# First welding kit for frame building



## Cablestein (Nov 14, 2008)

Hi

TIG seems to be the most highly recommended welding setup for anyone doing bicycle frames, but what is the next ideal setup? Oxy-Ace brazing?

MIG - people say it's too hot and cumbersome for thin wall tubing
Stick/Arc - same as above
Flux-core - same as above, but people also claiming lots of spatter
Oxy-Ace - Use only for lugs?

I just don't have the money to spend on a TIG setup but I'd like to weld sh~t, I have an empty double garage as a working space, and I have done stick welding and oxy-ace cutting in school.

I am kind of fond of learning oxy-ace brazing, but can it be used for non lugged joints? How about straight butt joints? Or is there a lug sleeve out there to make a butt joint stronger?

What about using heatsinks to alleviate problems of heat, for the other types of welding?

Any advice appreciated!


----------



## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

Since I started building frames a number of years ago I have come to the conclusion that most questions regarding framebuilding are just one try away from a nearly complete answer, In your case I would recomend copius amounts of reading, use the searchbar here for any question and read all the threads that come up. try FrameForum.org and poke around , that place is a wealth of info,(while you are there tell them you are starting your first frame and want to build the jig first, the'll help you out) 
If you are more into the practical side, find someone with a mig and/or a stick welder and try welding up some soupcans for practice and then re-ask this question. Its not unheard of to mig heavy utility stuff together but it would be really rare process for a sport/competition bike.
None of this is meant to discourage you at all, look around , enjoy the journey,


----------



## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

TIG is a great process, but I don't know if I would recommend it as #1 for a student.

Just keep in mind that oxy-fuel welding/brazing has been around since the early 1900's and almost all metals can be joined with it. Aluminum, steel, iron, stainless are all readily joined through various techniques with a gas torch and it will best train you for learning other processes in the future.

Yes, lugs work with "brazing" but you can also bronze weld "fillet braze" or even gas weld. These bicycles, if made well will be every bit as strong as the TIG welded variety. Heck, TIG wasn't even a standard in the field process before the mid 70's and we built a lot of cool stuff before then.

I would recommend a community college course to teach you the basic handling, safety and welding procedures of the gas torch. A nice setup can be had for less than 500 dollars and you can do a ton with it. 

Dave Bohm
Bohemian Bicycles


----------



## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

j-ro said:


> try FrameForum.org and poke around , that place is a wealth of info,,


In addition I also recommend the original framelist. [email protected]

it is not visual like frameforum, but there is more than 10 years of posts there to read in the archives and although it is more lug biased than frameforum, there are more pro's there and more generally accurate info.

Dave Bohm
Bohemian Bicycles


----------



## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

i heard that chromoly was originaly made to be oxy-acetylene welded.

Henrob 2000 is an amazing little torch


----------



## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

AlexJK said:


> i heard that chromoly was originaly made to be oxy-acetylene welded.
> 
> Henrob 2000 is an amazing little torch


Yes, absolutely it was as this was the preferred process for 70 years. In fact, the FAA only allows one to either gas weld or TIG weld steel airframes (which are still used in stunt aircraft and such. No carbon there, when you are pulling 11g) Brazing is not allowed.

531 Reynolds was originally made for airframes and does very well with gas welds.

I own a Henrob along with 3-4 other torches. It is a very good torch but I will also say that other good torches can do the same thing. Most of it is skill and setting the torch correctly, not the torch.

I was thinking of gas welding an entire bike frame just to show it could be done and be reliable. Would be awesome for a get around, paint it flat black. Nobody would touch it.

Dave


----------



## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

lol i <3 my henrob 

i think it's really easy to set and the fact that it doesn't blow the puddle like a jet engine makes things real easy


----------



## zipzit (Aug 3, 2005)

I'm just about to push the button and purchase a new oxy/acetylene set up... I'm one of those guys who believes in purchasing and owning tools of high quality. Everything has value.. when you buy good, resale remains good as well. I want to do fillet brazing.

I just found a used Victor set up. A little pricey, but with nice components. Pricing is approx 50% of retail.

The Henrob looks attractive as it works well as a steel cutting tool.. If you could do it again, does that torch make sense for a first timer?

The other thing is dual stage or single stage regulators. I've had zero luck finding dual stage regulators in the used market, and new ones are astronomical in price. How important is this for the framebuilder?

Three questions surrounding an oxygen / acetylene setup: Would you:

1) Buy name brand set up (used) ?? (or say heck with it, purchase Victor "style" or Harbor Freight stuff) I found a Victor industrial late model set with tanks, cart, in $500 range. (Note: my one concern is the spec sheet for this set says 5psi is minimum pressure.. not sure if this is really right? see http://216.203.8.220/browse/product.aspx?Msg=RecID&recIds=180649&WT.svl=180649 )

2) Purchase the Henrob as your only torch and build a setup around that?

3) Take the extra time and $$ to find a set of dual stage regulators ?

thanks, zip


----------



## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

dbohemian said:


> I was thinking of gas welding an entire bike frame just to show it could be done and be reliable. Would be awesome for a get around, paint it flat black. Nobody would touch it.


I have a beater singlespeed cross bike that I gas welded just for shiggles and gits. And I painted it with black woodstove paint. The welds aren't pretty (certainly I am mostly to blame for that), but that bike has had the snot beaten out of it and so far it's held up just fine. I used a Victor J100C and a #00 tip.


----------



## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

dr.welby said:


> I have a beater singlespeed cross bike that I gas welded just for shiggles and gits. And I painted it with black woodstove paint. The welds aren't pretty (certainly I am mostly to blame for that), but that bike has had the snot beaten out of it and so far it's held up just fine. I used a Victor J100C and a #00 tip.


Cool Man! It should hold up just fine. I would say the tens of thousands of airframes that are gas welded attest to it's reliability.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Do not buy low grade Chinese junk , spend your money once .


----------

