# Should we race a tandem?



## Hollywood (Dec 30, 2003)

should Hollywood and aosty team up and race a tandem on Saturday?

I've never ridden a mountain tandem, let alone raced one. Sounds perfect.

not sure on aosty's experience, but it can't be much more than mine.

See: train wreck.

aosty = captain
HW = *****


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

Shoot, I've got nothing to wear.


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

I voted.
Unfortunately I couldn't pick "Go for it" and "you guys are queer".


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## Dan'ger (Aug 26, 2004)

teamdicky said:


> I voted.
> Unfortunately I couldn't pick "Go for it" and "you guys are queer".


I had the same problem so I balanced out your vote


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

aosty said:


> Shoot, I've got nothing to wear.


Maybe that's how Hollywood wants it. 
(see "you guys are queer" option).


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## Hollywood (Dec 30, 2003)

*perfect*



aosty said:


> Shoot, I've got nothing to wear.


I have *almost nothing* to wear.


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## fred-da-trog (Oct 28, 2003)

Heck yeah...at least wear a helmet and shoes...:ciappa:...:eekster:


.


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## Dirt_Diggler (Jun 7, 2006)

teamdicky said:


> I voted.
> Unfortunately I couldn't pick "Go for it" and "you guys are queer".


also my problem. to pull it off with style you must wear:

1) all black
2) all pink
3) suites, fedoras, and dark glasses; or
4) fishnet

good luck


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## jeffh (Jun 7, 2006)

Absolutely ! :thumbsup: 

What happens at Sea Otter stays at Sea Otter,

Sounds dangerous  but not for a couple of professionals like you two.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*blues bros*



Dirt_Diggler said:


> also my problem. to pull it off with style you must wear:
> 
> 1) all black
> 2) all pink
> ...


3:thumbsup:


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

Crap, another fast tandem that's going to pass me?

Just make it a quick pass on the racetrack, instead of bumping me off the ST downhill.

let's see a pic!


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## K-max (Feb 20, 2004)

Can 3 people fit on a tandem? If so, I want a ride.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

ohmigod


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## Sean Allan (May 4, 2005)

I say go for it. My wife and I used to race the tandem at S.O. every year, it was a good time. We quit after the second year in a row of my wife being the only female on the podium, it was mostly just guys riding with guys, not the spirit of the class if you ask me. That being said, it is what it is, mostly guys riding with guys, not the easiest thing in the world if you are not used to it, but then again neither is racing with your PMS raging wife


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

K-max said:


> Can 3 people fit on a tandem? If so, I want a ride.


Sure, there's a rear rack! :thumbsup:


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## Hollywood (Dec 30, 2003)

Dirt_Diggler said:


> to pull it off with style you must wear:
> 
> 1) all black


Team Evil in the house.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

rensho said:


> Crap, another fast tandem that's going to pass me?


no.

personally I will buy aosty and hollywood dinner if they make it around the course without the thing falling apart. it has never hit dirt.

actaully I'll buy drinks too if I don't catch you.

omigod.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Oooooh!*



Impy said:


> no.
> 
> personally I will buy aosty and hollywood dinner if they make it around the course without the thing falling apart. it has never hit dirt.
> 
> ...


They're going to bring the KHS Tandem that was in your shop? Dang, they are braver than I thought! Heavy steel frame, rigid, v-brakes?!? Remember that when the brakes and rims get too hot, you blow the innertube. I smell another helicopter ride to the ER. IIRC, the stoker seat was more Impy's size.


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## gpsser (Jan 5, 2004)

No, if Al is Captain, that makes you Tennille, my friend :thumbsup:










That would be a combo on the tandem that would be worth seeing....



Hollywood said:


> should Hollywood and aosty team up and race a tandem on Saturday?
> ..........
> aosty = captain
> HW = *****


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## Plim (Dec 8, 2004)

I was tempted to take my road tandem, put some cross tires on it, recruit a stoker, and race. The combination of using a stoker with whom I've had no practice, taking a tandem offroad for the first time, and a course I don't know would have ensured entertainment for all, a possible hospital visit, and almost sure damage or destruction of a very expensive tandem. 

Luckily, it turns out I won't be at SOC so that temptation has been removed. It's up to you guys to get it done. Make sure you don't ride a tandem together at all before race start for maximum hilarity.


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## Hollywood (Dec 30, 2003)

Plim said:


> Make sure you don't ride a tandem together at all before race start for maximum hilarity.


we took it on a hot-lap around the neighborhood last night. Maybe 10-15 min. worth of road riding. It wasn't easy. Is it wrong to start drinking heavily before 7:30am?


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

*Obligatory*

Some one has to post this:


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## Plim (Dec 8, 2004)

Hollywood said:


> we took it on a hot-lap around the neighborhood last night. Maybe 10-15 min. worth of road riding. It wasn't easy.


Aw man. Dang. You've already practiced and gotten that first "holy crap, we're out of control" start out of the way.



Hollywood said:


> Is it wrong to start drinking heavily before 7:30am?


It's not wrong, but it's not necessary, and it would require you to wake up earlier.

Better to make use of the tandem's natural advantages. The stoker need not keep hands on handlebars, has no controls to worry about, and thus has freedom of motion and action. Put proper supplies in a trunk bag on a rear rack. During smoother parts of the race, the stoker can mix drinks and serve them up. Saves a lot of time that way and puts the stoker to work instead of just sitting there like a slug.


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## Hollywood (Dec 30, 2003)

thanks all - we took the poll results and sat down with our Marketing dept.

Team Ambiguously Gay Duo is _ON_.

we're racing a "mandem".


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Yeeeeaaaa Haaaaaaa*



Hollywood said:


> thanks all - we took the poll results and sat down with our Marketing dept.
> 
> Team Ambiguously Gay Duo is _ON_.
> 
> we're racing a "mandem".


Right on!

Somebody HAS to get pics of this.


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## Dan'ger (Aug 26, 2004)

Hollywood said:


> thanks all - we took the poll results and sat down with our Marketing dept.
> 
> Team Ambiguously Gay Duo is _ON_.
> 
> we're racing a "mandem".


You "guys" practicing at Demo tomorrow morning?


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## wg (Dec 20, 2003)

Dwight Moody said:


> Some one has to post this:


My wife and I just giggled outselves silly over this. Too funny.

Wish I could be there this weekend to see the, ummm event. Take pics. Post them. Make Impy buy drinks 'n dinner.


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## jeffh (Jun 7, 2006)

The dynamic duo heading out for a little friday practice. :thumbsup: 

I think they flatted on the first down hill single track.


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## P-Funk (Jan 16, 2004)

Sweet, they're going to do it! But where are the Ambiguously Gay Duo outfits?


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## noshortcuts (Nov 29, 2005)

I didn't see that bike racing today, but did see a white tandem racing beginner xcountry (x19miles).


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*Havent heard from um since*



jeffh said:


> The dynamic duo heading out for a little friday practice. :thumbsup:
> 
> I think they flatted on the first down hill single track.


got the number to the pennyfarthing pub...


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

So...update

I had to buy dinner AND drinks for hollywood and aosty tonight. Not only did the mandem (aka team "ambiguosly gay duo") finish the course, but they did it in style and 6th out of 12. And I never caught them.

Way to go guys!!! 

Some photos are in order but I can't dl them until I get home.


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## jehull (Mar 28, 2004)

*"Mandem" racing*

This is, like the funniest thread I've read on MTBR in quite awhile. I'm fighting with some knee issues and off the bike for awhile, so the laugh was doubly appreciated. Too bad we don't have some helmet cam footage, complete with bleeped out sound track on the scarier parts.
Thanks all!
Jim


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## Hollywood (Dec 30, 2003)

*we did it! a quick recap...*

one word: holy crap.

when I posted this poll I had never ridden a tandem before, road or dirt. Aosty and I got in a quick test lap around his block for a shake down run. I fought the stationary handlebars the whole time and grabbed for non-existent brake levers. Great.

fast forward to Friday in Monterey. We pre-rode most of the course to work on our communication; "pedal", "coast" and "what are you DOING???". We sheared a valve stem off the rear tube and had to face our first flat. I was concerned that it was from the rim overheating as someone mentioned. Luckily it wasn't.

Saturday 7:30 am. We got our s**t together just in time to roll onto the starting line as the announcer was counting down the tandem start. We had maybe 20 seconds to get positioned and we were off. I counted 12 tandems total on the racetrack. Team Retrotec took off like they were shot out of a cannon on their custom cruiser-framed, 29er tandem.

After spending way too long on pavement we realized that the course was mis-marked and all tandems and now the beg. singlespeeders behind us were all off course. Guys were stopping, looking around, shouting....total fustercluck. We found the singletrack and took off after bypassing a big part of the dirt course. That sucked. Protests were filed and times were recalculated.

Al did an amazing job as captain, at one point PASSING another tandem on a singletrack climb. There was barely enough room for one bike, let alone two tandems. The summary of my experience was pretty much: "don't look, just pedal". It did me no good to look past Al at some sketchy, rutted downhill and be reminded that I had no control whatsoever. So I'd hang on and just stare at Al's back hoping we didn't bail. We only had one slo-mo crash into brush but we were up and going again right away.

Our main nemesis was a father with his 9 year old son on the back who we could not catch to save our lives. "Dad" was an animal and Al nicknamed him "Cat1". They'd pull away from us on the long climbs, and we couldn't put much time on them on the downhills. I kept reminding Al that we _had_ to catch them, I wasn't going to lose to a 9 year old! That kept the competitive spirit going and we finally dropped them towards the end. Whew!

overall it was a blast and we laughed more than we argued. A helmet cam with audio would have been priceless. If we indeed came in 6th out of 12 then we're pretty stoked. The Univega delivered!

thanks for all your support, hope to see some pics soon (apologies in advance :winker: )

Jeff


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## pisiket (Sep 19, 2006)

Hollywood said:


> Our main nemesis was a father with his 9 year old son on the back who we could not catch to save our lives.


Were you wearing black? I was right behind you when you collided with that kid. He was walking back to collect the ankle tag that he had dropped.

Then we hit that tough uphill on trail 10. Your front engine was saying "pedal! pedal! pedal!" and your rear engine was saying "I'm pedalling b!tch!" 

Ali


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## SlowSSer (Dec 19, 2003)

very nice, boys, and thanks for the write up, HW. now, where are the pics?!?!?!


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## Kiecker (Jun 22, 2005)

Looking forward to the pics. I'm almost surprised Al didn't swap the bars out for some Jones Lovin'. Great job guys. Wish I could had been there just to follow you.


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## Meat Foot (Jan 14, 2004)

Hollywood and Aosty-

That is rad! I just caught wind of this from SlowSSer. Excellent work boys. :thumbsup: 

Mike

P.S. --> This post is worthless without action shots...:smilewinkgrin:


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

123


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

More soon. 

Practice makes perfect.









Photo-op for the box cover.









Up-close, mid-race.









Francois and Aosty help themselves to the goods! :nono:


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## anirban (Apr 20, 2006)

Hahah, great work guys! I am proud of you... did the mandem have a pink paint job? Not that there's anything wrong with that... I guess I will just wait for the pictures!


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## crossmax (Oct 10, 2005)

*White Hot Man Love*

"Your Honor, I don't know these people and I have never met them. I don't know what their agenda is but it looks to me like some kind of fashion statement. What that statement might be, I couldn't even begin to comment on".


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## K-max (Feb 20, 2004)

Team Evil mandem in action! You guys were rocking it so fast I almost missed you as you passed me! :thumbsup: Here you are about to put the hurtin' on the 3 b!tches.


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## SlowSSer (Dec 19, 2003)

"spandex, it's a privilege, not a right"

ca anyone name the flick?


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## gpsser (Jan 5, 2004)

That is sooo wrong, it right! Shoulda thrown some fishnets in the mix with those get ups  :thumbsup: Sometimes I wonder why I moved away......


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

fishnets are really good for holding your tegaderm on.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

*In case you missed this pic...*

...from another thread, here 'tis again.

After the race, waiting on the food. Nice job, fellas. :thumbsup:

fp


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## Hollywood (Dec 30, 2003)

Finch Platte said:


> ...from another thread, here 'tis again.
> 
> After the race, waiting on the food. Nice job, fellas. :thumbsup:
> 
> fp


thanks G.

actually this was shot on Friday. Team MTBR pre-ride day, sans pantyhose.

for the NC-17 recap, check here:
http://hollywoodonbike.blogspot.com 
:rockon:


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## SlowSSer (Dec 19, 2003)

Hollywood said:


> thanks G.
> 
> actually this was shot on Friday. Team MTBR pre-ride day, sans pantyhose.
> 
> ...


HW- i've always admired the blog- it's a nice diversion to allow me to procrastinate from work. thanks for the words.


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

Hollywood said:


> thanks G.
> 
> actually this was shot on Friday. Team MTBR pre-ride day, sans pantyhose.
> 
> ...


Great read Hollywood. Classic.


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## 1x1_Speed_Craig (Jan 14, 2004)

aosty said:


> Photo-op for the box cover.


Thanks in advance for the nightmares I'll be having tonight.  How's it going, Hollywood & aosty? It has been a L-O-N-G time. Wife, kids & life have swept time away from me in recent years. I'm glad you took the plunge and decided to race the tandem. Most of my racing the last 4-5 years has looked like this.  Yes, I'm proud of my girls. :thumbsup:

(the long-lost) 1x1_Speed_Craig


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## Hollywood (Dec 30, 2003)

Craig! Long time is right! Great pic - glad to see y'all are out there givin' it :thumbsup:

*rumor* has it that Team Mandem may be coming back to Sea Otter this year. Word is we're they're going for podium!

stay tuned....

always good to hear from you and the ol' SS crew.

J.

// happy to provide you with dream material 



1x1_Speed_Craig said:


> Thanks in advance for the nightmares I'll be having tonight.  How's it going, Hollywood & aosty? It has been a L-O-N-G time. Wife, kids & life have swept time away from me in recent years. I'm glad you took the plunge and decided to race the tandem. Most of my racing the last 4-5 years has looked like this.  Yes, I'm proud of my girls. :thumbsup:
> 
> (the long-lost) 1x1_Speed_Craig


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Hey Craig!
Great to hear from you again. We don't hear from you on DF these days. Great pics of the kids too; please post more.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

I guess this posting is pretty old, but I tell you what i think none the less.

Tandems are some how much harmless than single bikes, Don't ask me why, but they very seldom crash (in my experience at least) and unless you hit a wall or go down into a abyss, something that is also kind of impossible since the brakes work so much better on them do to the "Un-flippable" characteristics and added traction..

At the most you will be really slow, break a chain from lack of seamless power delivery but that is about it, wait did I mention that you will be really slow and bounce like a ping pong ball all over the track if is you first time riding one..!?!?

Personally i race my old Ibis (another one, not this purple one) many years ago (At the Beginners class, when I was racing the pro-class on my own) on step and narrow lap courses, but we did much much better on point to point races with wider roads (well mix) specially if they were not super step to climb.

Go and try, tandems are a ton of fun and for sure nobody expect you to get there first, so is not even pressure to win just to have fun.


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## 1x1_Speed_Craig (Jan 14, 2004)

BigNut said:


> Hey Craig!
> Great to hear from you again. We don't hear from you on DF these days. Great pics of the kids too; please post more.


Hi Alex,

It's great to hear from you.  Yes, it has been a L-O-N-G time since I have been on DF. There were _definitely_ a lot of good people over there. I guess I drifted away, as I eventually got somewhat tired of folks _insisting_ to newbie offroaders that you had to spend mega-$$$ on dual-suspension tandems, disc brakes, etc. to have fun. Our tandems have all been rigid (with the exception of our MT-2000, which I ended up swapping a rigid fork onto), and we have had an absolute blast offroad, both with my wife and with my kids. I got into the "spend big $$$ on bicycles for more perceived happiness" phase several years ago (I owned two custom-built Seven ti MTBs), and found that I wasn't at all impressed with what they offered for the money. I ditched them in favor of a couple sweet single speed/fixed gear bikes, which I love. Now, I just ride when I find the time, and stay out of the "techno-hype" as much as I can.

My girls are now 7 1/2 & almost 5 yrs., respectively. The pic I posted (and the ones below) are from the Nov. 2006 Slush Cup ("junior" Iceman) in Traverse City, Michgian. My oldest (Mira) is a 5-yr. veteran of the race, and both girls raced a 2-mile race by herself this year in lieu of stoking for me. I ended up racing the 8-mile race on my single speed (the only SS in my class), and I took 3rd in my class...not too shabby considering I'm out of shape, and was riding against a bunch of gearies. Anyway, the girls were a big hit in the 2006 race, and I don't think I have heard a finish line cheer as loud as they did when we crossed. Of course, it was a BIG workout for me, as the setup with both girls was around 160 lbs., and I'm used to riding a 20-lb. single bicycle.  Here are some more pics of the finish line from David Ditzler Photography...we ended up buying 5 or 6 of them to frame.

Take care, and tell everyone over on DF that the Emenakers say "hi". 

Craig


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

1x1_Speed_Craig said:


> Hi Alex,
> 
> It's great to hear from you.  Yes, it has been a L-O-N-G time since I have been on DF. There were _definitely_ a lot of good people over there. >>>


 What is *DF....!?!?*


> I guess I drifted away, as I eventually got somewhat tired of folks _insisting_ to newbie offroaders that you had to spend mega-$$$ on dual-suspension tandems, disc brakes, etc. to have fun. Our tandems have all been rigid (with the exception of our MT-2000, which I ended up swapping a rigid fork onto), and we have had an absolute blast offroad, >>>>


Glad to hear I'm not the only one tyred of all this "Technology & Equipment codependent Happiness"

Personally I got my IBIS frame for less than a $1000 and install a bunch of
"Obselete" (square taper, etc) and used parts and build it up for somehow cheap..

The think works great, better so far than any of this $10,000 full suspension hamacks, plus the "Smilometer" is always top out and i don't care if we crash it or not because we can walk away from it if we have too.

Your little lady's are so Awesome, makes my heart all warm, to bad my Girlfriend Doggies don't like to ride Bikes, so far that is my biggest family.


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## 1x1_Speed_Craig (Jan 14, 2004)

patineto said:


> What is *DF....!?!?*


Double Forte (click here). It's an offroad tandem Yahoo Group that has been around for years.



patineto said:


> What is *DF....!?!?*Glad to hear I'm not the only one tyred of all this "Technology & Equipment codependent Happiness"
> 
> Your little lady's are so Awesome, makes my heart all warm, to bad my Girlfriend Doggies don't like to ride Bikes, so far that is my biggest family.


Amen, brother.  Thanks for the compliment, too. I have a great time riding with my daughters, but my wife will be glad to get her spot back on the tandem soon (her riding has been pretty much nonexistent for the last few years).

Craig


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Craig,

If I could get yer ass on a Fandango, I could plaster those pictures of those little cuties all over the place; that, sir, is the very definition of what makes tandems so cool! 
How about I send you some Fandango decals  ? 

Seriously, I read your blog about the bikes. I agree to some extent; the cost of a well-spec'd bike can get astronomical, and not always provide the intended results. The unfortunate fact is that because we're such a niche, the price of admission into off-road tandeming is still (relatively) high compared to single bikes. That's what Fandango is all about. 

That being said, the folks that do spend more $$$ on the full suspension rigs almost, without exception, ride the crap out of the bikes and get their money's worth. I'm referring t our customers with that statement, not tandem riders as a whole. I'm sure there are quite a few trophy garage queen tandems out there, just like there are singles.

Unfortunately, I don't get the folks who drop 12k on a full-custom tandem calling me. Since I'm an enthusiast more than a business person (obviously), I'd probably sell it to them for 9k anyway!

Nice pictures. You're just emerging from what I call the "kid gap", where tandem folks start or expand families, with the unfortunate side effect of less time on the bikes. Embrace it for what it is, a great reason for a temporary reduction in bike time. You're doing the coolest thing with your girls. They'll love bikes as much or more than you do, and it will be a part of their lives for many years to come. Plus, in a few years, any guy that isn't up to the efforts of riding will be somehow lacking in their eyes, which can be a pretty good indicator of teenage character. 
Being to the point where the kiddies are on their own bikes now (and sometimes even kicking Dad's ass), I can happily say that tandeming is even more fun the "second" time around. Don't forget to drag Kara out now and then. 

Great to hear from you. Please stop by often!


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

patineto said:


> Personally I got my IBIS frame for less than a $1000 and install a bunch of
> "Obselete" (square taper, etc) and used parts and build it up for somehow cheap..
> 
> The think works great, better so far than any of this $10,000 full suspension hamacks, plus the "Smilometer" is always top out and i don't care if we crash it or not because we can walk away from it if we have too.


Whoa now Patineto! With all due respect to your obvious extensive riding experience, I have to disagree with you on this one. If you took your IBIS tandem and one of ours on the same trail, you'd ride better on one of ours. They're better tandems, technologically, and they work better. Notice I didn't say cooler, as yours has a very high cool quotient. But to say that 15 year old geometry will perform as well as a new one is not quite accurate. Sorry dude; gotta disagree with you on this one!


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## 1x1_Speed_Craig (Jan 14, 2004)

I could probably see us on one of those Vicious tandems moreso than the Fandango (unless it was a full-sus). After riding steel frames (both tandem & single), I highly doubt I'll go aluminum again. I'll let you know if/when I get to the point of looking at another MTB tandem. Kara would still love to get a Rans Screamer, but as with anything, it's all a matter of juggling finances.

I'm currently building a Jeep Scrambler that will run on home-processed biodiesel (~$0.70/gal), so that'll help free up some of the budget.  

Craig


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

But you said...
I thought...
Wait...
NOW you're lookin for full-sus? 
Yeah, been drooling over the Vicious myself, and have been perilously close to getting one in here a couple of times, but I'm still not happy with the price point on the frame. 
I recognize Carl's experience, reputation and artistry, but said E&R doesn't necessarily surpass Ventana's, and the Ventana frame is $1000 less. 
I'm very bummed on what is the typical tandem frame cost viscious circle (pun intended): cost to produce frames in very low numbers (2-3 per year) drops if frame sales trible, quadruple, etc. But in order to get the frame sales to quadruple, one has to get the frame price down. conundrum, eh?
Full-suspension Fandango? Got a couple of sample frames in the shop. However, I don't see the point in appearing to compete with my co-best-selling frame, the Ventana el Conquistador. They are two very different frames, yes, but one might take sales from the other, and I want Ventana to keep making tandem frames. I've been working on Sherwood to get a hardtail and a 29'er in the mix as well.


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## sparrow (Dec 30, 2003)

Ventana does steel S&S travel bikes, so getting a steel frame tandem or half bike from Ventana oughta be simple enough, if steel is what floats thy boat. Seems that Ventana's ability to do custom/semi custom should allow for a hardtail 29er tandem, just over-pay for it! And try to shoot for a slow time of year (if they have one). Maybe bag a magazine review of it once it is all together? Still, I want to see that 24" rear wheeled, ultra short wheelbase tandem, but that ain't gonna happen soon from any makers I can think of (likely with good reason)


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

BigNut said:


> Whoa now Patineto! With all due respect to your obvious extensive riding experience, I have to disagree with you on this one. If you took your IBIS tandem and one of ours on the same trail, you'd ride better on one of ours. They're better tandems, technologically, and they work better. Notice I didn't say cooler, as yours has a very high cool quotient. But to say that 15 year old geometry will perform as well as a new one is not quite accurate. Sorry dude; gotta disagree with you on this one!


Sure a Rigid Tandem of today is going to ride nicer and more efficiently than one made 15 years ago, or at least I sure hope soo.

Full suspension,...

Well that is another story, so far all the Tandems I try, including pretty current ventanas, use Adapted suspension designs that were popular 5 years ago (Four bars, horst links, etc) on single bikes but today are somehow obsolete do to much lateral flexion, bushing that wear prematurely, funky tracking patterns (I like Nidlle bearings my self, no cheesy nylon or brass bushings on this monsters), brake jack, axle breakage/flexion and skinny QR axle as oppose to massive 15MM true axles like current downhill bikes and somehow narrow flexible rear wheels with hub flanges as wide (narrow) as a singles bike, etc, well you get the idea

Yes I do know the travel path and shock leverage rathios need to be different since the loads are much amplified and also different

I'm just asking for a machine that truly works better than their rigid counterpart (specially for a few years, not just a season or two) but so far I have not find it.

Please, Please prove me wrong, even if Money is no Object I really want to see a tandem that is not a relic before the day it leaves the ensemble line..

Also remember (at least I think it works this way) most people that purchase tandems, get them as a "Life time Investment" (the last tandem I will ever have type purchase) when on normal "single" suspension bikes, people are use to upgrade every few years so is not such a big deal if the bike will become obsolete after a few seasons or just fall apart like a cheap watch...

Also please show me a full suspension tandem that can be re-build to work as new after a few years of use, Sadlly working at shops like city cycle in san francisco and wheel smith in palo alto i got to see many frames that were "Spend" since all the pivots and connectors were ovalize, oversize or/and out of specs, if not crack or broken.


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## Octane (Mar 16, 2004)

Craig

Where do you buy the helmet covers for your girls in the pictures? I might need a couple of those...

-Brad


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

patineto said:


> Sure a Rigid Tandem of today is going to ride nicer and more efficiently than one made 15 years ago, or at least I sure hope soo.
> 
> Full suspension,...
> 
> ...


Most light alloy frames, suspension or not, tend to get "spent" after several years. It's the price most consumers seem willing to pay for light weight. 
However, I think you've underestimated the lifespan of most suspension frames like the Ventana; if the pivot bearings are properly maintained and replaced, there's no reason the frames shouldn't last a long time. In earlier bushing designs like the GT LTS, yes, there were finite lifespans from the design limitations. But I think most suspension designs have evolved past that point.
Plus, the suspension designs now are more tweaks of one of 3 or 4 current design types, not revolutionary advances in new designs. I don't think that's because the current designs have been popular for a period of time; I think they've been popular for a period of time because they work. 
The limiting factors of human power, necessity of light weight, and readily available materials are setting the parameters for suspension design. You can build an unobtanium-framed super-lightweight full-suspension rig with replaceable pivot bearings and rear suspension components, and that frame could conceiveably last indefinitely. However, would the consumer pay for it?
I would also say that you should spend more time on a suspension tandem before making a blanket condemnation of the entire breed; if you ride the same loop you're riding on your rigid tandem, you've already adapted to the limitations of that tandem. If you took an FS tandem to different places and explored the added performance envelope available, I suspect you'd find more to like than you're currently acknowledging.
I will certainly concur that current designs don't address every issue with the bikes; our very discussion on frame design alternatives on this board certainly reflect that. 
But I see too many folks who go from a rigid or hardtail frame to a full-suspension frame, and enjoy an expansion of their riding enjoyment and abilities as a result. That's real-world feedback from customers who have made the change and found their own experiences enhanced by the improvement in design and technology.


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

Octane said:


> Craig
> 
> Where do you buy the helmet covers for your girls in the pictures? I might need a couple of those...
> 
> -Brad


Oh really??? Why would you need those? :eekster: I would think you'd be too busy planning a big event in June to be trying for one of those! 

BUSTED!


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## 1x1_Speed_Craig (Jan 14, 2004)

Octane said:


> Craig
> 
> Where do you buy the helmet covers for your girls in the pictures? I might need a couple of those...
> 
> -Brad


I don't know where they carry them, actually. I got them from Meijer (Midwest super center...my former employer). We used to carry them, but don't anymore.

The kids liked them, and the adults got chuckles out of them, as well.

Craig


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