# Fat Tandems Builders accommodating 100mm rim w/ 4.8" tire



## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

I'm hoping to gather some intel as to who is actually building fat tandems that accommodate a really big rim/tire combo (100mm rim with 4.8" tire)

Specifically:
What builder is building or plans to build a frame that can accommodate the *biggest tire/rim combo available? (100mm rim with 4.8" tires)?*

For those that meet the criteria above, what drive train are you running? Cranks?

What forks are you running?

How are the rear hubs working out with tandem loads?

Whatever else is relevant, chime in.

Thanks for your input!


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

I think Scott Quiring would be the one to ask about making something that big. When I had our double-Pugs built, I considered using two Moonlanders instead, but heard that the high offset wheel/chainstay makes for a noodle-y ride. What is your team weight? Are you riding in really deep conditions?


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

deuxdiesel said:


> I think Scott Quiring would be the one to ask about making something that big. When I had our double-Pugs built, I considered using two Moonlanders instead, but heard that the high offset wheel/chainstay makes for a noodle-y ride. What is your team weight? Are you riding in really deep conditions?


Thanks for following up. As far as I can tell, Quiring is the only one making such a tandem at this point.

You asked if I am riding in really deep conditions? I would say that really deep conditions on a tandem are likely not going to work. The added weight makes things harder, but that is why I'd like to have the biggest tire/rim possible. I run a 4.8 on 80mm rims and that is more than I need a lot of the time (but I'm only 155 lbs). I think I could get away with 4.0 tires on my single bike and be fine most of the time.

I'd like to have the best possibility of riding the tandem in snow. The groomed trails or snow-shoe'd trails will likely work best, but we're up for trying to see what we can do.

What I'm trying to avoid is buying a tandem that is limited at an 80mm rim and wishing that I could just try those fatter rims.

In the end, 100mm rims and 5" tires may not be "enough", but I'd sure like to try!

Regarding your double pugs your consideration of the Moonlander, I have actually thought about a double Ice Cream truck. :idea:


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

Actually, a tandem ICT would be great, but by the time you bought two frames ($700-ish each) and the extra tubing and labor to join them, you are looking at close to the same price as a custom Quiring. I went with the Pugs because I already had one, plus a bunch of donor parts, so I only needed to buy one extra frame, which are pretty cheap.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

DS, not to derail your topic of 100mm rim width, but FWIW, our local guy running a 29 ECDM has intentions of building a rear wheel with the Russian CF rims.

He seems confident this will fit, but not sure what tire he plans to run. Obviously this will not be for snow, but rather softer sandy conditions which should be similar.

Pretty certain it is this rim, but I could be wrong.

Naran 80 Carbon Fat Bike Rims | Sarma USA

If you want, I can let you know how it fits / works. Not sure what his time frame is to accomplish this. You can even call and ask...Tommy @ The Bicyclery , 561.684.8444.

PK


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

Thanks PK!

Let me know what they work out. I can't imagine a very large tire can fit inside an ECDM rear triangle, but interested to here the result!


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

Ventana is building tandems with the clearance for 100mm rims and 4.8" tires. They are building both 170mm rear spacing and 190/197 rear spacing. In my opinion the 190/197 is needed for the big tires or you will have chain rub on the tire on the large rings on the cassette. We have ordered a 197 thru axle version and will be building it as a 1x10 with right side drive so we can use standard fat bike cranks instead of tandem specific cranks. We are planning on running Dillinger 5 studded tires on it but still deciding on whether we can get by with 80-90mm rims or we need to go with 100mm clown shoes. We are on the third generation of single fat bikes and are running 1x10 with 11-40 cassettes and it works fine so it should work fine on the tandem. You just don't need the big gears on fat bikes. Fork choices are limited so I think we will use a rigid fork at this point again due to the fact of the large tires don't need the suspension for the most part. Another unknown is hubs as there are very few choices in the 190/197 spacing and none tandem rated. If you are really planning on running it in snow etc then regular hubs may be fine as the the traction is certainly limited. This will be a winter bike only for us as we have a Ventana ECDM already for summer use. The first batch of frames is supposed to be ready in about 2 weeks


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

akexress, this is good news!

I had hopes of going the Ventana route, we actually had an order in for a frame, but then there were delays and then they changed to only doing 170/177 spacing, so we decided to wait. Apparently they changed back to also offering "custom" 190/197 spacing, so that is encouraging.

I am very interested to hear how a clownshoe with a 4.8 Dillinger or Lou fit on that 190 frame (if you go with a clownshoe). Please keep me updated on your tandem build either here or offline. I was discouraged from the wider rear spacing when working through my original order, so I am very interested to hear how it all comes together.

I know that hubs are a limiting factor, but as you said, we would plan to ride it primarily on snow as we have another bike for dirt. We had planned on doing 1x with right side drive too. Currently looking at other frame builders as well, more to come on that as I get info.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

I am considering a Ventana build as well. I will likely go 170mm rear as I plan on doing a Rolhoff Speedhub XL. Being that I only have to deal with one cog, I plan on running 80mm rims (looking at the Bontrager Jackalope) with 5" tires. Yes, I know it will not be a true 5" contact patch, but it's close. 
RE: Fork. RockShox doesn't have any objections to it's use of the Bluto on the El Gran Jefé, but they do not endorse it. I'll likely go with the I9 hub. So I will give it a shot. This bike will not be enduring hardcore single track, so I suspect it will be up to the duty. 
This will be my first tandem build, but my fifth fat build. I've got lots of experience on the fat side, but I none on the tandem side. If you have any feedback, I'd welcome it.


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

Bacons said:


> I am considering a Ventana build as well. I will likely go 170mm rear as I plan on doing a Rolhoff Speedhub XL. Being that I only have to deal with one cog, I plan on running 80mm rims (looking at the Bontrager Jackalope) with 5" tires. Yes, I know it will not be a true 5" contact patch, but it's close.
> RE: Fork. RockShox doesn't have any objections to it's use of the Bluto on the El Gran Jefé, but they do not endorse it. I'll likely go with the I9 hub. So I will give it a shot. This bike will not be enduring hardcore single track, so I suspect it will be up to the duty.
> This will be my first tandem build, but my fifth fat build. I've got lots of experience on the fat side, but I none on the tandem side. If you have any feedback, I'd welcome it.


We live Anchorage , Alaska and internal hubs have not done well with the cold. It is not super cold here so a Rolhoff was a initial consideration for us until I started doing some research and the only people whom have had some success are using cleaning fluid in them instead of the normal oil. We started out on singles with 135 offset then went to 170 and now have settled on the 197 thru axle and it really works well. We also started out 3x9 then 2x10 and now 1x10. The popular set up here is a Sram 11-36 converted with a Wolf 40 tooth swap and a 30 tooth chainring. We have been running that on the singles for two years and it works well. I am going to use that same setup on the tandem. We are planning on the the 907 carbon Whiteout fork even though it is not tandem rated it is built robustly. We do not get air on winter bikes and certainly won't on the tandem so I am not expecting problems. Right side drive will be pretty straight forward and have ordered single fat cranks for 190mm spacing. Ventana has there own 100mm eccentric that comes with the frames. I am pretty decided on 90mm Nextie carbon rims as they are only a few dollars more then clown shoes and much lighter. I will probably consider running tubeless. Tandem fat bikes are on the rare side so this is uncharted territory. I was able to discuss at length with Sherwood at Ventana and we are excited to get a frame. We have two of his ECDM tandems and have had great experiences with them and good support. The 190/197 is a custom option with an up charge from Ventana but still a value compared to road tandems. I am thinking 180mm rotors will be adequate for the fat tire tandem for winter use but would want 203 for summer use. Mechanical discs brakes are the way to go in the cold as few people deal with hydraulics on winter bikes and the traction is limited enough you don't need them. Carbon bars will help with cold hands and some nice pogies make it toasty.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback. I've scrapped the plan for the Rolhoff as I really want to build a 29+ wheelset for summer use. So I am going to give Shimano's new XTR M9000 line a shot for a 1x11 set-up. 
Do you think the Nextie rims are up to the load task? I'm 205lbs., and my stokers will be anywhere from 80lbs. up to 170lbs. So loaded up, total rider weight could reach 400lbs. 
Brake suggestions? I've looked at Hope but I've had such great experience with Shimano's XT/XTR on my other rides. 
Ventana frame is being ordered this week.


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

Bacons said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I've scrapped the plan for the Rolhoff as I really want to build a 29+ wheelset for summer use. So I am going to give Shimano's new XTR M9000 line a shot for a 1x11 set-up.
> Do you think the Nextie rims are up to the load task? I'm 205lbs., and my stokers will be anywhere from 80lbs. up to 170lbs. So loaded up, total rider weight could reach 400lbs.
> 
> Brake suggestions? I've looked at Hope but I've had such great experience with Shimano's XT/XTR on my other rides.
> Ventana frame is being ordered this week.


I think the nextie rims should be up to the task . I am going to use the 90 mm wild dragons. I have built a few sets of the Nextie 650b rims and we have put some good miles on them and have been tough. As it will take a while to get them and build them up I will just use a set of rolling daryls that I have built on 907 hubs. I think fat bike rims are inherently strong due to the wide hub flanges and offset spoke holes on the rims especially in 170 or 190 hub spacing. The tires also absorb so much of the shock loading that you almost never hear of wheel failures other then hub issues. As far as brakes in the winter I don't think you need hydraulic as there is just not enough traction to really over stress the brakes however if you plan on running 29r in the summer then yes they might help. We have Hope v2 on both of our mountain tandems and they will stop a truck The only other issue is seal problems in the winter. We have only run mechanical discs on the winter and very few people run hydraulics in the winter here for that reason. Run as large of rotor as you can especially for summer use. I am going to use 180mm avid BB7 for the winter. One other issue is you need a stoker stem that will accommodate a 30.9mm seat post most are too small Control tech does make them in two different adjustable lengths. The 1x11 XTR should be a great choice, what cranks are you planning on using. Word from Ventana today is shipping in about 2 weeks.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks akexpress. GREAT feedback! (and sorry to the OP for hi-jacking your thread).
I will take a look at the 80mm Nextie rim. 
I think I will go XTR for brakes. I run them all winter on my El Gordo (and my previous Mukluk) with great success. I do bleed them at the beginning of the Winter season as any bit of air in the lines will cause issues in low temp weather. 
Cranksets? I am leaning towards the Race face Turbine (cinch system). My LBS is currently researching this for me.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

Bacons said:


> Thanks akexpress. GREAT feedback! (and sorry to the OP for hi-jacking your thread)...
> I


No worries. It's good to hear what people are doing on their builds and comparing to my own plans. As akexpress noted, tandem fatbikes are rare, and a lot of this is uncharted, so its good to hear all of the details!

I'll be interested to hear how everything comes together after the build and


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## switchbacktrog (May 10, 2013)

Bacons said:


> I think I will go XTR for brakes.


Have you considered up-grading to Saints?


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Good call. A more downhill oriented brake may be ideal for this build. Thanks.


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

I agree that Hydrualics are better and if you are going to use it year round it will be a better choice. I would then stick to Shimano due to use of mineral oil which does not absorb water so may have less issues in the freezing temps in winter. It will be fun to watch how the fat tandems shakeout here in a few weeks/months.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Update. Frame and fork have been ordered. Updated specs:
Ventana El Gran Jefé (white color), going with the 177x12TA rear
Borealis Echo Carbon fork (150x15TA)
Raceface cranks
XTR Drivetrain (M9000 1x11)
Shimano Saint Brakes (180mm rear, 203mm front)
Last piece of the puzzle are wheels. I9 hubs are a definite. However, still on fence with rims. I am down to the Bontrager Jakalope or the Whisky carbons. Love to do the Whisky... but it is coming down to cost. The Whisky's are spendy.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

Bacons said:


> Update. Frame and fork have been ordered. Updated specs:
> Ventana El Gran Jefé (white color), going with the 177x12TA rear
> Borealis Echo Carbon fork (150x15TA)
> Raceface cranks
> ...


Awesome!

Did you talk to Borealis regarding the weight limit on their fork? Do they know it is going on a tandem? I'd guess they would discourage us from using it, but am curious nevertheless. Also, a lot of carbon forks have a size limit on rotor size, did you ask if they have any concerns with a 203 rotor with that fork?

Thanks and keep us posted on the build!


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

My LBS did chat with them around the fork strength and the use-case (Tandem). They felt is was up to the task. Keep in mind, this bike will not be bombing a rocky mountain downhill at 30mph. This will be a snow and single track trekker. 
I do run a Bluto on my El Gordo and I will be interchanging forks. So this will give me some flexibly.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

...oh sorry, forgot to address your rotor question. It 'should' be able to accommodate a 203 rotor. However, if not, I am fairly certain running a 180/180 combo would be plenty of power. Stay tuned. More updates as they happen.
I am also considering running a 4.8" tire up front, 4" rear. By the time the build is done, the Schwalbe Jumbo Jims should be available.


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

I have a set of 90 mm Wild dragon carbon rims by Nextie on the way and will be using Hope Fatsno hubs in 197/135. I am also using a single bike fat fork. I know the owners of 907 well and they are quite confident that their carbon whiteout fork is up to the tandem task. We already have two of them on singles and they are robust. I will go with as big of rotors will fit and and for sure a 203 will fit on the fork the frame is an unknown at this point. Dillinger 5 studded running tubeless for tires. 1x10 with oneup 40t conversion on race face cranks. Unfortunately I heard from Ventana that the frames are going to be a bit late as one of their welders was out sick last week. Will post pics of build as it progresses.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

AK and other's with tandem crank experience. The BB will be 100mm front and back. Since I will be running a 1x11 set-up, would you do left or right side timing? Do you see any issues with Race Face (and if so, other crank recommendations)? Thanks!


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

I think right side timing *with 1x* is a no-brainer. My plans are to use the RF Cinch cranks Front & Rear.

I have experimented with 2x with right side timing chain and it requires perfect front deraileur adjustment and even then, I've seen occasional issues.

I do not recommend right side with 2x. (my .02 cents)


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Standard RF rings or would you go narrow-wide? 
My plan as of now is RF Turbine w/ cinch.


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

I have been happy with our 1x Pugsley tandem. I have a 26T grannys for my right side timing chain, and a 34T SS ring in the stoker's outer position linked to a 9 speed 12/34 rear cassette. No very fast, but it has decent range for moving a heavy load over rough surfaces.


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

Bacons said:


> AK and other's with tandem crank experience. The BB will be 100mm front and back. Since I will be running a 1x11 set-up, would you do left or right side timing? Do you see any issues with Race Face (and if so, other crank recommendations)? Thanks!


The advantage of running right side drive with 1x10 or 1x11 is you can use regular fat bike cranks that are set up for 2x. The are really no true fat bike tandem cranks but you would have to use Middleburn or some other square drive cranks that you can get a long 100mm spindle. As I am having our frame 190 rear spacing Sherwood recommended fat bike cranks for 190 spacing which have a longer spindle and use spacers so the crank arm clears the frame. I have Race Face Ride cranks for this purpose . As this is not a weight weenie build by any stretch these cranks will do the job fine and are cheap. For me I think ride side is going to work just fine.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Great, thanks all.


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

Bacons
I know you are set on hydraulics but be aware you will need to make custom hydraulic hose for the rear brake and bleed it. I have Shimano RS 785 on our Calfee road tandem and they are a pain to bleed the long hose. You might read the thread on here under fat bikes "mechanical vs hydraulic". I love the power of the hydraulics but may not be a great fit for winter. JMHO YRMV


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

Got our fat tire tandem frame from Ventana yesterday and should have the build done tonight. Will post pics tomorrow I hope before we take to a fat tire festival. Serial no 2 I think the first one went to Switzerland a few weeks ago.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Excellent! Looking forward to seeing your build.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

akexpress said:


> Got our fat tire tandem frame from Ventana yesterday and should have the build done tonight. Will post pics tomorrow I hope before we take to a fat tire festival. Serial no 2 I think the first one went to Switzerland a few weeks ago.


Would like to see some pictures, please!


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

AK... what are you using for a stoker stem? The seatpost diameter is 30.9mm. I am looking for a silver/polished stem.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

Bacons said:


> AK... what are you using for a stoker stem? The seatpost diameter is 30.9mm. I am looking for a silver/polished stem.


I don't know about silver/polished, but in black you can get a Control Tech Tandem Stoker stem, Handlebar(31.8mm) Seatpost(31.6mm) 190-230mm and then get a problem solvers shim.

PS - just got my El Gran Jefe frame - Serial # 3. Hope to get it built early next week.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks DS. Post up picks as you build!


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

First pictures
here are our build specs
Small Ventana el Gran Jefe / Mango Tango color
135/ 197 thru axles
Hope fatsno hubs, sapin spokes, brass nipples
Nextie 90 mm Wild dragon carbon rims running tubeless
Dillinger 5 studded tires
11-40 Sram cassette with one up conversion
1x10 with Raceface 30 tooth chainring Race face ride cranks 190mm spacing right side drive
Easton Carbon riser bars
Control tech Stoker stem
race face alu seat posts 
Wtb seats
BB7brakes 180/160 may get larger rotors after we get some miles on to figure it out
Sram XO grip shift right shifter
Sram x9 rear derailleur
9 speed timing chain
907 Whiteout carbon fork with cane creek headset


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Well done! Looks fantastic. 
Out of curiosity... how much does she weigh?


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

don't know yet will weigh it in a bit , not sure I want to know!!!!


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

ds2199 said:


> I don't know about silver/polished, but in black you can get a Control Tech Tandem Stoker stem, Handlebar(31.8mm) Seatpost(31.6mm) 190-230mm and then get a problem solvers shim.
> PS - just got my El Gran Jefe frame - Serial # 3. Hope to get it built early next week.


One layer of a soda can works great as a shim not elegant but functional and hidden, it is only .7mm difference.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Fat!


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

AK... can you shoot some close up pics of the driveline? In particular, the stoker crankset. I'd like to see how you have the timing chain set-up.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

Bacons said:


> AK... can you shoot some close up pics of the driveline? In particular, the stoker crankset. I'd like to see how you have the timing chain set-up.


Interested in this too. It looks like you are running the timing chain inboard. I had a preconceived idea that I'd run the timing chain outboard. I'm now guessing that the chainline may be better with timing chain inboard.

I'm pretty psyched to get ours built up, but we're not going to be able to ride it for a couple of weeks due to previously scheduled weekend activities... ugh!


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

Bacons said:


> AK... can you shoot some close up pics of the driveline? In particular, the stoker crankset. I'd like to see how you have the timing chain set-up.


Here you go BTW it weights 44 lbs




















I think I can move the outer ring back to the inside of the spider if I get some spacers to move the inner chainring to the inside for chain clearance between the two chain rings. I have about 2mm more clearance that I could use. I could also run the timing chain on the outside again if I used some spacers but this way seems to work ok and I did not need to space anything out. Since I have 190 spacing my chain line is not bad and it shifts fine with the 1x10. Any other configuration would have required me to use spacers and 10 speed chain for the timing chain ( I already had some 9 speed chains around because they are cheap). It is well below zero here today so maybe this afternoon we will get a real ride.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks! 
Re: Drive ring. I think we are going to experiment as well... inner or outer. I'm going to be running a bit different gearing (1x11) with the 170 rear. 26t on the timing chains. We'll see how this all pans out. 
I appreciate the knowledge and feedback from all you guys.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We may be looking at the Jefe as an upgrade from our Fandango.29we, I was.looking at the El conquistador FS, but I think between fatter tires and a lower.ride height we can get a better.handling tandem. I'm looking at running it with 650 b+ three season, fatty in the winter/ mud.

Do you.guys already ride tandem or is the Jefe your first tandem?

You.may want more low end, i.e. 2 x 10, tandems need much lower gearing than singles.

Does.this tandem only come as a 1x ?? That Mau be a no go for us. We.stay in the inner chaining 24t on most of our trail rides.

I wonder if Ventana could do a custom swingman for the El to accommodate.fat tires....

Any feedback on the Bluto.For tandem use?

Take care with the 11sp cassette, narrow chain, and the aftermarket.cogs, tandem are tough.on deliberating. We blew up.a Hope freebody after five rides, that was a middleweight team, sport riding.


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## akexpress (Dec 19, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> We may be looking at the Jefe as an upgrade from our Fandango.29we, I was.looking at the El conquistador FS, but I think between fatter tires and a lower.ride height we can get a better.handling tandem. I'm looking at running it with 650 b+ three season, fatty in the winter/ mud.
> 
> Do you.guys already ride tandem or is the Jefe your first tandem?
> 
> ...


 We are quite an experienced tandem team with the Fefe being our fourth tandem that we actively ride. We own a Calfee Di2 coupled road tandem and two El Conquistador FS a 26 and a 29r coupled. This bike will not be ridden in summer I don't think ,we built it for winter use. We also have lots of fat bike single experience so we designed it around our winter needs and experience as to what works. Here in Alaska the Bluto fork does not work well as the seals leak in the cold and the even Borelais seal kit makes the Bluto have to much friction. Traction is a big limiting factor in snow and ice and the 1x10 works just fine with a 30x40 low gear as you can't climb much steeper that you need more grunt as you just spin out. We have noticed on the same rides we are quite a bit faster on the Fefe then our single fat bikes. I agree that hubs are a problem on the fat bike and would much prefer a set of Chris Kings as they have been bullet proof on the other mtn tandems. Again due to traction I am hoping the Hope hubs with hold up. There are very few hub choices for 190 rear spacing. I think a 650b full suspension would be a great choice for a three season tandem and I think Sherwood will build the ECDM in 650B We have taken our mtn tandems to Moab multiple times and had a blast but like the full suspension for those rides and would not take the Jefe. MHO YRMV


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Our Jefé will be our first mtn. tandem. I am also considering building up a set of summer wheels. I am leaning towards 26"+ or 29"+ (i.e. 45~50mm rim). I'd look at a 27.5" as I think that may be the sweet spot... but there is very little rim/tire choices. Since you guys are the experts, what would you go with [for summer]?


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

We have other tandems, so the el Gran Jefe will not be our only tandem, as a result, I'm not too worried about the gearing for this bike. It will have its specific purpose, primarily snow. We've ridden 2x10 and 3x10 for trail riding. The 3x seems to work very well for us, but we actually don't use the big ring much (nice to have on a long gravel stretch though).

Regarding the wheels, I am partial to the 29" wheels with a wider profile (Blunt 35 have treated us well or MTX 33 are supposed to be very strong). If I were building a set of wheels now, I'd MAYBE even look at the Nextie or Light-Bikes carbon rim with the wide-ish profile. That said, I can't comment on the durability for tandem use, but I know of at least one couple who is riding the Light bikes carbon rim on their mtb tandem. So far so good, but I don't think they have put it through the tests so to speak. 

I can't comment on the really wide rims from personal experience, but do prefer the 35mm Velocity rim to some other narrower rims that I have ridden in the past.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

You need strong wheels, 40h hubs are limited, none that I know of in wide. So 36h or 32h are your options and in wide hubs it may only be 32h, in whcih case a straight gauge spoke might reduce breakage. I have Velocity rims, they are okay, they tend to be a little soft which makes building them a little tricky. The WTB Scaper or the Velocity Dually would be fine. I have some 650b Dually's waiting on a build, they're very similar to the Blunt 35.

Hubs, they all break, get the ones you like and see how it goes. We trashed a Hope Freehub body in ten rides, it might have been due to rim shift, so a Maxle in the backend should help prevent that.

A 650b+ is comparable in height to a 26 x 4, but 650b+ tires are still pretty limited; that seems to be a growth area...

I spoke to Sherwood at Ventana and the only options to run a 2 x 10 would be to buy three sets of drive cranks or go with a square taper BB. I have spun cranks on a square taper, so I ain't going there. 

I'm thinking 26t/28t, combined with an 11-42 ghetto should be fine, we would probably have a 30/32 in the tool box in case we traveled somewhere flat, though I doubt we really "need" the top end as we rarely use the middle chainring now and never use the large chainring.

If only we could get a full suspension fatty tandem, yummy!

Edit: I just went hkiing and thunk it over, I am so ready to order one before we leave for our Spring road trip at the end of March.

My build so far:

Jefe sz Large, Mango Tango, maybe Grinch Green which goes good with purple, or a custom color (Candy Red) depending on timing
Bluto 100mm, volume spacers to increase progession
Thompson post frontThudbuster Large out back
Cane Creek Angleset depending on how it ride; I like slack.
150/170 thru axle Hope fat hubs, Marge Lites 65mm
On One Floaters or similar burly sidewall tire, Q tubes w/sealant
TRP Spyke, Avid Speed Dial
X9 drive train, 11-42 with a Wolf Cog
GSA Comet Fat cranks front and rear, they have a better BB than RF, and they're priced right
Purple Fixation pedals, already got these 
Kore low rise bar up front, something girly out back (Mary)
Ergo cork grips.
Short low rise stem up front, adjustable stoker stem with oversized clamp out back


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

First ride tonight. Yes, it was a blast! :rockon:

Details on build spec to follow


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Excellent! Looks great. Post up your specs.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Has anyone ridden the Jefe on dirt single track? 

How does the ride compare to other tandems you've ridden, i.e. slower/faster handling?

How sensitive is the tandem to tire pressure front/rear? What pressures are you running?

Does your stoker feel like the ride is "cushier" than a skinny tire tandem??

What frame size are you riding? What are your heights and what frame sizes due you run on your other tandem(s)?


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

ds2199 said:


> First ride tonight. Yes, it was a blast! :rockon:
> 
> Details on build spec to follow
> 
> View attachment 965080


Update with build specs:
Small Ventana el Gran Jefe / Raw Aluminum color
150 / 197 thru axles
Industry nine hubs Nextie 90 mm Wild dragon carbon rims running tubeless
Bud & Lou tires
11-42 Sram cassette with Wolftooth conversion
1x10 with 28t tooth chainring Race face ride cinch cranks 190mm spacing right side drive and RF Bash guards (FR & RR)
Easton Carbon bars low rise (FR) High rise (RR)
Control tech Stoker stem
Thompson (FR) & Niner (RR) seat posts 
Wtb Rocket V (FR) & Terry Liberator Gel (RR)
TRP Spyke brakes 203 Shimano rotors, Avid Speed Dial Levers
Sram XO Shifter
Sram XO, type 2 rear derailleur
10sp chains all around
RS Bluto fork with cane creek headset, I will likely test out a rigid fork as well.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Here's my list:

Large Ventana el Gran Jefe / white w/American flag graphics
150 / 177 thru axles
Industry nine hubs/spokes (blue) with Whisky rims
VanHelga 4" 60tpi tires
1x11 Middleburn Cranks/BB, right side drive (polished silver with red and blue spiders)
Whisky No. 7 carbon riser bars F&R
Ergon GA1 Grips F&R
Control tech Stoker stem (silver)
Thomson X4 Stem (polished silver)
Loaded Precision seatposts F&R (polished silver)
WTB Pure V Saddles F&R
Magura MT5 Next Disc Brake, 203MM rotors
Shimano XTR M9000 shifter
Shimano XTR M9000 rear derailleur
Shimano XTR M9000 11-spd cassette
Shimano XTR 11spd rear & 10spd timing chains
Rock Shox Bluto fork
Chris King headset

Frame is at my LBS. Awaiting wheels and various parts. 
I purposely built this bike so the wheels and fork will be interchangeable with my El Gordo. That bike is currently spec'ed with a Mule Füt/I9 wheelset (150mm & 170/177 hub spacing) and a Borealis Carbon fork. Borealis did not endorse their fork for tandem use. However, I do plan on putting it on for gravel and very mild single track runs. 

Thanks again to all of you that offered me advice on my first tandem build. Pics coming soon.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Bacons said:


> various parts.
> I purposely built this bike so the wheels and fork will be interchangeable with my El Gordo. That bike is currently spec'ed with a Mule Füt/I9 wheelset (150mm & 170/177 hub spacing) and a Borealis Carbon fork. Borealis did not endorse their fork for tandem use. However, I do plan on putting it on for gravel and very mild single track runs.
> 
> Thanks again to all of you that offered me advice on my first tandem build. Pics coming soon.


^This, an excellent idea, I have the same thought in mind. I'm thinking of starting with a 650b+ with Trax Fatty; since winter barely arrived and appears to be leaving quickly, then build the 26" set up next Fall.

I'm thinking about a Bucksaw or Foes


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