# Point out the mistakes that mtn bikers make, or the bad advice/wisdom that they share



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Point out the mistakes that mtn bikers make, or the bad advice/wisdom that they share. The mistakes could be bad habits you commit like being afraid of the front brake, instead overly relying on the rear, or something annoying that others do that peeve you, like littering with something even seemingly harmless like banana peels.

This is a thread about learning from others' mistakes in order to improve ourselves, to be more knowledgeable, upstanding members of society, showing improvement over past generations, and perhaps demonstrating classiness and integrity. There is technically no manual on mtb, just like there's technically no manual on living life. I'm just hoping that enough wisdom could be gathered that we can help prevent others from making the same mistakes over and over.


One mistake I see mtbers make - thinking that plain water, even in large quantities (up to 3L), is enough in the summer heat. I learned that electrolytes (ex. sodium and potassium) are needed to truly rehydrate. Simply 1/2 teaspoon of Morton "Salt Balance", which sodium and potassium at a good ratio, also containing calcium and magnesium (which are also electrolytes that are needed), and 6 teaspoons of regular sugar, which helps with electrolyte absorption (and for calories and taste), will turn a liter of plain water into an endurance sports drink that can combat dehydration.


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## Hooch (Jun 30, 2006)

I ride here in aus where in the summer it can get up to 40 degrees centigrade, always carry a 3l backpack and usually a bottle with electolyses (gubrew normally) last november really hot day in a forest things went bad and i ended up vomiting back up all the water i had consumed during a mtb race, ended up being driven off the hill and into the first aid tend. Not fun. Don't scoff your water down as you risk what i did and losing it all, not good if you are out on a trail.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

I recently realized that I'm too tense while negotiating rocks and roots. Dropping my shoulders and remembering to breath saves energy and allows the bike to move freely beneath me.


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

'subbed, great idea for a thread!

I am guilty of only plain water, I will definitely try something else next ride. 

Personally I have been trying to modulate my breaking better, trying not to break traction with the rear tire (skid), using both front and back to maintain as much momentum as possible.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Water has always been enough for me, until beer.


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## tubbnation (Jul 6, 2015)

Like a lot of us do, when I ride solo, I'm balls-out on trails. If I'm too tired, I'm not riding to the best of my ability. This can lead to an accident.

With this, I ask myself at different times during a solo session, "are you tired, how tired are you, are you riding to the best of your ability" - and if I'm being honest, and am too tired to ride at the best of my ability, I don't gun it for the car, I take it easy getting off the trail so I can then ride tomorrow.

I'm sure I've saved myself from at least one accident by asking myself these three questions.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Taking advice from the internet.

I'm only half joking. There are soooooo many people out there who are maybe afraid of making a mistake...? While there is plenty to learn about MTBing - whether you read it here or in a book, or you hear it at the LBS - there is no substitute for actually riding.

People get impatient because they're not "having the time of their life", but just like anything, it takes practice. It takes training (at least a little). And it takes a WHOLE LOT of experience in various conditions to finally "get it". Read all you want, but don't forget to ride your bike. btw - for these purposes, the bike doesn't matter (not that you should believe that just because it's on the internet).

Be patient.

Go ride more.

-F


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Fleas said:


> Taking advice from the internet.


Haha, so true.... bad advice I hear all the time is how ____ new wheel size or whatever new standard will somehow improve your riding. Sorry but, most riders suck and aren't going to notice much if any difference. More bad advice is that moving from clipless pedals provide an advantage over flats. Maybe for a pro racer there is a small efficiency gain, but for most riders this is a myth. Ride what works best for you not what someone on the internet says because chances are they are full of sh*t.

Their riding would improve a lot more if they would actually try to ride technical sections rather than dumbing them down or riding weenie lines around them. I see that as a pretty big mistake riders make because they are limiting their own growth, not to mention ruining the experience for everyone who likes technical riding.

Flame away!


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Stop staring at that front wheel and look at least 15 feet in the direction where you should be going. 

On berms/walls, outside pedal side goes down and left elbow bent, while right arm points straight down, elbow locked. Point hips in direction you're heading. This technique alone rocks.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Stay loose in the gnar. 
Take turns wide to maintain speed.
I like to lift my front wheel when going thru small mud sections for stability.
Momentum is your friend.


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## Chad_M (Jul 11, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> Water has always been enough for me, until beer.


+1

Unless it is a 60 mile ride or something.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I always hear guys saying "I never use my front brakes". If this is true, they're missing out on 60-70% of their braking capacity.


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## IFallDown (Mar 2, 2014)

drink more beer after the ride then before the ride.


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## RWhiz (Jun 10, 2013)

Learning some basic maintenance. I have a few friends who are avid mountain bikers who haven't learned even certain basic maintenance procedures. They take their bike to the shop for the most basic maintenance, while that's not a problem, I do to when time is tight, these guys don't know how simple bike systems work. Simple things like adjusting a derailure during a ride, knowing how air pressure effects ride characteristics, and how to wash a dirty bike. Take some time to learn the basics!


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

How do you go faster and ride farther? 

Learn to save energy by maintaining speed, which is the best way to maintain energy. The best advice I was given is to ride smoothly before trying to ride faster.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

1) Not learning the front brake is a big mistake I see often.

2) Not experimenting with suspension settings to learn their effects seems a fairly common oversight. I've actually met riders having air forks who somehow do not own shock pumps and have never experimented with different pressures. Weird. But it happens. 

3) Posting on forums on a nice day like today when I should be loading the bike and my gear into my car. LOL!


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Don't buy cheap _aluminum_ bottle cages and expect them to hold onto your water bottle reliably over time. The fatigue of your bottle bouncing around in it loosens it up. I've tried to bend mine back to make it wrap around my bottle tighter, but that hasn't addressed how it's ejecting my bottles more frequently now. I expect it to snap like a paperclip soon, but I bet I'll replace it by then. Doesn't help that I sometimes wheel my bike on its rear wheel with the filled bottle in it, watching it flex it open. I've had better luck with the composite ones, like the Lezyne Flow, even though it permanently deformed my Podium bottle, and also find stainless steel ones to be flawless.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Dont air up your tires "till their hard"

Relax and stay loose

Learn how to adjust seat and bar height

If the pedals are made from plastic regardless how great they are supposed to be, not for off road use. CB 50/50 is exception as outer half is aluminum. Rocks and roots shatter plastic, shatter a pedal ride over.

GET YOUR BUTT OFF THE DANG SEAT


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

If you think you need lower gears, you need lower gears. Don't let any "experts" talk you out of it, especially the ones who make blanket statements like "nobody needs gearing lower than .8". Attempts to shame you into pushing tall gears should be doubly suspect.

I received a lot of that kind of bad advice from other mtb'ers when starting out. Oddly enough, the advice I got from roadies was better: gear down and spin up.

The lowest gear on my first mtb was 26x30 when I bought it. Climbing steep hills in that brought on severe knee pain. Switched the 26 for a 24 didn't help much. I was hurting my knees too much to progress at all for the first year and a half. It wasn't until I got a 34 for the rear (giving me 24x34) that I was able to climb the hills without knee pain.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

wearing underware under spandex or baggy bike shorts. I chuckle everytime I see that.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

Varaxis said:


> One mistake I see mtbers make - thinking that plain water, even in large quantities (up to 3L), is enough in the summer heat. I learned that electrolytes (ex. sodium and potassium) are needed to truly rehydrate. Simply 1/2 teaspoon of Morton "Salt Balance", which sodium and potassium at a good ratio, also containing calcium and magnesium (which are also electrolytes that are needed), and 6 teaspoons of regular sugar, which helps with electrolyte absorption (and for calories and taste), will turn a liter of plain water into an endurance sports drink that can combat dehydration.


I'm trying to avoid sugar and use Xylitol instead, but I don't know if Xylitol would help with absorption, taste is the same as with sugar though, but chemistry is different as Xylitol is sugar alcohol. Anyone has info or understanding on that?


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

While I agree the front brake is very useful, and I use both my brakes when I'm really trying to brake effectively, I've been trying to train my wife to do the opposite. She's only ridden on pavement previously and not understanding how to shift weight and use the brakes effectively to slow the bike or find grip for braking on loose stuff isn't intuitive. For her, I've been encouraging her to use her rear brake in most cases to prevent an accidental OTB but also trying to make her conscience of when the rear tire locks and skids.

OTOH I've also tried to show her that by using her both her brakes and her weight she can literally crawl down descents that scare her to try to take at speed. Disc brakes are SOOO good and the control and modulation is so much better than the old canti stuff that you can crawl down stuff with no slippage. I also think it might be a good exercise for learning how much control you have with your brakes.

So I think really it comes down to not taking advice from the internet or out of context. Some riders may be advanced enough and not using the front brake to where they need that advice, some very new beginners may need the opposite sort of advice to get a feel of the bike and how to ride in control before ramming the front brakes on a steep descent and breaking their necks.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

^^^^

the problem with rear brake only is you do not slow down as fast or sometimes at all. 

Go to some flat grass and practice threshhold braking with both brakes and getting her COM back as she applies the brakes.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

I think that one great way to learn front brake is relatively soft sand and not at descent, but more of level, you will not be going too fast, but you quickly learn difference of locking the wheel and braking at limit of grip.

After that harder sand / gravel road and maybe even trying little endo, going to small descents on road while trying to endo and soon rider can understand modulation quite well. 

It helps to use ground type that slows things down like any soft stuff does, also when there is less grip it helps to realize how brake is not on off device, one needs to feather the lever and work towards harder squeeze. 

I like to do endo on dual track kind of driveway of mine, front wheel almost skidding, disc brakes have that great modulation indeed and when there is enough power it is possible to do things like I did with canti's, endoing at every red light, some 25 years ago. 
Back then I could shock motorists by doing endo on snow/ice (yes, with cantilevers), last winter had not enough grip with my Tektro disc brake to do that or get tire slip, but I hope to try again with new brake at coming winter. 

One bad advice I have seen is that disc brakes (or replace with any component) are so much better than canti/v-brakes, yes they can be, but not all are, some lack seriously on power department or some other aspect, so generalization I guess is one of the bad advices that I see. 

Not to blame anyone specifically, it just so happens, that when you have not experienced of something it is hard to know or understand about it and as we are passionate about our hobby it often happens that our view becomes bit narrow. 
Life is about learning so we fail and we learn, nothing more really in it.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

Something that seems pretty common sense to me from riding on loose stuff for over 20 years I've found can be quite challenging for others to grasp. Main issues being as you said, washing out on loose stuff with too much brake - it's much easier to control the bike if it's a little rear wheel skid vs. a front wash. Second, and big here in the NE, is roots - a well placed root and too much front brake can either send one into a front end skid or OTB.

That's why I said I tried to encourage going slow and crawling down that stuff while using both brakes before doing it at speed. When just a little speed needs to be scrubbed, I encouraged using the rear brake (actually that's always what I do whether it's the best way or not).

While braking on flats is good to learn and all, I think my wife gets that and can do that fairly well. Like I say, translating that to descents, slippery surfaces and adding speed is a bit trickier. I think it's just feel and confidence that comes with time on the bike. But also I feel if the rider gets scared they are going to go OTB, it gets harder to build the confidence.


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## CBus660R (Jun 22, 2012)

Zachariah said:


> Stop staring at that front wheel and look at least 15 feet in the direction where you should be going.





cyclelicious said:


> Learn to save energy by maintaining speed, which is the best way to maintain energy. The best advice I was given is to ride smoothly before trying to ride faster.


The first leads to the second. I come from a dirtbike racing background (A level enduro racer) and looking down the trail as far as possible to find the smoothest line, avoid the worst line in a mud hole, etc... is second nature and I notice a lot of MTBers who look right in front of their front wheel and wind up taking bad lines, getting stalled out on hills, etc.. because they weren't looking ahead and being proactive.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

l'oiseau said:


> Something that seems pretty common sense to me from riding on loose stuff for over 20 years I've found can be quite challenging for others to grasp. Main issues being as you said, washing out on loose stuff with too much brake - it's much easier to control the bike if it's a little rear wheel skid vs. a front wash. Second, and big here in the NE, is roots - a well placed root and too much front brake can either send one into a front end skid or OTB.
> 
> That's why I said I tried to encourage going slow and crawling down that stuff while using both brakes before doing it at speed. When just a little speed needs to be scrubbed, I encouraged using the rear brake (actually that's always what I do whether it's the best way or not).
> 
> While braking on flats is good to learn and all, I think my wife gets that and can do that fairly well. Like I say, translating that to descents, slippery surfaces and adding speed is a bit trickier. I think it's just feel and confidence that comes with time on the bike. But also I feel if the rider gets scared they are going to go OTB, it gets harder to build the confidence.


I agree very well with going slow and all of it really, if she is managing to do stops with limited slippage of front wheel when on flat, then I too think that it is just matter of getting more experience.

That will help her to understand how root for example acts like added brake and she has to compensate that by releasing pressure of brake lever. Also I agree that it is safer to start with rear brake, but also i think constantly one should experiment how much front brake can be applied on different situations.

After there is somewhat good idea stored to spine, one can increase speed.

I tend also to steer by brakes, I use more rear brake if I want to make tight turn and so on, sometimes I start braking with both brakes but let front free when diving into turn, practicing such helps to understand how braking affects bike's handling, imo.

Better understanding of weight transfer of course leads better braking too.

When I ride my scooter at winter I use only rear brake, with bicycle I have ended up into situation where I had no way to slow down during winter, poor tires and hill, rear brake did not do anything and front brake did not slow down enough without wash out, I ended up being passenger and crashing after picking up some speed, so also understanding limits what your tires can do is part of the issue 

Sometimes controlled crash is best thing one can do, so worth to practice that too!


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

"You have to spend X amount of money for a bike to be successful in the sport" is the worst advice ever and seems to proliferate the internet forums.


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## CBus660R (Jun 22, 2012)

tiretracks said:


> "You have to spend X amount of money for a bike to be successful in the sport" is the worst advice ever and seems to proliferate the internet forums.


I'd argue that at the bottom end, say up to $1000-1500, every dollar you spend is buying more durability and long term enjoyment. Once you get into a reputable brand hard tail with a Deore/X5 groupset, then you're buying performance. You don't need a hot rod to have lots of fun with this sport, but you do need something that isn't gonna break all the time.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Varaxis said:


> One mistake I see mtbers make - thinking that plain water, even in large quantities (up to 3L), is enough in the summer heat. I learned that electrolytes (ex. sodium and potassium) are needed to truly rehydrate. Simply 1/2 teaspoon of Morton "Salt Balance", which sodium and potassium at a good ratio, also containing calcium and magnesium (which are also electrolytes that are needed), and 6 teaspoons of regular sugar, which helps with electrolyte absorption (and for calories and taste), will turn a liter of plain water into an endurance sports drink that can combat dehydration.


Plain water is fine, as long as you are eating something that has electrolytes, which most everything will. A bigger mistake IMO would be not keeping your bloodsugar up by eating a little every 45 min or so.

My performance significantly improved when I stopped drinking the corn-syrup laden gatorade.

Apart from 6 years ago and before when I weighed 50lbs more, I haven't been using "electrolyte" drinks at all. I might go through an entire camelback on a long 40 mile ride here (again, being in better shape made me more water-efficient), but simply drinking more water at all times (when not riding) has made a huge difference for me. as long as you aren't out in the 100oz/hr heat, which can happen and is possible to deal with, you don't need to overdo it, except maybe for a race it might be a little beneficial. We generally consume extreme amounts of salt in our diets, so it's not like we are missing it when we start rides, except in extremely rare medical conditions. Are there situations where I'd use an electrolyte mix? Sure, but it's nowhere near as critical as you are saying IMO, unless you're way out there in the most extreme environment or competition level.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jayem said:


> Plain water is fine, as long as you are eating something that has electrolytes, which most everything will. A bigger mistake IMO would be not keeping your bloodsugar up by eating a little every 45 min or so.
> 
> My performance significantly improved when I stopped drinking the corn-syrup laden gatorade.
> 
> Apart from 6 years ago and before when I weighed 50lbs more, I haven't been using "electrolyte" drinks at all. I might go through an entire camelback on a long 40 mile ride here (again, being in better shape made me more water-efficient), but simply drinking more water at all times (when not riding) has made a huge difference for me. as long as you aren't out in the 100oz/hr heat, which can happen and is possible to deal with, you don't need to overdo it, except maybe for a race it might be a little beneficial. We generally consume extreme amounts of salt in our diets, so it's not like we are missing it when we start rides, except in extremely rare medical conditions. Are there situations where I'd use an electrolyte mix? Sure, but it's nowhere near as critical as you are saying IMO, unless you're way out there in the most extreme environment or competition level.


I've always been an advocate of staying hydrated with only water. All the mixed drinks never did take to my system.


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## Fairbanks007 (Sep 5, 2009)

Chad_M said:


> +1
> 
> Unless it is a 60 mile ride or something.


+1 again.

Does that make it +2 now?


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

Mistakes: Staring at front wheel 
Skills: Not practicing track stands or other simple grassy field moves
Pet peeve: Throwing gu packets on ground rather then putting trash in a pocket

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

Jayem said:


> Plain water is fine, as long as you are eating something that has electrolytes, which most everything will. A bigger mistake IMO would be not keeping your bloodsugar up by eating a little every 45 min or so.
> 
> My performance significantly improved when I stopped drinking the corn-syrup laden gatorade.
> 
> Apart from 6 years ago and before when I weighed 50lbs more, I haven't been using "electrolyte" drinks at all. I might go through an entire camelback on a long 40 mile ride here (again, being in better shape made me more water-efficient), but simply drinking more water at all times (when not riding) has made a huge difference for me. as long as you aren't out in the 100oz/hr heat, which can happen and is possible to deal with, you don't need to overdo it, except maybe for a race it might be a little beneficial. We generally consume extreme amounts of salt in our diets, so it's not like we are missing it when we start rides, except in extremely rare medical conditions. Are there situations where I'd use an electrolyte mix? Sure, but it's nowhere near as critical as you are saying IMO, unless you're way out there in the most extreme environment or competition level.


Not everyone is overloading himself with salt, I have found out being using way too little salt, but then again I don't eat much at all those ready made meals, I even do my own seasonings.

For me just water starts to have ill effects after 2-3 hours, tiny bit of salt fixes that.

I guess there is two takes on this, you eat constantly something and drink only water or you just drink something that has carbon hydrates and minerals in it. 
From memory it took around 45 minutes to burn stored carbon hydrates so to get best performance one should refill before that one way or another.

Whatever one does there should be good balance, eating and plain water works, but if you ride over 2 hours non stop (Marathon etc.) refilling by drink might be easier to manage?

Carbon hydrates were also needed to avoid burning muscles away if I remember correctly from what national coach once told, for burning fat, there needed to be carbon hydrates present, so there must be one or another way one does the refilling.

So I think you both are correct, just water does not cut it, but refill does not need to be liquid, do what is more convenient to you, there is also absorption speed to consider, however I have no much idea about that, yet, but this is just my opinion.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Plain water advocates, please post examples of rides in _summer heat_. For example, a 2+ hour long ride that started midday in 85+ F heat, in an area known for having a lack of shade.

Before I switched, I opted to find any place or time cool to ride. I still have those habits, but I find there's not really anything to fear from the sun, such as heat stroke, when prepared with a good electrolyte drink, which effectively unlocked many areas to ride during the midday/afternoon.

It's surprising how far a single water bottle, a small Podium Chill in my case, can take you when filled with a good electrolyte drink. I've been continuously surprised by what improvements my formula has brought in my riding recently, despite being so simple. Did a 5 hr road ride on a single bottle and just a quick cereal breakfast (grilled cheese sandwiches the night before), and I required no recovery time. I just threw in recovery weeks to play it safe, though I'm questioning the need for them, since I don't feel fatigued. Notice the correlation between improved endurance, and this post, when I stated I'm planning to make my own formula.

Back on topic, another mistake: riding "aggressively" does not mean riding "recklessly" or "stupidly". It typically involves a plan to attack an obstacle or section using skillful technique to get past quicker, instead of trying to take it easy. Think of it as being the opposite of defensive riding, rather than negligent and abusive riding that involves getting airborne and/or sideways.


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## CBus660R (Jun 22, 2012)

Varaxis, I haven't done 2+hr rides on my MTB, but racing enduros on my dirtbike, I definitely notice a difference between straight water or adding a few Gu Brews to my hydration pack. At a race earlier in the year, I forgot to pack my Brews and gels, so I went 4.5 hours with just straight water and no fuel. By the last 11 mile section I was a cramping, mistake prone disaster that was a good 4-5 minutes slower in that section than my buddies who I'm usually the same speed as. It was a real eye opener since I'm the guy who always takes advantage of supplements and gels at races and it had been years since I raced without them. There was a huge difference. The next race I made sure I was good to go and I finished strong without issue.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Not getting out on the road. 

Keeps mountain biking fresh and helps with your fitness. Just don't do it too much because that would be a horrible mistake.


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## Thaumaturge (Feb 25, 2006)

Oh, so many things I notice! Where to begin?

The biggest thing I see that holds people back is bad body position. That isn't usually a result of bad advice, though; just a lack of good advice. I never want to be "that guy" who just randomly starts offering help. It seems like too much potential to come across as condescending.

One more, because this one has been bugging me for days. I recently read an article by a professional trainer, and one comment that kept cropping up from the peanut gallery was something like "to get better just ride more". That might be great advice in your first season of riding, but at some point you're just reinforcing bad habits and you won't progress further without some sort of external advice.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> Plain water advocates, please post examples of rides in _summer heat_. For example, a 2+ hour long ride that started midday in 85+ F heat, in an area known for having a lack of shade.


I've done loads of fast, aggressive 2-4 hour rides amongst the sun baked desert rocks surrounding Tucson with temperatures routinely exceeding 100 F. I'm not saying my way is best, mainly just that I was lazy and didn't want to clean that sticky gunk out of my water bottles. As mentioned earlier a well timed banana or energy bar would generally suffice to stave off impending bonks.


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## Bicyclelist (Sep 5, 2006)

Varaxis said:


> Plain water advocates, please post examples of rides in _summer heat_. For example, a 2+ hour long ride that started midday in 85+ F heat, in an area known for having a lack of shade.


Here you go:

Check out my 26.1 mi Ride on Strava: https://app.strava.com/activities/339174899

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Varaxis said:


> Plain water advocates, please post examples of rides in _summer heat_. For example, a 2+ hour long ride that started midday in 85+ F heat, in an area known for having a lack of shade.


Um...Arizona?

Extreme to me is more like 100 degrees and humidity 50% or more, although even mid 90s can be killer with high humidity, temps where you are going to burn through water because your ability to sweat and cool off is severely diminished due to the lack of evaporation, which leads to depleting electrolytes, but a tell-tale sign is simply blowing through water, which is usually easy enough to recognize. Some people can't fathom it, but I know of situations where I used to burn through 100oz/hr, in the Army and then later riding in AZ in the summer. I would pack more fluid or fill up, allowing me to ride for a few hours, but burning through 200oz or more. Yes, I know that sounds like a lot, think about how much you have to drink in a checmical MOPP suit with a gas-mask on in the summer of Oklahoma, or while riding when it's 100 degrees in Sedona (but the reflecting rock makes it feel like more). Burning through water that fast is when you probably can't eat something fast enough to replenish the electrolytes.

Again, 2-3hrs, what many normal rides are, no issue at all. Longer rides? Just eat some food for god's sake, which you should be doing on the shorter rides, but chances are the ride is short enough you aren't too far up a creek if you choose not to. Eating easy-to-digest food usually contains plenty of electrolyes. Look at the potassium and sodium on gels and powerbars. I'd say the bigger mistake is simply not eating anything and not understanding simple and complex carbs and where and when they help you and when they should be consumed. That has a far greater effect, as they naturally contain the electrolytes...like Brawndo.

I rode for 7hrs on "plain" water the other weekend, with gummy-energy things, a cliff bar, and maybe some other kind of food which I can't remember. Although I'm no longer riding in AZ, I think I've paid my dues as far as that's concerned, riding there for 11 years, most summer rides easily surpass your criteria. Timing and eating the right stuff is much more important for keeping energy levels up AND staving off cramps than an electrolyte energy drink/additive IME.


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## MTBAlabama (May 22, 2015)

Taking more trail then my ability but pushing my effort farther and being sore the next day.. Love it and Miss riding I have not rode in a few weeks due to being busy with work and life.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

SeaBass_ said:


> ...
> Momentum is your friend.


:thumbsup:



provin1327 said:


> ...
> Pet peeve: Throwing gu packets on ground rather then putting trash in a pocket
> ...


:madmax:

-F

PS - never lost a bottle using Blackburn mountain cages


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

as i get older...always remember to keep exploring the fastest/fun line instead of the smoother line. having just put together my first dh ride in my 40s, remembering when to use my balls instead of my brain is fun as hell!!!! haha

i think a mistake is for young groms not to be exposed and learn from bmx first. it teaches the core skill of weight placement for grip and air miles and the very much neglected skill of knowing how to pump! bmxican because it works!!


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

Varaxis said:


> It's surprising how far a single water bottle, a small Podium Chill in my case, can take you when filled with a good electrolyte drink.


This. I used to be a plain water advocate until I started using Hammer Heed. I noticed I could push up serious climbs that would have created a crazy burn in my legs without sipping on that electrolyte drink. Longer energy too. I don't use it every time but any rides over 2 hours, 80*, and ~ 10-15 miles & 2,000' vert


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I never really had much trouble with electrolytes in the desert when I spent a summer in Southern Utah for work. It was hot, sure, but very little sweating actually worked to keep me cool, so I didn't burn through water all that fast. I can't think of a single occasion where I felt like I needed to include electrolytes with my water. I brought food, and was fine.

I have quite a lot of experience riding in high humidity situations. 50% humidity makes me chuckle. That's LOW humidity for me, and riding in those conditions is downright refreshing. Most of my summer riding is with 75% or higher humidity. Oftentimes over 90%. My ride the other day wasn't hot, but I was riding a popular floodplain trail on my way home from work. I was absolutely swimming in sweat. Being along the river, in a valley, in the woods, protected from the wind, humidity was extremely high. It was a short ride, though, so I just drank water and I was fine. More than a couple hours in that kind of stuff, and I need electrolytes from more than just food. My body will tell me if I've been stupid in avoiding them, too, with splitting headaches. I find it much better to err on the side of caution with electrolytes. I've done a few 6 and 7 hour rides this year where that's been extremely important. 

I see with surprising regularity people who never experiment with anything that involves settings. Suspension, tire pressure, anything like that. Also people who ride with their suspension inflated such that they've got MAYBE 10% sag. Why not save the weight of the suspension and install a rigid carbon fork?

People who don't session obstacles that give them trouble.

People who own/ride bikes with longer suspension travel and geometry suited for aggressive riding, who avoid chunky stuff.

The old recommendation that still remains ingrained here, that if you want to be a more serious mountain biker, you have to "upgrade" to clipless pedals, in spite of the fact that I continue to see more and more platform pedals on bikes. I would say that visitors from out-of-state HEAVILY favor platform pedals, but those are still very much in the minority among locals. This is partly the fault of the shops who refuse to dispel the old attitudes.

Lack of preparedness. I find it to be associated with the fixation on clipless pedals locally, but the xc racer type mentality prevails here. I see very few riders who are prepared for mishaps on the trail. People are often amazed that I ride with a first aid kit all the time. I almost never use it on myself, either. It's almost always for other riders. Riders who depart the trailhead without ANY water at all. I don't see many mechanicals on the trail, but I know a lot of people don't carry a multitool of any kind. The number of riders on tubeless setups who don't carry a spare tube. I carry a tube, materials to boot a tire in a pinch, a little extra sealant, a patch kit. Most of that stuff is tiny and weighs next to nothing (except the tube and my pump). I always have a little extra food, too.


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## milliesand (Jun 29, 2015)

Passing families where the kids all have helmets on but the parents don't. Reminds me of being a kid and my friends parents telling me not to smoke and drink, while smoking and drinking.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Something I've noticed recently. The cranks at 12 and six while surfing chunder. I'll give a gentle pointer if the opportunity presents itself. Three and nine, it doesn't matter if you're regular or goofy.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

I am a newbe, I read something in a book entitled Mountain Biking Skills that to my surprise no one here has mentioned.

Chapter Four-Tools for the Trail.
Page 26- "Murphys Law dictates that you'll probably suffer one more tube demolition per ride than you have replacement tubes. So always try to fool Mr. Murphy by disguising your spare as a raisin bagel."

I wrap my tube with Saran Wrap.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Go tubeless and save the saran wrap for your lunch.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

People that just stop pedaling when they crest a rolling hill and coast to the next uphill then start pedaling. I used to do this when I got really tired but I learned if you just keep pedaling and upshift on the down you will pick up enough momentum that the hill takes less effort. I followed someone that was doing this exact thing this weekend and it was burning me up trying to follow him. By the time I got by it felt as if I climbed 5 miles when really we only rode about 2 miles of easy rolling hills.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

dirtrider76 said:


> People that just stop pedaling when they crest a rolling hill and coast to the next uphill then start pedaling. I used to do this when I got really tired but I learned if you just keep pedaling and upshift on the down you will pick up enough momentum that the hill takes less effort. I followed someone that was doing this exact thing this weekend and it was burning me up trying to follow him. By the time I got by it felt as if I climbed 5 miles when really we only rode about 2 miles of easy rolling hills.


Damn! Guilty! I'll keep this in mind next time.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

LMN said:


> Not getting out on the road.
> 
> Keeps mountain biking fresh and helps with your fitness. Just don't do it too much because that would be a horrible mistake.


I actually find that suggesting a developing rider spend more time on the road is possibly the single most harmful and universally given piece of advice in mountain biking. It encourages riders to value fitness over skill and stunts their progression. There are scores of riders and racers who spend years in the sport, yet have no tangible skill set, and never even bothered to learn proper cornering technique. They lose momentum everywhere, and try to compensate with more suffering. They skip most trail features. They have less fun and have to invest more effort. They reduce a great sport to mere exercise.

Put down the road bike. Go to the pump track. Learn to pump a bike. Learn to corner with proper technique; it's not voodoo. Ride an urban landscape, and ride creative lines. Try your luck at the skatepark or local jump spot. Mastery of mountain biking does not happen on a road bike.

In my experience, a progressive rider that challenges himself, and rides as regularly as a racer that is always in training/recovery mode, will be at mild disadvantage on climb heavy trails. But that disparity can be removed with a couple months of cardio training. The dirt roadie will have lost years of skills progression, which cannot be easily recovered.

In short, mountain biking is a sport of many layers. You peel back each layer with each new skill learned, revealing a deeper, funner, and more fulfilling experience. And there are always more layers. That's what keeps mountain biking fresh. Don't make your riding something to be endured.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Whether electrolytes come mixed in your drink or come from something more solid (food, gel, or other energy products), your body is still getting it. Explaining how you use food items along with plain water to support your belief that there's no need to use "electrolyte drinks" is a bit silly. It's down to a matter of convenience now, like saying you don't need a dropper post when you can lower/raise your post manually. You're drinking water anyways and adding it to your drink saves effort compared to eating food. Does more to keep you hydrated and actually seems to improve endurance, and if more people went with drink mixes, there would be fewer fruit peels and cores and other food remnants littering nature by people who think they would "naturally biodegrade" over time.

Another mistake: overthinking things and confusing/complicating matters more. If it's a technical challenge, staring at it and imaging the risks/threats can just "psych" yourself out.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

AllMountin' said:


> I actually find that suggesting a developing rider spend more time on the road is possibly the single most harmful and universally given piece of advice in mountain biking.


I don't think he said anything about developing riders but I can't see how road riding would have any negative effects on them either. Road riding is very beneficial in developing a stronger engine, and a strong engine can make mountain biking more enjoyable. I spent a lot of time training on the road before mountain bikes came along and that experience helps me tremendously to this day when riding off road..



Varaxis said:


> Whether electrolytes come mixed in your drink or come from something more solid (food, gel, or other energy products), your body is still getting it. Explaining how you use food items along with plain water to support your belief that there's no need to use "electrolyte drinks" is a bit silly.


How is that silly? I get a lot more than electrolytes from bananas and other food that I eat. I have tried electrolyte mixes but for the past 35 years of bike riding all of my hydration has come from pure H2o, It's not a religion or belief, it's a reality.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

People who run tubeless that thinks they don't need to bring along a spare tube.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Varaxis said:


> Whether electrolytes come mixed in your drink or come from something more solid (food, gel, or other energy products), your body is still getting it. Explaining how you use food items along with plain water to support your belief that there's no need to use "electrolyte drinks" is a bit silly. It's down to a matter of convenience now, like saying you don't need a dropper post when you can lower/raise your post manually. You're drinking water anyways and adding it to your drink saves effort compared to eating food. Does more to keep you hydrated and actually seems to improve endurance, and if more people went with drink mixes, there would be fewer fruit peels and cores and other food remnants littering nature by people who think they would "naturally biodegrade" over time.
> 
> Another mistake: overthinking things and confusing/complicating matters more. If it's a technical challenge, staring at it and imaging the risks/threats can just "psych" yourself out.


Well, the issue is you need to eat, to keep your glucose level up, and you need to drink, to allow your body to function, sweat, process food, etc. You don't _need_ to drink electrolytes, since they are contained in food. Which is more beneficial, eating nothing over 3 hours with an electrolyte mix/tablet, or eating a small amount every 45 minutes with no electrolyte mix? I'd say the latter, because you are getting electrolytes AND replenishing your glucose level. That is the mistake that I see riders making on these rides (by not eating or bringing sufficient/correct foods for energy/digestion). YEMV of course.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

the-one1 said:


> People who run tubeless that thinks they don't need to bring along a spare tube.


Just not bringing tools in general. Two weekends ago on a popular 40 mile trail/ride I let one person borrow my shock pump and then later on let someone borrow my tire pump. Seriously, you are going to get 20+ miles in and not have these things? The shock pump one was in a group going the opposite direction and no one else in the group had one? 20+ miles is a long way to walk for sure. On the short city trails where you are never more than a mile from a road or being able to get out of the trail system, sure, don't bring much gear, but the further from civilization you are, the more you need to have.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Varaxis said:


> Plain water advocates, please post examples of rides in _summer heat_. For example, a 2+ hour long ride that started midday in 85+ F heat, in an area known for having a lack of shade.


Can't.
That kind of conditions almost never happen where I ride.

One mistake that people often make when sharing advice is assuming that everybody has the same climate, geography and vegetation.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Mistake - treating debates like popularity contests, looking to find or create some sort of consensus by racking up votes for a side, and supporting your preferred stance with subjective evidence, sometimes using simple anecdotes (ex. "works for me without such problems") & ad hominem. 

I never knew there was a food vs drink mix debate on MTBR, alongside clipless vs flats, wheel size war, HT vs FS, and other endless debates. I didn't want to trigger it. I merely wanted to point out that there's people who don't get electrolytes in any form. There are types that go without, claiming that they only do so for rides under 2h, and wind up dehydrating or getting heat stroke anyways, perhaps thinking it was a bonk. Perhaps they prepare next time by bringing even more water and/or cutting the ride's length and/or intensity, depending on the climate. I wanted to see how those that said plain water was enough got along for longer rides under a commonly found condition, only to find out they do get electrolytes, so they are arguing merely against how I suggested a simple way was to add salt and sugar to a drink they were carrying anyways. The sugar is glucose and glycogen too.


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## Chadio (Jun 26, 2015)

Mistake - forum members assuming that everyone who rides mtbs wants to go fast..

(some of us are just trying to enjoy off-road riding on a bike, enjoy the scenery, and the experience - we aren't trying to win a race or to go faster than our buddy or show off)


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Varaxis said:


> Mistake - treating debates like popularity contests, looking to find or create some sort of consensus by racking up votes for a side, and supporting your preferred stance with subjective evidence, sometimes using simple anecdotes (ex. "works for me without such problems") & ad hominem.
> 
> I never knew there was a food vs drink mix debate on MTBR, alongside clipless vs flats, wheel size war, HT vs FS, and other endless debates. I didn't want to trigger it. I merely wanted to point out that there's people who don't get electrolytes in any form. There are types that go without, claiming that they only do so for rides under 2h, and wind up dehydrating or getting heat stroke anyways, perhaps thinking it was a bonk. Perhaps they prepare next time by bringing even more water and/or cutting the ride's length and/or intensity, depending on the climate. I wanted to see how those that said plain water was enough got along for longer rides under a commonly found condition, only to find out they do get electrolytes, so they are arguing merely against how I suggested a simple way was to add salt and sugar to a drink they were carrying anyways. The sugar is glucose and glycogen too.


Keeping your glucose levels up is not as simple as just eating sugar. If it was, that's all we'd eat on rides


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

grumpy old biker said:


> I tend also to steer by brakes, I use more rear brake if I want to make tight turn and so on, sometimes I start braking with both brakes but let front free when diving into turn, practicing such helps to understand how braking affects bike's handling, imo.


Don't skid, judge your corner entry speed better. If you enter a turn at the right speed, you don't need to grab the brakes so hard.



Jayem said:


> Plain water is fine, as long as you are eating something that has electrolytes, which most everything will. A bigger mistake IMO would be not keeping your bloodsugar up by eating a little every 45 min or so.


If you want to diet, do it with your normal meals, not when your body NEEDS the fuel. Nothing more annoying than listening to someone complaining about bonking after they made the conscious decision to cause that bonk to happen by not eating throughout the ride.

"I don't need to eat/drink that much." I'd say your lack of performance as the ride progresses proves otherwise.



Harold said:


> I see with surprising regularity people who never experiment with anything that involves settings. Suspension, tire pressure, anything like that. Also people who ride with their suspension inflated such that they've got MAYBE 10% sag. Why not save the weight of the suspension and install a rigid carbon fork?


Poor bike setup and maintenance is horrible. I'm not going to pay for an expensive and very capable bike and not ensure that it is as capable as possible for every ride.



AllMountin' said:


> I actually find that suggesting a developing rider spend more time on the road is possibly the single most harmful and universally given piece of advice in mountain biking. It encourages riders to value fitness over skill and stunts their progression.


Higher fitness leads to less fatigue, less fatigue means that you'll ride better. Mountain biking just isn't as good as road riding for fitness, never will be.



Chadio said:


> Mistake - forum members assuming that everyone who rides mtbs wants to go fast..


People that don't understand that something that makes same rider "faster" is a byproduct of efficiency and confidence.

Another mistake, not using one finger to brake. The difference between having three fingers instead of two wrapped around the grips, your much stronger middle finger being the main difference, is pretty drastic. If pro-downhillers can get enough power out of one finger braking, so can you.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

richde said:


> Don't skid, judge your corner entry speed better. If you enter a turn at the right speed, you don't need to grab the brakes so hard.


Skidding is not needed, more rear brake just helps bike steer better, I can leave braking later and keep momentum better.

Trail braking in motorsports. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_braking


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

richde said:


> If you want to diet, do it with your normal meals, not when your body NEEDS the fuel. Nothing more annoying than listening to someone complaining about bonking after they made the conscious decision to cause that bonk to happen by not eating throughout the ride.
> 
> "I don't need to eat/drink that much." I'd say your lack of performance as the ride progresses proves otherwise.


That reminds me of a peeve about how people are being swayed by health scares out there that say don't drink your calories, since it doesn't satisfy hunger, but that's mainly directed at obesity from drinking alcohol, juices, or carbonated beverages. There are health scares about sugar too, in regards to diabetes or other insulin disorders, and obesity, but it's actually the fructose and alcohol that's to blame. The fructose is turned into part fat (triglycerides), part glycogen (stored carb-based energy), part glucose (immediate blood sugar energy). Alcohol also is turned into fat (triglycerides), but in higher concentration, explaining its high caloric density. They both create the beer belly, especially in adult males.

Granulated cane sugar typically found is called sucrose, which is part glucose and part fructose. Honey is fructose, glucose, water, and, sucrose, and is often used as an "energy gel" alternative (as is maple syrup, which is water and sucrose). It's actually the main ingredient in Skratch Labs drink mix, which is very well respected as a total fuel solution for endurance sports. The doctor making it has specialized in it, though it's more applauded for how it balances the pH in the body, using things like sodium citrate, calcium and magnesium (all which are electrolytes too) to reduce acidity, and prevent upset stomachs.

The problem is these drinks not providing a full spectrum of nutrients. It's not like you can't get nutrients with fluids, even fiber (ex. Metamucil). It's not like you can't live off fluids alone. There are liquid diets for people unable to eat, and there are IV drips specialized formulated for such, while there are some IVs that are merely dextrose, sodium, and other electrolytes. The question here is, do you need them when you're on the bike? You can process about 60g of carbs per minute (which Carmichael believes too). Why not utilize this precisely, without waste, using specially formulated mixes that can be reliably measured and ingested in small volumes at more frequent intervals?

With the salt and sugar mixed in, it's more like I don't feel like I got a decent workout with a mere 15 miles. I go until my I use up my bottle or when I am ill prepared to go any further, such as lacking a light and it's getting dark. That's the kind of boost it provides, and I don't even need a pack.

Don't take it from me, or Skratch Lab's FAQ/propaganda... verify with your own research if you wish for credibility. Just don't be ignorant and contest things due to "everyone not doing it". Honestly, that salt and sugar recipe I gave came straight from the wiki on ORS, which is used for dehydration, apparently sourced from the Mayo Clinic, while the World Health Org has a more specific formula that includes potassium and sodium citrate. My personal formula is more of a reverse engineering of Tailwind Nutrition's formula, because it replaces some sucrose with dextrose.


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## Fairbanks007 (Sep 5, 2009)

The rule of thumb is that if you are losing more than 2% of your body weight by sweating, you are at risk for dehydration and should consider some sort of electrolyte replacement. Food's always a good idea, too, if you're out for more than just a quick spin.

Exercise and Fluid Replacement : Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise

Having said that, make DARN sure you clean those water bottles and bladders thoroughly if you've had anything in them besides plain water. Seen plenty of folks at races losing WAY more than 2% of their body weight via vomiting or diarrhea caused by crap growing in there.


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## JakeCB (Jul 11, 2011)

After reading this thread, I now know what a lot of you are carrying in those monster backpacks. I've always wondered.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

grumpy old biker said:


> Skidding is not needed, more rear brake just helps bike steer better, I can leave braking later and keep momentum better.
> 
> Trail braking in motorsports.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_braking


From your link:
"Traditionally, trail braking is done exclusively with the front brake"

Sigh.

it's also not done to "steer the bike," it's done to slow down. Steering the bike comes from skidding the back tire which tightens the line. Enter a turn perfectly and the tires will be at the edge of adhesion, but not completely exceed it, braking places an additional and ultimately unnecessary load on the tire if your entry speed was correct in the first place.

Lay off the brakes and lean the bike more. Less brakes is always faster than more brakes. I can't guarantee in which direction you'll be going faster, whether off the trail or staying on it, but it will be faster...but that's a different discussion.


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## CBus660R (Jun 22, 2012)

richde said:


> From your link:
> "Traditionally, trail braking is done exclusively with the front brake"
> 
> Sigh.
> ...


Trail braking does help steer the bike. By braking after the turn is initiated, it helps keep the fork compressed, increasing weight transfer and steepening the head angle, leading to better turn in with the front. You don't use the front brakes through the apex, just up to it. It's really only at the apex with maximum lean angle where the front tire can't handle any additional load from braking. On a mountain bike, you typically are not going fast enough to really benefit from it. Personally, I do use it some on my dirtbike, but very little on my MTB (XC/trail riding, I don't ride DH). Whether it's applicable or not depends on the turn. Even in road racing with motorcycles, they don't use it on ever turn.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> Mistake - treating debates like popularity contests, looking to find or create some sort of consensus by racking up votes for a side, and supporting your preferred stance with subjective evidence, sometimes using simple anecdotes (ex. "works for me without such problems") & ad hominem.
> 
> I never knew there was a food vs drink mix debate on MTBR, alongside clipless vs flats, wheel size war, HT vs FS, and other endless debates.


Glass houses, throwing stones & such, some of the reasons I try to avoid pointing out "mistakes" others make. Sometimes you really have to look within.

As far as a debate goes I think if you look at it objectively you might see that you are a pretty big chunk of fuel in the fire. I didn't see any posts suggesting that you stop adding gunk to your water, or that you're somehow doing it wrong.

Unmolested water has always been sufficient for me even on long grueling rides in high heat. Doesn't work for you? Do something else. Works for me? Fine & dandy, simple as that.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

richde said:


> From your link:
> "Traditionally, trail braking is done exclusively with the front brake"
> 
> Sigh.
> ...


Comparing dirt driving techniques to asphalt is pretty pointless. Might as well throw in some apples and orange to be sure we are thoroughly confused.

As the other dude said, it's to transfer weight and keep grip on the front tire. Either brake transfers weight to the front tire but the front is more effective and somewhat safer on a smooth, high grip surface. If obstacles are present it's much better to use the rear (or both), also being able to induce a rear skid i.e. some oversteer, like driving a rally car on dirt, isn't necessarily the worst situation to put yourself in if you feel you aren't turning enough or haven't done enough braking initially. Unlike a motorcycle (and typically a dirt bike) you aren't in a position for power on oversteer, so brake steer might be a bit safer.

If you want to talk about the hairy edge of grip, weight transfer, sliding and slip angles to the gnats ass, then get into asphalt racing. It's much, much, much more precise and faster acting than any loose surface. If you want to talk about dirt, rocks, roots, mud, snow, etc look more at what rally does and how big those slip angles are and what you can get away with. It's much less tidy than asphalt. A lot more variables, but in some sense, a lot more ways to make mistakes or make gains.

For most mere mortals maintaining grip is the idea, and we don't get penalized too bad for going over or under. For real racers, they blur the lines a lot more and hold it to a razors edge that we only might balance on for a few seconds. You certainly aren't going to learn that on the internet though.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

CBus660R said:


> Trail braking does help steer the bike. By braking after the turn is initiated, it helps keep the fork compressed, increasing weight transfer and steepening the head angle, leading to better turn in with the front. You don't use the front brakes through the apex, just up to it. It's really only at the apex with maximum lean angle where the front tire can't handle any additional load from braking. On a mountain bike, you typically are not going fast enough to really benefit from it. Personally, I do use it some on my dirtbike, but very little on my MTB (XC/trail riding, I don't ride DH). Whether it's applicable or not depends on the turn. Even in road racing with motorcycles, they don't use it on ever turn.


I was referring to the link that he provided that was supposed to support his theory.

Yes, with dirt bikes you back it in, and that's the skidding that I was referring to, but they also have a motor to power you out of the suddenly straighter turn so they can exit the turn faster than would be possible without creating the early apex. You don't have that on a bicycle, so you've just bled off a bunch of speed and that straighter line is no longer necessary because you're going slower.

You can load your tires without bleeding off speed by simply using the proper body positioning that the situation calls for. Because again, if you're able to brake in a turn, you weren't at the edge of adhesion.

The truth of the matter is that it takes a lot of skill and a ton of confidence, (which I don't claim to have, since I chicken out and feather the rear brake too often as well) but the fastest and safest way around a turn is to not use the brakes.

Just watch a DS racer, or really any gravity racer, go through a corner. Figure out what you're doing before turning in and rail it, no brakes.


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## praivo (Nov 16, 2014)

JonathanGennick said:


> 2) Not experimenting with suspension settings to learn their effects seems a fairly common oversight. I've actually met riders having air forks who somehow do not own shock pumps and have never experimented with different pressures. Weird. But it happens.


This. I once rode with a guy who insisted on running 45+ psi in his Rapid Robs on a gravel road because "it then rolls faster on the tarmac". Yes, it does and my 18/24 is slower, but I can go full speed on the gravel and not bounce around like a ball. And "the fork pressure the LBS set for me is what it should be, no need to alter it". Same with rebound damping. He rides a 2013 Giant Talon 29er 1 with a RS Recon.

F*ck that. During that same ride, I lowered the pressure in my fork (Raidon XC) twice and adjusted the rebound damping maybe five or six times - but then the fork really started to work beautifully and did so for the rest of the 3+ hour ride.


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## jim c (Dec 5, 2014)

you guys richde and l'oiseau, keep it up! you're making me dream about/remember/feel the trail. I was one of those guys running high tire pressure cause it rolls faster, it's great AND you get to slide around a lot. Been on tubeless this year and really enjoying the amazing traction you get at 24psi. New bike came with Ardent, not the knobbiest/stickiest tire so I do get up to that hairy edge. No doubt the fastest corner is done without sliding, but a drift (especially a two wheel drift) is soo very much fun.


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## CBus660R (Jun 22, 2012)

richde said:


> I was referring to the link that he provided that was supposed to support his theory.
> 
> Yes, with dirt bikes you back it in, and that's the skidding that I was referring to, but they also have a motor to power you out of the suddenly straighter turn so they can exit the turn faster than would be possible without creating the early apex. You don't have that on a bicycle, so you've just bled off a bunch of speed and that straighter line is no longer necessary because you're going slower.
> 
> ...


I never said anything about skidding or backing the rear in. There isn't any of that with trail braking. When you have a suspension fork, trail braking helps compress the front end and load the front tire. Unless you're riding a full rigid bike, there can be a place for trail braking on a MTB. When trail braking is done right, you can use a later braking point because you can carry more speed into and through the apex. The one thing you have to learn is how to modulate the brake and ease off as you tip in.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

CBus660R said:


> I never said anything about skidding or backing the rear in. There isn't any of that with trail braking. When you have a suspension fork, trail braking helps compress the front end and load the front tire. Unless you're riding a full rigid bike, there can be a place for trail braking on a MTB. When trail braking is done right, you can use a later braking point because you can carry more speed into and through the apex.


Now you're back to referring to the road racing version of trail braking, which is done to slow down, not to steer. That also applies to decreasing radius turns...and lightly dragging your rear brake isn't going to transfer any noticeable amount of weight, certainly not enough to compress your fork enough to influence steering angle in any perceptible way.

When you enter a turn correctly, the tires are already correctly loaded, and changing the loading with your body weight along with modulating the brake is an unnecessary complication.

Maximum corner speed is achieved by having the correct speed for the corner, aggressively turning in to the desired lean and steering angle and using maximum grip almost immediately. You don't fiddle around kinda turning, kinda braking, kinda thinking about it, that makes for a slow and late apex. If the corner has a berm, you missed most of it. If it's flat, you're still leaned over and hoping you'll make it while someone who did it right is already upright, looking down the trail, and ready for whatever comes next.

Here's Fabien Barel telling you to brake before the corner, so you can be faster through, and out of, the corner (at 5:17): 




Here's someone else saying to brake before the turn, not in it: 




More people disagreeing...
How To Brake Your Mountain Bike | Singletracks Mountain Bike News

I could go on and on here.



CBus660R said:


> The one thing you have to learn is how to modulate the brake and ease off as you tip in.


Now you're saying you don't brake in the corner? Make up your mind.

Dragging your rear brake is dragging your rear brake, it's not the same as when you ride a motorcycle on pavement or dirt. It's hard not to do, like I said I do it too sometimes, the difference is that I admit to myself and everyone else what's really happening.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of pointing out others mistakes.


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## CBus660R (Jun 22, 2012)

richde, I'm talking about using the front brake, not the rear. When the front tire is vertical, you can be very aggressive with the front brake. When you're leaned over on the edge, the front tire can handle very little brake, but in the transition between vertical and full lean, the tire can handle braking, it just progressively diminishes the further you lean, hence why you need good feel and need to feather out the brake as you lean further in. Also, I never stated it's applicable in all turns, or even most turns with a MTB, the speeds just aren't that high. Trail braking is another tool in the quiver though and if you want to discount it, that's your choice, but the point and shoot technique you keep advocating isn't what I'd use for most turns on a typical XC trail where I want to maintain as much momentum as I can and I don't have a ton of gravity assist to help like I would have on a DS or DH course.


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## demorules (Jan 28, 2015)

#1 Mistake I see (and was guilty of myself when I first started) is people riding on tracks over and above their ability at speeds they don't have the skill to handle. I quickly learned this is a massive recipe for disaster. 

#2 Mistake is allowing fashion to take predominance over safety and common sense. The amount of people I see with nothing but an XC lid and a pair of Oakleys bombing down grade 4/5 trails full of trees, rocks, drops and gaps is frightening. Even more frightening are the kids I watch in the skills park... trying to backflip a bike wearing a baseball cap. If someone is ripping you for wearing protection then they're a massive a-hole.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of pointing out others mistakes.


I think more wisdom would have pointing own mistakes to others, there would be learning process there.

About braking discussion.
Find the threshold and it is easy to figure out how fastest way is often different, there is no single rule to it and only by mastering several ways to take a corner will suffice if you are planning on winning. If you are not at threshold, or you can't keep bike at threshold during cornering you are going slower that you could be going. Dirt physics are interesting and quite different than solid materials, adapt, adjust, stuff under your tires is not going to be one kind either.

With MTB anyone thinking slow in fast out won't be getting maximum performance, it works in motorsports, it does not with muscle power. Experiment, don't ever get stuck to single truth, sometimes there is situation where exception confirms the rule.

I'm riding now Speed King at rear, I'm not leaning too much on loose stuff, there is 1 or 2 places that even have loose stuff, Race King at front is not the best for leaning on loose either, but then again most of my riding is on hard surfaces (clay, hard pack etc.) and that combination is fast, just not leaning friendly on loose stuff.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of pointing out others mistakes.


Because people are childish, hopelessly unable to mature, overreacting and creating drama due to being sensitive to having others point out their mistakes?

Wisdom goes hand in hand with maturity. I respect anyone that can learn from such, and doesn't need to be handled gently with tact or whatever, due to those sensitivities.

Mistake - doing stuff under the influence, irresponsibly forgetting that you're in a dazed state of mind, and there are things, other than yourself, at risk of being harmed. Though, if the only thing that gets hurt is yourself, and someone is filming it...


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Learn that gravity is a harsh mistress. Sometimes riding faster in the chunk is better. I ride with arm and leg armor, it makes me invincible( only mentally) Fat bikes are fun, I want to crush rocks. Follow a faster rider, usually with good results.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Mistake - believing that generally throwing more money at bike parts will allow it to have less weight, but with no less strength, without doing any verification to see if that's actually the case. You could just be paying for extra steps to make it pretty (ex. polishing), more expensive materials (ex. Ti hardware, higher quality coating), and/or extra time on the machine to sculpt the part (ex. for aesthetics).

For example, the difference between DT 190 hubs and 240s hubs, or 240s IS vs CL hubs, has significant strength reductions to get their weight savings. The 190 hubs run on weaker 6802 bearings, vs 6902 bearings on the 240s, but then again run on harder ceramic hybrid bearings so it is offset. The CL hubs have a smaller NDS flange diameter, which helps explain the ~9g weight savings. 20mm hubs run on stronger 6805 bearings, and a larger axle (since the bearings don't ride the thru axle itself), which explains the 20-30g weight increase. 

So from 6802 bearings, the dynamic load bearing (cr) goes from 2.08 to 3.65 for 6902. From 6902 to 6805, it goes to 4.30. The larger diameter axle (25mm in DT 240s OS) is exponentially stiffer too, so it is less likely to flex and cause binding issues, compared to the 17mm axle. Similar case with Stan's HD hubs, vs their non-HD hubs.

Don't regret choosing a part that's more liable to fail, for the prospect of saving mere grams...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> Because people are childish, hopelessly unable to mature, overreacting and creating drama due to being sensitive to having others point out their mistakes?


People? I (partially) agree, _some_ people _are_ very defensive, which can cause all the symptoms you mentioned as well as holding back potential progress and added fun on their part. Others however just may not want any solicited help, and I can't see anything wrong with that so long as they're not holding anyone else back.

Pointing out mistakes is critiquing, which is fine in the right circumstances (e.g. coaching, judging, mtbr threads) but I guess I'm just more the type to withhold comment unless I see someone who is obviously struggling, or asking for help.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

The guy I saw on the trail two days ago that had his helmet on backwards.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

That advice given is usually devoid of the correct questions prior to giving said advice.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I think the biggest mistake that mountain bikers make is to spend too much money and effort on gear rather than trails. What would all this expensive gear be worth if there were no trails to ride?

I'd like to see mountain bikers spend a good percent of their gear budget supporting the local trail advocacy club and another percentage of their biking time working on trails.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

Harold said:


> I see with surprising regularity people who never experiment with anything that involves settings. Suspension, tire pressure, anything like that. Also people who ride with their suspension inflated such that they've got MAYBE 10% sag. Why not save the weight of the suspension and install a rigid carbon fork?


I may have made an error buying tires from Walmart-only place that was open at 9pm. Think I paid too much for puncture resistant tires, doubt I will ever hit a nail, they cost more than my chainset or my rear wheel. I bought folding tires that the walls are so thin they were hard to keep on the rim to mount.

I do not think my skills are improving, but I am more surprised everyday what the bike can do. I could go down a hill that I could barely walk up, keep control and be able to stop if I had to. I was running 24 pounds of pressure in the kids bike that I was riding, I am running 40 pounds in the 29 tires, max of 60 pounds. All this bike does is skid on steep loose gravel. How can I experiment with air pressure without destroying my rims in the process?

BTW- I know I asked you this before-what do you carry for first aid supplys?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

misterbill said:


> How can I experiment with air pressure without destroying my rims in the process?


A little bit at a time, a soft rim strike will usually do no damage, but 40 psi is too much pressure for just about any off road situation. 30 is usually a better starting point. You've left out a lot of pertinent info however, tire type, width, etc.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> A little bit at a time, a soft rim strike will usually do no damage, but 40 psi is too much pressure for just about any off road situation. 30 is usually a better starting point. You've left out a lot of pertinent info however, tire type, width, etc.


Good advice. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the difference as you lower pressure. You will bounce around less and have better control and traction. Depending on the size and volume of your tires and how hard you tend to hit things, and how heavy you are, 30-32 lbs in front and 34-35 in back is a pretty safe starting point. The extra air in back is because the rear carries more of your weight. I usually run large 2.3 to 2.4 inch tires on a FS 29er. I'm not an aggressive rider, although I do hit lots of rocks and roots. I typically run 22-23 in front and 25-28 in back.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

misterbill said:


> BTW- I know I asked you this before-what do you carry for first aid supplys?


The previous two posts covered tire pressure experimentation pretty well.

My first aid kit isn't huge, but it's a little bulky. The primary reason is that I don't carry piddly little band-aids and crap. That stuff doesn't need trail-side first aid. Besides, you're sweaty and dirty and the band-aids won't stick. I carry a couple big, fluffy bandages for more significant wounds. Stuff to really stop bleeding. I carry a packet of Quick Clot. I carry a big triangle bandage (I rigged a sling and gave one to a guy on the trail who crashed and dislocated a shoulder a couple years ago). I carry some benadryl for bee stings and whatnot. I carry imodium (diarrhea when you're already dehydrated can be a major problem). I carry a few ibuprofen. I also have plenty of alcohol wipes, triple antibiotic, some povidone iodine wipes, some medical tape. I also have my tick removal stuff in there, a small pocket knife with scissors (to cut the moleskin). I think that covers most of it.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

demorules said:


> #2 Mistake is allowing fashion to take predominance over safety and common sense.


The irony in this valid point that a prominent poster in this thread stated that his primary criteria for eschewing certain protective gear is for "fashion reasons." Then when questioned, never came back to discuss that comment further. It was not on this site.

Another mistake is being obstinate about not taking the advice of greater experience or even discussing it when being less informed on a subject. There is a great illustration of that elsewhere on this site by the same poster.

So with that, I'll add only that having a good attitude about learning and about one's own mistakes is not only key to moving forward with a technical passion, but it's a good route to more social interaction with your peeps. Nobody loves a critic who can't take criticism.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

Worst mistake I have seen is spending blinding amounts of money on carbon to try and get faster, but not spending any money on skills clinics to actually get faster.


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> A little bit at a time, a soft rim strike will usually do no damage, but 40 psi is too much pressure for just about any off road situation. 30 is usually a better starting point. You've left out a lot of pertinent info however, tire type, width, etc.


I've been experimenting with lower tire pressure while debating going tubeless for awhile now.
I'm 190-200lb riding a 29" hardtail, and 40psi(_with tubes_) has become my go-to for general use. 
30psi was the end point for the rear tire today. Lap 2 of my loop canceled. It had started pouring rain, anyway, and fortunately the pinch flat happened less than a mile from my car.
Taken less than 2hrs ago:







Definitely going tubeless soon. I change pressure based on terrain, and lower pressure up front has been working great for techy XC with lots of switchbacks and tight turns.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

FWIW I'm 235lbs on my 29" HT and run 26psi in front and 30 in back tubeless with no problems. KOM23 wheels and 2.3 Butcher/Slaughter combo. I NEVER run more than 35PSI and only run that high on really smooth terrain.


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

dirtrider76 said:


> FWIW I'm 235lbs on my 29" HT and run 26psi in front and 30 in back tubeless with no problems. KOM23 wheels and 2.3 Butcher/Slaughter combo. I NEVER run more than 35PSI and only run that high on really smooth terrain.


Yeah, people would do well to give details like you just did, or at least say whether they're running tubes or not, and their weight.

My biggest mistake was not learning about, and experimenting with, geometry. 3yrs after buying my bike I finally started reading about getting a proper fit, instead of taking the word of the incompetent bozos at my ex-LBS. Now that I'm riding regularly, I have a lot more motivation to get better at..everything.

Couple of seemingly minor changes made a big difference for me. Even here, someone had commented that my seat was "too low" based on a pic of my bike. 
Turns out it was too high. Lowering and moving the seat forward and dropping the bars made me feel "in" the bike for the first time, and now I know I need to move the seat back toward the rear and get a shorter stem to really dial it in. The last couple of times I hit the trail, I've felt that my riding was noticeably improved, but it was just little things that probably should have been pointed out before I ever walked out of the store with my bike on day one.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

dirtrider76 said:


> FWIW I'm 235lbs on my 29" HT and run 26psi in front and 30 in back tubeless with no problems. KOM23 wheels and 2.3 Butcher/Slaughter combo. I NEVER run more than 35PSI and only run that high on really smooth terrain.


I have currently 26" 2.2 Race King Race Sport at front with Michelin C4 Latex Tube, rear is Continental Speed King 2.2 also 26" with Latex tube.

Weight was just moments ago 238 pounds.

Pressure at front is usually 22psi and rear 36psi when I ride smaller roads, tractor trails and such more fun stuff. Might go lower for rear to improve some out of saddle climbs, but I think that Latex tubes allow more flex at higher pressures and are perhaps bit more flat resilient than Butyl tubes, so for mercy of rear wheel I have kept pressure bit higher at rear.

Pressure on hard tarmac surfaces is then 43psi front and 65psi rear.

I don't ride seated on rough downhills, but also I don't use brakes on straight line so speeds can be quite high, hills are quite steep and there are plenty of rocks, but nothing big features, not much more of fist size stuff and most is lot smaller.

Fireroad like roads with potholes and crushed stone, speeds can get 37mph and even more, 25mph on roughest dual track stuff too, but so far I have not got flats.

Thing is of course that nowhere here is any drops, not even 1 foot drops, if doing drops, then surely it is not possible to run these kind of pressures, also I would not try this low pressures with butyl tubes either.

Flats I have gotten last time perhaps as a kid, tens of years ago, riding over some metal chips I think it was, so statistically I should start to have them soon, I guess.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jayem said:


> The guy I saw on the trail two days ago that had his helmet on backwards.


LOL
Did you at least let him know and then make him feel better by saying "don't worry we've all done it".


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

If I'm riding in a group with friends and notice something a less experienced rider could be doing better I'll ask if they would like a tip here or there, or if they want to figure it out themselves. 

Most teachable times are when I might clean a line that they miss on.
" I don't know what I'm doing wrong."
" I've learned this and that and it's helped me a real lot. You want to go again? I sure do."

Most helpful things have been

Keeping your eyes on the line you want to hit, not the line you hope to avoid...the tire wants to hit the thing you're looking at. (another twist on looking up the trail, plan where you want to go before you get there)

Hit it like you mean it...approach the steep drop at better than walking speed, hit the techy climb fast enough to clear the first obstacle, pedal over the crest of the hill. "He who hesitates gets tossed."

If you feel like you can't do a stretch safely you most likely won't...walking is always OK. The trail will still be here when you're ready for it.

Ride your own ride...don't let anyone pressure you into having less fun.

Any advice given that doesn't open the door to new success and encouragement probably shouldn't be given.

So far as braking and cornering, here's what I've learned.

There's almost no time when the front brake should used alone ( from Fluidride ). 
When the tires are rolling, that's when your getting traction ( Nathan Rennie).
By the time you get into the (first) corner you need to be looking down the track, that's were your going, down the track ( Eric Carter ). 
In the corners you need to lead with your head. Don't ride the same line just because everyone else does. Don't be a sheep, find your own way! ( Peaty ).


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

MOJO K said:


> If you feel like you can't do a stretch safely you most likely won't...walking is always OK. The trail will still be here when you're ready for it.


This is such a good point. It's one I've made over and over to those whom I introduce to riding, and sometimes I set the example by getting off and walking myself.

This past weekend I choked on a wooden bridge I've been over many times. For some reason that one day I wasn't "feeling it", so I stopped and walked it. Walking sure beat falling over the side.


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## Awshucks (Apr 14, 2013)

A lot of mistakes I see on the trail:

Running low PSI. Off roading your PSI needs to be at 40 PSI,

During steep descents keeping your weight back. You need to be far forward as to not fall backwards off the bike.

While turning you don't need to lean in the turn. Violently jerking your handlebars the direction you want to go at highspeeds will more than get the job done.

Hydrating is overrated.


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## jim c (Dec 5, 2014)

this is good^
or not


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Man a lot of good points on here, I think every rider has made each mistake at least once (technique wise not the common sense ones like helmet on backwards). One I have NEVER made is not shifting my weight back. Sometimes I "overdo it" but otb at speed.. I'd rather look dumb than risk an emergency room trip. Still occasionally get off line coming into a corner and end up trying to make a quick correction with the bars....and half the time end up laying on my side due to burping my tire. Happens every time I have a bad allergy day for some reason.....instead of just leaning hard and hoping tires dont slip, I make the front one wash out.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Awshucks said:


> A lot of mistakes I see on the trail:
> 
> Running low PSI. Off roading your PSI needs to be at 40 PSI,
> 
> ...


Hydration drinks are overrated.

A hydration pack full of beer will keep you going better than any hydration drink. Not only will you stay hydrated, but it will also improve your skills.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

Awshucks said:


> A lot of mistakes I see on the trail:
> 
> Running low PSI. Off roading your PSI needs to be at 40 PSI,
> 
> ...


Are you sure this is right? Didn't seem to work for me...


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

l'oiseau said:


> Are you sure this is right? Didn't seem to work for me...


You really have to follow his advice to the letter for it to work properly. Although I'd recommend something more than 40 psi tire pressure.

I'd just add that using the right tire for the conditions is not the best approach. Street slicks will work on pretty much all types of terrain better than whatever you have on your bike.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

I'll try more air pressure. My tires can take up to 60 psi I think.


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## Saladin (Sep 25, 2014)

l'oiseau said:


> I'll try more air pressure. My tires can take up to 60 psi I think.


Make sure that you check the pressure rating on both the tire and the wheel and, if different, pick the higher of the two, maybe even exceeding that a little bit. Those are just the manufacturer's known safe ratings. Most of them in testing pumped it up higher than what they say is safe before the seal actually blew.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

No one ever got ahead by playin' it safe.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Saladin said:


> Make sure that you check the pressure rating on both the tire and the wheel and, if different, pick the higher of the two, maybe even exceeding that a little bit. Those are just the manufacturer's known safe ratings. Most of them in testing pumped it up higher than what they say is safe before the seal actually blew.


All manufacturer ratings/specifications/warnings should be dismissed out of hand. They're just covering their asses from silly lawsuits.


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

Biggest mistake ever: Forgetting to have fun.


Unfortunately all too common.


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## Awshucks (Apr 14, 2013)

jmmorath said:


> Biggest mistake ever: Forgetting to have fun.
> 
> Unfortunately all too common.


Word.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

One of the best skills to teach children and young riders is the nose wheelie.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

JB Weld is the perfect solution for cracked frames and components.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

I find maximum tire pressure (60 lbs and up) is an aid to rocky high speed descents. I bounce so high off the first rock that I don't hit another one for 20 yards or so.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

I drink salt water. I get my hydration and my electrolytes in one shot!


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

There's nothing wrong with just putting the bike on the rack, pulling on a dirty t-shirt and driving straight to the bar...really just cuts right through the whole electrolytes, tire pressure, cornering technique BS. And remember that, while beer does have some hydrating value, water has no beer value.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

Beer is typically 90% water by mass... so it's hydrating you 90% as effectively as water.

I mean 90% is pretty good. How many kids get a 90% on anything?

Beer gets an A in my book - eff water... it's trying to hard.


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## Fuzzle (Mar 31, 2015)

This obsession people have with hydration thing can be serious business. This is what I read "overhydrated athlete is at a performance disadvantage and at risk of exercise-associated hyponatremia (EAH)--a potentially fatal condition." so I drink Hard Cider.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

l'oiseau said:


> Beer is typically 90% water by mass... so it's hydrating you 90% as effectively as water.
> 
> I mean 90% is pretty good. How many kids get a 90% on anything?
> 
> Beer gets an A in my book - eff water... it's trying to hard.


I would not go by that, you loose more water because of beer than what beer gives you.

drinking - Why does beer dehydrate you? - Beer Stack Exchange

There are some links to pee color charts that help you find out how bad the situation is:
How Much Water Do You Really Need? What Hydration Looks Like


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Grumpy, just a heads up. By page 5 on most of these threads,

"Any and all useful information, scientific or substantial, in whole or in part, shall cease. Bickering, sarcasm, whining, good natured harassment, and wit, all in good taste, and amusing, in whole or in part, as deemed by the MTBR community. is acceptable and appreciated." 

It's in the user agreement that none of us read when we accepted the terms. We can let this slide this time since, while scientific, a color pee chart is pretty funny. I'm opening a tavern at a major trail center and I'm considering framing this and putting it in the restrooms.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

grumpy old biker said:


> I would not go by that, you loose more water because of beer than what beer gives you.
> 
> drinking - Why does beer dehydrate you? - Beer Stack Exchange
> 
> ...


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

MOJO K said:


> Grumpy, just a heads up. By page 5 on most of these threads,
> 
> "Any and all useful information, scientific or substantial, in whole or in part, shall cease. Bickering, sarcasm, whining, good natured harassment, and wit, all in good taste, and amusing, in whole or in part, as deemed by the MTBR community. is acceptable and appreciated."
> 
> It's in the user agreement that none of us read when we accepted the terms. We can let this slide this time since, while scientific, a color pee chart is pretty funny. I'm opening a tavern at a major trail center and I'm considering framing this and putting it in the restrooms.


Well, I'm Grumpy  

I'm pretty sure that I have seen such on some restroom, i think it should be mandatory, as it is essential map when trying to avoid mister Hangover's visit, we must think the poor kids!


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## oilnewby (Jan 13, 2011)

Awshucks said:


> A lot of mistakes I see on the trail:
> 
> Running low PSI. Off roading your PSI needs to be at 40 PSI,
> 
> ...


I'm running tubeless; PSI at 22 in front and 25 in back. I will never run my PSI any higher than that.


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## oilnewby (Jan 13, 2011)

Not sure if it has been mentioned in the previous 5 pages of this post but "Speed" can be your friend when going over obstacles, roots, rocks, etc.

I have made this mistake many times of going way to slow over obstacles to then get jammed due to too little speed.

Controlled speed can help ride over obstacles which in my opinion is safer than going slow and getting kicked off or jammed.

Just my opinion


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

grumpy old biker said:


> Well, I'm Grumpy
> 
> I'm pretty sure that I have seen such on some restroom, i think it should be mandatory, as it is essential map when trying to avoid mister Hangover's visit, we must think the poor kids!


Signs in the restroom makes me think of one I saw in a old mill town bar. "Please Do Not Urinate in the Sink" When you see that, you know you're in a classy place.

And shades of yellow reminds me of a conversation I had with the owner when I was buying a Vassago Bandersnatch frame. He was thinking of naming one of the frame colors "Dehydration Yellow"


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

oilnewby said:


> Not sure if it has been mentioned in the previous 5 pages of this post but "Speed" can be your friend when going over obstacles, roots, rocks, etc.
> 
> I have made this mistake many times of going way to slow over obstacles to then get jammed due to too little speed.
> 
> ...


It takes momentum to get over trail obstacles. Momentum is defined as mass times velocity which means that you could also gain mass to get over obstacles. So, getting really fat will do the trick.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

Curveball said:


> It takes momentum to get over trail obstacles. Momentum is defined as mass times velocity which means that you could also gain mass to get over obstacles. So, getting really fat will do the trick.


It is indeed easier than gaining muscle, but muscle mass will give more speed while having more mass, which is more win.

Bit expensive because of wheel costs though.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

Harold said:


> The previous two posts covered tire pressure experimentation pretty well.
> 
> My first aid kit isn't huge, but it's a little bulky. The primary reason is that I don't carry piddly little band-aids and crap. That stuff doesn't need trail-side first aid. Besides, you're sweaty and dirty and the band-aids won't stick. I carry a couple big, fluffy bandages for more significant wounds. Stuff to really stop bleeding. I carry a packet of Quick Clot. I carry a big triangle bandage (I rigged a sling and gave one to a guy on the trail who crashed and dislocated a shoulder a couple years ago). I carry some benadryl for bee stings and whatnot. I carry imodium (diarrhea when you're already dehydrated can be a major problem). I carry a few ibuprofen. I also have plenty of alcohol wipes, triple antibiotic, some povidone iodine wipes, some medical tape. I also have my tick removal stuff in there, a small pocket knife with scissors (to cut the moleskin). I think that covers most of it.


You lost me again. I had my wife look at this(she had to get certified for first aid)she said she has most of those items. Probably would help if I learned what to do with them.

Thanks to all of you that replied with your advise on tire pressure.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

grumpy old biker said:


> It is indeed easier than gaining muscle, but muscle mass will give more speed while having more mass, which is more win.
> 
> Bit expensive because of wheel costs though.


Win is a half rack of PBR, a full rack of ribs, lying in the easy chair watching MTB videos.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Curveball said:


> Win is a half rack of PBR, a full rack of ribs, lying in the easy chair watching MTB videos.


A prophet, a shaman, a seer, pure visionary....


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## legitposter (Feb 16, 2015)

By far the biggest mistake I see is people not wearing elbow and/or knee pads. Its ridiculous. Even if its XC, they do realize one fall, even at slow speed, that puts their elbow or knee straight onto a rock will affect them for the rest of their life, right? It irrational. Like driving without a seatbelt.

I realize that we can dig deeper and say hey, what if the person wearing knee and elbow pads hits their chest? What if this, what if that? But falls are so common and the knee and elbows are such natural impact areas that it just blow my mind to see people dancing around on rocks at high speed with no pads at all.

Keep in mind I'm in Arizona where every trail is either on rocks or lined with rocks so maybe people in more dirt-ish areas won't understand why this bothers me so much.


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