# Now I See the Point of Dropper Posts



## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

I've never been against dropper posts but really never saw them as essential. Previously, I have been riding in Michigan where the trails are nice but the descents are not that long. I've therefore never seen the need for a dropper post as I'm almost to the bottom of the hill before I remember to activate it and it seems like a lot of effort to be constantly dropping it for short intervals.

We just moved to Arizona. Long climbs and long descents on some very sketchy and dangerous trails with big sharp rocks and spiky plants everywhere. I'm wearing out brake pads so I'm going to order a dropper post. This seems like a good time to do it. If I ever disparaged dropper posts I'm humbly sorry.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Yep, Midwest, not a huge need for droppers.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

It's the shorter descents where I want it more. If everything is just long descents/climbs, then time-wise it's no big deal if I lower it at the top, but when you got multiple reversals and the closer those are together, the more a dropper comes into it's own.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

flat turns.... 

get that seat down and outa the way to rail the corners.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Did I just time warp back to 2012?


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

How else are you going to raise your saddle up when you want to sit down?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I used to say that the shorter riders had an advantage in cornering. When we taller folk lean, we literally cannot fit between the trees in a corner - we have to stay more upright, which is inherently slower.

Then came the dropper...

-F


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Ailuropoda said:


> I've never been against dropper posts but really never saw them as essential. Previously, I have been riding in Michigan where the trails are nice but the descents are not that long. I've therefore never seen the need for a dropper post as I'm almost to the bottom of the hill before I remember to activate it and it seems like a lot of effort to be constantly dropping it for short intervals.
> 
> We just moved to Arizona. Long climbs and long descents on some very sketchy and dangerous trails with big sharp rocks and spiky plants everywhere. I'm wearing out brake pads so I'm going to order a dropper post. This seems like a good time to do it. If I ever disparaged dropper posts I'm humbly sorry.


Unless riding flat terrain, there's a need for a dropper everywhere. I actually think it's more vital on short but frequent climbs/descents.

You'll wonder how you rode without it, and it'll quickly become a necessity.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

also sound like you need some bigger disc and some metalic pads.

I use my dropper on flat terrain to corner better.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Fleas said:


> I used to say that the shorter riders had an advantage in cornering. When we taller folk lean, we literally cannot fit between the trees in a corner - we have to stay more upright, which is inherently slower.
> 
> Then came the dropper...
> 
> -F


You really shouldnt lean your body anyways......the bike should lean.


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## barelfly (Jun 27, 2008)

Spikey plants all over the place 
hahahahah. Welcome to the desert southwest!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> You really shouldnt lean your body anyways......the bike should lean.


Still has to fit through sideways...
The dropper helps me become much more compact with the bike.

-F


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

Only time my saddle is all the way up is when I'm sitting straight upright and pedaling which is pa really small % of the time I'm on the trail even on easy pedalling XC trails. Most used position is what I would call my "trail" position which is about ~1" lower than all the way up which makes it easier to hover and pedal without the saddle kicking back into your fruits on rooty chunky pedalling sections but tall enough you can still sit and pedal maybe not with 100% efficiency but good enough.


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## dompedro3 (Jan 26, 2004)

I too thought they were ridiculous until i got one. It changed the way I ride. I am in New England with lots of short ups and downs, I expect to wear out my dropper soon.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

As a retro grouch (not really, but I've been riding since 89), it took me forever to transition to taking advantage of my dropper. Now, I totally miss it when I get on my race bike that doesn't have one. Colorado here, so the benefits are seen on pretty much every single ride.

In addition to the really steep stuff, the dropper is definitely useful when railing flat twisty stuff, like this:


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I’m seriously considering a dropper for my road bike.

Seriously.
=sParty


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> I’m seriously considering a dropper for my road bike.
> 
> Seriously.
> =sParty


They seem to becoming more common on gravel bikes, at least. I haven't seen the need yet. I've always thought they could be useful for an easier aero position on road bikes.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Still not sold. I've ridden with them on rentals in Utah and elsewhere. Definitely came in handy for that sort of riding. Really overkill for the majority of what I ride ~90% of the time along and near the US East Coast. Nope on my gravel bike either...


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

edubfromktown said:


> Still not sold. I've ridden with them on rentals in Utah and elsewhere. Definitely came in handy for that sort of riding. Really overkill for the majority of what I ride ~90% of the time along and near the US East Coast. Nope on my gravel bike either...



Why is more range of motion overkill?


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## NWA_Tre (Sep 30, 2021)

BushwackerinPA said:


> You really shouldnt lean your body anyways......the bike should lean.


maybe he meant berms


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

BushwackerinPA said:


> Why is more range of motion overkill?


My 50+ year old bones have sufficient ROM on rides without a dropper. I do not rail turns at high speed as much and have generally backed off aggressive riding on more technical trails/features as I do not bounce as well as I used to.

Purchasing more (potentially high maintenance) gadgets is not what I'm in the market for on two rigid 29er SS's, FS and HT 29 or gravel bike. I ride at the Frederick Watershed, Rothrock and Patapsco or similarly technical trails maybe a handful of times per year or so. A dropper is overkill for what I ride 90% or more of the time.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

dropper are probably safer over features even going slow.....I also meant a dropper gives you more ROM, ROM that is impossible to have with out. Since most of the correct movements in MTB are COM where the seat is typically at on a non dropper bike. Its so different you can literally say that riding without dropper gives you bad habits you will have to unlearn once the bike is as capable as it can be. 

I literally havent touch either of my One-up post since install but yeah most suck for maintence.

Fredrick is pretty tech. Honestly when I am 50 plus only 12 year off.... I hope I have open enough mind to make changes to make a hobby I like more fun, and not some old curmudgeon that apparently can not think objectively.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

No one is doing it wrong here.
If someone wants to ride their mountain bike without a dropper, that's up to them.
I wouldn't consider going without a dropper but that's up to me.
In any case there's no need to imply that because someone rides differently than someone else, that either rider is doing it wrong.
This is one of my favorite things about cycling -- I build the bike I want & I ride that bike the way I want over the terrain I want to ride.
=sParty


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

I have come to love dropper posts. My 3 primary bikes all have droppers. XC FS and XC HT Singlespeed have 80mm droppers, My long travel bike has a 185mm dropper. Even on flat terrain I love dropping the seat for better bike body separation for cornering. It is also nice to lower the seat for rocky bits so I can let the bike move under me more and use my legs to absorb the bike movements without having the seat hit me in the rear. On my singlespeed with the seat down i can climb tech better since I can maneuver the bike under me better. Plus I can keep the seat high for optimum pedal performance when ever I need it. Never have to compromise my high position to have a good position for handling/tech.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

Try watching Friday fails on Pinkbike, they all have droppers, all are using flats and everyone has a 29er. So much for those Theorizes.....


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

tom tom said:


> Try watching Friday fails on Pinkbike, they all have droppers, all are using flats and everyone has a 29er. So much for those Theorizes.....


Because people screw up, the hardware is to blame. Gotcha.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

BushwackerinPA said:


> dropper are probably safer over features even going slow.....I also meant a dropper gives you more ROM, ROM that is impossible to have with out. Since most of the correct movements in MTB are COM where the seat is typically at on a non dropper bike. Its so different you can literally say that riding without dropper gives you bad habits you will have to unlearn once the bike is as capable as it can be.
> 
> I literally havent touch either of my One-up post since install but yeah most suck for maintence.
> 
> Fredrick is pretty tech. Honestly when I am 50 plus only 12 year off.... I hope I have open enough mind to make changes to make a hobby I like more fun, and not some old curmudgeon that apparently can not think objectively.


Yeh sure, I am a technogrouch to some extent after so many years of bike industry marketing LOL

Like I said before- I've ridden bikes with them on terrain where it is warranted. Most of where and what I ride, a dropper is not needed (I slide off the back of my saddle and that works adequately).

If I had a bike wiith > 120mm of travel maybe... otherwise, I don't see the need. Whatever works for you- have at it...


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

why does travel have anything to do with it? The ROM of your body is separate from the suspension travel. I have a rigid and Single Speed hardtail with a dropper... Needed is strong word. Not all terrain needs a dropper but I would contend its better even on the flattest terrain assuming some sort pumping or turning, if pancake flat and straight then yeah no point but who rides trails like that anyways? 

on the friday fails..lots of them are actually on **** bikes please do not make me find an example and just because you have the right equipment does not mean you are not going to make a mistake.

I mean here I just look quickly and I saw two in this video with no dropper. I would go so far that very few have really figured out that some droppers are not even long enough.






sorry but objectively moving back to descend because the seat is in the way, become very objectively wrong when you have a dropper.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

As a tall guy a dropper is a game changer for me. Being able to get me weight low on the bike and move my weight around without the saddle in the way changed the way I ride.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

jeffw-13 said:


> As a tall guy a dropper is a game changer for me. Being able to get me weight low on the bike and move my weight around without the saddle in the way changed the way I ride.


I dont think it matter the height, but I can not know as I am only one height.  I am only 5'8 and I run a 210mm dropper. in fact I think tall guys can move around a full height seat post better than I can with 27 inch inseam.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Dropper has saved my ass more than once on the way home from the brewery. Makes it way easier to get that foot down and stabilize myself at stop signs.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Welcome to AZ. Droppers are mandatory here, you should've been supplied with one at the border.

Seriously though, been riding in Phx since 2003 and the dropper was the single best bike purchase I have ever made for technical riding. I think I use it as much as my shifter. I make minor adjustments much more than dropping it fully. It's so useful to get some room to lean the bike in the corners or over fast rollers... or just generally anytime I don't want full extension, which is much of the time for one reason or another. I'm short fyi.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> . I hope I have open enough mind to make changes to make a hobby I like more fun, and not some old curmudgeon that apparently can not think objectively.


Would only make sense, since you're already the type who is convinced he knows what's best for everyone.

Win any imaginary backyard races lately?

🙄


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

I argue object points about best for everyone. 

whats weird is you really do not see objective points against my points. You just see subjective points and strawman attacks.


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## CEB (Mar 17, 2005)

Dropper seatposts aren't necessary, just like disc brakes. Show of hands who uses rim brakes.

Me, I have XT Discs and KS Lev dropper on my fully and I find it only adds, not takes away, from the riding experience.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> whats weird is you really do not see objective points against my points. You just see subjective points and strawman attacks.


.
What's weird is you couldn't just explain why you like dropper posts without insulting the previous poster and anyone who may disagree with your self-proclaimed 'expert' opinion.
Here, in case you conveniently forgot what you just said as usual:



BushwackerinPA said:


> Fredrick is pretty tech. Honestly when I am 50 plus only 12 year off.... I hope I have open enough mind to make changes to make a hobby I like more fun, and not some old curmudgeon that apparently can not think objectively.


Now, please, get to the part where you tell us again about how great a rider you are without ever actually showing any results.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

BushwackerinPA said:


> I argue object points about best for everyone.
> 
> whats weird is you really do not see objective points against my points. You just see subjective points and strawman attacks.


What's objectively clear is that you can't walk away without telling somebody else that if they don't ride like you do, they're doing it wrong.

Now, walk away. Bet you can't.
=sParty


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> What's objectively clear is that you can't walk away without telling somebody else that if they don't ride like you do, they're doing it wrong.
> 
> Now, walk away. Bet you can't.
> =sParty


Sorry but riding with out a dropper is objectively wrong.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> What's objectively clear is that you can't walk away without telling somebody else that if they don't ride like you do, they're doing it wrong.
> 
> Now, walk away. Bet you can't.
> =sParty


He'll be happy to bet you that he can beat you down his backyard trail as long as he gets to choose and set up your bike for you.
I think $10k was his usual wager. LOL!


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## NWA_Tre (Sep 30, 2021)

I can't imagine riding without a dropper. That's just my take. If you use one for a solid few weeks, and really give it a chance, I'd bet most people would stick with them...dare I say grow to love them. I really wouldn't want to ride without one. If I bought a bike, I wouldn't take it on the trail without throwing a dropper on it...even 100mm. Something.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> He'll be happy to bet you that he can beat you down his backyard trail as long as he gets to choose and set up your bike for you.
> I think $10k was his usual wager. LOL!


So whats your objective point for no dropper?


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

CEB said:


> Show of hands who uses rim brakes


✋hi. 
Would you believe that there's a forum section FULL of people using them?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> So whats your objective point for no dropper?


LOL! You should add 'false equivalence' to the terms you think you understand. 

Me saying "meh, I personally don't really find much use for a certain part" is not remotely the same as you saying "if you don't buy the same parts I buy, not only does it mean you are doing everything wrong, it also means you have have major personality flaws".

See the difference there, Speedy? 🤪


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

MattiThundrrr said:


> ✋hi.
> Would you believe that there's a forum section FULL of people using them?


I hear some riders don't even use gears!!!!

They must be terrible people.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Fun. Can't have it if you don't have a device that automatically lowers the seat. Not objectively possible


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> LOL! You should add 'false equivalence' to the terms you think you understand.
> 
> Me saying "meh, I personally don't really find much use for a certain part" is not remotely the same as you saying "if you don't buy the same parts I buy, not only does it mean you are doing everything wrong, it also means you have have major personality flaws".
> 
> See the difference there, Speedy? 🤪


Son, your still uncapable of making objective argument. "not caring" for something is literally completely subjective. 

but yes people who riding MTB on actual MTB terrain with out one moves in way that are objectively wrong if you compare to what modern skills coach teach people to do.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

I love riding my bike that has a dropper. I love riding my bike that doesn't have a dropper. Different bikes are fun. FS, SS, Rigid, Fat. Variety is fun


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> Son, your still uncapable of making objective argument. "not caring" for something is literally completely subjective.
> 
> but yes people who riding MTB on actual MTB terrain with out one moves in way that are objectively wrong if you compare to what modern skills coach teach people to do.


If someone is riding and having a good time at it, who cares?
Are you and a bunch of other know-it-all wannabes going to be sitting alongside the trails passing out judgment or something?
Any particular reason you believe anyone would GAF if you were?
I mean, we know you're afraid to actually show up to races and put your money where your mouth is, so....?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Bacon Fat said:


> I love riding my bike that has a dropper. I love riding my bike that doesn't have a dropper. Different bikes are fun. FS, SS, Rigid, Fat. Variety is fun


You're doing it wrong.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

MattiThundrrr said:


> Heavy, adds that unnecessary weight up high, raising CG, requires maintenance, costs money, I've been able to ride trails for twenty something years without one so far...


heavier -it is. But weight is not an end all to be all. XC bikes are heavier than ever been but I do not see XC riders clamming for their 26 inch rim brake bikes with NORBA geo. Lets not even gets started on enduro bikes. 

Raising CG - of the bike, but not of the bike and rider. You actually getting a far lower CG while using one.

Cost money - yawn so does biking. Mine cost 250 dollars and lets me ride trail I otherwise would not ride. Seriously I would pay you a person a large amount of money if you can ride a local trail of my choosing. Id even pay your travel if you can do it. 

"being able to ride for XX amount of time" is hardly a measure of success. Honestly no modern enduro or even top level XC rider can go faster witha fixxed post. DH riders already have their posts dropped.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> If someone is riding and having a good time at it, who cares?
> Are you and a bunch of other know-it-all wannabes going to be sitting alongside the trails passing out judgment or something?
> Any particular reason you believe anyone would GAF if you were?
> I mean, we know you're afraid to actually show up to races and put your money where your mouth is, so....?


I could care less what you do or really what anyone does. I am only arguing points. Hoping impressionable noobs do nt think retro grouches are correct.

still just be to clear no real objective reason for no dropper?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

BushwackerinPA said:


> I could care less what you do or really what anyone does. I am only arguing points. Hoping impressionable noobs do nt think retro grouches are correct.
> 
> still just be to clear no real objective reason for no dropper?


Oh, you're still here?

You missed the point entirely. Go back to see if you can find it.

Bet you can't.
=sParty


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## NWA_Tre (Sep 30, 2021)

🍿🍿


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

MattiThundrrr said:


> Fun. Can't have it if you don't have a device that automatically lowers the seat. Not objectively possible


Where did I say you can not have fun? I did not. YOU said it. 

you can but I would bet large sums of money there is stuff you can nt ride with a high seat, that you could ride with low seat. If you close to vermont andt think your a riding god Id throw a large sum of money to get you out to film you. trying.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Wait, How much is this large sum of money?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> I could care less what you do or really what anyone does. I am only arguing points. Hoping impressionable noobs do nt think retro grouches are correct.
> 
> still just be to clear no real objective reason for no dropper?


I don't feel the need to buy things simply because some self-proclaimed internet 'expert' says I have to?

LOL! Oh god, here comes the "I'll bet you..." crap again.

Post some of your race results Speedy.


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## NWA_Tre (Sep 30, 2021)

thread getting closed/deleted in 3...2...


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> I don't feel the need to buy things simply because some self-proclaimed internet 'expert' says I have to?
> 
> LOL! Oh god, here comes the "I'll bet you..." crap again.
> 
> Post some of your race results Speedy.


I dont race anymore. I cant even google results I just tried but I used to be Cat 1 XC, Cat 1 CX, and Cat 3 Road. I just bought a track car and will be spending most weekend doing that. its passion that up until the GME squeeze I did not have enough money to do. MTBing is now cross training for Autoracing. . 

but hey here is an up and down loop with a fairly technical descent. Its a fairly well known riding destination and honestly prove me wrong by going to beat me use what ever bike you want. I did it on a SS hardtail with a dropper. 









adam's camp hot lap - Josh M.'s 4.8 mi mountain bike ride


Josh M. rode 4.8 mi on Aug 15, 2013.




www.strava.com


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> DH riders already have their posts dropped.


And fixed. 🤪


BushwackerinPA said:


> I dont race anymore. I cant even google results I just tried but I used to be Cat 1 XC, Cat 1 CX, and Cat 3 Road. I just bought a track car and will be spending most weekend doing that. its passion that up until the GME squeeze I did not have enough money to do. MTBing is now cross training for Autoracing. .
> 
> but hey here is an up and down loop with a fairly technical descent. Its a fairly well known riding destination and honestly prove me wrong by going to beat me use what ever bike you want. I did it on a SS hardtail with a dropper.
> 
> ...


Why in the world would you ever think 'beating you' (or anyone else) is anywhere on the list of things I (or anyone else) cares about when it comes to riding bikes?

Finally nailing a fly-out 360 on my (non-dropper) BMX bike is probably somewhere around 2 or 3 million times more important to me.
Ride what you like, don't think it makes you 'better' than anyone else. It doesn't.

SS are objectively slower based on all your supposedly important criteria. You're doing it wrong.


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## TippyD (Dec 6, 2017)

Ailuropoda said:


> I've never been against dropper posts but really never saw them as essential. Previously, I have been riding in Michigan where the trails are nice but the descents are not that long. I've therefore never seen the need for a dropper post as I'm almost to the bottom of the hill before I remember to activate it and it seems like a lot of effort to be constantly dropping it for short intervals.
> 
> We just moved to Arizona. Long climbs and long descents on some very sketchy and dangerous trails with big sharp rocks and spiky plants everywhere. I'm wearing out brake pads so I'm going to order a dropper post. This seems like a good time to do it. If I ever disparaged dropper posts I'm humbly sorry.


I ride midwest trails on a ridgid mtb. For me, the dropper post makes me much more capable of riding through rough sections and able to take berms and drops at higher speeds. It makes my rides more enjoyable and safer than when I rode with a fixed seat post. Now that I am 64, I like the safety of getting my COG nice and low to avoid mishaps.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

slapheadmofo said:


> I hear some riders don't even use gears!!!!
> 
> They must be terrible people.


Oh no! That's ME as well- I don't do fixe though!

I do "risk my life" with carbon bits of some sort on all of my bikes so I'm not a total luddite curmudgeon at least 

Managed to ride Amasa Back, The Whole Enchilada, Slickrock, etc. trails in Moab with NO DROPPER (as well as other places in MT and elsewhere).

The horror!

I'm sure if I rented a bike out that way these days it would probably come with a dropper and I'd be happy using it. Just not needed for where/what/how I ride at home 9 out of 10 times at the minimum.

A friend had one of those Canadian manufactured droppers- worked great on the way down but slapped the crap out of his doo dads on the way upppp LOL. He procrastinated on replacing it. I'd LMFAO every time we'd ride and I hear him squeal and then curse like a sailor 🥜

(he since acquired a different one that operates as expected with less "upward gusto").


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

any post i ride is a dropper cause when u try to keep up i drop u bruh


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Better late than never.

I have an XC bike that I use on the road and occasionally mountain biking. The only configuration difference is the seat post. Everything else is the same including the CX tires.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

Sparticus said:


> I’m seriously considering a dropper for my road bike.
> 
> Seriously.
> =sParty


I have a dropper on my road/cross bike, i really like it. Amazing how much a diff it makes on descending. I just did a group ride yesterday where most of the group is closely matched, the others are a bit stronger than me on the flats. On the good long descents we had, i dropped the seat and got into tuck. I was amazed that i caught and passed a couple guys, and they were pedaling and i was coasting! Getting lower into that tuck seems to make the biggest diff as i was wearing baggies and loose fitting long sleeve MTB jersey too and a wide flare drop bar. Makes dh cornering a bit nicer too.


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## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

If I can only have one, rear suspension or dropper post; I take the dropper post every single time. With out hesitation.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

peterk123 said:


> If I can only have one, rear suspension or dropper post; I take the dropper post every single time. With out hesitation.


That's why my hardtail has a dropper.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Dropper posts are so cool that I just installed one on my ski's so I can do moguls faster. 

I also put a dropper post in my 4X4 so I can rock crawl.


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## CEB (Mar 17, 2005)

slapheadmofo said:


> I hear some riders don't even use gears!!!!
> 
> They must be terrible people.


Yeah. You are referring to those that use belt-drive, which have their own problems.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

r-rocket said:


> Dropper posts are so cool that I just installed one on my ski's so I can do moguls faster.
> 
> I also put a dropper post in my 4X4 so I can rock crawl.


I know this is suppose to be a joke....

but could you imagine skiing bumps with out being able to moves you COM around like you can on a bike with a dropper. IMO having a dropper makes riding more like skiing.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I'll admit that I was in the skeptical camp for a while, and now that I've been on one for 5 or so years, I can't imagine riding without one. Much of my skepticism was rooted in the multiple failures I'd experienced due to bad Rockshox and Fox droppers.

Here's one of the biggest advantages of a dropper: unknown terrain.

I was coming down a trail I had never ridden before this weekend, that used to be a FS fire road, but is not super eroded. The water diversion ("earth berm water bar") is still very much intact, however, and some of them are 3-4'+ and you have no clue what is behind them. Literally made by a guy with a D9 sort of thing. They are in no way "jumps" and if you boosted all of them, you'd end up down in a ravine or eat one of the many 18" rocks to the left or right of the main line; I got a bit too frisky, clipped a pedal and almost ate **** after having fun on a couple before that. So, you basically have to suck the bike into you and pray that your chosen line into the non-jump is what will keep you on the straight and narrow. Without a dropper, you'd have to scrub a massive amount of speed or manually lower the seat. Neither sound fun to me.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

BushwackerinPA said:


> I know this is suppose to be a joke....
> 
> but could you imagine skiing bumps with out being able to moves you COM around like you can on a bike with a dropper. IMO having a dropper makes riding more like skiing.


That sounds like telemarking back in the 80's.


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## OutdoorCO (Jul 20, 2021)

I see no advantage in your seat NOT being able to go up and down. There are countless situations where the seat being out of your way helps. I had a hard time getting used to mine when I first got one, a solid day at a bike park with a lot of downhill reps solved that.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

MattiThundrrr said:


> ✋hi.
> Would you believe that there's a forum section FULL of people using them?


I guess maybe there are that many people in the entire solar system in one place still using rim brakes.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

OutdoorCO said:


> I see no advantage in your seat NOT being able to go up and down. There are countless situations where the seat being out of your way helps. I had a hard time getting used to mine when I first got one, a solid day at a bike park with a lot of downhill reps solved that.


I think the dropper nay-sayers would point to expense, complexity, weight.
The benefits of the dropper far outweigh those negative factors to me and obviously the greater mountain biking public as well, but if a rider doesn't feel they need a dropper, well, that's their choice and I respect their decision. They ride their bikes and I ride mine.
Now the front defailure... that's a whole 'nuther subject. 
=sParty


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

peterk123 said:


> If I can only have one, rear suspension or dropper post; I take the dropper post every single time. With out hesitation.


This is how I've been riding my fatbikes during winter for a while now.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

MattiThundrrr said:


> ✋hi.
> Would you believe that there's a forum section FULL of people using them?


Where? I looked for a rim brake specific forum here on MTBR and didn't find one. Is it on another site? Got a link?

I mean, to answer your question directly, no, I don't believe there's a forum section full of people using them. This I gotta see. TIA, MattiThundrrr.
=sParty


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## mhosfelt (Oct 26, 2017)

One thing you don't see mentioned is the advantage of a DP when you have come to a stop on a steep techy uphill and you decide you want to ride back down and try it again. Trying to get back on your bike with the seat up and ride back down is just flat dangerous. This happens to me all the time and putting a leg over the bike with the seat down while pointed down hill is much easier and safer.


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## xcandrew (Dec 30, 2007)

Sparticus said:


> Where? I looked for a rim brake specific forum here on MTBR and didn't find one. Is it on another site? Got a link?
> 
> I mean, to answer your question directly, no, I don't believe there's a forum section full of people using them. This I gotta see. TIA, MattiThundrrr.
> =sParty


He's referring to Vintage, Retro, Classic. I like my rim brakes (cantis and Vs set up with Koolstop salmon pads, 1 finger lever setup, good cable setup) better than the XT M8000 discs I had.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

BushwackerinPA said:


> Son, your still uncapable of making objective argument. "not caring" for something is literally completely subjective.
> 
> but yes people who riding MTB on actual MTB terrain with out one moves in way that are objectively wrong if you compare to what modern skills coach teach people to do.


I do just fine thanks, "on actual MTB terrain"- ridden this w/o dropper (at a slower pace) a number of times in the past decade: So THIS is what East Coast jank feels like (50 state shred). 

Many have done it ("objectively wrong" as you say) for quite a long time. Droppers can change the game for sure and if you want to use one, have at it.

I ride trails of this technical level <10% of the time each year so for me, there is currently no need or desire for investing in a dropper on one or all of my rides. If I build up a longer travel bike (130 - 150 mm FS is probably next) then I might consider one of them.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Heck, it's your bike, run it any way you want.

The following comments are not directed specifically at you, edub.

A guy could even take the non-driveside crank and pedal off so he could only crank with one leg. Or put skinny rims and 1" wide slick tires on it -- do whatever you want! This is what makes cycling so awesome. We each get to decide what's right for ourselves. Freedom!

Freedumb?

I look at some guys' bike setup and wonder how they ride it. Metaphorically shake my head while physically just smile and keep the conversation on track, whatever the subject may be. Occasionally I may ask in a respectful way, "May I ask why your brake levers face backward?" but always try to do so in a non-judgemental way. I mean like I said, it's their bike -- they should be able to set it up and ride it any way they want.

Meanwhile I genuinely am curious WTF they're thinking. Sometimes self-righteousness can be a heavy burden.
=sParty


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## p0is0n0ak (May 17, 2007)

baker said:


> They seem to becoming more common on gravel bikes, at least. I haven't seen the need yet. I've always thought they could be useful for an easier aero position on road bikes.


Here in Norcal, I have a dropper on my gravel bike to deal with the loose 30% off camber fire roads. The dropper also comes in handy when exploring the preponderance of cow trails available, and yes getting low on fast pavement turns is a blast.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Evidently the point of droppers is to start multi-page arguments on internet forums.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

p0is0n0ak said:


> Here in Norcal, I have a dropper on my gravel bike to deal with the loose 30% off camber fire roads. The dropper also comes in handy when exploring the preponderance of cow trails available, and yes getting low on fast pavement turns is a blast.


That does it -- you've convinced me. I've gotta have one.

I actually use a gravel frame that features internal dropper routing as my road bike so it's already good to go for a stealth dropper. I'm gonna go for it.
=sParty


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

OutdoorCO said:


> I see no advantage in your seat NOT being able to go up and down. There are countless situations where the seat being out of your way helps. I had a hard time getting used to mine when I first got one, a solid day at a bike park with a lot of downhill reps solved that.


I think re-learning how to ride a bike with the seat lowered is definitely an eye-opener to people who previously lived with their seats at roadie height.. Droppers can facilitate that.

Myself, I've ridden hundreds of lift days on 'old school' New England terrain, when everything was pretty much fall-line chunk and 'flow trails' were yet to be invented.
I've also spent countless hours riding BMX and DJ bikes, as well spending most of my formative 'XC' decades riding the techiest trails we could find within a few hours of Boston (ie - Lynn Woods, 'Nam, etc). I've never run my seat jacked up into dirt-roadie position, and still don't. I also don't ride anywhere near as rugged terrain as I used to spend most of my time on, so it's extremely rare I feel the need to mess with my saddle position. 

I tried to like a dropper a few years ago and found I'd rather just ride than **** with buttons for no good reason, then it broke and I ditched it.
Bought a new bike a few months back that came with one; again I'm trying to force myself to find uses for it, but also again, if feels like it's something that I'm fucking with just to **** with it and it's not adding anything to my ride. I'll leave it on for now and mess with it here and there, but when it breaks or needs service, it's most likely just going in the parts pile and a regular old Thomson is going on.


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## p0is0n0ak (May 17, 2007)

Sparticus said:


> That does it -- you've convinced me. I've gotta have one.
> 
> I actually use a gravel frame that features internal dropper routing as my road bike so it's already good to go for a stealth dropper. I'm gonna go for it.
> =sParty


The way I figure it, my adventure bike should be ready for anything, so the dropper is a no brainer. Sure, I may not need it all the time, but lemme tell you, when drifting through clay marbles, that extra lean is golden. I use an internally routed PNW Rainier with a Trans-X hot lap remote. The set-up is clean and trouble free. Sure, there is a bit of a weight penalty, but I was never gonna podium anyway.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> Evidently the point of droppers is to start multi-page arguments on internet forums.


Maybe e-droppers will be even more of a lightning rod


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## blkdout (Oct 3, 2021)

After owning one since only July this year, what surprised me the most is just how much I use it... Constantly! Took a little getting used to but can't imagine a ride without it now.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Sparticus said:


> Occasionally I may ask in a respectful way, "May I ask why your brake levers face backward?"
> =sParty


Ectrodactyly?

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> I tried to like a dropper a few years ago and found I'd rather just ride than **** with buttons for no good reason, then it broke and I ditched it.
> Bought a new bike a few months back that came with one; again I'm trying to force myself to find uses for it, but also again, if feels like it's something that I'm fucking with just to **** with it and it's not adding anything to my ride. I'll leave it on for now and mess with it here and there, but when it breaks or needs service, it's most likely just going in the parts pile and a regular old Thomson is going on.


This was pretty much my approach. I added a dropper to my Heckler. Rarely remembered to use it. Felt like additional weight and complexity that I didn't need. I already knew how to descend well with the post in the way. After all, I learned to ride on 80's/90's bikes with horrible road derived geometry.

Bought a new bike (Banshee Prime) that came with a dropper. Couldn't be bothered to take it off. Told a friend while riding that I never used it, blah blah blah. He said, "Really? I love my dropper. I just think of the button as a turbo button." After that, I'd hit downhills and think, "hit the turbo button." 5 years later...it is second nature to me and I use the dropper in twisty flat stuff, steep downhills, chunk where the seat is in the way, etc. My race bike (Titus Rockstar 29er) still has a rigid post, but I likely wouldn't buy/build another mountain bike without a dropper.

I'll add that at the age of 51, I'm riding techy downhills better than ever. It can't just be fitness! I think the dropper and modern bike can account for most of the improvements.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

WHALENARD said:


> Ectrodactyly?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


Had to look that one up!
=sParty


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

...


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

I could see not running a dropper if my terrain was basically up fire roads and not too technical climbing trails and long descents down. I'd just run a quick release and drop the post before starting to descend. But in rolling terrain absolutely I want a dropper personally.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Sparticus said:


> Where? I looked for a rim brake specific forum here on MTBR and didn't find one. Is it on another site? Got a link?
> 
> I mean, to answer your question directly, no, I don't believe there's a forum section full of people using them. This I gotta see. TIA, MattiThundrrr.
> =sParty


Vintage Retro, Classic. The cutoff is 1998 or something. Most of them are gonna be rim brakes. I can get the link, if it's important. 

PS what do you mean by tia?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

MattiThundrrr said:


> Vintage Retro, Classic. The cutoff is 1998 or something. Most of them are gonna be rim brakes. I can get the link, if it's important.
> 
> PS what do you mean by tia?


TIA = thanks in advance.

Yeah, somebody above mentioned the VRC forum... I didn't make the connection because that forum isn't strictly about rim brakes. In any case thanks for clarifying.
=sParty


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

I'm very curious. When were droppers unleashed on the buying public? How many of y'all are riding trails that were created after that date? Ie were people riding these trails, and then it became impossible afterwards because of droppers?


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## OutdoorCO (Jul 20, 2021)

edubfromktown said:


> Maybe e-droppers will be even more of a lightning rod


If I had the cash I would go to an AXS dropper in a heartbeat. After running AXS shifting all summer, if my dropper would go down with as little effort of my left thumb as possible I would take it. Keeping both hands on the grips as much as possible. No cable to worry about, and don't start about battery blah blah blah, the AXS batteries run for a month easy without any concern.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

MattiThundrrr said:


> I'm very curious. When were droppers unleashed on the buying public? How many of y'all are riding trails that were created after that date? Ie were people riding these trails, and then it became impossible afterwards because of droppers?


Riding without a dropper doesn't make every feature on a trail impossible.
Some features might still be negotiable with the seat up but just more awkward, uncomfortable and unsafe compared to riding the same features with the seat down.
Riding with a dropper does make many features on a trail easier, faster, more fun and much safer.
=sParty


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

MattiThundrrr said:


> I'm very curious. When were droppers unleashed on the buying public? How many of y'all are riding trails that were created after that date?


Guys were running their Klunkers up in the fire roads of the mountains of Santa Cruz back in the seventies. That was about the extent of mountain biking capabilities of the bikes and the rider at that time. Those guys started modifying their bikes and with modifications came the ability to hit the same roads even faster and start venturing onto previously unridable trails.

Bike components and technology evolve, and so does the way you ride the same trails.... or even new ones, built after the advent of the dropper post. 

Stuff changes that makes riding the same trails either easier or faster or both. The dropper is just a tool in the box. No different than big wheels or suspension in terms of purpose.

It's not like you don't already know this though.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## OutdoorCO (Jul 20, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> Riding without a dropper doesn't make every feature on a trail impossible.
> Some features might still be negotiable with the seat up but just more awkward, uncomfortable and unsafe compared to riding the same features with the seat down.
> Riding with a dropper does make many features on a trail easier, faster, more fun and much safer.
> =sParty


I agree with all your statements and add speed. If you want to hit tech, chunder, steeps with more speed and carry that speed, a dropper makes that much easier and safer. Keeping that seat out of the way makes so many trails safer, I remember having to get behind the seat on my old bike, many sketchy instances doing that.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

eatdrinkride said:


> The dropper is just a tool in the box. No different than big wheels or suspension in terms of purpose.


Kinda my point. Some guy invited me to his trails, claiming it is impossible to ride em without. I'm just saying that people were able before. I just lower my seat for trail rides. Not a huge problem. If I need more grunt for a climb, I stand.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

MattiThundrrr said:


> I'm very curious. When were droppers unleashed on the buying public? How many of y'all are riding trails that were created after that date? Ie were people riding these trails, and then it became impossible afterwards because of droppers?


I ran the Hite-Rite when it came out, sometime late 80's I think? Although it was an awkward implementation of the same concept. Kind of akin to what straps and toeclips were to clipless pedals.
The trails we rode before that were gnarly as5 narrow hiking trails filled with wet roots, rocks, and ruts. Kinda funny because we arent allowed to ride those anymore.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Taroroot said:


> The trails we rode before that were gnarly as5 narrow hiking trails filled with wet roots, rocks, and ruts. Kinda funny because we arent allowed to ride those anymore


Still hitting those, along with ATV and game trails. Rail trails here equal abandoned railroad lines.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Why do some riders consider the dropper post a vital necessity while others feel it's superfluous?

Because the dropper ushered in a fundamental and enormous change in the sport of mountain biking.

I got my first mountain bike in 1985. Two years went by before I met another mountain biker (other than bike shop guys, always early adopters). Anyway for two years I looked at mountain biking like hiking except with wheels instead of hiking boots. A fun way to get into nature.

By 1990 XC mountain bike racing was in full swing and the sport wasn't about communing with nature anymore -- now it was about racing around. Well, that and epic backcountry exploration on legacy hiking trails.

But not about hitting features. Not yet.

Disc brakes arrived around the turn of the century. Suspension designs and suspension components were getting much better around that time, too. But "freeriders" were still fringe.

Then the dropper changed everything. Finally riders could get that saddle out of the way which opened up the ability of the average rider to get their wheels in the air.

With a dropper, frame geometry (mostly STA) could change so that the bike served an entirely different purpose for climbing than it did for descending.

Who's satisfied with just riding legacy hiking trails anymore, now that we can enjoy exciting trail entertainment -- features, hips, booters, jumps, drops, gaps, doubles, etc?

The answer may be: those who still get their jollies riding legacy hiking trails and/or doing epic backcountry exploration. Don't need a dropper for that. And nothing wrong with it.

Ride your bike however you like.
=sParty


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Going way off tangent here, but I do still enjoy the old sh1tty fall line hiking trail once in a while. Totally unsustainable trail design and young riders wonder why I'd even choose those trails...nostalgia and reminders of what mountain biking used to be like, I suppose. Nothing wrong with taking your bike for a walk, I like to say.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm still riding almost exclusively 'legacy hiking trails'. It's a long way from southern AZ to a single 'bike park'


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

dysfunction said:


> I'm still riding almost exclusively 'legacy hiking trails'. It's a long way from southern AZ to a single 'bike park'


I'm not a "bike park" guy (ie: ski areas or big engineered jumping zones) but there are several mountain bike specific riding areas within driving distance of my home. All are sprinkled with built & natural features that offer riders the chance to spice up their descent by taking to the air. Needless to say, speed changes everything and nothing is mandatory, but as confidence grows, speed increases and that jump you thought you'd never hit eventually looks like... well... maybe. 
=sParty


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

And of course, the inevitable question of why, while bikes have gotten more capable and the magical dropper post has made the formerly impossible possible (🙄) , trails in general have tended to get easier and more manicured. 

 🤷‍♂️


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Sparticus said:


> Where? I looked for a rim brake specific forum here on MTBR and didn't find one. Is it on another site? Got a link?
> 
> I mean, to answer your question directly, no, I don't believe there's a forum section full of people using them. This I gotta see. TIA, MattiThundrrr.
> =sParty


Maybe it's an AOL chat room? Did you try Asking Jeeves to see if he could find it for you?


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

50 here, and I purchased a Timberjack a couple years ago with every intention of removing the 150 it came with, and replacing with a carbon post. In 2013 I purchased a Giant Trance X 29 and it came with a dropper and I removed it right away, not really even knowing why I would want it. I decided to at least give the 150 a try, and now I can’t see myself with out it. I’m _just_ starting to use it subconsciously, much like you shift, and now see the value in it.

Edit: I also live in AZ.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Remember back in the day when I would get notifications saying I had to spread more rep before giving it to slapheadmofo? Those were the days, droppers have ruined that aspect of mtbr


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

slapheadmofo said:


> And of course, the inevitable question of why, while bikes have gotten more capable and the magical dropper post has made the formerly impossible possible (🙄) , trails in general have tended to get easier and more manicured.
> 
> 🤷‍♂️


Maybe you live in the wrong state, my friend. C'mon out to Orygun. Not only do we have the best backyard, we've got the best beer, too. 

But you can't stay.
=sParty


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Trails have gotten more challenging since the before-dropper days (BD), at least in this part of the country. Like Sparty said, we used to tool around on hiking trails but now there are more intense sections, some natural, some man-made. I ride stuff now that I would never have imagined riding 30+ years ago. I won't claim that it's all due to the invention of the dropper though. There's the evolution of just about everything else in bike design, like suspension and geometry. Plus, I've had another 30+ years of practice since then.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Maybe you live in the wrong state, my friend. C'mon out to Orygun. Not only do we have the best backyard, we've got the best beer, too.
> 
> But you can't stay.
> =sParty


I dunno, I like the whole lack of mosquitoes thing. Might be enough to sell me. 

But as far as building stuff that going to hold a candle to old-school N.E. crap as far as technical challenge?
Hmmmm...might be a fantasy brought on by too much of the low-cost high-quality grass you guys seem to be swimming in. 😉


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> Hmmmm...might be a fantasy brought on by too much of the low-cost high-quality grass you guys seem to be swimming in. 😉



Well that right there is good reason to consider moving west.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I keep hearing about trails having gotten easier. I'm glad I live where I do.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

slapheadmofo said:


> I dunno, I like the whole lack of mosquitoes thing. Might be enough to sell me.
> 
> But as far as building stuff that going to hold a candle to old-school N.E. crap as far as technical challenge?
> Hmmmm...might be a fantasy brought on by too much of the low-cost high-quality grass you guys seem to be swimming in. 😉


Like I said, you can't stay. Sorry. 😂
=sParty


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Nat said:


> Trails have gotten more challenging since the before-dropper days (BD), at least in this part of the country. Like Sparty said, we used to tool around on hiking trails but now there are more intense sections, some natural, some man-made. I ride stuff now that I would never have imagined riding 30+ years ago. I won't claim that it's all due to the invention of the dropper though. There's the evolution of just about everything else in bike design, like suspension and geometry. Plus, I've had another 30+ years of practice since then.


Droppers only became widely used within the past 10 years or so.
There were a lot of trails built in those missing 20 years in your timeline, at least around here. Maybe people in other parts of the country took a few decades off, I dunno?
'Flow trails' were invented, the whole 'freeride' scene pretty much came and went, it's not even remotely realistic to act as if there was nothing but old hiking trails being ridden up until the last decade. Aside from a handful of certain trails at lift served venues, not a lot of builders are putting in highly challenging technical stuff like they used to.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

dysfunction said:


> I keep hearing about trails having gotten easier.


Or is it simply that are more trails now than there were BD, including the easy manicured stuff?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Nat said:


> Or is it simply that are more trails now than there were BD, including the easy manicured stuff?


Do a search of 'trail sanitization'. 
It's not just that there's more easy ones, the dumbing down of existing challenging trails is a thing as well.
There are way more people now riding who think they should never have to put a foot down, and if they do, it's the trail's fault.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

slapheadmofo said:


> Droppers only became widely used within the past 10 years or so.
> There were a lot of trails built in those missing 20 years in your timeline.
> 'Flow trails' were invented, the whole 'freeride' scene pretty much came and went, it's not even remotely realistic to act as if there was nothing but old hiking trails being ridden up until the last decade.


Yeah, you're right. I wrote my post poorly. I had two separate ideas that I merged into one. I meant that:

1.) Trail challenge level has increased over time, at least around here. 
2.) I've been riding 30+ years, which means that originally it was on hiking trails. 

Piss poor posting on my part. Hehhh.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Nat said:


> Or is it simply that are more trails now than there were BD, including the easy manicured stuff?


Could be, but I can't consider that a bad thing. There's the occasional issue with braiding and the occasional trail modification... but I'll be honest, that was a problem in the past too. To argue otherwise, well... no. Just no.

edit: How do we simultaneously have complaints about trails getting too easy, and downhill being a 'blood sport' and having no ridable lines?


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Sparticus said:


> Why do some riders consider the dropper post a vital necessity while others feel it's superfluous?


It definitely stems from early mountain biking having a road bike (high post) centric view of how bikes should be ridden. This is why early bikes were sized by seat tube length and top tube length. A lot of people who rode during that era still have that mindset. This is why their counter argument is centered around how they don't "need" a dropper to ride the same terrain they've been riding all along. Their skill set and riding style revolves around a high post centric mindset. That's where the saddle is supposed to be to them. Why drop it if you don't "need" to.

I started riding MTB trails in the 90's on a BMX bike and didn't see the need for a dropper either but for a different reason. I could ride the local 8 mile loop standing up. I didn't buy a mountain bike until 2017 so I never owned one without a dropper. I now see the value in being able to sit down to pedal though.

I think ultimately this discussion doesn't matter. The older guys don't feel they need a dropper and nearly all new riders getting into the sport will learn to ride with one and will see the benefit. I've never met a single rider who got into the sport in the last few years who decided droppers aren't worth it. We don't have to argue for the benefits of droppers to anyone who hasn't made up their mind or is new to the sport.


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## OutdoorCO (Jul 20, 2021)

Many times trails are being sanitized for the other users, not because of the bikes. For horses especially. At least in Colorado there is so much to choose from you can pick and choose what you want to ride on a daily basis.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

OutdoorCO said:


> Many times trails are being sanitized for the other users, not because of the bikes. For horses especially. At least in Colorado there is so much to choose from you can pick and choose what you want to ride on a daily basis.


Nobody is sanitizing anything for horses up here. They're simply not a presence on MTB trails.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

slapheadmofo said:


> Do a search of 'trail sanitization'.
> It's not just that there's more easy ones, the dumbing down of existing challenging trails is a thing as well.
> There are way more people now riding who think they should never have to put a foot down, and if they do, it's the trail's fault.


Unfortunately that's true also. For example, with the massive increase in trail users over the past couple of years our local network has developed a bunch of alternate lines in order to bypass the more challenging sections, and/or people have reworked the challenging sections to become less challenging. At the same time more challenging sections have also developed. It's a constant battle.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

dysfunction said:


> Could be, but I can't consider that a bad thing. There's the occasional issue with braiding and the occasional trail modification... but I'll be honest, that was a problem in the past too. To argue otherwise, well... no. Just no.
> 
> edit: How do we simultaneously have complaints about trails getting too easy, and downhill being a 'blood sport' and having no ridable lines?


Ha ha, we like to complain a lot?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Nat said:


> Unfortunately that's true also. For example, with the massive increase in trail users over the past couple of years our local network has developed a bunch of alternate lines in order to bypass the more challenging sections, and/or people have reworked the challenging sections to become less challenging.


They must be taking the dropper posts off their fancy new bikes. Only explanation I can think of. 🤪 😉


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

mhosfelt said:


> One thing you don't see mentioned is the advantage of a DP when you have come to a stop on a steep techy uphill and you decide you want to ride back down and try it again. Trying to get back on your bike with the seat up and ride back down is just flat dangerous. This happens to me all the time and putting a leg over the bike with the seat down while pointed down hill is much easier and safer.


I have to admit, I use my Dropper more for getting on/off the bike than anything else........


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## blkdout (Oct 3, 2021)

OldMike said:


> I have to admit, I use my Dropper more for getting on/off the bike than anything else........


lol I wish I remembered to do this more often. About mid leg raise I always regret not dropping it first.

Whether "needed" or not, one thing I can say with certainty, using a dropper doesn't take anything away from the fun factor.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

In 2008 I was like "dropper posts $%k Yes".
Now I'm offended if my dropper post is not at least 180mm long.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

slapheadmofo said:


> Do a search of 'trail sanitization'.
> It's not just that there's more easy ones, the dumbing down of existing challenging trails is a thing as well.
> There are way more people now riding who think they should never have to put a foot down, and if they do, it's the trail's fault.


I'd like to experience your trails, slap. I'm sure the type of riding you do most of the time is not the type of riding I do most of the time. So I'd like to experience it. I still have a rigid bike from 1994 with no dropper. Would that be the bike to bring?
I also think it'd be cool to take you to a couple places I like to ride here in the PNW like Black Rock, Alsea Falls or even my local go-to (Catamount Trail in Silver Falls SP) to introduce you to the kind of riding many of us enjoy out west. So please consider making your way out here sometime.
The rain forested west -- not talking the So Cal west with 10' wide dirt roads some call trails. Much of our singletrack is 10" wide with penalties like rocks or logs hiding in the salal at trail's edge.
Let me know whenever you can arrange a visit. I'll create an exhausting itinerary plus make sure the keg is at least half full. We have a spare room but you gotta be vaccinated plus promise to stay away from my girlfriend.
A dropper is optional but you'll need a bell -- not a damn Timberbell. 
And if you show up with a front defailure, well, sorry but we won't be able to be friends after all. 😂
=sParty


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

jeremy3220 said:


> ... The older guys don't feel they need a dropper ...


Please don't paint with such a broad brush. I'll be 68 in less than a month and I'm a dropper proponent. Though I admit I came to it kicking and screaming. 

That was about 6 years ago. I liked it so much I bought the company.
=sParty


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> I liked it so much I bought the company.


aargh


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Let me know whenever you can arrange a visit. I'll create an exhausting itinerary plus make sure the keg is at least half full. We have a spare room but you gotta be vaccinated plus promise to stay away from my girlfriend.
> A dropper is optional but you'll need a bell -- not a damn Timberbell.
> And if you show up with a front defailure, well, sorry but we won't be able to be friends after all. 😂
> =sParty


Vaxxed, no front mech, ain't making no promises beyond that.
😜


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Nat said:


> Unfortunately that's true also. For example, with the massive increase in trail users over the past couple of years our local network has developed a bunch of alternate lines in order to bypass the more challenging sections, and/or people have reworked the challenging sections to become less challenging. At the same time more challenging sections have also developed. It's a constant battle.



I blame flat pedals more than anything else especially on climbing routes.

the reality is just because someone equipment is good or ideal does nt mean that can ride to their bike capability but "riding to bike capability" is another slippery ableist slope. There are drops and certain trail gaps I do on my Full suspension I do not do on my SS hardtail(both have 200mm droppers to stay OT) could someone else do them on my hardtail? probably but its not like I do not ride my hardtail hard I just avoid some things because I know how rough its can be and how much less margin of error there is. The reality is some of these people by passing what we as better riders deem as easy features probably would not have been out there 10 years ago. Is this a good or bad thing? I really do not know. I am lucky to have an entire area I ride that does not have single machine built trail in, and even the easy trails are not boring. 

This happened to me yesterday on 5 foot drop to transition I have done literally 100s if not 1000s of time. Smooth landing as well but I think the hardtail just creates more stress on the whole system more so than a FS.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CUqS77uF67v/


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

The benefit of a remote activated dropper was apparent to me since I started riding in the 1990s, and I was eagerly awaiting for someone to figure out a way to make it work and market it.

Bought my first dropper (Gravity Dropper) in 2005, and I immediately knew this was a game changer for me. That GD is still in regular use BTW. 16 years and going strong.

Droppers are the single most important innovation in MTB since suspension, IMO.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Everyone forgot about the Gravity Dropper. They were the OG dropper long before the big names got into the game and yet are 100% reliable while everyone was having problems with their newfangled hydro droppers.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

BadgerOne said:


> Everyone forgot about the Gravity Dropper. They were the OG dropper long before the big names got into the game and yet are 100% reliable while everyone was having problems with their newfangled hydro droppers.



Hydro posts STILL suck imo. They are still unreliable, probably better than 5 years ago but honestly still not great. They also come in less drop for a given frame size because the hydro hoses takes up way more room than a cable. I had a bike that I could only run a 125mm Reverb on, but could run a 180mm one up on. My current bike are both running 210 One-up restricted down to 200, but I could only run a 175 on the hardtail or a 150 in a reverb which IMO would be down grade. 

The only reason why Hydro post are so prelevant in pro level riding is due to sponsorship and many of those EWS riders would be objectively faster with more drop if they were allowed to run it.


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## 749800 (Jul 14, 2013)

Sparticus said:


> I’m seriously considering a dropper for my road bike.


I would get one for my "all" road bike, but my main problem is short legs for my height. It is as if I ride with my saddle permanently dropped. There is not much room for it to drop any more.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

I find the hiking trails to be pretty difficult, really tight switchbacks

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

wgscott said:


> I would get one for my "all" road bike, but my main problem is short legs for my height. It is as if I ride with my saddle permanently dropped. There is not much room for it to drop any more.


FWIW I ordered 27.2 dropper & road bar lever a day before departing for a few nights camping trip — which I’m in the middle of now — gotta get a little of what remains of the high country before the snow flies.
Anyway, parts should be awaiting my arrival when I get back home. Then, a beer centric installation session in the garage. Might take most of the day to install that thing. 🤠🙏🏼
=sParty


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

I've never ridden a trail and thought "There is no way I could clear that trail without a dropper". But I can ride it faster, safer, and easier with a dropper.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Even if you don't use it on the trail, it does make it easier to toss your bike in the back of a minivan.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Sparticus said:


> FWIW I ordered 27.2 dropper & road bar lever a day before departing for a few nights camping trip — which I’m in the middle of now — gotta get a little of what remains of the high country before the snow flies.
> Anyway, parts should be awaiting my arrival when I get back home. Then, a beer centric installation session in the garage. Might take most of the day to install that thing. 🤠🙏🏼
> =sParty


So I've had the dropper on my road bike for about a month now. Is it revolutionary? Not so far, but it does offer certain advantages.
First, when not actually riding. That is to say, when getting on or off the bike. I've gotten so used to dropping the seat on my mountain bike every time I want to get off of it that doing so has become second nature. Nice to be able to do the same thing on the road bike.
But for actually riding the road bike with a dropper, I haven't used it a lot. I believe it'll be awesome on long descents but I put the dropper on in mid-October which is end of season when it comes to epic road rides here in the PNW. I live in the Willamette Valley's agricultural center which means a lot of flat cruising and not a lot of climbing/descending. The dropper comes into its own on descents. It'll be summer before I really put this road dropper through its paces a lot.
The Trans-X dropper lever is nice. It's a lever that mount just below the brifter and can be pushed down with the thumb while in the drops or pulled up with the index & middle finger while riding the hoods -- quite ergonomic & convenient.
Was it worth the money (about $270 for PNW dropper post + Trans-X lever)? Not yet. But it is nice to have and I expect there'll be many times next summer when I'm glad I've got it. I've used it enough to know that I do coast downhill faster and more comfortably with the dropper down. Now I need a loooong descent that includes aggressive corners.
=sParty


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> PNW like Black Rock, Alsea Falls or even my local go-to (Catamount Trail in Silver Falls SP)
> A dropper is optional but you'll need a bell -- not a damn Timberbell.
> =sParty


Ah I loved those spots... All ridden without a dropper! Much of my riding in OR was pedal uphill on a logging road for a long ways, then long descents where a quick release was just fine.

Then like OP, I moved to AZ, bought a dropper, and pretty much considered it a necessity there. Maybe even more so suspension.

Now I'm back in the northeast and it's a toss up with the dropper post, though few rides here are too technical/demanding and lots of really short climbs/descents. I can clear everything without a dropper but the dropper does make things more fun.

And agreed on the bell!


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