# eMTB vs Analog data comparison



## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

For those wondering how a traditional bike compares to an eMTB over the same course, I put this together. Same route, same rider, similar conditions, ridden about a week apart. Yes, there's a slight difference in distance, because I forgot to include a small extra loop of gravel bikepath along the way on the analog bike.

The route was probably 80% easy to intermediate singletrack with maybe 20% paved and gravel connector sections.

Pace was what I would call a "fast recreational", about 70% of max effort for the distance, slowing down for blind corners, yielding to other trail users.

The analog bike is a 27.5 wheel full rigid steel frame and fork with a flat bar and 1x12.

The electric is a class 1 full suspension with 150/150 travel, 27.5, and 1x10. It's Brose motor has 4 assist levels, and I left it set on 3, or "sport" for the duration of the ride, which about the most power I'm comfortable using on trails.

Rider - middle aged, 210 pounds, 30+ years experience.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Why are you so worried about trying to "prove" riding your ebike is ok? No one cares, just go ride.

And if you're going to insist on calling a bicycle "analog", I'll come up with an equally stupid term for ebike and start using it.


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## p1nhead (Sep 3, 2013)

chazpat said:


> And if you're going to insist on calling a bicycle "analog", I'll come up with an equally stupid term for ebike and start using it.


What kind of term could you use for a bike that has a motor? 

As an electrical engineer, though, I have to say that I despise this "analog bike" term. It's a horrendously poor analogy to electronics and perversion of that term. But, I suppose calling it a non motorized bike doesn't really fly, does it?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Would be interesting if the rides included power data.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> Would be interesting if the rides included power data.


They do. Or do you mean separate rider and motor data?


.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

p1nhead said:


> What kind of term could you use for a bike that has a motor?
> 
> As an electrical engineer, though, I have to say that I despise this "analog bike" term. It's a horrendously poor analogy to electronics and perversion of that term. But, I suppose calling it a non motorized bike doesn't really fly, does it?


I too hate "analog bike"

Trying to get Bio-bike to take, not a lot of luck.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

_CJ said:


> They do. Or do you mean separate rider and motor data?



Just rider data. The power numbers you posted are just estimates and don't differentiate between rider and bike on the ebike.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)




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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

If you’re trying to prove that a bicycle and an electric motor bike give you almost the same workout, then why even have the electric motor bike?


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## p1nhead (Sep 3, 2013)

LMN said:


> Trying to get Bio-bike to take, not a lot of luck.


I could do bio bike. That's a vast improvement over analog.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

I don't get it. An e-bike let you go 30% faster for the same effort? And to be blunt, a rigid bike vs an ebike with 150mm isn't exactly an apples and apples comparison. 
I've said it before



Mudguard said:


> That's how I did my test. First hill climb on my bike. Second hill climb on the ebike at _same _speed. Heart rate averaged 20% lower.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Definition of ANALOG


of, relating to, or being a mechanism or device in which information is represented by continuously variable physical quantities; of or relating to an analog computer; having both hour and minute hands… See the full definition




www.merriam-webster.com





"Definition of _analog_
d*: *not digital *: *not computerized"

Call it whatever you want. I find Flintstone to be more descriptive, but it might be seen as a derisive term by some.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> Just rider data. The power numbers you posted are just estimates and don't differentiate between rider and bike on the ebike.


yeah, that would be interesting, but far beyond the equipment I have available, and not really the point of the comparison

We constantly hear the cry of people calling them motorbikes, claiming ridiculous speeds, or making claims about how much power they generate. This data represents the macro view, with the most important numbers being average speed, and average watts, during an average "fast recreational" ride. To suggest class 1 eMTBs need to be treated as something other than a standard MTB is patently ridiculous, and this data proves it, imho.

And no, my rigid steel analog vs 150/150 eMTB isn't exactly apples to apples, but those are the bikes I have. And if a 150/150 analog bike were used, the numbers would likely be even closer because the downhill speeds of the analog would have been faster.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Like the OP I have 30+ years of cycling experience - and I want to add that eMTBs are really fun to ride! I challenge any experienced cyclist _not to smile_ the first time they turn the cranks of an eMTB. But to the topic at hand, I believe it is easy for skilled riders to select the power settings to get the workout that they want. Best of both worlds, right?


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## p1nhead (Sep 3, 2013)

_CJ said:


> Definition of ANALOG
> 
> 
> of, relating to, or being a mechanism or device in which information is represented by continuously variable physical quantities; of or relating to an analog computer; having both hour and minute hands… See the full definition
> ...


Analog electronics are still electronics, though. Your cellphone only has 1 battery, but it has both analog and digital circuits in it.

So if I can call it what I want, I'll call it a non-motorized bike. Since it's both correct and unambiguous ;-)


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I call my ebike an ebike.

What do I call my human powered bike?
A mountain bike.

A mountain bike is not an ebike and an ebike is not a mountain bike.

So the next logical question is how do we differentiate between an ebike made to be ridden on pavement vs an ebike designed to ride on dirt trails?

Road ebike.
Off-road ebike.

Done.
=sParty


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

_CJ said:


> yeah, that would be interesting, but far beyond the equipment I have available, and not really the point of the comparison
> 
> We constantly hear the cry of people calling them motorbikes, claiming ridiculous speeds, or making claims about how much power they generate. This data represents the macro view, with the most important numbers being average speed, and average watts, during an average "fast recreational" ride. To suggest class 1 eMTBs need to be treated as something other than a standard MTB is patently ridiculous, and this data proves it, imho.




I just thought it would be interesting to include that info. No offense but I don't think the test you did proves much of anything. I can go easy on one ride and hard on the next riding the same bike and get 2 completely different results.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

_CJ said:


> "Definition of _analog_
> d*: *not digital *: *not computerized"
> 
> Call it whatever you want. I find Flintstone to be more descriptive, but it might be seen as a derisive term by some.


Do ebikes use switched reluctance motors? Otherwise, they are electro-mechanical devices rather than digital. They may use digital circuits but so do ice motorcycles and cars, which I don't think we consider as being digital vs earlier cars being analog.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Interesting data. Thanks for sharing and putting some effort to build a comparison. I ride a dirt bike also known as a motorcycle. The name should be changed to enginecycle instead! Motors typically run on electricity and engines run on combustion. Then again, I'm just having my fun here with the interchangeability of terms


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## Juansan (Dec 30, 2020)

Vinyl record's with an Analog Tube Amp sound better then Digital. There's that.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

chazpat said:


> Why are you so worried about trying to "prove" riding your ebike is ok? No one cares, just go ride.
> 
> And if you're going to insist on calling a bicycle "analog", I'll come up with an equally stupid term for ebike and start using it.


How about: not—non-electric-and-not-motor-counting-but-somehow-still-motor-assisted-2-wheel-machines? That should be about equivalently grating to “analog”


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

bio-bike


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## 749800 (Jul 14, 2013)

Are the digital bike data sampled above the Nyquist frequency to avoid aliasing artifacts?


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Sorry guys, but I can tell this thread will spiral out of control, locking thread.


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