# 9mm vs 20mm



## fishercat (Mar 1, 2004)

Who is running 20mm axel for front wheel ? I am trying to decide whether to keep my 9mm or go to 20mm. I ride tech xc/trail, no freeride really and weigh 120lbs. should i stay with 9mm or spend the xtra for 20mm ?


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## jewels (Mar 17, 2004)

*..*

oops double post


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## jewels (Mar 17, 2004)

*i do*

I used to run a fox talas and vanilla and was fine with it. Until my bf got a new fork and put his old one on mine and that was that. (dunno if it's the bigger stanchions or the maxles or ?) I tried to save weight and put the old one back on, I didn't care for it and decided the weight penalty was worth it on the descents. But mind you, I'm slow up anyhow.

Although, you may look into the new 15mm axles, sounds like they are the best of both worlds. Here's a pix of when I first had the pike in 05. That bike is gone and the same fork is on current bike, 5 spot.

Not sure if the expense is worth it. What characteristic don't you like about your fork now and what bike do you plan on putting this on?


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## fishercat (Mar 1, 2004)

I have a tracer VO with a nice mavic wheelset. unfortunately i will have to get a new front wheel if i go 15 or 20mm. plus the 9mm version of the fork i want is $100 cheaper and a better color. I will probably just stick with 9mm but i am concerned that the trend is toward 20mm and i will want to replace it in another year. basically just not wanting to spend the xtra money really.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

FC: I'll chime in here, as I know some of the trial stuff you ride around on, and think I've ridden with you a time or two, years ago on some Boston RAGE rides. 

Do it. The difference in stiffness in regards to how it keeps the front of the bike nicely planted on your line choice is very, very worth that little bit of weight and price penalty. 
I'm not exactly a big guy, and it was very noticable to me, immediately, first ride on a 20mm setup. 

Every time I've been on something with a 9mm front end since, it doesn't feel as good.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Fishercat, check and see if your current front hub will do a 9mm thru axle type QR like the DT RWS. I use Hope Pro2s which will aceept any axle with a new set of end caps and did this for my Reba and noticed an improvement over normal QR. But yeah as said going to a 20mm from a standard 5mm QR is huge, if you do it get a versatile hub like the Pro2 or some such. IMHO a nice set of hand built custom wheels is way better than some machine made wheels, not matter what they cost - _and in most cases hand builts come in lower thanthos fancy name brand machine wheels_.


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

I really notice the difference when I switch between my through-axle and QR bikes. Amazing how much more precise the steering is, and how much better the bike corners/descends. Going to get one for my new Jet 9, I am stoked to be able make the move to through-axle on my XC bike.


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## fishercat (Mar 1, 2004)

sounds like 20mm is the way to go


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## AnnaBanana (Mar 16, 2008)

I agree, the 20mm through axle is the way to go. If you can afford it over the standard QR then you should do it! It feels so much better! Never tried a 15mm though. 

Does fox still do the 15mm or have they made they're way back to a 20mm?


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

I haven't tried riding a 20 mm, so I'll have to try it before I judge. Thinking logically however, I don't see how it can really be that much of a difference. How much movement is even possible from a 9mm axle secured with a quick release? A tiny fraction of a mm?


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## rvmdmechanic (Sep 18, 2008)

AnnaBanana said:


> I agree, the 20mm through axle is the way to go. If you can afford it over the standard QR then you should do it! It feels so much better! Never tried a 15mm though.
> 
> Does fox still do the 15mm or have they made they're way back to a 20mm?


Still doing 15QR... I think 15QR is an arbitrary and inferior product to the maxle, and refuse to support fox in trying to introduce _ANOTHER_ standard for no good reason.

Go for the TA - negligible weight for good stiffness!


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Before you make a statement like that go try it, then you'll understand. It stiffens up the entire fork, makes steering more precise, which then holds the line you point it at better. Seriously try to get a test ride on a 20mm TA fork and you'll want one ASAP.



smilinsteve said:


> I haven't tried riding a 20 mm, so I'll have to try it before I judge. Thinking logically however, I don't see how it can really be that much of a difference. How much movement is even possible from a 9mm axle secured with a quick release? A tiny fraction of a mm?


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

rvmdmechanic said:


> Still doing 15QR... I think 15QR is an arbitrary and inferior product to the maxle, and refuse to support fox in trying to introduce _ANOTHER_ standard for no good reason.
> 
> Go for the TA - negligible weight for good stiffness!


Except it wasn't just fox, shimano was the real backer behind it, and then EVERYONE paid attention. And at the time it was being developed, there was no Maxle lite 20mm QR alternatives being offered to other fork brands wanting to upsize their XC/All-Mtn fork models without a major weight penalty. The lightest alternative then availble, the Paul Turner invented Tullio system which first appeared on the Rockshox Psylo were now exclusive to Maverick forks (paul apparently took his patents with him when he sold his shares in rockshox). I have a Psylo Race with the tullio dropouts, its a VERY simple way to do it, and indeed the weight difference between the 9mm open dropout versions and the tullio versions was a whole tenth of a pound.


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## speckledtrout (Jul 29, 2007)

I rode a friend's bike and couldn't believe the difference the 20mm made. I just got a new 5 Spot frame and I transferred everything over from my 575 including the 07 15QR Talas that was on it. I can't swing it financially right now, but as soon as I have the cash I will be replacing the Talas with a new Revelation. I have Hope2 hubs so luckily my wheel set is not going to be an issue. The _very_ slight weight penalty of a thru axel is more than worth it in my opinion.


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## ppp2520 (Jan 28, 2008)

20mm is overkill 15QR should work just fine for XC or Trail


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

I'm kinda glad my most recent bike purchase came with a standard QR (and appeared to get a fork upgrade in the process- I think they just wanted to move it out). This whole 15mm vs 20mm standards thing reminds me of VCR vs Betamax. By the time I get set to upgrade the fork hopefully the dust will have settled.


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

verslowrdr said:


> reminds me of VHS vs Betamax


It isn't really quite the same thing. One was a debate between 2 distinct standards, the other an evolution. The creation of the 15mm standard is a direct result of riders using 20mm through-axles, finding that they were significantly better than their QR bikes, and then creating a lighter, more XC friendly option in response. There is really no comparing QR and though-axle for ride quality. The improvements are pretty obvious upon the first ride at speed or on technical terrain. If anything goes away, it will probably be the middle standard, but my guess is that there is room for both.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

The fact that people compare 15 to 20mm in stiffness terms and then immediately declare 20 as the better choice for forks is what gets me. Yeah bigger is stiffer (which is why the maverick fork uses a 24mm, the leftys run a 25mm, etc) but its not necessarily better when it comes to an all-mtn/xc type fork. Even as light as the Maxle Lite is, the fork is going to gain in mass because you have to have a wider crown to get the legs offset further apart for the 110mm dropout spacing standard that goes with those 20mm axle hubs. And that's where a lot of the extra stiffness comes from also. The fork has more material, larger dimensions and is just overall stiffer. 

Since NO fork maker actually offers all three axle standards in the same fork platform, there's no way to really compare them directly. Fox uses 9mm open dropouts, 15QR dropouts, or 20mm bolt-dropouts across their model range. But there's more at work in the weight and stiffness difference between a Fox 32 and a Fox 36 fork than just what dropouts the forks use.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I tend to not agree here, total weight setup of Maxle Lite compared to QR on some wheel/fork combos is lighter than std QR for same fork/wheel combo - Reba's using Hope Pro2 hubs come to mind.



DeeEight said:


> .................. Even as light as the Maxle Lite is, the fork is going to gain in mass because you have to have a wider crown to get the legs offset further apart for the 110mm dropout spacing standard that goes with those 20mm axle hubs. And that's where a lot of the extra stiffness comes from also. The fork has more material, larger dimensions and is just overall stiffer...........


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Only because Hope Pro2s are very light hubs to start with, and how they do the end-cap swaps to change axle formats. You can skew any kind of comparison to favour one axle format over the other if you change enough parameters. But doing your wheel with a Pro2 is going to drive the cost up. If Hope didn't offer just one hub with 20mm inside diameter bearings, they likely wouldn't end up lighter than the 9mm version (the end caps is what changes the Hope hub for those of you who don't know the design and the 9 and 15 endcaps weigh more than the 20 ones). 

A more realistic comparison would be using Shimano hubs as they offer 9mm end conventional axle hubs, 15mm QR hubs, and 20mm hubs for the Deore XT group level.

The M775 is the conventional 9mm QR version (though it uses a 10mm axle with 9mm ends), and weighs 230g with the QR skewer. 
The M776 is the 20mm thru-axle version and weighs 236g without the axle.
The M778 is the 15mm thru-axle version and weighs 180g without the axle.


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