# Compromise flat pedals - ok grip without scary pins



## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

My wife has started mountain biking recently. Her bike currently has plastic pedals like the kind that tend to come on new bikes. I know how much a decent pedal can help in rough sections, so I'd like to get her an upgrade.

But here's the rub: sharp pins kind of scare her. She's seen my shins after a few encounters. She's one of those 99% mental mountain bikers, so I don't want to put on anything that robs her of confidence. 

Now one option is pins and shin guards, but when I was starting not that long ago, I cut myself more on the back of my leg (achilles and calf) than I ever did on my shins. Mostly when I was off the bike pushing or straddle-walking it. I'm not sure she would tolerate as many cuts as I did before getting the hang of things, and I don't think shin guards would cover the area.

So does anyone know anything that has more grip than a basic plastic pedal but less fear/pain potential than a full platform with pins?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Buy good platforms and remove the pins. they're typically just screws that stick through the pedal body.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2014)

You could always shorten the pins and add them back later if you need more traction. Most bike shops have a older "beartrap" style pedal like these. VP Components Beartrap Bear Trap BMX Caged Pedals - Americancycle.com USA Again, you could always grind some of the teeth down and make them less aggressive.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Well, she'll get zero traction off of "beartraps". Zero traction, when your feet keep flying off the pedals, is not very confidence building.
My suggestion is to get a good set of shin guards, like these from POC
Joint VPD 2.0 Shins - POC

Also, make sure she has the correct foot wear ( a sticky flat soled shoe) and understands how to pressure her feet to increase contact with the pedal. Correct shoe/pedal set up with pressure should be a great confidence restorer, and pull on shin guard if shes' worried about her whole leg. Knee socks work well too to protect against the minor stuff.

When I switched to flat pedals, I rode with shin guard for two seasons until I was confident my feet weren't going to go flying.

The bites you get from hike a bike... Don't do hike a bike sections until she is beyond caring?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Wellgo B143 pedals are an example of stubby pin pedals that work with trailrunners or other shoes with some lug sole profile. You can find others on ebay. Low heels and you stick like glue.
Wellgo CNC Platform B143 Flat Pedals | Chain Reaction Cycles

















The stubby pins won't cut her shins.


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## RWhiz (Jun 10, 2013)

Are shin guards an option?


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## mtb_brew (Oct 7, 2014)

Have you considered toe clips?


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

I would suggest clipping in rather than toe clips, but that doesn't sound like an option. My question here is about your wife. Does she want the new pedals, or do you want them for her? Is she OK with the ones that are on there?


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## kevin267 (Mar 9, 2011)

The kona wah wah pedale have pretty mellow pins and good grip


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I had a pair of Redline Alloy pedals for a while. They come in a few models. Mine just had little nubs. I still used shin guards, though. Having a pedal whip around and catch me in the shin hurts, even without pins. I mention those pedals though because one of the things I liked about them was that they have concave faces. I felt like that helped me keep my feet placed.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

She'll slip off the plastic pedals, or the better quality flats with the pins removed! If you slip off the pedals at any speed it's probably going to hurt a lot more than a bit of pin-rash on your leg.

I wouldn't encourage anyone to ride off road with slippery flat pedals, you're just asking for it. Either use pinned flats or some kind of clip/strap system. I like these:









No fancy shoes needed, easier and more secure than toe-traps. You even get them in a nice shade of tan with a pretty pattern on ;0)


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the suggestion! To answer a few questions the people have asked:

As to who wants the pedals: She hasn't asked for new pedals, but she has noted a number of times that she thought she was going to make it through a slightly rough section then had her foot slip off the pedal. She has been working on foot position, so hopefully things will improve from that angle too. She seems to have more trouble with the pedals when pedaling through something rough than when descending through it (where low heels would help). Mainly because she doesn't descend through stuff that is rough yet.

Her shoes are fairly flat, fairly sticky trail runners. Not 5.10s, but not terrible (at least I wouldn't imagine them to be).

Shin guards are definitely an option. I asked this question because she'd had requested knee pads, and I figured if I was going to buy some pedals soon, I might as well combine shipping. A few of the pads I was looking at had lighter combined shin guards. Right now the guards (and the friendlier pedals) are more about keeping her nerves down. She's generally great until she stops to think for a second, then can get nervous.

I don't think we'll be able to avoid hike-a-bike completely (or would really want to). We're not usually hiking through really techy stuff. It's usually either 1. a climb she stalls out on and can't get started until the top 2. a bridge over a stream across otherwise manageable singletrack 3. An area of a trail we're riding that she decides is just a bit too much for her now. These last ones can be a bit hard to predict. Also it's sometimes my fault for not exactly remembering what the trail looks like.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. It seems like a few more times out on the current pedals then switching to really short pins with guards might be the best way to go. 

I also just want to say that it's been great having my wife start riding and getting to go out with her. She's never likely to be bombing downhills based on general preference, but she's riding easier singletrack after only a few times out, which is awesome. It's really cool to have your favorite person as a riding buddy.


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## BlokHed (Aug 3, 2014)

I felt the same way as she does when I started. My buds convinced me to go clipless and I won't go back to flats. Feet stay clipped in and no bouncing off the pedals. That was my main problem, just like her having to stop and finish the section on foot. The clipless takes some practice to get in and out of, but won't take that long. I tried those power grips and found clipless pedals easier to get in and out of. Some have learned by riding small circles in tall grass practicing in/out. If you fall its on tall grass and much less painful. Unfortunatly I learned on the trail and have the cuts and bruises to prove it.  Hope this helps!


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

> As to who wants the pedals: She hasn't asked for new pedals, but she has noted a number of times that she thought she was going to make it through a slightly rough section then had her foot slip off the pedal. She has been working on foot position, so hopefully things will improve from that angle too. She seems to have more trouble with the pedals when pedaling through something rough than when descending through it (where low heels would help). Mainly because she doesn't descend through stuff that is rough yet.
> 
> Her shoes are fairly flat, fairly sticky trail runners. Not 5.10s, but not terrible (at least I wouldn't imagine them to be).


Sticky shoes/pressure will really help here.
Caveat - I coach beginners and women. The #1 thing I see that helps with confidence and performance is a correct flat pedal/shoe set up and skills practice to ride pressured and with correct foot position. If she is bouncing when pedaling over rough stuff, she is not putting enough weight on her feet (incorrectly balanced), they aren't positioned properly, or both. Pedals without pins are not helping here. Clips are always an option once someone has a good skill set, but I wouldn't recommend them for beginners.


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## BlokHed (Aug 3, 2014)

Take formicas advice on this. Makes a whole lot more sense than what I said, lol.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Aww, thanks. That is really sweet. I'm just trying to offer suggestions based on the clues in OP's comments, not turn this into a you-know-what vs you-know-what discussion.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks, formica! I appreciate the advice a lot.


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## BlokHed (Aug 3, 2014)

Your welcome! You have good advice. My problem was I was bouncing off the pedals. I know my form is incorrect, I can see that from watching my buds. Also I had too much air in my tires when tubbed, much better now that Im tubeless.


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## MarcusSommers (Sep 11, 2008)

Best advice is to make sure she has correct shoes. A pair of 5.10's will stick to anything better than a hiking or running shoe. They are fine on nearly any pedal. 

You can also remove the pins or reverse them, so instead of a sharp pin you have a small hex head bolt. 

It's not the pedal though. Riding flats requires knowing how to ride flats, and its much more difficult to learn than clipping in. But it makes a much better rider. Emphasize "light hands and heavy feet."


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## Montanadan (Sep 19, 2014)

I'd put a dab of clear silicone RTV over each pin.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

My wife is currently using stubby pins with a hiking shoe. No mishaps, and no shredded shins.

She also attended a women's mtb clinic this year and learned quite a bit.

She's wanting to get some 5.10's this spring and we might want to get longer pins for her pedals at that point to take advantage of the grippier shoes.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

FWIW 5-10 is coming out with a new women's Freerider this spring. There is a huge thread in the Women's Lounge about footwear.
http://forums.mtbr.com/womens-lounge/shoe-reviews-flat-pedals-790984.html


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

formica said:


> FWIW 5-10 is coming out with a new women's Freerider this spring. There is a huge thread in the Women's Lounge about footwear.
> http://forums.mtbr.com/womens-lounge/shoe-reviews-flat-pedals-790984.html


My wife has been reading about those upcoming women's Freeriders for months now, and that's what she's waiting for.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

I was fortunate to be a tester for them!!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Plastic BMX pedals would be your best and cheapest solution.

https://www.danscomp.com/products-PARTS/465155/Eclat_Slash_PC_Pedals.html


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Montanadan said:


> I'd put a dab of clear silicone RTV over each pin.


That's a pretty brilliant idea, actually. 
Shoe goo might hold on better.


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## GoingNowhere (Oct 15, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> Plastic BMX pedals would be your best and cheapest solution.
> 
> https://www.danscomp.com/products-PARTS/465155/Eclat_Slash_PC_Pedals.html


This is what I did on my girl's bike. Got some from Dan's and there's been no complaints. She wears flat skate schools and she never slips off the pedal.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

These Deity pedals have great grip, are plastic and might not hurt as much if you get whip around or slip the grip, they come in attractive colora, and they are under $50. Oh, and they don't have a lot of pins, so less potential pain.

I have been riding a pair for 6 weeks now and have not had a slip of my geip, no roll overs, and no shin smacks. Can't say enough good things about them and tey are affordable. Oh, and you can remove the pins if you like, but they work better with pins in.

deity Compound Pedals


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Do not use plastic pedals they will need to be replaced sooner than later. Here is what you do. Get a high quality flat that she will use with pins once she gets her 5.10's and confidence. Remove the pins and put on "grip tape" used by skateboarders on both sides of the pedal. Once she learns her way remove the tape, insert the pins and use the 5.10's....


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Phinias said:


> Do not use plastic pedals they will need to be replaced sooner than later. Here is what you do. Get a high quality flat that she will use with pins once she gets her 5.10's and confidence. Remove the pins and put on "grip tape" used by skateboarders on both sides of the pedal. Once she learns her way remove the tape, insert the pins and use the 5.10's....


Just curious - which of the plastic BMX pedals have you run?

At under $20 a pair, IME they are still the way to go. You can buy a number of sets for less than a high end pinned pedal, and they will work far, far better than grip tape on an alloy frame (as well as be a lot less hassle). Tape will wear out very quickly, and even when fresh isn't going to provide a fraction of the grip of the even molded plastic pins.

I've been riding a long time, and I still can't stand aggressive pins on trail pedals, or stitches. The only time you're going to see an advantage from sharp metal pins is in wet conditions, and plastic pedals will still outperform grip tape in the wet by a longshot. I use them for park/DJ/pumptrack stuff all the time and have been pleasantly surprised by how well they work versus my 'high-end' pinned flat pedals.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Actually, plastic will always be slicker than grip tape when wet. Grip tape is similar to what they line a Navel carriers flight deck with ... trust me will stick when wet. I am less concerned about the grip with plastic pedals, more about durability. Rock plus plastic pedal repeatedly usually results in long walk home. I am unsure as to which ones my son ran but after replacing them 3 times he is now on Saints... Besides I would rather pay a couple extra bucks too never have to walk my bike out due to plastic pedals because they were cheap....

This as all pedal discussions go is subjective, I was giving a temporary solution for his wife, grip tape will provide her great grip on good flats untill she upgrades her shoes as noted. The idea was temporary and fits the OP's need, just an option to consider and a pretty good one if I do say so myself.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

plastic bmx pedals are not the same as the cheapie crap that breaks on the trail all the time.

I have a pair I commuted on for years (I forget the brand) that were something like $10 or $15 bux at the LBS. They're solid. The grip is nowhere near either set of pinned pedals I own, but they're functional pedals. Right now they reside in my parts bin as spares. Fat bikers use them in deep winter conditions because the plastic does not conduct heat away from their feet the way metal platforms do.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Phinias said:


> ....plastic will always be slicker than grip tape when wet....I am less concerned about the grip with plastic pedals, more about durability. Rock plus plastic pedal repeatedly usually results in long walk home.


True that unpinned plastic will be more slippery when wet, but then again, unpinned aluminum would be just as slippery if not moreso.

I've trashed and broken many metal pedals, as well as had no shortage of expensive ones basically fall apart mechanically in short order. There's really no big durability advantage IME. And they definitely hurt less.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> True that unpinned plastic will be more slippery when wet, but then again, unpinned aluminium would be just as slippery if not more so.


No it isn't. Cheap plastic pedals are garbage in the wet.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

E-Thirteen makes some pretty kick azz plastic pedals

e*thirteen components LG1 Plus Pedals | Competitive Cyclist


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

smilinsteve said:


> E-Thirteen makes some pretty kick azz plastic pedals
> 
> e*thirteen components LG1 Plus Pedals | Competitive Cyclist


Interesting, but $140 for plastic pedals... I can't for the life of me think what the advantage of this would be over cheaper metal with similar features.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Phinias said:


> Interesting, but $140 for plastic pedals... I can't for the life of me think what the advantage of this would be over cheaper metal with similar features.


It looks like the pedal has an aluminum center covered with top and bottom plastic "wear plates". The advantage, according to them, is that they can absorb impacts better than aluminum and the wear plates are replaceable.

But your foot rests on the plastic surface. I don't think it matters because it is the pins that give you grip.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> No it isn't. Cheap plastic pedals are garbage in the wet.


If you take a metal pedal designed to have pins in it, then REMOVE the pins, you have a smooth, flat metal surface which is in no way superior to a decent plastic BMX pedal with molded pins.

Picture this, but without the pins, in the wet:










Way better off with a set of these. Hell, I own both of these pedals and I like the Easterns better than the Bennies even with the pins in them unless I'm DHing or riding in the wet.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

You forgot to add the grip tape.... are you a politician you present your arguments like you could be... metal flats with grip tape will always be gripier that plastic pedals.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Phinias said:


> You forgot to add the grip tape.... are you a politician you present your arguments like you could be... metal flats with grip tape will always be gripier that plastic pedals.


Hmmmm, metal pedals with grip tape vs plastic pedals with pins molded in? I think we need an experiment!


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## Saladin (Sep 25, 2014)

MarcusBrody said:


> ....She's one of those 99% mental mountain bikers,....


Climbing on a bike and pretending to ride?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> If you take a metal pedal designed to have pins in it, then REMOVE the pins, you have a smooth, flat metal surface which is in no way superior to a decent plastic BMX pedal with moulded pins.


That's the dumbest argument I've heard on here. That's like saying 'If I take these plastic pedals and saw off the pins they'll be slippy'! Or saying 'If you remove the spindle from a plastic pedal it won't screw onto the crank as well as a metal one'.

And then you even admit yourself that you prefer the metal pedals in the wet!!..


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> That's the dumbest argument I've heard on here. That's like saying 'If I take these plastic pedals and saw off the pins they'll be slippy'! Or saying 'If you remove the spindle from a plastic pedal it won't screw onto the crank as well as a metal one'.


OOoooo boy this is getting fun!
The metal pedal with out pins was an example of how metal is also slippery when wet.
It is a fair comparison if metal pins are not an option but plastic pedals with molded in pins are an option.

The other comparison made here was with plastic vs metal pedals and grip tape, but grip tape could be stuck on to plastic pedals as well. The real showdown needs to be grip tape vs moulded plastic pins!



> And then you even admit yourself that you prefer the metal pedals in the wet!!..


Yeah he did, but he was talking about metal pedals with pins, which are not an option.


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## Fairbanks007 (Sep 5, 2009)

I'd recommend shin guards and MTB specific shoes like 5.10's.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Fairbanks007 said:


> I'd recommend shin guards and MTB specific shoes like 5.10's.


I think that is the plan, the OP mentioned her waiting for the new 5.10's that are made for women coming out in spring. We are debating the virtures of plastic pedal with molded in pins vs the possibility of Alumm flats with pins temporarily removed and grip tape installed.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

smilinsteve said:


> OOoooo boy this is getting fun!
> The metal pedal with out pins was an example of how metal is also slippery when wet.
> It is a fair comparison if metal pins are not an option but plastic pedals with molded in pins are an option.
> 
> ...


Thanks for explaining that to MR P - seemed he jumped in without reading the previous posts. Gotta read all the werds, lest you start tossing around insults when you in fact are the one that's missed the point.

Buying set of alloy pedals for 2-3 times the price (minimum), removing the pins, then cutting and installing grip tape (and likely gumming up the threads for the pins with adhesive) would be functional. Assuming decent shoes in both cases, I still strongly believe that pinned plastic pedals would work much better, would definitely be a lot cheaper, and would require no tinkering beyond simply installing the pedals. Though if you already had a set of pinned pedals and some tape around (and didn't mind the thought of having to clean adhesive out of the pin holes down the road), the grip tape idea might work decently while it was fairly fresh.

I'm way too unwilling to spend a bunch of extra time and money for what would most likely be an inferior result to be a politician.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

.... just think of it as thread lock.....lol.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

I think plastic pedals are stupid idea because they are less grippy than pinned metal. 

The is to get her feet staying on the pedals so that she feels more confident. If straps or clips are not the way she wants to go, which I would agree with for now, then metal pinned are the most secure option you've got. 

So why get plastic ones? Even with moulded pins, plastic pedals will be less grippy, especially when wet, so there is more chance her feet will slip off. The moulded pins may not be made of metal but they would still hurt almost as much! Basically, they are just less good so what's the point?

I would buy good pedals and ask her to give them a try. Explain that nothing else grips as well. I reckon that once she feels how secure they are she'll be sold and accept the risk posed by the scary pins. That's kinda what we all do! ;0)


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> I think plastic pedals are stupid idea because they are less grippy than pinned metal.
> 
> The is to get her feet staying on the pedals so that she feels more confident. If straps or clips are not the way she wants to go, which I would agree with for now, then metal pinned are the most secure option you've got.
> 
> ...


No, actually it's not. And since the OP specifically asked for a compromise that didn't come with metal pins, suggesting them isn't really all that helpful. As far as nothing gripping as well, clipless pedals grip better than any platform, does that mean running pinned platforms is stupid? Of course not; there are times when they can be the best option. But again, the question wasn't 'what's the grippiest pedal I can get", so there's really no point in using that as a criteria, is there?

So just out of curiousity, how much time have you spent on a decent set of plastic pedals in different conditions? Are you basing your opinion on a experience? How many times have you taken yourself or a friend for stitches from aggressively pinned pedals? It's a shitty, painful, and very avoidable way to end a day. Having taken countless whacks from both types, I can tell you as fact: plastic pins aren't likely to do nearly as much damage as metal ones. Yeah, you'll still get the bruises, but you'll shed a lot less blood. And if the OP's girl isn't the hard-core, ride-in-any-weather type, wet performance really doesn't matter. (Good sticky soles also do a great job mitigating this concern though.) In regular conditions on terrain most beginners are likely to tackle, good plastic pedals are more than adequate. I regularly watch BMXers do things on them on that are gnarlier than most anything I've ever seen anyone do on an MTB. They're for sure grippy enough for someone getting into trail riding. Unless she's doing a lot of ledge grinds and whatnot, which I kinda doubt, they'll hold up fine.



Full-wrap shin pads will definitely help, but not everybody feels like strapping on armor ever time they go for a spin. I know I don't.

Now I'm off to the shed to pull my ridiculous Synchros leg shredders off bike and put on some clipless for a big, wet trail ride tomorrow. Scary bastards they are...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Damn those sure look like meat grinders.


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## OutLore (Aug 9, 2013)

I thought about this for Mrs. OutLore and a buddy of mine who I am trying to get to ride with... I think you can switch the pins over, like the pins in the middle of these DMR's - so long as the pedals have pins that go right through, and one side of the pin is not really sharp - the hex heads here would offer some grip but I doubt would do much more damage than a bruise if whacked into a shin.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> So just out of curiosity, how much time have you spent on a decent set of plastic pedals in different conditions? Are you basing your opinion on a experience?


I have never tried those specific ones shown. I have tried/used a large number of pedals including plastic. I reckon there are maybe ten pairs of plastic pedals in the shed just now. I'm pretty sure I'll have a pair that look quite similar to those but in black. Most bikes arrive with plastic pedals on. I put a pair on the bike by son leaves at the train station, that bike was made up of cheap parts and made to look really junk to reduce the chances of it being stolen. Those plastic pedals had 'teeth' moulded round the edge so I thought they would do the job but before long he was complaining about how slippery they were in the wet. I swapped them for pedals with a steel cage and he's happy with those. My daughter slipped off the plastic pedals of her hybrid cycling round the back garden! Buckled the front wheel, still can't figure out exactly how that happened. The MTB she rides off road has metal pedals with pins, so far so good.

People tend not to ride BMX's in the rain and mud. It depends on where you live obviously but for many of us riding off road pretty much guarantees regularly getting wet and muddy. The fact that metal pedals with pins are very popular for off road riding strongly suggests that they are ideal tools for the job. If plastic pedals offered similar performance with less risk wouldn't they be more popular?

I also have doubts around how durable those plastic pins are likely to be? Again it depends on what sort of trails you are riding on but my pedals get scraped off rocks often. I noticed the other day that my son has ripped a pin out of his pedals but for the most part they stand up to a lot of abuse. Surely tiny plastic pins are going to rip off far more easily?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

You're right on in that most of the stock plastic pedals that come on lower end bikes really suck. Doubly so when they get wet. And yes, metal pins will have more grip, and will hold up better. There are definitely good reasons to run them. But for someone starting out that doesn't want to rip themselves up, there is a level of comfort and confidence that comes with not worrying about getting gashed by pedals. A set of good plastics is a world of difference from a set of crappy ones (same thing goes for metal pedals - I have a number of lower end ones that totally suck azz in my pedal drawer of the spare parts cabinet) and the performance to price to 'safety' ratio was a real pleasant surprise when my son started really getting into riding. So much so that they found their way onto a few of my bikes, particularly my BMX and DJ bikes, where I operate in a perpetual beginner level and tend to mess up quite a bit. I rarely slip them, and they've definitely saved me some skin. And they're so cheap that longevity really isn't that much of a concern.


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