# IMBA membership begging



## liv_rong (Apr 11, 2008)

I guess it isnt begging really, but man do they send a lot of stuff. I was a member for one year but now cant justify spending the money on a IMBA membership in addition to my local club membership. They have easily spent more money on mailings to try to get me to re-up then my original membership cost. I know they are a great organization but what a waste IMO. I know it is a catch 22, but it just seems wasteful to me. How much of paying members contributions are going to these mailings? It takes a lot of money to run an organization of their scope, but a lot more to keep membership up and funds rolling in. I dont know the point of this thread.

The end.


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## Seanbike (Mar 23, 2004)

It's one of the reasons that my/your/our local club didn't sign on to the new IMBA chapter system. The cut that would stay local and be used to fund the club vs the portion that would fund IMBA's activities was leaning the wrong direction. There may have been some additional members gained, maybe some increase in member retention but we would have needed to see a 100% increase in membership(new and retained) to keep revenue levels stable let alone increase.

I've got the spreadsheets I worked up some where if you wanted to see them Joe.


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## Bob W (Jul 6, 2004)

*Did you reply*

Did you reply back (letter or by phone) and ask then to remove you from the mailing list? If it is in electronic form you can elect to unsubsrcibe, its usually at the bottom of the message.


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## WaltDirtMerchant (Apr 1, 2011)

With the deep pockets of the environmentalist groups trying to shut down our trails I think it worth the $, as well as a show of strength in numbers makes my membership donation well worth it. I'll keep my IMBA membership current.


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## Seanbike (Mar 23, 2004)

The value of an IMBA membership isn't being disputed. They need members and their dollars to do the good work they do. 

The point was how much money is too much when trying to attract and retain members?

CAMBr as a club still supports IMBA and pays Club membership dues to IMBA but did not move forward with the chapter program as the cost to our club outweighed our benefits.


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## indytrekracer (Feb 13, 2004)

*Can't make everyone happy*

I know our group lost a lot of members because we simple didn't remind them that their memberships where expired. Heck, we often had board members whose memberships where expired.

It's in IMBA's best interest to be cost effective. That means analyzing the data to determine the cost vs payback of mailing out reminders. They know how often those mailings are successful, which provides the data for how many and how often to send letters.

Its no different than the mail order catalogs who sent me catalogs for a year after my last purchase, but eventually stop.

You can log onto the IMBA site and sign up for the do not mail option.


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## liv_rong (Apr 11, 2008)

It is not that they bother me in the sense that I am getting junk mail or anything like that, but I will opt out just to save them a couple dollars. And like I said, I know why they do it and why I dont join up again. I guess I am questioning at what point is too much of _your_ donation(or mine if I was a member) spent on trying to retain members? I am part of a club and make my contributions in ways that I know will help the club. If I knew that my club was spending my membership dues to send out fancy letters and postcards I would not be so inclined to continue to contribute financially. Even though I understand the importance of it at some point it is not balanced. Now, I know we are talking about an organization that is much more vast and has much more money than a local club, and obviously(as someone else stated) they have figures as to what gains/losses are made by sending them out and already know that it helps them. For me though, it still doesnt make sense.

If I do re-up again(which Im sure I will at some point in my lifetime) I know that my contribution will be spent on sending out letters and postcards to some other person like myself for a few years.

No big deal. Just making some conversations on the internets.


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## PedalDriven (Dec 1, 2011)

I've been a member of IMBA for about 4 years now. I've purchased jerseys and accessories from their web store and I display IMBA stickers on my car. I've supported them and have donated money but they are never in my area trying to set up trails. It seems that my money is being enjoyed by other people far away as they ride on IMBA trails. I'm thinking of not renewing next year.

-Cheers.


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## ocsawdust (Apr 30, 2011)

WaltDirtMerchant said:


> With the deep pockets of the environmentalist groups trying to shut down our trails I think it worth the $, as well as a show of strength in numbers makes my membership donation well worth it. I'll keep my IMBA membership current.


not sure where i stand on this point, but as a fisherman in socal, the enviros have done some work here. they are killing fishing. closures are crazy. they would like to close everything and make it illegal to even go in. the mlpa's closed down kayaking, spearfishing shore fishing, and basicly all fishing within a gps area. with wountain bikes, in time certain plants will become offences. just keep a tight group. in time one of those weeds will be curbside. .....


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## Bob W (Jul 6, 2004)

*IMBA Visits*



PedalDriven said:


> I've been a member of IMBA for about 4 years now. I've purchased jerseys and accessories from their web store and I display IMBA stickers on my car. I've supported them and have donated money but they are never in my area trying to set up trails. It seems that my money is being enjoyed by other people far away as they ride on IMBA trails. I'm thinking of not renewing next year.
> 
> -Cheers.


Have you and/or your club contacted IMBA about a visit? They are not just going to show up and put trails on the ground, there has to be an existing group that is going to drive the project and seek out assistance.

I think a lot of folks dont understand what IMBA is here for...its like BASF...they dont make the things we use, they make them better (I think that was their line for a while). IMBA is there to facilitate things, provide support, information, and resources. I think they do a great job of that, this is why I am a member.

Regarding the OP issue with spending money on mailings, I trust that this is truely a cost effective means to retaining membership as it is used by most organizations.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Seanbike said:


> It's one of the reasons that my/your/our local club didn't sign on to the new IMBA chapter system. The cut that would stay local and be used to fund the club vs the portion that would fund IMBA's activities was leaning the wrong direction. There may have been some additional members gained, maybe some increase in member retention but we would have needed to see a 100% increase in membership(new and retained) to keep revenue levels stable let alone increase.


+1 - my sentiments exactly.

My local club has done amazing things, with the help of annual dues, contributions from individuals and businesses and most importantly members willing to volunteer their time. IMBA has undoubtedly done great things worldwide but they somehow do not comprehend the financial implications of membership. If the local clubs get soaked paying membership percentages (weighted in the favor of IMBA) to the point that they cannot survive, that is not good for them or IMBA :madmax:


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## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

I used to work for a membership-based national cycling organization and one of the things you quickly figure out is that if you don't ask for money, you will end up closing shop.

The renewal cycle usually starts months before a membership expires and lasts months afterwards. If you were once a member, it is likely that you will be again. Members need to be reminded a lot.

We used to analyze every renewal cycle. We had people getting mailings every month, whether it was your first reminder (end of membership month minus 3) or someone else's 6th (end of membership month plus 3). We would look at the overall profitability of each mailing. We started with four and were encouraged to try adding a mailing to the front end by the mail house/experts. Lo and behold, we were profitable. Again, they suggested adding one mailing at membership+3 months and that one was profitable too! People (in general) forget and every time we did a mailing, it was profitable.

With a deep understanding of the membership/fundraising/mass mailing world now, it makes sense. You get bombarded with 'junk mail' (IMBA, Dell, whoever) because it is, on the whole, profitable. It bears out that if IMBA wasn't asking for money or renewals all the time (or at least a lot) they would have LESS money, not more. And they ask for a variety of reasons to appeal to different internal values.

We used to do a mailing each year on education, safety, fun and many times included a gimme. Those socks that you hate (or love) make a lot of people give, even if they don't know why. It's all calculated.

Locally, our club is one of the best in the nation (IMBA says so). We hire IMBA a lot to come in and do stuff. We are strong in the local scene, building and maintaining trail. Our leadership is close to IMBA staff and we receive a lot of intangible support. We also provide lodging, volunteers, etc when the staff is in town.

Mailing lists, fundraising, membership, events, outreach... there's a reason that you can get a Master's in non-profit management. It's mostly a science. There's not a lot to it. The executive director of the organization I worked for came from another non-profit and she wasn't some cycling nut, but she turned the organization around and made it very successful. She left to run another, totally different type of non-profit after she turned it around. Our area is full of those types.

So, to sum up, IMBA is very clear about what it is doing. They may lose money on YOUR mailing, but on the whole, they made money on the mailing you and many others received. They know exactly how to keep the organization strong. The worst thing you can have happen as a non-profit is to start going backwards in fundraising and members. It's a very tough thing to stop. You start losing staff, programs, materials, members... It's ugly.

Rest assured, with our without your support, IMBA is operating in a responsible way. If you don't see them in your area, I hate to say it, but it may be your fault. They don't come in a produce projects, they lend credibility and support to projects you are working on. And they have a lot of projects from which to choose. Yours might be a lower priority based on where you are. It's just a reality. It may suck, but they are providing a service to somebody, somewhere right now. People on this board and in orgs around the country can help you leverage resources into your area. This is one area that the IMBA Summit really helps with. It's not that meeting the IMBA staff is the crucial thing (it's important though), it's that meeting other people in other clubs gives you a sounding board and great stories.

Holy FSM. Is this long enough yet? I'm going to see if my IMBA membership is current... I may have fallen behind...

mk


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The IMBA mailings don't bother me. 

What gets a little crazy are some of the other organizations. For example, I got my yard certified as a backyard habitat through the National Wildlife Federation this year, and I swear I get WEEKLY mailings from them about all kinds of crap. They're ridiculous.

It's my opinion that one reason the USPS is having a rough go of it is because they don't charge enough postage for presorted bulk mail. Think about it...how much of what shows up in your mailbox are catalogs, credit card offers, solicitations for one charity or another (or your alma mater), etc? The USPS is essentially subsidizing advertising for a whole host of companies and organizations.


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## seenvic (Sep 9, 2003)

IMBA is the think globally part 

and you are the act locally part.

This is either obvious, or there are no amount of words I can say to make you understand it.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I started thinking recently about this...
If I want to have fun riding trails, shouldn't I want to pitch in and help to build and maintain those trails?
I mean somebody else did, right?...:thumbsup:
I called IMBA to ask for some literature about the organization. One of the first things they told me was to support my loal organizations, and if I want to join IMBA they would be glad to have me. They sent me some recent Trail News Pubs, a DVD and some stats related to the money mountain biking generates so I could get an overall picture of how important it is for bikers to support the trails we ride on. I feel that all bikers should pitch in some time to help out. I am hoping to do just that.:thumbsup:
I recentlly lost my foot due to diabetic complications though. I'll try to do my best.
---zarr


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## thumpduster (Nov 19, 2008)

trailbildr said:


> So, to sum up, IMBA is very clear about what it is doing. They may lose money on YOUR mailing, but on the whole, they made money on the mailing you and many others received..... They don't come in and produce projects, they lend credibility and support to projects you are working on


This is so true. A national-level nonprofit like the IMBA has done the math and knows what communication methods and frequencies make sense. If they didn't we wouldn't be having this discusion because the organziation wouldn't exist anymore.



seenvic said:


> IMBA is the think globally part
> 
> and you are the act locally part.


BINGO!

Honestly, I think a lot of the whining about the IMBA is based on folks not really knowing how much the organization has done for the sport (and sustainable trail building in general) over the years. We want an organization that can be there for every local organization and every local trail, but we never want to be told what to do and we think us locals always know better.

I have no problem with non-IMBA, fully independant local groups doing their thing. If that works for your local situation then all the better. But, this doesn't negate all the different reasons to support the IMBA's work at the state and national levels.

A membership is $30. That's a huge sum of money, right?


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^^^We need IMBA or an IMBA-like organization and IMBA is workable. I think of IMBA as a Washington lobbying organization that reaches down to the local level in a few specific ways but mostly by supporting the effort at the government/corporate level, where IMBA support means you have at least some credibility. Beyond that not so much until the trail consultant program was established. My experience is that they can provide a valuable service in legitimatizing the local effort by educating land/resource managers in what is required for real world infrastructure development. The Trail Care Crews are more of a PR/education/training program for member clubs to generate some buzz and train members the basics of trail construction and maintenance. That is my experience as a club leader in Gallup, New Mexico, a small community in the middle of nowhere, and it works for me.

You can choose not to receive mail in your account settings...


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

thumpduster said:


> and we think us locals always know better.


i would agree with the sentiment as well, but sometimes locals do indeed have a better handle on things.

It's a difficult situation to be in certainly, being an International body. You read these threads and there is a vast range of issues, and such a wide variance of assorted situations. Which lead me to say the current Chapter Program is a mistake. Not that i have the solution to what would make the body more solvent and effective.

Having IMBA in itself is a benefit and is critical to the future of mt. biking. It's hard to highlight the intangible hard to see benefits of many times providing the atmosphere or structure to succeed on the local level. That in and of itself is worth the paltry 30 bucks to chip in, but most people can't see that.

On the other hand the things that turn people off when the organization oversteps their welcome, creating limits that are derived from being an international body. And many times putting their brand for things they really had no involvement in, these are things i don't find very helpful, and i'm not a fan of.

But to me there are still people that throw TONS of cash at groups like Sierra Club that have a specific agenda against Mt. Biking. And you know what? These groups are still winning! That alone should be motivation for all mt. bikers to shell out a few bucks.


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## Mark E (Feb 7, 2006)

Hard not to sound like a shill here, but since I'm IMBA's communications director I guess that's my job!

It's good to read all of the thoughtful comments, including the critical ones. 

To address the OP's concern: We all hate direct mail, but unfortunately there's no denying that it works. I've worked in magazines and non-profits for many years, and they'd all be thrilled to save on the expense and waste of postal mail solicitations. But they get results. 

As a previous posters said, you can easily log into your IMBA account and select "don't send postal mail" in your communications preferences. 

Next, regarding IMBA Chapters, you're seeing a significant transformation of the organization these days. IMBA is really cranking up its efforts to support local organizations, with many more staff people (particularly the regional directors) dedicated to that aspect of our work. The revenue split with Chapters is a big part of how we can fund these new staff positions -- but we obviously have to prove that the value proposition is there, one that makes it desirable for a local group to participate and share their members and revenues. Lots of groups are finding that it works very well for them, but we also know that Chapter status is not going to be right for every MTB club. 

Like politics, all trails are local. It's the local organizations make the most difference to the trails you, as an individual rider, experience. But there are also important things that only a national/international body can do for mountain bikers. A local or even a regional club can't meet with heads of federal agencies and say "We represent mountain bikers from coast to coast and we want to see X happen." IMBA can, and we do that week in and week out. 

Here's a press release I put out last week that attempts to characterize some of IMBA's best accomplishments in 2011. I'll admit it's more of a rah-rah piece than an in-depth analysis of our strengths and weaknesses. It's that time of year -- we're beating the fundraising drums as hard as we can these days! 

Thanks for reading. 

-- Mark Eller

10 Things IMBA Did for You in 2011 — And What's Next

IMBA’s mission is to create, enhance and protect great mountain bike experiences — it’s a mantra that has guided our work for more than two decades. In 2011, we scored some great successes that we’re proud to share.

Looking forward to 2012, we see even greater opportunities. But they can only be achieved if IMBA continues to receive your generous support. Please consider making a donation to our Annual Fund drive, and join IMBA if you’re not already a member.

1) Protected Bike Access on U.S. Federal Lands

At the outset of 2011, mountain bikers faced a real threat of getting kicked off trails managed by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), particularly in areas managed as Wild Lands. IMBA staff quickly booked meetings with top-ranking BLM officials and clarified that biking is compatible with strong land protection measures — we even turned the discussions to riders’ advantage by planning for enhanced partnerships between the BLM and IMBA-affiliated chapters and clubs around the United States.

2) Helped Launch the Award-Winning Documentary Movie “Pedal-Driven”

Illegal trail building stirs people’s emotions and creates conflicts between mountain bikers and land managers. IMBA partnered with Howell at the Moon Productions to create Pedal-Driven, a powerfully told documentary film that tackles this important topic. Since its premier at the Sea Otter Classic, Pedal Driven has earned widespread praise — including a selection to the prestigious Banff Film Festival and an official endorsement from the U.S. Forest Service.

3) Lobbied for Mountain Bikers’ Interests in Washington, D.C.

IMBA represents mountain bikers in the U.S. Capitol year-round, including retaining some of the best-regarded lobbying firms in Washington. In March, the National Bike Summit (NBS) is the biggest public lobbying event for bicyclists, and IMBA has stepped up to a top-level sponsoring role for the event. Please join us at NBS in 2012 for a crucial year as federal budget battles will decide the fate of the Recreational Trails Program and other vital sources of funding for trail improvements.

4) Provided Rewards for Dedicated Trail Volunteers

IMBA’s grassroots network generates more than 600,000 hours of volunteer-based public service efforts every year. They do it because they love trails and the feeling of giving something back to places they love to ride. With support from Recreational Equipment Inc. (REI), IMBA rolled out Teaming for Trails, rallying even more volunteerism and providing rewards for our greatest asset, our members.

5) Put Expert Trail Builders to Work Creating Amazing Riding

IMBA’s Trail Solutions team has emerged as one of the largest and most effective providers of professional trail building services in the world. Their team of trail experts plans, builds and tweaks every kind of mountain bike facility, for all levels of riders and in locations all over the globe. They push the boundaries of trail design (as shown in this video) and teach land managers how to offer outstanding trail riding while carefully protecting natural resources.

6) Advanced Bike-Friendly Forms of Land Protection

IMBA members have long shown a deep dedication to conservation values — we want to see pristine places protected from development and abuse. Because Wilderness designations offer one of the strongest forms of land protection, but also eliminate bike access, mountain bikers have long wrestled with Wilderness expansions. Thanks to IMBA’s Public Lands Initiative, today’s bike advocates have better tools than ever before to partner with conservation-minded groups and find win-win solutions.

7) The Subaru/IMBA Trail Care Crews Spread the Gospel

Nothing has done more to advance the sport of mountain biking and the gospel of sustainable trail design than the Subaru/IMBA Trail Care Crew program. For nearly 15 years, we’ve put teams of trail experts on the road in specially-equipped Outbacks and sent them to meet with mountain bike clubs, land managers and all types of trail users. Attend a TCC event (they conduct more than 60 each year) and the depth of their knowledge, the effectiveness of their methods and the joyfulness of their presentations will blow you away.

8) Put Thousands of Kids on Bikes

If you want to see mountain biking thrive in the decades ahead, there’s no better reason to support IMBA than our annual Take a Kid Mountain Biking Day event. In 2011, we hosted more than 230 rides — including ones in Australia, Canada, Italy, Malaysia, Mexico and South Africa. These young mountain bikers get a chance to connect with the IMBA-affiliated chapters, clubs and patrols that ensure they will grow up with great places to ride.

9) Increased Support for IMBA-affiliated Chapters and Clubs

IMBA’s Chapter Program was bolstered in 2011 by the addition of a new staff position. Tiffanie Beal now serves as the Chapter and Services Coordinator, joining a team that provides top-rate service to IMBA's network of chapters, clubs and members. More than 60 IMBA clubs have already stepped up to chapter status, and 2012 will see even larger enrollments for the strongest level of organizational affiliation.

10) Celebrated the Best Mountain Biking in the World

IMBA’s Model Trails announcement — including the 2011 Epics, Ride Centers and more — generated dozens of news stories and earned widespread attention for some of the best riding areas on the planet. Why does IMBA offer these accolades? Because seeing what mountain biking looks like when it’s done right help communities, land managers and knobby-tired enthusiasts envision what’s possible, and inspires even higher achievements.

What's Next? 3 Big Things for 2012

2011 was an awesome year, but looking forward we see plenty of inspiring opportunities:

1) Don’t Miss the 2012 World Summit

In October, Santa Fe, New Mexico will provide the backdrop to the 2012 IMBA World Summit.

2) More Regional Directors to Serve You

We’re adding more Regional Directors, professional IMBA staff who work in distinct territories to develop mountain bike opportunities.

3) Amazing Bike Parks

Have you checked out the IMBA video about Valmont Bike Park, a cutting-edge facility in Colorado? Park projects are popping up everywhere, helping more people experience mountain biking.


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## VMBA (Mar 30, 2008)

Good words Mark. IMBA are an awesome organization - this list of 10 things is only the tip of the iceberg, IMBAs work for mountain bikers is endless, and much appreciated.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Amazing stats!!*

After I talked to a rep in Colorado, I got a packet of IMBA stuff. One of the things that amazed me (if it's totally true), is that there is more (50 million) mountain bikers in the U.S.A. than the total population of the country of Canada!!! 
A while back I started a thread based upon the thought that mountain biking seems to be almost unknown in the African American communities throughout the U.S.
Not that I'm biased toward African-Americans, but I would just like to see mountain biking become more visable there. 
The thread received it's share of responses, some good comments and some bad, ...but IMBA embraces aWorldwide look at the sport,
I like that. :thumbsup:
Now, I have to ask myself...zarr?...where do we go from here? 
Mountain biking is getting better and better.
Isn't it.
---zarr


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## Erik MM (Apr 16, 2010)

zarr said:


> Mountain biking is getting better and better.
> Isn't it.
> ---zarr


I think so...riding has progressed, and so have trails, and trail "science," thanks in large part to....IMBA (not to mention better bikes)

like anything 'bureaucratic'/governmental, keeping it local is important, but sometimes getting locals to show up is a difficult task, but an "army of one" is better than none


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## gotdirt (Jan 17, 2006)

*ftw*



seenvic said:


> IMBA is the think globally part and you are the act locally part.


:thumbsup:


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## GChambers (Jan 7, 2010)

It pisses me off when people say they don't personally get their own value out of memberships to organizations like this. Typically they're entirely too self centered to look past themselves and understand that the "Big Picture" is just as important, if not more important than what's right in front of their face. 

Yes, harsh words. Sorry to offend if I did. But, it needs to be said, IMO.

BTW, My membership is due also. I better get on that.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

GChambers said:


> Typically they're entirely too self centered to look past themselves and understand that the "Big Picture" is just as important, if not more important than what's right in front of their face.


That really depends on what exactly is happening in front of their face.

That being said, speaking as a person whose volunteered a bit, i don't particularly like rubber stamped rah rah, as it really is a convenient way to gloss over founded criticism. Since we do find ourselves in a current weird societal phenomenon, where nobody makes mistakes. But even more so, i really don't like unfounded uneducated criticism either.

To keep with the spirit of the thread, when it all comes down to it. Most people seem to rally when something bad happens. Mt. biking is a worthy endeavor to advocate and volunteer for. Most all effort towards the support of advocacy, volunteerism, and stewardship in regards to the recreation and sport is totally worthwhile. Whatever strikes a chord with folk to get over their apathy is neato bandito. Even if your motivation would be strictly selfish and self-serving you are going to benefit someday. As the reality is, if people all were just a tiny bit more proactive, many of the bad things that get the attention may not of ever happened in the first place.

i could speak further to that point, but i prefer to point to all my actions and things i've invested time into to speak towards that.

So reeling it back in then.

i do wish everybody who can afford it, that they could donate for membership to IMBA and their local groups, would simply just do it. i don't think it's justifiable to not support as to getting lots of spam. And in that case this it sorta reminds me of the scene in Reservoir Dogs where all the guys went to the restaurant and Mr. Pink wouldn't tip the waitress.

All the guys put in a buck to tip, Mr. Pink refuses, debate ensues critical of Mr. Pink.

Mr. Pink: I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's ****ed up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government ****s in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And as for this non-college ******** I got two words for that: learn to ****in' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big ****in' surprise.

Little more discussion, the boss Joe comes back from the restroom to find someone at the table didn't put in. Joe ignores Mr. Pinks justification...

Joe: Cough up a buck you cheap bastard.

And Mr. Pink begrudgingly peels off a buck as they all leave...


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## Billy Davis (Dec 12, 2011)

Erik MM said:


> I think so...riding has progressed, and so have trails, and trail "science," thanks in large part to....IMBA (not to mention better bikes)
> 
> like anything 'bureaucratic'/governmental, keeping it local is important, but sometimes getting locals to show up is a difficult task, but an "army of one" is better than none


Yes Sir one person can make a difference but with the right support like IMBA can provide a lot more can be done.


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## chiva (Oct 13, 2010)

With 50 million mountain bikers in the USA we need to rise up and get mtn bikes back into the wilderness areas! It's political suicide for IMBA to do this but we can!


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