# What gun to carry on rides



## Dirty Bastard (Jan 23, 2008)

I am curious about long time carriers point of view on what gun is most appropriate to carry on a MTB ride. I live in a state that allows carry on a bicycle and have started when MTB riding to take my ruger SR9 with me. It is just kinda odd fitting into my pack and I am not sure if its the right tool for the job. I have been considering a revolver with half snake-shoot/reg rounds but am not sure what to use really. I live in the southwest desert with snakes/coyote/mountain lion being only real predators so no I am NOT packing for bear country. Any suggestions/favorite carry piece and reasons why are wanted. If you are going to post a negative reply about guns or anti-gun preaching please take it elsewhere. Any if it does happen no one reply/give them time of day please. OK GO!!!!!


----------



## AndyN (Jan 12, 2004)

+rep for starting a doomed thread


----------



## Dirty Bastard (Jan 23, 2008)

It may be doomed but if I get one or two good suggestions id be happy!


----------



## wbmason55 (May 30, 2010)

*Best MTBR Resource:*

You'll find tons of information on this topic in the Recycle Bin forum.


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 3, 2005)

S&W J frame in .38 special.


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 3, 2005)

Ruger LCP in .380 auto


----------



## SuperSlow35th (Jul 22, 2011)

Not to start a fight, and forgive my ignorance if this has been battered to death....but.....


I take it the idea of carrying on the trail is frowned upon around here? Ive been debating it since 4 or 5 bodies have been found near our local trails.


----------



## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

I roll up my jersey sleeves so the ladies get a good view of my guns!


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

I prefer my Walther PPS .40 in a Bellyband...
The Walther is less than an inch thick so it works well in tight conditions.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Anonymous said:


> Ruger LCP in .380 auto


Also a very good carry piece... And very easy to fit in a pack!


----------



## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

Why? A bit paranoid? Put on your big boy pants.


----------



## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

Glock 35 firing .357 SIG:
Big light body for intimidation and picking up chicks and a fast round to blast through the cars of any shady eyed motorists who look at me funny on the way to the trail.

Just kidding, my heat stays at home


----------



## Blade-Runner (Nov 26, 2007)

Glock 19


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2012)

Smith and Wesson M&P .40 compact. Excellent gun. Just a hair bigger than a Glock 27, and holds 1 more round.


----------



## thrasher_s (Oct 5, 2009)

Dirty Bastard said:


> I am curious about long time carriers point of view on what gun is most appropriate to carry on a MTB ride. I live in a state that allows carry on a bicycle and have started when MTB riding to take my ruger SR9 with me. It is just kinda odd fitting into my pack and I am not sure if its the right tool for the job. I have been considering a revolver with half snake-shoot/reg rounds but am not sure what to use really. I live in the southwest desert with snakes/coyote/mountain lion being only real predators so no I am NOT packing for bear country. Any suggestions/favorite carry piece and reasons why are wanted. If you are going to post a negative reply about guns or anti-gun preaching please take it elsewhere. Any if it does happen no one reply/give them time of day please. OK GO!!!!!


Could you describe your riding style so we can make better recommendations? Also, 29er or 26er?

I personally carry a titanium battle-axe with a carbon fiber handle for AM rides, a pair of Japanese katanas for XC (the Japanese make the BEST bike weapons), and a full on jousting lance for DH.


----------



## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Can't remember the last time I was attacked by the rabbits and snakes while out rising in the desert.....really wished I had my gun to fight them off.

Though the Ti Battle Axe w/ carbon handle sounds like it might do the job.

EDIT: Sorry but I don't get this - Rep I recieved: _I hope a Mexy eats you._


----------



## rustus (May 28, 2004)

I carry, just not on the trails. Neither of my pistols are light/small enough to wear comfortably (both 1911's) and I don't think they would do me any good in the camelback. I can avoid snakes, coyotes are not a threat, and a mountain lion would be on me before I could dig a pistol out of my camelback. I have been bitten by a hiker's dog, but it would probably not have been appropriate to shoot it.:skep:


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

stumblemumble said:


> Why? A bit paranoid? Put on your big boy pants.


This just happened at a trail less than two miles from my house... I ride it on a weekly basis.

DA: Robbery victim, 65, justified in shooting of teens on trail | Regional: Berks - Home


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2012)

You wont find a bigger gun-carrying advocate than me, but I have to tell ya- this thread isnt going anywhere. Any thread about guns brings up the "what do you need that for" questions, then the angry obama votes come out and attack. 

Carry a small lightwieght polymer automatic. Something like a 40 or 45 with a double stack magazine that can hold at least 10 rds.Think about animals and stopping power of your ammunition. Hollow point is always a plus when you link about a charging animal. 

Cant rule out stumbling upon a satanic ritual or zombie den either. 

Make 'em count


----------



## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Eckstream1 said:


> This just happened at a trail less than two miles from my house... I ride it on a weekly basis.
> 
> DA: Robbery victim, 65, justified in shooting of teens on trail | Regional: Berks - Home


And a trail I ride on a regular basis.....often solo had a mountain biker mauled to death by a mountain lion a few years back.

I'll take my chances......thanks.


----------



## Urbansniper (Jun 12, 2011)

thought about carrying a glock 27 in a camelback...but i am afraid if i land on my back hard...landing on the sidearm would cause some bodily damage?


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2012)

Cant hurt more than a pump or a multi-tool. Put the weapon in a soft holster . Should be fine


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

mtnbikej said:


> And a trail I ride on a regular basis.....often solo had a mountain biker mauled to death by a mountain lion a few years back.
> 
> I'll take my chances......thanks.


That's ok... It's you're choice to make.
Stumble asked why... I showed my reason.
:thumbsup:


----------



## Mr.Bee (Aug 22, 2010)




----------



## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

You might as well throw all the chips on the table......politics/abortion/gay marriage/29 vs. 26/non-fat vs. whole milk/beta vs. VHS/Ford vs. Chevy.....etc. these kind of threads always go to the sh*tter......and quick.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*bear or no bear*

habitats where bears are not a factor:

used: 
Colt Detective revolver, 6 shot snub, loaded with 158 gr +P 38 Specai.

new: 
Ruger SP101 (5 shots) snub revolver, or GP100 (6 shots) 3" barrel 357/38 Special revolver (the 3" 357 revolvers were FBI carry, until they went to 10 MM then 40 S&W). Revolvers are more dependable & versatile.
-or-
Colt 1911 5" bbl 45 ACP pistol (some in the lower 48 States defensed vs a brown bear with such use in 2011).

...where bears are a sighificant factor:
Ruger Redhawk 44 RM or SuperRedhawk 454 Casull revolver.

for moutain use, load heavy-for-caliber ammo, for deeper penetration through bones, in firearms known for reliability.

Since I do not have the responsibility and the priviledge of a CCW permit, I pack either a locking or fixed knife. I have no delusions of survial, but perhaps I can leave my mark when assulted. also useful to cut cheese.

p.s. Wilderness First Aid and CPR Certified.


----------



## dchandle (Jan 11, 2012)

I carry on a regular basis & live in the great state of Pennsylvania (where a recent incident most likely inspired this thread). I currently do NOT carry while engaged in any physical outdoors activity (climbing/biking/kayaking) because I do not know how to properly retain a firearm while making sure it's accessible. Don't get me wrong, there are stories of people being shot while engaged in each of those activities, but until I can safely carry my firearm with a realistic time to deploy it I'll leave it in my car.

I don't want to pick on anyone here, but any firearm carried in a pack (or under a skirt while kayaking) is not going to be deployable if you need it. We know that people can close 21' before most people can deploy a firearm from an open carry position from the hip. So someone is going to be, what, 50'+ before you can deploy from a backpack. The two problems with this should be obvious: You're going to have a tough time convincing anyone that retreat was not an option at 50'+/ You are better off deploying a close quarters weapon (assuming any level of training) by the time you can get a firearm out of deep concealment.

Again, I'll never judge someone who safely carries a firearm, I just don't see any method of ideal carry while engaged in these types of outdoor activities. That said, I'd love to look at options though, so if you have a holster/carrying method you like I'll gladly entertain it. My EDC's are a MTAC Spartan for my M&P 40 & I have a IWB custom rig for my S&W 642 & I pair both with my Beltman belt.


----------



## SuperSlow35th (Jul 22, 2011)

^Thats what I was thinking about the more I thought about it. I can think of anywhere comfortably. safely, and legally I could carry the weapon where itd still be readily accessible. I dont currently have my concealed liscence anyways. But I figure my Sig P229 .40 is probably a little on the large side for a CC.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*thank you*



Eckstream1 said:


> This just happened at a trail less than two miles from my house... I ride it on a weekly basis.
> 
> DA: Robbery victim, 65, justified in shooting of teens on trail | Regional: Berks - Home


thanks for sharing. wish more States allow citizens to have carry permits


----------



## huffyhills (Jan 30, 2010)

*what gun to carry*

Glock 17 for me and right on my hip. Its worthless in a camelback, too many big cats here not to mention cartel pot growers


----------



## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

I agree with DC, I have multiple firearms, but only because I like them. I don't have them because I'm paranoid or insecure since I know I would rather be shot than shoot someone else. That being said, if someone meant to harm my dog or girlfriend I would empty every clip I have at them. I have a Glock 17 for home defense that is accessible almost immediately, but is also safely concealed.

It's a hazard if it is not safely restrained and it's dead wait if you can't get to it.

I think bike cops use a belt, but I would go with a chest mount.

something like this










but if you run out of bullets you will need a sword so I would get something like this


----------



## Hutch3637 (Jul 1, 2011)

mtnbikej said:


> You might as well throw all the chips on the table......politics/abortion/gay marriage/29 vs. 26/non-fat vs. whole milk/beta vs. VHS/Ford vs. Chevy.....etc. these kind of threads always go to the *SHITTER*......and quick.


Fixed.


----------



## willrace4food (Jan 11, 2009)

I debating getting a Chiappa rhino right now. Not necessarily for on my bike, more for the concept appreciation Chiappa Firearms


----------



## Brazos (Apr 12, 2009)

I would carry this: Product: Model M&P360

It will give you the abilty to carry both snake shot and hollowpoints. Its small and lightweight. Being a .357 you have the ability to carry .38 specials if you want. Also being a 357 mag it has power if you need it. It does kick like a mother &^%$'er when shooting 357's though. It's a carry often shoot seldom type gun which is what you are looking for.


----------



## Stupendous Man (Jan 12, 2004)

Do you really need a firearm for protection from snakes?


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Stupendous Man said:


> Do you really need a firearm for protection from snakes?


I personally would leave em alone... They keep the rat population down!
And I'm terrified of snakes... Haha


----------



## dchandle (Jan 11, 2012)

willrace4food said:


> I debating getting a Chiappa rhino right now. Not necessarily for on my bike, more for the concept appreciation


Off topic:

People have been trying to improve the revolver for the past 140 yrs. & most have failed miserably. I really like the concept of the Rhino, came very close to purchasing one & I'm very grateful that I fired one before I purchased it. The perceived recoil reduction isn't that impressive (with modern grips you can achieve the same thing on most firearms), the hand placement you are forced to use (or face getting burned) is not natural, and the dimensions/weight makes it impossible (or next to) for pocket carry.

Best luck to you though. It's a novel idea & I look forward to the next iterations of this design.


----------



## Moonshine Willie (Oct 21, 2009)

People sometimes fantasize about gunning down evildoers, me among them.

I am the best friend and confidant of a person who was ruled as being 100 percent justified in using a gun to kill a deranged assailant with a long and storied criminal history. In this case, no one, not even the assailant's family disagreed that the deceased assailant was anything other than a deranged and evil psychopath, a total POS who deserved to be gunned down like a dog. Not a single person, not even the assailant's family, disagreed that the assailant would have killed my friend had he not been stopped by my friend's pistol.

That was a quite a while ago.

My friend has never been the same since the incident. His life was forever changed after the event, even after lots of counseling and after years of people telling him that he had acted in the same manner as any reasonable person would.

My best friend is not the same happy-go-lucky person I remember when we were kids. He's more like a ghost these days. We have talked about this topic dozens of times. We have gone over it again and again. He is convinced that he did the right thing and that he had no other choice, and yet he feels that the incident resulted in the loss of a substantial part of himself somehow. He has no idea why.

My friend is not a pansy, though he was never a hard person, either. The last time we talked about the thing, he told me he wished shooting an evildoer was like the movies, where the cops rule the shooting justified, where there are pats on the back and camaraderie around the bar afterward around a few beers, where the incident is shaken off and people go on with their lives. But it's not like that for my friend. It's like something ricocheted off of his assailant and mortally wounded his psyche.

After talking with my friend, I guess I understand now that shooting someone isn't like the movies. I guess if you go into the situation with your eyes open and are fully aware of what lies ahead, you'll do what you feel is right. You'll pack a pistol in your Camelbak or not. Hopefully if you are ever placed in the same situation as my friend, things will work out better for you than it did for him.

I've thought many times about carrying while I'm riding my bike and I've had a couple of hairy situations with animals and people on the trail. I mostly don't carry anything while I ride because when I'm riding, the last thing I'm thinking about is violence or about violence being perpetrated on me. I usually only think about carrying a pistol in my pack sometimes on stormy nights when I'm just about to fall asleep. The idea is usually gone the next morning when I'm awake and the sun is out.

Sorry for the long post. I guess it's something I needed to get off my chest.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

It's always amazing how many people advocate (and carry) "belly-guns" and other personal defense weapons out in the wilderness. Small caliber weapons that won't penetrate worth anything when thinking about what might be encountered (lion, javelina, wild dogs, even big coyote). And why they may be able to hit a target 50' away while nice and calm and concentrating, fairly unlikely with any stress. Given the extremely short barreled nature of these guns and how proper sights are often left off of these guns, they are poor at best and worthless at worst. Most handguns work very differently from rifles. Riflle rounds introduce a "shock wave" that tears apart innards and causes massive blood pressure loss (if a vital organ is not hit directly). Handguns have to hit a vital organ or rely on round "expansion" to do the same, and their penetration is much poorer, meaning they won't make anywhere near as big as a "channel" as the rifle round. So, these tiny .380acps are pretty poor, and even 9mm is a very small round to be considering for any kind of animal. Even though you can get some pretty high power 9mm rounds (I used em in my USP), they are way better people-killers than animal killers. About the absolute minimum would be a +P .45, but even then you're talking a fairly low powered round for the use. The best realistic round is usually a .357 magnum, and there are several nice compact and lightweight revolvers these days. Anything less IMO and you're just carrying extra stuff to carry extra stuff and not provide any benefit. It might make you feel good to know you have 18 rounds or whatever, but scattering small low power rounds isn't how game is usually brought down. Animals don't care as much as humans if they get shot a few times, as long as it's not a vital organ.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Moonshine Willie said:


> and yet he feels that the incident resulted in the loss of a substantial part of himself somehow. He has no idea why.


I'm sorry your friend is having a hard time dealing with the aftermath...
However... Think about what your friend would have lost had he not chose to do what he did.

The choice to carry is a very personal decision and not one to be taken lightly.... I'm just glad that your friend was not the one killed.


----------



## willrace4food (Jan 11, 2009)

*o/t*



dchandle said:


> Off topic:
> 
> People have been trying to improve the revolver for the past 140 yrs. & most have failed miserably. I really like the concept of the Rhino, came very close to purchasing one & I'm very grateful that I fired one before I purchased it. The perceived recoil reduction isn't that impressive (with modern grips you can achieve the same thing on most firearms), the hand placement you are forced to use (or face getting burned) is not natural, and the dimensions/weight makes it impossible (or next to) for pocket carry.
> 
> Best luck to you though. It's a novel idea & I look forward to the next iterations of this design.


I definitely am trying to find one in stock locally so I can try it before buying. It seems from what I have read so far is it either fits your hand or it doesn't. I won't own a weapon if it doesn't feel like a natural extension of the body. thanks for the heads up though.


----------



## Moonshine Willie (Oct 21, 2009)

Eckstream1 said:


> .... I'm just glad that your friend was not the one killed.


Thanks. Me too.


----------



## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Anonymous said:


> S&W J frame in .38 special.


Model 60 .357 loaded with .38 +P in case of curious big cats and surly pot growers.


----------



## twebeast (Mar 30, 2008)

Uzzi on a handlebar mount. Show dem mofo cougars whose da boss


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

something full auto, that will teach those damn rabbits!


----------



## dsintov (Apr 13, 2010)

i think the biggest threat to a person on a bicycle is dogs,and if you carry bear spray you can go ahead and use it even if you are not sure that your life is in danger,like if you see a large dog charging you.sure you could kill the dog with a bullet but how are you going to feel if after you shot the dog someone rides up and tells you that you just killed their pet and that the dog was in fact wagging its tail and wanted to play.or maybe a couger attacks and you shoot it dead and then you find out the couger had cub to feed.
with bear spray you can make a mistake and not have to worry about any consequences.


----------



## dchandle (Jan 11, 2012)

Jayem:
I'm not sure any handgun is suitable against a lion, javelina, wild dogs, coyote. If the sound of a shot won't scare them off then nothing short of a shotgun would be suitable IMHO. I'm a proficient shot & I don't think I could engage an animal charging me with any handgun.
The question, like always, is where are you traveling and will (forgive me for this) give you the most bang for the buck.

Moonshine:
Thanks for sharing that story about your friend. You really just highlighted the mental, not just physical, preparation that needs to take place prior to someone carrying a firearm. I sincerely hope he continues to heal and that maybe his story can allow others to carry with a proper mindset.


----------



## trodaq (Jun 11, 2011)

willrace4food said:


> I debating getting a Chiappa rhino right now. Not necessarily for on my bike, more for the concept appreciation Chiappa Firearms


 Ive havent fired one but I was able to handle one at a friends shop. Felt okay but its butt ugly.
Ive also considered carrying on the trail but cant figure out a safe way to do it. Revolver would be the least likely to shoot you in the event of a fall. I wouldnt want it against my hip or any body part in the event of a fall. Chest rig seems reasonable as far as this concern, but accesibility is gone. 
Coyotes are about the only threat I would face in my area. This only concerns me if I were injured in a crash and unable to get myself out.


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

Eckstream1 said:


> Also a very good carry piece... And very easy to fit in a pack!


Why would you carry a gun in your pack? If you had time to take your pack off and fetch your .380, you'd have more time to run.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

the_owl said:


> Why would you carry a gun in your pack? If you had time to take your pack off and fetch your .380, you'd have more time to run.





Eckstream1 said:


> I prefer my Walther PPS .40 in a Bellyband...
> The Walther is less than an inch thick so it works well in tight conditions.


I don't carry in my pack...
I was just stating that the Ruger LCP was a small pistol and packs nicely.


----------



## NukeDOC (Jan 27, 2012)

has anyone ever thought about a starter gun with blanks as an alternative to carrying live ammo? i would think that the loud blast would be enough to scare a robber away. and most animals too. 

dont get me wrong, i like the idea of carrying while riding in questionable areas. but sometimes the growl is scarier than the bite.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

NukeDOC said:


> has anyone ever thought about a starter gun with blanks as an alternative to carrying live ammo? i would think that the loud blast would be enough to scare a robber away. and most animals too.
> 
> dont get me wrong, i like the idea of carrying while riding in questionable areas. but sometimes the growl is scarier than the bite.


It's an interesting idea...
But I would prefer to carry the real deal...

Really you could get birdshot handgun ammo as a deterant and a defense round for a follow up shot. My home defense shotgun has a 00 rubber ball load first with a lead slug loaded behind it...


----------



## NukeDOC (Jan 27, 2012)

i agree. im a big supporter of our second ammendment, judging just from what i read about the 65 y/o gentleman who had to kill a minor in self defence, it was an unfortunate turnout, but i believe he was in the right. at his age, its either him or them. but i just dont like the idea of untrained people carrying a firearm for protection and not have the right mind set to be able to use it in the right way when the time actually comes.

i have taken friends out shooting before. trained them in proper safe handling. got them accustomed to the weapon. and in the end when they asked me if they should get one of their own, several times i have said a firm NO. because at that point, i did not feel they had a real understanding of the responsibility they held in their hand. so for those people... maybe it would be good to have a gun loaded with blanks... at least for the first three rounds then followed up with some shot shells =)

my home defense is an XD 9mm with only shot shells that will not penetrate drywall, but will penetrate flesh. with the houses so close together here in san diego and other people living in the house (family) the last thing i need is a stray round finding its way into the wrong target. i have had to draw my weapon once (false alarm... long story), and even then i am still in the mindset that i have to make sure its safe behind my target in case i miss. not a lot of people think about that when the time comes IMO. in california at least.


----------



## Dirty Bastard (Jan 23, 2008)

The reason I bring it up is because we have have mountain lions and the very rare bear down here in the south where I live. Now no it won't do me any good if I am directly attacked by them but if my buddy is I might be able to shoot/scare off the animal with the gun. Also if someone is going through my truck when I get to that point of the trail where I can see the parking lot I have time to get that out for self defense if needed.


----------



## dchandle (Jan 11, 2012)

NukeDOC said:


> has anyone ever thought about a starter gun with blanks as an alternative to carrying live ammo? i would think that the loud blast would be enough to scare a robber away. and most animals too.
> 
> dont get me wrong, i like the idea of carrying while riding in questionable areas. but sometimes the growl is scarier than the bite.


Please do not carry something that appears to be capable of lethal force but is only a glorified noise maker. A starter pistol, in this application, is nothing more than a talisman to make you feel better & can easily get you killed.


----------



## NukeDOC (Jan 27, 2012)

i know im opening up a can of worms here. but i just wanna know why a talisman that makes you feel better is not better than a talisman that makes you feel better and is capable of lethal force. not trying to stir the pot, just trying to understand your train of thought. its good to hear different sides of a subject.


----------



## dchandle (Jan 11, 2012)

Still Off Topic

NukeDoc (awesome name) not here to start a debate, but since you asked:

A firearm is capable of inflicting great bodily injury by causing destruction of tissue/organs. 
A starter pistol is capable of making a big boom.

One carries the power of life & death while the other carries the power of a firework. One is a talisman (something that makes you feel better) while the other is power of life & death (not a talisman).

There are cases of people pulling an airsoft/starter pistol where someone else had a firearm and deployed it to kill the person with the fake firearm. I would just hate for a good person to be injured, or worse, because they decided to deploy a novelty when their life was on the line.


----------



## mobius911 (Oct 25, 2011)

thrasher_s said:


> Could you describe your riding style so we can make better recommendations? Also, 29er or 26er?
> 
> I personally carry a titanium battle-axe with a carbon fiber handle for AM rides, a pair of Japanese katanas for XC (the Japanese make the BEST bike weapons), and a full on jousting lance for DH.


Still chuckling over this one!


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

dchandle said:


> There are cases of people pulling an airsoft/starter pistol where someone else had a firearm and deployed it to kill the person with the fake firearm. I would just hate for a good person to be injured, or worse, because they decided to deploy a novelty when their life was on the line.


Yup...


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

People attacking other people a lot of times dont even know they have been shot. If your round doesnt drop them with a kill shot or spinal injury, they tend to usually proceed to come at you.
If you dont want to carry a real gun, dont carry a fake one. thats a hell of a bluff to call.


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

I carry a colt agent .38spl on the road bike inside the waistband. I have to ride through the 'hood to get out into the country from my apartment.

In the 'hood, its not necessarily the people you have to worry about. Its the peoples pit bulls. They will chase you up to 30 miles per hour. I am most afraid of them knocking me off my bike and trying to get a piece of me while on the ground. Thats primarily why I carry on the road.

Riding trails, I usually leave my piece at home unless Im in bear country. Then its right with me on my hip!

But Im also a realist. I realize that sh*t happens and I try to go out of my way to cover my bases. I owe it to my loved ones.


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

And to answer the OPs question, I think its all about what your needs are vs how much protection you want to carry.

I personally think a small .380 would do the trick for coyotes or mt lions. I am actually in the market for a keltec p3at. Its light, cheap, and super slim. So it would be perfect for the abuse of biking.


----------



## bycyclist (Oct 13, 2008)

Revolver (like the Ruger LCR). I've crashed before carrying one of my small-frame semi-autos and when I took the gun out of my chest pack, the mag had dropped. Apparently something hit the mag release and partially dropped the mag. Revolvers also work better for contact shots should the need arise. Note that both cases involve minimizing the chance of malfunctions - specifically for this application (mtb carry).


----------



## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

I don't carry when I ride, but when I fly fish in bear country I carry a lightweight scandium S&W J-Frame .44 magnum. This revolver is the most painful miserable thing in the world to shoot, but I can get 5 rounds off fairly accurately. After that my hand hurts. I've had a few close encounters and false charges from grizzlies, but luckily have never had to use it. Back in the day it was illegal to carry in National Parks, but this was one law that nobody observed in Alaska, better to be judged by nine than carried by six.... Also consider the .38 special version. Lightweight revolvers are the way to go for hiking and other outdoor pursuits.


----------



## EatingDirt (Jan 4, 2012)

What about a Mosin Nagant 91/30 7.62x54R? Be sure to "wash" your gun barrel after using if using corrosive ammo.

Interesting thread...


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Hm, so far in this thread I have only read 2 posts that give me any reason to say "Yeah, I get that"... Sheepo in the 'hood being more worried about pit bulls, altho I seriously doubt his or anyone's ability to be able to get a gun out and shoot it effectively before getting attacked; then the Boz carrying while fishing in bear country makes sense to me. As for everyone else being worried about snakes, mountain lion, pot growers(!), whatever else, your level of paranoia suggests that if any of these threats were to actually materialise, you would be waaay too excited to actually find/deploy/effectively use your manhood extension, sorry, gun.


----------



## kazkut (Jan 18, 2012)

I carry my gun for the 2 legged critters! 

Avoiding and walking away from the situation usually works, but if you cannot run, then you must fight.

A few nights ago when I was riding my bike in the neighborhood, a random young couple said "hey bike guy!" while I was walking my bike into my home(this was at 3AM). I wasn't sure what they wanted so I just stared at them for a while to see if they needed help. the guy walked off and the girl about 15 seconds later. They were about 20 yards away from me in the alley. Just found out their house was raided by the police yesterday. Good thing I didn't approach them that night, who knows what that could have escalated into.

Oh, I carry a Kel-tec PF9. After putting 500 rds through it (last 300 rds were trouble free), I can now trust it to handle my carrying needs.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

kazkut said:


> I carry my gun for the 2 legged critters!
> 
> Avoiding and walking away from the situation usually works, but if you cannot run, then you must fight.
> 
> ...


I am glad you deployed the much more effective weapon of 'common sense' rather than coming out with all guns blazing.


----------



## River19 (Jul 3, 2007)

Taurus Judge alternating between .410 and .45 shells would be an interesting choice.....or the previously mentioned LCP.......

To each his own, carrying is a choice, and it comes with a ton of responsibility, if someone chooses to go that route, it is their right. That is what makes America a wonderful place.


----------



## cigarlover (Oct 24, 2011)

Don't worry OP- your not alone on here. When dealing with the criminals and worst society has to offer and seeing the evil things people will do to one another.In a society like ours today you are either one of two things. " A victim or Not !!!


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

Sheep, Wolves, and Sheep Dogs.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Boz said:


> but when I fly fish in bear country I carry a lightweight scandium S&W J-Frame .44 magnum.


Is that the Model 396 MountainLite? I have one of those... :thumbsup:


----------



## trodaq (Jun 11, 2011)

Had a Ruger Alaskan 2 1/2 in 454 Casull. Had more fun handing it to people and then watching them shoot it. Got a little expensive and the novelty wore off so I sold it.
. Big bores are great if you can actully shoot them. Follow ups are difficult at best


----------



## Mojo Troll (Jun 3, 2004)

*bear spray.*

I mean seriously. Why not care bear spray, mace etc...

If a big bear or cat gets the better of me. I can honestly say I went out doing something I was passionate about. The odds are rediculously low.

The day I have to pack heat or lock my front door for that matter. Is the day I pack my sh!t and relocate.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Mojo Troll said:


> The day I have to pack heat or lock my front door for that matter. Is the day I pack my sh!t and relocate.


I wish it was that easy...


----------



## GittinSkinny (Jan 12, 2010)

I just figured everyone with a gas tank bag was carrying a pistol. Just like everyone with a fanny pack.

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=store.catalog&CategoryID=2&ProductID=3

I guess I could be wrong?


----------



## mitzikatzi (Sep 9, 2008)




----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

EatingDirt said:


> What about a Mosin Nagant 91/30 7.62x54R? Be sure to "wash" your gun barrel after using if using corrosive ammo.
> 
> Interesting thread...


I like my Mosin. Definitely a bear stopper. But Im not too sure it would fit in my pocket.


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Haha thats funny. 

My g pa is old as dirt and he never practices, but he can drive nails with his colt python! 

Dont mess with old people. They were raised in different times and aren't afraid to fight!


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

the_owl said:


> you'd have more time to run.


Running is for prey.


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

Mojo Troll said:


> I mean seriously. Why not care bear spray, mace etc...
> 
> If a big bear or cat gets the better of me. I can honestly say I went out doing something I was passionate about. The odds are rediculously low.
> 
> The day I have to pack heat or lock my front door for that matter. Is the day I pack my sh!t and relocate.


I guess you live in a great place, are really young, or have been fortunate enough not to see the darker side of people.
Thats your choice to carry bear spray. Personally, I dont think people are inherently good. Certainly the good people I encounter will never need to know about whats under my belt (assuming I packed while I ride)

AZ, its more of a citation of a situation, and the time it would take to remove your pack, unzip, take a gun out and pull the trigger. 10 seconds? If I had 10 seconds in a situation like that, I probably dont need to be shooting something.


----------



## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

Dirty Bastard said:


> What gun to carry on rides


The one that makes your dick feel the biggest. :lol:

LOL, actually a Sig Sauer Mosquito packs away quite nicely, although the Kimber Solo Carry has a more solid handling weight/feel to it.


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 3, 2005)

Leopold Porkstacker said:


> The one that makes your dick feel the biggest. :lol:
> 
> LOL, actually a Sig Sauer Mosquito packs away quite nicely, although the Kimber Solo Carry has a more solid handling weight/feel to it.


The only reason I own firearms is to compensate for my small penis.

That and to kill things.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Yup, I guess that just goes to show that it's all about penis extension! 
Seriously, what a bunch of paranoid, delusional, idiots. You've been playing too many shoot 'em up video games. You are all responsible for helping make your society and mine a more fearful place to live. It takes two to tango, and it's not just the misguided kid to blame, but everyone who only reaches out to them thru the barrel of a gun.
Go out, ride your bikes, use common sense, and try and make this world a better place. That will not happen with everyone walking round packing heat. That is extremely uncivilized.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Knives out, this should be a carve up...


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

rockerc said:


> Yup, I guess that just goes to show that it's all about penis extension!
> Seriously, what a bunch of paranoid, delusional, idiots. You've been playing too many shoot 'em up video games. You are all responsible for helping make your society and mine a more fearful place to live. It takes two to tango, and it's not just the misguided kid to blame, but everyone who only reaches out to them thru the barrel of a gun.
> Go out, ride your bikes, use common sense, and try and make this world a better place. That will not happen with everyone walking round packing heat. That is extremely uncivilized.





rockerc said:


> Knives out, this should be a carve up...


Thank you for your contribution (worthless as it was)...
Please keep your anti gun ideals out of a thread dealing with guns.

Didn't your mama teach you "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all"?

:thumbsup:


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

rockerc said:


> Yup, I guess that just goes to show that it's all about penis extension!
> Seriously, what a bunch of paranoid, delusional, idiots. You've been playing too many shoot 'em up video games. You are all responsible for helping make your society and mine a more fearful place to live. It takes two to tango, and it's not just the misguided kid to blame, but everyone who only reaches out to them thru the barrel of a gun.
> Go out, ride your bikes, use common sense, and try and make this world a better place. That will not happen with everyone walking round packing heat. That is extremely uncivilized.





rockerc said:


> Knives out, this should be a carve up...


C'mon, you can do much better than an obvious troll. I usually appreciate your posts but these two are just too transparent.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Heheh! By the same token as what Eckstream says, I could say the same thing about keeping gun talk out of an MTB forum. As for trolling, I totally realise that this thread keeps going nowhere... I am just trying to hasten the process. If I get carved up in this process, so what? I'll be out on me bike.
I do believe what I say, and my opinion is as valid as the next person's opinion.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

rockerc said:


> Heheh! By the same token as what Eckstream says, I could say the same thing about keeping gun talk out of an MTB forum. As for trolling, I totally realise that this thread keeps going nowhere... I am just trying to hasten the process. If I get carved up in this process, so what? I'll be out on me bike.
> I do believe what I say, and my opinion is as valid as the next person's opinion.


If you have to troll a thread in attempt to shut it down I would think that you are trying to minimize others opinions.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

rockerc said:


> Heheh! By the same token as what Eckstream says, I could say the same thing about keeping gun talk out of an MTB forum. As for trolling, I totally realise that this thread keeps going nowhere... I am just trying to hasten the process. If I get carved up in this process, so what? I'll be out on me bike.
> I do believe what I say, and my opinion is as valid as the next person's opinion.


Yes... Your opinion is valid. I respect that.
However, the OP's question is a valid question too.
Your post did not add anything constructive or help in any way... And there are rules against that.

If you would like to start an anti gun thread in General Discussion I would fully support that. I would even stay out of it as I wouldn't have anything constructive to add.

Oh yeah... The OP's question does pertain to Mountain Biking. Therefore belongs on a MTB forum.

:thumbsup:


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

You know, I did post something constructive earlier on this thread, but this debate goes around and around for no reasonable outcome. I still believe guns and bikes are mutually exclusive. RIP.


----------



## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

*Not elegant*

While not elegant this rig proved its self in Iraq, took down the lead dog in a wild pack that was chasing me, one shot in the head, one in the shoulder and missed with another. Glad I was carrying. Been thinking about a Glock 27 for the Colorado back country, while not an effective Bear gun it's better than the little 2" blade on my bike tool for everything else, while being corrosion resistant and relatively maintenance free and not being cumbersome.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

rockerc said:


> Hm, so far in this thread I have only read 2 posts that give me any reason to say "Yeah, I get that"... Sheepo in the 'hood being more worried about pit bulls, altho I seriously doubt his or anyone's ability to be able to get a gun out and shoot it effectively before getting attacked; then the Boz carrying while fishing in bear country makes sense to me. As for everyone else being worried about snakes, mountain lion, pot growers(!), whatever else, your level of paranoia suggests that if any of these threats were to actually materialise, you would be waaay too excited to actually find/deploy/effectively use your manhood extension, sorry, gun.





rockerc said:


> I am glad you deployed the much more effective weapon of 'common sense' rather than coming out with all guns blazing.





rockerc said:


> Yup, I guess that just goes to show that it's all about penis extension!
> Seriously, what a bunch of paranoid, delusional, idiots. You've been playing too many shoot 'em up video games. You are all responsible for helping make your society and
> mine a more fearful place to live. It takes two to tango, and it's not just the misguided kid
> to blame, but everyone who only reaches out to them thru the barrel of a gun.
> ...





rockerc said:


> Knives out, this should be a carve up...





rockerc said:


> Heheh! By the same token as what Eckstream says, I could say the same thing about keeping gun talk out of an MTB forum. As for trolling, I totally realise that this thread keeps going nowhere... I am just trying to hasten the process. If I get carved up in this process, so what? I'll be out on me bike.
> I do believe what I say, and my opinion is as valid as the next person's opinion.





rockerc said:


> You know, I did post something constructive earlier on this thread, but this debate goes around and around for no reasonable outcome. I still believe guns and bikes are mutually exclusive. RIP.


So where in your posts did you actually recommend to the OP a good carry gun?


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Where do you guys ride in Harlem?
Where all the mountain lions and bears lurk


----------



## Guest (Jan 29, 2012)

Ill say it again- Go with a Smith and Wesson M&P .40 Compact. OR The glock 27. Easy to carry, and plenty of power to get you out of a real hairy situation.


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

I see Repack Rider reading this thread. Waiting for the pic of gary fisher...









Dude.. Panaracers and Rhyno Lites? Did you steal those off my old Homegrown?


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

So where do you guys ride in Harlem?
Where all the mountain lions and bears lurk.


----------



## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

I served in the Army. I did a lot of shooting then, and apparently I got it all out of my system.

I got out in 1968. In the last 44 years I haven't felt the desire to ever handle a weapon again, and no one has ever threatened me to a degree that I would have found one useful. No one I know or ever met has successfully defended themselves in a civilian setting with a firearm. I am aware that such events take place, but so rarely that they make the 11 o'clock news. Meanwhile, accidental shootings, murders and suicides are so common that they AREN'T news. People with firearms in the house are more likely, not less likely, to die at the wrong end of one. If someone is stalking you with intent to kill, they will get you, and having a pistol in your pocket won't stop them.

YMMV, but I'll take my chances without packing. (And don't call it a "gun." It is a weapon, a firearm, a sidearm, a pistol or a rifle.)


----------



## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

This is my rifle, this is my gun, this for fighting........

Repack has it correct, and the statistics about CWP bear that out. Besides, I've endo'd and crashed hard enough to break the leatherman I had on my waist- I can't imagine how it would feel landing on a pistol. If it's in your frame pack, it won't do you any good anyways. I do carry dog repellant for those times when they get frisky, and am considering getting mace for the seemingly increasing conflicts I've had while riding on the road.


----------



## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

double post


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

Repack Rider said:


> People with firearms in the house are more likely, not less likely, to die at the wrong end of one. If someone is stalking you with intent to kill, they will get you, and having a pistol in your pocket won't stop them.
> 
> YMMV, but I'll take my chances without packing. (And don't call it a "gun." It is a weapon, a firearm, a sidearm, a pistol or a rifle.)


Its a gun. You can give it a sub-name, but its a gun. when you buy it, your receipt says gun. Just like Bike.

Not to get into a pissing match about this but the "statistic" youre referencing here is based on a worldwide study about people who "own" guns. this includes military, police or other civic officers, and includes guerrillas in third world countries who are carrying an AK47 that they have no idea how to use. This is only singled out when reading liberal propaganda to just law abiding citizens with home defense guns. Just like a car or a bike, you should take responsibility in operating and storing your gun.
The notion that if someone is stalking you, then youre dead anyway is a sheep mentality.
If everyone assumed that everyone they encounter has a gun, people would be a lot more respectful and conscious of their behavior.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

who let the dogs out lyrics - YouTube


----------



## LONO100 (Jan 10, 2012)

whenever someone brings up the topic of guns, everyone's opinions come firing out with all the stereotypes and generalizations. and trust me gun guys, as annoyed you are by the anti-gun preaching which i understand, but believe me, all the stereotypes about "obama voters" and all the liberal generalizations is just as annoying to all the anti-gun guys. that being said, a 1911 would be a piece that i think might work what you say you need it for, but im not sure exactly how you would carry it on rides in a safe way that would be easily accessed and wouldnt be uncomfortable. imagine if you threw a piece in your camelpak and you actually did come across an animal you would need to fire a weapon at. imagine jumping off your bike, taking your pack off, getting the gun out and preparing it to fire. any animal that you would need a weapon for would probably have attack you. yes, i am an obama voter, and yes im a pro gun guy, so i guess i dont fit the stereotype. my suggestion would be to just avoid areas where you feel you might need to pack a weapon. just not worth having to bring a gun along while riding a bike.


----------



## simpterfex (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm gonna buy a Glock 29sf 10mm for riding because it packs a punch and is light. Listen to the new Fresh Air on npr about the story of Glock, there is less crime now after the assault weapons ban was lifted in 2004 than in the 90's after Clinton signed it in affect.


----------



## Haligan78 (Jun 13, 2011)

simpterfex said:


> I'm gonna buy a Glock 29sf 10mm for riding because it packs a punch and is light. Listen to the new Fresh Air on npr about the story of Glock, there is less crime now after the assault weapons ban was lifted in 2004 than in the 90's after Clinton signed it in affect.


That is exactly what I carry. Love my Glock 29sf. Goes bang every time I pull the trigger, more snort than a .45 and much much lighter than my .44 magnum. 
That Glock gets dragged up and down every mountain in the area while hiking, bounced around in my dusty old pickup, soaked with water mud and covered with dust on my dirt bike, ATV, and mountain bike rides. Don't matter if it's clean or dirty it fires EVERY time I pull the trigger. I have in the neighborhood of 7,000 rounds through it and the only time it has jammed was when I "limp wristed" it to prove to my father (1911 fanboy) that it was the only way I could get it to jam.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Haligan78 said:


> That is exactly what I carry. Love my Glock 29sf. Goes bang every time I pull the trigger, more snort than a .45 and much much lighter than my .44 magnum.
> That Glock gets dragged up and down every mountain in the area while hiking, bounced around in my dusty old pickup, soaked with water mud and covered with dust on my dirt bike, ATV, and mountain bike rides. Don't matter if it's clean or dirty it fires EVERY time I pull the trigger. I have in the neighborhood of 7,000 rounds through it and the only time it has jammed was when I "limp wristed" it to prove to my father (1911 fanboy) that it was the only way I could get it to jam.


The Glock is the best all around carry all weapon. Dependable,lightweight,small and weather proof. And I believe in the right to bear arms. Although I find it rather scary if everybody around you is packing. What are the chances of happening upon some nut job. You may end up on the wrong end of the gun Like I suspect this dude did while out hiking with his dogs. In this case I think we had two nutjobs in the woods that happened upon eachother. One was packing one walked out.
Hiker who shot man says he'd do it again


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

just quick skim but it looks like in 5 pages of posts, you were the only to bring up voting and Obama. LONO100


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Hiker who shot man says he'd do it again


I hope that the state does the right thing and overturns Fishs' conviction...
And compensates him for his time served...


----------



## bikesordeath (Sep 17, 2011)

I have 2 ccw's. A S&W Bodyguard .380 and a Glock 27. I agree that a ccw kept in a camelback probably isn't very useful. However, we live in a country that provides a way for those that chose to have the right to carry legally. So you can disagree with it all day long, but those that make that choice are doing so legally and I support their right to do so.

That being said, I would personally like to carry while riding and will follow this thread to learn more from those that do.


----------



## dm1333 (Jun 27, 2010)

> As for everyone else being worried about snakes, mountain lion, pot growers(!), whatever else, your level of paranoia suggests that if any of these threats were to actually materialise, you would be waaay too excited to actually find/deploy/effectively use your manhood extension, sorry, gun.


Because of the number of large outdoor grows, the mountain lions and packs of dogs roaming loose in the woods where I live carrying while outdoors is pretty common. I prefer a .357 snubbie with 158 gr softfpoints.


----------



## bikesordeath (Sep 17, 2011)

dm1333 said:


> Because of the number of large outdoor grows, the mountain lions and packs of dogs roaming loose in the woods where I live carrying while outdoors is pretty common. I prefer a .357 snubbie with 158 gr softfpoints.


Where/how do you carry?


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Haligan78 said:


> That is exactly what I carry. Love my Glock 29sf. Goes bang every time I pull the trigger, more snort than a .45 and much much lighter than my .44 magnum.
> That Glock gets dragged up and down every mountain in the area while hiking, bounced around in my dusty old pickup, soaked with water mud and covered with dust on my dirt bike, ATV, and mountain bike rides. Don't matter if it's clean or dirty it fires EVERY time I pull the trigger. I have in the neighborhood of 7,000 rounds through it and the only time it has jammed was when I "limp wristed" it to prove to my father (1911 fanboy) that it was the only way I could get it to jam.





Eckstream1 said:


> I hope that the state does the right thing and overturns Fishs' conviction...
> And compensates him for his time served...


I'm not so sure that would be the right thing. I saw a television special on this case. And they both came across as being "nutjobs". Hard telling what really happened out in the middle of nowhere. Only the survivor can tell the story on his behalf.


----------



## dm1333 (Jun 27, 2010)

Pistol Wear - Holsters for Concealed Handguns

I live in northern California. Dogs have been my biggest problem here so far, being chased by small groups that don't want to give up.


----------



## bikesordeath (Sep 17, 2011)

dm1333 said:


> Pistol Wear - Holsters for Concealed Handguns
> 
> I live in northern California. Dogs have been my biggest problem here so far, being chased by small groups that don't want to give up.


Those are pretty cool, thanks for sharing.


----------



## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

I conceal carry a loving heart and an appreciation for all of god's creatures.

(I also own guns)


----------



## LONO100 (Jan 10, 2012)

the_owl said:


> just quick skim but it looks like in 5 pages of posts, you were the only to bring up voting and Obama. LONO100


check page 1-2 smart guy. too many tough guys with guns walking around. thats coming from a guy who's pro gun. we bring my shotgun when we go into the woods, but i just dont see the sense in packing a gun when mountain biking.


----------



## Bike Doc (Oct 2, 2007)

*Why carry a gun...*



Dirty Bastard said:


> I am curious about long time carriers point of view on what gun is most appropriate to carry on a MTB ride.


Why carry a gun...

...when the gun(s)

(and swords AND grenades!)

can carry YOU!!!


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

LONO100 said:


> check page 1-2 smart guy. too many tough guys with guns walking around. thats coming from a guy who's pro gun. we bring my shotgun when we go into the woods, but i just dont see the sense in packing a gun when mountain biking.


Hey, youre right. someone mentioned the Obama voters getting all butthurt.
Heres some Rep. Smart Guy


----------



## BoomerBrian (Jun 27, 2011)

Can't believe how disrespectful some people are around here when others bring up guns. I ride alone most of the time and have considered carrying but in reality I don't think I could get to the gun in my backpack in time to protect myself. I will probably just carry some pepper spray. Mount it on the bike where it is accessible. The odds of something happening are slim but when you are in the woods you never know. I have yet to have an incident but that doesn't mean it can't happen.


----------



## Fresno (Jul 11, 2011)

Riding in the western Sierra area worry about mountain lions and rattlers. With caution, there is a very low chance of an encounter with a bear. But, riding alone, very rare, a gun is your only chance with a mountain lion.

The 44 is scandium and very light. It holds snake shot which is handy in rattler country.


----------



## armed1 (Jul 29, 2009)

Barrett 82A1


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 3, 2005)

My carry, guns. The LCP is lighter, and holds 2 more rounds, but the revolver is double action and hamerless, and the pin strikes a new round every time you pull the trigger. 
Toss up in my book.

Edited to add. Sorry. Wrong revolver pic

This is the hammerless


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Fresno said:


> It holds snake shot which is handy in rattler country.


Attack snakes! yeah, watch out for them! If you don't bug them, they won't bug you. Ridiculous!


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

rockerc said:


> Attack snakes! yeah, watch out for them! If you don't bug them, they won't bug you. Ridiculous!


Because it's so hard to ride around them.:thumbsup:
Hold on while I pull out the regular bullets and put some snake shot in.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Because it's so hard to ride around them.:thumbsup:
> Hold on while I pull out the regular bullets and put some snake shot in.


Maybe if a bear is sittin' on me chest, and the marauding mountain lion are egging on the snakes, I might need the pistol... Oh Sh*t, I can't reach it!


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

I do not mean to mock you Fresno, but really this is the kind of misinformed attitude that worries me. The idea that there is even any need to EVER shoot a snake is worrying. Only perhaps if you were that guy stuck in the slot canyon for 127 hours, but I doubt even then that any snake would attack you unless you fell on them. I meet rattlesnakes all the time in the desert, and they are just fine if you stay away from them, and that is not hard to do. 
Similarly, a mountain lion attack is so rare that it beggars belief anyone would seriously worry about it and take a gun on a ride. If you were that person in a million, I do not think a sidearm would serve any good at all unless you could move at the speed of Superman, in which case you are OK anyway. As for bears, I would say that spray serves a much more effective protection, and it would seem that the USFWS agrees:

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear spray.pdf

You could also mount the spray in a position so it could be more readily available than any sidearm. My view is also that if this works on bears, it has a pretty f**ing good chance of working on people too, should the need arise.
Why then, is there any need to carry a firearm on a ride?


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

rockerc said:


> I do not mean to mock you Fresno, but really this is the kind of misinformed attitude that worries me. The idea that there is even any need to EVER shoot a snake is worrying. Only perhaps if you were that guy stuck in the slot canyon for 127 hours, but I doubt even then that any snake would attack you unless you fell on them. I meet rattlesnakes all the time in the desert, and they are just fine if you stay away from them, and that is not hard to do.
> Similarly, a mountain lion attack is so rare that it beggars belief anyone would seriously worry about it and take a gun on a ride. If you were that person in a million, I do not think a sidearm would serve any good at all unless you could move at the speed of Superman, in which case you are OK anyway. As for bears, I would say that spray serves a much more effective protection, and it would seem that the USFWS agrees:
> 
> http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear spray.pdf
> ...


:thumbsup:
My thoughts exactly and I come from a hunting background. My dad was a huge hunter in Colorado and I grew up doing it and around it. As I got older I realized how really stupid it was and such a waste. We have grocery stores to buy meat. As far as protection on a ride I need not say more as RockerC covered my views to a T. And BTW the Rocker C is one of my favorite Harley's.:thumbsup:


----------



## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

I carry a short barrel .357...STAY OFF MY LINE!!! j/k


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

*All in on Red*

thats a pretty big gamble. Pepper spray. Because if it doesnt stop whatever is attacking you, your kids grow up without a daddy.
I think firearms will do a lot better job against the John McCluskey's and other people you may encounter out there.
You may never need, but just like the space blanket that been in my pack since 1992, if you ever do need it, you'll sure be glad.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I'm not so sure that would be the right thing. I saw a television special on this case. And they both came across as being "nutjobs". Hard telling what really happened out in the middle of nowhere. Only the survivor can tell the story on his behalf.


So a long time school teacher with a good standing reputation is a nutjob? 

I don't know what happened either... But seeing as how sooo much evidence was not allowed supporting Mr. Fish I don't believe he got a fair trial.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Eckstream1 said:


> So a long time school teacher with a good standing reputation is a nutjob?
> 
> I don't know what happened either... But seeing as how sooo much evidence was not allowed supporting Mr. Fish I don't believe he got a fair trial.


In a different county he would have likely never been prosecuted IMHO.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

rockerc said:


> You could also mount the spray in a position so it could be more readily available than any sidearm. My view is also that if this works on bears, it has a pretty f**ing good chance of working on people too, should the need arise.
> Why then, is there any need to carry a firearm on a ride?


When have you ever met a bear that was high on PCP?


----------



## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

*Mean world syndrome*


> ...a phenomenon whereby violence-related content of mass media makes viewers believe that the world is more dangerous than it actually is...
> 
> ...effects of television on society, argued that people who watched a large amount of television tended to think of the world as an intimidating and unforgiving place...
> 
> ...


go outside and ride your bikes....

jeebus.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

CHUM said:


> *Mean world syndrome*
> 
> go outside and ride your bikes....
> 
> jeebus.


Thank you!


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

CHUM said:


> *Mean world syndrome*
> 
> go outside and ride your bikes....
> 
> jeebus.


Woman jailed after home invasion in Reading

Shots fired during city home invasion

3 shot, 2 dead in Reading clash

Suspect accused of robbing man who lent him $40

I have no unreal view of reality... I dont need to see it on TV. I see it in real life... Everyday, outside, in my own front yard... :sad:


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

dchandle said:


> Jayem:
> I'm not sure any handgun is suitable against a lion, javelina, wild dogs, coyote. If the sound of a shot won't scare them off then nothing short of a shotgun would be suitable IMHO. I'm a proficient shot & I don't think I could engage an animal charging me with any handgun.
> The question, like always, is where are you traveling and will (forgive me for this) give you the most bang for the buck.
> 
> ...


357 Magnum 180 grain "super" hard cast flat nose (FN) lead alloy bullet with a full charge powder used with a calm and focus aim has a good chance to penetrate the skull of any mammal on North America.

We know the effective vs. bone with 44 RM 310 grain hard cast FN bullet, from Garrett Catridges, but such a revolver is much heavier than a 357, but will fit in a large camel pack

45 ACP has been proven in WWI trenches (an in the Philiphine "insurrection") vs "two legged" unlike either the 9 MM or the 40 S&W. In good hands, 45 ACPs have brought down an attacking bear in WY, saving two lives.

Not all BHO voters are hoplophobic (irrational fear of firearms), but many of urban coastal "liberals" or "progressive" do show such traits. There are Democrats that respect firearms owership.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Eckstream1 said:


> Woman jailed after home invasion in Reading
> 
> Shots fired during city home invasion
> 
> ...


People believe what they want to that brings comfort, not really interested seeking truths.
I believe in being happy and being prepared, but many people rely mostly on luck or on gov't agencies (police) to protect them from attacks.


----------



## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

rockerc said:


> I do not mean to mock you Fresno, but really this is the kind of misinformed attitude that worries me. The idea that there is even any need to EVER shoot a snake is worrying. Only perhaps if you were that guy stuck in the slot canyon for 127 hours, but I doubt even then that any snake would attack you unless you fell on them. I meet rattlesnakes all the time in the desert, and they are just fine if you stay away from them, and that is not hard to do.
> Similarly, a mountain lion attack is so rare that it beggars belief anyone would seriously worry about it and take a gun on a ride. If you were that person in a million, I do not think a sidearm would serve any good at all unless you could move at the speed of Superman, in which case you are OK anyway. As for bears, I would say that spray serves a much more effective protection, and it would seem that the USFWS agrees:
> 
> http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear spray.pdf
> ...


Pretty much sums up my view as it pertains to mountain biking, which after all, is what this forum is about. I own guns, grew up with guns, enjoy shooting guns. I just can't really conceive a logical scenario that I would encounter on any of my usual rides where a gun would come in handy -- how do the home invasion news stories above have anything to do with carrying guns while riding?

So what are these dangers, anyway? Rattlesnakes? Um, just ride around, toss a couple of rocks and wait for it to move (it will, trust me!) or get a long stick and prod it off the trail. Bears, mountain lions, packs of dogs? Never heard of a rider getting attacked on any of the normal trails I ride on. I'll roll the dice on those odds. People? Biggest concern, I suppose, but again, people aren't getting attacked on my trails, so not something I really worry about. Stopping someone in the act of breaking into my truck when I get back to the trailhead? Yeah, use a gun for that and see how it works out for you ... If I were going on a multi-day ride in distant stretches of forest. Yeah, I'd probably bring one along with me. But that isn't something I do a whole lot of.


----------



## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

Eckstream1 said:


> Woman jailed after home invasion in Reading
> 
> Shots fired during city home invasion
> 
> ...


i lived in a bad neighborhood too....highest murder rate in the nation 4 years in a row to be exact...

but what does home invasion and burglary have to do with riding a bike on dirt? am i missing something?


----------



## river_tool (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't carry while I'm riding -- it's just not necessary where I live. When whitewater boating my group occassionally does. I'd opt for a Ruger P97 polymer-frame .45 ACP. Lightwieght and enough stopping power.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

dsintov said:


> but how are you going to feel if after you shot the dog someone rides up and tells you that you just killed their pet and that the dog was in fact wagging its tail and wanted to play.or maybe a couger attacks and you shoot it dead and then you find out the couger had cub to feed.
> with bear spray you can make a mistake and not have to worry about any consequences.


I'm going to feel like I'm more important than the dog and I was actually able to do something about my own safety, thank you very much. Some of us can discern between a dog "wagging it's tail and wanting to play" or one baring it's teeth with it's ears cocked back and trying to attack. If you can't tell this, I sure hope you do not own a dog. I would personally rather not kill a mountain lion or cub, but here's the thing, old people around here that don't take their own personal safety into account when they go into wilderness have reported mountaion lions in nearby WILDERNESS areas. The forest service has then removed/killed said lion for simply doing what it's supposed to do. No one was attacked, the lion was just spotted by a few old people on a trail in wilderness. So because people can't take their own personal safety seriously (hey, what exactly does wilderness mean?) we have to ruin it for everyone.


----------



## Mojo Troll (Jun 3, 2004)

*I mean seriously......*

Seeing how we are on a mtn bike forum. What is the percentage of people that have actually had to brandish thier weapon while riding? Much less, fire it. The innocent snake, coyote, or sasquach you crossed paths with on the trail, does'nt count.

If you can afford a $4000 bike to ride through the ghetto to get to the trails. You can afford to relocate. Realign your priorities. It's that simple.

Do you really think you will be able to get a firearm out of your pack before a mtn lion attacks you? (If you answer yes to this. You should probobly stay indoors. Your fairly clueless of your surroundings).

How many people get attacked by black bears per year? Black bears are lazy. Looking for the easiest food source they can find. Go to Yosimite and see some well feed, over wieght , 550LB black bears. (A healthy black bear in a natural environment is about 250-300 LBS).

Grizzlies you say? How much fun would it be riding through the forrest with a big bore rifle strapped to your back? Good luck with that pee shooter in your back. Same goes for moose.

If children run across a snake in a heavily polulated camp ground. Calmly explain to the children the markings of a copperhead and to avoid it. Teach them to be aware of thier surroundings.Theres no need for a parent to come running over, barefooted, butt crack hanging half out of thier PJ's, half hung over, wielding a 9mm in the air. (most public campgrounds prohibit fire arms).

I'll be the first to stand up for 2nd Ammendment rights. However, at what point do people not take responsablity for thier own actions and surroundings? I mean seriously...


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

How many people out there have needed to be airlifted out while biking? show of hands..
How many carry a celphone just in case they do?



Mojo Troll said:


> Seeing how we are on a mtn bike forum. What is the percentage of people that have actually had to brandish thier weapon while riding? Much less, fire it. The innocent snake, coyote, or sasquach you crossed paths with on the trail, does'nt count.


----------



## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

the_owl said:


> How many people out there have needed to be airlifted out while biking? show of hands..
> How many carry a celphone just in case they do?


yes....but the chance of a catastrophic crash/injury is actually realistic compared to the off-chance of being robbed/raped/eaten while mountain biking...

by your logic it would be common sense to wear a bullet proof vest all day, every day....just in case a stray bullet 'gets' ya 

*this thread is actually kinda silly* :lol:

PS - i know a dude who required an airlift on a regular ride, got to see him carted out....and witnessed a couple more airlifts during races...


----------



## grampa_stang (Jul 10, 2011)

Don't let anybody on here tell you what you should or shouldn't do. Or why or why not to carry. ANYTHING can happen ANYTIME. This is America..if you have a CWP, It's your call. Do what makes you comfortable. There's nothing absurd about carrying...it's the drawing that you better have a darn good reason doing...

Like the saying goes...better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. It's as simple as that.

That being said. I bike alone sometimes and wish I had a good way to carry. Like others have said, camelbak is a no go. I could open carry...but if I crash on my weapon...ouch. The chest holster...nah, i go over the bars too much. A nice padded frame mount might not be a bad idea.


----------



## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

the_owl said:


> How many people out there have needed to be airlifted out while biking? show of hands..
> How many carry a celphone just in case they do?


How many people have ever even heard of a scenario where a person needed a gun on a mountain bike ride (not a guy on a city bike path -- I'm talking about out on a mountain trail)? I've heard of many people being significantly injured on a ride, and have come across one awaiting the helicopter before myself. Besides, most of us probably carry a cell phone for a number of reasons, calling a helicopter probably not even registering on the list.

I've heard of some people carrying on their mountain bikes. What I haven't heard is anyone saying they were either glad they had their gun, or wished they had their gun on a mountain bike ride (not saying it hasn't happened, I just haven't heard it). If anyone else has, I'd be interested to hear the story. No, shooting a rattlesnake on or near the trail does not count (I guess unless said snake had the person cornered or something!).


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

CHUM said:


> yes....but the chance of a catastrophic crash/injury is actually realistic compared to the off-chance of being robbed/raped/eaten while mountain biking...
> 
> by your logic it would be common sense to wear a bullet proof vest all day, every day....just in case a stray bullet 'gets' ya
> 
> ...


Like I said: All in on Red. If you need it and dont have it, youre ****ed. 
Im the opposite. in 25 years of mountain biking Ive never needed an airlift. But Ive had to brandish.
The wole "youre just paranoid" thing is only awkward until youre getting your ass kicked (quote taken from someone way more prepared than Ill ever be)


----------



## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

the_owl said:


> ..But Ive had to brandish...


you've actually brandished a firearm at someone while mountain biking?

do tell.

details please.


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

CHUM said:


> you've actually brandished a firearm at someone while mountain biking?
> 
> do tell.
> 
> details please.


Id rather not. Im not looking for attention. I really didnt want this thread to go in this direction.


----------



## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

the_owl said:


> Id rather not. Im not looking for attention. I really didnt want this thread to go in this direction.


If you truly didn't want attention or want the thread to go in this direction, you wouldn't have stated that you've "brandished" your firearm on a mountain bike trail.

So you've done enough to get the attention!  May as well tell the story to go with it.


----------



## Hutch3637 (Jul 1, 2011)

I'll keep this short maybe. As far as weapons to have or use while mountain biking, things you should take into consideration are, your area, time of how long you may be out, and most importantly situational awareness. Plan prior to something happening don't just react. As for the people discussing about spray's and how they work I figured I would post these pictures of before and after affects of the "devils piss." One thing to note about spray's if the attacker is within less then 36 inches you should go for the eyes with the product. Reason being this could cause the hydraulic needle effect which can literally cut the eye making them blind not to mention all the particles will go in this cut. As for which type to get foam is horrible the attacker can basically whip it off and throw it back at you, fog depending on the wind could blow back in your face, the best which I think is the stream which can reach out the farthest as well as hits the target in a stream. One word of caution though with sprays make sure if you get in a struggle and you get it in your eyes or on you, you know how to still fight with the pain. Sorry for the rant just thought I would bring this up as an alternative to just using a firearm. Reason I posted this is cause of the bringing up of "pepper spray" This is OC 2.2 and this stuff goes up to 6.0 I think still. At 2.2 your face will feel like it peeling off for the most part, could have breathing problems and at 6.0 for large animals IDK nor would I want to know the pain 6.0 OC brings.
Pics of myself, laugh it up too!


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

looks like youre still standing...


----------



## Hutch3637 (Jul 1, 2011)

the_owl said:


> looks like youre still standing...


"One word of caution though with sprays make sure if you get in a struggle and you get it in your eyes or on you, you know how to still fight with the pain.* AGAIN* Sorry for the rant just thought I would bring this up as an alternative to just using a firearm."

For most civilized people it drops them.


----------



## Badassbassangler (Jul 11, 2011)

Take a holster that's easy enough to get a needle through and sew a wide elastic velcro strap to it. Wrap it around your thigh. Now cut a hole on the inside of your cargo shorts for quick access through the pocket. I live in the east and don't worry about Mountain Lions...just irresponsible pet owners with large dogs that aren't on a leash.


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

Hutch3637;8958166
For most civilized people it drops them.[/QUOTE said:


> Add 2 parts adrenaline and a 3 day meth high... you HOPE it drops them.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Mojo Troll said:


> Seeing how we are on a mtn bike forum. What is the percentage of people that have actually had to brandish thier weapon while riding? Much less, fire it. The innocent snake, coyote, or sasquach you crossed paths with on the trail, does'nt count.
> 
> If you can afford a $4000 bike to ride through the ghetto to get to the trails. You can afford to relocate. Realign your priorities. It's that simple.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:

It's as if you telepathically zoned in on what I was going to type.


----------



## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

the_owl said:


> Id rather not. Im not looking for attention. I really didnt want this thread to go in this direction.


you opened it....


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

Maybe some wit and internet peer pressure will get me to do something I dont want to do...
After 5 pages of people trying to convince others that they dont need a gun ,I thought Id ring in. Especially since a few threads down is a fellow who did need one while riding a bike


----------



## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

the_owl said:


> Maybe some wit and internet peer pressure will get me to do something I dont want to do...
> After 5 pages of people trying to convince others that they dont need a gun ,I thought Id ring in. Especially since a few threads down is a fellow who did need one while riding a bike


quit dodging and fess up...ya big goof

are you full a crap or legit?


----------



## Will Goes Boing (Jan 25, 2008)

Duct tape a holster onto the head tube. Boo yah!


----------



## AndyN (Jan 12, 2004)

CHUM said:


> quit dodging and fess up...ya big goof
> 
> are you full a crap or legit?


As an MTBer in the poster's home state, I agree. Disclosure please.

Who'd you pull on, and why?

PSA pending, maybe I should start carrying on rides.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

I can't even believe you guys are discussing about firearms to carry along your ride...

Anyways.


----------



## ubd1977 (Jan 19, 2009)

Seecamp 380


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Heheheh!


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

rockerc said:


> Heheheh!


Heheheh what?


----------



## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

.22 Beretta Auto. Real small frame but only holds about 6 rounds.


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

I would prefer something cheap. Thats why I dig the keltec lineup. When it starts to rust from all the sweat you wont get upset! I personally like wheel guns a lot but there is a weight and size penalty with most. 

S&Ws 360pd and 340pd are nice and light but the cylinder is still just under 2 inches which is chubby compared to todays semis.

They are also expensive and I wouldnt want to beat it up too much(or sweat on it)

Cylinder and frame wont rust but the internals are most definitely steel. 

Something can be said for the p3AT

Loaded weight is about 11oz
Width is 20 mm
6+1 of .380 Auto is enough for most situations 
$250
Made in Florida!


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

If the keltecs didnt stove pipe so much..


----------



## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

Sheepo5669 said:


> I would prefer something cheap. Thats why I dig the keltec lineup. When it starts to rust from all the sweat you wont get upset! I personally like wheel guns a lot but there is a weight and size penalty with most.
> 
> S&Ws 360pd and 340pd are nice and light but the cylinder is still just under 2 inches which is chubby compared to todays semis.
> 
> ...


I carry a stainless steel gun. Still, with all the potential for moisture (sweat and rain) I figure it's probably a good idea to clean and lube it on a regular basis.


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

That is a very legitimate concern. I have never owned one so I cant speak from experience, but people I talk to say you need to "break them in" with a couple hundred rounds before they become reliable.

My riding buddy carries a p-11 on a regular basis and he claims it is 100% reliable. It is also older and well broken in.

I guess after you factor in the price of the handgun + 5 boxes of ammo, you arent getting that great of a deal anyway! But something can still be said for their width and weight for riding carry.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

SuperSlow35th said:


> Not to start a fight, and forgive my ignorance if this has been battered to death....but.....
> 
> I take it the idea of carrying on the trail is frowned upon around here? Ive been debating it since 4 or 5 bodies have been found near our local trails.


Are the murderers, robbers n rapists the ones frowning on those who carry?

To the op lots of good choices for a firearm I hav found the bersa .380 to b a good pistol


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Mojo Troll said:


> Seeing how we are on a mtn bike forum. What is the percentage of people that have actually had to brandish thier weapon while riding? Much less, fire it. The innocent snake, coyote, or sasquach you crossed paths with on the trail, does'nt count.


 So If you have never needed to wear a seatbelt you should not wear one? I mean a seatbelt does not protect you from every kind of accident, yet I am sure you would not mock somene for wearing one.


> If you can afford a $4000 bike to ride through the ghetto to get to the trails. You can afford to relocate. Realign your priorities. It's that simple.


 I dono IM fairly certain very few people on this forum, if anyone can afford to relocate in Brad Pitts Neighborhood CNN.com - Transcripts
I mean I just wrote a check for 24k truck and I certainly cannot afford to live in the mythological safety zone you so speak of, which as we know from the above article realy doesn not exist. 
Of course people alone are those who are usually assaulted, Missing jogger found murdered - News14.com



> Do you really think you will be able to get a firearm out of your pack before a mtn lion attacks you? (If you answer yes to this. You should probobly stay indoors. Your fairly clueless of your surroundings).


 Maybe, maybe not depends on the access and the situation, however two legged animals are a real threat and should be considerd and yes, I agree, if you carry a firearm it should be readily accessable. 


> How many people get attacked by black bears per year? Black bears are lazy. Looking for the easiest food source they can find. Go to Yosimite and see some well feed, over wieght , 550LB black bears. (A healthy black bear in a natural environment is about 250-300 LBS).


 While the number is very smal it does happen, IM sure one of the poor saps who felt their bones crunching in the jaws of a bear were wishing they had the chance to defend themselves. 


> Grizzlies you say? How much fun would it be riding through the forrest with a big bore rifle strapped to your back? Good luck with that pee shooter in your back. Same goes for moose.


 Uhmmm while again unlikely people can have have shot and killed both with a Pistol, however the OP stated directly he was not interested in a weapon for bears so this makes your argument irrelevent. 


> If children run across a snake in a heavily polulated camp ground. Calmly explain to the children the markings of a copperhead and to avoid it. Teach them to be aware of thier surroundings.


 Absolutely I agree it is far better to leave it for someone else to deal with.



> Theres no need for a parent to come running over, barefooted, butt crack hanging half out of thier PJ's, half hung over, wielding a 9mm in the air.


(most public campgrounds prohibit fire arms).[/quote] no most public campgrounds prohibit the use of firearms in a campground not the possesion. OF course I am assuming since I am one of those camp in the middle of nowhere types  
Wait no apparently you can in a national park anyhow Guns in National Parks: Firearms Now Allowed in Yellowstone, Yosemite, and 370 Other Parks - ABC News


> I'll be the first to stand up for 2nd Ammendment rights. However, at what point do people not take responsablity for thier own actions and surroundings? I mean seriously...


 Apparently you are one of the last to actualy stand up for 2nd amendment rights, at least be man enough to flat out admit it rather than posting against it then claiming you support it, how absured. The real Irony here is you probably support the TSA 

People should take steps to protect themselves, be it a firearm, club, pepper spray, taser, sword or knife, whatever makes them feel safe and whatever gives them an edge on the badguy. They should however take a course and learn to properly use said weapon.
The reality is we probably wil not ever have to use it, and let us hope nobody on this forum will, however just as with safety gear should someone need it I hope they come out on top.


----------



## db09jku (Jan 2, 2012)

In the local trails, that start a quarter mile from my house, I can't, the whole park thing and local laws, bastards. If out in more isolated areas, this is something I will need to consider. I have a Maxpedition backpack, heavy, but more durable than all non-tactical oriented packs, has a built in conceal compartment, camelback compartment etc. that I can carry my XD in. Fortunately, the only animals in my immediate area are small game which pose no threat, other than skunks, coyotes, and deer. No mountain lions or bears. The biggest danger down here in the south are the 2 legged animals. Tweekers. There is a spot on one trail, where there are signs of folks living out there. Never seen anyone yet.

Oh, for the anti's that make the argument about would you ever really need one and have you used one, I have a question: 

Do you have life insurance? Ever used it?


----------



## db09jku (Jan 2, 2012)

Hutch3637 said:


> I'll keep this short maybe. As far as weapons to have or use while mountain biking, things you should take into consideration are, your area, time of how long you may be out, and most importantly situational awareness. Plan prior to something happening don't just react. As for the people discussing about spray's and how they work I figured I would post these pictures of before and after affects of the "devils piss." One thing to note about spray's if the attacker is within less then 36 inches you should go for the eyes with the product. Reason being this could cause the hydraulic needle effect which can literally cut the eye making them blind not to mention all the particles will go in this cut. As for which type to get foam is horrible the attacker can basically whip it off and throw it back at you, fog depending on the wind could blow back in your face, the best which I think is the stream which can reach out the farthest as well as hits the target in a stream. One word of caution though with sprays make sure if you get in a struggle and you get it in your eyes or on you, you know how to still fight with the pain. Sorry for the rant just thought I would bring this up as an alternative to just using a firearm. Reason I posted this is cause of the bringing up of "pepper spray" This is OC 2.2 and this stuff goes up to 6.0 I think still. At 2.2 your face will feel like it peeling off for the most part, could have breathing problems and at 6.0 for large animals IDK nor would I want to know the pain 6.0 OC brings.
> Pics of myself, laugh it up too!


Man, never got sprayed directly like that, we did have a OC house at Ft. Knox and container type trailer at my National Guard unit. My eyes are open, my arms or flappin. Good stuff that will clear out your sinuses though!


----------



## db09jku (Jan 2, 2012)

One last thought, maybe. For those that are against, fine, it's your prerogative, your choice, I'm fine with it. Regarding those that do, good, it's your prerogative, your choice, as long as it is legal in your area, I'm fine with that. I carry everyday, all day long, have for years, legally, with my permit. I don't carry into places that I am legally forbidden. 

I respect your right and decision not to carry a firearm, I'm completely 100% ok with that. Respect mine and those that do chose to carry while riding or doing anything else.

The U.S. is slowly getting stripped of our rights. The more we allow our rights to be taken away, for whatever reason, "national security", statistical data, for the children, whatever, the worse its going to get. One day we will wake up and say WTF happened, we are no longer the "Land of the Free", we are living in a nanny state. I prefer living in the "Land of the Free".


----------



## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

db09jku said:


> Oh, for the anti's that make the argument about would you ever really need one and have you used one, I have a question:
> 
> Do you have life insurance? Ever used it?


Geez, how badly can you miss a point? I hope you are a lot more accurate with your firearm! 

I've not read anyone challenging the right to bear arms, the legitimacy of the 2nd amendment rights, or anything of the sort. Some of us are just repeatedly asking, why do you feel the need to carry a gun on mtb trails? Are you aware of people having been harmed on mtb trails you regularly ride, or other scenarios with which people have been faced that make you think, yep, I better bring along my sidearm? That's all some of us are asking -- "should you" instead of "can you." Honestly, I'm not condemning -- I'm curious. Why do you feel the need?

Presumably, one would derive the need to bring along a piece of equipment based on an anticipated need to use said equipment. I have a gun in my house. I don't bring it along with my on my bike because I can't really fathom a realistic situation (which is supported by any statistic or prior experience, by myself or someone else, and not just my wildest imaginations) where I might want it. Just like I don't bring, oh, I don't know, my can opener with me. I just can't imagine a possible realistic scenario where I would need a can opener, so I leave it at home. Does that mean the can opener is useless, a senseless item to own, or that no one needs one? Does that mean I oppose people using them? Or their right to bring them biking if they wish? No, I just can't perceive the need for one on a bike ride in the mountains.

Citing to people getting robbed in houses does not support the argument that a gun is a good thing to have on an MTB ride. I keep a gun in my house because, while I've never been the victim of a robbery, I know that it does happen to people. I don't, but have considered, carrying a gun on my commute where I sometimes ride 6 miles of MUT in the dark, as I have heard of people getting mugged there. I have carried a gun backpacking. Likewise when I camp in the middle of the west desert with my family in the travel trailer, I always bring the handgun and store it safely. I know people, or have heard credible stories and experiences from people, who have either been glad they had a gun or wish they had one in each of the above scenarios, even though nothing has ever happened to me. So I bring one along. I still don't know, or have I heard a story about someone who wished they had a gun on a mtb ride on the trails or areas in which I ride. As far as I can tell, neither has anyone else here.

And yes, I'm quite sure I'll use my life insurance at some point, as I haven't found the Holy Grail yet. If I do, I'll discontinue my policy!


----------



## db09jku (Jan 2, 2012)

Tystevens said:


> Geez, how badly can you miss a point? I hope you are a lot more accurate with your firearm!
> 
> I've not read anyone challenging the right to bear arms, the legitimacy of the 2nd amendment rights, or anything of the sort. Some of us are just repeatedly asking, why do you feel the need to carry a gun on mtb trails? Are you aware of people having been harmed on mtb trails you regularly ride, or other scenarios with which people have been faced that make you think, yep, I better bring along my sidearm? That's all some of us are asking -- "should you" instead of "can you." Honestly, I'm not condemning -- I'm curious. Why do you feel the need?
> 
> ...


It was a general comment for anti's. Your argument is the same as the anti-gun crowd, "Tell me when you have ever had to use it?" "Oh, don't have a specific event?" "Then why do you need it". If you don't come up with a specific event that personally happened to you, your argument for is void in their eyes.

The purpose of my comments are really summed up with this statement: If you want to carry and legally can, do it. If you don't think it necessary, then don't.

Oh, and my aim is quite good.


----------



## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

db09jku said:


> ...The purpose of my comments are really summed up with this statement: *If you want to carry and legally can, do it. If you don't think it necessary, then don't*...


agreed....

even though i think carrying* while MTB'ing is silly....your statement is difficult to argue :thumbsup:

* carrying while bikecamping might make sense in some scenarios


----------



## 262741 (Jun 11, 2005)

If I carried a weapon I am almost certain it would end up being used against me. That, and being ok with becoming a statistic are the reasons I don't own or carry. I do think it is just fine if people choose to carry, although I appreciate it if they tell me in advance so I don't piss them off


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Sheepo5669 said:


> I would prefer something cheap. Thats why I dig the keltec lineup. When it starts to rust from all the sweat you wont get upset! I personally like wheel guns a lot but there is a weight and size penalty with most.
> 
> S&Ws 360pd and 340pd are nice and light but the cylinder is still just under 2 inches which is chubby compared to todays semis.
> 
> ...


Maybe, but the action of a revolver is usually more accurate than a semi-auto, not to mention the kel-tec is an undersized pea-shooter for most any situation that does not involve humans, and if your situation does involve humans, in the wilderness I'd imagine that it is going to involve a distance where the kel-tec is completely innapropriate.

Would it be good to carry in the city, in buildings, in your car, etc? Sure.

Usefull in the wilderness? No, you're simply in denial about how animal physiology works and the limitations of your gun. It's like saying you're going to ride your cylcocross bike at Northstar for their downhill runs. Do you carry a bunch of tools that don't fit anything on your bike as well? Kel-tec makes some cool stuff, but that isn't a good choice.


----------



## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

db09jku said:


> It was a general comment for anti's. Your argument is the same as the anti-gun crowd, "Tell me when you have ever had to use it?" "Oh, don't have a specific event?" "Then why do you need it". If you don't come up with a specific event that personally happened to you, your argument for is void in their eyes.
> 
> The purpose of my comments are really summed up with this statement: If you want to carry and legally can, do it. If you don't think it necessary, then don't.
> 
> Oh, and my aim is quite good.


Still missing the point. I didn't ask whether YOU have had to use a gun -- I was asking why you felt the need to carry one.

I have tools in my pack that I've never used, eg, a chain tool. Honestly, I've never had a chain break, never had a chain issue in the 15 odd years I've been riding, never even had anyone in my group break a chain. I'm not sure I even would know what to do with the tool if I needed it. But I've been on forums like this where people have commented that circumstances arose where they were either forunate to have a chain tool or wished they had one. So I figured better safe than sorry. So if you asked me "why do you carry a chain tool in your pack," I'd tell you that I've been made aware of situations in which it has become important to have one on the trail. Not in my house. Not in my truck. But on the trail. You could then make a judgment call as to whether it was something you also might want to carry or whether you didn't see the need. Hopefully, we're either better prepared mountain bikers as a result, or else not carrying around things we don't need.

See, what you're missing is that this is an opportunity to educate, inform, help others see your point of view. I'm not debating whether you "can" carry a gun on the bike; much like my chain tool, I'm wondering if bringing a gun is something I might want to consider doing as well. What is there about carrying a gun on a mtb that I'm missing? I didn't know I needed a chain tool until someone educated me. Give me the chance to see your point of view. Telling me that "I do it because I can" doesn't really help. Neither does throwing out labels like 'antis.'

So my question for those carrying a gun on the trail is, again, why? Is it just because it's your Constitutional right? Is it because you've heard of people injured by animals or assailants on your local trails? Is it because you're just used to carrying it and can't imagine doing without it?


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Maybe, but the action of a revolver is usually more accurate than a semi-auto, not to mention the kel-tec is an undersized pea-shooter for most any situation that does not involve humans, and if your situation does involve humans, in the wilderness I'd imagine that it is going to involve a distance where the kel-tec is completely innapropriate.
> 
> Would it be good to carry in the city, in buildings, in your car, etc? Sure.
> 
> Usefull in the wilderness? No, you're simply in denial about how animal physiology works and the limitations of your gun. It's like saying you're going to ride your cylcocross bike at Northstar for their downhill runs. Do you carry a bunch of tools that don't fit anything on your bike as well? Kel-tec makes some cool stuff, but that isn't a good choice.


A revolver more accurate for what exactly? Any decent upper brand semi auo pistol will be capable of three inch groups at 25 yards, far exceeding the capabilities of almost anyone. The kel tec is a get u ass out of a situation weapon, for this it will be just fine especially against a human, dog or even say a cougar. 
Animals are very easy, they 99 percent of the time do not want to mess with u anymore than u do them. I carry sometimes but mainly for a human threat as well as wild dogs. What I carry or how is a silly debate that needs to end.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Deleted


----------



## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

Blurr said:


> I got news for ya we lost our freedom years ago, the passing of the patriot act really put a nail in things the passing of the defence authorization act was the concrete around the coffin. m.guardian.co.uk


i'd be careful about bringing politics into this thread if y'all want to keep it open...

so far it's been pretty civil/informative for a 'hot' button topic


----------



## db09jku (Jan 2, 2012)

Tystevens said:


> Still missing the point. I didn't ask whether YOU have had to use a gun -- I was asking why you felt the need to carry one.
> 
> I have tools in my pack that I've never used, eg, a chain tool. Honestly, I've never had a chain break, never had a chain issue in the 15 odd years I've been riding, never even had anyone in my group break a chain. I'm not sure I even would know what to do with the tool if I needed it. But I've been on forums like this where people have commented that circumstances arose where they were either forunate to have a chain tool or wished they had one. So I figured better safe than sorry. So if you asked me "why do you carry a chain tool in your pack," I'd tell you that I've been made aware of situations in which it has become important to have one on the trail. Not in my house. Not in my truck. But on the trail. You could then make a judgment call as to whether it was something you also might want to carry or whether you didn't see the need. Hopefully, we're either better prepared mountain bikers as a result, or else not carrying around things we don't need.
> 
> ...


Anti gun, pro gun, common terms generally used in these discussions.

2 men dumped a body on a trail I run frequently last week.
Murdered man's body found in Shelby Farms - Action News 5 - Memphis, Tennessee

Another one last week that deals with a Mountain biker
Victim kills teen robber on trail, police say

Oh and Let me google that for you

I don't carry while riding or running, again, most of where I go is in a city/county park, it's a no, no. If I were in the backcountry, and would be out for days, camping as you mentioned, I would bring what ever needed for protection in case a SHTF scenario arises. If camping in a populated/poplar area I would be worried more about drunks in the middle of the night.

I have come across homeless/tent city, encampments while out in the woods. There are several in the area under bridges and overpasses and in local woods. There is a huge meth issue down here in the south.

A gun is an additional tool, like the chain tool you mentioned, hopefully you and most will never have to use one, hopefully most will not have to use a gun. It is a low probability that one would need it, but it's there.

Oh, I have homeowners insurance and car insurance and haven't used either one of them. I also carry a fire extinguisher in my Jeep. 

So, 
Constitutionally I can,
I can according to the education, background checks of the State that I live in unless prohibited by law, which the area I ride/run most does
An incident on a trail I am on a lot
An incident on a trail with a biker and some thugs
Tweakers that are known to be in our area
Homeless/mentally unstable folks living in the woods and tent city's in my city that are connected to the trail system I ride on
It's a tool, that I hope not to use, like a chain tool, but would rather have, than not have just in case something happens.
If I lived in areas were mountain lions/bears lived, I might, but from what I understand, the bear sprays are more effective. I don't, so I haven't done any research.


----------



## tabletop84 (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm from yrop and what is this???


----------



## db09jku (Jan 2, 2012)

Blurr said:


> I got news for ya we lost our freedom years ago, the passing of the patriot act really put a nail in things the passing of the defence authorization act was the concrete around the coffin. m.guardian.co.uk





CHUM said:


> i'd be careful about bringing politics into this thread if y'all want to keep it open...
> 
> so far it's been pretty civil/informative for a 'hot' button topic


Yep, trying to stay away from that one, but got close with those comments


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

CHUM said:


> i'd be careful about bringing politics into this thread if y'all want to keep it open...
> 
> so far it's been pretty civil/informative for a 'hot' button topic


Sure thing


----------



## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

If you ever need a good reason to carry a gun, watch the show "I Survived" on the BIO channel. After watching a season's worth of episodes you will never be without one by your side. 

I personally keep a waterproof pistol in my shower right next to the body soap. I always feel like, somebody's watching me...and I got no privacy. Oh wait...I think that's a song.


----------



## dm1333 (Jun 27, 2010)

> Some of us are just repeatedly asking, why do you feel the need to carry a gun on mtb trails? *Are you aware of people having been harmed on mtb trails you regularly ride, or other scenarios with which people have been faced that make you think, yep, I better bring along my sidearm? *That's all some of us are asking -- "should you" instead of "can you." Honestly, I'm not condemning -- I'm curious. Why do you feel the need?


Matt Coleman, Jere Melo.

edit: pretty sure I spelled Jere's last name wrong so I changed it to one L.


----------



## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

Tystevens said:


> Still missing the point. I didn't ask whether YOU have had to use a gun -- I was asking why you felt the need to carry one.
> 
> I have tools in my pack that I've never used, eg, a chain tool. Honestly, I've never had a chain break, never had a chain issue in the 15 odd years I've been riding, never even had anyone in my group break a chain. I'm not sure I even would know what to do with the tool if I needed it. But I've been on forums like this where people have commented that circumstances arose where they were either forunate to have a chain tool or wished they had one. So I figured better safe than sorry. So if you asked me "why do you carry a chain tool in your pack," I'd tell you that I've been made aware of situations in which it has become important to have one on the trail. Not in my house. Not in my truck. But on the trail. You could then make a judgment call as to whether it was something you also might want to carry or whether you didn't see the need. Hopefully, we're either better prepared mountain bikers as a result, or else not carrying around things we don't need.
> 
> ...


This is a loaded question...pun intended.

Why do I carry a gun on the trails or anywhere else for that matter...Where do I start to answer that?

I personally carry because you just never know. If I'm riding at night with the family then I want to be prepared to defend us if necessary. To be honest, we've never even encountered a situation that would warrant that type of thinking but still, I want to be prepared.

Many of my friends and family have permits and carry and there's one common fact. It becomes second nature after a while like wearing a watch. I have a holster in the small of my back and my shirt tucks over it. I go all day wearing it and when I get home I take it out, place it in my top drawer and do it all over again the next day.

I hope I never have to shoot someone and if I go the rest of my life and never have to draw my gun then I will have considered it like insurance. Money well spent just in case I needed it.

Other than that if you don't feel the need to carry or own a gun then I can't convince you on why you would need one.


----------



## Dirty Bastard (Jan 23, 2008)

Thank you all for all your helpfull replies. Thank you everyone who didnt follow my OP rules as I knew you wouldn't please feel trolled, the rambling I did read was comical. The REAL advice I got was great though the rest... rofl. Next time I want to get people posting im gonna include the word gun in every thread just cause : D 
'


----------



## dchandle (Jan 11, 2012)

Crap... and I just thought I had some helpful advice... Well played. 
In case anyone does want to carry while riding....
I've been thinking about this for the past few days & I think I'm prepared to make a suggestion of using a hammerless revolver in an OWB (with retention strap) worn at 2' or 11' (depending on if you are right/left handed or want a crossdraw setup.) I believe this will give you the safest rig (no mag release/zero chance of an accidental discharge upon impact), minimizes chance of injury if you fall on it, while also providing a reasonable response time if you need to draw.
I'm going to stick with my original conclusion of NOT carrying while mountain biking (simply not for me), but instead carrying primarily on trails/roads.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Dirty Bastard said:


> Thank you all for all your helpfull replies. Thank you everyone who didnt follow my OP rules as I knew you wouldn't please feel trolled, the rambling I did read was comical. The REAL advice I got was great though the rest... rofl. Next time I want to get people posting im gonna include the word gun in every thread just cause : D
> '


This is a very important topic that is nothing to joke about.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Blurr said:


> A revolver more accurate for what exactly? Any decent upper brand semi auo pistol will be capable of three inch groups at 25 yards, far exceeding the capabilities of almost anyone. The kel tec is a get u ass out of a situation weapon, for this it will be just fine especially against a human, dog or even say a cougar.
> Animals are very easy, they 99 percent of the time do not want to mess with u anymore than u do them. I carry sometimes but mainly for a human threat as well as wild dogs. What I carry or how is a silly debate that needs to end.


Kel tec 380 against a couger? That's insane.


----------



## Will Goes Boing (Jan 25, 2008)

In all seriousness, I think a lot of you guys are over thinking this whole thing. If you don't want to carry while riding, don't. If you do insist on it, IMO the best type of gun would be something like a ruger LCP with a pocket holster. 

The only thing I find comical about this whole topic is that the sport itself is pretty damn risky IMO. I think it's more likely one would crash and break his/her neck than getting attacked by a mountain lion or robber. 

If you want to carry a full sized pistol for whatever reason, bike cops ride around all day with a sam brown on their waist without any issues. It's not rocket science, just wear an OWB holster on your 3 o'clock and wear an extra long t shirt to cover it up. But as I said, your best bet is a small pistol that will fit into your pocket comfortably.


----------



## Will Goes Boing (Jan 25, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Kel tec 380 against a couger? That's insane.


I think he meant the human "cougars".


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Tystevens said:


> Geez, how badly can you miss a point? I hope you are a lot more accurate with your firearm!
> 
> I've not read anyone challenging the right to bear arms, the legitimacy of the 2nd amendment rights, or anything of the sort. Some of us are just repeatedly asking, why do you feel the need to carry a gun on mtb trails? Are you aware of people having been harmed on mtb trails you regularly ride, or other scenarios with which people have been faced that make you think, yep, I better bring along my sidearm? That's all some of us are asking -- "should you" instead of "can you." Honestly, I'm not condemning -- I'm curious. Why do you feel the need?
> 
> ...


Yes... I have a valid reason to carry.
I have posted this a million times in defense of my need to carry...
I live less than two miles from this trail... Use it to commute... And pass the very spot this happened on a weekly basis.

So... Have at it.

Victim kills teen robber on trail, police say
Victim kills teen robber on trail, police say


----------



## Estral (Sep 24, 2007)

Ahhh, America! All the `freedom` in the world can`t save you from being paranoid on a bike ride.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Kel tec 380 against a couger? That's insane.


 A .22 is one caliber used to dump them when they are treed.

I: used to have one follow me on my trap line,,never saw it, but it s tracks would be in mine, fairly creepy but he left the traps alone so what the hell, not something I personally worry about


----------



## swingset (Oct 14, 2010)

Estral said:


> Ahhh, America! All the `freedom` in the world can`t save you from being paranoid on a bike ride.


Don't confuse prepared with paranoid. I carry first aid stuff, but I'm not paranoid about hurting myself, I have a fire extinguisher, but I'm not paranoid about fires. Did you know that you're more likely to be a victim of violent crime than a home fire? Do now.

Not paranoid, prepared. I just know that **** happens. Pretending it won't isn't preparedness, or will not act as a shield when someone does decide to make you a victim. I would rather exercise my freedom to carry the tools of dire extremes than face them defenseless.

Can you fight off a 200lb male half your age and with 40lbs on you? I can't. Wouldn't want to try.

I know, for a fact that criminals have chosen to target people in remote areas and in metro parks which is where I ride, and my bike isn't a forcefield. Cops aren't standing there ensuring my safety either.

Lastly, my first duty as a husband and father is to be come home every day, and keep my wife and girl safe when we ride together. If that means I have to endure the scorn of someone like you for taking that role very serious, well I guess I can shoulder it.

Anything else brilliant you have to add?


----------



## brparts (Dec 24, 2007)

will these do?


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

I see why these threads get deleted. Its hard not to get political, even if you dont mention names or platforms. Because it taps at the core of your beliefs.
As one of our Presidential hopefuls says: "I dont go to church or believe in god, but Ill defend YOUR constitutonal right to do it". Its great that we still have these rights and as citizens get to make the choice


----------



## photonicgirl (Jun 22, 2006)

I have a Colt 22 Mag revolver, not too suited for on bike carry. That's why I carry a pepper spray pistol. The hubby has a mini 9mm, it's very small and lightweight. If you have a CamelBak or that type pack it would probably work pretty well as long as you can quickly access it. 

Jules


----------



## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

99mikegt said:


> then the angry obama votes come out and attack.


I just don't get how voting for Obama would have any point to debating gun carry rights, since if you believe the whole "well he depended on the minority black/hispanic vote to win" crap, then those are the people that most white conservatives hold up as examples of people who are responsible for most gun crimes and thus MUST want to own a lot of guns. In any case, Obama (contrary to the rhetoric of the republican primaries) hasn't actually ever even mentioned anything to do with gun control or proposed any new firearms laws in his whole time in office.



> Carry a small lightwieght polymer automatic. Something like a 40 or 45 with a double stack magazine that can hold at least 10 rds.Think about animals and stopping power of your ammunition. Hollow point is always a plus when you link about a charging animal.


Home-defence loads and other "safety" types that expand/transfer energy quickly would also be a good choice because if you should miss, and hit a tree branch or something instead, there's less risk of it going past that tree and hitting someone a hundred feet away you weren't intending to hit.


----------



## nine-seven (Mar 2, 2010)

*well said!*



swingset said:


> Don't confuse prepared with paranoid. I carry first aid stuff, but I'm not paranoid about hurting myself, I have a fire extinguisher, but I'm not paranoid about fires. Did you know that you're more likely to be a victim of violent crime than a home fire? Do now.
> 
> Not paranoid, prepared. I just know that **** happens. Pretending it won't isn't preparedness, or will not act as a shield when someone does decide to make you a victim. I would rather exercise my freedom to carry the tools of dire extremes than face them defenseless.
> 
> ...


Nice! That could not have been better put. Anyone who disagrees with this lives in fantasyland. But maybe it''s just my boy scout training coming through... Be Prepared!


----------



## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Jayem said:


> IRiflle rounds introduce a "shock wave" that tears apart innards and causes massive blood pressure loss (if a vital organ is not hit directly).


That's because of the projectile velocity, so I ask... why not carry the FN Five-Seven pistol? They do offer loads for the caliber that are perfectly normal-person legal and it is legal in most states to own it. Lower recoil than the 9mm and much higher velocity and penetration. It also yaws pretty quick in flesh and meat tissue so you get a good sized wound cavity.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DeeEight said:


> That's because of the projectile velocity, so I ask... why not carry the FN Five-Seven pistol? They do offer loads for the caliber that are perfectly normal-person legal and it is legal in most states to own it. Lower recoil than the 9mm and much higher velocity and penetration. It also yaws pretty quick in flesh and meat tissue so you get a good sized wound cavity.


Round is too light, the best use for the 5.7 is as an armor penetrator with an AP round, then it does things that others wont. Think about bad guy with lots of clothing, maybe a little body armor, maybe a decent distance away, the 5.7 will penetrate and get the guy much better than a handgun. Think the LA shootout, if the cops had 5.7s, there probably wouldn't have been a need for the cops to go buy M16s, even if it took more than a few 5.7 rounds. Not bad, but its still kind of "in between", a magnum round in a handgun would still be my first choice. You are limited to about 1800-1900fps with the 5.7 in the short barrel 57, but it's still a relatively large and bulky full-sized auto. Compare to about 1200-1500 with a MUCH heavier round for the .357. I have an AR that obviously shoots around 2800-3100 with a heavier round, that's a lot better at that rifle-type wound channel, but realize that even that is more orientated towards human targets, something like a winchester mag rifle round would be much better suited for animals, and therein lies the problem. You have to get to some pretty high FPS where you get reliable wound channels and if that lightweight round hits something hard like a bone, it can fragment too easy and not penetrate. Magnum handgun rounds are the best "handgun" solution, just go look at what backcountry people carry (ones that really have encounters with bears, lions, dogs, pigs, etc).


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

DeeEight said:


> I just don't get how voting for Obama would have any point to debating gun carry rights, since if you believe the whole "well he depended on the minority black/hispanic vote to win" crap, then those are the people that most white conservatives hold up as examples of people who are responsible for most gun crimes and thus MUST want to own a lot of guns. In any case, Obama (contrary to the rhetoric of the republican primaries) hasn't actually ever even mentioned anything to do with gun control or proposed any new firearms laws in his whole time in office.
> 
> Home-defence loads and other "safety" types that expand/transfer energy quickly would also be a good choice because if you should miss, and hit a tree branch or something instead, there's less risk of it going past that tree and hitting someone a hundred feet away you weren't intending to hit.


Obama proposed a international gun ban treaty with the UN however he also signed a bill allowing us to carry into national parks, the second being a good thing and the first one somewhat subjective and muddled. 
Your second point is incorrect, the energy transfer you are referring to happens upon expansion within said person, it needs the fluid; and tissue if you will to slow its course. A frangible bullet can shatter upon hitting a solid object. Any bullet ricochetting is a potential problem but in the woods as we are talking about it really is not.


----------



## photonicgirl (Jun 22, 2006)

What an interesting discussion. Here's my take: As a female, tall, thin, with long hair, I am "noticeable" wherever I ride. Females are targets, pure and simple. I personally enjoy hunting with my .308 Savage bolt action, and have spent the past nine months in NYS awaiting my pistol license which I now have. It's a "target practice" license for a year here in NY, before I can apply for concealed carry. All these years, I'm 52 by the way, I've been able to successfully defend myself against predators, such as large dogs (throw rocks and hit the dog hard, carry a big stick, scream bad dog go home), cougars (YIKES! slink off into the woods backwards), bears (same as cougars), bad people (hitchhiked around the country ALONE with a dog for 3 years), bad people (lived in Lawton, OK where I was stalked, chased, etc), and the streets of Albany NY (stalked in the parking lot). At all times, I kept my cool and basically escaped. 

You can figure I have escaped at least 50 rape/murder attempts during my 3 years on the road and in Lawton, OK, which is a very violent town. I **** you not. I wrote a book about it, but you'll have to see my blog to see more because I know there are trolls out there who will accuse me of shilling a product. Not gonna go that route.

Now that I'm heavily armed here in the country with a rottie, some weims (great guard dogs) , a long steep dirt driveway, a compound bow and very good hearing, I worry a lot less when I trek off into the woods. It can always be presumed that I am heavily armed with a variety of tools. I'm good with a rock, s slingshot (marbles and ball bearings), a pistol, a rifle, a bow, a stick, sand, a dirty low down trick that gets them every time, and literally, psychic defense on top of that. I always have a weapon or two or three within reach for quick access and I know how to use them. After all, I am a target. I am a woman.

Right at this moment, in the State of NY where I reside, it is not legal for me to carry a concealed gun on my person so I don't. In the nearby great State of VT where we own 80 acres, it is legal for me to carry a pistol on my property and in the state. It is legal for me to hunt on my own land without a license, even though I carry a VT hunting license anyway. So I do.

You can imagine I am in stealth mode in the woods, as a female target. I frequently track and hike alone in the mtn ranges where I live and beyond. When in the woods, I will see you before you see me, and I will hear you before you hear me. That's a given. However, on my mountain bike, and on my road bike, I'm out in the world and everyone can see me from all directions. When I'm getting into and out of my truck in town and the city, I'm very visible. How do I protect myself then? 

Well, there's bear spray, a fine product that produces a shotgun blast of pepper spray for up to 20 feet. Worth every penny. A woman can also use her snow scraper if that's all she's got. Go up from the bottom of the nose. Rip that off he'll be distracted long enough for you to escape. 

My bottom line is, once I have a concealed carry permit I will have a pistol on my person. It will be well hidden and within instant reach and access. It will be loaded. I spend a lot of time at the range practicing so you may also presume if my machine is fired I will hit the target.

As a ski patroller walking through a dark desolate empty parking lot late at night, I walk alone to my truck. I carry my ski patrol radio turned on, and I carry more than one way of avoiding conflict. I look around in a peripheral manner at all times. Being a military brat I learned from the best. When I go to my truck and unlock it, I get into it quickly and relock it. Just so you understand, at no time have I felt "safe" during my lonely ski patrol walk to the parking lot late at night, even tho we NEVER have any problems at our resort. 

Yes, I could ask for an escort, but I'd rather be independent, and as they say in Oklahoma, maybe someday someone will MAKE MY DAY.

Jules


----------



## High Side (Apr 16, 2010)

glock 26 would be my choice


----------



## tabletop84 (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm from germany and I have a hunting licence and guns but it's strictly forbidden to carry them anywhere without a hunting-context. I live in one of the safest countries in the world.

There may be guys who live in certain areas who might feel safer with a gun but as a mountainbiker the risk should be very very low that you need to defend yourself with a firearm. It's more dangerous to get hurt in a car accident.


----------



## LowOnO2 (Nov 1, 2011)

thrasher_s said:


> Could you describe your riding style so we can make better recommendations? Also, 29er or 26er?
> 
> I personally carry a titanium battle-axe with a carbon fiber handle for AM rides, a pair of Japanese katanas for XC (the Japanese make the BEST bike weapons), and a full on jousting lance for DH.


I needed this today! Thanks!


----------



## LowOnO2 (Nov 1, 2011)

Would any of you be afraid of the firearm accidently going off? I understand that there are safety mechanisms but during a bike ride it will get banged up that the safety might be disengaged and then the next jump or wipe out you kills yourself or the one that you are riding with. Maybe a firearm would be safer on a road ride since not alot of bumps or jumps. Please dont say that you will use a holster because same danger if you crash.

Same goes for a knife. I can only imagine wiping out hard only to have the knife sticking into my body when I wipe out.

Also, I am not too sure if someone that wants to surprise you in the woods will allow you much time to get your weapon out of your camelback, fanny pack.

Just food for thought. I might prefer a weapon that is the size of hand pump that velcros to the frame. That way all you have to do is reach down and unvelcro instead of getting out of your pack. Something like the batans that cops use.


----------



## dchandle (Jan 11, 2012)

LowOnO2:
QUALITY MODERN handguns really do not have the problem of Accidental Discharge. Assuming you have a quality firearm (even without a safety) with a reasonable trigger pull (it's a carrying piece, not a target gun) and a decent holster then you really will not have to worry about the above scenario. 

What I worry about is hitting your mag release on a fall which is why I recommended carrying a hammerless revolver (further impact safety as well). The other concern is falling on your firearm in a way that causes severe injury which is why I'd stick with 11'/2' carrying positions.


Photonicgirl: My hunting rifle is a 10FP in .308. Handloaded rounds make her a beautiful rig to shoot.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

dchandle said:


> What I worry about is hitting your mag release on a fall which is why I recommended carrying a hammerless revolver (further impact safety as well).


My Walther PPS has a trigger guard mag release... It's pretty hard to accidentally drop a mag.

It also takes a bit of practice before you get used to it...


----------



## Moozh (Jan 20, 2010)

soo....about that sternum holster a few pages back...


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

Anyone whos considering carrying a Concealed weapon should seek extensive training. Above what your states minimum is. Learn how to field clear your gun, draw, retention shooting, and how to break your gun down with your eyes shut. Also learn to count rounds. If youre scared of a gun or dont know how to use it, youre going to get hurt. It aint for everyone.
\Any gun you carry on your person will be noticed by you. Carry as big as you can stand.
Also make sure you are comfortable with having a loaded weapon on you. The behavior of noobie gun toters is really obvious. always touching it, twitchy and always thinking about it. Its just a tool, learn how to use it.
Lastly, youre not obligated to let people know you have a gun. just be cool. Unless its a LEO and he flat out asks you if you have a gun.


----------



## photonicgirl (Jun 22, 2006)

DC Handle that 10FP in .308 does sound sweet. Tactical? With a nice scope probably. You have the whole set up for reloading? What's it cost you per round? I looked into it but it's an expertise only field and my knowledge isn't up to speed enough to do the reloading...very impressive!


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

Just carry a flare gun IMO.

Cheap, no permit required, make lot of noise and light, you can easily scare the shite out of a bear and even use it for distress signals if needed... Unless you plan on shooting people, if you're able to fire a pistol accurately, you shouldn't have problem placing a shot with a flare gun and it's pretty much all you need to do to make your point.

Oh, and also have a telescopic baton mounted in a frame pump mount on your bike. Thats about the fastest and most convenient way to access a melee weapon during a ride.


----------



## swingset (Oct 14, 2010)

David C said:


> Just carry a flare gun IMO.
> 
> Cheap, no permit required, make lot of noise and light, you can easily scare the shite out of a bear and even use it for distress signals if needed... Unless you plan on shooting people, if you're able to fire a pistol accurately, you shouldn't have problem placing a shot with a flare gun and it's pretty much all you need to do to make your point.
> 
> Oh, and also have a telescopic baton mounted in a frame pump mount on your bike. Thats about the fastest and most convenient way to access a melee weapon during a ride.


The idea of a defensive pistol is the bring the fight to an end. A flare gun may do that, but it's just as likely to be laughed at by a serious predator...or his friends.

I would not carry a gimmick, myself, but it's your risk to take.


----------



## lvdukerider (May 19, 2010)

Glock 26 with extra mag everywhere I go, in a small 5x7 Maxpedition pouch that can be attached to my belt, on the outside of my camelback, or with a sholder strap over my sholder like a small messenger bag or cinched up under my armpit like a enclosed sholder holster. Yes I have fallen several times and landed on my gun and its not going to go off without my finger on the trigger.


----------



## Will Goes Boing (Jan 25, 2008)

the_owl said:


> Anyone whos considering carrying a Concealed weapon should seek extensive training. Above what your states minimum is. Learn how to field clear your gun, draw, retention shooting, and how to break your gun down with your eyes shut. Also learn to count rounds. If youre scared of a gun or dont know how to use it, youre going to get hurt. It aint for everyone.
> \Any gun you carry on your person will be noticed by you. Carry as big as you can stand.
> Also make sure you are comfortable with having a loaded weapon on you. The behavior of noobie gun toters is really obvious. always touching it, twitchy and always thinking about it. Its just a tool, learn how to use it.
> Lastly, youre not obligated to let people know you have a gun. just be cool. Unless its a LEO and he flat out asks you if you have a gun.


+10000000.......

A gun won't do you any good if you can't use it effectively in a life or death/high stress situation. I use to frequent a gun forum and it's scary to see how many people buy their first gun and never had any training wanting to apply for a CCW permit.

The mindset of an untrained civilian is just way too different and IF they are unfortunate enough to get in a deadly force situation they will most certainly be on the losing end.

Some good examples that I hear a lot of people saying are.... "I'm going to shoot him in the leg to disable him" or "I'm going to shoot the knife out of his hand!" or "I'm worried of a ND so I'll CCW without one in the chamber, I should have time to rack the slide if I need to use my gun."

Are you kidding me!? :madman: I can go on and on about the ridiculous things that I've heard.

Either that or they will be faced with prison time if they pull out a gun and shoot someone when it's not justified.


----------



## photonicgirl (Jun 22, 2006)

I like the flare idea. Good advice. Element of unexpected surprise. 

My goal has always been escape and evade. I'll slip off and disappear. 

It's not like I'm home hanging around the farm. For home defense you can't beat a shotgun.

Jules


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Will Goes Boing said:


> +10000000.......
> 
> A gun won't do you any good if you can't use it effectively in a life or death/high stress situation. I use to frequent a gun forum and it's scary to see how many people buy their first gun and never had any training wanting to apply for a CCW permit.
> 
> ...


Does this not make you think that perhaps these 'untrained civilians' should not be allowed to have firearms?

I am amazed at how an item of equipment, a sidearm, should engender such a huge response in an MTB forum. A sidearm has NOTHING to do with mountain biking, yet this thread, and several others I have seen, have provoked more reasoned and not-so-reasoned responses than pretty much everything I have seen that DOES have a direct bearing on your ride. How many threads pertaining to rear derailleurs get this many responses for instance? These are things that you use EVERY ride! 
A firearm is something that, as far as I am aware, has only been used on a mountain bike ride a statistically negligible number of times. 
It amazes me too, that in all the efforts we make and the money we spend to save weight on our rides, many among us think nothing, or very little, about adding a sidearm to that burden. Odd. Especially when the chances of having to use it are so remote that there is probably a greater chance of a piece of Skylab falling on your head. 
So why do you all carry, or want to carry? Many of you have given reasons for this, but in my opinion none of them are at all valid under the circumstances you have described. The dangers of which some of you speak are a delusion, and the counter measures you would take, should these imaginary dangers present themselves, would be mostly ineffective, and nothing I have read here so far has convinced me otherwise.
So why then?


----------



## photonicgirl (Jun 22, 2006)

Dear Forum Moderator,

As stated earlier, I carry pepper spray, sold in bike shops. In fact, the bear spray I carry was purchased in a Bennington VT bike shop that sits next to the company that makes the bear spray. 

I have used my bear spray against a large snarling brown lab, and my daughter who has been attacked by dogs, also used it successfully. What really works is a slingshot by the way. That's what made the dog finally leave her alone.

When on a bike, rather than run from dogs, I turn around, face them, chase them and scream at them. If they get too close I pick up rocks and hope their owner shows up. I have been cornered on numerous occasions, having had to use my bike as a protector between me and the dogs. Lest you think I'm anti dog, I have three large breeds, including a rottie, myself, and have worked as an emergency vet tech giving shots late at night to snarling dobermans. I love dogs, just not when they corner me.

I doubt seriously I'll be carrying my pistol on a mtb ride, however I defend my fellow American's right to carry his. I think this discussion has value, as it's a reasonable question to ask in our day and age. Crime gets getting worse, people are being attacked more frequently, and those who carry may want to bring their gun. I feel it's a personal choice and valid. The discussion has been useful, to me anyway, and even tho a few inexperienced gun owners may be blogging about their hardware, we are still an armed nation Thank God. I grew up in a violent town in a violent state and I feel that we all should be allowed to protect ourselves. As a woman, I am particularly a target and I'm particularly aware.

For those guys who don't ride their mtb to the range with their concealed carry pistol, I can only say, Get Ye to the Range, Lad, and practice practice practice.

Peace,

Jules


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

rockerc said:


> Does this not make you think that perhaps these 'untrained civilians' should not be allowed to have firearms?
> 
> I am amazed at how an item of equipment, a sidearm, should engender such a huge response in an MTB forum. A sidearm has NOTHING to do with mountain biking, yet this thread, and several others I have seen, have provoked more reasoned and not-so-reasoned responses than pretty much everything I have seen that DOES have a direct bearing on your ride. How many threads pertaining to rear derailleurs get this many responses for instance? These are things that you use EVERY ride!
> A firearm is something that, as far as I am aware, has only been used on a mountain bike ride a statistically negligible number of times.
> ...


You really should stop stirring the pot. These threads are fine with gun people posting in them. But the second that the antis step is when the threads get shut down. So just stop posting negative stuff in this thread. Lets try to keep it on track. 
Thanks


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

rockerc said:


> Does this not make you think that perhaps these 'untrained civilians' should not be allowed to have firearms?
> 
> I am amazed at how an item of equipment, a sidearm, should engender such a huge response in an MTB forum. A sidearm has NOTHING to do with mountain biking, yet this thread, and several others I have seen, have provoked more reasoned and not-so-reasoned responses than pretty much everything I have seen that DOES have a direct bearing on your ride. How many threads pertaining to rear derailleurs get this many responses for instance? These are things that you use EVERY ride!
> A firearm is something that, as far as I am aware, has only been used on a mountain bike ride a statistically negligible number of times.
> ...


Fortunately I do not have to convince you to be able to exercise my *right* to carry a weapon or not. Don't like the topic, don't open the thread.


----------



## MitchD (Jun 16, 2010)

PPK/S in .380. I make up the weight difference with light weight tubes and thin grips


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

so.. clif notes before I buy the book:

Only the government should be allowed to own a gun.
youre all delusional!!
Weight penalty
buy a lottery ticket instead.

Exponentially more people are killed by drivers who dont really know how to operate a vehicle, even though the state gave them a registration and a license.



rockerc said:


> Does this not make you think that perhaps these 'untrained civilians' should not be allowed to have firearms?
> 
> I am amazed at how an item of equipment, a sidearm, should engender such a huge response in an MTB forum. A sidearm has NOTHING to do with mountain biking, yet this thread, and several others I have seen, have provoked more reasoned and not-so-reasoned responses than pretty much everything I have seen that DOES have a direct bearing on your ride. How many threads pertaining to rear derailleurs get this many responses for instance? These are things that you use EVERY ride!
> A firearm is something that, as far as I am aware, has only been used on a mountain bike ride a statistically negligible number of times.
> ...


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

It appears I have nothing more to contribute to this thread.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

the_owl said:


> so.. clif notes before I buy the book:
> 
> Only the government should be allowed to own a gun.
> youre all delusional!!
> ...


Your 'clif' notes are wrong, and your statement is not relevant.

To Sheepo, I am not 'stirring the pot', I truly just don't get it, and would really like to understand the attraction of carrying a gun when evidence suggests it is not necessary.

To AZ Mtns., I agree, I would never mess with anyone's 'rights', we have few enough still. Where I live in AZ, it is my right to not wear a helmet if I so wish when I ride my motorcycle on the road. I would never try to force people to wear a helmet, even though I think people are stupid who do not. There is a very REAL danger of serious injury or death if you do not wear a helmet, so I choose to always 'wear'. Go figure.
You are also correct that I do not need to open this thread if I do not wish to hear the views of 'gun-people'. Correct again. However, this IS a public forum, and I honestly believe that MTBing is not an activity that needs guns in the mix. Just my view. I have a right to voice my view, and if it goes any way to helping convince someone else of what I think is its sense, good. Similarly, others do not have to read or respond. A contrary opinion always should have its place; there seem to be too few of those.

In answer therefore, to the OP, my answer to his question is "no gun, (firearm, sidearm... whatever)"...


----------



## SuperSlow35th (Jul 22, 2011)

Anybody with any muscle mass that doesnt weigh 75 lbs soaking wet most likely wouldnt notice the added weight of a small pistol. Im not a big guy but im pretty sure my camelbak weighs more than most small pistols and I dont notice the weight of it.


----------



## edapp (Feb 2, 2011)

What about mountain biking makes it dangerous or delusional if a pistol is brought along? Many people carry every day. They carry to restaurants, their workplaces, while working in the yard, whatever. So if they feel the need to carry all the time why not carry on their mountain bike in the woods, when they are alone and in relatively remote areas? I feel much more vulnerable out there than in town, so I completely agree why someone would carry on rides. Although I would not limit it to mtb rides... after coming in contact with multiple ******* jackasses in rural SC riding on the road a pistol doesn't sound like a bad idea. 

The best solution I can think of is a subcompact .380 or 9/40 in the belt that was posted a few pages back. Worn under a jersey on the low back would be out of they way, secure, and an unlikely spot to fall and land on the gun.


----------



## dead_dog_canyon (Sep 8, 2010)

rockerc said:


> A sidearm has NOTHING to do with mountain biking&#8230;..


So&#8230;. using this logic, neither does a first aid kit, lighter or anything else that is not essential to getting your from point a to point b. I built my first mt. bike after reading Charles article in Outside - 1979. Peddled a few miles along the way. I have always carried a first aid kit with me but can't recall ever really needing it. I have used it a few times but I would have survived without it.

I bring a first aid as a contingency plan in case a piece of Sky Lab hits me&#8230; 
I don't smoke (anything) so the lighter is to make my life more pleasant if I need to spend the night out&#8230;



rockerc said:


> So why do you all carry, or want to carry?
> Many of you have given reasons for this, but in my opinion none of them are at all valid&#8230;..


First let me state that I'm a very strong proponent of an individuals right to defend themselves by any means necessary.

To maybe answer your question - because they can and feel a need to. You don't live where they live, ride their trails&#8230; Just because you don't do feel a need to carry, clearly others do and should be allowed to.

I have never carried a firearm past the trailhead. So far I haven't felt the need too.... but I defend the right of myself others to do so if they feel the need.


----------



## grampa_stang (Jul 10, 2011)

Carrying is also an effective way to get slow-pokes to move out of your way. Instead of yelling "on your left" and waiting for them to move....I just fire off a few rounds in the air. You'd be surprised how fast people pull over. 

Oh shoot...for those of you that wondering "is he wasting expensive home defense rounds".
You can rest easy...they were just the cheap std rounds. Sorry to keep y'all on the edge.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

rockerc said:


> Your 'clif' notes are wrong, and your statement is not relevant.
> To Sheepo, I am not 'stirring the pot', I truly just don't get it, and would really like to understand the attraction of carrying a gun when evidence suggests it is not necessary.
> To AZ Mtns., I agree, I would never mess with anyone's 'rights', we have few enough still. Where I live in AZ, it is my right to not wear a helmet if I so wish when I ride my motorcycle on the road. I would never try to force people to wear a helmet, even though I think people are stupid who do not. There is a very REAL danger of serious injury or death if you do not wear a helmet, so I choose to always 'wear'. Go figure.
> You are also correct that I do not need to open this thread if I do not wish to hear the views of 'gun-people'. Correct again. However, this IS a public forum, and I honestly believe that MTBing is not an activity that needs guns in the mix. Just my view. I have a right to voice my view, and if it goes any way to helping convince someone else of what I think is its sense, good. Similarly, others do not have to read or respond. A contrary opinion always should have its place; there seem to be too few of those.
> In answer therefore, to the OP, my answer to his question is "no gun, (firearm, sidearm... whatever)"...


Great so if you do not believe in carrying a firearm while on a Mountain Bike then do not, that a simple. Good day


----------



## tabletop84 (Apr 3, 2010)

It's probably a fetish or maybe you can call it gear queerness mixed with paranoia.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

dead_dog_canyon said:


> So&#8230;. using this logic, neither does a first aid kit, lighter or anything else that is not essential to getting your from point a to point b. I built my first mt. bike after reading Charles article in Outside - 1979. Peddled a few miles along the way. I have always carried a first aid kit with me but can't recall ever really needing it. I have used it a few times but I would have survived without it.
> 
> I bring a first aid as a contingency plan in case a piece of Sky Lab hits me&#8230;
> I don't smoke (anything) so the lighter is to make my life more pleasant if I need to spend the night out&#8230;
> ...


By the same token, you don't REALLY need 30 gears, ask any SSer, but most of us choose to use them as it makes our experience easier/better. Likewise a first aid kit. I carry one too, and I have used it often, and not just on myself. Sure, I could ride without it, but it helps ease the pain sometimes, and I prefer to not ride with an open wound, or with bits of Skylab embedded in my skull.
As for anyone's right to carry a gun, I do not dispute that, and it is not my intention to change that right. I am only concerned with trying in a small way to alter people's perceptions of the necessity of carrying a gun. 
As for being somewhere with more of a need to carry, I ride in several remote areas with some large animals and a great deal of illegal activity. I have never felt threatened enough to want to carry anything other than a quick set of heels.
To Grampa Stang, that's about the best reason I have yet heard...
To Blurr, thank you, I am having a good day!


----------



## swingset (Oct 14, 2010)

rockerc said:


> So why then?


Because I can. You happy with that?

Serious answer: I've already been the victim of a violent crime. Mine happened in a rest stop in broad daylight, in an area where crime is probably very rare. Didn't stop it from happening. My being defenseless didn't make the crime not happen. All that I learned from that is that crime can find you anywhere (especially now with the spread of meth), and that bad people don't wear capes and come in pre-determined colors and shapes.

I would not subject a single living soul to the horror of helplessness that I felt that day, but I will for damned sure pipe up and defend people who choose NOT to be a victim. Do you honestly believe that riding a bicycle negates your being targeted or harmed by a criminal? Hell, people will kill you for the contents of your wallet. Women are killed so their lifeless bodies can be raped. Do you think someone wouldn't split your skull for your $3,000 carbon bicycle? Dream on.

Is it likely? Not in the grand scheme, no, but like I said earlier you're more likely to encounter violent crime in America than a house fire...yet not a single person here would scoff of ridicule a discussion about fire extinguishers. That's because you've emotionalized and politicized personal defense, and that's sad and infantile IMHO.

Do what you want, live how you want, but my ultimate right as a human being is the ability to keep living, and if that means carrying the tools that ensure it I will if I can legally. Luckily, I live where that's the case and those tools include more than a weapon.

I would never ever want to use it, and I for damned sure know the responsibility (I've trained very well with top-notch self defense instructors). It's not cowboy dreams of killing that propels me, it's the knowledge that however small the chance that I will again encounter someone intent on harming me or my wife or my daughter, I will not be forced to endure it without any means of fighting back. And, my wife carries for the same reason.


----------



## Will Goes Boing (Jan 25, 2008)

rockerc said:


> Does this not make you think that perhaps these 'untrained civilians' should not be allowed to have firearms?
> 
> I am amazed at how an item of equipment, a sidearm, should engender such a huge response in an MTB forum. A sidearm has NOTHING to do with mountain biking, yet this thread, and several others I have seen, have provoked more reasoned and not-so-reasoned responses than pretty much everything I have seen that DOES have a direct bearing on your ride. How many threads pertaining to rear derailleurs get this many responses for instance? These are things that you use EVERY ride!
> A firearm is something that, as far as I am aware, has only been used on a mountain bike ride a statistically negligible number of times.
> ...


I agree with you to a certain extent, afterall I label myself as an anti-gun gun enthusiast. I have been at both sides of the spectrum and I am probably the most unbiased when it comes to guns because I stand on both sides.

I can write pages and pages of my thoughts on the reasons why people really want to CCW, and my thoughts on why it's not a good idea to CCW, but as Sheepo said that would just really stir the pot and make a lot of people pissed off. Also I know for a fact my opinion will not change other people's mindset on guns so I don't even bother.

Neither will anything they say will convince you that you need to carry a gun. The great thing about living in Americaland is that we can believe whatever we want to believe and do what we want to do (for the most part).


----------



## dm1333 (Jun 27, 2010)

> So why do you all carry, or want to carry? Many of you have given reasons for this, but in my opinion none of them are at all valid under the circumstances you have described. *The dangers of which some of you speak are a delusion*, and the counter measures you would take, should these imaginary dangers present themselves, would be mostly ineffective, *and nothing I have read here so far has convinced me *otherwise.
> So why then?
> __________________


Jere Melo was murdered just off of a road that I have ridden countless times.

Details emerge in shooting death of Fort Bragg City Councilman Jere Melo | PressDemocrat.com

Matt Coleman was also murdered out in the woods north of where I live.

You can google his name for articles about his murder, the ones that I found today all were associated with the marijauna culture and I choose not to link any of them.

Your comment about imaginary dangers made me chuckle, you have no idea how many people are living in the woods around where I live and how many of them have drug or mental health issues that make them dangerous. Luckily for me I don't have to prove to you that my reasons for carrying are "valid". Thanks for participating in this thread and have a great day!


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Well I do not make excuses and since everyone else is afraid to say it who carries, I will. I carry a firearm sometimes to blow the brain matter out of any Man, woman, or Animal who seeks to cause me intentional violent harm. 

I have used a firearm three times in defense, twice without having to fire, once I did, I missed, they ran, so I now get to sit and debate the usefullness of a firearm in the safetty and comfort of home. 
That is why I carry, and why everyone should.


----------



## dchandle (Jan 11, 2012)

Blurr said:


> Well I do not make excuses and since everyone else is afraid to say it who carries, I will. I carry a firearm sometimes to blow the brain matter out of any Man, woman, or Animal who seeks to cause me intentional violent harm....
> That is why I carry, and why everyone should.


I'm sure you know this, but should you ever use a firearm the words are, "My life was in danger and was forced to stop the threat." We don't kill/blow the brain matter/wound/disable.... we stop the threat.

I carry a firearm as a possible response to a threat that has chosen to do my family/me harm. At the point of their CHOICE I do nothing more than react to their force.


----------



## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

i am assuming you are addressing me?

not sure why - but a nice write up :thumbsup:



photonicgirl said:


> *Dear Forum Moderato*r,
> 
> As stated earlier, I carry pepper spray, sold in bike shops. In fact, the bear spray I carry was purchased in a Bennington VT bike shop that sits next to the company that makes the bear spray.
> 
> ...


----------



## Stupendous Man (Jan 12, 2004)

Stupendous Man said:


> Do you really need a firearm for protection from snakes?


I made this post several days ago on page 1 of this thread. Im surprised it took so long, but some DB finally negative repped me with the comment:
"What is your address, non-gun owner?"

LOL 
Shows what you know about me on an internet forum. I own 4 guns. But I dont carry one on my bike, and I have never felt the need to "neutralize the threat" of an attacking snake 

But thanks for doing your part to ensure gun rights activists continue to look like paranoid idiots. :nono:


----------



## SuperSlow35th (Jul 22, 2011)

Can anyone point me towards a safe and comfortable way to carry my AR15 on my mountain bike?We have some mean ass squirrels in my area, armed to the teeth.








On a more serious note, they found another body within 2 miles of our local trails a few weeks ago. My ruger .380 will be in my camelbak next time I ride.


----------



## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

dm1333 said:


> Your comment about imaginary dangers made me chuckle, you have no idea how many people are living in the woods around where I live and how many of them have drug or mental health issues that make them dangerous.


How do you know how many people are living in the woods, while no one else does? Or what their drug or mental health issues are?

Speaking of mental health issues ... we've got people talking about blowing people's brains out, asking for addresses of non-gun owners, and talking about carrying a gun to protect themselves from an unidentified, statistically non-existant threat to mountain bikers (forest-dwelling crazy druggies, perhaps) and that the rest of us are stupid/ignorant/naive for failing to arm ourselves against. Ok ...


----------



## dm1333 (Jun 27, 2010)

> How do you know how many people are living in the woods, while no one else does? Or what their drug or mental health issues are?


I never said that nobody else knows these people are living in the woods and I never said that I knew how many there were. How do I know that people are living in the woods around the town here? Besides it being very common knowledge?

1. I've seen them. When you see the same tent in the same spot in the woods for weeks or months on end it seems pretty safe to assume that somebody is living there. Especially when you ride by at 0700 and see somebody climb out of the tent looking like they just got up.

2. There is an actual encampment in the ravine of Hare Creek. There are several trails leading into the ravine and the only people you see climbing the guard rail and walking down those trails are people who are very obviously living in the woods. I ride by that ravine and those trails at least twice per day going to and from work. A person who works for me lives across from Hare Creek and sees the same people climbing down into the ravine with grocery bags. Why the property owner or owners is letting that continue is something I don't have an answer for.

3. I've seen property owners request a work crew from a local prison camp so that they could clear all the brush out from a piece of property. While the prison crew was brushing it out homeless people were running all over with their tents, sleeping bags, backpacks, etc. The local LE has also gone into several little encampments to clear people out before the area got brushed out. One is within sight of where I work, there is another just up the road around a bend.

4. I've heard, with my own ears, people talking about living in the woods.



> Or what their drug or mental health issues are?[/


1. I come into very frequent contact with state, county and local LE and mental health care providers. We talk about this because forewarned is fore armed.

2. At a Public Safety Committee meeting I've heard a person who runs a local shelter state that there is no reason for anybody to be sleeping out under the stars, that there are enough beds in town to fit all of the homeless. When somebody asked why people still chose to sleep out in the woods she stated that nobody checks for or attempts to stop drug use if you are sleeping out in the woods.

3. I've seen some of the same people who are sleeping out in the woods in town and they were clearly under the influence of drugs. Or had them come up to me and try to panhandle money for drugs.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

dchandle said:


> I'm sure you know this, but should you ever use a firearm the words are, "My life was in danger and was forced to stop the threat." We don't kill/blow the brain matter/wound/disable.... we stop the threat.
> 
> I carry a firearm as a possible response to a threat that has chosen to do my family/me harm. At the point of their CHOICE I do nothing more than react to their force.


And this is the problem, the more we find we must change wording to soften said action the more we will lose our rights.

We are on the same page mind you,, I think you know that, and I believe you understand where I am coming from as well


----------



## dm1333 (Jun 27, 2010)

> Speaking of mental health issues ... we've got people talking about blowing people's brains out, asking for addresses of non-gun owners, and talking about carrying a gun to protect themselves from an unidentified, statistically non-existant threat to mountain bikers (forest-dwelling crazy druggies, perhaps) and that the rest of us are stupid/ignorant/naive for failing to arm ourselves against. Ok .


Are you reallly insinuating that posters here have mental health issues because they choose to carry? As far as your "unidentified, statistically non-existant threat to mountain bikers" statement? Have a nice day, thanks for contributing to this thread! :thumbsup:


----------



## abegold (Jan 30, 2004)

My mouth is offensive enough!


----------



## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

dm1333 said:


> Are you reallly insinuating that posters here have mental health issues because they choose to carry? As far as your "unidentified, statistically non-existant threat to mountain bikers" statement? Have a nice day, thanks for contributing to this thread! :thumbsup:


Although I think you were probably being sarcastic, I'm happy to try to keep the conversation going! Makes life more interesting, especially now that we have snow/mud on all our trails and I can't go out and spend my energy turning pedals. These are topics I personally enjoy thinking about. And for the record, I'm a white, gun owning, diesel pickup truck driving, Constitution-supporting, Christian conservative. Philosophically, I'm generally on your side on this one.

Of course I'm not insinuating that anyone has mental health issues simply because they choose to carry. Not at all. I'm just curious what they are arming themselves against. In my view, threat is not defined by one's imagination; threat is defined by statistical quantification of prior occurrences. Whether bears, cougars, or druggies are known to be in the woods, are they hurting people on bikes? Not that I've heard. From my point of view, if there statistically doesn't seem to be a problem, I personally don't see a need to protect myself from said problem.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Tystevens said:


> I'm just curious what they are arming themselves against. In my view, threat is not defined by one's imagination; threat is defined by statistical quantification of prior occurrences. Whether bears, cougars, or druggies are known to be in the woods, are they hurting people on bikes? Not that I've heard. From my point of view, if there statistically doesn't seem to be a problem, I personally don't see a need to protect myself from said problem.


This is like the 10th time this article has been posted here.... 
But here is a article from my hometown on a trail I ride...
This is why I carry...

No charges for man who shot teens


----------



## dm1333 (Jun 27, 2010)

> In my view, threat is not defined by one's imagination; threat is defined by statistical quantification of prior occurrences.


I've never had my house wrecked by an earthquake or tsunami, does that mean the threat is defined by my imagination if I have a natural disaster kit made up and ready to go?

I was turned back on a ride the day Jere Melo was murdered because the killer was loose on or around the logging road that I was riding on. That may be insignificant to you but to me and the other people who were turned back that day it was very significant.

I've never had a bad encounter with a homeless person while on my mountain bike out in the woods. I have had bad encounters while walking in those very same woods or while walking around town, entering the grocery stores, a coffee shop, restaurant, etc. The same person who is yelling and screaming because I won't give him some spare change isn't going to turn into a ***** cat when he is out in the demo forest or camped out in a ravine somewhere.


----------



## db09jku (Jan 2, 2012)

Man, Memphis has encampments all around, have for years, and the same is true for ours as the comment above about the drug use not being checked up on and thats why they are not in shelters. 

As I have mentioned, I can't carry on my close to my house trails, where a body was dumped last week, due to the law, but I do everywhere else. 

If I go down, I'm not worried at all about it going off as some have asked about, the safeties on modern quality handguns have all but eliminated drop firing. On the Springfield Arms XD, Glocks, and the SW M&P, and their are many others, the firing pin can't even strike the round due to the design of the mechanism, the firing pin is blocked when the trigger is not pulled. In general, not manufacturer specific due to all being different, the trigger will essentially move a piece out of the way, the firing pin/striker will rotate up and forward to engage the rounds primer. In addition to the internal safeties, many have the trigger safety to help in case the trigger gets snagged, and some have grip safeties that you actually have to be gripping the grip to engage the safety that is located on the backstrap, pull the trigger and engage the trigger safety in order to pull the trigger, so that the internal safety is disengaged in order to fire it. Even some have all these or some of these safeties and they have an external switch in order to disengage the safety.

Modern guns, that have not been tampered with go off today because of this, it's in your hand and you pull the trigger, not because you drop it or land on it, or chunk it. 

Are there some inferior gun manufacturers out there that a drop fire could happen, probably so. There is some crappy guns out there and there a lot of old ones out there that could.

Oh, for those that question training.
Grew up hunting, shooting for sport
8 years Army National Guard, helped run pistol range when we shot annually pistol and rifle 
State required handgun course, 2 days, for carry permit
Street Combat course at local range
Worked a year at the same gun range where we worked closely with the lead instructors on advanced level classes, ie: Free training!


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Any other suggestions for carrying?

I like Kahrs too! PM40 is pretty sweet. Good firepower for its size.

But Im broke and spend all my money on bike stuff instead of firearms


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

to the person who asked for my address through anonymous neg rep, provide your name and i will kindly oblige ******bag.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Springfield XD 9mm subcompact is a nice carry weapon.


----------



## db09jku (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheepo5669 said:


> Any other suggestions for carrying?
> 
> I like Kahrs too! PM40 is pretty sweet. Good firepower for its size.
> 
> But Im broke and spend all my money on bike stuff instead of firearms


Even the Kahr PM 9 is great, with todays self defense rounds, the 9mm is very effective.

I've never owned one, but have had several friends that did when I worked at the range, they did say that for these to be trouble free, they needed to be broken in with about 200 rounds or so, once broken in, they fired very well.


----------



## dm1333 (Jun 27, 2010)

> But Im broke and spend all my money on bike stuff instead of firearms


The Bersa .380 (Thunder?) seems to be a popular little gun. I sold a Walther PPK/S a long time ago and wish I still had it. Compact, reliable, great ergonomics and modern .380 defensive rounds are nothing to sneeze at.


----------



## db09jku (Jan 2, 2012)

dm1333 said:


> The Bersa .380 (Thunder?) seems to be a popular little gun. I sold a Walther PPK/S a long time ago and wish I still had it. Compact, reliable, great ergonomics and modern .380 defensive rounds are nothing to sneeze at.


Not a bad gun. My mom has one. That is not a joke nor meant to be one. Srsly! I've had some feeding issues with cheap target ammo but the PD ammo works fine. It is a good compact size and thin.


----------



## Moozh (Jan 20, 2010)

that Bersa is a good pocket friendly (size and price) and reliable choice. I have my eye on a sig 238, I find the pocket pistols a bit of a challenge for acuracy and reliability (spent time with the kahr, ruger and s&w .380's, all have had a misload or two and the double action acruacy is a challenge I dont want to have to spend most of my energy on in a hot situation, thus the single-action accuracy, but it's a spendy pistol. But the pocket friendly nature of these .380 pistols cant be ignored, they are sweet CC pieces and the types one would more consistently be sure to develop the habit of carrying daily over the long term..

Anyone have experience with the Diamondback D380?


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

dm1333 said:


> The Bersa .380 (Thunder?) seems to be a popular little gun. I sold a Walther PPK/S a long time ago and wish I still had it. Compact, reliable, great ergonomics and modern .380 defensive rounds are nothing to sneeze at.


Those walthers are classic. All steel right? Maybe a tad heavy for riding IMO

Yall know I already like the Keltec p3at. I agree that .380 is sufficient for riding. In any self defense scenario you are gonna wish you had more firepower anyway. Might as well have a pistol that you actually take instead of leaving in the car.


----------



## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

I apologize for having stopped reading at page 8 and jumping to page 11. I thought I'd add an experience.

In 2008 while riding with a good friend, I rounded a corner just in time to see him dive off the trail to take cover behind whatever could be found. I immediately noticed that I had entered a bad situation and that the man on horseback 20 yards away was taking aim. I too dove out of the way (i.e. crashed) just as he commenced firing. Apparently my arrival had surprised him and he missed horribly with 3 rounds before he, his wife and a buddy rode off at high speed down the trail. Pumped up and confused I asked my buddy what happened. It seems he had rounded the same corner and spooked the wifes horse. The horse had reared up and before my buddy could apologize, the guy on the horse brandished a large handgun.

You know the rest of what I saw.

With that said, both of us had just recently returned from Iraq. Neither of us are strangers to being shot at but that brought us pretty close to the brink. We both agreed that if either of us had been carrying, something bad would have happened (or worse I guess). I think it was a good thing we weren't. That being said...it convinced me to carry in the future. I hated the helpless feeling I had for those few seconds, especially with my experience.

I do understand that this was not a normal situation but wow, sh!t happens.

To follow up, yes we were able to turn around and ride out to where we could contact the Forest Service. They arrested him at a gas station down the highway and we testified at his court hearing about 3 months later.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Silentfoe said:


> I apologize for having stopped reading at page 8 and jumping to page 11. I thought I'd add an experience.
> 
> In 2008 while riding with a good friend, I rounded a corner just in time to see him dive off the trail to take cover behind whatever could be found. I immediately noticed that I had entered a bad situation and that the man on horseback 20 yards away was taking aim. I too dove out of the way (i.e. crashed) just as he commenced firing. Apparently my arrival had surprised him and he missed horribly with 3 rounds before he, his wife and a buddy rode off at high speed down the trail. Pumped up and confused I asked my buddy what happened. It seems he had rounded the same corner and spooked the wifes horse. The horse had reared up and before my buddy could apologize, the guy on the horse brandished a large handgun.
> 
> ...


Seems like a pretty good reason to make it illegal for anyone to carry, horse riders included... My understanding of the possible scenarios of this are:

1) Neither party with firearms: trailside argument with verbal flareup, maybe a fist thrown, but doubtful since one party on horse, other on bike.
2) One party with firearms: avoidance situation, thankfully with no injuries.
3) Both parties with firearms: very probable tragic outcome, involving death or severe injuries. Very probable lifelong trauma, either mental or physical.

It really seems like a no-brainer to me, but no doubt many will disagree!


----------



## kazkut (Jan 18, 2012)

Well, if the good guys obey the law that doesn't allow carry, that doesn't mean the bad guys will.. these were obviously people that didn't give a rats ass about the law. Then there are those bad guys that just don't care, and carry stolen firearms with intent to burglarize/do harm. Even if the U.S. bans guns all together, those bad guys will still have their illegal firearms stashed away, or on their persons.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

kazkut said:


> Well, if the good guys obey the law that doesn't allow carry, that doesn't mean the bad guys will.. these were obviously people that didn't give a rats ass about the law. Then there are those bad guys that just don't care, and carry stolen firearms with intent to burglarize/do harm. Even if the U.S. bans guns all together, those bad guys will still have their illegal firearms stashed away, or on their persons.


There is truth to that argument of course. I just feel that in many cases it would be less likely for guns to play a part in the 'incident'.


----------



## kazkut (Jan 18, 2012)

There's always positives and negatives to every side when debating about arms' rights. Imagine a world where guns were never created.. we'd be concealing spears, and debating about the right to bear spears. lol.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Don't get me started on spear control!


----------



## ltk1144 (Dec 16, 2011)

thrasher_s said:


> Could you describe your riding style so we can make better recommendations? Also, 29er or 26er?
> 
> I personally carry a titanium battle-axe with a carbon fiber handle for AM rides, a pair of Japanese katanas for XC (the Japanese make the BEST bike weapons), and a full on jousting lance for DH.


This is the greastest thing i have ever read

Sent from my carrier pigeon


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> Springfield XD 9mm subcompact is a nice carry weapon.


Indeed... Mine has over 10,000 flawless rounds through it.
However I feel that it's too big (even the SC) to really conceal... At least in the summer.


----------



## swingset (Oct 14, 2010)

rockerc said:


> There is truth to that argument of course. I just feel that in many cases it would be less likely for guns to play a part in the 'incident'.


Then your fears should clearly be born out by the statistics in all of the states with liberal carry laws, yes? In other words, in those states we should have seen in recent years a sharp increase in the number of violent confrontations involving firearms relative to the normal lawless variety - namely the kind that demonstrate that CCW holders are to blame or are charged for homicide or negligence, correct?

Instead, we see that the overall crime rate is dropping nationally and tends to drop even more in those states. We also see that CCW holders tend not to engage in the stupidity so often feared or prescribed to them by worry warts like yourself....the predictions of wild-west shootouts and blood in the streets never materialize.

Just think about this, not a single state (out of 48 that have some form of legal concealed carry) has rescinded those laws. In fact, most have made the carry of guns more accessible in the last 10 years instead of less. That means that even on the state and law enforcement level, the numbers and statistics are not showing cause to do so.

In light of all of that, are you willing to re-examine your bias? Because it's, well, wrong.


----------



## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

db09jku said:


> Even the Kahr PM 9 is great, with todays self defense rounds, the 9mm is very effective.
> 
> I've never owned one, but have had several friends that did when I worked at the range, they did say that for these to be trouble free, they needed to be broken in with about 200 rounds or so, once broken in, they fired very well.


I'm a big fan of the Kahr line of pistols. I have the P380, PM9, P9 and P45. All very concealable.

Someone at the gun range told me that a .22mag has as much knockdown power as a .38

Anyone know if this is true?


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

Wow rockerc really believes law enforcement and govt should be the only ones allowed to own guns.
I thought I was done with this thread. Rockerc, what do you feel makes America a great country?
For me, its the constitution. And that it has withstood hundreds of years of politicians and lawmakers. When you are allowed to change the constitution, its no longer a constitution, its just a law. Your religious beliefs, all men are equal, my right to bear arms. None of these can be re-interpreted to fit an agenda. I love that.


----------



## SuperSlow35th (Jul 22, 2011)

He'd love it when Oklahoma and Texas decide to make open carry legal.


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

rockerc said:


> There is truth to that argument of course. I just feel that in many cases it would be less likely for guns to play a part in the 'incident'.


Obviously the hot head on the horse diddnt give a **** about the law and attempted to murder our own posters friend. Do you think this guy would oblige the law if it said not to carry a handgun?

I feel that if he was the type to attempt murder, he would also be the type to ignore the law.

Here lies the problem with gun control. The law abiding citizens will be defenseless against the murderers^^^ who are still carrying.

Please acknowledge this because it is the truth and I think you are reasonable enough to believe it.


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

Ye old adage, guns outlawed, outlaws have guns. People with Carry licenses have had to pass background checks. Criminals arent allowed to have Carry Licenses. Yet criminals still carry guns. Im certain banning guns will stop them from carrying. :skep:


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

You can open carry in Alabama! I did it for a little during the April tornado. Talk about wild west!


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

If we had stricter gun laws, Its likely you would never see this video!


----------



## dead_dog_canyon (Sep 8, 2010)

rockerc,

I’m posting this so you might better understand the people that conceal carry. It is about defense. The shear fact you are carrying increases your desire to avoid trouble, not be a Hollywood gunslinger. 

This a basic outline of the Pistol Course I took at Front Sight. You get 35-40 hours of training in 4 days.

Day One – 
-Basic gun handling 
-Moral and Ethical Use of Force Lecture 
-More gun handling and shooting 
-Color Code of Awareness Lecture 

Day Two – 
-Shooting 
-Criminal and Civil Liabilities from Use of Force Lecture 
-More Shooting 

Day Three –
-Tactical Movement Lecture (how to clear YOUR home – only if no police around) 
-Range Shooting 
-One at a time we went to the Shoot House with photo targets and had to clear it 
-Shoot at 4 different turning targets to simulate multiple bad guys 
-Night Shooting Course (most intrusions are after dark) 

Day Four – All day on the range 
-Review of techniques 
-Steel Target Shoot Off 
-Final Test


Quite a bit of time is spent in the classroom teaching you how NOT to get into a fight and why you will lose even if you ‘win’ the shoot. You do not want to shoot useless you are willing to die for it. You WILL LOSE if you shoot. At minimum you will lose time, privacy, money (law suits, move to new house) and possibly your life (from being shot or even a Jury of 'Your Peers'). 

Fighting is the LAST resort. 

They thoroughly went over and stressed:
Moral and Ethical use of Force (killing someone will affect you for life)
Awareness (how to avoid fight)
Criminal and Civil Liabilities from Use of Force (the law will be involved)

During this they even teach you how to be arrested after a shooting. More than likely you will be arrest until proven innocent. 

How to avoid a fight: 
1) Don’t be there in the first place
2) Run away 
3) If you shoot you lose

A couple of important things I took away:
When you present your weapon yell – ‘Stop or I will shoot’. This announces to any by-standers your intention is self-defense. If you shoot it is only to ‘stop the threat’ not to kill. Shoot center of mass. ONLY shoot in the head if Mr. Bad Actor went down and is continuing to be a threat. Most juries view headshots as murder and not self-defense. (The above is pretty much the same thing I learned in martial arts. ie: follow the same proceedure using any weapon, including hands)


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Doesnt matter how you trained to the anti gunners (that is what they are) you still are a civilian and should not be able to carry. But oh yea they are pro constitution, you know, you should be able to own a firearm in a safe, ammunition stored in a separate room, after an extensive background check but you can never actually use one cause well nobody needs to.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

I wonder how the world would have been if firearms never existed


----------



## SuperSlow35th (Jul 22, 2011)

David C said:


> I wonder how the world would have been if firearms never existed


It wouldnt. Someone said it earlier. If there were no guns we'd be debating spear/bow and arrow/knife/rock control instead of gun control. Starting to make me think I should get really good with a slingshot and carry a slingshot and a pocket full of ball bearings.


----------



## dm1333 (Jun 27, 2010)

> Seems like a pretty good reason to make it illegal for anyone to carry, horse riders included... My understanding of the possible scenarios of this are:


This thread is about what to carry, not whether or not it should be legal. But thanks for being open about your bias and agenda, if you get any unsigned neg rep on this thread it ain't from me.


----------



## db09jku (Jan 2, 2012)

Eckstream1 said:


> Indeed... Mine has over 10,000 flawless rounds through it.
> However I feel that it's too big (even the SC) to really conceal... At least in the summer.


I CC an XD 40 Service model in a CTAC holster by comp tech. I is an IWB tuckable holster. In the summer I can conceal with shorts and a Tshirt with no noticeable printing. They are comfortable too. The MTAC version is suppose to be even more comfortable.

Oh in TEnnessee it is handgun carry permit. We can open carry or conceal. I prefer conceal.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

db09jku said:


> I CC an XD 40 Service model in a CTAC holster by comp tech. I is an IWB tuckable holster. In the summer I can conceal with shorts and a Tshirt with no noticeable printing. They are comfortable too. The MTAC version is suppose to be even more comfortable.
> 
> Oh in TEnnessee it is handgun carry permit. We can open carry or conceal. I prefer conceal.


I've tried a Galco Summer Comfort IWB, Galco King Tuk IWB (best), and a Galco Soft Tuk... I don't know why I can't keep it from printing.

I also tried a Superbreed Crosstuck but that was so similar to the Galco King Tuk...


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Mace may not always work...






Tasers don't always work either... At 1:25 the guy gets tased and rips the barbs out and runs!


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

dm1333 said:


> This thread is about what to carry, not whether or not it should be legal.


Well I carry a custom made multi-tool that has a .22 super compact handgun with extra ammo instead of sockets. Pretty useful if someone tries to rape you while you are changing a flat.

Plus I have a few grenades clipped on my camelbak straps, in case I encounter a bear, I'll just have to throw a few and the bear will bear


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

David C said:


> Well I carry a custom made multi-tool that has a .22 super compact handgun with extra ammo instead of sockets. Pretty useful if someone tries to rape you while you are changing a flat.
> 
> Plus I have a few grenades clipped on my camelbak straps, in case I encounter a bear, I'll just have to throw a few and the bear will bear


At first I was like :skep: but then I read it again...








we get it, you dont like guns.


----------



## lvdukerider (May 19, 2010)

+1 to what Dead dog posted, particulary regarding the paragraph "If you shoot you loose". Im not anti gun by any means but most people just dont realize the expense and stress even a justified shoot is gonna put you through. Definatly an act of last resort.


----------



## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

Reading this thread makes me thankful I live in a country where handguns are illegal. Now we just need similar legislation against moustache-wearing...


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

Haggis said:


> Reading this thread makes me thankful I live in a country where handguns are illegal. Now we just need similar legislation against moustache-wearing...


You mean illegal for citizens, but the military and police can use guns.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Haggis said:


> Reading this thread makes me thankful I live in a country where handguns are illegal. Now we just need similar legislation against moustache-wearing...


By all means stay in your country where you are required to be a victim I am good with that  Interesting how those making said laws have people protecting them though.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

lvdukerider said:


> +1 to what Dead dog posted, particulary regarding the paragraph "If you shoot you loose". Im not anti gun by any means but most people just dont realize the expense and stress even a justified shoot is gonna put you through. Definatly an act of last resort.


Versus losing your life? I will happily stand in the courtroom.
I know people who have been victims, they spend their entire life looking over their shoulder as their attacker was never brought to justice.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

the_owl said:


> we get it, you dont like guns.


Nope. I'm not anti guns. As long as they're not being used as a threat to people and not involved into shooting anything live, like animals, insects or even humans. I understand we needed them for hunting, but when did we started to hunt fellow citizens ?

I go to the shooting range a few times a year. It's fun. I'm pretty good at it so far, but by no mean I would carry a gun in any other circumstances then zombies apocalypse.

I just don't feel that much endanger by the society so far to justify my need to carry a loaded firearm. I do carry a knife or baton when I feel like it, but that's another discussion that does not belong here 

But I liked the grenades idea anyways


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

the_owl said:


> Wow rockerc really believes law enforcement and govt should be the only ones allowed to own guns.
> I thought I was done with this thread. Rockerc, what do you feel makes America a great country?
> For me, its the constitution. And that it has withstood hundreds of years of politicians and lawmakers. When you are allowed to change the constitution, its no longer a constitution, its just a law. Your religious beliefs, all men are equal, my right to bear arms. None of these can be re-interpreted to fit an agenda. I love that.


There you go again Mr Owl, putting words in my mouth and ascribing thoughts to me that are simply not true. If I had 'my way', nobody at all would have guns! Not individuals, not law enforcement, not 'the government', by which I take it you mean the military, nor even criminals. I realise that this is not a goal that will be achieved in my, nor most reading this' lifetime, but it is a goal nonetheless.

I am also not so stupid to believe that there are no responsible and well-trained gun owners out there, and if only everyone were as responsible as dead-dog-canyon seems to be. Here are some pictures I took yesterday on my ride a couple of miles from my house that show some not so responsible gun ownership:





































About a mile or so from where I took these pictures, a kid trespassing on a jeep road up at a remote ranch a few years ago, was shot dead by the rancher who thought he was reaching for a gun. He was not, and the rancher was not held to be responsible. Very sad, and I sympathise with the kid's family, and with the rancher who has to live with what he felt he had to do.

The thing is, I believe that most of us want the same thing ultimately, that is to be able to live in a world where we do not feel the need to have to arm ourselves with deadly weapons as a part of our daily lives, and to not have to worry about being attacked and having to defend ourselves. We just differ in how we wish to accomplish that. At least I hope that is the case. Where, do tell me, is the harm in wanting that? Why do the pro-gun types, if they are as responsible as they say, not wish to do all in their power to help achieve that goal?
In my 37 year career in the concert touring industry, I have been lucky enough to travel to most countries of the world, and to have lived in several. I have been robbed at knifepoint in NYC, shot at the same day there, I have been held at gun point in the Zimbabwean bush at night by trigger-happy soldiers, and by British army soldiers at night in the countryside of Armagh during the troubles. I have been threatened at gunpoint in various other places around the world, and attacked physically at various times in different places. At no time have I ever felt that having a firearm would have helped me in any way, and I would probably not be sitting here writing this if I had been carrying at those times. I am not 'afraid of guns' as some would have me cast, I actually was afforded extensive weapons training at the hands of the British Army in the early 70s: various handguns, rifles, SMG, LMG, GPMG, and I earned my Marksman badge in .22 snap and indoor range shooting, and .303 outdoor range shooting. Guns don't scare me. 
I have met many people over the years who are gun people, however, and in my experience, not everyone is the responsible gun person many of you would have us believe. I know several people who have told me they get a 'kick' out of hunting for sport and killing something, and when I have asked why they want to carry a gun, several have also told me, only half-jokingly, that it 'makes them feel good'. I am not dreaming this. What is this visceral feeling of power that seems to cause such an inordinate reaction in people when you bring up the topic of a potential ban on guns? The reaction is almost like if you told them you were taking away a child. I don't get it. It does not seem healthy to me, and that is what irks me so much. 
To Mr Owl again, please do not insult my intelligence by telling me that the Constitution is in some way inviolate, it is not, and has been "Amended" many times when times and circumstances have dictated a necessity. I see that need again, and shall continue to dream my idealistic dream of a gun-free reality. After all, didn't idealism play a large part in the founding of this great country?

To the OP once more, my answer still stands that I do not think you or anyone needs to carry any gun while riding your bicycle. It is pointless and silly.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

not everyone is responsible with automobiles, hell most are not and with 40k people a year killed annually that should be a real concern. So do we talk about banning cars? no we look for solutions to make them safer, we design them differently, we intact laws to help guide people. The problem is we also ban the tool such as alcohol or cell phones rather than addressing the actual problem which again is the drivers themselves, until we address the driver and better driving practices simply taking away their tools creates a myriad of complicated laws which in the end accomplishes nothing as people simply find another tool to distract themselves.

The thing here where you fail in your argument with us is that you are arguing with those who are trained and who pride themselves in being responsible gun owners, this is where where your goal should be, promoting responsiblitiy and educating, not in total disarmament of a Tool. 
You post pictures of bullet ridden Cacti, acting as if firearms are the only damage to the environment, not at all, should it not be bullets you would be posting pictrures of Graphiti or carvings possibly.
You talk about third world thugs holding you at gun point as if they would be different without a firearm, more peaceful perhaps, yet ignore the fact the vast majority of the Rwanda genocide was accomplished using Machete.
You offer that a firearm would not have helped you in any of your situations, that may or may not be the case however statistically those states who allow concealed carry have a lower crime rate. Why? humans are in the end animals, they do not want to be hurt or killed when attacking pray so they go for what looks the easiest target. 
Now I understand your frustation with those not so upstanding citizens, which again is why I offer alternative methods and Ideas, but in the end it is people and society which must change, a firearm is an inert object capable of nothing on its own, The sooner people understand that, the quicker we may actuallly sit and talk like mature adults about a better world.


----------



## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

FNX 40

14 round magazine, .40 Caliber. Very accurate, reasonably light. Comfortable to shoot.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Blurr said:


> not everyone is responsible with automobiles, hell most are not and with 40k people a year killed annually that should be a real concern.
> the thing here where you fail in your argument is that you are arguing with those who are trained and who pride themselves in being responsible gun owners, this is where where your goal should be, promoting responsiblitiy and educating, not in total disarmament of a Tool.
> you post pictures of bullet ridden Cacti, acting as if firearms are the only damage to the environment, not at all, should it not be bullets you would be posting pictrures of Graphiti or carvings possibly.
> You talk about third world thugs holding you at gun point as if they would be different without a firearm, more peaceful perhaps, yet ignore the fact the vast majority of the Rwanda genocide was accomplished using Machete.
> ...


Blurr, where we also differ it seems, is that I believe that the human being is not just an animal. We have the power to make conscious decisions based on evidence that we gather from our perceptions. This enables us to have some measure of freedom of choice rather than always acting out of instinct. I also believe that the human brain has the power to imagine a measure of reality into the unreal. We reap what we sow, and we can make something that is unrealistic our reality. I am trying to not help bring that about.
I welcome honest and adult discussion to help bring about the goals I described.


----------



## tjeco (Feb 5, 2012)

*9mm, 45. or maybe a dual barrel pump action *

lots luck for you


----------



## Will Goes Boing (Jan 25, 2008)

rockerc said:


> There you go again Mr Owl, putting words in my mouth and ascribing thoughts to me that are simply not true. If I had 'my way', nobody at all would have guns! Not individuals, not law enforcement, not 'the government', by which I take it you mean the military, nor even criminals. I realise that this is not a goal that will be achieved in my, nor most reading this' lifetime, but it is a goal nonetheless.
> 
> I am also not so stupid to believe that there are no responsible and well-trained gun owners out there, and if only everyone were as responsible as dead-dog-canyon seems to be. Here are some pictures I took yesterday on my ride a couple of miles from my house that show some not so responsible gun ownership:
> 
> ...


I think you guys need to give RockerC and the other non-gun guys a break. The funny thing is I always hear about the gun guys preaching about the constitution and the 2nd amendment, but what about the 1st amendment?

When they hear an opposing opinion they immediately get really defensive and things start getting ugly. Practice what you preach, if you're enjoying your 2nd amendment let others enjoy their 1st amendment rights too. They are merely stating their opinions, it's not like they're trying to pry the guns out of your hands.

Guns and religion, IMO are the two most sensitive topics that mostly always gets people all butt-hurt. In the end no matter which side you are on, I think we should all respect each others rights to their own beliefs.

I agree with RockerC to a certain extent, that there are a lot of irresponsible gun owners out there. Although I don't think guns should be banned, I think they should be more difficult to obtain and require more training to own one. In regards to why people want to carry, there are a lot who truly feels they need it, there are a some who wants it because they can't have it (some california and all NY folks), and there are some who wants it because it makes them feel "powerful".

IMO for most it's really a novelty more than a necessity, but of course nobody is going to admit it. For the gun guys, it's probably better than sex to be able to carry a loaded gun on their person and walk around with it. Of course the "being able to defend myself" part is just the cherry on top. IMO it makes people more "brave" towards a confrontational situation that they otherwise would have avoided if they weren't carrying a gun.

That's just my 0.02 cent, as I said I am a gun enthusiast so I'm no anti. I'm just a little bit more grounded to reality.


----------



## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

Will Goes Boing said:


> I think you guys need to give RockerC and the other non-gun guys a break. The funny thing is I always hear about the gun guys preaching about the constitution and the 2nd amendment, but what about the 1st amendment?
> 
> When they hear an opposing opinion they immediately get really defensive and things start getting ugly. Practice what you preach, if you're enjoying your 2nd amendment let others enjoy their 1st amendment rights too. They are merely stating their opinions, it's not like they're trying to pry the guns out of your hands.
> 
> ...


So...who then should be responsible for "training"? Is it the govt's job? Like many resources we have available to us it's always someone doesn't oppose but wants to regulate. In giving into regulation you allow the gov't to take your freedoms a little at a time until one day you wake up and ask..."how the heck did we get here?"

Responsible gun ownership starts with responsible people. Want to change ignorance, start in your own homes.


----------



## mrmas (Jan 18, 2010)

Another vote for the. 380 LCP. Small, inexpensive, reliable, durable, and big enough to stop what you are looking to stop.


----------



## dm1333 (Jun 27, 2010)

> I think you guys need to give RockerC and the other non-gun guys a break. The funny thing is I always hear about the gun guys preaching about the constitution and the 2nd amendment, but what about the 1st amendment?


Uh, no! Nobody asked rockerc or anybody else to participate in this thread. Even though the OP was asking for advice about what and how to carry certain people have steered this thread towards whether or not to carry, or if it should even be legal.

The same crap that is going on in this thread happens in the electric bike sub forum. Somebody starts a thread about a new e-bike or asks some sort of a question and pretty soon there are all sorts of fun comments about how e-bikes aren't real bikes, they should be banned from trails, get off your lazy a** and ride a real bike, blah, blah, blah.

I've got a simple solution for David C, Haggis, rockerc and anybody else who is anti gun.

*MOVE ON TO A DIFFERENT THREAD!* It's that simple, if you don't like it, move on!

Just for kicks I'm going to cruise on through the e-bike and see if I can find a few gems to post.



> I'm confident I will sway no one from their appreciation of "electric-assist' bikes, but from my perspective,* "electric-assist" bikes are utterly asinine*, have no place in mountain biking, and definitely* no place in their own forum on MTBR *(unless it's a craven attempt at generating ad dollars from "electric-assist" manufacturers).


http://forums.mtbr.com/electric-assist-bicycles/why-589531.html



> To lazy to ride up that hill? Get an electric bike!
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Not bad, the battery on this bike weighs as much as my SS!





> yet another sign that people are just plain lazy .





> LMAO!! Fools can be found even at the pro level. Not Just in this forum


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Will Goes Boing said:


> I think you guys need to give RockerC and the other non-gun guys a break. The funny thing is I always hear about the gun guys preaching about the constitution and the 2nd amendment, but what about the 1st amendment?
> 
> When they hear an opposing opinion they immediately get really defensive and things start getting ugly. Practice what you preach, if you're enjoying your 2nd amendment let others enjoy their 1st amendment rights too. They are merely stating their opinions, it's not like they're trying to pry the guns out of your hands.


It's not that I don't want the anti gun people commenting... They have a right to comment.
However they can start their own thread on why not to carry... 
This thread was started asking about what type and how to carry on a bike... Everyone opposed to this is OFF TOPIC!

So... Please, pretty please, keep this thread free of politics and exercise your right to free speech in another more appropriate thread (start your own for all I care)!

:thumbsup:


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

I have started a thread for those of you that feel that carrying while riding is not needed...
Please post your opinions there... As this thread is needed for people looking for a way to carry while riding.

This thread is not meant to mock, provoke or troll.... I just wanted to provide a more appropriate place for you to post!

http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/anti-carrying-while-mtb-thread-766764.html#post8975363


----------



## dm1333 (Jun 27, 2010)

It's going to be hard for me to not run through that thread yelling "gungungungungungung" or posting this  but I'll try to be good.


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

dm1333 said:


> It's going to be hard for me to not run through that thread yelling "gungungungungungung" or posting this  but I'll try to be good.


Haha... Thats a good smiley!

But lets keep it civil... :thumbsup:


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

rockerc said:


> Here are some pictures I took yesterday on my ride a couple of miles from my house that show some not so responsible gun ownership:


That really is a shame... Some people are just dumb and that can't be fixed.

Most people don't realize that Saguaro can be as old as 150 years... And the arms take up to 75 years to grow...

Most people also don't understand that in AZ it is illegal to harm a Saguaro...

"Harming a saguaro in any manner, including cactus plugging, is illegal by state law in Arizona, and when houses or highways are built, special permits must be obtained to move or destroy any saguaro affected."

Saguaro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Mojo Troll (Jun 3, 2004)

dm1333 said:


> It's going to be hard for me to not run through that thread yelling "gungungungungungung" or posting this  but I'll try to be good.


Good one. Seeing how this topic comes up monthly. That smiley needs to be perminatly added to the selection.

Thirteen pages and growing. Looks like some will have to start a "Ridng without a helmet" or "Riding with headphones" thread. To draw attention from this thread.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Eckstream1 said:


> That really is a shame... Some people are just dumb and that can't be fixed.
> 
> Most people don't realize that Saguaro can be as old as 150 years... And the arms take up to 75 years to grow...
> 
> ...


The damage in these pics more represents disease that is decimating the Saguaro populations and nesting and burrowing animals. That is not to say that some people shoot them just that the damage seen in the pics is probably damage from disease and animals and is not an uncommon sight in AZ.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

AZ.MTNS said:


> The damage in these pics more represents disease that is decimating the Saguaro populations and nesting and burrowing animals. That is not to say that some people shoot them just that the damage seen in the pics is probably damage from disease and animals and is not an uncommon sight in AZ.


No, this is damage caused by shooting. The area I took these pictures from is littered with shell cases and trash. There are holes right thru the cactus in places. If you look at all the other cactus around, and there are many thousands, none look like these. I am also friends with the city parks and rec. person responsible for the area, also a cactus expert, and this is a well-known problem. Definitely NOT disease or animal caused.
Whatever, one bullet aimed at a cactus is one too many.


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, we all know someone who knows someone.


----------



## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

the problem there isnt guns, its irresponsible people. dont clump them together.
Same could be said for car owners and alcohol. DUI isnt the problem of alcohol its drivers being negligent. Should we ban alcohol to fix the drunk driving issue?


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

the_owl said:


> Should we ban alcohol to fix the drunk driving issue?


I think they tried that once... 

It didn't work... 

LOL


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

How many anti-gunners in this thread that are not U.S. citizens?


----------



## Badassbassangler (Jul 11, 2011)

Hope you haven't gotten bored reading replies to your thread yet...check this out...


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Badassbassangler said:


> Hope you haven't gotten bored reading replies to your thread yet...check this out...


Nice RAM Mount holster!

:thumbsup:


----------



## Badassbassangler (Jul 11, 2011)

For the D-Bags shooting cacti...R U Serious. I'm from the eastern woods of PA and can't fathom the stupidity of destroying anything that retains moisture in a desert!!!


----------



## Moozh (Jan 20, 2010)

Blurr said:


> By all means stay in your country where you are required to be a victim I am good with that  Interesting how those making said laws have people protecting them though.


Love to know if the foreign born or non-us members actually believe themselves to be victims? I've lived in 4 countries, visited 9, never felt like a victim in any, only got the sense of life-and-limb danger from LE and dodgy civiilians here in the US. I also am now a legal owner of a few firearms that I hope never to press into service, and appreciative that the legal option is there, never felt the want or need elsewhere tho truth be told the world generally is not such a genteel place in the shadows..


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

floydlippencott said:


> How many anti-gunners in this thread that are not U.S. citizens?


Is this making any difference ?

Is MTBR only for U.S. citizens ? Oh, sorry, I'll go back to PinkBike to discuss which bow to carry and why people are harming maple tree for fun by throwing axes at them.

Just a question : are you guys also wearing a bullet-proof vest under your shirt when you ride ?


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Moozh said:


> Love to know if the foreign born or non-us members actually believe themselves to be victims? I've lived in 4 countries, visited 9, never felt like a victim in any, only got the sense of life-and-limb danger from LE and dodgy civiilians here in the US. I also am now a legal owner of a few firearms that I hope never to press into service, and appreciative that the legal option is there, never felt the want or need elsewhere tho truth be told the world generally is not such a genteel place in the shadows..


Ahhh yes since it did not happen to you then it must not happen to anyone. 
21 countries down so far and I had a knife pulled on me in Denmark, one of the supposed safest countries in the world, course I got in a fight with a bunch of drug dealers a month after that, you know, a country that also supposedly doesnt have a drug problem. 
Then you had the Japanese Kid who disappeared off a train I was on who was traveling with us for protection, made the fateful decision to get a sleeper car never to be seen again, no surprise, the italians really seemed to hate the poor kid. Anotther girl from boston who also was on that train with us who disappeared on her next trip when she separated to go on her own. But hey, isolated incidents IM sure, you can tell that to the Halloway family and the thousanads of others who lose family traveling in supposed safe areas year after year. Statistically something probably will not happen to you, or anyone for that matter, but as you said things can and do happen. So I ask you again, what country trusts its people enough to elect its officials who get the best protection that country has to offer, yet will go on to deny its very citizens who gave them power, and safety the same in return.


----------



## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

Blurr said:


> By all means stay in your country where you are required to be a victim I am good with that  Interesting how those making said laws have people protecting them though.


"Required to be a victum..., People protecting them..." What are you on? Have you ever actually travelled? You feel unsafe with every 2nd lunatic carrying a gun so your response is to carry one yourself? That's one twisted logic. Americans are so militarised you first response is always to pull a gun and look how well your foreign policy is working. Yee haw.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

I wont argue your point on LE, however that goes along with the training they receive in todays sad nation. However I can promise you that someone concealed carry owner has held a door for you and you did not have a clue. 
I found this interesting and honestly surprised me, honestly I generally agree with you while traveling, however I believe in taking certain precautions and have no problem with anyone ;doing so. 
The missing: Each year, 275,000 Britons disappear - Home News - UK - The Independent

Missing Persons Statistics and Facts - 2,300 a Day - Crime Library on truTV.com
2300 people each day go missing, now mind you some of course are just those who do not want to be found, but a good chunk disappear from Ill reasons, those people deserve the opportunity to defend themselves, nobody ever should take that away fromn them.
As for myself I do not worry aboutti t so much one way or another but I have a great deal of fighting experience under my belt in unarmed combat. As well as excellent formal training and competition experience with a firearm as well. I do carry at times, as I get older I do not long for a scrap, I would rather go home without the dice roll which is what a fight is, I dont care how big and bad you are it can still not go well for you.
I have a veyr good friend who is a Doctor in New Orleans who fears for his life daily riding the bus home where thugs openly threaten him, he cannot carry a gun as the hospital he works for will fire him so he is down to carry some other tools I advised him. Sad, wonderful man would be sad to losee someone of his talent simply because of ignorant bias.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Haggis said:


> "Required to be a victum..., People protecting them..." What are you on? Have you ever actually travelled? You feel unsafe with every 2nd lunatic carrying a gun so your response is to carry one yourself? That's one twisted logic. Americans are so militarised you first response is always to pull a gun and look how well your foreign policy is working. Yee haw.


Twisted Logic would be having the best protection possible only for politicians when the citizens are unarmed, what are they afraid of, slingshots? Pitchforks? 

I do not feel unsafe when someone else carries a firearm, no more so than when other people drive, and lets face it most people are barely able of controlling their 1 ton & over missile going down the road. Does that bother you? are you ok with that? You must be because I certainly do not see anyone trying to ban automobiles.


----------



## Will Goes Boing (Jan 25, 2008)

Blurr said:


> I wont argue your point on LE, however that goes along with the training they receive in todays sad nation. However I can promise you that someone concealed carry owner has held a door for you and you did not have a clue.
> I found this interesting and honestly surprised me, honestly I generally agree with you while traveling, however I believe in taking certain precautions and have no problem with anyone ;doing so.
> The missing: Each year, 275,000 Britons disappear - Home News - UK - The Independent
> 
> ...


Why is your friend riding the bus to work instead of driving? He's a doctor so obviously it's not because he can't afford a car.

I've mentioned this in another thread, but IMO the best "self-defense" is using your brain and common sense. If he KNOWS there are scum bags riding the bus, and he has been threatened in the past, why does he insist on taking the bus?

So if he carries say, a knife, and 5 thugs asks him for his wallet, is he going to try to take them on with a 3" knife?

David C - You have no idea how crazy some people are. On gun forums you have guys asking about kevlar vests because they want to buy one to wear around everyday. You also have guys who want to buy full on police ballistic shields in case of a home invasion.

Not sure if you guys have seen the preview of that new show that's coming up called "Doomsday Preppers". It's ridiculous how paranoid some people get.

Whether it's a car accident, cancer, breaking my neck in a mountain bike crash, or the end of the world.... if it's going to happen it's going to happen. I don't spend every waking moment of my life worrying about it and be in constant fear/paranoia.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Will Goes Boing said:


> Why is your friend riding the bus to work instead of driving? He's a doctor so obviously it's not because he can't afford a car.
> I've mentioned this in another thread, but IMO the best "self-defense" is using your brain and common sense. If he KNOWS there are scum bags riding the bus, and he has been threatened in the past, why does he insist on taking the bus?
> So if he carries say, a knife, and 5 thugs asks him for his wallet, is he going to try to take them on with a 3" knife?
> David C - You have no idea how crazy some people are. On gun forums you have guys asking about kevlar vests because they want to buy one to wear around everyday. You also have guys who want to buy full on police ballistic shields in case of a home invasion.
> ...


Doctors make garbage wages after they graduate from med school, a bus at this time is what he can afford, however that isa moot argument as there are millions of other people within this country who do not and may not ever have a chance to not ride a bus, should they be thrown to the dogs? Is that seriously your answer? is a convience store clerk not entitled to safety and security? Is someone who works at Mcdonalds that worthless in your eyes? How sad. 
My friend was beaten nearly to his lifes end before and would love to prevent thtat in the future, again I advised him a couple of tools for his personal protection whicch should aid in his escape should they have to be used as well as avoidence techniques so again hopefully he never has to come to a life threateening situation.
Any person deserves the right to protect themseelves and their property, no person should have to work harder because someone else does not want to work and takes their property from them. 
Your last statement is well,silly to say the least, I am sure you wear a helmet and have learned to become a better mtn biker, IM also willing to bet you do not drive a car without a seatbelt and that you certainly do not just run accross a street without looking first, and I bet you also probably ride a bike to stay healthy, not just living at mcdonalds do you?
Please I and otheres on here have engaged in civil discussion without putting those who so choose to not be armed down. Yet those who do not wish to be armed and continually talk about how evil and dangerous those of us who do are. Maybe you are afraid? If so you are making our argument for us.. If not are some people who are against carry thugs out with no good intentions? which is it I wonder?


----------



## NEWBIE_56 (Feb 3, 2012)

I am all for carrying A concealed weapon providing you have A license to carry A concealed weapon. As for which gun is best I would vote for a Glock because they are made out of polycarbonate and are very light weight.


----------



## jwkj101401 (Mar 28, 2011)

I don't carry while riding simply because of ergonomics. I can't think of a carry location while riding where I would feel secure that gun would stay in location, I could access it quickly and in a crash would not cause me body injury.  That doesn't mean in future I won't, if someone were to convince me of a good way to I would.

However I carry every day of my life because I want to have be able to have to opportunity to protect myself in a situation. I'm not 100% confident that I would be able to get firearm out and neutralize the threat in every situation, however I would rather have that opportunity than not. If I can prevent it I don't want my family to have to put me in ground. 
I think the greatest threat today in America is people with drug problems, in reality there are not that many serial killers/thrill killers out there. Most people that are willing to do you harm are willing to do so because of money for drugs, or the simple desire for money. I don't carry large amounts of $ and I am extremely cautious about the places I go and don't put myself in bad situations. ie isolated locations late night/unfamiliar locations. Its almost to a fault but I assume that people I meet out are not trust worthy until the prove so. That's not to say I'm not friendly but I'm not going to make myself a victim, I love my life and will fight for it whatever it takes.


----------



## Moozh (Jan 20, 2010)

glocks are great, they are light compared to other guns their same size but truth is they are pretty bulky. They work well in holsters (iwb and owb) but not as pocket carry. Also most every manufacturer has `the capability to make a polymer frame so a great many handguns are also as just as light. Glocks are great in that they go "bang" every time you pull the trigger. They are very reliable, relatively easy to maintain and clean compared to most, in fact a glock is almost best operated "dry" with just the rails and barrel lightly lubricated. Just point and shoot. They make great guns as intro firearms because they are easy to care for and reliable to operate.


----------



## Moozh (Jan 20, 2010)

Blurr said:


> Ahhh yes since it did not happen to you then it must not happen to anyone.
> 21 countries down so far and I had a knife pulled on me in Denmark, one of the supposed safest countries in the world, course I got in a fight with a bunch of drug dealers a month after that, you know, a country that also supposedly doesnt have a drug problem.
> Then you had the Japanese Kid who disappeared off a train I was on who was traveling with us for protection, made the fateful decision to get a sleeper car never to be seen again, no surprise, the italians really seemed to hate the poor kid. Anotther girl from boston who also was on that train with us who disappeared on her next trip when she separated to go on her own. But hey, isolated incidents IM sure, you can tell that to the Halloway family and the thousanads of others who lose family traveling in supposed safe areas year after year. Statistically something probably will not happen to you, or anyone for that matter, but as you said things can and do happen. So I ask you again, what country trusts its people enough to elect its officials who get the best protection that country has to offer, yet will go on to deny its very citizens who gave them power, and safety the same in return.


Never actually bothered to read a word I wrote did you..

I'll say this, you sure do know a number of folks living on the wild side.

I suggest asking the non-US citizen/resident members if they do in fact find that they are victims of their governments. Listen to them..I would assume they mostly have a better than 6th grade education and are the best at evaluating the details of their own lives instead of being told by someone...ahem..more enlightened that they are delusional.

I never ever suggested nor am I silly enough to believe awful things don't happen all over, all the time. I know you wish to assert your point, as I see you are quite aggressive in your replies to various post but like I said, I own guns too and hardly stated they should be banned.

Other countries have their customs and culture and more than not are societies far older than the US generally without the modern-day practice of firearms owned by the populace and do what they feel is best for themselves, they also are democracies and presumably have the mechanisms to begin the public discussion on the subject. When western europe talk of guns, they generally collectively say "less" not "more"..their choice..the poor ignorant sheep that they are (erm..sarcasm fyi).., again..it plainly is not perfect as every country has violent crime yet you still do not hear of the citizenry that are clearly free to express their opinions and wishes calling for the right to bear arms. I dont think they are dumba$$es or naive dolts for their decisions either..


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

floydlippencott said:


> Yeah, we all know someone who knows someone.


If this is directed at my remarks, read them again please. I would guess that pretty much everyone I know 'knows someone', but the person I am talking about is directly responsible for the area in question. Like I said, also the cactus expert in this city agency.

To dm1333, you really are not doing a lot to promote any idea of responsibility in gun ownership are you? I don't really consider this to be such a joke.

And to those of you who are so outraged that I have posted something that does not sit well with the topic of the OP, oh dear! I am so f**king sorry!

Happy Monday Everyone! Be safe out there!


----------



## SuperSlow35th (Jul 22, 2011)

Haggis said:


> "Required to be a victum..., People protecting them..." What are you on? Have you ever actually travelled? You feel unsafe with every 2nd lunatic carrying a gun so your response is to carry one yourself? That's one twisted logic. Americans are so militarised you first response is always to pull a gun and look how well your foreign policy is working. Yee haw.


The logic (in my opinion anyway). Is this, for every law abiding citizen that could possibly be carrying a gun, thats one more deterrent for someone not so law abiding to do their deed. Its kind of like the red LED's on car alarms dont stop someone from breaking into a car. But it may make the thief move on to a car with no red LED in hopes it doesnt have an alarm. I would actually be perfectly happy if they made open carry legal in my state. If someone is getting ready to knock over a 7-11 and they walk up and see 2 or 3 customers with guns on their hips, they are going to think twice about doing it. In a eutopian society guns wouldnt exist, be needed, or even be considered. Unfortunately we live in a world where bad things happen to good people, bad people carry guns, and those of us who are good need a way to protect ourselves.

As for our foreign policy, I cant even call it that without getting a bad taste in my mouth. It is our government's foreign policy. The US government is doing so many things right now that the US people dont agree with or believe that its rediculous and I have very seriously considered moving out of the country. Hopefully there will be a change in office for the better this year and things will start to be on the upswing however.

The simple point of it is, by US law (after obtaining a permit) I am allowed to carry a weapon on my person in most situations. If you dont believe in carrying a weapon, thats fine, dont. But to think that you are going stand in the way of my right to carry is asinine.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Moozh said:


> Never actually bothered to read a word I wrote did you..
> 
> I'll say this, you sure do know a number of folks living on the wild side.


 Not sure what this is supposed to mean, that people who had something bad happen to them somehow deserved it?



> I suggest asking the non-US citizen/resident members if they do in fact find that they are victims of their governments. Listen to them..I would assume they mostly have a better than 6th grade education and are the best at evaluating the details of their own lives instead of being told by someone...ahem..more enlightened that they are delusional.


 Ok so people should be able to make their own decisions concerning their lives or not? I wil ignore your insult in the attempt to keep this discussion civil. 


> I never ever suggested nor am I silly enough to believe awful things don't happen all over, all the time. I know you wish to assert your point, as I see you are quite aggressive in your replies to various post but like I said, I own guns too and hardly stated they should be banned.


 A gun does zero good locked up in your safe. Ignoring your aggressive comment 


> Other countries have their customs and culture and more than not are societies far older than the US generally without the modern-day practice of firearms owned by the populace and do what they feel is best for themselves, they also are democracies and presumably have the mechanisms to begin the public discussion on the subject. When western europe talk of guns, they generally collectively say "less" not "more"..their choice..the poor ignorant sheep that they are (erm..sarcasm fyi).., again..it plainly is not perfect as every country has violent crime yet you still do not hear of the citizenry that are clearly free to express their opinions and wishes calling for the right to bear arms. I dont think they are dumba$$es or naive dolts for their decisions either..


No person save yourself should better be able to determine the needs within your life.
If you and others choose to again allow someone you deem more important than your own life in the capable hands of armed security then that is your choice, but I will take control of my own family and their safety as I best see fit, that is what someone, anyone should do within their life. 
Most people who have not personally had a need for a firearm generallly have distaste for them, that nearly always changes when they are put in a position where they will need one, you know, kind of like ww2 when we dropped arms for civilians to be able to fight back against the nazi's.

UK riots 2011: Britain Burning - Police Station Firebombed as Police, Civilian Patrols Show Numbers - YouTube

ITALY - Riots in Rome - Civil War Scenario - Italian Protest Turns Into Violence (RAW VIDEO) - YouTube


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

SuperSlow35th said:


> In a eutopian (sic... is this in EUrope perhaps?) society guns wouldnt exist, be needed, or even be considered.


 So if this is a Utopian ideal, ie. something to be found in the best of all possible worlds, why not try and help promote the concept wherever possible, as some other countries do, instead of succumbing to the "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" mentality of the herd? I suggest that if a powerful country such as this is were to promote and actively encourage global disarmament with the same zeal and fervor it uses in other more dubious areas of internal and external policy, everywhere would be a great deal better off. But I guess this would not sit well with the arms industry... Hmmm, there's something that nobody has yet mentioned...


----------



## Mrwhlr (Sep 16, 2006)

*Which one?*

One that has bullets in it: tazer and spray didn't do what a Pb injection did.

*ORIGINAL FOOTAGE* Suspect with Crowbar Shot Outside Carls Jr Monterey Park - YouTube


----------



## SuperSlow35th (Jul 22, 2011)

rockerc said:


> So if this is a Utopian ideal, ie. something to be found in the best of all possible worlds, why not try and help promote the concept wherever possible, as some other countries do, instead of succumbing to the "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" mentality of the herd? I suggest that if a powerful country such as this is were to promote and actively encourage global disarmament with the same zeal and fervor it uses in other more dubious areas of internal and external policy, everywhere would be a great deal better off. But I guess this would not sit well with the arms industry... Hmmm, there's something that nobody has yet mentioned...


Ok excuse me for a typo, this is an informal public forum and im typing these posts between tickets at work.

Secondly, again the concept works great on paper, not so good IRL. Just because you support global disarmament doesnt mean everyone is going to conceed. The gun was invented, noone is ever going to get rid of it now. We could have a national law for everyone to turn in their firearms and alot of good peaceful people would agree to it. The problem is, the people who are already breaking the law arent going to give two shits. All that would do is make the innocent defenseless.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

rockerc said:


> So if this is a Utopian ideal, ie. something to be found in the best of all possible worlds, why not try and help promote the concept wherever possible, as some other countries do, instead of succumbing to the "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" mentality of the herd? I suggest that if a powerful country such as this is were to promote and actively encourage global disarmament with the same zeal and fervor it uses in other more dubious areas of internal and external policy, everywhere would be a great deal better off. But I guess this would not sit well with the arms industry... Hmmm, there's something that nobody has yet mentioned...


If one of the worst genocides in recent history was committed by machete wielding thugs what would global disarmament accomplish?

I certainly hold your hope for a peaceful world but people have killed since the beginning of time and always will, disarming the only realistic means of defense will accomplish nothing.
Ask yourself, it is Illegal to murder, have people stopped killing? It is Illegal to carry a firearm into a bank, has this stopped armed robberies? 
And of course it is Illegal to fly an airplane without a pilots license did that stop the 911 hijackers from murdering (no firearms were used) and flying jets they were not licensed nor qualified to fly into buildings?


----------



## SuperSlow35th (Jul 22, 2011)

Mrwhlr said:


> One that has bullets in it: tazer and spray didn't do what a Pb injection did.
> 
> *ORIGINAL FOOTAGE* Suspect with Crowbar Shot Outside Carls Jr Monterey Park - YouTube


In before the lock. Here comes the barrage of police brutality accusations among the issue of gun control.


----------



## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

Thread has run it's course - locked.


----------

