# Can't believe a bike can be this cheap...



## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

I thought about posting this in the "what bike to buy" forum, but decided this would be better. I don't think I want people going out any buying these since I seriously have to doubt the quality on a bike this cheap. For $299, it comes with Manitou fork (not sure which one), Deore 27 speed drivetrain, and Hayes mechanical disc brakes. That seems impossible. That is way less than dealer cost on a similarly spec'd bike. I wonder how many 4 year old Cambodian children it takes to build one of these.

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.htm...0?_encoding=UTF8&frombrowse=1&asin=B000E3WW5Y


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## dumpy (Apr 17, 2005)

*yup its a manitou*

I checked out (not that I didn't believe you, but a reverse arch could spark a false manitou sighting) and their webpage claims there bikes have forks made by answer. It didn't specify which one though. If for whatever reason you wanted to get your hands on a deore group, it might just be cheaper to buy this bike. Its scary that the big boxes are starting to catch on....


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## whataboutben (Oct 6, 2005)

I'm still getting to grips with the fact that you can buy a bike (regardless of quality) for under USD$70 at that Walmart joint... there is something wrong with that.

p.s I do know that they are about as good as a bike made from Tinfoil and jamjar lids...


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

I'd rather buy from these guys than Target in any case, but this price point isn't that hard to achieve if that's the kind of bike that would work for you http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/ALP-350-Details.html


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> I'd rather buy from these guys than Target in any case, but this price point isn't that hard to achieve if that's the kind of bike that would work for you http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/ALP-350-Details.html


Yeah, Ibex has some really good deals, but still no Deore/Manitou/Hayes bikes for under $300. I feel very threatened by that price since I work for a shop. That is a lot less than our cost on something close to the same spec.


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## revmonkey (Jun 5, 2005)

i'd buy that just for the parts...


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## scstough (Dec 8, 2005)

revmonkey said:


> i'd buy that just for the parts...


I might also and sell it all on ebay!!!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*yeah....*

... I'm amazed they can build a functioning bicycle (loosely used) with gears, partially assemble it, stick it in a box, ship it (40-50 lbs worth in the box) to the US, assemble it, sell it at $60 and still make 30 points profit to the retailer.

Just think of the economy built up around that.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Keep in mind just because a brand name is present, that it may not have much to do with the same level of components most of us use from those same brands....


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## revmonkey (Jun 5, 2005)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> Keep in mind just because a brand name is present, that it may not have much to do with the same level of components most of us use from those same brands....


yeah but that thing's got a deore drivetrain and hayes disks. for 299. i paid ~600 US for my hardrock and all i got were shitty acera and tektros.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Those don't look like Deore cranks in the picture... methinks Deore Drivetrain means its got a deore rear derailleur and everything else is significantly lower quality. A couple years ago the Sportschek line of stores in canada (similar in store type to Target) which incidently is the Iron Horse distributor for canada, had a brand called Tribal, which at least for their full suspension frames, were basically relabeled Kona Stinky's (same factory in taiwan made both brands). The bike sold complete for like $700 cdn at a time the US dollar was still worth about 50% more than the cdn dollar (its worth like 10% more currently), with a FULL deore group with the exception of the hubset (formula). Included was a Judy C fork, beefy parts, a DH strength (and weight) wheelset and tires, stem, bar, post, and saddle. Essentially budget freeride configuration. Now that was an amazing deal.


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## revmonkey (Jun 5, 2005)

you canadian? i am


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2006)

one of the reviewers on the link from the original post is five ten two forty five.

whoa.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Those don't look like Deore cranks in the picture... methinks Deore Drivetrain means its got a deore rear derailleur and everything else is significantly lower quality. A couple years ago the Sportschek line of stores in canada (similar in store type to Target) which incidently is the Iron Horse distributor for canada, had a brand called Tribal, which at least for their full suspension frames, were basically relabeled Kona Stinky's (same factory in taiwan made both brands). The bike sold complete for like $700 cdn at a time the US dollar was still worth about 50% more than the cdn dollar (its worth like 10% more currently), with a FULL deore group with the exception of the hubset (formula). Included was a Judy C fork, beefy parts, a DH strength (and weight) wheelset and tires, stem, bar, post, and saddle. Essentially budget freeride configuration. Now that was an amazing deal.


They look like some sort of Truvativ crank, probably 5D or lower. Still not too bad of a crank.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Just found the website for Forge bikes. They are exclusively available through target online. The site has some better pictures, though their spec listings are pretty vague. If the actual spec of the bike is true to the pictures, it is even more impressive. The fork is a Manitou Axel, which isn't great is certainly better than any other bike in that price range. The wheels appear to have WTB rims and IRC Mythos tires. The website actually says it has Avid disc brakes, but even if they are actually Hayes, that is still amazing. Now I am getting kinda worried, I almost thing these might be halfway ok. They still only come in one size though.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Now I am really pissed. I was looking at the picture of the Forge even more and realized the frame looks an awful lot like an Iron Horse Warrior. Sure enough when I went to the IH website, that was confirmed. Even the parts spec is pretty much identical to the IH Warrior Comp. This really bothers me since I am work for a shop that carries Iron Horse (maybe not for long once I tell the owner). I am definately going to see about giving them a call and see what they have to say about undercutting their own dealers by allowing Target to sell these.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I'd been wondering how long it would take the general public to catch onto this sort of thing. I think we can all agree that the cheap Walmart bikes of today are still infinitely superior than Walmart bikes 20 years ago.


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## WarriorPro (Jun 12, 2006)

As a long time Iron Horse supporter, this kind of thing really bothers me. I have had a slowly building suspicion that Iron Horse products were actually department store frames with pretty solid components hanging off them. I really hope this is not the case. If anyone else has any info on this striking similarity, please share. :madman:


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## Blendthree (Feb 10, 2006)

Trying to set up a bike test of the Iron Horse Warrior Pro for the August issue of Mountain Bike Tales but their brand manager ( Todd Seplavy) seems awful non-compliant about the concept. Our magazine will likely purchase a model for the test and share the results here.


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## Jasko (May 9, 2006)

Well, It seems that companies are trying to sell thru channels that have massive customer base. Maybe we will see Ibex selling at Costco. On the manufacturing side, they can move production from Taiwan to China and use cheap transportation and distribution channels. Obviously, selling couple bikes from a LBS is not the most efficient way.
Now, I think that some people will be happy:
- Customers getting mid-quality bike for low price,
- Manufacturer selling large number of bikes,
- More bikes in the community, healthier people,
- A lot of upgrades and maintainence for LBS (my impression is that manufacturer probably cut some corners to reduce cost).
Probably LBS will be affected for a short time, but I wonder if they make any money selling $300 bike anyway.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Jasko said:


> Well, It seems that companies are trying to sell thru channels that have massive customer base. Maybe we will see Ibex selling at Costco. On the manufacturing side, they can move production from Taiwan to China and use cheap transportation and distribution channels. Obviously, selling couple bikes from a LBS is not the most efficient way.
> Now, I think that some people will be happy:
> - Customers getting mid-quality bike for low price,
> - Manufacturer selling large number of bikes,
> ...


I'll bet Target makes maybe $50 off each of those bikes. Without actually having to assemble and service these items, that $50 would not be bad for merely acting as another intermediary. I would bet that bike, if it is made by Iron Horse, costs them maybe $175-200. They manufacturuer certainly does not see the same profit margin they do when sold to dealers, but the volume is way up and they do not have to worry about breaking bulk.


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## 古強者死神 (May 12, 2006)

While yes it definitly sucks for sombody like yourself bikerboy who may own or work in a shop, this is great for people who want to ride and need a quality bike with a low budget. We are one big biker family who has one universal and common goal "to ride" right? I had to break the bank to get my piranha and it really sucks as thats money that could have gone to a house, credit cards, the kids ect.. but there simply was not much of a bike below that price range that intrested me or I thought was worth the money.

So while you may be somwhat frightened about this I think its a great thing, it would only take your very bottem end, any enthusiast will definitly still be buying the higher end bikes and parts and not touch this bike. Its just a great way for a beginer to get into the sport at a beginer price and not have to visit the ICU when there walmart bike frame snaps in half and impales them.

If anything it may bring more people into the sport, and thus increase your business when they out grow the bike, its also a bad thing when sombody has to drop 700$ for a half way decent bike to find out they dont like the sport, or dont have the time/abliity for it.

So I will be the odd one out and say good for Target, and good for the bike economy.


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## Spoon Man (Apr 17, 2006)

Schwinn sold out to Wal-Mart.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

By selling in box, direct to consumers, they save a ton. Big warehouse full of boxes, maybe 10 employees. Send them all over the country from one spot, much cheaper. Saves on multiple warehouse locations, multiple employees, etc. No big customer support network, just some minimum wage telephone answerer to say, "well sir, you should really take it to a bike shop if you don't know what's wrong, remember, you did pay 3 bills for something that costs 6 elsewhere" That's where I come in, I own a shop, and what is it that shops do better than the Walmarts of the world? Build and service bikes. Time to suck it up, and realize the world is changing. Best thing to do is be friendly to those with crappy bikes. educate them about why we do it better, and hook them up as best we can, so they can love the sport. Sell them a magazine while they are in the shop, tell them where the local trails are, and fix their busted derailleur hanger 2 months later. See how long it takes before they come back in, looking for a bike helmet, or tire, or new, more expensive higher end bike, like the one they saw in that magazine. We need to stop being so reactionary about every low end bike sale we lose. Be realistic, how much do you make on that $350 bike sale? Maybe the bike costs $240, pay someone to put it together, there goes 10-15 bucks, stock it on the floor for 3 months, that you pay rent on, call it another 15 to 20 bucks, pay another employee to stand there till somone is interested in it, another 15 to 20 bucks. So now, the original whopping $110, goes down to under $75. Take you average cheapo walmart bike, no overhead, at all, customer walks in, give you $50 (average tune up cost) and your $8 and hour employee spends half an hour wiping dust off, filling tires, lubing chain, and making a few minor adjustments. Now I ask you, where is the money at? I make more money on POS bikes in a week, than I do selling nice ones. Yeah Target, keep bringing them on! I particularly like the "dual braking system" and the "built for refined paths" crap. Wow Mom, I want that one, it's got dual braking=


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## Mtc (Jun 9, 2004)

Hey biker boy, this should pump up your service dept. The build on it will be crap and they will be coming to you for adjustments and repairs in short order. I know how it sucks when those Magnas come in for repairs so maybe this will be better.
One of my previous builders started at walmat building bikes, he got $2 a bike and wasn't allowed to use grease. He built a solid bike at our standards every 45 min to 1 hr, at Wally he built 16 and hour! 
They prolly will just barely function off the floor.


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## hallin222 (Oct 13, 2005)

Hey, Aaron (bikerboy). You know how I've been taking about picking up a cheap hardtail frame to build up a budget SS with the fork, wheelset, bars, stem seatpost, saddle, grips, etc that I now have laying around the garage............. Well, this Forge might just be the solution I was looking for. How offended would James be if I picked one of these bikes up and came to see you guys for some SS cranks, a tensioner, and a rear gear spacer kit of some sort?

This may not even be a possibility if the frames are only offered in one size (probably 17-18"), but if I can get a 21", I might just do it.

Ian


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

I think the whole 1 size fits all issue is the biggest shortcoming of this (and all department store) bikes. Joe-consumer thinks if you can adjust the seat height, that is all that matters. Most of us know that fit is more important than what parts are on it.


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## aliensporebomb (Feb 2, 2004)

I took a peek at the weight involved: 37 pounds. That sucker is going to be
like lugging an old school Schwinn Varsity up the climbs although it will go
like hell on the downhills. Pray that those disc brakes actually work when 
you come within inches of some 40 foot drop or something.

The biggest problem is that it LOOKS cool and superficially looks like
a more expensive ride. So, you're going to get guys buying these going 
to mountain biking areas to ride and riding them like the more expensive 
bikes and potentially you could see people getting hurt what with the 
"high assembly standards" you see in department store bikes (hah).

I'll stick with my Epic. That's a mountain bike.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

hallin222 said:


> Hey, Aaron (bikerboy). You know how I've been taking about picking up a cheap hardtail frame to build up a budget SS with the fork, wheelset, bars, stem seatpost, saddle, grips, etc that I now have laying around the garage............. Well, this Forge might just be the solution I was looking for. How offended would James be if I picked one of these bikes up and came to see you guys for some SS cranks, a tensioner, and a rear gear spacer kit of some sort?
> 
> This may not even be a possibility if the frames are only offered in one size (probably 17-18"), but if I can get a 21", I might just do it.
> 
> Ian


It appears its a one-size offering. It looks like a 17or 18 in the photo.


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## burtronix (Jun 5, 2006)

WarriorPro said:


> As a long time Iron Horse supporter, this kind of thing really bothers me. I have had a slowly building suspicion that Iron Horse products were actually department store frames with pretty solid components hanging off them. I really hope this is not the case. If anyone else has any info on this striking similarity, please share. :madman:


I just bought an IH Warrior "Team SE" at Dick's Sporting Goods for $299. Hard-Tail, Hayes brakes, Rock Shox J1 fork, Deore drive train. Looking at the IH website, the "Team SE" is not listed, & none of the Warrior hard-tails are equiped this way. I don't think this is a department store frame. It's light & strong. I think they can sell at these low prices for the big-box stores by moving volume.

One advantage of buying at Dick's rather than Target, is that Dick's actually has a "mechanic" on staff. He didn't quite get the setup right when he built my bike, but I just bit my tongue & fixed it when I got home. Lets see how he reacts when I take it back for the free 30-day tune-up & the setup is better than where he set it. Probably won't even notice. I'll probably have to fix it again when I get back home.


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## EliM (May 6, 2006)

The target bike probalby has 2-3 good parts to make it look nice, and then everything else is crappy to cut costs. 
The bike you got from your LBS would be assembled much better than any department store bike, anyway.
I'll keep riding my c-dale


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## Sunju (Sep 4, 2004)

Guys, I live in Shenzhen China. The Iron horse factory is about 45 minutes from my office, in a town called either Gong Ming or Shao Jing, I am not sure which. This area has more than 36 different factories that make only frames. Some are small, and some stretch for the equilivant of a few city blocks. They also have others that manufacture all the parts that go on them. Not all the trucks that leave this same factory have Iron horse boxes in them, but the bikes were built on the same line. Also, it is possible that in different markets, they are different brand names. Like Minolta the camera company, sold the same cameras under different brand names in different regions. Maxxum in North America, Dynax in Europe, and Alpha in Asia.(This point is moot, now that Sony owns the comapny). The Walmart down the street from me sales complete bikes for less than $20. You can go to the TruVanti factory in Long Hua and buy parts out front, for ...not gonna kill the goose. Of course they would love to sell every bike they make for $1,000, but that ain't gonna happen. If they can move 70% more at 1/3 the price, they will. Because even at $300, they are making money, when their cost is a fraction of that.


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## hallin222 (Oct 13, 2005)

aliensporebomb said:


> I took a peek at the weight involved: 37 pounds.


That's the 'shipping weight' which includes the weigh of the cardboard box, all packing material, and whatever else they may throw in ther like an owner's manual or something. I'd bet that the bike alone wieghs more around the 31-32 pound mark if equipped as bikerboy suggests. Still hefty for an aluminum hardtail, but similar to others in that price range, I believe.


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## brozek (Aug 17, 2005)

Spoon Man said:


> Schwinn sold out to Wal-Mart.


What an insightful and meaningful addition to the conversation! 

The newest issue of Bicycle Retailer had a story about the bike department in the Wal-mart concept store in Plano, TX. The bikes are mostly the same, but they're set up in a separate, walled-off area (think electronics section) with POP displays and a separate service desk.

It makes me wonder whether a middle range of bike customer is emerging - one who is intimidated by bike shops and thinks they don't need a "race bike", but still wants something more than a $100 rigid mtb. This is a market that shops should be able to cater to, but IMO, there's an image and perception problem that they run into that keeps many potential customers away. It's, for the most part, a mistaken perception, but that doesn't make it any less real.


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## lindamarkas (Jun 1, 2006)

*hi i think this is best brand names?*

Keep in mind just because a brand name is present, that it may not have much to do with the same level of components most of us use from those same brands....

hi i think this is best brand names, keep in mind just becuase a brand name is present,
that it may not have much to do with the same level of components most of us use from those same brnds.....:madmax:

visit me this site

http://www.redtagdeals.com/online-coupons-rebates.php?merid=2914


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## CraigH (Dec 22, 2003)

bikerboy said:


> Just found the website for Forge bikes.


http://www.forgebikes.com/


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## ET_SoCal (Jul 1, 2003)

*The issue is:*

_Most_ people that purchase from Wall-Tar-Whatever...
Don't do a thing to the bike, except ride it on the sidewalk, maybe the local "bike path".
Oh, they might lower the seat if it has a quick-release.
Never lube the chain, never fill the tires with air (unless they go 100% flat), never do any kind of maintenance to the bike at all (Themselves).
I'm sure a small percentage will eventually take the bike to a local shop for something (like lower the quick release seat for them, maybe fill the tires with air), then two, three years later they will sell it at their yard sale for $20, then go buy another Dept Store Bike.


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## smw (Jun 22, 2005)

bikerboy said:


> I thought about posting this in the "what bike to buy" forum, but decided this would be better. I don't think I want people going out any buying these since I seriously have to doubt the quality on a bike this cheap. For $299, it comes with Manitou fork (not sure which one), Deore 27 speed drivetrain, and Hayes mechanical disc brakes. That seems impossible. That is way less than dealer cost on a similarly spec'd bike. I wonder how many 4 year old Cambodian children it takes to build one of these.
> 
> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.htm...0?_encoding=UTF8&frombrowse=1&asin=B000E3WW5Y


 Just remember, costs are being cut from something to keep prices down. So I would say the wheels and frame are very questionable. The warning label probably states, " this bike not intended for off road use".

Sean


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## brozek (Aug 17, 2005)

ET_SoCal said:


> _Most_ people that purchase from Wall-Tar-Whatever...
> Don't do a thing to the bike, except ride it on the sidewalk, maybe the local "bike path".
> Oh, they might lower the seat if it has a quick-release.
> Never lube the chain, never fill the tires with air (unless they go 100% flat), never do any kind of maintenance to the bike at all (Themselves).
> I'm sure a small percentage will eventually take the bike to a local shop for something (like lower the quick release seat for them, maybe fill the tires with air), then two, three years later they will sell it at their yard sale for $20, then go buy another Dept Store Bike.


I don't doubt that this is most of the department store bike market. Can we agree that, whatever a bike shop does, it isn't going to sell bikes to these customers? That they're just too price-conscious and function-ignorant to appreciate what they get for a bike shop price?

At the same time, though, there must be a second type of department store bike customer - one, I think, that could be convinced to pay a higher price for a better product with the right argument. What's that argument? More importantly, is that argument harder to make when there are bikes like the one in the original post available?


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## wesd (Apr 18, 2006)

I have a general distrust for salespeople; bike sales are a few stops ahead of car dealers. I've had the following experience at the 2 LBS's here:

1 - Specialized store: guy seemed like a creep; tried to sell me a FS that had severe bob, said I wouldn't mind it out on the trail, etc. Told me there is no markup in the sale of bikes.

2 - Giant store: guys are nice; told me that Specialized sucks and that Giant is the best bike for the $$, each time I visit tell me they will give me a killer deal on the bike (less than the "sticker" price but never tell me what that price will be so I have no idea what to expect. Would like to give them my biz but hate the pricing schemes....

MY point is that there is a huge market for upscale retailers to get into bikes; Costco, Target, and (gasp) Walmart. They have prices marked, no one expects service, and their bikes are much better than the Huffys' and Murrays' of 1990. 

I even considered buying a Schwinn @ Target to keep at my dad's house for use when I visit. Looks like my next bike will be an Ibex, and that would be completely awesome if Costco sold them.


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## Jasko (May 9, 2006)

If Jack from Ibex is reading this -- they could sell at Costco some models: Alpine 350 (entry level), Alpine 550 (entry level w/disk brakes), Ignition-1 (entry level FS) and maybe B-27 to raise some brows for people who want upscale city/trail bike. Now, that might put a stress on his ability to support Costco customers (they tend to spend more, but easily return things if they don't work right away, they usually do not call product support line).


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

brozek said:


> I don't doubt that this is most of the department store bike market. Can we agree that, whatever a bike shop does, it isn't going to sell bikes to these customers? That they're just too price-conscious and function-ignorant to appreciate what they get for a bike shop price?
> 
> At the same time, though, there must be a second type of department store bike customer - one, I think, that could be convinced to pay a higher price for a better product with the right argument. What's that argument? More importantly, is that argument harder to make when there are bikes like the one in the original post available?


Right on the money! To the previous poster though, with the right amount of local buzz, say , cheap tune-up's for cheap bikes, that don't include a cleaning (time consuming, for no benefit), but get a full mechanical run through, for safety and functions sake. This sort of thing builds not only future clientelle, but lets them know that bike shops are not just for bike nuts, but we can make their bike ride better too. I make a major amount of my income doing work on crappy bikes,(the other portion is off high end, so I get the full Ying and Yang) and the kids run in packs, so one tells the next, tells the next, etc. "Mom, Jimmy got his bike fixed at the shop, and now it's quiet, the brakes work, and the tire isn't falling off". Money is money, and cheap bikes often can be made better with a hammer, a crescent wrench, a pump, lube, and 20 minutes of your time. Shops need to stop being elitist about what they fix. I'm honest, if it's too far gone, I'll tell you, and usually, they head to Wally world to get another, cause mine cost too much, but maybe not. Regardless, they will be back for flat repair, or cheapy tune up, cause I treated them with respect. With businesses failing all over the place, and gas being ever more expensive, grab the trend, bike shops that cater to ALL bikers, will win in the long run.

As to the right message fro the second type of rider, not sure, since price is the primary motivation. But treating them well, getting them in the door, and letting them see what more would get them, cannot hurt=


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

seems pretty obvious to me that target is cutting cost by not stocking 4 or 5 different sizes. If you happen to ride that size bike it looks like a killer deal; maybe it's not in perfect working order, but with deore components at least it can be made to work, unlike most of the bikes target sells. Of course if it doesn't happen to fit it's worthless. Same deal at Costco, I've seen a couple serviceable bikes there, but none came in sizes. 

The idea of a mid-range market... Most toy-bikes I see kids riding these days are "full suspension" (i.e., they have a decorative, non-functional rear shock), I could see the Target shopper thinking this bike is overpriced because you can get a rear shock for less, right?


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## EliM (May 6, 2006)

The average shopper thinks he/she can get a way better deal at Walmart than at the LBS.
$500 HT vs $70 FS.
Most toy-size kid bikes I see today have rear suspension and a Triple clamp fork, and no matter how hard they try, the small child will not get the suspension to move at all. And if they're heavy enough to activate the suspension, they would probably get seasick from the bouncing.


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## hallin222 (Oct 13, 2005)

Read about Carver's 24" 'Kid' bikes here. There from up around my old stompin' ground (Maine) before I moved to Austin. They make a pretty good point about the 2:1 rider to bike weight ratio of most cheap kids bikes. If my bike weighed half what I did, I'd be pedalling around on a 105+ pound bike!!!

Ian

*EDIT*

Sorry, I forgot the link

http://www.carverbikes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7&Itemid=12


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## ET_SoCal (Jul 1, 2003)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> ...cheap bikes often can be made better with a hammer...


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

It may be good, but I say stay away from anything from target. I am pretty sure the fork is a manitou{I think its a splice} which is really good, and the components rock for the price{you buy all those components separetly and it will cost you about the same} but who knows what the frame is. I reccomend you go for last years mark down at a store like jensonusa.com or similar. I am however going to go back on my word and reccomend you get it, for the price I dont really think you can go wrong, if the frame sucks, get a new one from jenson. Just my opinion. Specilaized rocks @$$ by the way.


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

I thought I recognized that frame{I almost bought an iron horse warrior{weird}}. I thought the frame was 15? I may also get this bike{maybe}cuz it looks like someone in my family will be needing one soon{then I will steal all its components and put them on my rockhopper{or just use the other bike}}????


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

http://shopping.msn.com/Reviews/shp/?itemId=386262820

That bike is mine. It is basically a new ride for my mom{she needs one to ride alongside old dad} and at the same time a complete revamp and upgrade for my bike, almost for free! Dont know whether I will transfer the components, but either way, its almost assuredly mine.


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## delsol (Apr 28, 2006)

Anyone figure out the size of the frame yet? I tried to call Forge but the only phone number they have is a fax number. I also emailed Target and they have no Idea of the frame size.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

delsol said:


> Anyone figure out the size of the frame yet? I tried to call Forge but the only phone number they have is a fax number. I also emailed Target and they have no Idea of the frame size.


And this is why one should not purchase a bike from a big box retailer. They can't even tell you basic information on the product. This is information needed to achieve the most important thing of buying a bicycle, the fit.


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## ska todd (Jan 2, 2003)

Guys, y'all need to settle down w/ the speculation here. This bike is not mfgr'd by Iron Horse Bicycles or World Wide Cycle Supply.

My guess is that this bike is made by a factory who also does business with Iron Horse and sold them frames and components that are similar to ours. As Sunju mentioned, Iron Horse (and others) manufacture A LOT of bikes in Shenzhen area of China as well as in Kunshan, China. Factories that build for Iron Horse also build for Giant, Trek, Specialized, Raleigh, Diamondback, Norco, Flyte, etc. When it comes to an entry level hardtail bike there are only so many ways to skin a cat.

In regards to Blendthree's request for a test bike for his "Mountain Bike Tale's" site, Iron Horse receives a lot of requests for test bikes from all different types of media outlets all around the world. We have to ration out our test bikes and time for this. We go with mags and media that have the most exposure, best track record, image and appeal of our brand & demographic, etc. I'm not exactly a noob when it comes to the online bike scene and neither myself nor anyone else here at Iron Horse, or a couple other people I had fwd'd your site to had even heard of it.

-ska todd


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## aliensporebomb (Feb 2, 2004)

So it's a mystery hardtail designed to look like an Iron Horse but isn't.

I wonder if someone will order one just to see if it is rideable?

Someone at RBR bought one of the cheap target roadies...


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

I did, I left a message and a very helpful guy called back. He said the frame is a 19.5 and is gonna email me the specs. Said that the fork is an axel comp and the brakes are avids. I think Im gonna get this bike. He also said that they are a new company who is trying to erase the old stereotype that big box bikes suck{they do}. He told me that the bike wheighs about 30 lbs{not bad} and that he rides it. Go to their website and click the contact button, and a number comes up. It seems to have trouble so try it a couple of times. This could be a massive scam, but it could also be an honest bargain that could really benefit the industry, personally I wish I had known about them earlier. He also said that the bike comes almost completely assembled.


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## bikefun (Jun 15, 2006)

*I bought a Forge*

Hi all,

It is true. I was a fairly skeptical as well, but I still went ahead and bought one. The partiular model I bought was the Sawback 5xx,,, Yes it is amazing: Shimano DEORE M511 Shifters and rear drl. Suspension is Manitou, with WTB Saddle, the frame is all aluminum, full geometry, well spec'ed for the price! For the record their website is forgebikes.com. All the best....


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Ska Todd,

So answer me this: Does Iron Horse own the frame design on the Warrior hardtail? If so, I would think that you might be interested in knowing that the factory in which your bikes are built is selling identical frames to Forge Bikes. You cannot deny the frames are identical (not similar), at least if you assume the bike represented on Forge's website is the actual bike. Check the dropout design and headtube/gusset area, they are the same. Plus, if the Forge bike's are all 19.5 frame sizes, that indicates the geometry might also be identical since IH offers that same size. Not many manufacturers sell bikes in half-inch sizes.


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

So tell me bike fun, I am looking at buying this thing. What model is the manitou axel?{elite, platinum, comp} What features does the fork have and how well does it work? What are the brakes and what are the rims? How much does the thing wheigh? If you could gather this info for me, it would be very much appreciated!


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## ska todd (Jan 2, 2003)

bikerboy said:


> So answer me this: Does Iron Horse own the frame design on the Warrior hardtail? If so, I would think that you might be interested in knowing that the factory in which your bikes are built is selling identical frames to Forge Bikes. You cannot deny the frames are identical (not similar), at least if you assume the bike represented on Forge's website is the actual bike. Check the dropout design and headtube/gusset area, they are the same. Plus, if the Forge bike's are all 19.5 frame sizes, that indicates the geometry might also be identical since IH offers that same size. Not many manufacturers sell bikes in half-inch sizes.


Without seeing the frame in person, making measurements, etc I cannot positively say if it is identical to a Warrior frame or not. There are a bunch of similar tubing designs, dropouts, etc available in China for frame production so it is posible that it is a copy of the popular Warrior frame. There is not as much proprietary technology that goes into a Warrior frame (unlike say the Yakuza hardtail or upcoming Sachem hardtail and hence the slightly higher price tag on those models).

Iron Horse manufactures the Warrior frame at a couple different factories for sale in different countries. It is quite possible that the frame was poached by a factory for use by Forge/Target but I do not want to pass judgement until I see it with my own eyes and know the circumstances. I am looking into it for sure.

If anyone who has one of these bikes can PM me the serial # on the bike I'd appreciate it.

-ska todd


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## Blendthree (Feb 10, 2006)

ska todd said:


> In regards to Blendthree's request for a test bike for his "Mountain Bike Tale's" site, Iron Horse receives a lot of requests for test bikes from all different types of media outlets all around the world. We have to ration out our test bikes and time for this. We go with mags and media that have the most exposure, best track record, image and appeal of our brand & demographic, etc. I'm not exactly a noob when it comes to the online bike scene and neither myself nor anyone else here at Iron Horse, or a couple other people I had fwd'd your site to had even heard of it.
> 
> -ska todd


Perfectly understandable, as you may suspect we, like Iron Horse, are in a process of steady growth. Despite two years of existence, I am certain that there are immense numbers of those who have not heard of us. All we can judge our success by is through those who have. Some companies seem more than grateful for the exposure, others explain that their media bikes are booked for the entire year. In this particular situation reader inquiries actually prompted my request, I suspect we'll attempt to demo the Warrior SE for a future issue. In the meantime we'll be reviewing the KHS AM1000 in July, the Ventana X-5 for August, and the Moots Cinco for September.


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## SlimTwisted (Jun 14, 2006)

Dirt Bringer said:


> I did, I left a message and a very helpful guy called back.


I have been trying to call the support number listed on the site- Turns out that's a fax number (all I'm getting is an ear ache). Anyone successfully get in contact with this company? They have no email address listed either.

PS- Nice digi-zine BlendThree, Iron Horse's loss.


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## delsol (Apr 28, 2006)

I sent a fax to Force and recevied a call the next day from mike who was very helpful he called when I was not at home so he left a message and called back a couple hrs later when I was home. The fork is a answer manitou axel comp 80mm the brakes are hays mx2 the frame is 19.5 he was not sure of the weight he said around 31lbs. Decore shifters and rear derailleur avilo front derailleur. Mike also said if I was not happy with the bike I can return it to a local Target for a refund.


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## ska todd (Jan 2, 2003)

delsol, can you PM me the serial number from your Force bike?

-ska todd


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## miSSionary (Jun 29, 2005)

bikerboy said:


> Now I am really pissed. I was looking at the picture of the Forge even more and realized the frame looks an awful lot like an Iron Horse Warrior. Sure enough when I went to the IH website, that was confirmed. Even the parts spec is pretty much identical to the IH Warrior Comp. This really bothers me since I am work for a shop that carries Iron Horse (maybe not for long once I tell the owner). I am definately going to see about giving them a call and see what they have to say about undercutting their own dealers by allowing Target to sell these.


Ha ha, I did research on a North Face bike (almost like the one at the begining of the post) and thought the bike was not bad and my buddy (a non-rider) wanted to buy it from a Pawn Shop for under $100. I started researching and found the frame to be made by IH as well, it also had a Mars MZ on it and disk michanicals. :thumbsup:


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## miSSionary (Jun 29, 2005)

WarriorPro said:


> As a long time Iron Horse supporter, this kind of thing really bothers me. I have had a slowly building suspicion that Iron Horse products were actually department store frames with pretty solid components hanging off them. I really hope this is not the case. If anyone else has any info on this striking similarity, please share. :madman:


See my post above, Iron Horse also does the North Face frames.


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## bikefun (Jun 15, 2006)

Dirt B, Forge Bikes are impressive... The Fork is Manitou AXEL COMP, (Checkout Manitou Answer site). Works great, just got done some trails and light rock navigating. The brakes are Hayes MX2's and the rims are WTB SpeedDisc, the weight is I think just under 32 . For the SPECS/money and ride I recommend this Forge Bikes... Go for it, tell me how you make out.


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## miSSionary (Jun 29, 2005)

smw said:


> Just remember, costs are being cut from something to keep prices down. So I would say the wheels and frame are very questionable. The warning label probably states, " this bike not intended for off road use".
> 
> Sean


Of course costs are being cut...IT'S UNDER $300!! Well the warning label on my Trek Fuel 100 said it was not meant to race...:nono:


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## miSSionary (Jun 29, 2005)

delsol said:


> Anyone figure out the size of the frame yet? I tried to call Forge but the only phone number they have is a fax number. I also emailed Target and they have no Idea of the frame size.


Go to Target with a tape measure, or go...and use target's tape measure??


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## rg32 (Apr 16, 2006)

Another nasty bike rumor, you should do your home work first
Its not a Warrior, but rather the lower cost IH Outlaw.


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## ska todd (Jan 2, 2003)

rg32 said:


> Another nasty bike rumor, you should do your home work first
> Its not a Warrior, but rather the lower cost IH Outlaw.


This bike is NOT an Iron Horse at all nor mfgr'd by Iron Horse's sister company World Wide Cycle Supply.

-ska todd


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## HighCascadeBiker (Aug 7, 2006)

*another twist to the story.....*

hey guys, i am actually thinking of buying the Forge Sawback 5XX because my FS bike was stolen while living in Denver over a year ago....and currently finances don't allow me to buy an expensive one from my LBS. I am going nutty not being able to ride!!! LOL

Anyways....to make the topic more complex......I did some research and I found on Amazon.com as well as a few other sites, the "true" manufacturer of the Forge bikes is listed as Giant Bicycles! Is it possible that Giant is now manufacturing a cheaper brand of bikes called Forge to appeal to a broader consumer base?

If this bike is in fact made by Giant and has a Giant frame......it actually looks VERY similar in geometry to the frame on the XTC......then it is a hell of a deal, especially since you can always upgrade all of the components as you get cash.

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/030.000.000/030.000.006.asp?model=11265

What do you think? :madman:


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## Call_me_Clyde (Oct 27, 2004)

*Probably not*

This is probably another instance of Giant being the OEM for Forge frames, much like they do for a number of other bike companies. With Giant recently severing ties with big box stores like Performance to focus on smaller LBS, it's highly unlikely they would make a new Giant line of bikes for someone like Target.

Stranger things have happened though.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Parts are listed*

...at the Forge website. For those wishing to find total crap parts, think again. They're all fairly standard and off roadable low end components.

http://www.forgebikes.com/


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## mtnnate (Jan 2, 2003)

I guess I know where I'm getting the rest of the parts for my "dog/kids rides" Single Speed now.
Then I can recoup a little from selling the parts I don't need.

WHY ARE MOUNTAIN BIKERS SO CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder when target will start selling Chinese cars...


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## mtnnate (Jan 2, 2003)

Giant makes frames for many many other companies. The company probably produces somewhere near 30% of the frames out there. Trek also manufactures tons of "other" branded frames as well.

- and I'm sure Shinju can confirm this along with all of the other bike industry peeps who've ever been to Taiwan or China.

Don't worry- it doesn't mean your Giant (or mine) is a peice of crap now.


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## BigRingBash (Jun 15, 2006)

I read in Bike retailer magazine that Wall-mart and other department stores are currently introducing "Pro" shops for their sporting goods departments. In the super wallmarts they are breaking each sporting good section up into it's own mini store. The bike department was stocked full of stuff from WTB, Canari, and other bigger name stuff. Sold Kenda tubes/tires, had some qualified mechanics etc, just like a bike shop, and carried all the bikes Schwinn makes, even the higher end models. So if they impliment this into all super wallmarts the bike industry could be in trouble. All it would take is a big brand to jump on board outsource every thing even assembly and wammo bike shops are history, just like small mom and pop stores Wall-mart has been destroying for years. Then Target and other department stores will do similar things and bikes will be cheap! Good for the consumer, bad for the local bike shops. So we all have a choice here. Pay a "little"more and keep the "little" guy open. Here in my town the textile plants outsourced everything and the mill workers were pissed but they all shop at Wall Mart for everything, not knowing that Wall Mart is what drove the textile companies overseas. They drive the manufacturers down to bare dollars, so they have to make it as cheap as possible. China and other countries will build stuff at any price just to take the work.


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## MTBJay (Jul 7, 2006)

BigRingBash said:


> I read in Bike retailer magazine that Wall-mart and other department stores are currently introducing "Pro" shops for their sporting goods departments. In the super wallmarts they are breaking each sporting good section up into it's own mini store. The bike department was stocked full of stuff from WTB, Canari, and other bigger name stuff. Sold Kenda tubes/tires, had some qualified mechanics etc, just like a bike shop, and carried all the bikes Schwinn makes, even the higher end models. So if they impliment this into all super wallmarts the bike industry could be in trouble. All it would take is a big brand to jump on board outsource every thing even assembly and wammo bike shops are history, just like small mom and pop stores Wall-mart has been destroying for years. Then Target and other department stores will do similar things and bikes will be cheap! Good for the consumer, bad for the local bike shops. So we all have a choice here. Pay a "little"more and keep the "little" guy open. Here in my town the textile plants outsourced everything and the mill workers were pissed but they all shop at Wall Mart for everything, not knowing that Wall Mart is what drove the textile companies overseas. They drive the manufacturers down to bare dollars, so they have to make it as cheap as possible. China and other countries will build stuff at any price just to take the work.


I'm not sure if you were just reading what you wanted to hear (or maybe what you didn't want to hear) into the article, but my understanding of the BRAIN story is that this is just a change of displays for Wal-mart - they're not carrying stuff from IBD manufacturers or any Schwinn/Mongoose bikes they don't already have.


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2006)

Mtc said:


> Hey biker boy, this should pump up your service dept. The build on it will be crap and they will be coming to you for adjustments and repairs in short order. I know how it sucks when those Magnas come in for repairs so maybe this will be better.
> One of my previous builders started at walmat building bikes, he got $2 a bike and wasn't allowed to use grease. He built a solid bike at our standards every 45 min to 1 hr, at Wally he built 16 and hour!
> They prolly will just barely function off the floor.


When I had a gig like that, they issued me a "full set of bike tools".
I got a Park bike stand & an IMPACT WRENCH! 
You should see the training manuel


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## BigRingBash (Jun 15, 2006)

What I read had that info in it. I am not sure if it was Bike retailer or another article, but they were going to carry the full line of mongoose and schwinn bikes. Even the road stuff. Trying to make it more like Dick's Sporting Goods. Oh well, either way it is going to be interesting.


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## delsol (Apr 28, 2006)

HighCascadeBiker said:


> hey guys, i am actually thinking of buying the Forge Sawback 5XX because my FS bike was stolen while living in Denver over a year ago....and currently finances don't allow me to buy an expensive one from my LBS. I am going nutty not being able to ride!!! LOL
> 
> Anyways....to make the topic more complex......I did some research and I found on Amazon.com as well as a few other sites, the "true" manufacturer of the Forge bikes is listed as Giant Bicycles! Is it possible that Giant is now manufacturing a cheaper brand of bikes called Forge to appeal to a broader consumer base?
> 
> ...


where did you find the information that forge is made by Giant?


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## HighCascadeBiker (Aug 7, 2006)

On the Amazon.com site they list the manufacturor as Giant Bicycles and here is one of numerous sites that links to the Amazon site with them listed as the manufacturor as well...

http://www.firebottle.com/apf/apf_beta.cgi?Operation=ItemLookup&ItemId=B000E3U2F6

I dunno.


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## HighCascadeBiker (Aug 7, 2006)

Maybe this will be a case just like a Geo Metro car. The Geo Metro is just a toyota car that has a Geo body on it and nothing else is Geo. So basically when you look at it, people make fun of it and call it crap cuz they see the Geo part of it, when in reality it is just a toyota and a damn good car. 

Maybe Forge bikes are good bikes that are just "wrapped" with the Forge name and being sold cheap, just like toyota sold the Geo cheap. Just a thought.


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## f. carnivore (Jul 20, 2006)

Geos were sold by General Motors/Chevrolet. And they weren't all Toyotas--the Tracker and the Metro were made by Suzuki. The Prism was pretty much a Corolla though.


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## cbuchanan (May 18, 2004)

I wonder how their service is after the sale. Maintenance packages and such. Many shops offer at least a year of maintenance if not lifetime which comes in really handy for a newb that is still in the learning stages. If you know what you are doing it will not be a big deal at all, but what about the kid who "can't afford a bike from the LBS"? Can they afford any problems that usually come with a "department store bike"?  

Just my .02


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## hanshananigan (May 15, 2006)

The forge website clearly labels the components, the frame weight, how many jellybeans are in that jar at the five-n-dime, and the transponder frequency of Bin Laudin's GPS cell phone. Ok, so maybe the frame weight wasn't available...

I still think back with fondness about my ole Huffy bought at K-Mart in 2000. 21-speed aluminum hard-everything- put some slicks on that bad boy, and that was the most efficient, dependable commuter bike I could imagine. sold it in 2005 for half the $120 I spent for it. *sigh*


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

Bike mechanics score a ton of ass. tell him to go for it!


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## salimoneus (Oct 12, 2004)

how about the FS model for $349 ...

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.htm...3?_encoding=UTF8&frombrowse=1&asin=B000E3U2GK


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## jimbo2k (Dec 31, 2003)

*bikerboy*

"Hey biker boy, this should pump up your service dept. The build on it will be crap and they will be coming to you for adjustments and repairs in short order. I know how it sucks when those Magnas come in for repairs so maybe this will be better.
One of my previous builders started at walmat building bikes, he got $2 a bike and wasn't allowed to use grease. He built a solid bike at our standards every 45 min to 1 hr, at Wally he built 16 and hour!"
I, too build bikes at a local home and auto store. Been doing it for 11 years as a part time, stressbuster. I am paid hourly, not by the bike. The company supplies a Park stand, and a complete set of Park tools, down to Pedal taps and freewheel removers. I build the bikes on the sales floor in plain view, which they believe is good for business. Even using power tools sixteen bikes per hour is a stretch. One bike every fifteen minutes is a hard pace to maintain, as one in every three needs a wheel trued or the fork stretched from shipping damage. 12" and 16" take the most time as they have many accessories that need to be installed. 24" and 26" seem to go together the fastest. I also must get the bikes from the stock room six at a time, merchandise them, and clean the area when I am done, and cut up the cartons and put them in the compactor. I read in a trade publication, that 45 bikes in an 8 hour shift was the worlds record at that time. Dont know if I would ride a bike made by someone doing 16 per hour? Jim


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## HighCascadeBiker (Aug 7, 2006)

*talked to Forge*

So I recently gave Forge a call and here is what I found out.....

The support guy I talked to said he rides the 5xx and is very pleased with it. He said he hasnt had any problems at all and rides it XC as well as some urban. The only two things he would change would be a new stem because he likes fixed stems instead of adjustable and possibly the front derail. He said the bike weighs roughly 30lbs when assembled and that they are so confident in the product that if I dont like it I can return it to target for a full refund.

As far as problems with the bike, he hasnt had any returns. He also mentioned that one person did not understand how to assemble the bike fully when they received it so Forge paid a local shop to assemble it for him.

I mentioned how everyone is talkin that the frame will snap and impale me in the chest when I am 20 miles out on my ride....(laughing) They said the frame is gaurenteed for life and if it ever cracked to contact them and they will replace it for free. All the other parts have a 1 year gaurentee. He couldnt tell me who makes the frame but he said it is made in the same factory overseas as the major companies.

Oh yeah, he mentioned he reads this forum and is amused at all the bashing and trash talking involved with thier bikes when all the people who talk trash never even stepped up to buy one or even try one out. Hehe......I thought that was funny.

He also said that they are a small company on the east coast and some of thier bikes are sold in smaller LBS in thier area. Target was a great deal for them because Target agreed to not make much profit off them so they could sell them cheap which allowed Forge to reach more customers. (I wonder how much more cash Giant or Trek could make if they sold in Target as well as LBS?)

Thats all the info I have for ya folks.


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## chris_nor_cal (Sep 20, 2005)

pimpbot said:


> ... I'm amazed they can build a functioning bicycle (loosely used) with gears, partially assemble it, stick it in a box, ship it (40-50 lbs worth in the box) to the US, assemble it, sell it at $60 and still make 30 points profit to the retailer.
> 
> Just think of the economy built up around that.


that really just blew my mind


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## keck99 (Aug 3, 2006)

so would it be a mistake to buy this as an entry level? I'm still learning as much as I can and was pretty set on Ibex 550, but why spend 200 more for similiar components (derailers same and all)? 

I'm 6'1'' 200lbs btw...I general, should a 19.5'' frame fit? 

I find the biggest problem right now is that I havn't owned a bike for... mmm 8 years (a huffy i'm sure) and I can't learn more about the sport without something in front of me.


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## Hemma (May 23, 2006)

Most people who rides department store bikes aren't doing 6 foot drops. Its like, would you drive a Kia small car in a rally? Probably not. The most department store bikes will see is maybe a little bit of kerb jumping and thats it. They're built that way, and really act as an intro for people getting into riding again. I've only just started riding not long ago, about 1 year now. And the thing is, I brought a Kmart bike to just start off, as its cheap, and it gets you from A to B without much problems. And its now just sitting there gathering dust. Cuz I got my Fort now and is very happy with it. Anyways, these dept. store bikes probably won't see more than a year's usage as their users will be riding something else already.


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## long hazy daze (Oct 19, 2005)

By the website. the Forge 5xx is equipped with
Manitou Axel
IRC tires
WTB Speed Disc rims
Truvativ IsoFlow cranks
Deore DT and shifters
WTB Pure V saddle
Hayes MX2's

So it looks like the only really **** parts that could be on there would be the bars, stem (it has an adjustable angle stem  ), hubs, seat post, pedals. 

Need a decent fork, drivetrain, wheels, tires, saddle, disc brakes? It'd be worth it just to strip the components.


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## WeWu (Jul 19, 2006)

delsol said:


> Anyone figure out the size of the frame yet? I tried to call Forge but the only phone number they have is a fax number. I also emailed Target and they have no Idea of the frame size.


Found the number 1866-265-9065
9:00am-5:00 pm est mon. - fri

Also looking at their warranty, it seems the bike comes with a lifetime warranty on the frame and 1year on the components. Not bad for a no name brand. Only thing is you have to pay for shipping the item back to them for warranty service, since they have no dealers.

Not a bad deal indeed, looking at the component spec that bike comes with comparable components to the rockhopper comp I just bought for more than double the price. All with the same warranty as specialized offers. Too bad it doesn't come in a womens model or I would definitely get one for my gf.


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## kevin6s (Jun 13, 2006)

Many comments here interest me so here's my two cents. 

Its important to realize that not everything mass produced in China is made equally, even when manufactured in the same factory. Unless they are doing identical runs, there are many variables that can be different, all the way down to the physical raw materials. From experience (my business is auto parts), I know for a fact there is a factory in China (an associate visited for a few days) that produces coilover sets (suspension products) for many companies - no name to highly recognized. Retail pricing for coilovers range anywhere from $600 to over $2000 depending on the brand. The company that sells the $2000 systems has strict guidelines for their products, all the way down to the raw metal that is used.

So yeah, the $600 system might be similar to the $2000 one, but they are no where near identical.


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## asm (Jul 21, 2006)

Target also always has 10% off coupons floating around. I just tried one and the bike would be $292 with shipping and tax included for me.


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## asm (Jul 21, 2006)

Has anyone else tried out this bike or know anymore about it than what's been posted?


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## Hemma (May 23, 2006)

you guys might also like to check out their refund policy as well... I don't know about the States, but here is Aust, usually if you purchase something from a department store, they can give you either a full refund or store credit as long as you have a receipt.


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## HighCascadeBiker (Aug 7, 2006)

*6 foot drops?*



Hemma said:


> Most people who rides department store bikes aren't doing 6 foot drops. Its like, would you drive a Kia small car in a rally? Probably not. The most department store bikes will see is maybe a little bit of kerb jumping and thats it. They're built that way, and really act as an intro for people getting into riding again. I've only just started riding not long ago, about 1 year now. And the thing is, I brought a Kmart bike to just start off, as its cheap, and it gets you from A to B without much problems. And its now just sitting there gathering dust. Cuz I got my Fort now and is very happy with it. Anyways, these dept. store bikes probably won't see more than a year's usage as their users will be riding something else already.


I just wanna say that if anyone buys the Forge Sawback 5xx and goes out and does 6 foot drops with it.....you deserve to have the frame break on you because the bike is a XC bike, not a DH or FR bike. :nono:

Well I am going to step up and buy one this week. I will post a review for all of you next week sometime....depending on when I get the bike and then I need a chance to take it out on some singletrack.


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## WeWu (Jul 19, 2006)

kevin6s said:


> Many comments here interest me so here's my two cents.
> 
> Its important to realize that not everything mass produced in China is made equally, even when manufactured in the same factory. Unless they are doing identical runs, there are many variables that can be different, all the way down to the physical raw materials. From experience (my business is auto parts), I know for a fact there is a factory in China (an associate visited for a few days) that produces coilover sets (suspension products) for many companies - no name to highly recognized. Retail pricing for coilovers range anywhere from $600 to over $2000 depending on the brand. The company that sells the $2000 systems has strict guidelines for their products, all the way down to the raw metal that is used.
> 
> So yeah, the $600 system might be similar to the $2000 one, but they are no where near identical.


I think everyone that gets this bike understands what you're trying to say and no one expects to get a ironhorse warrior for 300 bucks. The truth is tho that this particular bike packs alot of value for how much it costs, and theres no denying that. I mean you can throw out the frame and just part it out and its still a pretty good deal.

Plus the bike comes with a pretty comprehensive warranty and you can return it to a target store near you. I might just purchase it as a parts bin for another bike. And chuck the bike with the old parts on ebay and sell it cheap.


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## erkan (Jan 18, 2004)

That bike is probably as good as a hi-end bike was in 1992.


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## keck99 (Aug 3, 2006)

bump...

is this a good entry level bike for a 6' 1'' newbie looking to get into the sport?


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

*Labels...*

I get a few of these to fix every once in a while..

Father takes his son to K-Mart / Target to buy his boy a 'real' offroad bicycle.

Son chooses a nice bright coloured machine with gears and suspension.

Dad pays, they take the bike home.

Son hops on bike and rides it around back yard.

Several things usually happen. Gears don't work properly. Suspension doesn't function. Pedals/cranks/chain/brakes don't work correctly or fall off. Son complains to dad. Dad gets out his bike tools, which consist of a large wrench, a screwdriver and a hammer.

A few days later, the bike arrives at my workshop. I look at it and groan, inwardly.

I attempt to fix : A: what the so-called mechanic/assembler at the store didn't put together correctly.

B: What the father botched up even more with his "expertise".

This is ok, i'm getting paid to do it. What isn't ok is the fact that it should have been done correctly at the store in the first place.

The irony of it all is the large sticker on the bike which says : " This [offroad] bicycle is not approved for off road riding".

R.


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## kevin6s (Jun 13, 2006)

Maybe I'm reading it wrong (and I've only been to a Target store once) but I think you can only purchase the bike online through Target.com.


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## WeWu (Jul 19, 2006)

keck99 said:


> bump...
> 
> is this a good entry level bike for a 6' 1'' newbie looking to get into the sport?


If I were you I'd give them a call and ask for some geometry specs. The frame is 19 in which theoretically should be the rite size for you, but I don't know the geometry or your inseam so its hard to say.

If not just order it and test fit it, if it doesn't fit rite return it to target. I say go for it, no use in spending too much for a entry level bike just to outgrow it in a year. Plus at this price range all you'll be able to get at a lbs is a heavy bike with acera drivetrain, tectro brakes, rst frt shock, and a bunch of generic parts.

I also just did a rough estimate(with the limited info on their site) of just the component costs. Just the components would cost you about $500 dollars. Do yourself a favor tho, have a lbs put it together for you.

Now for some ranting:
I really don't see why so many of you are making fun of this bike and people that buy this type of bikes. Not everyone wants to spend or have the gobs of money to buy a high end bike. So what wrong if these people go to target or walmart to get their bikes. At least those people are getting out there and exercising. Its this type of elitist attitude that keeps so many people away from lbs's in the first place.

Case in point, I went to a lbs to pick out a cheap bike for my gf to go bike path riding with me. The salesman comes over and immediately trys to sell her a expensive fs bike. I explain to him what we were looking for and we pick out a entry lvl jamis bike. Without helping fit my gf or nething he goes and helps 2 other customers that came in after us. We were left standing there waiting to purchase the bike while he was helping other customers. We finally got frustrated with the lack of attention and just left. Granted he was busy, but I really did not appreciate being treated like a second class citizen for buying a lesser bike. I'm sure not all bike shops are like this, but the majority I've been to are. Making it very intimadating for most non-enthusiaists to go to a lbs.

I'm sorry for the rant, but the elitist attitude coming from some of the posters on this thread was just too much to take.


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## tcunning (Jul 31, 2006)

*I am a reforming snob*

We each have our areas of expertise/fascination/obsession in our lives, and fail to grasp how others cannot share or begin to understand what our obsession is about. Audio equipment used to be one of my weaknesses--when I was a teenager I paid $500 for a tape deck in 1986, and that's when it was my entire net worth. (It still works great by the way...) Currently it's mostly computers, but I have grown wiser. Though I have a lot more money as an adult there's no way I can justify spending $500 every time the newest video card comes out. But while I, the snob, would refuse to have a computer myself that I hadn't selected every spec of down to the timings on the RAM and built myself, I am beginning to understand that a lot of people use their computers to check email and web sites, and that's all they need, and a $300 Dell will work fine for them. Likewise, there are many things I have no knowledge of, like hiking, and I would probably buy a pair of boots, a pack, etc. that a serious hiker wouldn't be caught dead with, but it would be of no concern to me.

I have always been a total (mostly road) bike snob too, but here I have never really been willing to lay out the cash to roll with the big boys, nor have I seen the need. Is Dura Ace _really _twice as good as Ultegra, three times as good as 105? Hardly. As for durability, I haven't worn out the Suntour components on my 1977 Raleigh over tens of thousands of miles. But I definitely check out the ride of the guy going the other way (or passing me) on the trail, may quetly sneer inside, and would never consider buying anything but a top tier brand from anyone but an LBS.

Until now. This deal was just too good to pass up, so I just ordered one. Seriously, the frame is the only major component that could possibly be total garbage and it would easily be replaced. And let's face it, on a hardtail in the moderate price range (I'm talking more than twice what the Forge costs) there isn't a whole lot of original frame engineering going on right now (look at the IH Warrior Comp...) Assembly quality isn't an issue if you put it together yourself.

For some people, I guess, a Wal-Mart bike is all they need to ride around the neighborhood. But this appears to be bringing a much better quality bike to a price point many more can afford, and that has to be a good thing. Anyway, any Wal-Mart bike that is ridden every day is better than a masterpiece that hangs from a hook in a bike snob's basement (like mine).

I'll report back when I get it, although I admit that I am thinking of ways to cover up the decals--I'm not fully reformed yet.


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## Hemma (May 23, 2006)

Then does that come back to the problem of the Dad or Kmart?
The Instruction usually covers the company from lawsuits with something like ,'if you don't know how to do it, get a mechanic to do it for you'


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## OldNick (Aug 7, 2006)

This is the 5xx version. bizrate shows a 7xx version with _dual suspension_ for another US$50. I reckon that puts it all into perspective.

I agreed with whever said that it will be a Deore rear derailleur and the rest is crap. IT's amore sohisitacted version of "Shimano gears"


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## salimoneus (Oct 12, 2004)

this bike will be plenty good for a noob, just make sure it's assembled and put together properly, maybe have a local reputable shop do a quick checkup on it. if i was in your position i wouldn't hesitate if the bike was the right size. this is not your typical walmart bike, just look at the component list and the frame is probably about as good as those on bikes costing hundreds more.


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## taikuodo (Jul 3, 2006)

Lol, I'm a kid and anything over 150 is quite expensive for me.


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## siskiyou (Aug 11, 2006)

*Hmmm... $299 to my door?*

The components on this bike, while not high-end stuff, aren't junk either. I'm looking to replace my 17 yr. old Raleigh Technium beat-around-town bike with something newer. I don't want a "comfort" bike (I'm not THAT old!) and I don't need a high end ride to get a loaf of bread at the grocery, but I would like something that has at least a hint of a sporting attitude (it doesn't take much to out-sport my old Raleigh!). The only swap right out of the box would be street slick tires. I think it would work out as a decent runabout town bike, and if someone manages to swipe it while I'm getting my slurpee I'm only out 3 bills.

I don't think I could buy all the same components as cheaply unless I spent a lot of time on Ebay and scouring online sales. I do all my own wrenching so I'll be able to get it lined out as good as it'll go when I get a hold of it. I've bought 5 bikes and many parts from my LBS and will continue to buy from them, but for what I want this deal is tough to beat. 
We'll see...


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## kevin6s (Jun 13, 2006)

You can always sweaten the deal if you search for a 10% off coupon that usually floats around the internet. If you can combine it with the 10% off they give you when signing up for their store card, the deal gets even better. Then if you sign up for eBates, you'll get another 4% back on your purchase price - tax. The deal is especially good for those with low to no sales tax.


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## xray (May 5, 2005)

Rainman said:


> This is ok, i'm getting paid to do it. What isn't ok is the fact that it should have been done correctly at the store in the first place.
> 
> R.


I pride myself (even though I don't do it anymore) that I worked for a large chain (Canadian Tire) and assembled the bikes quite well. While I didn't do it as well as I would have if I worked at the LBS, I got $5/bike and always did 2 bikes an hour. The store had only 3 bikes brought back for repair/adjustment in the time I was there...

I also spent some of my time (unpaid, this was my own time) helping people on the floor with bikes. When the other employees wernt around I convinced many to try some of the LBS's, if even a few took my advice... it makes me happy.

What pisses me off is I ended up quiting. The general manager seemed to think I wasn't interested in the job because I didn't keep up with the bikes, I was in school and couldnt work 30+hrs a week. He hired another guy who got about 10 bikes done an hour, but suprise suprise the store had 13 bikes brought back the first week this other guy was there.

...and even though it wasnt the best thing to do, I said "have fun with your shitty bikes", told him to shove it and walked out after he let the other guy rearrange (and basically take over) my workspace.


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## OldNick (Aug 7, 2006)

xray said:


> I pride myself (even though I don't do it anymore) that I worked for a large chain (Canadian Tire) and assembled the bikes quite well. While I didn't do it as well as I would have if I worked at the LBS, I got $5/bike and always did 2 bikes an hour. The store had only 3 bikes brought back for repair/adjustment in the time I was there...
> 
> I also spent some of my time (unpaid, this was my own time) helping people on the floor with bikes. When the other employees wernt around I convinced many to try some of the LBS's, if even a few took my advice... it makes me happy.
> 
> ...


Sad story man. This is where the "LBS" (your store sounds like the frachised version????) struggles. I bought my "first" (old mangetting back on <GG>) bike from a "bike chain"; like you seem to have worked for (CT...some sort of franchise???).

They are not chainstore, so the poor SOBs who work there have some bike pride, as you did. But in the end they are caught in the middle of $$/hour and are under constant pressure to feedbelt.


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## omegadeluz77 (Aug 2, 2006)

Well, I order a Forge 5XX yesterday. It seems to be the best I can afford right now ($292 shipped). My LBS doesn't stock much in entry-level bikes, mainly Trek 3900/4300 for about $300-$400. These seem pretty lame compared to what you get from Forge. Hopefully the frame isn't crap. I will post ride results as soon as I get it (prob. Friday).


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## siskiyou (Aug 11, 2006)

*Ditto...*

I ordered one last night also. It will be my beat around town bike. If the frame turns out to be total scrap, you can get a Sette Reken frame, 4.3 lbs., cool black finish in a choice of sizes for $80 at PP. It's got decent reviews.


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## wickerman1 (Dec 24, 2003)

DeeEight said:


> Those don't look like Deore cranks in the picture... methinks Deore Drivetrain means its got a deore rear derailleur and everything else is significantly lower quality. A couple years ago the Sportschek line of stores in canada (similar in store type to Target) which incidently is the Iron Horse distributor for canada, had a brand called Tribal, which at least for their full suspension frames, were basically relabeled Kona Stinky's (same factory in taiwan made both brands). The bike sold complete for like $700 cdn at a time the US dollar was still worth about 50% more than the cdn dollar (its worth like 10% more currently), with a FULL deore group with the exception of the hubset (formula). Included was a Judy C fork, beefy parts, a DH strength (and weight) wheelset and tires, stem, bar, post, and saddle. Essentially budget freeride configuration. Now that was an amazing deal.


Ironic you say that, I just bought a Tribal Super Chunk frame which is in fact a Stinky frame re-labelled. I got it dirt cheap to build the wife a dually but man that frame is heavy. The rear shock on it is pretty crappay but has 8" eye to eye so basically anything 8 inch shock will fit


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## tcunning (Jul 31, 2006)

*Just got my Forge--full specs*

So I bought one...and here are the full specs:

frame: unknown aluminum alloy, made in China, of course. The welds look fine and mine is the matte blue color. I was hoping they wouldn't be but the decals are clearcoated over. There's a "SHIMANO" chainstay protector label too. Size not marked, although I believe it to be 19.5" (just my size)

fork: Manitou AXEL COMP 80mm, adjustable preload

Rear derailleur: Shimano Deore

Front derailleur: Shimano Alivio

Shifters: Shimano Deore

crankset: Truvativ ISOFlow, 175mm, replaceable steel rings, removable chain guard

Wheels: WTB Speed Disc rims 559x17, 541ERD, 24mm; Presta valves; stainless steel (chrome color) spokes; no-name black hubs

Brakes: Hayes MX2

levers: Tektro MT30

cassette: SRAM, 34-11T, 9 sp.

chain: Shimano CN-HG73

Tires: IRC MythosXC 2.10F/2.10R (different patterns front/rear)

Saddle: WTB Pure V, steel rails

headset: labeled "Mfg. by VP for Cane Creek, VP-A42E"

stem: no-name sturdy solid aluminum, adjustable angle

handlebars: no-name, aluminum

grips: WTB Moto

seatpost: no-name, black aluminum, 30.9 dia., quick release

pedals: I decided to forego the Wellgo extremely heavy platform pedals (no clips provided) in favor of my old ones

I roughly estimate the weight with a bathroom scale to be 32 lbs. I will swap out the adjustable stem with a lighter rigid one when I decide on the extension I want.

As I posted previously I *NEVER *would have considered buying anything other than a name brand from an LBS until I saw this deal. Its pretty much an unbeatable value. The lack of information about the frame materials is the only real cause for concern, but it has a lifetime warranty.

I ordered it on Saturday, it was shipped from Texas on Monday and arrived in Pennsylvania Thursday in near perfect condition. The only flaw was a slightly frayed front derailleur cable. If you order, BTW, do a Google search for a Target online coupon and you will save 10%, any time (I didn't).

A noob who would normally buy a bike in Target would not have had a good time assembling the bike. It came almost fully assembled but the front brake had to be mounted, requiring the use of a Torx screwdriver which most people wouldn't have. Presta valves, too (hooray). Manuals for the whole bike, fork, brakes, and Shimano components were included but not of great help. It was also apparently a generic Hayes mounting kit that was supplied because there were a few parts left over. The brakes, rear derailleur, and headset had to be adjusted, but that was about it.

In a classic case of bad timing I was diagnosed with the shingles the day before I got the bike, so was only able to take a few (painful) laps around the block, but there is little not to like.


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## siskiyou (Aug 11, 2006)

*Sounds good!*

Thanks for the lowdown on the Sawback, I'm looking forward to seeing a box on my porch soon! I also got the blue since the silver was sold out but hey, color is really no big deal to me (as long as it's not hot pink). Yeah I likewise never thought I'd be buying a bike from Target! But with the components it came with and the price $270 ($299 - 10% and free shipping, no sales tax) I couldn't get anything close at my local LBS.

I've purhased 2 BMX bikes and a 24" K2 MTN bike for my kids, a Fuji comfort bike for my wife, and a K2 DS for myself at my local LBS and have no regrets there. But for a utility bike for myself I couldn't find a reason to spend more. The 19.5 frame is just right for me (6' 175lbs.)

Hope the shingles clear up soon and you can get those wheels broke in proper!
:thumbsup:


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## omegadeluz77 (Aug 2, 2006)

I got my bike but it looks a little tougher to assemble that I thought. How much might an LBS charge to assemble it?


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## keck99 (Aug 3, 2006)

I got the bike also, i'm fiddilin' with it as we speak... lets just say it's a learning experience for this newbie. Does anything need any extra grease/lube?

ps the guys at forge/target are loving this thread it seems.


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## omegadeluz77 (Aug 2, 2006)

I finally got mine together. Not as hard as it seemed at first... I don't have the proper adapter to put air in these valves so no test ride tonight  What are these valves called? Where can I get an adapter? I don't want to have to drive to the LBS 15 miles away. Hope Walmart carries it. As far as the grease/lube, I am installing according to the instructions. It hasn't said anything about lube. If any is needed please let me know. This the first bike assembly for this noob....


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## asm (Jul 21, 2006)

omegadeluz77 said:


> I finally got mine together. Not as hard as it seemed at first... I don't have the proper adapter to put air in these valves so no test ride tonight  What are these valves called? Where can I get an adapter? I don't want to have to drive to the LBS 15 miles away. Hope Walmart carries it. As far as the grease/lube, I am installing according to the instructions. It hasn't said anything about lube. If any is needed please let me know. This the first bike assembly for this noob....


Presta Valves. I'm not sure if walmart carries the adapter, but your LBS will.


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## omegadeluz77 (Aug 2, 2006)

Lame, gonna have to drive out to the LBS. What is the intial "break in" period for a new bike? What should I check for after this time. Since my LBS is two towns away and I don't have much $ I want to learn how to tune up my bike myself.

Thanks for helping out a noob.


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## siskiyou (Aug 11, 2006)

*You could do that,*

I dunno what they might charge, but I'm pretty sure you could handle it if you have some patience and the tools. Maybe we can help you get going from here. The benefit of the experience (even if it becomes frustrating) will be that you'll get to know the workings of your bike a little better. This could be handy when you have a problem on the trail or just keeping your bike in good working order. Do know someone who likes to wrench on bikes? Most people who are "into" bikes enjoy putting their knowledge to use helping others with their rides (especially shiny new ones!)

But if you're concerned with putting it together incorrectly and it not being safe, I understand. You have to be comfortable with your mechanical skills and it's not everyones bag.

.


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## r33t (Aug 7, 2006)

I can definitely relate with you, xray. It makes me happy to know there's a dollar-per-bike assembler who takes his time. I deal with returned bikes from shitty assemblers everyday, as i work for wal-mart full time assembling bikes. Though walmart does make a profit on bikes, they're not anywhere close to the 30 point range (as pimpbot noted). From my experiences, I am employed to build good bikes, and to fix all the poorly assembled bikes that get returned. I've never been asked to build more bikes, even though somedays I only build 4-5 bikes. When the shelves get empty, a huffy assembler comes in to build at a rate of $4 per bike. He slaps together 5-10 bikes an hour, and the next day i get to fix them all/help customers. I don't really mind since I get paid hourly, but in the end, theres no way a retailer can get around a 30-60 minute bike build time. The returns will always catch up to them. Therefore, even if walmart buys a bike for $40 and sells it for $60, they still spend at least $8 to have the bike assembled (not even figuring in the cost of parts and tools), so i figure they might make $10 on a $60 bike, which is a pretty low profit margin (considering the shelf/shop space the bikes require).


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## WeWu (Jul 19, 2006)

Grats on the new bikes guys. That spec sheet looks very decent for the price. 

I was undecided whether I wanted to buy one for a parts bike, but now alas its too late. It seems our little thread has encouraged enough people to buy them that they seem to out of stock now.

I think at the very least forge bikes and target should send some sponsorship money mtbr.com's way. Seeing as how this forum helped them sell so many bikes.


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## tcunning (Jul 31, 2006)

To assemble the bike you will need a comprehensive set of metric allen wrenches (preferably the long L-shaped ones) and a Torx T25 screwdriver; the easiest way to get one of these is as a set of bits that fit into a handle. A torque wrench is not a must, but be careful not to overtighten anything. As for lubrication I put a little bit of grease on the pedal threads, and you need to lube the chain and drivertrain when everything is together (with what is another discussion altogether; I just use an automotive grade silicone spray).

The disc brakes are a little tricky. Hayes directions are lousy; you actually have to remove the C-shaped adapter that is attached to the caliper before installing the front brake--you won't use it and will have a few bolts leftover. Once you get the front brake mounted you need to adjust both it and the rear brake to prevent dragging by leaving the mounting bolts loose, applying the brake, and then tightening them up, and then adjusting the inner pad if necessary with a 5mm allen wrench. That's a lot easier, though than adjusting the pads on a rim brake properly.

You will also probably have to adjust the barrel adjuster on the rear derailleur so the chain doesn't make any noise; Shimano's directions on this are good. The Forge manual's instructions for adjusting the Aheadset are also good.

As for break-in, Hayes says the brakes need 30-40 stops to break in. The other issue is cable stretch; the brakes will probably have to be readjusted in a few days or weeks of riding.

If you want to learn more about bicycle maintenance I recommend Bicycling Magazine's _Bicycle Maintenance and Repair_; it's well illustrated and up to date. And those Presta valves are far superior to the standard kind (Schrader) and the hallmark of a quality bicycle!


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## iCrashed (Aug 15, 2006)

*Any Questions on the bike?*

I ride a Giant XTC Composite for real (the best gift I ever got). After finding somebody worked on my lock, a kryptonite evolution mini, I decided i need something else for around town.I ordered this recently. When it comes I will be willing to answer any questions.


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

Dirt Bringer said:


> http://shopping.msn.com/Reviews/shp/?itemId=386262820


In the 4th line down in the first review, the guy states "the T Hi-grade aluminum frame(easily upgradable). I have been wrong about many things but, from my understanding, you can't upgrade a frame. :skep: :skep:

Its nothing real constructive to the conversation but I just thought it was funny.

Also he said Forge was easy to reach by phone. Didn't someone on here say they only had a fax machine?:skep: :skep:


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## omegadeluz77 (Aug 2, 2006)

Well, this evening I got around to riding the Forge. I am very satisfied with what I received so far. The difference in ride between this bike and my old $80 Magna FS are like night and day. After riding awhile I got up the confidence I jumped so curbs and took some small drops. It seems I am getting a bit of hesitation then my gears jump. What do I need to adjust to fix this? I have not adjusted the derailers at all. Thanks for everyone's help and input regarding this matter. It is greatly appreciated.

Joe B.


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## tcunning (Jul 31, 2006)

Rover Nick said:


> In the 4th line down in the first review, the guy states "the T Hi-grade aluminum frame(easily upgradable). I have been wrong about many things but, from my understanding, you can't upgrade a frame. :skep: :skep:
> 
> Its nothing real constructive to the conversation but I just thought it was funny.
> 
> Also he said Forge was easy to reach by phone. Didn't someone on here say they only had a fax machine?:skep: :skep:


Upgrading the frame means you take all the parts off it, throw it away, and buy a new one.

When I called Forge I got an answering machine and a very helpful return phone call later in the day.


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## omegadeluz77 (Aug 2, 2006)

Is there a way to raise the handlebars on this bike? About 4 miles into a 20 mile ride my hands and triceps started aching. It feels as if I am putting to much weight on them. My lower back was also hurting. Now I kind of wish I could have gotten fitted for the bike. The standover height is fine so I'm hoping that maybe a longer stem or headset my fix my problem. I'm not to fond of the adjustable one the bike came with. Anyone know where I can find a inexpensive replacement? 

Thanks,
Joe B.


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## tcunning (Jul 31, 2006)

omegadeluz77 said:


> Is there a way to raise the handlebars on this bike?.


On a bike with a threadless headset like this you really can't "raise" the stem because the steerer tube of the fork is only cut so long and the stem clamps to the outside of it. You can buy a different stem that is either shorter or longer in length (extension) or one that juts up at a different angle. However, the adjustable stem does both of these things, though mostly the angle; the length changes only slightly as the angle is varied. You need to determine the cause of your problem; if your hands are numb the stem is probably either too long or is not angled up enough, and you are putting too much weight on them. The best thing is probably to play with the adjustable stem until you are comfortable, and buy something that matches the configuration you like. BTW as a starting point the extension of the adjustable stem supplied is approximately 110mm.


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## bkmartin (Jan 13, 2004)

Too bad they are sold out now


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

wickerman1 said:


> Ironic you say that, I just bought a Tribal Super Chunk frame which is in fact a Stinky frame re-labelled. I got it dirt cheap to build the wife a dually but man that frame is heavy. The rear shock on it is pretty crappay but has 8" eye to eye so basically anything 8 inch shock will fit


Pretty sure the 17" one I had weighed 8 pounds for the frame alone. I would definitel stick an air shock on it in place of that coil shock, just for the pound or so of weight savings.


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## iCrashed (Aug 15, 2006)

*Got My Bike*

Hey i got the bike yesterday. i have 20 miles on it. assembly is a snap. took about half hour. It needed some tuning which i took care of. Ill be happy to answer any questions. Btw 
i get the "sweet bike" look from strangers all the time.. You can expect that w/ a manitou and discs. It doesnt com pare to my giant but its the best in its price range. I have about 20 miles on it. Well see what it can do when I hit the trails hopefully on sunday. Feel free to ask me about it.


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## Sixty Fiver (Apr 10, 2006)

I too assembled bikes in my youth, was paid fairly well on a per bike basis, and always made sure the bikes I assembled were done right. The store's manager had a great policy that if the bike needed to come back for repairs / adjustments due to a faulty build, you didn't get paid for the build. 

Fast forward more than twenty years and I now have the pleasure of working in our city's third largest bike shop where all our bikes come from donations that then get refitted / rebuilt for needy kids. We're also supported by most of the local bike shops who often donate new bikes, tools, parts, and sometimes they even loan us their mechanics. 

I am most often dismayed by the poor quality of the department store bikes that come in as besides starting with poor intitial quality, their poor condition often stems from a lack of proper maintainence.

So when I see that Target is marketting a bike that appears to be decently equipped and reasonably well built for a spectacular price I hope that Canadian stores follow suit and start upgrading their product too.


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## siskiyou (Aug 11, 2006)

"So when I see that Target is marketting a bike that appears to be decently equipped and reasonably well built for a spectacular price I hope that Canadian stores follow suit and start upgrading their product too."

As far as upgading their product, it would be nice but unfortunately for many people $300 still seems too much when they can pick one up that to them looks the same for under $100. For those that know the difference, this may be the best new bike deal out there right now.

I just got mine yesterday and I was pleasantly surprised at the quality for the price. Everything on this bike is industry standard replacable stuff. A decent entry level MTB for $300. The only bad thing is the frame only comes in 19.5". I'm 6' and it's just big enough for me. If your between 5'6"- 6'0" it'll probably be ok. The frame seems well constructed but the arrow straight seat stays and stiff chainstays make for a stiff ride in the rear. The drive train is very smooth and the Hayes MX-2s are much better than low end V-brakes that usually come on a bike at this price point. The fork is also better than most RST or Suntour forks that wind up on entry level rides.


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## Sixty Fiver (Apr 10, 2006)

I'd expect a HT to be stiff and a little stiff is far better than being too flexy... I use a compact sprung saddle on my Al hardtail and it makes for one sweet ride.

People really need to get educated before they buy a bicycle as it is a vehicle that you will have to trust to get you from A to B safely and securely. If you want a vehicle that will take you off road then it looks like $300.00 is the entry level price for a reasonably decent ride.


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## clarity (Aug 25, 2006)

so after joining the forum i saw this thread and had to throw in my 2 cents....

i just got back into riding xc after riding nothing but road for the last few years. while i am a total road geek with a hand built (by me), 3-4k price range bike, i didn't want to drop a ton of cash on a bike not knowing how much i was going to ride it so when i saw the 5xx it seemed like a great deal. man i'm glad i took a chance on it! i switched out a couple components, put nice new xt cranks on it with my trusty clipless (bought nicer ones for my road bike and swapped the old ones onto this) and swapped the alivio front d for an extra deore one my room mate had lying around (being a bike mechanic he has a lot of that stuff lying around) i also ditched the god awful heavy adjustable stem for a raceface deus xc 70mm stem. all told i spent about $210 for the cranks and stem and $261 for the bike with shipping (it was on sale when i bought it) so for about $470 i have a great xc bike to get back out in the woods with! (oh i also noticed that the silver frame on the site has a big aluxx sticker on the seat tube so the giant theory sounds pretty right on)

anyway i have been riding the bike for a few months now and have been riding some pretty tech xc lately on group rides. the bike has held up wonderfully, i havent hit any drops over 3 feet on it, but it IS an xc bike after all.... the only complaints i have about it are that the 19.5 frame is a tad large for me (i'm 5'8") the axel comp is a bit soft (i damn near broke my wrist on some downhill stupidity when it bottomed out on me, but again, its not a free ride, dh or all mountain bike) and the one big thing, because of the set up of the drop outs, the chain stays are about an inch below the axel and the rear d smacks into them whenever you get into the smaller cogs. i fixed it by zip tying a piece of grip to the derailuer cage to pad it, but i also called the customer service guys, who were amazingly happy for the feedback. they said that they are looking at that issue as part of the 07 redesign actually, so i must not be the only one who noticed it.

that said, the decals are ugly as hell, but a couple stickers fixed that real quick. i do wish more bike manufacturers would stop doing us the "favor" of putting the stickers UNDER the clear coat......


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## bikefun (Jun 15, 2006)

iCrash PM me. I want to ask you about the XTC setup. Forge Bicycles made solid changes this year they are really awesome. I wanted to compare your 06' with mine. I also bought another Forge Sawback 5xx, the 07'. Very nice!! Did you get any more info on Forge Bikes new frame sets? Thanks!!!

PS: Do you still have the Specialized?


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