# Avid XX Brakes



## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

I haven't seen to much feedback from these brakes. Anybody use these and how do you find they compare with the other lightweight alternatives?


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

Mine should arrive tomorrow. I'll throw them on a scale, take some pics, and get a ride in on them this weekend. I won't be able to compare them to anything but Juicy 7's and Elixir CR's, though.


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

I'm interested in them as well. Can't make up my mind on brakes. I'll be waiting to hear whay you think about them and your actual weights.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

I agree. I'm anxious to get something before the start of the race season so I may end up just getting whatever I can get the cheapest. Right now, the XX are the cheapest I can find.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

You can find weights and pictures in this thread. Didn't test them out on the field yet, but rebleeded them lately so shoot if you've got some questions.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i used on my Flash team.

wow ! what a power !!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

eliflap said:


> i used on my Flash team.
> 
> wow ! what a power !!


Sorry Eliflap, i know you also have the Formula "The one" and just looking at the graphs below tells me that it can't be true. The XX is one of the weaker brakes available at the moment. Definitely weaker than the regular Elixir and A LOT less powerful than the Formula.

Explaining the graph below which are the results of a comparison test done by german BIKE magazine (issue 12/09):
The power got measured at 80 Newton handforce. All brakes equally.

To the left you see the Brakepower
Below in Red you see the different rotor sizes with each brake

As you can see the Avid XX with big 185mm rotor has equal power than a Shimano SLX with the 160mm rotor!


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Wish that German magazine would have tested the Formula R1's and Hope Race. Would have been a much better comparison with the XX.

After all, isn't The One brake a DH specific brake??


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

DavidR1 said:


> Wish that German magazine would have tested the Formula R1's and Hope Race. Would have been a much better comparison with the XX.
> 
> After all, isn't The One brake a DH specific brake??


No-the one is a labeled as a All-Mountain Brake but just slightly heavier than the R1!

Eliflap also has it.Pictures below are from his Blog.


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

eliflap said:


> i used on my Flash team.
> 
> wow ! what a power !!


http://content.mtbr.com/cat/brakes/disc-brake-system/avid/xx/PRD_448741_1507crx.aspx

The only two reviews posted here both agree that the brakes are very powerful.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

chuckie33 said:


> http://content.mtbr.com/cat/brakes/disc-brake-system/avid/xx/PRD_448741_1507crx.aspx
> 
> The only two reviews posted here both agree that the brakes are very powerful.


interesting-the guy saying it is powerful obvisouly never used another disc before and the second user isn't really happy with them either.

But reading the verdict of the german test again they say the XX is a great brake for xc riding. The only major complaint they had was the price. This and the fact that the regular Elixirs were performing better made those even more appealing to the testers. But then it seems they don't care for the

The Formula "The one" was weighed 24g heavier than the XX but got is still the ultimate brake regarding power and durability. If i would have been able to get one over here ins Switzerland i would have taken that one over the R1 and XX any time.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm sorry Nino, but you're mistaken:

The One - 195 + 214 = 409g
R1 - 167 +182 = 349g
XX - 158 +183 = 343g

So R1 weights 60g less and XX 66g less than The One.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Cezex said:


> I'm sorry Nino, but you're mistaken:
> 
> The One - 195 + 214 = 409g
> R1 - 167 +182 = 349g
> ...


Well - the weights in BIKE-magazine were given for all brakes with the same lenght hose and the same parts included."The one" was just 24g heavier than the XX (front brake only).But by reading closer i see they also included the rotors and bolts so the Formula has an advantage with the lighter rotors here...
Formula "The One" complete front setup with 160mm rotor: 315g
XX front setup: 291g

Below Eliflap pictures of uncut R1 with carbon levers (5g per side lighter than the alloy levers):
158+174= 340g

More Eliflap pictures from an uncut XX:
174g+190g = 364g
(The 2 PM bolts with washers weigh 16g)

Do we know if all those hoses are the same lenght??? I don't think so.That's why i gave the weights of the german magazine which had them all set up the same.
If i'm not completely mistaken the 160mm XX rotors weigh 97g while the R1/The one rotors are 88g....x2= another 18g advantage for the Formulas.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

*New XX brakes just arrived*

Here are the weights (in grams):

Lever, caliper, hose (160mm front)- 163.7
Lever, caliper, hose (160mm rear)- 174.8
Clamp F- 10.4
Clamp R- 10.2
Rotor F- 96.1
Rotor R- 102.6 (Overweight!- it also measures 1.97mm thick, compared to 1.84mm for the front. I don't think it was surface finished adequately.)
Rotor bolts (6)- 7.2
Rotor bolts (6)- 7.1

Complete Front- 293.0
Compete Rear- 324.0 (Including IS adapter and mounting bolts. Would be 317.5 if the rotor was the proper weight.)

Luckily I am running a 140mm rear rotor, so I don't care that much about the overweight XX rotor. All in all I saved 178 grams over the Elixir CR's that had been tuned with Ti rotor bolts, caliper mounting bolts, and Al lever mount bolts- only swapping the front rotor.

I just took the bike out to the parking lot to bed in the rotors a bit. Even though they're not fully bedded, I can tell they have less power than the Elixir CR's they replaced. I believe this is fully due to the organic pads that come stock on the XX brakes. I'll give them a few rides before deciding if I need to replace them with sintered pads.

_Edit- I think when I was installing/adjusting the front caliper I may have contaminated the front rotor with a small amount of copper anti-seize. I've wiped it and the pads down with soapy water, rinsed, and bedded again. They seem to be doing much better. I can lock up the rear on asphalt no problem- can't tell a difference between them and the Elixir CR's they replaced. The front is doing better- I can do a front wheelie, but it takes two fingers. Hopefully it will get a bit better._


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

bholwell: Rebleed them before riding. Mine rear one had a lot of strange stuff floating in oil. After rebleeding they work a whole lot better!

nino: Ok, I see your point. Still I prefer XX over R1/One even if the weight is almoust the same.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

Cezex said:


> bholwell: Rebleed them before riding. Mine rear one had a lot of strange stuff floating in oil.


That doesn't sound good! I'm riding this weekend so I don't think I'll get to it before then. The levers feel good and firm, though.

Did you replace the fluid in both brakes? Did both have the "stange stuff" in the fluid?


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

bholwell said:


> The levers feel good and firm, though.


Mine wasn't so maybe it was a problem in one item only.



bholwell said:


> Did you replace the fluid in both brakes? Did both have the "stange stuff" in the fluid?


Yes, rebleeded both of them. Font was ok, rear sucked, I could touch the handlebar with the lever. The "strange stuff" looked like pieces of inner hose (don't know how it's called in english so it's hard to explain). Now they feel much more firmer just as I like.


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## Boralb (Jan 8, 2010)

This is the earlier test results of bike mag.










I use elixir cr's for now and planning to get my xx brakes soon.. I was thinking of R1's before, but after seeing some oil leakage problems and rotor rubbing issues i forgot them..

Weight diff between r1 and xx seems less than 10g with uncut housings..(add 20g for the clamps to xx side)


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## bermudarocks (Mar 9, 2007)

I have been riding my XX brakes for around 30 miles & cant seem to wear my brakes in as i keep getting this major grinding / vibrating when i brake.
So do all XX brakes that are sold on bike sets have organic pads as opposed to other typos?
So how can i tell what type of pad i have installed on my XX is there any indication or color on the backing of disc pad that can verify this?
I would love to go for another pad to eliminate the noise i am experiencing @ this moment but confused as to what will be the quietest?
I read in MTB action that only 2 types of pads can be used on the XX organic & semi metallic this is to minimize heat build up, as magnesium is not as good as dissipating heat as aluminum is. And told sintered is not a good fit for these typo brakes?

thanks for your replies.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

What are the differences between the Elixir CR and XX?


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

Boralb said:


> Weight diff between r1 and xx seems less than 10g with uncut housings..(add 20g for the clamps to xx side)


That's exactly what my XX brakes weighed (rounded). How is the adjustment on the R1's? I think the adjustment on the XX's are an improvement over the Elixir CR's. With both brakes you get pad contact and lever reach adjustments, but on the Elixir CR's I had to lever reach adjustment to the max to avoid the lever from getting too close to or from touching the handlebar. With the XX brakes after I adjusted the lever position to where I like it, it was about in the middle, meaning I can fine-tune it in either direction.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

bermudarocks said:


> I have been riding my XX brakes for around 30 miles & cant seem to wear my brakes in as i keep getting this major grinding / vibrating when i brake.
> So do all XX brakes that are sold on bike sets have organic pads as opposed to other typos?
> So how can i tell what type of pad i have installed on my XX is there any indication or color on the backing of disc pad that can verify this?
> I would love to go for another pad to eliminate the noise i am experiencing @ this moment but confused as to what will be the quietest?
> ...


Check to make sure your pads are contacting the center of the correct part of the rotor. It sounds like your caliper may be positioned either too high or too low.

I am not sure if sintered pads are not recommended for the XX brakes. I'll look into it. It sounds strange, though, b/c I think I remember reading the XX brake pads are aluminum backed, as opposed to copper? which is normally used. If heat dissipation was an issue, why would they use Al alloy backed pads?


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

Lelandjt said:


> What are the differences between the Elixir CR and XX?


I'll try to summarize:

-------------------------*Elixir CR*---------*XX*
Rotors---------------All steel G3-----steel/Al 
Hardware-----------all steel-----------all Titanium
Levers---------------Carbon fiber-----lighter carbon fiber
Caliper Body------Aluminum-------Magnesium
Lever Body--------Aluminum--------Magnesium
Pads----------------Sintered-----------Al backed Organic

Also, the lever adjustment knob is eliminated on the XX, which relies solely on a small allen screw under the lever for adjustment. The colors are different, and the XX brakes are compatible with the XX matchmaker clamps (which is only useful if you're running XX shifters).

http://www.sram.com/en/XX/products/brakes.php


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2010)

I find the test result for the Formula The One brake at 203mm suspicious. If it were around 600N instead of 700N it would make more sense. Otherwise there needs to be some splainin.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

craigsj said:


> I find the test result for the Formula The One brake at 203mm suspicious. If it were around 600N instead of 700N it would make more sense. Otherwise there needs to be some splainin.


You're totally right. And not only that, but the relative ranking should remain the same going from 160 to 180 to 203mm. I don't put much stock in "magazine testing".


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## bermudarocks (Mar 9, 2007)

Thanks for your reply.....

The brakes came stock with a 2010 cannondale scalpel & everything centered & positioned perfectly when i claimed it from my lbs. I have no rotor / pad rub so im baffled as to what this issue could be?
Only solution @ this stage is to go ahead & change for new pads?


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

bermudarocks said:


> Thanks for your reply.....
> 
> The brakes came stock with a 2010 cannondale scalpel & everything centered & positioned perfectly when i claimed it from my lbs. I have no rotor / pad rub so im baffled as to what this issue could be?
> Only solution @ this stage is to go ahead & change for new pads?


I don't know. I find it odd that the pad material would cause this type of problem. I hope you're not trusting that your lbs mechanic set your brakes up correctly.


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## bermudarocks (Mar 9, 2007)

I hear you!!

I am on my way to another bike shop let them sort out this issue for me i will keep you posted with the outcome ...
cheers !!


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## stefano_cercone (Sep 30, 2009)

nino said:


> Well - the weights in BIKE-magazine were given for all brakes with the same lenght hose and the same parts included."The one" was just 24g heavier than the XX (front brake only).But by reading closer i see they also included the rotors and bolts so the Formula has an advantage with the lighter rotors here...
> Formula "The One" complete front setup with 160mm rotor: 315g
> XX front setup: 291g
> 
> ...


Nino did you get weights off Formula RX`s????? Really Thankful if you could take the info form BIKE-mag


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

stefano_cercone said:


> Nino did you get weights off Formula RX`s????? Really Thankful if you could take the info form BIKE-mag


359g for the same front setup.

On the trail with 160 rotor testers complained the rather high handforce to achieve the needed power.They suggest the 180 rotor for the RX.The weight is super-low for a brake of this price-class.


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## stefano_cercone (Sep 30, 2009)

nino said:


> 359g for the same front setup.
> 
> On the trail with 160 rotor testers complained the rather high handforce to achieve the needed power.They suggest the 180 rotor for the RX.The weight is super-low for a brake of this price-class.


Would you think is easy to lower weight a bit more? I don´t mind having the 160mm rotor(obviosly lighter) or 180mm.??

Greetings from Costa Rica


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

bermudarocks look at the sram webpage - "PAD MATERIALS: Organic, alloy backed"


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

stefano_cercone said:


> Would you think is easy to lower weight a bit more? I don´t mind having the 160mm rotor(obviosly lighter) or 180mm.??
> 
> Greetings from Costa Rica


Bolt-tuning only.Nothing what you can't do to others as well. Some titanium or aluminium bolts might save about 50g Total.( 12 Ti rotor bolts , 4 main PM bolts that attach the brakes to the fork+frame can be aluminium, IS adapter bolts titanium)

On high-priced brakes like the XX bolts usually are already titanium.I would NOT suggest to go for lighter 160 rotors since there aren't any lighter steel rotors! Aluminium or titanium simply offer weaker power which is not what you want. Formula rotors are the lightest steel rotors already (160mm = 88g / 180mm=109g).


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Here are some test results from an other German mag.
Maybe useful, maybe not.....

Sorry for the bad quality, but my scanner isn't working.










*Standfestigkeit :*

For reliability on long descents, with a minimum off hand power.

*Bremsleistung*

Reduces fatigue in the fingers, and reduces braking distance.

*Dosierbarkeit*

The braking power increases continuous and is good to modulate.
Important for beginners.

*Preis-leistungs-Verhaltnis*

Good brake properties doesn't have to be expensive.
Here is where you get most for your money.



















German isn't my native tong, so corrected me if I am wrong :thumbsup:


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

They're comparing Hayes, Marta and Formula with 203mm rotors with Avid XX with 185mm rotor. Well done!

What does "Dosierbarkeit" mean ?


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

It means modulation


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Cezex said:


> They're comparing Hayes, Marta and Formula with 203mm rotors with Avid XX with 185mm rotor. Well done!
> 
> What does "Dosierbarkeit" mean ?


wrong

They tested ALL brakes with different rotor sizes.Just look at the brakepower-chart i posted yesterday. There you can see al the different brakes with all the different rotor sizes.

What you see in DEY11s scans is the top 3 of each category:

Standfestigkeit = Durability (no fading,low handforce and security on long descents)
Bremsleistung= Brakepower
Dosierbarkeit = Modulation
Preis-Leisungs-Verhältnis = price vs. performance ( best bang for the buck)


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

What I meant was that they're not showing comparison between the most popular size which is 180-185mm but 203mm instead. And we all know that XX do not have 203mm version so it will not compete in other categories such as break power for example.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Cezex said:


> What I meant was that they're not showing comparison between the most popular size which is 180-185mm but 203mm instead. And we all know that XX do not have 203mm version so it will not compete in other categories such as break power for example.


ahem-but you have seen the graph i posted before, didn't you? That's the graphs that belong to the test also scanned above...There you can see ALL the tested brakes with ALL possible rotor sizes. Again - the XX is one of the weaker brakes tested regardless of the rotor size.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

Oh well, you can't have everything. At least it's the lightest from all tested. I'm sure it will suffice for XC riding. It's a pitty that they didn't tested the R1 as they are quite popular.

I'm looking at graphs from this picture and see that XX looks quite good from among the others. It is the same article that you have Nino ?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Cezex said:


> It is the same article that you have Nino ?
> 
> ]


That's what i tried to tell all the time - my graphs are from the same test!


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

For pics of my XX brakes mounted on the bike, visit:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=6577407#post6577407


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Nino, are you sure it is the same test ?
Mine are from Mountain Bike 2/2010 (mountainbike-magazin.de)
I don't see the graphs you posted anywhere...


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Dex11 said:


> Nino, are you sure it is the same test ?
> Mine are from Mountain Bike 2/2010 (mountainbike-magazin.de)
> I don't see the graphs you posted anywhere...


ups-you are right-mines are from BIKE magazine but look almost the same.I have both mags so i may be excused


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

I have them both too....the look almost the same indeed, I was thinking I missed some
pages....:thumbsup: 

If we would combine both tests, how would the verdict look ?

If you would look for best bang for the buck the Formula RX is the clear winner.

Anybody out there who has both the Formula R1 and the Formula The One ? , I would like to know what the verdict will be....


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

By those scanned pages it seems that the CR Mag is a better choice than the XX


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Batas said:


> By those scanned pages it seems that the CR Mag is a better choice than the XX


Performance-wise for sure.

XX are just lighter and cost much more.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

In fact they cost the same, you have to know how to search for it


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## raceer2 (Jul 21, 2007)

tell us more :-(


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

Search google products, amazon, qbike and other sites for best deals. Then search for discount coupons. Try different names, I've found mine while searching for "sram xx" not "avid xx" and got it for 200$ less. It's a matter of patience, lot of time and a little bit of luck


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## Onetrack (Oct 5, 2004)

Are most of you XX brake users happy with them. I still on the fence about using the XX on my new build... compared to R1's
Thanks


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## diver160651 (Jun 18, 2007)

Onetrack said:


> Are most of you XX brake users happy with them. I still on the fence about using the XX on my new build... compared to R1's
> Thanks


R1s = LOVE the way the feel, modulate and the power HATE HATE HATE the fact that the pistons in the calipers are so finicky and more often then not, DRAG.. I might switch them out if I can find another break that feels as good, in the same weight class and doesn't drag (maybe the new hopes race?). I have some sets of brakes that always fully retract and don't rub; but then they are boat anchors. If Formula can get the R1s to retract with greater reliability I'd buy them again..


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## meph (Sep 18, 2003)

I looked at the R1s too. No bite adjustment was the dealbreaker for me (that and the astronomical price, even compared to XX).

My XX brakes (with 185mm rotors) are easily powerful enough for my trailbike. They survived Bootleg Canyon a couple of weeks ago without a problem.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

nino said:


> Explaining the graph below which are the results of a comparison test done by german BIKE magazine (issue 12/09):
> The power got measured at 80 Newton handforce. All brakes equally.


While that is interesting, that is some of more useless then usual set of numbers. Most disk brakes will lock up your wheel if you squeeze it. The only important thing is how easy it is to control it and how easy it is to setup and maintain. 
Could be important to limpy wristed individuals I guess.

Performance wise I will take Shimano XT over Formula and Avid any time of the day. Just an individual preference of brake feel - and ease of adjustment; they are all strong enough. Unfortunately, they are on the heavy side. Ergonomically, the last generation of dual control is the best shifting/braking interface I have tried so far.


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## d.janci (Feb 11, 2010)

According to Mountain Bike mag test RX are slightly better then Hope Race X2 and a lot cheaper.  Could that be true?


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## SmilMick (Apr 9, 2006)

Only REAL riders like Nino compare charts and graphs lol

What a tool!


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## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

All the current Formulas seem to have good power. The Hope's are more of a 'feel' brake than great power....and this extends all the way through the range. To get a solid XC race brake you have to buy a Hope designed for trail riding etc.

An aside - how many of you with more recent R1's have issues with dragging pads....I'm in the same issue with regards to choice of R1 vs XX.......I'll run the Hope 2 piece rotors with whatever brake I buy.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

bholwell said:


> Complete Front- 293.0
> Compete Rear- 324.0 (Including IS adapter and mounting bolts. Would be 317.5 if the rotor was the proper weight.)


I liked the XX brakes so much, I got another set for my FS. So here's another data point:

Front+clamp+mounting hardware = 187.5g
rotor = 97.5g
rotor bolts = 7.5g

Rear+160mm bracket+mounting hardware = 223.5g
rotor = 97.7g
rotor bolts = 7.5g

Complete Front = 292.5 grams
Complete Rear = 328.7 grams


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## Rasterman (Jan 23, 2008)

Curmy said:


> While that is interesting, that is some of more useless then usual set of numbers. Most disk brakes will lock up your wheel if you squeeze it. The only important thing is how easy it is to control it and how easy it is to setup and maintain.
> Could be important to limpy wristed individuals I guess.


For anything but downhill I think you are right, but with so much breaking in downhill the force required to brake is a huge factor.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

*Jagwire RX Lite Pads*

I'd just like to share some info: For anyone looking for a little more power out of their XX brakes, replace the stock pads with the Jagwire RZ Lite pads. Once they were bedded in, it was moderately easier to do a nose wheelie. Hopefully wet weather performance is better, also.


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## AZ-X (Feb 16, 2004)

bholwell said:


> I'd just like to share some info: For anyone looking for a little more power out of their XX brakes, replace the stock pads with the Jagwire RZ Lite pads. Once they were bedded in, it was moderately easier to do a nose wheelie. Hopefully wet weather performance is better, also.


Bholwell, I performed the same surgery when I got my Formula RX brakes just over a month ago. I got the Jagwire RedZone aluminum backed pads for the R1/RX/The One and they have SICK amounts of power in the standard 160mm size. These are easily the most powerful brakes I have used so far and I have used the XX, CRs, Magura Martas, Elixer Rs, BB7s, XT, XTR, SLX, etc in various rotor sizes. As you can see, I heavily modified my RX brakes with a 100% titanium fastener bolt upgrade, the aluminum backed pads and some red vinyl dye for the cable hoods...:thumbsup:

Those Jagwire pads make a very noticeable difference from stock and they are not expensive at all if you look around for them. I got mine from EBikestop.com. The Jagwire hose fitting kits also worked perfectly with my Formula brakes when I trimmed the hoses. The same hose kit works for R1/RX/The One too.

Sorry to stray off topic, but I was pretty excited about these brakes and the Jagwire aluminum backed pads. I'll make a separate thread about the pads with some weights as well later.


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## alivio (May 31, 2010)

Just a question, does these brakes suck balls like the rest of the XX line and all Avid products in general?


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## Zakarina (May 1, 2008)

alivio said:


> Just a question, does these brakes suck balls like the rest of the XX line and all Avid products in general?


You seem pretty close minded, do you aproach everything with such a negative perception.

What kind of drivetrain do you run on your bike that justify bashing the entire XX line that you probably have never even tried for more than 10 minutes?


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

alivio said:


> Just a question, does these brakes suck balls like the rest of the XX line and all Avid products in general?


I agree, completely unwarranted statement. If you like fast shifting, you can't beat XX.


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## 743power (Sep 25, 2007)

bholwell said:


> I'd just like to share some info: For anyone looking for a little more power out of their XX brakes, replace the stock pads with the Jagwire RZ Lite pads. Once they were bedded in, it was moderately easier to do a nose wheelie. Hopefully wet weather performance is better, also.


I have been running these for a month or so now. I was having some issues with the brakes and I narrowed it down to the avid pads. These pads fixed it and they stop better as a bonus. The only problem is they are "semi-metallic" and avid requires you use organic only. I don't see any problems with using them unless you are like 300lb and doing lift access riding.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

amillmtb said:


> I agree, completely unwarranted statement. If you like fast shifting, you can't beat XX.


Do XX shifters get multi-release, like XTR? Recent X9 and X0 triggers I have tried did not impress me from ergonomic standpoint.


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## alivio (May 31, 2010)

Zakarina said:


> You seem pretty close minded, do you aproach everything with such a negative perception.
> 
> What kind of drivetrain do you run on your bike that justify bashing the entire XX line that you probably have never even tried for more than 10 minutes?


It depends, usually its the superior Altus, Acera X or Alivio line, sometimes its str8 xtr, sometimes its crap sram ****, too bad I had to pay for it.

The xx line is my first nominee to the "idiot invention of the decade" award, its right up there with 12k carbon frames, hollow pin chains, all carbon 37 gram saddles, 16 spoke wheels, aluminum rotors, hybrid caramic bearings, external BB bearings (this one takes the cake) and so on.

Sram should have continued making their grips shifts, and only concentrated on that since thats the only thing that they make thats good. And possibly the BB7 brake caliper, I´m getting it so I hope this an excepction.

Regarding all Avid hydro brakes, these have to be worst **** you can possibly buy today judging from reading the forums, with all their problems, wheter it is manufacturing or design or both, its pure ****, best avoided at all costs. Avid sucked 10 years ago and it still does, now harder then ever.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

alivio said:


> Regarding all Avid hydro brakes, these have to be worst **** you can possibly buy today judging from reading the forums, with all their problems, wheter it is manufacturing or design or both, its pure ****, best avoided at all costs. Avid sucked 10 years ago and it still does, now harder then ever.


Total bullsh1t! Don't bother even to read it. I'm using Avid XX brakes for several months now and all I can say about them is that they are great! Great weight, great modulation, easy to service, no complaint whatsoever.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

alivio said:


> It depends, usually its the superior Altus, Acera X or Alivio line, sometimes its str8 xtr, sometimes its crap sram ****, too bad I had to pay for it.
> 
> The xx line is my first nominee to the "idiot invention of the decade" award, its right up there with 12k carbon frames, hollow pin chains, all carbon 37 gram saddles, 16 spoke wheels, aluminum rotors, hybrid caramic bearings, external BB bearings (this one takes the cake) and so on.


Exactly. The pinnacle of component group design had been achieved in 1996, with 950 XTR group. It has been all downhill from there.


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## alivio (May 31, 2010)

Cezex said:


> Total bullsh1t! Don't bother even to read it. I'm using Avid XX brakes for several months now and all I can say about them is that they are great! Great weight, great modulation, easy to service, no complaint whatsoever.


Dude If you didn´t want anyone to read it whu the fvck did you quote it, it just makes it 1000% worse don´t you get it?

What you are decribing seems to be a fluke in the neverending sucktastic Avid world, congrats!!! Keep em. Get some lottery tickets too.


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## alivio (May 31, 2010)

Curmy said:


> Exactly. The pinnacle of component group design had been achieved in 1996, with 950 XTR group. It has been all downhill from there.


HAHA I had probably 1/3 of the components in that picture, and they were ass kicking at the time.

Those V´s were the shizzle and so were the levers. The RD were like 3951³ better then any sram **** has ever been.


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

alivio said:


> HAHA I had probably 1/3 of the components in that picture, and they were ass kicking at the time.
> 
> Those V´s were the shizzle and so were the levers. The RD were like 3951³ better then any sram **** has ever been.


I had that XTR seatpost once, but the Easton Tubing was so thin it scared me. I had to return it and get a Thompson instead and I think I saved money with the swap.

The XTR V-Brakes are still awesome, not particularly light though.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Curmy said:


> Exactly. The pinnacle of component group design had been achieved in 1996, with 950 XTR group. It has been all downhill from there.


Three of my bikes are equipped with full XTR M-950 stuff...The best bang-for-the-buck (used) out there, in my opinion.


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## fueledbymetal (Jul 20, 2007)

bholwell said:


> I'd just like to share some info: For anyone looking for a little more power out of their XX brakes, replace the stock pads with the Jagwire RZ Lite pads. Once they were bedded in, it was moderately easier to do a nose wheelie. Hopefully wet weather performance is better, also.


How have these pads been working out? I picked up a set of XX brakes's and am disappointed with their performance relative to my Elixer R's, so I'd like to try these pads if they helped and have proven to be durable.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

fueledbymetal said:


> How have these pads been working out? I picked up a set of XX brakes's and am disappointed with their performance relative to my Elixer R's, so I'd like to try these pads if they helped and have proven to be durable.


Very nice. I recently built up a new 29er with new XX brakes, and before I even assembled the brakes onto the bike I swapped out the pads to the alloy-backed Jagwire RZ's.

If you get the new pads, clean your rotors also when you swap them out. It'll make the bed-in process faster/better.


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## 743power (Sep 25, 2007)

Ditto. Mine have been flawless. I also am putting together a 29er with xx brakes and I have the jagwires ready to drop in.


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## marcodeluca (Jan 1, 2011)

*xx vs r1*



Boralb said:


> This is the earlier test results of bike mag.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's no clamps on the xx's levers-- be consistent!


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

marcodeluca said:


> There's no clamps on the xx's levers-- be consistent!


He wrote that at the end of the original post


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## marcodeluca (Jan 1, 2011)

sorry


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## OuterNational (Apr 7, 2007)

bholwell said:


> I'll try to summarize:
> 
> -------------------------*Elixir CR*---------*XX*
> Rotors---------------All steel G3-----steel/Al
> ...


Where does the CR Mag, XO, and Elixir 9 fit into this, is the CR now the elixir 9?

Too confusing, especially because almost all of these can be bought used for around $200 a set (XX's a little more).

Weight aside, is there that much of a performance difference between these?


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## fredfredburger (Oct 12, 2011)

Nice job reviving a long dead thread with one of the posters having been banned since. Sorry cant answer any of your questions


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## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

Nice thread and timing. In the market for new brakes as my xtr's suck. Couldn't agree more with the m950 groupo. Sick and tired of the new stuff and all the prices are out of control. You can't buy like one single bike part or accessory for under $30.


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## bikerboyj17 (Dec 18, 2007)

What problems have you had with the XTR's? Mine have been flawless


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## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

bikerboyj17 said:


> What problems have you had with the XTR's? Mine have been flawless


mine are about five yrs old. but plagued w/sticky pistons more than anything. but also bad braking power even after putting up new pads and rotors. tried re-bleeding couple of times to no avail.


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