# Generic crown race OK for cartridge bearing headset?



## No MSG (Nov 19, 2005)

Bought a used Frame with the Zerostack headset installed. But instead of the stock plastic crown race, the seller gave me a steel one that he used...I didn't realize this until I installed the fork.

When I discover this, I talk to the seller. He said that he'd ship me the original crown race, but that he never used it because it seemed "weak." He believed that since it was a cartridge bearing headset, any crown race would work.

Question: Should I pull the steel crown race off and install the correct (plastic) one? Or does it matter?

I'm hesitating, because it's a PITA to pull a crown race, since I don't have the right tools (I use an old chisel and a mallet...real sloooooow).


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## ampig (Mar 8, 2007)

All of the races I have pulled off and installed looked slightly different from each other. I also use the hammer and chisel method but really should break down and buy a puller.


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## Zanetti (Sep 18, 2005)

No MSG said:


> He said that he'd ship me the original crown race, but that he never used it because it seemed "weak." He believed that since it was a cartridge bearing headset, any crown race would work.


The seller could not be more wrong. Crown races are unique to the headset, and aren't interchchangeable. Don't settle for his BS story, demand the original crown race.


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## Unemployed_mechanic (Apr 10, 2007)

*Not quite true*



Zanetti said:


> The seller could not be more wrong. Crown races are unique to the headset, and aren't interchchangeable. Don't settle for his BS story, demand the original crown race.


There's some limited interchangeability between certain types of headsets. Some Zero-stack headsets are using 45x36 angular contact cartridge bearings, the same that an IS integrated uses as well as some standard 1 1/8" headsets. Since the crown race depends almost entirely on the bearing dimension, they're more or less interchangeable, unless it creates some interference with the lower cup.

Loose-ball headsets can sometimes be interchanged with different crown races, but is more problematic since the ball bearing size varies and sometimes the number used.

I've never understood the point of using a plastic "crown race" that just slides onto the fork besides ease of install/removal. It's basically the same thing as the conical washer that sandwiches between the upper bearing cap (or race) and the steerer tube, but seems to have a design flaw. I ascribe more or less to Chris King's theory on dynamic surface bearing wear, as the lack of a press fit essential creates another dynamic surface and more freedom for the bearing to shift around in use. The lower bearings in a headset also see more wear and stress than the upper bearings. However, I haven't seen any real world problems with these yet.

I'd use a pressed on crown race myself given the choice.

-R


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## Unemployed_mechanic (Apr 10, 2007)

*The Stein remover is the best*



ampig said:


> All of the races I have pulled off and installed looked slightly different from each other. I also use the hammer and chisel method but really should break down and buy a puller.


Unfortunately I bought the Park remover and kind of regret it. Well, not too much, it works well, just more awkward to use.

Both the Park and Stein removers use knife edges to get another races that are flush with a suspension fork crown. The Stein remover requires a bench vise to squeeze them underneath the crown; the Park one has threaded plungers to drive the knife edges. Sometimes this is all that's needed to remove the race, but if not the knife edge assembly can be attached to the slide hammer portion of the Stein tool to drive it off. The Park remover just uses a giant threaded plunger that pushes down on the steerer tube. The whole tool is huge, pretty rediculous that a tool that big is necessary to get a stupid crown race off. I blame suspension fork manufacturers for the oversight.

The cool thing about the Stein tool is that you can use it to install crown races too, with a little modification. The opposite end will fit over the steerer tube, and a suitable adapter (like the ones that come with the Park crown race installation set, although I can't seem to find them individually without the driver) can be placed between the tool end and the race, to prevent damage.

I think both retail for over 100 bones, so it may be hard to justify the cost if you seldomly remove crown races.

-R


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## No MSG (Nov 19, 2005)

*There is no contact with the bearings.*



Zanetti said:


> The seller could not be more wrong. Crown races are unique to the headset, and aren't interchchangeable. Don't settle for his BS story, demand the original crown race.


If this were a loose-bearing setup, I wouldn't use anything other than the stock crown race, because the ball bearings roll directly on the crown race.

However, my bearings are encased in a cartridge, which essentially provides for the equivalent of an internal crown race. Thus, that lower-inside portion of the cartidge rests directly on the crown race and does not rotate on the crown race. In other words, the lower-inner section of the cartridge bearings simply need something stable to rest on.


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## No MSG (Nov 19, 2005)

Unemployed_mechanic said:


> I'd use a pressed on crown race myself given the choice.
> 
> -R


So, what you're saying is that in my situation, you'd suggest leaving the press-on steel crown race on, even if it's not stock?

I've ridden the bike a couple times with this setup and it seems fine. The headset rotates smoothly and the crown race does not interfere with the rest of the headset.


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## Unemployed_mechanic (Apr 10, 2007)

No MSG said:


> If this were a loose-bearing setup, I wouldn't use anything other than the stock crown race, because the ball bearings roll directly on the crown race.
> 
> However, my bearings are encased in a cartridge, which essentially provides for the equivalent of an internal crown race. Thus, that lower-inside portion of the cartidge rests directly on the crown race and does not rotate on the crown race. In other words, the lower-inner section of the cartridge bearings simply need something stable to rest on.


Chris King calls that the "crown race" of their headsets a base plate to avoid confusion, I presume.


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## ampig (Mar 8, 2007)

I had two Ritchey Scuzzy Logic headsets and even their fork races were different.


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## Ardent (Dec 18, 2006)

Um to the best of my knowledge and Cane creek's website, the crown race on a zs headset is steel. From their website: "aluminum cups, replaceable stainless steel sealed cartridge bearings with neoprene bearing seals steel crown race with integrated rubber seal"

I just went and checked a ZS new in box - and it's steel alright.


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## No MSG (Nov 19, 2005)

*It's made by WTB.*



Ardent said:


> Um to the best of my knowledge and Cane creek's website, the crown race on a zs headset is steel. From their website: "aluminum cups, replaceable stainless steel sealed cartridge bearings with neoprene bearing seals steel crown race with integrated rubber seal"
> 
> I just went and checked a ZS new in box - and it's steel alright.


It's not a Cane Creek. It's made by WTB.


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## Ardent (Dec 18, 2006)

No MSG said:


> It's not a Cane Creek. It's made by WTB.


Ah - sorry. You said "Zerostack" which is cane creek's standard.


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