# NOS American M16



## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

I wasn't going to post this until it was finished, but Rumpfy suggested I do so, plus it is going to be a long time before I get to it as other bikes are a priority, so here goes.

This is an American M16, most likely a '93 model. Picked it up from Ebay NOS. Notice the dropouts, a wheel has never been clamped in them. The frame is absolutely pristine and the only thing clouding the pictures are dust. There is a slight problem with two letters of the decals coming up but I'm going to fix these by either gluing them down or cutting new ones myself, but other than that, it's a beauty.

I've got a NOS headset and fork for it. I thought two American Stems (one for this one and a Comp-Lite I have) but can't find the second one. Working on procuring another American stem.

I've always like Americans and almost bought one instead of a Klein in the Fall of 1989, so when I can pick up a nice one, I do. I prefer the Comp-Lite to the M16 but hey, both are coolness. At first I was so-so about the color and would have wanted a polished one but the anodization has grown on me (well, not grown on me skin-wise but you know what I mean).

Anyways, here are the pictures and I'll be sure to post again when I get it built up.


----------



## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Two more.


----------



## Rubi13 (Jul 28, 2007)

Wow...nice looking bike!..Love the color...:thumbsup: 

The welds have an artistic quality to them


----------



## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Tealicious*

I'll second the Comp Lite preference.
I also prefer the older decals or non-baged frames but what can you do.
A new frame's a new frame


----------



## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Certainly less common thank Kleins. 


That should make for a cool project! What fork are you running?


----------



## RadBartTaylor (Dec 1, 2004)

*Oh wow*

I remember lusting after one of those for YEARS when I was younger.

Beautiful bike! If I remember correctly they had pretty short CS's and a very sloping TT for the time.

Awesome bike, what are you going to build it up with?


----------



## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Those have got to be some of the best looking welds ever laid down on a bike frame.


----------



## LIFECYCLE (Mar 8, 2006)

That is one nice frame


----------



## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Ah. Very nice. Can't wait to see it built up.


----------



## alohachiimoku (Apr 7, 2006)

what different between M16 and COMP LITE? frame geometry?


----------



## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

alohachiimoku said:


> what different between M16 and COMP LITE? frame geometry?


The Comp Heavy (oops, I mean Comp Lite) had 16.5" stays, and the M16 had 16" stays. Otherwise I think that the geo was the same.


----------



## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Those have got to be some of the coolest aluminum welds I've seen. very different than your standard fair. American, did they make some short guy stuff? I seem to recall a really short guy I worked with, getting an American back in the early 90's, saying it was the only one that worked well for folks his size. Nice bike, looking forward to some built pics :thumbsup:


----------



## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> American, did they make some short guy stuff? I seem to recall a really short guy I worked with, getting an American back in the early 90's, saying it was the only one that worked well for folks his size.


I'm not sure if American did, but Off-Road seemed to cater more to shorter people before they became Pro-Flex.


----------



## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Gawd I'd love to get one of them. I've always been a big fan of Americans if for no reason other than they were made 3 hours from me. Shoulda gotten one when I could, but I got mit by the Cannondale bug...bummer. Hated the 'dale. Those welds are just teh hotness.


----------



## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Certainly less common thank Kleins.


Actually I was expecting you to say 'less vulgar' than Kleins. That way you'd get an indignant rise out of me and then say, "Vulgar in the Latin-sense of the word meaning common" and I would go back to under my rock muttering about "Damn west-coast etymological snobs".

I don't recall them doing work for short people but that isn't to say that they didn't. I know that they did work for Breezer, Rodriguez tandems, softride (bikes with springy beams) and a few others, so it's possible they had something going on for shorter people.

One thing I've really liked about American's are the welds. Some people have said, "I've seen welds like that" and point to some bike over yonder. Yeah, it's the same welding process but it ain't the same quality. They did do a very nice job of that.

A few weeks after I picked this bike up, an NOS Comp-Lite in purple and my size came up. I was overseas at the time and didn't want to deal with it, besides I'm not a big fan of purple stuff. I certainly could have outbid them all as Americans tend not to go for big money as they are relatively unknown. Looking back, for a couple of hours of overtime at work, I could have had it. Oh well. Martini, keep your eyes open, they do show up time to time on Ebay, but be aware you'll have to bid against me and one other person on this forum whom I shall not mention but they know who they are...

Right now, I have a NOS XT threaded headset for it. The fork is a dark chrome switchblade (yeah, yeah Carsten, go ahead and grumblerft:, was looking for a Koski but couldn't find one), and thumbies. I guess I have (not 100% committed yet) black grafton brakes, XT flat-pedals, and BR-733 levers.

Laffeux called it a 'comp-heavy' and I think he is referring to the fact that American's as a whole tended to be made out of a little thicker metal than say a Klein. Someone I know who is familiar with both brands and prefers the American's for among other things, their durability, fwiw.

Ok, since you guys are diggin' the pics, I'll post a few more. Thanks for the complements on the ride & will post when complete.

P. Guin


----------



## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

pinguwin said:


> Laffeux called it a 'comp-heavy' and I think he is referring to the fact that American's as a whole tended to be made out of a little thicker metal than say a Klein. Someone I know who is familiar with both brands and prefers the American's for among other things, their durability, fwiw.


Yeah, I have a Comp Lite frame, and it's over 5 pounds. Considering a steel Bontrager of the same era was lighter than the aluminum American, gives it the name "Comp Heavy."


----------



## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

Looks fantastic Pinguwin and I love the colour. I just scored a NOS Deore XT-II rear hub (7 speed) that would be right at home on that frame, that's if you weren't going to use XTR for the hubs (or anything else for that mattter).


----------



## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

the "HOOVER" says...Oh Yeah!! Beautious welds and I'm diggin the color too. I've never seen Americans, but I'll be watching now..


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Yeah, I have a Comp Lite frame, and it's over 5 pounds. Considering a steel Bontrager of the same era was lighter than the aluminum American, gives it the name "Comp Heavy."


Thats odd, There must be some lead in those frames somewhere. I don't have the weight on my Breezer frame but I can tell you at one point I had that bike built down to under 21lbs.

I've changed it back to the XT groupe it came with but I remember pulling that frame out of the box and thinking holy s*&t this thing is LIGHT... Maybe it was because most bikes were tanks back then and I'm going senile but 5lbs?

I wonder if there's a difference in the Complite vs the other Americans. I would think the Breezers would be heavier with their longer chanstays.

At the time, the Americans had by far the best welds in the industry I agree with muddybuddy and MendonCycleSmith, I don't believe any bike had better tig welds till the Titanium bikes started showing up.

Nice bike Pinguwin:thumbsup: That thing should be fun on single track

hey btw what size, rise and color are your American stems?


----------



## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Anyone know what caused the huge improvement in Ti welds? The welds on my 88 Merlin are atrocious, but soon afterwards the welds become so pretty.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

*stack of coins*

They are pretty welds and I think the brochures called them a "stack of coins".

For some reason the frames dont do a whole lot for me, (although the older Breezer model does), but boy, the American stems are one of the prettiest ever made I think.

EL, your frame is good looking too. Im partial to the older decals.


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

bushpig said:


> Anyone know what caused the huge improvement in Ti welds? The welds on my 88 Merlin are atrocious, but soon afterwards the welds become so pretty.


They probably figured out they needed to purge the inside of the tubes while welding ti.

but I'm surprised your merlin had crappy welds I've never seen a merlin with crappy welds.
are you sure its a merlin and if so it hasnt been re-welded?

worst welds I saw on ti were early titec's (I believe thats what they were called)

not to hijack but do you have a pic?


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

bushpig said:


> Wanted: Manitou rigid fork!.


what you got cooking here?


----------



## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> EL, your frame is good looking too. Im partial to the older decals.


This thread made me pull the frame out. I have everything that I need to build it up (except the motivation). Soon though....


----------



## Guest (Sep 18, 2007)

crconsulting said:


> They probably figured out they needed to purge the inside of the tubes while welding ti.
> 
> but I'm surprised your merlin had crappy welds I've never seen a merlin with crappy welds.
> are you sure its a merlin and if so it hasnt been re-welded?
> ...


yes, the early Merlin welds are very different to the later ones.

that's frame no. 213 from mid 88. quite nice ones on the chain stay bridge but the other welds are all very irregular. looks like they were learning on the job




























ps, nice American but why did they forget to smooth the welds?

Carsten


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

Carsten said:


> yes, the early Merlin welds are very different to the later ones.
> 
> that's frame no. 213 from mid 88. quite nice ones on the chain stay bridge but the other welds are all very irregular. looks like they were learning on the job
> Carsten


   You guys are right, they look like s*&t
They must have fired that welder


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

Here's a pic of my old American t shirt, I always though they were kinda cool


----------



## Guest (Sep 18, 2007)

crconsulting said:


> You guys are right, they look like s*&t
> They must have fired that welder


...and then hired a more talented one


----------



## holden (Jul 27, 2004)

Carsten said:


> ps, nice American but why did they forget to smooth the welds?


haha

reminds me slightly of control tech stems, a fav of mine though i'm surprised not to see more here in the forum.


----------



## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Carsten said:


> ps, nice American but why did they forget to smooth the welds?


Lunchtime, hot chick walked into the shop midway through, meteor strike in the parking lot, welder spilled hot coffee on his lap, someone spilled hot coffee on lap of hot chick, someone got picked up by the fuzz for not paying child support, maybe it was getting late in the day and they got tired, or in December of 1989 some guy walked into the shop wearing some really sick cycling clothing and they all ran like hell out of the shop.

As the saying goes, "Pick two"

P. Guin


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

pinguwin said:


> was looking for a Koski but couldn't find one),


I think a Ritchey logic fork would also look cool on that bike. may be easier to find and would also work well.

I'm not sure what the rake is on those switchblade forks but it may work better with that logic fork just from a frame design standpoint.

:thumbsup:


----------



## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

at the malverns hills classic (for the UK readers)many, many years there was a stand with an MRC ti, fat chance yo eddy & american comp lite in purple. chatting to the dude on the stand turns out all 3 bikes were his. I was really impressed with the comp lite, just a solid looking build. nice rig  look forward to seeing the built up pics.


----------



## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

holden said:


> haha
> 
> reminds me slightly of control tech stems, a fav of mine though i'm surprised not to see more here in the forum.


Agreed, I've always thought the Control Tech stems were good. I'm still using one after 10 years. Similarly I've always loved the early-mid 90's Syncros stems for the appearance of the welds.


----------



## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Before we get too far off topic, more welds...


----------



## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

laffeaux said:


> Before we get too far off topic, more welds...


As someone who welds on occaision, I'd venture a guess that they are using fat rod, and a fairly high temp, this would give that large dime, and keep it flat. Any pros out there have a thought on it?


----------



## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*...And More...*

...And More...


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

since no one has posted any "whole" bikes

jeez get your bikes together....


----------



## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

*I Don't Weld But...*

...I watch them. As a CWI in the pipeline industry I guess I have some expertise...

If someone said "how where these welds made?" I would say SMAW with 1/8 or greater stick...not TIG. Probably slow to normal hand speed and good arc length control. Keep in mind that the pretty weld bead spacing does not lend itself to a good temp gradient, which is very important with aluminum. Does not mean you could not do the same with FCAW or GMAW, and it would certainly give you a cleaner weld with no chance of hydrogen embrittlement... But these welds reak of SMAW, which is a good process if applied correctly and much cheaper in application than other processes.

Note Aluminum stick welding is rare, but is done (usually DC).


----------



## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Nope, They're TIGed*

I've got a buddy that can lay down nice beads like that. Its a think of beauty!
He's not that consistant but I that could come with more practice.


----------



## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

Shayne said:


> I've got a buddy that can lay down nice beads like that. Its a think of beauty!
> He's not that consistant but I that could come with more practice.


I am no expert on the non-ferrous stuff so I stand corrected...but the fact remains that laying down a bead that long with wire and making it look pretty are one thing but it is another to maintain a good temperature gradient. There is appropriate bead overlap and there is pretty bead overlap.


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

On-One said:


> I would say SMAW with 1/8 or greater stick...not TIG..


If you look at the welds closely especially in areas that couldn't be polished out. They do exhibit the typical etch zone associated with GTAW.


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

On-One said:


> There is appropriate bead overlap and there is pretty bead overlap.


completely agree....

I probably wouldn't certify those for aerospace flight but they will hold OK for a bike and they sure look pretty!!

look at the bright side, the welds could look like Klein's


----------



## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

crconsulting said:


> If you look at the welds closely especially in areas that couldn't be polished out. They do exhibit the typical etch zone associated with GTAW.


Im not a white glove guy...are you referring to artifacts left from the sweeping motion used in GTAW?


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

On-One said:


> Im not a white glove guy...are you referring to artifacts left from the sweeping motion used in GTAW?


let me see if I can find a picture....

I don't believe I'll be able to get my camera's macro to get a good enough picture.


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

On-One said:


> Im not a white glove guy...are you referring to artifacts left from the sweeping motion used in GTAW?


found the perfect example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_tungsten_arc_welding

this area will look very different between the two processes.....


----------



## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

Cool...you see I learned something today...so today must be a good day...I didn't learn shiat yesterday...


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Anyone ever run across a Ball Burnished American ELF for sale, please let me know. My brother lost his to some dirtbag car theives in SF many years ago. He still talks about it.. Had Syncros Tubular Cranks, Wheelsmith Wheels (Nuke Hubs), was a 20" I believe.


----------



## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> Ball Burnished American ELF


What's an ELF? Also, what would a ball-burnished finish look like?

Pinguwin


----------



## RadBartTaylor (Dec 1, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> Anyone ever run across a Ball Burnished American ELF for sale, please let me know. My brother lost his to some dirtbag car theives in SF many years ago. He still talks about it.. Had Syncros Tubular Cranks, Wheelsmith Wheels (Nuke Hubs), was a 20" I believe.


Sweet bike man! I remember those suckers, must have been, say 1992 or so?


----------



## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

All I can remember is that they were BMX bikes that have veeerrryyyy peculiar double chainstays...pretty neat looking.


----------



## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

pinguwin said:


> What's an ELF? Also, what would a ball-burnished finish look like?
> 
> Pinguwin


BMX

E.xtra L.ight F.rames

yeah one model had twin chain stays , another with box section

bonus points: who remembers ELS(and what it stood for)?


----------



## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

extra lightweight shiat


----------



## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

hollister said:


> bonus points: who remembers ELS (and what it stood for)?


Electric Light Orchestra ....

no, no wait. that's not right.


----------



## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

On-One said:


> extra lightweight shiat


expensive lightweight sh!t


----------



## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

CRAP!!! I knew it was something like that. A buddy of mine had that oval shaped sticker on his bike. Was it a real company or a stupid sticker slogan?


----------



## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*recovering weight weenie*



On-One said:


> CRAP!!! I knew it was something like that. A buddy of mine had that oval shaped sticker on his bike. Was it a real company or a stupid sticker slogan?


sticker slogan as far as i know, i had the sticker on my down tube


----------



## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

Thats odd...you weren't my buddy were you?


----------



## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)




----------



## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

pinguwin said:


> What's an ELF? Also, what would a ball-burnished finish look like?
> 
> Pinguwin


ELF= Extra Long Front.

Shayne, love the brown anno.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> sticker slogan as far as i know, i had the sticker on my down tube


I thought it was an Action-Tec slogan.


----------



## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Thanks!*



~martini~ said:


> ELF= Extra Long Front.
> 
> Shayne, love the brown anno.


Yeah, that's what I remember ELF being, at least in the American context. They were some of the later frames sold correct? Like 1995ish just before they closed up shop?

Did you see the frame at the Crono swap when Nate was there? I had it inside early but put it in my car as I was sick of it on my shoulder.

And even more off topic: how did you fair with all the flooding last month?


----------



## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

KLF is gonna rock you!


----------



## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Doh. wrong place.


----------



## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Shayne said:


> Yeah, that's what I remember ELF being, at least in the American context. They were some of the later frames sold correct? Like 1995ish just before they closed up shop?
> 
> Did you see the frame at the Crono swap when Nate was there? I had it inside early but put it in my car as I was sick of it on my shoulder.
> 
> And even more off topic: how did you fair with all the flooding last month?


Yep, they were 'newer' models, as far as I recall.

No, I never did get to see it that day. Didn't even know you had it!

Rains? I was fine here, but trails were pretty much obliterated. Kinda sucks, but theres still enough to keep it interesting.


----------



## jpelaston (Feb 27, 2007)

the ELF with the double stays was the " Elf Double Cross". 
When i was racing BMW in or around 1990 i remember they were just coming out with that bike... i also remeber the kid in my class that was stomping all of us that was riding a Badd & Co. Ti BMX. WAYYY back then.... and so this isn't too much of a threadjack, That american M16 is sweet. I weld Aluminum for a living and I like to think I can weld just as good as that.. definately GTAW weld, probably 1/8" tungsten, probably around 120 amps with probably a 3/16" rod. not sure what gas they would use, but i use 75/25 % mix of argon and helium.


----------



## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

So how long until the Berilium American that was stolen at Interbike shows up on here. That would be a cool bike but not one that you could ever show off. Come on, anyone out there have it??? Grow some balls and show it off. :thumbsup:


----------



## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

AKamp said:


> Grow some balls and show it off.


It would only take some stones in terms of dealing with the social blowback of being a bike thief among a group of cyclists, but the statute of limitations ran out years ago. My two theories on it.

It's doing messenger duty in a big city covered up with rattle-can paint and electrical tape.

It's in the Columbian jungle on the walls of a rich drug kingpin next to his collection stolen Renoirs. Both of which would be hard to sell on the open market but he's the sort of guy who doesn't have to worry about such things.
​It's kind of a silly bike to steal in that it is noticeable and hard to resell. I guess we can only hope the thief tried to do some custom machining on it and died from inhaling beryllium dust 

Pinguwin


----------



## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*It Would Be Easy To Resell....*

Think about it...the thief stole it for nothing so whatever it sells for would be profit.

The number of people familiar with it and that could tell it from any other random bike is next to zero.

Not to re-open any wounds but FSP's Mantis stolen from interbike wouldn't be too hard to resell either...especially parted out. Sure you wont get top dollar but you can make a quick buck.


----------



## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Shayne, that's true. I guess what I meant is that it couldn't be sold openly as a beryllium bike. Steal a Comp-Lite and it could be sold openly as such. In Holland, a shop owner tells me that your nice, noticeable bike is less likely to be stolen as the junkies there just want to move it quickly for a $10 fix.

The other thing is that thieves see something shiny and grab it without thinking. Many years ago a group of thieves stole a shipment of the French equivalent of nickels. They weren't quite sure how to move them and eventually got caught as they were passing so many 'nickels' I read they played a lot of pinball with them.


----------



## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

It's funny, thanks to Pinguin, I got back into this thread, and had a few thoughts that seemed better in the stream here, than on my M16 thread. 

Early on, I mentioned a short buddy who got what I thought was an American. I must have stopped paying attention after a while, but it came up, he had an Elf. But it was an MTB, and it seems most were BMX. Am I missing something, or is time and age making a mush of things?

It was very short, like a 13" but yeah, long TT, he was no legs and all upper body.....

Thanks 'guin for bringing this back to the fore, now, you get this one done yet????


----------



## dunderhed (May 11, 2008)

Anyone have any photos or info of the American Steeplejack frame that was made for trials around '92 or '93?


----------

