# Daft Ideas dept strikes again



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hello here we go again This may have been used by someone before but I have not seen anyone use this .

My brother trashed a wheel only a cheap one and it was cheaper to buy a new one than repair it so I took it and stripped everything off the hub just to see really.
when you knock the ball bearing races out you are left with a nearly ready made light housing. or even 2 .

here are some pics with the obligatory ruler


















the hole down the middle is 19.5mm dia
where the bearing cups were it flares out to 24 mm dia
the outside diameter is 25 mm
so that meand a wall thickness of nearly 3 mm 
the outside diameter of the flared end is 30 mm

so I am sure that with some imagination and a little work you could have 2 cool lightweight lights it is shouting 20mm optics and MCE to me.

and most people have a scrapped wheel lying around or I am sure a bike shop would give you one


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Excellent!!!

I am really liking all the recycling ideas popping up, the front der as a bar mount is great too. I have made a tail light from the cut off from my fox steer tube and its a tank, now I have my eyes on an easton CT2 carbon fiber handle bar I took out of service due to one little crack, I already cut it with a 32tooth per inch hack saw blade and it cut nice and straight with no splintered edges, will make a cool tail light. I have a trashed super light ti /alu hub I can use for my future mc-e project now that I think about it, not as small as 3/4'' alu tubing but really light for its size since the TI section in the center is so thin and probably better cooling any how.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*update and the clamp thread revisited*

Just been messing about and come up with this , OK i did use the lathe to remove the spoke flange but it would have been easy with a hacksaw and file .

I had a previous thread where I suggested using a front mech clamp for a light bracket 
so bring the 2 together and Voila a simple recycled light and clamp .

I know not all hube are the same but I am guessing that they will use the same bearing races which just knock out with a hammer and punch.

The diameters are such that you could use a 26.5mm carclo optic and an mce on a 20 mm star. it would need a 20 mm ali or copper slug to fit inside for the leds .

There would be a small ammount of filing or dremeling and just about enough room for a maxflex


























Yes it is a new ruler too a freebee when I bought a chuck for the lathe


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> The diameters are such that you could use a 26.5mm carclo optic and an mce on a 20 mm star. it would need a 20 mm ali or copper slug to fit inside for the leds .


FYI - the Carclo 26,mm optic holder has a 29mm +/- 0,2mm OD.

Great idea btw!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

langen said:


> FYI - the Carclo 26,mm optic holder has a 29mm +/- 0,2mm OD.
> 
> Great idea btw!


Good point langen and I always intended to use the optic without holder to get the diameter of the housing down .
also I am not sure how the holder will sit with any link wires for wiring the MCE in series

I normaly glue the optic in the light with rtv silicon


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

From what I´ve seen the 26,5mm holder has 4 legs that goes into 4 of the 6 "holes" in a star-board. Leaving 2 holes opposite each other with no legs in them, and plenty of space around the solder-pads.

How can you be sure you position the optic 100% correct in relation to the LED if you don´t use a holder?


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## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

Hardly daft, I think that is awesome! Sadly, I don't think I have any old hubs kicking around, they are all in use. Too bad...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*not so Daft after all*

Half an hour with a saw and file later and here it is on the bike .
this has turned out into a cool idea and I will be visiting my local bike shop to scrounge a couple more hubs and trashed front mechs


































here is a comparison with the cutter mr11 triple and this I thought was a small light.
so with 1 MCE it should perform better even at half power.

so if you are like me and dont chuck anything out you should have a cheap light and bar mount sitting in your shed

Oh and that bor clamp is so slick nearly invisible


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

Troutie strikes gold again :aureola: well done mate


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Troutie you have some serious issues with obsession but please don't seek help, the result is pure genius yet again.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

Ok so give it up, whats the weight of bracket and housing?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Troutie you have some serious issues with obsession but please don't seek help, the result is pure genius yet again.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
> 
> Ok so give it up, whats the weight of bracket and housing?


I know sad aint it must be the british bulldog in me.
Biking and making things are my hobbys so it is sort of a different challenge and yep I can make a kick ass light from ali bar with my tools but the challenge is the diy approach and to do it like everyone else with the basic tools and materials available all

But this concept must be my best yet cos I have not stolen any ideas from others and reused 2 items that would be on the scrapheap .

weights prepare to be shocked.

the complete light on the other side of the bars










the bare recycle light and clamp









a bare housing mr11 and bflex size + clamp










the recycle light with ali added for slug and endcap / led on star / optic and holder to simulate a complete light but forgot the bflex so just weighed one so add 4 gms










Smudge ta mate for the gold in the light olympics


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Well done Troutie!!!! Pure genius!

That is it, I am off to the bike shop to look for broken mechs tomorrow.


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

Super Nice Idea!!!! You can also pick up just the der clamps at any bike shop for just a couple of bucks.... they are the ones that are used for road bikes that do not have the braze-on for the front der.... can get them in tons of different sizes too!!

OK... so now i have a problem... I have two Chris king hubshells sitting in my junk box that are non-disc so I will probably never use them... and the rear one looks like it will be the right size for an MR11 triple optic, or maybe a P7 big reflecter or triple light... but I don't think I have the stones to cut up a Chris king part!!!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

tamen00 said:


> Super Nice Idea!!!! You can also pick up just the der clamps at any bike shop for just a couple of bucks.... they are the ones that are used for road bikes that do not have the braze-on for the front der.... can get them in tons of different sizes too!!
> 
> OK... so now i have a problem... I have two Chris king hubshells sitting in my junk box that are non-disc so I will probably never use them... and the rear one looks like it will be the right size for an MR11 triple optic, or maybe a P7 big reflecter or triple light... but I don't think I have the stones to cut up a Chris king part!!!


Fantastic be brave and carefully dismantle it and have a measure up and see what will fit in that would be a cool light and it will be anodised I think .

better to be used than sit in a junk box for the rest of its life

the rear for a bar light and the front for a matching helmet light


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Well done Troutie!!!! Pure genius!
> 
> That is it, I am off to the bike shop to look for broken mechs tomorrow.


O B S as soon as I read this thread last night I sent a mate that just happens to work in a bike shop an email asking for said parts. It's just such a pure and simple design not to use. I might leave the outer spoke circle on to increase cooling area, I guess it can always be taken off later and at the weights shown on Trouties scales its still going to be a lite light.


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

Troutie,

 Now thats trick....only problem is that I've just completed my dyno light http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4457460&page=3 and now you have me wanting to build another :madman: ....as this set up would be perfect for a MCE dyno light


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

dazzat3 said:


> Troutie,
> 
> Now thats trick....only problem is that I've just completed my dyno light http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4457460&page=3 and now you have me wanting to build another :madman: ....as this set up would be perfect for a MCE dyno light


 yes and an awesome light it is too put that one on the mtb and do an ultra lite light for the roady bike


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

Hi, incredible, what imagination   

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> yes and an awesome light it is too put that one on the mtb and do an ultra lite light for the roady bike


Just when I thought I was over being a Lumen drug whore you've got me hooked again with this ultra lite.:arf: :arf: :arf:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

dazzat3 said:


> Just when I thought I was over being a Lumen drug whore you've got me hooked again with this ultra lite.:arf: :arf: :arf:


:smilewinkgrin: Ha Ha we cant let you stop when you have finished a light :lol::lol:

Just a little pointer to anyone doing a build like this check the inside faces of the mech clamp some have little nobbles that need filing off so they do not dig in to the bars.

 I wonder how many people now look at everyday objects and think bike light

I do have some other crackpot ideas I may divulge later :crazy:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> O B S as soon as I read this thread last night I sent a mate that just happens to work in a bike shop an email asking for said parts. It's just such a pure and simple design not to use. I might leave the outer spoke circle on to increase cooling area, I guess it can always be taken off later and at the weights shown on Trouties scales its still going to be a lite light.


Just a thought emu26 the spoke flange might be easier to adapt to mount to the mech clamp
and you could put some 3 mm leds in the holes for a to be seen light when commuting


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*How many spoke holes?*



troutie-mtb said:


> Just a thought emu26 the spoke flange might be easier to adapt to mount to the mech clamp
> and you could put some 3 mm leds in the holes for a to be seen light when commuting


Well, you could put 10 of them in and use this driver for that set of LEDs https://www.constant-current.com/html/light-sequencer.html










If you add in another 1-2 and fill all the spoke holes...

Disco Stu would say "that's cool"


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*nice. I like the clamp*

Are you counting on the heat dissipating through the clamp/handle bar? To bad my bar is carbon


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Brainstorm*



troutie-mtb said:


> I wonder how many people now look at everyday objects and think bike light
> 
> I do have some other crackpot ideas I may divulge later :crazy:


If you figure out how I can modify patched/re-patched/re-re-patched/re-re-re-re-patched tubes that then have the valve stem fall off into a light, could you let me know.










I had these guys wired into a coat rack at one time









I'll probably re-purpose one of the Marzocchi lowers into a tap handle.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

notaknob said:


> If you figure out how I can modify patched/re-patched/re-re-patched/re-re-re-re-patched tubes that then have the valve stem fall off into a light, could you let me know.


Now come on bruce you are being a bit silly  because you have lost the valve stem and that is the light with an XP-E led inside


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Just a thought emu26 the spoke flange might be easier to adapt to mount to the mech clamp
> and you could put some 3 mm leds in the holes for a to be seen light when commuting


Nice idea with the 3mm leds but for commutting, eeewwwww. Isn't that something "scummers" do wearing lycra?

Maybe I could use them to house the low bat indicator led that George has designed as an option


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

notaknob said:


> Well, you could put 10 of them in and use this driver for that set of LEDs https://www.constant-current.com/html/light-sequencer.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's cool but how did you know my name is Stuart and I am old enough to know how to disco?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Not sure How daft this one is*

It would seem that when using an optic that there are quite a few lumens 
just bouncing around inside the housing with nowhere to go .

now lets say you made your housing with the bottom half at the front clear then these imprisoned lumens could then escape and light the trail just down by your front wheel

and if the inside of the top half was polished that may reflect a few more lumens downwards.

Are there enough imprisoned lumens to make a difference with a mass breakout .


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah troutie theres enough to give some spill around the front wheel and of course out the sides is good for keeping the cagers away on the road.
Optics are around 85% efficient.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Troutie, how are you attaching the derailleur clamp to the light housing? I can't see from the pics. Thanks in advance.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Andy13 said:


> Troutie, how are you attaching the derailleur clamp to the light housing? I can't see from the pics. Thanks in advance.


Ha Good question Andy13 it was just stuck on with glue to hold it while I took the photos 
this project never got finished as I got the lathe and started playing with that .

I am hoping some one out there has maybe recycled the same bits and done a light from them .


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Not to rain on the trout parade (there's an amusing mental image!  but I found this thread tonight while I was up way too late browsing the light threads. Looks like a Shimano 6-bolt disc hub with the the spoke flange removed on a lathe.

Nonetheless, both Mr.Trout and the Crazed Canuck have separately come up with a brilliant idea for a nice _and_ cheap housing that will fit a variety of LED/optic combinations. I'll certainly be giving this a try myself this winter.

JZ


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*I think this probably belongs here*

:idea:This probably belongs in the daft ideas dept .:idea:

Not sure really where to start on this one so I will start with a couple of beamshots on the ceiling as it is not in any state to take outside yet .and this is to see if the concept will work .

This is not my idea just another one I have nicked

3 Q5 leds and I have underexposed the pics to see the shape of the beam .


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

That is a excellent elliptical beam! 
it is very similar to this £80 bosch ralley 225.









What lenses did you use?


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> 3 Q5 leds and I have underexposed the pics to see the shape of the beam .


Good one Troutie. A nice elliptical beam. In fact it's not such a daft idea at all.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Ok, I give up... how did you do it? Was it a squashed reflector or something?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*McTroutlite is its name McTroutlens is the game*

Ok after a bit of fettleing in the freezing garage I have managed to get some beam shots in my small garden .

The first shots are 3 Q5 leds the power is not relevant at this moment it is the beam shape I am wanting to try and get . 
Lo and Hi 
then the light rotated 90 degrees



































the next 4 are a single MCE behind the McTroutlens 
again the last 2 are rotated 90 degrees

Now these optics are a rushed put together job and when you see them you will be amazed I hope .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*On to the hardware*

Here are the hardware pics for the beamshots .

But first I would like to say thank you to McGizmo over on CPF for allowing me to steal his concept , as he has not completed it I do not feel as bad and might be able to contribute the odd idea to his project.

McGizmos Idea

I will let the pictures do the talking .


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

That thing is really something extra! Im amazed you got that perfect elliptical beam from a home machined lens. Good work. (as always)
I had missed the McGizmo on CPF, but it seems perfect for a floody headlamp I'm planning to build.


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

McTroutie, that's wonderful, mate. What's more, I reckon if you could drop some red XP-Es in there you'd have the ultimate taillight weapon.


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

WOW...that's a really good spread! You never cease to amaze Mr Troutie.

I dunno, can't be bothered to wait for someone who knows what they're doing to produce optics that you have to go and do something brilliant all on your own


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

hootsmon said:


> McTroutie, that's wonderful, mate. What's more, I reckon if you could drop some red XP-Es in there you'd have the ultimate taillight weapon.


Yes Hoots I did think it would make an awesome rear light too.

Gillistugen Yes I am amazed how the beam is from this .
I have a few other ideas to test with this and then to build a proper light with it

Might even put in a zoom facility as if you move the McLens out the beam gets thinner .

Thanks Deesta . one of your housings with the zoom adjuster and 6 xpe R2s 
and this would be a pretty good light .

Damn I do enjoy messing about with stuff .


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

thought you were about to put youre feet up a few weeks ago? good job you didnt troutie, 
To think the major bike light manufacturers are paying mega $$ for someone doing half what you have done in bikelight prototypes and testing.


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## mdsjack (Oct 26, 2007)

troutie, that's EXACTLY what I need to achieve with my first diy light.
could you please tell me what kind of plastic rod is that exactly and where did you find it?

great job!!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Smudge. 
Yes I did say that didnt I I need some drugs to stop the dreaming up of ideas.

Mdsjack .
This is the stuff HERE


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

just an idea here to run by you all .

with this concept of a bar lense would it be feasable to put another row of leds either above of below the centre line and have them switchable for a dipped beam


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Yes I did say that didnt I I need some drugs to stop the dreaming up of ideas.


Maybe you do need drugs. haha
You sure have had a few creative dreams. Just make sure you don't go from creative dreams to sleepless. (posting in a forum late in the night is normal, but to then post this early in the morning is...)


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## mdsjack (Oct 26, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Mdsjack .
> This is the stuff HERE


Thanks, that might be useful in future.
Unfortunately they don't seem to ship to Italy... I would be cool if you could send me a piece of rod, via standard postal shipment, if you have more than you need. (I'd send you the money via paypal)

I just don't understand how could you cut the rod in half with such a clear result... Did you have it cutted from a factory?
Which diameter is that? 20mm?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

mdsjack said:


> Thanks, that might be useful in future.
> Unfortunately they don't seem to ship to Italy... I would be cool if you could send me a piece of rod, via standard postal shipment, if you have more than you need. (I'd send you the money via paypal)
> 
> I just don't understand how could you cut the rod in half with such a clear result... Did you have it cutted from a factory?
> Which diameter is that? 20mm?


It is really easy to polish when you have cut it the hardest is cutting it down the middle.

then flatten it on some sandpaper and then some really fine wet and dry works great

yes it is 20 mm dia
I have ordered a lump of 30 mm also

I can send you a piece PM me your address and I will get a price for postage .


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## mdsjack (Oct 26, 2007)

I've never really tried polishing plexiglas, but I know sand paper is too rough to give a smooth result...
what do you mean exactly by "wet and dry"?

I'll pm you right away.


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

I have sometimes used an angle grinder to cut acrylic plastic sheets. It kind of both melts and cuts its way through. Works great, but you will "lose" about 4mm of the material.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

mdsjack said:


> I've never really tried polishing plexiglas, but I know sand paper is too rough to give a smooth result...
> what do you mean exactly by "wet and dry"?
> 
> I'll pm you right away.


Plastic materials suppliers sell repair or polishing kits that use wet or dry sandpaper down to 6000-12000 grit and than move on to liquid polishes. A little elbow grease gets very good results.

Many glass companies also sell acrylic sheet, rods and supplies.

Band saws, table saws, hacksaw, etc. can all be used for cutting plastics. You always have to be careful not to melt the piece.

edit: Here's a link to polishing kits as an example.....http://www.sisweb.com/micromesh/acrylic_plastic_hand_kits.htm

It appears pet stores carry THIS version.


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## mdsjack (Oct 26, 2007)

pet stores? do you mean animal stores? or PolyEthylene Terephthalate???
sorry if the question sounds silly but you may not know that in italy it's extremely hard to find electronic/mechanic components or materials for final consumers to buy.

If you go to the local electronics shop (only a few, nowadays) you'll barely find the classic 3 position lever switch. Don't try to ask them thermally conductive paste or glue. They won't know what you're talking about.
Aluminium / Copper are barely impossible to buy in non industrial quantities, not to mention plexiglas. Luckily you can find small factories/labs where you can ask for off-cuts, but it's not common.
For example: open Cutter or Maplin or RS websites, you'll find 0,1% of their products in local shops, only the most common.

It's a pity because there are lot of hobbyists in italy, from radio-amateurs, to diy "inventors" and such.

So talking about those products makes little sense, for Italy. Reading this forum I wonder where the heck do you find all those stuff, material, components. There aren't even scrapyards, anymore here... I'm having a hard time finding something nice to turn my ideas for a led set into reality.

:|


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

mdsjack said:


> pet stores? do you mean animal stores?:|


Yes, did you try the link? Pet stores carry a kit to repair scratches in acrylic aquariums.

Aircraft suppliers have the kits to repair windshields.

I don't think I could stand your supply situation in Italy. Every big city in the US has suppliers for just about everything. You will have to rely on the internet. Good luck.


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## mdsjack (Oct 26, 2007)

I did read, but couldn't find any reference to pet stores. Maybe I just read too quickly.
I'll try there.

Relying on the Net is exactly what I'm doing. I've gathered parts from ebay, dx, luxeonstar, etc... but to keep costs low I've opted for postal shipping. let's see if the stuff from the US or from hong kong gets here  
If someone opened a reseller shop of e.g. Maplin stuff here would make a lot of money, I guess. I wonder why no one has tried, yet.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I first hacksaw it carefully down the middle and then sand it down with a course grit emery paper . I have a piece of granite worktop keeps the sandpaper flat 
then finer grit wet and dry . it is what car body repairers use for smoothing repairs out .

then I have used metal polish for the final polish . I have cheated by using a dremel polisher in my mini mill .


















I have been making a test rig to try and get the best beam

I have recycled some old q5s .for this from a couple of quad lights that blew a led so removed the good ones from the pcbs and stuck them to a block of ali
the driver is in the adapter for my drill battery .


























Early findings are that the optic needs to be as close to the led emitters as possible
if I move it away then the beem narrows .
so the best beam is when it is sat right on the domes . if I was brave I would remove the domes and sit it right down close .

I do believe some of the torch folk used to do that with the aspheric lenses .


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

Troutie, Perhaps see what happens when you recess the LEDs in the perspex. It would be interesting to see what happens if you get the perspex to sit flush with the aluminium block with the LEDs sitting "inside" the perspex.

Tim


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Plus one for Wombat's suggestion. With my MkII taillight, I'm drilling recesses into the polycarbonate so the (red) LEDs are fully embedded. And as a mad-scientist experiment I'm going to try gluing the LEDs into the polycarbonate, in order to get an optically clear light path.

Incidentally, don't try this at home folks, as I'm unsure if gluing will work. I'll probably try it on just one LED first. And I'm only considering it because my taillight uses 3x el-cheapo 5mm red LEDS, so if I destroy one then its no great loss. Also, I wouldn't use regular epoxy glue, as I don't think it gives a clear joint on epoxy. For gluing polycarbonate I've had best results with Selley's Plastics Glue, followed by OK results with a solvent-glue called Tarzan's Grip.

Oh, and thanks Troutie for the good explanation of polishing methods.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

For a truly optically clear epoxy, try Epoxy 330. It is available through jewelry maker suppliers and craft shops.

I have no idea if epoxies will hold up to the heat of LED's but I/we would love for you to experiment for us all.

A google search will turn up page after page of suppliers from all over the world.


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## mdsjack (Oct 26, 2007)

do you think this glue is ok to use with leds?
http://www.bostik.it/p/plus-5-minuti-uhu-76-p.htm

it says "bi-component epoxy glue" for metal, glass, concrete, stone, wood, pvc plastic, rubber and misc synt&hard materials.

it's the only one I could find. I don't know if all epoxy glues are electrically isolating and thermally conductive as the AA you are using.


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

mdsjack said:


> do you think this glue is ok to use with leds?
> http://www.bostik.it/p/plus-5-minuti-uhu-76-p.htm
> 
> it says "bi-component epoxy glue" for metal, glass, concrete, stone, wood, pvc plastic, rubber and misc synt&hard materials.
> ...


Most epoxies are somewhat opaque in my experience, so it would be worth searching out something like the recommended one. They should all be electrically isolating, unless loaded with metal for thermal conductivity. 5mm LEDs will produce little or no heat at their power levels, so I wouldn't worry about thermal conductivity.

[Edit] For those in the UK, there is something called Devcon epoxy glue available. Here's some on Ebay

Neil.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Troutlens in the making*



Wombat said:


> Troutie, Perhaps see what happens when you recess the LEDs in the perspex. It would be interesting to see what happens if you get the perspex to sit flush with the aluminium block with the LEDs sitting "inside" the perspex.
> 
> Tim


Yes I will try that one later .

But I have a bit more exciting things happening today. and boy have I had a fun afternoon
in a diy freezing shed way . .

After the experiments with the bar lens and I have not finished with that one yet 
but I got to looking at the acrylic bar I had and the lathe and put them together I thought I would have a bash at making an optic for the MCE

I wanted it to have a convex front as a follow up to what I had learnt with the bar lens 
but did not know how to machine the curve , but this is when Trout is at his most dangerous, it becomes bodge time .










looking round the shed I spotted a craft knife with a convex blade so it was bodged in to the lathe and 5 mins later I had the lens front , nothing scientific just suck it and see.

I had seen somewhere that you can polish the acrylic with a flame so that is why you can see a blowlamp in the next pic as it was a good time to test it out while I had some material left to machine away if it was a failure , you will see the results later.










next was just a quess with the angle of the lens to give me a start point for future attempts when I have had a look at the results .
sorry I missed taking pics of the machining process will do some next time .

so it was a light sanding with a very fine grit wet and dry this was good because I found a pad on foam so it moulded to the shape better .










This is now the finished shape sanded and ready for a bit of magic from the flame 
I must say I was very sceptical but after giving it a try amazed .










the pic does not do it justice but when you touch it with the flame it magically goes shiny .










Now you are all wondering what the end result is like And it would be good to say it was a success but sadly I am not that lucky to stumble on it first time .

this lense and the next one which are the ones on the left were not very good and got modified about 6 times each and this gave me some valuable data on which way to go or should I say not to go . I have no pics as it was daylight and I was trying it on a wall then trim a bit and try again untill the lens was scrap .










Then it was thinking time and the third Troutlens was born which is the one on the right in the pic and I am mildly impressed with the initial result and will post a beam shot later when the freezing fog has lifted .

it actually does have a beam as opposed to a flood and I think I know which way to tweak it for a nice tight beam , I am thinking to make 3 and put them in the mag triple tomorrow.

Sorry for the long post. 
Troutie


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> ...I wanted it to have a convex front as a follow up to what I had learnt with the bar lens
> but did not know how to machine the curve , but this is when Trout is at his most dangerous, it becomes bodge time ....
> Troutie


Troutie, we all prostrate ourselves in awe at your astonishing bodgery skills! :thumbsup:

I was kind of hoping somebody would have a crack at turning a homebrew TIR optic, but you're probably aware there's some heavy-duty optics-theory, and probably lots of trial-and-error involved in their design. That's why Ledil (amongst others) take so long, and still don't always get it right first time. Anyway, can't wait to see those beamshots, mate!


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Troutie, don't make three.

Make six and send three down under  

Even if it doesn't work, it's pure genius, well done


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Troutie, don't make three.
> 
> Make six and send three down under


Cheers Stuart . might just do that Be cool to have a Troutlens on the other side of the world.

Cant do a outdoor beamshot as we are under a cloud of freezing fog and all i get is a huge reflection of glare .

so here are indoor ones .

first up is no 1 from left to right on the pic down below
then 2 and 3 .

the middle one is a total dud 
no 1 is beyond repair it gave its life for research .
but no 3 has pontential 
the light to ceiling distance is 8 feet 
and the diameter of the hotspot is 4 feet


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Wow Chris that is an impressive result given these are your first attempts.

Those beam angles are not that much wider than the useable light I got here, post #111. The 8* there does have a pretty intense hotspot that sadly presents as a donut around a nice dark hole. Which is how I suspect they are able to measure it as an 8* beam

It would be interesting to see how you go as far as efficiency is concerned. I know you won't be able to put a number on it but it would be good to see comparisons against some of the "off the shelf" lenses you already have.

For everyone else, I have been following Trouies posts since the start of THAT stem light thread and after hours of research I can finally reveal the one tool he has in his shed that he has not disclosed to anyone. It's no wonder he has such great success, all it takes is just a little rub.
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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

*Oh I've just had a thought, dangerous I know.*

Wombat suggested recessing the LED into the bottom of the acrylic, seemingly common practice for off the shelf optics that have high efficiency. I would suggest this helps "capture" as much of the light as possible.

It's also common knowledge that the optics that have a frosted outer surface loose the donut effect and the cross hairs, sadly this seems to be at the expense of the loss of a tight beam pattern or efficiency or both. Probably because the light is "collimated" by the lense but then gets "scattered" by the last surface it passes through.

So here goes, what if you were to make a small inverted dome recess to house the LED and then frost this recess instead of the outer face of the optic.

High light collection.
Individual die pattern is lost as soon as the light hits the optic.
The now diffused beam is then allowed to "collimate" by the optic back to a tight beam before exits and allows you to go on your merry way.

If this idea does work Troutie, and I know that now the seed has been sown you will try it, then you CAN send me a couple


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> all it takes is just a little rub.
> 
> .
> View attachment 412632


Ha Ha I the secret is out But the bloody genie wont do any cleaning up my garage is a mega mess at the moment.

Good point on the recess for the led it does have one but it is flat bottomed as it is drilled with a miling cutter .

I have had a study of all my other opfics and you may be right I will have to make a cutter to do the domed recess

These optics are dead easy to make on the lathe 15 minutes tops 
and cost about $1 in acrylic bar .each

now to go and study all the data sheets .

My efficiency meter has 3 readouts crap / mmmn / and wow.
so at the moment in order on the pic it goes crap / mmmn / mmmn .


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## mdsjack (Oct 26, 2007)

@emu: ahahahah!

@troutie: I've seen your stem light and let me tell you that will ever be the best solution. It's clever. I would keep improving that design.
I wish I had a CNC machine... A friend of mine does, but i doubt I can ask him such a favor... (and I wouldn't be able to design it with cad)


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

*Don't glue LEDs into a TIR optic*

We all make mistakes, so I thought I'd share one I made today.
As mentioned earlier, I tried gluing some LEDs into the recess inside a TIR optic.
Not one of my best ideas really. The adhesive I was using works great on pespex, but it fogged the LEDs. I haven't done any beamshots yet, but I'm guessing some efficiency has been lost. Bwahahahah.

Next time I'll try just dropping the LEDs into the recess and maybe using a drop of epoxy behind to secure 'em secure against vibration.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> I have had a study of all my other opfics and you may be right I will have to make a cutter to do the domed recess
> 
> .


Maybe there is a dremel attachment like a grinding stone which would be the the correct size pre made?? It might even leave a frosted section inside the recess at the same time?


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Ball end milling cutter or router bit.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Dremel do have an "engraving " attachment. Small "diamond" encrusted ball. They also have a number of the grinding stone / polishing stone type attachments, I have a round one, but I think a little too large, there are also conical shaped ones.

That said, I actually think a concave tool will work better. The Cree lenses I used have a hole shpaed like a cylinder drilled out of the bottom of them and a slight convex shape at the end. I think this only serves to magnify the seperation of the leds, giving the shadowing. If the end were concave then I think it would minimise the spacing.

Now all you need to do Troutie is work out how to cut a concave cutter, and then sharpen it


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Well I think this is one of my dafter ideas and can go in the might revisit in the future file.

yes it is possible to turn an ok optic but that is what you get .

I have given it my best shot and here are a couple of beamshots and you will see .

I can now understand lots about the workings of optics and light so it has not been wasted .

first pic is the optic and it seemed to be ok 
the one on the right is the one in the beam shot .
ignore the other 2 they are experimenting with the bar type optic.










It seems to have a better centre than before but I will not know untill I get it out on the trails.

beam shot of the trout made optic 29 mm dia / mce @ 350 ma 
and under exposed to show the beam .










next is the same mce at 350 ma but the optic is the old Ledil Rocket xre optic which is still my favourite beam and I took the measurements of for the troutlens to see how it would come out.










So the comparison is a fairly similar beam but vastly reduced lumens so this may be the acrylics optical quality or the shape of the troutlens .
so I think the optic companies can sleep easy in their beds now .

Next an update on the triple Mag-MCE you will remember I trashed the optic with solvent
well I now have a new Ledil Rocket 3 installed and here is the first beam shot this is the same distances as the other shots with the same camera settings and the light set on low .


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

"So the comparison is a fairly similar beam but vastly reduced lumens so this may be the acrylics optical quality or the shape of the troutlens ."

If the angle of the back side of the lens is not correct, light will be lost out of the side instead of being reflected forward out the front of the lens. You might take a look at that if you haven't already covered that base.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Here we go again*

I have been eyeing this up for quite a while now It has been hung up on my garage wall for 5 years now and I kept taking it down and seeing a light there .

Now that the XPE R2 is near with a 20 mm triple optic this is looking even tasteir 
for a tiny recycling build . I have not opened it up yet to see if it is viable .

Anyone got any thoughts .

It might even do a MCE and boom










:arf: The boss has said I have to paint the spare bedroom before any more tinkering with lights is done :cryin: So will investigate later


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## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

That could be, hands down, the most awesome build ever. Have the wiring come in where the hose is/was... though I'm sure you are planning that already. Then of course the LED will go in the reservoir.... but leave the lever on! My challenge for you is to make it so that the lever activates your (momentary?) switch! If you can pull this off, you will have the most ridiculously awesome light ever. No question!


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Just don't grab the wrong lever as you decide not to take that 12ft drop


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

It is looking even better than expected.
I might have to pass on the lever operated switch though.




























this was made for a triple XPE and the little driver I got of ebay with a bit of dremmeling i think will fit down the hole from the top .


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