# *DIY* NiteRider Minewt 3W Luxon --> P4 SSC w/ pics



## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

I saw this posted on MTBR, but there were no pic's. I am a novice and thought this may help other folks out too. (x-posed on Bike Forums) 
Difficulty: easy
Time: <30 min
Cost: ~$8
Tools Needed: 
- SSC P4 Bare Emitter https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2026
- Thermal Paste https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4593
- Soldering Iron
- Solder (I used thin gauge silver solder)
- 2mm Allen
- Non-Perminant LocTite (I used blue, but green should work fine too)
- Tweezers or knife

Procedure:
-Remove (4) 2mm bolts from the light head. You don't have to remove the mounting bracket even though I did.
Gently wiggle the two pieces apart (should come away easily)
Exploded View









Stock Emitter:









Unscrew the two phillips screw heads (shown above) using a small screwdriver to release the circut board and emitter from heat-sink. Once complete pry up gently on the circut board with the knife or tweezers and wiggle the board out from the heat sink.









Parts seperated. Rear housing is just a heat sink with thermal paste making direct contact with the back of the LED.









Pre-solder the new LED leads with a dab of solder on each lead.









De-solder old LED. To do this I used a knife tip to gently pry up on the LED while touching the leads w/ the soldering iron. It popped right off. Here is the SSC (left) vs Luxeon (right) LED's next to eachother:









Install new LED. Since you pre-soldered the leads, you just have to position the LED onto the board, hold it w/ tweezers, and lightly touch each pre-soldered lead. The solder will flow right onto the circut board with only minimal heat applied.









Reassemble light. Apply a dab of thermal paste to the back of the LED so that a little squishes out when re-assembled. Use LocTite on the screws. When I pulled the light apart the first time I did not put any thread locker on the thread and when I went to pull apart the light this time 2 of the screws had backed out on their own.

Beam Shots:
Before:








Camear Settings: WB:Flourescent, F4.5, 1/2 sec exposure, manual focus set at infinity, center weighted metering, ISO: 200 . Target is appx 12 feet away.

After: (Same camera settings as above)









Second after shot. Since I don't have a light meter I figure my camera does. So set at the same ISO,metering, focus, F-stop, WB but let the camera figure out the shutter speed. (which it picked 1/5 sec)









The camera decided 1/5 sec was the correct exposure. So if think of it in terms of light, 1/4 sec expsure would mean the camera is seeing 2x the light as a 1/2 sec exposure. So 1/5 sec tells me I got a little more than double the light output.

Color temp changed a bit cooler which is fine by me. Center seems brighter with more spill.

Good luck all


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## cilantro13 (Jun 17, 2008)

Nice Hiroshima. I just got a Minewt Mini and am considering the same upgrade (only all I have are SSC P4 stars...)

But the how to with pictures is great. I will have to do the same with mine when I upgrade the LED.


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## Kam (Jan 12, 2004)

hiroshima....you're a stud....thanks!!!


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## shuffles (Oct 7, 2008)

Nice work Hiroshima; your pictures are a lot better than mine were!

Cilantro, when you do it, if you could get a before and after shot from the rider's perspective, not straight into the beam, that would be great!


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## playpunk (Apr 1, 2005)

is there any loss of runtime/dimming ability with the mod?


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

shuffles said:


> Nice work Hiroshima; your pictures are a lot better than mine were!
> 
> Cilantro, when you do it, if you could get a before and after shot from the rider's perspective, not straight into the beam, that would be great!


Not trying to besmirch your contribution at all..... but thanks for the kind words.

I would have done on-bike beam shots but it was raining last night ( I got soaked on my commute home because I did not ride my rain bike or have my rain gear) and needed to get my light setup for next week.

I will be getting LiteMania's new P7 Kentro light in a few weeks and will do comparison shots on the bike. But right after I took the shots I thought, damn, I should have waited for a dry day so I could do real beam-shots.:madman:

Next time.


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

playpunk said:


> is there any loss of runtime/dimming ability with the mod?


My understanding is the new emitter is acutally more efficient than the old Luxeon 3w so run-time is the same if not better. Basically I just retrofitted the LED to what is currently being shipped in Minewt X2 lights. They use the same battery and housing, just a different emitter. You can get a new X2 replacement head for ~$50 from quite a few places,... or $<10 and 30 min. I still may get a spare head because I swap bikes for my commute home a lot and I want a really bright flasher as well as a really bright headlight and swapping between bikes is a bit of a pain sometimes.

As far as dimming, it works the same as the old light. Dimm is not much diff than full bright and flash still works as well, but its even more annoying now


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

Hi, well job a well photos :thumbsup: 

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## Kahu (Sep 27, 2008)

Is this the same light as the minewt mini-usb?


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

Kahu said:


> Is this the same light as the minewt mini-usb?


 Not sure, this is the original Minewt.


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## shuffles (Oct 7, 2008)

It's not the same light. The USB version is a plastic housing simply glued together, and the USB version only has one mode, with no indicator lights on the battery unit switch. The old MiNewt and .x2 versions have a metal head that is held together by bolts, have three modes, and a charge level indicator light in the switch.

I did perform the same upgrade on the USB version with the same emitter, though, and it works great.


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## cilantro13 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Before and After Pics*

Yeah, I will give the before and after pics a try.


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## ben2e (Mar 6, 2005)

*Can this be done with Cree Q5 or P7 ?*

Perhaps that's what's mentioned earlier in the thread. I know at least the P7 may need more heat sync capacity. I was considering just getting a P7 based flashlight on a bar mount but the Minewt is a great idea for the structure.


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## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

ben2e said:


> Perhaps that's what's mentioned earlier in the thread. I know at least the P7 may need more heat sync capacity. I was considering just getting a P7 based flashlight on a bar mount but the Minewt is a great idea for the structure.


You would have to change the optics, but the P7 may still fit on the board, not sure. If you can find optics that are a direct swap over, post it up! I'm planning to upgrade my Minewt X2 Dual at some point, but I might just go with the U2SVOH P4s... I'd love a V bin P4, but no sign of that yet. It wouldn't actually give much of an increase in lumens, but having a warmer tint with some more red as opposed to the bluish tint would be awesome.


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## ben2e (Mar 6, 2005)

*P7*

Thanks, I found the P7 part and saw it was a bit larger so I think I"ll stick to the known and use the P4. I just ordered a minewt plus and will definitely plan on this upgrade. Now my only worry is if the light gets stolen in the bike cage at my office.


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## playpunk (Apr 1, 2005)

Does this mod double the 150 lumen minewt (last years?) --- From what I could find the p4 is rated to 240 lms. 

Is there any p7 info out there? I don't think I'm capable of fabricating housing, but I could probably struggle through plopping an emitter in a pre-wired, pre-built housing. And I'd be way more likely to do it if I thought I was going to get 700lms out of the light.


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## cilantro13 (Jun 17, 2008)

That would be a great idea, but the P7 takes considerably more amperage. The specs rates it at 400 lumens at 1.4 amps. By way of comparison, the P4 maxes out at 1A and 240 lumens. It looks like to max out the P7, you have to run 2.8 amps to the LED.

I am no electrical engineer, but I believe you might need a new battery pack (or would it just drain a standard MiNewt battery pack that much faster)? Somebody smarter than me should chime in, but you may want to hold off until you have an answer.


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## Jacobus (Jul 23, 2006)

So if I have a MiNewt.X2 rated at 150Lumens is the P4 an upgrade?


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## cilantro13 (Jun 17, 2008)

Yes. P4 at 1A is rated at 240 lumens. So on average you will be getting at least 220 lumens from a single SSC P4. (Keep in mind that the Cree P4's have significantly less lumens than the Seoul Semiconductor U-bin P4's).


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## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

cilantro13 said:


> That would be a great idea, but the P7 takes considerably more amperage. The specs rates it at 400 lumens at 1.4 amps. By way of comparison, the P4 maxes out at 1A and 240 lumens. It looks like to max out the P7, you have to run 2.8 amps to the LED.
> 
> I am no electrical engineer, but I believe you might need a new battery pack (or would it just drain a standard MiNewt battery pack that much faster)? Somebody smarter than me should chime in, but you may want to hold off until you have an answer.


No, you wouldn't need a new battery pack. The light would be a bit brighter, but not significantly so. The Vf would be similar due to the parallel wiring of the dies in the P7, and the current is controlled by the driver. So, unless you modified the driver or replaced it entirely, if anything the light would just be more efficient... a bit brighter, and maybe a bit longer runtime even. I haven't measured the reflector for my MiNewt X2, but unless there is an optic/reflector for the P7 which would be a perfect fit, I wouldn't bother and would just use a P4 (which I'm planning to do).


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## 2calif (Dec 14, 2008)

This is completely out of the subject, but could someone suggest me how I can post the way Hiroshima did? I mean with the text between the pictures. When I try to post I only attach the pictures after the text.


Awesome post Hiroshima!!

P


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

2calif said:


> This is completely out of the subject, but could someone suggest me how I can post the way Hiroshima did? I mean with the text between the pictures. When I try to post I only attach the pictures after the text.
> P


The pics are hosted elsewhere rather than attached.

blah blah blah








blah blah blah








etc


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## 2calif (Dec 14, 2008)

*Shuffles*

Hey Shuffles or anyone out there, help please.

How did you crack open the housing of Minewt Mini USB?

What did you use to glue it back together?

Did the P4 emitter fit the reflector ok?

Thanks for your kind help,

P


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## shuffles (Oct 7, 2008)

I put the head in a vice, and then used some channel lock pliers to gently twist the front half of the head. The glue then just released. BE CAREFUL, the lens and reflector may fall straight out onto the floor.

I just used SuperGlue to glue it back together.

Yes, the P4 is the exact same size as whatever came in it, which is also a P4 I think, but a lesser bin.


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## jjziets (Apr 14, 2010)

*highest efficacy lm/W 2010*

The SSC Seoul P4 U-bin came out in 2006-2007 has there not been a more efficient P4 sins then? where is the promised V W X Y bins  I see the Cree XP-G S2 boast a 148 Lm/Watt but the form factor is wrong!!! :madman: am i missing some thing?


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

You can get a U2 bin in the P4 but progress in the P4 appears to have stopped when SSC moved to the 4 die P7 LED.


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## jjziets (Apr 14, 2010)

Would it then work to put in a P7 E bin? it is hard to say if it will work looking at the mechanical drawings. :???:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

jjziets said:


> Would it then work to put in a P7 E bin? it is hard to say if it will work looking at the mechanical drawings. :???:


There is as yet no such thing as an E bin P7. It hasn't been made yet, same as the V bin P4.
And the P7 is too big physically.
U3 or U2 bin P4 is your best bet and will be a nice bump in brightness.


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## PCC (Sep 5, 2005)

shuffles said:


> It's not the same light. The USB version is a plastic housing simply glued together, and the USB version only has one mode, with no indicator lights on the battery unit switch. The old MiNewt and .x2 versions have a metal head that is held together by bolts, have three modes, and a charge level indicator light in the switch.
> 
> I did perform the same upgrade on the USB version with the same emitter, though, and it works great.


The Minewt Mini-USB head is half plastic, half aluminum. The front half is plastic and glued to an aluminum back side. The all-aluminum Minewt head is heavier as a result of the aluminum front half and are screwed together with four screws. The LED that they use in these lights is probably a T or U bin as the U bin I put into my Mini-USB didn't make a difference in brightness that I could tell. I'm thinking of putting an XP-G R5 mounted to a large star into the Minewt head that I bought from fleabay and have modified to be used with my Mini-USB battery. The earlier Minewt head (the original one) had a Luxeon III emitter in it. That was the one that I picked up from fleabay.


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## rearviewmirror (Jun 14, 2006)

Good thread! I've got two sets of Mi-Newts... The real question for the OP, is it really that much better over the OE emitter? Enough to upgrade? I've got the X2's so I'd have to change the emitter in both heads. Since I have two sets of Mi-Newts it would be interesting to upgrade one set and compare the light output.

Is there a set of RED LED's that this mod would work with? I would really like to convert one set of MiNewts to a super obnoxious taillight.


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## black_taco (Apr 12, 2005)

Would using a P4 SSC still be a good choice for the Minewt Mini upgrade? Is there an even better emitter to use since the creation of this thread?


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## [jsl] (Sep 20, 2007)

black_taco said:


> Would using a P4 SSC still be a good choice for the Minewt Mini upgrade? Is there an even better emitter to use since the creation of this thread?


SSC P4 is quite outdated these days. I would imagine any current top-of-the-line LED would be a good choice, i.e. Cree XP-G (R5 bin) or XM-L (T6 or U2 bin).


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## ballsofcottonwool (Jun 4, 2009)

> Would using a P4 SSC still be a good choice for the Minewt Mini upgrade? Is there an even better emitter to use since the creation of this thread?


Anything other than something in a P4 style LED makes the mod much more involved as you need to find a way of mounting a tiny surface mount device to the heatsink. There are some photos on my flickr account (same user name) of a mode i've done with a CREE XM-L.


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## black_taco (Apr 12, 2005)

ballsofcottonwool-
I am very well equipped to handle the housing mods as I am a machinist by trade. The part that I am still in the dark about is what exact components do I need to buy and from where? I apologize for my lack of LED expertise but look forward to learning more. I am very curious about how much of a performance difference since the modification. In your opinion how many more lumens would you guess or have you read? Looking forward!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

If you change to an emitter other than a P4, the stock reflector may not work very well either. Since you are a machinist you ought to build a housing. Then you can use whatever combination of emitter and optic or reflector that gives a beam to suit your preference.


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## black_taco (Apr 12, 2005)

Down the road I would really like to build my own. It is just that I do not have the knowledge or the lingo and what components are outdated and what components are cutting edge so I can't really move forward until I learn more. Currently I am just looking to perform a fairly easy modification to take advantage of the changing LED technology and to get my feet wet with the stuff so to speak.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Wow... so is there room in there for a better emitter? 

The last generation of this NR light form factor kicked out 350 lumens per head. Has anybody had a MiNewt 350 or dual head 700 apart? what are they using in those things? I'm guessing it isn't a P4 since it goes way brighter. P4s seem to top out around 190 lumens. 

I'm interested in a dual head setup for the bars with the tiny light heads. That setup would rawk, but only if it was cheap enough to do and was reliable.

I've seen a couple of dual head 150 lumen units on craigslist for $80. If I could cheaply mod it to 500+ lumens that would be sweet.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

pimpbot the problem you have with upgrading small light heads is dealing with the heat from the more powerful LEDs driven at a higher current. Post up a link to the sort of thing you are talking about from Craigs list and someone might be able to give you a better answer


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

you can put an XM-L in there, which should give you 350-400lm at the stock 1A and a wider (but better IMO) beam pattern. The downside is that you'll need to find some way of using the yellow wire (status) to voltage sense. It's normally done by 2 small resistors on the circuit board like this: + Res Stat Res -.

I've dealt with that in 2 ways, by keeping the whole board, flipping it round and stick a cut up XM-L on the back (very time consuming) and, secondly, by cutting out that bit of the board with the 2 stat LEDs and resistors, then wired it in parallel to the + and - wires going to the XM-L. There are plenty of pictures on the "Minewt something or other XM-L upgrade". There was also a suggestion to just use two 1 or 1.1kO resistors and ditch the board entirely, but I haven't had a chance to try that (you'd also lose the stat LEDs, but that's not terribly important). Oh, and you can use a Regina reflector if you want a tighter spot (check out the beamshot thread, the upgraded Minewt is in there).

All 3 people whose Minewts I've upgraded like this have absolutely loved the change. The increase in light output is substantial.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

emu26 said:


> pimpbot the problem you have with upgrading small light heads is dealing with the heat from the more powerful LEDs driven at a higher current. Post up a link to the sort of thing you are talking about from Craigs list and someone might be able to give you a better answer


I'm talking about the dual head MiNewt x2, or whatever its called. The 2010 version had an emitter that would do 350 lumens per head.

I was hoping for more efficiency. If it's dropping the same current, it should not get any hotter... as in, the 'all energy in a closed system is consumed', rule. It either comes out as light or heat if it's consuming the same amount of battery power.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

yep, you should get a brighter (80-100% depending on model) light with 10-20% longer runtime. If you have a Minewt or can get one super cheap, it's not a bad idea. I'm not convinced that it's worth spending much money on though, especially with the effort involved and the availability of MUCH brighter lights for not much money from China


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

pimpbot said:


> I was hoping for more efficiency. If it's dropping the same current, it should not get any hotter... as in, the 'all energy in a closed system is consumed', rule. It either comes out as light or heat if it's consuming the same amount of battery power.


True, as long as the current stays the same. I did a swap of a Luxeon1 to an XPG in my backpacking headlamp. The driver it uses is affected by the lower Vf of the XPG and it resulted in approximately another 100mA additional current to the LED. It still was a great mod as I now run it mostly on the lowest setting.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I hope I'm not coming across as a prick or anything Vancbiker, given how much I'm contradicting you, but the current draw was the same - I tested with both the P4 and the XM-L. Both were 1A high, 500mA low.

I did however accidentally change the low mode in one light to flashing by buggering around with the battery. No idea how and completely unrelated to ^, but it was rather odd.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

mattthemuppet said:


> I hope I'm not coming across as a prick or anything Vancbiker, given how much I'm contradicting you, but the current draw was the same - I tested with both the P4 and the XM-L. Both were 1A high, 500mA low.


Hey Matt.. no worries there! I only related my experience with a swap (not NR) that current through the LED is something to keep an eye on if someone attempts a swap. There is so little tech info available on the drivers in LED lights that I think it is a bit of a crap shoot as to what the true result will be on a swap.

A true constant current LED driver will supply the target current regardless of the LED Vf. Look at Taskled specs as a great example. I suspect that the "driver" in the Pelican headlamp that I swapped the XPG into uses a PWM scheme for "current limiting" to set the levels and flash mode.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

phew! The driver in the minewt pack is a beast - it's as long and almost as wide as the 1p2s battery. I actually spent a while looking at it, trying to figure out what the hell everything was supposed to do, then gave up and put it all back together. I think it also controls the battery charging some how too.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

I dunno... it was just a thought. I already have two Magicshine MJ808s, one I run on the bars, one on my lid. They are way plenty bright, and truth be told I run them on low and medium most of the time anyway. It's just that they are pretty cheaply made, and the 'mode' thing they have going on is badly designed. I have to turn the light off to go down in brightness, which is stupid IMO. Maybe there is a fix for that with a newer driver board or something. 

I really liked the NR MiNewt form factor... the heads are a perfect size. 

Meh... I have more important things to spend my money on... I do like to tinker with this stuff, tho.


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