# Vintage Litespeed Fat Bastard



## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

I had mentioned this bike before, but I finally have a picture so thought some here may enjoy seeing it.

I have a '91 Litespeed Fat Bastard. Back in '91 when I was shopping for a new bike, I new I wanted Ti. I had ridden a Yo Eddy and loved the geometry. I called Merlin and asked if it was possible to get a custom frame with Yo Eddy geometry, top routed cables (Merlin was still going under the bottom bracket at the time) and rack mounts. The guy on the phone at Merlin was very grumpy and quoted me very large number. Somewhere along the way I called CBO and said that I was looking for a custom Ti frame. Without me even mentioning Yo Eddy geometry they told me that they were just about to order a batch of custom frames from Litespeed that were copies of the Yo Eddy. I asked about getting rack mounts, they said it would be no problem. I think the frame was $1700. I also asked for no downtube stickers and a brushed finish. I didn't want my commuter attracting too much attention on the bike rack at work.

I drove up to Cambria and spent a day picking out parts. I built it up with a Doug Bradbury Manitou fork, Grafton cranks, Bontrager anti-chain suck thing, XT thumbies (upside down and backwards of course), and various goodies. I had two sets of wheels, a 32h racing set with knobbies, and a 36h set with slicks for commuting. This bike saw years riding, racing and commuting and went with me for a summer in Switzerland and a 10 day tour in Northern Italy (where I proposed to my wife).

The original Manitou fork rusted solid about a year after Answer bought Manitou. Answer had a trade in deal going and for $100 I got a new Manitou 2. The crown cracked on the 2 and I got a Manitou 3. The Precision Billet Pro-Shift rear derailleur is from my short unhappy time working for them and actually works great. I just recently tuned the bike up again. I took it for a spin in the local canyons. It handles and climbs great. I felt like it was easy to put my front tire exactly where I wanted to, but since it is a hardtail, I also HAD to put it where I wanted to. It is a great bike, but I will use my FS for regular rides and save this for touring in order to take it easy on the old components. Kind of funny, I used to commute with slicks and panniers and catch air in the canyon on the way home.

Cheers!

Scott in San Diego


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

outside! said:


> I had mentioned this bike before, but I finally have a picture so thought some here may enjoy seeing it.
> 
> I have a '91 Litespeed Fat Bastard. Back in '91 when I was shopping for a new bike, I new I wanted Ti. I had ridden a Yo Eddy and loved the geometry. I called Merlin and asked if it was possible to get a custom frame with Yo Eddy geometry, top routed cables (Merlin was still going under the bottom bracket at the time) and rack mounts. The guy on the phone at Merlin was very grumpy and quoted me very large number. Somewhere along the way I called CBO and said that I was looking for a custom Ti frame. Without me even mentioning Yo Eddy geometry they told me that they were just about to order a batch of custom frames from Litespeed that were copies of the Yo Eddy. I asked about getting rack mounts, they said it would be no problem. I think the frame was $1700. I also asked for no downtube stickers and a brushed finish. I didn't want my commuter attracting too much attention on the bike rack at work.
> 
> ...


Great story and history on that bike!

The bike rack makes me cringe a bit, but then the rack mounts would have gone to waste. 

Thanks for sharing!


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

Rumpfy said:


> Great story and history on that bike!
> 
> The bike rack makes me cringe a bit, but then the rack mounts would have gone to waste.
> 
> ...


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## mello211 (Dec 25, 2005)

what's the deal with the thummys upside down and backwards? I don't remember hearing anyone doing that.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

mello211 said:


> what's the deal with the thummys upside down and backwards? I don't remember hearing anyone doing that.


That was Shimano's original justification for the under-the-bar shifters, which were absolutely awful, not absolutely awful, but absolutely, totally, so-bad-it-hurts awful.

I had never seen anyone turn there shifters upside down but the Shimano rep insisted it was a growing movement in racing circles. I still use thumbies and the under-the-bar shifters were truly a solution in search of a problem.

This bike is the first one where I've seen someone do it.

'Guin

P.S. The rack is supposed to make you (or a thief) cringe.


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Upside down thummies were an H-Ball thing...you can blame (or thank) him.

rb


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

I recall lots of guys turning their thumb shifters upside down. Thats the reason Rapid-Fire came to be. Its much more ergonomic and safe (grip-wise) to have your thumb underneath the bar while shifting on a rough downhill. Rapid-fire came to be for a reason. Now it seems SRAM has finally given in and agreed that thats the best way to shift...

Mike Kloser, Paul Thomasberg, and Greg Herbold come to mind as some of the pros who did it.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

I do recall Herbold doing that but didn't see anyone in person doing it. The current day shifters are decent, when I referred to the so-bad-they-hurt shifters, it was referring to the first generation, didn't mention that in the post.

'Guin


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

I remeber seeing that frame advertised on the CBO ad in MBA, nice to see an actual frame! I'm surprised by the extended seat tower as its neither a merlin or fat chance trait. What decals did they offer with the frame when new?

I tried it that thumbie under the bar trick, but my (then) small hands couldnt make all the shifts!


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

My buddies and I all ran thumb shifters under the bar. The silver Suntour shifters worked very well since the clamp was more ergonomic. The shifters had to be filed down to clear the levers. With the adjustable retrofriction on the levers, they worked very well.


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

Regarding Under the bar shifters:

I bought my first MTB in the fall of '88 from my friend's brother's bike shop ("Ride-On Sports" in Las Cruces, NM). It was a left over '87 Stumpjumper. I wanted to put it together, and so my friend and I went into the shop one night and put together bikes. He set me up with a stand and let me loose. When I was done, he came over and said, "You put your shifters on upside down and your brakes are reversed." I had grown up riding dirt bikes, and had just put everything together in a way that fit my hands.

My first race was the "Chihuahuan Desert Challenge" in Terlingua, TX in February of '89. Greg Herbold saw my bike there and said I ran my shifters the same way he did.

The old thumb shifters are the most bullet proof shifters made. They can also do something none of the other Shimano shifters can do, shift across the entire rear cog in one shift. Mounting them under the bars allows you to shift and brake at the same time (easily). The 8th click on the seven speed works just fine with the 8 speed rears, but does require a little bit of fiddling.

When I was putting my Fat Bastard together at CBO in '91, the Shimano rep came by. He looked at my bike and said that Shimano was coming out with some new shifters that mounted under the handle bars and that I would really like them. Wow, was he ever wrong. Those first generation under bar shifters were weak, unreliable and unfixable.

Regarding the Fat Bastard frames:

I think CBO did several runs of frames. I am pretty sure mine was from the first batch of 12 or 13. I have found a picture of one other frame.

http://www.gunsmoke.com/mountain_bike.html

with a description here:

http://www.gunsmoke.com/business_index.html#L

Ah, the 90's. Wouldn't want to ride that bike in Africa. This frame does look different than mine with a shorter head tube and I can't tell if there is an extended seat tube like mine.

I will get some more detail pics of my frame (like a close up of the Bontrager anti-chain suck thing) when I get home.

Best to all,

Scott


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

outside! said:


> When I was putting my Fat Bastard together at CBO in '91, the Shimano rep came by. He looked at my bike and said that Shimano was coming out with some new shifters that mounted under the handle bars and that I would really like them. Wow, was he ever wrong. Those first generation under bar shifters were weak, unreliable and unfixable.
> 
> Scott


Must have been a couple years earlier than 91, because the first generation "push-push" shifters came out in 1990.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Must have been a couple years earlier than 91, because the first generation "push-push" shifters came out in 1990.


I don't believe they were out in 90. I was at a race in 1990 (I'm sure of the year) where the rep was showing them off to some of the riders and we were told they were coming out in the spring.

They sucked there and they sucked in the spring too.

'Guin


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

pinguwin said:


> I don't believe they were out in 90. I was at a race in 1990 (I'm sure of the year) where the rep was showing them off to some of the riders and we were told they were coming out in the spring.
> 
> They sucked there and they sucked in the spring too.
> 
> 'Guin


Well, wouldnt the spring of 1990 still be 1990? 

I remember them in 1990 very well. In 1992 they changed them to what they are today with the little trigger shifter on the front.

Edit: ah, gotcha, you meant next spring.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

pinguwin said:


> I don't believe they were out in 90. I was at a race in 1990 (I'm sure of the year) where the rep was showing them off to some of the riders and we were told they were coming out in the spring.
> 
> They sucked there and they sucked in the spring too.
> 
> 'Guin


This picture was probably taken in the summer of 1989 at the latest:

http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekataloge/PDF/Klein/Klein1990.pdf


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> This picture was probably taken in the summer of 1989 at the latest:
> [/url]


Oh, a Klein reference no less. Ouch.

Yep, you're right.

'Guin

p.s. I'm gettin' old.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

A few of us tried the upside down thumb shifter thing in the late 80s as well. Never really got used to them like that and didn't and still don't mind thunb shifters above the bar.

Early under bars from Shimano were the suck, but the ones from Suntour were even worse.


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

As promised, some pictures.

The first shows bike locked to a tree near Saxeten in Switzerland. There are dry clothes and food in the panniers. Sorry for the black and white, cheap scanner at home.

The second shows the rear shifter mounted under the bar, but not really upside down. Notice the faded anodizing on the upper side of the mount. That faded anodizing was earned the hard way, hours in the saddle.

The third shows the best anti-chain suck thing ever. Between that and the third eye chain watcher, I have never sucked a chain in the thousands of miles on this bike. Looks like I didn't get all the roofing tar off the BB shell either. Ah well, it's titanium!

If the rack hurts your sensiblities, you should see it with my three year old's trail-a-bike attached! Hey, it is only temporary, he is stoked, and I can hardly wait for the day that I have to ask him to wait for me!

I am positive about talking to the Shimano rep in '91 at CBO, but it is possible that he was talking about the second generation crappy under bar shifters. I still think they all suck when compared to thumb shifters. I may have to make my own 9 speed thumb shifters if I am forced to go 9-speed on my next bike. Sometimes I really hate the way Shimano, but they do make a nice derailler and cogs..

Best to all,

Scott


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## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

Sounds like the deal of the year for you when you bought the bike. Is that what the XT-737 8spd cassette was going on?

Great to see it's still going strong, rack and all. I noticed a Fat Chance Yo Eddy frame on Ebay recently that the seller (and original owner) had taken MTB touring over to Nepal amongst other places.

In regards to the upside down thumbshifters I do remember MBA magazine had a thing about creating underbar shifters using these and I think it was when the first generation rapid fire series was released and of course everyone was rather annoyed with them.

I find I love the XT thumbshifters, perfect when you have to shift across the cluster if you've misjudged the steepness of a hill, or have get the bike over a rocky ledge halfway up the hill, which you didn't see until the last minute.

Is that a traditional cone and cup XT bottom bracket in the last photo. I've got one of these sitting in my parts box which hasn't been used for about 11 years. I saw that 1990 Ibis SS frame on Ebay that finished yesterday(?) and the BB probably would have been right at home on the frame.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Nice looking rig, you know, Nitto makes some stunningly beautiful racks, not too pricey, and they would make a nice, clean, upgrade, a bike of that vintage deserves better=


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

Alexk -

The XT-737 8-speed cassette is for my Rocky Mountain or possible future bike. (If my Rocky Mountain breaks, I want to be semi-ready to quickly find a replacement).

XT-Thumbshifters are the best. Quick tip, if the cast mounting bracket screw hole gets stripped, it is possible to drill and tap it to the next biggest size. I think it is a non-metric size. I did it a few years ago and do not remember the exact size. If any one needs it, let me know.

Yes that is a cup and cone bottom bracket. I originally built it up with chrome-polish and rode it for a few miles before tearing it down and rebuilding it with grease, still spins like butter. I like cup an cone bottom brackets. I wonder where I would find one of those when it comes time to replace this one? I guess I need a list of all my critical parts and exact sizes so that I can buy any spares when I see them.

Mendoncyclesmith -

Thanks for the pointer to the Nitto racks. I will take a look. I still want to keep the cheap Blackburn, since that is the one that went to Europe.

So did anyone notice the cool tires in the black and white pic? Joe Murray Equilibrium on the front and Propulsion on the rear. When it was new it had the Joe Murray A:/ Drive and B:/ Drive tires. Yeah, they are not skinwalls, but then again, they are VINTAGE blackwalls. The Joe Murray tires always worked well for me.

Scott


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

outside! said:


> Mendoncyclesmith -
> 
> Thanks for the pointer to the Nitto racks. I will take a look. I still want to keep the cheap Blackburn, since that is the one that went to Europe.


Roger that, nostalgia trumps looks, any day=


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## L-Train (Apr 28, 2006)

*Cup and Cone BB*



outside! said:


> Yes that is a cup and cone bottom bracket. I originally built it up with chrome-polish and rode it for a few miles before tearing it down and rebuilding it with grease, still spins like butter. I like cup an cone bottom brackets. I wonder where I would find one of those when it comes time to replace this one? I guess I need a list of all my critical parts and exact sizes so that I can buy any spares when I see them.


eBay obviously is a good source.

Otherwise Track guys still swear by them so you can get Dura-Ace or Campy Record flavors. Your spindle length selection won't be the greatest though.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

outside! said:


> XT-Thumbshifters are the best. Quick tip, if the cast mounting bracket screw hole gets stripped, it is possible to drill and tap it to the next biggest size. I think it is a non-metric size. I did it a few years ago and do not remember the exact size. If any one needs it, let me know.
> 
> Scott


Actually, if the bolt hole gets stripped you can usually go to a fastener that is about a millimeter longer and be back in business. We found years ago (obviously) that Shimano sent those shifters out with a cheesehead bolt that was just barely long enough to get any purchase in the threaded hole in the bracket. If the hole stripped it was usually just a couple thread with several more still intact below them. Also, ALWAY grease the bolt before you thread it into the hole or you risk gauling the threads and destroying them.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Cool bike....I like the pick fully loaded...what a beast! Ti beast...


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

outside! said:


> Anyone know a source for NOS Odi Mushrooms? Skinny grips make my hands hurt.
> 
> Scott


They're not quite as cushy-thick as original Mushrooms, but the ODI Longhorns work for me and have the same basic flavor. BMX shops stock them.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Lizard Skins also has a couple models that have a very similar feel to the mushrooms. You can even get them in lock-on if that your preference.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Wow, thread back from the dead. 

I was so nice back then!


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

rydbyk said:


> Cool bike....I like the pick fully loaded...what a beast! Ti beast...


Thanks Rydbyk. I rode it last year up Palomar for the TOC with the panniers full of clothes, food and beer. Fun day and mine looked to be the only retro MTB on the mountain. I've since replaced the front wheel with a non-VRC wheel, just to keep it on the road and the tires are whatever I could find with minimal tread.

Mainlyfats and muddybuddy - thanks for the grip recommendations. I will look into those. On the new bike (Ells Epiphany) I am running the Ergons. All the hand, arm and shoulder pain I used to get went away when I started using them.

I've mentioned in another thread that I run Dura-Ace barcon shifters on Paul Thumbies mounts now . They are of course mounted upside down and backwards. They work perfect other than teh throw of the shifters being a little long due to the diameter of the bar cons being smaller than XT Thumbshifters. Shifing out of the biggest cog is a bit of a reach, but everything else is easy. Mid cluster shifts are super easy as I can just nudge the shifter with the outside of my thumb without loosening my grip on the bar. I tried the modern XT shifters for a year and just got tired of not being able to down shift quickly (how many times to I have to push that frigging trigger!) and not being able to tell what gear I was in in the dark by just feeling with my thumb on the shifter.



Rumpfy said:


> I was so nice back then!


Thanks to Rydbyk, I was re-reading the thread and was thinking the same thing! Did you quit drinking or something? That's a joke BTW. If we ever meet, I owe you a beer or something.


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Wow, thread back from the dead.
> 
> I was so nice back then!


ppfffftt


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

outside! said:


> Thanks to Rydbyk, I was re-reading the thread and was thinking the same thing! Did you quit drinking or something? That's a joke BTW. If we ever meet, I owe you a beer or something.


No....I _started_ drinking! 

I figured it was a joke...and I don't offend easy.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

MrOrange said:


> ppfffftt


Up yours!


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

i like the blue Derailleur, it got my attention as soon as i looked at the bike.


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## Winans (Jul 27, 2005)

Scott, I remember when you bought that bike. Good time.

Scott W.


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