# Mentally breaking down



## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Hey guys/girls, I feel like I just need to vent, as I'm starting to lose it. I've been having back pain since last november, after seeing a chiropractor for 2 months and with not an inch of improvement he finally ordered an MRI. Turns out I herniated three discs somehow, doesn't really matter how at this point. Anyways, I've been seeing doctors nearly 5 days a week, sometimes 2 and 3 in the same day. Physical Therapy, cortisone epidural, anti-imflamitory meds, rest, quit drinking and smoking. Nothing has been helping, there's been a few days where I'm pain free, and this past week was pretty good. Yesterday my lower back locked up, had a muscle spasm and I'm having a hard time walking again. 

I'm not allowed to run, lift weights, obviously I'm not allowed to do any DH like I'd planned on doing a lot of this season. I'm really coming to wits end, and sinking into a depression. The only thing I'm allowed to do is ride a stationary bike at the gym. 

I'm only 23, and was used to being active 4-5 hours a day, and now i'm virtually bed ridden. I'm supposed to heal in time, but right now it feels like that day is never going to come. 

Anyways, that's my little rant. Thanks for listening.


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## mlevinson (Mar 17, 2010)

I herniated 2 discs two YEARS ago. I'm only now considering getting back on a bike. I'm 39 years old so you should probably heal a little faster... but maybe not. Back injuries suck, it's that simple.

Mine was so bad I blacked out a few times and ended up in the ER. The Epidural didn't do $hit for me either. I couldn't drive 5 minutes to my local Dunkin' Donuts for a coffee without literally screaming in pain. Vicodin helped when I couldn't bear the pain anymore. Tramadol helped me sleep. Other than that it took time and a good chiropractor who knew what he was doing.

So... I get where you're coming from. My advice. Forget about the bike for a while and do what you can to stay active. For me it was walking.

Start with short walks and gradually go longer. After a few months I started short jogs and grew to several miles 4-5 days a week. I'm probably in the best shape of my life in terms of cardio.

Don't know if that helps or not... I know it sucks and it scared the crap out of me but more than likely it will heal.

Good luck and PM me if you have any questions.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Back pain is unbearable. Try some core exercises if you can. Stay clear of the drugs the doctors push, depending on the State you live in you may have better more healthy options if you know what I mean.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Sorry to hear that, back pain sucks! Can only imagine how frustrating it would be long term. Hope you get better!!


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## ortep66 (Aug 21, 2011)

Foundation Training- book and DVD. Hurt back last March and dealt with back spasms/pain etc..took a break and starting riding again. In May, hurt it again and had to shut it down for awhile. In August started riding again, but not very aggressively and was limited. Had constant hip pain. Finally went to doctor had MRI and learned Herniated disc L5/L4. Got a shot in November and it did help a little. In January heard about this "Foundation Training" and purchased book/DVD and have been doing the exercises since. Back is doing well and I'm riding. The exercises work pretty and the back is feeling stronger and stronger. 

I figure for $50 I would give the program a shot and it was well worth it. You can find some of the exercises on Youtube for free and see what I am talking about. Good Luck!


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

As long as you do not have unceasing numbness anywhere you have the opportunity to make a full recovery. Train hard, IMO if you can get your lunges perfect do them all day, but your situation is your own of course. Use excercise diligently to shape the swelling and scarring discs, the offending fragments will seperate from the healing discs and things will get back to normal mechanically.

The cold could be messing with you too, keep your back and legs warm.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Wow, that sucks!*



HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Hey guys/girls, I feel like I just need to vent, as I'm starting to lose it. I've been having back pain since last november, after seeing a chiropractor for 2 months and with not an inch of improvement he finally ordered an MRI. Turns out I herniated three discs somehow, doesn't really matter how at this point. Anyways, I've been seeing doctors nearly 5 days a week, sometimes 2 and 3 in the same day. Physical Therapy, cortisone epidural, anti-imflamitory meds, rest, quit drinking and smoking. Nothing has been helping, there's been a few days where I'm pain free, and this past week was pretty good. Yesterday my lower back locked up, had a muscle spasm and I'm having a hard time walking again.
> 
> I'm not allowed to run, lift weights, obviously I'm not allowed to do any DH like I'd planned on doing a lot of this season. I'm really coming to wits end, and sinking into a depression. The only thing I'm allowed to do is ride a stationary bike at the gym.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that, man!

What does your doc say about light trainer pedaling? I mean, it seems to me a light spin on a trainer with some good tunes on to build up some leg and back strength can only be a good thing, unless your aggravating your back injuries. I say do what you can to try and transport yourself mentally to the trail, even if you can't really do it. For me, riding is my Prozac. I get in a deep funk if I can't get exercise. Just getting your heart rate up a bit, get some energy flowing through you will do at least something to maintain your well being.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I can't imagine the back pain, but I know very well the difficulty of being unable to exercise for extended periods. It was about a year for me. I started out being unable to even sit up and I had to bring myself back from that. 

If your body needs healing, let it heal. Trying to rush it will only result in further injury, and I do know that backs are difficult to bounce back from.

I can't and I won't give you any specific advice since everybody is going to have an individual response to that sort of injury. Just keep within your limits and let yourself heal.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

have you tried medical marijuana?


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## jimbowho (Dec 16, 2009)

I won't go into it, but I know first hand what your dealing with. My suggestions are to not do one single thing that irritates your situation. If some nimrod at PT tells you to do something painfull, politely explain to them it's not going to happen. Don't even do therapy, it won't unbulge your disc material. Rest. If your going numb here and there, and your muscles (Mine were calf) are shrinking, you need a Dr. that gives a crap about you. After thousands of vicoden, and ruined personal life I went to my hospital, layed on the ground in the lobby, told them I'm not moving until something gets done. That's what worked for me. Dr. Shopler fused, and made a window so my nerves had a clean pathway MY WORDS not theirs. Your just a kid, relax and know you still got 78 years to go. Forget about the stupid bike for now and address this issue until it's over. Watch your blood pressure too, this kind of stuff wreaks havoc on your mind, being mentally irritated and stressed out 24-7 is rough for anyone. Keep at it. Luck


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## Betarad (Oct 24, 2009)

Some time ago, I would guess in my early 30's, I went through a two year period of suffering from fairly frequent lower back pain. The bouts of pain progressively became worse, often leading to back spasms so bad I would end up on the floor in the fetal position unable to move for an hour or more because of the debilitating pain. 

I was under regular chiropractic care throughout much of this period. Realizing this alone wasn't resolving the issue, and I wasn't into simply medicating the pain away, I kept questioning my chiropractor about specific exercises and stretching I could do at home to help. Finally at the end of one visit he gave me a single sheet of paper, copied from the pages of some book, that illustrated and explained about 4 or 5 lower back-specific muscle strengthening and stretching exercises. Within about 2 months of doing these exercises at home, all bouts of spasm-inducing lower back pain disappeared, as did regular visits to the chiropractor (which I think is why he seemed reluctant to supply me with this info).

Unfortunately I can't recall the specifics on the exercises....to be honest it apparently worked so well I haven't done any of them in many years. They may well be included in the Foundation Training ortep66 speaks of. They were all non-impact, non-resistance moves. If you can dig them up on a web search or some other source, I recommend giving them a try.


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

I've been making a lot of progress, but it seems like it's always 1 step forward 2 steps back. That's the part that kills me inside, I can deal with the pain as long as there's a light at the end of the tunnel. 

I guess I'm just going to have to just work with what I've got and work on the stationary bike. As for the drugs, I have a bad history, so weed and pain killers is out of the question for me.


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## cigarlover (Oct 24, 2011)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> As for the drugs, I have a bad history, so weed and pain killers is out of the question for me.


Sounds to me like your already doing much better buddy !!! good job there on the wise decisions regarding the drugs due to your history with them. I'm sure the back is soon to follow in the healing process.

In the mean time I'm praying for a speedy recovery from the injury and anything else that has been suffered from :thumbsup:


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## edley (Dec 8, 2006)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Hey guys/girls, I feel like I just need to vent, as I'm starting to lose it. I've been having back pain since last november, after seeing a chiropractor for 2 months and with not an inch of improvement he finally ordered an MRI. Turns out I herniated three discs somehow, doesn't really matter how at this point. Anyways, I've been seeing doctors nearly 5 days a week, sometimes 2 and 3 in the same day. Physical Therapy, cortisone epidural, anti-imflamitory meds, rest, quit drinking and smoking. Nothing has been helping, there's been a few days where I'm pain free, and this past week was pretty good. Yesterday my lower back locked up, had a muscle spasm and I'm having a hard time walking again.
> 
> I'm not allowed to run, lift weights, obviously I'm not allowed to do any DH like I'd planned on doing a lot of this season. I'm really coming to wits end, and sinking into a depression. The only thing I'm allowed to do is ride a stationary bike at the gym.
> 
> ...


I have years of experience in the assessemt of back injuries. While several posters related a successful recovery using a chiropractor, your case demonstrates that they are not medical doctors and, due to their limited training, are sometimes ill-equipped to correctly assess the structural cause of pain in the back. Thus, the time you spent with a chiropractor before he/she ordered the MRI must be looked at as not assisting your recovery, and because of the herniation, you might have well been irritating your spinal nerves by following the chiropractor's course of treatment. So, now that you have a medical diagnosis, you are really back at square one, but you at least have an understanding of the structural problem in your spine, and you are now under the care of a medical doctor who can interpret the MRI and design a course of treatment.

That being said, you want to avoid at all costs surgery. Some doctors are quick to suggest surgery, and if yours does not suggest a long course of conversative treatment (meaning limitations on movement, exercises and drugs), then run to another doctor. Why? Any time there is a surgical procedure, the body forms scar tissue. Scar tissue is thicker than normal tissue, and there is the potential for it to press on the nerve to cause pain just as the herniation is pressing on the nerve presently. Surgery is a last resort, especially at your age. It can, and does work, but look at it as a last step.

Another point to keep in mind is that as we age, the majority of us have protruding, or even herniated, disks in our back, but they are asymptomatic, meaning they do not cause pain. So, while your herniation is currently causing pain, it may be that once the swelling and irritation are addressed with conservative treatment, you may no longer experience pain even though the herniations are still there. Each case is different, but this gives you some additional context as you sort out your recovery.

As an interim step, discuss with your doctor working towards riding a recumbent bike, or riding on the road, as getting outside on a bike, even on the road, will lift your spirits and get you off the trainer.

Best of luck, and my bet is that you will start seeing improvement.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Herniated disk here, too, Sean. 10mm bulge on L5 (plus scoliosis and calcification). Issues since I was in my early 20s, now I'm 50 and have it under control. Keys to success IMO:

Ice
You didn't mention that as part of your back management. IME when at your worst is when you need it most. Get a neoprene back brace and re-freezable pouches so you can ice anywhere/time without laying down. I used to do it at work, while driving, etc.

Hydration
I can always feel dehydration. When my back is feeling grumbly, I chug more and it invariably helps.

Avoid bikes and chairs
Duh, right? Sit as infrequently and for the shortest durations you can. I know it's tough; I missed a few years of biking, partly because I was riding the wrong bike...FS for me these days.

When you do ride, use a back-friendly bike/build
Sounds like you're prolly not on a hardtail or something less forgiving. An extra-plush seat and shock absorbing post (Thudbuster, etc.) are prudent measures (that your buddies might laugh at). A back brace or kidney belt can provide support and be worn under clothing.

Keeping back muscles toned
More preventative than a treatment. Don't even think about it during a low point.

Indoor "rock" climbing
An activity that decompresses your spine (rather than compress it, which cycling, weight lifting and generally living in gravity does), combined with moderate twisting and pulling. Moderation is key. Always climb with a top-rope. Jumping to the ground is obviously bad, so is being caught by the rope after a fall. Again, not to be done at the worst times. Go easy and beware of shoulder, elbow and finger ligament strains. This is a great one because you actually feel like you're doing something, which can stave off that "losing it" feeling when riding is not possible.

Physical therapy
My wife was a PT assistant, and she took me in after hours and did ultrasound (w/ analgesic gel), electro-stimulation, massage and ice many nights in a row to get me under control.

Eventually I weaned off the Celebrex, but I think anti-inflam meds have their place.

I haven't had any debilitating episodes in years, knocking wood. (FWIW, I never had lasting results from chiropractors.) You can get through it, too. Wishing you quickest recovery and ongoing good back health.

Mike


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## Twilight Error (Jan 12, 2004)

When your back recovers (if you follow the above advice, it will recover reasonably quick), develop a serious Yoga habit. Your insurance may cover it as a preventative measure, mine did when I hurt my back some 10 years ago.

Not only will Yoga strengthen your core, it will help you develop the flexibility you need to avoid re-injuring your back.


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## mlevinson (Mar 17, 2010)

Totally agree with avoiding sitting for prolonged periods. Also, if you must sit invest in a lumbar pillow. I have one in my car which has worked wonders. During my most intense periods I stood all day. While my legs got tired, my back was much happier.

I also would lay on my back on the floor while watching TV. Most furniture is garbage and puts your back in a position which helps push disks out. Listen to your back and if it hurts, stop doing it.

If ANYONE recommends surgery, run to a new doctor.

To all the rest of you... if you are looking for a nice piece of furniture check out Ekornes, which I think is marketed as "Stressless" here in the states since Ekornes isn't the easiest to pronounce. 

Leather recliner chairs and sofas | Scandinavian furniture ::Ekornes

Their furniture was the only stuff that didn't cause pain. It has received all sorts of awards for proper seating posture and support. It's not cheap, but neither are doctor appointments!


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## akazan (Jul 9, 2005)

*back pain*

I work in Surgery as a nurse, encountered a lot of patient who had different pain management treatment and surgical procedures. Pain management theraphy such combination oral analgesic and blocks are just 
temporary helps, but it will not do any good on your back problem. In terms of surgical procedure, as long the back problem is localized HNP and no arthritic or loose spinal structures, then microdiscectomy will help you. Surgeon will decompress the lamina and remove the problem, HNP. Don't let the surgeon do Fusion or disc repalcement on you, co'z you are young and active. Fusion is not a good procedure as to what I heard from my previous patients. 
We have this anesthesiologist, who had back pain before and I've seen him in pain, moving very slow and using lumbar pillow until he decided to have lumbar laminectomy with microdiscectomy done. Now, he is
pain free and moving better. You need to make sure to get a good surgeon, who could explain where the problem is (ask him on the MRI) and surgical options. If you are not satisfied, don't hesitate to get a second opinion. Another way to make sure the surgeon is a good one, call
the hospital where he does his surgical procedure and talk to nurses...ask them how good that
surgeon is. If the nurse is hesitant to answer your question...don't take that surgeon.


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## camarosam (Jul 26, 2009)

I have back pain as well; I developed it playing baseball and is the reason why I cant play ball anymore. I need surgery to move the nerve that is out of place in my lower back; I can tell you the pain just shoots down my leg and up through my back. Chiropractic care did help, but it gets annoying to consistently have to go. 

This is what you can try that may help you out: 
Get to a pull up bar, grab the bar and just hang there, totally relaxed with no muscle contraction at all. This will loosen the joints up a bit throughout your back and should somewhat relieve it a bit. 
Start stretching your legs whenever you feel needed to do so. Lunge forward to stretch your inner thighs. Lay flat on the ground, tuck your ankle on top and above your knee, place hand on foot and knee, pull towards chest. Groin stretches and anything that is around your hips will help the lower back. Building more muscle in your core, legs, and back will help a lot. 
I also agree to stand more, I noticed this helps. But if I stand too much then my back starts to bother me. 

I'm 24 years old and it really does suck to have this kind of pain at such a young age. And to make it worst I fell off my bike without a neck brace 2 years ago, and now I get crazy headaches sometimes. I'm active like 6 days a week; I get depressed if I'm not outside doing something. I feel your pain, and don't want to think about what I'm going to be like as I get older and all these action sports start catching up on me.


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

A relatively recent study done on lumbar disc herniation patients found that five years following the event, the ones who had surgical procedures were experiencing about the same amount of residual back pain as the patients who did nothing but rest and very mild PT .

Initial recovery times were comparable too. 
I could offer my own perspective, but you have already been deluged with those from others, and I don't want to muddy your waters any further. 

Just keep this in mind: your body can and will, given time, heal to the extent that you will be functional again. You might not ever get that World Record Squat or Deadlift that you might feel is waiting for you, but so what? You can do LOTS of useful things in your life to come, things that will make a difference to you, those around you, and the world in general. 

Just give yourself some TIME for your body and mind to heal, and avoid the temptation to jump onto the OR table for at least a couple of years....you might not feel like it, but you are just a pup, life is long, and the knife, or the laser, or whatever, can have serious side effects. Once you do that the dice have been cast.

And you might not be able to un-cast them.


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

She&I said:


> Herniated disk here, too, Sean. 10mm bulge on L5 (plus scoliosis and calcification). Issues since I was in my early 20s, now I'm 50 and have it under control. Keys to success IMO:
> 
> Ice
> You didn't mention that as part of your back management. IME when at your worst is when you need it most. Get a neoprene back brace and re-freezable pouches so you can ice anywhere/time without laying down. I used to do it at work, while driving, etc.
> ...


Thanks for the info, I'm going to start icing instead of heating and see how that works out. And the rock climbing sounds pretty fun as well.

And thanks to everyone else, I'm not considering surgery as an option right now. My trust in doctor's is not very high, just based on my mom's experiences.

I've pretty much just been sleeping all weekend, kind of depressed I guess. But I just woke up from a nap and got 2 nice pops out of the left side that locked up, and the spasm has calmed down a bit. I'm hoping by Tuesday I can start therapy again.

You all have cheered me up a bit, Thanks again for the kind words.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Consider a single speed. I had very bad back pain and meds wouldn't even touch the pain and I started core training. Later after I got stronger, I started SSing and it really works your core and makes you stand much of the time with can also help. Keep in minds many doctors will tell you not to ride and push drugs and "procedures".


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

She&I said:


> Herniated disk here, too, Sean. 10mm bulge on L5 (plus scoliosis and calcification). Issues since I was in my early 20s, now I'm 50 and have it under control. Keys to success IMO:
> 
> Ice
> You didn't mention that as part of your back management. IME when at your worst is when you need it most. Get a neoprene back brace and re-freezable pouches so you can ice anywhere/time without laying down. I used to do it at work, while driving, etc.
> ...


Thanks for the info, I'm going to start icing instead of heating and see how that works out. And the rock climbing sounds pretty fun as well.

And thanks to everyone else, I'm not considering surgery as an option right now. My trust in doctor's is not very high, just based on my mom's experiences.

I've pretty much just been sleeping all weekend, kind of depressed I guess. But I just woke up from a nap and got 2 nice pops out of the left side that locked up, and the spasm has calmed down a bit. I'm hoping by Tuesday I can start therapy again.

You all have cheered me up a bit, Thanks again for the kind words.


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## hsakkire (Mar 6, 2010)

Some great advice has already been provided. Avoid surgery at all costs and take small steps toward a goal. Each step forward is a step closer. The hardest part of this is mental. You will battle it daily in your head. 

I ruptured a cervical (neck) disc (C5/6)and they told me riding would be out of the question. I also have a herniated lumbar at L4/5. Posture and PT are key for me. That, and listening to my body. I find gears really exascerbate the lumbar problem. Fortunately for me, I have been single speed only for a very long time. I tried gears as a test and the pain was brutal. 

I do an hour of PT daily and still ride a lot. I try to get in an average of 3 days per week. But, it takes a lot of time to recover and PT really helped me. I also stopped seeing a chiropractor after the ruptured disc.

Listen to your body and be willing to stay off the bike for an extended period of time. Give your body time to recover and try SS'ing. You will stand a lot and it helps stretch your lumbar region. This is a good thing. Seated grinding, even easy stuff, will make it worse in my experience. 

Keep us posted and know that you're not alone. It's a lifestyle change.


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## XLR99 (Sep 21, 2010)

Hang in there! I can relate, since I'm only slightly ahead of you in the recovery phase. I feel you on the depression thing, had to cancel my gravel race reg for next week, and with all the nice weather, it kills to be standing/lying around when every hour another group ride goes by the house. Just remember, this too shall pass. My pain finally started trending better last week after maybe three weeks of PT. 
Also, I can personally vouch for waiting it out. I hurt my back in January, and kept trying to get on the trainer to spin for 30-45min. Bad idea, made it worse. I should've just stayed off the bike altogether.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Thanks for the info, I'm going to start icing instead of heating and see how that works out. And the rock climbing sounds pretty fun as well.


I hope it helps, Sean. FWIW I've gotten the best results from heat early in the day (hot shower blasting in the morning) and ice later in the day and before bed. At the worst times I've also iced in the middle of the night for some relief. I hope you have a decent climbing gym close to you. Cheers...

Mike


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## jacklikesbeans (Feb 18, 2011)

Hope you heal quickly!


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

i didn't reat the whole thread but please take it form someone with (second hand) experience... be VERY careful with pain meds...


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## TheBigV (Aug 18, 2011)

Been there. My 2 cents. Chiros are quacks....they crack your back, charge you 80 bucks and say "see you tomorrow." I'd be very leary using a chiro if you have herniated disks. On the other hand, all doctors want to do is to dope you up or cut you open. Do not consider back surgery at your age unless you really have no other options. Most folks I know who have had back surgery are worse off after than before.

Here is what I did, which really seemed to help. 1) Physical therapy; 2) I bought "How to Heal Your Own Back", which contains a tons of stretching exercising..pelvic tilts, bridges, etc.; 3) stay as active as you can. I hear you about lying on the floor in pain....But lying on the couch for weeks on end will make things worse; 4) join a gym with a pool----floating on my back really seemed to help; 5) pay attention to your posture when sitting; 5), when you feel up to it, start working on core exercises.....pilates REALLY helped me; 6) I bought a temperpedic bed-----soooooooo worth it; 7) Do as much light cycling as possible, and look into getting a suspension seatpost and/or a brooks saddle until you heal up a bit.

Hang in there. It can and does get better. I spent a year suffering with this....but over time, it became manageable, and let got to the point where I can still do xc stuff. Hang in there. Stay off the drugs and religiously do your stretching exercises.


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

4x4runner said:


> i didn't reat the whole thread but please take it form someone with (second hand) experience... be VERY careful with pain meds...


I don't take anything besides Aleve/anti-inflamitory. Pain meds have there place, but I don't feel like they'll do anything to help this situation.



TheBigV said:


> Been there. My 2 cents. Chiros are quacks....they crack your back, charge you 80 bucks and say "see you tomorrow." I'd be very leary using a chiro if you have herniated disks. On the other hand, all doctors want to do is to dope you up or cut you open. Do not consider back surgery at your age unless you really have no other options. Most folks I know who have had back surgery are worse off after than before.
> 
> Here is what I did, which really seemed to help. 1) Physical therapy; 2) I bought "How to Heal Your Own Back", which contains a tons of stretching exercising..pelvic tilts, bridges, etc.; 3) stay as active as you can. I hear you about lying on the floor in pain....But lying on the couch for weeks on end will make things worse; 4) join a gym with a pool----floating on my back really seemed to help; 5) pay attention to your posture when sitting; 5), when you feel up to it, start working on core exercises.....pilates REALLY helped me; 6) I bought a temperpedic bed-----soooooooo worth it; 7) Do as much light cycling as possible, and look into getting a suspension seatpost and/or a brooks saddle until you heal up a bit.
> 
> Hang in there. It can and does get better. I spent a year suffering with this....but over time, it became manageable, and let got to the point where I can still do xc stuff. Hang in there. Stay off the drugs and religiously do your stretching exercises.


I'm actually starting to agree with everyone about chiro's. I went to my therapist today, and he told me I through my back and hips 100% out of line, just like the first time he saw me he said. My Chiro told me it was a spasm, and would heal on it's own in a few days. The two of them work in the same office I'd like to ad, so they both know me and know what's going on.

Anyways, he set my hips in place today, how long they'll hold position for i don't know. But the pain as subsided a little bit.

It's story's like your's that scare and confuse me. My P.T says I should make a full recovery in a few months, but I keep hearing from people that years later they're still suffering and battling this.


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## MTK (Feb 18, 2004)

*Wow,*

sorry to hear of your pain and just being plain depressed. I have been reading
this thread as I too am in pain. When I was 10 years old{now 43} I ran through
the house playing tag. I pushed on a door with Plate Glass in it with my ass
as the door would stick. It broke, formed a V and stuck right through me missing
my Liver by 1" the Doc. said. 36 stictches inside and 25 out. As the one 
poster said,scar tissue is nasty. That's what I have now. I should go and get it
cleaned up,but have been in pain for so many years,I just deal with it. When It's
cold, my scar turns Purple. The harder I work,the worse the pain.

I am a Glazier{ a person who install's any type of Glass} Glass is heavy,very heavy.
Which brings me to my current pain. My c4,c5 bulding disc in the spine is squeezing
the nerves that conduct sensation from the Arm. My Lord,this is a terrible thing. I
Hold my arm as if somone shot me in pain. It's been 6 mounths now, and short of
getting a Shot in the neck,there is nothing I can do. I stretch it,which brings some
relief,but not much. I need to rest,but I cant,like the rest of us,I have to go to work.
That's all I have to say. Peace.

MTK


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## moofish (May 3, 2011)

I had prolapsed discs in my neck and after suffering for 5 years I was finally diagnosed correctly. If I had been diagnosed correctly from the start the issue could have been fixed with physio. Instead I now have a plate in my neck and 2 fused discs. After 10 years of using all sorts of meds for the pain that the op did not fix I decided to stop all meds except cannabis. The cannabis helps stop the sudden spasms I had that caused a lot of the pain. Years of pills just seem to lower your pain threshold over time. Since I quit the meds my pain has almost gone I just use pot regularly (I would have anyway) Occaisionally I use anti-inflammitory pills when the pain gets bad. I had the op when I was 30 and I have excellent flexibilty but the pain does not go away. You may have to put up with this for the rest of your life if you dont get it treated ASAP. As for operations I would always leave this as a last resort but dont avoid it if you really need it, you could make things far worse if you delay too long. The spine grows around the bulging disc and can compress the nerves, once damaged nerves will never fully recover. I wouldnt say my op was a success but you dont know how bad it would be without it. My doc said I was about to lose the use of my arm and I can still use it now. But he also said I would never work as an electrician again and I have been for 12 years since the op. Remember physio can move things around or make muscles stronger but it cannot repair anything.


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## JackJr (Sep 24, 2007)

Avoid Surgery at all costs......now that you read that load of crap one more time - ignore it. If your PC recommends it and you can find a surgeon you trust, don't hesitate to consider it. Consider it carefully but consider it. I had a ruptured disk 7 years ago. Went through pain for months trying to figure it all out and then trying to avoid the surgery - finally got the surgery - problem solved - at least for now. I still have a partial disk, I am not young again but the pain is gone and the memory of the pain is almost gone - seriously, that part took a while. Some injuries are good canidates for a surgical solution and some are not so consider your situation carefully but ignore anyone who tells you to avoid surgery as a matter of course...it's uninformed too often repeated - reread akazan's post - best advice on this thread.


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## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

Let me add my nickel to this.

I'm now 53; in 2003, I was diagnosed with 2 herniated lumbar discs (a third a year later) and spinal stenosis (told then that this condition narrows the vertebral openings for the nerves). I spent the entire month of December '03 perched on a chair that I was sitting backwards on (leaning on the chairback, ass off the seat, basically supported by my thighs); it was literally the only comfortable position I could find ANYWHERE. I was started on meds then (Lodine, they avoided Vicodin/Oxy because of the addictive natures), that work well enough to allow me to function even now. December '04 saw the same thing, and I was resigned to the idea that I'd have to find a job that wasn't physical, severely curtail my riding, and stop playing so much with my kids.

Never happened.

The body DOES adapt; as long as I don't act recklessly, my back pain is marginal now. (I have constant numbness in my right big toe, but that's about it) I'm still doing the same job, I wrestle with my boy, we do 20+ -mile rides together.

Your situation sounds a little more intense than mine, but I'm confident you WILL come out the other side. Did you say you were 23? I remember the immediacy of that age, just take a deep breath and wait for it. (I look at it like this, and have for decades: you'll either wake up tomorrow or you won't. If you don't your worries are over. If you do, you're a step closer to recovery.)


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Woke up this morning and the pain has actually gotten worse than ever, Before it stayed in my butt, at one specific point. Now its across my entire left cheek and down the front of my leg. I've already been recommended a surgeon and I'm making an appointment. 

This is the part thats getting to me, last week I was fine, slowly back to the gym, riding 10 miles a day on a paved path. Not the level I was at, but still active enough to keep my sanity. Now I'm hobbling around again. Just knowing that I could sleep a little weird, and destroy all the progress that was made kills me.


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## CycleAddict (Aug 8, 2009)

Really sorry that you're having such a difficult time. I don't know much about back injuries, but when I was 18 I injured my lower back from riding BMX. I don't know exactly what the problem was as I never went to a Doctor or Chiropractor. It took probably 3 months for it to recover completely. In the interim, I just rode my track bike fairly leisurely and impatiently waited. 

I'm lucky that I recovered and didn't hurt myself more. I'm in my early 20's now. I would try to just look at the long term here, as hard as it is. You sound like you're taking it fairly well. I know I'd be a nut case. Don't worry about this season. Just take it slow, get some pavement rides in when you feel up to it, and you will recover. I'm sorry I don't have better advice than that, but I'm sending healing vibes!


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

So just pain in your leg ? No unceasing numbness ?
That is actually a a good sign that you can avoid surgery and make a full recovery with your anatomy intact. Numbness signals nerve damage and pain demonstrates that the nerve is sensitive and in a healing state. Only experiencing pain means your body has been able to heal whatever neurological damage is being caused by the compression.

I have ruptured discs in my neck and back, and from my experience no matter which route you go you are gonna have to bear down and train core and legs (without weights) for ~2 hours everyday and include lots of walking to get back to full health.

Take this opportunity to heal before things get worse and you wind up in a deeper hole. You have to DIG to get yourself out ! Really, get with the best PT you can and GO HARD !


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## 890th (Apr 11, 2009)

Been there & through multiple surgeries. Go easy and controlled with the PT program you are assigned. Agree that core and flexibility work are critical. Walking also helps greatly. Do not go hard until you are cleared to do do. Depending on your situation and level of herniation you can prompt nerve damage if you aren't careful. Then you'll have a real permanent situation to deal with. Agree surgery s/b avoided at all costs..very good advice above but I'd add one thing:

Stop getting adjusted if you have 3 herniated discs:nono:


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## drdre (Dec 15, 2005)

I use these things called gravity boots. You put them on and hang upside down from your feet. They straighten and decompress your back. For me anyway absolutely fantastic. 

I also sit on a workout ball at work. yoga. single leg lunges. Anything to straighten your core and fix posture issues.

I wish you luck. Nothing as awful as that. Well, pylon fracture is no fun either.


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## r99 (Aug 18, 2006)

*The most important piece of advice in this thread*

Read this book: Amazon.com: Low Back Disorders: Evidence-Based Prevention and Rehabilitation (9780736042413): Stuart McGill: Books

A few facts about disc problems.

A herniated disc is caused by a combination of the following:
The spine being in a state of flexion for too long a period of time. (sitting for too long)
The spine being flexed to many times. (bending over to many times)
The spine being under too much load. (moving heavy stuff around)
Especially the spine being *under load while in a state of flexion*. For example bending over at your back to pick something very heavy off the floor.

Think of the discs in your back as being able to handle some amount of the stresses above before they herniate. Every time you bend down to pick something up with bad form you damage your discs slightly. Discs heal very slowly because they have no blood supply.

At the age of 23 you did something wrong over a period of time to cause your discs to herniate. You need to identify what that is and stop it. You also need to develop an understanding for how the back works to PREVENT future injury and allow your back to heal. *Back Injuries are generally not acute injuries they are an accumulation of stress over a period of time. *

This book is written by a world expert in bio mechanics. It will teach you so much that I do not have the expertise or the time to post in a form. It will not solve your immediate problems, but it likely stop you from making mistakes that will make the problem worse in the short term.

For links to interviews with the author go to BackFitPro.com. It will show you the quality of his thinking and explain some of his key ideas.

I am not a doctor. I have dealt with a back injury (minor compared to yours.)
I have no affiliation with the author of this book.

If you are not convinced feel free to PM me

P.S.

Do not stretch your back. If you have a disc problem this will probably just make it worse.


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks for the posts guys I really do appreciate it. My family and friends don't seem to understand the pain that comes with this injury and I'm constantly being told to suck it up. 

I talked to a Surgeon yesterday, highly recommended by the doctors I'm currently working with. He's pretty confident that surgery is going to be the only permanent fix with my situation. And he actually found another herniation/buldge in another lumbar disc in my MRI pictures, so its up to 4 now. Only one of them is causing the pain though. 

I've been taking it easy this whole week, the most I did was go for a mile long hike, the pain has gotten a little less intense just this morning. 

A little more past history about me, at 16-19 I was pretty overweight, something like 230 pounds at about 22% body fat. And when I was 18-19 I was doing Auto-detailing, so I was constantly bending over for long periods of time with a buffer in hand to polish lower portions of vehicles. Along with running around tile floors in a deli for 8 hours a day, I'm sure that has some kind of play on my issues now. I'm down 11% body fat now but I'm still a big boy at 195 pounds.

Really guys, I do appreciate it, you are helping me to stay sane.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

Good to hear Sean!
If its microdiscectomy that your surgeon is recommending, and if thats what you decide to do, it * should* feel like a miracle. But please be diligent in your rehab and be sure your doc sends you to the most intense sports-oriented facility around. You need to get and stay rocked up diesel in the core and legs to make things right over the long term especially if you want to ride hard. I went through the same thing and more, so what I am saying is what I would tell myself if I could go back in time 5 years.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

I had the same problem as you, brought on by a back injury I sustained in college. The reason that you are feeling pain in your ass and down your leg is because your *sciatic *nerve is being irritated.

I had the same problems, except mine appeared after I graduated and started sitting more (for work.)

If you are anything like me, you don't need surgery. Yet. You just need to let yourself heal (with NSAIDs, ice, heat, stretching, and rest.) After healing, you can begin the core strengthening.

Realistically your problem wasn't a one-time thing, and surgery may be a temporary fix. You don't want to have surgery now and 5 years down the line run into the same set of problems.

Good luck. If you don't already have a job with health coverage, now is the time to get one.


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## ridnmniac (Jul 17, 2009)

Bikram's Hatha Yoga will do wonders for your back and the rest of your body for tht matter. Avoid the pills and surgery as much as possible. Bikram's yoga is one of the most intense exercises I have every done. Your heart will be pounding like you have been climbing a steep hill for several miles and you will be sweating twice as much all without leaving your towel space. This yoga was designed to strentghen and heal the back and well as improve cardio. It's living hell while you are in the class (they keep it 105 deg. and kinda humid) but when it is done you feel amazing.
I don't own or teach Bikram's yoga, I'm just an avid participant, passoinate about what it has done for me.


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

ridnmniac said:


> Bikram's Hatha Yoga will do wonders for your back and the rest of your body for tht matter. Avoid the pills and surgery as much as possible. Bikram's yoga is one of the most intense exercises I have every done. Your heart will be pounding like you have been climbing a steep hill for several miles and you will be sweating twice as much all without leaving your towel space. This yoga was designed to strentghen and heal the back and well as improve cardio. It's living hell while you are in the class (they keep it 105 deg. and kinda humid) but when it is done you feel amazing.
> I don't own or teach Bikram's yoga, I'm just an avid participant, passoinate about what it has done for me.


Tried a hot yoga class for a week, really liked it but I was in to much pain at the time to do anything to much. Definitely on my list of things to do when I'm able to.

Side note, had P.T this morning, he set my hips in place, and when I got home I did some planking, bridging, bird dogs, and a few other core exercises until failure, and I've got to say my back/leg is feeling a lot better. I wasn't working my core hard enough before, I'm going to keep working on it and see what happens. But it's looking like surgery is going to be put on the back burner again.

Thanks guys :thumbsup:


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## Josie7 (Feb 27, 2012)

Healing Back Pain: The Mind/Body Connection by John Sarno..

That book saved my life..

Its been 7-8 years since I read it and have not had any major issues since..

You have to be ready for it though, its not your typical western medicine type of book..


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## newking (Nov 6, 2007)

here is what worked for me (chronic back pain / spasms / sciattica)
Ugly MRI with slight ruptures etc...........

1. Bike Fit
2. Pilates 2x week to stretch and strengthen
3. Lose 10 lbs
4. Do 25 Cobra stretches every day
5. Quit the chiropractor
6 Got a kettler medic back trainer and get on it every day:

Back Exercise Equipment - Kettler Medic Back Trainer - Premium Back Extension Machine - DISCONTINUED


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## r99 (Aug 18, 2006)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Tried a hot yoga class for a week, really liked it but I was in to much pain at the time to do anything to much. Definitely on my list of things to do when I'm able to.
> 
> Thanks guys :thumbsup:


Stretching your back is a BAD idea and yoga is big on stretching the back. Two pieces of evidence.

1. Gymnasts with their extremely flexible backs are known to have tons of back problems. 
2.You mentioned that your problems were probably due to bending your back while working. DO not go into some hot room and do more of the same thing that caused the problem in the first place.

There are some good things about Yoga. I think the flexibility of the hips is extremely important and Yoga may help that. Flexible hips can improve posture and lead to you bending at the hips rather than the back the back. That is a good thing.

The bottom line is the body is complex. You do not want to streach without a reason why.



HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Side note, had P.T this morning, he set my hips in place, and when I got home I did some planking, bridging, bird dogs, and a few other core exercises until failure, and I've got to say my back/leg is feeling a lot better. I wasn't working my core hard enough before, I'm going to keep working on it and see what happens. But it's looking like surgery is going to be put on the back burner again.
> 
> Thanks guys :thumbsup:


The goal of the core muscles is to stabilize the spine and keep it in a neutral position. You really should focus on endurance not strength. The core needs the endurance to keep the spine in an neutral position under load for periods of time, but it does not need a ton of strength.

Bird dogs planks are good core choices. Make sure you are always using perfect form.

I am writing this because I hate to see someone make all the same mistakes I did. There is a descent academic understanding of what causes disc problems. You are a fool to not read it and understand it. A lot of this research has been done in the last fifteen years and not all doctors or physical therapists have read it.


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## r99 (Aug 18, 2006)

newking said:


> here is what worked for me (chronic back pain / spasms / sciattica)
> 
> 4. Do 25 Cobra stretches every day


This is terrible advice. Just because it works for you does not mean it is a good idea.

Experiments in the lab on live human and cadaver spines have shown that flexion followed by extension of the spine is extremely good at causing disc herniations.

It amazes me that people do and believe this stuff when there is solid evidence to show that it is very damaging.


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

I just turned 54. Back in '82, I badly herniated L5-S1. I couldn't even drive for more than 15 minutes at a time. Pain all the way down to my calf. I wasn't into cycling at that time though. Doctors told me I would be stuck with this problem forever. I ran a marathon a few years after that. Yes, it sometimes comes back and I have painful bouts that last a few weeks. Then, during a mtb race in '98, got hit by another rider which sent me flying over the bars and I landed straight on my head. Serious blow to C5-C6 and C7. Numbness in my left arm, more in my thumb and index fingers. I have tried many things and a few have seemed to help me alot: I bought an INVERTRAC, spent about 5 to 10 minutes a day hanging up-side-down. Feels great every time I do this. I've also been wearing a motocross type belt while driving long distances, to minimize the effect of slouching in a sitting position. 2 years ago, got Parsonage-Turner Syndrome (WTF????) in my left shoulder. I thought I would die from the pain, seriously. This one needed "artificial help" just to deal with the pain. Doctors told me it could take 5 years to heal from that one. Yeah... right... It is still a (persistent) problem, but I have adjusted to it. My chiropractor has helped a bit, so has my osteopath. They both told me the same thing in different ways: your body and your mind will adjust/adapt to things like this after a while. I've been riding a singlespeed bike since then and I think it has helped me strengthened my core. 

I felt seriously depressed after events like this. But my desire to get better and ride my bike got me out of it. I am not pain-free by any means, but the intense pleasure I get when riding my bike puts a smile on my face every time and I forget about the pain. 

Good luck, and hang in there, you're still young. 

Johnnydrz


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## winchboy (May 2, 2006)

No herniated disk but compressed and fractured 3 discs in my lower back 20 years ago. For 2 years I thought I would be on PT and Vicoden the rest of my life. Went through 2 different Physical Ttherapy providers and no help. I never met a Chiropractor that couldn't fix me up with 2 or 3 weekly visits for a few months then weekly tune ups for ever, bunch of Quacks and a good risk of them doing more damage with a herniated disk. 
I finally got into the Sutter Hospital Occupational Therepy program. My Osteopath there was the luck of the draw I guess. She checked out a pile of X rays, checked me out on the table and made a small adjustment to my back and said every one is treating you for a compression injury and you have one, but the problem is you also had a twist in your spine. I went into the PT program there after her adjustment and imeadeatly began to feel better, it took a few months but I seldom ever have any more back problems unless I lift and twist or do something equilly stupid. I did my core exercises for a couple years but have quit and been very well off for years. She ( the osteopath ) flat out said If a chiropractor can't correct your problem in a couple visits GET OUT OF THERE!!


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## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

She&I has good advice. Only other thing I'd add is get into the pool. Chest wading, wide step stretching etc when sore really helps (not swimming as such). Once inflammation dies down you can start core strengthening.


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## andyb_aka_shredward (Feb 14, 2010)

I don't know anything about your exact medical history, but wanted to drop a couple bits of advice that have given me great results while I was dealing with back pain (past tense, it's no longer an issue for me).

First off, don't discount the very real impact that stress can have on your back. Look into the books by Dr. John Sarno. His stuff has had a major impact on countless lives-people who were feeling hopeless, suffering with back pain. And the amazing thing is that many people have had incredible results by simply buying into the fact that their pain could be the result of stress. His books are widely available and very quick reads. People swear by this guy, including myself. Absolutely try reading his stuff before you try surgery. You have nothing to lose by reading a couple books by him and everything to gain if you get the results that millions have got through his work. Surgery isn't going anywhere, so try everything you can before you go under the knife.

Amazon.com: John E. Sarno: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle

Another thing that helped me immensely was yoga. If you're in considerable pain, this could be something you look into down the road. I absolutely love yoga (and it will help your riding too, I promise). It strengthens every part of your body, especially the core. And hamstring flexibility and length can be very important to back problems.

Good luck. You're too young to be suffering like this, so you have my sympathies.

Andy
mtshredward.com


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## Josie7 (Feb 27, 2012)

andyb_aka_shredward said:


> I don't know anything about your exact medical history, but wanted to drop a couple bits of advice that have given me great results while I was dealing with back pain (past tense, it's no longer an issue for me).
> 
> First off, don't discount the very real impact that stress can have on your back. Look into the books by Dr. John Sarno. His stuff has had a major impact on countless lives-people who were feeling hopeless, suffering with back pain. And the amazing thing is that many people have had incredible results by simply buying into the fact that their pain could be the result of stress. His books are widely available and very quick reads. People swear by this guy, including myself. Absolutely try reading his stuff before you try surgery. You have nothing to lose by reading a couple books by him and everything to gain if you get the results that millions have got through his work. Surgery isn't going anywhere, so try everything you can before you go under the knife.
> 
> ...


Amen to that.. i said it earlier, but Sarno's book saved my life..

The basic idea is that stress is the root, yes, you may have MRI's and stuff saying your back is jacked up, but guess what, so does everyone else, disc degenerate and bulge all the time and the back pain phenomenom is an American problem.. there is no back pain epidemic in other countries..

Spend 3 hours, read the book, give it a shot.. it worked for me and here is what I do today (at 43), 7 years after I thought I might have to give up mtn biking..


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## andyb_aka_shredward (Feb 14, 2010)

Josie7 said:


> Amen to that.. i said it earlier, but Sarno's book saved my life..
> 
> The basic idea is that stress is the root, yes, you may have MRI's and stuff saying your back is jacked up, but guess what, so does everyone else, disc degenerate and bulge all the time and the back pain phenomenom is an American problem.. there is no back pain epidemic in other countries..
> 
> Spend 3 hours, read the book, give it a shot.. it worked for me and here is what I do today (at 43), 7 years after I thought I might have to give up mtn biking..


So glad to have the back-up, Josie7. I scanned the replies to see if anyone had mentioned Sarno and must have missed your post. Sweet pic. That's the launch of someone saying FU to back pain...or for that matter, not thinking about back pain at all because it's a thing of the past.

Andy
mtshredward.com


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## Josie7 (Feb 27, 2012)

andyb_aka_shredward said:


> So glad to have the back-up, Josie7. I scanned the replies to see if anyone had mentioned Sarno and must have missed your post. Sweet pic. That's the launch of someone saying FU to back pain...or for that matter, not thinking about back pain at all because it's a thing of the past.
> 
> Andy
> mtshredward.com


I told back pain to F*** off... its like an addiction, but when you kick its A$$ its goes forever..


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## Josie7 (Feb 27, 2012)

andyb_aka_shredward said:


> So glad to have the back-up, Josie7. I scanned the replies to see if anyone had mentioned Sarno and must have missed your post. Sweet pic. That's the launch of someone saying FU to back pain...or for that matter, not thinking about back pain at all because it's a thing of the past.
> 
> Andy
> mtshredward.com


I hope we can more people to recognize the root of back pain.. I really am amazed at the fact that once I made the connection to the stress in my life and back pain, that I was able to reverse it.. I don't know if John Sarno gets the props he deserves, but I am totally amazed by the transformation that happened by reading his book..


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Drink lots of water, that helps, rather than drugs consider hypnotherapy, works very well with pain.


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm going to buy the book when I leave the house in a few minutes. There's a weird series of events I didn't think about until Andy pm'd me. 

I won't go into detail, but something else I noticed is that the past 2 days I got back into the gym. Did some core work, and the usual arms/chest/w,e workouts. And than spent 40 minutes on the stationary bike. For about an hour after I finished my work out, the pain was 100% gone, but as soon as I got home and changed. The spasms returned fully. 

I'm so confused at this point lol


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## andyb_aka_shredward (Feb 14, 2010)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> I'm going to buy the book when I leave the house in a few minutes. There's a weird series of events I didn't think about until Andy pm'd me.
> 
> I won't go into detail, but something else I noticed is that the past 2 days I got back into the gym. Did some core work, and the usual arms/chest/w,e workouts. And than spent 40 minutes on the stationary bike. For about an hour after I finished my work out, the pain was 100% gone, but as soon as I got home and changed. The spasms returned fully.
> 
> I'm so confused at this point lol


Well, if it actually is stress, that could make total sense. Physical activity can be a major reliever of stress. It gets your mind off things and increases endorphines and serotonin levels (which is why physical activity is one of the main things therapists recommend to depression patients), especially the biking stuff, since aerobic stuff seems to produce the most serotonin. Obviously back pain is a very complicated thing (which still baffles doctors), so who knows exactly what it is. But tons of people have found that dealing with stress better did the trick, so that would be great if in your case it actually was stress related, and you got it solved without surgery.

Andy


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## TallChris (Oct 16, 2008)

If you're looking for experience, I can only share my own.

+1 for some mild yoga exercises and core strengthening without weights. I had to go light at first. My shortcomings include overdoing things and rushing back in too soon after injury. The experience of repeated injury has taught me the shortest way back to health is to give my body adequate time to heal and make a progressive return. In the meantime, I got to learn all sorts of things like how to strengthen my psoas muscles, do planks, use foam rollers, etc.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> I'm going to buy the book when I leave the house in a few minutes. There's a weird series of events I didn't think about until Andy pm'd me.
> 
> I won't go into detail, but something else I noticed is that the past 2 days I got back into the gym. Did some core work, and the usual arms/chest/w,e workouts. And than spent 40 minutes on the stationary bike. For about an hour after I finished my work out, the pain was 100% gone, but as soon as I got home and changed. The spasms returned fully.
> 
> I'm so confused at this point lol


Pull-ups are a great upper body excercise that is fantastic for your lower back, so are push-ups with your feet on a small excercise ball. Any type of bicep curl or arm isolation is a waste of time IME.

Keep up the hard work and positivity, those back spasms will be gone with training for sure just do 1 to 2 hours of core/leg work per day and STRETCH your brains out. Also a big +1 for swimming or treading water.
:thumbsup:


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## r99 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Real advice*

This is an exert from an interview with a will known trainer (Eric Cressey) that has worked with lots of athletes including Olympians. It does a better job of summarizing what I have been trying to explain. This is based on real academic research (see link at bottom).

8. Recognize that *lumbar spine range-of-motion is positively correlated with injury risk*.

By now, you've probably already read several articles at T NATION that espouse the benefits of training the core for stability and not mobility. If you haven't, take a look at the following:

High-Performance Core Training
Real "Core" Exercise
Anterior Core Training
Complete Core Training

The premise is pretty simple: you want to move predominantly at your hips and thoracic spine, and while a small amount of movement at the lumbar segments is normal, you don't want to encourage extra motion there.

As I noted above, there are specific situations that call for individualized mobilization protocols at the lumbar spine, but in terms of what you can accomplish with your own training, the general principles of "mobilize thoracic spine and hips, stabilize lumbar spine" apply.

Here's where it gets interesting. The American Medical Association (AMA) still uses lumbar spine range of motion as the qualifying criterion for allowing lower back pain patients to return to work. In other words, you needed to attain a certain amount of gross lumbar spine rotational range-of-motion to be considered "safe" to return to work.

Surprisingly, as Parks, Crichton, Goldford, and *McGill observed in the discussion of their 2003 study (5), there isn't a single study out there that shows the lumbar spine range of motion is correlated with having a healthy back; in fact, the opposite is true!*

Those with high lumbar spine ROM and power are more likely to be injured, whereas those with better lumbar spine stabilizing endurance are the healthy ones. And, interestingly, there really isn't any way of knowing what an individual's original "normal" spine ROM was, so they have to assume that someone had "average" spine ROM.

Yes, that study from the world's premier spine researchers was published just over six years ago (meaning that the data was probably collected at least seven years ago). Meanwhile, the AMA hasn't caught on, and chances are many doctors haven't, either, as this has been the "standard" for decades (28 years, actually, to my knowledge). Why?

Well, for starters, lawyers like solid numbers to which they can adhere to in court. When you have a collection of problems that go undiagnosed in 85% of cases, and a certain percentage of the population who will lie about back pain to get out of work or win a lawsuit, this number becomes even more important.

Find the whole article here:

T NATION | Lower Back Savers


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

r99 said:


> Surprisingly, as Parks, Crichton, Goldford, and *McGill observed in the discussion of their 2003 study (5), there isn't a single study out there that shows the lumbar spine range of motion is correlated with having a healthy back; in fact, the opposite is true!*
> 
> Those with high lumbar spine ROM and power are more likely to be injured, whereas those with better lumbar spine stabilizing endurance are the healthy ones.


Did you read the study? It only had 18 test subjects (nearly statistically insignificant) and all they were able to conclude that "[t]he relation between lumbar range of motion measures and functional ability is weak or nonexistent."

They never said "the opposite is true." The point of the study was to say that using ROM to determine a worker's ability to function is not a good test. It's here if you want to read it:

A comparison of lumbar range of motion... [Spine (Phila Pa 1976). 2003] - PubMed - NCBI

Additionally, the second paragraph quoted above is lacking any kind of statistical credibility.

While I agree with your sentiment, to an extent, it is a far more complicated issue than you are giving credit for. The article you linked to is a bit sensationalist, and shouldn't be believed verbatim.

The take-home is that spinal flexibility is not the kind of flexibility someone with back pain should be trying to work on. They should work on hip, pelvic, psosas, etc. flexibility and stability, with core strengthening to support the back.


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## r99 (Aug 18, 2006)

jtmartino said:


> Did you read the study? It only had 18 test subjects (nearly statistically insignificant) and all they were able to conclude that "[t]he relation between lumbar range of motion measures and functional ability is weak or nonexistent."
> 
> They never said "the opposite is true." The point of the study was to say that using ROM to determine a worker's ability to function is not a good test. It's here if you want to read it:
> 
> ...


You are absolutely right. The author did not do a great job of siting Mcgill's most convincing research and the topic is WAY more complex than that little blurb infers. My goal was to post an accessible summary of the fact that you do not want to aggressively work on spinal flexibility.


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks again for the support. I've made a little progress over the weekend. I'm having a second cortisone injection tomorrow morning, and I'm giving it two more weeks of P.T and light gym activity. I'm in the process of making an appointment with another Surgeon from Columbia Pres in NYC. If in two weeks time there's no signs of letting up, I'm planning to pull the trigger on surgery, depending on what the doctor says of course. 

My mind is finally clearing up, and I'm coming out of the slump I've been in. 

Really can't thank you all enough, it really does mean a lot. :cornut:


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## LONRGR (Jan 24, 2012)

I can relate- was in a car accident on the interstate. Lady spun, crossed 3 lanes and hit me- kept the truck on all 4 wheels but it was not easy. hit the guard rail, she hit me again- bottom line is it sucked. 

fractured vertebrae in neck, 3 herniated/ bulged disks out of work for 2 YEARS 

keep a cool head and let your body heal. I just started riding again after 7 years. (got in a hell of a lot of surfing though (longboards rock!)) Dont rush it. I can tell you for me, I was always comfortable on my bike. (not when I was on the ground in agony)- but even when it was stiff or sore, I could pull out the bike; sit on the seat and grab the bars and I swear I felt "relaxed". I did not ride though-

keep a positive attitude. "You are snared by the words of your mouth." Keep it positive.

L.R. :thumbsup:


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## moldau94 (Aug 16, 2009)

Sean, good luck with the nerve block tomorrow, and I hope that you're feeling better, both mentally and physically. I know what you're going through, and it's not easy to remain positive.

I'm in my late 30s now and have had back problems for the better part of 15 years. I've gone through several herniated discs, including both lumbar and cervical. I've been through just about every treatment possible with the exception of going to a chiropractor, which I just won't do. 

I also read Sarno, and agree that your attitude and mental outlook have a lot to do with your physical health. I'm glad that people here found success with Sarno, but it just didn't do it for me. I was getting worse, and of course I was off the bike and my mental outlook suffered in conjunction with my physical health, and it was a severe downward spiral. 

I did the best I could to avoid surgery, but when I could no longer walk and had to piss in a bottle because i couldn't get out of bed, that was the last straw. My case was severe enough to have an immediate diskectomy and laminotomy at L4/L5. People say to avoid surgery at all costs, but I have to disagree in my own case. The surgery nearly removed all pain, and I was walking the next day (while still in the hospital). 

I took 6 weeks off work to recover (bed rest, most of the time), and I admit that it was a tough go for those 6 weeks. After that was PT twice a week for months, and I was off the bike for 6 months. 

That was a year ago. I'm now back on the dirt, although I'm going to get a plush FS 29er to help smooth out the bumps on the ride. I still get flare ups from time to time if I sit for too long. I ice almost every night, and have just learned how to move correctly

You've got a lot of people rooting for you, as shown by the 60+ responses to your thread. Consider these people your virtual support group, and as those who can relate or at least sympathize with your situation. There's no quick fix to back pain, and it will take some time.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

When none of the standard therapies work on pain, it may indicate the back is not the cause. Sometimes it can be the body trying to protect an area from something that is being anatomically confused with the back. Do some reading on myotherapy and try to locate a good myotherapist in your area. The treatments are simple and not traumatic. If effective, you will know quickly and that is much better than ongoing misery or surgery. My background is in traditional medicine, so this is not my answer for anything and everything and sorry if it has been mentioned somewhere else in here.


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## Trail Wizard (Aug 16, 2011)

Before considering surgery, you should pick up _Pain Free_, by Pete Egoscue. Barnes & Noble typically keeps it in stock. Read through the entire book, not just the section about the back, and then give the exercises (E-cises) a try.
Amazon.com: Pain Free: A Revolutionary Method for Stopping Chronic Pain (9780553379884): Pete Egoscue, Roger Gittines: Books

Another book that I've found beneficial is _The Multifidus Back Pain Solution_, by Jim Johnson. Very simple exercises to strengthen small, lesser known, but highly important muscles along the spine.
Amazon.com: The Multifidus Back Pain Solution: Simple Exercises That Target the Muscles That Count (9781572242784): Jim Johnson: Books


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## Bethany1 (Jan 18, 2012)

Hang in there. Back pain takes a long time to heal up and be prepared for set-backs. One step forward, two steps back. There's nothing worse than being in the fetal position on the floor unable to move.

Docs figured I'd hurt my back when I had my first gran mal seizure 15 years ago. I fell straight back into the bathroom and somehow managed to fall between the sink and toilet. I'm just grateful I didn't hit either one. I've had several seizures over the years (usually when I switch meds) and I'm sure they haven't helped.

I know people knock chiropractors, but mine has been a miracle worker as he discovered that my left hip rotates toward the front causing back pain. The muscles seize up trying to keep it from rotating. I have really tight thigh and hamstring muscles and the tension between the two set off the hip rotation. Stretching has made a huge difference.

I have tried a little Yoga and that helps, but I have to take it really easy and not all poses are really back friendly. I haven't taken a class, just tried a few poses and watched my flexibility while trying some.

PT has helped in strengthening my lower back as well. 

Cycling helps me because it stretches my back out. I can't make it past a mile walking or my back screams in pain but I can ride 10-20 miles and be pain free on my Fargo. 

My biggest weakness is taking care of my bikes. Getting one up on the stand, cleaning it, changing tires, tinkering and putting one up on the bike rack takes a toll on my back but I love doing it.

My son and I had a great time taking apart his Rockhopper and putting drop bars on it just to see if we could. You can, but it's not pretty and makes the front part of the bike unstable. It was great mother/son bonding time but I'm paying for it today. He gets to put his bike back together when he gets home.

It's also about finding balance. If it hurts, stop or ease up and try again another day. The hardest part is asking for help and I'm sure it's worse for guys. I've had to make adjustments in my daily life but it helps. I hate when people tell to you suck it up, but just push on. You are on your time schedule and not theirs.

Good luck and take it easy. You will get better.


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## Trail Wizard (Aug 16, 2011)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Turns out I herniated three discs somehow, doesn't really matter how at this point.


I think it matters a whole lot at this point. There's a reason why the discs herniated, and if you don't find out why, and address that, then recovery could take a very long time, if ever. Even if you do go the surgery route, problems could persist in the future, or manifest themselves in other body parts if the root of the dysfunction is not identified. The Alexander Technique, Feldenkrais, Hanna Somatics, Craig Williamson's work, they all deal with the field of self use, and how mis-use can lead to physical problems. 
Sean, your physical labor in the past may have set up a lot of musculo-skeletal asymmetry that can lead to ongoing problems if they're not identified. Detailing cars can put a lot of strain on the shoulder and neck, which can start a chain reaction of problems down the skeletal line. Crouching in awkward positions can do the same for the core and pelvic alignment, which can wreak havoc on the back and elsewhere.

After going through my collection of books I've accumulated over the years, I would also recommend to anyone with musculo-skeletal pain to seek out these books:

_Somatics_ by Thomas Hanna
Amazon.com: Somatics: Reawakening The Mind's Control Of Movement, Flexibility, And Health (9780738209579): Thomas Hanna: Books

_Muscular Re-Training for Pain-Free Living_ by Craig Williamson
Amazon.com: Muscular Retraining for Pain-Free Living (9781590303672): Craig Williamson: Books

_How You Stand, How You Move, How You Live_ by Missy Vineyard
Amazon.com: How You Stand, How You Move, How You Live: Learning the Alexander Technique to Explore Your Mind-Body Connection and Achieve Self-Mastery (9781600940064): Missy Vineyard: Books

Not sure if this pertains to your situation, Sean, but this video is very informative:
Piriformis Syndrome, Low Back Pain, Sciatica - Sock Doc - YouTube

All of The Sock Doc's videos are very informative, even if most pertain to common running injuries:
TheSockDoc - YouTube

Speaking of the psoas, if you know of a really good massage therapist or myofascial release practitioner, have them check your psoas. If one has more tension than the other, that might be the source of a lot of back pain and pelvic misalignment. Psoas release can do wonders, so too can addressing trigger points in the hamstrings and glutes, by manual release. If you have trigger points, then stretching is not recommended until they're released. The Sock Doc opposes most stretching, as he says it does more harm than good. His argument can be found here:
Stretching Is Dangerous!: Don't Stretch For Better Health | Sock-Doc

I seem to recall reading years ago, or hearing from a former teammate of his, that Thomas Frischknecht never stretched. I'm just using him as an example of someone who had great success and didn't need to stretch.
For those who are injured though, manual myofascial release and trigger point release, and muscular strengthening and stabilization is the route that should be taken, as opposed to simply stretching, which could do more harm than good.

I agree with The Sock Doc for the most part, _but_ it's because most people tend to be stretching wrong. There's a really great book called _The Permanent Pain Cure_ by Ming Chew, that uses incorporates Sir Charles Sherrington's second law, which pertains to reciprocal inhibition. Muscles groups have antagonists. Biceps/triceps, quads/hamstrings, hip flexors/glutes. If your goal is to relax and lengthen one, then you must contract its antagonist while in the special stretch. Much of Ming Chew's methodology is based upon the research of his teacher, osteopath Guy Voyer.
The special stretches are very elaborate and tricky to achieve, as there are many steps involved, but I've found them to be effective.

Amazon.com: The Permanent Pain Cure: The Breakthrough Way to Heal Your Muscle and Joint Pain for Good (PB) (9780071627139): Ming Chew, Stephanie Golden: Books


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

To the original poster: Don't sweat it. Last April my girlfriend ended up in the hospital with 2 herninated discs. She was bed ridden for a couple weeks and she went through months of epidermal shots, pain meds and nothing helped. 

Eventually she stopped the epidermal shots and the pain meds and started exercising. That was a year ago and she's stronger than she was before. We saw a bunch of doctors and the last one said to get off the meds and go exercise. Keeping your core strong will support your spine. Her back still hurts on occasion but its about 90% better. She was back on skis and is still active.

Off all the people I've talked to with this issue most say to avoid surgery and keep yourself in shape and your back will heal.


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## Josie7 (Feb 27, 2012)

VTSession said:


> To the original poster: Don't sweat it. Last April my girlfriend ended up in the hospital with 2 herninated discs. She was bed ridden for a couple weeks and she went through months of epidermal shots, pain meds and nothing helped.
> 
> Eventually she stopped the epidermal shots and the pain meds and started exercising. That was a year ago and she's stronger than she was before. We saw a bunch of doctors and the last one said to get off the meds and go exercise. Keeping your core strong will support your spine. Her back still hurts on occasion but its about 90% better. She was back on skis and is still active.
> 
> Off all the people I've talked to with this issue most say to avoid surgery and keep yourself in shape and your back will heal.


Arggg.. we ALL have herniated and bulging discs, well, at least most of us.. the body degenerates over time, its natural and normal and typically not the root of pain..


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## RoyFokker (Apr 21, 2010)

Back pain is not a normal aspect of aging as modern allopathic medicine leads us to believe or structurally related to your spinal discs in most cases.

It is usually a myofascial and posture issue that builds over time, from chronic bad posture, poor kinesthetic use of your body or from trauma like impacts, falls which stress the soft tissue into knots. Those knots are often what actually pull the discs. I would advise looking into trigger point therapy(to deal with myofascial knots in your muscle fibers)) and the Gokhale method(to improve posture and your use of your body). You can find info and books on these modalities(you often don't even have to pay your local library will likely carry it):
Trigger Point Therapy Workbook; Your Self-Treatment Guide for Pain Relief
Gokhale Method Institute |
Another aspect is often related to decreased flexibility in other areas like the hip which end up being compensated for by the back. This can be improved with various yoga postures(asanas).

Likely you will think what I wrote is bs, but ask yourself this, maybe a few months back you were not 100% fine, but you were coping somehow and still physically active. What, did your discs just expired in a few months time? Try not to believe in conventional doctors and their conventional orthodoxy. I don't see them helping people around me. I just see them allowing people to live with back pain for decades until they die, to cope with diabetes by pills or insulin shots till they die, etc. They don't have the answers, don't let the lack of solutions they offer demoralize or close your mind to other options that are far more promising and less drastic.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

RoyFokker said:


> Back pain is not a normal aspect of aging as modern allopathic medicine leads us to believe or structurally related to your spinal discs in most cases.
> 
> It is usually a myofascial and posture issue that builds over time, from chronic bad posture, poor kinesthetic use of your body or from trauma like impacts, falls which stress the soft tissue into knots. Those knots are often what actually pull the discs. I would advise looking into trigger point therapy(to deal with myofascial knots in your muscle fibers)) and the Gokhale method(to improve posture and your use of your body). You can info and books on these modalities(you often don't even have to pay your local library will likely carry it):
> Trigger Point Therapy Workbook; Your Self-Treatment Guide for Pain Relief
> ...


While your post may contain good information, some of which has been clearly stated elsewhere in this thread albeit in different words, your assertion that the established medical profession has some sick interest in ignoring or exploiting an individual or a population's health issues is a load of total ****.

You should be ashamed of yourself for having even a vaguely sound understanding of the human body and yet dismissing thousands of years of experimental science, a commitment to healing and a standard of professional honour sadly beyond the capacity of your senseless conscience, Fokker


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## Josie7 (Feb 27, 2012)

Ridnparadise said:


> While your post may contain good information, some of which has been clearly stated elsewhere in this thread albeit in different words, your assertion that the established medical profession has some sick interest in ignoring or exploiting an individual or a population's health issues is a load of total ****.
> 
> You should be ashamed of yourself for having even a vaguely sound understanding of the human body and yet dismissing thousands of years of experimental science, a commitment to healing and a standard of professional honour sadly beyond the capacity of your senseless conscience, Fokker


I agree with him though.. maybe you don't consider chiro's medical, but in my experiences they never did anything to fix the root of the problem.. 7 years after last chiro visit and at 43 I have never been better... and I know what my MRI "says"..


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## RoyFokker (Apr 21, 2010)

Ridnparadise, read more, ride less. So many times on mtb and cycling forums people say things like to get a full suspension or recumbent, a technical fix, when someone says their back, hip or whatever gets worse and worse, because of their beliefs created by medical orthodoxy, which state the body is supposed to break down when you get to 30+ years old. This young guy was only 23 when he was told his body inevitably broke down, and of course he is mentally exasperated at the prospect of a sedentary life! The medical system hardly gets at the root of chronic care problems. But it is very excellent for emergency care, I mean if I use a circular saw and chop off my fingers, provided I do things right on my part, they can sew it back. But for chronic care like this guy's back pain, I have never really seen a mainstream doctor really heal a person. People are taught to ignore that they never see their friends, family with bad backs, diabetes, high blood pressure ever get better under medical care, they just are helped to cope and adapt around it till death.

I know so many people that have had hip, arm, shoulder, knee, back surgeries and replacements that have failed and they still have the problems the surgery was supposed to correct.


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## Josie7 (Feb 27, 2012)

Ridnparadise said:


> While your post may contain good information, some of which has been clearly stated elsewhere in this thread albeit in different words, your assertion that the established medical profession has some sick interest in ignoring or exploiting an individual or a population's health issues is a load of total ****.
> 
> You should be ashamed of yourself for having even a vaguely sound understanding of the human body and yet dismissing thousands of years of experimental science, a commitment to healing and a standard of professional honour sadly beyond the capacity of your senseless conscience, Fokker


You are also assuming there are no corrupt people in the medical field... really?


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## Montana Rider (Aug 21, 2005)

Josie7 said:


> You are also assuming there are no corrupt people in the medical field... really?


America's pill-popping capital
Welcome to Kermit, W.Va. -- ground zero of the prescription drug epidemic

America's pill-popping capital - Drugs - Salon.com


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

RoyFokker said:


> Back pain is not a normal aspect of aging as modern allopathic medicine leads us to believe or structurally related to your spinal discs in most cases.
> 
> It is usually a myofascial and posture issue that builds over time, from chronic bad posture, poor kinesthetic use of your body or from trauma like impacts, falls which stress the soft tissue into knots. Those knots are often what actually pull the discs. I would advise looking into trigger point therapy(to deal with myofascial knots in your muscle fibers)) and the Gokhale method(to improve posture and your use of your body). You can find info and books on these modalities(you often don't even have to pay your local library will likely carry it):
> Trigger Point Therapy Workbook; Your Self-Treatment Guide for Pain Relief
> ...


I've been trying to approach this with the most open mind I can, nothing anybody has written here has went unread, and I really do appreciate the advice and support from everyone. My P.T at the moment has been doing trigger point releases, I've been getting massages, it's helped, but not a lot.

Yesterday I went to Columbia Pres in NYC, to see one of the Top 10 or 20 nuero surgeons in the country. I've had tunnel vision up until yesterday. I've been complaining about the herniations at L3-L4 and L4-L5, and I'm sure they still play a role. But the doc I saw yesterday said that he thinks the pain is more likely coming from the S1-L5, and L4-L5 degenerations. He was pretty much amazed how they were virtually gone at my young age, and all the other disc spacing kept fully intact.

He's ruled out surgery for now because he couldn't guarantee a positive outcome, but his opinion is I'll definitely be under the knife at some point in my life. I nearly cried in the office.

At the moment, I feel pretty good. The last epidural helped a lot, today was the first day I didn't have to take aleve in the morning. I started running again as well. I'm just going to live with it for the time being. I put on 20-25 pounds over the winter, I was lifting hard, it was intentional. It sucks but I'm going to drop 15 and see how my back feels at 180 pounds. Other than that, I don't know what the future holds, I'll just have to take it day by day.

Again many thanks for support and wishes, it really does help.


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## RoyFokker (Apr 21, 2010)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> ... My P.T at the moment has been doing trigger point releases, I've been getting massages, it's helped, but not a lot.
> 
> ...


How did the trigger point massage go? Physical therapists are a mixed bag... In the book The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook: Your Self-Treatment Guide for Pain Relief, the author, Clair Davies, who developed the technique says you should use supported fingers to probe them. When you find a trigger point that is serious, it should hurt intensely to just put sufficient pressure on it with your finger and you should aim for a seven in terms of pain out of a ten scale and keep constant pressure on it for a while to release the tense and knotted muscle fiber, and un-shorten it. If an area that is probed does not hurt, then it is not a trigger point.

I have known about trigger points for years but in early 2011, I had serious lower back pain and trigger points did not seem to help for a long time, but that was only because I could not find the trigger point area causing the "referred pain" in my lower back. Trigger points usually refer pain to somewhere else, since the whole skeletal-muscular system is interconnected, a shortened muscle somewhere could have a painful effect in a seemingly unconnected area of the body. I had to take a day off since the pain was so bad, I could not even sit, walk, sh1t or even sleep without huge discomfort, wincing or pain. Eventually I came to believe that the problem was in my psoas, which is actually not even located in my back, but in the front closer to the abdomen:








but I had trouble reaching the muscle till I read that it was an inch out from the belly button, and two inches down and to try to get at it for massage by placing a softball at that nexus and trying to lay all your weight on it like that. After I read and applied that info, I was able to relieve most the low back pain and return to work the next day.

Now(very recently) I have come to believe that the problem is not just my psoas, but my crappy hip flexibility, which creates patterns of compensation so I need to do yoga asanas to deal with that.

I am just telling you what worked for me since you are open to it, and since I don't know much of your specific situation and can only tell my story. If I did not know about trigger points or look elsewhere, maybe eventually I would have gotten progressively worse and worse and a doctor would have tried to pimp out pills or surgery to me.


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Ironically enough, The trigger points that he released where right where yours where. I also had a MRI done of my left hip at the same time of my back which revealed a strain in my Iliacus. I've been stretching those every day, whenever I get the change to. I was also diagnosed with snapping hip syndrome in both of my hips, which is the IT band snapping over the femur up towards the hip.

I just started adding these into my stretching routine as well, I can definitly feel my left hip is more 'locked up' than my right.

Hip Circles (prone) Exercise Guide and Video


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## slomo (Mar 28, 2004)

Here's my experience, just in case something in here can help.

Today I am 12 weeks post-op from a L5-S1 fusion and foraminotomy at L4.

The pain I had before surgery is gone. I have other pain now that I'm told is normal post-op but could last for months. So I'm not "pain free."

Yesterday was my 2nd bike ride since surgery, about 5 miles on the road. The doc said it might take a year until I have enough bone growth to hit the trails - but I will be able to again.

Surgery doesn't work for everyone. But then again surgery may be the answer for you. And it may not be the end of riding for you. Everyone is different. For me, after 12 years of pain and _many_ different types of treatments, I was ready.

I sincerely hope you find the right answer for you. Stay strong and try to practice patience. It can get better.


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## Trail Wizard (Aug 16, 2011)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Ironically enough, The trigger points that he released where right where yours where. I also had a MRI done of my left hip at the same time of my back which revealed a strain in my Iliacus. I've been stretching those every day, whenever I get the change to. I was also diagnosed with snapping hip syndrome in both of my hips, which is the IT band snapping over the femur up towards the hip.
> 
> I just started adding these into my stretching routine as well, I can definitly feel my left hip is more 'locked up' than my right.


Delaminating the adductors can do wonders as well. My left hamstring felt tight for a long time, then I went to town on trigger points in my left pectinius (especially) and the others. It wasn't my hamstring after all. Always work both sides for symmetry. The way I describe deactivating trigger points (or delaminating the tissues) to people, is imagine taking a fistful of dry spaghetti and dropping it in hot water briefly, pulling it out and tying that bundle together. In time, it all binds together, and is still together even after untying the bundle. To get the spaghetti to move freely, you have to grab and pinch the bundle and manually separate them until they're all moving freely and independently. If a muscle is dysfunctional, it's typically because there's fascia that's turning multiple muscle fibers and turning it into a singular mass that just doesn't operate well, and is certainly not supple. Now, I've never actually done the spaghetti drop to see if it binds together, but I'm just guessing it does. I'm sure it would bind if dipped in glue.

You can also have pain in your lower back if you have trigger points in your calf, soleus in particular. If you have tight calves, you might want to try addressing that as well. Not stretching, but trigger point release (or deep tissue massage).

Low Back Pain From Your Calf Muscle - Madrid Chiropractor explains how your calf could be the cause of your pain | JL Quiropráctico Madrid

Some tools that I've found to be handy, aside from my own hands, are the Footballer, block, and massage ball by TriggerPoint Therapy / TP Therapy:
Trigger Point Starter Set

The Tiger Tail:
Therapeutic Tools, Rolling Muscle Massagers, Trigger Point Therapy - Polar Fusion

The Stick (Sprinter model is stiffer and more effective IMO)
https://www.thestick.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SG-1900

Also, a really great tool is the Thera Cane, which I prop my calves on while the cane is standing on the two 4" legs, then rotate my calves in and out. Similar concept as the TP Therapy Footballer, but deeper.
Thera Cane

For myofascial and trigger point work on the thighs, the Quadroller by TP Therapy is great. It's like a foam roller, but more compact and more intense. Those are sold separately, but here's a kit that has a bunch of good stuff:
Hip and Lower Back Performance Kit
That kit might seem a bit pricey, but their products are very effective.

Lastly, I had IT band syndrome a couple of years ago, and Graston Technique did wonders on breaking up a lot of scar tissue / adhesions in my quads, hamstrings, and hip muscles. One of the most effective treatments for musculoskeletal dysfunction and pain due to scar tissue in the muscles.
Graston Technique | Simple Technology Improving Injury Treatment and Rehabilitation.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

RoyFokker said:


> Ridnparadise, read more, ride less. So many times on mtb and cycling forums people say things like to get a full suspension or recumbent, a technical fix, when someone says their back, hip or whatever gets worse and worse, because of their beliefs created by medical orthodoxy, which state the body is supposed to break down when you get to 30+ years old. This young guy was only 23 when he was told his body inevitably broke down, and of course he is mentally exasperated at the prospect of a sedentary life! The medical system hardly gets at the root of chronic care problems. But it is very excellent for emergency care, I mean if I use a circular saw and chop off my fingers, provided I do things right on my part, they can sew it back. But for chronic care like this guy's back pain, I have never really seen a mainstream doctor really heal a person. People are taught to ignore that they never see their friends, family with bad backs, diabetes, high blood pressure ever get better under medical care, they just are helped to cope and adapt around it till death.
> 
> I know so many people that have had hip, arm, shoulder, knee, back surgeries and replacements that have failed and they still have the problems the surgery was supposed to correct.


Go back 2 weeks - I read. I also learn, study and practice. Notice I already recommended an alternate approach to this young man's pain. Good medicine and good doctors dismiss no management option. I recommend all variations of alternate therapy for my patients and dismiss none other than those that claim the one cure. That is based on 29 years of post-grad practice, 24 years active membership of our national sports medicine association, past national team medical officer status and more hacked off fingers and unexplained back pains than you could believe, plus heaps of self-experience.

When you dismiss recognised medicine and replace it with prejudice, then I smell someone with a vested interest, maybe profit to be gained. I stand by what I said about your anti-medical stance - it sucks.

I also stand by what I said to this poor guy 2 weeks ago - bulging discs and surgery are neither the explanation, nor the cure. What you have here are a bunch of conservative treatment options, all with merit and all better than chronic pain, disability, loss of lifestyle and maybe worse (prescription drug addiction included).

The summarised message is that the OP needs to take control of his pain and not let it rule his life. Sometimes when it hurts to do nothing then the best thing to do is everything.

When you have to pay to see therapists all the time to control your pain, then you don't have your life. Many chronic back pains reduce and disappear with time and physical activity. That costs nothing and gains more than any other therapy. Somehow everyone else seems to have forgotton that the single greatest goal of traditional medicine is to allow the body time to heal itself or reveal the answer. "We" don't need that replaced with some BS idea of doctors exploiting and manipulating patients. Doctors aren't the Virgin Mary, but seriously, wake up.


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## simpterfex (Nov 14, 2010)

Meditation As Medicine: Activate the Power of Your Natural Healing Force [Book]


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## mlevinson (Mar 17, 2010)

Excellent post Trail Wizard!

In my experience, I had some mild (undiagnosed) IT Band syndrome prior to my disk injury. I sometimes wonder if these two weren't somehow related... anyway, the symptoms from my disk injury was VERY similar to the symptoms of my ITBS.

After injuring my back I became very cautious regarding any twisting motion of my core in order to avoid pain and further injury. Fast forward 18 months to now and my ITBS is worse that it was prior to the injury. I have begun a fairly intensive stretching (ITBS rolling) regiment and I'm shocked at how deteriorated my core flexibility has become due to my lack of motion and babying of my back.

I also have become a big believer in trigger points and trying to find the root of the pain which rarely seems to be the same location as the pain. I have worked down the IT band starting from my hip to my knee for quite some time and the pain is much better. I now find that I have chased the pain down into the side of my upper calf. I began working on that area and now it has rolled into the rear center of my calf! It's really crazy.

I now use the roller over my entire leg... front, back, sides... all of it. This really seems to be helping but now I also feel tightness in the love handle / front lower abdominal area. I now stretch that too.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I've found that all of these areas are far more interconnected to each than I ever imagined. As you work one problem area, and increase range of motion in that area, the non-treated areas can generate even more pain if not treated because they are still bound up and tight, while the area you just worked on is happy and ready to play. 

An analogy is a team of cyclists who are say 80% through a long race and all equally fatigued. Now imagine that the lead rider is replaced by someone who is completely fresh. The rest of the team is going to fatigue MUCH faster trying to keep up with the new rider.

Where I use to focus only on say the source of the pain, I now consider the entire leg and lower core as one unit, and treat all of the areas together. It seems to be working so far...


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## Eric Z (Sep 28, 2008)

op, i don't have any experience with back pain but can't imagine what you're going through in your early 20s. the only advice i can give is do whatever you can to not get into a funk depression-wise. spend time with friends/family, check out bike pron online, view mtbr and participate in discussions like this to keep your mind out of the gutter.

you are very young and you have a great chance to heal very quickly- just don't overdo it. if you're uncertain on your doc's abilities/approach, get a second opinion.

good luck- positive vibes your way.
ez


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

I'm right there with you man. I was actually suprised to see a post about this on mtbr. 

Back around 2004 after i got out of high school, I worked at UPS for about three months during the peak season. I never had back pain until then. Since then, I have had lower back pain, but it has not been anything to write home about. Even though they teach you the correct way to lift, as most everybody knows (with your legs), they are in such a hurry with everything, you never really have time to concentrate on lifting properly. All that goes out the window with the speed at which they do things. 

Every now and then I can't lay on my back. I have to put a pillow behind myself when I sit down on soft furniture too. It's been this way since i worked there in 2004. I am now 27. 

-Now to try and figure out an underlying cause for my back pain. 

1. The first thing is my poor posture. I'm certain that it does not help anything, but It has got to be one of the hardest things to correct once you do it for so long. I do not stand with my shoulders back, I droop my shoulders forward. When I sit in a chair (which I do most of the day at work) I hunch over. It actually feels unatural for me to sit correctly. 

2. Weight. I am positive that my weight does nothing to help my back. If I were not carrying 50 lbs of extra weight, when I bend over my back would not have the load of my stomach and upper body. Being thinner would have to help. I am 6'1", 255 lbs at the moment - what you would call a clyde. I would like to be around 195-200. Hopefully with continued exercise and a better diet I can reach that. 

3. I had a bad motorcycle accident in 1998 at the age of 14, and caused major trauma to my lower right leg. My ankle is now fused at a 90 degree angle. fourteen operations later, I can walk but I do limp sometimes. Something I found here a few years ago when I first seriously started getting back into mountain biking was that my right leg is actually shorter than my left. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the injury, but I am not certain. The way I found it was when I measured myself to properly fit a bicycle. Only then did I see that my right knee was almost an inch shorter when sitting in a chair with my lower legs perpendicular to the floor, upper legs horizontal. 

Obviously, this will, and probably already has caused some hip issues, and I need to see about it. I haven't really done anything about it because it hasn't hurt me pain wise. 

I am a firefighter for the city I live in, and one night at the scene of a wreck I was putting on my gear. I stepped into my turnout pants, and went to pull them up. When I did, somehting got hung and I pulled harder. I was already hunched over like if you were to pick up something incorrectly. When I did, my back went out. I could hardly stand back up to get my gear up, and I had one of the most painful experiences I've ever had throughout the duration of that scene. Luckily, a few days later, it seemed to heal a little. It got a little better each day. Unfortunately, since then my back has been very tight, and it seems that any wrong movement sends it back towards the pain I experienced that night. It is so bad that I can't even bend over and put my socks and shoes on in the morning before work. 

The other day I decided I better get it checked out. I set up an appointment with the doctor and I am having xrays done today. They said that an MRI can only be ordered after an xray fails to produce any information. Hopefully I will get somewhere. 

For now, I can still ride and it doesn't really bother my back at all. Just for extra measure though, I just upgraded from a hartail 29er to a full susp 29er. I think this will help alot.


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## Trail Wizard (Aug 16, 2011)

mlevinson said:


> In my experience, I had some mild (undiagnosed) IT Band syndrome prior to my disk injury. I sometimes wonder if these two weren't somehow related... anyway, the symptoms from my disk injury was VERY similar to the symptoms of my ITBS.
> 
> After injuring my back I became very cautious regarding any twisting motion of my core in order to avoid pain and further injury. Fast forward 18 months to now and my ITBS is worse that it was prior to the injury.


Here is a pretty good explanation of ITB syndrome:

ITB Syndrome: Natural Treatment for Knee Pain - Sock Doc - YouTube

Also, ITB syndrome can develop as a result of dropping the opposite hip while riding. That hip could be dropping because of a tight calf, leg length discrepancy, the saddle is too high, or other reasons.

Steve Hogg, who contributes to the fitness forum on CyclingNews, has a great site with a lot of helpful info about bike fit, much of which is found in his blog. The _Popular Posts_ column on the right lists the basics.
Welcome » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website

Here's a great entry that discusses right side bias:
THE RIGHT SIDE BIAS » Bike Fit » Featured » Pelvic » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website


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## mlevinson (Mar 17, 2010)

As noted previously in this thread, I've been fighting some IT band issues and since it's time for me to get back on a bike after a 2 year hiatus due to a back injury... I decided to get serious about getting a handle on it.

After reading lots of info on the web, much of which referenced in this thread, I've been doing a daily regiment of stretching and rolling the offending areas. Yes, it's hurt like hell at times but it is getting better each day. I ALSO bought Andy Pruitt's Complete Medical Guide for Cyclists and decided to check my bike fitment. Needless to say it was off, and my seat has been almost 1.5 inches low, and too far forward. 

Today I went for a ride after about 2 weeks since my last ride which really sucked, and todays ride went REALLY well. I don't want to jinx myself, and I may be bent over in pain tomorrow... but the difference was nothing short of dramatic. The pain I use to feel in my knee was essentially gone, and here I type almost 3 hours after and it still feels good. It use to really get bad after an hour or so after the ride. I did not push myself and was really happy to just be able to be on the bike and not hurting.

So... what I've learned so far:

Do NOT trust your LBS's setup. Andy makes it really simple to get 95% of the way to ideal fitment. There is nothing magical about it and proper setup is a huge deal.

Do your own research and listen to your body! Also, I am REALLY starting to distrust modern medicine. I have a Dr. appt next week to get some help with my IT issues, but I know full and well his first recommendation is to inject some crap into my knee. I will be declining it of course, and am only going to him in order to get some PT. I'm tempted to cancel it but I think I'll go through with it just to see if his PT can give me more info on ITBS treatment.

Healing takes time. Nothing has taught me this more clearly than my back injury. I have also learned not to take feeling good for granted!

Enough rambling. Good luck to everyone out there struggling with pain and injuries!


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I have a ruptured disc in my low back, bulging discs mid-back, separated shoulder, shoulder surgery for torn labrum, carpal tunnel in both wrists...so yeah, I feel your pain, everyday. I just suck it up and deal with it. Lucky for me, riding is actually one activity that doesn't cause me more pain.


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## bigdog100 (Sep 13, 2009)

You may also consider an anti-inflammatory diet for 2 weeks or even a raw plant based diet to reduce systemic inflammation. Even better you should should look into Metagenics meal replacement drinks like ultra inflammex or do the Ultra clear program and see if that helps with your chronic inflammatory state. IVD's are avascular and require time to scar down. You may also be leaking disc material creating a process called arachidonic pain cascade along with the physical disc material compressing nerves in IVF's and/or canal. If that diet helps go get an ALCAT test to determine what is contributing to your inflammation.


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## Trail Wizard (Aug 16, 2011)

mlevinson said:


> As noted previously in this thread, I've been fighting some IT band issues and since it's time for me to get back on a bike after a 2 year hiatus due to a back injury... I decided to get serious about getting a handle on it.
> 
> I have a Dr. appt next week to get some help with my IT issues, but I know full and well his first recommendation is to inject some crap into my knee. I will be declining it of course, and am only going to him in order to get some PT. I'm tempted to cancel it but I think I'll go through with it just to see if his PT can give me more info on ITBS treatment.


Hold off on getting the injection. Correcting your bike position is a step in the right direction, and rolling is beneficial, but if you still experience a nagging pain from the ITBS, I _highly_ recommend a session of Graston Technique. One session was all I needed. It's a rather uncomfortable sensation... the practitioner passes a specially shaped stainless steel instrument over the affected muscles, but it does a fantastic noninvasive job of breaking up scar tissue that's causing the dysfunction and pain. It's been referred to as brushing the muscles, as it get's the fibers all going in the right direction and moving supplely.
You can ask your doctor about it at your appointment, but the doc is likely to have never heard of it. Practitioners are typically chiros, although a lot of sports therapy and regular physical therapy clinics also have persons trained in the method. A lot of pro and amateur sports teams also have practitioners in their lineup for injury recovery.

Locate a Provider

If you're looking for an awesome roller that's unlike any others, check out the Rumble Roller. There are four versions. Two long, and two short. The long ones are a larger diameter than the two compact rollers, and each size is available in firm and not-so-firm.

RumbleRoller Home

A far as natural anti-inflamatories go, Barlean's Omega Swirl Lemon Zest fish oil is pretty tasty. Absolutely no fish taste or burps afterward. It tastes more like lemon yogurt. 
I've found it at Whole Foods.
Barleans - Omega Swirl


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

Nubster said:


> I feel your pain, everyday. I just suck it up and deal with it. Lucky for me, riding is actually one activity that doesn't cause me more pain.


+1. I have more pain laying flat in the bed than i do riding my rigid bike on the dirt. I am lucky for that. Time to get a shot though to help the wife around the house. When i help more in the home, i get more time in the dirt :thumbsup:.


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## Trail Wizard (Aug 16, 2011)

The Sock Doc has posted an excellent article on trigger points:

Trigger Point Therapy: A Powerful Tool to Treat & Prevent Injuries

Sean, thinking about the types of work you've done, such as auto detailing, bent over with a buffer in hand, it's possible you have trigger points in your shoulder, chest, and upper back, which could cause problems further down the chain. Stooping down may have set up trigger points on one side of your glutes as well.
Mr. Miyagi taught Daniel-san the importance of wax-on, wax-off, but if you don't do both equally, I think it sets the body up for asymmetrical stress, which can certainly show up in areas far from the shoulder, such as the hip, pelvis, ankle, foot, back, etc.

Karate Kid Lesson 1 (Wax on Wax off) - YouTube

I don't know what type of work you've done in a deli, but what comes to mind is a lot of slicing of meats and cheeses, typically utilizing one arm repetitively, as well as reaching into the case to retrieve and replace food items. There could also be trigger points in your glutes, if you tend to favor one side over and over to stoop and reach in. Again, I'm just guessing here.

I would search for trigger points in the upper part of latissimus dorsi (behind the arm pit), teres minor and major, triceps, deltoids, trapezius, and pectoralis major. Your piriformis and other glutes might also be tight. One way to check upper lats and teres is to place your hand on your head, then with the other hand, grab the meaty section on the back side of your arm. Apply pressure by pinching the muscles with your thumb and fingers. You can also move you elbow laterally and medially while you're doing this. Feel around for painful bundles of spaghetti (or rope) that need to be separated into individual fibers. Another test to check for shoulder asymmetry is to reach one hand up your back, as if trying to scratch an itch. With the other, reach over your traps and see how close your hand can get to the other hand that's already behind your back. If you can clasp your fingers, that's pretty good for the shoulder of the itch-scratching arm. Then, switch arms and do the test on the other shoulder. If one hand is unable to reach up high enough on the back, this can indicate a lot of muscular and fascial tension in that shoulder, which can affect one's gait and skeletal alignment. The culprits are typically infraspinatus, supraspinatus, and teres minor. Or, if the hand reaching down can't reach the one going up the back, there could be trigger points in your triceps brachii or subscapularis.

If there was dysfunction in any of these muscles before you started weight lifting this past winter, it's quite possible for the lower back pain you're going through is a result of the original dysfunction. It might not seem obvious, but over the years, your body might not be able to sense dysfunction because it was a gradual change.

These pages show the layers of muscles on the front and back:

Back:
Teres Major Muscle

Front:
Pectoralis Major Muscle

Lower body / backside:
Piriformis muscle


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Thank you for that post. A lot of good insight. You mentioning favoring one side, made me think about this event again. I think I've mentioned it, but either way. Last November, I had been training for a 5 Mile race, running, not bike. I had two hours to kill in-between classes about 10 days before the race, so I went to the track and ran about 9-10 miles and a decent pace. Anyways, long story short, I ended up pinching a nerve in my right foot, It felt like a stress fracture. I stayed off of it, got a cortisone injection. It was feeling good the morning of the race, but half way in it started to really hurt, I finished instead of backing off. I got a really good time for the run, but it was a few days after that run that my back pain started hurting. Possibly I was over compensating with my left side for the right foot pain. I really don't know, even if that was the exact cause of my pain, what that'll do for me. 

Past 2 weeks I've been on a traction table, and got homeopathic injections. It's not working. I don't feel terrible, but it's not anywhere near 100%.


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## camarosam (Jul 26, 2009)

*OMM Doctor*; google this doctor in your area and go see one. I have heard amazing stories from a few people about how they have stopped pain and can falsify what the nerve is sending. Its a mix of chiro and physical nerve replacement.

They can mess with nerves in your neck and make you feel like someone pinched you in the butt, I'm going to be looking into one of these doctors soon. I'm up for anything at this moment.


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## Trail Wizard (Aug 16, 2011)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Thank you for that post. A lot of good insight. You mentioning favoring one side, made me think about this event again. I think I've mentioned it, but either way. Last November, I had been training for a 5 Mile race, running, not bike. I had two hours to kill in-between classes about 10 days before the race, so I went to the track and ran about 9-10 miles and a decent pace. Anyways, long story short, I ended up pinching a nerve in my right foot, It felt like a stress fracture. I stayed off of it, got a cortisone injection. It was feeling good the morning of the race, but half way in it started to really hurt, I finished instead of backing off. I got a really good time for the run, but it was a few days after that run that my back pain started hurting. Possibly I was over compensating with my left side for the right foot pain. I really don't know, even if that was the exact cause of my pain, what that'll do for me.
> 
> Past 2 weeks I've been on a traction table, and got homeopathic injections. It's not working. I don't feel terrible, but it's not anywhere near 100%.


Out of curiosity, are your first metatarsals shorter than your second metatarsals?

There's a foot condition called Morton's toe that can predispose someone to develop trigger points and back pain. It was named after Dr. Dudley Morton, who found a pattern between those with the condition, and the musculoskeletal ailments that coincided with it. There was also a previous foot doctor, Thomas Morton (no relation to Dudley) that did research on neuromas, thus the name for Morton's neuroma, which occurs between the third and fourth metatarsals (big toe being number one). Drs. Janet Travel and David Simons, who pioneered much of the research on trigger points and referred pain from them, saw the connection between Morton's toe and myofascial pain and dysfunction. They attribute Morton's toe as being a cause for trigger points in gluteus medius (which can cause lower back pain / lumbago, pain at the back and side of the buttock and into the upper thigh, gluteus medius, gluteus minimus, vastus medialis, peroneus longus in the calf, tibialis posterior in the calf, and flexor digitorum longus in the foot. Morton's toe can also cause Morton's neuroma because of the abnormal stress place on certain joints in the foot.

A lot of people think the only way to tell if one has Morton's toe is to see if the big toe is shorter than the one next to it. The problem with that method is there can be a short first metatarsal with long phalanges that make the big toe as long as the second. What you need to look for is the position of the joint or ball of the big toe in relation to the joint of the second toe. If it's noticeably further back, this can cause a lot of instability, compensation, and dysfunction elsewhere.

You mentioned you pinched a nerve in your foot. Was the pain between the third and fourth toes?

Lastly, what brand and model shoes were you running in, and what shoes do you regularly wear now on a regular basis? (non-cycling)

To get an idea of what a severe case of Morton's toe looks like, here's the cover of the book about the subject:

Amazon.com: Why You Really Hurt: It All Starts in the Foot (9780942664027): Dr. Burton S. Schuler: Books


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Can't answer the first question, I'm going to look into when I get some free time later. 

The nerve I pinched was in-between my big toe and my second toe on my right foot. I was wearing, and have been wearing Nike Lunarglides for 2-3 years now, they're my everyday shoe. I've got custom orthotics made my the podiatrist that gave me the injection. I didn't have those for the run or prior to it though.


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## Dr. Tweedbucket (Aug 27, 2010)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Hey guys/girls, I feel like I just need to vent, as I'm starting to lose it. I've been having back pain since last november, after seeing a chiropractor for 2 months and with not an inch of improvement he finally ordered an MRI. Turns out I herniated three discs somehow, doesn't really matter how at this point. Anyways, I've been seeing doctors nearly 5 days a week, sometimes 2 and 3 in the same day. Physical Therapy, cortisone epidural, anti-imflamitory meds, rest, quit drinking and smoking. Nothing has been helping, there's been a few days where I'm pain free, and this past week was pretty good. Yesterday my lower back locked up, had a muscle spasm and I'm having a hard time walking again.
> 
> I'm not allowed to run, lift weights, obviously I'm not allowed to do any DH like I'd planned on doing a lot of this season. I'm really coming to wits end, and sinking into a depression. The only thing I'm allowed to do is ride a stationary bike at the gym.
> 
> ...


Hey Sean, I can feel your pain. I am just NOW finallly beginning to feel better after a month of back pain. It seemed like it was never going to get better and after a lot of rest and some meds, it finally did. I know what you're saying about depression .... it's easy to get bummed out, but you just have to know that eventually it will get better. Just hang in there and pick up some new hobbies that you can enjoy while not requiring you to move around alot. I got into editing photographs and making cool albums of things I'm interested in. Also I got this cool mini synth keyboard and record and started making up some cool songs ..... there is a lot you can do .... everyone has different talents, maybe search and find what else you have while you are laid up! You may surprise yourself.

In the meantime, I hope you take it easy and get better to ride another day. Thoughts and prayers sent your way!


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## Trail Wizard (Aug 16, 2011)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Can't answer the first question, I'm going to look into when I get some free time later.
> 
> The nerve I pinched was in-between my big toe and my second toe on my right foot. I was wearing, and have been wearing Nike Lunarglides for 2-3 years now, they're my everyday shoe. I've got custom orthotics made my the podiatrist that gave me the injection. I didn't have those for the run or prior to it though.


Here's a really great article about orthotics.... worth reading and considering.

Orthotics | Ban Orthotics! | Foot Pain | Health Problems

If I have the timeline and info correct, you injured your foot in November, got an injection and custom orthotics from the podiatrist sometime afterward, and spent a lot of time in the gym gaining muscle over the winter. 
Were you wearing the Lunarglides (either with or without the orthotics) at the gym? 
Did your weight training regimen consist solely of sitting in weight machines doing just upper body? Or, were you standing up and doing free weights with your upper body? Did you do any leg routines, either free weight, rack, or machine?

As for my own shoes, which I believe help my back and neck feel better, they're the New Balance Minimus 10 trail shoes (aka MT10). They can be found at running stores and REI. It's my primary everyday shoe, but I also hike and run in them. The heel is substantially lower than most running shoes, so there are transition programs to follow if you plan on running in them. For everyday walking, I see no need for transition. This year, New Balance also introduced the Minimus Zero line of shoes, which has zero differential between heel and forefoot. The other non-Zero Minimus shoes [trail models, road model, cross training (gym) model] have a 4mm differential. If I were to return to gym workouts (weights and stabilization work), I'd pick up a pair of the New Balance Minimus MX20. That's me, though. 4mm may seem short, but I'm actually looking forward to picking up a pair of Minimus Zero, probably the Life model. I've tried the trail model, but the upper material folded strangely, almost paper-like.

Are your Nike Lunarglides the same ones you've been wearing for 2-3 years, or do buy the same model each time? If they're actually 2-3 years old, _and_ they're both your running and everyday shoe, it's likely that they have a lot of forefoot compression, thus increasing the heel to forefoot differential even more. There's also the possibility the orthotics are doing more bad than good, for your back in particular.

If you're interested in the New Balance Minimus shoes, brick and mortar stores typically carry the regular width, while their online store offers extra widths for most models. I think even Sports Authority sells some models, such as the MT20, which is a second generation trail shoe. If you don't have a local store to try them on, the nice thing about the online New Balance store is you can try them on at home, and return them with free shipping if they don't fit. If you don't want anything from them, you'll be refunded for everything.

minimus


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

I can't believe that your taking this much personal interest in my issue. I can't say thanks enough.

Your timeline is pretty much correct. Most of my leg work outs came from running. My little brother is an aspiring body builder, occasionally I would do a leg work out with them.

I just loved the lunar glides so much, I had about 6 different pairs of them. I went to Road Runner Store, and got fitted for shoes. They told me I had high arches, with a slight inward flex on the landing. They got me into a 'support' shoe. I can tell I'm not going to like them for running, but for everyday walking, gym, school, I like them a lot. Mizumo Wave Inspire 8, if you were curious.

I do however have news. I've been doing trigger point, myofacial release, foam rolling, stretching. Somehow, while my P.T mentioned my hamstrings were extremely tight, he never really addressed them except for a static stretch once a week. He was focused on my Illiacus and Piraformus. I spend a good 5 minutes rolling my hamstrings out last night at the gym, my left one felt incredibly weird close to my butt. I can't really describe it. But like I said, good time spent rolling it, and the pain was *gone*, like it was never there gone.

I woke up this morning and it was back, but not as bad as yesterday morning. I took the lacrosse ball I'd been using for other trigger points and got it under my hamstring, took a hot shower, and its gone again.

I'm not getting my hopes up that this is going to be it, but damn It's hard not to. I'm going to run this by my therapist, and see about getting a sports massage. I'm going to continue to roll it out.

Now that I look back on it, that big training run I did was on cement, a surface I'm not used to running on, I did stop half way through and stretch out a little bit, but when I finished, there's no way I stretched enough. Than the injury to my foot came into play, a week later I did that 5 mile race with pain in my foot, my muscles probably not even fully recovered from that training run. And than by the time I finished, my right foot hurt so bad all I wanted to do was get home, didn't stretch at all. I think knots started formed over the next week or two, and started pulling and pulling on my hip, which pulled on my nerve. And I kept running, 'fight through the pain' like I thought you were supposed to.

I'm curious as to what your opinion is, if my 'diagnoses' holds any truth.

Btw - I'm not going to do anything stupid today, or anytime soon just because I'm not in pain. I've learned the hard way enough times lol


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## Trail Wizard (Aug 16, 2011)

I don't mind helping you at all. Hopefully you can resolve the problem and get yourself back in order, physically and mentally. You had mentioned the option of surgery, and I just wanted you to explore all other avenues that would be safer and more logical, if it turned out to be something more basic that surgery would not actually be addressing. Too often, surgery treats the symptom, but not the cause. I come from a mechanical background, so the musculoskeletal system to me is a machine that one must understand its functioning in order to fix it properly.

It's great that you're addressing the trigger points and myofascial restrictions. If the tension in your hamstrings and/or glute max returns (along with lower back pain), continue with the trigger point, myfascial work, and rolling, but remove stretching from the equation and see if things improve. There's always the possibility that something you believe to be beneficial is actually perpetuating the problem. If a muscle or tendon is injured, hold off on any stretching.
Sports massages are helpful, but perhaps even more useful is self massage. For the hamstrings, get comfortable on the floor or bed, support your head with some pillows, and grab behind your thigh behind the knee with one hand, while the other hand grabs the muscles, gripping/pinching and kneading them until they become unbundled and supple. It's easiest to do while your knee is bent, then extend your leg while squeezing/pinching the muscle tissue.

You mentioned some work on your piriformis. If its your left piriformis that is also a problem, my only theory is that perhaps your left foot is everting a bit (or pointing outward), which _might_ be a result of running on the track in a counter-clockwise direction, which is the direction people normally go. It's possible you turned your foot outward as you rounded the turns. I'm merely guessing there. Be careful to not apply too much pressure to the piriformis, as the sciatic nerve runs beneath it. I've had success deactivating piriformis trigger points by using carefully applied pressure with a TheraCane.
With your injured right foot, you may have babied it and braced yourself from landing normally, and you may have powered more with your left side to compensate. Running on hard surfaces is aslo pretty brutal on the body, especially if you're not used to it. If your piriformis has trigger points and you're running or walking with your foot/feet everted, that could certainly perpetuate the problem as well.
Kelly Starrett of San Francisco Crossfit has quoted Ida Rolf several times, essentially saying that if you were a race car, you wouldn't have your front wheels point in different directions, so why would you have your feet point any other direction than straight forward? That might not apply to your case. Your running form might be great, I don't know, but these two videos have some good form tips.

Runners shoulders - YouTube

Pose walking - YouTube


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## Dr. Tweedbucket (Aug 27, 2010)

How's it going? Any updates? I hope all is well.

My back has finally healed up. Stretching is going to be a way of life from here on out. I hope you're doing well. 


HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> I can't believe that your taking this much personal interest in my issue. I can't say thanks enough.
> 
> Your timeline is pretty much correct. Most of my leg work outs came from running. My little brother is an aspiring body builder, occasionally I would do a leg work out with them.
> 
> ...


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Funny, I was just re-reading this thread last night and was going to post an update but decided not to.

I was talking to TrailWizard through PM about more conservative healing methods. They seem to have been working at the time. I had a 3 days where I was 90% pain free, where I would wake up in the morning and feel good. But that ended for whatever reason. 

I've cut back on riding almost 100%. I've been down hilling twice and that about sums about my riding. Started working on my muscle imbalances, foam rolling, stretching, walking. It has gotten marginally better. I feel amazing after I do my work out. But the pain creeps back a few hours after I'm done, and I foam roll and stretch after every workout, until I wake up in the morning in just as much pain as the morning before. 

The game plan from here is I'm getting another epidural injection next week, I'm working on finding a good sport specific rehab/P.T place. If that doesn't work, and the pain creeps back than I'm going for surgery to have the disc space cleaned up. I'm honestly scared shitless to have surgery but I can't keep living like this, and it doesn't seem to be getting better on its own. 

Based on the reading I've been doing, and my god it's been 3-4 articles a day. The reason that most of these surgeries fail, IMO, is that a lot of people that have them are less active people that have desk jobs. Set up perfectly for anterior pelvic tilt, weak glutes and abs, and tight lower back and hip flexors/quads. The same imbalances I have. I think a lot of people don't realize they have these imbalances, or how they are the direct cause of there back herniations, and don't work hard enough, or at all to fix these. And so re-herniation happens. I got these imbalances from distance running, which doesn't require that much glute activation and from long hours in the saddle, where again I've become quad dominant. I can leg press 1000 pounds for 5-6 reps, but I'd have a hard time squatting 135 for the same amount of reps. 

My dad is constantly complaining about his lower back, he sits in his car, drives an hour to work, than sits for 7-8 hours, than sits back in his car and drives an hour home. He uses a foam roller, but only on his back to crack it. It's either he doesn't understand hitting his quads and hip flexors would help drastically, or it hurts to much. I think he's starting to understand though. 

Anyways, I'm done ranting lol, I'll post up a week after I get that injection and let you know how its going. Thanks for the support.


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## ryencool (Apr 20, 2012)

First of all know this, it will get better. I just read your post and Im going through a somewhat similar situation. I was diagnosed with crohns when I was seven and have had 5 surgeries to remove parts of my intestines when they are inflamed. So around 2 years ago I had just moved my girlfriend and I from austin tc to los angeles for her first job. I started getting sick a few months after the move, and I had been so healthy I hadnt even seen a doctor in 10+ years. I was 26 at the time. She virtually left me sick in the hospital on hte drop of a dime. One night we were goin out having dinner, the next i was sick, single, broke, at cedar sinai. I had to leave everything I knew, my job, school, friends, my life and move to dallas to have surgery and stay with my grandparents. After the surgery Iw as so alone and f;d up I started taking lost and lots of pain meds. Eventually I was on massive amounts of dilaudid and fentenyl at the same time, not recommended as it can stop your heart. My body however was so used to it that it didnt matter. had to move back in with my parents at the age of 28, after being on my own since the 12th grade. I thought my life was over. I went from my ripped 155lbs to well over 200lbs. I was sitting in my room all day, I hated upstate ny. I had no friends here, and there was 3 ft of snow outside. I literally wanted it all to be over.

One day though I got tired of it all, I knew I was stronger than all of this. I knew I had a lot more to offer this world and it has a lot more to offer me. I decided that I wasnt going to go out like that. I think to two most importatn decision I made was to get help for my pain meds and start yoga. That decision was about 6 months ago and now im down to 170lbs if not less and feel stronger/better than I ever had. My lower back pain from crohns is gone, and I am at a point I never ever ever thought I would be again. 

The hardest thing to do is to accept the present and know that all you can do is prepare for a better future. If you dont do that prepare part then you will never get better. You will be in a never ending pit and I have been there, it is not a fun place to be. Luckily my parents are taking over the family business in florida and I get to go with them. Im going to start fresh in ft lauderdale. I dont have a degree but I can find a job. Im an artist and sell painting/furniture pretty frequently. I know I can get back on top again, I know I can have a great life. Dont let temporary things ruin the rest of your life. You might not get to ride for 3-6 months or longer. However when that time passes and you did get to ride, you will be so excited that you made that decision to do the right thing for your body and mind, It sucks, but stuff takes time 

if you ever need to vent feel free


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

i don't have true back pain (thank god), but i have absolutely no cartilage left in my right shoulder. it ****ed up some nerves and i get neck pain and a burning pain throughout my arm. i've been to so many doctors over the years, i've been dealing with this since i was 16. they want to do a new shoulder, but there's a year and a half of therapy and whatnot to go through, so i've been putting it off. sometimes when i'm riding, its not even enjoyable because my arm goes numb and i can't trip my handlebar. other days it doesn't hurt at all. i'm only 30 years old and i feel like i have the upper body of a 90 year old man some days. it really sucks not being able to do the things that you want to do because of physical limitations. but yeah, you have to listen to the doctors, and you have to really put it out of your mind the things that you can't do, and focus on the fact that you will again.


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## SeaHag (Jul 14, 2011)

I hurt my back badly playing high school football and was out of school that year for about 6 months with my knees propped up by pillows laying flat on my back. Twice a week chiropracter visits were largely innefectual...sure it felt good after he popped me back in, but I'd step off the curb outside his office to get in my Mom's car and everything was screwed up again.

The "cure" for me came from Accupuncture from a Doctor who'd just returned from two years in China studying under masters. I had super fine needles placed on the left and right sides of my back side just below my glutes, in the small of my back and mid-back below shoulder blades. These six needles were connected to an electronic pulse transmitter that pulsed electricity to my muscles. At first the contracting muscles hurt and I'd grit my teeth...but within a few minutes, it was like getting the deepest muscle massage you can imagine. I had six 15 minute treatments but have never had a recurring back pain issue from the first appointment on. I left the office that first day and was hurdling fences in the neighborhood to "test" the permanency of that cure. Still going strong over 20 years later.


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## Trail Wizard (Aug 16, 2011)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> My dad is constantly complaining about his lower back, he sits in his car, drives an hour to work, than sits for 7-8 hours, than sits back in his car and drives an hour home. He uses a foam roller, but only on his back to crack it. It's either he doesn't understand hitting his quads and hip flexors would help drastically, or it hurts to much. I think he's starting to understand though.


I happened upon these articles last week while skimming through Wired, which also lead to the Men's Health article (that also pertains to women's health).
Some rather frightening information about sitting too much..... it's not just about tight hip flexors, glute dysfunction, and back pain:

Ditch Your Office Chair for a New 'Standing Desk' | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

Health: Staying Active | Men's Health


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

I just figured I'd post another update. I got my third and last injection 7 days ago. I'm 90-95% pain free for the time being. I've picked up swimming over the past weekend. I'm giving up everything else, even walking, for the sake of exercise anyways. It seems to be working, and although it sucks not being able to ride or run, I still get a good work out swimming, and I feel really good when I get out of the pool, and that feelings lasts. So I suppose for the time being, I'm going to keep doing it until something changes. I still have this feeling that its going to get bad again and I'll end up needing surgery, but hopefully I'm wrong.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Late to the party, but thought I would add to this thread. I was hit by a drunk driver when I was 18 and herniated two discs at L4/L5 and L5/S1. After three years of therapy and no improvement I had a laminectomy. Did well on and off, but would have recurring debilitating pain at first for a few days that grew over time to months. I would go to see a chiropractor, get injections, etc. 

Flash forward 20 years to 2008 when I had a big issue. Could not stand up straight for several months with absolutely brutal pain and finally decided to give in for a tune up surgery. Another laminectomy at the same levels and my doctor was amazed that my previous surgery had lasted that long. What was supposed to be a 90 minute surgery turned into a 6 hour marathon. What they found was pieces of disc material had been sheared off and adhered to the Dura. Most likely cause was chiro work. It was explained to me that each of those pops you hear in the adjustment was cutting off portions of the herniations. Felt great after a few days, but six months later I was back in and this time my doctor was recommending hardware. No way I was going down that route and decided to refocus my efforts. 

I started stretching 3 times a day and walking to improve my muscle balance (I started racing BMX at 12 and am now 42). All of my symptoms disappeared within 4 weeks and have yet to return four years later. My belief is that stretching is the key. My hamstrings are incredibly tight as well and I have never been able to touch my toes. By doing a few simple stretches a few times per day focused on my lower back and hamstrings has allowed the area to relax. The thing to remember is that disc material is very prone to inflamation. Any slight rubbing causes it to multiply in size and it forces the nerves to rub on the spinal column. Once you have that inflamation your muscles will try to protect that area which is where the locking/tightness come from. You will not see any improvement for several weeks even if you are doing the right things since it takes that long for the inflamation to go down.

You will have ups and downs during this process, but even the surgery is not that bad. I was back on the bike four weeks later. You are correct in your assumption that most people have issues recur because they do not stick to the exercising and stretching. My issue was no stretching at all, ever and a single type of exercise which was riding.


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> I just figured I'd post another update. I got my third and last injection 7 days ago. I'm 90-95% pain free for the time being. I've picked up swimming over the past weekend. I'm giving up everything else, even walking, for the sake of exercise anyways. It seems to be working, and although it sucks not being able to ride or run, I still get a good work out swimming, and I feel really good when I get out of the pool, and that feelings lasts. So I suppose for the time being, I'm going to keep doing it until something changes. I still have this feeling that its going to get bad again and I'll end up needing surgery, but hopefully I'm wrong.


I probably mentioned this upthread already but it got lost in the blizzard of suggestions you received, all well-intentioned, I'm sure. This book, "Treat Your Own Spinal Stenosis" may not have all the answers, but it does a very good job of explaining, in plain language, exactly what the various forms of spinal stenosis are due to, and what you can do to strengthen a little-known muscle called the multifidus, which is more often than not at the 'core' of the spinal pain.

In my opinion, no matter what you opt to do, it's worth the coin to get his book, and read it.

http://www.amazon.com/Treat-Your-Own-Spinal-Stenosis/dp/1608445623/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

I've went to the book store and picked up a few books that were recommended here. I spent about a half hour skimming the chapters and looking at all the exercises, I didn't end up buying any because they're all pretty much reiterating what my chiro and P.T were telling me. Core Core Core, stability in the core with ease the tension on your lower back. 

From all the reading I've done, and from a few discussions I've had with members here, a shout out to Trail Wizard specifically, he's given me a ton of useful and practical information, It's more so my entire kinetic chain that has been thrown out of whack. 

From age 13-18 I was just about 100% inactive. I was overweight, body fat was probably somewhere between 25-30% at my worst. At 18-19 I started going to the gym, lifting weights, running on the treadmill occasionally, started dieting. I was making progress, but around age 21 I got serious about running and riding, and really trying to lose some real weight and body fat %. I built up to the point where last year I was running 5 miles, 5-6 mornings, followed by a 5-10 mile road ride, and than 2-3 hour trail ride later at night, and weights occasionally if I didn't ride. 

Where I messed up is, I never ran with anyone experience who could watch my gait or running form, I never got anyone experienced in riding to help me get set up and watch my form on the bike, and I never realized that biking and running caused muscle imbalances, and I didn't stretch anywhere near the amount I should of been, somedays I didn't stretch at all. In my self diagnoses, I believe this put me into anterior pelvic tilt and put pressure on those lower discs causing them to degenerate. 

I may have mentioned it, but in and article I read, it mentioned that distance runners and bike riders, the glutes become far weaker than the the quads and hip flexors. I guess it's due to not taking huge strides like sprinters do, and riding a bike seated, your flexors and quads are doing the majority of the work. 

In my situation, my hip flexors are so tight that when I do a leg raise to try a hit lower abs, when I bring them down I can feel and hear my hip flexors popping. My left side is so bad, that even still when I get out of the pool, my right glute will be sore as hell, like I was doing squats, and my left side with barely have a burn. I'm positive this is why physical therapy didn't do anything for me.

So in trying to fix this, I'm foam rolling the crap out of my quads and attempting to do trigger point release of my flexors with a tennis ball, followed by stretching before I work out, in hopes that even if I only get millimeters of release, my glutes will be able to start working during the work out, and than just become a part of my kinetic chain again. 

I'd just like to talk about swimming again, and say that I've never been a swimmer, never done it before. So I am taking precautions about my strokes, attempting the best form I can and not pushing to hard. I'm only swimming freestyle right now, but while I'm swimming, I feel longer. My abs, including my lower abs that I have trouble hitting due to the snapping flexors, and they also feel more relaxed, I guess because I'm essentially lying down. I'm not sure, but I want to say the being in the water decompresses the spine, maybe not as much as a traction table, but to some extent I would think. 

Planning on continuing to swim an hour or two everyday I can, and than if I'm still feeling as good as I am, or hopefully a little better, I'm going to go back to the personal trainer I was working with. She suffered 2 - 3 herniated discs and is a top notch trainer, so hopefully we can pick up where we left off. 

Anyways, sorry for the huge rant, I had a little bit of time, and that pretty much sums up where my train of thought is at the moment. And I've said it before but I'll say it again, I really appreciate everyones advice, opinions and support. Everybody's back injury is different and happens for a different reason but I think we can all learn from each other.

:thumbsup:


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## geardoc (Jan 15, 2004)

r99 said:


> Read this book: Amazon.com: Low Back Disorders: Evidence-Based Prevention and Rehabilitation (9780736042413): Stuart McGill: Books
> 
> ...snip a bunch of stuff
> 
> Do not stretch your back. If you have a disc problem this will probably just make it worse.


+1

Another McGill fan here. I've implemented a lot of his stuff in my life.


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## chas_martel (May 14, 2006)

SS Hack said:


> Back pain is unbearable. Try some core exercises if you can. Stay clear of the drugs the doctors push, depending on the State you live in you may have better more healthy options if you know what I mean.


Poor, very poor advice. What if he has a nerve causing pain that feeds back on its self causing more nerve impingement? This is fairly common in this context.


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## 29ftw (Apr 28, 2010)

I just saw this thread and will add my 2cents..

My low-back issues started when I got done with college and got a desk job. Continuing to run made things much worse. I'll reiterate what's already been said - when things are inflamed (erectors, SI area, etc), it is better to let everything settle down for a couple weeks before trying to do any exercises.

I've been to 5 or 6 chiros and PTs over the past 10yrs. The best chiro I went to was a guy that did ART and Graston on my psoas and hamstrings. He told me I needed to do yoga and get regular massage to get and stay loose.. Those two things take up a lot of time and I'm just now getting regular massage after procrastinating for years. Yoga (at home with a dvd) is fantastic when I do it.

I think foam rolling is great, particularily hamstrings, quads and flexors. I was using the roller on my low-back when I first got it (to crack) and I found rolling the low-back makes things worse. The best piece of information I ever read was a BikeJames article -

"We now understand that some areas of the body want to be mobile and some want to be stable. Training all joints in the body the same way is a recipe for pain and decreased performance. For our purposes here, the hips want to be mobile, *the lumbar spine (low back) wants to be stable* and the thoracic spine (upper back) wants to be mobile. So, based on this understanding of functional anatomy we can see that we want to train the midsection to resist movement, not create it."

I use a lacrosse ball, a medium density OPTP roller, the 12" Rumble Roller (my fav for hamstrings) and often use The Stick, too.

Glute bridges, planks and bird dogs are the core exercises that have been good for me.

I have a standing desk at work now, so I can sit or stand anytime, and that helps break up long days (geekdesk.com).


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## Whason (Sep 15, 2008)

Nobody has mentioned BIkram Yoga. MIght be worth a shot. The heat might make your back feel better.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

I wish there was a positive rep button I could hit for you all. The mtb community is pretty damn cool. Props to you all for spending time to help Sean.

Sean, I too hope you recover soon enough and can get back on that bike. I would add my .02 with regards to advice, but I don't have much to add.

Well...if you can learn to enjoy swimming and it does not bother you too much, it is a great exercise imo..

Peace.


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks guys. I got my third Injection 2 weeks ago. I was actually starting to enjoy swimming, it was something new for me to learn and I felt good afterwords. Everything seemed to be doing good but the pain has creeped back again past few days. A few of the doctor's I've been seeing that are against surgery have suggested that I consider at this point. 7-8 months later and there's been no real improvement, I guess I'm left with no other options.

So I have a consult with a Neurosurgeon next Thursday. I've seen him once before, he seemed pretty confident that L4-L5 was the cause of pain. Hopefully this will cure it, I've hit that wall once again where I don't even want to get out of bed in the morning. 

But again, everybody in here has been helpful and supportive. Thanks to you all.


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## karma 33 (Dec 27, 2009)

I ruptured a disc several years ago, and it was very depressing being immobile and in pain, and not being able to participate in the sports you love. I went to chiropractors, doctors, and physical therapists. I could barely walk for a month. I could not stand straight because my back muscles were so locked up.

They did traction on me.i had chiro adjustments and physical therapy. Nothing really seemed to help. I got gradually better over several months, but i can honestly say the one thing that helped more than anything else was picking up a copy of Robin McKenzie's book 7 Steps to a Pain Free Life(back). The extention exercises in his book made huge differences for me. They are very simple. 

I still throw out my back a few times a year, but it is much more manageable and recoverable using McKenzie's methods. It was the best $15 i ever spent.


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## LuckySomer (May 1, 2008)

karma 33 said:


> i of robin mckenzie's book 7 steps to a pain free life(back).


+1 ls


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## chazj (May 21, 2012)

Spinal Decompression!!!!! you sound just like me about a year ago.....find a chiro that does it. the machine is called DRX9000 it is amazing


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

I've tried everything that's been mentioned here, and just about every conservative treatment I can get in my area. I've seen something like 13 or 14 different doctors, chiro's, P.t's, etc... and nothing is giving me any lasting relief. I really think that I herniated it the first time back when I was 19 or 20 and detailing cars. The pain was pretty similar, left SI joint area locked up, shooting pain into the same area. I think it 'healed' on it's own that time, and the herniation either got worse, or the fragment actually broke off and is floating around down there.

A good riding friend of mine shattered her arm racing last weekend. She's out for the season now, and IMO, she'll be lucky to ride again in the future. I've really been rethinking if mountain biking is worth it, more specifically downhill. She's a sick chick, more upset she's missing races than the fact her arm is in half. Hopefully it doesn't kill her passion like I feel mine dying. Her Injury really opened my eyes for some reason.


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## slomo (Mar 28, 2004)

Hey Sean, I had another reply somewhere in this thread but since it sounds like you might be considering surgery, I thought I'd give an update. Surgery is not necessarily the end.

Jan. 18th I had a fusion at L5-S1 and some clean up at L4. Cut front and back to do all the work. This morning I went for a 13 mile ride on my single speed. I've now done this ride (and a few longer) about ten times. I'm only on paved bike paths until the full fusion takes, which could be another 6 months, but I can ride. I just love to be on my bike, at this point if this is the only riding I can do I'll take it.

For me, surgery has helped me feel better than I have in the last 10 years. Everyone is different though. For some people, surgery seems to not work. As there are so many of those stories out on the web, I thought I'd share one good one.

I'll won't blow out this post with details, but if you want more info on my experience, let me know and I'll be happy to share. 

Keep hanging in there.


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## XLR99 (Sep 21, 2010)

Sean, hang in there!! It sounds like we've charted a similar course with therapies, blocks, etc for the past few months. 
I decided last week to have surgery. It may or may not be the best option for you with your injury and symptoms, but definitely go to the neurosurgeon and get a thorough eval. 

Regarding losing your passion, I can relate. I was pretty miserable for a few months, physically and emotionally. During one of my interrogations of the surgeon last week, I talked about it with him, and he said 'you're not going to paralyze yourself. Do what you can now, limited by your pain.'. 
So I've discovered in the past week that (right now, anyway) a slow, low impact MTB ride hurts me less than walking, and a lot of other basic things. I ride about the same speed as my 8 y/o daughter, and I need help getting the bikes racked up, but it's VASTLY helped my mood the past few days. It would seem that endorphins work. I actually have something to look forward to again. 
May be worth talking about with the surgeon if swimming isn't working for you, depending on your symptoms and what's going on inside your back.

Slomo - thanks for posting about your experience! Glad you're back on the bike!!


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Just thought I'd post another Update. I had another MRI last Friday night, and the Surgeon looked it over with me yesterday. He found a fragment that has broken free and is more or less floating in the L4-L5 spacing, currently hitting the L4 nerve root. 

So I'm having it removed next tuesday. The position the fragment has got it self stuck in is so far laterally, that he doesn't have to drill in through the spinal canal and remove a lot bone. He said he can go in a little to the side and grab it without removing much, if any bone. 

I think this explains why the pain has been so sporadic and random. 

Anyways, Wish me luck!


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Just thought I'd post another Update. I had another MRI last Friday night, and the Surgeon looked it over with me yesterday. He found a fragment that has broken free and is more or less floating in the L4-L5 spacing, currently hitting the L4 nerve root.
> 
> So I'm having it removed next tuesday. The position the fragment has got it self stuck in is so far laterally, that he doesn't have to drill in through the spinal canal and remove a lot bone. He said he can go in a little to the side and grab it without removing much, if any bone.
> 
> ...


Good luck!


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Just thought I'd post another Update. I had another MRI last Friday night, and the Surgeon looked it over with me yesterday. He found a fragment that has broken free and is more or less floating in the L4-L5 spacing, currently hitting the L4 nerve root.
> 
> So I'm having it removed next tuesday. The position the fragment has got it self stuck in is so far laterally, that he doesn't have to drill in through the spinal canal and remove a lot bone. He said he can go in a little to the side and grab it without removing much, if any bone.
> 
> ...


Medically, they frequently call those things "loose bodies", and while that term can have very pleasant connotations for most of us, in the medical field all they mean is trouble.

Sounds good that they have confirmed it as the cause of your pain, and even better that it can be taken care of with a 'scope.

Long time ago I had a 'loose body floating around in my knee that my surgeon at the time
misdiagnosed as a simple meniscus tear. He fished it out with the 'scope, but it was about the size of a quarter. No wonder I felt like I had a pencil lodged in my knee joint.

That whole medical episode was not very pleasant for me. I hope yours is nothing but smooth sailing.


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## heleninct (May 30, 2012)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Just thought I'd post another Update. I had another MRI last Friday night, and the Surgeon looked it over with me yesterday. He found a fragment that has broken free and is more or less floating in the L4-L5 spacing, currently hitting the L4 nerve root.
> 
> So I'm having it removed next tuesday. The position the fragment has got it self stuck in is so far laterally, that he doesn't have to drill in through the spinal canal and remove a lot bone. He said he can go in a little to the side and grab it without removing much, if any bone.
> 
> ...


Goodl luck, and heal quickly!


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Guys, Girls, I thought I'd let you all know I had my surgery this past Tuesday. There were some complications and the surgery took almost 3 hours, but everything went okay. He mentioned that after he removed whatever part of the disc he had to, that he cleaned the nerve. I'm guessing there was scar tissue built up on it. I have actually yet to speak to the Surgeon, he spoke to my parents briefly once everything was finished, but had to go back into surgery before I came out of the anesthesia. 

I'm still in a pretty good deal of pain, but I guess that's expected. My pre-surgery symptoms are just about 100% gone, and I'm up and walking around the neighborhood. I can still feel some nerve pain like I had before surgery at sometimes in the day, but I'm sure it's because the whole site is inflamed from surgery. It's getting better by the day. 

Anyways, Really everyone, thanks so much for the support. When I first made this thread I wasn't looking for more than venting, but the community here has been awesome and extremely helpful to me in this rough time.


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> Guys, Girls, I thought I'd let you all know I had my surgery this past Tuesday. There were some complications and the surgery took almost 3 hours, but everything went okay. He mentioned that after he removed whatever part of the disc he had to, that he cleaned the nerve. I'm guessing there was scar tissue built up on it. I have actually yet to speak to the Surgeon, he spoke to my parents briefly once everything was finished, but had to go back into surgery before I came out of the anesthesia.
> 
> I'm still in a pretty good deal of pain, but I guess that's expected. My pre-surgery symptoms are just about 100% gone, and I'm up and walking around the neighborhood. I can still feel some nerve pain like I had before surgery at sometimes in the day, but I'm sure it's because the whole site is inflamed from surgery. It's getting better by the day.
> 
> Anyways, Really everyone, thanks so much for the support. When I first made this thread I wasn't looking for more than venting, but the community here has been awesome and extremely helpful to me in this rough time.


That's very cool to hear, Sean. Now, just focus on Mentally Building Up! :thumbsup:


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