# Gemini Titan Light review



## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

After seeing my MagicShine battery dissection/testing thread, Gemini Rides (Vag) contacted me and asked if I would be interested in reviewing/testing their battery pack. Sure...



In addition to a battery pack, Vag sent the Gemini Titan LED Light System Full Package. Very nice! This package consists of: the Titan light, a battery pack, a smart charger, 2 o-rings, a helmet mount, a headstrap mount, a travel kit, and a 1m extension cable. The full-on deal. :thumbsup:



I plan to put the system through some testing and provide feedback here. I just received the package, so this will be a first-impressions style entry, with some photos...



Overall, the similarity to the MagicShine is high. Both are driving P7 leds, both use o-ring mounts, both use 8.4V li-ion 4 cell battery packs, etc.



They are definitely different though. The Titan is slightly heavier 117g vs 103g. The housing is shaped differently. The button is different (softer feel), the mount appears a bit beefier (wider), there is more room for mounting the o-ring, the cable exits from the rear of the light instead of the front, there is a substantial o-ring behind the non-scalloped bezel, etc.



The travel case is a nice touch, which some people will really like.



Externally, the battery pack appears good. Nice tight shrink wrap, with less gap for water entry than my MS packs. Both Gemini packs were delivered at a charge state of 7.61V, which seems to be a decent storage charge (my RC charger discharges to 7.4V for storage). After some initial testing and use, I plan to dissect one of the two packs and expose the insides.



I prefer the Gemini battery case over the MagicShine one. It is different (see pics) and a plasti-dipped pack slips right in and out, but there is an extra velcro flap to keep the battery in place.



Yes, the batteries are plug compatible with the MagicShine. And, they are the appropriate configuration 2S2P (8.4V).



Gemini's web page claims 5200mAh, which would imply 4x2600mAh cells. The box shows 5000mAh. We'll see about that once I dissect the pack.



The charger appears to be a standard "smart" charger. I'll check the termination voltage here shortly (when the first charge finishes).



One thing I like about the Titan...when the battery is plugged into the light head it does not light up until you hit the button. I find the default on position of the MS to be annoying.

Initial light ceiling bounce tests (with the same partially charged 8.08v Gemini battery pack) show:
MS 900 unit 1: 90
MS 900 unit 2: 91
Gemini Titan: 102

So, slightly more light coming out of the Titan. Not sure if this is a better LED or if the LED is being driven a bit harder. At some point, I'll try to grab some comparative run-times.

That's it for now. Since the whole idea here is to put this package through its paces...please pipe up with questions and suggestions for testing. I'll do what I can...


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## rmi (Jan 14, 2010)

Good info so far. Keep us updated with your findings.

I really like my Titan, but this is my first bike light. Can't wait to use mine tonight in the snow (something we don't get a lot of here in Athens, GA).

Ryan


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Charging update:

After ~2.5 hours, I noticed the indicator had turned green. Measured voltage was 8.33V.

0:55 after noticing the green light, measured voltage was 8.34V.

1:40 after noticing the green light, measured voltage is 8.36V.

So, it appears that the charger indicates full at a conservative value (good), but continues to trickle charge while plugged in (mabe not so good if it continues trickling forever and you are the inattentive type?). I'll check again in a bit...


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

+ many many hours and the battery is at 8.37V. If this thing is still trickle charging, it is truly a trickle. With my habits of checking to make sure everything is unplugged prior to going to bed every night, I can't see myself ever overcharging the battery with the supplied charger.


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## norcalchico (Dec 25, 2006)

Nice review.
I really enjoy my light


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

baker said:


> + many many hours and the battery is at 8.37V. If this thing is still trickle charging, it is truly a trickle. With my habits of checking to make sure everything is unplugged prior to going to bed every night, I can't see myself ever overcharging the battery with the supplied charger.


Usually doing the first couple charges a battery will need time to equalize or balance. This is a function of the PCB of the battery with the charger kicking in to add additional current when needed. At the end of a charge a good charger will adjust the current to make sure the battery is topped off properly. I think this is a good sign.

Before any more testing is done on the Gemini I have to take my hat off to Vag who has represented his product very professionally. He not only volunteered one of his lights to Fransocis for review but has supplied Baker ( a fellow poster ) with one as well, "Knowing that the product is going to be dissected and put up for criticism". Not only that but he has contacted people and asked for their opinion on how he can make his product better. I was one of those people. At no time did he try to "Sell" his product to me. All he wanted was input. A class act if I do say so.

To sum up, hats off to both Vag and BajaShannon who are taking time out to represent their companies. Yes, they are both Sales people but they are far from hucksters. Very much in Geoman fashion they are both crossing over to become true customer service/sales representatives ....and to that I take my hat off and say thank you. Very well done. :thumbsup:


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## jsigone (Aug 25, 2004)

any beam shots?


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

No beam shots yet. I need to read up on the mtbr standards and see if I can grab some decent shots. 

I did a discharge test on the first battery pack with my RC charger. It measured 5099mAh while discharging from 8.37V down to 6.00V. Pretty decent results, I'd say.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

OK, grabbed some beam shots. My camera is incapable of the mtbr official settings, but I used the same manual settings for each shot: F3.5, 4 seconds exposure, iso100, and "fine" white balance (I think daylight?).

Lights are vaguely aimed at a pile of rocks, which is 50 feet. Tree is at 126', red barn is at 163'.

Control shot

------------------------------

Titan High

------------------------------

MS900 1 High

---------------------------------

MS900 2 High


-------------------------------
Kaidomain XM-L drop-in High


I'm unsure what conclusions to draw from the beamshots. The one MS900 has always seems to be a greener tint to me and the beam shot solidifies that gut feel. I think the Titan is putting out a hotter hotspot, while still maintaining a huge amount of spill. The XM-L is way way tighter than I perceived through just using my eyes.


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

are you using 2 different ms-900s?


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

nick d said:


> are you using 2 different ms-900s?


Yes, one is a 5 mode and one is a 3 mode.


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## Lost Biker (Jun 7, 2009)

Very good review so far. Looking forward to reading more.


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## Paydirt (Jul 6, 2005)

Any indication of this being UL approved? I only see 'CE' on the charger.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Paydirt said:


> Any indication of this being UL approved? I only see 'CE' on the charger.


 Unless it's in invisible ink or on the other side I don't think so. Not a real biggie though. Even if it did have a UL mark....ummm...never mind, I'll not go there again. For what it's worth, a little info about the CE mark. ( see link )


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Continued from my last post:*

Now here's something interesting that I discovered, the charger for the Gemini and the charger for the Bikeray look the same and have the same model number..:ihih: 
The only difference I see is that one has the UL label ( bikeray ) and the Gemini doesn't. I'll step back and let the reader decide what this means.
( Here I go, starting trouble again...:nono: ... )

Charger for bikeray










Charger for Gemini


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

SSDD

Same Sh*t, Different Day

That's what it means to me. I don't trust any of these lights - they all appear to be clones and I don't know what to believe, so without local dealership/accountability, I won't go near them. I am not a fan of MagicShine, but I do trust Geoman as a distributor for other products. I am willing to wait until Baker is done with his review on this light however. It would also be nice to get the official mtbr review from Francois as confirmation.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

I.m waiting for Baker to dissect these batteries to see if they are legit I still need a few more batteries to replace my magicshines 
for $65 bucks shipped and a higher mAH it make more sense on getting these rather than doing what I have been doing by getting a battery from all-battery and a cord and case on ebay and the time to solder it ends up being about the same amount with a little more ride time.


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## steveh250 (Dec 27, 2010)

I noticed that here in Victoria that the Gemini Titan is also being sold through a LBS:

http://www.russhays.com/product_s.php?id=618​
Still cheaper to buy via the web site (odd given the LBS in question isn't that far from Gemini's Victoria office).

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...et,+British+Columbia,+Canada&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=15



betweenrides said:


> SSDD
> 
> Same Sh*t, Different Day
> 
> That's what it means to me. I don't trust any of these lights - they all appear to be clones and I don't know what to believe, so without local dealership/accountability, I won't go near them. I am not a fan of MagicShine, but I do trust Geoman as a distributor for other products. I am willing to wait until Baker is done with his review on this light however. It would also be nice to get the official mtbr review from Francois as confirmation.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Maybe a good start for Gemini to gain our trust is to give us the real lumen output of the light.

We already know the MS is well overstated which should be a big red flag to start.

Has one been sent to Francios for a review.


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## Gemini Lights (Sep 20, 2010)

mb323323 said:


> Maybe a good start for Gemini to gain our trust is to give us the real lumen output of the light.
> 
> We already know the MS is well overstated which should be a big red flag to start.
> 
> Has one been sent to Francios for a review.


Hello and Happy New Year!,

Francis already has one in his hands. I suppose that soon he will be posting his review and opinion. My suggestion is to all wait for his independent opinion on output.

As you know the majority of our competitors using P7 claim 900 Lumens which is the maximum output a P7 can have. My personal opinion is that Titan is a bit more bright than the MS.

We are very happy for the review made by Baker and looking forward to the battery testing part.

Thank you, 
Vag 
On Behalf of the Gemini Team


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Gemini Rides said:


> Hello and Happy New Year!,
> 
> Francis already has one in his hands. I suppose that soon he will be posting his review and opinion. My suggestion is to all wait for his independent opinion on output.
> 
> ...


I'll try to get some battery dissection going this week. I've run the batteries through a handful of charge/discharge cycles, but don't have anything too exciting to report yet. No alarming behavior, not that I'd expect to see anything strange in that short period of time.

Interestingly, I see that my hobby charger appears to consistently undercharge the battery packs compared to the charger provided by Gemini. When complete, the RC charger shows that it is at 8.40V, but when I measure the pack on a multi-meter, it shows 8.30V.

The Gemini charger does not overcharge, seeming to go "green" at 8.33ish volts, while continuing to trickle thereafter. I have let the Gemini charger continue overnight and the resulting voltage was still only 8.37V.

Discharge cycles appear to validate that the Gemini charger is actually providing more capacity (~5000-5100mah) versus ~4700-4900mah for the RC charger. My thoughts are that the RC charger is more conservative and will provide longer pack-life, while the Gemini charger will provide slightly higher runtime at the risk of reduced battery life expectancy.

One niggling quality control complaint (which I've already alerted Vag to) is that my light mount is slightly off center. This can be fixed by loosening the mount screw, straightening the mount, and re-tightening. A simple fix, but would be nice if these issues were caught in QC.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

*Battery dissection*

OK, managed to open up the battery and get some decent pics. Overall, the battery pack looks quite a bit more professional than the MS one I dissected in an earlier thread. The pack is double shrink wrapped (see pics for what I mean), the ends are protected with nicely shaped foam pads, the positive battery ends are isolated, etc. I have no idea if these will lead to a truly better battery, but the attention to detail seems good.

Before disassembly the pack was reading 8.36V. After disassembly, I measured the individual cells and recorded 4.18v, 4.18v, 4.17v, and 4.17v. Nice. Of course, this pack has barely been used, so I have no idea if the balance will remain in the long run.


Double (sorta) shrink-wrapped. Should provide more protection against water intrusion. The circuit board is under that paper-like strip in the middle of the two exposed batteries.


Battery markings.


I think I can make out BAK A04 on the backside of one of the batteries.




Peeled off the end protectors and circuit board protector strip.


Protectors/isolation strip.


Notice the orange circles on the positive ends. I think these are to isolate the batteries and prevent short circuits, but I am not sure.


Showing backside of circuit board and what I assume is the part number: LP9971 R1 with a manufacture date of 11-25-2010.

All in all, the pack looks good to my untrained eyes, but that says nothing in particular about long term performance or cell quality.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

From what I've read, the problem with the Magicshine battery packs has been that two of the batteries do not get recharged completely. Could you possibly do several charge/discharge cycles and then test the voltage on all batteries after a charge to verify this is not a problem with the Gemini batteries? 

Thanks for the detailed review BTW!


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> From what I've read, the problem with the Magicshine battery packs has been that two of the batteries do not get recharged completely. Could you possibly do several charge/discharge cycles and then test the voltage on all batteries after a charge to verify this is not a problem with the Gemini batteries?
> 
> Thanks for the detailed review BTW!


I have heard the similar stories. I have cycled the batteries several times, but see no significant imbalance. Who knows when or if it might arise... I'll continue to use the batteries and will check the voltages when I get a chance.


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

there is nothing wrong with this battery construction.
the basics are covered, except ...

magicshine failed due use of unmatched, different batch cells.

in this picture, you can seen 00310 and 002705 ,
what would raise a question.

than again, some of the OEM cells I got , even from big japan manufacturer,
have no labels on them at all. but you do get a material data sheet, and production run cross-reference.

than again, these suppose to be used for mtb, bicycle use, where things , to bounce around, and get wet. 
so from that aspect alone, it does not meet my minimum.

for the waterproof test, 
If you piss on it, wash it afterwards, if it still sticks, you wanna live with that ?

my basic usage, after a real nasty, dirty ride, I have the bike on a hitch rack,
and just drive to the car-wash, to pressure wash the whole thing.
(yeah I don't hold the nossle 1/2" from the bearings, so yes, it's fine)
usually I took the battery out of the water bottle holder, so I don't loose it on the highway,
but sometimes, I washed the whole kids and caboodle , mtb bike, lights and battery.
just don't like the horse manure smell in my house, and the trail have all kinds of flavor.

cheers, Rob
https://mtbl.robs-x.com



baker said:


> OK, managed to open up the battery and get some decent pics. Overall, the battery pack looks quite a bit more professional than the MS one I dissected in an earlier thread. The pack is double shrink wrapped (see pics for what I mean), the ends are protected with nicely shaped foam pads, the positive battery ends are isolated, etc. I have no idea if these will lead to a truly better battery, but the attention to detail seems good.
> 
> Before disassembly the pack was reading 8.36V. After disassembly, I measured the individual cells and recorded 4.18v, 4.18v, 4.17v, and 4.17v. Nice. Of course, this pack has barely been used, so I have no idea if the balance will remain in the long run.
> 
> ...


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

rschultz101 said:


> there is nothing wrong with this battery construction.
> the basics are covered, except ...
> 
> magicshine failed due use of unmatched, different batch cells.
> ...


Vag had sent me the battery data sheet a while ago, but I hadn't looked at it in detail. Seeing your comment, I went back and reviewed the bar code info and it looks like the batteries are from the same batch. The different numbers are ordinal numbers, which I think is different for every single cell within a batch. See snippet of data sheet below.



Here are some more specs from the data sheet...



As far as waterproofness goes, I don't see that this pack would stand up to your use, Rob. At a minimum, I would think the pack would need to be plasti-dipped to handle that kind of water exposure.


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## Lost Biker (Jun 7, 2009)

Is the Gemini Titan considered a spot light or a flood beam pattern? I looked at the photos above but its still not clear to me. It looks like a hybrid (flood + spot). Not sure though.


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## Gemini Lights (Sep 20, 2010)

Lost Biker said:


> Is the Gemini Titan considered a spot light or a flood beam pattern? I looked at the photos above but its still not clear to me. It looks like a hybrid (flood + spot). Not sure though.


Hello,

Gemini is an all around hubrid light. Nevertheless many people who have used it say that it is more on the spot side. For that reason we are looking for some new optics who will give different beam patterns, but it takes time.

At the moment I believe that Robs optics will also fit Titan. http://mtbl.robs-x.com
I will send him a message to confirm.

Greets, 
Vag
On Behalf of the Gemini Team (always )


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

@ Baker
Slightly off topic but can you provide a link to the KD XM-L drop in you used in post #9 and what current was that driven at?

Thanks


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

emu26 said:


> @ Baker
> Slightly off topic but can you provide a link to the KD XM-L drop in you used in post #9 and what current was that driven at?
> 
> Thanks


I believe this is the drop-in I ordered:

http://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11096

I measured a3.3A draw at the tailcap on high. With efficiency losses, I imagine the led is being driven at 3.0 or less.

baker


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks mate very much.

Also with your last comment under the photos are you saying the XML looks tighter in the pic than it did in real life?


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

emu26 said:


> Thanks mate very much.
> 
> Also with your last comment under the photos are you saying the XML looks tighter in the pic than it did in real life?


In real life, it seems like lots of flood. I was very surprised to see the pic show it to be more spot than I thought it was. I've been using the XML mostly around the house/property. It seems to be a great light for that.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

baker said:


> I believe this is the drop-in I ordered:
> 
> http://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11096
> 
> ...


I have the same drop-in. I measured the same output although I'm sure it made a difference that the battery I used is new and freshly charged. With that said I'm sure the current draw will drop quickly with the load pulling 3A.

Baker, almost forgot...nice review of the battery. The Gemini battery looks like a much better product than what I expected. Very nice that Gemini provided documentation as well. Thumbs up.


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## guilev (Dec 31, 2010)

First of all, this is a very good review, thank you baker. :thumbsup: 

Now how much of a concern is it that this battery pack is not waterproof? I mean I obviously could end up riding in the rain for an extended period of time for example.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

guilev said:


> First of all, this is a very good review, thank you baker. :thumbsup:
> 
> Now how much of a concern is it that this battery pack is not waterproof? I mean I obviously could end up riding in the rain for an extended period of time for example.


That is a good question, and I don't have an answer! Way back in the day, I repeatedly rode the 24 Hours of Canaan race with a completely un-waterproof battery pack (an old lead acid Vista system). I never thought about the issue and actually had no problems in monstrously bad conditions. Maybe I was just lucky?

Actually, over the 18 years I've been night riding, I've never had a battery problem caused by water. Then again, I live and mostly race in Colorado, where rain is generally not an issue. I think some people who live in rainy places would need to pipe up with real experience.


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## Broadica (Mar 28, 2008)

Baker,

interesting part on the battery. from outside they look just the same with Magicshine battery with shrink wrap. 

would be great if you do a review on bikeray II too. with the 99% similarity look between Bikeray II with the Gemini Titan except for package and branding different to us consumer, i be curious. that way you have 3 system to compare especially on the battery part. 

would be great if you can get hold a bikeray II and dissect it and compare the internals. 
i'm sure many will benefits the differences between them.


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

should have the Gemini Titan in shortly.

I will have beam shots of all 3 (Magicshine, Bike Ray-II, Gemini Titan).
I will make measurements, so you will know.
presume you want beam-shots.
- standard reflector
- soft/flood lens
- euro spot lens
- wide

yesterday just finished shoveling the snow , 5hrs, everything shutdown,...in MA

in case you got 3-20x the budget , I'll have more options for you coming.
---------
cheers, Rob ......... http://mtbL.Robs-X.com


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## canuckrick (Mar 13, 2011)

To bump an old thread.... does anyone have addditional impressions after using the light for a while. I'm looking at getting one of these but haven't seen any talk about them in over a month. 
Are people that are using them still happy? Any issues?
Thanks.
Rick


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## RE1GN2 (Feb 28, 2008)

My Gemini Titan is still working perfectly after using it pretty hard this winter season. I've crashed with it and dropped it in water once, but it's still tough as nails. Great value and extremely bright.


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## norcalchico (Dec 25, 2006)

My is working Great! Love this light and you can't beat the price


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

LED upgrade

just did an LED upgrade for testing, 
weather it would work, and how much does it bring.

for one thing, the reflector won't work, but lenses still work.
since the XML is using less voltage , 5% less power to it.
what would mean 5% more run-time.
gain , about 15% +, looks promising ,
otherwise, the LED is 20%+ more efficient.

for a few hard-core riders, with 2 on the handlebar,
those would be the brightest ones.
could maybe do a led swap/upgrade, if interested.

cheers, Rob
mtbl.robs-x


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## paweliania (Jun 15, 2009)

*Open Light 4.5 Amp Hour German Battery*

Baker, 
How would you compare the Titan battery to the Open Light 4.5 Amp Hour German Battery that Geoman sells?
Paul


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

paweliania said:


> Baker,
> How would you compare the Titan battery to the Open Light 4.5 Amp Hour German Battery that Geoman sells?
> Paul


I don't have the Open Light battery and haven't even looked at the specs in detail. As a generalization, EU products adhere to some fairly tough safety and manufacturing standards...


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

open-light batteries,...

let me ramble a bit,
gemini should be higher capacity 5.2 vs 4.5
OL waterproof
OL top quality cells, think they use panasonic only
OL protection circuit, think they designed it
OL warranty, probably never need it
OL same construction as other batteries packs they have , very good.
OL tests and certifications

what's hot, think the 6-cell, be groovy, for longer runtime or running 2 lights 
just my 2 cents, Rob


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## Earthpig (Jan 23, 2004)

Baker - bumping an old thread. What's the latest on the Gemini? Any recent riding/testing? I'm considering pulling the trigger on a Titan, but would like to get your feedback.


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## Baja Designs (Aug 3, 2010)

baker said:


> OK, grabbed some beam shots. My camera is incapable of the mtbr official settings, but I used the same manual settings for each shot: F3.5, 4 seconds exposure, iso100, and "fine" white balance (I think daylight?).
> 
> Lights are vaguely aimed at a pile of rocks, which is 50 feet. Tree is at 126', red barn is at 163'.
> 
> ...


Hey Baker, this has been a fun read! I love a good review. I am glad that one MS shot looked green to everyone else, thought I was going crazy, the 808 we have to play with doesn't have quite that green of a tint so it must vary a bit, eh?

Anyway, thanks for the kind words, but I can assure you that I am the most vile and sinister of hucksters:ihih: I'd talk about bike lights in line at the movie theater if my wife would let me. (I do it when she isn't looking - hah!)

I think it'd be cool to see our little Baja Designs beasties run your gauntlet, if you'd like to test our Strykr and Strykr Pro let me know and I'll send you a set of them. My email is [email protected], I look forward to hearing from you.

Shannon


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

think , this thread has is covert.
if you have more questions, let me know.
have 3 XML upgrades left, limited time offer.
you could get a new titan set, with xml upgrade.

mtbl.robs-x


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## canuckrick (Mar 13, 2011)

@Earthpig I picked up a Titan about a month ago and love the light. I use it mainly for commuting, but have an unlight trail ride through a local park for part of it so I wanted a fair bit of output.
Only issue I had was that about 10 tens days in, it just stopped working. Took it in to the LBS where I bought it, and they confirmed it was a battery issue. They replaced it on the spot and though I never did find out what the issue was, I've had no issues since. (It was strange that it worked for about 20min, then just quit...) 
Hope that helps.


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## CrazyCanuck (Mar 14, 2008)

I got a Titan a few months ago, and have ridden with it at least a dozen times. While it claims 900 Lumens, it is nowhere near that. I have a 4sevens Quark AA2 light on my bars as well, which is measured to ANSI specs at 177 Lumens(with a similar pattern) I figure, based on that, that the Titan is probably 400 ish lumens at most. Its got decent spill, but I still feel the spot is a bit tight at times.

Charge times are decent, and since I only ride for about an hour or two, I've never run out of light.


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