his line?


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

In the RedBull pre-season show last year, I believe it was Simon Burney that said the teams wanted another race, so that is why short track was added. The teams include a huge expense getting to races, so add another race to get more coverage etc. I am sure it was also to try to mix up the results and make it harder for Nino to dominate the men's race, which some probably felt was hurting the sport. I think the short track is weighted with points so top riders have to participate, otherwise I'm sure some would choose to sit it out (didn't Jenny R sit out?).

Short track also replaced the Eliminator races, which were also short, but the top racers did not participate, just the specialists. So the new format features the top racers in the sport, which is a good thing.

I too am thankful there is more racing to watch and follow, but my fear was it would just basically be a cyclocross course most races. Wide, fast, non technical. I agree a more technical climb and decent would be more interesting. 

Some of the full XCO courses look too tame and wide for MTB. Going to an all wide course with mostly man made features, boring climbs and very little singletrack. A few years ago when they started adding the man made technical features, some riders got injuries. That was not good either.

I wish there was more overall single track, with natural trails. Not cart paths up the hill & terrain park on the way down counting as the technical. I realize the results would probably still be the same most races, but I do find the actual trails kinda boring.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

kevbikemad said:


> I haven't seen a great photo yet, but I think he was still using Ikons.


Ikon's on Friday and Aspen on Sunday...


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

chilla13 said:


> I think that KC lost a bit of her momentum due to not being very confident in the technical parts of the track. I really thought it was a curious decision to race the hardtail when I saw her at the XCC on friday. She is an ok rider in the tech but Yolanda,PFP and some others have superior skills in that regard. You could see it when they climbed up the rock section in the XCO on sunday.


She was struggling mightily on the climbs as well. Compare her technique to Rissveds, who spins as smoothly as a precision machine.

Kate benefited a lot in the first half of the season riding on very smooth, non technical courses.

She also benefited from so many top riders being out of action or far from peak form for a variety of reasons. With Rissveds and Prevot returning to form, with far more technical courses like Val di Sole, and races at altitude, Courtney has dropped back. Interestingly, she didn't have to travel from the US this time, yet she still struggled.

I don't see any area in which Courtney is clearly better than the field. Riders like Belamoina and Rissveds are superior climbers. Jolanda is clearly superior in technical sections and in the downhill. Prevot can ride aggressively at the front from pole to pole and win a race. It seems like the more difficult the conditions, the more she struggles.

This is the first season that I've followed xc racing and while I find red bull's coverage to be terrific, the homerism of their lead announcer is getting really ridiculous. He favors Kate so much and so blatantly, it actually becomes comical when she struggles. Instead of getting amped by great rides from others, he becomes morose and sullen and occasionally vindictive. He takes constant and frequent jabs at Jolanda Neff in particular, who coincidentally is Courtney's main rival this year and the current overall WC points leader. It's become tactless and tasteless but also quite funny at the same time.

It's a small glimpse of how the media apparatus attempts to shape public opinion and taste. From the comments in this thread, apparently it's working.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

westernmtb said:


> She was struggling mightily on the climbs as well. Compare her technique to Rissveds, who spins as smoothly as a precision machine.
> 
> Kate benefited a lot in the first half of the season riding on very smooth, non technical courses.
> 
> ...


Here's the thing about XC(O) racing:

It's a combination of skills and talents that make someone a contender. If the races were only about climbing fast, Belomoina would be winning every race. If the races were only about going downhill fast, someone from the DH scene would be killing it. But neither of those are true, so it's a matter of being great at both.

And, comparing how they appear, visually, is a pretty poor way of going about it. Kate looked like her normal self when she went sailed past Rissveds on her way to the win in Les Gets, and Rissveds looked visibly smoother. But at the end of the day, Rissveds ended up 2:24 behind her.

Personally, I wouldn't take a poor race weekend as a hint of anything to come. Kate struggled at Andorra, and people were writing her off as done, in this thread. Then she came back and laid the wood to the field in both races at Les Gets. She has five (5) wins this year between XCO and XCC. She also crushed all of the people who you think are better than her at the most important race of 2018.


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## Udyr (Jul 29, 2013)

You guys are funny.

KC winning a World Championship, 3 World Cups in XCO and two in short track and somehow trying to rationalize it that it's because the level of competition wasn't there. 

Please tell me where y'all are getting the good stuff, because I need to smoke some of it.


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

Le Duke said:


> Here's the thing about XC(O) racing:
> 
> It's a combination of skills and talents that make someone a contender. If the races were only about climbing fast, Belomoina would be winning every race. If the races were only about going downhill fast, someone from the DH scene would be killing it. But neither of those are true, so it's a matter of being great at both.
> 
> ...


Kate had a podium and top 10 at Andorra, not really "struggling." 10th and 17th place finishes, 5+ minutes back from the winner is struggling.

Rissveds is not anywhere near her peak form. She has only raced in 4 World Cup races in the past 3 years.

Also, a bit of an exaggeration to say she "crushed" all of the people who "I think are better than her."

First, I simply stated that they were absent, injured, or not at peak form for obvious reasons, not that they are clearly superior.

Second, Langvad led most of the race at the world championship until she crashed. So, do you mean Kate crushed the competition, or that she crashed the competition? lol.

It's difficult to maintain pace when you've been bloodied after a serious crash (or crush?) no?



Udyr said:


> You guys are funny.
> 
> KC winning a World Championship, 3 World Cups in XCO and two in short track and somehow trying to rationalize it that it's because the level of competition wasn't there.
> 
> Please tell me where y'all are getting the good stuff, because I need to smoke some of it.


1. 3x world champ Prevot said she had been suffering "inexplicable pain" in her leg for 4 years. She was out for the first 4 months of this year after major surgery. Curious that now she is fully recovered she is on the top step of the podium.

Are you calling Prevot a liar and she is just making this stuff up? Perhaps her doctors brainwashed her into believing surgery was necessary so they could make a few extra dollars?

Ferrand-Prevot out for four months with iliac artery endofibrosis | Cyclingnews.com

2. Langvad was just making stuff up on her Instagram saying she was spent from racing in the offseason. She was sipping cappuccino all winter watching Netflix instead? Her broken hand must have been CGI, too.

3. Or perhaps olympic champ Rissveds raced a full schedule the past two seasons in a cloaking device all along. Hmmm.

4. Alessandra Keller, U23 world champion did not break both wrists mid season?

5. Maybe Courtney actually did fly back to the US for nationals, but decided "nah I'mma chill and watch the race from the stands" then flew back to Italy and was jet lagged.

6. Maybe Tauber didn't have a mechanical while she was in 1st place?

7. Are you saying short track winner Chloe Woodruff didn't miss multiple World Cups?

8. Malene Degn with a top 10 and top 5 finish this year did not suffer a severe midseason crash?

Please tell me where y'all are getting the good stuff, because I need to smoke some of it.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Personally, I wouldn't take a poor race weekend as a hint of anything to come. Kate struggled at Andorra, and people were writing her off as done, in this thread. Then she came back and laid the wood to the field in both races at Les Gets. She has five (5) wins this year between XCO and XCC. She also crushed all of the people who you think are better than her at the most important race of 2018.


I can speculate either way on Kate's form in the coming races. And that is all I can do is speculate.

If I was guessing I would say she pushed her last training block really close to the Val De Sol World Cup. Probably, hoping that 2-3 days of recovery would be enough, which obviously it was not. The unknown is if that form will return when she sheds some fatigue.

And the other factor is there has been some riders not packing their best form this season. With Jolanda, Pauline and Jenny returning to the top form even an on form Kate is going to have to battle to win.

It is a long time ago now, but when Catharine was having her way with fields, she found it difficult when the big event riders (Maja, Irina, Sabine) would all of sudden be matching her on climbs. It shakes your confidence when you go from being the strongest to amongst the strongest.

All that aside Kate has had an amazing season. With the season she has had the norm is to fade at the end. Over the last dozen years just about every single rider who has had a season as good as hers has faded at the end. In the women's field the last time a rider was World Champion and World Cup overall champion was 2007 (Irina Kalentieva).


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

LMN said:


> I can speculate either way on Kate's form in the coming races. And that is all I can do is speculate.
> 
> If I was guessing I would say she pushed her last training block really close to the Val De Sol World Cup. Probably, hoping that 2-3 days of recovery would be enough, which obviously it was not. The unknown is if that form will return when she sheds some fatigue.
> 
> ...


The competition will become far more intense from here on out. As the Olympics approach, riders will be far more motivated and focused.

1. Prevot appears to be fully recovered after finally being properly diagnosed and successful surgery.

2. Rissveds has regained her form with astonishing speed. I don't think she's near peak form at all, actually.

3. Jolanda has been the most consistent rider in the women's field and her astonishing ability to recover mid-race means she can never be counted out.

4. Keller will continue to improve.

5. Tauber was very close to winning a World Cup.

6. Belamoina is a consistent threat.

7. Langvad is an x-factor as well if she can recover her previous form.

Kate benefited from a 'perfect storm' of opponent injuries, absences, as well as easy courses and lack of altitude. If she is not able to adapt to far more intense competition and much more severe and exacting race conditions, the field could chew her up and spit her out the back.

With the world championship and olympics in view, the field is going to get much more determined and stronger. No more "one extra taco and beer" mentality from earlier in the season.

Courtney has enjoyed a lot of adulation from the media this season: but that's a double edged sword. This means the rest of the field will be that much more determined to get a piece of the pie.


----------



## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

I never wanted to write Kate off. I was just questioning her decision to take the Scale instead of the Spark.


----------



## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

I hope Kate wins this weekend to quiet this nonsense down...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

kevbikemad said:


> Some of the full XCO courses look too tame and wide for MTB. Going to an all wide course with mostly man made features, boring climbs and very little singletrack.boring.


And then MVDP came along and fixed the boring climbs by ignoring gravity and treating them as though they were flat.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

I wonder how much the top teams look into the rider's numbers before signing a rider? I wonder is Scott for example did any fitness testing and wanted to see numbers before signing KC? They obviously know what the numbers need to be to be at the top. 


I finally watched the full Women's race and KC sure looked like she was just suffering all race. Her poor results had nothing to do with the bike at all.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

kevbikemad said:


> I wonder how much the top teams look into the rider's numbers before signing a rider? I wonder is Scott for example did any fitness testing and wanted to see numbers before signing KC? They obviously know what the numbers need to be to be at the top.


I would say that rainbow jersey is probably sufficient enough proof of potential. 

As for numbers, number are interesting. Good numbers are predictors of form but there are riders without the numbers who do very well. I think that an on form Emily Batty and Joland Neff can't quite do the same watts/kg as their competition. They however make up for that with incredible efficiency on the bike and well timed efforts.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

kevbikemad said:


> I wonder how much the top teams look into the rider's numbers before signing a rider? I wonder is Scott for example did any fitness testing and wanted to see numbers before signing KC? They obviously know what the numbers need to be to be at the top.


This question (about fitness testing specifically)was posed to Johan Bruyneel on The Move podcast during Le Tour. Answer: no. Explanation: to LMN's comment - "we look at results. And everyone knows those results. Fitness testing is meaningless when signing a pro to your team."

Bruyneel's podcasts were incredibly insightful, far more so than the Armstrong/Hincapie podcast. Bruyneel accurately predicted the dynamics and outcome of each stage, as well as the overall GC winner.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

PoshJosh said:


> I hope Kate wins this weekend to quiet this nonsense down...


If she will, it will probably be just pure luck. Or god knows what other reason he will find to write that off. I mean winning 5 races out of 10 is just pure luck. If someone wins 50% of races, you really can't consider she would be any good, she just had luck


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Such a cool shot. Training and course marking with Nino, Kate's living the dream for sure. That ain't luck. That's the direct result of preparation meeting opportunity. For anyone to say any different is just...small.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

westernmtb said:


> VDP was 3 kph faster than Jolanda at Les Gets. He took two minutes less to complete a course that was 3.6 km longer. That was not even a good race for VDP: he finished 16th.
> 
> Do you feel better about yourself now that you are informed of the facts?


Several people in this thread have wives that are faster than you.

Do you feel better about yourself now that you are informed of the facts?


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

FJSnoozer said:


> Several people in this thread have wives that are faster than you.
> 
> Do you feel better about yourself now that you are informed of the facts?


And yet, any man of average athletic ability training the same number of hours will be much faster.

Does anyone realistically believe the best athletes enter xc racing? Bicycle racing is very expensive and entry is limited almost exclusively to the affluent, not to the most athletically gifted.

Do you feel worse about yourself now that you are informed of the facts?


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

MattMay said:


> Such a cool shot. Training and course marking with Nino, Kate's living the dream for sure. That ain't luck. That's the direct result of preparation meeting opportunity. For anyone to say any different is just...small.


Yeah, I attribute a lot of success to Thomas for sure. He's clearly an amazing coach: very knowledgeable and apparently quite patient as well. He now has three world champions and a gold medalist under his tutelage in recent years: Nino, Jenny, and Kate.

Way to go Thomas! Ignoring or minimizing the fact that men make Kate's success possible (Thomas, Brad Copeland) is just....small.

Kate looks like she's been burning the midnight oil. She looks very tired in this video. I don't know exactly when it was filmed, but it was probably filmed in the past couple of weeks.


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

PoshJosh said:


> This is not relevant to the thread. Please stop.


So the mods are allowing any and all insults of anyone who says anything favorable about racers other than Kate Courtney, and deleting any posts otherwise.

No norcal bias here!


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## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

This is not relevant to the thread. Please stop.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Is WesternMTB the same person as mysharona?

His anti-KC trolling is getting old.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

westernmtb said:


> So the mods are allowing any and all insults of anyone who says anything favorable about racers other than Kate Courtney, and deleting any posts otherwise.
> 
> No norcal bias here!


Seriously?

Do you have any evidence that any Mod has deleted ANY post that says anything favorable about other racers, specifically for that reason?

Here's a test: Pauline Ferrand-Prevot had a great race. I'm super pumped to see her, and Jenny Rissveds, back at the points end of races. I hope they give KC a run for her money for the next decade.


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## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Is WesternMTB the same person as mysharona?
> 
> His anti-KC trolling is getting old.


Was wondering the same thing. And with some of their blatantly racist posts other threads that got closed because of it, not sure how they're not banned yet.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

afalts said:


> Was wondering the same thing. And with some of their blatantly racist posts other threads that got closed because of it, not sure how they're not banned yet.


Looks like the ban hammer came down


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> Pauline Ferrand-Prevot had a great race. I'm super pumped to see her, and Jenny Rissveds, back at the points end of races. I hope they give KC a run for her money for the next decade.


Hear, hear! There's nothing more inspiring than comeback stories, especially when the athletes aren't just great racers, but good people too. Looking forward to the final few races of the season like never before.

Hoping Red Bull puts the Championships on their schedule...don't see it yet, but if memory serves this happened last year (or 2017?) too...last minute add.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Classy PVP Instagram post

__
http://instagr.am/p/B03q5-SJLqz/


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

And now let us get back to racing.

Lenzerhiede pretty well the exact same course as last year. It is a very interesting course;
3 minute climb, 30s descent, then 10 minutes of punchy climbs with rough low grade descending between them. The course has a section for the climbers and a section for the power riders.

From what I am hearing currently the course is extremely slippery. Catharine said it was pretty amusing watching world class rider after world class rider just flail away this morning in training. The course might get drier before race day, but the emphasis is on might.

Bikes I think just about everybody goes with an FS. In the search for grip the set-up on the bikes is likely to be quite a bit softer then normal. The tire pressure game is in an interesting one, you want to go really low for the roots, but there is a 2 minute pavement climb which absolutely sucks if your pressure is too low.

Pics: 
Men: Van der Poel is clearly on form right now (his last lap last weekend was breath taking). I think even on top for Nino would have problems matching him.

Women: I think the rider to beat this weekend is Jenny. Her only World Cup win came here and I think the course suits her smooth and efficient style.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

ewarnerusa said:


> Classy PVP Instagram post
> [


Agreed! I greatly enjoyed reading that.

The women's XCO field is so exciting to watch right now. So many talented and powerful riders!

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

westernmtb said:


> And yet, any man of average athletic ability training the same number of hours will be much faster.
> 
> Does anyone realistically believe the best athletes enter xc racing? Bicycle racing is very expensive and entry is limited almost exclusively to the affluent, not to the most athletically gifted.
> 
> Do you feel worse about yourself now that you are informed of the facts?


It sounds like you got "chicked" one too many times.

Next time a lady asks you for a pass, make sure you tell them if you had trained as many hours as them that you would be faster because you are a man." I'm sure she will get a kick out of that one.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

LMN said:


> And now let us get back to racing.
> 
> Lenzerhiede pretty well the exact same course as last year. It is a very interesting course;
> 3 minute climb, 30s descent, then 10 minutes of punchy climbs with rough low grade descending between them. The course has a section for the climbers and a section for the power riders.
> ...


It will be an interesting race on both fields.

Seems like MVDP will be the man to beat, but who knows we might get a surprise.

Rissveds I'm not too sure, she is definitely doing great, but she still seems a bit below the top contenders in power. What she has going for her though is she is racing her own race, which has payed off tremendously. Still, I don't think she can get the win in Lenzerheide.

My vote goes to Tauber, Neff second and Kate third.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

kevbikemad said:


> I wonder how much the top teams look into the rider's numbers before signing a rider?


Based on the information that I have I think these are the approximate CP20s it takes to contend for the win in a Men's and Women's XCO race.

Men: A bit more of guess on this one but I think it is about 6.2 watts/kg. I know 6.0 puts you in the top 15.

Women: Pretty confident on this one (or at least this was true a couple of years ago) but 5.5 watts/kg.

Keep in mind though those numbers are at absolute peak form and the top athletes only see them a couple of times a season.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

LMN said:


> Men: A bit more of guess on this one but I think it is about 6.2 watts/kg. I know 6.0 puts you in the top 15.


That gives Van Der Poel an FTP around 465.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Train Wreck said:


> That gives Van Der Poel an FTP around 465.


I was referring to 20 minute power, not threshold. His FTP is probably around 430.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

That also sounds too high for the women. That would put Annika at almost 350 FTP.

That figure could be correct for smaller riders. But that’s not true for her. 

Plus watt per KG would have to vary +/- .5 given power profile. People get hung up on that number to much in MTB. 

Edit: just saw your comment about Threshold power. That’s still not correct. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

LMN said:


> I was referring to 20 minute power, not threshold. His FTP is probably around 430.


Who references that other than to pad their ego? Especially if people are using other testing methodologies rich as Ramp Tests

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> That also sounds too high for the women. That would put Annika at almost 350 FTP.
> 
> That figure could be correct for smaller riders. But that's not true for her.
> 
> Plus watt per KG would have to vary +/- .5 given power profile. People get hung up on that number to much in MTB.


My own data says that is pretty close. Catharine's all time best 20 minute power was 276 and she was 49kg at the time, she was world champion that year and finished on the podium at every single World Cup she started. Now her CP20 is around 265 and she is 52kgs and can no longer climb with the top riders. I have a couple of other data points from other riders that are similar.

And yeah Annika's numbers are that high.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

LMN said:


> My own data says that is pretty close. Catharine's all time best 20 minute power was 276 and she was 49kg at the time, she was world champion that year and finished on the podium at every single World Cup she started. Now her CP20 is around 265 and she is 52kgs and can no longer climb with the top riders. I have a couple of other data points from other riders that are similar.
> 
> And yeah Annika's numbers are that high.


That's a high number indeed, 276W CP20 at 49kgs...ouch. I wonder what Belamoina best CP20 is. Annika's 350W cp20 certainly possible from what I have seen from her and the power she has shown in her rides. She is the Kulhavy's women side.

The jump from a top athlete to someone who trains very hard seems like a long bridge in terms of performance, what would you say is the key factor in crossing it? Training time? Talent?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

LMN said:


> And yeah Annika's numbers are that high.


Yeah, but what's Catherine's 15 or 30 second power look like?

The data I have seen shared by her and Thomas is no where near that at all. It was 10% lower than that. Perhaps I am mistaken, but it was shared when talking about her normalized power for the Cape Epic.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

Annika's ride from TT Nationals last year: https://www.strava.com/activities/1669533050/power-curve

For those that can't see that, her 20 min was 342W, which puts her at 5.41W/Kg for the weight she's entered into her account.

Glean from that what you will, but I'd be willing to bet that's not her highest 20 min by at least 5%, maybe even up to 7-8% more at peak form?

5% more would put her dead on Catharine's w/kg from when she was world champ.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> Yeah, but what's Catherine's 15 or 30 second power look like?


Terrible. Like comically bad. Her single biggest weakness as a cyclist.

A couple of years ago she really made improving those short term power numbers a big focus. Lots of specific training, intervals sets, gym work ect.. Those numbers got better but everything else suffered. It has been a real challenge to get ride of that weight she gained on the squat rack.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TDLover said:


> The jump from a top athlete to someone who trains very hard seems like a long bridge in terms of performance, what would you say is the key factor in crossing it? Training time? Talent?


Isn't that the question.

Obviously talent is factor. But if you don't have sufficient talent then you usually aren't being considered.

This is a hard question to answer, I have erased about a 1/2 dozen paragraphs already.

I think people under-estimate how hard you have to train and how smart you have to train. It is easy to say just train 900hrs and you are good go. But actually do 900hrs and to gradually build your capacity to effectively do 900hrs that is a whole different cup of tea.

Honestly though (and I am rather bias on this) I think good coaching is huge. In North American it people like Dan Proulx and Jim Miller who have worked behind the scenes to put multiple athlete's on world cup podiums.


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

kevbikemad said:


> I wonder how much the top teams look into the rider's numbers before signing a rider?


I can answer this one for a WT Team on the road side. They look at only one number: the number in front of the name on result sheets.
This holds true for almost every team in professional bike racing.
At least in Germany it's different on the national level(to qualify for funding etc.). In mountainbiking athletes have to do a test consisting of five different abilities. Testing protocol is: 1. Ramp test, 2. motoric skills, 3. anaerobic test, 4. isometric power, 5. max power test at a given cadence ranging from 60-160 (depending on discipline)


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

LMN said:


> Isn't that the question.
> 
> Obviously talent is factor. But if you don't have sufficient talent then you usually aren't being considered.
> 
> ...


I agree with it but would add that a key factor in success is the mental side of things. I am friends with a former U23 WC overall winner and see how he/she is struggling to get results in the elite WC. His numbers are totally fine and I don't think there is a big difference beween him/her and the usual podium contenders. I am a big believer in the idea that coaching is as much about caring about the athlete as it is about physical training. Most professionals (and even amateurs) know how to train. They need a friend (or sometimes an enemy) who cares about them. I guess that is what the term 'coaching' means after all.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

On a related topic (World Champs), unless I'm missing it on the Red Bull website (and it's possible because it still has some of the worst navigation of any website on the internet), I don't see MSA World Champs coverage on the Red Bull website, so maybe we'll be geoblocked in Canada. I recall they've done this before where the agreement happens at the last minute and then Red Bull streams it. I see on the Velirium website that TVA Sports is their official broadcaster partner so maybe it will be covered on Quebec TV.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

the last few years the worlds are alway smissing until about 5 minutes before it's on (well not quite 5min, but still...)


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

LMN said:


> Terrible. Like comically bad. Her single biggest weakness as a cyclist.
> 
> A couple of years ago she really made improving those short term power numbers a big focus. Lots of specific training, intervals sets, gym work ect.. Those numbers got better but everything else suffered. It has been a real challenge to get ride of that weight she gained on the squat rack.


I had a feeling with that weight and such a high FTP, especially after reading and listening to fellow Texan Dr. Stephen Seiler.

I'm very curious as what to expect out of my wife's fitness. Her current CP20 is 255.

We've implemented a little sprint training after she lost one finish in a sprint. Really, its more about timing the sprint an attack than anything and trying to out sprint a sprinter (me) with tactics.



LMN said:


> Isn't that the question.
> 
> I think people under-estimate how hard you have to train and how smart you have to train. It is easy to say just train 900hrs and you are good go. But actually do 900hrs and to gradually build your capacity to effectively do 900hrs that is a whole different cup of tea.


I have a few friends that think they can just start riding 20+ hours per week and get way faster. Some of them have actually slowed down on the MTB in this process.



afalts said:


> Annika's ride from TT Nationals last year: https://www.strava.com/activities/1669533050/power-curve
> 
> For those that can't see that, her 20 min was 342W, which puts her at 5.41W/Kg for the weight she's entered into her account.


Well that's 5.4 for 20 min based upon her strava weight, which is amazing! She was a complete beast in 2018, hopefully she has a better run of luck (injuries) in the next year.

She could Diesel AND out sprint competition at the end.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Reminder: 16 mins til Short Track time on Redbull


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Jolanda had the biggest stoked smile I’d ever seen on someone waiting for the green light... gonna be a good one!


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Greatest ride of them all; Rissveds
Most embarrassing; Brandau


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

zgxtreme said:


> Most embarrassing; Brandau


Yeah, that hurt. Awesome interview by her.

Jolanda's interview after the race was the first time I ever heard frustration from her. Great to see that!

I really appreciate the interview where you can see the emotion from athletes. Not to pick on the Red Bull athletes but the interview training they get make their interviews so bland.


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## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

ZOMG kAtE cOuRtNeY iS wAsHeD uP!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

PoshJosh said:


> ZOMG kAtE cOuRtNeY iS wAsHeD uP!


Let's stop this.

This thread is a great thread when it is positive. No need to cut into riders, even if it is in jest.


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## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

I am mostly poking fun at our now banned friend in this thread. I am a KC fan myself.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

LMN said:


> Yeah, that hurt. Awesome interview by her.
> 
> Jolanda's interview after the race was the first time I ever heard frustration from her. Great to see that!
> 
> I really appreciate the interview where you can see the emotion from athletes. Not to pick on the Red Bull athletes but the interview training they get make their interviews so bland.


Glad my assessment wasn't taken too negatively as it was an embarrassing moment BUT, these races are so chaotic requiring so much focus, I'm shocked it hasn't happened more often.

Agree on the RedBull coaching. Not to jump to a KC issue; but her interviews have seem so practiced this year (could be RedBull, could be Scott, or both) it's stolen from some of the personality and emotion I think you'd see and what you referred to.

As I typed this... Nino bringing the fight to this one.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The men's short track was awesome. So many attacks, so fast. I think that was one of the best short track circuits.

I know there is mixed feeling about short track but personally I really enjoy it. Nice little teaser for the main event on the weekend.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

LMN said:


> I know there is mixed feeling about short track but personally I really enjoy it. Nice little teaser for the main event on the weekend.


Me too! The more coverage, the better.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Already waiting for next year and hopefully more of the ladies fit, Might be crazy short tracks with PFP, Neff, Langvad, Brandau, Rissveds, Courtney, Keller and so on. 

More on the topic around Courtney would be to be careful about how Scott are working with her, I think I pointed it out when announced Kate was going to Scott. 


For the men's race: Good racing but I think the SS is a playground for MvdP. Only Sam Gaze in full form can match him.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Also, I think the SS format will develop further and needs to. Tracks like today are great fun to watch, even longer climbs would be good or some technical session with several lines (like some of the Eliminators races had).

But most important, will we see a change of physics of MTB riders to have more short power? Climbers looks to have a tough time with starting further back


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Jolanda is fantastic, she is great for the sport and seems to be involved in these epic races. She made that VDS race awesome, again.
I guess she was somewhat frustrated after ST because she wants to win at home. She and Nino will be seriously motivated on Sunday.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

ST racing needs Gaze. He is the only one who has beaten VDP in this format.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

madfella said:


> ST racing needs Gaze. He is the only one who has beaten VDP in this format.


Didn't Avancini win one last year against MVDP as well?

Gaze is impressive. It'd be great to see him up there soon.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

I’m curious about Gaze as well, since he’s trying his hand on the road (trainee for Quickstep)...any speculation on what his race schedule might look like?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Rob Warner mentioned that Red Bull would be providing coverage of the World Champs during the DH commentary this morning.



mik_git said:


> the last few years the worlds are alway smissing until about 5 minutes before it's on (well not quite 5min, but still...)


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Renzo7 said:


> Didn't Avancini win one last year against MVDP as well?
> 
> Gaze is impressive. It'd be great to see him up there soon.


Sam went from 117th or so to about 47th at Val di Sole, fading at the end.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MattMay said:


> I'm curious about Gaze as well, since he's trying his hand on the road (trainee for Quickstep)...any speculation on what his race schedule might look like?


Still MTB'ing this season through the Olympics.
NZ will probably only get 1 spot though which will probably go to Anton on current form.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

Rissveds is interesting to watch. Other than the end of that short track, she just seems to be out doing her own ride, and getting faster and faster.


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## insidertrading (Mar 12, 2018)

NordieBoy said:


> Still MTB'ing this season through the Olympics.
> NZ will probably only get 1 spot though which will probably go to Anton on current form.


NZ is about 700 points back from qualifying 2 men - and that would be ideal. Still possible, especially since all Sam's points are added rather than replacement due to around 12 months off and on injury. He will be Mtb racing through to Olympics, including WCs, Oceanias and NZ champs - switching over to road after that as per mvdp. Tokyo test event later this year will better show the type of rider that suits the course - Olympic courses normally seem to suit bigger power riders but who knows who is on form / uninjured by July next year - to early to call it yet.


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## insidertrading (Mar 12, 2018)

madfella said:


> ST racing needs Gaze. He is the only one who has beaten VDP in this format.


Gaze is still around 380 points off 40 position for an ST start - but with the XCO race in Lenzerheide, champs and maybe Basel before snowshoe who knows - still theoretically possible. 2019 seems to be the year of the comeback.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

insidertrading said:


> NZ is about 700 points back from qualifying 2 men - and that would be ideal. Still possible, especially since all Sam's points are added rather than replacement due to around 12 months off and on injury. He will be Mtb racing through to Olympics, including WCs, Oceanias and NZ champs - switching over to road after that as per mvdp. Tokyo test event later this year will better show the type of rider that suits the course - Olympic courses normally seem to suit bigger power riders but who knows who is on form / uninjured by July next year - to early to call it yet.


Olympic points calculated different than UCI ranking. Olympic is the total UCI points acquired during the qualification period, whereas UCI ranking is total points during the last 365 days.

For example: 
Someone like Emily Batty has currently has 967 UCI points, 1428 Olympic qualification points.
Where as Catharine Pendrel who was injured last year has 1148 UCI points and 1148 UCI points.

For New Zealand to get 2 spots both Sam and Atton have to be riding top 5 at the rest of WCs during the qualification period with probably a win or 2. And they would have to do some serious point hunting.

Sort of crazy because last spring New Zealand was looking crazy strong as a nation. Just takes an injury or period of bad form to through things off.

I know for the Canadian women in all likelihood either Catharine or Emily is not going to make the team next year. Haley Smith with her 3rd at Nova Mesto almost has a spot locked in and Canada is a long way behind the US and Switzerland to get 3 spots.

An interesting selection will be the US women's team. There are five girls who could go, Kate, Erin, Chloe, Leah, Haley Batten. With the two race shoot out selection policy* any* of the five could be staying at home.


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

Anyone catch Rob W. mentioning pics on social media of Avicini puking or something after a race recently? Wonder what pics he was referring to...


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

LMN said:


> Olympic points calculated different than UCI ranking. Olympic is the total UCI points acquired during the qualification period, whereas UCI ranking is total points during the last 365 days.
> 
> For example:
> Someone like Emily Batty has currently has 967 UCI points, 1428 Olympic qualification points.
> ...


Olympic selection criteria sure seems odd to me in some cases, of course my understanding of it is minimal. For USA, given their criteria for selection:

1.Victory at the 2020 UCI World Cup opener in Nove Mesto (May 24, 2020)
2.Victory at the 2019 UCI world championships in Mont-Sainte-Anne (September 10, 2019)
3. 2nd-8th place at Nove Mesto (one rider per gender)
4. 2nd-8th place at Mont-Sainte-Anne (one rider per gender)
5. Top-10 overall in the final 2019 World Cup rankings

I think Kate sacrificed current WC and last one for peaking at Worlds in Canada. I think that's her major goal this year. However, that's probably a major goal for everyone unless they can lock their Olympic spot in an easier way. At least it makes sense to do it.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

The footage on bike of the short track they are showing as a recap for the womens was pretty cool (well they were of crashes of PFP and KC, so not good for them, but good to see the actual footage angles)


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

So stoked to have waken up to watch that women's race; best of the year with such a diverse and capable field!

Great performance by Catherine LMN


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

That was another great race.
The mens is alwyas good to watch, but always the womens is totally fantastic to watch, this year even more so.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

zgxtreme said:


> So stoked to have waken up to watch that women's race; best of the year with such a diverse and capable field!
> 
> Great performance by Catherine LMN


What a race!!

Seriously pumped to see Catharine back up there. She still has a bit more work to do to get top form, but she is close.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

LMN said:


> What a race!!
> 
> Seriously pumped to see Catharine back up there. She still has a bit more work to do to get top form, but she is close.


^yeah that crash probably didn't help, great result for her and she is clearly imporving with every race.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Oh and finally my fantasy league come up with the goods, Rissvids, pendral and mconnel, haha, sweet.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mik_git said:


> ^yeah that crash probably didn't help, great result for her and she is clearly imporving with every race.


I think she crashed out of the lead group three times on that descent over the years.

I could see that she was right on the limit entering it and that is when mistakes happen.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Man does Van Der Poel look good on mountain bike now. He isn't giving up anything, any where.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

LMN said:


> Man does Van Der Poel look good on mountain bike now. He isn't giving up anything, any where.


This is one of the more solid and fluid races I've seen of his in the dirt. He's found the flow and is just staying steady.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

If you are a road racer hoping to win worlds and you are watching this race you are sweating.


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

He's got to be the out and our favorite for Road world's. Basically you need to drop him before the finale or he'll just ride everyone off his wheel, if there's even the hint of an incline in the last 20km he's going to go. If it comes down to a reduced sprint I don't think even Sagan or Alaphilippe could beat him at the end of a long hard race based on current form. He just seems to always have that 2-3min anaerobic effort, no matter how much energy he has expened, that nobody on earth can follow.


What an incredible race though. Nino and MVDP so much better it isn't even close. Shame MVDP won't be at Snowshoe but if he wins road World Champs he will surely go down as one of the greats at the ripe old age of 24.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

chilla13 said:


> Most professionals (and even amateurs) know how to train.


Do they?

I do think you should get the best coach possible, who has a proven track record. A bad year of coaching can really be a bad move.

It is mental game as well, but the wrong training will not produce great results and can even work against you.


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## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

I didn't count, but did it look like to anyone else there were fewer droppers on bikes?

I'm still not convinced it's any faster to have one in races like the WC courses. But that new BMC dropper that doesn't need you to sit down to go down looks like it could be a nice improvement. 

I noticed on the jumps after the feed zone there were a lot of people dropping their posts, but then just rolling/squashing the jumps, and those jumps don't really require a dropper in the first place. A lot of dropper usage just looks very awkward to me, like it's still something new to many riders, and they maintain a body position like their seat is still up.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

LMN said:


> An interesting selection will be the US women's team. There are five girls who could go, Kate, Erin, Chloe, Leah, Haley Batten. With the two race shoot out selection policy* any* of the five could be staying at home.


I'd like to preface this by saying the Olympics are ridiculous, tired old sports (what's left after the 9 jillion swim and gymnastics events) run by the single most corrupt organisation on the planet, all under the guise of faux nationalism, what's not to like. That being said, anybody but Leah Davison, she literally mails it in until an Olympic year, peaking for one month every 4 years, it's bullshit. Kate is a no brainer but Chloe SO deserves to go this year and I'm betting she gets screwed.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The MSA World Champs course is mostly the same as 2018 World Cup, 100m shorter, a different start loop, they're using the trails out in the east end again. If it's wet those are always wild.

2018








2019


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Man, what on earth is wrong with the Specialised team this year? Langvad, Hatherley, Gaze etc. 

Betya Mike Sinyard is not a happy man. I guess Jenny kinda flew the flag.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

What a weekend of racing. Holy cow!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

madfella said:


> Man, what on earth is wrong with the Specialised team this year? Langvad, Hatherley, Gaze etc.
> 
> Betya Mike Sinyard is not a happy man. I guess Jenny kinda flew the flag.


Well, Gaze is coming back from injury...


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## insidertrading (Mar 12, 2018)

NordieBoy said:


> Well, Gaze is coming back from injury...


 Gaze came down sick before race, bloody bad luck, especially when he was on the way back up.

Is it just me thinking it or does it seem this year a heap of riders are having a rough few months completely falling off the pace, compared to their previous form, and having to take a break off the bike to recover and build back up again.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

I think a lot of riders have been going all in for the Olympics. Training to hard before and then entering the season a on the edge, when they haven't seen results they have been pushing themselves over the limit to get it resulting in problems. 

Some of them might have been taking the season to build for next year and that also resulting in problems. The bloody way we are doing Olympics is terrible.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Specialized better be paying Jenny some good money!!


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

No not money but provide her enough room to enjoy the sport and the team.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G973F met Tapatalk


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

madfella said:


> Man, what on earth is wrong with the Specialised team this year? Langvad, Hatherley, Gaze etc.
> 
> Betya Mike Sinyard is not a happy man. I guess Jenny kinda flew the flag.





NordieBoy said:


> Well, Gaze is coming back from injury...





insidertrading said:


> Gaze came down sick before race, bloody bad luck, especially when he was on the way back up.


Gaze is just a walking excuse book... It just seems that if its not going perfectly he gives up :-/

Ive been saying it since last season that the Specialized team is a mess... I really believe there is some "unrest" there.

Even Hatherly has deteriorated as the season has gone on.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Has anybody noticed ( 10 things I like or don't like...depending on your point of view):
Men
1. MvDP weaknesses (steep climbs, super technical stuff) are no more...
2. We are seeing cracks on Nino's grip of dominance...but only against one guy or maybe two...he kills everybody else...
3. Avancini paid for the efforts in Val di Sole
4. M. Fluckiger is a real threat for World Championships
5. Every race, different canadian getting closer...
6. Fumic is drinking from the Fountain of Youth (love that guy)
7. Whole Cannondale team near the top places...
8. Whole Specialized team out of whack...
9. Is Absalon coaching Sarrou?
10. Last year surprises, didn't this year...

Women
1. Jenny
2. Rissveds
3. Jenny Rissveds
2. Neff is the most consistent racer there is @ the moment...
3. Kate has won 3 WC races...Frischknecht has to be some kind of a magician getting the best out racers...
5. Pendrel is drinking from the same water Fumic is drinking...proud to be on the same forum as LMN
6. Bunch of canadians representing...
7. Last year surprises, didn't...
8. Bad luck for Annika this year (love how she races)
9. CST, Ghost and whole lotta smaller teams killing it...
10. Best...racing...ever...'nuff said!!!


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

carlostruco said:


> 9. Is Absalon coaching Sarrou?


Yup, Sarrou is on the Absolute Absalon team run by Absalon.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

dwperry said:


> Yup, Sarrou is on the Absolute Absalon team run by Absalon.


That I know, but being his actual coach is another thing. I've read about having coaches not related to the team management.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Tips for Red Bull:
- Get a post race interviewer who can ask questions based on the interviewee's previously provided answers. 
- Results/Start board, esp Short Track, should have 8 places per screen to correspond to starting row grid. Not 10.
- Rolling places on bottom of screen whilst race in progress up to place 50 and maybe beyond. 

But heck, Gotta love your work RB. Thanks.


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

Anyone planning on spectating at the Snowshoe World Cup?

I posted in the regional forum looking for advice. https://forums.mtbr.com/virginia-wv...ator-trip-9-7-9-8-a-1111645.html#post14255317


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm heading to snowshoe from Illinois. Not going to miss another chance to see a world cup in person. The last one I went to was in the mid 90's up in Traverse City, MI. I still have some cool posters and stuff from those early world cup years.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Is snowshoe gonna be in next year as well? Might go to that one.


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## MudderNutter (Oct 23, 2014)

I’m heading to Snowshoe. Pretty pumped about it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TurboKoo (Mar 27, 2010)

Any good pictures of MVP's bike that would show power meter he is using? After the race he put on Instagram numbers from race (NP418w if I remember correctly) but in any picture I cannot see PM he is using


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## Rist (Oct 15, 2009)

TurboKoo said:


> Any good pictures of MVP's bike that would show power meter he is using? After the race he put on Instagram numbers from race (NP418w if I remember correctly) but in any picture I cannot see PM he is using


I think he uses Stages powermeter - bike photo from Lenzerheide (by Pinkbike) - https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p6pb17592757/p6pb17592757.jpg (look at the inside of the left crank arm) and Stages XTR (left) crank arm - https://store.stagescycling.com/site/images-product/M9000-L.01.jpg


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## TurboKoo (Mar 27, 2010)

But that’s not compatible with FC-M9100 cranks due to different attaching method on new cranks. Maybe stages will release soon?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

TurboKoo said:


> Any good pictures of MVP's bike that would show power meter he is using? After the race he put on Instagram numbers from race (NP418w if I remember correctly) but in any picture I cannot see PM he is using


Looks like Stages...


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## Udyr (Jul 29, 2013)

Well if it is a Stages, we know that he was either doing 398w NP or 438w NP, but he definitely wasn't doing 418w NP

(sorry couldn't resist making a Stages joke)


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Udyr said:


> Well if it is a Stages, we know that he was either doing 398w NP or 438w NP, but he definitely wasn't doing 418w NP
> 
> (sorry couldn't resist making a Stages joke)


Haha, I was gonna say something among those lines too, but on second thought restrained myself.

My least favorite power meter, but does the job.


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## TurboKoo (Mar 27, 2010)

I have 2 StagesPower and other is in my mountainbike. It's proper random number generator regarding max power. Depending on the jumping it can be anything up to 33000W. Puts his instagram competition of his max power in a new light


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## hesitationpoint (Aug 11, 2017)

Looking at pictures of Van der poel's bike at Lezenheider, it looks like he is running the consumer version of the Aspen tires rather than the 170s. I thought that was interesting.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

RedBull now showing Mont-Saint-Anne World Championships.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

hesitationpoint said:


> Looking at pictures of Van der poel's bike at Lezenheider, it looks like he is running the consumer version of the Aspen tires rather than the 170s. I thought that was interesting.


Maybe the Scott team got all of the Maxxis 170s and wouldn't share with MvdP. Poor lad had to make do with the mediocre 120 TPI Aspens. Nino certainly seems to get all the latest, greatest equipment before the rest of the pros. He must have some exclusive deal with Maxxis and SRAM to get all the best stuff.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

hesitationpoint said:


> Looking at pictures of Van der poel's bike at Lezenheider, it looks like he is running the consumer version of the Aspen tires rather than the 170s. I thought that was interesting.


People are picking and choosing the courses they are running the 170s on. They are lighter but they are also a bit more fragile.

After flatting a 170TPI tire last year, Catharine too chose to run regular tires at Lezenheider.

Definitely not a case of MVDP not having them. I have a box of about a dozen of them in my basement.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

LMN said:


> People are picking and choosing the courses they are running the 170s on. They are lighter but they are also a bit more fragile.
> 
> After flatting a 170TPI tire last year, Catharine too chose to run regular tires at Lezenheider.
> 
> Definitely not a case of MVDP not having them. I have a box of about a dozen of them in my basement.


Do you you accept vennmo or paypal?


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

^LOL, beat me to it!


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

I wonder if nino will struggle getting fully motivated for the world's. He's very professional so probably not, but could be a good chance for someone else to snag it. Fluky seems like the most likely choice.

Women's field a lot more open. Not very adventurous but I'm going for Neff, with 2 Canadians in the top 5.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm not qualified to comment other than; I've never been a sports watcher, but I've really been enjoying the WC coverage, especially the women's races, probably because of all the lead changes, and how the winner is so uncertain until the end. It's simply great racing, everything you want.
If MVDP weren't there, the other top 2 would still be amazing, putting a gap on the rest of the field, but then MVDP just pulls away at the end, - it's a little bit comforting that he looks spent at the finish. 
We don't have cable, and I'm happy that most everything I want is available as replay on my schedule (road tours, and WC mtb).


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Worlds?

Mens:
Top favorites: Nino and Flueckiger. I am going to give Flueckiger the edge here, I think he is climbing a bit better than Nino. Him only down fall is starts and MSA can punish you if you have a poor start.

Dark Horses: Avenci, Kerchbaumer. Unlikely though, I think one or both of the top favourites would have to have a mechanical for either of these two to win.

I do not see anyone outside of those four winning.

Women's: As always way more open.

Top favorites: Jolanda, Rissveds and Pauline. Those three riders have the complete package. They can climb, they can start, they can descend and as of the last world cups they have the best form. Proven track record at big events too. 

Second tier: Kate, Catharine, Anne Terpstra. Kate had the form earlier in the year and might get it again. Proven winner. Catharine's form is on the rise and she is the queen of MSA. Since 2008 she has been in the top five 9 of 11 times (4 wins, 3 silvers, a bronze, and a 4th). The only years she wasn't in the top 5 was when she was returning from injury. With a win and 2nd this year I have to mention Anne, however she might be a bit of an altitude specialist.

Third tier: A whole bunch of girls. And as Kate showed last year someone from the third tier can win.


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

curtlo-dork said:


> I'm heading to snowshoe from Illinois. Not going to miss another chance to see a world cup in person. The last one I went to was in the mid 90's up in Traverse City, MI. I still have some cool posters and stuff from those early world cup years.


I'm heading there from IL as well and could use some tips. Any way to ride the course on Saturday? Where best to watch. Was the course announced yet? Both sides of the mountain?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I can find very little info about this race. At least that's the way it was up to a few weeks ago. Back in the 90's, they had UCI World Cups in Michigan, and I went to several, and raced in the regular old Sport class. 

I've been assuming that I can't actually race at the current day world cups? I see no mention of any other races.

I'll have to do some more digging, as it's only a few weeks away now. I'm not going to race anyway, just want to watch from the sidelines and walk the pits like the old days of NORBA. I'll be heading over thursday, driving to the venue for the short track, doing something with the family saturday, and spending all day there Sunday. Should be fun.


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

TwincamRob said:


> Anyone planning on spectating at the Snowshoe World Cup?
> 
> I posted in the regional forum looking for advice. https://forums.mtbr.com/virginia-wv...ator-trip-9-7-9-8-a-1111645.html#post14255317


Family and I are driving from Pa. Won't get there until Saturday but we plan to spectate the main event Sunday. Kids are really pumped to see and hopefully meet some of the athletes they have been watching all season. Of course, Nino and Jolanda are on the top of the list. My bro is meeting us there from NC, so it will be awesome!


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I again tonight tried to get some detailed information, and aside from the Showshoe resort page, that has times, there isn't much else posted. 

One thing I stumbled upon, is the $50 per adult person fee just to get in the event. So for me and my two kids, $140 just to walk in! Holy cow. That seems a bit much. Not racing, just walking around? 

There's a $10 discount if you buy the tix before the 31st, which I'll do. But darn, it keeps getting more and more expensive, this little "we'll just drive over for the weekend" family trip. I should have expected as much. I know better. Just a heads up.


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## mojorules (Dec 23, 2005)

https://www.snowshoemtn.com/discover-snowshoe/uci-world-cup-participant-information

bike park is closed until 9/12,but for your $40 you get to ride the ski lift


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## jet9rdopilot (Nov 10, 2012)

Having attended numerous World Cups and World Champs, if they can control the access they will charge an admission fee. That Andorra you could drive up the road and walk in or pay to ride the Gondola up. Cairns, you had to obtain a admission pass. Going to Mtn Ste Anne, first year they did, but in past they have not.

Having raced at Snowshoe in the past. It is very remote. Limited dining, gas, groceries. Four or Five logging options. Elk River, @ base of Mtn, two hotels @ top of Mtn. There are numerous condos and apartments, also. 

It is a mountain top resort, with a water park attached to one hotel. One access road, up the mountain where they will probably charge the admission fee. No parking on this road, except at the finish of the downhill.

When I raced there, the downhill was run on one side of the Mtn and the cross country on the other. Do not know what they are going to use.

Hope they dish up a good technical cross country course and downhill. Not like the lame Windham courses.

Go Kate, Rose, Lea, Chloe.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

curtlo-dork said:


> I again tonight tried to get some detailed information, and aside from the Showshoe resort page, that has times, there isn't much else posted.
> 
> One thing I stumbled upon, is the $50 per adult person fee just to get in the event. So for me and my two kids, $140 just to walk in! Holy cow. That seems a bit much. Not racing, just walking around?
> 
> There's a $10 discount if you buy the tix before the 31st, which I'll do. But darn, it keeps getting more and more expensive, this little "we'll just drive over for the weekend" family trip. I should have expected as much. I know better. Just a heads up.


Man, just do it. It should be splendid. But I know what you mean. Sounds like we'll be another small American crowd. Short sighted from the organisers.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Looks like Stages...
> View attachment 1271831


what is the red zip tie around the top tube for?
the red zip tie is also on the other podium bikes show on the Pink Bike photos


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## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

Something to do with the UCI motor check I think.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Don't they zip it on at the end of the XCC to make sure they use the same bike for the XCO? They quickly grab the bike at the end, put it on and had it back?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

i was wondering the same thing...


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

I think it serves to identify the bike used in the race to make sure that that's the one that gets inspected. 

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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

curtlo-dork said:


> I again tonight tried to get some detailed information, and aside from the Showshoe resort page, that has times, there isn't much else posted.
> 
> One thing I stumbled upon, is the $50 per adult person fee just to get in the event. So for me and my two kids, $140 just to walk in! Holy cow. That seems a bit much. Not racing, just walking around?
> 
> There's a $10 discount if you buy the tix before the 31st, which I'll do. But darn, it keeps getting more and more expensive, this little "we'll just drive over for the weekend" family trip. I should have expected as much. I know better. Just a heads up.


I'm starting to question if I should go or not. Here are the drawbacks that I see so far: 
- 11h drive from Chicago area 
- I will not get there until late evening on Saturday which will probably not allow me to ride the course as it will be dark and the course will be closed starting early Sunday morning 
- Any reasonably priced hotel that I could find was almost 50miles away so I'm up for a drive on Sunday morning again 
- Will have to take Monday off of work to drive back 
- $40 entry fee just to watch? 
- remoteness of the place with hardly any cell reception (supposedly AT&T is OK once you're on top).

I know that it's UCI World Cup and it gets me excited but it looks like a ton of a hassle to stand there in a potential rainy cold weather and watch few hours of people riding by. 
Maybe I'm getting old but couch and RedbullTV sound a hell of a lot more appealing right now.


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

rallymaniac said:


> .


Pretty much same conclusion I've come to.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Me too. But I'm going regardless. Having a full hour drive from hotel to race is kind of idiotic if I'm being honest. Putting a world cup level race in such a remote location makes little sense. The last one I attended was in Traverse City, MI. The race site was about 20-30 minutes from a huge city, with tons of hotels of all price points, state campgrounds, everything you needed. About 6 months ago when I was looking to make a hotel reservation for me and my family, there was no way I could get anything at the resort, or nearby. There just wasn't anything really. Nothing under $300 a night anyway. So I too had to take a standard Hampton Inn at the nearest town, which is an hour away. My plan was to leave thursday, go to the friday short track, hang out at the hotel saturday, then go back sunday, then monday morning, head to the east coast just for a few days of exploring. But now I'm leaning towards just skipping the short track, drive up friday, and only go to the race Sunday once. 

The entry fee is still blowing my mind a bit...over $100 to just walk in the place. I'm no moron, I understand how the world works. It costs money to put on an event, etc. But too bad it wasn't nearer a major metropolitan center.

But I have the reservations, and I'm going anyway I guess. Might not get another chance to see a world cup in person. Last year I almost loaded up the gang and drove to Mt. St. Anne just for fun. But 16+ hours and no passports put that to a quick death.

I'll be very curious to see how many spectators and product booths in the expo area there are. The only bright side is that with the world champs being the previous weekend, most if not all of the teams and whatnot should be there for the finals as well.

Fingers crossed...because this is turning out to be one expensive weekend!


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

rallymaniac said:


> I'm starting to question if I should go or not. Here are the drawbacks that I see so far:
> - 11h drive from Chicago area
> - I will not get there until late evening on Saturday which will probably not allow me to ride the course as it will be dark and the course will be closed starting early Sunday morning
> - Any reasonably priced hotel that I could find was almost 50miles away so I'm up for a drive on Sunday morning again
> ...


It's a World Cup Race. They're closing all the trails on the upper part of the mountain Sept 3-12. Might be able to get in a ride on the trails down by Silver Creek. Also, Slatyfork is about a half hour away.

I'm also taking Monday off to drive home. Figuring this might be a once in a lifetime chance to watch a UCI in the southeast US, and being that it's the final World Cup makes it pretty special.

I took off Thursday-Monday, and I'm hoping it's worth it... BTW, the $40 gets you Fri-Sun access and the lift ride (for DH practice/race spectating).


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I just saw Sam Gaze shut down his MTB racing for the season. He hopes to refresh and recharge for next year.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

^ you beat me to it.


__
http://instagr.am/p/B1gzHOdh7jT/


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

I don't know much about east coast and east coast riding, but it really looks like they found the most remote place in the east and decided to host a World Cup race there. Seems really stupid in my mind.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

JoePAz said:


> I don't know much about east coast and east coast riding, but it really looks like they found the most remote place in the east and decided to host a World Cup race there. Seems really stupid in my mind.


Who is this "they" you are talking about?
And I'm gonna bet you've never been to a World Cup...or know anything about putting on a race.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

the mayor said:


> Who is this "they" you are talking about?
> And I'm gonna bet you've never been to a World Cup...or know anything about putting on a race.


While I understand where you are coming from I also find JoePaz's point quite valid. A world class event requires at least good logistics (accommodation, international airport, amenities, services, etc) Snowshoe miss some of those. While it can still be a successful event, no doubt those factors will be detrimental to the overall experience. It's a strange choice at the least.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

TDLover said:


> While I understand where you are coming from I also find JoePaz's point quite valid. A world class event requires at least good logistics (accommodation, international airport, amenities, services, etc) Snowshoe miss some of those. While it can still be a successful event, no doubt those factors will be detrimental to the overall experience. It's a strange choice at the least.


Nothing strange about it.
The promoters at Snowshoe are the only folks in the US to come up with the money and put in a bid.


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

I know it's been talked about Solider Hollow applying for a World Cup bid in Utah. That venue makes a little more sense logistics wise (it was a winter Olympic venue after all). It'll be interesting to see where that goes.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

the mayor said:


> Nothing strange about it.
> The promoters at Snowshoe are the only folks in the US to come up with the money and put in a bid.


Stupid is as stupid does. The risk with an event like this is two fold. 1) some racers not showing up impacting the "show" 2) Spectators not showing up. If the event does not attract enough of both it will be a failure. MvDP is already not going to be there, but I don't believe the exact location was the driving force behind that.


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## emjayel (Apr 21, 2007)

*Does Courtney abstain?*

Does she not race this weekend in favor of being as ready as possible for Snowshoe? Can she sweep both events and take it all home? I'm still not sure who I'm rooting for...Jolanda or Kate...I like Jolanda's style, but Kate is kinda local to me and so inspiring.


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

emjayel said:


> Does she not race this weekend in favor of being as ready as possible for Snowshoe? Can she sweep both events and take it all home? I'm still not sure who I'm rooting for...Jolanda or Kate...I like Jolanda's style, but Kate is kinda local to me and so inspiring.


I still can't figure out if World Champ or World Cup Overall is the more prestigious title but I predict there's a 0% chance that Kate skips MSA if she's healthy. It will be very interesting to see if she has dialed back her training enough to prevent the blowups in Val de Sole and Lenzerheide from repeating in North America, or if her early season dominance was proof of peaking too early. Regardless, there are so many good storylines going on in women's XC heading into the North American events.


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

Rainbow jersey trumps all others. 
There is no way Overall is more important the Worlds. Even if the overall shows more as a "big picture"


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

^agree, dro me World champ is top...but I also think that World cup winner is above olympic, but I 'm probably in the minority on that.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Olympics>Worlds>World Cup , i'm pretty sure 99% riders think the same way


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> Olympics>Worlds>World Cup , i'm pretty sure 99% riders think the same way


I'd think they do as well, I personally view it;

1. Olympics
2. World Cup
3. Worlds

Then again I'm in the camp that thinks the World Champion should be crowned based off of the World Cup in lieu of a one race and it's yours as it is now.


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

If I think of the World Cup as the “regular season” and Worlds as the “playoffs”, I find it odd that the World Cup standings only determine grid order at Worlds (staggered start makes more sense), not to mention that Worlds is the penultimate race rather than the final race of the season.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

WRXJIM said:


> .Even if the overall shows more as a "big picture"


That's the exact reason I Personally value the Overall over the Stripes. Shows the most consistent, strong, healthy, and skilled racer on the world stage over the period of that season.

Not to take away anything from KC but for the 2018 SEASON she was not the best overall racer. She did phenomenal as she adapted to the Elite level and showed a lot of grit. She did however pull it off on one day the entire season and that just happened to be Worlds.

Someone mentioned Worlds as the Super Bowl of the season. It COULD be but by traditionally never will be. As it stands now it's merely who was the best racer in the world on 1 day of 365 days the previous year.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

zgxtreme said:


> That's the exact reason I Personally value the Overall over the Stripes. Shows the most consistent, strong, healthy, and skilled racer on the world stage over the period of that season.
> 
> Not to take away anything from KC but for the 2018 SEASON she was not the best overall racer. She did phenomenal as she adapted to the Elite level and showed a lot of grit. She did however pull it off on one day the entire season and that just happened to be Worlds.
> 
> Someone mentioned Worlds as the Super Bowl of the season. It COULD be but by traditionally never will be. As it stands now it's merely who was the best racer in the world on 1 day of 365 days the previous year.


What makes worlds the big race is everybody targets it. It is the event where everyone plans to have their best form. Of all the races in the year it is hardest to win. A good racer can have B format a World Cup and still win, because, well everyone else probably has B form. At worlds on the other hand you need A+ to even crack the top 5.

Catharine has 3 World Cup overall titles and two world championships. The World championships were way more significant.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

LMN said:


> Catharine has 3 World Cup overall titles and two world championships. The World championships were way more significant.


I don't disagree. What it is more; personally at least, is not viewing the structure from a western (American) mindset with respect to athletics. At times it's difficult to view it without making a correlation to say college football, the NFL, MLB, etc. when that is the structure you're accustomed to.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

zgxtreme said:


> I'd think they do as well, I personally view it;
> 
> 1. Olympics
> 2. World Cup
> ...


I too would much prefer to see the World Champ based off the World Cup overall. I get they all target that one race and try to peak then but the total season overall seems more deserving to me.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

I too as a viewer consider overall world cup winner the most important, worlds is nice, but it is a 1 day show, plenty of athletes who do well in 1 day events not so many in a long season. The Olympics to me is basically the same thing except every 4 years.


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

zgxtreme said:


> I don't disagree. What it is more; personally at least, is not viewing the structure from a western (American) mindset with respect to athletics. At times it's difficult to view it without making a correlation to say college football, the NFL, MLB, etc. when that is the structure you're accustomed to.


Worlds is seemingly akin to the playoffs in all of those sports - it's uncommon to see the best regular season team walk away with the championship due to the randomness of individuals games and series in the playoffs. The extra race after Worlds doesn't make any sense to this new fan however.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

GiddyHitch said:


> Worlds is seemingly akin to the playoffs in all of those sports - it's uncommon to see the best regular season team walk away with the championship due to the randomness of individuals games and series in the playoffs. The extra race after Worlds doesn't make any sense to this new fan however.


I could see it that way; a playoff, if you saw a smaller field based upon limiting the entries to those who performed best throughout the year whereas now you could tank the season and show up the one day it matters for the jersey and win it.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

sooshee said:


> I know it's been talked about Solider Hollow applying for a World Cup bid in Utah. That venue makes a little more sense logistics wise (it was a winter Olympic venue after all). It'll be interesting to see where that goes.


This would be freaking AWESOME. I've raced at both venues, and SoHo is waaay better. It's easier to get to, much prettier, and if they use the same XCO layout as they did for ProXCT this year, then it's super spectator friendly. Basically, you can stand at the rock garden for the rowdy fun, and still watch the rest of the race because you can see almost all of the course from that spot. Also, the Wasatch range is really pretty.

Snowshoe, OTOH, was not my favorite. I skipped Nats in 2018 because I hated it so much in 2017.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

LMN said:


> What makes worlds the big race is everybody targets it. It is the event where everyone plans to have their best form. Of all the races in the year it is hardest to win. A good racer can have B format a World Cup and still win, because, well everyone else probably has B form. At worlds on the other hand you need A+ to even crack the top 5.
> 
> Catharine has 3 World Cup overall titles and two world championships. The World championships were way more significant.


My only frame of reference for UCI XCO World Cup vs UCI XCO World Championships comes from FIS World Cup Alpine Skiing. Almost of the athletes openly state that while winning the annual FIS Alpine Championship event is amazing, it isn't as important as the World Cup.

Winning the overall title one generally has excelled in several different disciplines to accumulate enough points to win as well.

This all said, most World Cup Ski racers do appreciate the Olympics in a different way. Team selection, qualifying, and the build up to it brings a completely different mindset. Plus, winning gold puts you in the history books forever, just like the mountain bikers! The Olympic games are important for all athletes.

One point of interest which still amazes me is that Schurter won every single event he entered in 2017. Different, but somehow equally amazing is how dominate Mikaela Shiffrin is at moment in Women's Alpine.

BTW, Catherine is a total champ! I just watched a nice little video of her talking about the kid's program she is involved with. Delightful! Cheers to her!


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

See the difference for me (worlds vs WC, excluding Olympics) is that WC you turn up you race, you race a bunch and the overall winner is WC winner, which is great. Worlds you turn up for your country, you go over as a team and you race in your countries team jersey and you race for the rainbow jersey.
having said that I am far from a nationalist pride type of person, i'm not holding my hand over my heart, saluting the flag while saying "you race for you country", more that it is a different event. WC is WC, Worlds is Worlds. It's,a time when each country sends the best it has, it's just different, just more...hard to explain.




Or maybe you could track down and buy/copy/steal copies of VHS of the worlds through the 90's but WC's not so much, so that what I got to see of actual racing therefore, more important .


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

zgxtreme said:


> I could see it that way; a playoff, if you saw a smaller field based upon limiting the entries to those who performed best throughout the year whereas now you could tank the season and show up the one day it matters for the jersey and win it.


That's why a staggered start based on WC points (half second per point or whatever) makes the most sense to me. Anyone can win but the series leader is rewarded for their performance over the course of the season by having the most advantageous position to win.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Also, just me...that's a big no to the green light start, bring back the start gun! Just doesn't seem... right... dunno.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

mik_git said:


> Also, just me...that's a big no to the green light start, bring back the start gun! Just doesn't seem... right... dunno.


I agree. If they don't want to use a gun, they could program the sound into the speakers, triggered by the same device that controls the lights.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

LMN said:


> Worlds?
> 
> Mens:
> Top favorites: Nino and Flueckiger. I am going to give Flueckiger the edge here, I think he is climbing a bit better than Nino. Him only down fall is starts and MSA can punish you if you have a poor start.
> ...


My guess for the world

1. Jolanda "_Full attack"_ Neff
2. PFP - New and improved with good life blanance
3. Kate "_Hey Media, look at me I do all I can to be in the spotlight"_ Courtney
Dark horse: Jenny Rissveds starting from behind and Sina Frei

1. Fluckinger 
2. Nino
3. Avanchini

Will be interesting to follow: Really hope Batty nails it hit the podium. To sad to see her being so close last year to a win and then overshoot it this year.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

My vote:

Men: Nino
Women: Jenny


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## forrest_m (May 26, 2015)

zgxtreme said:


> She did however pull it off on one day the entire season and that just happened to be Worlds.


Somehow I doubt that anything about KC's WC race "just happened." My guess is that a very savvy coach realized that as a first year elite, being at top form all season wasn't realistic, but that they could build the entire season around peaking for that one day. And they absolutely nailed it.

I may be in the minority here, but I like the fact that the WC's are one day rather than a season-long championship, makes that one day the culmination of the whole season. I like the fact that this dynamic is the same in all cycling disciplines.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

mik_git said:


> Also, just me...that's a big no to the green light start, bring back the start gun! Just doesn't seem... right... dunno.


Light means no disadvantage to deaf riders.
Gun AND light means a slight advantage to non-impared riders. Head can be in a more natural position and you can be checking how that foot gets into the pedal.

Just light is fairer, but BRING BACK THE GUN, DAMMIT!
Start. Of. Race. Needs. Gun.

Doesn't matter what sort of race it is!

Ever since we were kids, the clapper and then the starters pistol were ingrained as the starting methods.


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

forrest_m said:


> I may be in the minority here, but I like the fact that the WC's are one day rather than a season-long championship, makes that one day the culmination of the whole season. I like the fact that this dynamic is the same in all cycling disciplines.


I'm onboard with Worlds being one day but I am still puzzled by the lack of incentive (to an outsider) to win the World Cup overall. Pride and bragging rights (and endorsements?) are obviously enough to motivate the racers themselves but it's still curious from an objective perspective.


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## emjayel (Apr 21, 2007)

I dunno about the whole light thing. I too miss the gun...the light is just so antidramatic. I get the deaf argument, but unless you are in the front two rows and deaf I just don't think it matters.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

It's not so much that I dislike the light, thats fine, just that there is no...I dunno, something. Now its like "oh well off they go then", before it was Bang! Go Time. I get they cant have a horn as they'll some muppet sounding one every 10 seconds...just something. Something as well as the light.

Oh and while we're at it, bring back the Blue leaders jersey. I know not sponsored by Grundig (and therefor blue), but this black and white one? The blue one was Blue, just all bright blue. This black and mostly white one, half the field are that... but then again I guess nobody wears it anyway they're all in WC/Euro champ/National jersey anyway.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

mik_git said:


> Oh and while we're at it, bring back the Blue leaders jersey. I know not sponsored by Grundig (and therefor blue), but this black and white one? The blue one was Blue, just all bright blue. This black and mostly white one, half the field are that... but then again I guess nobody wears it anyway they're all in WC/Euro champ/National jersey anyway.


Totally agree!


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

So how do we watch the race(s) in the US? Apparently Redbull is not providing coverage because NBC has the rights to the World Champs. VPN and use Redbull anyway, I guess?


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Red Bull is covering it. Clearly on their event calendar.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Nice piece by Kate Vourtney reflecting on her year in the rainbow stripes.

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/08/my-...urtney-reflects-on-her-season-as-world-champ/


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

DrewBird said:


> So how do we watch the race(s) in the US? Apparently Redbull is not providing coverage because NBC has the rights to the World Champs. VPN and use Redbull anyway, I guess?


Anyone got a recommended VPN to use?

I usually run Redbull TV on my fire TV. Home laptop is broken and I don't know if I can cast desktop to TV so that means work laptop. Work laptop seems to run through company server/vpn thing because it says I'm in Michigan instead of MN. This is not going to be fun.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I've never needed VPN with red bull tv before. Are you expecting something different this year?


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/how-to-watch-the-2019-mountain-bike-world-championships.html

I believe it will be blacked out in the US, i.e. if you got to redbull.tv from a US IP address you'll get an error message. I think a VPN is the only way to get it, as I think NBC-SN will have only spotty coverage shown in the middle of the night.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

You could probably find a live stream on reddit.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

ewarnerusa said:


> I've never needed VPN with red bull tv before. Are you expecting something different this year?


Geoblocking for any country that has the footage available to "normal" TV 
Even if that coverage is a 2min highlight package.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I used to use Hola for watching cyclocross races and road races on sporza.be, but it stopped working well and I never bothered keeping up. So this year I'll have to VPN to watch the MTB WC? This is a change from previous years, has there been a change in broadcasting rights?


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> Geoblocking for any country that has the footage available to "normal" TV
> Even if that coverage is a 2min highlight package.


...or if their "coverage" is midnight-2am, as is the case for DH on NBC-SN...


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Seems silly, a sport thats trying to expand, restricting coverage


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

UCI's explanation for geo-blocking

https://www.uci.org/watch-uci-events


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

ewarnerusa said:


> I used to use Hola for watching cyclocross races and road races on sporza.be, but it stopped working well and I never bothered keeping up. So this year I'll have to VPN to watch the MTB WC? This is a change from previous years, has there been a change in broadcasting rights?


Started using Hola again this year for access to US content (from Canada). It's been solid. I also had issues with it in the past. Worth trying again.

N=1.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

My guess for the worlds:

1. Jenny Rissveds
2. Yana Belomoina
3. Catharine Pendrel

1. Mathias Flückiger
2. Gerhard Kerschbaumer
3. Nino Schurter


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> UCI's explanation for geo-blocking
> 
> https://www.uci.org/watch-uci-events


$40us per month just to get the right channel here.

VPN it is.


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## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

Little confused about how to watch replay of World’s, I’m going to be in VA for SM100 this weekend & wont be able to watch live. 

Am I going to need to go the VPN route to watch replays?


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Headed to Mont-Sainte-Anne for the long weekend to watch the UCI races .....

For those that know... is it worth bringing a MTB? I'd like to get a decent ride or two in early morning before the action starts. Is any singletrack open to the public or is everything totally locked down? Or would a road/gravel bike be put to better use in the area?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Skier78 said:


> My guess for the worlds:
> 
> 1. Jenny Rissveds
> 2. Yana Belomoina
> ...


My guess:

Bontrager and specialized tires flat and affect women's race outcome in a suspenseful way.

Also,
Nino
Avancini
Cink

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

1 Rissveds
2 Ferrand Prevot
3 Pendrel

1 M Fluckiger
2 Schurter
3 Avancini


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## Mucker (Feb 14, 2004)

DrewBird said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/how-to-watch-the-2019-mountain-bike-world-championships.html
> 
> I believe it will be blacked out in the US, i.e. if you got to redbull.tv from a US IP address you'll get an error message. I think a VPN is the only way to get it, as I think NBC-SN will have only spotty coverage shown in the middle of the night.


My cable provider is comcast/xfinity:madman: I found the races searching for cycling events. The world champs is scheduled to be on the Olympic channel(one of NBC's sports channel). I have all the televised races scheduled to record. As of now the Women's XCO race is scheduled to start Saturday at 12:15pm edt and men's race is scheduled at 2:45pm edt. Both run times are 105 minutes. It looks like they are going to show the live event. I believe the same thing happened for CX world champs as well.

The downhill races don't look like they will be live and most likely a highlight reel. They are scheduled to record on sunday at 5:00pm for the women's race and 6:00pm for the men's race.

I'd rather watch on redbull. I have no idea who is going to do the commentary and I'm going to miss Rob and Bart if it's not them.


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## Boosted GP (Mar 10, 2007)

I am in South Africa and fear that it will be geolocked too so may not be able to stream on red bull. 


What VPN are you guys using? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CptSydor (Sep 20, 2007)

le_pedal said:


> Headed to Mont-Sainte-Anne for the long weekend to watch the UCI races .....
> 
> For those that know... is it worth bringing a MTB? I'd like to get a decent ride or two in early morning before the action starts. Is any singletrack open to the public or is everything totally locked down? Or would a road/gravel bike be put to better use in the area?


Been to MSA for the world cup a number of times in the past and yes, plenty of riding available and worth bringing the MTB.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

Boosted GP said:


> I am in South Africa and fear that it will be geolocked too so may not be able to stream on red bull.
> 
> What VPN are you guys using?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm in SA as well. Redbull will be airing it.


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## ToastR (Sep 21, 2005)

Boosted GP said:


> What VPN are you guys using?


This is frustrating indeed...
In the link to the Pinkbike article that Drewbird shared, there is helpful discussion in the comment section. I followed the suggestions for using the Opera browser.


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## Boosted GP (Mar 10, 2007)

winters.benjamin said:


> I'm in SA as well. Redbull will be airing it.
> 
> View attachment 1275079


But it seems all the broadcasts are in Portuguese or German. No English.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Boosted GP (Mar 10, 2007)

ToastR said:


> This is frustrating indeed...
> In the link to the Pinkbike article that Drewbird shared, there is helpful discussion in the comment section. I followed the suggestions for using the Opera browser.


Thsnks for the info. I missed the pinkbike link above. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ToastR (Sep 21, 2005)

Mucker said:


> My cable provider is comcast/xfinity:madman: The world champs is scheduled to be on the Olympic channel


On Directv it looks like Sat. The Olympic Channel has Women's at 11:15-1:00p and again later; with Men's at 1:45-3:30p and again later. Rebroadcasts in following days as well.

I'll still try to figure out a way to see Redbull coverage with Bart tho.


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

ToastR said:


> I'll still try to figure out a way to see Redbull coverage with Bart tho.


How can you do Rob dirty like that?


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## ToastR (Sep 21, 2005)

Ha! I definitely Love Rob - but Bart just slays me


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Not to turn this into a VPN thread, but I just signed up for a month of a vpn. I chose United States (as that's where I'm at) for now...but am I right to assume when I go to watch RedBull TV for the world champs, I simply choose another country to surf from? Any quick suggestions with english speaking Rob/Bart? the UK maybe? The list I found of geo-blocked countries is: (*Geo-blockings: Argentina, Australia, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Chile, Denmark, Ecuador, Italy, Malaysia, New Zealand, Paraguay, Switzerland, Singapore, South Africa, Uruguay, USA, Venezuela)

So as long as it's not them? Canada I guess?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Geez this is dumb/confusing/stupid and still dumb..
So Foxtel have the rights here in OZ, foxtel sux the big...but luckily (or unluckily)I have it already... seesm they are showing the DH live, which is nice I guess... but he XC doesn't seem to be, on tue for womens and friday for mens next week...so no chance of missing spoilers (also still on at 2am even though nearly a week later).
SBS (free to air) usually have a highlights package...they do a huge amount for cycling here... but don't appear to be airing anything soonish...

UCI say if it's got a broadcaster they will block the redbull stream, unless its not live... but the list of streams I can see has gone from all, to XC in german and portugese... not looking good.

Blerg.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

For those that will be geoblocked, but still want to watch the race live I would recommend swallowing the pill and just pay the $10usd for one month of VPN service and watch it on redbulltv. Plenty of good offers in that range. 

If you are reluctant to pay $10usd for just the race, you are out of luck I think, just go ride instead.


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

So wait, is the German or Portuguese broadcasts an option for those in the US without a VPN? I don't mind German, I was fluent at the end of high school. Time to brush up on those skills!

I actually fly to NH on Friday... briefly considered doing an overnight drive up to MSA, as I'll be 3 hours away. But alas, family time is winning out.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

CptSydor said:


> Been to MSA for the world cup a number of times in the past and yes, plenty of riding available and worth bringing the MTB.


Sweet! Thanks for the info.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

sooshee said:


> So wait, is the German or Portuguese broadcasts an option for those in the US without a VPN? I don't mind German, I was fluent at the end of high school. Time to brush up on those skills!


I think that's the issue, nobody really knows...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

J.A. Hermida is on board as a commentator for Red Bull...


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## jarhead22 (Feb 26, 2014)

any links to the team relay replays?


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

jarhead22 said:


> any links to the team relay replays?


The only thing I've seen so far is the weak-a$$ "re-cap" on the UCI YouTube channel.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

They've added some new features for the World Champs


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Emily Batty saying she AVERAGES 191bpm in XCO races!


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Just a heads up, Canadian Cyclist is posting a work around if Canadian viewers find Red Bull coverage geo-blocked using CBC's streaming service...

If your access to the LIVE Red Bull broadcast for Canada is blocked by geo-restriction try https://gem.cbc.ca/live/1591506499565 for the Elite Women's race at 12:15pm ET
and
https://gem.cbc.ca/live/1591534147608 for the Elite men's race at 14:45 ET


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## Dphoward (Jul 29, 2013)

Delete


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Anybody knows why Bart isn't commentating?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I'm guessing becasue the comantary team is in some redbull place not in canada (- edit, hanger 7 at salzber airport
) and Bart is at MSA. 
Go OZ!


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

mik_git said:


> I'm guessing becasue the comantary team is in some redbull place not in canada (- edit, hanger 7 at salzber airport
> ) and Bart is at MSA.
> Go OZ!


Oh thanks!, I just sort of realized that on this last shot of the studio where they were commentating.

What a season PFP had, from low to high hitting the ultimate cusp.

The track was phenomenal, truly an xco track. You could see riders being challenged and paying for their mistakes as well.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Hola vpn mobile app worked great for me in USA. I had hola set to Belgium and launched redbull tv app from within Hola and it worked flawlessly


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

luckily they didn't end up geoblocking OZ, so RB on the PS4 for me.

Was a pretty good race, I was hoping for Rebecca... but figured it wouldn't happen...still bronze is pretty good. But PFP just smoke everyone from nowhere. Also I though KC was done aftger lap 2. Also looked like a big crash for Pendral.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

Saw on the preview of the course that Nino was back on Aspens? Or was that a practice wheelset? But DEFINITELY Aspens.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

They should consider hiring Hermida on regular base. Way better then Bart, and at least some sense for humor.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

You gotta feel for kerschbaumer


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Man, it was great having Hermida. Bart is cool but Jose is a more recent racer than Bart and there was a lot of fresh insight there. For example, interesting facts such as the previous XCO WC winning bike weighing just 7.8kg!

And his sense of humour and general demeanour was awesome. With Rob too, we are very lucky with our commentators, especially compared to other sports.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

You do indeed have to feel for GK. But somehow I feel, with MF flattie and poor change, that overall justice was restored.

Congratulations to Nino, a superb ambassador for our sport.


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

The replays are available on Hulu if you have the live tv package (in the US)


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Did Kerschbaumer have tire inserts?


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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

From pinkbike:
"For the men, there was heartbreak for Gerhart Kerschbaumer as he flatted and lost his second-place finish due to his mechanics leaving the tech zone early."


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

Definitely a huge bummer, though I agree there was some goes around/comes around with MF flatting earlier. 

That said I’d guess that stopping for a rear wheel change vs. running/riding the last few hundred M (tech zone was just before finish line) would’ve been close to a wash. Gaps were really tight 2nd-5th. 

I didn’t see an insert in his tire; time to get one I guess!


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

What's the thing with inserts? Ok if they would be running tubes, I sort of get it. But with tubeless, I don't see any way how they would work, except that you might be still riding on flat tire, which would probably saved medal to Kerschbaumer, but wouldn't change a thing to Flueckinger or Tempier, as I doubt they would still ride several laps on inserts only.
99% of my flats are stone making hole through tire, not snakebites what inserts would probably prevent. After stop using tubes ages ago, I don't think I had a single snakebite, and I don't see any chance for inserts to prevent flat when "sharp" stone/rock protrudes tire creates whole that sealant doesn't fill.
Any better explanation from anyone running them/having checked them a bit deeper?
Edited: Ok I guess I was looking this from wrong (my) side of view, thinking how could this help me (as non racer) preventing flats. I guess for racers it's important to be able to ride to next feed/tech zone, not so much about preventing flats. For that, I guess inserts work like magic.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

My experience suggests that he'd be able to ride at a pretty significant speed on the property sized insert to the next tech support station. The insert would keep the tire on the rim.

Nube Tire Inserts
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...tbr.com/showthread.php?t=1091209&share_type=t

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

DrewBird said:


> Definitely a huge bummer, though I agree there was some goes around/comes around with MF flatting earlier.
> 
> That said I'd guess that stopping for a rear wheel change vs. running/riding the last few hundred M (tech zone was just before finish line) would've been close to a wash. Gaps were really tight 2nd-5th.
> 
> I didn't see an insert in his tire; time to get one I guess!


Apparently his' team had left the tech zone for the finish...


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Do you think Nino would have won if MVDP had've been racing?


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

madfella said:


> Do you think Nino would have won if MVDP had've been racing?


We'll never know for sure. But I'd be surprised. MVDP is the only one that can consistently out-Nino, Nino. No one else can summon that kind of power repeatedly and still have something left at the end to wear Nino out. I for one am very disappointed that MVDP didn't choose *this* worlds over the road. I'll be watching in a couple weeks, but I'm not super hopeful that he can pull this off.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

madfella said:


> Do you think Nino would have won if MVDP had've been racing?


We will never know, but honestly, I think Nino we saw on Saturday is unbeatable. Sure I could be wrong, but only way to prove me wrong, would be if Mathieu would be on start and would have one of best days of his life. But as he wasn't we will never know.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

primoz said:


> What's the thing with inserts? Ok if they would be running tubes, I sort of get it. But with tubeless, I don't see any way how they would work, except that you might be still riding on flat tire, which would probably saved medal to Kerschbaumer, but wouldn't change a thing to Flueckinger or Tempier, as I doubt they would still ride several laps on inserts only.


On the MSA course people were snake biting the tire itself.

More than any other course it is one where you both want low pressure and high pressure. The climbs are technical and slippery that low pressure makes a big difference, but the descents are so rough that you want higher air pressure for protection.

A tire insert allows you to run that lower pressure for grip without giving up pinch flat protection. Also as Duke said you can ride at a reasonable pace on an insert when flat.

The addition of the drop this year I think cause a lot of the flat and crashes. When you came off the drop your entrance speed for the next section was so high that you ended airing sections that you use to roll.

I actually ended up giving both of my insert to racers who suffered from repeated flats in training. Race day they had strong flat free races.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

primoz said:


> What's the thing with inserts? Ok if they would be running tubes, I sort of get it. But with tubeless, I don't see any way how they would work, except that you might be still riding on flat tire, which would probably saved medal to Kerschbaumer, but wouldn't change a thing to Flueckinger or Tempier, as I doubt they would still ride several laps on inserts only.


On the MSA course people were snake biting the tire itself.

More than any other course it is one where you both want low pressure and high pressure. The climbs are technical and slippery that low pressure makes a big difference, but the descents are so rough that you want higher air pressure for protection.

A tire insert allows you to run that lower pressure for grip without giving up pinch flat protection. Also as Duke said you can ride at a reasonable pace on an insert when flat.

The addition of the drop this year I think cause a lot of the flat and crashes. When you came off the drop your entrance speed for the next section was so high that you ended airing sections that you use to roll.

I actually ended up giving both of my insert to racers who suffered from repeated flats in training. Race day they had strong flat free races.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

primoz said:


> We will never know, but honestly, I think Nino we saw on Saturday is unbeatable. Sure I could be wrong, but only way to prove me wrong, would be if Mathieu would be on start and would have one of best days of his life. But as he wasn't we will never know.


Shame he wasn't there, as msa seems the single most MTB skills specific course. I mean, I get the feeling that if you can win at msa, then you are the real deal as a truly exceptionally skilled mtber.


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

are re-runs available anywhere? I don't see them on RedbullTV.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

rallymaniac said:


> are re-runs available anywhere? I don't see them on RedbullTV.


https://www.redbull.com/int-en/events/uci-mountain-bike-world-championships-2019


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

TDLover said:


> https://www.redbull.com/int-en/events/uci-mountain-bike-world-championships-2019


thank you sir


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

First, great thanks (even before end in Snowshoe) to Red Bull TV for the work they did in past (5?) years. 

They have really transformed the availability and taken the XCO production to the next level, with not only availability to see the races, but quality production and entertaining commentary.

Probably the most enjoyable were the interviews with racers afterwards, where I enjoyed the human face of racers. 

I was never a Nino fan (Absalon was always my pick as more silent athlete), mostly due the image of "Hunt for Glory" as the glorification of an athlete, making them a hero while they are just very talented and committed individuals (not hero's any more than nurses, doctors, pilots, single parents, parents with disabled children, engineers, continue..)

Listening to normal Nino (not pushed by Scott to advertise) after the race made it much better, mentioning MvdP as good for the sport post race where he beat you at home turf, listening to MvdP saying winning a WC race was harder than the accomplishments he did so far is one of the components why I like the sport.

Anyway, for man a bit of an anticlimax - at least for top place, for woman, whew, what a season. 

Thanks again Red Bull.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

4 days later still haven't figured out how to watch World Champs replay in the US. Have NBC SN and Redbull and SlingTV and basic cable...any clues?


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

pinkpowa said:


> 4 days later still haven't figured out how to watch World Champs replay in the US. Have NBC SN and Redbull and SlingTV and basic cable...any clues?


I believe you would have to purchase the NBC Sports Gold Cycling sub. $55.00. can watch all the replays and the road and cx races coming up also. I have the motocross/supercross sub and it's been good.


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## Tim22 (Sep 11, 2010)

Only the DH on NBC Gold package so far. No signs of XCO


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

Tim22 said:


> Only the DH on NBC Gold package so far. No signs of XCO


Thats strange, i am watching the womens xco right now.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

I thought the coverage of all events was fantastic. Would have loved to see Van Der Poel racing, kind of boring without him.


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

pinkpowa said:


> 4 days later still haven't figured out how to watch World Champs replay in the US. Have NBC SN and Redbull and SlingTV and basic cable...any clues?


Download the "HOLA" plugin (its free), change your location to Belgium and go to RedBull. Its how I am watching it.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I was able to watch the races live on the "Olympic Channel". It looks to be an NBC channel. They are still replaying it. I think it'll eventually end up on Redbull TV.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

I used Hola via Chrome with France set as my country, worked great.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I just realized that my Samsung smart TV has a redbull tv app. So in addition to tablet and phone, the occulus and Xbox and smart TV all have redbull tv viewing capability. The navigation of the app is tough to manage though.


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

ewarnerusa said:


> I just realized that my Samsung smart TV has a redbull tv app. So in addition to tablet and phone, the occulus and Xbox and smart TV all have redbull tv viewing capability. The navigation of the app is tough to manage though.


yeah, RedbullTV has one of the more difficult interfaces I've seen. On my TV app i usually end up going to the "events" and either loot at the future or past ones to find what I need.


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## Tim22 (Sep 11, 2010)

joeduda said:


> Thats strange, i am watching the womens xco right now.


Showed up in the evening. Strange. I also have the SX/MX package and have had several issues with that package also.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Snowshoe! Anyone going? Is there a preview of the XC course anywhere? kinda curious bout it.


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## Austin-nc (Apr 18, 2018)

zephxiii said:


> Snowshoe! Anyone going? Is there a preview of the XC course anywhere? kinda curious bout it.


I was there riding last weekend. I am headed up again tommorow morning but from what I can see they added a pretty gnarly man made rock garden and a couple drops and some new really nice bridges judging by what I know about the mountain and seeing the layout it wont be wildly steep

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm heading out tomorrow, going to miss the short track though. Bummed about that. But I couldn't get today off, so sat/sun will have to be good enough. Coming from Chicagoland.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Is there a reason short track is not acknowledged as a World Championship event?


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

idk it's mostly a thing to mix up the points battle a bit. 

So what's the parking situation gonna be like? Cost? Any chance of parking at the top? Anywhere to buy showers?


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

zephxiii said:


> Snowshoe! Anyone going? Is there a preview of the XC course anywhere? kinda curious bout it.


I'm skipping it. The cost/benefit analysis wasn't favorable. I'd enjoy it better from my couch watching the coverage from multiple angles.


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## ToastR (Sep 21, 2005)

primoz said:


> We will never know, but honestly, I think Nino we saw on Saturday is unbeatable. Sure I could be wrong, but only way to prove me wrong, would be if Mathieu would be on start and would have one of best days of his life. But as he wasn't we will never know.


This. 
I too would have really liked to see how MF would have fared without a flat. My guess is that he would've clawed N1no back each time but wouldn't have been quite able to close the gap quick enough when N1no did his last acceleration and would've been 2nd across the finish line anyway.


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## maxflia (Aug 18, 2016)

How kid friendly are these events? We are staying at Snoeshow Saturday night and I am trying to decide if I should bring my 6 year old or just make it a "romantic" weekend with the wife. My son likes Mt Biking, but other then the jumps on the DH is he going to be bored? What kind of crowds are you guys expecting?


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## Austin-nc (Apr 18, 2018)

maxflia said:


> How kid friendly are these events? We are staying at Snoeshow Saturday night and I am trying to decide if I should bring my 6 year old or just make it a "romantic" weekend with the wife. My son likes Mt Biking, but other then the jumps on the DH is he going to be bored? What kind of crowds are you guys expecting?


Generally snowshoe is very kid friendly but I imagine as with any large crowd drinking beer all weekend he may learn some new language but other than that I think hed Love it. Lots of places to walk around the DH course and watch from steep areas/jumps etc. I was up there riding last weekend and someone said they're expecting 25k people but that was speculation. I will say there is not one room for rent on the whole mountain.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Train Wreck said:


> Is there a reason short track is not acknowledged as a World Championship event?


Pure speculation, but I think that a short track would be too much to ask from the organizers. With Relay, juniors, U23s, and Seniors + DH they have a very full week.


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## maxflia (Aug 18, 2016)

What about food? Do you think Snowshoe will be able to handle the crowds? I have not been up there since the mid 90's


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

maxflia said:


> What about food? Do you think Snowshoe will be able to handle the crowds? I have not been up there since the mid 90's


I'd recommend taking some food of your own.
As for crowds, it's shaping up to be the quietest World Cup of the year.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Sure wish there was more XC races in a season. Can't believe the season is coming to an end already.

Men XCO - Nino, M Flueckiger, Kerschbaumer

Women XCO - PFP, R McConnell, Neff

The course preview like another CX course with some new XCO features. I miss single track.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Nino's best ever chance to win a short track


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Jenny is such a classy rider.

Talking to the European riders at worlds last week and hearing from them this week they have all commented on how awesome the north american fans are. They really appreciate the non-partisan crowds who cheer for everyone.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

LMN said:


> Jenny is such a classy rider.


What do you mean, did we miss some context?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TDLover said:


> What do you mean, did we miss some context?


She approaches the sport with such class. From racing, to interview, to social media. I have a lot of respect with how she conducts herself.


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

If two riders are tied on points in the overall World Cup, what is the tiebreaker? KC and Neff could end up tied after Sunday's race if, for example, KC finishes 3rd and Neff finishes 5th.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

From the UCI site:

"Riders tying on points are ranked by the greatest number of 1st places, 2nd places, etc. (total points in the standings of the concerned round) taking account only of places for which points are awarded for the world cup. If they are still tied, the points scored in the most recent world cup event are used to separate them."


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

It's been a fantastic and exciting season. I can't believe it's almost over...

Two biggest surprises for me:
1. How awesome Jenny and Pauline's comebacks have been. Great work ladies!
2. Really surprised Anton Cooper hasn't been in the mix more. He was so strong last year..

Honorable mention: Cool to see Tempier up towards the front again...


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Yeah, Cooper has had a forgettable one. In fact Trek Factory has had a forgettable one. (Not compared to Specialized though).

Great work by Tituoan Carod in the short track, good to see him back at the very pointy end.


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Great women’s XCC once again. That course was fast and fun to watch on TV. Jenny continues her ascension with great showings from Pauline and Kate. What happened to Jolanda though? First time all season I recall her blowing up and not recovering - she’s been insanely consistent this year. Shaping up to be a dramatic finale on Sunday. 

And then there’s Nino throwing in a tail whip over one of the bridges in the middle of the lead group.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I was sad to see Avancini lose his front wheel and crash in the last lap of the short track race. I believe he'd have won if not as he was racing smart. Was he using the "rear specific" Racing Ralph on the front? I've noticed some Schwalbe sponsored athletes doing this and I wondered about cornering traction. If he was, he may want to consider using the "front specific" Racing Ray for the XCO race on Sunday.


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

If anyone is interested, I put together this table showing the outcomes in the Women's Overall World Cup for different XCO results for Courtney and Neff:

Overall WC Race Snowshoe XCO

If you make your own copy you can plug in different positions for the Short Track results from yesterday at the bottom and see how the race would have looked with different Short Track results.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

My inner nostalgia is already missing the Blue SIDs.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Stonerider said:


> I was sad to see Avancini lose his front wheel and crash in the last lap of the short track race. I believe he'd have won if not as he was racing smart. Was he using the "rear specific" Racing Ralph on the front? I've noticed some Schwalbe sponsored athletes doing this and I wondered about cornering traction. If he was, he may want to consider using the "front specific" Racing Ray for the XCO race on Sunday.


Or maybe a grass/cyclocross tire. Sliding out on grass happens.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Just got around to watching short track, what a win by Jenny, and that post race interview was also incredible. It appears to me that the crowd attendance was pretty solid, and Jenny commented how nice they were, wish I was there. 

On another note, track preview is out, and it looks like there could be a ton of flats. Definitely a power track. My picks: Jenny for the women, she looks super strong, and Avancini for the men, I think he finally gets over the hill with a win.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Riders are going to get dizzy out there tomorrow. Fastest lap will be around 11 minutes for the women and under 9 for the men. I expect the men will be facing 9 or 10 laps.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

LMN said:


> Riders are going to get dizzy out there tomorrow. Fastest lap will be around 11 minutes for the women and under 9 for the men. I expect the men will be facing 9 or 10 laps.


Yeah, and drafting apparently will be a factor. Should be a different type of race. 
Anyone know what happened with M.Fluekinger during the Short Track, saw no sign of him.

On another subject, the finale of the DH was very dramatic. If you haven't seen or heard, I'd recommedn watching at least the final 7-8 riders.


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

dwperry said:


> If anyone is interested, I put together this table showing the outcomes in the Women's Overall World Cup for different XCO results for Courtney and Neff:
> 
> Overall WC Race Snowshoe XCO
> 
> If you make your own copy you can plug in different positions for the Short Track results from yesterday at the bottom and see how the race would have looked with different Short Track results.


This is rad, dwperry. I just hope I can avoid social enough to not have the race spoiled before I have a chance to watch the replay (have my Sunday ride and then daughter's skate lesson in the morning). Your calculations echo what KC said at the post-XCC interview - that she does her best when she's forced to win the race rather than race conservatively or be tactical about points. With Neff blowing up in XCC this storyline will be riveting, along with Jenny, Pauline, Lea and Chloe, etc.


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

madfella said:


> Yeah, and drafting apparently will be a factor. Should be a different type of race.
> Anyone know what happened with M.Fluekinger during the Short Track, saw no sign of him.
> 
> On another subject, the finale of the DH was very dramatic. If you haven't seen or heard, I'd recommedn watching at least the final 7-8 riders.


Flückiger didn't travel to the US. He is attending the XCM WC in Switzerland next weekend.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

chilla13 said:


> Flückiger didn't travel to the US. He is attending the XCM WC in Switzerland next weekend.


Thanks.
half way through. Cmon Kate holds it together !


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Did Rob just say "Neff had a great season, she will be very happy with it"?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

The US needs more UCI races. We’re way, way ahead of the Netherlands if you add up our top 3s WC points. But slightly behind on UCI points, when I looked yesterday. Might have swapped back after today. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Did you compare the totale citizens between the USA and Holland? Holland is doing quiet good with xco.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G973F met Tapatalk


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Still need more! 

I’m still convinced if someone put the effort in, Bentonville/Bella Vista could host an epic WC stop on the calendar. Being centrally located it could draw a very healthy crowd from both the western and eastern sections of the country.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> The US needs more UCI races. We're way, way ahead of the Netherlands if you add up our top 3s WC points. But slightly behind on UCI points, when I looked yesterday. Might have swapped back after today.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually the only reason the US is the not the number 1 ranked nation (women's side) is that it 2 and 3 point earners missed a couple of world cups this year.

I have not done the math but I have a loosely held hunch that there are nearly as many UCI points available in the US as there is in France, Italy or Switzerland.

Edit: Just did a rough count but both Switzerland and the US have 13 races that count towards XC points, with what looks like the US having more higher ranked XC races.

Now that you can count up to three stage races towards UCI points, to have a good ranking you need to do at least one or two stage races. That is why Catharine is only home for a week before she heads to Israel to do a stage race.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

You just gotta wonder if there was some conversation after that finish in the men's race.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

I was pretty sure Lars wasn't gonna do fiinsh against Nino, after Nino pulled him entire lap, but probably desire to win was so big he had do, although it seemed like Nino wasn't too bummed about that, but in his mind i'm sure it's bugging him.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Raikzz said:


> I was pretty sure Lars wasn't gonna do fiinsh against Nino, after Nino pulled him entire lap, but probably desire to win was so big he had do, although it seemed like Nino wasn't too bummed about that, but in his mind i'm sure it's bugging him.


Has the overall series win... I'll bet 5/24/2020 will be a good day for Nino=33.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Joe Handlebar said:


> You just gotta wonder if there was some conversation after that finish in the men's race.


Hopefully it was a huge congrats and nothing more. I don't think Nino wants any record handed to him, I sure wouldn't.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Joe Handlebar said:


> You just gotta wonder if there was some conversation after that finish in the men's race.


I think there was nothing but high-fives. When you have 32 XCO wins, 8 world championships, 7 overall championships, a Gold, Silver and Bronze at the Olympics you get excited to see your teammate win his first World Cup.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

kevbikemad said:


> Hopefully it was a huge congrats and nothing more. I don't think Nino wants any record handed to him, I sure wouldn't.


Agreed! If I were in Nino's position, I'd want to be able to say I fought for, and earned by myself, each of those wins.

I believe he's going to break that record.

Sent from my SM-J710MN using Tapatalk


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

What an amazing weekend and year for Scott SRAM. Winners all around. Would love to be a fly on the wall at the team party tonite!


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

As an American;

The women’s race gave me hope. 

The men’s race left me longing for the days of Ned, Tinker, and Tomac. 

As a fan, what a season and today was a great end. I’m of the club that also thinks Nino’s celebration was legit and heartfelt. None of these guys want a hand out.


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

LMN said:


> I think there was nothing but high-fives. When you have 32 XCO wins, 8 world championships, 7 overall championships, a Gold, Silver and Bronze at the Olympics you get excited to see your teammate win his first World Cup.


And, you can afford to be generous. See Nino celebrate as Lars crossed the line? TBH I wonder if some of the work he did on the last lap was to pull Lars free, once he saw they were the lead group. Classy behavior all around IMHO.


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

Just want to say quick that this Snowshoe was an awesome experience. Took the whole family (kids 7 and 9 yrs old and a wife who didn't have any interest really in MTB) and everyone loved it. Yes, the WiFi and lack of cell reception sucked (3 hrs to find my brother who drove up from NC to meet us). Yes, the course wasn't that hard, although I think it was harder than most people realize (very bumpy, couple of really hard tech sections and some brutal climbs), we saw at least 7-8 flats on the guys race alone. All in all, it was really a great time. The kids loved seeing all their favorite racers, standing 3 feet from Nino and Viktor K. right before they were announced to start, seeing Jolanda and Evie, meeting Anika (who autographed their bells on a personal level and even took a knee to talk to them face to face!), and watching countless pro's warm up on the road (kids constantly yelling about who went flying by). We all would love to go back. Was it perfect? Nope. But it was fun.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

On another note...I could be mistaken, but I think Nino raced with a 40t chainring...


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

looks like Pepi's tire noodles saved the day for Nino


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## forrest_m (May 26, 2015)

Did anyone else think that PFP's pass on the last climb was a bit out of line? Obviously not illegal, but maybe unnecessary? Sure, she had to come around on the rough line to the left, and at this level, Terpstra only *deserves* the position she can defend, but still...

Was it just smart racing to force Terpstra to grab her brakes on the steepest section of the circuit? It did, after all, give PFP the gap that she held to the line. It's not the first time I've noticed that Pauline pull that sort of move, when she makes a pass, she often comes around in a way that forces people off their line.

I don't think it's just me - my 14-y.o. daughter's reaction was "wow, PFP sure races like an a**hole". 

(I'm conscious of the potential gender bias here - I've been asking myself if I would just call it "aggressive racing" if it were the men's race? But I don't think so. I remember reacting about the same when Nino cut off Avancini in that uphill rooty corner in Andorra (?), and that wasn't even in the finale!)


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

forrest_m said:


> Did anyone else think that PFP's pass on the last climb was a bit out of line? Obviously not illegal, but maybe unnecessary? Sure, she had to come around on the rough line to the left, and at this level, Terpstra only *deserves* the position she can defend, but still...
> 
> Was it just smart racing to force Terpstra to grab her brakes on the steepest section of the circuit? It did, after all, give PFP the gap that she held to the line. It's not the first time I've noticed that Pauline pull that sort of move, when she makes a pass, she often comes around in a way that forces people off their line.
> 
> ...


Didn't Lars make the exact same move in that same spot? Looked like PFP thought she was clear when she moved over.


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## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

The cleanest pass? No
Unnecessary? Also no

IMO, given the circumstances, looked fine to me. If it had been midway through the race and they were working together, maybe then I would think of it as unnecessary.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I agree 100% with afalts. It was last lap action racing for the win.


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## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

RE PFP's pass it was abrupt she likely thought she was moving faster than she was and had room. I like how Bart held back when Rob asked what he though.
Is it "part of racing"? Sure but it is not the cleanest method. I think given that the end sprint was on a long level hard surface Terpstra had an opportunity to win so the pass/cutoff did not decide the race.

One thing this season left me thinking is how 3 years ago Trek ended their contract with Rebecca McConnell and now she is finishing in top positions. Watching the ladies race is always great because there are so many contenders.


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

teleken said:


> RE PFP's pass it was abrupt she likely thought she was moving faster than she was and had room. I like how Bart held back when Rob asked what he though.
> Is it "part of racing"? Sure but it is not the cleanest method. I think given that the end sprint was on a long level hard surface Terpstra had an opportunity to win so the pass/cutoff did not decide the race.
> 
> One thing this season left me thinking is how 3 years ago Trek ended their contract with Rebecca McConnell and now she is finishing in top positions. Watching the ladies race is always great because there are so many contenders.


Terpstra had the opportunity to be on the wheel of Pauline all the way until it leveled out and then hammer it. Looking at the gap at the final straight i'd say that she wouldn't be able to hold off Pauline anyway.

Regarding your Trek comment, yes it's nice to see Rebecca come around. It looks like lately Trek team is where talents get wasted...


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

rallymaniac said:


> Regarding your Trek comment, yes it's nice to see Rebecca come around. It looks like lately Trek team is where talents get wasted...


This leads me to a question I've been meaning to pose to LMN for awhile.

How much influence and responsibility do the teams take on with respect to rider development? Is it rather involved; i.e. Team Sky (extreme example) or is it more on your own with the coach of your choice?

It seems like TFR is accomplishing nothing. Emily has yet to reach her potential. Anton same. Yolanda actually fell back a bit this year. This one is relative, still contending but not as dominant which could (1) be Trek or (2) the growth of the women's field (which in one aspect could be the development their teams invest in them).


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## exodus1500 (Jun 5, 2010)

zgxtreme said:


> This leads me to a question I've been meaning to pose to LMN for awhile.
> 
> How much influence and responsibility do the teams take on with respect to rider development? Is it rather involved; i.e. Team Sky (extreme example) or is it more on your own with the coach of your choice?
> 
> It seems like TFR is accomplishing nothing. Emily has yet to reach her potential. Anton same. Yolanda actually fell back a bit this year. This one is relative, still contending but not as dominant which could (1) be Trek or (2) the growth of the women's field (which in one aspect could be the development their teams invest in them).


How do you know that Batty has yet to reach her potential? How do you know what anyone's potential is?


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## ToastR (Sep 21, 2005)

Sad that the WC season is over!
But now that we can look back, it would be interesting to hear opinions on the following...
1. Did N1no's results come from his team planning his peak(s) perfectly? Or did he attempt to dominate and simply was impacted by a lower level of fitness and/or MvDP?
2. Were Kate's late season results d/t overtraining?
3. Do PFPs (and Jenny's) late season results underline the importance of time off the bike or just reflect Champions "getting it right"?
4. Is Jolanda's style of training that results in a consistently high level, prevent her from being able to peak in a way that allows her to hold a pace that gets a couple WC wins? Or do we see her having reached her limits and the competition has elevated.

Some random post-season thoughts:
- I loved seeing Fumic at the front in Snowshoe being so aggressive; bouncing off posts, spraying rocks on the downhill section, harassing Nino, running into fences and jumping right up...
- The women's races were awesome!!! So fun to see Rebecca, Terpstra, Jenny mixing it up with the typical front runners. 
- I was so bummed about all of Tauber's mishaps - really admire her attitude and how classy she is - her results could've looked a lot different. 
- the green light start is sure anti-climactic...
- I really enjoyed seeing guys like Cink, Tempier and Sarrou in the mix animating the races. And of course MvDP. 
- A big Thank You to Red Bull TV for awesome coverage!! And Rob/Bart/Jose for insightful and entertaining commentary!! I think Bart won the "as well" contest. They could add an "...as well" T-shirt to the #root-trees one


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

zgxtreme said:


> This leads me to a question I've been meaning to pose to LMN for awhile.
> 
> How much influence and responsibility do the teams take on with respect to rider development? Is it rather involved; i.e. Team Sky (extreme example) or is it more on your own with the coach of your choice?
> 
> It seems like TFR is accomplishing nothing. Emily has yet to reach her potential. Anton same. Yolanda actually fell back a bit this year. This one is relative, still contending but not as dominant which could (1) be Trek or (2) the growth of the women's field (which in one aspect could be the development their teams invest in them).


Pure speculation, but perhaps they are forced to ride a bike they are not happy with.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

LMN said:


> I think there was nothing but high-fives. When you have 32 XCO wins, 8 world championships, 7 overall championships, a Gold, Silver and Bronze at the Olympics you get excited to see your teammate win his first World Cup.


Well from my view in the balcony right above them and listening to them talk, it was nothing but high fives and excitement by Nino and the entire team for forester getting his win.

This isnt the TDF


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

madfella said:


> Pure speculation, but perhaps they are forced to ride a bike they are not happy with.


While this is probably True (especially with what I overheard at the race from who I think were family members of the racers.  ), I think what you are seeing is a combination or poorly timed training, and overloading by a few athletes this season that shouldnt be there next.

In the womens racing, you have 5 very dangerous women who have come into form and will be threats at the top in future years along with two former champions that have overcome health issues and are now back in on form.

Given the fact that there are a solid 8-10 women who are dangerous enough to win any given week, I dont think you can ever speculate on someones performance if they are finishing in the top 8ish. Kate getting 5th after going out with a detonating Jolanda was a huge accomplishment. That's probably the hardest 5th place I have ever seen. It would not be surprising if Jolanda was just sick given the way her body just threw on the governor in Both races. Who cares, that stuff happens to everyone throughout the year.


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## Udyr (Jul 29, 2013)

madfella said:


> Pure speculation, but perhaps they are forced to ride a bike they are not happy with.


This was my thought.

No XCO wins for the new Trek bike and it seems like the riders picked the hardtail whenever they could.

Edit: although I'll also add that according to several DH pros I know, it takes 2 years to get comfortable and find the center of a new bike, so it could just be too new.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Udyr said:


> No XCO wins for the new Trek bike and it seems like the riders picked the hardtail whenever they could.


I thought the opposite. Was seeing the Super Caliber on tracks where others were riding hard tails?


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

The new trek supercaliber is a terrible bike choice for Neff, at 10.18kg with dropper is just not competitive. Compared to the 100mm rear suspension spark from Kate at 9.8kg or the hardtail scale at 9kg with dropper the difference is too great. You are basically carrying extra weight and only getting 60mm of rear travel. Despite all this, I bet this isn't the reason Neff didn't win this season, she could win on a beater at the best of her form.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

TDLover said:


> The new trek supercaliber is a terrible bike choice for Neff, at 10.18kg with dropper is just not competitive. Compared to the 100mm rear suspension spark from Kate at 9.8kg or the hardtail scale at 9kg with dropper the difference is too great. You are basically carrying extra weight and only getting 60mm of rear travel. Despite all this, I bet this isn't the reason Neff didn't win this season, she could win on a beater at the best of her form.


I think if a racer is forced to race with equipment he/she isn't happy with, it would be more detrimental than merely the technical disadvantage.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Did Neff sign for one, two or ?? years w Trek? 

I know nothing about their team but I just don’t get their product strategy. The new Top Fuel is not a pure xc race machine. More like the ‘16 Fuel EX. A friend of mine has the loaded version and it’s well over 26 lbs. That’s piggy compared to the Scott Spark. 

And I honestly don’t get the appeal of the Supercaliber. My 100 mm SC Blur with dropper and pedals weighs over a pound less at 21.8. Who wants a heavier bike with less suspension?

I know it’s not all about weight but still...could it possibly be that the most observable and public thing Neff changed — team and bike — correlates with her completely winless season?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Yeah and it like the whole team have just gone totally backwards, Neff, Batty, Cooper. You wouldn't think it's the bike... but


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## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

Do functioning human beings actually believe it's the bike? Man, people really believe marketing BS. I'm literally stunned.

Nearly all the major brand XC bikes are of high quality. The differences are minuscule. Repeat MINUSCULE. The correct tire choice and having the option of the appropriate tire for the course would have a far greater effect. Being forced onto certain brands etc, could make it difficult for riders on new teams.

Still, the results people are speaking of are 100% athlete related. 

People think Trek's bike had anything to do with Jolanda's starting issue? Are you high? The math on those 300g, over just ten minutes of racing on a low altitude gain race track. One could barely measure it.

To quote a douche bag, 'it's not about the bike'

It's nearly entirely the rider at this level. Call it 99.5 percent.

Neff for example, has an unusual issue, she clearly does not know how to solve it. Two years ago she started hard and held a fast pace till the finish. Job done. Now she often starts fast, blows up and struggles back to an okay result, for her.

What's causing it? It could literally be one of a billion things. Training, diet, aging, who knows. What's certain, is she definitely didn't throttle back her starts to anticipate the problem. If anything, she started even harder. Her short track start at Snowshoe was almost idiotic. Every second you sprint at full neuromuscular effort is a match burned. Why on Earth she doesn't just settle into 4th or 5th wheel and let the race come to her, I cannot explain. If she has a coach, she is either not listening to him/her, or they need to be shot.

The discussion on team coaching is very on point. Could you possibly imagine Jolanda repeatedly starting like that if she was managed by Inneos? Someone would help. Someone would have run race start simulations and mapped her ideal effort on each course. Jolanda is also very very susceptible to heat. That often plays a significant part, especially with hard starts at warm races. Maybe she needs more targeted heat adaptation prior to most races?

Anton's results. Get a grip, he spelled out all the various issues on social media. He's constantly struggling with sickness. Is it his fault? Could be. Is his training wrong. Could be. One thing it definitely isn't... his freaking bike! 

Emily. Where to even start. She tried some new things. Messed with her diet. Got burnt out. Ran out of time to recover. NOT THE BIKE.

I have no idea how good or bad the new Trek is. I haven't ridden it. People who have, all say it's good, about the SAME as any other XC rig. So most likely, it's making %$#^ all of a difference.

What the Trek team could certainly do to help is triple down on the coaching/exercise scientists. All three of their riders need far better support in this area.

All the additional support Scott has given Kate has reaped rewards. That is the blueprint for success.

Yes, focus on every marginal detail, but first and foremost, focus on the athlete. Those aren't marginal gains, they are majority gains.

Yolanda, if I recall correctly was being coached by her dad for a while. I'd question that immediately. Who is the best MTB sport specific exercise physiologist in the world? I'd be finding out and hiring them to oversea my riders... just some thoughts.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Na, clearly, its the bike. If they'd have stayed with the red, there'd be no issue, an't believe they went for fast red , to slow pale blue, everyone knows pale blue is 3.6% slower than regular blue, which is again 1.7% slower than red.


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

ccm said:


> looks like Pepi's tire noodles saved the day for Nino


I liked how he was super low key when pointing to his tire, definitely didn't want HA catching wind of it.

I've wondered for a while and maybe someone might know, would tubular glue on the tire bead help in those flat situations and also with burping? Maybe a Scott secret??....


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

TwincamRob said:


> I liked how he was super low key when pointing to his tire, definitely didn't want HA catching wind of it.
> 
> I've wondered for a while and maybe someone might know, would tubular glue on the tire bead help in those flat situations and also with burping? Maybe a Scott secret??....


If you watch it looks like Avancini taps Nino ging down the finishing straight either telling him hes got a flat, or saying "sorry bout ya luck" Either way Avancini knew he had an issue.

A lot of the DH guys glue their tyres to the rims. It wouldnt surprise me if its done in XC.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Ketzal said:


> Do functioning human beings actually believe it's the bike? Man, people really believe marketing BS. I'm literally stunned.
> 
> Nearly all the major brand XC bikes are of high quality. The differences are minuscule. Repeat MINUSCULE. The correct tire choice and having the option of the appropriate tire for the course would have a far greater effect. Being forced onto certain brands etc, could make it difficult for riders on new teams.
> 
> ...


So let me understand what's going on here. It could literally be a billion things, but one thing we can say for sure without a doubt is that it's not the bike? Is that where this post is going?


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## Udyr (Jul 29, 2013)

I would think that confidence in one's equipment would play a massive role in how well you race, especially on a subconscious level.

We've all owned bikes that we don't jive with and how long do they stay in the garage? Usually not very long. 

Having to ride a bike you don't love? That doesn't perform the way you want even after lots of changes and work with the mechanics? When you are required to push 100% in every moment? 

Just look at F1 and the drivers. If something is off with the car, the drivers talk about how it messes with their confidence and their driving and their results. 

Why would it not be the same for XC?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

WRXJIM said:


> If you watch it looks like Avancini taps Nino ging down the finishing straight either telling him hes got a flat, or saying "sorry bout ya luck" Either way Avancini knew he had an issue.
> 
> A lot of the DH guys glue their tyres to the rims. It wouldnt surprise me if its done in XC.


I saw him point to it when they both came out of the rock drop section, though avacini was still exiting the rocks. This was a bit before the announcement, but I haven't seen the Tv telecast yet to see when they picked up on it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

I would like to see Avancini and Nino hug it out. I suspect it's more Avancini still having a beef after Cape Epic but they are both great racers who hopefully can not only have lots of mutual respect but at least be civil. Perhaps this tap was a gesture of good will. Who knows what else is said in the heat of battle so this is pure speculation and I reserve the right to be wrong ;-)


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

trmn8er said:


> I suspect it's more Avancini still having a beef after Cape Epic


Didn't Nino chop him pretty hard in the first lap or two?


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

TwincamRob said:


> Didn't Nino chop him pretty hard in the first lap or two?


He may have I did not see the whole thing. I takes two to tango as they say...


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

I too agree that if the bike doesnt feel "right" it can mess with your head.
Jolanda dominated on the descents last year, literally dominated. Would drop everybody by significant margins. That hasnt happened at all this year. We also know for fact that Anton ALWAYS preferred the HT over the TF historically. So much so he was in a solid 2nd on the HT at Snt Anne last year before coming off. 
I agree that there is obviously a myriad of elements causing the Trek team problems, and it is absolutely possible that the bike can be a significant element.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I think people are putting far too much on the importance of a bike. When the guys are trying to decide between HT or FS they talk about a couple of bike lengths over descents. The difference between a 60mm travel FS and a 100mm FS would be incredibly small.

The new Trek is an interesting bike, one that I think is worth trying before judging. Easy to judge negatively because it is a short travel medium weight XC bike. But if those two things were compromised for stiffness it might be worth it.

It is easy to look at the season that the Trek team had and ask "what is wrong". But perhaps nothing is wrong. All of those riders, Jolanda, Emily, and Anton have been at it for a long time. Over time riders change; they age, their support system changes, their focus changes, the competition changes. It is very difficult to stay at the top.

Over the past couple of years I have become interested in the life span of racers. The vast majority only have one or two years where they are great, only a handful have 3-5 years, and Nino has a decade.


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## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

I think you're on to something LMN. Just based on my own experience MTB racing. I race XCO distances, or shorter! There's zero chance I could improve year on year over a sustained period. I had my best year in my 2nd year. It's since gone downhill. Even though I've done very similar training etc. Interestingly, my road racing has steadily improved, as has power. For me, it definitely seems to be a problem with the extreme intensity required for XCO success. I was only able physically and mentally to train at the intensity required to win races for two years. Obviously, younger pros are different, but by the time they reach WC races they have very significant wear and tear. I'd guess that greater focus on very careful use of actual race intensity could prolong a racers career. It could go as far as significantly reducing racing volume for anything but WC events and possibly single lead in races. So just 16 or so races a year. Provided you could gather the daft UCI points required. That's still 7 significant fitness peaks with micro tapers and all the high intensity training required. It's 16 weeks of heavy strain. Plus the hypothetical required base, build and specialty training. That's probably ample intensity volume. However, that's many times less than what some racers are doing. It's definitely something to at least consider long term. As to how Nino has performed so well over such a long period... we'll probably learn in years to come that he's actually a cyborg.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

LMN said:


> I think people are putting far too much on the importance of a bike. When the guys are trying to decide between HT or FS they talk about a couple of bike lengths over descents. The difference between a 60mm travel FS and a 100mm FS would be incredibly small.
> 
> The new Trek is an interesting bike, one that I think is worth trying before judging. Easy to judge negatively because it is a short travel medium weight XC bike. But if those two things were compromised for stiffness it might be worth it.
> 
> ...


Just seems awfully coincidental that all 3 Trek Factory riders had extremely poor seasons by their standards. And Cooper and Neff are still very young.
I think Udyr has a point. Equipment that are you not 100% happy with can have a detrimental effect.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

All Specialized team riders also had bad year, does that mean Epic is also a bad bike ?


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## hesitationpoint (Aug 11, 2017)

I'm not going to say it's the bike. But I'm also not going to say it isn't the bike. While a bike won't turn a mid pack finisher into a winner, it could mean the difference between a position here or there at the world cup level where you can't afford to give away to much inefficiency. Neff has had a few close calls and sometimes by seconds. That is certainly a margin that can be attributable to bike differences or even bike setup. We already know this bike is giving up travel without getting back a weight reduction. So it had better be much better in other areas and so far there isn't tangible evidence of that. 

But to be fair, it seems that the move to trek also means she has to use other trek equipment. So one can also ask whether it's the XR tires or that big bulky wavecel helmet she has to wear that is both heavy and doesn't look that aero.


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## hesitationpoint (Aug 11, 2017)

Raikzz said:


> All Specialized team riders also had bad year, does that mean Epic is also a bad bike ?


The Epic has won a world cup and a short track this year.

Not saying it was all because of the bike but your implication is a bit misleading.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

I will say this. Equipment can be a funny thing. Sometimes I gets in your head and convinces you that "you can't" in some way. Other times you adapt and move on. I was racing my Singlespeed last year and my fork blew. Entire damper leg failed and on every compression it puked fluid everywhere. It was a 2 lap race and just past the mid point for lap 1 most of the way through the really rocky section. I was in the lead with gap and had no desire to even stop. I just rode on finished the lap and did my 2nd lap. While it was clear something was wrong I figured if the fork held air I would keep riding. I did so I did. I backed off maybe tiny bit? In the end I increased my gap and won my class. Of course did I ride the bike again before I fixed it? Heck no. It might impact my performance.. Huh? Makes no sense since I did most of the race with a farked up fork, but won't ride again till I fix it? In end while I am sure performance was impacted in the middle of race I just rode on did not let it stop me. But I would never expect that next time out and low and behold next race with a different fork, but one that was working fine, I got only 2nd place. Was it the fork (not as good as old one) or that I got beat? Probably that I got beat, but it is easy to let stuff get in your head. Any top level pro can internalize this, but also top pros can let a little bad luck get stuck in their minds convincing them that is something external that is impacting results. 

For another race I had to replace my light carbon rear wheel with a cheap heavy aluminium back up wheel just before a race. It got in my head about the "heavy slow" rear wheel, but I really could not feel it different on the bike. Easy to blame performance on that wheel, but tried hard to tune it out. That race was new to me so I had no basis to compare, but it still so easy to blame "gear".


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Raikzz said:


> All Specialized team riders also had bad year, does that mean Epic is also a bad bike ?


I didn't like it :lol:


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

madfella said:


> Just seems awfully coincidental that all 3 Trek Factory riders had extremely poor seasons by their standards. And Cooper and Neff are still very young.
> I think Udyr has a point. Equipment that are you not 100% happy with can have a detrimental effect.


First of all to say that Neff had a poor season is a real stretch. She was after all 2nd overall on the series and did manage to win a short track. Yes, she didn't get any World Cup XCO wins but she was in the battle for wins. It is unrealistic to think that even a rider like her is going to win every season. In the last 12 years there are only three riders who have won world cups 5 season in a row, and only one who has done it six in a row.

Cooper has always had issues with consistency. I know that maintaining health is a challenge for him, and consequently will always be inconsistent. I also think it extremely difficult for an athlete from Australia or New Zealand to perform year after year.

I also think there are some assumptions being made about the new bike that are not based in reality. We don't know how the riders feel about the new bike, I am pretty sure none of us have actually ridden the bike. What I do know is the when compared to the new XC bikes the old Trek Fuel was a very dated bike. Yet, Emily rode it to 3rd at WC on a course which did not suit her at all.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Sidewalk said:


> I didn't like it :lol:


Did you win any world cup races on it? If not must have been the bike.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Equipment aside, I’m more curious about the team angle: training differences, race strategies, prep, the “system” as they say in US football. Wish we had an inside angle to Trek. Kate has been quite open about all that re Scott SRAM...to wit, her recent interview on the Velonews podcast a couple days ago. Fairly enlightening on several angles.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

MattMay said:


> Equipment aside, I'm more curious about the team angle: training differences, race strategies, prep, the "system" as they say in US football. Wish we had an inside angle to Trek. Kate has been quite open about all that re Scott SRAM...to wit, her recent interview on the Velonews podcast a couple days ago. Fairly enlightening on several angles.


That's what I was referring to when I posted my initial curiosity on the matter. More or less the "environment" of the team and the amount of say they have in the athletes preparation.


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

MattMay said:


> Equipment aside, I'm more curious about the team angle: training differences, race strategies, prep, the "system" as they say in US football. Wish we had an inside angle to Trek. Kate has been quite open about all that re Scott SRAM...to wit, her recent interview on the Velonews podcast a couple days ago. Fairly enlightening on several angles.


Can you elaborate on what Kate said?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

MattMay said:


> Equipment aside, I'm more curious about the team angle: training differences, race strategies, prep, the "system" as they say in US football. Wish we had an inside angle to Trek. Kate has been quite open about all that re Scott SRAM...to wit, her recent interview on the Velonews podcast a couple days ago. Fairly enlightening on several angles.


Most teams only provide the financial resources to the riders. They provide salary, equipment, and logistics. Good teams also have an experienced soigneur or former racers who when they speak you listen to. But very few teams actually have a coach on their team. Even Kate has a private coach, Jim Millar, who primarily overseer of her training and preperation.

The team with probably the most support built in is actually the Cannondale team. They have a very experienced coach who works with most of the team on staff.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Still believe a lot of the racers tried to many things. Both to reach next level or to just try new things a year before Olympics.

Neff mixing in maybe to much road and cx to find the last % of edge.

Annika doing Road and Cape Epic. And so on for other riders. Especially since the women's have so competitive and small margins in the field you need to be on top form.

The bike? Nahh all high-end bikes are good enough. Even the china-frame ones some of the riders are using.


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

plupp said:


> Neff mixing in maybe to much road and cx to find the last % of edge.


I find this to be a bit of revisionist history. The evidence seems to point to Neff being sick in the week leading up to the races and then compounding that issue with the bizarre decision to go flat out on the first laps of both the XCC and XCO. If Neff turns in her average 2019 performance or even slightly worse given that she's sick, she bags the overall title. One could argue that her training and racing regime led to her illness, but you could also argue that the jet lag or the West Virginia cuisine did as well.

On the jet lag note, seeing PFP's complaints about jet lag on IG highlights the distinct advantage that European based riders hold in a series that's located 75% in their time zone and doesn't require trans-Atlantic travel.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

GiddyHitch said:


> and then compounding that issue with the bizarre decision to go flat out on the first laps of both the XCC and XCO.


I admit I wasn't following every single women race all that close, but I had feeling, she was basically doing this all season long. Maybe not all season long, but long/often enough that I said to myself "what there's no coach anywhere who would tell her to stop this ****??". Pretty much every race I saw, was she going flat out for first lap or two, and then died, dropping far back, finding herself again and starting to climb back up. I understand you do this once, maybe twice, but dammit you see even yourself after that, you are doing something completely wrong and it just doesn't work. But no, let's go for another race and do exactly same. If racer herself doesn't do any analysis after the race, I believe at least top teams, which Trek should be, have someone to point her to this, or?
It's sort of similar with Avancini, but for him I actually understand. At least from watching these races on tv, and from my own experience, even though in xc skiing, I actually understand need to ride on front. This way you set tempo that fits you, and for him it didn't work all the way to finish, but still worked relatively ok. Neff on other side is not that. She didn't ride to set tempo that fits her, but simply went flat out... every single time. Or at least it looked so for me.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

But she rode races like in that fashion previews seasons, and it worked. So, she is probably using the same approach, but blows up, as form is not on last seasons level.

It is difficult to spring out of what worked for you before, while you might not be on same level.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Could be, but I guess you change your strategy once you see it doesn't work.... for 6 or 7 WC races in a row  Or obviously you keep going same way hoping you might be one day in exact same form as you were several years ago, and you can win race in same style. It's an option, but it's very very long shot to work again this way.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> What I do know is the when compared to the new XC bikes the old Trek Fuel was a very dated bike. Yet, Emily rode it to 3rd at WC on a course which did not suit her at all.


Why did you feel it was dated, because of the geometry?


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

As LMN said many years ago, sometimes the best thing that can happen to amateurs/recreational racers is a bottleneck at the beginning, as it forces you to go the pace you can sustain. 

Giving amateurs/recreational racers advice to Neff is not at all a polite thing to do


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Goran_injo said:


> Giving amateurs/recreational racers advice to Neff is not at all a polite thing to do


Today I'm not considering myself even amateur/recreational racer, as I quit racing, when I finished my pro racing career (not in mtb). After that I put start bib on exactly twice, both times for charity race. But even though I was never World Champion (and most of coaches in any sport weren't either), I spend many years in top level pro sport racing (and after that not so many being serviceman and later coach), that I still know a thing or two about training and racing on highest level, even if it's not mtb, but it's relatively similar sport, just different time of the year and different equipment  And when years pass by, and you look all that from a bit different perspective then you were, when you were racing yourself being 25 years old kid, it happens quite often when I say to my self "damn if I would know this at time I was racing". That's one of reason why you still need coach, even when you are 25 and technical side of training is perfectly clear to you. So maybe it's not polite, but I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong, even if in my pro racing career was never World Champion.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Racers tend to default to the tactics that they have had success with. Neff has collected a huge number of wins by going hard from the gun and forcing everyone match her effort. How many times in the past have we seen her take 30s in the first lap and then hold that gap the end?

If you look at the riders with a lot of WC wins (double digits), all of them start really fast and force the field to defend. The whole idea of a really hard start is to seize control of the race and convince the other racers that they are racing for 2nd on the day. Dominant riders just about always race this way. But at some point their dominance fades and other riders know that they just need to follow and then attack.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

primoz said:


> I admit I wasn't following every single women race all that close, but I had feeling, she was basically doing this all season long. Maybe not all season long, but long/often enough that I said to myself "what there's no coach anywhere who would tell her to stop this ****??". Pretty much every race I saw, was she going flat out for first lap or two, and then died, dropping far back, finding herself again and starting to climb back up. I understand you do this once, maybe twice, but dammit you see even yourself after that, you are doing something completely wrong and it just doesn't work. But no, let's go for another race and do exactly same.


Actually, she did the opposite of that in the early season. Then probably did do the analysis and went far on the opposite way. The problem was, Kate was in top form for the early season and untouchable. Then you had three other women Really get stronger and stronger (Jenny, and Pauline, etc). In my opinion Terpstra and Jolanda remained strong throughout the season and others had much larger peaks and valleys. She was also most likely sick last week, so cut her some slack.

This season was far more complex than the two horse race it was last year between her and Langvad.

Oh yes, That bike is probably annoying, and the tires suck in the wet.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Neff had a hard time at the last world cup for sure. But it does seem like she was under the weather. Not sure why, but that can take it out of you. She probably felt strong at the start and then it hit her. It happens. I was very sick for a race and went really strong for 2 minutes then fell apart. It happens. The say championships are not won on your best day, but on your worst day. Neff was pretty consistent this year right up to the last race. KC was more up and down, but her ups where enough. Neither racer finished the season at their personal peaks, but it is hard to peak all year. Both should at a look at the season and work on tweaks for 2020. If they want to peak at the Olympics they need to start planning now to ensure their best chance of that.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

GiddyHitch said:


> Can you elaborate on what Kate said?


You can listen to it here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/velonews-podcasts/id1151541159?i=1000449407939

Or https://www.velonews.com/2019/09/po...ction-and-pro-cyclings-generation-next_500577

The interview starts at about the 44 minute mark. My takeaway is that Scott SRAM is very involved developmentally and strategically, at least according to her.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

hesitationpoint said:


> The Epic has won a world cup and a short track this year.
> 
> Not saying it was all because of the bike but your implication is a bit misleading.


Both by the same person...


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## hesitationpoint (Aug 11, 2017)

carlostruco said:


> Both by the same person...


And your point is......?


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## hesitationpoint (Aug 11, 2017)

Looking at Neff's WC history, her 2019 year seems fairly typical for her if you remove 2018 which was an exceptional year. The only difference is that she didn't bag any wins but she was right there in the fight several times. Also, the consistency looks a lot like the years 2014-2017. Snowshoe can be excused for obvious reasons 

It just doesn't seem like there is much of a drop off and certainly little evidence of the beginning of a physical decline.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

hesitationpoint said:


> And your point is......?


None...just saying...


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

LMN said:


> First of all to say that Neff had a poor season is a real stretch. She was after all 2nd overall on the series and did manage to win a short track. Yes, she didn't get any World Cup XCO wins but she was in the battle for wins. It is unrealistic to think that even a rider like her is going to win every season. In the last 12 years there are only three riders who have won world cups 5 season in a row, and only one who has done it six in a row.
> 
> Cooper has always had issues with consistency. I know that maintaining health is a challenge for him, and consequently will always be inconsistent. I also think it extremely difficult for an athlete from Australia or New Zealand to perform year after year.
> 
> I also think there are some assumptions being made about the new bike that are not based in reality. We don't know how the riders feel about the new bike, I am pretty sure none of us have actually ridden the bike. What I do know is the when compared to the new XC bikes the old Trek Fuel was a very dated bike. Yet, Emily rode it to 3rd at WC on a course which did not suit her at all.


I'm not sure that it is unrealistic to expect Jolanda Neff to win every season. She won a couple of World Cups in 2018 as well as the overall. World Champion 2017. A number of wins in 2016 including Marathon World Champ. I think most of us, at the start of the 2019 season, would have picked Neff to win at least one WC.

About the bike, yes you are correct most of us have not ridden it. All we can do is speculate given the information on hand. But in some regards we actually do know how the riders feel about the bike. We know that Emily elected not to ride it in the World Champs. (And her result is notable).

There are indeed many factors that contribute to the success of an athletes season. I am not saying that the actual equipment is solely responsible for TFR's poor showing, but moreso, as UDYR mentioned, the mental affect of having to race a bike that you are not convinced about. (Especially if it the bike has a small tarpaulin on it!).

As an aside, it's really hard for a consumer to buy a new bike these days. Publications are not reliable as they can never write a poor review for fear of advertisiing revenue/product reviews being slashed. It leaves us buyers with little real unbiased knowledge. In our sport, marketing becomes king with performance a distant second. But wait, there is not such thing as a "bad" bike, right? Well maybe not compared to 5 years ago, but compared to current bikes I believe yes there is. For its intended purpose, does the Trek Supercaliber fall into this category? Only time will tell, but as for now I think some early signs point towards it being a distinct possibility.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Neff got beat, plain and simple....would Schurter have won a single race if Van Der Poel raced the whole schedule? Imagine the discussion if that were the case.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Neff 2019 season was great in my opinion, sure no wins, but the performance she put was remarkable, leaving snowshoe as an exception. Honestly, I'm quite impressed by her consistency, she reminds me of Pendrel, who was at the top of the field for many years. 

For example, Pendrel wasn't as dominant as Nino was, but still she had a terrific run over the years and still can hit a top 10. Neff really looks that way to me, you can count on her being a front runner in 5, maybe even 10 years perhaps. Can you say that about the other riders? Not really, I mean maybe, but we will have to see, they seem to break in some way before achieving it. 

The one thing I find different from Neff this season is that she was riding every race (including short tracks), I don't know if that was because of contractual reasons, but in past seasons she was quite selective of her races, if she was feeling ill she would simply not race. Perhaps she had to race snowshoe to fight for the title even though she knew she wasn't 100% percent. Let's not forget in the women field, many were struggling with the high pace, maybe she wasn't ill at all, it was simply a lack of raw power.

Snowshoe is the climbers worst nightmare, once you lose the draft advantage you would drop like a fly.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

TDLover said:


> ...
> 
> Snowshoe is the climbers worst nightmare, once you lose the draft advantage you would drop like a fly.


Probably right, but when Neff had her issues they were not draft related. Se was climbing so painfully slow for few a minutes. Groups of riders were just riding past her like she was a back marker. Painful to watch someone of her ability to just fall back like that and I can't imagine how she was feeling then. I was impressed that she was able to recover and gain a few spots back, but clearly something was wrong. She had no power for a while. I feel like it was 100% related to some illness not normal fatigue. She is too strong for that. Still this why any championship is so hard. You need to be strong, but also consistent. It really makes Nino even more amazing since he has been strong for not just 1 season, but so many seasons.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I blame Luca Shaw.:cornut:


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

RS VR6 said:


> I blame Luca Shaw.:cornut:


That, and the amount of time she spent in the US this year are bigger changes than the bike. Not to mention, SHE STILL HAD A GREAT SEASON. In line with the seasons prior to 2018.

The equation for success is so complicated, and the results so hard to quantify, that it is 100% unreasonable for us to sit here on the internet and try to diagnose a problem that might not even exist.

It was an incredibly entertaining season, and all competitors overcame setbacks along the way.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

brentos said:


> The equation for success is so complicated, and the results so hard to quantify, that it is 100% unreasonable for us to sit here on the internet and try to diagnose a problem that might not even exist.


You must be new here


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

RS VR6 said:


> I blame Luca Shaw.:cornut:


How does Neff think she's going to be able to climb with the best if she spends all her time with some downhiller? Maybe she could get Shaw an eBike so he could go climbing with her.


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## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

I'll say it again Jolanda needs to push a bigger gear. The other ladies are mashing covering more ground per revolution while she spins out. 
In past years that worked for her because no one could keep up (she and PFP used to win with 1 minute margins) but now stronger riders are leaving her behind.

But I think it's actually great because it makes every race an unknown outcome.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

If only Neff only perused these forums regularly she would be a more successful racer.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Neff has been spending time on a Trek DH bike, maybe she's planning on switching to DH racing. Or EWS. :skep: :idea: :eekster:


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

brentos said:


> The equation for success is so complicated, and the results so hard to quantify,


When riders are at the top they become the performance target. Neff has enjoyed a technical advantage or a while. The rest of field has been forced to raise their technical level.

In 2018 at MSA I watch Neff take 4 seconds per lap by riding the inside line on Beatrice. Every other girl in the field was going outside. At worlds this year nearly every girl in the top 10 rode that inside line nearly as fast and as smooth as Neff.

In the women's field particularly the riders are really good at making adjustments to counter act dominance of a rider.


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

When we watched the women's race and we saw Jolanda blowing up completely after a couple laps, it reminded my partner the times when she had diagnosed Iliac Endofibrosis (she had it in both legs unlike PFP) but she said that she could start fast and then the legs would completely blow up and then slowly recover to some pace and for long time she had no idea why. Not saying Jolanda has that, but it is not always as easy to figure out what is wrong as people think, it took PFP several years to figure out what was wrong.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Pretty good interview from Batty here, turns out she was just lonely and burnt out. Maybe we can tone down the unsubstantiated speculation here?

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/interview-emily-batty-on-loneliness-funding-and-the-2020-olympics.html


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## stacers (Oct 29, 2012)

cal_len1 said:


> Pretty good interview from Batty here, turns out she was just lonely and burnt out. Maybe we can tone down the unsubstantiated speculation here?
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/interview-emily-batty-on-loneliness-funding-and-the-2020-olympics.html


Batty received a lot of backlash in the comments about the govt funding issue she mentions in that article, but I applaud her honesty and appreciate her putting it all out there. I like that the women are more likely to discuss the real ins and outs of being professional athletes, and don't just sugarcoat everything.

Along those lines, this is a also a great article about Lea Davison. She openly discusses team dynamics and how that affected her racing the past few years, it's pretty interesting - everything from bike fit, to pressure to win, to scheduling. https://cyclingtips.com/2019/08/at-mountain-bike-worlds-one-riders-shot-at-redemption/


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

teleken said:


> I'll say it again Jolanda needs to push a bigger gear. The other ladies are mashing covering more ground per revolution while she spins out.
> In past years that worked for her because no one could keep up (she and PFP used to win with 1 minute margins) but now stronger riders are leaving her behind.
> 
> But I think it's actually great because it makes every race an unknown outcome.


Yeah, She would probably be better off on a Single speed hardtail that wasn't made by Trek.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

stacers said:


> Batty received a lot of backlash in the comments about the govt funding issue she mentions in that article, but I applaud her honesty and appreciate her putting it all out there. I like that the women are more likely to discuss the real ins and outs of being professional athletes, and don't just sugarcoat everything. [/url]


Maybe LMN or someone else in that environment can shed some light on this, but it feels like there's probably more to that story we don't have. I can't say I blame her for taking advantage of funding that is there. It's a whole other discussion on whether the system needs reformed. But yes, it's super refreshing to have athletes tell like it is.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

cal_len1 said:


> Maybe LMN or someone else in that environment can shed some light on this, but it feels like there's probably more to that story we don't have. I can't say I blame her for taking advantage of funding that is there. It's a whole other discussion on whether the system needs reformed. But yes, it's super refreshing to have athletes tell like it is.


I think Batty's backlash was deserved in my opinion. I don't know all the details, but from what I read her carding money which was somewhere around $24000 per year was taken away last year because she didn't meet the criteria for receiving it. Specifically, she was making more than $90,000 in income and she didn't comply with the criteria anymore.

As far as I know this carding money exists to support struggling young promises, which Batty isn't anymore, if I'm not mistaken it also exist to support senior athletes who do well as far as they meet the criteria, in this case the Canadian government decided that someone making more than the median income didn't require this funding.

Also I read, don't quote me on this, Pendrel let her funding go quite a while ago to give a chance to young ones as she was doing well by herself.

So the backlash on Batty comes from her complaining about her funding program being taken away for political reasons, to quote her:



> "There's a lot of political background to it. All my Canada government funding was pulled when they implemented a new government testing thing."


 that political background being the income bracket criteria. She then blamed her lack of money or extra funding I should say as the reason her husband couldn't come with her to all the training grounds during the year.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Jolanda Neff is on the start list for this weekends cyclocross World Cup.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

TDLover said:


> I think Batty's backlash was deserved in my opinion. I don't know all the details, but from what I read her carding money which was somewhere around $24000 per year was taken away last year because she didn't meet the criteria for receiving it. Specifically, she was making more than $90,000 in income and she didn't comply with the criteria anymore.
> 
> As far as I know this carding money exists to support struggling young promises, which Batty isn't anymore, if I'm not mistaken it also exist to support senior athletes who do well as far as they meet the criteria, in this case the Canadian government decided that someone making more than the median income didn't require this funding.
> 
> ...


What part of this warrants the backlash in your opinion?


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

winters.benjamin said:


> What part of this warrants the backlash in your opinion?


Not being accountable for yourself, blaming others for your mistakes. Some of her Canadians fans felt insulted by her remarks and lost some respect for her, I guess that was the "backslash".


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

I'm kind of surprised to read that Batty has only now gone above the income threshold for receiving these "carding" funds from the Canadian government. Did I read somewhere that the cutoff is $90k a year? I guess she hasn't actually won the big races, but she's been near the front for many years and has a large fanbase. And she made less than $90k all these years? Interesting insight, if it's true.


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## pamoreira (Jan 6, 2016)

PlanB said:


> I'm kind of surprised to read that Batty has only now gone above the income threshold for receiving these "carding" funds from the Canadian government. Did I read somewhere that the cutoff is $90k a year? I guess she hasn't actually won the big races, but she's been near the front for many years and has a large fanbase. And she made less than $90k all these years? Interesting insight, if it's true.


Judging by the comments in PB, it's 90k after costs/expenses, which should translate to a significantly higher income.

That and the fact that these heavily sponsored athletes get a lot of compensation in kind/services, means it's not a straightforward comparison with a "normal" income.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

Train Wreck said:


> Jolanda Neff is on the start list for this weekends cyclocross World Cup.


It would be interesting to see how she performs. Those girls in cyclocross are tough.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Interestingly, Trek is streaming the race. Gotta think that's thanks to Jolanda racing it and it's in the US.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/world_cup_waterloo/livestream/


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

They always do. The WC is the premier event of the Trek CX Cup weekend. Trek had been heavily involved in CX for several years

```

```


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Jolanda won today's race. 
https://www.cxmagazine.com/report-2019-trek-cx-cup-elite-women-jolanda-neff-wisconsin
She raced several of the big series CX races last year in Europe and won the GP Sven Nys. She's good, knows what she's doing. 
I believe she raced world's and was an outside favorite to win. She didn't though. 2 years ago she and PVP were tearing it up in CX but crashed reach other out of a race with injuries


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

CBC Sports just ran a replay of the entire Elite Women's World Champs race from Mont Sainte Anne. They seemed terribly confused about the commentators, the presenter said the race was being called by Rob Warner and Bart Brentjens. It wasn't Rob Warner, but Bart was there. Then near the end they had the commentators listed in the lower left of the screen. Toby Prody? Bob Brentjens? :smilewinkgrin: Surprising they didn't write his name down as Bimpy Brentjens. I imagine they meant Toby Parodi who is a British DH racing commentator.


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## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

PlanB said:


> I'm kind of surprised to read that Batty has only now gone above the income threshold for receiving these "carding" funds from the Canadian government. Did I read somewhere that the cutoff is $90k a year? I guess she hasn't actually won the big races, but she's been near the front for many years and has a large fanbase. And she made less than $90k all these years? Interesting insight, if it's true.


It's a new thing cycling canada is calling 'income testing' as part of the carding criteria since 2018.

https://www.cyclismecanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2017-05-15-2018-CYCLING-AAP-Criteria-EN.pdf


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

rockyuphill said:


> CBC Sports just ran a replay of the entire Elite Women's World Champs race from Mont Sainte Anne. They seemed terribly confused about the commentators, the presenter said the race was being called by Rob Warner and Bart Brentjens. It wasn't Rob Warner, but Bart was there. Then near the end they had the commentators listed in the lower left of the screen. Toby Prody? Bob Brentjens? :smilewinkgrin: Surprising they didn't write his name down as Bimpy Brentjens. I imagine they meant Toby Parodi who is a British DH racing commentator.


I'm surprised no one has written about the abominable XCO Worlds coverage available in the US. The US broadcast of XCO World Champs (on NBCSN Gold) had the same duo of announcers: Bart plus that other guy. (Rob Warner apparently was only on RedBull, which was not available in the US). They were not good, but the production quality was just awful. This was a pathetic presentation for our sport. Bart could barely be heard most of the time either because his mic wasn't working or the producers had it mixed down too far. He was speaking over the entire course preview, so there were two announcers talking at once for several minutes and only a ridiculous jumble could be heard. And it did not improve from there. The producers rarely showed the leaders or anyone else on La Beatrice, and when they did the camera operators infuriatingly showed a closeup shot of the rider's midection and upper body! So you couldn't see the trail! The overall quality was a light year beneath what we've seen at every World Cup from RedBullTV. And I'm focused mainly on the camera work and terrible production (choice of shot to use), not the mediocre announcing.

This was Public Relations malpractice. Whoever was responsible - whether UCI people or TV people or some combination - should not be entrusted with this again. Someone unfamiliar with our sport would not likely be impressed with such an amateurish presentation. Seriously, who was it who screwed this up?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

Overall comment on the season: winning races doesn’t get easier, even for the best; and staying on top of the leaderboard is at least as hard as getting there in the first place. This year the biggest stunner to me was Kate’s impressive performance in the first few races. But it should be expected that different racers will peak at different times and even the best won’t be able to maintain dominant form for the full season. 

Some of us have been conditioned by Nino and Absalon before him to believe a rider can just be that dominant. But they are the rarest, most exceptional cases. The norm is more like what we saw in the women’s field this year, with a good sized group of top riders all having a shot, and making for an exciting race almost every time. Superstars like Langvad and Batty were off their best but can easily come back. How much you want to bet that if Nino had a couple injuries (like Langvad) or did his training mostly alone in a place he had come to dislike (like Batty - I would probably not like Tucson either), he would not have had another dominant season?

I think the same about Van der Poel. His career trajectory has been ballistic. Do you remember last year at Nove Mesto when Nino rode him into exhaustion and MVdP literally fell off his bike on the last lap or two trying to keep up? This year on the last lap in that race Mathieu delivered the final devastating attack. And of course we’ve seen the havoc he has wreaked on the road World Tour, to the point where he is the favorite for road Worlds next week. I don’t know how he reached this level, but it’s a safe bet that he will have to work even harder to maintain it. After all, the normal “ballistic” trajectory is to come crashing straight down after achieving soaring heights. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dwperry (Dec 8, 2013)

Jolanda Neff finishes 2nd at Waterloo CX WC, after starting 33rd and pulling back more than 30 sec on winner Katerina Nash on the last lap. Great to see Nash still winning as well.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

PFP won the World Marathon Champs.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

A VPN Plug-In for Chrome will do away with all of that and allow you to watch it on Red Bull. Basically you just set it for what country (I used Germany) you wish to appear to be from and put in the URL of the page you wish to view. You'll be in like Flynn.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

One of the two great women's XC comeback stories of the year.
Congrats to PFP. Double World Champ.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Is PFP gonna go for the world road's champ next week? Or is it just for the men?

I also wonder if Neff will race the entire cx world cup season, she missed mtb marathon worlds for the cx world cup so I guess that is a hint.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

TDLover said:


> Is PFP gonna go for the world road's champ next week? Or is it just for the men?


Road worlds is men + women, as are all the UCI world championships as far as I am aware. Seriously doubt PFP will be there though.



TDLover said:


> I also wonder if Neff will race the entire cx world cup season, she missed mtb marathon worlds for the cx world cup so I guess that is a hint.


The Waterloo world cup CX is hosted at Trek HQ. That seems self-explanatory why it would be important for her to participate, irrespective of her plans for the rest of the CX schedule.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Circlip said:


> The Waterloo world cup CX is hosted at Trek HQ. That seems self-explanatory why it would be important for her to participate, irrespective of her plans for the rest of the CX schedule.


It would make sense if she was a cx racer, but she is a mtb racer, so racing a world championship on mtb would be primordial to me. However, who knows what her contract entails.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

TDLover said:


> It would make sense if she was a cx racer, but she is a mtb racer, so racing a world championship on mtb would be primordial to me. However, who knows what her contract entails.


This year she won the GP Sven Nys, EKZ Cross and the Swiss National Road, CX and MTB titles.
6th at the CX Worlds in Feb.

She likes CX too.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Circlip said:


> Road worlds is men + women, as are all the UCI world championships as far as I am aware. Seriously doubt PFP will be there though.
> 
> The Waterloo world cup CX is hosted at Trek HQ. That seems self-explanatory why it would be important for her to participate, irrespective of her plans for the rest of the CX schedule.


Good Call.

She said several times, on her instagram that she was heading into offseason and had "one more cross race." I am assuming this was the only one in her contract and she wants/needs the break.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

It's also consistent with what she's done the last few years, as well as other top MTB racers that dabble in cross. End of MTB season overlaps with CX start, so if it is convenient then take some of that MTB late season form into some CX races and try and win some money/exposure. Then take an off season and maybe use mid/late season CX as training.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> PFP won the World Marathon Champs.


Super cool that a back-to-full-health PFP is also back to holding multiple WC jerseys at the same time! Congrats to her


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

ewarnerusa said:


> Super cool that a back-to-full-health PFP is also back to holding multiple WC jerseys at the same time! Congrats to her


What will be interesting is whether she drops into the CX scene later in the season with another run at the world champ title she formerly held.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

Who knew Nino was part of the Swiss Army? Amazing!

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/nino-...-swiss-army-after-mooning-at-white-house.html

This story is hilarious!


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

The comments are even funnier!


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Throwing shadow as a guest in other country, probably not their brightest idea.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Are you guys serious? Closed for review or indefinitely, if you guys can't keep it politics free.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

AVL-MTB said:


> Are you guys serious? Closed for review or indefinitely, if you guys can't keep it politics free.


You beat me to it.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Opening: 

Please stick to topic. We're adults here.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

People commenting in this thread need to harden up a little bit, having different opinions should not be a reason to close threads or delete comments where people invest time in. That is, as long as they don't become violent and start name calling. 

I agree on politics being left out for the sake of everyone, however many posts were not political yet were deleted as well, showing little consideration to the time and insight of the posters. After all this is a place to discuss things ("forum") and season is over, we need to argue over something, right?


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Agree on the above. It was pretty tame from what I saw. Now posts have been deleted. I guess when you have the power to censor others you can do what you want. Pretty weak to delete everyone's posts.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

We were arguing about something the 2019 World Cup Champion did whilst in country for the last round of the World Cup.
Pretty much the perfect thread for it.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

3 days to road championships. Although I follow each year, this year I will have even more incentive to watch. 

He already announced low road focus next year and preserved Tokyo XCO Olympics focus, so we should see a nice XCO season next year, Nino isn't getting any younger (and unfortunately isn't getting any more mature either , however looking at e.g. Valverde, there may be quite a few more years to be at best.


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

NordieBoy said:


> We were arguing about something the 2019 World Cup Champion did whilst in country for the last round of the World Cup.
> Pretty much the perfect thread for it.


+1

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

Goran_injo said:


> 3 days to road championships. Although I follow each year, this year I will have even more incentive to watch.
> 
> He already announced low road focus next year and preserved Tokyo XCO Olympics focus, so we should see a nice XCO season next year, Nino isn't getting any younger (and unfortunately isn't getting any more mature either , however looking at e.g. Valverde, there may be quite a few more years to be at best.


Count me in for watching roads. I wonder if Nino will change his training regimen at all to counter MVDP next year. There probably isn't much to change since he's likely at the top fractions of percentiles of his physical ability, though I'd bet he's been obsessing over why and how he lost out in those select races and trying to make a plan for next year. Esp with Tokyo probably being his last shot at another gold. Should be exciting.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

LMN is probably the best answer to this question, but just in case...

What is the best way to qualify for for a WC race like Snowshoe? I heard about a guy on the start list, which I followed up to confirm, that I can't imagine ever getting into the UCI points in the Pro XCT series, but there he is. He is listed as racing for Estonia, but lives in SoCal.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

tgoods said:


> +1
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


+2. Thought it was a respectful and reasonable discussion of a germane (but not German) incident.


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## Mamil1 (May 20, 2019)

Sidewalk said:


> LMN is probably the best answer to this question, but just in case...
> 
> What is the best way to qualify for for a WC race like Snowshoe? I heard about a guy on the start list, which I followed up to confirm, that I can't imagine ever getting into the UCI points in the Pro XCT series, but there he is. He is listed as racing for Estonia, but lives in SoCal.


Not looked into this for a while but you used to be able to race without qualifying through UCI points if you were on a UCI team. I assume national federations can do the same thing.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

trmn8er said:


> Agree on the above. It was pretty tame from what I saw. Now posts have been deleted. I guess when you have the power to censor others you can do what you want. Pretty weak to delete everyone's posts.


On one hand, mountain biking is an escape from the noise of politics and we would prefer members keep the crap separate.

On another hand. Ozzy Osborn once urinated on the Alamo (the white house of Texas and memorial to its fight for independence form Mexico) ....But I still listen to "Crazy Train."


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Mamil1 said:


> Not looked into this for a while but you used to be able to race without qualifying through UCI points if you were on a UCI team. I assume national federations can do the same thing.


I wonder if he used some sort of loophole. I can't find any race results for him in any elite races in the last year. Last elite race he did was...not good.



FJSnoozer said:


> On one hand, mountain biking is an escape from the noise of politics and we would prefer members keep the crap separate.
> 
> On another hand. Ozzy Osborn once urinated on the Alamo (the white house of Texas and memorial to its fight for independence form Mexico) ....But I still listen to "Crazy Train."


To be fair, I can't listen to The Nuge anymore...

I do prefer to keep my politics and cycling separate. But, I also like to keep my politics our of everything because as Linus once said: "There are three things I've learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin."


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Sidewalk said:


> LMN is probably the best answer to this question, but just in case...
> 
> What is the best way to qualify for for a WC race like Snowshoe? I heard about a guy on the start list, which I followed up to confirm, that I can't imagine ever getting into the UCI points in the Pro XCT series, but there he is. He is listed as racing for Estonia, but lives in SoCal.


To race a world cup there is three ways.
1. Have at least 20 UCI points.
2. Race for UCI trade team.
3. Or race for your national federation.

A lot of time for a home world cup federations will make it easy for riders to race in their jersey.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Van Der Poel doesn't win Worlds
https://www.velonews.com/2019/09/news/van-der-poel-on-worlds-bonk-i-dont-have-an-explanation_501177


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Can’t help but wonder how much MTB affected his ability to peak for that event. As much as I am a Nino fan it’s been exciting to see van der poel push the top MTB riders and win at both XCC and XCO on top of all his other cycling disciplines 


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I still don't know why he didn't just fly out to Canada, then to WV and wrap up the MTB season. Seems insane to not try to win both mtb world champs and the overall. He could have done the overall for sure. Then go and try the Road world champs. At least you'd walk away with a title for the year after all that hard work. I get resting and preparing for an event, but I also know how it can so easily go wrong.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

The race conditions looked fun?
25km shorter to avoid the REALLY deep puddles and the race heli's couldn't even fly some bits as the wind was too strong.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

When I finally got my VPN sorted this morning it was 30km to go, lead group of 5 containing MVDP. I said out loud this race is over, MVDP had got it sewn up. I was shocked when his lights went out. Tough race!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Sounds like it was a 7hr CX race...


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

MvDP race was a good one, however it was probably 10 km too long, even though it was shortened 20km or so. 

Top riders were dropping like flies during the last 2 hours of racing (151 dropped, 46 finished) and given the weather conditions it was impressive the pace everyone was pushing, brutal race, super long.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Was a spectacular bonk by Mvdp for sure.
then he came right a bit later to finish 40 something place. It's weird. Most people, when they explode, that's it for them. But VDP sometimes the bonks are just temporary.
it was like that at the xco this year too, can't remember which one.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

It was mostly flat after the climb he got dropped, that's why he finished "only" 10min behind with 43rd place, and there was 46!!!! finishers only ( 23% finished ).

I would say it's safe to say he didn't recovered from that


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

If you have seen the nature of lights out he experienced, recovered is a good term. He didn't pedal squares, he just barely pushed the lightest gear available and looked like stepping off the bike. 

Some say the cold hit him nutrition-wise, you eat based on duration/intensity and cold factor wasn't calculated. 

I am sort of happy he didn't win. I never saw him but as modest in his interviews/statements, but media demanded and created some kind of a invincible persona, hero, call it what you want.

This will take load off his shoulders for years to come, load that can bury careers in.

On general note, if Trentin worked for Moscon, we would probably have an Italian champion. Love the hindsight.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

The thing with MdVP is that he is one of those riders that go all in, risking everything if it doesn't work, but those are the kind of riders that win races. His strategy was sound, for a moment it seemed he was the one to beat at the sprint finish, but ultimately he wasn't the strongest of the day. He decided to finish the race just for the sake of finishing it, pretty much everyone who would lost a draft in the last hour would abandon as they couldn't fight for the win anymore.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> On general note, if Trentin worked for Moscon, we would probably have an Italian champion. Love the hindsight.


I don't think so, Trentin was the premier rider from that remaining group, reigning Euro champ, with a great finishing kick after a hard race. He was the logical choice for winner after MVDP was dropped, but he too was empty when it came time to sprint.
I don't like Moscon.... Way too many negatives associated with him


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Regardless of negative reputation, he did pulling for Trentin, got him in the proper place for many laps and with this ended up within seconds from the winning duo with the efforts done. 

DS had to make a decision, it was a logical one, but for this one he might be scratching his head for a long time.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

MvdP will not be at the Tokyo Olympic Test Event. Instead, he's doing some road race in Germany. This is probably (my guess) for his sponsor, Canyon, to hype the release of the new Canyon Aeroad. It has just showed up on the UCI Approved Frames list.


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## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

The team has stated that he just doesn't want to deal with the travel, which given how exhausted he must be after the worlds, i cannot blame him for.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

And MVDP is back and wins his first CX race of the season...


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

. . . and his first World Cup, from a third-row starting position.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Jolanda Neff hospitalized, crash in Pisgah. Collapsed lung, broken rib, ruptured spleen.


__
http://instagr.am/p/B6ijQGWgIkv/


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

MattMay said:


> Jolanda Neff hospitalized, crash in Pisgah. Collapsed lung, broken rib, ruptured spleen.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/B6ijQGWgIkv/


Terrible news, but I'm glad all went good for her.


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