# Raleigh "The Edge"



## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

anyone know much about these? I've got a chance to pick up a real clean one for $150.00. All original except tires, seat and handlebars. Looks just like the one at First Flight( borrowed the picture). 24" rear and 26" front tire setup.....buy or pass? thanx guys


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## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

*picture of the one for sale*

forgot to add this...


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

*Trialsy- woodsy bike*

If you want to give the trialsy- woodsy thing a try, then get it. The price seems right for entry, and it's a mildly interesting model, designed and influenced by John Oleson (sp?) a former magazine writer for Mountain Bike or one o those rags. I wouldn't consider it unless I was going to actually ride it. It might be a fun bike to plunk around on rock piles, logs, and steeps.

And ya gotta like pink!


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Get It! I love mine...and it WAY more than mildly interesting...It's a classic!!!

-richard

www.vintage-fat.blogspot.com (scroll down to the bottom)


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I'm with Richard. It is an outstanding bike and $150 is a good price for a clean one.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Aye - another vote for a classic bike. John Olsen aka Uncle Knobby?


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

ssmike said:


> John Olsen aka Uncle Knobby?


Umm.....wait a minute......I get confused. I think that's him. Capn' Dondo was the other one. Don Cuerdon? Pink Ibis dude, right?

Anyway, buy the Raleigh!


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## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

*you made me do it!*

The ayes have it. I bought it! heres what we got, the paint is actually shiny, the camera didn't pick it up. It's got some minor chips but hey, it's a mountain bike. Turns out the ex-owners husband was a Klein factory rider back in the ninetys. real interesting couple...thanx guys.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

The frame is slightly different on mine - the cross-piece on the seat-stays is straight, not curved.

That is a great pickup. Congrats.


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## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

*what year?*



richieb said:


> Get It! I love mine...and it WAY more than mildly interesting...It's a classic!!!
> 
> -richard
> 
> www.vintage-fat.blogspot.com (scroll down to the bottom)


 I noticed yours has the brake on the seatstays, mine is a roller brake under the chainstays. also your cross brace on seatstays is straight, mine is curved. Any idea as to what year yours is? or mine? also mine doesn't have a canti-roller on the stem,cable just goes thru the top of the stem and straight down. I'm guessing mine is older, serial # "M7EM00039"


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Mine has a rollercam under the chainstays and the straight cross brace. Serial number is M7IM11082


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

The first Edge was released in 1987...chainstay rollercam brake, etc...

It the didn't appear in the 88 catalogue, then in 89 it appeared in all the buyers guides againwith the brake spec being the big difference. The later production (which i suspect was a 2nd 87 production that never sold that well in the first place) had a Dia Compe u brake mounted on the seatstay...the seatstay mounted brakes feel REALLY squishy due to the complete cable housing from lever to seatstay, the flexy 990 brake and the thin-ish seatstays.

I have since switched to Deore U-brake and front canti in order to make the bike ridable.

Oh, and I put on a bash ring...it IS a trials bike after all....

rb


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Guitar Ted said:


> Umm.....wait a minute......I get confused. I think that's him. Capn' Dondo was the other one. Don Cuerdon? Pink Ibis dude, right?
> 
> Anyway, buy the Raleigh!


I think Uncle Knobby has been different people over the years. It could have also been Don Cuerdon at one point - and yes Capt. Dondo is the pink Ibis dude. Rumor is that he is going to be at First Flight Bikes Crossroad's Bike Festival with that big ole pink Ibis. Uncle Knobby could have also been John Kukoda at one time - where is bulC anyway? Those were spirited times.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

When I bought my edge (bike for the wife) back in early 88, the bike shop had two bikes left, one with the suntour roller cams under the chainstays, and the other had canti's on the rear seat stays. This was a shock to me as I had been looking at the bikes and had never seen one with rear cantilevers. I left the shop and then called them back saying that I wanted the one with the canti set-up, but unfortunately some other lucky buyer managed to pick it up first. I have never seen another with rear canti's since, but I am glad I still have my(oh I mean my wifes!) edge which still hangs in like new condition in my garage.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

If there is anyone out there with a raleigh edge with a seat stay mounted rear brake and it's in good shape let me know, I'd be interested in purchasing it, I have one and would very much like a spare. [email protected].


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## vintagemtbr (Jun 6, 2004)

Good find Stan.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Looks like this thread has been idle for a while so here is my Edge. It's still under renovation .


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

*raleigh "the edge"*

Very nice, What still needs to be done? how are the bearings? (bottom bracket,headset&wheel bearings) What's the condition of it overall, any concerns? If you where interested in selling it what kind of price where you thinking?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Very nice, What still needs to be done? how are the bearings? (bottom bracket,headset&wheel bearings) What's the condition of it overall, any concerns? If you where interested in selling it what kind of price where you thinking?


Well, I had to replace the bottom bracket. The other bearings feel good. The rear wheel is not true. It has been enjoyed quite a bit. I have another one to throw on soon. The front wheel is very true but the cantilever front brakes were out of adjustment and wore the sidewall of the original IRC Trials Winner tire a tad (does anyone know where I could pick up some of these tires). Also, the front brake cable roller pulley is missing. So I temporarily put on the front Maguras and front wheel/tire from my C'dale which is what is in the picture. I may invest in a new set of Maguras for this little devil. The rear derailleur needs new pulleys. The chain needs replacing. When I got it, the freewheel had been replaced (now a 13-32 instead of original 13-26 according to Raleigh spec sheet) as were the shifters with Shimano Deore XT indexed units (I believe Raleigh did not put indexed shifters on until the '90's according to http://www.mombat.org/Raleigh.htm: "There is no bike with the new Deore XT index group which is extremely popular in 1987." ). I have the front derailleur and shifter as well as the 175mm cranks and chain rings (26/36/46). I put on 167.5 modified Specialized cranks with a 24 tooth chain ring. It has the original chainstay mounted Roller Cam brake and I am searching for different cams for it (if anyone knows where I can get just the cams give me a holler).

For the type of technical trails you find in East coast woods biking, these are nice bikes; almost spot on, which is why I got it. I'm not a Trails rider but a technical trail rider (ala John Olsen's article "Technical Trail Riding" in Mountain and City Biking, November 1991). I'm too old to try and play bunny-hopper. I subscribe to the roll over method.

The Edges ride/handling/geometry is close to what my Beast is except for the 24" rear wheel and 9 years older. The shortcoming of the Edge (as with the "Beast of the East" also) is the relatively long chainstays as compared to say an Ibis Mtn. Trials which I would just love to have. Do you think anyone would care if I used my torch to shorten them up a little?:madman: After all, it a Taiwanese made mass produced frame. (I have done this to other Taiwanese made frames and loved it except for the high stand over height.:eekster: ) Why didn't John Olsen go for shorter chainstays to start with? I'm also toying with a 24" front wheel?!?! Where is John Olsen anyway? I really miss his articles:sad: :bluefrown: .

I have no plans to sell and if I did I wouldn't know what to ask.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

*raleigh "the edge"*

There is a suntour roller cam brake on ebay right now, the top of the line one with two different cam plates included you might want to check it out,, I looks to be in real good shape to rich for my blood but sure would like it. I have two edge's and love them both, bless you for designing them john olson, i'm going to try and get pictures of them and post them on this site so as to share them with fellow raleigh edge lover's, I don't blame you for not wanting to sell it, looks like it's real fun.


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

that gusset alone makes it worth having. totally awesome bikes.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> i'm going to try and get pictures of them and post them on this site so as to share them with fellow raleigh edge lover's


 Can't wait to see them!!:thumbsup: 
Even if they are all the same color!!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

veloreality said:


> that gusset alone makes it worth having. totally awesome bikes.


Stylewise, yes it is. It certainly sets these bikes apart.

I wonder how functional they really are?

Years ago John Olsen wrote an article in which he stated an opinion about gussets. But quite frankly, I can't remember what it was nor did I keep a copy of such. I think the article was about designing/building frames and it was in Mountain Biking.

I wonder if he engineered it in or if it was added by Raleigh (Huffy) marketing.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

abaris said:


> Well, I had to replace the bottom bracket. The other bearings feel good. The rear wheel is not true. It has been enjoyed quite a bit. I have another one to throw on soon. The front wheel is very true but the cantilever front brakes were out of adjustment and wore the sidewall of the original IRC Trials Winner tire a tad (does anyone know where I could pick up some of these tires). Also, the front brake cable roller pulley is missing. So I temporarily put on the front Maguras and front wheel/tire from my C'dale which is what is in the picture. I may invest in a new set of Maguras for this little devil. The rear derailleur needs new pulleys. The chain needs replacing. When I got it, the freewheel had been replaced (now a 13-32 instead of original 13-26 according to Raleigh spec sheet) as were the shifters with Shimano Deore XT indexed units (I believe Raleigh did not put indexed shifters on until the '90's according to http://www.mombat.org/Raleigh.htm: "There is no bike with the new Deore XT index group which is extremely popular in 1987." ). I have the front derailleur and shifter as well as the 175mm cranks and chain rings (26/36/46). I put on 167.5 modified Specialized cranks with a 24 tooth chain ring. It has the original chainstay mounted Roller Cam brake and I am searching for different cams for it (if anyone knows where I can get just the cams give me a holler).
> 
> For the type of technical trails you find in East coast woods biking, these are nice bikes; almost spot on, which is why I got it. I'm not a Trails rider but a technical trail rider (ala John Olsen's article "Technical Trail Riding" in Mountain and City Biking, November 1991). I'm too old to try and play bunny-hopper. I subscribe to the roll over method.
> 
> ...


Just a point of clarification regarding the shifters on the Edge. I purchased my Edge new back in 88 and its still fairly close to original condition. I can tell you that it did come from the factory with Deore front and rear derailleurs and Deore indexed 6 speed thumbies. It also has Suntour hubs mixed with the shimano 6spd cluster....weird combo. Still a fun little bike to ride on tight technical trails.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

N10S said:


> Just a point of clarification regarding the shifters on the Edge. I purchased my Edge new back in 88 and its still fairly close to original condition. I can tell you that it did come from the factory with Deore front and rear derailleurs and Deore indexed 6 speed thumbies. It also has Suntour hubs mixed with the shimano 6spd cluster....weird combo. Still a fun little bike to ride on tight technical trails.


Hi Jeff,

If you haven't posted any pics of your wifes Edge you should. It would be nice to see if all of them are the same color.... but seriously having a photos posted of an original Edge would help restorers.

Indeed, product managers or whatever they called themselves back then, started mixing Shimano with Suntour components as well as Rear Suntour brakes with Dia-compe front units.

I believe, after looking at the spec sheet at http://www.mombat.org/Raleigh_Specs.htm, Edges supposedly did not come with Deore XT. Certainly, they came with Deore SIS units.

After rereading my earlier post it is obvious that I mixed wording "Deore XT" and "indexed shifting". It is a fine point between Deore and Deore XT but I believe the main difference is the shifter frame material, i.e., press metal vs alloy.

Does yours have Deore XT or "just" Deore?

I humbly apologize if I mislead anyone.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

*raleigh"the edge"*

Pictures of my two babies,the one without the tailight I bought brand new in I think in "88" it came with a di compe 981 front cantilever brake and a suntour roller cam rear, it came with deore thumbshifters and deore derailleurs (long cage rear) SIS system,It has a kona dh bar,shimano deore lx front cantilever brake and a deore xt u brake in back with a gorilla brake beefer brake brace,shimano deore xt short cage derailleur,shimano deore xt pedals,lock on grips,wtb moto raptor 26x2.24 front tire and piranha pro 24x2.10 rear tire,wtb seat and a threshold bashring. The one with the tailight has the same tire setup,shimano deore xt pedals,a shimano deore lx front cantilever brake and the suntour roller cam rear brake that originally came on the other bike ( the one with the tailight came with a dia compe 982 front cantilever and a dia compe 990 rear u brake and a wtb seat.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Beautiful!!! How do you decide which one to ride?
Did the flat bars and those grips come on the one with the light and rear roller brake?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

*raleigh "the edge"*

Yes, Both bikes came with that bar and grips, the grips and bar. by the way are really comfortable,That's the thing about the edge,strip it down to just the granny chainring in the front,take off the front derailleur and the thumbshifter, switch out the front brake with something better and put a shimano u brake or if your lucky and your's came with a roller cam rear brake use that on the back( the advantage with the u brake is you can use a brake brace with it,put a bashring on it or just use the tabs the middle and large chainrings mounted to to get a grip on logs your climbing over and your set.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

abaris said:


> Hi Jeff,
> 
> If you haven't posted any pics of your wifes Edge you should. It would be nice to see if all of them are the same color.... but seriously having a photos posted of an original Edge would help restorers.
> 
> ...


How many shades of salmon pink can there be?  I do need to get some pictures of the bike. Its currently sitting in a bike carrier mounted to the top of my pop-up camper in my garage. My (wifes) Edge has Deore shifters and derailleurs not Deore XT. The Deore shifter clamps are pretty chintzy compared to the allow XT thumbie mounts. No harm at all on the comments either way, I just wanted to make sure to throwin with what I knew. I actually walked out to the garage to check because I wasn't absolutley sure on which derailluers it had.

I actually had the Edge out this past fall for a ride.After riding a 29er for a while jumping on a 24" rear wheeled bike was a drastic change of pace (literally). Fun for the right techincal tight single track ride though, thats for sure.

Jeff


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

N10S said:


> How many shades of salmon pink can there be?  ...
> Jeff


The so-called Raleigh Spec sheet indicates that the paint is Pastel Hot Red.:nono: But it does look PINK!!! 
Post some pics... just to make sure about the color....:thumbsup:


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## shardin (Oct 6, 2010)

*Need Advice on Tires*

I have a Raleigh Edge and want to replace the Specialized Fat Boy Tires I have had on it for years. Apparently, this tire is no longer available in th 24-inch size. Any advice from Edge owner on a good, reasonably priced set of tires that can be had in both the 24 and 26 inch size. I prefer a high pressure road tire since I don't do much off trail riding.

Skip


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Look into Maxxis Holy Rollers.....Not traditional but a nice tread design, good
traction and fairly low rolling resitance.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Hi guys! This is John Olsen. I just discovered this thread (amazed to find it, actually). I was Uncle Knobby from 1994 until about 2002. I worked with Chris Murphy of Raleigh to inspire the edge and suggest geometry. Chris and the other folks at Raleigh were responsible for the gusset and the component choices. The geometry was based on the chainstay tubing and the limitations of the bending at that time. The 24" rear wheel was chosen because it was easier to make the chainstays shorter than with a 26" (duh), DESPITE the limited tire choices.  Same with the first Cannondale MTB, which I consulted on too. Later, I helped a friend convert his Edge to a 26" rear. Anyway, I'd be glad to answer any questions, if I can remember the answers, that is!


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

Welcome aboard John. I came really close to buying one of those last week. Great price I just don't have the room.

This thread might also spark your interest.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=622929&highlight=olsen

and this one
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=455957&highlight=olsen

here's one
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=463669&highlight=olsen

and this one's really cool
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=417226&highlight=olsen

I think Stan likes your stuff.

edit: and great name, couldn't fit you better.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Welcome to VRC John,
Always enjoyed your writing back in ther day...
T


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## Z-Man (Apr 25, 2005)

Heck yeah! I had your guide book back in the day, yet never managed the rad log rolls...
Saw a lady riding an Edge around town the other day, good thing I was seated at a restaurant at the time...


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Hey John, glad you finally found us. I'm the one that e-mailed you about the Raven :thumbsup: I've also got 2 Edges, a 24/26 C'Dale and an R&E Montana...yea, I kinda like your stuf f ..Tell us some stories please


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Welcome John. I loved your writing back in the day. The piece on your first ride on clipless is a classic. 

Jeff


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Gunfighter Eyes - Classic.

Welcome to the group, John! You've got a couple fans in here.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

And if you could post all of your wonderful articles from Mountain Biking, that would be sweet too! Awesome to have you here.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Hi guys! This is John Olsen. ... Anyway, I'd be glad to answer any questions, if I can remember the answers, that is!


Welcome. I am honored to be "in the e- presence" of such a grand penmen as you. You are one of the few blessed ones who have engineering talent and the ability to put into words that the rest of us have enjoyed in the past. Just having your name on the Chainstays of the Edge is such a remarkable tribute to your talents.

In reference to your past articles in certain mountian biking magazines, I have been reluctant to post scanned copies of some of your old articles without your permission. Hopefully you have a complete set and willing to share. One of my favorites is "Technical Trail Riding." which I believe describes those who ride Edges.

So here is are some questions for you:

What is the tube (chainstays, top tube, seat tube and seat stays...and the rest of the tubes if you know) thickness and "butting" thickness and lengths if double-butted or triple-butted tubes were used. This frame seems lighter than the other products of Taiwan. Is the fact that a lug is used to join the top tube and seat tube mean thinner tubing is used 
Is it possible that the chain stays between the BB and the chain-stay cross support are of constant thickness?

Bob


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## Sven Trials (Sep 15, 2005)

I have a bike that John designed, built by Bushnell (?), pimped by Shoji of Side Trak, painted by Klien. The seatless "Strage Bike" was ridden by my wife all around the Puget Sound area in the early 90s and remains built up and hanging in the garage.

We did a couple of rides with John on Martha's Nipple and Cap Sante up north. He is fun to ride with and wished to have done more. If John would publicly give an update to what he has been up to, would be interesting to his fans, but privacy is understood.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Sven Trials said:


> I have a bike that John designed, built by Bushnell (?), pimped by Shoji of Side Trak, painted by Klien. The seatless "Strage Bike" was ridden by my wife all around the Puget Sound area in the early 90s and remains built up and hanging in the garage.
> 
> We did a couple of rides with John on Martha's Nipple and Cap Sante up north. He is fun to ride with and wished to have done more. If John would publicly give an update to what he has been up to, would be interesting to his fans, but privacy is understood.


Pics or it doesn't exist.


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## Sven Trials (Sep 15, 2005)

I will post picts of bike tomorrow.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Sven Trials said:


> I have a bike that John designed, built by Bushnell (?), .


Dennis Bushnell is a pretty well known PacNW frame builder.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Sven Trials said:


> I will post picts of bike tomorrow.


It is now tomorrow.
Make believers out of the non-believers.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Look what's on ebay!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-87-Rale...1884173?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item588c5ad18d


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

abaris said:


> Look what's on ebay!!!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-87-Rale...1884173?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item588c5ad18d


Not sure it is worthwile to buy online from afar and pay shipping costs. With a little bit of patience you should be able to find one on your local CL.

At least they show up around here fairly often. A unique frame that was produced in mass.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

abaris said:


> Look what's on ebay!!!
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-87-Rale...1884173?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item588c5ad18d


well..if thats "beautiful and well kept" my two are NOS


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

Aemmer said:


> Not sure it is worthwile to buy online from afar and pay shipping costs. With a little bit of patience you should be able to find one on your local CL.
> 
> At least they show up around here fairly often. A unique frame that was produced in mass.


That's the same one I nearly went for last week. All of 15 minutes away from me. More tempting at the lower price.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

da'HOOV said:


> well..if thats "beautiful and well kept" my two are NOS


Maybe they mean "beautifully well used and kept".

If it wasn't for the shipping, $50 wouldn't be bad...but at lot of work to restore.


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## Sven Trials (Sep 15, 2005)

*Picts of John Olsen designed bike*

I hope this works, I am a mantard with uploading crap.

Invalid Post specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

Damn computers


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Sven Trials said:


> I hope this works, I am a mantard with uploading crap.
> 
> Invalid Post specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
> 
> Damn computers


Hit "Post Reply" button.

When page with editable input window appears, SCROLL down and there is a box that indicates "Attach Files"
In that box click "Upload images"
Be aware of file size(s), they won't upload if too big.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Here are scanned pages from a John Olsen article called "Technical Trail Riding" in Mountain and City Biking, November 1991 pages 105-110.


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## Sven Trials (Sep 15, 2005)

*Hope this works*

Lets try again


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

And here is a previous article by John Olsen called "The Lament of the Technical Trail Rider" in Mountain and City Biking, February 1990, page 13.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

opps.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Sven Trials said:


> Lets try again


Very nice.


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## Sven Trials (Sep 15, 2005)

*last try for picts*

Hope this is it..


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Nice. That looks like a fun bike. Thanks for posting the pics. Are the chain stays attached at the down tube?


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## Sven Trials (Sep 15, 2005)

The chain stays are welded at the down tube and at the seat tube. Makes for a stiff rear.

Got to like a stiff rear...


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

^This^


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## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

Sven Trials said:


> Hope this is it..


Very cool.
And this was your wife's bike? I'm impressed. My wife would probably prefer a bike without handlebars to one without a seat...

Are (were) her trials skills equal to the bike?


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## Sven Trials (Sep 15, 2005)

yes indeed. The last competition she did with this bike was in '95 at a NORBA national at Mt. Spokane. It was fun to take pictures of her with Hans Rey and Lebor checking out the trials sections before competition. She now rides either a Transition covert or a Specialized SX trail on secret unnamed trails. Somewhere..


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Here is where I was from 2001 to 2006, before I made a Texas-sized mistake:

(note: I tried to post 2 of my favorite photos- don't know if it worked!)


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Columbia River?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Yes, indeed! Max bonus points. That's an offshoot of the "Millenium" trail north and east of the town of Bingen, WA. You can see the Hood River Bridge in the background. That area has some of the best technical riding you will ever see, with lots of lava rock faces, infinite traction, and sheer terror.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

I lived down river in Washougal WA 2003-2009. Going back asap


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

I will Paypal $3.00 to the first person (other than Mr. Olsen) to PM me what the original name of The Edge was _supposed_ to be before Raleigh changed it to The Edge.

A hint - "No Name Too Mamby Pamby"


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Llama


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Actually ...Raleigh Llama..


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Once a Huffy always a Huffy.


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

abaris said:


> Llama


Well done, Sir.

PM me your Paypal address.

Any idea what the "No Name too Mamby Pamby" reference was alluding to?


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

I stand by my answer "Raleigh Llama" read the second post, forth paragraph, direct from Johns article.....but no problems, facts here are irrelevant.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=455957&highlight=olsen


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Brand - Raleigh

Model - Llama


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*I'll explain....*



richieb said:


> Brand - Raleigh
> 
> Model - Llama


...the "joke" with the name is when it was said together..."Raleigh Llama"..the problem was the obvious rhyme with "Dalai Lama" ...they didn't want religious repercussions.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

richieb said:


> Well done, Sir.
> 
> PM me your Paypal address.
> 
> Any idea what the "No Name too Mamby Pamby" reference was alluding to?


Keep your money.

Let John Olsen know how much we all appreciated his writing back then.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Pederson SE brakes on my Edge.. No more rollercam blues!!!
Although, I can now flex my seatstays!!!!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey just to let the rest of you know dmr tires makes a moto digger tire in a 24x2.1 size and a moto rt in a 24x2.2 size of which the rt is more of a street trail tire and the moto digger is more a looser soil tire, been a while since i've been on this site, WELCOME ABOARD JOHN OLSEN and thanks for designing some of the coolest bikes to ever come along, 26/24's ROCK


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Abaris could you please show us more pictures of your edge,


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Thank you, Scott! Glad I bumped into the site!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Abaris could you please show us more pictures of your edge,


I'll try to post some tonight!
Maybe John could post a pic or two of an edge that he might have!!

So here is a question for John Olsen, Who chose the paint color for the Edge?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Chris Murphy, the marketing genius for Raleigh at the time, chose the color, and I think he was responsible for the jagged gussets on the head tube as well. Chris was/is an extremely energetic and enthusiastic cyclist who I took on one of my Northwest trail rides (which included about 50 2' log crossings and a bunch of 30 degree climbs, so a "trials ride") on the Tiger Mountain Trail from the Highway 18 side of Tiger Mountain, near Issaquah WA in 1985 or 6. He got so fired up by it, that he started the Edge project. I based the geometry on bikes that I had been building for myself (you couldn't ride those trails on commercial bikes at that time), and Chris added the bling. He is quite a guy! 

My payment for the Edge (I basically only did the geometry and "starred" in the ads) was 2 Edges. I sold one somewhere along the way, and have kept one in near new shape, but somehow missing the front brake! Anybody got a front brake with the old "wrong side" return spring? 

Fondly,

John Olsen


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> My payment for the Edge (I basically only did the geometry and "starred" in the ads) was 2 Edges. I sold one somewhere along the way, and have kept one in near new shape, but somehow missing the front brake! Anybody got a front brake with the old "wrong side" return spring?
> 
> Fondly,
> 
> John Olsen


hmmm. I just took off the dia-comp 982s (or 985s, whichever) off mine (and put on Pedersons and I have an extra set of Pedersons)....I'm not a resto/vintage traditionalist but I think the Pedersons are nearly period correct....but I guess I'm not sure what John means by 'the old "wrong side" return spring".............hmmmmmm...yeah, I think I could part with the original dia-comps....by the way, how do you tell the year of manufacture of the Edge?

For Scott Murray,
If your riding in the mud and have "mud" tires on and come to a bunch of rocks, which tire should I choose, the moto diger or the rt? How soft a compound, and all the other etc techno stuff?

east coast bob


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

The moto digger is the more aggressive tire made for softer soils, the rt is more of a street and hardpack dirt tire I just came across them doing a general search on yahoo on cannondale's sm 600 just look on the net under dmr moto digger tires, Don't know the specs. on them other then the moto digger comes in a 24x2.1 which should fit your edge's chainstays. I run irc piranha pro's 24x2.1 on the back of my two edge's, there is a trail near where I live used to be an old 4x4 jeep trail real rocky, rocky ledges, loose rocks and my piranha pro's hook up amazingly well on them though it kind of chews them up but softer compound tires wear out faster that is the trade off for super traction but this trail has ALOT of sharp rocks brutal trail great workout though, anyways got about 12 set's from a bike shop in new york I think it was, that was selling a pair on ebay, contacted them asked them how many they had and bought a bunch so I wouldn't have to worry about back tires for a while, also arrow racing had a 24x2.1 wire bead tire that had a nice narly looking tread on them, think I saw them on cambria bikes website.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Me again, ran out of room rambling on, anyhow I'm sorry mr. olsen I have none of my old brake parts or I would gladly send them to you, abaris I hope this was of some help, anything I can do to help out a fellow edge owner.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Mr. Olsen Sir,
Is this what you are looking for?

East Coast BOB


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Abaris could you please show us more pictures of your edge,


Hi Scott,
For what it is worth:


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## Sven Trials (Sep 15, 2005)

Hey John, I saw an Edge at Kurt Long's place and I thought he got it from you. Am I confused? 

Sven


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi abaris, What do you mean for what it's worth your bike looks trick that's got to be a blast to ride, What kind of bar is that I like the shape and bend of it, So tell me about those pedersen brakes those this look beefy how do they work? You say you have an extra set do you mean one single brake or two? Would you be interested in maybe selling them? If not do you know where or if you can still get those? Your bike looks really nice the way you've got it set up. Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Hi abaris, What do you mean for what it's worth your bike looks trick that's got to be a blast to ride, What kind of bar is that I like the shape and bend of it, So tell me about those pedersen brakes those this look beefy how do they work? You say you have an extra set do you mean one single brake or two? Would you be interested in maybe selling them? If not do you know where or if you can still get those? Your bike looks really nice the way you've got it set up. Scott


I have to admit it does look radical does it not? AND It is a blast to ride. I don't ride it as much as I should...work...time...muddy trails not open....etc...

Good eye on the handle bars! They started as NASHBAR downhill bars which are not listed on their site anymore. I got them about 11-12 years ago and have been on my Cannondale Beast until this winter. I also "cold set" them to have more sweep-up (or back depending on your point of view) to match my natural wrist angle when riding. They are extremely comfortable. So much for bars...but it is Friday nite...

The Pederson SE brakes work as the best brake I can put on right now short of discs, v brakes or Manguras. Mr. StrangeBike13 tells me "they don't work well going backwards but on a good day...". I can literally bend the seat stays and the "Big Cheese" adapter with them. And I mean bend and rotate. I can do the same with the Manguras on the C-dale without the brace on them so it sort of suggests I need a rear brake brace. I actually put the Manguras on for a short time, but boy did the seat stays flex then. I was afraid I was going to twist/bend the stays permanently. The "Big Cheese" adapter just isn't stiff enough by itself. (I have consulted with one of the TOP bike experts in the world and I believe he might suggest disc brakes. So I search now for a disc adapter for the rear.) That said, I can lock the rear wheel at will (that's the great thing about well set up Pedersons SE brakes), even though it feels like SpongeBob on a rainy day. Oh they only mount to V-brake/canti mounts; not to U brake or roller-cam mounts.

I have an extra set of Pederson SE's (I think I'm spelling that right), 1 front and 1 rear as they are location specific (unless you want to go backwards or turn your fork around 180 degrees). I will PM you about them. You would have to get an adapter.

The Edge to me is more of an "emotional" thing as this is the bike I "lusted" after (until I read about Ibis Mountain Trials or the early C-dale 26/24's , sorry StrangeBike13; However, I haven't been able to find an Ibis and today they are prrriiiccceeeyyy if you can find one.) The Edge's geometry is almost identical to the C-dale "Beast of the East"...That said, when the tough trails come along, I would rather be on the Beast. The bottom bracket on the Edge seems to flex more than the Beast and so do the wheels as well; but it is 10 years older than the C-dale.

Like the Beast, the Edge climbs well as long as you stay planted on the seat. Moving forward off the seat on STEEP CLIMBS is wheel spin city. Ny experience is that this would be easily remedied by shortening the chainstays...which I just haven't had the "heart" to do yet even though I have consulted with one of the TOP frame experts in the world.

If I could only talk StrangeBike13 into a swap... DiaCompe 982s for shortened stays...seems like a reasonable barter to me.

Wow. I guess that's enough for now.

Thanks for the interest Scott and I will PM you about the SE's.

East Coast Bob


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi abaris, How does the lower arms of your big cheese mount to your seatstays?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Do any of you guy's know how I would go about converting u brakes bosses over so as to be able to run pedersen se brakes on the back of my edge? My back brake is seatstay mounted not under the chainstay's. Thanks for any help, Scott


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

The Scott/Pedersen u-Brake was available in a seatstay mount model - you have to look around, though.

I have one on the back of my Ibis Mt Trials.

https://farm1.static.flickr.com/84/240071683_3f3c6bc872_z.jpg?zz=1


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks, I guess i'll keep an eye out for one on ebay, By the way I've checked out your site vintage fat, saw your pictures of the restoration of your Mt Trials and let me say that is the most beautiful one I've ever seen, alot of time, effort, money, and love went into that restoration and let me tell you it shows, that has to be a blast to ride, I so envy you.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

That is one beautiful bike....I hope you don't ride it in the rough and get it all scratched up...incredible...I wish I had one.

Scott, I know of NO adapter for u brakes to cantis. Mine had the chainstay type roller cam. 

richieb, do they make one for the upside down under chainstay position as it would have to have the opposite rotation helical gear in it.


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Yes, there are chainstay Pedersen U-Brakes as well - just like the one on the FRONT of my Ibis...they're actually a little more common. A well tuned roller cam on a chainstay is a superior brake, though.


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## proto2000 (Jan 27, 2007)

*Mine finally posted here*

All of these have me taking another look at mine. Here is the one I have that looks OK and is completely stock except for maybe the seat. Roller brake version though. Anyone have the saddle like mine on their bike? I don't use it, wall hanger, but seems it's time for me to clean it up, new cables, grease and a little TLC.

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## proto2000 (Jan 27, 2007)

One more thing, are the bars upside-down? Sure look like it to me.


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Bars look bent te me, actually.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Post Removed


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Uh oh...


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

uh oh is right......what up with that?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey proto 2000, Good looking bike, I don't think the bar is bent, I have that same bar on one of my edge's, looks exactly the same just a strange looking bar but it's comfortable. Nice bike


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

I agree with Scott. I have my original bar and it looks bent but it's not.
Is your bike Restored or Original and to what extent is it not?


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## proto2000 (Jan 27, 2007)

Thanks. Great to know that it was made that way, just looks odd. Mine is all original down to the tires. It's missing the front wheel reflector and the left shift cover and possibly the saddle, all easy parts to find. I do have the rear red reflector on the rack that came with the bike so I just have to move it over to the frame.


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Oddly, that textured saddle is OE spec on that bike.

I have a spare shifter cover if you need it...


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey proto 2000, It's a good looking little bike, Just ride it and enjoy it, it you have any issue's just come to this forum these guy's will help you out.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi richieb, How do the deore xt brakes that you put on your edge work, Doe's the front one work nice and smooth, I have deore lx front cantilever brakes , I think there the style that came right before v brakes, on both my edge's and they both have a pulsating grap to them (hard to explain) the harder you use the brake the more pronounced it is, Both bikes have the stock araya rm 25 rims on them, it feels kind of like the rims have a blip in them but they have been trued and spin smooth, Want model # is your front brake? I'm wondering if it's a leverage thing in the design of the newer canilevers compared to the older ones like the 731's, I'm perplexed and it drives me nuts. I've also found that even with the newer cantilever in front and the deore xt u brake in back the brakes are still nothing to write home about, pictures of both my bike's are in this forum, any thought's ? Thanks Scott


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey guy's our forum is now up to 3 pages long WE ROCK!! Scott


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## proto2000 (Jan 27, 2007)

richieb, I kinda thought it was since the rest of the bike looks untouched. I could use it for sure. I have a spare set but I don't want to cannibalize them for a cover. I'll PM you with contact info. Thanks.


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Scott, RM25's are the cause if you pulsing brakes. They have a welded seam that is machined to 1987 accuracy tolerances - they are renowned for brake pulse.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

richieb- Thank you for the feedback, abaris also said it was my rims, I put my wife's cruiser front wheel on my edge just to see after I got abaris's message and that seemed to fix it, Thanks so very much. scott


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey abaris, don't know if you got my last couple of messages to you but you were right about the rim. Thanks so much for the help you guy's ROCK. Scott


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So, John olsen we havn't heard from you lately are you still out there, You know I was thinking I bet a new 26 front 24 rear wheeled technical trail bike like the edge or the old cannondale's would be REAL popular these day's say with a rigid frame, 13 inch bottom bracket, good powerful v brakes, 15 or 151/2 chainstay length, sloping top tube, short wheelbase, man I'm drooling already, I'd buy one, What do you think? Scott


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So John, Some more thought's on the bike, a single front chainring with a short cage rear derailleur and some gears in the back, seat and chainstays designed to accomadate today's 2.5 and 2.7 inch 24 inch downhill tires so there would be a good choice in tires available, Keep it simple and basic to keep the cost down and so the average person could work on it themselves, A nice wide downhill bar, sealed cartridge bearing hubs ( no maintaince, just pop out the old and pop in the new ones when the time comes) ditto with the bottom bracket, double wall sun rhyno lite rims, get the rights from shimano for the old orginal deore xt pedals and start remaking those, put a pair of those on it, (you are right about those best pedals ever made) I'd buy two.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

A Post for you Scott (But it really does not belong here)!
(However, another Olsen derivative...although 1 generation removed...perhaps a grand-bike????!!!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Bob, oh man that is SWEET !! magura hydraulic brakes? You use the middle chainring for a bashring I don't see a front derailluer?Dual 26 inch wheels? Like that bar looks like it works real good, those brakes mount on standard cantilever post's don't they? Man that looks wicked awesome, I can only imagine how fun that must be to take on an all day ride, I'm wiping the drool off my computer screen at this very moment, I'm jealous !!! Nice stable you have there, so which is your favorite I'm guessing the beast? That would be my choice, Man I wish I bought one of those back in the day. VERY VERY NICE !! Thanks for the picture. Scott


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Bob, I've been noticing while looking at images of other beast of the east cannondale's that the rear dropout's on some of them extend way beyond the point where the stays meet and where dropout's are normally located looks like the chainstay length could be about two inches shorter on these bike's where your's are what's up with that? Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Maybe there is a Cannondale "Beast of the East" Thread?
Maybe Mr Olsen could tell us?
Maybe we should start a Mr. John Olsen Design and Derivative Thread!!
Or Maybe this just becomes that????
What do you all think????


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Well hey how about the john olsen cool creations forum, Anyways the edge and the old cannondale's and john all tie in together so I think it' all good, Design and derivative, I like that. Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Well hey how about the john olsen cool creations forum, Anyways the edge and the old cannondale's and john all tie in together so I think it' all good, Design and derivative, I like that. Scott


Togetherness.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Very nice, But you know I honestly think I like the look"s of the edge a little more now that I see them up close together, not that I don't think the beast isn't cool looking cause it is, There's just something about the edge, Guess that's why I have two, I've got that picture, copied it off the net. If you go to http:// www. retrobike.co.uk/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=22730 there is an old mountain biking test article on the edge, blew me away when I found it, I used to have that magazine. Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm sure it's the paint.
however, the Beast easily out performs the Edge, not to say the Edge is bad.

The link you posted doesn't seem to work.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Okay, Here is what you do, Go to www.retrobike.co.uk, Click on gallery&archive, Click on gallery 2, Click on manufacturer archive, Click on page 3, Click on raleigh archive, Click on reviews, I just checked it and the article is still there, Havn't been there in a long !!! time, Just took a few minutes to find it again, Man, my brain hurt's now, ENJOY!! Let me know if you find it or not


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey bob, I'm sure the beast doe's outperform the edge, I bet if the chainstay's were a little shorter the beast would be just about spot on at being an ideal techinical trail bike, That is one sweet beast you have there, Let me know if you have any trouble finding that site, I just followed the instruction's I gave you and it took me right to the article, Scott


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

That's funny - those are my scans with Retrobike wordmarks on them.

Never knew they stole over there...


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

richieb said:


> That's funny - those are my scans with Retrobike wordmarks on them.
> 
> Never knew they stole over there...


and did you have permission to scan and post those articles in the first place?

stealing? whatever


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I hereby give authorization for all pictures to be used everywhere. 

That is my only authority, and even that is self-granted. So grain of salt, grain of salt. 

John Olsen


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

StrangeBike13 said:


> I hereby give authorization for all pictures to be used everywhere.
> 
> That is my only authority, and even that is self-granted. So grain of salt, grain of salt.
> 
> John Olsen


 ...they're a petty lot here John. But I'm glad you cleared it up


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

Yo Stan, check your PMs :thumbsup:


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Stan, I'm confused. At what point was i petty?

Oh well. I'm just bummed they farmed my scans without telling me. It's legal, but ethically questionable.

When I want to post the fruits of someone else's labor, I at least give them the heads up.

But, this is _your_ forum after all, so the rules of your reality, as always, apply.

My mistake.


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## proto2000 (Jan 27, 2007)

Rep power is lagging Stan...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

richieb said:


> That's funny - those are my scans with Retrobike wordmarks on them.
> 
> Never knew they stole over there...


it gets worse.


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## StanleyButterfly (Nov 4, 2009)

da'Hoov, not sure who you're calling out as petty but maybe keep the personal attacks out of the forum.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

richieb said:


> Stan, I'm confused. At what point was i petty?
> 
> Oh well. I'm just bummed they farmed my scans without telling me. It's legal, but ethically questionable.
> 
> ...


I didn't mean to ruffle anyones feathers, I just find it funny when people repost pics, scans etc. it seems like someone invariably says "hey, those are my XXXX" . I just think it's petty, nothing more, nothing less.

and "my reality" doesn't even apply to my reality ....whatever and wherever that may be :eek

no mistake made, no need to apologize.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

StanleyButterfly said:


> da'Hoov, not sure who you're calling out as petty but maybe keep the personal attacks out of the forum.


no personal attack was made, just a general observation....but thanx fo your concern...


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*rep power?*



proto2000 said:


> Rep power is lagging Stan...


wow, my "rep power" whatever the hellllo that is , went from 4 to 0 in one day 

edit: just read the announcement on "Rep Power" ....kinda like the voting on American Idol


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## cousineddie (Oct 23, 2008)

da'HOOV said:


> wow, my "rep power" whatever the hellllo that is , went from 4 to 0 in one day


They finally fixed the bug that was causing inaccurate readings.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Mr. John olsen, Are you still out there, In your article techinical trailriding you say to put a longer stem on the edge, how much longer and how will that improve the bikes performance? Thanks Scott


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Tell ya what. When we did the Edge, I was still building bikes with relatively short top tubes based on my first mountain bike, a Mongoos Kos Kruiser BMX bike modified with gears and built up for trail/trials use. My buddy in LA, Ron Murakami, was telling me about bikes with longer top tubes, but I didn't beleive him. When I finally rode a long top tube bike, it really was better! Unfortunately, the Edge was done by then. So I rapidly came to prefer a longer top tube, even for trialsy riding, mainly because you had more room for climbing, went over the bars less coming off of huge logs, and it just fit my 6' frame better. So for me, the cockpit of a stock Edge is too short, but it may not be for you if you are shorter. If you're 6' or taller, you need a longer stem! 

Of course, they also put a seat post on it that was 1" too short for me to be able to ride it, but that's another story...


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi John, Thanks for the info, Scott.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Any time, my friend!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

How about another related equipment question? I understand that the tires were irc trials winners on these bikes which I believe are not made anymore. But back then I seem to remember an article/column you wrote in which you priased Specialized Ground Control tires as being the cats meow in mtb tires. I see that both 24 and 26 inch tires are available from the likes of bikepro.com. would these be sufficient to fill the gap for a "period correct" technical trail tire?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Keep in mind that everything that I wrote in the 80's was wrong. Given that, the IRC Trials Winners were good tires on hard pack and dry logs and rocks, but they filled up horribly in mud. The Ground Control tires cleared mud notably better (if not as well as Storm Controls). For real riding, the GC's would look period AND function well on most rides- I'd go that way!


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

The guy we hired to install our radon mitigation system, his name is Stan and bought his Edge brand new in Denver and up till 2 weeks ago was still riding on the OEM front tire!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Keep in mind that everything that I wrote in the 80's was wrong. Given that, the IRC Trials Winners were good tires on hard pack and dry logs and rocks, but they filled up horribly in mud. The Ground Control tires cleared mud notably better (if not as well as Storm Controls). For real riding, the GC's would look period AND function well on most rides- I'd go that way!


Would Storm Controls be better?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*storm controls*

No, Storm Controls were the ultimate tire for NW muddy trails- they didn't load up, and if you kept the wheel turning you kept moving. For most riding, they had way too little edge and area on the ground. They were perfect Anacortes, WA Winter Tires. Of course, our terrain and geology meant that we could ride in mud without damaging the trails, unlike, say, SoCal.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

So what would you think is best for the East Coast woods bikes?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> No, Storm Controls were the ultimate tire for NW muddy trails- they didn't load up, and if you kept the wheel turning you kept moving. For most riding, they had way too little edge and area on the ground. They were perfect Anacortes, WA Winter Tires. Of course, our terrain and geology meant that we could ride in mud without damaging the trails, unlike, say, SoCal.


So what would be best for the East Coast woods bikes?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

By the way the offer on the DiaComp brakes still stands!


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

If you want vintage looks, the Ground Controls would work the best in some mud/some dry. The 24" wheel limits your choices so much- My apologies! 

I adopted a friend's Edge to a 26" rear wheel, and it worked great. The wheel/tire fit fine, but I might have had to move one of the bridges (chainstay or seatstay). We also spread the drops to accomodate a 135mm spacing wheel for modern 9-speed. Unfortunately, we did enough brazing that he had to repaint it.


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## Devilock (Feb 28, 2011)

Sweet pair of bikes indeed


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi Bob, Ground controls were around the exact same time farmer john's were, 26x1.95 and 24x1.95, Yes sir, Back then ground controls were the bee's knee's, They still make a ground control, but I'm sure the tread design is different by now, Plus do they still make it in a 24 inch for the back? Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> I adopted a friend's Edge to a 26" rear wheel, and it worked great. The wheel/tire fit fine, but I might have had to move one of the bridges (chainstay or seatstay). We also spread the drops to accomodate a 135mm spacing wheel for modern 9-speed. Unfortunately, we did enough brazing that he had to repaint it.


Does that change the head angle much? and bottom bracket height?

I recently just ran into the 126 vs 135 mm spacing issue....it sucks.

and When you repainted it, did you paint it PINK?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Hi Bob, Ground controls were around the exact same time farmer john's were, 26x1.95 and 24x1.95, Yes sir, Back then ground controls were the bee's knee's, They still make a ground control, but I'm sure the tread design is different by now, Plus do they still make it in a 24 inch for the back? Scott


I have a 24" GroundControl now. However, I bought it like 12 years ago....
I see a difference in the tread.....so I'm puzzled by what you mean...

So StrangeBike13, which would be better, the ground control or the Farmer John rear...Both are supposedly available in 24"....And now a days with 24" Trials becoming a bigger item, the 24" tire market is opening up... What an idea!!!! Convert a Raleigh Edge to a 24" Trials bike!!!!!!!!! Supreme idea don't ya think?!?!?!? Now what would anyone name that???? (Llama...hehehehehe).....

(images from http://www.bikepro.com and http://www.mombat.org/MOMBAT/PartsForSalePages).

ouch, I think i slipped on a banana peal, fell and hit my head.....


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Here is a pic of a Farmer John (26") after a little east coast fun.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*DiaCompes!*

Thank you, Abaris- I'll take you up on that. do you have a private email?

John Olsen


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I never had much luck with the Farmer Johns, but I didn't spend too much time on them. Where I ride, mud is a frequent companion, so any rear tire had to be able to clear mud well. Ground Controls did OK, and the Farmer Johns seemed a bit more "pluggy". I don't know about 24" trials, but 20" trials tires are pretty heavy, almost like little motorcycle tires, with nicely sticky rubber. I loved them for moist rock and logs. I built a 20" tirals bike in about 87, and rode the pants off of it because those tires (michelins) were so much more grippy than any of the plastic mountain bike tires of the day.

And yes, the 26" rear wheel did steepen the head angle about 1 degree, and my buddy painted it an odd flesh tone.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Thank you, Abaris- I'll take you up on that. do you have a private email?
> 
> John Olsen


Certainly. I will PM you my email address.

EAST COAST BOB


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

I'm converting my edge's over to single speed, I'm using the old freewheel, fourth gear, the chainline is straight in that gear, I shortened the chain down as much as I could, I'm going to take the bike to the shop and have them put in some half links to see if they can dial in the correct chain tension, if not I'm going to go with a chain tensioner mounted off the rear derailleur mount,What kind of chain tensioner do you guys recommend? Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

If you use a 24 front then a 24 or 20 or a 16 works without a chain tensioner.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi Bob, Thanks for the info. the other bike has a 24 front chainring so that will come in handy, Thanks Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Hi Bob, Thanks for the info. the other bike has a 24 front chainring so that will come in handy, Thanks Scott


If you use a 26 in front then a 26, 22, 18, or 14 works in the rear with no chain tensioner (assuming you have a decent chain that is).

I hope you realize that single speed low enough to do Trials/Technical Trails is a rough ride to get to where you go off road...so I hope your transporting to the trail heads!!!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

I may be slow but I'm sure not fast, Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> I may be slow but I'm sure not fast, Scott


No problemo!
24/24 will give you a gear made to go not fast of 24 gear inches.

To answer your original question, i road a 32/28 which gives 27 gear inches and i thought that to be too low for a single speed. I could climb almost anything but on the flats i was a spining turtle. So i changed to a 24/16 whichis like 36 gear inches and the flats weren't nearly so bad (mind you, off road east coast woods narrow singletrack) but this old bod had trouble on the hills......too steep a gear for this bag of bones.

Next step for me is to try a 20/16 which should be around 30 inchers. 
So hey, if you think you're not fast, I'm even more not faster.....

Take care....


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I used to run single speeds on my trials bikes for one season because I spent so much time knocking rear deraillers off on the big rocks we have out here, especially in the motorcycle trials sections I used to ride. My Mongoos Kos Kruiser frame had horizontal drops, so I didn't have trouble getting the chain tight but single speeds are a pain. Chain tension gets off, and then you throw the chain. Oh, or the trails organizers throw in a long loop, and then you wish you had your derailler back again. In the end, I went back to deraillers with a gaurd, and never went back. Plus, back then, I was a monster, and could push a 35" gear up anything. THAT'S long gone!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

I here that, What happened to the good old days? I'm converting one of my edge's to singlespeed, I'm using the freewheel,picking the gear with the best chainline, 4th gear, shortening my chain,going to use some half links to try and get it as close as I can, (thinking of going to a half link chain) then using a chain tensioner to take up the rest,Looking at what's out there I think I want a non spring loaded one like the rennen, What do you guy's think on chain tensioner's, spring loaded or non spring loaded, I just want to do this once, So John where can we go to see footage of old school trials, back when they pedaled through sections, pictures of the old trials bikes, maybe old articles, I enjoy the old stuff, the new stuff, 20 inch wheels, hopping everywhere, there amazing don't get me wrong, I just liked the old way more, Thanks Scott


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Scott, if you're using a freewheel, there is a great rear freewheel out there with very, very rapid engagement- 72 points, versus 18 or so on a standard freewheel. It's the White Industries Trials freewheel- http://www.whiteind.com/singlespeedgearing/freewheels.html. Just thought I'd share that.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

A fast engagement would be wonderful! Also, trails is really hard on freewheels, and the multi-tooth jobs are a lot stronger. I used to eat Shimano freewheels for lunch. Shimano sent me an early Hone group once to try out. I broke the (standard, XT-type) cassette freehub pawls on my first ride. I bought another, redid the rear wheel, and broke the new one a week later. I called Shimano and told them they had a problem. They sent be a box of a dozen freehub bodies, and I went through it in 5 months. Now, I was 230 lbs, strong, and loved very steep climbs (Scappoose, Mini-Moab, Post Canyon for you Portlandians), but still- shouldn't they be designing with a bit of margin? Sigh. 

I too miss rolling trials, bigtime! As soon as hopping, which I suck at, came in, I knew that my time as local rooster was over! I liked the rolling trials because it's really just distilled difficult trail riding, which is my main love... Sigh (again)


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

The white industries trials freewheel is only 18T. So that means a 22 or 26 chain ring. That's 30 gear inches or 35 gear inches. If ur like me then the 22 is the better option. 

Rolling trials seems to be the old school forrunner to technical trail riding. 

Single Speed Technical Trail Riding (SSTTR) is a good way to get in shape fast and hone your bike handling skills at the same time! 

Ya got to love it! Go for it Scott!!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks for the info. uphiller, Scott


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks for the info guy's, Hey john How about a custom fit bashplate for the raleigh edge, like an onza, that would be so cool and handy, with like little traction grooves on the bottom to grip on logs, seriously, is there any you know of that would work on an edge? Scott


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*Skid plates... but wait*

There are or were some clamp-on bash plates around. I got a Monty unit and fitted it to my 20" bike, but I had to braze fitting on. Another approach that might work even better is something I haven't seen anybody else do. You get a left side crank from a mountain tandem, which is a drive side crank with pedal threads for the left hand pedal. You install a mid-position, small, rock ring on both right and left cranks, and now you have a rolling skid plate, one that is nice and wide, so that you can sit on top of a log all day while to gather fear concerning the descent off of said log. You just need to find a tandem crank with the same small and middle ring bolt circles.

Snazzy, what? I had this on one bike back in the 80's, and it worked fabu.

And yes, rolling trials in the 80s were basically just the really hard parts of trails, and it's just like riding a technical trail, but with observers and spectators! I miss it. I put such events on from 82 to 87, and then the hoppers had taken over, and I didn't have much interest or skill in hopping...


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Here is a source from a reliable e-shop I use all the time. Others will have them too. Make sure you match your crank lengths! Going to 2 180mm cranks would be good too.

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=14693&category=1628

Tell them Uncle Knobby sent you, and they will charge you slightly more.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

And as for bash plates, check out this very cool shop:

http://trialspads.com/shop/bash-plates.html

They have LOTS of good single speed, trailsy stuff. They may deserve our support!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Here is a source from a reliable e-shop I use all the time. Others will have them too. Make sure you match your crank lengths! Going to 2 180mm cranks would be good too.
> 
> http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=14693&category=1628
> 
> Tell them Uncle Knobby sent you, and they will charge you slightly more.


I don't get why you cant use two of the same with square taper? Is it an offset issue, i.e. slamming into chain stays?

I don't see 180s there. But Im sure other places would have them.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Bob, you do have to worry about clearance, and you might have to get a different BB. But the main thing is that pedals are right-hand threaded on one side of the bike, and left hand threaded on the other side, so if you ran two right side crank drive arms, you would have to buy two right side pedals, which means you buy two sets of pedals! Tandem arms usually are just drive side arms (right side) but with left side arm pedal threading. If you go this way, make sure that the left side tandem arm DOES have both sets of holes so that you can mount a rock ring to it to match the current drive or right side crank arm, or there's no point in doing it. Tandem arms could provide just the bigger bolt circle, but that's OK as long as syou can get the right size of rock ring for it. 

So the issues could be: 1. does the new tandem arm clear my frame? 2. Does the tandem arm have the right bolt circle to allow me to mount the same size rock ring as on my current drive side crank arm? 3. Should I just buy a skid plate for $51?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> But the main thing is that pedals are right-hand threaded on one side of the bike, and left hand threaded on the other side, so if you ran two right side crank drive arms, you would have to buy two right side pedals, which means you..


 ...would have to pedal backwards on the left side to keep the pedal from coming off????

So why was it that only old Chrysler products had left hand thread on the left hand wheel nuts??????

Does it really mater......

I really don't know......

I also used to run my Piranha Pro TC front tire backwards.... but someone told that was the reason I was so slow.....


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

No, you have to pedal with your right foot under the pedal. This is very difficult to master if you have a very low saddle. 

I think a little blue loctite would solve all problems! And as for Chrysler, I own a Chrysler. Don't even go there!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

I own one also.............and an Edge............hmmmmmmmmm.................


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

The stereo probably works better on the edge, and the transmission is less likely to explode!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey John, A bash ring on both sides that would look so trick, I bet that would work great on logs, So I was looking at the site you mentioned, trialspads.com and I think I found my chain tensioner, the trialtech race fixed tensioner, It's out of stock right now so I'll contact them, see when they will have more, check it out, tell me what you think, Scott


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

That seemed like a good tensioner- maybe that's why it's out of stock! Handy website, too. The two bash ring settup worked well for me, but it was a lot of monkey business to set up. Well, more money than monkey, I guess.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi John, Nice website, little bit of everything, I'm going to contact them in the next couple weeks, see if they are going to be getting more, can't beat that price either, You don't by any chance have any pictures of the two bashring settup you had you could possibly show us, Doing logs with that kind of settup would be cool, very clever, Sounded like a lot of work but it sure would be a cool settup to have on a bike, Scott


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

That was well back in the pre-digital camera days, and I wasn't much of a photographer, I'm afraid! The two ring trick worked well, especially on logs or wide obstacles, and I'd recommend it. The only thing against it is that it costs some extra money to do.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Hey John!
I found some UmmaGumma 24x2.5 SWorks tires. 
I know there big (wide) and actually clear the seat stays!
However, the chainstays are almost exactly the same width as the tire.
So, do you know of a way to create some clearance in the chainstay department?
Preferably without heat!


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

abaris said:


> Hey John!
> I found some UmmaGumma 24x2.5 SWorks tires.
> I know there big (wide) and actually clear the seat stays!
> However, the chainstays are almost exactly the same width as the tire.
> ...


take an XActo knife to the offending knobs on the tires.....seriously:thumbsup:


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Sell 'em and get some tires that fit!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

da'HOOV said:


> take an XActo knife to the offending knobs on the tires.....seriously:thumbsup:


surely you're just kidding....
I can imagine the headlines now: "Man dies from wounds while cutting off his offending knob..."



yo-Nate-y said:


> Sell 'em and get some tires that fit!


So to summarize, you guys think I should either mod the tires or sell the tires and keep the bike...

I'd rather sell the bike or trade (+ money) for an Ibis Mt. Trials (or 1991 E-stay Fisher or E-stay StrangeBike or copy designed/built by J.Olsen)... But 
1) no one seems to want to sell me one of those and
2) not sure if the tire would fit anyway.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Widening the chain stays would be a nightmare. You would need heat, or brutal force, and you can't go out too much with the chainstays without hitting the crank arms. 

I'd actually recommend the Xacto knife method! If you can get 1/4" clearance by snipping off the edge of the outer lugs, that may be enough. I only vaguely remember those tires, but I think they were pretty good. Maybe worth an hour with a knife!

I've also mounted the tires, inflated them hard, and held the wheel/tire up agaist a power sander!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Thanks to all. 
As always you offer sound advice.
Exacto it is and I'll take back the hydraulic jack that i was gonna use to push the chainstays wider!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

abaris said:


> Thanks to all.
> As always you offer sound advice.
> Exacto it is and I'll take back the hydraulic jack that i was gonna use to push the chainstays wider!


Well I did the exacto thing to the Specialized SWorks Chunder UmmaGumma 25x2.5....Worked...
Just love these tires...

Thanks d'Hoov and StrangeBike13!!!


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I took photos of the Strange Bikes I've still got in my posession, but I can't figure out how to post therm here. What the hel's a URL?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

click post reply

scroll down to Additional Options 

Click Upload images

follow the directions......


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

don't use "POST QUICK REPLY"


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Here are some Strange Bikes (and a cool shot from the Columbia Gorge of the Millenium trail).


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

thanks, Bob!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

haha! I like that sticker. Reminds me of the Fremont troll under the Aurora bridge.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*Trolls*

Those decals were made for me by Genny Gebhart and Lee Kanning, who lived not a mile from the Fremont Bridge. There must be something in the water there... Or is it the proximity to Ballard?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*Trolls*

Those decals were made for me by Genny Gebhart and Lee Kanning, who lived not a mile from the Fremont Bridge. There must be something in the water there... Or is it the proximity to Ballard?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Anytime John. It's nice to get a glimpse of more John Olsen creations!!
Do they have numbers? 

Here is how close my rear tire fits now!


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Yeah, I'm gonna say that that tire is about the limit! You could try to dent the chainstays, got some ideas on how to do that.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Hi guys! This is John Olsen. I just discovered this thread (amazed to find it, actually). I was Uncle Knobby from 1994 until about 2002.


So if you were Uncle Knobby, who was Capt. Dondo?

For Scott Murray, How's the single speed edge and log climbing going?

abaris


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I did Uncle Knobby from '94 on, after my predecessor pissed of the guy who ran Nightsun (!). go figure, but good for me. Captain Dondo was Don Cuerdon, and he actually edited my Uncle Knobby submissions, and he was great at it! Dondo is still around, I think living in New England or PA or somewhere. He is a great guy, and I miss his columns.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi Bob, Just waiting for a sette single speed chain tensioner I ordered in the mail to get here, Didn't really want a spring loaded tensioner but the price was right and if it works I'll be HAPPY, I want to get a rennen tensioner eventually ($50.00) Week two no working bike, This sucks, Those guys looked like they were right out of an episode of C.H.I.P.S, Tee shirts, short shorts, tube socks and tennis shoes now that is custom riding gear, Wait a second that's how I used to dress, Anyways what a cool blast from the past, And there riding in dirt, through creeks, over logs and rocks WOW riding trials not in a mall parking lot over a course of all man made obsticles what a concept, Give me old timers trials, OFF ROAD, on courses laid out over TECHNICAL NATURAL TERRAIN, Once I get my bike done I'll post some pictures, Oh by the way someone dumped a BUNCH more BIG logs off where I was telling you about the one that's, down the street from my house, You and Mr. Olsen would love it, getting late, Scott Murray signing off


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Guys, Got the sette tensioner the other day, Put it on, barely fit, You'll see what I mean, Going to go for a good off road ride sun. will report back on it's performance then, will try to get some pictures posted as soon as I can get my one son to help me post some, It's actually a pretty trick little tensioner and so far the bike has worked GREAT, I ordered another for my other edge, Anyway's I'll post some pictures for you guys to check out asap, Scott I may not be fast but I sure am slow Murray signing off


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Guys, No issues with the tensioner worked great, Still need to bounce it around some more real good to see how it does then, so on to something different, anybody got any pictures or info on the fat chance mountain trials bike, got some great pictures from bush pig but I thought some of you other guys might have some insight on this bike, I found an image on the net of a 1985 spec sheet with a picture of one, I remember them from the good old days but would like more pictures and info on this bike if anyone could help me out? Thanks Scott


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Guys, Need some advice, I want to go with a square tapered sealed cartridge bearing bottom bracket on my bikes,I want a maintenance free one, been looking at the shimano un 55, I want something inexpensive but will last me a long time with no problems, Is that a good choice or would something else be better, anyboby know off hand what size I need? anyways if you guys will give me some feedback on the bottom bracket please, Thanks Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Hey scott, i use one of those no problem.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Look here.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi Bob,Thanks I'll give the un 55 a try,I just found the american trials steeplejack on mombat, SWEET!! Thanks for your help and advice, Scott


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi Bob, so how do like life with the singlespeed? I'd have to say I'm digging it, clean and simple like a bike is supposed to be, just to let you know the sette works but there is play between the part that threads into your derailleur hanger and the actual tensioner body, so far still works good no issues just wish places had pride in making a quality product instead of just a cheap one also the jockey wheel kind of floats the way it's mounted, I really like the design of it just if the quality was better, anyways what's new with your bike? saw your picture you posted can't really see the rear hub and gear, so you say you made it from your old freewheel? Going to have to save up some money get me a shimano un 55 sealed cartradge bottom bracket, Thanks again for the reply,Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Scott,
Singlespeed is slow!
I've been running a 20 front tooth and a 16 freewheel cheepo single freewheel on the rear. This gives me a 30 inch gear which allows me to grind up hills and cost on back down. Anything higher geared is just too difficult to go up the short steep stuff around here. I am thinking of going lower and adding a second single speed for the dirt roads. but still working on the two right combos that give me the the gear ratios I'm looking for with the same length chain.

I have added Maguras to the Edge. I know it distracts from the originality of the bike, but I want to start doing some more serious trials moves and need really good brakes....Does anyone know when magura HS33 first came on the scene?????

I am keeping all the original parts bagged and tagged for future Vintage restoration.

So here are some pics of the current state:


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Bob, Damn that looks good, Nice job on the singlespeed conversion, Nice brakes, You must have some wicked awesome parts laying around in your garage, You should leave it just like that Bob, looks badass! So how long did it take to trim the back tire? Looks really good with 2.50's on it front and rear, really good, So just let me know when your ready to sell it and how much, Good job Bob!!, Scott


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Those look SOO good with fat rubber on them..nice ride


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Thanks Scott, da'HOOV (I've been meaning to ask, where does that screen name come from?)

As you well know, I am not in the market to sell (at this point). And I have twice as much into the tires and brakes as I paid for the bike. But the bike is priceless with Olsen's signature on it. 

My goal is to relive a few years with the equipment that I wanted back then and just couldn't get (afford, constrained by family responsibilties, etc.). I will be happy when I can ride up to my picnic table and "hop" up on it, old school style and then gracefully drop off the other side. 

28+lbs is sort of heavy to do this with but hey you never know.

To trim the rear tire took less than an hour and more than a half hour. Not the most exciting way to make it fit. But the extra volume of the 2.5 inchers is greatly appreciated. and gobs of traction. Haven't been to the big rocks to check out the sticky compound yet. 

And the brakes combined with the tires STOP the bike at command with just a touch of that sweet musical trials chirps. 

I kind of like calling this bike a Resto-Rod.....

Now if I could find a shorter PINK stem.... and some wider bars.....


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

On the BB, there are like 3 variables. You've got a 68mm British thread (BSC) shell. The other variables are how wide is the axle from end to end, and how far does the right (drive) side stick out? If you match the axle length and the right side length, you have a fit. 

I've used those Shimano BBs for years with no problems. I'd say "Why pay more?". 

Abaris, your bike looks great! Hey, if you had a chain tensioner, you could run 2 chainrings (inside and middle) and two cogs on the rear, and have a high-ish gear and a trials-ish gear.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Abaris, your bike looks great! Hey, if you had a chain tensioner, you could run 2 chainrings (inside and middle) and two cogs on the rear, and have a high-ish gear and a trials-ish gear.


Thanks john...
It would look better if i could find some "PINK" touch-up paint.

Somehow you are able to read my mind! I have been contemplating doing almost that but without a tensioner ala "Sheldon Brown". I think a 24/24 super trial-ish and a 32/12 use the same chain length.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

You could go to an auto paint store and have them match the Edge pink, and sell you a pint or quart, and then apply it with a PreVal bottle... 

Has anybody ever found a rattle can paint that matches? I doubt it.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

abaris said:


> da'HOOV (I've been meaning to ask, where does that screen name come from?).....


When I was "stan4bikes" someone mentioned that there was a "sucking" sound in my area implying I was "vacuuming" up all the available bikes off CL and garage sales. I can't remember if it was me or someone else who coined "Hoover"...I just shortened it to "da'HOOV"


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey guys, John thanks for the info on the bottom bracket, With yours and bob's blessing I'll give the shimano un 55 a try, Thanks to both of you again, The paint color as I understand it is salmon, (funny I always that was a fish) I have a rattle can of krylon in salmon and it looks real close to the stem, unfortunately for the frame you'll probably have to go to a paint store to have them match it up to get the glossy shine the frame has, The magura hydraulic rim brakes are known to be kinda noisey aren't they or is that just all hydraulic rim brakes in general? I want to track down some tioga factory dh tires in the 24x2.3 size and give them a try on my bikes, Wish they hadn't stop making that size, love that tread pattern, burley tire, Almost 2 a.m. Thanks again John and Bob for all your help and wisdom, This is Scott I may not be fast but I sure am slow Murray signing off


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey guys, So John, Bob, Have either of you guys gone to the mombat? Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Hey guys, So John, Bob, Have either of you guys gone to the mombat? Scott


Do you mean physically or by web or meta-physically?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Bob, Physically gone to the museum, the pictures on there website of the place, It looks amazing, All those amazingly wicked looking bikes, I'm thinking they should have a nighttime security guard, ME!! Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Hey Bob, Physically gone to the museum, the pictures on there website of the place, It looks amazing, All those amazingly wicked looking bikes, I'm thinking they should have a nighttime security guard, ME!! Scott


Unfortunately, i have not been there. Looks like an awesome place to go. I think Mr. Olsen is part of the museum!!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey guys, I need a rear brake for one of my edge's, What of the current bmx u brakes that are available would you recommend, I want a strong powerful brake that can lock up the rear wheel, easy to adjust, smooth feel not grabby something that I can run a currently available brake brace with if there is such a beast, Any ideas? Thanks Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

I'll leave this one for the experts.....John, et. al.
I think Olsen wrote a mag article once on braking way back when....
now there are discs.....Brake Therapy Conversion Kit.
If you look at Olsen's StrangBike number 13, I think you'll see one...but John can verify.
of coarse, you need a new wheel....
I'll leave this one for the experts....


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Bob,Thanks for the feedback, That would be a nice way to go but thats way to expensive for me, I was thinking more along the lines of a good new u brake (bmx) rather then going with deore xt u brakes or suntour roller cam brakes that are 23 plus year old designs, Scott


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

There are some pretty good modern U-Brake designs out there. Even Tektro makes one, with sealed bearing pivots and CNC construction, for 40 bucks or so. There is also the Flybikes CNC U-Brake, which looks cool but seems to have something of a different geometry than you might need, possibly resulting in less braking power. But then I am no expert on BMX braking needs, and most BMX riders I knew never cared about the brakes too much.
In fact, the old XT U-Brake has something of a following among BMXers, as it is tough and reliable and the return spring makes the brake snap back open quickly, something which was never true of the Suntour versions of the Rollercam.
And the best upgrade of all is Shimano SLR Plus brake levers, double the rim clearance AND double the braking power because of a special cam inside... And if you need instant, no modulation stops on the rear, you can get KoolStop salmon-colored pads for a song. On the right rims and with the right brakes and levers, they lock the wheel instantly- until they pick up a very thin film of aluminum dust from the surface of the rim, making them work like ordinary pads. In my experience, this happens after about 20 minutes of riding. 
I used them on the rear, and always carried a little eyedropper bottle full of rubbing alcohol. When the pads got a little glazed and stopped being instant stoppers, I would practice more rolling moves, then hop off, open the brake and clean the pad and rims of dust (the pads pick up the aluminum dust and then leave it back on the rim), connect the brake and start hopping again.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks uphiller for the info. been checking out dans comp, lots of u brakes. One of my son's is really into bmx, used to work at calabasas in santa claria I think it was and he said all the guys there ranted and raved over the fly bikes u brake, ( I would hope so at 75.00 bucks a brake) he also recommened the odyssey evolver 2, You know when I asked him about bmx u brakes and which he thought were the best he said why use brakes, What's up with those bmx guys? Thanks again for the info. Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Boy. The edge is dead....

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Bob, Scott here, What do you mean the edge is dead, What's wrong? What happened? Last we talked you where going to get a new sweet ride, nothing wrong I hope,


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Bob, You out there? What's going on? Contact me, Scott


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## freemarketryan (Apr 15, 2012)

no edge


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Opps, i meant to say "the edge THREAD is dead". 

Sorry for the delay - been traveling.......

My edge is back in its tricked out 26/24 sweet state. 

Bob

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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Bob, Good to here from you, sent you a pm but the format is different let me know if you got it, still running singlespeed setups on both my edge's, 26 front 24 rear on one and 30 front and 24 rear on the other, I'll try to get some images of them on the forum for you to see, This is Scott ( I may not be fast but I sure am slow) signing off.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey anbody out there in raleigh edge forum land know where I could score some tioga 24x2.30 factory dh tires? Scott


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Ebay does not have any right now. 
The 24" size is enjoying something of a renaissance among trials riders, mainly street-oriented ones- check out the following link:
24" Trials Tires


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks uphiller, Been to there site before,I have to say I like the looks of the kenda kinetics, sure wished tioga still made the factory dh in a 24x2.30, sure wish the edge had the room in the stays for 24 inch tires available these days but then thats what exacto knives are for, anyways back in those days a 2.125 was the widest tire there was, Thanks again for the info. Hey Bob you out there, did you get my pm? Anybody out there know what happened to John Olsen? John are you out there we all miss you. Scott


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## StanleyButterfly (Nov 4, 2009)

I'd hate to disappoint you but bob isn't going to answer you. It's getting creepy.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

IRC Kujo DH in 2.35" was also not bad, but is rare these days. Keep your eyes peeled on eBay for both, you may get lucky.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StanleyButterfly said:


> I'd hate to disappoint you but bob isn't going to answer you. It's getting creepy.


 Really????!!!!!
I don't don't have a dragon tattoo!

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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StanleyButterfly said:


> I'd hate to disappoint you but bob isn't going to answer you. It's getting creepy.


And Stanley Butterfly, do you own an Edge?

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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

My old riding buddy Josh Snyder moved to Rochester, NY, and I gave him Strange Bike 12 to restore. Here's a picture:

Oops, I don't know how to post a picture. How do old Edgers post pictures?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> My old riding buddy Josh Snyder moved to Rochester, NY, and I gave him Strange Bike 12 to restore. Here's a picture:
> 
> Oops, I don't know how to post a picture. How do old Edgers post pictures?


when you reply to thread, there is a section called Additional Options below the box where you type, attach file, upload images.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*Strangebike 12*

This bike is being restored (and will be ridden) by Josh Snyder, now of Rochester, NY, formerly of Mount Vernon, WA (hotbed of odd technical bike creation, probably due to something in the water).


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*Headset woes*

By the way, I am trying to restore a 92 Cannondale Beast of the East, and I need to find an affordable 1.25" headset, threaded. Anybody got one laying around? I can buy a new Chris King for only (gulp) $149.95. There are several on Ebay for about that much money. Help!

John Olsen


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> By the way, I am trying to restore a 92 Cannondale Beast of the East, and I need to find an affordable 1.25" headset, threaded. Anybody got one laying around? I can buy a new Chris King for only (gulp) $149.95. There are several on Ebay for about that much money. Help!
> 
> John Olsen


Hey John, instead of flooding the forum with wanted spam, we encourage people to offer things for trade in the trade thread or get a wanted ad for free through the classifieds. Or, do what most of us have to do and get used stuff through ebay or craigslist.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Hey John,
Long time, no post!!! 

That is one cool frame. It may not be an Edge but it is an Olsen derivative from the master himself.
What are the specs?
Being from the Rochester Area, I'll be looking for the bike on the trails (but not until October since I'm out of town until then). 
Hopefully, your friend has found out about the Victor Mountain bike park. 

There are are few others also.

Not much elevation around Rochester though.

I have successfully shortened my edge chain-stays to 14.5 inches with a BB height of 14.5 inches. and of coarse a steeper head angle (~75 degrees) and shorter wheelbase (~38")

It's not as twitchy as I thought it might be.

No pics because I left the bike in Rochester and I won't be back until October since I'm out of town until then. 

Keep us Edgers posted on the rebuild!!


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I'll get you in contact with Josh, and you two can get together and have a Twitchfest. 

Bad news: He is a marine
Good news: He whines a lot.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> I'll get you in contact with Josh, and you two can get together and have a Twitchfest.
> 
> Bad news: He is a marine
> Good news: He whines a lot.


haha! great post.


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> I'll get you in contact with Josh, and you two can get together and have a Twitchfest.
> 
> Bad news: He is a marine
> Good news: He whines a lot.


HAHAHAHAAAAA.

John the next time I am home you will pay for giving out my secrets. LOL


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

girlonbike said:


> Hey John, instead of flooding the forum with wanted spam, we encourage people to offer things for trade in the trade thread or get a wanted ad for free through the classifieds. Or, do what most of us have to do and get used stuff through ebay or craigslist.


Really GOB? lighten up a bit  John was doing cool stuff with bikes before you were born. Have some respect.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

da'HOOV said:


> Really GOB? lighten up a bit  John was doing cool stuff with bikes before you were born. Have some respect.


I'm sure he was but I'm just trying to be fair. You can chill out yourself, Stan.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*gosh, I'm sorry.*



da'HOOV said:


> Really GOB? lighten up a bit  John was doing cool stuff with bikes before you were born. Have some respect.


I guess I insulted GOB with this post. I apologize.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

da'HOOV said:


> I guess I insulted GOB with this post. I apologize.


Thanks.


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

Don't feel bad John, I got in trouble for that also. A moderator explained it to me and there is a rhyme and reason.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Guitar Ted said:


> Umm.....wait a minute......I get confused. I think that's him. Capn' Dondo was the other one. Don Cuerdon? Pink Ibis dude, right?
> 
> Anyway, buy the Raleigh!


 Sorry to thread jack for a minute...

Now you have my head spinning, the guy with the Afro and handlebar mustache was "Light Brown" in one of the oldie moto mags, he use to wear and sell "It takes knobby balls to ride motocross" T-shirts!

If ya didn't buy the Raleigh, buy it, if ya did... GREAT!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey John, Glad to have you back,Since you are the reason this forum is even here, It's been way to long since i've checked the forum, anyways it's good to here from you again,


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

And I, in turn, am glad to have YOU back, Scott! Happy Edging!

At least our Edges don't have annoying nylon strings that break when you are only half way down the sidewalk, or emit smelly two-stroke fumes. I don't know where that came from; too much coffee this morning?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

So John now that you're back, what happens if I remove the seat from my Edge? How do I plug the seat tube hole?
.
.
.

Sent from my BNTV250 using Tapatalk 2


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

With flesh! HA HA HA HA HA! 

Not recommended. It hurts too much when you land there... Don't ask me how I know. How about a very light plastic (BMX?) saddle on a cut down seat post instead? The problem is finding a 25.8 (or whatever weird size it is) seatpost to cut down so you still have the stock one.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks John, or when trials was ridden not hopped,on bikes with seats, on natural terrain courses and when there was this way cool design in mountain bikes called the mountain trials bike with 26/24 wheels on them, Boy I miss those times but at least I have two edges that I can lower the seats down on and pedal my brains out while not going very fast at all (which makes crashing a little less painful) and enjoy those times again, thanks to you.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> With flesh! HA HA HA HA HA!
> 
> Not recommended. It hurts too much when you land there... Don't ask me how I know. How about a very light plastic (BMX?) saddle on a cut down seat post instead? The problem is finding a 25.8 (or whatever weird size it is) seatpost to cut down so you still have the stock one.


OUCH!
So...just how do you know?
There's gotta be a humorous whimsical story there somewhere!

Oh, oh, oh....memories from the eighties .... Cindy Whitehead winning a NORBA race with no seat......


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

26.4, That's the size of the seatposts on both my edges.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

In the mid 80s, I built a bike with a 26" front wheel, a 20" rear wheel (so I could use sticky trials tires), and no seat. The top tube/seat tube/seat stays came to a rather sharp confluence. Yes, I did hit it once, and it hurt like bejeebers. We called this the Buffalo Bike (small hindquarters, large forward body. It also had a 14.5" bottom bracket height. Strange times... 

I remember Cindy Whitehead- she was my hero!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

I would think an old uni bmx plastic bmx seat and a cut down seatpost or a small super light road bike seat with a cut down post wouldn't weigh that much, Besides I'd need a seat, I have tired old legs syndrome, Wouldn't it be cool if shimano brought back the old beartrap deore xt pedals, I have a pair of those on both my edge's and I agree with john, these were by far the best pedal ever made. How about a vintage class in trials nothing newer 1990 ?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

26 inch front wheel, 20 inch rear, that would be interesting looking to say the least, How did it steer? I would think it would have had alot of wheel flop with that big a difference in wheel sizes/ So do you have any pictures you'd like to share with the rest of us of some of your past creations,rides you went on or competitions you were in, maybe some pictures of your edge? and more stories please, I can't tell you how cool it is to have you on this forum.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Scott, I am still riding those Shimano XT beartrap pedals 3 times a week! They are wonderful, and Shimano should (but will never) make them again. Vintage rolling trials would be wonderful, although my body wouldn't appreciate it (elbow tendons made me stop doing ultra-technical stuff a long time ago). Did you know that the Brits have changed the rules of moto trials so you can't stop and hop anymore? Back to the '80s! Yeah! The 26/20 had no problem with wheel flop- that strictly a function of head angle and fork offset, and the Buffalo had very similar geometry to an edge, maybe a bit steeper and less offset, so even less wheel flop. It was wonderful with that sticky tire- 20" trials tires were the first MTB tires with sticky rubber compounds, taken from motorcycling trials. Really bad in mud, tho, due to the tight tread compound.


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## bigwooly (Aug 14, 2012)

nice find.


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## MnemonicMike (Aug 9, 2012)

Just some advice, please. I'm cleaning out the garage and I've got an Edge without too much wear and tear on (still got the rubber whiskers on the original tires) that I'm going to get rid of, but I wanted to ask where the best place to post a for sale notice is. I did motorcycle trials for a lot of years and never could get my oomph going to do it on bicycles. Would prefer to sell to an enthusiast rather than just toss it on the open market.

Best.

Mike


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Somebody should buy the patent from shimano and start making those pedals again, I love those things, those pedals are to good to just have the patent sit and gather dust. Sounds like the brits have the right idea, What class did you ride in back in the 80's if you had a bike with two different size wheels say 26/24 or 24/20, A vintage rolling trials multi size wheels class, yeah now that would be the ticket, with rim brakes and require a seat. So is there a class nowdays that allows a bike with two different size wheels? The buffalo sounds interesting wish you had pictures, any sites on the net that has pictures of trials from back in the 80's?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Whoa, ah say, whoa son! Classes? We put on our own events in Washington with no organization, just myself and a phone list. Sometimes, we rode in Puget Sound Trialers motorcycle events (they were very nice to us and let us ride their sections). If we did our own, I usually had 2 or 3 lines (Expert, Intermediate, Novice). There were absolutely no bike classes. You could have run a unicycle or a track bike if you wanted. The rules were the same as m/c trials. At that time, stopping was 5, but we didn't enforce it. Stopping and dabbing, now THAT was a five. Hopping came to us via a rider from Vancouver BC who kicked our butts. At that point, I was having elbow trouble, and retired to just plain old technical mountain bike riding...


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Well, I got e-yelled at the other week when I asked if anybody had a certain sized head set, so I guess you couldn't just mention it here, in the obvious place, the website devoted to that particular bike. I'm just curious how much you might ask for it, and if you have any pictures of it, if that doesn't engage the anti-whatever police?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Scott, patents aren't a problem- they would long-since be expired, and they usually only work in one country anyway. In fact, I think that there were pretty close copies back in the 80s, before all the Cool Kids rushed off the clipless pedals. It wasn't until North Shore and Freeriding got going in the 90s that anybody bought platform pedals again. Now they have come back in favor, and most stores carry them. If you had tried to find good platform pedals in 1995, quite a different story!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Grass Roots racing, Why is it that always seems to be the best and most fun type of racing, Whatever form of racing it is it seems like once the big sponsers step into the picture then it quits being just fun, to many rules, everyone starts taking everything way to seriously and it becomes just another way for someone to make a buck.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So Mnemonic Mike, Can you post some pictures and a price?


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## MnemonicMike (Aug 9, 2012)

Well, I don't want to get yelled at; I was just asking where is the best place since I don't want to waste a lot of time just to unload a space-taker-upper. I'll be glad to take it to the best-recommended place.


Oops.... the attempted preview tells me that have to already have 10 or more posts on the forum before I can post pix or links, so I can't even give the URL's to where they are. Hmmmmm... let me think about this.

Anyway, I'm in Durango, Colorado, if that helps.

Mike


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

MnemonicMike said:


> Just some advice, please. I'm cleaning out the garage and I've got an Edge without too much wear and tear on (still got the rubber whiskers on the original tires) that I'm going to get rid of, but I wanted to ask where the best place to post a for sale notice is. I did motorcycle trials for a lot of years and never could get my oomph going to do it on bicycles. Would prefer to sell to an enthusiast rather than just toss it on the open market.
> 
> Best.
> 
> Mike


Mike,

The best place to put an ad is the vintage bike classified section here. The ad is 2 bucks and I'll walk you through it if you'd like. Feel free to pm me. We can then start a new thread and everybody in this forum will see it.

Sorry, strangebike, but that wasn't an e yell. I was quite polite and if it offended you, I'm sorry. If you need a headset, feel free to ask for it if you have something for trade in the vintage for trade thread or take out a FREE wanted ad. More info in the sticky at the top of the forum.

Thanks guys!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Guys need some help here, I don't know gear inches so hear is my question, running a singlespeed setup on my edge, had a 26 tooth chanring in front and a 24 tooth rear cog in back, switched to a 24 tooth in front, what tooth rear cog do I need to run to get my gearing back to the same as it was with the 26 tooth front chainring? Thanks


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

22

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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks Bob, So it won't be till october before we can see your new & improved edge, Can't wait.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Thanks Bob, So it won't be till october before we can see your new & improved edge, Can't wait.


Actually, I've gotten a wee bit homesick, so I'm heading back for the weekend. I'll see if I can snap a few photos of my pathetic brazing. I truly must warn y'all that the paint don't match. Bob


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

COOL, I can't wait to see it, So what exactly did you do to the frame? Sounds like you gave it full service treatment?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Bob!! That looks so cool, Nice job, Man thats really shortened down, I bet it gets crazy traction climbing now, So after you take it for it's first off road trip let us know how it compares to stock,It looks like a ibis trials comp with bigger wheels,


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So Bob, How do you like it now? How's it handle? Now I want your bike even more then I did before,That looks totally trick.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> So Bob, How do you like it now? How's it handle? Now I want your bike even more then I did before,That looks totally trick.


Easy to pull the front wheel up! Easy to nose wheelie! =>easy to face plant if not careful!

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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Looks to me like a prototype for the new 2013 Raleigh the Edge, Improved tire clearance so you can run 2.5 inch wide tires, Solves rear tire issues, Lots of real good 24x2.50 tires out there, Magura rim brakes, Strong powerful brakes, I still love that nashbar, the rise,the bend, everything about that handlebar, Short chainstays for awesome traction, Yes sir that about covers it. I say again, Very nice job BOB, Looks TRICK!!


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Scott, your 26/24 gave you an 1.08 ratio, or a 28.2" gear (front teeth/rear teeth)*26= gear inches. 

In order to get a 1.08 ratio with a 24 front, you get as close as you can with a 22 tooth!

Viola. You now owe me a 16 oz. mocha at La Crema Coffee House, La Conner, WA. That is my standard fee.


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> You now owe me a 16 oz. mocha at La Crema Coffee House, La Conner, WA. That is my standard fee.


We might need to have an intervention. Say it out loud with me John.

"Hi my name is John Olsen and I am addicted to mocha's".


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Josh, you are just upset because you are the only one who has ever actually paid up!


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

LOL! It was long over due and I was glad to.

So it was bizarre seeing an Edge (Bob's) again after all these years. He said it's not pink it's sssssalmon, ok it was me that said it with the extra flair. His shortened chain stays really give it the wheel base like a Strange Bike.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks John, You know what I'd really enjoy doing is find a way you, Bob and I could get together for like pizza and beer, We could share stories about how we each got all the various cuts,gashes and bruises on our bodies from past mountain biking adventures. So John what do you think of bob's bobbed bike?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I think it's wonderful! Bob, did you build a jig to hold everything straight, or did you just wing it? TIG or gas/braze? 

I probably told you guys about this, but I did a 26" rear conversion to an Edge back in the 90s for a friend named Larry Trigve. It was done for tire availability. It seemed to improve all the geometry (a bit steeper, more BB height). No pics, sadly.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> I think it's wonderful! Bob, did you build a jig to hold everything straight, or did you just wing it? TIG or gas/braze?


Hi John!
Thanks for the nice comment.
I fillet brazed(although some call it filet brazed). I did not use a jig. I did it almost as I had described to you in an PM a while ago: Put in a solid axle to hold the rear triangle. carefully cut the chainstay section out (~2") but left the chainstay brace intact; butted up against the BB (with a come along tied to a solid front axle in the forks). Lots of eyeballing and filling (and maybe a little hammering and a little heat wrench on the seat stays).

Scott, John,
Now that I am semi-retired, I am planning on places to go. And two stops will most definitely be Southern California and Washington state. (It may not be until next year and it may take longer than that for an old codger like myself to get in shape.)

Scott, 
Now that you mentioned the Ibis Trials Comp, (Ibis Mountain Trials is it's 26/24 big brother), I am now thinking of slapping on a 24" front wheel and a 20" rear. That would lower the bike 2" and set the BB almost exactly what a Trials Comp is/was.

Josh,
THanks for the ride. It was nice to get back out and actually ride with someone who doesn't want to go like a train wreck.

Bob


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey John, A dual 26 inch wheeled edge, That would be cool, I always liked the 24 inch back wheel because on the coming down side of a log the back of the bike was less likely to come over on top of you then a 26 inch wheel would, being two inches smaller. Hey Bob, I live about 90 miles north of sacramento and would be honored to go on a nice SLOW log hopping bike ride with you and I can even supply a bike for you to ride (the advantage of owning 2 edges) and besides who needs to be in shape to go for a SLOW log hopping bike ride anyways? I don't, Besides as I mentioned before I suffer from TOLS, Tired old legs sydrome anyways, plus with the gearing on both my bikes we aren't going anywhere fast, Now as for a 24/20 edge that would be a cool little bike,Very cool. So what about going back to a dual 24 inch wheeled edge, It would give you a little more top tube clearance, you'd lose less ground clearance then with a 20 inch rear wheel and you wouldn't have to rebraze rear brake mounts, Do you still have the fork and front wheel you used from before? With the rear end bobbed like it is now that might work real nice. I think it looks pretty trick the way it is now but doing a 24/20 conversion would for sure give you more top tube clearance which is what you want.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Bob, Just thought of something else to consider if you go 24/20 coversion, Your rear derailleur is really going to be hanging down there in back with that small a back wheel.


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

abaris said:


> Josh,
> THanks for the ride. It was nice to get back out and actually ride with someone who doesn't want to go like a train wreck.
> Bob


Thank you Bob, it was nice to meet up with some locals we should do it again when you are in town. I think I will stick with the father/ son tandem rides so I can keep up since I have always been slower.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

One of my experimental bikes, built for Dex Henschel in Albert Lea, MN, was a 24/24. I had no real reason to build it, but I hadn't built one, so I did, you see? Plus, it was yellow. Dex's son Mark (near LaCrosse) has it now. I don't think I have any pics of this bike. IT seemed to work pretty well, as I laid out the geometry specifically for the 24s. ONe thing I noticed- when you are riding hard on good traction surfaces, like lava rock, the smaller the wheel, the less the flex, and you can actually feel it. Compared to 20s, 26s feel like they are made of rubber! Yes, 29s would roll over 2" steps easier, but, whoa, I bet they feel gummy on rock. 

19s or 20s are best for hopping, 26s are great for rolling, but 24s are a good "rolling trials" compromise. Especially if the frame is yellow.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Anybody got any ideas on somewhere that you could get some shorter square taper,five bolt crankarms, say 165mm or 155mm that would fit and work on a EDGE?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

You ain't goin' hopper on us, now, are you Scott?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

NO SIR!! Rolling Technical trail riding.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Bless you, my son. That was the correct answer. You may continue your existence.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thank you my father, I vow my allegiance only to you, all wise and knowing one... May all your trails be technical and your sections be clean...


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Thank you my father, I vow my allegiance only to you, all wise and knowing one... May all your trails be technical and your sections be clean...


This is getting. Just a little strange.....

But if I stick the 24" front fork and wheel in I'd lose 2" in height at the front...I think that translates to an even steeper head angle ~3 degrees. Right now it is nearly 74.5 degrees (what day ya think John?)...but as you point out it's only a 3/4" @ the BB.

A 24/20 would leave the head angle the same as both the front and rear would drop 2". I just don't want to be too unstable.......

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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi Bob, But aren't we all just a little bit unstable? If you decide to go 24/20 I have a shimano deore xt short cage rear derailleur that would help to make up for the smaller rear wheel.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Your BB should be too low with a 20, I'd think. It just depends what you think you are doing with the bike, the way you are riding it. I wouldn't go steeper than 74.5 degrees, again depending on what you want to ride. Unless you are experimenting, which I can hardly say anything negative about!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Bob, I know your trying to get more standover clearance but I think your bike looks so trick just the way it is.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So John, You said before you got two edges from raleigh for coming up with the design, and you mentioned you still had one, might you post some pictures of it for your followers to gaze upon?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Yes, I will. It is shockingly close to stock, because it was never my "rider". I always had a "modern" xc bike and a strange bike, depending on the ride.SO the Edge was pretty much a museum bike...


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks John, So exactly how many bikes do you currently own, So you said in an earlier thread that you own a cannondale Beast of the East? Sweet Bike, Have you seen Bob's Beast? Theirs pictures of it on the forum, Thanks Again.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

*my bikes*

Hey Guys, My one son the computer whiz came over for dinner tonite and I talked him into taking a couple of pictures of my babies and posting them for me.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Nice! You still happy with the single speed? Looks serious!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

There both serious all right, Seriously slow, But yes I love singlespeed, True you get nowhere fast but I'm just not in that much of a hurry to get anywhere these days, besides in theory you don't get mangled as bad going slow when you spill, Yeah right, I'm seriously thinking about getting some knee/shinguards, got a certain brand you'd recommend, Thanks for the compliments on my bikes, Coming from you that means alot.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey John, So what ever became of your raven trials bike


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Hey Guys, My one son the computer whiz came over for dinner tonite and I talked him into taking a couple of pictures of my babies and posting them for me.


They're almost identical now Scott.
Looks like you've been doing a little work.

You know hydraulic rim brakes will mount on rollercam mounts.

Happy labor day everyone!

Bob


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I had a Raven that I rode for a season, but I gave it back to Dave Gnehm when Angel Rodriguez asked me to design R&E Montagna bikes for him. So I only had one for a little while. They were very good bikes- Dave did a good job with them.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*Raven & Edge*

posted before but since I started the thread I'm taking liberty to repost. Don't think I'll ever let go of the Raven but Edges are pretty common up here in the NorthWest, I've got two and have flipped two more..


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Nice to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day, I did not know that about hydraulic rim brakes, Now that's the kind of brakes I'd really like to have, Alas no money for that, So what's up with your bike? Once again good to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day John.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

That raven is a classic, I would never get rid of that either, Saw that image on mombat's site before thanks for the update, Happy labor day


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Nice to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day, I did not know that about hydraulic rim brakes, Now that's the kind of brakes I'd really like to have, Alas no money for that, So what's up with your bike? Once again good to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day John.


Not much going on...I'm in a real flat part of the country right now and the Edge is home in the basement. Last time out was with Josh. It climbed well. No spinning. However, I suffer from tired old out of shape body....my heart monitor was hitting 160 riding with Josh at Victor mountain bike park...I didn't try any jumps or steep descents...I am going back to a singlespeed though. I've typically run 30 gear inches...but being that I'm older and slower, it would seem a 24" might be better until I get back in shape.....


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Bob, This is not bike related,I Hope You and your family are okay and have not been affected by the weather,Tell me all is well..


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey John, I went to yahoo, typed in 26 bmx, clicked on images and in the third row down,far left picture, under the wording page 2, was this 26/20 bmx bike, made me think of you and the rhino bike you said you built, That's really trick looking in an odd sort of way,Put a little chainring on it, Put some knobby tires on it,change the bar and stem and tell me that wouldn't be fun to go play on. Make sure to space between 26 and bmx or it won't show it.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Speaking of small wheels, have any of you done any riding on a 29er? I can't imagine they would be very good on our ultra-steep stuff...


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Not I,Everything newer way to expensive, Besides I really like my edges,But I've become interested in the 26/20 setup from the good old days, So who besides you and ibis used to make 26/20 bikes and whatever happened to the rhino, I like the idea of the small back wheel for coming down off of logs, Less likely to flip over on you, The natural wood furniture place down the street from my house has this one log that I had a mishap coming down off of the last time I went their and I mangled my left knee on the asphalt, (by the way none of you guys got back to me on what brand of knee/shinguards you thought were best) Anyways now everytime I go back down their I'm real leary of that log and it's not even as big as some I've gone over before,Just got to go and kick it's ass a few times,Any of you know of any site that has pictures of any 26/20 trials bikes or any pictures of any old vintage trials bikes or photo's of old trials events?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Maybe you should try jumping/hopping off...... 
When I use to ride over picnic tables I quickly learned to jump off and land on the rear wheel just slightly before the front wheel. If I didn't it was a guaranteed face plant!

Stay safe my friend. 
and drink wisely....


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Speaking of small wheels, have any of you done any riding on a 29er? I can't imagine they would be very good on our ultra-steep stuff...


No I have not embraced the 29er marketing foofoo.
However, guaranteed higher bottom bracket than typical 26" mtb. But wait, look at those looonnnggg chainstays and slack headangles..... and the standover height just scares me....


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

My buffalo bike was eventually bought by one Bill Hoffer, who now lives in Eastern Washington and I hope is not burning up. I only built one that way, primarily so I could have a rolling bike with a really "grippy in the wet" 20" trials tire. The point about coming off of logs is a good one- you have much more crotch clearance when you get way back. I don't know of any pictures... I used to wear Trace soccer pads, well before there were "freeride" pads. They were mainly cloth but had a footstrap and a plastic layer on the outside and about a half inch of padding. I loved them. Worried less about knee pads.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

I put a 20" x 2.0" Maxxis Creepy Crawler, a real sticky tire on back.

It just looks strange....


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Going steep uphill it wants to "wheelie" very easily; almost too easily.
I haven't tried real steep downies yet....
That requires the removal of the seat (on this old Edge, the seat won't drop all the way down) to work well as you indicated.
It would be delightful if I could just find a 19" x 2.5" trials wheel and tire (assembled). I certainly have the chainstay space for it.

Scott, you indicated that Ibis made a 26"x20"???

Sincerely, 
Buffalo BOB


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So Bob, You outdid yourself this time, Strange looking yes but I have to say after sitting here looking at it for a few minutes it grows on you, I Like It!! I bet with the creepy crawler it gets great traction, Man I'd love to ride that, See how it feels, So you going to go into the custom bike business I might have to send you one of mine? So the Big Cheese must have made that alot easier. The ibis was an experimental bike back when they were trying different wheel sizes, 20/20, 26/24, 26/20, 24/20, Don't know if the 26/20 ever made it to the production stage or not, Hey how about a 29/24 Technical trail rolling trials bike, LETS BRING BACK THE STRANGE BIKES, Nice Job Bob Looks Cool...


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey John,Thanks for the info. So what do you think of buffalo Bobs latest creation? You and Bob should get into the custom bike business together and bring back the multisize wheeled Strange Bikes, So Bob How do you like your bike the way you have it set up now? Lots of top tube clearance now I bet.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Why not a 29/24? It just depends on what you really trying to ride. I think a 29 will always be flexible and clumsy in tight, tech stuff. I think a 26/24 might be about optimum, IF you could get good tires!!!

Bob, there is a secret to stand up climbing. I'll tell/show you for one mocha.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Bob, there is a secret to stand up climbing. I'll tell/show you for one mocha.


Ok. Shoot away....

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey John, I agree with you on the 26/24 being about the best setup there is, the mountain trials bike was such a cool concept,a mountain bike that excels at tight technical rolling trials type terrain.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

OK, here goes.  There will be a quiz, so pay attention.

When climbing seated, you try to keep some weight on the front tire by leaning forward, and then sliding forward on the seat, so that the front wheel doesn't come up during pedal powerstrokes. Eventually, as the hill gets steeper, you run out of seat. Not every local has hills like this; some places don't have the soil strength to let you climb extremely steep hills (gravel, for instance, or sand). 

Key is, a tire can transmit tractive forces as a function of how hard it is being pressed into the dirt. The more you push down, the harder a tractive force you can transmit into the ground. When you stand up, the natural tendency is for your naughty bits to go forward, and to stand nearly straight up. When you do this, you unload the rear tire. If you move back for more grip, you unload the front tire. Result? No makee. Crashee. Say hill is impossible, go home. 

Trick: Keep your head low, over the stem, butt back, arms bent, elbows out. Find a fore/aft location where there is statically enough weight on the front tire so you don't wheelie. Now, on every downstroke of a pedal, pull the handlebars back toward your navel! This dynamically jams the bike down on the rear tire contact patch and gives you great traction for an instant. If you time it right, and get the right body position, you can climb amazing slopes, slopes that you would be nervous about ridiing down. Ask Josh! A freind of mine crashed twice last week riding down a slope that a couple of us, using this technique, had just ridden up! Warning- this puts a strain on your upper back and neck (dont' ask me how I know). 

You can also move back a little, and intentionally lift the front wheel during power pulses to place it laterally so you don't have to steer. As everybody should know, steering on a steep climb leads to ignominy and death, or at least dirt.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*someone said Ibis?*

posted before...enjoy :thumbsup:

pic 1, Ibis Trials Comp 20x20

pic 2, Ibis, Kebo, R&E Montana, Edge, Raven

John, any idea how many R&E Montanas were built?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

So John, that's sort of like climbing out of the saddle while in the drops on a road bike isn't it? 
And its gotta keep chiropractors in business....

Not to offend Josh, but I actually haven't watched him ride...nor will I....just does not have the right body parts to keep my attention...

Sent from my DROID4 from another but equivalent time-space point on a differential manifold....


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

So John,
Have the following thoughts about your "trick" climbing technique and rear wheel size and climbing in general:

Traction is driven fundamentally by two things: coefficient of friction between the two surface that are in contact, and the force that is normal to the two surfaces that are in contact.

The largest force that can be applied on a bicycle is the weight of the rider and bike. The maximum force is when you are in a wheelie, i.e., all weight is on the rear tire. This of coarse is difficult for most people to control. This force is the same whether you are sitting on a seat or standing.

As the hill you are trying to climb gets steeper, the normal force is reduced. In the limiting case, you cannot climb vertical surfaces (although Mr. McAskill seems to be able to roll up them quite well or unless you are taking LSD). This is because the force normal between the surfaces is zero.

To move forward (uphill) you have to pedal. The amount of force applied to the surface to move you forward is the tangential force applied through the rear tire at the area of contact between the tire surface and the hill surface. This is proportional to the force of your body weight. 

The Energy expending going up the hill a fixed distance is merely equal to sum of the riders body weight plus the bicycles weight times the fixed distance that the two move up the hill. 

Your no seat technique seems to allow you to adjust the force (body weight and bike weight) applied to the rear tire to maximize the normal force while also maximizing the tangential force applied at the rear wheel through the gears and crank from the riders legs transferring at most his body weight.

When the tangential force at the rear tire contact patch exceeds the normal force at the contact patch times the coefficient of friction..."Result? No makee. Crashee. Say hill is impossible, go home. "

So coefficient of friction:
Which will climb better a 20", 24", 26" or a 29"?
It has been proven by many that the contact patch AREA is independent of the wheel diameter and is simply related to the force being applied and the pressure of the tire.
What does change is the length and width of the contact area with wheel size so that the contact patch area stays constant. 

On loose surfaces, the tire tread design and the soil "strength" if you will, influence the coefficient of friction. Lower tire pressure increases the contact patch area and combined with the tread design, allow it to "bite" or pinch/compress the soil more.

The only thing that a smaller wheel in the rear will help climbing better is shortening the chain stays to put more weight on the rear wheel without sacrificing front wheel control. I bet if you could put the cranks at the rear axle, you'd do it. 

So is the Edge design any better than say a 29er for climbing...certainly it is!
Why: weight distribution and control of that distribution for balancing the normal force and the tangential force at the contact patch area.

Are StrangeBikes with ultra-short chainstays any better than an Edge...damn straight they are!!!!

Next we should discuss rolling off large logs and determine if 29" wheels have any advantage there...

Sent from my DROID4 through a worm hole...I'm actually in Pennsylvania at the same time I'm in Washington...or New York...


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Yes we should have discussings on rolling off large logs or dicussions on just riding over them in general, and by the way we are having to cut down a tree in our backyard and I've taken advantage of it by taking sections of large branches and putting them in my driveway so that I have a nice little four log trials section, A little larger would be better but it's quite fun none the less, Oh and by the way after I played on those I went down to the before mentioned log I mangled my knee on and cleaned it several times, Had a very fun day...


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Abaris, that's great except for one issue- you can get more than your total bike/body weight into the rear tire contact patch using dynamics. F = MA. 

This technique allows you to climb very steep stuff on normal chainstay bikes. It isn't "trick" - it is just physics, and out here, you either learn it or you walk up the steeper climbs...


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

So explain to us stupid people what M and A are.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

No stupid people here, just trials riders!  

If you want to jump into the air, you push hard against the ground (F) to accelerate (A) your M (mass) so that you can leave the ground. You push harder than your weight when you jump, and you exert a force on the ground greater than your weight when you land. The difference is ... dynamics (not the same as Dianetics). When you pull back on your bars, the bike tries to cock underneath you and rear up. It can't rear up easily because your mass is in the way, so it pushes up on you and down on the earth through the rear tire. Smoosh. For an instant, you can have 2x the normal force pushing the tire into the dirt, and thus, for that instant, you can transmit 2x the tractive force to accelerate or climb. You have to time that instant to coincide with the chain tension created by the pedal downstroke. And no, it doesn't hurt your back, but it makes it tired.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

So you're hopping.....

So if john weighs 190 lbs. And he can jump say 360mm, what was the initial acceleration?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

No, I'm cocking or rocking. Rear wheel never gets off the ground; front can. Enough with the equations, already- try it, it works. 

PS- That Ibis is beautiful! Scot Nicoll came up and rode one of my trials events in the early 80s, and I could never afford one of his lovely bikes. Sad. I think they were the best.


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

WOW! That was a lot of technical talk causing a deer in the head lights effect. Being a simple guy I stick with K.I.S.S. generally chanting to myself 

"This is my rifle, this is my gun. This one's for shooting, this ones for fun." All while grabbing myself inappropriately.

Bob, don't worry it takes a lot more then that to offend me.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

John,
I certainly never said I wouldn't try it. I'm sure I used similar techniques in my younger years. (Parenthetically 
, or perhaps heretically, unless the said person and bike leave the ground, the amount of force applied is F=M x g where g is the acceleration due to gravity).

So Josh, I Guess you really are a Marine. But I'm not interested in your rifle and especially not your fun gun...

I would like to see the StrangeBike12 and see the bike climb up the steeper parts of Dryer (so long as you don't touch your gun). 


Sent from my DROID4 using )


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

Gunny Hartman is a MOTIVATOR! 

More Edge please.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

That seat post looks dangerous! Bob are you going for extra traction utilizing your pedals? haha.. Next question, is The Edge going to be ready for Dryer tomorrow morning?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So Bob, May I ask why you decided to go 20/20? Isn't that more suited to hopping style then rolling style? Where do you keep coming up with all these parts? Your garage must be like a candy store.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Josh,
No. And yes, although only single speed. In any event, the trusty Cannondale is always ready to go.

Scott, 
What your actually witnessing is the twilight zone....actually the parts come from two or three other bikes that are continually canabalized...

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Definitely the strangest bike I have ever ridden. 

Sent from my DROID4 at Victor mtb park.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

That is delightfully strange! Congratulations! Do you get puzzled looks?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> That is delightfully strange! Congratulations! Do you get puzzled looks?


Thanks John.
I would rather think of it as delightfully different as it has a seat. No seat->Strange. Small wheels/larger frame ->Different.

Got some puzzled looks but really I looked puzzled riding it. IT REALLY IS NOT A DOWNHILL BIKE. And its not really a mod class trials bike. It rides rough....oh those little wheels are STIFF.

I just need to invest in some wheels.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Gyroscopic forces from big wheels really do have a stabilizing effect, don't they? You also have to keep your weight back and the power on over little trippy obstacles, because the small wheels want to come to an abrupt halt when bigger wheels would roll right over. But in rock gardens, they are very handy! And on wet rock, if you have much of it, I bet those sticky tires feel REAL good. 

What the heck fork is that?!?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Gyroscopic forces from big wheels really do have a stabilizing effect, don't they? You also have to keep your weight back and the power on over little trippy obstacles, because the small wheels want to come to an abrupt halt when bigger wheels would roll right over. But in rock gardens, they are very handy! And on wet rock, if you have much of it, I bet those sticky tires feel REAL good.
> 
> What the heck fork is that?!?


Actually, is was the "twitchyness" of the front end when turning going downhill.
I'm not sure the difference in gyroscopic forces actually make much difference as slow as I go, but perhaps they do. Maybe so and I was able to turn the wheel easier.

The fork is from CarbonCycles.CC :: Components :: Gallery called an eXotic Rigid Al for a 700c / 29er wheels and 465mm axle to crown distance to replace 100mm travel suspension forks (if you can imagine doing that). This picks up the front end a bit. The fork offset is 42mm and on the modified edge frame the head angle measured around 73 degrees. Maybe this makes for a small trail distance and maybe twitchy handling.

(It also happen that a 700c fork with vbrake mounts has the mounts in the right place for a V-brake adapter to work with 20" wheels.)

It is just different. 
There was no problem just lofting the front end over stuff; it is really light in the front end.
The fork is light and the 20" wheel is light compared to the 26 and the difference makes this a wheelie machine.
In fact, with a seat you can act like a jack-in-the-box and easily loft the front end while seated and then spring up off the seat while pulling the handle bars up and the rear wheel just follows.
Probably if the obstacles where greater than 10" then the rear might want to come to an abrupt halt after you have lofted the front wheel over, which means you interact in a painful way with the handlebar stem. But really, a 24" wheel would "stall" just about as fast. A 26" might keep going but it too would let you know it was there.

The tires work on roots and rocks wet or dry. Softer and stickyer. but I haven;t really ridden it that much.

You should get your little 20" Strangebike back in to rolling order. Then we could meet up at Moab Slickrock and have a blast!!!


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## Treebeard (Sep 30, 2012)

Hope it is ok to post here as this represents one of Mr. Olson's designs.


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## Treebeard (Sep 30, 2012)

Found this old Cannondale SM 500 in my neighbors field


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## Treebeard (Sep 30, 2012)

I am fairly certain it is a 1984, 1st generation SM 500 at it had the old side pull BMX brake and the sleaved seatpost with the SR La Prade BMX post.


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## Treebeard (Sep 30, 2012)

OK, here come the photos, had to get my post count to 10 before I could add pics


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## Treebeard (Sep 30, 2012)

Here it is as found in the field, 24" rear wheel and 13" bottom bracket = SWEETNESS



Here is the frame torn down:



I sprayed the frame with aircraft paint stripper from NAPA, hated to waste the old paint but it was shot:



And here is the stripped frame:


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

Awesome! Another resurrection. You should start a build or rebuild thread for it.


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## Treebeard (Sep 30, 2012)

Here's the old girl built back up. Kind of a funky fork but 1" steerer tube forks are getting awfully hard to find. Painted the frame with spray on bed liner from NAPA. Have had pretty good luck with this stuff and it's easy to touch up. Always wanted one of these old 24-26 Cdales and this is now my primary elk hunting rig.



Wanted to get away from the BMX style side pull rear brake and tracked down a first generation Odysee Pitbull BMX Rollercam. Works great considering there are no brake studs in the seat or chain stays:


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## Treebeard (Sep 30, 2012)

Rear wheel is still the original, with a specialized hub and Sun - Cannondale rim. Have an old WTB Geaseguard that I want to get reset from 135 to 130mm spacing and have a new rear wheel built up. Still remember my first book on mountain biking back in mid to late 80's that had several photos of Mr. Olsen riding his Raven over logs and drops basically right through the forest. Always remember back to those pictures and the idea of a "deep woods" bike for the Northwest.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

That brings back memories! Nice job! Good save. Cannondale gave me two of these for working on the design (I didn't really design it- I sent them drawings and suggestions, but they did a lot of their own stuff), but I guess I sold/traded them away in the 80s. Wish I had one now!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Very Nice.
That looks like an eXotic Fork!!

I always wanted one of those. 
and an Edge. 
and an Ibis Mt. Trials.
and an Ibis Trials Pro (or Comp)
.
.
.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Guys, So I see we have a new member, Welcome aboard treebeard,You'll find us to be a freindly bunch, Nice Cannondale, You did a great job on the rebuild, Always wanted a 26/24 cannondale, So Bob how do you like your latest edge creation? I wish maxxis made creepy crawlers in 26 inch and 24 inch sizes, I really like the looks of that tread pattern.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Guys, Can anybody tell me which is the better quality freewheel, a 6 speed shimano MF-TZ20 or a 6 speed shimano HG22? Thanks Scott


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> So Bob how do you like your latest edge creation? I wish maxxis made creepy crawlers in 26 inch and 24 inch sizes, I really like the looks of that tread pattern.


20" tires are extremely sensitive to tire pressure...
The 20/20 setup, although temporary, handled quite well and seemed lighter. I made a change to the frontend and is now a 24". That's right, a 24/20 that is very similar to an ibis trials comp. BB height roughly 12" and a ~73 degree head angle. However, I notice that my pedals where hitting stuff on the trail, so maybe not an ideal trail bike. But I've ordered an axle for my edge 24" rear wheel so soon it'll be back to normal 26/24 edge.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So Bob, Would you please post a couple pictures of it while it's still a 24/20? I'd like to see how it looks before you change it again, How about some shorter crank arms, say maybe 155mm's.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Scott,
Are you a closet HOPPER?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Buffalo Bob,You said that with the 24/20 setup your pedals were hitting stuff on the trails so maybe shorter crankarms would help, I don't hop in the closet to likely to hit my head, So anybody know which of those frewheels I asked about is better?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Scott, I'm sorry but I don't remember which freewheels used to last more than a week... I know we had found some that lived maybe 6 months, or at least a summer, and some that broke RIGHT NOW. But then, in 2004 I broke a box of 12 Shimano freehub bodies in 3 months, so it's not like they've progressed!  If you are strong and really riding the steeps, try to find a pre-disc Hugi or Chris King. And, oh, paint Suntour on it.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks John, Got an old about 1988 diamondback apex off of craigslist that I want to fix up and give to one of my son's for christmas or his birthday in feburary depending on how long it takes me to go through it and I want to replace the freewheel, It's an 18 speed and I wanted to replace it with whichever was a better quality freewheel, These two are still easily available brand new. Thanks John.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Hey Buffalo Bob,You said that with the 24/20 setup your pedals were hitting stuff on the trails so maybe shorter crankarms would help,


Where in the world would I get those?


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## David9999999 (Sep 14, 2008)

I've been looking for one of these bikes for a while. Anyone know where I could find a good original Edge for sale?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Hi, David,

You might try a "wanted to buy" ad in MTBR's classified section! That or just Uncle Google. They aren't impossible to find, but they aren't common either. Somebody on this group may have one for sale, too.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey David9999999,I bought one from da/'Hoov back when he was stan4bikes on this forum quite some time back, So da/'Hoov can you help david out? He seems to have excellent taste in bikes?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Oh buy the way, Happy Halloween Everybody!!!


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

scott murray said:


> Hey David9999999,I bought one from da/'Hoov back when he was stan4bikes on this forum quite some time back, So da/'Hoov can you help david out? He seems to have excellent taste in bikes?


now I'm gonna get in trouble again ;-)...nobody on this forum has EVER bought anything from me! No one has EVER contacted me about selling anything I've posted! ohhh..except for maybe a few members including a couple Illuminati and maybe a Moderator or two


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Sorry if I did anything wrong or got anyone in trouble, as this was not my intention.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

scott murray said:


> Sorry if I did anything wrong or got anyone in trouble, as this was not my intention.


That's okay, Scott. It's fine. da'Hoov just has an attitude problem. Don't mind him.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

scott murray said:


> Sorry if I did anything wrong or got anyone in trouble, as this was not my intention.


no problem Scott..all in fun 



girlonbike said:


> That's okay, Scott. It's fine. da'Hoov just has an attitude problem. Don't mind him.
> 
> 
> > Thanx for the kind words Madamn Moderator


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So Bob, How are you and your family holding up against the storms back there? Everybody okay? Hey David,keep an eye out on craigslist I've seen them there every once in a while, Good Luck, I'll keep an eye out for you.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> so bob, how are you and your family holding up against the storms back there? Everybody okay?


aok.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So John, Did you ever use biopace chainrings back in the days and if so what did you think of them? I used to have them on an old ross Mt. Hood, and this diamondback I got had them on it so I stole the 28 tooth granny ring and put it on one of my Edges and I am looking around for a 26 tooth for the other, so far I have found two new ones on ebay but one is 90.00 and the other is 60.00 bucks, talk about being greedy, anyways I always liked them, still do so what do you think? Bob I'm glad to here you and your family are okay, anything new going on with you or just surviving the storms?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Scott, I did get a lot of time on biopace rings back in the day, and I really disliked them. The physics is that power is the integral of force times velocity, integrated around the whole stroke. The BP rings speed your legs up on the powerful downstroke, and slow them up at TDC and BDC when you aren't making any power anyway. They really worked on long aerobic pulls, BUT... they stalled you out on the top or bottom when you were trying to climb or clean a difficult section. In fact, for that use, they needed to be 90 degrees the other way, so that you got through the dead band quicker, not slower. I just rode some the other day on a bike I was repairing, and UGH. I think they reflected how most folks ride, but they were really bad for agressive offroad riders who climb challenging stuff. Sorry! Just my opinion, but I'd put 'em on a cruising bike and not on a trials-ish bike.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Oh well, I guess it's back to the roundies for me, Besides roundies will give me more gearing choices, thanks for the physics lesson, I guess this means I owe you another coffee.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So John, There is a tab on the chainring that when you mount it the tab is supposed to be behind the crankarm what if I just mounted it 90 degrees off from that would it work or just take it off?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't remember if you can just rotate them or not. Seems like I remember some problem with that, but you could try it. Maybe it was the 5 bolts back then- you couldn't get the oval in the right orientation (very low at top and bottom of stroke). My buddy may be willing to swap his good condition ones for some good round rings... I could ask him.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

You can, because when I first mounted it I had the mounting tab 90 degrees off, I was on the net on sheldon browns site and it mentioned the tab and where it's supposed to be when mounted and I had it off by 90 degrees, (how do you like that) My question is if I do that would it work like you were saying get you through the dead spots quicker and improve you through the power points or just take it off, When I had it mounted wrong and I first rode around on it it felt like it was slipping like when you first put on a freewheel and it tightens as you pedal around, Does that make any sense?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

My mistake when I mounted it the first time it was 180 degrees off not 90 degrees, I was just out looking at my bike and realized it, so mounted correctly when the cranks are horizontal the chainring is narrow and when the crank arms are vertical the chainring is wide and for it to work the way you say it should it should be just the opposite, correct? All this thinking is giving my a headache I think I'll just put my round one back on, Sorry for wasting your time...


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Scott, think of it like gear ratio- for a given speed along the ground, if you are in a lower gear, your feet are moving faster. So if the chainring is small at the top, you are in a lower gear ratio at that point. So to avoid being stalled at TDC, you want the 'ring to be smaller when the cranks are up and down. 

I don't think I ever tried this (i just dumped them and put round rings on), but I'm sure it would work, and it might even be better than round.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

How do you rotate the rings 90 degrees on a 5 bolt crank? I guess you'd be close at 72 degrees by rotating the ring by 1 bolt hole.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey John, You explained that in a really easy to understand way, makes total sense to me, Now why do you suppose when they designed them they didn't realize that as obvious as it is explained the way you explained it? Guess I owe you another coffee huh, Man there starting to add up aren't they? Thanks


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Well I guess since I'm going to change back to a round ring anyways I'll try rotating the biopace to see how close I can get it just to see.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So John how about this,Copy the biopace design more or less, make it for a four bolt crank so you could mount it so the chainring is narrowest when the crank arms are vertical and name it the Olsen OvalTech Power Enhancing Chainring?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Duh, Good point , Can't rotate 90 degrees on a five bolt crank, If I'd thought about that for a second I would have realized that, Oh well, never said I was very smart, but I could get it closer to what it should be just to see if it makes a differance.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Scott, that's a great idea, but it would take me so long to make them with my hand drill and file that I['d have to charge more than a coffee for them, and I'm over caffeinated the way things are right now...  I'd encourage you to try the Biopace rings rotated as close as you can get them to "right"- anxious to hear your opinion! Try them on a very steep hill that you can just climb with normal rings... Try them both ways!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

So Bob, Whats up? How you got your bike setup these days? I went ahead and rotated the biopace two bolt holes and by golly the chainring is narrowest now when the crankarms are at 6:00 and 12:00, and thats on a five bolt crank, how do you like that?Hope you and your family didn't get pounded by the weather to bad..


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

So many questions... 
So, rotating by 2 holes...hmmm. that's 144 degrees. 
That means they may not be phased so smallest is at TDC.
Did it actually help at all or just feel weird?
I don't know much about 'rithmatic or about BioPace chainrings. I think it's like 29ers and just marketing hoopla...
Were you drinking when you rotated them? Just kidding... (but really were you?)
Maybe J.O. has an explanation.
What happens is you flip it inside out?

So, my junky bikes.
Edge - added rear canti mounts.. in for repaint and perhaps a few other little mods. It won't be Pink.

C'Dale beast- converted from singlespeed back to 7speed.

C'Dale 1991 - had single speed setup working on modified 16" chainstays (notorious axle bender) until chain broke. This bike has not been operational since 1995.

1972 Rayleigh Record - in process conversion to 27" singlespeed cyclocross bike sort of....more like a Rat-Rod project. You know, when you ride up to a 36 inch log, you jump off the bike, throw the bike over the log and then climb over the log, pick up the bike and ride on...
Back in the seventies this was the way we road off-road before those people in Marin Co., CA took credit for everything....

198? RoyceUnion MTB "water pipe" frame - in process kinda like a StrangeBike. Looking for parts...(I know enough not to ask here). Needs paint. Won't be pink.

'Nuff said - Now Ride!


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Guys, quit thinking about weird sprockets and check this out, stat:

Riding the skinnies at Dan Funke's back yard MTB playground « Mountain Bike Geezer


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Guys, quit thinking about weird sprockets and check this out, stat:
> 
> Riding the skinnies at Dan Funke's back yard MTB playground « Mountain Bike Geezer


thats some cool stuff on that site....I'll be at Rays all weekend playing on the skinnies...cant wait!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Bob, WOW, Now that's an update, I'd post a picture if I knew how but I'm telling you the biopace is narrowest now when the crank arms are vertical, Doesn't really matter cause I took the crankarms off and switched them out with deore's and put my old 30 tooth round ring back on, that's quite a collection of bikes you've got there..


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Nice backyard playground, I'd like to get me one of those, Then I could really hurt myself.. Oh Guys There is a real clean looking almost orginal raleigh edge on ebay right now and it's a real steal at ONLY 6,999.99 plus 150.00 shipping, I want some of what there smoking...


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Scott, save even more- Buy 2!!!! 

I wonder if that price was in Iranian Rials? Or Mohican Kroner?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Maybe thats in monopoly money, Nice looking edge, looks to be in real good shape, But get real with that price!!!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Maybe thats in monopoly money, Nice looking edge, looks to be in real good shape, But get real with that price!!!


Ya know, it's even got Biopace chainrings! Figure that even though not stock!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Honest to God, I only paid $49.95 for mlne! (No insult intended to Mr. Olson)


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

that kook has soo many nice bikes like that for wayyy too much $$...Pisses me off when I see somethign I really want/need and it's from them...I wont purchase anything form that store just because of what them ads do to the general pricing (all those folks that use ebay searches to determine what something is worth)...freekin scammers....bikes are for riding....and riding..and riding.


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

The funny thing about his site?

The name of his store, Budget bicycle center.

Or maybe it's only funny because that is way out of my budget.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

To bad on the price it would be just what david9999999 is looking for, then we could have another new member to our club...


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Bob, How did you get your edge for only $50.00? You lucky dog...


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

scott murray said:


> To bad on the price it would be just what david9999999 is looking for, then we could have another new member to our club...


you can add me to that list also...I got my eyes peeled for one...I saw a few some years ago but wasnt interested untill I read this thread and looked into them a bit....definately my stytle of riding, I'm not into hopping around, but I love super techhy stuff that gives a great feeling of accomplisment when cleaned....and I dig VRC bikes!


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I would like to pick up another too. My ex-wife has mine; long story.


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

Talk about hitting a guy where it counts!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Guys, quit thinking about weird sprockets and check this out, stat:


I thinks its the acid rain, man!!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Merry christmas everybody !!!


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

And happy new year with shocking pink/salmon bows on!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

so what's in a name?

Bethel, Alaska BMX John Olsen 2010 - YouTube


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I am a man of many talents and simultaneous locations. I was also the prime minister of Australia back in the day. But I STILL have trouble adjusting front derallers!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> ....... But I STILL have trouble adjusting front derallers!


I have the same problem so I just remove them!!!!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Merry christmas everybody !!!


Hey Scott, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

So Strangebike13, 
In your humble opinion, what's all the hype over real wide handlebars, i.e.,>30"?


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey Guys, I have a answer aluminilite bar on my one edge and I really like,I used to run a kona dh bar but I like the answer more, little more rise ,wider and less sweep. My question do any of you know what to use to keep your grips from slipping on your bars? something that actually works,


abaris said:


> So Strangebike13,
> In your humble opinion, what's all the hype over real wide handlebars, i.e.,>30"?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> My question do any of you know what to use to keep your grips from slipping on your bars? something that actually works,


Back in the day it was hairspray....some worked, some didn't !
Maybe snydercj7 knows best....


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

abaris said:


> Back in the day it was hairspray....some worked, some didn't !
> Maybe snydercj7 knows best....


That's what I used to use and like you said some worked some didn't, any chance you remember which ones worked? Thanks Bob


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

I never used hair spray. 
I know use lock-on grips or stay out of the rain.
3M makes some spray adhesive for automobile emblem and such. Give it a try.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

*grip slip*



abaris said:


> I never used hair spray.
> I know use lock-on grips or stay out of the rain.
> 3M makes some spray adhesive for automobile emblem and such. Give it a try.


Hey John, You out there? or any of you others know of any certain brands of hairspray that works for non slip grips? Thanks


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## bulgie (Jun 20, 2008)

scott murray said:


> Hey John, You out there? or any of you others know of any certain brands of hairspray that works for non slip grips? Thanks


AFAIK all brands of hairspray are water-soluble. (How else could you ever shampoo it out of your hair?). I never found a hairspray brand that would continue to stick in very wet conditions. I'm from the Pacific Northwest. I think hairspray for grips must be a SoCal or Arizona thing.

Use 3m FasTack, as long as you don't want to ever be able to remove it!

Any glue that needs to be installed wet (so the grips slide on) will take a long time to set up. They harden by off-gassing, which is hard to do through a rubber grip. So give it time to set up before riding, like a day.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

bulgie said:


> AFAIK all brands of hairspray are water-soluble. (How else could you ever shampoo it out of your hair?). I never found a hairspray brand that would continue to stick in very wet conditions. I'm from the Pacific Northwest. I think hairspray for grips must be a SoCal or Arizona thing.
> 
> Use 3m FasTack, as long as you don't want to ever be able to remove it!
> 
> Any glue that needs to be installed wet (so the grips slide on) will take a long time to set up. They harden by off-gassing, which is hard to do through a rubber grip. So give it time to set up before riding, like a day.


Hey Guys, I got a tube of Loctite stik"n seal outdoor adhesive,Let them set for a couple days, Perfect!! Thanks for the advice, So Bob Whats up? How you running your edge now?


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## jaxes88 (Oct 17, 2012)

mix up some dish soap in some water and put a thin layer of that on your bar ends, you don't need much.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

jaxes88 said:


> mix up some dish soap in some water and put a thin layer of that on your bar ends, you don't need much.


Hey Guys, Where'd everybody go? What happened to our once proud and mighty forum?


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## Sven Trials (Sep 15, 2005)

I'm still lurking...


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Sven Trials said:


> I'm still lurking...


Okay, So now there is another edge on ebay and they want $4,995 for it, Whats wrong with these people?Bob, John you guys still out there? Sven Trials and I are awfully lonely out here on this forum all by ourselves. Whats new with everybody?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Okay, So now there is another edge on ebay and they want $4,995 for it, Whats wrong with these people?Bob, John you guys still out there? Sven Trials and I are awfully lonely out here on this forum all by ourselves. Whats new with everybody?


What can I say....
You got the $$, buy it!


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

18 pages on an old middle of the road Raliegh, wow! 
My first mountain bike was a 1988 Raliegh Chill. Biopace, Deore group, chainstay U brake, 6 speed thumb shifters, Technium frame, white with turquoise lettering. The top tube was extremely short (I think 20" on my medium), and I had a toe clip overlap problem. Also the chainstays were very long at 17.5." It changed my life though


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Sorry, guys, I stopped getting notices of new messages in, like, February. Very wide handlebars are great for bikes with too much trail, and very shallow head angles, like downhill bikes and extreme freeride bikes. They have horrible wheel flop at low speeds on level ground (which they aren't designed for). The wide bars help combat flop and also give you leverage when you land after Going Big. I think you can get TOO wide on a technical or XC bike. You hit stuff. Your hands hurt.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

On Grips: Water is your enemy. Riding in wet vegetation causes water to wick under the grips and loosen them. Soon you need dental work. I have had the best luck with black spray paint. Why black? Most grips and many bars are black. Whatever.

The spray enamel (don't know if it matters) lubricates the grip to facilitate installation, keeps it stuck to the bar for a long time, and is not impossible to remove with air pressure if you need to change grips or get to inboard equipment like shifters or brake levers. 

That said... I use clamp-on grips. They rule.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

StrangeBike13 said:


> On Grips: Water is your enemy. Riding in wet vegetation causes water to wick under the grips and loosen them. Soon you need dental work. I have had the best luck with black spray paint. Why black? Most grips and many bars are black. Whatever.
> 
> The spray enamel (don't know if it matters) lubricates the grip to facilitate installation, keeps it stuck to the bar for a long time, and is not impossible to remove with air pressure if you need to change grips or get to inboard equipment like shifters or brake levers.
> 
> That said... I use clamp-on grips. They rule.


Hey John, Good to here from you my friend, How are you doing? What kind of riding do you do mostly these days, What kind of bikes over the years have stood out to you as being good technical trail bikes? In other words mountain trials bikes? It's really good to here from you and to have you on this forum.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

Hey fellow Edge fans. I brushed the dust off of my edge (literally) and have been taking it for a few rides lately. It was originally purchased back in 87/88 time frame new by me for my wife. It ended-up with high-rise bars and a cushy womens saddle to help coax my wife into riding it, but I think she may have ridden it 3 or 4 times since it was purchased. I have had it out a few times, but not many. After all these years I have claimed the bike back, put a trailworthy saddle on it and have started putting a few miles on it. Here is a shot of the bike before I slapped a set of SPD's on it.










This bike is actually pretty well-suited to the tight rooted and rocky single-track in Missouri. All of the bikes traits have been flooding back to me. Turns on a dime with steering precision that really lets you thread through and over rock gardens and roots. Climbs really nicely,but is a little spooky on the steep downhills and I was reminded today that even though its a heavy little chunk of a bike, it is light in the rear and reminds of the times I have been over the bars on this bike. I don't think my wife ever knew about those wrecks on "her" bike. The straight cut gears don't shift all that smoothly and it tends to make quite a bit of racket when shifting. Overall though I am impressed with how well the bike still rides and handles. Its definitely not a fast bike, but it is capable and most importantly its a fun bike to ride. I enjoy riding it the most when I am solo on my own clock since thats when the slower pace of the 24" rear wheel is less noticeable. Having said that though I was trailing a buddy of mine last week on his rigid Niner MCR and although I was losing ground I wasn't too far off the pace.

Todays ride was really a blast and thought some of you edge-heads might like to see a pic of one in the wild.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

N10S said:


> Hey fellow Edge fans. I brushed the dust off of my edge (literally) and have been taking it for a few rides lately. It was originally purchased back in 87/88 time frame new by me for my wife. It ended-up with high-rise bars and a cushy womens saddle to help coax my wife into riding it, but I think she may have ridden it 3 or 4 times since it was purchased. I have had it out a few times, but not many. After all these years I have claimed the bike back, put a trailworthy saddle on it and have started putting a few miles on it. Here is a shot of the bike before I slapped a set of SPD's on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey N10S,Good looking Edge,If you don't mind really going not fast take off the two large chainrings just run the granny chainring, take off the front derailleur and thumb shifter, shorten the chain and you'll have tons of ground clearance for riding that wicked looking terrain in your one picture, either way nice Edge.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

scott murray said:


> Hey N10S,Good looking Edge,If you don't mind really going not fast take off the two large chainrings just run the granny chainring, take off the front derailleur and thumb shifter, shorten the chain and you'll have tons of ground clearance for riding that wicked looking terrain in your one picture, either way nice Edge.


At the risk of sounding like a weight weenie, I have been thinking about how much more fun the bike would be if it shed some weight. I have an old-school forged RaceFace LP crankset equipped with a 32T Salsa ring(also have a 34T as well), a UN72 BB, and an n-gear jump-stop that are all sitting in my parts bin waiting to be used. That factory nut-style BB and crankset are boat anchors for sure and I bet changing cranks and BB and dropping the FD and shifter I would lose over a pound of weight. I typically run my bikes either 1x or SS so this would be a logical thing for me to do. A ti handlebar to replace the heavy steel riser bars would also provide a more resilient ride, and then tossing the front derailleur and shifter, the rear derailleur guard and stock tires in a box in favor of newer lighter rubber would be the last thing I would do. The cransket and BB is easy since I already have the items available.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

That's what a true edge-head would do....its an old trials bike...don't think it can do much more. Of coarse, after all of that you'll want to find some REAL brakes....etc.....


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

abaris said:


> That's what a true edge-head would do....its an old trials bike...don't think it can do much more. Of coarse, after all of that you'll want to find some REAL brakes....etc.....


Yeah brakes are a little tough with the chainstay brake equipped bike.I still have the orginal XC roller-cam brakes in a box and had replaced those in the early 90's with a Deore U-Brake with a billet aluminum Brodie brake booster.That rear brake is actually pretty effective considering the OE pads. Not sure you could get a set of Magura's down there or if you could would really want a hydro line exposed in an area like that anyway. Up front there are plenty of options.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I like the trails! They look fun.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

StrangeBike13 said:


> I like the trails! They look fun.


They are fun! Missouri has some decent singletrack trails, and if you are ever in the St.Louis area there are plenty of riding places like that. Some fast and smooth and other trails more technical, rooted and rocky.There is plenty of climbing and descending, but not like you would find out west. That particular trail where I took that pic is part of the Lost Valley trail network which is west of St.Louis. I had not ridden there for at least 6-8 month and was surprised to find two new sections of singletrack. The Edge was the perfect bike for doing some low-speed exploring. Most of the trails around here are loops of anywhere from 4 -24 miles in length and the shorter loops in particular are perfect for rigid bikes like the Edge.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

N10S said:


> They are fun! Missouri has some decent singletrack trails, and if you are ever in the St.Louis area there are plenty of riding places like that. Some fast and smooth and other trails more technical, rooted and rocky.There is plenty of climbing and descending, but not like you would find out west. That particular trail where I took that pic is part of the Lost Valley trail network which is west of St.Louis. I had not ridden there for at least 6-8 month and was surprised to find two new sections of singletrack. The Edge was the perfect bike for doing some low-speed exploring. Most of the trails around here are loops of anywhere from 4 -24 miles in length and the shorter loops in particular are perfect for rigid bikes like the Edge.


So try putting some kool stop pads on your back brake, that and the brake brace should give you a pretty decent back brake, As for the rest it depends on how fast you don't want to go.


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## AgentPhatrick (Oct 7, 2012)

veloreality said:


> that gusset alone makes it worth having. totally awesome bikes.


Say that again! Love vintage rides, especially if folks are still riding them! Keep it up Mate!


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## YakimaDeathYaks (Aug 15, 2012)

Just curious if anybody had a number stamped into the gusset on there 
'87 edges, I have a "02" stamped in the right drive side?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

YakimaDeathYaks said:


> Just curious if anybody had a number stamped into the gusset on there
> '87 edges, I have a "02" stamped in the right drive side?


Yesserybob, mine is an '87 and has the same marking/stamping on the right gusset.
Incredible! 
How about Olsen, does his have that also!?!?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I have my Edge back in my basement now. I'll go look... (time passes) Mine has "02" stamped into the right gusset. It is one of the earliest ones, because that's how they paid me- 2 bikes.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Do you still need the front canti's?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

No, thank you, Bob, I found some.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

StrangeBike13 said:


> No, thank you, Bob, I found some.


I need a rear wheel assembly for one of my edge's, Can any of you guy's help me out?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

That's going to be a tough one if you want to match rims... I"ll keep my eyes open for one though!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

StrangeBike13 said:


> That's going to be a tough one if you want to match rims... I"ll keep my eyes open for one though!


Thanks John, I've got cracks in my rim and in this day and age of cheaper to just replace then fix I thought I'd try to find another wheel, Funny because my other Edge did the same thing and I had a Sun Rhino Lite rim laced up to my stock wheel, problem solved but like I said these days it would probably cost more to have that done to this bike then to just get another wheel, this weekend I'm going to check some of the local bike shops, Thanks Again...


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Good luck, Scott!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Good luck! Now go to warp drive, Scotty!
Seriously, I have an old 24" wheel that would need an axle and bearings. The shipping would be more than just going to a LBS.
Also, some NOS 24X2.5 arrow racing tires on ebay!


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks Bob, I'm going to have a LBS get me a sun rhyno lite rim and lace it to my rear wheel, $80.00 Thanks for help though, So what's going on with your bike these day's...


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Thanks Bob, I'm going to have a LBS get me a sun rhyno lite rim and lace it to my rear wheel, $80.00 Thanks for help though, So what's going on with your bike these day's...


Good deal Scott! Support your local bike shops!!

My Edge is in for a few fixes. Since I shortened the chainstays, I had decided to paint the Edge. As it is a modfied Edge, it seems the color shouldn't be that p()$$y pink any more. Maybe RED!!

Also, I have been dreaming of the ultimate Buffalo Bike: a 29+/19, keeping in the spirit of rolling trials and extreme technical trail riding (and therefore gears) with respect to the environment and others on the trail (no shredding-All Mountain-suspension $hit).

Maybe StrangeBike13 might chime in if he thinks this might be a fun project.

I've got the Edge frame already shortened; I've got a 29er front fork with a 1" steerer;I've got a 19" wheel with a Maxxis 2.5" Creepy Crawler....All I really need is a 29+ wheel and tire and tube....

Time to call Surly....

What do you think???


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

abaris said:


> Good deal Scott! Support your local bike shops!!
> 
> My Edge is in for a few fixes. Since I shortened the chainstays, I had decided to paint the Edge. As it is a modfied Edge, it seems the color shouldn't be that p()$$y pink any more. Maybe RED!!
> 
> ...


 That sounds strange alright. Did you not like your Edge when you were running a 24 inch front wheel on it? When you first mentioned that I liked that idea, A little more top tube clearance and you'd still have the same amount of ground clearance as an ibis mountain trials... It would be nice if the Edge had been offered in two sizes, an Edge with say a two inch smaller frame size would be awesome...


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

The 24/24 configuration had a steeeeeep head angle...like 78 degrees. It was twitchy but trialsey ... A 29er front end seems to throw the head angle to the other extreme...like 64 degrees. Not ideal for going up hill. But, I was only dreaming.

In reality, the 26/20 seem to handle the best.


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

abaris said:


> The 24/24 configuration had a steeeeeep head angle...like 78 degrees. It was twitchy but trialsey ... A 29er front end seems to throw the head angle to the other extreme...like 64 degrees. Not ideal for going up hill. But, I was only dreaming.
> 
> In reality, the 26/20 seem to handle the best.


A while back I had the back wheel off from one of my Edge's and it was hanging on the wall and I saw one of my one son's 20 inch bmx back wheels and just put it on the back of my bike just to see, His axle is bigger, but leaning against the wall kept it in place and I have to admit it looked kinda cool, Strange but cool in an odd sort of way plus you could run maxxis cpeepy crawlers for a back tire except a chain tensioner would be just about dragging on the ground, looked kind of cool none the less. I wonder how a small sized frame 29/26 with just the granny chainring up front would be like...


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Bob, where on earth did you find a 29" fork with a 1" steerer?!?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

http://www.carboncycles.cc/?s=0&t=10&&q=fork_selector&


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

But really, it would slack the head angle out to ~64 degrees; and the trail would be a staggering 139mm with wheel flop at a whopping 55mm!!!!!


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

I built an adjustable bike once for the US Olympic team. It was far more rideable at a 90 degree head angle with negative trail than it was with a 60 degree head angle and lots of trail... At some point, you give up and just build a one-off frame to suit weird wheel combos.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> ... At some point, you give up and just build a one-off frame to suit weird wheel combos.


SO, if a 29/20 Bison bike was to have any utility, it would be climbing/rolling off logs/obstacles and the 20" rear just lets you put more weight back off the rear so ya don't do an instant endo into a blackberry bush where that bear is...this would have to be a situation where you can not hop like all the trials guys and gals do nowadays...maybe not enough room to do so, can't hop due to some military wound from Afghanistan, etc..... 
So your saying, that head angle modifications would be in order such as extending the top tube??


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Actually, a good hopper should be able to hop around on the 20" back wheel just fine. When I did my 26/20 Bison in the 80's, it was because you could get sticky Euro 20" trials tires, and I wanted a bike for Cap Sante in Anacortes, which has lovely big rock faces that are frequently damp and a bit slippery. That's all rubber compound, and back then only 20" trials tires had good rubber. The big wheel in front was for descending the rock faces. I don't hop, so it was good for me. My next bike had 20/20 wheels, and it was better, you just had to be awake when you got to the bottom of the rock slabs...


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Is that trail still there? Do you still ride it?

Sent from infinity...


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*Cap Sante*

It is still there, and I ain't riding ANYTHING right now (bad back), but we still ride it. It rocks, literally! Some of the best rolling trials ever.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

WOW! 
Is the back fixable?

Sent with Tapatalk from infinity...


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Well, I couldn't really afford all the copays for an MRI, so I've been trying to stretch and "physical therapy" my way out of this hole. I reckon it's probably surgery or nothing. Sigh. Isn't much you can do when your toes are wired up to 220 volts, with the switch thrown whenever you do anything fun!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Abaris, that's great except for one issue- you can get more than your total bike/body weight into the rear tire contact patch using dynamics. F = MA.
> 
> This technique allows you to climb very steep stuff on normal chainstay bikes. It isn't "trick" - it is just physics, and out here, you either learn it or you walk up the steeper climbs...


So wouldn't that be 
dF/dt=M dA/dt

which is really Change in Force (Dynamic Traction) = Mass X Jerk?



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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Josh told me how good he is at dynamic traction if you get the dirft...


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Are you calling Josh a jerk?!? No espresso for you!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

oh no Sir, Sir John. Just that he has mass and he jerks it.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

abaris said:


> oh no Sir, Sir John. Just that he has mass and he jerks it.....
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Lol

I'm left blushing


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

OK, going for my first singletrack mountain bike ride in nearly a year tonight... Heart Lake trail, Anacortes, WA, the easiest trail on Fidalgo Island (but also where I hurt my back a year ago). Wish me luck!


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## Sven Trials (Sep 15, 2005)

Good luck John!! Take it easy out there..


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

Good luck and godspeed, wish I was there as #12 is feeling the neglect.


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## blazingsaddles (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh snap!


abaris said:


> oh no Sir, Sir John. Just that he has mass and he jerks it.....
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Ride Report. Olsen solo, for humanitarian reasons. Forgot back bladder, so no water or place to carry keys and wallet and EMT-summoning telephone device. Went to Bike Spot, bought cheapest water bottle, which came with free water, bless them. Proceeded to Heart Lake Ex-State Park, changed into Superman outfit in luxurious outhouse (concrete floor- pinnacle), hid valuables in car, and buried keys in forest next to a dog bone. Proceeded up incredibly steep and strenuous trail to the north (20 foot climb right out of the lot). My recently reclaimed granny gear got lots of use. Pleasantly surprised by lungs, less so by legs, which seem to glow red at the slightest effort. Back tightened up on every climb, and had flashes of The Bad Pain on several. Note: We are talking 5 to 10 foot vertical here… Every bad pain was followed by stopping and stretching. Had brought a cassette tape player with Enya for proper stretching mood; heat was already at Bikram yoga levels, so that was good. Made it to end of this trail with only 2 yoga sessions, in less than half an hour. Proceeded to pedal around “the square”, the bowl shaped rectangle of woods north of the lake, with only a few more yogic visits. Inadvertently climbed one maybe 50’ hill. Was passed by a family with a toddler. As they walked by me, the toddler said, “Daddy! Bike is all sweaty!”. Out of the mouth of babes… By this time, I was getting plenty thirsty. Reached for brand new water bottle, which was safely back in the car. 

4 blackberry scratches, moderate dehydration, 2 back spasms, one hill walked up, numerous mosquito fly-by’s, but no bites.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Bravo Sir John!
What bike did you use?

(and what is a cassette player?......)


Sent from somewhere


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## Guest (May 3, 2014)

snydercj7 said:


> Good luck and godspeed, wish I was there as #12 is feeling the neglect.


Your such a *****!
Ride that beast!!!


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## Guest (May 3, 2014)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Ride Report. Olsen solo, ...


Glad to see you back in the WooDs, good man!!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Ride Report. Olsen solo, for humanitarian reasons. Forgot back bladder, so no water or place to carry keys and wallet and EMT-summoning telephone device. Went to Bike Spot, bought cheapest water bottle, which came with free water, bless them. Proceeded to Heart Lake Ex-State Park, changed into Superman outfit in luxurious outhouse (concrete floor- pinnacle), hid valuables in car, and buried keys in forest next to a dog bone. Proceeded up incredibly steep and strenuous trail to the north (20 foot climb right out of the lot). My recently reclaimed granny gear got lots of use. Pleasantly surprised by lungs, less so by legs, which seem to glow red at the slightest effort. Back tightened up on every climb, and had flashes of The Bad Pain on several. Note: We are talking 5 to 10 foot vertical here&#8230; Every bad pain was followed by stopping and stretching. Had brought a cassette tape player with Enya for proper stretching mood; heat was already at Bikram yoga levels, so that was good. Made it to end of this trail with only 2 yoga sessions, in less than half an hour. Proceeded to pedal around "the square", the bowl shaped rectangle of woods north of the lake, with only a few more yogic visits. Inadvertently climbed one maybe 50' hill. Was passed by a family with a toddler. As they walked by me, the toddler said, "Daddy! Bike is all sweaty!". Out of the mouth of babes&#8230; By this time, I was getting plenty thirsty. Reached for brand new water bottle, which was safely back in the car.
> 
> 4 blackberry scratches, moderate dehydration, 2 back spasms, one hill walked up, numerous mosquito fly-by's, but no bites.


So I too had a not so serious accident on my Pug (Broken chain going up steep section on down stroke single speed standing left me a gimp till I can get into chiropractor....). In the mean time, I upgraded the front end of my Edge: Exotic 465mm fork to slackened out the head angle from 74.5 degrees to about 70.5 degrees; 15.25 inch bottom bracket (that's +50mm in modern day trials frame geometry talk); Avid Elixer front disc brake with 180mm rotor; 26x2.5 tire.








So how are all the Edge fans? Scott? John?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

With all that ground clearance, think of the high water you'll be able to ride through! 

Still can't ride, Bob. Back worse than ever, due to physical therapy bending me at the "Do Not Bend Here" sign. I hear you might come out to Washington? Josh will have to take you to Whistle! You do know how to whistle, don't you?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

That sounds intimidating if not strange.

I guess a fork with slightly less length like 430 or 440 might be in order. But the 74.5 degree head angle was a bit of a handful Rolling off obstacles.

I probably won't make it out to Washington till next spring or so.

Napa valley tomorrow though!


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## HAGASAN (Apr 13, 2010)

Just got an Edge.









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Looks very original and stock! Nice!


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2014)

What are those funny things on the frame?


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

RocketJSquirrel said:


> What are those funny things on the frame?


You're going to have to be more specific, Squirrel.

Are you talking about the gussets at the head tube?


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2014)

I suppose you can call them that. Do they actually do anything?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

They are there because Raleigh Marketing thought that they would look cool and make the bike look more rugged. They actually do make the front end of the frame stronger, and harder to buckle, but they were put on for "image". The jagged rear edges of the plates are pure styling, non-functional. I didn't argue much- a major bike company was going to volume-produce a trails/technical trail bike, for heaven's sake.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

StrangeBike13 said:


> They are there because Raleigh Marketing thought that they would look cool and make the bike look more rugged. They actually do make the front end of the frame stronger, and harder to buckle, but they were put on for "image". The jagged rear edges of the plates are pure styling, non-functional. I didn't argue much- a major bike company was going to volume-produce a trails/technical trail bike, for heaven's sake.


Do you think they help with lateral stiffness of the frame?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Oh, maybe, but the frame would have had plenty of lateral stiffness without them, given that your are sitting on fat 30 PSI tires. A bit of spring in the frame doesn't hurt a mountain bike... I think the main values are A. Distinctive looks, and B. Impact protection (ramming big log/rock).


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

Oh I see.
I was thinking about Bottombracket flexing relative to the head tube when cranking on the blasted thing going up really steep $hit, like a tree trunk!

you know, pushing down hard on the right pedal while pulling up hard on the right handlebar...

I guess back then no one did FEA modeling of bike frames.


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## Golite4 (Oct 19, 2011)

Good Morning. Great Thread. I have a Raleigh "The Edge" in very good original condition for sale if anyone here is interested. Here is a link to more photos FREE eBay image gallery | JPEGbay.com. Asking $325 plus $100 shipping CONUS. Will ship internationally but buyer pays extra shipping. Thanks.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

RocketJSquirrel said:


> Oh I see.
> I was thinking about Bottombracket flexing relative to the head tube when cranking on the blasted thing going up really steep $hit, like a tree trunk!
> 
> you know, pushing down hard on the right pedal while pulling up hard on the right handlebar...
> ...


Edges were built with thick, stiff, water pipe tubing. They were on the stiff end of that era's bikes, with or without gussets. They don't flex in any way that would disturb anybody's climbing! This much I know.


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## bulgie (Jun 20, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Edges were built with thick, stiff, water pipe tubing. They were on the stiff end of that era's bikes, with or without gussets. They don't flex in any way that would disturb anybody's climbing! This much I know.


IMHO, hardly any bike ever made will "flex in any way that would disturb anybody's climbing". Long story follows, sorry, ignore if you're pressed for time!

Once (late 1980s) I rode with the crew of a small but influential MTB manufacturer as they took a bunch of standard models and prototypes out for a ride on the Slickrock trail (Moab UT) and other interesting "problems" near but off the main marked trail. The emphasis was on finding little sections that were hard enough to ride that you couldn't always get up/over/through them. Everyone switched bikes now and then to try to find out which models were best for which terrain. They had an extra-stiff prototype carbon-fiber frame, and a bunch of steel bikes with the typical oversized tubing of the day, which was also pretty stiff. (Too stiff for my taste, but middle of the road as lightweight MTBs went back then). I mostly stayed out of the bike swapping and just rode my own bike, which had lightweight small-diameter "road bike" tubing (basically a cyclocross frame, but with clearance for fat tires) -- very flexible.

The founder of the company (a member of the MTB Hall of Fame) was their best rider and generally could ride sections that no one else could, except there was this one steep sandstone turtleback that I could get up, and no one else could. The Boss asked to borrow my bike, and on mine he got up it easily. We did this several times, switching bikes back and forth, and no one could get up it unless they were on my bike with the extra-flexible frame.

My theory (and The Boss agreed) was the flex in the frame was acting as an energy "storage tank", smoothing out the power output to the rear wheel between the peak-power zone of each pedal stroke and the "dead spot" in each stroke where you can't get much power. As you get to the dead-spot, the wind-up in the frame is springing back and adding that stored energy back into your stroke.

I think that happens in a similarly beneficial way on less strenuous climbs and maybe even during hard pedaling on the level too, only it's not so obvious as it was on that one climb up that turtleback, where you either made it or you didn't.

The extra-stiff carbon fiber bike turned out to be everyone's least favorite that day, and that company ended up not releasing a production bike based on the prototype.

Due to my feeling that frame flex makes me faster, I have always avoided stiff frames, despite the fact that I am large and heavy and pretty fast-twitch oriented. Most of my wins in my undistinguished amateur racing career came in sprints, so if I can ride on flexy frames, I think most anyone can. It is my belief (though I can't see how to prove it) that there is no benefit to a stiff frame, they just slow you down.

It may well be that *using* the flex and benefiting from it requires some skill or adaptation. In other words a stiff frame may be best for a beginner who hasn't learned to make use of frame flex in his/her pedal stroke. But other than that, stiffness is a downside, that bike makers have tried to make into a selling point, because they don't know how to make flexy frames that are still strong enough to last.

"The Boss" mentioned above admitted to me he'd love to make frames like mine, but with the thin small-diameter tubing, they'd come back for warranty replacement too often, which would take away from their bottom line. So they had to make them stiffer than they would like, as an unintended consequence of making them strong enough.

I realize this is an unpopular opinion, and most people think a stiff frame is faster somehow. I just think most people are mistaken. Maybe this is arrogant of me, but I'd say real arrogance is thinking you need a stiffer frame than say Greg Lemond or Sean Kelly. Yes, I am old and mostly a roadie, so most of my reference points are road racers from a bygone era. Still, you must have heard of Lemond. You think you're stronger than him? He raced and won (Tour de France, World Championships etc.) on incredibly flexible frames. So did Kelly, and many others I could name. I know that doesn't prove anything, but the stiffness advocates haven't proved anything either. They imply stiffer is always better as if it's obvious, and never offer any evidence. (Not talking about anyone in this thread. This is not a personal attack!)

Some people talk about the comfort advantage from frame flex, but I think that's over-rated. Even flexy frames don't attenuate bumps as much as tires, padded saddles and handlebar tape do, so the extra cush from a flexy frame might be lost in the noise. But the "wind-up" and energy-storage you get from frame flex isn't easily gotten in any other parts of the bike. I think the frame needs to "give" with each stroke to best match the human motor.

-MB


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

bulgie said:


> IMHO,
> -MB


I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion. And I might add, a well written piece. Reminds me of Olsen's writing back in the day. No Offense John, but sort of not actually factual. Sort of whimsical and ....what's the word I'm looking for?????



bulgie said:


> Once (late 1980s) I rode with the crew of a small but influential MTB manufacturer ....
> -MB


Is it true you guys used to drop acid back then?

OK. Just kidding. really...

So I guess I'm puzzled by several things.

1) Isn't climbing dominated by other physical factors such as but not limited to the geometry of the bike before frame flex would ever be an effect?

2) I certainly understand the idea of pushing down on the pedal and then because of the lever arm offset of the bottom bracket there are three components to the Force vector of which one component pushes the bottom bracket side ways producing lateral flex (sideways movement) of the bottom bracket relative to the wheel axes on any bike frame,

3) I certainly understand the idea that a bike frame is a spring, and the spring constant is definitely smaller in the lateral direction versus the vertical direction or the fore-aft direction, and therefore will flex easier in that direction, AND I understand that a spring will have a natural frequency at which it will resonate,

4) but what I don't understand is how the stored energy in the frame happens to know how to transfer back from the lateral direction into a vertical direction and only in the direction of pedals going downward.
I don't get it.

If all what you say is true, then my Pug which flexes like a wet noodle and has 4" wide rear tire, will out climb my 1996 C'dale Beast of the East with it's measly little 2.25" rear tire.

But is doesn't.

It won't out climb the stinking old Pu$$ie Pink Edge with it's puny 24"x2.00" tire.

I just don't understand your thought process, or those of "the Boss", unless mind altering drugs were involved.

And You don't have to be shy, You can say who "the Boss" is. He probably would deny what you have stated anyway.

I can't help it:
And who the F(@#$& is Lemond. What mountain bike climbing race did he ever win? Comparing the Tour de France to climbing up a steep slippery mountain? WTF? What drugs do they have you one now?

(And I apologize for any offensive comments that I may have made?)


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## bulgie (Jun 20, 2008)

abaris said:


> 1) Isn't climbing dominated by other physical factors such as but not limited to the geometry of the bike before frame flex would ever be an effect?


Could you rephrase the question? It sounds like you're saying flex can't be a factor because other factors got there first. If you're just saying it's a less important factor than geometry then I might tend to agree, if you are talking largely different frame geometries, but the bikes in my anecdote were very similar, with normal NORBA-XC geo of the day.



abaris said:


> 4) but what I don't understand is how the stored energy in the frame happens to know how to transfer back from the lateral direction into a vertical direction and only in the direction of pedals going downward.
> I don't get it.


Many doubters over the years (decades really) have responded to my "flex is good" argument by saying they can't imagine a mechanism by which the stored energy is returned in a useful way. This is due to a lack of imagination. Others, smarter than you or I, have stated more or less that the energy has to be returned usefully because how could it NOT? The stored energy in a flexy frame is not insignificant, so if it were being wasted, then flexy frames would be seen to be slower, and they have not. In fact there's a lot of anecdotal evidence to the contrary. For example the fact that before Klein/Cannondale and then carpet fiber, virtually all racing bikes were more flexible than cheap gaspipe frames. Racers were clamoring for the most flexible bikes they could get (though they might not have known that the frames they were clamoring for were the flexiest).

On the old "Hardcore Bicycle Science" mailing list started by Jim Papadopoulos and then later curated by Sheldon Brown, some of our best bicycling scientists debated the subject and there was quite a lot of support for the idea that frame stored energy was returned usefully as propulsion. I might even call it a consensus. Certainly everyone agreed that energy was going somewhere (look up the First Law of Thermodynamics if you doubt that), and no one proposed any other serious candidate for where *else* it could be going. For instance, flexible frames don't heat up measurably on a climb.



abaris said:


> And who the F(@#$& is Lemond. What mountain bike climbing race did he ever win? Comparing the Tour de France to climbing up a steep slippery mountain?


Maybe you're right and pedaling is fundamentally different on and off-road. Me, I think the same laws of physics apply. BTW my experience is not limited to the road. My very first NORBA race, I entered as a Pro because in the early days of NORBA they let you just say you were a pro and issued a license on the spot. I won the race overall. That was the only Pro race I ever won, but I did race expert class for a few years and won once or twice there too. I competed in a dozen or so Trials meets organized by John Olsen (very fun, thanks again John, eternally grateful) and built myself a custom trials/trails bike even before I made myself an XC-oriented bike, so trials pre-dates racing, for me.

Not that knowing how to ride validates my crazy theories on frame flex -- good riders say the stupidest things sometimes! I just wanted to point out this isn't all armchair theorizing.

This debate will rage forever because no one has come up with an experiment that could truly answer the question. I just like to remind people that there is a debate. Too often, the "stiff is good" camp acts like the question is settled. This is mostly due to ignorance. It seems to me, from my discussions with probably hundreds of people over the last 40 years or so, that the more a bicycle scientist has thought about the question, the more likely he/she is to agree that at least some flex is good for pedaling efficiency, and stored energy is probably not wasted to any significant degree.

-MB


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Great.
Patent the freaking thing and make some freaking money.




Sent from somewhere


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

It seems like smart person like yourself can calculate the energy based frame deflection data taken with the published results of the Rinard Frame Deflection Test as described in the Sheldon Brown page

The Rinard Frame Deflection Test

I'll bet John Olsen, being an accomplished mechanical engineer, could help you out with that.

Then calculate the energy that you use when pedaling up an incline:

Pedal power | Sciencelearn Hub

Now simply compare the two and put an end to all this pointless dribble.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

There's a few threads on here where that "summit" was discussed. Tons of great photos. Chuck Ibis. Tom Ritchey. Otis Guy etc.


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## bulgie (Jun 20, 2008)

Nah, I'm not that smart, don't know how to do what you're describing. I was a bike frame builder for over 20 years, but never worked as an engineer. My gut tells me it's not that easy though, or one of the really smart guys who have asked these questions, like Damon Rinard, Jim Papadopoulos, Jobst Brandt or John Olsen would have done the calculation by now. I don't think any of those guys thought it was pointless either. I think it's super interesting, you don't? 

The debate on the old Hardcore Bicycle Science listserv ("Hardcore BS"!) was lively, with plenty of super-smart guys weighing in, but nobody proposed any easy test or calculation that could be done to settle the issue. I wish!

-MB


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## HAGASAN (Apr 13, 2010)

Here's my The Edge all restored to its original glory.. The tires are original with no dry rot. Sidewalls are in excellent shape.

















































Got it for sale if you're interested.


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## bowyer2002 (May 11, 2015)

*First Edge ride in over 20yrs!*

After 20+ yrs of wanting an Edge, I got one! 
(I think its the one that HAGASAN had available in the previous post! (the scratches seem to be identical))
Rode it to work, neither it nor I are a speed demon but, pretty comfortable for a 7 mile ride.
Now I need to get it into the woods!


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## HAGASAN (Apr 13, 2010)

Yep it was mine you bought! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## bowyer2002 (May 11, 2015)

It was very clean, easy to assemble and in great condition!
How did you find it? Was it an Edge you have had for long?


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

If anyone is interested, I came across a Raleigh Edge frame and fork today for $30 at the Reno bike project while checking out some forks. It's a 15.5" from bb to center of the tube. Rough condition though. Here is a pic. I'll be back there tomorrow after I get a few more measurements off the bike I am getting a fork for.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

singletrackmack said:


> If anyone is interested, I came across a Raleigh Edge frame and fork today for $30 at the Reno bike project while checking out some forks. It's a 15.5" from bb to center of the tube. Rough condition though. Here is a pic. I'll be back there tomorrow after I get a few more measurements off the bike I am getting a fork for.
> 
> View attachment 989999
> 
> ...


I Like..
I will PM you.

Sent from somewhere


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

abaris said:


> I Like..
> I will PM you.
> 
> Sent from somewhere


Well let me know because I will be at the Reno bike project this afternoon, but won't be back down to reno until next week.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Is that a crack in the top tube near the head tube?


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## bowyer2002 (May 11, 2015)

I acquired an Edge frameset and built a functioning bike for myself.
However, I am having some difficulty locating a vintage front derailleur (26.8mm bottom pull) to fit my chain wheels 26/36/42.
The "triple" cages I find aren't long enough for this old school gear spread.
If anyone should have a part to help me out I'd appreciate it!


10/1/15 - Found a derailleur and now my shifting is fully functional!


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

Its been a while since I have had the Edge out for a spin. Took her out to a really tight fast trail and man...what a difference when compared to the 29er I typically ride. Ok, it seemed like a bit more pedaling involved but wow was it agile. Thought you Edge guys might appreciate a couple of shots as I loaded and was ready to head out.


















Bought the Edge new for my wife back in 1987 or 88 I can't recall anymore. She rode it maybe 4-5 times since then. I never rode it because I always felt guilty for buying her a bike I liked to ride. The good news is its in great shape and even the trials tires are still in excellent shape with no dry-rotting. I slipped on my ti railed bontrager saddle and some old clipless pedals and hit the trail. After over 25 years I don't feel as bad pulling it out for a ride from time to time!


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## bowyer2002 (May 11, 2015)

I understand that that is an 88 frame since the U-brake is on the chainstays.
THAT is a super clean bike! Still rolling the yellow cable housing too, cool.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

bowyer2002 said:


> I understand that that is an 88 frame since the U-brake is on the chainstays.
> THAT is a super clean bike! Still rolling the yellow cable housing too, cool.


Yes, when I was shopping and looking at the Edge the shop had two on the floor, one with the under the chainstay rear brake and one with a seat stay brake ( not a shimano U-brake but a diacompe iirc). They were a local chain of stores but those were the last of the Edge bikes in the local St.Louis area. I wanted to get the one with the seat stay brakes but when I went back the next day to buy the bike that one was gone. You snooze you lose right?

At any rate I have had many old 88 vintage bikes with chainstay brakes and as long as you don't spend a lot of time riding in wet and muddy conditions they work fine and have a solid feel. Its a fun bike but truth be told you definitely have to do a lot more pedaling to cover ground than with a standard 26"x2 or 29er where its even more evident. For short tight trails though its still a very fun bike to ride and definitely a unique ride.


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## bowyer2002 (May 11, 2015)

You mention STL, did you get that from The Touring Cyclist?
I worked at a couple of their stores during college summers off for a couple of years.
I scored the one in post #512 and now my brother is riding it in SW MO.
They're FUN to ride but do take more effort, which can be fun but they're no commuter bike by any means!
They wheelie like no other!


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

bowyer2002 said:


> You mention STL, did you get that from The Touring Cyclist?
> I worked at a couple of their stores during college summers off for a couple of years.
> I scored the one in post #512 and now my brother is riding it in SW MO.
> They're FUN to ride but do take more effort, which can be fun but they're no commuter bike by any means!
> They wheelie like no other!


I did buy that bike at the Touring Cyclist! I bought it from the store location on St. Charles Rock Road in Bridgeton at the time. I was checking the local info and that store is the only remaining Touring Cyclist Store left open at this point. At one time I think they had 4-5 stores iirc. Small world for sure.


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## bowyer2002 (May 11, 2015)

TC had 7 stores in their hay day.
I worked at 3 over the years.
Cool find, especially that your wife lets you ride 'her' Edge!

PS if you should want to unload it, I may know a good home for it...


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## scott murray (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey John, Bob, been a while, glad to see we have some new edger's on the forum.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

scott murray said:


> Hey John, Bob, been a while, glad to see we have some new edger's on the forum.


Hi Scott, John.
I thought you had fallen off a log and hurt your back!
Hope all is well. It's snowing here so it's fat bike time.
Cheers.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Anybody still around?


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

I think the Edge is dead. Although I still ride mine (once in a great while...it has a seat )


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

That edge I posted a few posts earlier is still around hanging on the wall at that bike project.


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## Sven Trials (Sep 15, 2005)

I'm still lurking..


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

singletrackmack said:


> That edge I posted a few posts earlier is still around hanging on the wall at that bike project.


What a COOL piece of MTB history. I hope some are out on trails still.


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## bulgie (Jun 20, 2008)

Is this the place to discuss that bike that played guitar in U2?


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

singletrackmack said:


> That edge I posted a few posts earlier is still around hanging on the wall at that bike project.





DirtyHun said:


> What a COOL piece of MTB history. I hope some are out on trails still.


Stopped by the shop today and the The Edge (is that redundant?) was gone! I asked and they said it sold a few weeks ago. Looks like there could be another out on the trails soon I hope :thumbsup:


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

That is cool. I do hope you guys end up seeing it out on the trails!


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Does anyone know how many Edge's were made?


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## demondan (Jul 25, 2008)

What size seat post do these take


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

25.4 of memory serves correct. Not the most normal size. Back in the day you could buy a TCO post that was 425 or 450 mm long and that’s what I have in mine. Thomson still sells the elite in a 25.4 x 410mm long post.


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

N10S said:


> 25.4 of memory serves correct. Not the most normal size. Back in the day you could buy a TCO post that was 425 or 450 mm long and that's what I have in mine. Thomson still sells the elite in a 25.4 x 410mm long post.


I just pulled mine out and it has 26.4 stamped on it.


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## Alex Salikan (Jun 15, 2008)

Hey guys, I'm really interested in the old rolling trials scene from the 80s. I'd like to learn more about it, like the rules, what the sections were like, what techniques were used... Any chance someone here could fill me in? Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this, it's kind of Edge related...


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

Alex Salikan said:


> Hey guys, I'm really interested in the old rolling trials scene from the 80s. I'd like to learn more about it, like the rules, what the sections were like, what techniques were used... Any chance someone here could fill me in? Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this, it's kind of Edge related...


Probably best to contact StrangeBike13 
,a.k.a. John Olsen/Uncle Knobby, as he is the patriach of Rolling Trials...


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## Alex Salikan (Jun 15, 2008)

abaris said:


> Probably best to contact StrangeBike13
> ,a.k.a. John Olsen/Uncle Knobby, as he is the patriach of Rolling Trials...


Thanks abaris. I tried contacting him on here about a year ago but never got a reply. Maybe he'll get a notification from these posts though?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*Unccle Knobby emerges from the mists*



Alex Salikan said:


> Thanks abaris. I tried contacting him on here about a year ago but never got a reply. Maybe he'll get a notification from these posts though?


Hi, there! John Olsen/Uncle Knobby here. What can I do for you?


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## Alex Salikan (Jun 15, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Hi, there! John Olsen/Uncle Knobby here. What can I do for you?


Hi John! I'd love to learn more about the trials scene that evolved around you in the '80s! When did you start making Strange Bikes?
Would it be alright if I asked you a few more questions over email? My email is [email protected]


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

What´s the geo on those things? Head angle, fork rake, wheelbase, BB height?


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## Alex Salikan (Jun 15, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Hi, there! John Olsen/Uncle Knobby here. What can I do for you?


Maybe I need to know a secret handshake or something


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

abaris said:


> Keep your money.
> 
> Let John Olsen know how much we all appreciated his writing back then.


Back to the top so John can see this thread!


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

Back to the top!


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*Trials scene in the Northwest*



Alex Salikan said:


> Hi John! I'd love to learn more about the trials scene that evolved around you in the '80s! When did you start making Strange Bikes?
> Would it be alright if I asked you a few more questions over email? My email is [email protected]


Hi, Alex! Nice to hear from you. I haven't been on this site in years, so I apologize if i've missed anything. Our scene in Seattle area started when I got into mountain bikes in 1981 and 82, coming from motorcycle trials. I lived near a mountain used for motor trials, Tiger Mountain, and I started riding there, on trials loop trails and trials sections used by the trials club. I was totally into motorcycle trails for the previous decade, so when I thought about riding in the woods, it was a very trials-like riding that I pictured. Also, in the Washington woods and foothils, all of the trails were very technical, steep, roots, large logs, tight corners... 
So naturally, as I learned how to ride my Mongoose Kos Cruiser on Tiger, I started laying out sections for myself. Then a few friends got into it too, and pretty soon, we were organizing trials events. The first bike trials events up here were done with the PNTA motorcycle guys. We'd go to their events and choose the line that fit bicycles best. Soon, we had enough people that we did our own events on Tiger, getting as many as 50 riders. I'd lay the sections out, do all the marking, and run the event, as well as ride it. Then some rogue jeepers and motorcyclists tore the trails up, and off-road riding was banned on Tiger Mountain. At the same time, I was getting transferred north to the Skagit Valley, where my company has a technical center for truck testing, so in 86, I moved to what proved to be mountain bike heaven, with great technical riding in 4 directions. Also, about that time, my elbow tendons were objecting to riding over 36" logs and hopping around (not that I was ever good at hopping- I was always a roller), so I transitioned away from pure trials and more toward technical trail riding, which became my main love in life. The riding up here is very technical, and I was lucky to live here!


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*Edge geometry*

I don't remember exactly, and I'm too lazy to walk out to the shop, get the Edge down, and measure it, but I think it had maybe a 73 degree head angle. The geo was based on my Kos Cruiser with a few tweeks that I had done on frames that I had built for myself before Raleigh came along. I think the BB height was 12.5". Later, I learned from the Bridgestone MB-1 that a longer top tube was better, and my later bikes were 1" longer TT (and wheelbase), except that I was making chainstays shorter by then, too.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

*technical trail stuff*

Some shots you may enjoy...


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## Alex Salikan (Jun 15, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Hi, Alex! Nice to hear from you. I haven't been on this site in years, so I apologize if i've missed anything. Our scene in Seattle area started when I got into mountain bikes in 1981 and 82, coming from motorcycle trials. I lived near a mountain used for motor trials, Tiger Mountain, and I started riding there, on trials loop trails and trials sections used by the trials club. I was totally into motorcycle trails for the previous decade, so when I thought about riding in the woods, it was a very trials-like riding that I pictured. Also, in the Washington woods and foothils, all of the trails were very technical, steep, roots, large logs, tight corners...
> So naturally, as I learned how to ride my Mongoose Kos Cruiser on Tiger, I started laying out sections for myself. Then a few friends got into it too, and pretty soon, we were organizing trials events. The first bike trials events up here were done with the PNTA motorcycle guys. We'd go to their events and choose the line that fit bicycles best. Soon, we had enough people that we did our own events on Tiger, getting as many as 50 riders. I'd lay the sections out, do all the marking, and run the event, as well as ride it. Then some rogue jeepers and motorcyclists tore the trails up, and off-road riding was banned on Tiger Mountain. At the same time, I was getting transferred north to the Skagit Valley, where my company has a technical center for truck testing, so in 86, I moved to what proved to be mountain bike heaven, with great technical riding in 4 directions. Also, about that time, my elbow tendons were objecting to riding over 36" logs and hopping around (not that I was ever good at hopping- I was always a roller), so I transitioned away from pure trials and more toward technical trail riding, which became my main love in life. The riding up here is very technical, and I was lucky to live here!


Thank you John! And do you remember when you started making Strange Bikes, with elevated chainstays and no seat?

That's interesting that it was your elbows that stopped you from hopping, I assumed you were always a roller.

I read somewhere that it was a Vancouver rider who eventually brought hopping down to the Washington scene, do you by any chance remember who that was?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Alex Salikan said:


> Thank you John! And do you remember when you started making Strange Bikes, with elevated chainstays and no seat?
> 
> That's interesting that it was your elbows that stopped you from hopping, I assumed you were always a roller.
> 
> I read somewhere that it was a Vancouver rider who eventually brought hopping down to the Washington scene, do you by any chance remember who that was?


I started building trials bikes with no seat in about 1985. i never used them, so why carry the weight? Not all had elevated chainstays, but I was experimenting with how short you could make chainstays, wanting to learn the plusses and minusses, so that forced me to elevated stays. I WAS always a roller- my attempts at Euro style hopping were pretty pathetic. The fellow who came to our Issaquah trials events and introduced us to hopping was named Trevor. I don't remember his last name. He was (hopefully is) a very nice guy, but we lost touch.

WHere are you located?


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## Alex Salikan (Jun 15, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> I started building trials bikes with no seat in about 1985. i never used them, so why carry the weight? Not all had elevated chainstays, but I was experimenting with how short you could make chainstays, wanting to learn the plusses and minusses, so that forced me to elevated stays. I WAS always a roller- my attempts at Euro style hopping were pretty pathetic. The fellow who came to our Issaquah trials events and introduced us to hopping was named Trevor. I don't remember his last name. He was (hopefully is) a very nice guy, but we lost touch.
> 
> WHere are you located?


Were the elevated chainstays later than 1985?

I'm split between England as a student, and Vancouver where I'm from. I'll ask around and see if anyone knows of a Trevor from the mid-to-late '80s Vancouver trials scene.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Alex Salikan said:


> Were the elevated chainstays later than 1985?
> 
> I'm split between England as a student, and Vancouver where I'm from. I'll ask around and see if anyone knows of a Trevor from the mid-to-late '80s Vancouver trials scene.


Cool! I only got to ride North Van a few times (and injured myself each time! :0) but what a great scene! Where do you go to school in England? Do you do any motorcycle trials?


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## Alex Salikan (Jun 15, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> Cool! I only got to ride North Van a few times (and injured myself each time! :0) but what a great scene! Where do you go to school in England? Do you do any motorcycle trials?


Yeah, the North Shore is great! There's also still a thriving trials competition scene in Vancouver held at the local mototrials club park, or at least there was the last time I competed in 2014. The past few years I've been at UCL in London, but I have a conditional offer to do my master's at Cambridge next year (human evolution). I've never ridden moto myself, but I'd love to try it someday.

Have you ever seen Desmond Lee's history of biketrials, called Leaps and Bounds 2: The story of BikeTrial (2006)?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Alex Salikan said:


> Yeah, the North Shore is great! There's also still a thriving trials competition scene in Vancouver held at the local mototrials club park, or at least there was the last time I competed in 2014. The past few years I've been at UCL in London, but I have a conditional offer to do my master's at Cambridge next year (human evolution). I've never ridden moto myself, but I'd love to try it someday.
> 
> Have you ever seen Desmond Lee's history of biketrials, called Leaps and Bounds 2: The story of BikeTrial (2006)?


I rode both motorcycles and bikes at Ioco- a great place! I rode there with Trevor once, as I remember. He could ride circles around me with his hopping skills.

Funny- I considered doing a PhD at Cambridge in 89. A Cambridge prof did a sabbatical with us, and he wanted me to come study with him. I got to visit the campus, and I really enjoyed the place. I'd urge you to do it if you can!

I really enjoy reading about the Brit vintage moto scene. If I lived there, I'd have to pick up a Bultaco and go get dirty.

No, I never read that book. Focused on Europe?


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## Alex Salikan (Jun 15, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> I rode both motorcycles and bikes at Ioco- a great place! I rode there with Trevor once, as I remember. He could ride circles around me with his hopping skills.
> 
> Funny- I considered doing a PhD at Cambridge in 89. A Cambridge prof did a sabbatical with us, and he wanted me to come study with him. I got to visit the campus, and I really enjoyed the place. I'd urge you to do it if you can!
> 
> ...


Yeah, Ioco, that's the one! What sort of bike did Trevor ride back then?

Why did you end up choosing not to go to Cambridge?

It's a DVD, and it's been uploaded to YouTube for free. If you sign into your Facebook account I can send you the link. It's mainly focused on Europe, but I could also share some interesting North American trials history that you may or may not already be aware of as well.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Alex Salikan said:


> Yeah, Ioco, that's the one! What sort of bike did Trevor ride back then?
> 
> Why did you end up choosing not to go to Cambridge?
> 
> It's a DVD, and it's been uploaded to YouTube for free. If you sign into your Facebook account I can send you the link. It's mainly focused on Europe, but I could also share some interesting North American trials history that you may or may not already be aware of as well.


I think maybe a Monty, maybe? This would have been 86. I don't know when Montys became available. By 89, I had a good job, a house, a bike frame shop, pets, a wife, and it was just too disruptive to sell everything to move to England. Plus my company wouldn't do anything to help, so I just couldn't afford to do it. Plus I wasn't sure I was smart enough for Cambridge!


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## Alex Salikan (Jun 15, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> I think maybe a Monty, maybe? This would have been 86. I don't know when Montys became available. By 89, I had a good job, a house, a bike frame shop, pets, a wife, and it was just too disruptive to sell everything to move to England. Plus my company wouldn't do anything to help, so I just couldn't afford to do it.


I can't say when Montys became available in North America, but I know they started producing them in 1981 in red, then in '83-84 they were blue, and I think the first chrome one was '87.



StrangeBike13 said:


> Plus I wasn't sure I was smart enough for Cambridge!


Well they let me in, and I'm an idiot 

One more question: what's the story behind that 1967 Phillips you modified? Were you already riding bicycle trials back then? Did you exclusively ride moto trials in the gap between 1967 and 1981?


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Alex Salikan said:


> I can't say when Montys became available in North America, but I know they started producing them in 1981 in red, then in '83-84 they were blue, and I think the first chrome one was '87.
> 
> Well they let me in, and I'm an idiot
> 
> One more question: what's the story behind that 1967 Phillips you modified? Were you already riding bicycle trials back then? Did you exclusively ride moto trials in the gap between 1967 and 1981?


I was 12 or 13, and had been reading in Cycle World about motorcycle trials. I lived in southern Minnesota, so very little trials terrain about. My brother had left the Phillips in my dad's garage, so I started to modify it so that I could ride in the construction site of a high school football stadium a block away. First with a chainring in the back for 1:1 gearing. I should have stopped there, that was its performance pinnacle. THen I put a 20" BMX wheel in the back for the fat tire and knobbiness. This also eliminated the rear brake. Then I put the leading link front suspension on it. This eliminated the front brake, and my work was complete. It was now a total deathtrap. I still rode it in the gullies and dirt piles, but going downhill was a bit hairy.


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## StrangeBike13 (Jan 28, 2011)

BTW, the 3 speed was from the 50s, I think. I did surgery on it in the 60s.


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## Alex Salikan (Jun 15, 2008)

StrangeBike13 said:


> I was 12 or 13, and had been reading in Cycle World about motorcycle trials. I lived in southern Minnesota, so very little trials terrain about. My brother had left the Phillips in my dad's garage, so I started to modify it so that I could ride in the construction site of a high school football stadium a block away. First with a chainring in the back for 1:1 gearing. I should have stopped there, that was its performance pinnacle. THen I put a 20" BMX wheel in the back for the fat tire and knobbiness. This also eliminated the rear brake. Then I put the leading link front suspension on it. This eliminated the front brake, and my work was complete. It was now a total deathtrap. I still rode it in the gullies and dirt piles, but going downhill was a bit hairy.


Just another way you were a pioneer, now every BMXer is brakeless .

I assume you're not making frames anymore, so would it be alright with you hypothetically speaking if I were to have a Strange Bike replica made for me by a custom frame builder at some point in the future? I'd love to have one to ride, and I doubt anyone will be getting rid of their original ones (I can't blame them!).


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## orangebicycle499 (May 31, 2021)

I bought one in the late 1980's I also asked Kent Erikson to make me 30" handlebars with a 4° grip end bend. First pair broke. Second pair I think he put a second tube inside and they worked great! With the very wide bars, the bicycle handled very good. I put studded snow tire on the front for winter riding. It was a very fun snow bike. As at the time I had bike tools, I would often change the front ring. Almost daily I would ride from the mtn. Area of Steamboat Springs through the golf course area to Clark, CO / Hahns Peak and back. On Rabbit Ears, down Catamount trails. Personally I liked my Edge! I also had a Trek. Today I have a Felt hybrid Verza Speed 40


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

That's a hell of a daily ride. you must have been in great shape! So based on the user name, are you the owner of orange cycles in steamboat? Great shop! I always try to support as I drive through steamboat often.


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## orangebicycle499 (May 31, 2021)

smilinsteve said:


> That's a hell of a daily ride. you must have been in great shape! So based on the user name, are you the owner of orange cycles in steamboat? Great shop! I always try to support as I drive through steamboat often.


No, I own an orange Felt. I live in Florida. I used to live in Steamboat Springs. During the 1980's Today I ride flat in Florida.


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## dwb3 (Jan 15, 2015)

Happy 2023 all!
Every new year I find myself reflecting on the year gone by.
Because broke my Orbia Flow 2006, had to get a used MTB to keep heart lung health.
Got me remembering my much younger days on my edge (named
Roolinodabs) riding red rocks formations and singles near
Morrison where lived then.
My oh so beloved black lab would always come with, miss her to tears!
Fun to read there are guys who also rode them.
Mine has chopped chain stays, longer seat post, rollar cam f brake.
It is in my moms crawl space unridden since late 90s.
Just might have to bring it back
with next few and far between
USA-EU trip so as to compair with my new to me Giantrance 3 2019.
Remember well super chunk rock gardens and jeep like rock formation
Passes.
Sure if bring back will need tires.
Best cost/performance 24' rear tire ideas please?
Do also recall others questioning mono
chain ring and ultra short chain
stays, could they follow me?
dwb


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## abaris (Feb 13, 2010)

dwb3 said:


> …
> Sure if bring back will need tires.
> Best cost/performance 24' rear tire ideas please?
> Do also recall others questioning mono
> ...


Wow, it's been a long time since I've been on this site/thread!! Glad to see that Strangebike13 is still kicking. 

dwb3, I run a Maxxis Minion 24 x 2.4 SuperTacky on the back of my Edge. My Edge has shorten stays and a single front chainring (24t). I don't go as fast as Strangebike13 anf his compadres (forgot his handle, Josh Snyder.)


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

All this Edge talk made me pull my wife’s bike off the hook, air up the tires, and dust her off! My wife rode the bike once I think and I probably put 3-4 rides on it over the years. I need to find some flat bars to put back on the bike and maybe an old flite saddle.


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## dwb3 (Jan 15, 2015)

I forgot about the r derailer protector, fun to see.
The memory worm hole is sucking me, need to google map the single switchback used to pedal up to check
Vert stats and compair what happens now, almost 40 years later. Most likley not be fun to ponder aging,
Were all the stock cable housings yellow?
Will someone please post the chain stay length, hope to find brave family member to go down into moms crawl space and measure my chopped one.
Will post if so and sure be shocked to
compair to lllooonnnggg mystro
Trance!
dwb


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