# Is my frame too small??? (pictures)



## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

Dear Mountain Bikers,

I'm new to the forum and to mountain biking in general. I want to get into the sport--so I have just picked up the Specialized Pitch 650b in an XS. It is a men's bike. I am 5'1'', 24 years old, female, and overweight (as you will see in the photos). I used to play rugby in college and have gained weight since--hoping to shred some of this weight while I am shredding the mountains! Located in Seattle, WA.

I bought this bike at my LBS; had it special ordered, actually. Here are the specs and measurements for the XS: Specialized Bicycle Components

I took it into another shop to buy some lights, and the mechanic there mentioned it was too small for me. He said that I should have gone with the S instead of the XS. But the other bike shop through which I ordered the bike told me to get the XS. And as a beginner, I have no clue what to believe. Can you guys please help me out? It's too late to return the bike, so, in the case that it is too small, I will need help picking out a longer stem.. and maybe higher, too, depending on what you guys say. I very, very much appreciate your help.


























Here are my embarrassing photos of me on the bike!

See attachments. Please let me know if no one sees them ...


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## Germanese (Aug 9, 2014)

It looks like it fits after the seat has been raised and Adjusted.

You could probably fit a S with less adjustment and it may grow with you.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

Thanks @Germanese for your response.

Should I get a longer stem? The reach feels a little cramped, but i don't know. Does it look cramped? 

Also, when you say it may grow with me, do you mean it will fit better as I lose weight?


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## Germanese (Aug 9, 2014)

Compared to my girls yes it looks cramped.

Here is what i see.

XS: Can be made to fit, Depending on Growth Check how much Seat Travel you have left. Seat can be Moved back and Longer stem can be installed.

S (As the other shop says): May fit better from the get go depending on model, or you have to get a shorter stem. The seat adjust are maybe less, but is able to go up further.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

In this photo the seat is already moved back as far as specs will allow. Will just the stem adjustment be enough? when i pedal aggressively, I am looking over the handlebars..


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## Germanese (Aug 9, 2014)

Ahhh oh dear.

Well yes u can push the limits and make it fir better with longer stem. 
Remember they only reach so much 60-70-90 in lengh its not much.

In other words yes the bike can made to fit with a small upgrade.
But it's at its limit in size for you already, if you grow much more you may outgrow this bike fast and need a one size up.

If you went with a S u probably grow with it longer.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

I am 24, so I don't think I'll grow any more. I hope that I grow smaller as I lose weight, actually. haha. That being said, should I try to swap it for a smaller frame? or should I try a longer stem? how about higher?


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## Germanese (Aug 9, 2014)

not smaller. yours is a XS right ? 
You would have to go up in size so larger to a small ?


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

oops you're right--I meant S. Should I go up to a S? maybe I can negotiate with the shop for a swap... what do you think?


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## Germanese (Aug 9, 2014)

Personally i would Try out an S in the shop. See if it fixes the Arm reach issues. If that is the case. and you can still fit it perfectly fine leg reach and all. Try swapping to the S. 

Else u can try changing the Geometry by upgrading parts.
Components you will be looking are Steering, Stem and maybe seat post (They make one that allow you to push seat further back)


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

I have already crashed the bike into a tree whilst running my dog, and the shop knows this becuase they had to true my wheel. so i don't think they'd be willing to switch it out for me, but i'll try anyway.

What is steering? do you mean handlebar?


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## Germanese (Aug 9, 2014)

yeah handle bar they have straight and risers and bend ones that can get you few cm/inches with combo of the stem.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

in that case, do you think I'll be too far over the steerer?


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## Germanese (Aug 9, 2014)

For just riding around you should be fine.

If you feel cramped urself then yes u need to change something to make it comfortable.
Also different riding calls for different Geometry.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

I want to hit the mountains--is there a danger other than discomfort of being too far forward over the handlebars?


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## Germanese (Aug 9, 2014)

https://p.vitalmtb.com/assets/bike_guides/bike_extras/infographic.jpg

This shows it nicely. some bikes can be adjusted to fit some characteristics some bikes are what they are due to Geometric limitations.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

so is mine a cross country bike? or a trail bike?


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## Germanese (Aug 9, 2014)

Looks like Cross Country, it can take on Trail with parts swapping ?


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

Germanese, thanks for all of your help! So you think a stem and steerer swap would do the trick? how about a fork swap?


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

At this point just raise the seat and ride the bike. You're a newbie, take this opportunity to get a few miles under your belt and see what you like and don't like about the bike. As you get more comfortable with more miles you will start to get a better feel to what makes for a good ride.

I recently moved away from the Seattle area, where do you ride?


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## Germanese (Aug 9, 2014)

stay away from upgrading exp forks for now until u know the exact Geometry that feels comfortable. As Mookie says move the seat and maybe find a stem and handlebar that makes it comfortable. Shift things back and forth until its comfortable.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

thanks again for yoru response, @mookie. I have ridden it for about two months, still feeling cramped. swapped out the grips and ergonomic grips seem to help a bit with hand pain, but overall i'm feeling like i'm leaning over the bars too much. I want to take it on some mountains (honestly i've only ridden around the streets and paved trails so far). i want to swap frame out now before it is too late--otherwise, i think your recommendation to ride around first would be a good idea--but again, if i need to switch the XS to S, i figure i ought to do it soon. do you think that my knees are too close to the head tube?


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

different forks have different geometries.. right? so i am getting overwhelmed with trying to pick out all of these pieces. lbs is not very much help!


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## Germanese (Aug 9, 2014)

To me one size up may fix the issues.

Swapping the Stem and Handle part with Seat Post adjustment, maybe a fast fix.

Swapping the Fork on a frame that you already feel wierd about is not a smart thing to do.

My bike and my girls at the moment feel extremely comfi to us but we think about switching to higher end type but, the comfort on how we like our bike is making it hard to switch.

But your problem is comfort already.


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## mtb_brew (Oct 7, 2014)

my thinking is, Why did this bike shop sell you such a small frame? I wouldn't take much advice from them and find another shop to give you the local advice that you need.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

newbie77 said:


> thanks again for yoru response, @mookie. I have ridden it for about two months, still feeling cramped. swapped out the grips and ergonomic grips seem to help a bit with hand pain, but overall i'm feeling like i'm leaning over the bars too much. I want to take it on some mountains (honestly i've only ridden around the streets and paved trails so far). i want to swap frame out now before it is too late--otherwise, i think your recommendation to ride around first would be a good idea--but again, if i need to switch the XS to S, i figure i ought to do it soon. do you think that my knees are too close to the head tube?


That bike looks a little small to me, you do seem a bit cramped. I'm guessing at some point you might have to at the very least get a longer stem. To be honest if you find that you really like riding then you might want to consider getting another bike. But like I said, ride this one for awhile and see how it works out for you.

For starters you might want to try Soaring Eagle or St Edwards. You can get some fairly mellow but fun singletrack in those two places while you get more familiar with your bike.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

@mrmattjohns I totally agree. that's why i don't want to go back. i'm going to school in LA, so I'm back and forth from Seattle a lot... and the shop I went to was in LA. I'm afraid to bug the shop again, but they really should have told me to get the proper size.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

@mookie it is a bit small. i'm afraid that a longer stem will just make me sit too far over the steerer. what do you think? 

I will be back in Seattle in a week (i go to graduate school in LA) so i will try those places! I'll bring my little brother with me.  

Now, if the shop doesn't take my bike back since I have already brought it in for a repair (i run my mastiff with teh bike and we got into a little crash into a tree--nothing big), should I just sell the frame? and try to swap the frame for a S? I'm very short on money but I want a good bike.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

@germanese I will try those things only if you all think it will be worth the money. the seat post adjustment, like i said, was already done. so if you think a stem and handle swap will suffice, then i will invest the money. otherwise i will try to sell it and buy a new bike altogether.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

newbie77 said:


> @mookie it is a bit small. i'm afraid that a longer stem will just make me sit too far over the steerer. what do you think?
> 
> I will be back in Seattle in a week (i go to graduate school in LA) so i will try those places! I'll bring my little brother with me.
> 
> Now, if the shop doesn't take my bike back since I have already brought it in for a repair (i run my mastiff with teh bike and we got into a little crash into a tree--nothing big), should I just sell the frame? and try to swap the frame for a S? I'm very short on money but I want a good bike.


The longer stem will at least get you in a better riding posture, but it won't completely solve your sizing issue. Given that you're not doing any technical riding, in the near term it'll be OK.

I'm pretty sure the shop won't take your bike back so you'll have to sell it yourself. Since its a new bike you could probably get a fair amount of your investment back by selling it on Craig's list.

If you decide to get another bike, take the time to shop around. Be sure to test ride a few bikes. You seem to have figured out that this bike isn't for you, so be as critical on your test rides. And before you buy you should post your choices here. You'll get plenty of feedback.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

I should be more hunched over, right? is this what you mean?

I will try to sell it. I didn't test ride this bike--I just ordered it because they recommended it. They only had higher end choices... the only other one in this price bracket was the Giant Talon, which i didn't like. I'm thinking about going all out--buying a dual suspension bike, but I have no idea how anything is supposed to fit. and i don't know if my intuition for that kind of thing will increase over time. anyway, thank you for the advice! i know I have a place to come back to next time i'm in the market! (hopefully soon.) I will try out those places you mentioned, btw! and this summer, too. --RI


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

newbie77 said:


> I should be more hunched over, right? is this what you mean?
> 
> I will try to sell it. I didn't test ride this bike--I just ordered it because they recommended it. They only had higher end choices... the only other one in this price bracket was the Giant Talon, which i didn't like. I'm thinking about going all out--buying a dual suspension bike, but I have no idea how anything is supposed to fit. and i don't know if my intuition for that kind of thing will increase over time. anyway, thank you for the advice! i know I have a place to come back to next time i'm in the market! (hopefully soon.) I will try out those places you mentioned, btw! and this summer, too. --RI


The longer stem will at least "spread you out", which will be a little more comfortable. Just a head's up, a full suspension bike will be considerably more expensive. If you decide to go that route be sure to really do your homework. And you really need to test ride several FS bikes. Given that you're a newbie you probably don't need FS at this point. Going with a hardtail will keep costs down but at the same time give you an opportunity to see what you like and don't like in a bike. In other words, buying a FS is more complicated than buying a hardtail so having a little experience would be helpful.


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

Fit starts with getting your knee over the pedal axle. You mostly do that with frame size .The top tube determines the reach ,you don't want to have a lot of bend at the elbows or to have them locked out.You can change the reach by frame size, saddle (moving it on the the rails or straight or set back seat post) and stem length . I would go to the shop where you bought it and tell them your issues ,they should have a chance to make you happy. The might change some parts for free or at a discount.Google bike fit tons of info out there. You could also pay someone for a fitting ,shops don't "fit you" they size you two different things.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

A longer stem and adjusting your seat back on the rails can help a lot. Before short stems and long bars were the fad, everyone rocked long stems and short bars. They didn't go over the handlebars or anything so stretching your stance on the bike a few inches isn't going to make or break the ride.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

The fit looks reasonably close IMO. I wouldn't go rushing out to get another bike right now. If you picked up a seatpost with a bit of layback as well as a slightly longer stem you may feel a lot more comfortable. This will give you a bit more room to stretch out while still keeping your center about the same.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Freeze, don't do anything. Call around to reputable bike shops in your area and find a legitimate bike fitting. It will cost you a couple hundred bucks but they will help sort out your bike and best fit it to you. They work wonders, and if you suffered any likely injuries in your past Rugby career they will be able to compensate for this as well. Do not buy a longer stem as most likely an offset seat post will be a better solution, but let a real expert take you measurements and fit your bike to you. 

It is unfortunate that you had the Off and are unable to exchange the bike, this being said do not start throwing money at this all willey nilly. The actual top tube difference between S and XS is only 2mm so lets not get all crazy here, go get expert on hands advice and I think in the end you will be happier with the smaller more nimble bike once you get a little more weight over the rear wheel.


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## heybrady (May 31, 2009)

For casual riding, you are probably ok on that bike. The goal now should be to get some good miles in riding. When/if you get more serious, you can upgrade to a new bike that fits your riding style better.

First, get your seat setup correctly. Get the proper height and front/back in order to keep pedaling as easy as possible.

Next, check out ebay for a couple of longer stems. They should not cost you more than 15 bucks each or so. 10mm makes a difference, even though it seems like a small amount, so try and find the next two stem lengths than the one on the bike. Go from there.

Yes, this is not a full formal fitting, but will cost you much less and end up in the same spot that a formal fitting would likely end up.


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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

heybrady said:


> For casual riding, you are probably ok on that bike. The goal now should be to get some good miles in riding. When/if you get more serious, you can upgrade to a new bike that fits your riding style better.
> 
> First, get your seat setup correctly. Get the proper height and front/back in order to keep pedaling as easy as possible.
> 
> ...


^^This is sound advice. As you get more fit, your position and needs are going to change. That will be the time to tweak your bike to more closely match your abilities. Now, if you run into comfort issues initially that you think are not related to your fitness, then maybe make a change.

Too, don't be embarrassed by your photos. You're on the right track to get fit again. Good luck!!


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

Agree with most people that a longer stem will probably make the ride more comfortable. Don't worry too much about being too far forward -- the slack position is relatively new and most advantageous on more aggressive terrain. You'll be fine. We've riding mountain bikes in "cross country" position over the same terrain for 30 years.

At 5' 1" tall, you're at the low end of most company's XS bikes so XS is probably the correct size for you.  That particular bike looks smaller than most XS though, so ride it and upgrade if you feel it's a problem...but put in a good 500 dirt miles first!

And I think you look GREAT!


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

It's easier to evaluate fit if the photos were of an ideal mtb body position such as "attack" or "neutral'. That being said, too small is always better than too big. Also, does OP know we have the Women's Lounge here? We love newbie gals of all sizes.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The early advice here was sketchy, but glad to see some more experienced posters show up and offer solid advice.

I agree with the "freeze" comments. Don't get hasty. The bike doesn't look too far off. It looks like the seat is pretty low. Based on the pics, I can't tell if you have short legs and it NEEDS to be low, or if you just have it adjusted a bit low compared to where it should be. With your pedal at the lowest point of its rotation, your knee should have a very slight bend to it. I couldn't tell in the pics you posted if that was the case or not, but with the pedal up, it does look like your knees are bent too much so raising the seat would at least help with that (and bring your knee a little farther away from the handlebars).

I also agree that a fitting might be a good idea. A good fit will not only account for your body proportions, but your flexibility and range of motion. Good fitters will offer "lifetime fits" where you can have the fit adjusted as you lose weight and your flexibility changes. An aggressive xc position might well be uncomfortable to you now. In a fitting, the fitter can find the handlebar position that will be comfortable to you and as you lose weight, develop your core strength, and improve flexibility, can bring you into a more aggressive position.

My wife is 5'3 and rides a small frame. She has a short torso and longer legs. Her torso does better on most XS frames, but to account for her longer inseam, the seat has to be sky-high and that pitches her way too far forward. Her first mtb (a small frame hardtail) didn't fit all that well, but it was close enough. She was able to learn on it and decide what was comfortable and what wasn't by comparing to other bikes on demo rides and such. When it came time for her to get a new one, we stayed with a small frame but focused on bikes that had especially short top tubes so we could dial her fit better. Early on, though, she didn't have the language to describe what she was feeling on her first bike. A good fitter would have helped that process along more quickly, but we didn't have one available to us where we were living who knew anything about fitting mountain bikes.

Ride what you have and only adjust one thing at a time if you can't visit a good fitter. Get the seat height dialed in first. All of the other adjustments will build out from there. Because of the angle of the seat tube, raising the seat will change how far you reach out to the handlebars, so changing the stem before you get seat height figured out may well waste money and make the fit worse. Once you get the seat height dialed, THEN address the fore-aft adjustment of the seat. Start with it in the middle and adjust from there. If that still doesn't do it, then getting a fitter is especially important because you don't want to start buying parts without knowing quite what you need. If money is tight, you don't want to buy parts and find out that they don't do what you thought they might and are unable to return them because they're used.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to NateHawk again.

Please do yourself a favor and listen to Nate, I had a similar issue with getting my wife fit as well. Single best money you can spend in this sport aside from a good helmet. Get a good fitting and you will not only feel more comfortable, you will also develop skills and confidence much more quickly.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

The seat tube on the bike looks really short...and the saddle is pulled up a decent amount. I'd check that the seatpost is not extended beyond the minimum insertion line.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

Thanks for your reply. I just spoke with the bike shop and they said they'd be willing to swap it for a S or M. I agree that I should get a fitting (I hadn't thought of injury considerations, but I DID break my ankle and tear some ligaments and tendons in that foot during rugby, and have some chronic pain in that ankle. If the bike fitters take even that kind of thing into account, I like the idea of consulting them!) Anyway, should I hold off on the swap? Or should I take advantage of it and go with a S or M?


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

Hey everyone. Thank you all so very much for your responses and kind words. what a great community you guys have here! I was originally planning to respond to each post individually but then I thought it'd be a better idea to make a general response. So,

-The seat post is actually high up--just not in the very last photo of just the bike alone. (In that photo it is much lower.) In the photos of ME on the bike, the seat is very high (it almost looks weird) and I am on my tippy tippy toes. Also the saddle is as far back on rails as specs will allow.

-Im glad to hear that an XS is still a tenable option for me with some adjustments. 

-I think I have relatively short legs, but I'm not sure.

-but the shop has agreed to swap sizes for me for free. Im thankful for that! Im thinking a S or M. What should I do?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

newbie77 said:


> Thanks for your reply. I just spoke with the bike shop and they said they'd be willing to swap it for a S or M. I agree that I should get a fitting (I hadn't thought of injury considerations, but I DID break my ankle and tear some ligaments and tendons in that foot during rugby, and have some chronic pain in that ankle. If the bike fitters take even that kind of thing into account, I like the idea of consulting them!) Anyway, should I hold off on the swap? Or should I take advantage of it and go with a S or M?


By willing I hope that means they have a small available for you to test ride.
If they do go in for a ride and have your bike with you to compare if possible. Ride it on the grass and into ditches for a little relevant info.
If they don't have a small, call around to test ride one in stock somewhere else.
People have been helping with fit. You mentioned full sus. And that you haven't been on trails yet.
So you may be considering a different bike and changing your budget. Your shop looks willing to swap and will likely swap to a better bike too.
This time go in early in the day for your bike pickup and don't leave with the bike until you get everything adjusted and a test ride gives you a good fit.
This may mean ordering something.
The fork on a bike has an impact on the terrain you can handle as a beginner. Rebound damping is a minimum requirement for trail riding.
A well setup hardtail will be less in most cases than the same level of full suspension, often $1k less.
A hardtail with a decent fork will get you on a lot of trails for the lowest cost.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

Hi eb1888, they don't have one in the shop. But by the looks of it, I'm guessing a small would be a good fit as the M would probably be too big. But maybe this bike, as you seem to be suggesting, might not be a good fit regardless of size. I could change bikes too.. But I've heard that this particular bike is a very good bang for the buck.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

I also didn't like the other model s in the store.. And the other bike shops in LA had a limited selection. There r mostly cruiser shops around here since I live on the west side


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

newbie77 said:


> -but the shop has agreed to swap sizes for me for free. Im thankful for that! Im thinking a S or M. What should I do?


Try them both. At 5' 1", I'd be shocked if you were a medium. I'm 5' 6" tall and fit perfectly on a Small on three brands: Yeti, Niner, and Scott. Now, the bike you're looking at may have some different geometry as it looks like it's designed to accommodate smaller riders. The bottom line is that you need to try them both and see what feels best.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Well sometimes you have to trek around a little. I hit 6 Trek shops within 50 miles to find 2 managers who would work with me on price and equipment swaps for my Superfly 9.6 last year.
This is the Suntour spec page for the fork on your bike..
Details*- SR SUNTOUR Cycling
It has nothing on the right side of the fork for adjustment, so no rebound damping of any kind. Without damping your fork pogos when you go over multiple bumps at faster speeds. This makes it difficult to hold on. Fun trails have bumps and hills.
If you look at the other 'X' models you see some have a hydraulic lockout. That is a sealed cartridge in the right stanchion that also acts as a damper and on some versions is adjustable.
The Pitch Comp has an XCM with hydraulic lockout and non adjustable rebound damping it appears. That fork should work on trails. But it bumps you up $240.
Suntour has a $200 loyalty fork upgrade program to a much better Raidon air fork for the $560 bike. A Raidon is 2 lbs. lighter.
The Sport has hydraulic lockout on an XCT for $700. It should also work on trails.
It looks like a small gives you 21mm more reach with the same stack. Both sizes have the same 60mm stem. You could get 10mm more space with a 70mm without much change in handling. Wide bars also use up cockpit space and can help control your bike when you hit rocks and roots. It doesn't list bar width.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

@eeb1888 so, in layman's terms, you think I ought to go with the S and upgrade fork to Raidon fork? I am willing to spend the extra on the comp or sport models too. Wdyt?


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

@KevinGT they don't have this bike in shop, and they probably aren't willing to order both sizes


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

At 5'1" tall.... I am not sure XS is not the correct size for you. Contact a fitter and bring your current bike. The good thing is measurements can be put to any other mountain bike. Tell the manager you will get the fitting and then if needed will do a swap maybe to the small, the medium would be very bad. You can get along fine with a slightly smaller bike, but bigger then needed is terrible.

Also yes they will take into account your ankle and any other issues. The Ankle injury would be more prevalent if you were riding clipless, but they will adapt. For a reference look for a shop or Sports Therapy clinic or office that offers a bike fitting equivalent to this:

Body Geometry Mountain Bike Fit | Erik's Bike Shop | Performance Bike Fitting


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

@kevinGT and @Phinias, I think you guys are right. I really need to try on bikes and perhaps get a fitting done. Ultimately that is how to solve this mystery! But since the shop sent me an offer, I thought I'd jump on it! A small couldn't be very far off! But I will look for fitting sessions.. if I can afford it. Thank u both (and everyone else!) for your good advice!


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

The XS looks too small. I think a S Pitch would be the right size for you. I'm about 5'7" and the M is the size that would fit me. The standover of the S is about 1.5" higher than the XS you have now. If your legs are long enough for you to clear the top tube when you stand over a S, I'd take them up on their offer to switch sizes.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

Without spending the money on a proper fitting, my guess is that you are right. The seat tube on the XS is freakishly short, even for me. I have to raise the seat a good 12 inches which is ridiculous.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Geralt, the part your not taking into consideration is women are built differently then men....thankfully. At 5'5" my wife fits best on a small and that's on a women specific bike. The Pitch's geo is built around a guys measurement and as such the OP is probably best served with the XS... regardless we are just chucking guesses out here. The OP needs to get a pro to look at her on the bike and make the correct recommendation for her.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

newbie77 said:


> @eeb1888 so, in layman's terms, you think I ought to go with the S and upgrade fork to Raidon fork? I am willing to spend the extra on the comp or sport models too. Wdyt?


I'd rather have a Raidon then the forks on the other models.
So let's play around with your existing bike.
From your picture it looks like you can sit on the seat and put your foot on the floor.
That doesn't work for a good pedaling fit. The seat has to be higher. You can safely learn to first move off the seat to get off the bike and get on by stepping on a pedal as you push off to get starting momentum. People recommend a slightly bent knee at the bottom of your crank stroke, but that is a road bike 'efficiency is foremost' fit. I like something a little lower up to an inch to allow for easy movement forward and back so you can deal with hills, bumps and curves.
So move that seat up and you will have to lean against a wall or something for another picture.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

Well, the pictures are a bit deceiving. In the pictures, my one foot can tippy toe, and the other is off ground. If I raised it higher, I'd have to do what u say and take another photo. I'll try to do that later on today.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

newbie77 said:


> Well, the pictures are a bit deceiving. In the pictures, my one foot can tippy toe, and the other is off ground. If I raised it higher, I'd have to do what u say and take another photo. I'll try to do that later on today.


Don't worry about how far the seat post is coming out of the seat tube at this point. You can get a 400mm(longer) seat post if you need it. They make them because people need them. Not everyone has the standard dimensions for a given height.
Tippy toe is probably ok so you may be at a good seat height. Try it just an inch or less higher. The bike by itself pic looks like the seat is low.


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

What's your pants inseam length?

Or better yet, what's your cycling inseam length? 
https://www.petitebikefit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/inseammeasurement11.png

I'm judging by the photos more than anything else, but knowing the proportions of your leg length to your height would help nail things down.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

eb1888 said:


> People recommend a slightly bent knee at the bottom of your crank stroke, but that is a road bike 'efficiency is foremost' fit.


There's a fudge factor with stating it that way. Yes, you can absolutely have a slight bend to your knee AND have enough room to move around above it. This is why I didn't give an exact angle for the knee bend.

I have noticed that some manufacturers are fudging women's sizing smaller than it used to be, but I don't know about the specific bike that you have there. The pictures just don't give quite the right views to be able to say for sure. Ideally, we'd need to actually watch you pedaling the bike to see how you look riding it. This is where a better fitting comes into play. It's possible that either it's the right size and simply needs adjusted, but it could also possibly be too small. Can't say for sure here.


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

I think that you missed one of the posts that stated that there is only 2mm difference in top tube length ,that is important. If that is true ,then you aren't really gaining much by swapping bikes. Maybe find a fitter or someone to watch you ride the bike.Or do a video and post it here ,we could tell a lot more by seeing you ride.


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

There's 2.1 cm effective top tube difference.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Geralt said:


> There's 2 cm difference not 2 mm.


Actually 2mm 546 versus 548.....


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

That's actual not effective. ETT is 2.1 cm difference. That also shows up in the reach difference between the two sizes.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Effective is miss-leading, but the biggest issue I see with the geo is the really large step up in stand over...OP stats she has shorter legs....


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

That's got to be a misprint or not relevant based on all the other dimensions.
Reach 21mm more.
Top tube length 21mm more.
Wheelbase length 21mm more.
Front center 21mm more.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> That's got to be a misprint based on all the other dimensions.
> Reach 21mm more.
> Top tube length 21mm more.
> Wheelbase length 21mm more.


It is because the top tube is raised higher in the seat tube than in the XS. The angle difference is why it seems much different.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

That's why the actual isn't relevant on the XS. Reach and front center are better measurements.


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## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

edit sorry


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Try moving the seat back as far as it goes and take another pic with your knee up on the pedal. Also, try to lean your shoulder on a wall while sitting on the bike and put your foot on the pedal as far down as possible so that we can see your actual knee bend. Then we can gauge better if the seat post should be higher.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

newbie77 said:


> Without spending the money on a proper fitting, my guess is that you are right. The seat tube on the XS is freakishly short, even for me. I have to raise the seat a good 12 inches which is ridiculous.


You don't need to really pay for a full fit. The shop should be able to do a quick adjustment for you.

Alot of the information in this thread being tossed at you can be overwhelming and at times confusing.

I would not be concerned about swapping out parts at the moment. I would get the body dialed in first.

Did you pick your bike up at Cynergy?


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

I am going to try to avoid a fit at all costs. (haha) I didn't pick up my bike at Cynergy. 

I think it is ridiculous that I have to have my seat raised almost a foot out of the seat tube and that I am looking for a new stem with more length and rise. I am almost certain that the small will fix my cramped reach problem. My leg extension is no problem.. just the reach. seriously the reach is less than two feet from saddle to bars. it's ridiculous.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

out of the box, the S would be best, I think. I don't think I should stay with an XS and then have to buy a bunch of extra parts to compensate. I'm heading into the shop tomorrow to see if they will switch it.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

Of course, I want to add that a bike fit would be most helpful, but I don't have a lot of funds right now.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Though I'm sure a pro bike fitting is great, very few of the tons of people I know that ride have ever had one. I think grabbing the small if you can would be great. If not, try a stem and maybe a post, or even a seat that might have a longer rail section than the one you have now so you could possibly slide it back a bit farther.

Nothing wrong with showing some post if that's what puts you where you need to be. I think I might even have ya beat.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

newbie77 said:


> I am going to try to avoid a fit at all costs. (haha) I didn't pick up my bike at Cynergy.
> 
> I think it is ridiculous that I have to have my seat raised almost a foot out of the seat tube and that I am looking for a new stem with more length and rise. I am almost certain that the small will fix my cramped reach problem. My leg extension is no problem.. just the reach. seriously the reach is less than two feet from saddle to bars. it's ridiculous.


I've bought a new stem and handlebar for every bike I've ever bought because it's extremely rare to buy a bike and not need a single adjustment. Everyone's body is proportionally different and little tweaks here and there are necessary. You might find on a small you want a shorter stem, and that's OK too. I buy frames that I know will accommodate a short stem because thats my preference. I like the more responsive steering. Some people find it twitchy and prefer a longer stem. Some people like wider bars for more precision, others like a skinnier bar. It really depends on the person. As for seat post length, it's the same deal. Theres nothing wrong with extending the seat post if it makes you comfortable.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

newbie77 said:


> out of the box, the S would be best, I think. I don't think I should stay with an XS and then have to buy a bunch of extra parts to compensate. I'm heading into the shop tomorrow to see if they will switch it.


When you swap bikes...ask them to help you set up your saddle position. Even though its not a full fit...if they know what they are doing...it should set you in the right direction.

Ride the bike for a couple weeks. By then...you should be able to tell if you need to make any further adjustments.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

You should get a basic fit with the purchase. I've never not had a fit where seat height for climbing was set, saddle fore/aft was checked, and stem options were looked at.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

yeah, you do have me beat there. but your reach looks good. (at least it doesn't look ridiculous like mine!)


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

*seatpost pictures*


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I've shortened up the stem a bit - that pic was from when I first threw it together. But yeah, my frame is short in the back and long in the front. Yours definitely looks more cramped; the slightly larger frame sure won't hurt any.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

*Update (and questions)*

hey everyone. I went into the bike shop today and they were amazing. so very helpful and knowledgeable. They ordered the S in for me from another shop to try, so I am currently waiting on that. They mentioned that the problem with the XS is twofold: (1) My reach is cramped and (2) my knee hangs too far over pedal. This is because my femur (upper leg) is long compared to my tibia (lower leg). And they were keen to point that out. They pretty much gave me two options:

(A) Keep the XS and add a stem and saddle with longer rails. They said that the reach problem could be fixed with a 900 stem, but that the pedal problem would remain an issue.
(B) Go with the S and see if the leg issue will be resolved. If so, then the S is best. The only downfall is the added 37mm of standover height. (Note that on the XS, I am already making contact.)

So, 2 question for you guys.

(I) How important is standover, and would it be worth losing standover for the resolution of the knee-hanging-over-pedal-axle problem?
(II) Do you think the S, given the geometry (see first page of thread), will solve the knee-hanging-over-pedal problem? Or will the sameness of the angle between the sizes render the S a non-solution?

Thanks in advance!


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## TheGweed (Jan 30, 2010)

Are you going to be standing over the bike or riding it? It is very rare that standover is a problem while riding or falling.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

You can adjust to no standover.
You get on and off the bike by standing on a pedal. This gives you lots of clearance.
Trails aren't often as flat as a store floor anyway.
You can tip the bike to one side.
You can evaluate the riding fit of the S and make your choice then.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

That sounds like a good idea. I was thinking standover wasn't a big issue, but the guys at the shop seemed to be more worried than I was, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything big. Thanks guys!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Standover isn't typically an issue once you've ridden a little bit and gotten in the habit of dismounting onto one foot, not two. Standing over your toptube is a position that really has no purpose and isn't all that hard to avoid, though you do occasionally end up there on accident, particularly if you're trying to progress and ride more challenging terrain. I think the positives of the S frame outweigh the potential (minor) negatives.

Sounds like you found a good shop too. That helps a lot.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

thegweed said:


> Are you going to be standing over the bike or riding it? It is very rare that standover is a problem while riding or falling.


It Is more likely to be a problem when making an unexpected transition from riding to not riding while seeking an alternative to falling. The OP already has negative standover clearance, the S frame would put the top tube over 1 1/2 inches higher than his nuts.

Would only recommend that if he either has such awesome skills that he always cleans everything he tries without stopping or dabbing, or if he has a really high tolerance for pain.


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

A change in size won't resolve the long femur issue. The seat tube angle and the crank length are the same for the XS and S. Your knee will be in the same position relative to the pedal with the S. You'll just be showing less seatpost with the S.

My suggestion would be to get the saddle back farther(to help with the long femur issue) even with the S and use a shorter stem if needed with the S. How much extra reach did the shop decide that you need? If you could get most of the extra reach you need for the XS by moving the saddle back(saddle with longer rails and maybe a seatpost with more offset) and use a bit longer stem, the XS may be the best way to go.

Lack of standover is definitely something you have to get used to, but it's not an insurmountable difficulty. I like standover clearance, the more the better, but I have zero standover clearance on one of my bikes, and it's really more of an annoyance than a hazard. It makes it harder to get a foot down if you stall out on a climb and the footing is bad, but since that happens at about 0 m.p.h., it's not too bad. 1.5" on the wrong side of standover...I dunno...I've never had to deal with that.


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

andytiedye said:


> It Is more likely to be a problem when making an unexpected transition from riding to not riding while seeking an alternative to falling. The OP already has negative standover clearance, the S frame would put the top tube over 1 1/2 inches higher than his nuts.
> 
> Would only recommend that if he either has such awesome skills that he always cleans everything he tries without stopping or dabbing, or if he has a really high tolerance for pain.


OP is female, FWIW.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

That XS looks a good bit smaller than some other XS bikes I've seen.

If your reach is cramped AND you have a long femur issue, this could well be a good case for a layback seatpost. That would address both of those issues. It would lengthen the cockpit and put your hips farther behind the bottom bracket. It will push your center of gravity rearward, though, and may make it harder for you to keep the front end down on steep climbs. But when your body proportions necessitate adjustments like that, it can be tough.

Now, I'm not sure if a layback seatpost would solve all your problems or not (without creating new ones), but it's an option to consider, because moving to a larger bike will give you a longer cockpit, but won't really change how the bike fits your femur so much.


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## tk1971 (Aug 10, 2007)

Assuming they're the same bike, if the shop will entertain swapping out the wear parts like the wheels/tires, seat/seatpost, etc, then maybe you can swap for a S from your XS with minimum cost?


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## Elbastardo (Oct 30, 2014)

The bike looks small, but that could be the angle of the picture.

If you get a longer stem, try getting an 8 degree stem and flip it so it goes down instead of up, and raise the seat. That should help the cramped feeling. You could also flip your current stem, and see how that feels, first, then if you still feel cramped, get a longer one.

You could also try a setback seat post.

Before you do all that, check this bike fot calculator first:
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Store/catalog/fitCalculatorBike.jsp

El


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

That stand over will be an issue, once again I will take one more stab at trying to convince you to get the bike fit properly. My guess is that you will go with the small and ignore this advice and that is fine, just remember it when you have no way to deal with the stand over.


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## Whacked (Sep 29, 2008)

Finally, someone mentioned what should have been said at the start.

Competitive Cyclist bike fit calculator.

THEN based on manufacturers listed geometry specs you can pick a frame size based on you body dimensions.

THEN you can get the bike to fit properly with minimal parts swap.

FORK. Don't worry about that yet. Get some saddle time in first. Peope here forget that you do not need to start learning to drive in a Ferrari. When your bike handling skills improve you will notice the limitations of the fork. Then you can upgrade that. If you can afford a bike with a good fork, so be it, not everyone can. I still roll with a cheap coil fork. Where & how I ride I feel its limitations but upgrading it is a low priority for me.


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## Elbastardo (Oct 30, 2014)

Whacked said:


> Finally, someone mentioned what should have been said at the start.
> 
> Competitive Cyclist bike fit calculator.
> 
> ...


Yup. I think she (op) will find that like me she is a tweener. I think the most important thing will be to get a women's bike, as that will address a lot to begin with.

Combine that with using the bike fit calculator, she'll be on the right path. I can theoretically ride a large or XL. I chose a large because I prefer having more stand over height to save my nads. Gotta protect the man parts.

Raising my saddle, running wider bars and flipping my stem solved the reach/position issues.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I hesitate to send newbies to the online fit calculators. They are a great resource if you know what the numbers mean. And the conclusions they reach are even harder to match to bodies with proportions a bit outside the norm.


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## Whacked (Sep 29, 2008)

True NateHawk, but someone outside the norm will be hard to fit regardless. At least with the fit calculator you can get a good guess rather than blindly pick.

Plus, the OP is now a member of a good forum and if so inclined, can post # and info passed on.


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## Biggie (Dec 11, 2004)

Newbie77, from one retired rugger to another, a bike with high standover for you is not optimal. However, a bike that has a short effective top tube for a long torso is a massive fail, it places too much body weight over the front wheel which leads to over the bars (OTB) situations. I was a prop. I'm 5'10" and 250lbs and if I'm a tweener with a particular model of bike I always like the bigger size more. While I don't like crowded dangly bits through standover being cramped in the cockpit is way worse!


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## Whacked (Sep 29, 2008)

Standover is overrated. Way too many times as a kid i have racked my jewels on the stem of my Huffy. I learned to dismount to the side.
I really cannot think of a time when a dismount over the TT would be needed or preferred. Crashing? Those are usually OTB, sometimes to the side (controlled crash or otherwise) and rarely to the rear. Besides straddling the TT puts the saddle nose right into the small of your back and a good way to pull your shorts off trying to mount up


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## joel787 (Nov 21, 2011)

newbie77 said:


> Dear Mountain Bikers,
> 
> I'm new to the forum and to mountain biking in general. I want to get into the sport--so I have just picked up the Specialized Pitch 650b in an XS. It is a men's bike. I am 5'1'', 24 years old, female, and overweight (as you will see in the photos). I used to play rugby in college and have gained weight since--hoping to shred some of this weight while I am shredding the mountains! Located in Seattle, WA.
> 
> ...


do you feel comfortable on the bike? riding is about feel and comfort not what anyone else opinion is ... I'm 5'11 and my Ht is a Sm but i like small frames, my gf rides the same bike time to time and she is between 5'6-5'8, she likes it.. so its about what u want


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## Jake January (Sep 12, 2014)

I think you can adjust that bike to be comfortable for you,

I'm 5'10" and ride a small Specialized rockhopper, technically I'd size for a medium frame. The shorter 170 pedal crank on the small frame which means a little less stress on the knee over the 175 crank. If I were to build a bike over a medium frame I opp fro the shorter pedal crank.
I used an adjustable stem and a stem extender to bring the handle bars up and back for a more comfy upright position.
I also got a Brooks B17 standard which made a huge difference. I'm going to get a Brooks Flyer Special next to help with long days in the saddle. I've been riding 60-80 kms days.
I'm going to also switch to some Schwalbe Big Apple tires to smooth out the ride some.

I'm also studying Moots titanium seatposts. It seems crazy to spend $350 on a seatpost on a bike I only paid $350 for. But I understand a really good seatpost can make a big difference in comfort.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Yep...looks too small. Top tube isn't long enough. Can slide seat back some and get a longer stem to help out. Looks like you will hit your toe on the front tire in certain situations. Go back and see about having them trade it for the next size up.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Whacked said:


> Standover is overrated. Way too many times as a kid i have racked my jewels on the stem of my Huffy.


Is that the origin of your screen name?


Whacked said:


> I learned to dismount to the side.


So did I, but if the standover gets to be upwards of negative 1 1/2 inches (as would be the case with the OP on a small frame) this becomes an increasingly marginal proposition. At least pole-dancing on the toptube probably isn't so painful for her as it would be for us guys.


Whacked said:


> I really cannot think of a time when a dismount over the TT would be needed or preferred....


1. Narrow singletrack where dismounting to the side means going over the edge.

2. Every time I lose traction on a steep climb. Instant loss of all forward momentum. No time to dismount to side.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

standover is overrated. It's a minor preference issue, not an issue of fit. I don't care about my bike's standover clearance. I have ridden a few full suspension bikes that had negative standover when they were unweighted, and it was just something I got used to and adapted my behavior to. Dismount to the side, with the opposite pedal "up" or at least horizontal. Clearance is no longer a problem. Be comfortable doing it on both sides, so you can always dismount to the uphill side.

Even when I lose traction on a steep climb and lose forward momentum, I somehow manage the impossible - I dismount to the side. I'm not sure why this is a problem for you, andy. I have showed people this technique at the shop where I work part time, and it's like a revelation to them. They suddenly realize that the perceived problem they were having with standover isn't nearly the problem they were making it before. I have to wonder if andytiedye is doing something wrong.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Agree. Case in point. Buddy had a 54cm cyclocross bike that I bought...thought it would be too big (I am 5'6" and usually ride a 52cm road bike). Top tube was close and with a compact bar, shorter stem, and few other tweaks..fits like a glove. So my nuts rest on the tube a bit when I stand straddling the top tube..how often does that actually happen? For me, almost never. Sure, a 52 probably fits better overall, but standover isn't the end-all-be-all of fit.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Vertically challenged people rarely have any standover clearance on a properly fitting bike and tall people have plenty of clearance no matter what bike they choose. If I were shorter I'm sure I could learn to live without it but I'm also glad I've never had to.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^yep.


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## Elbastardo (Oct 30, 2014)

NateHawk said:


> standover is overrated. It's a minor preference issue, not an issue of fit. I don't care about my bike's standover clearance. I have ridden a few full suspension bikes that had negative standover when they were unweighted, and it was just something I got used to and adapted my behavior to. Dismount to the side, with the opposite pedal "up" or at least horizontal. Clearance is no longer a problem. Be comfortable doing it on both sides, so you can always dismount to the uphill side.
> 
> Even when I lose traction on a steep climb and lose forward momentum, I somehow manage the impossible - I dismount to the side. I'm not sure why this is a problem for you, andy. I have showed people this technique at the shop where I work part time, and it's like a revelation to them. They suddenly realize that the perceived problem they were having with standover isn't nearly the problem they were making it before. I have to wonder if andytiedye is doing something wrong.


Remember OP is new to the sport. Easier to learn on a well-fit bike than not.

Also, at least taking the measurements online helps her better understand what type she should get and have a more educated conversation with her LBS.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Elbastardo said:


> Remember OP is new to the sport. Easier to learn on a well-fit bike than not.
> 
> Also, at least taking the measurements online helps her better understand what type she should get and have a more educated conversation with her LBS.


I'm aware she's new. I also see that her fit is outside the norm. I doubt she's going to spring for a custom built bike at this stage. A little too small is better than a little too big. You'll see my suggestions earlier in the thread fit with that theme.

It won't hurt having the numbers, but it won't help if she doesn't understand them. IME, most small shops don't have a pro fitter around, and those that do don't always have good ones who could/would give much help based on a printout. I'm all for new riders to keep things simple and avoid overanalyzing. An online fit calculator for a new rider would fall into the realm of overanalyzing and could easily become analysis paralysis.

I think the bike she has could be made to fit better with a few adjustments if she's not willing/able to spring for a full fitting. I don't think a complete bike swap is necessary, or necessarily the best way to achieve the best fit in this case.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Fitting a mountainbike is not rocket-science and usually doesn't require much in terms of adjustment. The bike looks too small, take it back to the shop and plead for a swap-out or a different brand etc. that fits better. Maybe even (gasp), 26" wheels.....


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## Whacked (Sep 29, 2008)

andytiedye said:


> Is that the origin of your screen name?
> 
> So did I, but if the standover gets to be upwards of negative 1 1/2 inches (as would be the case with the OP on a small frame) this becomes an increasingly marginal proposition. At least pole-dancing on the toptube probably isn't so painful for her as it would be for us guys.
> 
> ...


No, then my screen name would be "Racked" 

Interesting points. Never thought of that then again, my trails are pretty tame.
I can see how a steep,narrow trail would be an issue but I would always pick dismount on uphill side.
In losing traction, when it has with a couple very rare occasions, I always had time to lean to the side. Pretty much like unclipping from the pedals. Even during a crash I have found time to unclip except once. first crash clipped in. Picture a rider crossing a stream, now invert the rider, that was me. On my back turtle-like with bike above me.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I don't really expect beginners are going to be tackling a lot of technical trails along foot-wide ridges with cliffs on both sides.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

I still want to encourage OP to come to the women's lounge for the female perspective.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> Fitting a mountainbike is not rocket-science and usually doesn't require much in terms of adjustment......


This is simply not true, in fact there is more to take in account of when fitting a mountain bike the in fitting a road bike. There are the same number of adjustments, just more stances to account for on a mountain bike. It is this misconception of it not mattering because it is a mountain bike that discourages new riders from investing a couple hundred bucks of the best money they will spend on a pro fitting.

Also stand over does matter... It is a safety issue if she gets bumped to the downhill side of a narrow trail then she will be SOL. This is not a rare occurrence and anyone who claims stand over doesn't matter needs to spend less time reguritating something they read on a forum somewhere and start asking fitters and coaches why it matters.


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## joel787 (Nov 21, 2011)

edit


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Phinias said:


> Also stand over does matter... It is a safety issue if she gets bumped to the downhill side of a narrow trail then she will be SOL.


I do agree that it matters (we seem to be in the minority here) however if you have ever tried to fit a small person on a bike you will have also discovered that they have to choose between a bike that is too short (top tube/reach) or one that fits right but has no standover clearance.

Shorter cranks, lower bottom bracket, and smaller wheels would solve this problem but unfortunately would create other issues.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm a little late to the party and I agree, you should be on a S frame. 
If you have to hang onto this frame for a while, try a Thomson setback seat post. 
I'm 6'5"... I felt cramped on my XL 907 fatbike. It already has a 100mm stem on it and I didn't want to go further forward. I installed the Thomson post, end of problem. Bike feels perfect now.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Phinias said:


> anyone who claims stand over doesn't matter needs to spend less time reguritating something they read on a forum somewhere and start asking fitters and coaches why it matters.


Or possibly less time regurgitating what people who make money from selling fittings say?

"You really, really need this. And I just happen to sell it."

Hmmmm...

Standover and fit matter. But since you move around a lot on a mtn bike, 'perfect' fit is far less critical than on a road bike for the most. Standover is a 'nice to have', not a 'have to have'. No bikes had standover in the early days; millions of miles have been ridden over very high top tubes. Sloping them was a design improvement that didn't come into play until later in the game.


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

NYrr496 said:


> If you have to hang onto this frame for a while, try a Thomson setback seat post.


The seatpost on the Pitch has 12.5 mm of offset. A Thomson setback post only has 16 mm, not a lot of difference. She could probably find a post with 20-25 mm of offset, but more than that would likely be difficult to find.


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## Carton (Sep 15, 2014)

^Yeah it's not that much, considering the starting point, but going from a 12.5 to a 25 or even a 32mm offset should be easy enough (she could always just buy it online) and should help at least a bit. And I'm not sure that she even has the seat all the way back on the rails. Plus the seat looks a bit low on the pictures, so upping the seat should mean a little longer reach still. So that might add up to almost an extra couple of inches of reach she could get while "better" aligning her knees to the pedals.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> Or possibly less time regurgitating what people who make money from selling fittings say?
> 
> "You really, really need this. And I just happen to sell it."
> 
> ...


No cars had seat belts before as well, would you advocate that those are not needed just because that wasn't the norm before? I only know the place and experience I had with fitting and it was a game changer for me. I could actually go out and ride decently tetchy trails and not have lay up in bed recovering for a couple days (4 back surgeries). So yeah I will recommend a fitting because it just works, and works better than coming on to a forum and asking people who most likely never had a fitting, and dare I say are probably riding around on fit that is less than optimal.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Phinias said:


> No cars had seat belts before as well, would you advocate that those are not needed just because that wasn't the norm before?


That's a pretty silly stretch.

If somebody has physical issues and isn't able to figure out how to fit their bike themselves, as in your situation, then a fitting is a logical next step. That's not typical though. For most people though, particularly novices, it's not something I'd be likely to advise blowing money on.

I dunno what 'optimal' means as far as mtb fit. It's all just compromise; the 'optimal' position changes from moment to moment, trail to trail, and across riding styles and just how you're feeling that day. I have quite a few bikes and swap among them all the time. I also change out fit parts like bars, posts, pedals, seats, stems, etc constantly. I have a very good idea of where I want to be on any given bike, what compromises I am making with my set up, and how I want things to ride and handle. It would be impossible for anyone else to set up my bike for me; how can they possibly know what I want better than I do myself?


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> That's a pretty silly stretch.
> 
> If somebody has physical issues and isn't able to figure out how to fit their bike themselves, as in your situation, then a fitting is a logical next step. That's not typical though. For most people though, particularly novices, it's not something I'd be likely to advise blowing money on.
> 
> I dunno what 'optimal' means as far as mtb fit. It's all just compromise; the 'optimal' position changes from moment to moment, trail to trail, and across riding styles and just how you're feeling that day. I have quite a few bikes and swap among them all the time. I also change out fit parts like bars, posts, pedals, seats, stems, etc constantly. I have a very good idea of where I want to be on any given bike, what compromises I am making with my set up, and how I want things to ride and handle. It would be impossible for anyone else to set up my bike for me; how can they possibly know what I want better than I do myself?


No novice jumps on a bike and knows how a bike is supposed to feel. It just doesn't happen that way. Look at all the fit questions on this board. So I would suggest all novices get a fitting period. It becomes a necessity for people who have had injuries. 
I don't know which thread it was in this forum, but AndrewSwitch talked about having ridden for years and even raced. He broke down and got a proper fitting and discovered a few things that once adjusted worked better for him. These were tweaks, if I rember correctly, he was highly suspicious of and would not have done himself because it was different then what he thought knew and liked.
My guess is if everyone went to get such a fitting they would easily walk away recommendations that would help even you.

It amazes me how the same people will tell a novice that the first thing is to look for in a bike is fit... Then scoff at the idea of actually getting a fitting done... Just blows my mind.


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## newbie77 (Dec 15, 2014)

Hey everyone! Thank you all for your responses. As always, I am very appreciative of them. Also, I hope that all of you are enjoying the holiday season. I am back! 

I am currently out of town, so I won't be able to test drive the S until the second week of January. I will keep you posted. Definitely will post an update (hopefully w pics) of me trying out the S. 

until then, I'll note that I am getting mixed opinions about which size would be better, as is expected considering my being a "tweener." ultimately I'm going to go with what feets best, and w what looks best to the ppl at the shop. A fitting is a bit out of my budget currently, but I hope to get one some day relatively soon. Anyway, I'll update u all as soon as I try the S.


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