# Darwin Award product?



## Clones123 (Apr 29, 2010)

What could be safer than bolting a baby right to your handlebars? I guess maybe buying a spare, rearward facing skewer to keep on your other bike. That way, after you've killed your child with the first bike, you can run right out and commit suicide with your other bike by impaling yourself through the groin! Seriously - this thing mounts directly to your steering stem! And what serious mountain biker would be without a kickstand, eh?










iBert FRONT MOUNT BABY BICYCLE SEAT CHILD KID SAFE NEW 

I've used and enjoyed a child seat that mounts to the top tube just BEHIND the bars. Kind of heavy but it worked pretty well and my kids survived to get their own bikes. Mounting up to 40lbs right on the handlebar though? Seriously? And there are a bunch of these for sale on eBay? How long you figure it will be before somebody tries to mount one of these backwards with the kid out over the front wheel looking back? Wow.


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## 4MooreFitness (Aug 10, 2010)

Better than this : 
From MTB


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## AuntieAPE (Nov 14, 2006)

Yeah - and it works great. I bought one a couple of years ago after reading a review of it right here on MTBR.


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## ADV (Jun 7, 2009)

I was thinking about getting an ibert next year they look like they would work good. My little girl is only 7 weeks old right now so I have some time to look around to see what is all out there. If i dont get an ibert what else is out there that is better?


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## jmpg (Sep 17, 2008)

"How long you figure it will be before somebody tries to mount one of these backwards with the kid out over the front wheel looking back?"

You could't steer. I do think the ibert weight limit is quite low. Up to 12kg, whereas a Weeride allows 25kg for the Kiddie passenger. The ibert is good for younger kiddies as it lies them down flatter and there neck can be supported, so you can start riding earlier

My son and I didn't start riding together with a Weeride until he was nearly 12 months old for a couple of reasons.

1 not enough neck strength and co-ordination (baby boy, not me)
2 straps/harness were too large until he was about 12 months anyway

The pictures on the website seems like the boy is far to big for the Ibert.

Another positve for both the ibert and weeride is the intimacy you have with your child when you ride together. Also your kiddie is "nestled" in your arms as you ride you can here your kid talk/babble and is reassuring for safety. A rear mounted seat doesn't do allow any of that.

The mount of the ibert is a bit suspect and the weeride has some issues but that is over come when you hear the babbling happiness of a smal passenger.


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## nov0798 (Nov 27, 2005)

I know my Ibert works great, and have never had an issue.


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## picassomoon (Jun 16, 2009)

Friend of mine has one. For very mild riding it is no big deal. Think flat smooth doubletrack/fire road or bike paths, places where no one is riding at any real speed and no cars. Obviously not something you buy to rip singletrack on or commute or race or something.


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

it doesn't attach to your handlebars, it attaches to your steerer tube.
funadmental lack of observation/information kind of dis-spells any notion that you're speaking from a knowledgeable standpoint.

thanks for playing.


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## backcountryeti (May 21, 2004)

My daughter loves the ibert seat. It does limit me to only jumping 3 foot gaps as opposed to 8 foot gaps though. The first jump is always the worst...


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## disfocus (Aug 26, 2009)

backcountryeti said:


> My daughter loves the ibert seat. It does limit me to only jumping 3 foot gaps as opposed to 8 foot gaps though. The first jump is always the worst...


True.
Upside is that carefully observing how much her head slams back and forth over stutter-bumps can help you dial in your rebound


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## sunnyracegirl (Apr 11, 2004)

The iBert mounts to the frame, as previously stated.

Specifically, it mounts to 20 mm of stack height on the steer tube and places the child's legs underneath the handlebars. The child's weight is placed squarely over the frame. The effect on the bike is not unlike that of a Hopey steering damper.

This is much more stable than having 35 lbs of child, seat, and rack over the rear tire. Additionally, I can get on and off without having to swing my leg forward over the top tube, like I would have to if my kid were on the rear of the bike.

Were anything to happen with her in the iBert, I could wrap my arms around her. Were she in a rear rack-mounted seat and we took a spill, she would be on her own.

I've had an iBert for almost three months now, and my only regret is not getting one sooner. My two-year-old and I interact, we chat about bunnies we see on the trail, and she dings the bell when she sees anyone.

We rode trail 1 at the Interbike dirt demo about six times, and got the BMX track a few times as well. She kept wanting to go again and again. The only thing you can't do with your kid on the front in an iBert is finesse the fork... so, no G-outs.

This is us at Interbike last week. We had a blaaaaassssttt!!









(it's a 2002 Turner RFX with 5.5" travel)


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## disfocus (Aug 26, 2009)

That looks like fun :thumbsup: 
It's the only real bummer about having a second one--I've had to ditch the wee-ride for a trailer. Not nearly as enjoyable, and a lot less communication going on.


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## wvucyclist (Nov 8, 2007)

sunnyracegirl said:


> This is much more stable than having 35 lbs of child, seat, and rack over the rear tire. Additionally, I can get on and off without having to swing my leg forward over the top tube, like I would have to if my kid were on the rear of the bike.
> 
> Were anything to happen with her in the iBert, I could wrap my arms around her. Were she in a rear rack-mounted seat and we took a spill, she would be on her own.


35 lbs on the rear isn't too bad. I usually have almost that much riding to work anyways. It's the higher center of gravity that does it, though I think the Ibert isn't much lower than a regular rear rack mount child seat.

The seat I'm using (copilot taxi) has the plastic sides that go all the way up. so if we spill, he has that to protect against abrasion. If you fall, would you put your arms out to arrest the stop, or would you wrap your arms around your child? Hard to say without it happening really.

I do have to say, my son does not have the best view from the rear mount, and it is awkward when he tries to stick his fingers down my shorts.


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## backcountryeti (May 21, 2004)

I think with a wreck you would need to wrap up your child due to the lower sides of the iBert. I do think though, as long as they would keep their arms and hands in, you as the rider and larger person would take the impact first and keep them from hitting the ground. Luckily I have not had to put that to the test, only one close call. Some idiot did not know what "Do not enter" and "One way" means on a narrow entrance to our local bike path, not to mention an arrow painted on the pavement. It is a weird little hill, and since the iBert is on one of my singlespeeds, I had to gain my momentum to make it up the hill, and it also is a blind curve, hence the one way designation. Luckily my cat like reflexes came into effect, dodged the idiot, only to go off of the pavement into a bush slightly but staying upright. Needless to say that person got an earful.


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## tk1971 (Aug 10, 2007)

My oldest loves the iBert. Having him in the front frees up the rear, so that I can carry the 1 year old in a Burley.

Rode up the Monrovia Sawpit pavement climb with this setup and my wife couldn't keep up. That's pretty steep though.

The only thing I had to do was to get a set back set post since I usually ride a smaller frame bike.

tk


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*What are you talking about, fear monger?*



Clones123 said:


> What could be safer than bolting a baby right to your handlebars? I guess maybe buying a spare, rearward facing skewer to keep on your other bike. That way, after you've killed your child with the first bike, you can run right out and commit suicide with your other bike by impaling yourself through the groin! Seriously - this thing mounts directly to your steering stem! And what serious mountain biker would be without a kickstand, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've seen them. They work great. I personally have a WeeRide, which also works great. I think rear mounted seats have way more potential for disaster. Your bike becomes seriously unbalanced with that much weight back there, and you have to step through the frame to get on or off. If you trip on the top tube while getting on or off, the whole rig goes assover teakettle.

Obviously, you're not going to take your kid to Moab Porcupine Ridge trail on this thing.


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## ridemtn (Aug 25, 2009)

Yeesh, what a troll. Do you take your kid on the highway at 75mph? You know an incident at that speed is almost certainly fatal?

We've never even had so much as a close call with ours, and we love it; the child gets full air suspension. Just take it easy, novel concept.


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## jrabikerepair (Dec 29, 2009)

And that's why I don't sell bike-mounted child seats...


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

jrabikerepair said:


> And that's why I don't sell bike-mounted child seats...


Trying to tell if you're being sarcastic...can't tell over the interwebs.

We've sold plenty of them at our shop, and people seem to really like them. Haven't had a single person come back in demanding a refund because they killed their baby in it.

As others have said, it's not for singletrack, duh! It's for neighborhood or bike path riding. I've known some to take them on singletrack, though, with reportedly no problem. I used a rear mount when my boy was little, as I didn't know about the iBert or Weeride at the time, and even took him on singletrack in it mounted on my hybrid. Never had a problem with those, either.


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## apatron (Feb 9, 2010)

sunnyracegirl said:


> The iBert mounts to the frame, as previously stated.
> 
> Specifically, it mounts to 20 mm of stack height on the steer tube and places the child's legs underneath the handlebars. The child's weight is placed squarely over the frame. The effect on the bike is not unlike that of a Hopey steering damper.
> 
> ...


+1!!!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: NICE!!! I had this on my Turner 5 spot (I thought I was the only one  ) My daughter LOVED this seat. easy to get on and off the bike, easy to steer, great balance for a kiddie seat and worked flawlessly on road, fire road, and mellow single track with no discerable safety issues whatsoever. One of the best designs I've used for Child seats (had traditional top tube mount, rear mount, trail a bike and the iBert) This thing rocks! and best of all you can actually talk to your child and make it a more involved and interactive experience for both of you! My daughter is too big for it now, but I find I miss the talks we used to have on our rides Children can really help you appreciate everything around you:thumbsup:


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## PoorBehavior (Sep 1, 2005)

Jwiffle said:


> Trying to tell if you're being sarcastic...can't tell over the interwebs.
> 
> We've sold plenty of them at our shop, and people seem to really like them. Haven't had a single person come back in demanding a refund because they killed their baby in it.
> 
> As others have said, it's not for singletrack, duh! It's for neighborhood or bike path riding. I've known some to take them on singletrack, though, with reportedly no problem. I used a rear mount when my boy was little, as I didn't know about the iBert or Weeride at the time, and even took him on singletrack in it mounted on my hybrid. Never had a problem with those, either.


You sold a lot of them and no one has complained that they killed or injured their kid using them. 
I guess that says it all, it must be perfectly safe. 
Personally I don't care if someone has complained, I look at it, I think about what can go wrong, and I see a lot more that can go wrong than with a trailer. My opinion. I don't remember planning any of my superman impressions, I don't remember thinking that today I am going to have a completely stupid wreck. Whether it is a car or a dog or some kid who went left instead of right, if most people wrecked, and everyone does, that is a long way down to the ground for your kid. They can't control how they fall, they are strapped in, almost three times their body height above the ground and about to slam into the sidewalk, or a tree or a wall or whatever. I think when you apply the worst case scenario, your kids safety is not worth the risk. Mine is sure as hell not so I won't use them. As I remember, it took a lot of convincing to get people to use car seats and stop using lawn darts. I don't see using a seat like this any smarter than allowing your kids to drive in a car without a car seat or play with lawn darts, no matter how much fun it is for them.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

PoorBehavior said:


> You sold a lot of them and no one has complained that they killed or injured their kid using them.
> I guess that says it all, it must be perfectly safe.


I never said nothing could ever happen. Accidents happen. But by your logic, you're scared of them and so everyone else should be, too.

Also by your logic, you shouldn't let your kid ride a bike at all! Do realize that many children end up in the hospital every year just riding their bike around the neighborhood, even when wearing helmets (there are other parts of the body than just the head, after all). A fall off a bicycle at speed is a pretty high distance to fall from.

You have to weigh the risks, but in my opinion, you weigh the risks of using a baby seat higher than is warranted. Used in the proper manner, by someone who can halfway handle a bike, the seats are pretty safe. Will some accidents happen? Yes, of course. But will everybody who uses one endanger their kid's life? No.

Statistically, I would wager that putting your kid in a child seat on the bike is much safer than in a car seat in a car (by that I mean, in a car, even in a car seat).


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## PoorBehavior (Sep 1, 2005)

Jwiffle said:


> I never said nothing could ever happen. Accidents happen. But by your logic, you're scared of them and so everyone else should be, too.
> 
> Also by your logic, you shouldn't let your kid ride a bike at all! Do realize that many children end up in the hospital every year just riding their bike around the neighborhood, even when wearing helmets (there are other parts of the body than just the head, after all). A fall off a bicycle at speed is a pretty high distance to fall from.
> 
> ...


First, at no point did I allude to what anyone else should do. 
Second, in order to mitigate risk you need to evaluate it. You can do that in a number of ways, one is to attempt to identify the frequency and the intensity.
Such as, how likely is it to happen and how serious will the result be if it does happen.

Frequency: I have wrecked on my bike far more often than in my car. Perhaps I have poor bike handling skills or perhaps the nature of using only two wheels is inherently of a higher risk than on four. Every one I have ever met who has ridden a motorcycle for a lengthy period has put it down, more than once. Nature of the beast. I know many people who have never been in a car wreck, that may be a poor comparison but I feel comfortable using it. 
Intensity: I have a Burley trailer and have used it a lot with my children. I have tipped it over at least once with my child inside. If I was to evaluate the inherent risk of a bike mounted child seat to a trailer I would come to a couple conclusions. 
1) If an accident does happen, (I have listed my opinion above) the risk of injury to my child is magnitudes higher in a bike mounted seat as compared to a trailer.
2) If they are injured that injury has a magnitudes higher chance of being a serious injury.

I would , and have, come to these conclusions through observation and experience. A child strapped into a trailer is much closer to the ground and often has a protective cage around them. When the bike hits the ground the trailer is often left it it's original orientation. 
None of this can be said for a bike mounted seat.

As far as being scared, you are right, I am scared, more often than not of making a poor decision because I am being lazy or more considerate of what I want than what I know is right. It may be because I am older and have personally witnessed what can go wrong. I have jumped out of enough airplanes, detonated enough demo and been shot at in stupidity enough times to realize that there are enough natural risks in everyday life without me adding to it. I still go out every day and so do my children but I evaluate the risks involved and mitigate them as I can. From your point of view we should still be letting our kids flop around in the back seat without seat belts hardly able to wait until they get home to play with their new lawn dart set.

This is all me. I did not tell you or anyone else what they should do. Do what you want. But applying the ad hoc appeal to numbers fallacy of I have no complaints from a lot of people so it must be OK is not how I intend to evaluate what is and is not safe. Since the point of these forums is to share experiences, knowledge and opinions, I guess we have both done our part.


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