# Vitamin K2 (specifically MK7)



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Not K1.

Anyone supplementing with K2 MK7?

Dr. Ford Brewer has a series on cardiac health on YouTube that I've been watching. Apparently K2 MK7 is something very few westerners get and is beneficial. Apparently Natto tastes pretty bad!

It appears to be instrumental in activating mechanisms that inhibit/reverse calcium build ups in arteries. The specific mechanism appears to be that K2 MK7 carboxylates an enzyme (ucMGP) into its active form cMGP.

The same chemical - K2 MK7 has the same carboxylating effect on Osteocalcin, activating it which promote mineralization of bones.

So....inhibits calcification in arteries while helping to prevent osteoporosis and related issues.

There is also a correlation (as opposed to an actually proven causation) in which low levels of serum osteocalcin are related to greater levels of glucose intolerance and insulin resistance, and a reduction in HbA1c

More intriguing than definitive, for sure. I've been supplementing and I haven't mutated....yet....so that's good. Not sure if I'm benefiting, though.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

This is a more specific version of vitamin K? K is a major factor in blood clotting, as anyone on blood thinners knows. 

And I love natto! But yeah, a lot of non-Japanese don't.


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

yet there are no completed trials elucidating the clinical effect of vitamin K on vascular calcification or bone strength....


so I'm sticking with my favorite food supplement for now...which is food

natto is something you need to eat, to get used to it, then you'll crave it
much like a good beer, or coffee. first taste yuk, then you want more


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

127.0.0.1 said:


> yet there are no completed trials elucidating the clinical effect of vitamin K on vascular calcification or bone strength....


Incorrect.

Beulens JW, Bots ML, Atsma F, et al. High dietary menaquinone intake is associated with reduced coronary calcification. Atherosclerosis. 2009;203(2):489-493.

Geleijnse JM, Vermeer C, Grobbee DE, et al. Dietary intake of menaquinone is associated with a reduced risk of coronary heart disease: the Rotterdam Study. J Nutr. 2004;134(11):3100-3105.

Theuwissen E, Smit E, Vermeer C. The role of vitamin K in soft-tissue calcification. Adv Nutr. 2012;3(2):166-173.

Knapen MH, Schurgers LJ, Vermeer C. Vitamin K2 supplementation improves hip bone geometry and bone strength indices in postmenopausal women. Osteoporos Int. 2007;18(7):963-972.

Berkner KL, Runge KW. The physiology of vitamin K nutriture and vitamin K-dependent protein function in atherosclerosis. J Thromb Haemost. 2004;2(12):2118-2132.

Garber AK, Binkley NC, Krueger DC, Suttie JW. Comparison of phylloquinone bioavailability from food sources or a supplement in human subjects. J Nutr. 1999;129(6):1201-1203.

Gast GC, de Roos NM, Sluijs I, et al. A high menaquinone intake reduces the incidence of coronary heart disease. Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2009;19(7):504-510.

Schlieper G, Westenfeld R, Krüger T, et al. Circulating nonphosphorylated carboxylated matrix gla protein predicts survival in ESRD. J Am Soc Nephrol. 2011;22(2):387-395.

Schurgers LJ, Barreto DV, Barreto FC, et al. The circulating inactive form of matrix gla protein is a surrogate marker for vascular calcification in chronic kidney disease: a preliminary report. Clin J Am Soc Nephrol. 2010;5(4):568-575.

Ikeda Y, Iki M, Morita A, et al. Intake of fermented soybeans, natto, is associated with reduced bone loss in postmenopausal women: Japanese Population-Based Osteoporosis (JPOS) Study. J Nutr. 2006;136(5):1323-1328.

Kaneki M, Hodges SJ, Hosoi T, et al. Japanese fermented soybean food as the major determinant of the large geographic difference in circulating levels of vitamin K2: possible implications for hip-fracture risk. Nutrition. 2001;17(4):315-321.

Sato T, Schurgers LJ, Uenishi K. Comparison of menaquinone-4 and menaquinone-7 bioavailability in healthy women. Nutr J. 2012 Nov;11:93.

Cranenburg EC, Vermeer C, Koos R, et al. The circulating inactive form of matrix Gla Protein (ucMGP) as a biomarker for cardiovascular calcification. J Vasc Res. 2008;45(5):427-436.39.

Beulens JW, Booth SL, van den Heuvel EG, Stoecklin E, Baka A, Vermeer C. The role of menaquinones (vitamin K2) in human health. Br J Nutr. 2013;110(8):1357-1368.

I suppose I could go on....

Besides, there are all sorts of situations in which supplementation makes sense. Pregnant women, post menopausal woman, the elderly, people on plant only diets, physiologically compromised individuals, those suffering from some disease processes and those on a number of medications.


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

chazpat said:


> This is a more specific version of vitamin K? K is a major factor in blood clotting, as anyone on blood thinners knows.
> 
> And I love natto! But yeah, a lot of non-Japanese don't.


Yes, K2 is different than K1.


----------



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

So,in your OP, when you asked if anyone is supplementing with this, where can one find a quality-assured form of it to try? Is it very expensive?


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

MSU Alum said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> Beulens JW, Bots ML, Atsma F, et al. High dietary menaquinone intake is associated with reduced coronary calcification. Atherosclerosis. 2009;203(2):489-493.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

My wife makes miso soup almost every day in the winter so I guess I'm covered.


----------



## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

chazpat said:


> My wife makes miso soup almost every day in the winter so I guess I'm covered.


Lucky!


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

There is no probiotic I've ever consumed that has such a positive impact on my gut as miso. Wonderful stuff.


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Miso.....hmmm. My current favorite is yeast, in drinkable form, from home brewed beer. It actually is pretty effective, at least psychologically.
When I got a torso scan for cancer (years ago, since resolved/cured/gone, thank goodness) there was some calcification in various soft tissue areas. I'm taking K2 on the chance that the calcium can be redistributed.
As to quality sources, other than natural, I'm taking Innoxivlabs K2 MK4 (500mcg) and MK7 (100mcg). I don't recall it being expensive and I can't guarantee there aren't better products. I also wouldn't take it without researching it. I'm not an expert!


----------



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I never take supplements. At 61 i am healthy and slim.
To have a daily fermented intake i drink beer, never on an empty stomach.
Eat european cheese, most are fermented.
Sauerkraut. For bread i buy them with fermentation.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

WHALENARD said:


> There is no probiotic I've ever consumed that has such a positive impact on my gut as miso. Wonderful stuff.


Well, Japan does have one of the longest life expectancies on the planet, well above the US. Just googled and found them at #2 (Monaco was #1). US was #43 and declining due to "higher rates of suicide and drug overdoses".


----------



## BlackCanoeDog (Jul 26, 2003)

127.0.0.1 said:


> yet there are no completed trials elucidating the clinical effect of vitamin K on vascular calcification or bone strength....
> 
> so I'm sticking with my favorite food supplement for now...which is food
> 
> ...


Had to google natto, never heard of that! Fermented soy beans, so would tofu be considered ecquivelent?


----------



## Ryder1 (Oct 12, 2006)

BlackCanoeDog said:


> Had to google natto, never heard of that! Fermented soy beans, so would tofu be considered ecquivelent?


Tofu isn't fermented. Nothing natural compares to natto, which is off the charts. I instead supplement with K7 (along with 4k D3 and 200-400mg magnesium).


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

K2 is part of my daily supplement cocktail:

~ C0Q10 400mg(Endothelial Health)
~ Vitamin C 1000mg (Lung damage healing/immune system)
~ Niacin 500mg (Triglyceride control)
~ Zinc 150mg (Testosterone and Immune Booster)
~ Chromium Picolinate 800mcg (Insulin Regulation)
~ Vitamin D3 2000mg (Osteo Health)
~ Aspirin 325mg (Cardiovascular Health)

**I'm a 56-year-old former meth addict and smoker, with 15 years clean. I have recovered from Congestive Heart Failure, at age 42 and has been taking this cocktail for 15 years, with clean blood panels and good serum Testosterone levels, but slightly elevated Cholesterol(sorry, I love my Steak, Lobster & Eggs!).


----------



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

i agree tofu is like french fries. At the start potatoes are fine but the end product is nothing close to fine.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

33red said:


> i agree tofu is like french fries. At the start potatoes are fine but the end product is nothing close to fine.


Poorly prepared tofu is not the fault of the tofo.


----------



## CaptainA (Jan 2, 2020)

*congrats*

congratulations on 15 clean years! cayenne pepa


----------

