# Time to retire my 2002 Monster T?



## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

I've had this fork forever. I'm no spring chicken and play music professionally so number one on my list is DON'T GET INJURED. So I have a big, heavy stable bike. My Monster has saved my ass many times and is plush, stiff, and reliable. That said I can get a new Fox 40 air sprung fork for $900 or so and save 3 lbs. and maybe improve performance? Dunno as I've never ridden one. Also I know some guys run tubeless on their big bikes. I have Nevegal wire bead tires, 2.7F and 2.5R, and beefy tubes. Alex rims. Can I go tubeless and use different tires maybe like Schwalbe Big Bettys and save some weight while maintaining the same traction and flat resistance? I never flat as it is. My bike weighs 50lbs., has two chainrings, and I climb everything with it. I'm used to it but maybe I should move into the present...


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

The Fox is an awesome upgrade. There won't be any flex and the adjustments all work wonders compared to the Monster T. I had one too. Plus, the Float will allow you to make tiny adjustments to the "spring" by adjusting air pressure instead of new springs or spacers. 

Ttyl, Fahn


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

LarryFahn said:


> The Fox is an awesome upgrade. There won't be any flex and the adjustments all work wonders compared to the Monster T. I had one too. Plus, the Float will allow you to make tiny adjustments to the "spring" by adjusting air pressure instead of new springs or spacers.
> 
> Ttyl, Fahn


That big a difference? Ok sounds like a good move. What about the tubeless tires?


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

Is it necessary to carry a shock pump in your pack?


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

The Monster T is a heavy pig, that's for sure. But it always felt super smooth to me. Switching to air, you'll definitely notice the weight savings, as well as a bit more harshness. Not a ton, but it's hard to compete with the older Marz forks in terms of velvety goodness. The air fork might require a bit more maintenance (seals and the like), but the weight savings alone will be a big deal. I'd make the switch myself. 

Regarding the tubes, I'd go tubeless for sure. If you're not pounding DH all the time, I'd say ditch the wire bead pigs and go for some folding tires with beefy sidewalls. Tubeless gives incredibly good traction for most people. I am running a ghetto tubeless setup (bmx tube + sealant) and I've had only one flat in 4+ years. And that was a valve stem that ripped out, not a normal flat. 

You'll notice a huge weight savings if you do all that to your bike. Huge. I say go for it.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Actually, you'll be saving 5-6lbs. The Monster T in 03 was 12lbs. The 40 float is 6.something. 

As far as plushness goes, you won't be disappointed. I had the '03 Monster T,' 07 888, and a '12 888. None had disappointed me. This year I went to the Fox 40 float and don't notice any "harshness". You won't have to carry a pump with you. Once it's set up, you should be good to go. 
The fork will have the air volume, high speed compression, low speed compression and rebound. You'll find a happy place with it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed with a new, lighter fork. Ttyl, Fahn


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

charging_rhinos said:


> The Monster T is a heavy pig, that's for sure. But it always felt super smooth to me. Switching to air, you'll definitely notice the weight savings, as well as a bit more harshness. Not a ton, but it's hard to compete with the older Marz forks in terms of velvety goodness. The air fork might require a bit more maintenance (seals and the like), but the weight savings alone will be a big deal. I'd make the switch myself.
> 
> Regarding the tubes, I'd go tubeless for sure. If you're not pounding DH all the time, I'd say ditch the wire bead pigs and go for some folding tires with beefy sidewalls. Tubeless gives incredibly good traction for most people. I am running a ghetto tubeless setup (bmx tube + sealant) and I've had only one flat in 4+ years. And that was a valve stem that ripped out, not a normal flat.
> 
> You'll notice a huge weight savings if you do all that to your bike. Huge. I say go for it.


 I

I am leery to give up my wire bead DH tires. With gear I'm at least 200 lbs and most of my riding is in sharp edged rocks. I'd still consider tubeless though. I just don't know anything about it. Can I use my existing rims?


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

LarryFahn said:


> Actually, you'll be saving 5-6lbs. The Monster T in 03 was 12lbs. The 40 float is 6.something.
> 
> As far as plushness goes, you won't be disappointed. I had the '03 Monster T,' 07 888, and a '12 888. None had disappointed me. This year I went to the Fox 40 float and don't notice any "harshness". You won't have to carry a pump with you. Once it's set up, you should be good to go.
> The fork will have the air volume, high speed compression, low speed compression and rebound. You'll find a happy place with it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed with a new, lighter fork. Ttyl, Fahn


The 2002 Monster I have is 9 lbs. They changed it to the 12 lb version you had in 2003.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

The 99-2002 Monster has the best axle mounting system imo. Threaded axle and one pinch bolt. Wish the newer forks were the same.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

What about an older coil model 40? Would that be a plusher feel? What's the weight dif?


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Telewacker said:


> The 99-2002 Monster has the best axle mounting system imo. Threaded axle and one pinch bolt. Wish the newer forks were the same.


I know the X-Fusion RV1 is, not sure about others:










Edit: Also going to put it out there that if you're looking at spending $900 you could put down a bit more and replace the whole bike.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

cerebroside said:


> I know the X-Fusion RV1 is, not sure about others:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why? I love that frame.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Telewacker said:


> Why? I love that frame.


Completely up to you, but you could probably spend $2000 instead of $900 and get a used bike that's 15 lbs lighter, climbs a lot better, and is just as reliable. As you said:



Telewacker said:


> ...I'm used to it but maybe I should move into the present...


Demo some newer bikes if you want to find out I guess.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

cerebroside said:


> Completely up to you, but you could probably spend $2000 instead of $900 and get a used bike that's 15 lbs lighter, climbs a lot better, and is just as reliable. As you said:
> 
> Demo some newer bikes if you want to find out I guess.


I've ridden a Nomad which is an all mountain favorite and while it was lighter it couldn't match the traction, stiffness and plushness of my Huckster. I spent a lot of time narrowing down frames when I bought it. It won out due to it's suspension design and geometry. Few people know about them. 8" of travel, a short stiff rear end, progressive linkage, pivots at the end of both stays, low center of gravity, angles a bit steeper than a full DH bike. I couldn't find anything better for my style of riding which includes slow technical stuff, technical climbing, as well as bombing down rocky trails. It pedals great and with an Avy DH shock it's really plush. People look at it and think it's just a single pivot design. It's not.

It's just a heavy bike but with a 40 and tubeless I could shave off 6 or 7 lbs. No 35 lb bike will be as stiff and stable though.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

Some pics of frame.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Telewacker said:


> No 35 lb bike will be as stiff and stable though.


Before you do anything go ride a few burly trail bikes. You'll be surprised what they do. I ride almost the same stuff on a 13kg 160mm bike as I did on a 18kg 180mm DH bike more than 10 years ago. (28lb vs 40lb). Best of all it's more fun to ride up too.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

Mudguard25 said:


> Before you do anything go ride a few burly trail bikes. You'll be surprised what they do. I ride almost the same stuff on a 13kg 160mm bike as I did on a 18kg 180mm DH bike more than 10 years ago. (28lb vs 40lb). Best of all it's more fun to ride up too.


Does a Nomad with a 6" travel 36mm stanchion fork count?


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Telewacker said:


> Does a Nomad with a 6" travel 36mm stanchion fork count?


Of course. If saving some weight is a goal and the Monster T needs a rest then you probably want to take a look at the rest of the package. I recently stopped riding my 2004 Enduro SX, which was over 16kg. The only reason was because I was offered a great price on a 2014 version. And it's 3kg lighter and just as capable. Yet I could have quite happily got another 5 years out of it.

Nothing will feel like your current bike, you've got very wide tires, very beefy tubes and more travel than trail bikes have. So not even a new DH bike will feel the same.
If you get bored, weigh the wheels, I'm curious to know what they weigh.

If you've got your heart set on a new fork, then get some 888's as at least they're coil forks so will perform the same if not better than your Monsters.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

Mudguard25 said:


> Of course. If saving some weight is a goal and the Monster T needs a rest then you probably want to take a look at the rest of the package. I recently stopped riding my 2004 Enduro SX, which was over 16kg. The only reason was because I was offered a great price on a 2014 version. And it's 3kg lighter and just as capable. Yet I could have quite happily got another 5 years out of it.
> 
> Nothing will feel like your current bike, you've got very wide tires, very beefy tubes and more travel than trail bikes have. So not even a new DH bike will feel the same.
> If you get bored, weigh the wheels, I'm curious to know what they weigh.
> ...


Disagree about the 888. My buddy has a VP Free with an 888 and replaced it with the same Monster T I have. We both agree the Monster Is stiffer , plusher, and had a noticeably wider turning radius. I definitely want 40mm stanchions. I could get a coil version Fox 40 for $500.

My front wheel is 8 lbs.

I really want to stick with my frame and other parts. Just maybe a fork change and tubeless tires for now.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Telewacker said:


> Disagree about the 888. My buddy has a VP Free with an 888 and replaced it with the same Monster T I have. We both agree the Monster Is stiffer , plusher, and had a noticeably wider turning radius. I definitely want 40mm stanchions. I could get a coil version Fox 40 for $500.
> 
> My front wheel is 8 lbs.


I don't know why you would want a wider turning radius? The BB on the Huckster is nearly 15 inches high so I think you'd want as much maneuverability as possible?
If you're after 40mm stanchions then it looks you don't need any more help finding a fork.

Get some lighter 2.3-2.5 tires, go tubeless and ride it for another ten years.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

Mudguard25 said:


> I don't know why you would want a wider turning radius? The BB on the Huckster is nearly 15 inches high so I think you'd want as much maneuverability as possible?
> If you're after 40mm stanchions then it looks you don't need any more help finding a fork.
> 
> Get some lighter 2.3-2.5 tires, go tubeless and ride it for another ten years.


What I mean is the Monster can turn farther to the left or right before the stanchions hit the frame so it is more maneuverable, not less.

I'm willing to experiment with tires. I just got a Big Betty and put it on the rear. I'll test it out on the Tunnel Trail in Santa Barbara this week. The ghetto tubeless approach looks interesting so I'll give that a shot soon. It seems like opinions are split as to whether or not the Fox 40 Float is as smooth as a coil fork. If it's not and only one pound lighter I might opt for the coil version. I'm still unclear though.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

Here's a thread on the Huckster from 2007. That's when I got this frame and I still have never had to replace a bushing or pivot! My buddy's VP Free has had a couple of bearing changeouts with less riding time.

http://forums.mtbr.com/downhill-freeride/astrix-huckster-295490.html


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

I admit I haven't paid any attention to the evolution of bikes since I bought my frame in 2007. I see HT angles are slacker, BBs lower...the Canfield one looks like something I would like. It can accept a F der and an 8" fork. How much weight would it save over my Astrix? Hard to imagine it could pedal better but maybe so. Are people all about 27.5" now? 1x10 drive trains? The Canfield Balance doesn't accept a F Der so I assume it uses a 1x10 setup to get climbing gear ratios.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

Find or cut a 2ft x 3ft (or just a few inches more then the total length of the fork) plank of wood. Stain it, and mount the fork to the plank of wood and mount it in the wall


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

I used to ride practically the same bike as you; SC Bullit with an Avalanche DHS rear shock and an '01 Monster on the front. 45-pound behemoth, it was. Still rode it up nearly everything and even beat some XC guys at times.

Anyway I don't miss that bike one bit. I thought I would, but once I moved to a more modern bike I saw how overkill everything was. I highly recommend that you try some more modern, lighter bikes.

I used to swear by my Monster T -- that thing was bullet-proof and hardly ever needed any maintenance. NOTHING modern compares to the durability and trouble-free experience of those older Marzocchis. That's something you'll just have to get used to if you buy anything new.

However, here's what I noticed when I switched to a new bike with a Fox 36 Van up front:

The weight loss is a HUGE advantage, obviously. I didn't/don't miss the stiffness of the Monster. My 36 is stiff enough. I also noticed, after the fact, that my Monster never had much in the way of low-speed compression damping. While it was plush as butter, it always suffered from brake-dive and kind of wallowed in its travel and bobbed quite a bit while charging hard. My 36, and most other new forks "hold you up" a little better and save some of their travel for the huge hits. You pay a little penalty in small-bump sensitivity, but you gain a lot of SPEED and confidence in the steep and gnarly situations.

Just a little background -- I used to ride pretty big FR terrain features; the gnarliest trails in Vancouver, Whistler, and B.C. in general, and even the Rampage course a few times. Suffice it to say, I tested the limits of my old tank-bike; I'm not just some guy who did 8 foot drops and called them 20 footers. I don't miss the weight, and don't need that much bike anymore to do my stuff. Granted...I don't ride that huge stuff anymore either. But for straight up DH, I vastly prefer my 36 pound SX Trail with its modern geometry. I can go faster with less effort and more control, which = more fun.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

cookieMonster said:


> I used to ride practically the same bike as you; SC Bullit with an Avalanche DHS rear shock and an '01 Monster on the front. 45-pound behemoth, it was. Still rode it up nearly everything and even beat some XC guys at times.
> 
> Anyway I don't miss that bike one bit. I thought I would, but once I moved to a more modern bike I saw how overkill everything was. I highly recommend that you try some more modern, lighter bikes.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the thoughtful post. I will say that the 2002 Monster had improved cartridges so I don't have some of the issues you did with fork dive etc., and my frame has a much better suspension design than the Bullit but your points are taken. I think I'd still like an 8" travel bike with a Fox 40. I'm open to tire suggestions, tubeless, kevlar...I rode with a Big Betty on the rear this week and it felt better right away, though still wire bead and DH tube. I rode a gnarly trail...Tunnel in Santa Barbara, and while there are probably riders that would tackle that trail with a 6 or 7 inch travel AM bike I don't think I'm one of them. The other two riders had V10s.

What are some bikes to look at? I haven't paid any attention for almost 10 years. I just rode my bike solo or with my wife or friends so I've not really been exposed to the latest developments. If I could find a used bike for 2k that would be good.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

Measured my Huckster. 14.5" BB and 65 degree HA. The only thing on the frame that stands out to me as much different from modern bikes is the BB height and at 10lbs probably heavier too, plus the Avy is a heavy shock. The good thing about it is it pedals great with no bob. I got it down to 48lbs. with Big Bettys and XC tubes lol. Not seeing a way to get it to 40lbs without SC air fork and air shock, folding tubeless tires, and some carbon parts. Looking to buy a Canfield The One and then save up for a used DH bike, hopefully a Jedi.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Old bikes are awesome. But after more than a decade of evolution I think you're on the right track. Your old Avy is worth some bucks still. Part out the bike if you can stomach it for more cash, or hang it on the wall. Better yet, everyone needs a Monster T lamp in their man cave!

I think you've got the right idea, buy a used good condition bike, or even better two! Looks like there are a few on sale over at pb, both Jedi and The One.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

eshew said:


> Old bikes are awesome. But after more than a decade of evolution I think you're on the right track. Your old Avy is worth some bucks still. Part out the bike if you can stomach it for more cash, or hang it on the wall. Better yet, everyone needs a Monster T lamp in their man cave!
> 
> I think you've got the right idea, buy a used good condition bike, or even better two! Looks like there are a few on sale over at pb, both Jedi and The One.


Yes I'm working a deal on a The One. So would you recommend against just trying to sell my Astrix? Remember this is the best vintage monster T...has the good dampers but before it became the 12lb pig. All good parts and the rare 8" travel bike that really pedals well. If I could get 1k...too optimistic?


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

With CL and PB it doesn't hurt to try. You always get more $ by parting a bike out but it takes more time and effort. You're going to have to weigh sentiment vs cash in hand. 10 years from now will looking at the bike or fork on the wall still make you feel all warm and fuzzy? I still think a floor standing Monster T fork lamp would be awesome!


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

eshew said:


> With CL and PB it doesn't hurt to try. You always get more $ by parting a bike out but it takes more time and effort. You're going to have to weigh sentiment vs cash in hand. 10 years from now will looking at the bike or fork on the wall still make you feel all warm and fuzzy? I still think a floor standing Monster T fork lamp would be awesome!
> 
> View attachment 1043917


Well let me see how I feel after riding The One. It has a Totem air. I've been pedaling a 50lb bike for 15 years so it feels normal to me. It has made me pretty strong too. I do well in the gnarly rocks but can't keep up on twisty single track.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Telewacker said:


> I've ridden a Nomad which is an all mountain favorite and while it was lighter it couldn't match the traction, stiffness and plushness of my Huckster. I spent a lot of time narrowing down frames when I bought it. It won out due to it's suspension design and geometry. Few people know about them. 8" of travel, a short stiff rear end, progressive linkage, pivots at the end of both stays, low center of gravity, angles a bit steeper than a full DH bike. I couldn't find anything better for my style of riding which includes slow technical stuff, technical climbing, as well as bombing down rocky trails. It pedals great and with an Avy DH shock it's really plush. People look at it and think it's just a single pivot design. It's not.
> 
> It's just a heavy bike but with a 40 and tubeless I could shave off 6 or 7 lbs. No 35 lb bike will be as stiff and stable though.


Get a Canfield Jedi....The suspension is better then that bike.....You will get added traction with the Canfield suspension. Because during braking the bike doesn't bounce as much as the Astrik suspension....If you like a big bike feel....then go for it


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Get a Canfield Jedi....The suspension is better then that bike.....You will get added traction with the Canfield suspension. Because during braking the bike doesn't bounce as much as the Astrik suspension....If you like a big bike feel....then go for it


Yeah I have Jedi in my sights, but first I have to get an all around bike, one that I can pedal uphill too. I am getting a The One. My Huckster has been my only bike.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

Here's an idea. This is assuming you're not wanting to blow tons of money on multiple bikes, given your other posts. If you are wanting a big bike, the One is very close. I'd say it's equal to if not better than all but the most purpose-built DH race machines. It basically just pedals better, that's about the only difference. And Canfield says it's fine to put a dual crown on it. So...

If I were you, I'd get the One that you're already ordering, and get an extra dual crown fork and stem. Swap out the dual crown when you're going big, and put on the single crown when you want to save a bit of weight. As long as you keep the crown race in good shape, it's only 10 minutes to swap everything over. In fairness, that Totem on the One is pretty dang heavy, so you wouldn't save a TON of weight. But you would save weight. A dual crown beast that can pedal you back to the top for more. Never a bad thing.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

charging_rhinos said:


> Here's an idea. This is assuming you're not wanting to blow tons of money on multiple bikes, given your other posts. If you are wanting a big bike, the One is very close. I'd say it's equal to if not better than all but the most purpose-built DH race machines. It basically just pedals better, that's about the only difference. And Canfield says it's fine to put a dual crown on it. So...
> 
> If I were you, I'd get the One that you're already ordering, and get an extra dual crown fork and stem. Swap out the dual crown when you're going big, and put on the single crown when you want to save a bit of weight. As long as you keep the crown race in good shape, it's only 10 minutes to swap everything over. In fairness, that Totem on the One is pretty dang heavy, so you wouldn't save a TON of weight. But you would save weight. A dual crown beast that can pedal you back to the top for more. Never a bad thing.


Sure I can just put the Monster T on it! jk...Yes it looks like The Fox 40 is the same weight as the Totem, so why not just replace it with one? After all I'm used to riding a dual crown fork as the Huckster has been my only bike for years. I could see having two wheel sets...does that make sense?


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

That makes perfect sense. The pedaling platform of the One will be FAR better than that of the Astrix, so you already will be able to better keep up with your friends. Granted, if they are on light AM machines, they'll probably still beat you to the top. But you will slaughter them on the way down. Slaughter.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Telewacker said:


> Sure I can just put the Monster T on it! jk...Yes it looks like The Fox 40 is the same weight as the Totem, so why not just replace it with one? After all I'm used to riding a dual crown fork as the Huckster has been my only bike for years. I could see having two wheel sets...does that make sense?


You really want that Fox 40, huh? Just going to point out that you might not find the Totem Solo Air very 'plush' (based on my RS solo air fork), but they can be converted to coil at a ~200 g weight penalty. Apart from the weight my coil Totem was great, at least until the damper self destructed.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

cerebroside said:


> You really want that Fox 40, huh? Just going to point out that you might not find the Totem Solo Air very 'plush' (based on my RS solo air fork), but they can be converted to coil at a ~200 g weight penalty. Apart from the weight my coil Totem was great, at least until the damper self destructed.


Yeah the 40 is really what I want.


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## Telewacker (Oct 5, 2005)

Just bought the 40 so I'll sell the Totem when I get The One.


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