# Another homemade triple Cree



## peterh88 (Apr 6, 2007)

Hi all,
I just had to share this light with you all.
I too decided that after a search of the local bike shops I just wasn't prepared to 
pay the asking price for a good set of lights. Naturally I wanted the brightest light set I
could afford.
So a search on internet found Allen Chapman and his triple lux (rectangle type) complete with all instructions on how to build the beast. So I prepared to make this light and jumped on the website of Cutter Electronics. On the website I found the Kathod lense that would take three Cree's grouped together.
I ordered all the parts needed to make two lights. Lucky me, I was on holidays so I had time to burn to get the lights made.
I made my helmut light exactly the same way as Allen made his, using a 1000mAh BuckPuck, 3 x Cree XR-E p4, Ledil lenses and the usual electronics from jaycar.
The second light I made started with the same electronics and the same P4 Cree's.
The difference is the Lense.







The lense diameter is 50mm so It was an easy process to find some 50mm o.d. tube and cut it to length.
I had to relieve the inside of the tube to make insertion of the lense possible.







After the lense was sorted I turned down some solid alloy to fit inside the 50mm tube
and cut one piece (20mm) for a heatsink and one piece(5mm) for an end cap.
So I fitted the led's and lense to my heatsink.







Fitted all the electronics and finished with a bit of paint to get a light that out shines all my mates 10w, 20w halogens easily.
Here are some pics of the finished product.















I am very impressed with the light produced, but I have ordered some Q2 Cree's.
I am going to make this light the same way but I can shorten this unit by around 20mm by using a bflex which I have also ordered.
I will let you know how this one goes.

cheers
Peter


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## NickNR (Mar 28, 2007)

Nice, well done! 3 questions - Is it heavy? How hot does it get? What batteries are you using? Nick


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

Good job!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

What angle have the optic?? can you put a beamshot?

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## peterh88 (Apr 6, 2007)

Hi Nick,
The optics are 10 degress. I should have posted a link I guess, so here it is.
http://cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut561
The weight is 180 grams but the batteries I am using adds another 800 grams.
This light never even gets warm when riding and only after about 30 mins standing still does if get warm.
With this in mind I think the next build with the Q2 binned Cree's I will use a thinner heatsink and cut the length of the tube down by about 20mm.
This should get the weight of the light down to 120-140 grams.
I am also trying to get Li-on battery pack and charger to bring the weight down.
Anybody know where I can get these in Australia????
As for the beam shots, I have them but my camera has no manual shutter selections and the pics I have do no justice for how bright this light really is. Lets just say that as soon as I have made the Q2 binned version, I have 6 mates who are willing to ditch their 20w halogens for my led's.







That wall is 20 meters away and if you compare it to the 3 led cheapy I used for a couple of weeks (below) you can see the difference








Cheers
Peter


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## strathconaman (Oct 29, 2006)

Looks Great.


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

Nice job Pete -
Have looked for batteries in Australia without much luck -only stuff from hobby/RC shops.
Batteryspace have a great range of protected lithiums/chargers but the shipping costs as much as the item you want.
Maybe a group buy would make getting batteries from there feasable -if enough Aussies chipped in.

Cheers
Dom


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

peterh88 said:


> I am also trying to get Li-on battery pack and charger to bring the weight down.
> Anybody know where I can get these in Australia????


Peter

Try this: http://www.siomar.com/ I think they are in Western Australia and certainly have lithium-ion batteries and I assume chargers.

Tim


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## peterh88 (Apr 6, 2007)

Thanks guys,
I have emailed the battery book like a hundred times trying to find out what they have on offer, still waiting for some type of reply.
As for batteryspace.com. your right the freight charges far out weight the savings of the li-on batteries.
Lets try and get a group buy together, I'll need 6 off 14.8v 5200mah, who else needs some?

Peter


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

Hi Peter
If you get the $30 chargers for the batteries as well -your total $ comes almost to the AU custom limit of $1000 -don't know what their charges are -but looking at the customs site it could be near $200.
So group buy may not be necessary for you.

I just went thru the Batteryspace forms to see how much that would cost you.
US$670 for the goods and US$122 for shipping.
Pretty good if you consider how much any type of lithium battery and charger(if you can even get one!) cost in AU.
I saw a Topeak lithium battery at my local bike shop for $200 -nowhere near the capacity of yours!

I had only wanted to buy about $100 worth of stuff and the shipping was $70 -but i want quite a few more things now. Should be well worth it.

You are obviously going to make some more light for your mates 

P.S. Have you thought of putting a rubber or plastic protection ring around the front rim of your light -might save cracking the lense in a stack.

You have to sign up at Batteryspace and PayPal is the best payment option by the looks of it.

Cheers
Dom


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Great job Peter! That's a very nice looking light. With the availability of the round Khatod, it really opens up the ability to build a nice, simple, round triple. I guess the only real drawback is that you can't mix optics among the three (i.e., one 5 degree and two 15 degree optics). Also, having to machine the heatsink and endcap might be beyond most people's tooling abilities... although I have thought about purchasing a mini lathe 

Thanks for sharing and good luck on your battery hunt.


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## slaw (Apr 6, 2004)

I have had Li-ion packs made up by Siomar (battery book). Phone call can sometimes help move things along with them.


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## peterh88 (Apr 6, 2007)

Hey Slaw,
Thanks for the info, I will give them a call tomorrow and see if I can hurry thigs up.
What kind of battery packs did you have made and can they supply a charger to suit??
Did you find their prices comparable to the likes of Battery space?, minus the freight??

Chers
Peter


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## slaw (Apr 6, 2004)

I bought 2 batteries both 7.4V 4.4AH plastic dipped, with protection circuits and a smart charger for $155 delivered to Melbourne. ($44 each battery, $57 for the charger and $10 delivery) This was late 2003, so I don't recall if batteryspace was an option then.

I've used them with 6V halogen globes, but now I'm thinking that they'll suit a triple LED setup with a boost driver.


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## jawry (Jan 22, 2004)

*Batteries*

Try this lot for 14.8 Li-ion's

http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/battery & charger details.htm

They have a 'new' endurez blast in the pipeline that (by all reports) should be similar in output to the new wilma at a very (non euro) price.

Love your lights - wish i was good at building stuff

cheers,

Jawry


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## alonfo (Jul 25, 2004)

Hello, a beautiful project, it looks great.

I already orderd the parts to build similar light. How did you attached the lens and the heatsink to the tube ? can you post more photos inside the tube ?

How did you wire the leds ? from negative to positive ? can you post diagram ?

Thank's !


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## peterh88 (Apr 6, 2007)

Hi Alonfo,
I will add some pics of the inside and some wiring diagrams this weekend.
I have received the Cree Q2's and I have a new smaller, lighter unit up and running.
The beamshots tell the story.:thumbsup: 







Notice the very brightspot in the centre of the Q2's. Can't wait to try this on the trail.
I have also brought some 25 degs Kathod lenses to try for a different spread of light.
I will try to post some pics of the 25 deg lense on the weekend.

Cheers

Peter


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## cameraboy (Apr 13, 2007)

wow. thats tight.


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## Tony_J_Ross (Dec 4, 2006)

How are things working out with Siomar (Battery Book) for 14.8V batts ?

I put together an order with batteryspace and I couldn't believe the freight charge until I read this thread. $80 US for a delivery as big as a shoe box ? Crazy stuff.

I'm amazed you can't get the same stuff here in Australia, especially since we have places like Cutters that are supplying folks in the USA with LED's.

Tony


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Tony_J_Ross said:


> How are things working out with Siomar (Battery Book) for 14.8V batts ?
> 
> I put together an order with batteryspace and I couldn't believe the freight charge until I read this thread. $80 US for a delivery as big as a shoe box ? Crazy stuff.
> 
> ...


I saw in one of the threads (maybe this one?) that all-battery.com offers USPS (United States Postal Service) as a shipping option, and that method is much cheaper to ship to AU. Check it out.

Edit: I went in and put in a fake Melbourne AU shipping address at all-battery and came up with $16.40 (US Dollars I assume) to ship a battery pack via USPS Air Parcel Post.

Hope this helps.
- Allen


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## peterh88 (Apr 6, 2007)

Hi Tony,
I did get in contact with the guys at Battery Book and received this email in return.
As you will see the price of the chargers is stupidly high.



> Hello,
> 
> We would use a 3 pin connector in your case as per data sheet attached but otherwise that's what the packs look like, We can also modify it to your needs for example, they can also have a cable on each end or two coming out of one end if you want a separate cable for your light and charger.
> 
> ...


Hard call when I can get these batteries and including a charger for $95.00
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2-x-7-2V-330...hZ012QQcategoryZ84443QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Cheers

Peter


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## slaw (Apr 6, 2004)

So the batteries have tripled in price since I got them in 2003 and the charger doubled in price, assuming that they are similar (my cells are 2.2AH). That sucks big time.

However, that ebay battery is NiMh of a different capacity, so it's not a fair comparison, but that doesn't matter if it suits your needs.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Dang Peter, that Q2 really cuts through. I still haven't gotten my Q2s from Cutter but after I emailed Ben Riley last night, suggesting to go ahead and cancel my order, he replied that my order had shipped. Hmmm. We'll see. It's only been since last November that I ordered  Oh well, I know it was mostly out of his control.


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## STS01 (Dec 29, 2005)

I'm another aussie faced with the battery price dilemna.

From what I've seen our best options are:

Web store: all-battery.com who despite what their FAQs state will ship to Aus

FleaBay: http://myworld.ebay.com.au/newtonsofsale/ (actually in Australia)
http://myworld.ebay.com.au/eee4u/

My battery searching has raised a couple of questions though- are the packs made up from AA's suitable for hi power light usage? I'm planning a pair of double Cree XR-E's to run at 1000mA and have found some 9.6V 2500mAh packs http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=300102619956&rd=1&rd=1 for decent prices and want to check if they are OK?

Also, and this may well be a silly question, if I choose to get dimmable buckpucks does dimming the lights actually extend battery duration or is the power just being dissipated into resistors?


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

STS01 said:


> I'm another aussie faced with the battery price dilemna.
> 
> From what I've seen our best options are:
> 
> ...


Yes. Dimming the light with a dimmable Buckpuck will make the batteries last longer.


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## ZipMTB (Jan 29, 2004)

*Group buys?*

I have been following these threads regadring the battery issues and Australia and it got me to thinking, "How could I help?"

I know on CPF they have group buys for everything where one person orders it all, then sends it out to those who participated? Is this a way around the price and duties?

If so, I would be willing to offer up some help in this area. If I could order the stuff in the U.S. then ship it to you guys, would this avoid the high price/duties.

If so let me know. Nothing in it for me really, but I've recived all kinds of help both here and CPF so I guess it is time to pay it back (or foward).

Let me know if this would help.


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## alonfo (Jul 25, 2004)

peterh88 said:


> I will add some pics of the inside and some wiring diagrams this weekend.
> Peter


Hi,

I dont want to bother, I just recived all the parts and I want to build this great light.

How did you attached the lens and the heatsink to the tube ? can you post more photos inside the tube ?


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## Bikeroo (Apr 29, 2007)

*Local batteries etc*



STS01 said:


> I'm another aussie faced with the battery price dilemna.
> ..........................


Hi guys! 

How about HID-Technologies? (as advertised in MTBA mag)

http://hidtechnologies.com.au/batteries.htm

Sure, they are 11.1V but wouldn't they work well anyway.....or how about using a Cutter Electronics BoostPuck to up the voltage?

Let me know if I am dreaming.....I am about to invest in this technology and blind some local nightlife on the north shore.... 

Benno.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

Nice work *Peter*, your light looks like a very nice solution! :thumbsup:

Is your heat sink a friction fit in the inside of the housing? With that much mass it probably won't matter too much, but if you have a nice thermal connection with the outer shell you will see much better lumen maintenance in the long run. 

Just a heads up with the Aussie battery situation for those who are wondering, the packs that Night Lightning sell are manufactured by Siomar / Battery Book. They use quality cells, a high quality battery protection circuit (unlike some online battery retailers), they are nicely constructed, and the charger is a decent solution.

Recently Night Lightning have started packaging their cells in a neat fibreglass tube to offer a little more impact protection, and the packs and chargers come with a Molex standard plug as used by Night Lightning, Stenlight and an increasing number of other lighting manufacturers. Shipping should be cheap from New Zealand, and you'll receive excellent customer service.

I assume that the packs directly from Siomar / Battery Book will still be the older plastic dipped solution, and I guess the plugs would be your own choice *slaw*? I have heard conflicting reports of quality of service; your mileage may vary&#8230;

If looking at Lithium Ion solutions from overseas online retailers, just remember to take note of the quality of the battery protection circuit and quality of the cells, its well worth looking in to and researching before making a purchase. 

Cheers, Dave.


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## slaw (Apr 6, 2004)

Low_Rider said:


> ...
> Just a heads up with the Aussie battery situation for those who are wondering, the packs that Night Lightning sell are manufactured by Siomar / Battery Book. They use quality cells, a high quality battery protection circuit (unlike some online battery retailers), they are nicely constructed, and the charger is a decent solution.
> 
> Recently Night Lightning have started packaging their cells in a neat fibreglass tube to offer a little more impact protection, and the packs and chargers come with a Molex standard plug as used by Night Lightning, Stenlight and an increasing number of other lighting manufacturers. Shipping should be cheap from New Zealand, and you'll receive excellent customer service.
> ...


I can only go by my one purchase from Siomar of a few years ago. After a while, one of my batteries was not charging up. I sent it back for them and they replaced the protection board as well as resealed it a bit more thoroughly with plastic dip. I thought at the time that maybe one or more of my cells was stuffed, but was told that that was unlikely given the quality of the cells that they use. I had got the battery a bit wet from a rainy ride so that caused the failure of the protection board.

I'm sure you could order your own plugs as they do build to order. Their default setup is for mini-XLRs. They do need 3 wires to the charger for the temparature detect in the protection circuit.


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## peterh88 (Apr 6, 2007)

> Is your heat sink a friction fit in the inside of the housing? With that much mass it probably won't matter too much, but if you have a nice thermal connection with the outer shell you will see much better lumen maintenance in the long run.


HI Dave, The heatsink is a slide fit inside the tube and is kept in place by the bolt holding the mounting bracket on.
As you said with the size of the block I used I have no trouble with heat at all.
With my latest Q2 light I cut the heatsink down to 10mm and still I have no trouble with heat at all.



> Recently Night Lightning have started packaging their cells in a neat fibreglass tube to offer a little more impact protection, and the packs and chargers come with a Molex standard plug as used by Night Lightning, Stenlight and an increasing number of other lighting manufacturers. Shipping should be cheap from New Zealand, and you'll receive excellent customer service.assume that the packs directly from Siomar / Battery Book will still be the older plastic dipped solution, and I guess the plugs would be your own choice slaw? I have heard conflicting reports of quality of service; your mileage may vary&#8230;


Good point Dave, I should have mentioned I suppose that the prices for the battery packs included the fibreglass shell. Looks like Night Lightning may be a re-seller for Battery Book.

Cheers Peter


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## peterh88 (Apr 6, 2007)

alonfo said:


> Hi,
> 
> I dont want to bother, I just recived all the parts and I want to build this great light.
> 
> How did you attached the lens and the heatsink to the tube ? can you post more photos inside the tube ?


Hey Alonfo, I thought I had some pics of the inside electronics, I do have some but I don't think they will be of any help to you.
If you are using a buck puck the connections are shown on the body under where the corresponding wires are located.
Check out achesalot instructions for construction of a triple Cree, there is a lot of great information and set out very well in a step by step process.
http://myfwyc.org/bikeled/DIY_LED_Bike_Lighting_Guide.html
The round tube you are building is basically the same except for the shape.
Follow this link to the Cree LED and you will find the wiring diagram for the triple.
http://www.cutter.com.au/search.php?nobox=&scat=&stext=cree&stype=&sprice=&pg=4

Hope this helps

Cheers Peter


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## marti (Oct 18, 2005)

Re batterys in Aus, I have no idea what the specs are on the AyUp LiPo batteries other than they have 2 models which run 2 x 3W LEDS for 3 or 6 hours (depends on the model battery) and they sell for $22 and $35 Ex GST, could be an option, they even have little neoprene bags for the batteries for $5 made to attach to your stem/helmet (the 3 hr battery is only 70 grams so made to go on your helmet).

I have ordered the whole standard kit as frankly I dont have time for the custom route and they are a bargain but the batteries may be a good cheap alternative for custom LED options. Dave your welcome to check out the battery packs in Launceston if you want, should have them in a few days few days.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

Wow that’s cheap! I assume they’re likely twin cell packs.

Bugger the packs though - I’m keen to check out the lights, thanks for the heads up!  


As fate would have it (or more my own stupidity) after many years of faultless use I have accidentally destroyed the protection circuity in my Siomar 4 cell, 2.2Ah pack on my test bench, doing stupid stuff I should have known better not to do. It’s totally my fault and the protection circuity did its job.  

Within 24hrs I have received a number of emails from Siomar, and while I was offered a great deal on a complete pack rebuild, they had no problems with me buying a replacement protection circuit and rebuilding the pack myself. Their customer service and product knowledge is nothing short of superb. :thumbsup:

I’ll create a new thread within a few days to share my stupidity and subsequent fix.  :madman: :eekster: 

Dave.


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## marti (Oct 18, 2005)

AyUps have landed and look fantastic, very well built. Dave PM me if you want a look.

Batteries are 7.4V LiPo, the 3 hr ($22 one) is 1250MAH, the 6hr ($35 one) is 2600MAH, atleast thats what the sticker on the side says. Chargers are about $50 odd for the bits (charger and a 12V plug pack) from memory but the AyUp web site is down at the moment, maybe they are updating the site so its not so flash oriantated.


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## alonfo (Jul 25, 2004)

Peter, I loved your design and I built one. I used Bflex with 13.2V 4500mA Ni-Mh battery from batteryspace.










I used the 10Deg Kathod lens, and run the bflex at 1A. the result is a powerfull white beam, but a little bit too much focused, on the spot side.

I took this picture for comparison, all was taken at the same manual mode.

my homemade 20W halogen:









NiteRider HID:









the triple cree:









Fenix L2D-CE - Turbo mode









I was wandering maby the 25Deg lens will be more suitable for bar light. I think that the 10Deg is great for a helmet light, but on the bar I want more flood.

maby someone have comparison between the 10deg and the 25deg lens from Khatod ? 
http://cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut561


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## dsut4392 (Mar 9, 2007)

I purchased a 14.8V 2.2AH pack and charger from Siomar about a year ago, total cost was about $170 shipped to Tassie. Mine came packed in the round fibreglass tube exactly as re-sold by nightlightning. I can't imagine why anyone would want to pay the incredible markup nightlightning charge.
Regarding the Ay-Ups, they get their claimed battery life by running their LEDs at low current, which means they are quite dim (so I'm told). They do look incredibly nice but I imagine heat dissipation could be an issue running them at higher power.


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## peterh88 (Apr 6, 2007)

I finally settled on a 14.4V 4400maH battery from All Battery.
With the exchange rate for the aussie dollar at the moment being high I got the battery and a multi charger shipped to Aus for A$136.00
Pretty good value I thought.

Peter


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