# Nervous about blowing up my heart at 58 years young



## Roll_Model (6 mo ago)

Haven't raced since I was 40 and made the podium at a 24 hours of Adrenaline race as part of a team. Now I am finding myself wanting to train up again and make my way to the starting line. I am in pretty good over all shape. BMI is good, heart rate, blood pressure etc all check out. I do low impact workouts on a Total Gym for my core and to get tone. My main fear is that my heart will blow up when I really start pushing it. I guess there are worse ways to die. 
How hard is too hard to push at 58 ?


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## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

easy way to find some peace of mind - get your doc to order up a full stress test... im 55 and push as hard as I can... which is still less than when younger - but you sound like you have a decent sense of awareness/self so thats always a good thing


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## Roll_Model (6 mo ago)

Probably time for a new heart rate monitor so I can stay under the recommended limit.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

At 58 I pushed myself harder than I ever had before, to absolute max. Always felt good and never worried. 2 years later I'm doing the same.

If I were worried about it I guess I'd see a cardiologist and have a stress test done.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

I’m 52 and had a CT scan on my heart to look for blockage last week. The Dr has to order it and it cost $99. Takes just a few minutes and you get the results immediately. Non invasive and easier than the stress test. Ask your Dr about a CT Coronary Calcium Test


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Roll_Model said:


> Probably time for a new heart rate monitor so I can stay under the recommended limit.




Depends I suppose, I use a hr monitor and sometimes explore what my max is but usually it's mostly an indicator of my fitness and how far I can push it before I blow up.

Also really good for keeping it in z2 when you need to.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

I am 61 and ride quote a bit for a working guy. I still can hit 177 (recent) which if higher than I should be able to hit. I have a resting HR in low 50's. If you are used to pushing your body I say go for it (with your Doctor's blessing), but listen to your body. If something feels off, knock it off and get checked. Key is to work up to it. I can still do 5,000'+ elevation gain rides at 61 with no issues aside from needing more recovery after a big ride.


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

Heart rate monitor to make sure you don't over due it. It can indicate how hard you are pushing the motor. If you don't make it, can I have your bike?


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## Hammy-56 (27 d ago)

I don’t think age has anything to do with it. I race with plenty of guys who are 60+ and they’re pushing their 100%. The 60+ field in Colorado CX is one of the biggest most weekends…If you’re in good health I don’t see any issue.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

I did a cycling HR max test back when I was racing on the road about 30 years ago, theoretical max was 192 at time. If I do the usual generic number, my max at age 68 should be 162. I reguarly see 168 or so when not pushing on a standard ride. Ive mentioned it to a few doctors, nobody was alarmed, so I stopped worrying about it.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

I’m almost 55 and had a heart attack last year. Overweight, overworked, stressed. But I was riding about 10 hours a week. Doctor said that probably saved my life. 

Recovery was a couple of months riding 75% of the distance I was doing, at 75% heart rate. After a couple of months, cardiologist said my program was better than anything they could have done in rehab. 

He said he approves of any activity that gets my heart going, but to be careful because I’m on blood thinners. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

I have similar fears - I regularly push my max. I'm 55 years old, seen 177 on the HR this Summer, although that's rare, but hitting 170 is not.
Never thought about it in the past, but its in the back of my mind a lot more these days.

Never felt too bad exercising but twice in the last year I've had little anxiety attacks where I feel like I can't control my heart rate and feel a little light headed and I'm stressing about something, but those both felt more mentally induced, but yeah it makes me think. (Resting HR, blood pressure and overall health are excellent, regularly keep up with or out ride guys in their early 30's, no history of health problems of any kind since an appendectomy when I was 14) 

Like someone said above, there are worse ways to die. But I have thought, eh, maybe check in with the doctor and have a few tests run.


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

Talk here about age based limit, “theoretical max”, the max heart rate equations…

The max heart rate equations are for obtaining the population average max heart rate for age. they don’t determine your heart rate max.

Using it to determine your max is like using an age based equation to calculate how much money you has in the bank.

Important thing about average… a bunch of peoples max is less than that.

Talk to dr, also read up on LT and you can determine your actual physiological limits.


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## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

I'm 54, asthmatic and regularly push to my max and on most rides see mid 170's and averages in 150's. It crosses my mind sometimes but I feel like I am just making myself stronger and healthier. I have an annual physical and that's about it from a detection perspective.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

Get clearance from your Dr, and then you should be fine for full throttle. My guess is that you will be surprised at how much of your former fitness and speed you can regain.
Don't be afraid to spend some real money on a bike, once you figure out what sort of riding you'll be mostly doing. I think many people can be a bit too thrifty when they could really enjoy the riding experience more on a better quality and more modern bike, - you will feel a lot less beatup on a more modern bike than on your 20 year old race bike.


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## woodway (Dec 27, 2005)

I'm 62. Never really thought about blowing up my heart. I just push until my body says stop. I love the feel of pushing.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Roll_Model said:


> My main fear is that my heart will blow up when I really start pushing it. I guess there are worse ways to die.
> How hard is too hard to push at 58 ?


Why are you worried about that in particular? If all you health stats are in the green it doesn't seem like a risk that should be top of mind.

Like any sensible person you'd be wise to build your training in stages from where you are now towards where you'd like to be. If you rush it you are likely to have problems. Assuming you are working on a reasonable training plan and feel good I wouldn't worry about your heart exploding. If you start training and anything seems off see a doctor of course.


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## Gym123 (Dec 4, 2021)

Roll_Model said:


> Haven't raced since I was 40 and made the podium at a 24 hours of Adrenaline race as part of a team. Now I am finding myself wanting to train up again and make my way to the starting line. I am in pretty good over all shape. BMI is good, heart rate, blood pressure etc all check out. I do low impact workouts on a Total Gym for my core and to get tone. My main fear is that my heart will blow up when I really start pushing it. I guess there are worse ways to die.
> How hard is too hard to push at 58 ?


Don't go from 0-WOT on the first ride and you should be OK. Train up to it.


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## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

jimPacNW said:


> Get clearance from your Dr, and then you should be fine for full throttle. My guess is that you will be surprised at how much of your former fitness and speed you can regain.
> Don't be afraid to spend some real money on a bike, once you figure out what sort of riding you'll be mostly doing. I think many people can be a bit too thrifty when they could really enjoy the riding experience more on a better quality and more modern bike, - you will feel a lot less beatup on a more modern bike than on your 20 year old race bike.


Best advice I've ever seen on this forum


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## CEB (Mar 17, 2005)

Sir kayakalot said:


> I’m 52 and had a CT scan on my heart to look for blockage last week. The Dr has to order it and it cost $99. Takes just a few minutes and you get the results immediately. Non invasive and easier than the stress test. Ask your Dr about a CT Coronary Calcium Test


Exactly! Heart disease is really artery disease. If one is pre-disposed to calcification in their major arteries it's time to consider aggressive treatments. Keep in mind, cholesterol is not the killer big pharm wants to to believe it i$. I've got 300+ blood cholesterol and a ZERO cal score. The doctor honestly said statins are a must BEFORE he saw cal score. After he saw the ZERO, he said "nevermind". I had a full cardio work-up, including treadmill with CT of heart before and after, EKG w/sonogram. So, at 64 year old, I used to think "here comes the big one". The facts revealed after thorough testing help take away the gnawing thought in my head.


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## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

I'll be 69 this week. Our team didn't win anything at the 24 Hours of Adrenaline in 2002 because our Fireballs kept burning out. I did a stress test in 2005 at my physicians request and passed with flying colors. As others have said, start training slowly, do some short intervals, listen to your body. If you're concerned about beginning that training then consult your physician. The only time I felt like my heart was going to blow up was that first year of riding at age 40.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Race at your own pace.

Training is the key

The benefits to being a Master's athlete is that there are fewer people participating in our age groups.

i've run 10k, half marathons and full marathons as a master's athlete (+60) and reached podium in my events  I've placed well overall in all age groups despite being slower than some participants who are much younger. I'll say it again, training is key


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## Roll_Model (6 mo ago)

Lot of great responses here. I appreciate it. I did buy a new BMC mountain bike and I am buying a new BMC road bike after the first of the year. I definitely know how to train up slowly and recover correctly. I am on the treadmill now 4-5 times a week while winter is doing it's thing but will be ready to ride when it warms up.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Old people worry too much, just go ride and do what you do, you’re far more likely to die in a accident on the way to the trails than to have your heart explode while riding on the trails 🤣


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Sanchofula said:


> Old people worry too much, just go ride and do what you do, you’re far more likely to die in a accident on the way to the trails than to have your heart explode while riding on the trails 🤣


Even for those of us that still ride the old style bicycle that you have to manually pedal?


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

Man I’ve never done any activity or sport half assed. My competitive nature comes out, even when I say I’m gonna take it easy. If the OP is in the shape to give it a go, then do it. I’m sure your body will let you know it’s breaking point. I know mine does. It’s a tough thing between mind and body. My mind thinks I’m still in my 20’s but my body lets me know I’m 48. But I still go as hard as I can. Like others have said about new geo and bikes, I’m probably riding faster now than I did when i rode my Turner 10+ years ago.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

If you are worried (rightfully so at this age) I would schedule an appointment with a cardiologist and other doctors to get a complete physical, blood work, etc. 
Personally, at 60 (going on 61 in 2 weeks) I'm mostly on top of my health and still able to push pretty hard and can mostly stay up with the young guys.
I've felt that how hard I've pushed myself, if I haven't experience and heart or other health issue's by now, I think I'm okay. 
2022 was challenging though. I was riding really strong, stronger than I had in probably five years, then in July I got Covid pretty bad. It took over a month to start feeling decent. In August, I had a stick fly into my front wheel, throwing me over the bars, tearing a muscle near my elbow. In September I threw my back out. I just started riding again 2 weeks ago.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

I don't have a lot of advice to offer that hasn't already been shared, but here's a little about my return...
Starting in 2004, I took a 15 year break from cycling. I got back on the bike again at 50yo. I'll never have the kind of fitness I did in my early-30s, but in the 3 years I've been back on the bike, I dropped 40+ lbs (in the first year), and am back to a level where I can ride with my friends who never stopped riding. It all started with just short sessions on the trainer, and building my fitness back progressively. It actually came back quicker than I expected. In my younger days, I spent 12 years racing MTB, road, and CX, with some reasonable success on the road (Cat 3 State Champ title). I don't have a desire to return to racing, but it feels really good to be strong and active again, and I am looking forward to doing some organized gravel events in the coming year.


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## Fairbanks007 (Sep 5, 2009)

Clinical exercise physiologist here. The *only* way to really know what *your* limits are is to have a symptom limited stress test. The best would be a cardiopulmonary stress test that would measure your VO2 peak and determine your anaerobic threshold. Be very clear when discussing the test with your physician that you want a symptom limited test; stopping the test at some arbitrary percentage of an arbitrary number isn't going to tell you what you want to know.

Oh, the advice to train up to competition gradually isn't a bad idea either.


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

I guess it's different if you're competing, but for me (coming up on 66), it's a simple matter--when I feel like I'm in danger of puking, it's time for a break.

The HR at which I reach that state has gone _up_ every year that I've been biking, so personal results are obviously a lot more relevant than a calculation. Interestingly, my Garmin agrees. It automatically adjusted my HR zones upward for me a year or two ago.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

There's probably more risk of 'blowing up your heart' from being inactive. Part of my motivation to get fit again was when a friend of ours died at age 40 from a heart attack, while on his mtb (10 year anniversary of that is tomorrow). He was a little overweight, not very active, no real fitness habits. While out on his mtb deer hunting, messing around attempting wheelies up a hill, he just fell over into the ditch due to the cardiac event (which wasn't nearly as quick as one might hope for, if that's how you're going to go out). It turned out that he had some heart issues that were undiagnosed. If I hadn't been doing regular hard race efforts for the past 11 years, and was starting out again, I'd get some good heart info before exploring the upper limits of my heart rate.


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## supranatural (3 mo ago)

Ever since I was a kid I've trained hard and as an adult my philosophy on hard training/high intensity days is I'm always trying to blow up my heart. I haven't been successful yet and I'm 59...


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

subscribed. I'm almost 61 but my max HR has declined as I've aged. As measured with a HR monitor my max in my 30s was 170, 40s was 160, 50s was 155, and now it seems like I rarely hit 150. I guess that's normal but can go all day long.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

rockman said:


> subscribed. I'm almost 61 but my max HR has declined as I've aged. As measured with a HR monitor my max in my 30s was 170, 40s was 160, 50s was 155, and now it seems like I rarely hit 150. I guess that's normal but can go all day long.


I think some of this is learned in that we are capable of more than we think. Take racing. In a race your adrenaline is high and competitive nature and you may see HR level higher than ever before. At 61 I recently hit a 177 on a tough climb with a friend in his early 40s. It was at a bit of altitude but the real factor was the grade and duration. This particular climb has resulted in HAB on occasion and several times cleaning the whole plate of suffering. You mention you can go all day long. If you can go all day long now at 150 that is not even close to your max. Having said all that I suspect you are capable of a higher HR but only do what your body tells you and consult a professional of which I am not. 


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## supranatural (3 mo ago)

rockman said:


> subscribed. I'm almost 61 but my max HR has declined as I've aged. As measured with a HR monitor my max in my 30s was 170, 40s was 160, 50s was 155, and now it seems like I rarely hit 150. I guess that's normal but can go all day long.


There's a generic component to Max heart rate as well. Mine has declined but not as much as I would have expected. I think it's more important that you train to your respective heart rate zones and that you can go all day long. I have a couple of friends with resting heart of 38-45 (brothers) and I'm very sure it's got it's roots in their genetic makeup as I'm in just as good condition but my resting HR is 10 BPM higher. They're younger but even when I was that age my resting HR wasn't that low. 

I've read that unless you have some congenital issue it's impossible to explode your heart doing hard exercise (I'd think an exception is if you're an overweight out of shape person trying to exercise hard without getting in shape first)


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## palmasi (Sep 26, 2013)

Preston67 said:


> Best advice I've ever seen on this forum


i was going to post the same thing, and I’ve been here since 2006!


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Get yourself a CAC test, and stress test. Way too many older people "in perfect physical condition" drop dead of a heart attack that they never saw coming.


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## CornMan (Aug 11, 2017)

Roll_Model said:


> Haven't raced since I was 40 and made the podium at a 24 hours of Adrenaline race as part of a team. Now I am finding myself wanting to train up again and make my way to the starting line. I am in pretty good over all shape. BMI is good, heart rate, blood pressure etc all check out. I do low impact workouts on a Total Gym for my core and to get tone. My main fear is that my heart will blow up when I really start pushing it. I guess there are worse ways to die.
> How hard is too hard to push at 58 ?


Has your PCP expressed any concerns about your biometrics? And have you ever seen a cardiologist? Those would be my first two questions for you.

Generally speaking, a cardiologist will be looking at BP and bad cholesterol. Those are the two big areas of focus on the prevention side of heart health. I agree with others that talking to a PCP, or a specialist would be a good start if you have a specific concern. Assuming you're in overall good health, exercise will be the #1 way to maintain, or stabilize, your heart health. Everything else a doctor might advise as part of prevention – diet, statins, aspirin, zetia, etc. – nicely complements aerobic exercise, but isn't a good replacement for exercise.


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

I've recently gone on statins due to high cholesterol. Changing my diet helped, and last year was a great year for exercise (good weather meant lots of biking days), but in the end, I couldn't get it down far enough.


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## goofyarcher (Jul 12, 2020)

Roll_Model said:


> Probably time for a new heart rate monitor so I can stay under the recommended limit.


I use my Garmin watch and have it announce my HR every 60 seconds through my shox while I ride. I try to say in the 140 zone, I had a pacemaker done 9 months ago and it works for me


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## CEB (Mar 17, 2005)

DennisT said:


> I've recently gone on statins due to high cholesterol. Changing my diet helped, and last year was a great year for exercise (good weather meant lots of biking days), but in the end, I couldn't get it down far enough.


Get a CAC test. Those statins are deadly.


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## Gym123 (Dec 4, 2021)

DennisT said:


> I guess it's different if you're competing, but for me (coming up on 66), it's a simple matter--_*when I feel like I'm in danger of puking, it's time for a break.*_
> 
> The HR at which I reach that state has gone _up_ every year that I've been biking, so personal results are obviously a lot more relevant than a calculation. Interestingly, my Garmin agrees. It automatically adjusted my HR zones upward for me a year or two ago.


I'll turn 66 in April- WRT the part in bold italics and out of curiosity, who, from our parents' generation, EVER said anything like that about bike riding or other fitness exercise? I can't think of a single person from the previous generation riding with any intensity, regardless of where they lived and I had a lot of relatives in California. Hitting max heart rate? Only if they were angry.


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

Gym123 said:


> I'll turn 66 in April- WRT the part in bold italics and out of curiosity, who, from our parents' generation, EVER said anything like that about bike riding or other fitness exercise? I can't think of a single person from the previous generation riding with any intensity, regardless of where they lived and I had a lot of relatives in California. Hitting max heart rate? Only if they were angry.


Might be imagination, but I remember a lot of progress in bike tech when I was young. Ten-speeds, then twelve, then eighteen, different bar styles, etc. Also the banana seats and sissy bars, but that's a trend best left dead.

It might be that the bikes finally got good enough that people could start using them hard.


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## Gym123 (Dec 4, 2021)

DennisT said:


> Might be imagination, but I remember a lot of progress in bike tech when I was young. Ten-speeds, then twelve, then eighteen, different bar styles, etc. Also the banana seats and sissy bars, but that's a trend best left dead.
> 
> It might be that the bikes finally got good enough that people could start using them hard.


I had three Schwinn SingRay bikes- those were five speed and we rode the crap out of whatever we had, but that was the '60s. I recently saw a SingRay and realized what a tank it was when I picked it up. Used to jump over all kinds of things, too. All three were stolen and after the last one, I decided that if someone wanted to steal my bike, they were gonna have to work to get away so I bought a Varsity from my cousin and as far as weight, it was more of a tank than the other ones. Fortunately, my brother let me ride his Raleigh Grand Prix while he was at school.


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## Canssago (9 mo ago)

CEB said:


> Get a CAC test. Those statins are deadly.


Explain how statins are deadly? I have 30%blockage in my widow maker, PCP instructed without statins I would have a massive heart attack within 12-18 months. My family has a history of heart attacks in their 50's with 2 out of 5 uncles passing from one. All 5 uncles and my father all have had heart attacks. My cholesterol was 293 with a 5mg statin it is down to 53.


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## CEB (Mar 17, 2005)

Canssago said:


> Explain how statins are deadly? I have 30%blockage in my widow maker, PCP instructed without statins I would have a massive heart attack within 12-18 months. My family has a history of heart attacks in their 50's with 2 out of 5 uncles passing from one. All 5 uncles and my father all have had heart attacks. My cholesterol was 293 with a 5mg statin it is down to 53.


Controversial if not deadly. PCP thinks they are terrific, the cardiologist investigated further and rejected them as a cure-all that many think they are. There are people that take statins and STILL have "heart attacks" because statins do NOT dissolve calcium buildup. Like I said in previous post: If one has a HIGH CAC score, get aggressive and treat that. It's the CALCIUM that's the killer, not the "fat". While true most of those with severe blockages can benefit from therapies that reduce (soft fat) plaque buildup, those without evidence of buildup that still take statins as a "preventative" measure suffer side effects, some which cause irreversible damage to kidneys, liver, pancreas, muscles. Although I have a zero CAL SCORE, my brother ( a doctor) only 18 months older has a VERY high cal score. In 2020, 64 years old, just 6 months after retirement, he had a 4 way bypass that prevented a massive event. He took statins, to no positive effect for years. It hurt his body, and although they changed the brand, nothing relieved him of the bodily discomfort. Then was on death's doorstep. His cardiologist praised his dedication to regular cycling and good diet but admitted no amount of drugs can help someone with heavy calcification in their arteries. My father, and his father died from coronary artery disease. FREAKED me out, thus a visit to a cardiologist was a must. Apparently I "inherited" the genes from my mothers side of the family which as NO history of coronary artery disease. My cholesterol of 303 was no concern of his since I am free of calcification. So why don't insurance companies pay for CAC test? Simply becuase there is no money for big pharm (their little brother) if more people knew they may have zero benefit form a drug prescribed based on a blood test. Even my cardiologist admitted that a CAC score would help, but many of his patients won't pay the out of pocket and opt to continue the use of statins.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

What I’ve read and experienced suggests the 220-age formula fits the population average but has absolutely no individual predictive value. i began riding with a HR monitor at age 53 and observed 182 a couple times that year. Now at age 67 my observed max is 176. A decent/longer effort will get me above 170 pretty easily. My max has dropped 6 bpm in 14 years, a useful rationalization for spending more on bikes, now a medical expense?

My Fitbit says my overnight resting rate runs in the low 50’s. This goes up after a hard ride, then drifts back down a couple days later. My 59-year old wife’s resting rate is in the low 40’s per her Apple Watch (maybe different algorithm). The watch used to alarm when her HR fell below 40 in her sleep, so she set the alarm lower. Our Dr says she’s just very fit. Her max HR is about 160. On any given ride, her average HR is 10-15 bpm lower than mine.

Our Dr. ordered an echocardiogram a couple years ago after she told him about feeling occasional palpitations. It showed she has very high volume capacity, apparently accounting for her superb lifelong athletic performance and low resting HR. She can sure kick my butt on any climb and drops guys in their 50’s too. Her heart apparently doesn’t need to beat all that fast due to its volume capacity. That’s probably one reason max HR varies so much from person to person too. You’ll need to listen to your own body. Age isn’t a big deal if you’re fit and healthy.

We all have different engines and are all trainable, at least if we’re fit enough to ride at all. We rode for years on the road, sometimes in a Saturday social group with a grandpa we knew only as “COPD Bob”. He claimed cycling largely rehabbed his lung capacity from only 30% to about 70%. You’ve never met a more grateful, enthusiastic cyclist. I’m reading a great cycling book called Climb! and just finished a chapter on building your Zone 2 base and what this does physiologically. It’s not glamorous work but is vital. Your peak achievable cycling fitness depends on the base you build under it. Years ago I read another book about cycling after 50. These books contain a lot of good information but for me they’re most useful as encouragement. Ride for fun and live ‘til you die!


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Sanchofula said:


> Old people worry too much, just go ride and do what you do, you’re far more likely to die in a accident on the way to the trails than to have your heart explode while riding on the trails


This. No hard data showing Calcium scoring prevents adverse coronary events. Much more data supporting statins. That being said, unless you are symptomatic, have a strong early family history or multiple risk factors, don’t worry about it. But, if you’re worried, see a board certified cardiologist. BTW, I typically don’t push statins, but encourage life style modification. 


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

DrDon said:


> This. No hard data showing Calcium scoring prevents adverse coronary events.


CAC scores are the #1 indicator for longevity, period.


.


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## CEB (Mar 17, 2005)

DrDon said:


> This. No hard data showing Calcium scoring prevents adverse coronary events.


Nope.
Here are two of MANY.
Study Shows Value of Calcium Scan in Predicting Heart Attack and Stroke Among Those Considered at Either Low or High Risk - 12/23/2013









Statins Provide No Clinical Benefit When Coronary Calcium Is Zero, Study Shows


The study was published just ahead of the upcoming cholesterol guidelines, with experts wondering if CAC testing will finally be given a seat at the table.




www.tctmd.com


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

_CJ said:


> CAC scores are the #1 indicator for longevity, period.
> 
> 
> .


Hey CJ,

Don is a real, honest to goodness medical doctor.

The user name isn’t that clear 🤣


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

My wife uses the ASCVD Risk Estimator developed by the American College of Cardiology, includes additional risk factors such as age, sex, diabetes, hypertension, smoking, and cholesterol.

The problem with the calcium scoring is the radiation exposure resulting from the CT Scan.

If your score on the risk estimator is high, a test is not going to change anything, because even if your calcium score is low, being at high risk for a cardiac event is being at high risk for a cardiac event.

However, if paying for the CT Scan and exposing yourself to radiation makes you feel better, then suit yourself.

Statins work, they may not be well tolerated, but the last I heard, neither is having a stroke.


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

Sanchofula said:


> Statins work, they may not be well tolerated, but the last I heard, neither is having a stroke.


My doc says the most likely side effect is muscle soreness. I say WTF, I get that from riding anyway.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

CEB said:


> Nope.
> Here are two of MANY.
> Study Shows Value of Calcium Scan in Predicting Heart Attack and Stroke Among Those Considered at Either Low or High Risk - 12/23/2013
> 
> ...


Two studies, one dated, the other definitively stating that the data is not strong enough to make calcium scoring the standard of care. There was high hopes for calcium scoring years ago, but strong data hasn’t been generated that demonstrate outcomes are ultimately improved. I queried a very good board certified cardiologist about three years ago and the data is still not there. Things may change. We now screen for lung cancer with low radiation CT scans. CT imaging for lung cancer screening was a big no no years ago. 


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

What is inside/makes up atherosclerosis plaques? 
Its mostly fibrous elements (screwed up collagen), screwed up foam cells (dysfunctional macrophages overly stuffed with oxidized ldl) and calcification. 
Appears it’s about preventing glycation and oxidation of lipids which is done with diet, antioxidants and having healthy Vitamin-D levels.

What helps prevent dysfunctional macrophages/foam cells?
Healthy Vitamin-D levels (60ng/ml)

What prevents glycation and oxidation of lipids/lipoproteins?
Clean diet (veggies, fiber, fruit ect.. and avoiding processed foods) & Antioxidants
Vitamin-C
Vitamin-E
Vitamin-B6 
Manganese (Manganese Superoxide Dismutase)
Selenium (Glutathione Peroxidase)
Ect..

What prevents screwed up collagen?
Having healthy antioxidant levels (oxidized ldl screws up chondrocytes cells that make collagen in the smooth muscles of the coronary arteries)
Amino acids lysine, proline, and glycine are critical in the proper formation of healthy collagen so you probably need a healthy ammount of these in your diet. 

What helps prevent calcification?
Lysine
Vitamin-K2 (MK7)
Manganese (Manganese Superoxide Dismutase)

After age of 30 your primary antioxidants SOD, Catalase, and Glutathione Peroxidase starts to fall and they really start to fall after the age of 50. Glutathione Peroxidas probably being the most important since it is the intercellular lipid antioxidant, but they all appear to be important. Also after the age of 30 collagen turnover/synthesis starts to fall and declines like 10% every decade. This is probably the main reason we get old and stiff, collagen damage vs turnover/synthesis (joints, skin, arteries, ect..). It appears to be the same pathway as arthritis, people with RA/OA are like 4+ times likely to develop CVD.

Also appears that having healthy primary antioxidants (SOD, Catalase, and Glutathione Peroxidase) levels you will have healthy cholesterol levels/profile. Seems like the more inflammation (glycation and oxidation of lipids/lipoproteins)/low primary antioxidant levels you have the more screwed up your cholesterol levels/profile is. Statins do not prevent glycation and oxidation of lipids/lipoproteins so you might want to clean up your diet and get your primary antioxidant (SOD, Catalase, and Glutathione Peroxidase) levels healthy before going on these, might fix your problem.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

The real goal is longevity and quality of life, not driving LDL below a number. Keep your eye on the goal. My total cholesterol runs about 240 (roughly LDL 140, HDL 90, VLDL 10, triglycerides 85), and big pharma would push statins at people with my LDL. However, my Dr says all of my key ratios are great, so “keep up your healthy lifestyle”. He’s wary of statins in all but extreme cases due to their elevated risk of dementia and type 2 diabetes with minimal effect on longevity.

Again, the goal is a longer, better life, not low LDL per se. This article gives a nice overview of the big picture —- lifestyle is FAR more effective than the meager statin effects for the vast majority of us. More reasons to spend money on bikes!








Preventing heart disease requires more than medicine


It would be wonderful if a pill wiped away big threats to our health. But to achieve that goal, we need more than medicine.




www.statnews.com


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Statins can also increase HDLand lower triglycerides.

Statins help people who are not able to do it themselves … even with significant lifestyle changes, some folks can’t get their cholesterol to healthy levels.

It’s a wonderful thing when people can improve their health through improving their lifestyle and making better choices.


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## scutchins (Sep 30, 2019)

I'm 56, am quite comfortable with heart rates in the 170's, and on long climbs I can keep 179 fairly sustained for quite a few minutes. I have seen 199 in the past year, although just for a brief moment because I was getting dizzy from the exertion. Last (Zwift) ride high was 188, average 160 for 49 minutes.

This is from a Garmin HR strap so it should be fairly accurate.

I just think I'm a hummingbird. Resting is mid- to high-50's.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

Sanchofula said:


> Statins can also increase HDLand lower triglycerides.
> 
> Statins help people who are not able to do it themselves … even with significant lifestyle changes, some folks can’t get their cholesterol to healthy levels.
> 
> It’s a wonderful thing when people can improve their health through improving their lifestyle and making better choices.


My triglycerides dropped sharply after dietary carb reductions . . . minimizing non-veggie carbs, especially sugar (it’s everywhere). My wife’s triglycerides hit a new low of 36 last month. She’s been mostly wheat-free to minimize gluten. I’m still enjoying pasta and a little whole wheat bread.

For much of my life HDL was 35-45, but in the last decade (since retirement) it’s climbed to 90-100. The reasons aren’t apparent, probably some combination of diet and exercise? We now focus on whole foods rather than processed stuff and avoid all grain oils, replacing them with Costco’s extra virgin olive oil, avocado oil, and coconut oil. We enjoy a lot of wild seafood, grass fed beef, local free range chicken, and pastured pork. It’s not the cheapest or most convenient way to eat, but we don’t need any Rx drugs and really enjoy our food. Restaurants aren’t so healthy and we enjoy them too, so there are compromises. Moderation in all things. Here’s to a great 2023!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

scutchins said:


> I'm 56, am quite comfortable with heart rates in the 170's, and on long climbs I can keep 179 fairly sustained for quite a few minutes. I have seen 199 in the past year, although just for a brief moment because I was getting dizzy from the exertion. Last (Zwift) ride high was 188, average 160 for 49 minutes.
> 
> This is from a Garmin HR strap so it should be fairly accurate.
> 
> I just think I'm a hummingbird. Resting is mid- to high-50's.


220 - Age = max sustained

It’s not what your heart can do, it’s what happens when your heart does what it can do.

It seems like your sustained and max are increasing … that’s not necessarily a good trend.


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## vreracing_2392 (5 mo ago)

My opinion is that unless you have a true allergy to Statins pretty much everyone would benefit from them. Also my opinion is that everyone has side effects from them. If you are over 50 and not on a statin does that give you an unfair advantage?

Also my opinion is as you push people over 50 to the limit strange things sometimes pop up on heart monitors. Just my personal observations with no scientific data to back it up.


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## scutchins (Sep 30, 2019)

Sanchofula said:


> 220 - Age = max sustained
> 
> It’s not what your heart can do, it’s what happens when your heart does what it can do.
> 
> It seems like your sustained and max are increasing … that’s not necessarily a good trend.


I thought 220-age was max, not max sustained?

I figured I was doing well since I could comfortably push it, is that not the case?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

vreracing_2392 said:


> My opinion is that unless you have a true allergy to Statins pretty much everyone would benefit from them. Also my opinion is that everyone has side effects from them. If you are over 50 and not on a statin does that give you an unfair advantage?
> 
> Also my opinion is as you push people over 50 to the limit strange things sometimes pop up on heart monitors. Just my personal observations with no scientific data to back it up.




well then f- it, I'm gonna to get a script for statins


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

220 - age was a very crude regression formula that fit a line through a mass of data with a huge variation from person to person. Therefore it’s useless for predicting any one person’s maximum.

Here’s a look at its flaws. The One-Size-Fits-All Age Adjusted Maximum Heart Rate Equation Fits No One. Its usefulness is limited to giving a new/casual exerciser a rough estimate for a productive HR target, something a doctor might use to encourage a sedentary patient to get moving and give him an idea how fast he should walk. It’s utterly worthless for athletic purposes. No trainer *ever* uses it. They always use your true max to define training zones.

Here’s a simpler, more pragmatic layman’s view. The Myth of “Maxiumum HR = 220 - Age”. He describes the same root cause that dooms any formula to failure on an individual basis.

“More recent studies have tried to revisit this concept on a broader sample of the population. For example, in one study, based on thousands of subjects, male and female, ranging in age from 18 to 81, the authors came up with a "best fit" equation of:
Max heart rate = 208 -0.7xAge.
*However, if you look at the data this is based on, it looks like a cloud with only a vague trend towards heart rate decreasing with age; there's a lot of scatter. *The new formula is a little more accurate than the old one, but can still under predict or over predict max HR by 20 beats or so [Tanaka, 2001].”

Other researchers have since produced more refined regression models, but they still remind us that even these don’t tell us anything about our individual maximum HR. Only testing and/or direct observation can tell you that.





Heart Rate calculator - CERG - NTNU


Maximum heart rate calculator




www.ntnu.edu




‘Our research shows that the variation in maximum heart rate within age groups is fairly large. Genetics contribute more to maximum heart rate than physical fitness. Therefore, it's hard to make a calculator that can estimate maximum heart rate precisely, and we recommend all of you who want to find your real HRmax to test yourself by pushing yourself to exhaustion.”

This one says my max is about 169, while 220-age says 153. My observed is 176. The 220-age is well known to underestimate the max for older people.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dkayak said:


> 220 - age was a very crude regression formula that fit a line through a mass of data with a huge variation from person to person. Therefore it’s useless for predicting any one person’s maximum.
> 
> Here’s a look at its flaws. The One-Size-Fits-All Age Adjusted Maximum Heart Rate Equation Fits No One. Its usefulness is limited to giving a new/casual exerciser a rough estimate for a productive HR target, something a doctor might use to encourage a sedentary patient to get moving and give him an idea how fast he should walk. It’s utterly worthless for athletic purposes. No trainer *ever* uses it. They always use your true max to define training zones.
> 
> ...


You really do like to insist you know better than medical professionals  

So why do us older folks worry so much about health?

Well, clearly we aren't ready to die, but more to the point, the "fear" is that a healthy person can get sick and can die prematurely.

So we like to bolster our fears with facts that support our way of thinking, hence "natural medicine", focusing on the side effects of medicine, criticizing medical practice, etc...

But here's the key takeaway: You can only control so much. Medical practice can control conditions that you can't control through "natural means".

Have a great new year and take care of yourself, there's only so much you can do to delay the inevitable.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> well then f- it, I'm gonna to get a script for statins


So my wife is a primary care provider, and as you would expect, she has tons of stories about folks who refused treatment.

The one she told me the other day was about a widower, he's around fifty years old, he lost his wife last year.

The deceased was also a patient of my wife, the patient had elevated cholesterol and a few other cardiac risk factors, BUT she refused to take statins because of the risk.

She died of a heart attack.

Seeing the forest through the trees takes practice.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Sanchofula said:


> So my wife is a primary care provider, and as you would expect, she has tons of stories about folks who refused treatment.
> 
> The one she told me the other day was about a widower, he's around fifty years old, he lost his wife last year.
> 
> ...




That's a sad story but what did it have to do with my post you quoted?


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

J.B. Weld said:


> That's a sad story but what did it have to do with my post you quoted?


Nothing. Anecdotes vs data . . . trust the data.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

Sanchofula said:


> You really do like to insist you know better than medical professionals


I trust my family doctor in every way. 

I distrust generalizations that are at odds with the data. There's absolutely NO way anyone can tell you your max HR from any equation. There's simply too much variation.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Your heart is more resilient than you think... I had open heart surgery 11/23/21 to replace a Bicuspid Aortic valve, plus repair an ascending aortic aneurysm. They put me in Deep hypothermic circulatory arrest (11 min) to repair the aneurysm, then replaced the Aortic valve... I was back to work in seven weeks, my first ride on blacktop was March 5th. First dirt ride was April 5th rode the Mohican trail May 15th. Yesterday I rode my Farley for 2-½ hours in the snow, your body will let you know if you're pushing too hard... 
I'm 63 years old and Strava has me down for 1500 plus miles this year.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

tmbrown said:


> ... I was back to work in seven weeks, my first ride on blacktop was March 5th. First dirt ride was April 5th rode the Mohican trail May 15th. Yesterday I rode my Farley for 2-½ hours in the snow, your body will let you know if you're pushing too hard...
> I'm 63 years old and Strava has me down for 1500 plus miles this year.


Glad to hear you’re doing well! We rode our Farleys in the snow yesterday too, but only for 90 minutes, and are trying to get motivated to repeat today, with sloppy conditions in a couple more days. I’m still getting the hang of this snow business so I probably ride too tense. Conditions are still prime but muscles feel yesterdays ride. Great for core muscles and especially the winter mood.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So you understand why the OP expressed his concerns? Because even healthy people can “blow up their heart”.

The guidelines that medical providers use are just that: guidelines. If you think of guidelines as a tool to help guide choices, using guidelines can help you understand what is “normal”.

Take the poster who suggested he’s like a hummingbird because runs a high heart rate for his age. Now he might just be fine running tachy, but some folks won’t be fine; he may not be fine either, that’s for him to discover. At least he knows he runs tachy.

The point is to make educated decisions and avoid blowing off recommendations just because you think you’re special. There are a lot of very dead people who thought they were special.

Do you know why defibrillators are so widespread?

Hint: It’s not because fibrillation is uncommon.

The story about the lady was to illustrate how folks who ignore medical advice often pay the price. I’d bet that lady would have chosen to take statins over taking a dirt bath 🙄


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## Dunnigan (9 mo ago)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> If you are worried (rightfully so at this age) I would schedule an appointment with a cardiologist and other doctors to get a complete physical, blood work, etc.
> Personally, at 60 (going on 61 in 2 weeks) I'm mostly on top of my health and still able to push pretty hard and can mostly stay up with the young guys.
> I've felt that how hard I've pushed myself, if I haven't experience and heart or other health issue's by now, I think I'm okay.
> 2022 was challenging though. I was riding really strong, stronger than I had in probably five years, then in July I got Covid pretty bad. It took over a month to start feeling decent. In August, I had a stick fly into my front wheel, throwing me over the bars, tearing a muscle near my elbow. In September I threw my back out. I just started riding again 2 weeks ago.


That's a rough stretch. Go crush that comeback trail!


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## Dunnigan (9 mo ago)

If you are concerned there's something that snuck up on you and would cause a problem, a cardiologist can do things like stress test to see if there's anything funny going on in your ticker when you push it. Not a bad idea if it's been years since you raced. 
My doc says I don't have any red flags. I have terrible family history for CAD, but my numbers are looking good so far at 50. Each race is like a stress test, although without an EKG and without a doc in the room.  I get an annual physical with blood work, and I'm counting on decent eating, training, and racing to keep me away from major interventions by a cardiologist. Open heart surgery doesn't look fun. 
Pushing it hard as a master still feels like it always did, but I notice my threshold HR is lower and I don't hit the same max HR numbers I saw in my youth. That's normal. There are reasons there are no 50 year olds on the World Tour. Still plenty of fun yet to be had on the bike, though.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Dunnigan said:


> My doc says I don't have any red flags. I have terrible family history for CAD, but my numbers are looking good so far at 50. Each race is like a stress test, although without an EKG and without a doc in the room.  I get an annual physical with blood work, and I'm counting on decent eating, training, and racing to keep me away from major interventions by a cardiologist. Open heart surgery doesn't look fun.
> Pushing it hard as a master still feels like it always did, but I notice my threshold HR is lower and I don't hit the same max HR numbers I saw in my youth. That's normal. There are reasons there are no 50 year olds on the World Tour. Still plenty of fun yet to be had on the bike, though.


Pretty similar situation here. My doc routinely gives me high ratings. No need to throttle back at 56, in my case.


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

Crankout said:


> Pretty similar situation here. My doc routinely gives me high ratings. No need to throttle back at 56, in my case.


Your avatar makes you look older. 

I figure most of us are pretty good in our fifties, heart wise. Minus the few who God made an appointment to talk to you and won't let you miss it. I have heard that coming up on 70 is when, even the fit guys, hit the wall.

When Jesus is suddenly riding next to you, on a single speed, and you wonder why he is in the race.


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## Dunnigan (9 mo ago)

There’s a dude in his early 70s racing sport xc around here. I mean, he’s not the fastest guy out there, but he’s out there.


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

Dunnigan said:


> There’s a dude in his early 70s racing sport xc around here. I mean, he’s not the fastest guy out there, but he’s out there.


That was Chuck Norris. The wall got old and ran into him.


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

Dunnigan said:


> There’s a dude in his early 70s racing sport xc around here. I mean, he’s not the fastest guy out there, but he’s out there.





ZX11 said:


> That was Chuck Norris. The wall got old and ran into him.


Check out the 70+ riders thread - our own 77 year old Chuck Norris, aka @Velobike, is racing in a 24 hour solo winter sufferfest in the Scottish Highlands this weekend! Maybe send him your "thoughts and prayers".


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

ZX11 said:


> Your avatar makes you look older.


Ha!


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