# Inevitable Endo?



## 5 Star Bomb (May 8, 2010)

I am a newbie to mountain biking and am really enjoying my new found passion. I have been biking since Spring and as a result has lost some weight and am getting in better shape with each ride.

Yesterday I stumbled upon a disturbing story on the internet about a mountain biker who went over the bars and broke his neck. As a result of this injury he is now paralyzed from the neck down. I felt horrible for this man and the story made me re evaluate my passion.

We all know most sports have their dangers and we all must calculate the risks and constantly evaluate what we are capable of on the trail.

However it appears that in mountain biking "going endo" is a right of passage and an inevitable event that happens in our sport.

Maybe I am naive but flying over the handle bars and diving into the ground head first is not something I look forward to and the risks of a catastrophic spine injury seems extremely high.

Can one ride in a conservative way and not endo or crash hard?

Am i over reacting?

Do all endos result in a head dive into the ground?

I ride very conservative and am well aware of my limits but this story really made me think.

Anybody else go thru this when they started?

I appreciate the input


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## slackette (Oct 23, 2009)

The best way to avoid an endo is to get up off your seat and put your butt over your wheel. Put your weight on the back of your bike when rolling down hills or over technical spots. Even if you do endo, you should try to tuck and roll if can remember to do it when this happens. And just because you endo does not mean you will land on your head. Most of the times I have endoed have resulted in me landing sideways, or doing the wrong thing and catching myself with my arms stretched out which is bad because you can break your collar bone or dislocate your shoulder. The most important thing is to look far ahead enough to anticipate where your weight needs to be on your bike in reference to the trail obstacles ahead of you. Hope thos helps and you continue riding. We need more people to join and support this great sport


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

For my 2c, you are probably over-reacting.

There is NO contesting the fact that people have hurt themselves in notable ways. However, it is definitely the exception and not the rule.

You WILL fall at some point, no matter how lucky or conservative you are. I do believe the people which ride very tentatively will tend to crash more than those who are a little more outgoing.

All endos do not result in a head dive.

Endos that DO result in a head dive rarely result in anything more than bruises and contusions.

A much more common result than neck problems will be wrist/arm/collar-bone injuries. Those range from scrapes and bruises to an actual break.

I honestly don't know how I felt when learning these kinds of riding, but I started back in the 70's as a punk kid so I don't think our experience base is similar enough to compare.

What would I advise?

Be reasonable, not excessive. Both in protection, learning, and worrying.

If you can, a skills clinic can be very helpful, beginners and intermediates alike.

Consider getting some inexpensive body armor ( knee pads, elbow pads, that kind of thing ). I roll with a helmet that has good back-of-the-head coverage (made by Fox I think).

No need to go over board, any of the reputable stuff will take the major edge of any wipeout you experience. If other people can find their comfortable level with it all I'm sure you can, and still have a blast.

Such as my friend Marti B. in Texas, a 60-something lady who started mountain biking five or six years ago if I recall correctly ...


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## erginguney (Dec 30, 2005)

I agree with the other responders. Not only do all endos _not_ result in landing on your head, but neither do the ones that are unlucky enough to end with a landing on your head result in breaking your neck, necessarily.

If there were any strength in the correlation "endo = paralysis", you'd see _much_ fewer mountain bikers everywhere.

Would you be safer by staying at home and sitting in front of the TV? Very much so. Is it worth fretting over? Not at all. Can anyone prescribe a guaranteed way of never breaking your neck while biking? I'd like to see them try. Should that stop you from mountain biking? Only _you_ can decide that one.


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## Chrisf_999 (Aug 15, 2008)

Unfortunately I have enduring a few endos over the bars. *L* I have never landed on my head or even hurt my neck. Most of the time, as mentioned before, if you tuck and roll you come out fine...I usually get up shaking my head and laughing. I did hurt my ribs once... I simply wasn't paying close enough attention the the trail ahead. If I Pay Attention to the trail ahead I usually don't have any problems.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

ive endo'd probably 50+ times since i started riding at 8 or 9 years old (27 now), never actually landed flat on my head or ever hurt my neck. these days im more worried about breaking a collar bone or tearing my shoulder again. 

bottom line.. if you ride hard you crash hard. if you dont want to get hurt, consider skipping those huge drops and jumps and slowing down over rocks. 

accidents happen though, but thats life.


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## metalized33 (Aug 21, 2010)

I've pulled a few endos as well, and have only gotten cuts and scrapes, usually on my elbows and knees - not once did my head even hit the ground. Tuck and roll is the key. This being said, my endos were all at reasonably low speeds, and I've been able to react accordingly before I hit the ground. If an endo would occur at high speed, may not be possible to control your landing at all. 

Seat height is also very important. I always drop the seat low if unsure of the trail ahead. Gotta be ready and able to shift your ass behind it quickly - this will save you from 95% of endos.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

My worst endo resulted in a broken helmet,broken nose and 75 stitches in my forehead. 
I had no neck pain whatsoever!


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## Ninja Otter (Feb 3, 2010)

if you worry about everything that can hurt or kill you you'll never leave the house. I've found that the more i think or worry about a section the worse i do. Just relax enjoy the ride and ride within your skill level. Don't give up the sport just yet.


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## erginguney (Dec 30, 2005)

Since we're all sharing our endo experiences here, I should add that my most interesting one was where I hurt my hip bone (in the front) when I landed and nothing else. That should give you an idea as to how much like Superman I must have flown off the bars in order to land "hip-first". I can't say I wish to repeat that, but it was one of my safest landings after an endo, actually.

Usually, though, I'm lucky (and slow) enough to be able to "step over" my handlebars to land on my feet during an endo, and my bike is the only thing that tumbles...

A friend of mine experienced a head-first landing after an endo once where his helmet was split clear into three separate pieces. He suffered from nothing more than a small bruise on his forehead and being a little shaken up. He was able to do the remaining three-mile climb back to the trailhead with no problem at all (minus a helmet). After witnessing that, I wouldn't even ride to the corner store without a helmet!


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## jeffgre_6163 (Jan 23, 2010)

I posted this a couple of months ago - yes neck injuries certainly can happen

A few mates and I regulary get together for a Thursday afternoon ride around the Smithfield Mountain Bike park here in Cairns, Australia.
This park is fantastic and covers all types of terrain from fairly tame XC to full on Black Diamond down hill [they held the world cup at the venue in 1996].
This particular Thursday there were 4 of us.
2 extremely experienced free ride, down hill experts Phill and John, me [average skill but experienced] and Allan, brand new to the game, with a brand new Specialized Enduro, 
What Allan lacked in skill he made up for in enthusiasm.
Allan was very fit, played rugby, born athlete, he had just never riden very much at all before he through himself in to MTB
On our loop is a particular drop off about 9 feet high.
Its a gentle flat run in then it drops vertically for maybe 6 feet before the bottom rolls out in transition very quickly for the last 3 vertical feet.
Essentially you are rolling off/down a 9 feet high verticle clay bank
I have done it about 10 times, but had since decided I did not particularly enjoy the sensation of thinking I was going to go head first in to the ground so I retired from that obstacle.
Allan had tried it once previously but had put too much weight over the rear wheel when he went off the edge that when he hit to roll out at the bottom he accellerated so fast horizontaly that he flipped the bike and wound up on his arse.
No harm done.
This day he did the opposite, determined not to repeat his previous failure.
I did not see what happened as I was taking the B line but I heard the thud as he hit the bottom of the drop.
He had rolled too quick off the edge and gone straight over the bars and landed on his head from at least 14 feet up.
All I heard were the thud and Phill and John go "OH ****".
By the time I got round to the bottom Allan was concious but clearly in big pain.
His helmet had split clean in half and he had a cut on his head from the impact.

Before I go on I must point out one important fact:
Phill is an anesthetist at a local hospital and Allan [our casualty] is an emergency room doctor at the same hospital 
No ****.

After a few minutes Allan insisted he has OK and would walk back to the car, despite our repeated attemps to get him to stay still and for us to get a vehicle or ambulance he instisted on walking the 1km back to the car park.
Very quickly it was clear he was not at all well, he was holding his neck and supporting his head, complaining of stars in his eyes and his vision was getting worse.
By the time we got back to the car he was basically shuffling along as he could not move his head at all and could not see the ground.He was also being supported on both sides by us.

He still refused an ambulance so his girl friend came and got him.
2 hours later she eventually got him to go to the same emergency room he worked.

Allan had 7 [SEVEN] neck fractures.
Apparently he was a hairs width away from death or premanent disability.

All our wives and girlfriends gave us other boys heaps of **** - Why did we not call an ambulance? how could we let him walk out ? etc etc.

He was a doctor for heavens sake! we thought he would have known his own body.

Scariest damn thing I have every seen - 7 neck fractures!
He made a full recovery after months of rehab and surgery to stabilise his neck etc but personally I will never ride anything I don't want to or am totaly comfortable with.

I still get goose bumps when I ride past the drop.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

Interesting story. The take away from it should be to ride within your abilities or push your abilities gradually. Hopefully a newbie won't try hucking off a 9 foot drop off nor be frightened away from mountain biking by stories of the consequences of such stunts. Don't bite off more then you can chew.

I just went over the bars yesterday. It happens. Frankly I was more concerned with damage to my bike then me. We were both fine. Generally its not nearly as bad as you'd think. The possibility is less dangerous then road cycling around cars. The worst injury I've suffered in my endos was a sprained ankle because I tried to land upright.

Building confidence in your riding by gradually pushing your skills is important to prepare you for technical trails. There will be times when you need to let the wheels roll over obstacles but if you're too timid you may be on the breaks too much and end up going over the bars. You don't need to be going fast for that to happen.

My advise, go out and ride. Don't worry about it. Build your skills by gradually pushing yourself. Depending on where you're located you may have some bike camps available. Gene Hamilton comes to mind. He is in the Western US.

http://betterride.net/

2wheels


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## ski_adk (May 10, 2009)

Falls happen. That is for sure an inevitable aspect of pretty much any sport. Injuries happen too. However, there really isn't that much of a correlation between the severity of a fall and the severity of an injury. Some people (myself included) have had some terrifying spills at high speed and jump right up afterwards without a scratch. Other times, some people have been hurt pretty badly just from tipping over from a track stand. Anyways, I guess what I'm trying to say is that sh*t happens and you never know when it'll happen or what will result from it. It just happens...


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## 5 Star Bomb (May 8, 2010)

Hey, Thanks for the input. 

One question. I ride with clipless pedals. Is this unwise for a beginner? Can it make endos worse?


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## [email protected] (Sep 5, 2007)

I've gone over twice and in both cases it was when the front fork complete bottomed out and it happened within miliseconds and no time to react. So one lesson is don't use a low-end noodle fork! Also in both cases, my front tire unexpectedly was stopped dead in it's tracks. The 1st time was a large hole covered by leaves and I still think it was a boobie-trap setup by someone who hates MT bikes, but who knows . The 2nd time was a log pile and a large log was missing from the backside and I couldn't see it until the last second. :madman: 

I now ride a rigid 29er and have never done an endo and of course fork compression is not an issue. I believe the nature of the 29er is less likely to cause an endo because the rider tends to sit within the bike instead of on top or at least mine feels that way and the wheel is less likely to be swallowed-up by a hole...


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## Yody (Jan 21, 2008)

While I tend to rarely go over the bars and typically ride aggressively, I had a bad OTB experience just the other day. Basically pile drived into the ground head first. Busted my pinky finger and broke my helmet but I was curiously lucky to nly have some temporary shoulder pain. Damn lucky. My hand being in a cast really sucks though and for the mean time, can't ride.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

I've been riding some good technical trails for about 4 years now and I endo every time I ride somewhere challenging. I'm not very good at getting behind my saddle, it seems unnatural to me. Usually it is only happening at low speed, which isn't a coincidence. I get nervous at going down techy steeps and combine that with my not getting behind the saddle well and that is why i end up endo'ing. 

I must say though that i'm pretty good at endo'ing and land all right. Ive had a few high speed endo's, which weren't too much fun. I have to say, i'm actually pretty good at crashing. I think i was gifted with some ability to roll out of bad wrecks. 

Most endo's will occur when you are descending something, try to teach yourself to let go of the breaks and gain speed in sketchy situations.


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## Wishful Tomcat (Mar 6, 2009)

Ride a bike with a longer wheelbase/slacker head angle. Going from a SC Superlight (43.1 inches/70 degrees) to a Spec. Enduro ( 46.3 inches/67 degrees) has made quite a difference especially on the downhill technical stuff.


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

5 Star Bomb said:


> One question. I ride with clipless pedals. Is this unwise for a beginner? Can it make endos worse?


Only if they don't release properly. I've spent most of the last 15 years riding clipless, sometimes on some crazy terrain, and only once had a wipeout where the clipless was a disadvantage (you can't pull your foot out sideways from the pedal if you don't twist too). In many ways clipless make life easier because you normally don't have to fight to keep your feet *on* the pedals in rough stuff. If the clips don't release properly then adjust the pedals to lessen the tension on them and/or use a dry-chain-lube on the pedals (like White Lightning) to help make them work more easily.

I will say that for an absolute beginner a lot of comfort can be provided by (improperly) lowering the saddle 1/2 to 1 inch and riding flat pedals. Combined it just makes it trivial to "walk off" the bike and let it crash without you. I do think that if you're already comfortable with riding off-road (which it sounds like you are) then I don't think either of these tactics is truly appropriate at this point - you're already beyond them.


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## jay80424 (Jan 1, 2008)

The chance of you betting seriously hurt from an edno are slim, but it can happen, just like you can get hit be a car walking across the street. Slim, bit still possible.

If your really worried about it, find a nice gentle grassy slope, slowly ride down it, and grab a fistfull of front brake. It's really not that bad. 

idbrian is right, on fast rocky decents, release the front brake and keep your momentum up, shifting weight rearward. 

It's the high speed superman face first into a pile of rocks resulting in a broken helmet and nose, and a 5 mile hike out by yourself and driving yourself to the ER that will get you. I know, i've done it.


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## Puzman (Apr 1, 2004)

*Endos inevitable, broken neck not*

I'm 47 and have been mtn biking seriously for 25 years. I've had more than my share of endos, and the worst injuries I've had are cuts, scrapes, bruises, and a twisted ankle. While serious injuries happen, they can happen in any sport. I'll bet there are more serious injuries/deaths in road biking than in mtn biking, and in driving to the trailhead than in actual riding. That said, here are some things to think about:

1) learn how to fall. A lot of folks talk about judo training, etc. I've never taken any such classes, but I instinctively put my hands in front of my head and roll when falling.

2) learn when to get off and walk. Use common sense. We all like to challenge ourselves by cleaning technical obstacles, but its also good to "know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em". You might get called a wuss by your riding buddies, but if you avoid serious injury by walking around a section that you have serious doubts about, you'll be able to have a longer riding career.

3) if you ride lots of technical terrain, get a bike that helps you out. Slack angles, lots of travel, long wheelbase, big tires, etc.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

bear said:


> I will say that for an absolute beginner a lot of comfort can be provided by (improperly) lowering the saddle 1/2 to 1 inch and riding flat pedals. Combined it just makes it trivial to "walk off" the bike and let it crash without you. I do think that if you're already comfortable with riding off-road (which it sounds like you are) then I don't think either of these tactics is truly appropriate at this point - you're already beyond them.




45 years mountain biking and I still haven't progressed past this point. I'd rather watch my bike crash wile I'm stumbling down the trail behind it.

Endos = hundreds - Injuries = 0

Tell Marti, I thinks she's a hot.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

There are times when riding *too* conservatively can put you over the bar.

That is what happens to me. The positive side there is that it happens at low speed. The worst that has happened to me is about a month's inability to ride a hardtail on trails, because I got a bump in the thigh on the way over the bar.

Learning to fall can help. I think I have some instincts for it from playing in the snow as a kid and a few years of karate later on.


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

Trail Ninja said:


> 45 years mountain biking and I still haven't progressed past this point. I'd rather watch my bike crash wile I'm stumbling down the trail behind it.


Nothing wrong with that!



Trail Ninja said:


> Tell Marti, I thinks she's a hot.


LOL, I'll pass the word on. ;^)



Puzman said:


> but I instinctively put my hands in front of my head and roll when falling.


Actually, putting your hands out to catch yourself is not the greatest form, it makes it much more likely to harm your hand/wrist/arm/collar-bone. If you can do it without actually trying to catch any of your weight/momentum on the aformentioned bits it is good to help you initiate the roll-out, but if you can learn to tuck your arms into your torso and roll across your shoulders you're much more likely to just roll/slide away from any real harm.

Still, pretty much anything is better than going *splat*


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

5 Star Bomb said:


> Can one ride in a conservative way and not endo or crash hard?
> 
> Am i over reacting?
> 
> ...


Yes. You can ride all sorts of ways and not crash. You can ride as cautiously as can be, and wreck on some stupid bit of nothing, after clearing the hard stuff.

Yes.

No.

Sure.

Wrecking doesn't mean you are going to get hurt. Maybe you will, maybe not. Ride, have fun, and try not too worry too much. I find my worst stuff happens when I'm worried about it happening. Self-fulfilling prophecy sort of thing perhaps?


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

bear said:


> Actually, putting your hands out to catch yourself is not the greatest form, it makes it much more likely to harm your hand/wrist/arm/collar-bone. If you can do it without actually trying to catch any of your weight/momentum on the aformentioned bits it is good to help you initiate the roll-out, but if you can learn to tuck your arms into your torso and roll across your shoulders you're much more likely to just roll/slide away from any real harm.
> 
> Still, pretty much anything is better than going *splat*


Supposedly the biggest thing is to keep your elbows down below your shoulders (of if upside down above them  ).

If you catch yourself on your elbow/forearm you are a lot less likely to cause shoulder problems.


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## tshulthise (Apr 23, 2010)

I endo'd last night while night riding. I hit a root I've gone over 50x before with no problems but I wasn't far enough back because I wasn't expecting a problem. Its going to happen to anyone who rides regularly. I pulled my arms in and rolled on my shoulder and back and didn't hurt anything. Having a Camelback on my back reduces chances of hurting my spine due to blunt trauma and is like landing on a pillow.

I agree that the best defense against an endo is to scan the trail at least 3 seconds ahead, GET OFF THE BACK OF THE SEAT on rooty or rocky sections and keep your momentum up. Its hard to teach people to get off the back of the seat because we grew up standing right over it as kids. I've saved certain endo's a few times by just putting my butt over the back tire and unweighting the front wheel when I got into a hairy downhill situation where I missed a line and headed for some big roots or rocks.

Clipless doesn't seem to make this problem any worse. My feet just seem to magically come out when they need to without thinking. Its very much like skiing... they are off before you know it. Clipless pedals seem to save me from more accidents than they cause. I would not recommend them until you are coordinated and confident on your bike though.


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## cabinfever (Feb 6, 2008)

I have had my share of endos. Most recent one finished with landing square on the top of my head. No big damage...sure glad I was wearing a helmet. Saved some stitches for sure. 
I endo'ed once at high speed. One of those where you have time to think while in the air...landed flat on my back with a camelbak on. It was like a mini airbag. Got up laughing and rode on.
You will probably endo at some point. I seem to do it mostly at slow speeds and it is usually good watching for my friends and creates little lasting damage. 
Get out and have fun!


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

I burst my old camelback on an endo though so that sucked. But it was better than the previous one when I cracked my helmet and knocked myself out.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

You will endo at some point. This summer I've had at least two good endos, but zero injuries (bruises and scrapes don't count as long as they're not severe). I never had a problem unclipping in these situations. When push comes to shove, you'll usually find a way out of the pedals.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

bear said:


> Actually, putting your hands out to catch yourself is not the greatest form, it makes it much more likely to harm your hand/wrist/arm/collar-bone.*


I can remember two in particular descending endo's that when i came to a halt my two hands were palm down on rock in a push up fashion and my neck arc'd back with my face a centimeter from boulder. Putting your hands out to catch you on endo is just fine. It sucks to hurt your arms or wrists, but i believe the ultimate goal i have is to not hurt head.

I don't personally don't believe i could learn a form of fall. I think it is instinctive.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

idbrian said:


> Putting your hands out to catch you on endo is just fine.


That can be a good way to break your clavicle too.


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## onemission (Aug 11, 2010)

leatte brace anyone?


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

idbrian said:


> I don't personally don't believe i could learn a form of fall. I think it is instinctive.


i know what you mean. i've been falling off bikes for so long I don't think i could come up with a way to teach someone else how to. ;^)


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

About falling:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=637974


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## BOAB (Sep 11, 2008)

Just hang on to the bar, you should just swivel right over.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm 58, my first endo was when I was nine, I've had lots of endos, and other flying through the air crashes. I usually tuck and roll. Most crashes I've rolled out of. I learned to automatically tuck and roll from surfing. I'm sure there are other ways to learn to tuck and roll, but it's a good skill. My wife says I'm really good at crashes. Oh well. Go ride, have fun, relax, and keep your weight back.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2010)

Oh yeah, one more thing, keep your hand, off the front brake. I've seen lots of people endo by grabbing the front brake. Learn to use the front brake without grabbing it.


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## manabiker (Jul 18, 2010)

Stories are sometimes just that, Stories,(especially internet stories) I raced/ride motorcycles, I have for 45 yrs, if I had listened to, and believed all the stories, (thats negativity, I ignore it, I dont' look at accidents either, if I can't help the people) I'd never get out the house if I listened to that negativity, gain knowledge, confidence, and experience, don't get ahead of yourself, believe in yourself, think possitive, don't drink or do drugs and ride, and you may live as long as me..LOL and take this with you, "GOOD LUCK"


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Endo's let me know I am alive. I almost get pleasure out of falling. I don't know how to explain it. A scrape here, cut there, bruises all over. Maybe I just haven't fallen hard enough. I am always scared to wreck but once it happens, I am like.... that wasn't too bad. Kind of like giving a speech you were nervous about.


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

jeffgre_6163 said:


> He was a doctor for heavens sake! we thought he would have known his own body.


The guy landed on his head, split his helmet, and you let _him_ make the decisions???
Just 'cuz someone is a doctor doesn't mean he is magically immune from the effects of a head injury. 
Your anethesiologist friend should have known better. YOU should have known better.


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## turnerth (Aug 4, 2010)

5 Star Bomb said:


> I ride with clipless pedals. Is this unwise for a beginner?


If you feel like you are not comfortable in clipless pedals I would not use them. My $.02 use platforms until you are 99% comfortable and feel like you want more - then use toe clips until you are 99% comfortable and feel like you want more - then use clipless.



5 Star Bomb said:


> Can it make endos worse?


I sure makes it easer to do - harder to "walk" out.



idbrian said:


> I don't personally don't believe i could learn a form of fall. I think it is instinctive.


I ski, snowboard, play hockey, and mountain/road bike have been doing all for 30+ years (back in the day it was BMX). I figure I have fallen more than 99.9% of the general population - many on this board are in the same boat. My $.02 if you do not feel comfortable standing and jumping/diving onto a carpeted floor (or mat) and rolling out you may not be all that safe. You may not enjoy the experience on carpet, but you should feel comfortable doing it.. I know I do. Of course there are falls that happen too quickly and then instinct is all you have, but there are often slower falls where you can develop skills in advance to deal with them. Start with somersaults and move on from there.

Also when you go down - keep your thumbs in, or risk thumb sprain (or worse).

"Luck favors the prepared mind" - Chinese proverb.

rage on


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## swampboy62 (Feb 10, 2009)

Adim_X said:


> Endo's let me know I am alive. I almost get pleasure out of falling. I don't know how to explain it. A scrape here, cut there, bruises all over. Maybe I just haven't fallen hard enough. I am always scared to wreck but once it happens, I am like.... that wasn't too bad. Kind of like giving a speech you were nervous about.


I know exactly where you're coming from. It's not like you WANT to crash, but when it happens and you shake it off, it's like paying your dues.

Of course that was mostly before I broke my leg in two places, and then tore the cartilage big time in the same knee - all within 9 months. Now that I have the "knee of glass" I'm reaaaallly not interested in crashing any more.

Steve Z


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

Funny I read this earlier and endod on tonight's ride pretty bad. Hit a root and went straight OTB. On my 29er to boot! But it was OK, decent landing. That's when my seat spiked me in the back. Still, not too bad, I think quietly to myself. That's when the frame fell sideways and slammed my legs between it and the bars. 

Dammit.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

turnerth said:


> use platforms until you are 99% comfortable and feel like you want more - then use toe clips until you are 99% comfortable and feel like you want more - then use clipless.


I'd skip the "toe clips" (cages). Getting out of clipless pedals is faster, and more likely to happen automagically during an unplanned dismount.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

manabiker said:


> I'd never get out the house if I listened to that negativity, gain knowledge, confidence, and experience


Lots of people have died in their homes ...


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## Ride Naked (Sep 1, 2010)

BOAB said:


> Just hang on to the bar, you should just swivel right over.


HAHA...classic


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## DJ Giggity (Sep 9, 2008)

Everything you need to know is right here. Language NSFW.


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

perttime said:


> Lots of people have died in their homes ...


Isn't the home "where most accidents occur"?

Seriously, I met a person who fractured her ankle stepping off a curb. It doesn't make me scared to step off a curb...
Accidents happen, and the difference between a bad outcome and being just fine can be a matter of millimeters. There's a thread on the forums right now about a guy who stuck a brake lever into his leg when he crashed. If he'd hit an artery things might not have turned out too well for him.
You have to decide for yourself if the risk is worth the reward.


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## Keepthechange (May 18, 2010)

You're gonna eat it eventually, doesn't matter how careful you are. If you live your life fearing what could be you're gonna live a very boring life


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## waterdogs (Jun 18, 2010)

Like everyone else has said.... Given: you are going to crash. 

Now, I didn't read every word of every post (not sure it was mentioned) and I am no Doctor, but I do believe that eating right and exercising helps bone density, joint strength and overall internal resilience. Yes, I know everyone is different, but it passes the make sense test. Get in the gym, build up those shoulders, arms, neck muscles. Eat a good balanced diet to make sure you have enough calicum, etc. I do all of the previous and have fallen many times, but I get right up and go. 

If anything, it will make your quality of life better, ridiing or not.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

Wear the appropriate gear...


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

s0ckeyeus said:


> That can be a good way to break your clavicle too.


You'd have a hard time convincing me that putting my arms out and catching myself from smashing my face on rock was a bad idea.

"why did you take the impact all in your face?"
"i didn't want to break my clavicle"

I don't think i would even try to instruct a friend on how to crash. I'd be more likely to just notice that the person doesn't crash very well and instruct him to be more cautious and easier on his progression into techy terrain. I've done that before.


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## Cday1616 (Oct 12, 2009)

I took a nasty OTB into a ceramic pipe/hardpack 2 weeks ago. Jammed up my shoulder pretty good but tucked and rolled out of it. Talked to the doctor I work for and he looked the shoulder over for any problems...afterwards he said I was very lucky not to have fractured my collarbone and said due to my other activities (gym rat to the maximum) that I had increased bone density to absorb a shot like that.

If anyone remembers Stefon Johnson from USC dropping a failed 275 pd bench on his throat and surviving it... that was because he had the muscualture to support a stress like that. To joe everyman that barbell goes clean through his throat and crushes the spine.

End point is this, dont neglect the importance of getting to the gym. We all love riding our bikes as much as possible, but diversify your training and lift heavy and correct. Who knows when it will save you from a couple months of watching your buds ride without you.
 

Cheers,
Chris


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

idbrian said:


> You'd have a hard time convincing me that putting my arms out and catching myself from smashing my face on rock was a bad idea.
> 
> "why did you take the impact all in your face?"
> "i didn't want to break my clavicle"


It's not an either/or situation.

Just sticking your arm out isn't very effective. You don't want to catch yourself. If you go down with your arms a little bent and focus on deflecting the impact, rather than absorbing it, you will have a better chance of getting out without serious injury.


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## tjchad (Aug 15, 2009)

I endo'd my BMX as a kid once- got bored with our home built track so we started riding it in the opposite direction. This made us have to bunny hop over the jumps to make it over the now higher landing ramps. I missed one and my foot came off the pedal right into the space between the front wheel and fork. Almost tore my two smallest toes off and I flipped over and landed on a stump- right in the middle of my back. I walked out to the street *****ing about hurting- I was 10 at the time. Sat on the curb *****ing about my back and foot hurting. But I was feeling alright. It's when I took off my shoe and sock and saw all the blood that scared me. I ended up riding the mile or so home and then my dad took me to the doc for stitches- found out they don't want to do stitches between toes. I just got taped up and good to go.


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## tjchad (Aug 15, 2009)

See above- can't type the B word for complaining, eh?


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## wallaby123 (May 6, 2010)

> Now, I didn't read every word of every post (not sure it was mentioned) and I am no Doctor, but I do believe that eating right and exercising helps bone density, joint strength and overall internal resilience. Yes, I know everyone is different, but it passes the make sense test. Get in the gym, build up those shoulders, arms, neck muscles. Eat a good balanced diet to make sure you have enough calicum, etc. I do all of the previous and have fallen many times, but I get right up and go.


+1 :thumbsup:


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## turnerth (Aug 4, 2010)

perttime said:


> I'd skip the "toe clips" (cages). Getting out of clipless pedals is faster, and more likely to happen automagically during an unplanned dismount.


I have heard this before, not my experience, but respect the opinion. Perhaps my opinion stems from my using cages for many years in my own transition to clipless.


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## amishscum (Nov 12, 2006)

Clipless aren't any more dangerous than flats if the tension is adjusted properly. Your feet should just pop right out, no thought required.


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