# Best Mountain Bike Light



## islandtees (Jul 21, 2013)

I need a real good light for some night riding and single track. All off road. No real budget constraints. I want some thing really good. Prefer handle bar mounted.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Lupine Betty :thumbsup:

Gretnabikes.com | Lupine Lighting Systems North America


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

There is no best. It's all a compromise. You already screwed up, "best" by wanting only a bar mount light. Welcome to the world of lights. There is as much to know about lights as there is about the rest of the MTB industry.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

If I only had one light, it's going on the helmet. My additional light is for the bars. It sux moving fast while trying to see around turns with only a handlebar mounted light.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

Exposure Toro on the bar and Diablo on the helmet. No compromises. Well made. Same charger. $250 +$350. And I can use as a flashlight on my dog trail walks.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Scott In MD said:


> Exposure Toro on the bar and Diablo on the helmet. No compromises. Well made. Same charger. $250 +$350. And I can use as a flashlight on my dog trail walks.


That's about as good as it gets.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*I have tried several and I'm liking the DiNotte XML-3's. One for the helmet and one on the bars.
*


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Cleared2land said:


> *I have tried several and I'm liking the DiNotte XML-3's. One for the helmet and one on the bars.
> *
> View attachment 874470
> 
> ...


That looks like a killer set up. Dinotte makes some high quality lights. Would you have any night shots??


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Gharddog03 said:


> That looks like a killer set up. Dinotte makes some high quality lights. Would you have any night shots??


*Interesting that you should say that cause I was just thinkin' about getting some night shots. I'll try and get some.

I can't say enough good things about DiNotte and these lights. 3000 lumens pretty much sets the stage for a fast night ride. With the exception of blind curves and drop-offs, you can't out ride these lights. On high beam, I can get 2.5 hours of serious light from one charge.*


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Outstanding. :thumbsup:


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## flomaster (Feb 11, 2014)

Ok can I play too?

NEW 3800lm 3x Cree Xm-l T6 Led Outdoor Headlight Headlamp Bicycle / Bike Light - Amazon.com

This is a $30 Amazon special light with the Wide Angle lens on the bars and the regular spot lens on the helmet. I adapted these to GoPro mounts thanks to VancBiker and his custom mounts. I am considering getting another bar mount and attaching a spot beam to it as well.

LET THERE BE LIGHT I SAY!

View attachment 874521
View attachment 874522


























I'll try and get some night shots of these, but they are bright that's for sure.

-=Jason=-


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^ I must say that the price is right!


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## flomaster (Feb 11, 2014)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^^ I must say that the price is right!


all in all my total is as follows:

```
$30 light x 2 = $60
$5 Wide Angle Lens
$13 Bar mount
$6 blue thumb screw for helmet
$12 VancBiker Mount x 2 = $24
Total invested: $108
```
for the money this combo is almost untouchable. yeah You can get away without the gopro stuff and save some cash there, but I didn't like those cheap rubber bands these lights come with. I'd like to get side by side with someone who has one of those $150 plus lights and see how well my setup compares.

-=Jason=-


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Yeah, spending $100 for $1000 worth of lumens seems like a good idea, till something goes wrong with those cheap lights. Iv'e done a lot of reading about them, and it's just not worth the possible trouble.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Got posted twice somehow.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Yeah, spending $100 for $1000 worth of lumens seems like a good idea, till something goes wrong with those cheap lights. Iv'e done a lot of reading about them, and it's just not worth the possible trouble.


*Perhaps that's true, but at those prices you could carry an extra one in your pocket. *


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> *Perhaps that's true, but at those prices you could carry an extra one in your pocket. *


Right after you end up in a ditch with a mind full of $ bills because one of your lights failed. And before your house burns down because your batteries caught on file while charging them, because at $30 a light the factory in China had to cut some corners.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Yeah, from someone who has both cheap and expensive, the cheap is hard to beat.

However, over the last 3 seasons I've been using the Dinotte XML-3 dual. And several cheap lights. For some reason I can't quit buying those cheap lights. They're such a good deal until I look back and see that every ride I never leave home w/o the Dinottes. There's always something w/ the cheap lights. Batteries don't last as long anymore, wire frayed and shorting light out, light head just quit working one day and the connectors are VERY spotty as far as actually connecting and staying together. Yet they keep sucking me in. Dammit!!

Bottom line is I never ride w/o the Dinottes.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Besides, the OP said, "No real budget constraints". So, why would people lead him down the road of cheap lights? Just doesn't make any sense. That would be like looking at BMWs and the dealer starts showing you Kia's cars


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

I've only had one of the cheap flashlights give me trouble, and fixed it by resoldering a cold joint. They still use questionably thin amounts of aluminum and cheap wires, but I still haven't managed to crossthread or crack a housing, and no wires have started to go, leaving my box of wiring unscathed. 

I do not use cheap batteries, ever. Protected batteries pulled from US equipment only.

I am enjoying the Gloworm XS I purchased two weeks ago. Ultralight, hella bright, great UI with no annoying fluff. Crazy cheap if you by the head only, yet still comes with a full mounting kit. Nice, wide beam, great color.


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## flomaster (Feb 11, 2014)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Besides, the OP said, "No real budget constraints". So, why would people lead him down the road of cheap lights? Just doesn't make any sense. That would be like looking at BMWs and the dealer starts showing you Kia's cars


I read the title and didn't read the OP's post my bad. I am running lights within my budget at the moment and for now they work great. should these cheap lights fail me i'll look into something different.

-=jason=-


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## chumanji9 (Mar 7, 2013)

I am looking for a light like the OP. I know where to buy all the low cost lights. Can you guys list out some of the shops for the Higher quality lights. The only one I know is Action-LED. What other shops are there?


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Chum-what's your budget?

Gretnabikes.com | Lupine Lighting Systems North America

Action LED Lights - Brilliant lighting for all your biking & outdoor sporting activities.


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## chumanji9 (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks for the link. 
Budget is a very dangerous question since I collect flashlights, lol. I would like to keep it under $300. I was considering just getting just the light head and use the many 18650 batteries that I have already along with one of these holders.
Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case House Cover for Bike Lamp | eBay


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

I was contemplating purchasing the Dinotte 3xml but I already own a pair of Gemini Olympias. I decided to purchase the gloworm XS lighthead ($220) from Jim at action Led due to the true 2200 lumen output and great reviews with gloworm products.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

chumanji9 said:


> Thanks for the link.
> I was considering just getting just the light head and use the many 18650 batteries that I have already along with one of these holders.
> Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case House Cover for Bike Lamp | eBay


FYI: Going above 1800lm is 3A range. Protected batteries need to be rated for at least 2A to avoid cutoff with a 2S2P pack. Cheap batteries can be as low as 1A. Two 2S2P packs in parallel via a y-cable should work with the lowest rated batteries (and provide a 3hr runtime on high


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

islandtees said:


> I need a real good light for some night riding and single track. All off road. No real budget constraints. I want some thing really good. Prefer handle bar mounted.


I'll not argue that the Lupines are top class and offer excellent workmanship. On the other hand there are other lamps that offer specific features very conducive to mountain biking that are more affordable ( even if money is not the core issue ). Case in point; the *Gloworm XS*. While the output of the XS might not exceed or equal the output of Lupines' best it will provide more light than is typically needed for mountain biking. Output should be in the 2000 lumen range using three of the best Cree XM-L2 "U2" emitters.
The design of the XS is top notch. The mount puts the lamp at almost any angle you wish and was specifically designed for the XS. The optics are "interchangeable" so if you want a flood, spot or mix you can do all of those things without too much problem.

The XS also has a great User Interface that allows the user to dial in each mode level to the output they wish and then save it for future use ( otherwise known as "stepless" option ).

Lastly is the fact that the XS is basically designed for the bars. It has a "wired remote control switch" that allows the rider to keep their hands on the bars while changing modes. Lastly the batteries for the GW's are made with Panasonic cells which are the best made. Service from the dealer is very good. If I had the money to buy any lamp I wanted I would buy the Gloworm XS ( if I wanted a bar lamp ). No, I don't own an XS but I do own a couple X2's.

Lupine used to offer lamps with remote control. I'm not sure they still do. If Lupine still offers a lamp with remote I might consider buying one if I had unlimited funds. Anyway if I'm wrong about the lupines I'm sure someone will quickly correct me.

There is also a British made lamp that is also high quality / very high output. Dang it, I forget the name of it . I believe it was using 7 to 9 XM-L's U2's. Sorry I forgot the listed output as well but I'm sure it had to be over 3000 lumen. Price was pretty steep if I recall, somewhere around $700. Someone will probably read this and recall the name. So many lamps out there hard to remember them all.


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## chumanji9 (Mar 7, 2013)

Not to steal the thread from the OP. Looks like Gloworm XS is high on the list as a bar light. What would you guys recommend for a Helmet light. Currently I am using Zebralight H600 MKII with a 2-fish mount. Its compact, light, excellent beam pattern uses a single 18650 and puts out 1000 lumens. But it only lasts 1.5hr at max, and my rides are usually 2 to 2.5hr.

Thx for the battery infor Flamingtaco.


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## LB412 (Nov 28, 2012)

chumanji9 said:


> Not to steal the thread from the OP. Looks like Gloworm XS is high on the list as a bar light. What would you guys recommend for a Helmet light. Currently I am using Zebralight H600 MKII with a 2-fish mount. Its compact, light, excellent beam pattern uses a single 18650 and puts out 1000 lumens. But it only lasts 1.5hr at max, and my rides are usually 2 to 2.5hr.
> 
> Thx for the battery infor Flamingtaco.


Dinotte XML 3 works well on the helmet


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Well said Cat. I agree 100% with you. I do ride with a friend that only buys lupine and the quality is superb. Everything about it is well built including the batteries, charger, plugs, ect. He owns the latest version of the Betty and let me tell you. WoW! Killer beam pattern and killer output. It does indeed have a wireless button to change modes which is very cool. Again if funds are not a factor why not. But that's not my case. XS arrives tomorrow and can't wait to take it out on a night ride and compare it to my Duo and Olympia.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

chumanji9 said:


> Not to steal the thread from the OP. Looks like Gloworm XS is high on the list as a bar light. What would you guys recommend for a Helmet light. Currently I am using Zebralight H600 MKII with a 2-fish mount. Its compact, light, excellent beam pattern uses a single 18650 and puts out 1000 lumens. But it only lasts 1.5hr at max, and my rides are usually 2 to 2.5hr.
> 
> Thx for the battery infor Flamingtaco.


I use a torch on the helmet too during the summer. I like a lite / wireless / self-contained set-up on the helmet. Not the brightest or longest throw but it works. As long as you have a really good bar lamp the beam pattern / throw of the helmet lamp is not so important....BUT there are exceptions. If you are riding in places where you might get a really long-fast down hills with sections that include areas that have very far line-of-sight ( think over 150 ft ) only then do you really want a good helmet lamp that can highlight trail objects at that distance. ( the faster you go the more important this is )

Most places I ride the longest lines-of-sight are maybe 100 ft. My helmet torch can usually handle that without problem. When I'm doing the high speed downhill stuff I want my Xeccon S-12 on the helmet. Not the lightest single emitter lamp made but the throw is fantastic and unlike anything else I own. Beam pattern is narrow so not everyone will want something like that. Lots of good lamps out there that should work well on the helmet but it really depends on the places you ride and personal taste as to which is best.


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## kris7047th (Dec 27, 2013)

I bought a cheap CREE mini flashlight two years ago and it has proven to be very dependable. They are still on sale at amazon for $30 so I bought 2.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

---

IMHO

The best mountain bike light: on bars

one that is evenly weighted so no matter how hard a drop you take the thing stays where you put it. Bad example niterider trinewt and others. no matter how hard you yank the strap, that thing will droop forward when you bounce on stuff.

good example: gemini duo or the clones. Super light, Tiny and centered on it's mount, drops don't affect how the light is aimed.\

also something small so when you have a digger the thing isn't stuck out and getting smashed to bits. good gemini duo sized, bad 'exposure' sized.

------of course your pref matters, above are mine-----

The best mountain bike light: on helmet

There is only one for me and it rules six ways to sunday. A zebralight H600MKII, single 18650 powered, self contained, lightweight, never droops, easy to turn on and easy to swap batteries w/o looking (if I go past 2.5 hours I carry extra 18650)










all other headlamps are PITA, heavier, or have piggyback batteries which bite. zebralight you don't even know it is there. except the fact you have 1000 lumens coming from it. and no having the head on one side doesn't affect anything...in fact it increases depth perception vs one exactly centered between the eyes, due to parallax between left and right eye, and the biased shadow.


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## islandtees (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies. The XS seems to keep popping up all over the internet as a great light. The price is not bad for what you get. This may be good for me.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

127.0.0.1 said:


> all other headlamps are PITA, heavier, or have piggyback batteries which bite. zebralight you don't even know it is there. except the fact you have 1000 lumens coming from it. and no having the head on one side doesn't affect anything...in fact it increases depth perception vs one exactly centered between the eyes, due to parallax between left and right eye, and the biased shadow.


No way is that putting out 1000 Lumen if it runs for more than an hour (excepting of course Chinese Lumens). The best 18650 available is 3400mAh capacity. You have to run an XML2 at +3A to get close to 1000 lumen.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

^ yes, it is.
this is proven via testing by folks on cpf that the zebralight h600wMkII puts out exacly 1000 lumens. this is the same led and circuit as the zebralight SC600MkII, which was tested. Since it is the same guts, I assume the h600 is identical. did I test it personally no. was it tested by someone testing lights all the time to prove/deny claims yes. does zebralight have a history of fudging lumen numbers, no. never busted. does it blast light yes. good enuf for me.

Light Output (runtimes)
High: H1 1020 Lm (PID, approx 2 hr) or H2 620 Lm (PID, approx 2.5 hrs) / 330 Lm (3.9 hrs) / 150 Lm (11 hrs)

so I got that going for me.

I use NCR3100 and NCR3400's . the 3100 are eagtac protected 18650 and the 3400 are zebralight protected 18650...both NCR (panasonic) guts

and OK you got me at 650 (actual) lumens I have > 2 hour runtime. at 1000 lumens I have 1 hour 40 minutes. I usually run it at 1 level down from high to maximize run.

anyhow, it blows away any other headlight I have used, and i have fiddled with a lot of them...settled on this for total ease of use and practicability. *by 'blow away' I mean the whole package, small, light, never moves around, programming, 18650 powered, mount. it has it all.

everyone should know about zebralight, IMHO. no BS these are top end tools

Headlamp

H600w Mk II 18650 XM-L2 Headlamp Neutral White


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

There is also a British made lamp that is also high quality / very high output. Dang it, I forget the name of it . I believe it was using 7 to 9 XM-L's U2's. Sorry I forgot the listed output as well but I'm sure it had to be over 3000 lumen. Price was pretty steep if I recall, somewhere around $700. Someone will probably read this and recall the name. So many lamps out there hard to remember them all. [/QUOTE]

I believe you are thinking of the lights made by Full Beam. They do some seriously powerful lights and are very well made, not cheap though but they do seen to do end of season sales. I have the Speed LED model, very good. The Night Nemesis iI believe has 12 XPG's lighting up the trail.
I run the Speed LED on the bar and Nightlightning Iblaast IX on the helmet, stupid bright.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

127.0.0.1 said:


> and OK you got me at 650 (actual) lumens I have > 2 hour runtime. at 1000 lumens I have 1 hour 40 minutes. I usually run it at 1 level down from high to maximize run.


Must be some electrical magic over there in Zebralight land.

I have not tested a Zebralight but am going off of published electrical specifications for the LED used and the best 18650 currently available. I'm sure it's a nice light and all but IMO, the claims are exaggerated.

Per the Cree XM-L2 Datasheet, the best bin is a U2. That bin is rated at 975 Lumen at 85C or 1108 Lumen at 25C. There's no way the Zebralight is keeping the LED temp at 25C but it probably keeps it below 85C. So lets assume it is about 1000 Lumen. You need to drive it at 3A or maybe a bit more (I run my XML based lights at 3.5A) to get 1000 lumen. The Vf per the datasheet shows 3.3V at 3A. Thats a demand of 9.9 Watts. The NCR3400 18650 is a nominal 3.7V and 3.4Ah. That's a capacity of 12.58W/hr. 12.58/9.9=1.27 or a hair more than 1 hour 15minutes before the battery is toast. Toss in driver efficiency losses and the numbers get worse.


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## chumanji9 (Mar 7, 2013)

I have the zebralight H600 in neutral white for my helmet as well. It really does put out 1000 lumen....not chinese lumen. I don't have any equipment to measure it but compare to my friend's Fenix BT20 which puts out 700lumen. I see a major different between the two.

Here is a review of the Flashlight version of that headlight.
Zebralight SC600 Mk II L2 (XM-L2, 1x18650) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, VIDEO+


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## chumanji9 (Mar 7, 2013)

127.0.0.1 I notice you are using the zebralight mount for your helmet. Personally I found the 2-fish mount to be much more stable. I think the zebralight mount is too soft for rocky trails. I also mount it at the center of the helmet instead of in the front, it puts less weight on the forehead when the helmet is bouncing up and down on rocky stuff.

I too only get about 1.5hour from my Pana 3400mah battery. Since my rides are 2 to 2.5hr I have to do a battery change...

Here is the link to the 2-fish mount. There are cheaper ebay version around $3....but I like to support people that came up with the original designs.

Amazon.com: Two Fish Unlimited Bike Block Pump Holder (One Strap and Block): Sports & Outdoors


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

chumanji9 said:


> 127.0.0.1 I notice you are using the zebralight mount for your helmet. Personally I found the 2-fish mount to be much more stable. I think the zebralight mount is too soft for rocky trails. I also mount it at the center of the helmet instead of in the front, it puts less weight on the forehead when the helmet is bouncing up and down on rocky stuff.


I ride through a lot of vegetable tunnels... this is the only way I can not snag 
plus easy reach up and twist to aim light downward for road segments

-----------
seems I am getting guff about the lumen rating. it is 1000 lumen, but to argue that you need to argue the data posted by reviewers on another forum, not me as i do not measure it. and true fact zebralight is not known for lies or 'chinese lumen claims' on cpf and blf. it is a US company that specs the light and has them manufactured overseas. my point in bringing up zebalight is I have spent gobs of money and bought a ton of lights in the last two years and pared down and sold all the stuff that was annoying for one reason or another, and settled on what I find is the #1 superior night riding tool for the noggin. I can change the battery while riding one-handed on smooth sections or smooth climbs (but usually stop so i don't risk losing the cap or a cell...takes 20secs at most). it is small, programmable, doesn't budge if I don't want it too. I have 3 of them...original h600w (700-400 lumen), h600wMKII (1000-650 lumen), and H602w flood (1000 lumen wall)

know what? the lumens really do not matter here on the 'but the cree spec sheet says THIS so YOU 127.0.0.1 are wrong...blahblahblah...' once above 500 or so the eye can barely tell the diff of ~100 lumens anyhow. when I have a light that thermally steps down in a 200 lumen chunk I can barely notice a thing, and often don't...unless I am stopped and watching for it. still doesn't mean the ZL is anything less than the best ever, that I have found. YMMV

I am pretty sure the light starts up at 1000 lumens and immediately the PID controller adjusts this by the millisecond throughout the runtime, so it might start at 1000 or 700 and droop up and down in unnoticeable steps. again, no reason to pull out the charts and see who's powerpoint looks best...what matters is riding in the woods.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Just thought I'd add my opinion on the Zebralight controversy; Although I'm quite sure the Zebralight torches are some of the nicest torches made ( as I have one on my wish list ) I have to agree with Vanc that the claims of 1000 lumen are stretching things a bit. It might indeed be very close to 1000 lumen but regardless if used in steady mode ( longer than 10 minutes ) the LED is going to heat up and drop slightly in output the hotter the lamp gets. All LED lamps do this, even with the best heat sinks.

It should also be pointed out that even the best torches have to deal with the limited power supply of a single cell battery. Even with the best Panasonic batteries eventually the driver will not be able to compensate for the drop in voltage when trying to supply the 3A needed to drive the emitter at maximum output. I'd estimate you might be able to get maybe 20 minutes at max output before the driver loses the ability to pump the current up to 3A. If I'm wrong about that I will be very happy because I will definitely be getting one real fast. 

I use a custom XM-L2 drop-in driven very close to 3A. I'm sure that if I ran it on high *_longer than a couple minutes_ the output would start to drop and become quite noticeable after about 20 minutes. ( * drop-ins are usually not very good at sinking heat ) This is why I rarely run my torch on high. When I do run high it is only for the couple minutes needed to descend a hill. Other than that I run only mid-mode. Using it this way the single Panasonic 3100 cell I use will usually last me for my typical 2 hour ride without any problems. If I plan a longer ride I will either use a dedicated bike lamp ( with bigger battery ) or carry an extra cell for the torch ( and switch out mid-ride ).

Anyway, nice to hear that you like the Zebralight torch. They are definitely a well made premium product. When I can afford to drop the coin I might just pick one up.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

127.0.0.1 said:


> 'but the cree spec sheet says THIS so YOU 127.0.0.1 are wrong...blahblahblah...'


I did not say you are wrong. I understand you are repeating/posting claims made by the manufacturer or others. Occasionally I dive into muddy waters of LED output and runtime claims and try to bring a bit of reality to the forum. This is not intended to call you out, but to try to keep this forum a little closer to reality. IME engineering data from the manufacturer of the components used in a light is the better source to estimate performance numbers than relying on information from the seller of a light.

I did look at the CPF review linked by chumanji9, and it seems to support my position that it does not achieve the runtime claims by Zebralight. This graph appears to show that at ~40 minutes there is a major drop in output due to low battery voltage using a 3100mAh capacity cell....

https://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/selfbuilt/2013/SC600II-3100Runtimes.gif

This is clipped from the manufacturers spec...

Light Output (runtimes)
High: H1 1100 Lm (PID, approx 2 hr)......(clipped out the detailing of runtime at lower levels)

If one were reading specs, this seems to indicate that it will run at 1100 Lumen for approximately 2 hours.

It would be nice to keep real performance numbers in this forum. Might prevent some poor schmuck from going out for an hour ride on high beam and thinking "hey, they say it will run for 2 hours on high so I'll be fine", and end up in the dark or near dark "limp mode" 20 minutes from finishing.

PS. Never ride trails with one light, always have some kind of usable backup system.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> I did look at the CPF review linked by chumanji9, and it seems to support my position that it does not achieve the runtime claims by Zebralight. This graph appears to show that at ~40 minutes there is a major drop in output due to low battery voltage using a 3100mAh capacity cell....
> 
> https://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/selfbuilt/2013/SC600II-3100Runtimes.gif
> 
> .


I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Zebralight torches incorporate a circuit that tapers the current back very subtly ( rather than suddenly ) when the lamp begins to heat up. This helps explain what is seen in the graph. According to the graph there is nearly a 25% drop in output after about 20 minutes ( when used with proper cooling ). Likely this is brought about by the thermal protection circuit doing the job it was designed to do. Notice that when there is no cooling that the output drops more quickly and much farther down than when used with a fan. Obviously the thermal protection reacts very well when no cooling is being used.

Now if you do as I suggested and use the high mode sparingly you will likely get a brighter output when you need it the most. Anyway, this is also reflected in the data sheets provided by Cree that clearly show that when the emitters are over-heated that they will drop in luminous output. If you can keep the heat losses down to ~10-12% you've done well. Once it gets over 20% the loss of output becomes more obvious.

Nothing wrong with using torches but it does require a different "use" strategy because of the thermal limitations of the lamp as well as the capacity limitations of a single cell power source. Torches are basically designed for quick on/off usage. As such one must keep that in mind when using them for longer periods of time.

Summarizing, it is better to modulate the output manually than letting the protection circuit do it's job. Once you've reached the threshold of the thermal circuit you're not going to get full output again until the lamp cools down...AND that may take a while. :thumbsup:


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

I'll restate it. it is as bright as i need it for big ringing around the woods for 2 hours then I can easily pull an 18650 from my camelbak belt pocket and toss in a freshie


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## kao (Mar 28, 2014)

I have bought a great bike light last week.
Is there anyone tell me how can I upload the photo?


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

kao said:


> I have bought a great bike light last week.
> Is there anyone tell me how can I upload the photo?


Get a photobucket account. Upload the picture to you photobucket album then copy the image link and paste here on the forum. That's one way of doing it.


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## jl (Feb 23, 2004)

I think you need 10 posts to post any pics. You can upload to a google photos, or something similar and link to your post using an 'img' tag.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

It's not a deal breaker but I don't need Gloworm's remote-only switch for a bar light, and when you don't need something like that it can be a hassle. Thought for sure I'd pick up an XS, but *maybe* I'll pick up a Wilma. At this level to a certain extent you can't really lose.


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## av8or (Jun 9, 2013)

when it comes to lights, you get what you pay for.. never skimp on lights.. I have a cygolite with 1000 lumens on my handle bar and a serfas true 1500 lumens on my helmet.. both have batteries which are good for 3hrs on high.. paid more than $300 per light, but totally worth it imho..


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## J_R_A (Dec 15, 2011)

Serfas True 1000 you can get them now for 100.00 or a 1500 for 130.00 which is a crazy deal.

I nite ride for 2-2:45 a week and I charge it twice a month without worry. It's advertised run time of is 4hrs @1k lm is way conservative. The beam is plenty wide and keeps the trail lit in dense flowy trails.

It might be considered heavy or ugly....But, this is night riding- Think of it as a 'that' openminded girlfriend who only comes over from 2a.m.-5 a.m. With a lifetime warranty.

And for that price you can grab two


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Agree that the Serfas light on sale now (I think b/c they re-designed it) is probably a great deal for a high-quality light.


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## mauler57 (Mar 26, 2014)

J_R_A said:


> Serfas True 1000 you can get them now for 100.00 or a 1500 for 130.00 which is a crazy deal.
> 
> I nite ride for 2-2:45 a week and I charge it twice a month without worry. It's advertised run time of is 4hrs @1k lm is way conservative. The beam is plenty wide and keeps the trail lit in dense flowy trails.
> 
> ...


Where can you get them for that price?


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## Chrisonabike (Mar 29, 2013)

mauler57 said:


> Where can you get them for that price?


Competitive Cyclist and Back Country (I am thinking they are one in the same) both had them. They are both sold out now. When I called them I was told that they would not be getting more inventory.


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## kjmccarx (Apr 3, 2014)

J_R_A said:


> Serfas True 1000 you can get them now for 100.00 or a 1500 for 130.00 which is a crazy deal.


I have a Serfas 1500 that I use for both road and mountain biking. It is great for riding on trails I'm familiar with, but I was going on a first time ride, I would want two of them.

I always also mount a light on my helmet, I have a Fenix PD30 headlamp that I took the head strap off of, and strapped it to my helmet.

Having a light handlebar mounted AND helmet mounted is a must for me so I can always see the trail in front of me, and see my surroundings.... but you might be fine with one or the other.

If I could go back, I would purchase two Fenix lights instead of the Serfas... It will run you about $180 total, but the option to easily replace batteries and aim each light independently is worth it.
Amazon.com: Fenix BT20 Bike Flashlight, Gray: FENIX: Sports & Outdoors


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## Zomby Woof (MCM700) (May 23, 2004)

J_R_A said:


> Serfas True 1000 you can get them now for 100.00 or a 1500 for 130.00 which is a crazy deal.
> 
> I nite ride for 2-2:45 a week and I charge it twice a month without worry. It's advertised run time of is 4hrs @1k lm is way conservative. The beam is plenty wide and keeps the trail lit in dense flowy trails.
> 
> ...


I haven't seen them anywhere for that low a price but I just ordered the Serfas True 1000+ from JensonUSA for $116 with free shipping. I've seen the 1500 model for closer to $180.
Serfas Tsl-1000+ True 1000+ Headlight > Accessories > Lighting > Front Lights | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop


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## geokite (May 17, 2007)

I switched my helmet light from a Exposure Diablo Mk4 to a Zebralight H600 MKII. Granted I run the ZL on the claimed 660 Lm setting, I can get 1:45 before having to change batteries (3400 batteries). The beam pattern is smoother than the Diablo, no piggy back battery needed, and the mount is flexible (no fear of breaking it in a crash, light mounted or not).

I also have a Zebralight H600F MKII (the floody version) on my handlebar. No regrets, great light. Also run it on the second PID level.

I own four ZL lights now, including the H52 and the SC600 Mk II L2 (in the mail from brightguys). Ya, I'm a fan.

Steve


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## Bronsondude (Apr 23, 2013)

Lupine Betty x2. One for helmet. One for bars. 2 hrs w more then enough lumens. Love my setup. :thumbsup:


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Bronsondude said:


> Lupine Betty x2. One for helmet. One for bars. 2 hrs w more then enough lumens. Love my setup. :thumbsup:


That's some serious lumens.


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## sbvx67 (Mar 9, 2014)

Gharddog03 said:


> That's some serious lumens.


And cash!


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## LB412 (Nov 28, 2012)

cost?


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## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

Gharddog03 said:


> Well said Cat. I agree 100% with you. I do ride with a friend that only buys lupine and the quality is superb. Everything about it is well built including the batteries, charger, plugs, ect. He owns the latest version of the Betty and let me tell you. WoW! Killer beam pattern and killer output. It does indeed have a wireless button to change modes which is very cool. Again if funds are not a factor why not. But that's not my case. XS arrives tomorrow and can't wait to take it out on a night ride and compare it to my Duo and Olympia.


I thought you already had one? But if not, well, prepared to be blown away. Not Lupine Betty bright, but enough light for any ride at almost any point. I had an Olympia and Duo, and it does not even come close to the XS. The beam pattern is just much better IMO. Not quiet as cleaned up as the Lupines, but a big improvement on the X2 v2.


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## diylighter (Sep 4, 2008)

Hope you don't mind me revitalizing this thread but a lot changes in 3 years with lights and I'm thinking about upgrading my Zebralight H600W mk II for one of the newer models. I'll definitely go neutral white again to match Fenix BC30 on the bars, but having a hard time deciding between 2 headlamps XHP35 or 50.2 or even a helmet mounted flashlight to go with the existing headlamp. Sent an email to Z but they didn't get back the same day so left to wonder if I should get a spot with less lumens or standard with more. It's a big difference in lumens 2300 vs 1400 but also have the feeling that the 2300 will step down quickly to 1300.

Opinions?


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## geokite (May 17, 2007)

diylighter said:


> Hope you don't mind me revitalizing this thread but a lot changes in 3 years with lights and I'm thinking about upgrading my Zebralight H600W mk II for one of the newer models. I'll definitely go neutral white again to match Fenix BC30 on the bars, but having a hard time deciding between 2 headlamps XHP35 or 50.2 or even a helmet mounted flashlight to go with the existing headlamp. Sent an email to Z but they didn't get back the same day so left to wonder if I should get a spot with less lumens or standard with more. It's a big difference in lumens 2300 vs 1400 but also have the feeling that the 2300 will step down quickly to 1300.
> 
> Opinions?


I've been considering upgrading also, with the upcoming release of the Mk4 versions. I would go with a pair of H600Fd MkIV on the handlebar, and H600w MkIV for the helmet. I would not use a flashslight on the helmet, because the angle of the light is harder to adjust.

I would only upgrade for the brightness, as the new UI doesn't do much for me (I only use one brightness, and I single click to get to it).

Steve


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## diylighter (Sep 4, 2008)

geokite said:


> I've been considering upgrading also, with the upcoming release of the Mk4 versions. I would go with a pair of H600Fd MkIV on the handlebar, and H600w MkIV for the helmet. I would not use a flashslight on the helmet, because the angle of the light is harder to adjust.
> 
> I would only upgrade for the brightness, as the new UI doesn't do much for me (I only use one brightness, and I single click to get to it).
> 
> Steve


Thanks Steve. To clarify, I'm only looking for a helmet light, and probably to complement my existing H600w MKII. Only reason for considering the flashlight is for the tighter spot @ 8 degrees vs 12 on the headlamp. Another flashlight choice is actually 14 degrees but 2300 lumens might still have more throw if it doesn't step down quickly. I'm guessing it would, and I'm mostly leaning towards the H600W XHP35. Someone posted that the XHP35 is more optimized for throw than XHP50.2.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtnbikerva1 (Feb 4, 2008)

*1)Lupine for quality and features 2) tie Light and motion or Dinotte*



islandtees said:


> I need a real good light for some night riding and single track. All off road. No real budget constraints. I want some thing really good. Prefer handle bar mounted.


Something you can count on and customer service.
1)LUPINE
2a) Dinotte
2b) Light and Motion


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

diylighter said:


> Thanks Steve. To clarify, I'm only looking for a helmet light, and probably to complement my existing H600w MKII. Only reason for considering the flashlight is for the tighter spot @ 8 degrees vs 12 on the headlamp. Another flashlight choice is actually 14 degrees but 2300 lumens might still have more throw if it doesn't step down quickly. I'm guessing it would, and I'm mostly leaning towards the H600W XHP35. Someone posted that the XHP35 is more optimized for throw than XHP50.2.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not trying to steer you away from the newer Zebralights as I'm sure they are great but there are other options. Nice to have a torch capable of 2300 lumens but lets be real. No torch is going to be able to produce that much light without producing a lot of heat and eating up battery power at the same time. That said I would recommend not buying a torch that provides more than 1200 lumen and then hope it has a nice 600-700 lumen mode that still has the throw to outreach your Fenix BC30 ( on the bars ).

Just recently I purchased a Convoy M-1 from a dealer called PFlexPro. I was able to chose the emitter I wanted , the tint, the button switch ( reverse clicky vs. forward clicky ) and the driver. Convoy M-1 with XPL-HI has excellent throw. Output is at 3.8A on high and listed ~1100 lumen. Outstanding throw. Even on it's 600-700 mode it easily outreaches my Raveman PR-1200 bar lamp ( when set on single emitter ).

Anyway, just making the point that if you're using a torch as a helmet lamp your work-horse mode is going to be in the 600-700 lumen range. I just took a quick look at the Zebralight website. SC600w Mk IV 18650 XHP35 Neutral White Flashlight looks like a very nice option. The H2 mode is about 875 lumen and that should work fine although I'm sure their estimated run time of 2.2 hrs. is based upon the fact that the thermal management circuit will regulate the output and keep the torch from over heating.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Not trying to steer you away from the newer Zebralights as I'm sure they are great but there are other options. Nice to have a torch capable of 2300 lumens but lets be real. No torch is going to be able to produce that much light without producing a lot of heat and eating up battery power at the same time. That said I would recommend not buying a torch that provides more than 1200 lumen and then hope it has a nice 600-700 lumen mode that still has the throw to outreach your Fenix BC30 ( on the bars ).
> 
> Just recently I purchased a Convoy M-1 from a dealer called PFlexPro. I was able to chose the emitter I wanted , the tint, the button switch ( reverse clicky vs. forward clicky ) and the driver. Convoy M-1 with XPL-HI has excellent throw. Output is at 3.8A on high and listed ~1100 lumen. Outstanding throw. Even on it's 600-700 mode it easily outreaches my Raveman PR-1200 bar lamp ( when set on single emitter ).
> 
> Anyway, just making the point that if you're using a torch as a helmet lamp your work-horse mode is going to be in the 600-700 lumen range. I just took a quick look at the Zebralight website. SC600w Mk IV 18650 XHP35 Neutral White Flashlight looks like a very nice option. The H2 mode is about 875 lumen and that should work fine although I'm sure their estimated run time of 2.2 hrs. is based upon the fact that the thermal management circuit will regulate the output and keep the torch from over heating.


Just following up on what I had to say about the Zebralight option ( above ). About a couple years ago I finally bought one of the Zebralight P-style helmet / headlamps. I don't remember the actual model but I think it was the H600w Mk IV with XHP35 emitter. Never really used on the bike too much as I'm of the opinion that the lamp just couldn't produce enough forward throw. ( Mine is using the XHP-35 NW 4500K emitter. Beautiful tint and wide beam pattern, perfect for hiking. Thing is mine has apparently developed a failure in the circuitry that monitors the battery voltage. Zebralight torches are suppose to include a circuit that prevents the battery from over discharging. Hence, no need for protected batteries.

Now a couple weeks ago I got mine out to use while I was working on something in my home. _It had inside one of my newest ( non-protected ) LG 3500mAh cells._ When I tried to turn it on the lamp would not turn on. I thought maybe I just forgot to turn the lamp off the last time I used it but when I tried to recharge the cell the cell would not take a charge. It became obvious to me that the cell had completely discharged down to 0-volts. At zero volts the battery loses it's sense of polarity and can not be charged after that. This is something the ZL circuitry should not have allowed to happen. I should note here that I did not have any problems leaving a cell in the torch before so I figured something must have gone wrong within the driver. I tried another ( older cell ) and it too ended up completely draining the cell by the next day. :nono:

The lamp still works but I doubt now that it will get much use. ( $89...*flush* ) Yes, I know I can unscrew the end cap on the torch but I shouldn't have to do that. Looks like the quality of the Zebralight's is not what I was expecting. ( Note; the Zebralight cutoff voltage is suppose to be 2.7 volts, hence no need to run protected cells.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

I have about 8 18650 ZL's, and none have issues. I am a cap unscrewer and also use protected cells so would never know if I have this issue...

had an AA ZL that died early in life for no reason. just a paperweight. pissed me off a bit

CF commenters say ZL quality could be better but they warranty readily and if you get one that works it works. and of course they work but maybe the dropout rate could be lower.


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## hwcn (Jul 31, 2010)

127.0.0.1 said:


> I have about 8 18650 ZL's, and none have issues. I am a cap unscrewer and also use protected cells so would never know if I have this issue...
> 
> had an AA ZL that died early in life for no reason. just a paperweight. pissed me off a bit
> 
> CF commenters say ZL quality could be better but they warranty readily and if you get one that works it works. and of course they work but maybe the dropout rate could be lower.


Based on their current offerings, can u recommend a specific model Zebra Light for helmet Mount application please. Thanks!


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

h600w MK IV

I use one on the helmet and a carry spare one inside my camelbak strap pocket

as either a battery holder for a fresh 18650, 
or spare whole light. swapping 18650 with a quick 
stop on trail is trivial, no need to dismount helmet 


on handlebars I use a fenix bc30r 2017

gets me through rocky chunk just fine one level below brightest possible


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## hwcn (Jul 31, 2010)

127.0.0.1 said:


> h600w MK IV
> 
> I use one on the helmet and a carry spare one inside my camelbak strap pocket
> 
> ...


Thanks!

Looks like it is on backorder.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

hwcn said:


> Based on their current offerings, can u recommend a specific model Zebra Light for helmet Mount application please. Thanks!


I know this question wasn't directed at me but you need to give more information on how you want to mount it, what type of beam pattern you are expecting and what type of output you want to have. Zebralight has both the "P" style lamp ( 90° angle ) and a regular straight type torch. They also offer different Cree emitters so you have to know what you are looking for as far as output, beam pattern and also tint. I have no other experience with other types of ZL torches other than the one I own. I'll only add that I was disappointed with the beam pattern with the one I bought. Even though I ordered one that was suppose to be more of a spot, the beam pattern was still very wide. As such it wouldn't give me the type of throw I was looking for.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> .... Thing is mine has apparently developed a failure in the circuitry that monitors the battery voltage. Zebralight torches are suppose to include a circuit that prevents the battery from over discharging. Hence, no need for protected batteries.
> 
> Now a couple weeks ago I got mine out to use while I was working on something in my home. _It had inside one of my newest ( non-protected ) LG 3500mAh cells._ When I tried to turn it on the lamp would not turn on. I thought maybe I just forgot to turn the lamp off the last time I used it but when I tried to recharge the cell the cell would not take a charge. It became obvious to me that the cell had completely discharged down to 0-volts. At zero volts the battery loses it's sense of polarity and can not be charged after that. This is something the ZL circuitry should not have allowed to happen. I should note here that I did not have any problems leaving a cell in the torch before so I figured something must have gone wrong within the driver. I tried another ( older cell ) and it too ended up completely draining the cell by the next day. :nono: .


Just a quick follow up on the problem with my Zebralight. I put a fully charged protected Panasonic 3100 cell and kept it in there for a couple days. I pulled the battery out and put it into my smart charger. *The battery took a 789mAh charge.* That's a substantial drop. That means in less than a week the battery would likely fully discharge.

I did get an answer back from Zebralight from the email I sent them. Seems they might be willing to replace or fix it if I send it to them "First" so they can take a look at it. I'll likely do that but need to find a small box to put it in and then find time to go to the post office ( which for me is not easy ). Ah! lucky me. Seems I have a box that is not too big. I have some days off next week so should be able to drop it off at the post office. Oh, almost forgot to mention, turn around time could take 6 weeks according to what they said in their email. I'm in no hurry but that is quite a long time to wait. Being sent to Texas so at least it's inside the USA.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

So a parasitic drain then? Which version is it? 
I just go a newer Zebra MK with the XHP50.2 as my last one was stolen in a vehicle robbery. Was extremely happy with my prior light and the newer version is damn nice too. I do wish there was a setting between high and medium though, and a setting a bit brighter than the lowest setting. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

WHALENARD said:


> So a parasitic drain then? Which version is it?
> I just go a newer Zebra MK with the XHP50.2 as my last one was stolen in a vehicle robbery. Was extremely happy with my prior light and the newer version is damn nice too. I do wish there was a setting between high and medium though, and a setting a bit brighter than the lowest setting.


Have you tried programming the G6/G7 mode groups to get the levels you want?


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

^this though, it could use better sub levels....

the leap between high and medium is huge 
unless you program high, too low,...

High: H1 1400 Lm 
or H2 875 Lm /502 Lm /264 Lm

Medium: M1 127 Lm 
or M2 56.4 Lm /22.9 Lm /8.5 Lm

I use H2 875 as my high, but M1 127 is just too big a drop. I'd like M1 or M2 to be at least 400 [and not fiddle with High to find that 502 sublevel, I want it on the main menu for quick scroll access while riding]


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

WHALENARD said:


> So a parasitic drain then? *Which version is it?*
> I just go a newer Zebra MK with the XHP50.2 as my last one was stolen in a vehicle robbery. Was extremely happy with my prior light and the newer version is damn nice too. I do wish there was a setting between high and medium though, and a setting a bit brighter than the lowest setting.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


The H600w Mk IV with XHP-35 NW. Yes, I was never a fan of the U.I. I set mine up to come on in the high mode ( not boost ) which is suppose I think to be 875 lumen. I too wanted a mode slightly less, somewhere around 600 but I didn't see that in the UI.

*@znomit;* Are you saying the modes can be programmed for the "exact" output you want? I know how to get boost and high and two of the lower levels, one being around 200 lumen which is about perfect for walking or a slow climb on a bike. Would like to change that 200 to about 600 and change the lowest level to 200.

On a side note I've been using my PFlexPro Convoy M1 on the helmet and coupling it with the Fireflies E07 on the bars for Mountain biking. The Convoy M1 tint is at 5000K but has more throw than the E01 I have and the tint blends a little better than the E01 which is at 5700K. Wish I could get the E01 in a 4000-4500K tint but the Fireflies torches are using SST emitters which don't seem to offer any emitter in that temperature range. I'd like to order another M1 from PFlexPro but unfortunately the website has gone dark. Seems the guy running it picked up a large contract and is no longer providing service to everyday folk. Very sad. Hopefully at some point the contract will be finished and he will begin to sell to us commoners again. Hopefully by that time he will offer some options with 21700 cells.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> The H600w Mk IV with XHP-35 NW. Yes, I was never a fan of the U.I. I set mine up to come on in the high mode ( not boost ) which is suppose I think to be 875 lumen. I too wanted a mode slightly less, somewhere around 600 but I didn't see that in the UI.
> 
> *@znomit;* Are you saying the modes can be programmed for the "exact" output you want?


The latest UI has some extra mode groups. You can program any of the 12 brightness levels anywhere. So not any brightness but I think the default levels are spread nicely.

H600w Mk IV 18650 XHP35 Neutral White Headlamp

_*Multiple Mode Groups*
This light comes with three mode groups, G5, G6 and G7. The G5, set as the factory default, can be selected with 5-click from OFF, while G6 and G7 can be selected with 6-click and 7-click from OFF respectively. Mode group selections are memorized after the light is turned off and through battery changes.
In all three mode groups
H can be either H1 or H2; M can be either M1 or M2; L can be either L1 or L2
from OFF: 1-click to H; 2-click to M; press and hold to cycle from L, M to H
In G5
H1 is fixed at 1400Lm, H2 can be 875, 502, or 264Lm
M1 is fixed at 127Lm, M2 can be 56.4, 22.9 or 8.5Lm
L1 is fixed at 2.9Lm, L2 can be 0.92, 0.26, 0.07Lm
In G6 and G7
*H1, H2, M1, M2, L1 and L2 can be programmed to any of the 12 available brightness levels*
Double-click 6 times at the H1, H2, ...L2 to enter the programming mode for that level. Once in the programming mode, use double-click to go up one level and triple-click to go down one level. Use 1-click to exit the programming mode
Three consecutive 5-click (or 6-click, 7-click) to reset the G5 (or G6, G7) back to the factory default settings_


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