# Competitive Clyde XC Racers?



## unicorn_violence (Jan 30, 2017)

Hello fellow tall/heavy riders.
I'm looking for some motivation. I would like to hear about any clydes that are competitive in their local XC races.

I'm a clydesdale looking to become competitive in the cat 2/3 class(called sport here) for 2021. Sitting right now @ 6ft 4, 210lbs, 13%bf, FTP 260, age 30.
I raced 1 race this last summer, and I was in top 4 of clydesdale class. Time wise(45 minutes total) I was middle of the pack of the sport class(cat2/3), and only 4 minutes off the slowest cat 1 racers. I was 3 minutes faster than the other clydes 5th and below which makes me think I need to move up to sport.
The other race I did was just 4 days later, and I got 1st place in clyde. Time wise I would of been 2nd place in beginner(cat4/5). I was again in the middle of sport in terms of lap times.

Planning on fully committing to trainer road/diet to get ready for the 2021 season(mostly just biked a bunch in 2020). my end goal is to podium sport and move up to open or cat 1, but I don't know how realistic that is since I'm a clyde.

I would love to hear of any other clydes here that are competitive at their local races. How long have you trained, how many podiums, ftp, classes you raced, etc. Give me some motivation!

Cheers!


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

210 pounds is not so heavy for a guy who's 6'4". As you mentioned, 13% BF, not too bad as it goes for a starting point. However for your height, the FTP could use some work. 

When it comes to racing, watts/kg makes a huge difference. I believe a lot of people think their training has made them faster, when in fact it's the weight loss that's mostly the cause of the gains, especially in XC races with a lot of changes of directions and short hills.

For the new you, I'd focus on two targets: 190 pounds and a 300w FTP. Do that, work on your cornering skills, and you'll be competitive in Cat 1.


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## carlhulit (Sep 13, 2005)

I don't race any more but won quite a few races at 6'3" 190 in the expert category. Never trained with power but at 13%BF you could easily loose 15lbs. Ride a bunch, maybe get a real training plan and your size won't hold you back it cat 1. Don't expect to keep up with the pros though.


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## brawlo (Mar 13, 2012)

Not a racer off-road myself but have been competitive on road and track. I recall a friend that races XC once said to me he hates the road riders as they power up hills much easier but they didn’t have the skill set off-road and so he got them back on the downs. He now incorporates a lot more road riding into his training. For myself, I finally became a consistent MTB rider over Covid, but the fitness was much less than what I get from road riding and the longer higher intensity efforts


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

With your frame, i would be focused on the power over the weight loss. 260 is not very high. And mid 300s are completely attainable over time. 

I know it may seem crazy to think about those ftp numbers. progression will not be linear, but you will get to 300+ over time.

At the time you reach 300 watt FTP your body will change a bit naturally with the training and additional riding. If you are a good bike handler, you will be a force in Cat 2 and will be a respectible cat 1 racer. Aome courses just wont suit you due yo yhe climbs. 

You can do some serious damage at 185 and a 330 watt FTP. 


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Fast guys over 200 lbs? Know any?


I'm curious how many fast guys are out there over the 200 lb mark? I'm not necessarily asking about elite WC racers, but local/regional amateurs that make podiums and such. Just curious how common/uncommon it is?




www.mtbr.com


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

You asked a valid question there a couple of years ago Onespeed, and didn't get a single useful response. I should have been there to help you 

I'm 6'4" and have been 175lbs at my lightest (Pro/1 category) and 228 pounds at my fat-Elvis burnout phase over the past 3 years, so I know the difference in performance, and it's substantial. Bottom line is that watts/kg is what XC racing is all about. Getting skinny is not what the chicks dig, no doubt, but it's basically required above Cat 2.

I'm scaling back my competitiveness but I know if I want to be competitive in the spring for Cat 1 40+ I'll need to be 180-190 pounds. My FTP is still strong, almost no drop off, I have a diesel engine, not much in the way of sprinting but very strong legs and can push ~250w for hours.

I considered climbing one of my strengths when I was lighter and it was rarely a problem to hang with the little guys, in fact I enjoyed it. However climbing is now a weakness for me at around 195. Power climbs of <30 seconds are no problem, it's when your weight catches up with you and you have to grind it out.

But enough rhetoric, let's do the math:

210 pounds (95.25 kg), 300w = 3.15 w/kg
180 pounds (81.65 kg), 300w = 3.6742 w/kg

To do a simulated 300ft climb in 5 minutes, at 210 lb, you'd need 313w, which should be within OP's ability.
With the same 313w at 180 pounds, you could finish it in 4:17.



Cycling Performance Simplified : Power while Climbing Calcultor



Let's look at OP's current FTP and watts/kg

210 pounds, 260w FTP = 2.73 w/kg. That is in the "Cat 5 Male roadie" range which is fair considering his Cat 2 competitiveness.

Depending upon your series, you'd need to get well into Cat 4 roadie FTP territory to compete in Cat 1 age group men. So to get to 3.5 w/kg, you'd need to be:

180 pounds with a 286w FTP, or 190 pounds with a 302w FTP.

^ Pretty much in line with what I was advising above. I know this probably feels theoretical, but this is far better than listening to everybody's anecdotes. OP and Onespeed if you want to get faster, this is a good starting point. We all try real hard, but you'll bury yourself after the first few minutes trying to overcome dead weight in an XC race.

One final anecdote, the example of Sir Bradley Wiggins, the hour record holder and Tour De France champ. His pro racing weight on track was, at 6'3", 183 pounds, with one of the best FTPs ever at 460+w. He needed to slim down to a sickening 157 pounds to compete on the climbs with the best in the world and win the Tour De France.









Bradley Wiggins gains over 11kg as he prepares for Olympic team pursuit


Sir Brad posts photo of scales showing his current weight versus that in 2014




www.cyclingweekly.com





Post-cycling career he pursued a rowing championship and balooned up over 200 pounds.












*OneSpeed* said:


> Fast guys over 200 lbs? Know any?
> 
> 
> I'm curious how many fast guys are out there over the 200 lb mark? I'm not necessarily asking about elite WC racers, but local/regional amateurs that make podiums and such. Just curious how common/uncommon it is?
> ...


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

6’2” 205 here so just barely Clyde. Took 3rd place a couple times in the last two years. Not super impressive but fun to be on the podium. I’m 48 and motivated to be faster as well so losing weight is a goal but if I can get down to 190-195 then I’m below Clyde weight. My wife says I look too skinny below 200.


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## unicorn_violence (Jan 30, 2017)

chomxxo said:


> 210 pounds is not so heavy for a guy who's 6'4". As you mentioned, 13% BF, not too bad as it goes for a starting point. However for your height, the FTP could use some work.
> 
> When it comes to racing, watts/kg makes a huge difference. I believe a lot of people think their training has made them faster, when in fact it's the weight loss that's mostly the cause of the gains, especially in XC races with a lot of changes of directions and short hills.
> 
> For the new you, I'd focus on two targets: 190 pounds and a 300w FTP. Do that, work on your cornering skills, and you'll be competitive in Cat 1.


thanks for all the helpful info so far! i think 190 and 300 ftp is totally achievable. i started 2020 at 230 and lost 20lbs over the year just from eating healthy. i did not do any weight training, and i apparently didn't follow a training plan either. i looked back at my stats for the year, and i could of sworn i did the base plan on TR at least, but it turns out i just did about half before covid kicked in and i just rode outside 3 to 4 times a week instead(with a seldom trainer interval here and there). my FTP at the start of 2020 was 212.

im hoping that if i was able to get that much faster with a more casual effort this year, that putting my head down and getting serious with the training in 2021 can get me another +40 ftp. fingers crossed!


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## OttaCee (Jul 24, 2013)

Been competitively racing for about 5 years - im 6'2" and weighted between 225 and 240lbs. Our race series (covers New England) has a generic Clydesdale category that runs with the Cat 2 and Cat 3 racers and course distance. While there isnt a massive pool of racers, have won the overall series in 2018 and 2nd overall in 2019. My biggest race win was New Englands largest mt bike race with over 30 Clydesdale racers who all were real Cat 2-Cat-3 racers. Comparing my times to Cat 2, would of been middle of the pack for most races I podiumed for Clydesdale. 

Three things I did to improve my results - Use my weight to become an excellent descender, is crazy how much faster once you get that big mass moving on a bike. Get a road/gravel bike, this by far helped the most in increasing my FTP. If your Strava user, favorite a nice long flat segment 2-4 miles and just keep improving constant power/speed. In one summer I increased my FTP from 220 to 273. Learned how to fuel, hydrate and prepare my body for racing - Hammering at 10mph for 12-15 miles takes a toll on your body, learned through experimenting what my body needed for fuel, how to properly hydrate pre, during and post race, then stretching, therapy, proper recovery make my body ready for race season (when its races back-to-back for 2 months straight). 

While my last FTP test was 291, learning the fundamentals of line choice, passing strategy, pacing made me more competitive than my power measurements under non-race simulation. Feel once you have the core skills, then work on power output. Like someone said above, during a race we can tell who are the roadies, they can hammer but once the trail requires skill they cannot keep up.


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

210lbs and built up to a 300w ftp over the last 2 years from a starting point of 210w. Build up that engine and use the strength to your advantage to wreck people on the downs and flats. Use technology to help get you up climbs (12spd, lightweight bike and wheels etc).

Doing long gravel grinds has helped along with focused XC type marathon rides and events. I put a power meter on my MTB and was surprised by how much time I wasn’t pedaling or working that hard. I now use my noisy i9 hub as a “why aren’t you pedaling” alarm lol.

I have found now though that cornering skill is holding me back more than fitness... out pedaling my skill level. So be sure to work on the skills too.

Here in the KC area Clyds class is 220lbs so I am stuck fighting it out in Cat 2 with people 70lbs less. So not many podiums, but I do love tearing legs off people who assume the big guy can’t hang with them.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Dont take that FtP chart as gospel. That power chart is for road classes, not MTB. Mtb is wildly dependent on skills, selling out jn the start/tactics, and the mental game. People let off the gas when they no longer see someone to chase.

My advice after this season is go race in the regular XC class. Bigger fields of racers hopefully that will teach you more. Or race both. Races if you can.

My first full season of cat 3 dropped me from Clyde to 187 pounds. The motivation of the season curbed my appetite for junk and alcohol.

Between seasons i focused riding smooth, not over braking. I read "mountain Bike Like a Champion" and learned a lot. This is so important as a heavy rider because it consumes more energy to get back up to speed than it does to accelerate a lighter rider. You will notice this will be death by a 1000 paper cuts if you get behind someone who constantly slows you down. You must become a very good negotiator and get around these people when you notice this happening.

When you are at full speed, you have the advantage of more power, as the guy above mentioned. It will take you many many races to learn how to dole this out and nit let them draft you. FTP is not everything and they aren't all faster than you everywhere on the course.

Keep in mind I have a big repeatable sprint and usually better handling relative to my peers. SHORT 
My first season of cat 3 i finished 3rd for the season and grabbed 1 1st. I catted up immediately in the fall and git my face kicked in in cat 2. 

Later 
At 190 with 270 watt FTP i snagged a bunch of 5ths in Cat 2

At high 180s with 285 FTP. I was racing for 1-2-3 regularly would have been good for 9-12th in cat 1.

Im still in 180s with low 300s. Ive been on the podium of Cat 1 all season. It is still very dangerous for me go get stuck behind a rider who doesnt descend or corner as well. All my advantage is gone. Ideally i get in front, gap them and i can Let them come back on a climb, or keep the hammer down and build the gap. You will learn this the hard way over 20-50 races, so I share it with you now.

The nice thing about cat 1 is people are so aware and they will just let you around. In Cat 3 and even cat 2( and marathon) people just don't have ettiequte and sometime they will just not yield/intentionally block) a pass and your race is pretty much over as the front 3 get away.

I race with a lit of guys who are somewhere along your path. Many of them started at 240-260 pounds with what was probably a low 200 FTP. Some are under 200 now, and their FTP are all up in the high 200s. They can win cat 2 races and are ready for cat 1 class.

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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

6', 250-270lbs depending on IPA consumption. LOL. I race 2-6 times a year.

While I am competitive, I stopped worrying about the podium years ago. WAY too many sand-baggers. If you're racing Cat2 and my lap times are within a cpl minutes of Cat1, AND I finish mid-pack-there are sand baggers. I still like racing but I know unless I race Cat3, I'm not gonna podium. I see it all the time, at every race.

Also, the "Clydesdale" weight for most events is WAY TOO FREAKING LIGHT. A 6' tall, 220lb male is NOT a clyde. 250lbs+or 220lbs if you're 5'6".


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## Cygrace724 (Jan 8, 2021)

Being a guy who has always rode for fun and only been riding a year I have gone from 305 down to 265 and giving XC a go this year. Weighing 265 with a ftp of 241 I know I'll be in for a struggle and I imagine I should probably just do the Clydesdale class this year.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Cygrace724 said:


> Being a guy who has always rode for fun and only been riding a year I have gone from 305 down to 265 and giving XC a go this year. Weighing 265 with a ftp of 241 I know I'll be in for a struggle and I imagine I should probably just do the Clydesdale class this year.


Just fo cat 3. Or cat 3?and clyde of they are different times.

My father in law races cat 3 and is 240 with a 215 FTP. You would destroy him. Who you wont beat is someone starting racing who has the fitness and weight go already be in cat 2.

Just race to train and gain experience.

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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

First race's goal is to just finish. FJ's correct, race Cat3 and decide.

Around here, if the race course is 7-11 mi loop, Cat3 (one lap) goes first, then 60-90 mins later Cat2 (two laps), then 90min - 2hrs later Cat1's (3 laps). Sometimes Cat2-3's will be combined depending on number of racers. Marathon/enduro racers are released with Cat2's. Women are started in their respective groups 15-20 min's ahead of the men.

My biggest piece of advice: talk. Talk to the other racers. Tell them when you want to pass, tell them when they can pass, tell them about an approaching obstacle especially if you're out front, offer them assistance if they're struggling. Chances are the rider passing you (or vice versa) isn't even in your age group.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Chase the watts not weight. You are a big guy, who is relativity lean, there is weight to lose but for you real gains are going to come through watts. Assuming you have average potential, a guy your size should who trains with dedication and focus for 6-8 months should see an FTP in that 330-380 range.

Generally a by-product of dedicated training is weight loss, particularly if you have a lot of extra weight to lose. For race performance the general order is find the watts, and then if you still need to lose some weight do so.


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

I agree with the above (to a point). You are young enough and for your height not too heavy, hitting 330w should be doable with a proper structured training plan. Doubly so if you have any sort of history training for other sports. 
After that 330w... pushing up to that 4wkg takes more and more training effort/time and it stops being a linear process like when you first start. GL


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TazMini said:


> I agree with the above (to a point). You are young enough and for your height not too heavy, hitting 330w should be doable with a proper structured training plan. Doubly so if you have any sort of history training for other sports.
> After that 330w... pushing up to that 4wkg takes more and more training effort/time and it stops being a linear process like when you first start. GL
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have found that big guys often really respond to training. A big frame, usually has a big set of lungs and a big heart that really adapt to appropriate loading. The limiter a lot of time is cooling that big engine. Heat training, and heat management strategies is so important for big guys racing in even moderately warm conditions.


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

LMN said:


> The limiter a lot of time is cooling that big engine. Heat training, and heat management strategies is so important for big guys racing in even moderately warm conditions.


Yeah that is a big one. Told the wife I bought her a sauna for her health and relaxing, but in truth it was for me to do heat acclimation training early in the season.

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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Where are these races where 180-190lbs and a ftp of 300 gets you onto the Cat 1 podium? My w/kg of 4.7-5.0 was enough for top 10 at SoHo, top half at Sea Otter, and 10th at Nats.

On topic: I've found that losing excess weight can often yield increased power too. Presumably because fat cells require oxygen too. It's only once I get down to a BF% where losing weight means losing a higher proportion of muscle that counteracts the gain.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

"competitive," didn't say podium. This is about him, not us.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

chomxxo said:


> "competitive," didn't say podium. This is about him, not us.


Fair point. It depends on the pool of people whom you deem to be your competition.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Moving up to Cat 1 is always intimidating. There's rarely anybody who cats up and starts winning immediately. I do remember experiencing that with a guy who was riding his singlespeed behind me at a race in Mississippi, cheerfully chatting me up like he's on a Sunday ride while I'm suffering, doing my best to win. That guy later became a national champ US pro cyclocross racer 





STEPHEN HYDE







stephen-hyde.com





I'd like to think it's where everybody that's dedicated to racing ends up. A lot of guys stay in Cat 2 but I feel strongly it's a developmental category--if you excel there, you should move up and give opportunities for others.


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

chomxxo said:


> I'd like to think it's where everybody that's dedicated to racing ends up. A lot of guys stay in Cat 2 but I feel strongly it's a developmental category--if you excel there, you should move up and give opportunities for others.


We have so many Cat 2 sandbaggers that "don't wanna work that hard" in Cat 1 at local events so they just squat at the top of Cat 2 year after year.

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## unicorn_violence (Jan 30, 2017)

bikeranzin said:


> Where are these races where 180-190lbs and a ftp of 300 gets you onto the Cat 1 podium? My w/kg of 4.7-5.0 was enough for top 10 at SoHo, top half at Sea Otter, and 10th at Nats.


I'm in Colorado. Denver to be specific. the races I'm looking were local front range races. most of the competitive people in CO tend to do the marathon type stuff. Leadville 100, Breck Epic, Telluride 100 etc. the races I'm referring to are smaller and only 1 to 1.5 hour races.
300w at 190 could probably get me to CAT 2 at some of the local races i think. CAT 1 is another story.
to be fair, the races you just listed off tend to attract some of the top pros in the US.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

unicorn_violence said:


> I'm in Colorado. Denver to be specific. the races I'm looking were local front range races. most of the competitive people in CO tend to do the marathon type stuff. Leadville 100, Breck Epic, Telluride 100 etc. the races I'm referring to are smaller and only 1 to 1.5 hour races.
> 300w at 190 could probably get me to CAT 2 at some of the local races i think. CAT 1 is another story.
> to be fair, the races you just listed off tend to attract some of the top pros in the US.


Yeah, I just left Boulder actually. You're definitely right that CO races tend to be marathon-y. Don't forget these races btw: Gunnison Growler, Firecracker 50, and the Steamboat Stinger (Emerald Mountain Epic nowadays); they're fantastic races. I think you're right, [email protected] will do pretty well in Cat 2. And USAC races tend to be pretty low attendance in CO, so you can easily find yourself at the front or the back of the field based on who shows up. The Pikes Peak Apex that happened in September had a crazy fast field because it was the only major US race that I'm aware of.

Based on the CO race structures, the way I've seen it is that Sport tends to be Cat 3 / Back of cat 2, Expert is cat 2 / back of cat 1, and cat 1 is mid to back of Pro/Open. So, with dedication, I'm sure you could be a force in Expert. Especially if you are able to ride a high IF for the marathon durations. Another thing, btw, about CO racing is that being able to hold steady big watts is more important than being able to go redline and repeat. This is because many of the races are organized around 1 or 2 major climbs, so being punchy isn't super helpful. Train that sweet spot and threshold, and only hit VO2 max work hard if the way you adapt to stimulus is through that (that's how my body works, and threshold work does slim to nothing for me).


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Jaroslav Kulhavý XCO etc , 6'2" ,168lbs 

for reference to size and weight at the highest level

not much else to add


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

bikeranzin said:


> Where are these races where 180-190lbs and a ftp of 300 gets you onto the Cat 1 podium? My w/kg of 4.7-5.0 was enough for top 10 at SoHo, top half at Sea Otter, and 10th at Nats.
> 
> On topic: I've found that losing excess weight can often yield increased power too. Presumably because fat cells require oxygen too. It's only once I get down to a BF% where losing weight means losing a higher proportion of muscle that counteracts the gain.


Are you responding to me? Or the OP? Seems directed at me and also adds no value others than being a jerk.

I personally prefer to race on trails that host races, not jeep roads BS they call a course. You have documented some of the worst examples of "mountain biking". Sea otter and nationals courses are a joke. They are everything that gives XC a bad name.

The fact that you can't podium age group cat 1 with 5 w/kg says A. Your power profile is not conducive b. Your ability to handle a bike or the level of risk you are willing to accept on a course is lower than others c. Your basic ability to perform in races and race craft aren't as good as your competitors

HourPower to weight isn't the determining factor of podium in mountain bike race on real trail. The amount of watts you have to use at your disposal matter including how much you can repeat efforts at efforts far above FTP. If we are going to ride up a jeep road for 20 minutes, it's very important and it's going to be very hard to overcome the w/kg equation.

For reference, I have friends that are at 4.9-5.0 w/kg are on podium in regional pro races and capable of beating and riding with elite riders

But at nationals you experience the Extremely sad fact that some people's egos are SO big that they race down in age group so they can win vs fighting for a top 10 finish in the pro/elite. The women's 30-34 and men's classes in 30s and 40s have this. You have "retired" racer/ active coaches putting in 20 hours per week who just stopped racing UCI World Cup entering age group at US nationals. They probably do that at other races if they do it there.

I see that crap in our state too. You go to the line with someone. Me: dude what are you doing in age group? Them: "Oh I haven't ridden much this week.""I put on a few pounds this month"

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## Mongoguy (Oct 16, 2019)

unicorn_violence said:


> Hello fellow tall/heavy riders.
> I'm looking for some motivation. I would like to hear about any clydes that are competitive in their local XC races.
> 
> I'm a clydesdale looking to become competitive in the cat 2/3 class(called sport here) for 2021. Sitting right now @ 6ft 4, 210lbs, 13%bf, FTP 260, age 30.
> ...


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

bikeranzin said:


> Where are these races where 180-190lbs and a ftp of 300 gets you onto the Cat 1 podium? My w/kg of 4.7-5.0 was enough for top 10 at SoHo, top half at Sea Otter, and 10th at Nats.


Iceman is one example, www.iceman.com.


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