# Manitou Mezzer: Owners Thread [Setup & Tech]



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The original Mezzer thread got enormous and despite the huge amount of good tech, it is really spread out and hard to access.

I figured that I would do my best to consolidate the tech info. Feel free to PM me any specific info and I can add it to this post.

Let's do our best to keep the discussion tech based.


*New Owner To-do List:*

Drop lowers and check semi-bath oil level
Motorex Power Synt 4t 5w40 (Link)
Supergliss [*100k*: _5 - 30C+_], [*68k*: _0 - 30C_], [*32k*: _-5 - 20C_] (Link)

Remove and grease main air and IRT pistons (Slickoleum)
Always fill IRT air first (from empty), to ensure the IRT piston is fully extended
When filling main air make sure to thread pump on until it stops. This is crucial to ensure the negative chamber is filled. With the pump still connected, you should be able to fully compress the fork without too much effort.



*User Setups and Pressure Calculator: *
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KPnh-oYncla19GutzWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit?usp=sharing​
First tab lists out user setups and comments
Second tab has calculators for main and IRT air pressures (I recommend using the CCS86 calculator)



*Official Guides:*

Service: https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...102677333/Mezzer_Pro_Expert_Service_Guide.pdf
Setup: https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...ents/360056778633/Mezzer_Pro_Set-up_Guide.pdf



*Replacement Parts:*

SKF green seals MTB37MU
Air Piston: 215 quad ring (undersized mod 214: Amazon Link)
Air Shaft: -110 o-ring
IRT Piston: 122 o-ring
IRT Shaft: -110 o-ring 



*Dougal's 1-page general purpose setup guide:*

1 Page Suspension Setup Guide - Suspension Setup - Technical | Shockcraft




*IRT Setup Guides (*Not Mezzer Specific*):*

https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...ments/360056777993/Mattoc_IRT_Setup_Guide.pdf
https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...ents/360055897974/IVA_and_IRT_Trail_Guide.pdf




*Damper Tuning:*

I would recommend starting with damping adjusters wide open, or close to it, and adding damping in as needed
MY21 forks reportedly have a lighter rebound tune
Compression stack:
8 x 17.5 x 0.1 ←[Dougal replaced with a 12mm, others remove it completely]
8 x 17.5 x 0.1
8 x 20 x 0.1

Rebound stack:
Piston
13 x 6 x 0.1
 9 x 6 x 0.1
13 x 6 x 0.1
13 x 6 x 0.1 ← Remove for MY21 tune
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
12 x 6 x 1.0




*jmvar's Tear-down Guide for Compression Shim Removal:*

Manitou Mezzer Pro Valving Change Guide.pdf



*Service info from Dougal:*
​
At 25/75/125/175 hours add 7cc bath oil to the lower legs
At 50/100/150 hours do a full lower leg oil change (15cc) and air spring clean/lube
At 200 hours do a full service (seals, foam rings, air-seals, damper oil etc).
Stated another way:​
25hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
50hr Lower Leg clean and relube with 15cc
75hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
100hr Lower Leg and Air Spring clean and relube 15cc
125hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
150hr Lower Leg and Air Spring clean and relube 15cc
175hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
200hr Full service with oil change, wiper seal & air seal change.
Go to the top and repeat.
​​​​*Other Modifications:*


In warmer climates, you can downsize the air spring quad-ring for less friction (size 214): Amazon Link


I found that on my fork, the ideal lower leg spacing was spot on for a 110mm hub *after* I removed the paint from the hub interface surfaces on the lowers. The paint is built up fairly thick here and this causes the lowers to splay a little too much. I made a 3D printed tool to carefully sand this paint down while preserving the flatness of the interface surface (and perpendicularity to the axle), which is very important to having a stiff fork assembly. PM me about the tool, maybe use a chemical to peel the paint, but use extreme caution here. [Edit: I have decked 3 other Mezzers and found that they needed a little correction to the metal as well, not just paint removal]

Before/After:​









​​

I like to put bottom-out indicators on my suspension. Label tape works really well, but plenty of other tapes could work too. Basically, you just air the fork down or leave the pump connected to the main air fitting and bounce the fork firmly to bottom-out. Then place your piece of tape so that it lines up with the top of your o-ring. Being able to accurately see how far you are from true bottom out is crucial to getting the IRT pressure dialed in. The diagonal shape of the crown to stanchion connection makes it impossible to accurately guess without a marker:






​​​*Cutaway View:*​​*







*​​​​
*Make sure to feed your Mezzer a steady diet of chunk!*


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Excellent guide.

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I'm compelled to say a huge Thank You!!!

Thanks so much for putting the effort into that excellent guide. I very much appreciate it.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I just finished burnishing the bushings on my Mezzer (which I believe is a '19 model). I have somewhere in the realm of 600-800 miles on mine, and it was already a _fantastic_ fork in my opinion.

On my particular set of lowers it seemed like the damper side lower bushing was the tightest, and the damper side upper had a single slight deformity. After one pass with a .08mm burnishing head it was sliding smooth, and a second pass all the extra stiction is gone.

I also removed the paint from the dropouts and clamped my wheel in the lowers for testing.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

ungod said:


> I just finished burnishing the bushings on my Mezzer (which I believe is a '19 model). I have somewhere in the realm of 600-800 miles on mine, and it was already a _fantastic_ fork in my opinion.
> 
> On my particular set of lowers it seemed like the damper side lower bushing was the tightest, and the damper side upper had a single slight deformity. After one pass with a .08mm burnishing head it was sliding smooth, and a second pass all the extra stiction is gone.
> 
> I also removed the paint from the dropouts and clamped my wheel in the lowers for testing.


It is worth mentioning that ungod's fork seems to be the exception here. The vast majority of user reports have good bushing fit, which if anything tends to loosen after some hard miles of riding. This was especially common in the very early production units and seems more rare now.

I don't doubt that his fork was a little tight, but I would caution anyone else to ride the fork hard for a while (like he did) before considering burnishing the bushings.

A fork loose enough to audibly knock will still perform *far* better than a fork with bushings too tight.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Excellent guide.
> 
> Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter





Curveball said:


> I'm compelled to say a huge Thank You!!!
> 
> Thanks so much for putting the effort into that excellent guide. I very much appreciate it.


Thanks guys.

I'm sure I missed something on this first pass, so definitely point out whatever you think should be in this post. I already added a couple things and expect more will follow...


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

WOW - as someone w a Mezzer yet to be installed, this is like an answer to a prayer! THANKS


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

maybe one of the forum stuff might close this thread so that this won't be a 2nd mezzer thread where everyone keeps posting random stuff and only keep the important posts here?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

reo-fahrer said:


> maybe one of the forum stuff might close this thread so that this won't be a 2nd mezzer thread where everyone keeps posting random stuff and only keep the important posts here?


As long I don't get locked out of editing the thread, I can keep putting the useful stuff in post #1. I checked a post of mine from a few months ago and was able to edit, so it looks like it will work.

Plus, technical discussion helps advance our understanding.


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Why 15cc in the lowers? Isn't it 21cc in the manual?


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> It is worth mentioning that ungod's fork seems to be the exception here. The vast majority of user reports have good bushing fit, which if anything tends to loosen after some hard miles of riding. This was especially common in the very early production units and seems more rare now.


Is that just based on user reports here, or is that something Dougal (or similar) are seeing? Mine seemed to be well fitted overall, but had a slight deformation which the burnishing fixed. I don't consider it a defect, it seems like burnishing is something that's worth doing to all forks. Someone in the burnishing thread said that the Manitou forks are some of the tightest, but that may be with their older forks. Just curious...I had considered renting out the burnishing tool or doing the work for people for low cost.



reo-fahrer said:


> maybe one of the forum stuff might close this thread so that this won't be a 2nd mezzer thread where everyone keeps posting random stuff and only keep the important posts here?


I like the idea, but keep in mind that replies are what keep the thread up at the top. As soon as people stop replying, it sinks to page 3 and everyone goes back to the original thread with useful information. I'd rather keep the thread open and move useful data into the first post as it's found.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

ungod said:


> Is that just based on user reports here, or is that something Dougal (or similar) are seeing?


Just my personal experience with two sets of lowers and user reports here, so take it for what it's worth. People are probably more likely to notice loose bushings than tight, though.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Vostok (Apr 9, 2020)

Lutsch said:


> Why 15cc in the lowers? Isn't it 21cc in the manual?


I would like to second this question. I wan't to drop the lowers on my brand new Mezzer to change the travel and also clean and change the bath oil (just as a precaution) as well as grease the IRT and air spring.

The manual states that I should also grease the air and IRT shafts - but this step is missing from the rest of guides. How much grease and where to apply it?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Lutsch said:


> Why 15cc in the lowers? Isn't it 21cc in the manual?





Vostok said:


> I would like to second this question. I wan't to drop the lowers on my brand new Mezzer to change the travel and also clean and change the bath oil (just as a precaution) as well as grease the IRT and air spring.
> 
> The manual states that I should also grease the air and IRT shafts - but this step is missing from the rest of guides. How much grease and where to apply it?


I believe the 15cc number was given before the official service guide was released. The fork would work just fine with 15cc, it's just there to splash on the damper and air spring shafts. I think they bumped it to 21cc to more comfortably hit a service interval target. In theory, more oil adds some progressiveness. But I'm not sure how much in this case. Maybe @Dougal can give us some data with his fancy new rig. 

On greasing the shafts: there isn't a prescribed amount. Just put a light coating on the entire shaft (above and below seal heads). Any excess will just get scraped off.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

CCS86 said:


> Drop lowers and check semi-bath oil level
> 
> Motorex Power Synt 4t 5w40 (5/40 Wt Semi-Bath Fork Oil)
> Supergliss 100k (68k for cold) (Supergliss Lubricating Oil 250 to 1000 cc (Motorex) | Shockcraft)


This maybe spitting hairs, but I think saying "cold" for 68k is a bit of a stretch.
I think we all have a different view on what cold is.

Maybe all temp ranges or dougal's chart?
100k: 5 to 30C+, 68k: 0 to 30C, 32k: -5 to 20C


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Fair enough. "Cold" is relative. Temps added to OP.


----------



## greyshrike (Mar 8, 2020)

Is this cassette lockring tool long enough to go over schrader valve when one is adjusting travel? I measured the internal length on mine to be 4cm.









Socket Crombie


We listened to your requests and created a socket style Crombie tool that is compatible with ratchets and torque wrenches. The Socket Crombie has our signature finger spline at the top along with a 3/8" square drive for using your favorite ratchet or torque wrench. The tool is plenty deep to...




www.abbeybiketools.com





1:39 in this travel change guide














Socket Crombie


We listened to your requests and created a socket style Crombie tool that is compatible with ratchets and torque wrenches. The Socket Crombie has our signature finger spline at the top along with a 3/8" square drive for using your favorite ratchet or torque wrench. The tool is plenty deep to...




www.abbeybiketools.com


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

On the damper side, is there a way to know or a date to look for the lighter rebound tune? Also is the consensus just to remove the second 17.5 shim or do the Dougal 12mm shim instead, I'm 150 lbs for reference. What size shaft clamp would I need?

Thanks


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> On the damper side, is there a way to know or a date to look for the lighter rebound tune? Also is the consensus just to remove the second 17.5 shim or do the Dougal 12mm shim instead, I'm 150 lbs for reference. What size shaft clamp would I need?
> 
> Thanks


You've got the "Dougal Tune" already in the fork we sent you a year ago. That's the 12mm compression stack and also got my rebound tune which is very different feel to stock.

You don't need any shaft clamps to change rebound tune. To get to the compression I think it's 16.3mm to hold the damper tube.
Manitou Clamp Block 172-31242


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Looks great.
Would you/someone else open the same thread for the Mezzer Expert? or split this guide into portions?

Thanks,
Mor


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

ForMartha said:


> Looks great.
> Would you/someone else open the same thread for the Mezzer Expert? or split this guide into portions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mor


I really don't think the Expert model needs a new thread. I can post any Expert-specific info in the OP. Most info is the same though.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> I really don't think the Expert model needs a new thread. I can post any Expert-specific info in the OP. Most info is the same though.


Okay, I would appreciate having a dedicated section when it will start getting move traction and users/shock experts real life inputs.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

Reposting here as this seems to be the new home for such questions.

I have a new Mezzer on the way and will do a travel change as soon as it arrives. I've read what the ideal oil choices are, but was wondering if either Maxima 5wt or Castrol 0w40 full synthetic (for my VW and in my Pike) would work well for bath oil? Most of my riding will be 20F-40F for the next couple months so I was thinking the Maxima as it's helped my Ribbon perform better in the cold. I'd prefer to use what I have rather than buy yet another oil, but if I have to, so be it.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lutsch said:


> Why 15cc in the lowers? Isn't it 21cc in the manual?


15cc is the standard amount. 21cc is "extended service interval" amount.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Dougal said:


> 15cc is the standard amount. 21cc is "extended service interval" amount.


So we can either do 15cc and add 7cc at 25 hours or do 21cc and then go to 50 hours for a lower service?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Air springs characterized from the other thread...
I did these based on X[0] is fully extended at 180mm travel.

Negative Spring Volume Equation
Y[cc] = 0.8081438*X[mm] + 46.93218

Positive Spring Volume Equation
Y[cc] = -0.8552981*X[mm] + 173.3587

IRT Volume Equation
Y[cc] = -0.7767529*X[mm] + 61.30490

IRT Positive Spring Volume Adder
Y[cc] = 0.7767637*X[mm]

Lower Leg (air spring side) Volume Equation
Y[cc] = -0.9966911*X[mm] + 267.4178

Travel Spacers are 2.782cc per spacer (2 required per 10mm)


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> On the damper side, is there a way to know or a date to look for the lighter rebound tune? Also is the consensus just to remove the second 17.5 shim or do the Dougal 12mm shim instead, I'm 150 lbs for reference. What size shaft clamp would I need?
> 
> Thanks


Mine is a 5/2020 dated build on the box, I've had the rebound apart, it's a my21 rebound stack.
I wouldn't mind if the HSR was faster though.

On the compression I removed the 2nd 17.5 shim as an experiment, after a dozen rides I put in other shims. I'm likely too heavy (100kg) for the lighter tune, I can see why it would benefit lighter riders.
I've since tried 2 other combinations 20,19,16 & 20,17.5,16 (current) , seems to have taken the edge off but could just be psychological.

edit: mods feel free to move this to the other messer thread


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I made some changes to the CCS86 pressure calculator. I'm not sure if someone else had edited it, but I think it was recommending pressures that were slightly too low. 

If you have used it recently, you might want to crunch the numbers again.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> I made some changes to the CCS86 pressure calculator. I'm not sure if someone else had edited it, but I think it was recommending pressures that were slightly too low.
> 
> If you have used it recently, you might want to crunch the numbers again.


Interesting. The recs definitely went up about 10% in my case.

Also, it seems like someone sorted the Rider Weight column only on the User Setups sheet.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

GiddyHitch said:


> Interesting. The recs definitely went up about 10% in my case.
> 
> Also, it seems like someone sorted the Rider Weight column only on the User Setups sheet.


Well that would really suck.

I went in there today trying to fix the PSI deviation column. While a few were spot on, many/most were wrong.

*EDIT: *Yup, unless most of the users gained/lost a bunch of weight in the last month, someone botched the spreadsheet.

Jan 6th vs Feb 9th:









*
EDIT 2:*

I restored a prior version, just before the sorting botch, redid some edits I made, and fixed a bunch of errors in the PSI deviation column. Hopefully we are back on track now. Definitely double check your own entries to make sure everything looks correct.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

CCS86 said:


> Well that would really suck.
> 
> I went in there today trying to fix the PSI deviation column. While a few were spot on, many/most were wrong.
> 
> ...


Saw your note.. made it protected with a warning if people try to edit the first few rows on that sheet. If someone screws it up again (even with the warning), I can lock those cells for good.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

jcmonty said:


> Saw your note.. made it protected with a warning if people try to edit the first few rows on that sheet. If someone screws it up again (even with the warning), I can lock those cells for good.


I also went ahead and protected all my calculation cells, and the header. Not sure it will keep people from sorting the data. I sorted everything to reduce temptation.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> I also went ahead and protected all my calculation cells, and the header. Not sure it will keep people from sorting the data. I sorted everything to reduce temptation.


Thanks for all your work, looking at the Mezzer setup sheets says to do +10 IRT for Enduro or -10 IRT for trail, have you played with that? How would that factor in with your calculator?


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Just in case anyone is messing with their shims, a quick note on how to get to the rebound shims.

You'll need to unscrew the black sealhead at the other end of the gold "tube" (see photo) from where the compression assembly sits in the bladder. Once you have that unthreaded you can pull the entire rebound assembly out and remove the retaining thingie with an allen head.

I don't have a set of 16.3mm shaft clamps (though I do have the "full set" from Barnett, the closest is a 16.7), and I didn't want to spend $110 for the Manitou set, so I used a pair of soft jaw vice inserts with a "V" in them and clamped the tube along the length of the jaws in the groove. I'm not saying it's the right way to do it, but it worked well.

Rebound shim stack photo credit @mike156


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> Thanks for all your work, looking at the Mezzer setup sheets says to do +10 IRT for Enduro or -10 IRT for trail, have you played with that? How would that factor in with your calculator?


I wouldn't worry about that. I run pressures really close to what my calculator says, and bounce back and forth between trail and more enduro riding. The setup works well in both cases.

It's really meant to be a starting point anyway. Adjust IRT so you are using nearly full travel after your biggest hits. Adjust main pressure for feel / response.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> I wouldn't worry about that. I run pressures really close to what my calculator says, and bounce back and forth between trail and more enduro riding. The setup works well in both cases.
> 
> It's really meant to be a starting point anyway. Adjust IRT so you are using nearly full travel after your biggest hits. Adjust main pressure for feel / response.


Perfect, thanks. I'm running one on my long travel bike and looking to get a second one for a new trail build I'm doing (Trance X Advanced) so won't see much on the Enduro style side of riding since I have a bike for that. At 170mm it was hard for me to use all the travel since I'm lightweight, seemed like I what's had 20-30mm left no matter what


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I know that progression in the air spring can make it hard for lighter riders to use higher travel amounts. I'm curious if running the IRT fully deflated, or even with the piston removed, could help with this.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> I know that progression in the air spring can make it hard for lighter riders to use higher travel amounts. I'm curious if running the IRT fully deflated, or even with the piston removed, could help with this.


Dougal said that going down in travel will make it less progressive so we'll see, I'm running his custom tuned damper already so just need to get the pressures dialed once I get the frame and just ordered the bushing burnishing tools for my forks so that would help also


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

I've not been 152lb since I was 18 lol



CCS86 said:


> Well that would really suck.
> 
> I went in there today trying to fix the PSI deviation column. While a few were spot on, many/most were wrong.
> 
> ...


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

For a lighter rider, I'd be pretty curious about taking out the lower leg vents and then reinstalling them with the fork partially compressed. I'm not sure how well the wiper seals would keep ambient pressure out of the lower pressure in the legs though.


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Is it common for lighter riders to not be able to get full travel on the Mezzer pro? As a lightweight (135 lbs) wanting to run one at 160 mm these last few post make me hesitant to purchase one.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I don't know if I'd be as worried at 160mm. Also, I don't think the Mezzer has any more ramp up from the lowers then a Lyrik.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ripbro said:


> Is it common for lighter riders to not be able to get full travel on the Mezzer pro? As a lightweight (135 lbs) wanting to run one at 160 mm these last few post make me hesitant to purchase one.


It is a quite progressive fork. Reducing damping (removing the second 17.5mm shim) will help a lot. The air spring is also quite progressive and that can't be easily changed.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> It is a quite progressive fork. Reducing damping (removing the second 17.5mm shim) will help a lot. The air spring is also quite progressive and that can't be easily changed.


Can you generate some rate curves with IRT functioning, and with it deflated? Maybe one with the lowers burped at full droop?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Can you generate some rate curves with IRT functioning, and with it deflated? Maybe one with the lowers burped at full droop?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I've just got a Mattoc fitted into my spring-tester. I will need to make some new mounts to fit the taller Mezzer.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Ripbro said:


> Is it common for lighter riders to not be able to get full travel on the Mezzer pro? As a lightweight (135 lbs) wanting to run one at 160 mm these last few post make me hesitant to purchase one.


I'm 155 and bottom my 180mm at slightly above recommend air pressure and 3 clicks out from open HSC. So you should bottom out when it calls for it. Just don't expect to on a tame/slow trail but I'd argue you wouldn't want bottom out then anyways.

I did notice lowers pressure build up when I ran 30cc of oil, so not I put in ~12cc on air spring side.

Bottom out...








New video by Andres Mora







photos.app.goo.gl





Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I didn't spend too much time looking at the IRT when I had it out but it seems like it probably wouldn't be too hard to put a few spacers on the bottom side to reduce the size of the chamber, if you were running the fork at a shorter length. Then again the R7 is available..


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Spring curves here.
Mezzer Pro with 40-60psi vs Mattoc Pro 40-80psi. That's 7.2 N/mm (41 lb/in) between 20-120mm. Fork was set to 160mm.








I'm starting to scare myself with how identical my own forks are graphing out. These match that Fox36 with Secus almost exactly too.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mezzer (stock) with 40/60psi vs F36 160mm with Vorsprung Secus, 60psi and 1 token.
Damn near identical.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Does the Mattoc Pro have a significantly longer IRT stroke? That Mezzer ramp up is wild.

Are these plotted at a pretty slow shaft velocity?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Does the Mattoc Pro have a significantly longer IRT stroke? That Mezzer ramp up is wild.
> 
> Are these plotted at a pretty slow shaft velocity?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Yes the Mattoc has a longer IRT chamber. Mattoc and Mezzer share stanchion length but the Mezzer has more travel and longer negative chamber.
These are plotted at the speed of an energetic glacier. It's maybe 30 seconds to compress.

I'm testing pressure combinations for lighter riders and women right now. 25/30psi is looking pretty sweet for anyone wanting 30lb/in equivalent.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

@Dougal,
For a 140nm travel, wich fork would you pick? The Mezzer or Mattoc and why? Considering techy trail riding. (rock guardens are standard here).

Thanks!


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

Hmm, would a mattoc IRT shaft fit in the mezzer( changing shafts only), or would it hit the air piston on full compression.
I wonder if the IRT piston would go too far & encounter the internal butting. 
If it did fit, would it reduce the main spring volume & make the neg spring larger by % thus make it more progressive & cancel out the benefit of the longer IRT to reduce ramp up?, or am I overthinking it.


----------



## Doubleclutch (Aug 25, 2017)

What are acceptable grease alternatives to Slickoleum? I sold my Pike, but still have an air super delux ... can I use my Rock Shox Dynamic seal grease on the Mezzer seals?


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Just thinking out loud here, this is an idea I have tossed around before but am reminded of by looking at Dougal's charts. What would the result be of replacing the seal head with a piston, similar to the IRT piston, essentially a floating seal head. Or add a piston for that purpose, and open up the seal head and turn it into more of a guide bushing. The new piston would remain in it's current position until the pressure in the lowers exceeded the negative spring pressure which seems like it would reduce the end of stroke ramp up. But I'm not sure what other effects it would have, and if there are any specific setups where it would be beneficial. Maybe longer travel/lighter riders? It's not a particularly complicated change, but it would require some new/modified components.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Mezzer (stock) with 40/60psi vs F36 160mm with Vorsprung Secus, 60psi and 1 token.
> Damn near identical.
> View attachment 1916333


Hi Dougal, anyway to run that test at 140mm and 180mm to see how travel affects the ramp up?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> Hi Dougal, anyway to run that test at 140mm and 180mm to see how travel affects the ramp up?


Not today, I've got too much on. But eventually I will and I'll post it up then.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Not today, I've got too much on. But eventually I will and I'll post it up then.


Oh that would be awesome and no hurry at all, just wondering more than anything since I'll be running one at 170 and one at 140-150 most likely. Thanks


----------



## Busta Chan (Dec 8, 2019)

Hi,
this is a great thread with lots of information about a great fork. I set up a little model in LibreOffice of the Mezzer Pro to see how the air spring curve changes with different pressures.
The idea is to compare two different settings.








I used Dougals plot of the Mezzer curve as basis for a "curve fitting" to verify that I got the size of the chambers right. Thanks @Dougal for posting this plot!
Please keep in mind, that this is a rather simple model of the fork. Feel free to modify it. If you do so, please post your version here as well.

Cheers,
BC

Edit: the model is wrapped in a zip file with txt extension to upload it here. Didn't know I can't upload ods files directly.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Busta Chan said:


> Hi,
> this is a great thread with lots of information about a great fork. I set up a little model in LibreOffice of the Mezzer Pro to see how the air spring curve changes with different pressures.
> The idea is to compare two different settings.
> View attachment 1916991
> ...


Keep in mind lower leg compression ratio is the thing that's hard to calculate. That's why to get 25% softer than 40/60psi you need 25/30psi and not 30/45psi.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Busta Chan said:


> Hi,
> this is a great thread with lots of information about a great fork. I set up a little model in LibreOffice of the Mezzer Pro to see how the air spring curve changes with different pressures.
> The idea is to compare two different settings.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this contribution, very cool!

I have been playing around with it a bit and noticed something: the charts show a bit of travel at 0 force, where in reality it is going to be some amount of force generated before any travel begins.

Looking at the calculations (I may be wrong here), it appears that you are using the same piston area for main and negative force calculations. Is that true? While the main and negative pressures are equal at 0mm stroke, the negative pressure acts on a smaller area (must subtract the area of the air spring shaft). This creates some top out force.

On that path, we could add into the calculator an "equalization point", defaulting to 0mm, and allowing you to simulate disconnecting the pump with the fork slightly into travel.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Fantastic thread - checking my damper oil level on my Mezzer Expert and it says to use the Maxima damper oil. There are two on their site - should I go w/ the 3 wt or 5 wt? I don’t ride when it’s under 40F...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I was talking to another Mezzer owner who had a conversation with Hayes about making the fork less harsh on high frequency bumps. This was the reply he received:



> The rebound assembly in Mezzer is a tunable system, unfortunately we don't offer a specific tuning kit or guide for this sort of thing as that takes a lot of time and energy we're not staffed for at the moment. The one thing you can do is quite simple though:
> 8.5x0.25
> 8.5x0.25
> 12x0.1
> ...


I find this interesting for a few reasons: there seem to be dimensional errors in both OD and thickness; looking past this, he appears to be describing the MY21 stack and removing the ring shim.

Has anyone tried this?

I recently converted to the MY21 rebound stack. I have only had one ride on it, and still ran it with the rebound adjust fully open. The bike felt good, but I need more time on familiar terrain to get a better feel.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> I was talking to another Mezzer owner who had a conversation with Hayes about making the fork less harsh on high frequency bumps. This was the reply he received:
> 
> I find this interesting for a few reasons: there seem to be dimensional errors in both OD and thickness; looking past this, he appears to be describing the MY21 stack and removing the ring shim.
> 
> ...


So how can it be compare to this what was written in the first thread?
Where can I find this 9x0.1 shim?

Compression stack:
8 x 17.5 x 0.1 ←[Dougal replaced with a 12mm, others remove it completely]
8 x 17.5 x 0.1
8 x 20 x 0.1

Rebound stack:
13 x 6 x 0.1
 9 x 6 x 0.1
13 x 6 x 0.1
13 x 6 x 0.1 ← Remove for MY21 tune
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
12 x 6 x 1.0


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Spring curves here.
> Mezzer Pro with 40-60psi vs Mattoc Pro 40-80psi. That's 7.2 N/mm (41 lb/in) between 20-120mm. Fork was set to 160mm.
> View attachment 1916330


I'm assuming that spike at the end is the bottom out bumper? I'm guess that 10mm of stanchion left over when you compress the fork is 10mm of bottom out bumper?

That scaling in the rate though makes it pretty bad to look at. 0-20 and letting it run off the vertical axis would be a lot more interesting. Thank you none the less though.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Radecki said:


> So how can it be compare to this what was written in the first thread?
> Where can I find this 9x0.1 shim?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

There is not a "ring shim" on the Mezzer damper.

The face of the piston is concave, that 9mm shim actually keeps the other shims above the face shim from being preloaded. Removing that 9mm shim will actually increase damping.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Ring shim was a misnomer. 

I see how removing that shim would give an increase in damping, forcing both 13mm shims to deflect together instead of letting the first act alone for the first 0.1mm.

I guess their suggestion follows what he asked for, but I don't think he had a good understanding of what he needed. He thought cranking the LSR down would help in rough stuff, but I think it made things much worse.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Yeah, the Mezzer stack looks weird written down. Looks like a two stage stack. Not sure how much dish there actually is, but I don't think they were going for a two stage setup. It would be interesting to see dyno curves of the Mezzer damper. I'm guessing it's fairly digressive on rebound if the bleed is closed.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

ForMartha said:


> @Dougal,
> For a 140nm travel, wich fork would you pick? The Mezzer or Mattoc and why? Considering techy trail riding. (rock guardens are standard here).
> 
> Thanks!


I'm interested in this as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

irck said:


> I'm interested in this as well.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll be honest and say that the Mattoc is my pick if there was any price difference.
But the Mattoc pro and the Mezzer shares almost the same price.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

ForMartha said:


> I'll be honest and say that the Mattoc is my pick if there was any price difference.
> But the Mattoc pro and the Mezzer shares almost the same price.


Have to agree there especially if your after a trail orientated fork, also an updated mattoc has been hinted about on the forums, so a new version is probably likely, interesting to see what changes are planned.

I'm kind of torn here as I have very fond memories of my time on the mattoc pro, it's a very good fork & in certain ways I preferred it to the mezzer, although if I had the opportunity to ride them side by side they may be more similar than I remembered, so kind of hard to give a direct comparison.
I rode both at 160mm & the air setups can change the feel of each a lot.
I'm still on a mezzer, but I am contemplating getting a mattoc for my wife bike, if I do I'll certainly do a "side by side unscientific experiment" before it goes near her bike.

If your just riding a diverse variety of trails & not going down the enduro path too often, then the mattoc is hard to go past, it's a bit more versatile & for me had the more compliant feel for general trail riding.
If you want to pursue more enduro style riding especially at higher speeds & when things get steeper then the mezzer has the firmer built for purpose feel to it.

I think in either case they both are not a super plush slow speed style of fork, not the way I had them setup at least, they both needed speed to come alive.


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

I have both in the Pro version, did run them on the same bike, honestly I prefer the Mezzer.
A friend that also rode both whas drooling over the Mezzer after we swapped bikes for a run.
Don't know how the Mezzer behaves on sub 140mm, I guess you would need to tune the volumes on the 3 chambers.


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

cashews said:


> Have to agree there especially if your after a trail orientated fork, also an updated mattoc has been hinted about on the forums, so a new version is probably likely, interesting to see what changes are planned.
> (...)


If I had to guess, a sealed damper like the Mezzer, and maybe foot nuts like the Mezzer, and new lowers like the Mezzer, in short a mini-Mezzer, all the goodies less weight.
They could also go with 37mm stanchions, but completely unnecessary in my opinion.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Aglo said:


> If I had to guess, a sealed damper like the Mezzer, and maybe foot nuts like the Mezzer, and new lowers like the Mezzer, in short a mini-Mezzer, all the goodies less weight.
> They could also go with 37mm stanchions, but completely unnecessary in my opinion.


34.5mm


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

irck said:


> I'm interested in this as well.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





ForMartha said:


> I'll be honest and say that the Mattoc is my pick if there was any price difference.
> But the Mattoc pro and the Mezzer shares almost the same price.


It depends on rider size. Mrs Dougal is riding a special build Mattoc Pro (custom damper tune, custom paint, some extra internal machining) which we only got finished a month or so back. I used the Mattoc chassis for lighter weight and less progression (it has a bigger IRT chamber).
If the rider was 90kg I'd put them on a Mezzer every time.

That said I haven't ridden either fork set to 140mm. 160mm is as short as mine go.


----------



## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

When adding the 7cc top up bath oil at 25hrs, should the fork be deflated or can the air remain??
thanks


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

dtheo said:


> When adding the 7cc top up bath oil at 25hrs, should the fork be deflated or can the air remain??
> thanks


I'm pretty sure the air can remain, MAnitou actually has a decent service guide for this. I can't figure out what syringe to order, Manitou DOES NOT make this easy. Or what oil.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

afraid said:


> I'm pretty sure the air can remain, MAnitou actually has a decent service guide for this. I can't figure out what syringe to order, Manitou DOES NOT make this easy. Or what oil.


Just any basic syringe from local pharmacist/drugstore. for oil it's the same as what they use for bath oil.


----------



## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

afraid said:


> I'm pretty sure the air can remain, MAnitou actually has a decent service guide for this. I can't figure out what syringe to order, Manitou DOES NOT make this easy. Or what oil.


probably referring to syringe fittings - they are M5 and the syringe is usually a lueger lock fitting
oil mentioned at least every 3 threads - manitou sells it but it's repackaged motorex power synt 4T 5wt. Or you can use fox gold or RS0W30 and supergliss 100 which is impossible to find in the US


----------



## skulltractor (Nov 14, 2009)

I used these, Spare Hoses with M5 Fittings for Hydraulic Disc Brake Bleed Kits | eBay 
they work great


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

spo0n said:


> Just any basic syringe from local pharmacist/drugstore. for oil it's the same as what they use for bath oil.


deleted


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

dtheo said:


> probably referring to syringe fittings - they are M5 and the syringe is usually a lueger lock fitting
> oil mentioned at least every 3 threads - manitou sells it but it's repackaged motorex power synt 4T 5wt. Or you can use fox gold or RS0W30 and supergliss 100 which is impossible to find in the US


But you can't mix different oils right? I guess I'll order the Manitou stuff


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Any place to get a 37mm seal driver? I know Mike156 made his own but I Can't seem to find one online


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

A friend that printed it off had been too busy so I haven't wanted to harass him to print more. If you have access to a 3D printer, I can send the file, just message me. Then again, anybody with ability to print also probably has the ability to model to their own.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

I understand, I just don't have access to a 3D printer so that's why I'm just looking to buy one if possible, I called Manitou to see if they have one but they haven't called me back yet.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

mike156 said:


> A friend that printed it off had been too busy so I haven't wanted to harass him to print more. If you have access to a 3D printer, I can send the file, just message me. Then again, anybody with ability to print also probably has the ability to model to their own.


I would be interested in the file if you can share. Or if it's up on Thingiverse


----------



## Qualms (Apr 6, 2021)

Hello, new mezzer owner here.. im stuck on the setup, the problem i have is that the irt valve cao is unremovable (from new) its super super super tight and removing the valve cap by hands or with tools has proven fruitless. Has anybidy else had this problom? Hayes referred me to a warramty/service centre, but an easy fix or trick would be waaay more satisfy


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

Qualms said:


> Hello, new mezzer owner here.. im stuck on the setup, the problem i have is that the irt valve cao is unremovable (from new) its super super super tight and removing the valve cap by hands or with tools has proven fruitless. Has anybidy else had this problom? Hayes referred me to a warramty/service centre, but an easy fix or trick would be waaay more satisfy


Can you put an ice brick on the irt cap for 5 mins to try & cool it down a bit to shrink it, then use a wood dowel on the raised parts (finger holds) & tap the dowel with a hammer sharply in an anti clockwise direction. repeat with some penetrating oil etc if it doesn't work.
I've noticed mine is harder to remove if I remove all the main air, possible pressure differential thing or could just be coincidence from air temperature at the time.


----------



## Qualms (Apr 6, 2021)

cashews said:


> Can you put an ice brick on the irt cap for 5 mins to try & cool it down a bit to shrink it, then use a wood dowel on the raised parts (finger holds) & tap the dowel with a hammer sharply in an anti clockwise direction. repeat with some penetrating oil etc if it doesn't work.
> I've noticed mine is harder to remove if I remove all the main air, possible pressure differential thing or could just be coincidence from air temperature at the time.


Thanks for the advice. No joy though, i pressed a handful of snow onto it untill it pretty much all melted, then i smashed a couple of dowels to pieces without it budging. I also try using the handle from a hammer and smashed that up too.. all on my brand new fork.

I will try to oil it up, but i honestly cant see where i would oil it, its fixed so tight theres no visible gap for the oil to work its way into.i can see myself just ending uo with the same problem but greasier


----------



## Qualms (Apr 6, 2021)

Qualms said:


> Thanks for the advice. No joy though, i pressed a handful of snow onto it untill it pretty much all melted, then i smashed a couple of dowels to pieces without it budging. I also try using the handle from a hammer and smashed that up too.. all on my brand new fork.
> 
> I will try to oil it up, but i honestly cant see where i would oil it, its fixed so tight theres no visible gap for the oil to work its way into.i can see myself just ending uo with the same problem but greasier


Oiled up the cap with silikon spray, repeated cooling/tapping/unscrewing process, mineral oil, repeated, wd 40, repeated.

I guess its going back to hayes, because that cap may as well be glued on its so tight.

I also attempted to remove the whole cap with a 24mm socket, 25nm is written on it but I couldnt undo that either. The 50nm's on my crankset took way less strength to untighten


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I mean, right tighty, lefty losey... Right???

You don't want to try and take off the IRT while it's pressurized though. It would probably leak air out slowly, but could also fly off abruptly.


----------



## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

Qualms said:


> Oiled up the cap with silikon spray, repeated cooling/tapping/unscrewing process, mineral oil, repeated, wd 40, repeated.
> 
> I guess its going back to hayes, because that cap may as well be glued on its so tight.
> 
> I also attempted to remove the whole cap with a 24mm socket, 25nm is written on it but I couldnt undo that either. The 50nm's on my crankset took way less strength to untighten


Mine was too tight to remove with my fingers when I first got mine. This is how I loosened mine. Try using some pliers. Put a rag over the cap first so you don't mare the cap. Put the pliers between the groves of the cap. Don't squeeze the pliers, use a lot of down force and twist the pliers.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

TerryLM said:


> This is how I loosened mine.


A like for proper spelling. 

And good advise.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

FWIW, if CCS86 ever rides in WA, I’ll buy the beer and provide guide services.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Curveball said:


> FWIW, if CCS86 ever rides in WA, I'll buy the beer and provide guide services.


I appreciate the offer! Maybe in a couple years I'll take the family on a big road trip. I have never seen the Pacific NW. That would be great.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## linclinc (Jan 10, 2019)

Can someone go through the different model / year numbers and the changes made by Manitou with each iteration of the Mezzer? I've lost track of when shims changed / bushings were fixed / creaks were addressed. Would really help as I'm looking to pick up a set second hand.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

linclinc said:


> Can someone go through the different model / year numbers and the changes made by Manitou with each iteration of the Mezzer? I've lost track of when shims changed / bushings were fixed / creaks were addressed. Would really help as I'm looking to pick up a set second hand.


i think bleed ports on the lowers and seperate stickers for each letter means fixed lowers


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spo0n said:


> i think bleed ports on the lowers and seperate stickers for each letter means fixed lowers


Nah lowers were fixed immediately Like late 2019. There was just a lot of stock that got out to different corners of the planet. All 2020 build date are fixed. Separate stickers with no silver bands, bleed ports and faster rebound tune are MY21 changes.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

I saw seb from bikeradar tested the Mezzer, and complained about slow rebound, do you think he had an older tune?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

spo0n said:


> I saw seb from bikeradar tested the Mezzer, and complained about slow rebound, do you think he had an older tune?


nah, he just wants to run his rebound far too fast


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

@Dougal 
Please please how to open the Rebound without clamps?
Managed to get to compression stack with just wrenches..


----------



## Qualms (Apr 6, 2021)

TerryLM said:


> Mine was too tight to remove with my fingers when I first got mine. This is how I loosened mine. Try using some pliers. Put a rag over the cap first so you don't mare the cap. Put the pliers between the groves of the cap. Don't squeeze the pliers, use a lot of down force and twist the pliers.


Nice tip! I gave it a try, but no luck. My cap is another design to yours, you have 4 thick grooves and I have 6 thin/shallow ones. I think that is to my disadvantage.

I tried with a rag, an old leather glove and a piece of rubber, and reached a level of force with all three that i scratched up my cap each time as the material ripped.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

romulin said:


> @Dougal
> Please please how to open the Rebound without clamps?
> Managed to get to compression stack with just wrenches..


You need to take the cap off the damper tube. Then the rebound piston and shims are exposed. You may or may not need a clamp depending on which end the tube unscrews from. Clamp diameter is 16.3mm.



Qualms said:


> Nice tip! I gave it a try, but no luck. My cap is another design to yours, you have 4 thick grooves and I have 6 thin/shallow ones. I think that is to my disadvantage.
> 
> I tried with a rag, an old leather glove and a piece of rubber, and reached a level of force with all three that i scratched up my cap each time as the material ripped.


Do you have the Expert or the Pro?


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

Thanks very much! Helped allot. 

Might annoy you with next one? 
Went to assemble the damper and the bladder seems to be popping out from under the collar on one side. Is there any way i can repair this? Don't know where to even start..


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spo0n said:


> I saw seb from bikeradar tested the Mezzer, and complained about slow rebound, do you think he had an older tune?


I have no idea what he was on about there. Might have just needed a flaw to talk about.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

romulin said:


> Thanks very much! Helped allot.
> 
> Might annoy you with next one?
> Went to assemble the damper and the bladder seems to be popping out from under the collar on one side. Is there any way i can repair this? Don't know where to even start..


Bottom of the bladder is a cone-wedge type fit. You can screw the rebound tube back into the outer collar a few turns and wiggle it off. Then carefully reassemble.


----------



## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Doubleclutch said:


> What are acceptable grease alternatives to Slickoleum? I sold my Pike, but still have an air super delux ... can I use my Rock Shox Dynamic seal grease on the Mezzer seals?


Looks like this question never got answered and I'm also curious about whether I can use RockShox Dynamic seal grease and/or SRAM Butter in the Mezzer. Post #11 in this thread indicates that SRAM Butter/Slick Honey/Slickoleum are all the same repackaged Slickoleum product: Suspension maintenance newb....

So, SRAM Butter would seem to be perfectly acceptable. RockShox Dynamic seal grease contains PTFE so I'm not sure you'd want to use that

Also, if you want to buy semi-bath oil at a more reasonable price than $13/100 mL, I've been told by a Manitou mechanic that this is the exact same thing for $20/qt (be sure to select the 5w40 option): Motorex Power Synt 4T Engine Oil - Cycle Gear

Anyways, thanks for the amazing thread! I've been on a Mezzer and Mara Pro since last spring, but I was recovering from a pretty serious head injury and didn't ride much in 2020. All healed up now and looking to nerd out on both.


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Bottom of the bladder is a cone-wedge type fit. You can screw the rebound tube back into the outer collar a few turns and wiggle it off. Then carefully reassemble.


It's assembled as I had imagined, just wasn't sure how it's held together. Found out it was a jammed o-ring under the compression piston. Through that hole the oil was pushing the bladder out of seat.
Should that spring be facing up like in picture?
Thanks allot for help.!
Awesome thread this is.


----------



## k.c.SYD (Dec 19, 2020)

greyshrike said:


> Is this cassette lockring tool long enough to go over schrader valve when one is adjusting travel? I measured the internal length on mine to be 4cm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes, it is, i used it on my LE


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

For those of you who have noticed that all your bath oil is magically 🪄 gone on damper side I can tell you it's all hidden away in the upper legs chillin doing nothing lol.

Can be fixed by dremeling some notches into the white bottom out bumper. Oil can now drain back into lowers and do some work.
















Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Doubleclutch (Aug 25, 2017)

RMCDan said:


> Looks like this question never got answered and I'm also curious about whether I can use RockShox Dynamic seal grease and/or SRAM Butter in the Mezzer. Post #11 in this thread indicates that SRAM Butter/Slick Honey/Slickoleum are all the same repackaged Slickoleum product: Suspension maintenance newb....
> 
> So, SRAM Butter would seem to be perfectly acceptable. RockShox Dynamic seal grease contains PTFE so I'm not sure you'd want to use that
> 
> Also, if you want to buy semi-bath oil at a more reasonable price than $13/100 mL, I've been told by a Manitou mechanic that this is the exact same thing for $20/qt (be sure to select the 5w40 option): Motorex Power Synt 4T Engine Oil - Cycle Gear


Thanks here ... that's my concern. Finding someone that sells SRAM butter / Slikoleum here (Germany) is a tad tricky. And I have the stuff with PTFE, a lot of it...
I just want to know if I substitute one for the other, that I won't compromise something, like delicate o-rings, etc.
On the other hand, it's really easy to to get Motorex where I'm at.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

k.c.SYD said:


> yes, it is, i used it on my LE


I love tools and have many but 50 bones is a little much for this tool IMO. I have a few that work for this, as long as the inner hole is large enough a short one worked fine. I ended up taking a taller cassette tool from ICE tools (older version of what is pictured), drilled out center slightly and works perfectly.....

The taller version is easier to use a torque wrench with...

Just an option if you have not purchased already..


















IceToolz Cassette Lockring Tool - Shimano Spline


<ul> <li>Made of Cr-V steel</li> <li>To be used with 1/2" driver</li> </ul><br/><br/><b>Item Specifications</b><ul><LI>description: Shimano cassette tool without pin</LI></ul>




www.modernbike.com


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

croakies said:


> For those of you who have noticed that all your bath oil is magically 🪄 gone on damper side I can tell you it's all hidden away in the upper legs chillin doing nothing lol.
> 
> Can be fixed by dremeling some notches into the white bottom out bumper. Oil can now drain back into lowers and do some work.
> 
> ...


I completely did not notice that oil is in the upper legs on the damper side but it is freely moving around.


----------



## radiomir79 (May 2, 2011)

Hi guys,

I am about to order a new fork to replace a trashed lyrik for my mk4 nomad. Since I ride quite often in the alps (far away from any workshop), I am thinking about getting a fork without a bladder, since that may be a problematic part, when if fails.
That is why I am looking at the mezzer expert or the RS Zeb select with the charger RC (has no bladder, it has the floating IFP system) ...or again a lyrik
I do not need the best DH fork in the world, I need a super reliable fork.

What do you think? should I stick with RS or go for the mezzer expert?

also - I was not able to find any information about the mezzer expert compression dial.. As I spend quite a lot of time pedaling up on gravel roads, I would like to know if the mezzer expert compression dial (when fully closed) provides a firm platform (like a lyrik rct3)

thank you guys for any help!


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

Probably a dumb question but I'll ask anyway. Been on a Mezzer pro for about a year and have been running stock settings on a 160mm fork. Did try a 2021 Fox36 for a bit and then went back to the Mezzer 'cause its small bump sensitivity. Recently, based a lot on this thread, started trying different air pressures in the main and IRT, specifically dropping pressure and going by fork feel. At 190lbs geared. Anyway, dropped it to 78IRT/48M and the shock was like butter. Sped up the rebound, just seemed perfect, was using my full travel and was getting use out of the LSC/HSC. Rode some really steep stuff and the fork seemed great. Then I made the mistake of measuring my sag and realized I was about 31% which seems like a hell of a lot on the front fork. So the question, is am I messing up my geometry by running that kind of sag or could I potentially increase the air at similiar ratios and maybe get the same result. Fork didn't seem to be bottoming inappropriately and was just sucking up the chop. I was running 1 click HSC and 4 clicks LSC from open. I did try to adjust the main to improve sag to 20% without increasing the IRT much (80/56) and that just sucked even with damping wide open and less rebound. Super harsh. Anyway, appreciate any insight.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Headoc said:


> Probably a dumb question but I'll ask anyway. Been on a Mezzer pro for about a year and have been running stock settings on a 160mm fork. Did try a 2021 Fox36 for a bit and then went back to the Mezzer 'cause its small bump sensitivity. Recently, based a lot on this thread, started trying different air pressures in the main and IRT, specifically dropping pressure and going by fork feel. At 190lbs geared. Anyway, dropped it to 78IRT/48M and the shock was like butter. Sped up the rebound, just seemed perfect, was using my full travel and was getting use out of the LSC/HSC. Rode some really steep stuff and the fork seemed great. Then I made the mistake of measuring my sag and realized I was about 31% which seems like a hell of a lot on the front fork. So the question, is am I messing up my geometry by running that kind of sag or could I potentially increase the air at similiar ratios and maybe get the same result. Fork didn't seem to be bottoming inappropriately and was just sucking up the chop. I was running 1 click HSC and 4 clicks LSC from open. I did try to adjust the main to improve sag to 20% without increasing the IRT much (80/56) and that just sucked even with damping wide open and less rebound. Super harsh. Anyway, appreciate any insight.


Manitou states "air pressures recommendations should yield 20-25% sag." Doesn't mean you have to stay in that range or go for the lowest possible recommended sag. If the fork feels great with about 31% sag, then enjoy the set-up. About 31% sag is less than 10mm difference when compared to 25% sag. Not much difference in my opinion, at least I know I wouldn't have the expertise to tell that little of a difference. If that geometry change concerns you, you could always raise the fork to 170mm travel and get most of that difference back.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

I don't necessarily know what I'm doing, but after watching enough Vorsprung videos, I've stopped measuring sag and I'm almost to the point where I can stop caring about max travel used. Long story short, sag is not a repeatable measurement on a fork and should really only be used to give you a starting point for setting your fork pressure.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

I re-shimmed my Mezzer Pro last Friday. I took one 17.5mm shim out and replaced it with a 12 x 0.8 x 0.1. I weigh 73kg ready to ride and If anything I think the fork felt a little too plush if that’s possible. Don’t get me wrong it felt awesome and made the fork even better on small chatter than it already was which is what I was chasing but I felt I wanted a tad more support. Today I put another 2psi in the main spring which took it up to 42psi and left the IRT at 62psi. It’s amazing how much difference only 2psi makes to this fork. The fork is dead set amazing to ride now. It has always been an excellent fork and I’ve been stoked with it but now it’s simply brilliant. I literally can’t fault it now. Based on how the fork felt replacing the 17.5mm shim with the 12mm I think removing the 17.5mm and not replacing it at all would have WAY too much of an effect on the handling and the feel of the fork. 
I also want to give a big shout out and thank you to Dougal who took a phone call from me while he was at home. It appeared as though some of the parts in my compression shim stack were in the wrong order or missing but they were all there and correct but some were stuck together with damper fluid and some were in the other end of the bladder as I pulled it off the opposite way to what Dougal said he does it. Anyway he confirmed the correct order for me and I reassembled it without any issues and like I said it feels amazing. 
Even happier with this amazing fork than what I was previously and just for reference I have one of the late model 2021 spec forks with the lighter tune.


----------



## MartinS (Jan 31, 2004)

Just as an FYI for anyone looking for a Manitou vice clamp block that doesn't cost a ton, this guy is making 3D printed ones for much cheaper.









RNoksDesigns - Etsy Canada


Shop My 3D printed creations to solve first world problems by RNoksDesigns located in Oregon, United States. Smooth dispatch! Has a history of dispatching on time with tracking. Speedy replies! Has a history of replying to messages quickly. Rave reviews! Average review rating is 4.8 or higher




www.etsy.com


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

Finally installed and set up the Mezzer. First ride yesterday. For reference:

Me = Approx 150lbs riding weight.
Bike = Ripmo V2, Mezzer at 160mm
Settings = fallowed the spreadsheet IRT/Main pressures. 43/72. Reb 6 from closed. HSC open. LSC I from open.

Impressions:
What a burly bulldozer of a chassis. Impressive and noticeable.
Fork itself - a bit "stiff" but was break in ride. Not really "plush" off the top, but not bad. I'd like it a little better for small bump/chatter. Travel use - ~80% and had a couple slow speed large drops (think nose down, lots of fork compression typical).
Overall - pretty excited to get the setup how I want. 

Question: If I understand I can probably drop the main and IRT pressures a few PSI for that more plush feel?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

kamper11 said:


> Finally installed and set up the Mezzer. First ride yesterday. For reference:
> 
> Me = Approx 150lbs riding weight.
> Bike = Ripmo V2, Mezzer at 160mm
> ...


I weigh 5 lb. more than you and am running 35/55 for the main and IRT. I'm not bottoming out unless I really do a big drop (not felt with the HBO) and and it's very smooth over the chunk. I also have the HSC closed a click and about 4 to 5 clicks of LSC. Rebound is 8 from closed.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

kamper11 said:


> Finally installed and set up the Mezzer. First ride yesterday. For reference:
> 
> Me = Approx 150lbs riding weight.
> Bike = Ripmo V2, Mezzer at 160mm
> ...


Try opening the rebound all the way.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

kamper11 said:


> Finally installed and set up the Mezzer. First ride yesterday. For reference:
> 
> Me = Approx 150lbs riding weight.
> Bike = Ripmo V2, Mezzer at 160mm
> ...


For your weight I would try 38 and 58. You are too high in the pressures. 
HSC open
LSC 2 clicks from open
Rebound somewhere around 7-8 from closed
Definitely do the re-shim you will LOVE it. 
I was running 40 and 62 with 3 clicks of LSC open HSC and 6 clicks of rebound from closed and I'm 73kg (160lb) ready to ride and loved the fork before I re-shimmed it. After substituting one of the 17.5mm shims for a 12mm it's epic.


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

lowered pressures as guided, opened rebound a couple clicks and the garage test says hexxx yes!! 

will post up 2nd ride reviews.

THANKS!!


----------



## fireflywa (Aug 27, 2020)

Deleted, because I stopped being lazy and found the answers to my questions.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

kamper11 said:


> lowered pressures as guided, opened rebound a couple clicks and the garage test says hexxx yes!!
> 
> will post up 2nd ride reviews.
> 
> THANKS!!


Keep me updated with how you are going with set up. The pressures I recommended to you are for a supportive ride for your weight and could potentially be a tad on the high side in the main spring but that depends on how you like a fork to feel. It's going to be bucket loads better than the pressures you were running though. Even 1 or 2 psi makes a noticeable difference on this fork.


----------



## cookie70 (Oct 23, 2019)

I got a set of new forks couple of weeks ago, is there any way to know what shim setup it has? If anything I'd like to open up compression a bit as I run it fully open for all but big jumps/drops. Rebound is mid adjuster which is great.

Also, if I wanted to get some shims, any recommendations where to get them (Australia)

cheers


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

cookie70 said:


> I got a set of new forks couple of weeks ago, is there any way to know what shim setup it has? If anything I'd like to open up compression a bit as I run it fully open for all but big jumps/drops. Rebound is mid adjuster which is great.
> 
> Also, if I wanted to get some shims, any recommendations where to get them (Australia)
> 
> cheers


If it's a 2021 spec it's likely going to have the same stack mine had and that is two 17.5mm shims side by side. You can get shims from Teknik suspension. The only thing is they will only sell them in batches of 10. So I had to buy 10 of the 12mm shims to re-shim mine. If that is all you want to do ie: replace one of the 17.5mm with a 12mm then PM me your address and I'll send you one. If you want other sizes you'll have to source them yourself. 
The 12mm shim in place of the 17.5mm makes a really noticeable and awesome difference. Very recommended. I'm 73kg ready to ride and after doing that I had to bump my main air spring pressure up by 5% so it's now at 42psi and the IRT is set at 62psi. I run 3 clicks of LSC but that's also the setting I was running before the re-shim and open on the HSC. I'm at 6 clicks of rebound from closed. The fork is epic.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Second Teknik motorsport. Though they did send me some 6 id x 19 od instead of 9id by mistake, called them and had some in the mail the next day. If only they sent me a size that's useful for mountain bikes.... lol


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

spo0n said:


> Second Teknik motorsport. Though they did send me some 6 id x 19 od instead of 9id by mistake, called them and had some in the mail the next day. If only they sent me a size that's useful for mountain bikes.... lol


9 that's odd I had to get 12 x 8 x 0.1 and they fit perfectly.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OzIbis said:


> 9 that's odd I had to get 12 x 8 x 0.1 and they fit perfectly.


9mm is a Rockshox shim size. I suspect @spo0n was up to something completely different.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Dougal said:


> 9mm is a Rockshox shim size. I suspect @spo0n was up to something completely different.


That must be the case I just assumed that he was playing with a Mezzer seeing as though he was posting in this thread.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Oh yeah no I was playing with something else. That was just my experience with Teknik. They handled it well.

I ordered a few 6id sizes and one 9id size. I think they just didn't notice one had a different ID.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

spo0n said:


> Oh yeah no I was playing with something else. That was just my experience with Teknik. They handled it well.
> 
> I ordered a few 6id sizes and one 9id size. I think they just didn't notice one had a different ID.


Are you sure you weren't just holding the shim upside down. ?


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

Follow on. 
Better - but not where I want it. Couple of rides. Chasing the pressures down further but not much change.
Note - so shim mod. Maybe by end of next week.
- ride weight w gear. 150
-- 32psi main, 52psi IRT
-- Reb 5 from closed. LSC open, HSC open
Small bump at low speed - seems it wants to fight initiation of travel so the off the top is a little stiff imo. stuff im used to a fork just absorbing its not doing as well.
- small bump higher speeds. Better as speed picks up. Still not as good as Lyrik was
Big bump/tech features at low speed - kind of similar to small bump. forks not misbehaving, not as supple as I'd hoped.
- Big bump high speed. Pretty freekin good. In current setup the faster the speed and velocity of things the better.
Travel use. like the higher pressures - leaving a lot of travel behind. Like at least 1/3. 
Reading this and other Mezzer thread - im thinking increase main pressures a bit, and reduce IRT. Is that the right direction at this point?

Side note: - I popped a DVO JadeX on yesterday w the progressive 350-425 spring. Found setup pretty straight forward w a sag target of 15mm.(altho making sure I got an accurate measure was fun) for my first ever coil shock ride - pretty impressed. I think im a solid 2 clicks fast w rebound, but dang... I PR'd 2 tech DH segments yesterday and while I did feel the bike was a little "stiff" up front, the rear worked quite well. As Mr Myagi would say - "find balance Daniel-san!"


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

let me correct myself. more pressure likely doesn't make sense and it didn't. After typing the last note, and altho my mind said no way - I dropped IRT to 42, Main to 28. Went out and rode my reg trails inc some of the same segments from yesterday. WHOA - now the fork is really getting there. Was real close. Nice and soft on the small trail chatter did nothing bad. Left about 22 mm of travel. Had just enough ramp at the end and the travel was well controlled. Reb also slowed by 1 click. much happier post ride!!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kamper11 said:


> Follow on.
> Better - but not where I want it. Couple of rides. Chasing the pressures down further but not much change.
> Note - so shim mod. Maybe by end of next week.
> - ride weight w gear. 150
> ...


At your weight take out one of the 17.5mm shims completely. That will let you run more appropriate air pressure. You're probably wanting around the 30-35/50-55psi range when you get the damper sorted.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

kamper11 said:


> let me correct myself. more pressure likely doesn't make sense and it didn't. After typing the last note, and altho my mind said no way - I dropped IRT to 42, Main to 28. Went out and rode my reg trails inc some of the same segments from yesterday. WHOA - now the fork is really getting there. Was real close. Nice and soft on the small trail chatter did nothing bad. Left about 22 mm of travel. Had just enough ramp at the end and the travel was well controlled. Reb also slowed by 1 click. much happier post ride!!


You seem to have your rebound set pretty slow. I'm at 6 from closed with quite a bit more pressure in both the main and IRT. 42 psi and 62 psi after re-shim. I was at 40 psi and 62 psi beforehand. Slow rebound and low pressures would most likely increase "packing" in the suspension making the feel more harsh. I would imagine that with pressures as low as 28 psi and 42 psi your rebound would have to be something like 8 from closed if not more. We are only 10lb difference in weight with me at 73kg (160lb) ride weight but at the moment we are worlds apart on pressure considering how much difference only 2 psi can make to the feel of this fork. To me your pressures are very very low. I can't help but think you are trying to correct way too much rebound damping with air pressure. Next step for you is to do the shim stack. Obviously when you do that you will be replacing/servicing the lowers on reassembly so that will eliminate the chance of the lowers being low on oil. While you have it apart do the air springs using Slickoleum. It's a pretty easy job. If all that's done then you've eliminated the chance of anything lube wise making the fork harsh. 
From the very first ride on my Mezzer I thought it was awesome. It got better as I dialled it in over the next day and a half but I always had a good feeling with it. I found it more controlled in the damping than my pseudo Lyrik I had and MUCH better on bigger faster hits. It's just so supportive and handles drops and rocky rutty stuff without blinking an eye lid. It was only recently that I decided to play with the shim stack thinking there was a little more left in it. It was amazing everywhere but I thought it could possibly be a tad better on constant small chatter. In saying that it wasn't at all bad. After the re-shim it's dead set epic. Mine has always been better on chatter than the Diamond ever was. Now it's worlds apart. In the short term until you re-shim I think you need to speed up your rebound and by a fair bit and bear in mind that the further apart your air pressures are the more progressive the fork is and the closer they are the linear it is. It's inherently a very progressive fork. You can make it more progressive by increasing the IRT or leaving the IRT and dropping the main pressure. The reverse goes for making it more linear. You need to think of the air springs in a different way to the air springs in a Lyrik or 36.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

kamper11 said:


> let me correct myself. more pressure likely doesn't make sense and it didn't. After typing the last note, and altho my mind said no way - I dropped IRT to 42, Main to 28. Went out and rode my reg trails inc some of the same segments from yesterday. WHOA - now the fork is really getting there. Was real close. Nice and soft on the small trail chatter did nothing bad. Left about 22 mm of travel. Had just enough ramp at the end and the travel was well controlled. Reb also slowed by 1 click. much happier post ride!!


I would also recommend try your rebound full open at such low pressures.

Also, make sure you wind your air pump all the way on when filling the main chamber. While it is attached push the fork through it's full range. It should be easy. Then top it out, set pressure and disconnect.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Can anyone compare the stack height of a Mezzer to a current Pike 29?

I’ve found this on the Hayes site:

Ride Height: 534-574mm (27.5") 554-594mm (29")

Is ‘ride height’ the same as ‘axle to crown’? 

On paper it looks like a Mezzer would only be a few mm taller than a Pike. RS lists a 140mm Pike A2C as 551 (I’m assuming the 554 Manitou measurement is the Mezzer set at 140).

I’ve heard that the Mezzer is noticeably taller than equivalent RS forks so I thought I’d better check...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Yes, the Mezzer is about 3 mm taller than Rockshox forks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> Also, make sure you wind your air pump all the way on when filling the main chamber. While it is attached push the fork through it's full range. It should be easy.


Just an asterix to this statement, if you are at 180mm travel, it's going to take probably 120+ lbs to compress it with a pump attached. You'll get to about 30mm of travel left with very little force, but then the lowers ramp up hard.


----------



## linclinc (Jan 10, 2019)

Is there a workable way to reduce the size of the negative air chamber? Love the fork, but would like more support in the first inch of travel without having to jack up the air pressure.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

linclinc said:


> Is there a workable way to reduce the size of the negative air chamber? Love the fork, but would like more support in the first inch of travel without having to jack up the air pressure.


Grease works. But I think there might be more that needs attention in your setup before doing that.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

linclinc said:


> Is there a workable way to reduce the size of the negative air chamber? Love the fork, but would like more support in the first inch of travel without having to jack up the air pressure.


Why though?

The first inch of travel is sag. What travel and static sag do you have?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

kamper11 said:


> let me correct myself. more pressure likely doesn't make sense and it didn't. After typing the last note, and altho my mind said no way - I dropped IRT to 42, Main to 28. Went out and rode my reg trails inc some of the same segments from yesterday. WHOA - now the fork is really getting there. Was real close. Nice and soft on the small trail chatter did nothing bad. Left about 22 mm of travel. Had just enough ramp at the end and the travel was well controlled. Reb also slowed by 1 click. much happier post ride!!


Just one thing I also want to confirm. Did you set your IRT pressure first? It needs to be done before the main spring. If you don't it changes the position where the IRT piston sits and reduces the capacity of the IRT chamber. If you didn't let all the air out of your fork and start again setting the IRT first then the main. You want the bike in a stand or at least laying down so there's no weight on the front wheel. When setting your main air pressure ideally use a shock pump with a 2 stage valve fitting and make sure it's screwed ALL the way on. The schrader valve has an extra long core that needs to be fully compressed or else no air will get into the negative spring making the fork really harsh. Before removing the pump after setting the air pressure in the main pull on the lower leg to make sure it's at full extension or else wherever it's sitting, eg 150mm on a 160mm travel fork, is where it will stay and how much travel you will have. After you've pulled on the lowers check to make sure the pressure is still where you want it and loosen the 2nd stage of the valve fitting followed by the 1st so you lose minimal if any air out of the fork. 
You may have already been aware and done all this but I'm just checking because if you don't do the above in the correct order the fork will feel like crap.


----------



## linclinc (Jan 10, 2019)

CCS86 said:


> Why though?
> 
> The first inch of travel is sag. What travel and static sag do you have?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I just don't like the sloppy feel of travel in the first inch - and don't like running much sag (also run my suspension stiff throughout travel). Have used MegNeg and Luftcappe in the past to fiddle with size of negative chambers on my bikes and every time come back to preferring higher 'breakaway' force at the beginning of the travel. Messing with negative chamber is usually the easiest way to tune this - but with the Mezzer, I guess I could play with having a higher pressure in the main chamber - then run the IRT a bit lower to keep things more linear without crazy ramp up - sort of achieves the same result as tweaking the negative chamber, I guess.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

linclinc said:


> I just don't like the sloppy feel of travel in the first inch - and don't like running much sag (also run my suspension stiff throughout travel). Have used MegNeg and Luftcappe in the past to fiddle with size of negative chambers on my bikes and every time come back to preferring higher 'breakaway' force at the beginning of the travel. Messing with negative chamber is usually the easiest way to tune this - but with the Mezzer, I guess I could play with having a higher pressure in the main chamber - then run the IRT a bit lower to keep things more linear without crazy ramp up - sort of achieves the same result as tweaking the negative chamber, I guess.


Even if you are only running 140mm travel... the fork compressing an inch under your weight is only 18% sag. That isn't "sloppy". That is functioning suspension.

You can tune it for however you want it to feel, it's your bike, but running a bunch of breakaway force is reducing your traction. With such low sag, your wheel can't extend into dips to keep the tire on the ground.

You can try holding the fork aggressively topped out when disconnecting the pump. This will have some of the effect you are looking for.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

linclinc said:


> I just don't like the sloppy feel of travel in the first inch - and don't like running much sag (also run my suspension stiff throughout travel). Have used MegNeg and Luftcappe in the past to fiddle with size of negative chambers on my bikes and every time come back to preferring higher 'breakaway' force at the beginning of the travel. Messing with negative chamber is usually the easiest way to tune this - but with the Mezzer, I guess I could play with having a higher pressure in the main chamber - then run the IRT a bit lower to keep things more linear without crazy ramp up - sort of achieves the same result as tweaking the negative chamber, I guess.


There is another thread (masterdon?) where someone is using a tube spacer to reduce the chamber size of the IRT(under the piston),in order to match ratio's with reducing travel, but this technique would increase the volume of the pos+ chamber & change the ratio compared to the neg-.i.e reduce the neg- in comparison.
Not sure what that will do to the end of stroke ramp up though, or you could just experiment with packing the neg with grease.

On a side note I saw recently on pink bike? the foam-(Edit :carbon air) that can hold more air volume than its physical volume, I wonder by using it in the pos & neg chambers you could increase the volume in an effective manner. neg is easy enough to place around the lower spacer, pos+ would probably have to have a recessed piston packed with it or attached to the underside of the irt piston so it moves with the piston if you wanted to keep the irt.
Or You could in theory remove the irt piston & pack that area with foam for lots of pos+ volume, then tune with foam in the neg.
One thing I love about this fork is the ease of experimenting, then returning it back to standard if it doesn't work out.


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

OzIbis said:


> Just one thing I also want to confirm. Did you set your IRT pressure first? It needs to be done before the main spring. If you don't it changes the position where the IRT piston sits and reduces the capacity of the IRT chamber. If you didn't let all the air out of your fork and start again setting the IRT first then the main. You want the bike in a stand or at least laying down so there's no weight on the front wheel. When setting your main air pressure ideally use a shock pump with a 2 stage valve fitting and make sure it's screwed ALL the way on. The schrader valve has an extra long core that needs to be fully compressed or else no air will get into the negative spring making the fork really harsh. Before removing the pump after setting the air pressure in the main pull on the lower leg to make sure it's at full extension or else wherever it's sitting, eg 150mm on a 160mm travel fork, is where it will stay and how much travel you will have. After you've pulled on the lowers check to make sure the pressure is still where you want it and loosen the 2nd stage of the valve fitting followed by the 1st so you lose minimal if any air out of the fork.
> You may have already been aware and done all this but I'm just checking because if you don't do the above in the correct order the fork will feel like crap.


Oz - thanks for the process review. Every time I changed pressures, I bled main to zero, disconnect pump, bled IRT to zero and started fresh from there charging IRT first, than main. I did pull on the lowers to ensure full extensions/travel. Maybe didn't need to bleed both to zero psi, but seemed the right thing considering how to set the fork up properly etc... next step is to remove the 17.5 shim on the damper side per you and Dougal recommendations. FWIW - even tho I went lower pressure than I could wrap my brain around - the fork finally performed well and prob on par w a new OOB Lyrik. Thats a good thing. Knowing it can get better w a bit more tuning is an exciting proposition. OH - and the Jadex coil w the progressive spring may stay on the bike at the cost of some weight. Coil - just so good everywhere and a pretty easy shock to setup nicely. Just being able to make micro adjustments to the compression collar on the trail is so ez and nice. Bike felt really good as in really really good. Really smoothed the trail and incredible traction. Plus had plenty of pop for some little trail features. Ive been following the idea of the EXT, but my dealer had extra JadeX takeoffs available, and I got the newest black stanchion w pro spring for a steal. Couldn't turn it down to at least try a coil shock on the R'mo. Thanks again for all the tips and advice!


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

kamper11 said:


> Oz - thanks for the process review. Every time I changed pressures, I bled main to zero, disconnect pump, bled IRT to zero and started fresh from there charging IRT first, than main. I did pull on the lowers to ensure full extensions/travel. Maybe didn't need to bleed both to zero psi, but seemed the right thing considering how to set the fork up properly etc... next step is to remove the 17.5 shim on the damper side per you and Dougal recommendations. FWIW - even tho I went lower pressure than I could wrap my brain around - the fork finally performed well and prob on par w a new OOB Lyrik. Thats a good thing. Knowing it can get better w a bit more tuning is an exciting proposition. OH - and the Jadex coil w the progressive spring may stay on the bike at the cost of some weight. Coil - just so good everywhere and a pretty easy shock to setup nicely. Just being able to make micro adjustments to the compression collar on the trail is so ez and nice. Bike felt really good as in really really good. Really smoothed the trail and incredible traction. Plus had plenty of pop for some little trail features. Ive been following the idea of the EXT, but my dealer had extra JadeX takeoffs available, and I got the newest black stanchion w pro spring for a steal. Couldn't turn it down to at least try a coil shock on the R'mo. Thanks again for all the tips and advice!


All good I thought you would be onto the correct procedure I just wanted to check. 
As far as the shim removal I can't claim that as being an OzIbis original tweak that came from Dougal. He is the man for set up tweaks on the Mezzer. I removed the 17.5mm shim and replaced it with a 12mm. For me not replacing the the shim with the 12mm would have made the fork way too soft. Once I had done the shim swap I found the fork bordering on being too plush, if that's possible, and I added 5% more air pressure to the main to get the feel I wanted and it's so incredibly good now. He is recommending that you remove one 17.5mm altogether and not replace it. I would definitely do that if that's what he recommends. Even going from the 17.5mm to the 12mm made a big difference. Actually bigger than I expected. The total removal of the shim is going to make a huge difference. It will definitely allow you to get your air pressures back up where they should be. Anyway it's a fiddly job but we'll worth the effort and it's pretty satisfying playing with that stuff and making big improvements. Hook in and get it done you won't regret it.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I fully removed a 17.5mm shim and wouldn't call it a massive change. But is was definitely worth doing.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> I fully removed a 17.5mm shim and wouldn't call it a massive change. But is was definitely worth doing.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Just out of interest what is your weight?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

OzIbis said:


> Just out of interest what is your weight?


156 lbs
150 mm travel

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

This question would probably be for Dougal. Could you provide a graph of the three different HSC stacks that have been discussed? Stock, one 17.5mm replaced with a 12mm, and a 17.5mm removed. And with the adjuster fully open and full closed on each setup. I would like to know if there is any overlap between the three setups. I think it would be very helpful to people to be able to look on paper and see what the three different step-ups provide.

I have replaced a 17.5mm with a 12mm and still have the HSC fully open. I like this setup much better. I would like to be able to open it up a little more when the trails get wet. This is why I would like to look on paper and see how close a 17.5mm with a 12mm and fully open is to a 17.5 removed and fully closed. I think it is damn good fork now but can I make it even better?


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> 156 lbs
> 150 mm travel
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I'm + or - 160lb 
160mm travel. 
I found after the shim replacement the difference was substantial. It wasn't a subtle change for me. I was talking to Dougal about it and he said the difference on the Dyno wasn't massive. The feeling in your hands though I would describe as very noticeable. It actually made the fork softer than I liked but that was easily fixed with a couple of psi extra in the main spring.


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

Hello guys. Could someone please confirm the direction of the spring in this picture for me?

Thanks in advance









Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

TerryLM said:


> This question would probably be for Dougal. Could you provide a graph of the three different HSC stacks that have been discussed? Stock, one 17.5mm replaced with a 12mm, and a 17.5mm removed. And with the adjuster fully open and full closed on each setup. I would like to know if there is any overlap between the three setups. I think it would be very helpful to people to be able to look on paper and see what the three different step-ups provide.
> 
> I have replaced a 17.5mm with a 12mm and still have the HSC fully open. I like this setup much better. I would like to be able to open it up a little more when the trails get wet. This is why I would like to look on paper and see how close a 17.5mm with a 12mm and fully open is to a 17.5 removed and fully closed. I think it is damn good fork now but can I make it even better?


I can't provide any graphs right now as the plots I have taken earlier are in a different format. (I would need to revalve twice and run the same damper on the dyno 3x which is ~2-3 hours work). But there's basically 10% difference between stock and the 12mm shim then another 10% down to that middle shim removed completely.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

romulin said:


> Hello guys. Could someone please confirm the direction of the spring in this picture for me?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> ...


The spring is for the check shim under the piston. It goes up the other way.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

For those trying to eek out more small bump sensitivity I can HIGHLY recommend getting bushings burnished. 

Mezzer was already pretty good w/ small bump compared to Fox 38/36 I've been on and lyrics I've tried. Burnishing took it to next level.

Performance uplift in all situation but especially noticible on small bump/chatter. Substantial reduction in any sort of "shock" or kickback you feel through hands when hitting small/medium stuff head on.

Letting me get away with running a very supportive setup which is what I typically tune for(above recommend PSI, HSC 3 out from open, LSC 4 out from closed) without any harshness.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

croakies said:


> For those trying to eek out more small bump sensitivity I can HIGHLY recommend getting bushings burnished.
> 
> Mezzer was already pretty good w/ small bump compared to Fox 38/36 I've been on and lyrics I've tried. Burnishing took it to next level.
> 
> ...


What size burnishing head did you use?


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

I got it my tool from oliver at liquid labs. I just told him it's for my mezzer. Seems he recommends a +.07 so I'm assuming I got a 37.07.

I have 2 mezzers, and one of them always felt smoother than the other. I almost could not get the die through my "less smooth" pair. It was backbreaking sweaty work getting that die past haha. Now both Mezzers are equally as buttery.

I'm in the SF bay area if anyone local wants to borrow it.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Same here, Oliver was awesome to deal with but you have to be patient, he was about 3-4 weeks or when I first contacted him. If anyone is in Phoenix and wants to try it I got the tool with the 34,35,36,37 and 38mm dies.


----------



## fireflywa (Aug 27, 2020)

Would love to chat with anyone in the Seattle area who has the die...

Also, I had to Google what was being referred to as "bushings." So...wipers, now I get it!


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

fireflywa said:


> Would love to chat with anyone in the Seattle area who has the die...
> 
> Also, I had to Google what was being referred to as "bushings." So...wipers, now I get it!


Wipers are the soft rubber lips you see exposed where the lowers meet the stanchions.

Bushings are hard, thin, low friction shells press fit inside the lowers and they control the motion of the stanchions.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## fireflywa (Aug 27, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Wipers are the soft rubber lips you see exposed where the lowers meet the stanchions.
> 
> Bushings are hard, thin, low friction shells press fit inside the lowers and they control the motion of the stanchions.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Welp, now I feel dumb. Watched some videos of bushing burnishing and it looked like it was just pressing the wipers wider. Doh.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Anyone experiencing air migration from the IRT into the main chamber? Fork is just back from Hayes for a creaking CSA (which they handled quickly and hassle free), but now air from the IRT is making its way into the main chamber. Pressure was set at 35/55, and pressure readings two days later on pump attachment are 37.5/42. With the IRT set at 55 my pump will read 52 upon reattaching. There is quite a bit of air transfer.

Being concerned about possible air migration prior to Mezzer ownership I have watched the psi carefully and had none before the warranty service.

Any suggestions on quick and easy fix or things to examine?


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> Anyone experiencing air migration from the IRT into the main chamber? Fork is just back from Hayes for a creaking CSA (which they handled quickly and hassle free), but now air from the IRT is making its way into the main chamber. Pressure was set at 35/55, and pressure readings two days later on pump attachment are 37.5/42. With the IRT set at 55 my pump will read 52 upon reattaching. There is quite a bit of air transfer.
> 
> Being concerned about possible air migration prior to Mezzer ownership I have watched the psi carefully and had none before the warranty service.
> 
> Any suggestions on quick and easy fix or things to examine?


I would remove the IRT and examine the seal, if everything looks good just regrease it and see if that does it


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> I would remove the IRT and examine the seal, if everything looks good just regrease it and see if that does it


Seal looks fine. There is a slight amount of wiggle to the IRT piston. I can't say for sure if that was present prior to the service.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> Seal looks fine. There is a slight amount of wiggle to the IRT piston. I can't say for sure if that was present prior to the service.


My IRT was dry & sticking from the get go, I had air migration even after lubing & freeing up the piston, changing out the inner & outer solved the issue.
The inner o ring is a 110 size , outer 122 from memory.
The inner is the same size as the bottom out o ring under the IRT piston, so you could swap with that one over as an experiment first if you don't have easy access to a supply of o rings.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

cashews said:


> My IRT was dry & sticking from the get go, I had air migration even after lubing & freeing up the piston, changing out the inner & outer solved the issue.
> The inner o ring is a 110 size , outer 122 from memory.
> The inner is the same size as the bottom out o ring under the IRT piston, so you could swap with that one over as an experiment first if you don't have easy access to a supply of o rings.


Great info. Thanks!

Edit to add: Good source for Manitou compatible o-rings? I have some 110s that look very similar if not a hair larger. No idea if the material is same.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> Great info. Thanks!
> 
> Edit to add: Good source for Manitou compatible o-rings? I have some 110s that look very similar if not a hair larger. No idea if the material is same.


I walked into an industrial supply store & asked for BS 110 & 122 o rings in nitrile,
I looked up a resource about o ring material first & went off the recommendation for material from there, it was also dictated by what they actually had in stock.


----------



## Notorious_BIL (Nov 14, 2004)

I'm looking to remove the 17.5 mm shim from my compression shim stack. When messing with the assembly around the stack, are there any torque settings not mentioned in either the official service guide or the jmvar's guide?



https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/360102677333/Mezzer_Pro_Expert_Service_Guide.pdf










Manitou Mezzer Pro Valving Change Guide.pdf







drive.google.com


----------



## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

Was looking to try a Mezzer but It seems like Mezzers and other Manitou products are all unavailable, even at the manufacturer level and not because of supply chain issues. Is there a revamp of the lineup coming soon? Any rumours floating about?


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

JonF1 said:


> Was looking to try a Mezzer but It seems like Mezzers and other Manitou products are all unavailable, even at the manufacturer level and not because of supply chain issues. Is there a revamp of the lineup coming soon? Any rumours floating about?


Just curious how you determined " not because of supply chain issues"


----------



## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

TraxFactory said:


> Just curious how you determined " not because of supply chain issues"


That's what i'm asking.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

JonF1 said:


> That's what i'm asking.


No, you stated that.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

CCS86 said:


> No, you stated that.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Are you here to claim otherwise? Or are we going to get into a good, old-fashioned game of internet pedantry?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

JonF1 said:


> Are you here to claim otherwise? Or are we going to get into a good, old-fashioned game of internet pedantry?


No, I have no inside information about why there is no stock. Neither do you, so don't make statements that you have zero basis to make.



JonF1 said:


> ...Manitou products are all unavailable, even at the manufacturer level and not because of supply chain issues.


----------



## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

CCS86 said:


> No, I have no inside information about why there is no stock. Neither do you, so don't make statements that you have zero basis to make.


Know how a Manitou fanboi is arguing? His lips are moving!


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

JonF1 said:


> Know how a Manitou fanboi is arguing? His lips are moving!


You seem more like a Fox guy.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

JonF1 said:


> That's what i'm asking.


Oh I see. If you re-read you post it sounds like your stating this, that is why I asked.

My *guess *is due to manufacturing backlog, since they are out of just about everything else and that is the same across the board.


----------



## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

TraxFactory said:


> Oh I see. If you re-read you post it sounds like your stating this, that is why I asked.
> 
> My *guess *is due to manufacturing backlog, since they are out of just about everything else and that is the same across the board.


While it could be thier chosen verbiage, the "unavailable" status (as opposed to backorder) on the Hayes side for most of the lineup (mainly Mezzer and Dorado) had me curious as to whether there was a refresh in the pipe. I think the Mezzer had already seen a recent refresh but the dual crown less so. Was interested in both for some new bike projects...


----------



## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

GiddyHitch said:


> You seem more like a Fox guy.


More of an EXT guy but sans the budget.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JonF1 said:


> Was looking to try a Mezzer but It seems like Mezzers and other Manitou products are all unavailable, even at the manufacturer level and not because of supply chain issues. Is there a revamp of the lineup coming soon? Any rumours floating about?


Mezzers have demand outstripping supply. The only one I can keep in stock is a 27" 44 offset. They are always refreshing model lines. Last one released was the R7. You'll have to wait to see what comes next.

I can tell you that last year put everyones release schedules into a tail-spin.


----------



## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

Well it looks like a new Dorado refresh might explain the current availability status on the Hayes website. I'd be interested in running this on my Giga at 180mm.



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-clemens-kaudela-is-riding-a-new-manitou-dorado-at-darkfest.html


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JonF1 said:


> Well it looks like a new Dorado refresh might explain the current availability status on the Hayes website. I'd be interested in running this on my Giga at 180mm.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-clemens-kaudela-is-riding-a-new-manitou-dorado-at-darkfest.html


Manitou just put up this darkfest run on their instagram:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CPI_5o_hCnF/


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

Mezzer tuning update:

I had Main PSI down to 24 the previous ride to try and find some decent small bump sensitivity. Seated sag was still less 20%. FWIW - I have been getting some hand and wrist pains so I know its not functioning proper.

So I bled both main and IRT chambers back to ZERO psi. I was surprised that I couldn't get the fork to bottom out. In fact prob a full inch from bottom with full weight on the fork. Got me thinking something definitely NOT right. So lets start the investigation. Hey - why not use those handy casting bleed screws just to see if any casting pressures had built up. I know it happens and have bled casting pressures from Lyrik so...

I slowly/lightly loosened the bleed screw - left-air chamber side first.. Hmmm a fairly long sustained pssssssssssst (I did simply let the screw drop but made sure it was unthreaded). I was surprised at "how much" seemed to be there. More than I've heard release from my Lyrik. Re-tighten and over to right - damper side. Maybe a very little but nothing audible like the left side so re-tightened. Compressed fork under body and easily found bottom out - tried it again just to make sure...

Back to fork setup. Made sure I had the fork fully extended and starting w IRT - added 42 psi. On to main and added 32 psi. HOLY FREEKING CRAP! completely different fork just using some body weight compressions in the garage. Cant wait to ride it - if the rain lets up today!

Will report back after actual trail ride. I fell I may need to add more psi to the IRT as it seemed I can compress pretty easy and deep into the travel.


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

Update; Got in a short ride btw rains. Reg trails - decent sampling of roots, rocks, ups, downs etc...

I may now keep it!! HA - it was tons better and the small bump was there, but a little light in IRT so will add some as I used like 95% of travel and that's a great deal more than I've ever used. Overall rode just a tad linear. My ride settings went up from previous note for the ride.
- 48IRT, 34main. 
- Rebound 7 from close. 
- LSC and HSC open for most of ride. Added 2 to both during but backed off to open on final descent to truck.

Im going to stick at 34 psi main, and per OZibis recommendation - gonna up the IRT to 54 today and will ride. No other changes unless warranted by on trail feel. 

Still kind of amazed at how much casting pressure there was and just how negatively effected the fork was, but so glad that the fork lived up to claims after. I literally had a Lyrik Ulti ready to order from my shop.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kamper11 said:


> Update; Got in a short ride btw rains. Reg trails - decent sampling of roots, rocks, ups, downs etc...
> 
> I may now keep it!! HA - it was tons better and the small bump was there, but a little light in IRT so will add some as I used like 95% of travel and that's a great deal more than I've ever used. Overall rode just a tad linear. My ride settings went up from previous note for the ride.
> 
> ...


I often find air pressure in the air side lowers of brand new forks. I think it's because they fill them at the factory before the fork has been cycled enough to spread lube around. So the seals can chatter a bit on the first few compressions.


----------



## nocturnal005 (Jun 23, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Rebound stack:
> 
> 13 x 6 x 0.1
> 9 x 6 x 0.1
> ...


Interestingly, for my MY21 fork this was the rebound shim stack I found inside (listed in order from closest to piston to furthest:

12 x 6 x 0.1
9 x 6 x 0.1
12 x 6 x 0.1
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
12 x 6 x 1.0

Seems to jive with CCS86's findings except for the OD of the large shims. The shims still appear to completely cover the piston ports though so not sure if functionally the stack would perform differently...Maybe they just ran out of 13mm shims that day?? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Having spent a fair number of rides on this fork now with it fixed, I have to admit, it's pretty damn good for essentially a stock fork. I have burnished the bushings and lubed everything up well. Otherwise it's how it (should have) came from the factory.

I'm comparison to the Lyrik that came off, this is nearly as good while being cheaper and lighter. Said Lyrik has ~$1000 extra into it for an Avy damper, Runt, low friction seals, and burnished bushings.

Main Difference: With the Mezzer you have to settle with a more compromised setup. I can get it to be as smooth as the Lyrik through the rough stuff by fully opening the HSC. I can get it to be (almost) as supportive as the Lyrik by adding two clicks of HSC. I can't however get the support and the smoothness at the same time. A quick turn of the HSC adapts to most conditions though. The one place where I feel it doesn't quite work is chunky, steep terrain where you want the support of the higher HSC but it's a bit harsh if the speeds pick up in this setting.

It's not bad on harshness though, just not quite as good. It's close enough that I don't intend on pulling the Mezzer off right now... But I also don't plan on selling the Lyrik...yet.

Between what Dougal said and my own look at the damper, I intent to try out a few things on the original damper I have sitting around.

1. Lap the face of the compression valve. On the compression side, this shouldn't have a major effect but it's just kind of like "blue printing" a motor, it just makes it work as intended, free of manufacturing variance.

2. Lap the faces of the mid valve. On the rebound side of the mid valve, this gets rid of the dish. I'll also adjust the stack to remove the 9mm shim acting as a spacer to keep the rest of the stack from being preloaded by the dish in the piston. This will soften the LSR up. I'm not real sure what it will do to HSR since it will likely make the upper part of the stack active sooner but removes the preload on the face shim. As I'm currently at full fast, I hope this speeds up rebound overall and brings me more towards the middle of the adjuster range. If not, I might have to change the shims a bit too.

3. Softer/longer HSC spring. The stock spring doesn't engage with the shim stack at all in the full open mode as it's shorter then the space it sits in. I found a spring that's about 1/2 the spring rate, but long enough to sit with almost zero preload while in the full open position. In the full closed position, it will put virtually the same preload on the shims as the stock middle position. This should mean I can get more LSC without as much HSC for a given HSC setting, other than in the full open position where it will have higher HSC.

4. I'm trying to find a mid valve check spring that's softer and offers more travel. The stock setup here is kind of odd. It's two wave washers stacked on each other that applies a clamping load to the shim. They are pretty stiff too so they act more like a clamp then a spring. The way mine came apart, they were in phase with each other. This would mean the shim flexes in the middle, a single full wave when flexed by the fluid. Seems like depending on how it is orientated against the piston, this could have a pretty big impact on how stiff it is. You can flip the "springs" out of phase and then the shim would have to bend in a double wave type shape. This would make it stiffer, but possibly less sensitive to how it's oriented relative to the piston.

Ideally, I'd like to find a conical spring that allows the shim to float out of the way and act more like a check valve. I haven't found anything so far though and might have to pull one out of some parts from other dampers.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> 4. I'm trying to find a mid valve check spring that's softer and offers more travel. The stock setup here is kind of odd. It's two wave washers stacked on each other that applies a clamping load to the shim. They are pretty stiff too so they act more like a clamp then a spring. The way mine came apart, they were in phase with each other. This would mean the shim flexes in the middle, a single full wave when flexed by the fluid. Seems like depending on how it is orientated against the piston, this could have a pretty big impact on how stiff it is. You can flip the "springs" out of phase and then the shim would have to bend in a double wave type shape. This would make it stiffer, but possibly less sensitive to how it's oriented relative to the piston.
> 
> Ideally, I'd like to find a conical spring that allows the shim to float out of the way and act more like a check valve. I haven't found anything so far though and might have to pull one out of some parts from other dampers.


Best I can do right now: Spirawave Spring Dorado (Manitou) | Shockcraft


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

[QUOTE="mike156, post: 15317977, member: 825474"

2. Lap the faces of the mid valve. On the rebound side of the mid valve, this gets rid of the dish. I'll also adjust the stack to remove the 9mm shim acting as a spacer to keep the rest of the stack from being preloaded by the dish in the piston. This will soften the LSR up. I'm not real sure what it will do to HSR since it will likely make the upper part of the stack active sooner but removes the preload on the face shim. As I'm currently at full fast, I hope this speeds up rebound overall and brings me more towards the middle of the adjuster range. If not, I might have to change the shims a bit too.

[/QUOTE]
I've polished the rebound side of the piston & run piston ,13,13,9 ,clamp shims.
I run From 97/66 -5 Lsc for rocks to 96/69 -7 Lsc for general trails , my rebound used to be +3-4 from open, now I run +6-8 depending on the main & terrain. Hsc is always open.
I'm not sure if it was the right move for me, I don't run faster than +5 clicks of rebound (from open) as the fork tops out a lot from beginning to mid stroke, end of stroke has more control but I can hear & feel it below that & it feels undamped.

Originally I had swarf blocking one of the piston holes when I was checking what rebound tune I had, I probably should have removed that & tested before going the next step of polishing the piston. Mine was a 13,9,13 stock so didn't have an extra shim to remove.

Can you put the 9 against the piston then the 13's to account for the dish so as to mimic removing the preload?, although did you have a spare piston from a warranty damper?, if so you can swap back easily enough if polishing doesn't work out.
But yes it does speed up the rebound quite a bit.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I've been looking through the Mezzer threads but I can't find it. if I recall there was an x-ring used in the early forks to seal the damper tube that got replaced with an o-ring in later forks? Seemed like it caused some initial stiction that wasn't necessarily a problem during riding. Is my memory accurate? 

If that's the case, can anyone tell me what size that o-ring is?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ungod said:


> I've been looking through the Mezzer threads but I can't find it. if I recall there was an x-ring used in the early forks to seal the damper tube that got replaced with an o-ring in later forks? Seemed like it caused some initial stiction that wasn't necessarily a problem during riding. Is my memory accurate?
> 
> If that's the case, can anyone tell me what size that o-ring is?


For initial stiction check the stanchion end-caps. If overtorqued they can expand the ends of the stanchions against the bushings. You can also downsize the main piston quad-ring at your own risk. The risk is the fork losing height (bypassing air pos to neg)

Damper shaft seal changed. But I can't remember the size right now. Probably a -110 but there is another size fractionally smaller ID which I can't recall the code of (not -109).


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Dougal said:


> For initial stiction check the stanchion end-caps. If overtorqued they can expand the ends of the stanchions against the bushings. You can also downsize the main piston quad-ring at your own risk. The risk is the fork losing height (bypassing air pos to neg)
> 
> Damper shaft seal changed. But I can't remember the size right now. Probably a -110 but there is another size fractionally smaller ID which I can't recall the code of (not -109).


Thanks, as you probably guessed I feel like I have some excess initial stiction right now. Still feels great on the trail but does seem to get "stuck" at times. Probably those end-caps as I definitely used the forearm torque wrench on those. I'll see if I can figure out that damper shaft seal as well, couldn't hurt...


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Best I can do right now: Spirawave Spring Dorado (Manitou) | Shockcraft


Thanks Dougal, $22 in shipping though for a $3 part is killing my brain to justify. I might have to peak around to see what else you have to justify the shipping cost.



cashews said:


> I've polished the rebound side of the piston & run piston ,13,13,9 ,clamp shims...my rebound used to be +3-4 from open, now I run +6-8 depending on the main & terrain...
> 
> Can you put the 9 against the piston then the 13's to account for the dish so as to mimic removing the preload?, although did you have a spare piston from a warranty damper?, if so you can swap back easily enough if polishing doesn't work out.
> But yes it does speed up the rebound quite a bit.


Thanks for the info. Did you notice any balance change on LSR vs HSR?

My rear shock is kind of controlling the rebound up front right now. To keep the rear from packing, I have to run rebound pretty open. To make the bike not want to buck, I have to run the front open too. I haven't noticed any top out noise, but it's definitely low on rebound damping and it's very "lively."

I'm hoping it will speed up the HSR enough that I can close up the adjuster to lower LSR. I'm definitely not against more rebound damping but until I revalve the rear shock, I gotta work around it's rebound damping.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> I'm hoping it will speed up the HSR enough that I can close up the adjuster to lower LSR. I'm definitely not against more rebound damping but until I revalve the rear shock, I gotta work around it's rebound damping.


It seems to me that LSR is the dominant force for balancing the bike leaving bigger jumps, since you still have your full weight on the shock (plus some extra inertial force). HSR should control the rebound weight once the rear tire leaves the ground. Obviously there is some crossover/interplay between the circuits.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Well as much as I hate to say anything to puff up Dougie's ego... this fork is pretty fkn good! I had to make an emergency purchase due to an apparently unserviceable Lyrik RC2 damper part giving out right before a 10 day SW Tour. Wasn't disappointed. As much as I was fine with the Lyrik when new, the extra support on some of the steep chunky Moab tech was welcome. Today's first ride back at home trails had any concerns resolved.

The higher ride height coupled with what I believe is a longer A/C was a big change, but pulling a 10mm spacer from under the stem and firming up the rear a tad seemed to get the weight bias right. Despite being a bit firmer all around, my delicate little hands aren't paying for it.

Another setup data point using two different GIYO dial pumps, if you guys are still doing that...

170MM 200lbs IRT-78 Main-58 HSC-3 LSC-3 R-5 (I think)


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

Just wanted to say thank you to all that have contributed to and went through the "growing pains" on the Mezzer Pro. I recently was able to acquire a fork with the correct updated lowers and features for a '21 Stumpjumper Comp. Due to the great set up spreadsheet created and documented by everyone, I have a good starting point to start fine tuning my set up. Now just to decide on adding a Mara inline or Pro for the rear shock.

My initial setup data point using a Giyo digital pump is...

'21 Stumpjumper Comp Carbon S4
165lb rider
140mm travel
IRT - 82
Main - 56.5
HSC - 3
LSC - 4
Rebound - 7


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

weverb said:


> Just wanted to say thank you to all that have contributed to and went through the "growing pains" on the Mezzer Pro. I recently was able to acquire a fork with the correct updated lowers and features for a '21 Stumpjumper Comp. Due to the great set up spreadsheet created and documented by everyone, I have a good starting point to start fine tuning my set up. Now just to decide on adding a Mara inline or Pro for the rear shock.
> 
> My initial setup data point using a Giyo digital pump is...
> 
> ...


I'll make an educated guess now and say your pressures are too high unless you like a VERY firm fork.


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

OzIbis said:


> I'll make an educated guess now and say your pressures are too high unless you like a VERY firm fork.


Don't forget I am only using 140mm travel (which requires higher pressures than 160-180mm travel) and I am actually using lower pressures than the other 165lb/140mm user (lagranger) on the spreadsheet. Those pressures put me at ~20% sag but I am going to start trying lower pressures today.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

weverb said:


> Don't forget I am only using 140mm travel (which requires higher pressures than 160-180mm travel) and I am actually using lower pressures than the other 165lb/140mm user (lagranger) on the spreadsheet. Those pressures put me at ~20% sag but I am going to start trying lower pressures today.


I'm around the same pressures with the same travel but I have 40lbs on you. Maybe you're sending big jumps and drops but if not, I would drop your pressures for better small bump and then dial in LSC as needed to get the fork to stand up in corners and low speed tech.


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

GiddyHitch said:


> I'm around the same pressures with the same travel but I have 40lbs on you. Maybe you're sending big jumps and drops but if not, I would drop your pressures for better small bump and then dial in LSC as needed to get the fork to stand up in corners and low speed tech.


Jumps and drops are not that big. I just did my initial setup with what the spreadsheet calculated. I have already lowered the main down to 52psi to try today. Going to go try and ride a rougher section with more roots and rocks today. Dougal's free calculator estimated 80 for IRT and 40 for main. I am sure I will end up some where in-between.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

weverb said:


> Just wanted to say thank you to all that have contributed to and went through the "growing pains" on the Mezzer Pro. I recently was able to acquire a fork with the correct updated lowers and features for a '21 Stumpjumper Comp. Due to the great set up spreadsheet created and documented by everyone, I have a good starting point to start fine tuning my set up. Now just to decide on adding a Mara inline or Pro for the rear shock.
> 
> My initial setup data point using a Giyo digital pump is...
> 
> ...


Sounds like a great starting point and those pressures would be close to ideal.



GiddyHitch said:


> I'm around the same pressures with the same travel but I have 40lbs on you. Maybe you're sending big jumps and drops but if not, I would drop your pressures for better small bump and then dial in LSC as needed to get the fork to stand up in corners and low speed tech.


I've got 70/100psi @200lbs on a 140 travel Phantom and if anything it's a little soft. Have you tried more psi?


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

Just finished a ride and lowered it to 80 - IRT and 50 - Main. It felt smoother the faster that I went (Ricky Bobby mode). Used just a little over 1/2 of the travel on rooty and rocky sections. I then tried "popping" off a very small (maybe 1') drop. At a LSC setting of 4 it seemed like I wasn't getting much of a "pop" off the lip. I tried lowering the LSC to 2 and that seemed better or maybe I was just trying harder. I purposely landed flat and pretty hard and would use about 3/4 of travel. Does this seem about right?


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

springs said:


> I've got 70/100psi @200lbs on a 140 travel Phantom and if anything it's a little soft. Have you tried more psi?


That's a Banshee Phantom and you're blowing through the travel too easily? Yeah, I started off at 69/100 because that's what the spreadsheet calculator spit out but found that way too stiff. Going lower was definitely better. Tracks well with a buddy with the same setup and we calibrated across three different shock pumps. That being said, I'm not jumping/dropping anything over 3ft and not going faster than 25mph so it's entirely possible that you're just pushing the fork much harder than me.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

weverb said:


> Don't forget I am only using 140mm travel (which requires higher pressures than 160-180mm travel) and I am actually using lower pressures than the other 165lb/140mm user (lagranger) on the spreadsheet. Those pressures put me at ~20% sag but I am going to start trying lower pressures today.


Yeah I read you were using 140mm travel but on the set up guide the difference between 140mm and 160mm at the same rider weight is around 10% and in general I find the air pressures in the set up guide are on the high side. Do some rides and testing but I will be surprised if you don't end up finding it better at lower pressures than that and using some LSC for support. I'm just trying to stop you getting caught up too much with your head in the set up guide. I can't speak for the heavier guys using the fork but for lighter guys like you and me (I'm 160lb) I think in general the air pressures recommended are on the high side and considering how much difference 2 psi makes to this fork they are high by a decent amount. Anyway see how you go.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

OzIbis said:


> I'll make an educated guess now and say your pressures are too high unless you like a VERY firm fork.


I wouldn't call that "very firm". That's -10 psi IRT and -5.5 psi main from the Manitou guide.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

OzIbis said:


> Yeah I read you were using 140mm travel but on the set up guide the difference between 140mm and 160mm at the same rider weight is around 10% and in general I find the air pressures in the set up guide are on the high side. Do some rides and testing but I will be surprised if you don't end up finding it better at lower pressures than that and using some LSC for support. I'm just trying to stop you getting caught up too much with your head in the set up guide. I can't speak for the heavier guys using the fork but for lighter guys like you and me (I'm 160lb) I think in general the air pressures recommended are on the high side and considering how much difference 2 psi makes to this fork they are high by a decent amount. Anyway see how you go.


Plus I am not using the guide. I am using CCS86's spreadsheet from the very first post in this thread. I entered in 165lbs and 140mm on the second tab and it tells me to use 83.8 for IRT and 56 Main as a starting point. In addition, when I read the Manitou guide it says to "REDUCE IRT -10 PSI [-0.7 BAR] FOR TRAIL APPLICATION." So that makes the guide IRT 90-10=80 and Main 60-10=50 as a starting point. Basically right where I am now.

So, with it feeling very smooth the faster I go, I think that's telling me I am very close with the pressures. Thoughts?

What does everyone think about my previous comments about the LSC setting and "popping" off jumps/lips/drops?

Again, I appreciate everyone's input cause I think you all got me this close to start.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I don't think LSC has much impact on that area of feel. Rebound much more so. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> I don't think LSC has much impact on that area of feel. Rebound much more so.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Thanks for the feedback. So you think I should lower the rebound from 7 to like 5?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

weverb said:


> Thanks for the feedback. So you think I should lower the rebound from 7 to like 5?


It's always good to quote clickers from the position you start counting. Ie, "5 out from closed", "3 in from open".

I run my rebound either wide open, or one click in. Not only is it much more lively, but it recovers better for successive bumps, and has better mid-corner grip.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> It's always good to quote clickers from the position you start counting. Ie, "5 out"
> 
> I run my rebound either wide open, or one click in. Not only is it much more lively, but it recovers better for successive bumps, and has better mid-corner grip.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Ok thanks for the information. I am currently 7 clicks out from closed. So I guess thats equal to 3 clicks out from open. I will try something fewer clicks out from open. Planning another ride later today.

Where do you have your LSC and HSC settings? I have my HSC 3 click out from closed and LSC 2 clicks out from closed.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

weverb said:


> Ok thanks for the information. I am currently 7 clicks out from closed. So I guess thats equal to 3 clicks out from open. I will try something fewer clicks out from open. Planning another ride later today.
> 
> Where do you have your LSC and HSC settings? I have my HSC 3 click out from closed and LSC 2 clicks out from closed.


I run the HSC wide open, and the LSC 1 - 3 clicks in.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> I run the HSC wide open, and the LSC 1 - 3 clicks in.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


LSC 1-3 clicks in from open?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Yes. 

Hopefully, we can all agree that "clicks in" is from open, and "clicks out" is from closed.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Yes.
> 
> Hopefully, we can all agree that "clicks in" is from open, and "clicks out" is from closed.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Thanks again for all your help and clarification. Sometimes I was getting people's settings confused.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

mike156 said:


> Thanks Dougal, $22 in shipping though for a $3 part is killing my brain to justify. I might have to peak around to see what else you have to justify the shipping cost.
> 
> Thanks for the info. Did you notice any balance change on LSR vs HSR?
> 
> ...


I can only go off gut feel but i think they've spread apart a bit more ( a dyno may probably disagree) I think the stock piston was better in that regard for me at my pressures, if I had the opportunity to ride them side by side I may even disagree with myself. 
I'd like to make the rebound from deeper in the stroke faster but slow down the beginning stroke a bit more, i'd be interested in trying a shim combo that may achieve it, I'm open to suggestions.

I'm running my rebound full fast on the rear shock (stock RS reactive, '19 remedy), it doesn't feel as fast as my last bike (2010 commencql meta, MM tune rp2), I'm on flat pedals so I like the rebound to help with keeping my feet in place.
The bike overall usually feels balanced, a slight bucking sensation sometimes on certain terrain but I'm used to it.


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

Just wanted to give another update (140mm/165lbs). Have two trail rides on the following settings.

Sag - 31mm (~22%)
Travel Used - 91mm (~65%)
IRT - 73.5 psi
Main - 46.5 psi
HSC - Open
LSC - 4 clicks out from closed
Rebound - 1 click in from open

Still need to test on a jump/drop line.


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

So this is interesting. Went to do a 25 hour service and just add oil to the lowers because the fork was feeling a bit harsh. Ended up draining the oil bath. There was about 3cc-5cc in each leg and the foam rings were dry. Replaced with 20cc / leg (used the Manitou stuff) and now the fork is incredibly supple, perhaps a bit better new. Already started to increase my pressures because some of the harshness is gone. 

Does beg the question where the oil goes. I notice that the foot bolts don't really tighten much past hand tight without spinning the damper or air "strut". Possible that the fork is leaking?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Headoc said:


> So this is interesting. Went to do a 25 hour service and just add oil to the lowers because the fork was feeling a bit harsh. Ended up draining the oil bath. There was about 3cc-5cc in each leg and the foam rings were dry. Replaced with 20cc / leg (used the Manitou stuff) and now the fork is incredibly supple, perhaps a bit better new. Already started to increase my pressures because some of the harshness is gone.
> 
> Does beg the question where the oil goes. I notice that the foot bolts don't really tighten much past hand tight without spinning the damper or air "strut". Possible that the fork is leaking?


Low friction seals lose oil. That's the reason our maintenance intervals are a lot sooner than they were a decade ago.
Every pump the fork seals leave a sheen of oil on the stanchions, over thousands of strokes that's several cc gone.


----------



## jakalwil (Nov 24, 2020)

Did my first service today and found this little guy split/with multiple cracks all around, hanging on by a thread. What might've caused it, a hard bottom out? Is it better to leave it hanging till I can track down a service kit or pop it out so that it doesn't break free inside?


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

jakalwil said:


> Did my first service today and found this little guy split/with multiple cracks all around, hanging on by a thread. What might've caused it, a hard bottom out? Is it better to leave it hanging till I can track down a service kit or pop it out so that it doesn't break free inside?
> View attachment 1934420


That's a top out bumper. You could probably take one off a spare Pike air shaft if you have one


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jakalwil said:


> Did my first service today and found this little guy split/with multiple cracks all around, hanging on by a thread. What might've caused it, a hard bottom out? Is it better to leave it hanging till I can track down a service kit or pop it out so that it doesn't break free inside?


I've never seen one of those eaten like that. Does your negative chamber work or is it empty?

A stack of o-rings would be a good temporary solution.


----------



## jakalwil (Nov 24, 2020)

Dougal said:


> I've never seen one of those eaten like that. Does your negative chamber work or is it empty?
> 
> A stack of o-rings would be a good temporary solution.


Everything seems to work normal, just there's a clunking noise when lifting the front wheel now


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

That's from top out damage, not bottom out. Low negative spring pressure relative to the positive spring would crush that bumper.

As for only having a few CCs of oil in the lowers, it could be a couple things.
Could have been underfilled to begin with.
Could be a decent film over the surfaces of the lowers and the correct amount is there.
Could be getting trapped in the upper leg on the damper side.
Could be getting pushed into the seal head on deep compressions.


----------



## vukatamqn (Jul 21, 2012)

Hi, Mezzers!
Sorry for my bad english.
Last month I bought 27.5" 170mm 44mm offset version. Lowered travel to 140mm to work with my 26" DJ frame.
Now I have a question for future AM/enduro frame: can I increase travel to 180mm or am I limited to 170mm?
And another question: lowering travel was performed from Hayes dealer. When to go to next service time? Sorry if you asked before!
My opinion for the fork is: for first time with air fork it's wonderfull. Last one was Manitou Circus Expert. I am progressive user in real MTB.


----------



## jakalwil (Nov 24, 2020)

mike156 said:


> That's from top out damage, not bottom out. Low negative spring pressure relative to the positive spring would crush that bumper.


Any idea how that could have happened at random? No big hits recently or crashes on my end. I do also always thread the pump fully on when changing pressures so I don't think that would be the cause, unless something's up with the valve


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

vukatamqn said:


> Hi, Mezzers!
> Sorry for my bad english.
> Last month I bought 27.5" 170mm 44mm offset version. Lowered travel to 140mm to work with my 26" DJ frame.
> Now I have a question for future AM/enduro frame: can I increase travel to 180mm or am I limited to 170mm?
> ...


Easy to increase/decrease travel. It uses 10mm clip-in spacers. Manuals here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/faux-ifp-valve-stem-kit-shockcraft.html



jakalwil said:


> Any idea how that could have happened at random? No big hits recently or crashes on my end. I do also always thread the pump fully on when changing pressures so I don't think that would be the cause, unless something's up with the valve


It could have been a bad rubber moulding. Those bumpers are usually extremely tough, worst I've seen before is the tiny ears worn off them.


----------



## jakalwil (Nov 24, 2020)

Dougal said:


> It could have been a bad rubber moulding. Those bumpers are usually extremely tough, worst I've seen before is the tiny ears worn off them.


That must be the case. Aside from the big split pictured, there are what look like dry rot cracks all around. Everything was lubed and plenty of oil in the lowers though.

Manitou said they found one lying around and are sending it my way. Which side of the shaft is easier to disassemble so I can slip the new bumper on?

Until it arrives, I've squished the fork down ~10mm with the pump installed to create an air cushion and prevent top-out slaps. Do you think that might cause any other issues with some temporary light trail riding?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jakalwil said:


> That must be the case. Aside from the big split pictured, there are what look like dry rot cracks all around. Everything was lubed and plenty of oil in the lowers though.
> 
> Manitou said they found one lying around and are sending it my way. Which side of the shaft is easier to disassemble so I can slip the new bumper on?
> 
> Until it arrives, I've squished the fork down ~10mm with the pump installed to create an air cushion and prevent top-out slaps. Do you think that might cause any other issues with some temporary light trail riding?


No issues at all riding it with pneumatic top-out like that. As long as it doesn't top-out knock you're good.

Taking the foot off the shaft is the only way I think. Piston is pinned on. You'll need 10mm shaft clamps.


----------



## smearin (May 3, 2021)

Ahh! Just changed the travel on my new Mezzer Pro and the rebound knob won't move now?
What have I done? Is it an easy fix, or did I done break something??


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Any recommendations for stack to try in order to get faster mid speed rebound. I'm thinking of removing preload by swapping first 2 shims. Anyone try this? I'm worried it'll go too far.

Fork overall feels great but I want to be able to run my LSR slower to match storia in the rear.


9 x 6 x 0.1 - first two swap to remove preload
13 x 6 x 0.1 - swap
13 x 6 x 0.1
13 x 6 x 0.1 ← Remove for MY21 tune
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
12 x 6 x 1.0

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

croakies said:


> Any recommendations for stack to try in order to get faster mid speed rebound. I'm thinking of removing preload by swapping first 2 shims. Anyone try this? I'm worried it'll go too far.
> 
> Fork overall feels great but I want to be able to run my LSR slower to match storia in the rear.
> 
> ...


Why not start by removing one of the 13x0.1's?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Why not start by removing one of the 13x0.1's?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Speaking completely from intuition so could be wrong here. Since I'm trying to get lighter midspeed, reducing preload would more directly affect this vs removing one of the 13 which would make whole stack lighter including High speed.

In other words trying to inch towards a more linear curve instead of digressive (comparatively, I would not call Mezzers stock stack digressive).

Does that make any sense or am I off base?

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Swapping shims like I said won't work. Putting spacer against piston lifts the second shim too far off the piston and it won't seal ports.

Ended up just removing second 13mm shim. Driveway test feels good.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

nocturnal005 said:


> Interestingly, for my MY21 fork this was the rebound shim stack I found inside (listed in order from closest to piston to furthest:
> 
> 12 x 6 x 0.1
> 9 x 6 x 0.1
> ...


I'm digging into my second mezzer which is my21 and also have 12mm of shims. I did not check OD of the ones on my older mezzer tho, maybe they are all 12?

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## jakalwil (Nov 24, 2020)

Got this new top-out bumper just in the nick of time. After an extra few light days of trail riding, even with overloading the negative spring as a pneumatic top-out, the stock bumper had complete blown out and came off the shaft. Here's the poor bugger side by side with the new one.

Thanks @Dougal and others for helping me get this sorted out. I suspect the stock bumper was crumpled from the start because the fork feels smoother than ever - during long rides it had a slight sting to the rebound before, now it's butter.


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

A question to satify my curiosity that I am sure has been answered but I cant find it.

If you change the travel via the air valve method does that affect performance? Is it essentially the same as using the clips?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Seniorbrucio said:


> A question to satify my curiosity that I am sure has been answered but I cant find it.
> 
> If you change the travel via the air valve method does that affect performance? Is it essentially the same as using the clips?


It definitely won't be / feel the same.

The clips act as negative chamber volume spacers. Plus, there would be a different feel from a pneumatic top out location, versus a hard stop top-out. Pressure is equalized at that hard stop, not force. So, there is still some top out force.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> It definitely won't be / feel the same.
> 
> The clips act as negative chamber volume spacers. Plus, there would be a different feel from a pneumatic top out location, versus a hard stop top-out. Pressure is equalized at that hard stop, not force. So, there is still some top out force.


Where does the extra force come from? damper?


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> It definitely won't be / feel the same.
> 
> The clips act as negative chamber volume spacers. Plus, there would be a different feel from a pneumatic top out location, versus a hard stop top-out. Pressure is equalized at that hard stop, not force. So, there is still some top out force.


Thanks for the quick reply mate.

I guess it might be useful to test travel lengths before committing to one and setting it with the clips.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

Seniorbrucio said:


> Thanks for the quick reply mate.
> 
> I guess it might be useful to test travel lengths before committing to one and setting it with the clips.


For the first 5 months I had my Mezzer Pro I used the air valve method to reduce the travel to 170mm, then did a lowers service and added one set of clips.
I've been riding that for 2months, same setting and I can't tell the difference. 
If you were going for more travel reduction you might notice a difference.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

spo0n said:


> Where does the extra force come from? damper?


The different amounts of area for the pressures to act on. The main chamber has a larger area (because the air shaft is subtracted from the negative side), so for equal pressures, the main still generates more force.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

I recently bought a Mezzer Pro 29". I took it to a shop to have the travel changed to 140mm(will be doing it myself next time). I set up the air pressures based off of what I was previously running my 160mm 27.5 Mezzer at taking into account that it's a 140mm. I've played around with the pressures a bit and it just doesn't feel as plush as my previous fork and I'm running some low pressures. On trails where I would previously use 95% travel, I'm using 85%. Is the feel of the 140mm fork that different on did the shop mess something up when changing the travel?

27.5 - 160mm - 39/61 open, open
29 - 140mm - current 35/55, I've tried 43/67 (starting point) and 39/61 as well. LSC/HSC open

I also ran the 27.5" at 4 clicks from closed on rebound. On the 29", I'm running 3 clicks from closed on rebound.

Riding weight is 150lbs.

Any ideas? My previous fork was the best I've ever ridden.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Your pressures sound very low to me.

I'd make sure the IRT is properly greased to start with and also that with the pump connected you can push the fork to full bottom out without too much effort.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

CCS86 said:


> Your pressures sound very low to me.
> 
> I'd make sure the IRT is properly greased to start with and also that with the pump connected you can push the fork to full bottom out without too much effort.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


To IRT or main? Just connect it and try to push through the travel?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Penny said:


> To IRT or main? Just connect it and try to push through the travel?


To the main, and yes.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

Shouldn't Penny also try his LSC a few clicks in from open? Doesn't too much LSC equate to "harshness" versus "plush"? Sorry as I am still learning the finer details of the Mezzer Pro.

Also, according to Dougal's free spring rate calculator, 35/55 is equal to a 35 lb/in spring rate. At 140mm but 165lbs his calculator told me to try 40/80 for a 40 lb/in rate.


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

CCS86 said:


> Your pressures sound very low to me.
> 
> I'd make sure the IRT is properly greased to start with and also that with the pump connected you can push the fork to full bottom out without too much effort.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I decided to reset the air pressures. Took them both down to 0. Could get full travel. Aired them back up properly. Took them to 43/67, like I started with the first time. Night and day difference in the garage. I'll test it on the trail tonight.

Think the mechanic aired them up in the wrong order?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Penny said:


> I decided to reset the air pressures. Took them both down to 0. Could get full travel. Aired them back up properly. Took them to 43/67, like I started with the first time. Night and day difference in the garage. I'll test it on the trail tonight.
> 
> Think the mechanic aired them up in the wrong order?


Possibly. Try less rebound also. Mezzer is different in that low speed rebound that feels way too fast bouncing in a parking lot is too slow on the trail. I started at 3 out and kept backing it out until 7 out and I am 200 pounds. It felt ok at 3 out, but got plusher and better as I took it out with no loss of traction (usually what happens with too little lsr), until 8 out.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Penny said:


> I decided to reset the air pressures. Took them both down to 0. Could get full travel. Aired them back up properly. Took them to 43/67, like I started with the first time. Night and day difference in the garage. I'll test it on the trail tonight.
> 
> Think the mechanic aired them up in the wrong order?


Could have been inflated whilst slightly sagged which can effect suppleness. Important to have the front unweighted when inflating.
Glad you seem to have it sorted.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Penny said:


> I recently bought a Mezzer Pro 29". I took it to a shop to have the travel changed to 140mm(will be doing it myself next time). I set up the air pressures based off of what I was previously running my 160mm 27.5 Mezzer at taking into account that it's a 140mm. I've played around with the pressures a bit and it just doesn't feel as plush as my previous fork and I'm running some low pressures. On trails where I would previously use 95% travel, I'm using 85%. Is the feel of the 140mm fork that different on did the shop mess something up when changing the travel?
> 
> 27.5 - 160mm - 39/61 open, open
> 29 - 140mm - current 35/55, I've tried 43/67 (starting point) and 39/61 as well. LSC/HSC open
> ...


Are you using the same pump on both forks? Pumps can easily read 5psi different. Dunno what the shop has done but if it's smooth it should be good.



weverb said:


> Also, according to Dougal's free spring rate calculator, 35/55 is equal to a 35 lb/in spring rate. At 140mm but 165lbs his calculator told me to try 40/80 for a 40 lb/in rate.


What calculator is that? The free "simple bike calculator" simply takes rider weight to give a ballpark fork spring-rate. 
I haven't got anything that calculates fork air pressure spring-rates but I have listed combos in several threads here on MTBR.


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

Dougal said:


> What calculator is that? The free "simple bike calculator" simply takes rider weight to give a ballpark fork spring-rate.
> I haven't got anything that calculates fork air pressure spring-rates but I have listed combos in several threads here on MTBR.


Yeah it's the result from your "simple" combined with the combos you have listed.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

springs said:


> Could have been inflated whilst slightly sagged which can effect suppleness. Important to have the front unweighted when inflating.
> Glad you seem to have it sorted.


I weigh just a bit more than you and am running 35/55 psi with great results, although I'm also running 170 mm travel. Also, at your weight much less rebound damping should help as was suggested above.


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

How does this fork work for light riders (140 lbs), will it work fine with the factory tune, or need something modified? I would be running it at 160 mm. Debating a mezzer, a coil conversion for my DVO diamond when available, or a z1 coil.


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Ripbro said:


> How does this fork work for light riders (140 lbs), will it work fine with the factory tune, or need something modified? I would be running it at 160 mm. Debating a mezzer, a coil conversion for my DVO diamond when available, or a z1 coil.


I'm 145lbs and it works great for me. I've tried a Lyrik, RCT3, RC2, Avy, MRP Air and Coil, Fox 36 Grip 2 and the Mezzer is my favorite.


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Curveball said:


> I weigh just a bit more than you and am running 35/55 psi with great results, although I'm also running 170 mm travel. Also, at your weight much less rebound damping should help as was suggested above.


I rode it at 43/69 last night and it worked great. Next up is playing around with the rebound.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> The different amounts of area for the pressures to act on. The main chamber has a larger area (because the air shaft is subtracted from the negative side), so for equal pressures, the main still generates more force.


FWIW, at 65psi main pressure, the difference in force is 8lbs. You probably won't feel that.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> FWIW, at 65psi main pressure, the difference in force is 8lbs. You probably won't feel that.


If we are talking strictly about pushing down on the fork, you could absolutely feel an 8 lb difference in breakaway force.

I'm not talking about trail feel here. I was just explaining why there is top-out force with equalized air pressures.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Ripbro said:


> How does this fork work for light riders (140 lbs), will it work fine with the factory tune, or need something modified? I would be running it at 160 mm. Debating a mezzer, a coil conversion for my DVO diamond when available, or a z1 coil.


You will need to do the shim stack mod on the compression stack. I'm 20 lbs heavier than you and running 160mm and I replaced the 17.5mm shim with a 12mm and it's magic. You will most likely need to remove the 17.5mm shim altogether and i recon it will be pretty close to the money. It's a beautiful fork and the quality of the damping is excellent. On top of that you get the hydraulic bottom out bumper. I highly recommend you go down the path of the Mezzer.


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Cary said:


> Possibly. Try less rebound also. Mezzer is different in that low speed rebound that feels way too fast bouncing in a parking lot is too slow on the trail. I started at 3 out and kept backing it out until 7 out and I am 200 pounds. It felt ok at 3 out, but got plusher and better as I took it out with no loss of traction (usually what happens with too little lsr), until 8 out.


Tried it at 8 and 9 out today. Felt great! I'll keep playing around.

Pressures are still 43/69 at 140mm.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

I picked up a used Mezzer Pro and got my first real ride on it yesterday overall I'm super impressed. Using the spreadsheet from the earliest of posts on this thread I went with IRT - 75 PSI and Main - 47. I opened up all the dials and cranked away. This fork is replacing a 2021 Fox36 Grip2. The fork is noticeably stiffer, has better midstroke, way harder to bottom out, and most importantly it doesn't creak like a MoFo. I would like some advice on setup though. 

For reference this fork is loaded up on an Ibis RipmoV1 with -1 angleset and is set to 160mm travel. Rider weight is around 155-160 lbs. I'm in the Boston area and ride a ton of punchy slower tech. I run my suspension on the medium side, but with spacers to prevent bottom out. I had the 36 dialed in pretty well and settled on 3 spacers and all the dials wide open. My biggest complaint with that fork is the CSU creaking and occasional harsh bottom out. 

So, my concern with the Mezzer is having all the dials wide open. I don't like not having any tune-ability. Based on 1 ride I felt like it could be a little plusher early on. On the slow tech I was getting bounced around a bit. For the majority of the ride I noticed I had about an inch of travel not being used on the fork. I landed as heavy as I could on the fork on a drop to see what would happen and there was about 1/2 inch still available. So, I probably could go with a little less bottom out. I plan on doing the shim mod at some point, but I'd like to see what I can do with tuning the air volume. Before randomly messing with the air volumes I wanted to get some advice. My thought was to drop both by a couple PSI and see what happens. Thoughts?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I would try 44/74 and pull out the IRT assembly to make sure it is well greased.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

IRT fully greased. Pressure dropped to 44-ish/74-ish (analog shock pump). Quick lunch time peddle and big smiles. That did the trick. I ended up adding in 2 clicks HSC/LSC/Rebound and it feels fantastic! Thanks for the help.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

woodyak said:


> IRT fully greased. Pressure dropped to 44-ish/74-ish (analog shock pump). Quick lunch time peddle and big smiles. That did the trick. I ended up adding in 2 clicks HSC/LSC/Rebound and it feels fantastic! Thanks for the help.


Keep in mind, that since this fork is pretty sensitive to pressure, having an accurate pump is key. The Rockshox digital 300psi has served me well.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## jakalwil (Nov 24, 2020)

woodyak said:


> IRT fully greased. Pressure dropped to 44-ish/74-ish (analog shock pump). Quick lunch time peddle and big smiles. That did the trick. I ended up adding in 2 clicks HSC/LSC/Rebound and it feels fantastic! Thanks for the help.


If your experience is similar to mine, you can probably dial the IRT even further if you're looking for more plushness. I'm only 5 pounds lighter and have been running 42/62 psi with great results.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

woodyak said:


> I picked up a used Mezzer Pro and got my first real ride on it yesterday overall I'm super impressed. Using the spreadsheet from the earliest of posts on this thread I went with IRT - 75 PSI and Main - 47. I opened up all the dials and cranked away. This fork is replacing a 2021 Fox36 Grip2. The fork is noticeably stiffer, has better midstroke, way harder to bottom out, and most importantly it doesn't creak like a MoFo. I would like some advice on setup though.
> 
> For reference this fork is loaded up on an Ibis RipmoV1 with -1 angleset and is set to 160mm travel. Rider weight is around 155-160 lbs. I'm in the Boston area and ride a ton of punchy slower tech. I run my suspension on the medium side, but with spacers to prevent bottom out. I had the 36 dialed in pretty well and settled on 3 spacers and all the dials wide open. My biggest complaint with that fork is the CSU creaking and occasional harsh bottom out.
> 
> So, my concern with the Mezzer is having all the dials wide open. I don't like not having any tune-ability. Based on 1 ride I felt like it could be a little plusher early on. On the slow tech I was getting bounced around a bit. For the majority of the ride I noticed I had about an inch of travel not being used on the fork. I landed as heavy as I could on the fork on a drop to see what would happen and there was about 1/2 inch still available. So, I probably could go with a little less bottom out. I plan on doing the shim mod at some point, but I'd like to see what I can do with tuning the air volume. Before randomly messing with the air volumes I wanted to get some advice. My thought was to drop both by a couple PSI and see what happens. Thoughts?


I'm running one on a Ripmo V2. I'm 73kg (160lb) ready to ride. Where I ride the most is pretty fast with plenty of chunky sections with some slower tech as well. 
Here is my set up after replacing the 17.5mm shim with a 12mm and 160mm travel. 
42 psi main
62 psi IRT
LSC 3 clicks in from open
HSC open
Rebound 6 clicks from fully closed. 
I found set like this the fork never bottoms that you can feel but uses all its travel on only the biggest hits eg 5-6 foot drop to flat or a case out. Virtually never gets deflected. Is very supportive with a nice plush feel without feeling like you are riding a sponge. I can't really fault it in any way. It's wicked.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

woodyak said:


> IRT fully greased. Pressure dropped to 44-ish/74-ish (analog shock pump). Quick lunch time peddle and big smiles. That did the trick. I ended up adding in 2 clicks HSC/LSC/Rebound and it feels fantastic! Thanks for the help.


I weigh about the same and also ride steep tech. I'm at 35/55 for pressure, one click of HSC, and five clicks of LSC without any shim mods. It's been working great so far. I guess don't be afraid to really drop the pressures if you feel any harshness.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Keep in mind, that since this fork is pretty sensitive to pressure, having an accurate pump is key. The Rockshox digital 300psi has served me well.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Until last month all of my pumps were pretty good. Almost all within 3%.

Then one that used to be accurate is now reading 12% low at 100psi. No idea why, no external damage.


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

So, a friend wants to sell me a never been used new Mezzer pro. Box labeled 2019/6/25 date of manufacture.
The box dos not have the blue dot on it. 
Will manitou send me the new lowers no questions asked? Do I just use it & see how it holds up?
I've ridden it a few times, seems to work well, other than a loud pop when i dropped both air chambers & pulled down on the lowers. 
Also, oddly its labeled 160 travel & now 170mm after above episode. 
I like the fork, but in a bit of a quandary. 

Any advice very appreciated, thanks


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kneecap said:


> So, a friend wants to sell me a never been used new Mezzer pro. Box labeled 2019/6/25 date of manufacture.
> The box dos not have the blue dot on it.
> Will manitou send me the new lowers no questions asked? Do I just use it & see how it holds up?
> I've ridden it a few times, seems to work well, other than a loud pop when i dropped both air chambers & pulled down on the lowers.
> ...


Check the bottom-out bumpers. They'll tell you if it's been updated. Early bumpers were free to float, later ones were locked in place.
If the fork needs new lowers and your friend is the purchaser, he should get in contact with Hayes


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

I believe this has been asked before (having trouble finding anything though) , but has anyone experimented with “pre- loading” the fork a bit with pressurizing as to have the “suck down”? Example would be to have a dynamic sag/ride height for a 170mm fork comparable to a 150mm fork, with the extra 20mm already “sucked down “

just curious if there is any downside here? The non-lazy solution would be to swap travel to 150mm, but I am going to be testing this fork on a few bikes back to back that have different fork lengths stock and would like to avoid opening it until I decide where the mezzer belongs.


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> It definitely won't be / feel the same.
> 
> The clips act as negative chamber volume spacers. Plus, there would be a different feel from a pneumatic top out location, versus a hard stop top-out. Pressure is equalized at that hard stop, not force. So, there is still some top out force.





hugelick said:


> For the first 5 months I had my Mezzer Pro I used the air valve method to reduce the travel to 170mm, then did a lowers service and added one set of clips.
> I've been riding that for 2months, same setting and I can't tell the difference.
> If you were going for more travel reduction you might notice a difference.





jcmonty said:


> I believe this has been asked before (having trouble finding anything though) , but has anyone experimented with "pre- loading" the fork a bit with pressurizing as to have the "suck down"? Example would be to have a dynamic sag/ride height for a 170mm fork comparable to a 150mm fork, with the extra 20mm already "sucked down "
> 
> just curious if there is any downside here? The non-lazy solution would be to swap travel to 150mm, but I am going to be testing this fork on a few bikes back to back that have different fork lengths stock and would like to avoid opening it until I decide where the mezzer belongs.


Go back a page.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Seniorbrucio said:


> Go back a page.


Wow &#8230; thanks! My reference was from months ago but guess I should have skimmed recent discussions


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

I may just try running about 25% sag for a bit on the 170mm setup to mimic (kinda) 150mm at 15% sag. Run the irt a bit higher making the fork more progressive. It’s going to be on a hardtail so the progression should be good to have


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

We have a girl called Erice racing in NZ. She's sponsored by Manitou and I had the opportunity to tune her forks. She's under 40kg so I softened them up as much as possible on compression (pretty close to target) while still hitting the rebound targets.

Air pressures are down to 25psi main and 30psi IRT. Look how well they stick on landing:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CQsAWEfhXLZ/


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Dougal said:


> We have a girl called Erice racing in NZ. She's sponsored by Manitou and I had the opportunity to tune her forks. She's under 40kg so I softened them up as much as possible on compression (pretty close to target) while still hitting the rebound targets.
> 
> Air pressures are down to 25psi main and 30psi IRT. Look how well they stick on landing:
> 
> ...


Wow. Zero bounce.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

irck said:


> Wow. Zero bounce.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Like a good motocross bike or baja truck. We are so used to suspension that doesn't track properly, it feels strange when it does.


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

Cool to see how the suspension should work. Has anyone ever created a "library" of example of suspension working like it should in wild?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Seniorbrucio said:


> Cool to see how the suspension should work. Has anyone ever created a "library" of example of suspension working like it should in wild?


Maybe not, but there are thousands of chest-mount videos showing suspension that doesn't work like it should.


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

Hi Guys,
So I ordered my Mara Pro for my GG Trail Pistol and now I'm toying with the idea of grabbing a Mezzer fork and going all in. I used to be a Manitou fanboy back in the Sherman Slider days. In truth that fork really sucked (It had terrible small bump compliance) but I did like the ISX-6 Evolver shock a lot. 

Has anyone tested the Mezzer Expert and Pro side-by-side? I'm leaning towards the Expert as $750 is within my budget. I'm replacing a Bomber Z1 which is OK but a bit too linear and heavy for some of the tamer stuff I ride.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

DirtDiggler said:


> Hi Guys,
> So I ordered my Mara Pro for my GG Trail Pistol and now I'm toying with the idea of grabbing a Mezzer fork and going all in. I used to be a Manitou fanboy back in the Sherman Slider days. In truth that fork really sucked (It had terrible small bump compliance) but I did like the ISX-6 Evolver shock a lot.
> 
> Has anyone tested the Mezzer Expert and Pro side-by-side? I'm leaning towards the Expert as $750 is within my budget. I'm replacing a Bomber Z1 which is OK but a bit too linear and heavy for some of the tamer stuff I ride.


I haven't had anything to do with the Expert but after tuning and using the Pro I would wait and save up and buy the Pro. It's the bomb. If you are using the Mara Pro I suspect the rear end will out perform the the front by a margin if you went for the Expert based on the reviews of the Mara Pro and front end performance is more important IMO. No one rides rigid forks with suspension in the rear but they do ride hard tails with high end forks so the front end is the most important of the two. It is where your confidence or lack of will come from the most. That's the way I think about it.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

DirtDiggler said:


> Has anyone tested the Mezzer Expert and Pro side-by-side? I'm leaning towards the Expert as $750 is within my budget. I'm replacing a Bomber Z1 which is OK but a bit too linear and heavy for some of the tamer stuff I ride.


The smart money path supposedly is to get the Expert and then put the IRT assembly in it for a total of $800 or something.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

GiddyHitch said:


> The smart money path supposedly is to get the Expert and then put the IRT assembly in it for a total of $800 or something.


Maybe that ship has sailed, but that's what I paid for my Pro... And you'd still be lacking hydraulic bottom out, which is outstanding.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Maybe that ship has sailed, but that's what I paid for my Pro... And you'd still be lacking hydraulic bottom out, which is outstanding.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Yeah, before covid I regularly saw it for $800 directly from Manitou also but haven't seen that in a while, maybe worth waiting to some of the big holidays to see if they have some promotions.


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> Yeah, before covid I regularly saw it for $800 directly from Manitou also but haven't seen that in a while, maybe worth waiting to some of the big holidays to see if they have some promotions.


Thanks guys, I might just go the Expert + IRT path. I can get the Expert for $700 w/warranty. The Mezzer Pro is running around $950 and I rarely see it on sale. If I could get pre covid prices it would be a no brainer to get the Pro but that ship has sailed.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

DirtDiggler said:


> Thanks guys, I might just go the Expert + IRT path. I can get the Expert for $700 w/warranty. The Mezzer Pro is running around $950 and I rarely see it on sale. If I could get pre covid prices it would be a no brainer to get the Pro but that ship has sailed.


For $250 I think it's still a no brainer. Pro all the way. If you knew what I had to pay in Oz for a 44mm offset because there was only 51mm available locally you would turn the colour of bad ****.


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

One thing I noticed is Hayes mentions the Mezzer expert is upgradable but I can't find the MC2 damper as a standalone upgrade. The IRT is easy to find though. Anyone know where I can find an MC2 damper in the future?


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

OzIbis said:


> For $250 I think it's still a no brainer. Pro all the way. If you knew what I had to pay in Oz for a 44mm offset because there was only 51mm available locally you would turn the colour of bad ****.


Yeah, maybe you're right. It seems like one of those situation where you might as well go all the way. The MC2 damper is not for sale on the Hayes website so upgrading fully to a PRO version in the future may not be possible anyway.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

DirtDiggler said:


> One thing I noticed is Hayes mentions the Mezzer expert is upgradable but I can't find the MC2 damper as a standalone upgrade. The IRT is easy to find though. Anyone know where I can find an MC2 damper in the future?





DirtDiggler said:


> Yeah, maybe you're right. It seems like one of those situation where you might as well go all the way. The MC2 damper is not for sale on the Hayes website so upgrading fully to a PRO version in the future may not be possible anyway.








Mezzer Damper Cartridge MC2 Complete (Manitou) | Shockcraft


Mezzer Damper Cartridge MC2 Complete (Manitou), this includes the knobs as well<br />LSR = Low Speed Rebound adjuster (bottom blue knob).<br />LSC = Low Speed Compression adjuster (top centre red knob).<br />HSC = High Speed Compression adjuster (top oute




www.shockcraft.co.nz


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

DirtDiggler said:


> One thing I noticed is Hayes mentions the Mezzer expert is upgradable but I can't find the MC2 damper as a standalone upgrade. The IRT is easy to find though. Anyone know where I can find an MC2 damper in the future?


If you are thinking you are going to upgrade to IRT and to MC2 later might as well just get the Pro, would be cheaper on long run to just bite the bullet now


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Mezzer Damper Cartridge MC2 Complete (Manitou) | Shockcraft
> 
> 
> Mezzer Damper Cartridge MC2 Complete (Manitou), this includes the knobs as well<br />LSR = Low Speed Rebound adjuster (bottom blue knob).<br />LSC = Low Speed Compression adjuster (top centre red knob).<br />HSC = High Speed Compression adjuster (top oute
> ...


Thanks Dougal! That's definitely more than I expected but good to know you have it available. So that puts the Pro upgrade closer to $365 US + shipping.

I just learned from scavenging the internet for the past hour that the Pro Mezzer 44mm version is sold out everywhere. Just my luck. I might have to go with the expert for now since it's available in 44mm offset. I'm hoping it's still a step up from my Z1.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

DirtDiggler said:


> Thanks Dougal! That's definitely more than I expected but good to know you have it available. So that puts the Pro upgrade closer to $365 US + shipping.
> 
> I just learned from scavenging the internet for the past hour that the Pro Mezzer 44mm version is sold out everywhere. Just my luck. I might have to go with the expert for now since it's available in 44mm offset. I'm hoping it's still a step up from my Z1.


I might have a line on some. PM sent.


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

jakalwil said:


> Everything seems to work normal, just there's a clunking noise when lifting the front wheel now


My Expert with a relatively recent IRT upgrade (assume unrelated, excellent upgrade) just developed the same problem. I have a spare so I'm just going to send it in for warranty service, haven't taken it apart.

Fork is relatively new, maybe 30 hours, so wondering if this is a more common thing?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Nay said:


> My Expert with a relatively recent IRT upgrade (assume unrelated, excellent upgrade) just developed the same problem. I have a spare so I'm just going to send it in for warranty service, haven't taken it apart.
> 
> Fork is relatively new, maybe 30 hours, so wondering if this is a more common thing?


You sure that your headset isn't loose? Depending on the bearing/race setup a few hours of riding can open up some slack.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nay said:


> My Expert with a relatively recent IRT upgrade (assume unrelated, excellent upgrade) just developed the same problem. I have a spare so I'm just going to send it in for warranty service, haven't taken it apart.
> 
> Fork is relatively new, maybe 30 hours, so wondering if this is a more common thing?


Check brakes, axle, headset. There's nothing in a 30 hour fork that can clunk.
If you were at 1000 hours then it's possible.


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

CCS86 said:


> You sure that your headset isn't loose? Depending on the bearing/race setup a few hours of riding can open up some slack.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Headset is tight. It initially felt like a loose headset, but I double checked that.

It's a noticeable metal on metal feel with any unweighted full return. In this vid you can hear it ping through the rotor.


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Check brakes, axle, headset. There's nothing in a 30 hour fork that can clunk.
> If you were at 1000 hours then it's possible.


Brakes, axle, and headset are tight. It started after I installed the IRT and after a few rides dropped main to 40. I thought maybe I'd done something weird to pressures, but that's a hard top out just with hand compression in the vid. Don't feel it at all weighted.

I torqued IRT per factory spec, greased before install. Of passing interest, the post I quoted from @jakalwil he's also on a 2020 Stumpjumper 27.5, but that seems coincidence.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Nay said:


> Headaet is tight. It initially felt like a loose headset, but I double checked that.
> 
> It's a noticeable metal on metal feel with any unweighted full return. In this vid you can hear it ping through the rotor.


That's a decent knock!

Check the front caliper brake mount...the caliper could be tight but the mount could be loose. Also check the rear brake.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nay said:


> Headset is tight. It initially felt like a loose headset, but I double checked that.
> 
> It's a noticeable metal on metal feel with any unweighted full return. In this vid you can hear it ping through the rotor.


The fork looks like you've got zero negative pressure. Try to equalise that, might need a different pump.


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

springs said:


> That's a decent knock!
> 
> Check the front caliper brake mount...the caliper could be tight but the mount could be loose. Also check the rear brake.





Dougal said:


> The fork looks like you've got zero negative pressure. Try to equalise that, might need a different pump.


OK so I did buy a Specialized pump close enough to the time when this started. Outside of "attach pump, add air" is there anything else?

I just took it to zero and added air, same pump, no change. I'll try a different one.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

It was the pump. Problem solved. Seems maybe it was too little pressure with each stroke? I would have never figured that out, thanks, I’m out in Gunnison riding Hartman Rocks and that just salvaged my next two days.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Nay said:


> It was the pump. Problem solved. Seems maybe it was too little pressure with each stroke? I would have never figured that out, thanks.


Some pumps don't go on far enough to engage the negative chamber, I've had good luck with this digital pump, they are all the same just rebranded so either RS, Fox, Venzo, etc.


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> Some pumps don't go on far enough to engage the negative chamber, I've had good luck with this digital pump, they are all the same just rebranded so either RS, Fox, Venzo, etc.
> View attachment 1940415


Got it, makes sense. I'll pick up that RS pump, seems everybody likes it.


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Quick question.

Is the height adjustable on the valve like the mattoc? Seemed a little different last one i had apart.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

boostinmini said:


> Quick question.
> 
> Is the height adjustable on the valve like the mattoc? Seemed a little different last one i had apart.


Yep. Same way. The shaft is built differently but the same trick works.


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Dougal said:


> Yep. Same way. The shaft is built differently but the same trick works.


 I can't remember but i thought the piston was solid, where is the adjustment?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

boostinmini said:


> I can't remember but i thought the piston was solid, where is the adjustment?


My apologies. I thought you were wanting to adjust the height of the fork using the valve. The valve protrusion is not adjustable. As you already know.


----------



## danger_dario (Sep 30, 2020)

Nay said:


> My Expert with a relatively recent IRT upgrade (assume unrelated, excellent upgrade) just developed the same problem. I have a spare so I'm just going to send it in for warranty service, haven't taken it apart.
> 
> Fork is relatively new, maybe 30 hours, so wondering if this is a more common thing?


I finally just fixed this problem in my Expert, after months of tinkering and conversation with Manitou. The solution sounds kinda whack, but hear me out.

The culprit (in my case) was the sole shim contacting the rebound oil ports at the bottom of the damper. All you have to do is take the damper out, remove that shim from the stack between the spring and the machined ports, and "rough up the contact patch up a bit," as laid out by the Manitou engineer I talked to. I just used some emory cloth and isopropyl to scratch ONLY the side that contacts the oil ports, leave the other smooth. Worked instantly for me, no clunk.


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

Ok now that I


danger_dario said:


> I finally just fixed this problem in my Expert, after months of tinkering and conversation with Manitou. The solution sounds kinda whack, but hear me out.
> 
> The culprit (in my case) was the sole shim contacting the rebound oil ports at the bottom of the damper. All you have to do is take the damper out, remove that shim from the stack between the spring and the machined ports, and "rough up the contact patch up a bit," as laid out by the Manitou engineer I talked to. I just used some emory cloth and isopropyl to scratch ONLY the side that contacts the oil ports, leave the other smooth. Worked instantly for me, no clunk.


Mine was 100% no air in the negative chamber. Rode today and I think had the first proper feel with the Expert + IRT. That's really a must upgrade, the IVA is just another way to do volume spacers.

I didn't go Expert over Pro for the savings, I did it because I want a fork that works right at the spring and damper level where I leave compression open and just play with a single damping adjustment and air tuning.

I get the micro-tuning stuff, my life is high maintenance enough, I just need to ride the bike. It was killer today, although Hartman Rocks has a way of making bikes feel really, really good.


----------



## danger_dario (Sep 30, 2020)

Nay said:


> Ok now that I
> 
> Mine was 100% no air in the negative chamber. Rode today and I think had the first proper feel with the Expert + IRT. That's really a must upgrade, the IVA is just another way to do volume spacers.
> 
> ...


Same logic on my part, I think the IRT Exp combo is all you need for the vast majority of situations. I've had my setup since December, and have ridden an array of terrain, not really lacking in any of them save for weird temperature situations where I had to tweak rebound a lot mid-ride.


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

Nay said:


> Ok now that I
> 
> Mine was 100% no air in the negative chamber. Rode today and I think had the first proper feel with the Expert + IRT. That's really a must upgrade, the IVA is just another way to do volume spacers.
> 
> ...





Nay said:


> Ok now that I
> 
> Mine was 100% no air in the negative chamber. Rode today and I think had the first proper feel with the Expert + IRT. That's really a must upgrade, the IVA is just another way to do volume spacers.
> 
> ...





Nay said:


> Ok now that I
> 
> Mine was 100% no air in the negative chamber. Rode today and I think had the first proper feel with the Expert + IRT. That's really a must upgrade, the IVA is just another way to do volume spacers.
> 
> ...


That's great to hear it's riding good now!
I'm not a big fan of having an abundance of adjustments to tinker with either so the Expert looked slightly more appealing in the end combined with the lower price. The truth is I usually get myself into a bind when trying to figure out if I notice a difference between micro settings and deciding whether the changes are actually improving my ride. Without objective measurements it's difficult to tell. So, similar to you, I usually setup the air spring and then use the compression fully open or fully closed for fire roads or long climbs. This is why I like shocks with a simple compression to lockout and rebound adjust like the Marz Z1 for example. Simple doesn't have to mean 'compromised' if the fork is designed well.


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

Nay said:


> Ok now that I
> 
> Mine was 100% no air in the negative chamber. Rode today and I think had the first proper feel with the Expert + IRT. That's really a must upgrade, the IVA is just another way to do volume spacers.
> 
> ...


Ahhh - Hartman Rocks - on the list for this fall now that I live over in BV...

I have the pro fork. Its reallllly good, but yet I feel not 100%... do you know why no air in the neg? was it shock pump valve related?


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

What does the rebound shim stack mod achieve exactly? Is it just an across the range lightening of rebound? Or is that over simplifying? I am a few clicks from open on rebound with the stock rebound shim stack and unsure whether it’s worth doing.


----------



## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

Awesome! How did I miss this thread. 

I need to get some Super Gliss 100k heading this way. I have two to service.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> What does the rebound shim stack mod achieve exactly? Is it just an across the range lightening of rebound? Or is that over simplifying? I am a few clicks from open on rebound with the stock rebound shim stack and unsure whether it's worth doing.


Which one? the sandpaper? that's just to prevent the shim from suctioning onto the piston

Or do you mean the flattening of the piston and removal of 9mm shim, this should lighten the rebound across the range but mostly low speed rebound as the preload in the shim stack will be removed


----------



## Funken (May 31, 2021)

I just did a travel change and noticed that the shop that originally set up the travel had the silver washer at the top of the shaft, above the chips and below the seal, instead of below the chips and above the bumper. Any idea how this affects performance?


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

spo0n said:


> Which one? the sandpaper? that's just to prevent the shim from suctioning onto the piston
> 
> Or do you mean the flattening of the piston and removal of 9mm shim, this should lighten the rebound across the range but mostly low speed rebound as the preload in the shim stack will be removed


I was referring to removal of the 9mm shim, thank you.

Would you recommend I remove the 9mm shim if not currently running rebound open?


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

kamper11 said:


> Ahhh - Hartman Rocks - on the list for this fall now that I live over in BV...
> 
> I have the pro fork. Its reallllly good, but yet I feel not 100%... do you know why no air in the neg? was it shock pump valve related?


Yes, I'd bought a Specialized pump at my LBS right as I swapped in the IRT. Used a different pump and problem immediately solved.

Hartman Rocks and rocks.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> I was referring to removal of the 9mm shim, thank you.
> 
> Would you recommend I remove the 9mm shim if not currently running rebound open?


The removal of shims was for the 13mm. prior to my 21 the stack was 13,13,9,13 ,piston.
The my 21 tune was 13,9,13,piston although some have reported they have 12's instead of 13's from factory. 
Removing the 9 is only if you polish the preload dish out of the piston, otherwise you would have both 13mm shims preloaded so in theory would increase dampening.

I'd try it at full open, if you like it & want it faster/lighter then I'd investigate what stack you have & move to 12's first, then flattening the piston 2nd.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

cashews said:


> The removal of shims was for the 13mm. prior to my 21 the stack was 13,13,9,13 ,piston.
> The my 21 tune was 13,9,13,piston although some have reported they have 12's instead of 13's from factory.
> Removing the 9 is only if you polish the preload dish out of the piston, otherwise you would have both 13mm shims preloaded so in theory would increase dampening.
> 
> I'd try it at full open, if you like it & want it faster/lighter then I'd investigate what stack you have & move to 12's first, then flattening the piston 2nd.


Thanks. I'm at 4 clicks from open on rebound, so I'll leave the rebound stack as is.

On the compression stack, would it be better to have open HSC with a firmer stack, or HSC at 2 with a softer stack?

I did the 17.5>12mm shim swap a while back and the results were good, although I ended up with HSC open most of the time. Today I removed the 12mm shim and with HSC open it is too soft. HSC at 2 clicks feels similar to the previous 12mm moded stack when open, but it's too early to make a definitive conclusion.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

I just installed the 214 quad ring for air piston as discussed earlier so in a couple when I go back to Tamarack I'll get to try it and report back but in the stand I can tell it takes a little less breakaway force to get moving compared to a broken in 215 quadring so I'm intrigued to see if makes a difference on small bumps, also I switched to Supergliss 68k instead of 100k since most of my riding is done below 90°


----------



## Hafermilch (Mar 14, 2021)

Does anyone know if and what difference there is between the green SKF seals (SKF Mountainbike fork-Dichtungskit - MANITOU 37mm) and the dark grey (OEM) ones used by Manitou (just linking Dougal´s, hope that´s okay https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-37-mm-fork-seal-kit-oe.html)? I´m sure it makes absolutely no discernible difference but both cost the same here in Germany and I´d like to take the best possible option (of course -.-) for the next service


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

So after stating in earlier posts that I thought the Manitou set up guide air pressures were too high I’ve now changed my mind. Today I tried the set up guides recommendation of 52psi and 84psi for 160mm travel for my 73kg weight. That’s it I’m sold. I also set the LSC to 1 click from open and rebound to 5 clicks from closed. HSC open and I’ve done the 17.5mm shim swap for the 12mm.
I lost the smallest amount of sharp hit compliance on slower stuff and I’m not talking much but the feel and support on high speed hits and chunky stuff is incredible. This is definitely a more aggressive set up but if you just let the bike go and trust it WOW. I thought my last set up felt awesome but this one makes the front end feel so stable and I think produces even more grip. I’m super stoked can’t wait to try it on some real chunky stuff on the trail I’m doing tomorrow but on the rougher parts of today’s loop it was unreal. I can’t see myself going back to my other set up unless I find some substantial negatives in the next few rides. At this point though😛😍


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

OzIbis said:


> So after stating in earlier posts that I thought the Manitou set up guide air pressures were too high I've now changed my mind. Today I tried the set up guides recommendation of 52psi and 84psi for 160mm travel for my 73kg weight. That's it I'm sold. I also set the LSC to 1 click from open and rebound to 5 clicks from closed. HSC open and I've done the 17.5mm shim swap for the 12mm.
> I lost the smallest amount of sharp hit compliance on slower stuff and I'm not talking much but the feel and support on high speed hits and chunky stuff is incredible. This is definitely a more aggressive set up but if you just let the bike go and trust it WOW. I thought my last set up felt awesome but this one makes the front end feel so stable and I think produces even more grip. I'm super stoked can't wait to try it on some real chunky stuff on the trail I'm doing tomorrow but on the rougher parts of today's loop it was unreal. I can't see myself going back to my other set up unless I find some substantial negatives in the next few rides. At this point thought ??


Yeah, I felt like they were too high when I bought the fork. I read every post, thread, and review and saw that a lot of people were running lower pressures than recommended. Tried it and thought that it was better. Recently I went back to the recommended pressures and damn, it's so much better. I don't use all the travel (170mm) and I don't think the small bump compliance is great, but it just gives me so much control.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Skulls Road said:


> Yeah, I felt like they were too high when I bought the fork. I read every post, thread, and review and saw that a lot of people were running lower pressures than recommended. Tried it and thought that it was better. Recently I went back to the recommended pressures and damn, it's so much better. I don't use all the travel (170mm) and I don't think the small bump compliance is great, but it just gives me so much control.


Have you done the shim mod to your damper?


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Hafermilch said:


> Does anyone know if and what difference there is between the green SKF seals (SKF Mountainbike fork-Dichtungskit - MANITOU 37mm) and the dark grey (OEM) ones used by Manitou (just linking Dougal´s, hope that´s okay https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-37-mm-fork-seal-kit-oe.html)? I´m sure it makes absolutely no discernible difference but both cost the same here in Germany and I´d like to take the best possible option (of course -.-) for the next service


Is there a 37 mm seal for the Mezzer? All I can find for that size is fir a Honda

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

johnsogr said:


> Is there a 37 mm seal for the Mezzer? All I can find for that size is fir a Honda
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes there is. I have a pair here for if and when they need replacing. I bought mine when I bought the fork because I knew they wouldn't be an overnight thing to get over here. I'm not sure where you would get them from over there but I know Dougal either has them or can get them. The harder thing is getting a fork seal driver. I've contacted the new importer over here and I'm now waiting for him to get them into stock.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

OzIbis said:


> The harder thing is getting a fork seal driver.


On that note, what are people using for DIY solutions to drive seals? Sockets? Old seals? Is it a tight fit?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

EatsDirt said:


> On that note, what are people using for DIY solutions to drive seals? Sockets? Old seals? Is it a tight fit?


3D printed driver.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> On that note, what are people using for DIY solutions to drive seals? Sockets? Old seals? Is it a tight fit?


Manitou have a 34/37mm double ended driver tool now. HB-172-37540-K002 is my SKU but I need to finish off the listing.

I made my own aluminium one before it arrived.


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

If expert self equalize, what stops the IRT upgrade from equalizing up top?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I was under the impression that the Expert has the same air spring as the Pro.

But either way, the IRT chamber is a separate entity.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

OzIbis said:


> So after stating in earlier posts that I thought the Manitou set up guide air pressures were too high I've now changed my mind. Today I tried the set up guides recommendation of 52psi and 84psi for 160mm travel for my 73kg weight. That's it I'm sold. I also set the LSC to 1 click from open and rebound to 5 clicks from closed. HSC open and I've done the 17.5mm shim swap for the 12mm.
> I lost the smallest amount of sharp hit compliance on slower stuff and I'm not talking much but the feel and support on high speed hits and chunky stuff is incredible. This is definitely a more aggressive set up but if you just let the bike go and trust it WOW. I thought my last set up felt awesome but this one makes the front end feel so stable and I think produces even more grip. I'm super stoked can't wait to try it on some real chunky stuff on the trail I'm doing tomorrow but on the rougher parts of today's loop it was unreal. I can't see myself going back to my other set up unless I find some substantial negatives in the next few rides. At this point though??


I'm now 100% certain that I won't be going back to my old settings. So incredibly happy with the handling and that's coming from an already pretty high bar. The bike feels so planted and stable and if you carry a bit of speed it will just hold a line through almost anything and it is actually surprisingly comfortable through the bars. I'm definitely a convert to higher pressures.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Turd said:


> If expert self equalize, what stops the IRT upgrade from equalizing up top?


Expert self equalizes Pos and Neg chamber, IRT is another pos chamber that's seals with the stanchion internally. Fantastic upgrade for the Expert if you get one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

Anyone have a rough idea how the 4 open positions on the Expert damper map to LSC/HSC clicks on the Pro?


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

OzIbis said:


> I'm now 100% certain that I won't be going back to my old settings. So incredibly happy with the handling and that's coming from an already pretty high bar. The bike feels so planted and stable and if you carry a bit of speed it will just hold a line through almost anything and it is actually surprisingly comfortable through the bars. I'm definitely a convert to higher pressures.


OK - so are you referring to the Manitou pressures or the spreadsheet that's part of this thread that is lower pressures than manitou, but frankly higher than what I've been running? Thanks!

EDIT - I pulled the setup - Manitou pressures.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

kamper11 said:


> OK - so are you referring to the Manitou pressures or the spreadsheet that's part of this thread that is lower pressures than manitou, but frankly higher than what I've been running? Thanks!
> 
> EDIT - I pulled the setup - Manitou pressures.


Yeah I'm using the Manitou set up guide which is the same as the sticker on the bottom of the fork. I will say though although I didn't try it personally I wouldn't go to those pressures at our weight unless you've done the shim stack. I'm pretty sure it would be too harsh.


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

Can i use the rockshox reverb bleed kit adapter for the bleed ports on the mezzer? When adding the 7cc bath top up oil, Do i need to remove the air from the fork.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

davidt93 said:


> Can i use the rockshox reverb bleed kit adapter for the bleed ports on the mezzer? When adding the 7cc bath top up oil, Do i need to remove the air from the fork.


Yes you can.

No need to air down. The bleed ports can actually be useful to bleed off any small pressure in the lower legs. My Mezzer never has any pressure though.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

davidt93 said:


> Can i use the rockshox reverb bleed kit adapter for the bleed ports on the mezzer? When adding the 7cc bath top up oil, Do i need to remove the air from the fork.


For reference you can also use the Rock Shox revert bleed kit to bleed the damper as well. I bought one to do my damper and have done it a few times successfully.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OzIbis said:


> So after stating in earlier posts that I thought the Manitou set up guide air pressures were too high I've now changed my mind. Today I tried the set up guides recommendation of 52psi and 84psi for 160mm travel for my 73kg weight. That's it I'm sold. I also set the LSC to 1 click from open and rebound to 5 clicks from closed. HSC open and I've done the 17.5mm shim swap for the 12mm.
> I lost the smallest amount of sharp hit compliance on slower stuff and I'm not talking much but the feel and support on high speed hits and chunky stuff is incredible. This is definitely a more aggressive set up but if you just let the bike go and trust it WOW. I thought my last set up felt awesome but this one makes the front end feel so stable and I think produces even more grip. I'm super stoked can't wait to try it on some real chunky stuff on the trail I'm doing tomorrow but on the rougher parts of today's loop it was unreal. I can't see myself going back to my other set up unless I find some substantial negatives in the next few rides. At this point though??


Next time I've got my fork off I'll put in in the spring tester at your pressures to see how they compare.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Next time I've got my fork off I'll put in in the spring tester at your pressures to see how they compare.


That will be interesting. Not sure if your current damper shim stack is set the same as mine or not but it would be awesome if it was and see what the machine spits out. Just in ride feel though and stability AND surprisingly comfort it's bloody amazing. I'm very much looking forward to your findings.
Just so you don't have to search back through the thread my settings are as follows if you want to try them on the spring tester. 
Main 52
IRT 84
HSC open
LSC 1 click
Rebound 5 clicks from fully closed. 
On 160mm travel.


----------



## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

I found Dougal's suggestion for settings in the comment section on Pinkbike's review of the Mezzer Pro and they are definitely different from both the Manitou and CCS86 setup guides. But holy smoke did they transform the fork! I set some Strava PRs on some segments I ride a lot, so I believe that proves that it works for me.



> Dougal-SC (Oct 11, 2019 at 14:06)
> @mikekazimer: I'm also confident in my settings and they're the opposite of yours.
> 
> Next time you get on a Mezzer, run it at 35/55psi and close LSC. Then go hunt roots at speed.
> ...


Mike Kazimer was about 73kg, and I am 79kg, so I added 8% to those numbers for an IRT pressure of 59.5 PSI and 38 PSI in the main chamber. Rebound was a couple of clicks from fully open. LSC was completely closed and HSC completely open. I believe I will comtinue with these settings as the fork was so sensitive over low-speed bumps and really plush when things got faster and rowdy. The holy grail it seems to me and I am very happy that I seem to have found it. The only thing I am wondering is why more people don't seem to run these settings.


----------



## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

Has anyone tried or considered taking the spacers out of the Expert volume piston and using a steel spring to get a kind of IRT? I think DT does this on their fork?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Boronite said:


> I found Dougal's suggestion for settings in the comment section on Pinkbike's review of the Mezzer Pro and they are definitely different from both the Manitou and CCS86 setup guides. But holy smoke did they transform the fork! I set some Strava PRs on some segments I ride a lot, so I believe that proves that it works for me.
> 
> Mike Kazimer was about 73kg, and I am 79kg, so I added 8% to those numbers for an IRT pressure of 59.5 PSI and 38 PSI in the main chamber. Rebound was a couple of clicks from fully open. LSC was completely closed and HSC completely open. I believe I will comtinue with these settings as the fork was so sensitive over low-speed bumps and really plush when things got faster and rowdy. The holy grail it seems to me and I am very happy that I seem to have found it. The only thing I am wondering is why more people don't seem to run these settings.


If Kazimer did that he'd be in trouble with his advertisers.......

So instead he can intentionally screw up the review of the Pro model and give a rave review of the mid-level Expert version. Or something like that.


----------



## nebio (Jul 25, 2019)

Boronite said:


> I found Dougal's suggestion for settings in the comment section on Pinkbike's review of the Mezzer Pro and they are definitely different from both the Manitou and CCS86 setup guides. But holy smoke did they transform the fork! I set some Strava PRs on some segments I ride a lot, so I believe that proves that it works for me.
> 
> Mike Kazimer was about 73kg, and I am 79kg, so I added 8% to those numbers for an IRT pressure of 59.5 PSI and 38 PSI in the main chamber. Rebound was a couple of clicks from fully open. LSC was completely closed and HSC completely open. I believe I will comtinue with these settings as the fork was so sensitive over low-speed bumps and really plush when things got faster and rowdy. The holy grail it seems to me and I am very happy that I seem to have found it. The only thing I am wondering is why more people don't seem to run these settings.


What travel is your Mezzer set to?


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

Boronite said:


> I found Dougal's suggestion for settings in the comment section on Pinkbike's review of the Mezzer Pro and they are definitely different from both the Manitou and CCS86 setup guides. But holy smoke did they transform the fork! I set some Strava PRs on some segments I ride a lot, so I believe that proves that it works for me.
> 
> Mike Kazimer was about 73kg, and I am 79kg, so I added 8% to those numbers for an IRT pressure of 59.5 PSI and 38 PSI in the main chamber. Rebound was a couple of clicks from fully open. LSC was completely closed and HSC completely open. I believe I will comtinue with these settings as the fork was so sensitive over low-speed bumps and really plush when things got faster and rowdy. The holy grail it seems to me and I am very happy that I seem to have found it. The only thing I am wondering is why more people don't seem to run these settings.


Interesting... I'm pretty happy with stock Manitou settings but I never tried lowering the pressure And closing off the damper. I'm going to give it a try since I'm the exact same weight as you. I wonder if it makes a difference that I just installed the Mezzer on my hardtail.


----------



## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

> What travel is your Mezzer set to?


160mm.


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

I'm losing air pressure in the IRT(main is fine), was set on 90psi and it reduce to 75 in about 30mins. Brand new Fork and only had the travel changed, was thinking it would be due to the pump but that is a dramatic drop. Any ideas?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

davidt93 said:


> I'm losing air pressure in the IRT(main is fine), was set on 90psi and it reduce to 75 in about 30mins. Brand new Fork and only had the travel changed, was thinking it would be due to the pump but that is a dramatic drop. Any ideas?


There are only two places it can leak. Into the lower legs or out the air-valve. If it's leaking into the lower legs then undoing the foot bolt will get you a hiss. If it's leaking at the valve then a different pump is the first thing to try.

If it loses positive air out the valve the fork will lose height. If it loses negative air out the valve the fork will get a hard top-out.


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

Dougal said:


> There are only two places it can leak. Into the lower legs or out the air-valve. If it's leaking into the lower legs then undoing the foot bolt will get you a hiss. If it's leaking at the valve then a different pump is the first thing to try.
> 
> If it loses positive air out the valve the fork will lose height. If it loses negative air out the valve the fork will get a hard top-out.


Thanks Dougal, Switched pumps and had it inflated to 130psi and once again losing about 15-20psi in about 30mins No hiss sounds at the lowers when undoing the foot bolt. Will try again tomorrow if not the fork will be sent back. Fork felt amazing for afew hours that i had them working.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Dougal said:


> There are only two places it can leak. Into the lower legs or out the air-valve. If it's leaking into the lower legs then undoing the foot bolt will get you a hiss. If it's leaking at the valve then a different pump is the first thing to try.
> 
> If it loses positive air out the valve the fork will lose height. If it loses negative air out the valve the fork will get a hard top-out.


How does air leak from the IRT into the lower legs?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spo0n said:


> How does air leak from the IRT into the lower legs?


It can't. I read that wrong. IRT can leak into positive (raises positive pressure, decreases IRT) or leak to outside (lowers positive and lowers IRT).


----------



## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Boronite said:


> The only thing I am wondering is why more people don't seem to run these settings.


Because it's a very unorthodox approach that, as you noted, is way different from Manitou's setup recommendations (which others are quite pleased with). Not that I'm bashing it. I'm definitely intrigued and will give it a try at some point.


----------



## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

I've got a Mezzer Pro @ 140 that I've setup with Manitou recommended settings for >220lbs w/ trail dampening and I'm getting a bit of spiking on second hits. My trails are all chunk so it gets fatiguing over a ride. I'm probably going to open up the rebound all the way and see how that works do y'all have any other suggestions?

Thanks
James


----------



## balticmoe (Nov 17, 2019)

Boronite said:


> I found Dougal's suggestion for settings in the comment section on Pinkbike's review of the Mezzer Pro and they are definitely different from both the Manitou and CCS86 setup guides. But holy smoke did they transform the fork! I set some Strava PRs on some segments I ride a lot, so I believe that proves that it works for me.
> 
> Mike Kazimer was about 73kg, and I am 79kg, so I added 8% to those numbers for an IRT pressure of 59.5 PSI and 38 PSI in the main chamber. Rebound was a couple of clicks from fully open. LSC was completely closed and HSC completely open. I believe I will comtinue with these settings as the fork was so sensitive over low-speed bumps and really plush when things got faster and rowdy. The holy grail it seems to me and I am very happy that I seem to have found it. The only thing I am wondering is why more people don't seem to run these settings.





Dougal said:


> If Kazimer did that he'd be in trouble with his advertisers.......
> 
> So instead he can intentionally screw up the review of the Pro model and give a rave review of the mid-level Expert version. Or something like that.


hello together,

after some research I came across the mezzer and may I now call it my own. after the conversion to 160mm I am now looking for a setup as a beginner in terms of suspension.

I started with the values of @Boronite and @Dougal adapted to my weight.

compared to the previous fox 34 was a kind of enlightenment. I'm just not sure about the used travel, cf. picture. should I increase the pressure in the irt?


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Depends on the trail (how rough it is, how fast you were hauling the mail) and feel (white knuckle, comfortable, not feeling bottom outs).

If the trail was like an old railroad bed and people in wheel chairs are keeping up with you or passing you while using that much travel then you might be too low.

If the fork felt good on the ride, not diving, or felt like you had to white knuckle it constantly to fight being flipped over the bars then you are good.

I think the key is the quality of the travel/feel of the travel with the indicator being less important as there are going to be rides where you use more travel and rides where the fork handles business but isn't using all of the travel.

As long as you feel comfortable and you feel like the fork is doing what it needs to do relative to trail chunk, your speed, etc then you are set.


----------



## balticmoe (Nov 17, 2019)

Hey @slientG,

thanks a lot for the feedback. The input gives a good starting point for further testing, especially with all the options.

The fork was very sensitive, at least compared to my Fox 34 before. The response was very good, so I will increase the pressure a little for personal preference.

PS: In fact I dropped "my" wheelchair with installation of the Mezzer


----------



## Carmel (Apr 21, 2014)

The approach with lower pressure and LSC sounds intrigueing, too bad I just come back from 3 weeks of alpine smashing. At about 70kg (depending on amount of water in my backpack) I am currently running 48/75 @160mm with fully open RBD and HSC and 1 click of LSC. I still have more than 1cm of travel left, but fork feels great. Rebound is still not fast enough for the Mara Pro out back though (which is also one click from full fast, on a Banshee Titan.)

I also feel like the fork sucks up lips/bumps so good, that the back kicks me a little. Wether this is to slow rebound or not enough LSC is hard to tell for me, I have not tried more than 2 clicks of LSC and 1 of HSC so far.
I would love the fork to generate a bit more pop though.

I have not done a shimstack mod yet, but I feel like that will help the rebound speed.


----------



## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

Carmel said:


> The approach with lower pressure and LSC sounds intrigueing, too bad I just come back from 3 weeks of alpine smashing. At about 70kg (depending on amount of water in my backpack) I am currently running 48/75 @160mm with fully open RBD and HSC and 1 click of LSC. I still have more than 1cm of travel left, but fork feels great. Rebound is still not fast enough for the Mara Pro out back though (which is also one click from full fast, on a Banshee Titan.)
> 
> I also feel like the fork sucks up lips/bumps so good, that the back kicks me a little. Wether this is to slow rebound or not enough LSC is hard to tell for me, I have not tried more than 2 clicks of LSC and 1 of HSC so far.
> I would love the fork to generate a bit more pop though.
> ...


I'm looking for a way to speed up rebound a bit too. 140mm 67.5/98 @195lbs paired to a Mara IL on a Ripley. Gotta run rebound wide open to match shock 1 notch from closed on jump trails. For normal riding I run 1-2 clicks on fork and 2 notches from closed on shock. Shock warms up a bit and speeds up on the longer descents.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

CCS86 said:


> View attachment 1921590


My rebound stack has 12mm O.D. Shims in place of the 13mm, and the shim marked "Remove for MY21is also not present. Is this another running change to speed up the rebound or should the 12mm OD shims in fact be 13mm on my rebound stack?

Fork is a MY21.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> My rebound stack has 12mm O.D. Shims in place of the 13mm, and the shim marked "Remove for MY21is also not present. Is this another running change to speed up the rebound or should the 12mm OD shims in fact be 13mm on my rebound stack?
> 
> Fork is a MY21.
> View attachment 1948132


Yes it should be lighter with the 12's, by how much is hard to tell. 
You can work out the surface area % change from 13's to 12's but whether that is reflected by the same % force change I'll leave for someone with more knowledge of things that go squish.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

cashews said:


> Yes it should be lighter with the 12's, by how much is hard to tell.
> You can work out the surface area % change from 13's to 12's but whether that is reflected by the same % force change I'll leave for someone with more knowledge of things that go squish.


Yeah, I'm aware it will be lighter with smaller diameter shims, just hoping for some clarification on what the standard Mezzer rebound shim stack is currently, and what the previous stacks were. Some have posted 13mm are standard, at least one other has posted 12mm are standard, and the number varies, as do the recommendations regarding modification of the rebound stack.

I was never content with the Mezzer's stock rebound, my specific fork at least. The stock stack was too fast in general, and especially disappointing in fast chunky terrain.


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

hey folks and maybe @Dougal

Just clarifying - on the damper - the shim to remove is the 17.5 shim. Its sits at the top and there is ONLY 1 17.5 on that stack? There are no "extra" shims from Manitou etc to address?

THANKS!!


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> Yeah, I'm aware it will be lighter with smaller diameter shims, just hoping for some clarification on what the standard Mezzer rebound shim stack is currently, and what the previous stacks were. Some have posted 13mm are standard, at least one other has posted 12mm are standard, and the number varies, as do the recommendations regarding modification of the rebound stack.
> 
> I was never content with the Mezzer's stock rebound, my specific fork at least. The stock stack was too fast in general, and especially disappointing in fast chunky terrain.


mine is a 5/2020 build and has the MY21 rebound stack from factory: piston 13,9,13. clamp shims
EDIT -The earlier MY20? tune was piston 13,9,13.13 clamp shims.
The current factory stack MY22?, appears to be: piston 12,9,12, clamp shims


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

kamper11 said:


> hey folks and maybe @Dougal
> 
> Just clarifying - on the damper - the shim to remove is the 17.5 shim. Its sits at the top and there is ONLY 1 17.5 on that stack? There are no "extra" shims from Manitou etc to address?
> 
> THANKS!!


stock tune : piston, 20,17.5,17.5, clamp shims.

modified tunes
dougals tune : piston, 20,17.5,12, clamp shims.
light tune: piston, 20,17.5 ,clamp shims.

You remove either the first or 2nd 17.5 shim after the face shim (20), doesn't matter which, if you want the light tune.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

cashews said:


> The earlier MY20? tune was piston 13,13,9,13. clamp shims


Typo?
Have seen a stack listed as Piston-13-9-13-13 but not Piston -13-13-9-13.

Thanks for the reply


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

kamper11 said:


> hey folks and maybe @Dougal
> 
> Just clarifying - on the damper - the shim to remove is the 17.5 shim. Its sits at the top and there is ONLY 1 17.5 on that stack? There are no "extra" shims from Manitou etc to address?
> 
> THANKS!!


First post in this thread has a link to detailed instructions on accessing and modifying the compression shim stack.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> Typo?
> Have seen a stack listed as Piston-13-9-13-13 but not Piston -13-13-9-13.
> 
> Thanks for the reply


yes, good pickup, will edit original.


----------



## Mike_ride_bike (Apr 5, 2021)

Just wondering - what would be the benefit of 17.5 shim removal VS using lower air pressures?
Heard about the light tune - light as for light riders?

I'm 75kg (165lbs) geared up on Ripmo V1 set to 160mm.
Can't find anything to complain about mezzer pro - plush at the beginning of the stroke, superb coil-like active and amazing mid support, really nice ramp up and bottom out.
Nice, controlled bottom outs on 3-4 feet drops.
Maybe a little faster rebound would be nice on repeated medium hits and rock gardens.

The main chamber set to 38 psi (same rebranded digital shock pump), IRT 49 psi, rebound 3 clicks from fully open, HSC - fully open, LSC - 3-6 clicks from fully open.
The date of manufacture is 11/2020.
I just did 25-hour maintenance.

Thanks!


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> I was never content with the Mezzer's stock rebound, my specific fork at least. The stock stack was too fast in general, and especially disappointing in fast chunky terrain.


Unless you are super lightweight and running the fork long, I don't see how that is possible.

Are you gauging rebound speed by bounce testing it, or trail performance?

I have removed a shim from the rebound stack, still run the adjuster full fast, and it perfectly balances with the Mara Pro (at recommended rebound setting).

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

CCS86 said:


> Unless you are super lightweight and running the fork long, I don't see how that is possible.
> 
> Are you gauging rebound speed by bounce testing it, or trail performance?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Perhaps we had different stock tunes. There are at least three floating about.

I don't tune for trail performance. Bounce test in sandals is all that concerns me.

Joking aside, having tried 6 different compression tunes, and 4 different rebound tunes, I can say that changing the rebound stack (from my stock piston-12-9-12 configuration) had more positive effect on ride quality than adjusting the compression stack. My stock rebound tune was very disappointing for aggressive riding.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> Perhaps we had different stock tunes. There are at least three floating about.
> 
> I don't tune for trail performance. Bounce test in sandals is all that concerns me.
> 
> Joking aside, having tried 6 different compression tunes, and 4 different rebound tunes, I can say that changing the rebound stack (from my stock piston-12-9-12 configuration) had more positive effect on ride quality than adjusting the compression stack. My stock rebound tune was very disappointing for aggressive riding.


What makes you feel it is too fast?


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

For starters, front end bouncing up off the ground after landing a drop…

What is your rebound stack?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Sorry to disrupt your rebound discussion, but I have to ask, since I'll have a Mezzer sitting in a box for a few months till I get a bike to put it on (couldn't pass a deal), is a digital shock pump really necessary, or can I get by with a 300psi analogue one? I can realistically get +-5psi accuracy out of it by taking middle positions, finer wouldn't be very repetitive I don't think.
For the mattoc +-10 psi changes are small enough imo, but here I see ppl mentioning +-2 psi increments 😅 I don't see myself being this anal about it tbh. (I've seen about this much variation in tire pressure from morning cold to midday warm @16psi)
Will probably chime in for some other answers of I'll not be able to find them using the search function, the fork is supposed to have the newest replacement set of lowers, production date unknown (bought late 2020) but probably early runs with "old" tune etc. since the lowers were from the faulty batch.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> For starters, front end bouncing up off the ground after landing a drop&#8230;
> 
> What is your rebound stack?


That's weird. I'm running the MY21 stack with the adjuster full fast, fork at 150mm, and hit lots of big drops (sometimes to flat) and jumps. Always very composed after landing.


13 x 6 x 0.1
9 x 6 x 0.1
13 x 6 x 0.1
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
12 x 6 x 1.0

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

He might be riding the back of the bike too much, that would cause the front to bounce no matter what, can even result in flipping backwards under "proper" circumstances 😜


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

CCS86 said:


> That's weird. I'm running the MY21 stack with the adjuster full fast, fork at 150mm, and hit lots of big drops (sometimes to flat) and jumps. Always very composed after landing.
> 
> 
> 13 x 6 x 0.1
> ...


My stack had 12mm O.D. in place of your 13mm, so it was softer. I also run higher pressure than suggested for my weight to give more mid stroke support on steeps.


----------



## upsha (Jun 1, 2017)

nmxtrdr said:


> My stack had 12mm O.D. in place of your 13mm, so it was softer. I also run higher pressure than suggested for my weight to give more mid stroke support on steeps.


Assuming the piston and port geometry are the same, and both 13mm and 12mm seal the port properly, the impact to damping force should be negligible. The leverage of pressure acting on the shim is defined mostly by the port, not the shim.

When the face shim and piston diameter are vey close, the ring area could be a limiting throat though.

Anyhow, there must be a reason for changing 13mm to 12mm, but I am not sure what is it.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Sharing my set up. (82kg kitted up) - provides plenty of support and bump compliance.

27.5 170mm (mk1 transition patrol)
Main 50psi
IRT 75psi
LSC/HSC fully open
Rebound to taste

Kind of riding and ability in video


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Did you try any other bars before the One Up bars? How are the One Ups? 

Looks like you are bang on the recommended settings for the CCS86 pressure calc?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I love my carbon OneUp bars.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

cassieno said:


> Did you try any other bars before the One Up bars? How are the One Ups?
> 
> Looks like you are bang on the recommended settings for the CCS86 pressure calc?


I've had various bars and the major difference between them has been not getting the rotation or brake lever position correct. 
Spank oozy vibrocore 760mm
Spank spike vibrocore 800 mm
easton carbon 711mm
spank spoon 785mm

Currently running a nukeproof 800mm (35mm clamp) on my hardtail as well.

I get no arm pump or finger pain from all the braking I do on trails.


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

kamper11 said:


> hey folks and maybe @Dougal
> 
> Just clarifying - on the damper - the shim to remove is the 17.5 shim. Its sits at the top and there is ONLY 1 17.5 on that stack? There are no "extra" shims from Manitou etc to address?
> 
> THANKS!!


Update and reference.

Fork is working so much better after a service, oil, damper bleed AND Damper shim stack mod.
My fork had 2 17.5mm shims on the damper stack.
Removed 1.
Should I have tech remove the 1 remaining?

Seems some have found 2, some only had 1....

thanks


----------



## dclxvi (Jul 18, 2008)

I just stumble on the Mezzer User Setups spreadsheet and I can't figure out what the CSS86 Pressure Calc is for. Can someone explain the difference vs. the Manitou recommendation? Why is it better or worst for some? What is it trying to achieve vs the manufacturer guideline? I've been happy with the "stock" settings but I'll obviously be happier if i can squeeze more out of it!


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

dclxvi said:


> I just stumble on the Mezzer User Setups spreadsheet and I can't figure out what the CSS86 Pressure Calc is for. Can someone explain the difference vs. the Manitou recommendation? Why is it better or worst for some? What is it trying to achieve vs the manufacturer guideline? I've been happy with the "stock" settings but I'll obviously be happier if i can squeeze more out of it!


It is adjusted to suggest pressures inline with what the average of MTBR users prefer. Most people feel the Manitou rec's are too high.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Just bought a "New in Box" Mezzer off Pinkbike from a private party.. noticed there was a thin coat of oil all over the fork and other things in the box.. cycled the fork and heard gurgling. took the knobs off, and saw oil was coming out the top of the damper! If I can repair this, I'd rather do that then try to return it cause this fork is so hard to find. What can I do to stop the leak?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Depending on how good of a deal you got, might want to take the damper apart and see if the adjuster shaft oring isn't damaged, seems like the bubbling us coming front here


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> Depending on how good of a deal you got, might want to take the damper apart and see if the adjuster shaft oring isn't damaged, seems like the bubbling us coming front here


It is at the base of the adjuster I believe or rather what the adjuster is mounted on that goes into the damper.. No clue on how to do anything beyond air spring service / damper bleed. Are there instructions anywhere I can look at to see if it's feasible for me? And also if it is the adjuster shaft o-ring, where can I find that?


----------



## dclxvi (Jul 18, 2008)

CCS86 said:


> It is adjusted to suggest pressures inline with what the average of MTBR users prefer. Most people feel the Manitou rec's are too high.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Gotcha, thanks!


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

So, received my Mezzer in post, it has a 2019 set of lowers, but with the updated decals, there are spots for bleed screws cast in, but there are no holes, bottom out bumpers are rubber, split in one spot- are those the updated ones? There is a lot less friction and striction than there is in my Mattoc, and this one isn't even broken in yet, the damping feels quite firm, even with dials wide open, definitely want to remove one of the shims, to be able to play with the dials 😜
Is the HSC setup similar to the mattocs (preload on shims), or is it more like a poppet valve (spring backed)?
Rebound seems quick enough, @40 psi, will have to wait till I have a bike to put it on.
IRT was definitely dry, main chamber has plenty of grease, there is plenty of semi bath oil (though the fork was in for warranty service, so that's expected), there were flakes of paint inside the lowers (probably from seal install), don't think they could have damaged anything, cleaned anyway.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

piciu256 said:


> So, received my Mezzer in post, it has a 2019 set of lowers, but with the updated decals, there are spots for bleed screws cast in, but there are no holes, bottom out bumpers are rubber, split in one spot- are those the updated ones?...
> 
> ...IRT was definitely dry


Those are the first version of updated bumpers, they looked just like the original bumpers just with the addition of the split, I assume that is exactly what they were with the split allowing them to be opened up a bit, they have a steel core. They have since gone to a different looking and better version of an unsplit bumper ring.

My IRT was dry on the inside with a big glop of grease on the bottom of the IRT piston. Otherwise it was well lubed. This was from an original version fork with the unsplit early bumpers.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

So you say they are fine? Good to hear. Another thing, should I drill and tap the holes for bleed screws or leave them alone? 😜
Also, can the damper assembly be taken out of the fork by just unscrewing the top cap, like any other "cartridge" damper? I want to play with the shims and change the oil (just beacuse), but don't want to have the whole fork lying in pieces.
@esit I'll answer myself, yes the cartridge just pulls out the top, also, the adjuster setup seems like a hybrid of a poppet and shim stack, if that makes sense.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

@edIT removed one of the spacer shims, rebound stack now as in my21 forks, didn't see any dish to the piston (and it defo wasn't lapped by anyone) and putting the stack together confirms that- there is exactly .1mm of gap between the first and second shim, I think I like this idea more than the stock Mattoc setup (2 shims stacked one on another), if I understand correctly, should provide more controlled rebound than a wide open bleed port would, with no packing down.


----------



## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

I think I have a tech issue or 2 and am looking for feedback before I put the fork back together (if I even do as I will be contacting Manitou)

I took the lowers off for an oil change and the damper appears to be letting go of fluid. It kept on draining from the bottom of the stanchion at the plastic piece and I don't remember it doing that the first oil change. Could bath oil get in there and is that ok or is the damper pooched?
2nd, the stanchions are slightly worn where they sit in the fork lowers from the bushings. I can very clearly tell it is the bushings because the wear is in the same pattern as the bushing. (I'm definitely contacting manitou as it seems the bushing may be too tight which I have heard others say)

thanks,
DT


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Oil seeping slowly to the bottom might be normal, but to be sure that it's not the damper itself leaking- just take it out, do so by removing the adjuster knobs and unscrewing the top cap, should slide right out.
Wear pattern definitely sounds like tight/ misaligned bushings, make sure it's not just an oil pattern, my fork leaves a pattern on the stanchions too, but it moves around as I cycle the fork (and wipes away with solvent), it's a result of the shiny black colour I guess.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

My set-up is significantly different than the Manitou owners manual and the google sheets file. 
This is for the 160mm Mezzer pro on a 63 degree head angle hardtail.
Rider weight: 195 lbs
Main: 40 psi
IRT: 60 psi
lsc: 4
hsc: 0
rebound: 2-4 (need to verify)

It's frustrating how far off Manitou's starting point is. I would not have been able to ballpark it at all based on their set-up information. I saw Dougal's comment on pinkbike about the pressures he was running (20psi / 30 psi less than the reviewer). His comment and my friend saying "you have way too much air. Lower it don't be afraid of it diving, that's what the lsc is for." Convinced me to drop my pressures way down. This fork seems to be when in doubt drop it down. 

It feels great now. Like a smoother plusher version of my Fox 34 Grip2.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Seems weird seeing your values just 10 psi higher than recommended for me @120lps/ 55kg, aspecially with 20mm less travel, and the recommended for me seems awfully low (I tend to gravitate towards the Manitou chart with my Mattoc)
It's either the flat head angle, or you're not charging at all, it's not practical to rely on damper only for support if you ride aggressively in any way, and you have it way open in any case 🙃
But hey, if it works for you, more the better.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I agree!. I don't understand it. My trails don't have many drops (nothing really over 3-4 feet, and infrequent). I can always be faster. But, on rocky baby headed trails I am in the top 5-10% of strava local riders (the truly fast guys are usually in the top 2.5% range). 

I am relying on the IRT + HBO+HSC+airspring ramp if anything goes wrong (and so far it hasn't). I also don't have any truly big hits I I need to worry about. 

Mostly it's the inconsistency of set-up that is infuriating to me.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Maybe your negative spring isn't equalizing properly and you are compensating with very low pressures.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Maybe your negative spring isn't equalizing properly and you are compensating with very low pressures.


How would I check? When I connect my shockpump I can raise / lower it through the travel.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

cassieno said:


> How would I check? When I connect my shockpump I can raise / lower it through the travel.


With the pump connected, if you can easily push the fork to bottom out a few times, it should be fine.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

For the Mezzer Pro damper, Manitou suggested Maxima 5w vs Motorex 2.5w? Pros/Cons?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I'd say it doesn't matter that much, they have similar viscosity, I changed mine to Silkolene 2.5, because I like the sound it makes over Motorex  and it made the rebound a little quicker at the lowest setting.
Unless you're at the bottom range of pressures, just use whichever avaible.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> With the pump connected, if you can easily push the fork to bottom out a few times, it should be fine.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Connected to the IRT or the main?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

jmvar said:


> Connected to the IRT or the main?


Main.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

cassieno said:


> My set-up is significantly different than the Manitou owners manual and the google sheets file.
> This is for the 160mm Mezzer pro on a 63 degree head angle hardtail.
> Rider weight: 195 lbs
> Main: 40 psi
> ...


Something's off.

I've had two different Mezzers and I run those same settings, BUT I weigh 145lbs.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Don't know what to say. I connected the pump and pressed it up and down a bunch of times. I'll see if it feels any different on the trails. But feels the same bouncing around at home. Fox / RS / MRP I have always been in the ballpark with them.

It feels good though. So I am very happy with that. And I love the big fork on a hardtail feel.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Penny said:


> Something's off.
> 
> I've had two different Mezzers and I run those same settings, BUT I weigh 145lbs.





cassieno said:


> Don't know what to say. I connected the pump and pressed it up and down a bunch of times. I'll see if it feels any different on the trails. But feels the same bouncing around at home. Fox / RS / MRP I have always been in the ballpark with them.
> 
> It feels good though. So I am very happy with that. And I love the big fork on a hardtail feel.


How would the travel set up for the fork affect the the pressure run in the main and IRT? Maybe that is a partial explanation for the different air pressures that we see in addition to personal preference, terrain, ability , rider weight?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

The less travel, the more pressure you have to run, partially cause the negative chamber is a bit enlarged, partially because you need higher spring rate for the same bottom out force with less stroke.


----------



## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

cassieno said:


> Don't know what to say. I connected the pump and pressed it up and down a bunch of times. I'll see if it feels any different on the trails. But feels the same bouncing around at home. Fox / RS / MRP I have always been in the ballpark with them.
> 
> It feels good though. So I am very happy with that. And I love the big fork on a hardtail feel.


The last couple weeks I have been experimenting with Dougal's lower PSI with more compression settings. For the most part I like it. For me it is definitely a faster setup but it has lost some of the poppy fun.

The good:
It eats up chunk scary well.
Sticks to the ground on uneven terrain.
If seated technical climbing is better.

The bad:
It has more bob when standing and mashing with both sprinting and tech climbing.
The rebound is now too slow. I have the rebound full open and I have had to slow down my Mara Pro 4 clicks to keep the balance.
Not as much pop now.

150mm front/140mm rear
Rider weight: 188 lbs
Main: 46.5 psi
IRT: 67 psi
LCS: 0 (from closed)
HSC: 4 (from closed) (replaced 17.5mm shim with 12mm)
Rebound: 10 (from closed)


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Do you have the updated my21 rebound shim stack?


----------



## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

piciu256 said:


> Do you have the updated my21 rebound shim stack?


I don't think so. I purchased the fork July of 2020. Is the 21 rebound stack faster?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Yes, one less shim, check the first page/post.


----------



## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

I just looked at that and was about to reply. Thanks.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

TerryLM said:


> The last couple weeks I have been experimenting with Dougal's lower PSI with more compression settings. For the most part I like it. For me it is definitely a faster setup but it has lost some of the poppy fun.
> 
> The good:
> It eats up chunk scary well.
> ...


My settings are a lot closer to yours than the Manitou recommendations or CS86 calculator:

Banshee Prime 150mm front/135mm rear
Rider weight: 200 lbs
Main: 50 psi
IRT: 80 psi
LCS: 4 out
HSC: 1 in
Rebound: 7 out (from closed)

(Note the above are updated from my prior settings. I was at 52/85 with LS nearly open and pretty happy, but decided to drop slightly and and some compression, so dropped to the above settings, added a good amount of LS and one click of high speed. Fork felt too soft pushing it in the garage and I was worried about dive, but on the trail was noticeably plusher and no dive issues.)

My son at 160, but a much faster rider is pretty good at 46/75, with the rebound 8 out.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Help! Put the bottom air cap on without fully tightening the footnut.. now I can't remove the aircap. there's a tiny gap between the footnut and the fork lowers, and no gap between the aircap and the footnut. I put some white out on the cap and the tiny sliver of the footnut that is visible and both the footnut and the aircap do spin together when i try to spin. it feels hard to move in either direciton, but it does move, and it seems like it can go on for quite a while in either direction. I don't want to mess with it too much in case i damage something.. so confusing. Spinning it in either direction doesn't seem to change the gap between footnut/casting or between the aircap and footnut.

Any solutions?


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

tastik said:


> Help! Put the bottom air cap on without fully tightening the footnut.. now I can't remove the aircap. there's a tiny gap between the footnut and the fork lowers, and no gap between the aircap and the footnut. I put some white out on the cap and the tiny sliver of the footnut that is visible and both the footnut and the aircap do spin together when i try to spin. it feels hard to move in either direciton, but it does move, but it seems like it can go on for quite a while in either direction. I don't want to mess with it too much in case i damage something.. so confusing. Spinning it in either direction doesn't seem to change the gap between footnut/casting or between the aircap and footnut.
> 
> Any solutions?


2 possible solutions, there are likely others but be very careful when trying each.

1) gently wedge a shim of some type into the gap from the nut to the casting to try & put resistance on the nut to stop it spinning when trying to undo the air cap. it's only 4Nm for the nut to lowers so don't go crazy with pressure from the shim or you may snap the air shaft foot assembly.
you can try flipping the bike over remove the wheel & pull on the arch or Axel to extend the fork to add pressure to the shim when trying to undo the air cap.
if you have a heat gun repeat the process after heating up the air cap & see if that works.

2) Cut the air cap with a hacksaw/dremel about 2-3mm above there it touches the nut, go round the whole air cap & only cut just through the air cap. 
This should release the pressure between them & you should be able to remove the air cap. 
You may need to cut & remove the "ring" you just created if it doesn't move, so you can then use a flat screwdriver in the new gap against the nut to hold it, as you unwind the air cap.
The air cap will now be shorter so just be careful when putting it back on to not tighten it too much.
I would then pull apart the air side & clean throughly in case filings made their way into the lowers.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

cashews said:


> 2 possible solutions, there are likely others but be very careful when trying each.
> 
> 1) gently wedge a shim of some type between the gap from the nut to the casting to try & put resistance on the nut to stop it spinning when trying to undo the air cap. it's only 4nm for the nut to lowers so don't go crazy with the shim.
> 
> ...


Oh man.. 1st solution seems impossible.. 2nd seems..extreme..

Also I don't remember what it's like under the aircap.. how much airspace (i.e. margin of error) do i have behind the cap?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

tastik said:


> Help! Put the bottom air cap on without fully tightening the footnut.. now I can't remove the aircap. there's a tiny gap between the footnut and the fork lowers, and no gap between the aircap and the footnut. I put some white out on the cap and the tiny sliver of the footnut that is visible and both the footnut and the aircap do spin together when i try to spin. it feels hard to move in either direciton, but it does move, and it seems like it can go on for quite a while in either direction. I don't want to mess with it too much in case i damage something.. so confusing. Spinning it in either direction doesn't seem to change the gap between footnut/casting or between the aircap and footnut.
> 
> Any solutions?


It may or may not work. Take a 19mm 12 point socket and tap it onto the aircap (19mm is an interference fit, 20mm will spin, just checked this). Use a small electric impact driver to loosen (I use an 18v Makita). I have done this when trying to loosen lower nuts and the air or damper shaft spins. The impact develops enough instant torque and rotation that the mass of the air shaft doesn't accelerate before the friction of the threads is overcome.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Cary said:


> It may or may not work. Take a 19mm 12 point socket and tap it onto the aircap (19mm is an interference fit, 20mm will spin, just checked this). Use a small electric impact driver to loosen (I use an 18v Makita). I have done this when trying to loosen lower nuts and the air or damper shaft spins. The impact develops enough instant torque and rotation that the mass of the air shaft doesn't accelerate before the friction of the threads is overcome.


almost worked, it did budge (slight change in position between the cap and the nut). now the shaft now spins more freely though. I must have really tightened the cap down manipulating it before. not sure what to do except cut, but don't want to damage the airshaft under the cap.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

tastik said:


> almost worked, it did budge (slight change in position between the cap and the nut). now the shaft now spins more freely though. I must have really tightened the cap down manipulating it before. not sure what to do except cut, but don't want to damage the airshaft under the cap.


Put weight on the fork and try with it compressed. You can use a ratchet strap to hold it compressed. If that doesn't work try pulling on the lowers while hitting with the impact.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

tastik said:


> almost worked, it did budge (slight change in position between the cap and the nut). now the shaft now spins more freely though. I must have really tightened the cap down manipulating it before. not sure what to do except cut, but don't want to damage the airshaft under the cap.


try the impact driver again but with the shim, can you fit a bit of sandpaper in there?, have the abrasive side towards the nut, or something thats really sticky that you can clean off after, the air cap has a nylon thread insert so can be a challenge to break free in this situation.

if you resort to cutting , you can check your clearance by pulling the rebound knob & looking at the nut/inner cover clearance. 
I removed mine by cutting, took my time & didn't damage the airshaft or nut at all.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

cashews said:


> try the impact driver again but with the shim, can you fit a bit of sandpaper in there?, have the abrasive side towards the nut, or something thats really sticky that you can clean off after, the air cap has a nylon thread insert so can be a challenge to break free in this situation.
> 
> if you resort to cutting , you can check your clearance by pulling the rebound knob & looking at the nut/inner cover clearance.
> I removed mine by cutting, took my time & didn't damage the airshaft or nut at all.


Kicking myself over this mistake.. and how the consequences for what seemed so innocent are so disastrous lol. If the airspring is damaged from cutting or even from stripped threads, I can't even find this part for sale anywhere😭

tried to compress and unwind with impact driver, didn't work, but increased the gap between footnut and casting and im guessing that makes it harder to seperate them, but created enough room to put stuff between footnut and casting. Tried sandpaper and rubberbands, they all get chewed up. Someone mentioned shims dont know of anything strong and thin enough and with lots of friction both sides. Anyone with ideas on what I can put in there?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

tastik said:


> Kicking myself over this mistake.. and how the consequences for what seemed so innocent are so disastrous lol. If the airspring is damaged from cutting or even from stripped threads, I can't even find this part for sale anywhere?
> 
> tried to compress and unwind with impact driver, didn't work, but increased the gap between footnut and casting and im guessing that makes it harder to seperate them, but created enough room to put stuff between footnut and casting. Tried sandpaper and rubberbands, they all get chewed up. Someone mentioned shims dont know of anything strong and thin enough and with lots of friction both sides. Anyone with ideas on what I can put in there?


Two hail mary possibilities:

1) With the fork compressed take a piece of bailing wire, wrap between the gap in the footnut and casting and use pliers to twist the ends to tighten into the gap. Bailing wire is pretty malleable and may form into the gap and provide the extra friction to keep the shaft from spinning by taking up the space between the footnut and lower.

2) Try the same thing but with loctite of anothe adhesive that can be cleaned afterwards, fill the gap, compress and let dry.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Cary said:


> Two hail mary possibilities:
> 
> 1) With the fork compressed take a piece of bailing wire, wrap between the gap in the footnut and casting and use pliers to twist the ends to tighten into the gap. Bailing wire is pretty malleable and may form into the gap and provide the extra friction to keep the shaft from spinning by taking up the space between the footnut and lower.
> 
> 2) Try the same thing but with loctite of anothe adhesive that can be cleaned afterwards, fill the gap, compress and let dry.


1. worth a shot maybe, just afraid the wire will damage the casting where the foot nut is supposed to seal against oil leaks. i'll explore this thanks

2. can't imagine any adhesive holding up on those surfaces especially with the the torque i feel is needed.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tastik said:


> 1. worth a shot maybe, just afraid the wire will damage the casting where the foot nut is supposed to seal against oil leaks. i'll explore this thanks
> 
> 2. can't imagine any adhesive holding up on those surfaces especially with the the torque i feel is needed.


1. Try the same trick with string and wrap it tight as you can in layers.

2. Take the air top-cap off carefully and use a rubber pad on a rod to trap the air-piston from above.
3. If you have IRT, take the piston & bolt off, use the IRT cap to put 150psi in the positive to load up the air-shaft.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Dougal said:


> 1. Try the same trick with string and wrap it tight as you can in layers.
> 
> 2. Take the air top-cap off carefully and use a rubber pad on a rod to trap the air-piston from above.
> 3. If you have IRT, take the piston & bolt off, use the IRT cap to put 150psi in the positive to load up the air-shaft.


I have the IRT, so ignore #2 (not sure what you mean by trapping the air piston) and do #1 along with #3 right?

So is this correct?:
1. wrap string tight between footnut and casting.
2. remove the IRT and disassemble it (do i just turn the hex head counter-clockwise?) and then reinstall only the top cap and pump to 150 psi.

there is pressure in the main spring as well, would removing the IRT cause the main spring to shoot up and damage anything including my face?


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

tastik said:


> I have the IRT, so ignore #2 (not sure what you mean by trapping the air piston) and do #1 along with #3 right?
> 
> So is this correct?:
> 1. wrap string tight between footnut and casting.
> ...


1) yes, wrap string around the threads tightly on the shaft to hold it while you try to undo the air cap.
2) the piston is pinned to the airshaft so it spins when the shaft spins, holding it still stops the shaft spinning.
you may be able to compress the fork to bring the piston closer but it's still down in the tube, hence the stick & pad.
3) an alternate to physically holding the piston, using air instead. you remove the irt piston so you can inflate the main using the irt Schrader valve.

2&3 require undoing the top cap with main air still there, be very very careful if you unthread the top cap as you can turn the irt assembly into a bullet.
I'd personally persist with option 1 first , then resort to cutting the air cap before I attempted unthreading the top cap, those with more experience will be more confident with releasing the air via unthreading the top cap.

when I cut mine I took my time, but it literally only took under 15mins to cut & get the cap off.
I had persisted for over an hour with the other options suggested previously, although I didn't think of the string option suggested above at the time.
I wrapped a cloth in the gap & as soon as you see your just through the cap with the 1st cut just spin the cap & work you way around.
I then promptly stripped the air side & cleaned everything to be sure.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

So er... small update.. just wrapped with string to try that alone first. tried compressing and pulling on the fork, feeling frustrated. and while pulling and just gunning the impact driver with with my teeth gritted, the casting came off the uppers, but all I did was unscrew the actual schrader valve from from the air shaft (the threads in the airshaft look fine, the air spring still slides as far as I can tell, and holds air. Was able to release the air pushing the rod inside the shaft that the shrader valve i guess normally pushes on to release air).

Knob and nut along with the red schrader valve are still stuck down at the bottom, but ofc, spins more freely (together). (photo from website showing the part that i unscrewed from the shaft)

How fucked am I here?


Another update: was able to get a stronger thicker flat rubberband between the casting and nut. turned cap counter clockwise with impact driver. chewed the rubberband up, but now the footnut seems to be tight against the casting. in fact it's air tight (felt it when trying to put lowers on the stanchions), and i can't create that gap anymore and it's hard to turn now. turning with the impact driver still turns everything together >.<

Time to cut? Anyone know where I can buy foot nut, aircap and that valve/thread assembly?


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

cashews said:


> when I cut mine I took my time, but it literally only took under 15mins to cut & get the cap off.
> I had persisted for over an hour with the other options suggested previously, although I didn't think of the string option suggested above at the time.
> I wrapped a cloth in the gap & as soon as you see your just through the cap with the 1st cut just spin the cap & work you way around.
> I then promptly stripped the air side & cleaned everything to be sure.


does this look like an ok place to be cutting?


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

tastik said:


> does this look like an ok place to be cutting?


yes that looks fine, just follow that line all the way round.
Make sure you only just get through the cap as you move around & you shouldn't damage the foot nut or threaded shaft.
mine is now 15mm long after cutting then sanding/filing it flat after I got it off, although I just use a metal car valve cover these days.

As for spares I'd contact Hayes , I know you can buy the air cap & rebound knob as a spare part.
The airshaft threaded bolt I don't know, if anyone knows a SKU let me know as my Schrader threads are looking well worn.
Hopefully yours emerges unscathed, if it unwound from the airshaft it should be o.k in theory.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

cashews said:


> yes that looks fine, just follow that line all the way round.
> Make sure you only just get through the cap as you move around & you shouldn't damage the foot nut or threaded shaft.
> mine is now 15mm long after cutting then sanding/filing it flat after I got it off, although I just use a metal car valve cover these days.
> 
> ...


Cutting the cap worked! the cap unscrewed pretty easily after that. All the threads work fine still😁

Thanks for everyone's help!


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

tastik said:


> Cutting the cap worked! the cap unscrewed pretty easily after that. All the threads work fine still😁
> 
> Thanks for everyone's help!


Hurray!!!


----------



## Enurjetik (Apr 24, 2007)

Can anyone recommend a relatively inexpensive ($20 USD or less) cassette tool that works to change the travel without having to make alterations to the cassette tool? I've noticed in the videos that you can avoid using a split cassette tool if you push the air spring all the way in but that that non-split tool has to fit around the end of the air spring rod. This tool looks like it is wide enough, but it's tough to tell from the pictures.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Enurjetik said:


> Can anyone recommend a relatively inexpensive ($20 USD or less) cassette tool that works to change the travel without having to make alterations to the cassette tool? I've noticed in the videos that you can avoid using a split cassette tool if you push the air spring all the way in but that that non-split tool has to fit around the end of the air spring rod. This tool looks like it is wide enough, but it's tough to tell from the pictures.


I just used this








Park Tool FR-5.2 Bike Cassette Lockring Remover Tool fit Shimano SRAM 7-12 speed | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Park Tool FR-5.2 Bike Cassette Lockring Remover Tool fit Shimano SRAM 7-12 speed at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





If you get the air spring fully compressed (make sure the schrader valve is fully pushed in to release all the air). Should be able to use most any unless it's really short


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

CCS86 said:


> 8 x 17.5 x 0.1 ←[Dougal replaced with a 12mm, others remove it completely]


is this a 12mm x 0.1mm shim? anyone know where I can buy one?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tastik said:


> is this a 12mm x 0.1mm shim? anyone know where I can buy one?


Don't avalanche sell shims?


----------



## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

tastik said:


> is this a 12mm x 0.1mm shim? anyone know where I can buy one?








Shims Suspension Direct


Suspension Direct in a vendor and manufacturer of suspension parts for Motocross and UTV Applications, selling brands such as WP, Showa, KYB, Walker Evans, and Fox




www.suspensiondirect.com


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Enurjetik said:


> Can anyone recommend a relatively inexpensive ($20 USD or less) cassette tool that works to change the travel without having to make alterations to the cassette tool? I've noticed in the videos that you can avoid using a split cassette tool if you push the air spring all the way in but that that non-split tool has to fit around the end of the air spring rod. This tool looks like it is wide enough, but it's tough to tell from the pictures.


Not 100% sure you wont have to drill out the center but pretty sure the center bore is big enough and the price looks decent. Manitou sells the UNIOR tool with side cutout in their service kit. 

UNIOR Shimano/SRAM Cassette Lockring Tool - 1670.5/4

UNIOR 1670.5/4 Spec Sheet

I typically remove the rubber washer and my spin doctor lock ring tool works, but I did bore it out slightly.


----------



## mmmmtnbkr1 (Jul 21, 2013)

Anyone tried coiling a Mezzer? @Dougal do you know how much effort it would be, or if it's even possible, to throw a smashpot in one by making custom topcap and footnut?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mmmmtnbkr1 said:


> Anyone tried coiling a Mezzer? @Dougal do you know how much effort it would be, or if it's even possible, to throw a smashpot in one by making custom topcap and footnut?


I haven't. I was going to 2 years ago and found a coil (160mm Nixon) that would work but never did it.
the smashpot spring kits will require a fair bit of design to fit. The Mezzer Pro already has HB) and the foot attachment is quite diffferent to Fox/RS.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Has anyone tried using the Shockwiz for the Mezzar and know it that tool is compatible ?


----------



## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Don't think it works with multiple chambers.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

jacksonlui said:


> Has anyone tried using the Shockwiz for the Mezzar and know it that tool is compatible ?


doesn't work on the mezzer or any other dual positive chamber fork.


----------



## danger_dario (Sep 30, 2020)

Barely works on a single chamber, in my experience. Poor little guy has a hard time telling what's going on at the wheel and handlebar just based on the change in air pressure alone.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

danger_dario said:


> Barely works on a single chamber, in my experience. Poor little guy has a hard time telling what's going on at the wheel and handlebar just based on the change in air pressure alone.


Seems to do a decent job determiningg dynamic sag and helping optimizing at least the HSC. it's been a while since I've owned one. Sold it after I went full coil.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Finally got this fork up and running and yes, it's the best fork I've ever tried for sure.. just some questions about compression tuning:

What is the weight range of any particular stack? for example if everything is open and that suits someone who is 160lb, at what weight would this fork suit with all the dials closed?

I see people talking about what weight/type of rider a particular compression tuning would suit (for example I've seen Dougal mention the MY20 stock tuning suits a 90kg "aggressive" rider. Does that mean that tuning suits someone of that description with the dials open, in the middle, closed?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tastik said:


> Finally got this fork up and running and yes, it's the best fork I've ever tried for sure.. just some questions about compression tuning:
> 
> What is the weight range of any particular stack? for example if everything is open and that suits someone who is 160lb, at what weight would this fork suit with all the dials closed?
> 
> I see people talking about what weight/type of rider a particular compression tuning would suit (for example I've seen Dougal mention the MY20 stock tuning suits a 90kg "aggressive" rider. Does that mean that tuning suits someone of that description with the dials open, in the middle, closed?


The LSC circuit is made to choke out quickly leaving you with HSC doing pretty much everything. With the right stack you'll be running LSC between half closed and closed. If you have to run LSC open it suggests the HSC stack is too firm for your riding.

Bike geometry also changes fork loading.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Dougal said:


> The LSC circuit is made to choke out quickly leaving you with HSC doing pretty much everything. With the right stack you'll be running LSC between half closed and closed. If you have to run LSC open it suggests the HSC stack is too firm for your riding.
> 
> Bike geometry also changes fork loading.


so what would you say is the weight range within those 4-5 clicks of ideal LSC? also since there is a hsc dial as well, i guess what does that do to the rider weight range for a particular stack? How would say a MY21 stack with HSC/LSC closed feel compared to a MY20 LSC in middle, open HSC?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tastik said:


> so what would you say is the weight range within those 4-5 clicks of ideal LSC? also since there is a hsc dial as well, i guess what does that do to the rider weight range for a particular stack? How would say a MY21 stack with HSC/LSC closed feel compared to a MY20 LSC in middle, open HSC?


80-90kg.

The change in compression from MY20 to MY21 didn't happen. Rebound changed by dropping a shim.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Have to give props to Dougal…your recommendation for 35 main and 55 IRT with LSC fully closed (HSC full open) works fantastic for me when hauling ass down the mountain with proper intensity (not just noodling down). For reference, I am around 152 pounds out of the shower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Dougal said:


> 80-90kg.
> 
> The change in compression from MY20 to MY21 didn't happen. Rebound changed by dropping a shim.


hmm i thought they removed one of the 17mm shims from the compression stack in the my21


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

fizzywater said:


> Have to give props to Dougal…your recommendation for 35 main and 55 IRT with LSC fully closed (HSC full open) works fantastic for me when hauling ass down the mountain with proper intensity (not just noodling down). For reference, I am around 152 pounds out of the shower.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That was my experience too. I weigh the same as you.


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

tastik said:


> hmm i thought they removed one of the 17mm shims from the compression stack in the my21


Yes it happened, but probably from my19 to my20.
Idk why people here do like : "you asked the question wrong...here is a wrong answer" 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

romulin said:


> Yes it happened, but probably from my19 to my20.
> Idk why people here do like : "you asked the question wrong...here is a wrong answer"
> 
> Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


No it didn't happen.

The idea was floated by someone, but was disproven by Manitou directly, and everyone who opened their damper. They all came with two 17mm shims.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> No it didn't happen.
> 
> The idea was floated by someone, but was disproven by Manitou directly, and everyone who opened their damper. They all came with two 17mm shims.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I'd struggle to find dougal's post right now to quote. Anyway thanks for clarification 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tastik said:


> hmm i thought they removed one of the 17mm shims from the compression stack in the my21


They were going to, but didn't due to rider feedback. So all compression tunes to date are the same.


----------



## Carmel (Apr 21, 2014)

Dougal said:


> They were going to, but didn't due to rider feedback. So all compression tunes to date are the same.


So for lighter riders (say 70kg like me), would it make sense to remove it or not? 
I am going to open up the damper to check/change the rebound shimstack anyways.

Currently running 48/75 with Rebound full fast (seems too slow still), HSC open and LSC 2 clicks in. Would want to try less pressure and more LSC like previously suggested.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Carmel said:


> So for lighter riders (say 70kg like me), would it make sense to remove it or not?
> I am going to open up the damper to check/change the rebound shimstack anyways.
> 
> Currently running 48/75 with Rebound full fast (seems too slow still), HSC open and LSC 2 clicks in. Would want to try less pressure and more LSC like previously suggested.


Don’t think there is a one size fits all answer. I’d say it depends on how you want your suspension to perform and how you like it in its current state. For example, I hover between 67-70 kg and always felt the stock LSC damping was too firm for my taste and riding style. Always had to run LSC wide open regardless of pressures (experimented anywhere between 35/50 to 40/70). So, I decided to remove the shim and like it better than it was before and LSC adjustment is now usable for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Carmel said:


> So for lighter riders (say 70kg like me), would it make sense to remove it or not?
> I am going to open up the damper to check/change the rebound shimstack anyways.
> 
> Currently running 48/75 with Rebound full fast (seems too slow still), HSC open and LSC 2 clicks in. Would want to try less pressure and more LSC like previously suggested.


Swap one 17mm shim for a 12mm. 
I would only take the second 17mm shim out if you were ~60kg.


----------



## Carmel (Apr 21, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Swap one 17mm shim for a 12mm.
> I would only take the second 17mm shim out if you were ~60kg.


Thank you, I'll try that.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Anybody know if the old AVID / SRAM syringes will fit the fitting on the mezzer to bleed the damper? I believe the thread pitch is M5 x 0.8 on the fork.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Yes those syringes will work.

I tried to top off my fluid last night and...I couldn't! Got a few cc in there and then it just started acting like it was pressurized or full or something. I'm assuming this is just a "me" problem? Any ideas? Both legs acted the same. When I removed the syringe I got some bubbling out the fill holes and that was it.


----------



## nebio (Jul 25, 2019)

ungod said:


> Yes those syringes will work.
> 
> I tried to top off my fluid last night and...I couldn't! Got a few cc in there and then it just started acting like it was pressurized or full or something. I'm assuming this is just a "me" problem? Any ideas? Both legs acted the same. When I removed the syringe I got some bubbling out the fill holes and that was it.


I had a similar issue when trying to top off last week. I bought generic rockshox reverb syringe kit from Amazon as they have the fittings that fit the TSR ports. 

It was very hard to get any of the oil into the TSR ports - was feeling a lot of resistance.
With very slow constant pressure I do feel like I got a few cc in but then the oil started leaking out at the connection of the syringe to the fitting (Thinking some of that may have been due to the poor quality of the syringe kit )

The Orifice in the TSR port does seem pretty small – I wonder if it should be that difficult to push oil through them ?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Try drawing air out first, then injecting the oil.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Try drawing air out first, then injecting the oil.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Yup, this. Or put a zip tie through dust seals which is what I do. Gives displaced air somewhere to go.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Try drawing air out first, then injecting the oil.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I tried that too, "rocking" the syringe back and forth to pull some air out, push some oil in... Really not overly successful, although I'm also not using the official Mezzer syringe. 

I'll give the zip tie a try. At least this isn't just me


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

new owner of mezzer pro here. did setup according to the guide and i am super stoked about the for performance through chunk at speed. i cant however figure out how to get the fork work better at slow tech riding. there just seem to be too much low speed damping? even if my LSC is set to full open. is this something that can be further adjusted by IRT or dorado air chambers? what exactly do these two chambers do? what kind of adjustment to how the fork feels can i achieve, by changing pressure in either one?
thanks


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

What's your air spring set at?

The lower air valve is your main air spring. The upper IRT valve controls the "ramp up" of the fork, like tokens but infinitely adjustable.

I like to air up the top valve, the IRT, to way too high of a pressure (e.g. 100psi). Then use the lower valve to set sag, about 20%. 

Once you've set sag with the lower, adjust the upper IRT to be about 15psi more than the lower, and add/subtract air from there if you are having issues with bottom out or not enough travel.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

cavo said:


> new owner of mezzer pro here. did setup according to the guide and i am super stoked about the for performance through chunk at speed. i cant however figure out how to get the fork work better at slow tech riding. there just seem to be too much low speed damping? even if my LSC is set to full open. is this something that can be further adjusted by IRT or dorado air chambers? what exactly do these two chambers do? what kind of adjustment to how the fork feels can i achieve, by changing pressure in either one?
> thanks


Which guide, Manitou PDF or first post?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

ungod said:


> What's your air spring set at?
> 
> The lower air valve is your main air spring. The upper IRT valve controls the "ramp up" of the fork, like tokens but infinitely adjustable.
> 
> ...


ok, gotcha, good to know, so adjusting these two chambers will not solve my low speed compression problem i assume.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Which guide, Manitou PDF or first post?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


i used the guide that was included in the box with the fork.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

cavo said:


> i used the guide that was included in the box with the fork.


Read the first post of this thread. The whole point was to create something you could quickly read and take action on. There is a link to a pressure calculator and recommendations for the damper settings.

You posted asking for help, without giving any real specifics about your current setup, bike specs, or your own weight. No one can give you help without all that.

Better yet, start with the first post, help yourself, then post if you find yourself needing more.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Read the first post of this thread. The whole point was to create something you could quickly read and take action on. There is a link to a pressure calculator and recommendations for the damper settings.
> 
> You posted asking for help, without giving any real specifics about your current setup, bike specs, or your own weight. No one can give you help without all that.
> 
> ...


ok, thanks. will try to use pressure calculator instead of the manitou guide and see if anything improves with my lsc. i am on ripmo AF, fork at 160mm travel. 170lbs rtr.
there is also rider on the 1st tab on same bike with same weight as me, so will go to his setup as a alternative (it does differ from calculated values quite a bit)

thanks again


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I wouldn't just pick one person's setup off that list, at least as a starting point. Same bike doesn't equal same preferences.

Start with my pressure calculator and general damper guidance and see how it feels as a baseline. Then experiment to your heart's content.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

where do i find this "general damper guidance"?
thanks


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

cavo said:


> where do i find this "general damper guidance"?
> thanks


Like I said, in the first post.

Simple enough: try riding with all dampers wide open (full fast). Give it a couple miles to see how it feels. Start adding some LSC first if needed.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

CCS86 said:


> Like I said, in the first post.
> 
> Simple enough: try riding with all dampers wide open (full fast). Give it a couple miles to see how it feels. Start adding some LSC first if needed.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


And remember, forks often bed in over the first 10 hours or so. I have found that with most forks, I end up adding pressure and increasing dampening after a few rides.


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

I just installed my Mezzer Pro but I noticed the wheel fits super tight into the lowers. Much tighter than my previous Fox, RS and MRP forks. I almost have to force the wheel in a bit. Can anyone confirm this is normal for a Mezzer? Starting to wonder if the machining on my lowers was not done right.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

DirtDiggler said:


> I just installed my Mezzer Pro but I noticed the wheel fits super tight into the lowers. Much tighter than my previous Fox, RS and MRP forks. I almost have to force the wheel in a bit. Can anyone confirm this is normal for a Mezzer? Starting to wonder if the machining on my lowers was not done right.


It's normal. There is a lip that helps retain the wheel, with the axle removed.

In my testing, I found the lowest bushing drag with the wheel mating faces decked down until the paint was gone.










Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> It's normal. There is a lip that helps retain the wheel, with the axle removed.
> 
> In my testing, I found the lowest bushing drag with the wheel mating faces decked down until the paint was gone.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the image and confirmation! I almost couldn't get my wheel into the slot at first and was afraid to flex the lowers. Did you re-face the surface or was the paint worn away from riding?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

DirtDiggler said:


> Thanks for the image and confirmation! I almost couldn't get my wheel into the slot at first and was afraid to flex the lowers. Did you re-face the surface or was the paint worn away from riding?


I made a tool to make facing them very safe and easy. PM me if you are interested in one.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

cavo said:


> new owner of mezzer pro here. did setup according to the guide and i am super stoked about the for performance through chunk at speed. i cant however figure out how to get the fork work better at slow tech riding. there just seem to be too much low speed damping? even if my LSC is set to full open. is this something that can be further adjusted by IRT or dorado air chambers? what exactly do these two chambers do? what kind of adjustment to how the fork feels can i achieve, by changing pressure in either one?
> thanks


What is happening at low speeds that you don't like?


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

cavo said:


> ok, gotcha, good to know, so adjusting these two chambers will not solve my low speed compression problem i assume.


The Mezzer has excellent small bump and low speed. My buddy just sold his 38 because he felt how good mine was. I'm just giving you a starting point, you can drop a few psi off the bottom valve and fine tune the top valve to avoid bottom out, and you'll have all the plushness you've ever dreamed of.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

fsrxc said:


> What is happening at low speeds that you don't like?


I would suggest he's got a touch more compression damping than he needs. At high speeds it feels great but he'll notice it feeling too firm at low speeds.

Swap one 17mm shim for 12mm shim and the problem goes away.


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> I made a tool to make facing them very safe and easy. PM me if you are interested in one.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


 Thanks! I find it a little crazy you had make a facing tool for $1000 fork that should already be correctly faced and optimized. Do you think this may have to do with the pre-mature wear some of these fork?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

DirtDiggler said:


> Thanks! I find it a little crazy you had make a facing tool for $1000 fork that should already be correctly faced and optimized. Do you think this may have to do with the pre-mature wear some of these fork?



There's nothing crazy about it. I didn't "have" to do anything. The fork is great out of the box. I'm an engineer and constantly try to optimize things. 

All I did was carefully remove the paint with a tool I designed. This has nothing to do with wear. This isn't a wear surface.

What is crazy, is other $1000 forks from Fox and RS with bushings so tight, the friction is more than the damping.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Dougal said:


> I would suggest he's got a touch more compression damping than he needs. At high speeds it feels great but he'll notice it feeling too firm at low speeds.
> 
> Swap one 17mm shim for 12mm shim and the problem goes away.


yes, exactly what i have been experiencing. will try to do the shim swap on my next maintenance.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> I would suggest he's got a touch more compression damping than he needs. At high speeds it feels great but he'll notice it feeling too firm at low speeds.
> 
> Swap one 17mm shim for 12mm shim and the problem goes away.


I'd love to do the shim swap, but with poor close-in eyesight and arthritic hands, it might be a real challenge.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Botched up the MezzPro fender today after riding through some peanut butter mud....
Anyone happy with an alternative fender?


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

TraxFactory said:


> Botched up the MezzPro fender today after riding through some peanut butter mud....
> Anyone happy with an alternative fender?


Looks like the mudhugger zip tie version should work, says on the website.

Maybe if we spam them with requests they'll make a bolt - on adapter /version at some point 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

TraxFactory said:


> Botched up the MezzPro fender today after riding through some peanut butter mud....
> Anyone happy with an alternative fender?


How bad is it? The top hole pretty commonly breaks off, but it's easy to get it to stay in place with a fender washer under the screw. And also thanks for reminding me that I needed to order some more Sweat Busters


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

ungod said:


> How bad is it? The top hole pretty commonly breaks off, but it's easy to get it to stay in place with a fender washer under the screw. And also thanks for reminding me that I needed to order some more Sweat Busters


Ha glad to help!

Both side mounts ripped off...overall i like the fender...my fault for trying to run through mud hole...things changed quick
.


----------



## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

It’s not like a special tool
Is really needed to remove that paint. Any of several stock dremel attachments would do it just fine.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

EdSawyer said:


> It’s not like a special tool
> Is really needed to remove that paint. Any of several stock dremel attachments would do it just fine.


For removing the wheel flange paint? That's a terrible idea. You absolutely need a specialized tool to deck that flange mechanically, unless you just wanted to do a chemical peel on the paint.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I just used some aircraft remover I had laying around since I was burnishing the bushings anyways. Tbh there was no difference with my fork/hub combination. Win some lose some.


----------



## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

Any decent end cutting mill in a dremel will work fine deck that. An end cutting diamond stone would work fine too. It’s not rocket science.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

EdSawyer said:


> Any decent end cutting mill in a dremel will work fine deck that. An end cutting diamond stone would work fine too. It’s not rocket science.


I do this kind of stuff for a living and couldn't disagree more.

You want those wheel flange surfaces to be flat and parallel to within about 0.001". This maximizes stiffness of the wheel/fork assembly, minimizes wear, and prevents added friction in the fork from lower leg bending caused by lack of parallelism.

If you think you can do this handheld with a Dremel, you are kidding yourself.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

question regarding oils.
i am going to be replacing shims in my damper so for damper oil, i assume this is the correct oil, even though the packaging is a bit different than the one on hayes website, and its 1/3 of a price that Hayes sells it for. correct?
its about same viscosity (16.2 at 40 deg) as Redline 5wt "lightweight" (16 at 40 c) that i have on shelf, so i assume i can use that as well?

then instead of getting tiny bottle of 5/40 semi bath, what is everyone using? i have always used just cheapo Mobile 10/30 from walmart and never had issue. any other suggestions?

and lastly, what is the proper kit to bleed the damper. amazon gives me a lot of options with a lot of different fittings. manual says m5 x 0.8 but none of the kits list this fittings.
thanks


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cavo said:


> question regarding oils.
> i am going to be replacing shims in my damper so for damper oil, i assume this is the correct oil, even though the packaging is a bit different than the one on hayes website, and its 1/3 of a price that Hayes sells it for. correct?
> its about same viscosity (16.2 at 40 deg) as Redline 5wt "lightweight" (16 at 40 c) that i have on shelf, so i assume i can use that as well?
> 
> ...


I've found corrosion of shims caused by redline (and torco) oils. IMO stick to mineral blends. 

There is a massive variation in how well different motor oils lubricate.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

cavo said:


> question regarding oils.
> i am going to be replacing shims in my damper so for damper oil, i assume this is the correct oil, even though the packaging is a bit different than the one on hayes website, and its 1/3 of a price that Hayes sells it for. correct?
> its about same viscosity (16.2 at 40 deg) as Redline 5wt "lightweight" (16 at 40 c) that i have on shelf, so i assume i can use that as well?
> 
> ...


I used Mobil 1 for years as bath oil and it worked fine. I use WPL 20 weight now and it works a bit better. Even with the large number of bikes I service (friends), I still get a year+ out of a $24 bottle.


----------



## Carmel (Apr 21, 2014)

I finally got around to playing with the Mezzer Shimstacks. For compression I swapped in a 12 instead of the second 17.5mm shim:







Rebound is the newest version (12-9-12), so not really room to speed things up here:







I will fill the damper with Motorex Racing Fork oil 2.5 and hope that speeds things up a little.
(I also have Silkolene RSF 2.5, which I run in my other forks.)
Any other suggestions?


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Carmel said:


> I finally got around to playing with the Mezzer Shimstacks. For compression I swapped in a 12 instead of the second 17.5mm shim:
> View attachment 1954645
> 
> Rebound is the newest version (12-9-12), so not really room to speed things up here:
> ...


Maxima 85-150 in the damper and the lower bath oil I use in the lowers is a mix of 1 part Fox Gold 20w and 2 parts Mobil 1 0w-30 engine oil. As a general rule Silkolene oils are on the thick side when you look at the cST rating especially when it comes to their 5w oils in saying that the cST of the 2.5w oil you have is lower than the 85-150 Maxima I’m using. The Motorex has a rating that’s pretty close to the Maxima so out of the 3 oils that are mentioned here the Silkolene is marginally thinner. 
On a different note I have done the 12mm in place of the 17.5mm shim mod and I recently just bumped my air pressures up to 52 and 84. I’ve been running the HSC open and the LSC 1 click from open and I’m 73kg (160lb) ready to ride and I thought the fork felt unreal. Yesterday I thought I’d set the LSC to 1 click from closed and much to my surprise the fork actually felt more plush. This wasn’t what I expected. I actually expected the exact opposite. I tend to fiddle with things then when it feels better I leave it for a while but then curiosity gets the better of me. I should have experimented more earlier I suppose but this was a surprising and good result that I really didn’t expect.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Carmel said:


> I finally got around to playing with the Mezzer Shimstacks. For compression I swapped in a 12 instead of the second 17.5mm shim:
> View attachment 1954645
> 
> Rebound is the newest version (12-9-12), so not really room to speed things up here:
> ...


would you mind sharing what kind of kit you used to bleed the damper? i cant wrap my head around all the different fittings that come with bleed kit sets.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

cavo said:


> would you mind sharing what kind of kit you used to bleed the damper? i cant wrap my head around all the different fittings that come with bleed kit sets.


I used a Rock Shox reverb bleed kit to do mine. The fittings are the same.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Before I dig into a pro damper for a 200hr service for the first time, does anyone know of a step by step doc or vid that might help? The teardown/valving guide looks to be a good start but perhaps there's something more comprehensive I haven't come across? Is it as straight forward as the rest of the fork and a comprehensive guide is unnecessary?

On that note, obviously 200hrs is recommended for a full damper rebuild... but are any of you just refreshing the damper oil and pushing that interval without issue?


----------



## Carmel (Apr 21, 2014)

OzIbis said:


> I used a Rock Shox reverb bleed kit to do mine. The fittings are the same.


Same here, worked pretty good


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Dougal said:


> I've found corrosion of shims caused by redline (and torco) oils. IMO stick to mineral blends.


Do you think it could be avoided with shorter service intervals or comes down to being a full synthetic? I have a ton of Redline fluid I would like to use up


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

Hey folks, what causes clunky top out on this fork? Just had a quick service done and it’s topping out harshly. It was doing this before the service as well, but only for the last couple rides. Also, it seems like my rebound got faster after service, which is nice because I was maxed out on the clicker before, now I’m about 5 clicks in from wide open.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

afraid said:


> Hey folks, what causes clunky top out on this fork? Just had a quick service done and it’s topping out harshly. It was doing this before the service as well, but only for the last couple rides. Also, it seems like my rebound got faster after service, which is nice because I was maxed out on the clicker before, now I’m about 5 clicks in from wide open.


Either screw your shock pump in until it bottoms, or switch to a new pump if you already are. With the pump fully connected, you should be able to easily push the fork to bottom out.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Enurjetik (Apr 24, 2007)

I'm two rides into my new Mezzer Pro. I'm enjoying the fork so far, but I haven't hit the levels of plushness that I'm hoping for. My hands and wrists are noticing the fork more than they did with the 2021 Yari that was previously on this bike (not to mention the Bomber Z1 Coil that is on my long-travel trail bike). I'm aware that the lack of plushness could simply be that the fork needs some time to break in, but I would love to start optimizing performance now. 

Can anyone explain to me the relationship between the IRT and main chambers as it translates to ride feel? If I want to soften up the feel at the top but maintain mid-stroke support, would I want to reduce main and keep IRT as it is (or vice versa)? Would the better approach be to drop the pressures (keeping the ratio between those chambers as recommended by Manitou) and simply add LSC? 

Relevant details:
I like a fork that is super supple at the top but doesn't dive during steep braking while staying high in its travel on the flats and climbs
My riding weight is ~220 lbs
Fork travel: 150mm
Current IRT pressure: 107
Current main pressure: 75
Current sag: ~25 percent


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

What are your LSC / HSC settings? I think your pressures are too high. I would try 60 in the main and 75 in the IRT. And set LSC to the midpoint / closer to closed. See how that feels and start from there.









Mezzer User Setups


Setup Guide & Pressure Calc Manitou Setup Guide,Travel,140mm 140mm,150mm,160mm,170mm,180mm lbs,kg,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT 300,136,110,152,105,141,101,137,92,132,88,120,150mm 260,118,96,134,91,125,87,121,80,116,76,106,160mm 220,100,82,116,77,109,73,105,68,100,64,92,170mm 200,91




docs.google.com




If you haven't seen it yet you can play around with the calc here.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Enurjetik said:


> I'm two rides into my new Mezzer Pro. I'm enjoying the fork so far, but I haven't hit the levels of plushness that I'm hoping for. My hands and wrists are noticing the fork more than they did with the 2021 Yari that was previously on this bike (not to mention the Bomber Z1 Coil that is on my long-travel trail bike). I'm aware that the lack of plushness could simply be that the fork needs some time to break in, but I would love to start optimizing performance now.
> 
> Can anyone explain to me the relationship between the IRT and main chambers as it translates to ride feel? If I want to soften up the feel at the top but maintain mid-stroke support, would I want to reduce main and keep IRT as it is (or vice versa)? Would the better approach be to drop the pressures (keeping the ratio between those chambers as recommended by Manitou) and simply add LSC?
> 
> ...


Not sure how accurate your pump is, but your pressures seem very high. I am 200 pounds and running 50/80 and only will use full travel if I do a 3+ foot drop to flat. I would suggest starting at about 60/90, high speed open, low speed 2-4 clicks in, and rebound 6-7 out from closed to start with. The main chamber sets the feel of the initial travel, the IRT the ramp up.


----------



## Enurjetik (Apr 24, 2007)

Thanks, @cassieno and @Cary! It sounds like Manitou's recommended pressures run high. I'll drop the pressure and bump up the LSC. I can't remember where I started with LSC, but by the end of my last ride I think I had turned it to fully open to try to get some more plushness out of the fork.


----------



## Enurjetik (Apr 24, 2007)

Deleting redundant post.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Anyone know of a reason (aside from a worn seal/scored shaft) that would cause the air spring to ingest bath oil? Air shaft is clean, it's very unlikely that bath was overfilled by more then a couple ml if at all, and it held pos pressure/equalized as far as I could tell.

Casting pressure build up? Neg wasn't actually equalizing? Maybe both those combined with a very slight splash overfill? WTF?

Also, has anyone sourced a generic lower shaft (sealhead?) quad ring?

ReReEdit: Can anyone confirm this is a 013 quad ring?


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

Ok I attached the pump and compressed fork all the way…no difference in clunky top out. Rebound is also still faster than before at same setting, manageable though simply by dialing it down. Why is this fork topping out harshly? While riding it’s only really noticeable when I pop into a manual, otherwise it’s tracking well.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

afraid said:


> Ok I attached the pump and compressed fork all the way…no difference in clunky top out. Rebound is also still faster than before at same setting, manageable though simply by dialing it down. Why is this fork topping out harshly? While riding it’s only really noticeable when I pop into a manual, otherwise it’s tracking well.


i actually have similar/same issue. never gave it a thought until i saw your post. i dont notice it while riding at all, only while stationary and not siting in the bike, when i pull on the bars abruptly, slight clunk can be felt


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

afraid said:


> Ok I attached the pump and compressed fork all the way…no difference in clunky top out. Rebound is also still faster than before at same setting, manageable though simply by dialing it down. Why is this fork topping out harshly? While riding it’s only really noticeable when I pop into a manual, otherwise it’s tracking well.


Did you change travel and put the top out bumper in the wrong spot?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> Did you change travel and put the top out bumper in the wrong spot?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


No. I may send the fork to a real suspension service center for a full damper bleed, it’s at about 175 hours.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

afraid said:


> No. I may send the fork to a real suspension service center for a full damper bleed, it’s at about 175 hours.


A damper bleed won't fix a top out clunk.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> A damper bleed won't fix a top out clunk.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


I figured as much, hopefully they’ll run through the whole fork and fix the problem though.


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

Who are the Manitou service Wizards in the US?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

afraid said:


> Who are the Manitou service Wizards in the US?


These guys have done several Manitou shock rebuilds for me and as far as I know are as close to a manitiou specialist in the USA. 



Shockspital - Local and mail-in MTB suspension service



Any good suspension service company should be able to service the fork. They are straightforward an easy to work on. The issue is that many don't want to do it because they haven't and don't want to have to work on anything that takes time to learn a new process.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Did you change travel and put the top out bumper in the wrong spot?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Where is the top out bumper? I changed travel recently (reduced my 160mm to 150mm) and don't remember seeing anything.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)




----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

That makes so much sense now that you pointed it out. Like major duh moment.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> View attachment 1955412


ok, i will have to check mine, i reduced from 180mm to 160mm. i thought i did it correctly but maybe not. grey rings above top out bumper are the travel reducers right?
btw, do you have full image showing both legs all the way up and down?
thanks


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

cavo said:


> ok, i will have to check mine, i reduced from 180mm to 160mm. i thought i did it correctly but maybe not. grey rings above top out bumper are the travel reducers right?
> btw, do you have full image showing both legs all the way up and down?
> thanks




Added to the first post.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

cavo said:


> ok, i will have to check mine, i reduced from 180mm to 160mm. i thought i did it correctly but maybe not. grey rings above top out bumper are the travel reducers right?
> btw, do you have full image showing both legs all the way up and down?
> thanks


There is a small metal washer that is supposed to go underneath the travel reducers (grey rings). I wonder if you left that in the original position instead of pulling it below? That may be causing the clunk.

I watched a video that made it look like on the 180mm it sort of hides ->




 timestamp 3:37


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Quick question. Does the travel adjustment with the pump trick work on the Mezzer? My wife's is setvat 180. Would like a quick way to see what she prefers before opening it up.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Yes it does.


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

Hey to get rid of this harsh top out what if I compress the fork 3mm with the pump attached and then remove the pump while it’s compressed? 
Also, I think the recent servicing gave me faster rebound simply because they lubed things up better than the last time they serviced it.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

You should figure out what is actually wrong with it. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

cassieno said:


> Yes it does.


Awesome, thanks!


----------



## leejohnh22 (Mar 23, 2020)

@Dougal Would you mind suggesting a starting point for air pressures at my feather weight of 130 lb / 59kg? 

I have a 2020 Mezzer on the way, set to 150mm. Intermediate level rider, primarily riding rooty trails at moderate speeds 15-20mph with small drops and jumps.

CCS86 suggests 39.5 main, 66.5 art while the mezzer setup guide suggests ~46 main, ~74 irt.

I do plan on removing a 13 x 6 x 0.1 from the rebound stack, as well as a single 17.5 from the compression stack after a few rides.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Regarding the fork suck down problem. I seem to be losing 10-12 mm with just the weight of the bike on the fork (have it set to 160mm). I know people mentioned that one needs to release the pressure from the main first (Making sure the pump is screwed all the way in), pump up the IRT to the desired pressure (90 psi), then pump up main (making sure the pump is screwed all the way in). 

One is able to check if both positive and negative (means the pump is fully engaged) is open because one can cycle the fork (bottom it out) with the pump attached on the main.

I then pump up the main to desired pressure (in my case, I want 58 psi) - lift the front of the bike up, push down the fork crown so it's fully extended (wheel off the ground) then at full extension, remove the pump. 

Even when I do it this way, as soon as the front of the bike (no rider) hits the ground, I lose 10-12mm.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I tried filling the fork with oil again today through the ports on the backside. This time i stuck a zip-tie in the wipers. As I pushed oil through it just bubbled up through the zip tie in the wipers. 

Looking at a spare set of lowers that I have, it makes sense why that would happen. The ports come in right behind the foam wipers. Below the port is the upper bushing, and above it is the wiper. 

Is this some kind of cruel joke, or has anyone actually managed to get 7cc of oil into their fork using the ports on the back of the lowers?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

ungod said:


> I tried filling the fork with oil again today through the ports on the backside. This time i stuck a zip-tie in the wipers. As I pushed oil through it just bubbled up through the zip tie in the wipers.
> 
> Is this some kind of cruel joke, or has anyone actually managed to get 7cc of oil into their fork using the ports on the back of the lowers?


I have had some success by cycling the fork with syringe attached, pulling a vacuum then replacing air with oil. 

In retrospect, the need to force feed it (despite the recommended interval) _might_ be a sign of having a sufficient oil volume as my air spring actually started ingesting the bath. Maybe someone with better working knowledge can confirm this...


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Update: I was able to get the oil in. I basically just sat there and applied pressure to the syringe for 5 minutes and it took ~1cc per minute. I tried cycling the fork but it didn't seem to help in my case. I don't think this is a case of positive air pressure in the fork or anything. It's strictly that you have to force oil down through two bushings, and they're a good fit. Plus you have to force oil around the foam rings. It's not very well thought-out IMO.

You should also be _really_ sure that you trust your syringe, since you're working over your brake pads and a little pressure might blow your hose off


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Heating up the oil first would probably help

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

I d


ungod said:


> I tried filling the fork with oil again today through the ports on the backside. This time i stuck a zip-tie in the wipers. As I pushed oil through it just bubbled up through the zip tie in the wipers.
> 
> Looking at a spare set of lowers that I have, it makes sense why that would happen. The ports come in right behind the foam wipers. Below the port is the upper bushing, and above it is the wiper.
> 
> Is this some kind of cruel joke, or has anyone actually managed to get 7cc of oil into their fork using the ports on the back of the lowers?


I don’t bother pissing around with it. A lower service is so quick and easy to do that I just do it sooner and put the full 21cc of oil in it. The only time I’ve taken the bleed port bolts was out of curiosity to see if there was any built up air in there.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

redundant post


----------



## Ljub (Nov 9, 2021)

Hi,
I am new here, but I do enjoy Mezzer for past 4 months and following this thread. I take care of my fork and clean/lube its stanchions and seals after every ride with RSP fork lube.
I also did lower leg service 3 times already and using Superglis 100k oil.

However, I noticed that black layer is wearing off my stanchions. Is this normal? I guess not, especially after 4 months of use. I had Lyrik before Mezzer for much longer and it did not have any marks on stanchions.

This is how it looks in direct sunlight, worst case scenario, most of the time its barely visible.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ljub said:


> Hi,
> I am new here, but I do enjoy Mezzer for past 4 months and following this thread. I take care of my fork and clean/lube its stanchions and seals after every ride with RSP fork lube.
> I also did lower leg service 3 times already and using Superglis 100k oil.
> 
> ...


Quit using that RSP, you are making lapping compound when it mixes with the dirt and dust. Wipe the stanchions clean after each ride with a damp rag, or use some bike wash to clean them, but do not apply any lube or grease, you are just making a magnet for the dirt to stick to them and wear out the coating like is occurring.


----------



## Ljub (Nov 9, 2021)

Cary said:


> Quit using that RSP, you are making lapping compound when it mixes with the dirt and dust. Wipe the stanchions clean after each ride with a damp rag, or use some bike wash to clean them, but do not apply any lube or grease, you are just making a magnet for the dirt to stick to them and wear out the coating like is occurring.


I did not leave the lube in there, I always wiped it clean before use. just put a bit of this lube so the dirt mixed with it and it can be cleaned more easily. Also it's suppose to protect the wipers from drying/harding, isn't it?


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Ljub said:


> I did not leave the lube in there, I always wiped it clean before use. just put a bit of this lube so the dirt mixed with it and it can be cleaned more easily. Also it's suppose to protect the wipers from drying/harding, isn't it?


I hate to be captain obvious but I think you're the only one having this issue and you've done a great job of identifying why. You can rationalize however you want.


----------



## Ljub (Nov 9, 2021)

Is cleaning of stanchions after every ride wrong then?
I did exactly the same on 2 Lyriks and still do on my wife's Suntour and none of them had/has this issue....Absolutely no wear on their (also black) legs...
Same lube btw.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

If he wiped it off, he wiped it off.

I also "float" dirt out of the dust seal with a bit of bath oil between rides. Nothing wrong with that.

Leaving excess oil on the stanchion is an issue in dry/dusty conditions. You have no idea if he is doing that.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ljub (Nov 9, 2021)

Nope, I know oil mixes with dust and dirt and create sanding paste. Thats why I clean legs after every ride and wipe it clean and DRY. 
If there is no obvious reason why this could happen, I will send the fork for warranty inspection.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

The black oxide coating on the Manitou stanchions isn't proprietary or anything, it's what all the manufacturers use (RS, Fox except Kashima, XFusion, etc.). I can't really argue what's causing the wear but it's not a Manitou issue unless your bushings are worn out or there's no oil in your lowers, or something.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

If you treat all your forks the same - regardless of what you do - and this is the only fork with stanchion wear it seems like a warranty issue to me.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

What shock pumps is everyone using? The main spring is pretty low pressure , I would think accuracy is important to get it consistent every time.
All the shock pumps I see are in the 350psi range and typical specs are 1% of range. That's a 4 psi error which is pretty significant if your main pressure is 50 psi.

The enduro-mtb review said "The location of the equalisation ports mean you also need to make sure the fork is not weighted when pumping it up, to the point of physically extending the fork.". Do you guys adjust pressure with the bike unweighted on the stand ?


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

jacksonlui said:


> What shock pumps is everyone using? The main spring is pretty low pressure , I would think accuracy is important to get it consistent every time.
> All the shock pumps I see are in the 350psi range and typical specs are 1% of range. That's a 4 psi error which is pretty significant if your main pressure is 50 psi.
> 
> The enduro-mtb review said "The location of the equalisation ports mean you also need to make sure the fork is not weighted when pumping it up, to the point of physically extending the fork.". Do you guys adjust pressure with the bike unweighted on the stand ?


I use a Blackburn digital pump on the wife's Mezzer and my Era. Both forks seem to be sensitive to slight changes.


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

jacksonlui said:


> What shock pumps is everyone using? The main spring is pretty low pressure , I would think accuracy is important to get it consistent every time.
> All the shock pumps I see are in the 350psi range and typical specs are 1% of range. That's a 4 psi error which is pretty significant if your main pressure is 50 psi.
> 
> The enduro-mtb review said "The location of the equalisation ports mean you also need to make sure the fork is not weighted when pumping it up, to the point of physically extending the fork.". Do you guys adjust pressure with the bike unweighted on the stand ?


Rockshockx digital pump must be the most frequent in use I guess. Works great 0,5 psi adjustment ^^

I grab the forks by the stanchions and push on the lowers with a thumb while unscrewing the pump with my left hand. Just make sure it's not weighted and you're good 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I like my Rockshox digital pump too.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Mine is a generic, similar to the "venzo" one on Amazon. Same company that makes the Fox pumps. 

Dougal did a test for different shock pumps and found they have a decent amount of variance. The only important thing is that your pump is consistent, though. If 46.5psi on your pump is really 50 psi, it doesn't matter as long as it's consistently 50psi, because you're setting for feel and not for a number. 

I usually turn my bike upside down or lay it on its side to check the lower valve. Remember to fill the top valve (IRT) first, if you have it.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I ordered the tool kit to change travel. But it's now stuck in the mail. Other than a hollow cassette tool is there any other specifics to the tool?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Cerberus75 said:


> I ordered the tool kit to change travel. But it's now stuck in the mail. Other than a hollow cassette tool is there any other specifics to the tool?


Thin wall 8 mm, that is the important one.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Cary said:


> Thin wall 8 mm, that is the important one.


You don't need a thin wall 8mm on the Mezzer.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

CCS86 said:


> You don't need a thin wall 8mm on the Mezzer.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Shows you how many times I have pulled mine apart. Damn memory.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Thanks guys.


----------



## Gantz75 (Jun 21, 2020)

Ljub said:


> Is cleaning of stanchions after every ride wrong then?
> I did exactly the same on 2 Lyriks and still do on my wife's Suntour and none of them had/has this issue....Absolutely no wear on their (also black) legs...
> Same lube btw.


I had simmilar issue on my Mattoc. 
Problem I found was that my bath oil in both legs had turned into a messy grinding paste. 
I do not know how it could get that bad (I had changed the bath oil rather frequently) . Only thing I can think of is that I had a scratch on one of the stanchion that might have pulled down some dirt. How it managed to pull it in to the other leg is a mystery... Have a much larger scratch on my old Pike but there the oil has been fine(not ridden as much). On both I have sanded the scratches with 2000grit paper.
What is simmilar to your issue is that I also used fork boost. Do not know if this might be the issue and that you cant get it off as you should. I have however used it in the Pike as well without issues...
Now I only use silicon spray for the cleaning, do not want to risk it on the Mezzer...

What is the thoughts here on running a fork where you have anodizing wear? Just run it till it breaks? 

My thought was to have the Mattoc as a spare when servicing the Mezzer BUT maybe it could do a better job replacing the RS sector on my doughters bike. (cannot use the sector on my bike due to stearer lenght) 

Thanks! 

/Gantz


Skickat från min J9210 via Tapatalk


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Silicon and other stantion lubes will thicken the bath oil if it gets in the fork. If you want too elevate the seal stiction put a zip tie in the seal and drip the same oil in the bath. Bounce and wipe the station of any dust that comes up multiple times. Otherwise you are making your seals sandpaper.


----------



## Ljub (Nov 9, 2021)

When I noticed the wear, I did lower leg service right away and the oil was quite clean, a bit darker but definitely no grinding paste.

I've used silicone spray before, but I like the oil consistency better, because it wont contaminate brake discs.

I dont think this has something to do with the product I used for cleaning.
I will send it for warranty inspection. The eshop where I bought it has excelent service, free pick-up at my home so why not. But because its not possible to fix, if they agree that it is truly manufacturing defect, they will refund me because the model I have is sold out with unknown availability.

And here is the biggest problem, I dont want any other single crown fork . I would buy Dorado, but its also not available. Formula Nero has similar airspring, it may be worth trying... But Mezzer is truly a gem among single-crown forks. I love it


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Ljub said:


> When I noticed the wear, I did lower leg service right away and the oil was quite clean, a bit darker but definitely no grinding paste.
> 
> I've used silicone spray before, but I like the oil consistency better, because it wont contaminate brake discs.
> 
> ...


I'd hit up Hayes and see about another CSU


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Has anyone found a way or trick to improve the small bump?

Would it work if your fork is set to 180mm and lower the main pressure enough so that it acts as a 160mm but still have good IRT pressure for mid stroke support? Not sure if anyone has tried this yet.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

When setup correctly this fork has great small bump compliance.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ljub (Nov 9, 2021)

I did something similar.
Had fork set for 180mm internally, but when filling the air in the main chamber, I let the fork sit 1cm into the travel, so I increased the size of the negative chamber. Fork has now about 170mm travel + has great small bump sensitivity.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Thats good to hear. Did you have to do anything special to the other chambers to compensate? Does it make climbing worse?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Mine has extremely low breakaway force now after burnishing the bushings, 214 quad seal for air piston and 68k Supergliss, night and day difference from new at least to me, best factory fork I've run, only ones better than it are my Avalanche tuned forks.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> Mine has extremely low breakaway force now after burnishing the bushings, 214 quad seal for air piston and 68k Supergliss, night and day difference from new at least to me, best factory fork I've run, only ones better than it are my Avalanche tuned forks.


How does the 214 quad seal you’re using differ from the stock air piston o-ring?


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> How does the 214 quad seal you’re using differ from the stock air piston o-ring?


It's one size smaller so less drag in theory, at least for my pressures it's been working without any issues. I imagine it might have to be serviced a little more often but I already service my forks pretty often, like to keep them running smooth. Burnishing the bushings made the biggest difference though


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

Hi everybody, I have a 2019 Mezzer Pro which I feel is noticeably harsh over small bumps. I've messed with everything, air pressures and LSC and HSC settings with no luck, the rebound side of things is great though.

I ride at about 85kg. Reading up on it I've seen about a 12mm shim mod that can be done. I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to fork tuning and servicing, so my question is... is there a "how to" guide on how to do the 12mm shim modification, and also where could I get the 12mm shim from?

Thanks in advance

Julian


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

bloodbox said:


> Hi everybody, I have a 2019 Mezzer Pro which I feel is noticeably harsh over small bumps. I've messed with everything, air pressures and LSC and HSC settings with no luck, the rebound side of things is great though.
> 
> I ride at about 85kg. Reading up on it I've seen about a 12mm shim mod that can be done. I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to fork tuning and servicing, so my question is... is there a "how to" guide on how to do the 12mm shim modification, and also where could I get the 12mm shim from?
> 
> ...


Check the first post of this thread


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

ungod said:


> Check the first post of this thread


Thank you!


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Finally found one in stock. It was the silver limited edition color. Prefer black but I've heard the silver looks nice too.
I guess I have a lot of reading to do.
Too bad I don't think I can read this entire thread in linear mode anymore.
It's great we have so many smart people here who has figured a lot of this stuff out.
Experimentation is part of the fun!


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

You don't need to. Just go off the first page and the CCS86 set-up guide. That should give you a roughly good starting point. If in doubt a little less pressure and more LSC.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I would want to do a lowers service right away. Is there a guide on fluid recommendation which can be bought a an LBS? I have fluid for my fox 36 already.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

jacksonlui said:


> I would want to do a lowers service right away. Is there a guide on fluid recommendation which can be bought a an LBS? I have fluid for my fox 36 already.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


I've read here that you can use Fox gold.

While you're pulling the lowers, you might want to port the plastic damper side stanchion cap (unsure of technical term) so it doesn't trap bath oil. Search the forums for instructions.

EDIT: here's one link Manitou Mezzer


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I mean realistically you can use a lot of different oils including motor oil. The stock oil that Manitou specs, motorex 4t, is about as good as it gets. 

I wouldn't use the Fox teflon-infused oil they were specing for the grip 2 dampers though, it was only used for damper compatibility.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I dont want to drill holes or any mods yet unless its needed. Just want to check to make sure of proper fluid volume, grease, etc.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Anyone using any oil other than motorex? That's not something I can buy from a local bike store or car shop

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

jacksonlui said:


> Anyone using any oil other than motorex? That's not something I can buy from a local bike store or car shop
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


First post in this thread hints at getting the motorex 4t stuff from a dirt bike shop - ones in Canada carry it - pretty sure one in the us does as well.

As someone else said you can use fox gold as the bath oil as well 

Many of us have had great success with supergliss - but if you are having trouble sourcing the 4t you really will struggle with supergliss. I acquired my supergliss supply from Dougal.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

jacksonlui said:


> I dont want to drill holes or any mods yet unless its needed. Just want to check to make sure of proper fluid volume, grease, etc


Well, there’s a good chance the majority of the bath oil on damper side will end up trapped above that cap, so in my experience it’s needed... but hey, feel free to disregard good advise.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I use WPL 20 but would strongly recommend the mod on the damper side because oil does tend to get stuck up there unless you are using something lightweight and/or what Manitou specifies.

Think of it like this - you can stick to exactly what Manitou specifies (no harm there of course) at the cost of that oil potentially being more difficult to procure maybe or the mod allows you to use different oils which might be easier to get your hands on

Neither is right or wrong just trade-offs and I did have an issue with WPL without the mod getting trapped up in the damper and by the time I noticed it (fork making horrible noise) I had rubbing on the stanchion to the point where I went ahead and replaced my CSU because it was significant enough.

I have another Mezzer on the way and am going to do that mod right off the bat as it is easy to do and good insurance.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I've purchased some Motorex 5W40 and Maxima 5W as specified by Manitou. I don't ride in really cold weather in southern california but I'll look into that mod. I'm still on page 106 in the other thread 
I'll probably end doing the mod, just want to find some good instructions.

Has anyone Macgyver'd a shock pump with an accurate 100psi gauge like this one on amazon "Longacre 52-53097 0-100 PSI Digital Tire Pressure Gauge"?
It has an accuracy of 0.8 psi. Would be great if they had something that will work for tires too. A one pump quiver.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

My fork.... newish from factory early this summer, ridden in average temp of over 80F had nearly all the bath oil trapped above that cap.


----------



## cookie70 (Oct 23, 2019)

EatsDirt said:


> I've read here that you can use Fox gold.
> 
> While you're pulling the lowers, you might want to port the plastic damper side stanchion cap (unsure of technical term) so it doesn't trap bath oil. Search the forums for instructions.
> 
> EDIT: here's one link Manitou Mezzer


I did a lower leg service yesterday but couldnt figure out how to remove that plastic cap thing. Does the damper need completely removing to be able to unscrew it?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

cookie70 said:


> I did a lower leg service yesterday but couldnt figure out how to remove that plastic cap thing. Does the damper need completely removing to be able to unscrew it?


Unfortunately yes, but it's fairly easy. Perhaps there's a deep thinwall cassette tool that allows removal without pulling the damper but I kinda doubt it...

I just pulled the lowers on a new low hours (~30) fork and sure enough this one didn't have bath oil trapped above cap. Same riding conditions and the cap design hadn't changed. Strange.

Ported it anyway...


----------



## cookie70 (Oct 23, 2019)

EatsDirt said:


> Unfortunately yes, but it's fairly easy. Perhaps there's a deep thinwall cassette tool that allows removal without pulling the damper but I kinda doubt it...
> 
> I just pulled the lowers on a new low hours (~30) fork and sure enough this one didn't have bath oil trapped above cap. Same riding conditions and the cap design hadn't changed. Strange.
> 
> Ported it anyway...


OK thanks, might look at it next service. Plenty of fluid came out of the damper side when I dropped the lower leg so cant see that much, if any oil is getting trapped up there.

cheers


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I dropped my lowers after about 30 hours of riding also. Plenty of oil on that side. I replaced it with the RS 5wt I had on hand. So will see what it looks like next time around.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

My first fork/service was basically dry in the right side lower… but 15ml or more drained out as I cycled the damper.

There’s no way I’d want to risk having that happen again. Seems like a great way to kill a fork in short order…


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I've finally received my Mezzer Pro today (mfg date: 2021/07/26)
Unfortunately I ordered an LE but got a black one. Not sure if it's even worth sending back. I'm not completely set on the silver, I haven't seen it in person.
The advantage of the black is that, replacement CSU's will be in black and will match better if I had to get a replacement.
Eager to set it up tonight. Work always gets in the way!!

uncut weight with axle = 2104g

also noticed the LSC (red) has only 8 total clicks. I thought it was suppose to be 10.
the IRT chamber is tiny. Every stroke adds 3.5lbs. Not so easy to get exact. 

160mm , ungeared weight of 187lbs
I'm going to start with (from closed):
85 / 55 psi (1.55 ratio) ->21% sag
LSC=4/8
HSC=4/4
REB=10/10


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

EatsDirt said:


> I've read here that you can use Fox gold.
> 
> While you're pulling the lowers, you might want to port the plastic damper side stanchion cap (unsure of technical term) so it doesn't trap bath oil. Search the forums for instructions.
> 
> EDIT: here's one link Manitou Mezzer


Does anyone know if the Mattoc Comp has that plastic thing? I changed the oil on mine and nothing came out of the damper side.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

so I went on my honeymoon ride today on something not too difficult to shake it down.
as with most honeymoon rides, it felt great! Coming from a 2019 fox 36, this is more supportive and has better small bump. It's about the same as an ACS but without the weight.
Nothing is free. I do feel you have to keep an eye out on the air chambers.
I'm about 187 without gear and the PRO came 160mm and what I did was a basic setup to get 20% sag and then adjust IRT pressures to get a ratio of 1.5.
This seems to work and is close to the spreadsheet. I'll open it up someday to check lube and oil but it rides good, no need to mess with it, for now.
my numbers (85/55 and dampers are fully open). I had to speed the rebound on my Push shock to match the fork, initially I was loosing grip in the rear.

It feels weird that the dampers are wide open. I feel like I don't have usable damper settings. Is there a way to adjust the dampers internally so that I can have them set in the middle?
I'm use to setting LSC to minimize bob and increase support. I have no bob and good support with it open, I wonder if I can go more than open.
I'm use to setting HSC to get full travel, I'm only using 71% travel. I don't want to decrease pressure and lose support, I'd rather do that by opening HSC but I'm already wide open.

I've also noticed that my main might be leaking a little. I pumped to 55 and reattached and see 53. I did that a few times. After a 1hr ride, I measured 51. 2 psi is missing. I'll have to keep an eye on this.
I did the same to the IRT and I didn't lose any pressure which is good, I'd rather lose a little in the main.

All in all a good first tide.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

jacksonlui said:


> so I went on my honeymoon ride today on something not too difficult to shake it down.
> as with most honeymoon rides, it felt great! Coming from a 2019 fox 36, this is more supportive and has better small bump. It's about the same as an ACS but without the weight.
> Nothing is free. I do feel you have to keep an eye out on the air chambers.
> I'm about 187 without gear and the PRO came 160mm and what I did was a basic setup to get 20% sag and then adjust IRT pressures to get a ratio of 1.5.
> ...


What type of terain do you ride? I prefer a damped for over higher pressure. My wife is the opposite. She rides it open and I can jump on her bike and put LSC in the middle with out changing air pressure. She's 35lbs lighter than me. Drop the pressure if you want to increase damping. If riding chunky vs high speed jumps less of a ratio difference in the IRT.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Mostly chunky terrain and small jumps. I don't want the fork to dive and cause an OTB for those big rollers and larger drops where I go nose heavy by mistake.
Small jumps is like 3-5 feet? I know everyone on her jumps 100 ft in the air but I don't. I don't heal fast enough , that just goes away with age.

But less smaller ratio for chunk is something good to keep in mind but I do want to make it easier to jump as well. I guess I need a balanced ride and learn how to deal with both instead of adjusting it to suit the terrain.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Has anyone tried to replace this crappy guage with a low pressure digital guage ? Seems perfect since it works for tires, forks, and shocks. You can bring this on the trail and just use your hand pump.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jacksonlui said:


> I've finally received my Mezzer Pro today (mfg date: 2021/07/26)
> Unfortunately I ordered an LE but got a black one. Not sure if it's even worth sending back. I'm not completely set on the silver, I haven't seen it in person.
> The advantage of the black is that, replacement CSU's will be in black and will match better if I had to get a replacement.
> Eager to set it up tonight. Work always gets in the way!!
> ...


I think you should drop 10psi from both and increase LSC.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Dougal said:


> I think you should drop 10psi from both and increase LSC.


thanks. I will try that and see how it feels . With the current settings, I'm using 80% travel which isn't bad.
Love the mid stroke support.

Dropping 10 psi (85/55 to 75/45), The ratop will be going from 1.55 to 1.67.


----------



## jakalwil (Nov 24, 2020)

jacksonlui said:


> thanks. I will try that and see how it feels . With the current settings, I'm using 80% travel which isn't bad.
> Love the mid stroke support.
> 
> Dropping 10 psi (85/55 to 75/45), The ratop will be going from 1.55 to 1.67.


I actually like keeping my Mezzer tuned to hit ~80% of travel regularly. Like you said, gives you some extra mid support w/ reserves to bail you out of nose-heavy landings. Actually the first time I hard bottomed my Mezzer was an awkward nose bomb over a ~10ft log gap, the fork rode it out like a champ in a nose wheelie and barely even jarred my wrists. 

If you haven’t yet, try airing down both chambers and fully compress the fork. You’ll plainly feel where the hydraulic bottom out kicks in. I pretend that point is “full travel” so I have the last bit of stroke as an emergency airbag.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I was worried about the ratio at first with this fork too. Dougal encouraged me to forget about the ratio and I'm glad I did. 

For setup purposes I'd recommend leaving the IRT alone for now. Just set the main chamber to get the right sag and trail feel.

Once you have that, set the IRT so you don't bottom. 

I'm at 170 and I run 50/65.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

ungod said:


> I was worried about the ratio at first with this fork too. Dougal encouraged me to forget about the ratio and I'm glad I did.
> 
> For setup purposes I'd recommend leaving the IRT alone for now. Just set the main chamber to get the right sag and trail feel.
> 
> ...


Yep, definitely listen to Dougal’s advice. I am glad I did. Am 150 out of the shower running the Mezzer at 160 on my Druid. Current preferred settings: 35/55; LSC fully closed and HSC 3 clicks from closed. Love it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

jakalwil said:


> I actually like keeping my Mezzer tuned to hit ~80% of travel regularly. Like you said, gives you some extra mid support w/ reserves to bail you out of nose-heavy landings. Actually the first time I hard bottomed my Mezzer was an awkward nose bomb over a ~10ft log gap, the fork rode it out like a champ in a nose wheelie and barely even jarred my wrists.
> 
> If you haven’t yet, try airing down both chambers and fully compress the fork. You’ll plainly feel where the hydraulic bottom out kicks in. I pretend that point is “full travel” so I have the last bit of stroke as an emergency airbag.


I run mine the same way. This an especially good setup if running "more travel than you need". I'm at full 180mm, weight 163lb, and running psi recommend for 180lb rider. Works great and still bottom when called for.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

To the people that had issues with steerers not being pressed in all the way, what was the fix from Manitou? I keep having to tighten the preload on my headset after one or two rides and it's starting to get annoying. Other than that the fork has been awesome, I actually like it at 150 more than when it was on my long travel bike at 170mm travel.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> To the people that had issues with steerers not being pressed in all the way, what was the fix from Manitou? I keep having to tighten the preload on my headset after one or two rides and it's starting to get annoying. Other than that the fork has been awesome, I actually like it at 150 more than when it was on my long travel bike at 170mm travel.


Mine was doing the same and started creaking a bit. They sent me a new CSU.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

OzIbis said:


> Mine was doing the same and started creaking a bit. They sent me a new CSU.


Good to know, I just sent them an email. Did the replacement CSU fix it for good?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> Good to know, I just sent them an email. Did the replacement CSU fix it for good?


Not sure how much QC the normal warranty replacements are going through these days, but I do know they have the ability to provide a CSU that has been fully seated.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> Good to know, I just sent them an email. Did the replacement CSU fix it for good?


Yeah no issues on the new CSU so far and it’s been in there since early June.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

EatsDirt said:


> Not sure how much QC the normal warranty replacements are going through these days, but I do know they have the ability to provide a CSU that has been fully seated.





OzIbis said:


> Yeah no issues on the new CSU so far and it’s been in there since early June.


Sweet, that's what I was hoping to hear, I'll see what they say once they get back to me.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Velodonata said:


> Just thinking out loud here, this is an idea I have tossed around before but am reminded of by looking at Dougal's charts. What would the result be of replacing the seal head with a piston, similar to the IRT piston, essentially a floating seal head. Or add a piston for that purpose, and open up the seal head and turn it into more of a guide bushing. The new piston would remain in it's current position until the pressure in the lowers exceeded the negative spring pressure which seems like it would reduce the end of stroke ramp up. But I'm not sure what other effects it would have, and if there are any specific setups where it would be beneficial. Maybe longer travel/lighter riders? It's not a particularly complicated change, but it would require some new/modified components.


Hmm, interesting idea, only issue with it that I see is potentially not enough shaft support, but I believe it could work 🤔 You could even make it relatively easily, just remove the top out spacer from the seal head, put an irt piston (or similar, if stanchion id is not the same) in its place, put a plastic spacer on top to replace said top out spacer and drill a couple of holes in the seal head after removing it's seal. Not sure if there wouldn't be more friction that way and you would lose about 10mm of travel if you wanted to preserve same negative volume 🤔 I like the idea, I'd even venture to try, if only I had a spare seal head at hand 😅


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> To the people that had issues with steerers not being pressed in all the way, what was the fix from Manitou? I keep having to tighten the preload on my headset after one or two rides and it's starting to get annoying. Other than that the fork has been awesome, I actually like it at 150 more than when it was on my long travel bike at 170mm travel.


I spoke with Hayes and they said not all steerers are pressed in all the way. They said it can loosen 5mm over time. They said that you can send it in and they will press it flush but it's not necessary.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

jacksonlui said:


> I spoke with Hayes and they said not all steerers are pressed in all the way. They said it can loosen 5mm over time. They said that you can send it in and they will press it flush but it's not necessary.


Loosen over time? That’s not cool. I just received a Mezzer produced in August this year (from memory) and the steerer definitely isn’t pressed flush. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Dougal said:


> I think you should drop 10psi from both and increase LSC.


I was able to try this new setting out today. (75/45 LSC closed, HSC open)
It's a little better in small bump than my old setting but not by much and I couldn't tell if I had more or less mid stroke support. It felt similar and it also felt good.
My old setting was (85/55 LSC open, HSC open)

I'm guessing dropping the pressure and closing LSC is the same as higher pressure and opening LSC for midstroke?
On both settings I've used about 80% travel although they differ by 10psi.

On another note, I'm losing about 1psi a day from the IRT. I will need to take it apart and grease everything. I haven't opened it up yet.
Not too happy about having to check fork pressures on top of tire pressures before every ride but I guess it's the price to pay for better performance.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

irck said:


> Loosen over time? That’s not cool. I just received a Mezzer produced in August this year (from memory) and the steerer definitely isn’t pressed flush.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've had several fox forks and none of them were pressed flush. None of them creaked or became loose. I think they press it in with a set pressure. At least you know it's going to be tight and you have some margin to make it more tight. If it's flush, there's no way of making it more tight.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

irck said:


> Loosen over time? That’s not cool. I just received a Mezzer produced in August this year (from memory) and the steerer definitely isn’t pressed flush.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s not dead flush when seated all the way home. There is a very small amount still sticking out below the crown. Even if it’s not quite pressed in all the way to where it should be it will eventually seat itself with enough impacts from riding. It’s not ideal and it’s a pain in the arse developing play in the front end during a ride which requires you to have some Allen keys with you and a quick steering head bearing adjustment on the trail. 
With mine it didn’t happen straight away but once it started moving it did it pretty regularly, on almost every ride, until it was obviously seated properly. It’s not a quality issue as such it’s a quality control issue. When the CSU is being assembled in the factory and already on the press it would take literally 2 seconds longer to press it a bit further. It’s something that is easy to fix at the manufacturing stage and just needs to be addressed by someone in quality control. They obviously know about it based on their response when it’s such a simple and pretty much cost free fix I can’t see why it’s not being sorted.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

jacksonlui said:


> I've had several fox forks and none of them were pressed flush. None of them creaked or became loose. I think they press it in with a set pressure. At least you know it's going to be tight and you have some margin to make it more tight. If it's flush, there's no way of making it more tight.


Cheers. I guess that’s a positive way to look at it. The RS Pike, Fox 34 and previous Pike (I own) are all flush. 

Edit: forgot to note that the three forks I indicated were the ones I personally own. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

OzIbis said:


> It’s not dead flush when seated all the way home. There is a very small amount still sticking out below the crown. Even if it’s not quite pressed in all the way to where it should be it will eventually seat itself with enough impacts from riding. It’s not ideal and it’s a pain in the arse developing play in the front end during a ride which requires you to have some Allen keys with you and a quick steering head bearing adjustment on the trail.
> With mine it didn’t happen straight away but once it started moving it did it pretty regularly, on almost every ride, until it was obviously seated properly. It’s not a quality issue as such it’s a quality control issue. When the CSU is being assembled in the factory and already on the press it would take literally 2 seconds longer to press it a bit further. It’s something that is easy to fix at the manufacturing stage and just needs to be addressed by someone in quality control. They obviously know about it based on their response when it’s such a simple and pretty much cost free fix I can’t see why it’s not being sorted.


Thanks for the response. I’ll have to double check when I get home but from memory mine has at least 5mm exposed. Poor quality control on something as simple as a steerer doesn’t exactly instil confidence in what is supposed to be an exceptional fork. Kind of hopes they’d have eliminated all the QC issues now they’ve done a couple years of batches. 

That aside I’m not really keen on a fork continually loosening in my headtube and damaging my frame somehow (dunno if that’s a thing but I’d rather not risk it in this time of COVID unavailability of absolutely everything). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Just relax and keep an eye on your head preload. You are stressing out about something that only seems to affect a very small percentage of forks, and is very low risk.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> Just relax and keep an eye on your head preload. You are stressing out about something that only seems to affect a very small percentage of forks, and is very low risk.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


I’m not stressed but I am unimpressed. As far percentages go, I’ve no idea but there seems to be a number of users on here that have had this problem. Hopefully it’ll just stay put and be non-issue. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

It is an exceptional fork. My Fox 36 wasn't flushed either. Had about 15mm expose but never creaked and never moved and never had to adjust my stack. 

Just out of curiosity, I went to PB and looked at a bunch of late model forks from different brands like RS and Fox and many had about 5-10mm and some were flushed.
I don't think this issue is unique to Hayes.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

jacksonlui said:


> It is an exceptional fork. My Fox 36 wasn't flushed either. Had about 15mm expose but never creaked and never moved and never had to adjust my stack. I don't think this issue is unique to Hayes.


Yeah, it sounds great. I had the option of going any of the usual brands but decided on the Mezzer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

jacksonlui said:


> It is an exceptional fork. My Fox 36 wasn't flushed either. Had about 15mm expose but never creaked and never moved and never had to adjust my stack.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, I went to PB and looked at a bunch of late model forks from different brands like RS and Fox and many had about 5-10mm and some were flushed.
> I don't think this issue is unique to Hayes.


Some of those other manu's likely designed their steerer to have a proud flange... that isn't the case with the Mezzer since the steerer can sit countersunk.

How the Mezzer steerer sitting proud affects your fork is a different story that seems to vary.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

irck said:


> I’m not stressed but I am unimpressed. As far percentages go, I’ve no idea but there seems to be a number of users on here that have had this problem. Hopefully it’ll just stay put and be non-issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah but that's what forums are for, to talk about parts and get help with issues so you are always going to hear more negative stuff than the actual percentage, how many people come here to say "just updating everyone, one year and no issues on my (insert part)...".
And while it's an annoying issue is nothing unsafe or unrideable, we are talking about a quarter to half turn of preload after a couple rides at most and Manitou has been nothing but amazing to deal with so I'm not worked about it, it'll get fixed


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Just to be clear, the are pressing the steerer home, not replacing the uppers? I'm sending mine for warranty, second time very loose bushings, might as well point out protruding steerer at the same time, would be a shame if I lost my crown race in the process 😅


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jacksonlui said:


> I spoke with Hayes and they said not all steerers are pressed in all the way. They said it can loosen 5mm over time. They said that you can send it in and they will press it flush but it's not necessary.


That's not right. 5mm isn't even possible.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

5mm would mean exposed steerer tube, not just the end bevel.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Does this cassette tool look suitable / long enough to clear the valve to remove the air spring (rod depressed)? Just wanted to check before I crack open my Mezzer to change the travel…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

if it has a hole in the middle then it's long enough.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> if it has a hole in the middle then it's long enough.


Thanks. There is a hole. Does this mean I won’t be able to use a standard torque wrench on it when reinstalling the air spring as it will fill that hole?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

You can just put a socket over the thing, instead of directly through the square drive.
I personally jus snug it by hand, just till it stops, it isn't supposed to be super tight.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Oh man. I’m an idiot. Don’t know why I didn’t think of putting a socket over it. Thanks mate!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

irck said:


> Does this cassette tool look suitable / long enough to clear the valve to remove the air spring (rod depressed)? Just wanted to check before I crack open my Mezzer to change the travel…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mine is 45mm long and it's barely enough (160mm travel). I can't get my wrench all the way in but halfway so I'm still able to use my torque wrench. It's super low torque.
I had to buy a deep 8mm socket so that I can torque the foot nut on the air side.

After a lowers service, it's buttery smooth. Still a little bit of stiction off the top.
It doesn't move when I climb. With my fox36, it moves a little when I climb, as a point of reference. Might be a good thing, I don't know.
I haven't done the damper side, not sure if I need to even look at it.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Went out again with the new settings
187lb, 160mm
70/45
LSC : 1/8 closed
HSC : 3/4
REB : 10/10 open
Sag: 22%
Travel: using 80%

I like the HSC 1 click closed. Seems to make a big difference in support. Although not as plush but feels pretty lively.

Still having trouble getting my push shock to match the fork. I need to figure out how to best do this without messing things up.

I still see a very slow leak on both the irt and main. I have to fill 1 psi every day which is annoying. I need to play around with this more and better determine my shock pump loss when attaching.

Im really liking this fork. I wonder if their shocks are just as good. I dont like the way they've implemented the brake cable clamp but thats just nit picking.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Just pre pressurize the hose before screwing it on all the way, that way you get the real reading of pressure inside.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I like to pull the IRT and put a big squirt of slickoleum on top of the IRT piston. Once stuff gets moving in there the slickoleum will migrate down to the oring and help seal and lubricate.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

irt the bath volume, what is the importance of 21cc versus 20cc? 
was just wondering, it's an odd number to target.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

jacksonlui said:


> irt the bath volume, what is the importance of 21cc versus 20cc?
> was just wondering, it's an odd number to target.


That's for extended service interval so doubt 1cc will make a difference but I rather run the 15cc and change it more often


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> That's for extended service interval so doubt 1cc will make a difference but I rather run the 15cc and change it more often


I run the 21cc and still change it often.


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

I have a new bike (chinese clone of santa cruz hightower) and I am setting the fork (mezzer pro set at 160 mm); I find confortable with pressures way lower than recommended; I don't know if it is me that I am strange; ok in winter I am doing very flowy trails and I want small bumps performance, maybe next summer in bike park I will feel like increasing a bit, but surely not at manitou recommended levels.
Now I have: rider 180 lbs/82 kg
main 35 psi IRT 40 psi
hidraulycs all open, maybe 1 click in low & high; sag is just 20-25 mm.
I could even go lower...


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

OzIbis said:


> I run the 21cc and still change it often.


That works too, fork is very progressive for my weight and riding style so my thinking is the 21cc should make the air in the lowers a tad more outside than 15cc but maybe it's not enough to make a difference


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

darius72 said:


> I have a new bike (chinese clone of santa cruz hightower) and I am setting the fork (mezzer pro set at 160 mm); I find confortable with pressures way lower than recommended; I don't know if it is me that I am strange; ok in winter I am doing very flowy trails and I want small bumps performance, maybe next summer in bike park I will feel like increasing a bit, but surely not at manitou recommended levels.
> Now I have: rider 180 lbs/82 kg
> main 35 psi IRT 40 psi
> hidraulycs all open, maybe 1 click in low & high; sag is just 20-25 mm.
> I could even go lower...


Those pressures are way too low for your weight. I think you should do at least a lower service on the fork and make sure everything is lubed properly. Then if you feel like you still don’t want to go up in pressure then do the 17.5mm shim swap and put the 12mm in. 
I’m 73kg (160lb) ready to ride and after the shim mod I’m running 52 main and 84 IRT LSC 1 click from closed HSC open 21cc of oil in both legs on 160mm travel. I’m also running Maxima 85-150 in the damper and bleed the damper so it’s slightly pressurised after it’s bled. Might be placebo effect but I think it makes the fork a little more active because the damper rod pushes out by itself when it’s bled that way. 
I find the fork amazing to ride like this. It’s plush but will take big hits and it never loses it’s composure.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

At 160lb those pressures are higher than mine. You must really ride hard.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

jacksonlui said:


> At 160lb those pressures are higher than mine. You must really ride hard.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


I’m not the fastest but definitely not the slowest either. I do like a fork that feels supportive and will take landings and hits and not lose its composure. There is a lot of rocks and rough areas where I ride and the ability to be able to let the bike just go and take the hits and have it stay online is very confidence inspiring. The thing is that the fork is still really nice and plush. I love it set that way. I’m running an EXT Storia V3 as well and the bike is very balanced front to rear set up the way it is. 
Set like that I’m regularly using the first 10mm of the HBO bumper during “normal” riding and more on bigger hits from rider error or something. I never bottom the fork out set like this though.


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

Let's forget jumps and landing for a while...to me using main pressure in 50 psi area makes the bike on flow trails (where I like to ride fast) really harsh and the fork not eliminating the small bumps


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

darius72 said:


> Let's forget jumps and landing for a while...to me using main pressure in 50 psi area makes the bike on flow trails (where I like to ride fast) really harsh and the fork not eliminating the small bumps


I haven’t found that to be the case with my fork with what I’ve done and the way it’s set up. I do like to feel like I’ve got a fork under me and not a sponge though. Probably comes down to personal preference.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

darius72 said:


> Let's forget jumps and landing for a while...to me using main pressure in 50 psi area makes the bike on flow trails (where I like to ride fast) really harsh and the fork not eliminating the small bumps


It's kinda like some people prefer a firmer setup.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Dougal said:


> It's kinda like some people prefer a firmer setup.


Yeah I think that’s me but I’ve found with tinkering that firm doesn’t have to mean harsh. I would still describe my fork as plush. In my mind there’s a difference between plush and something that blows through the stroke and uses excessive travel for the size of the impact.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I backed HSC back to full open again and left LSC fully closed with 70/45 as my pressures giving me 22% sag and 85% travel.
Seems like the seals are breaking in.
I will need to learn about modifying the shims to get even less HSC and more LSC so my dials are in the middle making them more usable.
Things may change once I burnish my bushings so I will need to let that settle.

The mezzer is easier to setup that the fox. setting main to tweak sag and irt to tweak full travel is simple. Having to top off air pressure on every ride is a pain in the ass but I'd gladly do it given the performance I've been experiencing and doing a lowers service is easier than the fox so I'd be more willing to do it more often.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Just an update on the 214 air piston quad seal I've been running, I probably have 10 hours on it and so far no issues, breakaway force seems to be less than standard 215 but I ordered a pull/push digital gauge so next time I take it apart I'll get some numbers to see if there is a quantifiable difference.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

like this one?








Sur-Seal XP70BUN214 214 Quad Ring, Buna NBR, 70 D: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


Sur-Seal XP70BUN214 214 Quad Ring, Buna NBR, 70 D: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com




$10 is a lot for a rubber ring


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

jacksonlui said:


> like this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah but I have a big pack coming so I could probably mail you a couple for like 2-3 bucks


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

that's awesome. I mean I wouldn't mind paying $10 if there is a noticeable performance benefit. I'm already paying $165 for a burnishing tool which I'm only going to use once.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

jacksonlui said:


> that's awesome. I mean I wouldn't mind paying $10 if there is a noticeable performance benefit. I'm already paying $165 for a burnishing tool which I'm only going to use once.


I'll let you know once I get them, should be a couple days


----------



## jscottyk (Jun 3, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> I found that on my fork, the ideal lower leg spacing was spot on for a 110mm hub *after* I removed the paint from the hub interface surfaces on the lowers. The paint is built up fairly thick here and this causes the lowers to splay a little too much. I made a 3D printed tool to carefully sand this paint down while preserving the flatness of the interface surface (and perpendicularity to the axle), which is very important to having a stiff fork assembly. PM me about the tool, maybe use a chemical to peel the paint, but use extreme caution here. [Edit: I have decked 3 other Mezzers and found that they needed a little correction to the metal as well, not just paint removal]


I'm really looking forward to using this tool from @CCS86.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

It's raining so it means take the fork apart.
Nothing has been done to the bushings.
It takes about 2kg to move the stanchions through both bushings without a hub attached.
It takes about 1.1kg with the hub attached.
The lowers are about 108mm on its own and my hubs are exactly 110mm.
It seems like the lowers needs to be pushed out and with the wheel on I should be ok. I dont think I need to sand the paint off. And I probably dont need to burnish the bushings although it will only help because they dont fall on their own weight. Still needs 1.1kg. Not too bad I guess.
Im wondering if I remove the paint, the hub wont push the lowers out far enough making it worse. Im thinking good enough and leave it alone. Burnish and see what the improvements are.

Also did notice the oil collected more above the white piece on the damper side. Might make sense to enlarge 3 of the slots for better drainage?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The paint removal is very small compared to the 2mm your lowers spring inwards.

Just because pushing them out 2mm lowers friction, doesn't mean that is the optimal distance.

But, in reality, decking the axle flanges isn't a friction reduction modification, like burnishing the bushings. If anything it helps create a more rigid assembly between the fork and the hub. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

jacksonlui said:


> like this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got the order so let me know how many you want, I ordered 25.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

jacksonlui said:


> It's raining so it means take the fork apart.
> Nothing has been done to the bushings.
> It takes about 2kg to move the stanchions through both bushings without a hub attached.
> It takes about 1.1kg with the hub attached.
> ...


Got the burnish tool today, the head measured 37.07mm.
You guys weren't kidding. The initial plunge took a lot of work. Backing it out the first time was pretty tough.
I'd recommend just removing the wheel and stepping on the axle. (You're not really stepping on it with a lot of force, it's just leverage.)
I did 3 passes per side and I didn't remove the seals and my (2kg no hub / 1.1kg with hub) went to 1.7kg no hub / 0.5kg with hub).
It didn't fall on it's own weight, probably because of the dust seal.
Looks like at 110mm spacing, it made a measurable difference.
I'm inclined to do 2 more passes per side. It's still snug.
Can't wait to give it a whirl on the trail.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Took it for a ride today. It seemed to improved chatter and small bump noticeably. It feels as if the rebound has been unstuck and is free to react to the trail. Was a good mod!
Im at 22% sag and using 82% travel without changing any pressure or settings. Didnt change these parameters , just opened up the arteries , so to speak.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

I just replaced my one year old Mezzer Pro from Dec 2020 with the identical fork. I used all my travel on a typical Seattle tech trail ride that I used to leave 20mm on the O-ring. Been off the bike for a few weeks and stuff was near freezing and slimy, so wasn't charging.

Anyone else notice the recent Mezzers running softer/less damped?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

juice said:


> I just replaced my one year old Mezzer Pro from Dec 2020 with the identical fork. I used all my travel on a typical Seattle tech trail ride that I used to leave 20mm on the O-ring. Been off the bike for a few weeks and stuff was near freezing and slimy, so wasn't charging.
> 
> Anyone else notice the recent Mezzers running softer/less damped?


Which trail?


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

Curveball said:


> Which trail?


A number that sums up to 9. 2 1/2 laps on a couple well-used trails, about 2500 ft of vert, didn't hit anything big. This is my stomping grounds, so it's a good place to test how my gear is set up. Fork felt good, didn't dive or anything, I was just quite surprised how much travel I used since I didn't take any hard landings. I was running 2 clicks of HSC (from open), 4 clicks of LSC, pressures pretty typical for my 190 lbs+ gear at 82/52 (pretty sure my pump reads a little low).

I'm going to double check my pressures, make sure I did what I thought I did. I might also reach out to Hayes to see if they made any changes.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

juice said:


> A number that sums up to 9. 2 1/2 laps on a couple well-used trails, about 2500 ft of vert, didn't hit anything big. This is my stomping grounds, so it's a good place to test how my gear is set up. Fork felt good, didn't dive or anything, I was just quite surprised how much travel I used since I didn't take any hard landings. I was running 2 clicks of HSC (from open), 4 clicks of LSC, pressures pretty typical for my 190 lbs+ gear at 82/52 (pretty sure my pump reads a little low).
> 
> I'm going to double check my pressures, make sure I did what I thought I did. I might also reach out to Hayes to see if they made any changes.


I’m 160lb ready to ride and run 52 and 84 and LSC 1 click from closed with HSC open. Try LSC fully closed then if you are still using more travel than you want/expect then start adding pressure to the IRT to add more resistance in the last part of the travel. Adding more LSC and adding more IRT shouldn’t hurt plushness too much. If you don’t like it go back. There’s plenty of adjustment there to play with just keep a log of what you’ve done so you can revert back to previous set ups if what you’ve tried is not to your liking and you will start to see patterns of what you like and what you don’t and you will be able to hone in on a set up you like pretty quickly


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Finally had a chance to start setting my new Mezzer up and I’ve noticed it only has 9 clicks of LSC instead of 10. Is this indicative of an issue or is it no big deal? HSC and rebound have the respective 4 and 10 clicks listed by Manitou. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

irck said:


> Finally had a chance to start setting my new Mezzer up and I’ve noticed it only has 9 clicks of LSC instead of 10. Is this indicative of an issue or is it no big deal? HSC and rebound have the respective 4 and 10 clicks listed by Manitou.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


9 clicks results in 10 separate LSC settings. My Mezzer has only 8 clicks for LSC, I don’t sweat it too much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

juice said:


> A number that sums up to 9. 2 1/2 laps on a couple well-used trails, about 2500 ft of vert, didn't hit anything big. This is my stomping grounds, so it's a good place to test how my gear is set up. Fork felt good, didn't dive or anything, I was just quite surprised how much travel I used since I didn't take any hard landings. I was running 2 clicks of HSC (from open), 4 clicks of LSC, pressures pretty typical for my 190 lbs+ gear at 82/52 (pretty sure my pump reads a little low).
> 
> I'm going to double check my pressures, make sure I did what I thought I did. I might also reach out to Hayes to see if they made any changes.


That's a great place to really test your suspension. It seems that I typically have around 25 mm travel left up there, but use all of it across the highway. I typically run 0 HSC, 3 of LSC, and 35/55 for my 155 lbs. All this on a 2019 build fork at 170 and 27.5. 

In the summer when it's easier to get more speed going at that system, I might add a click of both HSC and LSC to that base setting. I very much appreciate the HBO when I'm riding some of the burlier trails across the highway.


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

I pinged Hayes customer service. Really impressed with how quick they got back to me. They confirmed that there are no damping or air spring changes, other than the tweak to the rebound shim stack that's already been discussed.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Thanks to the people that have responded to my queries so far. It’s all been very helpful. I ended up getting a Unior cassette tool as the Rockshox one was too short and the opening was too small for the air valve to protrude through. 

I have another query - I was distracted when I began torquing the foot nuts up and initially forgot to secure the damper side with with Allen key (rookie error after only ever having has experience with a RS Pike). I would guess I did 3/4 of a turn all up without hitting any resistance before my brain turned back on and I realised why it wasn’t torquing. I was tightening carefully in small increments and I guess the shaft was turning rather than anything tightening enough to hit enough resistance to trigger a 3nm click. 

Could this have damaged anything in the damper? I can’t find a schematic of the damper so I don’t really have an idea of the internals.

Edit - I should probably note that I was torquing with a crowfoot wrench. I’ve just seen a video where the demonstrator was torquing the Allen bolt rather than the foot nut (and on the air side he used a wrench only and didn’t secure the valve with a socket). Here’s the vid


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

irck said:


> Thanks to the people that have responded to my queries so far. It’s all been very helpful. I ended up getting a Unior cassette tool as the Rockshox one was too short and the opening was too small for the air valve to protrude through.
> 
> I have another query - I was distracted when I began torquing the foot nuts up and initially forgot to secure the damper side with with Allen key (rookie error after only ever having has experience with a RS Pike). I would guess I did 3/4 of a turn all up without hitting any resistance before my brain turned back on and I realised why it wasn’t torquing. I was tightening carefully in small increments and I guess the shaft was turning rather than anything tightening enough to hit enough resistance to trigger a 3nm click.
> 
> ...


No the damper shaft would have just been rotating with the nut. It wouldn’t have hurt anything.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

OzIbis said:


> No the damper shaft would have just been rotating with the nut. It wouldn’t have hurt anything.


That’s good news  Thanks! I was worried I could have been unscrewing something internally in the assembly. 

Does the air shaft just rotate with the nut also (I’m asking preemptively in case of future carelessness haha). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

irck said:


> That’s good news  Thanks! I was worried I could have been unscrewing something internally in the assembly.
> 
> Does the air shaft just rotate with the nut also (I’m asking preemptively in case of future carelessness haha).
> 
> ...


Pretty much. You don’t want to do it too often though as you may start to wear or scratch some of the parts and create an oil leak out the bottom.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

OzIbis said:


> Pretty much. You don’t want to do it too often though as you may start to wear or scratch some of the parts and create an oil leak out the bottom.


Plan is to never do it again. Gave myself a bit of a fright when I realised what was happening!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

deleted


----------



## miles of pain (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm considering a mezzer or a zeb. Which of the two does a better job smoothing out chatter and combating hand fatigue?


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

miles of pain said:


> I'm considering a mezzer or a zeb. Which of the two does a better job smoothing out chatter and combating hand fatigue?


From my experience Rock Shox tend to be plush. That’s based on a Lyrik Ultimate I had on a previous bike and the Pike Ultimate on my wife’s bike. I then had a DVO Diamond in the next bike I bought which I changed to a Mezzer Pro and I also spent some time on a Fox 36 Factory. Without a doubt the Mezzer Pro has the best damping quality of them. It is also a very progressive fork with the air spring set up it has. That can be changed by adjusting the air springs but if set up as recommended it is progressive. The Mezzer is and will be more difficult to set up if you don’t understand it. Once you understand the air springs it’s easy to set up.
The big upsides are that the Mezzer is quite a bit lighter than the Zeb is still stiff and has the hydraulic bottom out bumper AND it’s cheaper. The pins and needles and numbness I used to get especially on the Diamond disappeared as soon as I started using the Mezzer. I have now gone to quite a firm set up on my Mezzer but I would still describe it as plush in the initial part of the stroke but it’s incredibly supportive. The Mezzer Pro is an incredibly good fork. The best I’ve ridden. Even though I haven’t actually ridden a Zeb it would most likely be my second choice. I’m sure it’s a really nice fork but the Mezzer Pro just ticks too many boxes in my mind and it’s almost infinitely adjustable.
A couple of other things to consider they you may or may not know are that you can change the travel on a Mezzer Pro (140mm-180mm) with the supplied clip in travel adjusters so you don’t have to buy a new air spring like the RS and Fox and you don’t have to pull the top cap out of the fork and add and remove tokens to change the progression of the fork on the Mezzer like the other two you just add or remove air from the IRT with a shock pump to get the feel you want.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

miles of pain said:


> I'm considering a mezzer or a zeb. Which of the two does a better job smoothing out chatter and combating hand fatigue?


In my experience nothing beats a coiled fork with regards to smoothing out chatter, plushness, suppleness and good midstroke support once you’ve found the right coil spring weight for your body weight, riding style and personal preference. In terms of air forks, the Mezzer is very ja d to beat, but nothing beats coil in my personal opinion…and if you get the Vorsprung Smashpot you can have your cake and eat it too as it includes very nicely and super effective adjustable HBO. Only caveat with Smashpot is added weight and believe it’s only available for Fox and RS forks. But if you want air and like tinkering and experimenting with different setups, the Mezzer Pro is awesome. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

miles of pain said:


> I'm considering a mezzer or a zeb. Which of the two does a better job smoothing out chatter and combating hand fatigue?


I’ve owned a Zeb ultimate, fox 38 Performance elite and now been on a Mezzer pro for the last year.

I cannot recommend the Mezzer enough. The Zeb was definitely stiffer than the Mezzer (too stiff unless I was riding bike park berms fast) and it’s quite good, when you’re up to speed, at erasing small repeated hits (think 1-4in tall bumps). At slower speeds though it doesn’t feel very willing absorb those same small bumps and I found it to even hang up sometimes. Where I really struggled with the Zeb was having a plush fork and supportive midstroke, as soon as I upped the pressure enough ( we are talking a couple psi here) to make it supportive it would get harsh. Tried using compression to get the support I needed but to no avail. I tried more tokens, no tokens, more damping, no damping, and a combination of all of those. I really wanted to love the fork ( the matte grey colour is HOT, second only to my LE silver Mezzer ) but I just couldn’t get on with it. I felt limited and pigeon holed regarding a set up and started considering aftermarket tuning options before deciding just to sell it and try a Fox 38 (which I liked more but it had its own faults).

Where the Mezzer wins for me is it’s adjustability. It deals with slow speed chatter better than the Zeb (comparable to the 38) and high speed just as well (better than tge 38). I found the Zeb causes a fair amount of hand fatigue in everything except flat out bike park. Yes the Mezzer takes more time to set up or atleast to understand how to set up, but it really gives you so many options. The range of tuning from the irt and main chamber, in addition to the range of useable and noticeable damping is amazing and exactly what I’ve always wanted. The other big selling feature is HBO, I’ve had some gnarly flat landings and never feel the fork bottom out.

With all of this said, the Zeb with a smashpot would likely be a great fork too. Although the damper is inferior compared to the Mezzer in my experience. Consider what you’re willing to spend and what your priorities are. The Zeb with some aftermarket add-ons/upgrades will be a great fork, but also heavier and more expensive than the Mezzer. The Mezzer is great out of the box, but you will need to experiment a little bit at first to understand how to get the most out of it for your riding and terrain. Luckily this forum and the main Mezzer forum have lots of info and set ups to reference and speed up this process.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

Deleted.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Mezzer Expert arrived today, installed it, and took it for a spin. I had a 170mm Lyrik Ultimate previously and have the Mezzer set at 180mm. Wow, just a quick shakedown ride around the neighborhood down a 20 stair set and a few 3-4 drops, and this thing is butter compared to the Lyrik. Hard to imagine 10mm of travel would make a difference like this.

Mezzer at 20% sag for my 220lb weight which was pretty much bang on with the psi recommendation from Manitou. I have the IRT on the way, and can't wait to install that. This thing is already feeling really good, I'm impressed...


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Did the first serious run on the Expert today down the Luge, and it held the ground like a vacuum cleaner. The ground was hardpack with large rocks scattered going up, and sticky dirt and minimal rocks in the trail going down. The trail was fast and clean with the usual chunky highspeed drops, with a few tire wide mini kickers on the way down to the flag... Awesome work whoever did trail maintenance there after the rains.

This fork is confidence inspiring and I still don't have the IRT in it yet.


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

Anyone got any ideas what could be wrong. Have this clicking sound going on, comes and goes. Suppension feels butter smooth.
Things i've done so far:

Greased and check all headset bearings. All bolts torque to spec.
Changed different stems
Changed Bars
Used both top expanding and star nut
All internal cables have insulation
Tried with the front brakes uninstalled and click is still there.
Flipped the bike upside down and squeezed the stachions, 0 csu creak.

I had a lyrik on before and had 0 clickings sounds, just switched over to the mezzer today and this sound is apperaing.









20220118_181223.mp4


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

davidt93 said:


> Anyone got any ideas what could be wrong. Have this clicking sound going on, comes and goes. Suppension feels butter smooth.
> Things i've done so far:
> 
> Greased and check all headset bearings. All bolts torque to spec.
> ...


In the Pinkbike review for the Expert there was a clicking sound that was a washer getting stuck, and had to get it warrantied.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

davidt93 said:


> Anyone got any ideas what could be wrong. Have this clicking sound going on, comes and goes. Suppension feels butter smooth.
> Things i've done so far:
> 
> Greased and check all headset bearings. All bolts torque to spec.
> ...


I think it is the CSU. Mine started making a very similar noise and that’s how it started off initially then got progressively worse. It didn’t effect performance at all but it’s bloody annoying. 
To check for sure you need to take the fork out of the bike and remove the lowers and grab the bottom of the stanchions and try and flex them in and out. I would be surprised if they remain silent. Hayes was excellent when mine had an issue with that so do the test and if that’s it contact them.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Has anyone experimented with a faster rebound shim stack than stock (MY21)? If I remember correctly, there's a preloaded face shim, spacer, then another non-preloaded shim. There does not seem to be much room to make it faster.


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

just an update... flipped the bike again and this time applied more pressure and its the csu creaking.








20220119_182710.mp4


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

davidt93 said:


> just an update... flipped the bike again and this time applied more pressure and its the csu creaking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a different noise to most CSU creaks, but it might just be the camera/microphone. If you can get the same noise with the fork out then it's the CSU.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Has anyone done a full rebuild on a pro? I had mine apart and did everything but the top damper adjuster assembly because I ran out of time and wanted to get one more ride in before the weather turned for the worst here.

I had a quick look at it but couldn't figure out how to take it apart before I had to reassemble.


----------



## Twilight Error (Jan 12, 2004)

miles of pain said:


> I'm considering a mezzer or a zeb. Which of the two does a better job smoothing out chatter and combating hand fatigue?


I just removed a Zeb from my Salsa Cassidy and installed a Mezzer Pro. The Zeb is an okay fork but getting it up to the performance of a Mezzer with the better damper and some other tuning bits would be almost as expensive as a new fork and it would still be heavier. Echoing other comments, I found the Zeb very binary - it was either very plush in chatter but divey, or supportive in mid-to-late stroke but harsh on small bumps. The damper in mine is the very base model with only rebound adjustment, so I was limited to tokens and air pressure to try to dial the fork. From experience with my other bike, a Salsa Rustler that I'd also installed a Mezzer Pro on, I could tune the fork to ride how I wanted it to.

Right now, the Cassidy is set up for 160/145, but in the summer, I'll adjust it to 180/165 for park riding. I don't smash berms with this bike, I prefer the chunky techy woods trails, and I know the Mezz is plenty precise in that terrain.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Installed the IRT on my Expert a few days ago and set it at the Manitou recommendation for my 220lb weight at 180mm travel (Manitou's Pro spec 64/92psi). Hmmmm, felt stiffer than the IVA but still better than the Lyrik I had in previously. Still I really lusted after the buttery smoothness of the IVA set at Manitou's spec, and wondered if I had made a mistake installing the IRT.

I read this thread from beginning to end, and was wondering how to get to the CCS86 calculator, finally figured it out after a few minutes. Set the Expert at roughly (hard to judge on the 300psi analog gauge) the settings it spit out of calculator, 84psi IRT/58psi Main, compression full open, and bumped the rebound one click faster to 5 out from closed.

Took it out for a spin on a loop I did last week in Aliso with the IVA, and WOW the IRT is better. Same plushness with more bottom out resistance. I bottomed out the IVA on the same trails last week and today only used roughly 90%. I'll play more with the psi when the digital Venzo pump arrives (same as RS and Fox). The Expert with IRT is amazing and hard to believe the IRT only cost $50.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jmvar said:


> Has anyone done a full rebuild on a pro? I had mine apart and did everything but the top damper adjuster assembly because I ran out of time and wanted to get one more ride in before the weather turned for the worst here.
> 
> I had a quick look at it but couldn't figure out how to take it apart before I had to reassemble.


Yeah it's pretty straight-forward. The LSC knob pulls up once the screw is out, there's a nut (finger tight) holding down the HSC knob). Damper is very reliable, they only need an oil change because the oil degrades.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

JK-47 said:


> Installed the IRT on my Expert a few days ago and set it at the Manitou recommendation for my 220lb weight at 180mm. Hmmmm, felt stiffer than the IVA but still better than the Lyrik I had in previously. Still I really lusted after the buttery smoothness of the IVA set at Manitou's spec, and wondered if I had made a mistake installing the IRT.
> 
> I read this thread from beginning to end, and was wondering how to get to the CCS86 calculator, finally figured it out after a few minutes. Set the Expert at roughly (hard to judge on the 300psi analogue gauge) the settings it spit out of calculator, 84psi IRT/58psi Main, compression full open, and bumped the rebound one click faster to 5 out from closed.
> 
> Took it out for a spin on a loop I did last week in Aliso with the IVA, and WOW the IRT is better. Same plushness with more bottom out resistance. I bottomed out the IVA on the same trails last week and today only used roughly 90%. I'll play more with the psi when the digital Venzo pump arrives (same as RS and Fox). The Expert with IRT is amazing and hard to believe the IRT only cost $50.


I’ve been playing around a little with pressures and I’ve found that if you set your IRT psi to your riding weight in KG and divide that by 1.65 and set the main pressure to that it should get you pretty close to the money. If you aren’t using most of your travel for the riding you are doing then drop the IRT a little at a time until you use the travel you are happy with and the progression you want. The main should be very close with maybe a variation of a couple of psi either way depending on how plush you want the fork. I’m running a few PSI over on both in my fork now because I like a firm supportive feeling but I’m not far away from the numbers that calculation gave me.
I should note that I’m running 160mm travel and that calculation works for that travel. If you are running 170mm then drop the number the calculation gives you by 6%. That should get things very close. That’s what I’ve found anyway can’t hurt to see if it works for others.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Experimenting with some faster rebound tunes. Am 160lbs, run 51psi in main and was previously running rebound close to fully open for reference.

With this new tune im able to run rebound 4 out from closed which felt great. Mid speed is fast, a little too fast, and then still had great bottom out control since second stack only has .1 shim in-between it and the washer. 

Even though it's arguably too fast, I like it better than stock. Might try some other combos but not sure what else to try.









Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

croakies said:


> Experimenting with some faster rebound tunes. Am 160lbs, run 51psi in main and was previously running rebound close to fully open for reference.
> 
> With this new tune im able to run rebound 4 out from closed which felt great. Mid speed is fast, a little too fast, and then still had great bottom out control since second stack only has .1 shim in-between it and the washer.
> 
> ...


I need to mess with mine. I feel like I swap between fully open and a quarter turn from fully open (my rebound knob doesnt click). I'd feel more comfortable if I had a bigger range to play with.


----------



## Carmel (Apr 21, 2014)

croakies said:


> Experimenting with some faster rebound tunes. Am 160lbs, run 51psi in main and was previously running rebound close to fully open for reference.
> 
> With this new tune im able to run rebound 4 out from closed which felt great. Mid speed is fast, a little too fast, and then still had great bottom out control since second stack only has .1 shim in-between it and the washer.
> 
> ...


Could you detail what shims you have now? I still have the stock shimstack and at 160lbs I run it mostly fully open @48/75psi


Piston
13 x 6 x 0.1
 9 x 6 x 0.1
13 x 6 x 0.1
13 x 6 x 0.1 <- I don't have this one
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
8.5 x 6 x 0.2 <- I guess you removed these two and replaced it with a 9x6x0.1?
12 x 6 x 1.0


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

croakies said:


> Experimenting with some faster rebound tunes. Am 160lbs, run 51psi in main and was previously running rebound close to fully open for reference.
> 
> With this new tune im able to run rebound 4 out from closed which felt great. Mid speed is fast, a little too fast, and then still had great bottom out control since second stack only has .1 shim in-between it and the washer.
> 
> ...


Interesting, keen to hear what shims you used! I've also found the rebound to be a tad too slow for my liking (also running rebound fully open), so a bit more adjustment range would be nice...

...so I pulled the damper apart to remove the extra shim from the rebound circuit as recommended in this thread on first page. Or that was my intention. My shim stack, however, differ from the stock tune. What I've found was:

Piston
12 x 6 x 0.1
9 x 6 x 0.1
12 x 6 x 0.1
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
8.5 x 6 x 0.2

My Mezzer is a late MY20 (August, if I remember correctly). Any thoughts on what to change for a tad faster rebound?


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Two_bricks said:


> Interesting, keen to hear what shims you used! I've also found the rebound to be a tad too slow for my liking (also running rebound fully open), so a bit more adjustment range would be nice...
> 
> ...so I pulled the damper apart to remove the extra shim from the rebound circuit as recommended in this thread on first page. Or that was my intention. My shim stack, however, differ from the stock tune. What I've found was:
> 
> ...


I had the same exact stack as you (including the 12mm shims). My notes below. Do keep in mind I do not have a dyno or shim modelling software so am just taking random stabs in the dark based off of intuition haha. Will also say stock rebound setup is great overall (better for me than GRIP 2/RC2 I was on recently), am really just trying to get a closer match to my EXT shock on the rear which has slow slow speed rebound and fast mid speed rebound and it's fun to tinker.

I am currently running this stack.....

Piston
12 x 6 x 0.1
9 x 6 x 0.1
8 x 6 x 0.1 ---Added this to create a gap to next shim and speed up "mid speed". This is a significant softening of stack in the slow-mid speed region.
12 x 6 x 0.1
12 x 6 x 0.1 --Added another 12mm here to firm up in the end stroke/high speed region
8 x 6 x 0.1 --reduced gap to solid washer to only .1 from stock .4 which significantly firms up end stroke/high speed region. 
Washer

On my last ride, mid speed felt too fast, and high speed/end stroke was on the slow side so I am going to try this next...

Piston
12 x 6 x 0.1
8 x 6 x 0.15 ---Smaller diameter than stock and .05 thicker. Should be faster than stock but not as fast as I had it. 
12 x 6 x 0.1 ---Going to try just 1 of these here but not sure if I should stick with 2 and just increase gap to solid washer instead. (not sure if the slow highspeed on previous stack was due to double'd up 12mm or small gap to washer.)
8 x 6 x 0.1
8 x 6 x 0.15 --Going to try a .25 gap to washer which is more than I had before (.1) but less than stock (.4). 
Washer


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

croakies said:


> I had the same exact stack as you (including the 12mm shims). My notes below. Do keep in mind I do not have a dyno or shim modelling software so am just taking random stabs in the dark based off of intuition haha. Will also say stock rebound setup is great overall (better for me than GRIP 2/RC2 I was on recently), am really just trying to get a closer match to my EXT shock on the rear which has slow slow speed rebound and fast mid speed rebound and it's fun to tinker.
> 
> I am currently running this stack.....
> 
> ...


would adding an extra face shim slow the low speed down?.
I.e piston, 12,12,9 then the rest?.
just curious as I was going to look into slowing my low speed but keeping my high speed next time I do a fluid change.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

croakies said:


> I had the same exact stack as you (including the 12mm shims). My notes below. Do keep in mind I do not have a dyno or shim modelling software so am just taking random stabs in the dark based off of intuition haha. Will also say stock rebound setup is great overall (better for me than GRIP 2/RC2 I was on recently), am really just trying to get a closer match to my EXT shock on the rear which has slow slow speed rebound and fast mid speed rebound and it's fun to tinker.
> 
> I am currently running this stack.....
> 
> ...


With my limited knowledge of suspension tuning (literally none) your stabbing in the dark-approach and reasoning still sound solid. And I'm also aiming for a very similar rebound feel so I'll have to try your setup and see how it feels. 

So thanks for sharing!👍


----------



## MiKo84 (11 mo ago)

Hello Mezzer Wizzards

I have a quick question. I just changed the travel of my mezzer pro to 170mm. The airshaft was shorter than the dampershaft when i reinstalled the lowers. So the dempershaft had to compress / be pushed back a little before both threads for the airside footnut appeared. I guess this is normal?

I watched all the travel change video’s, but in these movies both shafts always appear equal in lenght. 

So can someone ease my mind and tell me that the airshaft extension gets shorter when you shorten the travel on a mezzer. Thanks a lot!

By the way: very cool and informative thread!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

MiKo84 said:


> Hello Mezzer Wizzards
> 
> I have a quick question. I just changed the travel of my mezzer pro to 170mm. The airshaft was shorter than the dampershaft when i reinstalled the lowers. So the dempershaft had to compress / be pushed back a little before both threads for the airside footnut appeared. I guess this is normal?
> 
> ...


The damper can do 180mm stroke with a bit left for top-out. So yes it'll be longer than the air-shaft at 170mm.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

cashews said:


> would adding an extra face shim slow the low speed down?.
> I.e piston, 12,12,9 then the rest?.
> just curious as I was going to look into slowing my low speed but keeping my high speed next time I do a fluid change.


What is stopping you from slowing down low speed adjuster? Packing? If so you actually might want faster mid speed rebound so that you can close low speed adjuster further without packing.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## MiKo84 (11 mo ago)

Dougal said:


> The damper can do 180mm stroke with a bit left for top-out. So yes it'll be longer than the air-shaft at 170mm.


Thank you!


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

croakies said:


> What is stopping you from slowing down low speed adjuster? Packing? If so you actually might want faster mid speed rebound so that you can close low speed adjuster further without packing.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


yeah pretty much, I like the current rebound speed from deeper in the stroke but the just riding along speed feels undamped, if I slow it down it feels like the deeper stroke rebound doesn't recover fast enough, I've also gotten used to faster rebound speeds over the last year so I notice when some thing is slower than I'm used to.

I was just thinking along the lines of making the face shim stiffer so the oil would pass through the low speed passage (needle?)for longer as its slowed down before the shims opened for the mid & hsr. 
sort of like the lsc & hsc setup, or I may be well off the mark on how it actually works, happy to be educated on the workings so I get a better understanding of whats going on.

Is the face shim(12 or 13) the lsr to mid speed transition & the last shim (12 or 13) before the solid washer is the high speed?.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm doing rebound (and compression) tuning on these currently. I hope to have a few test rides next week.

Turns out my even longer bike, that I've been riding for a year, should have almost 10% less spring and damping than my previous bike. I should have run the numbers earlier but the last year has been somewhat mental.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

So the steerers not being pressed in properly is definitely a thing. I’ve had three rides on my 2021 Mezzer and I’ve had to significantly readjust my preload/stem in the middle of each ride. 

It’s not vague thing, half an hour into a ride with a bit of rocky descending it’s getting loose enough that it feels like something is rattling. (Quite disconcerting when you’re smashing through a rock garden at speed and your fork starts rattling.) Visually the steerer has gone from being about 5mm proud (from memory) to about 2mm. Doesn’t sound like much but it looks like a lot. Never had this issue with any of the other forks I’ve used. 

Everything else about the fork is great but this is definitely a bit of a disappointing issue. Hopefully it doesn’t happen again because I don’t imagine it’s doing my headset/headtube any favours when the steerer is banging around in there.


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

irck said:


> So the steerers not being pressed in properly is definitely a thing. I’ve had three rides on my 2021 Mezzer and I’ve had to significantly readjust my preload/stem in the middle of each ride.
> 
> It’s not vague thing, half an hour into a ride with a bit of rocky descending it’s getting loose enough that it feels like something is rattling. (Quite disconcerting when you’re smashing through a rock garden at speed and your fork starts rattling.) Visually the steerer has gone from being about 5mm proud (from memory) to about 2mm. Doesn’t sound like much but it looks like a lot. Never had this issue with any of the other forks I’ve used.
> 
> Everything else about the fork is great but this is definitely a bit of a disappointing issue. Hopefully it doesn’t happen again because I don’t imagine it’s doing my headset/headtube any favours when the steerer is banging around in there.



Are you actually noticing your pressed in steerer tube pushing out of the crown?!! That's definitely not normal. I would stop riding it and send it back in for a warranty repair.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

irck said:


> So the steerers not being pressed in properly is definitely a thing. I’ve had three rides on my 2021 Mezzer and I’ve had to significantly readjust my preload/stem in the middle of each ride.
> 
> It’s not vague thing, half an hour into a ride with a bit of rocky descending it’s getting loose enough that it feels like something is rattling. (Quite disconcerting when you’re smashing through a rock garden at speed and your fork starts rattling.) Visually the steerer has gone from being about 5mm proud (from memory) to about 2mm. Doesn’t sound like much but it looks like a lot. Never had this issue with any of the other forks I’ve used.
> 
> Everything else about the fork is great but this is definitely a bit of a disappointing issue. Hopefully it doesn’t happen again because I don’t imagine it’s doing my headset/headtube any favours when the steerer is banging around in there.


In my experience (two CSU's did this) it will keep going until bottomed out (flush flange). Unfortunately for me this meant creaking by the time it got there, YMMV. 

Manitou CS should be aware of the problem now and provide a replacement that is pressed to a stop if necessary. Kind of a pain in the @ss to deal with but I found it worthwhile in the end.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

irck said:


> So the steerers not being pressed in properly is definitely a thing. I’ve had three rides on my 2021 Mezzer and I’ve had to significantly readjust my preload/stem in the middle of each ride.
> 
> It’s not vague thing, half an hour into a ride with a bit of rocky descending it’s getting loose enough that it feels like something is rattling. (Quite disconcerting when you’re smashing through a rock garden at speed and your fork starts rattling.) Visually the steerer has gone from being about 5mm proud (from memory) to about 2mm. Doesn’t sound like much but it looks like a lot. Never had this issue with any of the other forks I’ve used.
> 
> Everything else about the fork is great but this is definitely a bit of a disappointing issue. Hopefully it doesn’t happen again because I don’t imagine it’s doing my headset/headtube any favours when the steerer is banging around in there.


Call up for a new CSU. They're supposed to stay tight but not fully pressed.


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

My first Mezzer did this (Dec ‘20), but settled in after a few rides and never creaked. I was one of those people that could only get a few months out of a Fox 36 before it creaked. Brand new Mezzer has been fine and looks fully seated.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

I can't find a quick answer to this - does Manitou not sell a 170mm version of a Mezzer Pro? Only 160 and 180? Solution is to just get whatever travel and reconfigure it with spacers I guess?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> I can't find a quick answer to this - does Manitou not sell a 170mm version of a Mezzer Pro? Only 160 and 180? Solution is to just get whatever travel and reconfigure it with spacers I guess?


Yes. I found 180mm sat a bit high on climbs and 170mm was just right.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

GH28 said:


> I can't find a quick answer to this - does Manitou not sell a 170mm version of a Mezzer Pro? Only 160 and 180? Solution is to just get whatever travel and reconfigure it with spacers I guess?


Only 160 and 180, sorry. The good news is they're very easy to change the travel on if you're at all mechanically inclined. They are also identical forks so you can get whatever is in stock.


----------



## Twilight Error (Jan 12, 2004)

ungod said:


> Only 160 and 180, sorry. The good news is they're very easy to change the travel on if you're at all mechanically inclined. They are also identical forks so you can get whatever is in stock.


And the spacers you need to adjust travel are all included. The only thing not in the box is the tool required to remove the air spring from the stanchion. There is a chance Manitou will configure the travel if you buy directly from them - I did that for one of my Mezzers, I requested 150mm travel, they sent me the fork with an opened and resealed spacer kit containing one puck, I confirmed the travel was 150 when I opened the fork for an oil change.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

DirtDiggler said:


> Are you actually noticing your pressed in steerer tube pushing out of the crown?!! That's definitely not normal. I would stop riding it and send it back in for a warranty repair.


No, the steerer is pushing further into the crown. Definitely preferable to pushing out but still pretty unsettling when it happens mid-decent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

EatsDirt said:


> In my experience (two CSU's did this) it will keep going until bottomed out (flush flange). Unfortunately for me this meant creaking by the time it got there, YMMV.
> 
> Manitou CS should be aware of the problem now and provide a replacement that is pressed to a stop if necessary. Kind of a pain in the @ss to deal with but I found it worthwhile in the end.





Dougal said:


> Call up for a new CSU. They're supposed to stay tight but not fully pressed.


Thanks guys. I’ll look into it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

I just received my Mezzer Pro yesterday and pulled it apart to adjust the travel down to 140mm. When I pulled the air spring out there was quite a bit of slickolium setting on the top (probably 10-15cc). I wiped it off and used it to lube the seal and threads for reassembly. Looking at the service guide today I see that it states to add 3cc slickolium to the top of the air spring. My question is, should I of put slickolium back on top of the air spring. I’ve never seen this excess glob of grease or anybody do this in videos showing travel change.









Also I’m a heavier rider 245-250lbs and would like to hear any recommendations on setup. Seems everyone on here is 150lbs. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Abunchahicks said:


> I just received my Mezzer Pro yesterday and pulled it apart to adjust the travel down to 140mm. When I pulled the air spring out there was quite a bit of slickolium setting on the top (probably 10-15cc). I wiped it off and used it to lube the seal and threads for reassembly. Looking at the service guide today I see that it states to add 3cc slickolium to the top of the air spring. My question is, should I of put slickolium back on top of the air spring. I’ve never seen this excess glob of grease or anybody do this in videos showing travel change.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes that grease is supposed to be there as a reservoir for the piston to keep it lubed. With less grease your maintenance intervals are shorter.

Try 120/70psi for a start.


----------



## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Yes that grease is supposed to be there as a reservoir for the piston to keep it lubed. With less grease your maintenance intervals are shorter.
> 
> Try 120/70psi for a start.


Thanks, do you recommend the 17.5 to 12mm shim swap at my weight?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Abunchahicks said:


> Thanks, do you recommend the 17.5 to 12mm shim swap at my weight?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hell no. It's for people under 80kg.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Hi, long time lurker just wanted to say thanks to CCS86, JMVAR, Croakie and obviously Dougal!

I initially bought a pair of Mezzers in Jan 2020 but found them very harsh on HSC, I did look to get this sorted but they were to new (over here at least) for knowledge and willingness to tune them.

So I sold them on and got some Coil RXF 36 M.2 with a lighter tune from the start.
I’ve ridden for over 20 years and they have been the best I’ve ever used having ridden most top end forks.

Well they were 29 and now I’m back on a 27.5, was going to buy Ohlins again but supply/cost put me off this time round, so armed with 2 years knowledge/experience having read most of the original Mezzer thread and this one I bought another pair of Mezzers 😎

Off the bat I stripped, lubed them, setup with factory and CCS86 pressures, Dougal damp all good, they rode a little better I think than my first set but I knew I wanted to improve them as OOTB the performance gap between the Mezzer and Ohlins 36 M.2 is vast - I know I’m also comparing Air to Coil.

I weigh 84-86kg geared up so opted to swap out the 17.5 comp stack shim for a 12mm one.

I did Croakies oil drain mod and I also fitted a 214 quad ring as the set/stiction was very noticeable.

Straight away the breakaway force is much improved at the same pressures, and no overnight ‘set’.

Can someone confirm how many LSC clicks there is supposed to be?

I was running LSC 2 from closed and HSC full open.
With the new shim stack arrangement what is a good starting point for the damper settings?
Will be out on them this weekend 👍

Hats of to Manitou for making information available and working on the forks easy with basic tools.
For anyone on the fence, if you have basic skill, awareness, common sense and a clean place to work it’s not at all difficult to work on, worst case get your local suspension specialist to do it for you. It was my first time (😂) and it took me 2 hrs all in.

TOOLS;
2 beers for hydration
Hardwood with 16mm hole
Adjustable/20mm spanner
Decent vice
M5 syringes
Deep cassette tool
Deep 14mm
Deep 11mm
6mm allen
2mm allen
T10 torx

Thanks again everyone 🍻







​


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Couple questions about compression settings:

1. If you want a bit more compression when at 0HSC+Closed LSC, would the next step up be 1HSC+Open LSC?

2. Is there a difference in performance when shimmed for more compression with HSC dial open and shimmed for less compression but with added HSC clicks?


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

tastik said:


> Couple questions about compression settings:
> 
> 1. If you want a bit more compression when at 0HSC+Closed LSC, would the next step up be 1HSC+Open LSC?
> 
> 2. Is there a difference in performance when shimmed for more compression with HSC dial open and shimmed for less compression but with added HSC clicks?


1. Next increase in compression would be lsc closed & hsc +1 from open.
From my understanding when the lsc is closed the main oil flow is through the hsc shims already.

2.Possibly but personal preference I think, it depends how far you go in either direction & what riding your doing with the fork.

I've shimmed heavier & it was very firm but fast, good if you like to skip over the tops of the bumps & have the shoulders & wrists that can cope with it.

I've shimmed slightly lighter than stock & it's taken the edge off the hand feedback through most of the stroke. doesn't feel as fast as the firmer shims, but it's definitely more comfortable, you also have the option of adding HSC from there for different terrain.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Well I didn’t get any feedback, so I started out LSC 2 from closed and HSC 2 from open.
Still a bit harsh, so ran it closed and open respectively.

Definitely too much ramp up with 82/46, was getting knocked off line on big hits and only using 2/3rd travel (170).

Didn’t have my shock pump with me stupidly so will setup more linear and have at it again.
Impressed with the small bump side of things tho.

No issues with the 214 seal at 5c either.


----------



## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

I’m 90kg and ride a 170mm with same shim mod as you. I like lsc closed and hsc +1 from open, still sorting out rebound but seem to like in the middle or slightly faster (more open). 
Try lowering your IRT pressure first for addressing harsh ramp up. So, if initial stroke and suppleness off the top feels good, that should help. I run 48/79. As you may have read, small 1, to 2lb difference in pressures are significant with Mezzer.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Hi, appreciate the response thanks.
I’ve pretty much dialled in the same as you, a bit softer still on the IRT tho - 68/48, see how it goes, the damper feels good, just too much ramp before 🙂


----------



## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

DG370 said:


> Hi, appreciate the response thanks.
> I’ve pretty much dialled in the same as you, a bit softer still on the IRT tho - 68/48, see how it goes, the damper feels good, just too much ramp before


Sure thing! 
That’s a big change in IRT. Did you get there incrementally? I find changing 2lb at a time allows for good bracketing to find the goldilocks place.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

No I’ve just punted there based on messing about at home and being a good 15% difference so I can feel both ends of the spectrum and hone in


----------



## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

DG370 said:


> No I’ve just punted there based on messing about at home and being a good 15% difference so I can feel both ends of the spectrum and hone in


Curious to see what you find, but I’ve found that though the percentage change may be small in lb number, the percentage change in fork dynamics at 5lbs is significant for your purposes. 
Also it helped to understand how two air springs work together. Y’all jump in if I’m wrong, but my understanding is that the split between the two determines when in the stroke the IRT “joins in” with main and the two then combine; and that summed amount of air pressure then progresses as travel moves toward bottom out. So, when ratio/ difference between the two decreases by lowering just IRT, that combined point happens sooner, giving more mid-stroke support; and the overall ramp up/progression decreases.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Anyone know if these marks on the stanchions indicate that bushings are too tight? It still does this after a couple hundred miles on the fork now. It's just oil, for now anyway, and when wiped well it looks uniform. Was never this pronounced on other forks that I've had


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

I’ve read before this is a sign that you’re in need of a lowers service and lubrication. I have previously burnished the bushings of my Mezzer Expert and it helped quite a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

johnsogr said:


> I’ve read before this is a sign that you’re in need of a lowers service and lubrication. I have previously burnished the bushings of my Mezzer Expert and it helped quite a bit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This was just serviced actually, I've serviced it a couple times already it always does this no matter what

Anyone know where I can get bushings burnished in SoCal or how I can get my hands on the tool?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

I am 85 Kilo want to ein a 650b mezzer at 160mm travel.

Which oil to Use in the lowers For Winter riding and
Which measures besides initial greasing and burnishing of the bushings should I do?


----------



## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

tastik said:


> This was just serviced actually, I've serviced it a couple times already it always does this no matter what
> 
> Anyone know where I can get bushings burnished in SoCal or how I can get my hands on the tool?


Do those marks wipe away? I’m assuming not, and if they’re permanent, ya something is wrong. Otherwise, that’s normal oil from lowers doing it’s job.








Here’s mine after a ride. I wiped off oil markings on left of photo


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> I am 85 Kilo want to ein a 650b mezzer at 160mm travel.
> 
> Which oil to Use in the lowers For Winter riding and
> Which measures besides initial greasing and burnishing of the bushings should I do?


Supergliss 68K or The Manitou/Motorex 5W40 are great for winter riding.

Grease the IRT shaft and piston OD.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Supergliss 68K or The Manitou/Motorex 5W40 are great for winter riding.
> 
> Grease the IRT shaft and piston OD.


And besides Burnishing no shimming or overworking of the damper?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

and should I spacer the IRT travel with one of the 1 cm mattoc spacers that don´t consume volume if I travel the mezzer to 160mm?
So IRT minus 0,5 mm?


----------



## Twilight Error (Jan 12, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> and should I spacer the IRT travel with one of the 1 cm mattoc spacers that don´t consume volume if I travel the mezzer to 160mm?
> So IRT minus 0,5 mm?


No need to add any spacers to the IRT chamber, it works the same in every travel setting.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Twilight Error said:


> No need to add any spacers to the IRT chamber, it works the same in every travel setting.


But ideally less travel of Main Chambers would mean to adjust IRT travel as Well to Always get the Same Relation and spring curve. Is this Not that noticeable while riding?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Where can I get a burnishing tool for the 37mm stanchions?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

bansaiman said:


> But ideally less travel of Main Chambers would mean to adjust IRT travel as Well to Always get the Same Relation and spring curve. Is this Not that noticeable while riding?


It can become noticeable at much shorter travels. I spaced my IRT on my Magnum/Mattoc run at 120mm because the IRT dominated at the length. At 150 on my Mezzer, I have felt no need to do it.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Is this the correct Quad Ring? Add an "L" at the end



https://maydayseals.co.uk/quad-rings-/2873-q-214-nitrile-quad-ring.htm


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

bansaiman said:


> Is this the correct Quad Ring? Add an "L" at the end
> 
> 
> 
> https://maydayseals.co.uk/quad-rings-/2873-q-214-nitrile-quad-ring.htm



Bansaiman,I buy all my o-rings at this german page,they are hard to beat in stock and pricing.





__





IR Dichtungstechnik - IR Dichtungstechnik







www.ir-dichtungstechnik.de


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Mikel Knight said:


> Bansaiman,I buy all my o-rings at this german page,they are hard to beat in stock and pricing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks. 

Are they just spare parts or do they reduce friction in contrast to the originals?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> And besides Burnishing no shimming or overworking of the damper?


Just ride it.

Burnishing is for forks with sticky bushings. Reshimming the damper is for riders of different weights or those who want to change the feel of the damper.

Downsizing the air piston seal will make it bypass air at a less cold temperature than stock. If stock is good to -15C a downsized seal might only be good to -5C (test to confirm).


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

bansaiman said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Are they just spare parts or do they reduce friction in contrast to the originals?


They ship from europe,and you can choose between different material and hardness if you like to.

I personally use fkm/viton seals,that are superior in most situations compared to standard nbr seals.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Mikel Knight said:


> Bansaiman,I buy all my o-rings at this german page,they are hard to beat in stock and pricing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are they better than original in regards of friction


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I was of the impression that they are only better in that they are resistant to certain chemicals. I've never seen any info on friction or durability that made them better.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

FKM is about chemical resistance and heat (over 150C). There's nothing to be gained if you're not in one of those environments.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Fkm is more durable and resistant than NBR.
The only "real" benefit on this aplication would be durability.
Not a big deal anyway,but when I have to replace any seal I usually go with FKM.
So far so good.

I've been searching for O-rings with less friction and PTFE coated O-rings seem to be the winner,but are very hard to find.

I'm considering to start replacing every dynamic seal that has an O-ring(Mezzer's IRT) with an X-ring.

Question is,why manufacturers don't use X-rings on every dynamic seal?

Only disadvantage that I know about X-rings is that they are more expensive.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Mikel Knight said:


> Fkm is more durable and resistant than NBR.
> The only "real" benefit on this aplication would be durability.
> Not a big deal anyway,but when I have to replace any seal I usually go with FKM.
> So far so good.
> ...


Price could bei the only decisive Point. But oneumatic Deals would even be better. INTEND Use Them and put Air spring friction another Level down. I just do Not know If they exist For the sie of the mezzer Piston


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Ok I have a generic Rockshox/Manitou/Marzocchi shock pump but getting annoyed with the random neg chamber equalisation.
Tried screwing it fully home, just enough, remove it slowly, remove it fast but it’s completely random as to when it will equalise properly.
Tiring mentally pumping your forks up 20 times, especially when these are 1 psi sensitive to setup.
Is there a ‘best pump’ for these forks?
Cheers all


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

DG370 said:


> Ok I have a generic Rockshox/Manitou/Marzocchi shock pump but getting annoyed with the random neg chamber equalisation.
> Tried screwing it fully home, just enough, remove it slowly, remove it fast but it’s completely random as to when it will equalise properly.
> Tiring mentally pumping your forks up 20 times, especially when these are 1 psi sensitive to setup.
> Is there a ‘best pump’ for these forks?
> Cheers all


Is the seal in the chuck worn out? Cane Creek sell replacement hoses.

These forks aren't 1psi sensitive. I adjust in 5psi increments. If you're having to adjust really fine it means you're on the far edge of a good setup instead of being in the middle of a good setup.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Thanks, so you mean the hose to pump pivot point or the end of hose attachment?

I think it feels that sensitive atm because the neg pressure is so inconsistent


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

I mean there’s no leak sounds when using the pump even when not screwed fully home


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

DG370 said:


> Ok I have a generic Rockshox/Manitou/Marzocchi shock pump but getting annoyed with the random neg chamber equalisation.
> Tried screwing it fully home, just enough, remove it slowly, remove it fast but it’s completely random as to when it will equalise properly.
> Tiring mentally pumping your forks up 20 times, especially when these are 1 psi sensitive to setup.
> Is there a ‘best pump’ for these forks?
> Cheers all


I'm having the same issue.
I can pressurize the negative air chamber indepently from the positive of I don't screw the pump all the way in.
When I remove the pump air escapes only from the negative chamber.

Everytime I screw the pump back in I can first see the negative chamber pressure( about 35psi),and than the positive chamber pressure(about 50 psi).
The fork feels pretty harsh and I think this could be the reason.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

torcha said:


> I did the homework on this topic, found this. It is negative chamber which opens first when you connect the pump, the positive port opens bit later , like 1,5 revolution of the pump valve thread. And yes I was able to use this gap to set different negative and positive pressure with accuracy and repetition.(having digital zero leak pump). Had quick ride with negative plus 2psi and I would say I felt aditional softness. I think more difference would be visible as sucking of travel, so this is no big playground here , just little tweak.
> But I realized something important what may affect anyone here and perhaps explain people complaining about Mezzer suddenly became harsh when it felt good before. It may easily happen that when you disconnect the pump , you are not fast enough to prevent leak, quite normal but because the chambers do not disconnect at same moment , the leak happens only to negative chamber and because it is quite small , even little leak could mean few psi down against positive chamber and here you have bit of a numb fork at the beginning of the travel. So be real fast upon disconnecting or get zero leak pump



Props to Torcha!
I think this info should be on the first page of this owners thread.
Unless you have a zero leak pump you will run always into this issue which ruins the fork small bump sensitivity.
You may loose time messing with compression,IRT,etc to get the fork to feel right,when the issue is this difference in pressure of the main chambers.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Ditto

If you screw the pump back on and are seeing 35 in the neg I think that’s correct for 50 main.

It’s when it’s 20 or less the fork feels like a pogo stick!

Your harsh feeling may be something damper or friction related.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

DG370 said:


> Thanks, so you mean the hose to pump pivot point or the end of hose attachment?
> 
> I think it feels that sensitive atm because the neg pressure is so inconsistent


The hose to valve seals do wear out. We get probably a year max from them in a workshop situation.

The way to check if negative is sealing is to see if you can take the pump off at less travel and see if the fork stays there.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

DG370 said:


> Ditto
> 
> If you screw the pump back on and are seeing 35 in the neg I think that’s correct for 50 main.
> 
> ...



The pressure in positive and negative chambers should be the same.
If you have less pressure in the negative you will need more force to overcome that pressure difference,which translates to poor small bump sensitivity.

I recently did the 12mm compression shim mod,bled the damper with motorex 2,5w oil and running supergliss 100k in the lowers and few ml in the main and IRT chambers.


It's 100% the air spring.
After doing the normal procedure to air up the main chambers,I reatached the pump and screwed it back in until the negative chamber opened and pumped it up a bit more to compensate that pressure loss when removing the pump.
What a difference!

I've been experimenting a lot with pressures and it always felt inconsistent.
I think this was because of the pressure loss of the negative chamber that is sometimes more,sometimes less.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mikel Knight said:


> Fkm is more durable and resistant than NBR.
> The only "real" benefit on this aplication would be durability.
> Not a big deal anyway,but when I have to replace any seal I usually go with FKM.
> So far so good.
> ...


X-rings (quad rings) have more stiction and get torn more often on assembly (catching lips). Their main use is when you have the risk of an o-ring rolling in it's groove and destroying itself with spiral fracture. I had a perfect example of this like 5 years ago but threw it out expecting it to be a common find. I haven't seen another one since!

There are many places I will change a quad for an o-ring to get a better result. More expensive does not mean better.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

DG370 said:


> Ok I have a generic Rockshox/Manitou/Marzocchi shock pump but getting annoyed with the random neg chamber equalisation.
> Tried screwing it fully home, just enough, remove it slowly, remove it fast but it’s completely random as to when it will equalise properly.
> Tiring mentally pumping your forks up 20 times, especially when these are 1 psi sensitive to setup.
> Is there a ‘best pump’ for these forks?
> Cheers all


Firstly has your pump got a dual stage head? This fork would be very hard if not virtually impossible to get the + and - air springs balanced with a one piece head.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Mikel Knight said:


> Unless you have a zero leak pump you will run always into this issue which ruins the fork small bump sensitivity.


Does a Giyo pump qualify as zero leak?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I finally got the Mezzer configurable service kit up: Fork Service Kit for Manitou Mezzer 2020+ Forks | Shockcraft

Everything is optional, from buying just a single valve core to o-ring kit, wipers, oil, tools and Expert upgrades.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

DG370 said:


> Ok I have a generic Rockshox/Manitou/Marzocchi shock pump but getting annoyed with the random neg chamber equalisation.
> Tried screwing it fully home, just enough, remove it slowly, remove it fast but it’s completely random as to when it will equalise properly.
> Tiring mentally pumping your forks up 20 times, especially when these are 1 psi sensitive to setup.
> Is there a ‘best pump’ for these forks?
> Cheers all


I've been keeping my eye out for a good accurate digital shock pump for the mezzer as well. Haven't found one yet.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Dougal said:


> I finally got the Mezzer configurable service kit up: Fork Service Kit for Manitou Mezzer 2020+ Forks | Shockcraft
> 
> Everything is optional, from buying just a single valve core to o-ring kit, wipers, oil, tools and Expert upgrades.


Good stuff. Ordered some today. Easy to use, to select what you want just tick or untick what you want or don‘t want on the list then add it to your cart and it all goes in together. You don‘t have to add each item to your cart individually. Makes the process quick and simple.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nmxtrdr said:


> Does a Giyo pump qualify as zero leak?


Yes. Because it seals against the valve stem before depressing the core. On removal it releases the valve core before breaking the seal.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Mikel Knight said:


> Props to Torcha!
> I think this info should be on the first page of this owners thread.
> Unless you have a zero leak pump you will run always into this issue which ruins the fork small bump sensitivity.
> You may loose time messing with compression,IRT,etc to get the fork to feel right,when the issue is this difference in pressure of the main chambers.


I disagree, my pump is normal "leaky" type, but if you look inside, the seal actually engages before the actuator presses down on the poppet valve, that's why proper poppet extension is crucial here.
Sure, a "no leak" type makes things easier, aspecially in terms of pre pressurizing the hose to discount the pressure drop from filling it, but it's not necessary per se.

I assumed by zero leak you mean the two stage type.

ps. I'm building myself a "perfect" pump, SKS MSP (because it's well built and spares are avaible, unlike for Giyo, which I had a hose burst, good luck fixing this) but in place of the terrible factory gauge, I'm putting a mini female pneumatic quick connect, with a corresponding małe one on a gauge, will have 2 gauges- one 100psi max with good accuracy for the Mezzer and one up to 300psi for the shock etc. the only disadvantage having to carry 2 gauges with you, but they take up less space this way, so I'm not concerned. Digital is an option, but I don't like batteries in this type of tools.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

So what are the compatible pumps?

And what is the correct poppet protrusion?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Afaik there are only 2 kinds on the market, Giyo which are generally good, both the 2 stage and single stage connectors, and others, which are generally 2 stage so good also. The answer being, don't worry about it.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

I do worry about it because I cannot get consistent pressures!


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Not sure what is the spec on the Mezzer, but on the mattoc it was supposed to be sticking out 1-1.5mm, what do you mean by inconsistent pressures?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

piciu256 said:


> I disagree, my pump is normal "leaky" type, but if you look inside, the seal actually engages before the actuator presses down on the poppet valve, that's why proper poppet extension is crucial here.
> Sure, a "no leak" type makes things easier, aspecially in terms of pre pressurizing the hose to discount the pressure drop from filling it, but it's not necessary per se.
> 
> I assumed by zero leak you mean the two stage type.
> ...


It's very simple,the air chambers need to have EQUAL pressures in positive and negative. (usually done with equalisation ports)

Everytime you unthread the pump air escapes ONLY from the negative chamber,leaving your air spring unbalanced/not equalized.

Maybe you don't have this issue with your pump or fork,but I'm definately having this problem with my fork and rockshox shock pump (the 600 max psi model) and I bet there are a lot more people out there with the same issue without knowing.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

How are you so sure the pressure escapes only from the neg chamber, how are you sure pressure escapes from either chamber when disconnecting the pump in the first place?
Do the test Douglas mentioned- disconnect the pump slowly with the fork equalised higher up in the travel, if the fork extends rapidly as you do this, that means you indeed have a leak.
ps. your rock shox pump is made by Giyo, so should work just as well as mine does.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

piciu256 said:


> How are you so sure the pressure escapes only from the neg chamber, how are you sure pressure escapes from either chamber when disconnecting the pump in the first place?
> Do the test Douglas mentioned- disconnect the pump slowly with the fork equalised higher up in the travel, if the fork extends rapidly as you do this, that means you indeed have a leak.



-Because when you thread the pump in a bit,you can independently pump up the negative air chamber(the fork will try to suck in at certain point) and if tou thread it more in it engages the positive.

-when you start unthreading the pump the positive chamber closes first.
The last threads is when the negative air chamber closes which is when the air escapes.(Like on any other fork,but on this design it looses pressure only from one chamber)

-I can measure the difference with the pump.

-I can feel the difference


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

The air escaping is not from the chamber, it's escaping from the hose dude, do the test mentioned above I tell you.
You can confirm it's just the hose by pressurizing it to the pressure that's supposed to be in the fork before screwing the hose completely on (before the valve opens), you'll see the same pressure that was there do begin with, otherwise you're losing pressure to refill the hose with air.
Ps. with your 600 psi pump one could argue the difference between fills comes from the inacutacy of your gauge, judging by the pictures online you can barely distinguish in 10 psi increments, I wouldn't be surprised if you're seeing 5psi variance and not realised it. With this fork I reckon it's quite a lot, with the large surface area of the piston.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

I'm aware of the pressure loss of the hose,but this this not the case.
Like I said,I can measure and feel the difference.
The problem isn't a leak between positive and negative either.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Again, do the test, stop assuming, you wouldn't be able te tell such small differences with your 600psi pump in any case, I don't see any variance with my 300 psi one either, maybe I will once I have one scaled in 1 psi increments.
Its good you know about the hose loss, but you still haven't isolated anything out, untill you do, it's all assumptions, not facts.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Chill,I'm not teaching anybody,just sharing my experience and thoughts about this fork.
I already did the test.Negative.
I am able to feel the difference and you are able too if you try.
I use a 600psi pump for pumping it up,but I have a digital manometer to read the pressure.
Anyway you can see the difference in the 600psi pump.
You are assuming too,so take it easy.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I'm not agitated, just curious, but you insist you are certain of your theory without conducting any tests to confirm 🤷‍♂️
Whatever.


----------



## Mrwhlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Legit fork. Also, a $.02 o-ring stacked onto my pump's original fixed any leaking a loooong time ago.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mikel Knight said:


> I'm aware of the pressure loss of the hose,but this this not the case.
> Like I said,I can measure and feel the difference.
> The problem isn't a leak between positive and negative either.


If you are leaking negative on disconnect then you won't be able to lock the fork at less than full travel. It's an easy test to do.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

DG370 said:


> So what are the compatible pumps?
> 
> And what is the correct poppet protrusion?


You can't adjust poppet protrusion on the Mezzer, it's fixed. Mattoc and 36mm Dorado you could. Spec was 1mm but I use 1.3mm.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Thanks, I got another pump coming to rule it out.
My shock pumps are pretty old, but never been a problem as yet with the Mezzer.
Looking forward to doing some proper testing once I know I’m getting consistent pressures.


----------



## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

I really want a short 29”Mezzer (120-130mm), has anyone taken one lower than 140?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Abunchahicks said:


> I really want a short 29”Mezzer (120-130mm), has anyone taken one lower than 140?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> ...


----------



## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

So I guess I need a Pike? so what’s comparable? I love my 140 Mezzer on the FS and want something like it for an upcoming HT build, is the Mattoc an equivalent little brother? Nobody really talks about it, it weights the same as the Mezzer and I’ve never seen it available in 29. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Abunchahicks said:


> So I guess I need a Pike? so what’s comparable? I love my 140 Mezzer on the FS and want something like it for an upcoming HT build, is the Mattoc an equivalent little brother? Nobody really talks about it, it weights the same as the Mezzer and I’ve never seen it available in 29.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think that’s the case. I’m not up to speed on the Mattoc. Dougal will probably be the best person to answer all your questions on the Mattoc. I get your love for the Mezzer but short of pulling out a hacksaw and welder what you want to do isn’t possible.


----------



## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

OzIbis said:


> I think that’s the case. I’m not up to speed on the Mattoc. Dougal will probably be the best person to answer all your questions on the Mattoc. I get your love for the Mezzer but short of pulling out a hacksaw and welder what you want to do isn’t possible.


What would you have to cut and weld? It’ll go all the way down to 0 travel. I’m guessing spring pressures would be too high at my weight and the damper would be ****. After some reading I believe an updated Mattoc is expected, but no word on when. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Abunchahicks said:


> What would you have to cut and weld? It’ll go all the way down to 0 travel. I’m guessing spring pressures would be too high at my weight and the damper would be ****. After some reading I believe an updated Mattoc is expected, but no word on when.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


140mm is the minimum listed travel for the Mezzer as you probably already know. I was exaggerating a tad when mentioned the hacksaw and welder. I wasn’t meaning literally. I suppose you could reduce the travel down using air pressures but that doesn’t really mean it’s a true 120mm travel fork. I can’t fathom how it could work properly set like that. You never know give it try I could be way off. I can’t see it feeling good though.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

OzIbis said:


> 140mm is the minimum listed travel for the Mezzer as you probably already know. I was exaggerating a tad when mentioned the hacksaw and welder. I wasn’t meaning literally. I suppose you could reduce the travel down using air pressures but that doesn’t really mean it’s a true 120mm travel fork. I can’t fathom how it could work properly set like that. You never know give it try I could be way off. I can’t see it feeling good though.


Dude you literally replied without any idea.
It could be reduced all the way down to 0 if you wanted to, you just need so many spacers to do so.
Yes the spring balance is thrown off, both the IRT and the negative chamber a little, it's been done (search in the thread) but needs shimming the IRT and I guess with heavier riders air pressure might become an issue, since less travel inherently means more pressure, but I don't think 130 is enough difference to really matter much, on that note why not have it set @140?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

GIYO High Pressure Shock Pump, (300 PSI Max) for Fork & Rear Suspension, Lever Lock on Nozzle No Air Loss https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074DBPMDK/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_6Z7BGGTRE3XF5VM6CRPJ

FWIW, that hose goes right on a Cane Creek Digital pump... Or any other digital Giyo based pump...

Just saying, if you are sick of questionable pressures...
I think I paid close to $15 for it after shopping around. Then again, I bought it 2.5 years ago when things were cheaper... But it's still working well.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

They go for around 20-30$ these days, still a good enough pump, the issue though is the mentioned hose, it's not avaible as a spare item and obviously can burst, sure the pump is not very expensive, but it just feels wasteful.
I bought a SKS suspension pump to replace my Giyo for that reason, generally better quality, at this point just a bit more expensive and spares are avaible, however, this one needs a pressure gauge swap as the mini 300 psi one is abismal (could use digital if you wanted I guess)


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Seems like a "replacement hose" is about $25? Cheaper then the "no loss" fittings...

Again, I've had it for 2.5 years. It lives in my back pack, covered in dirt and tossed around every ride.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I've had mine for a year in a warm clean environment, but took it close to the limit at 300psi often enough (rear shock service), it burst on me.
I know Cane Creek sells one for 25$, but it's no help if that's how much the whole pump goes for... SKS has a braided hose with all metal fittings (as opposed to plastic on the Giyo stuff) for 8€.

Its good enough and was acceptable when they were cheap, the main issue right now for me is with the price increases, better quality option is no longer much more expensive, so I see no point going with them, aspecially if one breaks on you eventually (they sure will, no matter what, rubber ages)


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

piciu256 said:


> Dude you literally replied without any idea.
> It could be reduced all the way down to 0 if you wanted to, you just need so many spacers to do so.
> Yes the spring balance is thrown off, both the IRT and the negative chamber a little, it's been done (search in the thread) but needs shimming the IRT and I guess with heavier riders air pressure might become an issue, since less travel inherently means more pressure, but I don't think 130 is enough difference to really matter much, on that note why not have it set @140?


So in stating that the minimum listed travel for the Mezzer is 140mm is posting with no idea. HUH. You tell me what the minimum listed travel is that Manitou states then. I probably shouldn’t have said in my original comment that what he wanted to do isn’t possible because anything is “possible” but just because you can doesn’t mean you should. I could have phrased my post better in hindsight but my intention was to get across that I don’t believe what he is trying to do is the right way to go and I don’t think it’s possible to get a good result. If the Mezzer was the right fork for all situations at any travel below 180mm then Manitou would only make one fork. It would be much cheaper for them. I was trying to stop the guy from going down a path that IMO won’t work and clearly Manitou doesn’t think it will either or else they wouldn’t set a minimum travel for it. Clearly something doesn’t work the way they intended below 140mm. 
I did say I could be way off but I still doubt it will work very well and feel how it can and should and I still stand by that opinion.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

You literally clip on plastic spacers to reduce travel, there is nothing to damage here, even if the operation wouldn't be ideal for one reason or another, it's nothing to be afraid of. Going outside of listed parameters is sort of synonymous with tinkering, so one trying something like this shouldn't be afraid of playing around, but there is nothing inherently wrong with doing so.
You said something about going at it with a hacksaw, so you didn't seem to know how reducing travel is achieved in this fork, all in all we shouldn't even be having this conversation 😅


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

piciu256 said:


> You literally clip on plastic spacers to reduce travel, there is nothing to damage here, even if the operation wouldn't be ideal for one reason or another, it's nothing to be afraid of. Going outside of listed parameters is sort of synonymous with tinkering, so one trying something like this shouldn't be afraid of playing around, but there is nothing inherently wrong with doing so.
> You said something about going at it with a hacksaw, so you didn't seem to know how reducing travel is achieved in this fork, all in all we shouldn't even be having this conversation 😅


I know you use spacers to reduce the travel. I’ve been inside the fork more times than I care to mention. I’m not making judgements calls on what you do or don’t know but clearly you are and stating we shouldn’t even be having this conversation tells me you think this is all beyond you. I can assure you I’ve done more tuning and tinkering than most but have never claimed to be an authority. I also don’t feel the need to justify my opinion because that is what the forums are about. Again I was just trying to give another forum user my opinion on a question he asked and again I 100% stand by that opinion. 
But honestly you can’t possibly think I was serious about using a hacksaw and a welder. I was taking the piss. You need to see the lighter side of life a bit dood.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

OzIbis said:


> I get your love for the Mezzer but short of pulling out a hacksaw and welder what you want to do isn’t possible.


Stop trying to bullshit me dude, in what world could this statement be considered a joke?


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

piciu256 said:


> Stop trying to bullshit me dude, in what world could this statement be considered a joke?


I stated that in hindsight I should have phrased my first post differently except for the part about the hacksaw and welder because choose to believe it or not it wasn’t a serious comment where I was trying to get someone cut pieces off their fork, I WAS TAKING THE PISS, but clearly you’re a fan of stirring the pot and see yourself as some sort of authority on the world including what people can consider humorous. I feel sorry for you. I’m moving on from this hopefully you do the same. Feel free to not read any of my future posts because trust me they aren’t intended for you. In fact they never were you just decided to bring your jovial happy go lucky self into it. 
Enjoy your riding and try to smile a little.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

piciu256 said:


> Stop trying to bullshit me dude, in what world could this statement be considered a joke?


You’ve not met any British, that kind of statement is made hourly 😉


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

New pump arrived today;
Lifeline shock pump

Adjustments are perfect every time now, think it was just old age pump syndrome 👍
Cheers all!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

DG370 said:


> You’ve not met any British, that kind of statement is made hourly 😉


Then you've got Aussies!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

piciu256 said:


> I've had mine for a year in a warm clean environment, but took it close to the limit at 300psi often enough (rear shock service), it burst on me.
> I know Cane Creek sells one for 25$, but it's no help if that's how much the whole pump goes for... SKS has a braided hose with all metal fittings (as opposed to plastic on the Giyo stuff) for 8€.
> 
> Its good enough and was acceptable when they were cheap, the main issue right now for me is with the price increases, better quality option is no longer much more expensive, so I see no point going with them, aspecially if one breaks on you eventually (they sure will, no matter what, rubber ages)


The stock GIYO hoses get eaten by oil. So oil mist from air-cans blows back into the hose, softens and weakens the rubber.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

what do you think of the new Boundary 1.0SH Shock Pump?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Are there spare parts avaible? If so then good, if not, then it better be cheap imo, it's a lottery if it lasts or not.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Has anyone got back to back info on air spring quality Mezzer VS RXF 36 M2?

Just wondering if anyone has any feedback regarding suppleness, break away force, mid stroke support and stiction?

I hands down reckon the Manitou air spring is the best out there, but not had a play on the Ohlins air.

My Mezzer with the 214 quad ring is the closest to coil I have experienced.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I'm about to start using an RFX M2 and will be able to provide some feedback in a week or so/couple of rides.

I had the RFX EVO and it was really good, pretty Mezzer like honestly so I would expect the M2 to be similar with better small bump.

For me the interest is being able to go back and forth to coil like a Formula Selva can do and that has been handy to be able to change it up for weight/sensitivity from one bike to the next.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Hi SilentG that would be great to hear your thoughts.

Have you done any work inside your Mezzer?
I ask as I ran a stock pair of 2019 Mezzers when they first came out and the sensitivity was lacking and the HSC harsh.
Fast forward to now with a 2021 pair and internal mods they are a whole different beast, I wonder if they are equal to the latest M.2s.

I know the RXF EVO and even the early M.2s where over damped too, Ohlins have dropped 2 stages lower for the 2022 base tune based on experience/feedback.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Just oil changes and I have had an original Mezzer and the one I have now is burnished.

Went out for a ride this afternoon with the M2 and I would put the small bump as best M2 then Mezzer burnished then Mezzer non-burnished.

Mezzer burnished isn't far off for small bump compared to M2 and the M2 feels like a Mezzer in many ways but smoother is how I would categorize it.

The M2 is easier to setup/dial-in than a Mezzer, plenty stiff for my 185 pounds/84 kg, fork weight on my unofficial scale with 188mm steerer was within 30-50g of each other (Mezzer had some mud on it which pushed it up slightly).

I rode the same trail today that I rode a week ago with the same bike each time (Revel Rail 27.5, Fast Fenix EVO shock, same tires, etc). A week ago was the Mezzer up front and today was the Ohlins.

This trail has a good variety of rocks (lots of rocks since this is Arizona - big, small, ledges, piles of rocks), climbing, twisty/steery stuff, and the weather was pretty similar between the two rides. The GPS says I was faster today than last week but some of that would be knocking off rust from weather keeping me from riding as much as usual here in Arizona.

M2 - 185 psi in ramp, 105 psi in main, Rebound -8, LSC -6, HSC 0 (ramp and PSI are 10 psi lower than Ohlins online advisor but still in range for my weight)
Mezzer burnished - 72 psi IRT, 51 lower psi, Rebound -5, LSC -6, HSC -3
The damping on the EVO and M2 are on the firmer side but not excessive where the fork feels wooden or vague and that firmness doesn't translate to harshness or like you get stuck or shortchanged when things start to get hectic.

During the ride on the M2 I added a couple clicks of LSC and played around with adding 1 and 2 clicks of HSC and that didn't dramatically change the feel of the M2 and definitely not in a negative way as the M2 felt balanced and responsive. 

Always calm and never overwhelmed.

The Mezzer feels dynamic when riding it where the M2 has a very calm disposition and keeps that feeling. That could also be me riding the Mezzer more and the stiff/responsive feel it has definitely makes you feel like it has your back so maybe I'm willing to turn the Mezzer loose and whatever happens happens.

The M2 never felt like it doesn't have your back, it just has a way of going about its business in a different way which I happen to dig based on riding the EVO and now the M2.

I'm more aware of the Mezzer by feel when I'm riding with it vs the M2 and even the EVO was like that where you kind of forget about it until you come back to the same section of trail on another fork and are like 'this feels different, what's up with that'.

Neither fork would be hard in my opinion to match with various air or coil shocks, pretty easy to adjust either so the bike feels/stays balanced, maybe a bit easier on the M2 as it is less sensitive to air pressure and I guess you would give up some tunability there compared to a Mezzer so that is the trade-off.

Mezzer will be going on a Banshee Rune next and I will be running a deathmatch to decide if I'm going to send the Mezzer or a Formula Selva currently on that frame down the road as I have an extra fork at the moment.

Selva is excellent, can do coil or air, lots of options though between air pressure, two types of air spring, coil as an option, multiple CTS modules available, and Neopos as a wildcard on the air side...can be a little bit tricky to dial in and is more of a tinkering type of fork because it has so many options and exercising those options definitely changes how the fork feels.

Maybe I don't need that many options which I think would be the argument for the M2 over the Mezzer even - it (M2) is easier to just setup and go ride but at some level you do give up some tinkering options there which some people wouldn't want to give up.

If someone walked in and told me I could have just one bike and they gave me a box with a Mezzer in it for the fork I would be really happy and wouldn't complain. 

If that box, based on what I'm seeing with the M2 so far, contained an M2 I would just a bit happier than with the Mezzer.

Neither would be a sad face choice - supportive, stiff, and very confidence inspiring - just my preference based on what I like and the M2 can go coil which is handy as an option.

They are both excellent forks and preferable in my book to a 36 or Lyrik so it might come down to personal preference in feel, cost, availability, you can do work on the Mezzer yourself although the damper part looks a bit tricky but might be something the reads as more complicated than it actually is to do it, Ohlins can be sent off for tuning at a service center, pick your poison kind of deal at this point and I don't think you could go wrong with either.

I haven't had much time on a Lyrik in the past couple of years and the one I did was an HC97 version...have run a couple of Fox 36 iterations and the most recent had the Grip2 VVC and it was good but I think the package that a Mezzer or M2 brings to the party is pretty hard and if in that one bike fork box scenario deal if the choice was one box with Mezzer or one with M2 and the other box had the 36 I would always pick the Mezzer or M2 over the 36 and if it was Mezzer vs M2 I would pick the M2 each time but that second choice is like choosing between two chocolate deserts - no wrong choice there, just preference and weighing different factors that might end up at Mezzer for one person and M2 for the other.

Apologies for the wall of text, hard to characterize something in words that is a visceral experience and have it make any sense and/or be useful.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

No experience with the Ohlins, but on paper it should be pretty close to the Mezzer, minus HBO, either way both great forks.
Had a first ride on some proper trails on my Mezzer, and I have to say, while the Mattoc was much better than a pike, the Mezzer is almost as much better than my Mattoc was, so I guess totally different league than a Lyric, I cannot imagine anyone liking alyric over a Mezzer really.
I don't know if it's the 170mm travel vs 150, the reduced friction, different air spring balance, a bit softer damper tune (removed one of the comp shims) or all things combines, but while my Mattoc always felt pretty good, it never made big rocks and holes disappear, it almost felt like hanging up slightly, the Mezzer just eats this stuff up like there is no tomorrow, plus makes small chatter completely disappear, while my Mattoc was almost harsh on this kind of bumps (definitely caused by friction), aspecially under heavy braking the Mezzer is much smoother.
All in all I'm very happy with my fork, can't wait to try it with a matching amount of travel out back 😁


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Thanks for taking the effort to describe the differences, I know it’s difficult and different riders, terrain and setup are all going cause variations.

I find it interesting as I feel the M2 and Mezzer are exceptionally close.

I think if you ran the softer HSC stack (rider weight relative) and a 214 seal in the Mezzer the small bump / sensitivity could actually be identical.
I found the factory quad ring seal on the main air piston to really bind the fork up on initial breakaway and small transient movements.

The shim change on the Mezzer is pretty straight forward for the home tech with the right tools.

This I feel is a big bonus for the Mezzer VS M2, the ability to easily service the entire fork at home.

At this point I think the limitations/differences are purely in the damper design, the TTX18 in the M2 is a very efficient and frugal damper IME, never using more travel than is necessary.
It’s is the one aspect of the Mezzer that I’m not 100% sure the damper is equally as efficient, it may well be but I cannot perceive it.

You are definitely not the first person to say the M2 is easier to get the air spring tuned vs the Mezzer, but is limited in the spring setup ‘options’ because of it.

I haven’t ridden the latest gen F36, DVO or EXT, I think (from research only I must say) that DVO may be on the level, but the EXT is the only fork to level up from the Mezzer or M2.


----------



## MiKo84 (11 mo ago)

I’m experiencing some difficulties with my new Mezzer, but I can’t quite figure out the problem. Hopefully this forum can shed some light!

I used a mezzer pro for a new bike build. I changed the travel to 170mm, greased all the seals and put new oil in de lowers before I installed the fork. 
The problem I have is that there is a very noticable clicking sound (somewhere between clicking, ticking and creaking) and for/aft play (like a loose headset). This is the most apparent when to underground in chucky (like roots and rocks). 

When I just compress the fork in the garage, it performs well. When I compress the fork a little en rock the bike fowards and backwards I can produce the sound and feel the play. 

Ofcourse I checked the headset, the brakes, the pads, the axle, the bolts and the brakelines, but these are all fine. I took the fork out of the bike and I could still reproduce the sound and the play. I can feel the play on the wiperseals. I don’t think its the SCU, that feels solid. It “feels” as something inside the fork. So I took the fork apart again to see if I make a mistake in the rebuild of the fork, but as far as I can tell, everything looks fine. 

I did notice there is play in the dampershaft (the grey shaft that go’s into the bronze middlepart is a bit loose and makes a ticking sound when I gently wobble it from side to side). But I don’t think this is abnormal since the topcap and the footbolt secure the damper when it‘s in the fork.
Furthermore I discovered I used the wrong oil. I bought the wrong Motorex 5w40. I have the fully synthetic engine oil, not the 4T 5/40. I need to change that, but I don’t think this has anything to do with the problem I’m experiencing. 

Last but not least, I’m pretty sure I have the new lowers. The ones with the bleedscrews and the seperate stickers. The production date is March 21. It does not have a green dot on the box (which I read about in this forum).

I know it‘s difficult to pinpoint the problem and present a solution based on just this description, but all imput is welcom! Hopefully I can get it fixed and enjoy my mezzer!


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Has your headset needed tightening?


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I did some research on the 214 quad seal in the this thread pile and I will make a note to replace the stock air spring seal with one.

Will see if I can dig up the HSC shim stack adjustment in this mega thread...

I'm lucky enough to have an updated DVO Onyx and it is really plush...like bottomless plush feeling. Different type of ride than Mezzer/M2 but in the same neighborhood as a package so far.



DG370 said:


> Thanks for taking the effort to describe the differences, I know it’s difficult and different riders, terrain and setup are all going cause variations.
> 
> I find it interesting as I feel the M2 and Mezzer are exceptionally close.
> 
> ...


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

For anyone else looking for this - Manitou Mezzer: Owners Thread [Setup & Tech] (first page of the thread) and that 214 ring for the air piston is Sur-Seal XP70BUN214 214 Quad Ring, Buna NBR, 70 D: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific for reference since this thread is active and info tends to get swallowed up as a result.




silentG said:


> I did some research on the 214 quad seal in the this thread pile and I will make a note to replace the stock air spring seal with one.
> 
> Will see if I can dig up the HSC shim stack adjustment in this mega thread...
> 
> I'm lucky enough to have an updated DVO Onyx and it is really plush...like bottomless plush feeling. Different type of ride than Mezzer/M2 but in the same neighborhood as a package so far.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

silentG said:


> I did some research on the 214 quad seal in the this thread pile and I will make a note to replace the stock air spring seal with one.
> 
> Will see if I can dig up the HSC shim stack adjustment in this mega thread...
> 
> I'm lucky enough to have an updated DVO Onyx and it is really plush...like bottomless plush feeling. Different type of ride than Mezzer/M2 but in the same neighborhood as a package so far.


If anyone needs some 214 seals just send me a pm, I have like 20 of them so I can mail one to anyone for like a dollar or two


----------



## MiKo84 (11 mo ago)

EatsDirt said:


> Has your headset needed tightening?


My first thought as well, but no, unfortunatelly that’s not the issue. The “flex” can be felt at the wiperseals, not the headset.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

MiKo84 said:


> My first thought as well, but no, unfortunatelly that’s not the issue. The “flex” can be felt at the wiperseals, not the headset.


I don't think the lowers would make the noise you describe while flexing/deflecting as they're coated in bath oil.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I agree, loose bushings don't make any noise, they just can be felt and when lose enough create a shaking sensation under braking.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

I recall it being discussed before in this or the other Mezzer thread, bit can't find it... Has anyone made some modifications on the damper to reduce friction, particularly the shaft seal? Last time I rebuild the damper it felt a bit sticky (not that it probably matters, but upgraditis has struck, again). Would replacing the o-ring with a quad ring improve anything, and if so, has anyone done it?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I wouldn't worry about the damper, the friction there is as low as it can get, a single lip loosely fitting seal and loose tolerances in general. If anything to be gained, it's on the air spring side.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Two_bricks said:


> I recall it being discussed before in this or the other Mezzer thread, bit can't find it... Has anyone made some modifications on the damper to reduce friction, particularly the shaft seal? Last time I rebuild the damper it felt a bit sticky (not that it probably matters, but upgraditis has struck, again). Would replacing the o-ring with a quad ring improve anything, and if so, has anyone done it?


I noticed the same while servicing mine,a lot more stiction than my old grip2 damper.

I think that the main reason is that the shaft when cycled by hand will never be perfectly straight,causing most of the stiction/friction.

Once atached to the lowers it should be "straight" and work with less friction,but anyway I would say it's not impressive.

I thought about replacing this o-ring with an X-ring too.(size 110?)
I'm going to replace the IRT O-rings with X-rings.
I also will buy a a smaller sized seal(size 121)to see if it's possible to reduce friction on the IRT like with the main chambers.
Let's see how it goes.


----------



## MiKo84 (11 mo ago)

piciu256 said:


> I agree, loose bushings don't make any noise, they just can be felt and when lose enough create a shaking sensation under braking.


I also think the chance of loose bushings in a new fork (especially with the new lowers) should be very low. But something weird is going on, and i can’t figure out what. 
I know i’m a sound sensitive guy when it comes to my bikes. They need to be (mostly) silent. But even more important is the play i feel on the trails. When it gets steep (especially after a big compression after a steep part), the fork feels sketchy. I’m convinced it’s not right. 
I was kind of hoping for a -smack against the forehead mistake- in reducing the travel / rebuilding the fork or a “the manual doesn’t tell you to torque up that one bolt, but you should” kind of thing. But if it turns out that it remains a weird and vague issue, I will ask Manitou to check the fork. It’s a new fork, so it should just work out of the box.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I can tell you that if you feel and or see side to side movement at the wiper seals, the bushings are way too loose, they could rattle if bad enough. While the chance is low, aspecially with the updated lowers, it's still not zero, Mt fork had to go back 2 times before the issue was resolved, now it's a little tight on the other hand, but this I can resolve myself and am not in a hurry.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> I wouldn't worry about the damper, the friction there is as low as it can get, a single lip loosely fitting seal and loose tolerances in general. If anything to be gained, it's on the air spring side.


True, relative to the air spring it's a marginal gain, if any. Just looking for yet another reason to tinker with the fork since all the low hanging fruits to reduce friction are already done.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm continuing to experiment with spring and damper tuning.
I've reduced compression down to between my old tune (Dougal1) and the stock tune with a single 17.5mm shim in it. This (along with a new rebound tune and the first service in a year) has the fork feeling very different. I call this tune "Dougal3" and it's the first dyno tune of my current fork. I've been tuning everyone elses stuff and riding a tune I calculated out in 2019 for a previous bike.

For the first time I've felt a bottom-out, instead of using full travel without feeling it, and looking at upping IRT pressure. I was running 40/60psi at 170mm. It's time for more.

The reason for the retune was my current bike (which I've had for a year and a half) is longer and weights the front less. I've also recently got my rear shock sorted and running it firmer which changes how the fork feels.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Can you clarify what each “dougal 1, 2, 3” entails?

I know you weigh next to nothing, but it will be interesting to hear what you feel the damper is like so lightly tuned/shimmed.


----------



## Thediesel233 (10 mo ago)

Long time lurker here.. just made an account. I want to thank all the suspension gurus on here. It's very helpful to those of us who are learning about these awesome forks. 

The IRT calculator on the first page is pretty awesome!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

DG370 said:


> Can you clarify what each “dougal 1, 2, 3” entails?
> 
> I know you weigh next to nothing, but it will be interesting to hear what you feel the damper is like so lightly tuned/shimmed.


It's just the progression of my own tuning scheme.
Dougal1 was the 12mm shim swap. Compression is then 20,17.5,12,11mm. I polished the rebound piston flat, installed a flat rebound stack and a Dorado midvalve spring.
Dougal2 can't remember exactly, it's on a tuning sheet at work. Didn't get ridden.
Dougal3 is compression a little softer again, gone back to a standard, slightly dished, rebound piston and a flat stack to get a more linear rebound curve. It has more low speed rebound than stock and softer compression.

I need to up IRT pressure to work better with my current tune. Overall I'm very happy with it.
I'm nearing 80kg with a loaded camelbak and riding gear.


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Where can I find a CSA? Been on the "notify me" list for 6 months. Tried to order through the local bike shop, but no one ever got back to me.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Penny said:


> Where can I find a CSA? Been on the "notify me" list for 6 months. Tried to order through the local bike shop, but no one ever got back to me.


Been waiting for my 2nd warranty replacement CSA since fall (horrid creaking). Only thing I am not happy with concerning the Mezzer. Hopefully it’s taking so long due to a permanent solution for the creaking.

So to answer your question, I doubt they are available anywhere at present.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Received my o-ring kit from Shockcraft today. There is a heap of o-rings in the kit all in one snap lock bag which could be very tedious to sort out which one is which but included with the order was a piece of paper with all the o-rings listed with a full size picture and a description of where the o-ring goes.
EXCELLENT work. Very good idea to include that to streamline the installation process and save a lot of frustration and headaches sorting what is what.
BIG 👍


----------



## DGuerra (Apr 17, 2016)

Hi, I'm looking for feedback on the issue of air pressure transfer from the high pressure to the low pressure chamber. It seems like a system flaw that not everyone takes notice of. The IRT piston's seal is insufficient to maintain a pressure differential of 30 psi or so. I find that both chambers quickly equalize pressure between them. Now, the concept might still work because both chambers will compress at different rates due to having different volumes, but I wish the IRT piston had a double (or even triple) seal that would be able to maintain the pressure differential from one day to the next.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Mine is holding fine for a month now, did 3000m vertical of descending in that time.
Your seal is most likely damaged, maybe from a lack of grease, did you strip it down to check after receiving the fork?
Remember that this seal has a pretty easy job, static sealing before the pressures are the same, then it's job is just to slide up and down smoothly, with almost no pressure differential (if anything, the main chamber pressure is a bit higher at that point, because of friction)


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

DGuerra said:


> Hi, I'm looking for feedback on the issue of air pressure transfer from the high pressure to the low pressure chamber. It seems like a system flaw that not everyone takes notice of. The IRT piston's seal is insufficient to maintain a pressure differential of 30 psi or so. I find that both chambers quickly equalize pressure between them. Now, the concept might still work because both chambers will compress at different rates due to having different volumes, but I wish the IRT piston had a double (or even triple) seal that would be able to maintain the pressure differential from one day to the next.


Your IRT seal is worn, likely the inner one. Change that, grease it and you'll be good.

I find I get pressure creep between the chambers at about a 3-6 month time-frame.


----------



## Nicklz (Sep 30, 2020)

Sorry if this has been discussed already, I couldn't find it in the mass of this thread: the 50h oil change (15cc) and 25h 7cc refill, how do you all do this, would this be right: take fork of bike, remove rebound screw and air valve, drop castings half way to open bottom holes, (let oil drip out), fill up/refill both legs, mount back together, back on the bike, pump up and ready to go? 
Any snart way to do it on the bike?


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Nicklz said:


> Sorry if this has been discussed already, I couldn't find it in the mass of this thread: the 50h oil change (15cc) and 25h 7cc refill, how do you all do this, would this be right: take fork of bike, remove rebound screw and air valve, drop castings half way to open bottom holes, (let oil drip out), fill up/refill both legs, mount back together, back on the bike, pump up and ready to go?
> Any snart way to do it on the bike?


The 50hr is a lower service which requires you to remove the lowers totally to do it properly. 
For the 25hr you add the 7cc through the bleed ports in the back of the lowers if you have a later model one that has them. 
Personally I don’t do it that way. I do lower services more often than that anyway and I put 21cc in each leg and don’t ever try and get oil in through those very small bleed ports in between.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

I too have been waiting for a new csu since last summer.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

jimarin said:


> I too have been waiting for a new csu since last summer.


In stock









Mezzer Crown / Steerer Assembly


Description This is a direct replacement for your Mezzer crown steerer assembly. Please refer to your forks service manual for proper installation instructions.




hayesbicycle.com


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

Wow thanks, I guess they just didn’t follow through with what they said they would do then. Last time is asked was January and they said they were still out of stock but would send one as soon as they came in. I’ll reach out to them today.


springs said:


> In stock
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nicklz said:


> Sorry if this has been discussed already, I couldn't find it in the mass of this thread: the 50h oil change (15cc) and 25h 7cc refill, how do you all do this, would this be right: take fork of bike, remove rebound screw and air valve, drop castings half way to open bottom holes, (let oil drip out), fill up/refill both legs, mount back together, back on the bike, pump up and ready to go?
> Any snart way to do it on the bike?


Pull the lowers, wipe the wiper seals clean, take out the foam rings and squash them clean between two paper towels.
Relube and reassemble.

It's much easier to just take the fork off the bike.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I say don't need to take it off the bike, unless you don't have a work stand, but yeah, definitely have to take the lowers off.


----------



## ijak (Jan 5, 2017)

Just received my Mezzer Expert with IRT upgrade. Proceeded with New Owner To-Do list in post #1 and pressured everything accordingly to the calculator (54 IRT / 84 Main).
Right now I am running into an stiction issue from the initial stroke of the fork if not depressed for more than 5 mins. Is this normal? Once I push the fork down the first time, it would get unstuck and go through the travel smoothly every time after that. But let it rest for couple of minutes, that stiction comes back for the initial depression.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Been discussed multiple times, it's the result of quad rings, they get sort of sucked down on the stanchion so need a push to initiate movement.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

jimarin said:


> Wow thanks, I guess they just didn’t follow through with what they said they would do then. Last time is asked was January and they said they were still out of stock but would send one as soon as they came in. I’ll reach out to them today.


Theyre sending it out. Apparently they just came in.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

Dougal said:


> It's just the progression of my own tuning scheme.
> Dougal1 was the 12mm shim swap. Compression is then 20,17.5,12,11mm. I polished the rebound piston flat, installed a flat rebound stack and a Dorado midvalve spring.
> Dougal2 can't remember exactly, it's on a tuning sheet at work. Didn't get ridden.
> Dougal3 is compression a little softer again, gone back to a standard, slightly dished, rebound piston and a flat stack to get a more linear rebound curve. It has more low speed rebound than stock and softer compression.
> ...


Care to share what your rebound shim stack looks like in the Dougal3?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Two_bricks said:


> Care to share what your rebound shim stack looks like in the Dougal3?


It's a single stage flat stack with a smaller clamp shim.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Going through my 170mm Mezzer tomorrow to try to get a little more initial compliance out of the structure. Doing the quad ring replacement and burnishing the bushings.

Does anyone ever run it in a 180mm setting then do the negative air trick to to set it to 170mm height? Or is that too drastic of an effect for most people?

I generally run the fork very firm through the mid stroke but rely on the initial compliance heavily for tracking. Any time I've tried softer spring settings I keep coming back. Running 65/92psi at 180lb.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

Dougal said:


> It's a single stage flat stack with a smaller clamp shim.


Can you elaborate a bit, what shim size, amount, etc. I'm not totally happy with how the stock rebound tune behaves. I run it fully open and in some occasions think it still feels a tad too slow.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> Going through my 170mm Mezzer tomorrow to try to get a little more initial compliance out of the structure. Doing the quad ring replacement and burnishing the bushings.
> 
> Does anyone ever run it in a 180mm setting then do the negative air trick to to set it to 170mm height? Or is that too drastic of an effect for most people?
> 
> I generally run the fork very firm through the mid stroke but rely on the initial compliance heavily for tracking. Any time I've tried softer spring settings I keep coming back. Running 65/92psi at 180lb.


Run a bigger split on pressures. Try 50/100.



Two_bricks said:


> Can you elaborate a bit, what shim size, amount, etc. I'm not totally happy with how the stock rebound tune behaves. I run it fully open and in some occasions think it still feels a tad too slow.


No sorry.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Run a bigger split on pressures. Try 50/100.


What behavior would that be targeting?


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

GH28 said:


> Going through my 170mm Mezzer tomorrow to try to get a little more initial compliance out of the structure. Doing the quad ring replacement and burnishing the bushings.
> 
> Does anyone ever run it in a 180mm setting then do the negative air trick to to set it to 170mm height? Or is that too drastic of an effect for most people?
> 
> I generally run the fork very firm through the mid stroke but rely on the initial compliance heavily for tracking. Any time I've tried softer spring settings I keep coming back. Running 65/92psi at 180lb.


That’s super high pressures for your weight and 170mm travel. No wonder you don’t have very good initial compliance. I wouldn’t be touching the bushings until you play with air pressures some more. 
I‘d be trying around 49 and 82 then upping the IRT and LSC from there if you want more support. If you don’t like that then start making irreversible changes. 
Also the split between your pressures is fairly close especially if you want progression. Your set up is on the more linear side. A bigger split will give you more progression so you can have better initial feel and more progression. I have found that a multiple of 1.65 gets you pretty close and it’s just fine tuning from there.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Tried 50/100 and it's a bit better. Would still want that support to be a little earlier on so I'll likely go up a touch on the main chamber.

The 50/100 setting helps the initial compliance a bit, but can still feel the bushings binding on side-loads just a bit. The drag from the bushings was very obvious when inserting one leg into the lowers individually, so no doubt that they need some attention.

I learned a long time ago not to try to mask structural issues with pneumatic/damping settings and use those as excuses for the structure being discrepant. They're two different issues. Same goes with the back end of the bike, whether it's misalignment causing shock binding and pivot drag, or just the frame being psycho stiff or really noodle-y. No magic clicker setting is going to fix those.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

GH28 said:


> Tried 50/100 and it's a bit better. Would still want that support to be a little earlier on so I'll likely go up a touch on the main chamber.
> 
> The 50/100 setting helps the initial compliance a bit, but can still feel the bushings binding on side-loads just a bit. The drag from the bushings was very obvious when inserting one leg into the lowers individually, so no doubt that they need some attention.
> 
> I learned a long time ago not to try to mask structural issues with pneumatic/damping settings and use those as excuses for the structure being discrepant. They're two different issues. Same goes with the back end of the bike, whether it's misalignment causing shock binding and pivot drag, or just the frame being psycho stiff or really noodle-y. No magic clicker setting is going to fix those.


Exactly and my Mezzer lower bushings were some of the tightest I've burnished, talk about a work out.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Well, those bushings were tight as hell.

Running 60/110 now, and will probably go up a bit more from there since I'll be riding some steep burly stuff this weekend. Running the comp at L4 H2 (from closed). Reb 3 from full open.

170mm fork on a Transition Spire. 180lb rider. Did the quad ring swap at the same time, so I don't have a feel for which modification made which difference.


----------



## ijak (Jan 5, 2017)

GH28 said:


> Well, those bushings were tight as hell.
> 
> Running 60/110 now, and will probably go up a bit more from there since I'll be riding some steep burly stuff this weekend. Running the comp at L4 H2 (from closed). Reb 3 from full open.
> 
> 170mm fork on a Transition Spire. 180lb rider. Did the quad ring swap at the same time, so I don't have a feel for which modification made which difference.


Just curious - what did you swap the quad ring to? Part number?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

It's been mentioned over and over on the past couple of pages, one size down.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

ijak said:


> Just curious - what did you swap the quad ring to? Part number?


214

Blkdout was kind of enough to send me a couple and let me borrow the bushing sizing tool.


----------



## ijak (Jan 5, 2017)

Yeah I went back couple pages and saw that info. Reached out to him for some 214s


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> Well, those bushings were tight as hell.
> 
> Running 60/110 now, and will probably go up a bit more from there since I'll be riding some steep burly stuff this weekend. Running the comp at L4 H2 (from closed). Reb 3 from full open.
> 
> 170mm fork on a Transition Spire. 180lb rider. Did the quad ring swap at the same time, so I don't have a feel for which modification made which difference.


Are you getting full travel at 60/110? That's pretty firm for your weight.

A bigger split makes the fork more progressive. Softer off the top but keeps final progression. I'm still experimenting with mine.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Are you getting full travel at 60/110? That's pretty firm for your weight.
> 
> A bigger split makes the fork more progressive. Softer off the top but keeps final progression. I'm still experimenting with mine.


I'm able to get into the HBO zone pretty easily. Went to 55/120 and I think that's a better spot. Isn't getting into that last two inches as easily.

I don't want my front end to bury on anything less than violent screw-ups. If I'm getting full travel or close to it, something is wrong in the setup or something had to have gone very wrong while riding. One of the two, preferably not both.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> I'm able to get into the HBO zone pretty easily. Went to 55/120 and I think that's a better spot. Isn't getting into that last two inches as easily.
> 
> I don't want my front end to bury on anything less than violent screw-ups. If I'm getting full travel or close to it, something is wrong in the setup or something had to have gone very wrong while riding. One of the two, preferably not both.


Why not use the full travel and let the HBO do it's job? 

The only two times I've felt the end of travel is nose heavy slow tech. I need more progression but right now can't even remember what pressures I'm at. Gotta go back to the setup notes.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Lots of reasons. At that setting with L -3 and H -1 from closed it got to 10mm from the crown so I think it could still go firmer.

Going to see if there's a way to drill the HSC cap for more detent positions. Could use another between -1 and closed.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

GH28 said:


> Lots of reasons. At that setting with L -3 and H -1 from closed it got to 10mm from the crown so I think it could still go firmer.
> 
> Going to see if there's a way to drill the HSC cap for more detent positions. Could use another between -1 and closed.


That all sounds weird. You're running way more IRT pressure and higher HSC then I would ever need (at 200lbs), and I ride terrain that's not short on substantial drops and compressions in steep terrain.

Unless of course you're riding Rampage or Fest type terrain?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I'd venture a guess that he's another case of looking at travel used, not how the bike actually feels, seriously, you don't need any spare travel, just let the damper handle things, if you screw up, compression speeds increase, and so does the damping, plus you have HBO as a bail out option.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have my fork set so that I'm using full travel on a 1m drop to flat, so I'm obviously I use the same full travel on a 2m high drop to flat, in neither case do I feel a lack of control or a harsh bottom out, the suspension is there to give you traction, safety and comfort, having some left over is just wasteful  I'm guessing you rode a Rock Shox or Fox before, so I understand why you'd feel that way, but there is no need to with this fork.
There is also the possibility that you feel like you'd like the fork to ride higher, I was there before, kept adding more and more air, while what I should have done was install a higher rise handlebar 😜


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

The bushings move correctly on it now. Apples to oranges.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

EatsDirt said:


> That all sounds weird. You're running way more IRT pressure and higher HSC then I would ever need (at 200lbs), and I ride terrain that's not short on substantial drops and compressions in steep terrain.
> 
> Unless of course you're riding Rampage or Fest type terrain?


I ride it like a DH bike on DH terrain, not a trail bike (in certain cases). It has to hold up. Other spots call for softer settings.

On paper it's a big swing in pressure but in terms of force it's not THAT different. Remember it's basically two springs in series once the IRT is moving. So going from 90psi to 120psi on the second spring is in no way analogous to the same swing on a Fox or RS single positive air spring. It seems to take 10psi increments to be noticeable on the IRT and about 5psi increments for the main chamber.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

GH28 said:


> I ride it like a DH bike on DH terrain, not a trail bike (in certain cases). It has to hold up. Other spots call for softer settings.
> 
> On paper it's a big swing in pressure but in terms of force it's not THAT different. Remember it's basically two springs in series once the IRT is moving. So going from 90psi to 120psi on the second spring is in no way analogous to the same swing on a Fox or RS single positive air spring. It seems to take 10psi increments to be noticeable on the IRT and about 5psi increments for the main chamber.


My comment was based on owning two of these forks at 170 over the last year, riding legit 'DH' terrain at speeds faster then most, and having ONLY found near bottom once (riding blind/bad decision). I'll add, you should probably close off your LSC... and 5psi in the main makes a huge difference in ride height/feel/support in my experience.

But... that's just my experience, feel free to disregard.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

EatsDirt said:


> My comment was based on owning two of these forks at 170 over the last year, riding legit 'DH' terrain at speeds faster then most, and having ONLY found near bottom once (riding blind/bad decision). I'll add, you should probably close off your LSC... and 5psi in the main makes a huge difference in ride height/feel/support in my experience.
> 
> But... that's just my experience, feel free to disregard.


I totally agree with the LSC statement and mentioned that in an earlier post too. It makes a big difference to the support and has very little if any downside as far as initial compliance goes. I’m only 73kg (160lb) ready to ride and by the sounds of it not riding terrain as steep as you guys, because it’s not that common over here but I run my LSC 1 click from closed. It feels really good like that and still plush.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

I do still need to play with the L adjuster more. The H is easy to reach down on a climb and make a coarse adjustment. I've noticed that closing the L off doesn't generate immediate damping response which seems a bit odd. Interestingly, once you close the H adjuster that immediate low end response comes on.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

You wont feel the low speed immidiately, but it does a surprising difference on how much travel you use on repeated hits or small drops/ledges, obviously adds a bit support in corners too.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Sorry for the noob question, but I can't find any info on this here or youtube. 

Can anyone explain to me this Semi Bath Oil Lower Leg service stuff? The 7cc top-up and 15cc lower leg clean and relube? I'm trying to get my bike ready for this years riding and want to do this soon. But never have understood it, as there are no videos for the Mezzer Pro. I bought a bottle of the Supergliss 100k so I could do this myself.

This info below seems to be the correct amounts of oil I put in and when? But still not 100% sure how, is it both legs, or only one, etc? I found a few videos showing the servicing of a Fox fork. And they take the lowers off, drain all the oil out of the lower legs. Wipe everything off and do a bunch of other stuff, then put the lowers back on, but not all the way. They then dump about 30-40cc of oil in the Damper side of the fork. Then 10cc in the Air side. 

But this info below looks like the Mezzer Pro only uses 15cc? Is that correct? And is it 15cc for both legs or only one?

And what is this Bath oil top-up of 7cc? How do I do that? What is it for? Do I do it the same way I would the lower leg clean and relube? Or just dump 7cc of oil into both or one leg at those interval times mentioned? And is it with the same Supergliss 100k oil I already bought? 

Thanks guys



_Service info from Dougal:
At 25/75/125/175 hours add 7cc bath oil to the lower legs
At 50/100/150 hours do a full lower leg oil change (15cc) and air spring clean/lube
At 200 hours do a full service (seals, foam rings, air-seals, damper oil etc).

Stated another way:
25hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
50hr Lower Leg clean and relube with 15cc
75hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
100hr Lower Leg and Air Spring clean and relube 15cc
125hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
150hr Lower Leg and Air Spring clean and relube 15cc
175hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
200hr Full service with oil change, wiper seal & air seal change.
Go to the top and repeat._


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I believe it's explained on the first page of this thread, basically you put 15cc in each leg and later add 7cc mid services to extend the interval, or you could put 21cc at the start.
Every 50h or so you're supposed to strip the lowers down and replace the oil, it's pretty simple really, not sure what's hard to understand from the info quoted.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

SuperWookie said:


> Sorry for the noob question, but I can't find any info on this here or youtube.
> 
> Can anyone explain to me this Semi Bath Oil Lower Leg service stuff? The 7cc top-up and 15cc lower leg clean and relube? I'm trying to get my bike ready for this years riding and want to do this soon. But never have understood it, as there are no videos for the Mezzer Pro. I bought a bottle of the Supergliss 100k so I could do this myself.
> 
> ...


Manitou has a step by step picture manual on their website that show the Pro and Expert service procedures.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

SuperWookie said:


> Sorry for the noob question, but I can't find any info on this here or youtube.
> 
> Can anyone explain to me this Semi Bath Oil Lower Leg service stuff? The 7cc top-up and 15cc lower leg clean and relube? I'm trying to get my bike ready for this years riding and want to do this soon. But never have understood it, as there are no videos for the Mezzer Pro. I bought a bottle of the Supergliss 100k so I could do this myself.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

SuperWookie said:


> Sorry for the noob question, but I can't find any info on this here or youtube.
> 
> Can anyone explain to me this Semi Bath Oil Lower Leg service stuff? The 7cc top-up and 15cc lower leg clean and relube? I'm trying to get my bike ready for this years riding and want to do this soon. But never have understood it, as there are no videos for the Mezzer Pro. I bought a bottle of the Supergliss 100k so I could do this myself.
> 
> ...


Yes 15cc for each leg. Ignore Fox stuff.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Get the fork horizontal preferably in a vice using a pipe clamp. If you don’t have a vice you can lay it on a bench or the floor but it will obviously move around more. You remove the lowers by taking the two 14mm nuts off the bottom of the lowers after you have removed the rebound adjuster and the valve cap on the air spring side. You don’t need to let the air out of the fork if you are just doing a lower service.. Carefully slide the lowers off. Empty any oil out of them. Pull the foam rings out from under the fork seal. Clean them up with a rag or paper towel. Make you don’t tear or break them. Wipe any dirt and old grease off the fork seals. Soak the foam rings with the Supergliss. That oil is fine for the lower bath oil as well. Reinstall the foam rings under the fork seals. Lube the fork seals with Slickoleum and put the lowers aside. Spray the stanchions, damper rod and air spring shaft with isopropyl alcohol to make sure everything is clean. Grab the lowers and at this stage I usually put a thin coating of Slickoleum on the upper bush in the lowers and carefully slide them back on making sure both fork seals go over the stanchions at the same time and don’t bind or get caught. Slide the lowers up about 75% of the way so the damper rod and air spring shaft don’t come through the holes in the bottom of the lowers. Put 21cc of Supergliss into each leg with a syringe. Slide the lowers up slowly until the rods come through the holes in the bottom of the lowers re-install the nuts that hold the lowers on. At this stage you will need an Allen key to insert into the damper shaft and a thin wall 8mm socket to put on the bottom of the air shaft to stop them from spinning while you Knick up the base nuts. You don’t want the shafts spinning too much while you are tightening the nuts because you could damage the seals on the bottom of the rods that stops oil leaking out the bottom of the lowers. Reinstall the rebound adjuster and valve cap and go ride. 
The 7cc at 25hrs is supposed to be put in through the bleed ports on the back of the lowers on later model forks. It’s a major pain in the arse to do so just put 21cc in straight up and don’t bother with the 25hr top up and service the lowers again at 50hrs or less.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

OzIbis said:


> Get the fork horizontal preferably in a vice using a pipe clamp. If you don’t have a vice you can lay it on a bench or the floor but it will obviously move around more. You remove the lowers by taking the two 14mm nuts off the bottom of the lowers after you have removed the rebound adjuster and the valve cap on the air spring side. You don’t need to let the air out of the fork if you are just doing a lower service.. Carefully slide the lowers off. Empty any oil out of them. Pull the foam rings out from under the fork seal. Clean them up with a rag or paper towel. Make you don’t tear or break them. Wipe any dirt and old grease off the fork seals. Soak the foam rings with the Supergliss. That oil is fine for the lower bath oil as well. Reinstall the foam rings under the fork seals. Lube the fork seals with Slickoleum and put the lowers aside. Spray the stanchions, damper rod and air spring shaft with isopropyl alcohol to make sure everything is clean. Grab the lowers and at this stage I usually put a thin coating of Slickoleum on the upper bush in the lowers and carefully slide them back on making sure both fork seals go over the stanchions at the same time and don’t bind or get caught. Slide the lowers up about 75% of the way so the damper rod and air spring shaft don’t come through the holes in the bottom of the lowers. Put 21cc of Supergliss into each leg with a syringe. Slide the lowers up slowly until the rods come through the holes in the bottom of the lowers re-install the nuts that hold the lowers on. At this stage you will need an Allen key to insert into the damper shaft and a thin wall 8mm socket to put on the bottom of the air shaft to stop them from spinning while you Knick up the base nuts. You don’t want the shafts spinning too much while you are tightening the nuts because you could damage the seals on the bottom of the rods that stops oil leaking out the bottom of the lowers. Reinstall the rebound adjuster and valve cap and go ride.
> The 7cc at 25hrs is supposed to be put in through the bleed ports on the back of the lowers on later model forks. It’s a major pain in the arse to do so just put 21cc in straight up and don’t bother with the 25hr top up and service the lowers again at 50hrs or less.


It was super easy for me to add the 7cc through the bleed port.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

JK-47 said:


> It was super easy for me to add the 7cc through the bleed port.


That‘s cool you’ve obviously got a good system you use to do it. I can’t be bothered trying to get past the occasional air lock or the oil bubbling out at times as you try to get it in there. I just find it’s one less thing to worry about doing the 21cc straight up and servicing more often. Not saying you are wrong just I prefer doing it the other way.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

OzIbis said:


> That‘s cool you’ve obviously got a good system you use to do it. I can’t be bothered trying to get past the occasional air lock or the oil bubbling out at times as you try to get it in there. I just find it’s one less thing to worry about doing the 21cc straight up and servicing more often. Not saying you are wrong just I prefer doing it the other way.


Yeah...OK


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Hi guys, I have a Mezzer Pro (got it late last year). It's on my 10yro Sons freeride bike. The kid rides with a competitive team, some racing and lot of big sends. He's only 80lbs tho. I think I've got 20PSI in there now and 45PSI in the IRT. Still dialing things in. I'm wondering if re-shimming the rebound and compression would be a big deal? @Dougal you mentioned its something I should consider. 

Question: Any recommendation on what that shim configuration should look like?

Also, is there a video showing the shimming process? I've taken the lowers off and re-oiled everything but have yet to open up the damper etc. I've seen the one document that shows a bit of it but a video of this would be a godsend as I'm newer to the process.

People have mentioned that newer MY21 forks have a lighter tune to them. How can I tell what model year I have? I'm 99% sure its a 21 as I was waiting for a long time for new shipment/stock to come in before getting one.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

You can tell by the markings on the crown, I don't think lowers are a good indicator, as some forks were retrofitted with the updated ones.
Compression damping I'm not sure if you have to change for this usage, might want to remove one of the shims though, as mentioned on the first page if this thread, as for rebound, maybe switching the second shim to a smaller one would make enough difference? Again, for reference look at the first page, everything needed is written there.


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

The front page doc on tuning shows how to get into the damper and tune the compression stack and remove the one shim. Where is the rebound stack tho? Is it pretty easy to find/get to?



piciu256 said:


> You can tell by the markings on the crown, I don't think lowers are a good indicator, as some forks were retrofitted with the updated ones.
> Compression damping I'm not sure if you have to change for this usage, might want to remove one of the shims though, as mentioned on the first page if this thread, as for rebound, maybe switching the second shim to a smaller one would make enough difference? Again, for reference look at the first page, everything needed is written there.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Easier actually, or rather the same, the most important thing is the stack itself, listed in the first post as reference, I cannot guide you in the right direction, at 30 psi it's just fast enough to not be a bother, I'm running it one to two clicks in actually, because I'm able to.
The rebound stack is on the rebound piston obviously, you just have to unscrew the cartridge tube to get to it, then a 5mm Allen key to remove the stack.


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Hey thank you. When adjusting the rebound knob, is that adjusting just the Low-Speed-Rebound (and the high speed is hard-set) or does it adjust Rebound as a whole (no LSR/HSR delineation)?



piciu256 said:


> Easier actually, or rather the same, the most important thing is the stack itself, listed in the first post as reference, I cannot guide you in the right direction, at 30 psi it's just fast enough to not be a bother, I'm running it one to two clicks in actually, because I'm able to.
> The rebound stack is on the rebound piston obviously, you just have to unscrew the cartridge tube to get to it, then a 5mm Allen key to remove the stack.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

It's a preset linearish shim stack and you're adjusting the bleed, like on most forks out there.
I remember reading that on most forks it's tuned in a way that actually shifts the whole damping range, but not sure if it's actually the case.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Ok, so did some urban type stuff, a couple of nasty hucks etc, first of all, pressures from the calculator are definitely not enough for this kind of stuff, not sure if I'll go all the way to the Manitou recommendation, since current setup (giving about 25% sag) makes roots etc. disappear, but already rounded the pressures up (from 32 to 35, from 58 to 65) and seen it's way too low, even with high speed cranked all the way in, to support a huck to flat comfortably, will decide what to do after riding park tomorrow.
Also, my steerer tube is definitely walking it's way to its presumed comfortable spot, as in all the way seated, have to re tighten the headset after every single slapper landing, and after a couple of those the amount of it portruding is definitely less than it was before 😅
Shame they didn't address it when I warranted the lowers and mentioned the issue.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Mine has gotten a creaky steerer and is going back shortly. Had higher hopes for this thing.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

After my retune on mine I've been running more and more progression with good results. I used to run 40/60psi on my old bike, new bike is longer and slacker so 35/60 gave me the mid-stroke I was looking for but I started finding bottom-out on nose-heavy tracks.

Ride yesterday I went to 35/70psi and still got a hard stop at full travel so now I'm at 35/80psi.

I haven't got the fork graphed out like this. I'll get some pretty pics next time.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Follow up for anyone interested in this.

I did an oil change this weekend and swapped in the 214 quad seal.

Visually the 214 is a couple mm (literally a couple, not like half the size or anything like that) smaller.

Very impressed with the results, had to bump up LSC/HSC/rebound on the fork one click each and went down a click on the same on the shock (coil Storia).

If you blindfolded me I would say the Mezzer with the quad seal and burnish is smoother over small bump than the RFX 36.

RFX 36 isn't a slouch but mine is pretty firmly damped where running HSC +1 from full open causes me some issues going up rock slabs just like having too high of a coil rate on a shock or fork.

Would definitely recommend the air piston change, will take another ride or so to rebalance everything but definitely a noticeable positive difference.

I also test fit a couple of these - McMaster-Carr - that I bought from McMaster Carr for the bleed ports on the back of the legs.

They fit perfectly and it will be pretty easy to find some tubing to fit over the barbed end and use a small syringe to inject oil into the legs at the 25 hour interval.













silentG said:


> I did some research on the 214 quad seal in the this thread pile and I will make a note to replace the stock air spring seal with one.
> 
> Will see if I can dig up the HSC shim stack adjustment in this mega thread...
> 
> I'm lucky enough to have an updated DVO Onyx and it is really plush...like bottomless plush feeling. Different type of ride than Mezzer/M2 but in the same neighborhood as a package so far.


----------



## eeyore2012 (Feb 5, 2009)

So I went ahead and ordered a mezzer pro, and I did the recommendations from the first post (and a travel change) and I have a few observations/questions. even before I took the fork apart on the first compression after a while of just sitting there it made a clunk about in the middle of the travel (kinda sounds like it was from the spring side----but its hard to tell). so I thought--"eh, maybe thats normal" then I took it apart, everything seemed fine, did need some slickoleum and semi bath. no problem there. put it back toogether. and it still makes a clunk the first time you compress it about half way in. so, is that normal? also, I think air from the IRT is leaking into the main air chamber. I pumped them up to 72 irt and 46 main, and after an hour of just sitting there its at 58 irt and 48 main....so thats probably no good as well? was gonna call manitou tomorrow, just wanted to see if you guys could offer me any insight as well. tia


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

That's normal. The IRT volume is quite small, and that pressure has to fill the pump.

Seeing an increase in the main chamber isn't normal however.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

eeyore2012 said:


> So I went ahead and ordered a mezzer pro, and I did the recommendations from the first post (and a travel change) and I have a few observations/questions. even before I took the fork apart on the first compression after a while of just sitting there it made a clunk about in the middle of the travel (kinda sounds like it was from the spring side----but its hard to tell). so I thought--"eh, maybe thats normal" then I took it apart, everything seemed fine, did need some slickoleum and semi bath. no problem there. put it back toogether. and it still makes a clunk the first time you compress it about half way in. so, is that normal? also, I think air from the IRT is leaking into the main air chamber. I pumped them up to 72 irt and 46 main, and after an hour of just sitting there its at 58 irt and 48 main....so thats probably no good as well? was gonna call manitou tomorrow, just wanted to see if you guys could offer me any insight as well. tia


Is it a clunk or is it the air-piston seal breaking stiction? 
Did you grease the IRT? If not the seals can chatter and leak but will slide smoothly and seal when lubed. The IRT chamber is tiny so the pressure drops a lot when you connect a pump.


----------



## eeyore2012 (Feb 5, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Is it a clunk or is it the air-piston seal breaking stiction?
> Did you grease the IRT? If not the seals can chatter and leak but will slide smoothly and seal when lubed. The IRT chamber is tiny so the pressure drops a lot when you connect a pump.


yes I greased the IRT. maybe the clunk is where the irt engages (for lack of a better word?) it only does it on the first stoke after a period of inactivity. and chatter is a good word to describe the way a slow compression feels when Im just standing over the fork, obviously I cant feel it when riding. and yes the pump does steal some of the air when connecting, but I did a little experiment, immediately reconnecting the pump, the IRT is at 68 (from 72) and the main is at 45 (from 46) and after an hour or so the IRT is at 58 and the main 48.......


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Any one have any long term use of the qr214 seal for reliability, i am tempted to try it but don't want to be let down on a ride with a stuck down fork.. At least easy fix on a manitou.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

boostinmini said:


> Any one have any long term use of the qr214 seal for reliability, i am tempted to try it but don't want to be let down on a ride with a stuck down fork.. At least easy fix on a manitou.


If it makes you feel better, the stock one is capable of making that condition exist if there's any particulate on it, which is quite annoying. So far have had better luck with the 214 seal but paid lots of attention to cleaning/greasing that interface.


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

GH28 said:


> If it makes you feel better, the stock one is capable of making that condition exist if there's any particulate on it, which is quite annoying. So far have had better luck with the 214 seal but paid lots of attention to cleaning/greasing that interface.


How long have you had the 214 and how cold have you ridden?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

eeyore2012 said:


> yes I greased the IRT. maybe the clunk is where the irt engages (for lack of a better word?) it only does it on the first stoke after a period of inactivity. and chatter is a good word to describe the way a slow compression feels when Im just standing over the fork, obviously I cant feel it when riding. and yes the pump does steal some of the air when connecting, but I did a little experiment, immediately reconnecting the pump, the IRT is at 68 (from 72) and the main is at 45 (from 46) and after an hour or so the IRT is at 58 and the main 48.......


Try pre charging the pump for the IRT. Not sure you can do that on the main due to the poppet.

FWIW, the two mezzers I’ve owned have occasionally had the air spring make that “clunk” on first compression. NBD.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

boostinmini said:


> How long have you had the 214 and how cold have you ridden?


Not long, not cold. Only a few rides since that change and it's now going back for CSU issues.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

The clunk is normal, it's the IRT piston starting to move after a while of sitting, mine stopped doing it after a bit of riding and a fresh grease with a drop of oil.
As for the air leaking, take out the IRT and make sure there is no hair or nothing like that stuck to the seals, if it's clean then you have a worn/ damaged o-ring, I'd go to the hardware store and buy a couple for replacement, wouldn't want to ship the fork out to Manitou for such a simple thing.


----------



## eeyore2012 (Feb 5, 2009)

piciu256 said:


> The clunk is normal, it's the IRT piston starting to move after a while of sitting, mine stopped doing it after a bit of riding and a fresh grease with a drop of oil.
> As for the air leaking, take out the IRT and make sure there is no hair or nothing like that stuck to the seals, if it's clean then you have a worn/ damaged o-ring, I'd go to the hardware store and buy a couple for replacement, wouldn't want to ship the fork out to Manitou for such a simple thing.


Thanks all you guys (cant figure out how to quote all the others helping👴). I took the IRT back out, again, and cleaned it, again, and lubed it with what I thought to be too much lube. put it back together and voilà its holding pressure. still makes a clunk, but less noticable now. so who knows, maybe I was too conservative lubing everything up the first time around.

the main thing is I went for the first ride today and was completely blown away! tons of traction and tons of control and my hands hurt less than usual after this one gnarly descent on my control trail. so rad!


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Anyone know the damper piston outside diameter offhand?
Thanks


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Ugh... 46 pages in this thread.
I admit I didn't read any but the first. So why am I contributing to this novel?
I finally worked up the courage to get into a suspension fork -- starting with my Mezzer Pro.

Figured I should have the products I'll need to complete a routine service on hand before I start.
Post #1 in this thread indicates I should have one of these (at least I think just one of these?) two products:

Motorex Power Synt 4t 5w40 (Link)
Supergliss [*100k*: _5 - 30C+_], [*68k*: _0 - 30C_], [*32k*: _-5 - 20C_] (Link)
...but I don't have either and I can't seem to find them for purchase anywhere on the interwebz.

I also looked on YouTube for a video tutorial on servicing the Mezzer -- nuttin', honey.
(Yes, I have Hayes' Mezzer Service Guide. I'd prefer to watch a vid.)

So... questions:

Will either of the lubricants bulleted above work or do I need both?
Where can I buy one or the other or both?
Is the fork servicing process as intimidating as I feel it is?
How can I measure the level of semi-bath oil currently in my fork?
How does one introduce / add semi-bath oil into a fork?
Thank you for taking me by the hand, talking very slowly using small words and walking me through the garden of I've Never Opened A Suspension Component Before.
=sParty


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I recommend the Powersynt over supergliss, almost as slippery and much more universal, you should be able to just find it online, I paid 15$ for a liter bottle. 
As for checking oil level, I don't believe there is a need to, just confirm there is oil in there and you're golden, do a service after a couple of hours of riding, after everything settled nicely.
My oil was perfectly clean still when I changed it, but better safe than sorry, there were some specs of paint floating in there so did a thorough clean also.
Most importantly, open the air spring side and grease the seals and shafts, it's common to find a random glob of grease in there, but not spread to the important areas.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> Ugh... 46 pages in this thread.
> I admit I didn't read any but the first. So why am I contributing to this novel?
> I finally worked up the courage to get into a suspension fork -- starting with my Mezzer Pro.
> 
> ...


The fork is easy to work on honestly. Fox are a little PINA, this fork is planned out to be user friendly.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> Ugh... 46 pages in this thread.
> I admit I didn't read any but the first. So why am I contributing to this novel?
> I finally worked up the courage to get into a suspension fork -- starting with my Mezzer Pro.
> 
> ...


I bought the oil from Manitou.

Do you have the tools and Slick Honey?

I did an oil change on mine and wanted to drill out that white disk between the lowers and the damper, but it was too dark in my garage to see what I was doing and gave up on that until next time.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

The biggest key with working on Manitou forks is to pay attention to the direction of things when tightening and loosening. 

The service manual has good pictures:










For example, this is to loosen the lower foot nut and you are turning clockwise just like the photo shows but if you just go Johnny Commando and just wing it you might assume it is counter-clockwise and that leads to sadness and broken parts.

Key is to take your time and just follow along with the service manual and you will be fine.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Curveball said:


> I bought the oil from Manitou.
> 
> Do you have the tools and Slick Honey?
> 
> I did an oil change on mine and wanted to drill out that white disk between the lowers and the damper, but it was too dark in my garage to see what I was doing and gave up on that until next time.


I have Slickoleum. 
Giess I’ll just wait for the oil to return to stock. 
=sParty


----------



## eeyore2012 (Feb 5, 2009)

Sparticus said:


> I have Slickoleum.
> Giess I’ll just wait for the oil to return to stock.
> =sParty


 universal cycles has all the manitou oils in stock. its where I just got my semi bath









Manitou Semi-Bath Fork Oil


Manitou Semi-Bath Fork Oil :: From $14.99 :: Manitou Fork Oil & Lubricants




www.universalcycles.com


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

eeyore2012 said:


> universal cycles has all the manitou oils in stock. its where I just got my semi bath
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They always seem to have what I want when other places don't.


----------



## eeyore2012 (Feb 5, 2009)

Curveball said:


> They always seem to have what I want when other places don't.


for sure. between that and their handy wait list notifications Ive managed to get most things ive been looking for within a reasonable anount of time


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

eeyore2012 said:


> universal cycles has all the manitou oils in stock. its where I just got my semi bath
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Curveball said:


> They always seem to have what I want when other places don't.


Thanks, guys!
Is one 100ml bottle enough to service my fork?
Doesn't sound like very much... should I buy a couple bottles?
Thanks again!
=sParty

P.S. I've been a loyal UC customer for years -- love that they've got this stuff in stock.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> Thanks, guys!
> Is one 100ml bottle enough to service my fork?
> Doesn't sound like very much... should I buy a couple bottles?
> Thanks again!
> ...


Yes, I bought the 100 mL bottle. You only use about 15 mL per fork leg.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Sparticus said:


> Thanks, guys!
> Is one 100ml bottle enough to service my fork?
> Doesn't sound like very much... should I buy a couple bottles?
> Thanks again!
> ...


Motorex Power Synt 4T Engine Oil - 5W40 | 198462 | eBay


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

EatsDirt said:


> Motorex Power Synt 4T Engine Oil - 5W40 | 198462 | eBay


Thanks, bro. Already ordered the Manitou stuff from UC. 
=sParty


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> Thanks, bro. Already ordered the Manitou stuff from UC.
> =sParty


I might have some time to help you out with it this weekend since I'll be down that way.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Curveball said:


> I might have some time to help you out with it this weekend since I'll be down that way.


That would be awesome.
BUT... our household ~may~ not be covid-free by then.
I re-tested yesterday, still covid positive.
GF's covid situation started a few days after mine (I gave it to her) so she'll take longer to clear.
Please stay in touch. It'd be great to get together if planets align AND the universe is safe.
I'm sooo sick of this. Literally.
=sParty


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> That would be awesome.
> BUT... our household ~may~ not be covid-free by then.
> I re-tested yesterday, still covid positive.
> GF's covid situation started a few days after mine (I gave it to her) so she'll take longer to clear.
> ...


Oh no! I was hoping that you'd be much better by now. I'm dealing with, yet another, sinus infection. But at least I can get that treated and hopefully better by the weekend.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Sparticus said:


> Ugh... 46 pages in this thread.
> I admit I didn't read any but the first. So why am I contributing to this novel?
> I finally worked up the courage to get into a suspension fork -- starting with my Mezzer Pro.
> 
> ...


PM me if you want to I’ll run you through the procedure without everyone on here having to read the procedure again. Up to you but I’m happy to help if you need it.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

OzIbis said:


> PM me if you want to I’ll run you through the procedure without everyone on here having to read the procedure again. Up to you but I’m happy to help if you need it.


Thanks. Hopefully Curveball and I will be able to tip some brews this weekend while he walks me though the process.
That is, assuming my Manitou fork oil arrives in time. UC's confirmation email said it'll ship on Wednesday but they don't have any here in Oregon so I'm not sure where it'll ship from.
When UC ships from Beaverton, I typically receive my gear in 1-2 days but shipping from one of their other warehouses may be a crap shoot.
Here come old Flat Top
He come groovin' up slowly 
Hopefully everything will come together, right now, over me.
=sParty


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> Thanks. Hopefully Curveball and I will be able to tip some brews this weekend while he walks me though the process.
> That is, assuming my Manitou fork oil arrives in time. UC's confirmation email said it'll ship on Wednesday but they don't have any here in Oregon so I'm not sure where it'll ship from.
> When UC ships from Beaverton, I typically receive my gear in 1-2 days but shipping from one of their other warehouses may be a crap shoot.
> Here come old Flat Top
> ...


It looks like I have projects in Vancouver for the next month, so no big hurry on my end.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Just to chime in about the foot nut, I didn't see any oil trapped up there either, all that was there was a coat of oil, indicative of proper air circulation, so I wouldn't stress about it unless you really see this issue happening.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

piciu256 said:


> Just to chime in about the foot nut, I didn't see any oil trapped up there either, all that was there was a coat of oil, indicative of proper air circulation, so I wouldn't stress about it unless you really see this issue happening.


What issue?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Oil being trapped in the damper leg. Supposedly someone had such an issue.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> Oil being trapped in the damper leg. Supposedly someone had such an issue.


It's a real thing. Both forks I've owned were ported at the splines and they _still _trapped a large portion of the bath oil.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

EatsDirt said:


> It's a real thing. Both forks I've owned were ported at the splines and they _still _trapped a large portion of the bath oil.


Mine did the same. I think its worse if you use most of the travel frequently during your rides but I ended up just pulling the lowers very frequently to remedy it.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

What you mean by large amount though? Like measure that it's half or something, or just saw a thick coat of oil in there? Supergliss or 5w40? I'm running 5w40 and cannot imagine oil actually getting trapped, since air is moving freely, and so must oil as long as gravity pulls it down, so discounting the amount that sticks onto the walls.
I'm using full travel quite often and the first service was after a couple of rides in the mountains, so plenty of deep stroke events.
Just being curious, can't help it 😜


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

When I drain the lowers over two bowls (one each side), there's well over twice the amount in the air side bowl on average- with porting. At times it's been much worse. If I keep pumping the damper, oil will slowly drain out.

Out of probably 6 or 7 lowers services I've done, only once was there adequate bath oil in the damper side lower.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

To be honest, I'd just put a bit more oil on the damper side if that was the case, and roll with it, since yours is ported I can only assume it's somehow caused by the oil itself, not the fork, since with the holes enlarged there is nothing possibly holding the oil in.
Or you're doing something in a way that makes it appear like the oil is getting stuck up there, while in reality it's just pushed there before disassembly?


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

I struggled with trapped oil in the damper leg as well, but only when using Supergliss 100k. Modifying the end cap didn't help much either, that Supergliss is really sticky! No such issues with Motorex 5W40, however.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> To be honest, I'd just put a bit more oil on the damper side if that was the case, and roll with it, since yours is ported I can only assume it's somehow caused by the oil itself, not the fork, since with the holes enlarged there is nothing possibly holding the oil in.
> Or you're doing something in a way that makes it appear like the oil is getting stuck up there, while in reality it's just pushed there before disassembly?


Putting more oil in doesn't sound like a good solution for a few different possible reasons, especially when there's already over 20cc. I've only used the OEM spec motorex.

It's migrating there from riding, not because of "doing something". If/when you experience this... you'll see how that despite the cap being ported (if you post) and no positive pressure (in lowers) it's still extremely slow to drain via gravity.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

There are quite strong air currents flowing through there during riding though, you can even hear them when cycling the fork far enough, as for adding more oil, I'd say 30cc would be plenty safe enough on this side, remember that the damper doesn't take up the whole volume, unlike the air chamber, that's the whole reason oil can get up there in the first place, so there is more surface area to coat as well.
Anyway, I'm sure it's safe either way, imo you're stressing over it too much.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Are you guys with the oil up in the tubes hanging your bikes?

Because I've been on Mezzer since 2019, I run supergliss and I've never had this problem. My bike stays on it's wheels except for shuttle rack transport and the occasional gap in the trail.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Are you guys with the oil up in the tubes hanging your bikes?
> 
> Because I've been on Mezzer since 2019, I run supergliss and I've never had this problem. My bike stays on it's wheels except for shuttle rack transport and the occasional gap in the trail.


Ah crap. I always hang my bike by the front wheel. I thought it was a good thing to do to keep the rings lubricated? Should I stop doing this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Imo, don't worry, if oil flows up the stanchion, it will inevitably flow back down once you start riding, even if it takes a couple of minutes, there will be enough of it coating everything in the meantime anyway, from the nicely lubricated foam rings.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I had this issue, likely not the only one, and by the time it presented itself the stanchions were rubbed and I ended up replacing the CSU.

This was the first generation Mezzer without the bleed ports.

When I dropped the lowers a couple of drops came out of the damper side leg until I cycled the damper shaft and then a bunch 10-12 mL probably - in comparison a bunch and it was unexpected at the time - came out past that white cap.

This was with WPL 20 wt in the fork and after consultation with Manitou they came up with 'stock oil blah blah blah' but the odd thing is the stock oil has a similar cST to the WPL.

So...I dunno there.

I sold that fork and picked up a later generation that is burnished and have been using a light weight oil (Torco purple IIRC) in the legs since every 25 they are getting a refresh of oil anyway and I notched the white cap with a Dremel just to be on the safe side.




piciu256 said:


> Oil being trapped in the damper leg. Supposedly someone had such an issue.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Are you guys with the oil up in the tubes hanging your bikes?
> 
> Because I've been on Mezzer since 2019, I run supergliss and I've never had this problem. My bike stays on it's wheels except for shuttle rack transport and the occasional gap in the trail.


Nope.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> There are quite strong air currents flowing through there during riding though, you can even hear them when cycling the fork far enough, as for adding more oil, I'd say 30cc would be plenty safe enough on this side, remember that the damper doesn't take up the whole volume, unlike the air chamber, that's the whole reason oil can get up there in the first place, so there is more surface area to coat as well.
> Anyway, I'm sure it's safe either way, imo you're stressing over it too much.


LOL. You haven't yet dropped your lowers to find one side near bone-dry... so of course you're an expert on this!


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

EatsDirt said:


> LOL. You haven't yet dropped your lowers to find one side near bone-dry... so of course you're an expert on this!


The fear of a bone dry fork is the reason I've ordered some fork oil and intend to drop my Mezzer's lowers to have a look.
Honestly there's so much stiction in my Mezzer -- my Lyric feels buttery in comparison. Pretty sure there's something wrong here, hopefully all I need to do is add oil.
=sParty


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> The fear of a bone dry fork is the reason I've ordered some fork oil and intend to drop my Mezzer's lowers to have a look.
> Honestly there's so much stiction in my Mezzer -- my Lyric feels buttery in comparison. Pretty sure there's something wrong here, hopefully all I need to do is add oil.
> =sParty


I had plenty of oil in the lowers. But the airshafts needed to be greased. I also did the 214 seal mod. It's a lot better now.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Cerberus75 said:


> I had plenty of oil in the lowers. But the airshafts needed to be greased. I also did the 214 seal mod. It's a lot better now.


214 seal mod?
Remember, I've never opened a fork before.
You might as well be talking rocket surgery.
=sParty


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> 214 seal mod?
> Remember, I've never opened a fork before.
> You might as well be talking rocket surgery.
> =sParty


No problem. There's a seal on the air piston (size 215 its a black rubber ring) that can be replaced with a slightly smaller one. So it has less drag. Hit up blkdoutindustries he has some and sells them cheep. You just pry it off and replace it.The bigger deal is there's barely any grease on either air spring. You need a cassette tool for the main air spring. And proper socket or Knipex wrench to remove the IRT spring.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Are you guys with the oil up in the tubes hanging your bikes?
> 
> Because I've been on Mezzer since 2019, I run supergliss and I've never had this problem. My bike stays on it's wheels except for shuttle rack transport and the occasional gap in the trail.


Only when traveling, using a hanging rack, but I've been using a hanging rack for all bikes for a few years, never found oil in the uppers.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

EatsDirt said:


> LOL. You haven't yet dropped your lowers to find one side near bone-dry... so of course you're an expert on this!


There is literally nothing to hold the oil up there in your case, since the holes are well large enough, there is in theory something holding the oil up there in my case, but still after 50h of riding there was no trapping.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> There is literally nothing to hold the oil up there in your case, since the holes are well large enough, there is in theory something holding the oil up there in my case, but still after 50h of riding there was no trapping.


I have about 300hrs on two forks, both with the same recurring problem. You can tell me it shouldn't happen, but it does.


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

GH28 said:


> Mine has gotten a creaky steerer and is going back shortly. Had higher hopes for this thing.


I’m convinced all long travel single crown forks get creaky CSUs on slack bikes. My first one got creaky after 13 months- waaay longer than I got with my last couple Fox 36. Fox, RS, Manitou, DVO - all got creaky amongst my ride crew. 

2 year Manitou warranty is a freaking WIN!


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> FWIW, the two mezzers I’ve owned have occasionally had the air spring make that “clunk” on first compression. NBD.


Same, it’s all good.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

juice said:


> I’m convinced all long travel single crown forks get creaky CSUs on slack bikes. My first one got creaky after 13 months- waaay longer than I got with my last couple Fox 36. Fox, RS, Manitou, DVO - all got creaky amongst my ride crew.
> 
> 2 year Manitou warranty is a freaking WIN!


Never had a creaky fork, but I have had a CSU that had to "settle".

I had a CSU that "spun" on the steerer, it was that inverted fat bike fork, man was that really sketchy!


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Nurse Ben said:


> Never had a creaky fork, but I have had a CSU that had to "settle".
> 
> I had a CSU that "spun" on the steerer, it was that inverted fat bike fork, man was that really sketchy!


Hey Ben, maybe if you kept a given bike component for longer than 6 months... 🤣
=sParty


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> Nope.


So you're suffering oil trapped up in the stanchion. But your bike doesn't spend any time hanging up?
Do you use full travel regularly or only some-times?


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Just a bit of info, thought I would see whqt this QR214 thing was all about for myself. Measured the QR215 OD installed on the piston it was approx 34.5mm, then installed the QR214 and it was approx 34.2mm od.

I tried to measure the ID of the stanchion but was a little tough with just a digital caliper that barely reached past the threads but the ID seemed to be about 33.5, so a little squish for sure still.

Putting the pump on to open the chamber and cycling back and forth with both quad rings the QR214 has noticeably less friction. 

I guess time will tell how it holds up.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

boostinmini said:


> Just a bit of info, thought I would see whqt this QR214 thing was all about for myself. Measured the QR215 OD installed on the piston it was approx 34.5mm, then installed the QR214 and it was approx 34.2mm od.
> 
> I tried to measure the ID of the stanchion but was a little tough with just a digital caliper that barely reached past the threads but the ID seemed to be about 33.5, so a little squish for sure still.
> 
> ...


I was the first one to try the 214 here if I remember right and run it all winter here in Phoenix with no issues but I'm 150lbs and we don't get super cold temps but was happy with it, that and doing the bushings made a big difference on small bump


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> I was the first one to try the 214 here if I remember right and run it all winter here in Phoenix with no issues but I'm 150lbs and we don't get super cold temps but was happy with it, that and doing the bushings made a big difference on small bump


I'm 175 and even in the 30s there's no leak down. It might wear faster but I find it's worth the trade off.


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Yeah fork feels much better and i had it burnished before the qr214, so it's getting very supple off the top


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Dougal said:


> So you're suffering oil trapped up in the stanchion. But your bike doesn't spend any time hanging up?
> Do you use full travel regularly or only some-times?


Bike never hangs. I used to occasionally flip the bike upside down to get oil back up into the foam but stopped in the event it was causing the issue.

I don’t use full travel unless I’ve done something wrong… slow speed drop into a hole type thing.

I can’t imagine using full travel would actually help given the casting pressure buildup at full bottom is even higher relative to the cavity the oil is trapped in…?

Next service I’m going to drill TF out of that cap as opposed to the subtle porting done previously. Maybe it’ll help?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Cerberus75 said:


> I'm 175 and even in the 30s there's no leak down. It might wear faster but I find it's worth the trade off.


Just a theoretical question, does me running the fork at the lower end of the pressure spectrum make it less likely to have air leaking past the lower squish seal? I'd say probably, but I wouldn't want to end up with a fork with half the travel if I end up running in very cold temps 😅


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> Bike never hangs. I used to occasionally flip the bike upside down to get oil back up into the foam but stopped in the event it was causing the issue.
> 
> I don’t use full travel unless I’ve done something wrong… slow speed drop into a hole type thing.
> 
> ...


The reason for asking about travel is wondering if the damper is building up ingested oil and then squirting it out on the occasional full travel hit. Because the oil the damper squirts out is into the stanchion and has to drain down past that end-cap.

I use full travel regularly so my fork doesn't get to build up a decent amount before it comes out the overflow valve.



piciu256 said:


> Just a theoretical question, does me running the fork at the lower end of the pressure spectrum make it less likely to have air leaking past the lower squish seal? I'd say probably, but I wouldn't want to end up with a fork with half the travel if I end up running in very cold temps 😅


Compression speed is a factor and that is obviously faster for lower pressures. I had a J-unit customer who asked for downsized seals to reduce friction for small bumps. Then they came back saying it was burping on jumps!
They didn't say anything about jumps the first time!


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

piciu256 said:


> Just a theoretical question, does me running the fork at the lower end of the pressure spectrum make it less likely to have air leaking past the lower squish seal? I'd say probably, but I wouldn't want to end up with a fork with half the travel if I end up running in very cold temps 😅
> Standing?
> 
> I would belive so. The higher the pressure the more likely for blow by. I've done some steep cambered drops and jumps lately without issues. But it's been in the 60s. I'm keeping my eye on it. Even if I need to change it every lower leg service I'm cool with that. If I get any blow by before I'll go back to the 215.


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

I just can't find any 37mm fork seal drivers in europe, and I can't find 3d print schematics either. Can someone point me towards a shop in EU who has these, or a schematic for printing?
I'm clueless about 3d printing btw, but I guess I can just pay someone to print it for me locally, right?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

You could just make one out of PVC pipe of fitting dimensions found at your local hardware store.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

jupitersending said:


> I just can't find any 37mm fork seal drivers in europe, and I can't find 3d print schematics either. Can someone point me towards a shop in EU who has these, or a schematic for printing?
> I'm clueless about 3d printing btw, but I guess I can just pay someone to print it for me locally, right?


I printed this one. Works quite well. 









MTB Fork Seal Driver Set by chriskmurray


A full set of fork seal drivers. There are 28, 30, 32, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38 and 40 mm sized drivers in this file. I've not tried them with every seal on the market but they were tested with Fox and Rockshox fork seals to make sure they fit. I would recommend picking a filament that will not...




www.thingiverse.com


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Two_bricks said:


> I printed this one. Works quite well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! I was looking for something like this


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

piciu256 said:


> You could just make one out of PVC pipe of fitting dimensions found at your local hardware store.


Yeah just take the seal with you and find a piece of pipe that will fit. Lay something hard and flat across the top and hit it with a mallet.


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

GH28 said:


> Mine has gotten a creaky steerer and is going back shortly. Had higher hopes for this thing.


Getting a steerer tube here in Australia is near impossible.


----------



## Akira80 (Jul 4, 2011)

davidt93 said:


> Getting a steerer tube here in Australia is near impossible.


I've got a cracking steerer after about 11 months.
Contacted Bike24 (a German online bike shop) and asked them for a new crown-steerer assembly under warranty instead of sending the whole fork. I did send them a video of the cracking fork to prove my claim. It took about two weeks, and they sent it free of charge.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

davidt93 said:


> Getting a steerer tube here in Australia is near impossible.


Get it pressed out, cleaned and pressed back in with fresh loctite. Plenty of places around with hydraulic presses, just get on the phone.


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

springs said:


> Get it pressed out, cleaned and pressed back in with fresh loctite. Plenty of places around with hydraulic presses, just get on the phone.


Any place you'd recommend. Had emailed afew places with no response.


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

davidt93 said:


> Any place you'd recommend. Had emailed afew places with no response.


Highline Cycles in Brisbane to replacement steerer tubes. I'm sure they could press out and reseat your steerer tube.


----------



## osterburger (Oct 18, 2021)

Any recommendations on initial mezzer pro 160mm setup? I weigh 176 lbs. Right now I'm running 55 psi in the main and 87 in IRT chamber. I generally feel its a little bit too harsh but I have just started experimenting.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

osterburger said:


> Any recommendations on initial mezzer pro 160mm setup? I weigh 176 lbs. Right now I'm running 55 psi in the main and 87 in IRT chamber. I generally feel its a little bit too harsh but I have just started experimenting.


What kind of terrain do you ride?


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

osterburger said:


> Any recommendations on initial mezzer pro 160mm setup? I weigh 176 lbs. Right now I'm running 55 psi in the main and 87 in IRT chamber. I generally feel its a little bit too harsh but I have just started experimenting.


Try 48 in the main and 80 in the IRT. For 160mm travel I’ve found that if you set the IRT to your weight in KG’s and divide that by 1.65 and set the main to that you should be pretty close to the money. It will most likely just be fine tuning from there. Also close up your LSC to one or two clicks from closed and run your HSC fairly open if not fully open and try that and see how you like it. If it’s a tad too soft in the initial part of the stroke try bumping it up to 50 in the main.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

osterburger said:


> Any recommendations on initial mezzer pro 160mm setup? I weigh 176 lbs. Right now I'm running 55 psi in the main and 87 in IRT chamber. I generally feel its a little bit too harsh but I have just started experimenting.


Depending on bike geometry you're somewhere between 40-50 in the main chamber and 60-100 in the IRT.

Slack bike, not aggressive. 40-60psi.
Slack bike, mild aggressive 40-80.
Slack bike, really aggressive, 50-100.

Steep bike might be more like 45-70 to 50-100 range.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

osterburger said:


> Any recommendations on initial mezzer pro 160mm setup? I weigh 176 lbs. Right now I'm running 55 psi in the main and 87 in IRT chamber. I generally feel its a little bit too harsh but I have just started experimenting.


I’ll chime in as our set ups seems similar. I’m 175lbs geared up, 160mm fork with a 63.5 HTA. I’m running similar to you at 54/90 but that’s for the dh tracks around here (Mt Prevost in Canada) and it’s been really good. For slightly less aggressive ridding in the winter I was running 50/80 which was noticeably softer through the first 1/3 of travel. All of this is with my lsc 2 clicks from closed and hsc ranging from 2-4 clicks from closed with the stock compression stack. I do think I could probably use a slightly lighter rebound tune as I’m running rebound wide open and it just feels fast enough. I’ve been meaning to try Dougal’s recommendation of 50/100 to see if it would give that mix of amazing support and a little softer initial stroke.

I also found that when I was first breaking in my fork the bushings were slightly tight and as they broke in I could raise the pressures (within reason) without much added harshness. Would love to see if burnishing improved this even more.


----------



## osterburger (Oct 18, 2021)

Thanks for all your input! 
I guess I will try to lower the pressure now, both in main and IRT and compensate with more LSC. Do you think the "shim mod" could be an alternative as well (remove the 17.5 and replace it with 12?)? Or is it just beneficial for lighter riders?


----------



## osterburger (Oct 18, 2021)

Dougal said:


> Depending on bike geometry you're somewhere between 40-50 in the main chamber and 60-100 in the IRT.
> 
> Slack bike, not aggressive. 40-60psi.
> Slack bike, mild aggressive 40-80.
> ...


My HTA is around 65...I guess about 40 PSI in main and 80 in IRT then?


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

osterburger said:


> My HTA is around 65...I guess about 40 PSI in main and 80 in IRT then?


No 40 will be too low for your weight. I strongly recommend you at least try 48 first. You are on the border line weight wise whether you should do the shim mod or not. I would say play with the pressures first and if you still can’t find a happy place with them then look at the shim mod. I wouldn’t go to a 12mm shim at your weight though if you do change the shim. I’m 73kg and have a 14mm shim in my damper in place of the second 17.5mm. I actually prefer it a little over the 12mm. I’ve also tried a 15mm. 14mm Is the one I like the best.


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

osterburger said:


> My HTA is around 65...I guess about 40 PSI in main and 80 in IRT then?


have you tried using this sheet?








Mezzer User Setups


Setup Guide & Pressure Calc Manitou Setup Guide,Travel,140mm 140mm,150mm,160mm,170mm,180mm lbs,kg,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT 300,136,110,152,105,141,101,137,92,132,88,120,150mm 260,118,96,134,91,125,87,121,80,116,76,106,160mm 220,100,82,116,77,109,73,105,68,100,64,92,170mm 200,91




docs.google.com


----------



## osterburger (Oct 18, 2021)

jupitersending said:


> have you tried using this sheet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The ccs86 calculator is pretty much spot on what I've changed to. Did a short ride today and it feels promising with 48 in main and 80 in IRT. 2 clicks from full LSC.


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

osterburger said:


> The ccs86 calculator is pretty much spot on what I've changed to. Did a short ride today and it feels promising with 48 in main and 80 in IRT. 2 clicks from full LSC.


Yeah I also use that one


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

osterburger said:


> Thanks for all your input!
> I guess I will try to lower the pressure now, both in main and IRT and compensate with more LSC. Do you think the "shim mod" could be an alternative as well (remove the 17.5 and replace it with 12?)? Or is it just beneficial for lighter riders?


I wouldn't bother doing it. I'm the same weight as you and have done the shim mod, removed the 17.5 and replaced with a 13. It feels very similar, only change is I now have to run 2-3 clicks in on HSC to have the support I like (before I run it fully open). LSC is the same as before, closed or max 1-2 clicks out. Maybe (or maybe it's placebo) the fork tends to bottom out a bit easier now even with the same pressures as before.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Well dang my first ride on the Mezzer was a good one, and I didn't even have it set up right. 

Some questions: 

- Can I use the IRT chamber as spring preload? IE, run the Main chamber a little softer, but the IRT chamber firmer to get the fork to ride a little higher and ramp up more quickly?

- Can I run nearly equal pressures in the IRT/Main to achieve a more linear feel?


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

PHeller said:


> Well dang my first ride on the Mezzer was a good one, and I didn't even have it set up right.
> 
> Some questions:
> 
> ...


1. Yes up to a point.
2 . Yes. I would keep at least 10psi difference.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Ok I’ve determine that my shock pump doesn’t agree with the Mezzer. If I wind it the whole way on to the Main chamber valve threads, it doesn’t engage the valve. Wind it out, and sometimes I’m filling the negative chamber. It’s very sensitive to its position on the Schader’s threads.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

PHeller said:


> Ok I’ve determine that my shock pump doesn’t agree with the Mezzer. If I wind it the whole way on to the Main chamber valve threads, it doesn’t engage the valve. Wind it out, and sometimes I’m filling the negative chamber. It’s very sensitive to its position on the Schader’s threads.
> 
> View attachment 1983579


This is the pump I've been using with the Mezzer with no issues and I think this one is the one Dougal recommends also.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Can some take a picture of the internals of the chuck that they know works well with the Mezzer's main air fill?

What's interesting is that I've got a floor pump with a head that works pretty well to fill the Mezzer, although it has no air gauge. So it's fill to overly stiff, then release air till it feels good.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

This post removed to preserve the sanctity of INTERNALS discussion...apologies for watering down the topic at hand on my part


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PHeller said:


> Can some take a picture of the internals of the chuck that they know works well with the Mezzer's main air fill?
> 
> What's interesting is that I've got a floor pump with a head that works pretty well to fill the Mezzer, although it has no air gauge. So it's fill to overly stiff, then release air till it feels good.


It's one post above you:









We use these hoses in the workshop on analogue pumps and we get about a year from them until the hoses degrade and the threads wear out (usually about the same time). They work perfectly on the Manitou valves for us. You do need to screw them all the way down.
Quick check to see if negative is working is to compress the fork. It's about 10x easier than normal and has a very slow return when the chambers are connected.

Both my Lezene floor pumps also work. I use the tyre one for big volume forks (Dorado is like 50 strokes of a shock pump or 2 with a tyre pump) and the digital shock floor pump for knowing exact pressures. Usually for spring-rate tests.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Dougal said:


> It's one post above you:


Notice I said INTERNALS. 

Something about my pump's chuck doesn't jive with the Mezzer's main chamber air valve. I want to know why. 

My Planet Bike pump look pretty darn similar to the Rockshox pump...but if I thread my pump the whole way on, it's not filling the fork. I've gotta thread it _*partially*_ on.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Well, that will be a bit tricky with this pump...most pumps maybe, will see if I can manage it while working on my reading comprehension.

Tidied up the prior post to keep things on point for ya.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

You would think that shock pumps should perform similarly, right?

It's just weird I can take a floor pump and that'll work, but my shock pump won't.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

5.5mm from end to the plunger inside.









Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Beto shock pump. The schrader depressor can be adjusted separately. Perfect every time.
Cheap too.


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

I use the Giant digital pump, which seems to be a variant of the RockShox pump posted earlier. Has the 2 stage head, and works perfectly with my Mezzer.


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

benno_r said:


> I use the Giant digital pump, which seems to be a variant of the RockShox pump posted earlier. Has the 2 stage head, and works perfectly with my Mezzer.
> 
> View attachment 1983923


it's exactly the same, made the same place same internals and everything.


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

jupitersending said:


> it's exactly the same, made the same place same internals and everything.


Not quite, it's rated to 400psi vs the fox 300psi. Being a big guy i take shocks up to 320ish psi. Only a small difference, but of course it obvious it's made in the same place.


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

benno_r said:


> I use the Giant digital pump, which seems to be a variant of the RockShox pump posted earlier. Has the 2 stage head, and works perfectly with my Mezzer.
> 
> View attachment 1983923


Could you please clarify what you mean by 2 stage head?

Is it like the beto in that you screw the outer on to the valve, then the schrader core depressor moves separately?

I really like the beto, but it's not digital.

This looks like it could be good..?


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

I use a Reset Racing 2 stage head on my Mezzer. Not the best one, but it was expensive AF. I have it on my digital Rockshox pump.

But I would rather have the Giyo UP-SL head on my RS pump (made by Giyo). I know Formula specs this head on their shock pumps shipped with their forks. Does anyone know of any source for hoses?


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

An interesting head.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Following up on my setup of my new Mezzer.

Rider weight: 255lbs
Travel: 140mm
Main: 100psi
IRT: 130psi

This is 20psi higher than the "pressure calc" in the Excel sheet. 

My issue is that I want the fork to ride higher in the travel. Even at these higher pressures, I'm still getting 20% sag. I can still sink the o-ring to nearly 90% of travel. 

When I ran 85psi Main, 110 IRT, I was getting like 35% sag. It rode comfortable, but I was getting a lot of dive.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PHeller said:


> Following up on my setup of my new Mezzer.
> 
> Rider weight: 255lbs
> Travel: 140mm
> ...


Two questions to complete the picture:

1. What's your riding position for measuring sag?
2. Where're your damping settings at?


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Riding position is just your normal seated position. I usually push the o-ring down against the seal, then pedal a bit without much bob, then slowly roll to a stop next to a curb where I don't need to use brakes. 

Damping is 5 CFC LSC, 2 CFC HSC. I tried it with more of both and felt it was too harsh.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

PHeller said:


> Riding position is just your normal seated position. I usually push the o-ring down against the seal, then pedal a bit without much bob, then slowly roll to a stop next to a curb where I don't need to use brakes.
> 
> Damping is 5 CFC LSC, 2 CFC HSC. I tried it with more of both and felt it was too harsh.


Not that sag is the best indicator. But it should be measured completely still, in Standing position without using the brakes. If rolling and coming to a stop even gently you'll get 10% movement at least.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I'd have even more sag then as a standing position would put more weight on the bars. 

Sag isn't the best indicator, but I can tell the fork is/was riding too low at the suggested pressures. Simply using the o-ring and riding on flat ground I was using up half the travel. Braking hard would use up 60% of the travel. That ain't right.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PHeller said:


> I'd have even more sag then as a standing position would put more weight on the bars.
> 
> Sag isn't the best indicator, but I can tell the fork is/was riding too low at the suggested pressures. Simply using the o-ring and riding on flat ground I was using up half the travel. Braking hard would use up 60% of the travel. That ain't right.


60% fork travel under hard braking is no problem at all. On my bike I'm sure I'm past that. It's about 30% weight on the fork normally, under braking you've got pretty much 100% and the angle of attack is straight towards the load. 

Tune the fork for the bumps. The braking will take care of itself if you've got a stable setup without the fork or shock doing anything silly under weight transfer.


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

CaveGiant said:


> Could you please clarify what you mean by 2 stage head?
> 
> Is it like the beto in that you screw the outer on to the valve, then the schrader core depressor moves separately?
> 
> ...


Yep, that's exactly how the head works. Great pump.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Dougal said:


> 60% fork travel under hard braking is no problem at all. On my bike I'm sure I'm past that. It's about 30% weight on the fork normally, under braking you've got pretty much 100% and the angle of attack is straight towards the load.
> 
> Tune the fork for the bumps. The braking will take care of itself if you've got a stable setup without the fork or shock doing anything silly under weight transfer.


Doesn't this mess with the intend geometry of the bike though?

For example, my bike is designed around a 150mm fork. If I'm riding around at 35% sag, I'm riding at 100mm of travel. If I hit the brakes and sudden I'm at 60% of the travel, I'm now down to just 60mm of travel. 

To me, that much dive is "silly" and doesn't lend itself towards a "stable" platform. 

Don't get me wrong, the fork "feels" great, but I'm half tempted to run my 130mm rear bike with a 160mm travel just so I can get slightly higher BB and slacker angle without all the air pressure needed to minimize sag.


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

PHeller said:


> Doesn't this mess with the intend geometry of the bike though?
> 
> For example, my bike is designed around a 150mm fork. If I'm riding around at 35% sag, I'm riding at 100mm of travel. If I hit the brakes and sudden I'm at 60% of the travel, I'm now down to just 60mm of travel.
> 
> ...


If you feel the bike rides better that way, why not just do it? Just experiment with it, ride how you want. That's one of the cool thing about MTB, you don't have to any any fucks about what anyone else thinks. Just ride how you like.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

PHeller said:


> Doesn't this mess with the intend geometry of the bike though?
> 
> If I'm riding around at 35% sag


Haven't read your posts, but that much sag would suck IME...


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Has anybody here converted a Mezzer Expert to a Pro before? I already replaced the IVA to an IRT, and will be replacing the VTT with the MC2 damper.

I already purchased the MC2 Damper (141-36713-K022) but had a few questions.

The EXPERT looks like it has a Bumper / Bottom Out (Orange Arrow) which doesn't exist on the PRO (due to HBO). *Can that be removed easily?* Additionally, the RED arrow (Damper Assembly, Rebound on the Expert), can the end cap be removed easily? I'm assuming it needs to be re-used when installing the MC2 damper (as the MC2 damper package doesn't come with it). *Is it the same end damper cap as what's on the PRO*? Parts diagram doesn't seem to have a number associated with it.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PHeller said:


> Doesn't this mess with the intend geometry of the bike though?
> 
> For example, my bike is designed around a 150mm fork. If I'm riding around at 35% sag, I'm riding at 100mm of travel. If I hit the brakes and sudden I'm at 60% of the travel, I'm now down to just 60mm of travel.
> 
> ...


The geometry we all compare is for the bike completely unloaded on level ground. It's never like that when riding.

Dive has to happen, it's the physics of weight transfer. If it's getting unstable during that then you need more LSC on the front and possibly more LSR on the back.


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Well I have rolled the dice and purchased a Mezzer through CRC with the sale. I had some generous help from Tanman in another thread about what to do once they arrive. Many thanks.

Given the price, I’m not sure what will arrive. Did most first generation forks have issues? I’ll use the setup guide in this thread to check oil levels etc. Contacting Hayes with the serial number for when my fork was made has also been suggested.

Im only 60 kg, and have read I will need to modify the stack. Wondering modification would best suit my weight. Interested to hear what the recommendations are for lightweight riders. I’ll be dropping the travel to 160 mm.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Ripbro said:


> Well I have rolled the dice and purchased a Mezzer through CRC with the sale. I had some generous help from Tanman in another thread about what I to do once they arrive. Many thanks.
> 
> Given the price, I’m not sure what will arrive. Did most first generation forks have issues? I’ll use the setup guide in this thread to check oil levels etc. Contacting Hayes with the serial number for when my fork was made has also been suggested.
> 
> Im only 60 kg, and have read I will need to modify the stack. Wondering modification would best suit my weight. Interested to hear what the recommendations are for lightweight riders. I’ll be dropping the travel to 160 mm.


I ordered another set too. Such a good price and hard to pass on. I'm confident they'll be new stock but if not I'll update here.


----------



## danst1peak (Nov 9, 2020)

Ripbro said:


> Well I have rolled the dice and purchased a Mezzer through CRC with the sale. I had some generous help from Tanman in another thread about what to do once they arrive. Many thanks.
> 
> Given the price, I’m not sure what will arrive. Did most first generation forks have issues? I’ll use the setup guide in this thread to check oil levels etc. Contacting Hayes with the serial number for when my fork was made has also been suggested.
> 
> Im only 60 kg, and have read I will need to modify the stack. Wondering modification would best suit my weight. Interested to hear what the recommendations are for lightweight riders. I’ll be dropping the travel to 160 mm.


Me too, i'm 73kg in riding gear so might need some tweaks too. Will have to get reading!


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Just as a note for people wanting to upgrade from the VTT-6P -> MC2. Dougal responded earlier stating that damper end cap doesn't have a part number (and it doesn't come with the MC2 damper kit either) but it's needed for the conversion.

Dougal stated he made his own and can sell them. I contacted Manitou US tech support and they said even though that part doesn't have a number (probably be a good idea for them to sell it though, given VTT-6P -> MC2 upgradability is being promoted), they have a couple in house and will send me one.

Additionally, they stated that both the EXPERT and the PRO has the BOTTOM OUT BUMPER (*141-36713-K036*) but for some reason, *it's not displayed in the PRO exploded view diagram (but is displayed on the EXPERT exploded view diagram).

















*


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Ripbro said:


> Well I have rolled the dice and purchased a Mezzer through CRC with the sale. I had some generous help from Tanman in another thread about what to do once they arrive. Many thanks.
> 
> Given the price, I’m not sure what will arrive. Did most first generation forks have issues? I’ll use the setup guide in this thread to check oil levels etc. Contacting Hayes with the serial number for when my fork was made has also been suggested.
> 
> Im only 60 kg, and have read I will need to modify the stack. Wondering modification would best suit my weight. Interested to hear what the recommendations are for lightweight riders. I’ll be dropping the travel to 160 mm.



I am so close to pulling the trigger, but a few alarm bells have gone off for me.

I posted the question on CRC website asking what model year and if the lowers have bleed valves. My question was viewable on Sat and Sun (also someone else posted the same question). This morning both my question and the other one was wiped off their site like it never happened.

Then I went onto online chat with them asking the question. I was passed to two different representatives. The last one said unfortunately the information that he has does not list the model year, and he can't check the lowers for bleed valves as he is not at the warehouse. I get not being able to check, but they can't even give their support staff model year info? Yikes.

Please let me know what you get - if there are still some available at that price I will grab if it's the updated.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

It's a great price man, (much cheaper than what most of us paid for) - if for some reason it has the old lowers, you'll most likely end up with another one lower by contacting Manitou/Hayes.


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

I contacted customer service via chat, they also couldn’t confirm year. I asked about last stock date, he didn’t know. He did say they should be the newest version. It sounded like more of a guess.


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Manutou and Starbike have been great with service for me. Swapped two CSUs on mine because of creaking/popping, no other issues than wait time. The last CSU is on it's way per mail since I didn't want to send in the entire fork and be out of a fork for weeks if not months and told them I could swap it myself. Must say, overall great service from Starbike and Manitou.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

CRC is saying it is model 191-36235-A001

Now to figure out what that means


----------



## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

That's the current Manitou part# for a 27.5" Mezzer Pro


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm looking to try a stiffer compression stack. I'm thinking about try stack below, any thoughts?


Compression stack:
8 x 12 x .01 <- Adding this 12mm shim
8 x 17.5 x 0.1 
8 x 17.5 x 0.1
8 x 20 x 0.1


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

006_007 said:


> I am so close to pulling the trigger, but a few alarm bells have gone off for me.
> 
> I posted the question on CRC website asking what model year and if the lowers have bleed valves. My question was viewable on Sat and Sun (also someone else posted the same question). This morning both my question and the other one was wiped off their site like it never happened.
> 
> ...


Just had one delivered. January 2022 production date and bleed port lowers confirmed on these.
Mezzer Pro 29/180/44/Boost
191-35561-A101


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> Just had one delivered. January 2022 production date and bleed port lowers confirmed on these.
> Mezzer Pro 29/180/44/Boost
> 191-35561-A101


Holy smokes! I hope mine is the same


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> Just had one delivered. January 2022 production date and bleed port lowers confirmed on these.
> Mezzer Pro 29/180/44/Boost
> 191-35561-A101


What sort of box and kit did it come with? Are they aftermarket with all your travel spacers or OEM?


----------



## danst1peak (Nov 9, 2020)

Dougal said:


> What sort of box and kit did it come with? Are they aftermarket with all your travel spacers or OEM?


I've just had mine through - full retail box as far as I can see, same part number as above.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Dougal said:


> What sort of box and kit did it come with? Are they aftermarket with all your travel spacers or OEM?


Arrived in a regular retail box, everything normal inside, spacers and fender parts kits included as expected.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> Arrived in a regular retail box, everything normal inside, spacers and fender parts kits included as expected.


Dammit. 

Now I need to get a 29er version even though I don't have a 29er right now. 

Oh well, first part of new bike build now ordered.


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Can also confirm, they’re new!


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I don’t even need another fork but you know how it goes — too good of a deal to pass up. Free shipping, no less.

CRC’s price is actually lower than what I paid when I prodealed my current Mezzer Pro a couple years ago when COVID motivated me to part ways with REI. The Mezzer is the last thing I bought as I was walking out the door.

Such a good fork.
Such a good deal.
It just makes sense to have two. 
=sParty


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Manitou is having a site wide sale.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

My Mezzer Pro from CRC arrived today as well. 2022/01/20 date of manufacture. Also arrived in the standard Manitou retail box with the fender and spacer kits.


----------



## letsgethurt (May 7, 2020)

Anyone run a Mezzer at 150mm or even 140? I'd like to replace my 150mm Pike with something with a stiffer chassis and more adjustability and I'm finding myself drooling over the Mezzer every now and then, but I wonder if the HBO circuit would start engaging too soon in these shorter travel lengths. Sorry if this has been asked a thousand times, couldn't find anything with the search function nor browsing the two threads.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

letsgethurt said:


> Anyone run a Mezzer at 150mm or even 140? I'd like to replace my 150mm Pike with something with a stiffer chassis and more adjustability and I'm finding myself drooling over the Mezzer every now and then, but I wonder if the HBO circuit would start engaging too soon in these shorter travel lengths...


I've had one on an Ibis Ripley running at 140 for a couple of years now. It works great, I don't ever feel like I can't use all the travel and I have never felt a hard bottom out so it seems to be working as designed. I don't recall any of the guys on similar setups having any complaints about the HBO either. It's a remarkably versatile fork.


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Read through this thread, which took a while, I have some questions

Being lightweight (60kg), it sounds like I should loose the one of the 17 mm shims completely, correct?

I have a really old reverb bleed kit. It looks a bit different than the most recent version but I assume that will be ok?








I have some motorex 2.5wt for the damper bleed, will that be ok?

One concern I have pushing down on the unmounted fork, is that there is a bit of initial resistance, then it moves freely if you cycle it. Will greasing the air pistons and seals fix this or is there something else going on?

Any help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Ripbro said:


> Read through this thread, which took a while, I have some questions
> 
> Being lightweight (60kg), it sounds like I should loose the one of the 17 mm shims completely, correct?
> 
> ...



If you are going to bleed the damper,I would remove one shim like you said.

The reverb bleed kit should be fine,the threads on the bleed valves on the lowers have the same thread pitch,you can try there first to make sure.The Motorex oil is ok.

I had the same initial stiction when I got the fork.
After a few weeks it was barely noticeable .


----------



## BAWinters (May 11, 2021)

Also picked up a Mezzer Pro on the CRC sale, it's a Jan 2022 manufacture date with the updated lowers. 

Pretty pleased so far, support and stability through the chunk is a large step up from my 2020 36 w/ Grip 2. Small bump sensitivity is lacking quite a bit so far in comparison but I'll give it some time to run in before looking into it further, it also wasn't that noticeable at speed. Main chamber piston came well greased but IRT was pretty dry, after some fresh grease sensitivity was better but still not great so added a couple cc of oil to main and IRT chambers which helped, also greased the wipers.

Current settings after a couple rides, fork is set to 170mm and I'm 77kg for reference:
Main: 48 psi
IRT: 80 psi
LSC: 6
HSC: 4
R: 6

At these settings I was using more travel than I thought while riding, but front end height felt good in steep fast tech and I didn't feel it bottom on a large slab g-out or large drop. My 36 on these features always bottomed hard even with 80 psi and 2 tokens. On larger jumps where you need to carry speed I did find myself having to pull a bit harder than usual or sneak a pedal in to make it, so I may try to up the main chamber to ~50 and see how that goes for next ride. Overall though it is already an improvement.


----------



## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

Just got mine from CRC today and the damper side of the fork is covered in oil. Anyone else experience this? I’m having Totem flash backs……


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Kootenay rider said:


> Just got mine from CRC today and the damper side of the fork is covered in oil. Anyone else experience this? I’m having Totem flash backs……


Mine just arrived from CRC today. 

No oil on the outside. May pull it apart this weekend to see everything is good inside.

Has all the proper lowers and all the proper spare parts/spacers/fenders etc.

A great deal. Makes me wonder what Manitou is coming out with next!


----------



## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

006_007 said:


> Mine just arrived from CRC today.
> 
> No oil on the outside. May pull it apart this weekend to see everything is good inside.
> 
> ...


I’ll contact CRC and see what they recommend. It certainly seems like the damper cartridge is compromised though, can’t imagine why else. Bummer ….. re-living the Totem experience again!


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

My new Mezzer arrived today.
No oil gushing or anything -- happy to say everything seems to be in perfect order.

My Mezzer #1 is 51mm offset, this new arrival Mezzer #2 is 44mm offset.
To my knowledge I've never ridden a suspension fork that wasn't 51mm offset.
Will I notice much difference in the way this one handles compared to Mezzer #1?
Trying to decide which fork to put on which bike.
Thanks,
=sParty


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Sparticus said:


> My new Mezzer arrived today.
> No oil gushing or anything -- happy to say everything seems to be in perfect order.
> 
> My Mezzer #1 is 51mm offset, this new arrival Mezzer #2 is 44mm offset.
> ...


What travel and what's the head angle of each bike? Slackest head angle gets the 44mm offset imo.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> My new Mezzer arrived today.
> No oil gushing or anything -- happy to say everything seems to be in perfect order.
> 
> My Mezzer #1 is 51mm offset, this new arrival Mezzer #2 is 44mm offset.
> ...


I stumbled upon this article that might help you decide which way to go. I plan on installing my new 44 offset on my Canfield Lithium when it arrives since Canfield recommends the Lithium with a 44 offset.









HELM 29: Why 44mm Offset? - Cane Creek Cycling Components


Chatter about reduced offset forks is nothing new. PinkBike, UK’s Mountain Bike Rider, Bike Radar, and others have been talking about it for years. So why is offset a hot topic right now? WHAT IS FORK OFFSET? Fork offset is the measurement of how far the axle (dropouts) sit in front of the...




canecreek.com




.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Moosedriver said:


> I stumbled upon this article that might help you decide which way to go. I plan on installing my new 44 offset on my Canfield Lithium when it arrives since Canfield recommends the Lithium with a 44 offset.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks -- your advice fits perfectly since I've got a Lithium.
And that's the bike that my 51mm offset Mezzer is currently installed on.
It rides great this way. I'd be happy to leave it as it is.

I bought the new 44mm offset Mezzer because it was such a good deal and my OG AF GG Smash would like a new fork. 
The Smash's HA is steeper than the Lithium's (can't remember exact numbers but it's steeper, this I know.)

So now I'm entertaining the idea of moving the old 51 Mezzer to the Smash and installing the new 44 on the Lithium.
Sounds like that's the way to go (thank you, @springs.)
=sParty


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> Thanks -- your advice fits perfectly since I've got a Lithium.
> And that's the bike that my 51mm offset Mezzer is currently installed on.
> It rides great this way. I'd be happy to leave it as it is.
> 
> ...


No more Lyrik for the Smash? I think the Mezzer will work awesome on that bike.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Kootenay rider said:


> Just got mine from CRC today and the damper side of the fork is covered in oil. Anyone else experience this? I’m having Totem flash backs……





Kootenay rider said:


> I’ll contact CRC and see what they recommend. It certainly seems like the damper cartridge is compromised though, can’t imagine why else. Bummer ….. re-living the Totem experience again!


Each leg has 20ish CC of bath oil, a contaminated seal could let oil seep out in the time since it was boxed up. Damper oil probably would have leaked from the damper top cap. So 3 possible sources with multiple paths of escape.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Curveball said:


> No more Lyrik for the Smash? I think the Mezzer will work awesome on that bike.


Agreed. I've got a solid day of bikework in front of me...

Prep new 44mm offset Mezzer (semi-bath, Slikoleum, 214 quad-ring, etc.)
Remove 160mm Yari fork* from Trek Rail
Remove 170mm Lyrik from Smash
Install 170mm Lyrik on Rail
Remove current Mezzer (51mm offset) from Lithium
Install 51mm offset Mezzer on Smash
Install new 44mm offset Mezzer on Lithium
Tune ergos on all 3 bikes
Fortunately the weekend weather forecast calls for rain beginning Saturday afternoon and continuing through Sunday so I should have adequate forced garage time. 
Unfortunately my keg blew 3 days ago so I'll have to drink beer from a can.
=sParty

*The Yari has actually been a good fork as far as performance goes. I'd say it's equal to my Lyrik in this regard. My only problem with the Yari is that Trek cut the steerer waaaaaay too short so I've been forced to run a 90mm rise handlebar (not a typo) in order to get my bar the same height as my saddle. After removing the Yari, I'll probably service it, then sell it to someone shorter than me.  My philosophy: never cut a perfectly good steer tube.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> Agreed. I've got a solid day of bikework in front of me...
> 
> Prep new 44mm offset Mezzer (semi-bath, Slikoleum, 214 quad-ring, etc.)
> Remove 160mm Yari fork* from Trek Rail
> ...


Are you going to reduce the travel on the Mezzer #1 to 160 mm to better match the rear of the Smash? Or keep it the same as the 170 mm Lyrik?


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Curveball said:


> Are you going to reduce the travel on the Mezzer #1 to 160 mm to better match the rear of the Smash? Or keep it the same as the 170 mm Lyrik?


I’m going to leave it at 170mm for a ride or two to see how it feels. But now that I know how easy it is to reduce travel on the Mezzer (thank you), I won’t hesitate to drop it down if handling warrants doing so.

I bought the Manitou tool kit so I’ve got the deep, thin-walled 8mm socket. 
=sParty


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> Agreed. I've got a solid day of bikework in front of me...
> 
> Prep new 44mm offset Mezzer (semi-bath, Slikoleum, 214 quad-ring, etc.



Refresh my memory on the 214 quad ring? Are these an easy acquisition from somewhere? I have time as I have the new fork, do not have the bike to put it on yet......


----------



## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

Velodonata said:


> Each leg has 20ish CC of bath oil, a contaminated seal could let oil seep out in the time since it was boxed up. Damper oil probably would have leaked from the damper top cap. So 3 possible sources with multiple paths of escape.


Thanks - I need to adjust the travel so I'll have it apart and have a look. It was a thin layer and looked to come from the damper top cap but hard to tell - I'm guessing there was like 5ml of oil. First thing I checked was the rebound adjust and it's working with no strange noises but hard to really tell without mounting it. I wiped it clean and had it horizontal in the stand overnight and didn't see any more traces of oil. Looks like the best course of action is to mount it up and ride it.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

006_007 said:


> Refresh my memory on the 214 quad ring? Are these an easy acquisition from somewhere? I have time as I have the new fork, do not have the bike to put it on yet......


O-ring on the airshaft


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

006_007 said:


> Refresh my memory on the 214 quad ring? Are these an easy acquisition from somewhere? I have time as I have the new fork, do not have the bike to put it on yet......


I bought a pair of #214 quad-rings from @Blkdoutindustries here on MTBR.
Evidently he acquired a bunch of them and is helping his brothers & sisters out.
=sParty


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> I bought a pair of #214 quad-rings from @Blkdoutindustries here on MTBR.
> Evidently he acquired a bunch of them and is helping his brothers & sisters out.
> =sParty


Cheers 🍻


----------



## __U3__ (Oct 4, 2015)

What would you suggest for 90kg/200lbs rider kitted?

I'm not totally pleased with the fork over lots of roots, but maybe I'm to soft on comp shims?
Tried different settings, but I come back to the settings below

52-55psi/80-82psi
HSC 2-4 / LSC 6-8
LSR 6-8
Comp shims 1x 17,5mm + 1x 12mm
Reb shim version 2021

Bike is a Tyee with 64.5° HA and 170mm fork travel

What do you guys think?
Pressures are okay and I use the travel as it should be


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

__U3__ said:


> What would you suggest for 90kg/200lbs rider kitted?
> 
> I'm not totally pleased with the fork over lots of roots, but maybe I'm to soft on comp shims?
> Tried different settings, but I come back to the settings below
> ...


What travel and head angle of the bike?


----------



## __U3__ (Oct 4, 2015)

springs said:


> What travel and head angle of the bike?


I included the infos in my original post


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

__U3__ said:


> I included the infos in my original post


What’s the rebound set at?


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

Thanks Again for whoever recommended for Highline Cycles in Australia Queenland to press out my creaking stanchions. Got the forks back and 0 creaks!


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The link posted above for a 214 quad ring is $10 for a single piece.

Unless anyone can see a difference in spec, or has concerns with this brand, this link is qty 25 for $2 more...


Sterling Seal XP70BUN214X25 214 Quad Ring, Buna NBR, 70 D (Pack of 25) Sterling Seal XP70BUN214X25 214 Quad Ring, Buna NBR, 70 D (Pack of 25): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Anyone used this pump with their Mezzer? Does this swivel head have a 2 stage valve?








Also, can something like this be used to check/adjust pressures? I’m assuming it’s a no.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

The topeak gauge works fine with the IRT,but is useless for the main chamber.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

That fox pump doesn’t have a 2 stage head (assuming you mean the type that threads onto the valve, then has a separate threaded bit to actuate the valve), but I have used it and it works just fine. The head is short though, a little tough to thread onto the irt but not too bad.


----------



## Rem17 (7 mo ago)

Hello all, just got my mezzer and loving it although the travel spacers I recieved with it didn't sit flat. Hayes was great though and are sending new ones asap.

Anyway, been on the lookout for a digital pump. I'm aware of the 2 stage requirement but not sure if this pump has that feature. Would love some input









Honest Digital Shock Mini-Pump


Shopping for the Honest Digital Shock Mini-Pump? Learn more about the latest Tools and other Cycling at Blackburn




www.blackburndesign.com


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Rem17 said:


> Hello all, just got my mezzer and loving it although the travel spacers I recieved with it didn't sit flat. Hayes was great though and are sending new ones asap.
> 
> Anyway, been on the lookout for a digital pump. I'm aware of the 2 stage requirement but not sure if this pump has that feature. Would love some input
> 
> ...


I couldn’t figure that out either, so I passed on it. Here are a couple that I found or were suggested:

Giant mini 0








Control Mini 0 Shock Pump | Giant Bicycles Canada


SHOCK PRECISION.The Control Shock 0 is Giant’s premier digital shock pump with air release button to control air pressure more accurately. Giant shock pumps pro...




www.giant-bicycles.com





Cane creek digital








Cane Creek Digital Shock Pump


Shop & learn - Cane Creek DB Air Digital Shock Pump in the Shock Pump Collection - Gauge: Digital, PSI: 315, Part Number: BAD1816, : , The Cane Creek Double Barrel Air Digital Shock Pump offers a digital display and zero-loss air valve to provide the most accurate pressure on both forks and rear...




www.worldwidecyclery.com





My local shop could get the cane creek, so I ordered that. Fingers crossed it works well.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Rem17 said:


> Hello all, just got my mezzer and loving it although the travel spacers I recieved with it didn't sit flat. Hayes was great though and are sending new ones asap.
> 
> Anyway, been on the lookout for a digital pump. I'm aware of the 2 stage requirement but not sure if this pump has that feature. Would love some input
> 
> ...


I use it and it's great!


----------



## Rem17 (7 mo ago)

Cerberus75 said:


> I use it and it's great!


Thanks for letting me know, appreciate it.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Anyone with tips on how to use more travel on the fork without sacrificing midstroke? I'm running the IRT about 5psi under what the calculator in the 1st post here says (while main pressure is what is suggested). Fork feels great (though I wouldn't mind slightly more mid support) but find it hard to use more than 80% of travel and it ramps up pretty abruptly and really shoves back at me if I case a jump or land flat more so than other forks I've used. Any suggestions on how to make the end stroke less progressive while retaining mid-stroke?

edit: I'm running closed LSC, +1 HSC. These settings feel perfect to me except for the above issue


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tastik said:


> Anyone with tips on how to use more travel on the fork without sacrificing midstroke? I'm running the IRT about 5psi under what the calculator in the 1st post here says (while main pressure is what is suggested). Fork feels great (though I wouldn't mind slightly more mid support) but find it hard to use more than 80% of travel and it ramps up pretty abruptly and really shoves back at me if I case a jump or land flat more so than other forks I've used. Any suggestions on how to make the end stroke less progressive while retaining mid-stroke?
> 
> edit: I'm running closed LSC, +1 HSC. These settings feel perfect to me except for the above issue


What pressures are you running and how heavy are you?


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Dougal said:


> What pressures are you running and how heavy are you?


62/88 psi at 170mm (64.5 head angle), 220lb


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tastik said:


> 62/88 psi at 170mm (64.5 head angle), 220lb


Drop IRT pressure until you're getting full travel, the re-evaluate.

It could be you are riding quite rearwards on the bike.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Dougal said:


> Drop IRT pressure until you're getting full travel, the re-evaluate.
> 
> It could be you are riding quite rearwards on the bike.


not quite a bike park run here, but i dropped IRT to 62 to match the main pressure, opened up all compression (released air out the casting screws just in case). then went out of driveway and did some bunny hops slamming the front end down hard on the landing (i mean elbows bent and then slamming it into the ground while landing). Got 146/170mm travel (didn't feel any sort of hard bottoming, but felt the ramp up). Again not a real ride, but the pressure is quite low and I'm quite certain I'd easily cross 160mm doing that with that pressure on other forks.

edit: did use about 10mm more than before, and definitely feel the loss of support.

edit 2: nm maybe. released all air from irt and main just to bottom it. re-inflated to 62-92 and get almost 150 doing the front slam. one thing i noticed also is that the fork sags a couple mm unweighted after cycling (i have to pull it to fully extend, even after i opened the screws with it fully extended)..


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Finally got the fork installed and here are some observations from a new manitou user.

The fork was assembled well from the factory . All seals were greased, lowers had oil, and nothing was over torqued. I’ve never had a fork that was this easy to work on. A park FR-5.2 allowed me to get to the air spring, damper and IRT, no issues. What a treat using that versus flat ground sockets.

I reshimmed and bled the damper, with the generous help of OzIbis. He sent me videos overviewing the procedure. I edited them together and it helped immensely. He said it was ok to share, and I’m sure it will help others. Can’t thank him enough. Tanman, Kamper 11 and Dougal also helped me out with setup questions , big thanks to them as well.








Ripbro said:


> One concern I have pushing down on the unmounted fork, is that there is a bit of initial resistance, then it moves freely if you cycle it. Will greasing the air pistons and seals fix this or is there something else going on?


Switched out the quad seal, for the smaller size totally eliminated this problem. When pulling out the air spring (irt was already out) , you could tell there was considerable friction with the oem seal. It may have worn in, but it feels considerably better with the new seal.

I bought a cane creek digital pump that has a two stage head and it works very well.

We are dealing with flooding and our trails don’t handle water well, so I haven’t been able to give the fork a proper test. I can’t wait!


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

As a highly visual person I really appreciate a video like this as it is nice to see something before giving it a go.

Mad props to you and Ozlbis.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Does it make sense for me to put more lower leg oil on damper side than air side?

Something I've always noticed when servicing (done it at least 3x so far) is that much less oil drops out of the damper side leg than the air side when initially draining the oil and the foam ring feels much drier on the damper side than the air side. 

When I cycle the damper I few times, a bunch more oil drops out from inside the tube from between the damper and the inside of the leg (I'm assuming the bladder moving around pushes the oil out?). It takes a few pushes to get it all out. Comparatively on the air side, the lower leg oil doesn't really have anywhere to go but up the outside of the stanchions. Does it make sense then to put more oil on the damper side since there's possibly some wasted being held useless inside the stanchion?


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

tastik said:


> Does it make sense for me to put more lower leg oil on damper side than air side?
> 
> Something I've always noticed when servicing (done it at least 3x so far) is that much less oil drops out of the damper side leg than the air side when initially draining the oil and the foam ring feels much drier on the damper side than the air side.
> 
> When I cycle the damper I few times, a bunch more oil drops out from inside the tube from between the damper and the inside of the leg (I'm assuming the bladder moving around pushes the oil out?). It takes a few pushes to get it all out. Comparatively on the air side, the lower leg oil doesn't really have anywhere to go but up the outside of the stanchions. Does it make sense then to put more oil on the damper side since there's possibly some wasted being held useless inside the stanchion?


Best thing to do is actually modify the white cap at the bottom of that stanchion with the cassette tool teeth slots, I made every other one longer so the oil can drain back to the lowers, think there is a picture of it in this thread but can't find it


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

tastik said:


> Does it make sense for me to put more lower leg oil on damper side than air side?
> 
> Something I've always noticed when servicing (done it at least 3x so far) is that much less oil drops out of the damper side leg than the air side when initially draining the oil and the foam ring feels much drier on the damper side than the air side.
> 
> When I cycle the damper I few times, a bunch more oil drops out from inside the tube from between the damper and the inside of the leg (I'm assuming the bladder moving around pushes the oil out?). It takes a few pushes to get it all out. Comparatively on the air side, the lower leg oil doesn't really have anywhere to go but up the outside of the stanchions. Does it make sense then to put more oil on the damper side since there's possibly some wasted being held useless inside the stanchion?


This plastic ring needs to be modded to allow the oil to come back down. I've opened it up significantly more than in the pic to help this. I'm considering removing it completely if the current relief hasn't helped at the next service.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

springs said:


> This plastic ring needs to be modded to allow the oil to come back down. I've opened it up significantly more than in the pic to help this. I'm considering removing it completely if the current relief hasn't helped at the next service.
> View attachment 1988271


what's the purpose of that white piece anyhow? is there any downside to its removal? also, even if it's removed, won't perhaps a larger amount of oil go up the middle instead of up the sides on compression?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Without the white cap, wouldn‘t the damper rattle around and deflect under load…?


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

EatsDirt said:


> Without the white cap, wouldn‘t the damper rattle around and deflect under load…?


I don't think so, the bottom of the shaft is held at the base of the casting. And there's a big gap there with the white piece anyway so it's not really supporting the damper. Maybe it's to prevent damage to the stanchion on bottom out, possibly also helps oil go up the sides, but I don't know, that's what I'm wondering.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

If the damper is only held at the foot of casting and at the far other end at the top cap, seems to me there’s a lot of potential for deflection at full extension etc. 

Just a theory. I’m no expert.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tastik said:


> what's the purpose of that white piece anyhow? is there any downside to its removal? also, even if it's removed, won't perhaps a larger amount of oil go up the middle instead of up the sides on compression?


It's there to give the bottom-out bumpers enough area to impact on. Otherwise it's the sharp ring of a stanchion edge.


----------



## danst1peak (Nov 9, 2020)

I've got a few rides in on the fork now and am looking for a bit of advice on setup/changes. I wanted to ride it stock before making changes so I had a good comparison, I only did a travel change and check over before riding.

I'm 160lbs (73kg) in gear, have tried the recommended and page one settings so far. Bike is approx 65 degree head angle, 160mm travel. (Bird AM9 size ML).

On the terrain I was riding it felt good off the top in either configuration but as it progressed through the travel it became harsh pretty quickly. Terrain was very rocky and reasonably high speed, generally from baseball to baby head sized, a few bigger thrown in for good measure too.

I've got just under an inch of travel left, no huge hits so probably not far off, maybe expect a little more travel considering.

I've got the fork open now and will change the compression stack as per page one. Any other recommendations while I'm in there? Thanks


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

danst1peak said:


> I've got a few rides in on the fork now and am looking for a bit of advice on setup/changes. I wanted to ride it stock before making changes so I had a good comparison, I only did a travel change and check over before riding.
> 
> I'm 160lbs (73kg) in gear, have tried the recommended and page one settings so far. Bike is approx 65 degree head angle, 160mm travel. (Bird AM9 size ML).
> 
> ...


You are exactly the same weight as me and the HTA on our bikes isn’t far apart and I ride rocky terrain as well.
Install a 14x8x0.1 shim in place of the second 17.5mm shim.
46psi main
73psi IRT
HSC open
LSC 1 click from closed
Rebound 5 clicks from closed
Maxima 85-150 in the damper
21ml of oil in the lowers, I use a mix of 1 part Fox Gold 20w to 2 parts Mobil 1 0w-30.
I recon you’ll be pretty happy with that configuration. I am anyway.
I tried Supergliss 100 and it’s too thick and feels draggy in colder weather around 15 degrees C or below. Changed back to my oil mix and it was instantly noticeable and much better.


----------



## danst1peak (Nov 9, 2020)

OzIbis said:


> You are exactly the same weight as me and the HTA on our bikes isn’t far apart and I ride rocky terrain as well.
> <snip>
> I recon you’ll be pretty happy with that configuration. I am anyway.
> I tried Supergliss 100 and it’s too thick and feels draggy in colder weather around 15 degrees C or below. Changed back to my oil mix and it was instantly noticeable and much better.


Thanks *OzIbis, *I'll give that a go - I'm in the UK so Supergliss 100 would probably work for a day or two a year for me too. Did you try the 12mm shim too? What was the difference?


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

danst1peak said:


> Thanks *OzIbis, *I'll give that a go - I'm in the UK so Supergliss 100 would probably work for a day or two a year for me too. Did you try the 12mm shim too? What was the difference?


Yeah I’ve run it standard and with a 12mm a 14mm and a 15mm shim. The 12mm is much more plush than standard. It was bordering on being too plush for the feeling I like. I had to increase air pressures a bit after the 12mm went in. The 15mm was pretty nice and offered what I thought was the perfect amount of damping. I liked it so much that I was sure that was going to be the shim I stuck with. There was the odd occasion that the fork spiked a little more than I wanted but overall I was really happy with it. Curiosity got to me and I tried the 14mm. That was the shim I installed in the video I filmed to help someone out and it turned out to be the Goldy Locks shim for me. Not too plush not too spikey it was just right. There’s always going to be a situation where or a hit where the 12mm would be a little better and other times where the standard shim stack would be better but overall 98% of the time the 14mm is exactly what I want in there. It comes down to personal preference a fair bit really but from what you said about the terrain you ride on and your weight etc I recommend you install the 14mm and don’t use Supergliss 100 or Fox Gold unless you thin them out a little by mixing them. They are too thick, having a cST rating of 100 and 98.9 respectively from memory, unless you riding in temps around 30 degrees C or something most of the time. The oil mix I use works just fine in those temps anyway so I‘ll using it all year round like I previously was before I tried the Supergliss 100 to see what it was like.


----------



## danst1peak (Nov 9, 2020)

Thanks very much for the info - I'll get it built like that and see how it goes.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

What the quad seal replacement entail? I certainly like any stiction improvements that can be had with a $3 seal.


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

Ripbro said:


> I couldn’t figure that out either, so I passed on it. Here are a couple that I found or were suggested:
> 
> Giant mini 0
> 
> ...


The Giant one looks like it’s got double knurled knobs and look like it could be a 2 stage but boy is that expensive. 

I can confirm the CaneCreek one isn’t a 2 stage. Been using that on the Mezzer with no issues. Just got to make sure when adjusting or airing up, your connection to the main air valve is done up all the way. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

TanMan said:


> The Giant one looks like it’s got double knurled knobs and look like it could be a 2 stage but boy is that expensive.
> 
> I can confirm the CaneCreek one isn’t a 2 stage. Been using that on the Mezzer with no issues. Just got to make sure when adjusting or airing up, your connection to the main air valve is done up all the way.
> 
> ...


And that you remove it really quickly. As you are removing the head the positive will close first then the negative. Any excessive air that escapes from the negative while the head is being screwed off will stuff up the balance. With a dual stage head the hose remains pressurised even after you’ve unscrewed the first stage meaning the valve core closes off to both the positive and negative air springs while under equal pressure. It is virtually impossible to achieve that with a single stage pump. The loss may be minimal if you are really quick but in my mind there is a loss that’s unavoidable. Most people are chasing a nice plush fork and that’s the first thing that will be sacrificed once air gets lost out of the negative spring. On the other side of the coin if you don’t screw the head on properly or the pump you have doesn’t fully open the valve core you can pressurise the negative spring and not the positive resulting in a fork that will have no support and blow through the stroke.
On the Mezzer the safer and in my mind necessary choice is to use a dual stage head that’s long enough to open the valve core all the way if you want the best performance.


----------



## Rem17 (7 mo ago)

I'm hoping I can get some input on the installation of travel spacers. I installed the set that came with the fork and it appeared they were drilled at an angle to the top and bottom of the spacers would not sit flat on the upper head and don't sit flat to each other either. Hayes sent some new ones and I installed them and still have the same issue.

Ive checked that there is nothing in between etc.. 

It seems very straight forward to install these, slide one over the shaft, then the other and then bring them together. Am I missing something?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Rem17 said:


> I'm hoping I can get some input on the installation of travel spacers. I installed the set that came with the fork and it appeared they were drilled at an angle to the top and bottom of the spacers would not sit flat on the upper head and don't sit flat to each other either. Hayes sent some new ones and I installed them and still have the same issue.
> 
> Ive checked that there is nothing in between etc..
> 
> It seems very straight forward to install these, slide one over the shaft, then the other and then bring them together. Am I missing something?


Some are better than others. Maybe remove and refit with a different combination clipped together but I wouldn't worry too much amount about it.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

*wrong thread


----------



## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

Rem17 said:


> I'm hoping I can get some input on the installation of travel spacers. I installed the set that came with the fork and it appeared they were drilled at an angle to the top and bottom of the spacers would not sit flat on the upper head and don't sit flat to each other either. Hayes sent some new ones and I installed them and still have the same issue.
> 
> Ive checked that there is nothing in between etc..
> 
> It seems very straight forward to install these, slide one over the shaft, then the other and then bring them together. Am I missing something?


I had the same thing, thought it was odd and tried repositioning the spacers and using a different combination of. Didn’t think much about it after that though.


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

TanMan said:


> The Giant one looks like it’s got double knurled knobs and look like it could be a 2 stage but boy is that expensive.
> 
> I can confirm the CaneCreek one isn’t a 2 stage. Been using that on the Mezzer with no issues. Just got to make sure when adjusting or airing up, your connection to the main air valve is done up all the way.


confirmed with cane creek as well, it’s not a dual step head. Returned,as the shop advertised that it was.

I bought the giant branded pump. It was only $5 more CAD but I had to drive further to pick it up


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rotate the spacers and they'll sit flat against each other. They'll always be on a slight angle against the bumper and cap.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

If I wanted my fork about as firm with the HSC dial open as stock would be with 1 click or 1.5 clicks of HSC (for no pre-load), does adding 12mm (or a 15mm for the 1.5 click effect) on top of the 2 stock 17.5s sound reasonable?


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Looks like the new Giant Pump I bought is a dud. It leaks from the air release valve and won't hold pressure. An hour round trip to get back to the bike shop I purchased it from. Super frustrated


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Drop the lowers, pull out the air spring side piston, remove current o-ring, add new one, Slickoleum on new o-ring, reassemble.

Super easy, first 5 steps or so of the Mezzer air spring service guide.

I was a bit surprised as to how effective it actually is.



PHeller said:


> What the quad seal replacement entail? I certainly like any stiction improvements that can be had with a $3 seal.


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

regarding this air piston quad ring: 









Cane Creek Helm Air Piston Quad Ring 214 (24.99X3.53) | Nubuk Bikes


Cane Creek Helm Air Piston Quad Ring 214 (24.99X3.53) bei Nubuk Bikes kaufen ★★★★★ ✓ Bike Leasing ✓ Finanzierung ✓ Profi-Beratung ✓ Riesige Auswahl




www.nubuk-bikes.de





is this the same size as the "tuning" one for the Mezzer?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

reo-fahrer said:


> regarding this air piston quad ring:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Hi Gents, A pointed out Chainreaction cycles' deal on this fork at the moment and I am going to pull the trigger. after 5 years living with a RC2.0 RCT3 Pike I'm really looking forward to this.
This thread which Ive read up to Page 20 without owning the thing yet, has settled it for me.

My shockpump needs replacing, and I'd like to buy a new one from CRC since I cant seem to find a digital 2 stage shock available in South Africa. Can anyone advise if any of the pumps on CRC or my local shop will do?

There are two options that look like they may, but not digital. The RS shock on there does not seem to be dual stage.









Birzman Zacoo Mach Mini Shock Pump & Gauge | Chain Reaction


Birzman Zacoo Mach Mini Shock Pump & Gauge - Lowest Prices and FREE shipping available from The World's largest online bike store - Chain Reaction Cycles



www.chainreactioncycles.com













Topeak Pocket Shock DXG Shock Pump | Chain Reaction


Topeak Pocket Shock DXG Shock Pump - Lowest Prices and FREE shipping available from The World's largest online bike store - Chain Reaction Cycles



www.chainreactioncycles.com





I can also get these from my local shop:








ROCKSHOX Shock Pump Digital 300psi


Bike Addict is South Africa's favourite online bicycle shop catering to professional racers and novices alike. We offer leading brands of bikes in our online store from Merida, Silverback & Giant through to Cannondale & Scott new or second hand bicycles. Shop online at SA's best bicycle shop!




bike-addict.co.za





Does it look like this will do it? not having the fork yet its hard to know. 








TOPEAK Shuttle Digital In-Line Pressure Gauge


Easy-to-read digital gauge can be attached to a pump or used alone and provides accurate pressure readings up to 300psi / 20.7bar. Rotating head works with Presta, Schrader or Dunlop valves on bike / motorcycle / car tires, forks or shocks while the Thumb Lock lever ensures an airtight seal. The...




bike-addict.co.za





Appreciate the advice


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Get the Rockshox one. With a new head, it is good to go for a while. There are addon valves that can be used, like the one I use from Reset Racing.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

hssp said:


> Get the Rockshox one. With a new head, it is good to go for a while. There are addon valves that can be used, like the one I use from Reset Racing.











Reset Racing Air Port Micro Valve Adapter


Prevents uncontrolled pressure loss: the Air Port Micro Valve Adapter by Reset Racing The Reset Racing Air Port micro valve adapter prevents uncontrolled pressure loss when inflating and adjusting air shocks and forks. It enables precise and loss-fre




www.bike-components.de





This Guy?


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Edit. 

Watched on my phone and didn't see properly. 
I meant this guy








Buy rear shock small parts online | bike-components


Buy small parts for the rear shock of your mountain bike online at bike-components ✓ Fast Shipping ✓ Huge Selection ✓ Best Service




www.bike-components.de


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Just did the first overdue service, dropped the travel down from 180mm to 170mm, and installed the 214 seal. Fork feels really buttery, and smooth, with the initial stiction completely gone.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

JK-47 said:


> Just did the first overdue service, dropped the travel down from 180mm to 170mm, and installed the 214 seal. Fork feels really buttery, and smooth, with the initial stiction completely gone.


Any oil trapped up in damper side?


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

The dimensions are listed as the same on the ID and cross section diameters as far as the Cane Creek and Quad Ring, Black BUNA/NBR Nitrile Size: 214, Durometer: 70 Part Number: XP70BUN214 (Min Qty: 32)

I searched online and there is some variance in how different vendors list a 214 x-ring but all of them have the same dimensions, some vendors list in imperial vs metric, some round up the dimensions (say ID of .984 inch listed as 1 inch), but all of the samples I looked at match up so if that CC is a 214 x-ring/quad ring it should be good.

All things being equal I think that CC would be equivalent.



reo-fahrer said:


> regarding this air piston quad ring:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

EatsDirt said:


> Any oil trapped up in damper side?


Some oil oozed out when I cycled the dampener side, but that side stanchion wasn't dry after approx 70hrs. I did add 5ml to each side at 25hrs.


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

__U3__ said:


> What would you suggest for 90kg/200lbs rider kitted?
> 
> I'm not totally pleased with the fork over lots of roots, but maybe I'm to soft on comp shims?
> Tried different settings, but I come back to the settings below
> ...


91kg geared. Transition sentinel 63.6 HA 160mm fork.
85 irt
56 main
Hsc open
Lsc 3 from open
Rebound 4-5 from open.
Currently liking this setup. Will keep testing! Got a decent amount of unused travel as the local trails aren't demanding but the fork feels great so meh.


----------



## Dawidek (7 mo ago)

Hi All, first post here and new mezzer pro owner here. I'd like to say BIG THANK YOU for creating this thread I think I read 30 pages here before I got the fork, still a lot of reading left. I got the fork from chain reaction cycles with fork manufacturing date 01/2022. 
I have no idea what compression and rebound tune I have. The problem is that rebound is to slow when fully open. 
Thinking of opening the damper and play with shims. I never play with shims before but I have done charger damper bleed and lower leg service with no issues I should be fine with instructions from this thread.
Does removing 13x6x0.1 shim from rebound stack should sort out my issue? 
Where in Europe can I get shims for compression and rebound?
Should I get motorex 2.5 w oil for damper or should I look for some lighter oil that could speed up rebound
92 kg/202 lbs is by body weight 
Also when changed travel from 180 to 150mm I made bottom out indicator as recommended by CCS86 in first post, then I find that I only have about 143mm of travel the rest of travel is stuck in lower legs, I can pull it out but it's back to 143 after cycle the fork, is this normal?
I'm very impressed how the fork eats rocks and roots just not happy with rebound as my bike doesn't feel playfull as before. When I sort this out I will probably transfer mezzer to my longer travel bike for alps trip this year and more likely sell the rock shox zeb to get another mezzer for short travel bike. 
Any help much appreciated


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dawidek said:


> Hi All, first post here and new mezzer pro owner here. I'd like to say BIG THANK YOU for creating this thread I think I read 30 pages here before I got the fork, still a lot of reading left. I got the fork from chain reaction cycles with fork manufacturing date 01/2022.
> I have no idea what compression and rebound tune I have. The problem is that rebound is to slow when fully open.
> Thinking of opening the damper and play with shims. I never play with shims before but I have done charger damper bleed and lower leg service with no issues I should be fine with instructions from this thread.
> Does removing 13x6x0.1 shim from rebound stack should sort out my issue?
> ...


I also bought one of the forks from CRC with the same build date and it’s interesting you are finding the rebound too slow especially at your weight (we are similar weight). What pressures are you running?


----------



## Dawidek (7 mo ago)

springs said:


> I also bought one of the forks from CRC with the same build date and it’s interesting you are finding the rebound too slow especially at your weight (we are similar weight). What pressures are you running?


I'm runinig 150mm 
96 PSI in IRT
66 PSI in main
Rebound open
HSC open
LSC 2 from open

My pressure might be not accurate as my shock pump has weird gauge, running approx. 25% sag. Waiting for rock shox digital pump to arrive


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Dawidek said:


> Hi All, first post here and new mezzer pro owner here. I'd like to say BIG THANK YOU for creating this thread I think I read 30 pages here before I got the fork, still a lot of reading left. I got the fork from chain reaction cycles with fork manufacturing date 01/2022.
> I have no idea what compression and rebound tune I have. The problem is that rebound is to slow when fully open.
> Thinking of opening the damper and play with shims. I never play with shims before but I have done charger damper bleed and lower leg service with no issues I should be fine with instructions from this thread.
> Does removing 13x6x0.1 shim from rebound stack should sort out my issue?
> ...


I bought a pack of 50 12x8x0,1 shims for the compression revalve on Aliexpress for about 3€ including shipping.
Still got plenty of those.

Fun fact is that on my mezzer (MY21) the rebound is WAY to fast.
With 48/75 psi I'm at 3 clicks from fully closed.(170mm)
With 4 clicks or more the tire starts to bounce off the ground after compressing the fork.


----------



## Dawidek (7 mo ago)

Mikel Knight said:


> I bought a pack of 50 12x8x0,1 shims for the compression revalve on Aliexpress for about 3€ including shipping.
> Still got plenty of those.
> 
> Fun fact is that on my mezzer (MY21) the reborn is WAY to fast.
> ...


Yea I have seen some shims from aliaxpress but that will be probably 4 weeks for delivery.
I don't know what is it going with my damper it might be not bleeded properly or shims stuck I will open it as soon as I got oil. 
Thanks


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

springs said:


> I also bought one of the forks from CRC with the same build date and it’s interesting you are finding the rebound too slow especially at your weight (we are similar weight). What pressures are you running?


Agreed its perfect open on hero dirt and I want some pop. 1-2 clicks for chunky, dusty, slick ect. My wife is a lot lighter so it's too slow for her.


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

Dawidek said:


> Hi All, first post here and new mezzer pro owner here. I'd like to say BIG THANK YOU for creating this thread I think I read 30 pages here before I got the fork, still a lot of reading left. I got the fork from chain reaction cycles with fork manufacturing date 01/2022.
> I have no idea what compression and rebound tune I have. The problem is that rebound is to slow when fully open.
> Thinking of opening the damper and play with shims. I never play with shims before but I have done charger damper bleed and lower leg service with no issues I should be fine with instructions from this thread.
> Does removing 13x6x0.1 shim from rebound stack should sort out my issue?
> ...


Surprised your finding the rebound too slow, we're about the same weight and I'm finding 4-5 from open perfect. Hopefully you can check the pressures again with the new shock pump. Just a reminder to have the fork unweighted and pump irt first🤟


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

I wonder if bushing issues are behind the various rebound too slow complaints. Or perhaps people are running too low psi for their weight? Just thinking out loud here, but curious.

Is there a specific range of the rebound that’s too slow? Sag point? Deep travel?


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

I've posted about my lighter rebound tune experiments below. 

Can recommend replacing the 9x.1 with a 8x.15 to speed up rebound. 


https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...&share_fid=23347&share_type=t&link_source=app[/URL]

Manitou Mezzer: Owners Thread [Setup & Tech]

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

This past weekend, I had the chance to try out my new Mezzer Pro in Fernie British Columbia. 1600m climbed over a couple of days gave me some time to try to dial things in.

First off, Im a lightweight (138 lbs ride weight) and didn't think that I would pickup on something like stiffness, but I now know what people are talking about. The fork holds a line very well, and is really supportive. Its really fun to be able to push through corners, something that feels really different from my previous fork. It was also really fun trying to find the most rooty lines on the trail and blowing through them. I find that I am now carrying way more speed on the downhills than before. I am still getting use to that, and have come into a few corners way too hot.

After the end of day two, I have the following settings:

Main 30 PSI
IRT 52 PSI
HSC 1 from open
LSC 2 from closed
Rebound 5 from closed

I bottomed out a couple of times when I screwed up and landed flat, so I am thinking about bumping up the IRT to 55 to make it a bit more progressive. I'm running the HSC almost wide open, and don't know if I should run more HSC or more IRT to deal with bigger hits. I am loving the HBO, its so smooth, with no hard clunk like my diamond. My fork is MY22, and has one 17mm shim replaced with a 12mm. I also bled the damper with 2.5wt motorex. No idea what the stock rebound tune is, but the fork felt a lot better once I dialed in a bit more rebound dampening.

Would there be any point in removing the 12mm completely? Not sure if its better to run a softer stack and have more range for adjustments, or keep the HSC more open. I have always ran the HSC close to open but that always been more out of necessity for my weight.

Awesome first impressions, but I will continue to play setup. I still need to get to my normal section of trail and bracket it.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Gentlemen, my fork arrived this morning and I'm setting off on a 10 day vacation tomorrow.
I will atleast do the travel change and lowers bleed.
I know the rebound will be a bit slow and I'd want to remove a 17mm shim. I'd have to see if I want to do this in a rush.
Temperature is not currently an Issue (5-25C)
I see different ways damper oils on the thread, what is recommended?
I have 2.5 wt, Rockshox 3.0wt and 5w not sure about the temp rating but this is just for initial bleed to take on vacation with me.

Thanks gents.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Bosbefok said:


> Gentlemen, my fork arrived this morning and I'm setting off on a 10 day vacation tomorrow.
> I will atleast do the travel change and lowers bleed.
> I know the rebound will be a bit slow and I'd want to remove a 17mm shim. I'd have to see if I want to do this in a rush.
> Temperature is not currently an Issue (5-25C)
> ...


Why not just do the travel change and ride it? It could be perfect straight out of the box.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

I may have to go that route as I won't want to rush the job. With regards to the softer tune vs stock, I'm pretty obvious from the data captured on this thread I'm going to prefer the softer settup. The stock tune will only serve as a reference. I would however like to order the right thing for when im back from vac if it's extremely critical.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Ripbro said:


> This past weekend, I had the chance to try out my new Mezzer Pro in Fernie British Columbia. 1600m climbed over a couple of days gave me some time to try to dial things in.
> 
> First off, Im a lightweight (138 lbs ride weight) and didn't think that I would pickup on something like stiffness, but I now know what people are talking about. The fork holds a line very well, and is really supportive. Its really fun to be able to push through corners, something that feels really different from my previous fork. It was also really fun trying to find the most rooty lines on the trail and blowing through them. I find that I am now carrying way more speed on the downhills than before. I am still getting use to that, and have come into a few corners way too hot.
> 
> ...


I would run more IRT before more HSC. More HSC may affect plushness on chattery terrain as a pay off where IRT won’t come into it as much in those conditions but will enable the fork to handle those sorts of landings better when you are using more travel. That’s the path I would go down first anyway.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Bosbefok said:


> I may have to go that route as I won't want to rush the job. With regards to the softer tune vs stock, I'm pretty obvious from the data captured on this thread I'm going to prefer the softer settup. The stock tune will only serve as a reference. I would however like to order the right thing for when im back from vac if it's extremely critical.


I think the most important thing is to not over analyse everything in this thread. Riding styles, competence, levels of aggression and preferred feel are going to vary greatly so unless there is a huge miss in design and manufacture of the fork (there isn't ime and I'm on my 5th Mezzer) then no internet tune can really be perfect for you. A good example is one of the posts above from a 140lb rider who is only running the rebound 5 from fully closed vs the riders at 200lbs complaining about the rebound being too slow when fully open at much higher pressures on what is most likely the same rebound stack. 

Getting the bushings sized correctly is priority number 1 on any fork and should be done before any damping mods imo (unless you have a dyno in your shed in which case all bets are off!). This can make such a dramatic difference that it could completely change the direction you think you needed to tune the fork.

I've foun


----------



## MKSK (7 mo ago)

Hi guys. I just got my Mezzer Pro. I have found out that the HSC and LSC dials on my Mezzer do absolutely nothing  I can not feel any difference riding them fully open or fully closed. Rebound is working just fine. Am I doing something wrong or should I send the fork back for warranty? Thanks


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

MKSK said:


> Hi guys. I just got my Mezzer Pro. I have found out that the HSC and LSC dials on my Mezzer do absolutely nothing  I can not feel any difference riding them fully open or fully closed. Rebound is working just fine. Am I doing something wrong or should I send the fork back for warranty? Thanks


The dials usually make a noticeable difference on the Mezzer so something isn’t right I’d be getting touch with them. They are pretty good to deal with


----------



## MKSK (7 mo ago)

Thank you Ozlbis. I bought it from bike discount so I will send it back to them. Otherwise the fork is really good and I would like to keep it. I noticed a bit of friction at the beginning of the stroke so I ordered a new qr214 air piston seal and also thinking of bushing burnishing.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

MKSK said:


> Hi guys. I just got my Mezzer Pro. I have found out that the HSC and LSC dials on my Mezzer do absolutely nothing  I can not feel any difference riding them fully open or fully closed. Rebound is working just fine. Am I doing something wrong or should I send the fork back for warranty? Thanks


I was riding a Fox 36 grip2 before the mezzer and had the same feeling when I got the fork.

The adjustement range on the mezzer is not as big as on the grip2,were closing LSC and HSC almost locks the fork.

It took me some time to feel/understand how it works.


----------



## MKSK (7 mo ago)

Thank you Mikel Knight. I will absolutely give it more try. The Mezzer on my bike replaced Fox 36 Grip2 Factory which I still have and I'm comparing it to that 36. I will try it better today and let you guys know. Thank you


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

Having my 2nd set of Mezzer LE's tuned by NSR. My first set was done the RRT by Rulezman. Looking forward to comparing the two sets.

Before burnishing
Manitou Mezzer Pro LE - Pre Bushing Burnish
After burnishing








Manitou Mezzer Pro LE - Post Bushing Burnish







youtube.com


----------



## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

I have a bag of 30 of the 214 quad rings linked above so if anyone wants one, I can offer them for $2 including postage in the USA.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I finally got around to burnishing my bushings. So now have a 214 air spring seal, 14mm shim replacing one of the 17.5 shims. Totally different fork from out of the box.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

This whole burnishing business for the bushings starts to sound really interesting and compelling. Is there anyone in Southern Oregon or NorCal who has the tools and know-how to do this for the Mezzer?


----------



## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

I'm aware the minimum specified travel for the 29" fork is 140mm, is it possible to drop to 130 at all? i know that's well withinin Mattoc territory for travel, but it's so hard to find a set of Mattoc Pro's in the UK atm, and Mezzers seem to be available from time to time


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Alan1977 said:


> I'm aware the minimum specified travel for the 29" fork is 140mm, is it possible to drop to 130 at all? i know that's well withinin Mattoc territory for travel, but it's so hard to find a set of Mattoc Pro's in the UK atm, and Mezzers seem to be available from time to time


It is possible - you just need to acquire an extra travel adjust spacer is not included to go that low.


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

where did you pick up the 14mm shim? I am wanting to do the same updates you just made



Cerberus75 said:


> I finally got around to burnishing my bushings. So now have a 214 air spring seal, 14mm shim replacing one of the 17.5 shims. Totally different fork from out of the box.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

bigdrunk said:


> where did you pick up the 14mm shim? I am wanting to do the same updates you just made


I'll pm ya. I got a few of them left.


----------



## Rem17 (7 mo ago)

EdSawyer said:


> I have a bag of 30 of the 214 quad rings linked above so if anyone wants one, I can offer them for $2 including postage in the USA.


I'd be interested in 2 or 3 if you'd be willing to mail them to Canada.


----------



## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

Canada should be no problem! Feel free to PM


----------



## Rem17 (7 mo ago)

EdSawyer said:


> Canada should be no problem! Feel free to PM


Will do once I've posted enough times to be granted the privileged 😂


----------



## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

006_007 said:


> It is possible - you just need to acquire an extra travel adjust spacer is not included to go that low.


done, grabbed the ebay set i had my eye on, needing a service..
granted.. ive just remembered how hard it is to get manitou spares in the UK also. so on the fence where/how to get spacers now


----------



## maclgallant (Feb 11, 2006)

Hey Guys, 

brand new mezzer pro(latest gen)
Had my local mechanic reduce the travel to 160mm and I noticed some oil around the base of the dorado air spring Schaefer valve on the bottom. I wiped it off and ill recheck tomorrow morning but could be the cause?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Alan1977 said:


> done, grabbed the ebay set i had my eye on, needing a service..
> granted.. ive just remembered how hard it is to get manitou spares in the UK also. so on the fence where/how to get spacers now


RH Suspension is probably your best bet over there.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

maclgallant said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> brand new mezzer pro(latest gen)
> Had my local mechanic reduce the travel to 160mm and I noticed some oil around the base of the dorado air spring Schaefer valve on the bottom. I wiped it off and ill recheck tomorrow morning but could be the cause?


Probably oil on the foot during reassembly.


----------



## maclgallant (Feb 11, 2006)

Hey Dougal, I just checked and its holding air, hasn't dropped PSI at all in 24 hours. So I shouldn't be concerned with a little oil around the schraeder assembly after re-assembling? 

I've wiped it down twice in 2 hours and I can see a minuscule amount of oil(very small) already.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

maclgallant said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> brand new mezzer pro(latest gen)
> Had my local mechanic reduce the travel to 160mm and I noticed some oil around the base of the dorado air spring Schaefer valve on the bottom. I wiped it off and ill recheck tomorrow morning but could be the cause?


There is a seal on the bottom of the air shaft that seals against the inside of the lower. If it continues to leak it’s possible/likely it has been slightly damaged during disassembly or reassembly. This can happen if the air shaft isn’t held still while tightening the base nut. If you just try and keep tightening the base nut without holding the shaft to prevent it spinning that will cause the seal on the bottom of the shaft to spin against the inside of the lower possibly putting small gouges in the seal. Or there could be a little piece of grit or something between the lower and the seal. Either way if it keeps leaking you will have to remove the lowers and inspect the seal. You’ll need a 4mm flat end socket to hold the shaft still on the air side and an Allen key on the damper side. If you have them it’s an easy job.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

maclgallant said:


> Hey Dougal, I just checked and its holding air, hasn't dropped PSI at all in 24 hours. So I shouldn't be concerned with a little oil around the schraeder assembly after re-assembling?
> 
> I've wiped it down twice in 2 hours and I can see a minuscule amount of oil(very small) already.


Check the foot nut is snug.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

OzIbis said:


> There is a seal on the bottom of the air shaft that seals against the inside of the lower. If it continues to leak it’s possible/likely it has been slightly damaged during disassembly or reassembly. This can happen if the air shaft isn’t held still while tightening the base nut. If you just try and keep tightening the base nut without holding the shaft to prevent it spinning that will cause the seal on the bottom of the shaft to spin against the inside of the lower possibly putting small gouges in the seal. Or there could be a little piece of grit or something between the lower and the seal. Either way if it keeps leaking you will have to remove the lowers and inspect the seal. You’ll need a 4mm flat end socket to hold the shaft still on the air side and an Allen key on the damper side. If you have them it’s an easy job.


The base nut is meant to be held and the shaft tightened/rotated using the hex key.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

springs said:


> The base nut is meant to be held and the shaft tightened/rotated using the hex key.


I know that’s what they say to do but I spin the nut because because I don’t like the idea of either the seal spinning against the lower or the shaft against the seal depending on which one spins easier. I’ve had my lowers off a tonne and yet to have a leak.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

I got my mezzer back last week with a new CSU.
Yesterday I swapped the main piston 215 quad ring for an 214 o-ring,and the 122 IRT piston O-ring for a smaller 121 O-ring.
Let's see if that works.

The fork wasn't greased at all,and there were like 4ml of oil in each leg...
Not so happy about that,I wish they would send directly the new CSU to me.

If you are in europe,I think this is one of the best seal suppliers around.
Plenty of stock,you can buy just 1 O-ring if you wan't,and shipping is cheap.


----------



## Rem17 (7 mo ago)

I've had my fork open a few times now and lost a bit of oil in the process, thinking ahead to doing a lower leg service soon and considering WPL 5wt shock oil. Any feedback on this product? 









High Performance Suspension Oil


WPL Bike Suspension Oil: A high-performance, premium quality suspension oil developed with professional mountain bike athletes and mechanics in Whistler, BC. Designed for use in both forks and shocks, triple-ester technology protects internal parts against wear and reduces friction. Our...




wplbike.com


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

Has anyone printed a shaft clamp for the air shaft/damper and would share it? Or the dimensions the clamp should have?
Has probably been posted a while ago..

Also wanted to swap the o-ring on air spring cap that slides on the shaft but couldn't figure out how to remove it. Remove the shraddr valve or unscrew air poison?

Thanks,
Roman

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

romulin said:


> Has anyone printed a shaft clamp for the air shaft/damper and would share it? Or the dimensions the clamp should have?
> Has probably been posted a while ago..
> 
> Also wanted to swap the o-ring on air spring cap that slides on the shaft but couldn't figure out how to remove it. Remove the shraddr valve or unscrew air poison?
> ...


Air shaft is 10mm, the cheapest clamp in that size is a vorsprung one: Luftkappe 10 mm Shaft Clamp (Vorsprung) | Shockcraft

You mean the IRT assembly at the top of the fork? Just undo the bolt in the end of the shaft and one end will unscrew. For the air-shaft at the bottom you need to clamp the 10mm shaft and remove the shaft foot.


----------



## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

Hi all:
Have had my Mezzer for about a month - have been fine tuning it and trying different settings but having a bit of an issue dialing it in perfectly. Took the whole thing apart to lube, etc. Noticed the damper shaft was doing this. Seem normal?? Mezzer Damper Video

thanks!


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

pianoman84d said:


> Hi all:
> Have had my Mezzer for about a month - have been fine tuning it and trying different settings but having a bit of an issue dialing it in perfectly. Took the whole thing apart to lube, etc. Noticed the damper shaft was doing this. Seem normal?? Mezzer Damper Video
> 
> thanks!


Yes that’s normal. When it’s located in the lowers once it’s assembled it won’t move like that.


----------



## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

OzIbis said:


> Yes that’s normal. When it’s located in the lowers once it’s assembled it won’t move like that.


Thank you


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

pianoman84d said:


> Thank you


Tell us your weight, suspension travel you have the fork set at, the type of terrain you generally ride and what bike you have and the members on here will give you set up advice that is pretty much guaranteed to be pretty much on the money. It will most likely save you a lot of stuffing around.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I highly recommend burnishing the bushings before opening the damper. Especially if you think the rebound is too slow.


----------



## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

OzIbis said:


> Tell us your weight, suspension travel you have the fork set at, the type of terrain you generally ride and what bike you have and the members on here will give you set up advice that is pretty much guaranteed to be pretty much on the money. It will most likely save you a lot of stuffing around.


I’m 220 riding weight, running 170 fork on a Guerrilla Gravity Gnarvana. Experimented with a bunch of settings but can’t seem to get it right on smaller/medium repeated hits. Feels amazing on bigger hits. I’m in Colorado. Welcome thoughts on pressure / settings. Currently running:

IRT: 96
Main: 62
Rebound: 4 out
LSC: 5 out
HSC: 2 out


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

pianoman84d said:


> I’m 220 riding weight, running 170 fork on a Guerrilla Gravity Gnarvana. Experimented with a bunch of settings but can’t seem to get it right on smaller/medium repeated hits. Feels amazing on bigger hits. I’m in Colorado. Welcome thoughts on pressure / settings. Currently running:
> 
> IRT: 96
> Main: 62
> ...


Maybe try 
Main. 57
IRT. 94
LSC. 1 from closed 
HSC. 2 from closed
Rebound is a feel preference thing for me. I run it as fast as possible without the front end skipping wide on bumpy corners.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

pianoman84d said:


> I’m 220 riding weight, running 170 fork on a Guerrilla Gravity Gnarvana. Experimented with a bunch of settings but can’t seem to get it right on smaller/medium repeated hits. Feels amazing on bigger hits. I’m in Colorado. Welcome thoughts on pressure / settings. Currently running:
> 
> IRT: 96
> Main: 62
> ...


I’m 215 with an Expert and IRT. I’m at 60/90, 170mm, rebound 5-6 out, compression full open. First service and 214 seal, made noticeable improvement on small bumps


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Cerberus75 said:


> I highly recommend burnishing the bushings before opening the damper. Especially if you think the rebound is too slow.


Sounds a bit Extreme? 
I have one ride only on my new Mezzer Pro. I am waiting for a Giant Pro shock pump with dual stage head, as per recommendations here, so wont comment on air settings yet. However, the bushings feel OK, I think I will wait until I've done more riding before sizing. Rebound is definitely on the slow side, and rode low speed compression between 3 from out and all the way open. (HSC open)(154lbs)

I just want to confirm that I'm reading the instructions on P1 correctly:
By the damper mods, It says "Remove one 13 x 6 x 0.1 shim for MY2021". 
I just want to understand, does that mean I should remove that shim, or was it already removed for the 2021 forks. 

Thanks


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

It is already gone on MY2021 forks. You remove it to match that spec.

I removed the extra shim on mine, have good bushing fit, and still run my rebound adjuster within 1-2 clicks of open. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

CCS86 said:


> It is already gone on MY2021 forks. You remove it to match that spec.
> 
> I removed the extra shim on mine, have good bushing fit, and still run my rebound adjuster within 1-2 clicks of open.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


I have a MY21 fork and my rebound is VERY fast,I haven't checked my rebound shim stack yet.
The compression side had two 17,5mm shims.Swapped one for a 12mm.
With 46/70psi I'm at 3 clicks from closed.
Anything past 4 clicks makes the tire bounce of the ground after compressing the fork.
To me it seems unthinkable riding 2-3 clicks from open.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Mikel Knight said:


> I have a MY21 fork and my rebound is VERY fast,I haven't checked my rebound shim stack yet.
> The compression side had two 17,5mm shims.Swapped one for a 12mm.
> With 46/70psi I'm at 3 clicks from closed.
> Anything past 4 clicks makes the tire bounce of the ground after compressing the fork.
> To me it seems unthinkable riding 2-3 clicks from open.


Garage rebound testing doesn't mean anything to me. It's all about on trail for me. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

Mikel Knight said:


> I got my mezzer back last week with a new CSU.
> Yesterday I swapped the main piston 215 quad ring for an 214 o-ring,and the 122 IRT piston O-ring for a smaller 121 O-ring.
> Let's see if that works.
> 
> ...



seems like all the Mezzer owners bought the available stock from ir-dichtungstechnik  at least the BS214 X-ring in nbr70 aren't listet at all atm. 

after reading some technical datasheets for Viton seals, are there any reasons not to use Viton x-rings instead of NBR?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

CCS86 said:


> Garage rebound testing doesn't mean anything to me. It's all about on trail for me.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


True,in fact my actual garage setting originated on the trails.

But seriously,I wonder how can the rebound tune be so inconsistent on mezzer forks.

I'm curious to find out what kind of shim stack I got on my rebound.



reo-fahrer said:


> seems like all the Mezzer owners bought the available stock from ir-dichtungstechnik  at least the BS214 X-ring in nbr70 aren't listet at all atm.
> 
> after reading some technical datasheets for Viton seals, are there any reasons not to use Viton x-rings instead of NBR?


I used an O-ring instead of an x-ring,so far so good.
To me,if they last at least 6 months trouble free,I would say that this upgrade is a must.
Stiction is noticeably less,better than I expected honestly.
You can use viton (fkm),no problem.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Mikel Knight said:


> True,in fact my actual garage setting originated on the trails.
> 
> But seriously,I wonder how can the rebound tune be so inconsistent on mezzer forks.
> 
> ...




I don't think we have any evidence that the rebound tune is inconsistent. People are inconsistent.

I ran mine at too slow of a setting for a long time. If you are used to that, it will feel weird at first when you speed it up. But after you get used to it, the traction is better, the recovery from repeated bumps is better, the balance when jumping is better, etc. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I thought the rebound needed to be totally reshimmed until I burnished the bushings.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> I don't think we have any evidence that the rebound tune is inconsistent. People are inconsistent.
> 
> I ran mine at too slow of a setting for a long time. If you are used to that, it will feel weird at first when you speed it up. But after you get used to it, the traction is better, the recovery from repeated bumps is better, the balance when jumping is better, etc.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


So just to confirm, I have had very little time on the fork, only did the travel adjust to 160mm and check lower oil levels (all fine) I spent 30 minutes getting the setup right before going for my one and only ride as I am away again for business at the moment.
So, the air, as I said I am waiting for a digital dual stage shock. The pressures your calculator spat out gave me 73/45. Which felt way to firm off the top. Not Knowing what to do I dropped the IRT to 50 before I could consider it OK to go for a ride. (Negative spring must have leaked out due to shock pump, but I will sort that out with new pump)

My rebound was definitely not to fast, definitely not bouncing I could live with it, but the reason I got this fork was so I could make the changes I needed. Once I sorted out the air spring I will consider my options. Maybe mine still needs a 13 x 6 x 0.1 shim removed, although the date of manufacture is 2022/01/20

Just a question, was it my imagination or does the compression still effect the rebound slightly? 
I will also remove the one 8 x 17.5 x 0.1 compression shim. As I'm running all the clickers open, or close to.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Bosbefok said:


> So just to confirm, I have had very little time on the fork, only did the travel adjust to 160mm and check lower oil levels (all fine) I spent 30 minutes getting the setup right before going for my one and only ride as I am away again for business at the moment.
> So, the air, as I said I am waiting for a digital dual stage shock. The pressures your calculator spat out gave me 73/45. Which felt way to firm off the top. Not Knowing what to do I dropped the IRT to 50 before I could consider it OK to go for a ride. (Negative spring must have leaked out due to shock pump, but I will sort that out with new pump)
> 
> My rebound was definitely not to fast, definitely not bouncing I could live with it, but the reason I got this fork was so I could make the changes I needed. Once I sorted out the air spring I will consider my options. Maybe mine still needs a 13 x 6 x 0.1 shim removed, although the date of manufacture is 2022/01/20
> ...


IRT pressure has zero impact on spring rate off the top.

With your pump fully connected to the positive chamber, if you can't push the fork all the way through the stroke relatively easily, then the negative chamber isn't being correctly filled.

I wouldn't make any judgments or changes to damping until you get all the air chambers properly filled. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Apologies if its been covered, but is there any use trying slightly lighter weight oil to speed the rebound and compression up slightly? Or will that have other undesired effects? I don't mind the shim work, I'm just asking out of curiosity.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> IRT pressure has zero impact on spring rate off the top.
> 
> With your pump fully connected to the positive chamber, if you can't push the fork all the way through the stroke relatively easily, then the negative chamber isn't being correctly filled.
> 
> ...


Not sure what It did, but It made it slightly softer off the top, could it not have an effect on the main chamber, as the IRT chamber will not push against it as hard causing it to "lose pressure" to the IRT side? No point debating really, I know something is not right and will comment once I have the right shock pump.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Bosbefok said:


> Not sure what It did, but It made it slightly softer off the top, could it not have an effect on the main chamber, as the IRT chamber will not push against it as hard causing it to "lose pressure" to the IRT side? No point debating really, I know something is not right and will comment once I have the right shock pump.


I should say, "when set correctly" . Yes, if you air the IRT down to almost or below main chamber pressure it will move much sooner than it should and lower main pressure. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Just asking this again, is there any use trying slightly lighter weight oil to speed the rebound and compression up slightly? Or will that have other undesired effects? I don't mind the shim work, I'm just asking out of curiosity.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Bosbefok said:


> Just asking this again, is there any use trying slightly lighter weight oil to speed the rebound and compression up slightly? Or will that have other undesired effects? I don't mind the shim work, I'm just asking out of curiosity.


You can use thicker or thinner oils to change the feel. I use Maxima 85-150 in my damper and find it’s a good viscosity and doesn’t fade. I’m 73kg ready to ride and wouldn’t really go any thinner and don’t feel the need to. That is kind of a Band-Aid fix though if something else isn’t right in the set up. Get the air right with an accurate dual stage head pump first and then start to experiment with different configurations if you still aren’t happy. In stock trim I was blown away how good this fork was even at my relatively light weight and it’s now even better with a compression stack modification. It’s very air sensitive so that’s where I think your initial focus needs to be. You need to find the balance between the Main and IRT that suits your riding. Dumping a heap of air out of the IRT isn’t the way to make the fork plush that just ruins the progression and support that this fork is so good at providing.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

OzIbis said:


> You can use thicker or thinner oils to change the feel. I use Maxima 85-150 in my damper and find it’s a good viscosity and doesn’t fade. I’m 73kg ready to ride and wouldn’t really go any thinner and don’t feel the need to. That is kind of a Band-Aid fix though if something else isn’t right in the set up. Get the air right with an accurate dual stage head pump first and then start to experiment with different configurations if you still aren’t happy. In stock trim I was blown away how good this fork was even at my relatively light weight and it’s now even better with a compression stack modification. It’s very air sensitive so that’s where I think your initial focus needs to be. You need to find the balance between the Main and IRT that suits your riding. Dumping a heap of air out of the IRT isn’t the way to make the fork plush that just ruins the progression and support that this fork is so good at providing.


Sure, my initial setup is definitely not how I want it, and not rave worthy, as people have been doing. I know its because of the pump, and ive been tiped off about it by users on here. I'm waiting for it. 
GIANT Control Mini Shock 0 Pump

I was just thinking about this issue on the plane back last night, as I was reading through pages 20-30 on this thread at least 3 more users asked about the air setup being weird, and was it not for tips from users on here, they would probably have walked away disappointed. I imagine there are thousands out there that do not know about this forum, and the great help from members. My point is, *Manitou really should ship this fork with a dual stage pump!*

Thanks for answering the oil question. It is mainly aimed as a solution for the rebound which still felt a little slow. I will definitely ride it with the right pressures first as the rebound should speed up a little when I ride the higher IRT pressures.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Bosbefok said:


> Sure, my initial setup is definitely not how I want it, and not rave worthy, as people have been doing. I know its because of the pump, and ive been tiped off about it by users on here. I'm waiting for it.
> GIANT Control Mini Shock 0 Pump
> 
> I was just thinking about this issue on the plane back last night, as I was reading through pages 20-30 on this thread at least 3 more users asked about the air setup being weird, and was it not for tips from users on here, they would probably have walked away disappointed. I imagine there are thousands out there that do not know about this forum, and the great help from members. My point is, *Manitou really should ship this fork with a dual stage pump!*
> ...


That looks pretty much exactly like the one I’ve got. 
You’ve probably already read this but when you do set the pressures make sure the front wheel is off the ground or at least doesn’t have any weight on it. Set the IRT first then the main and pull down on the lowers while the pump is still fully connected. If you miss any of the above steps it’s very likely either your pressures or travel won’t be correct and the fork won’t feel right.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Is there a trick to getting the damper rod from turning while trying to screw the foot nut on? I couldn't even get mine hand tightened properly (with the socket) before it rotates the damper rod. I've tried giving the fork lower a couple of knocks with compression closed. But didn't really work. I noticed a drop of lower oil hanging from the rebound knob when I went to my bike now.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Bosbefok said:


> Is there a trick to getting the damper rod from turning while trying to screw the foot nut on? I couldn't even get mine hand tightened properly (with the socket) before it rotates the damper rod. I've tried giving the fork lower a couple of knocks with compression closed. But didn't really work. I noticed a drop of lower oil hanging from the rebound knob when I went to my bike now.


Look carefully,there is a slot for a 8mm allen key to hold the damper shaft in place.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Mikel Knight said:


> Look carefully,there is a slot for a 8mm allen key to hold the damper shaft in place.


😃 Darn, now that is quite obvious isn't it! Thanks


----------



## Threedspeed (6 mo ago)

croakies said:


> I got it my tool from oliver at liquid labs. I just told him it's for my mezzer. Seems he recommends a +.07 so I'm assuming I got a 37.07.
> 
> I have 2 mezzers, and one of them always felt smoother than the other. I almost could not get the die through my "less smooth" pair. It was backbreaking sweaty work getting that die past haha. Now both Mezzers are equally as buttery.
> 
> ...


Was reading thread and saw post. 

@croakies- I’m interested in burnishing my Mezzer. Located in Bay Area. Do you still have tool?

I would be willing to rent/pay fee.
Don’t know how to private message on this forum, but if you see this send me a message.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

fizzywater said:


> Yep, definitely listen to Dougal’s advice. I am glad I did. Am 150 out of the shower running the Mezzer at 160 on my Druid. Current preferred settings: 35/55; LSC fully closed and HSC 3 clicks from closed. Love it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So While I am still waiting for my shockpump, and my fork is not feeling terrible (having had to improvise on the air settings) I had time to do a proper ride yesterday. Lots of rocky chunk, small step downs and square edge type large rocks as we have that aplenty here in South Africa. After my first downhill running it wide open, I decided to try the above (opposite) way of riding the compression, which was as far as I could pick up, LSC all the way closed.

(I think my air pressures was still a bit to high? Fizzywater" above was running it much lower, I can almost not imagine that not feeling to soft, but let me try it first, and remember, I'm improvising on the air spring side.)

It runs bloody good! I was well chuffed. Comparing to my Pike, which worked best when the LSC was fully closed as well (Thanks Dougal), but would eat my hands on lower frequency repetitive stuff like braking bumps. While riding the rocky service road back to my vehicle, I did notice the Mezzer was a bit uncomfortable on that surface and speed at that setting, and when opening the LSC up, it made for a more comfortable experience, and on long marathon style rides I may prefer this setting. It did however feel more "wallowy",but the higher IRT chamber may sort a bit of that out.

When I got home I measured the used travel. I only used 115mm out of 160mm, but I hardly noticed. This must be what proper suspension feels like!😃 Lots of options though..as I'm still to get the air spring sorted, and open the damper up. 

@Dougal do you have a "formula" for a starting point for the air spring that you use for this way of setting it up?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Again, step one is to get all 3 air chambers properly filled. If you are getting by until then, great. But no one has a formula for an improperly aired fork. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rem17 (7 mo ago)

Hello all, I've got my mezzer set up pretty well with air pressures and running the compression settings wide open. but I'm finding that the compression adjustments aren't doing anything if I close them up. Even with both HSC and LSC closed there is hardly any perceptible difference in the feel. From reading this thread and reviews of the mezzer it sounded like closing the lsc all the way would be similar to closing a lock out in a rear shock. Would it be fair to say that if I close all the compression settings I would be able to notice a difference just pushing on the fork in a parking lot type test?


----------



## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

yes


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Rem17 said:


> Hello all, I've got my mezzer set up pretty well with air pressures and running the compression settings wide open. but I'm finding that the compression adjustments aren't doing anything if I close them up. Even with both HSC and LSC closed there is hardly any perceptible difference in the feel. From reading this thread and reviews of the mezzer it sounded like closing the lsc all the way would be similar to closing a lock out in a rear shock. Would it be fair to say that if I close all the compression settings I would be able to notice a difference just pushing on the fork in a parking lot type test?


No, nothing on the Mezzer damper resembles a lock out. Not even close. This translates into a better, more usable damper. Don't look for changes by bouncing in the parking lot. Definitely go ride it. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> Again, step one is to get all 3 air chambers properly filled. If you are getting by until then, great. But no one has a formula for an improperly aired fork.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Not sure what you're getting at? I've stated over and over that I've got a shockpump in the mail. I'm asking how Dougal arrived at the air settings he suggested to fizzywater.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Rem17 said:


> Hello all, I've got my mezzer set up pretty well with air pressures and running the compression settings wide open. but I'm finding that the compression adjustments aren't doing anything if I close them up. Even with both HSC and LSC closed there is hardly any perceptible difference in the feel. From reading this thread and reviews of the mezzer it sounded like closing the lsc all the way would be similar to closing a lock out in a rear shock. Would it be fair to say that if I close all the compression settings I would be able to notice a difference just pushing on the fork in a parking lot type test?


Running the LSC closed or close to isn’t going to make it feel the same as as a lock out. It increases the support but doesn’t lock the fork out it still works. I run my LSC 1 click from closed and still have a very active but supportive fork.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Bosbefok said:


> Not sure what you're getting at? I've stated over and over that I've got a shockpump in the mail. I'm asking how Dougal arrived at the air settings he suggested to fizzywater.


I don’t think he is having a go at you he is just correctly emphasising that no matter how much you tinker or play with the clickers now you aren’t really doing yourself any favours and aren’t really going to achieve a great set up until the air is set correctly and accurately. That is the most important part of setting this fork up. You may have fluked it and got the air close but unless you know for sure you are probably better to just ride it how it is and not tinker with the clickers until you know 100% your air settings are correct otherwise you may end up not understanding what each clicker does fully when are fine tuning your set up once you get your pump and set the air properly. It’s easy to get lost in the set up with so many adjustments so don’t confuse the situation any more now wait for your pump.
As far as formulas go here’s how I set up the Mezzer which gives me a very controlled and supportive fork. I like a firm but still plush feeling. I don’t like a soft fork that wallow and uses it’s travel too willingly. I want to feel like I’ve got a front end under me that’s not going to blow through the stroke when I need it there or stuff up.
For 160mm travel I set the IRT to my riding weight in kg. I divide that by 1.65 and set the main to that. Like I’ve stated I run a lot of LSC being on the lighter side (73kg) ready to ride I run the HSC open. At those pressures and weight my rebound is right around the middle and fine tuned from there a click or two depending on the feeling I’m getting. In the lowers I run an oil mix of 1 part Fox Gold 20w to 2 parts Mobil 1 0w-30 engine oil 21ml in each leg after I service it and don’t do the 25hr top up but service it fairly regularly. In the damper I run Maxima 85-150
Hopefully that gets you pretty close to the money with your set up.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Bosbefok said:


> @Dougal do you have a "formula" for a starting point for the air spring that you use for this way of setting it up?


I've been riding IRT for about 4-5 years now. So it's a combo of knowing what works for me and having run my own forks through my computerised spring-tester.

Even at 5psi steps there are an insane number of possible IRT setup combinations. 
If you're below 70kg you also slightly over damped and running softer air pressure can compensate for that.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

OzIbis said:


> I don’t think he is having a go at you he is just correctly emphasising that no matter how much you tinker or play with the clickers now you aren’t really doing yourself any favours and aren’t really going to achieve a great set up until the air is set correctly and accurately.


Cool, I'm just a 40 year old man excited about my new fork right  Gathering info so that I can build my understanding.



OzIbis said:


> For 160mm travel I set the IRT to my riding weight in kg. I divide that by 1.65 and set the main to that. Like I’ve stated I run a lot of LSC being on the lighter side (73kg) ready to ride I run the HSC open. At those pressures and weight my rebound is right around the middle and fine tuned from there a click or two depending on the feeling I’m getting. In the lowers I run an oil mix of 1 part Fox Gold 20w to 2 parts Mobil 1 0w-30 engine oil 21ml in each leg after I service it and don’t do the 25hr top up but service it fairly regularly. In the damper I run Maxima 85-150
> Hopefully that gets you pretty close to the money with your set up.


Thanks for this. I will give it a shot, as well as CCS86's settings, as I weigh about right in the middle of the two of you.




Dougal said:


> I've been riding IRT for about 4-5 years now. So it's a combo of knowing what works for me and having run my own forks through my computerised spring-tester.
> 
> Even at 5psi steps there are an insane number of possible IRT setup combinations.
> If you're below 70kg you also slightly over damped and running softer air pressure can compensate for that.


Thanks for that @Dougal.
As stated on this thread, I think we (I for sure) are use to compensating for poor damping, by riding the air spring. And I cant wait to ride our local "Big White" style track which is rocky and long, to see how my arms feel compared to after the Pike. (That place really brought the worst out of the Pike)

I am spot on 70kg in riding kit, but most of the active users in that range on here have made the damper slightly lighter. Only one way to find out I guess. If its a little on the light side, I should be able to get the support back by adding HSC?


----------



## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

Bosbefok said:


> Is there a trick to getting the damper rod from turning while trying to screw the foot nut on? I couldn't even get mine hand tightened properly (with the socket) before it rotates the damper rod. I've tried giving the fork lower a couple of knocks with compression closed. But didn't really work. I noticed a drop of lower oil hanging from the rebound knob when I went to my bike now.


the service manual specifies holding the locknuts still and turning the shafts anti clockwise to tighten


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Bosbefok said:


> Cool, I'm just a 40 year old man excited about my new fork right  Gathering info so that I can build my understanding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LSC will give you the support. It’s unlikely you’ll need to add HSC at your weight at least not very often. 
Your feeling of being excited is justified as the Mezzer is worth getting excited about. Once it’s set up correctly it’s very confidence inspiring. There will be a HUGE difference between it and your Pike in knarly terrain.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Bosbefok said:


> And I cant wait to ride our local "Big White" style track which is rocky and long, to see how my arms feel compared to after the Pike. (That place really brought the worst out of the Pike)


Do mean Big White in BC? I haven't been there yet, but oh boy that place looks extremely fun. Yeah, on the rocky Big White sort of trails, a Mezzer will be a gargantuan improvement over a Pike. Night and day difference isn't nearly enough to really capture the feel of those two forks.

Damnit, now I have to plan a trip to Big White.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Bosbefok said:


> I am spot on 70kg in riding kit, but most of the active users in that range on here have made the damper slightly lighter. Only one way to find out I guess. If its a little on the light side, I should be able to get the support back by adding HSC?


I'm pretty light at about 73 kg and use a fair bit of LSC and typically no HSC. I do add a click of HSC if I'm going down a steep trail with very big impacts along the way. I only add the HSC if I'm really pushing the suspension hard.


----------



## ToniT (Jun 1, 2018)

So I've had this fork for almost a month and it developed quite a lot of bushing play in the lowers...I guess this issue still isn't resolved. Quite disappointing, because the fork performs great.
Contacted support, I'll see what they will propose as a solution. I'm not thrilled because if the next one does the same I'm in a bad spot.
I ride a lot so things like durabillity and ease of servicing are important to me.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

ToniT said:


> So I've had this fork for almost a month and it developed quite a lot of bushing play in the lowers...I guess this issue still isn't resolved. Quite disappointing, because the fork performs great.
> Contacted support, I'll see what they will propose as a solution. I'm not thrilled because if the next one does the same I'm in a bad spot.
> I ride a lot so things like durabillity and ease of servicing are important to me.


What's the bad spot? They will take care of you. At worst that issue is annoying. No safety or performance concern. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

I'm not wading through the thread, so I will ask the question: What is the cause of the bushing play in the lowers? Are the lowers deforming because they were built too thinly, or are the bushing they are using wearing away?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

polarflux said:


> I'm not wading through the thread, so I will ask the question: What is the cause of the bushing play in the lowers? Are the lowers deforming because they were built too thinly, or are the bushing they are using wearing away?


Most likely natural variation in assembly tolerances. Only 0.15mm clearance will give you noticeable play where 0.1mm is about perfect. It's an extremely tight window for that sort of assembly.

I haven't found a Mezzer with loose bushings yet. Even the original 29" lowers I have here are okay.


----------



## kenais (Jan 30, 2004)

I pulled the lowers for an oil service and noticed damper oil in the drain pan. I pulled the damper out and cycled it by hand, damper oil squirted out of the blow off valve, is that normal? It’s now low on damper oil, if I refill with the bleed kit will it leak out of the blow off valve again? Is there an issue with the bladder blow off valve/spring?


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Most likely natural variation in assembly tolerances. Only 0.15mm clearance will give you noticeable play where 0.1mm is about perfect. It's an extremely tight window for that sort of assembly.
> 
> I haven't found a Mezzer with loose bushings yet. Even the original 29" lowers I have here are okay.


Thanks for the answer. My first conclusion was far too grim.


----------



## ToniT (Jun 1, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> What's the bad spot? They will take care of you. At worst that issue is annoying. No safety or performance concern.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


At top out you can feel it a little, but beyond my sag point or at 40-50% travel it's quite a lot.
Yes I'm not panicking and I still ride like always - it just left a little bad taste.


----------



## Fleijah (Jun 18, 2019)

Hi all, just ordered a Mezzer Pro and when I get home in a few weeks, I'll have about a 2 day window to set it up before leaving on an MTB trip abroad.
I'm 86kg (190lbs) without kit and usually like fast & supportive suspension, setting it up on the poppy side of balanced. Should I prepare for a quick shim stack adjustment during the 2 day window or should I be good to go on the stock fork?
If a shim stack adjustment would likely be best, what shims should I stock up with?


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Fleijah said:


> Hi all, just ordered a Mezzer Pro and when I get home in a few weeks, I'll have about a 2 day window to set it up before leaving on an MTB trip abroad.
> I'm 86kg (190lbs) without kit and usually like fast & supportive suspension, setting it up on the poppy side of balanced. Should I prepare for a quick shim stack adjustment during the 2 day window or should I be good to go on the stock fork?
> If a shim stack adjustment would likely be best, what shims should I stock up with?


You’ll be right with the stock shim stack at your weight.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I'm starting to lose hope in Manitou production quality, maybe it's just bad luck, but 3rd lower casings developped bushing play after a bunch of abuse... Weird thing is, they were fine for 800km, and started knocking over braking bumps not long ago, or maybe I just started hearing it after swapping for a more breathable helmet 🙄 It's not felt in the handlebars, so that's good I guess, but I'm worried it'll get worse with time, will see, cannot make a warranty claim in the middle the season, not sure it's worth it anyway, since 2 times weren't enough it appears...
Worst thing is, it's not even any more plush at that, since apparently one of the bushings is a bit tight, while the other is too loose 🤣 plus I'm pretty sure the warranty expires in September, just when I have a trip to the Alps planned 🙄


----------



## ToniT (Jun 1, 2018)

piciu256 said:


> I'm starting to lose hope in Manitou production quality, maybe it's just bad luck, but 3rd lower casings developped bushing play after a bunch of abuse... Weird thing is, they were fine for 800km, and started knocking over braking bumps not long ago, or maybe I just started hearing it after swapping for a more breathable helmet 🙄 It's not felt in the handlebars, so that's good I guess, but I'm worried it'll get worse with time, will see, cannot make a warranty claim in the middle the season, not sure it's worth it anyway, since 2 times weren't enough it appears...
> Worst thing is, it's not even any more plush at that, since apparently one of the bushings is a bit tight, while the other is too loose 🤣 plus I'm pretty sure the warranty expires in September, just when I have a trip to the Alps planned 🙄


I'm also wondering if I made a mistake by getting this fork. It's not even a month old and it developed a lot of play.

I'm not accepting that I'll be changing the lowers every few months until the warranty expires - I don't even know if I can demand a full refund if this continues.
It's obvious that this issue was never fixed like some people want to make you believe here. I do understand that all other brands have the same issue but it's not as common and repetitive.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

OzIbis said:


> That looks pretty much exactly like the one I’ve got.
> You’ve probably already read this but when you do set the pressures make sure the front wheel is off the ground or at least doesn’t have any weight on it. Set the IRT first then the main and pull down on the lowers while the pump is still fully connected. If you miss any of the above steps it’s very likely either your pressures or travel won’t be correct and the fork won’t feel right.


Well, in other news.. My shockpump arrived! Nice bit of kit that, thanks for the recommendation. 
So I set it up per @CCS86 calculator made very sure I did it all perfectly. The dual stage head works a treat. 
So I'm 70kg/155Lbs and set it to 44/72psi. Feels a little soft off the top, I'm getting 34mm or 21% sag, which when looking at the chart isn't excessive. It could just be the that I'm comparing it to the previous setting, which leaked some of the pressure from the negative chamber, and when dropping the IRT pressure, It actually created a slightly more linear spring, with less negative.

I may also try the Manitou pressures, however it's kind of going the opposite way to what I set out to do, which was Dougal's lower pressure and more damping way. I still like this Idea, just don't want it to get to mushy/ soft off the top. Can the ratio between IRT and Main be manipulated to not give me even more sag when I try lower settings and higher LSC? Like volume spacers in the Negative spring..?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Bosbefok said:


> Well, in other news.. My shockpump arrived! Nice bit of kit that, thanks for the recommendation.
> So I set it up per @CCS86 calculator made very sure I did it all perfectly. The dual stage head works a treat.
> So I'm 70kg/155Lbs and set it to 44/72psi. Feels a little soft off the top, I'm getting 34mm or 21% sag, which when looking at the chart isn't excessive. It could just be the that I'm comparing it to the previous setting, which leaked some of the pressure from the negative chamber, and when dropping the IRT pressure, It actually created a slightly more linear spring, with less negative.
> 
> I may also try the Manitou pressures, however it's kind of going the opposite way to what I set out to do, which was Dougal's lower pressure and more damping way. I still like this Idea, just don't want it to get to mushy/ soft off the top. Can the ratio between IRT and Main be manipulated to not give me even more sag when I try lower settings and higher LSC? Like volume spacers in the Negative spring..?


What position are you measuring sag in?
The biggest reason I don't use it is everyone measures it using a different riding position.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Dougal said:


> What position are you measuring sag in?
> The biggest reason I don't use it is everyone measures it using a different riding position.


I usually don't measure sag up front, as I never get to the exact same position each time. For rear, I sit on lowered saddle, as this is more repeatable position. Sag is always just an indication. Riding feel, balance and bump absorption is more importanter.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Bosbefok said:


> Well, in other news.. My shockpump arrived! Nice bit of kit that, thanks for the recommendation.
> So I set it up per @CCS86 calculator made very sure I did it all perfectly. The dual stage head works a treat.
> So I'm 70kg/155Lbs and set it to 44/72psi. Feels a little soft off the top, I'm getting 34mm or 21% sag, which when looking at the chart isn't excessive. It could just be the that I'm comparing it to the previous setting, which leaked some of the pressure from the negative chamber, and when dropping the IRT pressure, It actually created a slightly more linear spring, with less negative.
> 
> I may also try the Manitou pressures, however it's kind of going the opposite way to what I set out to do, which was Dougal's lower pressure and more damping way. I still like this Idea, just don't want it to get to mushy/ soft off the top. Can the ratio between IRT and Main be manipulated to not give me even more sag when I try lower settings and higher LSC? Like volume spacers in the Negative spring..?


Your pressures are right in the ball park of what I would recommend for your weight. Actually a couple of PSI higher in both but very close. If you haven’t done so already crank the LSC on. I’m only a couple of KG’s heavier than you and my fork sits up really well in the stroke using very similar pressures but lots of LSC. With the pressure split you have between your air springs you should be getting a really good amount of progression. My aim with my set up is to have good small bump/chatter compliance so it’s comfortable and not jarring in that terrain but supports you on the bigger hits. That is exactly what I get with my set up. In my mind so long as you aren’t blowing through the stroke enjoy the plushness off the top and let the damper and HBO take care of the big hits. That’s what they are there for. Might be just a matter of getting used to a different feel than what you are used to. 
I can’t remember from your previous posts but have you done the shim mod to your damper or is it still stock? 
I wouldn’t pay too much attention to sag on the fork, shock yes but not the fork. There’s too many variables.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ToniT said:


> At top out you can feel it a little, but beyond my sag point or at 40-50% travel it's quite a lot.
> Yes I'm not panicking and I still ride like always - it just left a little bad taste.





ToniT said:


> I'm also wondering if I made a mistake by getting this fork. It's not even a month old and it developed a lot of play.
> 
> I'm not accepting that I'll be changing the lowers every few months until the warranty expires - I don't even know if I can demand a full refund if this continues.
> It's obvious that this issue was never fixed like some people want to make you believe here. I do understand that all other brands have the same issue but it's not as common and repetitive.


Bushing play doesn't change depending on fork compression. I think you've got some other issue going on.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I agree, mine knocks the same, no matter where in the stroke, you can hear it when the front wheel is skipping when braking over loose gravel, and when bouncing the wheel up and pushing down hard, same noise, same loudness.
Maybe a loose shim stack or something in your case @ToniT
Check for play by bouncing the wheel with one hand, while holding the bushing area with the other, for me the right side is quite bad, while the left side is good enough not to bother me otherwise.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Is Manitou able to deal with customer claims directly, or do I have to go through the dealer I bought from?


----------



## ToniT (Jun 1, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Bushing play doesn't change depending on fork compression. I think you've got some other issue going on.


Definetly it's the bushings, I can feel the free play at the dust wipers.
Maybe I did not word it right, you can feel it throughout when stationary, but when riding I can feel it during harder braking on small roots, rocks...



piciu256 said:


> I agree, mine knocks the same, no matter where in the stroke, you can hear it when the front wheel is skipping when braking over loose gravel, and when bouncing the wheel up and pushing down hard, same noise, same loudness.
> Maybe a loose shim stack or something in your case @ToniT
> Check for play by bouncing the wheel with one hand, while holding the bushing area with the other, for me the right side is quite bad, while the left side is good enough not to bother me otherwise.


That's similar to how mine feels as well, didn't really check which is worst, since it does not really matter.



piciu256 said:


> Is Manitou able to deal with customer claims directly, or do I have to go through the dealer I bought from?


I tried directly and they diverted me to a local distributor. So I wrote them an email today and I'll see.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ToniT said:


> Definetly it's the bushings, I can feel the free play at the dust wipers.
> Maybe I did not word it right, you can feel it throughout when stationary, but when riding I can feel it during harder braking on small roots, rocks...


You can always feel free-play at the dust wipers. Good bushings have ~0.1mm of play and at ~0.15mm some people will start to notice. They need that gap for the oil film to move through.
Feeling it on hard braking and rocks/roots is not what you usually get from bushings.

Is this a Pro or Expert?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

A friend of mine has a Mattoc that's bad enough to bind on braking bumps (cycling back and forth instead of parallel to the legs) and you can really feel it even when just bouncing around on the parking lot, so I know bushings can be loose enough for that to happen, that's why I'm worried about mine knocking, if they stay as they are, I can live with it, but would rather avoid having to fix it out of pocket down the line.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

piciu256 said:


> A friend of mine has a Mattoc that's bad enough to bind on braking bumps (cycling back and forth instead of parallel to the legs) and you can really feel it even when just bouncing around on the parking lot, so I know bushings can be loose enough for that to happen, that's why I'm worried about mine knocking, if they stay as they are, I can live with it, but would rather avoid having to fix it out of pocket down the line.


The oval bushing seat issue the Mattoc boost models had could cause a stanchion to wedge in and bind. That's different to a normal loose bushing which feels loose but doesn't bind.

It takes a horrendous amount of play in a bushing for it to knock while riding. That almost never happens. A bushing would need to basically lose it's PTFE coating thickness.
The forks that are worn until they have ~0.5mm of play between stanchions that have lost their anodising and worn out bushings still don't knock while riding.

Every case I've had of a rider thinking bushings were loose and knocking was something else. Usually something in the damper.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I'll inspect, more closely, take out the damper etc, it's due for a lower leg service anyway I reckon, pretty sure it's the bushing knocking though, since I can feel movement on the right leg with my finger, corresponding with the sound.
Does make me hopeful it'll not get worse, like with the oval bushings in that Mattoc, there it got much worse really quickly, and his order date does line up with receiving the faulty batch.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Nah, still makes the slight knock, even without the damper installed, still, of it's not supposed to get worse, then whatever. Maybe I'll send it your way for bushing sizing when the season is over, if you intend to offer this service for a Mezzer that is.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

General question: IRT tuning vs. poppy rear end.

So I have this general question about IRT set up in relation to the amount of pop you want. Of course there infinite number of ways to set up the IRT, but in general I think it is ok to say that it mainly increases mid travel support. Of course this is nice on steep decents, preventing your fork from diving and rushing through it's travel. This also means (AFAIK) it's gonna be more linear than a fork (or rear end) set up with more progression and thus pop.

Does this mean there is a maximum amount of pop one can generate with an IRT equipped fork and one needs to balance the bike with a more linear rear end as well? So basically having to choose between how much mid travel support one wants vs. how much poppy ness one wants from the bike? Perhaps, someone who values poppyness over linear response from his bike could be better of without the IRT kit?


----------



## ToniT (Jun 1, 2018)

Dougal said:


> You can always feel free-play at the dust wipers. Good bushings have ~0.1mm of play and at ~0.15mm some people will start to notice. They need that gap for the oil film to move through.
> Feeling it on hard braking and rocks/roots is not what you usually get from bushings.
> 
> Is this a Pro or Expert?


It's the pro version. 
I understand that some gap is ok, but I don't think the amount I have is ok. 
Like I said you can also hear the knocking and feel it through the handlebar when riding, and it's not a slight knock, it's literally like something is loose on the front end.
I checked the hub bearings and headset bearing and no play there.
I also did a lowers service like a week ago and didn't see anything unusual.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ToniT said:


> It's the pro version.
> I understand that some gap is ok, but I don't think the amount I have is ok.
> Like I said you can also hear the knocking and feel it through the handlebar when riding, and it's not a slight knock, it's literally like something is loose on the front end.
> I checked the hub bearings and headset bearing and no play there.
> I also did a lowers service like a week ago and didn't see anything unusual.


Bushings don't knock like that. It's something else.
Send it in for warranty.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CS645 said:


> General question: IRT tuning vs. poppy rear end.
> 
> So I have this general question about IRT set up in relation to the amount of pop you want. Of course there infinite number of ways to set up the IRT, but in general I think it is ok to say that it mainly increases mid travel support. Of course this is nice on steep decents, preventing your fork from diving and rushing through it's travel. This also means (AFAIK) it's gonna be more linear than a fork (or rear end) set up with more progression and thus pop.
> 
> Does this mean there is a maximum amount of pop one can generate with an IRT equipped fork and one needs to balance the bike with a more linear rear end as well? So basically having to choose between how much mid travel support one wants vs. how much poppy ness one wants from the bike? Perhaps, someone who values poppyness over linear response from his bike could be better of without the IRT kit?


Pop is spring-rate and rebound damping. Spring-rate is mostly dependent on main spring pressure with IRT mostly end of stroke ramp-up.
IRT doesn't impact pop. Your main air pressure and rebound damping does.

You can vent the IRT and just run on main spring pressure to see how it feels disabled.


----------



## ToniT (Jun 1, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Bushings don't knock like that. It's something else.
> Send it in for warranty.


But I do feel the play if I put my finger between the arch and stanchion. 
Anyway I got a reply from the local distributor to come over so they check it...will see what they say.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Dougal said:


> What position are you measuring sag in?
> The biggest reason I don't use it is everyone measures it using a different riding position.


I'm measuring it standing up leaning my shoulder in the doorframe. I understand its hard to replicate between users as there are so many variables, (geometry for one) and people get hung up on it. So its really just my personal benchmark. My real concern, is that I actually wanted to drop the pressure and close LSC as per your recommendation and was just wondering if that wouldn't sag to much. I will go ride it later though, and experiment as there's no point deliberating in the garage!


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

OzIbis said:


> Your pressures are right in the ball park of what I would recommend for your weight. Actually a couple of PSI higher in both but very close. If you haven’t done so already crank the LSC on. I’m only a couple of KG’s heavier than you and my fork sits up really well in the stroke using very similar pressures but lots of LSC. With the pressure split you have between your air springs you should be getting a really good amount of progression. My aim with my set up is to have good small bump/chatter compliance so it’s comfortable and not jarring in that terrain but supports you on the bigger hits. That is exactly what I get with my set up. In my mind so long as you aren’t blowing through the stroke enjoy the plushness off the top and let the damper and HBO take care of the big hits. That’s what they are there for. Might be just a matter of getting used to a different feel than what you are used to.
> I can’t remember from your previous posts but have you done the shim mod to your damper or is it still stock?
> I wouldn’t pay too much attention to sag on the fork, shock yes but not the fork. There’s too many variables.


I will definitely give the LSC some love, as It blew my mind on Sundays ride. I am still on the stock damper.

*I do want to order some shims so I can do the swap eventually.* I will see what I can get hold of here in SA.
As far as compression goes:
In your Video you uploaded on Youtube, you replace a 17.5 with a 14mm shim on the compression stack right? Dougal recommends a 12mm, the difference is probably quite small, but any particular reason you chose the 14mm?

On the rebound side,
Assuming I do have the MY21 rebound tune, can someone recommend how I could modify the stack a bit further to get rebound just a little faster ? I am not an expert at this, which is why I ask, but from my basic understanding, perhaps one of the following:
a) swapping the 9 x 6 x 0.1 for a 8.5 x 6 x 0.2 further down
b) swapping the 13 x 6 x 0.1 that is left for the 12 x 6 x 1.0 on top


Piston
13 x 6 x 0.1
9 x 6 x 0.1 swap with 8.5 x 6 x 0.2 below
13 x 6 x 0.1 or swap with 12 x 6 x 1.0
13 x 6 x 0.1 ← Lets presume this is gone
8.5 x 6 x 0.2 
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
12 x 6 x 1.0


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Pop is spring-rate and rebound damping. Spring-rate is mostly dependent on main spring pressure with IRT mostly end of stroke ramp-up.
> IRT doesn't impact pop. Your main air pressure and rebound damping does.
> 
> You can vent the IRT and just run on main spring pressure to see how it feels disabled.


I just came back from a ride now. Doesn't help that its cold! Everything feels more harsh. 
Weird how the rebound kind of feels OK standing in the garage, but when on the trail, it really feels slow and difficult to get the front up for little jumps and manuals? Like the rebound from deep in the stroke is quite slow, and the last bit is a bit quicker? 
It also felt a bit firm riding the LSC closed. Id say I probably have to do the valving tune or ride it open. 
I would appreciate some advice on the Post above regarding the rebound shim stack. If I buy shims, the shipping costs more than the shims, so I want to get some for the rebound If I cant get away with swapping out.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Bosbefok said:


> Weird how the rebound kind of feels OK standing in the garage, but when on the trail, it really feels slow and difficult to get the front up for little jumps and manuals? Like the rebound from deep in the stroke is quite slow, and the last bit is a bit quicker?


I also have this experience. Especially after running my Z1 Coil with Andreani piston upgrade.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Rebound already set full fast? 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Add a bit of air if you want more pop, also, LSC closed doesn't help in that regard, go and try different settings, you'll have some perspective on what does what. 
I doubt you have the my21 tune if you feel it's too slow, I weight 55kg, run 30/50 psi and find that running 0-1 clicks (depending on track, braking bumps- fully open, tech- one in) of rebound is perfect, that's with the my21 tune.


----------



## Fleijah (Jun 18, 2019)

The spring stores and 'rebounds' energy. The damper dissipates it. If you rely on the damper too much for support you'll be able to push off the fork but the fork won't push off the ground much because it doesn't store much energy.
If you want to use the rebound for pop, less (LSC & rebound) damping and more psi will make a massive difference.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

hssp said:


> I also have this experience. Especially after running my Z1 Coil with Andreani piston upgrade.
> 
> Do you know what rebound stack you're running?





CCS86 said:


> Rebound already set full fast?
> 
> Yep, full fast.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk





piciu256 said:


> Add a bit of air if you want more pop, also, LSC closed doesn't help in that regard, go and try different settings, you'll have some perspective on what does what.
> I doubt you have the my21 tune if you feel it's too slow, I weight 55kg, run 30/50 psi and find that running 0-1 clicks (depending on track, braking bumps- fully open, tech- one in) of rebound is perfect, that's with the my21 tune.


I'm set up for 70kg, if yours is fast enough at 55, I seriously doubt I have the "MY21 tune"
My Fork says Feb 2022 on the box, but I'm starting to wonder about that. 

Maybe time to pull it apart. I just want some back up plans in place incase its something else.


----------



## Fleijah (Jun 18, 2019)

Bosbefok said:


> I'm set up for 70kg, if yours is fast enough at 55, I seriously doubt I have the "MY21 tune"
> My Fork says Feb 2022 on the box, but I'm starting to wonder about that.
> 
> Maybe time to pull it apart. I just want some back up plans in place incase its something else.


Slow rebound, hard to pop, stiff when it's cold - they're all symptoms of an overdamped fork. Have you tried lowering LSC?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

The rebound is progressive which leads people to run it very fast.

Compression damping on a fork is very light in the grand scheme and doesn't affect pop or preloading much without massive changes. It has to be light so riders don't get continually bucked. We don't have arms of steel unfortunately.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Bosbefok said:


> I will definitely give the LSC some love, as It blew my mind on Sundays ride. I am still on the stock damper.
> 
> *I do want to order some shims so I can do the swap eventually.* I will see what I can get hold of here in SA.
> As far as compression goes:
> ...


I found the 12mm was a little too soft for my liking. I put a 15mm shim in after the 12mm because it’s pretty close to being right in the middle of the 12mm and stock and it was really good but on the odd occasion I just felt like I wanted a tad more plushness. I was asked by another member to video the process of re-shimming the damper so I made the video and put the 14mm in which satisfied a curiosity on my side. For me the 14mm is the perfect size in most situations. Basically there is no one set up that will be perfect in every situation so you’ve just got to choose a set up that’s good in most situations if you ride trails with lots of variations in terrain like I do.
On the rebound thing I find it strange that some people with the later rebound stack find it too slow. Like I’ve stated before my set up is pretty much in the middle at around 5-6 from closed depending on the terrain. If I open it up anymore it gets skippy and runs wide on bumpy corners. The only thing I can think is that maybe some forks are coming with slightly different rebound stacks. I can’t say what stack mine has because I’ve had no issues with slow rebound so I’ve had no reason to pull it apart.


----------



## RogerJ (6 mo ago)

Hi guys, recently purchased a Mezzer Pro (29",180mm,44mm) from CRC which replaced my 2019 Mezzer.

Yesterday I noticed that the right lower leg bushing seems to be misaligned. Picture attached. Fork feels ok overall with bushings on the tight side. Please advise if this will cause any issues. Thanks


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Dougal said:


> Pop is spring-rate and rebound damping. Spring-rate is mostly dependent on main spring pressure with IRT mostly end of stroke ramp-up.
> IRT doesn't impact pop. Your main air pressure and rebound damping does.
> 
> You can vent the IRT and just run on main spring pressure to see how it feels disabled.


Thanks. A friend of mine just switched from a Fox 34 grip to a Mezzer Pro. He noticed a lot less pop. Of course the majority of that was set up work still to be done, but personally I have noticed it as well on my Mezzer and previously on the Mattoc. Like others have noted, I have reduced rebound myself as well to make to front more poppy and more balanced with the rear in that regard. However as others have noted, when I set rebound so I get enough energy back, it's starts to feel a bit nervous on the small bumps. I would like to try HSR a bit faster in relation to the LSR, unfortunately without the separate dial that will get quite complicated. But I will admit that it could also be down to my limited lack of ability to really judge well what the suspension/damping is doing when riding.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Removing the spacer shim between the rebound shims would get the HS rebound stiffer in relation to the LS rebound, more linear stack in other words, may do enough of a difference for you.
For me the stuck down feeling is desirable, when I want to pop, it requires a bit more effort, bit that's not an issue, on the other hand, handling chunk almost like a DH fork would, and chunk at high speed is something I cannot deal with on my own, unlike jumping.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

OzIbis said:


> I found the 12mm was a little too soft for my liking. I put a 15mm shim in after the 12mm because it’s pretty close to being right in the middle of the 12mm and stock and it was really good but on the odd occasion I just felt like I wanted a tad more plushness. I was asked by another member to video the process of re-shimming the damper so I made the video and put the 14mm which satisfied a curiosity on my side. For me the 14mm is the perfect size in most situations. Basically there is no one set up that will be perfect in every situation so you’ve just got to choose a set up that’s good in most situations if you ride trails with lots of variations in terrain like I do.
> On the rebound thing I find it strange that some people with the later rebound stack find it too slow. Like I’ve stated before my set up is pretty much in the middle at around 5-6 from closed depending on the terrain. If I open it up anymore it gets skippy and runs wide on bumpy corners. The only thing I can think is that maybe some forks are coming with slightly different rebound stacks. I can’t say what stack mine has because I’ve had no issues with slow rebound so I’ve had no reason to pull it apart.


I'm just going to take it one step at a time. I know the fork can be amazing, but Its obvious one can get it wrong, too. I will open the damper, perhaps this weekend, to see what the rebound stack looks like.


----------



## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

All this info on the Pro fork and its adjustment is making me dizzy, LOL. 

Anybody with more feedback who has ridden the stock Expert, with no IRT added. Wondering if still stake up better against a Pike or Lyrik Ultimate like the Pro seems to.

Also would the Expert seem to lean more toward over or under damped?


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

SSsteel4life said:


> All this info on the Pro fork and its adjustment is making me dizzy, LOL.
> 
> Anybody with more feedback who has ridden the stock Expert, with no IRT added. Wondering if still stake up better against a Pike or Lyrik Ultimate like the Pro seems to.
> 
> Also would the Expert seem to lean more toward over or under damped?


I rode the stock expert for 3-4 rides before adding the IRT. It felt a lot more plush and enjoyable (Manitou recommended settings for air and tokens) off the top than the 2021 Lyrik Ultimate it replaced. When I added the IRT, it was firmer off the top than the before with the Manitou settings. Then I used the calculator here, it kind of split the difference, and it felt amazing.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

SSsteel4life said:


> All this info on the Pro fork and its adjustment is making me dizzy, LOL.
> 
> Anybody with more feedback who has ridden the stock Expert, with no IRT added. Wondering if still stake up better against a Pike or Lyrik Ultimate like the Pro seems to.
> 
> Also would the Expert seem to lean more toward over or under damped?


Way better than off the shelf last gen RS


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Edit: 220lbs when I switched to the Mezzer


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

piciu256 said:


> Removing the spacer shim between the rebound shims would get the HS rebound stiffer in relation to the LS rebound, more linear stack in other words, may do enough of a difference for you.
> For me the stuck down feeling is desirable, when I want to pop, it requires a bit more effort, bit that's not an issue, on the other hand, handling chunk almost like a DH fork would, and chunk at high speed is something I cannot deal with on my own, unlike jumping.


Would Stiffer HSR not mean slower, while we want it faster?
Sounds a bit like a conversation on this thread I found when looking up digressive rebound.








A Case for Digressive Rebound


Is there ever a good one? I have noticed that the stock aftermarket tune for a certain 2022 shock includes a heavily preloaded (digressive) rebound stack for all sizes/strokes. I am wondering why? The only situation I can think of choosing a digressive rebound tune would be to to help with...




www.mtbr.com







pedalinbob said:


> As usual, your (and Jayem's and many others) insight is amazing.
> 
> Strangely, I like my rear suspension set up to stick to the ground and feel a bit dead (but not completely dead). I like the front to be a little less ground-huggy.
> 
> ...


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

No, it would not, since the issue is that having the HSR fast enough makes the lsr too fast, then making the lsr slower in relation to the HSR would make the settings effectively more poppy. That's my take on this at least.


----------



## Threedspeed (6 mo ago)

RogerJ said:


> Hi guys, recently purchased a Mezzer Pro (29",180mm,44mm) from CRC which replaced my 2019 Mezzer.
> 
> Yesterday I noticed that the right lower leg bushing seems to be misaligned. Picture attached. Fork feels ok overall with bushings on the tight side. Please advise if this will cause any issues. Thanks
> View attachment 1992497
> ...


I have the same thing on my fork I recently got. I’m trying to figure out if issue. Did you get any feedack?


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

You guys want to speed up/soften the hsr shim stack. I've experimented some with this. I'm running something similar to second stack in this post. 









Manitou Mezzer: Owners Thread [Setup & Tech]


Experimenting with some faster rebound tunes. Am 160lbs, run 51psi in main and was previously running rebound close to fully open for reference. With this new tune im able to run rebound 4 out from closed which felt great. Mid speed is fast, a little too fast, and then still had great bottom...




www.mtbr.com





Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Fleijah (Jun 18, 2019)

Dougal said:


> The rebound is progressive which leads people to run it very fast.
> 
> Compression damping on a fork is very light in the grand scheme and doesn't affect pop or preloading much without massive changes. It has to be light so riders don't get continually bucked. We don't have arms of steel unfortunately.


Is the rebound itself progressive (faster as compression speeds increase) or is the rebound damping progressive?
Also, is this something that can be changed with shim stacks?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Damping is progressive, removing the spacer shim between the 2 shims would make it linear.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

piciu256 said:


> Damping is progressive, removing the spacer shim between the 2 shims would make it linear.


I don't think this is right. The piston is dished so the first face shim is preloaded. Removing the spacer would cause second shim to also be preloaded and overall increase dampening plus make it more digressive. 




Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

The rebound gets really complex. I think I'll put together a package solution when I can.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I heard that it is slightly dished, maybe that's the case, but certainly not in my fork, if it has a slight dish, it's small enough not to be seen by naked eye, or measured with a feeler gauge, so it might as well not be there. Anyway, I don't think 0,1mm preload would matter much here anyway, with how soft the stack is.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

I can confirm that manitou has thickened the lowers arround the bushings. On the lower ones the overall diameter increased around 1,5mm and on the top bushing there is 3mm added material. Now it looks quite beefy.
Great news for all us who went through a couple sets of lowers.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

I weigh about 190 lbs ride ready. For my local rather tame trails I have the rebound set to 7 and the bike feels poppy and balanced. On more technical trail this feel be nervous and I set the rebound to 5, but than it really lacks any pop and I suppose the rear HSR needs to be slown down as well to keep it balanced. Now I understand a bit better what is going on suspension wise, it is a bit easier to adjust depending on the terrain, so going forward I will be better be able to adjust.

Perhaps if Manitou in the future would want to give end users more control without making it to difficult for the average Joe, they could perhaps, rather than give a separate HSR and LSR dial have an additional dial that tunes the rebound progressiveness in say three step from the current progressive setting to linear. That way you give a bit more control over how you want the fork to feel without make it as complicated as a separate HSR and LSR setting.

Anyway, I don't know if that is technically feasible, but I think I would like to have that options as an end user.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

What you suggested, wouldn't be realistically possible to implement, I don't think 😅


----------



## Fleijah (Jun 18, 2019)

What about the compression damping curve, is it linear, digressive or progressive?
Or even better; what's the real world range of curve shapes that can be achieved by changing HSC/LSC ratios over their full range? Even if most settings won't be realistic or usable for a realistic range of rider weights. 
Would be interested to see how successfully one can really alter the damping curve using LSC/HSC separately now that RS is claiming to have eliminated HSC/LSC 'crosstalk'.
Would like to see how the mezzer does and where it sits stock.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Definitely linear, unless you are running more HSC adjustment, then digressive, with a preload.
As for eliminating "crosstalk", it's really not hard at all afaik, you just make the LSC hole small enough to choke early enough, whatever that means, Rock Shox found that really hard to guestimate for whatever reason, at some point actually making the hole so large and the adjuster so small, that the LSC dial only offset the high speed compression, with no effect on rider input 🤣


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

lukam said:


> I can confirm that manitou has thickened the lowers arround the bushings. On the lower ones the overall diameter increased around 1,5mm and on the top bushing there is 3mm added material. Now it looks quite beefy.
> Great news for all us who went through a couple sets of lowers.
> View attachment 1992726
> 
> View attachment 1992725


I’m not sure what yours looked like before but that’s pretty much exactly what mine looked like the way they came. I obviously don’t know if yours are a bigger diameter physically but the angled step below the fork seals looks about the same size as mine as well.


----------



## Chubb (Jun 27, 2011)

lukam said:


> I can confirm that manitou has thickened the lowers arround the bushings. On the lower ones the overall diameter increased around 1,5mm and on the top bushing there is 3mm added material. Now it looks quite beefy.
> Great news for all us who went through a couple sets of lowers.
> View attachment 1992726
> 
> View attachment 1992725


What was the Date of Manufacture on the box and where did you buy it from? 

Does anyone know when this revision first entered production?


----------



## Fleijah (Jun 18, 2019)

piciu256 said:


> Definitely linear, unless you are running more HSC adjustment, then digressive, with a preload.
> As for eliminating "crosstalk", it's really not hard at all afaik, you just make the LSC hole small enough to choke early enough, whatever that means, Rock Shox found that really hard to guestimate for whatever reason, at some point actually making the hole so large and the adjuster so small, that the LSC dial only offset the high speed compression, with no effect on rider input 🤣


So by having more LSC than HSC, the damping curve will indeed be digressive on the Mezzer?


----------



## jjyoung (Jul 14, 2008)

I have mezzer expert and wasn't real happy with it compared to my 36 rhythm. My mezzer started creaking about 3 rides in and was quite harsh. I serviced it and it felt better for couple rides then was harsh again. I sent fork back to manitou and they replaced the entire fork except for the damper and air shaft. My original fork was made in late 21' sometime. The new fork has different lowers, I can't see the bushing bulge as much and I agree must be thicker material. Performance wise, the rebuilt mezzer has been outstanding. Exactly the feel I've experienced with my other manitou forks in the past. I added IRT and initial impressions are very positive. Manitou is top notch in my book for customer service and performance.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Dougal said:


> The rebound gets really complex. I think I'll put together a package solution when I can.


Do you mean to buy as a complete new shim stack?
I must say, the complexity of rebound valving fries my brain just thinking about it. So many variables. 
@Dougal, what are the benefits to digressive damping over linear damping? 
Also, what role does the 12 x 6 x 1.0 have at the end of the stack on the actual rebound damping?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

The advantages? It's just easy to make a high speed adjuster that preloads the stack, instead of some crazy contraption that keeps the linear damping curve.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

piciu256 said:


> The advantages? It's just easy to make a high speed adjuster that preloads the stack, instead of some crazy contraption that keeps the linear damping curve.


Sorry, I was actually meaning to say, digressive rebound damping.. I have not opened this up myself, but I assume the rebound stack is preloaded by the height of the stack, right? In the last couple of pages the slight dish in the clamp shim has been noted. I was wondering If one can relieve any of that preload to lighten the damping? although that amount of preload may not have a big effect, the height of the stack would have to be maintained.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

The stack is progressive, the preload has nothing to do with it, it's a 2 stage shim stack. You want o make the high speed portion softer in relation to the low speed portion, from what you said, not the other way round.


----------



## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

And what is the weight difference vs. the "old" type?



Chubb said:


> What was the Date of Manufacture on the box and where did you buy it from?
> 
> Does anyone know when this revision first entered production?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

lukam said:


> I can confirm that manitou has thickened the lowers arround the bushings. On the lower ones the overall diameter increased around 1,5mm and on the top bushing there is 3mm added material. Now it looks quite beefy.
> Great news for all us who went through a couple sets of lowers.
> View attachment 1992726
> 
> View attachment 1992725


Can you take some measurements? 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## daviduk (Jul 30, 2021)

was there a problem with the area around the bushings before?
got my eye on some but they dont have the thickened part..should i be worried?


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Mine were manufactured late 2020 and don’t have a bulge around the bushing area and came with a 2021 spec shim stack. The lowers are basically a constant diameter the whole way down. One thing I did notice is that mine came worth the stealth stickers on the bottom of the lowers where Mezzer Pro is written A lot of others had the chrome stickers in that area I saw pictures of. I don’t know if that corresponds with different lowers or not. Mine have a pretty constant diameter of just under 44mm the way down.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

They're all shaped, that's why the original stickers (single sheet) didn't sit flat and wrinkled. Anyone want to get some measurements to check?
Newest forks I have here are August 2021 build.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Dougal said:


> They're all shaped, that's why the original stickers (single sheet) didn't sit flat and wrinkled. Anyone want to get some measurements to check?
> Newest forks I have here are August 2021 build.


The measurement I took was side to side and they were pretty constant the whole way down with very minimal variations. They are slightly oval shaped being a tad bigger front to back. That measurement is around 45mm and still pretty constant.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

For reference, mine (MY19) are also 45mm wide fore-aft, they are 43mm wide side-side.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

I have a January 2022 model, same blacked stickers at the bottom as photo above.
The bulge for the bushing goes to 46 x 45 and the thinner general dimension is 43 x 44mm.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

My Mezzer LE has a casting year of "19" visible in the back of the brace. The outer legs taper about 1mm sideways (43-44mm) and about 3mm front-back (46.5 to 43.5). They're fattest by the N in the stickers: 


__
http://instagr.am/p/Cbdbd8aB64r/


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Are we seriously comparing girth 😳


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

It's not the size, but how you use it that matters, anyway, from this info it seems there wasn't really any change to the casting size 😅


----------



## Pedro46 (Apr 12, 2017)

Hi all , I am going to fit my Mezzer pro onto my evil this weekend , just wanted to know if anyone has
a good base setting for a 180lb /82kg rider with fork at 150mm please….? Or is the stock setup a good starting point….?
IRT and main chambers mainly , LSC HSC , rebound …..
will be setting up at the enduro/trail setting initially 
on my old Lyrik I usually run HSC fully open , LSC a few clicks from fully open and rebound 3 clicks from fully open , I’m okay with adjusting the clickers , just wanted to know about IRT and main chamber pressures of what you guys run….
thanks


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Set pressure by the Manitou table at first, just a baseline, clickers LSC fully closed or close to is good, but may as well see what open feels like.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Pedro46 said:


> Hi all , I am going to fit my Mezzer pro onto my evil this weekend , just wanted to know if anyone has
> a good base setting for a 180lb /82kg rider with fork at 150mm please….? Or is the stock setup a good starting point….?
> IRT and main chambers mainly , LSC HSC , rebound …..
> will be setting up at the enduro/trail setting initially
> ...


The first post has all that info. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Pedro46 (Apr 12, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> The first post has all that info.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


I was asking what pressure people run who are the same weight as me with the same travel , just to see if they have changed from the suggested setup
thanks


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Pedro46 said:


> I was asking what pressure people run who are the same weight as me with the same travel , just to see if they have changed from the suggested setup
> thanks


There's a spread sheet there with multiple people's settings...


----------



## pedronicman (Jun 9, 2020)

Just a quick question just a little confused with the set up on the dials for LSC and HSC which is fully open is it plus or minus thank you


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Minus is counted from fully closed (clockwise) plus is counted from fully open.


----------



## Pedro46 (Apr 12, 2017)

piciu256 said:


> Minus is counted from fully closed (clockwise) plus is counted from fully open.


Thank you!


----------



## Pedro46 (Apr 12, 2017)

Is anyone 180lb and running at 150mm ? If so please let me know your IRT/ main settings ,
Just curious as the CCS86 user chart on the first page doesn’t have anyone near that range…
(27.5mm on an evil calling)
thanks


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

croakies said:


> You guys want to speed up/soften the hsr shim stack. I've experimented some with this. I'm running something similar to second stack in this post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So after about 6 rides I finally had time to open my fork up to see what stack I had. 
I took out a 17.5mm shim on the compression side. I have a 13mm and 15mm to try if I find this to soft.

Surprisingly, I have the 12mm rebound shims as postedabove. This is a total curveball as I have no 6mm shims to play with.

I am left with 2 options, either swapping out the first crossover shim 9x6x0.1 for the 8x6x0.2 at the bottom before the backing plate, however I'm not convinced its going to be any better. LSR slightly faster and high-speed slightly slower.

The other option, for now would be to use a slightly lighter oil 10 mm²/s @ 40 °C.

The damper is lying open on my workbench, and I'm not sure when I could get the 0.15 shims and extra 12mm that you used in your mod. 

Thanks for posting this through. Its a pity they couldn't stick to the original rebound stack as it is really simple to lighten.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

It's not faster rebound you guys need. It's a change in rebound curve shape. I'm working on a kit right now.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Dougal said:


> It's not faster rebound you guys need. It's a change in rebound curve shape. I'm working on a kit right now.


Yep. 
Reducing IRT volume will also affect rebound curve in a positive way.
Standard IRT volume is too great for 140-160 travel and aggressive riding on chunky terrain. Maybe too large for 170-180 also but I have not tried those settings.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

nmxtrdr said:


> Yep.
> Reducing IRT volume will also affect rebound curve in a positive way.
> Standard IRT volume is too great for 140-160 travel and aggressive riding on chunky terrain. Maybe too large for 170-180 also but I have not tried those settings.


Nope, works awesome for my weight of 215lbs, how much doe you weigh?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I also disagree with this "too large IRT" statement, it's perfect for me weigh-in in @55kg.


----------



## pedronicman (Jun 9, 2020)

First ride on the new fork yesterday - and wow what an amazing fork! better than anything else ridden!
so far I’ve put my settings as suggested from the calculator on the chart on the first page -
180lb / 150mm
85 IRT
57 main
then with LSC , HSC and rebound fully open , was pretty pleased on that setting
closed LSC a little and tried that but went back to open , just wanted to ask which way I could adjust the main and or IRT pressure to improve the feel a little bit 
Or should I leave it at that?
I like my rebound pretty fast anyway…


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Try increasing the damping, it may sound counter intuitive, but it actually makes the fork quite a bit more plush in certain scenarios, same with rebound.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Dougal said:


> It's not faster rebound you guys need. It's a change in rebound curve shape. I'm working on a kit right now.


Thanks Dougal. 
I know you said you would. I didn't think I needed it as much as I do now. I was expecting to have the simple task of removing a 13mm shim. But to be honnest I'm a bit stumped at the moment.
Also I'm not sure I understand the problem I have 100% yet, although at a guess, I'd say the HSC, from deep in the travel is the main culprit, as I can get the wheel to bounce slightly by doing small tests on the bars if I manage to get my hands out the way quick enough. 

I may try the lighter oil band aid until you're done.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Bosbefok said:


> Thanks Dougal.
> I know you said you would. I didn't think I needed it as much as I do now. I was expecting to have the simple task of removing a 13mm shim. But to be honnest I'm a bit stumped at the moment.
> Also I'm not sure I understand the problem I have 100% yet, although at a guess, I'd say the HSC, from deep in the travel is the main culprit, as I can get the wheel to bounce slightly by doing small tests on the bars if I manage to get my hands out the way quick enough.
> 
> I may try the lighter oil band aid until you're done.


So I did the oil and it didn't really work. As some of you have noted, I need the rebound curve to change. I probably need to increase mid speed rebound as I don't use the pressures the heavier guys do, and therefore don't get the shaft speeds.

Will open up again and do the shim swaps. 

When putting it together last night I just tore everything down, as I only opened up the main air chamber before to adjust the travel. Its on page 1, but I seriously recommend stripping the whole air spring down and greasing wigh low viscosity grease as specified. My fork feels notably smoother.


----------



## pedronicman (Jun 9, 2020)

I have managed to get hold of a set of the Green SKF 37mm seals and foam wiper’s for the Mezzer ,
Various online shops in Europe seem to sell them but they are quite expensive , the SKF part number for the kit is MTB37MU


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

I'm sure this is buried in the thread somewhere, but is it necessary to empty the air from the lower valve before changing the pressure in the IRT? Coming from an MRP Ribbon where its necessary to empty the neg spring before the setting the pos spring pressure.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

No need to, unless the IRT pressure drops below the main chamber's.


----------



## pedronicman (Jun 9, 2020)

If anyone is interested J tech in the uk are selling 37mm seal drivers here-









J-TECH Suspension Seal Press


J-TECH Suspension Seal Press Want to keep on top of your forks lower leg servicing? Well this just got even easier with our new J-TECH Suspension Seal Press. Precisely machined from a high durability polymer to help you out for years to come. available in sizes from 32mm to 40mm. Compatible with...




j-techsuspension.co.uk


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

pedronicman said:


> If anyone is interested J tech in the uk are selling 37mm seal drivers here-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've 3D printed a 37mm driver, but have not tried it yet. The site wouldn't allow me to upload a .stl file so I changed the extension to .pdf. Change back to .stl to print.


----------



## ToniT (Jun 1, 2018)

I was scrolling through this thread, and saw that lighter riders would benefit from removing a shim from the compression stack.
Was just curious if there is any guide for doing that?


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

ToniT said:


> I was scrolling through this thread, and saw that lighter riders would benefit from removing a shim from the compression stack.
> Was just curious if there is any guide for doing that?


See post #1 in this thread. There's a PDF guide 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

ToniT said:


> I was scrolling through this thread, and saw that lighter riders would benefit from removing a shim from the compression stack.
> Was just curious if there is any guide for doing that?


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

So I've been getting some ride time on this fork. Something I am noticing is that the rebound seems slow coming off of the face of jumps which is making the bike dive. I'm not sure if this would be the low speed or high speed rebound in play here, but it feels to me that the rebound needs to be a little quicker. The MFG date of my fork is July 2021. Any comments on this?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

polarflux said:


> So I've been getting some ride time on this fork. Something I am noticing is that the rebound seems slow coming off of the face of jumps which is making the bike dive. I'm not sure if this would be the low speed or high speed rebound in play here, but it feels to me that the rebound needs to be a little quicker. The MFG date of my fork is July 2021. Any comments on this?


Where is your rebound set? 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

polarflux said:


> So I've been getting some ride time on this fork. Something I am noticing is that the rebound seems slow coming off of the face of jumps which is making the bike dive. I'm not sure if this would be the low speed or high speed rebound in play here, but it feels to me that the rebound needs to be a little quicker. The MFG date of my fork is July 2021. Any comments on this?


That's high speed rebound. I'm running a very different setup and, if I can get a few free dyno days, will have a kit to sell.


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

CCS86 said:


> Where is your rebound set?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


3 or 4 from open roughly, but if what Dougal said below is correct then it doesn’t really matter since the HSR characteristic is set via the shim stack.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

polarflux said:


> 3 or 4 from open roughly, but if what Dougal said below is correct then it doesn’t really matter since the HSR characteristic is set via the shim stack.


I think there is some crossover. Try it wide open. It helped my jumping balance. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

CCS86 said:


> I think there is some crossover. Try it wide open. It helped my jumping balance.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Will do.


----------



## sselhtrim (Nov 6, 2021)

Can I assume that mezzer expert uses the same travel reducer kit as the pro?

Looking to get a mezzer expert to 150mm


----------



## sselhtrim (Nov 6, 2021)

I read there was also a method to suck the fork down to desired travel?


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

Yes, Expert and Pro uses the same travel reducers. You can also compress the fork to desired travel with the pump connected to the main chamber. When disconnecting the shock pump the fork should stay put, as long as the shock pump head is not too worn out. A dual stage pump is highly recommended. I've found pumps with the normal single-stage head wears out quite fast and causes issues with improper pressure balance between the pos and neg chamber way too easily.


----------



## sselhtrim (Nov 6, 2021)

Two_bricks said:


> Yes, Expert and Pro uses the same travel reducers. You can also compress the fork to desired travel with the pump connected to the main chamber. When disconnecting the shock pump the fork should stay put, as long as the shock pump head is not too worn out. A dual stage pump is highly recommended. I've found pumps with the normal single-stage head wears out quite fast and causes issues with improper pressure balance between the pos and neg chamber way too easily.


Thanks for the info, will probably order my mezzer soon to go on a NS eccentric.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Got a Mezzer Expert this afternoon to go on my wife's bike. Wanted to travel it down from 180 to 160mm. So undo the 2mm allen key. But the rebound knob is pretty well stuck (does turn fine though). Did some of the "loctite" seep into the knob interface? The gap behind the knob is too thin to get anything more than a thin too flexy knive blade behind it. Pliers did not work yet either.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

CS645 said:


> Got a Mezzer Expert this afternoon to go on my wife's bike. Wanted to travel it down from 180 to 160mm. So undo the 2mm allen key. But the rebound knob is pretty well stuck (does turn fine though). Did some of the "loctite" seep into the knob interface? The gap behind the knob is too thin to get anything more than a thin too flexy knive blade behind it. Pliers did not work yet either.


Yeah, mine was all jammed up with loctite too. Throw some heat at it. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Yeah, mine was all jammed up with loctite too. Throw some heat at it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Awesome, will give it a try!

For those interested Mezzer Expert 29 44OS: 2.125gr. with axle and full length steerer, but without fender.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

polarflux said:


> 3 or 4 from open roughly, but if what Dougal said below is correct then it doesn’t really matter since the HSR characteristic is set via the shim stack.


Dougal is correct. The stock Mezzer HSR is too slow for the stock air spring curve at 140-160mm travel. Reduction of IRT volume will help, as will altering the rebound shim stack.

The Mezzer dual pos chambers are nice for tuning, but one needs to remember there’s also an extra air piston with associated downsides. Overcoming initial stiction being a large downside, or possible tuning feature if you time it correctly


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> Dougal is correct. The stock Mezzer HSR is too slow for the stock air spring curve at 140-160mm travel. Reduction of IRT volume will help, as will altering the rebound shim stack.
> 
> The Mezzer dual pos chambers are nice for tuning, but one needs to remember there’s also an extra air piston with associated downsides. Overcoming initial stiction being a large downside, or possible tuning feature if you time it correctly


I don't see the initial stiction of the IRT as much of a downside. At absolute worst it would cause a tiny anomaly in the spring curve. Nothing like the impact of stiction in the main piston seal. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Yeah, mine was all jammed up with loctite too. Throw some heat at it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Used a paint stripper, still couldn't get it off by hand so put the rebound knob in the vice (rebound knob can be easily replaced) and it took some but not ridiculous force to pull it off. Rebound knob came out relatively unscratched.

A _lot _of slickhoney on the air piston (same on my own).


----------



## daviduk (Jul 30, 2021)

ok im in a dilema lol

do i sell my fox36 2019 and buy a set of these mezzers or send my fox's off for Andreani piston and custom tune?

its going to cost me £260 in total for the fox doing (service,custom tune and piston and return postage at jtech suspension)
the mezzers i can get for £470 new,prob sell the fox for around £360.

do the mezzers need anything doing out of the box?

cheers


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

daviduk said:


> ok im in a dilema lol
> 
> do i sell my fox36 2019 and buy a set of these mezzers or send my fox's off for Andreani piston and custom tune?
> 
> ...


Depending on your weight nothing you can’t do yourself with the help of this thread and even if you don’t touch the Mezzer it’s far superior to a 2019 36 out of the box based on my experience. Buy the Mezzer and save the hassle of going through hassle and expense of getting the Fox modified. In the end you’ll also have a 2022 fork over a 2019 fork.


----------



## daviduk (Jul 30, 2021)

OzIbis said:


> Depending on your weight nothing you can’t do yourself with the help of this thread and even if you don’t touch the Mezzer it’s far superior to a 2019 36 out of the box based on my experience. Buy the Mezzer and save the hassle of going through hassle and expense of getting the Fox modified. In the end you’ll also have a 2022 fork over a 2019 fork.



im 95 kg rtr,bike is a focus jam carbon 29


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

daviduk said:


> im 95 kg rtr,bike is a focus jam carbon 29


At 95kg you won’t need to do any shim mods like us lighter riders do. It will just be tuning and it’s a very tuneable fork. I think you will be totally stoked with a Mezzer Pro.


----------



## The_Bob (Jan 16, 2018)

Looking at a Mezzer for one of my bikes to replace a Pike. I'd like to know if the Mezzer comes with enough spacers to take it down. From 180mm to 150mm in the box. Also, is there a massive difference in performance between a Mezzer Pro and Comp? I'm around 75kg ready to ride and the bike is used on everything from smoothish bike park lines to our local enduro series. Nothing super chunky, but I'd like a stouter fork than the Pike


----------



## Twilight Error (Jan 12, 2004)

The_Bob said:


> Looking at a Mezzer for one of my bikes to replace a Pike. I'd like to know if the Mezzer comes with enough spacers to take it down. From 180mm to 150mm in the box. Also, is there a massive difference in performance between a Mezzer Pro and Comp? I'm around 75kg ready to ride and the bike is used on everything from smoothish bike park lines to our local enduro series. Nothing super chunky, but I'd like a stouter fork than the Pike


Yes, the Mezzer comes with all the spacers you'll need, so if you can't find one set to 150, you'll be able adjust it yourself. The only thing not included that you will need is the tool to remove the air spring from the stanction; its a modified cassette lockring tool, cut out to allow it to pass over the spring shaft.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Twilight Error said:


> Yes, the Mezzer comes with all the spacers you'll need, so if you can't find one set to 150, you'll be able adjust it yourself. The only thing not included that you will need is the tool to remove the air spring from the stanction; its a modified cassette lockring tool, cut out to allow it to pass over the spring shaft.


You can use a standard SRAM cassette tool though you don’t have to have the one with the cut out.


----------



## Chubb (Jun 27, 2011)

Two_bricks said:


> Yes, Expert and Pro uses the same travel reducers. You can also compress the fork to desired travel with the pump connected to the main chamber. When disconnecting the shock pump the fork should stay put, as long as the shock pump head is not too worn out. A dual stage pump is highly recommended. I've found pumps with the normal single-stage head wears out quite fast and causes issues with improper pressure balance between the pos and neg chamber way too easily.


How does it ride with the travel lowered like this without reducers? Does the extra negative volume improve or detract from the air spring performance? My guess from prior posts is that the Pro models with IRT won't benefit, but maybe the Expert models with IVA will be improved?


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

CCS86 said:


> I think there is some crossover. Try it wide open. It helped my jumping balance.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Rode the fork with one click in from full open rebound and the fork was slow off of the lips of the jumps I was riding. Opened up the fork to full open and there was pop! Much better, but that is not much adjustment range. I guess I'll have to wait for Dougal's shim kit.


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

I read in another thread that that the IRT volume should be adjusted according to the travel of the fork. This was a Mattoc thread that I was looking at trying to understand the IRT function a bit better, but part of the discussion was that the IRT volume should be proportional to main air spring volume. What is the word on this? If so, it makes a travel change a sort of half assed thing unless something is done about the IRT. This fork is going to suck up all of time and money just tuning it.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

polarflux said:


> I read in another thread that that the IRT volume should be adjusted according to the travel of the fork. This was a Mattoc thread that I was looking at trying to understand the IRT function a bit better, but part of the discussion was that the IRT volume should be proportional to main air spring volume. What is the word on this? If so, it makes a travel change a sort of half assed thing unless something is done about the IRT. This fork is going to suck up all of time and money just tuning it.




No one is adjusting IRT volume to match travel. I can't see how a Mezzer would "suck up" all your time and money to tune it. It doesn't _need_ tuning beyond clickers. And even if you want to, that is cheap and easy. People sink staggering amounts of money into RS forks just to get them bearable. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

polarflux said:


> I read in another thread that that the IRT volume should be adjusted according to the travel of the fork. This was a Mattoc thread that I was looking at trying to understand the IRT function a bit better, but part of the discussion was that the IRT volume should be proportional to main air spring volume. What is the word on this? If so, it makes a travel change a sort of half assed thing unless something is done about the IRT. This fork is going to suck up all of time and money just tuning it.


Generally speaking for any given rider weight the starting pressure is lower in the main as you go up in travel. So the same rider using 170mm travel will have a slightly lower starting pressure than the same rider using 160mm travel. IRT to main pressure is a ratio. There is no set ratio that works for everyone because it depends on whether you want more or less progression. The ratio I find that works quite well for most people I’ve helped to set up the Mezzer Pro is for 160mm travel set the IRT to your weight in kg’s and divide that by 1.65 and set your main pressure to that. It won’t be perfect for everyone but generally speaking it will get most people in the ballpark. It should be just fine tuning a couple of psi here or there and playing with the clickers. For 170mm travel reduce those figures by approx 6% and you should be reasonably close. These are just my findings but they have worked time and time again for multiple different people.


----------



## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

So I've got a hand full of rides on my new Mezzer Pro. 
190lbs geared up; 29" fork factory set at 160mm, 44mm offset.
Started at a mix of settings from CC386's charts on the first page: 
IRT 82
M 55
H 3
L 3
R7
I did no other stuff; didn't pull the lowers, nothing. Fork felt amazing! Riding medium west slope CO chunk. I could have easily just have left it there and forget it, and been happy. But, after reading way too much of this thread, I wanted to see what the lower limit was.
IRT 80
M 52
H 3
L 5
R 6
This feels even better but , I've only been able to check it out on smooth, flowy trails with a couple 3' hucks to flat; still only 75% of travel. I'm going to keep settings here as I up the chunk to Lunch Loops and Moab adding more clicks first and more pressure as ness.
I'm 53yrs and have been riding hard since 1990, while I've throttled back a little in the recent years, I still like to crush the downhills.🤪
One take-a-way, despite all of the tinkering in this thread, this can totally be a "set it and forget it" fork. Don't be afraid!


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

CCS86 said:


> No one is adjusting IRT volume to match travel. I can't see how a Mezzer would "suck up" all your time and money to tune it. It doesn't _need_ tuning beyond clickers. And even if you want to, that is cheap and easy. People sink staggering amounts of money into RS forks just to get them bearable.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Ha, I am not being very serious. I would not have gone with this fork if otherwise. There are a few things I would like to sort out and they are just set up issues and tuning I would like to do, but overall I think the fork is great so far.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

Chubb said:


> How does it ride with the travel lowered like this without reducers? Does the extra negative volume improve or detract from the air spring performance? My guess from prior posts is that the Pro models with IRT won't benefit, but maybe the Expert models with IVA will be improved?


The difference in negative volume is the total volume of the spacer(s), so I'd doubt there would be much difference in ride feel with/without spacers. I've only used that feature briefly to dial in the correct travel and ride height though. No long-term use.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

CCS86 said:


> No one is adjusting IRT volume to match travel.


Not true. Reducing IRT volume was the first mod I did, and possibly the most beneficial.

Adjusting IRT volume costs maybe a couple dollars in parts (plastic washers to space IRT piston further from end of IRT shaft) and takes less than 5 minutes.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> Not true. Reducing IRT volume was the first mod I did, and possibly the most beneficial.
> 
> Adjusting IRT volume costs maybe a couple dollars in parts (plastic washers to space IRT piston further from end of IRT shaft) and takes less than 5 minutes.


I wasn't trying to be literal. Just illustrating the point that the vast majority of people are not doing that, and it doesn't cause problems.

It's all preference anyway, how you like the spring curve shaped. Reducing travel and maintaining IRT volume will give you a more linear (coil like) spring curve. This pairs really well with hydraulic bottom out. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Just pointing out that the Expert is IVA and one can and should adjust volume when changing travel. Acronyms can fog the mind in a Pro dominated tech page. 
I've updated to IRT but, I felt the IVA was more plush when riding at "expert" speed on chunky flatter tertian . IRT helps a bit when I'm trying to be a rad wannabe hack "Pro" with brake dive or stuffing into stuff. Hard to beat an expert on sale if you don't start obsessing on tech or wormholeing a sports car Cadillac monster truck spiral.


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

CCS86 said:


> I wasn't trying to be literal. Just illustrating the point that the vast majority of people are not doing that, and it doesn't cause problems.
> 
> It's all preference anyway, how you like the spring curve shaped. Reducing travel and maintaining IRT volume will give you a more linear (coil like) spring curve. This pairs really well with hydraulic bottom out.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Perhaps this has been said somewhere, and I have watched the Manitou IRT video, but I'm not totally sure I really understand how the IRT spring works. I'll take a stab at it and perhaps somebody else can straighten me out if I am wrong. The IRT works by effectively increasing the volume of the main air spring by creating a space the main air spring can push into. Adjusting the pressure of the IRT controls how much the main air spring ramps up. The point of this is to allow the main air spring to operate at a higher pressure to offer mid stroke support while also being able to achieve full travel (at reasonable, sub-light speeds). Changing the IRT pressure controls the overall spring assembly curve. Increasing IRT pressure flattens the curve (to a point). Lowering the IRT pressure creates a more progressive spring curve with less mid stroke support. Is this even a close summary?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

polarflux said:


> lowering the IRT pressure creates a more progressive spring curve with less mid stroke support.


I find it to be the opposite. Lowering IRT (ratio) creates a more linear spring.


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

EatsDirt said:


> I find it to be the opposite. Lowering IRT (ratio) creates a more linear spring.


Yeah, that does make more sense. The higher the IRT pressure the more the main piston pressure will ramp up toward the end of stroke. Makes sense.


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

IRT IVA side by side


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

IVA on max volume and IRT vented are basically the same.


----------



## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

few rides in on the mezzer pro 29 @130mm on my hardtail
~76kg naked, 47 psi main and 80 IRT with about 4 clicks of lsc
the main pressure sounds like it should be too low.. still im probbaly only using 90mm of travel atm, which is fine, i havent tried anything serious on it
Fork feels fimr, in a good way, like its very well damped, yet returns quickly, it feels night and day different to my mattoc pro 27.5 @160..... not that theres anything wrong with the mattoc
breakaway doesnt appear to be particularly light and the mid support seems really good.


----------



## Captaintom (5 mo ago)

Hallo, ich bin neu hier.
Ich habe mir einen Mezzer Pro 29 gekauft.
Ich habe sie auf 160 Reisen umgebaut.
Jetzt merke ich, dass sich die Federgabel zusammenzieht und nur noch ca. 145 mm Federweg hat, weil sie sich immer zusammenzieht. ich glaube ich habe einen Unterdruck der das zusammenziehen verursacht.
Jetzt die Frage:
Habe ich beim Zusammenbau oder beim Befüllen der Gabel mit Luft etwas falsch gemacht?
Hinweis: Ich habe immer zuerst das IRT ausgefüllt.


----------



## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

make sure the fork is fully extended when connecting the pump to the main air spring. if it is sagged, it will stay that way when the valve is opened


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

Captaintom said:


> Hallo, ich bin neu hier.
> Ich habe mir einen Mezzer Pro 29 gekauft.
> Ich habe sie auf 160 Reisen umgebaut.
> Jetzt merke ich, dass sich die Federgabel zusammenzieht und nur noch ca. 145 mm Federweg hat, weil sie sich immer zusammenzieht. ich glaube ich habe einen Unterdruck der das zusammenziehen verursacht.
> ...


ich glaube du wirst auf deutsche Posts nicht so viele Antworten hier bekommen  

Letztlich wäre der Plan, die Verschraubungen am Casting vom Dämpfer bzw. Federschaft zu lösen, die Gabel auf 160mm auseinander zu ziehen, schauen das im Casting kein Unterdruck ist und dann alles wieder festzuschrauben

(and in general: this looks more like a google translate version of an english post than native german, "160 Reisen" means "160 journey" as wrong translation of travel etc.)


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Anyone deal with their rebound knob tightening on its own? I'll set it at 4 from open. And be 7-8 after a chunky ride.


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

More on pressure setting of mezzer; I had a chance to go to bike park and I spent some time on an easy trail just to tune the fork; these the basic datas:
Bike: 29" clone of santa cruz hightower, slack and very long.
rider: 82 Kg - 180 lb.
Experience: low profile, mostly flow trails, small jumps no big air.
Settings I chose at the end: main 30 psi , IRT 60 psi, hydraulics: all open, maybe 1-2 click closed.

I know I am running probably the lowest main pressure of the world but: my bike is really long and slack, maybe this affects the settings somehow; the sag is correct, around 20-25 mm; I use almost all stroke during my ride but I never bottom out.
I tried with higher pressures, but it makes the ride more harsh on small bumps; to increase support I preferred to increase the IRT pressure instead; closing the slo-high hydraulics don't give me any positive feelings, I prefer the wide open, or maybe just 1 click as a placebo, I imagine this is needed for the big jumpers, big droppers (not me).
I keep rebound wide open too but I didn't practice with this too much....here maybe some clicks could be beneficial.
Some consideration on the bike: (my previous bike was a specialized endure expert 26" 160 mm fork) it's a fantastic bike on the flowy trails, the faster I go the smoother the ride seems to be; it's more difficult and less fun that the 26" on the jumps, being so big and so long.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

So this happened. I was just going to service my lowers, and was just compressing the damper, when suddenly it gave up and the bladder came off. Anything I should do while I rebuild the damper? Considering making my rebound stack lighter. Bought last year, and was the latest then.









Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk


----------



## Fleijah (Jun 18, 2019)

Installed my Mezzer today. Would like to know what MY it is. Found the product code on the lower, do I enter it somewhere to find out what MY it is?


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Fleijah said:


> Installed my Mezzer today. Would like to know what MY it is. Found the product code on the lower, do I enter it somewhere to find out what MY it is?


Check the label on the box

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk


----------



## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

So my bike fell over today an put a dent in the lowers of my "not so new anymore" Mezzer Pro.
Dent is small but noticeable, fairly low on the lowers; just above the U. Fork seemed perfect on my ride, wondering if this may cause issues when I reach the end of travel area (I didn't on the flowy trails today). Seems like it must be below the bushings... Please tell me that I'm ok!


----------



## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

Left leg, air chamber.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

rtsideup said:


> So my bike fell over today an put a dent in the lowers of my "not so new anymore" Mezzer Pro.
> Dent is small but noticeable, fairly low on the lowers; just above the U. Fork seemed perfect on my ride, wondering if this may cause issues when I reach the end of travel area (I didn't on the flowy trails today). Seems like it must be below the bushings... Please tell me that I'm ok!


Unless you have someone take it apart and look. They probably couldn't tell you. Let the air out and put it through it's travel. And see if it bind up anywhere.


----------



## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

Seems to move easily through its travel with the pump attached.


----------



## Pedro46 (Apr 12, 2017)

Can anyone confirm that when setting the IRT pressure using a digital pump the chamber loses around 5psi when the pumped detached and removed ?

example - I wanted to set the IRT to 88 psi so did that unscrewed the pump screwe back on and was 82….
so I pumped it up to 92 then unscrewed , then screwed on and it was 88 ,
did a ride today in warm weather , after a long run back to the van checked the pressure and it was 89…..
I just think that the pressure that you set it to actually ends up being less than you think……
any thoughts?
thanks


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

No, that's how much pressure the IRT chamber loses when connecting your particular pump, not disconnecting. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Pedro46 (Apr 12, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> No, that's how much pressure the IRT chamber loses when connecting your particular pump, not disconnecting.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


thanks


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Pedro46 said:


> thanks


You can practice pre-pressurizing the pump. You screw it on only until it builds pressure when you pump, but doesn't open the chamber valve. Pump it to the pressure you expect to be in there, then screw the rest of the way on. The pressure change will be much smaller. Takes some practice. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Pedro46 (Apr 12, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> You can practice pre-pressurizing the pump. You screw it on only until it builds pressure when you pump, but doesn't open the chamber valve. Pump it to the pressure you expect to be in there, then screw the rest of the way on. The pressure change will be much smaller. Takes some practice.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Ok will give it a go thanks


----------



## ToniT (Jun 1, 2018)

Ok so just to report back on my knocking issue I had.
Took some time the previous weekend and took the whole fork apart and reassembled back - knocking gone. I have no idea what the issue was - I didn't notice anything being loose while doing the disassembly.
So yes I was wrong by thinking it was the bushings - so thanks to everyone who proved me wrong...really happy that the fork is performing well now.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Dougal said:


> That's high speed rebound. I'm running a very different setup and, if I can get a few free dyno days, will have a kit to sell.


Bit of an update to my tinkerings. Im 70kg fully kitted and wanted to speed up rebound and soften the compression.
I found out I have the "other" rebound stack when opening mine up to speed up rebound. Not knowing what to do I went with a band aid solution, which was using a lighter fork oil with a viscosity of 10 in stead of 15 which It comes with. While the damper was open I removed the one 17.5mm compression shim and used a 16mm, just as I was not sure the compression would be light enough with the oil change. I am aware that this info is only usefull in this very specific case, but until I am sure of a rebound tune I was just going to try this.

Well I am pleasantly surprised. Rebound can be one click faster still, but its OK, not packing anymore, and not feeling dead when trying to lift the front end. But the compression is just so good. I came here to experience real suspension performance and I'm starting to understand it. I'm running the airspring softer than recommended by about 3-4psi in the main, and 5 in the IRT. I get quite a bit of sag standing and centered over the bike(30mm) which I wasn't initially so sure of but gave it a try anyway. Well let me tell you. It now hoovers up small bumps, actually any bumps. Still, It does not blow through travel, and I'm only using 80% of the travel most of the time. With really usable HSC and LSC thats not making the fork feel harsh, just more support to push off when I wanted it. On very rocky stuff I'm running no HSC, so it can get out the way quicker. On our local big mountain called Jonkershoek (rocky heaven), this thing made some big hits disappear, where on my first ride before tuning, I had to stop 4 minutes into the run as I could not hold on any longer. But this time I was grinning from ear to ear, thinking THE KNIFE to myself. I could now also start to notice and appreciate the structural stiffness of the bigger fork compared to the Pike as I was not getting beaten up. I took 30 seconds off my PR on a 7 minute trail.

I'm in no rush for the update Dougal, but I will try it out if made available.

I added 1ml of bath oil in each of the airchambers when opening the fork up as well, and the fork is now so smooth, I wont even want a bushing sizing. Obviously there is a degree of luck involved, but If your fork is new, DO pull the airspring apart as recommended on the 1st page.


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

Hello everyone. Thank you to all who contributed to this thread. I just got my Mezzer pro yesterday MY 2022/3/1.
I reduced the travel to 160, greased the pistons, replaced the oil and check bushings for burnishing but it wasn’t needed.
My questions is regarding the lower leg assembly.

Can you damage the damper shaft if you turn the lower leg nut few times without counter wrenching? I noticed that shaft started turning with the nut until I used a socket wrench to counter force it. I didn’t realise that the shaft will keep spinning if you don’t use socket wrench to torque the nuts. Coming from Lyrik, there was no need for a second wrench to make it tight. 
I hope my question makes sense.
TIA!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

slashIE said:


> Hello everyone. Thank you to all who contributed to this thread. I just got my Mezzer pro yesterday MY 2022/3/1.
> I reduced the travel to 160, greased the pistons, replaced the oil and check bushings for burnishing but it wasn’t needed.
> My questions is regarding the lower leg assembly.
> 
> ...


I did the same initially, and it did not damage the fork. I think the compression rod will just turn in damper. Although there are others more qualified to answer, I'd say there has to be some built in margin for stupidity in these things so idiots like me does not destroy a new fork before even using it as no one reads the manual right?


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

slashIE said:


> Can you damage the damper shaft if you turn the lower leg nut few times without counter wrenching? I noticed that shaft started turning with the nut until I used a socket wrench to counter force it. I didn’t realise that the shaft will keep spinning if you don’t use socket wrench to torque the nuts. Coming from Lyrik, there was no need for a second wrench to make it tight.


You are supposed to hold the 14mm nut and turn the shaft. You tighten to about 4Nm. Download the service manual from Manitou, it's pretty good. Learn it. Know it. Live it.


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

Just to reiterate what a few others have posted, the Mezzer Pro works great without all the tinkering, shimming, and tweaking. It's adjustable and easy to work on, so it's a faff magnet, but it's great as-is. For those considering the fork, just look at the recommended settings on P1 of this thread, set it, and go!


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

Velodonata said:


> You are supposed to hold the 14mm nut and turn the shaft. You tighten to about 4Nm. Download the service manual from Manitou, it's pretty good. Learn it. Know it. Live it.


Yes, I do have the manual, just missed a small part. What you are saying basically confirms that there is no damage since you can turn the shaft. All is clear here, and I am all sorted.
Thanks.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

juice said:


> Just to reiterate what a few others have posted, the Mezzer Pro works great without all the tinkering, shimming, and tweaking. It's adjustable and easy to work on, so it's a faff magnet, but it's great as-is. For those considering the fork, just look at the recommended settings on P1 of this thread, set it, and go!


I agree. I'm a spoiled custom tuned suspension guy that likes to tinker with stuff. But out of the box this is a great fork. Better than a 36,38, lyric and even the EXT Era. I replaced an Era for Mezzer.


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

Yeahh... I am using low pressures probably because even with knobs wide open there is still too much hydraulic brake; I start to think that the shims mod is the way to go. Anyway getting a good tuning at first attempt isn't probably easy, but if you don't get enough damping you can still close the knobs.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

For anybody that’s interested, there’s a Manitou sale going on at Jenson USA - 40% off until 28 Aug. Mezzer Pro’s for $649.99 USD






Mountain & Road Bikes, Bike Parts, Clothing and Accessories On Sale | Jenson USA







www.jensonusa.com


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

darius72 said:


> Yeahh... I am using low pressures probably because even with knobs wide open there is still too much hydraulic brake; I start to think that the shims mod is the way to go. Anyway getting a good tuning at first attempt isn't probably easy, but if you don't get enough damping you can still close the knobs.


You sound like you need the mod. Its not very hard at all, Just follow the instructions from page1 . What's your weight?


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

Bosbefok said:


> You sound like you need the mod. Its not very hard at all, Just follow the instructions from page1 . What's your weight?


I am 83 Kg, now running 30 psi main 60 psi IRT all hydraulics full open; as a first step maybe I will flush the stock damper oil that is 5wt 15cst viscosity with a 2.5wt 10 cst viscosity like the rockshox or putoline.
The flush is easyer than the shim job...and maybe enough?
Moreover I have only 300 km total on the fork but I remember I found some blue oil in the lowers, meaning that it leaked out from the damper; I guess this is normal, I don't know how it could possibly affct performance.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

How is the friction going? Does it have much resistance when pushing without any air spring, damper, seals etc?


----------



## Ixcel (Nov 28, 2018)

Hello,
I am looking to build up an aggressive hardtail. The RSD middlechild or canfield Yelli Screami. I am riding a GG shred Dogg with a 2021 DVO diamond 160mm up front and a custom fat bike with a 2019 Manitou Mastodon pro 120mm. I love them both. 

I am thinking the hardtail would have 140-150mm of travel with 27.5x2.6 combo. I have talked to both canfield and rsd about this set up. Both the frames are 29er capable and would potentially change over in the future. I have a 27.5 wheelset on hand and spare 27.5 tires making the build initially cheaper.

Should I get a 29er fork and run my 27.5 wheelset to keep my future options open? Or go 27.5 fork and call it good? 

I like having the internal travel option of Manitou, DVO, Cane Creek. I have been looking at the Diamond D1, Mezzer Pro, and Helm Mark ll. 

Thanks for any input


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

When I change


hssp said:


> How is the friction going? Does it have much resistance when pushing without any air spring, damper, seals etc?


When I adjusted the travel I lubed the air piston and everything looked smooth; later I tried connecting a pump and also smooth enough I would say; what they say in the forum is that if you need too low pressure than there is too much damping, so lighter oils and shims is the way to go. Maybe I will try just the oil at first


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

darius72 said:


> I am 83 Kg, now running 30 psi main 60 psi IRT all hydraulics full open; as a first step maybe I will flush the stock damper oil that is 5wt 15cst viscosity with a 2.5wt 10 cst viscosity like the rockshox or putoline.
> The flush is easyer than the shim job...and maybe enough?
> Moreover I have only 300 km total on the fork but I remember I found some blue oil in the lowers, meaning that it leaked out from the damper; I guess this is normal, I don't know how it could possibly affct performance.


What are you trying to solve actually?
If the fork feels good at whatever pressures, then those are the right pressures. 

The damper is designed to bleed off excess oil, so your bladder won't explode 
Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

romulin said:


> What are you trying to solve actually?


I am using pressures way lower than recommended and than anybody else; if I go up with main the front end becomes very shaky on flow trails; my hydraulics are full open and if I close them it gets worse.
I found a compromise at 30-60 psi , the fork is good but not plushy. I think all this are indications that there is too much dampening (for me), and as I read here about shim stack mod, lighter oil probably I am not alone.
If you are from Switzerland I can say that I need a fork that can eliminate the bumps on a long alpine trail descent; I don't do big jumps or drops so I don't care about "support" for these tricks.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

darius72 said:


> I am 83 Kg, now running 30 psi main 60 psi IRT all hydraulics full open; as a first step maybe I will flush the stock damper oil that is 5wt 15cst viscosity with a 2.5wt 10 cst viscosity like the rockshox or putoline.
> The flush is easyer than the shim job...and maybe enough?
> Moreover I have only 300 km total on the fork but I remember I found some blue oil in the lowers, meaning that it leaked out from the damper; I guess this is normal, I don't know how it could possibly affct performance.


Sounds like you need a new pump.


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

springs said:


> Sounds like you need a new pump.


Do you mean faulty pressure gauge? I have two pumps (non digital), same reading.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

Something's off with either your fork or shock pump. At your weight the shim swap is not necessary. If you compress the fork while having the pump attached, will it stay put when you de-attach the pump? A worn out seal head will easily mess up the pressure balance between the pos. and neg. chambers. A two-stage pump is recommended.

Tight bushings can also be the culprit.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

darius72 said:


> Do you mean faulty pressure gauge? I have two pumps (non digital), same reading.


Yeah could be. I went back and quickly read your posts...what head angle is your bike? You say it's very slack.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

darius72 said:


> I am using pressures way lower than recommended and than anybody else; if I go up with main the front end becomes very shaky on flow trails; my hydraulics are full open and if I close them it gets worse.
> I found a compromise at 30-60 psi , the fork is good but not plushy. I think all this are indications that there is too much dampening (for me), and as I read here about shim stack mod, lighter oil probably I am not alone.
> If you are from Switzerland I can say that I need a fork that can eliminate the bumps on a long alpine trail descent; I don't do big jumps or drops so I don't care about "support" for these tricks.


With the pump attached can you easily push the fork to bottom out? 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

the bike has 65 or 65.5 degrees head angle I am not sure now, it is a clone of santa cruz hightower; with the pump connected I can easily compress the fork.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

What happens if you attach the pump, compress the fork to e.g. 50% travel, and then unscrew the pump. Will the fork stay put or extend?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

darius72 said:


> the bike has 65 or 65.5 degrees head angle I am not sure now, it is a clone of santa cruz hightower; with the pump connected I can easily compress the fork.


I was expecting slacker than that! Yeah try a different pump first. If that's not it then check the bushing clearance. 

BUT...you say it's riding well so you could just ride it until it needs a service in the meantime.


----------



## pedronicman (Jun 9, 2020)

You must adjust both chambers with the fork unweighted and fork fully extended


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

I will repeat testing with the fork disassembled; anybody has tried a lighter damper oil? Any feedback on this?


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

I really don't think he's got a mechanical problem.

1st analog pump on a fork where 1ps makes a noticeable difference, means eyeballing at best
2nd spreadsheet row #19 is A guy 180lb, 160mm fork (assuming that's what you have) on a Pole running very similar pressures to yours, because the bike is long
3rd 30/60 is a very high ratio, with maybe too much ramp, and you get there easily, cause low main pressure. I'd try a few psi more in main, a bit less in irt. Try to keep it at the same sag
4th can't imagine anyone running all the dials open on this fork. If Rebound is too slow at full open, your main pressure is too low. When I've run this fork soft (-5 psi from guide), LSC closed was the most plush, try it 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

romulin said:


> 1st analog pump on a fork where 1ps makes a noticeable difference, means eyeballing at best
> 2nd spreadsheet row #19 is A guy 180lb, 160mm fork (assuming that's what you have) on a Pole running very similar pressures to yours, because the bike is long
> 3rd 30/60 is a very high ratio, with maybe too much ramp, and you get there easily, cause low main pressure. I'd try a few psi more in main, a bit less in irt. Try to keep it at the same sag
> 4th can't imagine anyone running all the dials open on this fork. If Rebound is too slow at full open, your main pressure is too low. When I've run this fork soft (-5 psi from guide), LSC closed was the most
> Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


 Romulin, thank you very much!
yes the bike is very long, I have problems fitting it in the back of my car and this is the biggest problem with it 🤣.
Recently I have studyed more about how damper works: the LSC reduces oil flow through and orifice with a needle valve; HSC is preload on a spring that in case of big impact open extra oil orifices. So probably you are right, giving maybe 5 clicks of LSC and then reducing the oil flow there it will force the HSC valve to open earlier; studying the spreadsheet I see almost everybody closes LSC (average 5,1 clicks) but few users give many clicks of HSC (average 3.2 from closed where max is 4).
Probably going from 30/60 psi to 35/50 needs a a trial too.
I also see that the modifiers of the compressions shims are all happy and they say it's a big improvement; when I have time I will start with lo-vis oil.


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

I wanted to share my initial feedback on Mezzer PRO that I bought bike-discount last week. I don’t have digital pump yet, it’s coming next week so my quoted settings will be ballpark. 

I ride enduro style, but don’t jump. I do drops of around. 3ft/1m. Fork is mounted on Sentinel V2 63.5HTA with 160 travel. My geared weight is around 89kg/190lbs.

Before mounting the fork on a bike, I did the full service , greased the pistons and put Motorex 0-30 oil in to the lowers and 1ml into the air chambers.

I literally went out once midweek for a very short spin to set the baseline. However, yesterday I put this fork through their paces. I think I run something around 95-90IRT and 50-53 Main. I’ll keep the air as it is for now until I get the digital pump next week to confirm the exact settings. My travel usage was very efficient, see attached picture. I rode through root and rocks repeatedly on long descents and didn’t have hand fatigue. I’m sharing this to say that this fork is really good as is! I will probably play with settings again, but I am very happy with the initial setup.


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

Hey, just reaching out to this thread. I'd like to burning the bushing in my fork and am wondering if anybody would rent me their tool for a bit? I'm in Alaska, so it would have to go through the mail, but if your are open to this hit me up. PM me if this is something you would be willing to do.

Thanks


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

polarflux said:


> Hey, just reaching out to this thread. I'd like to burning the bushing in my fork and am wondering if anybody would rent me their tool for a bit? I'm in Alaska, so it would have to go through the mail, but if your are open to this hit me up. PM me if this is something you would be willing to do.
> 
> Thanks


Did you test your bushing fit and find it to be tight? 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## polarflux (Jul 21, 2007)

CCS86 said:


> Did you test your bushing fit and find it to be tight?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Yeah, disassembled the lowers and found a bit of force is required to slide the lowers over the bushings.


----------



## Rem17 (7 mo ago)

Has anyone ever had a chirping sound from their fork when in hot weather or dusty conditions? Only happens on compressions where the fork might be flexing a bit.


----------



## Fleijah (Jun 18, 2019)

Are there any readily available semi-bath oil alternatives that can be used to top up the oil?
I lost some oil during a travel adjust procedure and am halfway through a downhill trip


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Fleijah said:


> Are there any readily available semi-bath oil alternatives that can be used to top up the oil?
> I lost some oil during a travel adjust procedure and am halfway through a downhill trip


I use a mix of Fox Gold and Mobil 1 0w-30. It works really well so just throwing in some Mobil 1 0w-30 will get you by until you get home if you can find some in an auto store.


----------



## Fleijah (Jun 18, 2019)

OzIbis said:


> I use a mix of Fox Gold and Mobil 1 0w-30. It works really well so just throwing in some Mobil 1 0w-30 will get you by until you get home if you can find some in an auto store.


So regular motor oil basically works as long as the thickness is good? I don't want to change any damping characteristics, so is 0w30 stock? 
First post of this thread mentioned 5w40


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Fleijah said:


> So regular motor oil basically works as long as the thickness is good? I don't want to change any damping characteristics, so is 0w30 stock?
> First post of this thread mentioned 5w40


If you got the mezzer pro which has a sealed damper it won't interfere with the damping,you can use any oil with similar thickness.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Mikel Knight said:


> If you got the mezzer pro which has a sealed damper it won't interfere with the damping,you can use any oil with similar thickness.


It won’t affect damping it’s only there for lubrication in the lowers. You can’t just use any oil but from experience Mobil 1 0w-30 is good in there when I mix it with the Fox Gold so I can’t see it being an issue by itself just to get by until you get home and do a lower service. After all it is designed to lubricate engine components that move a lot faster and get a lot hotter.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Fleijah said:


> So regular motor oil basically works as long as the thickness is good? I don't want to change any damping characteristics, so is 0w30 stock?
> First post of this thread mentioned 5w40


It's the slipperiness of the lube oil that matters. Also how thick it gets in the cold if that matters to you.

If you want to test lube oils, rub them between gloved fingers and see how smooth they run. A lot are not slippery at all!


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

I think I already know the answer but wanted to put it out there anyway. When I was riding Whistler bike park there were some instances where I would hit a large hole on the entrance or exit of a berm and it would feel very harsh, like the fork wasn’t moving when it hit. I’m happy the performance of the fork everywhere else, but this was really bad and I’m hoping I can alleviate it. My assumption of this is that there’s too much hsc, Which I’m usually running at 3 cfc right now. Lsc is 3-5 cfc. At 175lbs and a fairly aggressive rider, is it worth doing the compressesion shim mod to a 14mm or 15mm shim? My fork is 160mm 29”, pressures are set at 54/86psi which are higher than the spreadsheet suggests but I found those values to ride a little too deep in the stroke. I’m likely going to do this mod anyways this fall when I get some time, but just looking for some comfirmation that I’m headed in the right direction.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

kapolczer said:


> I think I already know the answer but wanted to put it out there anyway. When I was riding Whistler bike park there were some instances where I would hit a large hole on the entrance or exit of a berm and it would feel very harsh, like the fork wasn’t moving when it hit. I’m happy the performance of the fork everywhere else, but this was really bad and I’m hoping I can alleviate it. My assumption of this is that there’s too much hsc, Which I’m usually running at 3 cfc right now. Lsc is 3-5 cfc. At 175lbs and a fairly aggressive rider, is it worth doing the compressesion shim mod to a 14mm or 15mm shim? My fork is 160mm 29”, pressures are set at 54/86psi which are higher than the spreadsheet suggests but I found those values to ride a little too deep in the stroke. I’m likely going to do this mod anyways this fall when I get some time, but just looking for some comfirmation that I’m headed in the right direction.


At your weight I’d say yes do the shim mod. Probably put a 15mm shim in there and run your LSC 1 click from closed and open up the HSC or run just 1 click from open and see which you like. After you’ve done that try running 49 psi and 80 psi. 
I’m a little lighter than you at 75kg ready to ride now and have run it stock and with 12mm, 14mm and 15mm and have settled on the 14mm as being the best all round. The 15mm was really good but the 14mm was a tad nicer at my weight so I think you’ll find a similar feel with the 15mm being a little heavier.


----------



## tomstir (Mar 9, 2020)

Hey gang….
Just received my Mezzer pro 160 fork…. I got here from the ibis ripmo af thread and tanman and ozibis. I’m trying to get all the “needed” stuff on hand before it’s needed. The one thing I’m confused on is the “dual stage” head pump. I ordered one from eBay… I think it was linked from an earlier post… and I read it wrong or the wording was wrong…. It’s a “dual” pump for suspension and tires… uuuggghh. I haven’t read the entire thread… I’m maybe half way so if there is info about it sorry. But could I use the pump I have?…it’s digital so it would be easier to read all changes… but that may not be good enough 

My shock even though newly purchased has a 9/17/20 MY. I have or will have the oils soon so as per Tanman suggestion I’m going to open it up and see what the condition is. It would be nice to have this pump issue figured out too.
Tomstir


----------



## jlbanta (Apr 5, 2011)

Does the shim mod change the whole damping force curve? Or does it have a greater effect on LSC than HSC?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

kapolczer said:


> I think I already know the answer but wanted to put it out there anyway. When I was riding Whistler bike park there were some instances where I would hit a large hole on the entrance or exit of a berm and it would feel very harsh, like the fork wasn’t moving when it hit. I’m happy the performance of the fork everywhere else, but this was really bad and I’m hoping I can alleviate it. My assumption of this is that there’s too much hsc, Which I’m usually running at 3 cfc right now. Lsc is 3-5 cfc. At 175lbs and a fairly aggressive rider, is it worth doing the compressesion shim mod to a 14mm or 15mm shim? My fork is 160mm 29”, pressures are set at 54/86psi which are higher than the spreadsheet suggests but I found those values to ride a little too deep in the stroke. I’m likely going to do this mod anyways this fall when I get some time, but just looking for some comfirmation that I’m headed in the right direction.


Why don't you try opening the clickers before revalving?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

OzIbis said:


> At your weight I’d say yes do the shim mod. Probably put a 15mm shim in there and run your LSC 1 click from closed and open up the HSC or run just 1 click from open and see which you like. After you’ve done that try running 49 psi and 80 psi.
> I’m a little lighter than you at 75kg ready to ride now and have run it stock and with 12mm, 14mm and 15mm and have settled on the 14mm as being the best all round. The 15mm was really good but the 14mm was a tad nicer at my weight so I think you’ll find a similar feel with the 15mm being a little heavier.


Thanks for your feedback on this, it’s much appreciated!



CCS86 said:


> Why don't you try opening the clickers before revalving?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


These were the settings I ended up with after starting with everything wide open, trying extremes and slowly bracketing them in. 3 clicks from closed on high speed is wide open, although I do sometimes add 1 click if the trail has lots of drops or steps. And there’s been discussion in this thread and others about how wide open and the 1st click of hsc only has a small difference. Do you think that less lsc would be beneficial in the situation I’ve described above? These holes were about 10-12” deep and I was hitting them at about 40+km/h on Aline and dirt merchant.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

jlbanta said:


> Does the shim mod change the whole damping force curve? Or does it have a greater effect on LSC than HSC?


It affects the HSC because you are changing the HSC stack. The LSC is a different circuit.


----------



## pedronicman (Jun 9, 2020)

I weigh 180 lb and run the rebound , HSC and LSC all the way open , closing the LSC makes fork a little harsh for me so I’ll leave everything open and get the feel dialled in with the pressures which I have played around with a fair bit just make sure you set the pressures correctly with a fork unweighted it makes a big difference to getting it right or wrong


----------



## Fleijah (Jun 18, 2019)

Alright got it. Thanks for the advise on the oil for the lowers


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

How do I get the bottom out bumpers set properly? Do they have to be in a specific orientation, or just down at the bottom will suffice? I dislocated them when removing the lowers, caught on the compression rods.


----------



## __U3__ (Oct 4, 2015)

Has anyone tried a firmer HSC setup? I was to soft at first, but at 95kg ready to ride I have the feeling that the stock shims are a little to soft. Tomorrow I'll try 20-19-17.5-12 to see how that goes. With clicks 1-3 from closed you'll get a lot of damping force from the spring, I'd like to change that more to the shims. 
I even think a softer spring would mellow that curve. I think someone already tried softer springs?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

__U3__ said:


> Has anyone tried a firmer HSC setup? I was to soft at first, but at 95kg ready to ride I have the feeling that the stock shims are a little to soft. Tomorrow I'll try 20-19-17.5-12 to see how that goes. With clicks 1-3 from closed you'll get a lot of damping force from the spring, I'd like to change that more to the shims.
> 
> I even think a softer spring would mellow that curve. I think someone already tried softer springs?



Mike156 has been tweaking with It there is some usefull info,pictures and one graph in Page 119-121 on the Manitou Mezzer thread.
I couldn't find anyone that would sell a small amount of those springs.

Here is a quite from that thread:





QUOTE="mike156, post: 15089779, member: 825474"]

An estimate of the HSC shim stack preload and some different springs from rotorclip. The MWL all have roughly the same rate in a given diameter. The last letter is the height, so the longer springs add preload. MWM is a stiffer spring (the stock spring is roughly MWM-14 B, (shorter and stiffer). I think the MWL-14 C is the most intersting as it has VERY LITTLE preload in actual use and in the stiffest position is about 1 click out from fully hard compared to stock.



FWIW, they do not stock the flat (shim) faced versions of these springs. However, they sent me some samples of the springs without flat faces and they look like they will work fine. It might be possible to get the flat face version as a bulk order though. The part number changes a bit depending on the material selected.

MWL-14SQ CF - stainless, flat faced

MWL-14ST CF - steel, flat faced

[/QUOTE]


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

__U3__ said:


> Has anyone tried a firmer HSC setup? I was to soft at first, but at 95kg ready to ride I have the feeling that the stock shims are a little to soft. Tomorrow I'll try 20-19-17.5-12 to see how that goes. With clicks 1-3 from closed you'll get a lot of damping force from the spring, I'd like to change that more to the shims.
> I even think a softer spring would mellow that curve. I think someone already tried softer springs?


I went slightly firmer on the hsc stack to run without preload. Much smoother, yet still supportive versus lighter stack preloaded ime


----------



## __U3__ (Oct 4, 2015)

nmxtrdr said:


> I went slightly firmer on the hsc stack to run without preload. Much smoother, yet still supportive versus lighter stack preloaded ime


Exactly what I try to achieve. Which shim combination for which weight did you use?


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

nmxtrdr said:


> I went slightly firmer on the hsc stack to run without preload. Much smoother, yet still supportive versus lighter stack preloaded ime


Ooo good to hear it worked out well. I'm also wanting to do the same. Would be great to know what shim you added. 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

darius72 said:


> I will repeat testing with the fork disassembled; anybody has tried a lighter damper oil? Any feedback on this?


I put 2.5 redline in my cartridge, it did help noticeably for me as a lighter rider that likes a plush fork.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

__U3__ said:


> Exactly what I try to achieve. Which shim combination for which weight did you use?


20-19-18

I weigh 150lbs


----------



## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

After significant change in altitude, I opened bleed ports on the trail and boogered one of them when replacing on my fork. Be careful as it was fairly easy to do. 

Anyone know where I can source a new pair of lowers for 29 Mezzer Pro with 44mm offset? Hayes directed me to have local shop order and they can’t get until November.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

attaboy said:


> After significant change in altitude, I opened bleed ports on the trail and boogered one of them when replacing on my fork. Be careful as it was fairly easy to do.
> 
> Anyone know where I can source a new pair of lowers for 29 Mezzer Pro with 44mm offset? Hayes directed me to have local shop order and they can’t get until November.


Can you chase the thread or retap it?


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

JK-47 said:


> Can you chase the thread or retap it?


Worst case fill it with JB Weld. Or tap it for push buttons like fox.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

nmxtrdr said:


> 20-19-18
> 
> I weigh 150lbs


What about adding another shim?


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Mikel Knight said:


> What about adding another shim?


Pretty content with the stack, supportive yet blows off for big hits, best configuration I’ve tried out of 8 or so. If shim changes could be made without a damper purge and bleed I’d probably experiment some more.


----------



## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

Can someone give me a quick lesson on how elevation gain/loss affects my forks performance?
I live, and setup my fork at 7000'. Riding between 10,000' and 11'000' last weekend I felt that I wasn't getting the travel that I wanted on some bigger hits. Is this my imagination or, possibly elevation related?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

rtsideup said:


> Can someone give me a quick lesson on how elevation gain/loss affects my forks performance?
> I live, and setup my fork at 7000'. Riding between 10,000' and 11'000' last weekend I felt that I wasn't getting the travel that I wanted on some bigger hits. Is this my imagination or, possibly elevation related?


Venting the lowers will help.


----------



## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Venting the lowers will help.


So, loosening/removing the TSR screws at my 10'000' TH will vent the lowers and help with small bump compliance?
If so, do I need to reset pressures when going back down and riding in the 5000'/7000" zones?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

rtsideup said:


> So, loosening/removing the TSR screws at my 10'000' TH will vent the lowers and help with small bump compliance?
> If so, do I need to reset pressures when going back down and riding in the 5000'/7000" zones?


Air will slowly equalise while riding, the vent screws just make it happen faster. Opening at 10k will help, you may not feel the need to open them and let air back in at 5k.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

There shouldn't be any need to vent the lowers at altitude, as the pressure inside the fork is regarded absolute. This is because the fork is solid and not made of rubber or any expanding material. Yes, it will pfft because the relative pressure is different, but it isn't more to it. The bigger difference would be the temperature difference if big enough. I commute with air pressure sensors, and there is a difference in the morning and afternoon of about 2-5 psi on around 70 psi, because of the temperature difference.

So what do you is let some air out and lower the pressure the "air chamber" in the lowers.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

nmxtrdr said:


> Pretty content with the stack, supportive yet blows off for big hits, best configuration I’ve tried out of 8 or so. If shim changes could be made without a damper purge and bleed I’d probably experiment some more.


I was thinking on adding another 14mm to the stock setup because I can't find any 19mm shim.

By the way,here is the Husqvarna part number for a 8x18x0'1 shim: 48600068


----------



## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

Thanks for tips. In normal circumstances I think they would work. But, the way I fouled it around the collar it doesn’t allow the small o ring to seal. Plugging it with wax or jb weld might do until I can replace. Still haven’t found better source.
















Aluminum is very thin around the collar


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

attaboy said:


> Thanks for tips. In normal circumstances I think they would work. But, the way I fouled it around the collar it doesn’t allow the small o ring to seal. Plugging it with wax or jb weld might do until I can replace. Still haven’t found better source.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just drill it larger and tap for buttons, or just plug it with a short bolt with thread locker to seal the threads 🤷 trust me, it will work. JB weld the hole also is a foolproof idea, just put a piece of tape on the inside and fill the hole, I did it on my Mattoc, the wall at the bottom of the leg was much thinner than it is here around the arch supports. Don't worry about the neck, I don't think it's necessary in the first place.
If you still insist on swapping the lowers, will you be selling yours?


----------



## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

piciu256 said:


> Just drill it larger and tap for buttons, or just plug it with a short bolt with thread locker to seal the threads  trust me, it will work. JB weld the hole also is a foolproof idea, just put a piece of tape on the inside and fill the hole, I did it on my Mattoc, the wall at the bottom of the leg was much thinner than it is here around the arch supports. Don't worry about the neck, I don't think it's necessary in the first place.
> If you still insist on swapping the lowers, will you be selling yours?


Appreciate the thoughts! Love to try to tap buttons idea, and the jb weld if that doesn’t work. And thanks for elaborating how to. Do you happen to have source for those buttons? I think I recall seeing them in one of the 2 Mezzer threads somewhere. Will search.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

attaboy said:


> Appreciate the thoughts! Love to try to tap buttons idea, and the jb weld if that doesn’t work. And thanks for elaborating how to. Do you happen to have source for those buttons? I think I recall seeing them in one of the 2 Mezzer threads somewhere. Will search.




Got mine on AliExpress for 3$.
They got a m5x0'8 threads,I think I saw some with m6 threads too.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Mikel Knight said:


> I was thinking on adding another 14mm to the stock setup because I can't find any 19mm shim.
> 
> By the way,here is the Husqvarna part number for a 8x18x0'1 shim: 48600068








Shims Suspension Direct


Suspension Direct in a vendor and manufacturer of suspension parts for Motocross and UTV Applications, selling brands such as WP, Showa, KYB, Walker Evans, and Fox




www.suspensiondirect.com





Ordered mine here


----------



## tomstir (Mar 9, 2020)

Bleed port
I still haven't installed my forks....they were laying on the bench and I removed one plug to see how tight it was and oil came out.....it was pressurized?? not a lot and I quickly replaced the plug. Is this normal? Brand new/unused They were laying with the ports facing up.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

tomstir said:


> Bleed port
> I still haven't installed my forks....they were laying on the bench and I removed one plug to see how tight it was and oil came out.....it was pressurized?? not a lot and I quickly replaced the plug. Is this normal? Brand new/unused They were laying with the ports facing up.


Take both out at and let the pressure equalise then reinstall them. Not a big deal having a bit of pressure in there


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Just type fork pressure release buttons in google.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

I got some Motion Pro Micro Bleeders for KYB that need some work to fit. They are the silver type M5x0.8 (P/N 11-0095). The thread is too deep. Guess some sanding paper and the valve in a drill, and I can get some material off.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

hssp said:


> I got some Motion Pro Micro Bleeders for KYB that need some work to fit. They are the silver type M5x0.8 (P/N 11-0095). The thread is too deep. Guess some sanding paper and the valve in a drill, and I can get some material off.


Same problem with the AliExpress bleeders.
I would not recommend to file them down,did that on mine and they don't seal 100% after that.
I would use some spacers instead.
Anyway,they are more for the bling than functional.
Never had pressure in the lowers on my Mezzer,unlike on some older rockshox.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Yeah. I agree on the blinginess. I think it is the Motion Pros that are used by Rulezman on his RRT mods.


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

Quick question about the oil. 
The Motorex Power Synt 4T 5w40 is the same as Supergliss 68k or 100k?

TIA


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

It is not, it was discussed before. Powersynt is more versatile, while supergliss in theory better at a small temp window.


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

Thanks. I tried to find the post where it was discussed. I thought that Motorex and Supergliss were the same oils just rebranded, hence my questions.

Edit: it looks like Supergliss is just another Motorex product…









SUPERGLISS 68 K - INDUSTRIAL LINE


The lubricating oils SUPERGLISS K contain surface-active substances, which improve the coefficient of friction and even prevent stick-slip at slow feed rate and heavy loads. MOTOREX SUPERGLISS K are lubricating oils, which form a pressure resistant, adhesive lubricating film, which is even...




motorex.com


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

slashIE said:


> Thanks. I tried to find the post where it was discussed. I thought that Motorex and Supergliss were the same oils just rebranded, hence my questions.
> 
> Edit: it looks like Supergliss is just another Motorex product…


It's the Manitou fork damper oil that's a rebranded Motorex oil.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

JK-47 said:


> It's the Manitou fork damper oil that's a rebranded Motorex oil.


Nope! Original is blue, motorex is red.


----------



## tomstir (Mar 9, 2020)

OzIbis said:


> Take both out at and let the pressure equalise then reinstall them. Not a big deal having a bit of pressure in there


Why was pure oil coming out? Is it that full? I figured maybe a bit mixed with air...this was like getting pumped out......I would expect it if they were upside down with air behind it. Going to hopefully tear it down for "is there lube" inspection .....I hopefully will be ready for some "OZIbis tune" at the end of this week!!!!


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

hssp said:


> Nope! Original is blue, motorex is red.


Or is it the semibath that's the Motorex?





Manitou Oils - Fork Oil Selection Charts - Suspension Oils - Technical | Shockcraft







www.shockcraft.co.nz


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

tomstir said:


> Why was pure oil coming out? Is it that full? I figured maybe a bit mixed with air...this was like getting pumped out......I would expect it if they were upside down with air behind it. Going to hopefully tear it down for "is there lube" inspection .....I hopefully will be ready for some "OZIbis tune" at the end of this week!!!!


Probably just a bit sitting up there in the port areas. Theres not a lot of clearance up in that area and it’s probably just hanging there from when the fork has been moved around. It will only take 5 minutes to drop the lowers and check the oil levels in the lowers anyway. Just empty out what’s in there and put new oil in then you’ll know where you are at. It’ll be good practice for future services and it will ease you mind now. There’s no way the lowers are full.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

JK-47 said:


> Or is it the semibath that's the Motorex?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes.


----------



## sselhtrim (Nov 6, 2021)

Just received a mezzer expert, found the iva knob stiff and not able to turn even after following the manual to release the air first.

Is that normal?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sselhtrim said:


> Just received a mezzer expert, found the iva knob stiff and not able to turn even after following the manual to release the air first.
> 
> Is that normal?


That's not a knob, it's a cap. You need to unscrew it (24mm socket) to get to the IVA spacers.


----------



## sselhtrim (Nov 6, 2021)

Dougal said:


> That's not a knob, it's a cap. You need to unscrew it (24mm socket) to get to the IVA spacers.


Thanks for the reply, now I know to set the iva up for 150mm by reducing the air volume. The manual was a little brief..


----------



## decolocsta (Jul 16, 2007)

Hey folks.
My new mezzer pro is leaking air from the IRT to the positive Airchamber.
I want to replace the 2 Orings on the IRT Piston.
Can you help out with the Seal Dimensions?

thx


----------



## eeyore2012 (Feb 5, 2009)

decolocsta said:


> Hey folks.
> My new mezzer pro is leaking air from the IRT to the positive Airchamber.
> I want to replace the 2 Orings on the IRT Piston.
> Can you help out with the Seal Dimensions?
> ...



I had the same exact problem with mine, and while I thought I followed the instructions on page one of this thread, I reckon I didnt use enough grease. I didnt even drop the lowers, i just removed all the air. popped out the IRT and really really really greased the heck out of it and that solved that problem. worth a shot before you throw new seals at it.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

decolocsta said:


> Hey folks.
> My new mezzer pro is leaking air from the IRT to the positive Airchamber.
> I want to replace the 2 Orings on the IRT Piston.
> Can you help out with the Seal Dimensions?
> ...





eeyore2012 said:


> I had the same exact problem with mine, and while I thought I followed the instructions on page one of this thread, I reckon I didnt use enough grease. I didnt even drop the lowers, i just removed all the air. popped out the IRT and really really really greased the heck out of it and that solved that problem. worth a shot before you throw new seals at it.


I was going to say a similar thing the other thing you can do but it’s a short term fix is to put a couple of ml of whatever oil you use as lower bath oil into the top of the IRT. A thicker oil will be a little better. I think it’s usually the inner o-ring that wears a little then starts to leak a little. 
Dougal will know the size and can supply too. I bought a whole o-ring kit from him and replaced all the o-rings in my fork after the same thing started happening.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

decolocsta said:


> Hey folks.
> My new mezzer pro is leaking air from the IRT to the positive Airchamber.
> I want to replace the 2 Orings on the IRT Piston.
> Can you help out with the Seal Dimensions?
> ...


Step 1 is grease them. They can be chattering because they're dry and bleeding air as they chatter.
But if they're worn it's a -110 and -122 o-ring.


----------



## tomstir (Mar 9, 2020)

Pulled and inspected everything.....all looked good. My buddy had a two stage non digital pump he let me borrow. I screwed the pump on and when I started to screw the second knob it released all the air from the fork.....then wouldn't pump air in. Not sure what I am doing wrong....maybe its broken. Any one have a link to a digital two stage? I used my old single stage pump to then fill it up.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

tomstir said:


> Pulled and inspected everything.....all looked good. My buddy had a two stage non digital pump he let me borrow. I screwed the pump on and when I started to screw the second knob it released all the air from the fork.....then wouldn't pump air in. Not sure what I am doing wrong....maybe its broken. Any one have a link to a digital two stage? I used my old single stage pump to then fill it up.


Sounds like the seal between the two stages is stuffed on your mates pump. The pump I’ve been using for a couple of years now without any issues other than replacing the battery once is a Giant branded one. It’s obviously digital and has a dual stage head. Not that expensive either.


----------



## decolocsta (Jul 16, 2007)

I stuffed the IRT Full of grease and it solved the Problem. Thank you guys.


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

decolocsta said:


> I stuffed the IRT Full of grease and it solved the Problem. Thank you guys.


Good to know!
When this happened to me, I've just unscrewed the IRT from my other mezzer and went for a ride 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

I am in finale ligure, a mecca for enduro riding, I have completed more tests on mezzer and still unhappy. I tryed the "magic" pressures combo 43/58. no good. the best so far is 25, max 30 psi main 40/50 irt. I even tryed to bleed off to almost zero the main for a short test, and the fork still isn't plush; this suggest that the problem is on the damper or stiction in the air pistons or both.I tried other bikes, I have to say fox forks are fantastic. Then I went to a repair shop with big expertise on forks and shocks (they support some riders in world cup) and they told me that mainly they work with fox and ohlins that are good, rockshox is so-so and manitou and dvo are cheap;according to them. They told me that maybe it's possible to make.my mezzer good, but it will take many work hours in trials and errors; they recommend me to buy a fox instead. Manitou is plagued with bad tolerances that make them harsh. Then I remembered that to insert the wheel I have to open up the lowers, still I have to grind away the paint as recommended here in first page...this is an example of cheap quality and bad tolerances.
Anyway...i will make last effort: grind away the paint in the lowers, open the fork for a full service, change the hydraulic oil to 2.5 wt, lube up and grease everything. if still not good sell it and buy a fox.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

darius72 said:


> I am in finale ligure, a mecca for enduro riding, I have completed more tests on mezzer and still unhappy. I tryed the "magic" pressures combo 43/58. no good. the best so far is 25, max 30 psi main 40/50 irt. I even tryed to bleed off to almost zero the main for a short test, and the fork still isn't plush; this suggest that the problem is on the damper or stiction in the air pistons or both.I tried other bikes, I have to say fox forks are fantastic. Then I went to a repair shop with big expertise on forks and shocks (they support some riders in world cup) and they told me that mainly they work with fox and ohlins that are good, rockshox is so-so and manitou and dvo are cheap;according to them. They told me that maybe it's possible to make.my mezzer good, but it will take many work hours in trials and errors; they recommend me to buy a fox instead. Manitou is plagued with bad tolerances that make them harsh. Then I remembered that to insert the wheel I have to open up the lowers, still I have to grind away the paint as recommended here in first page...this is an example of cheap quality and bad tolerances.
> Anyway...i will make last effort: grind away the paint in the lowers, open the fork for a full service, change the hydraulic oil to 2.5 wt, lube up and grease everything. if still not good sell it and buy a fox.


This is not how the Mezzer normally is and the pressures you are trying to run are so low that the fork wouldn’t even work properly if there wasn’t some sort of issue with it. In most cases the Mezzer is superior to Fox forks in feel and handling. You have something very wrong with yours that needs to be worked out. What you are describing relates to your fork not all Mezzer’s I can assure you of that. You need to contact Hayes and I’m sure they will help you work it out in one way or another but the performance you are getting is far from normal and not what 99.9% of us have experienced.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

darius72 said:


> I am in finale ligure, a mecca for enduro riding, I have completed more tests on mezzer and still unhappy. I tryed the "magic" pressures combo 43/58. no good. the best so far is 25, max 30 psi main 40/50 irt. I even tryed to bleed off to almost zero the main for a short test, and the fork still isn't plush; this suggest that the problem is on the damper or stiction in the air pistons or both.I tried other bikes, I have to say fox forks are fantastic. Then I went to a repair shop with big expertise on forks and shocks (they support some riders in world cup) and they told me that mainly they work with fox and ohlins that are good, rockshox is so-so and manitou and dvo are cheap;according to them. They told me that maybe it's possible to make.my mezzer good, but it will take many work hours in trials and errors; they recommend me to buy a fox instead. Manitou is plagued with bad tolerances that make them harsh. Then I remembered that to insert the wheel I have to open up the lowers, still I have to grind away the paint as recommended here in first page...this is an example of cheap quality and bad tolerances.
> Anyway...i will make last effort: grind away the paint in the lowers, open the fork for a full service, change the hydraulic oil to 2.5 wt, lube up and grease everything. if still not good sell it and buy a fox.


Maybe it’s worth getting in touch with rulezman since he’s close to you and specializes in Manitou products? I imagine he can look things over and address any warranty issues if needed, as well as help with set up and tuning.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

darius72 said:


> I am in finale ligure, a mecca for enduro riding, I have completed more tests on mezzer and still unhappy. I tryed the "magic" pressures combo 43/58. no good. the best so far is 25, max 30 psi main 40/50 irt. I even tryed to bleed off to almost zero the main for a short test, and the fork still isn't plush; this suggest that the problem is on the damper or stiction in the air pistons or both.I tried other bikes, I have to say fox forks are fantastic. Then I went to a repair shop with big expertise on forks and shocks (they support some riders in world cup) and they told me that mainly they work with fox and ohlins that are good, rockshox is so-so and manitou and dvo are cheap;according to them. They told me that maybe it's possible to make.my mezzer good, but it will take many work hours in trials and errors; they recommend me to buy a fox instead. Manitou is plagued with bad tolerances that make them harsh. Then I remembered that to insert the wheel I have to open up the lowers, still I have to grind away the paint as recommended here in first page...this is an example of cheap quality and bad tolerances.
> Anyway...i will make last effort: grind away the paint in the lowers, open the fork for a full service, change the hydraulic oil to 2.5 wt, lube up and grease everything. if still not good sell it and buy a fox.


Your earlier posts show 83kg. Somewhere around 40-60psi and 40-80psi is where you need to be if the fork is functioning corretly. Going really soft will make anything bad.

Is the fork sliding smoothly?

That shop doesn't know what they're talking about.


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

Thank you all for the replies. Actually the fork isn't very smooth even with zero pressure or the pump attached. I will do a full rebuild, including filing the paint in the hub area. I will keep you posted.


----------



## decolocsta (Jul 16, 2007)

Im around 80 Kilo
Running 65/90 psi (150mm) and my fork is buttery smooth.

after IRT regrease even more than before.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

The IRT grease thing; how do I know that I have sufficient grease? Won't it just slide off anyway? Just had a liberal amount of grease, and hope it will stick.


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

I put a small amount around the ring, above and below. I don’t think there is much point to adding an excessive amount as it will just get displaced by the seal. I relube all seals when I do a lowers service.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Ripbro said:


> I put a small amount around the ring, above and below. I don’t think there is much point to adding an excessive amount as it will just get displaced by the seal. I relube all seals when I do a lowers service.


Thing is I did did what I call sufficient amounts of grease the last time, a couple of weeks ago, and it still creeped into the main chamber...


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

darius72 said:


> Thank you all for the replies. Actually the fork isn't very smooth even with zero pressure or the pump attached. I will do a full rebuild, including filing the paint in the hub area. I will keep you posted.


Stop filing paint. It isn't going to help you.
Pull the lower legs off and see how they slide on each leg individually. If they're tight then you need to find something to burnish the bushigs with. It's gotta be round, smooth and between 37.05 and 37.1mm diameter.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

I measured the distance between my dropouts to be 109mm,so I sanded away a bit using the tool from CCS86. Worked well!


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The lowers usually spring inwards a bit when unsupported. But that doesn't matter because they were fixtured at 110mm when they were bored for bushings.

I think that this was done before coating, so any buildup on the axle flange puts them slightly out of position. Any extra friction this adds is minor. It's like 5%. So removing that paint won't "fix" anything. I also don't see how you could possibly "file" it off. There is definitely potential to do more harm than good. Using a tool like I designed is probably the safest method. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

darius72 said:


> Thank you all for the replies. Actually the fork isn't very smooth even with zero pressure or the pump attached. I will do a full rebuild, including filing the paint in the hub area. I will keep you posted.


Mine started acting like this and I had too much air trapped in the lowers.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Is this a Euro spec fork? Was interested in this and emailed seller asking why theirs is 160 to 180 and not the 140-180: Mezzer Pro 29" 160-180 Tapered Boost


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

westin said:


> Is this a Euro spec fork? Was interested in this and emailed seller asking why theirs is 160 to 180 and not the 140-180: Mezzer Pro 29" 160-180 Tapered Boost


I bought this fork. Can be set 140-180 there is enough spacers supplied.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

westin said:


> Is this a Euro spec fork? Was interested in this and emailed seller asking why theirs is 160 to 180 and not the 140-180: Mezzer Pro 29" 160-180 Tapered Boost


They ship either as 160 or 180mm and have 40mm of spacers included in the box.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Is there anything in particular that needs to be done before opening the bleed screws or is it cool to just unscrew them with the fork at normal operating air pressures? Just checking in case I’m missing something super obvious…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

irck said:


> Is there anything in particular that needs to be done before opening the bleed screws or is it cool to just unscrew them with the fork at normal operating air pressures? Just checking in case I’m missing something super obvious…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just be careful when threading the bolts back in.
They are easy to cross thread.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

How much stanchion should show above the travel ring when the fork has bottomed out? I pushed down with a pump attached and the fork still had 13 or 14mm left on the outside edge of the stanchion.

I’m running mine at 140mm so I’m just curious if this is actually full travel. The travel ring measures 135m from the top of the fork seals but 140mm from the top of the lowers themselves. Do I still have 5mm left in the tank?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## decolocsta (Jul 16, 2007)

irck said:


> How much stanchion should show above the travel ring when the fork has bottomed out? I pushed down with a pump attached and the fork still had 13 or 14mm left on the outside edge of the stanchion.
> 
> I’m running mine at 140mm so I’m just curious if this is actually full travel. The travel ring measures 135m from the top of the fork seals but 140mm from the top of the lowers themselves. Do I still have 5mm left in the tank?
> 
> ...


140mm should be at 147mm stanchion lenght


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

decolocsta said:


> 140mm should be at 147mm stanchion lenght


Yep. There’s about 147mm from the top of the fork seals to the outer edge of the crown. 

What I’m trying to figure out is how much stanchion should remain above the travel ring when full travel is achieved. I’m also interested if full travel can be achieved by pressing down on the fork with a shock pump attached. 

I’ll can always let the air out of the fork to see later on, but I thought somebody might know offhand. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

You don't have to let the air out. Connecting a pump will let you push it all the way to the bottom. But, the rubber bottom out bumpers will keep you off the true bottom when pushing by hand. That's where the extra travel is hiding.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> You don't have to let the air out. Connecting a pump will let you push it all the way to the bottom. But, the rubber bottom out bumpers will keep you off the true bottom when pushing by hand. That's where the extra travel is hiding.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


That’s the info I was chasing  Thanks mate!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bike_In_AZ (Jun 4, 2020)

Mikel Knight said:


> Same problem with the AliExpress bleeders.
> I would not recommend to file them down,did that on mine and they don't seal 100% after that.
> I would use some spacers instead.
> Anyway,they are more for the bling than functional.
> Never had pressure in the lowers on my Mezzer,unlike on some older rockshox.


are the m5x.8 the next size up? Do you know of a spacer/bolt replacement that will seal without modification? 

My threads are only partially stripped out, they thread in, but i can see that oil is leaking out slightly. Is there a better solution?


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Bike_In_AZ said:


> are the m5x.8 the next size up? Do you know of a spacer/bolt replacement that will seal without modification?
> 
> My threads are only partially stripped out, they thread in, but i can see that oil is leaking out slightly. Is there a better solution?


I can see how my Motion Pro Micro Bleeders fit in my semi stripped out thread


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Hi all! So my 2nd set of Mezzers, and 2nd time around doing all the internals (air piston quad ring, comp shim, bleed damper).

Now last time I did this I dont recall this, but I’ve bled the damper and there’s no air in there, but it sounds like it when cycling the damper into the last 30mm that there is.
Is this normal / something to do with the HBO?

TIA


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

DG370 said:


> Hi all! So my 2nd set of Mezzers, and 2nd time around doing all the internals (air piston quad ring, comp shim, bleed damper).
> 
> Now last time I did this I dont recall this, but I’ve bled the damper and there’s no air in there, but it sounds like it when cycling the damper into the last 30mm that there is.
> Is this normal / something to do with the HBO?
> ...


That's the HBO engaging.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Excellent thanks for confirming!
Don’t remember that from last time at all!


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Forks seals - Forgot to measure while apart - does anyone know the dimensions (other than 37 obv!)

Or even better what specific SKF Green seals fit?


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

I wrote these down a while back, someone will need to verify to be sure.

SKF green seals MTB37MU


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Hah Google sent me back to this thread! Post 1305!
RipBro you are correct!


----------



## Ford29 (Jun 11, 2019)

Delete. Figured out what I needed


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Well tell the rest of us in case anyone else makes the same mistake.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

I've had my Mezzer pro for about 10 weeks now and after becoming better acquainted with it during the first month I've been focusing on a Local Enduro Race.
I've been puzzling with tires but mostly on the track as its a "proper" route and one you would injure yourself on if ridden blind(the A lines) Since riding harder/faster gaining confidence I have upped my IRT pressure by 6PSI and added 1PSI to the main. The 6 in the IRT made the fork ride higher, on the steep stuff and in big holes between rocks. It was another case where firmer can end up feeling better as one rides the mid-stroke and not the end ramp.

My race went well yesterday and I continued to grow in confidence as the day progressed, by the last stage I was riding lines I would usually not have even noticed, and staying off the brakes much longer.

I really enjoyed and felt the extra confidence and resulting speed from my upgrades which was really satisfying.
I got the Mezzer first, then upgraded to Shimano 4 pot brakes, then got the Assegai up front. All being a knock on effect from more speed. The brakes was a surprise to me, as I was a die hard 2 pot XT user, but the milliseconds you slow down faster with more power before turns lets you get off the brakes faster, you time the turns better and the bike behaves better when you're not braking= more exit speed...and it snowballs. I ended up 6th in my Cat and 38th overall. I still think E-bikes should not be included in the overall, and results should be separate all together.

I will now be attempting a "Proper" damper overhaul as I don't have race prep to focus on. My compression is still to firm as I'm riding max 4 clicks LSC and no HSC. Rebound is close, but all the way out.

Thanks for all the help on this community, In the end this is why we do it, to improve our riding and for our enjoyment, but if the clock shows the results, even better.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

That's great to hear from a fellow rider. Once you get your settings dialed, it would be great to know your stats and settings as a reference point. 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

jacksonlui said:


> That's great to hear from a fellow rider. Once you get your settings dialed, it would be great to know your stats and settings as a reference point.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


Hi Jackson, I just updated my data. 

I didn't initially add them to the Mezzer google docs sheet as I've kind of felt my solution has been a bit of a copout, although It works quite well, and It may be an easier solution to those who may not have the confidence to take it all apart? Although, I still think the proper damper overhaul and shim mod is the solution.

As I was getting ready for the race on Sunday, a guy parked next to me had a Mezzer Pro on his Spez Enduro. Bike was tricked out, asked him about the fork and he raved about it, however giving it the quick carpark squish, I could tell immediately he had not done any of the mods. The fork had that slow overdamped stock feeling, and he was not much heavier than me(75) and way slower, so there's no way those settings are right for him, he may just not know, and or, be willing to do the full tare down. In SA where I live, most bikeshops will not even be willing to do a shim change. However they may be willing to do an oil swap, so although I may get hell for it, there may be a case where the oil solution is valid.

FYI - I just uploaded my DATA on the sheet, and cleaned it up a bit, there were a couple of unnecessary sheets with no data, and copies of the calc sheet. I deleted those so it would be like It was when I first found it. I hope someone wasn't working on it, but it was getting messy.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Ripbro said:


> I wrote these down a while back, someone will need to verify to be sure.
> 
> SKF green seals MTB37MU



Got a set of those few days ago.
I'm wondering If they are the same as the stock seals.


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

Mikel Knight said:


> Got a set of those few days ago.
> I'm wondering If they are the same as the stock seals.
> View attachment 2002250
> View attachment 2002249


Where did you get it in Europe ?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

slashIE said:


> Where did you get it in Europe ?


Bought them at this spanish shop,I got the only or last set.



https://mountainbikeshop.es/retenes-skf-horquillas-manitou-de-37mm



You can find them in the Bikeshop page too,they will be avaiable soon.

I was looking for the stock seals few weeks ago and they were very hard to find.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

I got my seals from Gamux.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

hssp said:


> I got my seals from Gamux.


Did you find any difference with the stock seals besides the colour?


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Mikel Knight said:


> Did you find any difference with the stock seals besides the colour?


Mine are stock. SKF is OEM to several manufacturers, and their own branded ones are the same, besides color. The foam rings would be different, though.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

hssp said:


> Mine are stock. SKF is OEM to several manufacturers, and their own branded ones are the same, besides color. The foam rings would be different, though.


 I know that the oem seals are skf and "self lubricating" like the Green ones,but on the other hand I would like to think that they didn't use their best compound on an OEM product.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mikel Knight said:


> I know that the oem seals are skf and "self lubricating" like the Green ones,but on the other hand I would like to think that they didn't use their best compound on an OEM product.


Only SKF will know the compound differences.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Dougal said:


> Only SKF will know the compound differences.


I should get my burnishing tool next week and will try to do a comparison between both seals.


----------



## Openbath (3 mo ago)

Im going to buy a Mezzer for my trusted Bird AM9, but I can’t decide between Expert and Pro. My old fork is an old non boost Pike and I recently tried a Lyrik Ultimate 2022 on the bike and realised I needed to upgrade from the Pike. Anything will be an upgrade, but is the pro worth the extra 250€? Heard they are upgradable, but I doubt I will ever do that and I haven’t seen the upgrade kit for sale anywhere.


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

I would go with pro. It is only expensive when you buy it. After that you are happy that you have all the the features. There’s a guy on this thread who wants to sell new Mezzer. I have his DM. He offered me good price, but I already have one.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

My HSC compression dial is rattling (the black one). The bolt is tight. How do I fix it? Do I need a part (ball bearing or something?)

Edit: the answer is pull off the lsc knob and snug the hsc 11mm nut.


----------



## Bearded4Glory (Aug 14, 2021)

I just picked up a used Mezzer Pro off ebay for a good deal. The previous owner said he rode it for a year and replaced it with a different fork. I did a rough setup and rolled around the yard and it feels nice (as nice as a fork feels on flat ground). I'm trying to figure out what service I should do on it. I just sent the seller a message to ask approximately how many hours are on it but haven't heard back yet.

The fork is missing the travel oring so I need to drop the lowers to put one on. I figure I might as well check and lube the air side and I ordered the 214 xring too. Should I also change the fork seals and do a damper service while I am in there? All the stuff is adding up so I don't want to do anything that is unnecessary since I need all the oils and special tools that I don't have yet.

Thanks, I am excited to try the fork out once my shoulder heals up from my labrum repair. Trying to stay busy in the meantime.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I would just do a lowers service while you are there. It's super easy to drop it again if seals etc are a problem. My travel oring rotted off in under a year also. Hopefully Hayes used better rubber for the fork seals. 

That being said I still really like the fork. My settings are something like I weigh 200 pounds. 48 psi main 100 Irt. 4 out on lsc and 2 clicks of out of hsc. Unsure where my rebound is sitting


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

cassieno said:


> I would just do a lowers service while you are there. It's super easy to drop it again if seals etc are a problem. My travel oring rotted off in under a year also. Hopefully Hayes used better rubber for the fork seals.
> 
> That being said I still really like the fork. My settings are something like I weigh 200 pounds. 48 psi main 100 Irt. 4 out on lsc and 2 clicks of out of hsc. Unsure where my rebound is sitting


Buy a Silicon o-ring for the SAG indicator.
The stock material is nbr,very good inside the fork,but little resistance to UV which is what damages the stock one.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

I found a video comparing friction between different seal brands.
Stock Fox seals(made by skf) get the same results as the skf Green.
Racing Bros modi have about 50% less friction.
The orange race version is well known for being crap,they just don't act as a seal.

I had the Racing Bros modi on my previous Fox 36 and I could notice the difference between the stock ones clearly.

That being said,even after servicing them every 2 months the black anodizing from the stanctions started to wear out after about 18 months.
It could be the bushings too,It seemed like they got tighter and tighter with time.


----------



## Bearded4Glory (Aug 14, 2021)

cassieno said:


> I would just do a lowers service while you are there. It's super easy to drop it again if seals etc are a problem. My travel oring rotted off in under a year also. Hopefully Hayes used better rubber for the fork seals.
> 
> That being said I still really like the fork. My settings are something like I weigh 200 pounds. 48 psi main 100 Irt. 4 out on lsc and 2 clicks of out of hsc. Unsure where my rebound is sitting


Thanks, that sounds like a plan. Interesting, seems like you are lower than the recommendation on the main chamber and higher on the IRT. I am a similar weight and I know I am going to have to play around with it once I am finally back on the bike.



Mikel Knight said:


> Buy a Silicon o-ring for the SAG indicator.
> The stock material is nbr,very good inside the fork,but little resistance to UV which is what damages the stock one.


Any idea of the right size? Something like these?









Amazon.com: uxcell Silicone O-Ring, 40mm Outside Diameter, 35.2mm Inner Diameter, 2.4mm Width, VMQ Seal Rings Sealing Gasket Red, 10PCS : Industrial & Scientific


Buy uxcell Silicone O-Ring, 40mm Outside Diameter, 35.2mm Inner Diameter, 2.4mm Width, VMQ Seal Rings Sealing Gasket Red, 10PCS: O-Rings - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Yep, I could never get it set up right based on Hayes recommendations or the Excel.

I extrapolated from a comment Dougal made on the Pinkbike review of the Mezzer and that made it feel better. 

And then had a suspension expert set it up for me and ended up here. Very happy with it right now.


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

Update on my story, if you haven't read my previos post: I used very low pressure even 30 psi main or less and the fork wasn't plush.
I've just completed a full rebuild and I have replaced the damper oil with putoline hpx r 2.5wt (viscosity at 40 C is only 6.6, while stock maxima 5wt is 16).
When I had the fork off the bike and with air pressures at zero it doesn't feel that it has too much stiction, well not perfect but acceptable; I opened the air chambers (main and IRT), greased and added few drops of oil.
Damper side: having it disassembled it feels (to me) overdamped, very viscous. After I've replaced the oil (this is not a quick job and it's very messy) it felt much better.
Bad of mezzer: my DT swiss hub with spacer is 110.00 mm on digital caliper, the fork is less than 109 mm (depends where you measure it's uneven); this is not only paint, the casting is out of spec, I could understand some tenths, but out for more than 1 mm...; I've tested the fork off the bike with and without the wheel, and the effect of splay is noticeable; in the future I want to grind down the spacer of the hub, it's easier than to work on the fork.
After rebuilding I tried the fork with 35 main 50 irt and it felt much better than before; than I even went up to 40/55 and it's ok, not great but ok. Before the damper oil swap I used pressures down to 30 and I was very disappointed, I wanted to swap the fork with an air tube and forget it forever. I am wondering now if the shim stack mod can improve it even more.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The lowers aren't "out of spec". They just spring inwards slightly without an axle there to support them. When they were machined for the bushings they were fixtured at the correct axle spacing. 

Do not grind down a boost hub. That is a really bad idea.

I can sell you a tool to help you deck the axle flange on the fork lowers, removing the paint and making sure they are flat and parallel. That is the most attention this area needs. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

I’m struggling with harshness with a Pro set at 140. Riding weight is 75 - 76 kg. It is supportive and deals well with big hits but small bump compliance isn’t great and repeated hits in fast chunky terrain really beats up my hands.

I initially used the spreadsheet calculator but I’ve diverged considerably trying to get it to feel less harsh. Support and bottoming out isn’t an issue so I’ve been running it more and more open but it’s not helping much. I have been reducing air pressure in the main (and incrementally in the IRT) but it seems like my pressures are way off what the recommended is so I’m wondering if I’m missing something obvious. 

My current setup is:

Main - 47 psi
IRT - 80 psi
LSC - Fully open
HSC - Fully open
Rebound - 2 clicks from fully open

Help me Mezzer gurus!


(Edited because I forgot to note how much I weigh.)


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

If it is struggling on repeated hits, try opening the LSR. Otherwise I think a shim retune should help on the rebound stack. Dougal said he would look into it when time allows for it.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

irck said:


> I’m struggling with harshness with a Pro set at 140. Riding weight is 75 - 76 kg. It is supportive and deals well with big hits but small bump compliance isn’t great and repeated hits in fast chunky terrain really beats up my hands.
> 
> I initially used the spreadsheet calculator but I’ve diverged considerably trying to get it to feel less harsh. Support and bottoming out isn’t an issue so I’ve been running it more and more open but it’s not helping much. I have been reducing air pressure in the main (and incrementally in the IRT) but it seems like my pressures are way off what the recommended is so I’m wondering if I’m missing something obvious.
> 
> ...


Try reducing IRT volume by means of spacers on the IRT shaft below the piston.

This helped my Mezzer substantially with repeated hits at speed.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

hssp said:


> If it is struggling on repeated hits, try opening the LSR. Otherwise I think a shim retune should help on the rebound stack. Dougal said he would look into it when time allows for it.


Ok. I’ll give that a shot, but that will mean everything is fully open. Does this mean that my pressures look reasonable?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

For small bump. I would drop your main pressure to 37psi and add more in lsc for support. Irt looks about right.

At 200lbs my pressure is about the same (I have more Irt), but I have significantly more compression damping.

It looks to me (without feeling your fork) that you are getting most of the support from the spring and not much from the damper (granted some of its different because of your weight)

Repeated hits could easily be rebound.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

nmxtrdr said:


> Try reducing IRT volume by means of spacers on the IRT shaft below the piston.
> 
> This helped my Mezzer substantially with repeated hits at speed.


I haven’t heard of that before but I’ll do some research. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I don't understand this concept of the damper providing "support". The spring provides support. The damper provides control by subtly changing the amount of time a given force will take to get to the same displacement. 

Since the forces on a fork/shock can be very short, damping can definitely reduce travel used for a given bump (by putting that force into your hands). But I wouldn't call that support. 



Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

cassieno said:


> For small bump. I would drop your main pressure to 37psi and add more in lsc for support. Irt looks about right.
> 
> At 200lbs my pressure is about the same (I have more Irt), but I have significantly more compression damping.
> 
> ...


Damn. That’s a serious drop over the spreadsheet recommendation! I’m happy to give it a spin to see if it works though. 

Is your fork also at 140? What are your compression settings? Not that they’ll necessarily be appropriate for me, but I’m interested for a reference point. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> I don't understand this concept of the damper providing "support". The spring provides support. The damper provides control by subtly changing the amount of time a given force will take to get to the same displacement.
> 
> Since the forces on a fork/shock can be very short, damping can definitely reduce travel used for a given bump (by putting that force into your hands). But I wouldn't call that support.
> 
> ...


Does it seem like my settings are way off?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Mine was at 140. And giving you my experience based on that. 

I have mine set at 170 now - different bike. 

I think on the Pinkbike article Dougal told Mike Levy to set main to 36 Irt to 56 and close lsc. 

I would start there if I were you. I tried to extrapolate those recommendations for my weight and was much happier with where it ended up for my weight (over spreadsheet and Hayes manual)


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

irck said:


> Does it seem like my settings are way off?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not to me, besides going softer on your pressures than I would.

Have you had the air-spring and IRT apart for thorough greasing?

Did you check for proper bushing fit/friction? 

Have you verified that the negative chamber is being filled fully, by leaving the pump connected fully compressing?

Depending on your model year, you might pull a shim out of the HSC stack and one out of the rebound stack. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/review-manitou-mezzer-pro-fork.html



Dougal explains it here. But, you have to search a little for his comments.

I could never get my fork feeling right following CCS86's recommendations. I went through all the above troubleshooting steps and the only thing that made the fork feel good (and now it feels great) was drop pressure increase damping.

Not sure why. I guess some are just different (even if they shouldn't be)


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

cassieno said:


> https://m.pinkbike.com/news/review-manitou-mezzer-pro-fork.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What difficulty trails are you riding? 

Would you say you are "charging" or just riding for fun?

Maximum drops you hit? 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Generally blue to black. But some double blacks tech type with the same setup. Mostly natural. With steep rocky chutes.

Rocky and extremely rooty. Typically a little slower. To wide open and fast.

Drops are under 4 feet usually. But handles more 6 to 7 feet just fine.

Trails like Sticks and Stones in Northstar and Solstice in Marin.

I did have to take my fork to a local suspension tuner because I couldn't not get it set up even close to right. And his advice and setup echoed Douglas "drop main, add lsc". He did more with Irt, and rebound and hsc. But drop main and add lsc is what put me in the track to it feeling good.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Sounds similar to trails I ride. 

There are just so many variables, from the terrain and temps, to bike geometry, rider technique and size, rider preference; the list goes on. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

If you want to understand how LSC & HSC works, I recommend to remove the fork from the bike, zero the pressure in air chambers and pressing it up&down while playing with the knobs; what I found out:
The LSC works on very slow speed, probably on pedaling effect and little more; even the effect of a small bump goes probably to HSC.
Without at least one click of HSC LSC is almost useless


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

darius72 said:


> If you want to understand how LSC & HSC works, I recommend to remove the fork from the bike, zero the pressure in air chambers and pressing it up&down while playing with the knobs; what I found out:
> The LSC works on very slow speed, probably on pedaling effect and little more; even the effect of a small bump goes probably to HSC.
> Without at least one click of HSC LSC is almost useless


I don’t really understand or necessarily agree with your last comment. LSC and HSC are different circuits. LSC can work and make a noticeable difference in the amount of support the fork feels like it has when responding to forces generated from above the pedals, that is the sprung weight of the bike and the rider, without the HSC even being activated. It depends on the size and speed of the impact. In basic terms the LSC controls forces that come from above the pedals where HSC controls forces that come below the pedals.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

LSC is the bypass around HSC.


----------



## Bearded4Glory (Aug 14, 2021)

Does anyone have a burnishing tool in the Bay Area that I could rent for a day? My bushings are a little tight.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Dougal said:


> LSC is the bypass around HSC.


So to my way of thinking and the thought process I’ve been using to make adjustments is the LSC can and does work independently of the HSC up until the point where the oil flow becomes too high/fast then the excess oil is then diverted through the HSC circuit. So no HSC needs to be dialled in for the LSC to be working it is actually working all of the time to varying degrees based on the clicker settings. So even when HSC is engaged there is still some oil going through the LSC circuit up to its maximum capacity and the rest goes through the HSC. That’s how I understand the way this damper works. Tell me I haven’t been thinking about it incorrectly all this time? Either way I’ve always managed to nail an awesome set up.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

In order for the LSC to generate meaningful force, the HSC has to be able to stay shut. As soon as it starts to open, the LSC can't add any damping. So, the less HSC you run, the less LSC you can generate and the less each click of LSC gives you. This also means that every time you add a click of HSC, you will need to adjust your LSC to preserve your setting.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

cassieno said:


> Mine was at 140. And giving you my experience based on that.
> 
> I have mine set at 170 now - different bike.
> 
> ...


Cheers. I’ll give your recommended settings a spin and see what it’s like. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> Not to me, besides going softer on your pressures than I would.
> 
> Have you had the air-spring and IRT apart for thorough greasing?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. My fork is a 2021.

I greased the air-spring when I adjusted the travel from brand new. Negative chamber has been checked with a connected pump.

I haven’t greased the IRT. Haven’t checked for bushing friction but I guess I wouldn’t be surprised if they were an issue considering the QC issue I’ve had with my steerer tube moving. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MC76000 (3 mo ago)

First time posting here, thank you all so much for the incredible amount of useful information in this thread!
I have a couple of questions about the shim stack mod from the first page. Am I right in thinking that removing or downsizing the 17.5mm shim should only change the HSC circuit?

I have a Mezzer Pro at 170mm on a Transition Sentinel, I'm 160 lbs with gear and running at 35 main, 55 IRT following Dougal's recs from the PInkbike review, I like the feel of the LSC close to closed but can only run 0-1 of HSC without the fork feeling harsh on bigger hits.

I thought I would try the shim stack mod, I ended up removing the 17.5 mm shim and not replacing it with a 12mm. This was my first time modifying a shim stack but everything seemed like it went back together OK; I took it for a ride today and am still figuring out what feels best, running the same pressures and a click or 2 more HSC but for the first time I bottomed the fork out hard in a way that I could hear on a rock roll I ride all the time.

I know I might just need more HSC or IRT pressure, but is it possible I did something wrong in reassembling and the bottom out damper isn't working as it should? The guide linked on the first page explains the shim stack mod really well but there are no torque specs so I wasn't exactly sure how tightly to reattach the bottom out cup to the damper assembly. I never came within 10mm of bottoming out on the same rock roll before I changed the shim stack.

Thanks for your help!!


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Imo the best setting us when the fork feels good without any clicks of HSC, I did the same mod you did, while running almost the same pressures, but I weigh 55kg 😜 so imo to compensate for the lower damping, you should add a bit more air.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

MC76000 said:


> First time posting here, thank you all so much for the incredible amount of useful information in this thread!
> I have a couple of questions about the shim stack mod from the first page. Am I right in thinking that removing or downsizing the 17.5mm shim should only change the HSC circuit?
> 
> I have a Mezzer Pro at 170mm on a Transition Sentinel, I'm 160 lbs with gear and running at 35 main, 55 IRT following Dougal's recs from the PInkbike review, I like the feel of the LSC close to closed but can only run 0-1 of HSC without the fork feeling harsh on bigger hits.
> ...


I’m a similar weight to you. IMO after initially doing the shim mod and putting a 12mm back in to replace the 17.5mm there is no way I would have wanted to go any softer. At our weight for me at least the fork would feel WAY too soft. I have since tested a 14mm and 15mm in place of the 2nd 17.5mm. I have settled on the 14mm as being the best all round but I also use a reasonable amount higher pressures than you. I am now at 170mm also and run 43psi and 70psi and I find my fork very supportive but also incredibly plush.


----------



## MC76000 (3 mo ago)

OzIbis said:


> I’m a similar weight to you. IMO after initially doing the shim mod and putting a 12mm back in to replace the 17.5mm there is no way I would have wanted to go any softer. At our weight for me at least the fork would feel WAY too soft. I have since tested a 14mm and 15mm in place of the 2nd 17.5mm. I have settled on the 14mm as being the best all round but I also use a reasonable amount higher pressures than you. I am now at 170mm also and run 43psi and 70psi and I find my fork very supportive but also incredibly plush.


It’s interesting how different pressures feel to different riders /on different bikes, I thought I would need higher pressures with the change in compression so I actually started my ride at the pressures recommended by the ccs86 calculator (44 and 70) but I ended up backed off to my original pressures because I felt like the fork was deflecting off rocks and roots in a way that felt less controlled, and adding rebound didn’t help.
I didn’t try keeping the IRT higher with the main at 35 until after I bottomed out though. 

It’s definitely possible I was relying on the compression damping to control my travel before and now I don’t have enough, I was just wondering whether I had done something weird to the bottom out damper as well, I haven’t bottomed a fork out that hard for a long time


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Just as a reference, at my weight running 35/50 psi, I can use full travel in the parking lot, without jumping, so it's nothing unusual, that you being heavier and running only slightly more in the IRT, could bottom out when running the same damping setup.
ps. what you heard may have actually been the tire bottoming against the rim, not the fork itself, I found that hitting the HBO at a fast speed, can easily compress the tire unless you're running high pressures.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Thanks for the advice [mention]cassieno [/mention]!

I dropped my main to 37psi, added 1 click of HSC, 5 clicks of LSC, and added an extra 3 clicks of rebound (so 5 clicks now). 

It was a huge improvement! My hands went from being super beat up to totally fine at the end of a ride. I was riding with a mate so didn’t have a chance to do any bracketing, so hopefully it’ll feel even better once tweak the rebound/LSC. 

Support doesn’t seem to have been affected and travel used is only slightly more, which makes me wonder if I could back off the IRT slightly.

I’ll also have a crack at greasing the IRT like [mention]CCS86 [/mention]suggested. I don’t have a tool for burnishing the bushings so that’ll have to wait until the fork goes off to a shop. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cheftuskey121 (7 mo ago)

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has contributed all of the tech tips and tricks, it has made a huge difference for me and my buddy who have switched over to Mezzer pros. 
We did a travel adjustment, greasing the pistons, changing the bath oil, and even the main piston O-ring 214 size. This is the most buttery and supportive fork I have used to date!


----------



## MC76000 (3 mo ago)

I asked Hayes tech support about the torque specs for reattaching the damper shaft to the bottom out cup and they sent me this, might be helpful for others who are looking to change the compression shim stack


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

Having great success with my Mezzer Pro LE's tuned by NSR Racing with my baseline setup very different from my previous RRT baseline. Running the NSR settings at 71/101 @ 220lbs -1 HSC -3 LSC -6 Rebound.
Fork is feeling like a mini version of my RRT Dorado. For anyone in Aus with Mezzers I can highly recommend NSR Racing's work and service.


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

MC76000 said:


> First time posting here, thank you all so much for the incredible amount of useful information in this thread!
> I have a couple of questions about the shim stack mod from the first page. Am I right in thinking that removing or downsizing the 17.5mm shim should only change the HSC circuit?
> 
> I have a Mezzer Pro at 170mm on a Transition Sentinel, I'm 160 lbs with gear and running at 35 main, 55 IRT following Dougal's recs from the PInkbike review, I like the feel of the LSC close to closed but can only run 0-1 of HSC without the fork feeling harsh on bigger hits.
> ...





OzIbis said:


> I’m a similar weight to you. IMO after initially doing the shim mod and putting a 12mm back in to replace the 17.5mm there is no way I would have wanted to go any softer. At our weight for me at least the fork would feel WAY too soft. I have since tested a 14mm and 15mm in place of the 2nd 17.5mm. I have settled on the 14mm as being the best all round but I also use a reasonable amount higher pressures than you. I am now at 170mm also and run 43psi and 70psi and I find my fork very supportive but also incredibly plush.


Guys, you modified the shim stack, what about the oil? Did you put again the same maxima 5wt? I have the stock damper but I replaced the oil with 2.5wt and it feels much better (for my taste); the stock setting feels overdamped to me.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

darius72 said:


> Guys, you modified the shim stack, what about the oil? Did you put again the same maxima 5wt? I have the stock damper but I replaced the oil with 2.5wt and it feels much better (for my taste); the stock setting feels overdamped to me.


I use Maxima 85-150 in my damper.


----------



## GumptionZA (3 mo ago)

Hi guys, i'm currently in the middle of rebuilding my mezzer pro and had a few minor issues with the disassembly that i was wondering if you could help with

1. does anyone know the compression and rebound valve stack (including which way around the piston goes if its polar sensitive)? im not entirely convinced i put the shims down in the right order as i accidentally removed the tenon nut with the piston rod still in the damper tube 

2. the how to disassemble the lower bladder mount. when i removed the damper the bladder had blown off the top mount (i think the fastener had come loose) so i want to put my spare bladder in, i used a pick to remove the old bladder, but now i need to disassemble the part to install the new bladder, does anyone know how those bits are held together? the only thing i didnt try yet is just pulling them apart, so im going to try that when i get back to the workshop tomorrow


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

wake jake said:


> Having great success with my Mezzer Pro LE's tuned by NSR Racing with my baseline setup very different from my previous RRT baseline. Running the NSR settings at 71/101 @ 220lbs -1 HSC -3 LSC -6 Rebound.
> Fork is feeling like a mini version of my RRT Dorado. For anyone in Aus with Mezzers I can highly recommend NSR Racing's work and service.


Mine are leaving Nigel's shop today. I hope they work as well for me as they seem to do for you.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

wake jake said:


> Having great success with my Mezzer Pro LE's tuned by NSR Racing with my baseline setup very different from my previous RRT baseline. Running the NSR settings at 71/101 @ 220lbs -1 HSC -3 LSC -6 Rebound.
> Fork is feeling like a mini version of my RRT Dorado. For anyone in Aus with Mezzers I can highly recommend NSR Racing's work and service.


What pressure and settings were you using with the RRT? What travel is the fork set at? I had a shock tuned by Nigel and I have to say it is pretty sensational.


----------



## Rem17 (7 mo ago)

Rem17 said:


> Has anyone ever had a chirping sound from their fork when in hot weather or dusty conditions? Only happens on compressions where the fork might be flexing a bit.


No has had any experience with this? It's getting worse on my fork even after replacing ghe oil. Sounds like it may be coming from the damper side.


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

I'm sure if you follow Nige's advice and work on fine tuning your pressures you will be impressed.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

I burnished my mezzer a few days ago,here are some impressions:

First I checked the stanction alignment and noticed that a tiny disalignement has a huge impact on friction.
It seems that my fork particularly needs to spread the lower legs a little bit.

Second idea was to compare and replace the stock seals VS the skf Green "low friction" seals.
Since I test fitted them on my sealdriver they seemed a bit tight.
Ok,the oem seals were 10 months old,but the friction of the skf Green seals on the stanctions was more than double as the oem black seal.
I installed skf Green seals on other forks and never felt a real improvement,but those 37mm seals seem too tight to me.
I reinstalled the black oem seals.

Third,I tried to get a secret ingredient from the RRT.
You may have seen one of the several videos on his Instagram were he shows the difference between RRT VS OEM stanctions/lowers.
Lots of people try to guess what he does,and he always responds proudly and promptly saying basically that you have no idea,and that he does not oversize bushings to get those results bla bla bla.
One day I wrote a comment asking if he uses cerium oxide to polish the stanctions,and guess what?
Next day he deleted that comment.
Enough for me to buy some cerium oxide and try by myself.
I can tell you that It doesn't ruined my stanctions in first place.
I polished by hand the end of the stanctions and It seems to work.
You can see the difference on how It reflects the light,and by sliding a seal through the stanctions you could feel that It was slightly easier on the polished surface.
I bought too little cerium oxide and couldn't do both stanctions but I will do it the next service.

And finally,the burnishing.

It took me 9 weeks to find and get a proper made head for the burnishing tool.
I was very excited about this,I may do the best upgrade possible on my fork,or I mess up my bushings.
My stanctions slide down under their own weight when tested separately like you see on burnished forks.
But both of them together in the lowers have a decent amount of friction,a big factor is stanctions/lowers alignment.
The upper bushings were relatively easy to do,but the lower slotted bushings were SUPER tight and It took a LOT of force.
I was genuinely afraid about breaking the lowers.
I did 3 passes,I could have probably done one more,the lower bushings were still pretty tight.

Just rode It once and I only noticed slightly less arm pump,need to give It a few more rides maybe.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

If you want to check bushing friction with both legs at the same time, you need a hub, wheel assembly, or at least a 110mm spacer installed. The arch alone doesn't properly align the lowers. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

CCS86 said:


> If you want to check bushing friction with both legs at the same time, you need a hub, wheel assembly, or at least a 110mm spacer installed. The arch alone doesn't properly align the lowers.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Thanks for the advice I already tried with and without the wheel installed.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Be aware that installing the full wheel adds enough weight to sideload the bushings and create friction. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## jlbanta (Apr 5, 2011)

Is cerium oxide polish a good idea? I would think the stanchions would loose some ability to hold oil since you'd effectively be lightly smoothing the top surface of the anodizing. Maybe its a non issue since most bath oils cling well.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

jlbanta said:


> Is cerium oxide polish a good idea? I would think the stanchions would loose some ability to hold oil since you'd effectively be lightly smoothing the top surface of the anodizing. Maybe its a non issue since most bath oils cling well.


That could be the case.

There is also an argument that says the coefficient of friction can be "U" shaped and start to go back up on ultra-smooth surfaces. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Forks polish themselves with use. I'm sure I've mentioned the story of me tuning a mates Charger 1 pike back about 2017. The fork had never used full travel, the top of the stanchions looked like a dirty glass window with dirt and water stains.
Even after a service, burnish and SKF green seals they felt gross. But 4 hours riding later they were working beautifully.

I think it's a case of how much you want to manually "break in" a fork. For me burnishing bushings and working lube into all the surfaces is the important part. Even then brand new lubed seals have some chatter that goes away after a few hours riding.

This is why friction tests on brand new seals aren't that useful. They need to wear in and spread lube to work properly.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

jlbanta said:


> Is cerium oxide polish a good idea? I would think the stanchions would loose some ability to hold oil since you'd effectively be lightly smoothing the top surface of the anodizing. Maybe its a non issue since most bath oils cling well.


In theory it's true.
But I think if you decrease the friction between the contact points,the lubrication becomes less important.
Burnishing the bushings in theory should improve the bushing/stanction lubrication on the other hand.
And like you said,if you don't have an open bath damper and you are able to use a decent bath oil I think it's not going to become a problem.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Dougal said:


> Forks polish themselves with use. I'm sure I've mentioned the story of me tuning a mates Charger 1 pike back about 2017. The fork had never used full travel, the top of the stanchions looked like a dirty glass window with dirt and water stains.
> Even after a service, burnish and SKF green seals they felt gross. But 4 hours riding later they were working beautifully.
> 
> I think it's a case of how much you want to manually "break in" a fork. For me burnishing bushings and working lube into all the surfaces is the important part. Even then brand new lubed seals have some chatter that goes away after a few hours riding.
> ...


I forgot the mention this.
My CSU has been replaced 4 months ago so it's not that old.
But I could really see how the area close the SAG,lets say the first 50mm,was more shiny than the rest,and the last 40mm were the pretty matt.

Here is a clip.
Stanction from top to bottom.
The last 40mm are polished with cerium oxide.
You can clearly see the difference even with bad video quality and focus.






I friction test seals always when replacing,but never got that much friction on new seals.
Skf seals claim to be self lubricating,on the Manitou service guide they don't tell you to Grease the seals either.
Anyway I tried with both seals degreased and lubed,and the skf Green seals are just way tighter.
I will give them a try in the future,but It seemed like they would ruin any noticeable improvement after doing the burnishing.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mikel Knight said:


> I forgot the mention this.
> My CSU has been replaced 4 months ago so it's not that old.
> But I could really see how the area close the SAG,lets say the first 50mm,was more shiny than the rest,and the last 40mm were the pretty matt.
> 
> ...


I think SKF tell you not to grease seals due to the possibility of grease reacting or hardening. I use Slickoleum on SKF seals with no issues. Lubing them with the bath oil is the necessary alternative. Put in dry all seals are grabby. The only SKF seals I've seen leaking were not lubed on install. I think they may have worn before enough lube got up there. Customer did it, not me.


----------



## Caese (Sep 22, 2021)

Hey guys, new Mezzer-Owner here.

First of I did change travel to 170 mm, lubed it up right and set pressure to 76 / 50 PSI, HSC 1 und LSC 5. Rebound fullopen. My first impressions are good (coming from a Fox36 FIT4 with Luftkappe an Vorsprung tuning, which was kind of disapointing).
I am 170 lbs / 78 kg and looking at this thread I should go lower in pressures, but rebound allready is on the slow side of things (and lower pressures might decrease reboundspeed - right?). Fully open it will not bounce; Trailperformance is okay but still a bit slow. The fork is from 12/2021 so the new shimstack should allready be in. Is it normal or might be something off? How can I speedup LSR further?


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Mikel Knight said:


> I forgot the mention this.
> My CSU has been replaced 4 months ago so it's not that old.
> But I could really see how the area close the SAG,lets say the first 50mm,was more shiny than the rest,and the last 40mm were the pretty matt.
> 
> ...


 Extremely interested in this, i believe this is the ticket that often gets overlooked...

I have tried many things over the years but never knew about cerium oxide...

How do you polish the stanchion with it, by hand or with a felt wheel on a drill? 

I imagine hard anodizing softer then glass so prob goes a bit quicker?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

boostinmini said:


> Extremely interested in this, i believe this is the ticket that often gets overlooked...
> 
> I have tried many things over the years but never knew about cerium oxide...
> 
> ...


I did It by hand with a microfiber rag.
Never polished glass with cerium oxide,but It took some time to get some visible results on the stanctions.
It's definitely not easy to overdo it.

It could be done to the inner of the stanctions to reduce friction from the air spring and to the damper body as well,but it's not as easy.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

AstonMTB on instagram has the review up of the Rulezman RRT:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CjiilNlsBfI/

He loves it.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Dougal said:


> AstonMTB on instagram has the review up of the Rulezman RRT:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CjiilNlsBfI/
> ...


On this recent video he talks about NSR tuned forks and claims that they are the best he had.

Minute 12:29


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Caese said:


> Hey guys, new Mezzer-Owner here.
> 
> First of I did change travel to 170 mm, lubed it up right and set pressure to 76 / 50 PSI, HSC 1 und LSC 5. Rebound fullopen. My first impressions are good (coming from a Fox36 FIT4 with Luftkappe an Vorsprung tuning, which was kind of disapointing).
> I am 170 lbs / 78 kg and looking at this thread I should go lower in pressures, but rebound allready is on the slow side of things (and lower pressures might decrease reboundspeed - right?). Fully open it will not bounce; Trailperformance is okay but still a bit slow. The fork is from 12/2021 so the new shimstack should allready be in. Is it normal or might be something off? How can I speedup LSR further?


At your weight and 170 mm travel I would try 45psi and 74psi. That will also make the fork a little more progressive than the pressures you are using and more plush in the initial stroke. 
The slow rebound thing keeps coming up from time to time. Personally I don’t have an issue with it and find the rebound really good. On my current set up at 170mm I run 43psi and 70psi because I’m a little bit lighter than you and my rebound is set 6 from closed and I wouldn’t want it any quicker. The only thing I can put it down to is either I’ve just gotten used to the Mezzer’s damping characteristics or people are coming from forks with very light damping on the rebound and aren’t used to the damping the Mezzer does have. A sign of too much rebound is packing and I’m definitely not getting that.


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Mikel Knight said:


> I did It by hand with a microfiber rag.
> Never polished glass with cerium oxide,but It took some time to get some visible results on the stanctions.
> It's definitely not easy to overdo it.
> 
> It could be done to the inner of the stanctions to reduce friction from the air spring and to the damper body as well,but it's not as easy.


How much did you have that you ran out? 


Just kinda curious how much i should purchase to do one csu of stanchions as a trial.


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

benno_r said:


> Mine are leaving Nigel's shop today. I hope they work as well for me as they seem to do for you.


will be interested to see your results. I'm 91kg on a 160mm and might send it to nigel as well.


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

wake jake said:


> Having great success with my Mezzer Pro LE's tuned by NSR Racing with my baseline setup very different from my previous RRT baseline. Running the NSR settings at 71/101 @ 220lbs -1 HSC -3 LSC -6 Rebound.
> Fork is feeling like a mini version of my RRT Dorado. For anyone in Aus with Mezzers I can highly recommend NSR Racing's work and service.


Hey mate is this 220lb/99kg kitted and at what fork travel?


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

davidt93 said:


> will be interested to see your results. I'm 91kg on a 160mm and might send it to nigel as well.


I'm a spritely 130kg kitted up. running the fork at 170mm. 73/108psi. Away at work for 3 weeks, so won't get a chance to test for a while but will let you know when I do.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

boostinmini said:


> How much did you have that you ran out?
> 
> 
> Just kinda curious how much i should purchase to do one csu of stanchions as a trial.


You can buy small bags on eBay or AliExpress.
I think 50 grams is going to be more than enough.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

Mikel Knight said:


> Third,I tried to get a secret ingredient from the RRT.
> You may have seen one of the several videos on his Instagram were he shows the difference between RRT VS OEM stanctions/lowers.
> Lots of people try to guess what he does,and he always responds proudly and promptly saying basically that you have no idea,and that he does not oversize bushings to get those results bla bla bla.
> One day I wrote a comment asking if he uses cerium oxide to polish the stanctions,and guess what?
> ...


Damn, you might be right! The surface finish on my stock Dorado stanchions are much more dull than my friend's Dorado RRT. Crappy phone pics below.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Two_bricks said:


> Damn, you might be right! The surface finish on my stock Dorado stanchions are much more dull than my friend's Dorado RRT. Crappy phone pics below.
> 
> View attachment 2004035
> View attachment 2004036



Thanks for the pictures!
Rulezman definitely polishes stanctions,the deleted comment and the test result I got make me think that he uses cerium oxide.
I will use your pictures as a reference to polish my own stanctions. 
Getting them that shiny polishing by hand will take quite some effort.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Ordered some myself!


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

Mikel Knight said:


> Thanks for the pictures!
> Rulezman definitely polishes stanctions,the deleted comment and the test result I got make me think that he uses cerium oxide.
> I will use your pictures as a reference to polish my own stanctions.
> Getting them that shiny polishing by hand will take quite some effort.


Likewise, nice finding of the cerium oxide polishing! Have to give it a try too.


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

I totally don't need to change anything, but I am a total DIY nerd that wants to try it. Please share what polishing method did you use!


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

slashIE said:


> I totally don't need to change anything, but I am a total DIY nerd that wants to try it. Please share what polishing method did you use!


Microfiber rag,water and cerium oxide.
I polished It by hand.


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

Did you do both legs fully now? I read your previous post that you only did small part to test if it works.


----------



## jlbanta (Apr 5, 2011)

I have a question for everyone after having a good bit of ride time on my Mezzer/Mara Pro combo. Over about 10 hours of riding, the fork became less smooth compared to day 1 (with fresh oil). More noticeable at slower trial speeds. Today, I removed the IRT, added a dab of oil (. 5cc) to the main chamber and the IRT. I set pressures like normal and went for a ride. Instantly, I noticed a smoother ride like my first few rides with the fork. I know friction plays a big role, but was surprised to have such a big change after oiling the air spring (not bushings).

I’m curious if anyone else has noticed a drastic improvement with a simple refresh? Small bump at lower trail speeds was hugely improved. Fast chunk was better etc. all around, I picked up that hovercraft feel that makes you feel like a super human.

My question is, did I feel a change in friction or maybe another variable? I checked compression damper settings, tire/shock pressures, trail conditions before riding…. It was about 10 degrees cooler outside today and I opened rebound 2 clicks. That said, it was still better before speeding up rebound.


----------



## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

jlbanta said:


> I’m curious if anyone else has noticed a drastic improvement with a simple refresh? Small bump at lower trail speeds was hugely improved. Fast chunk was better etc. all around, I picked up that hovercraft feel that makes you feel like a super human.


I had this happen this morning too and have only had the hovercraft feeling it a couple of times with this fork. The only things I did for prep today was hold the fork/bike upright to let the Supergliss bathe the bushings, and check and set all air pressures. I did bottom the fork with the air pump attached too. The feeling went away near the end of the ride.

I'll take my pump with me next time to reset everything again. Does anyone else have any other advice?


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

jlbanta said:


> I have a question for everyone after having a good bit of ride time on my Mezzer/Mara Pro combo. Over about 10 hours of riding, the fork became less smooth compared to day 1 (with fresh oil). More noticeable at slower trial speeds. Today, I removed the IRT, added a dab of oil (. 5cc) to the main chamber and the IRT. I set pressures like normal and went for a ride. Instantly, I noticed a smoother ride like my first few rides with the fork. I know friction plays a big role, but was surprised to have such a big change after oiling the air spring (not bushings).
> 
> I’m curious if anyone else has noticed a drastic improvement with a simple refresh? Small bump at lower trail speeds was hugely improved. Fast chunk was better etc. all around, I picked up that hovercraft feel that makes you feel like a super human.
> 
> My question is, did I feel a change in friction or maybe another variable? I checked compression damper settings, tire/shock pressures, trail conditions before riding…. It was about 10 degrees cooler outside today and I opened rebound 2 clicks. That said, it was still better before speeding up rebound.


When you pulled the irt was there a good amount of slickoleum on the head/seal? 

I also store my bike hanging in its vertical bike rack so the bath oil helps as well on the bushings.


----------



## jlbanta (Apr 5, 2011)

006_007 said:


> When you pulled the irt was there a good amount of slickoleum on the head/seal?


There was a thin sheen on all the IRT parts from what I saw. The IRT piston moved smooth. Down on top of the main piston there was a decent glob around the perimeter. I also hang my bike upside down from the ceiling, so bushings and seals should be well coated.


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

jlbanta said:


> My question is, did I feel a change in friction or maybe another variable? I checked compression damper settings, tire/shock pressures, trail conditions before riding…. It was about 10 degrees cooler outside today and I opened rebound 2 clicks. That said, it was still better before speeding up rebound.


Yeah I get this, too. On both my current Mezzer and the one I ran last year. I’m wondering if a few CCs of bath oil in the main chamber will do a better long-lasting job lubing the air seal than slickoleum.

After even 20 hours the air shaft feels grabby when I pull the lowers off, but the bath oil still looks perfect. I guess this is why folks like to size down that air seal.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

juice said:


> Yeah I get this, too. On both my current Mezzer and the one I ran last year. I’m wondering if a few CCs of bath oil in the main chamber will do a better long-lasting job lubing the air seal than slickoleum.
> 
> After even 20 hours the air shaft feels grabby when I pull the lowers off, but the bath oil still looks perfect. I guess this is why folks like to size down that air seal.


This fork is just screaming for a Smashpot fitment. HBO duties carried out by the damper so no need for 120ml of oil, just a blank plug on the end so the total added weight would be the least out of all the Smashpot options. Makes sooo much sense..


----------



## andyrm (Nov 12, 2018)

Just did the adding oil trick and it's made a huge improvement - fork was freshly serviced but with a 62° HA does seem slightly sensitive to friction and I'd done everything else including Sprung Suspension's (UK tuner) 'slippery weasel' on the inner faces of the wipers. This last little tweak was clearly the final missing piece so thanks for the suggestion! 👍


----------



## cookie70 (Oct 23, 2019)

Does anyone sell replacement mudgaurd for the fork? Mine got trashed on the shuttle and would like a new one


----------



## andyrm (Nov 12, 2018)

cookie70 said:


> Does anyone sell replacement mudgaurd for the fork? Mine got trashed on the shuttle and would like a new one


I keep thinking it would be great to get a 3D printed one that's a bit longer (the joys of the UK.....) more like a Mudhugger or Powa D'Fender, that fitted straight onto the fitting holes.


----------



## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

cookie70 said:


> Does anyone sell replacement mudgaurd for the fork? Mine got trashed on the shuttle and would like a new one


I bought a replacement from worldwidecyclery.


----------



## cookie70 (Oct 23, 2019)

softbatch said:


> I bought a replacement from worldwidecyclery.


cheers, got one from shockcraft (cheapest for me) but still expensive bit of plastic!


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

andyrm said:


> Just did the adding oil trick and it's made a huge improvement - fork was freshly serviced but with a 62° HA does seem slightly sensitive to friction and I'd done everything else including Sprung Suspension's (UK tuner) 'slippery weasel' on the inner faces of the wipers. This last little tweak was clearly the final missing piece so thanks for the suggestion! 👍


I did this. An old trick I used when RockSHox did dual air, and the chambers would leak. The air would escape from the + to the Neg chamber, and so I use to put 1cc of oil on the seal. That would stop the leak and, I believe make that freshly service feeling last a little longer. 

Its interesting that a couple of you noted the air spring service thing, as I definitely also noted the fork was butter smooth after I did a "all of the above" service. I have about 25 hours on mine since and although I don't think its that same buttery smooth anymore, Its defiantly not bad. So much so that I did not even bother doing it for a big regional race we had 3 weeks ago. So perhaps the oil did help a bit.


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

I did the capful of bath oil in the air chamber thing and went for a solid ride. Well, it started as a solid ride before I got wonky going into a gap and made a chalupa of my rear wheel when I came up short. Not quite a taco, but it's new rim time and I had to go easy the rest of the ride.

It made such a huge difference that my fork felt divey and needed both a few clicks of compression and a couple PSI in the main. Honestly, I was getting frustrated with the small bump and starting to think about the new RockShox (maybe with Luftkappe or Runt), but this has me stoked on the Mezzer again.

I highly recommend this to improve air seal friction. So easy to do, just air down, pull the IRT piston, add a wee bit of oil, done.

Weird that Manitou doesn't do this as standard operating procedure. Other MFRs do (Fox, etc). I wonder why not? Possible oil migrating into the neg chamber? Seems unlikely to be a problem.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

juice said:


> Possible oil migrating into the neg chamber? Seems unlikely to be a problem.


Yes. 

If that oil can make it to the maximum friction point of the o ring to lubricate, it can make it beyond that point.

Not a problem if you don’t mind draining negative and topping off positive often.


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

nmxtrdr said:


> Yes.
> 
> If that oil can make it to the maximum friction point of the o ring to lubricate, it can make it beyond that point.
> 
> Not a problem if you don’t mind draining negative and topping off positive often.


Hopefully any oil that gets into the neg chamber will migrate through the air shaft seal into the lowers. A small amount could be a good thing, but we don't want to be shrinking that neg volume. I guess time will tell.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

juice said:


> I did the capful of bath oil in the air chamber thing and went for a solid ride. Well, it started as a solid ride before I got wonky going into a gap and made a chalupa of my rear wheel when I came up short. Not quite a taco, but it's new rim time and I had to go easy the rest of the ride.
> 
> It made such a huge difference that my fork felt divey and needed both a few clicks of compression and a couple PSI in the main. Honestly, I was getting frustrated with the small bump and starting to think about the new RockShox (maybe with Luftkappe or Runt), but this has me stoked on the Mezzer again.
> 
> ...


I was about to come post here asking the same question. Great to see an easy solution right where I needed it.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

If anyone is keen for a Smashpot coil for the Mezzer now is the time to email Steve at Vorsprung to let him know.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

springs said:


> If anyone is keen for a Smashpot coil for the Mezzer now is the time to email Steve at Vorsprung to let him know.


Done! Do it folks…send a note to Vorsprung that you want this. The Smashpot is a great upgrade. Did it on a Pike a few years ago and transformed the fork from just hohum to great, despite the crappy Pike RT3 damper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

springs said:


> If anyone is keen for a Smashpot coil for the Mezzer now is the time to email Steve at Vorsprung to let him know.


Ya, ok I could be interested. I am up near their shop tomorrow so may even stick my head in the door.


----------



## jlbanta (Apr 5, 2011)

juice said:


> Weird that Manitou doesn't do this as standard operating procedure. Other MFRs do (Fox, etc). I wonder why not? Possible oil migrating into the neg chamber? Seems unlikely to be a problem.


Fox used to spec the thick float fluid on top of the air piston. Rockshox 2023 forks call for 3cc in the pos and 1cc in the neg air spring (heavy oil). The difference between manitou and other brands is the positive/negative chamber dimple. The manitou air spring does not have this dimple so oil migration is far less likely on the manitou design.



nmxtrdr said:


> If that oil can make it to the maximum friction point of the o ring to lubricate, it can make it beyond that point.


Hmm, good thought; however, if a smaller air molecules do not migrate past the seal how would oil? If this were the case, you'd have to top off pressure mid ride? Even so, I only added 0.5 cc's of oil. After a few cycles of the air piston, the oil would cling to the walls and you wouldn't see a puddle of oil if you looked inside. I'll check for oil migration after more hours on the fork, but I'll happily reduce my service intervals if needed. The difference in ride feel was enough to warrant the headache.



juice said:


> Hopefully any oil that gets into the neg chamber will migrate through the air shaft seal into the lowers. A small amount could be a good thing, but we don't want to be shrinking that neg volume. I guess time will tell.


Doubtful it'd leak past into the lowers if it migrated from positive to negative. The negative pressure is highest at full extension which is the main chamber set pressure. It'd have to migrate past with only 30-50psi of pressure. For the main piston quad ring seal, the pressure rises as the fork compresses, so migration would be more likely with higher pressures at bottom out.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

jlbanta said:


> Hmm, good thought; however, if a smaller air molecules do not migrate past the seal how would oil? If this were the case, you'd have to top off pressure mid ride?


Air does indeed make it past the seal. Routine balancing of IRT to Main is needed on my Mezzer.

Not trying to spoil your experiment but if oil on top of the piston stayed where appropriate it would be common practice. I have tried, and still catch myself contemplating another go before remembering the headache. When oil passes to the neg chamber and reduces that volume, the harshness becomes worse than if you had just used grease to begin with.


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

(Over) thinking about the main piston more since it's too smoky for a lunch ride...

My fork felt great when new. It's about 6 months in that I notice the friction a few rides after greasing. Not a small guy and I put in a good amount of vert on tech, so 6 months is a lot of wear and tear. 

I think that piston seal is wearing over time and then performing sub-optimally. I notice the same with wiper seals on all forks, they don't leak, but get stickier. I'm looking for the best balance of long-lasting performance, so don't want to be worrying about oil migration.

I'm going to try replacing that air seal whenever I do a lower service and see how it goes, and give the smaller size quad seal a shot after winter.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

juice said:


> I did the capful of bath oil in the air chamber thing and went for a solid ride. Well, it started as a solid ride before I got wonky going into a gap and made a chalupa of my rear wheel when I came up short. Not quite a taco, but it's new rim time and I had to go easy the rest of the ride.
> 
> It made such a huge difference that my fork felt divey and needed both a few clicks of compression and a couple PSI in the main. Honestly, I was getting frustrated with the small bump and starting to think about the new RockShox (maybe with Luftkappe or Runt), but this has me stoked on the Mezzer again.
> 
> ...


Because oil migrates from the positive to negative chambers relatively quickly and causes your fork to lose height as it does that. Then the seal runs dry again. Manitou used oil in the Mattoc (same air spring design) and changed to grease ~2017. If you have a seal friction problem, grease it better. If you have air migration then change the seal.

A capful of oil can be 5cc.


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

Gentlemen, Surely something is up, if an air seal cant keep oil? Perhaps its because I run lower pressures, perhaps Ive been lucky, but even my Pike, I have not had to add air between service intervals. I'm not the expert here, but air is like 1000 times less viscous than shock oil?



Dougal said:


> *Because oil migrates from the positive to negative chambers relatively quickly and causes your fork to lose height as it does that. * Then the seal runs dry again. Manitou used oil in the Mattoc (same air spring design) and changed to grease ~2017. If you have a seal friction problem, grease it better. If you have air migration then change the seal.
> 
> A capful of oil can be 5cc.


 @Dougal So the oil ends up acting like a travel spacer? Interesting that they changed back to the grease. That says something..


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Bosbefok said:


> Gentlemen, Surely something is up, if an air seal cant keep oil? Perhaps its because I run lower pressures, perhaps Ive been lucky, but even my Pike, I have not had to add air between service intervals. I'm not the expert here, but air is like 1000 times less viscous than shock oil?
> 
> 
> @Dougal So the oil ends up acting like a travel spacer? Interesting that they changed back to the grease. That says something..


It's not a static environment that it is sealing. The high speed of the air piston, and oil film formation on the wall contribute significantly. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Bosbefok said:


> Gentlemen, Surely something is up, if an air seal cant keep oil? Perhaps its because I run lower pressures, perhaps Ive been lucky, but even my Pike, I have not had to add air between service intervals. I'm not the expert here, but air is like 1000 times less viscous than shock oil?
> 
> 
> @Dougal So the oil ends up acting like a travel spacer? Interesting that they changed back to the grease. That says something..


Air is easy to seal, oil is hard. Oil fills the pores on the stanchion walls and forms a film which the seal slides over. The constant sliding and gravity make oil migrate down.
Grease film stays in place. Oil migrates down.

This happens on all forks. Doesn't matter who makes them.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

If anyone broke their fender/mudguard and need one I have 2 sitting here. I sold my Mezzer so no need for them


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> If anyone broke their fender/mudguard and need one I have 2 sitting here. I sold my Mezzer so no need for them


Pm me how much you want for them.


----------



## eeyore2012 (Feb 5, 2009)

Anybody have any cold weather tips? Different semibath oil probably?

We recently had a pretty cold morning for this time of year (barely below freezing) and I went for a ride. I wouldnt call it harsh, but definitely noticeably more feedback, compression and rebound felt much slower. I did double check air pressure for the fork and shock right at trail head and had to air both up some for sure. oddly enough the shock (mara pro) felt ok, but the mezzer was complaining about the cold along with my hands and feet, haha. now that its warm again fork feels normal.

once winter finally hits us I always ride below freezing (prob 20F at the coldest) cause we have such bad freeze/thaw on any given winter day, and Id rather ride on frozen ground than peanut butter, not to mention messing up the trails. even if theres no freeze thaw going on my winter rides would be below 50F at the warmest

thanks

edit: forgot to include my settings if thats helpful. rider weight 170#. bike head angle 64.5, running at 160mm travel, irt @ 75 main @ 45, rebound and compressions all the way open. newer fork so it has the updated (faster?) rebound tune


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

bath oil is easy to swap and probably has the biggest effect.
supergliss 32k would be the best option, but motorex fully synthetic or polar synthetic would be good option too.





Fork Bath Oils | Shockcraft







www.shockcraft.co.nz


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

eeyore2012 said:


> Anybody have any cold weather tips? Different semibath oil probably?
> 
> We recently had a pretty cold morning for this time of year (barely below freezing) and I went for a ride. I wouldnt call it harsh, but definitely noticeably more feedback, compression and rebound felt much slower. I did double check air pressure for the fork and shock right at trail head and had to air both up some for sure. oddly enough the shock (mara pro) felt ok, but the mezzer was complaining about the cold along with my hands and feet, haha. now that its warm again fork feels normal.
> 
> ...


My winter oils are normally Motorex Polar Synthetic and my Shockcraft Hot Oil Pink.
I went through the last winter with Supergliss 68K and below freezing the fork was pretty slow and the Super Deluxe rear coil was worse (had my Mara Pro off for tuning). I haven't yet tried the Supergliss 32K bath oil in the cold. My winter testing time is limited.


----------



## N0RTHERNR0GUE (May 14, 2020)

Have about 2-3mm of suckdown on my mezzer, I've tried pulling the lowers to topout with bike flipped and attaching shock pump, screwed on fully (dual stage pump) and there's still suck down. Is this normal? It's been normal for me on my 36 and pike that I owned however just wanted to check. It's been performing flawlessly, have had the mezzer for a month and love it.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

N0RTHERNR0GUE said:


> Have about 2-3mm of suckdown on my mezzer, I've tried pulling the lowers to topout with bike flipped and attaching shock pump, screwed on fully (dual stage pump) and there's still suck down. Is this normal? It's been normal for me on my 36 and pike that I owned however just wanted to check. It's been performing flawlessly, have had the mezzer for a month and love it.


Not normal.

Try hooking up the pump, then aggressively pushing the fork to bottom out a number of times to clear the transfer port. Then unweight the front wheel, make sure it is topped out and disconnect. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## N0RTHERNR0GUE (May 14, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Not normal.
> 
> Try hooking up the pump, then aggressively pushing the fork to bottom out a number of times to clear the transfer port. Then unweight the front wheel, make sure it is topped out and disconnect.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


will give that a shot, thanks


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

also try bleeding the lowers at top out...maybe you've pull and vacuum in the lowers that is sucking the fork down.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> If anyone broke their fender/mudguard and need one I have 2 sitting here. I sold my Mezzer so no need for them


What'd you replace it with?


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Mezzer Pro delivered today. Haven't owned a Manitou product since 1997. Will follow the below. Working on Fox forks for years I'm a little anxious.

*New Owner To-do List:*

Drop lowers and check semi-bath oil level
Motorex Power Synt 4t 5w40 (Link)
Supergliss [*100k*: _5 - 30C+_], [*68k*: _0 - 30C_], [*32k*: _-5 - 20C_] (Link)

Remove and grease main air and IRT pistons (Slickoleum)
Always fill IRT air first (from empty), to ensure the IRT piston is fully extended
When filling main air make sure to thread pump on until it stops. This is crucial to ensure the negative chamber is filled. With the pump still connected, you should be able to fully compress the fork without too much effort.


----------



## N0RTHERNR0GUE (May 14, 2020)

westin said:


> Mezzer Pro delivered today. Haven't owned a Manitou product since 1997. Will follow the below. Working on Fox forks for years I'm a little anxious.
> 
> *New Owner To-do List:*
> 
> ...


I've never serviced a fork before, was piss easy honestly dropping the travel and stuff.


----------



## N0RTHERNR0GUE (May 14, 2020)

Thanks for the help regarding the suck down, I think I fixed it, however I just discovered my mezzer's fender has cracked where the bolt is, didn't think I overtightened it more than what it should've been, thought it was flimsy as hell stock but I guess I did it too tight. With that being said, anybody found a different type of fender that wroks great with the mezzer? Don't want to buy the stock one lol, I'd like to know if there's something else.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The stock one has worked fine for me for years now. Just barely snug the bolts down and use blue loctite

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## N0RTHERNR0GUE (May 14, 2020)

Damnit haha, guess I will just take it off and run without, it's out of stock on bike24 for now, which is where I usually buy from so shipping doesn't kill me. Unless there's alternatives. Maybe I'll just leave it on for now, it doesnt flap around it's just that there's only 2 bolts holding it in now pretty much


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

You can just bolster that mounting point. Glue a small piece of plastic across the broken part of the flange and drill a hole for the bolt.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## N0RTHERNR0GUE (May 14, 2020)

Good idea, I'll just go and jerry rig the hell out of it to save money lol, maybe some tape or something I can find. I'll figure something out


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

westin said:


> Mezzer Pro delivered today. Haven't owned a Manitou product since 1997. Will follow the below. Working on Fox forks for years I'm a little anxious.
> 
> *New Owner To-do List:*
> 
> ...


It's much easier to work on than a fox fork. Manitou, Rockshox, Fox is the order from easiest to hardest (for me). 

Just make sure you have a cassette tool handy to remove the airspring (you can collapse it or use Manitous tool)


----------



## Bosbefok (Oct 23, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> It's not a static environment that it is sealing. The high speed of the air piston, and oil film formation on the wall contribute significantly.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Makes sense..



Dougal said:


> Air is easy to seal, oil is hard. Oil fills the pores on the stanchion walls and forms a film which the seal slides over. The constant sliding and gravity make oil migrate down.
> Grease film stays in place. Oil migrates down.
> 
> This happens on all forks. Doesn't matter who makes them.


Also makes sense. Especially when considering the static environment @CCS86 mentioned.

This explains why they went back to grease..

Thanks for the replies gents.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

cassieno said:


> It's much easier to work on than a fox fork. Manitou, Rockshox, Fox is the order from easiest to hardest (for me).
> 
> Just make sure you have a cassette tool handy to remove the airspring (you can collapse it or use Manitous tool)


I have two cassette tools, but doubtful they'll be long enough. Fork arrives in 160 mode which my frame takes, but I'm presuming I'll need the tool to remove and grease main air piston? When mailman delivers fork this afternoon it'll all start making sense. If not, I'll be back!


----------



## nicolaifranckxx (3 mo ago)

N0RTHERNR0GUE said:


> Thanks for the help regarding the suck down, I think I fixed it, however I just discovered my mezzer's fender has cracked where the bolt is, didn't think I overtightened it more than what it should've been, thought it was flimsy as hell stock but I guess I did it too tight. With that being said, anybody found a different type of fender that wroks great with the mezzer? Don't want to buy the stock one lol, I'd like to know if there's something else.


how did you fix the dusck down? I have the same issue but about 10mm. after lowering the travel...


----------



## nicolaifranckxx (3 mo ago)

Hi Question: I just lowered the travel of my new Mezzer Expert from 180 to 160mm. The problem is it not extending to full travel atuomatically. In fact it does extend to about 160mm but then I can pull another 10mm out of it so to around 170. I already did a lot of research and I understand it might be air in the negative chamber, however it tried everything to release that air. Including bleeding with ports and zip tie, pushing and extend the fork quickly, opening the fork again and checking is the equalising port is free,.. Also changed the oil.. I haven't made a test ride yet but I presume its gonna affect the performance... I'm pretty desperate atm, especially since Manitou service in Europe is quite bad. Did anyone have this issue or know what it could be? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

westin said:


> I have two cassette tools, but doubtful they'll be long enough. Fork arrives in 160 mode which my frame takes, but I'm presuming I'll need the tool to remove and grease main air piston? When mailman delivers fork this afternoon it'll all start making sense. If not, I'll be back!


You just need a normal cassette tool to remove the airspring. Manitou's slotted cassette tool allows you to do this without collapsing the airspring, but look on youtube if you don't want to buy that tool.



nicolaifranckxx said:


> Hi Question: I just lowered the travel of my new Mezzer Expert from 180 to 160mm. The problem is it not extending to full travel atuomatically. In fact it does extend to about 160mm but then I can pull another 10mm out of it so to around 170. I already did a lot of research and I understand it might be air in the negative chamber, however it tried everything to release that air. Including bleeding with ports and zip tie, pushing and extend the fork quickly, opening the fork again and checking is the equalising port is free,.. Also changed the oil.. I haven't made a test ride yet but I presume its gonna affect the performance... I'm pretty desperate atm, especially since Manitou service in Europe is quite bad. Did anyone have this issue or know what it could be? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!



Did you try attaching your shock pump and pulling the fork up 10mm?


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

I use a detachable hose with presta head from an old frame mounted tire pump. Much more convenient than to grab a pump with oily hands or have a weight hang off the end everytime you need to compress the air spring rod. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## N0RTHERNR0GUE (May 14, 2020)

nicolaifranckxx said:


> how did you fix the dusck down? I have the same issue but about 10mm. after lowering the travel...


I followed what CCS86 said to do, ensure the shock pump is fully on very tight, then compress to bottom out a few times, then I put it in a bike stand and pulled the fork to topout, then disconnect.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

cassieno said:


> You just need a normal cassette tool to remove the airspring. Manitou's slotted cassette tool allows you to do this without collapsing the airspring, but look on youtube if you don't want to buy that tool.


Just watched YT. Wow, it's such an easy fork to tear down and work on.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I got 36 miles out of my last Mezzer lowers service before I started feeling a ton of Stiction in the fork. Has anyone else run into that before? Granted 25 of those 36 miles were at a bike park. I had put RS 5WT in it.

Anyway just serviced - new quad seal (for the link in the 1st thread), Slickoleam, and the Motex power synt 4T. Right now it all feels good.



westin said:


> Just watched YT. Wow, it's such an easy fork to tear down and work on.


Reattaching the brake caliper / line is the most annoying part of the service.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cassieno said:


> I got 36 miles out of my last Mezzer lowers service before I started feeling a ton of Stiction in the fork. Has anyone else run into that before? Granted 25 of those 36 miles were at a bike park. I had put RS 5WT in it.
> 
> Anyway just serviced - new quad seal (for the link in the 1st thread), Slickoleam, and the Motex power synt 4T. Right now it all feels good.
> 
> ...


You put RS 5wt in the lowers? That stiff isn't slippery.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

That must have been it. First time I have used the RS stuff.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cassieno said:


> That must have been it. First time I have used the RS stuff.


I once had two Dorado come in for racers who had used that in them. Felt like the forks were full of sand. After a full strip and finding nothing wrong, put Motorex in them and back to smooth and supple!


----------



## nicolaifranckxx (3 mo ago)

hugelick said:


> also try bleeding the lowers at top out...maybe you've pull and vacuum in the lowers that is sucking the fork down.


What do you mean by bleeding the lowers at top out? Keeping the fork topped out and then defeating and inflating?

The weird thing with my fork is it does extend to the normal 160mm but I can pull another 10 to 170mm. This is not normal right?

Does you stanchion meassure the travel exactly?


cassieno said:


> You just need a normal cassette tool to remove the airspring. Manitou's slotted cassette tool allows you to do this without collapsing the airspring, but look on youtube if you don't want to buy that tool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

My 5 months old replaced CSU is creaking again.
Anyone has positive experience using loctite 638 without removing stanctions and steerer?


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Mikel Knight said:


> My 5 months old replaced CSU is creaking again.
> Anyone has positive experience using loctite 638 without removing stanctions and steerer?


I've taken a heat gun warmed up the crown dripped 638 in every single crown I've had. I rarely get a creaky fork. Once it's starts its 50/50 it'll work.


----------



## Openbath (3 mo ago)

The original post suggests using Maxima Supergliss for lubricating the lowers, 68k if in reasonable cold climate. I’m not able to get that where I live unless I buy 5 litre (it is originally made for slow glide bearings and not for bikes). What would be a good substitute? 

The new Rockshoks are advertising they use “maxima plush dynamic suspension lube light” like it was a feature of the fork and not just $1 worth of oil in each fork. But it still can be a good oil.

In my Lyrik, I used R.S.P No Stick Slip additive with noticeable difference and also used synthetic motor oil instead of Rockshox 0w30, with no clear difference.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Mikel Knight said:


> My 5 months old replaced CSU is creaking again.
> Anyone has positive experience using loctite 638 without removing stanctions and steerer?


Do good prep work. Flush rubbing alcohol through, blast out with compressed air and repeat. If the gap is very clean and you let it cure long enough, it should definitely help. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

Openbath said:


> The original post suggests using Maxima Supergliss for lubricating the lowers, 68k if in reasonable cold climate. I’m not able to get that where I live unless I buy 5 litre (it is originally made for slow glide bearings and not for bikes). What would be a good substitute?
> 
> The new Rockshoks are advertising they use “maxima plush dynamic suspension lube light” like it was a feature of the fork and not just $1 worth of oil in each fork. But it still can be a good oil.
> 
> In my Lyrik, I used R.S.P No Stick Slip additive with noticeable difference and also used synthetic motor oil instead of Rockshox 0w30, with no clear difference.


I use 1 part Fox Gold 20w 2 parts Mobil 1 0w-30 engine oil in my lowers all year round and my fork always feels nice and smooth and well lubed. I did try Supergliss 100 once in temps around 16 degrees Celsius and it felt slow and draggy. That stuff is THICK. It probably would have been fine in summer but I don’t want to stuff around using different oils at different times of the year. I’ve used that mix in DVO, RockShox and my Mezzer Pro and it’s been perfect.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nicolaifranckxx said:


> What do you mean by bleeding the lowers at top out? Keeping the fork topped out and then defeating and inflating?
> 
> The weird thing with my fork is it does extend to the normal 160mm but I can pull another 10 to 170mm. This is not normal right?
> 
> ...


Pull your lowers off and see which shaft isn't fully extending.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> Do good prep work. Flush rubbing alcohol through, blast out with compressed air and repeat. If the gap is very clean and you let it cure long enough, it should definitely help.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


I have had zero luck with loctite on any CSU while actually using 290 wicking. Doubt 638 is going to work.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Here's the problem with creaking stanchions:

__
http://instagr.am/p/BvuzOcCFLO9/

The sockets end up with aluminium debris that has fretted off the crown and stanchion. This all needs cleaned off to stop the noise. Bonding from there will stop it recurring but it is very difficult to bond anodised aluminium. It took a significant amount of R&D to find agents that work.


----------



## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

_Rant alert..._ The creaky stanchion thing is why I'll never own a single crown that's out of warranty. In the last 8 years I've had exactly one fork that made it 12 months without creaking CSU. Fox a couple months, Manitou about a year, RS about a year, DVO Onyx is the only fork that lasted 2 years (other friends had them creak), but it made all kinds of other noise. It's not just me, happens to a lot of the people I ride with. For some reason we're not willing to move to "trail" dual crowns or design single crowns with more crown overlap/bonding/whatever it takes. Let's increase the standard axle-to-crown by 10mm, add some good glue to the assembly, and fix this **** once and for all. Ok, I feel better now


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I am with you completely. I don't understand why they don't fix the weak point.

Side note - thanks for making those Abit shorts. They are great and I'll be buying another pair for sure.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

irck said:


> How much stanchion should show above the travel ring when the fork has bottomed out? I pushed down with a pump attached and the fork still had 13 or 14mm left on the outside edge of the stanchion.
> 
> I’m running mine at 140mm so I’m just curious if this is actually full travel. The travel ring measures 135m from the top of the fork seals but 140mm from the top of the lowers themselves. Do I still have 5mm left in the tank?
> 
> ...







For anyone wondering where the o-ring should sit at bottom out. 

The info at the start of this thread is epic. I hadn’t read the first post in forever so not sure how long this vid has been there for. Thanks again [mention]CCS86 [/mention] 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Videos made travel change a breeze. Slickoleum was good from factory, oil levels seriously low. Easiest fork I've ever torn apart. Went on Ripmo V2 with Float X rear.

Read Google spreadsheet first post, set sag, playing with IRT, high and low compression set full open for today's breakin ride (165 pounds RTR), rebound 5.

Extremely pleased except front hose guide will not screw in, and not wanting to strip the screws or spend another 15 minutes I routed it behind arch with zip tie and placed black tape where hose rubs front of crown.


----------



## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

be careful with the hose clamp, i think, from memory, it screws in at an unusal angle


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

westin said:


> Videos made travel change a breeze. Slickoleum was good from factory, oil levels seriously low. Easiest fork I've ever torn apart. Went on Ripmo V2 with Float X rear.
> 
> Read Google spreadsheet first post, set sag, playing with IRT, high and low compression set full open for today's breakin ride (165 pounds RTR), rebound 5.
> 
> Extremely pleased except front hose guide will not screw in, and not wanting to strip the screws or spend another 15 minutes I routed it behind arch with zip tie and placed black tape where hose rubs front of crown.


Have you got the right screw? Hose guide screw is smaller than the mud-guard screw.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Have you got the right screw? Hose guide screw is smaller than the mud-guard screw.


Three screws in bag. I went for the smallest. At least think I did.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

westin said:


> Three screws in bag. I went for the smallest. At least think I did.


Should be four screws. Check the floor. Three M4's for the mudguard and and I think M3 for the hose guide.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Should be four screws. Check the floor. Three M4's for the mudguard and and I think M3 for the hose guide.


Pretty sure the three for fender are button head and the cable guide is socket head, if that helps.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Should be four screws. Check the floor. Three M4's for the mudguard and and I think M3 for the hose guide.


Huh, mine also only came with 3 m4. Obviously could not secure the brake line guide so I just used the zip tie. It's lighter that way......


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

The cable hose screw is placed in the corner of the big bag that holds the fender and all the parts. It can easily go undetected.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

lukam said:


> The cable hose screw is placed in the corner of the big bag that holds the fender and all the parts. It can easily go undetected.


Just opened my fender bag. No cable hose screw. Either it dropped on floor when opening package or Manitou forgot it. I don't plan to sell fork for long time so I'll source a replacement then.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

It should not fall out. It's sealed in the corner separate from the rest.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

lukam said:


> It should not fall out. It's sealed in the corner separate from the rest.
> View attachment 2007686


Obviously I was not cut out for a career in CSI or forensics. Found it! Many thanks.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Anybody know where to source the Mezzer Pro Seal kit? Or better yet, just the main air piston quad seal. I'm having the stuck down issue with both of my Mezzers now. Manitou says they won't have any until mid January and Internet search only shows a place in Germany. I did order the kit from them but it's been stuck in Germany for 2 weeks. Kind of annoying that Manitou can't provide a customer with a basic seal kit.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

First post has a link to the under-sized air piston seal. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

woodyak said:


> Anybody know where to source the Mezzer Pro Seal kit? Or better yet, just the main air piston quad seal. I'm having the stuck down issue with both of my Mezzers now. Manitou says they won't have any until mid January and Internet search only shows a place in Germany. I did order the kit from them but it's been stuck in Germany for 2 weeks. Kind of annoying that Manitou can't provide a customer with a basic seal kit.


Any decent automotive/industrial bearing shop should have a 214 quad seal in stock. You’ll have to go to a bearing shop though not just any auto store.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

woodyak said:


> Anybody know where to source the Mezzer Pro Seal kit? Or better yet, just the main air piston quad seal. I'm having the stuck down issue with both of my Mezzers now. Manitou says they won't have any until mid January and Internet search only shows a place in Germany. I did order the kit from them but it's been stuck in Germany for 2 weeks. Kind of annoying that Manitou can't provide a customer with a basic seal kit.


Quad 214 - https://www.amazon.com/Sur-Seal-XP70BUN214-Quad-Ring-Buna/dp/B01F72WT54 

I bought a pack from them direct, PM me and I will send you a couple.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The link in post one is a 25 pack for $2 more.

$10 each vs $0.50 each. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

I have a bunch of them left, if anyone needs some just let me know


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

@wake jake 
@jake lecluse 

Same person? Both have had these niche forks (RRT and NSR), live in the same area and have differing views on which is better.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

woodyak said:


> Anybody know where to source the Mezzer Pro Seal kit? Or better yet, just the main air piston quad seal. I'm having the stuck down issue with both of my Mezzers now. Manitou says they won't have any until mid January and Internet search only shows a place in Germany. I did order the kit from them but it's been stuck in Germany for 2 weeks. Kind of annoying that Manitou can't provide a customer with a basic seal kit.


O-Ring kit: Manitou Mezzer Pro 2020+ O-Ring Kit (Shockcraft) | Shockcraft
Complete service kit: Fork Service Kit for Manitou Mezzer 2020+ Forks | Shockcraft


----------



## sselhtrim (Nov 6, 2021)

tried topping up oil through the bleed ports but the chambers are too pressurised for any oil to go in, doesn't seem like a good idea.


----------



## jake lecluse (Dec 24, 2021)

@springs 

Same person


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

jake lecluse said:


> @springs
> 
> Same person


So which is better/worse and why?


----------



## jake lecluse (Dec 24, 2021)

@springs
Hard to make a fair comparison. Never quite got the RRT's setup before I sold them due to incoming NSR's . Found Dave's settings too firm for me and was working my way down in pressures to find a setup.
However Nige's service and advice is the best I've experienced in 17yrs of MTB'ing.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

sselhtrim said:


> tried topping up oil through the bleed ports but the chambers are too pressurised for any oil to go in, doesn't seem like a good idea.


Just drop the lowers and do a proper lower service. It’s dead easy. Put 21ml of oil in when you do it and service once every 50 hrs or so. Way less hassle.


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

But in real world is there any difference between motorex supergliss and general 5w40 0w40 or 10w40 motoroil? I use 4T motor oil...just curious.


----------



## OzIbis (Apr 27, 2020)

darius72 said:


> But in real world is there any difference between motorex supergliss and general 5w40 0w40 or 10w40 motoroil? I use 4T motor oil...just curious.


Yes a very big difference if you are using Supergliss 100. It is VERY thick and if you use it in lower temperatures the fork becomes very draggy and slow recovering from hits. Pretty much the same deal with Fox Gold 20w. IBoth would be fine in hot temps but not cooler climates. So you need to choose what you are going to use based on your climate. I use a mix I make up that works all year round so it’s not an issue.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Why would you use motor oil? It all has additives that are for very specific non-fork purposes.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

cassieno said:


> Why would you use motor oil? It all has additives that are for very specific non-fork purposes.


Because it’s readily available for cheap, and Manitou specs it…??


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

cassieno said:


> Why would you use motor oil? It all has additives that are for very specific non-fork purposes.


Because bath oil doesn't really care, unlike damper fluid oil.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cassieno said:


> Why would you use motor oil? It all has additives that are for very specific non-fork purposes.


The stock oil is Motorex Power Synt 5W40. It's used because it lubricates well, clings very well and has a wide temperature range. (works in -15C)
Supergliss is a special lube oil that lubricates a little better but has a narrower temperature range. At -8C I've had Supergliss 100K get thick enough to push past good wiper seals.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> First post has a link to the under-sized air piston seal.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Thanks for that. I ordered those from Amazon and swapped in a new quad seal and I'm still having the same issue. My fork is set to 140mm. I followed the Mezzer manual verbatim and lubed up the quad ring real good. When I air things up (IRT first, main/neg chamber second with bike in the rack) I can push on the fork and it doesn't lose travel. I went for about an hour ride on fireroads and I'm losing 5mm. 3 rides later I'm losing 8mm. When I put the shock pump on the main chamber I pull the fork out and it equalizes, but then problem returns on the next ride. What should I look at next?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Sounds like you either have damage to the inner wall that the main air seal rides on, or the valve in the air filler assembly is leaking.

You could try using straps to hold the fork compressed and see if you lose height after a day or two. That would suggest the valve, since you aren't constantly sweeping past a damaged surface. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Sounds like you either have damage to the inner wall that the main air seal rides on, or the valve in the air filler assembly is leaking.
> 
> You could try using straps to hold the fork compressed and see if you lose height after a day or two. That would suggest the valve, since you aren't constantly sweeping past a damaged surface.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


I cleaned and inspected the inner wall pretty good when I was in there last. I'll give your test a go. I may just send it in. This fork had the same problem out of the box when I first bought it. They sent it back fixed w/o explanation. Now the problem is back. Losing patience with this thing...


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Trying to hone in on the Mezzer setup for me; 84kg, stock oil weights, 214 quad ring, 12mm HSC shim, intermediate tech/gnar rider - copy paste my notes…


Skyline - more linear setting 70/50 24%
LSC closed, HSC open, Rebound 8 out.
Excellent climbing and was extremely wet/rocky excellent grip, 80% travel used - downhill grade wasn’t severe, need more pop/midstroke and babyhead eating.

Whites Level - from above tried 77/50, same damping, then Rebound 7 out.
Small bump / climbing not ‘as’ good.
75% travel used - grade and speed higher.
All in all preferred previous setup but can’t get that Fox38 small bump/pop/midstroke and babyhead eating all in one. END.

To clarify the Mezzer is doing great for sure, if I drop the main pressure any more there’s too much sag/geometry loss on the steeps.
Pressures in notes above getting 25% static sag.

I don’t know if anyone has ridden the Fox38 but it is a belter, nothing like a 36, I hope Fox update the 2024 36 to 38 innards.
My Fox38 setup was 20% sag static.

Dougal back in post I think #838 you spoke of some mid valve work, would this achieve what I’m after??


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Fox38 (170mm) settings if useful to anyone;

85psi no tokens
HSC 7 out
LSC 12 out
LSR 8 out
HSR 6 out


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Some input on my week old Mezzer Pro 160. Winter is here and my Ripmo V2 sees use as a relaxing day-off Zone 2 training on relatively tame dirt roads which are either hardpack sand with square edge holes or rocks the size of golf balls up to fist-sized. Gives the gravel bike and hardtail a break, ha. I had a few days use of dry "real" trails at high speed, g-outs, deep sand with braking bumps. The fork was going through break-in (after doing new fork service #1 thread post), and it performed very, very well. Started tinkering and dropping psi. Sag anywhere from 25 to 30 percent. Yesterday was the following setup, but did not take sag settings pre-ride. We were headed out the door before weather turned.

165 pounds (75kg) ready to ride on Ripmo V2
40/62
1 click LSC
Open HSC
5 out Rebound (I think, there was no packing on high speed chatter)

Had 42/62 last week for the easy day-off cruising but wanted to see if a little more plushness on the big gravel/small rocks high speed descents could be achieved. And it was. Obviously with these more pedestrian paced winter ride conditions my IRT and big hit performance are not a priority.

Reading about the 17 to 12 shim, and I have no real desire to do that now/base training on gravel and HT mostly.

Next time will try Dougal's setup from the Pinkbike/Kazimer Oct 11 2019 reply. Think it was page 18 here. Close LSC and 35/55psi. Will measure pre-ride sag.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

@westin how were your hands/arm pump?
When I rode both my Mezzers on stock damper guts I found them harsh, admittedly higher air pressures too as 84Kg.
I know the 12mm shim is quite involved to do but it really does make the small bump awesome.

Out riding again today and I think what I need to achieve is a more linear spring rate along with more mid compression damping to compensate for what will inevitably be a softer overall spring rate. Any ideas how to achieve this?


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

DG370 said:


> @westin how were your hands/arm pump?
> When I rode both my Mezzers on stock damper guts I found them harsh, admittedly higher air pressures too as 84Kg.
> I know the 12mm shim is quite involved to do but it really does make the small bump awesome.
> 
> Out riding again today and I think what I need to achieve is a more linear spring rate along with more mid compression damping to compensate for what will inevitably be a softer overall spring rate. Any ideas how to achieve this?


I have zero hand tingling or arm pump. I'm really sensitive to that and have experienced epic levels of discomfort on certain rims or midstroke spikes or some ENVE handlebars, but with the MP setup like I described there is no hand/forearm issues on the 20+ mph fast small rock washboard descents. I'm super critical of that.
I find stock Fox forks, even 2022 Stepcast 120, to have the usual midstroke spike or small bump issues until I installed a DSD Runt. Much better, and that's what led me to finally drink the Manitou kool-aid, ha, after testing some new Fox 36 Grip2.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

The stepcast is terrible. It's the bear minimum to get you through an XC race. The 34 is slightly better (but I liked the older versions without vvc better.) 

So far I have been pleased with my 38.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

cassieno said:


> The stepcast is terrible. It's the bear minimum to get you through an XC race. The 34 is slightly better (but I liked the older versions without vvc better.)
> 
> So far I have been pleased with my 38.


Agreed. The 2022 Stepcast SC34 Grip with DSD Runt is perfect for me as a xc/marathon fork.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Must be the combination of increased air pressure and damping that caused me/others harshness.

Assume your ‘1 LSC’ is from open, in which case you have compression near wide open, with low(er) air pressures to boot.

If you haven’t ridden the Fox 38, it’s a different beast to the 36, exceptional OOTB.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

DG370 said:


> Must be the combination of increased air pressure and damping that caused me/others harshness.
> 
> Assume your ‘1 LSC’ is from open, in which case you have compression near wide open, with low(er) air pressures to boot.
> 
> If you haven’t ridden the Fox 38, it’s a different beast to the 36, exceptional OOTB.


Yes, 1 from open. Today's leisurely ride will be the aforementioned post with LSC closed. Dougal wrote how it's buttery on attacking roots with the lower psi's which obviously I won't have any this time of year, but it's always fun to experiment.


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

westin said:


> Yes, 1 from open. Today's leisurely ride will be the aforementioned post with LSC closed. Dougal wrote how it's buttery on attacking roots with the lower psi's which obviously I won't have any this time of year, but it's always fun to experiment.


The LSC closed makes the HSC come into play sooner I believe, I can confirm the feeling on small bump like this is plush.

Im chasing that mid stroke/baby head size impacts… I want the fork to go through them not push me away/back at me so much.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Thinking about Selling my Mezzer. Has all the mods. Burnished bushings,14mm shim 214 airspring. PM me if interested.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Cerberus75 said:


> Thinking about Selling my Mezzer. Has all the mods. Burnished bushings,14mm shim 214 airspring. PM me if interested.


What will the replacement fork be?


----------



## jlbanta (Apr 5, 2011)

I have a question about the HSC shim mod. I have been happy with the fork with 0 HSC clicks, but maybe it could be even better?? I'm a light weight rider at 140lbs/64kg and have read that I'm best off removing one of the 17.5mm shims which will be roughly a 20% reduction in damping. I have shims to also try the 12mm shim option.

My question is, will I loose any front ride height if I modify the HSC? Currently, when I switch between 0 and 1 clicks (from open) I feel what seems to be a higher riding front end. Could I effectively re-gain HSC damping by adding a few clicks after the mod? Are there any other ride feel changes that you feel after doing the mod as well?


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

If you ride pro level hard/aggressive at your weight then prob best to leave it alone?

If your more like me (intermediate level) and ride very rough terrain then I think you would most definitely benefit from the 12mm, I think removing it all together is for lighter still riders.

What’s your LSC setting?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jlbanta said:


> I have a question about the HSC shim mod. I have been happy with the fork with 0 HSC clicks, but maybe it could be even better?? I'm a light weight rider at 140lbs/64kg and have read that I'm best off removing one of the 17.5mm shims which will be roughly a 20% reduction in damping. I have shims to also try the 12mm shim option.
> 
> My question is, will I loose any front ride height if I modify the HSC? Currently, when I switch between 0 and 1 clicks (from open) I feel what seems to be a higher riding front end. Could I effectively re-gain HSC damping by adding a few clicks after the mod? Are there any other ride feel changes that you feel after doing the mod as well?


At your weight take out one 17.5mm and see how you like it. You can run more LSC when HSC is in range.


----------



## jb0000 (Mar 30, 2021)

Are dull, ring-shaped marks on the stanchions indicative of bath oil not making it up the lowers? Because lately I've been noticing just that, coupled with reduced small bump performance around an hour into my rides.
I tried doing an early lowers service, bushings weren't tight and oil wasn't trapped anywhere. Didn't touch the seals (which looked dry) but changed the foam rings thinking they might have lost their oil retention ability or something. But nothing changed.
I do run 15ml of the 5w40 oil, is more oil necessary in this case?


----------



## jlbanta (Apr 5, 2011)

DG370 said:


> What’s your LSC setting?


I’m definitely not a pro, but have been riding for over 10 years. I guess I’m more on the aggressive side and the rougher the trail the happier I am. 

I like LSC between 1 and 3 clicks from fully closed with the pressures below. Dropping main or IRT pressures any further looses too much front ride height for my liking. LSC 1 click from closed seems to smooth out the front end as well.

31.5 psi main / 54 psi IRT
-1 LSC / -4 HSC / -10 Rebound from closed

This is a whole separate conversation, but I’m full fast on my rebound. It seems fast in the parking lot, but rides good. Does anyone know if the stock curve is linear or digressive? 
Maybe I should just wait for the new dougal mod he mentioned recently.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jlbanta said:


> I’m definitely not a pro, but have been riding for over 10 years. I guess I’m more on the aggressive side and the rougher the trail the happier I am.
> 
> I like LSC between 1 and 3 clicks from fully closed with the pressures below. Dropping main or IRT pressures any further looses too much front ride height for my liking. LSC 1 click from closed seems to smooth out the front end as well.
> 
> ...


Stock rebound is quite progressive, that's why people run it fast. Because even fast it's still got enough damping for those deep stroke returns.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Sounds like you either have damage to the inner wall that the main air seal rides on, or the valve in the air filler assembly is leaking.
> 
> You could try using straps to hold the fork compressed and see if you lose height after a day or two. That would suggest the valve, since you aren't constantly sweeping past a damaged surface.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Just to follow up. The uppers in the problem fork are brand new (creaking CSU) and I had the same issue with my old uppers. I swapped the Air Spring from my other Mezzer that only has about 5mm of travel suck in and did a couple longer rides this weekend and sure enough only 5mm of travel suck in vs. it increasing each ride. I'm going to get a new Air Spring for this fork. For my other Mezzer should I expect about 5mm of travel suck in after a ride? I'm thinking I need to 2 Air Springs now. How common is this?


----------



## DG370 (Jan 4, 2022)

Mine sits in about 2mm

Have you done the 214 seal mod?
I’m thinking it may be the 215 stiction/seal set taking hold when there isn’t enough pressure to overcome and move it that last little part.

You could also isolate the ‘fault’ by pulling the damper assy out and seeing if it still does it with purely the air spring assy.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

woodyak said:


> Just to follow up. The uppers in the problem fork are brand new (creaking CSU) and I had the same issue with my old uppers. I swapped the Air Spring from my other Mezzer that only has about 5mm of travel suck in and did a couple longer rides this weekend and sure enough only 5mm of travel suck in vs. it increasing each ride. I'm going to get a new Air Spring for this fork. For my other Mezzer should I expect about 5mm of travel suck in after a ride? I'm thinking I need to 2 Air Springs now. How common is this?


You shouldn't have any suck in. If you have you have an internal air leak. If you're running the 214 quad it could simply be not tight enough or the groove isn't clean. If can also be the tiniest fibre in the seal groove or the tiniest nick in the quad-ring.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

westin said:


> What will the replacement fork be?


Avy coil hybrid. But if @Dougal has fixed it getting overwhelmed in fast chunk I might keep it. I like the fork a lot it gets overwhelmed a little even with all the mods. I tried the 12mm an no 17.5 replacement shim and it looses support. So I believe it just doesn't flow fast enough with fast repeated hits.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Cerberus75 said:


> Avy coil hybrid. But if @Dougal has fixed it getting overwhelmed in fast chunk I might keep it. I like the fork a lot it gets overwhelmed a little even with all the mods. I tried the 12mm an no 17.5 replacement shim and it looses support. So I believe it just doesn't flow fast enough with fast repeated hits.


HSR choking?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

springs said:


> HSR choking?


Sure seems like it.


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> HSR choking?


I've got a solution, but it's putting together the package that is taking time.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

springs said:


> HSR choking?


Could be. LSR is open and almost too fast. I haven't touched the rebound shims yet.


----------



## TrailBlaza (Sep 2, 2008)

Question about the 214 quad ring - Due to its smaller size, is there any increased risk of damaging the inner wall as the ring ages? Anyone here thats run the ring over a season? Any issues with air loss?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

TrailBlaza said:


> Question about the 214 quad ring - Due to its smaller size, is there any increased risk of damaging the inner wall as the ring ages? Anyone here thats run the ring over a season? Any issues with air loss?


I tried with a 214 O-ring instead of a quad ring and got no air loss problems in 4 months.
Less friction,but the price to pay is that grease migrates to the negative air chamber easily.
Something like 2cc after 2 months of use.
Reducing the negative air chamber volume seems to have a bigger impact than a bit more friction from the seal.
I have already drilled lots of holes in one of the travel spacers reducing it's volume about 2cc and will give It a try on the next service.
I always added a few drops of supergliss to the slickoleum grease in the air chambers to make thinner which wasn't helpful either.
I quit doing that on the main chambers.
I do run the slickoleum-supergliss mix with a smaller size o-ring in the IRT chamber without problems since like 7 months.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Dougal said:


> You shouldn't have any suck in. If you have you have an internal air leak. If you're running the 214 quad it could simply be not tight enough or the groove isn't clean. If can also be the tiniest fibre in the seal groove or the tiniest nick in the quad-ring.


Thanks for the response. This one has the stock 215 quad, but it's older. I'll try a brand new 214 and make sure that it's super clean. I do have a new OEM seal kit coming in, but it's coming from Germany and it hasn't left there in like a month. Never buying anything from Germany again.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

DG370 said:


> Mine sits in about 2mm
> 
> Have you done the 214 seal mod?
> I’m thinking it may be the 215 stiction/seal set taking hold when there isn’t enough pressure to overcome and move it that last little part.
> ...


This one has an older 215 in there. Gonna try a new 214 today. Already bled the damper so it's not that.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I don't think so vs any other quad ring if you didn't have enough oil in the fork to lubricate.

I have had mine in for a season and no changes in air pressure from the 215 OEM vs 214.

If you have the screws on the back of the legs it is really easy to drop in 5cc of oil every 25 hours - M5 x .8 like McMaster-Carr - which helps keep things moving along until you hit the lower service interval.

I tend to replace every 100 hours as a precaution but I think the combo of proper lubrication and not running them for ages is a good hedge bet there.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

silentG said:


> I don't think so vs any other quad ring if you didn't have enough oil in the fork to lubricate.
> 
> I have had mine in for a season and no changes in air pressure from the 215 OEM vs 214.
> 
> ...


If that's aimed at me, I'm having this issue immediately after putting the fork back together with 21cc added into each leg, so that's not the issue.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Not my fork. No affiliation. Just passing on a great price on a barely used 2021 MP with 7 inch (180mm) steerer: https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/3472665/


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

woodyak said:


> If that's aimed at me, I'm having this issue immediately after putting the fork back together with 21cc added into each leg, so that's not the issue.


Was targeted at the question that @TrailBlaza asked about the 214.


----------



## bae984 (May 9, 2007)

Appreciate all the info here, Dougal et al. I've got a Mezzer Expert that I recently replaced the CSU on (scratched the stantions badly) and that went well. I used the supergliss and motul damper fluid. I also dropped in an IRT in place of the spacers and pushed travel to 170mm. One quirk: the Expert comes with different OEM fork seals and they are a PITA to get out...metal reinforced. I had to use a little heat gun love and some moto tire levers. The replacements Hayes sells are apparently what comes standard on the Pro.

This fork is interesting. It's WAY overkill on the 'enduro' hardtail it's on, so I'm going for a very linear spring rate. I could see making a lot more use of it on a big FS bike where you could charge the chunder more. The fork feels sort of stiff and 'sticky' in a parking lot test, but when set up right it really feels good at speed. I know the expert lacks the HBO and advanced damper, which makes me curious about the damping differences. I'm likely building a big trail/enduro bike for next year and think I'll give the pro a try for that bike.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

It should not feel stiff and sticky in the parking lot. My fork is incredibly free and responds to the tiniest bar inputs. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## bae984 (May 9, 2007)

CCS86 said:


> It should not feel stiff and sticky in the parking lot. My fork is incredibly free and responds to the tiniest bar inputs.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


It seems to have more breakaway force required to get moving compared to my Pike. 'Sticky' is probably not the right word, but it gives the impression it wouldn't be very sensitive, though at speed it seems to work well. Maybe my bushings are tighter? I see references to bushing burnishing, so maybe that's a thing here. Feel didn't really change before and after rebuild.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

My Pike was hot garbage, even after burnishing and "low friction" seals. Terrible fork.

Your Mezzer may have tight bushings. Most do not.

Proper lubrication of the bushings, foam rings, air spring and IRT are crucial. Swapping to the 214 quad ring is icing on the cake. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Cerberus75 said:


> Avy coil hybrid. But if @Dougal has fixed it getting overwhelmed in fast chunk I might keep it. I like the fork a lot it gets overwhelmed a little even with all the mods. I tried the 12mm an no 17.5 replacement shim and it looses support. So I believe it just doesn't flow fast enough with fast repeated hits.


Fast chunk and the stock Main/IRT ratio at 160mm travel was a hopeless combination for me. Unless you overinflate IRT, the first medium sized sharp impact is just enough to engage the IRT, which then causes overshoot as IRT stiction is overcome, leaving the fork too deep in travel to properly respond to the next hit. It’s not only a rebound curve issue, most here run rebound open or nearly open, probably to deal with these type of scenarios, which then makes the fork pogo stick fast at sag and not composed. I went to a more linear rebound stack which improved overall performance, but the primary fix was reducing IRT volume.

IRT is on one hand a great tuning option, but the downside is that you now have twice the air seal stiction compared to a single positive chamber air fork. And that stiction is the #1 argument for running coil over air. If riding trails without repeated chunk at speed the stock main/IRT ratio will feel bottomless and couch-like on those medium to large single hits, because excessive travel is being used as IRT opens without sufficient psi support to prevent overshoot.

IRT volume modification is probably the easiest of all performance enhancements.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> Fast chunk and the stock Main/IRT ratio at 160mm travel was a hopeless combination for me. Unless you overinflate IRT, the first medium sized sharp impact is just enough to engage the IRT, which then causes overshoot as IRT stiction is overcome, leaving the fork too deep in travel to properly respond to the next hit. It’s not only a rebound curve issue, most here run rebound open or nearly open, probably to deal with these type of scenarios, which then makes the fork pogo stick fast at sag and not composed. I went to a more linear rebound stack which improved overall performance, but the primary fix was reducing IRT volume.
> 
> IRT is on one hand a great tuning option, but the downside is that you now have twice the air seal stiction compared to a single positive chamber air fork. And that stiction is the #1 argument for running coil over air. If riding trails without repeated chunk at speed the stock main/IRT ratio will feel bottomless and couch-like on those medium to large single hits, because excessive travel is being used as IRT opens without sufficient psi support to prevent overshoot.
> 
> IRT volume modification is probably the easiest of all performance enhancements.




You absolutely do not have "twice the air seal stiction/friction".

The IRT seal is not directly connected to the axle. Any breakaway friction on the IRT piston will just create a small knee in the air-spring curve. This is nothing like the effect of air seal friction.

You are speculating that the IRT has high breakaway friction. I haven't observed any at very slow shaft speeds (leaving a pump connected to the IRT while compressing the fork).

What evidence do you have that this is the case?


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

CCS86 said:


> What evidence do you have that this is the case?


Physics.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> Physics.


I'm familiar with them.

It sounds like you don't grasp the concept of "evidence" though. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nmxtrdr said:


> Fast chunk and the stock Main/IRT ratio at 160mm travel was a hopeless combination for me. Unless you overinflate IRT, the first medium sized sharp impact is just enough to engage the IRT, which then causes overshoot as IRT stiction is overcome, leaving the fork too deep in travel to properly respond to the next hit. It’s not only a rebound curve issue, most here run rebound open or nearly open, probably to deal with these type of scenarios, which then makes the fork pogo stick fast at sag and not composed. I went to a more linear rebound stack which improved overall performance, but the primary fix was reducing IRT volume.
> 
> IRT is on one hand a great tuning option, but the downside is that you now have twice the air seal stiction compared to a single positive chamber air fork. And that stiction is the #1 argument for running coil over air. If riding trails without repeated chunk at speed the stock main/IRT ratio will feel bottomless and couch-like on those medium to large single hits, because excessive travel is being used as IRT opens without sufficient psi support to prevent overshoot.
> 
> IRT volume modification is probably the easiest of all performance enhancements.


That's not how IRT works. It activates later in the stroke and doesn't add stiction. I think you're confusing some other effect.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

But, "physics"



Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

nmxtrdr said:


> Fast chunk and the stock Main/IRT ratio at 160mm travel was a hopeless combination for me. Unless you overinflate IRT, the first medium sized sharp impact is just enough to engage the IRT, which then causes overshoot as IRT stiction is overcome, leaving the fork too deep in travel to properly respond to the next hit. It’s not only a rebound curve issue, most here run rebound open or nearly open, probably to deal with these type of scenarios, which then makes the fork pogo stick fast at sag and not composed. I went to a more linear rebound stack which improved overall performance, but the primary fix was reducing IRT volume.
> 
> IRT is on one hand a great tuning option, but the downside is that you now have twice the air seal stiction compared to a single positive chamber air fork. And that stiction is the #1 argument for running coil over air. If riding trails without repeated chunk at speed the stock main/IRT ratio will feel bottomless and couch-like on those medium to large single hits, because excessive travel is being used as IRT opens without sufficient psi support to prevent overshoot.
> 
> IRT volume modification is probably the easiest of all performance enhancements.


I'm guessing the main/IRT is optimised at 180mm travel so makes sense to reduce the IRT slightly at lower travel. How much did you reduce it by?

Rebound is the issue on the fork....c'mon Dougal


----------



## N0RTHERNR0GUE (May 14, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> My Pike was hot garbage, even after burnishing and "low friction" seals. Terrible fork.
> 
> Your Mezzer may have tight bushings. Most do not.
> 
> ...


Been seeing people talk about the 214 quad ring, can't get the linked one at the start of this thread being in asia, what do I check to know it fits? Just get any 214 quad ring?


----------



## ozzcarinho (2 mo ago)

woodyak said:


> Thanks for the response. This one has the stock 215 quad, but it's older. I'll try a brand new 214 and make sure that it's super clean. I do have a new OEM seal kit coming in, but it's coming from Germany and it hasn't left there in like a month. Never buying anything from Germany again.


@Dougal 
New Mezzer owner here (from Germany) and i am having a hard time finding the right quad ring. Can you tell me where did you bought them in Germany? Thanks


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

ozzcarinho said:


> @Dougal
> New Mezzer owner here (from Germany) and i am having a hard time finding the right quad ring. Can you tell me where did you bought them in Germany? Thanks


Ich hab die von 





IR Dichtungstechnik - IR Dichtungstechnik







www.ir-dichtungstechnik.de




bestellt


----------



## ozzcarinho (2 mo ago)

reo-fahrer said:


> Ich hab die von
> 
> 
> 
> ...


kannst du mir einen empfehlen? würde mich sonst durchtesten. Danke für den Link, bei den PReisen kann man ja nicht viel falsch machen.


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

ozzcarinho said:


> kannst du mir einen empfehlen? würde mich sonst durchtesten. Danke für den Link, bei den PReisen kann man ja nicht viel falsch machen.


that "214" is the exact type of an x-ring size:








X-Ring 24,99 x 3,53 mm BS214 NBR 70 +/- 5 Shore A schwarz/black







www.ir-dichtungstechnik.de





or viton








X-Ring 24,99 x 3,53 mm BS214 Viton® 75 +/- 5 Shore A schwarz/black







www.ir-dichtungstechnik.de


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

nmxtrdr said:


> IRT volume modification is probably the easiest of all performance enhancements.


Would this be like inserting the "wrong sized" DSD Runt in a Fox or RS? A 120mm Runt in a 140 fork or vice versa with different pistons?

From runt — diaz suspension design

*Q: Will The RUNT work in any fork?
A: The RUNT is fork and travel length specific. The RUNT was designed to take up the maximum air volume in your fork leg based on the amount of travel. The RUNT body is designed to switch between two different travel lengths based on the piston that is used. If you want to change the travel in your fork, please send us an email to discuss options. Compatibility chart coming soon. Do not use a RUNT designed for a different travel length as this could cause serious damage or injury.*


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

nmxtrdr said:


> Fast chunk and the stock Main/IRT ratio at 160mm travel was a hopeless combination for me. Unless you overinflate IRT, the first medium sized sharp impact is just enough to engage the IRT, which then causes overshoot as IRT stiction is overcome, leaving the fork too deep in travel to properly respond to the next hit. It’s not only a rebound curve issue, most here run rebound open or nearly open, probably to deal with these type of scenarios, which then makes the fork pogo stick fast at sag and not composed. I went to a more linear rebound stack which improved overall performance, but the primary fix was reducing IRT volume.
> 
> IRT is on one hand a great tuning option, but the downside is that you now have twice the air seal stiction compared to a single positive chamber air fork. And that stiction is the #1 argument for running coil over air. If riding trails without repeated chunk at speed the stock main/IRT ratio will feel bottomless and couch-like on those medium to large single hits, because excessive travel is being used as IRT opens without sufficient psi support to prevent overshoot.
> 
> IRT volume modification is probably the easiest of all performance enhancements.


I have the air spring pretty dialed to my rear, linear to progressive. The only thing I haven't modded is the rebound stack. I'm not getting excessive stiction. It's choking in the damper.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

springs said:


> I'm guessing the main/IRT is optimised at 180mm travel so makes sense to reduce the IRT slightly at lower travel. How much did you reduce it by?


At 160mm adding 1/2” of spacers below the IRT piston gave good results for my terrain.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

nmxtrdr said:


> At 160mm adding 1/2” of spacers below the IRT piston gave good results for my terrain.


How did you go about this?


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

westin said:


> Would this be like inserting the "wrong sized" DSD Runt in a Fox or RS? A 120mm Runt in a 140 fork or vice versa with different pistons?
> 
> From runt — diaz suspension design
> 
> ...


I have no firsthand experience with the Runt. Altering the size of the IRT in relation to the Main chamber will change the shape of the spring curve, and can mitigate the negative effects of the IRT stiction. 

As the IRT volume is reduced full travel will be more difficult to use. Small price for the massive increase in mid-stroke performance over fast chunk.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

westin said:


> How did you go about this?


Small plastic spacers from hardware store. IRT shaft is 10mm. These spacers were 3/8” Inside Diameter so I bored them lightly with a dremel to 10mm ID.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Cerberus75 said:


> I have the air spring pretty dialed to my rear, linear to progressive. The only thing I haven't modded is the rebound stack. I'm not getting excessive stiction. It's choking in the damper.


Changing the rebound stack was another piece of the puzzle for me.

The IRT mod will help that lethargic deep travel rebound by making the spring curve more progressive later in stroke.


----------



## spoodzilla (Jan 17, 2012)

New owner, forks are on a vitus sommet 2020, 170mm. Took it for a spin without changing the setup from the previous owner who is a similar build. Far too stiff whatever he had the pressures and dampers set at, took it down a steep rooty run with rocks and small drops and barely made a dent in 50% of the travel. I'm 94kg with gear on. I've had a read of the setups other people have and Manitou's recommendations, wondering if someone can give me a starting point? 

For the top dampers, is closed turned full to the left, anti clockwise? Then you open the big ring a few clicks, then the smaller ring? Botton damper is fully set to minus closed and you click out?

Lastly, would like to check the oil in the lowers and grease the air pistons. Is there a UK supplier/ equivelent I can buy to 5wt oil? Cant get the stuff on the links its dearer than gold!. Will sram butter do the job for greasing up? 

Sorry for all the newb questions, coming from a Bomber Z2 which was set and forget!


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

nmxtrdr said:


> Physics.


Cool, can we see your calculations?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

spoodzilla said:


> New owner, forks are on a vitus sommet 2020, 170mm. Took it for a spin without changing the setup from the previous owner who is a similar build. Far too stiff whatever he had the pressures and dampers set at, took it down a steep rooty run with rocks and small drops and barely made a dent in 50% of the travel. I'm 94kg with gear on. I've had a read of the setups other people have and Manitou's recommendations, wondering if someone can give me a starting point?
> 
> For the top dampers, is closed turned full to the left, anti clockwise? Then you open the big ring a few clicks, then the smaller ring? Botton damper is fully set to minus closed and you click out?
> 
> ...


Start here mate



https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360042329633-Mezzer-Pro-Set-up-Guide


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Not much info on the Expert damper/rebound assembly. Service manual is basically pump and dump, fill, pump and top off. Pulled the lower rebound side, no mention in documents about cleaning/removing or inspecting the lower rebound side of the assembly but, I wanted to see it.

Anyways, just a warning if anyone decides to do the same. When I unthreaded/removed the rebound side of the assembly, the top section unthreaded and remained inside the steer assy.
I did not notice at the time, reassembled and went for a ride, it was horrible.

I’m at work so can’t look at it now but any advice on reassembly? Was thinking push component down and out with a plastic curtain rod and reinstall on shaft? Assuming it was just finger tight from factory and unthreaded when I unthread the rebound side. Any clue on torque? 2.3- 2.8 Nm? Assume open end wrench on the flat? (see pic)


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Turd said:


> Not much info on the Expert damper/rebound assembly. Service manual is basically pump and dump, fill, pump and top off. Pulled the lower rebound side, no mention in documents about cleaning/removing or inspecting the lower rebound side of the assembly but, I wanted to see it.
> 
> Anyways, just a warning if anyone decides to do the same. When I unthreaded/removed the rebound side of the assembly, the top section unthreaded and remained inside the steer assy.
> I did not notice at the time, reassembled and went for a ride, it was horrible.
> ...


Yes push it out the bottom, reassemble and you're good. Snug by hand is good torque. From the factory that would have gone in dry and filled from the top so the o-ring would have a good grip on the inside of the stanchion and that's what unscrewed the head. It'll be well lubed going back in as there's oil everywhere now.


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Yes push it out the bottom, reassemble and you're good. Snug by hand is good torque. From the factory that would have gone in dry and filled from the top so the o-ring would have a good grip on the inside of the stanchion and that's what unscrewed the head. It'll be well lubed going back in as there's oil everywhere now.


Thanks Dougal, any reason to ever remove and clean again? Or is it more of a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Turd said:


> Thanks Dougal, any reason to ever remove and clean again? Or is it more of a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"


You'll be replacing the lower shaft seal sometime around 1-2 years. Until then it can stay there.


----------



## TrailBlaza (Sep 2, 2008)

Is there any difference between the Maxima 5w 85-150 damper oil (85-0023) and the one that sells 50% cheaper (59901-5)? They both appear to have a nearly identical label


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

TrailBlaza said:


> Is there any difference between the Maxima 5w 85-150 damper oil (85-0023) and the one that sells 50% cheaper (59901-5)? They both appear to have a nearly identical label


I didn't know there were two. I have a bottle of the 59901-05. The 5wt that Manitou use from the factory is ever so slightly different in colour (more green) but measures the same.
You could buy both and let us know?


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

nmxtrdr said:


> Changing the rebound stack was another piece of the puzzle for me.
> 
> The IRT mod will help that lethargic deep travel rebound by making the spring curve more progressive later in stroke.


What did you do to the rebound shim stack?


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Cerberus75 said:


> What did you do to the rebound shim stack?


Configured it to be more linear. Also stiffer so I could run it with less preload.


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

nmxtrdr said:


> Configured it to be more linear. Also stiffer so I could run it with less preload.


with a stock configuration of three shims altogether as crossover stack and a iirc flat piston, that post doesn't make that much sense


----------



## TrailBlaza (Sep 2, 2008)

I really messed up and somehow stripped a small portion of the threads at the top of the damper while reinstalling with the cassette tool. I thought I had it perfectly aligned and barely applied any torque while threading by hand. I've reinstalled dampers like this probably 10 times and never had this happen. Am I completely screwed? When tightening by hand I can see it wobbling back and is tightens


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Get a 60 degree V file and use it to repair the threads.


----------



## TrailBlaza (Sep 2, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Get a 60 degree V file and use it to repair the threads.


Thank you, Dougal. I've been trying to repair the threads with an exacto blade but a v file is probably a better choice.

Update - I filed down the last thread on the damper and was able to properly thread in. Crisis averted


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

TrailBlaza said:


> I really messed up and somehow stripped a small portion of the threads at the top of the damper while reinstalling with the cassette tool. I thought I had it perfectly aligned and barely applied any torque while threading by hand. I've reinstalled dampers like this probably 10 times and never had this happen. Am I completely screwed? When tightening by hand I can see it wobbling back and is tightens
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same happened to me,luckily I managed to fix it.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

So from what I've gathered... air spring replacement seals are:

Air Piston: 215 quad ring (undersized hack 214)
Air Shaft: 013 quad ring
IRT Piston: 122 o-ring
IRT Shaft: -110 oring

If I've gotten any of these wrong please feel free to correct me.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Awesome. Thinking of trying Viton seals as Intend is using for lower friction.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> So from what I've gathered... air spring replacement seals are:
> 
> Air Piston: 215 quad ring (undersized hack 214)
> Air Shaft: 013 quad ring
> ...


Air Shaft is also a -110.


----------



## oZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (Aug 9, 2020)

Hello

I want to buy Mezzer pro from CRC or Wiggle.
Does anyone know about version of this fork ?


----------



## mooha (Apr 14, 2021)

oZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz said:


> Hello
> 
> I want to buy Mezzer pro from CRC or Wiggle.
> Does anyone know about version of this fork ?


Hi
Got one few days ago, 27.5, CRC. Came in 5 days, not even a call from customs. Seems to be latest version, made january or feb, cant recall exactly, 2022 for sure.
Cheers


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mooha said:


> Hi
> Got one few days ago, 27.5, CRC. Came in 5 days, not even a call from customs. Seems to be latest version, made january or feb, cant recall exactly, 2022 for sure.
> Cheers


Ya that's consistent with the 29 version I picked up several months back


----------



## oZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (Aug 9, 2020)

Great News. Thanks


----------



## N0RTHERNR0GUE (May 14, 2020)

oZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz said:


> Hello
> 
> I want to buy Mezzer pro from CRC or Wiggle.
> Does anyone know about version of this fork ?


Also ordered a CRC Mezzer pro, was a 2022 model, 27.5, also around a few months old 2022 MFG date, can't remember the month, had it for 3 months now and it has been working fine so far.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Just a heads-up about LSC. It's got about 10 clicks from closed and if you force it past that (expensive hidden clicks) you have to strip the compression assembly to put the locating peg back in the right place.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Something is wrong with my mezzer.

I bought the mezzer because my previous Fox 36 got very sticky.
When loading your weight slowly on the handlebars you could do A LOT of force and It wouldn't move.
You could hear and feel the stiction through the handlebars once It started moving.
After servicing the lowers It was pretty smooth for about 7 hours,then It became sticky again.
It felt like tight bushings,but this issue was noticeable after about 18 months of use.
The black anodizing started to wear out too,maybe due to some Racing Bros low friction seals?
I service my lowers every 2 months.

Same thing is happening now on my mezzer after about 13 months of use too.
I burnished the bushings 2 months ago,It shouldn't be tight bushings I think.
The upper bushings took very little effort to get the 37,07mm head through,but the lower bushings were SUPER tight.
Before burnishing the fork was already pretty smooth,I didn't really felt an improvement after burnishing the bushings.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mikel Knight said:


> Something is wrong with my mezzer.
> 
> I bought the mezzer because my previous Fox 36 got very sticky.
> When loading your weight slowly on the handlebars you could do A LOT of force and It wouldn't move.
> ...


Sounds like your problem isn't the bushings. Check if the air-seals are dry. What oil are you using and how often do you change it?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Dougal said:


> Sounds like your problem isn't the bushings. Check if the air-seals are dry. What oil are you using and how often do you change it?


Air seals are new,and well lubed.
I use supergliss 100k,actual temperature is about 19° celsius and I service my lowers every 2 months.
Last service was a month ago.
Had a ride today and It feels terrible.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mikel Knight said:


> Air seals are new,and well lubed.
> I use supergliss 100k,actual temperature is about 19° celsius and I service my lowers every 2 months.
> Last service was a month ago.
> Had a ride today and It feels terrible.


Take the lowers off and see how they go one side at a time in the workshop.

There are only so many sliding things in a fork. What seals are you using?

For comparison I last serviced my Mezzer Pro in March. I ran Supergliss 68K (because winter) and it's still sliding great. I had the damper out yesterday but haven't touched bath oils or seals.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Dougal said:


> Take the lowers off and see how they go one side at a time in the workshop.
> 
> There are only so many sliding things in a fork. What seals are you using?
> 
> For comparison I last serviced my Mezzer Pro in March. I ran Supergliss 68K (because winter) and it's still sliding great. I had the damper out yesterday but haven't touched bath oils or seals.


It's not because of any seal.
I have downsized main and IRT seals and skf Green wipers.
Without air in the fork I can load slowly 80kg on the handlebar and don't get bottom out because of the friction.
There this this like wooden knocking noise and you can really feel the friction through the handlebars.

It depends on how you load the weight.
If I load one side of the handlebar more It becomes worse.
When compressing the fork vertically it's less noticeable.
It becomes really bad on the second half of the travel.

It has to be bushing related or the chassis is bent.
Could the bushings be missaligned?
How do I check this?


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

Mikel Knight said:


> It's not because of any seal.
> I have downsized main and IRT seals and skf Green wipers.
> Without air in the fork I can load slowly 80kg on the handlebar and don't get bottom out because of the friction.
> There this this like wooden knocking noise and you can really feel the friction through the handlebars.
> ...


Did you try to insert only one leg at the time and see which one is affected ?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

slashIE said:


> Did you try to insert only one leg at the time and see which one is affected ?



Yes,I tried both legs on the air side stanction and they slide in with almost no effort.

I just did a lower leg service with motorex 15wt and It feels better for now.
It think it will last for a couple of hours.
I will contact bike24 to get the fork checked by Manitou.


Here is a clip before the service.
You can see the fork sticking,and at about the middle of the clip it locks and you can hear the knocking.









26 de noviembre de 2022







youtube.com


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mikel Knight said:


> Yes,I tried both legs on the air side stanction and they slide in with almost no effort.
> 
> I just did a lower leg service with motorex 15wt and It feels better for now.
> It think it will last for a couple of hours.
> ...


How close does your hub measure to 110mm? Does it get better or worse without the wheel in?


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

I set my MP 160mm up like your Mike Kazimer suggestion a few years back. I'm 165 ready to ride.
WOW!!!!!!


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Dougal said:


> How close does your hub measure to 110mm? Does it get better or worse without the wheel in?


I don't know how to measure precisely my hub width,and I don't wan't to push the fork hard without the wheel in place.
It shouldn't be the hub,fork has been doing great for a year with the same hub.
I just hope that I get It fixed by Manitou.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Mikel Knight said:


> I don't know how to measure precisely my hub width,and I don't wan't to push the fork hard without the wheel in place.
> It shouldn't be the hub,fork has been doing great for a year with the same hub.
> I just hope that I get It fixed by Manitou.


If the fork was great before and is not now, it is not the bushings, they get looser, not tighter. Something has become damaged, bent airshaft, damaged seal dragging, or some other friction point.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Have you changes pressure recently? If unscrewing the pump too slowly you can looses negative airspring pressure. I did that once and it felt very wooden. Now halfway from screwing off pump I'll add another pump to make sure it dosnt happen again.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Cary said:


> If the fork was great before and is not now, it is not the bushings, they get looser, not tighter. Something has become damaged, bent airshaft, damaged seal dragging, or some other friction point.


I know,but I'm certain that it's not because of any of those you mentioned.
I heard about bushing alignment to be crucial,maybe they are not well aligned anymore,or something is wrong with the CSU (that creaks) or the lowers.
When loading the handlebar perpendicularly to the fork axle it feels almost ok,but It becomes really bad when loading the handlebar perpendicularly to the ground.
My old Fox 36 has exactly the same problem.
While servicing the lowers I took a look at the bushings and didn't notice anything out of place.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

Mikel Knight said:


> I know,but I'm certain that it's not because of any of those you mentioned.
> I heard about bushing alignment to be crucial,maybe they are not well aligned anymore,or something is wrong with the CSU (that creaks) or the lowers.
> When loading the handlebar perpendicularly to the fork axle it feels almost ok,but It becomes really bad when loading the handlebar perpendicularly to the ground.
> My old Fox 36 has exactly the same problem.
> While servicing the lowers I took a look at the bushings and didn't notice anything out of place.


This is probably a long shot, but if the CSU is creaking, is it possible that it’s coming from one (or both) of the stanchions that has started to walk it’s way out of the CSU? This could cause misalignment like you’re seeing but would be almost impossible to detect when sliding each leg into the lowers individually.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

kapolczer said:


> This is probably a long shot, but if the CSU is creaking, is it possible that it’s coming from one (or both) of the stanchions that has started to walk it’s way out of the CSU? This could cause misalignment like you’re seeing but would be almost impossible to detect when sliding each leg into the lowers individually.


It could be something like that,my Fox 36 creaks too.
Funny thing is that on both forks after doing a lower leg service they become relatively smooth for few hours of use.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

Mikel Knight said:


> It could be something like that,my Fox 36 creaks too.
> Funny thing is that on both forks after doing a lower leg service they become relatively smooth for few hours of use.


I think that’s quite common with misalignment or tight bushings, you’re temporary masking the issue by lubricating the sliding surfaces. I know Dougal has mentioned this a few times early on in the thread for people who had tight bushings. They would service their fork, it would feel great, then quickly degrade and get sticky again. I also think a lot of of the CSU creaking gets blamed on the steerer/csu interface (which probably is the majority of it, I have no idea) but movement/creaking at the stanchion/csu interface is also a factor and would likely be more problematic for the performance of the fork.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Air Shaft is also a -110.


What are the dimensions of the -110? Trying to google anything with a minus in front of a term means it results omit that term...
and 122 is a 1 1/8"ID 1 5/16"OD and 3/32" thickness?

I am going to try some marginal gaining and use FKM (Viton) o-rings as Intend claims those have better friction properties than NBR.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

hssp said:


> What are the dimensions of the -110? Trying to google anything with a minus in front of a term means it results omit that term...
> and 122 is a 1 1/8"ID 1 5/16"OD and 3/32" thickness?
> 
> I am going to try some marginal gaining and use FKM (Viton) o-rings as Intend claims those have better friction properties than NBR.



Try searching them as "bs122"or "as122".
I used a downsized 121 seal on the IRT and It works perfectly fine after 7 months.
I bought mine from IR Dichtungstechnik - IR Dichtungstechnik

As far as I know the lowest friction material for seals is ptfe,but they are very hard to find.

Anyone knows the size of the SAG o-ring?


----------



## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

I heard a rumor there's a really good Ohlins RFX review buried in this thread anywhere, short of browsing through 90 pages....anyone know how to point me to it?


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)




----------



## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

Interesting my seach box doesnt offer those drop downs. Maybe its browser specific


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Manitou Mezzer: Owners Thread [Setup & Tech]


They go for around 20-30$ these days, still a good enough pump, the issue though is the mentioned hose, it's not avaible as a spare item and obviously can burst, sure the pump is not very expensive, but it just feels wasteful. I bought a SKS suspension pump to replace my Giyo for that reason...




www.mtbr.com


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Mikel Knight said:


> Try searching them as "bs122"or "as122".
> I used a downsized 121 seal on the IRT and It works perfectly fine after 7 months.
> I bought mine from IR Dichtungstechnik - IR Dichtungstechnik
> 
> ...


Sag o-ring size is not critical. I got me some colored ones from SagNation i Germany


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

@CCS86 Would it be possible to add all the O-ring sizes as mentioned recently to the first post?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

My Mezzer Pro is only a year old, was acting really odd, damping was inconsistent, either all orbnothing AND it changed from all or nothing without any adjustments!

Sent it the suspension syndicate, they opened it up and they said the “LSC knob popped off spewing oil”, there was a “spring bent” and a “retention pin was missing”, basically they said it was a mess and asked me if it had been leaking oil.

I ain’t had the thing open since I got it, so they’re sending it in for a warranty. It’s been 13mo, hopefully Manitou treats me right, I’m kind of a Manitou fanboi ….

In the meantime I got a Formula Selva Coil that works great!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Sanchofula said:


> My Mezzer Pro is only a year old, was acting really odd, damping was inconsistent, either all orbnothing AND it changed from all or nothing without any adjustments!
> 
> Sent it the suspension syndicate, they opened it up and they said the “LSC knob popped off spewing oil”, there was a “spring bent” and a “retention pin was missing”, basically they said it was a mess and asked me if it had been leaking oil.
> 
> ...


If the LSC knob is forced open it pushes the retaining pin out and the damper goes soft. You've gotta strip the top end of the damper to fix it.

I found this about two weeks ago when some dyno testing was driving me nuts. The damper was behaving normally on the first test then after closing and opening the LSC it went really soft.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

No activity in this thread for a whole week?? Everyone must be snowed in and/or patiently waiting for @Dougal to release his piston/shim upgrade


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

kapolczer said:


> No activity in this thread for a whole week?? Everyone must be snowed in and/or patiently waiting for @Dougal to release his piston/shim upgrade


We have what, 2 or 3 more days to go?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kapolczer said:


> No activity in this thread for a whole week?? Everyone must be snowed in and/or patiently waiting for @Dougal to release his piston/shim upgrade





006_007 said:


> We have what, 2 or 3 more days to go?


Info here: Shockcraft Pick & Mix Tuning - Mezzer Pro Edition

It should make a few people very happy.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

JK-47 said:


> @CCS86 Would it be possible to add all the O-ring sizes as mentioned recently to the first post?



Added to the replacement parts section.

Maybe someone can double check that it is correct.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Hello fellow shim swappers...I have really been enjoying my mezzer and tinkering with it since late 2020. I have one of the older mezzers that had a heavy compression tune, and no bleed ports on the lower casting.

Over the years I have done the following mods:

Burnished bushings
complete service on damper and air spring with all new orings and seals
214 air piston o ring
flattened piston face on rebound side
Compression stack: 20, 17.5, 14
Rebound stack: 12 x 6 x 0.1, 9 x 6 x 0.1, 12 x 6 x 0.1

Rider:
mediocre rider, have been riding a long time but I am not fast or go big, 10-15 foot doubles max, 5-6ft drops max, always to transitions, 170 lbs (77kg) ready to ride
Fork settings: 27.5, 170mm, 50 psi main, 60 psi irt, HSC fully open, LSC, 3 clicks out, rebound 10 clicks out
Trails: lots of roots and rocks on US east coast single track, steep rocky slippery chutes, xc trails to legit DH trails all in one ride, ocasionnaly hit the bike park but pretty rare.

I came from having a 150mm pike with an avalanche damper in it that was amazing, could soak up anything but it was absolutely stuck to the ground, had to work if you wanted to get it off the ground without a lip, but it was amazing. The mezzer can do this at my current settings and it has pop to boost off the tiniest feature. The one thing that still eludes me is that it has a strange sensation that I think I can attribute to rebound. It's like it's slow at times and fast at times, I can't quite understand or describe it. If I add any rebound it packs up and can't keep up with my shock. If I run it open it feels a bit fast until all of a sudden it acts like it packed up but I know it didn't because it's still sitting high in the travel.

My goal is to get it set up as best I can on the stock piston before I put in the high flow piston I already have on order from Shockcraft. Has anyone else experienced this sensation? Does anyone have any suggestions on a setting or stack on the rebound side?

edit: after doing more riding on our steepest and roughest trails I realize that I am still not where I was with the avalanche modified pike in terms of control and comfort. I feel like it’s close but not quite there.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

jmvar said:


> Hello fellow shim swappers...I have really been enjoying my mezzer and tinkering with it since late 2020. I have one of the older mezzers that had a heavy compression tune, and no bleed ports on the lower casting.
> 
> Over the years I have done the following mods:
> 
> ...


This is what could not be tuned out with only shims and needs a modified piston to correct. The imbalance between LSR and HSR was always the achilles heel of the standard tune. Dougal and NSR racing are the only ones that I know of that have different pistons addressing this. Not sure what Rulezman does apart from polishing and sizing as nobody has stripped one of his dampers publicly as yet.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jmvar said:


> Hello fellow shim swappers...I have really been enjoying my mezzer and tinkering with it since late 2020. I have one of the older mezzers that had a heavy compression tune, and no bleed ports on the lower casting.
> 
> Over the years I have done the following mods:
> 
> ...


Have you ordered the high flow piston or the Pick & Mix? We had a USA high flow piston order last week which we had to sit on until we'd released P&M. We've emailled that customer now telling them what's happening.
The old high flow pistons are on hold. We're running all of our spare pistons into the Pick & Mix tuning kits where the modified pistons (High Flow V2) and completely new shim stacks fix the rebound weirdness.

In the future I'll have rebound piston kits which are basically the lower half of the Pick & Mix kits available. Because these will cover a huge range of Manitou forks (from ~2013 Minute Pro to current Dorado Pro). But that won't happen until our own pistons are out of production and we have a bulk supply.

For your air-spring. You won't get any benefit from IRT with the pressures that close. 1.5x is the point you'll start to notice.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Have you ordered the high flow piston or the Pick & Mix? We had a USA high flow piston order last week which we had to sit on until we'd released P&M. We've emailled that customer now telling them what's happening.
> The old high flow pistons are on hold. We're running all of our spare pistons into the Pick & Mix tuning kits where the modified pistons (High Flow V2) and completely new shim stacks fix the rebound weirdness.
> 
> In the future I'll have rebound piston kits which are basically the lower half of the Pick & Mix kits available. Because these will cover a huge range of Manitou forks (from ~2013 Minute Pro to current Dorado Pro). But that won't happen until our own pistons are out of production and we have a bulk supply.
> ...


PM sent on the piston and order.

I will bump the pressure up in the IRT. Interesting to see that this is a flow issue, I have been wrestling with trying to understand this feeling and I think I finally started to get an idea of what was going on when I isolated it to fast, steep, rocky sections of trail.


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Question for the Mezzer experts here:

How does the negative chamber pressurize?

With the air shaft apart from the fork, I can see how the silver poppet valve (with the small o-ring seal that seals to the air shaft piston head) extends to allow air pressure into the positive side... But for the life of me, I cannot figure out how it also allows air to flow into the negative side? Is there a small port that I'm missing somewhere?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

06HokieMTB said:


> Question for the Mezzer experts here:
> 
> How does the negative chamber pressurize?
> 
> With the air shaft apart from the fork, I can see how the silver poppet valve (with the small o-ring seal that seals to the air shaft piston head) extends to allow air pressure into the positive side... But for the life of me, I cannot figure out how it also allows air to flow into the negative side? Is there a small port that I'm missing somewhere?


Silver poppet lifts and lets air bypass through the centre of the piston. There's a vent hole in the side of the shaft, sometimes under the travel spacers but they don't stop air.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mezzer MC^2 damper service instructions: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/media/...ft_Pick_and_Mix_Mezzer_Pro_Self_Tune_Kits.pdf

These were done for the Pick & Mix tune but also work for damper service. We're looking for feedback on this. If you think something is harder/weirder or doesn't make sense let me know.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Ok fellow mezzer tweakers.....just to recap:

Mezzer setup
flattened piston face on rebound side
Compression stack: 20, 17.5, 14
Rebound stack: 12 x 6 x 0.1, 9 x 6 x 0.1, 12 x 6 x 0.1

Rider:
mediocre rider, have been riding a long time but I am not fast or go big, 10-15 foot doubles max, 5-6ft drops max, always to transitions, 170 lbs (77kg) ready to ride
Fork settings: 27.5, 170mm, 50 psi main, 60 psi irt, HSC fully open, LSC, 3 clicks out, rebound 10 clicks out
Trails: lots of roots and rocks on US east coast single track, steep rocky slippery chutes, xc trails to legit DH trails all in one ride, occasionally hit the bike park but pretty rare.

I liked this setup when I am charging and the bike is pointed down hill. Very composed, takes big hits amazingly and I can trust it won't do anything weird....until I go through a sustained rocky trail that is steep and fast for our trails, the rebound starts to get weird as I mentioned earlier. It's not drastic but it feels like it works, then it doesn't, then it does. The setup also feels a bit stiff when I am on flat pedally rocky sections. Nothing I can't deal with but on a longer flatter ride I can tell this will get tiring.

Today I tried bumping down the main to 40 psi and increasing the IRT to 68 psi. The bike felt better on the flatter rocky sections but the fork simply could not keep up with the shock when the bike was pointed down on faster sections. I backed the rebound all the way out and it still felt slow compared to the shock and the bike was not balanced.

I think what I will try next is to soften up the compression stack and try to run the fork back to 50 psi main and 75 psi IRT to see if that will get me the compliance on the flat rocky sections but keep the balance I had before. Maybe run 20, 17.5, 12 on the compression stack? I tried this earlier this year but I was running lower air pressure.

Another thing I could try is switching up the rebound stack, maybe 12, 9, 10 to try and get this thing to rebound faster?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

jmvar said:


> Ok fellow mezzer tweakers.....just to recap:
> 
> Mezzer setup
> flattened piston face on rebound side
> ...


You need a different rebound piston. Contact Shockcraft or NSR racing.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

springs said:


> You need a different rebound piston. Contact Shockcraft or NSR racing.


It's already on it's way from Shockcraft....I just want to make sure I make Dougal's piston and tune earn it's keep and compare it to the best possible stock piston and shim shuffle.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

jmvar said:


> It's already on it's way from Shockcraft....I just want to make sure I make Dougal's piston and tune earn it's keep and compare it to the best possible stock piston and shim shuffle.


Fair enough. It sounds like the issue you are experiencing cannot be tuned out with shims so I think you have reached the point that you'll get a good comparison.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

You'll find with the right rebound curve you can run a meaningful amount without it feeling wrong.
So you can gain chassis control without it packing on rough ground at speed.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

springs said:


> You need a different rebound piston. Contact Shockcraft or NSR racing.


It's already on it's way from Shockcraft....I just want to make sure I make Dougal's piston and tune earn it's keep and compare it to the best possible stock piston and shim shuffle.


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

Just to recap my situation: I was very disappointed with the roughness of mezzer that I tried to solve going to ridiculous low main air pressures (up to 20 psi); the problem was indeed the damper, I replaced the damping oil with the lighest I could find (putoline 2.5 w ,viscosity 6 cst at 40 C) and the situation has improved drastically; now I can use more normal air pressures, the fork isn't that rough on flow trails and small bumps; it's not perfect for my taste but good.
At this point I'm wondering if it's the case to change the shim stack, as these jobs are time consuming and messy; I don't want to do the job and then find out that it was better before .
My dream is a fork with only one knob, soft (flowy trails, small bumps), medium, and hard (big jumps) 😂.
All these HSC, LSC, IRT, etc etc, then oil viscosity, shim stack...I am not a pro...I just want to enjoy my trails.


----------



## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

darius72 said:


> Just to recap my situation: I was very disappointed with the roughness of mezzer that I tried to solve going to ridiculous low main air pressures (up to 20 psi); the problem was indeed the damper, I replaced the damping oil with the lighest I could find (putoline 2.5 w ,viscosity 6 cst at 40 C) and the situation has improved drastically; now I can use more normal air pressures, the fork isn't that rough on flow trails and small bumps; it's not perfect for my taste but good.
> At this point I'm wondering if it's the case to change the shim stack, as these jobs are time consuming and messy; I don't want to do the job and then find out that it was better before .
> My dream is a fork with only one knob, soft (flowy trails, small bumps), medium, and hard (big jumps) 😂.
> All these HSC, LSC, IRT, etc etc, then oil viscosity, shim stack...I am not a pro...I just want to enjoy my trails.


I don't own a Mezzer but have am in the market for a new fork. If you compare the Pro vs. the Expert it descibes your wanted adjustments. The Expert has a VTT damper w/ 6 levels of damping controlled by the twist of one knob. & no IRT (IVA instead). Read a review here: Review: Manitou Mezzer Expert Fork.


----------



## darius72 (Dec 2, 2021)

keen said:


> I don't own a Mezzer but have am in the market for a new fork. If you compare the Pro vs. the Expert it descibes your wanted adjustments. The Expert has a VTT damper w/ 6 levels of damping controlled by the twist of one knob. & no IRT (IVA instead). Read a review here: Review: Manitou Mezzer Expert Fork.


Yes, expert has less knobs...but maybe it also needs different oil or different shims stack as the damper is too viscous...or maybe different air spring OR.


----------



## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

darius72 said:


> Yes, expert has less knobs...but maybe it also needs different oil or different shims stack as the damper is too viscous...or maybe different air spring OR.


 From the reviews the VTT is quite open in the first 2 settings. The IVA spring would be more like a conventional token system. The VTT damper and IVA sell for pretty cheap so they are options you could explore.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Guys I've been thinking in increasing the negative air volume to get a bit more small bump compliance.
I've got a 10mm ID 16mm OD nylon spacer that I'm planing to swap it for the regular travel spacer that clips in place.
They could be used to downsize the IRT chamber too or to fine adjust the travel of your fork (175mm,173mm etc.)
What do you think about this?
Anyone tried already?


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Mikel Knight said:


> Guys I've been thinking in increasing the negative air volume to get a bit more small bump compliance.
> I've got a 10mm ID 16mm OD nylon spacer that I'm planing to swap it for the regular travel spacer that clips in place.
> They could be used to downsize the IRT chamber too or to fine adjust the travel of your fork (175mm,173mm etc.)
> What do you think about this?
> ...


Tried. Small bump improved marginally and fork became divey. Went back to stock neg chamber size.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nmxtrdr said:


> Tried. Small bump improved marginally and fork became divey. Went back to stock neg chamber size.


Fix dive with more LSC.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Fix dive with more LSC.


How different would that small spacer be to just reducing air pressure in the main?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Fix dive with more LSC.


LSC was already maxed out.

You do realize a negative chamber can be too large, right?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nmxtrdr said:


> LSC was already maxed out.
> 
> You do realize a negative chamber can be too large, right?


I've yet to experience a negative chamber that was too large on a fork and that's a relatively minor increase. Too large on a shock is easy.
Negative volume increases on a fork make for a very linear start to the stroke and mean you can run more air pressure for more mid-stroke support (where the negative effect tapers off).

Did you increase air pressure with more negative? If not your spring-rate could now be too soft.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Decreasing the size of the positive chamber could help compensate this in case I feel it's too much?
I will try with the nylon spacers first,I already have drilled lots of holes on one of the spare Manitou travel spacers and I get about 2cc more space in the negative chamber,but I think this would be barely noticeable.
As an example the luftkappe on my old Fox 36 EVOL increased about 16cc in the negative chamber and reduced about 20cc from the positive chamber and It was a big improvement.
The mezzer feels better than my luftkapped fox 36 grip2,just wondering if I could get out a little bit more out of the fork the same way.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Dougal said:


> I've yet to experience a negative chamber that was too large on a fork and that's a relatively minor increase. Too large on a shock is easy.
> Negative volume increases on a fork make for a very linear start to the stroke and mean you can run more air pressure for more mid-stroke support (where the negative effect tapers off).
> 
> Did you increase air pressure with more negative? If not your spring-rate could now be too soft.


Yes. Of course I increased main pressure with the larger neg chamber.

Any minimal gains in SBC with the larger neg chamber were undone when main pressure increases were repeatedly needed to keep the fork from getting divey on steep rock faces and chutes.

The accompanying mid/late stroke progression increase also ruined the forks performance through high speed rock gardens.

Fascination with larger negative chambers reminds me of the air spring token craze days. Sublime feel in the trailhead parking lot and huge disappointment when the trail gets rowdy.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nmxtrdr said:


> Yes. Of course I increased main pressure with the larger neg chamber.
> 
> Any minimal gains in SBC with the larger neg chamber were undone when main pressure increases were repeatedly needed to keep the fork from getting divey on steep rock faces and chutes.
> 
> ...


What pressures were you running?


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Dougal said:


> What pressures were you running?


Started with same pressure I used with standard neg chamber to get a feel for the change. Raised pressure gradually looking for sweet spot but never found one.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nmxtrdr said:


> Started with same pressure I used with standard neg chamber to get a feel for the change. Raised pressure gradually looking for sweet spot but never found one.


I was hoping for some numbers.......


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Dougal said:


> I was hoping for some numbers.......


I think it needs 1.7 more.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Dougal said:


> I was hoping for some numbers.......


Technical specifics of that nature are fee based. PM me and we can discuss payment options.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nmxtrdr said:


> Technical specifics of that nature are fee based. PM me and we can discuss payment options.


Wait, we can charge for that?


----------



## Herbert Harris (Feb 18, 2017)

Regarding the New Owner Check List: When checking the oil and grease after dropping the lowers do you folks recommend replacing the seals as well? The new fork has been on the shelf for a year. Thanks


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Herbert Harris said:


> Regarding the New Owner Check List: When checking the oil and grease after dropping the lowers do you folks recommend replacing the seals as well? The new fork has been on the shelf for a year. Thanks


If the fork is new there is no reason to change the seals, I would just soak the foam rings on bath oil and put some slickoleum on the seals.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Herbert Harris said:


> Regarding the New Owner Check List: When checking the oil and grease after dropping the lowers do you folks recommend replacing the seals as well? The new fork has been on the shelf for a year. Thanks


These wiper seals last extremely well. I traded the first Mezzer I sold in mid 19 and the seals are still fine. My 2020 LE wiper seals are also still working perfectly.


----------



## katko (Aug 6, 2008)

New owner of the Mezzer Pro 160 mm 29...ebay bargain...like new...will lower the travel to 140 and use the new ring and oil...looking forward  also bought the Giant digital pump in sale online  great thread this, thank you


----------

