# Dropper Posts Benefits are Over Exaggerated



## jeremy283 (Jan 22, 2017)

This is beginning to be my take on it. I've been dropping my seatpost with a quick release on every downhill run/jump park run but recently I was doing some urban drops (stair sets) and jumps. Later I realized I was running my seatpost at the normal height. No issues at the time and I didn't even realize I hadn't dropped my seat.

Sure they slightly get in the way (but not bad) at normal height when running a REAL steep downhill but unless you're going down VERY STEEP inclines regularly I don't see a normal seat post height as an issue. Even at normal height it hardly gets in the way cause when I lean back I'm behind the seat anyway.

I also noticed my bunny hops at high speed and drops were much better executed. I think having the seat it normal height helps me aim the bike better in the air.

Just my thoughts.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

jeremy283 said:


> This is beginning to be my take on it. I've been dropping my seatpost with a quick release on every downhill run/jump park run but recently I was doing some urban drops (stair sets) and jumps. Later I realized I was running my seatpost at the normal height. No issues at the time and I didn't even realize I hadn't dropped my seat.
> 
> Sure they slightly get in the way (but not bad) at normal height when running a REAL steep downhill but unless you're going down VERY STEEP inclines regularly I don't see a normal seat post height as an issue. Even at normal height it hardly gets in the way cause when I lean back I'm behind the seat anyway.
> 
> ...











I do ride steeps, drops and gap jumps regularly (usually all three on any given ride) and I've skipped rides because my dropper was broken. It is completely integral to my riding.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

^^^+1


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## jeremy283 (Jan 22, 2017)

TheDwayyo said:


> View attachment 1137740
> 
> 
> I do ride steeps, drops and gap jumps regularly (usually all three on any given ride) and I've skipped rides because my dropper was broken. It is completely integral to my riding.


It's good to see insight regarding droppers. Nearly everyone swears by them but the potential for failures is another reason I have not taken the plunge.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

I didn't like them the first time I tried. Won't ever go back now. You definitely have to learn to incorporate it into your riding... Stopping and dropping your seat is not the same.

Reliability is improving, but more importantly costs are coming down so it's not such a big deal if you need a rebuild from time to time.


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

There was more of a learning curve than I was expecting when I switched on one of my bikes. One super steep technical singletrack, they're a huge benefit, you can get your weight back without a seat blocking you.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

TheDwayyo said:


> View attachment 1137740
> 
> 
> I do ride steeps, drops and gap jumps regularly (usually all three on any given ride) and I've skipped rides because my dropper was broken. It is completely integral to my riding.


Second this. I use mine constantly where I ride no matter if I'm going down or just cornering. Being able to really lean the bike and load the tires without the seat being in the way is great, and I really don't see why anyone wouldn't want that.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Dropper post benefits are under-exaggerated.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

...


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## splitendz (Nov 13, 2015)

I've thought about this a lot. I prefer to have a dropper, and it does make it easier for the backward movement, however, all those movements are possible without a dropper.. just takes more effort, and being a bit more creative.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

I've never had a dropper on my bikes to date (currently on a '12 anthem)... having said that, I've demoed several new bikes with them the last couple of years, and I think they are absolutely fantastic... so I disagree with your assessment. Especially with the new, more forward/centered geometry trend, it becomes more critical to have the post out of the way for getting weight low and back. The cornering with the seat down was pretty eye opening too. So ready for a new whip.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Riding with the seat really high, legs at full extension, is absolutely great for climbing, and pedaling efficiently on flat terrain. But it sux ballz riding aggressively downhill, playful riding, popping off things and such with the seat like that.

Riding with the seat down, and out of the way, is great for cornering, riding aggressively, downhilling, steep stuff, etc. But it sux ballz trying to climb, or pedal efficiently on flat terrain with the seat like that.

If only there was a solution.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

I have more fun riding with a dropper than without. That's really the bottom line for me.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Before I had a dropper post I would manually put my seat down for the longer descents, and on occasion get lazy and keep it up, but descend slower.

In the last 10 months of having a dropper being able to push a button and get the seat where I want it exactly when I want it without having to get off the bike is a fantastic thing.

I strongly disagree with the OP. The dropper post is amazing. My riding area consists of many ups and downs so I was adjusting the seat post 4 to 6 times a ride. Now I can adjust on the fly while pedaling and even mid-downhill run to get up higher and power through a flat section.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Different strokes. I have a ton of short up/downs and the dropper is great. Long sustained climbs and descents probably not needed. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

I might demo one, maybe. So, MA rider here. Lots of punchy shorts climbs and ridges here. Do ya'll really drop the post for 3 turns or 30-50 ft of decent? Seem to do just fine without. Next you'll tell me disc and tubeless are good( JK, that **** rocks!)


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## FullBladdy (Aug 26, 2011)

I have grown to really appreciate how my dropper allows me to get more in the bike on downhill sections. It also allows the seat to rest against my thighs for more control in turns. It was a bit of a learning curve but now I am convinced. My brother took longer and was looking to get rid of his. One night when I was tooling on his bike I moved the remote closer to the grips and that was a game changer. For him hitting the remote at the right time with the right control over the bike was a pita. When it was in a better place all that went away and he saw the benefits. I can see how taller riders may not see as much of an advantage but for my 5'10" frame it works especially well on my 29er.


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## Dexter-01 (Sep 30, 2016)

I think bike geometry plays a big part in this. On my older xc bike with shorter reach and slack seat angle I never felt like I needed one at all. On my new Honzo with its long reach I definitely feel the seat in the way on the same trails.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

I just run a $12 chinese carbon saddle on a $17 post, slammed to the frame. A seat makes you more efficient at the cost of style and a chi bottleneck.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Aaahhhhahaha.
"I have never used _______ but they suck" Dropper posts are underrated and usually undersized. Run the largest drop that will fit in your frame. 200MM for me.:thumbsup:


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

leeboh said:


> Do ya'll really drop the post for 3 turns or 30-50 ft of decent?


Yes. I drop the seat for individual features, corners, hills... Sometimes just to get a different position on the saddle for recovery. It's not like it takes time or energy to drop or raise it, it is basically a reflex for me at this point.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

TheDwayyo said:


> Yes. I drop the seat for individual features, corners, hills... Sometimes just to get a different position on the saddle for recovery. It's not like it takes time or energy to drop or raise it, it is basically a reflex for me at this point.


I use my dropper as much as my shifter. It's a reflex for me too.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Over the course of a year, I developed my riding habits around dropper posts. I learned when to drop it like it's hot and when to have it full extended. 

Overall, I feel much more confident in my riding abilities and learning new skills by having a dropper post.


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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

Without seeing what post extension the OP rides as "extended" I would hesitate to judge his comment. 
I will say that many people I see ride with a post that is too low to start with which would contribute to this sentiment expressed by the OP.

If you extend the post where it should be for max climbing efficiency it is a huge advantage to drop the seat out of the way for many reasons. 
Dropper posts rule. I don't know how I got along before it emerged as a thing.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

I had a chair with a dropper post at this arcade I used to play Centipede at.

It was pretty sweet.


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

jeremy283 said:


> It's good to see insight regarding droppers. Nearly everyone swears by them but the potential for failures is another reason I have not taken the plunge.


so youre saying they are overrated and havent even used one?


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

leeboh said:


> I might demo one, maybe. So, MA rider here. Lots of punchy shorts climbs and ridges here. Do ya'll really drop the post for 3 turns or 30-50 ft of decent? Seem to do just fine without. Next you'll tell me disc and tubeless are good( JK, that **** rocks!)


Absolutely for me. I also find that you can pump the bike better with the seat out of the way, which translates into more flow and speed without pedaling.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Dropper posts are not a necessary thing, but they CAN assist you in doing things FASTER and easier. 

Back in the 90s, I used to make fun of people who would stop and lower their seats.

Dropper posts may be more beneficial in extremely techincal terrain, or for people with shorter legs. I am 6'0", with a 34-35" inseam, and I can get over the back of a bike NO problem. A dropper makes it easier, and able to go faster, but not NEEDED. 

Everyone is different.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

I'd like to see legislation to mandate dropper posts on all new mountain bikes by 2019. Older bikes could be recalled and retrofitted, or destroyed with the owner receiving a credit toward a new dropper-equipped bike.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

DethWshBkr said:


> Dropper posts are not a necessary thing, but they CAN assist you in doing things FASTER and easier.
> 
> Back in the 90s, I used to make fun of people who would stop and lower their seats.
> 
> ...


False premise.

"Needed" and "preferred" aren't really the same. I don't see anyone saying its needed. Preferred, yes.


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## Cylinder9 (May 22, 2014)

The dropper is a huge advantage to the way I like to ride. I keep my seat down as much as possible because I like the control and playfulness so its nice to be able to pop it all the way up for climbing or run it in a good compromise position between pedaling and bike control.

The dropper post may be one of the most impactful upgrades you can do.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

They're not for me, but if somebody else feels there's a benefit, more power to them.


.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

TheDwayyo said:


> ..I've skipped rides because my dropper was broken. It is completely integral to my riding.


sucks to be you...


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

DethWshBkr said:


> Dropper posts may be more beneficial in extremely techincal terrain, or for people with shorter legs. I am 6'0", with a 34-35" inseam, and I can get over the back of a bike NO problem.


5'9"
30" inseem

Makes a huuuuge difference to me


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

6' 0" and learned for many years without a dropper. I've been using one since 2008', that's 9 years of use. I use it minimally and only for steep descents. Most of the time I'm through a steep tech session before I even drop it, or it's too late and I don't bother. I've tried the technique of dropping it for corners, that some swear by, It's not for me. 

Is it a needed feature?

In my opinion, no.

Is it a beneficial feature?

In some cases yes.

It's a great thing to have and it depends on the trails you ride. I'd rather have one and use it accordingly than not have one and crave it.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

If you don't think a dropper post is the best thing since sliced bread, you probably need to ride better trails...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

David R said:


> If you don't think a dropper post is the best thing since sliced bread, you probably need to ride better trails...


I ride great trails in the Rocky Mountains. I like my sourdough bread non sliced, thank you.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

jeremy283 said:


> It's good to see insight regarding droppers. Nearly everyone swears by them but the potential for failures is another reason I have not taken the plunge.


You should at least try one for a few rides before deciding that they're over-rated.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Lone Rager said:


> Dropper post benefits are under-exaggerated.


This^^^

If you ain't ridin' with a dropper... then you ain't ridin'.

Hold on a second. Am I in the Rails to Trails - Hybrid Bike forum?


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> 6' 0" and learned for many years without a dropper. I've been using one since 2008', that's 9 years of use. I use it minimally and only for steep descents. Most of the time I'm through a steep tech session before I even drop it, or it's too late and I don't bother. I've tried the technique of dropping it for corners, that some swear by, It's not for me.
> 
> Is it a needed feature?
> 
> ...


Pretty much wrote how I feel overall. After riding dirt bikes since I was 6 years old, I'm just used to actually gripping and using the seat most of the time. Even when I use my dropper, I drop it maybe 3". I never slam it all the way down unless it's when I'm loading 4 bikes on my rack and we're having fitment issues. That being said, I'm suing it more often when I **KNOW** some gnarly terrain is coming but I don't go up, down, up, down...I just leave it down a few inches thru that entire section.

Conversely, all my friends are the types who think it's the best invention ever and use it CONSTANTLY.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Miker J said:


> If you ain't ridin' with a dropper... then you ain't ridin'.


This is my singular problem with droppers, or more accurately with some of the people who use them. You guys are almost as evangelical as fat bikers. "Bro!...where's your dropper? How can you ride without a dropper!?!? You gotta get a dropper bro!!!"

Thanks, but no thanks Inspector Gadget.

.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

_CJ said:


> This is my singular problem with droppers, or more accurately with some of the people who use them. You guys are almost as evangelical as fat bikers. "Bro!...where's your dropper? How can you ride without a dropper!?!? You gotta get a dropper bro!!!"
> 
> Thanks, but no thanks Mr. Gadget.
> 
> .


You are right. I'm fanatical about droppers. Was an early adopter, back when the GD first came out and we were racing Super D.

We are lucky enough to have trails with serious features around every other corner. I drop more than I shift. Our trails are not all long ups and long downs. You can tell a lot about a good rider's local terrain based on their bike set up.

Yep, I must be in the Rails to Trails - Hybrid Bike forum.

Then again, I don't have a dropper on my DH rig.

Look at the body position of any DH rider or Enduro racer on a techy section. Droppers simply permit correct body position on the bike for navigating tech. Not lowering your position is a compromise to bike handling.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

TheDwayyo said:


> View attachment 1137740
> 
> 
> I do ride steeps, drops and gap jumps regularly (usually all three on any given ride) and I've skipped rides because my dropper was broken. It is completely integral to my riding.


you skipped races because you wouldn't ride a regular seatpost? or you dropper broke which caused you not being able to race?


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Miker J said:


> ...We are lucky enough to have trails with serious features around every other corner....


that's just silly talk. there have been sick ass trails since long before the dropper came around. we rode the trails fine then, we will continue to ride them just as well...

i don't hate on them, sure it's likely a nice convenience every now and again, i just don't think i need it. i've ridden on them and have always leave the seat in one place anyway. to pretend like it's a necessity and that it make your ride "properly" comes off a little too much kool-aid sounding to me...


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

The question is not when to drop, but when to extend. It's advantageous to have the saddle out of the way, unless peddling while seated. I would trade both my Knolly's for hardtails before I went back to a rigid post. If you don't see the advantage maybe you should visit BC


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

I have a 29er specific dropper


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Travis Bickle said:


> The question is not when to drop, but when to extend.


i'm pretty short and only have a 28" inseam. a seat a few inches from being slammed is pretty extended for me. which is why i said i don't really need one, but don't feel like i need to hate on them...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)




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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

It's no coincidence that they look like a crutch. s/


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cool story, bro


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> now you're just being stupid. there have been sick ass trails since long before the dropper came around. we rode the trails fine then, we will continue to ride them just as well...
> 
> i don't hate on them, sure it's likely a nice convenience every now and again, i just don't think i need it. i've ridden on them and have always leave the seat in one place anyway. to pretend like it's a necessity and that it make your ride "properly" is plain ignorance...


Let's not get all nasty calling people names. Poking fun, ok. Nasty, no.

You can tell a lot about a good riders terrain based on there bike set up. As alluded to by Mr. Bickel, trails outside your own are likely different. If you rode ours you'd feel differently.

I can point out we also ran 1.95" X 26", high durometer tires, with 50psi on rigid bikes, on "sick ass trails". Perhaps we should debate that too?

Maybe your moniker is not all that relavant anymore.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

"Holy post, Batman"


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Miker J said:


> ..I can point out we also ran 1.95" X 26", high durometer tires, with 50psi on rigid bikes, on "sick ass trails". Perhaps we should debate that too?


no, but i'm also not suggesting that someone who still rides said setup isn't really riding...


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> no, but i'm also not suggesting that someone who still rides said setup isn't really riding...


Oh, that... Well, I suppose I was tryin' to be silly. Wasn't meant to be taken literally.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Weight wise...tuned up coil shock > riser post


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Aren't all the benefits of anything and everything over exaggerated on the forums?


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Miker J said:


> Oh, that... Well, I suppose I was tryin' to be silly. Wasn't meant to be taken literally.


fair enough. posts edited accordingly...


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Front tires are a crutch. Everyone should ride unicycles.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

net wurker said:


> Front tires are a crutch. Everyone should ride unicycles.


Or learn the proper wheelie and manual techniques...


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

To each their own. I use my dropper as much as I did the shifter it replaced. I even have them on bikes that have no shifters. Bonus; you can lower your seat and sit on your bike while taking a break while everyone else is straddling their top tube.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Cornfield said:


> Or learn the proper wheelie and manual techniques...


Can you say...Katz?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I thought we had a dropper forum.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Most of the folks with whom I ride have them, but I haven't converted. I have demoed a bunch of bikes with droppers and even raced one, but have found that they don't seem to be a benefit for my type of riding and my terrain. Maybe if I were more into riding places with big features it would be different.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Back in 1997 I started to use a Hite Rite to drop my saddle, something I used to do back in the 80's. I again fell in love with having something to drop and raise my seatpost to its original height, and wondered why I did stop using one for 10 years. I decided to and made a couple of Hite Rites that would work with modern frame designs( separate seat collar, instead of a brazed on collar) so the seatpost wouldn't rotate. In 2000, I came up with a plan to introduce a now converted Hite Rite, so I gave Joe Breeze ( mtb legend and Hite Rite patent holder) about my idea. He liked it and we figured on $5 a piece for the HR's that he had in storage, but said he needed to talk to his partner about my plan... anyway, the plan didn't work, so after some thought, I made a " modern day" adjustable seatpost and called it the Elevator Shaft, which I made a very small run back in 2001/2002. I sold my company, Hurricane Components, later on in 2002 and foolishly shelved the project. A couple of years later Gravity Dropper was introduced claiming to the first...
Anyways after all that, the reason I didn't make a bigger production of the Elevator Shaft was because of all the negative comments, such as, " I'm fixing a problem that doesn't exist, or " your making something simple complex" or " too heavy, or " it cost too much" they were $200 back then. I knew the benefits back then, but trying to convince the riders back then was brutal!


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

lol at this thread and stirring up everyone haha

For me, i hate, HATE it when the seat is dropped, it feels completely wrong and weirds me out. SO my dropper sits in the spare parts bin, it'll get put back on if I'm going somewhere I've never ridden and really am unsure of the terrain, have done that a couple of times and happy I did... but my normal riding it's rare that I ever think I wish I had the dropper, well never and maybe that means I'm riding tame trails or something but meh I ride what I enjoy.

For me 99% of the time a dropper not necessary.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm with Seth on this one... I'd lose the front brake, before going w/o my DP ^^

Sent from my kltedv using Tapatalk


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I've got a bike with and without a dropper. I do see where the dropper comes in handy. I don't use it at every feature I come upon...but do use it on long descents. My XC bike is the one without the dropper...and don't plan on getting one anytime soon.

What I do find odd about the dropper is that I can't drop the saddle all the way down out of the way. I feels real weird to not feel the saddle between my legs...so when I do use the dropper...I don't slam it all the way down.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

^ yeah a really sort travel dropper I could live with, like 75mm, but longer than that, it doesn't feel right at all.

This is what I also found back in the 90's DH?XC racing. Same bike you'd just put the seat down, but I couldn't put it down far, maybe an inch or so, anything more felt weird/uncomfortable.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> sucks to be you...


Nah, life's good. 



David R said:


> If you don't think a dropper post is the best thing since sliced bread, you probably need to ride steeper, more technical trails...


FTFY.



bob13bob said:


> you skipped races because you wouldn't ride a regular seatpost? or you dropper broke which caused you not being able to race?


Never said race. It's only happened once or twice that I can recall, but I was waiting on a warranty Reverb to come in and talked myself out of riding in part because I'd have to use a rigid post. Not like I skipped some mega-awesome weekend ride, it was just a weekday hour ride.



_CJ said:


> This is my singular problem with droppers, or more accurately with some of the people who use them. You guys are almost as evangelical as fat bikers. "Bro!...where's your dropper? How can you ride without a dropper!?!? You gotta get a dropper bro!!!"
> 
> Thanks, but no thanks Inspector Gadget.


I'm probably guilty of this. I'm the same way with full suspension. Maybe it's just because I was a late adopter of both thinking I wouldn't like them, I feel the need to preach the gospel of both to atone for my years as a heathen.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

HPIguy said:


> Bonus; you can lower your seat and sit on your bike while taking a break while everyone else is straddling their top tube.


This!


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I rode without one for decades, like many folks here. Got one about 5 years ago or so. At this point, it's down enough that I think of it as a "riser post" rather than a dropper post. After going to Moab countless times, my first visit there with my riser post was eye opening....it changed the experience significantly and for the better. Because of my bike's geometry and my short legs, I can only use a 100 mm dropper and initially, it seemed like too much. Now I wish I could fit a 150 on the bike. Haven't tried one? Don't like them? Then don't use them. I'm keeping mine!


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

So you can see where I'm coming from my XC bike is a Knolly Endorphin 130mm coil/150mm Pike

I do however feel this is too far. Should urban bikes have dropper posts? - BikeRadar USA


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Travis Bickle said:


> So you can see where I'm coming from my XC bike is a Knolly Endorphin 130mm coil/150mm Pike
> 
> I do however feel this is too far. Should urban bikes have dropper posts? - BikeRadar USA


When I ride my MTB in town I always drop the post when cruising through intersections. Looks gangsta.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

TheDwayyo said:


> When I ride my MTB in town I always drop the post when cruising through intersections. Looks gangsta.


I see a homeless dude in my neighorhood that rides a mountain bike with NO post. He even rides it uphill. I am gonna try to snap a photo of it one day.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I want a dropper on my road bike. 75mm is all I need.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Some times on long seated descents I'll leave the saddle dropped gangsta style. It's more restful than the head down/butt up position.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Nat said:


> Some times on long seated descents I'll leave the saddle dropped gangsta style. It's more restful than the head down/butt up position.


So you go through all the fuss, trouble and bother of hitting the thumb remote to do that? Then, if you decide you want the seat a tad higher, you go through all that trouble again?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nat said:


> Some times on long seated descents I'll leave the saddle dropped gangsta style. It's more restful than the head down/butt up position.***sarcasm***





net wurker said:


> So you go through all the fuss, trouble and bother of hitting the thumb remote to do that? Then, if you decide you want the seat a tad higher, you go through all that trouble again?


I fixed that.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

What was sarcasm, the "some times" part? My seat is ALWAYS slammed on the descents.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

MSU Alum said exactly what what I was thinking last night in post #74; if I had one I'd prolly leave it down and only raise it when I needed to sit and spin.

Riser post FTW!


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Seat posts and saddles are a crutch. From the Ibis website.

"PLUMLINE OUTBACK ULTIMATE KAMIKAZE RACE
The precursor to the Mammoth Kamikaze, one of the most legendary mountain bike race series we’ve ever seen, was the Plumline Outback Ultimate Kamikaze. If memory serves us it was a three stage event, including a downhill that ended in Bishop, an observed trials stage and a cross country race. Scot won the overall that year. The next year the whole race moved to Mammoth, and was called the Plumline 7500, a 50 mile race that got above 11,000 feet. The most memorable part of that event was Cindy Whitehead breaking her seatpost 1 mile into the race and doing the next 49 standing up… then won the race."


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

net wurker said:


> What was sarcasm, the "some times" part? My seat is ALWAYS slammed on the descents.


I could be wrong but I assumed his whole post was being sarcastic. But you know where assumptions gets ya.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

i'm working on dropper crank arms. then i can adjust the amount of leverage i'm putting down and ditch the whole derailleur/shifter/cassette headache...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Travis Bickle said:


> Seat posts and saddles are a crutch. From the Ibis website.
> 
> "PLUMLINE OUTBACK ULTIMATE KAMIKAZE RACE
> The precursor to the Mammoth Kamikaze, one of the most legendary mountain bike race series we've ever seen, was the Plumline Outback Ultimate Kamikaze. If memory serves us it was a three stage event, including a downhill that ended in Bishop, an observed trials stage and a cross country race. Scot won the overall that year. The next year the whole race moved to Mammoth, and was called the Plumline 7500, a 50 mile race that got above 11,000 feet. The most memorable part of that event was Cindy Whitehead breaking her seatpost 1 mile into the race and doing the next 49 standing up&#8230; then won the race."


What year was that? I was at that race on several occasions from the early nineties through the late nineties.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

That was 85 according to the t-shirt.

https://www.ibiscycles.com/about/303030/6_apple_orchard_days/

I remember reading about it back in the 80's, and I didn't start riding until 87.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I could be wrong but I assumed his whole post was being sarcastic. But you know where assumptions gets ya.


It's kinda ironic that the second post you quoted was the one dripping with sarcasm.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> What year was that? I was at that race on several occasions from the early nineties through the late nineties.


1986
Photo of her riding without her seat on this page:
Cindy Whitehead

Her recap of the race here:
https://mmbhof.org/cindy-whitehead-buccowich/


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Travis Bickle said:


> That was 85 according to the t-shirt.
> 
> https://www.ibiscycles.com/about/303030/6_apple_orchard_days/
> 
> I remember reading about it back in the 80's, and I didn't start riding until 87.


Before my time, that race was quite a spectacle back in the day. We used to hike up the mountain to the best technicle fastest points of the race and spectate old geometry hitting Mach I. Many a gnar crash was witnessed.



net wurker said:


> It's kinda ironic that the second post you quoted was the one dripping with sarcasm.


Oops, went right over my head, sorry. So both posts were sarcastic. :thumbsup:


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

net wurker said:


> So you go through all the fuss, trouble and bother of hitting the thumb remote to do that? Then, if you decide you want the seat a tad higher, you go through all that trouble again?


What else am I going to do with my thumb? Twitter?



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I fixed that.


Thanks DJ. You get me.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

sgltrak said:


> 1986
> Photo of her riding without her seat on this page:
> Cindy Whitehead
> 
> ...


Awesome! I saw her at the top three races on this list. Also at the Norba Nationals in Big Bear during that time frame.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

sgltrak said:


> 1986
> Photo of her riding without her seat on this page:
> Cindy Whitehead


The last pic on that page


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

jeremy283 said:


> I also noticed my bunny hops at high speed and drops were much better executed. I think having the seat it normal height helps me aim the bike better in the air.
> 
> Just my thoughts.


How come these riders don't have any devices ride to help their aim while in the air? The how to bunny hop videos don't seem to have elevated seat aiming tools either.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

You just have to get used to not controlling the saddle with your thighs. It felt odd for me at first too, but I've adapted and feel more in control with the saddle dropped. Maybe having ridden BMX when I was a kid helped?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

"Elevated seat aiming tools"
:lol::lol:


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## jeremy283 (Jan 22, 2017)

bitflogger said:


> How come these riders don't have any devices ride to help their aim while in the air? The how to bunny hop videos don't seem to have elevated seat aiming tools either.


I'm running 27.5 and they're probably on what? 26?

I'm running 160mm travel full suspension. What do they run? Hardtail 100-120mm if any at all.

I'm not saying you need the seat to jump but for me I think it may actually help me when it's not slammed. --- just like some swear by clipless cause they want to be "attached" to the bike the seat at my standard ride height provides me another point of contact to keep my bike in control.

How did mountain bikers survive before the dropper post?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> "Elevated seat aiming tools"
> :lol::lol:


"Buttbars."


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nat said:


> You just have to get used to not controlling the saddle with your thighs. It felt odd for me at first too, but I've adapted and feel more in control with the saddle dropped. Maybe having ridden BMX when I was a kid helped?


Yep, that's my problem. Learning and riding for so long without a dropper. I'm used to having some control via thigh and seat interaction. When the seat is dropped it's a strange sensation that just takes getting used to. That's probably why I opt not to drop the seat for high speed cornering and only for steep tech descents.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yep, that's my problem. Learning and riding for so long without a dropper. I'm used to having some control via thigh and seat interaction. When the seat is dropped it's a strange sensation that just takes getting used to. That's probably why I opt not to drop the seat for high speed cornering and only for steep tech descents.


The first couple of times I slammed the saddle and jammed through a tech section I thought I was going to fall right off the bike! Where's the saddle???


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

jeremy283 said:


> I'm running 27.5 and they're probably on what? 26?
> 
> I'm running 160mm travel full suspension. What do they run? Hardtail 100-120mm if any at all.
> 
> ...


In the 1960s and 70s we used a wrench to drop our seats. It was a bother with Sting Ray banana seats and I recall putting a Typhoon seat on for a trial that didn't work so well.

My original StumpJumper had a Hite Rite. Modern droppers sure solved the shortcomings there.









I don't have a 160 mm 27.5 but have those wheels, 29r, fat and heirloom wheels between a bunch of bikes. Dropper posts with two wheel sizes.

My bike engine's really the most important but having a Thompson dropper on a bike that otherwise has nothing better than Deore shows how I value the dropper.

You don't need it but now I'm even seeing racers with them along with modest prices to have me think the I'm not alone feeling they do a lot for riding.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

The whole gripping with your thighs thing is bad technique anyway, so I don't see the argument... Watch the pros in all disciplines of MTB, they're legs are bowed out to allow the bike to move under them.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

TheDwayyo said:


> The whole gripping with your thighs thing is bad technique anyway, so I don't see the argument... Watch the pros in all disciplines of MTB, they're legs are bowed out to allow the bike to move under them.


Depends on the situation really. I don't think either one of us said "gripping the saddle with your thighs". I said it's a strange sensation when the saddle is down having been used to using it as leverage with your thighs at times in the up position. There us no set riding technique that should be cemented into every individual. All have their own technique/s, even the pros.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

TheDwayyo said:


> The whole gripping with your thighs thing is bad technique anyway, so I don't see the argument... Watch the pros in all disciplines of MTB, they're legs are bowed out to allow the bike to move under them.


the legs are bowed, but their inner upper thighs still use the seat as a leverage point...


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

Had a 429SL last fall/winter with a dropper, first bike ever with one and I was stoked. Used it a few times on 3 different trails but never saw the advantage.
To me Dropper = Meh.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Depends on the situation really. I don't think either one of us said "gripping the saddle with your thighs". I said it's a strange sensation when the saddle is down having been used to using it as leverage with your thighs at times in the up position. There us no set riding technique that should be cemented into every individual. All have their own technique/s, even the pros.


Ya I guess I shouldn't have made such a blanket statement, but I stand behind the idea that what you feel like you're losing (leverage on thighs) when switching to a dropper is in fact an undesirable habit. Now when I descend (should have said that's really what I'm referring to) I let the bike move and the seat only touches my leg if I really have to lean it over in a tough corner.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

1990s dropping off logs and stuff, getting punched in the gut by the saddle; not anymore.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

FullBladdy said:


> I can see how taller riders may not see as much of an advantage but for my 5'10" frame it works especially well on my 29er.


I find the exact opposite. I'm 6' 2" and all legs, which means very high saddle height. So getting the saddle down and out of the way is very important to lowering my higher center of gravity when riding aggressively.

Even with 30 mm of spacers under my stem and a riser bar my saddle height at full climbing extension is waaay higher than my stem.

The last time one of these "you don't need a dropper" threads came up, I did a google search to try to find a picture of a downhill bike with the saddle run higher than the bars, and couldn't find one. (I'm sure some [email protected]$$ will now find a picture of a DH bike with a long XC post stuffed in it from a "can you climb on a DH bike thread).

My local trails have a lot of very steep extended descents, and in terms of riding position on the downhills, I want to be in the same low c.g. attack position whether I'm on my DH bike, my all mountain FS bike, or my hardtail.

So.....for me, that means dropper post, or lowering the saddle manually in the pre-dropper era.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I like my sourdough bread non sliced, thank you.


I know right? Slicing sourdough? Who does that? Just rip a hunk off and go to town.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Thighs gripping seat isn't control.... It's called hanging on 
;-P

The bike should dance below you whilst you shred... in the air is no different (unless you're a whipoff king).

To be truly free, one must let go...

Sent from my kltedv using Tapatalk


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I thought we had a dropper forum.


We did.....then the Mods decided it nobody really needed a dropper forum.

I'll show myself out now.


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

I love my dropper and frequently hit it for 3-10 second stretches of trail. When people don't run one I wonder how/why, but I try to keep it to myself. I rode without one for a long time.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I had fun once. It was terrible.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

twd953 said:


> We did.....then the Mods decided it nobody really needed a dropper forum.
> 
> I'll show myself out now.


I was so surprised when they created a dropper forum. So surprised was I that when it went away I was surprised I didn't miss it for close to a year.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

the_joe said:


> The last pic on that page


Man, you are not kidding. That is one hot picture.

Also, to the OP, if you don't like a dropper, don't ride with a dropper. If you like the dropper, ride with the dropper. But for christ sake don't say over exaggerated! Exaggerated is enough. Kinda like being strangled to death...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Vespasianus said:


> Also, to the OP, if you don't like a dropper, don't ride with a dropper. If you like the dropper, ride with the dropper. But for christ sake don't say over exaggerated! Exaggerated is enough. Kinda like being strangled to death...


Well, that was as a bit over exaggerated, don't ya think?


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

"I'm gonna kill you to death!"


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I ran into a DH coach (not literally) at a bike park 10 years ago. He told me that the only parts that should contact the bike are your hands and feet. That whole thigh gripping thing is just high poster BS😉


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

_CJ said:


> This is my singular problem with droppers, or more accurately with some of the people who use them. You guys are almost as evangelical as fat bikers. "Bro!...where's your dropper? How can you ride without a dropper!?!? You gotta get a dropper bro!!!"
> .


I like to paint myself more "pro good technique" than purely pro-dropper.

Almost without fail, when someone says they prefer a rigid post at full extension, they are crappy mtb bike pilot - even worse, they don't know it. Key areas to look for: stiff and rigid posture on the bike, half commited "attack" position, sub optimal/wrong body weighting for/aft, baked in hesitation due to antcipating saddle interference, attemps to control bike by saddle with thighs...

There is a subset of dropper deniers, guys who rock lower settings than pedaling height. More likely to be a decent bike handler but may not be great pedalers or make you wait to futz with their gear.

The dropper is a great, practical tool that allows us to realize proper bike position, on the fly, thereby increasing our performance and technique on both ends of the spectrum - positions for pedaling at extension and safe/correct handling positioning for any trail feature. If it weren't for our flawed human biases, fear and identity - there'd be no debate here.

Sometimes I ride my moto and try to imagine what that would be like with the seat 1 foot higher... demonstratably limiting and more dangerous - & baffling that a mountain biker would choose this set-up.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Dropper post deniers reek of insecurity.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> Dropper post deniers reek of insecurity.


Well, that was a bit over exaggerated, don't ya think?


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> Sometimes I ride my moto and try to imagine what that would be like with the seat 1 foot higher... demonstratably limiting and more dangerous - & baffling that a mountain biker would choose this set-up.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Some guys manage riding without a dropper...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Ass rub to the Maximus.


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## justwan naride (Oct 13, 2008)

Ι actually use my dropper on techy climbs. A couple of cm's lower than pedalling height is nice when you need to just "hover" over the saddle or just use some extra body language to climb up ledges, pop and generally convince the bike to go over obstacles.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

My trails have 30+ degree slopes, so I need to get as far down/back as possible just to stay on the bike. It's also a factor of bike setup and stack height. I like my bars 4-5 inches below my seat on trail bikes. Being able to get the seat lower than the bars for descending necessitates a long dropper.
6'4" with a 35.5 inseam.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

.westcoasthucker. said:


> the legs are bowed, but their inner upper thighs still use the seat as a leverage point...


twss.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Cornfield said:


> Some guys manage riding without a dropper...


A great pic (trials) and opportunity for me get back on my soapbox.

For all intents and purposes, saddles have nothing to do with control. They exist on our bikes because it's more efficient (easier) to support our body mass using skeletal structure vs. muscles (legs, core, shoulders, arms, etc). That's it. If you are on the saddle, you're either actively or passively "resting" in relation maintaining your position. If they're fixed height, it also allows us to find (and maintain) a very good position for pedaling quickly and repeatedly when we return from a control position.

But - when you need to maximize control over efficency - they are a hinderance. Like a dirt bike, almost all your control positions are off the saddle and since terrain and situations are dynamic - being able to move around the cockpit (am I allowed to use that term?) freely is essential to maximizing control.

Droppers allow you to pick your orientation at will - pedaling efficency vs. control and all gradients. If you are an all-around trail rider (pedal/control), this should be important to you - or at least curious. But the best part is - we now have a tool that completely enables this. I've been riding mountain bikes since Moses wore short pants; we used to dream "man, I wish the saddle would disappear when I went downhill and magically reappear when I needed to pedal". We have that now so it's hard to grok the negativity around this amazing device.

tl;dr:


The foundation of bike control starts with integrity in your position. High saddle height impedes optimium positioning

Pedaling efficiency is greatly enhanced by a proper height saddle

Being able to accomodate your need, at a will, is nice.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Well, that was a bit over exaggerated, don't ya think?


I don't always post before my morning coffee kicks in, but when I do...


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

I find the I can get low and over the back of the bike without one comments to be telling. To me one of my favorite things is to be able to be low and still be centered over the bike, off the back is not always where you need to be when low. Then at the start of the next hill I'm back in sit and spin mode. 

Also, good for starting out on hills or lowering when coming to a planned stop. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> I don't always post before my morning coffee kicks in, but when I do...


Well, that was a bit over exaggerated, don't ya think?


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Well, that was a bit over exaggerated, don't ya think?


Keep it up and I'm gonna come over there and break your ankle. Then I'll expect you to hop around on one foot till you heal up, because crutches are a crutches.

That better? :ciappa:


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

Cornfield said:


> Dropper post deniers reek of insecurity.


 yeah, you're right. the majority of pro racers and their teams of mechanics are insecure as fuk. That's why they chose an easy job and path in life.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

bob13bob said:


> yeah, you're right. the majority of pro racers and their teams of mechanics are insecure as fuk. That's why they chose an easy job and path in life.


lol! What does that have to do with dropper posts?

*Edit: I think you're responding to my post in the "Why work for the LBS" thread. The comment I made over there was purely in jest, not meant to be taken as my view on the matter.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Bob, here's a tip. When posting publicly on the Internet, people will tend to take your opinion more seriously if you use proper spelling, punctuation, capitalization and grammar.

Just FYI, do with this information as you wish.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Ward, don't ya think you were s little rough on the Beaver [Bob] last night?


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

I don't see everyone getting off their bikes after a long steep climb to drop the saddle these days like I used to. I wonder why, hmmmm.....

Of course it's not over exaggerated. I like long leg extension on climbs but it's a pain on steep, fast, downhill rollers. A lower saddle definitely makes it easier to rail tight corners on the down too.

This reminds me of the days when people said shaped and wider skis were cheating and that beginners needed to learn the hard way on skinny straight skis. Pfffttt... whatever.

A lot of it might have to do with where people ride, obviously (maybe already mentioned to lazy to read thread). Sure, if you are biking lower elevation rolling trails, no bigee. Climbing 2000+ feet and then dropping down? You bet it helps.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

BumpityBump said:


> I don't see everyone getting off their bikes after a long steep climb to drop the saddle these days like I used to. I wonder why, hmmmm.....
> 
> Of course it's not over exaggerated. I like long leg extension on climbs but it's a pain on steep, fast, downhill rollers. A lower saddle definitely makes it easier to rail tight corners on the down too.
> 
> ...


It helps even on that stuff, lower elevation rolling trails. Makes the bike more maneuverable and also allows for a more efficient and larger pump. Pumping is towards the back of the bike is less efficient than straight down.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

Cornfield said:


> lol! What does that have to do with dropper posts?
> 
> *Edit: I think you're responding to my post in the "Why work for the LBS" thread. The comment I made over there was purely in jest, not meant to be taken as my view on the matter.


vast majority of pro racers don't use droppers. they are dropper post deniers. I'm making fun of your statement.

there are benefits and drawbacks to droppers. Some people are so fanatical about their newest spendy "upgrade" they can't admit that. Not saying you shouldn't buy one, but you def should not spend on one if you're still on a budget coil fork. they weigh a lot for a bike post, and one of the most failure prone devices on your bike (newest tech, to be expected).


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

net wurker said:


> Bob, here's a tip. When posting publicly on the Internet, people will tend to take your opinion more seriously if you use proper spelling, punctuation, capitalization and grammar.
> 
> Just FYI, do with this information as you wish.


 yeah, but it takes too much of my time to do that. I rather spend that on bringing data points to the discussion than telling lies slickly. I'll let marketing propaganda take care of that.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

bob13bob said:


> vast majority of pro racers don't use droppers. they are dropper post deniers. I'm making fun of your statement.
> 
> there are benefits and drawbacks to droppers. Some people are so fanatical about their newest spendy "upgrade" they can't admit that. Not saying you shouldn't buy one, but you def should not spend on one if you're still on a budget coil fork. they weigh a lot for a bike post, and one of the most failure prone devices on your bike (newest tech, to be expected).


That comment was aimed at people who like to tell others they don't need the latest gadget and should learn proper technique.

I say do whatever makes you happy.

And I agree with your points about droppers. I don't even own one, yet...


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

bob13bob said:


> vast majority of pro racers don't use droppers. they are dropper post deniers. I'm making fun of your statement.
> 
> there are benefits and drawbacks to droppers. Some people are so fanatical about their newest spendy "upgrade" they can't admit that. Not saying you shouldn't buy one, but you def should not spend on one if you're still on a budget coil fork. they weigh a lot for a bike post, and one of the most failure prone devices on your bike (newest tech, to be expected).


The vast majority of pro racers whose discipline can make use of a dropper do use them. XC is getting to where one might be an advantage over the weight but it's not there on all courses. Those courses are also hardly indicative of what the average rider rides. Downhillers are never going to sit and spin during a race run so why use one.

Now let's talk about the usage of them during Enduro, multi-hour rides, trails that are similar to what most people see, sure there are sections of EWS that are insane but not all.

It's a tool, and for the general population on general trails it makes sense. Pulling in highly specialized examples to poke fun is just as ironic as what you were trying to point out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

bob13bob said:


> vast majority of pro racers don't use droppers. they are dropper post deniers. I'm making fun of your statement.
> 
> there are benefits and drawbacks to droppers. Some people are so fanatical about their newest spendy "upgrade" they can't admit that. Not saying you shouldn't buy one, but you def should not spend on one if you're still on a budget coil fork. they weigh a lot for a bike post, and one of the most failure prone devices on your bike (newest tech, to be expected).


Yep! 
Failure prone and heavier than a bean N' cheese burrito. Other than that they're a great addition.  Oh, and they look cool.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yep!
> Failure prone and heavier than a bean N' cheese burrito. Other than that they're a great addition.  Oh, and they look cool.


Speaking of over exaggeration.


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## spartus (Jun 26, 2009)

I'd rather not have one due to extra weight, cost and that many more little parts that could break. However, due to a back injury, I finally put one on the bike and think it is terrific. Not sure I'm any faster than with a rigid post, but getting my center of gravity lower sure makes riding more fun. Feels like a different bike.


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## drew2388 (May 19, 2009)

They make a huge difference and make descents safer and easier to control than being all the way up. And anyone that doesn't want to deal with failure of the post and expensive rebuilds get a gravity dropper. I have three and if they don't go down or up you just hit them a few times and grease them.


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## kiwi_matt (Jul 25, 2008)

They are over rated, they're another thing to maintain and add unnecessary weight. I have one, but it's not the be all and end all. It's greatest benefit for me is that I can just slam the seat down instead of fiddling with the seat.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

richde said:


> Speaking of over exaggeration.


Good catch, few are on point lately.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

I didn't realize a seat post could be so complicated. I just push a button and it will go up or down.


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## Bakudan (May 19, 2011)

jeremy283 said:


> It's good to see insight regarding droppers. Nearly everyone swears by them but the potential for failures is another reason I have not taken the plunge.


I went 4 years of riding before having a malfunction on my dropper. Cable finally snapped. Wasn't a big deal. I just had to stop and actuate it with my hand. Next day bought a cheap shift cable and was back in business. Only maintenance is a little wipe down and a little lube like once a month.

For me it's convenience. When I'm out riding I don't want to fiddle with my seatpost height.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Broke my lever in a crash today. Put a damper on my ride 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## Buzzaro (Jan 27, 2008)

jeremy283 said:


> It's good to see insight regarding droppers. Nearly everyone swears by them but the potential for failures is another reason I have not taken the plunge.


I feel the same way about pneumatic tires.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

leeboh said:


> I might demo one, maybe. So, MA rider here. Lots of punchy shorts climbs and ridges here. Do ya'll really drop the post for 3 turns or 30-50 ft of decent? Seem to do just fine without. Next you'll tell me disc and tubeless are good( JK, that **** rocks!)


CT here. Have a dropper on my XC bike that gets ridden everywhere but the bike park. It's not that I can't ride without it, but I am faster both up and down. I actually find it more useful for larger obstacles when going up, logs that are big enough to grind chainring on and the like. I can stay in a neutral body position and move the bike up farther than I move without having to dodge the seat. Great for all those power moves getting up on granite too.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Sometimes they seem a worthy addition.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Before droppers I'd just stop and raise or lower the saddle. Adding a dropper didn't add any functionality I didn't have before, it just saves me from stopping.

People make it out like posts can't be raised or lowered without a dropper. You get the same thing with a QR collar, it's just a pain in the ass.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

One Pivot said:


> Before droppers I'd just stop and raise or lower the saddle. Adding a dropper didn't add any functionality I didn't have before, it just saves me from stopping.
> 
> People make it out like posts can't be raised or lowered without a dropper. You get the same thing with a QR collar, it's just a pain in the ass.


No, you really don't. It's an either or decision when it comes to doing it that way over rolling trailing. A dropper gives you the ability to cycle rapidly over multiple times as the situation requires without the need to stop.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

One Pivot said:


> Before droppers I'd just stop and raise or lower the saddle. Adding a dropper didn't add any functionality I didn't have before, it just saves me from stopping.
> 
> People make it out like posts can't be raised or lowered without a dropper. You get the same thing with a QR collar, it's just a pain in the ass.





tuckerjt07 said:


> No, you really don't. It's an either or decision when it comes to doing it that way over rolling trailing. A dropper gives you the ability to cycle rapidly over multiple times as the situation requires without the need to stop.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Huh? One Pivot mentioned the way we used to do it before droppers. Or for those that don't have them they can use a quick release and stop to lower and adjust accordingly.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Huh? One Pivot mentioned the way we used to do it before droppers. Or for those that don't have them they can use a quick release and stop to lower and adjust accordingly.


"You get the same thing with a quick release collar, it's just a pain in the ass."

No, you don't. Unless you are talented enough that you can loosen the collar, drop the post, float over roots, send a 5' drop, land it, raise the post, straighten the seat, clamp it, and sit and begin climbing in a span of 15ish seconds while traveling at 10+mph. If so, I'd love to see it. You have skills that are on a different level than 99.9% of riders.

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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

tuckerjt07 said:


> "You get the same thing with a quick release collar, it's just a pain in the ass."
> 
> No, you don't. Unless you are talented enough that you can loosen the collar, drop the post, float over roots, send a 5' drop, land it, raise the post, straighten the seat, clamp it, and sit and begin climbing in a span of 15ish seconds while traveling at 10+mph. If so, I'd love to see it. You have skills that are on a different level than 99.9% of riders.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Yeah if you want to get technical. I caught on to what he was saying as did any other sane person with an ounce of common sense.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yeah if you want to get technical. I caught on to what he was saying as did any other sane person.


Except what he is saying is fundamentally flawed. It hinges on the benefits of a dropper being down for descents and up for flat and climbs which is not the case. Using a dropper is nothing like using a quick release. A road bike is a bike just like a downhill bike is a bike but both are two different things when examined closely.

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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Except what he is saying is fundamentally flawed. It hinges on the benefits of a dropper being down for descents and up for flat and climbs which is not the case. Using a dropper is nothing like using a quick release. A road bike is a bike just like a downhill bike is a bike but both are two different things when examined closely.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


And we all ride two wheels for fun hopefully. Why do we have to argue about the stupidest **** with every new or old aspect of the sport?


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> And we all ride two wheels for fun hopefully. Why do we have to argue about the stupidest **** with every new or old aspect of the sport?


Why do we interject red herrings when a debate is going against us?

An answer in the vein of the discussion. For someone that has never used a dropper it would be easy to be swayed by those who are not using it correctly or to the fullest of its potential. Thus they may not buy one and therefore not be able to ride at their most optimum level.

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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

One Pivot said:


> Before droppers I'd just stop and raise or lower the saddle. Adding a dropper didn't add any functionality I didn't have before, it just saves me from stopping.
> 
> People make it out like posts can't be raised or lowered without a dropper. You get the same thing with a QR collar, it's just a pain in the ass.


That's true. Just thankful that I don't have to reach down to drop my post. Or to move the derailleur to a different gear.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

JACKL said:


> That's true. Just thankful that I don't have to reach down to drop my post. Or to move the derailleur to a different gear.


I lived the quick release dropper method. I'm glad I never lived the latter of the two.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Why do we interject red herrings when a debate is going against us?
> 
> An answer in the vein of the discussion. For someone that has never used a dropper it would be easy to be swayed by those who are not using it correctly or to the fullest of its potential. Thus they may not buy one and therefore not be able to ride at their most optimum level.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


maybe people just get sick of the "if you don't do what I do, ride the way I ride, ride the terrain I ride and use the equipment I use, then you are doing it wrong and clearly aren't a mtber like I am" and just give up and exit the argument.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

justwan naride said:


> Ι actually use my dropper on techy climbs. A couple of cm's lower than pedalling height is nice when you need to just "hover" over the saddle or just use some extra body language to climb up ledges, pop and generally convince the bike to go over obstacles.


Or sometimes a crazy tight uphill switchback even.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

mik_git said:


> maybe people just get sick of the "if you don't do what I do, ride the way I ride, ride the terrain I ride and use the equipment I use, then you are doing it wrong and clearly aren't a mtber like I am" and just give up and exit the argument.


Pretty much this. ^^^ But what would MTBR be without the endless arguing over minutia?


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

Absalon with dropper at Nove Mesto


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

the_joe said:


> View attachment 1138427
> 
> 
> Absalon with dropper at Nove Mesto


yeah absalom has been using a dropper for... at least a year maybe? He's great on the hills and a great DH rider too...but he's not as good going down a Schurter so had to do something to up his game...enter dropper. Schurter on the other hand, best descender in the field, doesn't use one.
Which of course just means run what you think is will work for you.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Next time you pull up to the trailhead on your dropper-equipped bike, find someone without a dropper, drop your post and circle them, then give them the stink-eye.

Non-dropper guys should do the same. Might be a few awkward moments while you fumble with the qr, but those fancy boys with their expensive droppers will be indimidated none the less.

Then maybe start doing one of the dances from West Side Story.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

JACKL said:


> Next time you pull up to the trailhead on your dropper-equipped bike, find someone without a dropper, drop your post and circle them, then give them the stink-eye.
> 
> Non-dropper guys should do the same. Might be a few awkward moments while you fumble with the qr, but those fancy boys with their expensive droppers will be indimidated none the less.
> 
> Then maybe start doing one of the dances from West Side Story.


A bit over exaggerated, don't ya think?


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

The last time I adjusted seat height on any of my mountain bikes during a ride was late 1988. The ability to do so with all of the dropper equipped demos I've ridden did not improve my ride significantly enough to make the switch. Even racing with one didn't change my mind. 
The smiles per dollar return on investment is not high enough with a dropper. On the high end of the dropper price range, installing one would increase the investment I made in some of my bikes by 50% or more. 
15 years in the bike industry offered me ample opportunity to try a ton of new things as they came out, and to settle on things that work really well in spite of popular opinion. Now that I am out I still try new things, but still review them with a critical eye toward their benefits to my riding style and terrain.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

The only thing over exaggerated, is the h8 o_0 

Sent from my kltedv using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

targnik said:


> The only thing over exaggerated, is the h8 o_0
> 
> Sent from my kltedv using Tapatalk


Or deciphering that mumbo jumbo.


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## tedroy (Mar 17, 2005)

I'm still using a flip phone, so maybe I'm not the early adopter type. That said, I relish the chance to stop and change the seat height. I need a friggin' rest. I raise it about an inch for road and drop it back down for the trail. Sometimes I drop it 2 inches for long downhill sections. And those fancy posts are a bit spendy. I'd rather save up for some spiffy wheels.


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## nogod (May 30, 2009)

A dropper seat is for those that ride with their seat to high for where they are riding.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Not going down this with MY saddle up. You are welcome to


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Miker J said:


> This^^^
> 
> If you ain't ridin' with a dropper... then you ain't ridin'.
> 
> Hold on a second. Am I in the Rails to Trails - Hybrid Bike forum?


If you can't ride without a dropper, you can't ride.

Used one for a year or so on New England trails. I think they're overrated. 
Sitting in the parts pile now. I let people try it out if they're thinking of buying one. But for me, having a whole lot of years experience riding chunky tech and bony old-school DH, I don't need it. I also don't shift a helluva lot, or get excited about bike parts, so there's that.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

nogod said:


> A dropper seat is for those that don't want to sacrifice efficiency or safety for where they are riding.


FIFY

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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

slapheadmofo said:


> If you can't ride without a dropper, you can't ride.
> 
> Used one for a year or so on New England trails. I think they're overrated.
> Sitting in the parts pile now. I let people try it out if they're thinking of buying one. But for me, having a whole lot of years experience riding chunky tech and bony old-school DH, I don't need it. I also don't shift a helluva lot, or get excited about bike parts, so there's that.


What is "old school" DH? Is it Northstar back in the 2000s? South Mountain?


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

The last time I saw a pair of FS bikers with dropper posts, I was coming down a trail that they were climbing--they expressed their fear of going over the bars when they came back down, and I mentioned I didn't even drop my post for this descent, and explained to them that with dropper posts, that's so easy to do. EASY!

They looked at me as if I were some sort of alien, and plodded along.

It's almost like the talk on here has little correlation with reality, you know?


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

You gotta keep 'em exaggerated...


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Jayem said:


> What is "old school" DH? Is it Northstar back in the 2000s? South Mountain?


Mostly Sunday River (Maine) but also anywhere else in New England that ran lifts. Snow, Platte, etc, late 90s through the 00's. Before berms and 'flow' were a thing and it was all about fall lines and bony 'gnar'. Also spent a lot of my early years of XC riding hunting out stupid drops to flat and big rollers at places like Lynn Woods and 'Nam and all the other awesome granite-fests around here. The stuff people tend to throw up as examples of terrain "requiring" a dropped seat these days are in many cases pretty laughable.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

I wonder how many of the nay-sayers, tried a dropper and then rode exactly the same way/method they did with a rigid post and said "meh"?

Let's leave the outlier people out of the conversation for a minute - a huge benefit of the post is it *enables* you to use better position choices than before - but it doesn't force you. I know a lot of old dogs that are not learning new tricks without some concerted effort to break (bad) habits. 

If you are someone who is interested in improving your riding skills and you tried one and didn't get it - I'd talk to a technique/skills coach for their opinion and analysis of your riding - no need to listen to Mr. Mega or anyone else in this thread. Simply put, you may have a deeply ingrained habit and/or a blindspot that doesn't allow you to see what most of the other ethusiasts / races have found. That's ok - and just as it's also ok if you want to be one of those terminally blue run skiers. No one is forcing you.

Last tid-bit, to borrow from an old mediation saying - "If you are an expert, you should use your dropper every time you need to, unless you are a beginner, then you should use it twice as often." 

Coaching these days is at an all time high in terms of quality - unlike 20-30 years ago, people know how to ride - down to the minutiae - they know the hows, whys and how to teach it. It's awesome. If you are a beginner - yes, you can go through the hard-knocks school like many in this thread have, but you don't have to - you can progress faster, safer and realize more confidence and fun than the old-school. Getting that seat out of the way in your daily riding is going to reinforce your skills practice for positioning and allow you to do it confidently and safely on the trail vs. trying to avoid the damn saddle when learning a technique or how to address a feature and, ultimately try to unlearn the side-effect habit of saddle avoidance and the compromised positioning it promotes. Anyone who has coached or worked with someone who has ingrained bad habit knows how much harder it is to correct than greenfield teaching. My take: beginner mountain biking -> learn from a coach, use your dropper, once you have a strong grasp of positioning, then you can make the choice to use it or not.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

All good points; I've actually been recommending droppers to some of the newer guys I've been riding with. For me and a lot of the guys that have been at it a while though, they've ended up back on the shelf after a season or two.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Carl Mega said:


> I wonder how many of the nay-sayers, tried a dropper and then rode exactly the same way/method they did with a rigid post and said "meh"?
> 
> Let's leave the outlier people out of the conversation for a minute - a huge benefit of the post is it *enables* you to use better position choices than before - but it doesn't force you. I know a lot of old dogs that are not learning new tricks without some concerted effort to break (bad) habits.
> 
> ...


I think that's what many are trying to say. There is not necessarily a wrong way, but there is an optimum way. That's where the disagreements begin. When someone says I can raise or lower one a QR for climbs and descents so I don't need one. One of two things is the case: less than optimal usage or not the correct tool for conditions. That should not deter those for whom that's not the case.

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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

mik_git said:


> yeah absalom has been using a dropper for... at least a year maybe? He's great on the hills and a great DH rider too...but he's not as good going down a Schurter so had to do something to up his game...enter dropper. Schurter on the other hand, best descender in the field, doesn't use one.
> Which of course just means run what you think is will work for you.


That's a pretty good measuring stick: if you're not as skilled or equal to RA, go ahead with a dropper. If you're as good as NS, you won't need one.

Settled!


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

One Pivot said:


> Before droppers I'd just stop and raise or lower the saddle. Adding a dropper didn't add any functionality I didn't have before, it just saves me from stopping.
> 
> People make it out like posts can't be raised or lowered without a dropper. You get the same thing with a QR collar, it's just a pain in the ass.


Sure, if I lived somewhere with descents longer than 2 minutes. But I don't, its all just sharp and short up and down. Highest point in CT is 2,379 feet.... so yeah.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

I just ordered a cheap carbon seatpost to use here instead of my dropper. My trails just don't require a dropper but have short steep climbs so I'm trying to lighten my bike up a bit. My dropper will stay in my parts box for trips though.

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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

I'm going to sound a little critical for a moment but I'll pick a non-mtb comparison to keep the emotional reactions at bay.

When fat, shaped and rockered skis came out - many, many people grok'd them right off. But, there was a strong, vocal crowd that said "I tried them. Meh. They didn't really improve my [powder] skiing and they are [clumsy/heavy]. They don't match my skiing _*style*_."

*Style* is a kind euphemism here - and isn't the best word - skiing level or skiing limitation would actually fit better. The problem with above semi-strawman-skier is he was still in the backseat. A defensive position that was etched into his technique because they were used to rocking skinny 215s with no shape, float, crappy flex and learned how to survive in this equipment and eventually get good at a "work around skill" in a compromised technique but its so limiting. To really progress, you needed to be in the control position of the ski - hard driving and everything comes alive - skis lighten up, float with control - and, then, you can see the potential of what the equipment enables. Junky technique does not get automagically improved with gear - but good gear choices enable proper technique.

Another related tanget - "I can ski the same terrain without it".. Yeah, ok. So what? Maybe I get all yoga mindset when this comes up - but just clearing or riding terrain is sort of a poor measurement for me. Just as with yoga when you jam yourself into a posture with brute force outside of your intention isn't what you should be aiming for... Integrity in your ability to control - consistent with your intention is paramount. I'd rather "fail" 1000x with integrity vs. clearing something with brute force, speed and luck when I didn't do what I wanted - which was to assert my ability to control the bike/ski as I intended. Lumbering through and surviving isn't much of a accomplishment.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

It's so funny that when new technology comes along and makes bikes better a group will always resist it. The same think is happening with disk brakes on road bikes. Half the rides say they don't need or want the extra complexity of disks. The other half realize that for 90% of riding they are worth the weight and add a level of safety that was missing. Can't even rap my head around not wanting disks. Same thing happens in mountain bike too. Not many hold outs running canti's left alive.:skep:


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Thing is, you're comparing one minor component of a bike (seatpost) to the shaped skis; a more apt comparison would be comparing full bikes of different eras/types, ie old 'roadie style' mtbs to new-school bikes, with all the aggregate changes figured in. Not every one of those changes is a world shaker to every rider. 

Something minor like a dropper seatpost would be more like a different type of grip on your ski poles, or maybe a more flexible boot or something (I dunno, I'm not a skier and there are far less components so a really accurate comparison isn't possible). I know lots of people that don't bother with droppers, yet have been running disc brakes and FS since the 90s, myself included. It's not being a Luddite just for the sake of it; many of us have just found we don't have much use for them in our daily riding. Doesn't mean anybody else shouldn't use them if they like, but when people start going on like a bike without one is basically unrideable, or anyone who doesn't need one can't ride, they just sound like a pathetically obsessed gear weenies.


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## mrFreelancer (Apr 25, 2017)

net wurker said:


> Riding with the seat really high, legs at full extension, is absolutely great for climbing, and pedaling efficiently on flat terrain. But it sux ballz riding aggressively downhill, playful riding, popping off things and such with the seat like that.
> 
> Riding with the seat down, and out of the way, is great for cornering, riding aggressively, downhilling, steep stuff, etc. But it sux ballz trying to climb, or pedal efficiently on flat terrain with the seat like that.
> 
> If only there was a solution.


Awesome comment! So because my wife (the boss) hasn't told me to "go for it honey" in getting a dropper for my FS, I've learned to accommodate. So I have my seat positioned just right where I can easily (relatively) get behind it on steeps, or mostly use my full leg extension when needed. Until the boss gives me the go-ahead, this is the middle ground.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> Thing is, you're comparing one minor component of a bike (seatpost) to the shaped skis


I disagree - it's ok tho. Why I think they are similar is this: Both high seat posts and straightish skis made the sweet spot of positioning almost impossibly small, and most people developed bad habits because the equipment punished them if they weren't working around the gear - it became safer to have poor technique. Shaped/rockered skis & dropped posts allow the rider to attain good positioning freely and safely because the good spots are wide and rewarded with control.

I'm honestly less about the dropper post itself than the idea of good technique (as I started my posts in this thread) - but I struggle with the negativity around droppers because the practicality is so evident *if* you are minded around attaining the best control of your bicycle across varying terrain. To me: controlling your bike means more fun - a better experience.

As far as demeaning you for not using my personal gear choice - not what I'm after. I couldn't care less. Go for it. But I do think we are doing beginners (or those without experience re: droppers) an injustice by waxing poetic about how the old schoolers can rock the less than desirable gear. If we qualify our position and explain it and honest about the benefits for learning - then we're good.

Last edit: re: Full-suspension, disk brakes. All the gear in the world isn't worth a hill of beans if you have a poor foundation of positioning. I believe the dropper fosters that foundational skill better than all the other gear options. That's my orientation - so maybe that explains my verosity in advocating for a supid component.


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## froze (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm in the camp that these Dropper seatposts are not necessary. I use to MTB all the time on mountainous trails in So Calif and never had a need for own, I just manually dropped the seatpost enough then locked it in and went riding never giving it a second thought. Even stunt riders never use them, watch clips of freeriders like Danny Macaskill and Vittorio Brumontti they never use them; I've watched videos of downhill racing including Aggressive Downhill Mountain Bike Racing - Red Bull Hardline and not one rider that I could see had one. Here's a group of downhill racing ready bikes and not one dropper post: https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/fastest-downhill-race-bikes

I don't think dropper posts are necessary, when you get to the rough stuff just manually drop your post down if you need to, lock it in and roll.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I opt for just rocking my seat a bit lower than what the old roadie-based codgers recommend and leaving it where it is. Though I totally appreciate and am very familiar with the benefits of dropping a seat (from DHing a lot bitd to also spending a good amount of time riding BMX with my son) I prefer a stationary saddle for trail riding and find very little terrain in the typical trail system in my region that I consider technical or steep enough that I'm not perfectly comfortable just rolling through without messing with any buttons or levers. I look at it more like a preference thing, say clips vs flats (another component that people tend to get evangelical about), than something I'd consider a no-brainer like disc brakes.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

alexbn921 said:


> It's so funny that when new technology comes along and makes bikes *better* a group will always resist it.


It's so funny when new technology comes along, and some people assume it's "better" because it's new, or that their definition of "better" applies to everyone else.

What makes bikes better _for me_ is when they're less complex, more durable, have cleaner lines, they're lighter weight, and require less maintenance.

.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

We are seeing droppers in WC xc racing. And in my opinion there is a great reason. There is so little money in MTB that when a company says they will throw you a little cash to use their dropper, you just install the extra weight. I mean it may make the difference for a lot of Pro's who have to work at Starbucks to finance their racing.
I didn't watch the last race but how many droppers got used? Not installed but used. Looking through some of the highlights you can see some lowered seats but it looks like some droppers are still at full height.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

I keep seeing references to a dropper being a tool and I can't help but think of the old adage that a craftsman never blames poor performance on his tools. You ply your craft your way and I'll do it mine.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

rlee said:


> Not installed but used. Looking through some of the highlights you can see some lowered seats but it looks like some droppers are still at full height.


Not sure if I get your point, but if I linked you to footage of every Enduro race local/national/worldwide within in 2 years (and prob longer) where every single bike is dropper equiped and demonstrably used - would that add to the conversation and body of evidence?


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

richde said:


> Speaking of over exaggeration.


382grams extra for typical dropper vs normal post. In terms of bikes, that's very weighty. Most of bike engineering is reducing weight as much as they can. There is reason people are sacrificing dynamic range by gong from 2x > 1x. And we're buying $70/tire with thin sidewalls that rip fairly easy.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

Carl Mega said:


> Not sure if I get your point, but if I linked you to footage of every Enduro race local/national/worldwide within in 2 years (and prob longer) where every single bike is dropper equiped and demonstrably used
> No not Enduro, obviously that is not a topic. But WC XC racing. We are talking about people that train 20-30 hours a week on road and mtb. Most of them can push their bikes on the DH to terminal velocity with a high post. You have to remember that a 21 pound bike on semi slicks doesn't go as fast as a endure bike can.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> The vast majority of pro racers whose discipline can make use of a dropper do use them. XC is getting to where one might be an advantage over the weight but it's not there on all courses. Those courses are also hardly indicative of what the average rider rides. Downhillers are never going to sit and spin during a race run so why use one.
> 
> Now let's talk about the usage of them during Enduro, multi-hour rides, trails that are similar to what most people see, sure there are sections of EWS that are insane but not all.
> 
> ...


not super knowledgeable about DH, but droppers not needed there since no pedaling, as you stated. like this race where 1st place had a chain brake 15ft out the gate. so dropper use questional as you can have your saddle slammed down the entire time.





pro XC racing courses are the most representative of typical trail users, just much harder than your average trail. typically 90m of riding. This is nowhere close to a highly specialized example, but hte best one we have. It's also the best place where BS hits highway, parts can't be a big detriment or the top riders will refuse to use them; luckily it keeps the bike industry honest. Some of us like to value our own opinions over information and people who have a ton more experience and are better riders eg, whatever i just bought, is great and worth it. I am not one of them. If you're one of them, well i don't debate with walls. Otherwise provide some of your own examples, eg dropper use in competitive events of any kind instead of blanket disregard.

right now, evidence points to droppers being slower than stiff posts. Maybe more fun, better to learn, etc; but ultimately slower in a competitive environment needs to be disclosed before recommending purchase to others.

People are racing timed climbing and descending unlike downhil or enduro. The pros have better handling than us, so big + for droppers helping gap the skill difference, but their courses are harder than typical, so -. We are starting to see a tiny minority bringing droppers in. The big news is now FS bikes finally seeing a major conversion rate which indicates they are finally good enough to use in competitive events and are faster.

1st pro XC race of the season for others to see what the course is like.
https://www.redbull.tv/live/AP-1Q75MEJ391W11/segment/AP-1Q6WG3BE51W11/men-s-xco-finals


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

rlee said:


> No not Enduro, obviously that is not a topic.


I really don't get you - not even being snarky. Why isn't it a topic? Is it a given? I feel like there's some cherry picking going on when using racing as a backdrop here -> DH (no duh seats already lowered)... Freeride (same)...trials (same)... DS (same)...Slopestyle (same)...pump track (same).... then WC XC - slow to adopt so far and the terrain is ummm limited but getting better and the posts are creeping in - but then again few regular ppl can legitimately feel 300gr post weight on the bike and most of those guys are not like you and me - Absalon/Nino, you get to pick what you want - no one here is qualified to challenge. The rest and main part of the conversation, in my mind, is for enthusiasts who are trail riding - pedalling and control. What improves your personal experience? What are the pros/cons of this gear? You can see the orientation varies a lot:


Who cares, run what you brung
blue skills rider for life
Control freaks
Shred til dead
Don't care, but pushing a button is nice to have
Crusty penny-farthing luddites
Bike packers
I won't be a part of any fad that'd have me
weight weenies
if you ain't droppin, you aint riding
Model T hand crank car starters and churn their own butter
I rock all things on my 90s HT
I wouldn't put an extra gram on my race bike even if I saved a min on the DH
learn to ride!
It's the carpenter not the tool

And on and on... But wheves.

ps - all bike disiplines spend roughly the same time training - they just focus on different things.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

bob13bob said:


> not super knowledgeable about DH, but droppers not needed there since no pedaling, as you stated. like this race where 1st place had a chain brake 15ft out the gate. so dropper use questional as you can have your saddle slammed down the entire time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pro XC is still not indicative of most trails. It is getting there but it is still not as rough terrain as what most people doing what is considered All Mountain/Trail riding experience on average. Again the courses are getting more rugged but they are not there yet.

Also, you're being a bit disingenuous with your evidence points comment. It is widely accepted that minus a crash XC races are won on the climbs as that is where the longest splits take place.

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## spaaarky21 (Jul 1, 2007)

It sounds like the OP is riding AM or DH. Maybe the difference isn't as great there, if riders usually keep their seats lower to begin with? I ride mostly XC and keep my post high. So for me, a dropper is really useful.

When I first bought a dropper, I thought I had been had – that I spend hundreds of dollars to add a couple pounds to my bike with barely any benefit. I didn't start seeing a benefit until I talked to someone who loved his and was talking about how he just instinctively drops the seat any time he gets to a bit of a downhill. Once I started riding like that, I really saw a benefit. At this point, I think it's even a bit of a safety feature, to be able to brake more aggressively in steep sections because my weight is lower and further back.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

This is the silliest thread ever...


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> All good points; I've actually been recommending droppers to some of the newer guys I've been riding with. For me and a lot of the guys that have been at it a while though, they've ended up back on the shelf after a season or two.


i'm against this, or at least this guidance needs to be nuanced. all the new guys i got riding were are budget coil forks. going from budget coil > even moderate cost air forks is much bigger and better upgrade than a dropper.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

bob13bob said:


> i'm against this, or at least this guidance needs to be nuanced. all the new guys i got riding were are budget coil forks. going from budget coil > even moderate cost air forks is much bigger and better upgrade than a dropper.


Yes and no, as long as the coil isn't pogoing, bottoming out, etc., it's not really unsafe just heavy and less efficient. I'd even consider a beginner on a rigid as a candidate as long as they could grasp things like pumping and leaning the bike to corner.

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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

Carl Mega.
In Enduro, if you even just look at the bikes and tire choices, a lowered seat is what they have. I doubt that anyone would go old school and use a QR. And if one of the timed courses had even a hint of a pedaling section. One of the benefits of a dropper is not dropping but being able to raise you seat to the proper height. It wasn't that many years ago that everyone was using a QR. You would ride up, lower your seat, shred a DH, raise you seat, start riding up, stop and adjust your seat because it was too high or low, start riding, stop and adjust, or wait for your partner to stop and....
I was just asking a question about how many XC WC people have droppers but don't use them. A true XC bike is a lot different than a enduro bike.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Yes and no, as long as the coil isn't pogoing, bottoming out, etc., it's not really unsafe just heavy and less efficient. I'd even consider a beginner on a rigid as a candidate as long as they could grasp things like pumping and leaning the bike to corner.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


I have a dropper on my rigid... I don't ride super steeps or chunky stuff with it, but I use the dropper for cornering and pumping.

If you don't like a dropper, it's probably just because you don't know how to use it. There is not contest - I guarantee skill for skill, everything can be done better with a dropper. It's just the physics of bikes...


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

alexbn921 said:


> It's so funny that when new technology comes along and makes bikes better a group will always resist it. The same think is happening with disk brakes on road bikes. Half the rides say they don't need or want the extra complexity of disks. The other half realize that for 90% of riding they are worth the weight and add a level of safety that was missing. Can't even rap my head around not wanting disks. Same thing happens in mountain bike too. Not many hold outs running canti's left alive.:skep:


 Newer doesn't mean BETTER. you should familiarize yourself with more bike tech history. The industry always likes to push new stuff and formats to sell, it's their job. Many of what they push is crap that is actually a step backwards, but profit incentive is strong. 
Innovation is like that. relevant thread. http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/mtb-fads-trends-standards-didnt-make-1042578.html

when you lump us skeptical folk together, well you just put us in the same company as Nino, who's notoriously slow to adopt new fangled tech. Have ever noticed that the more experienced folk who've been through this dance, tend to be more patient about switching out gear?

It's funny you bring up road dics. do you know the benefits and drawbacks, or you just shooting from the hip? 
drawback Facts:
much heavier
also need heavier wheels due to beefier hubs
much less aero.
You considered that and you can't wrap your head around maybe be skeptical about them? not like any of those are important to road biking, right?

i'm not even pretending to be the know all against droppers. Once we see them on majority of XC racers, i'll be convinced that top end droppers are worth the weight to equip in terms of speed. in terms of fun, i'll defer to others' experience.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

l'oiseau said:


> I have a dropper on my rigid... I don't ride super steeps or chunky stuff with it, but I use the dropper for cornering and pumping.
> 
> If you don't like a dropper, it's probably just because you don't know how to use it. There is not contest - I guarantee skill for skill, everything can be done better with a dropper. It's just the physics of bikes...


Exactly, there are so many misconceptions and falsehoods spouted off. I can get off the back and get low without one, well, that's good but what do you do when you need to be low and centered. QR does the same thing, yes, until you need to change quickly multiple times over a few seconds of trail. The list goes on. As you said, it's physics.

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

rlee said:


> Carl Mega.
> In Enduro, if you even just look at the bikes and tire choices, a lowered seat is what they have. I doubt that anyone would go old school and use a QR. And if one of the timed courses had even a hint of a pedaling section. One of the benefits of a dropper is not dropping but being able to raise you seat to the proper height. It wasn't that many years ago that everyone was using a QR. You would ride up, lower your seat, shred a DH, raise you seat, start riding up, stop and adjust your seat because it was too high or low, start riding, stop and adjust, or wait for your partner to stop and....
> I was just asking a question about how many XC WC people have droppers but don't use them. A true XC bike is a lot different than a enduro bike.


To go a step further, a true XC bike wouldn't last a season for me riding it the way I and lots of my friends ride our local "XC" loop.

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

bob13bob said:


> Newer doesn't mean BETTER. you should familiarize yourself with more bike tech. The industry always likes to push new stuff and formats to sell, it's their job. Many of what they push is crap that is actually a step backwards, but profit incentive is strong.
> Innovation is like that. relevant thread. http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/mtb-fads-trends-standards-didnt-make-1042578.html
> 
> when you lump us skeptical folk together, well you just put us in the same company as Nino, who's notoriously slow to adopt new fangled tech. Have ever noticed that the more experienced folk who've been through this dance, tend to be more patient about switching out gear?
> ...


XC racers are a poor use case to argue about why you shouldn't/won't run one. They win on the climbs not on the downs. Sacrificing two on the down to save twenty on the climb is absolutely the right call for that specific use case.

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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Pro XC is still not indicative of most trails. It is getting there but it is still not as rough terrain as what most people doing what is considered All Mountain/Trail riding experience on average. Again the courses are getting more rugged but they are not there yet.
> 
> Also, you're being a bit disingenuous with your evidence points comment. It is widely accepted that minus a crash XC races are won on the climbs as that is where the longest splits take place.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


you are grossly misinformed if you think "most people" don't ride trails that are WAY easier than pro XC courses. I ride in norcal Bay area, which is not the gnarliest, but he majority of riders out here won't even run down our most difficult sections.

I'm not being disingenuous at all, you just don't like and are not countering the evidence i brought. most bike racing is won on the climbs, that's exactly my point. It's why a $300 "upgrade" that adds 380g probably makes your bike slower.

any statements about gear need to be qualified more carefully in general disc on mtbr. gear advice for enduro DH XC are very different.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Carl Mega said:


> What improves your personal experience? What are the pros/cons of this gear? You can see the orientation varies a lot:.


Precisely.

I for one stopped giving a rats ass about what components XC races were being won on back in the very early 90s as it had exactly zero to do with what I considered mountain biking. Still doesn't really.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

What happened to BushwackerinPA?

He would just absolutely love this thread.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> XC racers are a poor use case to argue about why you shouldn't/won't run one. They win on the climbs not on the downs. Sacrificing two on the down to save twenty on the climb is absolutely the right call for that specific use case.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


 you guys are just strengthening my argument. If you have to pedal uphil and stop at where you started, then all my points are relevant. If you're lift or shuttling, then the equation changes. Do you think most riding out there is lift/shuttle?

Or if you dont' mind climbing slower to get a faster descent; but overall slower complete course. Then great, dropper fits that sort of riding, i think we have consensus on that. But that needs to be disclosed before we recommend people to spend $300 on a post that probably makes their overall ride slower.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

bob13bob said:


> you are grossly misinformed if you think "most people" don't ride trails that are WAY easier than pro XC courses. I ride in norcal Bay area, which is not the gnarliest, but he majority of riders out here won't even run down our most difficult sections.
> 
> I'm not being disingenuous at all, you just don't like and are not countering the evidence i brought. most bike racing is won on the climbs, that's exactly my point. It's why a $300 "upgrade" that adds 380g probably makes your bike slower.
> 
> any statements about gear need to be qualified more carefully in general disc on mtbr. gear advice for enduro DH XC are very different.


Except most people don't ride pure XC on a daily ride. Sure if all you care about is climbing you're on point. Otherwise you're off base.

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

bob13bob said:


> you guys are just strengthening my argument. If you have to pedal uphil and stop at where you started, then all my points are relevant. If you're lift or shuttling, then the equation changes. Do you think most riding out there is lift/shuttle?
> 
> Or if you dont' mind climbing slower to get a faster descent; but overall slower complete course. Then great, dropper fits that sort of riding, i think we have consensus on that. But that needs to be disclosed before we recommend people to spend $300 on a post that probably makes their overall ride slower.


None of your points are relevant. You're basing an entire argument off of a group of people who set their bike up to climb as fast as possible at a possible sacrifice to durability, long term dependability and comfort. That's not indicative of a large chunk of the mountain biking population.

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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

bob13bob said:


> you guys are just strengthening my argument. If you have to pedal uphil and stop at where you started, then all my points are relevant. If you're lift or shuttling, then the equation changes. Do you think most riding out there is lift/shuttle?


Seriously man... You don't know, what you don't know. You should step back. Listen. You are taking strong positions on things that you clearly have no idea about.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

bob13bob said:


> I ride in norcal Bay area, which is not the gnarliest, but he majority of riders out here won't even run down our most difficult sections.


All in the perspective - your average intermediate rider from around here would probably not find trails in that area very technically challenging for the most part.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Except most people don't ride pure XC on a daily ride. Sure if all you care about is climbing you're on point. Otherwise you're off base.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


you're strawmanning a bit. If all you care about is going as fast as possible around the total non gravity assisted course, then you're talking about XC which i'm point. If you're the type of rider who only cares about the downhill times and not overall speed, then droppers have more place in that type of riding.

Also, don't denigrate XC, it means only one thing, overall fastest time through the course on non gravity assisted riding on whatever bike makes that possible. some XC courses incorporate DH course sections to them; and for those courses a beefier bike will benefit. If you're blowing up parts, then you can choose heavier components, or choose to ride more delicate. Eitherway are valid strategies and balance for XC riding. ~70% of trail time is climbing uphill, XCers don't ignore that fact.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> All in the perspective - your average intermediate rider from around here would probably not find trails in that area very technically challenging for the most part.


definitely higher technical avg skills around tahoe or colorado, but majority of mtn trail riders are closer to my neck of the woods. But hey, my area also includes santa cruz and marin, not exactly considered a cake walk Again, we need to qualify before we give advice, eg if your the type or rider to catch air, ride drops, gravel roads, single track, etc etc.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

Carl Mega said:


> Seriously man... You don't know, what you don't know. You should step back. Listen. You are taking strong positions on things that you clearly have no idea about.


translation: you brought evidence to the table that I have a hard time understanding or countering, so i'll just blanket disregard you instead which allow me to stay in my mental comfort safety zone.

Have i used a lot my personal experiments to make my arguments? Or am I referring 
to examples of people who are qualified experts?


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

bob13bob said:


> you're strawmanning a bit. If all you care about is going as fast as possible around the total non gravity assisted course, then you're talking about XC which i'm point. If you're the type of rider who only cares about the downhill times and not overall speed, then droppers have more place in that type of riding.


No, I'm not saying you said something you didn't, you decided to focus solely on XC. You're still being disingenuous by assuming that someone riding a loop is doing so at race pace with no desire to "play" by saying as fast as possible. Again, not indicative of the masses.

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

bob13bob said:


> translation: you brought evidence to the table that I have a hard time understanding or countering, so i'll just blanket disregard you instead which allow me to stay in my mental comfort safety zone.
> 
> Have i used a lot my personal experiments to make my arguments? Or am I referring
> to examples of people who are qualified experts?


No, you brought evidence that is not relevant and cherry picked to the table and are now making ad hominem attacks to cover that fact.

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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

bob13bob said:


> translation: you brought evidence to the table that I have a hard time understanding or countering, so i'll just blanket disregard you instead which allow me to stay in my mental comfort safety zone.
> 
> Have i used a lot my personal experiments to make my arguments? Or am I referring
> to examples of people who are qualified experts?


I really don't want to argue with you. You are in over your head here and making outrageous comments - re: DH has no pedalling. FS finally got to the point where it's XC appliciable. Weight automatically means slower. Merits of air/coil springs. And so many other easily debunked myths that your conjecture is out of date and shows that you have very little first hand experience. I am just about waiting for you to start a debate about Magura HS-33s vs. cable accuated disks. You seriously don't know, what you don't know and that's hard to address....

"In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since.
"Whenever you feel like criticizing any one," he told me, "just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had."


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

yzedf said:


> CT here. Have a dropper on my XC bike that gets ridden everywhere but the bike park. It's not that I can't ride without it, but I am faster both up and down. I actually find it more useful for larger obstacles when going up, logs that are big enough to grind chainring on and the like. I can stay in a neutral body position and move the bike up farther than I move without having to dodge the seat. Great for all those power moves getting up on granite too.


 What ev. Not buying it. Big logs, stand up. And muscle over. 6'4" rider here. Long legs. Seat not in the way.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

Has this turned into a e-bike thread?
My dh bike, no dropper. even if I have to ride up I can find a extension seat post. My 22 pound xc dually, no dropper. My 23 pound xc ht has a dropper. My 150/160 trail bike has a dropper. I use my dropper a lot on the trail bike, maybe not a game changer but they are really slick, aren't they? On my ht, I rarely use it. It's nice but I could live without it.
Where a dropper really works is on your Girlfriends bike. It was the best money I ever spent. Mine seems to just ride a lot safer everywhere. she lowers it a little for tech single track and slams it for the DH. And I don't have to wait for her like I used to when she was messing around with her QR.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> No, I'm not saying you said something you didn't, you decided to focus solely on XC. You're still being disingenuous by assuming that someone riding a loop is doing so at race pace with no desire to "play" by saying as fast as possible. Again, not indicative of the masses.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


no i'm not.

my points are simple, I'm saying: 
-XC races are actually the best competitive environment we have to compare to, and closest of all race disciplines to majority of trail riding. Most riders are not DH, or enduro in NA, by a huge margin. pro leve XC courses are actually harder than most of the rider base.
-pro riders and their teams know more about this then we do, so we should pay attention to what they use. It's the best objective data we have.
-i'm not blanketing against droppers; but full disclosure, most evidence is that they are overall slower on a course. I never stated that they are not more fun, help you learn, safer, descend faster, etc etc. In fact i deferred to the expertise of other in this thread on that. This disclosure needs to be made, some of us are interested in going as fast as possible.
-also if you're riding a budget coil fork, air fork upgrade is much better than a dropper

you guys are consistently red herring and/or strawmanning or blanket disregarding me instead of countering my points.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Travis Bickle said:


> Not going down this with MY saddle up. You are welcome to


 Looks like New England gravel. ( Nice chunk though. But what with all that dirt? )


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Precisely.
> 
> I for one stopped giving a rats ass about what components XC races were being won on back in the very early 90s as it had exactly zero to do with what I considered mountain biking. Still doesn't really.





> Some of us like to value our own opinions over information and people who have a ton more experience and are better riders eg, whatever i just bought, is great and worth it.


 like i said earlier. It's up to reader whether they want to follow advice and opinion coming from that mentality.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Carl Mega said:


> I disagree - it's ok tho. Why I think they are similar is this: Both high seat posts and straightish skis made the sweet spot of positioning almost impossibly small, and most people developed bad habits because the equipment punished them if they weren't working around the gear - it became safer to have poor technique. Shaped/rockered skis & dropped posts allow the rider to attain good positioning freely and safely because the good spots are wide and rewarded with control.
> 
> I'm honestly less about the dropper post itself than the idea of good technique (as I started my posts in this thread) - but I struggle with the negativity around droppers because the practicality is so evident *if* you are minded around attaining the best control of your bicycle across varying terrain. To me: controlling your bike means more fun - a better experience.
> 
> ...


 I'm actually agreeing with Slappy here. Tried one, took it off. Both MA riders here. Lots of chunk riding, short punchy up n downs. MA has some hills, but not huge mountains, at least not in the eastern parts where we ride. Those that ride with droppers, you use it for 50' of descent? Good technique, varying terrain? Got that in boatloads here. Lots of rocks, trials like moves. Looking 3-5 rocks ahead all the time. Not going to ride here without good technique.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

bob13bob, The problem with comparing anything to xc racers is that we have a hard time understanding how talented of a bike rider they are. Any XC regional or provincial pro that I know can easily top 10 in a enduro. If all you did was ride a high seat day in and out then think how fast you could be. I honestly think other bike gear limits their DH speed, like a thin wall fast rolling tire.
I do think droppers are slower on xc course, even a WC course. I think you would have to have a very lengthy Dh to make up the time. Some of the loops around here are safer/more fun with a dropper but I know they aren't faster.
That is why I wonder if the pro xc people are using them just to get some sponsor money.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

bob13bob said:


> <snip nonsense> but full disclosure, most evidence is that they are overall slower on a course.


Simple questions: What evidence? Have you personally tested and verified this?

Not that it matters, but I have, and yes faster overall - both in races and on my own tracks. And safer (less risk of a time costing misstep). And less fatigue. Personal and direct experience. What's yours?

That said ... while a benefit, speed was not a driver in my equipment selection.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

I went for a ride and lost track of this argument...

I'll say this though. I often put my seat UP to go slower, especially through pump heavy sections. This just being because my legs are too dead to pump, which I find way, way more physically demanding than sitting and pedaling. I can also go much faster and smoother seat down and pumping.

This on nearly flat terrain too, only slight grades but has the right features to pump the bike.

Climbing and flat flats are the only places I need my seat up. And when I'm too tired to pump and stand up and pedal, because believe me, even dh, those two things are WAY harder.

I also rode with a QR for many years. I never touched it. Just compromised and rode saddle high. Moving it up and down for rolling terrain is more than my patience could handle. Now that I have droppers and know how to ride with them it feels really ridiculous cornering or descending anything with my seat up. Took me a 1/2 to 3/4 of a season to understand how/when to use the dropper. Now it's like shifting gears. Even easier.

Over a log... drop the seat and absorb or jump.

Down some twisties, drop the seat, get my ass low and centered, lean and rail the bike through the corners.

Through some whoops, drop that $hit and pump through them like I was skiing a zipperline through moguls.

Dead tired on a flat and resting pedaling along... seat up and spinning.

Hammering up a steep climb where I need traction... seat up and the nose of the saddle right in my taint, chest to the bars and up I go.

A sketchy, no-fall climbing section where I need traction but might stall, seat in mid-position so I can put a foot down if I choke.

There's no disadvantage from a riding standpoint. I don't notice the weight and knock on wood I bought two of the easiest to use, reliable posts out there: GD Turbo on my rigid and Fox Transfer on my HT. Hydro is better, but the GD is a good compromise for a steel rigid bike.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

bob13bob said:


> no i'm not.
> 
> my points are simple, I'm saying:
> -XC races are actually the best competitive environment we have to compare to, and closest of all race disciplines to majority of trail riding. Most riders are not DH, or enduro in NA, by a huge margin. pro leve XC courses are actually harder than most of the rider base.
> ...


No, Enduro is actually the best example of day to day trail riding. You seem a bit confused as to what Enduro really is. Go look at some races that are not EWS, heck even some of their stages, most do not approach a DH level track. Most are just simple single track where the descent is timed.

XC is a horrible example in this case because downhill prowess gains you nothing once you get past the efficient stage.

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

rlee said:


> bob13bob, The problem with comparing anything to xc racers is that we have a hard time understanding how talented of a bike rider they are. Any XC regional or provincial pro that I know can easily top 10 in a enduro. If all you did was ride a high seat day in and out then think how fast you could be. I honestly think other bike gear limits their DH speed, like a thin wall fast rolling tire.
> I do think droppers are slower on xc course, even a WC course. I think you would have to have a very lengthy Dh to make up the time. Some of the loops around here are safer/more fun with a dropper but I know they aren't faster.
> That is why I wonder if the pro xc people are using them just to get some sponsor money.


Exactly, I would even wager they make the descents faster but ascents slower, for the majority of the population that's what they are after, most will never seriously race. For a pro XC rider that's a terrible trade off.

You are also spot on on their bike being a limiting factor long before a dropper could provide a benefit. It's the nature of their game.

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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I totally love my dropper! .. but jeez. Its about convenience. Stopping when the trail changes from up to down is a pain in the ass, its not impossible. Id rather not stop, so I own a dropper. It sounds like a few guys get it... mostly some old names that were around before droppers were.

MTBR has turned into an infomercial about so many products. Oh no dropper? I guess Ill just have to ride black diamond trails with my seat post sticking out 2 feet because doing anything about it is otherwise impossible! :lol:

Im more conveying the way it really was, not so much my experience. Seeing people stop, get off their bike, drop the saddle, and then continue was what happened on the trail before droppers. SUPER common. The guys who knew the trail would stop at the shady part on hot days to get ready for a climb, or descent.

Some guys are making it out like we were all just crashing with a seat hitting us in the chest until droppers came around. Dropper conversations are the weirdest, most bizarre thing ever. Dropping a seat isnt revolutionary. We just found a more _convenient_ way.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

rlee said:


> bob13bob, The problem with comparing anything to xc racers is that we have a hard time understanding how talented of a bike rider they are. Any XC regional or provincial pro that I know can easily top 10 in a enduro. If all you did was ride a high seat day in and out then think how fast you could be. I honestly think other bike gear limits their DH speed, like a thin wall fast rolling tire.
> I do think droppers are slower on xc course, even a WC course. I think you would have to have a very lengthy Dh to make up the time. Some of the loops around here are safer/more fun with a dropper but I know they aren't faster.
> That is why I wonder if the pro xc people are using them just to get some sponsor money.


Another MA rider here; I love my dropper. I've ridden all the terrain around my house without one, but I just have more fun with the dropper. With the dropper down, I just get more of a feeling as if I can throw the bike around. I'm not sure I'm faster - heck maybe I'm slower - but I'm having more fun.

And as someone mentioned earlier in the thread but which wasn't commented on: It's not so much the post allowing me to get my weight back, but rather the dropper allowing me to get my weight lower while staying centered over the bike and lean the bike while I'm there. At my level of riding (I'm not a World Cup racer), it lets me more aggressively pressure the front while on steep stuff, which let's me descend faster, which is fun.

If people don't like droppers, I certainly don't demand the run one, but I'd give up my rear suspension before I gave up my dropper. The dropper to me adds more fun factor in the short, punchy, rocky terrain we have here where I'm not going to stop and lower my seat.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

bob13bob said:


> Newer doesn't mean BETTER. you should familiarize yourself with more bike tech history. The industry always likes to push new stuff and formats to sell, it's their job. Many of what they push is crap that is actually a step backwards, but profit incentive is strong.
> Innovation is like that. relevant thread. http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/mtb-fads-trends-standards-didnt-make-1042578.html
> 
> when you lump us skeptical folk together, well you just put us in the same company as Nino, who's notoriously slow to adopt new fangled tech. Have ever noticed that the more experienced folk who've been through this dance, tend to be more patient about switching out gear?
> ...


Nothing wrong with being skeptical.
I currently have 2 decades of the best mountain bike tech sitting in my garage. My father in law also has a carbon Kestrel with one of the first XT dear head groups made.
97 Super V full XTR
2008 Blur XC carbon
2017 Tallboy 3
27 years ago I rode across the USA and when I got back I started mountain biking.
I assure you I have an understanding of all the trends and developments in mountain bike history.
10 years ago I picked up a dropper and loved how it made my riding better. Maintenance wasn't bad, but the design need work. Still have it and it still works. I upgraded last year to a 150mm dropper and it made navigating steep terrain easier so I was faster.
I race XC on flat course where most of my competition are roadies. I need help on the climbs, but crush them on the descents. My dropper stays at home for most races. It's almost impossible to pass on the downhills anyway so the extra weight would be a waste.
When I built my tallboy I had to wait for the post to get made so back to old school stop and drop. It as a pain and on most sections I was much slower as I often bump my post up to pedal the flatter sections. It also used a lot more energy standing and pedaling the whole way.
I fall into the camp of using my saddle as a reference point to aid in control around corners. With a 200mm drop I had to relearn that point and I find that I can still use the saddle, it's just lower down my leg.
For XC droppers are starting to creep in, but it's a weight game and races are usually won on the climbs. The new generation a light, reliable, "expensive" droppers is here.
anyway road bikes:
much heavier : 150g is not MUCH heavier
also need heavier wheels due to beefier hubs : small difference and rims are lighter with the removal of the brake track.
much less aero. Not true at all. rims can be designed without a brake track for improved areo. New time-trial bike are coming in disk with ZERO extra drag. Also the front brake mount area is adds alot of drag on road bikes.
Going down mount Diablo without disks can be scary. The top section is over 20% so it's impossible to stop 200lbs+ of bike and rider. I've had people wander out into the road and it just wasn't possible to stop. I had to yell and avoid them. FYI i have dura ace alloy wheels/brakes with Swiss stop pads and my wheels are true to +-.001 inch. They are the best rim brakes currently on the market.
My next road bike will have disk, tubeless 28-30 tires and 12 speed electronic shifting.
I will finally be able to give up my 3x10 and have the range I need.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

tuckerjt07 said:


> I find the I can get low and over the back of the bike without one comments to be telling. To me one of my favorite things is to be able to be low and still be centered over the bike, off the back is not always where you need to be when low.


Exactly. If I had a nickel for every time somobody said "get your weight back" I'd be rich. The reality is, most riders don't need to be told to get their weight back. If you're riding something steep and gnarly, fear alone will cause most riders to shift their weight back far enough, if not too far.

Many riders however would be much better off getting their weight lower. Your center of mass should be vertically over your bottom bracket, and yes the steeper it gets the further back you need to shift to keep centered over the BB. But, that doesn't mean you're so far back that your arms are locked straight, which is a horrible position for control. But that is what you often see with riders with rigid posts at full extension.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

I don't give two squirts if someone tells me I'm less of a man (or woman, or human) for using a dropper. 

It's obvious (to me) I can ride a MTB without one, I did so for years, but it's simply just way more fun with.

I never think "Is this trail too easy for my dropper", I think "Where on this trail (no matter the difficulty) can I use my dropper to make my ride more fun".

For a lot of people it's not about proving something to other riders, it's about having an extension of your bike that makes it a more versatile tool. If you like being a mile up in the air and draggin' your ass over the rear tire, more power to ya, I did it for years, now I can't imagine why I would get in that awkward, ridiculous position if I had the choice not to. I almost always stay over my seat, no matter how steep or how leaned over I am.


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## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

In the past, I've been a light hardtail, low flat bar, semi weight weenie trail rider. From there I went to a 4" dually but still very much "XC" setup which was still my preference for my own trails.

Now I have a 150mm 27.5 Stumpjumper that came with a dropper. I was skeptical about the dropper - I never "needed" one in the past, never even used a QR actually, so why did I need one now, to ride the same stuff?

Essentially, I'm now hitting rough stuff harder and faster than I have before - I'm not tippy toeing around things, sketching down drops and so forth. 

The dropper suits this bike package, and some of what I ride and I'd sooner have it than not, now.

In that respect, dropper or no dropper is IMO no different than matching anyother detail or part on your bike, to what YOU do, and what YOU need.


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## froze (Feb 5, 2011)

_cj said:


> it's so funny when new technology comes along, and some people assume it's "better" because it's new, or that their definition of "better" applies to everyone else.
> 
> What makes bikes better _for me_ is when they're less complex, more durable, have cleaner lines, they're lighter weight, and require less maintenance.
> 
> .


exactly!!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

l'oiseau said:


> I don't give two squirts if someone tells me I'm less of a man (or woman, or human) for using a dropper.


Does this really happen?


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Does this really happen?


Apparently. Read the whole thread.

I try not to judge people too much for their riding, but I admit, I had a chuckle at a couple of guys riding with hockey helmets who were descending on the climb only trails...


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

froze said:


> Even stunt riders never use them, watch clips of freeriders like Danny Macaskill and Vittorio Brumontti they never use them


Never huh? 




Take a look over Danny's shoulder at 17 seconds in.



froze said:


> I've watched videos of downhill racing including Aggressive Downhill Mountain Bike Racing - Red Bull Hardline and not one rider that I could see had one. Here's a group of downhill racing ready bikes and not one dropper post: https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/fastest-downhill-race-bikes


You may have watched some DH videos, but it doesn't sound like you've ever ridden a proper DH bike.

Arguing that droppers aren't needed, becuase they aren't used on DH bikes is silly. Take a look at the seat tube angle of a DH bike, then take a look at the saddle height in relation to the bar height.

DH bikes are not designed to pedal uphill or seated. They are meant to go down hill....fast...and that is all. You'll NEVER see a DH rider pedaling seated other than just cruising after the finish line or cruising to/from the lift.

The reason trials riders, stunt riders, and DH riders don't use droppers is becuase they all have low saddle positions and no need to climb efficiently in a seated position. Heck, a lot of trials bikes don't even have seats.

DH, trials, BMX, slopestyle, dirt jumpers.......all the same. Bike handling is at an absolute premium in every one of those discipines, and you'll never see anyone riding those disciplines with a high saddle position......and therefore no need for a dropper.

No, a dropper isn't necessary or mandatory for most mountain bike riding, but you even admit that you dropped your post for descents in so cal, so, you have to admit there is a benefit to getting the seat low and out of the way. A dropper makes that far more convenient.

If someones terrain, riding style, or personal preferences mean they don't want or need a dropper, that is fine too.

I don't care if people use a dropper or not. But, lets not use silly arguments against their use either.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

From a BC perspective this is hilarious. Please keep it coming.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

bob13bob said:


> 382grams extra for typical dropper vs normal post. In terms of bikes, that's very weighty.


Not really. The 500+grams for a typical dropper is very weighty.


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## MCHB (Jun 23, 2014)

Dropper...No dropper...


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Travis Bickle said:


> From a BC perspective this is hilarious. Please keep it coming.


i assume every bike in bc has a dropper? if not, your 'perspective' is meaningless.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Travis Bickle said:


> From a BC perspective this is hilarious. Please keep it coming.


BC?

Backcountry, Whistler, ball crusher, please clarify????


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## Strafer (Jun 7, 2004)

Dropper post, flat pedals, and tubeless conversion.
What are 3 "fads" I resisted but now wished I hadn't.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Strafer said:


> Dropper post, flat pedals, and tubeless conversion.
> What are 3 "fads" I resisted but now wished I hadn't.


Ooh, I know. Bar ends, awesome straps, and e-bikes?

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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

life behind bars said:


> Pretty much this. ^^^ But what would MTBR be without the endless arguing over minutia?


Amateur hour compared to telemark skiers!!


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

twd953 said:


> DH, trials, BMX, slopestyle, dirt jumpers.......all the same. Bike handling is at an absolute premium in every one of those discipines, and you'll never see anyone riding those disciplines with a high saddle position......and therefore no need for a dropper.
> .


I made this argument before on a previous dropper argument thread (and here I am again, go figger).

My other argument is that the high saddle position came from road biking, another carryover into MTB. There's only two situations where a high saddle is advantageous, everything else is a compromise. It just so happens that most people riding MTB aren't fit enough to ride typical trails standing up the whole time. I can make nearly any climb standing up unless it's real loose and I can certainly ride flats with a low saddle... it just sucks. I can say the same for everything else with a high saddle.

We don't need droppers. We don't need multiple gears. Hell, we don't even need bikes (we could just hike the trails). But I like rolling on two wheels, and I'm not fit or strong enough for a single gear ratio... and droppers just make riding more fun most of the time... if they don't for you, don't use them... but to those people, I think they need to spend a month or two riding with their saddle down and then re-introduce the dropper. I guarantee you'll never go back.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

This is just tedious now.


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

jeremy283 said:


> This is beginning to be my take on it. I've been dropping my seatpost with a quick release on every downhill run/jump park run but recently I was doing some urban drops (stair sets) and jumps. Later I realized I was running my seatpost at the normal height. No issues at the time and I didn't even realize I hadn't dropped my seat.
> 
> Sure they slightly get in the way (but not bad) at normal height when running a REAL steep downhill but unless you're going down VERY STEEP inclines regularly I don't see a normal seat post height as an issue. Even at normal height it hardly gets in the way cause when I lean back I'm behind the seat anyway.
> 
> ...


I started looking for my first dropper post long before I knew such a thing existed. Got tired of getting tossed off my bike. I like the saddle high and for me, getting behind it quickly from any situation is just not possible.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

life behind bars said:


> This is just tedious now.


Seriously


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> No, Enduro is actually the best example of day to day trail riding. You seem a bit confused as to what Enduro really is. Go look at some races that are not EWS, heck even some of their stages, most do not approach a DH level track. Most are just simple single track where the descent is timed.
> 
> XC is a horrible example in this case because downhill prowess gains you nothing once you get past the efficient stage.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Oh?

Nino Schurter was faster than just about everyone going downhill in XCO in 2015.

In 2016, Julien Absalon, 2x Olympic gold medalist, 5x World champ, and 7x World Cup champion, started using a dropper. Everyone noted that he had closed the gap to Schurter, significantly.

If I used the EWS as an example of "Enduro", I would assume that "real mountain biking" involves nothing but chair lifts, shuttles, and paved/gravel climbs.

To give a common example of what I consider "XC", the vast majority of the trails near Moab come to mind. Same thing with most of the popular trails in Pisgah.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> Oh?
> 
> Nino Schurter was faster than just about everyone going downhill in XCO in 2015.
> 
> ...


Faster than just about anyone so not the fastest?

Started using a dropper and closed the gap. Although it's a one off example it does more to further the case of using a dropper than it does against it. Also, a single instance does not a trend make.

Which is why I said besides EWS, reading and not skimming is such a bear isn't it?

What you "consider" XC is nothing but a red herring.

To quote the moderator from Billy Madison.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

tuckerjt07 said:


> XC racers are a poor use case to argue about why you shouldn't/won't run one. They win on the climbs not on the downs. Sacrificing two on the down to save twenty on the climb is absolutely the right call for that specific use case.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


have you watchedthe wold cup for the last 2 or 3 years, pretty much every race has been won on the DH.

The Absalom/Schurter show, thats why Abslom started using a dropper, he was fine on the uphill but lost so much time to Schurter on the downhill he had to do something else.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Faster than just about anyone so not the fastest?
> 
> Started using a dropper and closed the gap. Although it's a one off example it does more to further the case of using a dropper than it does against it. Also, a single instance does not a trend make.
> 
> ...


I was defending his choice to run a dropper. And, that of Catharine Pendrel, Maja Włoszczowska, and a few other people with rainbow stripes on their sleeves. More and more every year.

Meaning that these people, who do it for a living, are paying the weight penalty because they believe it makes them faster overall. I'm in the same camp, as are most people who can be bothered to use a stopwatch.

Adding ~300g to a 75,000g system doesn't change your uphill speed much. Climbing speed increases linearly with watts/kg until you hit 18mph or so. A dropper, which allows an XC racer to really attack the descents, can force a person without one, who might descend slower, to make mistakes, blow up trying to catch back up, or trying to get away before the descent.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

mik_git said:


> have you watchedthe wold cup for the last 2 or 3 years, pretty much every race has been won on the DH.
> 
> The Absalom/Schurter show, thats why Abslom started using a dropper, he was fine on the uphill but lost so much time to Schurter on the downhill he had to do something else.


That's a race within a race. Being a tenth faster on the climb than the pack is much more important than being a tenth faster on the down. Why? That's where the majority of time is spent.

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> I was defending his choice to run a dropper. And, that of Catharine Pendrel, Maja Włoszczowska, and a few other people with rainbow stripes on their sleeves. More and more every year.
> 
> Meaning that these people, who do it for a living, are paying the weight penalty because they believe it makes them faster overall. I'm in the same camp, as are most people who can be bothered to use a stopwatch.
> 
> ...


My apologies, the oh remark came off as a precursor to snark over this media.

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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

tuckerjt07 said:


> That's a race within a race. Being a tenth faster on the climb than the pack is much more important than being a tenth faster on the down. Why? That's where the majority of time is spent.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


but it wasn't a 10th more like 10 seconds. Absalom would catch Schurter up every climb,then loose the time on every descent. Even the WC on the weekend, Schurter pulled like 15 seconds on the second last DH and walked away for the guy in 2nd, that's not nothing. And we're talking every descent for the last 2-3 years.
Thats ust a point about how XC races arn't liek they were in the 90's... it's also a point FOR droppers as Abslom improved his XC performance with one.

I don't hate droppers, I jsut find them a tool, which may or may not be usefull to everyone.
Take my last ride, riding a local area that I find the most technical trail for my enjoyment, riding it o my old HT, 80mm travel, v brakes, tubes, bar ends and not even a QR on the post. At not one point did I ever think about my seat being in the way or a problem. This is the sort of riding I do 99% of the time. Then a ride a while ago, unfamiliar area, 80 of the ride, fine, but that ther 20% wished i had a dropper.

I see the point of a dropper, but also feel tht for the majority of my riding it isn't necessary, even riding some (not all) of the local trails they ran the EWS on this year I didn't feel the seat was getting in the way on my FS bike (could have done with a serious skill upgrade). But then in an XC race last year, first DH on a course I've never ridden before, I nearly got punted out the front door by the seat...did have the dropper, I'd just started using it, seat down, much better...

I guess the point i'm trying to make [tl/dr] is that droppers are usefull, but it also depends on what and how you ride. I think if you define what you normally ride aligns more with enduro, then a dropper is a given, but if what you like to ride aligns more with XC then it is less necessary.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

mik_git said:


> but it wasn't a 10th more like 10 seconds. Absalom would catch Schurter up every climb,then loose the time on every descent. Even the WC on the weekend, Schurter pulled like 15 seconds on the second last DH and walked away for the guy in 2nd, that's not nothing. And we're talking every descent for the last 2-3 years.
> Thats ust a point about how XC races arn't liek they were in the 90's... it's also a point FOR droppers as Abslom improved his XC performance with one.
> 
> I don't hate droppers, I jsut find them a tool, which may or may not be usefull to everyone.
> ...


The climbs lasted less than a hundred seconds?

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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

tuckerjt07 said:


> The climbs lasted less than a hundred seconds?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


tell you what, go watch some of the races and see for yourself.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

mik_git said:


> tell you what, go watch some of the races and see for yourself.


That was a rhetorical question. I didn't say a tenth of a second I said a tenth, you know like 100 * 1/10 =10? You need that numerator to be a much a bigger number for the downhill to make a difference against the field as a whole, unless your uphill is already as or faster.

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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

OK, well the longest climb at last weeks world cup the guy who came 5th did a best time of 1:29, so yes less than 100sec. Of course thats from strava, so jsut an approximation. And that course has all short climbs, just an example. there was 1 other climb he did in 1:15 and 2 others that were around the 40-50sec range.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

You guys all know you are all a bunch of over critical lunatics, right? These are bicycle accessories, not top secret fighter jet titanium cotter pins holding the bombs secure.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

My missus swears by her dropper and wouldn't ride without it, I have up until now never used one so I cant comment (imagine that? keeping my uninformed opinion to myself)


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

How do these 'the Earth is flat-landers' bunny hop w/ a seat up their jaxy!?

Sent from my kltedv using Tapatalk


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

the_joe said:


> Seriously
> View attachment 1138547


Thanks, you have a nice day too!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Pro XC is still not indicative of most trails. It is getting there but it is still not as rough terrain as what most people doing what is considered All Mountain/Trail riding experience on average. Again the courses are getting more rugged but they are not there yet.
> 
> Also, you're being a bit disingenuous with your evidence points comment. It is widely accepted that minus a crash XC races are won on the climbs as that is where the longest splits take place.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


I'd say the courses are there, it's just that it's not consistent over the country/world, nor can it ever be due to limitations of terrain in some places. In some places in the country "XC" is just making turns and short ups and downs on very timid singletrack. In other places, it's several thousand foot climbs and descents. A few weeks ago, I had nasty rock-strewn descents, some chutes, technical singletrack, in addition to some long smooth climbs and everything in between. 8300' of climbing/descending and I just went through the pictures I took of the pro-race and I did in fact see a few droppers on their bikes. When I was hitting those descents at full speed I felt that I had a lot more control, vs. yeah, I can go nearly as fast without the dropper, but I'm also at significantly more risk of crashing and really screwing up my time. Risk vs. reward.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

leeboh said:


> What ev. Not buying it. Big logs, stand up. And muscle over. 6'4" rider here. Long legs. Seat not in the way.


That's cute....

6'4" almost 200lbs with short legs, as in jeans with 32 inseam. Seat is always in the damn way. My XC bike has a dropper, I can have my pedaling efficiency but then also agility when I need it. My fat bike doesn't, and that means a seat height that's about 22mm lower (BB to seat top), bars 10mm higher, 30T instead of 32T chain ring, 170mm cranks instead of 175mm, a shorter length seat that's not as comfortable, and I can do everything I can do on the XC bike, albeit slower pace on a bike that weighs almost 13lbs more and has a BB height almost the same height.

I'm not following fads or fashion, I'm riding 3-4 times a week and usually logging 2,000 or singletrack miles a year, and doing at least a couple all day type rides a year. The North-South Trail from the MA border to the shore in RI being one (boring as **** ride that I don't recommend LOL).

Tell me how you're more agile on a bike with a high seat post than you would be on a BMX bike, or a dirt jump bike, or an enduro bike or a down hill bike. Sure seems to be a lot of disciplines where getting the seat down and out of the way is beneficial. Hell, trials bikes don't even have one most of the time.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

yzedf said:


> That's cute....
> 
> 6'4" almost 200lbs with short legs, as in jeans with 32 inseam. Seat is always in the damn way. My XC bike has a dropper, I can have my pedaling efficiency but then also agility when I need it. My fat bike doesn't, and that means a seat height that's about 22mm lower (BB to seat top), bars 10mm higher, 30T instead of 32T chain ring, 170mm cranks instead of 175mm, a shorter length seat that's not as comfortable, and I can do everything I can do on the XC bike, albeit slower pace on a bike that weighs almost 13lbs more and has a BB height almost the same height.
> 
> ...


 What ev. My seat is not in my way. Your just riding wrong. Might be good for you, great. I don't dirt jump, DH or BMX, do you even shred bro? 13 lbs? Yikes. Thats so wrong. My Farley weighs less than my enduro. Short legs, thats the problem. Dude.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

life behind bars said:


> This is just tedious now.


It gets much better with a lot of liquor.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> i assume every bike in bc has a dropper? if not, your 'perspective' is meaningless.


Really? I think he just means they have a lot of steep, gnarly ****... Which should be common knowledge for anyone in MTB.



BumpityBump said:


> BC?
> 
> Backcountry, Whistler, ball crusher, please clarify????


We are on MTBR, discussing mountain biking... BC can only mean British Columbia.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> Adding ~300g to a 75,000g system doesn't change your uphill speed much. Climbing speed increases linearly with watts/kg until you hit 18mph or so. A dropper, which allows an XC racer to really attack the descents, can force a person without one, who might descend slower, to make mistakes, blow up trying to catch back up, or trying to get away before the descent.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Come to think of it, using disc brakes incurs a significant weight penalty over rim brakes in order to gain downhill control. I suppose that the same thing could be said of using a dropper.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

TheDwayyo said:


> painfully obvious answers


you are a quick one. nothing gets by you...


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## Joe_510 (May 19, 2014)

Your "normal" set post height is too low OP.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I have one bike with a dropper (my full suspension) and one bike without (my hardtail). I've ridden The Whole Enchilada, in Moab on my fully with the dropper and couldn't imagine doing that trail without it. If I could find a dropper for a 26.8 mm post diam., I would probably put one on my hardtail. 

It makes it way easier to hover over the rear wheel on steep descents and get back on without catching your shorts on the back of the saddle.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

I also find the dropper useful for other things, i.e.:

When taking the dog for a run and she's on a leash, I drop the saddle way down so if she yanks the leash, I can put both feet flat on the ground.

My droppost® was set for when I was running clipless, but now I have the







pedals (awesome, by the way), so I just lower my seat about 1/2" to compensate. If I need to raise it back up, I have that option. The Catalyst pedals are huge, so my feet are a little more forward than with clipless, so by using them, I can lower my center of gravity, a big bonus.

Some of my local trails are off-camber and are a bit downhill, so on these, I'll lower the seat about an inch. I rarely drop it more than that.

Plus, it's just cool. It's one of the things I show off on my bike when (non-bikers) ask about it.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Finch Platte said:


> I also find the dropper useful for other things, i.e.:
> 
> When taking the dog for a run and she's on a leash, I drop the saddle way down so if she yanks the leash, I can put both feet flat on the ground.
> 
> ...


Finch, your photo is missing some detail, like a lot of detail.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Finch, your photo is missing some detail, like a lot of detail.


Yeah, thanks. It was just a link to the Catalyst pedals, but when I went to edit it, there was just a blank space there.

Just another little glitch in the mtbr matrix. 

http://pedalinginnovations.com/


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

i love that they try to get all scientifical. it's a pedal ffs....


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Finch Platte said:


> Plus, it's just cool. It's one of the things I show off on my bike when (non-bikers) ask about it.


Next time a little kid is approaching to check out your bike, make sure the seat is all the way lowered. When he asks what the button on the handlebar is, tell 'em it's an eject button, and hit it. (be off the bike, not sitting on it)


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Finch, does it feel weird to pedal from the middle of your foot? Did you have to slide your saddle forward then lengthen the stem since your foot placement is further forward?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Finch Platte said:


> Yeah, thanks. It was just a link to the Catalyst pedals, but when I went to edit it, there was just a blank space there.
> 
> Just another little glitch in the mtbr matrix.
> 
> http://pedalinginnovations.com/


Hmmm . . finally a product I can stand on. If I was a platform pedal guy I'd give these a shot.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Nat said:


> Finch, does it feel weird to pedal from the middle of your foot? Did you have to slide your saddle forward then lengthen the stem since your foot placement is further forward?


No, actually it feels more natural to have the pedal cover a lot more of my foot. And no, I didn't notice any change in the reach, or felt like I needed to move the saddle forward.

DJ, I wasn't a flat pedal guy, either, I've ridden clipless since they were invented. These pedals changed my way of thinking.

Another benefit, you don't have to change into your riding shoes, you can use any pair of shoes you've got on.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> i love that they try to get all scientifical. it's a pedal ffs....


I know, right?

But it's a BIG pedal and they work great with my size 14 feet.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Finch Platte said:


> Another benefit, you don't have to change into your riding shoes, you can use any pair of shoes you've got on.


Finally, flip flops aren't just for motorcycles anymore!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Pics of Finch's pedals already, dammit.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Flat pedals vs ginormous flat pedals


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Buzzaro said:


> I feel the same way about pneumatic tires.


Ha !


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

If you can't ride clipless, you can't ride.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

JACKL said:


> If you can't ride clipless, you can't ride.


More like if flats but what you did there, I see it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

life behind bars said:


> Finally, flip flops aren't just for motorcycles anymore!


Lol. And Crocs, too!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Dang. You could stow your multi tool and snacks within those pedals.


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## Strafer (Jun 7, 2004)

Good pedals to have when learning to ride flats, easy to get back on when you come off them on jumps.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Today, I braked, shifted, adjusted my seatpost, and farted, all at the same time while going downhill.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Jayem said:


> Today, I braked, shifted, adjusted my seatpost, and farted, all at the same time while going downhill.


crashed hey?


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

YARD SALE!!

Sent from my kltedv using Tapatalk


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Today, I braked, shifted, adjusted my seatpost, and farted, all at the same time while going downhill.


Farting to adjust the seatpost sounds a damn good technique!

I'll try it, but I'm bringing a diaper.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

bachman1961 said:


> Farting to adjust the seatpost sounds a damn good technique!
> 
> I'll try it, but I'm bringing an adapter.


Hmm..pondering.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Nat said:


> Pics of Finch's pedals already, dammit.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

I can tell by the tone of many of these posts that some of you guys are of a certain age group. Wait until you have a few decades of riding under your belt, and one or two knee surgeries, and you'll realize that dropper posts have benefits well beyond what's being talked about here. When I have my seat slammed for downhills I'll often raise it up just to make 4 or 5 pedal cranks - again, wait until you have a couple knee surgeries.

I would also suggest that they have benefits for all day, marathon, backcountry type of riding. The key to big backcountry days, whether on a bike, skis, or hiking, is to be as efficient as possible with your movements and energy expenditure. Keeping your seat at the right position for the terrain is a real good way to do that and it nullifies any downside to the small bit of extra weight the post presents. 

You can now return to you d*** measuring contest.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

dir-T said:


> I can tell by the tone of many of these posts that some of you guys are of a certain age group. Wait until you have a few decades of riding under your belt, and one or two knee surgeries, and you'll realize that dropper posts have benefits well beyond what's being talked about here.
> 
> I would also suggest that they have benefits for all day, marathon, backcountry type of riding. The key to big backcountry days, whether on a bike, skis, or hiking, is to be as efficient as possible with your movements and energy expenditure. Keeping your seat at the right position for the terrain is a real good way to do that and it nullifies any downside to the small bit of extra weight the post presents.
> 
> You can now return to you d*** measuring contest.


I missed that contest, were the photos deleted? Hopefully so.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

dir-T said:


> I can tell by the tone of many of these posts that some of you guys are of a certain age group. Wait until you have a few decades of riding under your belt, and one or two knee surgeries, and you'll realize that dropper posts have benefits well beyond what's being talked about here...


I was under the impression that the posts supporting the droppers were from the younger riders and those against droppers were from the old dogs who didn't wish to learn new tricks.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

sgltrak said:


> I was under the impression that the posts supporting the droppers were from the younger riders and those against droppers were from the old dogs who didn't wish to learn new tricks.


Get Off my Lawn before I call the Cops!


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

sgltrak said:


> I was under the impression that the posts supporting the droppers were from the younger riders and those against droppers were from the old dogs who didn't wish to learn new tricks.


define "old dogs". I know guys who ride that are in their 50's and 60's who adopted Droppers a while ago and love them.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

All my friends from 19 to 73 ride droppers, age has nothing to do with it.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

it really comes down to early adapters vs late adapters. soon droppers will be the standard like disc brakes and shokkers. those were once debated ad nauseam as well...


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

sgltrak said:


> I was under the impression that the posts supporting the droppers were from the younger riders and those against droppers were from the old dogs who didn't wish to learn new tricks.


I'm not sure how age is supposed to figure in, but as far as I can tell, posts supporting droppers might be more prone to failure than the traditional posts.


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## TrailGoat (Sep 6, 2016)

I have a dropper, its nice and I like it, but not life changing. There are times when they have huge advantages, but some people act like they would cut off an arm before giving up their dropper....

Just like with bikes in general, most people over by, then hype themselves up over what they bought to make themselves feel like they didn't waste money.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> and shokkers. those were once debated ad nauseam as well...


Not in my house. It was pretty much, "honey would you like me to...". "NO, absolutely not".


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Cornfield said:


> View attachment 1138782


Ha!!!


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Vibram is branching out into mtb I see.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Barefoot lifestyle "types" can also insert Correct Toes toe separators into the pedals - to keep your pedals healthy.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Travis Bickle said:


> All my friends from 19 to 73 ride droppers, age has nothing to do with it.


Mostly the old guys that I know run them.
Most of the young guys can barely be bothered with gears, let along fancy over-complicated seatposts. They just get on and hammer.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Number 2 for $400, Alex. 

Giving, Webster definition:

1] To grant (permission, opportunity, etc.) to someone:
Give me a chance.

2] To impart or communicate:
to give advice. The thread that just keeps on giving.

3] To set forth or show; present; offer:
He gave no reason for his lateness.

4] To pay or transfer possession to another in exchange for something:
They gave five dollars for the picture. He gave me the car for $800.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Just like the Herpes, this thread just keeps on giving.


Fixed


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## mattyice (Dec 31, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> Mostly the old guys that I know run them.
> Most of the young guys can barely be bothered with gears, let along fancy over-complicated seatposts. They just get on and hammer.


Your 1x11 is funny to me, old man.

Although if I had a dropper I bet I could use it in a hard hit, manual and save my scrotum some grief.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


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## dddd (Jun 7, 2016)

Ok, what about droppers on hard-tails, do they make any good ones that also feature suspension? I dislike riding my PLUS hardtail with a rigid post so have been using a plain old suspension post.

I just found a $99 KS dropper also with 1" of suspension action and remote as features. Size offered is 27.2mm, which happens to fit my bike.
It needs a bellows/boot to keep dirt out in my opinion, so I'll need to make an old fork boot fit over the slider before fitting it onto my hardtail.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

dddd said:


> Ok, what about droppers on hard-tails, do they make any good ones that also feature suspension? I dislike riding my PLUS hardtail with a rigid post so have been using a plain old suspension post.
> 
> I just found a $99 KS dropper also with 1" of suspension action and remote as features. Size offered is 27.2mm, which happens to fit my bike.
> It needs a bellows/boot to keep dirt out in my opinion, so I'll need to make an old fork boot fit over the slider before fitting it onto my hardtail.


Rockshox Reverb, just lower and pick it up by the seat a couple of times, wah la instant suspension dropper post. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

tuckerjt07 said:


> wah la


I think the exclamation you were looking for is "voila!"


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

l'oiseau said:


> I think the exclamation you were looking for is "voila!"


lol, tucker's French is about as good as mine!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

At least he didn't type "viola."


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Wee wee!


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

l'oiseau said:


> I think the exclamation you were looking for is "voila!"


Hooked on phonics man, hooked on phonics.

Seriously though, that was post ride and post ride beers. My French is nonexistent at those times.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## AustinBiker (Aug 29, 2008)

Been riding 30 years - on mountain bikes, BMX before that. I learned without droppers and I'm glad because I like my xc bike light, with no dropper. I also love my trail bike with its dropper and use the dropper constantly when I want a 26# bike and all the fun it brings. I'm faster on most trails with the hardtail xc ride, because I *can* get out of the way of the seat, and most time is lost climbing. Not all riding is about beating your friends up the climbs though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

My steel rigid with dropper weighs 27lbs*. Not sure I ever noticed a difference in weight when I added it.

I suppose if you are one of those types you notice a difference in the weight of your water bottle as it loses weight during the ride...

For some reason, even when my bottle is empty at the end of a ride, climbing always feels harder than when the bottle was full at the start.




*That's not very light for XC and neither is 26lbs.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

General - always good for a morning chuckle...


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Cornfield said:


> View attachment 1138782


As much as I like those, Mr. Corn, here are mine.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Nat said:


> Dang. You could stow your multi tool and snacks within those pedals.


Hell of an idea!


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## Guest (May 25, 2017)

Nat said:


> Barefoot lifestyle "types" can also insert Correct Toes toe separators into the pedals - to keep your pedals healthy.


i suspect these would be beneficial while swimming as well yes??


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Hey yeah! You'd swim so fast. If sharks in the ocean were approaching you could pop those in place to swim away (or simply hop inside Finch's pedals for protection).


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Isn't there a thread on here where someone knew an engineer (of some sort) who basically turned a dropper post into an ejection seat?


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## Strafer (Jun 7, 2004)

Battery said:


> Isn't there a thread on here where someone knew an engineer (of some sort) who basically turned a dropper post into an ejection seat?


Was that for one of those bait bike prank in da hood?
I've seen the one with electrified saddle.


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## FerrouSS (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm racing the Growler this weekend. Without a dropper. Will I be ok? 
Or will I dnf due to lack of technology?
I'm so scared now.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

FerrouSS said:


> I'm racing the Growler this weekend. Without a dropper. Will I be ok?
> Or will I dnf due to lack of technology?
> I'm so scared now.


I'm thinking many of today's hipsters will be looking at you funny.


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## Bakudan (May 19, 2011)

Harry Mackenzie said:


> I went 4 years of riding before having a malfunction on my dropper. Cable finally snapped. Wasn't a big deal. I just had to stop and actuate it with my hand. Next day bought a cheap shift cable and was back in business. Only maintenance is a little wipe down and a little lube like once a month.
> 
> For me it's convenience. When I'm out riding I don't want to fiddle with my seatpost height.


Well wouldn't you know after posting this my seatpost had a massive malfunction after 4 years of heavy use. Bringing this to everyones attention so they can laugh at the irony of my initial reply. I even managed to completely bork it up while disassembling it.

RIP dropper post.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Harry Mackenzie said:


> Well wouldn't you know after posting this my seatpost had a massive malfunction after 4 years of heavy use. Bringing this to everyones attention so they can laugh at the irony of my initial reply. I even managed to completely bork it up while disassembling it.
> 
> RIP dropper post.


Bummer, that's why you should send it in to the manufacturer for service. What did you mess up?


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## Bakudan (May 19, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Bummer, that's why you should send it in to the manufacturer for service. What did you mess up?


It's fun working on the bike myself! Only thing I don't do myself is suspension and spoke replacement/wheel truing. I bent the **** out of a retaining ring type of thing and then in my haste I some how messed up the threads on the schrader valve. It's a Specialized Command Post Blacklite that came on my bike. Not sure if I want to fix or upgrade now.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Cornfield said:


> View attachment 1138782


Lol, that the Joe Dirt gas pedal???


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Finch Platte said:


> As much as I like those, Mr. Corn, here are mine.


Those pins must be sharp af!



J: said:


> Lol, that the Joe Dirt gas pedal???


Heck yeah brother!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Harry Mackenzie said:


> It's fun working on the bike myself! Only thing I don't do myself is suspension and spoke replacement/wheel truing. I bent the **** out of a retaining ring type of thing and then in my haste I some how messed up the threads on the schrader valve. It's a Specialized Command Post Blacklite that came on my bike. Not sure if I want to fix or upgrade now.


Maybe those parts are available, did you check?


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

leeboh said:


> What ev. My seat is not in my way. Your just riding wrong. Might be good for you, great. I don't dirt jump, DH or BMX, do you even shred bro? 13 lbs? Yikes. Thats so wrong. My Farley weighs less than my enduro. Short legs, thats the problem. Dude.


Dumb f. Am I riding wrong or do I have short legs? Make up your mind. Dude.

13 pounds more, as in XC is 24ish and fat bike is 37ish. Learn how to f-ing read. When you've got that covered we'll move on to forming opinions and learning how to state them without sounding like a f-ing tool.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

yzedf said:


> That's cute....
> 
> 6'4" almost 200lbs with short legs, as in jeans with 32 inseam. Seat is always in the damn way. My XC bike has a dropper, I can have my pedaling efficiency but then also agility when I need it. My fat bike doesn't, and that means a seat height that's about 22mm lower (BB to seat top), bars 10mm higher, 30T instead of 32T chain ring, 170mm cranks instead of 175mm, a shorter length seat that's not as comfortable, and I can do everything I can do on the XC bike, albeit slower pace on a bike that weighs almost 13lbs more and has a BB height almost the same height.
> 
> ...


I agree with the guy who disagreed with you. I leave logs in the trail that are much bigger than ones that can hit a chain ring. If they're on the ground I leave some 2 feet in diameter. We have roots that can hit your chain ring on some remote trails and the seat isn't in the way. It's all about technique. I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing contest, but you don't need your seat down to cross a tree.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

I think part of the issue here is that the normal height of the saddle varies from rider to rider. Before suspension posts I saw riders running everything from full leg extension to ridiculously squatted without changing it up. So when someone says "I have no problem clearing the saddle" they may be running it lower than others that run it pretty high for the climbing efficiency but don't lower it for the ride down.

For those folks that like to run it high (I was one) dropper posts rock. I hated having my saddle too low for the climb but also didn't want to fiddle with raising and lowering it. I've done plenty of steep drops with my belly/chest on the saddle or slightly above, especially on my old rigids. I prefer my gravity dropper thank you very much. Dropper posts allow the best of both worlds, nearly full extension for climbing, drop it for the down. Repeat.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Battery said:


> Isn't there a thread on here where someone knew an engineer (of some sort) who basically turned a dropper post into an ejection seat?


Yeah, yeah, I remember that one [said in Chris Farley voice].


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

BumpityBump said:


> So when someone says "I have no problem clearing the saddle" they may be running it lower than others that run it pretty high for the climbing efficiency but don't lower it for the ride down.


Or maybe it is about thigh gap.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

Here's a good reason for a dropper.

Mavic drops in new neutral service bikes for Tour de France | VeloNews.com



> The indelible image of Chris Froome running up Mont Ventoux at the 2016 Tour de France has inspired changes for the 2017 race. Mavic's fleet of neutral support bikes will feature specially designed KS dropper posts. This will enable riders to adjust saddle height when riding the unmistakable yellow Canyon Ultimate CF SL bikes. That's the biggest change, but not the only one.
> 
> "When I was looking for a dropper post, this was the first one I saw that had the lever beneath the saddle," says Chad Moore, Mavic's global brand manager. "They [KS] made us some custom posts to work on the road. And they made it so the post has a bit more range of height."
> 
> ...


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

upstateSC-rider said:


> Here's a good reason for a dropper.
> 
> "This should avoid the gangly, knees-out pedal stroke Froome endured on Ventoux."


Good idea. But isn't that the same way he looks on a perfectly fitted bike?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

sapva said:


> Good idea. But isn't that the same way he looks on a perfectly fitted bike?


Nah, it's his elbows that look funny then.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I asked myself, "what are the benefits of a rigid post"? I could only think of 2, first weight, but if I was that worried about weight I would ride a carbon rigid singlespeed. Second, reliability, but I have a rockshox collar, that will turn a reverb, or my KS into a rigid post, if it really craps the bed. Some say cost, but if you are worried about spending money mountain biking probable isn't the right hobby, try trail running.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

Travis Bickle said:


> I asked myself, "what are the benefits of a rigid post"? I could only think of 2, first weight, but if I was that worried about weight I would ride a carbon rigid singlespeed. Second, reliability, but I have a rockshox collar, that will turn a reverb, or my KS into a rigid post, if it really craps the bed. Some say cost, but if you are worried about spending money mountain biking probable isn't the right hobby, try trail running.


Rigid Posts Benefits are Over Exaggerated


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Travis Bickle said:


> I asked myself, "what are the benefits of a rigid post"? I could only think of 2,


3) simplicity, in the same way that some people prefer a rigid ss.
4) cost, not every mountain biker is a retired dentist and for a lot of people an extra $2-400 is kind of a big deal. Mountain biking might not be a sport for the poor but it shouldn't be so exclusionary that someone is shamed for not being able to afford the best tech.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Here we go again. 

Let's just say this and be done with it.

If you ride tedhnical steep terrain on a regular basis then a dropper is a beneficial addition to your bike. If you don't ride that type of terrain regularly then maybe a dropper is just some added weight, maintenance, money and crap added to your bars. 

You be the judge:

Yes, I "need" a dropper ✔

No, I don't "need" a dropper. ✔


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

If I were ever somehow forced to have just one, fixed saddle position, man, climbing would suck!


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

TheDwayyo said:


> View attachment 1137740
> 
> 
> I do ride steeps, drops and gap jumps regularly (usually all three on any given ride) and I've skipped rides because my dropper was broken. It is completely integral to my riding.


Right On! Thread could have been closed after this post.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

These drunken folks from down under seemed to nail the "preferences" angle:






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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

cjsb said:


> These drunken folks from down under seemed to nail the "preferences" angle:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Umm, not sure what you're meaning there. Friends of yours?


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

chazpat said:


> Umm, not sure what you're meaning there. Friends of yours?


Hah ! Kind of random there eh ? 

Maybe we just needed a segue.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

The worst thing about a full-hight saddle is that it will try to kick you off the bike when things get rowdy.

Not long ago I was managing well enough without a dropper. It can be done, no question, but life is a lot easier and safer with one. On Friday we did a stiff hill route that involved 2000ft of climbing, which of course means a wealth of descending too, but of course it's not a straight climb then a straight drop. You're up and down the hills like a roller coaster. Some of the climbs you can hardly push the bike up and scraping your jewels with the back tyre on the steep drops. 

This was the first time I've done this route with a dropper and boy does it make life easier. You can pop the seat up for a short climb then get it out of the way to drop down the other side. Yes, you can do the ride without a dropper but no matter what you do it's a compromise. 

If you drop the seat a few inches to make descending safer you are hurt when trying to climb, especially the really steep stuff. If you leave the seat at full hight it makes steep drops dangerous and difficult. Even if you do slide behind the saddle it's still in your way, limiting your movement and just waiting for an opportunity to try and punch you over the bars. We've all experienced it or seen it happen. 

And when a decent dropper adds so little weight to the bike it really is a case of why not? I still don't think the tech is fully mature, I would like to see better reliability, but hopefully we'll get there soon and bikes without droppers will be a rare sight.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

cjsb said:


> Right On! Thread could have been closed after this post.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Nahhh, keep the thread alive. After reading elsewhere about terrorist attacks, unstable corrupt governments, and people getting murdered for the color of their skin or what they wear on their head, it's a nice distraction to come here and see guys vehemently arguing over the merits of being able to move their saddle up and down a few inches.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Nat said:


> Nahhh, keep the thread alive. After reading elsewhere about terrorist attacks, unstable corrupt governments, and people getting murdered for the color of their skin or what they wear on their head, it's a nice distraction to come here and see guys vehemently arguing over the merits of being able to move their saddle up and down a few inches.


Absolutely, thats what MTBR is for.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Nat said:


> Nahhh, keep the thread alive. After reading elsewhere about terrorist attacks, unstable corrupt governments, and people getting murdered for the color of their skin or what they wear on their head, it's a nice distraction to come here and see guys vehemently arguing over the merits of being able to move their saddle up and down a few inches.


I was just complimenting the response. not literally seeking thread closed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

cjsb said:


> I was just complimenting the response. not literally seeking thread closed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know man, I was making a commentary/joke.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I've seen threads closed / moved or binned for far less.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> The worst thing about a full-hight saddle is that it will try to kick you off the bike when things get rowdy.
> 
> Not long ago I was managing well enough without a dropper. It can be done, no question, but life is a lot easier and safer with one. On Friday we did a stiff hill route that involved 2000ft of climbing, which of course means a wealth of descending too, but of course it's not a straight climb then a straight drop. You're up and down the hills like a roller coaster. Some of the climbs you can hardly push the bike up and scraping your jewels with the back tyre on the steep drops.
> 
> ...


Agreed, they are especially helpful for those "downhills of a thousand climbs"

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

jeremy283 said:


> This is beginning to be my take on it. I've been dropping my seatpost with a quick release on every downhill run/jump park run but recently I was doing some urban drops (stair sets) and jumps. Later I realized I was running my seatpost at the normal height. No issues at the time and I didn't even realize I hadn't dropped my seat.
> 
> Sure they slightly get in the way (but not bad) at normal height when running a REAL steep downhill but unless you're going down VERY STEEP inclines regularly I don't see a normal seat post height as an issue. Even at normal height it hardly gets in the way cause when I lean back I'm behind the seat anyway.
> 
> ...


 Not everyone has your skillz and confidence on the trails. Sounded more like a sour grapes than an observation to me.

The only thing high seatpost setup is good for is on the climb. On rolling terrain you can drop it an inch or 2, on steep descend and technical sections you'd need to drop them as low as it would allow or as low as your personal riding style, as so,e people like to use their thigh to guide the bike through the saddle. Having all of this adjustment on the fly at the touch of a handlebar remote is priceless on the trails.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

mimi1885 said:


> Not everyone has your skillz and confidence on the trails. Sounded more like a sour grapes than an observation to me.


Please explain how simply sharing his experience qualifies as 'sour grapes' just because it's different that yours.

What a nonsensical thing to say.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Do you know what's truly over-exaggerated?

My abilities in the bedroom.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

My post has been out for warranty for the last 3 weeks. I miss it sooooo MUCH! Feverishly checking shipping everyday. UUUUHHHHGGGGG they just pushed it from Friday to Monday. Deep breath, deep breath.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

Curveball said:


> Do you know what's truly over-exaggerated?
> 
> My abilities in the bedroom.


Nice share... at this sausage-fest.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> Please explain how simply sharing his experience qualifies as 'sour grapes' just because it's different that yours.
> 
> What a nonsensical thing to say.


Op don't even have a dropper post or tried one. Quick release will drop the post but doesn't qualify as a dropper post.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

alexbn921 said:


> My post has been out for warranty for the last 3 weeks. I miss it sooooo MUCH! Feverishly checking shipping everyday. UUUUHHHHGGGGG they just pushed it from Friday to Monday. Deep breath, deep breath.


Have you gotten it back yet. What kind and how much to service it? $50?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Have you gotten it back yet. What kind and how much to service it? $50?


It was a 9point8 that was getting scratched internally. No charge free shipping both ways.

My LEV started to bob 2 months ago and I had to pay shipping there. Everything else was covered under warranty.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Thanks, good to hear it was covered.


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## burtjason (Oct 31, 2015)

On my fatty....I'd give up front suspension before I'd give up my dropper .


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm trying to understand the proper way to use dropper posts. I have a rigid 29+ and a FS high end trail 29er mtb, both with dropper posts. I have yet to feel the urge to drop the saddle, either all the way or just partially. The saddle is a comforting point of reference for me on decents, and the preferred spot for my butt when climbing. I have opted to pedal standing up and leaning forward on a few short steep climbs. Not sure why I should drop the saddle. Guess I'm not very knowledgeable about riding off pavement.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

DeadGrandpa said:


> I'm trying to understand the proper way to use dropper posts. I have a rigid 29+ and a FS high end trail 29er mtb, both with dropper posts. I have yet to feel the urge to drop the saddle, either all the way or just partially. The saddle is a comforting point of reference for me on decents, and the preferred spot for my butt when climbing. I have opted to pedal standing up and leaning forward on a few short steep climbs. Not sure why I should drop the saddle. Guess I'm not very knowledgeable about riding off pavement.


Its great for technical riding, especially down hills. They take some getting used to. Check out this video:


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

While i've said in pretty much every dropper thread, for 99% of my riding, don't need one, fairly easy XC stuff that Im happy to ride on my old 90's XC bike with the post waaay up (heck even my old 80's bike with a flex stem). Sure here the odd spot where a dropper could be good for 5 sec, but I can live without one (have tried one)...

But...

Some of the trails Ive been riding the last couple of weeks, geez I could have used one. Yes i managed to make it through them, but seat down, much better. And then last nights race, I wish i'd have put the one i have on (still on loan form a mate, just haven't gotten around to giving it back), I still would have struggled, but would have been a million times better, so a new fancy pants one has shot to the top of the buy list.


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## nauc (Sep 9, 2009)

i grew up racing bmx, with seat slammed and angled up. then when i got my mtb, took forever to get used to the seat high and flat. then rode the new Chameleon with a dropper, holy crap droppers are NICE.. even on flat ground if fun to mess with the height, giving different body parts a rest, working others. example, its nice to lower the seat on flat ground, giving my shoulders a break, or lowering the seat, to work different leg muscles

dropper posts ftmfw !


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Just got one myself on my new bike and yes...I think the benefits for my type of riding are a bit over-blown. Just regular ol' XC type riding with some tech, I just don't use it much but the times I do, it's nice to have I suppose. I really only need to drop it about half way at most (it's a 125mm) to gain what I need in terms of clearance on drops etc. When it's all the way down, the bike feels out of control with no seat to squeeze between my thighs and in fact I almost wrecked jumping it that way..ahahaha. I'm old-school and learned to ride with a seat high up so for me, not a huge deal to not have one. The proliferation of droppers is just part of the whole #enduro27.54lyfegnarwhatever movement that has pushed longer travel trail bikes into the mainstream sold on the notion that every average joe will be riding manuals and casing doubles much like in the '90s the #xclycralyfe was all the rage and folks just farting around were on slammed stem super light race bikes that weren't really appropriate for casual riding...the pendulum has just swung the other way.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

DeadGrandpa said:


> I'm trying to understand the proper way to use dropper posts. I have a rigid 29+ and a FS high end trail 29er mtb, both with dropper posts. I have yet to feel the urge to drop the saddle, either all the way or just partially. The saddle is a comforting point of reference for me on decents, and the preferred spot for my butt when climbing. I have opted to pedal standing up and leaning forward on a few short steep climbs. Not sure why I should drop the saddle. Guess I'm not very knowledgeable about riding off pavement.


Do you ever go an do Park riding where you take a lift up and do 99% downhill back to the Lift line? I do, and when I do that my seat is down lower all day because I do not need to pedal much and for drops and such I have my butt further back over the rear tire for those sorts of obstacles and the back of my thighs is resting on the seat.

Where I live and do most of my riding I love being able to quickly drop the seat down into the same sort of position as I use on my DH bike at the Parks, and then pop it back up quickly when I need to pedal more efficiently.

On a normal ride I move my seat dozens of times during the course of my ride. Check out my last ride from this week, if you look at the elevation chart I am going up and down a few times during the ride, for me I see great benefits as I used to stop and lower my seat at the top of all these climbs and then stop and raise it at the bottom:

https://www.strava.com/activities/1255698203


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## s0ul_chicken (Aug 1, 2013)

jeremy283 said:


> It's good to see insight regarding droppers. Nearly everyone swears by them but the potential for failures is another reason I have not taken the plunge.


It is just like any other component, maintenance is always key. I didn't realize this until my dropper stopped working due to crud and sand getting the lever assembly at the top of the dropper. I got creative and made up a sleeve to go over the lever assembly and stantion and I haven't had an issue with my dropper in over two and a half years since! All three of my bikes have droppers and sleeves to protect them now, and I still haven't had a failure on any of them.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

DeadGrandpa said:


> I'm trying to understand the proper way to use dropper posts. I have a rigid 29+ and a FS high end trail 29er mtb, both with dropper posts. I have yet to feel the urge to drop the saddle, either all the way or just partially. The saddle is a comforting point of reference for me on decents, and the preferred spot for my butt when climbing. I have opted to pedal standing up and leaning forward on a few short steep climbs. Not sure why I should drop the saddle. Guess I'm not very knowledgeable about riding off pavement.


My general guideline:
Climbing and smooth, straight flat terrain: seat all the way up to roadie height
Mildly technical or twisty flat terrain: lower seat about 1cm-2cm
Very technical terrain where you might want to pedal through: lower seat about halfway
Jumps, drops, gnar-core terrain where you're pushing your limits: drop that seat all the way down


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I see the advantage of a dropper in many situations, but those situations do not occur often enough in my riding to outweigh the the higher cost, weight, and potential maintenance / failure issues that come along with a dropper. Our trails and my riding style is not so extreme that I would find myself using a dropper enough to make it worthwhile. I need to gain minutes on the climbs rather than seconds on the descents. On local trails, I fall in the top 5-10% on the descent times, but find myself in the top 20-25% on climb times.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Dropper posts only work and work well when you use it. The more you use it the better and cheaper per use. Do I need to adjust my post, no but since I have them on all my bikes I use them religiously, 30-50 times a ride. 

If you don’t need them then take them off and put some light weight post on. My Bike-Fu is not that good, probably because everytime I use it it works really well for me on the trails. I don’t need one to ride but I wouldn’t ride without one.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

mimi1885 said:


> Dropper posts only work and work well when you use it. The more you use it the better and cheaper per use. Do I need to adjust my post, no but since I have them on all my bikes I use them religiously, 30-50 times a ride.
> 
> If you don't need them then take them off and put some light weight post on. My Bike-Fu is not that good,probably because everytime I use it it works really well for me on the trails. I don't need one to ride but I wouldn't ride without one.


:Church:

Sent from my kltedv using Tapatalk


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

Nat said:


> My general guideline:
> Climbing and smooth, straight flat terrain: seat all the way up to roadie height
> Mildly technical or twisty flat terrain: lower seat about 1cm-2cm
> Very technical terrain where you might want to pedal through: lower seat about halfway
> Jumps, drops, gnar-core terrain where you're pushing your limits: drop that seat all the way down


Have come to the same conclusion over time after getting used to having one. Initially I would try to drop for every little feature. But dropping the seat just an inch or so for long stretches doesn't take away all that much power to the pedals, and it also helps to remind you when you are just being too lazy to lift your backside off the saddle.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Seat up: suspension travel in legs limited.

Seat down: more suspension travel in legs unlocked.

Dropper post is sort of like a remote lockout for your leg suspension. Having a seat fully extended for pedaling is likely a bit more efficient than any compromise that has the seat lowered a bit for more leg suspension.

If you are gangly enough to use your legs behind the saddle, you probably don't need it. If you aren't physically gifted enough to use your legs behind the saddle, but are fine a small amount of leg suspension, and don't see a need for an additional 4-6" worth of travel, you probably don't need it. 

If you're on a short travel bike and want to ride challenging terrain as fast as riding a bike with more travel, a dropper can help with that. Skill includes being able to use your legs suspension efficiently. Your brain should have custom tuned your leg susp damping, from all the riding experience.

I think the biggest benefit I get from a dropper, is the additional height I get out of my bunnyhops. It allows me to get over things like fallen trees easier with the seat dropped, and continue on nonstop with my seat back at pedaling height to maintain flow. At fully extended seat height, I can barely bunnyhop anything bigger than a curb reliably, but I can bunnyhop a log at least twice the size of a curb with the seat fully dropped.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I'm a short little turd and can use my legs as suspension just fine with the seatpost up - again, this is all a technique that folks can learn without a dropper and that folks have done for years. Does the dropper make it easier? Sure! Do I have a dropper? Yes! Do I need a dropper to shred? No!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I've recently gotten my first dropper and I am enjoying it. I mostly just drop it an inch or two but that's enough to give me the confidence to bomb new lines on my short travel bike and feel safer doing it and to raise the post higher for climbing. It just adds another dimension to my riding. I probably won't put one on my hardtail, I'll just ride it as I always have. I don't want to become one of those "I won't ride without a dropper" guys. I enjoy different riding experiences, sometimes single speed, sometimes CX on singletrack; it's all good.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^yep. I probably should have gotten the KS Lev Inegra carbon with 65mm of drop, would have been more appropriate for my riding etc. and easier to deal with plus lighter too.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

net wurker said:


> If I were ever somehow forced to have just one, fixed saddle position, man, climbing would suck!


 You drop for the climb?


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Got no drop, maybe I will demo one. All my riding is ridges and small hills, and back up again. You drop for a 30' decent? Got way long legs. Won one in a raffle, sold it.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

leeboh said:


> You drop for the climb?


 No, I raise it for the climb.


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## JJ Welks (Jan 15, 2015)

My (0.02) 15' Anthem came with one, I switched it for a rigid carbon after 6 months. I mainly didn't like having to press down on the seat with my butt to get the dropper to drop, so if I ever do switch back it won't be of that sort. Maybe if I had a better model dropper to begin I would still be rockin one.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Thas sum funny shiat.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

JJ Welks said:


> My (0.02) 15' Anthem came with one, I switched it for a rigid carbon after 6 months. I mainly didn't like having to press down on the seat with my butt to get the dropper to drop, so if I ever do switch back it won't be of that sort. Maybe if I had a better model dropper to begin I would still be rockin one.


You don't push down on the seat with your butt. Well maybe as you pointed out, with a cheap dropper you do. A good dropper: You push the lever and hold it open as your butt controls the level, once your butt has decided the desired level [it does have a brain] you then release the lever to actuate the lock position. This happens in a split second mind you. Yes your butt has a brain.


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

JJ Welks said:


> My (0.02) 15' Anthem came with one, I switched it for a rigid carbon after 6 months. I mainly didn't like having to press down on the seat with my butt to get the dropper to drop, so if I ever do switch back it won't be of that sort. Maybe if I had a better model dropper to begin I would still be rockin one.


Only 1 dropper post that's currently in the market fits both your requirements - Magura Vyron Elect
It's a wireless electronic dropper post, all movement on the post is controlled by remote!

Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

leeboh said:


> Got no drop, maybe I will demo one. All my riding is ridges and small hills, and back up again. You drop for a 30' decent? Got way long legs. Won one in a raffle, sold it.


I guess it would depend on how gnarly the 30 foot decent is.... Boston is pretty flat compared to SoCal.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> You don't push down on the seat with your butt. Well maybe as you pointed out, with a cheap dropper you do. A good dropper: You push the lever and hold it open as your butt controls the level, once your butt has decided the desired level [it does have a brain] you then release the lever to actuate the lock position. This happens is a split second mind you. Yes your butt has a brain.


This would be great besides the fact that in pretty much any and every instance I can think of where I'd want to drop the seat on the fly, I'm out of the saddle. One of the reasons my droppers ended up in the parts pile instead of on the bike: when I need them, it's too late to use them.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Klurejr said:


> I guess it would depend on how gnarly the 30 foot decent is.... Boston is pretty flat compared to SoCal.


Boston area trails tend to be pretty technical.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes, I want a dropper that drops without me pushing it down with my butt. That's what I don't like about it. When I need the dropper dropped, I am in the standing position so sitting back down, even for a few seconds, is a PITA. I want it to drop down to a set level (a few inches) when I hit the button, and then back up.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> This would be great besides the fact that in pretty much any and every instance I can think of where I'd want to drop the seat on the fly, I'm out of the saddle. One of the reasons my droppers ended up in the parts pile instead of on the bike: when I need them, it's too late to use them.


I can see your point. Though that's pretty rare. It would have to be a new trail to you and you really have to get caught by surprise because you'd be scanning the trail far in advance anyways.

At the end of the day, dropper post have come a long way from the day of under the saddle activation to handlebar remote and 31 flavors of variety. Soon it can be voice activated I hope.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> Yes, I want a dropper that drops without me pushing it down with my butt. That's what I don't like about it. When I need the dropper dropped, I am in the standing position so sitting back down, even for a few seconds, is a PITA. I want it to drop down to a set level (a few inches) when I hit the button, and then back up.


Been on a dropper since the original Gravity Dopper, and this is way down on the list of things I want, pretty much a non issue to me. It might be nice to have, but I wouldn't sacrifice reliability, smoothness, and user rebuildability. This feature will come out eventually, but is gonna add complexity, along with a possible source of problems.

I am riding with a 160mm Bikeyoke Revive, and it just may be the holy grail of droppers.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bikeyoke-revive-dropper-post-review.html


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

DIRTJUNKIE;13403724 Yes your butt has a brain. ;)[/QUOTE said:


> This explains how my butt-brain lets out a loud fart when I'm out to dinner with the wife while my head-brain screams NOOOOO!


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

TiGeo said:


> Yes, I want a dropper that drops without me pushing it down with my butt. That's what I don't like about it. When I need the dropper dropped, I am in the standing position so sitting back down, even for a few seconds, is a PITA. I want it to drop down to a set level (a few inches) when I hit the button, and then back up.


I agree completely. I have a dropper on my 5" FS bike, but don't on my 2 HT bikes. If I am rolling fast and come to an isolated drop or feature where I could use it many times I can't lower it in time to make use of it. The act of lowering it upsets balance to some degree since I have get lower and push the seat down rather than just stand. It forces me to sit when I want to stand. Less than ideal. So in these cases I just tend to ride them seat up. When have section of trail I know wheel or can see will be better seat down it is great.

Overall it is really handy on certain terrain, but not required most of the time.

As for how frequent that happens. It happens alot more than you might think because I ride a variety of trails and can't remember each every feature and what might be little drop vs a big drop. I don't ride the same 5 mile loop over and over again.


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

From the March 1986 issue of the Fat-Tire Flyer.









Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## ntm1973 (Jan 7, 2013)

TiGeo said:


> Just got one myself on my new bike and yes...I think the benefits for my type of riding are a bit over-blown. Just regular ol' XC type riding with some tech, I just don't use it much but the times I do, it's nice to have I suppose. I really only need to drop it about half way at most (it's a 125mm) to gain what I need in terms of clearance on drops etc. When it's all the way down, the bike feels out of control with no seat to squeeze between my thighs and in fact I almost wrecked jumping it that way..ahahaha. I'm old-school and learned to ride with a seat high up so for me, not a huge deal to not have one. The proliferation of droppers is just part of the whole #enduro27.54lyfegnarwhatever movement that has pushed longer travel trail bikes into the mainstream sold on the notion that every average joe will be riding manuals and casing doubles much like in the '90s the #xclycralyfe was all the rage and folks just farting around were on slammed stem super light race bikes that weren't really appropriate for casual riding...the pendulum has just swung the other way.


This fits me to a "T" I have a dropper and use it occasionally when jumping or screwing around but I am so used to gripping the seat with my legs that I only lower it an inch or 2 for most decents.

That said, I ride clip less pedals but when I briefly tried flat pedals, the dropper was invaluable for me using my weight to manipulate the bike. I know people will scoff and say that I have bad technique if I can't bunny hop without clip less pedals. However, I am not saying that I can't bunny hop without clipless only that I can't bunny hop high enough with flat pedals and a tall seat.

Sent from my SM-S902L using Tapatalk


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Jack Burns, if only I would have had that from 87 on, I would have a lot more original skin. Even back the 125mm was the minimum. Cobra skin, where do I get that.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

the_joe said:


> Its great for technical riding, especially down hills. They take some getting used to. Check out this video:


Thanks for the link. That video went a long way towards explaining why I haven't had the urge to drop my saddle. That is not my riding style at all. I actually try to keep my tires in contact with the ground at all times.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Rode with my dropper for the fourth time after work today at the trail system that I visit fourth mostly commonly. After riding the XC trails, just dropping it an inch or two as mentioned, I decided to cut over to the Free Ride Area. I've ridden this type stuff a good bit with a rigid post on some other trails but haven't ridden these trails much at all (and I ride it all very mildly, mostly keeping the rubber on the ground). So I took advantage of the dropper and dropped it all the way. I hit a couple of spots that it definitely saved my bacon, one for sure I would have crashed if I'd been fully extended, though to be honest, I probably wouldn't have ridden these spots prior. Sure, I could have manually lowered my saddle but I climbed up and descended (they are very short trails) four times so it would have been annoying to mess with.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

JoePAz said:


> As for how frequent that happens. It happens alot more than you might think because I ride a variety of trails and can't remember each every feature and what might be little drop vs a big drop. I don't ride the same 5 mile loop over and over again.


That's where I differ. My dropper is down except when I need it up, not vice versa. Since at no time do I ever need it up except seated pedaling, my seat is down. If I'm climbing, it's not likely I'll hit an obstacle, so the seat can come up. But the seat goes all the way down immediately any time I'm not planning on being seated.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

DeadGrandpa said:


> Well, first of all, I don't speak strava. I've no interest in...
> 
> -snip-


Yuck.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

DeadGrandpa said:


> Blah blah judgmental holier than thou post


Take it from someone who is faster than you, up and down a hill, you should take your ball and go home.

I'm fast, really fast, up a hill. Also fast, really fast, down a hill. My heart rate is near max on a DH (my last fun trail was a 20 minute DH run, where most people take 45 minutes).


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Luddites gonna ludd.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

Sidewalk said:


> Take it from someone who is faster than you, up and down a hill, you should take your ball and go home.
> 
> I'm fast, really fast, up a hill. Also fast, really fast, down a hill. My heart rate is near max on a DH (my last fun trail was a 20 minute DH run, where most people take 45 minutes).


And if those measures are important to you, then by all means, revel in those measures. "Faster = Better" in many sports, in many cultures, for many but not for all. Religious differences. Maybe those who are slower are simply in less of a hurry. Or maybe we value not crashing more than speed. No ride is a race to me. I wasn't judging those who strava; I simply don't value the measuring. I definitely was judging those who downhill only. And baby pictures. I hate baby pictures.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

lol. You can tell it's friday and people have started drinking.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

mimi1885 said:


> I can see your point. Though that's pretty rare. It would have to be a new trail to you and you really have to get caught by surprise because you'd be scanning the trail far in advance anyways.
> 
> At the end of the day, dropper post have come a long way from the day of under the saddle activation to handlebar remote and 31 flavors of variety. Soon it can be voice activated I hope.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I'm usually out of the saddle unless I'm climbing or just coasting along, and a lot of the time the saddle is at a middle height to provide an occasional pedaling platform. In those cases I'll usually want to drop the saddle all the way for a corner or feature, but I'm already off the saddle. It doesn't mean that I don't have time to drop my saddle, but the process can be awkward when you have to sit down when you might rather not.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Sidewalk said:


> That's where I differ. My dropper is down except when I need it up, not vice versa. Since at no time do I ever need it up except seated pedaling, my seat is down. If I'm climbing, it's not likely I'll hit an obstacle, so the seat can come up. But the seat goes all the way down immediately any time I'm not planning on being seated.


Yeah, I could never, ever ride that way.
Different ways of dong things and riding I guess. As much as I think the dropper is an important tool, every bike I have has a lockout on it and i wouldn't...er prefer not to... ride without one, but a dropper I can live without...


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Disclaimer:

The height of droppers and the fun arising from them, can go down as well as up, and is not guaranteed, which means that a rider may not get back what they invested. Past experience is not necessarily a guide to future performance. Changes in terrain may also cause a dropper to fluctuate in value. Levels of satisfaction depend on an investor's individual circumstances and the reliability of the post.

Any information contained within this website should not be deemed to constitute investment advice and should not be relied upon as the basis for a decision to buy a dropper, or as the basis for any financial or investment decision. Riders should always seek professional advice in regard to the suitability of any dropper. MTBR accepts no liability for any dissatisfaction or consequential grumbling exhibited by investors acting upon any information contained within this website.

Opinions given within this website are mostly bullshit so may be subject to change without notice.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)




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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

This is basically the same as long vs. short boards in surfing. Just a totally different style of riding that has emerged that dropper posts favor but the rest of us can have some benefit from. Flat pedals are a similar deal. More of a technical/bike park type style...some almost reminds of trials riding in the '90s. Whatever. Ride your bike, have fun, don't tell others how to ride their bike and have fun. The end.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

TiGeo said:


> Whatever. Ride your bike, have fun, don't tell others how to ride their bike and have fun. The end.


Don't tell me what not to tell others 

Proof conclusive, a dropper will save you 17 seconds. 




The end.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> Disclaimer:
> 
> The height of droppers and the fun arising from them, can go down as well as up, and is not guaranteed, which means that a rider may not get back what they invested. Past experience is not necessarily a guide to future performance. Changes in terrain may also cause a dropper to fluctuate in value. Levels of satisfaction depend on an investor's individual circumstances and the reliability of the post.
> 
> ...


What an uplifting post!


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> This is basically the same as long vs. short boards in surfing. Just a totally different style of riding that has emerged that dropper posts favor but the rest of us can have some benefit from. Flat pedals are a similar deal. More of a technical/bike park type style...some almost reminds of trials riding in the '90s. Whatever. Ride your bike, have fun, don't tell others how to ride their bike and have fun. The end.


Not sure what surfing and flats have to do with droppers. A riders appreciation of droppers is more location based than anything. Clipsless and flats are split here, and are not really an indicator of speed amongst the people I know. Only one friend who surfs, and he hasn't done it for a couple of years, since he almost knocked himself out (don't see the relevancy). The only locals that I know who don't use droppers are a couple of kids, and that is a cost issue, other than that they are ubiquitous. It's not an age thing either, the two oldest guys I know are in their 70's and ride with droppers. I'm sure lots of other places they are not so common. Thankfully, finding a reliable dropper was one of the biggest problems I've faced lately.

Threads like this are here for entertainment, and I enjoy reading all the BS.


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## Gallo (Nov 17, 2013)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Back in 1997 I started to use a Hite Rite to drop my saddle, something I used to do back in the 80's. I again fell in love with having something to drop and raise my seatpost to its original height, and wondered why I did stop using one for 10 years. I decided to and made a couple of Hite Rites that would work with modern frame designs( separate seat collar, instead of a brazed on collar) so the seatpost wouldn't rotate. In 2000, I came up with a plan to introduce a now converted Hite Rite, so I gave Joe Breeze ( mtb legend and Hite Rite patent holder) about my idea. He liked it and we figured on $5 a piece for the HR's that he had in storage, but said he needed to talk to his partner about my plan... anyway, the plan didn't work, so after some thought, I made a " modern day" adjustable seatpost and called it the Elevator Shaft, which I made a very small run back in 2001/2002. I sold my company, Hurricane Components, later on in 2002 and foolishly shelved the project. A couple of years later Gravity Dropper was introduced claiming to the first...
> Anyways after all that, the reason I didn't make a bigger production of the Elevator Shaft was because of all the negative comments, such as, " I'm fixing a problem that doesn't exist, or " your making something simple complex" or " too heavy, or " it cost too much" they were $200 back then. I knew the benefits back then, but trying to convince the riders back then was brutal!


Now that is some cools stuff right there. You should share some of the old pics. I oogled over a high right in the eighties but never pulled the trigger. Love the dropper but can ride without one if need be ie its broken would prefer not to


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> Don't tell me what not to tell others
> 
> Proof conclusive, a dropper will save you 17 seconds.
> 
> ...


Either that or 27.5+ tires will save you 17 seconds. I would want to see a back to back test done on the same bike with and without a dropper.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Oh yeah, life goes on, long after the thrill of a dropper is gone.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

DeadGrandpa said:


> Well, first of all, I don't speak strava. I've no interest in documenting the times, distances and elevations of MY OWN rides. Other people's rides are of less interest to me than baby pictures, but if you find it meaningful, that's ok.
> I do take issue with the concept of the "bike park" where you ride a lift uphill and coast downhill to the lift line, where you do it again and... This brings up a difference of bicycling philosophy, or as some would say, "religious differences". You see, I don't recognize that you are actually bicycling unless you are pedaling uphill. Everyone knows that the "bi" in bicycle means "two", and it generally is taken to mean "two wheels". It means that, of course, but in addition, I believe it also means (or should mean) "uphill and downhill". You of course, can ride the way you want, downhill only while masturbating all the way, but to me, that's not bicycling.
> Someone made a reference to BMX riding. Are people still doing that stupid whirling and looping and calling that bicycling, too? To what end? To see who crashes the least, or the most spectacularly? My stepson used to do those tricks when he was a kid. He finally quit when he crashed enough and figured something out. He's 45 now.
> Nope, I still don't think I'll have a use for my dropper post anytime soon. I will continue to evaluate the supposed advantages of them on my rides, however. After all, I haven't been riding mtb very long. I only just made the change from toe clips and straps to platforms with spikes. Hey! Get off my lawn!!!


I would absolutely love to see you go to a downhill park and try to keep up with the fast guys there that aren't "bicycling". It's a guarantee that you would not be able to complete the first run at anything approaching their pace and if you tried you'd blow up halfway through and have to take a rest break. Yes, even on a downhill.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

I just joined team dropper post this summer. I won't be going back to team stopper post any time soon.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

TiGeo said:


>


That's a highly disturbing video.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

mimi1885 said:


> Soon it can be voice activated I hope.


Dear God, I hope not.

Can you friggin imagine? People quipping "drop, drop" non stop.

Jesus Christ please no.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

jochribs said:


> Dear God, I hope not.
> 
> Can you friggin imagine? People quipping "drop, drop" non stop.
> 
> Jesus Christ please no.


Hey man what's wrong with "Alexa drop my post 2"" or "ok Google climb mode" better yet "hey Siri EJECT, EJECT!!"


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

mimi1885 said:


> Hey man what's wrong with "Alexa drop my post 2"" or "ok Google climb mode" better yet "hey Siri EJECT, EJECT!!"


I like the eject version.

You could ride up behinfd and yell, "EJECT", and clear the trail in front of you.

Decent idea for sure.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

TiGeo said:


>


Yeah, I probably looked like that second guy yesterday. Except I'm an old guy on a 29er with no pads or full face and have a dropper. Other than that&#8230;


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

DeadGrandpa said:


> Hey! Get off my lawn!!!


Narrowminded much?

That completely unfounded, holier than thou attitude definitely wouldn't fit in with any riders I've ever met, regardless of discipline.

Good luck climbing the bitterness out of your system.

:skep:


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> Narrowminded much?
> 
> That completely unfounded, holier than thou attitude definitely wouldn't fit in with any riders I've ever met, regardless of discipline.
> 
> ...


If you don't get the humor intended in my post, maybe you are the narrow minded one. But I'm not offended. I say take your humour where you find it.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

DeadGrandpa said:


> That's a highly satirical video.


FIFY

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

While I disagree with DeadGrandpa, I respect his right to tell you to get off his lawn. I have gravel and plants out front because I believe lawns are a conspiracy to keep men busy on Saturdays.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

DeadGrandpa said:


> If you don't get the humor intended in my post, maybe you are the narrow minded one. But I'm not offended. I say take your humour where you find it.


*still trying to find the nonexistent humor cues in your previous post*

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Travis Bickle said:


> Not sure what surfing and flats have to do with droppers. A riders appreciation of droppers is more location based than anything. Clipsless and flats are split here, and are not really an indicator of speed amongst the people I know. Only one friend who surfs, and he hasn't done it for a couple of years, since he almost knocked himself out (don't see the relevancy). The only locals that I know who don't use droppers are a couple of kids, and that is a cost issue, other than that they are ubiquitous. It's not an age thing either, the two oldest guys I know are in their 70's and ride with droppers. I'm sure lots of other places they are not so common. Thankfully, finding a reliable dropper was one of the biggest problems I've faced lately.
> 
> Threads like this are here for entertainment, and I enjoy reading all the BS.


The surfing comparison was simply my thoughts on how mountainbiking has somewhat split into the more "radical" side which is more gravity/tech orientated and the other side which is more "XC" focused w/less tech gravity. Much like surfing split when shortboards came onto the scene allowing more manavourabilty etc. over long boards (which consequently came back into vogue later on). These two camps went at each other much like you see here in these discussions related to flat pedals, low/low/slack, and droppers between the new-school gnar-boys and the old-school lycra rippers. It made sense to me at least. A rider's appreciation of a dropper should be more related to HOW they ride vs. WHERE they ride, but I certainly agree that if you live where the trails are more gravity-orientated or more gnarly, you will probably gain more from a dropper than someone living where it's flat and not-technical. I am using my dropper more each ride and after some time with it last night in the garage getting the cable routing sorted out (the internal routing was total **** from the shop that installed it - housing was mangled), it's super smooth now and that should help me use it even more.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)




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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)




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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

TiGeo said:


> The surfing comparison was simply my thoughts on how mountainbiking has somewhat split into the more "radical" side which is more gravity/tech orientated and the other side which is more "XC" focused w/less tech gravity.


I've found in my area, there's a LOT of cross-pollination across different disciplines. I know a ton of well rounded riders just at home doing long XC days in the saddle as they are ripping a skatepark or some serious lift runs. 
Why just ride the same all the time?


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## ajohansson (Oct 29, 2017)

slapheadmofo said:


> I've found in my area, there's a LOT of cross-pollination across different disciplines. I know a ton of well rounded riders just at home doing long XC days in the saddle as they are ripping a skatepark or some serious lift runs.
> Why just ride the same all the time?


Id say most people are like that. Whats funny is if you followed the top pro gravity guys look how they cross train in the off season. Lots of different biking ...maybe even long and shortboard surfing! Oh my...

I try not to take life seriously when its not required. Nobody is paying me to ride a bike, I pay lots of money to enjoy it...and the money I paid for my new Bike Yoke dropper was worth it. Your experience may be different and thats ok with me.

I ride park...
I ride trails...
I ride sidewalks
I ride whatever suits

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

I have a Crank Brothers Highline 160mm, had it about 4months now, aint no way lm removing that sucker from my bike, droppers a keeper


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## @[email protected] (Aug 25, 2017)

TheDwayyo said:


> View attachment 1137740
> 
> . *It is completely integral to my riding*.


^+1


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> The surfing comparison was simply my thoughts on how mountainbiking has somewhat split into the more "radical" side which is more gravity/tech orientated and the other side which is more "XC" focused w/less tech gravity. Much like surfing split when shortboards came onto the scene allowing more manavourabilty etc. over long boards (which consequently came back into vogue later on). These two camps went at each other much like you see here in these discussions related to flat pedals, low/low/slack, and droppers between the new-school gnar-boys and the old-school lycra rippers. It made sense to me at least. A rider's appreciation of a dropper should be more related to HOW they ride vs. WHERE they ride, but I certainly agree that if you live where the trails are more gravity-orientated or more gnarly, you will probably gain more from a dropper than someone living where it's flat and not-technical. I am using my dropper more each ride and after some time with it last night in the garage getting the cable routing sorted out (the internal routing was total **** from the shop that installed it - housing was mangled), it's super smooth now and that should help me use it even more.


I don't really see the split here at all. Locals who race often take part in the 12hr, XC, Enduro, and DH. People have varying degrees of skill and fitness which can dictate which trails they ride, but everyone is a mountain biker. Getting, and using a dropper is not even discussed here, they are universally embraced by all. I ride with visitors from all over, some of whom have solid posts, and they always see the value of a dropper a couple of minutes into the first trail. Lycra XC warriors have ran out and bought them after the first ride here. This is why I see it as regional.


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## RonSonic (Jan 8, 2005)

> Lycra XC warriors have ran out and bought them after the first ride here. This is why I see it as regional.


So much about this sport is regional. Tire and bike choice never mind gearing and yeah, droppers. I don't see them here much.

Like so many things, mountain biking has a blind men and the elephant problem. It's so much bigger, broader and different from one side to the next than most of us can experience or understand completely.

If we accept each other's experience and observations as valid we might just learn something. Or, we can have a monkey-island poo fight and end up on twitter.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

While we're on the subject of dropper posts, how the ^&*%$ do you work on your bike with one of these? I can't clamp my top tube due to the shock mount and I'm thinking it's not a good idea to clamp and support by the dropper. Do I have to swap in a rigid post so I can clamp to it? Maybe I need to get one of those little stands that goes thru the bottom bracket?


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

chazpat said:


> While we're on the subject of dropper posts, how the ^&*%$ do you work on your bike with one of these? I can't clamp my top tube due to the shock mount and I'm thinking it's not a good idea to clamp and support by the dropper. Do I have to swap in a rigid post so I can clamp to it? Maybe I need to get one of those little stands that goes thru the bottom bracket?


It's just fine. Clamp away.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

chazpat said:


> While we're on the subject of dropper posts, how the ^&*%$ do you work on your bike with one of these? I can't clamp my top tube due to the shock mount and I'm thinking it's not a good idea to clamp and support by the dropper. Do I have to swap in a rigid post so I can clamp to it? Maybe I need to get one of those little stands that goes thru the bottom bracket?


I just clamp away. People on the internet dont like this though


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

mik_git said:


> Yeah, I could never, ever ride that way.
> Different ways of dong things and riding I guess. As much as I think the dropper is an important tool, every bike I have has a lockout on it and i wouldn't...er prefer not to... ride without one, but a dropper I can live without...


My XC bike is a HT with a solid lockout and no dropper. I can live without the dropper on that bike. And sadly, I have done some freeriding on enduro trails with that bike when I shouldn't...

Which is how I ended up with a 160mm 29er.

It's smarter not to ride like me anyway. But while I recommend droppers to people, I don't push them to get one if they don't want to. I even have friends on 26" XC, trail, and enduro bikes.



Travis Bickle said:


> I don't really see the split here at all. Locals who race often take part in the 12hr, XC, Enduro, and DH. People have varying degrees of skill and fitness which can dictate which trails they ride, but everyone is a mountain biker. Getting, and using a dropper is not even discussed here, they are universally embraced by all. I ride with visitors from all over, some of whom have solid posts, and they always see the value of a dropper a couple of minutes into the first trail. Lycra XC warriors have ran out and bought them after the first ride here. This is why I see it as regional.


My main bike, the one I ride when I can, is my Enduro. Baggies, pads, full face, and the stupidity that follows. Yesterday I raced an 8 hour endurance in lycra on an XC HT with rigid post. Today, a CX race. I still call myself a triathlete.

People who actually race are far more rounded I think than non racers. People who just like to ride one certain thing tend not to race, and not see the benefit of trying something different. That's their choice, I don't care what they do.

I get annoyed when they start shouting at everyone that their methods of riding are inferior for no reason.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

There's plenty of things that just are unintuitive to the average person:
- bike handling skills, such as charging through the rough or bunnyhopping
- understanding geometry effect on handling
- setup such as tire pressure, suspension setup, handlebar and saddle alignment
- compatibility such as ordering components that work with your current setup
- maintenance work such as wheel truing

Some struggle to learn through reading. They fail to visualize through words, based on their limited knowledge and understanding. The act of passing on knowledge to others through communication is not a simple art.

There's all sorts of barriers to break through, such as false beliefs, arrogance, pride, fear, laziness, closed mindedness, reluctance to be sold on something, prejudice/discrimination/bias/hate/favor, etc. Some of these barriers are active defenses activated by the other person willingly, some of them subconscious; the easiest way to get knowledge past, is to get the person to remove the barriers themselves, essentially coming to learn, but the subconscious ones may still be up. What if the person doesn't know how remove the barriers though? The barriers only let certain info by, which in turn reinforces the barrier against what isn't allowed in.

People just end up getting frustrated not only at others and these vices, but also at themselves and their own futility. People wanting to help eventually realize that it's a waste of effort and leave others be. Don't get frustrated, just get more resourceful in trying to find a solution.






Don't forget about all the benefits of having a lower CoG in general, chiefly extra stability, when you drop your hips (in sections in which you don't need to pump or use your legs for susp).


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

JJ Welks said:


> My (0.02) 15' Anthem came with one, I switched it for a rigid carbon after 6 months. I mainly didn't like having to press down on the seat with my butt to get the dropper to drop, so if I ever do switch back it won't be of that sort. Maybe if I had a better model dropper to begin I would still be rockin one.


There is something too this. Considering the prices of dropper posts, would be nice if they were smart and lowered the saddle for you, before you realized that you needed it lowered. Also on the wish list, it should automatically go into suspension mode when needed to cushion the back side. We have smart phones, smart thermostats, why must we ride on dumb dropper posts?


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## Thrashbarg (Mar 28, 2017)

And automatic transmissions because if I can't anticipate needing to drop my seat I surely won't be anticipating any shifts.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Thrashbarg said:


> And automatic transmissions because if I can't anticipate needing to drop my seat I surely won't be anticipating any shifts.


Heard it doesn't work all that well:


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## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

OK, disclaimer first. I've not read each and every post on the thread but I've read some and see many opposing opinions (not surprised), and here is mine fwiw. 

I've been riding mt bikes since 1992. Fully rigid to hard tail to fs, and now I'm on my 2nd fs but first time on a dropper. I also suffer from lower back issues and have to moderate my ride to some extent. One thing I've found with having a dp is that when not climbing I make it a point to drop my post and of course put myself in a standing position as a result. I've found that I am in a much better position to take on unexpected difficult sections of trails (trails for which I've never been on before), but even on trails that I know well, my back feels a lot better and I can ride a lot longer without the back tightening up. 

If the dp was not on my new to me, bike that I bought second hand this year I'm not sure I would have gone out and got one as the trails I ride are not that steep. I'm very glad I have one as it has really helped me get out of the bad habit of sitting too much of the ride.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

Simply going by the title, about the benefits being over exaggerated, I definitely agree...There may be benefits but nothing to keep you from riding.


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## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

RonSonic said:


> So much about this sport is regional. Tire and bike choice never mind gearing and yeah, droppers. I don't see them here much.
> 
> Like so many things, mountain biking has a blind men and the elephant problem. It's so much bigger, broader and different from one side to the next than most of us can experience or understand completely.
> 
> If we accept each other's experience and observations as valid we might just learn something. Or, we can have a monkey-island poo fight and end up on twitter.





chazpat said:


> While we're on the subject of dropper posts, how the ^&*%$ do you work on your bike with one of these? I can't clamp my top tube due to the shock mount and I'm thinking it's not a good idea to clamp and support by the dropper. Do I have to swap in a rigid post so I can clamp to it? Maybe I need to get one of those little stands that goes thru the bottom bracket?





Silentfoe said:


> It's just fine. Clamp away.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


It's really no big deal. You just un clamp the seatpost and raise it up enough to use your bike stand to clamp on to the lower post on the dropper.

You shouldn't clamp on to the top tube on the dropper but lots of folks do (and shops). However, this can lead to expensive rebuilds and downtime on the dropper. It takes me less than a minute to raise the post to prevent possible damage. I've marked my post so that it is very easy to return it to my ride height.

But it's your bike so do with it what you will.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

chazpat said:


> While we're on the subject of dropper posts, how the ^&*%$ do you work on your bike with one of these?


I remove the post and put a standard post in. Externally routed post so takes seconds to do.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Jetta2010 said:


> It's really no big deal. You just un clamp the seatpost and raise it up enough to use your bike stand to clamp on to the lower post on the dropper.
> 
> You shouldn't clamp on to the top tube on the dropper but lots of folks do (and shops). However, this can lead to expensive rebuilds and downtime on the dropper. It takes me less than a minute to raise the post to prevent possible damage. I've marked my post so that it is very easy to return it to my ride height.
> 
> But it's your bike so do with it what you will.


That's a great idea, hope my cable is long enough to allow this (also an external).


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

my feeble 2cents

never had a dropper, now I do. did one ride trying to drop seat on occasion

on tight twisties a dropped seat does allow you to lean the bike harder
and faster and it does increase speed and control when cornering

I am a grasshopper when using a dropper so I have
a lot to learn to make my ride result in overall speed increase. right now trying to learn
when and how to use it. so far I am rocketing in corners and that part
is actually something to get used to, as well as timing when I need to raise it .

the same corner with a raised seat yes I can rail it, but wow dropped is -that much better-

I'll figure it out eventually.

bikeyoke revive 30.9 125mm


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jetta2010 said:


> It's really no big deal. You just un clamp the seatpost and raise it up enough to use your bike stand to clamp on to the lower post on the dropper.


Exactly, pretty simple really. I have a quick release collar that holds the dropper main post into the frame so it takes just seconds to do. A line scratched on the post to mark it and slide it back in its optimal position when done working on the bike.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> View attachment 1165749


Nah... if I ever need a thrill I just keep my dropper up where I used to drop it. Reminds me why I love it so...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

l'oiseau said:


> Nah... if I ever need a thrill I just keep my dropper up where I used to drop it. Reminds me why I love it so...


That's all great but is there a famous song about it?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

What specifically does clamping your dropper do wrong to it? Had one for a few weeks and have been clamping it.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

TiGeo said:


> What specifically does clamping your dropper do wrong to it? Had one for a few weeks and have been clamping it.


You could scratch the stanchion. I also worry about sideloading it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> You could scratch the stanchion. I also worry about sideloading it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I'm fairly certain it sees more side load when I'm sitting on it pedaling hard than it ever will in the stand.

A rag or paper towel will prevent the former.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> I'm fairly certain it sees more side load when I'm sitting on it pedaling hard than it ever will in the stand.
> 
> A rag or paper towel will prevent the former.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


No, it doesn't. When in the stand and rotated at a 60° angle it's experiencing force solely in a vector in a way it never sees when you are riding.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> No, it doesn't. When in the stand and rotated at a 60° angle it's experiencing force solely in a vector in a way it never sees when you are riding.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Seems like the obvious solution is to not rotate it 60°. Why would you do that in the first place?

Here's my bike with seatpost clamp angle adjustment completely loosened. I didn't bother measuring the angle. Looks to be between 15-20° off perpendicular to me.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

tuckerjt07 said:


> No, it doesn't. When in the stand and rotated at a 60° angle it's experiencing force solely in a vector in a way it never sees when you are riding.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


But the weight of the bike in the stand is like 12% of the weight of my ass on the saddle. If I used a work stand I wouldn't think twice about side load.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> Seems like the obvious solution is to not rotate it 60°. Why would you do that in the first place?
> 
> Here's my bike with seatpost clamp angle adjustment completely loosened. I didn't bother measuring the angle. Looks to be between 15-20° off perpendicular to me.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


First, because I am 6'3" and when adjusting brakes it allows me to comfortably work on it. Second, just because you do it and have not experienced issues you've related to it does not mean that even at those angles it is experiencing forces in a way it does not when you are pedaling.

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

sapva said:


> But the weight of the bike in the stand is like 12% of the weight of my ass on the saddle. If I used a work stand I wouldn't think twice about side load.


That's where the terms side load and force vectors come in...

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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

tuckerjt07 said:


> That's where the terms side load and force vectors come in...


A side load of 27lbs is trivial compared to my full body weight hitting the saddle at a 15-20% angle off a three foot drop. Seriously think that is a bit paranoid. It they were really that delicate you would have to buy a new one for every ride.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

I've recently realized the benefits of a dropper while going down some fast descents. I was trying to get lower on the bike and the seat was getting in my way. In conclusion, I think the people who don't "need" a dropper are slow pokes.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

sapva said:


> A side load of 27lbs is trivial compared to my full body weight hitting the saddle at a 15-20% angle off a three foot drop. Seriously think that is a bit paranoid. It they were really that delicate you would have to buy a new one for every ride.


Exactly.

At my 220lbs, riding up a trail with a horrible pedal stroke and seated, I'm putting more fore/aft force on the dropper than a toddler could while dangling from my bike which is hanging on a repair stand.

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

sapva said:


> A side load of 27lbs is trivial compared to my full body weight hitting the saddle at a 15-20% angle off a three foot drop. Seriously think that is a bit paranoid. It they were really that delicate you would have to buy a new one for every ride.


That's still not the same. In one you still have weight driving downwards. In another you are suspending the weight with negligible downward force. Perhaps it is a bit paranoid. However, any side load on a hydraulic piston is usually not a good thing. Part of Rockshox's revamp on the Reverb was to address side-load with seal and bushing design.

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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I thought a lot of dropper post manufacturers recommend that you do not pick the bike up by the post. Seems to me, the post is designed for downward forces being applied from the top (weight of the rider pushing down) and not for a force pulling down (the weight of the bike when hanging from the post) which would basically be trying to extend the post more. Though I guess a bike doesn't weight that much really.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

chazpat said:


> I thought a lot of dropper post manufacturers recommend that you do not pick the bike up by the post. Seems to me, the post is designed for downward forces being applied from the top (weight of the rider pushing down) and not for a force pulling down (the weight of the bike when hanging from the post) which would basically be trying to extend the post more. Though I guess a bike doesn't weight that much really.


They mean not to pick it up by a dropped post. You are not meant to extend it by force.

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## ajohansson (Oct 29, 2017)

Thats why I bought a bike yoke! Not an issue with pulling up on seat, clamping (outside of scratching just be smart) 


From the bike yoke Q&A

Can I lift my bike on the saddle, or will anything inside the post get damaged, when I pull on the saddle?
Other posts may get damaged. The REVIVE will be OK, when you lift the bike on the saddle, or when you pull on it. The worst thing, that can happen, ist, that you might need to do a reset, but most of the time, you won´t even have to do this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Schulze said:


> I've recently realized the benefits of a dropper while going down some fast descents. I was trying to get lower on the bike and the seat was getting in my way. In conclusion, I think the people who don't "need" a dropper are slow pokes.


 Fast descents? One would need something bigger than say 100' of vert. without giant rocks, rock gardens or boulders in the way? Hmm, got none of that.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Vital MTB Face Off: The Best Dropper Seatposts - Mountain Bikes Feature Stories - Vital MTB

I've got the Revive for the user serviceability, and it works amazingly. The Manic is cheap and has great reviews as well. They don't have to be expensive these days.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Travis Bickle said:


> Vital MTB Face Off: The Best Dropper Seatposts - Mountain Bikes Feature Stories - Vital MTB
> 
> I've got the Revive for the user serviceability, and it works amazingly. The Manic is cheap and has great reviews as well. They don't have to be expensive these days.


Good review. They rated the Wolf remote on the 9point8 below the Bike yoke one. Otherwise the 9point8 would have been 2nd. I think both deserve a 10 out of 10.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Schulze said:


> I've recently realized the benefits of a dropper while going down some fast descents. I was trying to get lower on the bike and the seat was getting in my way. In conclusion, I think the people who don't "need" a dropper are slow pokes.


AHAHAHAHAHAH

I mean, have you ever ridden with fast dudes without droppers? I see the other way, most folks I see with droppers in my areas are fairly novice and slow.


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## @[email protected] (Aug 25, 2017)

TiGeo said:


> AHAHAHAHAHAH
> 
> I mean, have you ever ridden with fast dudes without droppers? I see the other way, most folks I see with droppers in my areas are fairly novice and slow.


It's against the law to have a dropper where I live if you aren't hardcore.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

sapva said:


> Seriously think that is a bit paranoid. It they were really that delicate you would have to buy a new one for every ride.


Yeah, I recon the manufacturers tell us not to do it just to piss us off. What do they know, they only design and manufacture them.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

TiGeo said:


> AHAHAHAHAHAH
> 
> I mean, have you ever ridden with fast dudes without droppers? I see the other way, most folks I see with droppers in my areas are fairly novice and slow.


Hear, hear!!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

@[email protected] said:


> It's against the law to have a dropper where I live if you aren't trying to shop your way into looking hardcore.


fify


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## @[email protected] (Aug 25, 2017)

slapheadmofo said:


> fify


It was meant to make you lol.

Besides, everyone knows I'm hard core when they see my zip ties.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> fify


You know those emoticons where the smiley is head down and pounding fist, laughing? We need one of those on this site.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

jochribs said:


> You know those emoticons where the smiley is head down and pounding fist, laughing? We need one of those on this site.


I tried to get a emoticon movement change going, but it fell on deaf ears with the authorities.

http://forums.mtbr.com/off-camber-off-topic/dont-play-my-emotions%85poll-838931.html


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## Gingerdawg (Nov 14, 2007)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I tried to get a emoticon movement change going, but it fell on deaf ears with the authorities.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/off-camber-off-topic/dont-play-my-emotions%85poll-838931.html


Here ya go...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

^ Sad but true. Humans will never change.

Just look at the dropper movement. Some need them some don’t. Some crave them others don’t. 

Those that need them and use them I fear are far more than what has been displayed in this thread. That said, I’ve been running one since 2008. Before I had one did I think I “needed it”? Yes. Once I got one did I use it as much as I thought I would? No. Do I use it on occasion per ride? Yes. Could I do without one? Yes. Would I want to? No. I love my dropper and it’s nice to know it’s there when I need it. Do I rely on it? No. There are many occasions I should have used it but my speed and in the zone mode made it non important. If I’m pondering every tech session, then yes I use it. But sometimes I’m in such a zone I’m through a section I should have used it before it clicked to do so. 

A dropper: Great to have and once you’ve had one it’s hard to go back to not having one.

Some need it for the trails they ride.

Some use it by convenience.

Some don’t need one for the trails they ride.

Bottom Line____you_ be_the_judge. Don’t buy one because others say you have to have one. If you can try one then great, but by today’s dropper prices I’d be hard pressed to drop that amount of coin on something that’s not needed for the terrain normally ridden. If you find you are on trails that are some steep technical terrain on a normal basis, then yes get one.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> ^ Sad but true. Humans will never change.
> 
> Just look at the dropper movement. Some need them some don't. Some crave them others don't.
> 
> ...


Bingo

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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

Gingerdawg said:


> Here ya go...


Is it really that hard to type out complete words and sentences? Forget I said that, in another 1000 years humans will probably have 17 thumbs on each hand.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

sapva said:


> Is it really that hard to type out complete words and sentences? Forget I said that, in another 1000 years humans will probably have 17 thumbs on each hand.


That is what is known as a colloquialism...

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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

^^I was going to say the same thing, but then I think I understood that sapva was referring to the emoticons rather than Gingers "here ya go", of which I personally think was personable and apropos.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> A dropper: Great to have and once you've had one it's hard to go back to not having one.


Kinda like a chicken and mushroom pizza?


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Travis Bickle said:


> Been on a dropper since the original Gravity Dopper, and this is way down on the list of things I want, pretty much a non issue to me. It might be nice to have, but I wouldn't sacrifice reliability, smoothness, and user rebuildability. This feature will come out eventually, but is gonna add complexity, along with a possible source of problems.
> 
> I am riding with a 160mm Bikeyoke Revive, and it just may be the holy grail of droppers.
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bikeyoke-revive-dropper-post-review.html


Speaking of the GD, I still have the urge at times to tap the seat to get it to extend, like you had to do on the original GD (one of which I have and still use BTW).

About this thread in general...

Proper position on the bike commensurate with terrain is such an integral part of riding. Not doing so is a serious handicap. Like any sport, body position is key, to performing well. Look at the body position of any athlete while descending in DH or Enduro at speed.

We were dropping posts on DHs years ago manually, well before dropper posts, because proper body position on the bike is about the most important skill one can apply to navigate challenging terrain. (As an aside, teaching my kids to bike, and more than anything, its proper position that lets them rip - my son inherited my old GD).

I'd sooner ride a rigid SS with V brakes than go with out a dropper.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

I love the dropper on my new bike!! I got my first Mountain Bike in 1983 and have been riding for 34 years.
I personally never drop it on my new bike nor think I need to drop it during rides and think is was a waste of money..........But now when I let my short friends test ride my new bike I can lower my seat so the can touch the pedals!!


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

tom erb said:


> I love the dropper on my new bike!! I got my first Mountain Bike in 1983 and have been riding for 34 years.
> I personally never drop it on my new bike nor think I need to drop it during rides and think is was a waste of money..........But now when I let my short friends test ride my new bike I can lower my seat so the can touch the pedals!!


Old dog, new tricks. Keep working with it, you'll get it.

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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

So after watching vids of the benefits and techniques of droppers I decided to bite the bullet and tried out a KS Lev. As a mostly XC rider I was more interested in increasing speed, control, and grip in the turns, don't really do any big drops.
I'm gonna need tons more practice but I definitely could get my CoG lower in the turns, in fact it almost felt like a BMX bike at times. 
The hard part for me was thinking about all of the steps...OK, I wanna drop, here goes. 
Hit the lever, weight the saddle, go through the turn (Yep, feels weird), hit the lever, and unweight the saddle, definitely not seamless at all yet but I can see some promise.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I was one that was big into pissing ppl here off saying "you dont NEED a dropper, all beginners are far from needing one, lot more they need to worry about and upgrade before dropping coin on a dropper. No one NEEDS a dropper post and their way overrated"

Now that I tried and put one on my trail bike I understand the love for them. Still far from needed or really useful for starting out they are SO FLIPPING NICE TO HAVE! Can be so much faster in many aspects because of them. Mainly high speed corners and steep decents.

So Ill always tell beginners to not waste the money on them on an entry bike. When the bike becomes their limit, then a better bike with a dropper is in order.

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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

jeremy283 said:


> I also noticed my bunny hops at high speed and drops were much better executed. I think having the seat it normal height helps me aim the bike better in the air.


How high are these bunny hops you speak of?


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## d4nt3ch (Sep 17, 2015)

I think it depends on your riding style. If you do mostly xc, you def can go without a dropper, but if you ride trail/enduro and like to take risks and go aggressive on the dh, you def need a dropper. The weight and maintenance of a dropper can be a deterrent. Do your research and by all means DON'T get the rockshox reverb. It's a pos. Get a cable actuated dropper that uses c02 cartridges like the giant contact dropper and you'll be golden. 

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## @[email protected] (Aug 25, 2017)

upstateSC-rider said:


> So after watching vids of the benefits and techniques of droppers I decided to bite the bullet and tried out a KS Lev. As a mostly XC rider I was more interested in increasing speed, control, and grip in the turns, don't really do any big drops.
> I'm gonna need tons more practice but I definitely could get my CoG lower in the turns, in fact it almost felt like a BMX bike at times.
> The hard part for me was thinking about all of the steps...OK, I wanna drop, here goes.
> Hit the lever, weight the saddle, go through the turn (Yep, feels weird), hit the lever, and unweight the saddle, definitely not seamless at all yet but I can see some promise.


It becomes completely natural in no time at all.


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

d4nt3ch said:


> I think it depends on your riding style. If you do mostly xc, you def can go without a dropper, but if you ride trail/enduro and like to take risks and go aggressive on the dh, you def need a dropper.


I'm in-between xc and trail, have been thinking of adding a dropper as I'm quite aggressive on descents, what's your take on this?

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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

I know I'm late to the party but I find myself using my dropper as much as I use my shifter. I'm constantly adjusting my saddle height to suite the terrain. On long steep climbs I'll put it up all the way. On fast steep descents I'll drop it all the way down. On technical rocks I'll put it somewhere in the middle. On moderate climbs I'll bring it up but not all the way. On moderate downhills with some flats and logs I'll put it down but not all the way.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

d4nt3ch said:


> Get a cable actuated dropper that uses c02 cartridges like the giant contact dropper and you'll be golden.


I'm not familiar with that dropper. How often do you have to replace the CO2 cartridge?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

:lol::lol::lol:


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

I like my dropper, but the technology is dated. I’d like to see some advances – specifically a network-connected dropper that can be operated via a smartphone. I have this capability on the thermostat at my house and it’s been great. On vacation and realize you left your seat down? No problem, just raise it via your smartphone.

Furthermore, the network-connected dropper will allow geographical data-logging. With shared data from other users, you’ll have the option of automatic operation (no more tired thumbs), and / or warnings via smartphone. I'd definitely want a manual mode, but if the software detects a dangerous situation, it should override rider selections and drop the post.

Not a huge priority for me, but if they can figure a way to integrate C02 cartridges with this, all the better.

Ridiculous? Maybe. But how about we check back on this in 10 years and see where we are?


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

tuckerjt07 said:


> That is what is known as a colloquialism...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


the iphone SE (or any smartphone) s not made for Man-Hands but that's just my opinion.


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## d4nt3ch (Sep 17, 2015)

According to one youtube, about every 2 years and the price of the cartridge is about $60


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## d4nt3ch (Sep 17, 2015)

"I like my dropper, but the technology is dated. I'd like to see some advances - specifically a network-connected dropper that can be operated via a smartphone. I have this capability on the thermostat at my house and it's been great. On vacation and realize you left your seat down? No problem, just raise it via your smartphone."

Sounds lazy to me


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

JACKL said:


> I like my dropper, but the technology is dated. I'd like to see some advances - specifically a network-connected dropper that can be operated via a smartphone. I have this capability on the thermostat at my house and it's been great. On vacation and realize you left your seat down? No problem, just raise it via your smartphone.
> 
> Furthermore, the network-connected dropper will allow geographical data-logging. With shared data from other users, you'll have the option of automatic operation (no more tired thumbs), and / or warnings via smartphone. I'd definitely want a manual mode, but if the software detects a dangerous situation, it should override rider selections and drop the post.
> 
> ...


:skep: not sure of you're serious or not.


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## d4nt3ch (Sep 17, 2015)

Nat said:


> I'm not familiar with that dropper. How often do you have to replace the CO2 cartridge?


Giant contact droppers only come on giant bikes (to my knowledge).


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## d4nt3ch (Sep 17, 2015)

Shadow4eva said:


> I'm in-between xc and trail, have been thinking of adding a dropper as I'm quite aggressive on descents, what's your take on this?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dropper  It'll take a bit of muscle memory to activate the dropper switch constantly, but it's totally worth it, unless you like to go OTB on steep stuff ^.^


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

d4nt3ch said:


> Dropper  It'll take a bit of muscle memory to activate the dropper switch constantly, but it's totally worth it, unless you like to go OTB on steep stuff ^.^


Alright, I'll start saving up for one! 

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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I learned early on never to comment on politics, religion, or dropper posts on this forum.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

midwestmtb said:


> I learned early on never to comment on politics, religion, or dropper posts on this forum.


:lol::lol::lol:


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Auto-trail-sensing droppers. We have lost our minds. You could do this shifting as well...it just shifts based on the trail data.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Since this has gone full stupid, I take issue with the term "over exaggerated".


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

I found a new use for my Dropper post last week.

My wife was out of town on Business and I did not want to skip my Tuesday evening ride, and I was not going to get a Babysitter to watch my 19 month old son while I rode for a few hours.

So I moved the kid seat from my beach cruiser to my Intense Spider. Unlike the beach cruiser with it's forward extended stem and longer curved back handlebars, the back of the Kid seat was just a few inches from the front of my seat, so when stopped I would not be able to slide forward and stand over the bike like I normally would do, nor could I start from such a position. I *NEEDED* the dropper post to be fully lowered so I could stand over the bike at a stop. Leaning the bike to the side to reduce the seat height was not an option with my child in the seat.

Here is a picture of us stopped with the dropper fully down about 3 miles into our ride.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

^ Two happy guys out for a ride!

Don't let those opportunities go by, they really do grow up too fast.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

chazpat said:


> Don't let those opportunities go by, they really do grow up too fast.


Can't second this comment enough. Time goes so fast, so fast.

And I'm not able to give you rep Chaz, but you definitely deserve it.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

travis bickle said:


> since this has gone full stupid, i take issue with the term "over exaggerated".


lol!!


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## FerrouSS (Oct 24, 2007)

What is a dropper? Is it like and eye dropper? 

Googled it. Meh. I'm certain my bike doesn't need one. 

Thanks Obama.


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## redbarn (Sep 23, 2008)

:madman:


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## SCxXxMTB (Apr 20, 2017)

I dont have a dropper post and never have, but I'm ordering one this friday. I just started riding in April and have a beginner hardtail that I know I shouldnt spend too much money upgrading but HOLY **** I hate having to stop and drop my seat before a descent. Just imagining being able to hit a button and change my seat height makes my life a little better. I ride a lot of local trails with punchy climbs followed by short descents and I feel like being able to change on the fly will be ride-changing. I don't see why so many people seem reluctant to try a dropper.

I dont even have the post yet and I feel like its the best upgrade ever.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

If your riding an entry bike but have descents that need the seat lowered the bike is likely beyond its design purpose anyway. More to gain from good forks than a dropper quite honestly. I've found black diamond rated descents by mistake (new trails, lacking signage) on a hardtail, no dropper, cleared them just fine. Big wheels ftw there. Never found something that I could or couldn't ride because of a dropper. Forks on the other hand, good forks that have proper support when your going down and good braking technique do well. Dropper of course makes it easier but like I said, if your riding stuff that you gotta drop your saddle to go down a hill, it's beyond and entry bike (forks in particular)

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## RonSonic (Jan 8, 2005)

We sure got some kinky bastids around here.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

RAKC Ind said:


> If your riding an entry bike but have descents that need the seat lowered the bike is likely beyond its design purpose anyway.


No, not necessarily. Lowering the saddle even a cm. can give you better control even where the terrain isn't gnar-core.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

RAKC Ind said:


> If your riding an entry bike but have descents that need the seat lowered the bike is likely beyond its design purpose anyway. More to gain from good forks than a dropper quite honestly. I've found black diamond rated descents by mistake (new trails, lacking signage) on a hardtail, no dropper, cleared them just fine. Big wheels ftw there. Never found something that I could or couldn't ride because of a dropper. Forks on the other hand, good forks that have proper support when your going down and good braking technique do well. Dropper of course makes it easier but like I said, if your riding stuff that you gotta drop your saddle to go down a hill, it's beyond and entry bike (forks in particular)
> 
> Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


sometimes i read what people type on these forums and just sadly shake my head.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

RAKC Ind said:


> if your riding stuff that you gotta drop your saddle to go down a hill, it's beyond and entry bike (forks in particular)


I would say the rider is the problem, not the bike

No offence intended to the rider, but more skills are needed, not a better bike.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

shekky said:


> sometimes i read what people type on these forums and just sadly shake my head.


No where did I say droppers aren't beneficial when skills are at that level. But as clarified for me, skills are a major player here.

Ive ridden enough bikes with cheap forks, good forks not tuned for me and finally forks that are set up correctly. The difference is night and day, far more than a dropper has brought. Im riding a dropper currently on my trail bike and DAMN I GET IT NOW. But I can ride the exact same trails on my full rigid fat bike without a dropper almost as fast. No suspension forks and dragging the fat ass up climbs is what slows me down the most. I didnt get a dropper till 3 months ago. And it is good for 2 things, fast fast corners and techy stuff. Both of which the difference between wrong and right forks made far more difference.

I look at droppers the same as I go clipless. Nothing more than a "cheat" for not having learned proper skills yet, then the advantages actually come into play once you have.

Each has their opinions, mine comes from my experience. Every bike is a different animal. An entry bike is going to be far more of a hindrance (forks mainly, followed by brakes and then wheels) than any other part. But thats me.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

I personally can't take anyone who doesn't use a dropper and wear knee-pads serious anymore. It's like seeing someone riding on a Trek Y bike claiming that "It works just fine!". Guys, it's almost 2018...


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

RAKC Ind said:


> No where did I say droppers aren't beneficial when skills are at that level. But as clarified for me, skills are a major player here.
> 
> Ive ridden enough bikes with cheap forks, good forks not tuned for me and finally forks that are set up correctly. The difference is night and day, far more than a dropper has brought. Im riding a dropper currently on my trail bike and DAMN I GET IT NOW. But I can ride the exact same trails on my full rigid fat bike without a dropper almost as fast. No suspension forks and dragging the fat ass up climbs is what slows me down the most. I didnt get a dropper till 3 months ago. And it is good for 2 things, fast fast corners and techy stuff. Both of which the difference between wrong and right forks made far more difference.
> 
> ...


"if your riding an entry bike but have descents that need the seat lowered the bike is likely beyond its design purpose anyway." this is what has me shaking my head. it smacks of elitism, maybe unintentionally.

remember, entry level might also mean "can't afford $3,500 for what i REALLY want" for many riders.

"needs the seat lowered" is subjective. beneficial at skill level, yes.

there are wildly capable "entry level" bikes out there. yeah, the wheels, fork and shock aren't top-shelf but i'm sure they're capable enough if everything is set up correctly. i just purchased one of them even though i've been riding since the late eighties and have owned and ridden enough bikes i'm occasionally forgetting bikes i've owned. so my opinions come from experience as well.

i'm not even riding a dropper on my hawk hill, i'm not going to buy one until i'm physically able to ride again.

once again, many of us are working with the best equipment we can afford.

don't belittle us by saying those bikes aren't good enough for the job.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Was unintentional, completely.

Entry bikes bikes are plenty capable. Was trying to make the point that the where lowering the seat is "needed" would fall into being beyond bikes abilities. 

Which is why I tried to stress forks. So many want to "upgrade" forks to something thats not even an upgrade barely then add a dropper like everything will be better.

I definitely should have worded better, the intent was to stress the actual lack of need or usefulness of a dropper for a lot of riding. Money better spent elseware and efforts better spent on learning skills. Comes from the point of high level riders making many of us look bad while riding the cheapest bikes out there. They ride without droppers. Rarely if at all touch the seat height.

My mistake for making it look "elitest", definitely not my intention at all.

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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

the comment about "entry level bikes" has me steaming at the ears.

why the hell do manufacturers use the same damn frames or variations thereof at different price points anyway, some of which cover quite a range--with the only notable differences being forks and shocks and maybe different mixes of SRAM or shimano drivetrain components?

looking at the specialized web page, their 27.5 trail bike line hits price points between $1650 and $8200 in the very similar camber and stumpjumper models (since when did specialized stop published head and seat tube angles on their website?). are the guys who can only afford the lower priced models of these bikes, the two camber models which don't come with droppers and offer just slightly less travel than some stumpjumper models--supposed to not upgrade to dropper posts and avoid steep descents?

just wondering...


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

RAKC Ind said:


> Was unintentional, completely.
> 
> Entry bikes bikes are plenty capable. Was trying to make the point that the where lowering the seat is "needed" would fall into being beyond bikes abilities.
> 
> ...


well done.

thank you.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

"Comes from the point of high level riders making many of us look bad while riding the cheapest bikes out there. They ride without droppers. Rarely if at all touch the seat height."

i don't think i've ever seen a fully rigid single speed with a dropper.

not live and in person, anyway.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

shekky said:


> why the hell do manufacturers use the same damn frames or variations thereof at different price points anyway, some of which cover quite a range--with the only notable differences being forks and shocks and maybe different mixes of SRAM or shimano drivetrain components?


For the same reason companies like Toyota offer two versions of effectively the same vehicle, but change the symbol on one to an L, add some interior refinements, and double the price. People with money like to pay more for perceived superiority.

That being said, the component manufacturers are the worst offenders, as they charge a LOT more for their higher end components than for their entry level stuff. Often the entry level stuff is not that much worse. I have a Rockshocks Recon fork for instance that I think is pretty good, and my Pike is really not that much better. The Recon cost $200 brand new, whereas the Pike retails for like $600-800 right now. A closer one is the Yari versus Lyrik - very little practical difference between those forks, yet they charge hundreds more for the Lyrik.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

RAKC Ind said:


> I definitely should have worded better, the intent was to stress the actual lack of need or usefulness of a dropper for a lot of riding. Money better spent elseware and efforts better spent on learning skills. Comes from the point of high level riders making many of us look bad while riding the cheapest bikes out there. They ride without droppers. Rarely if at all touch the seat height.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Can I ask how tall you are? How long are your legs? How naturally gifted you are as an athlete? All of those will come into play on how much impact a dropper has on your riding. Also, what kind of terrain do you typically ride? What is the surface of the trail? How technical is it? How long are the climbs and how long are the descents? Again all of that will come into play.

Droppers may or may not be useful to you, but then again how typical are you?

As for skills. The highly skilled can ride A-line on a cyclocross bike. They can ride Graveyard on a klunker. I wouldn't recommend a beginner do either. Equipment can make up for skill and the people who need this the most are beginners. This isn't a video game where you have to earn the good equipment through performance. This is the real world where there isn't a 100 percent right way to do almost anything and you get the stuff that benefits you the most as soon as you can. Learn on the best equipment you can afford. Save the cheap stuff for when your skills are superb.

There are things I ride now, that I only learned to ride on a dropper. I learned how to ride then first with the seat down. Because it was both easier and safer. Now, I can ride them with the seat up and have when my dropper was out of commission, but it isn't fun and it's a bit scary and if I had to do that when I was learning I'm not sure I would have even tried. So I would be less skilled now Sure a quick release goes a long ways, but around here, where the trails go up and down and up and down it gets a bit tedious especially with the number of ledges we have in the middle of some short steep descents that occur during the climbs.

Droppers improve the riding ability of those that learn to use them and who will benefit from then. So does riding clipless. They aren't cheats. There is nothing to cheat. Just different ways to do things.

Should X get a dropper? It depends. It depends on all those things I mentioned at the top. For people around me, especially those with short legs that like to ride the advanced trails, I recommend them. If you're my long legged 6 foot pilot friend whose main trail goes 10 miles up then 6 miles down and is mostly smooth but with some awesome root sections and a few drops? I told him his bang for buck would be far less.

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Thustlewhumber said:


> I personally can't take anyone who doesn't use a dropper and wear knee-pads serious anymore. It's like seeing someone riding on a Trek Y bike claiming that "It works just fine!". Guys, it's almost 2018...


So if I'm twice as fast as you uphill and faster than you downhill, you're the one to be taken "seriously"?

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## SCxXxMTB (Apr 20, 2017)

RAKC Ind said:


> If your riding an entry bike but have descents that need the seat lowered the bike is likely beyond its design purpose anyway. More to gain from good forks than a dropper quite honestly. I've found black diamond rated descents by mistake (new trails, lacking signage) on a hardtail, no dropper, cleared them just fine. Big wheels ftw there. Never found something that I could or couldn't ride because of a dropper. Forks on the other hand, good forks that have proper support when your going down and good braking technique do well. Dropper of course makes it easier but like I said, if your riding stuff that you gotta drop your saddle to go down a hill, it's beyond and entry bike (forks in particular)
> 
> Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


Already have an upgraded air fork I got for a good price. This post doesnt make too much sense to me anyways... I take my "entry level" hardtail to Dupont and WNC all the time and ride those trails. They have descents that I feel like warrant lowering the seat for extra maneuverability... By your logic there would be no entry level bikes on those trails period, which is ridiculous.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

RAKC Ind said:


> I look at droppers the same as I go clipless. Nothing more than a "cheat" for not having learned proper skills yet, then the advantages actually come into play once you have.


No, you're off-base on that point too.

At least you're opinionated I guess.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Nat said:


> No, you're off-base on that point too.
> 
> At least you're opinionated I guess.


I agree. That was hilarious.

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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

i think RAKC is trying to say something along the "you should start on a hardtail" argument, that you should first learn to ride without a dropper and then advance to riding with one. I'm not sure if I agree with that or not, though I do plan to keep my hardtail dropperless; these guys posting about how they can't ride without a dropper now or won't ride without a dropper are scaring me.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Seems there is no ability for some to understand that a $500 entry bike has limits. Doesnt mean that cant be ridden outside of them. Nor did I EVER say that. Joys of getting words put in my mouth.

FYI my most expensive bike, $1500 brand new, Cannondale beast of the east. Forks were "entry" air forks, found retail (not oem) magnum lightly used for cheap on ebay. Brakes changed to SLX once I could afford it.

So before jumping to conclusions, take the time to read EVERYTHING, especially when someone takes the time to correct a misunderstanding.

A $500 bike is entry, taking risks riding advanced trails with it. 

All i ever said was there are more important things to worry about than a dropper.

But that seems way to much for overly touchy ppl to read and put into context.

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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

As for clipless/dropper comment of mine. Nothing of being opinionated. Much more fact based than your opinion on the matter. Mine is based on digging through all the research done on both subjects.

They are for improvements where those points are holding a solid rider back. Not a crutch for a new rider to try and use for "instant pro level skills"


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

RAKC Ind said:


> Actually right on base. So many jump on the band wagons for clipless and droppers but cant handle intermediate trails on flats and standard post. So they become a crutch. Well documented around here.
> 
> And it becomes a hindrance down the road because riders dont learn proper riding skills and cant function without said parts.
> 
> ...


Ok that's just silly. I won't comment on clipless but no skills coach is going to teach a beginner to go off a drop with their seat jacked up to teach them good habits. Good grief.

Merry ThanksgivinG!!!


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I didnt say that lmao.

Why are so many offended when people speak of worrying about better skills before blowing money on upgrades?

I prefer to help others avoid that route. I followed that mentality that is spread so readily here and was the biggest mistake I ever made when it has come to anything cycling related.

You can ride a small drop without dropping the seat, same with small kickers and such.

Do XC racers stop and lower their seat???

Not usually, never seen it once.

Ive been riding without touching my post for years. Now that I have the insurance so Im not financially screwed if I get hurt, I am going mkre advanced where something like a dropper is the difference between fun or singing soprano.

So many have managed it no problem as well.

When you go big then ya, you drop the post. But the point where its needed is beyond what the majority of riders actually ride.

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## SCxXxMTB (Apr 20, 2017)

RAKC Ind said:


> Ok so your going to hammer me for what ever rider here will say. A $500 bike isnt designed for those level of trails.
> 
> Did I say it couldnt be ridden there, NO I did not.
> 
> ...


No hammering involved here, brutha, and I'm not defensive. My Trek was $650, got a good deal on a Suntour raidon, and also upgraded the Tektros to a pair of SLX brakes I got off Pinkbike for $80 for the set because at 220 lbs I found the Tektros to be just downright insufficient. I'm going to have this bike for a while so I'm gonna make it as confidence inspiring as possible.

And as I said before, my rides feature a lot of punchy climbs and short steep descents. Some of the trails my bike is technically outclassed on but I'm running what I have. If I want to ride some of the "bowls" featured on some of my trail systems, or hit some of the fast, rough downhills inbetween climbs as trail systems like Dupont are sometimes keen on throwing at you the last thing I want to do is get off my bike, fiddle with the f*cking QR post, get back on, do the descent, and raise it back up. I HATE the QR with a passion, and I HATE having a seat bumping against my ass while I'm going so fast down a rough descent that my eyeballs are vibrating and my vision is blurring.

I dont think youre being especially elitist I just dont think your argument holds much water to be honest. Yes, a new rider should concentrate on his technique. But I dont think using modern, widely available technology that is just going to become more and more prevalent is a crutch.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

In your case your able to ride without it. So then it becomes beneficial to have.

Its a problem well seen here though. And many jump in before I do saying the same thing. Guys that ride trails my 4 yr old and ride on his strider jump into a dropper post and clipless thinking they can do great things and need it. Only to realize later they screwed themselves.

My original comment was never intended as directed towards you or anyone in particular. Just "generalized". Having ridden years without and now having one, they are AWESOME to have, but damn glad I didnt jump of that band wagon early on.

Reason why, I can still ride almost as fast without out it, just dont push into more advanced riding without it. I say almost because there are corners and sections like every trail that arent worth stopping to drop the seat so less speed/more care is taken to clear them. Dropper of course solves that problem. 

But "crutch" comes into play because if you read some of these threads, guys cannot function without a dropper post. That is what Im trying to help people avoid. 

Be a solid rider without the toys (which your doing), be all the better with them instead. Reason I torture myself on a full rigid 26 fat bike with 4.8/4.4 (was 4.7s f & r) riding all the same stuff minus catching real air. Keeps skills up and more in tune.

This coming from a clyde that was 360lbs 6-7 yrs ago starting out on a walmart bike (1 season then got my 29er that I had till last winter). Once I got off the "upgrade" bandwagon and put my efforts into skills, riding became cheaper and more fun.

So apologies if ppl think im messed up, off or whatever. Ive done the homework, Ive made the mistakes, wasted the money pointlessly. If I can save anyone else the grief and frustration, then its not for nothing.

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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

SCxXxMTB said:


> No hammering involved here, brutha, and I'm not defensive. My Trek was $650, got a good deal on a Suntour raidon, and also upgraded the Tektros to a pair of SLX brakes I got off Pinkbike for $80 for the set because at 220 lbs I found the Tektros to be just downright insufficient. I'm going to have this bike for a while so I'm gonna make it as confidence inspiring as possible.
> 
> And as I said before, my rides feature a lot of punchy climbs and short steep descents. Some of the trails my bike is technically outclassed on but I'm running what I have. If I want to ride some of the "bowls" featured on some of my trail systems, or hit some of the fast, rough downhills inbetween climbs as trail systems like Dupont are sometimes keen on throwing at you the last thing I want to do is get off my bike, fiddle with the f*cking QR post, get back on, do the descent, and raise it back up. I HATE the QR with a passion, and I HATE having a seat bumping against my ass while I'm going so fast down a rough descent that my eyeballs are vibrating and my vision is blurring.
> 
> I dont think youre being especially elitist I just dont think your argument holds much water to be honest. Yes, a new rider should concentrate on his technique. But I dont think using modern, widely available technology that is just going to become more and more prevalent is a crutch.


this: " Yes, a new rider should concentrate on his technique. But I dont think using modern, widely available technology that is just going to become more and more prevalent is a crutch."

when i started riding, suspension forks were rare and for the most part, pretty crappy by today's standards.

the only people who WANT to go rigid on a brand new bike nowadays are usually certifiable anti-social punishment freaks such as myself.

although the rigid karate monkey will probably see a lot less time on the trails once i'm cleared by medicos to be back on bikes again.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I resemble that "punish" remark 

I feel it improves skills though. Especially reaction time. Rigid isnt forgiving lol.

And ita officially Thanksgiving!

Happy Thanksgiving all!

My 3 "MTBR" things Im thankful for:

Plus bikes

Fat Bikes

Dropper posts (well my lower regions are thankful for these when I screw up a drop)

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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

you see everyone, many of my descents are long, screaming, screaming fast fire road descents i really don't need a dualie for. 

it's my thought with a dropper moving the saddle out of the way, cornering will be a little more efficient if not much better.

when i grow my balls back, the steep rocky stuff i've always tiptoed through might be 
slightly less harrowing, too.

whether the benefits are over-exaggerated or not, i'm still going to try one on my bike asap.


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## SCxXxMTB (Apr 20, 2017)

RAKC Ind said:


> In your case your able to ride without it. So then it becomes beneficial to have.
> 
> Its a problem well seen here though. And many jump in before I do saying the same thing. Guys that ride trails my 4 yr old and ride on his strider jump into a dropper post and clipless thinking they can do great things and need it. Only to realize later they screwed themselves.
> 
> ...


I can definitely get behind that. I rode flats, bought clipless pedals/shoes, liked a lot of the benefits but then I took them off to learn proper bunnyhop/manual form without cheating using the clips even though I'd honestly rather be on the clipless pedals. I just want to be able to hop on any bike, no matter what the equipment, and be able to perform similarly.

Btw I'm sort of a glutton for punishment myself but the thought of riding a rigid on any sort of proper mountain bike makes me cringe!

Happy thanksgiving!


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Im in St Louis right now spending the holiday with family. Trails are much more punishing than back home (due north 300 miles) but the big ass tires take the shock out. Instead it gets a fair bit bouncy.

No way I could do it on a skinny tired bike. Back home for the easy trails, no problem, almost use my road bike as long as I have a mouth guard.

Here though picking the wrong line in the rocks gets sketchy, its a long, steepish tumble down the side of hills till I hit a rock or tree if I get bounced off the trail even a little bit.

A lot of a laughs today cause of hitting crap I couldnt see under the leaves. Couple close calls.

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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

RAKC Ind said:


> Im in St Louis right now spending the holiday with family. Trails are much more punishing than back home (due north 300 miles) but the big ass tires take the shock out. Instead it gets a fair bit bouncy.
> 
> No way I could do it on a skinny tired bike. Back home for the easy trails, no problem, almost use my road bike as long as I have a mouth guard.
> 
> ...


interesting you use a mouth guard. i've never thought of it or felt the need but it makes sense.

broken teeth are painful and expensive although i've never broken teeth cycling.

i hope it's one like the pro football players use with the animal fangs.

extra points for glow in the dark!

on hitting trees--you do NOT want to hit a tree hard while you're falling. i speak from _very_ recent experience...


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

The mouth guard was a joke. But I could see it being used riding full rigid.

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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Travis Bickle said:


> Since this has gone full stupid, I take issue with the term "over exaggerated".


i was waiting for this issue to be raised. The Mods should do something about the title.

Warmest regards,

Irregardless

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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

RAKC Ind said:


> Do XC racers stop and lower their seat???


Some do (Absolon for one) but most don't. They are skilled riders though, I was referring to beginners. If I were teaching a beginning skills class I'd lower everyones seat to practice drops, manuals, etc. so they could learn them faster and more safely, once they were proficient then they could try with normal saddle height, not the other way around.

Droppers are a crutch in the same way round wheels and brakes are.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I just don't want to get to the point where someone invites me to go ride and I have to say "I can't, my dropper is broken".

So I rode for the first time with my dropper a couple of weeks ago on a flow trail I was thinking would be perfect for the dropper. Dropped it way down and went in and… was not flowing well at all, just kind of rolling along. I realized that this particular trail still needed some aggressive pedaling leading into the jumps. So I just raised my saddle way up for the rest of the trail and decided to try again later. I'll have to experiment on this trail with dropping it less and standing more.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

If you look you will see top level xc racers starting to run droppers. But not many of them are using them. I guess a little sponsor pay is worth the weight.
If you hangout at a LBS it will surprise you how many 5" duallys with droppers and clipless are getting sold to middle age people that are just getting into mtb. Don't look down on them, they are paying the rent at our LBS.
I had droppers on all of my bikes. They are slick but not a game changer like some say. On my Enduro bike it makes it easier to raise and lower and gets to the proper climbing height every time. No more good enough moments.
I recently took the dropper off of my XC race bike. I never rarely used it and when I did it felt weird. On a true XC 21lb xc bike you hit max speed long before you need a dropper. And you spend so much time with the seat up it is second nature for it to be there.
I think everyone should try one, there will only be a rare few that won't want to keep it.


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## @[email protected] (Aug 25, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> Some do (Absolon for one) but most don't. They are skilled riders though, I was referring to beginners. If I were teaching a beginning skills class I'd lower everyones seat to practice drops, manuals, etc. so they could learn them faster and more safely, once they were proficient then they could try with normal saddle height, not the other way around.
> 
> *Droppers are a crutch in the same way round wheels and brakes are*.


^this


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

chazpat said:


> I just don't want to get to the point where someone invites me to go ride and I have to say "I can't, my dropper is broken".


If/when my dropper needs repairs, I will just put my normal seat tube back in until it is fixed. Just means I will have to stop and lower my seat at the end of climbs and deal with not being able to adjust it up and down throughout the long descents I ride that have small flat or climb sections that require pedaling. Check out this segment from my last ride:









I marked the top and the bottom, then the three spots on the ride when I need to actually put in some pedal power. If my seat is lowered for the entire section, then I lose power on the brief climbs, if I keep my seat up in "climbing" position I lose time and stability on the steeper sections. This trail has sections like this:









Before I had a dropper I would lower my seat partway, and I had a number of OTB's over the years trying to clear some of the bigger rocks and sketchier spots.

Now with the dropper I can put it down to the frame for this stuff and clear with ease, and pop it back up quickly when the small climbs or flats come up to keep overall speed.

I am sure not all parts of this country have the amount of elevation gain and loss as the SoCal rides do. But for the riding me and my friends do a dropper is a very useful tool and I would never go back to full time riding without one. I don't feel it is a Crutch at all.


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## drich (Oct 9, 2015)

> I am sure not all parts of this country have the amount of elevation gain and loss as the SoCal rides do. But for the riding me and my friends do a dropper is a very useful tool and I would never go back to full time riding without one. I don't feel it is a Crutch at all.


Agreed--riding in So. Ca has a ton of ups and downs, as well as short punchy climbs and quick drops. I rode for years with no dropper, but I just enjoy the ride more with a dropper post and it becomes natural after a few rides. I especially like the dropper when it comes to steep downhill switchbacks--nice to get the seat completely out of the way with one press of the button.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Thustlewhumber said:


> I personally can't take anyone who doesn't use a dropper and wear knee-pads serious anymore. It's like seeing someone riding on a Trek Y bike claiming that "It works just fine!". Guys, it's almost 2018...


I've got to jump in on this one. Are you flipping serious??

Gonna hurt that ego when a non droppered, no padded guy on a hardtail lays the coals to you.

I'll nominate myself to do it.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

jochribs said:


> I've got to jump in on this one. Are you flipping serious??
> 
> Gonna hurt that ego when a non droppered, no padded guy on a hardtail lays the coals to you.
> 
> I'll nominate myself to do it.


Well, given that were acting like kids playing on our bikes in the woods, I don't take anyone mountain biking seriously, even if they're pro caliber. It's not like it makes one whiff of difference to the world, which is why I love it.

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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

IPunchCholla said:


> Well, given that were acting like kids playing on our bikes in the woods, I don't take anyone mountain biking seriously, even if they're pro caliber. It's not like it makes one whiff of difference to the world, which is why I love it.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Exactly. It shouldn't make a whiff of difference. But to many...that most likely aren't NEARLY as good as they would like to profess, it apparently does.

Rider, not the bike. Period.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

jochribs said:


> Exactly. It shouldn't make a whiff of difference. But to many...that most likely aren't NEARLY as good as they would like to profess, it apparently does.
> 
> Rider, not the bike. Period.


Absolutely. Don't get me wrong, I love watching people kill it. As a meh rider myself I love it when I kill it, but this is kids playing kids games (I say that as a 45 year old). The differences we're talking about is small. I love droppers but, it doesn't make that huge a difference. I've seen guys on vintage retro bikes clean stuff I'm scared to try and people in full armor on Enduro bikes accelerate away from me on climbs. Both are totally awesome to witness. Totally amazing how people find their own awesome way to do this thing.

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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

jochribs said:


> I've got to jump in on this one. Are you flipping serious??
> 
> Gonna hurt that ego when a non droppered, no padded guy on a hardtail lays the coals to you.
> 
> I'll nominate myself to do it.


ummm l pretty sure the post you refer to was made in jest


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## burtjason (Oct 31, 2015)

I have 3 bikes I like ride. I ride them all equally. Then a couple of months ago, I made the mistake of buying a dropper for one of the them. Now.....it's the only bike I want to ride. So much more fun. So now, I need either to sell the other 2........or get 2 more droppers. I'm so confused. lol


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

There is nothing wrong with droppers, just like there is nothing wrong with wide bars, 150mm of suspension, etc as they can all improve your ability to ride gnar. I think what gets people irritated is that sometimes, there is so much focus on equipment and how "you can't even ride anymore without (insert favorite pet equipment)" that it does sound like a crutch. 

I remember a few months ago, some poor beginner was getting thrown over the bars on his X-caliber and came in asking for advice about how to avoid that. An overwhelming number of answers were along the lines of buying an expensive long, low, and slack bike.....with a dropper of course. The dude was riding a $900 bike and got thrown on things that should never require a dropper for people with above total newb skills. I think one or two mentioned skills, but the rest was about equipment. It's getting out of hand.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

midwestmtb said:


> There is nothing wrong with droppers, just like there is nothing wrong with wide bars, 150mm of suspension, etc as they can all improve your ability to ride gnar. I think what gets people irritated is that sometimes, there is so much focus on equipment and how "you can't even ride anymore without (insert favorite pet equipment)" that it does sound like a crutch.
> 
> I remember a few months ago, some poor beginner was getting thrown over the bars on his X-caliber and came in asking for advice about how to avoid that. An overwhelming number of answers were along the lines of buying an expensive long, low, and slack bike.....with a dropper of course. The dude was riding a $900 bike and got thrown on things that should never require a dropper for people with above total newb skills. I think one or two mentioned skills, but the rest was about equipment. It's getting out of hand.


100%
Acquire the skills by getting time on the bike rather than buying equipment for lack thereof.


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## @[email protected] (Aug 25, 2017)

jochribs said:


> I've got to jump in on this one. Are you flipping serious??
> 
> Gonna hurt that ego when a non droppered, no padded guy on a hardtail lays the coals to you.
> 
> I'll nominate myself to do it.


It's gonna hurt that knee when a no pad wearing guy hits the ground hard at 20+mph. For a few weeks.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

for the record, most of my trips over the bars i can remember were not on descents. i can remember one from a root strike and another from slamming the front brake when jammed by a car in city traffic. if i can't ride something, i'm gonna swallow my pride, get off and hoof it. 

there is no shame in walking while past and present experiences are teaching me the importance of avoiding emergency rooms, physical therapists and prolonged disruptions to my income. 

my take on things is that if you're going over the bars, up your skills so that you won't go over the bars--dropper post or no dropper post. do that or as i typed earlier, walk the sections you can't ride until you can. 

there's a level of skill on our bikes all of us will never achieve. the scary edge will always be there. 

results will vary. 

thank you, captain obvious...

a good thing for riders who have purchased bikes with OEM droppers to do would be purchasing a standard seatpost and collar/QR. then, when the dropper on your bike is out of commission, there's no excuse.

same goes for those who retrofit droppers. keep your old post and with all due respect, don't make excuses.


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## Thrashbarg (Mar 28, 2017)

jochribs said:


> I've got to jump in on this one. Are you flipping serious??
> 
> Gonna hurt that ego when a non droppered, no padded guy on a hardtail lays the coals to you.
> 
> I'll nominate myself to do it.


Do it without a helmet too. Show those pu**ies what it means to lay some coals.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

@[email protected] said:


> It's gonna hurt that knee when a no pad wearing guy hits the ground hard at 20+mph. For a few weeks.


Yeah, I'll make sure I post back when I hit my knees any worse than I already have or scrape my non gloved hands or find some other accoutrement in order to go do what I've been doing at an above average level for 23 years.

You need it in order to feel the part. I and everyone else must too.

It's getting deep in here.

And aren't you the guy who was also talking out of his depth about brakes and disc rub?

It's all coming even more clear. Stop typing and ride your bike on some non ADA trails for a few years and then get back to me. By then I'll bet you won't want to post as by then you'll have the hindsight knowledge that you really don't know your ass from a hole in the ground right now. Some humility and experience can help if you let it.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Thrashbarg said:


> Do it without a helmet too. Show those pu**ies what it means to lay some coals.


Game on.

And I never called anyone a *****. But if you're throwing that out there.


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> 100%
> Acquire the skills by getting time on the bike rather than buying equipment for lack thereof.


There's an opposite way to look at this... My dirt jumper has no dropper and I don't feel the need to add a dropper. But then the seat is clamped permanently lower that it possibly could be on a full sized mtb with any seat post accessory. So I guess by your logic I have acquired the skills. But it would be nice if I could easily raise the seat for those times when I just need to pedal efficiently to get somewhere on it.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Long travel full suspension bikes without a dropper seem like they might be missing out on some potential, but the carte-blanche “why would you ride a bike without a dropper” is equally silly to me. I think they are less important on hardtails and XC Bikes. 
I really thought I *needed* a dropper until I spent some time on a bike without one. There’s a few sections of a few trails that I think if I had the lever on my bar, I’d push it, but I honestly don't think it's made me any slower, and it’s certainly never forced me to walk.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

ARandomBiker said:


> Long travel full suspension bikes without a dropper seem like they might be missing out on some potential, but the carte-blanche "why would you ride a bike without a dropper" is equally silly to me. I think they are less important on hardtails and XC Bikes.
> I really thought I *needed* a dropper until I spent some time on a bike without one. There's a few sections of a few trails that I think if I had the lever on my bar, I'd push it, but I honestly don't think it's made me any slower, and it's certainly never forced me to walk.


Actually bad form there and a lot of it is because you can't get low enough.

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## Thrashbarg (Mar 28, 2017)

jochribs said:


> Game on.
> 
> And I never called anyone a *****. But if you're throwing that out there.


I never said you said that. I said that. But I listen to Ted Nugent so everyone seems like a p***y to me. I peel out in my pickup too. But I'm not the kind of guy that blasts a subwoofer. I rock the Crutchfield 6x9's.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Silentfoe said:


> Actually bad form there and a lot of it is because you can't get low enough.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Ok professor. Show me better.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

ARandomBiker said:


> Ok professor. Show me better.


Don't get butt hurt. Your form is bad. Take a course or even a single day class.

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

ARandomBiker said:


> Ok professor. Show me better.


You are not in an athletic position where you can quickly and easily introduce power or make dynamic balance corrections.

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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

tuckerjt07 said:


> You are not in an athletic position where you can quickly and easily introduce power or make dynamic balance corrections.


I disagree with that statement, having been the guy actually on the bike. I had no problem making the sharp left hand redirection to follow the trail that goes around the bush in the background. There's a big cliff not far out of frame to the right side, so a runout isn't an option.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

ARandomBiker said:


> I disagree with that statement, having been the guy actually on the bike. I had no problem making the sharp left hand redirection to follow the trail that goes around the bush in the background. There's a big cliff not far out of frame to the right side, so a runout isn't an option.


You can disagree all you like. Regardless of if you made the turn or not that is not a ready athletic position. Your limbs are over extended.

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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

tuckerjt07 said:


> You can disagree all you like. Regardless of if you made the turn or not that is not a ready athletic position. Your limbs are over extended.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


This

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## Thrashbarg (Mar 28, 2017)

It's a millisecond in time. Maybe a split second before the pic was taken he was in a more athletic position and is in the process of extending to absorb?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

It’s always the nitpick of ‘im Cooler than you” when you’re not comfortable with someone not buying Your brand of koolaid and being just fine with having a split second of less than optimal body position. 

You should maybe re-read my post. If those types of moves are a many times per ride thing, and you care about Strava, then you’re not doing it on a rigid singlespeed. 
My picture and comments were made solely to illustrate that stuff like that and more can be ridden without *needing* a dropper. I’ve ridden that same bike, set up the same way on the iconic Sedona trails and survived. 
Interpret that picture all you like, I can tell you even if I had a dropper post mounted and slammed it wouldn’t change that much about how that roller is done.


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## Thrashbarg (Mar 28, 2017)

A dropper isn't needed. It's a great convenience though. I don't need a microwave oven. But 5 days a week I'm running late for work and I microwave my wife's leftover coffee.


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## smithcreek (Nov 27, 2012)

IPunchCholla said:


> Should X get a dropper? It depends. It depends on all those things I mentioned at the top. For people around me, especially those with short legs that like to ride the advanced trails, I recommend them. If you're my long legged 6 foot pilot friend whose main trail goes 10 miles up then 6 miles down and is mostly smooth but with some awesome root sections and a few drops? I told him his bang for buck would be far less.


I'm a technical cross country rider. As a long legged guy this is the only part of your post I don't 100% agree with. I'm 6'1" with 35" inseam, so long legs, shorter torso. I've always felt like I'm riding on stilts. Everyone that sits on my bike that has more normal proportions comments on how high off the ground they fell. Cornering, no matter how hard I tried to use "correct" technique always felt awkward, unsure, and very difficult to find and keep a good balance point forward and back on the bike. First time I dropped my post a couple inches around a fast corner I understood how all my shorter leg friends felt, like a friggin race car hugging the ground. It was awesome! Same results on all the rocky rooty downhills. I stopped feeling like I could not get low enough that was not going to get bucked over the bars.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Thrashbarg said:


> A dropper isn't needed. It's a great convenience though. I don't need a microwave oven. But 5 days a week I'm running late for work and I microwave my wife's leftover coffee.


"I microwave my wife's leftover coffee."

that's just nasty, IMHO. microwaves makes changes to coffee which just aren't good.

that said, you are spot on about need.

"want" and "need" can be two distinctly different things...


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Thrashbarg said:


> It's a millisecond in time. Maybe a split second before the pic was taken he was in a more athletic position and is in the process of extending to absorb?


Then it's not allowing him to that correctly. No matter how you spin it that's not optimal, or even correct, body position.

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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Gene Hamilton's BetterRide social media posted quite a few photos of steep descents recently. One of the key points was a low body position with bent arms, versus the more common "hanging as far off the back of the bike as possible" technique.

Regardless of the above, focusing on steep descents when discussing the advantages of a dropper post overlooks a lot. Nobody ever really had any trouble getting behind a saddle. I know I didn't. The advantages really come to the fore when you learn to corner properly and gain the room to move the bike side-to-side along the lean axis. AND, with the evolution of mountain bike geometry, this is even more so. With a long front center, shorter rear center, and steep seat tube angle, the saddle is right where you want your hips. This is great for climbing, but not ideal for cornering. And even flat trails have corners.

I'd imagine that many of the riders who don't feel the need for a dropper post are riding bikes with more traditional geometry, narrower handlebars, and like to feel the saddle with their thighs when descending. That was pretty standard for many years, and if it works for someone, great. I know people who still telemark in leather boots. But equipment and techniques evolve, and separation between bike and rider is a major component of modern technique.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

smithcreek said:


> I'm a technical cross country rider. As a long legged guy this is the only part of your post I don't 100% agree with. I'm 6'1" with 35" inseam, so long legs, shorter torso. I've always felt like I'm riding on stilts. Everyone that sits on my bike that has more normal proportions comments on how high off the ground they fell. Cornering, no matter how hard I tried to use "correct" technique always felt awkward, unsure, and very difficult to find and keep a good balance point forward and back on the bike. First time I dropped my post a couple inches around a fast corner I understood how all my shorter leg friends felt, like a friggin race car hugging the ground. It was awesome! Same results on all the rocky rooty downhills. I stopped feeling like I could not get low enough that was not going to get bucked over the bars.


A lowered post has huge benefits. It's just that for him in his terrain, it really only need to be done one it twice on a sixteen mile loop. The descents are long and the few climbs on them are short enough to chug up. I've ridden droppers for years, but would have a hard time justifying then there. Up for the climb. Lower at the top. And off you go.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

smithcreek said:


> I'm a technical cross country rider. As a long legged guy this is the only part of your post I don't 100% agree with. I'm 6'1" with 35" inseam, so long legs, shorter torso. I've always felt like I'm riding on stilts. Everyone that sits on my bike that has more normal proportions comments on how high off the ground they fell. Cornering, no matter how hard I tried to use "correct" technique always felt awkward, unsure, and very difficult to find and keep a good balance point forward and back on the bike. First time I dropped my post a couple inches around a fast corner I understood how all my shorter leg friends felt, like a friggin race car hugging the ground. It was awesome! Same results on all the rocky rooty downhills. I stopped feeling like I could not get low enough that was not going to get bucked over the bars.


Very much agree at a hair under 6' with a 34.25" inseam.

Long levers are great for power, not so great for a lower COG.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

shekky said:


> "I microwave my wife's leftover coffee."
> 
> that's just nasty, IMHO. microwaves makes changes to coffee which just aren't good.
> 
> ...


Well, it's certainly better than no coffee.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Travis Bickle said:


> Well, it's certainly better than no coffee.


to each their own.

i believe in being fair...


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Even though I DHed for a long time and still ride pump/park on a BMX, and am very familiar what a dropped seat does, it somehow just doesn't translate well to trail riding for me.

BITD we used to ride a lot of techy stuff (seats up, clipless pedals) and I guess I just don't often tend to run into a lot of stuff these days that makes me feel I need to mess with another lever.


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

Whoa, check out that rear caliper. Squeeze that bad boy too hard and I guess you would slice right though the rim


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Of the four "bandaids"; clipless pedals, front suspension, rear suspension, and dropper post, I would say a dropper post makes the biggest difference to beginner/intermediate rider. 

An expert rider is able to ride the vast majority of terrain quickly and smoothly with their seat up, it is on only the most aggressive terrain that lowering their seat makes a significant difference. Of course nowadays most expert riders use a dropper and their ability to ride with a high seat is not what it once was.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

sapva said:


> Whoa, check out that rear caliper. Squeeze that bad boy too hard and I guess you would slice right though the rim


That was a 'brake booster' arch; kept your seatstays from flexing outwards under hard braking. Light and skinny steel like on that bike would get pushed around pretty good.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Then it's not allowing him to that correctly. No matter how you spin it that's not optimal, or even correct, body position.


How is "correct" technique and "correct" body position defined or determined? Is a technique or body position that is sub-optimal really incorrect if the rider is successful in negotiating the obstacle or section of trail? Stating that something is incorrect almost makes it sound like there are some rules somewhere about how one should ride a bike. Classes may teach riders techniques to improve their riding and there may be some common "best practices", but to say that any other way to accomplish the same task is incorrect seems a bit presumptuous. As bikes evolve, riding techniques may evolve with them, but that doesn't mean that other techniques are no longer valid.

The diversity of terrain, trail conditions, rider abilities, situations, body shapes, and equipment would lead me to believe that any blanket statement about the benefits or detriments of any piece of equipment or riding technique would be invalid.

While I have no doubt that installation of a dropper on my bikes could be of some benefit to me, the advantages for my type of riding, terrain, and riding goals would not be significant enough to justify the expense, the additional maintenance, and the possibility of down time. I build all of my bikes for minimal maintenance and minimal down time, but the typical 100 hour service interval would mean taking the time to rebuild the seat post at least 4 times a year or taking it to a shop and paying for 4 rebuilds a year on top of the initial acquisition cost. Dropping the saddle would provide negligible benefit on the rare occasion when I am riding against competition. I find that gaining minutes on climbs is more important for me than gaining seconds on descents. I haven't ruled out the possibility of running a dropper, but several factors will have to change to make it worthwhile to me.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

sgltrak said:


> How is "correct" technique and "correct" body position defined or determined?


By whatever I do in my rad career as a scion of the mountain biking world.

Sure, you can ride anything with a rigid post. The thing I like about the dropper though is the ability to get low without having to shift your weight back and get behind your seat. No matter how good you are, you can't squat down through a rigid dropper post, you have to move behind it. With modern geometry the need to get back behind the seat is much less and can hurt your control.

With less slack geometry though I find I really have to get back behind the seat more and I feel the dropper is less of an advantage.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I learned not to hang way off the back of the bike some time back in the 90's.

There's nothing at all wrong with dropper posts, or with anyone that prefers to use one. They're great for a lot of people for a lot of reasons, but the dogmatic gear-weenie position that they're a necessity for every person riding anything other than a sidewalk is a joke. Almost as funny as the folks that sound like wannabe trailside Dancing With the Stars judges or something.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> There's nothing at all wrong with dropper posts, or with anyone that prefers to use one. They're great for a lot of people for a lot of reasons, but the dogmatic gear-weenie position that they're a necessity for every person riding anything other than a sidewalk is a joke. Almost as funny as the folks that sound like wannabe trailside Dancing With the Stars judges or something.


I haven't seen any posts from the pro-dropper crowd like that but maybe I missed them. Pretty much everyone advocating them reiterates basically the same thing, that yes, you can do just about anything on a mtb without a dropper but having your seat lower makes certain things much easier and allows for more a optimal body position.

At least that's the way I read them and I agree, I doubt anyone would argue that raising the seat on a bmx bike to road bike height would be a wise thing to do. Yes, bmx and mtb are much different but depending on ones riding style there can be crossover areas.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> I haven't seen any posts from the pro-dropper crowd like that but maybe I missed them.


It's a pretty consistent refrain along the lines of 'a normal seatpost is fine as long as your riding is flat and non-technical, otherwise you need a dropper post'.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> It's a pretty consistent refrain along the lines of 'a normal seatpost is fine as long as your riding is flat and non-technical, otherwise you need a dropper post'.


Maybe a select few people use the word "need" (I don't recall any) but the vast majority say something along the lines of "it's better", or that it's "nice to have". No offense, you've posted some impressive photos and I'm sure you're a very good rider but you do seem a little defensive about high posting it  It's obvious that you don't "need" it, neither do I. Like suspension and good brakes they're not exactly necessary but they can be nice to have.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

One thing I haven't done since getting a dropper is snag the crotch of my shorts getting back on the saddle after a technical maneuver. That didn't happen a lot with a rigid post but it usually waited until my friends were there to witness the blunder.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> No offense, you've posted some impressive photos and I'm sure you're a very good rider but you do seem a little defensive about high posting it


My natural reaction to 'I'm a better rider on better trails cuz look what I bought'. 
Gear weenies are funny.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> My natural reaction to 'I'm a better rider on better trails cuz look what I bought'.
> Gear weenies are funny.


Never go to NorCal. They abound.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> Never go to NorCal. They abound.


 So I've heard.

I'm old, slow and shaky now (turned 50 the other day ) and have never advanced past being what I consider an intermediate level rider, but I can guarantee that on any group ride in technical terrain, I'm hitting and cleaning plenty of lines that a number of people that are far, far better at shopping than I am are not.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Funny how 2 people can read the same sentence and derive 2 different meanings. I re-skimmed the first 100 posts and there was one who eluded that droppers were needed for technical terrain and it was worded mostly in jest. Pretty much everyone else said 1 of 2 things, either "don't use them, don't need them" or "very nice to have, they improve my riding experience". I find it hard to argue against either of those statements.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

IMO, whether droppers are overrated or not really depends on skill level and terrain of said rider. That's the problem with asking people on the internet - you generally have no idea of what and how they ride but you typically get an unqualified opinion anyways.

I can say for my area (lots of singletrack, roots, punchy climbs, and lots of tight switchbacks), none of the fast guys that I am chasing are over-geared. The typical bike is a hardtail with no more than 100mm of suspension and in a few cases, rigid singlespeeds. The intermediate to slow guys are typically overgeared and overbiked.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> Funny how 2 people can read the same sentence and derive 2 different meanings. I re-skimmed the first 100 posts and there was one who eluded that droppers were needed for technical terrain and it was worded mostly in jest. Pretty much everyone else said 1 of 2 things, either "don't use them, don't need them" or "very nice to have, they improve my riding experience". I find it hard to argue against either of those statements.


Yeah, this thread isn't as wacky as some others in the past. There are still plenty of the sentiment that terrain dictates whether a dropper is needed to ride 'correctly' (ie - if you don't run one, you're not riding challenging trails or if you are, then you're riding them 'wrong') or that anyone that doesn't feel the need for one is some sort of luddite lycraing around on an out-of-date bike. I'd still love to see a bunch of pics / vids of the terrain people say they would have a tough time handling without one.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I've ridden and seen 30% grades ridden with a post all the way up, but it's not fun and personally it's not worth the risk. I'm not talking about a single drop, but a 300 foot fall line down to an off camber rock garden that is the start of our normal route. Flat rolling hills with less that 10% grades could be ridden comfortably and without a dropper, although I would still use one. It just adds so much safety and fun to my riding that I wouldn't go with out one.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Never go to NorCal. They abound.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


^ ^ ^

i have found the cool people/elitist snob ratio to be about 60/40-65/35 in my twenty-plus years of MTB'ing up here...i get a lot of stares like i've got two heads as a response for friendly greetings on the trail.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

alexbn921 said:


> I've ridden and seen 30% grades ridden with a post all the way up, but it's not fun and personally it's not worth the risk. I'm not talking about a single drop, but a 300 foot fall line down to an off camber rock garden that is the start of our normal route.


Does this trail have a name? Or any pics/videos you can link to?
A 300 foot high, 30 degree fall-line is the opening move? 
Do you guys have to climb up ropes to get back to the start point once you're done with the ride? Or is 30 degrees not really all that steep?


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> There's nothing at all wrong with dropper posts, or with anyone that prefers to use one. They're great for a lot of people for a lot of reasons, but the dogmatic gear-weenie position that they're a necessity for every person riding anything other than a sidewalk is a joke. Almost as funny as the folks that sound like wannabe trailside Dancing With the Stars judges or something.





J.B. Weld said:


> I haven't seen any posts from the pro-dropper crowd like that but maybe I missed them. Pretty much everyone advocating them reiterates basically the same thing, that yes, you can do just about anything on a mtb without a dropper but having your seat lower makes certain things much easier and allows for more a optimal body position.
> 
> At least that's the way I read them and I agree, I doubt anyone would argue that raising the seat on a bmx bike to road bike height would be a wise thing to do. Yes, bmx and mtb are much different but depending on ones riding style there can be crossover areas.


I agree with JB here. I have not seen any dogmatic replies that one MUST ALWAYS USE DROPPER OR THEY SUCK.

Look back at all my replies, I am pro-dropper, but I have really good reasons to backup why I am and why others might not be.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Does this trail have a name? Or any pics/videos you can link to?
> A 300 foot high, 30 degree fall-line is the opening move?
> Do you guys have to climb up ropes to get back to the start point once you're done with the ride? Or is 30 degrees not really all that steep?


30% is the average. Most of it is 40+%. I'll have to look for video. I know there is some floating around.








Found One. Scott is stupid fast. It's hilarious to watch normal riders on this trail. Ass pucker the whole time.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Dropper? Over rated. Long leg guy here. Just get the weight back over the seat some. YRMV.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

alexbn921 said:


> Found One. Scott is stupid fast. It's hilarious to watch normal riders on this trail. Ass pucker the whole time.


Looks fun as hell! Definitely not something I'd consider 'puker-worthy', but seems that you can get a decent rip going. Camera definitely makes it fairly flat though; that and the lack of tech.

Here's the type of run in this area that I'd probably drop my seat a couple inches for, starting ~45s in:






Can't say I'd drop for any one section if I ran into them on a 'regular' ride, but all strung together it would probably be worth it.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Looks fun as hell! Definitely not something I'd consider 'puker-worthy', but seems that you can get a decent rip going. Camera definitely makes it fairly flat though; that and the lack of tech.
> 
> Here's the type of run in this area that I'd probably drop my seat a couple inches for, starting ~45s in:
> 
> ...


looks fun.

LOL here's the same trail with some guys high posting. Barely any speed difference.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

alexbn921 said:


> looks fun.
> 
> LOL here's the same trail with some guys high posting. Barely any speed difference.


Yeah...there's a whole lot more than a seatpost inovolved in that difference...holy crap, get off the brakes boys! I'm no speed demon, but man, those guys are slow as **** up, down, and all around.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## @[email protected] (Aug 25, 2017)

jochribs said:


> Yeah, I'll make sure I post back when I hit my knees any worse than I already have or scrape my non gloved hands or find some other accoutrement in order to go do what I've been doing at an above average level for 23 years.


I'm sure all of the guys in here are impressed. Is that what you're going for?


jochribs said:


> You need it in order to feel the part. I and everyone else must too.
> 
> It's getting deep in here.


Feel the part? Is that what you are starving for? To feel "part" of something? I wear pads to keep my 250lbs from mashing up a knee or an elbow on a rock when something doesn't go as expected, or when some jackass like you comes barreling down with no regard to other riders on the trail.


jochribs said:


> And aren't you the guy who was also talking out of his depth about brakes and disc rub?


No, that wasn't me. I simply said anyone who says that they don't accept brake pad rub to some degree was lying.


jochribs said:


> It's all coming even more clear. Stop typing and ride your bike on some non ADA trails for a few years and then get back to me. By then I'll bet you won't want to post as by then you'll have the hindsight knowledge that you really don't know your ass from a hole in the ground right now. Some humility and experience can help if you let it.


I'll bet the reason that you have so much time to ride is because you can't hold a job because you act irl like you do here.


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## 101 (Nov 14, 2017)

The 30% grade post invoked thoughts of Hogsback in Durango. I don't know what the actual grade is and I haven't ridden it but I did hike up and back down it and elected to butt-scoot the steepest section because of the steepness. Pics and videos do not do it justice. It's freakin' steep. I'm sure it's been done on vintage Mtn bikes. I wouldn't be surprised if it's been done on a unicycle. There are steeper trails in town, but none have the consequences of Hogsback. You could also tack on the pressure of being highly viewable from town anytime you decide to descend it. A guy at my gym got the ugliest broken nose I've ever seen on this descent.

Anyway, from what I've seen, most riders drop the seat all the way down and ride the rear wheel all the way down. I'd be interested to see someone do it sitting on a high seat. Extreme example? Yes.


__
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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Hogsback has a 24% 500 foot drop. Although there are 60+% and there is more exposure. Looks like a fun trail. We have another trail that has 60% grade threw an open field into some crazy wall rides. Absolutely no ability to slow down once you commit to the line.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

i don't ride grades and lines that make me want to get sick...

hats off to those who do.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

The idea is to get flat rather than back. BITD we'd get as far back as possible because there was a saddle in the way. We'd flatten out on our bike as far as we could go until our chest was resting on the saddle, and while we could ride a lot of steep terrain that way it would unweight the front end and we'd have less control when trying to turn. With the saddle down and out of the way you can get lower, so directional changes are more balanced.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

I love my droppers for 3 reasons.

A). It is safer on skinnies, jumps, and technical sections, because you're closer to the ground and have more freedom to move around on the bike.

2). I hate getting caught behind my seat on super steep sections. It doesn't hapen often, but once is enough.

D). I don't enjoy crushing my testicles when landing drops. I use my legs for suspension, and I don't like making contact with my seat with any part of my body.

In summary, I feel much more confident jumping and riding skinnies/technical sections with a droppd seat. I don't get caught behind my seat at inopportune times. My testicles feel better when they are not absorbing my body weight from a significant drop. There are things I could ride without droping my seat, but I'd rather not, and I don't enjoy stopping to raise or lower my seat.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

That IG video from Durango is a great example of what not to do when riding a steep slope. His arms are close to full extension, he’s way too far back, and you can see the front end getting light.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Nat said:


> The idea is to get flat rather than back. BITD we'd get as far back as possible because there was a saddle in the way. We'd flatten out on our bike as far as we could go until our chest was resting on the saddle, and while we could ride a lot of steep terrain that way it would unweight the front end and we'd have less control when trying to turn. With the saddle down and out of the way you can get lower, so directional changes are more balanced.


Bingo

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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

mountainbiker24 said:


> I love my droppers for 3 reasons.
> 
> A). It is safer on skinnies, jumps, and technical sections, because you're closer to the ground and have more freedom to move around on the bike.
> 
> ...


A)
2)
D)

Was that on purpose?


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Dropper posts are better than static posts...

Because, they drop o_0 automatically ;-P

Cheque please!!

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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

I find it funny that the dropper crowd doesn't realize that in the old days we used to drop our seats with a quick release. Long ride up, drop your seat, put on pads and shred the downhill.
I run a dropper on my trail bike and love it but it bewilders me when I ride with someone and they drop their seat for every little roll on the trail. Then they call it a game changer. I guess they will have to save up for a e-bike specific dropper.


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## d4nt3ch (Sep 17, 2015)

Thustlewhumber said:


> I personally can't take anyone who doesn't use a dropper and wear knee-pads serious anymore. It's like seeing someone riding on a Trek Y bike claiming that "It works just fine!". Guys, it's almost 2018...


LOL. This is legit.

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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> A)
> 2)
> D)
> 
> Was that on purpose?


I think that's Buzz's line from Home Alone... I'm not positive, though. I'll have to watch it tonight and get back to you.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

mountainbiker24 said:


> I think that's Buzz's line from Home Alone... I'm not positive, though. I'll have to watch it tonight and get back to you.


Ahhh. . . makes sense now after watching this scene. I never saw the movie so I thought maybe you hit your head prior to that post.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

d4nt3ch said:


> LOL. This is legit.


Sure - as long as you're one of those guys that think shopping = mountain biking.
Speaking of people that are tough to take seriously...


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Thustlewhumber said:


> I personally can't take anyone who doesn't use a dropper and wear knee-pads serious anymore. It's like seeing someone riding on a Trek Y bike claiming that "It works just fine!". Guys, it's almost 2018...


 You assume everyone has hills or climbs of and extended nature? Knee pads? Only on some rides. Maybe some of are freakishly large with really long legs?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Thustlewhumber said:


> I personally can't take anyone who doesn't use a dropper and wear knee-pads serious anymore. It's like seeing someone riding on a Trek Y bike claiming that "It works just fine!". Guys, it's almost 2018...


Wait a minute, I'm confused, who am I not supposed to take serious anymore?

1) anyone who doesn't use a dropper and DOES wear knee-pads

or

2) anyone who doesn't use a dropper and DOESN'T wear knee-pads

I want to be sure I get this straight.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

chazpat said:


> I want to be sure I get this straight.


I only take bent people seriously


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

cmg71 said:


> I only take bent people seriously


Get bent. LOL..are you old enough to remember that slang expression?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Get bent. LOL..are you old enough to remember that slang expression?


What do you think the 71 in my username means?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

cmg71 said:


> What do you think the 71 in my username means?


71 and up on a wheelie on a fatty. :thumbsup:


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

RAKC Ind said:


> I was one that was big into pissing ppl here off saying "you dont NEED a dropper, all beginners are far from needing one, lot more they need to worry about and upgrade before dropping coin on a dropper. No one NEEDS a dropper post and their way overrated"
> 
> Now that I tried and put one on my trail bike I understand the love for them. Still far from needed or really useful for starting out they are SO FLIPPING NICE TO HAVE! Can be so much faster in many aspects because of them. Mainly high speed corners and steep decents.
> 
> ...


Mountain biking is still a small, small sport not yet mainstream. Plus decent equipments would give any newcomers sticker shock. If they don't like it it could be quite costly.

That said, beginners need all the help they can get. The ability to lower the saddle height is definitely a huge plus.

Sure anyone can "learn the right way" but why? This day and age, we don't need to anymore. You want instant boost of confidence, you got it, it's a trigger away.

I'm not the earliest adopter of the dropper post but I sure did embrace it. All the guys I rode with share the same view you do, noobs need to learn, and they don't need expensive stuffs. Both are not related to noobs riding a mountain bike, unless they plan to quit the sport. I got the post and got the look on the first ride and lots of heckling. In the next few months, I found myself riding the rear tire of the fastest rider til he had to let me pass.

You can buy it and the skill will transfer to conventional set up, there's no down side except for cost. It's like LTE and edge comparison, you can certainly get by with basic but it's much nicer with the upgrades.

Very few people can use their bike to the limit so it's not about that.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

cmg71 said:


> What do you think the 71 in my username means?


Head tube angle?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

chazpat said:


> Head tube angle?


:madman: I almost guessed it.


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## Grassington (Jun 24, 2017)

evasive said:


> That IG video from Durango is a great example of what not to do when riding a steep slope. His arms are close to full extension, he's way too far back, and you can see the front end getting light.


Depends on how steep the slope is, innit. If it's insanely steep then that body position is absolutely necessary to avoid going OTB*, the downside being that it's not a good position for controlling the bike. Not much that it's possible to do about that though as it's even harder to control a bike if you're going A-over-T.

* The OTB tipping point is where the centre of gravity is forward of the front tyre's contact patch. The only way to avoid this on a stupidly steep downhill is to move the body as far back and as low as possible. It's a nice safe position too as the bailout move is just to fall on your butt and let the bike tumble down the slope. OK, not very safe for the bike I suppose...


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Grassington said:


> Depends on how steep the slope is, innit. If it's insanely steep then that body position is absolutely necessary to avoid going OTB*, the downside being that it's not a good position for controlling the bike. Not much that it's possible to do about that though as it's even harder to control a bike if you're going A-over-T.
> 
> * The OTB tipping point is where the centre of gravity is forward of the front tyre's contact patch. The only way to avoid this on a stupidly steep downhill is to move the body as far back and as low as possible. It's a nice safe position too as the bailout move is just to fall on your butt and let the bike tumble down the slope. OK, not very safe for the bike I suppose...


That's old school thought and rather incorrect.

You need to get LOW AND BACK. Not just back. Having a high post makes it so you can't do that.

Also, the moment your arms go straight, you no longer have options. You always need to maintain a slight bend.

You must stay loose and fluid over the bike. The position you describe is very static.

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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Grassington said:


> Depends on how steep the slope is, innit. If it's insanely steep then that body position is absolutely necessary to avoid going OTB*, the downside being that it's not a good position for controlling the bike. Not much that it's possible to do about that though as it's even harder to control a bike if you're going A-over-T.
> 
> * The OTB tipping point is where the centre of gravity is forward of the front tyre's contact patch. The only way to avoid this on a stupidly steep downhill is to move the body as far back and as low as possible. It's a nice safe position too as the bailout move is just to fall on your butt and let the bike tumble down the slope. OK, not very safe for the bike I suppose...


Agreed with silentfoe. And that slope isn't that steep, certainly not "insanely." You avoid going OTB by keeping your weight centered over the BB, not behind it.

Here's a recent photo from Bartlett's, on a much steeper face. I don't claim to have model form, but notice that I'm low and leaning into it. Bent elbows are the tell.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I am an admitted skeptic, based on a couple of demos I've ridden with droppers. But as I investigate them further, I have come up with a couple of questions for those who use droppers:
What amount of drop makes it worthwhile to have a dropper? I hear riders talking about slamming the seat down and out of the way, but some of the droppers I've seen only move the seat down 65mm. That hardly seems worth the expense and effort when my bikes have 180mm-250mm of exposed seat post. What is the minimum drop you would suggest? 
Secondly, I have not seen any droppers with offset seat clamps. Does anyone make a decent dropper with an offset clamp? My bikes all have Thompsen layback posts on them and a post without an offset clamp makes my bikes feel funny.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

sgltrak said:


> I am an admitted skeptic, based on a couple of demos I've ridden with droppers. But as I investigate them further, I have come up with a couple of questions for those who use droppers:
> What amount of drop makes it worthwhile to have a dropper? I hear riders talking about slamming the seat down and out of the way, but some of the droppers I've seen only move the seat down 65mm. That hardly seems worth the expense and effort when my bikes have 180mm-250mm of exposed seat post. What is the minimum drop you would suggest?
> Secondly, I have not seen any droppers with offset seat clamps. Does anyone make a decent dropper with an offset clamp? My bikes all have Thompsen layback posts on them and a post without an offset clamp makes my bikes feel funny.


It depends on what you are riding and how. The longer the dropper stroke the more it will weigh. Any amount of extra movement is a good thing so there are lightweight short stroke posts built with XC racing, maybe CX bikes too in some instances, in mind.

As to proper length that is determined by intended use, seattube length, and your inseam.

9point8 makes an excellent post that has an offset head.

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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

tuckerjt07 said:


> It depends on what you are riding and how. The longer the dropper stroke the more it will weigh. Any amount of extra movement is a good thing so there are lightweight short stroke posts built with XC racing, maybe CX bikes too in some instances, in mind.
> 
> As to proper length that is determined by intended use, seattube length, and your inseam.
> 
> ...


With all that said, there is no dropper that has a setback / offset / layback like what you are used to with your Thomson ridged designs, Sgltrak. If thats what you were asking.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

sgltrak said:


> I am an admitted skeptic, based on a couple of demos I've ridden with droppers. But as I investigate them further, I have come up with a couple of questions for those who use droppers:
> What amount of drop makes it worthwhile to have a dropper? I hear riders talking about slamming the seat down and out of the way, but some of the droppers I've seen only move the seat down 65mm. That hardly seems worth the expense and effort when my bikes have 180mm-250mm of exposed seat post. What is the minimum drop you would suggest?
> Secondly, I have not seen any droppers with offset seat clamps. Does anyone make a decent dropper with an offset clamp? My bikes all have Thompsen layback posts on them and a post without an offset clamp makes my bikes feel funny.


9ponit8 makes a setback post. They also make one of the lightest.
Ideal drop is very dependent on the terrain your riding and if you are racing.
For my XC bike I could get away with 80-100mm drop and keep the post as light as possible. I have a 150mm now and I never need all of it racing.

Same bike was my trail bike and I started with a 75, then 100 and finally 150. Every time I increased the drop my confidence increased.

When I built my new bike, I installed a 200mm dropper. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to feel it under me and I use the seat to brace against. I can still use the seat and on the really steep stuff the seat just disappears. Gone, gone. I have full freedom of movement over the bike. my frame could fit a 215mm dropper and if they made one I would buy it.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Looking at my Specialized Command Post IRCC, I'd say it has at least an inch of setback. Mike, I'll be up in FoCo over the holidays if you want to check it out. 









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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

^ What? It's only setback because of the frame design, not the post itself.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> With all that said, there is no dropper that has a setback / offset / layback like what you are used to with your Thomson ridged designs, Sgltrak. If thats what you were asking.


DJ, according to the Thomson website, the setback on those posts is only 16mm, which is roughly the same as the clamp offset on my Ritchey post. My Easton EC 70 post has about 25mm of clamp offset.



















Le Duke said:


> Looking at my Specialized Command Post IRCC, I'd say it has at least an inch of setback. Mike, I'll be up in FoCo over the holidays if you want to check it out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks like that clamp offset might be enough. Thanks. Maybe we can connect while you're in town.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> ^ What? It's only setback because of the frame design, not the post itself.


And? It could have the cradle/clamp in line with the post; it doesn't. They have other models with no offset/set back.

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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Le Duke said:


> And? It could have the cradle/clamp in line with the post; it doesn't. They have other models with no offset/set back.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Take a photo without your hand in the way so I can see what you're talking about.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Sgltrak, you need a new seat.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Take a photo without your hand in the way so I can see what you're talking about.


Pardon my poorly lit garage.









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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

The movement of the seat going down or up changes the layback of the seat on all the designs I've seen.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Le Duke said:


> Pardon my poorly lit garage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yours is about the same as mine in angle layback. But as I said it changes as the seat goes down.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yours is about the same as mine in angle layback. But as I said it changes as the seat goes down.


The setback or offset we are talking about is the distance the center of the clamp bolt sits behind the extension of a line running up the center of the seatpost. While the saddle position moves forward relative to the rest of the bike as the seat drops, the distance of the seat clamp behind the centerline of the seatpost remains static.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

sgltrak said:


> The setback or offset we are talking about is the distance the center of the clamp bolt sits behind the extension of a line running up the center of the seatpost. While the saddle position moves forward relative to the rest of the bike as the seat drops, the distance of the seat clamp behind the centerline of the seatpost remains static.


Sounds impossible to me. How could one remain the same while the other changes as the seat goes up or down? Your body or butt is in the seat. The seat goes down and your body moves with the seat. It moves forward as the seat goes down.

After I typed that I took another look and I suppose you are right as far as the bolt is concerned. But I still think there is a difference in the position of the center of the seat as it goes down in relation to the bike as it is static.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Sgltrak, you need a new seat.


Seat(s). Those are on different bikes. They are just getting broken in. 
My rear has become molded to that model saddle over the past 25 years, so I have it on all almost all of my bikes. No sense changing now.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

sgltrak said:


> Seat(s). Those are on different bikes. They are just getting broken in.
> My rear has become molded to that model saddle over the past 25 years, so I have it on all almost all of my bikes. No sense changing now.
> 
> View attachment 1170427


Your new nickname shall be Miles. LOL, you put enough of them in.


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

sgltrak said:


> Seat(s). Those are on different bikes. They are just getting broken in.
> My rear has become molded to that model saddle over the past 25 years, so I have it on all almost all of my bikes. No sense changing now.
> 
> View attachment 1170427


Have 40 year old saddles that look better than those. What in the world do you do to them?


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

sapva said:


> Have 40 year old saddles that look better than those. What in the world do you do to them?


I ride them a lot (average of 2600 miles per year for the past 20+ years). Riding off road most of those miles means moving around on the saddle a lot to gain the optimum position while climbing and descending (No dropper post to get them out of the way). Also, the occasional crash takes its toll.
The saddle on the silver post has been on 6 or 7 bikes over the past 25 years. It has a tear in it from a crash on the Monarch Crest trail in 1994.
Even in their current condition, they still do what they are supposed to do: support my rear. They don't have to be pretty to do that.


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

Lol! Having a difficult time discerning between the "tear" and the rest of the saddle. Mink oil will help keep them from drying out. Although, going out on a limb here, it may be just a little too late for those unfortunate specimens.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

I've mentioned the relevance of bike geometry in this thread already, but yesterday's ride reminded me of it.

I don't have a dropper post on my fatbike (yet; waiting until after Xmas). It's a 2017 Rocky Mountain Blizzard -50. It has modern-ish geometry with a 67* HTA and short-for-a-fatbike rear center of 435 mm. Aside from 11mm more chainstay length, it's nearly a clone of the Yelli Screamy I used to own. Like that bike, hanging off the rear end just doesn't work. It unweights the front wheel and you wash out. 4.8" tires reduce that tendency somewhat, but this is still a bike that rewards a forward position. 

I went out yesterday for a typical summer ride that involves some fast DH stretches, and ends with a 2-mile DH. With my saddle in an intermediate position, when I was descending my junk was right on the tail of the saddle. It wasn't ideal, but for the reasons outlined above, I didn't want to shift my hips any farther back. I definitely put the saddle way down for the final segment.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

For those on the fence about getting a dropper. Sometimes they can be a real benefit in certain technical terrain.

Case in point, no dropper and seat is set way too high.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

sapva said:


> Lol! Having a difficult time discerning between the "tear" and the rest of the saddle. Mink oil will help keep them from drying out. Although, going out on a limb here, it may be just a little too late for those unfortunate specimens.


Ha!
Here is a better view of the tear on top:


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Case in point, no dropper and seat is set way too high.
> View attachment 1170646


Yes, sadly that was me pre dropper post. Since getting a dropper I've grown 4 inches taller, added 30 pounds of muscle and can bunny hop over a pallet of Diet Coke.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> For those on the fence about getting a dropper. Sometimes they can be a real benefit in certain technical terrain.
> 
> Case in point, no dropper and seat is set way too high.
> View attachment 1170646


Good form with the elbows bent though!


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> For those on the fence about getting a dropper. Sometimes they can be a real benefit in certain technical terrain.
> 
> Case in point, no dropper and seat is set way too high.
> View attachment 1170646


Man....pictures never do it justice. I'm sure it's way steeper in real life.


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## burtjason (Oct 31, 2015)

This pic reminds me of the Seinfeld "finale" in which a fat guy gets mugged while Jerry, George and Elaine casually observe it and make smug comments instead of helping the guy. Meanwhile, Kramer is recording on his camera. They are all arrested, tried and sentenced because of an obscure new law in that town because they didn't attempt to help. So, in this picture, the guy falls over on his scooter/cart and is in need of help. Yet, the first thing the closest person does........is whip out his phone....lol.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

burtjason said:


> This pic reminds me of the Seinfeld "finale" in which a fat guy gets mugged while Jerry, George and Elaine casually observe it and make smug comments instead of helping the guy. Meanwhile, Kramer is recording on his camera. They are all arrested, tried and sentenced because of an obscure new law in that town because they didn't attempt to help. So, in this picture, the guy falls over on his scooter/cart and is in need of help. Yet, the first thing the closest person does........is whip out his phone....lol.


That was part I of a 2 part show series which was the final episode.


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## burtjason (Oct 31, 2015)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> That was part I of a 2 part show series which was the final episode.


Part 1 included the event and arrest. Part 2 was the trial that included many of the guest stars from previous episodes. Sorry to derail the thread. I feel my dropper post has made me a better rider.......while having more fun riding.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Case in point, no dropper and seat is set way too high.


I hate that I can't give you rep for this.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Jayem said:


> I hate that I can't give you rep for this.


Covered.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

sgltrak said:


> Seat(s). Those are on different bikes. They are just getting broken in.
> My rear has become molded to that model saddle over the past 25 years, so I have it on all almost all of my bikes. No sense changing now.
> 
> View attachment 1170427


Time to start a different dropper thread, because you just won this one.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jayem said:


> I hate that I can't give you rep for this.


Over the bars without a dropper again? 



slapheadmofo said:


> Covered.


Thank you gentlemen, but all I did was show the danger of what could happen without a dropper.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Thank you gentlemen, but all I did was show the danger of what could happen without a dropper.


Interestingly, I was just in Oklahoma a couple weeks ago.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jayem said:


> Interestingly, I was just in Oklahoma a couple weeks ago.


Lost me here.


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## daniel366940 (Sep 23, 2017)

I am looking into getting a dropper for my trek top fuel xc bike . 
I do not have a problem going down fast flowing trails with seat up .
I find there more of an issue in the tight woodland singletrack with lots of tight turns i find i cannot get my weight low enough to lean the bike over without the seat catching my inner legs .
Would a dropper help in these conditions please ?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

daniel366940 said:


> I am looking into getting a dropper for my trek top fuel xc bike .
> I do not have a problem going down fast flowing trails with seat up .
> I find there more of an issue in the tight woodland singletrack with lots of tight turns i find i cannot get my weight low enough to lean the bike over without the seat catching my inner legs .
> Would a dropper help in these conditions please ?


Yes. I use one on my race bike for this purpose.

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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

daniel366940 said:


> I am looking into getting a dropper for my trek top fuel xc bike .
> I do not have a problem going down fast flowing trails with seat up .
> I find there more of an issue in the tight woodland singletrack with lots of tight turns i find i cannot get my weight low enough to lean the bike over without the seat catching my inner legs .
> Would a dropper help in these conditions please ?


It's not for everyone, but a saddle with a short nose will do the same thing. I've put specialized power saddles on all my bikes, and I can essentially corner as if the seat was dropped.


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## loop2kil (Apr 22, 2016)

sgltrak said:


> Ha!
> Here is a better view of the tear on top:
> 
> View attachment 1170665


That is impressive my friend...from the looks of the wear you were riding very evenly on both sides for all of those years. You're my new hero 

As far as the OP, I have a dropper because it came with the bike but if i didn't have it I would be fine. I use it on newer trail rides when I see a downhill that 'could be sketchy' but on trails I ride a lot I hardly ever use it even on the downhills. Keep in mind I ride in middle GA so my DH's are short and sweet and over with before you can blink (then you're climbing again). I find using one more of a hassle most of the time though if I were riding trails with longer downhill sections I could see where having one comes in handy.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

daniel366940 said:


> I am looking into getting a dropper for my trek top fuel xc bike .
> I do not have a problem going down fast flowing trails with seat up .
> I find there more of an issue in the tight woodland singletrack with lots of tight turns i find i cannot get my weight low enough to lean the bike over without the seat catching my inner legs .
> Would a dropper help in these conditions please ?


Yes. Even dropping the saddle a couple of centimeters as you head into the tight twisties will be noticeable.

Alternatively you could get your butt behind/below the saddle to lower your center of gravity but then you'd have uneven weight distribution on the bike and handling wouldn't as good as it could be.


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## daniel366940 (Sep 23, 2017)

Thats it to be in the optimum position for traction in the tight bends the saddle ends up catching my inner thighs then i cannot lean the bike enough to get a tight turn


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Just ride your bike. . .suspension or no suspension, fat or narrow tires, new or old geometry, large or small wheels, carbon, aluminum, steel or titanium, narrow or wide bars, gears or single speed, dropper post or rigid. . . .for Christ sakes.


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## daniel366940 (Sep 23, 2017)

i took the plunge and fitted a ks lev ci to my top fuel 9.9rsl. It came in pretty light at under 400g . Just over 200g heavier than my rigid post . You cannot really notice the extra weight . Went out for first ride today and was very confidence inspiring on the faster corners and i even found my self lowering in briefly to get round tight switchback whilst climbing .
I think after a few more rides i will find it handy in many areas happy so far


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Just ride your bike. . .suspension or no suspension, fat or narrow tires, new or old geometry, large or small wheels, carbon, aluminum, steel or titanium, narrow or wide bars, gears or single speed, dropper post or rigid. . . .for Christ sakes.


So, are you voting that dropper post benefits are exaggerated the exact correct amount?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

ex·ag·ger·ate
iɡˈzajəˌrāt/Submit
verb
past tense: exaggerated; past participle: exaggerated
represent (something) as being larger, greater, better, or worse than it really is.
"they were apt to exaggerate any aches and pains"
synonyms:	overstate, overemphasize, overestimate, magnify, amplify, aggrandize, inflate; More
enlarged or altered beyond normal or due proportions.
adjective: exaggerated
"her plump thighs, exaggerated hips, and minuscule waist"

Over exaggerated is not possible, something is exaggerated or not. Just like you can't be over dead 

There is no need to bring Christ into this conversation, pretty sure he never mentioned bikes at all.


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## Thrashbarg (Mar 28, 2017)

Travis Bickle said:


> Over exaggerated is not possible, something is exaggerated or not. Just like you can't be over dead


But you can be deader than a shitbug


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

IPunchCholla said:


> So, are you voting that dropper post benefits are exaggerated the exact correct amount?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Sure, I'll go along with that.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Droppah posts lol.....


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

Travis Bickle said:


> Over exaggerated is not possible, something is exaggerated or not. Just like you can't be over dead


I agree, 110%!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

the one ring said:


> I agree, 110%!


lol

Exaggerated means "hmm, maybe he's stretching it a bit"
Over exaggerated means "that's a load of bs"


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Droppah posts lol.....


Give me a dropper to go with my Strava, and get the hell out my way


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Dropper benefits;

Looks cool
Makes you better looking
More confidence off the bike

Rigid post benefits;

Looks dorky
Scabs
People leave you alone because they perceive weirdness


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Travis Bickle said:


> Give me a dropper to go with my Strava, and get the hell out my way


Must. Resist. Further. Comment.😂


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

Travis Bickle said:


> Dropper benefits;
> 
> Looks cool
> Makes you better looking
> ...


 You are a adult that rides a bicycle, the general population already perceives you as weird. We only have each other for support.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

If I feel the need for a low seat, rear suspension, and fat tires, this be the go to. Going uphill on these is way Moore fun than going DH on any MTB haha.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

HacksawReynolds said:


> If I feel the need for a low seat, rear suspension, and fat tires, this be the go to. Going uphill on these is way Moore fun than going DH on any MTB haha.
> View attachment 1173813


Yes, but the MTB is faster on the DH


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

HacksawReynolds said:


> If I feel the need for a low seat, rear suspension, and fat tires, this be the go to. Going uphill on these is way Moore fun than going DH on any MTB haha.
> View attachment 1173813


Especially if your going to ride straight down a vertical face.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Ya but everywhere else.......

And riding is all about riding IT ALL amirite?


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Just ride your bike. . .suspension or no suspension, fat or narrow tires, new or old geometry, large or small wheels, carbon, aluminum, steel or titanium, narrow or wide bars, gears or single speed, dropper post or rigid. . . .for Christ sakes.


I'm close.
As soon as I get two more upgrades done... my bike will be safe to ride.

(((SO SAYETH THE INTERWEBZZZ)))


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Thrashbarg said:


> But you can be deader than a shitbug


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## Strafer (Jun 7, 2004)

Disco will be back soon enough, I'm afraid.


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## Grassington (Jun 24, 2017)

Silentfoe said:


> Grassington said:
> 
> 
> > Depends on how steep the slope is, innit. If it's insanely steep then that body position is absolutely necessary to avoid going OTB*, the downside being that it's not a good position for controlling the bike. Not much that it's possible to do about that though as it's even harder to control a bike if you're going A-over-T.
> ...


Yup, agreed - low and back (as I said). For maximum lowness and backness: arms locked straight, rear tyre only a gnat's away from being an impromptu butt flosser. I also agree that this position doesn't allow for many manoeuvring options, but if the slope is seriously steep then this is the only position that will prevent you going OTB. It's possible to adopt this position with the seatpost fully extended, but there's the risk of getting a gut punch from the saddle and once you're back on level terrain getting back on the saddle can be tricky.



evasive said:


> Agreed with silentfoe. And that slope isn't that steep, certainly not "insanely." You avoid going OTB by keeping your weight centered over the BB, not behind it.
> 
> Here's a recent photo from Bartlett's, on a much steeper face. I don't claim to have model form, but notice that I'm low and leaning into it. Bent elbows are the tell.


It's difficult to tell how steep a slope is from a video clip or photo. Could the rider have adopted the same body position as in your photo above? Dunno - depends on the steepness of the slope. Your body position in your pic is ideal for a moderately steep slope, but try that on a stupidly steep slope and over the bars you go. Just to reiterate, it's CoG over the footprint edge that defines the tipping point, not BB. I can see where the confusion may arise though as a downline from the BB could easily be in about the same position as the CoG downline at the tipping point, but when it comes to an object toppling over then all physics cares about is the CoG moving outside the footprint.

I think we may have different opinions about what constitutes a seriously steep slope. With maximal lowness and backness it's possible to ride down stupidly steep slopes that wouldn't be possible in any other way. There is, however, a limit to how long this can be maintained due to braking limitations, so a 60 degree slope for 20 metres - not a problem; 60 degree slope for 200 metres - bit trickier.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Haha the koolaid is strong in this one......


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## LittleBitey (Nov 10, 2012)

rlee said:


> You are a adult that rides a bicycle, the general population already perceives you as weird. We only have each other for support.


So much truth


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I was dismissing this thread for the longest time, but I have to give some credit to the dropper.
Just got back from Ray's Indoor MTB Park. I started with my saddle on my 29er (not any kind of park bike, but up to the task) dropped. Granted, this is NE Ohio. There is really no terrain that demands a dropper, but Ray's is constructed in such a way that the average rider will be exposed to lots of stuff they'd never see on a local trail. The benefit of having more room to maneuver is totally real. A buddy that I've ridden with for over 20 yrs. remarked that I was showing uncharacteristic smoothness and even a hint of style. Those were very telling words because he can pick me out of 100 other riders from a mile away. I had more room to adjust, position the bike, place the tires on the deck, and correct any miscalculations, esp. on the pump track, and on the jump lines. I also felt a lot more leverage on the turns, and I could get lower to facilitate better turns.
Normally, the raised saddle could only come up to my chest, and that was the limit. It didn't make anything unrideable, but it imposed a limit that no longer needs to be tolerated.
Will I buy an actual dropper?
It's still added weight and complexity that I feel I could do without, but if my trails called for it regularly, I'd be strongly inclined to install one.

-F


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

Ray's MTB Park looks like fun. Wish there was something like that in this area.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

HacksawReynolds said:


> If I feel the need for a low seat, rear suspension, and fat tires, this be the go to. Going uphill on these is way Moore fun than going DH on any MTB haha.
> View attachment 1173813


good for you, want a cookie?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

sapva said:


> Ray's MTB Park looks like fun. Wish there was something like that in this area.


You guys don't have any skateparks or DJ spots? 
You've gotta.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

ryguy79 said:


> good for you, want a cookie?


Yes please. Oatmeal chocolate chip!?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

ryguy79 said:


> good for you, want a cookie?


Looks like he's trying to learn how to ride a dirt bike. Wrong shoes, no helmet no gloves. Wrong riding position.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Looks like he's trying to learn how to ride a dirt bike. Wrong shoes, no helmet no gloves. Wrong riding position.


No droppah post haha. Driveway putzing. Sneaks and shades are more than enough.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

HacksawReynolds said:


> No droppah post haha. Driveway putzing. Sneaks and shades are more than enough.


I will give you high points for choosing a 2-stroke over a 4-stroke.


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## ntm1973 (Jan 7, 2013)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I will give you high points for choosing a 2-stroke over a 4-stroke.


Agreed but he looses a few points for having his pants rolled up like that.

Then again, it is a 6 days model so it is probably a wash.

Sent from my SM-S902L using Tapatalk


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

It was super hot out, but yeah the rolled pants like that is kinda ghey.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

Fleas said:


> It's still added weight and complexity that I feel I could do without,
> 
> -F


I don't understand the "complexity" stigma associated with a dropper. A front derailleur is like 10x more complex, and if we could all operate those things then actuating a dropper should be super easy, right?


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

A lot of people don't want front deraileurs either for similar reasons.....


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Thustlewhumber said:


> I don't understand the "complexity" stigma associated with a dropper. A front derailleur is like 10x more complex, and if we could all operate those things then actuating a dropper should be super easy, right?


Ummmm what????

Every time ya turn around, it seems as tho someone is experiencing a droppah post failure of some sort. I've never in 30 years MTB ever had a front derailleur failure nor have I had to service one other than an adjustment screw turn here and there.

One thing that droppah posts and front derailleurs have in common is that they are both unnecessary and just add weight.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

I pity the poor fool.................that can't ride a bike without a dropper post.................


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Ummmm what????
> 
> Every time ya turn around, it seems as tho someone is experiencing a droppah post failure of some sort. I've never in 30 years MTB ever had a front derailleur failure nor have I had to service one other than an adjustment screw turn here and there.
> 
> One thing that droppah posts and front derailleurs have in common is that they are both unnecessary and just add weight.


:thumbsup:.....:thumbsup:.....:thumbsup:.....:thumbsup:


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

tom erb said:


> :thumbsup:.....:thumbsup:.....:thumbsup:.....:thumbsup:


I see you :thumbsup:..:thumbsup:...:thumbsup:...:thumbsup: and up you ..:thumbsup:..:thumbsup:


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Ummmm what????
> 
> Every time ya turn around, it seems as tho someone is experiencing a droppah post failure of some sort. I've never in 30 years MTB ever had a front derailleur failure nor have I had to service one other than an adjustment screw turn here and there.
> 
> One thing that droppah posts and front derailleurs have in common is that they are both unnecessary and just add weight.


Same can be said for a cassette, rear derailleur, brakes, and freewheel as well.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Same can be said for a cassette, rear derailleur, brakes, and freewheel as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


You forgot rider...................


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

tom erb said:


> You forgot rider...................


No, a rider is pretty essential. The four I listed are just nice to haves.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

This thread is getting too technical for me.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> This thread is getting too technical for me.


After replying to 30,213 post................You should know something by now!!....:idea:


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

tom erb said:


> After replying to 30,213 post................You should know something by now!!....:idea:


I know more than I lead on to.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

tom erb said:


> :thumbsup:.....:thumbsup:.....:thumbsup:.....:thumbsup:


Here's one of my front derailleur failures. It was jammed solid. Twas in Arizona.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Thustlewhumber said:


> I don't understand the "complexity" stigma associated with a dropper. A front derailleur is like 10x more complex, and if we could all operate those things then actuating a dropper should be super easy, right?


It is not the complexity of operating a dropper that is the issue, but rather the extra mechanical items that have the potential for failure. I ride hard tails (or soft tails) with no dropper and 1x9 drive trains in order to simplify my life. No pivot bearings to maintain, no shock to rebuild, no dropper to become loose or fail in the field, and durable and cheap drive train parts to replace. I prefer the bikes I have with mechanical disc brakes and with fork lockouts on the fork to the bikes I have with hydraulic actuated brakes and remotes because I don't like dealing with bleeding the lockout remotes and hydraulic brake lines. Simplicity translates directly to more money in my pocket and more riding time for me. That said, I still ride gears and a suspension fork because the benefits of those two things outweigh the costs in my mind and for my riding style.


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## Kodiakrider (Jan 14, 2018)

Dang, I just burned 2 hours reading this thread...

Sooo, I've been riding since the mid 80s and like a lot of the Gen X riders, I strictly hold to the high saddle pedal efficiency put my ass behind the seat on steep descent way of doing things. I always felt, and still feel like the seat is in the damn way. Back when the Hite Rite came out I was compelled but didn't like the thought of taking a hand off and working the seat post quick release. 

I pretty much viewed dropping the seat as a long descent thing and just sucking up the high seat on the short drops and descents as the price you pay for the joys of mtb. I can think of countless times I wished I could push a button and have my seat drop, even for fairly short dropping terrain. I'm not some super hero amazing gnar rider, I'm just a middle aged dude who likes to get out in the dirt. I completely see the usefulness of a drop post and can think of countless times in my riding life where I could have benefited from one, even if for a few seconds. The whole otb and yard saling my ass because my jacked up seat had my weight too high sucks and I never liked the extended arm situation if I was all behind the seat. It never felt like I had great control.

Can I live without one? Sure but why when I can spend a couple of bucks and have a better riding experience. I'm ordering one as soon as I know how my taxes are going to be this tax season.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

My dropper failed on me last ride. The cartridge shot out with incredible force, puncturing my femoral artery and I bled out (to death) right there on the trail.

Droppers. Not even once.


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

I don't have one but can definitely see the occasional utility (but the weight...)
I need to follow someone about my skill/speed level around my regular trails to see this dropper doohickey in action:thumbsup:


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

The extra weight is grossly overrated. Unless your on some insane weight weenie bike and weigh next to nothing yourself youll never notice the difference.

Im on my rigid fat bike now and havent missed my dropper but I havent really been able to ride the stuff at speeds I normally would.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I do have to say, after riding with a dropper, I got back on my dropper-less hardtail and immediately felt like a grasshopper. It just really felt weird riding with my seat height compromised and I ended up raising it about an inch.


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## splitendz (Nov 13, 2015)

RAKC Ind said:


> The extra weight is grossly overrated. Unless your on some insane weight weenie bike and weigh next to nothing yourself youll never notice the difference.
> 
> Im on my rigid fat bike now and havent missed my dropper but I havent really been able to ride the stuff at speeds I normally would.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Usually adds about 1lb...fairly substantial


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Thustlewhumber said:


> I don't understand the "complexity" stigma associated with a dropper. A front derailleur is like 10x more complex, and if we could all operate those things then actuating a dropper should be super easy, right?


Funny you mention that, because at least 3x a week, I see people swearing off a front derailleur, too.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

splitendz said:


> Usually adds about 1lb...fairly substantial


~2-300 for an alloy straight post vs. ~500 for a dropper so more like 1/2 lb difference. If you added a 1/2 pound weight to your bike for an hour ride I bet the difference would be barely measurable, if at all.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> ~2-300 for an alloy straight post vs. ~500 for a dropper so more like 1/2 lb difference. If you added a 1/2 pound weight to your bike for an hour ride I bet the difference would be barely measurable, if at all.


My last rigid post was 159g. KCNC Ti Pro Lite.

My dropper, all told, is 583g. Specialized Command Post IRCC.

424g difference. 0.93lb difference.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> My last rigid post was 159g. KCNC Ti Pro Lite.
> 
> My dropper, all told, is 583g. Specialized Command Post IRCC.
> 
> ...


True but you were running a light rigid post and were far from the lightest dropper available. You could have gotten within ~230g with a dropper.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> My last rigid post was 159g. KCNC Ti Pro Lite.
> 
> My dropper, all told, is 583g. Specialized Command Post IRCC.
> 
> ...


That's an unusually light rigid post, most mid range ones are more in the ~250+ gram range. My carbon RDO post is ~220g. I just googled a Reverb which seemed pretty common and they claimed ~520-560 g's so I think a ~1/2 lb. difference is a reasonable estimate for most people.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

splitendz said:


> Usually adds about 1lb...fairly substantial


They're totally worth their weight.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> True but you were running a light rigid post and were far from the lightest dropper available. You could have gotten within ~230g with a dropper.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


True on both counts. But, I've killed several others (Reverb and DOSS) on an XC HT race bike previously, and several friends had had good luck with the Spec. And it was super cheap. I ride my MTB 4x a week and it's held up for two years now. No maintenance other than adding air.

Next one will be the light 9point8.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> True on both counts. But, I've killed several others (Reverb and DOSS) on an XC HT race bike previously, and several friends had had good luck with the Spec. And it was super cheap. I ride my MTB 4x a week and it's held up for two years now. No maintenance other than adding air.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


FallLine R XC is in preproduction and weighs 385 installed. I haven't had any issues with my full size 175mm other than user induced error.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> FallLine R XC is in preproduction and weighs 385 installed. I haven't had any issues with my full size 175mm other than user induced error.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Yeah. See my edited post. The 125mm version would be amazing.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## splitendz (Nov 13, 2015)

tuckerjt07 said:


> FallLine R XC is in preproduction and weighs 385 installed. I haven't had any issues with my full size 175mm other than user induced error.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


... problem is, it's been in pre-production for 2+ years. Was supposed to be available in Fall of 2017; now slated to appear 'winter 2018'


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I have a feeling this has to do more with them running at capacity on there current production. Spending the time to get new products developed when you can't make enough of your current ones, makes it a low priority.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

A fun side benefit of droppers is that thousands of riders get to feel for themselves that an extra pound of seat post makes no difference at all.

I mean zero difference. Climbs are no harder, just no difference.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

One Pivot said:


> A fun side benefit of droppers is that thousands of riders get to feel for themselves that an extra pound of seat post makes no difference at all.
> 
> I mean zero difference. Climbs are no harder, just no difference.


There is a measurable difference but no the average person on the average bike will not feel it. An elite racer will lose fractions due to that pound and an extreme weight weenie build it would be noticeable.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nat said:


> They're totally worth their weight.


Aiding and abetting.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

One Pivot said:


> A fun side benefit of droppers is that thousands of riders get to feel for themselves that an extra pound of seat post makes no difference at all.
> 
> I mean zero difference. Climbs are no harder, just no difference.


Well, right now, that 1/2 to 1 pound makes up .2% to .4% of my total riding weight. So I totally notice that extra 3.6 seconds on the first 20 minute climb. Especially since I'm not racing and stop to session anything I don't clean.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

tuckerjt07 said:


> There is a measurable difference but no the average person on the average bike will not feel it. An elite racer will lose fractions due to that pound and an extreme weight weenie build it would be noticeable.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Do you have scientific data to back that up???


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

One Pivot said:


> A fun side benefit of droppers is that thousands of riders get to feel for themselves that an extra pound of seat post makes no difference at all.
> 
> I mean zero difference. Climbs are no harder, just no difference.


It isn't nothing, on a big climb, say an hour @ 10% grade pushing 230 watts 1 extra pound would add about 17 seconds. Not much to most people though and barely measurable on smaller (~10 minute) climbs.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Do you have scientific data to back that up???


Bike Calculator

Not what people notice though, perception can be weird.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> Bike Calculator
> 
> Not what people notice though, perception can be weird.


Thanks, I was just going to hit him with f=ma and let him stew on that for a bit.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Do you have scientific data to back that up???


Yes.

http://theclimbingcyclist.com/science-of-climbing-why-power-to-weight-ratios-matter/

One of the things that I always find strange is people asking "How do I get better at climbing?" when they've spent $10k on a 130mm bike that weighs 30lbs. Well, chop 15lbs off your ass, and take 5lbs off your bike, for starters.

It's pretty well known that climbing speed and watts/kg have a more or less linear relationship on "steep" grades until you start getting going e-bike + pro legs fast.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Aiding and abetting.


Guilty!


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## ElwoodT (Mar 13, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> Bike Calculator
> 
> Not what people notice though, perception can be weird.


Dude! I'm going to be wiked fast when I loose my baby fat!


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Thanks, I was just going to hit him with f=ma and let him stew on that for a bit.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Fallacy!!!!!


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Fallacy!!!!!











Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> Not what people notice though, perception can be weird.


Yup.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

tuckerjt07 said:


> View attachment 1178270
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Try a new one please.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Try a new one please.


I might need to. You don't seem to comprehend the one I've been using.

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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

tuckerjt07 said:


> I might need to. You don't seem to comprehend the one I've been using.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


So whatchoo got Mr NWA?


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

One Pivot said:


> A fun side benefit of droppers is that thousands of riders get to feel for themselves that an extra pound of seat post makes no difference at all.
> 
> I mean zero difference. Climbs are no harder, just no difference.


Could it be that having the seat at the right height (without having to stop to adjust it) makes up for the added weight?

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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

HacksawReynolds said:


> So whatchoo got Mr NWA?


Hacksack, I'm not sure I've seen you contribute anything positive in your posts yet. You ought to get a mtn bike and ride


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ElwoodT said:


> Dude! I'm going to be wiked fast when I loose my baby fat!


No doubt about it, if you get down below 200 I'm in trouble.


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## ElwoodT (Mar 13, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> No doubt about it, if you get down below 200 I'm in trouble.


you can't argue with science...


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

andytiedye said:


> Could it be that having the seat at the right height (without having to stop to adjust it) makes up for the added weight?
> 
> Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk


No... It's goofier than that!

Your day to day body weight variance is more than a pound. Even morning to night is more.

No one can seriously say they're slower on days they weigh a pound more. I think most of us probably pickup closer to 200g for the dropper, so it's not even a pound.

Having a few extra ounces of water before a ride weighs more than we gain with a dropper. Or slightly overfilling a CamelBak.

Simple physics equations only work if there's constants for force/work/watts etc. Humans can't do constants like that. We have fixed weight and wildly varying inputs of power. Even psychology and emotion plays a bigger role! I ride faster just putting on a stem I think is cool! There's no force equation for that though.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

One Pivot said:


> No... It's goofier than that!
> 
> Your day to day body weight variance is more than a pound. Even morning to night is more.
> 
> ...


If I'm 143lbs and riding a 22lb bike, I'm faster than 143lbs and 23lb bike.

If I'm 144lbs and on a 22lb bike, I'm faster than 144lbs on a 23lb bike.

My body weight fluctuations happen; I can control my bike weight.

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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

If someone snuck a pound weight into your seat tube at random, are you sure you'd notice?

I think weight up front where your arms have to fight it fatigue you quicker and slow you down more... But a post is about the least noticeable place to keep it.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

One Pivot said:


> If someone snuck a pound weight into your seat tube at random, are you sure you'd notice?
> 
> I think weight up front where your arms have to fight it fatigue you quicker and slow you down more... But a post is about the least noticeable place to keep it.


Notice? Maybe, maybe not.

But, at the same wattage, I'd be slower.

That's not really arguable, is it?

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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Le Duke said:


> Notice? Maybe, maybe not.
> 
> But, at the same wattage, I'd be slower.
> 
> That's not really arguable, is it?


What if the change in saddle position allowed you to maneuver the bike through technical terrain with more agility (or are you talking about hypothetical one pound non-functioning dead weight)?


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

One Pivot said:


> No... It's goofier than that!
> 
> Your day to day body weight variance is more than a pound. Even morning to night is more.
> 
> ...


Nailed it^^^^^^^


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Hacksack, I'm not sure I've seen you contribute anything positive in your posts yet. You ought to get a mtn bike and ride


Dig a lil deeper there Hoss. But if yer referring to just the topic of droppah posts, then yeah not not so much. Just some gentle ribbing lol.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ElwoodT said:


> you can't argue with science...


You know I thought the same thing but on forums apparently you can.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

andytiedye said:


> Could it be that having the seat at the right height (without having to stop to adjust it) makes up for the added weight?


That idea holds true in my case. My main goal is not to go as fast as possible (or even faster than the next guy). For a racer, that's important. For me, not so much. I want to ride as fun of a line as possible, progressing to more challenging terrain features. The clock doesn't matter.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Nat said:


> What if the change in saddle position allowed you to maneuver the bike through technical terrain with more agility (or are you talking about hypothetical one pound non-functioning dead weight)?


The only time I've ever had my seat lowered on a climb is if I think I might need to get off the bike in a hurry and might have trouble getting back on. An example of this might be the Zen climb in St. George. One little section where you definitely need the ability to put a foot down quickly if you get just a little bit off line...or you're falling off a cliff.

Another fairly common climb: Hymasa. It's not the most technical climb in the world, but a good example of a technical-ish climb. I rarely stand while climbing, and didn't need to drop my seat or get out of the saddle there.

Again, I DO use a dropper seatpost. But, yes, it is dead weight on a climb, for ME. On a descent it more than makes up the minuscule difference in climbing speed.


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

While it’s not wheel and drivetrain weight we’re talking about here ( ie rotational mass that must be energized), the additional weight 200-400g is as real as if were from a bar, seat stem, shifters, calipers, etc, which are each relatively light things in the first place. However several of those compliments combined might not weigh what a dropper weighs. Imagine how hot a seller zero gram calipers and seats might be?


Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

The beauty of the the rigid post other than the weight is its something that you never have to think about. Set it and forget it. For some of us that have been riding/racing for decades in all kinds of terrain, the rigid post has never been in the way. And yes I've spent some time riding with the droppah.

Less moving parts, less to fail the better, IMO.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

HacksawReynolds said:


> The beauty of the the rigid post other than the weight is its something that you never have to think about. Set it and forget it. For some of us that have been riding/racing for decades in all kinds of terrain, the rigid post has never been in the way. And yes I've spent some time riding with the droppah.
> 
> Less moving parts, less to fail the better, IMO.


Omg now I have to agree with you on something. I too have given the dropper post an honest try. Several rides in fact. After everyone telling me how much it will improve my riding abilities I just can't get use to it at all. Feels so awkward when I can't feel it between my legs. The seat is my connection to the bike when things get technical. I don't ride clipped in either. Just not my style. So Hacksaw, we must be twins separated at birth


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

For me it was about a 280g difference. I dont run light weight posts and my dropper is a basic mechanical.

And people worried about weight, how many mentioning that could afford to drink a couple less beers to make up for it? Lol, ffs I could afford to loose a lot more than the extra weight of a dropper will ever make a difference. No to mention a pound added to a bike, 99.9% of us would have no clue if you didnt tell is the weight was higher.

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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Le Duke said:


> The only time I've ever had my seat lowered on a climb is if I think I might need to get off the bike in a hurry and might have trouble getting back on. An example of this might be the Zen climb in St. George. One little section where you definitely need the ability to put a foot down quickly if you get just a little bit off line...or you're falling off a cliff.
> 
> Another fairly common climb: Hymasa. It's not the most technical climb in the world, but a good example of a technical-ish climb. I rarely stand while climbing, and didn't need to drop my seat or get out of the saddle there.
> 
> Again, I DO use a dropper seatpost. But, yes, it is dead weight on a climb, for ME. On a descent it more than makes up the minuscule difference in climbing speed.


Cool. I don't know Zen but I'm familiar with Hymasa. I sometimes lower the saddle a touch (maybe 1cm.) on a technical climb when I anticipate needing to do some trials-ish moves such as a big step-up or log-over.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Omg now I have to agree with you on something. I too have given the dropper post an honest try. Several rides in fact. After everyone telling me how much it will improve my riding abilities I just can't get use to it at all. Feels so awkward when I can't feel it between my legs. The seat is my connection to the bike when things get technical. I don't ride clipped in either. Just not my style. So Hacksaw, we must be twins separated at birth


I went the rigid single speed route but sometimes having some moving parts improves the experience. In demanding terrain long travel full suspension with disc brakes and dropper posts adds to the fun (even if things do need more maintenance and break down sometimes). For pure simplicity and reliability traveling on foot beats biking but riding a bike is more fun, don't you think?

It took me a little while to stop relying on my thighs to control the bike by pinching the saddle. You have to think like a BMXer or downhiller. They control the heck out of the bike without using the saddle pinch.


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## splitendz (Nov 13, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> If I'm 143lbs and riding a 22lb bike, I'm faster than 143lbs and 23lb bike.
> 
> If I'm 144lbs and on a 22lb bike, I'm faster than 144lbs on a 23lb bike.
> 
> ...


Le Duke has it right. You will almost always be faster on climbs with a lighter bike; and yes, as little as 1lb can make a difference. I see bigger result differences with bike weight changes than I do with body weight changes. Sure you can drink a pound of water before a ride, but that's not a constant weight, and that's not unsprung weight. I like my bikes around 23lbs. Add a dropper, 24lbs.. heavier seat, 25lbs...heavier tires, now you're up to 27lbs. Can I tell the difference in a 23lb and a 27lb bike...
Big time. And I will be way slower on that 27lb bike than I would be if I gained those 4lbs on my body.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Nat said:


> I went the rigid single speed route but sometimes having some moving parts improves the experience. In demanding terrain long travel full suspension with disc brakes and dropper posts adds to the fun (even if things do need more maintenance and break down sometimes). For pure simplicity and reliability traveling on foot beats biking but riding a bike is more fun, don't you think?
> 
> It took me a little while to stop relying on my thighs to control the bike by pinching the saddle. You have to think like a BMXer or downhiller. They control the heck out of the bike without using the saddle pinch.


I guess it's more of a comfort thing for me. Hard to put it into words really. I don't necessarily pinch the seat between my legs but just to feel it touch either leg at different times while going downhill just feels right. But I understand totally what your saying. I just couldn't adapt to the dropper. I was slower, more awkward, and not near as confident with it dropped out of the way


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

splitendz said:


> Big time. And I will be way slower on that 27lb bike than I would be if I gained those 4lbs on my body.


I guess it depends what you mean by way slower, 4 pound is a pretty big difference at a highly competitive level but doubtfully would be measurable on a casual group ride. If I were blindfolded (ha, ha) I don't think I could tell if I were running with full or empty water bottles.

I think science says that 4 pounds on the bike is the same as 4 pounds on the body (rotating weight excluded) but I could be mistaken.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> I guess it depends what you mean by way slower, 4 pound is a pretty big difference at a highly competitive level but doubtfully would be measurable on a casual group ride. If I were blindfolded (ha, ha) I don't think I could tell if I were running with full or empty water bottles.
> 
> I think science says that 4 pounds on the bike is the same as 4 pounds on the body (rotating weight excluded) but I could be mistaken.


Yes and no on being the same. From a pure power output, as long as it is sprung weight, they should be extremely similar. Rotating, unsprung, and other weights all effect things differently. A heavier bike would lower the center of gravity but also make it "harder" to maneuver the bike. A heavier rider raises the center of gravity but does not effect maneuverability as much due to that mass being directly controlled.

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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

For a casual rider, 1/2-1lb isn't going to matter much. But for a Cat 1 XC racer (Le Duke?), it matters. If somebody can shave 17 seconds an hour by saving a pound, that's fairly significant. At that level, i's really hard to save that much time on downhills on XC courses, unless you are a terrible descender to begin with. But how many of those exist in Cat 1?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

midwestmtb said:


> For a casual rider, 1/2-1lb isn't going to matter much. But for a Cat 1 XC racer (Le Duke?), it matters. If somebody can shave 17 seconds an hour by saving a pound, that's fairly significant. At that level, i's really hard to save that much time on downhills on XC courses, unless you are a terrible descender to begin with. But how many of those exist in Cat 1?


The example I gave was fairly extreme, an hour climb @10% grade is a pretty severe test. I would think that on a similar decent 17 seconds would be pretty easy to lose or gain.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> The example I gave was fairly extreme, an hour climb @10% grade is a pretty severe test. I would think that on a similar decent 17 seconds would be pretty easy to lose or gain.


There is a five minute descent near me with berms, jumps etc. The kind of descent that is perfect for a dropper post and far rowdier than what you see in a typical XC trail. When I go balls out vs just going "fast" I managed to cut a whopping 12 seconds. I am a good but not professional level descender. That gap shrinks even more for CAT 1 XC racers.

In World Cup XC, you are starting to see a few guys running droppers but most don't. It's not at all that clear cut whether they are beneficial. We are talking about people who don't think twice about incorporating various minutiae like titanium bolts, etc if it gives them an edge. So it's not like they are carelessly omitting droppers.

Update: I should mention that I am not anti-droppers. I would not buy a trail or enduro bike without one. And if I do park riding, I would not omit one. But I think for people like Le Duke who are racing XC at a pretty high level, I think the weight tradeoff vs benefit is real and doesn't have a clear answer.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Omg now I have to agree with you on something. I too have given the dropper post an honest try. Several rides in fact. After everyone telling me how much it will improve my riding abilities I just can't get use to it at all. Feels so awkward when I can't feel it between my legs. The seat is my connection to the bike when things get technical. I don't ride clipped in either. Just not my style. So Hacksaw, we must be twins separated at birth


Could be!!!🤗


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Have we gotten to 'if you like them use them' yet?


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

TheDwayyo said:


> Have we gotten to 'if you like them use them' yet?


We're only 9 pages in, what's the rush?


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## scaryfast (Apr 23, 2004)

Depending on where you live and the trails you have access to, a dropper post may not be necessary. Luckily on the west coast, we have the features that make it ideal to have a dropper post. Riding through chunk, drops/jumps, and tight corners, a lower seat positioning that allows for you to position the bike under you to lean your bike lower or being able to lower your body's center of gravity is very important IMO. We also have trails that don't warrant the need for a dropper. I don't have one on my 29er xc hardtail. It all boils down to what trails you ride regularly.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

You can still lower your seat without a dropper. It's just annoying to stop and move it.


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## sapva (Feb 20, 2017)

andytiedye said:


> Could it be that having the seat at the right height (without having to stop to adjust it) makes up for the added weight?


For me an extra 400 grams for the dropper is nothing, adding a small cooler stocked with beer would still be a worthy trade off on a warm day, and hardly noticeable. So I think maybe yes.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

So I appear to be using my light remote like a dropper remote. I swear the remote on the light is the best thing since sliced cheese, when you are climbing, you turn the bike-mounted headlight down, or even off (relying on the helmet one), and on the gnar downhills, turn it on the bright 3000 lumen setting, I almost feel if it was connected to a dropper remote it might function perfect, the faster you go, the more light you need to see what's coming.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

^ So now we'll all be on single speeds so we have room for our dropper remotes and our light remotes.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Jayem said:


> So I appear to be using my light remote like a dropper remote. I swear the remote on the light is the best thing since sliced cheese, when you are climbing, you turn the bike-mounted headlight down, or even off (relying on the helmet one), and on the gnar downhills, turn it on the bright 3000 lumen setting, I almost feel if it was connected to a dropper remote it might function perfect, the faster you go, the more light you need to see what's coming.


you need one of the garmin lights that get brighter the faster you go... (apparently)


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

for those people that corner by leveraging on the seat that is literally the wrong way of doing it since you are not able to tip the bike over as far with out tipping your body.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

BushwackerinPA said:


> for those people that corner by leveraging on the seat that is literally the wrong way of doing it since you are not able to tip the bike over as far with out tipping your body.


Disagree. In everyday, ripping singletrack, my post is all the way up, and my foot position, relative to that of making pow turns on fat skis (inside foot forward, maybe a tick upward, but still forward) puts that leg in the perfect position to leverage my inner thigh on the seat for feedback, while me hips are facing the turn, my ass is to the outside if the bike, and I could 'literally' lay the bike on its side if I felt like it. Whilst, mind you, having utter control to rail every and any turn.

The bike leans, my body doesn't need to.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

yeah your are talking to former IFSA freeskier and current PSIA ski examiner IE I coach other coachs how to coach and how to ski.

biking and skiing turn are nt that similar. Only similarity is balance on the outside foot.....there is more but in skiing it varies with snow conditions...

in biking hips face turn, in skiing hips go against the legs

in skiing legs twist and tip from the femur to the pelvis, where as on bike its a whole body endeavor.

BTW my fattest skis are 122mm underfoot


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> Disagree. In everyday, ripping singletrack, my post is all the way up, and my foot position, relative to that of making pow turns on fat skis (inside foot forward, maybe a tick upward, but still forward) puts that leg in the perfect position to leverage my inner thigh on the seat for feedback, while me hips are facing the turn, my ass is to the outside if the bike, and I could 'literally' lay the bike on its side if I felt like it. Whilst, mind you, having utter control to rail every and any turn.
> 
> The bike leans, my body doesn't need to.


Exactly.

In this video that's been posted here 1000s of times as a good 'how to corner' tutorial (and that's just by one member!), you can clearly see this method in action. But hey, what does this guy know about it, right? :skep:


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Exactly.
> 
> In this video that's been posted here 1000s of times as a good 'how to corner' tutorial (and that's just by one member!), you can clearly see this method in action. But hey, what does this guy know about it, right? :skep:


Yessir Slap! I know when my body language on the bike got to the point that I describe, my turning skyrocketed, and I wasn't bad before.

I'm planted, the bike can break traction and I'm in control.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

that is actually the opposite of what I am talking about, Fabien can be described as the bike pushing into you.

IE saddles goes left hits left thigh. 

What I am describing is when people leverage the bike over 

IE right thigh pushed left into saddle and tips bike to left.


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## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Feels so awkward when I can't feel it between my legs.


I would agree


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

BushwackerinPA said:


> yeah your are talking to former IFSA freeskier and current PSIA ski examiner IE I coach other coachs how to coach and how to ski.
> 
> biking and skiing turn are nt that similar. Only similarity is balance on the outside foot.....there is more but in skiing it varies with snow conditions...
> 
> ...


Thanks for laying out your impressive list of credentials.

I don't even ski, I snowboard, and really damned well mind you, but the point of me using skiing foot placement as an analogy was to paint the visual picture. Because it's what I'm doing, and it works and it takes your claim that 'someone that isn't doing what you say is wrong', and it throws a massive wrench in that claim.

Let's not get into a credential laden clout match. Obviously skiing and biking are different, but in the spirit of what I was trying to convey, they are similar.

I don't even know why I bothered responding to this thread in the first place. I was in an email I rarely use, where the notifications go for this site, and read your claim of people doing things wrong, and thought what a load. Had to chime in.

I'm going to go out now and do what you say can't be done without a dropper.

Go out and ride bud.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

you should know that inside foot being forward in skiing is due to how the body moves and is more of a consequence than a goal. 

I would love to see some video of you riding a pump track with your saddle up high. Unless you have pancake flat and straight trails you are doing pump track type moves all the time. Do you have any third person video of you riding?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Still pounding your chest about the fundamentals of skiing when skiing was used as a simple analogy. Pretty telling. Take a step back. 

What does turning have to do with pumping on a pump track?? If I didn't know any better, your ego is getting the better if you and your jumping to another claim to try to prove your previous one. It's very unbecoming. 

And the trails I ride at 10'500 (starting) are a bit of everything. Rocky, maybe buff and floating on pine needles, maybe hero dirt. Often pretty dry though. Always pretty twisty and plenty of undulation. That said, I hail from the East and it was plenty rocky where I was there. Plenty of opportunity to pump in both regions. Ones ass doesn't need to chirp the back tire in order to pump. 

And since you're throwing it out there, I'll say this...I can roast a pump track. Before those trendy things became all the rave for folks of your ilk, I was building and jumping dirt jumps that would make you soil your egotistical shorts on a BMX bike. I have family back in Pa. still. I'll bet you a trip to Japan Pow that I'll rip the living **** out of you on your bike of choice, while I ride my hardtail...with it's seat up. Not my bike of choice for it, but I'm sure I can make you look like the ass your screen name sounds like. 

You let me know. 

I don't have vid of myself in third person, sorry. I'm too busy riding.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Oh, and your 122's underfoot....how often are you using them in Pa? Or are you one of those guys that sidles up in the lift line with an air if arrogance and fatties...on a packed pow day?

Good thing I've already had my coffee induced movement, because I might have soiled myself laughing at this exchange.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

jochribs said:


> Still pounding your chest about the fundamentals of skiing when skiing was used as a simple analogy. Pretty telling. Take a step back.
> 
> What does turning have to do with pumping on a pump track?? If I didn't know any better, your ego is getting the better if you and your jumping to another claim to try to prove your previous one. It's very unbecoming.
> 
> ...











Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)




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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

BushwackerinPA said:


> yeah your are talking to former IFSA freeskier and current PSIA ski examiner IE I coach other coachs how to coach and how to ski.


Oh...so it's a montage?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> Still pounding your chest about the fundamentals of skiing when skiing was used as a simple analogy. Pretty telling. Take a step back.
> 
> What does turning have to do with pumping on a pump track?? If I didn't know any better, your ego is getting the better if you and your jumping to another claim to try to prove your previous one. It's very unbecoming.
> 
> ...


"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jochribs again."


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Exactly.
> 
> In this video that's been posted here 1000s of times as a good 'how to corner' tutorial (and that's just by one member!), you can clearly see this method in action. But hey, what does this guy know about it, right? :skep:


With all due respect, you have both misinterpreted this video. FB is NOT leveraging the inside of his (outside) thigh against the seat, he is leveraging the inside of the (outside) knee against the frame. In fact, in a left turn for example, the right KNEE is against the frame and the left back of the leg behind the knee is actually over the saddle. This is REALLY obvious at time 2:58 through 3:02. This is much easier to accomplish with the seat down.

This allows you to angulate lower - at the knee as opposed to at the hip and also allows you to rotate your torso more into the turn.

You can see this at times 1:18, 1:35, 1:52, 2:28 and again, at 2:58 through 3:02 it's REALLY obvious! His seat is down, BTW. At 1:42, he explains the technique. Watch it again.

You can also see this at times 2:39 and 2:55 on GMBN's guide:





If there is a video anywhere suggesting that the thigh against the seat, extended, is a great method, I'd be interested in how they make that argument!

To put it into ski terms, seat up turning is like old style hip flexing - such as Stein Erickson would have done in the day. You can get much more bike (or ski) angulation - and more quickly - by driving the knees, as in skiing.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> that is actually the opposite of what I am talking about, Fabien can be described as the bike pushing into you.
> 
> IE saddles goes left hits left thigh.
> 
> ...


You didn't make this clear, you just said leveraging the seat is wrong.

Which is obviously untrue, yes?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

slapheadmofo said:


> "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jochribs again."


I already got him.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

jochribs said:


> Oh, and your 122's underfoot....how often are you using them in Pa? Or are you one of those guys that sidles up in the lift line with an air if arrogance and fatties...on a packed pow day?
> 
> Good thing I've already had my coffee induced movement, because I might have soiled myself laughing at this exchange.


I am not in PA.....I am in Vermont(350 inches of snow a year) did that video look like PA? I have 2 bikes...but I think 15 pairs of skis, so no I dont take my reverse sidecut skis out on packed powder days I take a 80-93mm ski depending on how I am feeling. If its really hard I take my FIS SLor GS skis out depending on how crowded things are.

I Dont have the money for japan trip. So what do you get if I lose?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

BushwackerinPA said:


> I am not in PA.....I am in Vermont(350 inches of snow a year) did that video look like PA? I have 2 bikes...but I think 15 pairs of skis, so no I dont take my reverse sidecut skis out on packed powder days I take a 80-93mm ski depending on how I am feeling. If its really hard I take my FIS SLor GS skis out depending on how crowded things are.
> 
> I Dont have the money for japan trip. So what do you get if I lose?


Blah, blah, blah.

You Necro a thread from January of 2018 to come and pound your chest. Then when disagreed with, you start getting specific about skiing, throwing out your 'former' accolades as if they have **** to do with apple butter. I just don't know what to say to you at this point.

A saying has continually come to mind regarding that...

Those who cant...Teach, or generally act as authorities on subjects in regards to others.

The rest of us just friggin do it. (To folks that are reading this and are teachers/coaches etc, please don't take offense, it's not a blanket statement)

I'm no stranger to folks like you. I've been riding water in it's various forms since the 80's, bikes of all sorts since that same time. My son has been in the comp scene and sponsored as a snowboarder by a major company since he was FIVE. He's 11 now. Egotist bigmouths like you who are in actuality probably a stone's throw from tying a duncan loop neck tie (I flyfish too, learned from Lee Wulff when I was 12) are a dime a friggin dozen in these sports that require funds. And frankly you make me sick.

And you lay out your quiver now?

Yeah, I remember you now. From PA, moved to VT, proceeded to piss people off there. Can't keep your effing mouth shut.

Now you're necroing posts from a year and a half ago.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

I must also spread reputation around before giving it to Slaphead and Dirtjunkie again 



You guys are the best!


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## froze (Feb 5, 2011)

All I know is that I like to ride my bike.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Hey what do you want if you win? You just said if I win I get a Japan pow trip, which I personally would love.

I necrod the post to troll, well if you feel for the troll....

I teach because it pays 40+ an hour plus tip to do what I love, I make more money than 95 percent of "pro" skiers now.

I still stand by my first statement that you should not leverage bike with your thigh, but the bike can be leveraged into your thigh. Thats is literally what I said.

Great for your son, the reason why people I post my "Cred" was because most people do nt know **** for skiing.....even those that are good generally do not understand the mechanics. and yeah it way to get people to shut up about skiing.

So again you said you could rip **** harder than me with no dropper. Quite the statement. Well if you want to make it over to vermont I ride with ya assuming I am not injured and have time. I honestly doubt you could. If you do not want to ride with me, there are some strava segments you can come beat but I rarely chase KOMs anymore because well I run a farm.

This is probably the hardest KOM I have. BTW I was on SS hardtail..but yes it did have a dropper because kimmers is much faster and safer with a dropped seat.

https://www.strava.com/activities/75021943/segments/1490375765

I say come beat it, same goes for you slapdickmofo. If you guys are such a great riders my KOMs should be easy to beat, since obviously I suck and you guys can ride so well.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

bushwackerinpa said:


> my koms


lol!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> I must also spread reputation around before giving it to Slaphead and Dirtjunkie again
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are the best!


Group hug suckas.


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## austink26 (Jun 24, 2019)

Would a ski bike be faster with a dropper or not? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## render ranger (Aug 22, 2019)

BushwackerinPA said:


> This is probably the hardest KOM I have. BTW I was on SS hardtail..but yes it did have a dropper because kimmers is much faster and safer with a dropped seat.
> 
> https://www.strava.com/activities/75021943/segments/1490375765
> 
> I say come beat it, same goes for you slapdickmofo. If you guys are such a great riders my KOMs should be easy to beat, since obviously I suck and you guys can ride so well.


NARRATOR: There was no KOM on his Strava activity.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)




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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

shekky said:


> View attachment 1282983


^ some rep for you sir. Spot on!


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

*OneSpeed* said:


> ^ some rep for you sir. Spot on!


^gratefully accepted.

i had a very good ride today...


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

shekky said:


> ^gratefully accepted.
> 
> *i had a very good ride today...*


Lol! Me too, even with ONLY 210mm of drop...


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

^^Excellent post!

I'd +rep you if I could!


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

I'm new here. Can somebody point me to a good skiing forum to teach me about mountain bike riding.

I like the idea of cross-discipline activity, like learning how to ski on a mountain bike site.

Having so much crossover knowledge will make me KOM my bicycle down a ski slope in 18" of fresh POW. 

How much air pressure do I need in my tires for fastest time through the snow?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I see we’ve got two practicing the buddy system.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

*OneSpeed* said:


>


My god!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nat said:


> My god!


Maybe a bit more info.

A] My God that's a sweet bike.
Or.
B] My God that's a lot of exposed seat post.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Forest Rider said:


> I'm new here. Can somebody point me to a good skiing forum to teach me about mountain bike riding.
> 
> I like the idea of cross-discipline activity, like learning how to ski on a mountain bike site.
> 
> ...


Good question. 









Ask this guy:


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Let's do this.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Maybe a bit more info.
> 
> A] My God that's a sweet bike.
> Or.
> B] My God that's a lot of exposed seat post.












My god that lawn needs fertilizer.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nat said:


> My god that lawn needs fertilizer.


:lol::lol:


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Maybe a bit more info.
> 
> A] My God that's a sweet bike.
> Or.
> B] My God that's a lot of exposed seat post.


Frames are now sized with droppers in mind....why do you need a longer seat tube when you can have 21cm of dropper post?


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> I necrod the post to troll,


So you admit you are trolling..... well done sir. Thread closed. if you do it again expect the ban hammer.


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