# 3D bicycle and frame design



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi,

this is Carlos from Spain.

My first post in this forum is to show you my 3D computer designs of frames and bicycles.

First of all, sorry for my poor English, I´m improving but I know that I have to study a lot.

Now, I´m going to tell you how I started using my computer to design bicycles.

Since I was a child, I like drawing (dead people, cars, animals, landscapes...), then, I started my studies of engeneering and I learn how to use Autocad in 2D.

As I like bicycles, I started learning 3D modelling in Autocad by my own, and these are my designs from those days:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

As you can see, they are not very real, but I was proud of them.

The suspension frame is inspired in a hardtail frame: the Amaro Vitti.

I was noticed that the Autocad was not the best program for bicycle designing but I had not to much time to learn how to use a new program and I continued with Autocad.

My next project was a Hardtail 29er carbon frame:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, I hope this post is not just to show my designs but that it becomes a corner where anyone who wants to put their drawings.

I will continue posting my other designs.

Greetings to all.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well,

I know that my first works don´nt look great, so I tried to improve using Autocad, and doing more detailed projects.

The next projects were a long travel hardtail and a marathon frame (120 mm rear wheel travel).


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

After those renders, I liked something better and I started doing some scenarios and playing with lights but still using Autocad 2010.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

You can see the difference between the two renders of the marathon frame.

First of all, the materials become more realistic and if you watch closer, I had changed the rear triangle of the frame.

I made a mistake with the measurements and I had to modify some parts, and I think that it looks better now.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

The next project was an enduro carbon frame using more complex surfaces in the tube set.

It uses a similar suspension system than they use in the Cube Sting.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

And here, you can see some of my projects together.

- Two fixed with the same frame but different decoration.
- 29er carbon frame.
- Titanium marathon frame (120 mm wheel travel).
- Carbon enduro frame (150 mm wheel travel).


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## KPH (Aug 1, 2008)

Hi there 

Cool work and designs especially the Enduro Carbon suspension frame- I use AutoCAD for work and in my spare time I have tried to draw my Yeti 575 but gave up as I had too much difficulty tryin to get it to look realisitic.

If it is not too difficult, I would be gratefull if you could answer the following:
Q1. How did you do the curves and the changing tube profile on the top tube of the Carbon 29er ? (ie what commands etc)
Q2. What shademode and colours (or renders/materials??) is you use for the Carbon 29er ?
Q3. What computer and specs do you have.

Cheers, and hope you can answer - and by the way, Yes, you spend too much time at your computer !!!

KPH


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

KPH said:


> Hi there
> 
> Cool work and designs especially the Enduro Carbon suspension frame- I use AutoCAD for work and in my spare time I have tried to draw my Yeti 575 but gave up as I had too much difficulty tryin to get it to look realisitic.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I know that Autocad is not the best program to do these designs but I previously knew the program and that was the reason.

Now, the answers to your questions:

A1. What I do is drawing the "path" as a single line (straight or curve) and the, I do the sections, for example, I can start with a circle and finish with a square, and then I use the "rulesurf" to generate the solid.
A2. I can´t help you because at this moment I´m not using Autocad for 3D modelling and I don´t remember everything.
A3. I´m using a HP g62 (intel i3, 4 Gb Ram...), but for my first designs I used an Acer with an AMD Athlon...

If you need it I can review my Autocad files to tell you the setup of some projects.

Greetings.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

The last project I did using Autocad was a fixie bicycle.

In this project I worked slowly doing more details and I think that the result is good.

After that, I started using a new program, but this is another story, hahaha.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

After this project, I had a problem with my computer and I had to stop my learning process for a few weeks until I bought a new computer.

Due to my studies, I needed another laptop and I chose a 15,4 " LED screen HP, which is powerfull enough for me and not very expensive.

When I started to install my programs, I thought that it could be nice if I could learn how to use a better 3d design program.

And I got two of them: Solidworks and Rhinoceros.

I needed Solidworks for my graduation project in The Netherlands, but I had no time to learn how to design a 3D bicycle frame with it so Rhinoceros is the solution: easier, similar to Autocad, good results...

And I started doing my virtual machineshop.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

I have to say that the computer and the sound system are not my work, I have downloaded them from this interesting site:

http://www.flyingarchitecture.com/


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## Pimpride (Nov 14, 2005)

Good job, computer animation and modeling take a lot of time and artistic talent. Real nice renderings and I like the geometry. Good luck, keep at it and save a portfolio of everything so you have something to show when opportunity knocks...


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Pimpride said:


> Good job, computer animation and modeling take a lot of time and artistic talent. Real nice renderings and I like the geometry. Good luck, keep at it and save a portfolio of everything so you have something to show when opportunity knocks...


Thank you.

I´m finishing my studies in electronic engineering but I would like also working with 3D modelling, of course with bicycles.

Greetings from Spain.


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## snowman748 (Nov 29, 2010)

hey a program you might like to use is Inventor 2010. its made by autodesk (same people that make autocad) i think you might find it easier to work with. i've used alot of drafting programs. (i'm in school to be a draftsman) anything from AutoCAD 2D 2010, AutoCAD 3D 2010, Inventor 2010, 3ds Max, Revit Architecture 2010, Civil 3D 2010, AutoCAD Architecture 2010 and 2007or 08. and outta all those programs i think you'll like Inventor the most. i haven't taken solidworks yet but i'm taking it next semester. also a program you might like is Google Sketchup. its free from google and really easy to use. it also lets you bring AutoCAD drawings into it so it might be a quicker and easier way to make a showroom for your bikes.


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## bobbotron (Nov 28, 2007)

Those are really cool, is it hard to model the threads on the fixie cog?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

snowman748 said:


> hey a program you might like to use is Inventor 2010. its made by autodesk (same people that make autocad) i think you might find it easier to work with. i've used alot of drafting programs. (i'm in school to be a draftsman) anything from AutoCAD 2D 2010, AutoCAD 3D 2010, Inventor 2010, 3ds Max, Revit Architecture 2010, Civil 3D 2010, AutoCAD Architecture 2010 and 2007or 08. and outta all those programs i think you'll like Inventor the most. i haven't taken solidworks yet but i'm taking it next semester. also a program you might like is Google Sketchup. its free from google and really easy to use. it also lets you bring AutoCAD drawings into it so it might be a quicker and easier way to make a showroom for your bikes.


Hey, thank you for the message.

I haven´t tried the Inventor, but I would like to do it, maybe next month or so I could install it and give it a try.

For the moment, I´m happy with Rhinoceros and I want to learn more about the Solid Works.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

bobbotron said:


> Those are really cool, is it hard to model the threads on the fixie cog?


It´s quite simple, but you have to know how to do it.

It´s an helicoil with some thickness, and you only need to substract it from the hub.

Greetings.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, as I told you, I started using Rhinoceros, and my first project was an urban bicycle.

This is the frame without the dropouts.


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## Live Wire (Aug 27, 2007)

You're making some great looking renditions of frames, but I have to ask, what's the point? Just to play with the program or are you planning on building some of these?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Live Wire said:


> You're making some great looking renditions of frames, but I have to ask, what's the point? Just to play with the program or are you planning on building some of these?


Well, at first, it was only for fun, because I like drawing and I like bikes, so I started doing frames with Autocad, but know, I´m collaborating with a frame builder from my place to get some renders of the frames before welding them in order to show to the customers what they are paying for.

I would like to design my own frame, and know, I have the chance to do it, but I have to pay this guy for it. The good thing is that I will get a good price.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

In this project, I started doing some components separately from the main project, so I can use them in other bicycles.

For example, here you hace a stem and a rear hub (not finished).


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

And here, you can see the (almost but never) finished bicycle.


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

Nice work! I don't care if there's a point or not. The point is you're doing what you enjoy.

If you set up the drawing, you could offer your service to builders. Customers go crazy over digital renderings, and builders can use the raw data for the construction...


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

D.F.L. said:


> Nice work! I don't care if there's a point or not. The point is you're doing what you enjoy.
> 
> If you set up the drawing, you could offer your service to builders. Customers go crazy over digital renderings, and builders can use the raw data for the construction...


Thanks.

You are right. I think that if a framebuilder can show to the customer the final product is a good point and maybe he can increase the sales.

Let´s see what happen.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

For one of my last jobs I started doing the hubs, and I think that tehy are looking good.

I have to finish them, by the way.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

This is a handlebar for a 29er that I designed as a request from a biker from foromtb.com (Spanish bicycle forum).


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Good morning, this is the frame where I´m going to put the blue hubs. I´ve changed a little bit the top tube.


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## RheXtian (Sep 15, 2010)

your talent is so amazing, i wish i can do something like that..
anyway, does Rhinoceros work on windows 7?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

RheXtian said:


> your talent is so amazing, i wish i can do something like that..
> anyway, does Rhinoceros work on windows 7?


Yes, of course it works.

Actually, I´m using the program on windows 7, and I had no problems.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Now, the second part of the frame, with the rear end and the fork. And also with the new top tube.

I hope you like it. Guess what kind of bicycle it is going to be?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

This is the state of the bicycle today. No more mistery.

I have to change the stem, that is from the previous project, and I have to do the drive train and the brakes.

I also have to do a new render with the Paragon sliding dropouts, but I´m waiting till I finish something else.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, I´m going to explain this project.

The idea came from a spanish guy in foromtb.com and I made it "real".

It is based on the Surly Pugsley but with a different frame and the idea is to ride with the Rohloff, and if there is a problem with the hub, the wheels can be interchanged and the rider can use as a SS with the SS Chris King hub.

I made the handlebar copying the Jeff Jones H-Bar and the saddle is a "present" from another guy in the foromtb.com.

I had to make the wheels in that way because if I want to do a real one my computer is not able to render.

My idea is to make front and rear racks, lights and fenders mounts.

And the different between this and the pugsley is that the rear end has not offset because with these hubs and the 100 mm BB Shell I got a correct chain line.

I hope you like it.

Greetings.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, today I´m starting to show you my most complete project.

Step by step.

First, the tube set. It is a Columbus Spirit set.


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

I enjoy your enthusiasm......keep it up. :thumbsup:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

I´m going to give you another hint:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Next step: the main triangle.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

And now, the complete frame but without the dropouts.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Good morning. At least, here in Holland, but only for the time not for the weather.

Starting with the wheels.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

The complete wheelset.


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## RheXtian (Sep 15, 2010)

sir can you link me where can i download rhinoceros 3d, i can't seem to find it..


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Painted frame and decorated lugs:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

I know it´s not normal, but here you have a render of the finished frame (dropouts included) without paint. You can also watch the seatpost and the stem.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

More components arriving:


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## ironman13 (Aug 3, 2009)

el puto amo si señor


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

ironman13 said:


> el puto amo si señor


In English, please. Hahahaha.

Thanks, compi!!!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Crankset and handlebar installed. First layer of painting.

I´m open to suggestions about the painting colour and decoration.

Regards.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Latest advancement for today. It has the wheels in their place.

I´m still waiting for suggestions for the paint colour and decoration.

Regards.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Any suggestion for the paint?

I have a few ideas about it: clear blue and pearl white DT and ST pannels.

But I think that maybe I could also chrome the SS and CS.

What do you think?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Hey, is someone in there?

From tomorrow to thursday I´m going to be quite busy, so you have time to suggest the paint scheme for the bicycle.


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## merk (Jan 12, 2004)

Since its virtual, why not do something wild like a denim paint job. Shoot, you could do a dozen different paint schemes and not loose any investment. How about Burberry? Why not challenge yourself.


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## indianadave (Apr 27, 2010)

Nice work. I've been using CAD for 15+ years, but am just ow trying to model a bike. I've started with the wheel. Working on how to copy the spokes around in the 3X interlocking pattern.
I've used Cadkey, Solidworks, Pro-E and Autocad.
I think Solidworks is the easiest for this type of stuff.
Keep working at it.
I think a Khaki paintjob with the chrome would look great!


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## onlycrimson (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm just starting on Autocad. Your drawings are awesome! Hopefully I'll get the hang of it.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Ok, as request, I´m going to put some different paint scheme during this week and then you can vote which you prefer.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

indianadave said:


> Nice work. I've been using CAD for 15+ years, but am just ow trying to model a bike. I've started with the wheel. Working on how to copy the spokes around in the 3X interlocking pattern.
> I've used Cadkey, Solidworks, Pro-E and Autocad.
> I think Solidworks is the easiest for this type of stuff.
> Keep working at it.
> I think a Khaki paintjob with the chrome would look great!


The problem with the spokes is that you have to do 4 different pattern for each wheel, or at least 2, doing a mirror for the other side of the wheel. You need to do it twice, because the spokes are inner and outer if we talk about the hub flange. I don´t know if you understood this, hahahaha, is quite difficult to explain in English.

By the way, I´m using Rhinoceros and is easier than Solidworks.

Regards.


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## KPH (Aug 1, 2008)

What about the paint schemes used by Klien - the paint seemed to fade into different colours without an obvious transition - the best I have seen ?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

KPH said:


> What about the paint schemes used by Klien - the paint seemed to fade into different colours without an obvious transition - the best I have seen ?


That might be difficult but I could try.

Give me some time to prepare the paint scheme.

This is an opportunity for someone who is going to paint his classic bicycle but is not sure of the result.


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## Pittzer (Apr 30, 2009)

charlichin said:


> Any suggestion for the paint?
> 
> I have a few ideas about it: clear blue and pearl white DT and ST pannels.
> 
> ...


I don't know, but I love that ***** too.

Nice work!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Maybe, tomorrow in the morning I could have time to do some different paint schemes.

Stay tuned.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, as I see, the second page of this thread is empty of photos or renders, so I´m going to show how I would like to decorate the bicycle.
You also can see the complete drivetrain and everything finished.

I hope you like this as much as I do.

Greetings from Delft, but soon from Spain.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Any comment or constructive criticism?


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## onlycrimson (Nov 11, 2008)

I think the colors look great. Is it just me or do the chainstays look too fat?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

onlycrimson said:


> I think the colors look great. Is it just me or do the chainstays look too fat?


The chainstays are exactly like it appear in the Columbus catalogue, so the size is real and commercial.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, trying new paint scheme and new light scenario.

What do you think about it?


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## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Great job!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

indian fire trail said:


> Great job!


Thanks, tocayo!


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## indianadave (Apr 27, 2010)

Looks great! This kinda motivated me to play around with modeling a bike in Pro-E. Got a wheel/tire modeled so far. I'm doing a mountain bike though, and have tried a couple ways of adding knobbies to the tires... None of which have been satisfactory yet.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

indianadave said:


> Looks great! This kinda motivated me to play around with modeling a bike in Pro-E. Got a wheel/tire modeled so far. I'm doing a mountain bike though, and have tried a couple ways of adding knobbies to the tires... None of which have been satisfactory yet.


Come on. Let´s see some examples of your work.


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## indianadave (Apr 27, 2010)

Nothing worth posting yet... Soon though.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

indianadave said:


> Nothing worth posting yet... Soon though.


I hope so.


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

This has been a real nice thread......so here's my "contribuition". My bike design method uses a different kind of "software"......I call it BAD (brain aided design), we all have it installed and can all relate. :thumbsup: Notice how it starts as an idea and finishes with a ride, crazy how the finished product _translates_ from the idea.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks for your contribution, Smokebikes and for sharing your BAD, hahaha; but since this thread is about 3D design it would be nice if we only post 3D computer designs or tips about this topic. I hope you don´t missunderstand my words. 

Your design, is it a 04er? Haha. Nice job.


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

charlichin said:


> Thanks for your contribution, Smokebikes and for sharing your BAD, hahaha; but since this thread is about 3D design it would be nice if we only post 3D computer designs or tips about this topic. I hope you don´t missunderstand my words.
> 
> Your design, is it a 04er? Haha. Nice job.


Dat's cool........I hear ya! Thanks...........it is an "04er" for my kid.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

That 24/20 looks fun. How long is the TT and how does it ride?


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## indrek (Feb 16, 2004)

Excellent job Charlichin. Check out http://grabcad.com/library, you might find some useful bicycle related models like that if you search for "bicycle":











Go upload your models as well I'm hosting all my bike related stuff there....


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks for the link and sorry for dissapearing. I´m at home during Christmas and my parents have not internet.

If the full suspension frame is yours, congrats, nice job.

Merry Christmas for everybody.


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## blackgt (May 27, 2010)

Incredible detail! 

Thanks for sharing.


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## monkei (May 1, 2007)

Wow. Impressive renderings! I'm a Solidworks guy myself. Love the fat tire / rohloff design! I tried to reverse engineer/model my hardtail a long time ago....
Right now I'm workin' on simple stuff, like QR seatpost clamps.


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## verticult (Jan 18, 2005)

How I would love to fabricate some of these designs. The green bike early in the thread would be an amazing project. Great thread.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

verticult said:


> How I would love to fabricate some of these designs. The green bike early in the thread would be an amazing project. Great thread.


Thanks.

Happy new year to everyone.


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

verticult said:


> How I would love to fabricate some of these designs. The green bike early in the thread would be an amazing project. Great thread.


I like the purple one...........charlichin, keep em comin! :thumbsup:


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Wow, that's the coolest stuff I've ever seen!


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## ErikHo (Jun 27, 2008)

Good skill there!


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

This project started out as I was exploring a chromo mini-DH frame, 7" X 7". The guy I am collaborating with has been working with carbon fiber for years. He brought in a colleague with vast carbon fiber experience. The next thing I know, well here's proto #3.

This will be refined. Pivot placement is pretty dialed for my style. 2.5 : 1 leverage. Chain growth about .75". 

Will be constructing a chromo frame with same pivot/linkage specs. FEA on proto #1 got the wheels spinning to use an aluminum rear as a way to minimize weight and material and maximize strength. Throw in a few beers and straight clean steel tubing front triangle turned into sweeping CF.

We'll see how this turns out. I only have a few hours experience with SolidWorks, and it shows. No offense to all of you real CAD designers. If you could see my pencil and paper original sketch of a straight forward steel triangle frame next to this model you would probably say, as I do, "How did you get this from that?" Happy New Year everyone!


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## jackspade (Jul 23, 2010)

Just wanna share mine.

I am too lazy to make the chain.


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## SweetDoug (Jan 1, 2011)

*Mac User-Needs Drawing Prog Recommendations*

I'm a very experienced mac guy, with a good graphics background. Haven't done it in years though.

Did the whole Illustrator, Quark, Photoshop thing for layout and ads. Some drawing, photo retouching, and a little bit of my own stuff with Adobe Dimensions 3.0 for line art.

I'm wanting to design a off road vehicle for riding on with a kiteboard and am wondering if you can suggest some apps that I could use to do this?

Now, I don't want to have reinvent the wheel. I like the looks of what you guys have done, and I envison this for more than just a pretty picture, such as using AutoCad to actually produce the project. I have no idea what I'm talking about...

Anyway, Google Sketch, AutoCad, other? Learning curve?

Have at'er!

Thanks,

SweetDoug


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Nice projects the MiniDH and the folding chainless bike.

And for you, SweetDoug, I think that the easiest program for 3D modelling is Rhinoceros and you get very good looking renders, but Autocad is more professional for industrial design and not so difficult than Solidworks, which is the best program for the Industry.

I´m working in a new project but for the moment it´s only in my mind and in a few paper sketches.

And I´m also thinking in doing again my earlier designs and getting better results.


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## SweetDoug (Jan 1, 2011)

*No Mac Rhinos*

Just checked and it's still a better for the Mac. I'll probably try sketchup or cad.

SD


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi to everybody.

These days, I was working in my new 3D design project, and it is almost finished, but until the "client" gives me the OK, I cannot show it to you.

It´s going to be my first 3D modelling to reality.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Brilliant stuff!


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## margrate (Feb 20, 2011)

Hello,
I wanna make a bicycle i draw many designs but i hav no idea ab its geometry i need a good looking good performance giving rider some thing like concept on 3d design.

Thanks
__________
wallpaper, paint


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

margrate said:


> Hello,
> I wanna make a bicycle i draw many designs but i hav no idea ab its geometry i need a good looking good performance giving rider some thing like concept on 3d design.
> 
> Thanks
> ...


Sorry, but I don´t understand exactly what you need, can you explain it?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi again,

I´m starting two new projects while I´m finishing another one.

I´m waiting for your constructive critiques.

Kind regards,

Charlie War.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Almost finished:

Carbon Pista Frame with Lugs.


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

Thanks for all this Charlie, it's really neat to see. I don't understand the computer in the same way that you do but I can see that its an amzing tool for someone with your imagination. I hope you continue to post.
jake


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

j-ro said:


> Thanks for all this Charlie, it's really neat to see. I don't understand the computer in the same way that you do but I can see that its an amzing tool for someone with your imagination. I hope you continue to post.
> jake


You are welcome, hahaha.

Thanks for the compliment.

I don´t know how you understand your computer, but for me, in this case is like a paper and pen 2.0.

It allows me to get some nice pictures of what I have in my brain and I´m very happy with the results.

I´m finishing a 3D modelling assignment, but as you can see, I´m starting new frames, and thinking in new crazy ideas.

Regards.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Carbon frame v 2.0:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Following advide from a guy in foromtb.com, I have modified the TT and lowered the light intensity.

I hope you like it.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Handlebar and rear view:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi again,

I´m here again. New decoration and wheels, but I´m going to do they again, because I´m not convinced.


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## monkei (May 1, 2007)

Certainly looks pretty aerodynamic!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

monkei said:


> Certainly looks pretty aerodynamic!


Thanks, it really does.

I´m starting with the componentes for the bicycle.

I´m going to use a profile rim on the front instead the one it has now, so I have designed the front hub. I have to cut the axle, because it´s too long.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Front wheel almost finished:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Mounting the wheels on the bike. The rear one is not finished but I wanted to see how it looks.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, while I finish the current project I´m starting a new one.

This is the Charlie War Low Rider. I hope you like it.

Greetings.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

This is how it´s going :


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## jgerhardt (Aug 31, 2009)

There is a fine line between trying to exhibit your work in such a way that it does not get stolen, and obnoxiously plastering your water mark over your work in an extremely distracting way.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

jgerhardt said:


> There is a fine line between trying to exhibit your work in such a way that it does not get stolen, and obnoxiously plastering your water mark over your work in an extremely distracting way.


Sorry, you´re right. I have to modify the watermark.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, with the modified watermark, here is the last update of the Low Rider:

- Crankset and pedals.
- Front tire with thread and brand (Warstone).
- Brake discs.
- Rim colour.


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Rat Rod style:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

New background and lights.


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## Live Wire (Aug 27, 2007)

Sweet design!
If Jesse Rooke built bicycles, they would look just like that!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Live Wire said:


> Sweet design!
> If Jesse Rooke built bicycles, they would look just like that!


Thanks. Yes, I was inspired by one of the Rooke models.

Here you have new images with the wheels almost finished and the dropouts:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi, this is my new wallpaper:


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## Live Wire (Aug 27, 2007)

What's your thinking about how the rear wheel is driven on the chopper? Friction drive with a rubber snubber hidden in the drum/2nd bottom bracket?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Live Wire said:


> What's your thinking about how the rear wheel is driven on the chopper? Friction drive with a rubber snubber hidden in the drum/2nd bottom bracket?


No, it would be a second belt from the 2nd bottom bracket to the left side of the rear wheel.

Inside the 2nd BB box there is a Rohloff, so it would have two cogs; one in the normal position and the 2nd one instead the brake disc fixed with 4 bolts to the Rohloff cage.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Two more images:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, I have decided to remove the rotors because I think that the best way to stop the bike is mounting a small rotor in the left side of the gear box, next to the cog.

I have also changed the colour of the paint to match better with the style (red wheels and white tire side).

From now, I´m going to start modelling componentes for my next project, so I´m not going to post too much untill I start with the frame.

Greetings from The Netherlands.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi again.

This week I have been working in a new bicycle: a hardtail titanium 29er.

This is how it´s going.

- BB30.
- Black Cat dropouts.
- Chris King hubs (I have to put the rear one in its place).
- ZTR Crest rims.
- Easton EC70 bar and EC90 seatpost.
- Thomson Elite X4 stem.
- White Industries SS chainset.
....

I have to model the brake set (probably Hope) and the chain and pedals.

I hope you like it.


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## monkei (May 1, 2007)

Wow!!!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Monday update.

I have installed the end caps, the headset and the rear hub: it´s a Rolhoff Speedhub, in black, to match with the bike.

I have to model again the rear spokes.

I have changed the headtube and the seatposttube (because it had a colour difference) .

When I have time, I will start with the brakes, but I have decided the model: Hope Tech X2.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

New update.

- Rear spokes.
- Rear disc.
- Rims decoration.
- QR.
- Fork decoration.
- Brake levers.
- Chain.


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## jackspade (Jul 23, 2010)

My main problem is I never know how to animate chain movement.

Do you guys know how?


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

jackspade said:


> My main problem is I never know how to animate chain movement.
> 
> Do you guys know how?


Me neither, but with Rhino it´s impossible.

I think that with inventor it´s possible, but for the moment I´m not going to try it.


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## TimT (Jan 1, 2004)

You need to check the chain lines on the Rohloff and White cranks. The White cranks are very narrow. Pauls would be a better fit IMHO.

Tim


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TimT said:


> You need to check the chain lines on the Rohloff and White cranks. The White cranks are very narrow. Pauls would be a better fit IMHO.
> 
> Tim


Good to know. Thanks. I have to model the Paul crankset, but for the moment, I have almost finished the bike.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

New colour and new fork bridge:


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## TimT (Jan 1, 2004)

Not to nit pick but White cranks are not out board bearing cranks. Also would be nice to see how you worked out the shifting and cable routing of the Speed hub.

Tim


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TimT said:


> Not to nit pick but White cranks are not out board bearing cranks. Also would be nice to see how you worked out the shifting and cable routing of the Speed hub.
> 
> Tim


I know that, but I like the touch of the bearings cups in mango. I have to look for a nice crankset for this kind of BB set.

The shifting is using a Tune Rolf and the cable routing is going to internal through the down tube to the BB and from there, folowing the left chainstay using cable stops designed by me.

It´s going to be a bolt attached to the frame, but the head of the bolt has two cable stops one over the other one, so if you want to use the bicycle as a SS you can remove this cable stops.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, although I have to finish some details, I´m going to leave this project in stand-by.

But first, I have rendered a few images.

Greetings from The Netherlands.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi. As a request from a guy in the foromtb.com, I have changed the decoration of the bicycle, including paintjob and components.

I´m also learning how to model more complex surfaces by doing a new saddle for my fixies.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Second version of the saddle, with a different cover and the provisional rear plate (I have to do it again bigger).


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

New project in process:


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## aintnothang (Mar 31, 2009)

Im diggin your designs.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Paint job and decoration finished. I have also finished the rear wheel.

Greetings from The Netherlands.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Bullhorn...finished:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, today I have modelled the saddle (San Marco Aspide), installed the rear wheel, the handlebar and the saddle. I have to finish the stem, and start with the drive train.

I´m thinking in modifying the rear end to make it thicker and stronger, because compared to the fork, it looks very weak.

For the front wheel, I´m not sure, but I have to decide between a 4 spoke Corima, and Aerospoke or a traditional wheel with the front Chub Hub, and the H Plus Son Eero rim.


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## MrCookie (Apr 24, 2005)

Hmmm, trying to imagine how I would model that bar wrapping. Pretty amazing work.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

MrCookie said:


> Hmmm, trying to imagine how I would model that bar wrapping. Pretty amazing work.


I have tried different things to get the way to do it. It´s pretty easy but you have to follow some steps.

I have finished the front wheel: Chub + HPlusSon, like in the rear wheel, but with 24 spokes in radial configuration instead 32 spokes with 2 crosses.

I have also decorate the saddle a bit more with the name of the model (AspideTT).


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

This is an assignment for a Spanish framebuilder (XCLUSIVE bikes).

I have modelled 4 frames to show to the customers the virtual results of the building.

First of all I wanna show you the Titanium CX Frame:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

CNC dropouts, handjob, headbadge, dropouts shields and cross-bridge (representing the brand), and paragon cable hangers.


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## monkei (May 1, 2007)

LOVE the rear brake barrel mounting!!! That is so cool. How will that be manufactured??


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

monkei said:


> LOVE the rear brake barrel mounting!!! That is so cool. How will that be manufactured??


From a titanium block with a CNC machine, I guess.

The framebuilder is making some prototypes in a 3D printer to check if everything is OK with the parts, and I´m designing some new parts for him.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

By the way, the second frame is a lugged road carbon frame:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi, again. The third frame from Xclusive is a 29er carbon frame.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I haven't really followed this thread much but it is very cool...how many of these designs actually turn into a real bike?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I haven't really followed this thread much but it is very cool...how many of these designs actually turn into a real bike?


Didn't CWD design your brown bike? Lol, just messin' wit Sasquatch! :thumbsup:


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Funny man..


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Funny man..


I try, but usually fail. I'm buyin' you dinner some day for being such a good sport.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I try, but usually fail. I'm buyin' you dinner some day for being such a good sport.


Get me a bag of Jack Link's beef jerky and we'll call it even.

Look at me fall for this stupid sh*t


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

That's hilerious! 

Ok, PM me your addy. 

Click the mountain bike one at the end of the one you posted, it's funny.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> That's hilerious!
> 
> Ok, PM me your addy.
> 
> Click the mountain bike one at the end of the one you posted, it's funny.


Oh man that one's hilarious  I didn't even see it. I remember it on tv though, it was one of the first commercials years ago. And man, I was just kidding. I don't need you to send me anything (I would appreciate a steel 29'er SS 22" frame, though), I enjoy the funny remarks. Check out the thread I started on where people's names come from. You'll learn a bit more about the name :thumbsup:


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Oh man that one's hilarious  I didn't even see it. I remember it on tv though, it was one of the first commercials years ago. And man, I was just kidding. I don't need you to send me anything (I would appreciate a steel 29'er SS 22" frame, though), I enjoy the funny remarks. Check out the thread I started on where people's names come from. You'll learn a bit more about the name :thumbsup:


I didn't know there were so many of those commercials. Yeah I read that thread, pretty funny.

Just so you know, I only give people a hard time that I like, respect, admire or look up to. everyone else, I just tell to eff off.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

That´s a really funny TV add.

BTW, talking about 3D modelling, here you have the fourth frame I have modelled for XCLUSIVE.

It´s a mini-velo for 20" wheels, horizontal dropouts, S&S couplers, gates belt ready, integrated seat clamp...

I think it could be a nice city bicycle for people who live in small flats or for travelling with it in the luggage...

Greetings from Spain.


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## Live Wire (Aug 27, 2007)

Your designs look great, I like these last few paint schemes. Don't know if it matters, but you might want to offset the rear drops towards the inside for a more realistic rendering.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Live Wire said:


> Your designs look great, I like these last few paint schemes. Don't know if it matters, but you might want to offset the rear drops towards the inside for a more realistic rendering.


Sorry but I don´t understand exactly what you mean, can you explain it?

Thanks.


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## Live Wire (Aug 27, 2007)

charlichin said:


> Sorry but I don´t understand exactly what you mean, can you explain it?
> 
> Thanks.


You bet.
The last few frames you posted have the dropouts offset to the outside of the chain/seatstays. Check out pics of bikes with drops that attach with a "hood" like those, the dropouts are all offset to the inside, that way they avoid possible chain/cog interference.
It's a minor point for your pics I suppose, I don't know how realistic they are supposed to be or if these are all just concepts that will never actually be built.
Either way, the pics are great....I've been thinking of adapting the green mtb on the first page to work in steel :thumbsup:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Live Wire said:


> You bet.
> The last few frames you posted have the dropouts offset to the outside of the chain/seatstays. Check out pics of bikes with drops that attach with a "hood" like those, the dropouts are all offset to the inside, that way they avoid possible chain/cog interference.
> It's a minor point for your pics I suppose, I don't know how realistic they are supposed to be or if these are all just concepts that will never actually be built.
> Either way, the pics are great....I've been thinking of adapting the green mtb on the first page to work in steel :thumbsup:


Ok, I know what you mean, but the last 4 frames I´ve posted were an assignment from a framebuilder, here in Galicia.

The design of the dropouts is a brand characteristic so it´s his design. I guess he has studied the interference with chain and cogs.

Actually, he made some 3D prints to be sure of that.

Thank you anyway for the advice.

Kind regards.


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## jetjaguar (Apr 19, 2011)

some great models and renders on this thread. My suggestion for modeling application is PowerNurbs plugin for 3D Max


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## Snow leopard (Jan 6, 2011)

You make visually really good designs! How much do you think about frame geometry, measurements of the parts, aerodynamics, comfort and other issues, or do you just remodel existing bikes with your own visual ideas and part combinations?

In other words, do you do any material science, considering strength and durability of parts? Or is just visualisation? 

Anyway, please continue posting your designs! Always nice to see them.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Snow leopard said:


> You make visually really good designs! How much do you think about frame geometry, measurements of the parts, aerodynamics, comfort and other issues, or do you just remodel existing bikes with your own visual ideas and part combinations?
> 
> In other words, do you do any material science, considering strength and durability of parts? Or is just visualisation?
> 
> Anyway, please continue posting your designs! Always nice to see them.


First of all, thank you for your words! It´s nice to receive support from you, guys.

Normally, I´m using geometries and measurements from existing bikes, but modifying some of them.
Regarding the mechanichal design, I´m trying to improve my skills about that, and I´m trying to learn how to use Linkage to model an efficient FS frame.

But for the moment, I´m finishing my studies and I have no time to start any project.

I´ll let you know when I start a new frame.

Kind regards.


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## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

Charlichin - These are amazing designs and renderings! Thanks for sharing.
I'm a long time Rhino 3D user...are you using T-Splines for some of these organic details, or just nurbs?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

DirtDiggler said:


> Charlichin - These are amazing designs and renderings! Thanks for sharing.
> I'm a long time Rhino 3D user...are you using T-Splines for some of these organic details, or just nurbs?


Thanks, Dirt.

I ´ve just used NURBS, but lately I´ve installed T´Splines, and I´m playing with it, so my next frame is going to be more organic.

Kind regards,

Charlie War.


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## 666Shifty (Jun 27, 2007)

Nice bikes. Post more if u have some. Im in process of making 3d model of DH bike, maybe i will post it here in next weeks...


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

666Shifty said:


> Nice bikes. Post more if u have some. Im in process of making 3d model of DH bike, maybe i will post it here in next weeks...


Thanks for refloat the thread.

I´ve been very busy the last months with exams and reports...but I´m starting with Rhino again.

I have to practice to recover my skills, so for the moment I´m modelling anoooother steel track bike.

The frame is almost finished and I think that it´s going to be in this colour with black components (seatpost, stem, bars...).

What do you think?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Here is a render of the dropouts. You can see the hole for a tensioning bolt; something very useful, at least, for me.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

New paintjob for the fixie frame, and the cut in the right seatstay finished.

I´m also playing with a plugin for the Rhino to build organic shapes (such as carbon frames...), and here you can see a sample.


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## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

Pro-E??? 
I think his models are made with Rhino, dude. Rhino is a Nurbs modeler and doesn't translate well to PRO-E. All the parts would have to be separate and you would have to rebuild somehow in an assembly. Good luck with finding the CAD work......I remember school...good ole times ; )


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

DirtDiggler said:


> Pro-E???
> I think his models are made with Rhino, dude. Rhino is a Nurbs modeler and doesn't translate well to PRO-E. All the parts would have to be separate and you would have to rebuild somehow in an assembly. Good luck with finding the CAD work......I remember school...good ole times ; )


I´m sorry, but he is right.

I would like to help you somehow, so please, let me know...


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

I´m starting again with Rhino after some weeks doing nothing, so this is my new project. I hope to finish it.

Columbus steel Lo Pro:


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

The Lo Pro is almost finished.

I´ve changed the seatstays design and the frame colour.

I´m going to replace the rear hub with a Phil Wood, because the Chub is a bit chunky for this kind of frame.

The rims are Velocity Aerohead (650 front, 700 rear).

Nitto RB021 with Nitto stem and Campy Record seatpost.

San Marco Rolls.

SG75....

I hope you like it.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

(Almost) finished!!!

New rear hub, new handlebar (Nitto B211AA), CB Eggbeater 11 pedals...


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Another view and a detailed pic of the crankset and pedals:


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Gee;

That is most impressive, and I am jealous. I would love to be able to do that, just for my own pleasure if for no other reason. Still, it is at least partially pleasing to look at yours!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Gee;
> 
> That is most impressive, and I am jealous. I would love to be able to do that, just for my own pleasure if for no other reason. Still, it is at least partially pleasing to look at yours!


Thanks, mate!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

New, and more classic decoration.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Playing with lights, material...

I have also modelled a Brooks Swallow (not finished yet) that fits better with the rest of the bicycle. New colour too.


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## [email protected] (Dec 3, 2008)

What software do you use for the rendering? I'm using Keyshot Pro, turns out with incredibly realistic renderings


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

I´m using Vray for Rhino, but if I could get better results with other sw, it would be great.

Maybe I could use an external program importing the Rhino model.

Any suggestions on how to do this? And what is the best rendering sw?


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

First rendering using a HDRI file applied to an spherical surface around the scenario.

I have to try some mods to fix the strange reflections on the white background.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hmmm...

I'm not quite sure what it is, but that one looks virtually like a photograph. More so than the others. Maybe it is the background? It may break the tension of a static background and look more alive, less canned. Just not sure, but it was an immediate impression. I don't particularly like the front tire breaking the border, at least in that fashion, but the overall piece is REALLY good.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I'm not quite sure what it is, but that one looks virtually like a photograph. More so than the others. Maybe it is the background? It may break the tension of a static background and look more alive, less canned. Just not sure, but it was an immediate impression. I don't particularly like the front tire breaking the border, at least in that fashion, but the overall piece is REALLY good.


Thanks, mate. I´m really happy with my progress using HDRI.

I´m thinking about using a different background, maybe a wall or something like that...

Let´s see waht happen.

Stay tunned...

Charlie War.


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## [email protected] (Dec 3, 2008)

charlichin said:


> I´m using Vray for Rhino, but if I could get better results with other sw, it would be great.
> 
> Maybe I could use an external program importing the Rhino model.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to do this? And what is the best rendering sw?


I'm not that experienced with rendering software only having used Keyshot 2 Pro myself, but it is extremely simple to use, everyone I know who has tried it has stuck with it. Rendering time's are quick, materials look realistic and everything is as straight-forward as possible. 
Here's a review 
KeyShot 2.0. All the Raw, Realtime Render Speed You Can Squeeze [Review] - SolidSmack.com - SolidSmack.com

Quality wise, the best i've seen is Bunkspeed Shot- although I use Creo/Pro Engineer which is not compatible with bunkspeed, so cant comment of its interface as I have never used it.

Bunkspeed Steps it Up a Notch with Shot Pro [Review] - SolidSmack.com - SolidSmack.com


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not that experienced with rendering software only having used Keyshot 2 Pro myself, but it is extremely simple to use, everyone I know who has tried it has stuck with it. Rendering time's are quick, materials look realistic and everything is as straight-forward as possible.
> Here's a review
> KeyShot 2.0. All the Raw, Realtime Render Speed You Can Squeeze [Review] - SolidSmack.com - SolidSmack.com
> 
> ...


Keyshot looks really good. I should try it.

Meanwhile, here you have a new rendering. Same model, same Vray configuration, same lights but different background.

I hope you like it.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

New project. Just starting out.


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## ade ward (Jun 23, 2009)

Is that a folding bike? I have worked on the first two prototypes to what eventually became the mezzo range of bikes possible the most difficult bike to design is a folder

Just noticed is that a gboxx mount?


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

ade ward said:


> Is that a folding bike? I have worked on the first two prototypes to what eventually became the mezzo range of bikes possible the most difficult bike to design is a folder
> 
> Just noticed is that a gboxx mount?


I agree. You have to check eveything, opened and folded, and check it again.

But I think it´s going to be a nice bike.

And, not, it´s not a Gboxx mount, but something similar.

Here you have the rear triangle, but it´s no finished yet.


----------



## ade ward (Jun 23, 2009)

Pinion?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

ade ward said:


> Pinion?


Bingo!


----------



## ade ward (Jun 23, 2009)

I was interested in this but they were not forthcoming with any more details than on the website,


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

ade ward said:


> I was interested in this but they were not forthcoming with any more details than on the website,


You are right. I was lloking for some extra info, and it´s almost impossible.

Here you have a new pic, with wheels, saddle and bars.


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, as ade ward advised me, a folding bike is one of the most difficult things to design in this field.

So, while I figure out how to solve the interference between frame and subframe the Pinion Brompton is in the fridge. This is my last model.

I used some things from the other Brompton, but the rear end is completely new, attached to the frame from the inside, so it´s narrower than the original B one.

It´s for 120 mm rear hub, and, yes, it´s a fixed gear, but I´m thinking in a front brake.


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, since the fixed gear Brompton is almost finished, I´m starting a new project.

NAHBS 2012 was very inspiring for me, so here you have a teaser:


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

Charlichin -

Great job on the designs and 3D work! I love looking at what you create. Are you and engineer or an industrial designer?

For a render engine I would give 'Flamingo NXT' a shot: Download Current Beta - Flamingo nXt
It's FREE right now and the results are on par with some of the best renderer's. It also integrates directly into Rhino. I've used Keyshot (which is great) and some others but prefer Flamingo NXT. If you used the old Flamingo(which was terrible) this is nothing like it. They re-coded it from the ground up.


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks for the hint. I will give it a try.

Meanwhile...


----------



## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

You got it, buddy.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

I´m playing right now with Flamingo, but I have to learn how to use it properly.

For the moment, I´m still with VRay:


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

While I finish the cargo trike, I´m starting a new project.

New wheels for a new frame.

Stay tuned.


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, since I had a problem with the Rhino file, I had to model the wheels again.

I also lost the frame I had modelled for using these wheels (you can see the picture and give your opinion on that).


----------



## ironman13 (Aug 3, 2009)

te superas dia a dia compañero


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

ironman13 said:


> te superas dia a dia compañero


Thanks, dude!

I´m trying to improve every day.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi, I have almost finished the new frame and fork, so the next step is modelling the componentes.

If you hace any suggestion about the frame or the componets...

I´m also posting a side view image to show you the tight geometry of the frame.

I hope you like it.

Cheers!!!


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

I´m starting now with the components, but I think I´m going to model the 3T Scatto, because this Sphinx is a bit too weird.


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

3T Scatto ready!


----------



## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Almost finished.

I´m going to model a new saddle because the saddles I already have don´t fit this bike.

And the components from 3T have their new decoration.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey;

More nice stuff! I'm curious if you have made a conscious decision to go for a low gloss, "soft light" look, as opposed to a dripping, glossy, wet look, or is that a function of the particular software?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Hey;
> 
> More nice stuff! I'm curious if you have made a conscious decision to go for a low gloss, "soft light" look, as opposed to a dripping, glossy, wet look, or is that a function of the particular software?


I could go for a more glossy look, but I´m using the same "material" in other components, and due to my laptop I would like to keep low the number of materials in the scene.


----------



## jucasan (Mar 18, 2012)

*Import/export*



snowman748 said:


> hey a program you might like to use is Inventor 2010. its made by autodesk (same people that make autocad) i think you might find it easier to work with. i've used alot of drafting programs. (i'm in school to be a draftsman) anything from AutoCAD 2D 2010, AutoCAD 3D 2010, Inventor 2010, 3ds Max, Revit Architecture 2010, Civil 3D 2010, AutoCAD Architecture 2010 and 2007or 08. and outta all those programs i think you'll like Inventor the most. i haven't taken solidworks yet but i'm taking it next semester. also a program you might like is Google Sketchup. its free from google and really easy to use. it also lets you bring AutoCAD drawings into it so it might be a quicker and easier way to make a showroom for your bikes.


Can you import/export from Inventor to 3D Max and viceversa? I tried to do that from Solidwork to Max but does't looks good at all. W


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, I have just finished the bike.

First, the bike check:

- Frame: Columbus Airplane.
- Fork: ENVE track fork.
- Wheelset: Mavic Ellipse.
- Crankset: Sugino 75.
- BB: Sugino 75.
- Chainring: Sugino Zen 52 T.
- Cog: Euroasia Imports 16T.
- Chain: Izumi.
- Seatpost collar: Thomson.
- Seatpost: 3T Dorico Team.
- Saddle: San Marco Concor Racing.
- Stem: 3T ARX LTD.
- Handlebar: 3T Scatto.
- Pedals: MKS RX1.

Here you have the pictures.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Here is the Red Hook Crit SE:


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

Your solid modeling skills are fantastic! Really great stuff here. You have a great skill.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

golden boy said:


> Your solid modeling skills are fantastic! Really great stuff here. You have a great skill.


I´m glad you like it. Thanks!!!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

While I model a new bicycle, I´m trying something new.

I´m modifying my previous bike so it looks used and abused in the streets.

Here you have the before and the after:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

I have just realized that last time I didn´t upload the images, so there you have them (above).

On the other hand, I modelled a newer version of the Dirty Track with HED wheels.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

And another work in progress:


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## Cracked Headtube (Apr 16, 2006)

Hey Charlie, I posted the Dirty bikes in my local riding forum and they took the bait and think they are real, not just drawing! So, good work! You've fooled some fools with your CAD skills! They were able to notice the lack of valve stems, but they are wondering why "the valve stems were photoshopped out?" 
Great renderings!!!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Cracked Headtube said:


> Hey Charlie, I posted the Dirty bikes in my local riding forum and they took the bait and think they are real, not just drawing! So, good work! You've fooled some fools with your CAD skills! They were able to notice the lack of valve stems, but they are wondering why "the valve stems were photoshopped out?"
> Great renderings!!!


It´s nice and funny at the same time to hear about that.

It means that I´m improving in my modelling skills.

Thanks!!!


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## jackspade (Jul 23, 2010)

Wield modeling I done.

Here's the tutorial:
3D maya wield modeling tutorial - YouTube

BTW if you have photo lighting studio like HDRI just lt me know.

Cheers.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

jackspade said:


> Wield modeling I done.
> 
> Here's the tutorial:
> 3D maya wield modeling tutorial - YouTube
> ...


Nice! I was thinking in doing something like that with Rhino.

I´ll watch the video and adapt it to Rhino.

Cheers!


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Apparently...

... It's not any easier to TIG weld with a mouse or keystroke than it is with a torch!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Trying something different this time:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

rubyluise said:


> I started my own drawing for good designs. I think you all are provide very unique design for the model .But, the most important thing is that how can builders are fulfill our expectations to make such a wonderful model that can attracted by everyone. Can anyone suggest me those ideas that make model more fascinating.


I think the most importan thing in a frame design is the geometry.

You have to decide what use is the bike intended for, and then adjust the geometry to this use.

The material is very important too, depending on the use.

After this, you have to choose between the market options for headtube (traditional, semi, integrated, tappered...), bottom bracket (English, BB30, PF...), dropouts...

And then, you can make the difference putting some personal details in the building and the paintjob.

It´s a very complex and long process, but if you do it well from the beginning, you can get a good design.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Although a friend of mine is going to help me editting the video, this is what I made with Movie Maker.

I hope you like it.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

I´m using different light and camera settings to get more realistic renders. I´ve also modifyed the track bike, with new bars, grips and paintjob.

Cheers.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

This is part of the new project. I´m going to use some components I have already modelled, but I want first to finish the frame with the rear end, shock and transmision. 

Then I will start with the assembly.

I´m also attaching another render of the Green Hornet in a different scenario.

Kind regards,

Charlie War.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Ahhh...

That last one is a real winner. I always enjoy a lot of contrast - created by using light to illustrate dark, and vice-versa - and this one really makes the bike and the very effective new lighting effects pop.

Oddly enough, I think one little detail that would make it look even more realistic... is a simple prop stand!


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## Wilhelm6 (Sep 23, 2005)

charlichin said:


> This is part of the new project. I´m going to use some components I have already modelled, but I want first to finish the frame with the rear end, shock and transmision.
> Then I will start with the assembly.
> I´m also attaching another render of the Green Hornet in a different scenario.
> Kind regards,
> Charlie War.


Most stylish gearbox frame around a PINION P1.18 unit for now!
Yummie ... :thumbsup:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Ahhh...
> 
> That last one is a real winner. I always enjoy a lot of contrast - created by using light to illustrate dark, and vice-versa - and this one really makes the bike and the very effective new lighting effects pop.
> 
> Oddly enough, I think one little detail that would make it look even more realistic... is a simple prop stand!


Thank you! I´m quite happy with this render. I think it looks very realistic.



Wilhelm6 said:


> Most stylish gearbox frame around a PINION P1.18 unit for now!
> Yummie ... :thumbsup:


Thank you! I have a lot of work before finishing it, but so far it looks good.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey;

I think you will find that it is the aspects that I mentioned that make it look that way. Of course, the bike taken by itself is quite nice. However, when the background is flat, diffuse, and lacking visual depth, the subject will as well, as a reflection of that. It is a bit contrary, but the background needs to have some interest in order for the subject to feel real. While your background does not necessarily look specifically like anything in particular, it does provide a tremendous amount of depth and perspective, as well as contrast. That latter word is the most important concept to master in the artistic realm.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Hey;
> 
> I think you will find that it is the aspects that I mentioned that make it look that way. Of course, the bike taken by itself is quite nice. However, when the background is flat, diffuse, and lacking visual depth, the subject will as well, as a reflection of that. It is a bit contrary, but the background needs to have some interest in order for the subject to feel real. While your background does not necessarily look specifically like anything in particular, it does provide a tremendous amount of depth and perspective, as well as contrast. That latter word is the most important concept to master in the artistic realm.


Thank you for your advice but I don´t understand exactly what you mean.

The last render I posted, do you think it´s OK or not?

I think I have a lot to learn about lights and backgrounds in order to get more realistic pics, but since I´m not following any course (neither in the past) I´m using a try/fail system.

I´m reading some info related with rendering, but it´s difficult sometimes to understand everything I read...

Thanks again for your help.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Does anyone know who did this work of art?
http://forums.mtbr.com/mountain-cycle/san-andreas-3-0-solidworks-795755.html


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

charlichin said:


> Thank you for your advice but I don´t understand exactly what you mean. The last render I posted, do you think it´s OK or not?


Yes;

I like it very much. This is just my opinion, but I feel the dark background makes the bright green bike pop extremely well. I personally like dark and dramatic images because of a certain amount of mystery that they create. I also like strong contrast in shapes, and so there must also be light to create that contrast. I think you achieved that very well with this rendering.

Having said that, I also like the Mountain Cycle rendering linked here as well. I'm not sure what aspect makes it look so crisp, since it does not have the same dramatic interplay between light and dark as I have just described. Perhaps it is that the subject itself provides the drama with its lavish design, where a relatively simple design like your road bike does not?

I hope this makes more sense. In the end you will get a lot of different opinions because these things are very subjective.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Does anyone know who did this work of art?
> http://forums.mtbr.com/mountain-cycle/san-andreas-3-0-solidworks-795755.html


Somebody has gone before us. It´s a pity.

But it´s really cool. I like it. And apparently it´s coming from The Netherlands too.



TrailMaker said:


> Yes;
> 
> I like it very much. This is just my opinion, but I feel the dark background makes the bright green bike pop extremely well. I personally like dark and dramatic images because of a certain amount of mystery that they create. I also like strong contrast in shapes, and so there must also be light to create that contrast. I think you achieved that very well with this rendering.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Now it´s much more clear.

P.S.:

I´m not convinced with my last design (the FS frame) and I´m planning to do some modification. Any idea?

I don´t know what to do: either I do it simpler (straight tubes) either I do a hydro-formed aluminium frame.

What do you think?


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

charlichin said:


> P.S.: I´m not convinced with my last design (the FS frame) and I´m planning to do some modification. Any idea? I don´t know what to do: either I do it simpler (straight tubes) either I do a hydro-formed aluminium frame.
> 
> What do you think?


Hey;

Well, for what my opinion is worth, I like the basics. It has a nice symmetry to it. I'm not sure what the round "button" is on the ST brace. Is it supposed to be on that tube, because that's where it looks like it is. The only thing I do not like is the shock mount tabs. They look clunky compared to the flowing lines of the tubes. Some playing around there for a more artistic solution might yield surprising results.

Perhaps playing around with a larger diameter and/or more tapered DT would change the character. The slight angularity of the bends makes me think freeride. Longer radius bends would make me think trail. A bigger DT with even tighter bends would make me think downhill.

Of course, the sky is the limit, and I'm not sure what type of bike you were looking for. I like the basic concept, and see no reason not to push it further along.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Hey;
> 
> Well, for what my opinion is worth, I like the basics. It has a nice symmetry to it. I'm not sure what the round "button" is on the ST brace. Is it supposed to be on that tube, because that's where it looks like it is. The only thing I do not like is the shock mount tabs. They look clunky compared to the flowing lines of the tubes. Some playing around there for a more artistic solution might yield surprising results.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your comments.

I know the pic I´ve posted gives no many clues about the result I´d like to get, so let me explain:

The idea is a 29er trail bike with 130-140 mm of rear travel and a 140 mm fork travel, using the Pinion cage as the core of the frame.

The geometry is decided, but I think I can improve the suspension system and the tubing to get a more stylish frame.

When I have time I´m going to design a new prototype with some ideas I have.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, here you have the new version of the frame. Softer bends and new suspension design.

It has 130 mm rear travel.

I think it´s much better now, and it was just changing two tubes and the ST brace.

What do you think?


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Well;

I like them both. It depends on what look you are trying for. The first one is techy, edgy, more daring, like a freeride or DH bike. The latter is softer, less aggressive, more artsy. I like the interesting suspension mounts on the new one, but I dislike the straight ST brace. It needs some gentle curvature to match the flow of the other tubes to my eye. The old one would look really cool with some really long travel suspension and perhaps even an E-stay rear end. The new one would look nice with a continuation of the curved theme in the rear triangle.

The sky is the limit.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks, TrailMaker for the comments, they are very useful. 

Just to check the frame lines I´ve modelled a provisional rear end (simple tubes) and I think it´s quite fluid.

Comments???


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Very handsome;

A normal inclination with stylish curved front tubes is to carry that rearward, but it's not
easy to match that curvature in the rear. You have only two choices to make it look good. 
You either match the arc exactly, or you do something completely different and don't try to 
follow the same lines at all. If you try and match the arc of front tubes in your seat stays 
and miss even by a little bit, it LOOKS like you missed. This is worse than if you do 
something totally different. The compound curvature of stays makes that continuation very 
difficult to achieve.










The pic above shows a broken girls Columbia cruiser frame I salvaged and modified. You 
can see that I was able to match the curvature of the top tube very successfully to the rear 
stays. It looks like it was always that way! Interestingly, trying to use the same arc for the 
lower top tube was a total failure. It needed more arc to sit parallel to the top tube at the 
seat tube junction, but diverge off to a far different location. I spent a fair bit of time
twiddling with this design on the computer, even being a pretty simple project. These are 
the little discoveries that are counter intuitive and interesting, and make design such a 
challenge.

You have taken the angle of the end of the TT at the ST junction and matched & continued 
it very well with a straight SS. It's a very appealing look. I would not give up on the previous 
design though. It has potential of a completely different style.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Actually the seatstays have a very soft curve to match the TT but the radius is quite bigger than there, because, as you said in your comment, with the "s" shape of the SS, it could be difficult to do it perfect and it would just look fine in a perfect side view.

I´m going to leave the previous design in the "fridge" for a long travel 29er. But after this one, I have a couple of designs in the queue.

Thanks again!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

While I finish the rear end, here you have the main frame already painted.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Try something;

Put a radius on the seat tube brace, similar to the radius of the top tube. however, instead of doing the expected, try radiusing it UPWARD, not downward.

Always try the unexpected. Sometimes, it works!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Try something;
> 
> Put a radius on the seat tube brace, similar to the radius of the top tube. however, instead of doing the expected, try radiusing it UPWARD, not downward.
> 
> Always try the unexpected. Sometimes, it works!


It does have radius, but this is quite big, so maybe I could try with a smaller one.

Thanks again for the inputs.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

It´s been a while since I don´t model any bike (the FS frame is in standby), but I´m starting over.

For the moment, I have half of a light track wheelset. The front wheel:

- Mack Superlight Track hub.
- Enve 1.25 tubular carbon rim.
- Sapim Aero spokes.

It weights around 412 grams.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Wheelset almost finished. Now the crankset...

They (would) weight around 2 lbs (912 grams), without tubulars and cogs. So in the light side for a track wheelset.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey;

That stuff is amazing. The hubs look like photos. The only thing that doesn't quite work in the objects is the "straight lines" on the rim edge between spokes in some areas. I have no idea whether the operator can change that, or if it is just a limitation of the software. I do know I wish I could do that. Really impressive.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Hey;
> 
> That stuff is amazing. The hubs look like photos. The only thing that doesn't quite work in the objects is the "straight lines" on the rim edge between spokes in some areas. I have no idea whether the operator can change that, or if it is just a limitation of the software. I do know I wish I could do that. Really impressive.


Thanks!

Those "straight lines" sometimes appear when I model the rims, and it´s quite annoying.

I don´t know what the problem is, but I guess it´s related with the SW and my laptop.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

The problem with the segmented rim is already solved. It was a Rhino setting.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Funny how fixing the rim caused a flat. 

Glad I could help with your Rhino problem.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Funny how fixing the rim caused a flat.
> 
> Glad I could help with your Rhino problem.


Indeed!!! Hahahaha.

Thanks!


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

*My first frame designed in SolidWorks*

Somebody's gotta give Charlie a run for his money. 

Here's my first personal project since buying SolidWorks 2012 this summer. It's basically version two of the 650b frame I built at UBI earlier this year. I've learned a ton about the software through the process of completing this frame design. I'm prepping myself for a return to a career in product design and development with an emphasis on solid modeling.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

That frame looks great! Very solid!

Maybe you can shorten a bit the chainstays...

Are you going to model the whole bike?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Starting with the frame...


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Frame: Columbus Spirit with carbon seattube.

Despite the real angle of the seattube, the virtual one is 74, because it joints to the DT instead the BB.

With this configuration, the frame has 370 chainstays (pretty short...).

The weight should be around 1200 grams.


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

charlichin said:


> That frame looks great! Very solid!
> 
> Maybe you can shorten a bit the chainstays...
> 
> Are you going to model the whole bike?


Thanks, Carlos. The chainstays are 425mm. The frame I built at UBI has 420mm chainstays, and that did not leave enough room for a front derailleur. I figure adding 5mm to the chainstays and using a direct mount front der ought to work with this frame design.

I am working on modeling other bike parts. It would be nice to eventually be able to assemble the complete bike in SolidWorks. Modeling a riser handlebar with bulged clamp area has been a great learning experience. I will share some of these parts here as I model them.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

golden boy said:


> Thanks, Carlos. The chainstays are 425mm. The frame I built at UBI has 420mm chainstays, and that did not leave enough room for a front derailleur. I figure adding 5mm to the chainstays and using a direct mount front der ought to work with this frame design.
> 
> I am working on modeling other bike parts. It would be nice to eventually be able to assemble the complete bike in SolidWorks. Modeling a riser handlebar with bulged clamp area has been a great learning experience. I will share some of these parts here as I model them.


Just after my comment, I thought about de FD and you are right. Anyway, 425 mm is pretty short and those 5 mm extra should not change the behavior of the bike.

I´m looking forward to see those parts.

Regarding my project, here you have the frameset, with the fork from my latest bike.


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## Live Wire (Aug 27, 2007)

That's cool....looks like a Julie!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Live Wire said:


> That's cool....looks like a Julie!


That´s right! I was not thinking in JRD, but since I´m fun of their works... the idea of the ST meeting the DT just came up.

I was fitting the wheels to the frame, and some parts (old and new), with the idea of modelling a 17º stem and maybe doing something new in the drive-train.

Suggestions, comments?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Since the colour design was a bit classy and boring, here you have a more fresh version.

New paintjob and decals, new crankset and stem.

I have to finish the seatpost, and maybe I can model a Rotor oval chainring.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey;

You really have gotten quite good at this. It is only down to tiny details to really portray a super realistic image. Round rims without flat tires even! 

How about paying some attention to the seat? It appears to be polished anodized aluminum with a razor sharp leading edge. It would seem to be more realistic if it had a soft surface look with seamless shadow gradients and soft round edges.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Hey;
> 
> You really have gotten quite good at this. It is only down to tiny details to really portray a super realistic image. Round rims without flat tires even!
> 
> How about paying some attention to the seat? It appears to be polished anodized aluminum with a razor sharp leading edge. It would seem to be more realistic if it had a soft surface look with seamless shadow gradients and soft round edges.


Thank you for the advice.

Here you have a new render with some mods: saddle material and edges, mini-seatpost, headbadge and model name (Galician word, BTW).


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

I'd really wish I had you CAD skills.

I make loads of things, but it's all based on a few notes, and what can be drawn on the back of a napkin.

Like my latest carbon frame, is based on half a sheet of A4 of scribbling and doodles.

Lately I've stepped up a bit, and quit on used napkins though 


Magura


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Mr.Magura said:


> I'd really wish I had you CAD skills.
> 
> I make loads of things, but it's all based on a few notes, and what can be drawn on the back of a napkin.
> 
> ...


I´d really wish I could build my own frames.... hehehe.

Thank you for your words!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi again, here you have the definitive version, with the fork in orange, new orange tone and yellow decoration in the saddle.

I hope you like it.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

VERY nice;

I like the seat and the new orange. Like the new background a lot. Warmer, brighter, and more interesting without infringing. 

Super detaily fussy opinion stuff -

- The light source (window/door) derived shadow further adds drama, interest, and realism without infringing. However, I would move the bike back from it (even just a little) so that these elements did not intersect. Or, move it forward so that they overlap more completely. With items like that, make them completely seperate or more completely integrated (at least 30%) because very partial engagement like this fools the eye by making the two conflict instead of harmonize. I hope that makes sense.
- Also, the edge of the shadow on the floor should be soft along its entire length. Perhaps more in focus (crisper) as it nears the light source, but not hard edged anywhere as it is in the lower half here.
- I find the stand distracting, but that's kind of picky. Perhaps changing its color - even very slightly - would allow the bike to stand apart from it a bit better. It sort of blends into the rear wheel too much. That might be my problem with it. Worth playing with anyway.

Very nice work.


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

*OK so it's not a frame...*

...but at least it goes IN a frame.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Lace that wheel up! Hehe.

Actually it looks good. Which SW are you using for modelling?

Waiting for more images....


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

I'm using SolidWorks for my models. I only have the standard version, so I can't do photo-realistic rendering, unfortunately.

I've seen spoked wheels modeled. Maybe some of them are yours? I may try it eventually, but it's not a priority right now. I wonder if people can actually model a laced wheel accurately, bends and all. That would be a trick!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

golden boy said:


> I'm using SolidWorks for my models. I only have the standard version, so I can't do photo-realistic rendering, unfortunately.
> 
> I've seen spoked wheels modeled. Maybe some of them are yours? I may try it eventually, but it's not a priority right now. I wonder if people can actually model a laced wheel accurately, bends and all. That would be a trick!


I model the wheels with the lacing, but I think I don´t do it accurately, or so accurately as a real wheel, but they are pretty close (IMHO).

At least with radial and 2X patterns, it´s easy to do.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

New work in progress. I´m not really sure about the TT, but I am waiting for your opinions.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Umm....

Is that recess where the beer cooler mount goes?


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## shandcycles (Jan 15, 2008)

TrailMaker said:


> Umm....
> 
> Is that recess where the beer cooler mount goes?


'cross, innit.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

shandcycles said:


> 'cross, innit.


Exactly. It´s for having a more comfortable TT for your shoulder.

Here you have the frame again, but with a tiny mod in the TT and the right CS.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

This is how it goes for the moment. 

I´m thinking about doing the fork again, because I think this one has very thin legs.

It has purple singlespeed Chris King hubs, Thomson seatclamp, and 3T components (Dorico, ARX and Rotundo).


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Too nice to take out in the mud!


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Too nice to take out in the mud!


Thank you, but it will not touch the mud, hehehe. Maybe I will this winter...


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Almost there!

I have modelled a 3T Ergoterra, Avid Shorty Ultimate with Cane Creek SCR-5 and Rotor Agilis Crankset.

I hope you like it.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

It's all very impressive to me;

It's getting hard to pick on these things, they're getting so good! Of course it won't go very far without a chain, but we already know you can handle those. No flats or bent rims either, anymore!

If I had to pick on something, and it is a very minor point to be sure, some of the bits seem a little "contrasty" on the edges to me. Most of the drawing has a very nice soft edge to it, as it would appear in a photo or to the eye. The previously mentioned chains, and also the edges of these tires, seem a little harsh or contrasty. The chains also apperar a bit two-dimmensional to me, but that is another issue.

Can you soften the edges of things by choice? These things draw attention to themselves, to my eye. Anything that draws attention is likely in NEED of some attention, in my opinion. They make me look at them, not because of interest, but because of visual balance. It is a very subtle thing, and I admit that most people would not even notice them, but often these things can make a surprising difference, even to those that don't consciously note such things.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> It's all very impressive to me;
> 
> It's getting hard to pick on these things, they're getting so good! Of course it won't go very far without a chain, but we already know you can handle those. No flats or bent rims either, anymore!
> 
> ...


Most of the times it depends on the lighting in the scene, but of course, I can soften the edges. I use to do that, but with the tire pattern and the chain, I skip this.

Here you have the finished bicycle, I hope you like it:


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

New project:

Steel 20" separable minivelo.

Gates Belt Drive System, Phil Wood hubs + carbon rims + Subrosa Street Digger, Thomson + 3T, Hope front brake, SG75...

I hope you enjoy it!

Cheers!


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

Nice work there....again 

I soo wish I had those skills, and a way to maintain them.


Magura


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

Just curious.

How long does it take you to do a bike like the last minibike?


Magura


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Mr.Magura said:


> Nice work there....again
> 
> I soo wish I had those skills, and a way to maintain them.
> 
> Magura


Thank you!



Mr.Magura said:


> Just curious.
> 
> How long does it take you to do a bike like the last minibike?
> 
> Magura


I cannot tell exactly because I have used some parts already modelled for previous bikes, but if I have to model the bike from scratch, it would be around 15-20 hours aprox + rendering time.


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

charlichin said:


> Thank you!
> 
> I cannot tell exactly because I have used some parts already modelled for previous bikes, but if I have to model the bike from scratch, it would be around 15-20 hours aprox + rendering time.


That's real quick. I spend like 5 hrs just to nail the numbers on paper for a frame.

Magura


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

Mr.Magura said:


> That's real quick. I spend like 5 hrs just to nail the numbers on paper for a frame.
> 
> Magura


That´s true!

But if one of these designs were meant to be built up, I would spend more time designing the geometry, wheel clearances... so the final time would be a bit higher.


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

charlichin said:


> That´s true!
> 
> But if one of these designs were meant to be built up, I would spend more time designing the geometry, wheel clearances... so the final time would be a bit higher.


Hmm, ok, so not much to gain in that aspect.

It looks real impressive though :thumbsup:

Magura


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

I have finished the Minivelo project, with 4 pics.

Here you have the Charlie War Folerpa:

Frame: Dedacciai DR-Zero
Fork: Exotic Carbon 20"
Headset: Chris King Threadless
Stem: Thomson X4
Handlebar: 3T Eryx LTD recortado
Pedals: Charlie War with Straps
BB: Sugino 75
Crankset: Sugino 75 with Gates Chainring 56 T
Cog: Gates 15 T
Chain: Correa Gates
Hub rear / front: Phil Wood ISO
Rims: Carbon Clincher 20"
Tires: Subrosa Streetdigger
Brake Lever: Hope
Brake: Hope con disco Ashima Airotor 180 mm.
Seatpost: Thomson Elite
Saddle: Flite 1990
Other: Oury Grips, Thomson seatcollar, S&S Couplers, stand: Trapistes Rochefort 6.


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

Very nice! I think your modeling skills are getting even better.


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

golden boy said:


> Very nice! I think your modeling skills are getting even better.


Thank you! Unfortunately this one is going to be my last model in a while (starting a new job).


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

Congratulations on the new job. What will you be doing?


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## charlichin (Dec 3, 2010)

golden boy said:


> Congratulations on the new job. What will you be doing?


Thank you! The job is not related with 3D modelling or bikes, but it´s related with my academical background: industrial automation.

Anyway, I will continue with this as soon as I have spare time to do it.

Cheers!!!


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