# Entry level BB upgrade?



## pasdell (Oct 17, 2016)

Hey guys,

Long time lurker first time poster here. Definite Clyde at 6'7'' 235# on a Large (23 in) Fuji Nevada 1.7 29er. I am on my second square taper BB because I rounded out the stock one (which on my specs is an "FSA, sealed cartridge bearing"). LBS replaced it and for a week or so it was great but then recently I've begun feeling a lot of play when my left pedal hits 12 o'clock and I'm constantly having to tighten and retighten the screw that goes into the right side of my BB. I'm worried this will only get worse and I'll have to upgrade my BB again and possibly more. I guess what I'm asking is for a guy who has now rounded out two entry level square tapers, what upgrades can I make so it doesn't continue to happen and I don't have to continue to replace these parts? I'm an intermediate rider but am still learning the inner workings of my bike, and as much as I want to do the upgrade myself at this point I just want a BB that can withstand my weight and riding style. Any feedback is much appreciated. Thanks!

-P


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## Bhaalgorn (Jul 16, 2015)

pasdell said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Long time lurker first time poster here. Definite Clyde at 6'7'' 235# on a Large (23 in) Fuji Nevada 1.7 29er. I am on my second square taper BB because I rounded out the stock one (which on my specs is an "FSA, sealed cartridge bearing"). LBS replaced it and for a week or so it was great but then recently I've begun feeling a lot of play when my left pedal hits 12 o'clock and I'm constantly having to tighten and retighten the screw that goes into the right side of my BB. I'm worried this will only get worse and I'll have to upgrade my BB again and possibly more. I guess what I'm asking is for a guy who has now rounded out two entry level square tapers, what upgrades can I make so it doesn't continue to happen and I don't have to continue to replace these parts? I'm an intermediate rider but am still learning the inner workings of my bike, and as much as I want to do the upgrade myself at this point I just want a BB that can withstand my weight and riding style. Any feedback is much appreciated. Thanks!
> 
> -P


I started on a square taper and had similar issues. Probably not what you want to hear, but I moved to a new BB system entirely by buying a new bike without a square taper.

Square taper sucks, and you can't just change your bottom bracket. You'll need a new crankset too. Since square taper brackets typically come on entry-level bikes, you'll be putting more into your drivetrain than you've probably spent on the rest of the bike. Hence why I sold the square taper bike and bought something else.

Also, bottom brackets are a pretty complex system if you're not comfortable doing the work on the bike. There are a lot of variables that you have to check to ensure compatibility.

That said, I was able to milk the life out of my square taper BB by applying proper torque to the arm bolt. And replacing the stripped arm was pretty cheap - $20 or so on ebay, iirc. Also, make sure you are properly torquing the bolt -- that makes a world of difference.


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## pasdell (Oct 17, 2016)

Thanks for such a quick response. I am no stranger to to having to tighten that damn bolt but unfortunately I don't have a torque wrench just the old "tighten it down as hard as you can" which actually broke the stock bolt in half, leaving a piece stuck in the BB and thus the LBS replacing my stock, rounded out BB. Although hopefully they torqued it to the right specs when they installed the new BB, but I'm not sure. I know hand tightening as hard as you can is a big no-no amongst all bike mechanics but it's that or don't ride for me a this point. I've tried using PTFE and tightening which has helped but not solved. Loctite is next although I've heard really good and really bad things on here involving loctite. Thankfully the season is coming to a close here where I am so I'll have all winter to make changes/upgrades. I had a feeling that this big of an upgrade would cost more than my bike, which sucks. But, just because I'm curious, what bike did you upgrade to/what components does it have?


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## Bhaalgorn (Jul 16, 2015)

I've had a couple since then.

I started on a Redline Monocog 29er. Really liked it, but in addition to wanting a better drivetrive/BB, I also I wanted to go up a frame size, move to hydro disc brakes and go tubeless.

From there, I went to a C'dale Trail SS 29er. I really like it as well. It had an XT 1x crankset with an EBB (with threaded bearing cups). The EBB was a pain, but I finally figured out that Oatey's pipe joint compound would get it to stop creaking. I'd ride one of these again!

My current stable consists of a fullsquish, 1x10 Trek Rumblefish Pro '13 (I don't recall what what the BB is, but I think it's a BB30 with an XT M780 crankset), a Surly Karate Monkey with a 73mm Hope threaded bottom bracket and Hope crankset, and a Niner RLT9 with a PF30 BB and SRAM Force CX1 crankset. 

I am having a lot of issues with the PF30 bracket on my RLT9, so I'd steer away from it. Overall, I prefer threaded, and 73mm has been beautiful on my SS.


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

Clydes rode square taper for a long time before anything else was invented. I rode square taper for a long time and never had one round off. Mechanical error.
Look around for people upgrading their gears and get a Shimano Hollowtech BB. Tough, cheap and easy to replace bearings.


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## pasdell (Oct 17, 2016)

Awesome, thanks for your input. Forgive the newb-ness but after a simple "Shimano Hollowtech" google there's many different models and numbers, etc. How do I know which one will fit? And does this mean I'll need a compatible crankset as well? I've found a few, a new Deore for around 70$ but its a 2x11 and THAT means I'll have to upgrade or at least change the rear cog to an 11 speed? Bleh, I feel like I'm going down a confusing a potentially expensive path but man like I said damn near anything would be worth it for me to get a BB/crank setup that I won't have to deal with before and after every ride.


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

The bottom bracket and cranks are intrinsically linked. If you have square taper cranks, you have to have a square taper bottom bracket.
There is no reason why you would have rounded off 2 in a short time without mechanical error. Take it back to the bike shop and don't let them tell you it's your weight or anything else. Unless it's years old!
Some scouting on eBay sees a few 9 speed cranksets that, with a new 9 speed cassette on the back, would set you back about $120 or so. It would be a good upgrade from the entry level but I'd push to have the bike shop make it right first.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

It wasn't properly torqued when assembled. After it came loose the first time, it wallowed both the bb and crank arm. Putting the wallowed crank arm on a new bb doesn't work - you have to replace both. I have read that you might be able to get it to work by shimming it with little pieces of aluminum can. Might be worth a try since it doesn't cost anything.


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## pebbles (Jan 13, 2009)

Shimano Zee crankset and BB can be found for less than a $100. Probably outlast the bike.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

TooTallUK said:


> Some scouting on eBay sees a few 9 speed cranksets that, with a new 9 speed cassette on the back, would set you back about $120 or so.


There's some terrible advice right there. If you knocked a zero off the price, that would be an ok solution.
Like pebbles said, you can get a much better, modern crank for less money. Other than stubbornness, why would you insist on keeping the square taper?


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## pasdell (Oct 17, 2016)

Thanks guys! I'm really wanting to get rid of the square taper. I don't think it's mechanical error because it's 2 different BB's and two different guy's installing them. The first guy I wouldn't trust to wash my bike let alone maintenance it but it was a great deal for my budget at the time and he even accidentally ordered me the 1.7 for the 1.9 price. This second BB/setup was put together and looked over by my new LBS and they are historically tried and true. Point being, I weigh a lot and ride hard and I want something that doesn't cost thousands but rather hundreds. I realize that may be more than my bike is worth but it's better than the logical 1000$+ next step total bike upgrade. 

Also, while my girlfriend and I just did some bike shopping for her, I noticed almost every high end bike at this place had external BB's, including the Specialized Jett Comp she ended up getting, so that alone tells me that square tapers are either sub-par, going out of style or both right? 

I have begun the search for an upgrade but with my budget, timing and current life situation that may or may not happen so I'll continue to tinker with the Nevada until I fix it (or more likely break it!) I undid the drive side bolt this morning and hit it and the socket with some degreaser. I removed all the crud and applied a double wrap of PTFE before I tightened it in as hard as I could. No, I don't have a torque wrench. Yes, I realize this is not a conventional or even "right" way to do this but hell, I guess that's a plus to owning a cheaper bike. I'm gonna ride her down to a different LBS to check out a few different frame sizes but from a quick sit and play with the pedals, the "knock" that I was experiencing when my left pedal hit 12 o'clock seems to be barely noticeable if not totally gone. Guess we'll see!


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## pasdell (Oct 17, 2016)

After a quick 3 miles to and from the LBS I have learned several things. First, that my left pedal no longer "knocks" and I tried to ride as hard as I could and jumped my usual curbs, etc. so I am hoping I have more than temporarily fixed it. Second, if I haven't fixed it and it acts up again I will attempt some sort of conversion but if it is fixed (or even if I have to convert it) I am leaning toward keeping the Nevada for the road/lighter stuff and upgrading replacing as I go and getting a fat bike for use on the trails and rougher stuff. Any advice on "affordable" Fatties that are Clyde-worthy? I'll do my research but if anyone out there has one they love, feel free to chime in. Third, I cannot fit on anything less than a 23in 29er frame or a 21 inch Fatty. Four, random I know but damn do I want a dropper now. I sat on an XL Specialized Fatty with one and fell in love, just a tad out of my price range. I am also always all ears to any BB upgrade stuff you guys have for the original thread. Thanks as always and I will do my best to update with any future news, breaks or fixes.


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

Joules said:


> There's some terrible advice right there. If you knocked a zero off the price, that would be an ok solution.
> Like pebbles said, you can get a much better, modern crank for less money. Other than stubbornness, why would you insist on keeping the square taper?


Go on then. $95 for the crankset and then a new cassette, chain and rear mech to go with it. Sounds like that will be a little bit more.
What's wrong with NOS?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Yep. Get a Shimano crankset with external bottom bracket. After you ruin a couple of Shimano bottom brackets, splurge for a Chris King and the greasing tool. I get many many miles from mine and when the bearings did finally start making noise, I sent it to Chris King for new bearings and they sent me an entire new bb for no cost. 
To me, that makes the relatively high cost of admission incredibly easy to swallow.


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## pasdell (Oct 17, 2016)

***Update for anyone whose still along for the ride.

Long story short I found a used 21’’ Specialized Rockhopper online that the previous owner had upgraded with a RockShox fork, Conti TrailKing 2.2's, an Orbea carbon riser bar (which is much too short for me), Ergo grips and it came stock with Tektro hydro brakes (looks like an older model Draco maybe? They just say Tektro on the calipers), and RaceFace cranks and EBB. The frame is too small but the components were a significant step up from my entry level stuff. As a naive beginner in the bike mech world I assumed that I could take all the components off my Fuji and simply replace them with these upgraded albeit used parts. I can hear you more experienced guys laughing from here....

The Fuji is a a great bike and the 23’’ frame fits me perfectly but the stock components are terrible. And, they are so simple they're tough to replace. For instance I wanted to replace the mechanical disc brakes with the Tektro's which fit perfectly. However on the Fuji the brakes and shifters are housed in one singular unit which means I had to take both off and therefore replace them together...

Which leads me to my next bump in this never ending road we call a hobby...The Fuji is a 3x8 and this Spec Rockhopper is a 3x9 so I ended up converting my square taper to the RaceFace EBB and Cranks, used the Rockhopper’s 29'' tires (setup 3x9 still), both derailleurs and switched the brakes. The previous owner cut the RS Fork down too far for it to be worth it. I would have to take one or two spacers away and probably add a 3'' riser bar which is a lot of work especially when I have beat the absolute hell out of this entry level suntour and it's held up just fine. 

I ended up spending a few hundred bucks between used parts (which I can sell piece by piece and hopefully make some back) and getting to know the guys at my LBS REALLY WELL but all in all I have a much stronger crank (or at least it feels that way), an extra gear and most of all hydro brakes which alone have made this conversion worth it. Pics of the finished product are attached. Feel free to comment/constructively criticize....it's not perfect but man is it a lot better! Now the question is which Fat Bike can Santa bring me that will also fit 6’7’’ with a 34 inseam…..:thumbsup:


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## pebbles (Jan 13, 2009)

You could try the other fork and get a cheap riser stem. Should be easy to find, too.


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## johnD (Mar 31, 2010)

Find you a good air sprung fork and your riding will be much more enjoyable.
I went through a few bottom brackets before I finally settled on a Angular Contact BB from Wheels Manufacturing , it has been outstanding, going on almost two years now.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

Bhaalgorn said:


> I started on a square taper and had similar issues. Probably not what you want to hear, but I moved to a new BB system entirely by buying a new bike without a square taper.
> 
> Square taper sucks, and you can't just change your bottom bracket. You'll need a new crankset too. Since square taper brackets typically come on entry-level bikes, you'll be putting more into your drivetrain than you've probably spent on the rest of the bike. Hence why I sold the square taper bike and bought something else.
> 
> ...


This. Forget about polishing the turd, get a new bike.


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## pasdell (Oct 17, 2016)

Thanks as always to everyone who chimed in. Yea, I've come awfully close to calling it quits on this Fuji several times now but my biggest hesitancy is that it fits me well and any new bike I would get is and should be at least 1000$ and even at that price point they're skimping somewhere, especially with regard to any components being "clyde-worthy". Like I said, I've only put about 400$ in it total and am hoping to make some of that back selling some parts. End of the day 400 is still a ways from 1000+ so I'm happy but surely won't be putting much more into this bike, even though an air suspension fork does sound sweet.....


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## johnD (Mar 31, 2010)

If you go with a new bike , look for shops that have or can get old stock from the manufacture. You can literally save hundreds or maybe even a grand or two depending on original msrp ,and walk away with much nicer bike.
Shop for a bike that has good suspension , drivetrain and brakes , wheels can be upgraded as need be. Once you get dialed in and you know what you have and what works and what doesn't work ,you can stay focused on riding and having fun (that's what it's all about imo).
I know for certain Cannondale and Specialized dealers have access to closeouts from the manufacture , they simply login and can see whats available. I'm sure all of the others are the same way.


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## pasdell (Oct 17, 2016)

I actually just completed this mission for my girl. Found a several years old comp model for damn near half the price, still brand new. Problem is we're not 5'5'' ~100lbs or else we wouldn't be here. I guess what I'm asking is, aside from striking very expensive gold at a track day or convention, how can a man of our stature test ride a bike? Not like they can just ask for a jumbo/XXL (regardless of model year) to be sent for a test ride, can they? I have no problem buying site unseen but I need at least some form of reassurance...there's just so much variability between frame sizes and geometries it's rather mind boggling.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Wow! Op went through a lot of trouble for what? Would have been better off looking for a used bike that fits.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

pasdell said:


> I actually just completed this mission for my girl. Found a several years old comp model for damn near half the price, still brand new. Problem is we're not 5'5'' ~100lbs or else we wouldn't be here. I guess what I'm asking is, aside from striking very expensive gold at a track day or convention, how can a man of our stature test ride a bike? Not like they can just ask for a jumbo/XXL (regardless of model year) to be sent for a test ride, can they? I have no problem buying site unseen but I need at least some form of reassurance...there's just so much variability between frame sizes and geometries it's rather mind boggling.


I am surprised the Fuji fits you perfectly but maybe they run really large? Anyway, if it fits you perfectly and you love it then find the two numbers for it and try to find something similar.

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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

That is "Geo" numbers not "two"


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## wreckster (May 22, 2014)

For what it's worth, I was at about 260lbs running square taper single speed a couple years ago. reused square at that, no issue. Not my choice option, but I havent ever had an issue with square taper even being a larger man.


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## iliketexmex (Oct 29, 2016)

wreckster said:


> For what it's worth, I was at about 260lbs running square taper single speed a couple years ago. reused square at that, no issue. Not my choice option, but I havent ever had an issue with square taper even being a larger man.


My experience is similar to wreckster, I was 240, replaced a crank and square taper together, rolled the dice on slightly over torquing the thing. Tight is tight and too tight is broke, so I wouldn't try to break the wrench but it might be worth a try. For me it's been so far so good. I weigh a lot less now but I rode a lot of heavy miles and it has held together so far.


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