# 27W LED head



## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

I just received two of these 27W 1400 Lumen 3x P7 LED lamp heads last night.

11v - 18v 27W rated. I hooked up 4x Panasonic 2.9AH 18650 Li-ion cells in series and used a Magicshine battery bag. I use 4mm female battery leads and added a 4 cell balance harness.

How does it work?
210grams for the head+bracket+removable rear fins.
160grams for the head only (this will work nice on a helmet)
Blows the Magicshine P7 away - lots more penetration and more spread
Nicer colour than the Magicshine. Looks like around 5000K.
Looks like 3x the light output of a Magicshine.
Cheap - I got mine for $50 USD + $40 for the batteries - ie a great light for under $100 USD.
Has a bar bracket included

Has several light modes, very low (1W I think), medium, full, 0.7hz flashing, and SOS. I seem to recall it remembers your last setting (I will double check this).

Bottom line:
This has got to be to cheapest and quickest way in to decent lighting. I is much better than a Magicshine. You will also need a inline switch and battery balancing charger (I recommend the Turnigy 6S 6A - do not buy a clone). 

BTW - RC users know that not balance charging will give only 100 charge/ discharge cycles or less, but balance charging and cell monitoring- ie properly looking after your batteries will give 500 cycles.

Sorry Mods - I got home late, so I did not get a chance to take photos - so I have posted the eBay ones here. There are also clips on Youtube - I will look for the links.

Note - currently not listed on eBay.


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## petriedav (Jun 26, 2007)

Do you know what drivers are in there?

Where can they be purchased?


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## georges80 (Jan 5, 2010)

My major comment would be that IF driven at the full 2.8A per P7 there better be thermal rollback in the driver or that thing will have serious issues for such a small package and minimal finning.

I've run thermal tests on considerably larger triple P7 light housings with substantially more fin surface area and even those housings required thermal management of the drive current to the LEDs to prevent the housing from going north of 60C.

The tab on that bracket looks pretty flimsy - does the bar clamp do away with the bracket?

cheers,
george.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Light has been posted once before. Not sure if it was here or over on CPF though. Not much of a splash.:skep: 
Not P7 though. Those are triple core leds so I have been guessing this is what is in the light. Led link.
Not sure of any other triple core out there, but someone here might have a better guess. 








Here is the  ebay link for the light.
Text from ad.

This auction is for 1 pc Black spotlight
Ultra bright 9-LEDs waterproof spotlight
LED life span over 10000 hours 
Good for running light: wide light angle & high brightness 
3W each LED of total 27W output; 1500 Lumens 2 Amps 
55mm (2.15") diameter x 66mm (2.6") in length 
Working voltage from 12VDC to 18VDC 
Anodized black aluminum light body 
A stainless steel "L" mount + an aluminum clamp mount 
Without using the clamp, can bolt on a flat surface 
Wire length is approximately 41 inches 
White wire positive & black wire negative 
Comes with male and female waterproof connectors 
Easily clamp to any 22~25mm tube or handlebar
Univsersal fit for bicycles, motorcycles, cars, trucks, boat.....


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## klynk (Apr 18, 2010)

*odtexas*
I think that's 3*P7 - one can clearly see 4 cores in all three LEDs.
*Pepster*
What's the runtime in middle and in maximum mode?


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## petriedav (Jun 26, 2007)

I think odtexas could be right there. If you look closely you can actually see only 3 emmitters per LED.

The email add also descibes it as 3W per LED = 27W (can only be 3 x 3 x 3)

But the link he provided is only 1W per emitter (ie 3W per LED) and the LED does look like it could be different (ie square emitters vs. round)

perhaps if Pepster could post a picture of the actual light, that'lll clear up the confusion.

would be interested to see what they are


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

I've seen the same thing advertised on auction as quad Q5 1500lm. I think when I questioned it they changed the spec to XPG R5. Then the auction vanished.


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## fujio001 (Nov 2, 2007)

Regardless of exactly what type of LED it is, the fact it puts out 1500 lumens for the price is huge. 

BTW, how is the finish and quality of the light housing? THe little piece of sheet metal where is mounts looks pretty weak. Is it removable?


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Light head can be found on Ebay in this store: here


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

There is a 3x3W version and a 3x 9W version - they both look the same.

I bought two 3x9W heads. there is a Youtube video where the manufacturer describes this in the comments - I will have a look for it.

Youtube links:


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

Yes, it does get warm after 5mins - but it is designed to be mounted on a moving vehicle.

The bracket is very strong - I am a 100kg+ strong guy and I cannot bend the bracket - this is designed automotive strong, ie much stronger than the average bike gear.


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

fujio001 said:


> Regardless of exactly what type of LED it is, the fact it puts out 1500 lumens for the price is huge.
> 
> BTW, how is the finish and quality of the light housing? THe little piece of sheet metal where is mounts looks pretty weak. Is it removable?


Yes, the bracket is removable - hence the different masses I gave after I weighed the components. The heatsink that holds the bracket simply screws of the back.

The finish and quality of the light housing is fist grade - not a single flaw or blemish.

The guys @ work are impressed - I could have sold several today...

I will post pics when I get home.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Whitedog1 said:


> Light head can be found on Ebay in this store: here


Okay, when I clicked onto your link I found this 1500lm lamp. This one looks to be using a single die emitter....??. ...so...unless they're using SST-50's, no way this is 1500lm...Damn, a triple with SST-50's would be sweet though, but heck...how could you sell a lamp with 3 x SST-50 for only $69.00? :skep: :skep: :skep: By the way, they don't tell you what emitter they actually are using. :nono: ( on this link )

edit...I would love to see some beam pics of one of these.:ihih:


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## Pogo217 (Sep 11, 2009)

I bought one of the 9w versions of these and they are not the greatest light i've ever seen, mine was £31 including shipping. I took it apart to have a look inside and it comprises of a disc of aluminium approx 4mm thick that the stars are attached to, they are attached with a white grease which allows them to move around and it is only the lense that keeps them in place.
The disc sits into the body of the light (which is very thin gauge) with no thermal compound, the driver floats around in the space behind the led disc and has no thermal path to the light body.
The led's themselves look very cheap compared to a cree, the dome sits about 3mm high and is squishy like its made of silicon and the star it is mounted to is approx 1mm thick, the link wires between stars are very small gauge single strand bare aluminium.

Personally I wouldn't buy another one and these make the magicshine look very very good, in the end I modified the disc to fit into the head of an old mag light i had and Artic adhesive some Xpe's onto it and used a Bflex to drive it.

Cheers
Paul


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## King Kasper (Jun 7, 2010)

changed mine out for MC-E's  works a treat! same driver and all!


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

klynk said:


> *odtexas*
> I think that's 3*P7 - one can clearly see 4 cores in all three LEDs.


You sure about that?
I guess when you say "one can clearly see" that you meant you are the only one.
Besides the ad states
"Ultra bright 9-LEDs" 
Sort of a give away there as well.


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## klynk (Apr 18, 2010)

odtexas said:


> You sure about that?
> I guess when you say "one can clearly see" that you meant you are the only one.
> Besides the ad states
> "Ultra bright 9-LEDs"
> Sort of a give away there as well.


Sorry, you're right. Tricky chinese LEDs... :skep:


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

Pogo217 said:


> ...these make the magicshine look very very good...


These 27W heads thrash the pants of a MAGICSHINE P7 - I have 2 of each. Check out these 1second beam shots attached:


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

8 second beam shots, below.
BTW - exposures longer than eg 3 seconds (depends on camera) are not a good idea due to reciprocity failure.


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

On the table


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Very nice beam shots there. :thumbsup: 
The 27W looks like a really nice beam pattern. 
Poor Koala, bet he isn't getting much sleep around those lights.


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

klynk said:


> *odtexas*
> I think that's 3*P7 - one can clearly see 4 cores in all three LEDs.
> *Pepster*
> What's the runtime in middle and in maximum mode?


Power consumption (4 cell pack approx 75% charged - but this shouldn't matter as the light is regulated) using a FLUKE73 and a 470uF low ESR switchmode cap to help dampen the switching noise:

HIGH = 23.8W
MID = 12.8W
LOW = 2W

The 2.9AH Panny 18650 cells I am using I have tested to have at least 3AH, but, using the 2.9AH rating (ie conservative), ie 3.7v x 2.9 x 4 = approx 43WHrs for this pack, ie

HIGH = 100mins
MID = 200mins
LOW = 1290mins = 21.5hrs

Yes, I know I claimed '9W' on mid one one beam shot, but this was with a cheapo mulimeter.


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

New ebay lisiting;
2x 1500Lm LED http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-1500Lm-LED-H...orcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a5e3c30ee

or there is something new now (does it ever stop?):

20W 1800lm High Power LED WORK LIGHT SUV 4x4 Truck ATV
http://cgi.ebay.com/20W-1800lm-High...248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cafad1748

a bit pricy though.


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## klynk (Apr 18, 2010)

*Pepster*
Thx for beamshots! Quite impressive.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Pepster said:


> New ebay lisiting;
> 2x 1500Lm LED http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-1500Lm-LED-HID-Driving-Lights-Bike-Car-12V-/250689106158?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a5e3c30ee
> 
> or there is something new now (does it ever stop?):
> ...


Here is a single 1500Lm Led head in the auktion: Klick

Ähmm and yehaa - nice beamshots! Thanks


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Pepster said:


> New ebay lisiting;
> 2x 1500Lm LED http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-1500Lm-LED-H...orcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a5e3c30ee
> 
> or there is something new now (does it ever stop?):
> ...


On the link for both the duel and single 1500lm lamp: The photo of the LEDs used in the ad are the same. Both show three single die LED's....so....what three single die LED are NOW being used to output 1500lm's @ 2200ma ? ...or are the photos bogus?

I'm glad that some beam pics were shown but sadly I wasn't too impressed. Photos using the typical MTBR settings would of been preferable. With all things in perpective, even if this lamp were brighter than a MS P-7 lamp I don't think I would buy one of these 1500lm lamps without knowing for sure what LED's are being used. The ad just doesn't say. :bluefrown:

As for the 20watt/ 1800lm lamp: This is likely using one of larger Single-die leds I've seen in other places. These super large leds are designed more for flood applications hence the optic designed to harness the wide flood beam @ 50 degrees. At 50 degrees half of your output is going off into the trees. Not sure I would buy something like that as it would kill my night vision.

Anyway, the thread is becoming borderline spam ( for whoever is selling these ) Sure would be nice to know a little more about what you get for your money without having to speculate.


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## klynk (Apr 18, 2010)

*Cat-man-do*
I suppose that's Luxeon Rebel in triples.
Look at the star - 
https://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=10703
And this is the Rebel LED -
https://www.philipslumileds.com/uploads/images/productphotos/lux-rebel-es-400.jpg
https://www.philipslumileds.com/products/luxeon-rebel/luxeon-rebel-white
Look very much like it's the same thing, IMO.


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> On the link for both the duel and single 1500lm lamp: The photo of the LEDs used in the ad are the same. Both show three single die LED's....so....what three single die LED are NOW being used to output 1500lm's @ 2200ma ? ...or are the photos bogus? _- not bogus - I took them !! - sometimes too much scepticism is a baaad thing !!!_
> 
> I'm glad that some beam pics were shown but sadly I wasn't too impressed. Photos using the typical MTBR settings would of been preferable. With all things in perpective, even if this lamp were brighter than a MS P-7 lamp I don't think I would buy one of these 1500lm lamps without knowing for sure what LED's are being used. The ad just doesn't say. :bluefrown: -_ let me assure you, the 24W (measured) lamp head I posted here looks like about 3x Magicshines worth of light. I used to run 2x Magicshines on my helmet, and I found my self wanting more light - hence the 25K+ Lumen headlamp was born...
> _
> ...


Well, a dyed-in-the-wool-sceptic I see.

I do not sell these, just bought 2 of them of eBay. Even though I think these lamp heads are the ducks nuts (for the price any how) I would not buy any more, becauseI have no need, annnd next week there wil be something better available.

The photos are not bogus - I took the beam shots (and Koala) last night in my back yard. The 24W lamp is definitely 3x the light out put of my Magicshines (I have 2 of these - so it is not a dud MS).

As for the "preferred MTBR settings", I would like to accomodate you here, except for 2 limitations:

1) - My camera does not have manual for longer than 1second exposure unless I choose the the 'night landscape' mode, then I can have 8 seconds and I have no choice on the ISO.

2) - Long exposures are generally a bad idea - have you heard of "reciprocity failure" ? Long exposures will tend to make the weaker lights look better - ie closer to the power-house lights. Why ? - After a couple of seconds, the CCD cannot gather any more light effectively and this falls of in a non-linear way and the true effect a power house light cannot be properly demonstrated. The weaker lights will thus effectively look relatively better.

Keep it clean - my nephews are reading this !


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

ouch...my eyes hurt after that last beam shot.


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## fujio001 (Nov 2, 2007)

Pepster,

Would it be possible to see the inside of the light housing? Like everything else in the DIY world, there is probably room for improvement.

It seems like this light with an inline switch and pack from batteryspace would make a very reasonably priced and easy DIY project!


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

Can you provide a link to a nice inline switch or a nice bar mounted switch?

I am about to look for something suitable - I did see one last week but lost the link...

You could consider a RC 4cell li-po pack, eg 3AH - can be found everywhere on the web.

An RC store I use (other than eBay) is Hobbyking (I have no affiliation) 
http://www.hobbyking.com

This has got to be the easiest way (and cheapest) to get 1500 lumens !

You will also need a balance charger (the CPF guys recommend the Turnigy 6cell 6A - do not buy the copies !)

And a battery monitor & buzzer is a very good idea (do not discharge under 2.5V), eg this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/RC-Lipo-battery...Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3efa52134a

it just plugs straight in to the standard charge balance port built into all RC li-po packs.


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

finch2 said:


> ouch...my eyes hurt after that last beam shot.


yeh, it is not really that bright...
That was my attempt to conform to the so-called MTBR rules for beam shots - ie 6second exposure.

Well... quite obviously 6seconds (my 8seconds do not make much difference) is far too long for big power lights.


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## zombinate (Apr 27, 2009)

I think all lights, from now on, should be measured on the "does it illuminate the koala?" metric.


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## fujio001 (Nov 2, 2007)

Poor Koala!


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## Bobblehat (Dec 1, 2007)

... or does it illuminate the Possum .....










... becoming very common here in downtown Liverpool ............................... UK!

Local scallies released them from the safari park!










Here's another ...the Mersey River Ringtail Possum ....note the resemblance to the local youth ...... beady eyes .... predominantly black garb .... sculking around in the dark etc.

I wonder if Oz has any laws about retina burning of the local wildlife!  .... We do on Merseyside ................... it's generally encouraged, even by the local constabulary ......... (but only if it walks on two legs and answers to "Ay! 'Ughes"!)

 [email protected]


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Pepster,
Yeah, I suppose I am somewhat of a skeptic. When I questioned the photo I wasn't referring to the ones that you took. I was referring to the ad photo of the front of the 1500lm lamp. ( see below ) I see no 3 x triple led clusters in this photo. This is the same photo used in the ad for the duel and single 1500lm lamp.

Now if the lamp you have does have the triple led clusters I suppose that is why your lamp is bright. If it is indeed a triple rebel cluster than I have to wonder how they have it wired. Each cluster has a 9.5 voltage drop. I guess that means these must be wire in parallel and that each cluster is getting around 733ma. I have no data sheet on the triple rebel cluster but I would think that should be enough for 500lm for each cluster if the clusters themselves are wired in series.

About the photos that you took: I couldn't understand why if you were using such long shutter speeds just why the photos came out looking so dark. However I'm not a big photo expert. When I take my photos I use a cheap Sony digital camera that has only one night setting. Mine come out as : Speed, 2sec.. F-stop, about 3.5 ...ISO, about 100. can't recall right off hand the MTBR settings but I really don't think the shutter speed was in the 6-8 sec range.

Anyway, my skepticism is only based on the fact that time and time again people and/or web sites claim high lumen outputs for their products but the actual output is somewhat less. This practice has almost become an industry norm. I should be used to this by now but I still find it irritating. I'm glad to hear that the one you have is impressing you. I only hope that if others buy one that they will get the same thing. ( the triple clusters that is.. ) My only real complaint was that the E-bay seller didn't really include any information on what Led setup was now being used..( not to mention the photo is misleading if the emitters are actually triple cluster rebels. )


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## Pepster (Aug 21, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> Pepster,
> Yeah, I suppose I am somewhat of a skeptic. When I questioned the photo I wasn't referring to the ones that you took. I was referring to the ad photo of the front of the 1500lm lamp. ( see below ) I see no 3 x triple led clusters in this photo. This is the same photo used in the ad for the duel and single 1500lm lamp.
> 
> Now if the lamp you have does have the triple led clusters I suppose that is why your lamp is bright. If it is indeed a triple rebel cluster than I have to wonder how they have it wired. Each cluster has a 9.5 voltage drop. I guess that means these must be wire in parallel and that each cluster is getting around 733ma. I have no data sheet on the triple rebel cluster but I would think that should be enough for 500lm for each cluster if the clusters themselves are wired in series.
> ...


No problems, Cat-man-do. It doesn't hurt to ask the questions.

Due to the variations in between cameras and photographic techniques, I will attempt to reference my pics against a well known light (eg against the very popular Magicshine P7).

I just purchased a new DIGITECH QM-1536 TRUE RMS AUTO-RANGE DMM yesterday.
True RMS DMMs use the heating effect of a thermal cell and are not fooled by screwy pulse-width or high RF noise signals.

Interestingly, my old FLUKE73 isn't too far wrong.

Some new tests using the True RMS DMM this morning:

High = 25W
Mid = 13W
L = 2.1W

I do not expect the step-down pulse width cct to use much power - as the cct I built from scratch on my 25K+Lumen Helmet light only uses 15mA !


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## Rege from Pittsburgh (Oct 1, 2010)

Hello everybody from Pittsburgh.

I have just received my 27w light, and would like to post my review.

Ordered it from the Hong Kong ebay vendor above, package arrived in about 2 weeks.

Vendor sent me a email asking for payment 2 days after the PayPal went thru:nono: 

First impressions:

Handlebar bracket is useless, there is no way to attach bracket to light.

So I used a auto hose clamp, works.

Lamp has ONE power setting.

Used a 12v lead acid battery and measured a bit over 2.2 amps draw with a Simpson [email protected] 13 v, so maybe a bit over 27 watts.

On to last nites ride:

Bungied a 12v LA battery to the rear shelf on the bike and hit the trail, this light is BRIGHT!

There is ONE light setting, HIGH 

About half the folks I passed commented on the light- "That's a bright light", "Man, I thought you were a car" 

Beam is perfect for riding a paved trail, lights up the trail a hundred feet.

The Bad:

Light was not getting more than warm to the touch, after about 20 minutes the thermal cut in and reduced the power to about 5 watts, then would cycle between 3 min high and 1 min low.

Got home, and opend up the light, the emitters were attached to a aluminum disc, just under 2 inches in diameter, and about 1/4 inch thick.

There is allmost ZERO thermal path to the housing, the disc is smaller than the housing, and the edge contacts the housing via a "step" in the ID of the housing less than 1/16" .

Additionally ther was only a spot of thermal compound about 1/6 of the way around. 

The driver board and thermal cutout are not attached to anything, they are kept from moving around by the wires being squished when you tighten the screws.

I added some compound, and reassembled the light.

The housing now gets much hotter, but I must have disturbed the position of the thermal cutout because the light now goes into low power much faster.

*****************

I am going to machine a aluminum disc to sandwich between the emitter disc and the housing, this should let some heat flow to the rear fins, as it stands out of the box the fins are not in the heat path.

This will require me to build a external box for the driver.

The thermal cutout is a simple 65C normally closed switch (opens when hot), I am going to add a toggle switch in series to give me high and low beams.

The emitters must have gotten pretty hot with the poor heatsink, but there are no apparent ill effects.

I'll report back in a few days with my results.

************************

At this time, I would consider this lamp to be a parts kit for the experementer and not a light for the plug-and-play folks.

Rege


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