# body length ratio... Frame size



## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

Hi all, new to the group. I guess I fit in this section.

On the search for a bike/frame that fits, been 20yrs since I last bought a bike and noticed a lot has changed, for the better I suppose.

Ok, details. I'm 6'4" but with a wingspan of 6'2", adding to the messed up ratios is from floor to greater trochanter is 41", yup nearly 54% of my height is in my legs. short torso and short for my height arm length usually means that I'm folded up when trying to ride. 

Who makes a frame that is better suited to long legged tall riders? Also as noted in my other thread in the 29er section I'm not a lightweight, float between 270~300 depending on where I'm at in the lifting season. Now at mid 40's I'm going to hold steady between 265~275 and not bulk up like I used to. joints don't like the decades of power-lifting anymore. 

I've got my eye on a couple different ones but want to make sure they fit what I need. 
Guerrilla Gravity pistol
Knolly
Norco fluid 3
specialized stumpjumper 29
Giant trance
surly krampus
Really lean towards FS if at all possible as I do want a more 'cushy' ride these days. Friend has a bunch of Treks, fuel 8 and an 1120, XL frames. They fit OK, the 1120 was way to harsh a ride, and the Fuel 8 fitment was OK but the rear shock was setup for his weight and sagg'd a lot. 

I really don't want to spend beyond $3k all in. No idea where that leaves me when looking at frames and building from there if that's what needs to be because it seems that out of the box bikes might not exist to fit me.


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## pctloper (Jan 3, 2016)

You either XL or maybe XXL-----the only way to determine is to get on a few and see---there are a few threads on the forum on this topic--you will soon find what is comfortable and what is not.

I'd also suggest getting advice here on suspension as your weight may put some options off the table----also been threads on this recently.

Those bikes are pretty different in your list-----perhaps you may want to determine your terrain and what works there to trim the list

While I am not as tall (6 foot) but have a 34.5 inseam so a short torso----for fit this causes 2 issues for me.
1. A smallish frame results in a ton of seat tube height to get to seat height--slackens seat angle and may have too large a drop to the bars.
2. A largish frame solves #1 but may have too long a reach.
I found a few bikes that just did not fit---Ripley for example and a few that did FuelEX and Pivot 429Trail------but had to ride them to find what works.



I find I


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

I'm looking for what leaves me with a "Jack of all trades, master of none" bike. Seems that in the last couple of decades bikes have specialized into distinct categories. I suppose that's a good thing, but I'm not interested in owning a fleet of bikes. One of my friends has that, a fleet of treks depending on the ride he's going to tackle... Yeah I'm not into spending $50k on bikes. I've got other expensive vices already...

The fuel 8, didn't have me folded up. It's just outside the budget I'm willing to spend. Fuel ex5 is in budget, just can't find one. Also not in a hurry to buy, rather research it a bit and make sure I find the right frame.


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## brawlo (Mar 13, 2012)

For you, I’d be paying particular attention to stack figures. You probably want to shortlist the frames that are the highest in the front(highest stack numbers), and then look at frames that might have shorter reach figures. Then also consider that there are various avenues for you to increase your bar height on top of that. You’re kind of lucky in the fact that a lot of frames are potentially suited to you. I’m the opposite at 6’5” and long arms and want long reach, and there are not many of those frames around


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

Thanks for direction on that. Filtering down...
Now to decide... HT or FS.. other bugger is actually finding something in stock or available... That's proving to be the real problem.


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## pctloper (Jan 3, 2016)

I agree on stack height-------for some reason these have been getting shorter which causes issues for those with your body type----I just yesterday put a 38 mm bar on my Pivot 429Trail to see if I like this better than the 15MM bar-----caused by long legs and then having the bar lower than we like. Will ride next week to see.


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## Racecar (Oct 10, 2019)

I'm 6'-2 250 and was shopping for a hardtail last fall. I tired the stand over height of many bikes and that directed me to a Large frame. I rode several bikes, different brands, but when I finally got on an XL frame, that was it, I bought it. The bike shop sales guy is your height. He rides XXL frames. I'm not sure who makes those, but from my experience, I certainly would suggest that you try as many brands as possible. I wanted to try an XL to see if it works for me, or felt too big. It definitely worked. You are definitely XL, but every brand has different feel.


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

Not many mfg uses xxl sizing... 
I took some time and dropped various frames into CAD.. along with a stick figure of myself. 

Narrowed down to...
Pedalhead
Krampus
Trek fuel
Stumpjumper
Norco fluid

Wide range for sure...
Really leaning towards krampus... 29+ has it's appeal. 

Finding them to test ride.... Yeah so far no luck...


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## Ryder1 (Oct 12, 2006)

Trek Stache 21.5 new or used, ibis Ripmo AF, Tallboy 4 alum, used Fuse with a beefy fork.

A low stack can be solved with 20mm of stem spacers and an $80 Deity riser bar. I'd be more concerned about seat tube length and actual seat tube angle, especially on a FS bike like the Stumpjumper or Tallboy. You're going to be running massive amounts of seat post extension, way above the front stack height (where the frame's effective seat tube angle is measured) and many FS bikes have very slack actual seat tube angles, ~67*. You'll end up with your saddle over the rear hub, have a long reach to the bars when seated, and put a lot of stress on the seat post and seat tube. FS bikes like the Trail Pistol or ibis RIPMO have steeper actual seat tube angles, so less of a problem. Most hardtails also don't have nearly the same problem. Slamming the saddle forward helps but won't always be enough if you have a 41" bike inseam (mine is 37" and it's still an issue).


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

How does a kona satori work for you?


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## brawlo (Mar 13, 2012)

Blathma said:


> Thanks for direction on that. Filtering down...
> Now to decide... HT or FS.. other bugger is actually finding something in stock or available... That's proving to be the real problem.


I've been a HT man for a long time now. I've entertained the thought of going FS but could never justify the cost for the kind of riding I do on groomed or well used trails. I live on a rural property and since Covid hit and I was working from home for a while I decided to finally fulfill my promise to myself of roughing in a track at the rear of our place. Since it is not a groomed or well used trail I can definitely see the sense in going FS now, especially for the ascent which I haven't worked out a trail for yet. I've been browsing FS frames for a week now, and since finishing off the track on the weekend and riding it Sunday evening for the first time, I've been pricing FS :lol:


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## FASTFAT (Oct 22, 2015)

you short guys got it easy..


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

Update...
Got on a couple lists... Waited it out... And got lucky..
XL krampus, first loser. So rigid. Can always upgrade the front fork, but right now the 3" with slightly lower psi is working great. 

Lbs either didn't cut the head tube or surly is making them loooong. Using 75mm of spacers, adjusting the seat, etc... Finally a ride that fits and feels like I'm pedaling a cruiser.

It's wild how the 29+ just rides over everything.. trail to hardpack to gravel onto loomy dirt... Flies right over. 

Probably going to get the tumbleweed persuader bar for the long XC rides. Also need to get bigger pedals, crank bros stamp 7 should do the trick.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I'm curious, what measurement (millimeters) do you get when you measure from hip to shoulder socket:


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

Roughly 600mm, standing... Why?


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Just wondering how much it differed from me. I'm 5' 7" and I measure 410mm or so. Was wondering why reach numbers only increased by 25mm or so per size, while seat tube lengths often increased by 40mm or so.


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

Varaxis said:


> Just wondering how much it differed from me. I'm 5' 7" and I measure 410mm or so. Was wondering why reach numbers only increased by 25mm or so per size, while seat tube lengths often increased by 40mm or so.


WAG, pedal to seat is a function of one parameter, legs. Whilst reach is 2, trunk and wingspan. But that's just my guess.


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## Ryder1 (Oct 12, 2006)

Varaxis said:


>


When this guy bends his knees, more of his torso will move rearward of the BB. Seated, I have at least 200mm of torso length that is rearward of the BB. A steep STA can mitigate this "lost reach" number, but only so much.


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

Varaxis said:


> I'm curious, what measurement (millimeters) do you get when you measure from hip to shoulder socket:


This photo could have saved me buying Larges for 3 years when I really needed an XL due to ape like build.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

What was the problem with your large bikes, that has to do with the ape index? If you were going by feel, testing the same model in L and XL, I would've suggested that you go with your gut, or try a different model.

Might be that the problem was more about being a little excited to come to a final decision, without exploring and researching enough, and accepting a compromise that later was regretted.

Bound to be some models in XL that would've agreed with your feelings and gut, though I would say that getting an XL for the sake of some ape index belief would need some validating first... would be regrettable if it was just some superstition.


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

Varaxis said:


> What was the problem with your large bikes, that has to do with the ape index? If you were going by feel, testing the same model in L and XL, I would've suggested that you go with your gut, or try a different model.


Really is about LBSs that make you stand over a bike and go "that fits you" and off you ride, combined with telling myself that the bikes fine and being uncomfortable was due to lack of skill/experience.

Wasn't until I started asking to ride others bike when researching a long travel bike did I realize that I felt more comfortable on a strangers XL than my own bikes. Trying to understand the why, came to conclusion I was not able to naturally get into my attack/athletic position on a cramped M/L frames I kept getting put on. Ie I feel good IN the bike than ON the bike. Seems like reach was the number that unlocked this for me.

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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Sounds like a case of "persevering through adversity" and optimistically figuring that things will get better and glorifying the idea of being better as a person for toughing it out for the sake of perseverance.

These things often turn out to be a systematic problem, which in this case is the lack of care and attention paid to fitting. XD

You saying you were forced into a rearward position because of short reach? Trying to see what position you'd settle in from your urge to be comfortable, when faced with a cramped bike.










This kind of looks close to the universal athletic position. I'd normally consider it as rearward, since the hips are behind the BB, but from the look of his arms, it doesn't seem like he's rigidly connected to the point that the jump's ramp bucks him back or whatever. I'd give it a passing grade. Was your position worse than this?

P.S. Not trying to act like an expert. Just trying to confirm if I understand things thoroughly


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

That looks similar to how I fit. Felt like I behind BB and not over it. This made the front be way too unweighted so I’d try hanging over the front to keep front planted but then I had very little room to work the bars. My ignorance left me not knowing it could be better. Just thought that was mountain biking.


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

Here's how's I've got the bike setup. Thankfully the lbs didn't cut down the fork, which allows me to raise the handlebars enough to not be folded over. Honestly if the frame could be a touch larger and the top tube longer with a couple more degrees angle... That'd be perfect... No such thing exists though, short of a custom frame. I'm only 6'4" but majority of my height is in my legs, friend of mine is 6'10", his inseam is only 2" greater then mine... Stretch out my torso and I'd be an easy 6'8"... As it is my lower ribs run into my hips, keeping me from folding over to touch my toes, that and my wingspan is shorter then my height.... What's that? Negative ape index?

Krampus XL frame, 75mm spacers under bar. Ideally I'd like to raise the seat another 1.5"... But that just puts the bars out of whack... For now it's a good compromise.


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## Dawgprimo (Mar 7, 2004)

I don't have your problem as I am the opposite way.
6' 7 with a 36 inseam and a 7 foot wing span.
However, looking at your problem.........
If you lift up your seat another 1.5 inches, which I think you would like to do?
The front end is too low.....correct?

I just built up a bike last year, which was interesting because of my size I don't fit to the normal build (Compared to an average person) and have to do some interesting things to make up for what the frame can't do.
Not sure if that makes sense........
Longer Stem then average- 90 mm
Lifting my Stem up on the uncut steer tube, with spacers.
Uncut steer tube.....a must! 
Longer travel fork which lifts up the BB and makes it a bit harder to climb. (Not that I notice!)
But I love my build and it has been awesome but I was worried when I started to build it up.

I built up a Knolly Warden 2020 if you were wondering.
Maybe there is a rigid fork that is a bit longer but that is just an idea.

That is one of my biggest complaints when you don't fit the mold and when you start looking at the numbers, it becomes more confusing then when you started!
That is all I got!

Cheers,
K


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

Well, had to raise the seat. Knees were not liking the lower position. Left the bars where they're at, not to bad actually. 
Toying with getting tumbleweeds persuader bar for touring rides.


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## Dawgprimo (Mar 7, 2004)

I do use the Jones bar with the 2 inch rise, on another bike.
Not sure if that would work for you or not?
Also, Chromag makes mountain bike bars with a 2 inch rise.


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

The bike came with the salsa rustler bar, 750mm Which is very nice, I think 800 or so would be perfect. So I'm on the hunt for W I D E bars... There's a couple out there I've found, whatbars great resource for sizes. Sure wide can slow down steering rates, and though I can tell, it's also less twitchy.


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

I was mistaken... Double checked, bars are 810mm hmmm and without markings, no idea what bars surly shipped. Not complaining they are nice. Given the shortages on parts, etc.. I wonder what's different from listed parts... Hadn't thought to check. Hmmm

Across the shoulders I'm ~24" or ~610mm the current 810 is good, but when I'm off seat or climbing a touch wider would be nice. And yeah, I have to turn sideways to get thru most all doorways, constantly hitting the old elbows.

Whiskey no9 riser, or persuader, also really digging the surely sunrise.


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