# Feedback on 44mm reamers?



## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

I was told that there might be a VAR 44mm reamer, but have been unable to find anything.

Anybody using either the IceToolz or the King?


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*I have the King*

I try to make a policy to only buy decent tools (sometimes I fail) so I dropped the ducats on the King. It works great (though I've only done 3 frames so far) and I don't regret it.

I know Cambria and a few other places list the Icetoolz. It is certainly cheap, but I don't know of anyone actually using one. If someone out there is, chime in and let us know how it works, eh?

-Walt



D.F.L. said:


> I was told that there might be a VAR 44mm reamer, but have been unable to find anything.
> 
> Anybody using either the IceToolz or the King?


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## 18bikes (Jan 15, 2007)

I have the icetoools, it's only been used on one frame so far so can't comment on longevity, but it seems to cut fine and fits the park holder if you make a little spacer

all our other cutters are park or cyclo (we have 4 bb taps, two headset reamers and 2 bb facers, it's a long story but basically amounts to "we like tools") and i can't really tell any difference from one use.

It was cheap and because the UK distributor didn't have stock and wasn't going to have it for a while, icetools sent it over with a rep who was on his way back as a special so I can't fault them for customer service.

I'm sure if we start using it more it will get replaced with a king cos they are seriously nice

hope that helps

matt


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I have the King and would spend the money again.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

The King reamers are pretty rad. It'd be nice if Park would start making more of the new special reamers. That would help bring the cost down and more possibilities.


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## Linnaeus (May 17, 2009)

These use 100 year old technology, so I'd imagine (or hope) Icetoolz would make a decent cutter. Then again, they are probably made in Asia and who knows what kind of heat treat they use and how their QC is.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

https://www.lifu.biz/icetoolz/index_pro3.php?parent=49&id=275










The seat tube reamers look sweet!

https://www.lifu.biz/icetoolz/index_pro3.php?parent=50&id=282


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

pvd said:


> https://www.lifu.biz/icetoolz/index_pro3.php?parent=49&id=275
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yo, if that's their 44mm reamer, I'd want to be absolutely certain that it can cut deeply enough for the 1.5 bearing lower headset cup. Going from memory (which is usually faulty) the ZS/King internal cup is 11mm deep and the 1.5XX44 jobby is 14 or 15mm deep. That simple fact might rule out the icetoolz cutter depending on your needs.


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## brant (Jan 6, 2004)

smudge said:


> the ZS/King internal cup is 11mm deep and the 1.5XX44 jobby is 14 or 15mm deep.


Sounds incredibly shallow cup depths for a 1.5in race, with the OnePointFive standard calling for 25.4mm insertion depth.


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## 18bikes (Jan 15, 2007)

the ice tools one only cuts about 7/8mm deep, as most 44mm cups aren't that deep, may cause problems as people have suggested

matt


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

King ordered. Last one in stock.

I wish it was the sort of thing one could rent out, but.


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

D.F.L. said:


> King ordered. Last one in stock.
> 
> I wish it was the sort of thing one could rent out, but.


Good deal, it sounds like King is really behind right now. Called the other day and they mentioned that they've scaled back to only 4 colors even. You may have the last one for a very long time.


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

jay_ntwr said:


> Good deal, it sounds like King is really behind right now. Called the other day and they mentioned that they've scaled back to only 4 colors even. You may have the last one for a very long time.


It almost seems like they're going out of the bike business. Over a month ago, I ordered some silver hub shells, but they're still not in. That same shop said some other hubs are on backorder for over 4 months. The last three CK hubsets I've ordered all have taken 4-6 weeks. They should consider having the stuff built overseas.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*I'll throw my hat in the ring...*

For those folks who are only going to build one of these, or don't want to invest in more tools (shame!), for $100 I will:
-Ream/Face your head tube with my pretty pretty King tools
-Install a Cane Creek XX44 headset (this is an S-3 level product - ie around $50-60 retail)

Obviously you'll have to get the bike to me in the first place, and if you need it shipped somewhere, you'll have to pay for that too.

I'm not thinking this is something a lot of hobby builders are going to be doing, but if so, drop me a line.

-Walt

Edit:To avoid any appearance of impropriety: http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showproduct.php?product=52772



D.F.L. said:


> King ordered. Last one in stock.
> 
> I wish it was the sort of thing one could rent out, but.


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

They said that the new road hubs and a couple of other things were taking up extra machining capacity. 

Now, how to mate the cutters to my crappy Bicycle research chunk-o-all-thread.


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

D.F.L. said:


> They said that the new road hubs and a couple of other things were taking up extra machining capacity.


Ironically, the new road hubs are what I'd like to order, just in something other than black, silver, red, or blue.

Sorry to derail this, do post pictures when you get it figured out. I'd like to see what you come up with.

Walt, good to know--very good to know. BTW, the CK headset would still press in correct?


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Yup.*

The headtube ends up reamed for any 44mm inset/zerostack/XX44 headset you want. If you want a headset that isn't the XX44, the price will change a little bit (well, it'll change upwards...)

If you don't want a headset at all, $50, maybe?

-Walt



jay_ntwr said:


> Ironically, the new road hubs are what I'd like to order, just in something other than black, silver, red, or blue.
> 
> Sorry to derail this, do post pictures when you get it figured out. I'd like to see what you come up with.
> 
> Walt, good to know--very good to know. BTW, the CK headset would still press in correct?


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

D.F.L. said:


> They said that the new road hubs and a couple of other things were taking up extra machining capacity.


My understanding is that they have been working at absolute capacity for some time and any time a new product is added, it's at the expense of scaling back production on an existing one. How lucky are we that they haven't raised prices again recently?


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## fanzy4 (Aug 19, 2004)

What about this ??? :

http://www.aufa-outillage.com/alesoir-machine-creux-hss-44-mm-xml-255_284_289_2976_3003-14497.html










Sorry, they don't seem to have an english version... Price is without VAT.

Seems like one of the advantages of living in a metric country....


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## Winter Bicycles (Jun 8, 2008)

That shell reamer is pretty common in 1 3/4" sizes, which are easily reground to 44mm. With the right fixture and a lathe that seems like a decent way to go.


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

Winter Bicycles said:


> That shell reamer is pretty common in 1 3/4" sizes, which are easily reground to 44mm. With the right fixture and a lathe that seems like a decent way to go.


Ground or turned?

Are cutting tools going to get through the hardened surface? Wouldn't you want to cut 'into' the leading edge, with it's undercut... which seems like death to cutters.

I've seen tool post-mounted grinders, but don't have one.


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## Winter Bicycles (Jun 8, 2008)

Ground by a tool sharpener (like the guys that would sharpen your other facing/ cutting tools)- they are essentially "over sharpening" from 44.45mm to 44mm. 

I won't say this is the best application, but its pretty common practice to have shell reamers ground to fit "odd" or specific sizes.


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## smdubovsky (Apr 27, 2007)

D.F.L. said:


> Are cutting tools going to get through the hardened surface? Wouldn't you want to cut 'into' the leading edge


No. A reamer like an endmill should be made of tool steel, though and through. Its hard EVERYWHERE.

You don't regrind the leading edge but the OD relief (I guess these would still be properly called the top and back relief respectively from the cutting edge's perspective.) I have a little KO Lee B360 tool and cutter grinder that Im restoring to do stuff like this. I also have a Weldon 200 air-bearing fixture to go on it that will sharpen/resize helical endmills and reamer shells like the one shown. If I can save a couple of worn endmills it'll pay for what I've got in the pair. But mostly it'll be fun to learn & play with FWIW, one of the only things you sharpen the leading(top) face on are rougher endmills due to their scalloped edges.


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## becik (May 5, 2008)

IceToolz is doing a god job for me.
I just bought my first HT reamer (one point five)
I used to borrow from the local bike shop for 1 1/8, but onepoint five is not common over here in Montreal, I couldn't find in any shop, (frame building is just absent over here...) 
I'm now, maybe, the only one around who got a onepointfive HT reamer...









https://www.lifu.biz/icetoolz/index_pro3.php?parent=49&id=272

Fit perfectly with the park handle... but for one point five needed a special (home made cone)
I only work aluminum so it is a lot easier for the tooling.
But for me so far so good.
And fit perfectly in my budget.


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## 18bikes (Jan 15, 2007)

does anyway know how deep the King reamer reams? looks like our icetools one is going to cause problems

matt


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*As deep as you want, GI!*

The King does reaming and facing as separate operations (which is a little bit of a pain, c'est la vie). You can drive the reamer all the way through the freakin' head tube if you really want to - there's no depth limit.

-Walt



18bikes said:


> does anyway know how deep the King reamer reams? looks like our icetools one is going to cause problems
> 
> matt


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