# Generator lights. How do they compare?



## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

How would an Edelux or one of those supernova lights compare to the typical 1000 lumen headlight?


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

For the rider - less light, better placed. For oncoming traffic - less glare


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

aBicycle said:


> How would an Edelux or one of those supernova lights compare to the typical 1000 lumen headlight?


generator lights are mostly worthless. 100 year old technology ( generator ) versus current technology ( lithium ). the only reason they exist at all is because in Germany there was ( until last month ) a law that required all bikes to be sold with them ...


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

aBicycle said:


> How would an Edelux or one of those supernova lights compare to the typical 1000 lumen headlight?


I run a B&M cyo (much the same as the edelux) which gives a nice even 60 lux beam. Excellent for road riding, beats any of the "1000"lm systems, super reliable and you don't need to replace the batteries every few years.
headlight beams from Peter White Cycles


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

basically Dynamo lights are good if you don't need a lot of light. there is some convenience and peace of mind in never having to recharge anything or buy new batteries, but the total amount of light will be limited.

you should figure about maybe 200 Lumens for a good Dynamo light, which could beat a bad "1000 lumen" chinese light that actually produces 500 Lumens and has an awful beam pattern. but a good Dynamo setup will cost hundreds of $ while that said bad chinese light will cost $50, so it's not really a fair comparison is it ?

if you compare that B&M Dynamo setup to something like L&M Stella 500 then the Dynamo light will be dimmer, the beam pattern will only be marginally better, it will create drag when you ride and and if you have more than 1 bike you will not be able to easily switch the light from one bike to another.

Busch & Muller will soon begin coming out with lithium powered IQ2 lights at which point there will no longer be any reason left to use Dynamos at all.

of course some people will continue to use Dynamos just like there are still people who use Vinyl records and Vacuum Tube amplifiers. and just like them, they will continue telling everybody that we're all doing it wrong and that Vinyl or Vacuum Tubes is the ONLY way to go, or that Dynamos are the best, that Stick Shift is better than Double Clutch, that "steel is real" etc.

there is nothing we can do about these people


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Do you have any experience with any modern dynamo lights Androgen? 

What are you doing in this thread?


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

znomit said:


> Do you have any experience with any modern dynamo lights Androgen?
> 
> What are you doing in this thread?


well i have the battery powered Philips SafeRide and i know that the Dynamo version of the same light is pretty much the same but LESS powerful.

admittedly it was the battery life, not output that made me dump the SafeRide.

but if you consider that for example an Ultegra bike will cost you several hundreds more than a 105 bike for example and it will maybe give you 0.1 mph advantage compare this to a Dynamo light that will probably cost you 0.5 mph and you see that actually the Dynamo light maker should pay YOU hundreds of dollars to use their product, not the other way around.

our legs simply don't produce enough power to drive big lights without feeling the drag no matter how efficient the dynamo itself is. let's assume that you're putting out 200 watts when you're riding and that your Dynamo is 100% efficient and that your light is 10 watts ( like Lupine Piko ) well that will be a very noticeable drag of 5% - that's as much drag as your entire drivetrain. that's why Dynamos only produce 3 watts - enough to drive half an XML LED.

even if LED efficiency improves the Dynamo lights are still going to be behind Lithium lights because LED efficiency of lithium lights will improve by the same amount.

Tesla Model S is lithium powered and puts down 400 horsepower, that's about 300,000 watts. That's 100,000 times more power than a hub dynamo produces. That's the power of Lithium.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

I second znomit's suggestion. You have no experience with dynamo lights and you should stfu.


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## 6ix (Sep 12, 2013)

androgen said:


> generator lights are mostly worthless. 100 year old technology ( generator ) versus current technology ( lithium )


Listen to your fellow electrical engineer. Why are you dynamo & generator inventors so obtuse? Sell your companies and labs right now. Not only are they worthless tomorrow you will lose your kid's college fund because....


androgen said:


> the Dynamo light maker should pay YOU hundreds of dollars to use their product, not the other way around.


OMG! Sell Sell Sell.



androgen said:


> our legs simply don't produce enough power to drive big lights without feeling the drag no matter how efficient the dynamo itself is.


Equivalent power is used if you didn't have excessive batteries and lights on the bike. That 1 kilo worth of lights on the helmet is OK:thumbsup:. Factoring in vacuum between the ears there is no net weight gain on the shoulders.


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

You people are some opinionated mother ****ers, you know?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

aBicycle said:


> You people are some opinionated mother ****ers, you know?


Don't pay any attention to Androgen's answers. He is prone to insulting anyone whose opinions differ from his. 6ix is poking some crap at Andro, not you. Znomit is solid. He will have sound advice based on real world experience. Others may chime in with Dynamo light opinions, some may be good, others not so much. Since dynamo lights are less prevalent in mountain biking than road biking, you may get more advice/experiences on a road oriented forum.


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

On those lights, the supernova said it only output like 300 lumens. How can that compare with 100 lumens?

I see that the lux ratings are high, which I find strange, especially in light of the fact that the luxos beams are insanely wide.

What's going on here? Why don't the numbers add up to the output?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

androgen is the big reason why I don't spend any time on this forum, it seems such a waste of time when it's mostly him talking to himself.

anyway aBicycle, nevermind all of that. Talk to ktronik off here and do some digging and you'll find a couple of interesting dynamo lights. With a modern hub generator you can get a decent power output and very little drag when not in use. They're not as common as they probably should be, despite their convenience and decent output, largely because of the inherent cost (mostly in the hub and wheel build) of buying one. Plus you're somewhat restricted to one bike, unless you can swap wheels between bikes.

If I had the cash I'd love to make one for my commuter. I couldn't think of anything more convenient, plus when the weather's truly crappy, there's no standing around in the snow fumbling with lights throw thick gloves. Just switch on and go. However, I don't have the cash, so I'll keep using my battery powered lights


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

aBicycle said:


> I see that the lux ratings are high, which I find strange, especially in light of the fact that the luxos beams are insanely wide.
> 
> What's going on here? Why don't the numbers add up to the output?


well a good beam is wide but flat, with most of the brightness concentrated in just a narrow strip of light along the horizon. if that's where the Lux is measured it will be quite high.

here's SafeRide beam projected onto a wall:










this beam looks very wide and even on the ground, but when projected on the wall it has a very sharp hotspot, which is how it gets 80 Lux despite only having about 350 lumens.

note however, that Lux measured by Germans are at 10 meters, and has nothing to do with MTBR Lux as measured in MTBR lights shootout which uses a completely different measurement that isn't even related ...


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

aBicycle said:


> On those lights, the supernova said it only output like 300 lumens. How can that compare with 100 lumens?


Supernova E3 is >600lm measured, so ballpark to what you get from your typical "1000lm" single XML light. 
Supernova E3 TRIPLE quality features

What are you using it for?


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

znomit said:


> Supernova E3 is >600lm measured, so ballpark to what you get from your typical "1000lm" single XML light.
> Supernova E3 TRIPLE quality features
> 
> What are you using it for?


if LEDs only produce 100 lumens per watt and dynamos only produce 3 watts how can it have 600 lumens ?

i'm not disputing it, i just want to know how this is possible ?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

androgen said:


> if LEDs only produce 100 lumens per watt and dynamos only produce 3 watts how can it have 600 lumens ?
> 
> i'm not disputing it, i just want to know how this is possible ?


Dynamos produces a constant current of 500mA, which is 3W with a typical incandescent bulb, but >10W with the right circuit. 
Bicycle Electronics, Power LEDs, Dynamos and Batteries, Driver Circuits


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

znomit said:


> Dynamos produces a constant current of 500mA, which is 3W with a typical incandescent bulb, but >10W with the right circuit.
> Bicycle Electronics, Power LEDs, Dynamos and Batteries, Driver Circuits


wait a minute. 6 volts X 0.5 Amps = 3 watts. watts can be LESS than the product of amps and volts ( if the load is reactive ) but can never be more. so the only way watts can be more than 3 is if either voltage is more than 6 or current is more than 0.5

?

anyway i have good news ! i registered on CPF so soon there will be less of me on here ...

rejoice !


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

Okay, so they both measure lumens differently, supernova and mtbr.com that is.

What does 200 lumens for the e3 pro 2 and 600 for the e3 pro triple equate to then?

And it would be used for dirt roads, good roads, some off road, etc.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

aBicycle said:


> Okay, so they both measure lumens differently, supernova and mtbr.com that is.
> 
> What does 200 lumens for the e3 pro 2 and 600 for the e3 pro triple equate to then?
> 
> And it would be used for dirt roads, good roads, some off road, etc.


no all Lumens are the same. but Lux are different.


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## h2o-o (Jun 14, 2011)

androgen said:


> wait a minute.
> ...
> anyway i have good news ! i registered on CPF so soon there will be less of me on here ...
> 
> rejoice !


u will soon b evicted from CPF, see rule 4892, attidude


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

h2o-o said:


> u will soon b evicted from CPF, see rule 4892, attidude


this is your first post on the forum ? it's the only thing of value you had to say ? nice.


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

androgen said:


> wait a minute. 6 volts X 0.5 Amps = 3 watts. watts can be LESS than the product of amps and volts ( if the load is reactive ) but can never be more. so the only way watts can be more than 3 is if either voltage is more than 6 or current is more than 0.5


A dynamo is not a battery (ie a voltage source) it is a (constant) current source.

Please read the link above, here is a pic from it







Bicycle Dynamos

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

HakanC said:


> A dynamo is not a battery (ie a voltage source) it is a (constant) current source.
> 
> Please read the link above, here is a pic from it
> View attachment 836010
> ...


fine, i will take your word for it. so if it can deliver 10 watts then assuming 100 lumen / watt from LED and 80% efficiency from the light system overall let's say then a Dynamo light can in theory produce 800 lumens.

that would actually be pretty good, because most people run their lights at 50% power most of the time, so it would be comparable to 1600 lumen light in this way.

Dinotte XML3 which is a 1500 lumen light is $229 so we can say that a Dynamo system would be comparable to this, and while the Dynamo system will probably cost more, battery replacement and spare batteries also cost something so i guess if your rides are very long where you can run out of battery and if you don't mind the drag then i guess Dynamo can be a good solution.

my logic for Dynamos being worthless was based on 3 watts assumption - i didn't think manufacturers would lie and claim that their 10 watt dynamo is actually 3 watts ...

sometimes stuff just doesn't make any logical sense ...


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

androgen said:


> fine, i will take your word for it.


Don't
Why not learn how dynamos work?



> my logic for Dynamos being worthless was based on 3 watts assumption...


...


> sometimes stuff just doesn't make any logical sense ...


It is logical, an electrical engineer can explain the difference betweeen a battery and a dynamo to You.
Or You could read up on dynamo basics by Your self:
Bicycle Dynamo Basics

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

aBicycle said:


> How would an Edelux or one of those supernova lights compare to the typical 1000 lumen headlight?


I have the economy cousin of the Edelux, namely the Cyo 60-lux, and I have had a variety of high-output battery lights like my DiNotte 1200+ dual-quad. In a nutshell, the Edelux or Cyo 60 are are great for riding on a dark highway, but not good for riding off-road. They have a relatively long, narrow beam and they put a lot of their light way down the highway so you have time to react to, say, lumber that fell off a truck. The beam has a pretty strict horizontal cutoff, so you get only trivial amounts of "be-seen" light above the horizon. Nice for oncoming traffic, particularly pedestrians or cyclists.

The flood beam of the DiNotte 1200+, is great for mountain biking because it'll light up stuff well above the horizon, like tree branches or the opposite side of a G-out you're diving into. The "spray light everywhere" beam pattern is also good for showing up in nasty city traffic. But on a highway, it tends to overilluminate the area right in front of the bike. Your eyes adapt to that bright zone at a uselessly-close range, and you have difficulty seeing that piece of lumber 4 seconds out. Sometimes less is more, if it's in the right place.

In my case, I also have had frustrations with battery lights in cold-weather training. Oh yay, I've been out for 30 minutes and my light's signaling LOW BATTERY :madman: Not a problem with dynamo. The endless endurance is sometimes handy too... I completed a one-month 1500-mile Strava challenge on dynamo power, doing up to 70-80 miles per night on a state highway. Or in one case, 100 miles: Bike Ride Profile | Slow nighttime 100-miler to Steptoe & back near Spokane | Times and Records | Strava

Since you mentioned Supernova, I can also remark that I had one and wasn't impressed with it. If you want a highway-riding light, get the Cyo 60-lux or Luxos B, or wait for the Cyo Premium or Edelux II. If you want an off-road dynamo light, maybe one of Kerry's Klites. I think I'm going to get the 1000lm version for my XC bike, I've already got a suitable dynamo wheel.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

mechBgon said:


> The flood beam of the DiNotte 1200+, is great for mountain biking because it'll light up stuff well above the horizon, like tree branches or the opposite side of a G-out you're diving into. The "spray light everywhere" beam pattern is also good for showing up in nasty city traffic. But on a highway, it tends to overilluminate the area right in front of the bike. Your eyes adapt to that bright zone at a uselessly-close range, and you have difficulty seeing that piece of lumber 4 seconds out. Sometimes less is more, if it's in the right place.


well i have a "spray light everywhere" Light & Motion Seca on the helmet and i actually had to add a second light on the bar just to fill in the the light at close range because of how throwy the Helmet Mounted Seca is.

if you mount a bad light on the bar you will have the problem you described. IMO dinotte does not and never has made a good headlight ( just like they have never made a bad tail light ).

by raising your dinotte to the helmet height you would have immediately cut down the nearfield illumination by a factor of 2X to 3X without sacrificing the throw.

i would describe the beam pattern of Dinotte, Lupine and other low quality head lights as cylindrical. i would describe beam pattern of Light & Motion, Niterider and other good lights ( there aren't any other good lights though ) as conical. a proper "conical" ( in my terminology ) beam pattern when angled down slightly from horizonatal will produce exactly even lighting from the front tire to the point where it is aimed. a "cylindrical" beam pattern will project a bright and ugly ring of light a few feet in front of the bike and darkness everywhere else.

don't be hating on powerful lights. try a Seca.

here is what i mean by conical vs cylindrical ( they're not good terms, i just made them up ) :

the red line in top graph is a conical beam. the bottom graph is a cylindrical beam.



















the "cylindrical" beam usually results from optics and is appropriate for tail lights. "conical" beam usually results from reflectors and is appropriate for headlights.


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

mechBgon said:


> I have the economy cousin of the Edelux, namely the Cyo 60-lux, and I have had a variety of high-output battery lights like my DiNotte 1200+ dual-quad. In a nutshell, the Edelux or Cyo 60 are are great for riding on a dark highway, but not good for riding off-road. They have a relatively long, narrow beam and they put a lot of their light way down the highway so you have time to react to, say, lumber that fell off a truck. The beam has a pretty strict horizontal cutoff, so you get only trivial amounts of "be-seen" light above the horizon. Nice for oncoming traffic, particularly pedestrians or cyclists.
> 
> The flood beam of the DiNotte 1200+, is great for mountain biking because it'll light up stuff well above the horizon, like tree branches or the opposite side of a G-out you're diving into. The "spray light everywhere" beam pattern is also good for showing up in nasty city traffic. But on a highway, it tends to overilluminate the area right in front of the bike. Your eyes adapt to that bright zone at a uselessly-close range, and you have difficulty seeing that piece of lumber 4 seconds out. Sometimes less is more, if it's in the right place.
> 
> ...


Be nice to know which supernova you had. They have one that's 800 lumens now.

And I don't do just off road or on road riding. I do all sorts of riding in the same ride (if you count the dirt roads as off road which it really is). I need both and wide, long, and tall beam, and I don't just ride highway or city in the same ride, I ride both. So....  on the light makers.


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

And where do you get these kerry's klites lights?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

aBicycle said:


> And where do you get these kerry's klites lights?


www.CNCdelite.com


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

aBicycle said:


> Be nice to know which supernova you had. They have one that's 800 lumens now.
> 
> And I don't do just off road or on road riding. I do all sorts of riding in the same ride (if you count the dirt roads as off road which it really is). I need both and wide, long, and tall beam, and I don't just ride highway or city in the same ride, I ride both. So....  on the light makers.


NiteRider Pro 3600 DIY on bar, Seca 2000 Enduro on helmet. will cover all your needs no matter where you ride.


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

Yeah, at only a grand it's such a steal! *rolleyes*


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

androgen said:


> well i have a "spray light everywhere" Light & Motion Seca on the helmet and i actually had to add a second light on the bar just to fill in the the light at close range because of how throwy the Helmet Mounted Seca is.
> 
> if you mount a bad light on the bar you will have the problem you described. IMO dinotte does not and never has made a good headlight ( just like they have never made a bad tail light ).
> 
> *by raising your dinotte to the helmet height you would have immediately cut down the nearfield illumination by a factor of 2X to 3X without sacrificing the throw.*


I see your point, but having the light at or above eye level has a drawback: stuff that protrudes from the surface (rocks, lumber, washboard) no longer casts visible shadows to assist in identifying hazards that have height. Stuff looks flat. I always use my more powerful light at bar level or fork level to skim the terrain surface for that reason, e.g. the Midnight Century Special config shown below, where the course involved lots of washboard that I wanted to avoid, and the lower light position made it easier to spot it.



The DiNotte got me to mile 54 of 95 before deciding HEY, IT'S SORT OF COLD, I SHOULD SIGNAL "LOW BATTERY!" I've contacted DiNotte about it and I think they basically want to keep using the same circuit for the rest of eternity instead of addressing how it accounts for battery life at low temperatures. NiteRider's stuff is good in that respect, it actually does the math.

I had a Seca when they first came out, and did try it on my helmet, and it was pretty impressive insofar as throw + fill.



> And where do you get these kerry's klites lights?


He just put up a new site at klite.com.au. Through-axle dynamos, anyone? 



> Be nice to know which supernova you had. They have one that's 800 lumens now.


They claim it's 800 lumens, yeah. Reports are that it's really not. The model I had was the E3 Pro (single LED) in the "glare-free" asymmetrical beam, which I wanted for road riding. It had a pretty pathetic beam... too wide, not nearly enough throw. Might be good if you ride a bike path at 10-15mph and need to keep track of where the edges are. I got the 60-lux Cyo next and that was much better for the highway. Neither one is any good off-road.

*edit:* I forgot to add that the Cyo's standlight walks all over the Supernova's standlight, too.



> And I don't do just off road or on road riding. I do all sorts of riding in the same ride (if you count the dirt roads as off road which it really is). I need both and wide, long, and tall beam, and I don't just ride highway or city in the same ride, I ride both. So....  on the light makers.


I'm with you on that. At the moment, I consider my Cyo and Luxos to be the "baseline" low-beam light that I can just run day or night, and add one of my battery-powered lights for a boost in city visibility, or my DiNotte and a helmet-mounted flashlight for off-roading. At least I can save my battery power until I'm actually at the trailhead.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

mechBgon said:


> At the moment, I consider my Cyo and Luxos to be the "baseline" low-beam light that I can just run day or night, and add one of my battery-powered lights for a boost in city visibility, or my DiNotte and a helmet-mounted flashlight for off-roading. At least I can save my battery power until I'm actually at the trailhead.


i was considering the Luxos as a "baseline" light as you say, but damn, with the dynamo and the wheel it is a lot of money for a "baseline" light. i opted for Dosun D400 instead, which ended up being $175 which i had to order directly from Taiwan. it's bright ( i have videos on youtube ) but the cutoff isn't sharp enough to make it throw. oh well, at least it wasn't as expensive as the Luxos LOL.

the other night i was riding and i realized i really want something throwier than the Dosun on the bar, even if it means using a light without cutoff. in fact i know what i want - i want the NiteRider Pro 3600 DIY there, which i already had last year anyway - but i can't afford it now.

when i ride on the road there is usually some light all the way to the horizon, and i just need extra light in the mid-field range ( ~ 10 - 15 meters ) to see the road surface. but when i was on the trail-ish path its just my beam and nothingness beyond it, and when i was going downhill i just felt like i have no idea where i'm going - i had this path in front of me that just gradually disappears into nothingness after about 40 meters or so that 2 X Seca 1700 on the helmet were giving me ... of course 40 meters is more than enough to stop even from 30 mph but i need to see where i'm going to be motivated to pedal faster. if i see a wall of blackness in front of me my brain will automatically begin to back off from pedaling ever so slightly, and i'm just not going to get the same workout.


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## Ricky J (Jul 17, 2005)

*Why Bother?*

With the market awash in cheap and bright lights from Asia why even consider a dyno hub to begin with? Unless you are someone with the stamina to ride all night, or who wants to eliminate the charging and battery hassles, go with cheap 'n' easy! When it dies throw it away, get another.

But if bicycling "off the grid" and unplugged is where you're at the choice is simple.


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

Ricky J said:


> With the market awash in cheap and bright lights from Asia why even consider a dyno hub to begin with? Unless you are someone with the stamina to ride all night, or who wants to eliminate the charging and battery hassles, go with cheap 'n' easy! When it dies throw it away, get another.
> 
> But if bicycling "off the grid" and unplugged is where you're at the choice is simple.


They each have their strengths and drawbacks. Like I mentioned, low temperatures have been a hassle for me with battery lights. When a light is supposed to run for 2-3 hours on HIGH, it's really disappointing to have it flaking out after 30 minutes because it's cold, when I'm just getting into my stride. Not an issue with dynamo. If I want to ride for hours and hours, I don't have to meter out my battery power, either.

Modern dynamo stuff is also very reliable. If you're out for a 3-5hr sufferfest in wintertime, it's nice to have lights that will work until you actually fall over dead. 71 miles in February, at night, with 6300ft of ascents? Sure, why not. Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Climbing overdose deluxe near Spokane | Times and Records | Strava I'll bring a battery light as a secondary for fast descents.

OTOH, if you need an off-road style beam pattern, dynamo options are scarce. Very niche.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

mechBgon said:


> OTOH, if you need an off-road style beam pattern, dynamo options are scarce. Very niche.


You can DIY.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/my-dynamo-diy-setups-870991.html


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## PaulRivers (Jan 2, 2009)

Ricky J said:


> With the market awash in cheap and bright lights from Asia why even consider a dyno hub to begin with? Unless you are someone with the stamina to ride all night, or who wants to eliminate the charging and battery hassles, go with cheap 'n' easy! When it dies throw it away, get another.
> 
> But if bicycling "off the grid" and unplugged is where you're at the choice is simple.


Why bother with the hassles of a battery light when you can get a dynamo light that you don't even have to think about?

A battery light is like that flashlight you keep in the closet - half the time when you go to use it the battery in it is dead. If you use it on a regular basis, the battery is usually charged, but sometimes you forget. Other times it's not with you when you need it.

A dynamo light is like the headlights on your car - they're always there, and they just work. Do you ever think "I've been using the headlights on my car for a while, guess I need to charge them inside when I get home"? No? Of course not. That's the level of non-hassle you have with a dynamo light that you don't get with a battery light.

Concerns when riding with a battery light:
- Did I remember to charge the battery from last time?
- Is the light on the bike?
- How much runtime do I have left?
- How much battery capacity do I have left even when the battery is fully charged?
- If it's cold out, is the battery going to die sooner than normal?

I have several battery lights myself, and have had problems with each of these.

Concerns when riding with a dynamo light:
- (this space intentionally left blank)

EDIT: I'm responding to the other post, battery lights have their advantages as other people have already commented. But "absolutely no hassle once set up" is the biggest advantage of a dynamo light, and I find it annoying when people claim battery lights are "easier" somehow.


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi guys!

https://dx.com/p/xc-997b-cree-3w-200lm-3-mode-white-led-bicycle-bike-light-4-x-aa-108640

I intend to buy this bike light and mod it to run off a dynamo hub.

Anyone tried to do this yet?


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## PaulRivers (Jan 2, 2009)

Khrystyan27 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> https://dx.com/p/xc-997b-cree-3w-200lm-3-mode-white-led-bicycle-bike-light-4-x-aa-108640
> 
> ...


That's unlikely to work. Batteries put out direct currently, dynamo's put out alternating current.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Khrystyan27 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> https://dx.com/p/xc-997b-cree-3w-200lm-3-mode-white-led-bicycle-bike-light-4-x-aa-108640
> 
> ...


on a scale from 1 to 10 where 1 is the worst idea i have ever heard and 10 is the best idea i have ever heard i would rate your idea at about ... 3


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

PaulRivers said:


> Concerns when riding with a dynamo light:
> - (this space intentionally left blank)


Well, I touched on one of dynamo's drawbacks earlier. If you want an off-road beam pattern, there just aren't many options out there right now. Exposure Revo 4, Klite, maybe Supernova E3 Triple. Any others?

I've ridden off-road with dynamo lights that have the vaunted German-spec cutoff beam. Scary experience. They're great for the highway, and I just ordered up the new Cyo Premium for that scenario.

The other concern is that the cutoff-style beam, intended to be friendly to oncoming traffic, may not be enough to get noticed in heavy traffc, or another example is riding in a bike lane next to high-turnover parking spots, where you need to be seen by people about to throw their door open or pull out of their parking spot after a glance in their mirror. For these situations, even a small "sprayer" light will help, especially if it has a flashing or pulsing mode. The latter criterion pretty much rules out dynamo lights, I have yet to see a dynamo light with a pulse or strobe setting.

So for myself, I consider dynamo a great baseline, especially for road (or off-road if you can afford an off-road model) and may throw on battery lights for their own merits.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

mechBgon said:


> So for myself, I consider dynamo a great baseline and may throw on battery lights for their own merits.


good strategy for those who can afford it.


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## PaulRivers (Jan 2, 2009)

mechBgon said:


> Well, I touched on one of dynamo's drawbacks earlier. If you want an off-road beam pattern, there just aren't many options out there right now. Exposure Revo 4, Klite, maybe Supernova E3 Triple. Any others?


The regular Supernova as well. Not as expensive as the triple, but it's a regular round beam.



mechBgon said:


> I've ridden off-road with dynamo lights that have the vaunted German-spec cutoff beam. Scary experience. They're great for the highway, and I just ordered up the new Cyo Premium for that scenario.


Yeah, they're not meant for offroad. Of course since the dynamo light is attached to your bike, this assumes that you're riding a suspension mountain bike as a commuter as well? That's...not impossible, but unusual...



mechBgon said:


> The other concern is that the cutoff-style beam, intended to be friendly to oncoming traffic, may not be enough to get noticed in heavy traffc, or another example is riding in a bike lane next to high-turnover parking spots, where you need to be seen by people about to throw their door open or pull out of their parking spot after a glance in their mirror. For these situations, even a small "sprayer" light will help, especially if it has a flashing or pulsing mode. The latter criterion pretty much rules out dynamo lights, I have yet to see a dynamo light with a pulse or strobe setting.
> 
> So for myself, I consider dynamo a great baseline, especially for road (or off-road if you can afford an off-road model) and may throw on battery lights for their own merits.


I don't know of any either, if you spent a lot of time on the street I prefer a blinking front light for a "be seen" light. Keep in mind that not using a dynamo, you'd generally have to have 2 lights for this as well, as a blinking front light makes a good "to be seen" light, but a pretty terrible "see with" light.


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

PaulRivers said:


> That's unlikely to work. Batteries put out direct currently, dynamo's put out alternating current.


How hard can it be to open the light and add a bridge rectifier and a capacitor. I know batteries put out direct current.



androgen said:


> on a scale from 1 to 10 where 1 is the worst idea i have ever heard and 10 is the best idea i have ever heard i would rate your idea at about ... 3


Please develop your idea.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Khrystyan27 said:


> Please develop your idea.


with so many well made lights already designed for generator use what would be the point of taking a bad light not designed for it and then modifying it ?

the problem with generators is limited wattage. your mod would not solve that. in fact it would not solve any problem that exists. and it might not even work - every time you stopped your light might turn off etc.

even if you are able to work out all of the problems there is simply no benefit to be had in the end.


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

androgen said:


> with so many well made lights already designed for generator use what would be the point of taking a bad light not designed for it and then modifying it ?
> 
> *Of course... THE PRICE!  Who wants to give 70$, or so, for dynamo lights like Philips Safe Ride and B&M. For that price I could buy a Gemini Duo clone and a spare XP-G flashlight.*
> 
> ...


...


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Khrystyan27 said:


> ...


what i meant is that when you stop your light may turn off and will not turn back on when you start to pedal until you press the button again. so you might have to press the button over and over and over again on every ride ...


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

I will do something about it...

All I wanted to know is if it will work considering that DX states that the headlight has a 3W LED (the dynamo has 6V/3W output - typical power for dynamo hub's).


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Khrystyan27 said:


> I will do something about it...
> 
> All I wanted to know is if it will work considering that DX states that the headlight has a 3W LED (the dynamo has 6V/3W output - typical power for dynamo hub's).


if you want to know if it will work you should probably ask at the DIY forum ...


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

I've build a few dyno hub lights over the years and I have a B&M Eyc on route, can't say I will be that impressed with stvzo style beam pattern, but I will see.

I've been rocking 6 2nd gen cree xp series led driven by a dynamo and they are terrific, the brightness is a bit shy of my duo-clone but without the hassle of battery charging.

So far, for non-mtb rides, dynamo lights are still my go-to preference over anything else.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Khrystyan27 said:


> Anyone tried to do this yet?


Why don't you try to do this? You've been looking into this for several months now.

Gut the internals of that light and put together circuit #2 from Dynamo LED Light Systems for Bicycles (electronic circuits)  and call it a day.

I've been done this road a long time ago pondering about projects like you but really, it's so much better when you just commit yourself and do it instead of waiting for people to do something this obscure.


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## CHnuschti (Nov 12, 2008)

This page (all in german) has quite a comparison of beamshots also of several dynamo run lights:
BaslerBikes 2. Lampenvergleich 2013 (November) - BaslerBikes - Wir leben Radfahren
The setup for dynamo lights in the pictures is a SON 28" dynamo run at 20 kilometers per hour, some dynamo driven lights also with an additional picture at 30 kmph.
Keeping the mouse over the picture displays additional comments.

regards


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

CHnuschti:
Thankyou for the link, it was very good.


/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

CHnuschti said:


> This page (all in german) has quite a comparison of beamshots also of several dynamo run lights:
> BaslerBikes 2. Lampenvergleich 2013 (November) - BaslerBikes - Wir leben Radfahren
> The setup for dynamo lights in the pictures is a SON 28" dynamo run at 20 kilometers per hour, some dynamo driven lights also with an additional picture at 30 kmph.
> Keeping the mouse over the picture displays additional comments.
> ...


it appears as if Luxos and Edelux 2 are the winners then ?


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

Thanks a lot!

I'll see what I can do.


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## Lugano (Jan 16, 2011)

Dynamo lights and battery lights are different animals and probably shouldn't be compared directly. I have experience with both and they both have their plusses and minuses. 

For a couple years I ran a Supernova E3 Triple which they claimed was around 800 lumens. I would have compared it with a 200 - 300 lumen Light & Motion Stella I had just prior to that. It was maybe a bit brighter than the Stella, but not much. Certainly it wasn't 800 lumens. But it was surprisingly adequate for the riding I did, mostly urban and suburban, where in the suburban parts it got pretty dark in places. 

The Supernova E3 Triple has no beam pattern at all and to avoid blinding oncoming traffic I had it aimed pretty much about 25-35 feet in front of me, which was a good spot for seeing road debris and potholes. It did not flood the area like a super bright 1000 lumen light will do. 

The obvious advantage was that I never worried about charge or duration or anything. It just worked. Always. I used it as a daytime running light when I rode the bike, which was my winter beater bike. 

Honestly, I couldn't tell when it was on or off, so I left it on. Drag exists, but is nearly negligible with the Shimano dynamo I used. 

I also own several high-end Light & Motion lights, including the Taz 1200 and the Seca 1400. I often supplemented the Supernova with one of these and they would wash out the Supernova, especially on high. 

Ultimately, I don't really recommend a dynamo for off road riding, but for most night riding they're super, especially if you have a bike where they can be mounted out of the way in a permanent or semi-permanent location. 

The Busch & Müller CYO IQ T Premium puts out 80 lux (They seem to measure dynamo lights differently than battery lights) and I've seen the 60 lux old version in action and it is a totally usable light for much riding. A buddy had one and it was not necessarily a whole light brighter than my Supernova, but the beam was more useful. You can't really tell what that means until you see one in real life. My next one will be the Busch & Müller, and likely not the latest Supernova. The 60 lux B&Ms I have seen probably are the equivalent of about a 400-500 lumen light but projected to a rectangular pattern in front of the bike, not just illuminating everything. They're useful for on-road riding but I'm not sure I'd like one on a dark single track trail. 

I'm a dynamo believer but they're not really the same thing as a battery light. Different missions. For real off-road riding I'd use a battery light. For commuting or general dark road riding I wouldn't hesitate to use a good dynamo light.

Dynamo lights don't exist only because they have to exist in Germany. They exist because there is a market all over Europe of real commuters who ride bikes every day, day or night, rain or shine, to go about their daily business. People who don't believe this need to take a trip to Belgium or Germany or the Netherlands or Switzerland or other places.


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## CHnuschti (Nov 12, 2008)

Personally I have never occupied myself with dynamos. Don't think their technical level is yet advanced enough to use such lights for mountainbiking or compete with battery lights of some output. But IMO they are quite ideal for a lot of communters. No hassle with charging batteries and guessing if you have still enough load for the ride home etc..IMO They put out enough light for usual roads and you can easily recognize obstacles, potholes etc. and offer at least a decent light. Also im many cases the rider often has additional street lights or some additional ambient light and rides only partially in pitch dark. Surely dynamo lights have a lot of followers in Europe. 

regards


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## Ricky J (Jul 17, 2005)

After reading about its successful use in European endurance racing events I contacted the good folks at Schmidt in Germany to inquire about using their dyno hub offroad. 

They replied that it works best where speeds are kept above 6-8 mph, but would not recommend it as a stand alone lighting system for true wilderness expeditions in rough (i.e. slow) terrain...which makes complete sense. I appreciated their honest answers.


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

androgen said:


> it appears as if Luxos and Edelux 2 are the winners then ?


I just swapped out a Luxos B for a Cyo Premium on my mountain-commuter. The Edelux II uses the reflector from the Cyo Premium and shares the same beam shape. Anyway, my initial assessment is that the Cyo Premium is the better pick over the Luxos B. It's a little brighter, the fill light is more even, it's smaller and lighter, and costs less. Those who want to pay nearly double for the Edelux II will get slightly more light, a glass lens for long-term durability, and a fancier housing/etc.


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