# Transition Vanquish XL vs Santa Cruz Highball XXL



## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

Has anyone checked these bikes out?

I'm looking at replacing my Santa Cruz Highball XXL with a Transition Vanquish XL. I snapped my seatpost off just above the seat post clamp about a month ago. 27.2 just isn't very clyde friendly.

The Vanquish is just over 2" longer in the wheelbase. It's slacker at the head tube 67.5 degrees vs. the Highball's 70.5. Also the seat tube is a 31.6 vs the Highball's 27.2.

All things I think would be good and what I would like out of it my Highball. Maybe a little slacker than I'd like, but still good.

Have any of you have experience with Transition Bikes?


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## Slyham (Jun 24, 2015)

I don't know much about the Transition Vanquish, but the Kona Honzo might be another option to look at. It has more reach and stack than the Vanquish and ht angle is 68. It also has a 31.6 seat tube.


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

I’ve seen the Kona, but wasn’t keen on buying a complete bike. I want to swap most of my parts over.


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## Slyham (Jun 24, 2015)

BigART said:


> I've seen the Kona, but wasn't keen on buying a complete bike. I want to swap most of my parts over.


You can buy a Honzo frame. Carbon, aluminum, or steel. You might be able to find a titanium one as well.


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

I didn’t see that as an option on their website. Do you happen to have a link?


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## Slyham (Jun 24, 2015)

It is mentioned on some of the complete bike builds.

http://www.konaworld.com/honzo_cr_trail_dl.cfm


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

Thank you. I didn’t notice that. Looked right at it. 

I don’t know that I need more reach, but stack height sounds good. 

I’m going to see if a local shop has an xl for me to try.


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

Slyham said:


> I don't know much about the Transition Vanquish, but the Kona Honzo might be another option to look at. It has more reach and stack than the Vanquish and ht angle is 68. It also has a 31.6 seat tube.


The stack is going to effectively have my bars up higher right? Just double checking.

Do you know if the crank is boost or not?

I'm going to start calling local Kona dealers to see if they have an XL in stock to test ride.


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## Slyham (Jun 24, 2015)

Yes, stack height refers to the vertical distance from the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube. So higher there handlebars.

It's a boost bike so I would assume the cranks are boost. Are you referring to the rear hub spacing? Yes it is boost.

Hope you find an XL to try.


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

The high tower LT is boost axles, but not crank. 

Just checking. 

The Kona has 5mm more stack and 10mm less reach with some other mm differences. 

Still going to check them out soon I hope. 

The Kona frame looks to be less expensive too.


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

Hey Slyham! I just wanted to say thanks for your help. I made this chart. I have some full suspensions in there. Santa Cruz seems to think I can ride the LT with the shock pumped up to max 350psi. I have my doubts. I have a friend that owns the LT, he's bringing it over and we're going to pump it to 350psi and see if the sag is okay or not. If I'm close I may try harder to get these pounds off, but if not I'm going to get a new HT frame.

Comparing the Kona and Transition bike I do like the longer wheelbase, but the stack height caught my attention too.

Both have shorter chainstays than my Highball.

I'm just going to have to check out both and decide.


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## Slyham (Jun 24, 2015)

BigART said:


> Hey Slyham! I just wanted to say thanks for your help. I made this chart. I have some full suspensions in there. Santa Cruz seems to think I can ride the LT with the shock pumped up to max 350psi. I have my doubts. I have a friend that owns the LT, he's bringing it over and we're going to pump it to 350psi and see if the sag is okay or not. If I'm close I may try harder to get these pounds off, but if not I'm going to get a new HT frame.
> 
> Comparing the Kona and Transition bike I do like the longer wheelbase, but the stack height caught my attention too.
> 
> ...


Happy to help. I don't feel like I did that much though.

I noticed something interesting though. The carbon honzo has a different geo than the aluminum and steel. Reach is 510 and stack is 651. I just ordered a steel one so I noticed the difference.

Let me know which one you decide to go with.


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

Local Kona dealer has a XL in the aluminum they're going to take out of the box and let me try out. The local Transition dealer has no bikes, but are having a Demo Day with Transition on May 4th-6th.

I'm not desperate, but I'm definitely looking to upgrade my frame if I'm still to heavy for full suspension. I will update this thread as I find out more.


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

I bought a Vanquish XL Frame Friday. I'll be putting it together much like the way my Highball is setup.


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## rian4224 (Jul 31, 2017)

BigART said:


> I bought a Vanquish XL Frame Friday. I'll be putting it together much like the way my Highball is setup.


I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the Vanquish XL frame BigART. Is it built up yet? I have a XXL Highball too and have noticed the Vanquish's geo and thought about swapping frames due to the longer reach, slacker HT angle and 31.6 seattube so I can run a longer dropper.

How tall are you if I may ask? I'm 6'6" (bare feet) w/ long arms so the Highball fits ok but I think I would like a bike with a slacker/longer geo so I can run a shorter stem and have more fun going downhill.


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

rian4224 said:


> I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the Vanquish XL frame BigART. Is it built up yet? I have a XXL Highball too and have noticed the Vanquish's geo and thought about swapping frames due to the longer reach, slacker HT angle and 31.6 seattube so I can run a longer dropper.
> 
> How tall are you if I may ask? I'm 6'6" (bare feet) w/ long arms so the Highball fits ok but I think I would like a bike with a slacker/longer geo so I can run a shorter stem and have more fun going downhill.


I'm 6'6" as well, a bit more leggy. My XXL Highball has a 140mm Pike on it which changes the stack height. I used a 140mm Pike on the XL Vanquish. The angle of the seat tube being less slack and more slack on the headtube brought my seat to handlebar closer than I thought. With the same stem, a 100mm 17 degree, on both bikes now it brought me about 1/4" closer with 15mm of spacer underneath. It's what I wanted actually. I was reaching just a bit to far on the Santa Cruz, about 1/4". I originally thought I'd be running a much shorter stem do to more reach on the Vanquish, but that didn't work out at all.

I finished putting it together yesterday and rode last night with a group climbing some hills and descending others I'm quite familiar with. The Vanquish with the bit longer wheelbase and better cockpit climbed better for me. The slacker headtube felt really good and inspired more confidence. I'm also running 29x2.5" DHF Front and Rear on Kitsuma rims with Hope Pro 4 Hubs. I'm using the same drivetrain and brakes. The bike is lighter than my Santa Cruz. The biggest reason for me to go with the Vanquish is the larger seat post diameter. The slightly longer wheelbase and slacker headtube make it all the more enjoyable.

Here's my pre-ride pic. I have lights on it because we started around 7PM.


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## rian4224 (Jul 31, 2017)

Schweeeeeeeeet. Looks great. Good call on the 2.5 tires, I didn’t know you could go that big on the Vanquish...rip it!


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

rian4224 said:


> Schweeeeeeeeet. Looks great. Good call on the 2.5 tires, I didn't know you could go that big on the Vanquish...rip it!


What a difference compared to the 2.25" I was on before. Way more plush!

Transition says 2.4 is the widest, but these 2.5's fit no problem. I called and asked them ahead of time and they said it should be fine. You could go a bit wider still , but you'll run into issues with mud shedding is my thought.


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## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

BigART said:


> I'm 6'6" as well, a bit more leggy. My XXL Highball has a 140mm Pike on it which changes the stack height. I used a 140mm Pike on the XL Vanquish. The angle of the seat tube being less slack and more slack on the headtube brought my seat to handlebar closer than I thought. With the same stem, a 100mm 17 degree, on both bikes now it brought me about 1/4" closer with 15mm of spacer underneath. It's what I wanted actually. I was reaching just a bit to far on the Santa Cruz, about 1/4". I originally thought I'd be running a much shorter stem do to more reach on the Vanquish, but that didn't work out at all.
> 
> I finished putting it together yesterday and rode last night with a group climbing some hills and descending others I'm quite familiar with. The Vanquish with the bit longer wheelbase and better cockpit climbed better for me. The slacker headtube felt really good and inspired more confidence. I'm also running 29x2.5" DHF Front and Rear on Kitsuma rims with Hope Pro 4 Hubs. I'm using the same drivetrain and brakes. The bike is lighter than my Santa Cruz. The biggest reason for me to go with the Vanquish is the larger seat post diameter. The slightly longer wheelbase and slacker headtube make it all the more enjoyable.
> 
> Here's my pre-ride pic. I have lights on it because we started around 7PM.


Any more feedback on the ride?


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

IPA Rider said:


> Any more feedback on the ride?


Ya... I miss my old Pike that is now on my wife's bike and she won't give it back at all. She had a Reba previously.

The new Pike is taking more air to get the same 25% sag vs. the old Pike. 102psi on the old with 1 extra toke vs 130psi on the new Pike with stock 2 tokens. Both Pike's are 140mm travel.

The old pike I added a token because it was diving through the travel to easily. I had 5 clicks of rebound from full slow and it was plush and handled everything with great plushness.

The new Pike at 25% sag made me run out of rebound. I was full slow and it still pinged off of stuff and a harder hit made me bounce off of it and pop the bars and me up. I tried taking just 5psi out and it helped quite a bit, but was still a little pingy off of small stuff with the rebound at full slow still.

At 30% sag I'm at 108psi I had 1 click of rebound from full slow. The small bump felt better, but still not as good as the old Pike. This may be due to me having carbon wheels now. Some of the harder hits I take still felt really good and as good as the old Pike.

The new Pike came with 2 tokens, I took one out and reset sag to 30%, which was only 2 psi difference. I'm hoping to get it to ride a little smoother over the small stuff and get a little more rebound adjustment vs. being at or near full slow.

I'm not liking the Maxxis DHF in the front. It washes out on me transitioning from center to side tread. I've aired down to 15psi in the and it feels pretty good, but still makes me queasy now if it will slip or hold.

I ordered an Assegai to try. I like the tread on it and it's similar to the WTB Vigilante I ran previously.

I'm loving the slacker geometry of the Vanquish and I love the larger seatpost. No more flex in the seat post vs. the 27.2 I dropper I was on. The extra wheel base is real nice to. A few of the downhill sections I frequent seem easier and I have a lot more confidence with the Vanquish.

I wish they made the frame about 40mm - 50mm longer reach for me. To get me fitted right I'm using a 100mm 17 degree stem with 15mm stack under it. I also have 3" Answer Pro Taper bars. Bars being about level with the seat height. Ironically, the same stem and bars I used on my Highball 2XL giving me slightly closer reach by about 1/8".

I'm riding tonight and I'm hoping I can get the fork better dialed in. I'm starting off with 5 clicks of rebound from full slow as a starting point. I tested it off a few curbs around the house and it felt pretty good. The ride tonight will tell me yay or nay.

My buddy just upgraded from the older Pike 160mm to the new Fox 36 Grip 2 160mm and he says it's way way(x2) more plush than his Pike is.


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## Camstyn (May 15, 2018)

I just bought a XL Vanquish built up with 2.6 Rekons, it is tight but they fit with no rub.


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## jbowland (May 7, 2004)

What is your seat height, from top of seat to center line of bottom bracket? I am looking at a vanquish but am worried that the seat tube will be too short for me. I run 86cm from top of seat to center line of bottom bracket. I typically look for bikes in the 520mm range for seat tube length and can still run a 150mm dropper. Thanks!


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## BigART (Aug 30, 2017)

jbowland said:


> What is your seat height, from top of seat to center line of bottom bracket? I am looking at a vanquish but am worried that the seat tube will be too short for me. I run 86cm from top of seat to center line of bottom bracket. I typically look for bikes in the 520mm range for seat tube length and can still run a 150mm dropper. Thanks!


I'm at 88.5cm from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of seat. I'm using a 150mm dropper right now and can easily fit a 180mm dropper if I wanted to. I also am using 180mm XT crank arms. I'm on the leggy side.


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## jbowland (May 7, 2004)

Thanks! From the photos it looks like you are running a lot of post. I had a carbon Specialized Fuse for a season in the XL size and it fit me really well, however the ride quality was terrible. I am hoping to find something that is still send worthy that won't kill me on a longish ride.


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