# Dinglespeed



## 1x9 vassago (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm a newbie, but what is a dinglespeed.


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## sunset1123 (Apr 28, 2009)

A dinglespeed is like that wannabe who is always hanging out with the cool kids... here's an example:



















All the disadvantages of a geared drivetrain, except maybe the weight and complexity of derailleurs and all the other shifty bits... definitely not cool or hip like a dedicated SS setup though.

There's a certain kind of coolness even amongst the dingle crowd that involves a couple chainrings and a couple cogs just a few teeth apart with the same tooth count. Gotta get there if you wanna be "in" with the "out" crowd.

Fortunately, with two quicklinks and an eccentric hub, this one can become just like the cool kids in a minute or so.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

That is not a dinglespeed, that is simply a two speed drivetrain using a tensioner. A true dinglespeed requires a double rear cog, does not use a tensioner and is used with a fixed gear drivetrain as described below.



> Dingle Cogs are part of a different concept for fixed-gear drivetrains. Having two cogs on the back means you have more options for gear changes when the conditions demand it. For instance, say you want to ride your off-road fixie from your house to the trailhead, but your gear combo is either too high for the dirt or too low for the road. With a 17/19t Dingle on the back, pick two chainrings that are 2 teeth apart, like a 44t and a 42t. When you change from the outer (44:17t) gear combo to the inner (42:19t), you'll have a much better off-road gear and your wheel position will not change. This maintains effective chainstay length so you won't have to worry about having too much or too little chain length to accommodate the gear change. The Dingle (the word derives from dual and single) works great in hilly terrain both on or off-road.


White Industries makes the freewheel Dos, which can either be used a freewheel Dinglespeed or a two speed drivetrain with a tensioner. Sorry sunset1123 but a dinglespeed is twice as cool as singlespeed.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

aka brad said:


> ... A true dinglespeed requires a double rear cog, does not use a tensioner and is used with a fixed gear drivetrain...
> ...


Wait a minute... you mean a dinglespeed -- which isn't a singlespeed -- is a fixed gear machine? Huh... didn't know that. 

--sParty


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## sunset1123 (Apr 28, 2009)

See? aka brad's the coolest.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

sunset1123 said:


> See? aka brad's the coolest.




BTW, the dinglespeed writeup is from the Surly website


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## sunset1123 (Apr 28, 2009)

One thing I'm curious about though... I don't think anyone would argue that a singlespeed bike that is using a tensioner is not a singlespeed... so why is a dual-speed bike that is using a tensioner not a dingle?

As far as fixies go, there is a historical precedent for them being multi-ratio bikes, most just flop the wheel around though. Never heard the word "dingle" used to describe a fixie, flip-flop or otherwise.

btw: the pic of the dingle drivetrain with "One God, One Gear" below it is classic, needs to be on one of those failblog internet memes.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

sunset1123 said:


> One thing I'm curious about though... I don't think anyone would argue that a singlespeed bike that is using a tensioner is not a singlespeed... so why is a dual-speed bike that is using a tensioner not a dingle?
> 
> As far as fixies go, there is a historical precedent for them being multi-ratio bikes, most just flop the wheel around though. Never heard the word "dingle" used to describe a fixie, flip-flop or otherwise.
> 
> btw: the pic of the dingle drivetrain with "One God, One Gear" below it is classic, needs to be on one of those failblog internet memes.


Asking these questions is like poking the annoying dragon, and it will provoke a response that reminds everyone that opinions are like *******s. I'd argue that SS has a historical precedent for multi ratio, or that dingling it is still SS, or... but then everyone gets butthurt and pushes their own opinion. No snuggling after, no sir, it is a real argument.

Just trying to nip this whole discussion in the bud here...

I do want to know if aka brad is religious in his slogan or not. From his posts, I'd assume he was Baha'i.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

It seems like a pretty simple thing. Does the bike have only one speed on it? Then it's a single speed. Does it have more than one speed (simple yes or no)? If it does, then it's not a single speed.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

bad mechanic said:


> It seems like a pretty simple thing. Does the bike have only one speed on it? Then it's a single speed. Does it have more than one speed (simple yes or no)? If it does, then it's not a single speed.


 Truth. The problem seems to come when the non-singlespeed owners (dinglers, whatever) feel that it's some kind of put down that their sled's description lies outside the exclusive term "singlespeed."

It's not a put down to own a bike that's not a singlespeed. It's just a different kind of bike, that's all.

--sParty


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

sunset1123 said:


> One thing I'm curious about though... I don't think anyone would argue that a singlespeed bike that is using a tensioner is not a singlespeed... so why is a dual-speed bike that is using a tensioner not a dingle?
> 
> As far as fixies go, there is a historical precedent for them being multi-ratio bikes, most just flop the wheel around though. Never heard the word "dingle" used to describe a fixie, flip-flop or otherwise.
> 
> btw: the pic of the dingle drivetrain with "One God, One Gear" below it is classic, needs to be on one of those failblog internet memes.


Huh? Where did you get the idea that a singlespeed using a tensioner is not a singlespeed? Perhaps you meant that a drivetrain with a tensioner and a choice of gears is not a singlespeed; that would seem to be self evident. The reason you never heard the word _dingle_ before is because it is a recent development by Surly, to allow two different gear ratios with a fixed gear, *without* using a flip/flop or otherwise (is there another method besides a flip/flop?) without significantly changing the chain length. Surly defined "dingle" in the above description and since they invented the concept they can call it what ever they wanted, which is why a dual-speed bike using a tensioner or a flip/flop hub not a dingle.

As far as the conflict between the Dingle speed and "One God One Gear," perhaps I need to develop a tringle speed to depict the trinity


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## markaitch (Feb 17, 2010)

aka brad said:


> Huh? Where did you get the idea that a singlespeed using a tensioner is not a singlespeed? Perhaps you meant that a drivetrain with a tensioner and a choice of gears is not a singlespeed; that would seem to be self evident. The reason you never heard the word _dingle_ before is because it is a recent development by Surly, to allow two different gear ratios with a fixed gear, *without* using a flip/flop or otherwise (is there another method besides a flip/flop?) without significantly changing the chain length. Surly defined "dingle" in the above description and since they invented the concept they can call it what ever they wanted, which is why a dual-speed bike using a tensioner or a flip/flop hub not a dingle.
> 
> As far as the conflict between the Dingle speed and "One God One Gear," perhaps I need to develop a tringle speed to depict the trinity





aka brad said:


> That is not a dinglespeed, that is simply a two speed drivetrain using a tensioner. A true dinglespeed requires a double rear cog, *does not use a tensioner* and is used with a fixed gear drivetrain as described below.


perhaps he got it from you & your incorrect definition of dinglespeed? if a dinglespeed can not use a tensioner, then by inference neither can a singlespeed, right?

surly did not invent the term dinglespeed...they just glommed onto it when they named their dinglecogs. by white industries' definition my double/double set-up is dinglespeed. but aka brad, you are telling me even though i only use it for the 2 different combos & without a tensioner, it must actually be...a quadringle?

i luv it...perhaps we can get another one of those epic threads arguing semantics going, ala the "what is the real definition of singlespeed (in this case a dinglespeed)? thread from a few months back :thumbsup:


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

markaitch said:


> perhaps he got it from you & your incorrect definition of dinglespeed? if a dinglespeed can not use a tensioner, then by inference neither can a singlespeed, right?
> 
> surly did not invent the term dinglespeed...they just glommed onto it when they named their dinglecogs. by white industries' definition my double/double set-up is dinglespeed. but aka brad, you are telling me even though i only use it for the 2 different combos & without a tensioner, it must actually be...a quadringle?
> 
> i luv it...perhaps we can get another one of those epic threads arguing semantics going, ala the "what is the real definition of singlespeed (in this case a dinglespeed)? thread from a few months back :thumbsup:


 What we have here is failure to communicate; much of it my fault.The Surly Dingle speed cog hit the market 2006-2007. Prior to that, some bikers used a single rear cog and two or three chainrings, or two or three cogs with a single chainring and some referred (and some still do) to these as dinglespeeds.The 2x2 dingle speed setup described by Surly using their dingle cog is in my opinin the most elegant solutions to a multi-gear fixed gear.Also a singlespeed can be have a fixed gear, but a fixed gear is not necessarily a singlespeed.Since you can not use a tensioner with a fixed gear and live very long, this should explain why you are half right; no you can't use a tensioner with a singlespeed if it is also a fixed gear, but you can use a tensioner with a singlespeed if it has a freewheel or hub.


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## markaitch (Feb 17, 2010)

aka brad...now you are tying yourself in knots & tripping over your own words
are you not aware that white ind has been offering their dos eno double freewheel since 2005 if not earlier? & that once upon a time way back then acs also offered a double fw?
whether its fixed cogs or freewheels does not decide if its dinglespeed...


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## raganwald (Mar 1, 2011)

My definition is the easiest to understand: if you can change gears without dismounting, it's not a singlespeed. If you have to stop and fool around with the wheel and/or chain, it's a singlespeed.

This simple definition explains why a dinglespeed is also a single speed, as is a flip-flop hub, but an internally geared rear hub is not a singlespeed and neither is an internally geared two speed front crank.

As for dinglespeed, I don't agree with Surly. Or at least, I have a broader definition. If when you stop and fool around with the wheel and/or chain you have two gear options, you have a dinglespeed. The Surly approach happens to be a very elegant way to achieve this.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

What is it about "single" that people don't get? If the bike has more than a *single* speed on it, it's not a *single* speed. How could it be any easier?


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

markaitch said:


> aka brad...now you are tying yourself in knots & tripping over your own words are you not aware that white ind has been offering their dos eno double freewheel since 2005 if not earlier? & that once upon a time way back then acs also offered a double fw? whether its fixed cogs or freewheels does not decide if its dinglespeed...


I guess I'm just showing my age. Freewheels have been around since the late 19 Century and with the advent of the derailleur the tooth count steadily went up to 8 I think. The idea that a two speed freewheel was anything other than a two speed freewheel, or that someone is still making 2 speed freewheels is simply a curiosity. The only way a dingle speed ever made any since to me was a drivetrain having two singlespeed drivetrains (that's why it's twice as cool), which is what the Surly dingle cog system creates. If there was a 2x2 freewheel similar system prior to the Surly Dingle cog system I missed it; flip/flop hubs is all I ever heard of. But that is why I qualified my argument to be solely about the Surly fixed dingle cog.


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## raganwald (Mar 1, 2011)

bad mechanic said:


> What is it about "single" that people don't get? If the bike has more than a *single* speed on it, it's not a *single* speed. How could it be any easier?


If I have a flip-flop hub, is it a single speed?

Some say yes, some say no. Either way, it's easy to come up with a simple definition that's easy to understand, it's just that different people have different easy definitions. By my definition, a bike with a flip flop hub is a singlespeed. By yours, it isn't. Easy either way.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

aka brad said:


> Huh? Where did you get the idea that a singlespeed using a tensioner is not a singlespeed? Perhaps you meant that a drivetrain with a tensioner and a choice of gears is not a singlespeed; that would seem to be self evident. The reason you never heard the word _dingle_ before is because it is a recent development by Surly, to allow two different gear ratios with a fixed gear, *without* using a flip/flop or otherwise (is there another method besides a flip/flop?) without significantly changing the chain length. Surly defined "dingle" in the above description and since they invented the concept they can call it what ever they wanted, which is why a dual-speed bike using a tensioner or a flip/flop hub not a dingle.
> 
> As far as the conflict between the Dingle speed and "One God One Gear," perhaps I need to develop a tringle speed to depict the trinity


I was running it and calling it "dingle" loooong before Surly invented it and the whole has to be fixed to be dingle thing is BS. JMNSHOOC
Keep in mind that I'm much cooler than most kids though so you can throw my score out.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

No, a flip flop hub is not a single speed. It's a geared bike with an inconvenient shifting method, same as having both cogs on the same side of the hub.. If you can ride out somewhere, and at the top of the hill change your gear ratio by flipping your wheel, you're not riding a single speed bike.


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## sunset1123 (Apr 28, 2009)

raganwald said:


> My definition is the easiest to understand: if you can change gears without dismounting, it's not a singlespeed. If you have to stop and fool around with the wheel and/or chain, it's a singlespeed.
> 
> This simple definition explains why a dinglespeed is also a single speed, as is a flip-flop hub, but an internally geared rear hub is not a singlespeed and neither is an internally geared two speed front crank.
> 
> As for dinglespeed, I don't agree with Surly. Or at least, I have a broader definition. If when you stop and fool around with the wheel and/or chain you have two gear options, you have a dinglespeed. The Surly approach happens to be a very elegant way to achieve this.


I like this. :thumbsup:

So, I'll recant... the photos I posted are NOT a dinglespeed, but a two-speed. Next we'll be making distinctions between a singlespeed and a one-speed. Or maybe we already have... I don't know.

Bottom line: having one is good. Having two is also good. Not having to worry about 27 is the best. I think I'll go for a ride now.


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## raganwald (Mar 1, 2011)

bad mechanic said:


> No, a flip flop hub is not a single speed. It's a geared bike with an inconvenient shifting method, same as having both cogs on the same side of the hub.. If you can ride out somewhere, and at the top of the hill change your gear ratio by flipping your wheel, you're not riding a single speed bike.


Believe me, I understand your position and rationale. You're entitled to it. Note that I don't say you're wrong, I just say we have different perspectives. I used to have a flip-flop on a road bike. I rarely flipped it during a ride, it was more about one configuration for commuting, another for group rides. Likewise, if I were a dingler, it would probably be one gear for trials, another for trails. I can't imagine fooling around with a gear on the trail during a ride.


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## Cygnus (Jan 7, 2004)

*A suggestion -- new forum*

mods: consider creating a new forum for alternative drivetrains.

several people here seem pretty hung up on terminology, which is unfortunate because riders of 2x2, flip flop hubs, etc. need much of the same information as those riding something considered purer.

i have several each of SS and 2x2 bikes. i see more similarity than difference, however, i'm happy to go elsewhere for information where there's more than one chainring and cog on a bike. i have almost nothing invested in this forum anymore, but this place was once invaluable for me to get started building SSs.

so, to put an end to the senseless terminology debate, i believe it's time move discussion of 2x2s and other alternative drivetrains to a new forum.


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## Singlespeedpunk (Jan 6, 2004)

Really, in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter?

I have a White Ind DOS on my CrossCheck. 36:17 / 34:19. So according to many it is not a singlespeed and I am a looser/faker/not manly.

I rode the 36:17 350miles on the road across France and Belgium to the Euro SS Champs last weekend, switched to 34:19 for the off-road and then changed back for the ride back and no one cared.

I also have a flip-flop hub with a 17t fixed cog for mechanical bail-out, does that make it a tringle-speed?

SSP


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## raganwald (Mar 1, 2011)

Cygnus said:


> several people here seem pretty hung up on terminology, which is unfortunate


Indeed:



> Glen O. Gabbard, M.D. suggested Freud's "Narcissism of Small Difference" provides a framework within which to understand that in a loving relationship there can be a need to find, and even exaggerate, differences in order to preserve a feeling of separateness and self.[6]
> In terms of postmodernity, consumer culture has been seen as predicated on 'the "narcissism of small differences"...to achieve a superficial sense of one's own uniqueness, an ersatz sense of otherness which is only a mask for an underlying uniformity and sameness'.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences


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## Singlespeedpunk (Jan 6, 2004)

raganwald said:


> Indeed:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences


<all together="" now=""> Yes, we are all individuals! </all>



SSP


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Singlespeedpunk said:


> ... I am a looser/faker/not manly.
> ...
> SSP


Whoa. Who said / implied this?

--sParty


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## killsurfcity (Sep 21, 2009)

how about dingle plus one... tringlespeed!


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## ancient rascal (Mar 2, 2010)

*Move my pic ?*

I'm happy......now I have to explain why my Klein is in the SS'er catagory. Looks like I've been dinglin and not singlin ? When I am confronted on the trails sometimes I subject myself to pat downs to prove I'm not carring another chain to use the 20t in the pic. :nono: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=6659015#poststop


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

ancient rascal said:


> I'm happy......now I have to explain why my Klein is in the SS'er catagory. Looks like I've been dinglin and not singlin ? When I am confronted on the trails sometimes I subject myself to pat downs to prove I'm not carring another chain to use the 20t in the pic. :nono: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=6659015#poststop


My new Turner Sultan is a 1x10 -- I call it a tingle.

I don't consider myself less manly for riding it, don't think anyone else does, either.

Tho it's not a singlespeed.

--sParty


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## raganwald (Mar 1, 2011)

Sparticus said:


> My new Turner Sultan is a 1x10 -- I call it a tingle.
> 
> I don't consider myself less manly for riding it, don't think anyone else does, either.
> 
> Tho it's not a singlespeed.


I tried a XC race for shiddly giggles last week-end. There was a singlespeed class, and everyone in it was riding fully rigid. All the ones I could see were 29ers with skinny tires, they looked like someone put flat bars on a cyclocross bike.

My own so-called "singlespeed" has 26" fat tires, a dropper post, and 120mm of travel. I put myself down for another category, it seemed obvious my bike had far more in common with the geared bikes than it did with the singlespeeds.


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## Cygnus (Jan 7, 2004)

Singlespeedpunk said:


> Really, in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter?
> SSP


no, the sun will someday burnout and we will all die, so it doesn't matter.

what matters is trying to exchange information in a way that doesn't constantly devolve into a generally pointless debate about what a singlespeed is.

it matters if you are entering in an SS class for a race, otherwise, does it really matter?


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## subliminalshiver (Jan 8, 2007)

aka brad said:


> Sorry sunset1123 but a dinglespeed is twice as cool as singlespeed.


Do we have to go over the singlespeed math situation _*again*_? Obviously, a dinglespeed is HALF as cool as a singlespeed, just as a 1x9 is 1/9th as cool, and a 3x9 is 1/27th as cool.


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## subliminalshiver (Jan 8, 2007)

*Another Suggestion:*



Cygnus said:


> ..so, to put an end to the senseless terminology debate, i believe it's time move discussion of 2x2s and other alternative drivetrains to a new forum.


Or you could just unsubscribe from this thread and let the rest of us pedantic masses enjoy these "debates".


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## raganwald (Mar 1, 2011)

subliminalshiver said:


> Or you could just unsubscribe from this thread and let the rest of us pedantic masses enjoy these "debates".


Speaking as one pedant who entered the debate willingly, we should recognize that while someone can unsubscribe easily, it is also our responsibility to ensure that each and every one of our posts gives something to the mtbr community.

In this case, the OP's original question was answered fairly definitively before the conversation meandered off, so I'm open to reading more about why anything with two cogs and two chainrings isn't a singlespeed 

I think we should always try to make sure that when people ask sincere questions like this that they get a direct and definitive answer before things take a turn for the religious.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Sparticus said:


> I don't consider myself less manly for riding it, don't think anyone else does, either.


True. We have many other reasons to consider you less manly.
.
.
.
.
.

It was _right there_ so I grabbed it...


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Nat said:


> True. We have many other reasons to consider you less manly.
> .
> .
> .
> ...


Damn... you again. 

--sParty


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## Bubba Dinglespeed (Jan 31, 2011)

I love all these arguments about the technicality of wether a bike is a singlspeed or not! I ride a dinglepeed and it works for me. I got the idea from the Rivendell Quickbeam set up. I wasn't about to throw down the cash for the White Industries set up. I put two cogs on a dished rear wheel and two rings up front. Cheap and easy! 
I was wondering, if I go on a ride and I don't need to get off to switch gears, do I betray my Dinglespeedness and become a Singlepeeder? Such and agonizing dilemma!
Not really, I'm just having fun on my bike! Isn't that what it's about?


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## desertrider83 (Apr 28, 2011)

I have a mountain bike. On that mountain bike, there is no front or rear derailleur. 
the Chain constantly only rides on one gear in the front, and one gear in the back. it has a tensioner to take up the little slack left I couldn't take out from removing links.

I have zero idea how this could not be a single speed mountain bike with there being only one gear available.

must be one of those things you have to experience to understand the difference.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Bubba Dinglespeed said:


> ... I'm just having fun on my bike! Isn't that what it's about?


That's what riding is about.

Arguing is what internet forums are about. 

--sParty


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

Sparticus said:


> Arguing is what internet forums are about.
> 
> --sParty


No, that is what you are all about. For me, internet forums is all about being an ******* and calling other people *******, *******.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

umarth said:


> No, that is what you are all about. For me, internet forums is all about being an ******* and calling other people *******, *******.


Shut the **** up.

--sParty


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

umarth said:


> No, that is what you are all about. For me, internet forums is all about being an ******* and calling other people *******, *******.


I thought we were supposed to be learning new information here?

Well, ****.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

erik1245 said:


> I thought we were supposed to be learning new information here?
> 
> Well, ****.


Well, you're a ****ing idiot, *******.

Way to exploit the mother****ing loophole (Though I fixed it to wonderful asterisks.)


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## markaitch (Feb 17, 2010)

1x9 vassago said:


> I'm a newbie, but what is a dinglespeed.


the op's q was *what is dinglespeed?*
not whether it is a form of ss or not, or is single or dingle superior, or are dinglespeeders as manly as singlespeeders, etc.

perhaps now we could move on to a less controversial topic...like maybe religion?

oh yeah, that's right...singlespeed is sort of a religion, isn't it? :winker:


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## sunset1123 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Dinglespeed*: a bicycle that is ridden in a manner similar to a singlespeed, with the exception that it has two ratios, one of which can be selected by manually shifting the chain without the use of mechanical shifting aids such as derailleurs.



markaitch said:


> oh yeah, that's right...singlespeed is sort of a religion, isn't it? :winker:


I like to think of it in terms of such. Take Christianity, for example... you've got about a hundred different persuasions, some differing only slightly on some point of metaphysics or ritual. Nonetheless, folks identify with, and get very attached to their 'brand' of belief even though pretty much all of them can agree on the same basic tenets.

In the end, it is plain to see that all these differences amount to very little, and all the participants are essentially after the same *experience*, albeit through slightly differing *means*. *

So I submit that the religion of Singlespeed should embrace its many different varieties, recognizing that these creative and often wayward brethren are really after a riding experience that is more similar than different.

* (No offense intended or implied to any member of any religion. Just my opinion.)


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

umarth said:


> Well, you're a dumb idiot, douchenozzle.
> 
> Way to exploit the motherloveing loophole (Though I fixed it to wonderful asterisks.)


Yea? Well, at least I don't live in Snoregon!


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## raganwald (Mar 1, 2011)

markaitch said:


> the op's q was *what is dinglespeed?*
> not whether it is a form of ss or not, or is single or dingle superior, or are dinglespeeders as manly as singlespeeders, etc.
> 
> perhaps now we could move on to a less controversial topic...like maybe religion?
> ...


The OP is probably riding quite happily, and God Bless Him! As for those of you who don't believe a Dinglespeed discussion belongs in the Singlespeed subforum...

Die, heretic scum!


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## Bubba Dinglespeed (Jan 31, 2011)

1x9 vassago said:


> I'm a newbie, but what is a dinglespeed.


Back in the old days in the Tour de France, before derailleurs, someone came up with the idea that two gear ratios would be good. One for the flats, one for the hills. So they put two chainrings up front and two cogs in the back. When they wanted to go fast on the flats, they used the big gear. When the hills got too steep, they got off and switched to the small gear. That's how dinglespeed works.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Bubba Dinglespeed said:


> Back in the old days in the Tour de France, before derailleurs, someone came up with the idea that two gear ratios would be good. One for the flats, one for the hills. So they put two chainrings up front and two cogs in the back. When they wanted to go fast on the flats, they used the big gear. When the hills got too steep, they got off and switched to the small gear. That's how dinglespeed works.


That may be how it works, but what *is* dinglespeed? 

These threads are great, yet horrific at the same time.


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

Two by Two: Hands of Blue










While the bike techically has two gear ratios; I still consider it to be a singlespeed, as you cannot change the gear ratio whilst riding. My commuter is a singlespeed with a flip flop hub with two different gear ratios, as it has a different cog on each side of the hub. Again, still a single speed because you only have a single gear ratio when riding. I see lots of bums/college kids with old Schwinn's converted into ghetto single speeds....the bikes still have the rear cassette in place; but only one sprocket is being used.

IMHO it is the number of gear ratios available while riding; not the number of cogs or rings that defines a singlespeed. i.e., if you need to dismount to change the gear ratio, it is a singlespeed.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

skankingbiker said:


> Two by Two: Hands of Blue


Shiny.


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## Ash T. Abula (Mar 29, 2011)

bad mechanic said:


> It seems like a pretty simple thing. Does the bike have only one speed on it? Then it's a single speed. Does it have more than one speed (simple yes or no)? If it does, then it's not a single speed.


Every bike has multiple speeds. Still, crawling, moving along, sprinting... and walking alongside are just a few of the speeds we all know.

You mean single gear ratio, right?


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

skankingbiker said:


> Two by Two: Hands of Blue


Too bad the series ended before story did...


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## Cygnus (Jan 7, 2004)

skankingbiker said:


> Two by Two: Hands of Blue


i have no interest in the 'singlespeed' definition debate....there will never be consensus here.

that's a nice bike. appreciate the poetry to go along with your grips and spacers.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

Bubba Dinglespeed said:


> Back in the old days in the Tour de France, before derailleurs, someone came up with the idea that two gear ratios would be good. One for the flats, one for the hills. So they put two chainrings up front and two cogs in the back. When they wanted to go fast on the flats, they used the big gear. When the hills got too steep, they got off and switched to the small gear. That's how dinglespeed works.


Bubba I may be wrong but I doubt your story. The Dinglespeed is a relatively recent invention, in the TdF and other bike racing they used Flip/Flop hubs not Dinglespeeds. Although Simplex had introduce the jockey wheel derailleur for multi speed freewheels in the 30's, there were issues with these derailleurs not being race worthy and even then the were not very allowed on the tour until 1937. The first real foray away from flip flops came in 1941 with the Cambio Corsa shifter, which lasted until 1951, when Campagnolo released the Grand Sport, one of the first production parallelogram derailleurs with two pulleys, which finally put an end to fixed gear racing drivetrains.

Not a dingle, but a four speed shifter from early Campagnolo (at the time there were only 1/8" chains so 4 gears was max). This setup was used for 10 years in pro racing until parallelogram derailleurs were improved enough for racing. 


> The Cambio Corsa shifter consisted of two levers and rods, attached to the right-side seatstay. One of the levers actuated the quick release on the rear wheel, the other moved a fork-like device that moved the chain from side to side. There were no jockey pulleys or other takeup mechanism on the chain. The rear dropouts were horizontal and somewhat longer than they are today, since "slack" in the chain was taken up by allowing the wheel to move backward and forward.
> 
> To shift, the rider would first loosen the rear wheel's quick release (remember, this is done while riding!). Then, the other lever would be turned to move the chain from one cog to the other -- as it moved, the rear wheel would move forward (when shifting to the larger cog) or backward (shifting to the smaller cog). When the shift was complete, the quick release was tightened again.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

bad mechanic said:


> Shiny.


I have thought more about this, but you and skankingbiker should be my besties with testies for the mutual appreciation.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

umarth said:


> I have thought


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

erik1245 said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol:


Not frequently, *******.


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

umarth said:


> I have thought more about this, but you and skankingbiker should be my besties with testies for the mutual appreciation.


 I'm thinkin' you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schoolin'


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

umarth said:


> I have thought more about this, but you and skankingbiker should be my besties with testies for the mutual appreciation.


Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.


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## Ash T. Abula (Mar 29, 2011)

Bonus points to Brad for setting the historic record straight!

I defy the SS category too. Bad, bad me.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

skankingbiker said:


> I'm thinkin' you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schoolin'





bad mechanic said:


> Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle


Ah, curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal(s)!


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

umarth said:


> Ah, curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal(s)!


How did your brain even learn human speech? I'm just so curious.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

bad mechanic said:


> How did your brain even learn human speech? I'm just so curious.


You will keep a civil tongue in that mouth or I will sew it shut. Is there an understanding between us?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

You're like a trained ape... without the training.


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

umarth said:


> Ah, curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal(s)!


Ha ha HA! Mine is an evil laugh...now die!


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

Ash T. Abula said:


> I defy the SS category too. Bad, bad me.


Don't get comfortable, your type never lasts long around here


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

Ash T. Abula said:


> Bonus points to Brad for setting the historic record straight!
> 
> I defy the SS category too. Bad, bad me.


The Campy Cambio Corsa worked the same as trying to switch a dingle speed on a fixed gear, including loosening the rear axle and sliding it forward or back, while still pedaling. Something seemingly so impossible is what being a retro-grouch is all about. .............................................. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:


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## sunset1123 (Apr 28, 2009)

aka brad said:


> ... Something seemingly so impossible...


Nothing seemingly impossible about it. The dropouts are semi-horizontal... the riders weight acts to keep the wheel from falling out... you'd have to soft-pedal or risk wrenching the axle right out of the dropouts, but the constant pedaling would keep tension on the chain and aid in the shift. I imagine upshifts would be just a bit easier with that mech than downshifts. Ingenious.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

sunset1123 said:


> Nothing seemingly impossible about it. The dropouts are semi-horizontal... the riders weight acts to keep the wheel from falling out... you'd have to soft-pedal or risk wrenching the axle right out of the dropouts, but the constant pedaling would keep tension on the chain and aid in the shift. I imagine upshifts would be just a bit easier with that mech than downshifts. Ingenious.


And reaching down to loosen the QR while still pedaling? It's a fixed gear, so your heels are constantly getting in the way of everything else that you're trying to do.

Retro-ers are ****ing crazy, man. :thumbsup:


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## sunset1123 (Apr 28, 2009)

erik1245 said:


> And reaching down to loosen the QR while still pedaling? It's a fixed gear, so your heels are constantly getting in the way of everything else that you're trying to do.
> 
> Retro-ers are ****ing crazy, man. :thumbsup:


Yeah, it would be fun, eh? I imagine after some practice it would take about as much time as reaching down for a water bottle, which your knees are constantly getting in the way of also. It took me some practice and patience to get that one smooth... but this shifting device, and it's massive penalty for a flubbed shift though... ouch. I imagine you would get good at it quickly.

Perhaps the geometry of the bikes themselves made this more possible? Perhaps aka brad can enlighten us here.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

sunset1123 said:


> Yeah, it would be fun, eh? I imagine after some practice it would take about as much time as reaching down for a water bottle, which your knees are constantly getting in the way of also. It took me some practice and patience to get that one smooth... but this shifting device, and it's massive penalty for a flubbed shift though... ouch. I imagine you would get good at it quickly.
> 
> Perhaps the geometry of the bikes themselves made this more possible? Perhaps aka brad can enlighten us here.


Here's a picture of a Gino Bartali using the shifter. As you can see, the lever is attached to the QR so it is loosened via linkage. The most common version had two levers; one for the QR and one for the shifter. Your mistaken about the semi-horizontal dropouts, they are parallel to the ground but longer by today's standards. The axle was held relatively in place by teeth that were cut both on the axle and into the tops of the dropouts. It was an acquired talent. Also this was not done with a fixed gear, I was just comparing it to a fixed dinglespeed and got carried away; my bad.


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## Jonesy33 (Mar 18, 2008)

aka brad said:


> Hers a picture of a Gino Bartali using the shifter. As you can see, the lever is attached to the QR so it is loosened via linkage. The most common version had two levers; one for the QR and one for the shifter. Your mistaken about the semi-horizontal dropouts, they are parallel to the ground but longer by today's standards. The axle was held relatively in place by teeth that were cut both on the axle and into the tops of the dropouts. It was an acquired talent.


OK, I just want to make sure I really understand what's going on here...
He's climbing, in the saddle, reaching down to LOOSEN THE AXLE... and MOVE THE CHAIN... whilst riding uphill, on an open road with fixed gears and no helmet....

....is that about right?

if so, @$#@$ that!!! :eekster: I nearly OTB if I have to scratch my ass while riding!


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

Jonesy33 said:


> OK, I just want to make sure I really understand what's going on here...
> He's climbing, in the saddle, reaching down to LOOSEN THE AXLE... and MOVE THE CHAIN... whilst riding uphill, on an open road with fixed gears and no helmet....
> 
> ....is that about right?
> ...


The only difference is it's not a fixed gear. The rider momentarily coasts, loosens the QR, switches gears while he's back pedaling, then coasts again while he tightens the QR and rides forward, all while maintaining forward momentum up the hill.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

aka brad said:


> The only difference is it's not a fixed gear. The rider momentarily coasts, loosens the QR, switches gears while he's back pedaling, then coasts again while he tightens the QR and rides forward, all while maintaining forward momentum up the hill.


I'm re-reading those posts, and I see nothing about fixed gear until I mentioned it in reply to someone about reaching down to the QR. Man, I gotta get my facts straight. Where the hell did I come up with fixed gear? ut:


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## Jonesy33 (Mar 18, 2008)

Well, I still stick to @#$# that!


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## M_S (Nov 18, 2007)

I may not have a singlespeed but I would like to divert the debate to a discussion of the superiority of dinglespeeds by referencing the fact that riders of such are more likely to ride to the trailhead instead of driving. Indeed, the only reason my cross bike is two by two is to give access via riding to trails both far and near. Contrast to singlespeeders loading their bikes on the car for a 5 mile drive to the trailhead because it would take them three hours to spin that distance on 32 x 20. Dinglespeeds = good for the environment.

Straw man erected and burned to the ground. Take that!


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## Jonesy33 (Mar 18, 2008)

M_S said:


> I may not have a singlespeed but I would like to divert the debate to a discussion of the superiority of dinglespeeds by referencing the fact that riders of such are more likely to ride to the trailhead instead of driving. Indeed, the only reason my cross bike is two by two is to give access via riding to trails both far and near. Contrast to singlespeeders loading their bikes on the car for a 5 mile drive to the trailhead because it would take them three hours to spin that distance on 32 x 20. Dinglespeeds = good for the environment.
> 
> Straw man erected and burned to the ground. Take that!


Actually, I ride my SS (32x20 by the way) to the trailhead regularly, upwards of 10-15k... Sure it means a little bit of silly spinning or just slower riding on the flats, but it's still riding which is always better than driving.
Not arguing superiority or anything, just saying the assumption that SSers don't ride to the trail because of their gearing is an inaccurate assumption.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Jonesy33 said:


> Actually, I ride my SS (32x20 by the way) to the trailhead regularly, upwards of 10-15k... Sure it means a little bit of silly spinning or just slower riding on the flats, but it's still riding which is always better than driving.
> Not arguing superiority or anything, just saying the assumption that SSers don't ride to the trail because of their gearing is an inaccurate assumption.


It makes for a good warm-up too. Ever so slight downhill all the way there, on a 34/18.


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## Cygnus (Jan 7, 2004)

umarth said:


> Too bad the series ended before story did...


Go ENO. Eccentric.


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## KneeHell (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm with Ash T. Abula. My multi-speed bike has got a single 20T-cog in the back and a 32T-chainring up front and it goes as fast or as slow as I churn the EBB.

Like Jonesy33 and many others I spin out to the trailhead, around the trail and back again. I've not owned a car since 1989. No need for a car, so I cannot agree with M_S that SSers are inferior for the few driving to the trails or that Dingleberries are superior and none of 'em drive to the trails.

On my multi-geared derailleur equipped bike I've had to dismount to change gears after some tragedy to the shifting system becoming shiftless. According to some here, my dismounting to change gears constitutes singlespeeding...

I like Dingles, Tingles, ningles, Singles and even jingles ... bikes, they're all good for the environment.

Peed on the strawman and put out the fire... :thumbsup:


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## damian777 (Feb 7, 2007)

bad mechanic said:


> No, a flip flop hub is not a single speed. It's a geared bike with an inconvenient shifting method, same as having both cogs on the same side of the hub.. If you can ride out somewhere, and at the top of the hill change your gear ratio by flipping your wheel, you're not riding a single speed bike.


So . . . what if i ride my singlespeed with 2 cogs, a chainwhip and lock ring tool in my backpack. Am i now not riding a singlespeed?

what about if i am doing a 12hr singlespeed race and change my bike half way thru which has a different gear, am i now riding in the geared category?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

damian777 said:


> Blah, blah, blah


You decided to resurrect this thread for this? Really?


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## Mr.Bee (Aug 22, 2010)

My dick smokes meth


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Thats dope. Meth dope.


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

damian777 said:


> what about if i am doing a 12hr singlespeed race and change my bike half way thru which has a different gear, am i now riding in the geared category?


Yes.


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## damian777 (Feb 7, 2007)

bad mechanic said:


> You decided to resurrect this thread for this? Really?


Dinglespeeds : The Resurrection


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

Mr.Bee said:


> My dick smokes meth


so, what is it? a trixie?


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## Bubba Dinglespeed (Jan 31, 2011)

I like riding dinglespeeds because they're simple and they work. I don't like shifter cables and adjusting derailleurs. I don't like spinning my ass off on the way to the trailhead in grannygear. I don't care if it doesn't fit into someone's neatly organized categories. It works for me and I'm having fun with it. That's all that matters.


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## edray (Oct 3, 2004)

*My Dinglespeed*

'92 Bontrager OR. In love.


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## damian777 (Feb 7, 2007)

Nice Bonty!!!


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

Looks more like a flip flop to me. 

Nice frame, though.


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## wj4play (Jun 15, 2011)

killsurfcity said:


> how about dingle plus one... tringlespeed!
> 
> Thats a freewheelling flip/flop fixie :thumbsup:


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## killsurfcity (Sep 21, 2009)

Sounds good to me!


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## Bubba Dinglespeed (Jan 31, 2011)

That's nice! Where is this at?


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I am trying to apply the math of dingles to my CX bike. It is ridden on roads most of the time, dirt roads and paths wherever I can find them. It has swinging dropouts and a 36/16 gear at the moment.

I'd like to have two gears on it. Something a little easier than the current gear and something a little harder. I might be limited to a 34t as the smallest gear. 42/16 would bebthe absolute hardest, but 40/17 would be fine.

What front/rear cobos would work without a radical change to the dropout position/ effective chainstay length?

36x20 and 40×16 both add up to 56 teeth each and give me gear ratios of 1.8:1 and 2.5:1, respectively.


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## Bubba Dinglespeed (Jan 31, 2011)

This combo should work I run combos with 4 tooth difference just to be able to ride at a decent speed on flat roads and canal paths, then have a smaller gear for hills.


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

raganwald said:


> Indeed:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences


Woah!

Nailed it.

As I was messing around with a Dingle build last night, and I'm not kidding, was thinking the same thing, and then just went with single speed because the way the Dingle set-up appeared didn't look good at the time.

Well the other thing is that I didn't have a second wide base cog of the right size, the main one being an Endless cog, and the free hub is aluminum, and didn't want screw it up with a stamped steel cog.

Obviously, I hadn't thought it through properly.

Here's the thing, my entire single speed Dingle, tringle, thing may be a passive rebellion against conformity. If it is, so be it. It's a blast anyway.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## Bubba Dinglespeed (Jan 31, 2011)

Glad it worked for you. Finding the gear ratio set up that works takes a little tinkering for sure!


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## NeonRyder (Feb 21, 2017)

Yeah as long as the teeth add up to the same number your chain length should be good. On my dingle i run 33x22 and 36x18


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Losers!
=sParty


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## sotak (May 20, 2009)

NeonRyder said:


> Yeah as long as the teeth add up to the same number your chain length should be good. On my dingle i run 33x22 and 36x18


Either there was a typo in there, or your dingle has some dangle.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

How do you guys change gears on a Dinglespeed?


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## NeonRyder (Feb 21, 2017)

sotak said:


> Either there was a typo in there, or your dingle has some dangle.


Lol, no typo and almost no dangle. 
I've got track dropouts so it's easy to fix a little dangle and the disc caliper lines up close enough to work just fine.

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk


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## NeonRyder (Feb 21, 2017)

j102 said:


> How do you guys change gears on a Dinglespeed?


In my case I loosen the wheel, move the chain by hand, and tighten the wheel back up.

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

NeonRyder said:


> In my case I loosen the wheel, move the chain by hand, and tighten the wheel back up.
> 
> Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk


Thanks. I thought it was something like that, but had to ask to be sure.


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

As one who has a Dingle speed i have to say, it's not a single speed. So an answer to the question, is that it is a two speed bike.

Recently built up new 29 SS and I was originally going to make it a Dingle. I said as much on another thread here.

It occurred to me that what I really want is a single speed out of this thing. I was testing various combinations theoretically in my mind and on paper to create a Dingle set-up. 

Then I went on a bunch of rides, and I realized the whole point of a single speed bike is to have one speed. Simple.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## sotak (May 20, 2009)

So should a dingle speed be classified as a "two speed, manual shift"? What if I use one of those quick-release cogs on my single speed and carry an extra in my pocket? Is it having another cog on the bike that makes it more than a single speed? What about flip-flop hubs? Is it taking the wheel off to change gears that matters? I have sliding dropouts on my dingle and have to release the wheel to get chain slack before I can change my gearing - does that make it count as a single speed??

I really want to make sure I understand this DS ≠ SS thing. When I say I ride a single speed and show up to a "singles only ride" on a dingle I'd hate to be ridiculed. 

"I swear I won't change gears during the ride!"


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## NeonRyder (Feb 21, 2017)

It seems to me that we're putting too much thought into it. If somebody showed up to a SS ride on a dingle, I wouldn't really care. 
I'd happily bring my dingle to a SS ride. Whatever gear I'd start in is what I'd run. 
I like to think of it being on the honor system.

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

Haha, we've had some pretty funny debates on this over the years, and that's same logic I've used about spare cogs. To me, if it rides like a singlespeed and can't shift then that's enough for me. 

I tried a dingle years ago to make the ride from home to the trailhead faster and more enjoyable. But the time lost loosening and readjusting the wheel to "shift" canceled out some of the time saving of a higher road gear. And there was no ring/cog combination that didn't have compromises for my off-road ratio or proper chain tension in one of the two ratios


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

boomn said:


> Haha, we've had some pretty funny debates on this over the years, and that's same logic I've used about spare cogs. To me, if it rides like a singlespeed and can't shift then that's enough for me.
> 
> I tried a dingle years ago to make the ride from home to the trailhead faster and more enjoyable. But the time lost loosening and readjusting the wheel to "shift" canceled out some of the time saving of a higher road gear. And there was no ring/cog combination that didn't have compromises for my off-road ratio or proper chain tension in one of the two ratios


I get this POV.

Just got back from an SS ride on the bike I was thinking about dingling and I stopped only once, at the top of the mountain. I like the flow.

It was a mixed ride too, with some miles of road getting to and from the dirt. It's part of single speeding fpr me to spin out and enjoy the easy pedaling while it lasts.

There's a White Industries Dos Eno on one of my bikes that works fantastic and is quick and easy to change the gear. In actual practice, the difference between the two gear ratios is not large. I still spin out on the flats. The good of it is that I have an "easier" ratio to bring to steep climbing rides.

On the Dos Dingle bike, most of the times I ride it, I set it once, and forget it. Thus, in fact, it is an effective SS.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

I'd make some purists' head spin! Not only do I have a dingle setup with my rear wheel that's 32:22 and 34:20, my front wheel is a 135mm rear hub with a fixed cog. So I can also go 34:20 fixed!


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

Viral Bikes has a couple of geared Pinon belt drive bikes on the market. 

A buddy and I were theorizing about building three speed drive trains.

I'll probably build one in the next year for pulling a Bob trailer. 

My idea is to be able to quickly and easily convert my White Industries SS Dos Eno bike with an ENO hub drivetrain to a three speed by using a different rear wheel, chain, and adding a retro long cage derailleur of some sort to the hanger.

That way the bike can usually be a single speed until it is time to go bike camping.

And on that bike, it would be Dos Tres, sort of six speed.

Yeah, not single Speedinated, but, hey trying to get by with fewer gears and pulling a load up steep trails.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

My friends have the best term for my dingle-speed Karate Monkey,

It's a steam punk single-speed. 

There. You're welcome.


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