# Best ALL around bike?



## BlackHornet (Feb 5, 2008)

Hey guys, I just recently bought a XC full suspension and I love it but I am wondering what would the best full suspension that can take drops but can still pedal uphill. I would like to have atleast 6 inches of travel in the back. I know that rear shocks have their own version of "Pro-pedal" but that doesnt conpletely eliminate the bob. So if yall had to get a bike that could take some drops.....prolly not more than a 10 footer, prolly around 5' or 6'to flats occasionally....but still be alright pedaling uphill, what frame would yall choose? It could be a few years old because I am willing to purchase it used, so it doesnt have to be a newer model


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

reignx


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

karpiel apocalypse


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Heckler or Bullitt

higher end.....VPFree, Intense Uzzi, SoCom


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Duncon Tosa Inu.. 6.7 inches of travel, 9.7lbs with coil shock.

I'm loving mine, climbs great even with a non platform shock (Marzocchi Roco WC).


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## BlackHornet (Feb 5, 2008)

it handle around a 7 foot drop with a 180 pounds on top of it?


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

I believe so.


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## BlackHornet (Feb 5, 2008)

you know about how much those frames are running? i cant find one online except new....i would rather buy it used cuz then i cant put that leftover money into parts....


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## hamiltonj2w1 (Dec 15, 2007)

Nomad 165mm of rear travel paired with a fox float or talas climbs as well as a cross country race bike but descends like a downhill bike I love mine.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

They are cheap man, I got my frame only (no shock) at the local distributor for 850 bucks, then I got a Roco WC and some FSA Pig Pro headset.


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## clockwork (Dec 9, 2006)

Sxtrail 170mm 9.1lbs with fox dhx5 or reign or older enduro.


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## The Tod Says What?! (Jan 20, 2007)

tacubaya said:


> Duncon Tosa Inu.. 6.7 inches of travel, 9.7lbs with coil shock.
> 
> I'm loving mine, climbs great even with a non platform shock (Marzocchi Roco WC).


lets see some pics Tacu or did you already make a thread i missed?


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## MattP. (Oct 3, 2005)

The latest crop of Canfields look to be promising: The One, 7-8" travel, 7lbs w/ DHX air:








They also make a 5-6" version with the same suspension.


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## rustyskills (Dec 23, 2007)

i dont like the look of that canfield....


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## darkest_fugue (Sep 25, 2007)

neither do i, the top tube looks like a broken coat rail, the frame itself looks flimsy and that blue rocker looks like a left over from a broken transformers toy from the 80s, its all about the ride though and if its sweet then what the hell


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## Juno (Jan 13, 2008)

hamiltonj2w1 said:


> Nomad 165mm of rear travel paired with a fox float or talas climbs as well as a cross country race bike but descends like a downhill bike I love mine.


Agreed. You can build the Nomad to AM/FR to a mini DH bike. One of the better bikes to build for an allrounder.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

The Tod Says What?! said:


> lets see some pics Tacu or did you already make a thread i missed?


I will post a report and pics when I get proper shots of the bike and some action pics, I don't wanna be a poser  :thumbsup:


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## gil_caz (Jul 12, 2006)

V10, im not a lil biased. 

jk, can fields seem to be good for pedaling stiff and smooth plush hits.


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## andykrow (Apr 3, 2005)

Don't forget the bikes from up north... My Brodie has 6.75", FSR rear end, and I've blasted through cranksets and BB's several times without any complaints from the frame. All sealed bearings and four huge bearings on the main pivot. Used to hit 6 or 7 feet to flat all time till I got sick of replacing drivetrain stuff... Climbing is great but I do have a DHX. That FSR link just rules on downhill and braking though.

My bro's Norco is strong as hell too. Pretty much the same FSR linkage. (Gotta love these guys for ripping off specialized...) 

Brodie has factory clearance frames on their website for way cheap. I think you can get a thumper frame with no shock for under 300 bucks.



...oh and I think I heard flymybike saying he took the one off the mushroom drop so...


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Foes FXR?


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

This is hwat I pedal up and down


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## captain spaulding (May 7, 2006)

Commencal Supreme Mini-DH! fits the bill perfectly.


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## Karupshun (Jun 13, 2006)

tacubaya said:


> I will post a report and pics when I get proper shots of the bike and some action pics, I don't wanna be a poser  :thumbsup:


Sweet, I was wondering what you ended up getting


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## nostrangertodanger (Feb 15, 2008)

I wouldn't go with air shock go with coil! reign x is bad mother! Nomad also good but reign is lower center of gravity for turning! Ironhorse 6.6?coil may not fit. Specialized sx deal probably good too. I have ridden 4 bars for years but susp. design doesn''t work like maestro or d.w.! friend just finished his sx trail(bear claw machine) so I will know soon if it is as good.


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## faster (Feb 27, 2006)

Another vote for reign x


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## darkest_fugue (Sep 25, 2007)

ive got an 08 SX II on order so im hoping itll do anytihng i want it to do like specialized claim, i love that blitz by the way, however going by how clean it is it doesnt look like to pedal it anywhere heh


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## GetDirty (Jul 12, 2006)

Marin Quake- Pedals amazingly.
http://www.marinbikes.com/2008/us/homepage/index.php


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## norcobryce (Jan 27, 2007)

giant riegn x or norco six


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## mace2 (May 3, 2004)

Nomad or Reign X.


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## Wadsworth McStackton (Nov 15, 2004)

I vote Nomad. I'm 205 and I'm running a Fox dhx air. Had it for a year and a half and haven't had a single problem. Ride everything with it since it's my only bike. The secret is owning a heavy and a light wheelset.

I know this isn't the biggest air, but big for me.


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## BlackHornet (Feb 5, 2008)

ok guys, im liking the heckler and nomads......i hear that the older hecklers are the ones to get (04-07) models. anyone have a good deal on one? same with nomads, need a good deal. Im not set on these but these seem the best bang for the buck right now


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## MTB_prodigy (Jun 16, 2007)

bullit

I use mine for jumps 4-25ft, drops 6 or 7 feet(soon to be 11 feet), a little cross country(I'm about to start doing climbs regularly), and of course DH


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## BlackHornet (Feb 5, 2008)

Ive heard bullits dont climb as well.....i may be wrong though


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## MTB_prodigy (Jun 16, 2007)

BlackHornet said:


> Ive heard bullits dont climb as well.....i may be wrong though


true, Nomads do climb better


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## Chapped (o) Hole (Nov 13, 2007)

Why no votes for the Moment?


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

because mtbr is full of anti-ellsworth hate. 

i loved the feel of the rogue i rode, but i gotta admit ellsworth has some shady practices going...like that atlas crap, thats just a patented single pivot setup. anyway, most of mtbr seems to have it in for ellsworth as far as i can tell


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## BlackHornet (Feb 5, 2008)

anyone know how much the following bikes weigh after built up:

Heckler
Bullit
Nomad


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## moshelove (Jun 8, 2005)

I vote Reign x or Nomad. Don't take people's word too seriously though. Go test ride. Two wheel sets is key.


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## BlackHornet (Feb 5, 2008)

ya i probably will but the hecklers and bullits are cheaper.....so i am finding


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## MTB_prodigy (Jun 16, 2007)

Wadsworth McStackton said:


> I vote Nomad. I'm 205 and I'm running a Fox dhx air. Had it for a year and a half and haven't had a single problem. Ride everything with it since it's my only bike. The secret is owning a heavy and a light wheelset.
> 
> I know this isn't the biggest air, but big for me.


Sweet drop.


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## Speedwa (Oct 30, 2005)

Reign X. I bought a frame this winter and built it up as a mini dh bike with a fox 5.0 coil, rc2x. Love it.


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## darkest_fugue (Sep 25, 2007)

i was wondering why Ellsworth didnt get more of a mention, i really like the look of the Rogue, i was on their website a while ago though, it has this detailed video explanation going on about their own version of the 4 bar link and why its better than every other suspension, i didnt understand a word he was talking about!!!!


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## Bullit21 (Feb 2, 2004)

Wadsworth McStackton said:


> I vote Nomad. I'm 205 and I'm running a Fox dhx air. Had it for a year and a half and haven't had a single problem. Ride everything with it since it's my only bike. The secret is owning a heavy and a light wheelset.
> 
> I know this isn't the biggest air, but big for me.


Wadsworth,

Just rode that spot last weekend and the runout on that gap looks sketch. I am assume you were able to stop before hitting the brush at the bottom of the hill? Or did you land farther to the right toward the bowl?


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## combatkimura (Jul 17, 2007)

Morewood Shova LT 7.1" for the bigger stuff or Mbuzi 6.1" for more AM stuff.


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## Big Mike (Oct 26, 2005)

darkest_fugue said:


> neither do i, the top tube looks like a broken coat rail, the frame itself looks flimsy and that blue rocker looks like a left over from a broken transformers toy from the 80s,


More thought went into that blue rocker than you put into your entire last year in school, son. There's more to it than meets the eye.

The latest Canfield line is the result of 8 years of real-world R&D and testing by 2 of the best riders in the country.



darkest_fugue said:


> its all about the ride though and if its sweet then what the hell


At least you realize that much - yes, it's all about the ride. The One is a 8" travel all-mountain bike that pedals more efficiently than anything you've ridden with that kind of depth. Standing or sitting, big or little ring, there's very little input from the drivetrain. Which means very little bobbing or pedal kick and excellent power transfer. And 8" on tap. Moto out...


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## Wadsworth McStackton (Nov 15, 2004)

Bullit21 said:


> Wadsworth,
> 
> Just rode that spot last weekend and the runout on that gap looks sketch. I am assume you were able to stop before hitting the brush at the bottom of the hill? Or did you land farther to the right toward the bowl?


I thought the same thing too originally. There's more than enough room to stop before you hit the bushes. The landing is super smooth.:thumbsup:


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## hamiltonj2w1 (Dec 15, 2007)

BlackHornet said:


> anyone know how much the following bikes weigh after built up:
> 
> Heckler
> Bullit
> Nomad


I have my Nomad right at 32.5 lbs dhx air talas 36rc2 king hubs on mavic 823's carbon bars gravity dropper seat post and mostly xt drivetrain.


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## hamiltonj2w1 (Dec 15, 2007)

here is my Nomad at 32.5 lbs


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

combatkimura said:


> Morewood Shova LT 7.1" for the bigger stuff or Mbuzi 6.1" for more AM stuff.


Ding ding ding...we have a winner!


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## nealpederson (Jun 8, 2004)

SX Trail! I just got an 07' SX Trail I with fork upgraded to the same Fox 36 Van RC2 that comes on the Trail III. I also have and 07' Enduro SL and an 08' Demo 8 (I like 4-bar!). If I had to have just one there's no doubt it would be the SX Trail. I can use the Trail for nearly everything I use the Demo for and it pedals just as good as the Enduro SL although it is heavier. It could probably be setup lighter if I was going to do more XC on it.


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## Terminator Z (Feb 16, 2007)

What, no love for the 6point? w/ a DHX coil shock, and coil Domain forks, and no "weight savers" mine weighs in at 38lbs. and w/ the DW link it climbs pretty damn good.


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## hamiltonj2w1 (Dec 15, 2007)

My friends got a 7point and it pedals ten times better then my stinky anything with the dw link would be a good set up for an all around bike. But it sounds to me like this discussion would be better suited for the "all mountain forum"


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## FreerideMonkey7 (Oct 12, 2007)

Terminator Z said:


> What, no love for the 6point? w/ a DHX coil shock, and coil Domain forks, and no "weight savers" mine weighs in at 38lbs. and w/ the DW link it climbs pretty damn good.


i was just gonna mention that and the 7point as great all around bikes
others include:
marin quake 7
those new canfields
intense slopestyle
santa cruz nomad
corsair maelstrom
basically anything thats downhill capable and pedals well and isnt too heavy
it all comes down to geometry and preferance


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## one incredible donkey (Jul 19, 2007)

Can anyone offer an opinion on the Mongoose Khyber? For the price it looks like a helluva bike.


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

Yeti AS-X ..


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## bighitboy (May 16, 2004)

nomad or giant Reign-x IH 6 points feel kind of weird, but i hear the new changes have helped them out abit. (slackened them out)


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## combatkimura (Jul 17, 2007)

one incredible donkey said:


> Can anyone offer an opinion on the Mongoose Khyber? For the price it looks like a helluva bike.


Mongoose is really starting to make a strong comeback. The Khyber is indeed interesting especially at the price. I really want to test the freedrive suspension. It seems like it would feel really wierd but if Romaniuk is riding them they can't be too wierd. The protos that they're working on are extremely interesting to me. They're on my '08/'09 watch list for sure.


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## ryan_daugherty (Oct 8, 2006)

DeanH said:


> Yeti AS-X ..


yes, its cheap.. awesome construction - gorgeous welds - 6 to 7 inches.. simple maintenance - versatile. pedals pretty well out of the saddle.. pedals great in the saddle. you can build it in all different ways.. set up as a 6 inch am bike. solid fr w/ a 7 inch sc in front.. 1.5 ht. I even saw a guy riding semi-pro dual S on one.. w/ an argyle - and a shorter eye to shock giving it 4 or 5 inches of squish. It looked like a really fun set up.. he said too that when it bottoms out it doesn't hit the seat tube or his saddle.

anyway probably coolest bike around..

- ryan


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## Whambat (Jul 30, 2006)

DeanH said:


> Yeti AS-X ..


R.I.P.

Not in the lineup on yeti's site. Looks like the seven is replacing it.


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## 6milliondollarman (Dec 24, 2004)

Jwind said:


> This is hwat I pedal up and down


That is a gorgeous ride! I'd hang it on a wall and just stare at it, daydreaming about climbing, jumping, descending, dropping & such.

As an all around ride, my vote goes for the Nomad for it's versatility. Just look through the forums, you'll see threads about it in XC, AM, DH/Freeride, and DJs.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Whambat said:


> R.I.P.
> 
> Not in the lineup on yeti's site. Looks like the seven is replacing it.


AS-X...
I am sure there are still some new ones out there, and people selling lightly used ones after they found it is a bit too much bike for them...


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## rm_racer (Feb 3, 2006)

perttime said:


> AS-X...
> I am sure there are still some new ones out there, and people selling lightly used ones after they found it is a bit too much bike for them...


yeah, there are quite a few as-x deals out there


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

There are still dealers who have AS-X in stock, just gotta find them.

Its about the most versatile allrounder ive tried, can be set up for just about anything, and it pedals very well, if you take the 20 mins to set up the DHX propedal as well. 

The other points have been mentioned, i just found it a bit weird, that it wasnt mentioned before, if looking for a good allrounder, do yourself a favour and get to try one


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

The AS-X is good for going fast down the hill with a 170mm fork. For more general trails riding a shorter, or adjustable, fork would be better. IMO, at around 130mm the angles are much better for climbing and/or slower trails.



DeanH said:


> Its about the most versatile allrounder ive tried, can be set up for just about anything,


And it has the looks too Mine is black.


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## carbuncle (Dec 9, 2005)

BlackHornet said:


> Hey guys, I just recently bought a XC full suspension and I love it but I am wondering what would the best full suspension that can take drops but can still pedal uphill. I would like to have atleast 6 inches of travel in the back. I know that rear shocks have their own version of "Pro-pedal" but that doesnt conpletely eliminate the bob. So if yall had to get a bike that could take some drops.....prolly not more than a 10 footer, prolly around 5' or 6'to flats occasionally....but still be alright pedaling uphill, what frame would yall choose? It could be a few years old because I am willing to purchase it used, so it doesnt have to be a newer model


Older Kona Coiler, like 2007 or 2006 model year. I've got an '06 and it fits your requirements nicely.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Four words.....Turner Are Eff Ecks.:thumbsup:


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

6point from ih


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## Bullit21 (Feb 2, 2004)

Wadsworth McStackton said:


> I thought the same thing too originally. There's more than enough room to stop before you hit the bushes. The landing is super smooth.:thumbsup:


You have bigger nads than me. Maybe one of these days I will consider hitting that thing but we'll see.


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## ctrailfreak (Nov 24, 2004)

I'll have to second on the Versus Blitz II! I only have one ride in on mine so far and was blown away by how great it rides. I didn't want to leave the trail.:thumbsup: 
Here's mine...









Here's the only one I have on a smaller drop.








The drop looks flat in the first pic but here's the landing anyway....


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## E86 (Jun 24, 2006)

I would suggest the Morewood Shova ST. Here is my example. Rides well everywhere, Urban, XC, DJ, DH, Freeride.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

SANTA CRUZ NOMAD

BANSHEE RUNE

INTENSE 6.6ss


I owned a nomad for 2 years, and have a Rune on the way. Can say the Nomad was the best I've owned thus far, and hope the Rune works out even better.


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## duhduh2121 (Jan 9, 2008)

i use this bike for everything!!!


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## G-Ryder (Jan 29, 2007)

How about an Intense 6.6? That's what I have and it does the trick :thumbsup: 


Also the Nomad and IH6point6 are pretty dope as well.


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## rjh (Jul 24, 2008)

ricthedick said:


> Why no votes for the Moment?


it's a nice bike but it's tough to call it a great all around bike without iscg tabs. it's nice to have them on a 6 inch bie so you can run a chain guide if you want to do some lift access riding


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

_Turner
RFX/Highline

_


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## JonnyFLA (Aug 18, 2007)

I'd go for a Blur 4X over just about anything for the local stuff here but, everyone has a different riding style and trails to ride on .


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## Gruntled (Jul 7, 2008)

Have to represent the Ventana La Bruja. Really does it all, even cleans itself.
This is the best FR bike I have ridden... yet. I DH on it too, but it does lose a little stability at high speed due to the upward (not outward) suspension movement.


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## FreerideMonkey7 (Oct 12, 2007)

hehe, you and your la bruja I can't blaim you, though, looks like a sweet ride. 

those sunset pics are pretty cool:thumbsup:

did you bunnyhop onto that picnic table or did you have a ramp set up??


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## DirtGash (Mar 1, 2008)

William42 said:


> karpiel apocalypse


Most definatly the apocalypse :thumbsup:

I ride a hardtail so I really wouldn't know...but that's also why I still ride a hardtail 

When I do get a dually again it needs to fit the all around bill... I've got my sights set on the Foes FXR. With a curnutt in the rear who needs anything more then a simple single piviot!


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Sorry all, but I think the Banshee Rune takes the cake!

Weighing in at under 33lbs with coil shock & 6" front and rear, 1.5 HT, and ISCG tabs it's a real winner. AND, it's stiffer than my DH bike believe it or not, and way stiffer than my old Nomad. 

I love this one.


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## Mudd (Apr 22, 2002)

Best all-around bike? ....Santa Cruz VP-Free of course!


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## Gruntled (Jul 7, 2008)

mjw said:


> Sorry all, but I think the Banshee Rune takes the cake!
> 
> Weighing in at under 33lbs with coil shock & 6" front and rear, 1.5 HT, and ISCG tabs it's a real winner. AND, it's stiffer than my DH bike believe it or not, and way stiffer than my old Nomad.
> 
> I love this one.


The cake, according to your requirements for cake-taking, must therefore go to the La Bruja. 
It is THE most laterally stiff FR frame (that's what Sherwood Gibson at Ventana does best), and weighs in at 32.9lb with 7" front and rear, dual ply 2.7" Minions and tubes, with ISCG tabs and a 1.5"HT. Like you I have some DT 5.1D rims on XT hubs, these make the bike 1lb lighter but I prefer running my heavier Easton Havoc wheelset. Coil shock on the way, will increase weight to 33.1lb. With the DT Swiss on it that would come in at 32.1lb with coil shock. But I'll keep my Havocs on.

Yep, me and my bloody La Bruja.


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## HTFR (Jan 11, 2007)

What, no love for a BR or covert?

I have a Spec SXt and its not so bad at 36 lbs. It is def not a XC bike. I was pondering some XT wheels for longer rides. 

I don't know about 7 foot to flat, but for a mid travel, pedal everywhere, agressive bike, my vote goes to an 08 trek remedy9. That thing is no joke, but wicked $pendy.


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

sxtrail. 35.5 lbs. its like 38 with the dh wheelset


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Gruntled said:


> The cake, according to your requirements for cake-taking, must therefore go to the La Bruja.
> It is THE most laterally stiff FR frame (that's what Sherwood Gibson at Ventana does best), and weighs in at 32.9lb with 7" front and rear, dual ply 2.7" Minions and tubes, with ISCG tabs and a 1.5"HT. Like you I have some DT 5.1D rims on XT hubs, these make the bike 1lb lighter but I prefer running my heavier Easton Havoc wheelset. Coil shock on the way, will increase weight to 33.1lb. With the DT Swiss on it that would come in at 32.1lb with coil shock. But I'll keep my Havocs on.
> 
> Yep, me and my bloody La Bruja.


Highline covers all that and more and looks better imo good tease ya might win the weight weanie catagory, but HL wins the looks and big hit catagory, both very cool companies and cool bikes, nice rig gruntled:thumbsup:


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## Whafe (May 27, 2004)

trailadvent said:


> Highline covers all that and more and looks better imo good tease ya might win the weight weanie catagory, but HL wins the looks and big hit catagory, both very cool companies and cool bikes, nice rig gruntled:thumbsup:


I hear a "whole lotta hand on cock talk here".......


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Whafe said:


> I hear a "whole lotta hand on cock talk here".......


Can't beat em join em since everyone else is pulling there's out well  

Stalker


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## Whafe (May 27, 2004)

trailadvent said:


> Can't beat em join em since everyone else is pulling there's out well
> 
> Stalker


I hear ya, but there is no way that a HL is an all day pedaling bike, it is the coolest Turner there is, or was eekster:  ) and I agree it pedals well for its weight, but it aint no all day pedler....... Just my opinion. But you have more knowledge about all things Turner than mwah....


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Whafe said:


> I hear ya, but there is no way that a HL is an all day pedaling bike, it is the coolest Turner there is, or was eekster:  ) and I agree it pedals well for its weight, but it aint no all day pedler....... Just my opinion. But you have more knowledge about all things Turner than mwah....


Rubbish just got to harden up, its no XC bike and a Vegas ride with you guys would be tough but with the right crew it can easily handle all day rides it just depends on the amount of XC trails vs riding is all !

mwahhhhhh Nico

I woulda said my RFX but hence I posted a lightweight XC HL version I thought some might have picked up on that obviously too stealth and struck by its beauty badd as looks to notice

Lets see how ya feel after riding ya Triple clamp bike in Whistler you'll be hooked again..

Tis fun playing, but reality is the best bike is the best bike for you period, cock back in pants


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

wrong post.


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## Gruntled (Jul 7, 2008)

Laughing my head off!

I really struggled between the Highline and the La Bruja. Both are, as far as I was able to ascertain, the leading FR bikes out there at the moment. With a burning fistful of cash, I wanted to build up something I could race DH on, commute on (I can't NOT ride my bike!), and still do my favourite technical climbs. I live at the base of a very steep Escarpment, and must get up before I come down. I like riding to the top, but I like riding down better. So I was prepared to compromise a bit on climbing, but not to the point of single chain-ring up front. Essentially I wanted a DH bike that can climb. This doesn't exist, but I reckon the La Bruja is the closest, followed by the Highline. My choice came down to 2 points:
1. Suspension path on La Bruja is out, up, then in like this ) Highline path is up and out, more like this /. This means that the HL is more stable, has chain growth and pedal kickback, and the La Bruja is more "twitchy", with no chain growth and positive "kickback". Suspension path is critical.

2. The Highline weighs 11.1lb, the La Bruja weighs 8lb. The La Bruja is rumoured to be laterally stiffer and rock-solid as the highline. Lighter bike for me please. I would rather an 11lb DHR, or a Cuervo. 

I think the Highline looks much better. In all honesty I don't like looks of the La Bruja, but I am retarded, as my posts and choice of bike illustrate.

If anyone has some well justified thoughts on other "DH bikes that can climb", please let me know so I can start planning my next purchase... I want a slacker HA and 9" travel.


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Gruntled said:


> Laughing my head off!
> 
> I really struggled between the Highline and the La Bruja. Both are, as far as I was able to ascertain, the leading FR bikes out there at the moment. With a burning fistful of cash, I wanted to build up something I could race DH on, commute on (I can't NOT ride my bike!), and still do my favourite technical climbs. I live at the base of a very steep Escarpment, and must get up before I come down. I like riding to the top, but I like riding down better. So I was prepared to compromise a bit on climbing, but not to the point of single chain-ring up front. Essentially I wanted a DH bike that can climb. This doesn't exist, but I reckon the La Bruja is the closest, followed by the Highline. My choice came down to 2 points:
> 1. Suspension path on La Bruja is out, up, then in like this ) Highline path is up and out, more like this /. This means that the HL is more stable, has chain growth and pedal kickback, and the La Bruja is more "twitchy", with no chain growth and positive "kickback". Suspension path is critical.
> ...


Haha I hear ya I like the HL wieght then I have an excuse to walk up, I can't ride either, walking uphill is actually fun! coming down is just bliss

Canfeild Jedi might be an answer to that, still be heavier but a bud is going all out to create one heck of a light one:thumbsup:


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## albertomannil (Nov 25, 2007)

I cant seem to understand how a La Bruja's wheel path is up then out like this ) 
Rearward travel? Isn't this a single pivot bike? the pivot is at the same height as the rear hub thus creating NO rearward travel.

Correct me if I'm wrong...


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## Gruntled (Jul 7, 2008)

albertomannil said:


> I cant seem to understand how a La Bruja's wheel path is up then out like this )
> Rearward travel? Isn't this a single pivot bike? the pivot is at the same height as the rear hub thus creating NO rearward travel.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong...


Correction in progress. The swingarm has a bend at the BB end, like this ___/
Now go play with some sticks and a pencil and see how you can make it move through different parts of the arc by changing the point and angle of the bend in the swingarm. Fascinating stuff eh?

Wow, it moves out and up, then up, then in and up. Wow. Pure goddam rocketscience, Mr. Mannil


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Gruntled said:


> 1. Suspension path on La Bruja is out, up, then in like this ) Highline path is up and out, more like this /. This means that the HL is more stable, has chain growth and pedal kickback, and the La Bruja is more "twitchy", with no chain growth and positive "kickback". Suspension path is critical.
> 
> 2. The Highline weighs 11.1lb, the La Bruja weighs 8lb. The La Bruja is rumoured to be laterally stiffer and rock-solid as the highline. Lighter bike for me please. I would rather an 11lb DHR, or a Cuervo.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure that HL weight is either the large or extra large. In either case it's with a coil shock. I think my medium is like 10.75lbs with coil shock.

Also pretty sure that 8lbs is with an air shock on the la bruja. They are not 3lbs off. The la bruja is a super-beefy frame as well. I would flat out not believe that the la bruja is 8lb with a coil shock based on my 6pack/rfx weight, there's just no way.

On a similer note, I wouldn't touch a la bruja, or any other bike that has a DHX air, with a 10 foot pole. I've been there and done that, and it's simply a poor shock for agressive riding. It feels real nice and plush at first and at low speeds, but when you start pushing it, it starts showing it's inadequacies. A RP3 works better IMO and has better mid-stroke damping. Not that I'd want an RP3 on such a bike either, but in both bike's cases, you want a decent coil shock like a DHX coil, rocco, cane creek, avalanche, etc.

The other thing is the suspension path. The la bruja has a lower pivot, which means that it will arc towards the bike more, and not enough chain growth can be just as bad as too much, due to how it makes the pedal-torque affect the suspension and not cause it to compress excessively. That lower pivot also makes it a little harder for the suspension to deal with square-edged hits, as the highline's will move backwards a little more.

Lastly, I don't think you can quantify either bike as being "stiffer", but realize the highline has needle bearings at every pivot. Needle bearings are fairly expensive and difficult to design into a frame, but provide lateral stiffness that far exceeds most every bearing system save angular contact bearings, and then it just comes down to contact area.

Ventana builds a nice bike, and the highline is a little heavier built, able to provide a little more travel, and simply built for a little more extreme riding. This is going to decrease it's versatility compared to the la bruja, but depending on what bike or bikes you already own that may be a good thing to avoid too much redundancy.

I ain't going to pretend that pedaling a bike like the highline or taking it on all-day rides would be a good idea. I got a turner rfx as well and there's simply a lot of bikes that will be far better at that and still retain a good amount of dh/fr prowress than the highline. You get the highline if you're looking at doing some straight downhill/freeride action. You may be able to "ride up", but you'll only be able to "keep up" if you're riding with a bunch of people stuck on the same lead-sled.


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## Gruntled (Jul 7, 2008)

La Bruja weighs 7.44lb with the air shock, sorry to say, you are wrong. That point aside, I agree whole-heartedly with what you say! Air shocks suck when pushed hard, and I push this little Bruja very hard every ride. The local tracks are steep as and really the domain of pure DH bikes. But I only have FR/DH bike, I am not fortunate enough to have a FR and a DH bike. As I suggest in an earlier post, I want to get a DH sled next year, and am seriously studying up on what's what. I want a DH bike, because the La Bruja is not a DH bike, it can launch off things and tweaks better than plow through things. 

Jayem, how do ya get more travel on a Highline. I thought the 2007 and earlier had 8" and 2008 had 7.1", same as La Bruja? If you tell me there's more than 7.1" travel on the 2008 Highline, I will scream, as I will have to go and buy one, and I can't afford that without selling my ass for heroin, then selling the heroin to buy the sale price Highline frame.

When I get my 2009 DHX Coil next week I will be able to tell you what an improvement it is. I really, really don't like the air shock, but I wanted to try it out instead of just holding onto a naiive opinion. The Bruja doesn't come with an air shock, it's an "upgrade", so any frame weights you see are probably with a DHX coil. My frame will weigh 8.54lb with the DHX coil on it (if the fox specs are right). 

As for bearings, don't forget about the quad-bearing system on the Ventana frames, and their internal gussetts (light and strong). Mind you, the Ventana 9" DH bike, El Cuervo, weighs half a lb more than the DHR, so Ventana's not all just weight-weeny crap like the La Bruja.

I really lust after a Highline, or a DHR. Sigh. But for one bike, for one, do-it-all FR bike with the least compromises, I believe it's the La Bruja.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

well for me it has to be my orange patriot fr.....it does every thing i ride it every day comuting fr dh am xc every thing


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## lax30 (Apr 23, 2007)

i cnat belive no one chimmed in with a transition bottlerocket.....i like it, and you can set it up for ANYTHING.....mine single speeded up 34.2lbs


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Gruntled said:


> La Bruja weighs 7.44lb with the air shock, sorry to say, you are wrong. That point aside, I agree whole-heartedly with what you say! Air shocks suck when pushed hard, and I push this little Bruja very hard every ride. The local tracks are steep as and really the domain of pure DH bikes. But I only have FR/DH bike, I am not fortunate enough to have a FR and a DH bike. As I suggest in an earlier post, I want to get a DH sled next year, and am seriously studying up on what's what. I want a DH bike, because the La Bruja is not a DH bike, it can launch off things and tweaks better than plow through things.
> 
> Jayem, how do ya get more travel on a Highline. I thought the 2007 and earlier had 8" and 2008 had 7.1", same as La Bruja?


Turner will set up the highline with either travel choice when you call them and order it. That's what they did for me. No extra charge, they just put in the slightly longer shock that gives the 8". The highline will be discontinued (why it's so cheap right now), but if you got one rest assured that turner would take care of you if anything happened. They stand behind their stuff. The new RFX is supposedly going to overlap more with the highline, hence why the highline will be discontinued. The new RFX will probably be very much in line with the la bruja, probably same/similar weight and travel.

The La Bruja is 9lbs with coil shock, go check the ventana board if you need confirmation. You may be thinking of the el terremoto at the weights your posting, that would make sense. There's no way you can have as much metal as the la bruja has and have a 7.4lb frame, otherwise they'd be building sub 30lb la brujas. It's a great bike, but it's not *that* light.

Even though I know I'll love my highline, even I would rather have the La Bruja as an "all around" bike. It may not be my first choice for such a bike, but it would be better than the highline in that role due to it still being a few lbs lighter. It kind of depends on what you already have, and avoiding too much overlap.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Gruntled said:


> The cake, according to your requirements for cake-taking, must therefore go to the La Bruja.
> It is THE most laterally stiff FR frame (that's what Sherwood Gibson at Ventana does best), and weighs in at 32.9lb with 7" front and rear, dual ply 2.7" Minions and tubes, with ISCG tabs and a 1.5"HT. Like you I have some DT 5.1D rims on XT hubs, these make the bike 1lb lighter but I prefer running my heavier Easton Havoc wheelset. Coil shock on the way, will increase weight to 33.1lb. With the DT Swiss on it that would come in at 32.1lb with coil shock. But I'll keep my Havocs on.
> 
> Yep, me and my bloody La Bruja.


If that's the case then I would assume my Rune should weight in much less than my estimate. My frame and fork are lighter than yours by several lbs, and I have single wall tires, with a pretty light parts kit. I find my hope hub/dt rim combo to work really well -granted I have a full on DH rig for DH as well.

As an all rounder, 6" is enough I think. And, I would be supprised if your La Bruja was even noticably stiffer than my Rune - there is ZERO flex in this bike because of the style bushings it uses. It's rock solid, as you say.

I'd take the Rune VP style linkage as well, over the faux bar linkage of the La Bruja.


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

Gruntled said:


> Correction in progress. The swingarm has a bend at the BB end, like this ___/
> Now go play with some sticks and a pencil and see how you can make it move through different parts of the arc by changing the point and angle of the bend in the swingarm. Fascinating stuff eh?
> 
> Wow, it moves out and up, then up, then in and up. Wow. Pure goddam rocketscience, Mr. Mannil


Doesn't matter how many times you bend your swing arm (unless it bends in use  ) draw a line between the pivot and the axel, and that is the "effective" swing arm.

But you can make it go out and up and in kinda in a circular motion.


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## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

Here is the other spectrum of the Bottle Rocket. I would agree that the BR is a very versitle bike. I love the BR and my other bikes are jealous.......:thumbsup:


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## Gruntled (Jul 7, 2008)

essenmeinstuff said:


> Doesn't matter how many times you bend your swing arm (unless it bends in use  ) draw a line between the pivot and the axel, and that is the "effective" swing arm.
> 
> But you can make it go out and up and in kinda in a circular motion.


Exactly. If the straight line between the pivot and the axle is below horizontal, the wheel will move away from the bike until this line is horizontal, then it obviously moves in towards the bike.

What do you believe are the drawbacks and benefits of the type of wheel travel I have over the highline's path which gives a longer as opposed to shorter, wheel base?


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## jp3d (Oct 9, 2004)

Pedaling efficiency = marketing hype. Get something without excessive chain growth and a head angle of 69degrees or slacker and go ride.


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## penfuin (Oct 1, 2007)

what about the slayer ss. would that work for an all around bike. i havent read much about them.


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

*Knolly Knolly Knolly*

Delirium-T

Tough
Pedals Well
Stiff

michael


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## somaestudios (Oct 5, 2007)

Vote for the Versus Blitz too amazing bike!!


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## nickgto (Dec 29, 2005)

For the last time REIGN X ALL THE WAAYYY!!!


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## blackprophet19 (Apr 18, 2008)

c-dale moto


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## rideak (Jul 24, 2006)

The Nomad would be a sick bike. My bottle rocket kills everything pretty well. although mine isnt the best climber with a coil on the year. My Prophet Mx climbs better and can still handle a lot. and the specialized enduros from 2 years back i are a great all around bike too. not the enduro SL though that couldnt really handle those drops.


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## blackprophet19 (Apr 18, 2008)

sodak06 said:


> Here is the other spectrum of the Bottle Rocket. I would agree that the BR is a very versitle bike. I love the BR and my other bikes are jealous.......:thumbsup:


thats a sick BR:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## GiantCHaDSTeR (Oct 16, 2006)

nickgto said:


> For the last time REIGN X ALL THE WAAYYY!!!


 this is soo gay dude! keep doing it! :thumbsup:


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## nickgto (Dec 29, 2005)

GiantCHaDSTeR said:


> this is soo gay dude! keep doing it! :thumbsup:


Sorry but I just can't help myself.

For the last time REIGN X ALL THE WAAYYY!!!!!!


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

Nicolai Helius FR.. does everything from all dayers to full on brake cooking Alps DH riding. Done my fair share of big jumps with it to.


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## swaussie (Jul 23, 2007)

What about the Bionicons? I havent heard or read much about them but the idea seems pretty solid, push a button and it tranforms from a climber to a downhill bike. 

Does anyone have any more info on how these bikes work in the real world? Are they up for serious downhill or is it just a gimmick?


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## bountainmike (Mar 18, 2004)

Reign X ftw


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## ikilledkenny2 (Sep 30, 2006)

Nomad with out a question


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## kix12 (Jul 29, 2006)

*Wow!*

KARVE, can you please post more pictures of your bike. It is bloody awesome! And also what cranks and bashring are those? thanks.


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

kix12 said:


> KARVE, can you please post more pictures of your bike. It is bloody awesome! And also what cranks and bashring are those? thanks.


Cheers dude.. it was a bit of a project in the early part of the year.

Build history and a loads of pics here

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=378739

close up of the cranks on page 3.. cranks are Race Face Atlas Silver.. bash is a really cheap one I bought from here http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=6246 had to do a bit of fileing to make it fit. i bought it cos it looked cool but it works really well too.


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