# Q on Clipless Pedals and Release Angle



## Crash_Enburn (Mar 31, 2008)

Does the tension setting on clipless pedals make any change to the release angle? I'm using SPDs, but I would expect the question to be equally (in?)valid for other makes.

My pedals are set to near full loose, and it seems like I have to make quite the twist to release. It got me to wondering if cranking down on the release pressure might change that some.

Oddly enough, I've yet to accidentally release from my pedals (on my MTB or my road bike) even though they're set to loose, and I'm a bit of a Clyde at 250 lbs.

TIA,


----------



## mlepito (May 1, 2007)

no, the release angle will not change. But here are some hints. 
1. make sure your shoes are tight. Too loose and your foot moves in the shoe, not on the pedal
2. twist out, not in. Although they will release either way, twisting in will be hindered by the crankarm
3. spd's don't matter as much but on time and crankbros, they hold on harder with more pressure on the pedal
4. new cleats are harder to get out with. When they break-in more, you will release easier. This is one reason a lot of newer riders don't like clip pedals at first; they are new, and the pedals/cleats are new too.


----------



## tduro (Jan 2, 2007)

Not long ago, I was a newb to clipless (SPD). I set them really loose, but still got stuck in the pedals more than I cared to. 

I adjusted the angle of the cleats on my shoes so that it takes very little foot twist to disengage from the pedals. I no longer get stuck in the pedals, and I'm ready to start tightening the tension.


----------



## sstorkel (Nov 24, 2008)

mlepito said:


> 2. twist out, not in. Although they will release either way, twisting in will be hindered by the crankarm


I frequently twist my heel inward to get my M520 SPD pedals to release. There's really only about a quarter of the pedal stroke where the crank can get in the way...


----------



## Zooropa (Apr 7, 2009)

I just brought home my first mtn bike (an 08 stumpy fsr comp) this past week and while at the lbs I had them take off the clipless that were on there and slap a cheap set of flats on there for the time being cause I'm a lil worried about not being able to get out of the pedals quick enough if i'm about to wreck/fall etc. As a noob I have to put my feet on the ground periodically and walk through some stretches of terrain that I can't handle yet when I'm riding with my friends who are all more experienced. I'm planning on giving the clipless that came with it a try pretty soon. Any suggestions/advice for a noob on this? The pedals are crank bros. smarty and the shoes are specialzied sport.


----------



## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

i like CB better than spd, the release angle isn't as much, and they are much easier to clip-in... just my 2c.. i wouldn't mind trying time eventually...


----------



## jim453 (Oct 23, 2006)

sstorkel said:


> I frequently twist my heel inward to get my M520 SPD pedals to release. There's really only about a quarter of the pedal stroke where the crank can get in the way...


Which quarter?

seems odd to me. isn't the whole bike in the way on 100% of the pedal stroke?

or, for that matter, the physiology of the lower leg. surely your heel will twist out way easier than it will twist in? Maybe you've got really strange legs.

Sorry, still really tired.

i've thought about it a lttle more. twisting inwards is ridiculous. if you then needed to stick yer leg out for support you'd need a totally new direction of movement. possibly even dangerous.

whatever anyway. i'm off to bed.


----------



## tmcq (Mar 2, 2009)

*Twisting in is not a problem...personal preference*



jim453 said:


> Which quarter?
> 
> i've thought about it a lttle more. twisting inwards is ridiculous. if you then needed to stick yer leg out for support you'd need a totally new direction of movement. possibly even dangerous.


It's not ridiculous at all...I always twist in. The crankarm is only in the way for the quarter of the stroke around 3 o'clock (disengaging pedal fully forward). I don't have really strange legs...but my feet are naturally angled outward, perhaps a bit more than average, so twisting outward bends my foot in a direction it does not go easily - as a result they don't pop out, and I fall down. Now that I am used to it, twisting in is easy and quick, and one fluid movement...then I put my foot down as needed - nothing dangerous.

Back to the original post - I use SPD's as well, but the tension issue does not translate to Crankbros - because they don't have adjustable tension (at least not the models I am familiar with).


----------



## mlepito (May 1, 2007)

crank brothers and time has this active release type system that changes with the pressure on the pedal. That's why they don't have tension, (I know the time xs has a tension adjustment, but it still self adjusts). I don't like crank bros because you will release if you ht the pedal on the bottom, like riding over logs. The difference between time and spd is mostly the release angle and how much float you want, not the ease of clipping out. Once you get good at it, you will find it's personal preference. I like the float of the time, but if you like more control over the bike spds will feel more attached.


----------



## jsk0703 (Feb 20, 2009)

tduro said:


> I adjusted the angle of the cleats on my shoes so that it takes very little foot twist to disengage from the pedals. I no longer get stuck in the pedals, and I'm ready to start tightening the tension.


Yeah, this has worked for me as well. I noticed my left foot disengaged easier than my right. So I adjusted the cleat on my right shoe basically pointing the tip of the cleat a little towards my big toe. This made it so that I didn't have to kick my heel out as far to get the pedal to disengage. Yet I still have enough float in the pedal to not come unclipped during normal riding.

Just be careful not to angle the cleat too much otherwise your ankle will be smacking the crank arm.


----------



## tduro (Jan 2, 2007)

jsk0703 said:


> Yeah, this has worked for me as well. I noticed my left foot disengaged easier than my right. So I adjusted the cleat on my right shoe basically pointing the tip of the cleat a little towards my big toe. This made it so that I didn't have to kick my heel out as far to get the pedal to disengage. Yet I still have enough float in the pedal to not come unclipped during normal riding.
> 
> Just be careful not to angle the cleat too much otherwise your ankle will be smacking the crank arm.


Yeah, it's a real fine line. I clip out just fine when I need to, and sometimes when I don't need to. Sometimes in a twisty, rocky trail, I'll clip out unintentionally just from the body english. Just last week, I unclipped off a small drop at high speed, lost control and got launched. Separated my shoulder and I'm out for the next month or two, if not longer. I think 1 degree of cleat adjustment may have made the difference.


----------



## jim453 (Oct 23, 2006)

jim453 said:


> Which quarter?
> 
> seems odd to me. isn't the whole bike in the way on 100% of the pedal stroke?
> 
> ...


Since i wrote the above garbage i've tried twisting in and it WORKS WELL.

problem is, now I know it works, i can't stop slipping out of the cleat by moving my ankle inward. feel like going back to platforms. Please don't point anything else out that is possible or I may have to sell my bike.


----------



## sstorkel (Nov 24, 2008)

belowambient said:


> i like CB better than spd, the release angle isn't as much, and they are much easier to clip-in... just my 2c.. i wouldn't mind trying time eventually...


Last time I checked, Crank Brothers pedals had either a 15- or 20-degree release angle (depending on which cleat is on which shoe) while SPD pedals were much less; I want to say the SPDs release with only 10-degrees of heel twist...

Personally, I prefer the more positive engagement of the SPDs; the engagement of the Crank Brothers pedals is so mushy, I often find myself wondering whether I've managed to clip-in or not.


----------



## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

sstorkel said:


> Last time I checked, Crank Brothers pedals had either a 15- or 20-degree release angle (depending on which cleat is on which shoe) while SPD pedals were much less; I want to say the SPDs release with only 10-degrees of heel twist...
> 
> Personally, I prefer the more positive engagement of the SPDs; the engagement of the Crank Brothers pedals is so mushy, I often find myself wondering whether I've managed to clip-in or not.


spd are 15-20 also


----------



## sstorkel (Nov 24, 2008)

belowambient said:


> spd are 15-20 also


Can you prove it?


----------



## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

you first


----------



## sstorkel (Nov 24, 2008)

belowambient said:


> you first


I'll take this reply to mean that you _can't_ prove that SPDs release at 15-20 degrees...


----------



## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

sstorkel said:


> I'll take this reply to mean that you _can't_ prove that SPDs release at 15-20 degrees...


you didnt google it or ask shimano yet?


----------



## sstorkel (Nov 24, 2008)

belowambient said:


> you didnt google it or ask shimano yet?


Sorry, I couldn't find any Google evidence to support your claim that the release angle is 15-20 degrees. You'll have to point me to it


----------



## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

well i think i have it figured out... i wanted ot validate my claim because I was told by my local LBS that spd is 27, cb is 15-20, and time is 12-15...

heres the deal.. spd cleats are one sided design (CB is x2 design) in release and spd pedals are adjustable float of 12.5 degrees maximum... due to the one sided cleat you will have to multiply this by two which gives you the 25 degree release... i don't know about your experience with spd's but i had to adjust mine to be more secure which makes the 27 degree notion acceptable...

hope that makes sense...


----------



## sstorkel (Nov 24, 2008)

belowambient said:


> well i think i have it figured out... i wanted ot validate my claim because I was told by my local LBS that spd is 27, cb is 15-20, and time is 12-15...
> 
> heres the deal.. spd cleats are one sided design (CB is x2 design) in release and spd pedals are adjustable float of 12.5 degrees maximum... due to the one sided cleat you will have to multiply this by two which gives you the 25 degree release... i don't know about your experience with spd's but i had to adjust mine to be more secure which makes the 27 degree notion acceptable...


Are you sure we're talking about the same kind of pedals? My Shimano M520 SPD pedals do _not_ have adjustable float. Neither do the M540, M770, or M970 SPD pedals. They have adjustable release tension, but the float is fixed at 4-degrees by the cleats.

I'm not sure about this "one sided design" thing you're talking about, either. Unlike Crank Brothers cleats, Shimano SPD cleats are symmetric; the release angle and float are the same no matter which cleat is on which shoe. So I'm not clear on why you'd multiply the float angle by two to get the release angle, but if you do: 2 * 4 = 8 degrees. That's less than the 10-degrees I claimed and a _lot_ less than the 15-degrees for Crank Brothers pedals...


----------



## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

sstorkel said:


> Are you sure we're talking about the same kind of pedals? My Shimano M520 SPD pedals do _not_ have adjustable float. Neither do the M540, M770, or M970 SPD pedals. They have adjustable release tension, but the float is fixed at 4-degrees by the cleats.
> 
> I'm not sure about this "one sided design" thing you're talking about, either. Unlike Crank Brothers cleats, Shimano SPD cleats are symmetric; the release angle and float are the same no matter which cleat is on which shoe. So I'm not clear on why you'd multiply the float angle by two to get the release angle, but if you do: 2 * 4 = 8 degrees. That's less than the 10-degrees I claimed and a _lot_ less than the 15-degrees for Crank Brothers pedals...


You are talking about the float angle which i knew would happen... the spd cleats have 1 release edge so you will have to multiply that by two to compare to cb which has a double release edge.... the spd has an adjustable float which is absurdly unsecure once you get the hang of a clipless pedal... when i had spd's i had to tighten the floating angle which widens the release angle and tightens the float angle... this is way shimano wont give you an exact degree of release, yet claim them to be adjustable...

i think what im getting at is once you get used to clipless pedals you will find the limitations of spd and want to move on to something more secure like an xtr, cb, or time


----------



## sstorkel (Nov 24, 2008)

belowambient said:


> You are talking about hte float angle which i knew would happen... the spd cleats have 1 release edge so you will have to multiply that by two to compare to cb which has a double release edge


So we agree? 2 * 4-degree = 8-degree release angle?


----------



## laranz (May 13, 2013)

I ALWAYS release "heel in". Perhaps my legs are "strange"; I can't twist my heels outwards far enough to activate the release mechanism that way [I can't get my heels to the point where my heels are further out than my toes; in my natural stance my toes are way more out than my heels]. I can easily release "heel in", though it does hit the crank arm in some positions (just means I get wear marks in the paint of my crank arms) and occasionally hits the front chain ring for the right foot, which puts a hole in the medial side of my right shoe but the pedal will still release in both these situations and apart from the hole in my shoe, hitting the chain ring isn't as bad as it sounds. If you can release "heel out" then I'd recommend it for the above two reasons if nothing else; but some people simply can't release "heel out" and for them it is worth hearing that it is possible to release "heel in". If you are like me and can't turn your heels out and are using cleats for the first time I recommend mounting them the opposite way to instructions to make the "heel in" release angle as small as possible. And set the release tension really low. And make sure your shoes fit as tightly as possible. I also mount my cleats on an angle relative to the shoe to get a better pedalling position, as I can't get my feet parallel to the bike frame, so actually I hit the crankarm sometimes even when I'm not trying to release [it is fair to say my leg anatomy is a bit screwed but very few people have perfectly aligned limbs with varying degrees of screwedness being most common]. I love spd pedals and find they work really really well for me despite the above. Everyone is different.



jim453 said:


> Which quarter?
> 
> seems odd to me. isn't the whole bike in the way on 100% of the pedal stroke?
> 
> ...


----------

