# Interbike-Sturmey Internal 3 spd fixed



## alpka (Aug 20, 2007)

Check this out
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2008/shows/interbike08/?id=results/interbike086

and scroll down to the pertinent article


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

I have had my hands on the prototype It's heavier than the standard 3 speed because it needs to be much more robust. Some of the extra weight is due to handmade parts, and they expect to get it lighter.

I was told the cog spline will be the same as a cassette spline (which they are using on the 3 speed for Brompton). This is so that the cog will be more firmly located than the usual snap ring system.

Sun Race are bemused by the reaction to its name S3X - they don't 5p34k text, so it was over their heads. I suggested they send W4NK4 stickers to the complainers.

My order is in - but production is not yet assured AFAIK.

BTW if there are any other drum brake enthusiasts out there, Sturmey-Archer are bringing out a 90mm brake in alloy early 2009.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

*Subscribing*

Ah, good news. So very soon I will have my choice of a Disc/Fixed hub or a 3-spd fixed hub.

As far as weight, I would expect the fixed 3 spd to be heavier. If its like the original ASC, it has to have 2 different planet sets. A regular 3 spd uses two sets of freewheel ratchets in opposite directions with one planet set to get the 2 indirect ratios. When you fix the hub, you lose the "easy" approach. Either add a second planet set or come up with a more complex engagement system to lock in the ratio.

It will be interesting to hear how much backlash this Sexy hub has - that has been an issue with fix modded regular 3's (which turn into 2 spds post mod).


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## theodash (Apr 11, 2007)

Sorry for the thread-jack. Velobike- you seem to have an "in" to Sturmey Archer stuff. Have you heard anything, or could you find out, if the new version of the 8 speed, specifically the X-RK8 disc version, is going to be ready anytime soon? It was announced back in March but theres been very little info since.

http://sunrace-sturmeyarcher.blogsp...d-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=5


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

The disk version is in the 2009 catalogue.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Velobike said:


> The disk version is in the 2009 catalogue.


Linky? Por Favor?


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

The printed catalogue.


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## theodash (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks! Will call today and get the catalogue.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

*Catalog specs?*

I hate to kill trees just for one page - so I guess the questions are:

1) Ok, it comes with a disk mount. Excellent for me. Disc mt only? (just curious)
2) How many spoke holes? 36? 32?
3) Width - 135? 130? or at least Axle length?

I note that the S-R3K (disk brake 3 spd regular) is
36H
119mm OLD
175mm axle length


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

alpka said:


> Check this out
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2008/shows/interbike08/?id=results/interbike086
> 
> and scroll down to the pertinent article


 Well I'm late to this party as usual, but my nipples are fully erect after reading that article. It's too bad that Sheldon Brown couldn't see the re-production of the SA fixed 3 spd hub.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

*From the original link at the top*

Sturmey sets date for three-speed fixie - but will it be alone?
Sturmey-Archer's fixed-wheel three-speed hub
Photo ©: John Stevenson (Click for larger image)

Sturmey Archer's S3X fixed-wheel three-speed hub will be available in January, Sturmey's US marketing manager told BikeRadar at Interbike today. Retail price for the hub is expected to be in the US$140-160 range.

The S3X will probably come with a multi-location shifter that can be used as a bar end or mounted on the down tube. Unfortunately, said Prosser, it's not possible to make it work with current brake/shift levers, so drop-in compatibility with, say, Shimano STI units, won't happen.

Prosser said that the final production version of the hub will be lighter than the current prototype. It's hard to see where you save weight in a hub gear as there's an unavoidable amount of metal needed in the internals, and it's not like possible buyers of a three-speed fixie hub can go buy someone else's lighter alternative.

Or can they? We haven't seen it yet, but SRAM apparently has a hub that can be switched between fixed-wheel and freewheel operation and is rumoured to be working on its own three-speed fixed hub.

Prosser explained some of the background to the S3X project, which was basically by a steady stream of inquiries to Sturmey from various places around the 'net (including, this writer, who stopped bothering Prosser about it when he told me that to resurrect the old ASC hub, Sturmey would need an order of 10,000 units.)

Various people, including the late great Sheldon Brown, helped gauge the level of interest, and Prosser hinted that if the S3X is successful, then Sturmey will consider widening the range with, for example, a closer-ratio version akin to the original ASC.


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## Hjalti (Jan 22, 2004)

*SRAM Fixed/Free*



wadester said:


> Or can they? We haven't seen it yet, but SRAM apparently has a hub that can be switched between fixed-wheel and freewheel operation .....


http://www.fixedandfreegear.com/singlespeed_e.html


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

*Newly New News*

From the sunrace-sturmeyarcher blog

http://sunrace-sturmeyarcher.blogspot.com/2008/11/s3x-fixed-gear-3-speed-update.html

Of special note: Includes a poll on desire for 130 OLD (vs or in addition to 120?) and desire for high flanges.

Includes Current hub specs (Not final) and pics of shifters (Not final) - barends or bar mount thumbies. Doesn't comment on downtube shifter boss useability, but it looks good.

I really likes this comment and will do so:
"You'll be able to tell the hepcats from the clueless - the hepcats will paint a black line down the start of the "3" before they build the wheel and will have "SBX" hubs!"

Look closely at the sprockets: looks like hyperglide spline! 12t, 13t are listed - but if truly hg spline, you could get wacky low gears. I do worry about backlash in the interface, tho.


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

Hopefully a larger rear sprocket can be used and that the hub doesn't have any input torque limitations I think running a disc 3spd fixed hub on a snow bike would be the best, most durable setup.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

checked on the S3X - updated as of 12 Jan:

http://sunrace-sturmeyarcher.blogspot.com/

or for the discussion/comments:

http://sunrace-sturmeyarcher.blogspot.com/2009/01/s3x-color-options.html

Of note:

"We should see them here in the States around March. That goes for the 130mm as well."


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## NormanF (Mar 15, 2007)

COOL! I'm going to get an S3X for my Raleigh Twenty as soon as one is available!   :yesnod: :band:


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## parcoju (Aug 14, 2008)

I'm so with you on the Raleigh Twenty! I got two Twenties, one original, one waiting to be tricked out with one of these babies. 

Sheldon Brown would be so proud.


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

Looks like a worthless piece of crap that won't last. I'll let someone else try it.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Schmucker said:


> Looks like a worthless piece of crap that won't last. I'll let someone else try it.


The proof of the pudding is in the eating thereof... 

Although I suspect the majority of sales of these hubs will be to people who will use them as benchtop ornaments.

In which case I'll have to get 2 :thumbsup:


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

Check out the blog posting from the 5th. New info:
"I wanted to show a few more pics for you guys showing the dust cover on the drive side and threads on the driver that will accept a single speed freewheel."
http://www.sunrace-sturmeyarcher.blogspot.com/
Now it seems more viable...

Well... they seem to be listening to our requests. My only other request... although it's an odd one... disc compatibility...


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

The ability to accept a freewheel is interesting.

There is an existing 3 speed which already has a freewheel built in, but this is a much more robust piece of equipment (or it appears to be), so with a freewheel it may make the perfect mountainbike 3 speed.

I reckon the disk mount could be done, although the spacing may be a problem.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Looking interesting. I agree with Schmucker, disc mount option on the 130OLD version would be nice. Then you have the options of:
- 3-speed fix / disc cog fixed flip-flop
- 3-speed coast / disc cog fixed flip flop
- 3-speed fix with disc brakes
- 3-speed coast with disc brakes


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## peanutbutter (Feb 18, 2005)

the disc option would be my only addition as well, it seems like just a little extra material, and youve got a super versatile 3spd hub, which is what ive wanted for years...

i dont know about the rest of you, but 3 speeds would be perfect, i dont want or need 5 or 7 or 14, just three please, but then again i come from the ss side of things...

this hub = awesome
this hub + disc mount = awesomest!!


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

See, disc is great. I'm trying to pick my rims out and I keep running into an issue. I'd like to have a rear brake (it can be necessary riding fixed off road or at high speed with a heavy tire, like a Big Apple at 40mph) but the rims I want are disc only. Oh the horror! I have a v-brake on the rear now and I can't get the tire in and out of the frame without deflating it so a disc would be so ideal... And then I can get non-machined rims and so can all the hipster polo players, etc!


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## peanutbutter (Feb 18, 2005)

there's a short review of this hub over at : http://traitorcycles.com/
it's about 1/4 of the way down, but for lazy folks like me it reads:

_First Riding Impressions of the 3 speed Fixed Gear Hub
12/16/08 (Posted by Kevin)
Recently got back from a trip to Taiwan where we met up with Alan from Sunrace/Sturmey Archer to see what they have cooking. We are looking at using one of their standard 3 speed internal geared hubs for a Luggernaut complete bike we are working on. In addition to their standard 3 speed hub Alan wanted us to tryout out the new 3 speed fixed gear hub. I have been really curious about this hub as to how it would perform. They had just finished building up a prototype for us to test out so we got to get some riding in.

First impressions where the hub shifted perfect and all gears felt very smooth. You didn't notice much friction or drag at all. The gear range is pretty huge and I immediately thought this would be perfect for bike polo setups to have a gear you can actually pedal to the event and then a super easy gear for the game. Downside is that there is a little pedal backlash when you attempt to skid stop. If you just slow your cadence down normally you don't notice anything but when you try to skid the rear wheel you definitely notice it. It is not really meant to be on a fixed gear with no brakes. You will definitely want to have a front brake with this setup. The engineers did not recommend that we skid stop the bikes but we did it anyway to see how it would feel. 
Overall I think fixed gear purist will not be into this setup but I do think there is a market for it for around town bikes and commuters that like the idea of a fixed gear bike but still want some gear range and the use of a front brake. The other major thing to note is the rad shifting options they have for the hub. They are offering their own bar end shifters which are very smooth and I got to check the prototypes out in person. They are also making a version called the Thumbie that is a bar con shifter that mounts to a flat bar. _


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

OK, so I'm starting to get interested in this kinda silly idea. Just over 15 years ago I developed a way of modifying the standard AW into a 2-speed fixed. I had ridden an ASC and liked it, but they blew up easily and were insanely expensive. I know Sunrace says the new hub is going to be really tough, but I have my doubts. I honestly don't see a way to make the gear teeth hard enough to resist the forces. The backlash described in the above review is what generally kills the hubs. Has anyone actually seen one of the hubs pulled apart?


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Right now, these hubs are pre-production (due out in March). The review in a previous post was the first hands on info I've seen.

And your comments about fixed mod AW hubs are the first I've seen commenting on their failure. Most mod info implies that they work.

Are you saying that in your experience the gear teeth would strip? I would expect shaft/"clutch"/driver failures before gear teeth went, but that's why I'm askin'.

I do know that SA was not known for precision parts back in the day - and that metallurgy has also come a long way since the AW was designed. But that doesn't guarantee that the absolute best will be used - they still have to sell them for an affordable price.

I plan on getting one of the first ones and treating it like I treat any other bit 'O kit - and see what happens.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Well if you know any of the old classic road guys that rode the ASC hubs back in the day they'll tell you about blowing them up. You can check the Classic Rendezvous listserve archives and they've talked about it a bunch in the past. The main problem with an AW hub, fixed or not, is that if you have any pressure when you shift eats the planet and sun gears really quickly.

The stuff made in the '50s and before was of excellent quality and really quality steel. Its not a problem with the materials it's a problem with the design. The clutch will fry itself during the backlash, but generally the gears go first. My buddy/co-worker Matt (not listed in the link above, but central to the final design) and I built maybe 5 variants of the S-A conversion until one design won out. We built over a dozen more, but less than 20 and had folks around Seattle riding them. Almost all of them died within 2 months. 

The switch to the Bendix hub helped longevity and there are some still being used today. There may be a couple of the S-A hubs left around, but I doubt anyone's riding them. The new S3X might be ok if they've changed some of the design inside which is why I asked if anyone has seen one apart yet.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

So did anyone see these or ride these in the flesh in March?


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## HandsomeRyan (Dec 12, 2008)

*sad face* I want one of these so bad....


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## trail_junkie (Jul 12, 2007)

Any word on availability?


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

trail_junkie said:


> Any word on availability?


They are in the new catalogue.

*Download it here*

Looks like there is a 120 and a 130 version.

Also of interest in that catalogue if you're daft enough to like drum brakes (like me) is a 90mm front drum.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Just because it's in the catalog or being shown at shows means it'll ever see the light of public release. I've dozens of parts over the last 30 years get promoted but never see retail shelves. I want to believe, but I'm skeptical from my experience and being told by S-A England years ago that it was impossible to make one durable. Which is why they always refused re-reissue a new version. Sunrace has good record of pushing the envelope and doing things others wouldn't, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Another bump. . . any news?

The blog is all old catalog news and no new shows or displays.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

*Patience is a virtue*

If you check out the comments on this post:

http://sunrace-sturmeyarcher.blogspot.com/2009/03/2009-2010-sturmey-archer-catalog-is-now.html

you find:

Sunrace Sturmey Archer said...

Pages 23 through 26 of the Sturmey catalog PDF detail the S3X.

The S3X is real. We are still working on changes that were implemented towards the beginning of the new year. As a result of those changes (Example: Retooling the driver) the release is still pending.
I am sure absolutely no one wants us to push a product out that is not ready. We want to provide everyone with a top quality piece of hardware that will last you a lifetime.

We do apologize to those who are ready for the hub now and are anticipating building a new bike around the hub.

Australian distribution is tricky for us. Currently we do not have any distributors in Australia. Greenspeed is going to help us with the Sturmey Archer side of things but on the Sunrace side we still do not have anyone signed up. Please e-mail me [email protected]ceusa.com and I will see if I can help you out.

Sorry for missing the question on the Spline interface for the driver. It is the same spline used on all the new external cup BBs.

To Andrew I am still not sure why you want to use a Shimano barcon? We do make our own barcon mount. But the shifter can mount to a Shimano barcon mount if needed.
April 8, 2009 9:56 AM


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

I generally don't try and keep up with comments on a month old post. I figure if they have any actual news it'll be posted as a new post. So what they're saying is there is no new news and there was problems with the early version's drivers.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

I started reviewing post comments some time back - when I was bored and no fresh info was posted. Turns out to be how little details are revealed. The change to the driver appears to have started right after testing the first prototypes:

Sunrace Sturmey Archer said...

Because of the last minute changes made to the driver the release date has been pushed back. We should see them here in the States around March. That goes for the 130mm as well.
January 12, 2009 1:31 PM 

Based on earlier comments about the durability of the ASC and modded AW hubs, this is an extreme load application - and they are working hard to make sure that it works and lasts.


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## midtoad (Jun 23, 2008)

No news since May 2009? What happened at Interbike, did Sturmey-Archer show up and show off their S3X hubs? Are they available yet? I don't hear about anyone using them yet.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

This guy has wheelsets, you could have it on your doorstep early next week:
http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=1708


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Nice wheelset, if that's what you want (120 spacing, mystery front hub, black) $249

SA says:
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=1304730211719482614&postID=3196868164619061146

"The SLS3X R3T is specific to the S3X hub and will be available when the hub lands here in the US towards the end of December.

Vancruisers: Almost our entire line is available in through United Bicycle Supply if you are a bike shop or through www.biketoolsetc.com if you are just a consumer."

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=927045914228&c=Sturmey-Archer&sc=Hubs&tc=Fixed-Gear

S3X HUBKIT 130MM O.L.D. SILVER (Item #SU-S3XS/130) $217.00 (Currently Out Of Stock)


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## midtoad (Jun 23, 2008)

*I rode it*

I rode a bike with this hub on it, wanting to like it, but... not liking it. I found WAY too much chain slap for my liking. (although I have read on another site that you have to tighten up the hub after a few km, and maybe my test bike hadn't been tweaked). Also the dead spot between gears is frightening - there's a small spot on the shifting where you have NO gears at all. If you have no front brake, this could be a real problem.

I'll be glad to hear from others who have had a different riding experience. I was rather put off.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

midtoad said:


> I rode a bike with this hub on it, wanting to like it, but... not liking it. I found WAY too much chain slap for my liking. (although I have read on another site that you have to tighten up the hub after a few km, and maybe my test bike hadn't been tweaked). Also the dead spot between gears is frightening - there's a small spot on the shifting where you have NO gears at all. If you have no front brake, this could be a real problem.
> 
> I'll be glad to hear from others who have had a different riding experience. I was rather put off.


Interesting. I have one of these in the process of building a bike around it. I have heard that the slop in the hub was similar to a loose chain - which would be ok in exchange for gears. All of the hub slop is in the "clutch" - allowing it room to move to shift. Not something that could be tightened up.

I have noted that the cog mount to basically a shimano cassette spline, and that there is the normal amount of slop between cog/hub. This concerns me because going from forward to reverse load on the pedals WILL cause the cog to move no matter how hard the lockring is tightened (witness how steel cassettes bite into aluminum freehub bodies). I will be shimming this gap to eliminate any movement, even if it means the cog is a "press" fit.

I would be worried about a "false neutral" - but it didn't stay there unless you held the shifter? Might be a shift cable issue. Anyone who rides any fixie w/o a brake or two is pushing their luck.


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