# Forest Service proposal



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

The proposed North Big Bear Landscape Restoration Project also calls for building 47 miles of new e-bike trails in the area.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/drought-wildfire-commerce-prompt-massive-120059330.html


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## EpicTC (Jun 28, 2009)

Well, that's interesting.


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## Mojave G (Jan 30, 2015)

Kinda weird ebike trails are a main interest in this plan......dead forest thinning should be happening for sure though.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Converting the logging paths into e-bike trails with just a few finishing touch-ups?

I kid, I kid. I recall when some of the other illegal trails pretty much got plowed over by big logging equipment, but later got restored and made into official trails.

I expect some pretty good stuff that is news worthy.


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

If you read down through the article, you'll see the picture of the e-bikes that are for rent on the mountain. The trails that are suitable for those bikes are not the kind of trails that I'm interested in riding.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

I live in Big Bear and ride the trails and roads in Holcomb Valley regularly. I was also a board member of the Big Bear Trails foundation. The forestry has been talking about clearing an area around Big Bear for a long time now and have proceeded to do so in some areas on the south shore.
As far as building "eBike trails" I believe that to be false. There is a proposal to build some multi-use trails, that would follow the clearing or thinning of the forest on the north shore. The initial goal was to build a trail system that would circle the lake and would also reduce off road travel from the south shore trails. This would also reduce encounters with vehicle traffic on the north shore area.
I think the proposal of "17 trees per acre" is kind of extreme though.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> I think the proposal of "17 trees per acre" is kind of extreme though.



Any idea what the count was pre Forest Service fire fighting policy was? I know that in Arizona forests it was estimated at around 30 trees per acre on average.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

life behind bars said:


> Any idea what the count was pre Forest Service fire fighting policy was? I know that in Arizona forests it was estimated at around 30 trees per acre on average.


Not sure, but I know the forest thinning on the south shore has more than 17 trees per acre, probably something closer to 30 trees


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## Mitchbcool (Jan 3, 2018)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Not sure, but I know the forest thinning on the south shore has more than 17 trees per acre, probably something closer to 30 trees


Just read that article, it was in the LA Times a couple days ago. The Forest Service is concerned about the MUCH denser areas. From the article:

"Of particular concern are areas with hundreds of mature trees per acre and an understory of young conifers and sagebrush and manzanita"

If it results in more trails and reduces fire danger Im all for it. I was just there for the first time on an eBike, there are beautiful forest trails on the south side in addition to the Snow Summit bike park, but hardly anything on the North. From the article:

“This plan could elevate Big Bear Valley into an e-bike destination rivaling — even surpassing — those in Lake Tahoe and Mammoth Lakes” in the Sierra Nevada range, said Dallas Goldsmith, a lifelong resident of Big Bear Lake and owner of an e-bike rental business.

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## quadzilla411 (Feb 25, 2015)

Mitchbcool said:


> “This plan could elevate Big Bear Valley into an e-bike destination rivaling — even surpassing — those in Lake Tahoe and Mammoth Lakes” in the Sierra Nevada range, said Dallas Goldsmith, a lifelong resident of Big Bear Lake and owner of an e-bike rental business.
> Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk


This guy needs to get his facts straight RE: Tahoe. Tahoe is not a Ebike destination but more the opposite except for a very few short paths. Ebikes are not allowed on any of the classic MTB trails and TH's except maybe the lower Flume trail and that is questionable. WTBS, not much enforcement of the rules and there are plenty of Ebikes riding the trails but current signage prohibits anything with a motor.......


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

hmmm, what has a greater environmental impact, building 47 miles of new ebike legal trail, or allowing ebikes to ride existing trails?

This makes no sense at all.


.


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

quadzilla411 said:


> This guy needs to get his facts straight RE: Tahoe. Tahoe is not a Ebike destination but more the opposite except for a very few short paths. Ebikes are not allowed on any of the classic MTB trails and TH's except maybe the lower Flume trail and that is questionable. WTBS, not much enforcement of the rules and there are plenty of Ebikes riding the trails but current signage prohibits anything with a motor.......


Do you actually live here and ride here? I do, and I beg to differ. There are a ton of perfectly legal e-bike trail options everywhere. And then there are all the "fight club" trails on SPI land which are of course anything-legal because they are unofficial. You haven't a clue what you're talking about.


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## quadzilla411 (Feb 25, 2015)

nilswalk said:


> Do you actually live here and ride here? I do, and I beg to differ. There are a ton of perfectly legal e-bike trail options everywhere. And then there are all the "fight club" trails on SPI land which are of course anything-legal because they are unofficial. You haven't a clue what you're talking about.


I actually live adjacent to Tahoe and ride there quite a bit and have done so for years, so I do have a clue. However, I admittedly don't have much beta on whatever "unofficial" trails you are talking about. I know the rules up there as they are written and that is Ebikes with a few exceptions are only allowed on trails/roads that are motorized designation. I guess recently the Nevada State Park system is allowing Ebikes to be legal on their land so the Tahoe Flume from Spooner to Tunnel Creek is now Ok where in the past the Marlette to tunnel wasn't at least according to the rules and I was stopped on my Ebike by the trail guides up there and explained to me that it wasn't. So, some progress.

Anyway, I don't want to debate anything, I wrote my initial response to counter that statement that Tahoe was a Ebike destination and Big Bear Lake proposal will be a bigger project so something good and big. I don't think Tahoe is a Ebike destination but more a place where you can bring your Ebike and find a few legitimate places to ride. 

For me, I made the decision last year to only bring my pedal MTB when I go to Tahoe with the exception of maybe riding the Tahoe Flume.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

nilswalk said:


> Do you actually live here and ride here? I do, and I beg to differ. There are a ton of perfectly legal e-bike trail options everywhere. And then there are all the "fight club" trails on SPI land which are of course anything-legal because they are unofficial. You haven't a clue what you're talking about.


As I mentioned in my earlier post, I do live in Big Bear. Also as I mentioned, I'm sure the article is incorrect when it states "47 miles of eBike trails" where it should have read "47 miles of multi-use trails. that might someday be legal for eBikes". eBikes are not currently legal on the USFS trails in the valley.
What exactly is a eBike trail anyway? is it "eBike" only trail?
A couple of years ago, when I was on the Big Bear Trails Foundation board, the trails coordinator and I scouted out some areas for the "north shore trail". We came to the conclusion that 1) the trail had to be mostly south facing, so it would receive direct sunlight for most of the day and have views of the Big Bear Valley, Big Bear lake and San Gorgonio. 2) would have several access points along North shore drive (Hwy 38)

I believe had the article mentioned "multi-use trails" instead of "eBike" trails, there would not be so much local opposition.
The only "legal" multi-use trails on the northshore are Cougar Crest, the Woodland trail and Hanna Flats/ Grout Bay/ Grays Peak trails near Fawnskin.
Building a multi-use trail on the northshore would be very welcome for me so that it would link these trails from my front door. Currently, I have to ride fire roads(with ever increasing vehicle traffic) to access them. It would also make the dream of many of a "loop around the lake" trail system.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> What exactly is a eBike trail anyway?


On USFS land, according to their new rules, an ebike trail is a special designation that allows class 1 ebikes, and all non-motorized users. This special designation is going to reap havoc on any attempts to build or maintain those trails, as many funding sources are specifically for "non-motorized" trails only, so when they slap a "motorized - ebike only" designation on a new or existing trail, those funding sources disappear.

I'd like to think that USFS will realize the error of their policy and correct it, but in reality, I think they knew damn well what they were doing, and really have no intention of ever allowing ebikes to ride legally anywhere but trails that are already designated as motorized use. 

I also find it interesting that IMBA's policy on ebikes has been to support them as long as they don't jeopardize current access for traditional bikes, and then the USFS puts together a policy which will do that for virtually any existing non-motorized trails.

.


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

quadzilla411 said:


> I actually live adjacent to Tahoe and ride there quite a bit and have done so for years, so I do have a clue. However, I admittedly don't have much beta on whatever "unofficial" trails you are talking about. I know the rules up there as they are written and that is Ebikes with a few exceptions are only allowed on trails/roads that are motorized designation. I guess recently the Nevada State Park system is allowing Ebikes to be legal on their land so the Tahoe Flume from Spooner to Tunnel Creek is now Ok where in the past the Marlette to tunnel wasn't at least according to the rules and I was stopped on my Ebike by the trail guides up there and explained to me that it wasn't. So, some progress.
> 
> Anyway, I don't want to debate anything, I wrote my initial response to counter that statement that Tahoe was a Ebike destination and Big Bear Lake proposal will be a bigger project so something good and big. I don't think Tahoe is a Ebike destination but more a place where you can bring your Ebike and find a few legitimate places to ride.
> 
> For me, I made the decision last year to only bring my pedal MTB when I go to Tahoe with the exception of maybe riding the Tahoe Flume.


E-bike trails (i live in North Tahoe so this is what I know):


The entire Kings Beach network (which is also dirt bike legal), with great trails like Rise n Shine and Beaver Tail, plus a ton of others
All the SPI lands on Martis (which aren't "unsanctioned" or illegal, SPI is fine with them existing, they've just asked for them not to be publicized on the internet)
Overland Emigrant trail
Prosser Hill
Big Chief
ElizabethTown Meadows etc
New Happy Face trail, jump trail, and everything else around there that Truckee Trails Foundation is creating
Jackass, Captain Caveman, and the whole Jellystone network

There is a ton of e-bike legal trails all around Tahoe. I'm not even mentioning the stuff North of here when you head up towards Downieville. Of course, there's lots of great trails around here that aren't e-bike legal, but someone with an e-bike can have a wonderful time riding epic trails and being perfectly legal and never get bored. I'd totally call it a "destination".


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

More trails are always nice. Never had a problem with cali usfs especially up north, more like oc park rangers. We were going to rent ebikes and do the flume trail last year but got cancelled due to the fire.

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