# Bar and Stem Length Trends for XC?



## 3forks (May 6, 2008)

Seems like there's a lot of discussion on the benefits of moving to wider bars and shorter stems for general riding but I haven't seen a lot of change in the XC scene.

I could be missing something, but it seems like the majority of any change in regards to bar and stem length was due mainly to the move towards 29er's and their geometry. People wanted to get lower on 29er's - but not a lot else changed.

Now 29er's are firmly established in the race scene but with the increase in 1x setups; the geometry of 29's is changing to make them nimbler and overall more responsive.

Do you guys see any trends in your local XC race scene or have you changed bar and stem lengths and found any real benefits you were missing before in terms of handling and stability without losing climbing efficiency?


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## sprocketjockey9 (Jul 18, 2006)

Wider bars.... I swapped from a 660mm the past 2 seasons to a 720 & 730mm this year. After spending some time on my enduro bike with 720 this past fall, I put a 720 right away on my ht & new bike came with 730. Really liking the extra leverage and just the handling capabilities overall. We don't have too many trails aligned with narrow trees out here in CO, so ride em' wide.

Stem lengths are just adjusted to the bikes to ensure proper fit. Other than shortening it up on my enduro bike, it's still pretty standard sizings


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## eness215 (Jul 22, 2010)

Definitely see most people running wider bars...including myself. In PA, we do have some trails where it gets a little tight, so I haven't gone wider than 710 though.

Haven't really noticed much change as far as stems. I run 110-115 on my bikes. I have short legs and a long torso, so on a large frame I need the extra top tube room. I would say most people I've seen have the same 100-110 stems that they've been running for years.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

I tried wider bars and went back to what I've always used - shoulder width. With bars much wider than that I feel like I'm driving a truck. I've never been too worried about what the latest trends are. 

Bar width I suppose is a preference but stem length is related to overall fit. Getting a real fitting done by someone qualified is highly recommended.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

zrm said:


> I tried wider bars and went back to what I've always used - shoulder width. With bars much wider than that I feel like I'm driving a truck. I've never been too worried about what the latest trends are.
> 
> Bar width I suppose is a preference but stem length is related to overall fit. Getting a real fitting done by someone qualified is highly recommended.


This!

For the OP, I seriously wouldn't worry about trends and what the kid next door is riding. I would worry more about skill and working on that no matter what bike or parts you are using.

That being said, if you ride tree lined tight singletrack - going wide with the bars and short with the stem may not be the trend an XC rider really wants to find themselves invovled in following.


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## evenslower (Sep 26, 2005)

Decided I was turning into a retro grouch a couple years ago so I forced myself to buy a plastic frame, 2x10, wide bar (700ish mm I think), 29er to prove to myself it wouldn't be any better. Didn't like the way the wide bars with a lot of sweep looked so swapped to my normal shoulder width straight/flats. Blew through turns on my home trails like nobody's business. Partially b/c I was going into them faster and partially b/c I couldn't get enough leverage on the bars to make it turn. 

Put the wide/more sweep bars back on with a longer stem to get into the right position and it just clicked. Might be the 29er wheel, might be the bikes geo or some combination but it just works. Like it so much my new custom steel frame geo mirrors that bike and has 710mm bars on it. 

I do think the bike industry (like many) tend to sell us one thing for a while then tell us that the other thing is the thing we can't live without, until we all have one, then we go back to the original thing, and so on and so on.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

I run 740mm bars on my XC HT... Run what u like...

The only reason I see wide bars being negative in XC races is if u have to squeeze between tight spaces between trees etc at speed.

Other than that, run what u like. 

Personally, I really enjoy the wider bars.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I'd been riding 590 mm bars. My new bike came with 660s, and I decided to leave them alone for a while and see if they grew on me.

They have. I feel a lot more stable. They're not going to be seeing a pipe cutter anytime soon.

My hardtail has even wider bars lately - got 'em from a coworker. 720 maybe? I don't have that bike quite dialed, but those are working pretty well for me too.

I think I haven't fundamentally changed my riding position, but I like having my hands further apart.


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## vizsladog (Mar 15, 2009)

700 bars with an 80mm stem


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## meyer378 (Apr 19, 2011)

I have been running 685 mm bars with a 90mm stem. I like the widers bars much more than the narrow bars I used to ride, but don't really know why. Ride some pretty tight trails and have never had any problems with bars at 685.


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

I like wider bars. I've found my sweet spot around 700mm.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

My XC (and only) bike came with 660 bars. I went to 710 last year and liked it a lot. Just recently moved to 800 and it seems to really nice too (super stiff bar). With each move up in width, I've shortened the stem. I now have a 60mm stem and it seems really nice. Time will tell.

I like having a wider cockpit. Feels more stable to me. I haven't run into the tight tree issue. Bike is rigid/geared...FYI.


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## Poncharelli (Jan 13, 2005)

Like other said: 

Stem is for bike fit. Handlebar width limited by tree separation distances in your area. 

I ride in Utah, which is pretty open, therefore very few issues with 700mm. I wouldn't want them wider anyway.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

700 with 90mm stem in central virginia.


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## letitsnow (May 23, 2006)

After being used to making motorized bikes turn in the woods, turning the bars on a light mountain bike seems easy. 

620mm bars with a 75mm stem on my Epic 29er here.


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## justwan naride (Oct 13, 2008)

I gradually moved from 620 to 700 to 740mm bars and from 100 to 80 to 60mm stem. Bike felt better with each change. At 165cm I'm quite short and ride pretty tight singletrack daily but bike control and fit are better than ever.
Bike is a 26" 100mm ht with classic xc geo. The new cockpit makes it feel like a new bike and has improved handling in every aspect of riding,esp. turns, out of the saddle pedaling and control on the rough.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

66mm Syntace Flatforce stem, 740mm Syntace Vector Carbon -10mm bar.

16" Carbon HT 29er.

I've used them with great success, or so Strava tells me, in NY, VA, IL, CO and UT.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

For those who pay attention to such things, what's the trend on the World Cup circuit? I see some riser bars but am curious if they are being paired with short(er) stems or not.

I have to admit, I'm on the Thomson flat bar (730mm), and I just swapped a 100mm stem for a 110mm to try out today because I feel very "knees in the bars" when standing and climbing. It's also hard to weight the front wheel when riding out of the saddle (which I do a lot when climbing).

I'm on a Santa Cruz Blur Xc Carbon with 27.5" wheels. Large frame, 5'10". Wondering if: a) the wide bars plus long-ish stem will make it handle like a barge (the short wheelbase notwitstanding, and b) maybe the short-ish top tube length (24") for a large SC frame might be the issue.

Is it accepted that it's wide bars OR long stem, and mixing the two will suck? Just curious.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

well go figure

20 years ago I had a very flat and long 150mm stem...I laid low low low over the bars and didn't think I was missing anything. roadie on an MTB is how flat my back was

10 years ago I was convinced by others I needed a shorter stem and a little wider bars, so I tried it. hated the wide bars but stuck with the shorter and higher stem, and i sat a bit more upright. oh yeah downhills are suddenly a bit easier so I think great !

5 years ago my first experience with back strain slowing me down and taking the fun out of the tail end of long rides (30 miles or more) and started trying all sorts of crap to fix my back...am I just getting older ? wtf....

well, recently I just dumped my stem and went old school. long, low, flat and 150mm, laid way out over the front like days of old....back problems evaporated

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tl;dr use what YOU like and just 'run what ya brung', and if it doesn't make you happy, experiment. blindly following a 'trend' may lead to a dead end. in my case shorter stems and a bit more upright didn't work. If I had started out that way things might be different...but my body is now 'molded' to certain preferences


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> 66mm Syntace Flatforce stem,


How do you like that stem? Do you have any pictures of your setup?

I'm thinking about getting one of those for my wife's bike.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I use a 66mm Flatforce with 710mm Niner RDO bars. I really like the setup. I went from a -6 80mm 3t to the Flatforce. I really like the way the bike handles. I initially thought being lower on the front was going to affect me on steepish drops...but so far its been good. The best part is on climbs...the front end is no longer squirrel-ly.


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## LaMar (Jun 1, 2007)

I've been thinking about moving to a shorter stem and wider bars. I run a 110 stem and 580mm flat bar. I just recently read this post from Gene Hamilton.

BetterRide Mountain Bike Skills Tips

Seems like going to wider bars and shorter stem could help bike handling a bit... Something I could definitely improve on.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

29er, 26? 

I ride several bikes. Short stem, long bar yes with 26 Enduro/AM, 29 HT (=race bike) but no with 26 HT (commuter and winter bike ... my commute is on very technical trails ... I'm blessed, I know ;-) )


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## LaMar (Jun 1, 2007)

It's a 26 (Scott Genius RC 10). I just double checked and my stem is actually 120mm. I would mostly love to try some wider bars but, it seems if you go wider on the bars then a shorter stem would be needed for a more agile feel and fit.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

That's the Kabush challenge he threw down back in 2010. Put a 685mm bar and a shorter stem on your XC bike and ride it a lot over two weeks before even thinking of trimming the bar width. It ruined me, I'm up to 700mm wide bars now and there are days it feels narrow.



LaMar said:


> It's a 26 (Scott Genius RC 10). I just double checked and my stem is actually 120mm. I would mostly love to try some wider bars but, it seems if you go wider on the bars then a shorter stem would be needed for a more agile feel and fit.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

LaMar said:


> It's a 26 (Scott Genius RC 10). I just double checked and my stem is actually 120mm. I would mostly love to try some wider bars but, it seems if you go wider on the bars then a shorter stem would be needed for a more agile feel and fit.


That's right. Luckily, stems are a $15 part. If you have to have something fancy, wait until you've figured out your new stem length.

I don't think my nice bike has 685, but should measure. I think it's 665. Certainly more than the 590 I had previously. I decided to try it for a while before cutting, and I'm a convert.

For me, it hasn't really affected my riding position. But I do feel a lot more stable, and I think that bears out in how often I have to put a foot down. So I think it's real.


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## LaMar (Jun 1, 2007)

Is there a general rule for how short your stem should be based on bar width? Or is it just what ever feels right? I assume it's different for everybody...


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

As a starting point, if you add 25mm of bar width you can shorten the stem by about 10mm, but it depends a lot on the bar sweep. If your wider bar has a lot more sweep, that will affect it. 

A lot of bike shops have a range of stem lengths for fitting, so if you go to a shop to buy the bars you might be able to get them to try a range of stem sizes if you're going to buy a stem from them as well.


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## LaMar (Jun 1, 2007)

Cool, Thanks! I'm gonna give it a go. I'm willing to try anything that will improve my bike handling.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

I went from 585 bars an 120 mm stem to a 660 mm bars and 100 mm stem. I I really like the change, but it did take some getting used to. The biggest benefit was that the front end was not as sensitive to being knocked off line from rocks. The wider bars give me more leverage to keep the bars straight when I hit minor bumps. That makes the bike more stable. The downside was the bike was slower to turn for a while. I have however gotten used to that and the bike feels as lively as ever. I might try wider still, but that will happen probably later this summer.


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## LaMar (Jun 1, 2007)

JoePAz said:


> I went from 585 bars an 120 mm stem to a 660 mm bars and 100 mm stem. I I really like the change, but it did take some getting used to. The biggest benefit was that the front end was not as sensitive to being knocked off line from rocks. The wider bars give me more leverage to keep the bars straight when I hit minor bumps. That makes the bike more stable. The downside was the bike was slower to turn for a while. I have however gotten used to that and the bike feels as lively as ever. I might try wider still, but that will happen probably later this summer.


You think a shorter stem would make it feel easier to turn? I'm thinking about jumping to a 700mm bar and 60mm stem. Not sure if that's too big of a jump though.


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## KTMwoodsrider (Dec 1, 2012)

LaMar said:


> You think a shorter stem would make it feel easier to turn? I'm thinking about jumping to a 700mm bar and 60mm stem. Not sure if that's too big of a jump though.


I believe a shorter stem make the bike feel more nimble in turns but not as planted on fast sections. A longer stem makes it more planted/stable on fast sections but a little more sluggish in turning. I like the wider bars on my bike. 730mm to 760mm for xc riding. Everybody is different on what feels good though.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Pro Bike: Geoff Kabush's Detailed Scott Spark - CyclingDirt

Kabush is on 740's this year w/ a 100mm stem. I'm similar in height and find a 90mm with 700 lo rise bars to be perfect on my xl superfly.


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## vizsladog (Mar 15, 2009)

any thought on the length of a steeper angle stem?? I have a 80mm -7 stem with 700 wide bar but to get the feel I want I have to let out air of the front tire. so I end up with like 22 psi in the front and 28 in the rear. 

I was given a 100mm -17 stem to try but am scared of the extra length of the stem.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The thing to watch with steeply inverted stems is the potential collisions between the bars/levers and top tube. Steeply angled stems also have less reach for the same stem length, so it is likely about like a shallower rise 90mm stem. The stem length is measured along the angle of rise.


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## vizsladog (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks. Is that your bike in the picture?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I went with the Kulhavy fit: -16* 120mm stem, Enve flat bar cut to 670mm. I'm tall though.

Before that I tried 700mm riser and a 90mm stem and liked it, but I needed the lower position over the wheel in the very tight, twisty, low-elevation trails in my state. Even with the bars cut, I still knocked off the bar tips two or three times in series races last year, but I won


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

vizsladog said:


> Thanks. Is that your bike in the picture?


That's Marie-Helene Premont's hardtail at the 2012 Mont Sainte Anne race. She's only 5'-4".


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## fongster (Dec 5, 2011)

I love my wider bar and shorter stem (710 x 70) as steering is slowed down and more stable like a bus steering wheel. I feel I have better control over loose or rutted ground. My old bike had a 685 x 90 and that felt wide at first. After a couple weeks, I loved it, too.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

LaMar said:


> I've been thinking about moving to a shorter stem and wider bars. I run a 110 stem and 580mm flat bar. I just recently read this post from Gene Hamilton.
> 
> BetterRide Mountain Bike Skills Tips
> 
> Seems like going to wider bars and shorter stem could help bike handling a bit... Something I could definitely improve on.


I just took this clinic in Tulsa. There are definite reasons behind this and once we learned the proper technique, longer bars and shorter stem just made sense. I now run 785mm bars with a 40mm stem and I will never go back. Its the difference between steering a bus and steering a race car.


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## canuck_tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Going from a 29r to a 27.5 I feel that I need to shorten my stem a bit for descending. THe 29r really makes you feel further back behind the wheel, running a longer stem was fine. The 27.5 feels less secure with the same setup. 

Currently I'm running 90mm with a 710 bar and have been thinking of going to a 70mm stem with a 710 bar.

I'm fairly new to XC racing; does being a bit more upright decrease pedaling efficiency?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Depend how you're used to pedaling. I find I can spin and stomp better leaned over, but have more control being more upright.


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## canuck_tacoma (May 1, 2011)

On my Road Bike I do get really long and low when hammering hard....but on technical XC courses that would be a nightmare. I'm going to try the 70mm stem and see how it goes. Can always switch it back.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

In a good riding position, the torque from gravity acting on your torso and the torque you generate with your feet against the pedals should be pretty close to equal and opposite. You shouldn't have any weight on your hands, but you shouldn't have to haul back or up on the bars either.

If you think you might be happier with a shorter stem, try it. If you find it messes with your pedaling efficiency, try an 80, or tweak the height.

Especially for something as dynamic as MTB, this takes some trial and error. If you go with what feels right, you most likely will be right.


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## canuck_tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Did 3 loops with lots of climbs and some good descents; with a 70, 80, and 90mm stem. 

70mm was way too short, changed the bike completely. 80mm actually felt quite good. I'll give it a try and maybe switch back to the 90 after awhile and see how it feels.

I'm a little surprised how much 10mm changed the feel of this bike.


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## serious (Jan 25, 2005)

I have been riding/racing a 29ers forever and always used 600-620mm bars (I am 5'6"). I do feel that on my Lynskey the setup provides very sharp handling, especially now that I am on front suspension with a bit of sag. On my geared Superfly the G2 geometry makes handling very slow, but nice when descending. 

Recently I bought a new geared 29er to race next year (this year I raced Ontario Cup Series on my singlespeed in a geared category). It is a 2014 KHS Team 29 and it came with 710mm bars. And I noticed that all new 29ers come with huge bars. WTF?

But before cutting the bar I decided to give it a shot. Damn it, I loved it. In fact, it was so comfortable that when going back to the single speed with the narrow bars, it felt downright weird, despite the fact that I did lots of 8 hour solos on this setup. 

So I think I shall leave the bar alone and probably put a wider (700mm) bar on the singlespeed for next year. I guess I am a convert. Who knew?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

^^^
I had a similar experience when I bought a new bike last year. Go figure.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

-16* 120mm Ritchey stem, Enve flat bar cut to 670mm gets me through the tightest trails. 1st in Lake Degray Xterra Sprint distance MTB (last in the swim though, lol), October 18th.


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## serious (Jan 25, 2005)

After having such a good experience with the 710mm bar that came with my new geared bike, I decided to put a 710mm bar (Niner RDO flattop) on my single speed bike. 

Unbelievable how much I loved it. I now have about 8 hours of riding on wider bars and I cannot imagine going back to my 600-620mm bars. I am so disappointed in myself for staying with narrow bars for so many years.


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## justwan naride (Oct 13, 2008)

Resistance is futile - the future is short and wide! 

Seriously though, I can't imagine why anyone would ride narrower than 700mm off road. Many gains with zero losses. Even on super narrow singletrack the extra precision wide bars offer outbalance any disadvantages.


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## jlundin (Sep 28, 2014)

Stem length is highly personal and depends on the bike you ride. I have two cross country bikes, a 29 and 26. The 26 is a medium frame with a 90mm stem and the 29er is a large frame with a 40mm stem. They are both very comfortable set up that way and I have tried several different stem sizes. Best thing to do is see if your LBS will let you try some stem sizes out. The bars on each are 710mm, but the bars feel noticeable wider on the 26.


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## dracazan (Sep 29, 2014)

27.5in bar
90mm stem

not that nimble on xc course but good on flat road cement and asphalt because of less aeroresistance 


i need wider bars.. i mean WIDER BARS for leverage on climbs


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## trickten (Sep 3, 2004)

On my Epic, I run a 685mm bar with a 70mm stem. Personally I believe I should run something longer as the front wheel wanders a bit on long climbs.


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## donR (11 mo ago)

Just putting a build kit together for my nex XC bike so checking on handle bar length trends. Might post it up later if anyone is interested.

I notice this thread hadn't been updated for a while but my research suggests 700mm is now the minimum for XC.

I notice in 2021 Nino Schurter was still running 680mm but this year with the new Spark he is using 700mm bars and 90mm stem.

I am an older guy that ran a 520mm bar with a 90mm stem back in the early 2000s. For my new XC bike I bought a couple of years ago I settled for 650mm and 70mm stem as it was a big jump from what I was used to and I have some narrow trails in my area.

On my new build I have 700mm bars so will try them as is before tempting to cut them down. I still have my 520mm bar XC bike for riding to work and with the wider bar my new bike certainly more stable on the trails. If we only knew all these things back then!

I'd be interested to hear from others what the 2022 trend is for XC bar width and stem length.

PS. Maybe also mention your height as I think that can make a difference also although I understand torsos and arm length can vary. I am 5'9.5" or at least used to be!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I've got 720/740/750 with the same rise and sweep on 3 bikes and prefer the 750's.
But I also run 85-90mm stems...


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

750/90 and just right on my XL Supercaliber.

I'm 6'2" and would say I have a medium-wide chest/shoulders.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

I’m 6’1” on a Large Spark RC with 720mm bars (80mm stem) for the past 4 years. I’m at the edge of the grips and probably need/like 740mm. I have a 740mm on backorder since last year.


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## joebusby (Aug 13, 2007)

Just picked up a 70/750 -17 bontrager rsl integrated for half price new. That sounds like it'll be ideal for my super long NS synonym (500 each in large)


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

760 bars and 65mm stem. 6'2" with wide shoulders on an XL Santa Cruz Blur Trail (last gen).


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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

5'6 rider.
710mm bar. Either 12 degree sweep with 60mm stem or 16 degree sweep with 70mm stem. I still haven't decide which one I like more.
They have pros and cons on different scenario. 16 degree sweep bar with longer stem feels more comfortable on flat straight.
But I feel like I corner and descend better with 12 degree sweep bar and shorter stem.


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## YamaLink (Jun 23, 2010)

5'10", slightly wide shoulders, 2020 Spark RC size large, pretty flexible this year with strong core.

Last week was 80mm +7 stem with about 25mm spacers and 760 bar (think 9d sweep, whatever is mainstream for flat bar). Somewhat aggressive position. This week put on 20mm longer travel fork so tried 70mm +7 stem and dropped it 25mm. Sure felt good warming up, very powerful leg feeling. After several hours thinking the overshooting of corners/understeering was just new geometry and emergency braking on fast sweepers I put the 80mm back on and took out maybe 12mm-ish spacers, played with 3mm give or take. Muuuuuuch better. Tweaked saddle tilt, and now it's like the 100mm front end, but a lot more laterally stiff and a just a bit more xc plow.
Have 60 to 90mm stems in garage, and tried all with different rise bars, angles, and spacers. And now fork. The 80 +7 always goes back on.


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