# Sticky  A word from E-bike Forum Moderator Mtbbiker - Guidelines



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Wanted to mention that we wanted to grow the ebike forum and allow great discussions, especially on products.

We'll have some guidelines that we're refining. Something like this:

· Ebike forum is for generating a positive experience, no drama or trolls.
· This section is for discussion of ebike, ebike specific accessories, stories or what's new in the OEM.
· Let's talk about legal only trails. Any talk about illegal riding can be deleted at moderators discretion - *Discussion about trail advocacy or new eMTB trail access shall be discussed in the Trail Advocacy Section.*
· Any post about derestricting/modifying software will be deleted.
· OEM bike discussion and technologies is the key target (Specialized, Giant, YT, Trek, Focus, Pivot, etc&#8230. Add-on motors, limit discussions to under 1000 watt varieties
· Threads started to purposefully incite other users will be deleted.
· If you cannot tell a difference between a motorcycle and class 1 or 2 ebike, please don't post.

Thank you for your support!
fc and craig aka mtbbiker


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

This is a great idea. I've noticed a gradual change in this forum from arguments about access and motors to topics actually about the bikes themselves, presumably because more people are riding them, and your focus will definitely help this evolution.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

I agree,

Let's show people E is great! From what I deal with in the shop with E, I feel the, electrons, and ions are "not important" to most people. We put them on an e bike and let them ride out in the lot. That in itself usuaully does the trick and they buy. All the talk of power and batteries is secondary to most folks. They just wanna ride the bike somewhere.

So stories and tales of where to ride, how to ride, and reasons to ride are the main objective now.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

JackWare said:


> This is a great idea. I've noticed a gradual change in this forum from arguments about access and motors to topics actually about the bikes themselves, presumably because more people are riding them, and your focus will definitely help this evolution.


Actually because the access discussions are moved to a section of the forum dedicated to Trail access:

https://forums.mtbr.com/trail-building-advocacy/


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

JackWare said:


> This is a great idea. I've noticed a gradual change in this forum from arguments about access and motors to topics actually about the bikes themselves, presumably because more people are riding them, and your focus will definitely help this evolution.





Klurejr said:


> Actually because the access discussions are moved to a section of the forum dedicated to Trail access:
> 
> https://forums.mtbr.com/trail-building-advocacy/


Just a reminder. ;-)


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2020)

Welcome aboard Craig :lol::lol::lol:


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Not sure if you really mean it, but I’ll take it as a goodwill gesture, thanks Dark Meat😁!


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

fc said:


> · Let's talk about legal only trails. Any talk about illegal riding can be deleted at moderators discretion


Just a reminder. Legal Trails only please.


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## vtuvia (May 14, 2020)

this is VTUVIA, can I send our ebikes pictures here? and share links?


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## Annabel W (Jul 21, 2020)

I think moderators like yourselves need much credit. What a lot of work and concentration you undertake. Thank you for your efforts.


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## Aksotar (Nov 16, 2020)

After spending some time browsing this site I've noticed that emtb's seem to be treated like a bastard child... this site seems to minimize them... in the classified sections there is no category that I could find for them yet every other type of bike has it's own section... am I missing something ? Am I wrong ?? Anyone else feel this way ? Just curious....


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Aksotar said:


> *.. in the classified sections there is no category that I could find for them yet every other type of bike has it's own section...* am I missing something ? Am I wrong ?? Anyone else feel this way ? Just curious....


If you already haven't checked out PinkBikes BuySell classifies for Ebikes I recommend you check them out!
Seems like there are many ebikes and ebikers out there!


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## AmMtnBikeRiders (Oct 24, 2020)

As part of the only national organization, American Mountain Bike Riders, that advocates for ALL mountain bike access, including eMTBs, I want to add that it’s great that MTB has a more open attitude on eMTB access.

I would, however, disagree on the position that “Any talk about illegal riding can be deleted at moderators discretion.” I’m not for illegal riding, but advocating for opening the miles and miles of trails closed to eMTBs should be allowed here. Not restricted to the “Trails Building and Advocacy” Forum. It’s where anti-eMTBs troll for post to attack, puff up their elitists chests, and look down on eMTB riders.

This forum should be the place eMTB riders feel appropriate to post comments and information on eMTB access.
Pls, consider including that eMTB access, if close access, is welcomed here.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

AmMtnBikeRiders said:


> I would, however, disagree on the position that "Any talk about illegal riding can be deleted at moderators discretion." I'm not for illegal riding, but advocating for opening the miles and miles of trails closed to eMTBs should be allowed here.


Any talk on how to get trails that are closed to eBikes opened is welcomed. The intent of that sentence is people speaking about actively riding trails where eMTB is currently not allowed is a major NO-NO for any advocacy. Surly you can understand how that harms the efforts of those trying to make the trails legal.


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## AmMtnBikeRiders (Oct 24, 2020)

Boasting or advocating illegal riding is harmful and mostly ego. No difference of opinion there.

Determining what is in illegal riding, however, is not always as apparent as you may think. For example, the US Forest Service continues to assert that under its rules an eMTB is classified as a motor vehicle and barred from non-motorized trails. 

Reading the same rules, however, both American Mountain Bike Riders and People for Bikes, the nationwide advocate for entire bike industry, have concluded and told the USFS that its rules do not in fact define a Class 1 pedal-assist eMTB as a motor vehicle and don’t bar eMTBs from non-motorized trails. The Forest Supervisor of a National Forest with extensive non-motorized trails for MTBs has said the same thing. 

The USFS also takes the position that there can be no exceptions for riders with disabilities to use an eMTB on a non-motorized trail. Most disability rights advocates would question the out-of-hand predetermined rejection of any accommodations for legitimate disabilities.

Perhaps it is the USFS that is acting illegally and contrary to its own regulations.

That is the kind of discussion that should be heard. I think you agree.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

AmMtnBikeRiders said:


> Boasting or advocating illegal riding is harmful and mostly ego. No difference of opinion there.
> 
> Determining what is in illegal riding, however, is not always as apparent as you may think. For example, the US Forest Service continues to assert that under its rules an eMTB is classified as a motor vehicle and barred from non-motorized trails.
> 
> ...


Oh I know it is a hot topic and one that gets differing views from different organizations. The reason site leadership wants that discussion in the Trail building and advocacy forum is because that is an advocacy discussion.

The eBike section is specifically for the discussion of eBikes and eBikes parts and accessories.

MTBR encourages the active discussion of Trail advocacy for eBikes, just not in this particular section of the site. You will find many very experienced and knowledgeable site users who frequent the Trail Advocacy section of this site who will be honest and helpful to anyone who wants to go the correct channels to legalize eBike access where it currently is not legal. Yes you will probably engage with people who are more closed minded, but that should be a good challenge for your arguments since you will find the same sort of close minded arguments from other trail users that have very strong lobby's for trail access. If ANYONE makes a personal attack on you, or in some other way violates the sites posting guidelines please just report them so a moderator can handle it. Engaging in a flame war will not help anything or anyone.


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## AmMtnBikeRiders (Oct 24, 2020)

I’ve posted on enough mountain bike sites to have an opinion of what happens. Maybe a serious post or 2 and then the losers, cheaters, slacker, unfit, and unprepared comments take over. discussion stops.

And it will not be personal attacks at one poster, but characterizations of all eMTB riders. So no one gets called out.

A half a dozen studies have found that the perceptions of eMTB riders as lazy, unskilled, and uncommitted to fitness or the natural environment were strongest among mountain bikers than with hikers and other trail users. One study even found that mountain bike advocates are less likely to agree that e-MTBs should be allowed on trails than other mountain bikers.

I don’t doubt the sincerity of your belief. It’s MTBR’s site. Your right to organize as you wish. And if we ignore history, your thinking would be right on.

eMTB riders defending themselves in an ultimate cage fight forum is not likely to change the hostility and division within our own mountain bike community. Good luck.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

I put in a request on behalf of a user to include an eBike specific Classifieds section and it was just created:









eBikes







www.mtbr.com





Per the changes made to classifieds a few years ago it is okay to post an ad here in the main eBike section or in the new Classifieds section, or both. Just please be mindful about bumping your thread to get it up to the top of the list over and over again as that can annoy users.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Klurejr said:


> I put in a request on behalf of a user to include an eBike specific Classifieds section and it was just created:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good shot bro!


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## PS mtb (10 mo ago)

I have riden and raced mtb's for many years, and still have mtb's, but just bought a Orbea Rise Ltd to play on. It's still a bike, I still shift, pedal, and brake like my other bikes...Haters gonna hate, but I'll just do my thing and ride like always, but now with a little assist when needed for this soon to be 63 year old.


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## Dr Hollidaze (9 mo ago)

PS mtb said:


> I have riden and raced mtb's for many years, and still have mtb's, but just bought a Orbea Rise Ltd to play on. It's still a bike, I still shift, pedal, and brake like my other bikes...Haters gonna hate, but I'll just do my thing and ride like always, but now with a little assist when needed for this soon to be 63 year old.


"Ride on"..... Epower to the people! As a soon to be 71 year old outdoor rec enthusiast I've been living thru the elitist " hater's" fear and floating for the last 55 weeks yrs plus....be it winter sports, bike trails or 4wd access, haters are going to hate, let em lead follow or get outta the way (-* We have batteries and miles to burn!!!!


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## fredman1085 (10 mo ago)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Wanted to mention that we wanted to grow the ebike forum and allow great discussions, especially on products.
> 
> New moderator is mtbbiker and myself for now at:
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks. All good points to follow. I've personally been very disappointed by the trolls who post in other discussions with what would be deleted here. 

I bought my Trek Rail-7 early March this year and I couldn't be happier. It's reinvigorated my riding and love of mountain biking again. I was a pretty good weekend racer in the 90's but life, kids, job location move, and certain health issue took over in the 2000's and the e-bike is exactly what I needed to get back into this. Yes, I did try riding my old, 97 hardtail lightspeed, and while it's a good bike and I used to ride it quite well, it just wasn't 'fun' anymore. I also tried denying to myself for several years that I wanted an e-bike, insisting that I love climbing (and I do) but at my age, 63, and with my permanent health issues (asthma and arthritis), e-biking is exactly what the doctor ordered!!!!


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