# Propain bikes -> Frechdax 16"/20" full suspension for kids



## CaRaBeeN (Mar 24, 2012)

https://www.propain-bikes.com/en/shop/Kids+bike+with+16+FRECHDAX-46/

I just came across with this German brand. Looks as alternative to Lil'Shredder


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## Patrick Green (Jan 4, 2015)

Very nice


iPad


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## kheaton (Feb 20, 2015)

I just received an email from the today, they will sale frame and rear shock for 800 euros.


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## dc40 (Oct 4, 2013)

I don't think they ship to the US.


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## kheaton (Feb 20, 2015)

They may ship to the US but without insurance. Below is the reply from them.


"Hi KEn,

we didn`t shipp to the US because we find no insurance for the us market witch will be payabl.

The frame of the frechdax is possible it will be 800€



Mit sportlichen Grüßen

David Assfalg

Propain Bicycles GmbH
Ravensburgerstr. 13
88214 Ravensburg

Tel.: +49 (0) 751 - 20 18 02 - 13"


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## dc40 (Oct 4, 2013)

thanks for the info.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Just check the details before you commit.
The spec details that the frame can be run with two sizes of wheel making upgrade in size easy.
However what isnt clear from web site is that to make the change you need to buy a new rear triangle.
I couldnt find the cost or availability in the uk which is what put me off when i looked at this bike last year.
Not saying its not a good bike, but just check on the above. It may have changed if not then you will need to factor it in.


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## phatfreeheeler (Mar 3, 2005)

I’ve been going back and forth on this, but I'm currently discussing purchasing one of these bikes from David there at Propain and shipping it to the US. BTW - I’m pretty sure the rear triangle has two sets of 12mm axle holes, disc brake holes, and rear derailleur hanger holes. All the reviews show them. One set is for 16" and one set for 20". If I find out otherwise, I'll update. Fingers crossed this all works out as I hope it will. I'm actually leaning toward starting with 16" wheels, for a soon to be 6 year old. By the numbers, he fits an 18" bike like I fit 650b. He won't ride his BMX mini w/20” because the high BB makes it so he must pedal standing up, but he rips on his 16" Hotrock with the tires at <10psi. He’s ridden 10 miles of dirt in a single day with a single speed and coaster brake. He either walks the steeper hills or I pull him with a tether. However, he hasn’t been jumping as big lately cause the harsh landings started hurting more than they were worth, and I see him riding slower through rocks now and shaking out his hands a lot. He may actually be riding faster overall, so I just see the sudden slowdowns before rocks. I kinda wonder if 3-4 months on a 16”with good full suspension might up his game more than being on the awkward side with the jump to a 20” bike. I really like how these bikes use really small cranks and lower BB than the Commencal or most other brands and Commencal putting the rear pivot around the BB works for single speed, but only hurts how a kid will mash the pedals anyways. Probably fine for gravity use, but not as trail friendly.

I have thought about going hardtail, but here’s why I’m leaning away from it (totally understand if you think I’m crazy)…

•	Only convertible 16”-20” hardtail is the Lil Shredder which is just as expensive as this bike
•	Back in 1999, full suspension sure did more for my riding enjoyment than any other change to the sport since then. Ok, dropper seatposts were nice too, along with slack and low geo 
•	So if I’m gonna end up buying him a 20” full suspension in 2 years, why not get it now and get more years of use out of it
•	As a former suspension engineer I hate how a hardtail corners unless you run the fork STIFF like my dirt jumper
•	If it really doesn’t work out there is probably some other foolish dad who just wants to shuttle with his kids and would love this bike 2nd hand

I’m looking to buy everything to convert it to 20” right away, so when he is ready I can just make the switch. Then, when my now 3 year old is ready for the 16" setup, she gets it and we start over. I could see getting 5-6 years of use out of this bike that way. That's about how long I keep my own bikes, but I spend a whole lot more on mine, not to mention maintenance costs. Heck, it'll probably go through a couple drive trains in that amount of time too, so it will definitely make financial sense to start down this road sooner, rather than later. If he becomes a ski racer, biking will be his cheap sport after all.

If anyone has any new information about the Propain, I’d love to hear it.


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## kheaton (Feb 20, 2015)

Just received an email from David at Propain. Shipping a Frechdax 2 to Augusta, GA is only 89 euros. Not sure on insurance though.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

For an almost 6yo go straight to the 20" wheels. My 6yo sons 20" BMX has a taller BB than his Lil Shredder 20.


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## phatfreeheeler (Mar 3, 2005)

Thanks kheaton and Scott. Ready to pull the trigger as soon as David gets back to me. Going 20" and figure and can build custom 18" wheel(s) if he really has an issue. Any thought on the MRP/white bros fork versus the Spinner air. Leaning toward the 3 just to go all out but then it's close to lil shredder pricing.


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## phatfreeheeler (Mar 3, 2005)

The website now shows updated specs. Both the 2 and 3 have Propain branded forks now and pricing shifted slightly. The color Red is gone and replaced with Orange, which while cool, the red was the kids preference. Minor, but just waiting for confirmation from David to place an order hopefully in the next week.


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## kheaton (Feb 20, 2015)

I noticed the new specs as well. If you get it let us know what you think about it. I was ready to place an order and a Lil' Shredder became available from a member here so I'm getting it instead of the Frechdax.


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## phatfreeheeler (Mar 3, 2005)

First impressions... STOKED!







...although he had to learn the hard way why I always tell him to wear his gloves 

This is a Frechdax 2 w/20" wheels. As Scott predicted, he grew enough while waiting for it to arrive that I haven't needed the 18" wheels I was building up. Oh well, maybe his sister will need them.

With tubes, and no pedals, it weighs in at 21 lbs 4 oz. The confidence difference and actual level of control was instantly obvious. The suspension is truly functional at his 60lb weight and I moved the shifter in so for now he's not using it as he adapts to the new ride.

More details to come


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## Mongrel (Jan 19, 2010)

Hi,

Cool photo! He looks fully stoked. 

Hard to tell but it looks like your son has a good 6"or so of stand over height? Does that mean a lot smaller kid could run with a 20" Frechdax, maybe with the shorter (95mm) cranks? What do you think?

I have two nearly 4 year olds (twins so things are going to get expensive) who are currently rocking around on 16" bikes. Like your son, they complain about sore hands and have problems braking when we are out on trails so I'm looking at getting them a fully. Given I need two, I am aiming on skipping the 16" stage . Frechdax would be my pick as the Commencal supreme forks are rubbish and Lil Shredder is too expensive (I'm in Switzerland so Propain is also effectively around the corner). 

Any thoughts? (I'll of course ask Propain for their advice as well but its always best to ask the end user for a straight up answer)

Many thanks!


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## phatfreeheeler (Mar 3, 2005)

I'd have a hard time picturing a 4 year old on this bike with 20" wheels. My boy is 124cm tall for comparison with a 53cm inseam he has ~3cm of standover. The picture is deceiving. On the other hand my 4 year old daughter is only 104cm and there is no way she can ride this bike yet. I would also be dishonest if I said my boy was already getting the most out of a full suspension like this. It's improving his confidence, but currently his skills do not require full suspension, just front suspension and good brakes. I'm hoping by the end of this season we see a big step forward, but who knows. So you know, his first lift served ride still caused a bit of hand pain... due to braking so much cause he was nervous. Still a big step forward.

If I lived in Switzerland I would for sure look at the Frechdax. Cool bike and cool company. That said, a 16" bike fits most 4 year olds properly. My question with the 16" Frechdax would be about REACH. The height would be good, but it might be a long reach. David and Robert could answer that for you.

Since you are buying at such a young age I would also look at 16" hardtails with good hand breaks. That could tide you over for less money till they are really ready for the 20" Frechdax.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

My son is 4.5 and I would love to get him a Frechdax. I would definitely get the 16" though. He does ride a 20" Scott Voltage for long non-technical rides - it is far too big for him but really increases the distance we can cover. 

I wish there was such a thing as 16" hardtails with good brakes (apart from Lil Shredder!)


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## Mongrel (Jan 19, 2010)

Hi phatfreeheeler,

Thanks for that! Especially your son's measurements that I can use as a comparison.

Same old story I guess... Dad thinking to himself the quicker I get them rocking trails the quicker I can get them to the bike parks = more riding for everyone. Like many, I need to slow down a bit  On the up side I've just found out the manager of my LBS purchased a Frechdax for his son, so I'll arrange a viewing and go from there.

I wouldn't look at another 16". They are doing great on their Early Rider Belter's so I'll bide my time for now and reap the rewards of our money in the bank earning a whooping 0.8% :madman:. 
The fully option will start off with Mum and Dad towing them up the local hill and them free coasting down so pedaling is not my first concern. Safety is and they need to be able to brake well and get off the bike fairly easily.... all whilst having a ton of fun! Thanks for mentioning reach... another important point to consider.

Happy trails!


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## phatfreeheeler (Mar 3, 2005)

The getting off the bike quickly is the biggest reason I'm a proponent of keeping bikes close to adult proportions. We took a 7 year old out with us on a local shuttle and his bike was too big... he must have crashed 50 times in those 5 miles and they were hard crashes. I was impressed with the kids toughness but we won't take him again with that bike. That said, he can safely ride that bike on paved and mostly flat bike paths, but for dirt smaller is safer.


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## Mongrel (Jan 19, 2010)

*Oh no.. what have I done!*

Button clicked, and in a moment of madness I have just ordered a couple of Frechdax 2's. :eekster:
We managed to get hold of one in a 16" set-up from the local shop owner and my boys fitted it really well. Both had a quick ride and other than nearly flying over the handlebars when braking, they really enjoyed it. The build looks solid, the stand over height is good and the brakes are awesome. The geo is 'stretched' but this is to be expected for a frame that will also accept 20" wheel. The reach is average when seated, but improves when in the 'attack' position and doesn't look like it will be an issue. The fork is going to offer limited function only for kids that weigh in at around the 16kg mark (35lbs). The minimum air pressure needed to stop the fork collapsing means the compression you can get in there will only give them probably half of what is available. The bigger they get, the better it will get.

Yes it's a ridiculous amount of money to spend on young kids bikes, but divide it out over the 5 - 6 years of riding they should get out of them and it starts looking more like money well spent. With my wife on board .. let's just hope the boys enthusiasm for biking stays strong. 
Photo's to follow :thumbsup:


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

I am so jealous! Your lucky boys! How tall are your twins? Interested to see how good the fit would be for my son.

Thanks


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## Mongrel (Jan 19, 2010)

Hi ProjectMayhem, the boys are 101cm (3'4") with an inside leg of around 43cm (1'5"). They'll be turning 4 next month. Cheers!


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Sounds perfect - mine is 103cm tall. He will be 5 in November. I saw my first (and only) Frechdax last year when my son was turning 4. It was a 20" version but even so the reach was humongous.

Sounds like it would be just right now...hmm is he going to be a lucky boy for his birthday...


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## Mongrel (Jan 19, 2010)

Reach is long, no two ways about it. My guys will be doing very little pedaling on the Frechdax so it'll be less of an issue as they were better centred when up off the seat.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Yeah mine spends most his time in the attack position so should also be ok. If we do get a Frechdax I am hoping the gears will help him pedal up the hills instead of being pushed...


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

PS Can't wait to see photos


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## Mongrel (Jan 19, 2010)

Order confirmation received so here are a few additional details on pricing that aren't clear on the website (for those interested):


A Frechdax 2 without tax sets you back 1.301,68 EUR (for non EU export country). This is slightly higher than the website listed price minus the 19% country tax, so it looks like they retain ca. 3% for admin.
 The 16" is delivered as a single speed, due to lack of ground clearance for the derailleur. 
 Getting the 20" rims costs you an additional 167,23 EUR. There is no mention of the gear conversion kit pricing so it is included in either the bike or the wheel pricing.
 There are two crank lengths available; 95 & 115mm. The 16" delivers with the 95mm, the 20" presumably with the 115mm. Ordering the longer cranks in addition (including chain ring) will set you back 83,19 EUR
 A custom paint job (in RAL colours) will cost you 192,44 EUR. You pay around 30 EUR for one of their standard colours (green or orange) so you're effectively looking at 160 EUR more.
 The website stated 15 day lead-time is well 'under cooked'. Stated lead-time is 40 days from payment.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Great info there, thanks. Disappointed about the lack of derailleur, really needing gears here to tackle the hills.


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## phatfreeheeler (Mar 3, 2005)

You could always add the derailleur and shifter... i think the hub still fits a cassette. I'm soon going to upgrade my sons to a 11-36 or even 42 so he can learn to sit and spin uphills. I'll be adding a longer post too so he can sit with full leg extension.

It is impressive how well the suspension works. My 60lb 6 year old needs it set at 10psi front and 45psi rear after a lot of adjustments. I had to increase that to 20f/60r for an 8 year old cousin. He ripped on the bike and kept telling me how smooth it felt on the jumps... however, when my kid got back on it was suddenly a pogo stick and he got bucked hard at high speed in an open field. Kids follow others, not trails ;-) His first bad crash... took almost a week to get back his mental game.


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## Mongrel (Jan 19, 2010)

I'm fine with single speed for now. My boys weigh 16kgs, the bike 10. something. They're not going to be getting far when things start going uphill 
Great to hear the sus is working well. It'll be a while before my little fellas are getting much out of it i suspect but it should match & grow with their skill level well.
Bummer about the big off. Hope your boy is back on top  I've been trying to prep my boys by showing them occaisional vids of guys crashing, followed by them doing awesome stuff. Everybody crashes... even the really good guys  Still waiting for the really big crash.., but i've got a couple of full faces on order as a precaution!
A quick correction to my earlier comment on lead time. The 40 days quoted was due to one of the bikes having a custom colour. The other with standard colour was quoted at 20 days. Propain have said they should be able to have both bikes to us in time for the boys birthday on the 25th of October. Can't wait! Happy trails!


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Sounds like a bad one, phat. 

My 4 year old is 17kg, really hope we can add the gears - we don't have uplift! The 20" Frechdax 2 is 9.8kg so the 16" must be a little lighter. His current bike is 7.something kg and singlespeed and he is getting really strong up the hills.

I need to think about ordering one soon for a birthday on 18th November...!


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## Mongrel (Jan 19, 2010)

*Frechdax Update*

Hi All,
It's been a while so time for an update. Bikes turned up about half a week after the boys birthday but they did try their best (the custom paint on one of the frames held things up). 
Bike are packed extremely well and everything was there, including the full 20" upgrade parts. They are well constructed and look solid. Never-the-less, 4 year olds have a tendency of ruining things and the scraps and scratches have begun.
The boys love their bikes. As mentioned earlier, the reach is somewhat large for them so it took a bit of getting used to. By getting used to, I mean they got on and rode away no problem, but just needed to readjust the cruise and attack positions. The real issue however was the disc brakes as they are killer compared to the v brakes they had previously. I had them outside on our driveway doing practice runs back and forth. They are starting to get them well under control but do give them a big pull now and again when they have to react quickly. A couple of big scares but no crashes to date.
As expected, they suffer getting them up hill as although light, they are still 4 kilos heavier than their old bikes. As a result, I popped up to the local pet shop and found 2 end of the line (no pun intended) dog lines,; each with a 5m cord and rated to 50kgs. My wife and I have rigged them to our bikes and the boys never looked back. We tow them up the big stuff very easily and it seems to be a great solution. 
Early days for now and with the onset of winter we won't have too many riding opportunities left, but we're off to a good start!


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## phatfreeheeler (Mar 3, 2005)

Nice...The 16" wheels look sooo small. The seatpost on the 20" is really short, definitely not meant for putting them in pedaling position at my kids 6 year old size.

I had a short 3" dropper post lying around collecting dust so I put it on the bike. Added 1/2 lb. It's a gravity dropper which takes a butt tap to activate along with the switch, so I thought he likely wouldn't be able to activate it himself. He stinks at shifting the rear derailleur, but he totally gets the seatpost. It's might be better than having gears as it gives him a more powerful position to pedal while resting a bit. I'm hot on the search for fatter tires though...something more in the 2.25" wide range.


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## angelo72 (Dec 6, 2015)

*Frechdax questions*

Thank you so much for the images and information. I have ordered the Frechdax 2 in green 20" and 16" set up. My grandson in 5 1/2yo and 50lbs. he races bmx on a Redline Proline Mini. Flonky notified me that my bike was complete and awaiting the customs paperwork in order to ship. Which leads me to my next question. How long did the shipping process take? Did it ship via DHL? I am trying to get it here in time for Xmas. It took me forever to find decent pedals in a weight and color I felt was acceptable. They sent me a picture of it being completed the other day as well.I am hopeful It will get here in time for Santa to deliver it. Am very excited to have him with me for next year's race season too.


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## Mongrel (Jan 19, 2010)

Hi Angelo72, that all depends on where you are. Shipping to Switzerland was no more than 1 week!
They are seriously cool bikes for the little ones. Had my boys out shredding stairs on them this morning 
Good luck!


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## phatfreeheeler (Mar 3, 2005)

Any tips from anyone who rebuild one of these 1st Ride air forks? Seems we’ve lost some travel so I’m thinking there must be a negative air chamber I need to do some seal work on.

The bike has been AWESOME overall, if I can rebuild the fork it’ll be back to as new for my daughter who has been riding it since 5.5 y/o. My boy graduated to 24” at 8 and this bike made him love mountain biking. He rips and has a tons of fun doing it.


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## Mongrel (Jan 19, 2010)

phatfreeheeler said:


> Hi Phatfreeheeler,
> I've not had to do it so no experience there sorry. I have just ordered a seal kit to do a basic service only. I'd be interested in your feedback if and when you pull them apart. Otherwise i'm sure a suspension service center will be able to help you out.
> Cheers, Ritchie


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