# Am I crazy to buy a tandem?



## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Here's the deal. I ride a lot. 4 or 5 days a week, close to 100 miles, between road and mtb. My wife does not ride but really, REALLY needs an active "sport" of some sort before she gets to a point where it will be too hard to start. We're both 54. Truthfully, she doesn't have a whole lot of coordination. She hikes occasionally but usually only when I prompt it and when I hit the local trail, she'll catch a 3.5 mile loop, sometimes more. It's tough to meld our 2 activities together sometimes as either I get cut short or she'll have to wait for me. She's never been a big bike rider. I don't think it was a "thing" when she was growing up. We have ridden bikes together and she is not terribly sure of herself when doing so. The last bike outing we did a couple years ago was on a near flat bike path to the ocean and just a few miles. Things were okay till near the end when for some reason, she just drifted into me as I was riding alongside at about 5mph and rather then simply steering away to her left, just gave up trying to even control the bike, screamed and took us both down in the dirt! :lol: It was a true WTF moment! I didn't pursue her riding skills improvement from that point on. 

Pedalling is such a great means to fitness and I'm super concerned about her fitness now and into the future. She rides the recumbent trainer I have but like me, hates the monotony that goes with it. This is where the wheels are turning in my head and wondering if a tandem might be a way for me to get her on a bike safely where she doesn't have to worry about navigating, etc. She can just enjoy the workout outdoors while we hit the country back roads and maybe even a buff flowy trail that we have in our myriad of trail networks. I've been watching craigslist every day for years and tandems are not frequent in my area but a month ago, someone had a very decent KHS for a few hundred bucks. That had me thinking but I missed it because it was priced so low and she wasn't home for me to size her up for the stoker cockpit. All of a sudden, there are 3 Cannondales, 2 road type and 1 mtb type, that would all fit us both, and 1 Santana that I think is too big for her. This has stoked my furnace again and the cash outlay would not be so bad if things didn't workout. I'd probably get most of my money back on a sale. She's willing to try. Other than some serious reading on tandems and "Captain's / Stoker etiquette" I have know nothing about tandem riding. I recall riding one solo when I was much younger and that was it. I'm not afraid to jump on and go.

Those of you that are doing this...am I batshit crazy for doing this? I'd love to see some"outsider" thoughts on the idea.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Riding tandem is a great equalizer for my wife and I and I understand what you are trying to do. Don't skimp on the bike; you have a lot working against you and you want her to have the best experience possible. $5,000 for a bike Ventana el Conquistador - Value Build | MTB Tandems is not an extraordinary outlay when compared to a: speedboat, quad, motorcycle, camper, gym membership, bypass surgery....

I hope you and your wife try it and you have a blast


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

The Ventana's are very nice. I have a couple locals here that I come across on the trails that ride Ventanas, one looks a whole lot like yours. The Cannondale MT800 that is available is a rigid and all 3 available are likely to go <$1000. My thought would be do the MT800 rigid and throw some road friendly tires on it and see how we do with the plan. If we're successful and enjoy it, I wouldn't think twice about going big with a new(er), more modern bike. 

One of the quotes I read was something to the effect of Riding a Tandem with your wife will take you immediately to wherever your marriage is headed...good or bad...it will get you there fast! :lol: I can bet there's a lot of truth to that so I have to go into this with that knowledge. The other poignant thought I read was that "...the stoker can do NOTHING wrong!" It's all on the Captain. More good advice, I think.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Oh My Sack! said:


> ... Cannondale MT800


 That was our second tandem... 
.


Oh My Sack! said:


> Riding a Tandem with your wife will take you immediately to wherever your marriage is headed...good or bad...it will get you there fast!


 Yes indeed! I think that might have been ds2199 or Okayfine?



Oh My Sack! said:


> "...the stoker can do NOTHING wrong!" It's all on the Captain. More good advice, I think.


 again.... too true!

In all seriousness; things I remind myself of to keep it fun for my partner:

Stop, turn around and go back when my stoker makes any suggestion, including body language or noises, that she wants to do so. 
Do not hesitate or express disappointment when this happens.
Don't hesitate to stop and walk, stop and rest, regardless of the reason given. 
Don't argue if the reasoning doesn't make sense.... In my case, explanations that seem nonsensical to me usually means my stoker is uncomfortable but doesn't know why, or, most often, doesn't want to disappoint me by saying so.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

Oh My Sack! said:


> The Ventana's are very nice. I have a couple locals here that I come across on the trails that ride Ventanas, one looks a whole lot like yours. The Cannondale MT800 that is available is a rigid and all 3 available are likely to go <$1000. My thought would be do the MT800 rigid and throw some road friendly tires on it and see how we do with the plan. If we're successful and enjoy it, I wouldn't think twice about going big with a new(er), more modern bike.
> 
> One of the quotes I read was something to the effect of Riding a Tandem with your wife will take you immediately to wherever your marriage is headed...good or bad...it will get you there fast! :lol: I can bet there's a lot of truth to that so I have to go into this with that knowledge. The other poignant thought I read was that "...the stoker can do NOTHING wrong!" It's all on the Captain. More good advice, I think.


I think you are on the right track.

The key is to start slow. If you are fit and used to riding but your wife is not. TAKE IT SLOW.

I can't take credit for coining that saying, but I use it frequently when people think they are really smart and tell us that we are riding a "divorce machine". I tell them it is not that for us, but it can be. Then I go on to say that riding a tandem will certainly get your relationship going in the direction that it would be anyway. I think my latest phrase is that it is a "relationship accelerator".

It works for us. We ride at least 90% of our miles on a tandem. With the exception of my cyclocross racing, I don't really ride much on my own. It really is pretty awesome that my wife even wants to join me on the tandem adventures that we do! I'm pretty lucky.

That Cannondale option might be a good place to start, but I'd stay on pavement first and maybe venture out into dirt roads if all goes well. Remember, she can't see the bumps and she's sitting directly over the back wheel with no suspension. So be conscious of that.

Good luck and keep us posted!!


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## TandemBear (Aug 18, 2013)

*No, you aren't crazy.*

You're venturing into some potentially very rewarding territory! Good on ya!

However, you must understand the old tandem adage: a tandem will either cement or destroy your marriage!

In other words, riding tandem could be the best - or worst - experience of your lives.

The easiest way to test the waters is by renting a tandem and see how you jive together. Some couples simply aren't meant to ride tandem together.

I'll also add that riding a tandem isn't simply jumping on and just going. There's a TON of stuff to know about the dynamics of a couple on a tandem - both physical and mental. And they're VERY important! Santana has an entire tandem test ride program in place to introduce the new couple to riding tandem. It's pretty extensive. You might benefit highly from test riding a bike or two at a certified tandem retailer. Perhaps do that first, and then rent for the day or weekend.

The whole idea is to make the initial experiences really positive. You appear to fit the typical couple mold: super-psyched, bike-riding husband and captain interested in getting his casual cyclist wife stoker on a tandem. The instances of an aggressive tandem captain scaring the crap out of a timid stoker are many. This is oftentimes the death knell of the first-time couple riding tandem.

And this is just ON ROAD! Mountain biking presents WAY more opportunity to lose the trust of your stoker. Start on the road - and a quiet road, or better yet, a separated paved bike path where the only concern is you two riding together. No cars, trucks, speeding oncoming traffic or any other obstacles to a positive experience on the bike.

Now I don't mean to imply that a new couple must purchase and ride on road only. If you plan to mountain bike, get a mountain tandem. But I'd start your rides together on road. Put some slicks or semi-slicks on the bike for the first few months. Get used to each other on road before venturing off road.

My wife and I started on a road tandem simply by accident. A warranty road frame in the shop happened to fit me and my wife. After four years of road riding, we bought a mountain tandem, assuming we'd keep to fire roads. Well, that lasted about five minutes into our first ride. We were off on the single track right away and haven't looked back. But again, that was after we had four years of road tandeming under our belts before mountain biking. And I had raced on and off road for almost ten years beforehand and my wife had already done five trips to Moab with me mountain biking. So by the time we started riding aggressive off road on the tandem, my wife had already done a lot of it on her half (single) mountain bike.

I'm sure you can find ample online introductory information for those new to tandems. I found this on Santana's site:
Getting Started

That said, take a gander at this forum for some additional information on advanced tandem technique:
Advanced Tandem Technique - Bike Forums

Good luck and I hope you two are putting in lots of miles together very soon!


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

ds2199 said:


> ... "relationship accelerator".


Brilliant, hilarious and spot on :thumbsup:


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Good info guys! Thanks.

This was one of my first bits of reading and I can easily subscribe to what this guy has to say about it. It's actually how I presented this whole insane idea to my wife, too. Hopefully giving her some encouragement that I wouldn't be going "full aggro" on her during the rides.

The Proper Method

My intent would be to stay on the road. No way I'd consider introducing dirt till even I had tons of experience on this thing. I get my dirt riding in regardless so it's not something I jones to do on a rigid tandem.

Today I went and looked at the first of the 3 Cannondales and probably, realistically, the one I would most want because it is a rigid mtb model where the others are road exclusive builds. As I mentioned above, it's a MT800 with a Fatty fork on it. The bike has ONE scratch on the top-tube near the headset. Otherwise it is like brand new, polished shiny and bright. This, like a lot of bikes and probably tandems, is a garage queen. It has near zero miles on it and they're the original owners. It has full Shimano XT components and Sugoi aluminum cranksets. It's a Lg/Sm and the Stoker has a suspension seatpost. It's exactly the size we need. It's running the original Continental nobby tires which I would likely change out to a like-sized road tread keeping the volume for some suspension on our lees than perfect country back roads.

Right now, we're at $850 in the negotiation. It's my turn and I'm holding back for a bit. What ya'll think of that price? My risk is we decide it's not for us. I think I can get my coin back on this one, maybe take a small hit at best. The risk is worth it, to me because if it works out, my wife gets some outdoor exercise and leg strength.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

Oh My Sack! said:


> Good info guys! Thanks.
> 
> This was one of my first bits of reading and I can easily subscribe to what this guy has to say about it. It's actually how I presented this whole insane idea to my wife, too. Hopefully giving her some encouragement that I wouldn't be going "full aggro" on her during the rides.
> 
> ...


At that price point, you would likely be able to get rid of it for what you paid for it...

Not too much to lose.

You only live once! Give it a roll and see what happens!


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

That was our second bike, after a Santana Rio. It was a big improvement over the Rio. Can't see a down-side to that deal. --- If I'm not mistaken, this groupo is better than the newer model, (on the MT1000?)

I really liked the Continental Marathon for tires on paved/dirt trails.

I cringe imagining an inexperienced team in traffic. FWIW, I will offer a minority report concerning road/off road. We are lucky to have a substantial system of wide, paved trails along the canals throughout Yuma, so can ride off-road without the challenges of singletrack whenever we want. This kind of riding seems ideal for your purposes. You can stop whenever you want with no danger or inconvenience to anyone else. You can turn around anywhere, anytime. If you fall down, you won't likely get run over... Of course, you may not have this option available... my two cents...


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

We live on the edge of smaller town on the central coast. I do quite a bit of road riding. My neighborhood itself is very low traffic away from town. Really the only traffic we have are neighbors coming and going. It's a one way in/out neighborhood. Starting here will be great then as we get our bearings, we're an easy out to what is essentially ag and vineyards where traffic is typically light and even at that, we have access to even more very minimal travelled roads all within a ride from home so transporting this pig will not be an issue till sometime down the road. I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it. After some time, I can see us hitting the flowy trails we have in our network. One of them is Oats Peak at Montana de Oro State Park. Hans Rey just did a bit on it in MBA. It's a buff, flowy machine cut single track with a 5% avg up for about 5.5 miles. The down is hoot, too. I have been hitting it a lot on rigid single-speed. It'll be perfect fun for a rigid tandem, I think. In due time, though. Baby steps! :lol:

If this all pops tomorrow, I'll post some pics.


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## ebnelson (Oct 30, 2006)

We may be headed out that way for a couple of days next month with our Ventana 29er. My dad has property adjacent to Montana de Oro SP and I've been wanting to get out there to check out the condition of the access road. Plenty of nice unpaved roads to get started tandem riding out there.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Go for it!

We've had an MT1000 since 1997 (the same one). For quite awhile we rode it often. My wife and I had to figure out what works for both of us. We compromised on cadence, distance, terrain... and we tried many different routes and types of riding to see what we liked best as a team. I would say it brought a huge sense of accomplishment to both of us. And yes, we started out easy. I did push her once in awhile, and she typically responded positively. We've also both regretted certain route choices, but that's part of the fun (really).

I always told her "pedal hard enough to get _you_ up the hill - I will get me and the bike up the hill".

Since then, her fitness is better and she is more confident on her own than she was, plus our daughter is getting up to speed as well, so we've been riding singles, but the tandem is still there if we decide to go for some extended mileage beyond her single bike range.

-F


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Oh My Sack! said:


> She's willing to try.


I think this sums up the vast majority of new stokers. That said, if she is willing to try, you have everything to gain.

If you end up with the C'dale you discussed above, and the bike does not have a good suspension seatpost for the stoker, you should buy one (Thudbuster is popular here) before setting out on the first ride.

Your whole job is to make your stoker trust you so that she'll get back on for the next ride. I'm currently writing a tandem book (because I like to write, not because I think it'll sell), and I have chapters all about this topic :thumbsup:


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm frustrated and anxiously in a holding pattern waiting for the owner to reconnect with me to do the transaction. I think they bailed from town as I can't get a response from them by phone or email since early yesterday. I was hoping to have picked it up yesterday early afternoon after I went and took a quick look and ride at one of the other C'dales for sale. I like the build on what happens to be the 2000 year model, the first one I made an offer on. It's all XT. The newer model is Sram X5 and a Med/Sm but sizing would work. Sram is "adequate" at best, IMO. I'm really done with it, though. I'd buy it if it ends up my only option but it wouldn't be long before it was torn off so that's an additional cost consideration. I'm hoping I here from these folks soon so I can get rolling with it.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Okayfine said:


> Your whole job is to make your stoker trust you so that she'll get back on for the next ride. I'm currently writing a tandem book (because I like to write, not because I think it'll sell), and I have chapters all about this topic :thumbsup:


That's cool! I have been sponging a lot from bedtime reading. I have given everything I've read to my wife which really puts me "on the hook" :lol: It's helped as she now understands the situation from 2 perspectives.

I've garnered a lot of good info from one site Gear-To-Go Tandem Bicycles which has a lot of input from Bill McCready from Santana Bikes and there's even some stuff from Sheldon Browne thrown in the mix.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Well, OP, this IS the tandem forum, so....probably not. See what they say on the "Weight weeny" forum!


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Still in the holding pattern today. Going to look at a what appears to be a near perfect Santana Picante. It's set up as a road machine. We'll see.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Geeeeeeez! After all this hoopla, today we're still tandemless. The bike I ultimately wanted (C'dale MT800) and saw a week ago last Wednesday, went sorta MIA. No return calls, no return emails, and this was after I went and saw it and was getting back to them. It stayed listed the whole time. 

I went a seriously considered the Santana but was somewhat turned off by it's modified from Factory MTB as a Road rig. I even looked at a decent, lesser price Yokota dressed with all XT but likely '93-94 era. the other 2 C'Dales for sale were both sold last Friday. I was starting to sweat it a bit.

Anyway, finally this evening I get the call I've been waiting for. The MT800 owner and wife had been vacationing in the boonies and off the grid. I'm going to pick it up and ride it home (5 miles on country backroads) tomorrow afternoon. 

It begins! :lol:


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

:thumbsup: ...


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

BOOM!

GOT IT!

It's like a time capsule from 2008. Virtually unridden, garaged, and one top tube scratch from something during a move to CA.

Got it home and gave it a bath. Much nicer than I expected. I was cleaning the original build grease that was left on. The shifters didn't work right. I had 2 front rings and only 4 in the back. Pulled the shifters apart and cleaned and lubed and then properly adjusted the cables. All XT components work like a fine watch, now. Both seats will be replaced immediately if not sooner. I changed the bars from the flat OEM super narrow bars and 90 stem and put the Truvative riser 640mm bars and a 100 stem that I took off my SS when I got it. Much better.

We've got maybe 3 miles of neighborhood riding, so far. All is well with my Stoker. All the reading definitely paid off from the get-go.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

+1 ...


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## sisu (Sep 16, 2006)

Your stoker needs a better suspension seat post, even if you ride on pristine pavement. Thudbuster is primitive imho, get this instead: http://ridebodyfloat.com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

sisu said:


> Your stoker needs a better suspension seat post, even if you ride on pristine pavement. Thudbuster is primitive imho, get this instead: BodyFloat? by Cirrus Cycles
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting design. I'll keep that in mind. the bike has one installed and like the rest of the bike, it's essentially brand new usage-wise. I just played with the preload adjustment and it seems to function quite well. We're working on getting her situated on an appropriate saddle. I sh*t-canned that hideous Bell barc-a-lounger that had 5" of padding as well as a gel insert on the sit-bone and replaced it with a traditional style seat. We're running up to Art's Cyclery when we get a chance to get her on the Specialized Body Geometry sit measurement device to determine the proper direction to go on sizing. I dropped into Voler.com clothing's office here nearby today. They have a small outlet in their offices where all their seconds from custom work get pitched. Excellent gear where maybe the sublimation might not have lined up or something really unnoticeable. I got her a set of bib shorts with their top-of-line 'Comp' chamois. She was complaining of sit pain when we rode last time and I fully expected that but then I was checking out the chamois in the shorts she had bought some time back for biking and they were absolute junk. Virtually no pad and gathered material where it shouldn't be. Bad stuff so at least now she's got a great set of bibs that we'll couple with a good seat when we find the right combo.


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## sisu (Sep 16, 2006)

Yeah, finding the right saddle is key. A lot of women swear by Terry saddles.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Terry for off-road

Selle Anatomica (and they are heavy) for on road, but be certain to adjust the tension or they are not so good.

Thudbuster LT with the correct bumpers is a good economical seatpost, but on road don't bother unless your roads are junk.

That Cannondale post, while it may move up and down, they are not very good and kind of delayed in how they react to bumps.

FWIW, the MT800 is a great bike, either to keep and ride a long time or just to start and learn on. Yes there are better road and off road tandems, but in the smiles per dollar those machines at the price you paid are hard to beat.

If you do put a fork on one, that vintage of frame is temperamental to anything more than 100 mm of travel. If you can find one, a Dirt Jumper would be a good choice to plug and play. But QR axle mounts and brake posts are getting more difficult to find.


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## 827286 (Aug 15, 2017)

*Yes, tandems are crazy.*

Yes, tandems are crazy. Watch out and plan for parts obsolescence/availability issues. Expect huge depreciation or better yet plan to keep the bike. Get a good bike! Be certain you'll have support. Make sure you'll actually use one unless money is no object. Try tandems out before you buy to see what they and you are all about. Be careful off-road. Be careful on-road. Don't blink. The more tandems the better for tandem lovers' sake! Manufacturing of tandems, and more importantly tandem parts, has been in decline for awhile now. Hopefully the trend does not continue. Be very careful if considering a used bike. It's much riskier than buying single bikes due to the parts issues as well as compounded stresses placed on tandem bikes. Sure we can get a frame or even a rolling bike, but can we keep it rolling is the question. Yes, still crazy, but tandems are awesome imo.


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