# The 2x2 bike



## acrylucs (Feb 18, 2006)

Yeah, I drew one as a kid. While sorting my ****, my mom brought it up. Now I've heard they kind of exist as like novelty, but i have to see it to beleive it. Anyone?
just to be clear, I'm looking for a bike that has a drivetrain for the front and rear wheel..


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## Cabin Fever (Jan 23, 2004)

http://www.christini.com/ <<hilarious


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## Trabso (Sep 21, 2005)

Here you go
http://www.christini.com/index2.php


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## eggraid101 (Mar 13, 2006)

*Wow!*

That looks cool! Any chance it'll catch on? Maybe one of the big manufacturers will buy them out and try to mass market it?


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## acrylucs (Feb 18, 2006)

omfg thats soooo coool!!!!


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

> That looks cool! Any chance it'll catch on? Maybe one of the big manufacturers will buy them out and try to mass market it?


I think *Jeep* are selling re-badged Christini's. 

There are a few threads here on MTBR about them too. Try a search for more info. Tom has a few comments on them *here*. :thumbsup:

Cheers, Dave.


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

Slim chance. The relatively minor performance gain comes at a pretty hefty price of weight, complexity, added maintenance, production cost, & aesthetics. Christini has been trying to popuarize the 2wd concept for years, even in the twilight of the great MTB boom, where bad ideas were embraced with just as enthusiastically as good ones, and still, no one would touch them with a ten foot pole.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

i just read an article in a local paper (there from philly same as me) that they pretty much scrapped the idea for bikes and are now focusing the effort on 2wd dirtbikes (the kind with motors).

seems like the added weight wont be such a hinderance there and the added perfomance will definitely be something he dirtbike world has never seen before.

it does seem like a good idea but maybe not for bicycles...


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## Blue Shorts (Jun 1, 2004)

*A thought*

At first, I was going to respond to this thread in a manner similar to your post, but then I gave it some more thought.

Initially, I figured that a 2WD bike is useless. On steep climbs, there is so little weight on the front wheel that it becomes useless for climbing. If the trail is not that steep, who cares... a 1WD bike works great.

Then I thought... If you are climbing a very steep hill.... with a 2wd bike, you can put all your weight over the front wheel and still climb. I wonder how that would work. Maybe there is an advantage to the 2WD bike after all


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## Fast Eddy (Dec 30, 2003)

*Yamaha and KTM have 2wd*

Yamaha and suspension maker Ohlins pioneered a 2wd system for a yz450f for the Dakar Rally in '04. David Fretigne came in 5th in the on one in '04, and won his category in '05. I didn't see the '06 results.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=yamaha+2-trac

KTM and Ohlin also may be making a production version and other companies have various things available:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=2wd+motorcycle:


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

Blue Shorts said:


> Then I thought... If you are climbing a very steep hill.... with a 2wd bike, you can put all your weight over the front wheel and still climb. I wonder how that would work. Maybe there is an advantage to the 2WD bike after all


Yep, you nailed it. That's the advantage. Unfortunately, people don't climb non-stop when they get on their bike, which means the advantage is a part-time one, and the disadvantages of the extra drag, weight, & maintenance are full-time. They're interesting to take out for a spin, but it's nice getting back on a normal bike again at the end of the ride.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

A few comments on riding technique are on the *Christini website*.

I remember reading a review of the Christini in a magazine ages ago (forgotten the name - possibly MBA??), and once comfortable with the Christini's handling traits the tester was genuinely surprised with what he could get away with.

It's certainly more then just a novelty, but it definitely needs more development before it will be accepted as a MTB and not a play toy.

Dave.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

Low_Rider said:


> A few comments on riding technique are on the *Christini website*.
> 
> I remember reading a review of the Christini in a magazine ages ago (forgotten the name - possibly MBA??), and once comfortable with the Christini's handling traits the tester was genuinely surprised with what he could get away with.
> 
> ...


I remember that review - I think it was MBA - and the rider was pleasantly surprised, but also made it clear he failed to see the point. I have to say, I don't see it as anything more than just a novelty.


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## Godzilla (Mar 31, 2005)

I rode one for a few minutes at the 24 Hours of Moab a couple years ago (a demo bike) - the thing made a horrific grinding noise under power. Personally, I see it as a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

I personally think that it's a good idea to have traction on two wheels for certain trails. I think it's a good idea that Christini is trying to do something about it, but I think that it needs more refinement. I don't know if there will be a viable 2WD bike, but it's good that someone tries it.


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## johneracer (Mar 23, 2006)

I think it is a useless idea. If you look at AWD cars v. RWD or FWD cars, you realize the increased power loss of AWD as it simply takes more power to to turn all wheels due to friction, additional driveaxels, differentials, weight...etc. Granted I am comparing cars to bicycles however this still applies. We are NOT blessed by great physical strength or endurance so all power we can extract from our legs needs to be transfered to the wheel with minimal power loss. We simply do not have power to spare like an internal combustion engine or at least a strong animal. I just dont see any benefit to this......althought it does look cool


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

In all fairness, the Christini system is not full time. When you need it, you push a lever to momentarily engage it. I was really suprised at how well thought out the system is for the difficult problem of sending power fromt he rear to the front of a bike.

Still, I think it is a solution in need of a problem. It might be handy in deep sand, mud, or snow (just like 4WD vehicles), but it probably just isn't worth it on a bicycle.


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## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

Personally, I'd like to see a little more momentum in the area of centrally located internal transmissions. Yes I know about the G-Boxx and Rohloff/Nicolai etc. but I'd like to see more of these coming to market. If SRAM and Shimano made bigger pushes in this area we could see some cool stuff on affordable bikes.

Derailleurs or so nineteenth century.

BMW saw the benefits of 2-wheel drive on a motorcycle back in WW2. Although, I think it was a sidecar outfit with 2wd on the rear.

Then there's the kettenkrad!


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

tigerdog said:


> Personally, I'd like to see a little more momentum in the area of centrally located internal transmissions. Yes I know about the G-Boxx and Rohloff/Nicolai etc. but I'd like to see more of these coming to market. If SRAM and Shimano made bigger pushes in this area we could see some cool stuff on affordable bikes.
> 
> Derailleurs or so nineteenth century.
> 
> ...


I think they could just chuck that fork and front wheel away hehe.



Stu


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

@dam said:


> In all fairness, the Christini system is not full time. When you need it, you push a lever to momentarily engage it. I was really suprised at how well thought out the system is for the difficult problem of sending power fromt he rear to the front of a bike.


It took me a minute to remember, but you're right. In theory, the system disengages and engages at the flip of the bar-mounted thumb lever. I forgot about this, since on the first ones I rode, there was no thumb lever, and on the later bike I rode, the lever was present, but didn't work.

Good point though, it is a pretty clever design, & not as easy a solution as one might think. Especially the little trick running through the head tube & fork crown. A neat project, even if it is unneccessary & not 100% appropriate for the application.

If they're going out, I might pick one up on clearance as a novelty.


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## Ultra Magnus (Jan 13, 2004)

The russian URAL has a driven sidecar wheel. There's a website with entertaining video clips of test dummies (real people) working on giving their chiroparctors more business..

As I vaugely remember they supposedly knocked of a BMW bike design, which was already old at the time, and then never changed anything over the years as they produced it. The one with the machine gun mount looks cool.

Ah, found it...
http://www.imz-ural.com/downloads/movies.htm

BM


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## big.brain (Apr 26, 2004)

*Christini Rider Chimes in*

If you dont mind, I will chime in, and hope you guys get it. I have been riding for almost 20 years, always on a 1WD bike. Had the oppty to meet Steve Christini at his shop in Philly, saw the technology, and immediately made the purchase. (trying to hide that one from the wife is a WHOLE other story). Heres how it works, and why it has made me a better rider:

The front wheel is UNDERdriven, which means the AWD is only active on the front wheel when the front wheel travels SLOWER than the rear. (eg: rear wheel slips, front wheel hits obstacle, front wheel slides out.) Its posi-tratction on a bike.

Heres the advantage:
Up steeps: Apply POWER to the pedal, and forget about rear wheel slippage (wet conditions, dry, rocky conditions, etc). So move your body over the front, no biggie. That "grinding noise" only happens on initial ride, and goes away after break in, like 2 rides). Stand up on the steepest climbs and climb with the FRONT WHEEL! Cool shi#!

Over obstacles: Front wheel lliterally pulls you over large logs 2+ft tall. Rock ledges, etc. Cool. Ass the front wheel stalls, the AWD kicks in, and you will feel the wheel climb over whatever it hit to make it stall.

Downhill: You ever go really FAST around a corner and the front wheel washes out? Not me, because as soon as my front starts to "plow", the AWD kicks in, and TRACKS me back online. (I admit, this is SUPER scary the first few times, but you learn to trust it)

Maintenance? You will not put this away wet, and beat it to hell. Keep it semi-clean, and lube teh gears before every ride, and all will be well in your world. This bike has literally changed the way I ride, and a BLOW climbs away that I used to granny-suffer in.

You cant beat it. Pics will follow if anyone wants to see my rig.


















BB


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## acrylucs (Feb 18, 2006)

I'd love to see some action pics and maybe a price tag? I think a AWD system would be great if the bike remained light and the friction loss was marginal. There are plenty of short, rutty steep climbs AWD would be cool on. I have to say...for all you naysayers, the concept is still radical and shouldn't be given up yet.

I guess I just want my drawing to come true!


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## big.brain (Apr 26, 2004)

*Christini Rider Chimes in, again*

See my pics in prior post.

Price tag - you need to build a front wheel with proprietary Front hub ($140 build with DT to Mavic 819 rims)

Frame, Fork, Shock (manitou 3-way) and F hub $1600. (not bad)

My FULL build is 30.5 lbs. There is VERY LITTLE drag in the system. That was DEF a concern of mine, but is really is not there. Ride #1 you notice drag, but thats the system breaking in. (no biggie)

ALL other components are stock components.

BB


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