# Getting a new Bike? Here's what you need to know.



## cummings (May 21, 2005)

Hey guys. Here's some knowledge and tips for those who are looking for a new bike or frame, but are feeling a little confuzled. Im going to cover as many issues as I can think of for this, but if I miss something, lemme know.

*First off, the big thing to decide when buying a new frame. Should I get a cr-mo frame or an aluminum frame?* Aluminum is a lighter but will potentially break easier. Cr-mo is a slightly heavier but potentially stronger material. One thing to remember is every bmx is cr-mo, and BMX has been going for years, and that what we are doing on a MTB is modeled after BMX riding. If you've ever seen a New World Disorder movie, you'll see guys like Cam McCaul, Aaron Chase, Wayne Goss and other big names killing street and dirtjumps on their aluminum whips. But on the other side there is all the riders like Anson Wellington, Guy Marsh, Billy Lewis, Adam Hauck and others slaying it on the Street and dirt aswell. What I'm trying to say is don't base a bike decision on pro riders. Most are getting paid, or getting free bikes from the companies they ride for, so no suprise they will endorse it. The bottom line is, if you want a more reliable, slightly stronger street/dj park ride, and dont mind the little extra weight, get a cr-mo frame. If you want a lighter whip, and maybe dont plan on thrashing the streets as much, an aluminum is for you. Also, if you are a singlespeed fan, Its tough finding an Aluminum frame with horizontal dropouts.

*24" Wheels vs. 26" Wheels* Im going to make this sweet and short. If you are a street and park rider, you should consider 24"s. One advantage of 24s is they are lighter and stronger at the same time (if you were comparing using the same model rim in different sizes). If you are riding dirt, rougher terrain, are a bigger guy, then I say 26".

*SingleSpeed vs. Gears* Singlespeed is starting to become popular. Very simple (even simpler with horizontal dropouts), lighter, no vulnerable derailler. I think everyone should have singlespeed, I love it that much. Most people I know that had gears and went to SS loves it and wouldnt go back. I cant think of many times I've wanted gears. Maybe when I'm at dirtjumps that require lots of pedalling or are on slopes. Thats all I can think of. Oh ya, If you want your bike to serve as double duty for trails as well. But if you do stick with gears, get a chainguide. Its pretty much a must-have.

*Size and Geo* This is extremely important. If you see a deal on a bike, dont jump on it unless you know its the right size. The worst thing is getting a bike that doesnt fit you. Look for short seattubes. If you can help it, look for something 15" and under unless you're massive. It sucks haveing a seat up you a$$ for street/dj/park. The thing that kills me is how most mtb companies size the bikes. They always increase seattube size with toptube length. You can feel TT length, but making the seatube longer doesnt make the bike feel different unless you are sitting. So if you are a big guy and need a longer TT, you'll have to put up with a longer Seattube as well. One way to help avoid this is getting a longer stem. That way you can get a slightly smaller bike with a smaller seattube. 
Geo. Geometry. Look for short chainstays. It helps alot for this riding. Manuals and spins are easier. Konas for example have long chainstays. They are good for dj, but arent as good on the street.

*Parts Spec*
When buying complete, look over the parts. Here's a list of parts that are key and some tips.

Fork- Stay away from Suntour if you can. Look for bikes with forks with around 100mm of travel. Look for Marzocchi_(you will see alot of these on lower to medium level bikes compared to the following. But they do have higher end forks aswell.)_, Rockshox, Manitou, and Fox _(doubt you will see many if any on complete bikes)_ I'm going to list a some forks to look for starting at begginner level going up to better quality. These are some forks you will actually see on complete bikes. Marzocchi Dirt Jam Comp (pretty low), Marzocchi Dirt Jam Pro, Manitou Stance, Marzocchi Drop Off, Marzocchi Dirt Jumper 4, RST Launch, Marzocchi Dirt Jumper 3.5, Marzocchi Dirt Jumper 3, RST Space, Marzocchi Dirt Jumper 2, Manitou Gold Label, Rockshox Pike, Rockshox Argyle. _The last few are in no particular order_

Bars- look for riser bars

Brakes- Disc are nice, but a quality v-brake set up good can be great as well. As for disc, you can have mechanical or hydraulic. There is only one company that actually have good mechanical brakes-- Avid. Look for BB5 and BB7 (best). Stay away from tektro discs. bad. hayes mechs arent the best either. If you go for hydraulic you should be fairly safe for having decent to great braking. Lower end- Hayes Sole. Medium- Hayes HFX9. Better- Avid Juicy.

Tires- look for slicker tires, with less knobs. Maxxis Holy roller, kenda k-rad are 2 examples.

Cranks- look for brand names such as truvativ, raceface, FSA. But be careful of the models. For truvativ, go for holzfellers and hussefelts, or if you are lower on cash, Ruktions, but they are not the greatest. Dont go lower than Ruktions with models like Truvativ X-Flow. You will probably not see many bikes equipped with raceface cranks stock, but if you do, They should be good. they will probably be Evolves. FSA has quite a fe models like truvativ, but like Truvativ, only some are good. FSA Nasty boys, Gravity, GAP, and Alpha Drives being lower end. Try to get something that comes with a bashguard. Some companies like GT and Felt have their own cranks. They will usually say "GT tubular" or "Felt Tubular". My advise is to be weary of them and check em out good first. Some don't work the greatest, some do. The are usually BMX 3 piece design. The better ones have a 48 splined BottomBracket which is good, some though use BB's with only a small amount of splines like 8 for example with the GTs, which usually arent the greatest. Lastly, there are some bikes that come with brand name, aftermarket bmx cranks, like Truvativ Luftalarm, Dk Chopsticks, and others that can be bought in the aftermarket. Remember, look for 48-spline BBs, and also some may say "sealed", which is good. These are good. A Plus with these, and with the GT and Felt designs, is they can use bmx sprockets and micro-drive drivetrain.

*Lastly, Im going to throw out some suggestions of my favourite bikes for different price ranges. The ones with :thumbsup: beside them are my favourites for their price*

*$500 or less* Look at used options. You will find great bikes that are cheap, and will perform much better than a a new bike of the same price.

*$500 to $800* Specialized P1:thumbsup:, Brodie Miscreant, Giant STP SS, Mongoose Thunderball, Mongoose Ritual:thumbsup:, DK Xenia:thumbsup:

*$800 to $1100* Cannondale Chase 4, Cannondale Chase 3:thumbsup: , Commencal Absolut CrMo:thumbsup: , Felt Jumpshot, Giant STP:thumbsup: , Kona Stuff, Kona Scrap, Norco Ryde, Rocky Mountain Flow 2, Specialized P2 Cromo, Eastern Night Train 26:thumbsup:, Eastern Night Train 24:thumbsup:, Diamondback Assault

*$1100 to $1550* Atomlab General Issue, Brodie Cretin:thumbsup: , Cannondale Chase 2, Commencal Absolut 1 &2, Kona Cowan, Norco 250, Norco 125, Rocky Mountain Flow DJ:thumbsup: , Scott Voltage YZ0.5

*$1550 and up* Atomlab Trailpimp, Cannondale Chase 1, Scott Voltage YZ0 Ltd., Specialized P3

*Do you want something unique? Not satisfied with a stock bike? Got a lil cash? Building a bike from the frame up could be for you. Here's a list of frame companies that have frames to compliment any build. Some are more "boutique" than others. Check em all out. BTW, I put brackets around some frame names after the company names. These are some models off the top of my head. Probably more.*

Nemesis Project (Streetfighter, Secret Agent)
Simtra (Psycho, BnB)
Black Market (Mob, Riot)
Union Street Bikes (Molly, Working Class Hero) 
Tonic Fab (Fall Guy)
Simple Bicycle Company
Santa Cruz (Jackal)
Banshee (Scratch)
Evil Bikes (Sovereign, DOC, Imperial SL)
Sinister (DNA)
Transition (Trail-or-Park)
Dobermann (M.B.F., Pinscher, Molosse)
Azonic (Steelhead)

Well, if you've read this far without skipping stuff, good job:thumbsup: It's long, I know, but it should help if you are seriously considering a new bike. Like I said, if you have anything to add, let me know.

cummings


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

You should add some stuff about cranks, it's a part that breaks often, especially on lower end bikes. You could also mention the 2 brakes vs rear only vs brakeless thing.

Good post!


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## mauric6943 (Nov 4, 2006)

I'll be the first to chime in with a Thank You. I'm sure there will be a million & 1 post saying you're wrong about A, B, or C but everyone has their own opinion but you took the time to write yours up.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

you saved my life, no seriously im tired of so many "whats a good bike threads".



oh and btw i didnt read the whole thing, im sure it was great though.


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## nomadkid91 (May 9, 2006)

you forgot about the sc jackal


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

nomadkid91 said:


> you forgot about the sc jackal


Jackal is a "frame only". I didn't bother listing any


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

way to go cummings. btw, i can't type your name without giggling childishly. i say throw on the eastern completes too. i keep a massive list of bike and frame makers if you want it.


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

pavement_hurts said:


> way to go cummings. btw, i can't type your name without giggling childishly. i say throw on the eastern completes too. i keep a massive list of bike and frame makers if you want it.


Thanks bro! Yea, I take quite a bit of abuse from the bros about my last name, but its all good 
Yea, I'm gonna throw up the Easterns, I remembered just after I finished it. Im gonna do a couple other quick additions too.
I might add frames some time, and then I'd put up Simple Bike Co, nempro, tonic fab, USB, etc.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

cummings said:


> Thanks bro! Yea, I take quite a bit of abuse from the bros about my last name, but its all good
> Yea, I'm gonna throw up the Easterns, I remembered just after I finished it. Im gonna do a couple other quick additions too.
> I might add frames some time, and then I'd put up Simple Bike Co, nempro, tonic fab, USB, etc.


 Speaking of Nemesis Project and such, why don't you put up a "custom" with a price range from 1000 to 3000+ depending on build and put up all the little frame builders out there, I figure it might complete the list.


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

snaky69 said:


> Speaking of Nemesis Project and such, why don't you put up a "custom" with a price range from 1000 to 3000+ depending on build and put up all the little frame builders out there, I figure it might complete the list.


So you mean just a list of the more boutique frames, or frames with a list of parts too?

BTW, does anyone know the prices of the Eastern's (warthog pro, nighttrain 26, nighttrain 24)?


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

cummings said:


> So you mean just a list of the more boutique frames, or frames with a list of parts too?
> 
> BTW, does anyone know the prices of the Eastern's (warthog pro, nighttrain 26, nighttrain 24)?


the night train 26" is 900-1000. it's the only one i've seen for sale online.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

cummings said:


> So you mean just a list of the more boutique frames, or frames with a list of parts too?
> 
> BTW, does anyone know the prices of the Eastern's (warthog pro, nighttrain 26, nighttrain 24)?


I figure just a list of the boutique brands would be fine. I mean nempro's got 4 models, tonic fab will soon have two, same with USB. So listing them all would be kinda pointless, but just a little list would be fine.

Did you think up of a thing to say about cranks? Your explanation on forks was pretty nice, I figure you could do the same with the cranks right?


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

snaky69 said:


> I figure just a list of the boutique brands would be fine. I mean nempro's got 4 models, tonic fab will soon have two, same with USB. So listing them all would be kinda pointless, but just a little list would be fine.
> 
> Did you think up of a thing to say about cranks? Your explanation on forks was pretty nice, I figure you could do the same with the cranks right?


I'll giver a try. Cranks arent my strong point of knowledge, but I should be able to get something figured out. I'm pooched right now, might not get to all the additions till tomorow. We'll see


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## madmike1 (Nov 10, 2006)

Nice post mate job well done:thumbsup:


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## aznsap (Jul 7, 2006)

how about the diamondback assault?

that's the bike i bought on a whim before i knew anything about bikes, but it'd be reassuring if it was on your list.


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

aznsap said:


> how about the diamondback assault?
> 
> that's the bike i bought on a whim before i knew anything about bikes, but it'd be reassuring if it was on your list.


Whoa, my bad bro. That bike is actually on the list I wrote on paper, missed it when posting here. It's goin on. I'll check my list over again, might have missed another, but dont think so.


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## wolfman91 (Apr 9, 2007)

thanx for this thread its been helpful
im currently looking at buying a new hardtail for dj/street and this has helped me alot


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

wolfman91 said:


> thanx for this thread its been helpful
> im currently looking at buying a new hardtail for dj/street and this has helped me alot


No problem wolfman, and by the way I have updated the original post with "frame only's" and a "cranks" section.


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## Bunsincunsin (Jan 5, 2006)

What about the Transition Trail-or-Park frame?

Nice post by the way!

Maybe you should add some links to the companies? Just a thought...


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## wolfman91 (Apr 9, 2007)

cummings said:


> A Plus with these, and even with the GT and Felt designs, is they can use bmx sprockets and micro-drive drivetrain.
> cummings


one of the bikes im looking at buying (dk-xenia)comes with bmx micro chain drive and bmx cranks


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

wolfman91 said:


> one of the bikes im looking at buying (dk-xenia)comes with bmx micro chain drive and bmx cranks


Great bike there. And it's got good cranks. DK Chopsticks are some that can and would be bought as an upgrade. What Im saying with GT and Felt, is be weary of cranks that are made by the bike company but arent really sold in the aftermarket, they are just made for a bike model. And not all cranks like what I'm describing are bad, but some are, and you have to be causion about them. Im going to change my description abourt cranks in a minute. What's the price of the Xenia? I want to add it to the list.


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## wolfman91 (Apr 9, 2007)

im in australia so in our currency i think its around 1200-1400 not 100% sure but tmorro im going to our local shop to check it out


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## IonicRipper (Oct 26, 2006)

You forgot to talk about some of the best street/park/DJ frames out there: Do-Ber-Mann!


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## TXneedmountain (Feb 14, 2007)

Thanks man this will definetly help in the buildup of my frame


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

wolfman91 said:


> im in australia so in our currency i think its around 1200-1400 not 100% sure but tmorro im going to our local shop to check it out


 Dont worry, I got the price. It's $650 us. Good price for what you get.


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## wolfman91 (Apr 9, 2007)

yeah one of the better value bikes for its price, and over here it comes with front discs aswell


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

great idea and work here cummings... 
but, looks like a long way to go and a lot of demands though.... the readers are not always so easily pleased, haha. tough work knowing what's going on isn't it? hahaha... great stuff I like it, and I'm sure plenty of others will get some great advice here from you as well. 

It's just so hard to do a write up like this regarding products without becoming too biased in one direction or another solely based upon brand loyalty or "cool" factor.
Gotta hold it down before it gets over the fence if you know what I'm sayin'.


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

Yea, I may have bitten off a chunk too big to chew here, but it was worth a try. Even if only a small piece of this helps someone, I'm satisfied. I'll probably do a little more work to it and see if I can make some parts less biased


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## Something Rudy (Jul 26, 2005)

nice job there sir, this article plus search button kept another silly thread from sprouting. 

one more thing is recommended wheelsets. that's where i am at in my build right now and nobody seems to have a hard core price vs. value opinion. any thing you guy can think of for an entry bike?


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## quintessence22 (Oct 17, 2005)

Can I get some information about rear hubs and singlespeed kits in this thread?
I need info on hub dimensions like length and axle width for SS.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

quintessence22 said:


> Can I get some information about rear hubs and singlespeed kits in this thread?
> I need info on hub dimensions like length and axle width for SS.


You can use your regular hub. Hub length and axle size is depending on your frame specification.

Here's a thread you may want to look at, if you have any questions feel free to post in it or PM me.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=286076


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## SnowMongoose (Feb 18, 2007)

Could I talk someone into going over bottom bracket selection and options?
I'm building up a steelhead and still have no clue if I want to go with an MTB BB or a BMX BB, or if I even have a choice (05 steelhead fwiw)
(going SS, mostly urban stuff, maybe a little DJ, some AM... nothing too extreme)
BB's are one of those things that seem to just get left out of people's part lists for builds


Thanks in advance from someone who has the enthusiasm, but is perfectly aware he doesn't know crap about spec-ing parts, other than frames and forks.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

SnowMongoose said:


> Could I talk someone into going over bottom bracket selection and options?
> I'm building up a steelhead and still have no clue if I want to go with an MTB BB or a BMX BB, or if I even have a choice (05 steelhead fwiw)
> (going SS, mostly urban stuff, maybe a little DJ, some AM... nothing too extreme)
> BB's are one of those things that seem to just get left out of people's part lists for builds
> ...


Hey, if you've got all the enthusiasm, that's all you need man! don't need to really know all the technical terms just to go out and have fun! :thumbsup:

Steelhead has an mtb threaded bb shell, called the euro. BMX/American shells don't have threads and are much larger in diameter.
I'm not sure what width though, I want to say 68mm wide, but it could very well be 73mm too. Easy enough to measure yourself, or wait for another Steelhead owner to pop in here...
What type of cranks are you looking at?


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## SnowMongoose (Feb 18, 2007)

well, now that I have that answer, I think I'll rock the raceface DH cranks that I picked up with a bunch of other parts in 'helping out' some guy on craigslist who was going roadie on us.
(when I post up the build, y'all will see some of the randomness)
so, going with those unless I get some sort of convincing argument against it...

'all that's left' to get ahold of is a stem, BB, chain, some spacers for the back end (leaving all the gears on the back looks tacky damnit) and oh, oh yeah. a fork. 

thanks sat, I'll keep lurking until I find another steelhead rider, or get bored enough to find a ruler.


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## comp (Jul 23, 2006)

cummings said:


> Whoa, my bad bro. That bike is actually on the list I wrote on paper, missed it when posting here. It's goin on. I'll check my list over again, might have missed another, but dont think so.


hi

you mention this bike on your list but it contain FSA alpha drive cranks & suntour duro dj-d 130mm hydraulic dampening & magnesium lowers?

please could you reassure me this is still good


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## bbrz4 (Jun 12, 2007)

bump.....


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## trevorh (Jul 31, 2006)

My god, this is a very worth bump.


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## BostonStreetRider (Sep 21, 2007)

v. good guide, thanks much.
And I'm sorry about my "what's a good street bike" type thread from a few weeks ago. I see how annoying those must be to you guys, my bad. Hopefully people will know now.


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## Briballdo (Jun 4, 2006)

NICE! just what i was looking for when i was buying my bike! thank u!!


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## bbrz4 (Jun 12, 2007)

Sticky !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Briballdo (Jun 4, 2006)

stick stick sticky


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## carfreak35041 (Oct 15, 2007)

Would you recommend a used giant stp or an eastern thunderbird to me? I'm going to ride mostly urban, try and learn to dirt jump, and go on trails often. What are the advantages and disadvantages of short chainstays? I'm a complete beginner and 13, so i won't be that hard on my bike since I'm also only 5 ft. oh and hehe cummings  im so mature for my age.


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## carfreak35041 (Oct 15, 2007)

srry double post


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

I did not see one mention of Profile for either cranks or hubs. Describing a paragraph on cranks without mentioning Profile is a sin.  

Nice work on the thread. I was thinking of doing one to cover the 3-a-day threads "What DJ bike should I get".


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## carfreak35041 (Oct 15, 2007)

Oh and i think you should have thrown in the Tbird into 500-800 dollar range.


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## TXneedmountain (Feb 14, 2007)

Excellent write up! Thanks so much!


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## jli (Oct 21, 2008)

How about DMR's? 
By the way, awesome thread. it helped me so much. thanks


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## hardrocker77 (Sep 7, 2008)

Sticky!
This is super helpful, NICE!


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## drain bamage (Nov 24, 2008)

Stickify!!!!


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## EDizzleVR6 (Oct 4, 2007)

i got a set of the FSA mega gap exo single speed cranks, and they broke on my after the 4th ride on them, moved onto some saint cranks, and been much better.
shimano > fsa
raceface > fsa
fsa no go


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## peeler (Sep 26, 2006)

New to DJ/Urban /park, and I just picked up a Transition TOP frame and building it up as asingle speed DJ/Urban/singletrack ride. just want to get some ideas on gearing ,thinking about a 34t X 20t combo and get a smaller gear for park/DJ? using a Manitou Stance forkdialed down to 120mm and Magura Loiuse Hydro Race face crank and bashguard,stem and bar, azonic velet saddle and soulcraft conversion kit, Maxxis Holy rollers and Mavic rims, shimano hubs( most part came off an old FR/DH bike that I broke). any advise?


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