# Chinese Carbon fatty



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

There's a huge thread over in the 29er forum about carbon Chinese 29er frames. Based on the thread it seems like they've been pretty successful, I can't say I've read all 255(!) pages, but generally people seem pretty happy with the bikes. Basically it looks like a direct sale model where the manufacturer in China sells direct to the public. 

I emailed Peter, who is quite active in the 29er forum, asking if they were considering a fat bike, he responded very quickly saying that they were in the process of making the molds for a fat bike. The 29er frames are going for about $450, if the fat bike is in that range, that's a pretty cheap carbon fat bike frame! 

I sent a follow up email asking for more details about the frames (hub width, geometry, axles). I'll post up when I get a response. 

I'm loving my FB4, every ride is so much fun, but I keep thinking about making it lighter, the weird thing is that I never even think about making my RIP9 lighter. I guess I know I have my RIP where it needs to be from a strength perspective, but the Fatty doesn't see much/any air time, I figure it can be lighter.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

deleted


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## keyhavenpotterer (Feb 22, 2013)

Salted Bikes in Aus Salted Bikes| FATbikes| Australia are selling a carbon fat bike that looks 100% the same as the Borealis Yampa, so at least one company is making and supplying carbon fat frames.

Please press on with your enquiries, lightweight affordable carbon fat bikes cannot be that far away.

Brian


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## Jaredbe (Aug 6, 2007)

Looks good. That bb shell looks small?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## smithcreek (Nov 27, 2012)

keyhavenpotterer said:


> Salted Bikes in Aus Salted Bikes| FATbikes| Australia are selling a carbon fat bike that looks 100% the same as the Borealis Yampa,


I took a look at pics of both and they appear to be similar (like many carbon frames) but definitely not the same. On the other hand, Salted Bikes does sell the "fork with many names" with their own name thrown on it.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Looks like a 190mm rear spacing


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

deleted


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

Very interesting.


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## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

Do you have any contact info for him? I'd definitely be up for one.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

However, it sounds like the molds they are making will be based on these designs. I asked him to let me know when they are making their own to sell. 

His name is PeterQ520 on mtbr and he has his email address in all his posts ([email protected]).


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

The frame looks a lot like the 907 Whiteout Carbon McGrath, they both have the 12mm thru axle rear


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## speedyj (Dec 21, 2010)

Has there been any mention of carbon rims from this supplier?


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

many of the existing high priced carbon name brands are already "chinese carbons"


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

@speedyj: They make 29er carbon rims, it doesn't look like they do fatty rims (yet)

@boogman: indeed, I think most carbon bikes are made in China, I was distinguishing these as being sold from China - from a Chinese company.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

*Nice...*

Super intrigued. Subscribed.


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## Stuey (Aug 6, 2009)

+ Subscribed.


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## willapajames (Dec 18, 2005)

About the only way I could ever afford a carbon bike of any sort is if it's one of these. I'm interested in this, and I don't even like Carbon. But these chinese carbon frames are cheap!


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## Pancake Adventure (Aug 14, 2006)

Ick.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

GoPlayOutside said:


> The frame looks a lot like the 907 Whiteout Carbon McGrath, they both have the 12mm thru axle rear


Yep you're right they cost $2300 pre order just for the frame


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Oh yes. Yes yes yes. Rims yes, fork yes.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> Yep you're right they cost $2300 pre order just for the frame
> View attachment 851607


I think we'd have a nice conversation if you'd allow PMs, no reason for you to have negative rep except there seem to be some real *******s here. Welcome to MTBR...


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Subscribed and interested.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

A couple guys make carbon rims NEW! Borealis CARBONdale Rims! | FAT-BIKE.COM


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## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

Subscribed


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Hmm never noticed but he's a troll I only use links with info not spam, check out his history with the reputation thread?!?


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> Hmm never noticed but he's a troll I only use links with info not spam, check out his history with the reputation thread?!?


Rep is anonymous, so I can't see what you see; i.e. I don't know what you're talking about, but clearly some here are enamored of their ability to hand out negative rep. I gave you +rep, but it doesn't count for anything as I have no "rep power" and some would apparently like to keep it that way. Personally, I only hand out +rep.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Thanks on with the show more fat bike links please


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

Does the 907 mold fit Bud and Lou on clownshoes?


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## maddslacker (Mar 13, 2009)

I chatted with the factory rep just now. He said the frames are currently produced and being tested. Once they are fully tested they will appear on the website for sale.

He anticipates that will be in 2-3 months.

He declined to answer my 170mm/190mm question, and also said they cannot quote prices yet.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

maddslacker said:


> He declined to answer my 170mm/190mm question...


Just curious, what question was that?


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm going to bed dreaming about a carbon fatty with custom paint....


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## maddslacker (Mar 13, 2009)

bikefat said:


> Just curious, what question was that?


You know Very well 'what question'
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/ground-pressure-any-scientist-out-there-888101-2.html#post10827811

Stop being a troll.


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## maddslacker (Mar 13, 2009)

Tincup69 said:


> I'm going to bed dreaming about a carbon fatty with custom paint....


Paraphrased quote from _The Princess Bride_:


> Sleep well, and dream of large *tires*!


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

maddslacker said:


> You know Very well 'what question'
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/ground-pressure-any-scientist-out-there-888101-2.html#post10827811
> 
> Stop being a troll.


 Hope you were kidding, as that was a sincere question on my part, not trolling. My biggest "unknown" regarding fatbikes, is the tradeoff between 170/190 -- I'm new to fatbiking and genuinely trying to learn, hence my questions, even if they seem stupid.


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## maddslacker (Mar 13, 2009)

I simply asked him if they are offering the frame in 170mm or 190mm. He was unable to answer until their prototyping is done.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Thank you.


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

I am just happy there will be another nice used steel or aluminum frame available to me soon as people flock to the carbon!! 

I can hear a Moonie in my Future!


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Looks very good and would be awesome to see more specs/details


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

It seems strange that they can't answer the 170/190 question? I mean its one or the other, you can't easily swap between the two with a carbon mold. To me those frames in the pictures look to be 190. 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the launch date and seeing what pricing looks like.


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## Fat Urkel (May 9, 2013)

willapajames said:


> About the only way I could ever afford a carbon bike of any sort is if it's one of these. I'm interested in this, and I don't even like Carbon. But these chinese carbon frames are cheap!


That's how I justified spending the extra to go Ti. My Grandma Estelle always told me she was "too cheap to buy twice."


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

The 907 was designed around 100mm rims and 26x5" tires


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## keyhavenpotterer (Feb 22, 2013)

Hopefully this frame can take 29er+. It would be a really nice added feature and would make an terrific lightweight 29er+.

Here's a picture of the Borealis Yampa with two bikes shown, one fat and one 29er+.










Brian


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## OFFcourse (Aug 11, 2011)

Carbona!


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## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

OFFcourse said:


> Carbona!


Not glue?


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## 2LO4U2C (Jun 9, 2011)

Subscribed


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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

Subscribed


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## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

Hmmmm....


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

From what I can tell, this is a link to the company web site Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
They make some very nice products, just had a quick look now


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

bikefat said:


> My biggest "unknown" regarding fatbikes, is the tradeoff between 170/190.


170 = narrower Q-factor, but 5" tires on 100 mm rims are difficult to fit without skewing chainline. (170 mm rear hubs are the symmetric version of 17.5 mm offset rear.)
190 = wider Q-factor, but will readily accept 5" tires on 100 mm rims. (These are the symmetric version of 28 mm offset.)

Offset (or a wider hub) means the cassette is moved to the right so the chain gets straight to the chainring without rubbing on the tire.


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## upmtbyader (Jan 5, 2012)

Saul Lumikko said:


> 170 = narrower Q-factor, but 5" tires on 100 mm rims are difficult to fit without skewing chainline. (170 mm rear hubs are the symmetric version of 17.5 mm offset rear.)
> 190 = wider Q-factor, but will readily accept 5" tires on 100 mm rims. (These are the symmetric version of 28 mm offset.)
> 
> Offset (or a wider hub) means the cassette is moved to the right so the chain gets straight to the chainring without rubbing on the tire.


As per the 3 other threads on this topic.... Race Face Turbine 170 and other 1x integrated ring cranks can be used and keep the same q factor and a reasonable chainline while running clownshoes 100 mm rims and bud and lou.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I got another email last night saying the frames would start to be available in the Jan/Feb timeframe.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

smithcreek said:


> I took a look at pics of both and they appear to be similar (like many carbon frames) but definitely not the same. On the other hand, Salted Bikes does sell the "fork with many names" with their own name thrown on it.


Compare the geometry charts of these frames...


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Espen W said:


> Compare the geometry charts of these frames...


Looks the same geo wise!!

From their site:
A lot of hard work and riding has gone into the development of the Sandfly. Needless to say, we're kinda' proud of the end result.

If it's the same frame as the Borealis, geo wise it is what a bunch of crap!!


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## smithcreek (Nov 27, 2012)

Espen W said:


> Compare the geometry charts of these frames...


With regards to my previous quote, in the immortal words of Willy Wonka, "Strike that, reverse it."


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

bdundee said:


> Looks the same geo wise!!
> 
> From their site:
> A lot of hard work and riding has gone into the development of the Sandfly. Needless to say, we're kinda' proud of the end result.
> ...


"Someone" put in a lot of hard work and riding into the development of that frame, they just don't say who.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Hmmm... where can I get some just-like-Borealis rims for cheap?


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

Just gonna throw this out here, back when Trek and specialized announced that they were gonna be making fatbikes, there was a whole lot of hue and cry about how they were just aping the little guys and shoving them out of the way and were just gonna destroy fatbikes/flood the market with cheap crap and destroy fatback, 907, etc.

But apparently, buying a chinese knock-off isn't going to destroy anything, because they're cheap and we all really want carbon fatbikes and 2k is just crazy money for a frame and and and and...

Just sayin, them cheap frames come at a cost. And the cost is, Trek and Specialized don't give a sh!t. They can hold their own against that stuff. But Fatback and 907? Nope. They can't. 

So if y'all want a world where trek and specialized are the kings of the fatbike world, just buy all the cheap carbon fatties you can. No faster way to kill off the little guys who did all the work developing them. And when this does kill off Fatback and 907, you can just blame Trek and specialized, instead of blaming your cheap knock-off. 

my 2 cents. take it for what it's worth.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

buckfiddious said:


> Just gonna throw this out here, back when Trek and specialized announced that they were gonna be making fatbikes, there was a whole lot of hue and cry about how they were just aping the little guys and shoving them out of the way and were just gonna destroy fatbikes/flood the market with cheap crap and destroy fatback, 907, etc.
> 
> But apparently, buying a chinese knock-off isn't going to destroy anything, because they're cheap and we all really want carbon fatbikes and 2k is just crazy money for a frame and and and and...
> 
> ...


True story, well put sir!!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Good point bf, and I appreciate that position. 

I've got two kids in college, so funds are tight, there's no way I can afford a $2,300 frame. After riding my FB4 for a few months I find I really enjoy the fat bike experience, but would really like a lighter bike. 

I can't speak for everyone out there, but from my position if I did buy one of these bikes, I am not taking a bike purchase away from Fatback or 907. If it came down to it, if this cheap carbon fiber bike doesn't pan out, I simply will ride the FB4 and won't buy another bike right now. 

I do have pangs of guilt in thinking about these frames (and the FB4), but I don't really understand the legal ramifications of mold ownership etc. I hate to support thievery, I guess I assume that whatever they are doing is legal or it would be challenged, maybe that's naive. Like it or not, 907 and other high end bike manufacturers will have to combat the low end retailers, its a fact of life for them. Frankly I doubt anyone who is looking at a CF Beargrease would be tempted by a no-name Chinese frame, I could be wrong there, but if I had the cash, there would be a Beargrease in my shed right now. 

Regardless of those pangs, me buying one of those frames is not hurting 907 or Fatback; me having two kids in college is definitely hurting them, but that's not going to change. I dream about buying a high zoot bike at some time in my life, a no-holds-barred-full-on-blinged-out bike, but that's many years away at this point.


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

Jisch said:


> Good point bf, and I appreciate that position.
> 
> I've got two kids in college, so funds are tight, there's no way I can afford a $2,300 frame. After riding my FB4 for a few months I find I really enjoy the fat bike experience, but would really like a lighter bike.
> 
> ...


You can justify it any way you like. Don't make it right.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

preach on! I thought about chinese carbon but decided on 907. A bike that is a few lbs heavier will make my 22lb hardtail feel that much lighter in spring!


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## keyhavenpotterer (Feb 22, 2013)

Of all the people in the world, you US guys should understand and support free markets.

There are expensive 29ers, custom 29ers and cheap copy 29ers. All being produced and all being bought at the price point each customer can afford.

Fat bikes will be just the same, best of all more and more riders will enjoy their Fat Bikes, and have to confidence to spend greater amounts on custom and specialist frames and components.

Get real. 

Brian


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

keyhavenpotterer said:


> Of all the people in the world, you US guys should understand and support free markets.
> 
> There are expensive 29ers, custom 29ers and cheap copy 29ers. All being produced and all being bought at the price point each customer can afford.
> 
> ...


You can justify it any way you like. Don't make it right.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I suppose there is justification in what I wrote, but I can guarantee I won't be buying a $2,300 frame this year. 

These frames, like the Bikesdirect bikes, are a disruptive force in the marketplace, just look at that 250 page thread over in the 29er forum. 

Sorry to have brought it up and p!ssed people off, but I thought it was an interesting option. If the group doesn't like this thread, I have no problem deleting it.


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## maddslacker (Mar 13, 2009)

I'm pretty happy with my sub-30 lb Fatback alloy bike. A carbon frame only sheds about 1.5 lbs, so maybe Mr 2 kids in college should cut calories for like 3 days and there's the weight savings. 

I'm kidding jisch, so don't hate me.


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

Walmart was apparently selling knockoffs of Banksy art, with Banksy's name on it.

I guess it's OK because Banksy originals are really expensive and besides, it doesn't hurt anyone and it gets more people to appreciate art and stuff and really, who's getting harmed.

Banksy's "Destroy Capitalism" print for sale at Walmart.

And it's totally OK that GoldieBlox ripped off the beastie boys despite their ban on using their songs for any commercial product, ever because the song was really cute and it's for the kids and the original song was mean and really, who gets hurt, right?

Never Mind the Lawyers, GoldieBlox Won Big in Beastie Boys Fight

When you work on a project because you really love it (and want to get paid), pour serious money into it with the hope of getting your money back AND seeing a profit AND seeing the thing you love succeed, and then you get ripped off, let me know how you feel about it.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

keyhavenpotterer said:


> Of all the people in the world, you US guys should understand and support free markets.
> 
> There are expensive 29ers, custom 29ers and cheap copy 29ers. All being produced and all being bought at the price point each customer can afford.
> 
> ...


Bingo!


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

na, just keep the thread rolling. i have this suspicion that some people purchased fat bike recently and now begin to regret it.


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## maddslacker (Mar 13, 2009)

brankulo said:


> na, just keep the thread rolling. i have this suspicion that some people purchased fat bike recently and now begin to regret it.


Nope, I *just* bought the alloy Fatback and I LOVE it. Gonna ride it in the snow immediately after work today.

Zero regrets.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

brankulo said:


> na, just keep the thread rolling. i have this suspicion that some people purchased fat bike recently and now begin to regret it.


No buyers regret here. I don't mind people selling cheap carbon frames what I do have a problem with is companies that rip other companies designs off. I support local as much as I can and its up to each individual to make their own choices, I won't judge.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

maddslacker said:


> I'm kidding jisch, so don't hate me.


LOL, no hate here! (BTW at my lightest in 10 years right now, so I've done my part).


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

buckfiddious said:


> Walmart was apparently selling knockoffs of Banksy art, with Banksy's name on it.


Good points, something to ponder. Thanks!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

If I had a nice fat bike in the shed, this thread would not be threatening nor would I be suffering buyer's remorse. I think that's important to realize with one of these bikes (much like the FB4), you're not buying a high end product, and you'll get what you pay for in some regards. 

There are definitely advantages to owning something high end, it can be as intangible as what the marketing guys tell you or as concrete as high resale value or knowing you can call someone to get help if you have issues. I totally get that and I wish I was in a position to participate in it.


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## keyhavenpotterer (Feb 22, 2013)

Ask yourself the questions

Who paid for and trained in the use of the computer design software tools to draw and analyse the frames structure.
Who paid for and trained to use the stress analysis software and hardware machines to test the prototypes.
Who paid for the factory.
Who produced the mould tools, who had the skill, who trained the staff.

Who provided all these facilities and took risks to produce small volumes for the custom US fatbike house that marks the frames up three, four, five times.

Why do the US small volume custom houses allow these guys to make another frame mould and sell direct. The factory could not supply just the low volume high price quantities and survive. It's called dual price marketing and is used all over the world.

Ford Cars sell at high price to the retail sector and miles lower prices to the lease companies. It's standard marketing textbook stuff.

As I say! just choose your price point and enjoy your Fat bike.

Brian


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

keyhavenpotterer said:


> Ask yourself the questions
> 
> Who paid for and trained in the use of the computer design software tools to draw and analyse the frames structure.
> Who paid for and trained to use the stress analysis software and hardware machines to test the prototypes.
> ...


So, by this logic I assume you own every song, movie and TV show in your inventory? Because the people who get hurt most by pirating are, by your logic, the industry that fronts bands the money for studio time, pays the promotion and distributes the music, and the artists themselves don't really matter.

So I'm going to guess that you'd never pirate a song, movie or TV show because you'd be ripping off the system. And whether that song is performed by Nirvana or kidz bop doesn't matter at all because it's all about the pricepoint and the process of manufacture, not the creativity behind it.

You can justify it however you like. It still doesn't make it right.


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

BTW, I'm having a really crappy day, so I'm in a really fighty mood.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I, for one, am enjoying reading through the responses, as long as the ideas keep flowing and there's no personal attacks, I think its a good healthy discussion. 

I am sure the bike industry will adjust in the same way the music industry has adjusted (and for the record, I am a musician (hobbyist at best) and any music/media I have in my house I paid for).


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## keyhavenpotterer (Feb 22, 2013)

I think you may have misunderstood my point, not sure but think so.

It's actually the Chinese factory that makes all the investment, has all the technical skills to design, test and manufacture the high tec carbon frame. They make both the expensive frame for the boutique fat bike house and the medium price frame and the low cost direct frame. They make frames for all the markets so they can achieve the volume they need and the average price they need to survive.

Piracy has nothing to do with this business model. Nothing what so ever. 

Some years back I was a windsurfer. There was only one factory in the whole world that made windsurfing sails. Every brand went there, had them design and make what they wanted and sold the sail at the price they could achieve. That one factory had all the skills to achieve what was needed. 

Brian


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Lets see what people think when a US company start selling a frame designed by a US company already selling that frame, fork hubs, completes etc and market it under another name when it clearly is EXACTLY the same as said company except for finish. This happens when said companies do not pay for moulds and then it is open slather. It happens worldwide and although it may not be right, it will continue to happen.
I can buy the above mentioned frame here in Oz from a distributor if I want as well.
I say, buy whatever suits you or meets your needs, makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside and then ride it and appreciate that you are a rider, out riding


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

to keyhavenpotterer, I understood your point perfectly


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Its the same with bass strings, there are only 2 or 3 string manufacturers globally, making every price variation from generic strings through the high zoot ones. You can pay $12 for a set of bass strings or $60.


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## crashtestdummy (Jun 18, 2005)

buckfiddious said:


> BTW, I'm having a really crappy day, so I'm in a really fighty mood.


You can justify it however you like. It still doesn't make it right. Had to be said.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

^^^^ hahahaha!!!!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

keyhavenpotterer, I did misunderstand your previous post, but now it makes sense. If I understand the emails I have received, they have private molds which they won't use to produce their direct sale frames. They are creating a new set of molds, which won't be private, and they will make their bikes from these new molds.


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

crashtestdummy said:


> You can justify it however you like. It still doesn't make it right. Had to be said.


You win the internet today, sir. Also, thanks- feeling better.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

They are making new molds to produce their own frames. It's way different than stealing someone's art or other intellectual property.

Here's what Surly have to say about new fatbikes being introduced: There Sure Are a Lot of Fatbikes This Year | Blog | Surly Bikes

I think they have a really healthy attitude about competition and that's why I think they will continue to soar.

_"The other thing that I think is cool, is that each and every person out there who rides a bike (or who should be riding a bike)(which is all of you) has a type/style/brand of bike they like to ride. With more bikes to choose from, ultimately more people will have a bike they love. That's what it's really all about. Surly was never here to "own" the fatbike market. The very idea is kind of silly to me."_


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## keyhavenpotterer (Feb 22, 2013)

It's good to talk!


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

keyhavenpotterer said:


> I think you may have misunderstood my point, not sure but think so.
> 
> It's actually the Chinese factory that makes all the investment, has all the technical skills to design, test and manufacture the high tec carbon frame. They make both the expensive frame for the boutique fat bike house and the medium price frame and the low cost direct frame. They make frames for all the markets so they can achieve the volume they need and the average price they need to survive.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying. I get that the chinese factory is the one doing a whole lot of the heavy lifting on this. BUT, and this is a big but, if they are just lifting the design they developed for someone else and then selling it back to the same market for 1/4 the price, that's a pretty crappy thing to do.

I understand that they make frames for multiple price points, but undercutting your clients is something no one wants to see.

I keep going back to music, but again, this smacks of the kind of stuff that management used to do to artists back in the bad old days- "Hey, we'll help you out, no problem, just sign here" only to discover that you no longer own your songs. THat's kind of where I was rambling earlier- who's more important in the equation- the artist or the distributor? and the answer is, they both need each other.

Like I said, crappy day. I do see your point and if this is a mutual thing, if Borealis/fatback/907 don't care, than neither do I. Cheers.


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## Pancake Adventure (Aug 14, 2006)

keyhavenpotterer said:


> It's actually the Chinese factory that makes all the investment, has all the technical skills to design, test and manufacture the high tec carbon frame.


Uh, the reality is that bike companies pay for all of the tooling, testing, and design on unique products like fatbikes and fat rims.

Cheapasses buying cheap **** on the internet affects everyone, no matter how you justify it.

FYI.


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## Geek (Aug 17, 2010)

It looks like the frame pictured will not have any type of luggage mounts?

Do any of the carbon fat bikes have the ability to mount racks?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

buckfiddious said:


> BTW, I'm having a really crappy day, so I'm in a really fighty mood.


Someone needs a hug. Get over here, ya big lug.


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

buckfiddious said:


> I get what you're saying. I get that the chinese factory is the one doing a whole lot of the heavy lifting on this. BUT, and this is a big but, if they are just lifting the design they developed for someone else and then selling it back to the same market for 1/4 the price, that's a pretty crappy thing to do.
> 
> I understand that they make frames for multiple price points, but undercutting your clients is something no one wants to see.
> 
> ...


You're saying everything I wanted to say. Nice job.

My other somewhat similar pet peeve is the "need" of riders to do there shopping online, but are then quickly head into the LBS when it is time to ask for schwag for a race, sponsorship, race support, etc (or see the product up close so they know what to order). Seen it first hand many times.

It is amazing how many people will justify compromising their principles to save some money.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Pancake Adventure said:


> Uh, the reality is that bike companies pay for all of the tooling, testing, and design on unique products like fatbikes and fat rims.
> 
> Cheapasses buying cheap **** on the internet affects everyone, no matter how you justify it.
> FYI.


Actually, you don't know exactly what they do unless you have spoken with someone about the exact example.

Sometimes, the sourcing company (907, etc.) pays for the design and tooling. Usually, if this is the case, the sourcing company has full rights to the tooling and any parts that come out of it. (but not always)

Sometimes, the manufacturer (Chinese company) pays for the design and tooling. Usually, if this is the case, the manufacturer can make and sell the parts to anyone they want. (but not always)

Sometimes, they split the costs of the design and the tooling. This is more wide open for possibilities.

The point is, that many possible scenarios exist and you shouldn't assume anything unless you know who spent the time and money to design and build the tooling. Not to mention the legal documents that follow and support the previous information.

Any company outsourcing components has to deal with these issues. If they don't, then they leave themselves open to having their stuff "stolen" without a legal leg to stand on if they want to do something about it.


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## OFFcourse (Aug 11, 2011)

More buy from your local/small bike shop ranting, it clogs my arteries, I'm only here for the carporn ;-)


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## jhmeathead (Apr 15, 2013)

With carbon fat/ regular bikes being big $$$ some guys may not have the funds to ever afford something like that. Weither it be because they are taking care of their family or not much disposable income or whatever the case may be.
Here might be a chance for that dude to buy a moto , strip it and transfer the parts for a fraction of the price. And have a nice ride he can be proud of. Who am i to judge that guy or blast him because his bike doesnt have a certain name on the downtube.
Just because some people bring home bigger paychecks doesnt make them better or more "moral" than the other person. Yes i can see the argument it may not be right for companies to do this, but to bust the 
guy buying it, i dont necessarily agree with.

(for the detectives yes ive posted questions on chinese frames and yes i ride a old 04 hardrock to work everyday.. Blast away)


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

We kinda have two conversations going, one is the manufacturing and buying of cheap Chinese frames and the other is Chinese companies ripping off frame designs and producing them. The later happens a lot more than people realize and wrongly labeled as a big name bike.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Maybe we can ask them to put a Huffy sticker on the frame to make it really cool.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

zorg said:


> Maybe we can ask them to put a Huffy sticker on the frame to make it really cool.


Oh so many fond memories, my first BMX bike.


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

jhmeathead said:


> With carbon fat/ regular bikes being big $$$ some guys may not have the funds to ever afford something like that. Weither it be because they are taking care of their family or not much disposable income or whatever the case may be.
> Here might be a chance for that dude to buy a moto , strip it and transfer the parts for a fraction of the price. And have a nice ride he can be proud of. Who am i to judge that guy or blast him because his bike doesnt have a certain name on the downtube.
> Just because some people bring home bigger paychecks doesnt make them better or more "moral" than the other person. Yes i can see the argument it may not be right for companies to do this, but to bust the
> guy buying it, i dont necessarily agree with.
> ...


I don't know if the "Chinese Frames" are illegally copied and what not, but if they are, then anyone buying it is supporting the activity. It can be justified away, but it is still supporting the activity.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I don't think anyone knows the true nature of the relationship between any particular manufacturer in China and the North American sellers. I suppose we can just as easily assume there is some kind of stealing going on as we can assume that everything is working the way the two companies want them to work. I'm going to make the latter assumption. 

I'll wait and see what the pricing looks like.


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## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

Chader09 said:


> Actually, you don't know exactly what they do unless you have spoken with someone about the exact example.
> 
> Sometimes, the sourcing company (907, etc.) pays for the design and tooling. Usually, if this is the case, the sourcing company has full rights to the tooling and any parts that come out of it. (but not always)
> 
> ...


This sounds about right. However, China is famous for its lack of respect for intellectual property rights. Even if you have an ironclad agreement about who owns what, there's a fair chance that the design will end up being copied by a different manufacturer than the one you contracted with. It can happen by employee theft, bribery, or simply copying the finished product. The legal protections over there are simply not as strong as in the US and other countries.

I think discussions like these are fine. If you care about any of this stuff, vote with your wallet. It's one of the few times you have any real power.


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## jhmeathead (Apr 15, 2013)

Could have a point there too. That one guy didnt seem to mad when moto took his old design fat bike. He even stayed in the thread and helped guys with questions, fitment etc.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Yeah, China is lax about patents, IP, etc. While some companies take advantage of that and the relative difficulty for "us" to do anything about it, not all companies are that bad.

In the case of the Moto version of the Diamants, the MB's are the old MKII versions from Diamant. They didn't have a specific lock on that design, so MB was apparently able to go with those frames. Espen was surprised, but more flattered than upset. Not all designers will be so easy-going in that situation.

However, on the later versions, Diamant is holding them for themselves only. So they should have some security that their latter work is more "safe" from other sales.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Chader09 said:


> In the case of the Moto version of the Diamants, the MB's are the old MKII versions from Diamant. They didn't have a specific lock on that design, so MB was apparently able to go with those frames. Espen was surprised, but more flattered than upset. Not all designers will be so easy-going in that situation.


I'm not familiar with that, but it reminds me of something similar. Moots simply never cared about everyone and their brother copying their YBB design, even though they could've patented it and licensed it. IIRC, it was altruism -- they were proud of the design and didn't want to see it restricted to bikes most folks couldn't afford.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

SmooveP said:


> If you care about any of this stuff, vote with your wallet. It's one of the few times you have any real power.


This is about it. This exact pattern of conversation has happened elsewhere in the past (although, surprisingly, and worthy of praise, this one has not yet satisfied Godwin's law), the only differing variable being the absurd seat / chain stays that we like.

_Maybe_ these designs are on the up and up, and _maybe_ the employees applying carbon and finishing carbon are getting paid something resembling a livable wage. Can't _really_ know unless you're there or privy to the info.

With that in mind I don't feel as comfortable as buckfiddious in being argumentative about going this route. But dude I also don't take umbrage with your opinion, because you might be right.

If cheap Chinese labor were nonexistent, I think the US would adapt by automating the crap out of applying carbon plies to molds or bladders through the use of robots. But, you know, it exists, so screw that when someone wants to hit a bottom line.

Look at food processing, for example. It can be done. And if that happens, people lose their jobs (except for robotics engineers).

...Right? Damn. Catch 22.

And yet some people, specific example, prefer to get their meat from a local butcher. They do this because they care where their product began and completed, for specific attributes etc.

Gives me hope, considering how I've been busying myself this year.

I truly hope the guys who have paid for any R&D aren't getting ripped off.

At least this isn't audiophile marketing. In terms of compromised principles, it can get SO much worse...


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Personally, if those Carbondale rims I want wind up being available cheaper from China, I'll ask Borealis about it. If they're getting ripped off, I'll pay the premium for their product. If they don't care, I'll save some money, but not before asking if they want to "sponsor" my Alubooyah build (which is sure to attract attention) by getting their logo on it in exchange for a sweet deal. Nothing wrong with asking a manufacturer this sort of thing.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

bikefat said:


> Personally, if those Carbondale rims I want wind up being available cheaper from China, I'll ask Borealis about it. If they're getting ripped off, I'll pay the premium for their product. If they don't care, I'll save some money, but not before asking if they want to "sponsor" my Alubooyah build (which is sure to attract attention) by getting their logo on it in exchange for a sweet deal. Nothing wrong with asking a manufacturer this sort of thing.


So you are going to ask a bike manufacturer to sponsor you in building another brand of bike? I can see I'm not the only one partaking in some of natures finer spirits tonight.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

bikefat said:


> Personally, if those Carbondale rims I want wind up being available cheaper from China, I'll ask Borealis about it. If they're getting ripped off, I'll pay the premium for their product. If they don't care, I'll save some money, but not before asking if they want to "sponsor" my Alubooyah build (which is sure to attract attention) by getting their logo on it in exchange for a sweet deal. Nothing wrong with asking a manufacturer this sort of thing.


I'm not sure I follow - you're asking for something resembling a price match on their product if they don't care?

As you know I'm pro-bamboo but I think you vastly overestimate the advertising effect your bike will have.

I've been offered to be "paid" for my web software services by placing a link to my personal site on the client's site. I can answer on behalf of Borealis in advance with a probably 90% accuracy: *NO.*


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

bdundee said:


> So you are going to ask a bike manufacturer to sponsor you in building another brand of bike? I can see I'm not the only one partaking in some of natures finer spirits tonight.


But isn't that their market, where rims/hubs/forks are concerned? People who aren't building up one of their frames?


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Drew Diller said:


> I'm not sure I follow - you're asking for something resembling a price match on their product if they don't care?


Even if they don't care if I buy the "knockoff" I'm sure they still care about selling their branded rims to others, particularly those who aren't aware of the "knockoffs"; plus I'm also in the market for a fork, which they also sell. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I like to haggle, particularly when it has the potential to help a small business instead of just being a handout, which isn't what I'd be asking for.



Drew Diller said:


> As you know I'm pro-bamboo but I think you vastly overestimate the advertising effect your bike will have.


 Not really. I figure that even jaded fatbikers will be interested in frames (i.e. those with bamboo in them) they haven't encountered before; if this leads to one sale of rims or wheels to someone who rides my bike and likes them, they will have broken even on the deal they gave me. If I was talking anything beyond that, yeah I'd be overestimating, but all I'm talking about is a few hundred bucks for some guerrilla marketing they otherwise wouldn't get if my bike's sporting the "knockoffs".



Drew Diller said:


> I've been offered to be "paid" for my web software services by placing a link to my personal site on the client's site. I can answer on behalf of Borealis in advance with a probably 90% accuracy: *NO.*


 I've done just that for nonprofits, provided they pay me for hosting their site, and drummed up more business than the pro-bono work cost. It's that other 10% that makes it worth asking, and I don't see how it's any skin off anyone's nose, or leads to hard feelings. My point about the "knockoffs" remains, talk to the company in question, feel them out, be polite and sometimes good things can happen.

Perhaps just for being decent enough to contact them first, instead of simply buying the cheaper option without caring if it's an illegitimate knockoff.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

bikefat said:


> nonprofits


Clearly, Borealis is not one of those. Your answer still sounds like a price match.

That's fortunate that pro bono worked for you. I got burned one too many times. My skepticism remains but if you have that kind of luck, then haggle away. I'm not saying it's 100% true but the majority of people who approached me in that way were trying to screw me from the beginning. So if you are the 10% type that don't, I'll just have to take your word for it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in the "won't know until I ask" camp about some things.


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## Pancake Adventure (Aug 14, 2006)

Their QC won't be up to your stringent standards.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Thought you had me on ignore?


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## Pancake Adventure (Aug 14, 2006)

Forgot to turn it on. 

Good luck with the build.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Drew Diller said:


> Clearly, Borealis is not one of those. Your answer still sounds like a price match.


 A better analogy would be automotive performance tuning, such sponsorships/price-matching/whatever you want to call it aren't uncommon; not sure why it's an alien concpet to bike building. Another analogy would be monoskis -- buddy and I were riding a quad chairlift w/ two folks from the "singles" lane. One of them wanted to know all about monoskiing, which I'm always happy to talk about. The other one turned out to be a rep for a small monoski company, I told him I wasn't in the market for a new ski, he told his boss they needed to get me on their ski instead of Rossignol's, got a free monoski without even asking, for agreeing not to ride the Rossi. If I hadn't liked the Snowshark better I'd have given it back, I'm not for sale.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Pancake Adventure said:


> Their QC won't be up to your stringent standards.


Nothing about Borealis leads me to remotely suspect QC issues, but when I do visit them I expect they'll be just as forthcoming as BooBikes was when I visited them, about their QA/QC and development issues -- and likely just as willing to share their destructive-testing and failure-analysis data with me. Try getting that level of CS from the big players, whereas smaller companies are eager to show they have nothing to hide or need to handwave around with slick PR.

I wasn't going to address this, but the QC issue brings up another possibility with Chinese carbon-fiber goods -- What if those Yampalikes are actually Borealis rejects? If you follow. The manufacturer is stuck with finished goods they haven't been paid for, so fix 'em up (hopefully) and sell 'em. The manufacturer probably still wants Borealis' business, so this is probably part of the deal (as opposed to a sneaky backhanded thing to do), unless the start-up company wants to pay for all the defective frames. Just speculating here, but you may get what you pay for with the Chinese frames, vs. paying more for QA/QC and a better warranty from Borealis.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

bikefat said:


> But isn't that their market, where rims/hubs/forks are concerned? People who aren't building up one of their frames?


Yeah I'm sure your bike will help them unload the warehouse full of rims they are having a hard time dumping. I think Drew nailed it, "I think you vastly overestimate the advertising effect your bike will have" It could almost be construed as an insult to him he actually built a frame without sponsorship parts being offered you are just buying a frame and putting a bike together.


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

Bdundee and Drew have it right. Everyone thinks they should get a deal because they have some delusional belief that by them just riding the product will garner sales.

BTW Drew, If I mention your name on here, can I get a free carbon/bamboo monstercross frame? Drew. See I did it again. I think you owe me a frame on some cash now.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Logantri said:


> Bdundee and Drew have it right. Everyone thinks they should get a deal because they have some delusional belief that by them just riding the product will garner sales.
> 
> BTW Drew, If I mention your name on here, can I get a free carbon/bamboo monstercross frame? Drew. See I did it again. I think you owe me a frame on some cash now.


Hey I mention his name first! besides me and the Drew live at the same latitude only three hours apart and that should stand for something.


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

bdundee said:


> Hey I mention his name first! besides me and the Drew live at the same latitude only three hours apart and that should stand for something.


I live closer to him than you. Either way, Drew owes me a frame and some cash.


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## maddslacker (Mar 13, 2009)

Am I the only one confused here? Why would Borealis supply free components to a build of a competitor's frame?

Anyway, I work "in the industry" (as a writer) and getting free schwag ain't what it used to be. Lately, tightening margins have even been leading to a lot of companies moving to the 'review and return' model where in the past most items were keepers.

If you have verified published content with millions of views (documented) you *might* be able to get industry pricing, which is essentially wholesale or 'dealer cost'

Good luck.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

buckfiddious said:


> You can justify it any way you like. Don't make it right.


True words.


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

Lemme axe a question:

Selling cheap carbon on ebay- is this simply a back-door route around a contract? I was thinking about this last night as I was trying to understand the whole idea. Because the more I think about it, the less sense it makes.

Figure, if you've got a $450 carbon frame to sell, even if you double the price, you've got a market dominating product, just on cost. And that goes for all segments of the bike industry, road, cross, MTB, 29er, Fat, whatever. So why not just sell them on the open market and OWN the entire market? I mean, you're a chinese/taiwanese bike manufacturer. ALL THE PARTS are made right there in your back yard. You could Bikes Direct the whole thing online, cut out the middleman and dominate the market. How many fatties did BD sell? All of them. They sold all the fatties they made. 

But this is not what the ebay carbon guys are doing. They're selling frames one at a time on the least efficient marketplace I can think of, one that's charging them a butt-load of fees just for the privilege of using their own proprietary payment system.

We've already established that the chinese frame makers are pretty smart businessmen. So why would they do this? it makes zero sense. Ebay makes zero sense for them. It's an expensive way to sell frames. There's zero chance of promoting your sales or your product. 

The only way it makes sense is if you have a non-compete with the people you make the frames for. If you aren't allowed to sell competing frames in the same markets, ebay seems like a way around that.

Seriously, trying to wrap my head around the idea of "we make a top quality product at the best price in the world" and "we only sell it on ebay, a marketplace most known these days as the world's largest flea market..."


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Selling on Evilbay is one avenue they use to skirt import tariffs which all the legitimate companies are obligated to pay.


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## Fat Urkel (May 9, 2013)

What is the life span on "good" carbon these days? Use to be that carbon frames only lasted a guy a few years before something became unhinged or snapped.


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## maddslacker (Mar 13, 2009)

Fat Urkel said:


> ... before something became unhinged or snapped.


For example, the rider?


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Now I've heard it all. This thread is hilarious.


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

Fat Urkel said:


> What is the life span on "good" carbon these days? Use to be that carbon frames only lasted a guy a few years before something became unhinged or snapped.


I bought a used, 6 year old Specialized Tarmac frame with a decent chainsuck scar on the chainstay and I've had zero problems with it... so at least 6 year seems to be a good answer.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I don't have any answers, just speculation. 

I imagine the ebay route takes away any issues with setting up a payment system. Also consider that by selling them this way they are not operating in the US (in my case) and therefore don't have to protect themselves from litigation. I have a friend who has a low volume, custom bike business, he says it costs him $600 per frame for insurance (I might not have that figure exactly right, but its a lot of money). I would bet by selling from China through Ebay they don't have those same concerns. Maybe they use Ebay to hide behind copyright infringement, I don't know. 

I'm sure in their minds they are marketing a "top quality product", but that's not their spot in the market. Its a low budget "almost as good" (at best) product. Anyone who buys one of those frames and thinks they are getting something comparable to a brand name product is fooling themselves. Just consider the support angle alone, you get next to nothing besides an email address with these frames.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Logantri said:


> I live closer to him than you. Either way, Drew owes me a frame and some cash.


I can hook you both up with a deal, but I am going to film dip the entire frame in a seamless pattern of butts.

It'll be cheeky.

Sorry, didn't get much sleep...


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## edge_kw (Mar 3, 2009)

Borealis has inserts to mount a rear rack.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

For anyone who still has doubts about carbon bike frames, google "santa cruz test lab." 

Unless a carbon frame has some significant damage to it, it will last a very, very long time.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

buckfiddious said:


> The only way it makes sense is if you have a non-compete with the people you make the frames for. If you aren't allowed to sell competing frames in the same markets, ebay seems like a way around that.


I think you hit the nail on the head, there.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Logantri said:


> Bdundee and Drew have it right. Everyone thinks they should get a deal because they have some delusional belief that by them just riding the product will garner sales.


If I pay full price, where's my motivation to stop and chat about my rims instead of getting on with my ride? OTOH, give me a deal (never even suggested "free" as some people seem to think) and I become your biggest booster, and do more of my riding where the tourists are instead of avoiding them.

Everyone's right that I shouldn't get my hopes up, but then again I don't have my hopes up, my point was that it doesn't hurt to ask -- which doesn't seem worthy of the ridicule it's getting, do you guys pay sticker price for new vehicles, too? Worst-case scenario is I only get the best bike I can afford, but, why _not_ try to get a better bike than I can otherwise afford?


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## smithcreek (Nov 27, 2012)

bikefat said:


> OTOH, give me a deal (never even suggested "free" as some people seem to think) and I become your biggest booster, and do more of my riding where the tourists are instead of avoiding them.


The take away here is from now on when I read one of your posts claiming a product is good I'll assume you are schilling it just because you got a deal.


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## Pancake Adventure (Aug 14, 2006)

smithcreek said:


> The take away here is from now on when I read one of your posts claiming a product is good I'll assume you are schilling it just because you got a deal.


This made me laugh out loud. Well done.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

smithcreek said:


> The take away here is from now on when I read one of your posts claiming a product is good I'll assume you are schilling it just because you got a deal.


I guess it's too much to expect the benefit of the doubt, that I would disclose any such conflicts, or that a few hundred bucks would stop me from dumping on a product that doesn't live up to expectations.  People who know me, know that my ethics and integrity aren't for sale -- I wouldn't take a handout, or even a discount, in exchange for a positive review.


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## Pancake Adventure (Aug 14, 2006)

bikefat said:


> I guess it's too much to expect the benefit of the doubt,


On an internet forum, yes.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Certainly not as a noob, anyway.


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## Pancake Adventure (Aug 14, 2006)

Pretty much all the time on the internet actually.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

bikefat said:


> If I pay full price, where's my motivation to stop and chat about my rims instead of getting on with my ride? *OTOH, give me a deal (never even suggested "free" as some people seem to think) and I become your biggest booster*, and do more of my riding where the tourists are instead of avoiding them.
> 
> Everyone's right that I shouldn't get my hopes up, but then again I don't have my hopes up, my point was that it doesn't hurt to ask -- which doesn't seem worthy of the ridicule it's getting, do you guys pay sticker price for new vehicles, too? Worst-case scenario is I only get the best bike I can afford, but, why _not try to get a better bike than I can otherwise afford?_





bikefat said:


> ... People who know me, know that my ethics and integrity aren't for sale -- I wouldn't take a handout, or even a discount, in exchange for a positive review.


Do the people that know you read your posts?


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Yes, so they're unlikely to take that first quote out of context.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

buckfiddious said:


> Lemme axe a question


+1 for staying in character.

If you don't get it, your tastes in entertainment are bad, and you should feel bad.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

AZ said:


> Selling on Evilbay is one avenue they use to skirt import tariffs which all the legitimate companies are obligated to pay.


Can you expand on this? I find it hard to believe, but would explain the questions raised by Buckfiddious


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

keyhavenpotterer said:


> Of all the people in the world, you US guys should understand and support free markets.
> 
> There are expensive 29ers, custom 29ers and cheap copy 29ers. All being produced and all being bought at the price point each customer can afford.
> 
> ...


Free markets are one thing, but supporting counterfeiters is another. What these cheap bikes feed is our sense of entitlement and ignore our responsibilities to our communities. I can't afford to buy a 9:Zero:7 or Borealis fatbike; I believe in supporting my "local" economy and the innovators that invest in it. When someone comes along with no connection to my community, offering a product similar to that, based on the intellectual property, but at half the price, but none of my money remains in my community as a result of that product, I will pass. I will instead buy what I can afford, or make sacrifices on my own to get what I want, but I will not sacrifice my community to satisfy my desire or greed. This goes for bikes, or general merchandise. I buy local when I can, but not necessarily exclusively. I support innovators and those who invest in my community and "community" does not have to mean local. A merchant selling someone else's intellectual property only hurts us all and will reduce the amount of innovation available to us all.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I think you just described the free market, vote with your dollars

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

Weinerts said:


> I am just happy there will be another nice used steel or aluminum frame available to me soon as people flock to the carbon!!
> 
> I can hear a Moonie in my Future!


I have one, you want it?? ;p

Been thinking about a Carbon myself. But I seen a BearGrease and I didn't care for the layup...big ass seams right down the top tube, and the down tube....I'm scared that my fat ass might split that carbon right open.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

vack said:


> I have one, you want it?? ;p
> 
> Been thinking about a Carbon myself. But I seen a BearGrease and I didn't care for the layup...big ass seams right down the top tube, and the down tube....I'm scared that my fat ass might split that carbon right open.


Seams that bisect the front triangle down the middle from bird's eye view, or radial seams where tubes are joined into lugs?

I'm not a fan of the former (have a Trek Superfly in my garage waiting for me to finish the repair on it), but I'm fine with the latter (huge internal surface areas for bonding).


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

The ones I seen ran the length of the tube from joint to joint. I'm no engineer, it's probably just the outer layer. But I'm thinking the seam was what you described first. I wish I had taken a pic. It was on the Raw Finish Carbon Frame (The one with the White Paint in places) but it was noticeable to me, and I'm about 230 pounds and I abuse bikes....I'd love to get a Carbon Fatty, but, if that's the way they are layed up, I'm just scared of it failing.

On the Other hand I also seen the Ti MukLuk, and that was B-U-Ti-Ful


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

vack said:


> The ones I seen ran the length of the tube from joint to joint. I'm no engineer, it's probably just the outer layer. But I'm thinking the seam was what you described first. I wish I had taken a pic. It was on the Raw Finish Carbon Frame (The one with the White Paint in places) but it was noticeable to me, and I'm about 230 pounds and I abuse bikes....I'd love to get a Carbon Fatty, but, if that's the way they are layed up, I'm just scared of it failing.
> 
> On the Other hand I also seen the Ti MukLuk, and that was B-U-Ti-Ful


This other part is harder to quantify unless you're up close studying the frame - do the fibers sort of mirror-image each other exactly across the bisection?

...And you know, it doesn't really matter. You should ride what you're confident on. Let's say your Nonbranded Uber Light Frame is perfectly safe no matter what weight / level of aggression you are... if you don't subjectively _trust_ it, then you'll be thinking about it while riding, as opposed to _riding_.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

Drew Diller said:


> This other part is harder to quantify unless you're up close studying the frame - do the fibers sort of mirror-image each other exactly across the bisection?
> 
> ...And you know, it doesn't really matter. You should ride what you're confident on. Let's say your Nonbranded Uber Light Frame is perfectly safe no matter what weight / level of aggression you are... if you don't subjectively _trust_ it, then you'll be thinking about it while riding, as opposed to _riding_.


The Fibers were Parallel on both sides of the seam on the one I seen.

And I agree with ya about riding what you're confident with. I'll most likely just stick with my Big Fat Fatty Moonlander, because I do love it, but I'm like most of you, there is always something cool that comes along that you want to try.....always in search of the end bike, if you will. A Carrot on a stick adventure!


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

So, all butthurt and bickering aside,

where can I buy a chinese carbon fatbike?

I am solidly in the category of a Borealis being way out of my reach (at least until about 10 years from now)


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Maybe you meant boards ie Cobra factory.
While many brands were built at this factory, they did
Have their own molds and layups

UOTE=keyhavenpotterer;10853861]I think you may have misunderstood my point, not sure but think so.

It's actually the Chinese factory that makes all the investment, has all the technical skills to design, test and manufacture the high tec carbon frame. They make both the expensive frame for the boutique fat bike house and the medium price frame and the low cost direct frame. They make frames for all the markets so they can achieve the volume they need and the average price they need to survive.

Piracy has nothing to do with this business model. Nothing what so ever.

Some years back I was a windsurfer. There was only one factory in the whole world that made windsurfing sails. Every brand went there, had them design and make what they wanted and sold the sail at the price they could achieve. That one factory had all the skills to achieve what was needed.

Brian[/QUOTE]


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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

I wonder who is actually doing all the heavy lifting. I am not fully convinced that it isn't the chinese company going to 907 etc. with a frame and asking them if they would like their name on it.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

According to what I heard, late January into February is when they will have frames available. I will post if I get an email (I asked Peter to let me know). 

I have no idea about any contractual constructs, but I know that this company is making their own (i.e. non-private) molds for these bikes. They have been doing this for a long time with other hardtail frames, presumably without any litigation, and yes I know copyright laws are notoriously lax in China. 

From what I have read, I believe this company is operating on the up and up with regards to copyrights. Just because they are within the law does not mean it is an ethical choice, you will have to make that decision on your own.

I believe most "regular" bike companies are heavily involved in the development of the frame with geometry etc, I think only retailers like Minnesota and Bikes Direct would sell a "pre-developed" bike, but that's pure speculation on my part.


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

Raidthefridgeguy said:


> I wonder who is actually doing all the heavy lifting. I am not fully convinced that it isn't the chinese company going to 907 etc. with a frame and asking them if they would like their name on it.


And it just happened to have the same geo numbers and seatpost size of their current alloy bikes? I knew the that they were working on the frame back in Feb and even had pricing about determined.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Post 24 in this thread explains the whole mold ownership thing very well: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/lamere-cycles-carbon-fatbike-890142.html


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Jisch said:


> Post 24 in this thread explains the whole mold ownership thing very well: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/lamere-cycles-carbon-fatbike-890142.html


What it doesn't explain is why they changed their wording and removed the geo chart that mirrored that of the Borealis. Sorry just seems kinda funny they change things after people notice something fishy. Heck they even changed the frame weight by 25g as to make it look not so obvious. Then there is the chance I am totally off with all of this if so I apologize.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Oh, I meant that they explained the different kinds of mold and the restrictions on each, I didn't mean the company explanation for what they did.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

Why not buy a legit alum or steel frame for about the same price as the ripoff Chinese carbon? The bike will be just as fun and you won't have to wonder if you are a terrible person...


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## JYB (Nov 12, 2011)

ReXTless,
I just laughed out loud! I don't know anything about who's ripping off who, but it is interesting to learn more about overseas sourced carbon products.


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## hookerlips (Dec 10, 2013)

ReXTless said:


> Why not buy a legit alum or steel frame for about the same price as the ripoff Chinese carbon? The bike will be just as fun and you won't have to wonder if you are a terrible person...


What if I bought an aluminum frame and a carbon, so I could be a half good person? Obviously I don't need two bikes, but for fun, and so the companies that are making them don't starve?


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## maddslacker (Mar 13, 2009)

ReXTless said:


> Why not buy a legit alum or steel frame for about the same price as the ripoff Chinese carbon? The bike will be just as fun and you won't have to wonder if you are a terrible person...


I don't have to wonder, I *am* a terrible person .. even with my american made frame.


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## OFFcourse (Aug 11, 2011)

I'd buy NZ made carbon but our bikes are only made of wool.


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## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

OFFcourse said:


> I'd buy NZ made carbon but our bikes are only made of wool.


Nothing rides like wool.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

SmooveP said:


> Nothing rides like wool.


I only ride Alpaca. What can I say, I'm an elitist.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

Cashmere, b!tches!


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## OFFcourse (Aug 11, 2011)

Tight or loose weave?


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

OFFcourse said:


> Tight or loose weave?


Loose, with a silk lining.... are we talking bikes or underpants? I can't remember


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## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

FastBanana said:


> Loose, with a silk lining.... are we talking bikes or underpants? I can't remember


Hopefully bikes. Otherwise, it can only lead to a discussion of carbon fiber underwear.


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## Geek (Aug 17, 2010)

Is it morally wrong to buy Chinese Carbon Fiber Underwear?

....hmmm I wonder where your current underwear were made? Or what about the device you are reading this with?

:hide:



.mobile


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## DSTONGE (Jul 8, 2008)

Carbon fat bike wheels are the real breakthrough here. 907, Fatback, Salsa all make alloy frames that are slightly heavier than carbon frames. The real savings are in the rims. Look at the weight difference between the 13 Alloy Beargrease and the 14 Carbon bear grease… I don't recall the exact number, but I think it's less than 200 grams. 

Wheels are where it's at.

More carbon fat bike wheels please.


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## maddslacker (Mar 13, 2009)

DSTONGE said:


> Carbon fat bike wheels are the real breakthrough here. 907, Fatback, Salsa all make alloy frames that are slightly heavier than carbon frames. The real savings are in the rims. Look at the weight difference between the 13 Alloy Beargrease and the 14 Carbon bear grease&#8230; I don't recall the exact number, but I think it's less than 200 grams.
> 
> Wheels are where it's at.
> 
> More carbon fat bike wheels please.


Any savings in rotational mass is a WIN.


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## mtuck1 (Apr 13, 2009)

maddslacker said:


> Any savings in rotational mass is a WIN.


Agree, and if you've watched the Borealis tubeless setup video it looks like a grand slam!

With (2) rims costing the same as a carbon frame but saving approximately 2 lbs of rotating mass the choice seems obvious.


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## JYB (Nov 12, 2011)

DSTONGE, maddslacker, and mtuck1,
I couldn't agree more with you guys. While a carbon frame rides nice and is a bit lighter, the real WIN is definitely lighter wheels. I'm definitely watching the "carbon rim competition" that is just starting!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

After ruminating about this way too much, I'm thinking I'm going to put a carbon fork, rims, stem and bars on my FB4. I think that's a way to lose some weight at a reasonable cost, I need to calculate that.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

buckfiddious said:


> Lemme axe a question:
> 
> Selling cheap carbon on ebay- is this simply a back-door route around a contract? I was thinking about this last night as I was trying to understand the whole idea. Because the more I think about it, the less sense it makes.
> 
> ...


"we make a top quality product at the best price in the world" doesn't matter much if no one knows about the product. Or if people don't really trust that it is a "top quality product'.

What you're trying to wrap your head around is marketing. Companies invest a ton of money into marketing. In fact, they usually spend much much more on marketing than R&D. They do it because marketing has a high ROI.

The sellers of cheap chinese carbon are working off of a business model that doesn't invest in or spend marketing dollars. Their customers must find them! And trust them blindly. Theirs is a very different customer base than 9:zero:7 or Borealis or Salsa.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

SmooveP said:


> Hopefully bikes. Otherwise, it can only lead to a discussion of carbon fiber underwear.


Wait, your bike frame has a silk lining? Must ride smooth! Where can I get?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

In my opinion, it isn't the moral high ground to refuse to buy products from people in poor countries based upon the justification that they have a different opinion on of idea ownership. In fact, I view our patent system as doing more harm than good. Other countries aren't doing something they consider bad. Instead, they have a different moral code that views their own standards as superior.

To me, the most altruistic position would be to buy products from companies that result in the highest net good on the planet. Should we enrich a few people in a wealthy nation or help bring a larger number of people out of poverty in a poor nation? It seems morally more justifiable to enrich many rather than a few.

The situation would be different if these were massive corporations that move work around constantly to wherever destitute workers will work for nearly nothing. Yet I don't think that is the case here. Most of these "chinese carbon" companies (that actually have real names) are small organizations built with local management and labor that all work in the same building. This model is what is bringing hundreds of millions of chinese into the middle class.

I bought Light Bicycle rims because of this and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a carbon fat bike from a similar company. But just to make it clear, Light Bicycles manufactures their own design. And yet people still just generically refer to them as "chinese" and and accuse them of all kinds of things. To me, that reeks of unreasoned xenophobia. 

There is valid criticism to be made. But if it starts with non-specific criticism of "chinese", chances are that it is not well reasoned.

In other words, the moral high ground is not that clear cut.


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

TooSteep said:


> "we make a top quality product at the best price in the world" doesn't matter much if no one knows about the product. Or if people don't really trust that it is a "top quality product'.
> 
> What you're trying to wrap your head around is marketing. Companies invest a ton of money into marketing. In fact, they usually spend much much more on marketing than R&D. They do it because marketing has a high ROI.
> 
> The sellers of cheap chinese carbon are working off of a business model that doesn't invest in or spend marketing dollars. Their customers must find them! And trust them blindly. Theirs is a very different customer base than 9:zero:7 or Borealis or Salsa.


I work in advertising and marketing. I get marketing.

What I don't get, is if you have a great product at a world beating price, why you don't sell it on the open market where you can sell thousands, instead of through back channels on ebay where you can sell hundreds at best.

The chinese understand marketing as well as anyone else- HTC is a chinese company and they ain't selling the HTC one on ebay.

I'd argue that their market is the exact same as 907 or borealis or anyone elses- by only selling on ebay, you are pretty much guaranteeing that the only people who buy your product are serious enthusiasts who are confident in their ability to build a bike up from scratch (which seriously eliminates 90% of the market) and are willing to take a chance on an unknown brand (lowering the number of customers even further)

Only reason I can see to do it is to get around a contract or taxes.


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

dfiler said:


> In my opinion, it isn't the moral high ground to refuse to buy products from people in poor countries based upon the justification that they have a different opinion on of idea ownership. In fact, I view our patent system as doing more harm than good. Other countries aren't doing something they consider bad. Instead, they have a different moral code that views their own standards as superior.
> 
> To me, the most altruistic position would be to buy products from companies that result in the highest net good on the planet. Should we enrich a few people in a wealthy nation or help bring a larger number of people out of poverty in a poor nation? It seems morally more justifiable to enrich many rather than a few.
> 
> ...


The unreasoned xenophobia sucks. But so does the theft of intellectual property. YOu can argue that IP laws are actually bad for creativity in general pretty successfully, but then again, it sucks when someone rips off your design.

There's a little bitty bike shop here in town that designed a really cool hub, patented that hub design and then licensed that hub design to cane creek. It was a pretty ideal set up- little bitty bike shop didn't have the bucks to manufacture it themselves, cane creek needed a better idea and bought one. While it's great to talk about the greater good of the planet or whatever, I don't see how someone ripping off the design and not paying the creator of that design for their work is good for anyone. But it did mean that the shop got to sponsor a team, etc. Those dollars didn't go to a few wealthy people, they went to a couple middle class guys in one shop, and those dollars went from them into our local economy.


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

buckfiddious said:


> The unreasoned xenophobia sucks. But so does the theft of intellectual property. YOu can argue that IP laws are actually bad for creativity in general pretty successfully, but then again, it sucks when someone rips off your design.
> 
> There's a little bitty bike shop here in town that designed a really cool hub, patented that hub design and then licensed that hub design to cane creek. It was a pretty ideal set up- little bitty bike shop didn't have the bucks to manufacture it themselves, cane creek needed a better idea and bought one. While it's great to talk about the greater good of the planet or whatever, I don't see how someone ripping off the design and not paying the creator of that design for their work is good for anyone. But it did mean that the shop got to sponsor a team, etc. Those dollars didn't go to a few wealthy people, they went to a couple middle class guys in one shop, and those dollars went from them into our local economy.


+1

Well said.


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## HBC (Nov 4, 2013)

Everyone seems to be missing the big fat elephant in the room which is the fact that when you spend $490 on a carbon frame you get exactly that - a $490 carbon frame. 

There is no magic formula. The only way to make a cheap carbon frame is to use cheap carbon fibre and to get to the stiffness and strength you would expect from a carbon frame, much more resin needs to be used, so the weight savings and 'feel' that a good quality carbon frame will give you are lost. 

Higher grade carbon fibre require less resin and that's how they can be made lighter. Manufacturers can of course use the same moulds for different qualities of carbon fibre so the finished article with have the same appearance but the ride can be like night and day.

I tend to go with the saying that 'you get what you pay for' and let's not forget 'if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is'.


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## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

dfiler said:


> In my opinion, it isn't the moral high ground to refuse to buy products from people in poor countries based upon the justification that they have a different opinion on of idea ownership. In fact, I view our patent system as doing more harm than good. Other countries aren't doing something they consider bad. Instead, they have a different moral code that views their own standards as superior.
> 
> To me, the most altruistic position would be to buy products from companies that result in the highest net good on the planet. Should we enrich a few people in a wealthy nation or help bring a larger number of people out of poverty in a poor nation? It seems morally more justifiable to enrich many rather than a few.
> 
> ...


Good points. I believe in spreading the wealth around when possible, but I'm less inclined to send money overseas when half my friends and family are un- or underemployed.

An interesting discussion would be whether buying Chinese goods rewards/enables the human rights, IP abuse, and environmental issues, or whether we're helping them raise their standards to the point where these things will diminish. Their standard of living is rising fast. I wonder how long they can remain the cheap place to get things made.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

HBC said:


> Everyone seems to be missing the big fat elephant in the room which is the fact that when you spend $490 on a carbon frame you get exactly that - a $490 carbon frame.
> 
> There is no magic formula. The only way to make a cheap carbon frame is to use cheap carbon fibre and to get to the stiffness and strength you would expect from a carbon frame, much more resin needs to be used, so the weight savings and 'feel' that a good quality carbon frame will give you are lost.
> 
> ...


You and I see eye to eye with respect to your closing statement, about products in general.

Otherwise disagreed. If you're referring to ultra high modulus carbon, the smoothest of the smooth that requires the least epoxy to bind it... that stuff is so brittle, wouldn't it be foolish to make an entire bike frame with it? Parts of a frame need to bend.

Intermediate modulus is dirt cheap. I get mine for < $20 a pound prepreg, factory direct from Zoltek - here in the US! You really think the Chinese are getting ripped off by Toray?

You're not wrong about ride quality and the wonder of what's going on inside, sight unseen. But that has more to do with frame member shape, optimal compaction, repeatability. In other words, molds!

You're referring to a small variation of the cheapest component of carbon fabrication, the carbon itself. While a Chinese frame not be my thing, I think they understand the 80/20 principle as well as anyone, and, given their proficiency in making frames for almost everyone, can certainly make some objectively-well-made frames for direct marketing. Maybe it's not a $3,000 frame. But what if a $500 frame sans middle man is a good frame?

I'm playing devil's advocate. I wouldn't buy one of these. I don't *know* how the workers covering bladders in China are being compensated. I hope well, relative to their situation at large. If I *knew* well, I'd buy one. It is at this point I realize I'm repeating arguments already made by others in this thread.

The elephant has been and still is whether people who have invested R&D and tooling dollars are getting a return on their investment. It's not even an elephant - it is the backbone of this debate.

I think people realize what they're getting when buying one of these - and _it_, the physical object - it's not bad. Again, devil's advocate...


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I wish I know for sure, but I bet the people making the frames are making the same amount of money regardless of whose frame they are making. I think the majority of the cost differential is in marketing, insurance and profit margins. 

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Drew Diller said:


> You and I see eye to eye with respect to your closing statement, about products in general.
> 
> Otherwise disagreed. If you're referring to ultra high modulus carbon, the smoothest of the smooth that requires the least epoxy to bind it... that stuff is so brittle, wouldn't it be foolish to make an entire bike frame with it? Parts of a frame need to bend.
> 
> ...


Good post. Too many people equate $ with quality. They ignore the marketing costs and profit margin that create much of the markup on "name brand" frames.

Just because an item is cheaper, doesn't necessarily mean it is of lower quality. It may be, but to assume that it is without full knowledge of the product is a mistake.


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## HBC (Nov 4, 2013)

I'm not foolish enough to be suckered by clever marketing (as he types this post from his iPhone) but at the same time, you have to give some credit to the big brands who promise you the latest, lightest, fastest etc etc Carbon frames. 

Yes, they spend a huge amount on marketing but the R+D costs, mold costs, destruction testing costs for legal certification are also a huge part of the price tag. 

I've seen and ridden a lot of carbon bikes of varying values and you can definitely tell the difference between a low spec carbon and a high spec carbon. Maybe it's just coincidence that the low spec frames just happen to be cheaper but in my experience, they don't ride any different and weigh no less than a good alloy one. Oh and you don't spend the majority of your time riding worrying whether it's going to fall apart. 

I'm not saying that this company are producing poor frames but if they can sell you a frame for $490 that'll ride as well a a $1500-2000 frame then if be very, very surprised. 

If anyone buys one then please honestly let us know how you get on.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

If you go over to the 29er forum you'll see a thread with 250 pages of experiences with this company's bikes. I've seen a few comments on failures, but VERY few and overall the comments seem to be good. I haven't looked at that thread in a few weeks, maybe there's more dirt there now. 

There is a small LBS around here that sells CF bikes, he basically buys the cheap Chinese frames and builds them up with whatever parts customers want. He has zero inventory, he just places orders when people order from him. He sells more than just the CF hardtails, but that is a significant part of his business - "his" bikes are very reasonable as he's buying the parts as a bike shop and doesn't have much overhead. I wonder how he deals with the warranty thing.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

subscribed. We've all heard the crap about not supporting the Chinese cahbon stuff, give me a break, the argument is old and tired. I wanted cahbon rims, so my LBS is smart enough to already have a supplier that they buy from, an sell the rims for 200 bucks a pop so guess what I did? I supported my local bike shop instead of ordering from light-bicycle. local shops have the opportunity to get on the cheap cahbon train, or lose out. The big companies will be just fine...


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## Clydesdale Clint (Sep 6, 2013)

HBC said:


> Yes, they spend a huge amount on marketing but the R+D costs, mold costs, destruction testing costs for legal certification are also a huge part of the price tag.


Destruction testing is done to non-proprietary standards and there is very minimal marginal cost associated with doing the testing. There is upfront cost associated with test equipment, but the equipment that is used is all very basic, honestly. We are not testing semiconductor devices here, just simple mechanical trusses. In the case of factories who build frames, they are doing the testing in house for the most part.

Mold costs are also not as expensive as you might think, particularly when they're being done on the margin for someone who is in this composites business. Same with R&D. We are romanticizing the R&D process-- these are simple composite structures with low requirements compared to other industries.

The reality is that the materials cost for carbon is much, much lower than other frame materials and the mold manufacturing costs are quite reasonable as well. The amount of R&D money and expertise for a bicycle frame are greatly exaggerated by the marketing departments of major brands.

The difference between a $5000 carbon frame and a $250 one is largely the marketing and perceived value by the customer.



HBC said:


> I've seen and ridden a lot of carbon bikes of varying values and you can definitely tell the difference between a low spec carbon and a high spec carbon. Maybe it's just coincidence that the low spec frames just happen to be cheaper but in my experience, they don't ride any different and weigh no less than a good alloy one. Oh and you don't spend the majority of your time riding worrying whether it's going to fall apart.


Please show me a good double-blind test where you (or anyone else) has correctly identified the "better" frame as the more expensive one. These differences are in your head, I'd imagine.



HBC said:


> I'm not saying that this company are producing poor frames but if they can sell you a frame for $490 that'll ride as well a a $1500-2000 frame then if be very, very surprised.
> 
> If anyone buys one then please honestly let us know how you get on.


There's heaps of people with great experiences with frames made by these companies in road and mtb styles. Thinking that a producing a fatbike would be any different is a little foolish.

I am always intrigued when people talk about manufacturers in Asia "ripping off" the design of bikes. There is almost no protected intellectual property associated with these bikes. Almost every bicycle made today is a "copy" of the millions that came before it, whether that's in geometry, manner of construction, etc. There is quite simply very little that's novel in this industry, which is why the biggest price differentiator is in marketing and brand.


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## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

Clydesdale Clint said:


> Mold costs are also not as expensive as you might think, particularly when they're being done on the margin for someone who is in this composites business. Same with R&D. We are romanticizing the R&D process-- these are simple composite structures with low requirements compared to other industries.
> 
> The difference between a $5000 carbon frame and a $250 one is largely the marketing and perceived value by the customer.


It's much more than marketing. Don't forget the cost of paint, decals, shipping, liability insurance, warranty, and markups by bike company, distributor, and retailer. In addition to R&D and marketing, bike companies also maintain a staff of sales, customer service and other overhead personnel, along with rent, utilities and every other cost of supporting a business with a physical presence. Oh, and if you're Specialized, you have a team of lawyers to pay for .


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

SmooveP said:


> It's much more than marketing. Don't forget the cost of paint, decals, shipping, liability insurance, warranty, and markups by bike company, distributor, and retailer. In addition to R&D and marketing, bike companies also maintain a staff of sales, customer service and other overhead personnel, along with rent, utilities and every other cost of supporting a business with a physical presence. Oh, and if you're Specialized, you have a team of lawyers to pay for .


To be fair, some of those "italian" frames must be painted with freaking diamond dust.


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## Clydesdale Clint (Sep 6, 2013)

SmooveP said:


> It's much more than marketing. Don't forget the cost of paint, decals, shipping, liability insurance, warranty, and markups by bike company, distributor, and retailer. In addition to R&D and marketing, bike companies also maintain a staff of sales, customer service and other overhead personnel, along with rent, utilities and every other cost of supporting a business with a physical presence. Oh, and if you're Specialized, you have a team of lawyers to pay for .


Completely agree. There's a whole chain here of things that are adding markup AND some value to the consumer. But the difference between the $500 direct from manufacturer frame and the $5000 frame are largely things that do not influence the performance of the frame. (paint, decals, shipping, liability insurance, warranty, and markups by bike company, distributor, and retailer)

If I don't want to pay for a sales force, because I know what I want as a consumer (geo, sizing), I don't care about someone's logo, don't want to pay markups to a distributor, retailer, and bike brand, then the $500 direct bike makes sense.

I ran a manufacturing and food manufacturing plant where we sold the same products under a brand's label, under our own label, and a generic version. It was all the same product.... exactomundo. The private labeled brand sold for more than the house label and for far more than the generic label. The product and its quality were the same, but the service/support/cache were different, and served different groups of consumers.

Smart buyers can get a good deal on a great product if they know where these situations exist. It's the exact same situation here.

The BIG deal with a bike frame is that a catastrophic failure can impact your health. So, inspection and testing and warranty should have a lot of value to the consumer. There are enough horror stories about big name manufacturers not providing much value here, however, that these services are somewhat devalued.

I really like the story of the guy at Nud | manufacturing of open mold carbon fiber bicycle frames .

You get an open mold and he tells you you're paying for stateside QC, a good mfg relationship, a warranty, and some minor paintwork. The $450 eBay or direct bike gets $400 worth of markup for that stuff. Specialized will sell you the same product, but adds $1600 of markup throughout the chain because they have a brand presence and additional channel partners to support. You get a sales guy at a LBS and dealer reps and less risk that they're out of business next month, etc etc.

Which price point you want to be at ($400, $850, $2050) depends on to what degree you value all that stuff. Add in the fact that some people on these forums add perceived value to a "naked" or un-branded bike and the factory-direct bikes have an even larger appeal. Doesn't make any of these bikes or transactions "bad".

People who buy the local grocery store's ice cream instead of Ben and Jerry's aren't behaving badly. Same with consumers of generic beer...


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## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

Clydesdale Clint said:


> People who buy the local grocery store's ice cream instead of Ben and Jerry's aren't behaving badly. Same with consumers of generic beer...


I agree with everything you said except this part. There's no substitute for good ice cream or beer.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

I haven't read through this long thread yet so sorry if someone has already said this, but it is my understanding that the feel of a cheap Chinese carbon frame is dead compared with some expensive carbon frames that may still be manufactured in China or Taiwan or Japan to tighter specifications. It takes time and skill and technology to lay up a frame properly. So you might get lighter weight but not as good a ride. There may be exceptions of course.

And some seem completely happy with their Chinese carbon 29ers.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

So......

Are we ordering some Chinese Carbon Fat frames or what?


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

SmooveP said:


> I agree with everything you said except this part. There's no substitute for good ice cream or beer.


Bull. Publix brand ice cream is great. Beer, however, youre right

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 4


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

modifier said:


> I haven't read through this long thread yet so sorry if someone has already said this, but it is my understanding that the feel of a cheap Chinese carbon frame is dead compared with some expensive carbon frames that may still be manufactured in China or Taiwan or Japan to tighter specifications. It takes time and skill and technology to lay up a frame properly. So you might get lighter weight but not as good a ride. There may be exceptions of course.
> 
> And some seem completely happy with their Chinese carbon 29ers.


It's just perceived that way just like how Ben & Jerry's ice cream would taste better knowing that it's Ben & Jerry's.


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

alshead said:


> So......
> 
> Are we ordering some Chinese Carbon Fat frames or what?


Have to wait until Jan/Feb as far as I have heard.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Clint: rep sent. Definitely don't agree with beer comment, but you're right on the money with the rest!


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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

Yep, we are ordering some carbon frames. They told me Feb. as well. Now the next thing we need is a simple parts group to go with it.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

Just a question.....how many of you drive a Honda, Kia, Hyundai, Toyota or a Suzuki? Not saying anything is right or wrong about it, but just trying to understand the logic of some of the responses. Please don't take it the wrong way. By the Way I have a Jeep, a Ford, and a Subaru. And I'm pretty ok with my logic on these companies.

As for Bikes I have the following:
Lynskey - Made in USA
Surly Moonlander- Made in Taiwan
Cannondale SuperSix- Made in China

But this is what I understand about some of these companies.

Some might be the same factory that manufacturers say Specialized stuff, or Cannondale, or whatever, however like say a steel fab plant here in the US. Specialized and Cannondale are basically customers of their Carbon Fab plant. So in essence they have their own RD people who may work on the US company stuff, but also develop their own stuff, and manufacture it when the orders are slow or fulfilled for their customers. They then kill the overhead by eliminating the middle man, and basically sell direct. Kinda like going to an Amish farm and buying their products be it a shed, or some shoe fly pie.

So, would I substitute a China Frame for a Pivot, Trek, Intense, or other frame? Probably not, solely due the the CS that you get from these companies. You break a China Bike, then you're shipping it across the ocean, you break on of the normal US bought bikes, you take it to the LBS and normally you'll get to speak to someone about the issue.

Adversly IMO, the price of the China Direct frame is a fraction of the cost of say a Trek Carbon Frame, so I guess if you're willing to possibly eat the cost or have limited CS for your China Frame, then so be it.

For example, my first 29er was a Sette....Awesome Awesome Awesome bike, but ya know I wasn't quite sure I was going to like a 29er, and I wasn't willing to fork out twice the money for half the spec on a big name bike, that I may not even like. So I used Sette to light my desire to ride big wheels, and now as stated above I ride a Lynskey.

I think that explains my view on it, basically these companies only open the door to the normal companies or smaller companies. We all want that super top end bike, but we need to build up to it.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Raidthefridgeguy said:


> Yep, we are ordering some carbon frames. They told me Feb. as well. Now the next thing we need is a simple parts group to go with it.


Are there prices and specs available?


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## Clydesdale Clint (Sep 6, 2013)

vack said:


> So, would I substitute a China Frame for a Pivot, Trek, Intense, or other frame? Probably not, solely due the the CS that you get from these companies. You break a China Bike, then you're shipping it across the ocean, you break on of the normal US bought bikes, you take it to the LBS and normally you'll get to speak to someone about the issue.
> 
> Adversly IMO, the price of the China Direct frame is a fraction of the cost of say a Trek Carbon Frame, so I guess if you're willing to possibly eat the cost or have limited CS for your China Frame, then so be it.


Here's the solution to the "warranty quandry"...

Buy two of them at once. Then you have an instant replacement should something go wrong and you don't have to worry about shipping/dealing with the plant, etc. The cost of the second frame will be well below what you're paying all the middlemen if you order the premium-branded frame.

The irony in a lot of bicycle discussions is that the only riders who truly need the bleeding edge of technology/weight savings/expensive features to be competitive never buy a bike themselves. For the rest of us mere mortals, the frame's major purpose is to keep all the parts on a bike in good spatial alignment. It's a rigid truss with a certain transfer function to incoming vibration and loads. Basic, basic basic engineered structure. The joke's on us that we pay so much money for such a simple item, most of the time.


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## Nelson34 (Apr 21, 2009)

I took a chance on a set of Light Bicycle rims for my Pivot-the customer service was great, shipping was fast and the product was good. I was a little worried at first, but if do business with them again. Im in for a frame.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Subscribed Just because my birthday is in February


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

On a serious note would carbon become substantially more brittle in the sub zero temperatures these bikes are primarily designed to be used in (mud and sand excepted) 

I have had some seriously large rocks (circa house brick sized 3-5lb) bounce off my carbon On-One 456 in the summer and the frame just flexed and shrugged them off .

Would this be the case with a frozen carbon frame ?


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## Stuey (Aug 6, 2009)

Fat Biker - as aeroplanes, skis and ice hockey sticks can all use CF - I doubt a few degrees C will cause any harm.

On the upside my DIY CF frame lets me lick it's top tube without my tongue sticking ;-)


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Fat Biker - I talked with Aaron of Blonde Fabrications about this concern. The frames he made were constructed with an epoxy he specifically searched for that had tested within desired parameters to (I believe) -60 F.

So: a proper epoxy exists.

I'd hope that any given carbon manufacturer is employing carbon prepreg with a proper epoxy. Whether they _actually_ are - something worth asking.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Clydesdale Clint said:


> Here's the solution to the "warranty quandry"...
> 
> Buy two of them at once...


Solution!

In many ways modern bike production is very like it was in the UK from the 1900s to 1950s. There were a few big actual manufacturers who made almost all their own components (eg Raleigh compared to Giant now) and everyone else bought in all the parts and basically assembled their bikes and stuck their brand on it. Even handbuilt frames were built from the same components as the next brand, ie lugs bought in, tubes bought in.

The general public bought from the big manufacturers. The sporting public usually bought from the individual brands where they could specify exactly what they wanted, but really their bikes were different in only very small details from those of another small brand. This is why there was such an obsession with hand carved lugs, or curly stays.

Men like Jack Lauterwasser could build an all steel bike with common off the shelf parts that weighed 17 1/2lbs in 1930 - it was his removal of excess metal that made the difference. The difference these days is that small brands are mainly just assemblers of completely bought in bike parts with no actual engineering input. PR seems to be the main input now.

It seems to me that what the Chinese C/F manufacturers bring to the table is the ability to engineer and manufacture the frames and what is contributed by the brand are really small details of design much like the 1900s to 1950s, ie most of the intellectual property of the frames is Chinese, and surely if there is any IP belonging to the importer it should be protected by being registered?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Stuey said:


> Fat Biker - as aeroplanes, skis and ice hockey sticks can all use CF - I doubt a few degrees C will cause any harm.


D'oH ! Never thought of that side of things :blush::arf:



Stuey said:


> On the upside my DIY CF frame lets me lick it's top tube without my tongue sticking ;-)


Don't keep us in suspense Stuey what does it taste of ? Please tell us it's licorice ?????? 



Drew Diller said:


> Fat Biker - I talked with Aaron of Blonde Fabrications about this concern. The frames he made were constructed with an epoxy he specifically searched for that had tested within desired parameters to (I believe) -60 F.
> 
> So: a proper epoxy exists.
> 
> I'd hope that any given carbon manufacturer is employing carbon prepreg with a proper epoxy. Whether they _actually_ are - something worth asking.


Thanks Drew now I don't feel _quite_ soooo dumb LOL


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Sorry, I don't feel bad one bit buying a chinese carbon frame or bike. I have multiple buddies running light-bicycle rims, an nancy over there has been nothing but responsive to EVERY question or request. Also i know a few guys running the cheap chinese 29er hardtails as their main bike and have put well over a 1000 miles of hard rocky rooty singletrack. Then I look at a brand like "niner" an know someone that has broken 3 frames! 
I personally own, an Ibis ripley, an intense carbine, and just sold a mojo HD, and I also had a felt nine carbon hardtail earlier this year. So I've been on a carbon bike for 3+ years and have paid premium for the frames but a fat bike for me will never be anything more than a quiver bike that gets used half a dozen times when conditions allow in the winter so therefore the chinese carbon really appeals to me. I wouldn't buy a 6" suspension chinese carbon knockoff an have confidence to hit freeride lines, but a fatbike in snow? Please....


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

manchvegas said:


> Sorry, I don't feel bad one bit buying a chinese carbon frame or bike. I have multiple buddies running light-bicycle rims, an nancy over there has been nothing but responsive to EVERY question or request. Also i know a few guys running the cheap chinese 29er hardtails as their main bike and have put well over a 1000 miles of hard rocky rooty singletrack. Then I look at a brand like "niner" an know someone that has broken 3 frames!
> I personally own, an Ibis ripley, an intense carbine, and just sold a mojo HD, and I also had a felt nine carbon hardtail earlier this year. So I've been on a carbon bike for 3+ years and have paid premium for the frames but a fat bike for me will never be anything more than a quiver bike that gets used half a dozen times when conditions allow in the winter so therefore the chinese carbon really appeals to me. I wouldn't buy a 6" suspension chinese carbon knockoff an have confidence to hit freeride lines, but a fatbike in snow? Please....


+1&#8230;.same boat here


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## OFFcourse (Aug 11, 2011)

manchvegas said:


> A fat bike for me will never be anything more than a quiver bike that gets used half a dozen times when conditions allow in the winter


I call BS!


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Surfdog93 said:


> +1&#8230;.same boat here


+2 Bust out the fatty when there's not enough snow for pow but too much to ride dirt...


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

yeah, maybe I'll ride it more than I think.. but with the bikes I already have, I highly doubt it seeing the light of day other than in the snow...


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

+3
totaly agree


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

also, emailed peter from xmiplay and he did confirm again they are working on a fatty frame.. 

Thanks for your inquiry!



Yes, we are doing fatbike frame mould now, I think the sample will be available at the end of Jan 2014 or Feb 2014



Best Regards,

Peter

I've also emailed him back if he has any info on geo, axle spacing an possible ball park pricing.. I also reached out to Nancy at Light-bicycle an she didn't seem to know. And just a side note as well.. as far as everyone saying you get what you pay for, customer service etc... I have to say these Chinese carbon people answer my emails faster than any US company I've bought a bike from, except for maybe ibis and intense. So the argument that you get no customer service is bull..


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i asked him same about 2 weeks ago. he would not give any details. but i agree, only bike company that answers your emails quicker is ibis. i also asked light bicycle and nextie on fat bike frame development, both responded that they will evaluate their plans for future products after new year.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

Seen a Carbon BG yesterday. As stated before, here is that seam that I had questions about. The same seam is on the downtube as well. Those of you more carbon savy than me should chime in.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

vack it is possible that is a co-molded seam, and the front triangle can be thought of as two halves joined down the middle along the bike's length from a bird's eye view.

Keep in mind that while I don't _like_ the idea, I'm not an expert, and I have seen only one failure involving a frame that was constructed the same, a Trek Superfly. And it didn't break, the owner saw some slight delamination and stopped riding it, a repairable condition.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

Drew, I have no idea, but that makes sense.
I have one Carbon Bike, a Cannondale SuperSix, and I was just out in the garage trying to find a seam....I could not. I'm not sure if that's because these BG's are raw and my Supersix is painted, I don't know. 

But I too seen a Superfly fail on the top tube, not mine but a friend, the tube near the seat tube turned to mush and it failed at that seam.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Lamere fat frame and fork on sale at $1400 for the next week: Lamere Cycles Introduces Factory Direct Carbon Fatbike Frame and Fork


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## juxtaposition (Aug 7, 2004)

pinkrobe said:


> Lamere fat frame and fork on sale at $1400 for the next week: Lamere Cycles Introduces Factory Direct Carbon Fatbike Frame and Fork


So buying from the middleman is considered factory direct now? I guess that makes Fatback, 907 and Borealis factory direct too.


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## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

If the Chinese frames are exactly the same as those imported by domestic companies, what then is a "knockoff" other than TM infringement regarding decals? I'm assuming the bike pictured came out of the same mold as the "legit" frames:

Mike Sinyard?s Open Letter to the Industry

Obviously, to me at least, there's some difference in process/materials/QA/QC depending on whom one sources a frame from. Also, to me, customer service isn't measured by how fast someone in sales responds to a purchase inquiry.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

juxtaposition said:


> So buying from the middleman is considered factory direct now? I guess that makes Fatback, 907 and Borealis factory direct too.


I am assuming these ship straight from China and Lamere never touches them. That's what "factory direct" means to me.

If they ship to Lamere and Lamere then ships them, then they are no different than Bikes Direct, etc. type of companies where they eliminate the middle man or bicycle dealer.


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## maddslacker (Mar 13, 2009)

juxtaposition said:


> So buying from the middleman is considered factory direct now? I guess that makes Fatback, 907 and Borealis factory direct too.


Fatback frames are made in the US .. not sure that fits the point you're trying to make.


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## juxtaposition (Aug 7, 2004)

GSJ1973 said:


> I am assuming these ship straight from China and Lamere never touches them. That's what "factory direct" means to me.
> 
> If they ship to Lamere and Lamere then ships them, then they are no different than Bikes Direct, etc. type of companies where they eliminate the middle man or bicycle dealer.


Factory direct typically means you (the consumer) are buying directly from the factory or manufacturer. e.g. carbon rims from light-bicycles.com.

Lamere is buying from the manufacturer, adding on his profit and reselling to the consumer. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not factory direct and the $1800 $1400 price tag reflects that.


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

bdundee said:


> Oh so many fond memories, my first BMX bike.


Mine too! I had the red white and blur pro thunder 3.


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## Gee2 (Aug 8, 2004)

On the subject of carbon rims... I've heard light bicycle have some coming out at the end of Jan...


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

keyhavenpotterer said:


> Of all the people in the world, you US guys should understand and support free markets.
> 
> There are expensive 29ers, custom 29ers and cheap copy 29ers. All being produced and all being bought at the price point each customer can afford.
> 
> ...


And with more Fat bikes being sold, more & more components will follow (like suspension forks!)


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

Frame and fork
high performace bike carbon Snow frame bike(26')Max 4.7'tyre-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

wheelsets: 
Snow bike wheel (26') 2014 new!!!high performace bike carbon Snow frame bike(26')Max 4.7'tyre -in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com


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## easterntide (Sep 1, 2012)

Trond said:


> Frame and fork
> high performace bike carbon Snow frame bike(26')Max 4.7'tyre-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com
> 
> wheelsets:
> Snow bike wheel (26') 2014 new!!!high performace bike carbon Snow frame bike(26')Max 4.7'tyre -in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com


NOW this game gets interesting. thanks for posting that.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Trond said:


> Frame and fork
> high performace bike carbon Snow frame bike(26')Max 4.7'tyre-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com
> 
> wheelsets:
> Snow bike wheel (26') 2014 new!!!high performace bike carbon Snow frame bike(26')Max 4.7'tyre -in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com


According to the description, these are black anodized alloy wheels.

Edit: Looks to me like the same frame and fork Lamere Cycles is trying to sell for $1800.


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## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

Looking forward to early adopter doing some testing. If it will fit 80mm rims with Lou in back I'll probably get a frame.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## GalenCopes (Dec 5, 2013)

Same frame/wheels are listed on Alibaba. Snow Bike Wheel (26') Carbon Snow Bike Frame New 2014 & Snow Bike(26')max 4 .7'tyre - Buy Snow Bike Wheel (26'),Snow Bike Frame,Snow Bike Wheel (26') Product on Alibaba.com

Be interesting if the pricing is the exact same.

Galen


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

Very interesting...


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Finally...but, 

they ship out in 60 days... so I don't think that are already available. 

Chris.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

yeah, would wait until end of february. there should be more chinese fatbike frame options by then. even wheels.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

This is awesome. I will probably build one up. 

As an aside, I really can't believe that people would pay $2,200 or so for a Borealis. That's just ridiculous. At least the Fatback carbon and Salsa Beargrease look cool. They look different, chiseled, well thought out and have some nice graphics etc. on them to separate them. Borealis looks like a sign shop cooked up some decals with some free fonts and slapped them on a carbon frame. 

These are what I knew would trickle in at a price that is spot on. Might build up a 1x10 or 11 to compliment my singlespeed Fatback.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Read the entire thread and kept hoping for some pics and links. Finally, after all the BS we have pay dirt. Can't wait to place my order. 

The one piece missing from the argument is that anyone can get on a plane, go to China, and start a CF manufacturing business. Go for it! But wait, why hasn't Trek or Cannondale or Spesh done so? Or have they? Is Giant "XM I Play"? Is Bontrager "Light Bicycle"...

Economies of scale?


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

Some more info they just sent me. They look to have dirt cheap 65mm and 80mm complete carbon rims and also extremely cheap alloy 100mm complete rims. Oh my. 


Remark: We have offset rear triangle(OLD 190mm=90mm+100mm) to avoid the chain touch tyre.That means if you build the wheelset,you have to adjust the rear wheel left +5mm to make the wheel in center of frame. 




1.)front fork 15mm thru axle QR, model QR325 15*142mm. 
2.)rear normal QR M10,model: AF711 M5*200mm. 
3.)rear 12mm thru axle QR 
4.)Rear 12mm dropout ,model fm-m010-end


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

Here is a link to the bike.

2014 new frame Snow bike(26')Max 4.7'tyre FM010, View carbon fat frame 2014, SYNERGY Product Details from Xiamen Synergy Sports Trading Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


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## juxtaposition (Aug 7, 2004)

Tincup69 said:


> Remark: We have offset rear triangle(OLD 190mm=90mm+100mm) to avoid the chain touch tyre.That means if you build the wheelset,you have to adjust the rear wheel left +5mm to make the wheel in center of frame.


5mm offset on a 190mm frame??? As excited as I am about cheaper carbon, that just seems like a major fail.


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## hookerlips (Dec 10, 2013)

If I a reading this correctly, frame and rims will be about 2kg.? Does that include the fork? What are we looking at for total bike weight. 

I really don't need another bike with my mukluk2 serving me quite well, but for a fun project this is starting to be interesting.


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## DITCHMAN (Dec 10, 2013)

appleSSeed said:


> This is awesome. I will probably build one up.
> 
> As an aside, I really can't believe that people would pay $2,200 or so for a Borealis. That's just ridiculous. At least the Fatback carbon and Salsa Beargrease look cool. They look different, chiseled, well thought out and have some nice graphics etc. on them to separate them. Borealis looks like a sign shop cooked up some decals with some free fonts and slapped them on a carbon frame.
> 
> These are what I knew would trickle in at a price that is spot on. Might build up a 1x10 or 11 to compliment my singlespeed Fatback.


I don't think it's the graphics that make my Yampa handle better than my Fatback did, or maybe it is? It also fit's me better hmmmm, Why go hatin on other peoples rides?

P.S. I had a 190 aluminum Fatback with carbon fork on order but with my local club discount and with no shipping fees my Yampa came to about $500 more than the Fatback. Don't get me wrong I am still a Fatback fanboy though but this was just a no brainier, oh and did I mention it was actually available.


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

juxtaposition said:


> 5mm offset on a 190mm frame??? As excited as I am about cheaper carbon, that just seems like a major fail.


I don't know anything about frame geometry but is 5mm a lot for offset? Are any other 190mm frames offset of are they all symmetrical? I posted the numbers hoping someone could decipher them. I think my Muk is symmetrical but don't know how much that matters to me.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Everyone has their own opinion. I think the borealis is the best looking fatbike out there&#8230;. I also think the fatbacks are hideous.



appleSSeed said:


> This is awesome. I will probably build one up.
> 
> As an aside, I really can't believe that people would pay $2,200 or so for a Borealis. That's just ridiculous. At least the Fatback carbon and Salsa Beargrease look cool. They look different, chiseled, well thought out and have some nice graphics etc. on them to separate them. Borealis looks like a sign shop cooked up some decals with some free fonts and slapped them on a carbon frame.
> 
> These are what I knew would trickle in at a price that is spot on. Might build up a 1x10 or 11 to compliment my singlespeed Fatback.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Tincup69 said:


> I don't know anything about frame geometry but is 5mm a lot for offset? Are any other 190mm frames offset of are they all symmetrical? I posted the numbers hoping someone could decipher them. I think my Muk is symmetrical but don't know how much that matters to me.


pretty sure all 190s currently out are symmetrical. My 907 is. Looking to build a bike for my wife and the offset is definitely a deal breaker for me.


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## Montster (Feb 17, 2005)

Links above are showing no longer available or product page that no longer exists.

Did they all sell, or get pulled for some other reason?

Following thread with much interests. Love a bargain if it has value. Love supporting local manufacturing but honestly in bike frames and components the industry is in Asia already. Supporting big bike companies who design, import and market innovation is something I also like to do when innovation is real. IMO I have gotten tired of component line changes and complication with so little value except for hype, price increase and minimal improvement. I welcome some resetting of the value chain so engineers and marketing muscle can bring more value to products we buy. Having been riding bikes since cassettes were 5 cogs and campy was king I feel today's price to value ratio is too high. 

So fat bike evolution the next few years will be interesting to watch.


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## juxtaposition (Aug 7, 2004)

Tincup69 said:


> I don't know anything about frame geometry but is 5mm a lot for offset? Are any other 190mm frames offset of are they all symmetrical? I posted the numbers hoping someone could decipher them. I think my Muk is symmetrical but don't know how much that matters to me.


5mm isn't a lot, but a 190 frame shouldn't need any. It makes me think the frame was poorly designed and the offset was a late in the process fix.

$800 is still a lot of money for a lemon.


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

As someone mentioned earlier the bike is off the website now. Strange.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Ooops. Mistake. Move along.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

iPlay Carbon 26er fat bike frames will be available in Feb.

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

PeterQ520 - Do you have any info on the fatbike frame please ?

Is the rear symetrical and what is the rear axle spacing please ?
Will it be available in 100mm BSA english BB also ?

Thanks

Fat Biker


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## Rightcoaster (Dec 25, 2006)

juxtaposition said:


> 5mm isn't a lot, but a 190 frame shouldn't need any. It makes me think the frame was poorly designed and the offset was a late in the process fix.
> 
> $800 is still a lot of money for a lemon.


I Agree with this. And on another point, I love the look of the Yampa, Just sayin


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

PeterQ520 said:


> iPlay Carbon 26er fat bike frames will be available in Feb. Here are weights of our carbon fat bike rims.
> 
> Weight: 550g for FR-026-65 (65mm width)
> 620g for FR-026-80 (80mm width)
> ...


Do you have images of the carbon rims?


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## AMjunky (Apr 29, 2013)

juxtaposition said:


> $800 is still a lot of money for a lemon.


Agreed, $800 for a Chinese direct carbon frame is way too much. I don't think they should be more than their carbon 29er frame. Light bicycle is selling their carbon frames for $449 the fat bike frame should be similarly priced. Ideally $600 for a frameset with fork, or $1000 rolling chassis (carbon frameset and carbon wheelset) shipped.

I am very interested in a Chinese Carbon fat bike. Yet it has to be priced right, it has to be a very good deal. If they jack up their prices and jump on the hype train like the rest of the industry I doubt the sales will be there. Chinese manufacturers that sell direct to consumers need to offer a no-brainer smoking good deal if I am going to take the risk of buying from them.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

AMjunky said:


> Agreed, $800 for a Chinese direct carbon frame is way too much. I don't think they should be more than their carbon 29er frame. Light bicycle is selling their carbon frames for $449 the fat bike frame should be similarly priced. Ideally $600 for a frameset with fork, or $1000 rolling chassis (carbon frameset and carbon wheelset) shipped.
> .


The newest, lightest hard tail is going for more than $449. 256 is the frame number.

$800 out the door for frame and fork is worth it.


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## AMjunky (Apr 29, 2013)

Adroit Rider said:


> The newest, lightest hard tail is going for more than $449. 256 is the frame number.
> 
> $800 out the door for frame and fork is worth it.


Light bicycle is a Chinese Carbon manufacturer and seller. Arguably one of the most reliable and has lots of good reviews. Check it out&#8230;

carbon 29er frame carbon mtb frame Light-Bicycle

$449 is the price for the frame.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

AMjunky said:


> Agreed, $800 for a Chinese direct carbon frame is way too much. I don't think they should be more than their carbon 29er frame. Light bicycle is selling their carbon frames for $449 the fat bike frame should be similarly priced. Ideally $600 for a frameset with fork, or $1000 rolling chassis (carbon frameset and carbon wheelset) shipped.
> 
> I am very interested in a Chinese Carbon fat bike. Yet it has to be priced right, it has to be a very good deal. If they jack up their prices and jump on the hype train like the rest of the industry I doubt the sales will be there. Chinese manufacturers that sell direct to consumers need to offer a no-brainer smoking good deal if I am going to take the risk of buying from them.


^ +1


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

AMjunky said:


> Light bicycle is a Chinese Carbon manufacturer and seller. Arguably one of the most reliable and has lots of good reviews. Check it out&#8230;
> 
> carbon 29er frame carbon mtb frame Light-Bicycle
> 
> $449 is the price for the frame.


If you read the Threads LB has admiitted themselves that they are not a good supplier of bike frames. Their rep is solely based on rims.

Here is the newest China HT, sub 900g:
Chinese Carbon 29er - Page 250


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

deleted


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

They look nice.

I wonder who will be first to drill them


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

PeterQ520 said:


> Yes, see the attached pictures and geometries.


Thanks, looks great!


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

nice, like the little channel on both sides. nextie rims dont seem to have it. now i wish these were 90mm, but cant have everything i guess. what about the frame Peter? can we have a peek?


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## OFFcourse (Aug 11, 2011)

Yay 65mm FTW!


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Velobike said:


> They look nice.
> 
> I wonder who will be first to drill them


Oh man.

1) Don't!
2) If you insist, use a diamond hole saw.
3) See (1)


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Drew Diller said:


> Oh man.
> 
> 1) Don't!
> 2) If you insist, use a diamond hole saw.
> 3) See (1)


No danger of me doing it. I still haven't drilled any of my rims - I figure the amount of mud I would pick up on a ride would exceed the weight savings


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## FrY10cK (Oct 14, 2011)

PeterQ520 said:


> Yes, see the attached pictures and geometries.


I went back through the thread but did not see where to order these rims when they become available. I guess I'll just google "iplay carbon rim 80mm" and see what turns up?


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

Those 65mm rims are going to look good on a Troll or Instigator 2.0


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

FrY10cK said:


> I went back through the thread but did not see where to order these rims when they become available. I guess I'll just google "iplay carbon rim 80mm" and see what turns up?


We haven't listed these rims onto our website or Alibaba website yet, just to let you guys know we have these rims available to order now.

After a few months we can will list these rims and frames onto our websites.

BTW, Chinese New Year is coming, the fat bike frame will be delayed production time. we will have about 15 days holiday from Jan 26th.

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## Penetrator (May 20, 2012)

Would have done better to 100mm!


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I ordered a pair of the iPlay 80mm carbon rims and will report back with pictures. (And ride report once the rest of my carbon fatty bits arrive)


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## Penetrator (May 20, 2012)

how much is 80mm?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

deleted


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

brankulo said:


> peter quoted me $240 a rim. i have not ordered yet though.


To your front door? What about shipping and Paypal fees?


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## Penetrator (May 20, 2012)

*Sarma Naran 80*

Good price but better to buy Sarma Naran 80 
*Compatible with tubeless*
Carbon Fatbike rim Naran 80 | Sarma bikes - the best fatbikes in the world


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

rim only, shipping/paypal extra


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Penetrator said:


> Good price but better to buy Sarma Naran 80
> *Compatible with tubeless*
> Carbon Fatbike rim Naran 80 | Sarma bikes - the best fatbikes in the world


Please explain how when the Sarma rims are $830/pair at their cheapest ? And a similar weight ! I would imagine the iplay rims can be made tubeless also .

Fat Biker


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

yeah almost double the price, iplay rims could be set tubeless too imho


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

just got email from peter with geometry of their new fat bike frame. will post it later if he doesnt beat me to it. he is also saying they will have another fat frame available in march.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Oooo! I am interested in seeing the geometry. Perhaps I will order a frame from them in addition to the rims already ordered.

Chinese new year is coming up though and we should expect much of China to be on extended holiday.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

...


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

[edit: removed details not yet ready to be made public]

If the iPlay frame is 190mm spaced and actually available in the next few months, they'll have me as a customer for a frame as well as the rims I already ordered.

Emailing the company reveals that the frame is nearly finished and more details should be available soon. I can't wait.


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## AMjunky (Apr 29, 2013)

Would like to see shorter effective top tubes on the small frames 570-584mm.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Deleted at the request of brankulo 

With help from dfiler 

Thanks


Fat Biker


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Fat Biker said:


> Prospective price ?


I wouldn't pay a dime over what people are paying for the IP 256.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Why the 31.6 seat tube? seems like 30.9 is the standard, certainly for dropper posts. Is that size common with other fat bikes?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Jisch said:


> Why the 31.6 seat tube? seems like 30.9 is the standard, certainly for dropper posts. Is that size common with other fat bikes?


Seems like in my experience 31.6 is becoming "the standard" most all my frames are 31.6 . But then I only have one Fatty (with a 31.6 100mm Reverb  )

Fat Biker


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Fat Biker said:


> Any ideas on the rear hub spacing at all ?
> 
> Symmetrical/offset ?
> 
> ...


I removed the picture and post because it apparently wasn't ready for public consumption yet. More details will probably be provided within the next month.

Calling it a "clone" or a "copy" seems like jumping to conclusions. Indeed, I don't see anything about this frame that even hints of being a copy. Am I missing something? (An honest question) I'm hoping it isn't the usual slandering of a company merely for being Chinese.

Here is an interesting read on why many frames look similar.



Elvis @ Dirt Works said:


> I can answer that one. Seeing as how *Salted Bikes* is a brand owned by Dirt Works Australia (founded in 1994). We were the Australian distributor for Surly and Salsa from 2001 until very recently. What does this mean to you?
> 
> Well, it means that we have some *history*. (though that's nothing even remotely like the long rich history of Pete, Greg and the rest of the Alaskan crew)
> 
> ...


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Adroit Rider said:


> I wouldn't pay a dime over what people are paying for the IP 256.


Neither would I . Considering the IP-256 is running $600 - $620 .

The IP-256 is T800 by all accounts rather than the more common and cheaper T700 , so that would increase the price somewhat I would have thought .

But to $620 over $400-$450 seems a big jump IMHO .

If it's T700 I would probably go as high as $550 but that would be my max . Maybe another $150 for a fork too 

Fat Biker


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

peter asked me not to make the geometry public, i would remove it from whoever post it is in. 31.6 is standard i would say. 
excited about new frame. he would not comment on other fat frame yet.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Huh, I haven't really kept track on the seatpost thing, but 3/4 of the mountain bikes in my shed are 30.9 - that fourth one is 31.6 though. Its easy enough to shim a 30.9 post to 31.6 I suppose. I hate minor differences like that though - it really keeps the parts bin in my basement full of parts that no longer fit.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Got a quasi-confirmation from Carolin at LB, 90mm carbon rim, ~630g, available for order at the end of January, assuming they can source hubs they will also build wheels on request. Cost TBD.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

brankulo said:


> *peter asked me not to make the geometry public*, i would remove it from whoever post it is in. 31.6 is standard i would say.
> excited about new frame. he would not comment on other fat frame yet.


And the first thing you do is post it on a public forum ?

The second is complain that someone has used your post (that you were asked not to post) to raise some questions ?

Fat Biker

P.S. FWIW I tried to remove it (4 times but no dice - sorry)


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

great, as i was more looking for 90mm and nextie 90mm rim looks little weird to me with drilling so centered. would still get peters frame though.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

well i did but removed after he asked me to do so. there is still image that somebody else posted and removed quoted in another post


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> Calling it a "clone" or a "copy" seems like jumping to conclusions. Indeed, I don't see anything about this frame that even hints of being a copy. Am I missing something? (An honest question) I'm hoping it isn't the usual slandering of a company merely for being Chinese.


No insult to anyone intended by calling it a "clone" or a "copy" 

If I can buy part "x" from somewhere (e.g. China ) and it is substantially cheaper than my own country (or anywhere else) then my hard earned £'s are going to the whomever can provide me with the best bang per £ . My choice .

If on the other hand someone wants to support their country / small business / local retailer and pay more . That's their choice .

My way means I get to ride a "similar" product to Joe Bloggs (who paid top dollar) for a fraction of the cost . 
I can guarantee I will have a bigger smile on my face for longer . Cos what people don't seem to realise is the difference in a lot of products is not the quality but the stickers / decals that adorn them . The reason Joe Bloggs paid what he did is because he believes he is getting a better product . When in actual fact what he is getting is the same product , made in the same factory as mine was alongside his . The difference being the company Joe Bloggs bought his from charged him 2x - 4x (just an example) as much so they could still make a profit *when* his breaks and they have to replace it FOC or at "cost" .



dfiler said:


> Indeed, I don't see anything about this frame that even hints of being a copy.


You have't noticed the similarities between this and the 9:zero:7 Whiteout ?









fat Biker


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

Fat Biker said:


> You have't noticed the similarities between this and the 9:zero:7 Whiteout ?
> 
> View attachment 862617
> 
> ...


I really have no idea, however, WHEN the geo numbers were posted none of the numbers came up the same as the whiteout. Looked like it had a somewhat similar shaped top tube, but beyond that the geo numbers didn't match up.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Fat Biker said:


> ...
> You have't noticed the similarities between this and the 9:zero:7 Whiteout ?
> 
> View attachment 862617


While there are similarities, there are only a handful of looks possible for a hard tail frame. Is it even possible to invent a hard tail frame that doesn't closely resemble other frames already on the market?

Also note that there are differences. The chainstays are significantly different, meeting the dropout area above the axle. The rear brake is mounted on the chainstay instead of the seat stay. The seat tube is a different size. The head tube is taller. More bottom bracket drop. Longer top tube, etc.

Granted, it is the dipped top tube that is visually distinct and similar. Yet if they hadn't made it dipped, what bike would it look like then?

For comparison, there are many bikes out there with an almost identical curve in the top tube.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

the curve on top tube is in fact quite different than the one on 907. the flow of the curve through the seat tube and onto seat stays looks better on ip157 aesthetically imho.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Anyone not know what the word "similarities" means ?

Last I checked it never meant "exact" or "exactly the same as"

If the IP-157 was decaled up or painted to look like a Whiteout you're telling me you'd be able to tell the difference without close scrutiny (looking at geo tables)

Come on ?

You're all entitled to your own views but in my book the Whiteout was the inspiration behind the IP-157 . 
Which is no bad thing I might add .
Also please remember this was just a geo drawing and the finished item may look somewhat different in the flesh (changes could have been made before production) .

Just my 2c


Fat Biker


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## Cageracer (Aug 26, 2013)

So after quoting me USD 240 (or USD 300 shipped and paypal'd) for a 80mm carbon rim, Peter emailed me back and said the real price was actually $405.

F*ck that!


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

Not strange considering a 30mm rim from LB costs $165, a rim this size is almost 3x the material


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## Cageracer (Aug 26, 2013)

Pretty big change from the initial $240 quote though.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

Fully agree on that


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

That said, I doubt the cost of material drives this price point. I'm a bit disappointed, I thought it would come in lower (I was happy at $240).


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

yup, gotta wait what competition will show up with.


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## AMjunky (Apr 29, 2013)

Raw material cost is a bogus argument at best. From what I understand raw materials are pretty cheap in the carbon manufacturing process. It’s the process, equipment and expertise needed that drive the cost. I doubt the manufacturing process for the fat rims differs much from the regular mtb/road rims. Also fat bike rims probably use about as much material as wide road bike rims. Last I checked a 60mm clincher was $170 on LB.

$240 was barely acceptable already but reneging to $405 is absurd and total bull shiitake. Thanks for posting that Cageracer. Chinese manufacturers like Peter need to know their place and be put in their place when they get greedy. When they jack up their prices as much as possible they will loose sales. There is only so much $ I am willing to risk dealing with a shady shifty Chinese manufacturer before I realize I am better off saving a bit more and going with the “real deal”. $400 for a carbon rim is out-of-line same as a $800 carbon frame. $600 for a frame set with fork, $1000 for a rolling chassis is the magic number for me. Any more than that I and I will start thinking twice. 

Looking forward to what LB has to offer…


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

^+1


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

/\ +2


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

AMjunky said:


> ... Chinese manufacturers like Peter need to know their place and be put in their place when they get greedy.
> &#8230;


Greedy? I have never seen an ethical, greedy business man. A little economics + marketing explains Peter's pricing strategy. It is a lot easier to lower price than it is to raise price!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I should say I don't agree with everything (the comments about greed etc) in that post that I +2ed, but those prices are too high, IMO. I suppose the market will drive it to the proper price.


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## AMjunky (Apr 29, 2013)

Adroit Rider said:


> Greedy? I have never seen an ethical, greedy business man. A little economics + marketing explains Peter's pricing strategy. It is a lot easier to lower price than it is to raise price!


Hogwash! It makes much more sense to raise a products price once you have established that it is a good product, free from defects and worth the asking price. This is done over many/months years by real users not insider shills. Setting a ridiculously high price on a new product based on hype and perceived demand is risky and reckless at best. What "Peter" is doing here is shamelessly jumping on the fat bike hype wagon. He sees that there is a (over hyped) demand for the product and is pricing his product at the very limit of what he thinks people are willing to pay. Maybe he is just testing the waters and looking for a reaction. Well here it is.

Its really very simple and you have to blind as a bat not to see it. The only reason people buy carbon parts directly from China is because they are CHEAP $. If they cease to be a smoking hot no-brainer good deal people wont buy them. As far as I am concerned no one is buying Chinese direct because of ethical business practices or good customer service. Though those are very nice to have and good luck selling something with bad customer service rep especially at those prices. Hence why these reviews are so important and why Chinese manufacturers are doing there best to spam the crap out of these threads.

I am beginning to see a pattern here. Is there a reason why you are constantly defending over priced Chinese carbon?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Why so angry? 

A company offers the lowest priced carbon fatbike rim on the market and you get pissed off at them for being too expensive? And you're also complaining about chinese carbon companies posting product info to a chinese carbon thread?

I'd offer a counter argument but it doesn't seem like reasoned discussion is your goal.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

come on, if you dont agree with people buying Chinese carbon dont read this thread. this was supposed to be about options and experiences with the product, for the people willing to buy Chinese carbon. if you want to discuss ethics and crap behind it, open another thread and title it properly, so ones not interested can skip it.
thanks


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## AMjunky (Apr 29, 2013)

brankulo said:


> come on, if you dont agree with people buying Chinese carbon dont read this thread. this was supposed to be about options and experiences with the product, for the people willing to buy Chinese carbon. if you want to discuss ethics and crap behind it, open another thread and title it properly, so ones not interested can skip it.
> thanks


Huh? A little confused here. Who does not agree with people buying Chinese carbon, where was that ever under discussion?

I think every one here (myself included) is interested in buying/selling Chinese carbon. The issue at hand is PRICE. An issue you seemed to agree with a few posts back. Yeah I understand online diplomacy and all that, personally I call em' as I see em'.

Dfiler, if you have counter argument to make, please do contribute&#8230;

I think I have clearly outlined many valid points that most consumers will agree with.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

not aimed at you, or last couple posts discussing pricig, i actually like your comments a lot. just the thread in general.


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## AMjunky (Apr 29, 2013)

brankulo said:


> not aimed at you, or last couple posts discussing pricig, i actually like your comments a lot. just the thread in general.


Ah no worries, anyways back on topic. Two fat bikes I test rode and loved but could not afford were the Salsa Beargrease and the Trek Farley. An affordable carbon frame with similar trail geometry to those and with rack mounts would be awesome.


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## Cageracer (Aug 26, 2013)

dfiler said:


> the lowest priced carbon fatbike rim on the market


Only just - the Naran Sarma is only a few dollars more. I know which I'd prefer.


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## hookerlips (Dec 10, 2013)

AMjunky said:


> Ah no worries, anyways back on topic. Two fat bikes I test rode and loved but could not afford were the Salsa Beargrease and the Trek Farley. An affordable carbon frame with similar trail geometry to those and with rack mounts would be awesome.


Yeah as this price is creeping up I am thinking about just getting what I really want, the salsa beargrease.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

+1 on the price issue .
As it creeps up and up (for whatever reason) I am less and less likely to buy a carbon Chinese frame . 
At this moment I have the budget for a 29er Chinese carbon frame and a set of carbon Chinese 29er rims .
A little more saving and I might have been able to get the carbon Chinese fat bike frame and forks instead or (hopefully) as well as . If it stays at $600 (???) .
I would have liked the carbon Chinese fat rims too . At this moment though something is annoying me with the pricing structure that is being employed here . It feels like I (we - all of us showing interest) are being taken for suckers .
That is not to say that I (we) am (are) definitely , just a feeling . And it doesn't sit well . So much so I too am thinking about buying a named frame (Beargrease) and calling it quits . I do like bang / $ but I ain't gonna be taken for a mug by some greedy sales person sat at the other side of a keyboard . 
I might be taken for a ride buying a named brand but it better damn well not *feel* like it .

Rant over BOT sorry 



Fat Biker


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

I agree, if the price keep going up forget it. I will go ahead and pay a little more get the Beargrease.


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## Penetrator (May 20, 2012)

Cageracer said:


> So after quoting me (or shipped and paypal'd) for a 80mm carbon rim, Peter emailed me back and said the real price was actually
> 
> F*ck that!


Sarma 430 usd free shiping


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

This just popped up recently.

http://m.alibaba.com/product/1623857903/NEW_YEAR_2014_popular_carbon_fat/specifications.html

I would pay $500 for the rims to arrive at my front door.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)




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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

Cool looking bike. How does a consumer figure out details like what tire sizes it will take as well as price and shipping costs?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

All right, we're getting close. I'm sure in the next month or so details will come in. I don't have much experience with Alibaba, but it seems its meant for dealers to buy larger quantities? Anyway, I'm sure we can't be too far from available product now.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Just to over analyze something from pictures - the bike is shown with 4.7 Snowshoe tires, which we know are really 4.0 tires. It doesn't look like there is much room in there, but it is pretty hard to see from those pictures. The description says a max tire of 4.7, but if they are using the Snowshoe to prove 4.7" fits, then they are using a bad ruler. 

It doesn't look like the rims on the bike are the rims lower down on the page, so its hard to figure that out. 

Speculate away...


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## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

On those wheels they drilled through a double wall rim and then put a rim strip on the inner channel. So the void space will just fill with dirt or snow from the outside resulting in 20 pound wheels??


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I have drilled double wall rims on my bike, I have ridden in wet and snowy conditions, I haven't had them fill up to any appreciable degree that I noticed. Maybe it happens and I don't notice, but I don't think so. I'm not saying drilling a double wall is a good idea, I'm just saying in practice I don't notice it as an issue.


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## druidh (Aug 25, 2004)

Folk have been drilling double-wall Marges for years.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

I wouldn't pay $500 for the rims with the bike but the rims coming from Peter. Carbon Rims.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I had heard about a guy locally who runs a bike shop sort of out of his garage - he only does custom builds, some of which he does with 29er Chinese carbon frames. I sent him an email asking about these fatty frames - he's really interested in working with me, but he has no experience with fat bikes. I'm going to work with him and see what we can come up with for a price. I understand his builds are extremely affordable, we'll see. If I decide to move forward I'll start a thread with my build.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Jisch said:


> Just to over analyze something from pictures - the bike is shown with 4.7 Snowshoe tires, which we know are really 4.0 tires. It doesn't look like there is much room in there, but it is pretty hard to see from those pictures. The description says a max tire of 4.7, but if they are using the Snowshoe to prove 4.7" fits, then they are using a bad ruler.


That is my impression too. Because of that, my guess is that the synergy sports FM010 frame has 170mm spacing. Even if the frame were to fit a true 4.7/4.8 tire, it doesn't look like the chainline would clear the tire when in the lowest gears.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I sent a price inquiry via Alibaba (still don't fully understand that site) for that frame shown above. 

I got back an excel sheet, the pricing looks pretty incredible - the details are a bit hard to ascertain due to translation issues, but it looks like: 

Frame, headset, QR and fork for $650. 

Carbon 65 or 80mm rims on joytec hubs with sapim spokes for $560/pair
Alloy 100mm rims on joytec hubs with sapim spokes for $259/pair

Carbon 65 or 80mm rims are $230 each

Frame details: 190mm spacing, but requires a 5mm offset(?) for chain clearance. Rear can be ordered with either a regular QR or 12mm through axle. Fork is 142 through axle. The text says: "We have offset rear triangle(OLD 190mm=90mm+100mm) to avoid the chain touch tyre.That means if you build the wheelset,you have to adjust the rear wheel left +5mm to make the wheel in center of frame."

There is a statement at the bottom of the quote that says "The prices quotation is available in 6 months." If its translated correctly I guess that means it will take 6 months for them to get you the frame, but I wonder if its supposed to mean the price is good for 6 months. 

I'll try to post up the quote once I can convert it to pdf on my other computer.

edit - I got confirmation that the frames will be available in six months.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

That makes me wish synergy sports had a customer contact person who was fluent in English. The specs mostly seem like what i am looking for but the offset 190 is baffling. My guess is that the FM010 is not available for another 6 months. If that's the case, it is likely that closer to the release date they will have better worded specs for public consumption.

Are there any 142x15 hubs available yet? A 12mm through axle in the rear suggests it could be 197mm spacing with those dropouts. Either way, sourcing those hubs is somewhat difficult too. Getting one of these really new carbon frames really cuts down on the hub options. But overall, it still seems wise to build up a bike with through axles if possible.

Edit: Just saw your edit about the frames indeed not being available for 6 months. The race is on! Can synergy sports or iplay get their fattie to market first?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

here is the spreadsheet they sent me


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Do you guys make anything of Jish's price sheet where there is a tiny bit of picture with the words "Kenda/CST snowbike tire"? Doesn't really look like a fat tire, but the placing below the fat wheels made me wonder.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I am ignoring everything below the rims in that spreadsheet - but it does show the lack of knowledge about fat bikes they are bringing to the table. Perhaps its a naive way to look at it, but I figure if they can build a 29er frame they can build a fat bike frame. I can take care of the rest of it (tubes, tires, cranks etc) as long as I get good information and the frame is sound.


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## frorider (Apr 2, 2005)

Penetrator said:


> Sarma 430 usd free shiping


Sarma site says:

Recommended tire pressure: min 10-15 PSI
Max rider weight limit: 110 kg
Max Spoke Tension: 100 kgf
-----------
Seems like many riders would want to go below 10 psi. And 100 kgf spoke tension is lower than the limit I've seen for other chinese carbon rims e.g. Light Bicycle.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Just emailed the seller about frame geo and choice of carbon finishes. Very interested in building this into a SS fatbike with the 12 x 142 rear and 15mm front carbon fork. Also asked about shipping time but don't expect to get a straight answer on that one. Looking to put together a sub 24 lb fatty this year! :thumbsup:


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Definitely post up what you hear back, I'm very interested in going down this road too, though I'm aiming for 26lbs and 1x10 geared.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

lol, NH Mtbiker… That's exactly what i want to build up too, a through axle super light carbon SS fatty. 

Let us know what you find out. My guess is that it will be at least 3 months. I would love to be surprised though. Whichever company offers a frame at a decent price first, gets my money.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

With the 2014 Chinese New Year falling on Jan 31st and the Spring Lantern Festival on February 14th, all those carbon factories in China are sitting dormant for over another week. 

Think of all the poor mountain bikers world wide that are waiting for their factory direct carbon goods!

Allegedly my Iplay 80mm rims will ship out sometime after that multi-week holiday. This waiting is torturous. We keep getting slammed by snow storm after snow storm and here I sit without a fat bike.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

How much did you pay for the rims? and is the frame available?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The Iplay FR-026-80 rims will likely be selling for $405 each. Don't quote me on that though. I think I got the order placed before they were ready to go public with all the details. I'll be sure to post again as soon as there is anything new to report.

The frames aren't ready yet either. The rims should be out soon followed by frames. My guess is another month or two or three for fat frames.

That's a tough balance for any company to manage, especially when dealing with customers of a different culture. It is desirable to perk people's interest with advance details ahead of product availability. But release info too soon and there is the risk of customers being turned off by what are perceived as delays or changed specs.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

I received the geometry numbers for the Synergy Sports frame and fork. They sent over specs for sizes 15,17,19 & 21 inch. The A to C on the included carbon fork is at 468mm. Model # FM-M010-19"

Other details on the 19" frame include 70 d head angle and 73 d seat tube angle. Top tube is 597mm, chainstay is 467mm, seat is 483. Just to give some idea of what the L frame is spec'd at with the 190mm rear hub spacing. Also important is the rear tire spacing between the stays is at 118mm. The carbon fork also has 118mm wide tire spacing and vertical tire spacing of 382mm - or about 15 inches.
Looks good! :thumbsup:


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

That top tube seems pretty short for a Large - can you post the other sizes (picture or whatever)? Not doubting you, but I wanted to see what the other sizes look like.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Is that 190mm spacing with quick release? Most 12mm 190mm setups are actually 197mm in order to allow 3.5mm collars on each side that align the wheel during installation. To me that suggests a quick release rear dropout.

Also, will 118mm wide tire clearance fit a bud/lou on 100mm rims?

Edit: I pulled up a google-cached web page for the synergy sports FM010.

It says "Both QR & AXEL rear" which makes sense because it is pictured with replaceable dropout chips.
Bottom bracket is listed as "BSA,PF30"
It is pictured with 100mm and what appear to be vee snowshoe 4.7 tires. There is a bit of extra clearance but bud-n-lou tires are bigger than the snowshoes.


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

According to this thread, a Bud and Lou will not fit (115 width on a 100mm rim). Well it will fit, but 3mm is not much clearance.


----------



## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

An 85mm rim would be good for this frame with the 4.7 - 4.9 inches of clearance currently shown. Borealis has a real nice carbon wheel for deep pockets at $1600/set or $1999 per complete wheelset with Borealis FH1 hubs, double butted spokes, and colored alloy nipples. Would like to see an alumn version for the rest of us. Any thoughts or ideas for this frame and rim/tire size?


----------



## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Jisch said:


> That top tube seems pretty short for a Large - can you post the other sizes (picture or whatever)? Not doubting you, but I wanted to see what the other sizes look like.


Sorry, I did mis-read the spec on the top tube. The 19 in frame has 622mm top tube. The files are too large to download here so you may want to contact Synergy for your own reference.
Email: [email protected]


----------



## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

It also appears that the frame may have more than 118mm of clearance and that number is in reference to the tire they have spec'd on the frame for geometry drawings. It looks like there might be 2-3mm of additional space between the 118mm number given. Overall, this frame looks to be very close in geometry to the Borealis Yampa carbon size Large.


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Very cool. I await the ability to lighten my wallet


----------



## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Jisch said:


> Very cool. I await the ability to lighten my wallet


Right on! :thumbsup:


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Jisch said:


> Very cool. I await the ability to lighten my wallet


Ditto!


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=869945&d=1392504118

Check it out!


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

That is a beautiful frame, but it is also $2,200! I'm hoping the direct frames are a lot cheaper than that!


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

where are all the fat Chinese goodies?


----------



## SRALPH (Jun 27, 2008)

Yup, you just convinced me to cancel my recent online order. I'll spend $150 more to buy the same drivetrain from my LBS. They provide enough schwag for our fat bike races and stuff to raise funds for our IMBA club. Never seen anything donated by PricePoint or Jenson. Not even going to negotiate with internet prices.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

We did have Competitive Cyclest give us a good size grant last year. Surprised us too especially the jack hole who was pissed cuz I bought a niner frame from them a few months before only because I couldn't get it local. Otherwise I usually shop local.


----------



## Jaubert Sébastien (Feb 21, 2014)

Adroit Rider said:


>


hello,
Do you have a link?


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Jaubert Sébastien;11016392 said:


> hello,
> Do you have a link?


They keep taking it down so I posted the pictures manually.

Best thing to do is search Alibaba and see if it is back up.


----------



## Testmule (Jul 27, 2013)

Not sure where this thread is going, and I'm getting in on the tail end.

i have worked with pricing out product with Chinese suppliers and the prices they give don't usually reflect on the true price of a factory FOB order. It is common for suppliers in China to only take large orders which is usually a shipping container which will be X number of frames. 

So I think when and if this product ends up in North America it will be a much different price than you might get from a Alibaba quote.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

looks like we officially have first rim out. nextie is taking pre-orders.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I pre-ordered from synergy sports many weeks ago. Granted, that wasn't officially official.

Pre-orders would be my definition of officially not out.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i see.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

https://m.alibaba.com/product/1693851758/2014_Carbon_Fat_Bike_Frame_Max/specifications.html


----------



## 2 wheels are better (Feb 28, 2014)

Great ... Now ... How do you get one?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

It looks like you can order them by the container, you just have to figure out what to do with the other 349 frames in the container. I think we're still 2-3 months out from these being available by the frame rather than by the container.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Where the heck do you get a 120mm bottom bracket and crankset?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

That and the 5mm offset on the 190mm rear wheel (in the original Synergy frame) gave me pause. I bought a Specialized Fatboy, so I won't be buying a carbon frame, but I'm following this thread, I'm interested in where this goes and to see some of these frames (eventually) built up. 

I also saw something that said that someone bought the molds and no frames were available, but I have no idea who's mold someone bought and what impact that might have. 

For the record the Fatboy is an amazing bike, so happy to have that in the shed, I've had so many great rides this winter.


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## Tor (Jan 5, 2013)

dvn said:


> Where the heck do you get a 120mm bottom bracket and crankset?


I guess it's because it's a pressfit bottom bracket. Salsa f.ex has 41 x 121mm on their website.


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## emp? (Sep 8, 2009)

Lightest Carbon Fat Bike Snow Bicycle 190mm Rear Spacer dune buggy Carbon Frame 12X190MM Thru Axle, View 26er carbon Fat frame, OEM manufacturers Product Details from Shenzhen Featbike Sport Equipment Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I'd really like to see an actual picture of the frame instead of a rendering.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

emp? said:


> Lightest Carbon Fat Bike Snow Bicycle 190mm Rear Spacer dune buggy Carbon Frame 12X190MM Thru Axle, View 26er carbon Fat frame, OEM manufacturers Product Details from Shenzhen Featbike Sport Equipment Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


The dropout chips for 12 thru axles appear to have the inset channel for 197mm spacing. Strange that it is listed as 12x190mm.


----------



## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Still hoping to see one of these emerge in someone's hands- after a review or two, then I might jump on board...


----------



## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

I thought the eagle had landed but looks like a seller preying on foolish buyers. check it out.

Disc Brake Fat Bike 16 inch 29er MTB Carbon Frame Oversize BB92 Tarpered Headset | eBay


----------



## GreatLakesWaterman (Oct 29, 2013)

Any report on how well the invisible disc brakes work? If a brake is applied in the forest and no one can see it, does it squeal like a pig?


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm lost on what is trying to be portrayed here. That looks to be a 29er and I would never buy that frame just because of the rear caliper mount. Every time you want to take the rear wheel off you need to loosen/remove caliper. Gen 2 nimble 9's came this way then the bros sent everyone new do's


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## 2LO4U2C (Jun 9, 2011)

Why do you have to remove the caliper? My Cannondale has a rear caliper like this and I think it looks clean.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

fishwrinkle said:


> I'm lost on what is trying to be portrayed here. That looks to be a 29er and I would never buy that frame just because of the rear caliper mount. Every time you want to take the rear wheel off you need to loosen/remove caliper. Gen 2 nimble 9's came this way then the bros sent everyone new do's


I have one of the gen 2 nimble 9. The problem wasn't because the caliper was mounted near the chainstay rather than seatstay. Instead the problem was that the dropout slots were forward slanting rather than vertical. If they had been vertical, everything would have worked out fine.

In my opinion, all rear calipers should be mounted there rather than on the seatstay. It is infinitesimally lighter, shorter cable/hydro, cleaner looking, less interference with racks and most importantly, less prone to damage when crashing into or off of piles of stumps and logs.

I look forward to buying one of these frames (perhaps from synergy sports) with a chainstay mounted brake caliper.

Edit:

A bit more clarification on the N9 v2 dropout problem. The reason they moved the caliper location rather than fixing the real problem, which were the dropouts' non-vertical axle slots, was that simply moving the caliper location required sending out only one replacement part rather than two. Fixing the axle slots would have required replacing both the drive side and brake side droupouts. Moving the caliper location required only sending out replacements for the brake side dropout.

Or at least that is what seems likely to have been their justification to me. I don't actually have any inside info.

Looking at the pictures for the fatbike from Shenzhen Featbike Sport Equipment Co., Ltd. (http://feat-bikes.en.alibaba.com/pr...ne_buggy_Carbon_Frame_12X190MM_Thru_Axle.html)
It seems like they may have made that same mistake. The caliper mount is on the chainstay but the dropouts for a 197mmx12mm axle are forward facing. Perhaps the angle is small enough that it won't be a problem though.


----------



## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

honestly i didnt pay much attention to where the disk brake caliper was. I paid attention to this being called a fat bike frame and a 29er at the same time leaving some poor sob that dont know any better buying the thing thinking he was getting something that going have clearance for fat tires.


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## GreatLakesWaterman (Oct 29, 2013)

That location is where Scott Scales have the brake. It allows for a thinner seat stay.

Sent from my S2 using Tapatalk and CM 10.2


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

sorry i stand corrected


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

dfiler said:


> With the 2014 Chinese New Year falling on Jan 31st and the Spring Lantern Festival on February 14th, all those carbon factories in China are sitting dormant for over another week.
> 
> Think of all the poor mountain bikers world wide that are waiting for their factory direct carbon goods!
> 
> Allegedly my Iplay 80mm rims will ship out sometime after that multi-week holiday. This waiting is torturous. We keep getting slammed by snow storm after snow storm and here I sit without a fat bike.


Email from xmiplay this morning says that the 80mm rims, mentioned earlier in this thread, will not be available after all. This is because "a customer from the US signed a contract with our factory for the 80mm rims, we can not sell the 80mm rims to any other customer from the US any more". Hopefully my refund is not a hassle.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

do we know of anyone actually developing fat bike frame at this point? xmiplay has been very careful in their replies lately.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I am so glad I got the Fatboy, this would be driving me crazy. I heard something about someone buying the frame molds, (not the rim molds mentioned here) but I was never sure if that was directly related to these guys or who.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

yeah, i am pretty close to pulling trigger on el gordo frame. even though i dont need fat bike until next winter, i am getting pretty unpatient


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

brankulo said:


> yeah, i am pretty close to pulling trigger on el gordo frame. even though i dont need fat bike until next winter, i am getting pretty unpatient


I say if you know that is the frame for you get it now if you can, next fall who knows if it will be available.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Yep, a younger me would have been flipping out with impatience right about now.

But from the start I resigned myself to waiting for the next gen of everything to come out. This means waiting for cheap carbon rims and frame, tapered headtube, a 15mm thru-axle fork and a 197x12mm rear with enough room for 4.7" tires on 100mm rims. It'll be the slowest build ever but I can wait.

Normally I'm content with whatever is currently available. You could always be waiting for that next development. But with the fat market evolving so quickly, it seems like this year is one that will see a lot of future-proof products come out. We still aren't there on fat forks, but a suspension corrected frame with a tapered steer tube and thru-axle wheelset will do for now. That at least will make it easy and cheap to add a suspension fork a couple years from now.


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

That's exactly what I was thinking dfiler, I will probably feel a few twinges of envy when I see people starting to build them up, but I'll live :-D


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## mjb123 (May 6, 2011)

They can't be far away now....

Salted bikes has some updates on their facebook page, and I seem to recall them mentioning that their frame is an open mould leaving the door open for 3rd parties to offer the frames for sale.

https://www.facebook.com/SaltedBikes


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## Elvis @ Dirt Works (Feb 27, 2006)

mjb123 said:


> They can't be far away now....
> 
> Salted bikes has some updates on their facebook page, and I seem to recall them mentioning that their frame is an open mould leaving the door open for 3rd parties to offer the frames for sale.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/SaltedBikes


yes and no.

The Salted frame design is a mould that is owned by our agent in Taiwan and the two brands that have placed their initial orders. (100+ frames each). It will be used by Salted Bikes and one other brand (currently).

Elvis.


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## tehdually (Oct 17, 2012)

They've arrived...
Carbon Fat Bike Frame B157 With Special Fork


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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

No real description of what we would want to know in terms of details on the frame. 
I wonder what hub it takes and what size tires it can handle? I would be much happier to see this marketed as a package with carbon rims as well. Interesting though.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

raid, you beat me to the punch. can you say grey area(s)? would be nice if they did release it with 100mm carbon rims


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## tehdually (Oct 17, 2012)

Looks like 4.8" will fit..


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

$899 in case anyone was wondering, seems reasonable, though $250 more than the $650 on the early frame price I saw.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

tehdually said:


> They've arrived...
> Carbon Fat Bike Frame B157 With Special Fork


Too expensive. Not ordering. I'd pay $700 shipped for frame and fork. Max.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

There's a used Beargrease CF frame up on Facebook for $1799 which includes axles, headset and BB. I guess you're getting a known entity with the Beargrease, but I assume no warranty. 

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just adding a comparison point. If I didn't have the Fatboy already I'd be tempted.


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## Stuey (Aug 6, 2009)

Adroit Rider said:


> Too expensive. Not ordering. I'd pay $700 shipped for frame and fork. Max.


Quite a few a peering on Carbon Fat Bike Frame, Carbon Fat Bike Frame Products, Carbon Fat Bike Frame Suppliers and Manufacturers at Alibaba.com

Prices will come down


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## Stuey (Aug 6, 2009)

" Thanks for your attention to our products . I'm Alisa from LT Bike,very nice to know you . We're a factory and we can give you the products at good price .
For this carbon fat bike MTB model LTK008 , it's for disc brakes with inner cables . The rear and front fork can be both thru-axle and grooved ( 197x12mm--135x15mm / 190x10mm--135x9mm ).The head tube is tapered. The available sizes are 16"/18"/20". The surface can be 3K/12K/UD, and the bottom bracket shell is 120mm (BSA), the matched seatpost size is 31.6mm .
The price of it is $425/pcs in carbon raw finish / clear coating / matte finish . If your order is more , we can give you a discount .The matched rigid fork FK008 is $110/pcs . We can also provide you with the matched seatpost with clamp $38/pcs , headset $18/set and rear hanger for spare $10/set .
The shipping cost is $100 for one set (Frame+Fork) by air .
Any question , please contact me freely .
Hope to have a chance to cooperate with you .
Best Regards!
Alisa
Website: http://www.ltbikes.en.alibaba.com"


----------



## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

*So incredible about $450 full carbon fiber fat bike frame!*

There's a huge thread over in the 29er forum about carbon Chinese 29er frames. Based on the thread it seems like they've been pretty successful, I can't say I've read all 255(!) pages, but generally people seem pretty happy with the bikes. Basically it looks like a direct sale model where the manufacturer in China sells direct to the public. 

Yes. There is the direct sale model called M2C(Manufacturer to Consumer)

I emailed Peter, who is quite active in the 29er forum, asking if they were considering a fat bike, he responded very quickly saying that they were in the process of making the molds for a fat bike. The 29er frames are going for about $450, if the fat bike is in that range, that's a pretty cheap carbon fat bike frame!

That is so incredible. Are you sure it is full carbon fiber fat bike frame? And who is Peter? Is he the owner of some kind of factory? And what about the testing? How can he make the cheap carbon fat bike frame?!

I sent a follow up email asking for more details about the frames (hub width, geometry, axles). I'll post up when I get a response.

I'm loving my FB4, every ride is so much fun, but I keep thinking about making it lighter, the weird thing is that I never even think about making my RIP9 lighter. I guess I know I have my RIP where it needs to be from a strength perspective, but the Fatty doesn't see much/any air time, I figure it can be lighter


----------



## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Tincup69 said:


> I'm going to bed dreaming about a carbon fatty with custom paint....


 LOL. So you really want a carbon fatty with custom paint....YOU can come to me. And we are the manufacturer for the fat bike frame that you guys are talking about....But custom paint can cost some money. ^_^


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

tehdually said:


> Looks like 4.8" will fit..


 Yes. A 4.8" tire can be fit for the fatty frame. ^_^


----------



## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Jisch said:


> $899 in case anyone was wondering, seems reasonable, though $250 more than the $650 on the early frame price I saw.


 Thanks. So where did you see the $650 frame? I bet for $650 is not for the consumer price... Maybe for wholesale price...


----------



## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Adroit Rider said:


> Too expensive. Not ordering. I'd pay $700 shipped for frame and fork. Max.


....$700 including shipping cost for the frame and fork, is $700 for consumer price? That is so hard to believe..


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Does the thru-axle frame come with axles? The photos don't show axles included. Normally thru-axle forks and frames come with the axles.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

tehdually said:


> Looks like 4.8" will fit..


The rear spacing on that appears to be 183mm/190mm. That suggests a thru-axle hub alignment groove of 3.5mm per side, which accounts for the 7mm difference. But normally isn't that 190mm/197mm?

It's the 183mm dimension that is confusing me. Is that strange or am I confused?


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

agree, $899 is way too much (fork included?) when other frames go for $450.


----------



## bikecycology (Apr 26, 2010)

Sub'd


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Stuey said:


> " Thanks for your attention to our products . I'm Alisa from LT Bike,very nice to know you . We're a factory and we can give you the products at good price .
> For this carbon fat bike MTB model LTK008 , it's for disc brakes with inner cables . The rear and front fork can be both thru-axle and grooved ( 197x12mm--135x15mm / 190x10mm--135x9mm ).The head tube is tapered. The available sizes are 16"/18"/20". The surface can be 3K/12K/UD, and the bottom bracket shell is 120mm (BSA), the matched seatpost size is 31.6mm .
> The price of it is $425/pcs in carbon raw finish / clear coating / matte finish . If your order is more , we can give you a discount .The matched rigid fork FK008 is $110/pcs . We can also provide you with the matched seatpost with clamp $38/pcs , headset $18/set and rear hanger for spare $10/set .
> The shipping cost is $100 for one set (Frame+Fork) by air .
> ...


This seems more like the price I am willing to pay .

I would be interested to see what the _actual_ delivered price is going to be to the UK .

We've all seen the price jump when an actual order is placed all too often (Paypal charges , different finish up charges).

Looking at the geo diagram I can't work out if the frame is the offset one that seemed to be getting talked about initially in this thread .

Anyone with a better understanding of technical drawings shed any more light on this please ?

Fat Biker


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Fat Biker said:


> This seems more like the price I am willing to pay .
> 
> I would be interested to see what the _actual_ delivered price is going to be to the UK .
> 
> ...


The dimensioned drawing does not show an offset. Although, technically it also doesn't explicitly show that there isn't an offset.

What worries me about that drawing is that it shows a rear spacing of 183mm plus 7mm for 12mm axles for a total of 190mm. For 12mm axle setups, that should be 190mm and 197mm instead. It's like they knew that 3.5mm slots are used on each drop out to help align thru axle wheels during installation, but rather than adding 7mm to the 190mm standard, they started with too narrow of a spacing (183mm), then added 7mm to get 190mm.

Am I crazy or is that 183mm dimension wrong?


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> The dimensioned drawing does not show an offset. Although, technically it also doesn't explicitly show that there isn't an offset.
> 
> What worries me about that drawing is that it shows a rear spacing of 183mm plus 7mm for 12mm axles for a total of 190mm. For 12mm axle setups, that should be 190mm and 197mm instead. It's like they knew that 3.5mm slots are used on each drop out to help align thru axle wheels during installation, but rather than adding 7mm to the 190mm standard, they started with too narrow of a spacing (183mm), then added 7mm to get 190mm.
> 
> Am I crazy or is that 183mm dimension wrong?


I see what you're saying but the 190mm axle standard is too new for me to comment . I would like some expert opinion on this issue too or at least a list of compatible hubs/axles from the frame manufacturer .

I suppose using traditional O.L.D. measurement techniques it all depends on the diameter of the 3.5mm guide "groove" they have cut in the dropouts .
I.E. Some axles are fatter than others and are machined down to 9/10mm for the part that actually goes into the frame in a QR type axle , whilst the full axle diameter butts up to the inside of the frame .

Any help here guys ?

Fat Biker


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Hmmm, i'm not following what you're getting at. Could you explain more?

As far as I know, the 190mm and 197mm standards are clear and consistent between all manufacturers. Or at least they are in terms of hub and dropout dimensions. The only non-standardized part of this are the axles. 12mm rear axles are typically supplied with the frame because the threading and exact outer lengths are different between manufacturers. However, the diameter, spacing for the hub and 3.5mm slots are all standard.

That's why the 183mm number is so baffling. If true, no hubs would fit it.

Yet the q2cycling website also lists "Front Fork Spacing: 150mm". Assuming that the fork actually uses a 135mm hub, the 150 "spacing" probably refers to the tire clearance between the legs. Perhaps the person putting out this info is confused about which dimensions should be included and what the term "spacing" refers to.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Yeah, lot's of posts from me this morning. Hopefully that's a good thing rather than bad. ;-)

I emailed q2cycling questions about the rear spacing and will report back with the answer.

The q2cycling FM-B157+FK (Lightweight Upgraded 907 Version Carbon Fat Bike Frame B157 With Special & Better Fork + Head Tube) is the one with the drawing currently being discussed.

Interesting to note that this frame is described as "upgraded 907 version" on the q2cycling website. Indeed, the frame is similar to the 9:zero:7 whiteout. Previously in this thread I had argued that the similarity was trivial. But with the frame now being described as a 907 version, it lends credence to this being largely a copy or at least intentionally styled after the 907. The sizing is similar except that the larger two of the three 907 sizes match the smaller two of the three q2cycling sizes. If I'm looking at that right, the q2 frame is available in what might be described as Medium, Large and Extra-Large.

Within the past day, the webpage for this frame has been updated slightly. The dimensioned drawing was added and a few specs. I like the new overlay on the headtube picture that says "Aero & Wild Head Tube".

Linked from the q2cycling website is a blog. Interesting...

*Fat Bike & Popularity It Becomes*
Fat Bike Frame | I Am 4 Journey



> Then we also find there are the fat bikes as well. People from the cold & snowy places can also have the cycling fun. *Q2 Cycling* firstly noticed the fat bike market when one of our customers let us develop the fat bikes frames together with them. So I looked into the Wikipedia:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[edited to remove a photo of questionable origin]


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

q2cycling replied with the following:
"Sorry but the frame can't fit a 197mm hub unless we need to make a bit change about the molding tools, which will cost $1000 for that happen."

Strange, it looks like a thru-axle but only allows 190mm and not 197mm. I've written back for clarification. Is there such thing as a 12x190mm hub? Or are all 12mm hubs 197mm. (or 177mm for 170mm hub bodies)

I've also inquired about the "150mm spacing" fork, and if axles are included.

This could be an excellent product but they've got a bit of work to do in adequately describing the specifications.


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

You have to assume they took measurements off an existing frame, and I would think all would be ok. Someone has to take the chance and order one :-D

You're right though, if they want to sell these things they need better engineer to customer interface.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

They're working on it. Here's the most recent email reply. I had asked a whole bunch of stuff, including about the 150mm fork spacing, if the fork is front or rear disc spaced, and if axles are included. 

Here is the response:
"Regarding the following question, I will have a discussion with our engineer tomorrow.

I will come back to you as soon as possible. Thanks for your suggestion. We do need to add all the possible information to our website."

That seems like a reasonable response to me. This is new so they're still getting it sorted out. I'll be the guinea pig and order as soon as it is confirmed not to have bizarre hub spacings.


----------



## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

I wonder if this woman knows that her picture is being used for this company's PR. She was (or a friend of her's was) a member here that originally posted a set of those pictures.









Isn't she friends with the guy in the classic bikejoring picture, with the dog out in front pulling the guy in the animal skin hat and snow blustering around them as they speed past the camera?


----------



## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Jisch said:


> However, it sounds like the molds they are making will be based on these designs. I asked him to let me know when they are making their own to sell.
> 
> His name is PeterQ520 on mtbr and he has his email address in all his posts ([email protected]).


Can you send the picture for the fat bike frame that this Peter can offer, Please?


----------



## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Fat Urkel said:


> That's how I justified spending the extra to go Ti. My Grandma Estelle always told me she was "too cheap to buy twice."


True. Too cheap. We have to think twice. I don't know why they can sell such a cheap price for consumer. I mean, for our fat bike frame, we can't even sell $500 if you order like 100 sets. There are the cost, the material, the labor cost, the testing cost.... You can't even cover the cost.


----------



## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

That's so true....



buckfiddious said:


> Just gonna throw this out here, back when Trek and specialized announced that they were gonna be making fatbikes, there was a whole lot of hue and cry about how they were just aping the little guys and shoving them out of the way and were just gonna destroy fatbikes/flood the market with cheap crap and destroy fatback, 907, etc.
> 
> But apparently, buying a chinese knock-off isn't going to destroy anything, because they're cheap and we all really want carbon fatbikes and 2k is just crazy money for a frame and and and and...
> 
> ...


----------



## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Pancake Adventure said:


> Uh, the reality is that bike companies pay for all of the tooling, testing, and design on unique products like fatbikes and fat rims.


True. Yes. Bike factories like us,actually we pay the tooling, moulding, testing and a lot of cost. We won't be just satisfied with the OE orders. So we want to sell directly to consumers, to the owners of the bike shops, to the wholesalers... But sometimes, the OE order quantity can be large, so they aren't happy about it.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Chader09 said:


> Actually, you don't know exactly what they do unless you have spoken with someone about the exact example.
> 
> Sometimes, the sourcing company (907, etc.) pays for the design and tooling. Usually, if this is the case, the sourcing company has full rights to the tooling and any parts that come out of it. (but not always)
> 
> ...


Yes. If the sourcing company paid for the tools, we won't sell to anyone else... That's the principle here.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

bme107 said:


> I wonder if this woman knows that her picture is being used for this company's PR. She was (or a friend of her's was) a member here that originally posted a set of those pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I got this picture from Wikipedia. The picture is used there. If it is not OK for us to use the public pictures fro image, we will delete the pictures.


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## dcrowe (Oct 9, 2009)

bme107 said:


> I wonder if this woman knows that her picture is being used for this company's PR. She was (or a friend of her's was) a member here that originally posted a set of those pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good eye. I know both the rider and shooter. Just sent the photog a note to see if he was aware of this use.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

q2cyling said:


> Can you send the picture for the fat bike frame that this Peter can offer, Please?


I believe that they pulled their offer back due to someone buying the molds they were expecting to use.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

deleted.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Jisch said:


> I believe that they pulled their offer back due to someone buying the molds they were expecting to use.


That was definitely true of the 80mm rims I ordered from synergy sports / xmiplay. However I haven't seen anything new regarding the fatbike that they may eventually offer.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

dfiler said:


> That was definitely true of the 80mm rims I ordered from synergy sports / xmiplay. However I haven't seen anything new regarding the fatbike that they may eventually offer.


Maybe I got those confused.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I received email from q2cycling answering questions about their fat frame. The answers have me more confused than before.

The fork comes with a 15mm axle with a hub spacing of 150mm. 135x15mm front hubs won't work.

I'm still not sure if the rear spacing is indeed 190x12mm or 197x12mm. My interpretation is that it is 190x12mm. 

Recommended hubs are:
"Chosen A4786B(150mm), A8777B(190mm)
Yu Hub"

Googling hasn't turned anything up. Anyone know about these hubs?

If all these specs are accurate, this will end up being quite a bit different than the 907 that it resembles. It also means that I can't use this frame or fork with my hope hubs.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

That's weird, never heard of 150 spacing unless you use a rear hub in front.

I found this: YU HUB INDUSTRIAL CO., LTD - Products

...but I don't see anything 150mm, its hard to navigate their site though.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

q2cyling said:


> Sorry, but I got this picture from Wikipedia. The picture is used there. If it is not OK for us to use the public pictures fro image, we will delete the pictures.


That is my photo, just because it is posted to Wikipedia doesn't mean that it is in the public domain.

The terms of the Creative Commons License require that you provide _appropriate credit_. In this case, the minimum was that you should have credited Wikipedia and the photographer, Anthony DeLorenzo. You should also provide a link directly back to the source wherever possible.

I also find it amusing that you are selling mass-produced carbon bikes by using a picture of a hand built titanium bike.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Jisch said:


> That's weird, never heard of 150 spacing unless you use a rear hub in front.
> 
> I found this: YU HUB INDUSTRIAL CO., LTD - Products
> 
> ...but I don't see anything 150mm, its hard to navigate their site though.


Notice the bit at the end of this article about forks seen at the Tai Bike Show:

Taipei Show Round Up: Fat Bikes are Big


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

If 150mm is going to become a standard (or someone is going to make hubs!) it seems like the impetus would come from one of the major manufacturers first. I suppose you can buy a fork elsewhere for this bike, but it seems kind of short sighted to try to force a new standard with a brand new frame on the low end of the price spectrum.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

anthony.delorenzo said:


> That is my photo, just because it is posted to Wikipedia doesn't mean that it is in the public domain.
> 
> The terms of the Creative Commons License require that you provide _appropriate credit_. In this case, the minimum was that you should have credited Wikipedia and the photographer, Anthony DeLorenzo. You should also provide a link directly back to the source wherever possible.
> 
> I also find it amusing that you are selling mass-produced carbon bikes by using a picture of a hand built titanium bike.


Hey Anthony,

I did state that it is from Wikipedia, like a definition. Sorry. If you feel violated, I will delete your photo right away.

Anyway, if your picture was taken by Wikipedia, I bet you are quite a person in the fat bike riding.

About hand built titanium bike, I bet it was shown in our news. For all the products, it is our carbon bike pictures. Thanks for your mention.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Jisch said:


> If 150mm is going to become a standard (or someone is going to make hubs!) it seems like the impetus would come from one of the major manufacturers first. I suppose you can buy a fork elsewhere for this bike, but it seems kind of short sighted to try to force a new standard with a brand new frame on the low end of the price spectrum.


I think 150mm will become the new standard. There are quite a few hubs companies
that can provide this kind of hubs. I can also send you guys the hubs geometry...

So the major customers notice that we are selling online. Although it is our mold, they aren't happy about it, obviously. Because we are selling much lower price than them. Of course, we cherish them very much. So I think we will not show on our online store for now. But I want to hear about you guys' opinion about this thing. How do you think of a typical Chinese manufacturer should do? When there is no violation of agreements, should they try to have their direct way of selling? Or should they just be the way they are, just produce stuff?


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

*Q2 Cycling Fat Bike Frame Questions*

To the folks who love the Q2 Cycling Carbon fat bike frame,

Thanks for you guys' discussion about the frame. It seems everybody is quite confused about the hubs.

Here we can provide some information to you guys, that some companies have already made the hubs with the requirements.

For more information, please kindly  click here to see the hub brands, and their drawings about it.

If you guys have any other question, let me know.

You guys' professional discussion is really helping us. Thanks a lot.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Personally I have no problem with you selling frames directly to consumers. I believe in an open market. However if I were you I would change the name of the frame. If you read through this thread you can see there is a lot of suspicion about piracy regarding direct sale products like this - using a competitor's name as the name of your frame just increases that suspicion. In the western world we like competition and innovation, but dislike copying, your marketing material sounds a lot more like copying than innovating. 

While I see that you have listed four manufacturers of 150mm hubs, I still think it will be tough to sell those forks until we can buy hubs from one of the major manufacturers (Hope, King, Shimano etc). I have heard of some of those brands you list, but I would not buy one, I want to know I've got support if something breaks or wears out. This is especially true when you are selling just a frame - the people who buy these will be people who are comfortable building things up themselves and are going to look for what they perceive as quality hubs. Those you list may be just as good as one of the name brands, but they have no reputation here. 

Just my opinion.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The information is that blog entry is really helpful. Every customer will need to know this info before buying the frame and fork.

From an American perspective, most customers will want even more help in finding and buying hubs. We have never seen hubs of this size and the companies listed aren't selling their products on the American market. I tried googling the hubs but could not find them on a manufacturer website or for sale from any website. We will need to know how much the hubs cost and where they can be purchased.

I can't comment on other markets. Is the same true for Europe and other regions?

This frame and fork look like an excellent design, perhaps even the best on the market. Unfortunately the hub requirements make it unappealing to most customers. While the 150mm front hub might become a popular size/standard once fat suspension forks are common, there are not yet any 150mm hubs available. Or at least nobody here would be able to find them. The 190mmx12 instead of 197x12mm rear hub seems pointlessly different but otherwise ok.

If I hadn't already bought hope hubs, carbon rims and spokes sized for these, this frame is exactly what I would buy. That is, if the hubs are actually available. For now I will have to continue searching for a cheap carbon frame that can fit a 135x15mm front hub and a 197x12mm or 190xQR rear hub.


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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

I will throw my opinion in as well. I LOVE the look of this frame. I also really like the look of the new carbon rims (Nextie?). What holds me back is the same thing that has kept me from buying a fat bike to this point. It is too complicated to buy one. I am betting that things will all seem a lot more clear after Sea Otter this year when everyone shows their new models and standards. I suspect that this new standard is related to the upcoming suspension fork(s?).


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Jisch said:


> Personally I have no problem with you selling frames directly to consumers. I believe in an open market. However if I were you I would change the name of the frame. If you read through this thread you can see there is a lot of suspicion about piracy regarding direct sale products like this - using a competitor's name as the name of your frame just increases that suspicion. In the western world we like competition and innovation, but dislike copying, your marketing material sounds a lot more like copying than innovating.
> 
> While I see that you have listed four manufacturers of 150mm hubs, I still think it will be tough to sell those forks until we can buy hubs from one of the major manufacturers (Hope, King, Shimano etc). I have heard of some of those brands you list, but I would not buy one, I want to know I've got support if something breaks or wears out. This is especially true when you are selling just a frame - the people who buy these will be people who are comfortable building things up themselves and are going to look for what they perceive as quality hubs. Those you list may be just as good as one of the name brands, but they have no reputation here.
> 
> Just my opinion.


You are right about the first part. It is not cool for us to use the competitor's name in our marketing material. So we will delete the relative material right away. So for people in our country, sometimes we don't think there is a violation, but in fact, it is. So we need to learn this from the western world...

I do believe in innovation also...

Thanks about your information about the hub manufacturers that the western world prefer...


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

On second thought...

If I can actually buy compatible hubs, I am crazy enough to sell my hope hubs (which have been stuck in US customs for weeks), and be the first to try this frame. That's right, I will sell the hubs I haven't even taken delivery of yet. 

Thank you for being so quick to answer questions and receptive of feedback q2cycling. It is fun to see a company learn how to bring a new product to a foreign market. I am also excited to see that this frame is not just a complete copy of the 9:zero:7 frame.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

dfiler said:


> On second thought...
> 
> If I can actually buy compatible hubs, I am crazy enough to sell my hope hubs (which have been stuck in US customs for weeks), and be the first to try this frame. That's right, I will sell the hubs I haven't even taken delivery of yet.
> 
> Thank you for being so quick to answer questions and receptive of feedback q2cycling. It is fun to see a company learn how to bring a new product to a foreign market. I am also excited to see that this frame is not just a complete copy of the 9:zero:7 frame.


Go man GO!


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

dfiler said:


> On second thought...
> 
> If I can actually buy compatible hubs, I am crazy enough to sell my hope hubs (which have been stuck in US customs for weeks), and be the first to try this frame. That's right, I will sell the hubs I haven't even taken delivery of yet.
> 
> Thank you for being so quick to answer questions and receptive of feedback q2cycling. It is fun to see a company learn how to bring a new product to a foreign market. I am also excited to see that this frame is not just a complete copy of the 9:zero:7 frame.


I enjoy talking to you guys and seeing the discussion, I can learn quite a lot from you. The market, the things you like, and the way to express some technological parts in English.

I think it is important for Chinese manufacturers to learn that if we don't want to be a factory that is producing stuff forever. Great sales come after the professional knowledge, the caring for customers, the integrity of the company.... ^_^

Just for information，if you guys are worried about the hubs. We can help you purchase the hubs that we are mentioning. Chosen and Joy sent us the price list when they know we have the fat bike frame. Of course, they are just Joy and Chosen... but not Chris King, Hope, Shimano... for now.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Good to hear. I have written back to the q2cycling service email account (Elaine), explaining that I want to buy the frame and fork, but only if the hubs are available.

Are the frames ready to ship or are they still being designed and manufactured?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

q2cyling said:


> Just for information，if you guys are worried about the hubs. We can help you purchase the hubs that we are mentioning. Chosen and Joy sent us the price list when they know we have the fat bike frame. Of course, they are just Joy and Chosen... but not Chris King, Hope, Shimano... for now.


It may make sense to offer those hubs with the frame as an option.
The bad part is if the hub fails... parts or replacement options won't be readily available to most of the world.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

dfiler said:


> Good to hear. I have written back to the q2cycling service email account (Elaine), explaining that I want to buy the frame and fork, but only if the hubs are available.
> 
> Are the frames ready to ship or are they still being designed and manufactured?


The frame was developed later last year, and was tested successfully just before the Taipei Show. Right now, we do have the orders under production, but it will only be finished at the end of this month.

Can I know the size and BB you like for the frame?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Thanks! I will reply via email to work out ordering details.

Edit:

While choosing a size I noticed that the buying options (in the popup menu) are 15", 17" and 19". However the specifications chart lists sizes 17", 19" and 21".

The middle of the three sizes on the chart has the dimensions I would like to order. That is listed on the chart as the 19" frame. From the popup menu that would mean I choose the largest option (19") instead of the middle size. Is that correct? The difference between the two size lists is confusing.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

sell direct, i dont need $1000 dollar stickers from your "major" customers. i can make my own for 20 bucks.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

dfiler said:


> Thanks! I will reply via email to work out ordering details.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


Yes. Size 19" is the largest here. Sorry we made a mistake about the sizing chart then. Size 21" is too big, so we can't see the market then. So right now, there are just 15", 17" and 19". And on the chart, we must delete the 21" line and put the 15" numbers in it.


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

brankulo said:


> sell direct, i dont need $1000 dollar stickers from your "major" customers. i can make my own for 20 bucks.


If it wasn't for those "major" customers it seems Q2 cycling wouldn't have designs to rip off. brankulo, how about I essentially copy your architecture designs, change just a small part, and then sell them so people would not have to pay $1,000's for your name on paperwork?


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

brankulo said:


> sell direct, i dont need $1000 dollar stickers from your "major" customers. i can make my own for 20 bucks.


Thanks... That is how it works in the business world. 
But the major customers, they do have more experience in the marketing and sales.. So maybe they have better management...


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i totally agree with you on this, but i am under impression that someone else not 9 zero 7 is who he refers to as "major" customer for this frame. in that case i think my comment makes a point as i doubt they will be selling it for $899. basically, you open the company, have 100 rip off frames made, put your own decals and sell it for double the price.


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

brankulo said:


> i totally agree with you on this, but i am under impression that someone else not 9 zero 7 is who he refers to as "major" customer for this frame. in that case i think my comment makes a point as i doubt they will be selling it for $899. basically, you open the company, have 100 rip off frames made, put your own decals and sell it for double the price.


Lamere talked about investing a huge amount of money (ie. 2nd mortgage kind of thing) to get his frames made, I know 9:ZERO:7 also invested a ton of money, both assumed a lot of risk. Both it seems spent a lot of money on design and OWNING their own molds. I don't care who Q2 copies, it is at best highly unethical. If you feel alright supporting it go ahead, then I will be alright when your designs are copied and sold for a cheaper amount through China. I will give them a company name, "Improved HuRa Designs".


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i dont mind being copied, you know what they are saying about copying, dont you?anyways, i will gladly buy this frame if it proves to be functional.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Interesting, the hub diagrams have been removed from q2cycling's blog post that was linked to earlier. Also, the B157 fatbike page is not accessible on their website right now. Hopefully that means they're figuring out the details and are actively working on it. http://www.shop-q2cycling.com/Fat-Bike-Frame/pro-p8482.html

On a separate topic:

I don't find anything wrong with the business model here. Everyone involved in the bike industry invests money in their portion of that business. Chinese factories are the world leaders in the processes and technology required to build carbon bicycle components. That did not come cheaply. We have nothing to suggest that any company mentioned here, signed a closed mold contract and then breached that contract.

Earlier they were accused of copying 9:zero:7 but now we've found out there are major differences between the B157 and the whiteout. It was also suggested that another major bike company commissioned the mold for an upcoming bike. If that's the case, will the same criticism of copying 9:zero:7 be made of that other major bike company?

In my opinion, the moral high ground doesn't involve buying from relatively wealthy western companies who hire cheap foreign labor. Nor do I share the currently popular notion of idea ownership enforced at the end of a gun. (western patent law) Buying directly from factories will likely result in a more equitable distribution of wealth. And the existence of these factories is driving technological innovation. In other words, I consider the purchasing of these frames to be completely ethical.


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

dfiler said:


> I don't find anything wrong with the business model here. Everyone involved in the bike industry invests money in their portion of that business. Chinese factories are the world leaders in the processes and technology required to build carbon bicycle components. That did not come cheaply. We have nothing to suggest that any company mentioned here, signed a closed mold contract and then breached that contract.
> 
> Earlier they were accused of copying 9:zero:7 but now we've found out there are major differences between the B157 and the whiteout. It was also suggested that another major bike company commissioned the mold for an upcoming bike. If that's the case, will the same criticism of copying 9:zero:7 be made of that other major bike company?
> 
> In my opinion, the moral high ground doesn't involve buying from relatively wealthy western companies who hire cheap foreign labor. Nor do I share the currently popular notion of idea ownership enforced at the end of a gun. (western patent law) Buying directly from factories will likely result in a more equitable distribution of wealth. And the existence of these factories is driving technological innovation. In other words, I consider the purchasing of these frames to be completely ethical.


You can play it how you want, but Q2 here is specifically trying to piggyback off an established brand through design copy and marketing, NOT make their own original design and marketing themselves.

Distribution of wealth? Seriously? How about stand on your own two feet and play fair?

My problem is not with their direct selling, it is with the blatant attempt to use other companies to do it.

Supporting companies that do business like this is putting a price tag on your own ethics. With that, I am done.


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

brankulo said:


> i dont mind being copied, you know what they are saying about copying, dont you?anyways, i will gladly buy this frame if it proves to be functional.


Then you are either ignorant or don't care about working hard and taking on risk so that others can profit off of it.


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## GalenCopes (Dec 5, 2013)

Logantri said:


> Lamere talked about investing a huge amount of money (ie. 2nd mortgage kind of thing) to get his frames made, I know 9:ZERO:7 also invested a ton of money, both assumed a lot of risk. Both it seems spent a lot of money on design and OWNING their own molds. I don't care who Q2 copies, it is at best highly unethical. If you feel alright supporting it go ahead, then I will be alright when your designs are copied and sold for a cheaper amount through China. I will give them a company name, "Improved HuRa Designs".


With the current hub requirements, exactly whose design do you believe they copied. I wish they would have copied better.

Galen


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

[Deleted]

In attempt to not derail the thread, I have deleted my post on ethics.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i think i am just confident in the work i do, but lets not derail this thread


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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

There are only so many ways to make these things. EVERY bike company is ripping off an idea from another company that ripped the idea off from another company and so on. Can we just have a separate thread for ethics? Nobody ever changes anyone else's mind in these arguments. We have seen them over and over about things like Wallgoose, Chinese carbon rims, Bikes Direct, etc.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

i'm glad to see this thread is finally coming around with actual product. lugantri, you're funny. first of all your avi description says your "living the thug life", so you're out robbing, raping, murdering, slingin' sacks and pilfering everything in your path, then you come in here to preach moral/work ethics? pfff! :ciappa: well if companies go to china to do work they know what they are getting into or they are ignorant. think of this company like BASF, they don't make the things, they just make the things better. so 907 is all bent that their **** is kinda being copied and might feel the hit because they lose business? here's an idea, 907 should drop their price then to compete. i know that they can't price match, but to be 2.5x's the price that's riDICKulous. if 907 really wanted to have an edge then maybe they should learn how to do layup themselves, right her in merica! :thumbsup: i'm done w/ you

edit: i was using 9 zero 7 as pure example due to their name being used already. dfiler your right, i don't know their stance


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

No need to criticize 907 either. They aren't involved in this conversation so we shouldn't assume anything about their stance.


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

dfiler said:


> No need to criticize 907 either. They aren't involved in this conversation so we shouldn't assume anything about their stance.


Absolutely.

BTW, fish guy, I assume you know the "thug life " comment is meant as a joke, much like I don't actually think you look like Jack Kervorkian.

On another note, anyone take into consideration the fact if the rear end is 190 thru axle it will bring the chainline in 7mm from everyone else's (190mm qr or 197mm thru). That may or may not be a problem for chain line issues with shifting/tire rub.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Well it looks like q2cycling won't be selling the frame, or at least not right now. They were kind enough to reply via email and explain the situation. 

In the coming year we will see some exciting bikes coming out of these Chinese factories. But for now he wait continues.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Like the business model or not, you have to admit this is interesting and I, for one, have learned a lot in watching this move forward. 

Care to share any more details dfiler? Maybe q2cycling will come back and explain. I'm curious what happened?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Copying email verbatim to a forum is something I don't do without permission. q2cycling has been excellent to deal with and I wouldn't want to try and speak for them. What I will say is that it doesn't appear anything illegal was going on, but rather that they have important relationships to maintain with key business partners. That's complete speculation on my part.

It is somewhat ironic, that the customer service I've received far exceeded that commonly experienced with major brands. For instance, I contacted Hope for information about their hubs and let them know their website had incorrect information. Multiple times I informed them about their website being wrong and they didn't even bother to acknowledge the topic. To this day it is still broken, the tech support section is missing entirely. On the other hand, q2cycling immediately updated their online content multiple times in order to accurately portray their product. Manufacturers like q2cycling are hungry and capable of competing with the more established brands. They are still learning but are on the right track to take over a significant chunk of sales. It is fun to watch the bike industry evolve!


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Thanks dfiler. 

Yes. Traditional Chinese manufacturers are very rush to have profit. Maybe it is because we have been poor for so long, and aren't so educated, civilized or even Godly. So we don't have quite a reputation among the western world. We were copying the ideas and even didn't pay attention to the quality. But all we cared were orders...

But gradually, I believe China is changing, especially the people in my generation are beginning to have important positions in the business or even in the politics. Our generation loves Western culture ( the music, the movie, the show, the literature or even the faith...) We believe in free market, in democracy, in dream...

For me, I love working. I believe hard working can help you have a difference in your life. So I am trying to have the best work performance. Learning from you guys are of very help for that, Like Jisch put, I am also learning so much to see this move forward. 

Sorry, I am kind of emotional. 

For now, the fat frame won't be available to sale online. Because we have to maintain the positive business relationship with the key partners, as dfiler put. But I believe it is just for now...Also I hope everyone can trust us that there is truly no illegal things happened. 


I hope gradually, the fat bike frameset will bring the major hub manufacturers have the 150mm and 190mm hubs available on the market. So that we all can enjoy the fun of fat bike riding....

Cheers...


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

*RockShox Fat Bike Fork: 100mm Bluto RL*

Hey Guys, how about this news.

RockShox Fat Bike Fork: 100mm Bluto RL
The Fat Cat's Out of the Bag

So nice to read the news!

So CA will start the Sea Otter in a few days. I hope folks can share the news and trend then... Considering it will be in USA...And I also see what will happen in the Shanghai Show next week....


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Someone mentioned in another thread that the 190x12mm rear spacing was a mistake on the carbon prototype frame they had sitting in front of them and that the manufacturer was redesigning it to be 197x12mm. They also said that it was likely the same frame as previewed by q2cycling. Can you confirm if it is being redesigned to be 197x12mm?


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

dfiler said:


> Someone mentioned in another thread that the 190x12mm rear spacing was a mistake on the carbon prototype frame they had sitting in front of them and that the manufacturer was redesigning it to be 197x12mm. They also said that it was likely the same frame as previewed by q2cycling. Can you confirm if it is being redesigned to be 197x12mm?


Can you send the link to me? That is weird.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The thread disappeared or was deleted. It was the one talking about the RockShox Bluto fork. However I was able to copy some of the info from email notifications.

"As you say, the 7mm is just the width of the slots, so a 142 is just a TA ready 135 width and 197 is just a TA ready 190.
A TA that measures 190 inside slot-inside slot is just a wrong design, plain and simple, and is rectified as we speak..."

I can't find the other replies but I remember someone, perhaps the same person saying that they were sitting next to one of the 190mm spaced frames. Hopefully they can reply with more information.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

dfiler said:


> The thread disappeared or was deleted. It was the one talking about the RockShox Bluto fork. However I was able to copy some of the info from email notifications.
> 
> Espen W:
> "As you say, the 7mm is just the width of the slots, so a 142 is just a TA ready 135 width and 197 is just a TA ready 190.
> ...


Thanks for your information, dfiler. I don't think it is true. The rear is still the 190mm x 12mm....


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## keyhavenpotterer (Feb 22, 2013)

The website has framesets for sale and says the hub problem is solved as 150/190mm will become standard?

Q2 Cycling 100% Toray T700 Aero Carbon Fiber Fat Bike Frameset 2014 New Design-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

So, where you you buy hubs from?

Brian


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

every time i see this bike listed the price keeps creeping north. i think i'll just buy a used moonie for ~$1500 as this will be my 1st fatty


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## keyhavenpotterer (Feb 22, 2013)

Son's just called in and found that Q2 supply the complete assembled wheelset to match their frame

26+er Full Carbon Fiber Fat Bike Wheelset Novatec 150mm Front Spacing 190mm Rear Spacing-in Bicycle Wheel from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

Brian


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

So basically $1700 for a "rolling chassis" - though I'm not sure if the wheel is built or just the hub and rim?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

that looks like nextie rim. not interested in frame anymore at this price point. rims, maybe.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

keyhavenpotterer said:


> Son's just called in and found that Q2 supply the complete assembled wheelset to match their frame
> 
> 26+er Full Carbon Fiber Fat Bike Wheelset Novatec 150mm Front Spacing 190mm Rear Spacing-in Bicycle Wheel from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com
> 
> Brian


Could just be the site "squishing" the pics but if that's a 150/190 hubset in them pics I'll eat my shorts LOL

As others have said regarding the price they are rapidly pricing themselves out of the market here .

No offence to Q2 but I don't think many people would be prepared to risk the kind of cash they're asking for an "unheard of" manufacturer of carbon bicycle parts with an unproven quality and track record for customer warranty returns .

I could be way off and I hope I'm wrong .
The price of the rolling chassis needs to come down substantially for me to get involved at this point .

YOMV

Fat Biker


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Those rims are porkers too. I'll pass.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Isn't it still less than half the price of the whiteout frame? That puts it within reach for me. 

150mm front hubs should be widely available soon now that the rockshox bluto has been announced. I would bet that many brands start including it in their normal builds/bundles. 

The 190x12mmmm rear hub is still baffling though. It would be the only frame in the world with that spacing. I hope it ends up being 197x12mm.


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## anortherncrazy (Feb 23, 2011)

The Whiteout frame is worth the money. I know it's a lot, but it's worth it. Have had mine since September and I have put a hurting on it to the tune of at least 2K miles here in AK and six weeks in Hawaii. And I ride things like I hate them...


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

anortherncrazy said:


> The Whiteout frame is worth the money. I know it's a lot, but it's worth it. Have had mine since September and I have put a hurting on it to the tune of at least 2K miles here in AK and six weeks in Hawaii. And I ride things like I hate them...


Exactly .

The q2 frame might be quality but would it stand upto this punishment ?
At half the price of a whiteout IF the q2 busts up and you get zero response from warranty what are you gonna get next ? Particularly with that unique rear 190 spacing .
One of the attractions of the chinese carbon 29er's that people keep quoting is the low price and "so what if it busts" attitude "it's so cheap I'll just buy another one and still be 50% better off than if I'd bought "X" frame" can anyone say that about this now .

Currently $919 for frameset alone excluding shipping 

Fat Biker


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

It would be easy peasy to fit a 197mm hope hub into a 190mm spacing, prolly about 20 clams at your local machine shop. That being said there are so many frames in this price point or close that I would sooner be on. Sure they might be a pound heavier but so friggen what, they will last and hold a little resale.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

So I've followed this thread for quite some time, but I've missed whether this Q2 frame is actually available for single unit purchase. I seem to remember it being open, then pulled, then back again at a different price, then pulled, then available only in bulk purchase, and then pulled, and now back out at this new price. Am I confusing Q2 with other frames?

Has anyone actually purchased a Q2 frame? Are there any other players in the overseas carbon fat bike game yet? By now, or at least before next winter, I would have expected there to be a handful of these direct frames available. It's moving slower than I thought.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Slow Danger said:


> So I've followed this thread for quite some time, but I've missed whether this Q2 frame is actually available for single unit purchase. I seem to remember it being open, then pulled, then back again at a different price, then pulled, then available only in bulk purchase, and then pulled, and now back out at this new price. Am I confusing Q2 with other frames?
> 
> Has anyone actually purchased a Q2 frame? Are there any other players in the overseas carbon fat bike game yet? By now, or at least before next winter, I would have expected there to be a handful of these direct frames available. It's moving slower than I thought.


I just got back from Shanghai Show. 
We have removed all the products online. Sorry guys. As for the price on Aliexpress, it has been there for quite some time. And because we have to pay the higher commission to Aliexpress, and we want to promote our online store, the price there is a bit higher than what it used to be at Q2 online Store...

Sorry guys, but the frameset won't be available for sell online for now. But I would love to share the news about the fat boy and the hubs thing from what I learned at Shanghai show.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

If you click on the Q2 link above it says "this item no longer available". Not a very good way to get your product out in the market!


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Jisch said:


> So basically $1700 for a "rolling chassis" - though I'm not sure if the wheel is built or just the hub and rim?


The wheelset are built....^_^ With rims, hubs, and spokes....


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Jisch said:


> If you click on the Q2 link above it says "this item no longer available". Not a very good way to get your product out in the market!


Yes. I know. I hate to see this also...That's so bad.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

I find all this very confusing. There is a bike. There isn't a bike. I get the feeling there's a lot of manipulation for contracts going on. I seem to remember another company was going to make a frame available until some US distributor/company bought the molds. 

So is there a single, available, carbon fat frame that can be ordered direct from overseas?


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

this is one of the silliest dog n pony shows i've been to in a while.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

fishwrinkle said:


> this is one of the silliest dog n pony shows i've been to in a while.


Sorry. But very complicate. Believe me, I am not that sophisticated enough to stage a dog & pony shows. Some companies have never been ready to embrace the open & free market. They can use their "power" and the leverage to try to destroy you. I think I will write an article to let people know the true story when everything calms down. (It's my dream to be a journalist when I was still in school anyway. I don't care it will cause me to end up with the situation that will be very bad for me)


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

I think this thread probably needs an enema. Maybe once an actual Chinese Carbon frame becomes available to the public for individual purchase…somebody can/should start a new thread. This thread is 20 pages of nothing. If I'm missing a frame that actually exists and is for sale, will somebody please start talking about it. Otherwise, folks should just abandon this to the Q2 cycling rep's searing behind the scenes Chinese carbon journalism.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

*Joy Fat Bike Hubs*
















So this is the Joy hubs with 150mm x 15mm, and 190mm x 12mm that I took pictures from their booth at Shanghai Show this week.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

I tried to give some positive rep to Q2 Cycling for keeping us informed. 

Somehow it has come across as negative. Can some more of you give him pos rep to make up for my booboo please?


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## SADDLE TRAMP (Aug 26, 2010)

Velobike said:


> I tried to give some positive rep to Q2 Cycling for keeping us informed.
> 
> Somehow it has come across as negative. Can some more of you give him pos rep to make up for my booboo please?


VB; how do you know this...did you see a green chicklet disappear?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Velobike said:


> I tried to give some positive rep to Q2 Cycling for keeping us informed.
> 
> Somehow it has come across as negative. Can some more of you give him pos rep to make up for my booboo please?


Done


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## SADDLE TRAMP (Aug 26, 2010)

bdundee said:


> Done


Odd...I also...no change with the chicklet count...one would think that VB's mishap would have been 'corrected'.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Maybe VB higher post count took away more than I could add. On a brighter note now this thread is getting more funner


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Thanks guys....


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks for posting the pictures. It does look like they are QR, do you have another picture? I see it says 4in1 but I am just curious about the end caps.



q2cyling said:


> View attachment 885983
> 
> View attachment 885984
> 
> ...


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Sand Rat said:


> VB; how do you know this...did you see a green chicklet disappear?


Yep, his chiclet turned red. I've only used neg rep once or twice a long time ago, and then decided never to use the neg rep again, so this is very embarrassing !


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

shoo said:


> Thanks for posting the pictures. It does look like they are QR, do you have another picture? I see it says 4in1 but I am just curious about the end caps.


Sorry, I didn't take more pictures then. My limited knowledge on the hubs didn't help me realize all the aspects. I guess I will have you guys see more of the hubs when we have the hubs in May.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Novatek 4in1 or 3in1 axle systems use interchangeable end caps and sometimes axle sleeves to convert between all the most common standards. This is pretty typical and is the strategy used by most hub manufacturers.

It makes sense that the quick release model is labeled as 190mm because that is the spacing for quick release. That same 190mm hub body uses different end caps to support 12mm through axles. All hubs I've ever seen use 12mm through axle end caps that add 3.5mm to each side, with the result being 197mm spacing. This is the same as when 135mm quick release rear hubs are converted to through axle 142mm spacing with different end caps.

q2cycling says that these are 190x12mm, which would surprise me. While the hub is indeed 190mm wide, the 12mm TA end caps likely make it 197mm. That is, unless this is the only hub on the planet that is truley 190x12mm. There could be a bit of confusion happening in translation. Yes, the hub bodies can be thought of as 190mm. But that isn't how they are typically described in specifications when using the 12mm through axle end caps.

Perhaps though, if fat bikes were getting so wide in the rear that there was too much heel rub, it could make sense to ditch that extram 3.5mm per side and come up with alignment grooves on the dropouts that don't interfere with the cassette even without the extra width.

Here are some photos of convertible hubs from the same manufacturer:


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

I am not sure if you posted this in response to my question,thanks if so. I was looking for the 190 and 150 end caps. Do you have pictures of them? Do you know what the four standards?



dfiler said:


> Novatek 4in1 or 3in1 axle systems use interchangeable end caps and sometimes axle sleeves to convert between all the most common standards. This is pretty typical and is the strategy used by most hub manufacturers.
> 
> It makes sense that the quick release model is labeled as 190mm because that is the spacing for quick release. That same 190mm hub body uses different end caps to support 12mm through axles. All hubs I've ever seen use 12mm through axle end caps that add 3.5mm to each side, with the result being 197mm spacing. This is the same as when 135mm quick release rear hubs are converted to through axle 142mm spacing with different end caps.
> 
> ...


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

*Joy Fat Bike Hubs*



shoo said:


> I am not sure if you posted this in response to my question,thanks if so. I was looking for the 190 and 150 end caps. Do you have pictures of them? Do you know what the four standards?


I think the catalogue says more.


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Cool, thats a big help. I see the end caps on the front hub, still qr on the rear but I can use my imagination. One of my curiosities was regarding the 4 different styles and this answers it. I was hopeful the front was for 10mm instead of 12mm.

Thanks!



q2cyling said:


> I think the catalogue says more.
> View attachment 886016


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Thanks for the catalog scan. That does seem to confirm that my doubts were unfounded. 

The reason for that doubt are the dimensioned drawings showing a hub body of 183mm with end caps bringing it to 190mm. To me that seems like a miscommunication among designers and manufactures as to how that additional 7mm corresponds to a 190mm hub body. It should be added, not removed from the 190mm dimension. Otherwise the chain line is off and the chain would hit the tire, or the cassette would be too far out and hit the dropout chip or frame.

But like I said, that's just speculation on my part. If someone actually has the frame and hub AND has successfully mounted a drive train, that would prove that there is indeed a properly designed 190x12mm spaced fat bike. That would be a rather ingenious design if successful, providing better heel clearance on the seat and chainstays.

Edit: or another possibility is that there are no alignment tabs, just like how 150x12mm downhill hubs have to be manually held in place while inserting the axle. That was the entire reason for adding 3.5mm per side for the 142mm,177, and 197mm hub standards. It helps align the hub when inserting the axle. Because the dimensioned drawings depicted that 183 and 190mm dimension, that suggests that there are tabs/grooves and hence the doubt or confusion at not having the additional 7mm width.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Q2. Thanks for the hub information.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

You are welcome...
To be honest, I don't quite understand what you guys are talking about. I am learning every word, especially what dfiler said...


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

q2cyling said:


> I think the catalogue says more.
> View attachment 886016


What I am seeing / interpreting from this pic is that the rear is both 10mm and 12mm quick release .
Looking at ends of the axle though they look mighty small for 10mm , yet 9mm is not mentioned for the rear ? 
But also the 12mm x 190mm is repeated underneath which would suggest to me that a 12mm bolt through axle could also be used like a 150mm hub set up as dfiler said .

Thanks for posting q2

At this point I think we really do need a ton of detailed up close photos . Showing a frame with a fitted complete drive train including tyres to be able to answer at least some of the million questions that we no doubt all have regarding what will fit and what won't fit this frame.

Having said all this is the frame back up for sale yet it's been over 24hrs since it was last taken down 

Fat Biker


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

imaging if bike direct started collaborating with these carbon and Ti frame manufacturers. 

its gonna be game over, son


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

im patiently waiting on a deep gloss 12k weave carbon fatty frame with a suspension fork.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

akacoke said:


> imaging if bike direct started collaborating with these carbon and Ti frame manufacturers.
> 
> its gonna be game over, son


Not really, the grass is not always greener... :skep:


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I would be completely insane if I was trying to build one of these, but it seems like you _might_ be able to buy one here, now-ish: Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB02) products- Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB02) factories,manufactures,Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB02) suppliers

Edit just noticed the rear spacing is 170/190, that new adjustable mold thing


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

For frames like that, a key detail that manufacturers will want to include in the future is if there is enough downtube clearance for a Bluto fork. The photos make it look like the knobs on the crown might hit the downtube when the bars are turned 90 degrees. Because it was designed with a 135mm fork spacing, this wouldn't be surprising.

The same website also lists a slightly different version, F-FB01.
Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) products- Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) factories,manufactures,Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) suppliers
This one has a rear spacing of 190/197mm.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

In the mechanical drawings they both show a fork with what appears to be top caps (and they clear the downtube), I wouldn't trust that though.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

To me it looks like a normal 135mm spaced fork in the drawing rather than a fat suspension fork like the bluto. Compare the stanchion thickness to the spacing between the stanchion and steer tube. A bluto has roughly 2 stanchions width between the steer tube and the stanchion. The drawing appears to show a fork with only 1 stanchion width between those. lol, that's not very well worded but hopefully it makes sense.

Frames that fit the bluto seem to have more clearance by having the downtube leave the head tube horizontally and then bending downward after a few inches.

That's just speculation on my part though. The frame could fit a bluto regardless of what the dimensioned drawing depicts.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Yep, I agree and understand what you're saying, its probably not Bluto-compliant - which at this point would make this a non-starter for me (if I was looking to buy one).


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

*Other Fat Boy*

dfiler, maybe the following picture can also say more. I got the catalogue in Shanghai Show. The factory has quite a range of frames, like the 27.5er suspension frame also. Their products seem good in the booth.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Who put the fork on backwards?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

That's even more interesting!

I wonder what kind of fork is in that picture. It isn't a rockshox bluto. It appears to be a manitou (reverse arch) fork, perhaps a maitou tower. The tower is a 29er fork and that would explain why the arch is so far high above the tire. Are there any other brands with a reverse arch design?


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

dfiler said:


> That's even more interesting!
> 
> I wonder what kind of fork is in that picture. It isn't a rockshox bluto. It appears to be a manitou (reverse arch) fork, perhaps a maitou tower. The tower is a 29er fork and that would explain why the arch is so far high above the tire. Are there any other brands with a reverse arch design?


Dt Swiss use a reverse arch design.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

q2cyling said:


> View attachment 888059


Looks just like the Fatback carbon frame.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

On Facebook the Speedercycling person references the Fatback frame directly (even posting a picture of that frame where the Fatback logo is clearly readable). There's definitely a cultural difference here in what is acceptable and what is not. I would have no problem buying a "generic" hardtail or rigid frame, but if its smells of piracy, I have a problem with that. The whole thing is pretty confusing, who owns what and what is "acceptable". 

So glad I bought the Fatboy, which is free of any kind of controversy


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Jisch said:


> On Facebook the Speedercycling person references the Fatback frame directly (even posting a picture of that frame where the Fatback logo is clearly readable). There's definitely a cultural difference here in what is acceptable and what is not. I would have no problem buying a "generic" hardtail or rigid frame, but if its smells of piracy, I have a problem with that. The whole thing is pretty confusing, who owns what and what is "acceptable".
> 
> So glad I bought the Fatboy, which is free of any kind of controversy


I have a question. I used to think American guys use fat boy=fat bike. Now there is also fat back. Is fat back or fat boy some brand's model? Or? I think I may have been using a serious mistake.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The mystery deepens. The speeder cycling facebook page posted a picture of the reverse arch fat fork on the F-FB01 frame. Do people agree that it appears to be an actual fat fork?

This would be news to the cycling world, another fat suspension fork! Hopefully this thread doesn't get deleted like the bluto thread got deleted prior to the rockshox official announcement.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Fatback is a bike manufacturer/seller out of Alaska (FATBACK - Alaska Built All-Terrain Fat Tire Bikes)
Fatboy is a specific bike manufactured by Specialized (Specialized Bicycle Components)

I think there are several generic terms for these types of bikes, but the most common is "Fat Bike" hence the name of the forum.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

(deleted = jisch answered already)


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Jisch said:


> Fatback is a bike manufacturer/seller out of Alaska (FATBACK â€"Â*Alaska Built All-Terrain Fat Tire Bikes)
> Fatboy is a specific bike manufactured by Specialized (Specialized Bicycle Components)
> 
> I think there are several generic terms for these types of bikes, but the most common is "Fat Bike" hence the name of the forum.


Thanks Jisch. I do have been making the mistake...


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

thanks guys for updating this thread. looking at fb01 and 02 frames i do prefer looks of fb02. can somebody explain difference between 190vs197mm? i see all fat bikes sold in us are 197mm? would i get in trouble having 190mm spacing?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I believe 190 vs 197 is simply the "chips" used to convert the frame from through axle to QR.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Yep, all currently available 190mm frames use traditional quick release skewers. The dropout chips can be replaced to support a through-axle instead. For the through axle, 3.5mm tabs are added to each side of the hub to help align the wheel when putting it in the frame. That's where the extra 7mm comes from to make it 197mm. The same is true for fat bikes with 170mm and 177mm rear spacing or normal mountain bikes with 135mm or 142mm rear spacing.

This why I was curious about the frame mentioned earlier in this thread. It is described as 190mm with a 12mm through axle. It would be the first and only frame on the market which uses a through axle but without the extra 7mm.

When a frame is listed as 190mm/197mm. That suggests that you can switch between two different sets of dropout chips, one for QR and the other for TA.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

ok, so 190 is quick release only. how do you replace dropouts?, are they not imbeded in carbon stays? not sure what you mean by chips


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

The chips are fastened to the frame with bolts, if you enlarge the "mystery deepens" picture above and look at the rear drop out on the frame only pic you can see the two bolts that hold the chip in place. I have these on my Niner RIP9 as well - its pretty common with a lot of mountain bikes now (though just starting to show up in fat bikes).


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Jisch said:


> I believe 190 vs 197 is simply the "chips" used to convert the frame from through axle to QR.


Are there conversion "kits" to convert framesets/dropouts from QR to thru-axle? If so, can someone point me in the right direction. I have a non-fatbike (135mm rear) that I would l would like to switch over if this is a possiblity.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

It depends on your bike. If the manufacturer doesn't offer a 142 through axle version of your frame, then its probably not possible. As far as I know those chips are pretty frame dependent, its not like there is a standard for them (though I'm sure there are frames that use similar ones).


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

cavo said:


> ok, so 190 is quick release only. how do you replace dropouts?, are they not imbeded in carbon stays? not sure what you mean by chips


They normally are small pieces of aluminum that screw into the frame with two small screws. Those screws are visible if you look closely at the photos of the F-FB01 frame.

The drive-side dropout chip also typically includes the derailer hanger. Here's a picture of a drive side dropout for a 12mm through axle. You can see the 3.5mm deep alignment slots for the hub to slide into. The threaded hole is for the derailer.

Edit: Jisch was right in pointing out that these are custom to each frame and not all bikes have the options of running either quick release or through axles.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

dfiler said:


> They normally are small pieces of aluminum that screw into the frame with two small screws. Those screws are visible if you look closely at the photos of the F-FB01 frame.
> 
> The drive-side dropout chip also typically includes the derailer hanger. Here's a picture of a drive side dropout for a 12mm through axle. You can see the 3.5mm deep alignment slots for the hub to slide into. The threaded hole is for the derailer.
> 
> ...


I have a 2010 Rockhopper. The rear end has the hanger/dropouts mounted in a similar fashion you are describing.

When I purchased the bike (used) I was told that the frame was convertable from SS to geared. I wonder if they have something to convert to a thru-axle.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The 2010 rockhopper had an eccentric bottom bracket that can be used to tighten the chain when running as a single speed without a rear derailer. The removable chip could be just a replaceable derailer hanger which can be replaced if damaged. I can't find photos to verify. <-- edit (I'm not sure if it has chips on both sides)

The fatbike being discussed here is pictured with a chip on the non-drive side and is listed as 190/197mm rear spacing. That indicates interchangable dropout chips for QR and TA, not just a replaceable derailer hanger.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

dfiler said:


> The 2010 rockhopper had an eccentric bottom bracket that can be used to tighten the chain when running as a single speed without a rear derailer. The removable chip is just a replaceable derailer hanger which can be replaced if damaged.
> 
> The fatbike being discussed here is pictured with a chip on the non-drive side and is listed as 190/197mm rear spacing. That indicates interchangable dropout chips for QR and TA, not just a replaceable derailer hanger.


Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Guess I'll have to wait until I get a new frame/bike for the thru-axle.


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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

This is currently my favorite thread. I am learning a tonne of information. Thanks to everyone who is taking the time to share their knowledge!


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i got email back from speeder cycling. the price for fat frames is $435 (not sure if fork included) and they are 30 days out.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Wow that's cheap! I would guess that price is for the frame only, fork sold separately. That would put the price in line with other carbon frames direct from China.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

brankulo said:


> i got email back from speeder cycling. the price for fat frames is $435 (not sure if fork included) and they are 30 days out.


Wow, that's impressive! thanks for sharing. I suspect they'll sell a lot at that price - once the first person buys and proves the geometry/clearances.


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## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

brankulo said:


> i got email back from speeder cycling. the price for fat frames is $435 (not sure if fork included) and they are 30 days out.


Thanks for sharing. Because I also have the price from the factory. And I now I know how they have the pricing. So the $435 is for the consumer price? Like if you buy just one, they can also offer this kind of pricing? That is so unreal.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

thats what i am thinking, he also confirmed that frames work with bluto.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Let's all remember what's happened with every other carbon frame that's shown up in this thread. Pos rep goes to the first person to show up in this thread with a frame on order and delivery confirmation.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Yeah, no kidding. Let's see a frame in hand.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I asked speeder cycling on facebook about the fat suspension fork with the reverse arch. They replied that it "is ourself design". They should be sending me more details via email soon. Stay tuned!

Although I wonder what they mean by it being their own design. They are also selling 90mm rims that are the same as nextie rims. It's hard to imagine that a carbon factory (or reseller) would be able to design and build a fork. It seems more likely that they are merely selling an OEM design manufactured by another company.


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

bdundee said:


> Looks just like the Fatback carbon frame.


No way. Not even close visually. They may manufacture the frame though as they use the picture. I don't know.


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## TBerntson (Nov 3, 2010)

Logantri said:


> No way. Not even close visually. They may manufacture the frame though as they use the picture. I don't know.


That first picture does look like the Corvus. The second does not.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

q2cyling said:


> So the $435 is for the consumer price? Like if you buy just one, they can also offer this kind of pricing? That is so unreal.


why would it be so unreal? as already mentioned, that price is on par with other Chinese carbon frames.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Jisch said:


> Yeah, no kidding. Let's see a frame in hand.


wish the curvy one was available with 197mm spacing.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

bdundee said:


> Looks just like the Fatback carbon frame.





Logantri said:


> No way. Not even close visually. They may manufacture the frame though as they use the picture. I don't know.


I'm seeing a slight resemblance here, not saying it is it or even the same geo but it does look close. This whole copying thing doesn't sit well with me but of coarse we haven't actually seen one purchased yet either.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

It does look similar. The differences I see are that the fatback has a front derailed mount, rear brake mount on seat stay instead of chain stay, and curved instead of straight seat tube.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Speeder cycling replied that the fat suspension fork is $345 plus shipping and asked how many I wanted. 

Hmmm. Does this seem strange to anyone else? That a fat suspension fork exists but doesn't have a name, is offered for a really low price and only via email? The picture seems to prove that it exists. The mere existence of another fat suspension fork option should be a really big deal to the fat community. Yet there has been no marketing push. 

My best theory is that it is being shopped around to find a distribution partner who would then be able to brand it and do the marketing.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

is anyone even considering a purchase? i have not heard of these guys before, but it is tempting. i asked them for more images


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

brankulo said:


> why would it be so unreal? as already mentioned, that price is on par with other Chinese carbon frames.


Man, Q2cycling is a Chinese seller as well, why he/ she said unreal is they don't sell frames at so low price, they are competitors. Speeder Cycling is a small trade company as well, the fat bike frames designs are not their own, LTK bikes owns the design absolutely, what frames SC sells are almost sold by LTK.

Q2cycling likes a spammer


----------



## q2cyling (Mar 31, 2014)

Bikrider said:


> Man, Q2cycling is a Chinese seller as well, why he/ she said unreal is they don't sell frames at so low price, they are competitors. Speeder Cycling is a small trade company as well, the fat bike frames designs are not their own, LTK bikes owns the design absolutely, what frames SC sells are almost sold by LTK.
> 
> Q2cycling likes a spammer


Bikerider. So sad to see this. I don't know how you draw that kind of conclusion. 
1. The price they sell is really very low. So I just expressed my feeling that their price is so unreal. Because I know the cost and the quantity requirement stuff. 
2. How do you know that we are a seller but not a factory? 
Sometimes you need to look at things as a whole...

It is pointless to argue about those stuff. See, that's what will happen. When a Chinese person trying to get involved in the forums, and people think they are spammer or something....


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## oh2guy (May 20, 2009)

I received the following prices from Speeder:

F-FB01 frame and fork: $529 + $95 shipping to the US
Carbon rimes: $325 + $80 shipping per pair

Combined shipping for a frameset and rims would be $150.

They are still "25-30 days" away from delivery (supposedly). I'm tempted to take a chance on a frame, but I can't find much information on Speeder Cycling, other than their website and Facebook page. I saw a post on another forum by a guy who bought one of their CX frames and he was pleased with the service and quality.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

That's the lowest pricing on carbon fat rims and frameset I've ever seen. In the past i've been quoted really low numbers only to later find out that they had mistakenly given the bulk price. The pricing could be legit and I hope it is. We'll know for sure when someone actually takes delivery at that price.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

here are images i received, not what i have asked for, but at least something larger than whats on the website.

i am still puzzled with FB02 frame and rear spacing and why openings in dropouts are so large diam.


post img


how to do a screen shot


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Wow, a grand for frame, fork and rims, that's impressive if true.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

is $325 really for 2 rims? here is answer i got when i inquired about rim price: "the fat bike rim the price is US$325/pcs"
i also mentioned rim similarity to the one Nextie sell, here is what he replied: "We do not work with Nextie, so i think the rim is not the same model."


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Looks like a 12mm rear axle to me. Do you think the dropout holes look larger than 12mm?


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

The second pic is the frame without the "chips" installed, so the holes are there to accommodate whatever axle you need, the chips reduce it to the proper size (look at the first picture). The first picture appears to show the chips with a 142x12 through axle (my guess).


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i thought this frame uses qr axle. getting confused here


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

There are very definitely chips installed on that frame, which would lead me to believe it is adjustable to either QR or through axle.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

If the second picture is without chips, then it appears to not be standard QR compatible. That would normally mean that the dropouts have an open slot that sits on top of the QR hollow axle. Yet if that picture is of the frame without chips, it appears to require an axle inserted from the side. 

I too am confused.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i am looking at the second one, cant really see on inside of dropout where chips would screw in.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

dfiler said:


> If the second picture is without chips, then it appears to not be standard QR compatible.


Ah I see what you're saying, hmm.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I just noticed those pictures are of two different frames, I know Captain Obvious.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Oh yeah, no chip on the second picture for sure... no derailer hanger mount. My guess is that the frame only accepts 197x12mm. Or perhaps the alleged 190x12mm that was discussed previously.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

the description for that frame says 190mm spacing, the other one is 190/197


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Man, I'm not sure I'd buy one without a lot more clarity about this rear end! Part of me says I would just buy one and figure it out when the frame got here, but I would probably wait for someone else to learn for me.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

haha, exactly. thats why i asked him to email me detail image of just rear dropout but he just emailed overall image. i am more confident on FB01, but i do like looks of 02 better.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks for sharing though, I'm not in the market, but I find it interesting.


----------



## emp? (Sep 8, 2009)

Buy 2014 WHEELER PHOENIX Carbon Snow Beach Sand Fat Mountain Bike| CD - More Products


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

emp? said:


> Buy 2014 WHEELER PHOENIX Carbon Snow Beach Sand Fat Mountain Bike| CD - More Products


Good find . Thanks for the info . Although I am a little concerned that the frame and forks are both 12mm and 15mm bolt through repectively yet the hubs suppiled are listed as M5 QR's ???? 

Fat Biker


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

managed to get different view of fb02 frame, looks like the chips are replacable?
or is it just one side? could that be? or just for hanger?


images hosting


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I was originally going to suggest that they would normally have chips on both sides, but I think you're right, this bike is made for through axle only and there is only a chip on the drive side for the hanger.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

another piece of info on FB02 rear mystery. copied from the email i just received.

"the frame take 12mm thru alex, we can make rear spacing in 190mm (because the frame mold design is 190mm)"

so 12x190 through axle?


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I say just buy a quality aluminum or steel frame and not even take the gamble with this stuff, obviously they don't have a friggen clue to what is going on.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I continue to believe the design is fine, but their "communication" folks just don't know what they are looking at or being told. Of course "I continue to believe" is meaningless as I would not put up the cash unless I knew for sure, which means I don't really believe.


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

the market needs more 190 hubs. we aren't sure if 150 will win the popular vote. to much uncertainty in the fatbike market. good thing we have all year to figure out what they want us to buy.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

kidd said:


> the market needs more 190 hubs. we aren't sure if 150 will win the popular vote. to much uncertainty in the fatbike market. good thing we have all year to figure out what they want us to buy.


150?
Seems like it'll be more 170 vs 190.....170 for trail & 4" & below, 190 for snow & larger than 4"

Edit...oh 150 front you mean?.....yep got it


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

*Carbon Fatty BB Shell 120mm?*

I have not been on the forum for about a year or so..Work and being poor sucks. However, I am now in a position to order a carbon fatty to go with my carbon niner I built a year ago. I am ordering a bike from ICAN the SN01 which comes with a BSA 120mm shell, what crank and BB combo is good? I used to have a Pugs, 2009 addition and I believe that had 100mm shell, and Hausfelt cranks. I am not able to buy all the comp's right now just looking to get some idea of how much I am gonna spend to get it right. (hopefully before I send anybody money)
DB


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

davedivided said:


> I have not been on the forum for about a year or so..Work and being poor sucks. However, I am now in a position to order a carbon fatty to go with my carbon niner I built a year ago. I am ordering a bike from ICAN the SN01 which comes with a BSA 120mm shell, what crank and BB combo is good? I used to have a Pugs, 2009 addition and I believe that had 100mm shell, and Hausfelt cranks. I am not able to buy all the comp's right now just looking to get some idea of how much I am gonna spend to get it right. (hopefully before I send anybody money)
> DB


Link to where you are getting your bike from please!


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I'm guessing it's this one:
Fat bike 2014 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

At least the rear spacing appears to be the normal 190qr/197ta configuration. Not sure if the fork is 135 or 150 spacing though.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

It appears to be this bike: Fat bike 2014 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

although I don't see a price or a way to put it in a shopping cart.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

dfiler said:


> I'm guessing it's this one:
> Fat bike 2014 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> At least the rear spacing appears to be the normal 190qr/197ta configuration. Not sure if the fork is 135 or 150 spacing though.


Thats the one.

I will upload and image later if you would like.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

how much for that frame?


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

480


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

davedivided said:


> Thats the one.
> 
> I will upload and image later if you would like.


Here is the built version of that frame.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Nice. That price seems about right, keep us updated as you go through the build process!


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

davedivided said:


> 480


Sorry, I can't get to the website. Are they selling it with a carbon fork? If yes, what's the combo frame/fork price? How soon can/will your order? Keep us posted.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

that is exactly the same frame that i posted picture of not long ago. it could be also purchased from speeder cycler an xmiplay for the same price. both also offer another fat frame, the one with mysterious 190mmx12mm rear axle. carbon fork with 135 spacing can be had too.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

brankulo said:


> that is exactly the same frame that i posted picture of not long ago. it could be also purchased from speeder cycler an xmiplay for the same price. both also offer another fat frame, the one with mysterious 190mmx12mm rear axle. carbon fork with 135 spacing can be had too.


I am going to Western Union the cash next week. I am getting the 135mm fork. No Sussy fork for me. Colorado Locals can contact me if interested in ordering, as there is pretty decent volume discount and shipping savings. (Is that legal at this forum, I am NOT selling these)


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

So $480 for frame and fork? Anyways, let us know your total out of pocket from them with shipping and all if you don't mind.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Oh... western union. I'm glad you're the guinea pig. I'm too paranoid to wire money to an unheard of company.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

Slow Danger said:


> So $480 for frame and fork? Anyways, let us know your total out of pocket from them with shipping and all if you don't mind.


Fork is another $120. They told me shipping is $95, that seems a little steep. I will have to look up how much they charged me to ship my 9er.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

I have a BB question..Most of these carbon fatties are listing there BB shell width as 120mm. Aren't most BB spindles for fatties sized for 100mm. Or at least with my limited knowledge and research that is what I see. I did not build my Pugs myself but it seems to me the Howitzer was 100mm???


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

davedivided said:


> I have a BB question..Most of these carbon fatties are listing there BB shell width as 120mm. Aren't most BB spindles for fatties sized for 100mm. Or at least with my limited knowledge and research that is what I see. I did not build my Pugs myself but it seems to me the Howitzer was 100mm???


You know you are a Goof when you quote your own post.

So in review of bottom brackets shells, 100mm = rear spacing of 170/190mm, 120mm = rear spacing of 190/197mm. Can someone tell me what these numbers mean in gearing and wheel configuration? My desire is to build a triple and nine rear. 
I am comparing two fat frames from speedercycling.com FB01, and FB02. I thought that I was sure of what I was going to do framewise until I started looking at crank and BB combos and I did see much in the way of 120mm gear.


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## c_klein87 (Apr 28, 2013)

i've emailed hong fu about their frame will be ready soon, which sounds good timing to get other bits together


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

davedivided said:


> You know you are a Goof when you quote your own post.
> 
> So in review of bottom brackets shells, 100mm = rear spacing of 170/190mm, 120mm = rear spacing of 190/197mm. Can someone tell me what these numbers mean in gearing and wheel configuration? My desire is to build a triple and nine rear.
> I am comparing two fat frames from speedercycling.com FB01, and FB02. I thought that I was sure of what I was going to do framewise until I started looking at crank and BB combos and I did see much in the way of 120mm gear.


The Beargrease is also listed as being a 121mm bottom bracket but is a press fit and I believe normal 100mm cranks fit. Kinda makes sense so maybe a 120mm would take the same crank just with internal bearings?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dave, did you manage to get any info from them on max tire clearances? does it come with rear axle? i was told both yes and no.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

bdundee said:


> The Beargrease is also listed as being a 121mm bottom bracket but is a press fit and I believe normal 100mm cranks fit. Kinda makes sense so maybe a 120mm would take the same crank just with internal bearings?


The specs are calling the BB Shell BSA which is threaded.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

i maybe wrong but it looked like a race face crankset in the one pic. so it might be a typo or miscommunication.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

kidd said:


> i maybe wrong but it looked like a race face crankset in the one pic. so it might be a typo or miscommunication.


That would be my guess.


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## calves2997 (Sep 12, 2009)

davedivided said:


> That would be my guess.


I have ordered and received this frame. I am building it up now. 
It is if very good quality, fit and finish is very good.

Mine has a 197 mm rear spacing. Front spacing is 135 with their fork. It indeed has threaded BSA bb, not press fit as they said. This is a big problem because it is 121 mm wide. When you add the cups it becomes over 140 mm wide. All fat cranks commonly available won't fir. Except the long spindle raceface and mwod moon lander cranks.i have managed to fit the raceface using a rotor bb30 adapter and sram bb30 spacers, since the 2x10 mm spacers included will not work since the bb is so wide.
The crank in the picture is made by a Chinese manufacturer, and is not easily obtainable. Here is their website
Chuan Wei Industrial Co., Ltd.


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## TrickyDick (May 25, 2014)

Any other updates on these frames?


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## BigGDog (Oct 15, 2013)

Not to side track the link but I'm wondering if there is any talk about a full suspension carbon fiber frame set from one of these manufactures? I know it's early in the game on the suspension side of fat but I'm as interested in a 197 rear spaced FS as I am a superlight hardtail Carbon fatty.

Yes I know that I'm a sick sick man but I'm having so much fun on my Bigfoot that I'm already looking at the next evolution.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

TrickyDick said:


> Any other updates on these frames?


I am ordering the FB02 from speedercycling.com. I chose this frame cause I didn't want to deal with finding a 120mm BB. Lazy I guess, but also going to run a 9 rear so and use hub that I already own. I will add more when i get my frame in 30 days.

DB


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## TrickyDick (May 25, 2014)

Nice! That is what I am looking to order. Pls update when you receive the frame. Much apperciated.



davedivided said:


> I am ordering the FB02 from speedercycling.com. I chose this frame cause I didn't want to deal with finding a 120mm BB. Lazy I guess, but also going to run a 9 rear so and use hub that I already own. I will add more when i get my frame in 30 days.
> 
> DB


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

TrickyDick said:


> Nice! That is what I am looking to order. Pls update when you receive the frame. Much apperciated.


FB2 was my pick too, but can not quite digest its weird rear spacing (12x190). please post impressions once you get it.


----------



## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

I asked the factory to make the thru axle samples for the IP-010 frame , IP-018 fat carbon frame and FK-018 carbon fat bike fork.

As soon as the frame and forks are available, I will have them to be tested, and then I will ask the factory to make the axles in black color.

The IP-010 in 17'' and IP-018 in 18'' will be available in 20 days

IP-010 is for 190x12 rear, IP-018 is for 192x12 rear, FK-018 is for 135x15

These axles are made in same factory as the axles for 100x15 mountain bicycle fork and 142x12 thru axle frames, they are light and stiff

See the attached pictures of the sample axles, and pictures for FK-052 29er fork with 15mm axle, and IP-057 29er frame with rear 142*12mm axle

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

Cool. I want a 12/190 and a 15/135! What is the turn around on the fabrication time to deliver?

DB


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ok cool, nowdoes anzone know what rear hubs available in US are compatible with 12x190?

peter, when are other ip010 sizes going to be available?

also wandering how calves has already received the frame when its not available yet.


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## calves2997 (Sep 12, 2009)

Here is a pic. Waiting on the carbon wheels.


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## calves2997 (Sep 12, 2009)

This is the finished wheel set. They are waiting on the axles. Should be here next week. I'll post more info including weights and ride report then.


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

calves2997 said:


> This is the finished wheel set. They are waiting on the axles. Should be here next week. I'll post more info including weights and ride report then.


Where did you order your wheels?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

PeterQ520 said:


> View attachment 896124











That looks exactly like my LaMere carbon fatty.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

calves, are you saying that raceface 120mm bb will not fit?


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## ironpo (May 19, 2014)

calves2997 said:


> This is the finished wheel set. They are waiting on the axles. Should be here next week. I'll post more info including weights and ride report then.


What width are those rims?
Cheers
Ip


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Jayem said:


> That looks exactly like my LaMere carbon fatty.


weird, the frame calves received does not seem to have slightly curved top tube.


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## ironpo (May 19, 2014)

Jayem said:


> That looks exactly like my LaMere carbon fatty.


That's what I was thinking when I first saw it 
It's got the lamere look about it
Cheers
Ip


----------



## ironpo (May 19, 2014)

brankulo said:


> weird, the frame calves received does not seem to have slightly curved top tube.


Yes 
It might just be the angle of the pic but calves seems to be a totally different frame or top tube at least
Cheers
Ip


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Yeah, I noticed that, the LaMere has a nice gradual "curve" to it with the top-tube and seat-stays, the picture looks like this, the frame received does not exactly. Probably the same factory at the least.


----------



## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

ironpo said:


> Yes
> It might just be the angle of the pic but calves seems to be a totally different frame or top tube at least


If I am not mistaken, the frame Calves received is from a different factory/seller than the frame Jayem claims looks like the Lamere bike. They look different because they are two different frames from two different places/sellers. Am I wrong about this?

Edit: I see below that I am wrong about this. I got lost in the confusion. Carry on.


----------



## calves2997 (Sep 12, 2009)

No the raceface will fit, but not with their spacers. Need 5mm of spacers on both sides not 10. Also because it uses a bb30 spindle I needed to get a BSA to bb30 cups, from rotor.
Rims are 65mm.
The top tube is not curved, but the pictured frame appears to be larger than mine (18).
It will also fit the bluto fork. I ordered that last week, getting another wheel built with the 150 hub, and will put it on in a bit.


----------



## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

Hi calves - which rims and hubs did you use - I'm looking for a 65mm carbon rim, many thanks!


----------



## ironpo (May 19, 2014)

Futon River Crossing said:


> Hi calves - which rims and hubs did you use - I'm looking for a 65mm carbon rim, many thanks!


This would bE good to know

Also reading back the frame with the curved top tube seems to be a 29er frame
Maybe Peter will chime in and clear this up
Cheers
Ip


----------



## ironpo (May 19, 2014)

davedivided said:


> I am ordering the FB02 from speedercycling.com. I chose this frame cause I didn't want to deal with finding a 120mm BB. Lazy I guess, but also going to run a 9 rear so and use hub that I already own. I will add more when i get my frame in 30 days.
> 
> DB


im interested in this frame also
do you know if the sram XX1 crank will work with this frames BB (100mm)?
cheers
IP


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

calves2997 said:


> It will also fit the bluto fork. I ordered that last week, getting another wheel built with the 150 hub, and will put it on in a bit.


Another option is to get a 150x15mm spaced carbon fork. That would be cheaper than a 2nd front wheel.


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

ironpo said:


> That's what I was thinking when I first saw it
> It's got the lamere look about it
> Cheers
> Ip


FYI folks

If you read Peter's post a little more carefully you'll see that he was using a picture of an ip-256 (a 29'er NOT a fat bike) to illustrate the use of the the new through axles they have .

That is why it looks different


----------



## calves2997 (Sep 12, 2009)

I got the frame and wheels from Full Carbon bike.

The frame and wheel turnaround was 30 days. Once shipped they reached me in california in 3 days!
Rims are 200 per. I paid extra 30 to get them and the frame painted Matt black.
Hubs are the new novatec 190/135 through axle. Total cost for the wheels was just 600. Same as the price of the frame set.

When I ordered it there was no word on the new front hub spacing. May have to look into the 150 spaced carbon fork.


----------



## ironpo (May 19, 2014)

Fat Biker said:


> FYI folks
> 
> If you read Peter's post a little more carefully you'll see that he was using a picture of an ip-256 (a 29'er NOT a fat bike) to illustrate the use of the the new through axles they have .
> 
> That is why it looks different


Yes
That does seem to be the case 
Cheers
Ip


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I think I figured out another hub option for anyone looking at one of these 190x12mm rear spaced frames.

Hope offers a 190mm QR or 197x12mm fatsno hubs. However, because the fatsno hubs now use the standard hope pro 2 evo end caps, 190x12mm is possible. Simply use the 135x12mm end caps on a 190mm shell and bam! 190x12mm.

Or at least it seems good in theory. Is this correct?

Here are some comparison pictures of those caps.

Quick release cap:








x12 cap for 142mm/177mm/197mm








12mm cap for 135mm but should also work for 170mm or 190mm


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dfiler, great, looks like this could work. i was thinking i will be filing down 12x197cups.


----------



## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

Many thanks - I think I will be ordering one of those rims for my Jones


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

brankulo said:


> dfiler, great, looks like this could work. i was thinking i will be filing down 12x197cups.


I'm gonna call it confirmed that hope fatsno evo pro 2 hubs work with 190x12mm frames. This is a relief because such a frame is on its way to me right now and I already had the fatsno hub.

Check out how the 12mm (not x12) caps compare to the QR caps.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dfiler said:


> I'm gonna call it confirmed that hope fatsno evo pro 2 hubs work with 190x12mm frames. This is a relief because such a frame is on its way to me right now and I already had the fatsno hub.
> 
> Check out how the 12mm (not x12) caps compare to the QR caps.


thanks again, have you ordered one of those fb02 frames?


----------



## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

*Speedercycling*

Speeder will be able to deliver these in 60 days compatible with their FB02 frame:







Per their rep via email to me today.


----------



## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

davedivided said:


> Speeder will be able to deliver these in 60 days compatible with their FB02 frame:
> View attachment 897213
> 
> Per their rep via email to me today.


If I read that right column correctly, and the resolution is terrible on my tablet, much of the weight you save on the carbon frame will come back at you in these 790g hubs.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

dfiler said:


> I'm gonna call it confirmed that hope fatsno evo pro 2 hubs work with 190x12mm frames. This is a relief because such a frame is on its way to me right now and I already had the fatsno hub.
> 
> Check out how the 12mm (not x12) caps compare to the QR caps.


what are you using for through axle? are there any available in 12x190?


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

sryanak said:


> If I read that right column correctly, and the resolution is terrible on my tablet, much of the weight you save on the carbon frame will come back at you in these 790g hubs.


Gosh, I've had an idea.

How about they offset the left chainstay a few mm, and then we could use light 135mm hubs.

Amazing no-one has thought of that. It would be a genuine innovation and we would all be grateful for the opportunity to use hubgears too.*

(*I couldn't find a smiley for tongue firmly in cheek  )


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

cavo said:


> what are you using for through axle? are there any available in 12x190?


That's something that could be a hassle. I'm having the supplier ship me the frame even though the axles aren't ready or perhaps sourced yet.

Once it is in hand I can measure the tread pitch and figure out a solution in case the axle never comes through. Worst case scenario is getting a machine shop to shorten an axle intended for use on a 197mm spaced frame.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

PeterQ520 said:


> I asked the factory to make the thru axle samples for the IP-010 frame , IP-018 fat carbon frame and FK-018 carbon fat bike fork.
> 
> As soon as the frame and forks are available, I will have them to be tested, and then I will ask the factory to make the axles in black color.
> 
> ...


Are those frames sold with axles included?

Also, I might need to buy a 190x12mm axle separately. Do you know if the axles will be available for purchase separately?


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm surprised they didn't use standard dimensions for the rear spacing, I was convinced this was a translation issue, not an actual dimension issue! I know there's a lot of confusion around those standards, but certainly there are other through axle frames out there to base this off to ensure buyers can use standard hubs and axles. Having to buy one-off hubs and figure out axles is more than a little ridiculous.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

salted bikes offer their frame with 12x190 spacing, axle included. maybe it is worth to ask them where they source their axle.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

If the threads are right because there is several different ones you could always just add some threads on to one of these. www.paragonmachineworks.com - SH003Shimano197mmx12mmSkewerforFatBike


----------



## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

Does anyone know if the Circus Monkey people make 190mm spacing rear hubs? I have been trolling other threads and seen the name pop up on some 29r threads but none here.
I have seen their hardware up close and it looks really good and is quite light weight as well.
DB


----------



## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

sryanak said:


> If I read that right column correctly, and the resolution is terrible on my tablet, much of the weight you save on the carbon frame will come back at you in these 790g hubs.


Shame, can't be correct!


----------



## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

Well - I've ordered a 65mm wide carbon rim for my Jones, hopefully it will be in the region of 350g lighter than my current rim )


----------



## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Futon River Crossing said:


> Well - I've ordered a 65mm wide carbon rim for my Jones, hopefully it will be in the region of 350g lighter than my current rim )


Let us know how long it takes to arrive. I'm interested in the rims as well. Plus, if anyone gets one in their hands, please post pics.


----------



## calves2997 (Sep 12, 2009)

Slow Danger said:


> Let us know how long it takes to arrive. I'm interested in the rims as well. Plus, if anyone gets one in their hands, please post pics.


Almost finished, just waiting fir the xd1 driver.

Wheels / tires are the easiest to setup tubeless I have ever done. I small rim strip of 2 inch gorilla tape, and that's it. Feels very light, I will have my lbs weigh it once I take it in for final adjustments.


----------



## ironpo (May 19, 2014)

calves2997 said:


> View attachment 898822
> View attachment 898823
> View attachment 898824
> View attachment 898821
> ...


Wow
That looks so cool
Would it be possible for you to list what parts/rims/tyres/frame and bits of pieces you used for the build just to give myself and others an idea of what works with what on our own Chinese build fatty
(it would save having to scroll through the 26 pages of this thread )
Cheers
Ip


----------



## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Looks good, Calves. Thanks for posting.

Edit: Hey, it only took 27 pages to get an actual, in-the-flesh, Chinese Carbon Fatty to show up on mtbr.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

how is rear tire clearance (and front ). 65mmrim with 4" wee tire and it looks tight. it might be the picture angle though. i see they list 5" tire clearance for this frame. you think 5" tire on 80-90mm rim would fit? or at least 4.8" tire?


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

calves2997 said:


> View attachment 898822
> View attachment 898823
> View attachment 898824
> View attachment 898821
> ...


looks good. good to hear that rims work tubeless too. anyone else pulled trigger on one of these frames?


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Love to see the build kit, cost and total weight.


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## ernesto_from_Wisconsin (Jan 12, 2004)

Me gusta!


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Slow Danger said:


> Looks good, Calves. Thanks for posting.
> 
> Edit: Hey, it only took 27 pages to get an actual, in-the-flesh, Chinese Carbon Fatty to show up on mtbr.


You need fatties in the flesh?

Enjoy.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dfiler said:


> You need fatties in the flesh?
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> ...


c'mon, more


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

dfiler said:


> You need fatties in the flesh?
> 
> Enjoy.


Tease. Get back to me when you're ready to give up the goods.


----------



## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

brankulo said:


> c'mon, more


+1 +build list!


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

I have just ordered a speedercycling FB02(Fatback looking) frame and fork. I opted for the 170mm rear with dropouts. I did this drop selection because it seems that there are more inexpensive hub options (CHEAP) than for through axle and 190mm. I also have big feet and was worried about banging my heel on my chainstay or derailleur. I am told that my bike should be shipping in twenty days.

I am looking at the one and only picture I have of the frame, there are several posted in this thread so no need to repeat that, and I am wondering how the heck a person installs a front derailleur on this frame since the location where I would expect to mount a derailleur is radiused?? I guess I will find out soon enough, or not!

I noticed that someone on Ebay is selling fatty wheel sets with rediculously large rim cut outs with 170 mm rear spacing for under $500 for the set?? Has anyone purchased, used, or otherwised beta'd these. Link: Fat Tire Bike 100 mm Black Wheel Set with Cut Outs 170 mm Rear Hub | eBay

Time to go for a ride.:drumroll:

DB


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

that's the extremefattire guy in florida. i emailed about the weight and their supposedly 1200fr and 1400r. i'd like to get a set of the rims next week.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

dfiler said:


> You need fatties in the flesh?
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> ...


thought you were going to get 190 spaced frame. this looks like the other one ?(197mm)


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

kidd said:


> that's the extremefattire guy in florida. i emailed about the weight and their supposedly 1200fr and 1400r. i'd like to get a set of the rims next week.


Caveat emptor: the extreme guy has done or is doing time for fraud. Given that he has onlyva 75% positive rating and only 4 transactions, buy from him at your own risk. I have hundreds of transactions on ebay, buying and selling and a 100% rating. It's pretty hard to get negative feedback unless you're doing something shady. YMMV.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

Gigantic said:


> Caveat emptor: the extreme guy has done or is doing time for fraud. Given that he has onlyva 75% positive rating and only 4 transactions, buy from him at your own risk. I have hundreds of transactions on ebay, buying and selling and a 100% rating. It's pretty hard to get negative feedback unless you're doing something shady. YMMV.


 Ouch! I don't need that kind of risk. I will be glad to buy from someone reliable for a little more. Like Bikewagon or some other big Ebay seller.


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## dokker (Sep 25, 2013)

Hon much these carbon fatty framesets costs?


----------



## mattfa (May 30, 2011)

I am looking at buying a import carbon fatty for riding on sand and just wondering who is reliable to buy off and what should I be looking at. I want a through axle on the back and probably a 15mm on the front and want to run a 1x10 drivetrain. I have read this forum and searched the net and there seems to be a lot of choices and wondering to benefit from your experiences cheers guys


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

interesting, corvus knock off. or is it actual fatback image? 190 rear however.
rest of the images look more like whiteout frame. confusing again


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Interesting indeed. The main photo for that bike looks similar to the corvus. However all the remaining photos and geometry diagrams are of a different, less angular frame that looks closer to a whiteout. That's a good thing because in my opinion the angular frame is ugly. If someone were looking for a cheap carbon fatty, the YS-FM079 (FM079+FK079) would be my recommendation (assuming this refers to the curvy frame). 150mm spaced fork, internal derailer cable routing, nice lines, etc.

More pictures and specs for my build will be posted in the coming weeks. Not quite ready to blow the lid off it yet.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

so which frame did you ended up with?


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## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

My 65mm rim has landed in the Uk - less than a week to get here. No idea how long it will be in customs though


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ok, so to follow up, i have contacted yishunbike about the frame listed on alibaba (the one that looked like corvus on one image and whiteout on another)

here is what i got back from them, saying that it is available now. yes, yet another different frame. i have sent another email back asking for more info.


how to print screen on pc


image upload


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I'll be interested to hear how they got that spokeless wheel design to work, the matching color between the frame and tire looks interesting too. 

What's the rear spacing on that frame?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Jisch said:


> What's the rear spacing on that frame?


doesnt say of course . it was one of the questions i asked. they are terribly slow to answer back, sort of steers me away from dealing with these guys.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Being unresponsive would make me apprehensive to buy from them too. 

The spacing might not be a problem though. For example, I bought hope hubs because they can do 190xQR, 190x12mm and 197x12mm simply by switching end caps.


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## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

My 65mm rim finally arrived! It weighs exactly 540g - so 360g lighter than my Jones rim  quality looks very nice. The only issue I can see, is that the need hook is very, very thin, probably less than 1mm, I have no experience with carbon, but this's looks very vulnerable to a rim strike  now we don't get much snow round here, and there are no rocks about, and I'll probably run 8psi, so I'm hoping there won't be any rim strikers - but it'll always be there in my mind. I can' think I've ever had a rim strike come to think of it, fingers crossed! 

I reckon these'll be snap to setup tubeless, as the tyre fits snugly to the rim.

It'll be a couple of weeks before I get it built up, and I've got an injury, so it'll be even longer before I get to ride it, but I'll let you guys know when I do.


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## calves2997 (Sep 12, 2009)

I have finished mine up! Couldn't get a working xd1 driver so it's setup with xt 1x10 with a wolf tooth 40 rear. Weighs 25 pounds, and is a blast to ride!
Rims are very easy to setup tubeless, and much lighter and stronger than my single walled rd or mls.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

Iplay IP-018 carbon fat bike frame in 18'' with BSA and FK-018 carbon fat bike fork in UD matt are available in stock now

2014 carbon fat bike frame IP-018 and FK-018 fat bike fork-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

IP-018 is for 197x12 only
FK-018 is for 135x15

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520

Here are some pictures for reference:


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

calves2997 said:


> I have finished mine up! Couldn't get a working xd1 driver so it's setup with xt 1x10 with a wolf tooth 40 rear. Weighs 25 pounds, and is a blast to ride!
> Rims are very easy to setup tubeless, and much lighter and stronger than my single walled rd or mls.


where's the pics? 28 pages and 1 mystical fatty has been built


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

That looks great Peter. Do you have pricing for the frame/fork complete? Do the thru axles come with the frame and can you supply hubs to suit this frame and fork?
Thanks


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

shanesbw said:


> That looks great Peter. Do you have pricing for the frame/fork complete? Do the thru axles come with the frame and can you supply hubs to suit this frame and fork?
> Thanks


Thanks Shanesbw, you have to separately order the frameset and thru axles, because some guys may not choose our axles when they order the frameset. Now we are producing the thru axles in black color and more suitable for the frame and fork, you know, color and suitable lengths, suitable thread.

What thru axles you saw from the pictures are samples only, new thru axles will be available in 10 days.

Please feel free to contact me if you had any question

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

When will the 16'' frame be available?

Chris.


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## calves2997 (Sep 12, 2009)

Sorry for the quality of the pics. Bike is dirty from riding. Steerer will be cut once I figure out the fit.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

krzysiekmz said:


> When will the 16'' frame be available?
> 
> Chris.


Size 16'' will be available in 35 days


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Looks awesome. IDK if these question have been asked already, but:

Will it accommodate 29+ and Bluto fork? What about 5" rear tire? Price for frame only? 

Thanks!


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The build is getting closer! Still missing a few key parts though.

Thoughts so far... Race face next sl cranks are amazing. 35mm clamp easton haven stem, also amazing. This fattie is getting ridiculous.


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

dfiler said:


> The build is getting closer! Still missing a few key parts though.
> 
> Thoughts so far... Race face next sl cranks are amazing. 35mm clamp easton haven stem, also amazing. This fattie is getting ridiculous.
> 
> View attachment 902551


My pants just got a lot tighter.

I probably missed it but what frame are you using? Rims? Looks amazing!


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Looks amazing dfiler and I too wish to know from whence it came  Please?


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

I just love the drill bit through axle dfiler!


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

calves2997 said:


> Sorry for the quality of the pics. Bike is dirty from riding. Steerer will be cut once I figure out the fit.
> View attachment 902363


cool, thanks!


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

dfiler that looks to be an awesome build and i too like the rock bit thru axle


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Thanks everyone. The frame I have isn't available yet and the details are murky but I will share info when possible.

The matte carbon makes this thing look like a stealth aircraft. Yet instead of stealth, this thing is quite conspicuous. Once covered in mud it ought to be a little less eye catching. As it stands right now, it's going to get more attention than a puppy in the park. 

Tonight I plan on trying tubeless with the nextie rims. Or at least the rear, still need a front hub. Word is that qbp has hope 150mm hubs so I'll have to stop by a shop and get one on order. I'll also be building up a less fat wheelset with perhaps 65mm rims and 3" or 4" slick tires of some sort. 

My current trail bike is a single speed canfield nimble9 with a pretty ridiculous build and I'm completely in love with it. So I'm curious if this rig will take over completely or if I'll find myself alternating between them on a regular basis. 

This will be my first carbon frame. After running light bicycle carbon rims for a few years on that nimble9, I've concluded that I will never buy metal rims again. I've also developed an addiction for carbon bars. Steel frames have always felt good to me so I'm also curious if this carbon frame will cause me to never buy metal frames again. Granted, stiff rims are great but a bit of frame flex can be a good thing at times.

Edit: oh yeah, this is my first bike with internal cable routing. I've seen some frames that fit a small sleeve through the internal routing section. This one appears to only fit the cable. What is the proper way to prep or is there any prep needed for running the rear derailer cable? The cable slides through the frame easily but it doesn't seem like rubbing on carbon is optimal.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

How would you run hydraulic rear brakes?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dfiler said:


> View attachment 902551


this is what i needed to see. ordering one too.


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## Robg68 (Oct 27, 2013)

davedivided said:


> How would you run hydraulic rear brakes?


He has the caliper mounted. You have to blow up the pic to see it.

My current bike--2014 Trek Fuel EX 8 29er.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

dfiler said:


> The build is getting closer! Still missing a few key parts though.
> 
> Thoughts so far... Race face next sl cranks are amazing. 35mm clamp easton haven stem, also amazing. This fattie is getting ridiculous.


Sick looking whip difiler!!


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

some detail images of fb02 frame


image


free image hosting


img host


upload image online

more info for "corvus" frame

image hosting 30 mb


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

*Axles!*

My axles are finally here! 190x12mm and 150x15mm.

I've never had a bike with through axles like these. Instead, all my through axles had previously screwed into threads on the drive side dropout in the rear and fork leg in the front. These axles include round nuts with a bit of knurling for better finger grip. It's one more thing to not lose if fixing a flat trailside. It also means that the quick release lever is attached to a relatively thin rod, about the size of a normal QR skewer rod. It would seem better to not rely on something so thin in diameter. But perhaps it is superior in some other way. Or perhaps it doesn't matter.

Thoughts?

It appears that many of the other cheap carbon frames are relying on a similar setup so these may become quite common. Or are they already?


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Interesting, I have used thru axels with nuts in an open dropout but not a closed dropout. How many threads are engaged on the front nut? It does not look like very many but maybe it is picture angle. 

Cheers!


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Ah, good distinction about open and closed dropouts. A nutted through axle in an open dropout is no hassle because the nut is never removed entirely. With closed dropouts like on this bike, the nut must be removed prior to sliding the axle out. 

You are correct that the axles don't go all the way through the nuts. They thread in the length of the thicker diameter part of he nut but not the thin part with the knurling. It seems strange but really it is a lot of threaded material. It is more than on a QR skewer or even the axle system on my downhill bike.

Edit: If there is anything to worry about with this design, it is the thin skewer to which the QR lever attaches. If that snaps from over tightening, the axle could theoretically slide out.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

So where did you get these again! I know I saw a post about this somewhere. I am trying to find a 170 rear and a 135 front.


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Do they offer these frames with open drop outs? Same question about the fork.

After I looked closer at the photos and I see what you mean about the amount of threads, it looks like it engages all the way to the shoulder on the nut.

The QR lever does look like it could be the week link, having lost a wheel at very high speed because of a broken skewer I do get a little nervous. Back in the nineties American Classic skewers used a small c clip to hold the handle on and mine was pulled off by grass or broke and it allowed the skewer to fail on a very high speed section of the Mount Snow Downhill course. I was very lucky and not hurt very much.

Looks like you will be up and riding soon, looking forward to a ride report.

Cheers,
Steven



dfiler said:


> Ah, good distinction about open and closed dropouts. A nutted through axle in an open dropout is no hassle because the nut is never removed entirely. With closed dropouts like on this bike, the nut must be removed prior to sliding the axle out.
> 
> You are correct that the axles don't go all the way through the nuts. They thread in the length of the thicker diameter part of he nut but not the thin part with the knurling. It seems strange but really it is a lot of threaded material. It is more than on a QR skewer or even the axle system on my downhill bike.
> 
> Edit: If there is anything to worry about with this design, it is the thin skewer to which the QR lever attaches. If that snaps from over tightening, the axle could theoretically slide out.


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

shoo said:


> Do they offer these frames with open drop outs? Same question about the fork.
> 
> After I looked closer at the photos and I see what you mean about the amount of threads, it looks like it engages all the way to the shoulder on the nut.
> Cheers,
> Steven


Wait a second. On a thru axle the lever is simply a handle that allows you to tighten or loosen the axle. It does not provide any clamping force to keep the wheel attached to the bike. If the handle snaps off or opens something would have to unscrew the bolt from the nut to make it dangerous.

Go look at some of the weight weenie thru axles, they don't even have a handle.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I have a 177mm x 12mm thru axle with alternator dropouts on the rear of my Mukluk. At first glance it looks like this axle. But when you actually use what looks like a knurled nut on one side is actually fixed to the dropout, it is still there after the axle is removed. And the other side is just a handle used to turn the axle to unscrew it, it doesn't move or have any cam action.

This axle just looks like a poor copy of how a thru axle should work, with some dubious technology adapted from a quick release.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> Wait a second. On a thru axle the lever is simply a handle that allows you to tighten or loosen the axle. It does not provide any clamping force to keep the wheel attached to the bike. If the handle snaps off or opens something would have to unscrew the bolt from the nut to make it dangerous.
> 
> Go look at some of the weight weenie thru axles, they don't even have a handle.


Not on these through axles. If the small skewer breaks, it allows the cap on the lever end to come off. When that happens, it leaves only the axle. That cap is spring loaded and moves when the lever is actuated.

I'll attempt to disassemble and photograph.


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## TLundberg (Sep 5, 2013)

Where did you get the axles from dfiler? Need to order a set for my carbonfatty build..


----------



## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

The above thru axle's appear to be large diameter QR's The handle has a cam just like a QR and it has a small steel rod going into the large diameter aluminum shaft. It looks under built even by weight weenie standards.



Adroit Rider said:


> Wait a second. On a thru axle the lever is simply a handle that allows you to tighten or loosen the axle. It does not provide any clamping force to keep the wheel attached to the bike. If the handle snaps off or opens something would have to unscrew the bolt from the nut to make it dangerous.
> 
> Go look at some of the weight weenie thru axles, they don't even have a handle.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The axles came with the frame, which is normally how it's done. They're 190x12 and 150x15 so they won't fit most other frames and forks.

I decided not to disassemble the through axles. A set screw in the cam tightens onto the threaded end of the small skewer and removing it would mean trying to unscrew past the marred threads. But there's good news though. It seems that the spring loaded cap (which the QR lever presses against) must be held in place by an internal shoulder on the axle. With the QR lever held away from the cap, the cap still can't be pulled off. That means it wouldn't come off even if the skewer were to break. Now noticing that it is made of two parts (one black, one silver), this make sense. The black piece must slide on from the bolt end of the axle while the silver piece slides on from the QR side.

Even if that wasn't the case, failure seems unlikely because unlike a traditional QR axle system, it doesn't need to be tightened with nearly as much force. While the small diameter is a sub-optimal design, it is extremely unlikely to fail and failure wouldn't mean axle detachment.

My apologies for the momentary excitement over a bad axle system.  Hopefully the discussion is entertaining though. That's why I come to these forums at least.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

TLundberg said:


> Where did you get the axles from dfiler? Need to order a set for my carbonfatty build..


if those came with frame,it is most likely from Q2 cycling, as if i remember correctly, they were going to offer whiteout like looking frame that dfiler has. you might want to check with them.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The frame I have is not available anymore. Although it probably will be eventually through another distribution channel.

If all else fails, perhaps a 197x12mm paragon machine works axle might work.
www.paragonmachineworks.com - SH003Shimano197mmx12mmSkewerforFatBike


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## TLundberg (Sep 5, 2013)

dfiler said:


> If all else fails, perhaps a 197x12mm paragon machine works axle might work.
> www.paragonmachineworks.com - SH003Shimano197mmx12mmSkewerforFatBike


Thanks, I have a F-FB02 frame on order and it's 12x190 at the rear but a 197m axle might work.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

TLundberg said:


> Thanks, I have a F-FB02 frame on order and it's 12x190 at the rear but a 197m axle might work.


so have I. you can contact Peter from xmiplay about axles, he should have them available soon.

btw, dfilers frame is still available through q2, they just wouldnt ship to us, but would ship to any other country. was considering this option as i will need to travel to europe this summer, however the price of frame set (~$900), shipping to europe ($150) and all the hassle associated with bringing it back to us made me decide against it. I played some game of words with q2 person over skype and i am quite positive that at some point, you would be able to get their frame from framed bikes. in form of complete bike that is.


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

You could order from ICAN I don't know which frame it is, but they have been happy to ship to the US.

Fat bike 2014 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

nbwallace said:


> You could order from ICAN I don't know which frame it is, but they have been happy to ship to the US.
> 
> Fat bike 2014 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


nb, he is referring to one specific frame (whiteout like design). the frame you linked can be purchased from several websites, ships to US no problem


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

Ok. I've seen that frame and it's prettier for sure.

I also noticed that the ETT for the Chinese frame on ICAN's site seems pretty short. The 20" compares to my Large Tallboy, which compares to my 17.5" Fisher Paragon.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

i pulled the trigger on f-fb02 frame to,painted in matt white


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Which site did you order from?



mortenste said:


> i pulled the trigger on f-fb02 frame to,painted in matt white


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The drivetrain is mounted but I ran into a problem. The chain on the 11 tooth cassette ring is really close to the derailer hanger. The rub is slight and the gear is still technically usable. However I'll figure out a way to space them apart about few more millimeters.

I might get the 197x12mm end caps for the rear hub instead of the 190x12mm caps i'm using now. Then space the brake rotor outboard to make up that 3.5mm.

But at least a Lou on 90mm rims fits the chain line with a good amount of clearance.


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

use one 197 end cap or fit a washer in somewhere.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

kidd said:


> use one 197 end cap or fit a washer in somewhere.


I might do that and dish the wheel to compensate. Problem is that spacing the rear to 197 makes the axle too short. It'll probably require just the drive side 197 cap ground down to 1.5mm extra rather than 3.5mm then some judicial dremeling of the derailer hanger should make it perfect.

This probably isn't representative of most chinese fatties. Once they sell in higher volume, this kind of thing gets worked out.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i had to do some grinding to fit front derailleur on top brand bike once, was told it was stacking tolerances problem . whatever. not a big deal i guess


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

neons97 said:


> Which site did you order from?


Speedercycling.com


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## towag (Mar 30, 2012)

hi Peter, is this a 26" or 29" Frame?


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## Arran (Jan 27, 2006)

Hey All. I've looked extensively (Alibaba etc) and trawled through this thread (& others) but haven't been able to find what I'm after. I wonder if anyone can help? What I want in a carbon fatty frameset is:

* ~600TT
* Geo based on a ~ 470mm fork for Bluto compatibility
* 100mm BSA BB
* 450mm (or shorter) chainstays
* 70 degree head angle
* 12 x 190 or 197 rear spacing
* 15 x 150 fork spacing

It looks to me like you can get a frame with short chainstays but a 68 degree (walking pace) head angle OR something with a decent 'trail-bike' head angle (70 degrees) but long (468mm) chainstays. Very frustrating. Also, what's with these bloody 120mm BSA BB's??? Help!


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

For me, 68 head angle is for a trail bike while 70 is more old school or light xc oriented. Short chainstays tend to be paired with slack head angles because that's a good match for aggressive/playful riding.

My bike has a 100mm BB and uses 10mm collars between the cranks and bearing cups. A 120mm BB frame would do away with those spacers and use a longer internal sleeve. The axle length is unchanged. It actually makes more sense for 190mm spaced frames but is admittedly more rare right now.

I agree, the choices are limited and I too couldn't get the exact ego I wanted. I would have preferred shorter chainstays. But for now the choice for me was to ride the best compromise or not ride a fatbike.


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## towag (Mar 30, 2012)

hi Peter, is this a 26" or 29" Frame?



PeterQ520 said:


> Iplay IP-018 carbon fat bike frame in 18'' with BSA and FK-018 carbon fat bike fork in UD matt are available in stock now
> 
> 2014 carbon fat bike frame IP-018 and FK-018 fat bike fork-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
> 
> ...


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

^this


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

has anyone received F-FB02 frame from speedercycling yet?


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## MuruCycles (Sep 5, 2012)

Just a thought, the 470mm axle to crown isn't going to help a lot with Bluto compatibility...

Rockshox drawings indicate axle to crown suggestions of:

511mm for 100MM
and
491mm for 80MM

Worth noting.

Mr Muru


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

MuruCycles said:


> Just a thought, the 470mm axle to crown isn't going to help a lot with Bluto compatibility...
> 
> Rockshox drawings indicate axle to crown suggestions of:
> 
> ...


Don't forget sag, most recommend 25% which puts the 80mm at about 471mm.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

bdundee said:


> Don't forget sag, most recommend 25% which puts the 80mm at about 471mm.


Yep, I agree. Sounds about right for the 80mm model.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

towag said:


> hi Peter, is this a 26" or 29" Frame?


IP-018 and IP-010 are both 26'' frame, no 29'' fat bike frame is available at present.

Now we have IP-018'' in 18'' with 120mm BSA BB and 197x12 rear available in stock, size 16'' will be available in 30 days.

And IP-010 with 100mm BSA BB and 190x12 rear is available in stock as well, size 19'' will be available in 35 days.

Carbon fat bike frameset,Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

now that i have fb02 frame on order, would be interesting to see what build is everyone planing for this frame. i am also asking as i am quite confused with bb and crank options/compatibility . i want to run 1x10 but more i read more i get confused.


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

It seems Xmiplay's fat bike rims in good quality, tested well at least






Peter, your company did a great job, I should build up a fat bike too in the near future


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## Fat-nor (Oct 1, 2013)

mortenste said:


> i pulled the trigger on f-fb02 frame to,painted in matt white


Whats the cost of the fb02 frame?


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Fat-nor said:


> Whats the cost of the fb02 frame?


i paid 529$ for frame and fork+shipping,and 35$ for the painting.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

my build so far:
f-fb02 frame on order
nextie rims on their way to my house

gonna go 1x10 as well


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

Regarding the F-FB02 frame from speedcycling--anyone have it yet, and if so, what is the real story on hub spacing (12x170/12x177). Also, front fork/hub--is it spaced for rear hub disc or front?

In short--what hubs are you using?


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

don't have it yet,but spacing is 135/15


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ordered mine with 12x 190 rear, fork is 15x135


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Mean ass mother effin stealth monster fighter truck

Tomorrow is the inaugural ride. Damn I can't wait to ride it.


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## wrightwoodfilms (Oct 22, 2012)

dfiler said:


> Mean ass mother effin stealth monster fighter truck
> 
> Tomorrow is the inaugural ride. Damn I can't wait to ride it.
> 
> View attachment 906989


That is freaking awesome what was the price tag on the frame?


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

Dear god that is a sweet looking bike.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

you sir, did build a mean ass mutha. absolutely beautiful


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Price tag? Buaah hah hah haaaaa.

Seriously, i have no idea. It took months to find, buy, and get everything delivered.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Very nice dfiler, looks great ! What's the weight?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Sorry, no idea on the weight either. Maybe that's an excuse to buy a scale. It'll be two pounds lighter when tubeless if that means anything.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

What are running for brakes? I am curious as how you run the hoses if you are using hydraulics. I have the same frame on order and have a set of Magura Marta SLs I want to used.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Those are a somewhat rare OEM model of formulas brakes. I think they're a combination of One calipers and RX levers. Brand should not matter at all in terms of mounting.

The internal routing is only for derailer cables along the top tube. The rear brake line is external so that hydraulics aren't a pain. If not using a front derailer, that internal routing could probably be used for a dropper post.

Some other frames might provide internal rear brake routing though. Normally they make the holes big enough for the banjo fitting that attaches to the brake caliper. When this is the case, there is some type of cap/housing guide where the line passes through the frame. The pivot carbon phoenix is an example of that: Pivot Carbon Phoenix - 33.8 Pound DH Race Bike - Sea Otter 2014 - Pinkbike


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

Thanks man. I am growing impatient with waiting for Sarah at Speedercycling to tell me that my frame has shipped. Lets remain in touch.

db


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Very nice dfiler ! Looks awesome.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Love it, well done sir!!


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

davedivided said:


> Thanks man. I am growing impatient with waiting for Sarah at Speedercycling to tell me that my frame has shipped. Lets remain in touch.
> 
> db


No problem. Note that this is a different frame than what you've ordered.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

looks great, this is how i want to do mine, all in matte UD. hopefully it looks this good with corvus frame from speeder too. for now this is my desktop image 
if you dont mind.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

brankulo said:


> looks great, this is how i want to do mine, all in matte UD. hopefully it looks this good with corvus frame from speeder too. for now this is my desktop image
> if you dont mind.


how long lead time did they tell you?i have ordered the same frame as you.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

mortenste said:


> how long lead time did they tell you?i have ordered the same frame as you.


around 35 days depending on factory schedule, is what i was told.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

brankulo said:


> around 35 days depending on factory schedule, is what i was told.


ok same as me,35-40 days.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

mortenste said:


> ok same as me,35-40 days.


Speedercycling told me today that the 17" f-fb02 is in stock and would ship tomorrow if paid today. Are you guys waiting for the 19" frame?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

What axles are you guys using with the speeder cycling fb02? No one has a 190x12 through axle available anywhere... Xmiplay has some prototype pictures, but not available yet. Do you plan on buying frame from speedercycling then buying axles from xmiplay when they eventually become available? 

Also, are compatible 135x15 axles available for the front from anywhere as well?


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

neons97 said:


> What axles are you guys using with the speeder cycling fb02? No one has a 190x12 through axle available anywhere... Xmiplay has some prototype pictures, but not available yet. Do you plan on buying frame from speedercycling then buying axles from xmiplay when they eventually become available?
> 
> Also, are compatible 135x15 axles available for the front from anywhere as well?


I just got the tracking number for my FB02 from Sarah at Speeder. She also informed me that on new orders frames will be coming with axles. I bought my axles from Xmiplay.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

neons97 said:


> Speedercycling told me today that the 17" f-fb02 is in stock and would ship tomorrow if paid today. Are you guys waiting for the 19" frame?


 i am waiting for 17,maybe because i gonna have it painted it take longer time.


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

I emailed Speedercycing last evening about if axles were included (for 12x170) and was told no, they felt they come with the hubs.

Let us know when you receive your frame.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I think these manufacturers are starting to figure out that through axles aren't standardized and that buyers really want them bundled with the frame. That is something I negotiated before ordering. I wasn't going to order a bike without knowing axles where available.

Speaking of axles... I rode the fattie last night and almost lost the axle nut. Apparently I should have put the quick release stupid tight to prevent it coming loose. It was mostly un-threaded and luckily a fellow rider pointed it out when we stopped. Otherwise the nut would have fallen off after just a few more minutes of riding. Chances are it would have been lost and finding a replacement would take forever. Whew. That was close.


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

Nope--ordered 17inch and was told 30 or so days.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

orind said:


> I emailed Speedercycing last evening about if axles were included (for 12x170) and was told no, they felt they come with the hubs.
> 
> Let us know when you receive your frame.


Hopefully you communicated that he is mistaken.

No hubs come with through axles. Never. Never ever ever.
(right?)


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

orind said:


> Nope--ordered 17inch and was told 30 or so days.


when i was ordering i was told 17" in UD matte are readily available. but i needed 19"


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Speedercycling also told me they thought hubs come with the axles. I corrected them. They contacted their hub partner and can now get axles, but not in stock yet. I told them "no axles, no sale".


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

eBay now has one seller selling 190x12, 197x12 and 135x15 through axles.

There is also a very odd novatec branded 145x15 axle on eBay as well. Not sure what application that is for. Too long for 135x15. And not long enough for 150x15. And too thick and long for 142x12 (rear).


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

I cannot see the benefit in having a thru axle with a nut on it. You may as well be running a q/r skewer if the nut is lost that easily.

Threaded frame boss is the only way to go with a thru axle imo.
Seems silly to have to tighten the q/r system you have stupidly tight.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Just talk to Justin att speeder,the axl dont follow the frame.but my frame Will be shipped next week :-D


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I too would prefer a threaded dropout rather than a nut. But the benefit of through axle stiffness is still there. That's the primary reason for through axles.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I like the threaded nut as long as it is held in place with something. Oh and there is no comparison between a qr and a thru axle no matter the fastening system used.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

As soon as I get my hands on the axles that I bought from Xmiplay I am going to turn some myself. I am thinking about having one side( a hex bolt head) with a threaded nut, knurled, or hex cap screw on the other side. I see no need to rely on a quick release, I generally am in no need of hurry when I want my wheel off, for a repair or other. Enjoy the scenery while you fix a flat.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The purpose of the quick release, other than being quick, is to make wheel removal not require any tools. Not saying you should want quick release, but that's the reasoning. 

I simply failed to put it on tight enough while building the bike. Going forward it should work flawlessly. 

Does anyone know the link to the axles being sold on ebay?


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

mortenste said:


> Just talk to Justin att speeder,the axl dont follow the frame.but my frame Will be shipped next week :-D


Can you explain what you mean "Axle does not follow the frame"--Are you saying it does not thread into the frame (requiring external nut) or it is not included with the frame?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

So with these quick-release-style through axles (i.e. not threading into a frame insert like a Syntace X-12 system), I'm getting a little concerned.

1.) Are the ends of the QR serrated like a typical QR?
2.) Will the serrations cause any short or long term issues when directly tightened up against carbon "drop-outs" (even though its a through axle, these are effectively fully enclosed drop-outs)


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

dfiler said:


> The purpose of the quick release, other than being quick, is to make wheel removal not require any tools. Not saying you should want quick release, but that's the reasoning.
> 
> I simply failed to put it on tight enough while building the bike. Going forward it should work flawlessly.
> 
> Does anyone know the link to the axles being sold on ebay?


Here are the eBay links to the axles:
15x135: 2014 NEW Fatbike Axle Thru Front Quick Release 15x135mm Fork HUB FOR PW M74 | eBay
12x190: 2014 NEW Fatbike Axle Thru Snow Bike Dune Buggy HUB Rear Quick Release 12x190mm | eBay

They also have a 12x197 that I am not "watching"

They also have 135x15 and 190x12 hubs in black/red for $169 USD for the set. Claimed weight of 556g for the pair.
NEW Fatbike HUB FOR Shimano XX1 Freehub 190x12mm Axle Thru 32 Holes Powerway M74 | eBay


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

orind said:


> Can you explain what you mean "Axle does not follow the frame"--Are you saying it does not thread into the frame (requiring external nut) or it is not included with the frame?


Yes. And Yes. External threaded nut. And not included with the frame from SpeederCycling (for now...until they get some in from supplier in Taiwan, which will be "a while" according to my recent conversation with a representative there in the past 72 hrs)


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

Just wanted to say thank you for all the help. I am building up an FB02 for my wife, 17 inch frame 170 rear. Just ordered up the through axles (front and rear), and Sarma hubs. I am going to do Nextie rims in pink.


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## OFFcourse (Aug 11, 2011)

Has anyone come across a frame with a 170mm rear, 100mm BSA BB that doesn't have the corvus like curved top tube?


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

orind said:


> Just wanted to say thank you for all the help. I am building up an FB02 for my wife, 17 inch frame 170 rear. Just ordered up the through axles (front and rear), and Sarma hubs. I am going to do Nextie rims in pink.


Did you receive the frame yet?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

just out of curiosity i checked with Sarah from speeder on thru axles. she responded that my frame will be coming with axle. will see.


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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

safety wire everything! wait, this isn't moto.. ;-)
awesome fat bikes fellas and ladies..


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

brankulo said:


> just out of curiosity i checked with Sarah from speeder on thru axles. she responded that my frame will be coming with axle. will see.


Good for you she said she was going to start doing that!


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Anybody know what headset to use with fb02 frame from speeder?


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

My FB02 arrived today, looks very nice.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

how much are these for frame and fork?


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

joeduda said:


> how much are these for frame and fork?


529$ for the fb02 frame and fork


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

Wow, that's a deal, I'm assuming another 4 hundred or so for the right hubs and axles? thanks for the quick response, I got my eye on the borealis deal that was posted and weighing my options.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

joe, $529 is what i payed too. there is also shipping charge from china and paypall fee, so total i payed $649 i believe. axles are included as i was told. fatsno hubs can be had for $300 if you get a deal. otherwise $400 seems about right.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

I was told no axl,was shipped last night.Just have to wait and see


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

mortenste, i would not bet my arm on the axle, if it doesnt come no big deal. hopefully next frame is mine


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

It will be interesting to see if the ebay axles work on all these frames. Axles are different lengths depending on dropout thickness. As long as an alxe is sufficiently long and is threaded far enough down the axle, it would work with most frames. 

However a frame with unusually thin or dropouts might not work with an axle that has a short threaded area. Similarly, a frame with exceptionally thick dropouts might not work with a short axle. Note, this is referring to the thickness of the frame dropout, not the spacing between the dropouts.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

Here is the response I got from Justin on the axles

"Yes we offer the thru axles to match the carbon fat bike frames."

Has anybody ordered the carbon rims with the frame or has everybody gone the light bicycle route for the rims? I would order the FB01 to get the larger 20" frame but i wish they had a 21". I'm 6-2 and am afraid the 20 may be a bit small. 

The frame, fork and set of rims is 1309 shipped. its a deal for sure, its like getting a free set of carbon rims vs the Borealis deal. That is as long as the quality is there.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

joeduda hope you have right,because 4 days ago justin told me they don't follow the frame.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

I saw that, and if you look at his answer it is not a direct answer, he says they "offer" them and then quoted me the total price. I sent another email. thanks.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

I ordered a headset with my frame. Any tapered headset (For Carbon frame) should work.


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

The FB02 frame shipped came to $650. I ordered a 12x170 and corresponding front axle from ebay seller (another $44) and Sarma Hubs--12x170, 15x135--$300.

I will likely go with Nextie rims ($650), but I have also thought about marge light rims ($320)--plus all the other stuff.

The Marge lights weigh about the same as the Nextie--of course 65mm vs 90 mm, but my wife rides groomed trails only with 4" Dillingers (streets get a bit icy).
I have not decided how much I will pilfer from my wife's pugsley to move over to her new build vs. selling the puglsey and using the funds to offset the build.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

dfiler said:


> Mean ass mother effin stealth monster fighter truck
> 
> Tomorrow is the inaugural ride. Damn I can't wait to ride it.
> 
> View attachment 906989


dfiler, I might have missed it, but how does it ride? I bought my motobecane after chatting with you and seems I am following you once again. Have a ltk008 frame coming in 2 weeks.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Have you guys measured the rear spacing on the various frames? 190mm or 197mm on these?

Most running Novatec rear hubs?


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

Asked Justin about the axles again 

"Yes we offer the thru axles to match the carbon fat bike frames." 

Still not a direct answer, it may be a language thing, I don't know. 

I just bit the bullet on the Borealis Yampa Frame, Fork, and Hubs. I figure it is at a $300 premium to go that route over the FB01. But I liked the fact that it has the right hubs and axles with it plus it uses the 100mm bottom bracket so I can use the Race Face crank I already have. Now I have to decide which carbon rims to buy? Last things I need are cassette, rear derailleur, chain, and shifters. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i think the email i got from Justin today confirms they can supply axles. Based on email from Sarah from couple days ago, stating that my frame is coming with axles, i am assuming that the frames from now on come with axles. i dont think the axles and hubs are problem anymore, but it is coming from somebody who has not received the frame yet. waiting on report from Dave and others who have the frame already .


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Brankulo, did you order the 170 frame or 190 mm?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

190mm, now thinking i will go with sarma hubs instead of fatsnos, as they come in 12x190 option. 120 POA sounds good too.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

joeduda said:


> Asked Justin about the axles again
> 
> "Yes we offer the thru axles to match the carbon fat bike frames."
> 
> ...


How do you figure only a $300 premium? $545 for frame/fork/axles. (Fb02 quote I got from speedercycling). And $370 for borealis fh1 hubset. That's $915. I thought the yampa deal was $1499. That's $584 or 64% premium over the open mould frame.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

what was delivery charge on yampa deal?


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

I didn't break out the calculator but lets see. My total with the for the FB01 frame, fork, and two carbon rims was $1362. this is without hubs and maybe with axles. My total for the Borealis with hubs and axles but no carbon rims was $ 1549. The FB01 would need hubs at around $400 so that would be $ 1762. The Borealis will need rims so say $600 so that would be $ 2149. So I guess its closer to 400 than 300. 

The real decision maker was the size of the frame, I was afraid that the 20" FB01 would be too small. And I wanted the 100mm bottom bracket. The xl borealis should be perfect. I hope at least.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

Delivery was $50


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

joeduda said:


> I didn't break out the calculator but lets see. My total with the for the FB01 frame, fork, and two carbon rims was $1362. this is without hubs and maybe with axles. My total for the Borealis with hubs and axles but no carbon rims was $ 1549. The FB01 would need hubs at around $400 so that would be $ 1762. The Borealis will need rims so say $600 so that would be $ 2149. So I guess its closer to 400 than 300.
> 
> The real decision maker was the size of the frame, I was afraid that the 20" FB01 would be too small. And I wanted the 100mm bottom bracket. The xl borealis should be perfect. I hope at least.


Interesting. The quote I got for fb02/fork/axles/2 carbon nextie style rims from speeder before shipping was $1135. That's $230 less than what you were quoted.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

Yes but was that with the shipping and paypal fees?

Edit, I just saw that was without the shipping. Plus they add paypal fee.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

my overall for f-fb02+fork+axles (assuming)+shipping+paypal, nexite rims+ shipping+paypal: $1,294, with sarma hubs $349, or fatsnos $306, so total of $1,600 (with fatsnos) 
vs 
yampa deal $1,549+nextie rims $645 for total of $2,149.
still think that yampa is very decent deal.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

joeduda said:


> Yes but was that with the shipping and paypal fees?
> 
> Edit, I just saw that was without the shipping. Plus they add paypal fee.


I was able to negotiate only $50 for shipping to Canada. But they never mentioned anything about Paypal fees. In any case, I decided to get the Motobecane Night Train. Spec-for-spec, it is about $700-$800 less than building up an FB02. The Carbon frame/fork wasn't worth that premium to me vs. the Fatboy frame/fork copy.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

Now we have IP-018 in 18'' with BSA in UD matt, IP-010 in 17'' with BSA in UD matt in stock, and fitting axles are available as well.

Same price as Speedercycling's offer

Carbon fat bike frameset,Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

IP-018 in 16'' with BSA in UD matt will be available in 10 days, and IP-010 in 19'' will be available in 20 days.

Please feel free to contact me

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Peter: are the frames that you guys sell (with TA rear) 190mm or 197mm?

Seems to be a lot of confusion in the bike biz regarding that right now, and it will be a mess with both 190mm and 197mm TA12 hubs and frames on the market, with mass producers like Novatec making 190mm TA hubs and smaller makers like Hope selling 197mm TA12.

197mm is the logical O.L.D. for TA, as it follows up on 142mm TA vs 135 QR and 177mm TA vs. 170mm QR, so the 190mm TA is the result of someone making a mistake due to the 190mm width on 190mm QR.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

espen, the frames he sells are the same as ones speedercycling sells. one is 177and 197, other one is 170 and 190 spaced. there are hub options available for both, so not a big deal.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Espen W said:


> Peter: are the frames that you guys sell (with TA rear) 190mm or 197mm?
> 
> Seems to be a lot of confusion in the bike biz regarding that right now, and it will be a mess with both 190mm and 197mm TA12 hubs and frames on the market, with mass producers like Novatec making 190mm TA hubs and smaller makers like Hope selling 197mm TA12.
> 
> 197mm is the logical O.L.D. for TA, as it follows up on 142mm TA vs 135 QR and 177mm TA vs. 170mm QR, so the 190mm TA is the result of someone making a mistake due to the 190mm width on 190mm QR.


There certainly is confusion. What is interesting to confirm is if the 197mm rear frames are actually 197mm spacing or 190mm spacing with end caps recessed into the frame to make 197mm (i.e. 142 / 177 standards). Based on the picture of the axles that Peter posted, it appears 197mm rear frames are actually 197mm spacing. Not 190mm spacing +7mm hub/frame interface. Making a frame actually 197mm spacing would be the mistake as the 197mm hubs would still free-float between the dropouts and not index like the 142/177 standards. But it may give significantly more clearance for 11sp cassettes.

Don't forget that before 135QR/142TA were widely adopted, there was actually a 135TA used by DH guys. Similar to the 190TA on these frames. It was just a bit of a PITA to install the wheel as the hub free-floated between the dropouts and you had to have it aligned, then put the axle through. 142 solved that by indexing the hub end caps to a 3.5mm cut-out on each side of the drop-outs. So the frame spacing of 135mm never changed on 142mm frames. Only the "chips" that manufacturers started using to make the drop-outs interchangeable with the different axle standards. Any given frame with these chips in theory could use 135QR, 135TA and 142TA with the right dropout chips if the manufacturer made them available. And the exact same hub could be used in all three scenarios if the hub manufacturer made replaceable end caps with the right length/diameter.


----------



## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

I actually have a few sample frames from various suppliers here, and they are approx 187mm spacing, with approx. 1.5mm index for the axle on each side, so 190mm total.

Having both 190mm TA12 and 197mm TA12 is just an invitation to a lot of frustration. Stuff will get mixed up, people will damage frames, either from forcing a 197 into a 190 frame, or compressing the stays of a 197 frame in order to clamp a 190 hub.

I'm riding a 190 TA12 frame right now, and it works fine, but there is chain rub on the droputs when in the 10t cog (as others have observed too). This would not have been the case with a 197 spacing.

Pretty amazing that companies that only make hubs manage to screw up things like this, but I'm not surprised at all, unfortunately. Not the first time that those of us in the biz who have to know a decent amount about every single component on the bike (and that means the range of components used on $30 to $10.0000 bikes need to assist those who should be specialized in their narrow field (like makers of hubs, rims, forks, etc.)


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I agree with you Espen, there should not be 190 and 197. I suppose it can be dealt with, but with a little forethought it wouldn't be an issue at all.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

if you look on detail images of dropouts nether 197 spaced nor 190 spaced frame seem to have replaceable chips, just replaceable hanger on drive side. both of them however have slits so the wheel can sit in them while installing axle.


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Espen W said:


> I actually have a few sample frames from various suppliers here, and they are approx 187mm spacing, with approx. 1.5mm index for the axle on each side, so 190mm total.
> 
> Having both 190mm TA12 and 197mm TA12 is just an invitation to a lot of frustration. Stuff will get mixed up, people will damage frames, either from forcing a 197 into a 190 frame, or compressing the stays of a 197 frame in order to clamp a 190 hub.
> 
> ...


I'm guessing the problem is actually the frame manufacturers, not the hub guys. They just make what the frame guys ask. And its just end caps for them to produce.

To make a 190mm frame with actual 187mm spacing and 1.5mm index is so far from the established 135QR/142TA standard. That's like making a 135mm TA frame as a 132mm frame with 1.5mm index. There is no wonder that 11sp cassettes rub on the dropout. 197hub with 190mm frame spacing and 3.5mm index on each dropout SHOULD be the TA standard...to align with 135/142 and 170/177.

If 190mm TA was actually 190mm spacing, but hub free-floated between drop-outs, that would be OKAY (not ideal) as you wouldn't get cassete clearance issues. It would at least align with 135TA (but mostly phased out long ago).

These conversations are enough for me to hold off buying one of these Chinese Carbon Frames for at least another year until the manufacturers get these minor (but significant) issues ironed out.


----------



## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Yes, both the 190TA ones that we have here have slits, only approx 1.5mm on each side, though.
Fact remains that they offer less clearance than our own aluminium 190QR frame that I rode all winter.
I think 190 TA12 will be rather short lived, but the (pretty much) biggest hub manufacturer in the world, went 190TA, so who knows.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

the slits are actually 3.5mm if you look on the drawing. but yeah, who knows whats next, as there are quite a few of bikes out or soon to be out with this weird 190 spacing. i guess with these first generation fat chiners you have to accept the fact that you are their free tester


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

I just remesured the slits on the latest version of the frame, and they are 1mm wide.
Spacing from machined surface to machined surface is 190mm, while distance from inside dropout to inside dropout is 188mm, so a very narrow slit.
Makes inserting the axle a little tricky.
This frame is from a very reputable manufacturer (they make the 907 frame, etc), so them messing up 190 vs 197 seems odd.
Makes me wonder if anyone has actually measured a ''197'' to actually be 197, or if they just expect it to be 197/call it a 197 out of through axle habit.

I suggest that those who have received their frames make the same measurements.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

well if slits are shallower than what attached drawing suggests, it helps a bit with the clearances i assume.


free upload image


----------



## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Yes, more clearance, but makes the wheel wobble more when inserting the TA.

On the first sample that we got, the cassette would not spin and the rear caliper would hit the rotor due to frame interference on both sides.
Pretty strange when all one does is to make frames, and this is not just a random Chinese workshop, it is one of the major carbon frame manufacturers, making OE frames for plenty of major brands within MTB and road (and fat, of course).


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

espen, what frame are you measuring, if its not a secret?


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

brankulo said:


> espen, what frame are you measuring, if its not a secret?


The name of the factory is secret, but the frame itself should be very similar to the one depicted a few pages ago, so would be interesting to know the true, measured rear spacing of that one.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

the one dfiler has?


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

brankulo said:


> the one dfiler has?


Yep


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Espen W said:


> Yes, more clearance, but makes the wheel wobble more when inserting the TA.
> 
> On the first sample that we got, the cassette would not spin and the rear caliper would hit the rotor due to frame interference on both sides.
> Pretty strange when all one does is to make frames, and this is not just a random Chinese workshop, it is one of the major carbon frame manufacturers, making OE frames for plenty of major brands within MTB and road (and fat, of course).


I'm glad I'm not the only one scratching my head on these 190/197 sizes.
I have money down on 2 yet to be releases fatties....one claims 197 and one 190.
Who knows what they will actually be.
Was going to build an extra set of wheels with some Nextie rims. I was going to go with Borealis hubs because of the different end caps.( I wanted Hope...but I don't see the availability of different end caps....or am I missing that?)
But I might just wait to see what the frames actually turn out to be.


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

the mayor said:


> Was going to build an extra set of wheels with some Nextie rims. I was going to go with Borealis hubs because of the different end caps.( I wanted Hope...but I don't see the availability of different end caps....or am I missing that?)


 I think the end caps from Hopes "standard" hubs are what folks are using to convert the Fatsno as a workaround .
It's not official (but seems to work for some) AFAIK so this maybe why you can't find any info .

Fat Biker


----------



## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

My FB02 came with confirmed(By me) 190mm spacing.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

davedivided said:


> My FB02 came with confirmed(By me) 190mm spacing.


did the thru axles Come with the frame?


----------



## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

dfiler said:


> Mean ass mother effin stealth monster fighter truck
> 
> Tomorrow is the inaugural ride. Damn I can't wait to ride it.
> 
> View attachment 906989


What size frame is this? I want to use the same seat post if the geo works out for my FB02


----------



## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

mortenste said:


> did the thru axles Come with the frame?


I did not get through axles with mine. I was pre-thru axle support. I bought mine from Xmiplay.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Fat Biker said:


> I think the end caps from Hopes "standard" hubs are what folks are using to convert the Fatsno as a workaround .
> It's not official (but seems to work for some) AFAIK so this maybe why you can't find any info .


That's what I did. Detail and photos are posted earlier in this thread. The end caps are identical across hope's entire line of hubs so a 150x12 or 135x12 pair of caps makes a 190 hub body into 190x12.

But if I had to do it over again, I'd get a hub with more engagement points. 48poe is not enough for my tastes.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

fatsno is 40poe. my old hope hubs are only 20 something, i dont complain, of course i dont know how higher poe ones ride. for this fat build i am thinking sarma 120poe


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

dfiler said:


> That's what I did. Detail and photos are posted earlier in this thread. The end caps are identical across hope's entire line of hubs so a 150x12 or 135x12 pair of caps makes a 190 hub body into 190x12.
> 
> But if I had to do it over again, I'd get a hub with more engagement points. 48poe is not enough for my tastes.


Thanks for the info on the 190 conversion.
But that leaves nothing for 197.....or am I missing that too?


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Thanks for the info on the 190 conversion.
> But that leaves nothing for 197.....or am I missing that too?


You can just buy the hope 197x12mm fatsno hub.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

my frame arrived today 






then i can start building,but haven't decided what wheels to buy yet.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

mortenste said:


> my frame arrived today
> View attachment 909622
> then i can start building,but haven't decided what wheels to buy yet.


impressions?


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

it seems to be good quality,think its better to tell when i get the first ride .


----------



## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Looks good!
Corvus style.

Can you measure the rear spacing?


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

takk  thanks,this is the 170mm rear frame and measured to 170mm


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

mortenste said:


> takk  thanks,this is the 170mm rear frame and measured to 170mm


So that's 170mm inside dropout-to-dropout. So there are no "slots" in the drop-outs to index/locate the rear hub? Exactly like a 135x12 or 150x12 frame would be (i.e. rear hub floats completely within the dropout).

What seller is this frame from?


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

there are slots,and is 170 mm between inside slots.the frame is from speeder cycling.


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## ironpo (May 19, 2014)

mortenste said:


> there are slots,and is 170 mm between inside slots.the frame is from speeder cycling.


So the hubs would need to be exactly 170mm , is that right?
Hope so as that's what I'm after

Also what is the front fork spacing measurement
Cheers
Ip


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Front is 135 mm.


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## ironpo (May 19, 2014)

Thanks
Cheers
Ip


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Alrighty, that means that we have yet another fatbike rear spacing standard on our hands:

135mm QR (offset frames)
170mm QR
190mm QR
170mm TA12
177mm TA12
190mm TA12
197mm TA 12

What a mess.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I actually like that "mess". It seems like a nice set of options.

There are 3 hub body widths; 135, 170 and 190. Cheap, interchangeable end caps provide all the options. This allows people or companies to build exactly the bike they want. I hope all three sizes remain in production.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

dfiler said:


> I actually like that "mess". It seems like a nice set of options.
> 
> There are 3 hub body widths; 135, 170 and 190. Cheap, interchangeable end caps provide all the options. This allows people or companies to build exactly the bike they want. I hope all three sizes remain in production.


While there may be three hubshell standards emerging, there appears to be 167, 170, 177, 187, 190 and 197 rear frame spacing.

The fact that some of these Chinese carbon frames are notching out the 170/190 frames with 1.5mm notches on each dropout means that they are actually 3mm narrower than one would expect, which is what is causing some to have cassette clearance issues.

170 and 190 should not have any notches in the dropouts. These hubs should float between dropouts. If notching them out, the frame spacing should still be 190, but with 3.5mm notches on each dropout for total of 197.

What seems to be happening is these chinese frame makers are getting it wrong by making their 190 frames actually 187 spacing + two 1.5mm notches. These should be marketed as 187 spacing and not 190. They are confusing axle length with frame spacing.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

neons97 said:


> While there may be three hubshell standards emerging, there appears to be 167, 170, 177, 187, 190 and 197 rear frame spacing.
> 
> The fact that some of these Chinese carbon frames are notching out the 170/190 frames with 1.5mm notches on each dropout means that they are actually 3mm narrower than one would expect, which is what is causing some to have cassette clearance issues.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I feared would happen and seems to be coming about . Also the convertible hubs needed to accommodate these "new standards" seem to be at the upper end of the price spectrum (I'm thinking Hope Fatsno) compared to the fixed spacing unknown brand hubs that have recently become available .

I was hoping to get sorted out with a carbon fat bike ready for this coming winter . But I think I'll sit back a season till something emerges as a more dominant standard at least .

This is turning out to be a most confusing sh*tstorm 

Fat Biker


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

neons97 said:


> While there may be three hubshell standards emerging, there appears to be 167, 170, 177, 187, 190 and 197 rear frame spacing.
> 
> The fact that some of these Chinese carbon frames are notching out the 170/190 frames with 1.5mm notches on each dropout means that they are actually 3mm narrower than one would expect, which is what is causing some to have cassette clearance issues.
> 
> ...


No need to explain. I'm the guy who brought the issue to light and explained it repeatedly on this thread as well as to the first manufacurer to announce such a frame. I am even riding a 190x12 frame.

My take is that it wasn't by accident and that the frames will work just fine after a couple issues are worked out. More established companies handle that process internally but the factory direct offerings are relying on early adopter customers who are willing to be guinea pigs. Some customers like that development model while others won't touch it.

Because the end caps are so cheap and easy, if the design works, increasing heel clearance by 7mm seems like a great thing. Note that I say if. The 1.5mm insets on my dropouts aren't sufficient to actually align the hub because the spacing is a hair more than 190mm. If that was spot on the design would be fine. That and the derailer hanger was a bit wide. 2 minutes of dremeling fixed that and there are now no clearance issues. This is a normal part of the design process, albeit one that is normally hidden from customers.

If 190x12 and 170x12 end up being bad, my take is that it will be because it doesn't work, not because there are too many designs for manufacturers and customers to handle. Early on it seemed like sourcing a compatible hub would be difficult, but a couple months later, it turns out that some UD matte carbon head tube spacers were more expensive and more difficult to find than those end caps.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Fat Biker said:


> This is exactly what I feared would happen and seems to be coming about . Also the convertible hubs needed to accommodate these "new standards" seem to be at the upper end of the price spectrum (I'm thinking Hope Fatsno) compared to the fixed spacing unknown brand hubs that have recently become available .
> 
> I was hoping to get sorted out with a carbon fat bike ready for this coming winter . But I think I'll sit back a season till something emerges as a more dominant standard at least .
> 
> This is turning out to be a most confusing sh*tstorm


I can see the verdict eventually being that the design provides too little clearance to avoid issues in some riding scenarios.

But is it really that confusing? Either a frame needs a 170x12, 177x12, 190x12 or 197x12 hub. Buying a seatpost and clamp is exactly that confusing as well. Same with headsets. I had a harder time confirming headset specs than hub specs. And bottom brackets and crank sets as too...


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> I can see the verdict eventually being that the design provides too little clearance to avoid issues in some riding scenarios.
> 
> But is it really that confusing? Either a frame needs a 170x12, 177x12, 190x12 or 197x12 hub. Buying a seatpost and clamp is exactly that confusing as well. Same with headsets. I had a harder time confirming headset specs than hub specs. And bottom brackets and crank sets as too...


Yeah I see what you're saying. 
Guess I'm just p*ssed that you can't just say "yeah I'd like a fat bike rear hub please" and the reply being "ok what colour, what company or price point"
But then when has the cycling industry ever been like that ?

All I can say is I'm glad and grateful to the early adopters such as your self for ironing out the kinks.

P.S. Great looking bike you've got BTW 

Fat Biker


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

dfiler said:


> I can see the verdict eventually being that the design provides too little clearance to avoid issues in some riding scenarios.
> 
> But is it really that confusing? Either a frame needs a 170x12, 177x12, 190x12 or 197x12 hub. Buying a seatpost and clamp is exactly that confusing as well. Same with headsets. I had a harder time confirming headset specs than hub specs. And bottom brackets and crank sets as too...


Yes...headsets are confusing....but a headset will stay with the bike.
Wheelsets on the other hand....if you have 2 different bikes....or you buy a new bike that may have different spacing....is where the problem may be.
I think I'm going to go with a Borealis rear hub because they seem to have the different end caps ( unless I'm missing some other manufacturers)


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Sarma is another option with all the possible interchangeable caps. If I were doing it over again, I'd get Sarma instead of Hope because 120 points of engagement is preferable to 40. I've been riding a True Precision Stealth (instant engagement roller bearing clutch) hub for so long that I forgot what a low engagement count feels like.

I suspect that most manufacturers will offer all the different caps soon.


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

I just received my 170 rear, 135 Sarma hubs this week--just need to decide on some rims now to build up wheels.


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## KingOfTheHills (Mar 4, 2011)

fyi that wasnt walmart selling them might want to read your own links...


----------



## SRock24 (Mar 10, 2012)

davedivided said:


> My FB02 arrived today, looks very nice.


do ya have some pics? How does it ride? Craftsmanship? I've been reading the thread and the more opinions, the better. I'm debating hard if I should pull the trigger...

thanks!


----------



## KingOfTheHills (Mar 4, 2011)

Logantri said:


> You're saying everything I wanted to say. Nice job.
> 
> My other somewhat similar pet peeve is the "need" of riders to do there shopping online, but are then quickly head into the LBS when it is time to ask for schwag for a race, sponsorship, race support, etc (or see the product up close so they know what to order). Seen it first hand many times.
> 
> It is amazing how many people will justify compromising their principles to save some money.


easton havox stem 40 on amazon or 100 at the lbs... HMMM btw im starting to remember why i stopped coming to these forums.


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## OFFcourse (Aug 11, 2011)

Who's doing a 170mm rear without the Corvus curve top tube?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Anyone know where I can get a 150x15 carbon front fork? 

My plan: Purchase a Motobecane Lurch, strip it down to frame/fork/post (and sell those parts), then use all the parts to put onto a Chinese Carbon frame. That will provide me with a decently spec'd ready-to-ride carbon fatty for about $1500 after selling off the Lurch frame/fork. But the Lurch comes with a 150mm front hub, so that won't work on the current 135mm forks coming with these frames.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

is getting bluto an option?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

brankulo said:


> is getting bluto an option?


Not my ideal plan as it would take my overall cost to about $2k vs. $1,500. I plan to do at least 50% of the mileage on this bike in the snow, so not sure I need/want a Bluto. If I go bluto route, I would just get the Motobecane Night Train Bullet for $1,500 with a bluto and forego carbon frame for the extra $500. However, I would rather trade off the bluto for carbon for the same price. I know I'm over-complicating things...just wanted to know if anyone knows of a 150x15 carbon fork available yet (I know there was a prototype in thread earlier, but none I have actually seen available for sale).


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i think dfilers fork is 150mm spaced. you might want to contact q2 cycling if they will be willing to sell you fork. i know they will not sell you frame if you are in us, but you might be able to talk them into selling fork only. if you are outside of usa, should not be a problem.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

brankulo said:


> i think dfilers fork is 150mm spaced. you might want to contact q2 cycling if they will be willing to sell you fork. i know they will not sell you frame if you are in us, but you might be able to talk them into selling fork only. if you are outside of usa, should not be a problem.


I'm in Canada. I saw the 150x15 fork in their "news" section, but not anywhere available for sale. I'll try contacting them.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Salsa's new Blackborow has an alloy 150mm front fork. It seems like they sell all of their forks separately. You say that you want carbon, but it is still a good sign that 150mm forks are going to be available.


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Lurch is not a thru axle rear , if that is what you are looking for. The Stugis does, and appears to have an aluminum fork, which is probably light . I'm speculating on the alum fork.
Motobecane frames bring in very little resale. Ride as is until what you are looking for becomes available


Pedaling


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

rjedoaks said:


> Lurch is not a thru axle rear , if that is what you are looking for. The Stugis does, and appears to have an aluminum fork, which is probably light . I'm speculating on the alum fork.
> Motobecane frames bring in very little resale. Ride as is until what you are looking for becomes available
> 
> Pedaling


The lurch isn't a thru axle rear, but both hubs are thru-axle ready by removing the QR endcaps.

Hoping the MB fat bike frames will bring a little more than the generic 26/29/700C frames (i.e. hoping to get $250-$350 for the frame/fork) as there is very little competition in market, especially at that end of the spectrum. also, Sturgis/NightTrain aren't available till late Oct. Lurch is available late August. But we're getting off topic in this thread.

Really, question is whether or not a carbon 150x15 fork is available anywhere. I've contacted Q2.


----------



## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

*Ebay NoName Hubs Play Nicely with FB02 Frame and Xmiplay Axles*














This is Speeder Cycling 190mm rear with Peter's Axles. Fit and finish on all parts is beautiful.:thumbsup:


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

what is that shaving of, carbon or metal?


----------



## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

Does anybody have a 17" IP-010 / FB02 with a Bluto fork yet? Does the fork clear the down tube?


----------



## SRock24 (Mar 10, 2012)

trevorrr said:


> Does anybody have a 17" IP-010 / FB02 with a Bluto fork yet? Does the fork clear the down tube?


Second this question. Also looking at doing this setup.


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

neons97 said:


> The lurch isn't a thru axle rear, but both hubs are thru-axle ready by removing the QR endcaps.
> 
> Hoping the MB fat bike frames will bring a little more than the generic 26/29/700C frames (i.e. hoping to get $250-$350 for the frame/fork) as there is very little competition in market, especially at that end of the spectrum. also, Sturgis/NightTrain aren't available till late Oct. Lurch is available late August. But we're getting off topic in this thread.
> 
> Really, question is whether or not a carbon 150x15 fork is available anywhere. I've contacted Q2.


Got a reply from Q2...no shipping of their frame and fork to any North American address. Presumably due to exclusive rights. Really highlights the gouging in the industry. Their posted price is $615 usd for frame/fork/headset without volume discounts. Whichever brand reselling this in N.A. is taking it in as I haven't seems frame fork combo retail for less than about $2500 (other than the yampa deal going around)


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

mortenste said:


> my frame arrived today
> View attachment 909622
> then i can start building,but haven't decided what wheels to buy yet.


Nice.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

davedivided said:


> View attachment 910740
> View attachment 910741
> 
> This is Speeder Cycling 190mm rear with Peter's Axles. Fit and finish on all parts is beautiful.:thumbsup:


how many points of engagement?


----------



## christianr (Jul 21, 2014)

davedivided said:


> This is Speeder Cycling 190mm rear with Peter's Axles. Fit and finish on all parts is beautiful.:thumbsup:


Where did you get this hubs? Unable to find them on Ebay.
Thanks!


----------



## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

neons97 said:


> Got a reply from Q2...no shipping of their frame and fork to any North American address. Presumably due to exclusive rights. Really highlights the gouging in the industry. Their posted price is $615 usd for frame/fork/headset without volume discounts. Whichever brand reselling this in N.A. is taking it in as I haven't seems frame fork combo retail for less than about $2500 (other than the yampa deal going around)


Mail & Package Forwarding from Germany, Europe | Mailboxde.com

Downside is that you'll have to pay VAT


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

neons97 said:


> Got a reply from Q2...no shipping of their frame and fork to any North American address. Presumably due to exclusive rights. Really highlights the gouging in the industry. Their posted price is $615 usd for frame/fork/headset without volume discounts. Whichever brand reselling this in N.A. is taking it in as I haven't seems frame fork combo retail for less than about $2500 (other than the yampa deal going around)


interesting, they just told me $899 frame+fork.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

davedivided said:


> View attachment 910740
> View attachment 910741
> 
> This is Speeder Cycling 190mm rear with Peter's Axles. Fit and finish on all parts is beautiful.:thumbsup:


dave, whats the quality of these hubs? do they look pretty decent. how many poe? i am on budget and these would fit the bill, just dont want to be re-lacing wheels after couple rides. is there any info on hub sizes so i can plug it in spoke calc.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Think i need some red hubs too


----------



## christianr (Jul 21, 2014)

cavo said:


> interesting, they just told me $899 frame+fork.


Me too...sounds strange 615$...


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

mortenste said:


> Think i need some red hubs too
> View attachment 911375


No get red rims.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

That to


----------



## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

cavo said:


> dave, whats the quality of these hubs? do they look pretty decent. how many poe? i am on budget and these would fit the bill, just dont want to be re-lacing wheels after couple rides. is there any info on hub sizes so i can plug it in spoke calc.


These were listed on Ebay. I do not know the POE. They look and feel very good. I suspect that the manufacturer is the machine shop for an OEM or two? I would like to compare them next to the Fatsno's.


----------



## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

What brakes are you installing? I am trying to figure out how to run my Magura tubes on mine.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Magura mt8,but changing the hose to red


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

mortenste said:


> Magura mt8,but changing the hose to red


I have Marta SL's but am puzzling over the routing. How are you accomplishing this??


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Screw off the routing cap in one end,and then take the hose true the hole.


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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on the Xmiplay IP-010 frame with 170 thru axle. I"m riding an aluminum Fatback with Hed Big Deal rims laced to Paul front hub and Hope EvoII rear hub (170mm). I can't convert my Paul whub to 15qr so I'd use my O'beast carbon fork (straight 1 1/8"). I believe I can convert my rear hub to 170 x 12 using the Hope HUB241 conversion caps. I would need a headset that adapts my straight steerer to tapered steerer. So my questions are:
1. Is this a sound plan, everything would be compatible as outlined?
2. How good is this frame? I realize all carbon is not created equal depending on fibers and layup. How would this frame compare to a Lamere/Whiteout/Borealis (at a fraction of the price)? Any real world experience with this yet? 

Thanks.


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

campykid said:


> 2. How good is this frame? I realize all carbon is not created equal depending on fibers and layup. How would this frame compare to a Lamere/Whiteout/Borealis (at a fraction of the price)? Any real world experience with this yet?
> 
> Thanks.


I don't believe any of the frames mentioned are high modulus carbon, likely t700. The product is new and all one can hope for is similar results as the Chinese 29er and road product.


----------



## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

campykid said:


> I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on the Xmiplay IP-010 frame with 170 thru axle. I"m riding an aluminum Fatback with Hed Big Deal rims laced to Paul front hub and Hope EvoII rear hub (170mm). I can't convert my Paul whub to 15qr so I'd use my O'beast carbon fork (straight 1 1/8"). I believe I can convert my rear hub to 170 x 12 using the Hope HUB241 conversion caps. I would need a headset that adapts my straight steerer to tapered steerer. So my questions are:
> 1. Is this a sound plan, everything would be compatible as outlined?
> 2. How good is this frame? I realize all carbon is not created equal depending on fibers and layup. How would this frame compare to a Lamere/Whiteout/Borealis (at a fraction of the price)? Any real world experience with this yet?
> 
> Thanks.


I am also likely to get this frame (IP-010 170mm TA, 17") and would like to hear feedback, although I suspect there is none to be had at this point.

I can't say for sure, but I suspect that the HUB241 kit will convert your 170mmQR hub to 177x12TA since their normal function is to convert a 135QR to 142x12TA. Anybody else know for sure? I'd love to get the hope fatsnow hubs for this build, but I don't think there is an off the shelf endcap option for 170x12TA. I think the options at this point are Sarma (which I don't want because they seem to sell the hubs as a set, and I want a 150mm front for the Bluto), or various China direct / eBay China options.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

trevorrr said:


> I am also likely to get this frame (IP-010 170mm TA, 17") and would like to hear feedback, although I suspect there is none to be had at this point.
> 
> I can't say for sure, but I suspect that the HUB241 kit will convert your 170mmQR hub to 177x12TA since their normal function is to convert a 135QR to 142x12TA. Anybody else know for sure? I'd love to get the hope fatsnow hubs for this build, but I don't think there is an off the shelf endcap option for 170x12TA. I think the options at this point are Sarma (which I don't want because they seem to sell the hubs as a set, and I want a 150mm front for the Bluto), or various China direct / eBay China options.


have not seen complete build for that frame yet, still waiting for mine to arrive.
that fatsno kit will work for conversion of rear hub as you plan. sarma sells their hubs individually too, its just you get better price for set.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

mortenste said:


> Screw off the routing cap in one end,and then take the hose true the hole.


Cool! Thanks, I did not have that tiny allen wrench required for the job. I am working out rim solutions now. Going toward Nextie. $$ pretty much the same as no name carbon from anywhere else online.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

I am waiting for the 65 mm nextie rim,Its coming for sale soon.


----------



## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

mortenste said:


> I am waiting for the 65 mm nextie rim,Its coming for sale soon.


Whoa! Did you say sale soon?? Details man!


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Same design as 90 mm,520 gram pr rim


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## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

brankulo said:


> have not seen complete build for that frame yet, still waiting for mine to arrive.
> that fatsno kit will work for conversion of rear hub as you plan. sarma sells their hubs individually too, its just you get better price for set.


Brankulo,
After looking at the hub conversion options shown on the Universal website (which include the hope part numbers), I agree with you that HUB241 kit should work to fit a 170x12mm axle. I think this will be my plan too. Thanks for the reply.


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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

I'm seeing that among the many standards, there is currently a 170x12 TA AND a 177x12 TA. I think the Chinese carbon fatty is 170x12 and the Fatsno with endcaps will be 177, thus NOT compatible. Can someone explain this to me? Thanks.


----------



## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

campykid said:


> I'm seeing that among the many standards, there is currently a 170x12 TA AND a 177x12 TA. I think the Chinese carbon fatty is 170x12 and the Fatsno with endcaps will be 177, thus NOT compatible. Can someone explain this to me? Thanks.


I assumed this too, but as was pointed out, there are different end cap kits from hope. Take a look here:
Universal Cycles -- Hope Hub Conversion Kits
There is HUB242 which is for 142x12, and HUB241 which is for 135x12. So if you need to change in the future, it's just $25-27 for new end caps. That's my interpretation at least...


----------



## sk1er18 (Jul 11, 2009)

mortenste said:


> Think i need some red hubs too
> View attachment 911375


Would love to see that with the wheels I just built!!










Now you have me second guessing my black frame; i was debating going with white..


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Would be perfect


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

trevorrr said:


> I assumed this too, but as was pointed out, there are different end cap kits from hope. Take a look here:
> Universal Cycles -- Hope Hub Conversion Kits
> There is HUB242 which is for 142x12, and HUB241 which is for 135x12. So if you need to change in the future, it's just $25-27 for new end caps. That's my interpretation at least...


Yep. That worked for me.

More detail can be found in a couple previous posts:
Chinese Carbon fatty - post11230772
Chinese Carbon fatty - post11232315


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Just pulled the pin on a Carbon frame. Ordered the 170 rear 30 to 45 days before shipping. Going to be asking a lot of questions soon.


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

trevorrr said:


> I am also likely to get this frame (IP-010 170mm TA, 17") and would like to hear feedback, although I suspect there is none to be had at this point.
> 
> I can't say for sure, but I suspect that the HUB241 kit will convert your 170mmQR hub to 177x12TA since their normal function is to convert a 135QR to 142x12TA. Anybody else know for sure? I'd love to get the hope fatsnow hubs for this build, but I don't think there is an off the shelf endcap option for 170x12TA. I think the options at this point are Sarma (which I don't want because they seem to sell the hubs as a set, and I want a 150mm front for the Bluto), or various China direct / eBay China options.


What about these hubs? Bikeman Salsa Fat Conversion Hubset 2 Red


----------



## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

RockyJo1 said:


> What about these hubs? Bikeman Salsa Fat Conversion Hubset 2 Red


Those look like 177mm end caps not 170mm. It's only 170mm if it's quick release.


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

trevorrr said:


> Those look like 177mm end caps not 170mm. It's only 170mm if it's quick release.


Front convertible 9x135mm QR/15x142 Thru axle spacing
Rear convertible 10x170mm QR/12x177 Thru axle spacing
Front Hub Spacing: 135,142mm
Front Axle Type: 9x1,15mm Thru
Rear Hub Spacing: 170mm
The 142 and the 177 are the length of the thru axles?


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

RockyJo1 said:


> The 142 and the 177 are the length of the thru axles?


no, these are hub spacing dimensions as stated in your post.


----------



## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

Custom paint IP-010 frameset and IP-FR80C 80mm width rims were shipped out today

Some pictures for reference

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

dfiler said:


> Mean ass mother effin stealth monster fighter truck
> 
> Tomorrow is the inaugural ride. Damn I can't wait to ride it.
> 
> View attachment 906989


Dfiler, don't think you ever got around to it or I missed it, but can you give us some info on the ride on that bad boy?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Negotiator50 said:


> Dfiler, don't think you ever got around to it or I missed it, but can you give us some info on the ride on that bad boy?


It rides great but I'd make a few changes. The chainstays should be much shorter if it is to be used as a trail bike. It is hard to get the front end up with such long chainstays.

Here's a video of me riding it in my local park:
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fu...-out-pittsburgh-singletrack-video-924282.html


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dfiler said:


> It rides great but I'd make a few changes. The chainstays should be much shorter if it is to be used as a trail bike. It is hard to get the front end up with such long chainstays.


this is what i am worried about a bit with speedercycling frame. if you look at original corvus frame, it has curved seat tube to help to bring rear wheel closer underneath your butt. chinese one has straight seat tube, so assuming stays will be longer.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

With metal frames, it is easiest to have the down tube, chain stays and seat tube come together at the bottom bracket. Thus, to move shorten the chain stays, it is necessary to bend the seat post. 

However with carbon there are plenty of design options. The juncture of those tubes is huge on my bike and the same thing could be accomplished without bending any tubes. The bottom bracket could be placed anywhere, not needing the seat tube to terminate at the same spot.

But as you've noted, that wasn't done and the seat stays are long.

Manuals are hard and I don't trust wheely drops like I do on my other bikes. People attempt to lift the front end when trying out the bike and comment on how it is heavy. Really what they're noticing are the long chainstays moving the rear axle backward, not the weight. 

It's still crazy fun to ride. But just like when 29ers were new and geometries not perfectly refined, there is room for fat bike improvement. Up until recently they were more like touring rigs designed for adverse conditions. Now we're trying to use them as everyday trail bikes, ripping our usual singletrack and wanting them to perform best in that scenario.

Some companies are catching on but it's obvious that many others will take a year or two or three to make the shift. Just like there are various types of road/cx/touring frames, there will be various types of fat bike frames.


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

dfiler said:


> With metal frames, it is easiest to have the down tube, chain stays and seat tube come together at the bottom bracket. Thus, to move shorten the chain stays, it is necessary to bend the seat post.
> 
> However with carbon there are plenty of design options. The juncture of those tubes is huge on my bike and the same thing could be accomplished without bending any tubes. The bottom bracket could be placed anywhere, not needing the seat tube to terminate at the same spot.
> 
> ...


So what length chain stay are you looking for? Your frame looks to have a 445 mm chain stay. My Kona Honzo I believe has some of the shortest chain stays on a 29er at about 415 mm. You think they can put a fat bike frame together with that short of a chain stay and still keep it rideable?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Negotiator50 said:


> So what length chain stay are you looking for? Your frame looks to have a 445 mm chain stay. My Kona Honzo I believe has some of the shortest chain stays on a 29er at about 415 mm. You think they can put a fat bike frame together with that short of a chain stay and still keep it rideable?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


The chainstays on my fatty are 468mm, not 445mm. That's pretty similar to the 907 whiteout which is 467mm.

I run my 29er canfield nimble 9 at around 420mm in the sliding dropouts. The 48mm difference is massive. On that bike, sneezing is enough to lift the front end. My fat bike requires throwing my entire weight backward as violently as possible. I can get the front end up some but not up to the balance point. That is, it's hard to do an instant unless there is time to prepare. This rules out manualling over a lot of the stuff that comes up quickly or around blind turns. I'll certainly get better at it. But requiring that kind of exaggerated weight shift makes it an unusable maneuver on a milisecond notice.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

445mm he is referring to, is stays length on chinese corvus.


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## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

I just sent payment for an IP-010 - 17" UD Matte 170mm/12mm spacing. No fork - I'm going to do a Bluto. Sounds like the axle is not being included with the frame.

Winter comes early in Alberta - lets hope it doesn't take too long for delivery...


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Looks like that mysterious frame could be available via KHS soon!

Enrico Lodi just posted the following to facebook.



























> KHS 4SEASON 5000, FIBRA DI CARBONIO E MOLTO ALTRO ANCORA
> 
> Quasi un mese fa avevamo anticipato le nuove proposte di KHS nel segmento fat bike e ora siamo finalmente in
> grado di mostrare le prime immagini e presentare l'allestimento della 4Season 5000, modello top di gamma con
> ...


*Translation:*


> KHS 4SEASON 5000, carbon fiber and more nearly a month ago we anticipated the new proposals of KHS in fat bike segment and now we are finally able to show the first images and present the 4Season 5000, top model with frame and carbon fork intended to collect the inheritance of a highly successful model what was KHS 4season 3000.
> Just take a look at the picture to get a feeling of strength and power because KHS 4 Season 5000 has been designed to not stop at nothing, it is sand, stones, mud or snow or technical descents.
> Frame and fork are made of carbon fiber, is now 26 wheels with rims Weinmann width 100 mm perforated to accommodate up to 4.8 cover "in size.
> KHS engineers at design time are allocated from the ground up to enable the 4Season 5000 to accommodate oversized tyres wheels secured to frame and fork with passers pins; in fact the rear dropouts will host a hub by 190 mm with 12 mm thru-axle, while the fork is placed to the front wheel with a 15 mm axle, in order to ensure greater rigidity structure and better precision.
> ...


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

A friend pointed out it is also a match for the Framed Alaskan Carbon which should be available in November.

Alaskan Carbon | Framed Bikes

Do people agree that these are the same frames?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i knew about Framed, KHS is something new. they do look like the frame you have for sure.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

dfiler said:


> A friend pointed out it is also a match for the Framed Alaskan Carbon which should be available in November.
> 
> Alaskan Carbon | Framed Bikes
> 
> Do people agree that these are the same frames?


Any idea which frame this is and whether it can be purchased from an over seas distributor to the US in its generic form?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

you can get it from q2 cycling. they will not ship to any north american address. there are ways to get around this however.  last time i inquired about the frame, 2 or 3 months ago, the price was just tad over $1000, including shipping.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

brankulo said:


> i knew about Framed, KHS is something new. they do look like the frame you have for sure.


Interesting. When KHS came out with their original fat bike, Bikes Direct had an exact copy pretty quickly after.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

That is pretty common in the bike industry. A lot of smaller brands will simply buy a design and slap their logo on it. Sometimes they buy exclusive distribution rights for a region or the entire world. Other times they only buy the right to put their logo on it, with full knowledge that other companies will be doing the same thing with that exact frame.

In this situation, it looks like we're dealing with what is sometimes called an "open mold", meaning the factory owns it and sells distribution rights to more than one company.

Upon closer examination, it appears as if the KHS version doesn't have water cage mounts on the seat tube while the Framed version does. But maybe it's just the photo that makes it look that way.


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## frl (Jul 22, 2014)

Have to be the same frame. Or a cloned one. I think that is the nicest carbon fat bike frame, ever.


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## williford (Dec 8, 2005)

I tried searching this monster thread but couldn't find it. Does anyone know if the IP-018 will fit a 29+? 

Besides the 120mm vs 100mm BB and a higher standover, is there any disadvantage of the IP-018 vs the IP-010? It seems like having 197mm rear would be a big advantage if you are swapping wheels, using existing mainstream hubs, etc.


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## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

I know this has been asked and sort-of answered before, but I've been burned on headset compatibility before. For IP-010, what headset should I be buying for a tapered fork? I am used to frame mfgs specifying "EC34 upper, ECxxx lower" etc, not just a generic 1 1/8" - 1 1/2" tapered. 

Second question - seatpost clamp included on these frames?


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

anybody mounted wheels and tires in there fb-02 frame,thinking about 170 mm rear frame ?wonder if i can use the snowshoe xl,with 1*10 gearing.


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Anyone got their frames assembled? Time for some pictures and specs. What tires fit etc. so the rest of us can follow 

I am looking at getting one painted green/black with wheels to match. 

Chris.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

trevorrr said:


> I know this has been asked and sort-of answered before, but I've been burned on headset compatibility before. For IP-010, what headset should I be buying for a tapered fork? I am used to frame mfgs specifying "EC34 upper, ECxxx lower" etc, not just a generic 1 1/8" - 1 1/2" tapered.
> 
> Second question - seatpost clamp included on these frames?


I just ordered a headset with the frame from Peter. Seatpost clamp not incuded. It takes a 34.9


----------



## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

a bottom bracket related question;
has anybody found a 120mm BSA crank/spindle/ bottom bracket ?

It seems to me this is a mistake. 
the 100mm BSA is the standard fat bike norm.
surly has done the 120 mm Press Fit bottom bracket on their ICT. The 120mm PF uses the same cranks and spindle as the 100mm BSA, only instead of threading the bearing on the outside, the bearings are pressed into the frame, resulting in the same Q

it looks to me that some manufacturars have been to quick in their cut and paste and have created a new (un-wanted) standard. 
I am interested in one of these frames, but not with a silly bottom bracket/ shell


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

100mm works for 170mm frames. 190 or 197 spaced frames require a 20mm longer spindle. With 100mm BB that means adding a 10mm spacer on each side between the bearing and crank. A 120mm BB frame eliminates the need for those spacers. 

I wish my frame had a 120mm BB because without those spacers the bearings would be next to the cranks. The BB on my frame creeks already and I think it could be partially because he cranks are cantilevered out from the bearings causing the spindle to twist when seriously mashing on the pedals.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

constantijn13 said:


> @dfiler; can you point me in the direction for the suppliers/ brands of those spindles ?


Race face next sl or turbine 190mm with press fit bearings. I'm not sure about the internal spacing sleeve between the bearings though. But otherwise, the spindle is the correct length.

Other brands might work but I have race face so that's all I've paid attention to.

(Edit: weird, this post appeared before the one it is replying to)


----------



## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

@dfiler; can you point me in the direction for the suppliers/ brands of those spindles ?


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

trevorrr said:


> I know this has been asked and sort-of answered before, but I've been burned on headset compatibility before. For IP-010, what headset should I be buying for a tapered fork? I am used to frame mfgs specifying "EC34 upper, ECxxx lower" etc, not just a generic 1 1/8" - 1 1/2" tapered.


I ordered my headset with the frame (Xiamen). I have ordered two carbon frames from China before, and both of these where IS42/28.6 | IS52/40. I expect the IP10 frame to use the same headset. In fact I think all 1 1/8" to 1.5" china frames use the same headset...


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

can external bearings be used of some sort to keep em close to cranks?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Raceface threaded bottom brackets already use external bearings due to the larger spindle diameter.


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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

Just received confirmation from Hope: HUB241 converts the Fatsno rear hub to 170x12, NOT 177x12. So sounds like it will work with this frame. Now, where does one find a 170x12 thru-axle compatible with this frame? Peter at xmiplay says the thru axle does not come with the frame, and they don't sell them. Also, what specific model headset I would need to use with a 1 1/8" straight steerer fork?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Ebay: Thru AXLE12MM x 170mm Rear Quick Release Frame thru Axle Skewer | eBay

The same seller offers various other fat through axles.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

i am wondering about making my own thru axles with carbon tubes.wonder if it would be strong enough with reinforcement in the ends.will not be quick release,but with bolts in the end.


----------



## SundayRiverRider (Oct 29, 2008)

Do you guys know of any Chinese manufacturers making aluminum framed fat bikes for sale? I have a friend with a beat up Pugs and was thinking of picking up a new frame that was lighter and not steel, and hopefully cheaper than the $500 price tag for a carbon frame. Sorry to hijack the thread, I just figured someone with some info may read this.
Thanks for any links and/or info.


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## maamu (Sep 8, 2010)

^ Poland Mielec
http://www.bikemielec.com/en/index.php
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/my-custom-budget-fatbike-842065.html


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

campykid said:


> Just received confirmation from Hope: HUB241 converts the Fatsno rear hub to 170x12, NOT 177x12. So sounds like it will work with this frame. Now, where does one find a 170x12 thru-axle compatible with this frame? Peter at xmiplay says the thru axle does not come with the frame, and they don't sell them. Also, what specific model headset I would need to use with a 1 1/8" straight steerer fork?


Actually we have the fitting 170x12 rear thru axle available now.

So we have below axles available:
135x15
170x12
190x12
197x12


----------



## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

can anyone post any pictures of what crank they have been able to fit to 120mm BSA bottom bracket ?


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

All cranks designed around the 190mm rear spacing standard should fit without a problem in a 120mm BB. (i.e. Race Face Turbine, Race Face Next, Race Face Cinch systems, Sram XX1 with RF spindle, etc.)

While they are all designed around the 100mm BB shell width, they use extra 10mm spacers on each end of the axle to make it equivalent to a 120mm wide bb shell. The challenge you will find with 120mm BB, using currently available cranks is that you will not have a wide-enough plastic sleeve inside the BB, between the bearing cups. This can lead to premature bearing failure if you ride in wet conditions with water ingress from the inside-out.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The raceface 190mm systems allegedly come with a sleeve that will work for 120mm setups.

My RF Next SL cranks creak like mad so I need to take them apart and investigate. I can check on the sleeve at that point, probably sometime next week. It is currently installed on a 100mm BB frame. The provided sleeve did seem to insert quite far into the BB cups so perhaps it was indeed 20mm longer than needed and might also work for 120mm BBs.

Or... you know, like just buy a crankset that is advertised as working with 120mm frames. Here is one example:
Universal Cycles -- Race Face Turbine Fat Bike Crank Arms - Includes Bottom Bracket


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Can anyone confirm the seatpost clamp size for the FB02 or IP-010? Peter says 34.9 but that seems very small for a 31.6 post.


----------



## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

thanks for clearing the bb issue!


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Has anyone tried fitting 29+ to a chinese carbon fattie? I thought I had looked before and the clearance didn't look like they would work, and searching for "29x3.0" and "Knards" didn't yield any results in this thread.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The 190 or 197mm spaced frames should fit without a problem. They're designed to fit 26x4.8 tires on a 100mm rim. The diameter of that setup is within a few millimeters of a 29x3 tire on a 50mm rim.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

What's the difference between IP010 and the IP018?


----------



## mtakahashi (Mar 8, 2006)

I have been sitting on the sidelines reading this massive thread, and last night, I pulled the trigger on a chinese carbon fat bike & some 65mm rims from icanbikes.com - i ended up getting the SN-01 frame with no fork - since I am going to get a Bluto instead.

My question for dfiler is: which travel bluto did you get? has anyone checked out the axle to crown measurement on the stock carbon fork and compared it to the bluto?

I am trying to decide if I should get the 100mm bluto, or the 120mm? I don't want to throw the bike out of whack too much, but I seem to remember dfiler saying that with the longer chainstays, it's tough to manual and get the front end up quickly and effortlessly... Wondering if raising up the front end with a 120mm bluto would help that???

Thanks in advance - all ideas & thoughts are greatly appreciated...



dfiler said:


> You need fatties in the flesh?
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Cool lots of options. What is out there with 170 spacing, quick releases, a head angle of 69.5 or less with a 468mm fork, and a threaded bottom bracket?


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I got the 100 bluto because that is what was available. A 120 would have been preferable for how and where I ride. A 100 could just as easily be better for other people or other places. Sorry, there's really no correct answer as to what the best fork length is.

Fork length won't make a difference in how easy it is to manual.


----------



## timbernerslee (Oct 23, 2013)

Just a very quick question. It appears all of the frames are made for thru-axles of varying widths, has anyone used these frames with standard 170mm, 9mm quick release wheels? If so what has to be done?


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Received my IP-010 today just 6 business days after placing my order with Peter. Amazing! Frame looks great and through axles fit nice. Can't wait for the rest of my parts to arrive.


----------



## mtakahashi (Mar 8, 2006)

DVN, What cranks and BB you gonna put on that bad boy?:thumbsup:



dvn said:


> Received my IP-010 today just 6 business days after placing my order. Amazing! Frame looks great and through axles fit nice. Can't wait for the rest of my parts to arrive.
> View attachment 916930


----------



## Milo-Bar (Aug 20, 2014)

*IP010 and 018 geometry differences*



PHeller said:


> What's the difference between IP010 and the IP018?


There are significant differences in the geometry of the 010 and 018. All measurements are functionally different except chain stay length.

We have chosen and bought 2 of the 010 last week based on Bottom Bracket 100mm vs 120mm, 190mm rear spacing vs 197 and looks.

I'm keen to hear how things go just on these two basic configs alone.
At the end of our decision making timeline a new frame came on the market but we just didn't like the look of it.

Thanks to all the contributors to this forum thread.
We'll keep posting as the build/use cycle progresses.

Cheers from Margaret River, West Australia.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

mtakahashi said:


> DVN, What cranks and BB you gonna put on that bad boy?:thumbsup:


SRAM X9 with spiderless chainring. 1x10 setup.


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## Milo-Bar (Aug 20, 2014)

Can any one recommend a disk brake adapter model number for an IP-010 for 180mm disk brakes?


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

Lars_D said:


> Cool lots of options. What is out there with 170 spacing, quick releases, a head angle of 69.5 or less with a 468mm fork, and a threaded bottom bracket?


I've been looking at LT Bike's LTK010. It's 170mm with a 69 HT angle and 470 fork. Close to what you are after. Getting close to pulling the trigger. They also offer a fat suspension fork.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Milo-Bar said:


> Can any one recommend a disk brake adapter model number for an IP-010 for 180mm disk brakes?


Not sure a 180 will fit the rear but you would need a standard +20mm post mount adapter either way.


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

aizu1 said:


> I've been looking at LT Bike's LTK010. It's 170mm with a 69 HT angle and 470 fork. Close to what you are after. Getting close to pulling the trigger. They also offer a fat suspension fork.


Wow, that is pretty close. Do you have a link to a description of the frame?


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

Lars_D said:


> Wow, that is pretty close. Do you have a link to a description of the frame?


I am having trouble uploading the file. Sorry. Just go to their website and ask for the details.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

IP-010 coming along. I think she's gonna come in under 25 lbs.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

man, plain ud matte is the best looking finish


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

anyone having issues with 190mm spaced frame? here is what i received today from speedercycling.
"Originally we planned arrange shipment this week, but we received our customer feedback from USA. they said the frame 190mm spacing design is a little difference for the hub in USA market, in order to you can build the fat bike easy, so, we advise factory adjust the design. the delivery time within September 10"


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## Greg_o (Mar 22, 2012)

As a 'curious but not overly adept at building' observer, I gotta ask - Why do they not sell complete bikes, but rather just the frame and fork?

(sorry if it's already been covered here)


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

Greg_o said:


> As a 'curious but not overly adept at building' observer, I gotta ask - Why do they not sell complete bikes, but rather just the frame and fork?
> 
> (sorry if it's already been covered here)


They're manufacturing subcontractors who build bikes for other companies. They've discovered that they can add to their income stream by selling unbranded product to individuals. Some of the individuals that companies like this sell to, actually start their own brands; Lamere springs to mind as an example. Mostly though, these websites aren't there for us, the end user, they're B2B sites to market their wares to small brands worldwide in quantities of 100pc or more.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

cavo said:


> anyone having issues with 190mm spaced frame? here is what i received today from speedercycling.
> "Originally we planned arrange shipment this week, but we received our customer feedback from USA. they said the frame 190mm spacing design is a little difference for the hub in USA market, in order to you can build the fat bike easy, so, we advise factory adjust the design. the delivery time within September 10"


Yes. I have the 190 spaced IP-010 and with a 190 spaced hub in place, the rotor is too far outward as is the cassette lockring. Both rub bad. If I install the hub with the supplied 197 spacers everything lines up much better but this requires a slight spreading of the dropouts. I'm not going to sweat it but there does seem to be some confusion on the spacing.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

ok, thanks


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## Milo-Bar (Aug 20, 2014)

dvn said:


> Yes. I have the 190 spaced IP-010 and with a 190 spaced hub in place, the rotor is too far outward as is the cassette lockring. Both rub bad. If I install the hub with the supplied 197 spacers everything lines up much better but this requires a slight spreading of the dropouts. I'm not going to sweat it but there does seem to be some confusion on the spacing.


Hi DVN
I concur with you regards rear spacing, brake rub, cassette rub and the fact that the rear _will only fit a 160mm rotor_.

Today a carbon wheelset from a different supplier with *chosen* hubs arrived these hubs seem to be about 188mm wide. (I only have 160mm calipers)

There were 4 equal width spacers totaling 14mm supplied with the wheel, each spacer's width takes the full depth of the rebate, leaving no rebate for the wheel to drop into.

Spreading the rear from 190 to 197 does not appear to be an optimum solution but something is going to have to give.

Jamming it all in there is a solution.
I'll remove the derailleur hanger and consider modifying the spacers, hanger or the frame or see if a packer fits into the hub somewhere on the drive side....

Not sure I'll get any love from the frame or wheel supplier, at least folks who have not received their frame have a chance for the manufacturer to get it right...


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

I revived my 190mm Xiamen(Speedercycling) IP10 last week. The machined recess is 2.5mm on each side. This is "stealing" from the width of the hub. This should be 190mm flat-face or 197 with 3.5mm recess on each side as discussed earlier in this thread.

OK, so I have to force a 197mm hub in my frame to make things line up! I have some Sarma hubs in the mail, which is convertible...but now my axle is to short. Arghhh!

This is the price to pay for being Chinese beta testers...


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

It seems like the manufacturer got their 190 and 197 spacing mixed up. Even with the 197 spacers in there, I had to dremel the mounting slots in my calipers to get them out far enough the be centered on the rotor. My Xmiplay axle is a bit short as well. I was supposed to receive axles with my Chinese wheelset (Chosen hubs) but did not. They are on the way so I'll see if that one is any longer. I'm not too concerned about having to spread the dropouts a bit. What I am concerned about is dropping one of those axle spacers during a flat change on the trail and losing it. Then I'm done! I think I need to find a way to bond the spacer to the dropout so that can't happen. +1 on being the beta testers!


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

dvn said:


> It seems like the manufacturer got their 190 and 197 spacing mixed up.


I have an idea of what happened. Look at this detail of the IP10 frame drawing posted by [email protected]:








The dimension for the position of the 160mm brake rotor (13.5mm) is referencing the inside of the frame instead of the hub face which would have been the logical choice. If this is true, this is simply a CAD error that got into production.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Geir68 said:


> I have an idea of what happened. Look at this detail of the IP10 frame drawing posted by [email protected]:
> View attachment 918626
> 
> 
> The dimension for the position of the 160mm brake rotor (13.5mm) is referencing the inside of the frame instead of the hub face which would have been the logical choice. If this is true, this is simply a CAD error that got into production.


Looks like you've got it there. I'm sure Peter will see this. I'm interested to hear his response.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Geir68 said:


> I have an idea of what happened. Look at this detail of the IP10 frame drawing posted by [email protected]:
> View attachment 918626
> 
> 
> The dimension for the position of the 160mm brake rotor (13.5mm) is referencing the inside of the frame instead of the hub face which would have been the logical choice. If this is true, this is simply a CAD error that got into production.


The drawing is missing the assumed hub face distance from the frame. The 13.5mm measurement may be the necessary clearance so the rotor doesn't hit the caliper or stays.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Geir68 said:


> I revived my 190mm Xiamen(Speedercycling) IP10 last week. The machined recess is 2.5mm on each side. This is "stealing" from the width of the hub. This should be 190mm flat-face or 197 with 3.5mm recess on each side as discussed earlier in this thread.


so would, lets say JB welding 2.5mm spacer in each slot and using 190mm spaced hub be a solution?


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## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi All, just joined the forum although I've lurked here for sometime and previously in the Chinese carbon 29er one. Been reading everything with interest. I have a Dengfu FM190 frame and fork arriving this week and carbon wheelset with chosen hubs are en route. Some concerns about the hub to drop out interface as I have been informed that it's a 190mm hub requiring spacers to make up to 197mm for the thru axle. Fingers crossed it will fit ok and I'll be getting my first fat bike experience in the near future.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Jay, fm190 is not the frame discussed in last couple of posts. you never know, they might have gotten this one right


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

cavo said:


> so would, lets say JB welding 2.5mm spacer in each slot and using 190mm spaced hub be a solution?


No, the frame is already 190mm inside the slots. Thats the problem. It should have been 197.
I see I made a typing error about this. The slots are 3.5mm, like they should be according to the drawing.
----------
There must exist a standardized distance from hub face to brake rotor. This could be a function of hub width, but I think it is the same across all hub widths. 
This is a picture of one of my 135mm rear hubs:








It measures aprox. 15.5mm from hub to _inside_ brake rotor. Subtract 2mm from the rotor width and we are down to 13.5mm.

Our frames have the brake mount 3.5mm to far towards the center of the wheel. :madman:


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

ok, so i n that case, could dropouts be drilled additional 3.5 mm with sanding drill bit or something similar? or is there going to be not enough dropout material left?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

That stinks! that's the frame I would have bought too.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i think you need to add 3.5mm on non drive side, rather than subtract. seems like spreading the dropouts is the only way.


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

brankulo said:


> i think you need to add 3.5mm on non drive side, rather than subtract. seems like spreading the dropouts is the only way.


No, we need to add 3.5mm spacers on both sides. There cassette lock ring is clashing with the inside of the derr. hanger.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Went through Google Images and typical distance form disc bolt hole to axle clamping surface is 14.5-15.5mm.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

yes, so i think there is no other way, other than spreading stays to do this. unless the hub used has rotor mounts and lockring faces 3.5mm further towards the center, right?


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

brankulo said:


> yes, so i think there is no other way, other than spreading stays to do this. unless the hub used has rotor mounts and lockring faces 3.5mm further towards the center, right?


Yes, and this makes me think of the post from Speedercycling:


> "Originally we planned arrange shipment this week, but we received our customer feedback from USA. they said the frame 190mm spacing design is a little difference for the hub in USA market, i


Are the Chinese creating hubs that fits this design? With the lockring and rotor mounts 3.5mm urther towards the center?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

and so this is not the issue on 170mm rear of this same frame? or is it?


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

We will find out when Morten receives his hubs:
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/norwegian-chinese-fatty-build-926452.html


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

i remember there was a member, Davedivide or such, contributing to this thread. he got some chinese hubs from ebay. i think those were 190mm rear. would be interesting to hear from him too.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Check out the Novatec D202SB-AA. I can't find a picture but this thread needs a pair measured with all the different axle configurations.


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## skiinnyboy (Mar 12, 2013)

Hi,

I have the chosen hubs and the rotor rubs on the calliper mounting area of the frame! Would an option of filing down the rotor side of the hub work where you mount the rotor too? That should bring in the rotor as to not contact it. Feels better then spreading the frame. Any thoughts?


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

I was thinking that too. You could have the rotor mounting surface machined 3.5mm. Then use a small spacer on the cassette side to give just enough clearance for the lockring. That would mean finding a machine shop to do it and then disassembling and reassembling the rear wheel. These are the Chosen hubs.


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

In theory machining rotor mounts 3.5mm should work, but I fear this would reduce the thickness of the threaded lug to much. This is a critical component for transferring the brake force between the rotor and the hub.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

skiinnyboy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the chosen hubs and the rotor rubs on the calliper mounting area of the frame! Would an option of filing down the rotor side of the hub work where you mount the rotor too? That should bring in the rotor as to not contact it. Feels better then spreading the frame. Any thoughts?


def not filing, you would not be able to get surfaces to align vertical perfectly.
cnc shop, maybe.


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## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

its easier to laminate on a new brake mount....


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

Geir68 said:


> In theory machining rotor mounts 3.5mm should work, but I fear this would reduce the thickness of the threaded lug to much. This is a critical component for transferring the brake force between the rotor and the hub.


It can't be that critical if a bunch of racer-types are using only 3 of the 6 bolts without issues.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

I have not had time to work on my Speedercycling build. So after getting pinged with PM's from other posters I looked at my hubs and frame together and yes they do not play nicely together...Wrote and email to Sarah at Speeder. Will see what they have to say. I do have a lathe and can probably skin back enough space to get this combo to work. 

What is the correct distance that eveyone is posting for this measurement ..3.5mm. I will verify before I actually get to the lathe.

db


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

aizu1 said:


> It can't be that critical if a bunch of racer-types are using only 3 of the 6 bolts without issues.


I wonder if they are using 3 aluminum bolts. Now that would be some "smart" weight savings.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

I have emailed Peter about the IP-010. No response so far.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

Geir68 said:


> In theory machining rotor mounts 3.5mm should work, but I fear this would reduce the thickness of the threaded lug to much. This is a critical component for transferring the brake force between the rotor and the hub.


I think that there is plenty of thread to keep a rotor from breaking loose. I am not attaining F1 speeds on my Pugs!

Regarding the rotor to caliper mount thing. Interestingly enough I have had to add 3.5mm spacers behind the rotor on a Surly 135mm front to get it to play with my Carver Beast fork? I wonder if some designer over in Shenzhen got their hands on a weird hub of some kind when he was setting up for his carbon layup? I have never had to put spacers behind a brake rotor before. And these were "Branded" goods to boot.


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

dvn said:


> I have emailed Peter about the IP-010. No response so far.


I did the same, explained the problem, referred to this thread and Peter replied this morning(european time):
[email protected]:


> The max brake rotor size is 160mm.
> And I will discuss with our factory and check out what the problem is with.


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## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

i am about to go for an IP 18. anyone has build up one of these already ?


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

someone has. check in the middle of this thread somewhere.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Geir68 said:


> We will find out when Morten receives his hubs:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/norwegian-chinese-fatty-build-926452.html


the hubs are sent now,so we will see next week


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

Hi Morten
You can check you 170mm frame with an ordinary 135mm rear weel with rotor and casette mounted. Just press the hub face into the slot (with the QR exit in the 12mm) hole and check for rotor- and cassette lock ring interference with the frame and derr. hanger.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

it touches the frame….


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

mortenste said:


> it touches the frame&#8230;.


with 160mm rotor?


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

sorry should be more specific,only the locking on the cassette


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

thanks, any chance you have drawings for this frame with 170mm rear so we can compare?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The frame on my 190mm spaced frame is really close to the lock-ring/11-tooth. The derailler hanger required dremeling to eliminate chain rub.

I considered switching to the 197mm end caps for the hub to provide more clearance. The actual frame spacing is already a bit bigger than 190mm and the chainstays could be splayed apart to install/remove the wheel. This would require a longer axle, one made for 197mm spaced frames. Also, the rotor would need to be spaced outward from the hub body 3.5mm. A 5mm spacer would work great because it already seems like the caliper mount is a couple mm too far outboard.

But really, I probably won't go to those lengths. It is working as is, with occasional chain rub when it is really coated with mud.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

has anyone who got 190mm frame from speedercycling heard back from them on the issue?


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

brankulo said:


> has anyone who got 190mm frame from speedercycling heard back from them on the issue?


I have heard from Sarah, they want to "Help with the Issue" and want photos, so I have some of those. In the meantime I have done some machining on my hub and will attach them when I have time.

db


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

they have not shipped my frame yet and i am thinking weather i should use pay pal to dispute the transaction. i received email from Sarah today saying there is nothing wrong with the frame. i replied explaining the situation, gave her link to this thread and forwarded conversation with Peter from xmiplay who clearly admitted the problem.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

brankulo said:


> they have not shipped my frame yet and i am thinking weather i should use pay pal to dispute the transaction. i received email from Sarah today saying there is nothing wrong with the frame. i replied explaining the situation, gave her link to this thread and forwarded conversation with Peter from xmiplay who clearly admitted the problem.


Hopefully I can post the changes that I have had to make to my rear hub to make it workable. I will copy Sarah with the images. I don't think that there is anything that can be done with the frames that have already been laid up. The overlap of caliper mounts and and rotor with my frame and hub was a GOOD 4mm, which is what I removed from the hub. I am using Magura Mart SL brakes so BB7's may have mover wiggle room??


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

*Generic Chinese Hub Milling for FB02 Speeder Frame*









Hub with 4mm removed to fit rotor evenly between Halves of Magura Marta Brakes. Rear. I tried 3mm first then installed rotor on hub and placed on frame with rear caliper in place 3mm still caused the rotor to rub on caliper frame.

db

ps I will show complete set up when I have time if anyone with a lathe is interested. It took 15 minutes to set up and complete the lathe work.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

looks like good chunk of material left


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

brankulo said:


> they have not shipped my frame yet and i am thinking weather i should use pay pal to dispute the transaction. i received email from Sarah today saying there is nothing wrong with the frame. i replied explaining the situation, gave her link to this thread and forwarded conversation with Peter from xmiplay who clearly admitted the problem.


thinking about doing the same. just note that you would have to file the dispute with credit card company to get your money back, in case your transaction with paypal is older than 45 days. not a big deal though, i had to do it once before.


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## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

I have carbon wheelset with powerway hubs. Given that most sellers have those, it might be possible that those will fit.
Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for 190mm caps, my set came with 197mm caps, and no way in hell it fit into dropouts of my IP-10.

It is worth mentioning that e13 fatbike crankset rubs the frame on nondriveside. (I know, they are for 170mm frames, but that was a risk I was willing to take)

I've filed it a bit, but the clearance is like 1mm, and about 2mm from drive side.
I'll see how it works out in action, but frame is dame stiff (did I mention that I could not budge the it enough to make 197mm wheel fit into 190mm?), and 30mm axle they use should be plenty stiff as well, as well as cranks themselves, so I hope that it would be enough.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

davedivided said:


> View attachment 919165
> 
> 
> Hub with 4mm removed to fit rotor evenly between Halves of Magura Marta Brakes. Rear. I tried 3mm first then installed rotor on hub and placed on frame with rear caliper in place 3mm still caused the rotor to rub on caliper frame.
> ...


That is what I call functional weight savings. Well done!


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## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

BTW, I've just checked, and when I position rear wheel with powerway hub as it should be in the dropout with proper endcaps, the rotor SEEMS to align without a hitch.
Real results to follow in a couple of days, as I receive my endcaps.

Also, a question:

What's your opinion on shift cable routing, to minimise bending in the shift cable housing from the shifters to the 'holes' in the frame?
Also, anyone drilled out the cable stops and used full housing routing?

All this apply to IP-10 or FB-02 frame, 7mm stem, 680mm flat bars (vectors)


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

@davedivided
Please post lathe setup(I was planning between centers with a spoke as a driving dog). 
I might do the same, if my threaded lugs are beefy enough. Yours looks OK after machining. My light 135mm hubs have 5mm lugs. Thats why I expressed my concern about this mod.


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## skiinnyboy (Mar 12, 2013)

Hi,

So here are some pictures of my temporary fix for the ip-10 frame I have. I was able to get 3.5mm spacers made that fit on each side of the current end caps for the 190mm hub. Basically this brings the total to 197mm. It spreads the back a tad but nothing critical I found. There is now clearance for the rotor to move freely without contacting the caliper mounts on the frame, as well as clearance for the cassette and chain so they do not hit the frame. Have not finished build but looks promising. I am still hoping Peter for xmiplay will have a permanent fix in the near future.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

Geir68 said:


> @davedivided
> Please post lathe setup(I was planning between centers with a spoke as a driving dog).
> I might do the same, if my threaded lugs are beefy enough. Yours looks OK after machining. My light 135mm hubs have 5mm lugs. Thats why I expressed my concern about this mod.


















Using the tale stock is the only way to get this to work.

db


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Balor said:


> BTW, I've just checked, and when I position rear wheel with powerway hub as it should be in the dropout with proper endcaps, the rotor SEEMS to align without a hitch.
> Real results to follow in a couple of days, as I receive my endcaps.
> 
> Also, a question:
> ...


Yes, I drilled mine out to run full length housing. I ran my rear cable down the left side because I prefer my cables to cross over and I am running 1x10. Bike is all together. Maiden voyage tomorrow.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Quick thread summary for anyone joining late. 

1. There are Chinese frames available
2. There are confusing hub standards
3. The new hub "standard" allows the same hub to work on four different frame standards depending on the end cap used. 
4. For the frame to work with this new hub the caliper mounting point needs to change on some or all frame standards
5. You likely need to use this new hub with the Chinese frame

Please correct me if wrong.


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## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

Or wait untill the standards get sorted out, but I wonder how screwed the 'beta-testers' (me among them) would be. I knew that 'early adoption' is a recipe for trouble, but impatience got better of me .
And besides, the IP-10/FB-02 likely to simply have a error crept in the design.


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

Balor said:


> BTW, I've just checked, and when I position rear wheel with powerway hub as it should be in the dropout with proper endcaps, the rotor SEEMS to align without a hitch.


This sent me hunting for pictures of Powerway 190x12 hubs. I found this one:







It looks like Powerway have added those 3.5mm to the 190mm hub standard and the frame builders have followed this...


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## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

So you are telling me if I order one of these frames, I have to get a specific hub to get my rear wheel to fit in the frame but the brake won't work perfectly? Huh, I am sure the rest of the frame is rock solid....


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## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

No, this seems to be 197mm endcaps - they look exactly like those on my hubs, and they do not fit into 190mm dropouts.
Let me get 190mm endcaps before we make final verdict.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Logantri said:


> So you are telling me if I order one of these frames, I have to get a specific hub to get my rear wheel to fit in the frame but the brake won't work perfectly? Huh, I am sure the rest of the frame is rock solid....


lets see after Balor gets his cups


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## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

UPDATE:
I've finally managed to cram the 197mm hub into my dropouts (usingtoo much force for me to feel comfortable about it, carbon is not titanium, not sure how it would 'like' it when in use) and used the supplied 197mm axle to tighten this.

It all aligned... rather unfortunately. So, while this is 'technically' 190mm frame, you need 197mm rear hub and axle for it, and will have to cram the wheel using excessive force to bend the stays each time.

However, now my cranks, that had millimimeter clearance to the frame, now have none at all 
It seems I need 190mm-rear specific cranks after all - due to outward bend of the stays. 


Now we need to settle for some sort of compensation for this mishap on the seller's part. Shouldn't they have built up at least one frame and seen how it all aligned? 
Anyone explained the situation to Peter?


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

yes they should have tested, but obviously they use buyers to do this. most of the people bought knowing this fact. i chatted with Peter and he admitted issue, said he is communicating with factory.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I bought knowing that the product was new and that I would basically be doing the testing. While many people would be annoyed and angered by the hub compatibility problems, I actually enjoy that experience. Within a few months these issues will be worked out and ready for the masses. Until then, I would recommend buyers wait unless they are comfortable with adding rotor shims, machining rotor mounts down, replacing end caps, modifying end caps, etc.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

cavo said:


> yes they should have tested, but obviously they use buyers to do this. most of the people bought knowing this fact. i chatted with Peter and he admitted issue, said he is communicating with factory.


This is what you call "Open Source" bicycle design. The computer world has been this way for years. I have been a bike engineer Geak since my Avocet Days. What we are doing with Peter, and Sarah, and God knows who is no different than what was transpiring during the 70's and 80's In places like Palo Alto, San Jose, and every other two wheel driven community in the world.


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## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

Unfortunately, such bugs are much harder to fix unless you have access to a machine shop, a carbon lab, and skilled labor... and why would one need to order a frame online if you do, just make your own! Funny in a rather unfunny way if you ask me.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

Balor said:


> Unfortunately, such bugs are much harder to fix unless you have access to a machine shop, a carbon lab, and skilled labor... and why would one need to order a frame online if you do, just make your own! Funny in a rather unfunny way if you ask me.


The guys working in China and elsewhere certainly have access to good materials at low prices. They also have an infinite supply of labor, and they are incredibly good design engineers and process people. They just happen to be four thousand miles away from their test lab! Buying these frames and components, is not something for the person who doesn't want to get their hands dirty.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Balor said:


> Unfortunately, such bugs are much harder to fix unless you have access to a machine shop, a carbon lab, and skilled labor... and why would one need to order a frame online if you do, just make your own! Funny in a rather unfunny way if you ask me.


lol. I fixed the problem with new end caps and a dremel. If the hub had needed machining I would have bribed a machinist friend for a half hour of his time.

Surely you can see how that is much simpler than designing and machining my own molds, acquiring the material, and attempting carbon layup myself. What's funny about that?


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

dfiler said:


> I bought knowing that the product was new and that I would basically be doing the testing. While many people would be annoyed and angered by the hub compatibility problems, I actually enjoy that experience. Within a few months these issues will be worked out and ready for the masses. Until then, I would recommend buyers wait unless they are comfortable with adding rotor shims, machining rotor mounts down, replacing end caps, modifying end caps, etc.


As someone who is a total noob to the fat bike phenomenon, I am extremely grateful for you adventurous souls (pioneers) :thumbsup:. I am still patiently (and not so patiently) awaiting my Night Train from BD. I'd love a carbon frame but can't really make that investment right now :smallviolin:

I'll ride the NT for a while and put away for a Chinese carbon frame. I figure that by the time I get another few ducets tucked away, the kinks will be worked out on these frames.

As I am not as handy as the rest of you all, I would not trust myself to make any mods and survive the ride :ciappa:

I figure I'll know a bit more about what I want from a carbon fat bike frame and shop for a better option for myself.


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## oh2guy (May 20, 2009)

Does anyone have experience ordering a fat bike frame from Feat Bikes? I'm interested in a 170mm frame and they have one I would consider.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Geir68 said:


> This sent me hunting for pictures of Powerway 190x12 hubs. I found this one:
> View attachment 919282
> 
> It looks like Powerway have added those 3.5mm to the 190mm hub standard and the frame builders have followed this...


Doesn't a 190mm hub with 3.5mm added to each end means this is just a regular a 197mm hub???


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Balor said:


> UPDATE:
> Now we need to settle for some sort of compensation for this mishap on the seller's part. Shouldn't they have built up at least one frame and seen how it all aligned?
> Anyone explained the situation to Peter?


I was deciding between this or the BD Sturgis. Went with the Sturgis instead and glad I did as the rear axle standard/hubs were the only part keeping me from going with a Chinese carbon fatty. I feel for you, but if you look at their posted drawings, the frame is built to their published design/specifications. Everyone just made the assumption that the hub manufacturers with a "190mm hub" would fit. And maybe that's where the wrong assumption was made. I'm not sure the sellers "should" be responsible for any compensation as the frames are built to their communicated specs. If they sold you a frame and wheelset and say that they work together, then you have a different case.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

neons97 said:


> Doesn't a 190mm hub with 3.5mm added to each end means this is just a regular a 197mm hub???


Yes. And they move the caliper mounts 3.5mm inward to work with the 190mm hub. That is the essence of the issue.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Got out for the first ride today. The bike performed great with just a couple minor adjustments needed. One thing that does bug me is the amount of rattle from the internal cables. I'll find a way to quiet it down.


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

dvn said:


> Got out for the first ride today. The bike performed great with just a couple minor adjustments needed. One thing that does bug me is the amount of rattle from the internal cables. I'll find a way to quiet it down.
> 
> View attachment 919392


I am in love! Are those powerway hubs? What cranks are you running?


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

neons97 said:


> Everyone just made the assumption that the hub manufacturers with a "190mm hub" would fit.


Of course we did! Thats why we have standards, to make things fit together. 
As long as they didn't specify "proprietary 190mm hub" or similar, the buyers had to assume the frame fit the current standard of hubs.

You argue that buyers knew what they bought due to the frame drawing. The drawing leaked by [email protected] in this thread are not shown on Xmiplay page for the IP-010 frame or on the Speedercycle page for the FB-02 frame.

The fact that both sellers have admitted the problem and the factory are modifying the mold to fit current standard prove that we have bought a flawed product.

But I´m unsure what level of compensation we deserve? Free stickers? A new frame?Or something in between?
We paid a quarter of the original Corvous frame price and the only drawback is that we have to use some force to insert the rear wheel into the frame. This still sounds like a good deal


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

dvn said:


> One thing that does bug me is the amount of rattle from the internal cables.


Have you drilled out the cable stops and running full length housing? Or is it the hydraulic hose in the downtube causing the rattle?


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Geir68 said:


> Have you drilled out the cable stops and running full length housing? Or is it the hydraulic hose in the downtube causing the rattle?


Both!


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

davedivided said:


> I am in love! Are those powerway hubs? What cranks are you running?


Chosen hubs. X9 crank with 30T narrow/wide chainring. WT 42 out back.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

I never once thought these frames were going to work with anything but this new 4in1 hub standard. At least half the posts in this thread are about the hubs!


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## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

No, this is not the hubs, this is an error in frame design.
I've build it up finally, but the rear caliper still refuses to align properly and drags constantly 
Some modification will still be needed, unfortunately.
But otherwise I love it, still to ride it - it is raining out here, but will get better in a few hours.









Sorry for blurry pic, mobile.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Balor said:


> No, this is not the hubs, this is an error in frame design.
> I've build it up finally, but the rear caliper still refuses to align properly and drags constantly
> Some modification will still be needed, unfortunately.
> But otherwise I love it, still to ride it - it is raining out here, but will get better in a few hours.
> ...


You need to install the spacers. I also had to dremel the mounting slot in the caliper a bit to allow further adjustment. All good now.


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## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

Without spacers it would not fit at all. I guess I'll have dremel the slot as well, but I lack the dremel. I guess I'll ask around for one.


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## Yetiski (Nov 15, 2010)

If there is still a 177 x 12 carbon frame out there could someone post me a link. All the Chinese carbon frames I have been finding are the 190 / 197 ones. Trying to use an existing wheelset.


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## Greg_o (Mar 22, 2012)

Gigantic said:


> They're manufacturing subcontractors who build bikes for other companies. They've discovered that they can add to their income stream by selling unbranded product to individuals. Some of the individuals that companies like this sell to, actually start their own brands; Lamere springs to mind as an example. Mostly though, these websites aren't there for us, the end user, they're B2B sites to market their wares to small brands worldwide in quantities of 100pc or more.


Cheers to you for explaining that to me!


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

Balor said:


> Without spacers it would not fit at all. I guess I'll have dremel the slot as well, but I lack the dremel. I guess I'll ask around for one.


Rather than dremel the slots, a first step would be to machine or dremel the last 2 or three threads closest to the head of the cap screw. That will give you about another Mil or mil and a half of adjustment with impact to the screw or caliper.


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## Milo-Bar (Aug 20, 2014)

dfiler said:


> I bought knowing that the product was new and that I would basically be doing the testing. While many people would be annoyed and angered by the hub compatibility problems, I actually enjoy that experience. Within a few months these issues will be worked out and ready for the masses. Until then, I would recommend buyers wait unless they are comfortable with adding rotor shims, machining rotor mounts down, replacing end caps, modifying end caps, etc.


Things seem to have quietened down a bit...

As an IP-010 owner with Chosen 190mm hubs I have dropped the frame, hub, disk and cluster into my local machine shop.

The brief: To fabricate new end caps and if required mill the rotor mount.

We'll trial whether a 5mm end cap (making the hub 199mm) can be jammed into the rear 190 spacing. But it's likely we'll mill the mounts...

Once this is done there will be a path in their machine for milling any new end caps.
They could be posted round the globe.

Are there many folks out there needing new end caps for converting chosen hubs from 190 to 197mm?


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Milo-Bar said:


> Things seem to have quietened down a bit...
> 
> As an IP-010 owner with Chosen 190mm hubs I have dropped the frame, hub, disk and cluster into my local machine shop.
> 
> ...


I'd be in for a set. The spacers that I have work but it would be nice to have one piece end caps that slide into the dropout slots rather than having to hold everything lined up when inserting the axle. Especially at times like these:


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Following this thread I'm kind of glad I cancelled mine


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

dvn said:


> I'd be in for a set. The spacers that I have work but it would be nice to have one piece end caps that slide into the dropout slots rather than having to hold everything lined up when inserting the axle. Especially at times like these:
> View attachment 920210


dvn, what material did you use for down tube protector?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Despite this thread, I'm still thinking of building up a light 190mm fatty in the spring. The pictures of built bikes is making me think about this hard, they look great.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

cavo said:


> dvn, what material did you use for down tube protector?


I used two LizardSkinz leather downtube protectors and cut the second one to fill in the wider area by the bottom bracket.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

brankulo said:


> and so this is not the issue on 170mm rear of this same frame? or is it?


its a issue.got my hubs today.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

mortenste said:


> its a issue.got my hubs today.


What hubs?


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

tune fat king/kong


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## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

Ok guys, frame and wheels arrived from Dengfu, the rear hub is a 190x12 and the frame is 197 spaced. 2x 3.5mm spacers have been provided as advised. I've fitted them either side of the hub and the disc clears the calliper mount by what looks visually the same as on my Chinese carbon 29er so I am expecting the brake to function without issue. Here is the pic. More info and pics to follow as build progresses


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

again, dengfu frame is not the same as the one with rear issue


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## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

cavo said:


> again, dengfu frame is not the same as the one with rear issue


I was posting for info purposes, this way people can add this frame a list of frames without the rear issue.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

How much was the dengfu frame? Any side shots of the frame?


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## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

Jisch said:


> How much was the dengfu frame? Any side shots of the frame?


The frame was $480 plus $115 shipping to uk, arrived in customs in 4 days but took an age to get through there due to public holiday. Here's another one, I can do more detailed ones when I am building up, still waiting on some bits though.


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

This thread is about Chinese carbon fatbike frames(not IP-010).
@Jay_RigidRide:
Does the Dengfu frame have a tube inside the frame for the rear brake hose? I have a 26" FR-215 frame with this, and this eliminate the rattle from the brake hose, and simplify the installation.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Geir68 said:


> This thread is about Chinese carbon fatbike frames(not IP-010).


Huh??? The IP-010 *is* a Chinese carbon fatbike! Unless you are trying to say, not _just_ the IP-010.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

dvn said:


> Huh??? The IP-010 *is* a Chinese carbon fatbike!


 +1


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Dengfu looks nice. And it looks like it actally works without the need for a lot of McGuyvering. Might be on my wish list.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Yeah, kinda wish I had waited a bit. I bought from Peter because of all the positive comments about him but he has not responded to my questions regarding the IP-010 rear spacing. Don't think I'll be buying from him again.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

i heard back from xmiplay, the factory is adjusting the design on IP-010 and will developing special part to fix the issue on frames already made. this is what i could understand from the email they sent.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

this dengfu frame seems similar to ip-018, doesnt look exactly the same though. still like ip-010 design the best from all the chinese fattys so far. i also heard from sarah (speedercycling), that my ip-010 frame will arrive with modified stays. will see. i also heard of the part that is supposed to fix frames already produced with "rear issue".


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## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

Geir68 said:


> This thread is about Chinese carbon fatbike frames(not IP-010).
> @Jay_RigidRide:
> Does the Dengfu frame have a tube inside the frame for the rear brake hose? I have a 26" FR-215 frame with this, and this eliminate the rattle from the brake hose, and simplify the installation.


I will have a Look inside the frame if I can but it doesn't have the plastic guide tubes for threading the cable through that my Chinese 29er had. Although the brake hose fitted quite tightly on that one so hope it will be similar in this one.


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## noniinno (Dec 19, 2006)

I ordered my chinese fatty frame and wheels from ebay, made by ICAN bikes. SN01 Fat bike frame 2014 BB shell 120mm - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

I asked them some proof of frame/brakes/cranks compatibility and they sent me videos of the bike building. I haven't got my frame yet, but wheels come in two weeks and frame is on its way to Finland. Customer service is excellent by mr? Chen. Hope everything goes ok. If there is troubles with frame, I´ll write again.

Just wonder about these videos, they are pro builders, why they have no any torque tools...:nono:

ICAN wrote:
Attahed some video about fatbike frame and wheelset to you,hope that can help you.

ICAN Carbon Fatbike Frameset- install bottom bracket 01






ICAN Fatbike Frameset install Crankset 02






ICAN Fatbike Frameset install chain 03






ICAN Fatbike Framset install front and rear Disc brake cable 04





ICAN Fatbike Frameset Test front disc brake 05





ICAN Fatbike Frameset Test rear disc brake 06






ICAN Fatbike Frameset test rear derailleur 07





ICAN Fatbike frameset test front derailleur 08


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## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

The sn01 and ip018 seem to be the same. All sizes in both their geo charts are the same


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Ican just raised the bar with marketing and support. I love it! Thanks for sharing. 

FYI - those hubs are the powerway 4n1.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Anyone know which Chinese seller has a copy of the KHS Carbon: 2015 ? KHS ? 4 Season Fat Bike Line Up | FAT-BIKE.COM

Love the look of this frame. I have a BD Night Train on order but wouldn't mind swapping out frames down the road. Thanks.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

q2cycling, but they will not ship to north america


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

brankulo said:


> q2cycling, but they will not ship to north america


Well, that's disappointing to hear :skep:. I live in NorCal.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

there are ways around, this frame is almost double what you would pay for other chinese frames though.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

brankulo said:


> there are ways around, this frame is almost double what you would pay for other chinese frames though.


Well, that's disappointing to hear :skep: as well.

What about a 9:zero:7 or Framed Alaskan Carbon copy? Something about the swoopy top tube that just works for me. :thumbsup:

I'd need it to be Bluto compatible and 190/197 spacing in the rear...I want to be a direct swap for my Night Train frame.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

yes, thats the frame, exactly same as framed alaskan, very simillar to 907 whiteout. it is the frame dfiler has. he was able to purchase before it was locked in by framed i guess, or khs.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

brankulo said:


> yes, thats the frame, exactly same as framed alaskan, very simillar to 907 whiteout. it is the frame dfiler has. he was able to purchase before it was locked in by framed i guess, or khs.


Can you point me in a direction (links for reliable, reputable sellers w/good customer service) for Chinese carbon frame that is Bluto compatible and with 190/197 spacing in the rear? Thanks.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Fourth ride today. Bike performed flawlessly.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i would like to see that badge close-up if possible


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## TLundberg (Sep 5, 2013)

My fatty is slowly coming together. Still waiting for crankset, tires and a few small parts


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

brankulo said:


> i would like to see that badge close-up if possible


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dvn said:


> View attachment 921294


really nice, thanks man


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

TLundberg said:


> My fatty is slowly coming together. Still waiting for crankset, tires and a few small parts


i hope you don't hurt yourself with that seat post.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

dvn that badge is fitting for a Chinese rip off, not meant to be a slam. kinda a ripoff of a ripoff


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

That's sweet!


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## fstfrd15 (Dec 28, 2007)

TLundberg said:


> My fatty is slowly coming together. Still waiting for crankset, tires and a few small parts
> 
> Which frame is that? Does the Bluto clear the down tube? Frame size?


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## ak greeff (May 21, 2008)

Do you guys not feel bad for buying these chineese carbon ripoffs of other people's design? Do you realize that the people designing some of these bikes (Speedway Cycles Corvus and 907 Carbon bikes) are small mom and pop outfits who have put their heart and soles into their companies, doing all the R&D and investing all of their time, energy, and finaces to bring you advancements in fat-biking? The carbon 907 and Corvus have barely been on the marked a year and now their sales are being under cut by cheap copies. Do you think these companies will be able to afford to continue to push the design and better the fat-biking world if we all buy copies and undercut their profit margins, all to save a buck? I don't own a carbon fat bike yet but will continue to save my money untill I can afford to support the little guys with huge heart!


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

ak greeff said:


> Do you guys not feel bad for buying these chineese carbon ripoffs of other people's design? Do you realize that the people designing some of these bikes (Speedway Cycles Corvus and 907 Carbon bikes) are small mom and pop outfits who have put their heart and soles into their companies, doing all the R&D and investing all of their time, energy, and finaces to bring you advancements in fat-biking? The carbon 907 and Corvus have barely been on the marked a year and now their sales are being under cut by cheap copies. Do you think these companies will be able to afford to continue to push the design and better the fat-biking world if we all buy copies and undercut their profit margins, all to save a buck? I don't own a carbon fat bike yet but will continue to save my money untill I can afford to support the little guys with huge heart!


Well said!

--Lars


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

nice badge indeed, have to come up with something for mine


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

ak greeff said:


> Do you guys not feel bad for buying these chineese carbon ripoffs of other people's design?


If these where a one to one copy I would feel that I ripped off the original designer, but that's not the case. These "copies" only have the same visual appearance. The fact that we bought a frame with a design-error clearly show this. 
The frame geometry doesn't mach between the original and the copy.
Example:
Corvous frame chain stay : 460mm 
IP-010 fram chain stay : 445mm


----------



## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

hmm, i measured the ip-018 yesterday, compared the geometryto my current pugsley. Interesting to see how similair the measurments are ! (appart from the 120mm bb and 197mm rear spacing).

So its more of a question who's copying who....


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

OnThaCouch said:


> Can you point me in a direction (links for reliable, reputable sellers w/good customer service) for Chinese carbon frame that is Bluto compatible and with 190/197 spacing in the rear? Thanks.


i only have previous experience dealing with xmiplay, nextie and now speedercycling.
bought frame from xmiplay and fat rims from nextie. had no issue with either one. they respond promptly and english is very decent. i bought my fat frame from speeder, as they were first to have it available, which in fact was not the case i am finding out. have been waiting over 30 days, still dont have the frame. i was told 30-35 day so hoping i am getting close. communication is so so, you get your answer next day, if you can decipher it.


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## GazaTron (Jul 20, 2009)

Are other guys or girls running the bluto on the fb02 speeder cycling frame?
I see Tlundberg above is but not quite finished.... Trying to work out what headangle you end up with and how things handle and how it rides with the bluto...


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## ak greeff (May 21, 2008)

Geir68 said:


> If these where a one to one copy I would feel that I ripped off the original designer, but that's not the case. These "copies" only have the same visual appearance. The fact that we bought a frame with a design-error clearly show this.
> The frame geometry doesn't mach between the original and the copy.
> Example:
> Corvous frame chain stay : 460mm
> IP-010 fram chain stay : 445mm


The same visual apperance? I'd say, right down to the paint scheme! Look at the blue bike behind the green one. Notice the fork?

SOC14: FatBack?s Corvus Fat bike Makes an appearance in Carbon


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ak greeff said:


> The same visual apperance? I'd say, right down to the paint scheme! Look at the blue bike behind the green one. Notice the fork?
> 
> SOC14: FatBack?s Corvus Fat bike Makes an appearance in Carbon


man, corvus fork looks totally different


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## GazaTron (Jul 20, 2009)

Okay was lucky enough to test fit a bluto into the speedercycling frame and the crown doesn't clear the downtube when the bars are turned past 180 degree's...... So back to the drawing board... anyone here running a chinese carbon frame with bluto with out issue? Or to much of geometry change with the longer axle to crown length of the bluto (511MM)
and if so could you point me in the right direction please


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

GazaTron said:


> Okay was lucky enough to test fit a bluto into the speedercycling frame and the crown doesn't clear the downtube when the bars are turned past 180 degree's...... So back to the drawing board... anyone here running a chinese carbon frame with bluto with out issue? Or to much of geometry change with the longer axle to crown length of the bluto (511MM)
> and if so could you point me in the right direction please


ok, please elaborate as it makes no sense. if you can turn handlebar 180 deg, it means the crown clears, doesnt it?


----------



## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

Hi all. I'm new to your forum, but have been a regular visitor for quite some time. I've been following this thread with great interest.

Firstly: Thanks to all who have been so pioneering in the testing of the Chinese carbon fatbikes and rims. :thumbsup:

Secondly: My small contribution. I've contacted Peter of XmiPlay about the IP-010, as I'm quite interested in buying one once the spacing issue has been resolved. He replied to my e-mail yesterday and confirmed that they are working on the frame mold. He says corrected frames will be available in 20-25 days. I replied to his e-mail, asking what they are doing to fix the problem - 197mm rear or other modifications. Will post that info as soon as I receive his reply.


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## GazaTron (Jul 20, 2009)

cavo said:


> ok, please elaborate as it makes no sense. if you can turn handlebar 180 deg, it means the crown clears, doesnt it?


No I mean the top of each fork leg (crown) hits the down tube if you try spin the bars past 90 degrees sorry... Sure general riding you never turn bars that far but if you crash or the bike falls over or anything where the front wheel is going to spin it's going to damage the under side of the down tube near where it meets the head tube..... It's ineviTable


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

GazaTron said:


> No I mean the top of each fork leg (crown) hits the down tube if you try spin the bars past 90 degrees sorry... Sure general riding you never turn bars that far but if you crash or the bike falls over or anything where the front wheel is going to spin it's going to damage the under side of the down tube near where it meets the head tube..... It's ineviTable


Depending on how much more clearance is needed, that can in some cases be fixed by fitting either a taller headset crown race or a taller lower headset cup. It will alter the head angle slightly so needs be taken into consideration.


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## genefruit (Feb 24, 2011)

Acros Blocklock headset BLOCKLOCK - ACROS


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

genefruit said:


> Acros Blocklock headset BLOCKLOCK - ACROS


i think in case of bike crush, the force might be too strong for those tiny stops to work.


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## genefruit (Feb 24, 2011)

Here's a better picture for those who are interested in the Block lock Other New Goodies from Acros ? Block Lock Headset, Shot Peened 29er Wheels, More!


----------



## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

2bliss said:


> I've contacted Peter of XmiPlay about the IP-010, as I'm quite interested in buying one once the spacing issue has been resolved. He replied to my e-mail yesterday and confirmed that they are working on the frame mold. He says corrected frames will be available in 20-25 days. I replied to his e-mail, asking what they are doing to fix the problem - 197mm rear or other modifications. Will post that info as soon as I receive his reply.


Peter has confirmed that the frame will still be available with either 170 or 190mm rear spacing. They are working on the disc mount positioning to address the clearance issue.


----------



## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

*Dengfu build update*

Hey guys,
Update on the build, everything is done except for the front wheel, just waiting for that to clear customs.

Spec: 
Dengfu FM190 17.5" frame and fork
80mm carbon wheels with chosen through axle hubs 190mm rear 135mm front

Building it up wasn't a cake walk as the bb threads weren't brilliant and needed cleaning up, but other than that I am extremely pleased with the frame and fork. Quality is excellent. Not sure on weight as yet as no front wheel but it feels super light. Will post up final pic when wheel arrives.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

can you post side view? wandering if top tube has slight curve to it. looks like it does.


----------



## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Any chain rub on dropout/frame when in the smallest cog?


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

*Ltk010*

Any experience out there on the LTK010?
I'm leaning towards the 170mm version. Maybe even adding their suspension fork.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

aizu1 said:


> Any experience out there on the LTK010?
> I'm leaning towards the 170mm version. Maybe even adding their suspension fork.
> View attachment 923661


dude, are you not reading this thread?


----------



## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

brankulo said:


> dude, are you not reading this thread?


You must be joking, right?

In 46 pages of opinions, comparisons, hub issues, etc., there is not one photo or review of a LTK010 (except the pic from the Shanghai trade show back in April). So thus far, it appears that not a single person on this forum has actually purchased a fat bike from LT Bike. Is that right? If not, who did and where is the review? And more specifically, 170mm frame.

Lots of FMs, FB, IP010 (both the 170 and the 190). Is the IP010 the same frame as the LTK010?, not sure, but likely.

So 2 people have ordered the IP010 with 170mm - Trevorr and Campykid. No updates yet. Looking forward to hear what they have to say when they start their builds.

I see the issues with the spacing on the 190mm, are there any issue with the 170/177mm in regards to the std hubs and brake rotors? This would be good to know before ordering a frame. I don't want to play McGiver.

More than 2 years ago I bought a 29er carbon from LT. No issues with payment or delivery. But a couple weeks ago I cracked the frame. It's beyond warranty, but they offered me a discount on another frame, hence the thought to go for a Fatty.

So, once again, where the reviews for the LTK010? Anybody?


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

same frame, same issue on 170mmm, Morten has built one, check out his thread.
not joking btw


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

+1


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

mortenste said:


> +1


Mortenste, I followed your build. Pretty sweet. I like the white frame. But isn't your frame a FB02? Is this made by LT? This I'm not aware of BTW.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

aizu, these sellers dont make frames. they just sell. each uses their own name for the very same frame.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

just changing model number or codes.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

so, the fm190 on ebay doesn't have the same 190 hub issue. that the previous frame in this thread does.


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## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

brankulo said:


> aizu, these sellers dont make frames. they just sell. each uses their own name for the very same frame.


That is my understanding as well. The Hong Fu appears to be a different frame however.

My IP-010 170mm has not yet arrived, but I did inquire with Peter if the rear spacing issue was going to be a problem with my frame. The response I received was "Don't worry about that, our factory is improving the frame mould and news frames will be all suitable". I didn't ask when it will be shipped... 
Will update the forum when I get it. I'm hoping it plays nice with Hope Fatsno hubs and the Bluto.


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

I have ordered a xmiplay 170mm frame just before the 'rear spacing fiasco' was discovered. The new and improved frames will be ready to ship after Chinese national holiday (first week in October).


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

*My Chinese Carbon Fat Bike*

Built - Ridden - Amazing
Build went well. Had to add washers to the brakes at the frame mounts to get the brakes to work how I wanted. Not a fan of the Carbon Handlebar that came with it... too narrow for a Fat Bike. Switched to Easton Havoc. Also not a fan or the set back seat post. Hard to get level and the set back causes my inner knee to his the frame. Solution was to move the saddle as far forward as possible. Might switch the seat post out eventually, but it is fine for now. No issues with the BB threads. Fork Set up was simple. I did have to swap the vale cap from top to the bottom to keep from hitting the down tube (just barely, but left a scratch.
Wheels are true and tubeless set up was the easiest I have had in a long time. Used Gorilla Tape as a rim strip. Chosen Hubs are running very smooth. Rear is a bit loud, but I like it.
On the trail, the bike flies. Geometry is perfect for the riding I like. Actually chose this frame because the head angle and seat tube angle are close to my custom bike.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

i was told end of this month but that was a while ago.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

JonL said:


> Built - Ridden - Amazing
> Build went well. Had to add washers to the brakes at the frame mounts to get the brakes to work how I wanted. Not a fan of the Carbon Handlebar that came with it... too narrow for a Fat Bike. Switched to Easton Havoc. No issues with the BB threads. Fork Set up was simple. I did have to swap the vale cap from top to the bottom to keep from hitting the down tube (just barely, but left a scratch.
> On the trail, the bike flies. Geometry is perfect for the riding I like. Actually chose this frame because the head angle and seat tube angle are close to my custom bike.
> View attachment 924229


so does this frame has same rear brake mount issue?
what is the weight on that puppy?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

JonL said:


> Fork Set up was simple.


Is that one of those China direct forks? First one I've seen.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Not really a mount issue, I just could not get the caliper dialed in just right. The tiniest of washers fixed it, just to give that extra bit of caliper height. Weight on my crappy luggage scale is a whopping 22lbs


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

22lbs, wow, pretty goood with that fork. rims are 65mm?


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

It is! I was hesitant, but it is built very well. Scariest part is the carbon steer tube, curious to see how long it last. I used a torque wrench as to not over tighten.


Jisch said:


> Is that one of those China direct forks? First one I've seen.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Rims are 80mm. I had seen 65mm, 90mm and 100mm. I felt 80 was the best for what and how I want to ride.


brankulo said:


> 22lbs, wow, pretty goood with that fork. rims are 65mm?


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Nice bike  but yes,i think your scale is crappy ;-)


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

I promise to update this more accurately in another day or two. It is lighter than my 27.5 Ti bike though.


mortenste said:


> Nice bike  but yes,i think your scale is crappy ;-)


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

JonL said:


> Not really a mount issue, I just could get the caliper dialed in just right. The tiniest of washers fixed it, just to give that extra bit of caliper height. Weight on my crappy luggage scale is a whopping 22lbs


What hubs?


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

adroit rider said:


> what hubs?


chosen


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## rdrever (Jul 24, 2014)

*Surly Lou doesn't fit 190mm IP-010 frame*

I just found out the hard way that the Surly Lou does NOT fit the IP-010 190mm frame, the corner knobs of the tire rub the angled section of the chain stays. This is with 80mm iPlay carbon rims set up tubeless.


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## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

rdrever said:


> I just found out the hard way that the Surly Lou does NOT fit the IP-010 190mm frame, the corner knobs of the tire rub the angled section of the chain stays. This is with 80mm iPlay carbon rims set up tubeless.


Oh man, that sucks! Probably means 4.8 Jumbo Jims on 90mm Nexties won't work either :madman:


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

That's too bad. I guess I don't stand a chance with 170mm frame/ JJ 4.8 on ML rim. And I just got order confirmation on JJ's...


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

I am deciding on what frame to get (if going chinese carbon), and I have read this thread throughout, but I have some unanswered queries.
- Anyone built up an F-FB01/IP-018 and mounted Lou or Vee Snowshoe XL?
- Anyone built up the same frame and encountered the same clearance issues as on the F-FB02/IP-010 with regards to 11T cog and rotor?

I have made some calculations, and it seems to be more or less the same fit on the two bikes, as the fork is somewhat longer in the F-FB01 geo. With a 10mm spacer on F-FB02, the stack and reach should be similar, I think. That is when comparing 20" F-FB01 and 19" F-FB02. 

I am tempted to go for the F-FB01 for the following reasons:
- slacker HA
- true 197x12(?) rear
- (no reported known issues with clearance)
- 120mm BB (more future proof?)
- the post that Lou won't fit IP-010...
- better looks...

I am tempted to go for F-FB02 (190mm) for the following reasons:
- lower standover
- 100mm BB (Easier to find cranks - if they do not rub the chainstays, narrower Q factor for better pedaling position)
- clearance issues solved(?)

My main focus will be winter use on singletrack more or less packed from hikers and occational use on prepped surface. I will fit an RS Bluto 100mm (or 120mm if it won't raise the BB too much). The bike will also serve as a nr. 2 bike for summer and may be some XC/Marathon races for the fun of it. If i find the funding, I will be going for some carbon rims in xx width...

maybe I should have made a separate thread, but I think the resourceful people following this thread can point me in the right direction.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

rdrever said:


> I just found out the hard way that the Surly Lou does NOT fit the IP-010 190mm frame, the corner knobs of the tire rub the angled section of the chain stays. This is with 80mm iPlay carbon rims set up tubeless.
> 
> View attachment 924334


Yeah, I was pretty certain just by looking that my studded Lou was not going to fit. Knowing that 45NRTH tires seem to run kinda narrow, I pre-ordered some Dillinger 5's. If that doesn't fit, I'll run a 4 in the rear and 5 in the front. Another option is to shave down the knobs if they are _just_ touching.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

so how bad is the corner knob rub? hard to say from the image


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

thats too bad, i have bud and lou already home waiting. i based my assumption that lou fits based on info on this site, but now giving it a second look, looks like there is a fiting issue.
if it is just a slight rub i wouldnt mind shaweing side knobs for riding in snow.
otherwise something rounder or ground control 2,6 hopefully works in rear.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

based on the size info for Lou i sketched the tire profile over frame drawing. some overlap with side knobs, substantial portion of them would have to go to clear. not a big deal just for snow riding, could be a problem on dirt.

image hosting no account

thats the price we pay for shorter stays


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## Nuhtelija (Sep 12, 2014)

What frames works without issues?
Dengfu FM190
Is there any else?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

better check the FM190 drawing for known issues to be sure


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

so what rear tire on what rims are people running with ip-010 frame? trying to figure out the largest one that fits, for snow riding


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

cavo said:


> so what rear tire on what rims are people running with ip-010 frame? trying to figure out the largest one that fits, for snow riding


So far I've used an On One Floater and a Husker DU on an 80mm rim with room to spare. If and when my Dillinger 5's arrive, I'll post results on it's fitment.

On a side note, the Husker DU's are night and day better than the Floaters! Roll WAY faster, have no funky steering characteristics and ride better at the same psi. Winner!


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

i am really interested in fitting large tires as this is going to be primarily winter bike. going to try to see if i can cancel my order, but i doubt it.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

*More photos*

Some additional photo for those that have asked.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Hi JonL

Could you possibly do a "mini review" of that fork please ? 
Most interested in the weight I suppose. Closely followed by performance. Have you had any experience of a Bluto to compare it to ? What adjustments can be made to the fork? How much flex is there in the fork as it doesn't seem to be of a burly construction, but that could be an optical illusion due to the size of the tyres I'm guessing ? 

Sorry for all the questions JonL but you're the first person I have seen or heard of that has the mythical Chinese fork. 
Also one last thing what was the price too.

TIA


Fat Biker


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Weight is about 3 lbs. There are 2 air adjustments, one top one bottom. There is a rebound adjusted. Lock, pedal, and unlock. Does it flex? If I watch it, yes, but I do not feel it on the trail. I have it set up a bit stiff, there is"suspension" from the tire, so I am still playing with the set up. 
No experience with a Bluto, but it feels like any other xc fork I have used.



Fat Biker said:


> Hi JonL
> 
> Could you possibly do a "mini review" of that fork please ?
> Most interested in the weight I suppose. Closely followed by performance. Have you had any experience of a Bluto to compare it to ? What adjustments can be made to the fork? How much flex is there in the fork as it doesn't seem to be of a burly construction, but that could be an optical illusion due to the size of the tyres I'm guessing ?
> ...


----------



## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Specs on the frame... mine is 16"


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Specs for the fancier frame. No 16" option, and I did not fit the longer TT.


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## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

Two questions about the IP-010: 

1) Anyone running 2x10? If so, what adapter is needed to mount the front derailleur in the correct position?

2) Please pardon my noobness, but I find the bottom bracket standards very confusing. I see Raceface has two fatbike BBs. The Cinch one seems to be the one that would be compatible with the frame, but it is (if I understand correctly) only compatible with the Cinch crank and not the less expensive ones? Sram have X1 for fatbikes, but the BB options won't be compatible with this frame?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

JonL said:


> Weight is about 3 lbs. There are 2 air adjustments, one top one bottom. There is a rebound adjusted. Lock, pedal, and unlock. Does it flex? If I watch it, yes, but I do not feel it on the trail. I have it set up a bit stiff, there is"suspension" from the tire, so I am still playing with the set up.
> No experience with a Bluto, but it feels like any other xc fork I have used.


Thanks for that JonL muchly appreciated.

If you don't mind me asking how much was your fat suspension fork please ?

Thanks

Andrew


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

Last night I machined spacers for the "tight-ass" IP-010 frame. The dimensions are OD19mm, ID12mm. I tried to make them as thin as possible to minimize the spreading of the chain stays. 
I ended up with 3.7mm on the rotor side and 2.5mm on the cassette side.


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## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

JonL said:


> Weight is about 3 lbs. There are 2 air adjustments, one top one bottom. There is a rebound adjusted. Lock, pedal, and unlock. Does it flex? If I watch it, yes, but I do not feel it on the trail. I have it set up a bit stiff, there is"suspension" from the tire, so I am still playing with the set up.
> No experience with a Bluto, but it feels like any other xc fork I have used.


How much and where did you get if from?
Also, REALLY 3 lbs? This is on par with the lightest all-carbon forks out there. Perhaps 4, like the bluto?
Is it 135x15?


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Catalog specs have it a 1300 grams, mine was sitting at 1400 before I cut the steerer down. The lowers are carbon, the crown is carbon, and the steerer is carbon. Fork is light.
Price should run you under $400 plus shipping. 
I have bought from them before and got the multiple item price.


Balor said:


> How much and where did you get if from?
> Also, REALLY 3 lbs? This is on par with the lightest all-carbon forks out there. Perhaps 4, like the bluto?
> Is it 135x15?


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Jay_RigidRide said:


> Hey guys,
> Update on the build, everything is done except for the front wheel, just waiting for that to clear customs.
> 
> Spec:
> ...


any chance they provided technical drawing showing yoke size? trying to figure out how big of a tire it will take.


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

JonL said:


> Catalog specs have it a 1300 grams, mine was sitting at 1400 before I cut the steerer down. The lowers are carbon, the crown is carbon, and the steerer is carbon. Fork is light.
> Price should run you under $400 plus shipping.
> I have bought from them before and got the multiple item price.


1400g confirmed for an uncut fat bike fork ????

Now *THAT *for one has me impressed :cornut:

Looks like it could be a tapered steerer too ?

For a carbon lower/steerer dual air fork $400 is an absolute *BARGIN *!

Hell if it turns out to be reliable and durable (I have no reason to doubt this) $1000 dollars would even be reasonable considering the prices some top manufacturers wanna charge .

Be sure to keep us informed please JonL 

Fat Biker


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

That is lighter than the lightest mass produced/(OEM friendly) 29er fork on the market (SID XX World Cup). (unfortunate that DT hasn't yet made a 29er /650b version of their 1150g XRC Race.
In addition, it is less money than a *bike brand *would expect to pay *OEM* for a fork with that weight/material choice.
In other words, a crazy bargain. 
I would want to see some documentation like CEN approval tests before I rode it, though.

Additional info: OEM price is the lowest price level, and is the (sometimes close to subsidized) price that bike brands pay for components, etc.
Next on the ladder is distributor price, then dealer price and retail price as the most expensive.

In the case of the Chinese carbon frames and this fork in particular, the retail price offered to anyone is very close to and sometimes actually below the OEM price. Could be various reasons for this.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Espen W said:


> *That is lighter than the lightest mass produced*/(OEM friendly) 29er fork on the market (SID XX World Cup). (unfortunate that DT hasn't yet made a 29er /650b version of their 1150g XRC Race.
> In addition, it is *less money than* a bike brand would expect to pay OEM for a fork with that weight/material choice.
> In other words, a crazy bargain.
> I would want to see some documentation like* CEN approval tests before I rode it*, though.


Lighter than anything available and cheaper. I'm not saying it'll explode, but I personally won't be betting my face that it won't.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

JonL said:


> Catalog specs have it a 1300 grams, mine was sitting at 1400 before I cut the steerer down. The lowers are carbon, the crown is carbon, and the steerer is carbon. Fork is light.
> Price should run you under $400 plus shipping.
> I have bought from them before and got the multiple item price.


Does sound pretty impressive! One concern I'd have is when it comes time to service the internals of the fork. Are service documentation and parts (seals, bushings, etc) readily available?


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

kwarwick said:


> Does sound pretty impressive! One concern I'd have is when it comes time to service the internals of the fork. Are service documentation and parts (seals, bushings, etc) readily available?


Good point. 
Spares/rebuildability (is that a word ?) / servicing. 
I hadn't thought about that. 
Wouldn't it be awesome if it used big brand internals/seals and such ?
I suppose it wouldn't be unheard of for a Chinese manufacturer to do this. 
Here's hoping 

Fat Biker


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Fat Biker said:


> Good point.
> Spares/rebuildability (is that a word ?) / servicing.
> I hadn't thought about that.
> Wouldn't it be awesome if it used big brand internals/seals and such ?
> ...


None of the big name manufacturers make their own seals or o-rings.
They buy them....and they don't always buy the best.
Anyone with a little mechanical ability can find alternatives that are as good or better than OEM seals
Same with bearings and many other parts.


----------



## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

Yea, it sure sounds like a good deal! Not as cool-looking as black ano Bluto, but lighter by a pound, cheaper and you can just swap it for a rigid one for the winter w/o a separate wheelset.
Seems to have tons of clearance for tall tires, too. Do you suppose it will clear 29+ tires?


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

the mayor said:


> None of the big name manufacturers make their own seals or o-rings.
> They buy them....and they don't always buy the best.
> Anyone with a little mechanical ability can find alternatives that are as good or better than OEM seals
> Same with bearings and many other parts.


I think its fair to assume that they haven't designed their own internals, but probably "borrowed" a big name company's design. Knowing who would tell us a lot more about parts availability and probable reliability. Just guessing looking at the reverse arch it could be Manitou or DT Swiss.


----------



## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Good point. I wonder if the fork is a result of a shelved project by one of the big names.

I checked the technical drawing of one of the upcoming forks from a big name against the above , and it does not match, not surprisingly, as they run front mounted arches on their wares.


----------



## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

Likely Rock Shox, dual air is mostly their area.
Reverse arch has nothing to do with internals.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

the mayor said:


> None of the big name manufacturers make their own seals or o-rings.
> They buy them....and they don't always buy the best.
> Anyone with a little mechanical ability can find alternatives that are as good or better than OEM seals
> Same with bearings and many other parts.


Sorry if I wasn't too clear Mayor . 
I was trying to infer that a well known branded part would be easier to source , and hopefully cheaper due to the volumes they're manufactured in , than a lesser known Chinese "un" branded one would be .

As with most things these days *most* things are made in the far east under license anyway . 
So to me buying from China et al is no problem at all .
I for one try not to refer to things bike related (at least) being manufactured in Asia as a slight against the part or company .

P.S. I have been using the unbranded bearing replacement for years with varying success from a local supplier .

Fat Biker

P.P.S. Sorry for the O/T back to the currently scheduled programme


----------



## skiinnyboy (Mar 12, 2013)

*Ip-10 iplay headset problem*

Hey there I just finished the ip-10 build. After installing the headset (iplay) I noticed it either binds or there's play in it no matter how little I back off the tension. I'm looking for some help. Anyone use this headset? Does it work in the frame/fork? I cannot figure out what the problem would be. I have 2 spacers above as to be able to tension it properly but still has play. Help please!


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

skiinnyboy said:


> Hey there I just finished the ip-10 build. After installing the headset (iplay) I noticed it either binds or there's play in it no matter how little I back off the tension. I'm looking for some help. Anyone use this headset? Does it work in the frame/fork? I cannot figure out what the problem would be. I have 2 spacers above as to be able to tension it properly but still has play. Help please!


From what I can recall the necco headset is supposed to come with a thin washer placed between the top bearing and top cup (to give "slight" clearance between the cup and frame to eliminate binding at this junction) maybe 0.5-1.0mm thick .

Did it come with this / did you install it ?

Could be the issue .

You do have a spacer *above* the stem don't you ? It's a little hard to tell from the pic ?

HTH ?

*Disclaimer :* I don't own the frame or headset in question . It's all recollection from past posts in various Chinese carbon threads 

Fat Biker


----------



## skiinnyboy (Mar 12, 2013)

Yup there's a spacer above. I had to originally sand down the steerer tube a bit to fit the stem for some buzz are reason. I built it back up with a layer of electrical tape in just that area and problem solved!! Lol


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

where is your top cap ? have you cut the fork to right size ?


----------



## skiinnyboy (Mar 12, 2013)

Well build done. Very happy with the ride thus far! Light, tubeless! Frustrating build up forsure but worth it.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

I have one of the supplied thin washers above the top bearing and have no issues. I wouldn't put that many spacers below the stem. You're just asking for trouble. I never like to go more than 20mm on carbon steer tubes. I hope you are not saying that you have electrical tape between your stem and steer tube.:eekster:


----------



## skiinnyboy (Mar 12, 2013)

Nope no electrical tape between the steerer and stem lol that would not be good. I may try to find a washer and see if that's the trick thanks.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

skiinnyboy said:


> Hey there I just finished the ip-10 build. After installing the headset (iplay) I noticed it either binds or there's play in it no matter how little I back off the tension. I'm looking for some help. Anyone use this headset? Does it work in the frame/fork? I cannot figure out what the problem would be. I have 2 spacers above as to be able to tension it properly but still has play. Help please!


what stem is that?


----------



## skiinnyboy (Mar 12, 2013)

Stem is carbon from xmiplay


----------



## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

I have a inquiry in as to the availability of a rebuild kit for these forks. Once I have the info, I will repost. 
Can tell you though I have put just under 100 miles on the fork to date. After toying with the set up it is working very well on rooty, rocky, hilly single track. I have it set up slightly stiffer than normal to compensate for the low toe pressure. No pedal bob, no"washout" when braking or turning, no bouncy rebound. Hoping my god luck continues.


----------



## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Yes it is a tapered steerer. The fact that I can but 2 for the price of one is more than enough reason for me to try it. I have used other carbon forks without issue, I plan to keep a close eye on the steerer.



Fat Biker said:


> 1400g confirmed for an uncut fat bike fork ????
> 
> Now *THAT *for one has me impressed :cornut:
> 
> ...


----------



## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

skiinnyboy said:


> After installing the headset (iplay) I noticed it either binds or there's play in it no matter how little I back off the tension.


The headset have two supplied thin washers that is placed between the top bearing and top cup. On my frame this was not enough. It looks like the 45 degree seat in the frame is slightly to low causing the top cap to rub the frame and bind the steering. 
A thicker washer solved my binding.(you can try first with a spacer ring to see if this eliminate the binding. They have the same dimension as the washers)


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

JonL said:


> Yes it is a tapered steerer. The fact that I can but 2 for the price of one is more than enough reason for me to try it. I have used other carbon forks without issue, I plan to keep a close eye on the steerer.


Thanks JonL

For yout next info could you post some negative aspect of these forks please. 
My credit card is sat in the corner quietly sobbing to itself eyeing me rather nervously  

I somehow need to find near on $3000 dollars for all the bling "bargin" carbon parts I need (WANT !!!) Whilst maintaining an adequate number of limbs / organs (that have not been sold to medical research) required to propel the soon to be acquired carbon bing machine. It's a delicate balance and a fine art once perfected. 
Pity I can't regrow kidneys 

Fat Biker


----------



## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

*Dengfu Bike*

Hey guys, 
I have finally been able to finish the bike and get a short test ride in. first of all here is the spec

Dengfu FM190 frame and fork 17.5" (190 rear, 135 front)
Dengfu TW001 80mm rims on Chosen hubs. 
RaceFace Ride 190 crankset
hope chainring, XT cassette, Hope T-Rex 40t, KMC X10 chain.
Shimano Zee Rear Derailleur, XT shifter
Shimano Deore M615 Hydraulic Disc Brakes
Aerozine Headset, Thomson X4 90mm Stem, 680mm Cobalt 11 Bars
Gub Alloy seatpost, Charge Spoon saddle. 
On One Floater set up tubeless with Gorilla Tape.

the bike is fairly light although not quite as light as i had hoped, its come in at 12kg(26lbs) using the very crude weigh yourself and pick up the bike method. will probably switch to JJ 4.0 for next summer and save 1kg.

As for the ride, its awesome. i don't foresee the wide Q factor being an issue. No it doesn't rip like my 9kg chinese 29er did, but i never thought it would, and i don't care. Love being able to charge over rooty sections with impunity. Nothing i rode today was even remotely challenging, but wanted to give the wheels a chance to settle in and for myself to get used to the bike. All in all, well impressed.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Jay_RigidRide said:


> Hey guys,
> I have finally been able to finish the bike and get a short test ride in. first of all here is the spec
> 
> Dengfu FM190 frame and fork 17.5" (190 rear, 135 front)
> ...


Nice. Looks like much better rear tire clearance than the IP-010 also. And no rear hub spacing issues, right? Looks like the frame of choice when my IP-010 breaks.  If you really want the bike to come to life, get rid of the Floaters for some Husker DU's. I was amazed at the difference. Felt like a different bike. No more funky steering feel, WAY faster _and_ rides better too! The only positive thing about the Floaters is that they set-up tubeless very easily.


----------



## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

dvn said:


> Nice. Looks like much better rear tire clearance than the IP-010 also. And no rear hub spacing issues, right? Looks like the frame of choice when my IP-010 breaks.  If you really want the bike to come to life, get rid of the Floaters for some Husker DU's. I was amazed at the difference. Felt like a different bike. No more funky steering feel, WAY faster _and_ rides better too! The only positive thing about the Floaters is that they set-up tubeless very easily.


I'm afraid 45nrths are out of price range at the moment, I didn't find the floaters had any odd steering traits though in the very short time Ive ridden them of course.

There was no issues with the rear spacing, just requires 2 3.5mm spacers which isn't ideal but it works


----------



## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

Jay_RigidRide said:


> There was no issues with the rear spacing, just requires 2 3.5mm spacers which isn't ideal but it works


So you still have to spread out the rear to 197mm? Then, isn't that the same issue as with current IP-010?


----------



## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

2bliss said:


> So you still have to spread out the rear to 197mm? Then, isn't that the same issue as with current IP-010?


No the spacing is 197mm, the hub i have is 190mm so one spacer each side makes it fit, caliper lined up all ok.


----------



## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

Jay_RigidRide said:


> No the spacing is 197mm, the hub i have is 190mm so one spacer each side makes it fit, caliper lined up all ok.


Aaaaah, okay!


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

very nice, looks like this frame is little more refined. i wish they didnt do bb brake hose routing though. it is very appealing design wise too. i also like rear tire clearance and chain stay protector, i have same thing on my ibis and it it priceless. now i wish i can cancel my order for fb01.


----------



## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

brankulo said:


> very nice, looks like this frame is little more refined. i wish they didnt do bb brake hose routing though. it is very appealing design wise too. i also like rear tire clearance and chain stay protector, i have same thing on my ibis and it it priceless. now i wish i can cancel my order for fb01.


I will get the measurements at some point that you asked for. I think clearance would be ok for a considerably wider tyre though.

As for the hose routing, there is an internal route for a cable brake, you could possibly drill out the stops and put the brake hose through there i reckon.


----------



## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

*Suspension Fork Update*

I got word back that I can use Rock Shox parts when servicing the internals.


----------



## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

*Chinese Carbon Fat Bike pricing*

Since this is the question most are asking, the Complete Bike as you see it cost me $2,290 (this includes the shipping charges).

Complete Parts List:
LT Frame
LT Suspension Fork
LT Seat Post
LT Stem
LT Thru axle 
Neco Headset
Easton Havoc Carbon bars
Carbon wheel set with Chosen hubs
On-one Floater tires. (Pre-owned)
Gorilla Tape (Pre-owned)
Continental sealant
American Classic valves
Look pedals (pre-owned)
Sram X9 rear deraileur and lever (pre-owned)
Sram X9 10sp cassette (pre-owned)
Race Face Turbine crank set w/ 120mm BB 
Race Face 32t chainring and bolts
Formula C1 Brakeset and rotors adaptors.
Housing and cables
Problem solver stick on cable router
Grips (pre-owned)
Carbon water bottle cage (came with wheelset) 
Wipperman Connex chain
Headset spacers
WTB Saddle (pre-owned)


----------



## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

FYI...
It should also be noted that the Thru Axles are different than most. The thru axles do NOT thread to the frame or fork, they thread onto a removable nut. I have not had an issue, but some have commented on the security of this. 
The nut side is recessed, putting the tension clamp on the drive side (which is different from how I mount my quick release).


----------



## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

Guys, I need some help/advice, please. I'm buying the revised IP-010. It will be my first fatbike. If set up with a single narrow/wide chainring, what is the biggest one can go? Is chainring size limited by the frame or clearance issues? It is pretty flat where I live. My 29er HT has a 28/38 chainset and I never use the smaller ring.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

I have a 30T on mine and there's not a lot of room left. Probably a 32 and _maybe_ a 34? I'll try to get a picture later. Will you be riding in snow? If so, don't expect to run the same gearing that you do on a 29 HT on dirt.


----------



## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

dvn said:


> I have a 30T on mine and there's not a lot of room left. Probably a 32 and _maybe_ a 34? I'll try to get a picture later. Will you be riding in snow? If so, don't expect to run the same gearing that you do on a 29 HT on dirt.


Hey dvn, thanks for the info! No snow in South Africa I'm afraid. Was hoping for a 36. Guess I'll have to stick with 2x10


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

2bliss said:


> Was hoping for a 36. Guess I'll have to stick with 2x10


Hi 2bliss

As one of your other posts seemed to suggest you knew , you could get a 36t ring on but this would be with a double ring crank (with the inner removed of course).

It would mean some fine tuning of the chainline , possibly , depending on the crank.

I personally don't like this type of set-up as you can never seem to get the chainline optimal IMHO. But it does seem to work or be acceptable for some people YMMV.

You do still get the advantage of reduced weight with no left shifter, front derailleur, shift cable and inner ring.

You also get the simplicity of running only one ring and the retention capabilities that a narrow wide ring provides.

Just food for thought as you don't _need_ to run dedicated single ring cranks just to see if you like it 

Fat Biker


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

A 34x10 is basically the same as a 38x11. And you're not going to be able to push quite as high a gear on a fat bike.


----------



## pelucon (Aug 16, 2013)

Hello.

I'm writing from Spain, even here we have no Chinese fatty rolling, and I want to buy one.

I like the frame is IP-018 / ltk008 / fm190 (different names, same frame with the naked eye) as the @JonL

I am worried about the problems that you have with rear / brake shaft. This model frame not having problems right ??

advise me somewhere special to buy?

thanks

Carbon Beach Bike Frame Carbon Snow Bike Frame Carbon Fat Bike Frame - Buy Carbon Fat Bike Frame,Carbon Beach Bike Frame,Carbon Beach Bike Frame Product on Alibaba.com

2014 IP-018 carbon fat bike frameset IP-018 frame and FK-018 fat bike fork-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

2014 Newest design fat bike, full carbon fat bike frames, snow bike for fat rim carbon, View full carbon fat bike frames, OEM manufacturers Product Details from Shenzhen Featbike Sport Equipment Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


----------



## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

@ dvn, Fat Biker and Welnic: Your advice is much appreciated, thank you. As this will not be a race bike, I guess a 32T chainring is worth a try. It will be a 1x10 setup (with 11-36 cassette) though, as 1x11 is crazy expensive :skep:

Any recommendations/advice re bottom bracket, crank and NW combo? Are the Race Face bottom brackets more reliable than online user reviews suggest?


----------



## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

Any big boys on these frames? I'm talking 250 plus. Any indications the Carbon frame wouldn't hold up?


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Bunyan said:


> Any big boys on these frames? I'm talking 250 plus. Any indications the Carbon frame wouldn't hold up?


Don't think I would try it. Not on the IP-010 anyway. Top tube strength is questionable as there are four good sized holes in it where the cable stops are installed. This HAS to reduce structural integrity somewhat.


----------



## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Has anyone bought the "SnowBike" either 2014 197mm rear or 2015 190mm frame from Velocarbon on ebay?

It looks to be the same frame as the Dengfu, base on specs and the metal chain guard on the 2015. Thinking about picking up their frame/fork combo, and building up from there. Not sure if non-ebay sellers would be much cheaper though.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

anyone been able to determine largest tire for IP-010, or if just shaving a bit of lou works?


----------



## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

On my left side I have room for a finger between my Husker Du tyre and chainstay(maybe 15mm). This is on LB 90mm rims. On the drive side there is slightly more room. I think a 4.5-4.6 is max this frame can take.
Is your rear tyre centered in the IP010 frame?


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

i think atleast one person in this thread has the fm190.


----------



## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Thanks, have a better idea of what to search for now.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Geir68 said:


> On my left side I have room for a finger between my Husker Du tyre and chainstay(maybe 15mm). This is on LB 90mm rims. On the drive side there is slightly more room. I think a 4.5-4.6 is max this frame can take.
> Is your rear tyre centered in the IP010 frame?


my frame is on its way finally, but i have bud/lou combo on nexties already so trying to figure out if i should sell lou or not. or sell the frame and get different one maybe.


----------



## pelucon (Aug 16, 2013)

pelucon said:


> Hello.
> 
> I'm writing from Spain, even here we have no Chinese fatty rolling, and I want to buy one.
> 
> ...


Hello??


----------



## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

pelucon said:


> Hello??


I bought mine through alibaba, you contact the seller and they give you a quote. The 3rd link is the one I have.


----------



## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

WSUPolar said:


> Thanks, have a better idea of what to search for now.


I have the FM190, only managed to do 1 hour riding so far due to illness but let me know if you have any questions

Jay


----------



## pelucon (Aug 16, 2013)

Jay_RigidRide said:


> I bought mine through alibaba, you contact the seller and they give you a quote. The 3rd link is the one I have.


thanks for the reply.

yours is the same model as my link? 
I had a problem with the rear axle? 
That uses hub?

Thank you


----------



## pelucon (Aug 16, 2013)

Jay_RigidRide said:


> Hey guys,
> I have finally been able to finish the bike and get a short test ride in. first of all here is the spec
> 
> Dengfu FM190 frame and fork 17.5" (190 rear, 135 front)
> ...


jay, your frame is not that I mean in my links. is totally different


----------



## djmartwing (Sep 30, 2014)

Does anyone know if the Bluto fork fits the IP-010 or FB02, i.e. clears the down tube? Or has anyone thrown one of these forks on a IP-018 or FB01? I'm going to pull the trigger on one of these frames if so.


----------



## GazaTron (Jul 20, 2009)

Nah mate the bluto doesn't clear the downtube on the two speeder cycling frames... I've personnally test fitted my bluto on a friends fb02 and fb01.... Can't comment on the ip18 but looking at it and the geometry Id say it's have the same issue as the others .... How ever with a crown race extension of 5mm the bluto crown will clear the downtube on the fb01.... Not ideal but it will work....
Hope that helps... Read back threw the thread I had some posts regarding all this.... 
I want to know when someone finds a chinese carbon frame that will fit the bluto as I will get one then aswell 👍


----------



## mtakahashi (Mar 8, 2006)

GazaTron said:


> Nah mate the bluto doesn't clear the downtube on the two speeder cycling frames... I've personnally test fitted my bluto on a friends fb02 and fb01.... Can't comment on the ip18 but looking at it and the geometry Id say it's have the same issue as the others .... How ever with a crown race extension of 5mm the bluto crown will clear the downtube on the fb01.... Not ideal but it will work....
> Hope that helps... Read back threw the thread I had some posts regarding all this....
> I want to know when someone finds a chinese carbon frame that will fit the bluto as I will get one then aswell 


GazaTron... I have a bluto fork sitting here with a ican carbon frame: SN01 Fat bike frame 2014 BB shell 120mm - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

I am going to be starting the build and will let you guys know if I have any clearance problems.


----------



## djmartwing (Sep 30, 2014)

Awesome. Thanks fellas. I talked to the guys over at Borealis and regarding the Yampa at least, the bluto will fit the large and XL frames but not the smaller ones, (at least without some type of spacer.) I wonder if that applies to these frames too, maybe not tho. GazaTron, do you know by chance what sizes your friends frames were? I'm stoked to hear about how your build goes mtakahashi, keep us posted.


----------



## Rich24 (May 4, 2005)

noniinno said:


> I ordered my chinese fatty frame and wheels from ebay, made by ICAN bikes. SN01 Fat bike frame 2014 BB shell 120mm - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> I asked them some proof of frame/brakes/cranks compatibility and they sent me videos of the bike building. I haven't got my frame yet, but wheels come in two weeks and frame is on its way to Finland. Customer service is excellent by mr? Chen. Hope everything goes ok. If there is troubles with frame, I´ll write again.
> 
> ...


Hi,
I'm about to buy the same frame. Could you please tell what wheels, crank and front derailleur did you buy? How is your bike?


----------



## dwilson (Dec 8, 2006)

Anybody here know if the Bluto will clear the down-tube on a DengFU FM190?


----------



## SpeedyReady (Sep 10, 2014)

Is it possible to fit a Race Face Next SL crank in a 120mm BB frame. My builder doesnt seem to think so ? Im trying to build a nice light race bike so may change my frame if this is the case. Arggg.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Depends on spindle lenght,have 2 sizes for the next.


----------



## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

I have the Next SL cinch on my Borealis and it uses spacers (10mm each)--meaning it should fit a 120mm BB without the spacers.


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

SpeedyReady said:


> Is it possible to fit a Race Face Next SL crank in a 120mm BB frame. My builder doesnt seem to think so ? Im trying to build a nice light race bike so may change my frame if this is the case. Arggg.


Based on http://www.raceface.com/comp/pdf/FATBIKE-CRANK-CLEARANCES.pdf I'd say it should be possible. Looks like Raceface has two different spindle lengths for their Next SL Cinch cranks and then they also have spacers to compensate for the difference between 100mm and 120mm BB shells.


----------



## SpeedyReady (Sep 10, 2014)

Cheers Guys,looks like it should be fine to me then


----------



## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

So I got 20 miles in today and thought I'd share a short update.
Terrain was hardpack in the woods with some roots, some bumpy tracks a long the sides of fields and some loose gravelly tracks. As this is my first fat bike any comparisons are made vs my Chinese carbon 29er.

The bike feels nimble and spritely and most of the time I didn't notice the extra wheel weight. Times when I did notice we're getting moving from stationary and when the track began to incline I could feel myself working a little harder a little earlier than on the 29er. When the track got steep the grip was immense, had no loss of traction and as someone else noted in another thread the front felt less prone to lifting which I assume is down to the extra wheel weight. Either way it led to excellent confident climbing.

As for the frame, the geometry felt very similar to my 29er and as previously mentioned steering felt confident and the handling of the bike was excellent.

The wheels felt good, didn't seem to be much flex as I didn't notice any brake rubbing when out of the saddle which I had done previously with my Stans Crests on the 29er. No complaints about the Floaters either, grip was awesome running them tubeless about 10psi. Still want to get some jumbo jims for next summer but floaters will be great for the muddy winter.

Sorry for the slightly oddly structured post I had some iPad handling issues :madman::madman:


----------



## GazaTron (Jul 20, 2009)

mtakahashi said:


> GazaTron... I have a bluto fork sitting here with a ican carbon frame: SN01 Fat bike frame 2014 BB shell 120mm - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> I am going to be starting the build and will let you guys know if I have any clearance problems.


Hi mate... Yeah the fb02 was a medium and the fb01 was a large.... According to speeder cycling the bottom headset race to downtube measurement doesn't change on any of their frames.....


----------



## couchman (Dec 2, 2011)

there are some nice bikes being built. Trying to compare them all is getting hard. Seems like a 23 lbs bike isn't all that hard, and no need to break the bank.


----------



## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

I finished my build two weeks ago and have been riding it every day.
This is my first experience with a fat bike and I have already cleared several sections I have given up on my FS. 
10.75kg/23.7lbs, getting it below 23lbs would require more money than I´m willing to part with 

Xiamen 190mm frame (the "tight-ass" one)
Light bicycle 90mm rims, Sarma 190/135mm hubs and revo spokes
Raceface Cinch crank with 28T wide-narrow
Carbon seatpost and handlebar, Selle SLR seat
XT brakes, XT cassette 11-36
XX 10spd shifter and X9 type 2 derailleur
HuskerDu mounted tubeless with Stans yellow tape and 100ml fluid in each tyre.


----------



## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

Geir68 said:


> I finished my build two weeks ago and have been riding it every day.
> This is my first experience with a fat bike and I have already cleared several sections I have given up on my FS.
> 10.75kg/23.7lbs, getting it below 23lbs would require more money than I´m willing to part with
> 
> ...


Congrats, the bike looks fantastic! :thumbsup:

What size frame do you have and does it have mounts for just one bottle cage?


----------



## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

This is a 17" frame with one bottle mount on the down tube. The chinese designers probably noticed that these bikes often are use for backpacking since they included rack mounts (5mm metric threads).


----------



## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

Geir68 said:


> This is a 17" frame with one bottle mount on the down tube. The chinese designers probably noticed that these bikes often are use for backpacking since they included rack mounts (5mm metric threads).


Thanks for the info. Happy trails!


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

Geir68 said:


> View attachment 929069
> 
> I finished my build two weeks ago and have been riding it every day.
> This is my first experience with a fat bike and I have already cleared several sections I have given up on my FS.
> ...


Hi Geir...have you a link to that exact frame?....just done a search on the Xiamen 190mm but couldn't locate that frame...the ones i did find had a more rounded profile on the tubes??

cheers


----------



## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

This is the frame from Xiamen(Xmipley):2014 IP-010 carbon fat bike frameset IP-010 frame and FK-018 fat bike fork-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

NOTE:
I guess you haven't read this thread, this frame had a design-error. Its supposed to be fixed now , but I would not order one before someone purchase- and built one successfully.

Edit!
And not room for the big tyres like Bud/Lou, Snowshoe XL and Jumbo Jim 4.8.


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

read most of it honest  design error? ...max tyre size then about 4"???

you US or UK ...im uk ...just wondering how much import duties are going to sting?!


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

andy586 said:


> read most of it honest  design error? ...max tyre size then about 4"???
> 
> you US or UK ...im uk ...just wondering how much import duties are going to sting?!


I have the same frame in a 19". The rear hub spacing is off and requires spacers and spreading the rear dropouts wider than their designed 190mm. Not ideal. Rear tire clearance is limited. 4" tires are fine and like Geir said, Lou is a no-go. I have a set of Dillinger 5's coming but don't have high hopes of it fitting. At this point, it looks like the Dengfu is a safe bet. 2014 NEW CARBON FRAME, FAT FRAME FM190 - dengfubikes
All that being said, this bike rips in single track! I am running times nearly as fast as my 29ers!


----------



## bikecycling (Oct 7, 2014)

Good morning guys, I found out about Xiamen from the threads here on MTBR. I built a 29er by contacting Peter through his email listed on this site. 

I just ordered over $1300 in parts but it's been 5 days with no response, after sending 3 emails. Is anyone having issues getting contact from them? I'm really nervous for obvious reasons. Peter typically responds within 24 hours.


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

this Peter?

[email protected]

...just been having a conversation with him via email this morning ?!


----------



## SpeedyReady (Sep 10, 2014)

Ive just bit the bullet and ordered an LTBikes LTK010 frame 170mm and the FK028 carbon crown suspension forks with axles and headset. Cant wait to get them.Also ordered the nextie 65mm rims. Husker Tyres and XX1 drive train kit has arrived already. Next Sl cranks and other stuff on the way too


----------



## bikecycling (Oct 7, 2014)

Yes Andy, that's him. 5 days, no response, money has been sent. Just trying to get a conversation on an order. If I PM you my name would you mind asking him to confirm my order?


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

yeah sure...though since im mentioned this forum ive not had a reply since 11:32am today? ..its now 1pm here


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

dvn said:


> At this point, it looks like the Dengfu is a safe bet. 2014 NEW CARBON FRAME, FAT FRAME FM190 - dengfubikes


Anyone know if a Bluto will fit on this frame?


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Soooo anyone running 29+ yet?


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

pm'ed you mate



bikecycling said:


> Yes Andy, that's him. 5 days, no response, money has been sent. Just trying to get a conversation on an order. If I PM you my name would you mind asking him to confirm my order?


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> Any know if a Bluto will fit on this frame?


second that


----------



## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

either they did a runner with my money, or they are on the chinese national holiday which last for a week. 
google it, apperantly its national holiday week.


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

bikecycling said:


> Yes Andy, that's him. 5 days, no response, money has been sent. Just trying to get a conversation on an order. If I PM you my name would you mind asking him to confirm my order?


Isn't it a holiday in China right now? I was warned about it when I ordered some stuff recently.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i believe it was 1st-6th of october


----------



## Pig Bodine (Sep 1, 2009)

mtakahashi said:


> GazaTron... I have a bluto fork sitting here with a ican carbon frame: SN01 Fat bike frame 2014 BB shell 120mm - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> I am going to be starting the build and will let you guys know if I have any clearance problems.


Any updates on the build, specifically regarding Bluto clearance? The geometry looks great on the 1P-018/SN01 frames. If it's close to clearing the downtube but still hits it there may be a solution. The Niner Jet 9 RDO from a few years ago (or maybe currently) had the same issue. They made a +5mm crown race for the FSA IS52 bottom bearing which is what these frames use I think. It's still available on their website. Otherwise I don't think there's a non-custom option for IS52 headsets to increase bottom stack height.


----------



## rdrever (Jul 24, 2014)

*Lou on 190mm IP-010 and 80mm rim*

My frame is the 19" IP-010 190mm and my rims are the 80mm carbon ones from Peter at iPlay.

I would advise not purchasing the Lou for this frame but since I already had I figured I might as well see what it would take to make it actually fit...

I started by using side cutters to trim 1/2 off the first 2 row of knobs. After doing that it was still a no go, I could only get up to 4 PSI tubeless before it would rub.

The trouble was that the tire was not 100% true and was still rubbing at certain spots. My rim was perfect and I remounted the tire several times, I am sure the Lou was just not perfectly formed.

I then trimmed 1/3 of the outside corner off the 3rd row of knobs and then mounted it up for a test fit. I used paint marker to mark all the points rubbing or close to rubbing and then used a dremel to shave them down more. I repeated this process a few times until I had enough space for comfort.

Using a tube also made a difference, I can now run 13 PSI with a tube or 8 PSI tubeless. I took it out on a 17km ride test run last night with no rubbing.

I am interested to see if anyone tries out a Specialized Ground Control, might be the way to go next time.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

thanks for posting, i too would be interested in how gc fat fits


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Looking to build a Chinese carbon fat bike up as pain free as possible. Would like to be able to run some biiiiig rubber. 

Anyone know what the Bud's/Lou's come up at tubeless on these carbon rims in MM's please ? All the Chinese technical drawings for the geo's 
are in MM . 

Looking to go as wide as possible on the rims (hundies if possible ?) and run the widest tyres I can get too. 

At the moment it's not looking too promising with these first gen carbon frames.

TIA

Fat Biker


----------



## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

SpeedyReady said:


> Ive just bit the bullet and ordered an LTBikes LTK010 frame 170mm and the FK028 carbon crown suspension forks with axles and headset. Cant wait to get them.Also ordered the nextie 65mm rims. Husker Tyres and XX1 drive train kit has arrived already. Next Sl cranks and other stuff on the way too


I'm going the same route except with XT 1x10 drive train and Cinch (11x42/28T). What hubs for your Nexties (I ordered Hope)? And did you go for some color on the rims?


----------



## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Fat Biker said:


> Looking to build a Chinese carbon fat bike up as pain free as possible. Would like to be able to run some biiiiig rubber.
> 
> Anyone know what the Bud's/Lou's come up at tubeless on these carbon rims in MM's please ? All the Chinese technical drawings for the geo's
> are in MM .
> ...


First gen carbon frames would be Borealis, 9 Zero 7, or Corvus. They did their homework, you do have to pay for it but big tires will fit.


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

Fat Biker said:


> Looking to build a Chinese carbon fat bike up as pain free as possible. Would like to be able to run some biiiiig rubber.
> 
> Anyone know what the Bud's/Lou's come up at tubeless on these carbon rims in MM's please ? All the Chinese technical drawings for the geo's
> are in MM .
> ...


currently going through the same process... like the look of the -010 but tyre clearance does look to be an issue if your thinking 4.8". So think its going to be the Dengfu fm190 ...with a 100mm BB and good clearance .....

anyone any more thoughts on this?


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Fat Biker said:


> Looking to build a *Chinese* carbon fat bike up as pain free as possible. Would like to be able to run some biiiiig rubber.
> 
> Anyone know what the Bud's/Lou's come up at tubeless on these carbon rims in MM's please ? All the Chinese technical drawings for the geo's
> are in MM .
> ...





sryanak said:


> First gen carbon frames would be Borealis, 9 Zero 7, or Corvus. They did their homework, you do have to pay for it but big tires will fit.


I realise _most things_ are made in China these days but I was refering to first gen Chinese carbon frames not carbon frames in general.

Right or wrong this will be a budget build carbon fat bike not some money no object sticker whore bike 



andy586 said:


> currently going through the same process... like the look of the -010 but tyre clearance does look to be an issue if your thinking 4.8". So think its going to be the Dengfu fm190 ...with a 100mm BB and good clearance .....
> 
> anyone any more thoughts on this?


Yup looking for 4.8"+ tyre with some clearance. So it could be a 120 bb for me I'm afraid 

Fat Biker


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

i believe the FM190 has good clearance and is a 100 BSA BB ....no need to go 120...


----------



## SpeedyReady (Sep 10, 2014)

aizu1 said:


> I'm going the same route except with XT 1x10 drive train and Cinch (11x42/28T). What hubs for your Nexties (I ordered Hope)? And did you go for some color on the rims?


I was going to go Tune hubs but too much money so Hope hubs it is. Going for 3k finish on the rims so no colour.Should still be around 24 lbs 😊


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

SpeedyReady said:


> I was going to go Tune hubs but too much money so Hope hubs it is. Going for 3k finish on the rims so no colour.Should still be around 24 lbs 😊


I'm looking forward to following your build. My frame should ship in a couple weeks. Still need to order the rims and build the wheels. Rims and frame will be painted.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

andy586 said:


> currently going through the same process... like the look of the -010 but tyre clearance does look to be an issue if your thinking 4.8". So think its going to be the Dengfu fm190 ...with a 100mm BB and good clearance .....
> 
> anyone any more thoughts on this?


Looking at this photo, I'm not sure a Lou would fit on the Dengfu. Side clearance looks close but I'd be more concerned with BB clearance. 4.8's are MUCH bigger in diameter. And I thought the FM190 had a 120mm BB.


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

andy586 said:


> i believe the FM190 has good clearance and is a 100 BSA BB ....no need to go 120...


The choice of crankset depends on width of rear hub, not the width of the bottom bracket . You could end up with hitting the crank arm in the chain stay by choosing the wrong crankset. My RaceFace Cinch crankset use a 100mm bottom bracket with spacers on both side to clear those big tyres.

This document show the needed Q factor for different hub width:
http://www.raceface.com/comp/pdf/FATBIKE-CRANK-CLEARANCES.pdf


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## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

Geir68 said:


> The choice of crankset depends on width of rear hub, not the width of the bottom bracket . You could end up with hitting the crank arm in the chain stay by choosing the wrong crankset. My RaceFace Cinch crankset use a 100mm bottom bracket with spacers on both side to clear those big tyres.


Geir have you a direct link for which crank...will be going down the fm190 route i think and also the spacers??

cheers


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

Race Face
You could also choose the Next SL if you are rich andn want to save some weight.


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## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

Geir68 said:


> Race Face
> You could also choose the Next SL if you are rich andn want to save some weight.


Cheers! I think I'll go for the cinch, and go on a diet! ...save the cash !


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Geir68 said:


> The choice of crankset depends on width of rear hub, not the width of the bottom bracket . You could end up with hitting the crank arm in the chain stay by choosing the wrong crankset. My RaceFace Cinch crankset use a 100mm bottom bracket with spacers on both side to clear those big tyres.
> 
> This document show the needed Q factor for different hub width:
> http://www.raceface.com/comp/pdf/FATBIKE-CRANK-CLEARANCES.pdf


You are a little off there.
The RF Next with the 170 spacing spindle will fit many 190 spaced bikes. The problem is if you are running a double ring drive set up....your chainline will be off and the chain will not clear a big tire in the small ring
On the single cinch set up....you flip the ring to clear the tire.

If you have a 120 b/b...you will need the 190 spacing spindle and not use the 2 10mm spacers


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## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

the mayor said:


> You are a little off there.
> On the single cinch set up....you flip the ring to clear the tire.


Direct mount only or does the same apply to single chainring setup with a spider? Apologies if this is a stupid question, but I've not had a 1x setup before.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

2bliss said:


> Direct mount only or does the same apply to single chainring setup with a spider? Apologies if this is a stupid question, but I've not had a 1x setup before.


What crank?
What bike?
What chain ring?
on 2nd thought....you might want to start your own thread as to not derail this one?
Or maybe that's too late....


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## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

Pig Bodine said:


> Any updates on the build, specifically regarding Bluto clearance? The geometry looks great on the 1P-018/SN01 frames. If it's close to clearing the downtube but still hits it there may be a solution. The Niner Jet 9 RDO from a few years ago (or maybe currently) had the same issue. They made a +5mm crown race for the FSA IS52 bottom bearing which is what these frames use I think. It's still available on their website. Otherwise I don't think there's a non-custom option for IS52 headsets to increase bottom stack height.


Thanks for the tip on the Niner +5mm crown race - I'll get one on order, since it sounds like the IP-010 that will eventually be delivered to me won't clear the Bluto. I'll deal with the AC height and geometry implications once I get the thing on the trail (either run more sag or switch to 80mm travel).


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## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

the mayor said:


> What crank?
> What bike?
> What chain ring?
> on 2nd thought....you might want to start your own thread as to not derail this one?
> Or maybe that's too late....


Was referring to flipping of the chainring only as per your previous post (#1288). Was wondering if you were referring to a DM chainring on the Cinch crank? Not asking about my setup, I'm asking about yours


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

2bliss said:


> Was referring to flipping of the chainring only as per your previous post (#1288). Was wondering if you were referring to a DM chainring on the Cinch crank? Not asking about my setup, I'm asking about yours


Yes....the direct mount cinch.
You flip the ring to move the offset outboard and this will work on most 190/197 spaced frames using the 170 space spindle....giving you a 20mm narrower Q factor


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## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

the mayor said:


> Yes....the direct mount cinch.
> You flip the ring to move the offset outboard and this will work on most 190/197 spaced frames using the 170 space spindle....giving you a 20mm narrower Q factor


Got it, thanks!


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

My carbon fatty has been treating me good. My trail riding has been split 50/50 between it and my single speed canfield nimble 9. Both are fun and i'm in love with both. At first I wondered if the novelty of riding a fat bike on trails would wear off. It hasn't. Or at least it hasn't yet.

This weekend we were riding extremely rocky trails at Laurel Mountain. Honestly, it felt like I was cheating. Between the huge tires, actually having gears (not singlespeed), and good track standing skills, I was unstopable. Previously I found myself putting a foot down many times during rides there. Getting hung up on rocks is easy. But with the fatty, I could get through the gnarliest sections even at extremely slow speeds. Stopped by a rock? No problem, just trackstand for a second and then pedal and lunge right over it. People were laughing at how easy it made the trails look.

Oh, and everyone had to ride the fatty at the picnic after the ride. By everyone I mean at least 40 or 50 people. They all wanted to know how much it weighs. Still haven't weighed it. 

The frame is available from q2cycling for non-north-american customers. Otherwise it should be available via KHS or Framed.


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## Canyonman (Nov 21, 2006)

Back to FAT tires....has anyone actually had success with a 100mm rim and a Lou 4.8 mounted on any of the molds with the 190/197 rear hub?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Any of the 190 or 197 frames should work. That's the reason for moving up from 170 or 177.


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## rdrever (Jul 24, 2014)

dfiler said:


> Any of the 190 or 197 frames should work. That's the reason for moving up from 170 or 177.


Not really, the Lou does not even come close to fitting my iPlay IP-010 190mm frame... Look back a few pages, I had to seriously cut down the outside 3 rows of knobs on the Lou to make it usable with an 80mm rim. I would not call that fitting... Will only be worse with a 100mm rim. Reason for moving up from 170 is to prevent chain from rubbing the tire but the tire clearance on the frame is a whole other issue.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> Any of the 190 or 197 frames should work. That's the reason for moving up from 170 or 177.


Can't recall if you've posted clearance pics of your setup Dfiler ?

If not, any chance you could show the cs from underneath and ss clearance's please ?

Also around the forks too 

Looks like the Q2 Cycling frame is the widest so far. But Bud n Lou on 90mm Nexties is the max you can fit 

Thanks

Fat Biker


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Ok, promised myself a carbon fatty project after a race I was training for, race completed... fatty time.

Had a few in mind, contacted the parent company and the Australian distributor of 2 big named carbon fattys with no replay in 3 days from either or them.... well no point paying for a name then if you cant even reply.

Just ordered a FM190, new set of Nexties and will order hubs and spokes tonight... hoping Bud will fit on Nextie 90mms !


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## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

A little update about iPlay: Having been told by Peter that the factory were revising the IP-010 mould to address the spacing issues, I took a chance and ordered the frame before the Chinese National Day holidays. Peter said my frame would ship the day after the end of the holiday. That was yesterday. I e-mailed yesterday to ask for my tracking number and he said they had just returned from holiday and they would ship today. So, I just e-mailed again to ask for a tracking number. NOW he tells me they don't have bubblewrap to protect the frame, so will ship it on Monday.

Is it just me or does this smell fishy?


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

2bliss said:


> Is it just me or does this smell fishy?


Smells fishy to me. I know there are many people who have had a good experience dealing with Peter but I for one am not impressed with how he is responding, or should I say, _not responding_, to this IP-010 issue. I certainly won't be buying through him again.


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

Nah, it's OK. They're probably too busy packing MY frame
Seriously, I'll contact Peter on Monday to check on things, too.


----------



## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

dvn said:


> Smells fishy to me. I know there are many people who have had a good experience dealing with Peter but I for one am not impressed with how he is responding, or should I say, _not responding_, to this IP-010 issue. I certainly won't be buying through him again.


Yeah, I wish Nextie Bikes had this (or similar) fatbike frame. Ordered 90mm rims from them and could not be happier with both product and service.



simen said:


> Nah, it's OK. They're probably too busy packing MY frame
> Seriously, I'll contact Peter on Monday to check on things, too.


I hope you are right! Did you also order the revised IP-010? I'm starting to wonder if all is well with the modifications. I mean, really! How can a company like that not have bubblewrap?! What a lame excuse!


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

Yes, I opted for a 170mm IP-010 frame since I had a Fatsno hub waiting and an e-bay Carbongoods qr fork because I'll use my Jones fat front wheel. Peter confirmed they'll be shipping revised frames after their holidays. My communication with him went well, can't say nothing against him and I don't mind waiting for another week if the frames are not ready but bubblewrap...


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

rdrever said:


> Not really, the Lou does not even come close to fitting my iPlay IP-010 190mm frame... Look back a few pages, I had to seriously cut down the outside 3 rows of knobs on the Lou to make it usable with an 80mm rim. I would not call that fitting... Will only be worse with a 100mm rim. Reason for moving up from 170 is to prevent chain from rubbing the tire but the tire clearance on the frame is a whole other issue.


Ah, thanks. I must have missed those posts.

That sounds like a faulty frame design that we hopefully won't see repeated. The reason for moving to 190 or 197 spacing is to provide chain clearance for bigger tires. If there isn't frame clearance for those tires, the wider spacing is pointless. Actually, it's worse than pointless, resulting in wider-q and heal rub.


----------



## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

my frame should ship next week (ip-018)


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> Ok, promised myself a carbon fatty project after a race I was training for, race completed... fatty time.
> 
> Had a few in mind, contacted the parent company and the Australian distributor of 2 big named carbon fattys with no replay in 3 days from either or them.... well no point paying for a name then if you cant even reply.
> 
> Just ordered a FM190, new set of Nexties and will order hubs and spokes tonight... hoping Bud will fit on Nextie 90mms !


ozzy, i tried to overlay lou profile over yoke that i drew according to dimensions i got from Jay. it seems to be fitting fine.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Thanks brankulo, good to hear.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

my frame just arrived. supposed to have revised brake mounts. any way i can check without having hubs or wheel built?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Fat Biker said:


> Can't recall if you've posted clearance pics of your setup Dfiler ?
> 
> If not, any chance you could show the cs from underneath and ss clearance's please ?
> 
> ...


I'll try to remember to post pics later. There is tons of clearance. I can put my hand between the tire and chainstays or bottom bracket.

There is less clearance on the bluto, perhaps just a quarter inch from the side knobs.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

so what is the consensus on biggest tire ip 010 can fit?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

cavo said:


> my frame just arrived. supposed to have revised brake mounts. any way i can check without having hubs or wheel built?


since it came today it is most likely revised one. mine had arrived couple of days ago an has brake mounts fixed. i was going back and forth weather to build it or not. decided to try to sell it since it was primarily going to be my winter bike and need to fit bigger tires.
here is my add if anyone is interested.


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## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

brankulo said:


> mine had arrived couple of days ago an has brake mounts fixed.


Good to know the brake mount issue was successfully addressed. Thanks for the info!


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## SpeedyReady (Sep 10, 2014)

Can anyone confirm the seat post size required for an LTbikes frame. 31.6mm I'm guessing ? Just ordering lots of goodies for when the frame arrives. Cheers


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

cavo said:


> so what is the consensus on biggest tire ip 010 can fit?


i looked at how dillingers 5 will fit into yoke in cad. looks like side knobs are just touching the frame, so with minor trimming, they could fit. be advised, i am going by numbers provided by frame company and tire company. there are other variables involved too and unless frame and tire is made exactly to the specs , real world experience might be different.


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

My Speedercycle 170 rear end frame came today--just some quick note/comments/questions----

Looks like it takes an integrated headset--so much for my Chris King tapered headset I purchased. 

I purchased Sarma hubs. The rear hub fits in nicely. Through axles were provided and are identical to the ones I purchased via ebay--actually sets up nicely--will post photos tomorrow.

Looks like Sarma sent the wrong endcaps for the front hub. I removed the quick release caps, but the provided caps are too small diameter to thread on to the axle--I have emailed them.

I am going to head to my LBS tomorrow to see about a headset and then I will get some photos up of the frame and assembly.

This is a build for my wife. The frame arrived well packaged and communication with speedercycling was excellent, but I wish they had specified the headset was integrated rather than just saying it is tapered.

So--anyone else have similar issues with Sarma hub and endcaps? Any advice on a headset?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Fat Biker said:


> Can't recall if you've posted clearance pics of your setup Dfiler ?
> 
> If not, any chance you could show the cs from underneath and ss clearance's please ?
> 
> ...


Not from underneath but here are some clearance pics. Definitely enough room for bud and lou on 100mm. Also enough room for 29+ 3" tires.

For some reason these photos make the gap look small. In real life it seems larger.

Also, note the absurd chain line clearance when running a 1x10 with a race face direct mount ring.


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

Frame is speedercycling FB-02 in 170, size 17inch. Looks like it uses the same headset as the borealis--integrated, 42 upper 52 lower--ordered up a crane creek set.

Rear wheel went in no problem and brake/rotor line up nicely. There are ridges on the inside of the frame for the hub to "stop" on when inserting the wheel.

The through axle slides in nice and secure, and the nut sits in place securely.


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## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

A few days ago I ordered the fm190 frame/fork set, headset, 80mm wheels with the chosen hubs, post and clamp direct from Dengfu. Looking forward to the build! I'll be replacing my pugs and hoping to drop some weight. Going to try the gorilla tape tubeless setup, just need to figure out what crank and bottom bracket to use. 

Vtmtber


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> Not from underneath but here are some clearance pics. Definitely enough room for bud and lou on 100mm. Also enough room for 29+ 3" tires.
> 
> For some reason these photos make the gap look small. In real life it seems larger.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dfiler that's great info.

Looks like this may be the one to go for then as both the ip-010 and the dengfu can't fit fat rubber (going by previous posts)  
Unless anyone else can chime in with a Chinese sourced (read cheap) carbon fatty that can ?

P.S. That chain line is *sick*  that's the kind of clearance I'm looking for.

Thanks

Fat Biker


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## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

Fat Biker said:


> Thanks Dfiler that's great info.
> 
> Looks like this may be the one to go for then as both the ip-010 and the dengfu can't fit fat rubber (going by previous posts)
> Unless anyone else can chime in with a Chinese sourced (read cheap) carbon fatty that can ?
> ...


I don't actually have the big rubber to try it, but you will see from my previous post with the clearance pics and chain line that there is LOADS (scientific) of clearance for the floater on 80mm rim on the Dengfu FM-190. I can't be certain it will fit Lou on a clown shoe but it will certainly take a lot bigger than 4.0.


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## goobernaculum (May 26, 2014)

I've just found this thread and am currently making my way through it, lots to read! Not sure if its been covered, but I really like the look of the KHS carbon fat bike found here 4 SEASON 5000 - KHS Bicycles
Are any of the chinese models you guys using similar/same?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

That frame is only available from KHS or Framed. Outside of North America it used to be available from q2cycling but it isn't listed for sale anymore. For more photos and info, search for my posts in this thread.


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## goobernaculum (May 26, 2014)

dfiler said:


> That frame is only available from KHS or Framed. Outside of North America it used to be available from q2cycling but it isn't listed for sale anymore. For more photos and info, search for my posts in this thread.


Thank you very much.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Anyone have any opinion on/experience with Feat Bikes FM197?
Fatbike Carbon Frame _FatBike_Full Carbon bike

It looks good, with 197mm spacing, but I can see an issue with 445 chainstays and 4.8" tires being too good to be true.(?)

Edit: FYI, the chainstay length was found by ways of gooooooogle, so I may be wrong there.


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## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

That looks to be the same as the Dengfu FM190, in which case chain stay length will be 468mm according to their geometry chart. I may be wrong, but looks that way.


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## skiinnyboy (Mar 12, 2013)

Anyone have any experience with 29+ wheelset or bluto fork clearance on the xmiplay xp-10 frame? (19")


----------



## dcrowe (Oct 9, 2009)

I have a question for those that have received FM190 from Dengfu. What is the rear axle configuration?

And for any that have also ordered the 80mm wheel set from Dengfu. Any opinions that you could share? 

I am sold on FM190 but stuck on wheels between Hope Nextie 90s or Choosen Dengfu 80s. Building as a winter ultra race bike, hoping to run double Buds. 

Thanks, appreciate all the info posted so far. 







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

You get to choose, 190mm QR rear or 197mm x 12mm thru axle rear, front 135mm QR or 135mm x 15mm thru axle.

There is also a $20 option for them to supply both thru axles. I opted for them to supply the axles.


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## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

Second what Ozzy said, I have the wheelset and although I think it's decent for the money, Hope and Nextie would undoubtedly be superior if you have the funds for it. I'm not sure anyone has actually confirmed that Bud/Lou will fit yet (may be wrong)


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## dcrowe (Oct 9, 2009)

Thanks for the quick answers. Ozzy, are the different axle options accomplished with a replaceable dropout?

Appreciate the feedback on the wheels Jay. Good to know they are decent. Still hoping someone has 90 or 100 with bud or Lou experience with FM190


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

Going by info supplied in this thread hopes of running 4.8" Schwalbe JumboJim tyres on an IP-010 (190mm) are dashed.

Espen W reports measurements of Lou (tubeless) and 4.8" JJs (with tubes) on 103mm rims as being: 4.58" Lou and 4.65" JJ at 4PSI; 4.98" Lou and 4.85" JJ at 30 PSI.

Darnit. I was hoping the JJs would run a bit narrow.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

dcrowe said:


> Thanks for the quick answers. Ozzy, are the different axle options accomplished with a replaceable dropout?


Not sure mate, still waiting on my frame to arrive, I've requested it to be painted so its taking longer.

I would say the rear would be done by changeable dropouts, the fork might not be.


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## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

dcrowe said:


> Thanks for the quick answers. Ozzy, are the different axle options accomplished with a replaceable dropout?
> 
> Appreciate the feedback on the wheels Jay. Good to know they are decent. Still hoping someone has 90 or 100 with bud or Lou experience with FM190
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes it is replaceable dropouts. The axle is bolt thru with a nut on the end and a lever to tension and lock like a regular QR would be. Fork is not replaceable but axle function is the same, it's not threaded into one side of the fork.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

*New downtube decal*

Name chosen by my 5 y/o son, I was too lazy to think of something different.


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## TacoMikeAK (Oct 16, 2014)

Alright so I have been following this thread for a while now and the Speedercycle FB01 I ordered in August came in yesterday everything seems to be going great as far as previous issues you have all had but today I took it down to the LBS (home of the Fatback actually, awkward...) any way we tried fitting a headset on it. Bottom bearing no problem the top bearing on the other had a lot of play it would just wobble around in place and with the cap on top it would leave a small gap around the edges which would allow debris and such in. Contacted Sarah tonight she wanted a picture which I'll give her tomorrow. 

Anywho. Long story short has anyone else had this problem or for that matter have any suggestions. And yes we are using the size bearing that was prescribed for the bike. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Mine was loose during my initial build. It seemed as though the bearing bed was larger than the bearing. Turns out I was being too cautious when tightening it down. Do not recall the torque off the top of my head, but all has been fine once I torqued the top cap down.



TacoMikeAK said:


> Alright so I have been following this thread for a while now and the Speedercycle FB01 I ordered in August came in yesterday everything seems to be going great as far as previous issues you have all had but today I took it down to the LBS (home of the Fatback actually, awkward...) any way we tried fitting a headset on it. Bottom bearing no problem the top bearing on the other had a lot of play it would just wobble around in place and with the cap on top it would leave a small gap around the edges which would allow debris and such in. Contacted Sarah tonight she wanted a picture which I'll give her tomorrow.
> 
> Anywho. Long story short has anyone else had this problem or for that matter have any suggestions. And yes we are using the size bearing that was prescribed for the bike.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

TacoMikeAK said:


> Alright so I have been following this thread for a while now and the Speedercycle FB01 I ordered in August came in yesterday everything seems to be going great as far as previous issues you have all had but today I took it down to the LBS (home of the Fatback actually, awkward...) any way we tried fitting a headset on it. Bottom bearing no problem the top bearing on the other had a lot of play it would just wobble around in place and with the cap on top it would leave a small gap around the edges which would allow debris and such in. Contacted Sarah tonight she wanted a picture which I'll give her tomorrow.
> 
> Anywho. Long story short has anyone else had this problem or for that matter have any suggestions. And yes we are using the size bearing that was prescribed for the bike.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


i have headset from speeder, tried to fit it yesterday, it has some wobble but i think when i tighten everything it will work fine. just make sure you have those thin washers installed too.


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## Dandy Mole (Oct 16, 2014)

Hi JonL,
Seems as good a name as any ! What frame is that, and is it a Bluto fork? Frame size?
Looking for a Chinese carbon frame (M/L) that will take a Bluto fork.


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## TacoMikeAK (Oct 16, 2014)

*Wobbly bearing*









So I've attached a photo of the bearing in position and you can see the clearance is just wrong. Protrudes up too much along with the wobble.


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

TacoMikeAK said:


> So I've attached a photo of the bearing in position and you can see the clearance is just wrong. Protrudes up too much along with the wobble.


Wobble is normal. It will go away when you tighten top cap. This is confirmed in the chicarb 29r forum.

The upper bearing exposure is a little high when comparing to my two "campy" style drop in headsets but I don't see how that increases contamination.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Looks pretty much like mine did. No problems.


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## TacoMikeAK (Oct 16, 2014)

Well I guess I'll throw it together and give it a shot. It's a lot of wobble though the bearing doesn't even find a home it just floats in there. You press on it anywhere and it pops right up on the other side. I'll be back with an update.


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Anyone have one of these?
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=221571215680


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

that bearing position looks like mine too


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## sj14 (Oct 17, 2014)

Hey guys

New here. Need help, pronto. I cant fit me rotors. The brake mount is in the way and fork manufacturer says there is nothing wrong with em and wheelset hubs are of the right specs as the fork,135x15. So whats wrong here? Anyone can give me a heads up?


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## TacoMikeAK (Oct 16, 2014)

*Bearing update*

Alright so picked up a headset from 907 of all people and the bearing fit tremendously better for whatever reason and the spacing is minimal. Speaking of spacing the bud and Lou are fitting perfect on the frame and I opened up my thule tire loops with a car jack and boom she fits on the roof. Things are coming together, ready for the snow.


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## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

If thats a pic of your fork, you will need a front hub with rear hub disc spacing.


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## sj14 (Oct 17, 2014)

constantijn13 said:


> If thats a pic of your fork, you will need a front hub with rear hub disc spacing.


Ur saying I got the wrong hub?! ??


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

sj14 said:


> Ur saying I got the wrong hub?! ??


There are some conflicting standards. Initially fatbikes used a rear wheel at the front so you could have the fixed cog available in emergency. Thus all fatbike forks had rear disk spacing for their hubs and forks.

Then along came symmetrical forks and hubs which used the standard front spacing.

So you have to be careful when ordering front hubs and forks to make sure that you are getting them to match.

A rear hub spacing with a front standard fork isn't a disaster because you can buy spacers to space the disk towards the fork, but you have the opposite problem unfortunately and your disk mount on the hub is too close.

About all I can think off is that you have to change one of those components, fork or hub.


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## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

*hub*

it seems like it.
read this:

Spews | The Information Hole | Surly Bikes

front hubs have the disc tab 7.5 mm (i think) further outwards then rear disc.
a few years ago you had to use a 135mm rear (single speed) hub as a front hub. 
to match this you used a rear disc caliper.

with al the new attention for fatbikes some manufactures changed to front disc spacing and some stayed with rear disc spacing.
If you check the Hope hubs you will see they are available with both front and rear disc spacing


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

sj14 said:


> Ur saying I got the wrong hub?! ??


What hub are you using?

I notice that Hope Fatsno has 2 front hubs FDS and RDS (front disc spacing / Rear disc spacing). Not sure which one to use with the Carbon forks from china...


----------



## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

Carbongoods e-bay fork: Hope Fatsno FDS, Paul's WHUB and Jones hub


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Yep, looks like a front spaced hub. I went through this with a WHUB hub. I was able to modify an IS mount bracket to compensate for the offset. You might be stitched with post mounts.


----------



## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Ok I've read a lot of this thread and I'm still confused where the best place to buy the carbon frame lol


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

sj14 said:


> Ur saying I got the wrong hub?! ??


Basically, yes.

You have a fds hub and what appears t be a rds fork. Doesn't appear to be a workaround to make this combo work. So you need a rds hub. Or a fds fork. Sorry.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

So, nobody needs a RDS front hub unless they dabble with Surly stuff ???

Its a headf#@k when ordering hubs that we dont need added to the "standard" crap... BTW the reason for my spit is, I got sent a Hope RDS hub instead of a FDS hub... apparently nightshift order-fillers don't understand the significance of that letter on the label... what's RDS or FDS between friends ! They got the 32h, the Black, the 170mm, the Hope, the Fatsno... FDS/RDS who cares.


----------



## SworksDan (Nov 29, 2011)

ozzybmx said:


> Ok, promised myself a carbon fatty project after a race I was training for, race completed... fatty time.
> 
> Had a few in mind, contacted the parent company and the Australian distributor of 2 big named carbon fattys with no replay in 3 days from either or them.... well no point paying for a name then if you cant even reply.
> 
> Just ordered a FM190, new set of Nexties and will order hubs and spokes tonight... hoping Bud will fit on Nextie 90mms !


ozzybmx,,
What made you decide on the Dengfu FM 190 verses say an Iplay?? does it have to do with the company or something you had seen in the spec's?

Please advise..


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

SworksDan said:


> ozzybmx,,
> What made you decide on the Dengfu FM 190 verses say an Iplay?? does it have to do with the company or something you had seen in the spec's?
> 
> Please advise..


I'm guessing because the FM-190 will take big tires.


----------



## dcrowe (Oct 9, 2009)

Just ordered a FM190. Have been following these open mold fat frames since the beginning. Decided on Fm190 as it did not suffer from the rear hub spacing issues of others and excellent customer service. I will post to this thread if anything changes upon delivery etc. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TacoMikeAK (Oct 16, 2014)

*The beast is done!*









Well guys I must say this build wouldn't have been possible without all your guys expertise and I appreciate it so much. This is my first fatbike and bike build and I couldn't be more pleased. Happy riding!!


----------



## couchman (Dec 2, 2011)

Looks real nice. Do you want to do spec's and weight?
I have that pull the trigger quick feeling, before it's too late in the season.


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

Very nice! .. Which frame is that??


----------



## seiska (Oct 14, 2014)

TacoMikeAK said:


> View attachment 932176
> 
> 
> Well guys I must say this build wouldn't have been possible without all your guys expertise and I appreciate it so much. This is my first fatbike and bike build and I couldn't be more pleased. Happy riding!!


you did a greate job Mr.TacoMike!
what is frame size you actually use and what is the company who sell those frames?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Looks like Wasilla...


----------



## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

TacoMikeAK said:


> View attachment 932176
> 
> 
> Well guys I must say this build wouldn't have been possible without all your guys expertise and I appreciate it so much. This is my first fatbike and bike build and I couldn't be more pleased. Happy riding!!


Great looking build!


----------



## TacoMikeAK (Oct 16, 2014)

Frame FB01 
Wheels Nextie 90s
Hubs Hope Fatsno
Crankset Raceface Next Sl for 190 rear spacing 
Pedals DH mallets
Seatpost Cobalt 11
Saddle Brooks cambium 
Stem Cobalt 11
Handlebar Whisky flat bar 
Brakes Avid BB7 with Hope floating rotors
Derailer is x9 
Shifter x9 
Bud and Lou, tubeless 

27lbs exactly.


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Nice looking bike! wow. I must say I thought it would be lighter, with a Bluto and a dropper it would probably be over 30lbs (two things I would add).


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Brakes, pedals, saddle are going to be significantly heavier than some alternatives, be interested to know what kind of spokes too. 

But nice bike for sure.


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

Finished my build today: Thank you all for some great help, advice, and support--I used a lot of information from folks in this thread to help me.









Frame is Spercycling FB-02, 17 inch. This is for my wife and she only rides packed trails so 170mm rear works well for her--she will not be running larger than a 4 inch tire.

Weight--30pounds 10 ounces (with pedals and everything else)--there is a lot of weight to be lost in wheels still--see below.

Sarma hubs laced to Turnagain 80mm rims, surly tubes, 45nrth Dillinger (27TPI) tires. I had the dillingers from her last bike. I figure changing over to carbon rims and 120TPI tubeless will take off 3 to 4 pounds, but that will be a project for next summer.

Sram X9 and 11-36 10speed cassette.
TRP Spyke brakes, 160mm rotors.

Race Face Atlas Cinch with 26 tooth ring.

My wife was riding a pugsley last year so it will be interesting to find out what if any differences she notices.


----------



## Rich24 (May 4, 2005)

TacoMikeAK said:


> Frame FB01
> Wheels Nextie 90s
> Hubs Hope Fatsno
> Crankset Raceface Next Sl for 190 rear spacing
> ...


Hi, I'm about to buy the same frame.
If I understand well, your frame have a 120mm BB with a 197mm rear spacing and the crank a 100mm BB\spindle for a 190mm rear spacing and you have no clearing issue.


----------



## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

ozzybmx said:


> So, nobody needs a RDS front hub unless they dabble with Surly stuff ???


The On-One Fatty has RDS spacing for their forks.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Stevob said:


> The On-One Fatty has RDS spacing for their forks.


Ah cheers Stevo... any reason why ? The rear of the on-one is 170mm so its not swappable.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

SworksDan said:


> ozzybmx,,
> What made you decide on the Dengfu FM 190 verses say an Iplay?? does it have to do with the company or something you had seen in the spec's?
> 
> Please advise..


I contacted 2 Aussie dealers/distributors asking about availability of 2 carbon frame and fork sets, I eventually got an email back from one of them (5 days later) and he was very helpful, the other... neither the Aus or US company got back to me.

To be quite honest, there are a few other frames out there that I considered but they are a stickered up Ch frame with $1000 added to the price. I dont mind paying a little bit on top like with my On-One CX bike, the frame and forks were only $150 more than the Chi version (same mould), $1000 extra is rippin it...

So, knowing I could basically build the whole bike for not much more that the price of the frame/forks from one of the unnamed big brands not mentioned above  I did a quick read of this thread, looked at a few and ordered the Dengfu frame and forks, mainly on the shape of the frame, bb and possible room for Bud.

I got the FM190 painted white to match and offset my new black and white Nextie wheels, does anyone know if I will be able to fit the Next SL cranks on this frame with the 170mm spindle ? or do I need to order the 190mm spindle and spacers ?


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Bikes look sweet TacoMike and Orind !!

Very nice :thumbsup:


----------



## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

ozzybmx said:


> Ah cheers Stevo... any reason why ? The rear of the on-one is 170mm so its not swappable.


The old Mukluks did too, I don't know about the new ones. No idea why, maybe they were trying for more even flange spacing or just had to pick one.


----------



## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Anyone know if the clearance issue or spacing issue is fixed on the IP-010 frame?


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

sryanak said:


> The old Mukluks did too, I don't know about the new ones.


I had an old Muk and didn't even know that about it.


----------



## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

It is! They fixed 190mm version first and they'll be shipping 170mm frames soon. Mine's been sent already and Peter was really helpful.


----------



## couchman (Dec 2, 2011)

Seem like, if you want to build a low to mid 20 lbs bike, you need to go with the 65mm cf rims, a light crank x 1, and a 4" tire like the Hudu or new Schwalbe JJ coming out. 
I really like the build Mortenste did.

My 907 is sub 31 lbs. I could possibly get it down to around 27 lbs by going: getto tubless, and swapping the alu cockpit and fork for carbon. 

4" tires suit my needs, so i really need to just put my big boy pantz on and call a call on the hubs and frame spacing. hmm


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Thank You


----------



## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

Couchman--I built up a Borealis (XL) with HED rims, Race Face Next SL---Came in at 25 pounds. Yes, doable, but as you stated carbon fiber rims and tubeless are a must to get the weight down.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

orind said:


> Finished my build today: Thank you all for some great help, advice, and support--I used a lot of information from folks in this thread to help me.
> 
> View attachment 932213
> 
> ...


thats a great looking build


----------



## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

Here is a picture for revised IP-010 frame and previous IP-010 frame.

You can tell the difference through the brake mounts

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I


PeterQ520 said:


> View attachment 932934
> 
> 
> Here is a picture for revised IP-010 frame and previous IP-010 frame.
> ...


Peter,

I thought the problem wasn't only the brake mount location. But also that the axle spacing is actually too narrow causing the cassette to run on the frame as well. The frame spacing needs to be 190 from dropout to dropout. Not from the axle mounting surface to axle mounting surface.

Honestly though, the update should have been to change this to a true 197x12 thru axle. Not these non-standard hybrid 190x12 thru axles (or about 188 in the case of your frame). A 190 rear hub should be a quick release while thru axles use the 197 standard.

Jeremy


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

what's standard? we're lucky all the 190 hubs are the same and all the 190 frames are the same.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

neons97 said:


> I
> 
> Peter,
> 
> ...


i have not noticed any problems on drive side cassette/frame interference on mine. the brake mounts are fixed, no issues there either.


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

kidd said:


> what's standard? we're lucky all the 190 hubs are the same and all the 190 frames are the same.


While there is no "standard", there are established best practices...

135mm QR => 142mm Thru Axle
170mm QR => 177mm Thru Axle
190mm QR => 197mm Thru Axle

i.e. thru axle = +7mm vs qr

In all cases, the thru-axle frames are the same OLD, but the frames have 3.5mm notches to index the extra long hub end caps, leaving the OLD still the same as the QR.

These Chinese "190mm Thru Axle" frames would be "okay" if they were like the old 135mm Thru Axle Downhill frames from years past where the OLD was still 135mm with no slots in the frame. However, it seems that these Chinese Frame manufacturers took the indexing of the new Thru Axle Frames, but also reduced the OLD inadvertantly...causing the brake rub and cassette rubbing issues. From what I see here, all they did to "fix" the rear spacing/axle issue was to move the brake mounts further out. But it doesn't address the cassette rubbing issue. It may not be a big problem on a 10 speed cassette as you could probably get by, but I believe those who were having the cassette rubbing issues were running 11-speed cassettes.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

neons97 said:


> From what I see here, all they did to "fix" the rear spacing/axle issue was to move the brake mounts further out. But it doesn't address the cassette rubbing issue. It may not be a big problem on a 10 speed cassette as you could probably get by, but I believe those who were having the cassette rubbing issues were running 11-speed cassettes.


I had rub with a 10 speed cassette.


----------



## Rich24 (May 4, 2005)

You had rub with what frame model\number


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## couchman (Dec 2, 2011)

Just as i thought i was getting a handle on this, these last few post have got me questioning what works with what again.

Are there issues with all the frames? I thought the Denfu 190 was issue free. With RF next cinch the spacers would have to be used? And a 190 hub. There are so many competing issues, this is way harder then building a road bike.
I'm trying to line up a frame that works with the RF next cinch crank, and the 65 mm nextie rims, with correct size hub.


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## Yetiski (Nov 15, 2010)

We are trying to build a 177ta framed bike and frames in that size seem to be limited to Salsa. I have the 170qr kit as well for the Formula hubs but nothing is in stock or matches up. The Chinese frames I have found will not tell you hubs that work with their frames. The price is nice but having to make parts to get one of these to work is not worth the effort.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Rich24 said:


> You had rub with what frame model\number


First run IP-010


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Yetiski said:


> We are trying to build a 177ta framed bike and frames in that size seem to be limited to Salsa. I have the 170qr kit as well for the Formula hubs but nothing is in stock or matches up. The Chinese frames I have found will not tell you hubs that work with their frames. The price is nice but having to make parts to get one of these to work is not worth the effort.


Miracle has a 170 frame. Ask them for a better drawing than what is on alibaba.


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

Yetiski said:


> We are trying to build a 177ta framed bike and frames in that size seem to be limited to Salsa. I have the 170qr kit as well for the Formula hubs but nothing is in stock or matches up. The Chinese frames I have found will not tell you hubs that work with their frames. The price is nice but having to make parts to get one of these to work is not worth the effort.


This is one of the reasons I went with Sarma hubs--the end cap choices meant I could match it up regardless of how the frame came.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

couchman said:


> Just as i thought i was getting a handle on this, these last few post have got me questioning what works with what again.


This is why I went with the Framed Alaskan Carbon ($899 for frame only). Aside from the frame being aesthetically pleasing to me, I figured the price was close enough to the Chinese made frames to not want to deal with "warranty" issues with a company on the other side of the world.


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## Yetiski (Nov 15, 2010)

I tried to get them to sell a frame and they said not this year. The problem with the carbon frame they have is wheel spacing 197. The problem with the Chinese frame on the 170 is cassette and rotor with the TA because they did not make it 177 TA.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

OnThaCouch said:


> I figured the price was close enough to the Chinese made frames to not want to deal with "warranty" issues with a company on the other side of the world.


Most of those companies on the other side of the world sort out warranty issues faster and better that a lot of big named companies that have charged you 3 times the price for their local warranty.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

ozzybmx said:


> Most of those companies on the other side of the world sort out warranty issues faster and better that a lot of big named companies that have charged you 3 times the price for their local warranty.


Point taken (e.g. the Specialized Fatboy hub issues taking a while to get sorted). With globalization making everyone essentially closer, these things can get sorted out pretty quickly.

I guess I am viewing buying from a company like Framed as the middle road between the Chinese offerings and say what KHS/9:zero:7/Borealis etc are doing.

Part of the equation for me included having a frame that had all the issues listed in this thread sorted out but was still affordable within my budget.

I am not keen enough to do the mods myself :skep: like others in this thread were able to do. I am an "off the shelf" rider for the most part and could't spare the expense on experimenting with a carbon frame not totally dialed in.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

has anyone received custom painted dengfu frame, just wandering on paint job quality


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

Has anyone tried Xmiplay fat bike rims ? 
Carbon fat bike frames/rims,Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

brankulo said:


> has anyone received custom painted dengfu frame, just wandering on paint job quality


Waiting on my white F&F to arrive, should be next week.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> Waiting on my white F&F to arrive, should be next week.


did you have them do any custom graphics too or just do the whole thing in one color?


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

why paint cf?


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

fishwrinkle said:


> why paint cf?


Why not ?

I have plenty of black, black or black CF frames, wheels and components around here to remind me it comes in black UD, 3K, 12k with a clear coat or matte.

Maybe raw CF is your thing, frankly I think that having 2-3 wholly black bikes and calling them "stealth" gets a bit boring after a while... get a bit of colour in your life there fishwrinkle


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

brankulo said:


> did you have them do any custom graphics too or just do the whole thing in one color?


Completely matte white frame and forks, I plan to do up some decal to break the up the frame whiteness... thinking of keeping it honest and using the letters "FM" from the frame part code.

Didnt fancy the whole red, black dengfu colour splash :eekster:


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

After i had my matte white frame a while now it look like ****  think i have to re spray it and get a clear coat.just a little warning


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

^y paint cf? i'm not a color hater there oz, i like color. i've seen several painted cf parts fail in the paint dept.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Just look on the Nextie wheel thread, I had a set of fluro 90mm rims done, 4 months later they are pastel green with blotches of white... massive FAIL of non UV stabilized paint.

Rims will need unlaced, sanded down and painted/clearcoated to look half usable again.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Seen that.but is dirt that i cant wash off,tried everything.my nexties are clearcoated and they are still nice


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

bummer about the paint failing. in regards to white bikes. i have white mojo hd, glossy, i assume the paint/clear coat job is good quality, still there are some dirt spots i am not able to get rid of. i am pretty sure it is worse with matte finish. i never had this problem with other color bikes. maybe its the white bike thing. how would they be different, i have no idea.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

mortenste said:


> After i had my matte white frame a while now it look like ****  think i have to re spray it and get a clear coat.just a little warning


just out of curiosity, do you mind posting an image?


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

taken after a hour of washing last night.


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

brankulo said:


> bummer about the paint failing. in regards to white bikes. i have white mojo hd, glossy, i assume the paint/clear coat job is good quality, still there are some dirt spots i am not able to get rid of. i am pretty sure it is worse with matte finish. i never had this problem with other color bikes. maybe its the white bike thing. how would they be different, i have no idea.


I have a white Specialize Epic that still looks good after 4 seasons. Just a few scraps and chips.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

White matte?


----------



## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

Wow. I hope my glossy finish protects the paint better than the matte jobs.


----------



## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

my IP-018 arrived today. It took a while to ship, but it looks very nice.
It is very light at 1400 grams for the frame and 640 grams for the fork, without feeling flimsy

Will build it up over the coming weeks & keep you all posted.


----------



## Rich24 (May 4, 2005)

I'm about to buy the same frame.
What crank is compatible with a 120mm BB and a 197mm rear spacing?

- 1X10
- 2x10 will need a Front Derailleur Fat Bike Mount?

Thanks


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Speaking of painted carbon, here are my blue painted light-bicycle rims. Could just be a stock photo, but they are saying these are them and they are ready to ship:


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

What you payed for the rims?


----------



## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

I payed $278 for each rim when I bought mine. I didn't know Light Bicycle did painting of their carbon rims? I would have been tempted to order mine in white glossy instead of matte black if I knew this.


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

Hi All ...anyone recommend another 197 /100 bsa bb frame other than the Dengfu FM190 ...ordered 3 weeks ago and still waiting on them to ship :-/ (is this normal length of time to wait??) so thinking of cancelling the order???


----------



## sj14 (Oct 17, 2014)

Greetings from tropical sunny island, Singapore.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Looks good SJ14, give us a parts rundown !


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

andy586 said:


> Hi All ...anyone recommend another 197 /100 bsa bb frame other than the Dengfu FM190 ...ordered 3 weeks ago and still waiting on them to ship :-/ (is this normal length of time to wait??) so thinking of cancelling the order???


Contact them, Wendy seems to be the contact person. She said my frame would ship last week, I left it till yesterday (Monday) to contact her and let her know I had recieved no shipping conformation, immediate reply was it will ship tomorrow and tracking will be emailed. Expecting tracking info today.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mortenste said:


> What you payed for the rims?


Paint is an extra $60 (total, not per rim), which I read on one of the chinese carbon sites costs almost nothing to do, so I'm sure it's huge profit.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Paint is an extra $60 (total, not per rim)


Wow... my frame and forks were $40 from dengfu, Nextie do the paint for nothing on wheels... but maybe only when you get the NEXTIE decal.


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

So.. ive been following this thread for a while and have read through quite a bit... my question is this I have on order a bikesdirect nighttrain bullet with 120mm bluto. It has 2x samox cranks with 10mm spacers and 100mm bsa bottom bracket.. 190mmx12 thru axle... I was thinking about buying a carbon fatbike frame and swapping everything over.. what frame would work best for that? Oh an it comes with 80mm single wall weinman rims and 4.5" snowshoe tires..


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

manchvegas said:


> So.. ive been following this thread for a while and have read through quite a bit... my question is this I have on order a bikesdirect nighttrain bullet with 120mm bluto. It has 2x samox cranks with 10mm spacers and 100mm bsa bottom bracket.. 190mmx12 thru axle... I was thinking about buying a carbon fatbike frame and swapping everything over.. what frame would work best for that? Oh an it comes with 80mm single wall weinman rims and 4.5" snowshoe tires..


Would also like to know this. I have the same bike on order and am looking to get a carbon frame and swap parts.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

so has anyone been able to fit bluto on ip-010 frame. i remember tlundberg posted image of this frame with bluto installed, but the bike was not complete and i have not seen any post from him since. sounds like 5mm crown race from niner might be the way to go, just wandering if anyone has actually tried to go this route.


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

manchvegas said:


> So.. ive been following this thread for a while and have read through quite a bit... my question is this I have on order a bikesdirect nighttrain bullet with 120mm bluto. It has 2x samox cranks with 10mm spacers and 100mm bsa bottom bracket.. 190mmx12 thru axle... I was thinking about buying a carbon fatbike frame and swapping everything over.. what frame would work best for that? Oh an it comes with 80mm single wall weinman rims and 4.5" snowshoe tires..


Keep in mind the Night Train is a 197x12 rear thru axle. Not 190x12. This will significantly change frame compatibility. Yes, the end caps are interchangeable on those Novatec hubs...but you should be aware that it will not just bolt right up to a 190x12 rear. And you will likely have to order directly from Novatec. You won't find them at your LBS.


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

The bikesdirect website lists the frame as 190x12.. am i missing something?


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Lists the hubs as 190x12 thru axle and lists the frame as the same.. here is the link.. http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-nighttrain-bluto-fatbike.htm


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

manchvegas said:


> The bikesdirect website lists the frame as 190x12.. am i missing something?


Here's info from an email I got a while back from BD. I was asking about the rear hub spacing as I was having a wheelset built. It is off of their spec sheet for the Night Train. Highlight was BDs.

Hi Tom,

R/HUB(FH) 
T NOVATEC
*D202SB-X12MM ALLOY REAR DISC HUB 32H.OLD:12x197MM* , 4 CHINESE BEARINGS,2RS , FOR SNOW BIKE , W/O THROUGH PARTS , POLISH ANOD. BLACK W/NOVATEC LOGO 
Thanks, 
Chris


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

manchvegas said:


> The bikesdirect website lists the frame as 190x12.. am i missing something?


Check the Night Train/Sturgis thread on this forum. This has already been discussed, with a confirmation email from Bikes Direct that they will indeed be 19*7*x12.


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Just read through the 13 pages of the sturgis/nighttrain thread and saw no such email with info that its a 197 rear spacing as compared to the 190 listed on the site.. I will pose the question over there i guess to get confirmation..


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

manchvegas said:


> Just read through the 13 pages of the sturgis/nighttrain thread and saw no such email with info that its a 197 rear spacing as compared to the 190 listed on the site.. I will pose the question over there i guess to get confirmation..


Check the Bikes Direct thread. #3440-3442

I posted the initial question. Onthacouch (who also responded below) responded with the information he posted below.

So if you don't believe what we've posted here, you won't believe what's posted there either as it's the same two people with the same information.

This is what we have to put up with buying a bd bike or chinese carbon frames. We can't 100% rely on what the seller has posted. It's more unlikely that one of the big brands would make such mistakes on their websites/literature.


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

OnThaCouch said:


> Here's info from an email I got a while back from BD. I was asking about the rear hub spacing as I was having a wheelset built. It is off of their spec sheet for the Night Train. Highlight was BDs.
> 
> Hi Tom,
> 
> ...





manchvegas said:


> Just read through the 13 pages of the sturgis/nighttrain thread and saw no such email with info that its a 197 rear spacing as compared to the 190 listed on the site.. I will pose the question over there i guess to get confirmation..


Above is what I got directly from BD about the hubs/spacing.


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

neons97 said:


> Keep in mind the Night Train is a 197x12 rear thru axle. Not 190x12. This will significantly change frame compatibility. Yes, the end caps are interchangeable on those Novatec hubs...but you should be aware that it will not just bolt right up to a 190x12 rear. And you will likely have to order directly from Novatec. You won't find them at your LBS.


With this in mind, anyone have any idea what Chinese carbon frame would offer the most compatibility with the BD Sturgis Bullet parts?


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

ozzybmx said:


> Contact them, Wendy seems to be the contact person. She said my frame would ship last week, I left it till yesterday (Monday) to contact her and let her know I had recieved no shipping conformation, immediate reply was it will ship tomorrow and tracking will be emailed. Expecting tracking info today.


Any luck with your order ozzy?... been waiting now 3 weeks for them to send ...getting to the point of contacting paypal and requesting a refund...

ps been trying to contact "wendy" but no answer the last 4 days....


----------



## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

*Speeder FBO2 Finally Moving*


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

davedivided said:


> View attachment 935137
> 
> View attachment 935138
> 
> View attachment 935139


Whoa!!!!! Details please.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Was there any problems with the rear spacing on this?


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

*Dillinger 5's*

Just an FYI guys, Did a test fit this evening and Dillinger 5's fit the IP-010 with room to spare on 65mm rims. Ready for snow!


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

dvn said:


> Just an FYI guys, Did a test fit this evening and Dillinger 5's fit the IP-010 with room to spare on 65mm rims. Ready for snow!
> View attachment 935157
> 
> View attachment 935156


whats up with your chain ?


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

mortenste said:


> whats up with your chain ?


Looks like there is no cassette yet.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

OnThaCouch said:


> Looks like there is no cassette yet.


Correct. It was a test fit. Summer setup went right back on.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

So you dont know if the chain will touch the tire in first gear?


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

I am talking to justin at speedercycling about the fb-02 frame about the rear spacing problems.but he says that is nothing wrong with the rear spacing,have any of you guys been in contact with speeder about the problem?


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## couchman (Dec 2, 2011)

Since I've been getting quotes I have a few observations: 

everyone say's their frame is either ok, or corrected.

The price of the 65 mm rims is best at Nextie. However, Q2 sells the same 65 rims, I guess, for a more, but they are willing to actually build a set of wheels with them, where as Nextie only sells the rims. Q2 is using a picture of mortenste's, and some one else's built up bikes on their page? but the rims are clearly branded Nextie, , wtf?

Sometimes i get the feeling it's just 3 guys in one room..
damn it, someone should do a group buy.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

I actually sent a mail to q2 cycling and ask why they use my picture,but no answer.nextie did ask about permission to use the picture at least.i think is nextie who build there rims and the others are just sellers.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Nextie build wheels to


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## couchman (Dec 2, 2011)

They do.... thanks.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

mortenste said:


> So you dont know if the chain will touch the tire in first gear?


It won't. It's 1x10. It'll be fine. I have nearly 5/8" clearance with my 4" tires on 80mm rims.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

couchman said:


> They do.... thanks.


Yes,hope hubs


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

dvn said:


> It won't. It's 1x10. It'll be fine.


ok,i have the same frame and 1×10.but it looks tight


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

*Fbo2*

Ok. Let's see:
FBO2 SpeederCycle Frame and fork
Their head set
Fatback 90mm rims
Speedway 190 Rear 135 front hub 
Vee Mission Rubber Tubeless
Raceface Turbine Crankset 28 tooth chainring(This is the only crank that will work with this fram and spacing that I know of, I tried a XX carbon crank and it rubbed the chain stays.
SRAM X7 rear derailleur
Sram x10 grip shifter
Magura Marta SL Brakes
Thomson Stem and Seat Post
Generic Carbon Bars.

That pretty much wraps it. 
I rode it around a little today. Feels pretty good to be on fat again after a couple of years away. It weighs about half of what my Pugs weighed. (Not sure but I think it is around 25 pounds?)


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

was the rear spacing on the frame right davedivided ?


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

I posted a fix that I had to do as a result of the rear brake caliper mounts being set 4mm to far inboard to the hub. I have access to a lathe so I took off some of the brake rotor face to make it fit. If you aren't a machinist your screwed. I don't know if they have corrected this or not? I do know that crank selection is pretty limited. The bottom bracket shell is pretty narrow so I was limited to Raceface Turbine cranks, I am good with that but others may not find that to agreeable?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

morten, speeder knows about the issue, the problem has been fixed though. at least the one with brake mounts. some still report issue with rub on drive side. it doesnt rub o mine but it is close.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

no they haven't fixed it,was just talking to speeder cycling.but they say there is no problem with the rear spacing  i used two spacers with holes to make it fit,but have to force the wheel on.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

therei s no problem because it has been fixed. i have communicated with Sarah before my frame was shipped and she said the factory has revised the mold to deal with rotor mounts. the frame i have from them is fixed. i dont have to do any spacers or hub mods, rotor fits no problem.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

brankulo said:


> morten, speeder knows about the issue, the problem has been fixed though. at least the one with brake mounts. some still report issue with rub on drive side. it doesnt rub o mine but it is close.


here is the answer i got.

Hi Morten,

No, we do not have this problem as far. I know many people have this problem in the bike forum, but that is another frame model from other manufacturer, it just looks similar.

Which model and size of brake rotor you use? Do you have any photos to show the problem?

Cheers


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

brankulo said:


> therei s no problem because it has been fixed. i have communicated with Sarah before my frame was shipped and she said the factory has revised the mold to deal with rotor mounts. the frame i have from them is fixed. i dont have to do any spacers or hub mods, rotor fits no problem.


 have you built up your frame ?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

mortenste said:


> here is the answer i got.
> 
> Hi Morten,
> 
> ...


thats bs. there is no similar looking frame lol.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Do you understand why i get a little bit confused ;-)


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

I read through this whole thread today and I now get the whole spacing thing.. so with that under my belt I still have a few unanswered questions.. 
1... has anyone got an updated frame from peter at xmiplay? 
2... Im assuming with my nighttrain parts I would want the. IP-018 frame?
3... have any of these frames been fitted with a bluto other than the Q2 aka KHS/framed frame that I cant buy as i live in the states?


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## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

*IP-018 frame nice product but Lou doesn't clear*













I have the ip-018 frame 16" frame from Peter at xmiplay. I looks identical to your FB-01 frame but when I tried to fit a Lou it rubs on the lower chain stays. It clears by maybe 1mm on each side but it is just to close to ride. Other than that the frame is well made and handles excellent. I have it set up with a Bluto and that needed a special cane creek crown race to have it clear the frame when the fork is turned sideways. Also have xmiplay 80mm carbon rims and set up tubeless with Nates. Needed two layers of gorilla tape but got them to seal. A very minor side wall leak of stans but I think it might be more of a problem with the tire and not the rim. Bike with good stuff on it weighs in at 29 pounds with pedals.


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

What size are the tires your running? Sorry, I'm a newb.. don't know what size the nates are. I am getting snowshoe 4.5's that come on my bike and am wondering if they will fit the IP-018 frame...


----------



## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

What's the consensus on the ican SN01? I've read a number of these posts and have been looking for thru axle front/rear. Not sure I like the 135x15 front axle, but 197x12 is nice in the rear. Any other specific frames working out well for others (without setup issues)?


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## Pig Bodine (Sep 1, 2009)

vin-sanity said:


> I have the ip-018 frame 16" frame from Peter at xmiplay. I looks identical to your FB-01 frame but when I tried to fit a Lou it rubs on the lower chain stays. It clears by maybe 1mm on each side but it is just to close to ride. Other than that the frame is well made and handles excellent. I have it set up with a Bluto and that needed a special cane creek crown race to have it clear the frame when the fork is turned sideways. Also have xmiplay 80mm carbon rims and set up tubeless with Nates. Needed two layers of gorilla tape but got them to seal. A very minor side wall leak of stans but I think it might be more of a problem with the tire and not the rim. Bike with good stuff on it weighs in at 29 pounds with pedals.


Thanks! Finally a picture of this frame with a bluto. Whats the specific Crown race you used? Also are using the stock headset that they sent with the bike? Were you using the Lou on the 80mm rim? Great build and it looks good!


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Are all the chinese carbon fat bike frames designed around a suspension fork?


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

mortenste said:


> I am talking to justin at speedercycling about the fb-02 frame about the rear spacing problems.but he says that is nothing wrong with the rear spacing,have any of you guys been in contact with speeder about the problem?


I posted my build a few posts ago--FB02 in a 170 rear. I am running XT 11-36 10speed and TRP spyke brakes--no issues with the frame and spacing.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Then you have the new frame.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

anyone received dengfu frame recently? impressions? thinking of getting another frame for wife. i already have FB02 but thinking about FM190 to keep it interesting.


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## couchman (Dec 2, 2011)

Ok. Getting a lot closer to dialing it down. I think i have narrowed the options down to:
the Nextie 65 mm rims w Hope 135-15/190-12 TA hubs, build by Nextie. 
The F-FB02 frame by speedercycling, with 190 rear to match the hub. With a 100 bb bsa, I shouldn't have any issues with a crank and spacing. I am hoping to get a RF next sl, but maybe something else 1 x.

The other option could be the Q2 frame with q2 65 mm rims build by them with chosen hubs. It's tempting to source from one place, But I haven't seen anyone with their stuff so far, and if they are the same rims from nextie, it might be better to stay with Nextie since lots of people are riding them now.


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

couchman said:


> Ok. Getting a lot closer to dialing it down. I think i have narrowed the options down to:
> the Nextie 65 mm rims w Hope 135-15/190-12 TA hubs, build by Nextie.
> The F-FB02 frame by speedercycling, with 190 rear to match the hub. With a 100 bb bsa, I shouldn't have any issues with a crank and spacing. I am hoping to get a RF next sl, but maybe something else 1 x.
> 
> The other option could be the Q2 frame with q2 65 mm rims build by them with chosen hubs. It's tempting to source from one place, But I haven't seen anyone with their stuff so far, and if they are the same rims from nextie, it might be better to stay with Nextie since lots of people are riding them now.


If you're in North america, then the only way to get the q2 frame is through khs or framed.


----------



## couchman (Dec 2, 2011)

they quoted me a shipping price.
Perhps there was a mistake, and they didn't realize my location, although they should have.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm pretty sure their licensing agreement prevents them from selling it to a north American address.


----------



## couchman (Dec 2, 2011)

fair enough, no arguement. If anything, it makes my choice a little easier now.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

couchman said:


> fair enough, no arguement. If anything, it makes my choice a little easier now.


how much did Q2 quote you for the frame? they quoted me $1000 for frame and fork shipped. given that framed frame is $900 and if you get fork from china you come pretty much even.


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## kylehampton (Mar 25, 2004)

I leaned on this thread quite a bit in making my decision to go with the factory direct option.

And I always appreciated the pics so here are mine.

Custom Gamecock colors on this IP-010. Beat the Vols.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

nice


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## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

Pig Bodine said:


> Thanks! Finally a picture of this frame with a bluto. Whats the specific Crown race you used? Also are using the stock headset that they sent with the bike? Were you using the Lou on the 80mm rim? Great build and it looks good!


The crown race spacer needed for the Bluto fork to clear the ip-018 is a cane creek HD-8880 which gives an additional 3mm height. The headset I got from Peter at xmiplay didn't work. When you tightened it up it got all bound up, tried some spacers but could get it to work. Others have had the same problem. Something wrong with the upper bearing cover design. I just bought an integrated Richey headset and it worked.


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## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

I think the 4.5 snowshoe tires will work on the IP-018 frame. The Nates are 3.8 and they clear by a lot. The surly lou 4.8 doesn't fit. It fits in the frame and spins but there is no clearance on the bottom chain stays. I hope that Peter at xmiplay can change the frame mold and give 10mm more clearance is one area, that would make this ip-018 frame able to handle all tire options.


----------



## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

Does anyone know if the SN-01 is the exact same frame as he ip-018


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## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

Does anyone know if the FB01 and the SN-01 and the IP-018 frames are identical. I saw a post on the form where someone had a lou rear tire mounted on a FB01 frame. When I put a Lou in the ip-018 frame it didn't clear.


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

vin-sanity said:


> I think the 4.5 snowshoe tires will work on the IP-018 frame.


I think you are right. I have more than 10mm clearance on my HuskerDus which is 230mm bead to bead. The 4.5 snowshoe are 240mm bead to bead which translate to an increase in diameter of 3-4mm. 
I want to try the Ground Control for more volume in the rear...maybe it will fit with some lug trimmingl

EDIT!
I see you have the IP018, I have the IP010


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Great thanks vin-sanity my motobecane nighttrain comes with those tires (the snowshoe 4.5) Im hoping to swap everything completely over to the IP-018 frame once i get my nighttrain and confirm that my bluto has enough steertube to run on the IP-018 frame. Could you tell me the minimum amount of steer tube needed on your frame? Btw.. how much are people paying for the Ip018 frames? And are they availabke without the carbon fork ? Or do they make one with 150mm spacing? Sorry.. lots of Qs


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## djmartwing (Sep 30, 2014)

I just ordered an 18" IP-018 frame from xmi. The frame was $420, shipping was $90 and I had to pay the 4% paypal fee. I didn't order a fork cause I'm going to put a lefty on it. I picked up some 80mm hoops too for 265 a piece.


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## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

I think you will need a minimum of 7 inches steer tube length for the Bluto installed on the IP-018 and as I mentioned you will definitely need the cane creek HD-8880 3mm crown race otherwise the Bluto compression knob will hit the frame

I would love it if Peter could make these minor frame mold adjustments to 3mm to the bottom of the frame bottom race (so the Bluto fork fits with out that spacer) and to adjust the width of the bottom chain stays (+10 mm each side near the crank area) so the Surly Lou 4.8 tire will fit.

If he can fix those 2 things this frame can then do anything in Fatbike world


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## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

I have the IP-018 and I think I would be a little concerned for installing a lefty as the amount of carbon material around the bearing races seems a little on the light side. The Bluto would appear to put forces equally around the frame bearing race areas, I would fear the extra forces associated with a lefty might be a little much for this frame.

Just a thought


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## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

vin-sanity said:


> View attachment 935224
> View attachment 935225
> I have the ip-018 frame 16" frame from Peter at xmiplay. I looks identical to your FB-01 frame but when I tried to fit a Lou it rubs on the lower chain stays. It clears by maybe 1mm on each side but it is just to close to ride. Other than that the frame is well made and handles excellent. I have it set up with a Bluto and that needed a special cane creek crown race to have it clear the frame when the fork is turned sideways. Also have xmiplay 80mm carbon rims and set up tubeless with Nates. Needed two layers of gorilla tape but got them to seal. A very minor side wall leak of stans but I think it might be more of a problem with the tire and not the rim. Bike with good stuff on it weighs in at 29 pounds with pedals.


Here are some pictures of the Surly Lou on Fatback UMA 90 rims. You can see how close the tire lugs are to the frame


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

just fyi, peter doesnt design, nor he fabricates frames. he just sells the product, like many others.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

vin-sanity said:


> Here are some pictures of the Surly Lou on Fatback UMA 90 rims. You can see how close the tire lugs are to the frame
> View attachment 936148


yeah, thats pretty close but still usable. looks like denfu frame might be the best bet, if you need to run lou on 90 or 100mm


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## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

Thanks, any idea who the manufactuer is, i would like to try and communicate and see if the mold can be changed to fix these small problems


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Do they make any carbon forks that are 150mm spaced? I have no need for a 135 spaced as I have the bluto and a 150mm spaced hub to fit. But would be.nice to have a carbon fork for winter snow riding..


----------



## crocodilekyle (Mar 28, 2011)

*100mm BSA Frame/crankset compatibility?*

Does anybody know if the Xiamen IP-010 frame can run a typical 100mm BSA crankset originally designed for 170mm rear end like a Sram X9 or XX1 or ? I would run it as a 1x10 with a Wolftooth chainring. I am debating between the FM190 from Dengfu and the Xiamen frames. If I don't have to buy a new bb and crankset I would buy the IP-010 today, but if I have to get a 120mm crankset and use spacers, then?

Thanks to everyone who has posted builds. It makes it easier to see what works. If anyone else has built up a Chinese carbon fat bike, please post your hub and crank choices because that seems to be the deciding factor for me and others. Thanks!


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

manchvegas said:


> Do they make any carbon forks that are 150mm spaced? I have no need for a 135 spaced as I have the bluto and a 150mm spaced hub to fit. But would be.nice to have a carbon fork for winter snow riding..


Framed Alaskan 150mm spaced carbon fork:
Alaskan Carbon Fork | Framed Bikes

Make sure to get an axle too. The bluto axle won't work with the framed fork.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

manchvegas said:


> Do they make any carbon forks that are 150mm spaced? I have no need for a 135 spaced as I have the bluto and a 150mm spaced hub to fit. But would be.nice to have a carbon fork for winter snow riding..


LaMere cycles fat fork: LaMere Cycles Custom Carbon Bicycles


----------



## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

Here's mine with RF Ride crank. Didn't even know I had 120mm crankset. What to do now?


----------



## crocodilekyle (Mar 28, 2011)

I think they run two 10mm spacers, one on each side of the frame. I would have thought they came with your crankset? If not, I imagine Raceface should have them. Is the sleeve for the bottom bracket longer? 

Are you running those cranks on a 100mm bb like the IP-010? If so, do you have a 100mm crankset designed for a 170mm rear end you could throw in there and see if it hits the frame? OR, measure outside to outside on the chain stays where the crankset passes the chain stay? I really want to know if I can reuse an existing set of cranks. If not, I'll get the 120mm frame, so I can skip the spacers.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

simen said:


> Here's mine with RF Ride crank. Didn't even know I had 120mm crankset. What to do now?


Whats your frame Simen ?


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

manchvegas said:


> Do they make any carbon forks that are 150mm spaced? I have no need for a 135 spaced as I have the bluto and a 150mm spaced hub to fit. But would be.nice to have a carbon fork for winter snow riding..


q2 cycling offers 15x150mm spaced fork for around $100 + shipping


----------



## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

It's IP-010 170mm frame.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> Whats your frame Simen ?


that looks like ip 010, ozzy have you received your dengfu yet?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Cheers for that, I have the tracking number for it, looks like it's just arrived in Australia. Should be delivered in a couple of days...


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

thinking of pulling trigger on one too


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks.. that's good to know on the Q2 fork. I couldn't find any pricing on the "framed" carbon fork.. On another note.. as anyone tried a 170mm spaced crankset on the IP-018 frame? does it clear the chainstays? Or do you definitely need a 190 spaced set?


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

I'll do a bit of a report when it arrives as I have had no other info on the frame, meaning I have no seat post or seat clamp as I don't have the measurements.

Hoping my 170mm Next SL's fit with the chainring flipped.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> I'll do a bit of a report when it arrives as I have had no other info on the frame, meaning I have no seat post or seat clamp as I don't have the measurements.
> 
> Hoping my 170mm Next SL's fit with the chainring flipped.


170mm arm length or 170mm rear spaced? you know spindle is replaceable on cinch models right? you can get 190mm spindle for around $60


----------



## crocodilekyle (Mar 28, 2011)

The Framed carbon fork is $349 on sale... Rather spendy in my opinion. The link is below. A Hope tech told me that there is an axle conversion kit available to convert a 135mm axle to 150mm. I would look into that if you have Hope hubs. I haven't priced it out or even found it online, but? I think there is something similar available for Salsa hubs and others, too.

On Sale Framed Alaskan Carbon Bike Fork


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Yes I know the spindle is swappable... just another thing I dont need to change if it fits though.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

They are 170mm spaced or 100mm spindle.


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

no, not 170mm arm length.. I'm talking spacing. Having the 170mm crankset (which would be a 100mm spindle correct?) would be nice on the hips and knees instead of the wider... 

Yes, the q2 fork sounds good, the framed and the lemere or whatever are way too pricey for me


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Anybody know of a good frame bag for the fb-02 frame?


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

probably need custom bag for that frame. or if you are into it you can make your own. lots of info online. i have been making my own bike bags for a while, its fun.


----------



## NikeMan (Nov 4, 2014)

Currently looking into obtaining a chinese fatty(bike) and just have to give you guys props for this thread *claps*

Loads of info and still just soaking things up. I'm 160cm(5" 2?) with an inseam of 70-71(27-28"?) and I think maybe a 15.5 - 16" would be the right choice?

As comparison I've seen a mukluk 2 2014 going for 2000€(2500$) so that's kinda what I'm looking into spending on this build.

Are there any negative sides going with a smaller framed chinese fatty, like any clearance issues or hard to get components. FYI i've never done a complete build before 

I'll be kinda using it as a whole year round commuter and cruiser/adventurer. 

First post! 

*EDIt*
As it is I just got a message from our customs office as I asked about shipping stuff from China and they told me there might be a tax of 60% of the purchase price depending on if you "get caught", so my chinese build will not happen  

Have to say a real bummer cause I was really digging what some of you have built here and I was salivating to get a try myself.

This in Finland


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

brankulo said:


> probably need custom bag for that frame. or if you are into it you can make your own. lots of info online. i have been making my own bike bags for a while, its fun.


Ask my grandma maybe


----------



## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

NikeMan said:


> *EDIt*
> As it is I just got a message from our customs office as I asked about shipping stuff from China and they told me there might be a tax of 60% of the purchase price depending on if you "get caught", so my chinese build will not happen
> 
> This in Finland


What is their justification for a 60% import tax?!?
And I thought the Austrians were crooks!


----------



## NikeMan (Nov 4, 2014)

I don't know how to translate it. In finnish it is polkumyyntivero and its 48%. Them there is the basic 4,7€ and then ALV(vat?) 24%. So not really 60% I guess 

Polkumyyntivero vaguely translates to "cheap a** stuff you can get elsewhere but not here, hence we need you to pay extra".

I'm pretty sure you could get it by the customs without a problem and I know people have ordered stuff and only paid the normal tax(~28%) but still the order would sum up so much that I kinda don't feel like finding out for myself.

Polkumyynti = trampled sale

Will be lurking this thread though


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

The value on the receipt is $50 which is used to calculate the tax.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

So if you buy something cheap overseas, they make sure its not worth it... I understand the reasoning but that's crazy. Do they tax the gap though ? So chi frame is marked €50, similar carbon frame in Finland is €1000, so Tax you on €950 ?

We get to buy items under $1000 before getting any tax, so in the case of a chi bike where even the frame is under $1000, the whole bike can be built from overseas with blinged parts and cost nothing in import taxes.

Doesn't do much for the Aussie bike industry... but neither does the prices here.


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Adroit Rider said:


> The value on the receipt is $50 which is used to calculate the tax.


Problem with this is that this is also the value that the shipping company will insure/value it for. So unless the seller is well-known with good customer support and willing to send you another frame at no cost upon damage, you have very minimal recourse with the shipping company as well.

i'm okay with $50 purchases stated as $5. But I wouldn't want these frames/forks in such a large box to be declared at a $50 value.


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

http://salsacycles.com/culture/introducing_bucksaw_carbon

When can I get a frame for $550?


----------



## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

I have been doing some research and am leaning towards the FM190 from DengFu. My question is, will a 4.8 tire fit in a 190mm frame with a 100mm bottom bracket. I thought I read that the xmiplay 190 frame would not fit a 4.8 tire.

Thanks


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i assume the 4.8 tire in question here is Lou. i am thinking it will fit FM190, and hoping as well as i am ordering it. i have sold my fb 02 to be able to run bigger tires.


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Ip-018 (190mm ) from.xmiplay is a 120mm bottom bracket. So far we have seen.pics of a dillinger 5 and lou as not really fitting..


----------



## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Doe anyone have an FM190 and a Lou or similar 4.8 tire with pictures or results?

Also, has anyone tried the Chinese Fat suspension forks? I thought I some one, but can't remember from who.


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

mucky said:


> Doe anyone have an FM190 and a Lou or similar 4.8 tire with pictures or results?
> .


i believe ozzy is building one with bud/lou on 90mm nexties


----------



## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

cavo said:


> i believe ozzy is building one with bud/lou on 90mm nexties


Thanks cavo

@ ozzy, any update with fitment


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Will do tomorrow hopefully. 5 days to get there from China... then 7 days laying around airports and post orifices here :madmax:


----------



## sj14 (Oct 17, 2014)

*Cracked rear Carbon Rim*

Fat bike was completed only abt 2 weeks ago. Had not brought it into the trails yet, just some leisure rides in the park and this morning, pissed as found a cracked at the rear rim? What happened? Any idea guys? Bought this 80mm carbon rims from Dengfubike and is set up tubeless with Vee Tires V8 4.0. Any rational explanations? Have emailed Dengfu and awaiting their reply.


----------



## emp? (Sep 8, 2009)

how many psi was in that? those rims are probably only rated for 20psi max at a guess, those wide tyres put huge side load on the rims


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## sj14 (Oct 17, 2014)

emp? said:


> how many psi was in that? those rims are probably only rated for 20psi max at a guess, those wide tyres put huge side load on the rims


Definately no more than 20psi mate. And its just a 4.0.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

sj14 said:


> pissed as found a cracked at the rear rim? What happened? Any idea guys? Any rational explanations?


Lots of questions, you were riding ! Is it only fractured on 1 side ?

I'm taking it you did not noticeably ding the rim so it might be excessive spoke tension or a rim defect.


----------



## sj14 (Oct 17, 2014)

Yes man. Only 1 side and there seem to have another small crqck abt 15cm away. What u reckon man?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Couldn't even guess. They always look like its taken a hit but without knowing the wheel, spoke tension and what way you were riding, its impossible to tell.

Lets hope Dengfu comes good.


----------



## sj14 (Oct 17, 2014)

Yup man. Its hard to tell as I bought it as a complete wheelset from Dengfu. Unless there is a rock garden along the parks that I rode, then it looks more like a manufacturer fault.


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## techfersure (Dec 17, 2010)

How about a thorough review from you guys with built up Chinese fatties! seems geometry leans more to trail which is what I would prefer.


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## fat beastard (Aug 20, 2014)

Salsa has the new fully suspended fatty Androit Rider mentioned. I am goingbto hold off on thecarbon build until I see a full sispension that will take a 5.0. Who will be the first to manufacture this?


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## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

sj14 said:


> Fat bike was completed only abt 2 weeks ago. Had not brought it into the trails yet, just some leisure rides in the park and this morning, pissed as found a cracked at the rear rim? What happened? Any idea guys? Bought this 80mm carbon rims from Dengfubike and is set up tubeless with Vee Tires V8 4.0. Any rational explanations? Have emailed Dengfu and awaiting their reply.


Let us know how you make out with Dengfu on the wheels. I have the same wheels sitting in my basement just waiting for the frame to show up. I was sent an incorrect frame but with a few photos they realized it and have shipped the correct frame, I hope!

Has anyone else had issues with the Dengfu carbon wheelsets?
Vtmtber


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## sj14 (Oct 17, 2014)

Sure will do..expecting a reply from them soonThey ought to honor their 1 year warranty on these rims.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

Good news, we (Iplay) can assemble carbon fat bike wheels with Bitex hubs, Sapim RACE spokes, Sapim Leader spokes, Sapim CX-Delta spokes,
, Sapim nipples at present, the hubs will be available in 15 days, you know the hubs are made in Taiwan, it should take some time to arrive here.

You may view the hubs details first: 
Bitex : MTB hub,BMX hub,SHOW hub,FOLDING hub,CHILD hub, Wheelchair hub

And we can do Novatec hubs in 40 days. 135x15/190x12/197x12.


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## sj14 (Oct 17, 2014)

vtmtber said:


> Let us know how you make out with Dengfu on the wheels. I have the same wheels sitting in my basement just waiting for the frame to show up. I was sent an incorrect frame but with a few photos they realized it and have shipped the correct frame, I hope!
> 
> Has anyone else had issues with the Dengfu carbon wheelsets?
> Vtmtber


Dengfu just gotten back to me and said in the email;

"Really sorry for that, don't worry. We will responsible for that. I have told my factory the problem and later I will tell you how we will handle it."

Now just have to wait for the next process...


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

mucky said:


> Doe anyone have an FM190 and a Lou or similar 4.8 tire with pictures or results?


Alright, got the frame and forks today. I dont yet have the 197mm hub so cant be 100% but initial measurements with a tape measure puts the gap where Bud/Lou would at just under 140mm, this was verniered on my O'beast at 126mm.

So it looks like Bud will fit, Im hoping these hubs will be here in the next day or 2 so will know for sure then.

Here's the pic of a bud on my Obeast from a couple of years ago, measurements suggest another 7mm each side and with Bud on margelites measuring ~105mm, Bud on 90's measuring ~111mm and Bud on 100's measuring ~115mm its definitely looking promising that Bud on 100's will fit in.

Now, clearing the chain might be a whole different ballgame.


----------



## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

manchvegas said:


> Thanks.. that's good to know on the Q2 fork. I couldn't find any pricing on the "framed" carbon fork.. On another note.. as anyone tried a 170mm spaced crankset on the IP-018 frame? does it clear the chainstays? Or do you definitely need a 190 spaced set?


I have IP-10, 100mm bb for 170mm rear end crankset (e13 double) fits with about... tada... 0.5mm of clearance .
I've filed the cranks a bit, but the right still marks the chainstay slightly when I pedal out of saddle. I've applied a layer of gorilla tape and it kinda works, but I daresay this is a close call.


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Balor said:


> I have IP-10, 100mm bb for 170mm rear end crankset (e13 double) fits with about... tada... 0.5mm of clearance .
> I've filed the cranks a bit, but the right still marks the chainstay slightly when I pedal out of saddle. I've applied a layer of gorilla tape and it kinda works, but I daresay this is a close call.


So that's probably a definite no on the 170mm spaced cranks on the IP-018 then.. oh, wait.. what am I saying? The IP-018 comes with 120mm bottom bracket spacing.. nevermind.. not a chance. Absolutely need 190 spaced cranks for the IP-018


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> Alright, got the frame and forks today. I dont yet have the 197mm hub so cant be 100% but initial measurements with a tape measure puts the gap where Bud/Lou would at just under 140mm, this was verniered on my O'beast at 126mm.
> 
> So it looks like Bud will fit, Im hoping these hubs will be here in the next day or 2 so will know for sure then.
> 
> ...


so is the frame 197mm spaced actually? what hubs are you getting?


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## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

ozzybmx said:


> Alright, got the frame and forks today. I dont yet have the 197mm hub so cant be 100% but initial measurements with a tape measure puts the gap where Bud/Lou would at just under 140mm, this was verniered on my O'beast at 126mm.
> 
> So it looks like Bud will fit, Im hoping these hubs will be here in the next day or 2 so will know for sure then.
> 
> ...


Are you happy with the frame ? I'm waiting for mine to show up, it was shipped last week. I have the fork and the carbon wheelset and can't wait for the frame to show up. What are you planning to use for cranks and chainring set up?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Using 197mm hope fatsno hubs.

Which frame, the Obeast or the Chi carbon, the Obeast - absolutely, its been an awesome bike and will continue to be as i'm keeping it. The Chi carbon is still a frame hanging on a bike stand, the frame looked ok, the white paint was oversprayed on the brake mounts and there is a very dodgy looking drain hole on the BB shell. Time will tell on the rest of it.


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## smthgfshy (Nov 11, 2010)

I have a couple questions for the masses....

I'm putting together a bike for a friend and am thinking of speedercycling/xmiplay's f-fb01/ip-018. Seems like they have their spacing issues worked out.... Here are my Q's:

1-I want to put a Bluto (120mm) on the frame. Will it work (re. downtube clearance)? 
2-Is this frame 'suspension corrected'?
3-Should/Can I use a Next SL (190mm) crank on it without issue?
4-Any other concerns/things I missed/should be aware of? 

Thanks in advance!! and I apologize if any of this has been covered before....


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## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

Hi

I have the ip-018 frame and the race face next sl crank for 190mm spacing works, just have to buy some race face 2.5mm shims to fit the 120mm bottom bracket. Also have a Bluto on it but to get it to clear the frame I found a cane creek HD-8880 crown race spacer which adds 3mm, without this the compression knob will hit the frame.

I really like the frame, it's good quality and it handles really good

Good luck


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Still no hubs, tracking says they have been "passed to overseas delivery service" days ago.

Here's the frame and forks.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

That is a Nice frameset ozzy


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> Still no hubs, tracking says they have been "passed to overseas delivery service" days ago.
> 
> Here's the frame and forks.


looking good there, really good


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> Using 197mm hope fatsno hubs.
> 
> .


so the rear spacing is 197mm? i keep asking Wendy from dengfu about it as i want to order their chosen hubs too, she keeps telling me it is 190mm spaced. i made it clear i need thru axle, not qr. weird


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

that is the FB-02?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

thats dengfu fm190, ozzy is making it quite obvious


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

Hi guys... great thread. 

I'm curious about the fm190 rear hub spacing also. Jay_RidgeRide is the only user that I can remember on this thread that has a built fm190. His build photos and specs are on page 49. He said he used... "Dengfu FM190 frame and fork 17.5" (190 rear, 135 front)
Dengfu TW001 80mm rims on Chosen hubs."

Makes me think wendy is right...


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

tschewy said:


> Hi guys... great thread.
> 
> I'm curious about the fm190 rear hub spacing also. Jay_RidgeRide is the only user that I can remember on this thread that has a built fm190. His build photos and specs are on page 49. He said he used... "Dengfu FM190 frame and fork 17.5" (190 rear, 135 front)
> Dengfu TW001 80mm rims on Chosen hubs."
> ...


yeah, but if i remember correctly, Jay also mentioned elsewhere in this thread that his frame spacing is 197mm


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks for keeping it straight. Lots to keep track of here. Also on p 49 from Jay

"There was no issues with the rear spacing, just requires 2 3.5mm spacers which isn't ideal but it works" 

"No the spacing is 197mm, the hub i have is 190mm so one spacer each side makes it fit, caliper lined up all ok. "


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ok, so i guess the question is, do the spacers come with hubs? not ideal, as they will be the first thing you loose during trail side repair. anyways, if thats the case, i might need to reconsider hub selection


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## bikewcm (Mar 9, 2009)

I hope i diddnt miss this in there somewhere but i only saw it mentioned 1 time. On the sn01 fram from ican. Does it really have a 120mm BB spacing that is threaded or does it have a 120mm pressfit BB. I need to use a SRAM crankset for power metering so 120mm threaded will not work for me. Any help would be appreciated.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

brankulo said:


> ok, so i guess the question is, do the spacers come with hubs? not ideal, as they will be the first thing you loose during trail side repair. anyways, if thats the case, i might need to reconsider hub selection


I just got a set of wheels with the Powerway M74 hubs. They have interchangeable 190/197 end caps.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dvn said:


> I just got a set of wheels with the Powerway M74 hubs. They have interchangeable 190/197 end caps.
> 
> View attachment 938345


unfortunatelly, dengfu only sells chosen, i would like to get all at same place. where did you get your wheels?


----------



## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

I just realized there is another thread titled..."190mm rear hub for a 197mm frame?". In it Jay said he "Got the axle and the spacers with the frame and wheelset all ordered at the same time through Dengfu from China."

So Dengfu will sell you a 190mm hub and give you a washer to make it all work out.

Dvn, are those 65 or 90mm rims? Didn't you have a set Chosen hubs on your IP-010? What are those for? How do the different hubs compare?


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

tschewy said:


> Dvn, are those 65 or 90mm rims? Didn't you have a set Chosen hubs on your IP-010? What are those for? How do the different hubs compare?


65mm. I do have chosen hubs with 80mm rims and HuDu's on my IP-010 now. I purchased the 65mm set for better clearance on my studded Dillinger 5's for the winter. I haven't run the Powerway hubs yet but they appear to be high quality. I'll see how they hold up this winter.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

brankulo said:


> unfortunatelly, dengfu only sells chosen, i would like to get all at same place. where did you get your wheels?


Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

A bit of confusion here...Excuse the crude drawing.

Here is my take on this and the measurements are only approximate for the explanation.

190mm/197mm frames are exactly the same frames, the only thing that is different are the dropouts. 

If you specify 190mm, this is for QR, this allows 190mm of clamping space between the 2 hub end caps + there is approx 3.5mm of QR spud on both sides, total of 7mm pokes into your dropouts to locate the wheel. Total hub length of approx 197mm (this could be 200mm as the length of the end cap extension spud is not really important)

If you specify 197mm, this is for thru axle rear, this gives 197mm of clamping space between the hub end caps, there is no locating spuds as the axle drops into a recess on the dropouts and the axle itself does the locating.

I stand corrected but I believe this is right.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

in my communication with wendy i asked about different rear spacing options for the frame. she said that spacing is 190 and i can select quick release or thru axle option. this is why i am so confused. ozzy, were you communicating with wendy? did you specifically request 197 spacing? i am at the end of my wits with her. what i want is 197x12 like you and jay have


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Yes, here's the reply from Wendy about axle choice...



> quick release is 135x9mm fork, and frame is 190x12mm
> Axle is 135x15mm fork, and frame is 197x12mm


Now... I put the 190x12mm down as a mistake by her, thinking she meant 190x9mm.

If you want the thru axle, order 197x12mm and get them to send the 2 axles for front and rear for the extra $20, they are not the lightest but they will get me riding until I work out something lighter.

BTW, the Hope hubs arrived an hour ago, both fit in the frame and forks beautifully.


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## Sattvic (Jul 28, 2013)

Does anybody know if the IP-018 will take 29+ - I am guessing yes, but would like someone to confirm before I order the frame. My idea is to build up two wheel sets and run it fat and 29+ depending on what I am doing and what I feel like.

Also, I plan on running this bike singlespeed only.

Anybody know if this will work on the IP-018 (120mm BSA)

Trickstuff

Hoping to use that to tension, but I am not sure if it will make the crank too "wide"? Should I go with the Dengfu at 100mm BSA instead to be safe? I much prefer the IP-018 due to it's slacker HA.

Thanks in advance.


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

dvn said:


> I just got a set of wheels with the Powerway M74 hubs. They have interchangeable 190/197 end caps.
> 
> View attachment 938345


how much did they run you?


----------



## thunderzy (Jul 23, 2010)

Sattvic said:


> Does anybody know if the IP-018 will take 29+ - I am guessing yes, but would like someone to confirm before I order the frame. My idea is to build up two wheel sets and run it fat and 29+ depending on what I am doing and what I feel like.
> 
> Also, I plan on running this bike singlespeed only.
> 
> ...


This is another option for an eccentric out board bb. 
http://www.philwood.com/products/bbpages/philcentric.php


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

So ive pretty much narrowed it down to the IP-018 frame.. as I like the slacker geo and seems like I could still get away with fairly large tires except bud or lou... I would prefer a 100mm bsa bb vs the 120 but no biggy and i know about the extra crown race needed for the bluto to clear... anything else frame wise I should look at before ordering from.peter? And any drawbacks of running a 120mm bluto with the IP-018?


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## couchman (Dec 2, 2011)

I ordered the F-FB02 from speedercycling with 190 rear spacing.
I ordered nextie 65 mm rims with Hope hubs 135-15/190-12 TA
Both should be in by early/mid December.

I plan to get:
the 190 compatible RF Next Sl cranks. Set up 1 x 
Avid BB7 brakes.

I haven't picked up the Rear Mech, cassette or shifter yet. 10 speed I think.


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## Rango (Nov 10, 2014)

Sattvic said:


> Does anybody know if the IP-018 will take 29+ - I am guessing yes, but would like someone to confirm before I order the frame. My idea is to build up two wheel sets and run it fat and 29+ depending on what I am doing and what I feel like.


I just asked Peter if either frame accommodates 29+

His response:



> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for your inquiry!
> 
> ...


----------



## Rango (Nov 10, 2014)

Does anyone know of high-quality, low-cost carbon frame/fork options?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Rango said:


> I just asked Peter if either frame accommodates 29+
> 
> His response:


i dont think peter is good person to ask. you can probably tell from his response


----------



## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

Well, ip010 can take 29+ wheels for sure. I put my front 29+ wheel from my Jones to the rear of ip010 170mm frame just to see clearence (axles were all wrong of course) and there was enough space left. I am thinking od building a proper 29+ rear wheel (177x 12) to run ip010 in both options.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Any pictures of these with 29+ in them?


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

You could buy frames now and go with standard 26" x 4" tires and then by next summer there should be 27.5+ tires around. 27.5" x 3.25" should be the same diameter as 26" x 4". That is the option that I'm planning on with my fat bike as I know it will fit and the geometry will not change.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Are these frames using integrated headsets like the other chinese carbon frames?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

overall diameter of lou is 762mm. just figure out diam. of tire of your choice on 29" rim to see how it compares. this is providing you can fir lou. other diameters can be found here

i think all fat chiners use integrated headsets


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Fat_Burnman said:


> Good info on Surly site if you want diameter sizes / widths:
> http://surlybikes.com/uploads/downloads/SUR_Tire_Geometries.pdf
> 
> 29+ OD of tyre is 773mm
> ...


From another thread.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

would be nice to fit 29" knards for summer riding. i guess it depends how much clearance you have with lou to the seat tube and yoke apex.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

My thought was to run the 29+ with a lowered 80mm fork in one of the slacker frames to bring the BB down but quicken the steering, probably not a bad thing for these bigger tires.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

hiss2 said:


> how much did they run you?


$657 shipped including the 197 end caps


----------



## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Does anyone have the Carbonal Rover frame and fork. Geo specs seem a little different, specifically the TT. About 10mm shorter than the FM-190 and the IP-018. There frame weight seems on par with the others, but the fork appears to be about 200g heavier. Looking for some input,
Thanks


----------



## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

I have a 29+ wheel set on the ip-018. It fits fine in the frame no clearance issues.


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## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

Yes they are integrated headsets. I bought a ritchey integrated headset and it fit in the ip-018 frame, seems OK but did get a little bit of carbon grindings after the bearing race set itself into the frame.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

BUSTED ! 4.8" on 90mm Nexties at 25psi (tube fitted)

The smallest gap between tyre and chainstay is still over 10mm.


----------



## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

ozzybmx, thats the IP 018 right ?
if so, ineed to let the creditcard smoke...;-)


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

It tizz da FM190.


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## emp? (Sep 8, 2009)

holy shite Ozzy that looks so freaking good with white nextie stickers!
must not buy another bike haha


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

ozzybmx said:


> BUSTED ! 4.8" on 90mm Nexties at 25psi (tube fitted)
> 
> The smallest gap between tyre and chainstay is still over 10mm.


Ozzy !

Please stop !

My credit card is a quivering wreck and you're not doing anything to help matters 

I do hope you're not going to have the bike dripping in carbon / ti exotica ? 

Please finish it off with rusty gas pipe junkyard bars, seatpost and bent '80's BMX cranks (I trust by your name you'll have at least one set of these laying around ?)

Anything less and I think I'll crack and end up buying one . 

When it is completed I definitely do NOT wanna read any reports of how light and well it rides 

5" tyres not fitting was my last justification for not getting one.

Damn 

P.S. Just in case you didn't get it NICE BIKE !!!!

Fat Biker


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Cheers, was hoping to finish it before the weekend but got called into work... though the OT might help fund the build


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Hmmm choices choices... I like the geo of the IP-018 a LOT better, but the dengfu fits big tires... You think a 120mm bluto would change the geo of either of these frames? How much was the dengfu fm190 frame?


----------



## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

I think the 120mm would be too long for the ip-018 frame. I have the 100mm Bluto and it pushes out the rake a bit more than I like.


----------



## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

I wish who ever makes the ip-018 frame could make the following changes.

Modify the lower chain stays so that 5.0 tires clear

Add 5mm to the bottom of the head tube so that Bluto clears

Change the rear axle bolt machining depth to leave more carbon material

If they did this you could do anything with this frame


----------



## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

Maybe one more thing make the frame corrected for the 120mm Bluto


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

vin-sanity said:


> I wish who ever makes the ip-018 frame could make the following changes.
> 
> Modify the lower chain stays so that 5.0 tires clear
> 
> ...


I have asked peter about all those things.. his answer was.. "there are no plans to change the mold" So.. it looks like we are stuck for now. I might just wait on a frame till they change, or just bite the bullet an go FM190.. but has anyone tried a bluto on a FM190 yet???


----------



## techfersure (Dec 17, 2010)

vin-sanity said:


> I wish who ever makes the ip-018 frame could make the following changes.
> 
> Modify the lower chain stays so that 5.0 tires clear
> 
> ...


What he said! Tempted to purchase one now but willing to wait for improvements.

Please,an actual review from those who have saddle time!


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Can anyone tell me the STOCK axle to crown measurement on the Dengfu FM-190 frame? A 120mm bluto fork looks to be at 531mm unsagged, and 25% sag would bring it to a 501mm axle to crown. Interested to see what the fm-190 geo was designed around... and how a 120mm fork would change it... So far I like everything about the FM-190 except the geometry of the head angle


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

468 or 480?


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

also, has anyone tried a 100mm spaced crankset running 1x on any of these carbon frames? Such as the dengfu? since it has a 100mm BB?


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

manchvegas said:


> also, has anyone tried a 100mm spaced crankset running 1x on any of these carbon frames? Such as the dengfu? since it has a 100mm BB?


There is definitely one on here, and it only had 0.5mm of clearance between crank and chainstay. And the crank hit the chainstay under power. So beware. Search this thread and you'll be able to contact the owner about which model of frame and crank it is.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

manchvegas said:


> also, has anyone tried a 100mm spaced crankset running 1x on any of these carbon frames? Such as the dengfu? since it has a 100mm BB?


I have an X9 100mm crank on my IP-010. It is close to the chainstays but no rubbing issues.


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

That is a little too close for comfort for me. Especially when you factor in chainstay, bb she'll and crank arm flex under load. 

What's the outside to outside distance of the chainstay in this areas? Just wondering if it is a wide stays or narrow q-factor or both that is contributing to this low clearance.


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Got ya.. ya I think I'll just stick to a 190 spaced crank.. I think Ozzy was gonna try 170 spaced cranks on his FM-190... So, I am still stuck between these 2 frames.. would just like to know how the 120mm bluto would change the GEO of a FM-190..

@ Kidd are you saying the FM190 was based on a 468 or 480mm axle to crown??


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

dvn said:


> $657 shipped including the 197 end caps


These are by far the cheapest 65mm carbon wheels. It would appear though that they only come with a 135mm front hub. 
Any way to adapt the 135 to 150 on the power way hubs?


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

The prints used to be on the eBay ad. For some reason the new ads don't have it. Sorry, I think the a2c is 468mm


----------



## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

manchvegas said:


> ; I think Ozzy was gonna try 170 spaced cranks on his FM-190... So, I am still stuck between these 2 frames..


also looking forward to Ozzys review. about to pull trigger on FM190


----------



## phatbiker (Mar 3, 2004)

*IP-018 in NJ*

hello all. been a LONG time since i've posted anything on mtbr. picked up a IP-018 size 18" from Bella at xmiplay. chose this because of the geometry mostly. very happy with the quality. I was a little worried about the unknowns such as rear hub width, thru axels and bb widths. Some guessing and some research and a little patience was needed. I still need to install the derailleur cable.. but almost done.


----------



## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

phatbiker said:


> hello all. been a LONG time since i've posted anything on mtbr. picked up a IP-018 size 18" from Bella at xmiplay. chose this because of the geometry mostly. very happy with the quality. I was a little worried about the unknowns such as rear hub width, thru axels and bb widths. Some guessing and some research and a little patience was needed. I still need to install the derailleur cable.. but almost done.


Nice. Gonna weigh it?


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

How wide of a tire can the Speeder Cycling FB02 frame fit?

I know there are two versions (190 and 170) but I think they are both 100mm BB.

Is the width of the BB what really determines the clearance of the rear tire?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

And total cost? That's another nice looking fatty, love these things.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

PHeller said:


> How wide of a tire can the Speeder Cycling FB02 frame fit?
> 
> I know there are two versions (190 and 170) but I think they are both 100mm BB.
> 
> Is the width of the BB what really determines the clearance of the rear tire?


i had fb02 but ended up selling it. the problem with the yoke is that it is oddly shaped. i believe if there was a smooth transition from chainstays to yoke, there wouldnt be problem fitting larger tires. however at the transition the angle is too steep, thats why it wouldnt clear side knobs. there was enough room to the apex of the yoke for larger diameter tires.


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

brankulo said:


> i had fb02 but ended up selling it. the problem with the yoke is that it is oddly shaped.


A picture to illustrate brankulos post:







This is the 190mm FB02/IP010 with HuskerDu on 90mm rims and a Chinch crank with 28T. About 12mm clearance between yoke and tyre. There is probably room for some tweener tyres like Snowshoe 4.5, Dillinger 5 or Spezialized GC but I havent tried yet.

Now have a look at the CAD drawing:







Something is not right compared to my picture. It looks to me like they have designed the 190mm frame around the crankset for a 170mm hub?


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## phatbiker (Mar 3, 2004)

aizu1 said:


> Nice. Gonna weigh it?


28lbs exactly with pedals and gear cable installed, finally!


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## mooseboy44 (Mar 8, 2013)

phatbiker said:


> 28lbs exactly with pedals and gear cable installed, finally!


I've been following this thread since the beginning but have never posted. I couldn't help but notice that judging by the 1st of your two pictures, it looks as though you've got Surly fatbike tubes in your tires. You could lose over a pound by using downhill tubes, and over 2lbs by going tubeless, which would bring your bike to under 26 if not even 25 lbs! Overall, sweet looking bike! I like the lines on yours much better than the versions with the sweeping top tube. Thanks for my Friday night bike fix!


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Build complete ! Went together without any issues, just need to buy a new Hope brake hose for the rear as it is not long enough to tie to all the mounting points under the BB, currently stretched over the top of the BB until the new hose arrives.

Yes, Next SL cranks with the 100mm spindle for 170mm frames, there is about 2-3mm on each side, I removed the crank protector boot from drive side but will be able to put it back on as there is not much flex.

Weighed in at 11160g, will be in the 10's when I source some lighter thru axles, the Chi supplied ones are near solid. Not much else I can lighten up on the bike... will go the 4.8" Schwalbe Jumbo Jims when they come out in Jan, that should bring it down to 10kg

Buds on 90mm rims are bloody big tyres !!!


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> Build complete ! Went together without any issues, just need to buy a new Hope brake hose for the rear as it is not long enough to tie to all the mounting points under the BB, currently stretched over the top of the BB until the new hose arrives.
> 
> Yes, Next SL cranks with the 100mm spindle for 170mm frames, there is about 2-3mm on each side, I removed the crank protector boot from drive side but will be able to put it back on as there is not much flex.
> 
> ...


sweet


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

ozzybmx said:


> Buds on 90mm rims are bloody big tyres !!!


Ozzy you just won !

That is *THE* best looking fatbike I have ever seen. 
And thats coming from someone who's personal choice _would_ have been matte black with red accents.

Thanks for the inspiration that there are other colour choices than black out there. 

Fat Biker


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

ozzybmx said:


> Yes, Next SL cranks with the 100mm spindle for 170mm frames, there is about 2-3mm on each side, I removed the crank protector boot from drive side but will be able to put it back on as there is not much flex.


In hindsight would you have gone with a wider crank ? 
Or was this the clearance / Q-factor you were aiming for ?

Or are you gonna real world test it and decide then ?

For me I would need to go wider due to the weird angle my feet sit at when pedaling. I would hit all four stays for sure with that kind of clearance.

Fat Biker


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Nice looking bike!


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

This is the response i got from wendy about the dengfu FM190 about running a bluto and what the axle spacing actually is.. If the info is on here i missed it.. Dear jon

It is 190mm axle, we have the spacer on it

In fact i am not sure your fork if can fit for our fat frame

Costs shipping to USA is $100 by EMS

Best wishes

Wendy


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## wickedmtb (Mar 11, 2012)

Ozzy, your fatty has just become my new screen saver and inspiration. Damn, that is one sick looking bike. Sorry in advance, I'm replicating your build.lol


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

manchvegas said:


> This is the response i got from wendy about the dengfu FM190 about running a bluto and what the axle spacing actually is.. If the info is on here i missed it.. Dear jon
> 
> It is 190mm axle, we have the spacer on it
> 
> ...


i think she is saying she isnt sure 
anyways, i just placed my order for frame/fork and some other stuff. cant wait.


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

Very nice looking machine. Classy.
So where is a good source for lite thru axles? I also want to ditch my Chinese ones.



ozzybmx said:


> Build complete ! Went together without any issues, just need to buy a new Hope brake hose for the rear as it is not long enough to tie to all the mounting points under the BB, currently stretched over the top of the BB until the new hose arrives.
> 
> Yes, Next SL cranks with the 100mm spindle for 170mm frames, there is about 2-3mm on each side, I removed the crank protector boot from drive side but will be able to put it back on as there is not much flex.
> 
> ...


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

make them


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

Those are sweet! How did you do it?


mortenste said:


> make them


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

ozzybmx said:


> Build complete ! Went together without any issues, just need to buy a new Hope brake hose for the rear as it is not long enough to tie to all the mounting points under the BB, currently stretched over the top of the BB until the new hose arrives.
> 
> Yes, Next SL cranks with the 100mm spindle for 170mm frames, there is about 2-3mm on each side, I removed the crank protector boot from drive side but will be able to put it back on as there is not much flex.
> 
> ...


That looks awesome Ozzy and a fantastic weight as well. Nice job.


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

I agree. Very nice bike Ozzy. What size is the seatpost clamp...36.9mm?

With regard to the rear hub spacing. Ozzy's 197 fatsnow hubs worked fine in his fm190 frame. Jay_ridgeride's 19x chosen hubs needed a spacer in his fm190. Are the chosen hubs (sold by Dengfu) being made to fit the wrong spec (187mm?) that the IP010/fb02 (as Geir68 said "the tight ass one") frame was also built for? Did someone already figure this out? 

I'm more than ready to pull the trigger on an fm190 frame. Just want to get a suitable matching wheelset. I'm willing to go with another supplier for the wheels if needed.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

fm190 is 197spaced. dengfu rear hub is 190mm plus comes with 3.5mm spacer for each side. i finally clarified this with wendy and pulled trigger this morning. i also got their seat post clamp for the frame. not sure on the size. she said it is "matching"


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

Good info... thanks brankulo! I'll be sure to ask for a "matching" seatclamp too. 

dvn, is the hub width the same on your 190mm wide chosen hub (w/ thruaxle) as it is on the 190/197mm wide powerway hub (w/ thruaxle endcap in place)?


----------



## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

Balor said:


> I have carbon wheelset with powerway hubs. Given that most sellers have those, it might be possible that those will fit.
> Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for 190mm caps, my set came with 197mm caps, and no way in hell it fit into dropouts of my IP-10.


I think balor (with help of google) answered my question.


----------



## phatbiker (Mar 3, 2004)

mooseboy44 said:


> I've been following this thread since the beginning but have never posted. I couldn't help but notice that judging by the 1st of your two pictures, it looks as though you've got Surly fatbike tubes in your tires. You could lose over a pound by using downhill tubes, and over 2lbs by going tubeless, which would bring your bike to under 26 if not even 25 lbs! Overall, sweet looking bike! I like the lines on yours much better than the versions with the sweeping top tube. Thanks for my Friday night bike fix!


Thanks for the tips. Will give the DH tubes a try! I'm really more of a DHer anyway!


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

brankulo said:


> fm190 is 197spaced. dengfu rear hub is 190mm plus comes with 3.5mm spacer for each side. i finally clarified this with wendy and pulled trigger this morning. i also got their seat post clamp for the frame. not sure on the size. she said it is "matching"


Has anyone fit a bluto to a FM190 frame yet? Seems like the other frames.. such as FB02 and Ip018 etc.. are based off a 470mm A2C measurement which would slack out the Ip018 too much and the FB02 might be a little better (half a degree steeper) but the FM190 looks like it could get away with a longer A2C as it sits at 70.5 ha stock... what do you think? Wondering what the ha would end up at and if a bluto would clear the downtube... Wendy hasnt been.any help in that department..


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Cheers guys !

Not sure where to get the lighter thru axles yet, been busy this weekend so have not had time to look.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

tschewy said:


> I agree. Very nice bike Ozzy. What size is the seatpost clamp...36.9mm?


Yes, verniers across the frame was 36.9mm.

The seatclamp came with the frame, I didn't ask for it so they probably send one out with each frame. I used a 10g Carbocage clamp


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

ozzybmx said:


> Yes, verniers across the frame was 36.9mm.


I have built three china carbon frames that all had a 31.6mm seatpost with a 34.9mm seatpost-clamp.
Was the 36.9 a typo? Did you mean 34.9mm?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Geir68 said:


> I have built three china carbon frames that all had a 31.6mm seatpost with a 34.9mm seatpost-clamp.
> Was the 36.9 a typo? Did you mean 34.9mm?


No typo, I didn't measure it until tschewy asked as the Carbocage fitted first go.

The diameter of the seat tube is exactly 36.9mm.


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## techfersure (Dec 17, 2010)

xc71 said:


> That looks awesome Ozzy and a fantastic weight as well. Nice job.


What size frame? I am curious about sizing and would appreciate some input on fit.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

17.5" frame, I am 5'9".


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## techfersure (Dec 17, 2010)

Thx! I like the shorter TT on 17.5 but am 5' 11" would have to run a much longer seatpost.nice build, she is a looker!


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## vin-sanity (Oct 30, 2014)

manchvegas said:


> This is the response i got from wendy about the dengfu FM190 about running a bluto and what the axle spacing actually is.. If the info is on here i missed it.. Dear jon
> 
> It is 190mm axle, we have the spacer on it
> 
> ...


Hi, can you provide the web site that you bought your Dengfu fm190 from. Thanks


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## davedivided (Mar 31, 2011)

*First Tracks with Speeder FB02*


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

So no one has tried a bluto on an FM-190?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

just by looking at it i dont think it would fit


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## coiler_guy (Dec 20, 2005)

Is the disc spacing on the fork that comes with the FM-190 front or rear disc spacing? About to pull the trigger here for a build for my wife...and maybe another fatty for me


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Pretty dissapointing.. looks as though none of these frames fit the bill for what I want to do other than say the Q2 cycling one.. I got all the way through the order process through Q2 an it didnt say anything about not shipping to the US..


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

manchvegas said:


> PI got all the way through the order process through Q2 an it didnt say anything about not shipping to the US..


its because they sell you totally different frame now, not the framed/khs one. look at the pictures on their site


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

brankulo said:


> its because they sell you totally different frame now, not the framed/khs one. look at the pictures on their site


Whats different about it then the framed?


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

Finally, here's mine: IP-010, 170mm spaced revised frame, build-up went well, no problems at all. 11.7kg incl. pedals and Schwalbe 13F tubes. 
Wheels: HuDu/ D5 on ML rims, Hope Fatsno rear, Jones hub front
PG1070 cassette with e13 42t ring, RF Ride crankset with RF 30t, SLX rear shifter and derraileur, Hope X2 Race brakes, WTB Silverado, no-name carbon seatpost and easton Havoc bar and 55mm stem.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

simen said:


> Finally, here's mine: IP-010, 170mm spaced revised frame, build-up went well, no problems at all. 11.7kg incl. pedals and Schwalbe 13F tubes.
> Wheels: HuDu/ D5 on ML rims, Hope Fatsno rear, Jones hub front
> PG1070 cassette with e13 42t ring, RF Ride crankset with RF 30t, SLX rear shifter and derraileur, Hope X2 Race brakes, WTB Silverado, no-name carbon seatpost and easton Havoc bar and 55mm stem.


Very nice. You'll love the HuDu's. They roll like a fast 29er tire.


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## winkster (Mar 28, 2012)

simen said:


> Finally, here's mine: IP-010, 170mm spaced revised frame, build-up went well, no problems at all. 11.7kg incl. pedals and Schwalbe 13F tubes.
> Wheels: HuDu/ D5 on ML rims, Hope Fatsno rear, Jones hub front
> PG1070 cassette with e13 42t ring, RF Ride crankset with RF 30t, SLX rear shifter and derraileur, Hope X2 Race brakes, WTB Silverado, no-name carbon seatpost and easton Havoc bar and 55mm stem.


So the rear is 170 thru axle or QR?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

manchvegas said:


> Whats different about it then the framed?


the whole frame is different


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

It's actuallly 177 thru axle. I had Hope Fatsno qr hub from my previous project so I had to buy 12mm hub conversion caps from Hope.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> 17.5" frame, I am 5'9".


ozzy, how does the head angle feel? thinking of getting 5mm race to slacken it a bit, but its only going to get it down to 70deg or so. not sure if even worth it. also, why running buds front/rear?


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## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

*needing your advice or suggetions*

Hello first time posting long time reader. I have read and reread a lot of good and great information on building a Chinese's carbon fatty through knowledge and experiences thru out your postings. As I read through every post and was coming to the end I was more excited now than before especially seeing all these bike being completed and looking awesome. But I must admit now that I'm going on line to see what to buy and from the sites mentioned all that information has created chaos for me. So please excuse my question regarding this bike frame and rims if it's been covered. I would be buying all the components for it as I don't have extra parts.
Seem to me that clearances shouldn't be an issue .this being my first fat bike and only ridden one once, I have no knowledge of them. With that I'm not equip to fabricate things to make it fit. I'm sure that like my mountain bike they're a lot of choices to make but I would like to keep it simple and not have to upgrade soon. Would like very much to have bluto 120 upfront not sure if this one would allow it.

Bike frame 
2015 IP-N019 carbon fat bike frameset IP-N019 frame and FK-019 fat bike fork
2015 IP-N019 carbon fat bike frameset IP-N019 frame and FK-019 fat bike fork-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

Rims/ and the services to put it together 80 or 100

FR100C 100mm width 26er carbon fat bike rims, carbon snow bike rims-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

And whatever they sell that I need. Ill reach out to Peter after I ask the question here if this is something to considerate or not.

Hats off to jay,balor.geir.vin,dfiler,orind,tacomike,davedive,dillenger,simen.phatbiker,mortenste. (didn't mean to miss anyone)Nice built

thank you in advance


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## ENSANE (Nov 14, 2014)

Great I thought I knew what I wanted the FM-190 - now this new frame shows up the 2015 IP-N019. Does it fit big snow tires? I like the rear through axel set up better then the FM-190


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

fm190 is tried and seems to be without any major issues. fits large tires and looks good as well. this new N019 still doesnt address main issue to many, and that is clearance for bluto. unless you want to be guinea pig i would stick with fm190


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## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

thanks brankulo,have you seen the new specs on it to see if they change. it seems like now the tires can go up to 5".
Frame axle 197*12 thru axle or 190x10 quick release 
BB 100mm BSA from 120mm BSA
this is xmiplay

is this the one that your referring to? 
2015 Dengfu snow mtb frames chinese 26" MTB carbon bicycle frames BSA fat bike carbon frames chinese fm190

your right I'm trying not to be a guinea pig,so not to be trusted . but I was looking at the right specs correct

2015 Dengfu snow mtb frames chinese 26" MTB carbon bicycle frames BSA fat bike carbon frames chinese fm190, View chinese carbon bike frame, dengfu Product Details from Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited on Alibaba.com

like I said when I go to their site there's so many option I second guess myself


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i was looking at the specs for new xmiplay frame. nice thing is it comes with 15x150mm fork. not big fan of design. the specs look right, but unless someone tests it, we dont know. 
the linked frame is dengfu190, you can also go to dengfu site directly.


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## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

going direct like you said ,much easier the other way it brought up 4 suppliers to buy from

the set up for 15x150mm fork would that allow for use of the bluto 100 or 120 or is that not a spec that pertains to front shock and would you know what I should be looking for


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

yeah, bluto is 15x150 as well. but again, dont think it will fit the frame


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

The geometry diagram of the np-n019 seems to hint at suspension compatability. At least I think that that looks like a suspension fork crown they have depicted there.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

MaximumX said:


> The geometry diagram of the np-n019 seems to hint at suspension compatability. At least I think that that looks like a suspension fork crown they have depicted there.


dont go by that, they show it in all fat geometry charts.


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## Aceldama (Jan 18, 2005)

MaximumX said:


> The geometry diagram of the np-n019 seems to hint at suspension compatability. At least I think that that looks like a suspension fork crown they have depicted there.


Looking at geo charts and pictures this np-n019 looks a lot like the Borealis Yampa to me. Obviously I can't tell if it's the exact frame. But if it is I don't think the Bluto will clear.


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

ozzy, one other question. what's the story with the rear brake cable routing on the fm190? From your message/photo it appears you ran your line externally on the bottom of the downtube.

Is there an internal routing option also? Where does the hole on the non-drive side of the downtube pop out? Hard to tell from the photos... top of the chainstay?

Ordered a frame yesterday. Can't wait. Thanks again...


----------



## Drx (Nov 18, 2014)

...


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## Drx (Nov 18, 2014)

What is the size of your frame and whats your height simen? Im 5'5". Would you recommend size 17 for this frame? I'm concern of the top tube length 605mm(size 17) it seems too long.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

I did some more research on the Q2 cycling frame.. claim is 4.8" tires and CONFIRMED it will clear a bluto. Here is an email i got back today.. Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for the email.*

Yes. The fat bike frame can be used with the rockshox bluto fork. We have made the test about turning past 90 degrees, and there won't be such a problem. Please don't worry.*

Thanks.*

Penny


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## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

needing your advice or suggetions

dengfu190

fm190

carbon frame and fork :$580

headset:$14

carbon seat post:$30

handlebar cost:$30

saddle cost:$50

carbon stem :$45

carbon wheels cost:$600/pair

tires cost:$65

and groupset we have Sram xx1 :$1500/set and Sram x5 cost:$500/set, which do you need?

any suggestion or comments or questions I should be asking would be appreciated as I'm getting anxious on putting one of these carbons on the trails


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## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

manchvegas 

did you ask if they will deliver to US and did they send you a geo spec sheet to see the differences between the framed/khs one ,as stated earlier


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

brankulo said:


> the whole frame is different


Looking at the #s between the framed and the new Q2 frame they are almost identical.. very minor tweaks.. probably to get around not being able to sell direct after contracting with framed and khs. I have a bunch more questions asked ill post up when I hear back...


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## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

Great , please do and if there's any link I can see that you have would be appreciate .


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Here is a link.. little more pricey then other frames but seems like they do a little of their own actual R+D.. http://www.shop-q2cycling.com/Fat-Bike-Frameset/pro-p8521.html


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

manchvegas said:


> Looking at the #s between the framed and the new Q2 frame they are almost identical.. very minor tweaks.. probably to get around not being able to sell direct after contracting with framed and khs. I have a bunch more questions asked ill post up when I hear back...


this is the only fat frame i can find on Q2 website. correct me if i am wrong. the frame is very different than framed one.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Bertdog said:


> needing your advice or suggetions
> 
> dengfu190
> 
> ...


xx1 kit too pricey, it goes for around $1,100 i believe, here in us


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

https://images.the-house.com/FramedFB_alaskan_carbon_geo.jpg


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Looking at the 2 geos looks.like the differences are 3mm on BB and .5 degrees on Head tube angle.. chainstays same seat tube same.. ETT very close. If you actually calculate the alaskan mm to inches the diagram.is wrong on the medium. With a slightly longer fork on the new Q2.. you could acheive a slightly higher bb and maybe a degree slacker.. pretty close to me what framed did with Q2s frame


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

comparing geo numbers they are close, what i am trying to say is design wise they are different. look how much space there is from cl of headtube to bottom tube on framed one (this allows to fit bluto) and look how little there is on q2 frame. lets see what happens if you ask him to send you picture of frame with bluto turned 90 deg as he claims.


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## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

got to be careful with feedback maybe pictures are the way to go . here's a reply reguarding the bluto fiting on the fm190, so I should ask for a picture of the bluto on the fm190 

Dengfu Sports Equipment Co

Hey, Bert,



so you mean you need full suspension fork, right?



and our frame can fit it, and our rims are clincher and it is 80mm width, and our XX1 groupset is Sram brand, and the brakes included in the groupset,

and it usually cost 15 days paint and decal, and if you oder now, we can get the frame painted after we get your payment



regards

vic


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

brankulo said:


> ozzy, how does the head angle feel? thinking of getting 5mm race to slacken it a bit, but its only going to get it down to 70deg or so. not sure if even worth it. also, why running buds front/rear?


The whole bike feels great, not even a creak... which I expected. Head angle is spot on, done a bit of fast singletrack the other day and all is 100% so far.

Buds ??? Because they are the fattest cat out there, this is the second set of buds I've owned, awesome for traction and techy rock sections... and roll slightly faster than their sister LOU !

BTW I have many other sets of tyres, all with a certain job or use, Buds are the best fun though.

Looking forward to the Schwalbe Jumbo Jims in January.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

tschewy said:


> ozzy, one other question. what's the story with the rear brake cable routing on the fm190? From your message/photo it appears you ran your line externally on the bottom of the downtube.
> 
> Is there an internal routing option also? Where does the hole on the non-drive side of the downtube pop out? Hard to tell from the photos... top of the chainstay?
> 
> Ordered a frame yesterday. Can't wait. Thanks again...


There is a set of cable guides right down the underside of the downtube, under the BB and under the stay, this means the hose of the postmount brake will dive under the stay and get clipped the whole way up to the headtube.

The set of holes look like it will accommodate a cable brake, it probably wouldn't be too hard to remove the alu inner and internally route the brake hose.

There is another set of internals on the top tube, this is for the front derailleur (whatever that is), it come out before the seat tube and then there is a guide on the back of the seat tube.

Im going to block them all off to stop water ingress.


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## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

Another FM190 build...


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Looks great andy !

Expect a few questions about that Bluto


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

lol will do ...will post more pics tonight, done 50 mile over the weekend, all good ...bluto (120mm travel) fits fine....it is close to the down tube 5/10mm between crown and down tube but wont ever touch...quite neat really 

The new maxxis tyres are great on tarmac/sand and dry ...but lethal on mud!!


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## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

andy586 said:


> lol will do ...will post more pics tonight, done 50 mile over the weekend, all good ...bluto (120mm travel) fits fine....it is close to the down tube 5/10mm between crown and down tube but wont ever touch...quite neat really
> 
> The new maxxis tyres are great on tarmac/sand and dry ...but lethal on mud!! :
> 
> ...


----------



## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

manchvegas said:


> Here is a link.. little more pricey then other frames but seems like they do a little of their own actual R+D.. http://www.shop
> email last night a..., the rim tape ($2), the thru axles ($20)....


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

andy586 said:


> Another FM190 build...


Well that is really exciting to see!!! 120mm bluto and all! How does it ride? The bluto slack it out? If it's not too much trouble can you measure how much steertube you need to run the bluto? That headtube looks long!


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

andy586 said:


> Another FM190 build...


good to see that bluto fits, another plus for fm190
what size frame is this and how tall are you? i am trying to make my mind here 17.5 vs 19.


----------



## coiler_guy (Dec 20, 2005)

Anyone with the FM-190 know if you can run a 2x chainring set up?


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

coiler_guy said:


> Anyone with the FM-190 know if you can run a 2x chainring set up?


From the looks of Andy's pics above it looks like he's running a 170mm spaced crank as 1x or (100mm spindle) so looks as though you could run a 2x as long as you went with a 190 spaced crankset ie. 120mm spindle with spacers.. This dengfu frame is lookin like it's the one to beat..


----------



## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

I ordered a 17.5" fm190, and am 5' 10.5" ish. I went for the 17.5" as the effective top tube (ETT) is 600mm. That is most similar to my normal MTB that has an ETT of 595mm, but the seat on that is all the way back and I run a longish stem (110mm).

That all said I have also been wondering about my switching to the 19.5" frame size. I think it will be easier to make a 19.5 feel smaller (moving seat, shorter stem) than make a 17.5" feel larger.

Who knows...


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

some more pics....









Changed the tyres to Hodag's...honestly think a better all round tyre ..fast rolling, with good grip...though look tiny in this frame  (thinking you could run 29+ wheels there's that much clearance! )

the frame is the 19" version im 6ft ....as for steerer length, yes it is tall cutting the bluto's steerer less than 205mm and you'll have problems ...

Build went together very smoothly ...just some hardened resin or something like that needed cleaning from the BB threads..

crank is 170mm.. I think with the direct link crank i could stay with that and run a 4.8 bud without rubbing on the chain line in the top coge

anyone running both front and rear 4.8 surly bud ?? i know the Lou is really for the rear but rather have less rolling resistance?


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

dvn said:


> Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


I am going to order a set of these. I can't find a rim profile drawing though. Do you have these set up tubeless? Half the point of switch from the weinmann is to get a good, dependable, easy tubeless set up.
Thanks!


----------



## litespeedaddict (Feb 18, 2006)

anyone running both front and rear 4.8 surly bud ?? i know the Lou is really for the rear but rather have less rolling resistance? [/QUOTE]

I have been running 2 Bud's for a while now and have no plans to change anytime soon. The (almost) continuous center tread block works great on the pavement, and more than adequate in the dirt. Yes the Lou is going to give you more traction, but I don't think I need max traction 100% of the time and the Lou suits 99.9% of the riding I do perfectly.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

does the frame run big? i am 6'2" but the bike i ride has tad shorter ett than 19.5 size of this frame. i guess 17.5 might be too small though


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

brankulo said:


> does the frame run big? i am 6'2" but the bike i ride has tad shorter ett than 19.5 size of this frame. i guess 17.5 might be too small though


Yeah go for the 19 ... mates also bought same frame , and he's 6'2"


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

litespeedaddict said:


> anyone running both front and rear 4.8 surly bud ?? i know the Lou is really for the rear but rather have less rolling resistance?


I have been running 2 Bud's for a while now and have no plans to change anytime soon. The (almost) continuous center tread block works great on the pavement, and more than adequate in the dirt. Yes the Lou is going to give you more traction, but I don't think I need max traction 100% of the time and the Lou suits 99.9% of the riding I do perfectly.[/QUOTE]

Thanks  was thinking of waiting for the jumbo jims but will probably go for 2 buds ..jims look possibly slower...wide block spacing?


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

andy586 said:


> Yeah go for the 19 ... mates also bought same frame , and he's 6'2"


cool thanks, ride impressions?


----------



## pssaenz (Jan 21, 2007)

*Which Chinese frame has closer geometry to the Beargrease?*

Last year I built a 907 Al frame with CS, tubeless & studded Bud & Lou and I'm quite happy with my snowmobile for the winter. Now I'd like to build a fat bike for all year riding & racing, so I was thinking about one of these carbon frames, 65mm carbon rims and 3.8/4.0 fast rolling tires.

I like what I hear about the geometry & riding qualities of the Beargease so I'd like to pick a frame with a similar geometry, if that exists. Any suggestions/ ideas?

Thanks!


----------



## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

PeterQ520 said:


> Good news, we (Iplay) can assemble carbon fat bike wheels with Bitex hubs, Sapim RACE spokes, Sapim Leader spokes, Sapim CX-Delta spokes,
> , Sapim nipples at present, the hubs will be available in 15 days, you know the hubs are made in Taiwan, it should take some time to arrive here.
> 
> You may view the hubs details first:
> ...


Anyone try their 80/100mm rims yet or full wheelsets?


----------



## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

brankulo said:


> cool thanks, ride impressions?


Early days yet only done 50 miles but but good so far, ive come from a Farley 6 and id say its as good as that but a little fast/lighter ...im guessing it comes down largely what tyres and pressure your running but with 4" tyres its quick, like a hard tail MTB... massive clearance though so running whatever you want wouldn't be an issue (which was a major downside to the Farley.. 4" was max)

will post a list of parts later with cost etc ....


----------



## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

Anyone try Big Fat Larry or Ground Control on IP-010 (190mm) yet?


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

A new-to-me customer just dropped off a SN01 frame for me to assemble.

Can anyone steer me toward a headset for it? She'll be running Bluto.

Also, I'm uneducated on crank options. She brought me a set of Next fat cranks with (what I think is) the 170mm spindle. Will these work on this frame? Remove spacers to achieve fit, or...?

Any help appreciated.


----------



## krap22 (Apr 28, 2011)

Looking to put together a fat bike with the FM190 frame. Here is my build list. Any suggestions/changes for me to make? i'm 6'5 260 lbs. My concern is how well this build will handle a Clyde.

FM190 Frame/Fork
Carbon wheels from DengFU 
Cane Creek Head Set
BB7 Brakes/Levers
x9 trigger shifter
x9 derailleur
Raceface Crankset
PG1070 11-36 cassette


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

mikesee said:


> A new-to-me customer just dropped off a SN01 frame for me to assemble.
> 
> Can anyone steer me toward a headset for it? She'll be running Bluto.
> 
> ...


Mike, here's a thread I started to get info on the cranks... couple of good blokes filled in the answer's pretty quick. See the PDF Bob posted for invaluable info, that tells you exactly what spacers to put on.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/next-sl-crank-arm-spacing-924748.html

http://www.raceface.com/comp/pdf/FATBIKE-CRANK-CLEARANCES.pdf


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

ozzybmx said:


> Mike, here's a thread I started to get info on the cranks... couple of good blokes filled in the answer's pretty quick. See the PDF Bob posted for invaluable info, that tells you exactly what spacers to put on.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/next-sl-crank-arm-spacing-924748.html
> 
> http://www.raceface.com/comp/pdf/FATBIKE-CRANK-CLEARANCES.pdf


Cheers mate.

Any idea on headset? I see lots of 'integrated' options but none for tapered.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

mikesee said:


> Cheers mate.
> 
> Any idea on headset? I see lots of 'integrated' options but none for tapered.


Absolutely no Idea, I got the headset with mine for a bank breaking $14 extra (quality ceramic), figured it was easier than ordering one after the frame arrived, same with the expensive $20 thru axles


----------



## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

that dengfu headset came with the top compression plug, right?


----------



## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Any idea on headset? I see lots of 'integrated' options but none for tapered.


 You need a headset with these dimensions : IS42/28.6 - IS52/40. Several manufactures make sets that fit, CaneCreek 40 series is one option.


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Geir68 said:


> You need a headset with these dimensions : IS42/28.6 - IS52/40. Several manufactures make sets that fit, CaneCreek 40 series is one option.


Thanks to you, and Ozzy, for helping me get this sorted.

Will post some peeks once I have this thing rolling.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

tschewy said:


> that dengfu headset came with the top compression plug, right?


Yes it did, its a hefty lump though... I had a better one here for carbon forks so I fitted that.

I would recommend getting the few small extras with these frames (headset, thru axles & seat clamp), It will get you rolling then you can upgrade at leisure.


----------



## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

Ok , let me start by saying thank you to all who have posted and answered my question thru private messaging on helping me put this together and have some understanding of it. 
here's my latest these are the payment options,
payment thru paypal(4.2% paypal fees), 
western union, 
bank transfer(customer need to pay excess fees for customer's bank), which one do you suggest is best to work with I can do any of them.
thanks in advance again


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Bertdog, PayPal and suck up the $4.20 per $100 spent, its only ~$25 for a $600 transaction.

Moi and PayPal have lost no love, but at least when they fail, your CC company can take the cash back off PayPal.

Also make sure you ONLY have your credit card linked to your PayPal account, not a bank account.


----------



## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> Also make sure you ONLY have your credit card linked to your PayPal account, not a bank account.


Why is that?


----------



## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

ozzybmx said:


> Bertdog, PayPal and suck up the $4.20 per $100 spent, its only ~$25 for a $600 transaction.
> 
> Moi and PayPal have lost no love, but at least when they fail, your CC company can take the cash back off PayPal.
> 
> Also make sure you ONLY have your credit card linked to your PayPal account, not a bank account.


Thanks today the order goes in


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

aizu1 said:


> Why is that?


Because if PayPal plays the clown and finds a dispute in favour of a scam artist... eg Sends you a brick by registered post.

You credit card company will get "your" (their) money back from PayPal.

Your bank, with you authorising a bank transfer of your money to your PayPal account ? Kiss it goodbye.

Maybe your bank has time to chase it up ? but here... they don't even want to know about it.


----------



## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

ozzybmx having your frame painted how much longer did it take for shipping. I'm sure it was mention but where did you order your frame from?


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Bertdog said:


> ozzybmx having your frame painted how much longer did it take for shipping. I'm sure it was mention but where did you order your frame from?


Direct from Dengfu, mine took 1 month exactly, though it got shuffled around Australia for a few days too.


----------



## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

funny ozzybmx corresponding with nexties about their rims and they showed me your bike sweet and what a small world it is.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Yes, the bike with the green wheels and the picture of the yellow rims on the website are mine.


----------



## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

I had seen the yellow rims but that was the first time seeing the green ones , 2 nice bikes I like your toys. I just realized that they don't sell them complete, spokes and hubs . that's beyond my ability unfortunately going back to ordering rims from dengfu that blows.


----------



## litespeedaddict (Feb 18, 2006)

ozzybmx said:


> Build complete ! Went together without any issues, just need to buy a new Hope brake hose for the rear as it is not long enough to tie to all the mounting points under the BB, currently stretched over the top of the BB until the new hose arrives.
> 
> Yes, Next SL cranks with the 100mm spindle for 170mm frames, there is about 2-3mm on each side, I removed the crank protector boot from drive side but will be able to put it back on as there is not much flex.
> 
> ...


Ozzy I hesitate to say that is the best looking fatbike ever, because my Echo just got to the shop, but wow. Makes me instantly want another bike decked out like that. That looks great.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

contact brian, he will build wheels for you


----------



## kylehampton (Mar 25, 2004)

Well. I thought I understood the rear spacing issues with the IP-010. And I thought I had gotten the assurances from bert and Peter that they had been addressed.

But I bought the standard 197mm through-axle Salsa rear hub and it does not fit in the dropout. So I have no idea what to do now.

So does anybody know who makes a 190mm spaced through-axle hub? Does such a thing actually exist?


----------



## kylehampton (Mar 25, 2004)

How about this one?

New Fatbike Hub for Shimano XX1 Freehub 190x12mm Axle thru 32 Holes Chosen Hub | eBay


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

jade makes em, chosen one mentioned above, sarma hubs too, its just a matter of different end caps. even hope can be converted to 190


----------



## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

As far as I understand, the chosen hubs have a 190mm width with a thru axle, so they will work with the IP-010. Others (orind?) have used sarma hubs which might have an interchangeable endcap. I think others have just wedged the 197mm hubs in the 190mm (geir?) to make it work.

Also, the chosen hubs ship with spacers to make them full width the full 197mm. I think Jay had to use these to make the chosen hums work on his fm190.

I have not seen either a IP-010 or chosen hubs in person, this is just what I have learned through this thread. But due to their unique specs (190mm thru axle), I decided not to buy either the IP-010 or the chosen hubs.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

kylehampton said:


> Well. I thought I understood the rear spacing issues with the IP-010. And I thought I had gotten the assurances from bert and Peter that they had been addressed.
> 
> But I bought the standard 197mm through-axle Salsa rear hub and it does not fit in the dropout. So I have no idea what to do now.
> 
> So does anybody know who makes a 190mm spaced through-axle hub? Does such a thing actually exist?


If you have the original run IP-010, just spread the dropouts and stuff the 197 in there. Works fine. Been running mine like that for several months.


----------



## No_Roads (Oct 27, 2012)

Deng Fu FM190 ordered today. Thanks to all the contributors to this thread for sharing info on there builds and especially @Ozzybmx for his awesome looking bike that inspired me to take the plunge.


----------



## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

Yep--I went with Sarma--various end caps that thread on so I was sure I could accommodate whatever frame spacing I actually received--which was 170 through bolt. The hubs are holding up well--I am pleased with them.


----------



## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

can some one tell me what's the weight on nextie Wild Dragon complete from them


?? answered

For the hubs 135/190mm QR Hope Fatsno

For weight, 65mm wheelset around: 1950g

90mm wheelset around: 2250g

incase someone was looking info


----------



## Freerider (Feb 18, 2004)

Here's my IP18 (sorry for the bad pics). Rides great. 26.9 lbs as pictured.
















Question for everyone who is using the integrated headset that you can order with these frames. Where do the 2 spacers/shims go (the ones in the picture, under the bearings)? I put the headset together without using them, and it seemed ok, but when I ride it won't stay tight. So I think they need to go somewhere. Thanks.


----------



## emp? (Sep 8, 2009)

those shims go under the headset top cap to give clearance to the frame, only needed on some frames


----------



## Freerider (Feb 18, 2004)

No issues for me with clearance while not using the shims, so most likely not needed with my frame I guess, and also not likely the cause of why it keeps loosening too then.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

I have not had great luck with the Neco expansion plug holding well. I'm using the KCNC plug on both my carbon bikes now with no issues. They are a bit longer and provide a larger surface area for the stem to clamp to.


----------



## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

Freerider said:


> Here's my IP18 (sorry for the bad pics). Rides great. 26.9 lbs as pictured.
> 
> View attachment 941279


Thoughts on a Bluto fitting that frame? taken any measurements?


----------



## Freerider (Feb 18, 2004)

hiss2 said:


> Thoughts on a Bluto fitting that frame? taken any measurements?


Sorry, no not sure. Not really interested in a Bluto as this is to be my snow bike.



dvn said:


> I have not had great luck with the Neco expansion plug holding well. I'm using the KCNC plug on both my carbon bikes now with no issues. They are a bit longer and provide a larger surface area for the stem to clamp to.


Yeah, I was leaning towards the expansion plug provided with the stock headset being the issue. I've tried tightening it all up again, and feels good now. We'll see how it holds up this time. If not, I may need to look into a different expansion plug as well. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

Freerider said:


> Sorry, no not sure. Not really interested in a Bluto as this is to be my snow bike.


Right on i hear ya.. What hub/rim combo did you go with? from where? Thanks!


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dvn said:


> I have not had great luck with the Neco expansion plug holding well. I'm using the KCNC plug on both my carbon bikes now with no issues. They are a bit longer and provide a larger surface area for the stem to clamp to.
> View attachment 941477


so is using regular star nut not a good idea?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

brankulo said:


> so is using regular star nut not a good idea?


Using a star nut in a carbon fork is a very bad idea.


----------



## Freerider (Feb 18, 2004)

hiss2 said:


> Right on i hear ya.. What hub/rim combo did you go with? from where? Thanks!


These are the wheels I got with red hubs and nips: Carbon fat/snow bike wheels 90mm width - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

So far I'm impressed with them. Decent build, although the spokes were a little loose out of the box. Engagement is average in the hubs (not bad, but not great either), and build quality seems on par with similar offerings. Tubeless setup was a breeze and has been solid.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

brankulo said:


> so is using regular star nut not a good idea?


Very, very bad idea on a carbon steer tube.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dvn said:


> Very, very bad idea on a carbon steer tube.


glad i keep lurking in this thread still


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Dont hammer a starnut into carbon as it will score and gouge the steerer, then when you tighten the top screw it will cut into the carbon, you then got a compromised steerer that could eventually snap.

Also most plugs for normal alu/steel steerer's are a bigger diameter than carbon fork plugs so they wont fit carbon as they are meant for the narrower steerer's... but if you can get one to fit, it will work beautifully.

I have a couple of Hope plugs here and IIRC they don't fit my Niner, Carver or Chi forks.


----------



## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Freerider said:


> These are the wheels I got with red hubs and nips: Carbon fat/snow bike wheels 90mm width - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> So far I'm impressed with them. Decent build, although the spokes were a little loose out of the box. Engagement is average in the hubs (not bad, but not great either), and build quality seems on par with similar offerings. Tubeless setup was a breeze and has been solid.


How much were these?


----------



## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

*2015 Fatbike Carbon Fiber Fork 15x150mm*

Has anyone of you already tried this fork? Seems to be the perfect Bluto counterpart for the Winter.

2015 Fatbike Carbon Fiber Fork 15*150mm Skewer D Brake Snow Bike Carbon Fork New Sale-in Bicycle Fork from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group


----------



## Freerider (Feb 18, 2004)

x3speed said:


> How much were these?


$625 USD + $72 USD for shipping.


----------



## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

That's not bad! Thanks!


----------



## kylehampton (Mar 25, 2004)

brankulo said:


> jade makes em, chosen one mentioned above, sarma hubs too, its just a matter of different end caps. even hope can be converted to 190


For those interested, Hope emailed me to let me know that their 197 rear hubs can be converted to 190mm thru axle by using the Pro2 EVO 12x135 caps.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

kylehampton said:


> For those interested, Hope emailed me to let me know that their 197 rear hubs can be converted to 190mm thru axle by using the Pro2 EVO 12x135 caps.


A few months ago I contacted Hope to let them know they should be advertising that capability. Even provided them with the photos and posts from this thread.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Ready for tomorrow's snowstorm.


----------



## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

mikesee said:


> A new-to-me customer just dropped off a SN01 frame for me to assemble.
> 
> Can anyone steer me toward a headset for it? She'll be running Bluto.
> 
> ...


Any progress on this guy? your opinions on the frame/quality? Thanks!


----------



## fstfrd15 (Dec 28, 2007)

I have built a few of the IP-010 frames now so thought I'd share some info. 
-All are the new 12x190mm rear and brakes line up fine, cassette lock ring is close but does clear.
-Bluto needs +3mm crown race that is available from Cane Creek and Surly. Otherwise compression knob will hit downtube
-Race Face turbine cranks for 190mm rear fit great and chainline with single ring is good. Turbine Cinch with direct mount ring has bad chainline (too far out) but I think the Cinch with spindle for 170mm rear would clear and chainline would be good. Waiting for spindle to arrive to check.
-Chosen hubs are same as Stans so end caps for rear can be changed, 135mm end caps = 190 and 142 = 197

Running Dillinger 4s tubeless on 80mm rims, good clearance but can't comment on larger tires. An awesome bike, more playful and responsive that I thought. 26.09lbs as pictured with pretty basic components and a dropper post.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

That's interesting about the chosen hubs. I've got a spare set but was hesitant to lace them to good rims because I'll probably swap frames in a couple years and the next one might be 197mm.

Is this the chosen hub you're talking about?


----------



## fstfrd15 (Dec 28, 2007)

Yes looks like the same one, one end cap should pull off then the other side is threaded onto the inner axle


----------



## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

I ordered a FB02 190mm rear spacing frame and wondering if the race face turbine crankset for 170mm rear spacing will fit?? I would be running this as a 1x10. I have a line on a used one for cheap, had to ask...


----------



## ENSANE (Nov 14, 2014)

Anyone built a 2015 IP-N019 carbon fat bike from xmiplay yet?


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Not seen this posted before so sorry if it has.

Not heard of an FM-171 before either ?
Although it does look similar to another recent frame seen on here. 
The weight if believable looks good. At least lighter than anything I have seen. 
Bluto ready combos already starting to appear if you're prepared to pay.

$760ish.

AliExpress Mobile - Global Online Shopping for Apparel, Phones, Computers, Electronics, Fashion and more

Fat Biker


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

fstfrd15 said:


> -Chosen hubs are same as Stans so end caps for rear can be changed, 135mm end caps = 190 and 142 = 197


These?


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

That fm171 is showing that fat bike frame geometry is finally evolving to where it should be. Note how the bottom bracket is behind the seat tube, shortening the chainstays. I couldn't figure out why everyone was building frames with such long chainstays. It makes lifting the front end difficult and that severely limits handling. I am happy to see that at least some manufactures have it figured out now. The others should come along in the next year or two. 

While I love the look of my carbon frame, it suffers from ridiculously long chain stays. They could easily be 2 inches shorter. I plan on replacing it in a couple years... Or as soon as I can convince myself it isn't crazy to buy fat carbon frames on a regular basis.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

fm-171 looks exactly like fb02 from speeder. i had this frame and sold it. it would not fit larger tires. it has been available since july from several places. it would be really nice frame if the yoke design was bit different to accommodate bigger tires


----------



## No_Roads (Oct 27, 2012)

Has anyone with a dengu fm190 tried clown shoes with bud and Lou and can speak to the clearance?


----------



## fstfrd15 (Dec 28, 2007)

Those end caps look different, ones I have don't have the taper on one side. I used a Stan's 135mm to convert from 197 to 190


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzy runs it with buds on 90mm rims with good clearance. 100mm would most likely work too


----------



## ENSANE (Nov 14, 2014)

brankulo said:


> fm-171 looks exactly like fb02 from speeder. i had this frame and sold it. it would not fit larger tires. it has been available since july from several places. it would be really nice frame if the yoke design was bit different to accommodate bigger tires


Looks like the yoke is 145mm which would accommodate a 5inch tire. Am I reading the geometry right?
Aliexpress.com : Buy 2015 Carbon Snow Bike Frameset 19 inch Carbon Sandy Fat Bicycle Frame Fork Rear Spacer 190mm Max Tire 26er X 4.8 inch from Reliable tire plug repair kit suppliers on Vivian's Sporting Room | Alibaba Group


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

the problem was with the shape of the yoke, it angles too steep instead of being smooth curve


----------



## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

Look up near the top of this page. DVN has a dillinger 5 on a 65mm rim (from ICAN) on his fb02/ip010. Wider rims and/or bud/lou were previously noted to be too tight. There were photos on page 60 +/-.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

tschewy said:


> Look up near the top of this page. DVN has a dillinger 5 on a 65mm rim (from ICAN) on his fb02/ip010. Wider rims and/or bud/lou were previously noted to be too tight. There were photos on page 60 +/-.


Yep. even the 65mm is tight at the chainstays but doable.


----------



## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

Thank you sir


----------



## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

I have finally finished my FM190 build. It took longer than expected after first receiving an incorrect frame. Everything went together well but I did have to clean out some of the internal cable holes and also the threads on the rear brake boss have to be cleaned up. I built the bike up with the Dengfu carbon wheels as I didn't want to chance any fit issues with the rear wheel. As you know the Dengfu wheels come with the spacers. When I didn't need to use the spacer on the non-drive side, when I did put that spacer in the spacing was too wide and the caliper would not line up properly. Without that spacer everything fit as it should. I tried not using the spacer on the drive side and the cassette lock ring hit against the dropout chip so I installed the spacer on the drive side and everything works well. I have only ridden the bike around my driveway but it feels light and quick compared to my old Pugsley. I'm looking forward to getting a real ride in


----------



## jhat (Sep 27, 2010)

​VTMBER, very nice bike, what crank did you use and how is the chain line? Do you think you could make something like a I9 or Hope rear hub work with the issues you worked through?


----------



## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

jhat said:


> ​VTMBER, very nice bike, what crank did you use and how is the chain line? Do you think you could make something like a I9 or Hope rear hub work with the issues you worked through?


I used the Race Face Turbine crankset that is spaced for 190 frames with 100mm bb shells, I have no chain line issues. 
I don't know about the Hope or I9 hubs. Maybe others on the forum have used them and could chime in. Reading about the spacing issues on some frames I was concerned so I ordered frame and wheels from the same company.


----------



## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

it helps me understand it a bit more thought to share it.

Salsa Cycles

https://surlybikes.com//uploads/downloads/SUR_Tire_Geometries.pdf

https://45nrth.com/files/chronicles/Tire-Geometry_hires.jpg


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

Got my 90mm wheels in the mail from ICAN. Weights were right on at 1073g and 1234g (1069g and 1228g advertised). 24 points of engagement on the powerway hubs.

I've never had a set of new wheels. Should I ride them for a few miles then have the spoke tension checked at the LBS... or get the spoke tension checked first before I put the rim tape on them?

I will set these up tubeless with dillinger 5s. I'll report back on that process when it happens.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

These are said to be clincher 65mm wide, 20mm deep rims. Is there any reason they couldnt be set up tubeless?

Carbon fat bike wheels 65mm width - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

fstfrd15 said:


> -Bluto needs +3mm crown race that is available from Cane Creek and Surly. Otherwise compression knob will hit downtube


Can't find any info on this +3 race from Surly or Cane Creek. Where'd you find the info, or the race?


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

*fatbike crankset*

Hi experienced builders

Are these three items a compatible and decent option for this  chinese carbon frame?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

No_Roads said:


> Has anyone with a dengu fm190 tried clown shoes with bud and Lou and can speak to the clearance?


I have well over 10mm clearance on each side with 90mm rims and Buds, 100's will fit no worries !


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

kmjelle said:


> Hi experienced builders
> 
> Are these three items a compatible and decent option for this  chinese carbon frame?
> 
> View attachment 943654


Yes, those items should fit fine. Just be aware that you will not fit tires larger than 4" on this frame unless you go with narrow rims. You can squeeze Dillinger 5's in on 65mm rims.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

that ring is going to make you spin out really easy


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Thanks for the reply. I already use 26x11-36 on my 29er mtb. My local trails are technical with lots of steep climbs. Pretty happy with the setup. 

I was planning to purchase 65mm rims from Ican. So hopefully I can use my Dillinger 5 4,8" stud winter tires with this frame. In summer I am planning to go for the new lightweight jumbo jims 4" tubeless. 

Again, thanks for the input.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

You will also need:

BSA30 Bottom Bracket Tool. That BB will not work with regular external bearing cup tools. It is larger outer diameter. Enduro Bearings, ZIPP and Rotor all use this BSA30 external cup BB, so their tools work. But their tools are far more $$$ than the RF tool. This is a $25-$30 RF tool.

To mount the ring to the arm, you will also need an old ISIS bb tool. If you don't already have one of these, factor in about another $10. So a total of $35-$40 in tools as well.

Considering the cost of the BB, extra cost of a spiderless ring, and tools, I went with a 30T NW Ride crankset and a 42T rear cog. Much cheaper overall, no proprietary tools, and narrower q-factor. The Turbine CINCH arms are also +10mm vs. the Ride, Turbine (non-cinch), Next SL, etc. And I only give up about 150g in weight vs. the Turbine Cinch setup.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Ahh, I thought I had it figured out now. Will the lower q-factor with raceface NW ride limit tire size, or is the frame the limiter? 

I would like a crankset similar in weight and quality to Shimano XT. Any suggestions which crank, bottom bracket and cog to choose from, would be very welcomed. I am ordering the parts to Norway.

What is the most common 1x crankset among carbon fatbike builders? Regarding tools, I already have the ISIS bb tool.


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## smthgfshy (Nov 11, 2010)

I'd gander to say the Next SL. the cinch/direct mount system is a game changer and will make spider'd cranks obsolete, much like oversized headtubes. JMO...


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

kmjelle said:


> Ahh, I thought I had it figured out now. Will the lower q-factor with raceface NW ride limit tire size, or is the frame the limiter?
> 
> I would like a crankset similar in weight and quality to Shimano XT. Any suggestions which crank, bottom bracket and cog to choose from, would be very welcomed. I am ordering the parts to Norway.
> 
> What is the most common 1x crankset among carbon fatbike builders? Regarding tools, I already have the ISIS bb tool.


frame is the limiter, usually , absolutely agree on Next cinch cranks.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

kmjelle said:


> View attachment 943654


Is the crank+chainring in the pic above basicly the same as this (except the tooth difference)

I found the RF Next sl to be a bit pricy. Maybe not worth the extra money, or? I am aiming for a final bike weight of 10.5-11kg or 23lb.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Anyone put a rear rack onto the icanbikes SN01 yet?

Just curious what options are/where to start looking.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

kmjelle said:


> Ahh, I thought I had it figured out now. Will the lower q-factor with raceface NW ride limit tire size, or is the frame the limiter?
> 
> I would like a crankset similar in weight and quality to Shimano XT. Any suggestions which crank, bottom bracket and cog to choose from, would be very welcomed. I am ordering the parts to Norway.
> 
> What is the most common 1x crankset among carbon fatbike builders? Regarding tools, I already have the ISIS bb tool.


I think you're mixing q-factor with chainline. They are generally mutually exclusive.

The Raceface NW doesn't change the chainline at all (vs. standard chainring), unless you are using the 30T with the built-in 2mm offset to clear the spider.

However, using a 170OLD crank with a 190OLD frame may limit your tire size you can use on your 190OLD frame. Even if tire can fit in between the stays, your chain may rub the tire if using a narrower spindle.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

I see. I am new to building fatbikes. Lots to learn, still. Sold my old and heavy fatbike to build something lighter and more playful for singletrack riding.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Why not just go X9 100mm with a spiderless ring? That's what I'm running on mine and have no chainline issues with Dillinger 5's on 65mm rims.


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

I was searching the thread to see if the ICAN SN03 had been talked about, but didn't see anything (only the SN01). I'm looking for something with rear rack mounts, but the 100mm BB sounds like a better solution to get the Q factor down. It also looks like 100mm cranks are easier to find. Any idea on what the biggest tire that can fit this frame is? Any chance a Dillinger 5 would work?


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

akgrimace said:


> I was searching the thread to see if the ICAN SN03 had been talked about, but didn't see anything (only the SN01). I'm looking for something with rear rack mounts, but the 100mm BB sounds like a better solution to get the Q factor down. It also looks like 100mm cranks are easier to find. Any idea on what the biggest tire that can fit this frame is? Any chance a Dillinger 5 would work?


SN03 is the same as the IP-010. Dillinger 5 will fit on 65mm rims.


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

ICAN 90mm rims set up tubeless pretty easily with Dillinger 5's. I was able to get beads set without a compressor. I used 72mm wide tape (3m 8898). 

Getting them off was a different story... not easy. Fingers crossed I don't flat with these things cause if I'm wearing gloves they're not coming off.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

dvn said:


> Why not just go X9 100mm with a spiderless ring? That's what I'm running on mine and have no chainline issues with Dillinger 5's on 65mm rims.


This one?


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## xmessenger (Aug 13, 2010)

Gigantic said:


> Free markets are one thing, but supporting counterfeiters is another. What these cheap bikes feed is our sense of entitlement and ignore our responsibilities to our communities. I can't afford to buy a 9:Zero:7 or Borealis fatbike; I believe in supporting my "local" economy and the innovators that invest in it. When someone comes along with no connection to my community, offering a product similar to that, based on the intellectual property, but at half the price, but none of my money remains in my community as a result of that product, I will pass. I will instead buy what I can afford, or make sacrifices on my own to get what I want, but I will not sacrifice my community to satisfy my desire or greed. This goes for bikes, or general merchandise. I buy local when I can, but not necessarily exclusively. I support innovators and those who invest in my community and "community" does not have to mean local. A merchant selling someone else's intellectual property only hurts us all and will reduce the amount of innovation available to us all.


I ultimately see this as not a consumer question but one of international trade laws and US domestic laws. Consumers should be educated sure, to a point, but we aren' trained in the complex nature of what is legal or not. The US government should step up and place simple expectations on ALL these foreign discounts or face severe tariffs.
Honestly, I don't know how legal they are or whether illegal at all due to the nature of China's own laws regarding patents, I just don't know and believe its ridiculous to expect an average joe to decipher a fairly complex legal issue. This is the responsibility of the US government to take action to support its own manufacturers, THEY need to step up. As mentioned, the US has always been about the simple effects of the free market system and consumers are simply taking advantage of that. If the game has changed then the US needs to step up and do something.If it is illegal? I'd argue you are wrong as I haven't read of anyone being punished or charged. Just my opinion.
I see this as an international trade issue as opposed to a consumer issue. Honestly, only when the US government chooses to be pro active will there ever be a significant change in the growing nature of this market.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

kmjelle said:


> This one?


Not sure if that's a GXP 100 or not. I'm using this setup:
SRAM x9 Fat Bike GXP100 175 36 22 10 Speed Gray Bottom Bracket Included Cranks | eBay
Lynx Racing Components Anti Drop Chainring GXP 30T Black Narrow Wide 1x XX1 NW | eBay
I've been using the Lynx chainrings for a full season now on two of my bikes. They've been great and are cheaper than most.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

I want a 1 x 10 setup. Think I will just stick to the cinch type crank: RF Turbine and NW drivetrain. Just placed a 1480usd order for frame, wheelset and various carbon parts, with Ican. Chen at Ican seems very service minded and always replies my mails within minutes.


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## poonstar (Dec 1, 2014)

thank you to everyone who has contributed valuable insight to building a chinese carbon fat bike. 

i will post pics of my build shortly once all the parts arrive but here is the list;

197x12 chinese carbon frame (120 mm BB) with 135x15 carbon fork
shimano XTR rear mech with one up RAD cage
shimano XT shifter
shimano cassette with one up conversion 
enve 780mm flat bar
enve 90mm stem
enve 410mm 31.6 post
esi foam grips
raceface next SL cranks 170mm length w/ 28t ring
raceface bb cups
hope tech 3 E4 brakes and calipers
hope fatsno front and rear hubs
ashimia disc rotors
FSA carbon drop in headset
Dillinger 4 120 TPI studded tires
Nextie 90mm wild dragon rims with DT spokes
Specialized Ronin Carbon saddle
Crankbros acid carbon pedals
Hope seat collar clamp


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

looks like a very nice build


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

kmjelle said:


> I want a 1 x 10 setup. Think I will just stick to the cinch type crank: RF Turbine and NW drivetrain. Just placed a 1480usd order for frame, wheelset and various carbon parts, with Ican. Chen at Ican seems very service minded and always replies my mails within minutes.


Umm, the parts I linked = 1x10 setup. You can easily sell the spider and double chainrings on ebay. That's what I did with all of mine. I don't own a bike with a front derailleur.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

dvn said:


> Umm, the parts I linked = 1x10 setup. You can easily sell the spider and double chainrings on ebay. That's what I did with all of mine. I don't own a bike with a front derailleur.


Now I get it.

Ragarding the RF Next SL: are there different versions of this, one for 100mm bottom brackets, one for "regular" MTBs. So that I have to make sure I get the right one when I order? Is the one below a fatbike version (if there is such thing..)


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Cant tell from from the shopping basket list. You need to buy the crank with the spindle for 100mm bb.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

I would think so too, but can't find any different spindle lenghts to choose from. Just says BSA 100 bb is an option. Race Face Next SL Cinch 1X Crankset > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA - Mobile


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## flbrittain (Dec 5, 2014)

JUst getting into the game and wondering if a Chinese frame will accept the wheels from my 2014 Pugsley. The Pug evidently has an offset wheel and it is suggested that makes it incompatible with other Fatties. Other than that question it looks like I could move everything across to an FM190. Does this seem accurate? Think those wheels and hubs could just slip right on?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

The hubs on a pugs are 135mm long, the 190 needs a 190mm long hub, so you can't move them over. You may be able to move the front, but if I recall correctly even on that spacing the Pugs is different (front vs rear).


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

Freerider said:


> Here's my IP18 (sorry for the bad pics). Rides great. 26.9 lbs as pictured.
> 
> View attachment 941279
> 
> ...


Looks like you got the Dillinger 5 to fit on 90mm rims. What crank did you go with?


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

kmjelle said:


> I would think so too, but can't find any different spindle lenghts to choose from. Just says BSA 100 bb is an option. Race Face Next SL Cinch 1X Crankset > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA - Mobile


100mm BB is all they make. raceface sells a spacer to be used in the middle if your putting it on a 120mm bb shell. I personally would stay away from a 120mm shell though. 100mm bb is the size of the shell.. the spindle will be differentiated by the term 170mm spaced, or 190mm spaced.

170mm spaced crank arms and spindle (DON'T confuse that with crank arm length)=100mm spindle
190mm spaced crank arms and spindle = 120mm and they provide you with 2-10mm spacers for each side of the crank that go outside the BB on the spindle next to the crank arms...


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

vtmtber said:


> View attachment 942801
> View attachment 942802
> View attachment 942803
> 
> I have finally finished my FM190 build. It took longer than expected after first receiving an incorrect frame. Everything went together well but I did have to clean out some of the internal cable holes and also the threads on the rear brake boss have to be cleaned up. I built the bike up with the Dengfu carbon wheels as I didn't want to chance any fit issues with the rear wheel. As you know the Dengfu wheels come with the spacers. When I didn't need to use the spacer on the non-drive side, when I did put that spacer in the spacing was too wide and the caliper would not line up properly. Without that spacer everything fit as it should. I tried not using the spacer on the drive side and the cassette lock ring hit against the dropout chip so I installed the spacer on the drive side and everything works well. I have only ridden the bike around my driveway but it feels light and quick compared to my old Pugsley. I'm looking forward to getting a real ride in


any info on the seeming quality of the "chosen" hubs that those wheels come with? Points of engagement etc.. ?


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Crank compatibility is difficult, even for the staff at Jenson. There are aparently different versions of the RF Next sl crank.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

So does this mean if you have a threaded 120mm BB shell, these cranks will fit if you use the 190mm spaced spindle?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Velobike said:


> So does this mean if you have a threaded 120mm BB shell, these cranks will fit if you use the 190mm spaced spindle?


yes, without spacers


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Seems diffucult to find anyone that has the RF Next sl fatbike crankarms (100mm spindle), RF B6 100mm BSA bb and 26 or 28T NW drivetrain in stock. Links to available items are appreciated. Or equal alternatives.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i know universal cycles had them a week or so ago


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

The sram bb30 cranks bolt to the raceface spindle. some can be found on eBay cheap. X9 and up have aftermarket direct mount support.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

*Universal it is*

Looks ok? A bit of money, but I dont have to worry about upgrades in the near future  Any recent rumours about when the new lightweight Jumbo Jims are available?


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

manchvegas said:


> any info on the seeming quality of the "chosen" hubs that those wheels come with? Points of engagement etc.. ?


I have been riding the Chosen hubs all season and so far so good. As far as engagement, they are definitely better than my previous salsa hubs.


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

kmjelle said:


> Looks ok?
> 
> View attachment 944322


Treefort has those cranks for $371.99.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Thats good to hear.. the dengfu wheelset comes with chosen hubs.. thats why Im asking..


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

I got my turbine cinch 190 spaced with 28t direct mount and 100mm bb with spacers etc.. for 300 shipped off a shop on pinkbike.. pretty good deal an.he was great to.work with


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

kmjelle said:


> Any recent rumours about when the new lightweight Jumbo Jims are available?


good question.. anyone?


----------



## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

manchvegas said:


> I got my turbine cinch 190 spaced with 28t direct mount and 100mm bb with spacers etc.. for 300 shipped off a shop on pinkbike.. pretty good deal an.he was great to.work with


I also found the Turbine to be a good compromise between price and quality/weight. Availability was also abundant. But then I thought, "the crank is rotating mass, better save som weight there" (and wheelset).


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## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

What's better for running a front derailleur on a carbon fatty a direct mount with the properly spaced adapter or an E type? I took a ride on my fm190 which I set up single in the front with a 32nw chainring, in the rear I have an 11-36 cassette. This gearing works fine on dirt but when the snow comes and the trail conditions get soft I feel like Ill be walking more than if like. I already have a shifter to use so I just need to figure out which is the better way to with the derailleur set up. I'm thinking I would use 34-24 in the front.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

I fitted a 42t Wolftooth GC, had it for a while but needed to get a type 2 derailleur before it worked... the top derailleur wheel is offset more on the type 2's so works with the big cog. Also go a Medium cage if you go down this road, i'm now running a 32 front with 11-42 rear (10spd)

Contemplated going 11spd but I'm now 1 x 10spd on 4 bikes... couldn't be fekked with carrying spares for 10 & 11.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

djrez4 said:


> Treefort has those cranks for $371.99.


But I am not sure they ship abroad, to Norway. I have sent them an email. Just realized my frame has 190mm rear spacing, so I needed to change the crank arms.


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

vtmtber said:


> View attachment 942801
> View attachment 942802
> View attachment 942803
> 
> I have finally finished my FM190 build. It took longer than expected after first receiving an incorrect frame. Everything went together well but I did have to clean out some of the internal cable holes and also the threads on the rear brake boss have to be cleaned up. I built the bike up with the Dengfu carbon wheels as I didn't want to chance any fit issues with the rear wheel. As you know the Dengfu wheels come with the spacers. When I didn't need to use the spacer on the non-drive side, when I did put that spacer in the spacing was too wide and the caliper would not line up properly. Without that spacer everything fit as it should. I tried not using the spacer on the drive side and the cassette lock ring hit against the dropout chip so I installed the spacer on the drive side and everything works well. I have only ridden the bike around my driveway but it feels light and quick compared to my old Pugsley. I'm looking forward to getting a real ride in


So.. this post has me a little concerned... vtmtber.. the stock chosen hub that comes with the dengfu wheelset is 190mm im assuming with 3.5mm spacers for each side ? So your saying you only used 1 spacer? That would make the spacing 193.5? Kinda concered as i have 6 FM190 frames on order.. anyone else have his problem? Maybe he has an.older frame with spacing issues?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

manchvegas, check page 49, Jay built up same frame with same hubs and didnt mention any issues. maybe he could chime in.


----------



## Pauldotcom (Aug 15, 2010)

Where did you get the frame? I looked around and couldn't find it. This is the one! Thanks


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## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

Sorry guys been absent for ages. As stated my frame is spaced spot on at 197mm. The hub is 190mm and the 2 x 3.5mm spacers fit in either side, not tight not loose. Brake spacing is also perfect with the spacers installed.


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## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

So.. this post has me a little concerned... vtmtber.. the stock chosen hub that comes with the dengfu wheelset is 190mm im assuming with 3.5mm spacers for each side ? So your saying you only used 1 spacer? That would make the spacing 193.5? Kinda concered as i have 6 FM190 frames on order.. anyone else have his problem? Maybe he has an.older frame with spacing issues?[/QUOTE]

Here's some pics of my rear spacing measurement. Definitely wider than 190, but not 197. The pic of the clearance between the rotor and the brake mounting post is without the spacer on that side. Using the one spacer on the drive side the wheel fits perfect. When I used both spacers before I attached the brake slight spreading of the stays was needed to fit the wheel into the frame. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but the rotor and caliper would not line up using the spacer on the non drive side. Like I said everything lines up and works perfect using the one spacer on the drive side. It would be interesting to see other peoples measurements on their fm190s and what hubs they used.


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

There's just one piece of information missing. Is the wheel centered in the frame? Granted it's probably close enough ,and the specs of the frame could be slightly off. Just to tie it up in a nice package. Anyone else curious?


----------



## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

*bottom bracket tool*

Is this suitable for Raceface BSA 100mm bb? Or do I absolutely need the special tool by Raceface, twice the price?


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Jay_RigidRide said:


> Sorry guys been absent for ages. As stated my frame is spaced spot on at 197mm. The hub is 190mm and the 2 x 3.5mm spacers fit in either side, not tight not loose. Brake spacing is also perfect with the spacers installed.


thanks Jay, makes me wander why other poster had issue


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## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

kidd said:


> There's just one piece of information missing. Is the wheel centered in the frame? Granted it's probably close enough ,and the specs of the frame could be slightly off. Just to tie it up in a nice package. Anyone else curious?


The wheel does look to be slightly off center, plenty off clearance on each side with a 4.0 tire. Mounting a wider tire might be an issue. Maybe if I had 1.75 spacers on each side everything would center and work. I don't plan on running larger tires at this point.
Maybe when Manchvegas gets the 6 frames he can measure and see how consistent the spacing is. These are unbranded Chinese frames, we get what we pay for. I'm happy that I can ride mine as is. It rides great, feels light and quick for the fraction of the price of other brand name fattys. Lets just hope it stays together.


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

The dropout hanger that vtmtber has pictured has a ring that the hub sits on, not a flush surface. Are these dropout hangers the same as others have received?

Also, are these dropout hangers universal and easily available or are they relatively unique?


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

vtmtber said:


> The wheel does look to be slightly off center, plenty off clearance on each side with a 4.0 tire. Mounting a wider tire might be an issue. .


ok, this makes me think your frame might be different than others? it does look same but we do already know fm190 fits large tires (4.8").


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Ya i think there is something wrong with your frame vtmtber.. if looks to be 4mm off and having the wheel offcenter could screw up running large tires. Hopefully my frames dont end up having these issues. As they are all custom painted..


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Moi's is spot on. Didnt measure it but the Hope 197mm hub dropped straight in and the brakes are sitting centre of the slots, so able to adjust both ways still.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzy, does the dropout looks same as on vtmtbers images?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

looking at vtmtbers images again, it seems like the spacing between inner most faces of dropouts is 190mm. maybe you accidentally got wrong dropouts for 190mm hub? or even better one dropout for 190 spacing and one for 197? i would contact wendy to see what she says.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Yes, looks like its the same. Dropouts flush with the frame.


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## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

brankulo said:


> looking at vtmtbers images again, it seems like the spacing between inner most faces of dropouts is 190mm. maybe you accidentally got wrong dropouts for 190mm hub? or even better one dropout for 190 spacing and one for 197? i would contact wendy to see what she says.























Thanks for thinking that the drop out chips might have been wrong. Luckily I had access to a Dengfu with 142 rear spacing. I compared the dropouts and they are different. You can see in the photos the dropout with the recessed area is off the 142 which is the same as the 197. The incorrect dropout that came on my fm190 is the flat one with the half circle lip around the top edge. I installed both dropouts with the recess and the measurement is right around 198mm. I mounted the wheel with the spacers on each side and everything lines up perfect. now I just need to explain this to Wendy and get them to send me the correct dropouts.
Thanks for the help!! Also thanks to Jay and Ozzy for sharing their info and photos. Hopefully this helps out anyone in the future that might get the wrong dropouts on their fm190.

vtmtber


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Awesome Vtmtber thats great to hear its something simple like that! Thanks for updating us!


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Which one is the correct one? The first or second picture?


----------



## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

manchvegas said:


> Which one is the correct one? The first or second picture?


The first picture is the correct one. The 3.5mm spacers that come with the Chosen hubs fit right into that recessed area.


----------



## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

kmjelle said:


> But I am not sure they ship abroad, to Norway. I have sent them an email.


Sorry. Forgot you were Norwegian!


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

vtmtber said:


> View attachment 945183
> 
> 
> The incorrect dropout that came on my fm190 is the flat one with the half circle lip around the top edge.


These are the dropouts that are on my frame, as I said my hub drops straight in, so I am still thinking you have something else going on... but if everything fits, then its all good.

You look like you are going 3.5mm closer with the "142" style dropout... you might going to be very close with your disc to the post mounts.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> These are the dropouts that are on my frame, as I said my hub drops straight in, so I am still thinking you have something else going on... but if everything fits, then its all good.
> 
> You look like you are going 3.5mm closer with the "142" style dropout... you might going to be very close with your disc to the post mounts.


weird, weird, weird


----------



## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

kmjelle said:


> Is this suitable for Raceface BSA 100mm bb? Or do I absolutely need the special tool by Raceface, twice the price?


Wrong tool. Your link is for regular external bearing tool for 24mm spindles. You need the Race Face BSA30 tool. Larger diameter than the standard 24mm spindle external bearing cups. The only other compatible tools are from Enduro Bearings, Zipp or Rotor...all of which are even more $$$ than the Race Face tool.


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

Yup, weird. I'm not into this added complexity. 

At least there are options to make up a few mm if your frame comes out the mold a little funny. Does anyone know where you can get the dropouts other than from dengfu?


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

*Turbine cinch*



djrez4 said:


> Sorry. Forgot you were Norwegian!


I ordered from Universalcycles, slightly lower grade crank arms, RF Turbine cinch. Frame and wheels are soon on its way from The peoples republic of China.


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## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

ozzybmx said:


> These are the dropouts that are on my frame, as I said my hub drops straight in, so I am still thinking you have something else going on... but if everything fits, then its all good.
> 
> You look like you are going 3.5mm closer with the "142" style dropout... you might going to be very close with your disc to the post mounts.


Disc to post space hasn't changed. I originally didn't use the 3.5mmspacer on the non drive side that comes with the Chosen hubs. The recessed drop out is 3.5mm so the spacer is flush with the inside of the dropout. I didn't even have to adjust the caliper after changing the dropouts. I did have to readjust the derailleur limit screws. The recessed 142 dropouts allowed room for the spacers on each side and centered the wheel. 
It would be interesting to see rear spacing measurements from other fm190s and what dropouts where used.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

so this really means you have 190mm in between faces of stays vs 197mm on ozzys frame.


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## dcrowe (Oct 9, 2009)

Thought I would add a few pics of the FM190 with standard QR. Waiting for spokes so doing what I can. Disc lined up reasonably well without the Avid alignment washers. Dropouts are slightly sprung past 190 but totally within tolerance.

So far I am pleased with frame with one minor annoyance. The internal disk routing is for a cable brake. I'm tempted to drill it out and fish the hose thru.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

dcrowe said:


> Thought I would add a few pics of the FM190 with standard QR. Waiting for spokes so doing what I can. Disc lined up reasonably well without the Avid alignment washers. Dropouts are slightly sprung past 190 but totally within tolerance.
> 
> So far I am pleased with frame with one minor annoyance. The internal disk routing is for a cable brake. I'm tempted to drill it out and fish the hose thru.
> 
> ...


It looks like your dropouts are different, they don't have the raised lip around the top half of the inside of the dropout. The raised lip is what rubbed on my cassette lock ring.


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

vtmtber said:


> It looks like your dropouts are different, they don't have the raised lip around the top half of the inside of the dropout. The raised lip is what rubbed on my cassette lock ring.


That's because he has a QR instead of a thru axle.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

this is just a speculation, but could dengfu be making 2 variations of fm190, one for qr with 190 between stays and one for thru axle with 197mm between stays? seems like on dcrowes frame there is 190mm since qr hub is 190mm and the dropouts seem to be flush with stays . if that is so, maybe vtmtbr received qr version of the frame.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

QR should just be a different drop out though not a different frame.. looks like he just recieved one wrong drop out as he is running though axle not qr correct ?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

manchvegas said:


> QR should just be a different drop out though not a different frame..


right, but this does not seem to be case here. both dcrowes and ozzys frame have dropout faces flush with face of stays, yet one uses 190mm qr and one 197 thru axle. again, just speculating, photos can be deceiving.


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## poonstar (Dec 1, 2014)

My Fatbike came to 24.62 lbs


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

brankulo said:


> right, but this does not seem to be case here. both dcrowes and ozzys frame have dropout faces flush with face of stays, yet one uses 190mm qr and one 197 thru axle. again, just speculating, photos can be deceiving.


Yes... looks strange.


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

poonstar said:


> My Fatbike came to 24.62 lbs


Hi Poonstar,

May i ask where did you buy the frame? is the BB shell BSA and 120mm? Can you also tell me which store did you get the crankset and BB? Thanks very much dude!


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Looks sharp. Are you going to run flats or clipped in?


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## dcrowe (Oct 9, 2009)

Here's a pic of my fm190 standard QR version with Bud on a Shoe. Clearance is .5" on sides.









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## poonstar (Dec 1, 2014)

my fatbike is a 12x197 rear thru axle with 120 mm BSA BB. i purchased this through velobuild online. (VeloBuild Mall - DIY Carbon Fiber Bike Frames, Wheelsets and Parts Direct from China) I dealt with Chris and he was very quick and easy to deal with. He shipped my frame, fork and headset out on thursday and I received it at my door on the following monday. they also have a 2015 fatbike model which looks a bit different with 190 qr rear and 100 BSA BB.

I will be running twenty6 titanium spindle flats and clipless pedals depending on the time of year. Dillinger 5's will be swapped for 4's during the summmer so that will bring the weight down a little.

I purchased two sets of raceface next SL cranks from Bowcycle in Calgary. One set is for my trail bike. Unfortunately, the fat bike cranks have not arrived so I purchased the 190 spindle kit from Universal Cycles and they got it to me in 5 days for this build. According to a few shops that i've contacted, raceface has been extremely slow at shipping next cranks. for example my fat bike cranks shipped dec 3 from raceface canada and has not arrived to the shop a bit concerning considering it takes 3 days to ship within canada...oh well atleast its built and the trail bike can wait until next spring =)


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

Placing my fm190 + wheels + other goodies order on Monday, 12/15. Will post key steps along the way. Thanks to all who have posted and provided me inspiration and confidence! You guys are legends.


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

Hopefully dengfu gets a big order of frames in soon. Almost 4 weeks since I ordered 17.5 inch fm190 and still no shipping.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

tschewy said:


> Hopefully dengfu gets a big order of frames in soon. Almost 4 weeks since I ordered 17.5 inch fm190 and still no shipping.


yup, same with mine


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## dcrowe (Oct 9, 2009)

My 19.5 Dengfu took a month from order date to shipping. I admit to being nervous but once it shipped it was super fast to Canada with no delay in customs. 


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

DF told a couple days ago that they had a 19.5 or 21 in stock, but would be another week or two until they had the fork to ship. Now wondering if I should just going sans fork and go Bluto instead??


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## dcrowe (Oct 9, 2009)

My sense is that timelines are not ironclad with DF. Could be a cultural thing but my week or two was more like four. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

Can anyone with a Speedercycling FB02 190 rear spaced frame measure the outside of the rear chainstay's near the end of the crank arm. Trying to see if I can get away with a turbine crank in 170mm rear spacing.... thanks!!

Turbine for 170 rear has q-factor of 200
Turbine for 190 rear has q-factor of 222


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## Jaime72 (May 10, 2010)

jhmotard said:


> Can anyone with a Speedercycling FB02 190 rear spaced frame measure the outside of the rear chainstay's near the end of the crank arm. Trying to see if I can get away with a turbine crank in 170mm rear spacing.... thanks!!
> 
> Turbine for 170 rear has q-factor of 200
> Turbine for 190 rear has q-factor of 222


Learned an interesting trick for widening the narrow q-factor crankset. I have a 190 spacing Corvus and used some Race Face Direct Mount (DM) Next SL cranks from a mountain bike I have. My shop suggested flipping the DM chainring inside out, which pushes the chainline out a bit. Allows them to run the narrower q-factor crank on the 190 spacing and still have an adequate chainline! So far working great.


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## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm worried about interference with the crank arm and chainstay on the 170 spaced crankset........not quite the chainline.

I'm asking because I have a possible line on a turbine crankset in 170mm rear spacing. Just need to know if it will clear the chainstay's.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

jhmotard said:


> Can anyone with a Speedercycling FB02 190 rear spaced frame measure the outside of the rear chainstay's near the end of the crank arm. Trying to see if I can get away with a turbine crank in 170mm rear spacing.... thanks!!
> 
> Turbine for 170 rear has q-factor of 200
> Turbine for 190 rear has q-factor of 222


Apparently the Turbin CINCH models have +10mm q-factor. Check with RF directly, but that would put the 170rear Turbine CINCH at 210mm q-factor, giving you probably more than enough clearance.


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## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

Okay thank's I'll keep that in mind. But still need to know if this other Turbine will fit before making a decision.


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

newbie question.
most of the Chinese frames available out there has 120mm BSA BB housing. can I use a 100mm BB for SRAM or Next Race crank for this frame?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Minionbike said:


> newbie question.
> most of the Chinese frames available out there has 120mm BSA BB housing. can I use a 100mm BB for SRAM or Next Race crank for this frame?


Yes, you can use a 68mm, 73mm or 100mm BB... but the "tube" that goes between them won't fit.

I've ran a standard 68/73 Hope BB on my Obeast for ~2 years.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

To clarify, the screw in BSA bearing cups are the same no matter the width of the frame. It is only the tube between the cups that will be a different length. The first bottom bracket you buy should be the correct width. After that, you could reuse the tube/sleeve as long it is for the exact same model of bottom bracket.

You could possibly just not use a sleeve at all. But i'm not sure what problems that could lead to. In the very least it would probably lead to more water/mud getting into the frame.


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## dcrowe (Oct 9, 2009)

jhmotard said:


> Can anyone with a Speedercycling FB02 190 rear spaced frame measure the outside of the rear chainstay's near the end of the crank arm. Trying to see if I can get away with a turbine crank in 170mm rear spacing.... thanks!!
> 
> Turbine for 170 rear has q-factor of 200
> Turbine for 190 rear has q-factor of 222


I have an FM 190 with the Turbine Cinch 170 axle and 26t ring flipped. There is nearly 5 mm clearance on each side.

Sorry that I can't directly answer your question re FB02

Also have 68/73 bb and tossed the tube

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

revelcru said:


> DF told a couple days ago that they had a 19.5 or 21 in stock, but would be another week or two until they had the fork to ship. Now wondering if I should just going sans fork and go Bluto instead??


my dengfu frame/fork along with some other stuff shipped yesterday. will report back after it arrives.


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

You're certainly a couple steps ahead of me, brankulo... I placed my order (decided to get their fork instead of a Bluto) this AM and can't wait to hear they got my cash and that everything has shipped. Based on the fact that your order has shipped they now must have everything in stock, which is a relief. Looking forward to hearing build progess from you and others.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Man, frame wise this thread is getting hard to keep straight! I've gone all the way back 30 pages.

There are lots of frames to choose from, but each one of them has something a little different that I don't like. I'm looking for a 19" frame that I can run 29+ on with a Bluto 120mm. Something close to the Borealis Echo... The FM190 looks pretty good, but the CS length of 468mm is way to long; I need 445mm to run 29+ on 50mm rims. I don't mind using the 3mm crown race to make the Bluto fit, but the head tube is already huge!! Does the 190 have a hole close to the ST/TT intersection to bring the cable of a non internal dropper out of to the seat post? 

The ICAN SN03 looks okay, but not much info on it here. Any feedback?

I'm afraid the Ip-018 is too small or too big in the two sizes they offer. The IP-019 has the super long CS length like the FM190, kind of a turn off.

Any advice or summaries whats been said so far. I'm buying to run 29+ and not worried about running the 26" 4.5 tires, but want the option to run 26" 4+ tires later.

Thanks for setting me straight!


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## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

poonstar said:


> My Fatbike came to 24.62 lbs


Look great , This Frame must be the VB-FB-010 with 445MM chain stays.

I think I want to order one, but was afraid 5.0 tire would not fit!

Could you take some pictures of the tire clearance at the BB and the Chain stays?

and crank arm to chain stay clearance

That would help


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

DF just informed me they actually don't have the fork in stock yet, but will by 20th and can ship out next week. Fingers crossed. Time to start figuring out the groupo...


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## RaceFace-suit (Jun 29, 2011)

jhmotard said:


> Can anyone with a Speedercycling FB02 190 rear spaced frame measure the outside of the rear chainstay's near the end of the crank arm. Trying to see if I can get away with a turbine crank in 170mm rear spacing.... thanks!!
> 
> Turbine for 170 rear has q-factor of 200
> Turbine for 190 rear has q-factor of 222


The Turbine CINCH spaced for 170mm rears has inner arm clearance of 189.8mm, so centerline to inside arm would be 94.9mm per side. Hopefully this is helpful, but please let me know if you need anymore info!


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## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

Thanks that is really helpful!


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## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

Does Race Face make a 180mm length crank arm that will fit a fat bike with XX1 11 speed?


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## RaceFace-suit (Jun 29, 2011)

Big Foot said:


> Does Race Face make a 180mm length crank arm that will fit a fat bike with XX1 11 speed?


Yup! The best option would be the Turbine CINCH crank with DM ring which is compatible with all 9, 10 and 11 speed drivetrains. Just get the cranks built with the 170mm spaced spindle and flip our DM ring if you're running a Fatbike with a 190 rear. This will give you the tightest Q-Factor and has been the most popular setup by far.

Your shop will need to order this directly from RF though as none of the distro's stock 180mm Turbines. PM me and I'll give you my direct email to pass along to the shop. Our phone lines have been insanely busy recently, so I'll just get in touch with yoru shop direct.

Thanks!


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## fatbiker74 (Nov 18, 2014)

Race Face suit, has RF updated that PDF table that lists all the q factors? I'm one of your customers who bought a 170 spacing cinch turbine and, since RF didn't reveal until recently how wide these are until posts like yours above, I was disappointed to find after installation the excessive amt of clearance the arms have on my mukluk.


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## biketavioumaximus (Jun 28, 2007)

*Nice bike*

Hi there,

Nice bike, what size is the frame and would you have a link to it???

It looks great!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ozzybmx said:


> Build complete ! Went together without any issues, just need to buy a new Hope brake hose for the rear as it is not long enough to tie to all the mounting points under the BB, currently stretched over the top of the BB until the new hose arrives.
> 
> Yes, Next SL cranks with the 100mm spindle for 170mm frames, there is about 2-3mm on each side, I removed the crank protector boot from drive side but will be able to put it back on as there is not much flex.
> 
> ...


That is badass! It makes me wish I had to ride in sand and/or snow.


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## RaceFace-suit (Jun 29, 2011)

fatbiker74 said:


> Race Face suit, has RF updated that PDF table that lists all the q factors? I'm one of your customers who bought a 170 spacing cinch turbine and, since RF didn't reveal until recently how wide these are until posts like yours above, I was disappointed to find after installation the excessive amt of clearance the arms have on my mukluk.


Should be released shortly after the new year. We apologize for the delay, but with so many new product launches in the last little while (and much more in the pipe) we haven't had a chance to update the clearance and Q-Factor charts. It's definitely on the to do list.

Just as an FYI regarding the wider Q of the Turbine CINCH cranks; we felt we had to increase the Q of these to ensure they'd have the widest range of compatibility possible. With the last gen Turbine cranks, we ran into some arm clearance issues on a couple of frames due to the bend of the arm and Q-Factor. Since the whole idea behind the CINCH interface is to make the cranks essentially "future-proof" we made a slight increase in the Q-Factor to ensure the cranks fit all new frames on the market. To help mitigate the increased Q, we did design them with features like the flip-able DM ring to allow Fatty's with 190 rears to run the tighter 170mm spaced spindle on 1x setups and still clear 4.8"s.

Hope this helps!


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## fatbiker74 (Nov 18, 2014)

Thanks, no one at race face was able to answer why the cinch turbine was so wide that the 170 version has developed a reputation as the right choice for a lot of 190 frames. 

RF is free to make weird design decisions, but in this case it would have been helpful if SOMEWHERE on you site you had informed us of how wide these things are. I have two pairs of next SLs---perfect amt of clearance on my frames--and used to own 170 turbines--also fit multiple fatbike frames well....and I had no idea RF was secretly increasing the width of the cinch turbines so much. So now I have a 'used' (ie installed but never ridden) set of 170 rear cinch turbines that aren't well suited to any of my bikes, gathering dust, and multiple promises from RF CS that 'they'll get back to me on some sort of solution' but RF never does. I asked if I could exchange the arms for next SL arms and pay the difference, but again, no replies from RF. 

I'm not steaming mad just disappointed at how RF has dropped the ball. I've been buying your products for years... Anyway sorry for the thread drift.


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

fatbiker74 said:


> Thanks, no one at race face was able to answer why the cinch turbine was so wide that the 170 version has developed a reputation as the right choice for a lot of 190 frames.
> 
> RF is free to make weird design decisions, but in this case it would have been helpful if SOMEWHERE on you site you had informed us of how wide these things are. I have two pairs of next SLs---perfect amt of clearance on my frames--and used to own 170 turbines--also fit multiple fatbike frames well....and I had no idea RF was secretly increasing the width of the cinch turbines so much. So now I have a 'used' (ie installed but never ridden) set of 170 rear cinch turbines that aren't well suited to any of my bikes, gathering dust, and multiple promises from RF CS that 'they'll get back to me on some sort of solution' but RF never does. I asked if I could exchange the arms for next SL arms and pay the difference, but again, no replies from RF.
> 
> I'm not steaming mad just disappointed at how RF has dropped the ball. I've been buying your products for years... Anyway sorry for the thread drift.


Same boat for me but with a 190. Once I get a 170 spindle I don't think I will ever need the 190 again.


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## RaceFace-suit (Jun 29, 2011)

fatbiker74 said:


> Thanks, no one at race face was able to answer why the cinch turbine was so wide that the 170 version has developed a reputation as the right choice for a lot of 190 frames.
> 
> RF is free to make weird design decisions, but in this case it would have been helpful if SOMEWHERE on you site you had informed us of how wide these things are. I have two pairs of next SLs---perfect amt of clearance on my frames--and used to own 170 turbines--also fit multiple fatbike frames well....and I had no idea RF was secretly increasing the width of the cinch turbines so much. So now I have a 'used' (ie installed but never ridden) set of 170 rear cinch turbines that aren't well suited to any of my bikes, gathering dust, and multiple promises from RF CS that 'they'll get back to me on some sort of solution' but RF never does. I asked if I could exchange the arms for next SL arms and pay the difference, but again, no replies from RF.
> 
> I'm not steaming mad just disappointed at how RF has dropped the ball. I've been buying your products for years... Anyway sorry for the thread drift.


Yes, again I apologize for not listing it anywhere on the site. We're still a relatively tiny crew of people here, so sometimes the finer details like making Q-Factors and clearances listed on our site falls through the cracks.

Our CS/Inside Sales team has been insanely tied up with the recent acquisition of Easton Cycling, so that's unfortunate to hear that they've delivered false promises like above. PM me and I'll shoot you my direct email so I can look into doing the upgrade to the SL's as you've requested.

Thanks!


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## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

Some info for iP-010 (190mm) owners looking for wider tyres. This is the revised frame with Specialized Ground Control 4.6" on 70mm rims:





















Plenty of clearance :thumbsup: I'm pretty sure they'll work on 90mm Nexties too. Will be trying that soon.


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

Cool color.


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## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

aizu1 said:


> Cool color.


Thanks! The colour looks weird/dull under artificial light. In reality it is fluorescent green


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

I noticed that my blue Nextie wheels looked like they were glowing on a night ride.
Kinda weird.


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## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

RaceFace-suit said:


> Yup! The best option would be the Turbine CINCH crank with DM ring which is compatible with all 9, 10 and 11 speed drivetrains. Just get the cranks built with the 170mm spaced spindle and flip our DM ring if you're running a Fatbike with a 190 rear. This will give you the tightest Q-Factor and has been the most popular setup by far.
> 
> Your shop will need to order this directly from RF though as none of the distro's stock 180mm Turbines. PM me and I'll give you my direct email to pass along to the shop. Our phone lines have been insanely busy recently, so I'll just get in touch with yoru shop direct.
> 
> Thanks!


This is great info (thanks)
Next question:
Is there a way to have Turbine Cinch with 1 X 11 and have a 4 bolt spider so you could run a 28T ring, for rocky steep climb rides (in the mountains), and quickly change the front ring to a 34T for a urban Assault ride (In the city)?
this would be similar to the Sram XX1 crank


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## RaceFace-suit (Jun 29, 2011)

Big Foot said:


> This is great info (thanks)
> Next question:
> Is there a way to have Turbine Cinch with 1 X 11 and have a 4 bolt spider so you could run a 28T ring, for rocky steep climb rides (in the mountains), and quickly change the front ring to a 34T for a urban Assault ride (In the city)?
> this would be similar to the Sram XX1 crank


Certainly. Best bet would be to just get the DM 28t and DM 34t ring. It's lighter than 4 bolt w/ spider setup and easier to swap rings (remove arm with 8mm hex key and un-thread lockring, so no chainring bolts/nuts to deal with). If you wanted to do a 4 bolt spider setup, you'd have to find a 28t ring that bolts to the granny ring as we offer the CINCH spider in the industry standard 104/64 BCD. Let me know if you have any other questions!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

aizu1 said:


> I noticed that my blue Nextie wheels looked like they were glowing on a night ride.
> Kinda weird.


Probably radioactive Chinese carbon.


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## acetechm3 (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a fattie, and would like your thoughts. I have read every post in this thread and have learned a lot but much is still unclear.
So I'm thinking possibly going with the LTK010 from light bike with 170 rear spacing, that is the first question, 170 or 190. I think 170 will be narrower chain stays good for my size 12 feet and narrower crank width. The counter point is that 190 seems to be the new standard, I'm thinking of a 4 seasons bike with 65mm rims so uber fat tires not a must.
I'm thinking of trying the suspension fork from light bike as well, at the price they are asking it's very tempting.
I am assuming the 010 frame is common among all the sellers and am hoping it has had all the corrections made.


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

acetechm3 said:


> .... and am hoping it has had all the corrections made.


Definitely would clarify that with them.


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## Pivvay (Aug 19, 2004)

So does the denfu 190 clear an xx1 crank with gpx spindle enough for an x9 stages to clear? If so I could have my new frame and just run the darn Phil ebb


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

my dengfu frame along with some other stuff came yesterday. everything seems to line up properly in the rear.


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

brankulo said:


> my dengfu frame along with some other stuff came yesterday. everything seems to line up properly in the rear.


Lucky you! My tracking still just reads Xiamen, so who knows where it is. Leaving today for vacation so the box will have a nice wait at the post office before I pick it up.

Remind me, which hub/wheel combo did you go with? Built by who?

I had to send one of my wheels back to china as the carbon was cracking around the nipple. I don't know much about these things but I'd guess they overtightened the spoke when building the wheel. My point is look everything over super closely as QC might be lacking!


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

tracking shows xiamen until it gets to usa (or any other country i assume). my last two frames took 5 days to ship to colorado.

i got chosen hubs, i have nextie 90mm rims. need to lace them now. hubs came from denfu too, 190mm plus 2 spacers. i will most likely get 197 end caps, i think stans onee are compatible ones.


----------



## Pivvay (Aug 19, 2004)

Anyone with a denfu fm 190 (100mm bb) that would be willing to answer a couple questions for me?


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## carbonguy (Dec 12, 2012)

dfiler said:


> The drivetrain is mounted but I ran into a problem. The chain on the 11 tooth cassette ring is really close to the derailer hanger. The rub is slight and the gear is still technically usable. However I'll figure out a way to space them apart about few more millimeters.
> 
> I might get the 197x12mm end caps for the rear hub instead of the 190x12mm caps i'm using now. Then space the brake rotor outboard to make up that 3.5mm.
> 
> ...


Late reply, but about how much rear tire clearance is there with the Lou? Please also list approximate tire pressure. It looks very close from the picture.
Thanks!


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## carbonguy (Dec 12, 2012)

mikesee said:


> A new-to-me customer just dropped off a SN01 frame for me to assemble.
> 
> Can anyone steer me toward a headset for it? She'll be running Bluto.
> 
> ...


Can you give any updates on rear tire clearance? Also, is that the new 2015 version with 197mm rear spacing frame?


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## slowjud (Dec 22, 2014)

After lurking for ages I thought I'd post my build (which I finished on the weekend):

Speeder Cycles FB02
Bluto 100mm fork
Raceface Turbine Cranks with 34t narrow-wide chainring
Hope Tech3 X2 brakes with blue bling bits
SRAM X0 rear mech and shifter
E*13 EX 42T
I9 hubs laced to HED Big Deal
Easton stem/bars/post
45nrth Vanhelga rubber

Weighing in just under 12kg.

In the end it took me 6 months to collect all the parts.
To run the bluto on the FB02 I used the niner 5mm crown race.
As soon as I rode it into the office it got the nick name bruiser since it's all black and blue.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

carbonguy said:


> Late reply, but about how much rear tire clearance is there with the Lou? Please also list approximate tire pressure. It looks very close from the picture.
> Thanks!


There is tons of clearance, enough room for my finger between the tire and frame. Photos are posted somewhere in this thread. Unsure about the pressure, I just go by feel. No matter the pressure there is more than enough clearance even with mud or snow buildup.


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## carbonguy (Dec 12, 2012)

dfiler said:


> There is tons of clearance, enough room for my finger between the tire and frame. Photos are posted somewhere in this thread. Unsure about the pressure, I just go by feel. No matter the pressure there is more than enough clearance even with mud or snow buildup.


Thanks for clarifying. In the picture the clearance looked very tight, but it must have been just the angle from which you took it.


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## carbonguy (Dec 12, 2012)

poonstar said:


> My Fatbike came to 24.62 lbs


Hey Poonstar, looks like you fit Dillinger 5's in there on 90 mm rims. Can you show a picture with chain stay clearance? Or measure it? I'd like to get a Lou on a Clownshoe in the rear on this frame.


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## BOA (Mar 4, 2013)

photo and bike credit to freerider


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## BOA (Mar 4, 2013)

Freerider said:


> Here's my IP18 (sorry for the bad pics). Rides great. 26.9 lbs as pictured.
> 
> View attachment 941279
> 
> ...


Great looking IP018 Freerider

Short chain stay, slack head angle, can do 4.8 on 90mm rims!

Can you give us a part list?
Bottom bracket Cranks (arm length) Chain Ring etc as much as you can please


----------



## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

slowjud said:


> After lurking for ages I thought I'd post my build (which I finished on the weekend):
> 
> Speeder Cycles FB02
> Bluto 100mm fork
> ...


Hold the phone....that look's like the FB01... Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) products- Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) factories,manufactures,Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) suppliers


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## slowjud (Dec 22, 2014)

jhmotard said:


> Hold the phone....that look's like the FB01... Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) products- Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) factories,manufactures,Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) suppliers


You're right. originally I asked for the FB02 I switched to the fb01 because of the 197 rear spacing. I didn't want to mess with the 190 thru-axle.


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

*Sn01*

Well I just finished up my fatty build and thought I should post some info and pics to add to the thread. Sorry for the marginal quality photos..

I ordered a 19" SN01 frame, 197x12, 120mm bb, as well as a 90mm carbon wheelset with Powerway M74 hubs from Icanbikes.com. (I'm suspect this may be the same or at least very similar to the Dengfu FM190, though I haven't compared them too closely..) I dealt with 'Linda' who was very prompt and helpful. The frame arrived exactly 5 Days after sending payment! I was blown away by that.. They were waiting on 197x12 rear hub) to build my wheelset so I had to wait and additional 2 weeks for that to arrive.

The quality of the frame and wheels are excellent. No hub or brake spacing issues whatsoever, there's good clearance for 4.8 Surly Buds, and my Bluto clears the dt with no spacers, using their brand headset (which was only like $4 I think..). My build is a little interesting because I was trying to make use of some new and used parts I've had kicking around so I made myself get a little creative to make this work, mainly with the crank and brakes... Its only seen a ride around my yard so far but i think Im really liking the geometry.. It came in at 28.1 lbs. It could definitely be lightened up still, the seatpost is beastly, so is the rear axle, as are the spokes and nipples..

Ican 90mm rims on Powerway m74 hubs
100mm Bluto
Ican headset, seat collar, and carbon post
Used wtb rocket saddle w/ ti rails
Ned old stock XTR m975 IS Brakes that I modified to fit post mnt w/ 180 rotors
XTR 9 speed 11-34 cassette
x0 shifter and rear derailleur 
XTR m980 crankset I lengthened to work with a120mm bb, with a 30t RF chainring
Easton ec70 bar and Thompson stem


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## acetechm3 (Apr 8, 2010)

Awesome build, tell us how you do the crank spindle extension, this would be a grate way to reuse my cranks on a fattie build.
And you say the seat post is heavy?


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

acetechm3 said:


> Awesome build, tell us how you do the crank spindle extension, this would be a grate way to reuse my cranks on a fattie build.
> And you say the seat post is heavy?


basically..: took some careful measurements, cut the spindle in half, my buddy then turned the extension piece to press fit into the ID of the two spindle halves with a shoulder at the required extra length (he also milled a very slight line in the spindle lengthwise before cutting it so we could be sure to align the two sides properly after cutting it), Then tig welded the three pieces together and cleaned up the welds with a file to the stock OD.

He did all this on big fancy CNC equipment, but it could all easily be done on a manual lathe too..


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

hiss2 said:


> basically..: took some careful measurements, cut the spindle in half, my buddy then turned the extension piece to press fit into the ID of the two spindle halves with a shoulder at the required extra length (he also milled a very slight line in the spindle lengthwise before cutting it so we could be sure to align the two sides properly after cutting it), Then tig welded the three pieces together and cleaned up the welds with a file to the stock OD.
> 
> He did all this on big fancy CNC equipment, but it could all easily be done on a manual lathe too..


That's very neat. What did you do to your calipers? wouldn't a standard IS to PM adapter have worked?

Thanks

Tim


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

nice build and hack. i too would be interested in the brake hack as you just teased us with a mention and one pic.


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Nice build and great to see you being able to reuse old parts. Looks like your friend is an ace with machines, great execution. Did he do any post weld heat treating? If not I would be cautious. Shimano uses some highly engineered metal.

Cheers!



hiss2 said:


> basically..: took some careful measurements, cut the spindle in half, my buddy then turned the extension piece to press fit into the ID of the two spindle halves with a shoulder at the required extra length (he also milled a very slight line in the spindle lengthwise before cutting it so we could be sure to align the two sides properly after cutting it), Then tig welded the three pieces together and cleaned up the welds with a file to the stock OD.
> 
> He did all this on big fancy CNC equipment, but it could all easily be done on a manual lathe too..


----------



## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

Wombat said:


> That's very neat. What did you do to your calipers? wouldn't a standard IS to PM adapter have worked?


I did buy a pair of shimano IS to PM adapters that were supposedly for 180mm, but when installed up front, it looked like it would have taken at least a 203mm rotor, if not bigger, to reach the caliper, and i didnt have one that big on hand.. And to use the adapter as-is in the rear it would have needed an even bigger one then the front.. All i really had to do is modify those adapters by grinding some away, and then adding a new hole (one i was able to reuse). Then on the calipers i had to cut off some length on the one long arm of the IS mount, and drill and tap a new hole closer to the caliper to bring the whole thing in towards the axle. There may be an off the shelf options out there, but i was jonesin' to get this thing built, and made it work.. especially since IS brakes are about worthless these days so i didnt feel bad modifying them.. I attached some photos of the end result but they dont show too much..



shoo said:


> Nice build and great to see you being able to reuse old parts. Looks like your friend is an ace with machines, great execution. Did he do any post weld heat treating? If not I would be cautious. Shimano uses some highly engineered metal.
> Cheers!


I did consider this but he, nor i, have the capability, or know-how for that mater, to heat treat anything effectively, so i left it as is.. The turned extension piece inserts quite far (about 7/8") into each each end so that really has to distribute the 'bending' load quite a bit. And to help with the tonsional load, we did drill two 3/16" holes through each cut end of the spindle before the insert was pressed in, which were then filled with weld once it was all together.. I attached a photo of that too pre-weld. In the end the o'l "we'll see" applies.. I promise to post carnage photos if it does implode on me!


----------



## carbonguy (Dec 12, 2012)

hiss2 said:


> Well I just finished up my fatty build and thought I should post some info and pics to add to the thread. Sorry for the marginal quality photos..
> 
> I ordered a 19" SN01 frame, 197x12, 120mm bb, as well as a 90mm carbon wheelset with Powerway M74 hubs from Icanbikes.com. (I'm suspect this may be the same or at least very similar to the Dengfu FM190, though I haven't compared them too closely..) I dealt with 'Linda' who was very prompt and helpful. The frame arrived exactly 5 Days after sending payment! I was blown away by that.. They were waiting on 197x12 rear hub) to build my wheelset so I had to wait and additional 2 weeks for that to arrive.
> 
> ...


Great looking fatbike! Good to hear that the geometry is alright. Can you get a money shot of the chain-stay clearance? It's really hard to tell in your picture how much tire/frame clearance there would be for a clownshoe rim.


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

carbonguy said:


> Great looking fatbike! Good to hear that the geometry is alright. Can you get a money shot of the chain-stay clearance? It's really hard to tell in your picture how much tire/frame clearance there would be for a clownshoe rim.


Couldn't get a decent photo but did measure it, its about 5-6mm at its closet point which is the tips of the outer most side lugs.. Tires were inflated pretty firmly when measured.. Not gobs of room but enough.. Im sure Buds on 100mm rims would probably clear but without too much extra room I suspect..


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## carbonguy (Dec 12, 2012)

hiss2 said:


> Couldn't get a decent photo but did measure it, its about 5-6mm at its closet point which is the tips of the outer most side lugs.. Tires were inflated pretty firmly when measured.. Not gobs of room but enough.. Im sure Buds on 100mm rims would probably clear but without too much extra room I suspect..


Thanks a lot. Sounds like a Lou on a 100mm rim would be too big then, since it's another couple mm wider.


----------



## No_Roads (Oct 27, 2012)

My size 19.5 DengFu fm190 arrived yesterday. 7 days from Xiamen to MN. Dropouts were correct and frame/fork look to be in perfect shape. I dropped it off at the builders today.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

forgot to mention that my dengfu fm190 came with dropouts with recess, not the ones with lip. everything seems to line up with chosen 190mm hub with 3.5mm spacer on each side.


----------



## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Awesome work. I enjoy just looking at the pictures. Thanks for your adventurous spirit.



hiss2 said:


> I did buy a pair of shimano IS to PM adapters that were supposedly for 180mm, but when installed up front, it looked like it would have taken at least a 203mm rotor, if not bigger, to reach the caliper, and i didnt have one that big on hand.. And to use the adapter as-is in the rear it would have needed an even bigger one then the front.. All i really had to do is modify those adapters by grinding some away, and then adding a new hole (one i was able to reuse). Then on the calipers i had to cut off some length on the one long arm of the IS mount, and drill and tap a new hole closer to the caliper to bring the whole thing in towards the axle. There may be an off the shelf options out there, but i was jonesin' to get this thing built, and made it work.. especially since IS brakes are about worthless these days so i didnt feel bad modifying them.. I attached some photos of the end result but they dont show too much..
> 
> I did consider this but he, nor i, have the capability, or know-how for that mater, to heat treat anything effectively, so i left it as is.. The turned extension piece inserts quite far (about 7/8") into each each end so that really has to distribute the 'bending' load quite a bit. And to help with the tonsional load, we did drill two 3/16" holes through each cut end of the spindle before the insert was pressed in, which were then filled with weld once it was all together.. I attached a photo of that too pre-weld. In the end the o'l "we'll see" applies.. I promise to post carnage photos if it does implode on me!


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*Yishunbike?*

Does anyone here have one of the Yishunbike framesets? I'm considering one.









YISHUNBIKE FM079 BB30/BSA 26er Snowbike,Fatbike Carbon Bicycle Frame [FM079]

Here's the pricing info on a build kit they're offering:















I've asked about the details on the crank and tires, but I'm actually only interested in the frameset, wheels and through axles.


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

I believe that is the same frame as the Q2 one I've been waiting on. It's still really new and there probably aren't many out there yet.

Looks like that build list is a bit outdated. The frames are 197mm rear now, probably should play it safe and buy the wheels, axles and frame from the same place to make sure they match.

Did they say what tire that is? If that is the Chao Yang/Fat B Nimble tire my credit card has work to do.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*More Yishunbike info*



arc said:


> I believe that is the same frame as the Q2 one I've been waiting on. It's still really new and there probably aren't many out there yet.
> 
> Looks like that build list is a bit outdated. The frames are 197mm rear now, probably should play it safe and buy the wheels, axles and frame from the same place to make sure they match.


The frame is 197mm, as is the rear wheel and through axle listed.



> Did they say what tire that is? If that is the Chao Yang/Fat B Nimble tire my credit card has work to do.


Here's exactly what they said:
"For tire and inner tube is brand of Chao yYang, a China mainland brand."
Is there something special about these?

As for the crank:
"The brand of crankset is TRS, pls find below link to see detail; TRS+ Fatbike Cranks | the hive"

This puzzles me, as I don't see anything from e-thirteen that's designed for a 190/197mm rear end. I'd prefer a double, but at that price, I'd be tempted to buy it just to have it as an option should I change my mind.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

Bnystrom said:


> Here's exactly what they said:
> "For tire and inner tube is brand of Chao yYang, a China mainland brand."
> Is there something special about these?
> 
> ...


Chao Yang is building the Fat B Nimble tire for Panaracer. If the tire you were quoted is made with the same molds and construction it should be an excellent summer tire. As far as I know the Fat B Nimble is only available in 4.0 with wire bead construction at this time. No one knows when the big Jumbo Jim from Schwalbe will be available. I have 90mm wide carbon rims and want a tire wide enough to protect the rims but don't want to push a set of buds around all summer.

I'm not sure how well that crank would work for you. The 104mm bolt circle limits you to a 32 tooth chainring. If you plan on using the big diameter 4.6+ tires its going to be tough getting up hills.

How is the delivery time? Last I heard Q2 had the 17 inch frames in stock but the 19's hadn't shown up yet.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Bnystrom said:


> Does anyone here have one of the Yishunbike framesets? I'm considering one.
> 
> View attachment 949858
> 
> ...


i have seen that frame built up on facebook fat bike page, couple of day ago.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*More on the Chao Yang tires*

This appears to be the same tire:

Tyre Fat Bike 26x4.90'' Snow foldable black CHAOYANG Tyres, Fat Bike Tires









It's somewhat hefty at 1520 grams and has a 60tpi casing, but that's to be expected for the price. They're touting it as a snow/mud tire, but it's not stud-able.


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## taikuri (Oct 22, 2012)

Started reading this thread yesterday and i have to thank you guys from all the information, been very interesting to read, but it has become very expansive to me... I'm sure you know what i mean, no longer i can resist Fatbikes, want to build one for me.

Those who have ordered Dengfu FM190 frame and plan to use it with Bluto, which model you chose, 100mm or 120mm Bluto ?


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## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

Waiting for my FB02 w/ 190mm rear spacing....what are some hub options other than turnagain, I9 or hope fatsno? Or is that it?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

sarma as well as jade hubs have caps for 190 spacing


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## mark439 (Jun 29, 2004)

Thank you to everyone for all of the information in this thread. It sounds as though the FM190 is the safest bet for big tires and no frame issues....now where to buy it? I have emailed Dengfu directly a few times with no response. I see velocarbon has them on ebay but the price seems a little higher than others have paid.


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## Pivvay (Aug 19, 2004)

I get a reply from Wendy at this email within a day usually. I'm about to order my frameset. <[email protected]>


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## mark439 (Jun 29, 2004)

Thanks...the address I had from the website was missing the "vip"


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

The FM079 I posted above is a "standard" 197mm rear thru-axle - not a funky compromise - and they sell it in the package above with 4.9" tires (on 85mm rims), so they obviously fit. The price on the package is pretty hard to beat and you can leave out parts you don't need (such as if you prefer different tires or don't need a crank). Speaking of the crank, the one in the picture appears to be an E.13 XCX+, not a TRS, but I'm waiting on clarification on that.

I recently built a pair of wheels with their rims for my girlfriend, which is why I'm now considering the frameset and wheels for myself.

If you're interested, you can reach the person I've been speaking with (Vivian) at: 
[email protected]


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

2 full weeks have come and gone and still waiting for my DF fm190 frame and fork to ship. Just thought I'd pass along the (lack of) update.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

*Iplay 2015 carbon fat bike wheels*

We can assemble 2015 carbon fat bike wheels with Bitex hubs and Novatec hubs now.

Here are some pictures for reference:














BSS FR80C details: 2015 BSS FR80C carbon 26er fat bike wheels, BSS carbon tubeless 26er fat bike wheels-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
NSS FR80C details: 2015 NSS FR80C carbon 26er fat bike wheels, NSS carbon tubeless 26er fat bike wheels-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


----------



## christianr (Jul 21, 2014)

Bnystrom said:


> Does anyone here have one of the Yishunbike framesets? I'm considering one.
> 
> View attachment 949858
> 
> ...


Hi all,
I'm Christian from YishunBike, I'm based in Europe to improve service of all area and also keep an eye on USA and America.
For any question, orders and so on please contact me writing to christian*AT*yishunbike.com

We've been surprised by the success of this frame and want to share some information here below you may find useful:

Actually this frame is sold out, we collected many orders and next stock forecast is for the 2nd week of January, but most of them are already booked.

Carbon wheels and rims are currently in stock with Schrader valve hole, Presta one is sold out and new stock forecast is again 2nd week of January.

Alloy wheels are currently sold out, new stock still TBD.

I'm here to answer any technical question also.
Thanks,
Chris


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

revelcru said:


> 2 full weeks have come and gone and still waiting for my DF fm190 frame and fork to ship. Just thought I'd pass along the (lack of) update.


mine took almost 4 weeks to ship.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

PeterQ520 said:


> We can assemble 2015 carbon fat bike wheels with Bitex hubs and Novatec hubs now.
> 
> Here are some pictures for reference:
> View attachment 951293
> ...


I recieved similar 90mm carbon rims from Icanbikes.com. This morning I set them up tubeless with two rounds of gaffatape covering the spoke holes, Stans tubeless valve, Dillinger 5 and 160ml Caffelatex. They have been at 10 psi for many hours now. Does this procedure sound ok?


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

*crank spacer placement*

I just mounted the raceface turbine crank. I suspect I should have placed one of those 10mm spacer rings, now both on the drive side, on eather side?


----------



## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

kmjelle said:


> I recieved similar 90mm carbon rims from Icanbikes.com. This morning I set them up tubeless with two rounds of gaffatape covering the spoke holes, Stans tubeless valve, Dillinger 5 and 160ml Caffelatex. They have been at 10 psi for many hours now. Does this procedure sound ok?


The ican rims are similar to (same as) the light bike rims, and have a flat surface on the hub side. These rims pictured here are different with the slight raise at the spokes. Your procedure sounds good... I set my ican rims up with d5 tires without any issues.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

kmjelle said:


> I just mounted the raceface turbine crank. I suspect I should have placed one of those 10mm spacer rings, now both on the drive side, on eather side?
> View attachment 951409


Sweet merciful crap.
If you have to ask....you should probably not be doing this.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Sweet merciful crap.
> If you have to ask....you should probably not be doing this.


So, you were just born knowing how to do everything and never have to ask questions?


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> So, you were just born knowing how to do everything and never have to ask questions?


No, but what he's saying is that if you take on projects like this you better already have some kind of skills and knowledge.
If you don't, get a bike and help from your lbs on the first go-round to get some knowledge.
In the least, if you do take on a project like this and are going to rely on pestering people on message boards about even the simplest procedure, expect a little derision.
To answer the question and end the issue:
Yes. Use the spacers on each side. Use two on one side only if your hips are offset 20mm.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> So, you were just born knowing how to do everything and never have to ask questions?


No...but I was born smart enough to be able to look at something and say " Crap...I screwed that up" without having to take a picture of it and ask the whole world wide web.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

tfinator said:


> No, but what he's saying is that if you take on projects like this you better already have some kind of skills and knowledge.
> If you don't, get a bike and help from your lbs on the first go-round to get some knowledge.
> In the least, if you do take on a project like this and are going to rely on pestering people on message boards about even the simplest procedure, expect a little derision.
> To answer the question and end the issue:
> Yes. Use the spacers on each side. Use two on one side only if your hips are offset 20mm.





the mayor said:


> No...but I was born smart enough to be able to look at something and say " Crap...I screwed that up" without having to take a picture of it and ask the whole world wide web.


Well, I'm glad you guys are so righteous and b-i-t-c-hen. This forum is here, primarily for people to learn and ask questions. The fact that he is learning, by making mistakes means he will never forget how to do it.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Well, I'm glad you guys are so righteous and b-i-t-c-hen. This forum is here, primarily for people to learn and ask questions. The fact that he is learning, by making mistakes means he will never forget how to do it.


You can't seriously be taking up the torch for a guy who's ordering a bunch of loose parts from Chinese manufacturers and doesn't even know how to put spacers on a crank. 
Sure it was sarcastic, but sometimes we gotta have a little fun at the expense of newbs. If you can't do it on the internet when can you?
Keep in mind in your reply I'm the one who actually answered the question (you never did) - as snarky as I was...


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

tfinator said:


> You can't seriously be taking up the torch for a guy who's ordering a bunch of loose parts from Chinese manufacturers and doesn't even know how to put spacers on a crank.
> Sure it was sarcastic, but sometimes we gotta have a little fun at the expense of newbs. If you can't do it on the internet when can you?
> Keep in mind in your reply I'm the one who actually answered the question (you never did) - as snarky as I was...


Oh, now it's sarcasim? If you have a problem with, "a guy ordering a bunch of loose parts from Chinese manufacturers", you probably should not be involved in this thread. At least the guy is trying. He'll get it right, by asking questions when he needs to.


----------



## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Without mentioning names; interesting replies. I hope you dont work as a teacher, like me, or with people in general. 

This is my first time assembling a bottom bracket and a crank. The reason I placed both spacers on the drive side, was the problem of the chain rubbing against the tire, that people over and over ask about. And manufacturers publish which combination of products that works together. I realized just as I finished mounting, that the chain line would be a bit wrong. Just wanted a confirmation before I corrected spacer placement.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Don't sweat it, kmjelle. This forum is literally filled with knowledge and very helpful MTB'ers. Everyone makes mistakes. Yours was the kind of mistake we'd all have fun busting the balls of our friends about over a beer or seven. Personally, I think they could have still poked a little fun without the condescension and while still answering the question, but hey to each their own.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

I am not too bothered. This is a discussion forum. What would a discussion be without questions? There will always be someone that percieves YOUR question trivial or stupid. I am a happy builder, learning as I go along. 

Really happy with how the tubeless wheels came along. Scary sound as the tire seated against the inside edge of the rim, using my air compressor. The fit is extremely thight, much more so than regular 29er mtb tires I have set up tubeless.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

kmjelle said:


> Without mentioning names; interesting replies. I hope you dont work as a teacher, like me, or with people in general.


It's funny because I do.

I didn't really have a problem with your post, although if you look at your picture, the chain wouldn't even hit the cassette in that form- so I think just trying to put spacers on either side instead of going straight to the internet is more prudent.
You'll learn more like that, too!

I was more interested in defending our right to make snarky and funny comments. If you can't do that anymore then the internet is dead.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Talk to people on the www, like you would face to face. Those spacers are not mentioned at all in the installation guide provided by raceface.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

kmjelle said:


> I just mounted the raceface turbine crank. I suspect I should have placed one of those 10mm spacer rings, now both on the drive side, on eather side?
> View attachment 951409


Easy way to look at is this, you want the crank arms on both sides to be an equal distance, or as close to equal as possible, from the chainstays.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

This guy could teach you a thing or two....


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

kmjelle said:


> Talk to people on the www, like you would face to face. Those spacers are not mentioned at all in the installation guide provided by raceface.


I'm sarcastic in real life.

But in all honesty, you should do more trial and error.
If you're a teacher then you can appreciate that the real way to learn is trial and error, and using some experimentation. Build the bike- you'll quickly see why 10mm each side are needed instead of 20mm on just one. I'm guessing your knees would tell you too if you got that far
You'll learn a lot more than just asking for regurgitated information every time you hit a hiccup.


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

hi guys, i ordered IP-N019 from XMIPlay. Paul from XMIPlay said that the BB width is 100mm and the Rear spacing is 197mm with Thru-Axle. 

Any advise what Crank and BB i can use for 197mm rear spacing?


----------



## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

*The fatbike build so far*









There is not complete rear tire clearence wit Dillinger 5 tubeless (4,8"). A 2mm ring spacer placed at the non drive side of the rear hub slightly helped. But I had to remove 7 spikes and cut away the outer row of rubber knobs. Any other solution to the problem, besides a narrower tire? I tried to change tire pressure, but there was no significant difference in tire width.









Weight stopped at 11.22kg completely finished. It is obviously not complete in the pic above.

The chain clears the tire with about half an inch in the lowest gear.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

For my riding area and conditions, even the removal of those knobs wouldn't be enough. The tire would clear when clean but mud clearance would be a problem. It would grind the frame with mud and rocks. 

Hate to say it but that frame looks better suited to 3.8" tires on 65 or 80mm rims. Hopefully mud or snow clearance isn't an issue where you ride. Let us know how it works out.

Edit: you could try switching front and back tires. Sometimes there is manufacturing variance and slight differences between tires. One might be slightly smaller than the other.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

dfiler said:


> Hate to say it but that frame looks better suited to 3.8" tires on 65 or 80mm rims. Hopefully mud or snow clearance isn't an issue where you ride. Let us know how it works out.
> 
> Edit: you could try switching front and back tires. Sometimes there is manufacturing variance and slight differences between tires. One might be slightly smaller than the other.


I originally ordered 65mm rims, but the chineese suddenly could not deliver those, and "kindly" and for free replaced them with more expensive 90mm ones. I was told the frame could fit 4.8 tires. I already had the Dillinger 5 laying around, so what can one do... My plan is to run Jumbo Jims 4.0" once the are released.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

In my opinion 4" tires are too squared off on 90mm rims. Some people aren't bothered but it though. For me, hard cornering gets unpredictable when tires are squared off on too wide of rims. Tires with knobs wrapped further down onto the sidewalls help a bit in that situation.


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## No_Roads (Oct 27, 2012)

*DengFu FM190*

DengFu FM190 frame/fork with Nextie Wild Dragons, RaceFace Next SL Cranks (170 spaced), hope hubs, XTR 1x10 with Wolftooth 40t cog, TRP Spyke Brakes. I don't have a weight, but I'd guess around 26. Its light as a feather compared to my Moonlander  Proper stem and post await me figuring out the fit I want on it.

Next stop Tuscobia.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Looking nice. So no problem with spindle designed for 170mm rear hub, on a 190mm frame? I am thinking of vchanging to a 170 spindle, to reduce QF.


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## Pivvay (Aug 19, 2004)

Can you please post a picture of the non drive crank arm next to the frame? I will love you forever.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

On the Icanbikes.com SN03 fatbike frame, 190 rear hub and 190 raceface turbine spindle, it looks like this. 15mm space.


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## Pivvay (Aug 19, 2004)

Haha thanks I meant no roads with his dengfu


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

could anyone with headset from dengfu for fm190 chime in? the fork sort of wobbles in head tube with everything tightened properly. i am wandering if i have all the headset parts. here is what i got, from bottom up. crown race, bearing, headtube, bearing, some sort of ring, top cap piece. i also have expansion nut from them.
looks like the wobble is on the bottom, i checked the bearing and it fits tight, i am wandering if i am missing some sort of thin washer there? i tightened everything up after my todays ride, no wobble, just worried it will start wobbling on me again.

and here is the image of my build:


post img


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

If the bearing is a snug fit in the frame, the contact between the bearing and the crown race is the only possible source of movement at the bottom. Are you sure that the crown race is properly seated on the fork? Is the bearing oriented with the tapered side down?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

tapered side down for bottom bearing? i have it installed with tapered side up as the contact surface in headtube is also tapered and it fits right in? should i flip it?


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

never heard of taper side down. sounds silly, but you never said anything about cups.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

no cups with drop in berings


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## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

Maybe crown race wasn't fully set on the fork until you put some weight on it?


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Both my Chinese 29er and Fatbike headsets loosened a little on the first couple rides. Seems like they had to "settle" in a bit. Been fine ever since.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

brankulo said:


> tapered side down for bottom bearing? i have it installed with tapered side up as the contact surface in headtube is also tapered and it fits right in? should i flip it?


Sorry about that, I should have been more specific. The side with the _internal_ taper that mates with the crown race should be facing downward. The _external _taper should face upward.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

all right, thanks guys, i tightened everything up and will see what happens during next ride.


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## WesternMD (Jan 25, 2005)

brankulo said:


> could anyone with headset from dengfu for fm190 chime in? the fork sort of wobbles in head tube with everything tightened properly. i am wandering if i have all the headset parts. here is what i got, from bottom up. crown race, bearing, headtube, bearing, some sort of ring, top cap piece. i also have expansion nut from them.
> looks like the wobble is on the bottom, i checked the bearing and it fits tight, i am wandering if i am missing some sort of thin washer there? i tightened everything up after my todays ride, no wobble, just worried it will start wobbling on me again.
> 
> and here is the image of my build:
> ...


Is this "some sort of ring" the tapered wedge that slides down the steerer and acts like the crown race at the bottom? On some headsets flat shim washers need to be added between this wedge top and the top assembly to allow enough compression without the top cap contacting the upper edge of the head tube. It would not be abnormal to have make an adjustment after an initial ride. One other source of slip causing it to loosed during a ride would be the interface between the carbon steerer tube and stem.  Might need a little carbon paste if it does not hold after readjusting your preload tension.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i think it is called retaining ring, it sits on top of upper bearing, i am pretty sure i have it where it belongs. i also used carbon paste between steerer tube and stem. again, it seems there is no wobble now, i might have jut not had it tight enough the first time.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

kmjelle said:


> View attachment 951909
> 
> On the Icanbikes.com SN03 fatbike frame, 190 rear hub and 190 raceface turbine spindle, it looks like this. 15mm space.


Looks like you could have got away with the RF spindle for 170mm rear... in otherwords, no 10mm spacer on each side, bringing your Q in by 20mm.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

I know. I have considered changing, but the shorter spindle cost about $100 incl sbipping to Norway. Send me a pm if you want to make an exchange. Really happy with the bike, though.


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Looks nice. I really like the fork.



kmjelle said:


> I know. I have considered changing, but the shorter spindle cost about $100 incl sbipping to Norway. Send me a pm if you want to make an exchange. Really happy with the bike, though.
> View attachment 952313


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

Bnystrom said:


> Does anyone here have one of the Yishunbike framesets? I'm considering one.
> 
> View attachment 949858
> 
> ...


Can't wait to see the first build of this frame, it's the sexiest of them all. 
If the review is positive I'm going for one.


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## Johnny_T (May 29, 2004)

*Help me make a decision*

I am ready to pull a trigger on Carbon frame/forks and wheels. I am leaning toward the 2015 Iplay N019. This thread has gotten so long I haven't been able to read all the posts. Are there any problems with the Iplay? Sounds like people are happy with the Dengfu, but it doesn't have a thru axel in the rear, does it?

Any tips on ordering/paying for these frames, it sounds like everybody has stories about it.

Thanks for your help.


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## Pivvay (Aug 19, 2004)

The new dengfu is supposed to be thru axle front and rear.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Johnny_T said:


> I am ready to pull a trigger on Carbon frame/forks and wheels. I am leaning toward the 2015 Iplay N019. This thread has gotten so long I haven't been able to read all the posts. Are there any problems with the Iplay? Sounds like people are happy with the Dengfu, but it doesn't have a thru axel in the rear, does it?
> 
> Any tips on ordering/paying for these frames, it sounds like everybody has stories about it.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


yup, thru axles front/back, just make sure you ask for it as it also comes with qr


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## No_Roads (Oct 27, 2012)

Pivvay said:


> Can you please post a picture of the non drive crank arm next to the frame? I will love you forever.


Its close. This pic is not quite a perfect angle but I would say about 2mm, maybe 2.5 with the crank boot on. Still, I'm 205 decked out for winter and even getting up on and hammering its never touched.


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi guys, just pulled the trigger and ordered an ip-019 frame from iplay. Anybody run a lefty on it before? Will there be any issues? Any links on where to get a lefty fork?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

just to follow up with my issue of wobbly steerer. after my first ride i took everything apart, put it back together, tightened everything up and all seems good. did ride yesterday with no issues.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

Now we have both sizes 17''/19'' for IP-010 for both 170x12 and 190x12 in UD matt in stock, and all sizes 16''/18''/20'' for IP-018 in UD matt in stock as well

http://www.xmiplay.com/Product312

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

peter, has IP-010 rear clearance been revised? the website still says it fits 4.8" tires, but unless it has been revised it does not.


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

Depends on the rim 4.8 is mounted on. I use 65mm rim and D5 on ip-010 and it works fine.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

right, but its deceiving


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

D5 is not even close to 4.8" A true 4.8 will not fit this frame.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

A D5 is 4.3" on an 80mm rim if I remember correctly.


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## SilverBullet (Dec 5, 2008)

I just ordered a DengFu frame that landed yesterday. 19" - 19 frame with a 197 x 12 rear thru axle. I have some 100mm carbon wheels on the way. Hoping that a 4.8 fits on the bike. Frame looks great.


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

They should say *for tire clearence check mtbr.com constantly*


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Which frame did you get?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

SilverBullet said:


> I just ordered a DengFu frame that landed yesterday. 19" - 19 frame with a 197 x 12 rear thru axle. I have some 100mm carbon wheels on the way. Hoping that a 4.8 fits on the bike. Frame looks great.


Same as mine, I can guarantee you that a 4.8" bud will fit on 90mm rims no worries, even room left to fit a 4.8 on 100's.


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## dcrowe (Oct 9, 2009)

Running a DF 190 with QR with Bud on a ClownShoe (100) with plenty of clearance. It's a nice riding frame. Could do with a slacker front end and shorter stays but at this stage in fatbike evolution I am calling it good. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

*Here it is*







want to thank all and especially brankulo for your input and advice from the forum.




















todays 1st trail ride , couldn't stop smiling even with temp of 15


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

Sweet pics bertdog! Looks like you're enjoying. 
My bike has landed. Hopefully wheels will next week.


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## Bertdog (Nov 17, 2014)

thanks , good luck . these bikes are nothing but fun .


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I built a SN01 for one of my best customers recently. This one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=141383005535&view=all&tid=1049027173004

Her main justification for replacing her old snowbike was to get clearance for a Lou out back. Where we (mostly) ride, Lou is desirable and often mandatory. So she sold her old bike and had me build this frame.

And, on a 90mm rim, Lou simply does NOT fit. Because the season is already happening I just relaced her rear wheel with a 65mm rim and, for now, that's good enough. But because we're running it tubeless, the casing keeps growing and sometime soon I'll have to snip the edge knobs to keep them from burning a hole in the frame.

I've contacted the ebay seller for some sort of redress. Doubtful they'll do anything for her, but I hope at minimum they'll change their listing to read 'clearance for 4.7"' instead of the current misleading 4.8".

Anyone know an easy online source for a der hanger for this frame?

Thanks,

MC


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## Johnny_T (May 29, 2004)

*FM 190 on the way*

I have an FM 190 on the way with 80mm carbon wheels. I am trying to get parts lined up so I can build it quickly when it shows up. I had a couple of questions:
What size seatpost clamp does it take? Does the frame come with one?
I bought the $14 headset from DengFu but has anybody replaced it with a quality headset? Which one did you use? What style headset does it take?

Thanks.


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

The seatpost is 31.6, using stock clamp for now. Don't know about replacement headsets.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

You get the seat clamp with the frame without asking for it, the outside diameter is 36.9mm, so thats the measurement you need when ordering a new one. I fitted a carbocage clamp to mine as the stock one is a large hunk of alu, not the most pleasing to the eye... but at least you get something to get you moving.

The headset is an integrated tapered, Cane Creek makes several that will fit as do a few other manufacturers, personally I wouldn't be running out to replace it immediately as an integrated headset is basically 2 bearings, a compression ring and a top cap. The stock supplied headset seems fine... so far.


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## bikeguy0 (Aug 5, 2007)

Johnny_T said:


> I have an FM 190 on the way with 80mm carbon wheels. I am trying to get parts lined up so I can build it quickly when it shows up. I had a couple of questions:
> What size seatpost clamp does it take? Does the frame come with one?
> I bought the $14 headset from DengFu but has anybody replaced it with a quality headset? Which one did you use? What style headset does it take?
> 
> Thanks.


How much did they charge you for shipping? We are looking at ordering 4 framesets and wheels and the shipping seemed way high at 160 per 80 per frame and 80 per wheelset.


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## nomis819 (Jan 5, 2015)

Nice Bike!!
Sorry but I have a couple question!!!
What are the size of your bike and your rim, is it the Dengfu rim?
Did you past the brake cable inside the frame (it's hard to see)
Did you get the QR or the thru axle version and what are the size of your hub 190 or 197??
Did you use a 170 or 190 spindle on your crank?
And to finish is it possible to post more close picture of the tire clearence??
I'm looking for this bike too, That's why im asking.
Thank's


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

*Turbine cinch question*

My turbine cinch crank arms came in tdy from Amazon. Besides the bb and the chainring, do I miss out anything else. Pretty basic stuff..

Gonna use this on my iplay 019 frame.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

I have the same crankset. What are the two shiny rings in the bag for? I didnt use them.


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## Johnny_T (May 29, 2004)

ozzybmx said:


> You get the seat clamp with the frame without asking for it, the outside diameter is 36.9mm, so thats the measurement you need when ordering a new one. I fitted a carbocage clamp to mine as the stock one is a large hunk of alu, not the most pleasing to the eye... but at least you get something to get you moving.
> 
> The headset is an integrated tapered, Cane Creek makes several that will fit as do a few other manufacturers, personally I wouldn't be running out to replace it immediately as an integrated headset is basically 2 bearings, a compression ring and a top cap. The stock supplied headset seems fine... so far.


Thanks Ozzy, sounds like I will be good to go.


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

kmjelle said:


> I have the same crankset. What are the two shiny rings in the bag for? I didnt use them.


They should be placed between crank and pedal


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

spaniardclimber said:


> They should be placed between crank and pedal


They help to prevent the pedal from seizing to the crank. Definitely use them.


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Pedal washers. Most people that have nice pedals do not use them. It is advised to use them with low cost pedals that have a square flange so you do not scar up the cranks.



kmjelle said:


> I have the same crankset. What are the two shiny rings in the bag for? I didnt use them.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Bnystrom said:


> They help to prevent the pedal from seizing to the crank. Definitely use them.


This is not what they are for



shoo said:


> so you do not scar up the cranks.


This is why. And the fact that where the pedal will contact the crank is inset slightly. Usually they only come with carbon cranks. Most Aluminum cranks don't use them. XTR does not come with them and none of my previous Turbine cranks included them. Unless your pedal will contact the crank outside the recessed part, you really don't need them.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

mucky said:


> Usually they only come with carbon cranks. Most Aluminum cranks don't use them.


my slx and x9 cranks came with washers


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

I had X9 cranks that did not have them. I have an XTR M980 and M985 that both did not come with washers. 3 sets of Turbine cranks that did not have washers. An XT M780 and an LX crank that both did not have washers. I had an Ultegra 6000 and 105 cranks that did not come with washers. I had Kooka cranks that did not come with washers. My daughter has Sram S600 with no pedal washers. The only cranks I ever had that came with washers were FSA carbon cranks( road and MTB), Race Face Next cranks, and Easton EC90 cranks. I'm not saying that all aluminum cranks don't include washers, since the new Turbines do. But I have had nearly every aluminum crank from the major manufacturers, and none of them had pedal washers.

Anyway, I would prefer to keep this thread on topic, so no more pedal washer talk from me.


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## MomentumBarracuda (Jan 3, 2015)

Hi Joezuri, Did you get your 019 frame yet from IPlay? I am waiting to receive mine form Peter that are supposed to ship in the next 7 days. Have not seen much activity on others that have ordered this new frame or have it in their hands. Comments on the bike?


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

MomentumBarracuda said:


> Hi Joezuri, Did you get your 019 frame yet from IPlay? I am waiting to receive mine form Peter that are supposed to ship in the next 7 days. Have not seen much activity on others that have ordered this new frame or have it in their hands. Comments on the bike?


Yes.. Mine is still in production according to Bert, will be ready ard 20th of this mth. I have yet to receive any news too since my last email with them around last week.

Btw anybody happen to know the headset Id of this frame? Top 44 bottom 56? I need to order the headset. Gonna run a Dnm inverted fork and will need a reducer bottom set.


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## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

anyone have troubl with bb7 brakes on ican frame


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

I guess I'll find out. What kind of trouble?


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## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

the cable bolt is under frame had to tighten with vice grip because wrench cant fit


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## robertbbr (Apr 18, 2006)

Hey guys-
Great builds on the bikes! I am building up an XMIplay No19, with a 197mm*12mm thru axle for an article on Pinkbike.

Here's a sample of my stuff- Interview: Tyson Swasey and the Rise of Ahab - Pinkbike

I have been following your thread and I really am in awe of your pioneering spirits. Maybe you can all give a bit of advice

I am going to grab a set of Race Face Turbine Cinch. Should I take the 190 or 170mm spacing. It looks like the 190 gives too big of a q-factor. I just don't want to take the wrong ones!

Also I am planning on a 26tooth dm ring. What kind of BB do I need to grab? Anything else I need.

Thanks in advance!
Rob


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## dcrowe (Oct 9, 2009)

I have an FM190 with turbine cinch 170 spindle and 26t ring flipped, shifting with xx1 in back. Chainline is excellent and there is sufficient clearance to chain stays. I used the 68/73 bb and chucked the tube that 'seals' the bearings from inside. 

Looking forward to some fat content on PB your piece on Ahab was excellent. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

bnelson said:


> the cable bolt is under frame had to tighten with vice grip because wrench cant fit


I see now. With an extra hand, you can rotate the lever forward and get an allen wrench on the bolt. Replacing the bolt with a hex head would be better though.


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

robertbbr said:


> Hey guys-
> Great builds on the bikes! I am building up an XMIplay No19, with a 197mm*12mm thru axle for an article on Pinkbike.
> 
> Here's a sample of my stuff- Interview: Tyson Swasey and the Rise of Ahab - Pinkbike
> ...


Hi Rob, like you I'm gonna build up the ip019, i got the 190 turbine cinch spindle, as the frame is designed to use 190 rear end. I know the fm 190 from dengfu should be able to run 170 with the arms clearing the chain stays. For the ip190 I'm not sure.

I would definitely go with 170spindle on the ip if it fits. I'm gonna use 4.0 tyre with 65mm rims so tyre clearance won't be an issue.


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## MomentumBarracuda (Jan 3, 2015)

Robert,

Do you have an ETA for your frame from China? I'd like to know what others are getting from Iplay as a shipping status. Thanks.


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## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

that is what i was reffering to


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Has anyone tried a 29plus setup on an IP-010? Rear clearance looks tight.


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

Yup. It will be just fine. I put my Jones' front wheel to the back of my ip010 just to see rear clearence and it fits fine with some mud space left.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

simen said:


> Yup. It will be just fine. I put my Jones' front wheel to the back of my ip010 just to see rear clearence and it fits fine with some mud space left.


Thanks. What tire?


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## Traktor (Oct 18, 2004)

I really like the look of the IP010 but I gather that it does not fit 4.8 inch tires.

What is the appeal of a 190 spaced frame that does not fit the big rubber? Why not buy a 170 frame if you don't want to run bigger than 4.0?


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## valexe (Nov 29, 2012)

*SN01 and Lou*

I can confirm that a Lou on a 90mm rim (tubeless at 9 psi) goes in a SN01. It's a tight fit, but it's a fit !


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## robertbbr (Apr 18, 2006)

joezuri said:


> Hi Rob, like you I'm gonna build up the ip019, i got the 190 turbine cinch spindle, as the frame is designed to use 190 rear end. I know the fm 190 from dengfu should be able to run 170 with the arms clearing the chain stays. For the ip190 I'm not sure.
> 
> I would definitely go with 170spindle on the ip if it fits. I'm gonna use 4.0 tyre with 65mm rims so tyre clearance won't be an issue.


I think I'm going to play it safe and order the 190 spindle. It looks like the ip10 is a really tight fit at 170. It'd be great to reduce the cowboy style q-factor but I can't risk it. I plan to use 80mm rims and 4.8's


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## robertbbr (Apr 18, 2006)

I think about a week


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

Knard on Rabbit hole.


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

Anybody with the IP 019 knows the headset ID? bert emailed me the frame is using integrated headsets. Can somebody comfirm this?


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

robertbbr said:


> I think I'm going to play it safe and order the 190 spindle. It looks like the ip10 is a really tight fit at 170. It'd be great to reduce the cowboy style q-factor but I can't risk it. I plan to use 80mm rims and 4.8's


Well I was thinking, when the frame comes in I'm gonna test the clearance wout using the 10mm spacers first. If it clears I'm getting the 170mm spindle kit and sell off the 190mm.


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## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

the IP 018 can run bud/lou on 80 mm rims


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## muddyjohn (Jan 13, 2015)

Hi I am thinking of doing a build with a chineese frame and Blutos.

Whats the pros and cons of the IP-018 vs IP-019 that many seem to use on this thread? What are they charging for frames - the website does not seem to mention this? Any other alternatives worth considering?

Thanks from a fatty-newbie.


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## Greggory85 (Jan 13, 2015)

Hello!

I am interested in building one of these bikes for bike camping? I'm kinda small (5'7 130 pounds) and would be putting 30 pounds on the frame - could these frames handle it?

What frame would y'all recommend and can it fit a bluto!

Thanks! (I have read most of this thread...I can't recall if bike camping was mentioned)


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## nomis819 (Jan 5, 2015)

constantijn13 said:


> the IP 018 can run bud/lou on 80 mm rims


Do you think the bike can run this tire on 100mm rims? is it tight on 80mm?

If you have a pic.....

Thank's


----------



## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

All first batch orders for IP-N019 fat bike frames can be shipped out before next Monday, some could be shipped out on this Friday.

Here are some pictures of our IP-010 complete bike, we can assemble IP-N019 complete bike with same combinations as well:
Frame: IP-010 19'' BSA UD matt for 190x12 (IP-N019 frame for 197x12)
Fork: FK-019 UD matt for 150x15
Wheels: NSS FR80C (32/32H) UD matt, Novatec D201/D202 hubs for 150x15 front 190x12 rear/ 197x12 rear, Sapim RACE spokes, Sapim nipples
Tires: ChaoYang 4.0''
Crankset: RACEFACE single
Group: SHimano XT brakes and derailleurs
Headset: FSA headset
Handlebar: IP-B04
Seat post: IP-SP6
Stem: IP-ST1
Weight: 13,5 kg for below IP-010 complete bike

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

What does the complete bike cost? Looks sick!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

you ran the front brake line wrong....never run the line on the out side of the for leg, it gets smacked and you have no front brake.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

MUSTCLIME said:


> you ran the front brake line wrong....never run the line on the out side of the for leg, it gets smacked and you have no front brake.


We intended to run the front brake line out side because the customer doesn't need the carbon fork, he bought a suspension fork and took all rest parts from us. So we didn't have to run the brake line inside the fork leg, we just wanted to build an almost complete bike to take pictures. Thanks for your reminding.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

muddyjohn said:


> Hi I am thinking of doing a build with a chineese frame and Blutos.
> 
> Whats the pros and cons of the IP-018 vs IP-019 that many seem to use on this thread? What are they charging for frames - the website does not seem to mention this? Any other alternatives worth considering?
> 
> Thanks from a fatty-newbie.


just be careful with max tire sizes they list. if you plan to run big tires dont even think of ip-010. ip-018 clearance is quite tight with full size tires on 90mm rims according to images posted. i dont think we have seen ip-019 built up yet. i would say right now the only safe bet is dengfu frame. if you plan to run skinnier tires you should be fine with any of them.


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## Greggory85 (Jan 13, 2015)

Anybody check out the sn03 frame yet? I'm leaning towards that one over the sn01...pretty new to fat bikes, just want to run 4.8's


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

that frame is not going to fit large tires.


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## BonesNis (May 23, 2006)

Not sure why you would state that this frame will not fit large tires. My Fatboy rear is 190mm and it has lots of room with the stock 4.6 tires.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

I have sn03 from icanbikes. 190mm. Dillinger 5 does rub ever so slightly against the chainstays, with my 90mm rims. Measured width is about 11.5cm 4.3". I have had to cut away two rows of rubber knobs on the tire, to make it rideable.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

All thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs.


----------



## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

just opened the box with my carbon frame. found frame finished chipped near where the chainstay hits the BB (non drive side). would you accept this frame or would you ask for a different one? i have sent email to seller already about getting a different frame, but I am trying to gauge from you guys if you would do the same, or just live with it.

it looks like it's just a chip in the finish, but how am I to know if this will become structural with repeated wetting and drying.


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## BonesNis (May 23, 2006)

Which company?

I know it will be a hassle, but I wouldn't accept that frame and would do all I can to send it back.


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

Completely unacceptable.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

BonesNis said:


> Not sure why you would state that this frame will not fit large tires. My Fatboy rear is 190mm and it has lots of room with the stock 4.6 tires.


your fatboy is 197mm i believe but it does not really matter. what matters is that this frame has oddly shaped yoke that does not allow for big tires. there are handful of people with this frame if you search back this thread


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

patience is a skill, perfect it. send that mofo back and grow a bonsai while you wait.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

tschewy said:


> just opened the box with my carbon frame. found frame finished chipped near where the chainstay hits the BB (non drive side). would you accept this frame or would you ask for a different one? i have sent email to seller already about getting a different frame, but I am trying to gauge from you guys if you would do the same, or just live with it.
> 
> it looks like it's just a chip in the finish, but how am I to know if this will become structural with repeated wetting and drying.


thats dengfu right? mine came pretty much completely wrapped to prevent this kind of damage from other contents of the box. anyways, if there are no additional expenses involved and you dont mind waiting another couple of weeks go for it. otherwise, from the image it looks cosmetic, looks like there is no depth to the chip. just touch it up and soon you wont even think about it. dont really think this will cause any structural issues, my main full sus carbon bike has deep dents and scratches all over the stays from crashes, i have been told that the walls are pretty thick in these areas.


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## robertbbr (Apr 18, 2006)

joezuri said:


> Anybody with the IP 019 knows the headset ID? bert emailed me the frame is using integrated headsets. Can somebody comfirm this?


FSA 42. You can order them from XMIplay for cheap


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks for all you're input. I'll continue to try to get the seller to send me a different frame. No response yet from them, but it's only been ~6 hrs so far. I'll update the status when a resolution is reached.

The box was in mint condition and the frame was well packaged. The damage was under a sheet of foam wrapping... which I interpret to mean this wasn't seen in QC, or wasn't deemed an issue in QC.

I'm being as patient as I can! I ordered 11/16, waited a month for them to ship, only to have the frame arrive the day after I left town for 3 weeks. Winter will be over by the time I have a bike at this rate!


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## ciscolangot (Nov 24, 2009)

*caught the fat bug*

Thanks to JonL for answering some of my questions. I pulled the trigger and bought the xmiplay ip-018 frame and 019fork.









I am planning to get some nextie rims and I was wondering if hope Fatsno hubs are convertible, meaning:

- if I order 9 x 135qr front, is it convertible to 15 x 150?
- if I order 10 x 190qr rear, is it convertible to 12 x 197?

The reason that I want the hubs to be convertible is because I own a Spez fatboy expert and I want to swap the carbon wheels out just by changing end caps. thanks!

my spez:


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Nice looking frame. 
Yes they are convertible. Hope makes a 135 FDS to 15 x150 conversion kit and you can get end caps for to convert a 190 QR to 197 12mm thru. The front is a little complicated but the back is a synch.



ciscolangot said:


> Thanks to JonL for answering some of my questions. I pulled the trigger and bought the xmiplay ip-018 frame and 019fork.
> 
> View attachment 955874
> 
> ...


----------



## ciscolangot (Nov 24, 2009)

shoo said:


> Nice looking frame.
> Yes they are convertible. Hope makes a 135 FDS to 15 x150 conversion kit and you can get end caps for to convert a 190 QR to 197 12mm thru. The front is a little complicated but the back is a synch.


thanks!!!


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

tschewy said:


> just opened the box with my carbon frame. found frame finished chipped near where the chainstay hits the BB (non drive side). would you accept this frame or would you ask for a different one? i have sent email to seller already about getting a different frame, but I am trying to gauge from you guys if you would do the same, or just live with it.
> 
> it looks like it's just a chip in the finish, but how am I to know if this will become structural with repeated wetting and drying.


Yeah I don't think I'd bother to wait another month for a replacement.. They look pretty superficial..


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

hiss2 said:


> Yeah I don't think I'd bother to wait another month for a replacement.. They look pretty superficial..


I don't know guys... seems to set a bad precedent for expected quality IMO. It's a tough call right? Trying to be patient, but wanting to get out there and enjoy winter. Obviously your call, but personally - I'd send it back.


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## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

19" speedercycling fb02 190mm frameset and my 65mm nextie rims! Waiting for jade cycles hubs, then to build wheels and it will be break-in time!


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Interesting, that looks like a Fatback Corvus frame and on their Facebook page the manufacturer has a picture of a 907 Whiteout.



jhmotard said:


> 19" speedercycling fb02 190mm frameset and my 65mm nextie rims! Waiting for jade cycles hubs, then to build wheels and it will be break-in time!


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## Jay_RigidRide (Aug 26, 2014)

You may find that they won't cover the postage, as you will probably have been advised to check the product prior to accepting the delivery. Also you need to consider any customs charges that you may have had to pay, you will have to pay these again if you did have any.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

I've been away for half a year and back to spend the day reading through this thread. Holy crap there is a lot of good info. I'm very interested in selling the Moony and building one of these carbon frames up.

Anyway... yikes. A lot to go through in this thread. I've figured there are about 3 main frame designs right now? Correct? I put the info below together to help wrap my mind around it, hopefully will help others too. It's the frame and then links to each vendor that carries it (that I could find). So now, the question is, which vendor is the lowest price?

Frame 1 - (smooth edges) - FB-010, SN01, IP-018, FM190








Frame 2 - (angled top) - FM079, FM-B079, SN02








Frame 3 - (sharp edges) - FB-012, SN03, IP-010, IP-N019


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

there are 3 more although 1 is not available anymore. two available are dengfu fm190 and xmiplay ipn019 which you have incorrectly listed with last frame


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

*XMIPlay - IP-N019*

my frame is on it's way....


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*I've been watching and waiting for this to sort itself out*

So far, here are the conclusions I've drawn:

If you're trying to sort through the available frames, I suggest that you should first weed out those that are 190mm _thru-axle_, as this is basically a mongrel size that's the result of a major design screw-up by some of these frame manufacturers. The standard sizes for rear thru-axles are 177mm and 197mm. For quick-release frames, they're 170mm and 190mm. Anything else is likely to be a headache.

Forks don't seem to be a problem, standards-wise, as they're all either 135mm or 150mm. However, you'll find some 135mm forks mated with 190/197mm frames, which could pose a problem depending on the size rim and tire you plan to run in the front. Looking at more mainstream commercial frames, the "standard" packages seem to be 135mm forks paired with 170/177mm frames, and 150mm forks paired with 190/197mm frames. The former are typically equipped with 4" (or slightly larger) tires on rims in the 65-85mm range. The latter can run tires up to 5" on rims in the 85-100mm range.

Since you've read this thread, you've seen that there are some of the 190/197mm Chinese frames that have issues with insufficient clearance for 5" tires, due to the shape of their chainstays at the bottom bracket junction. If you plan to run the widest possible rims and rubber, this is an important consideration.

The framesets you refer to as "angled top" seem to be pretty well sorted as far as frame and fork sizes, but I don't know if anyone here has actually built one up. I've been considering one, but haven't done it yet.

If you can manage to get the frameset that KHS and Framed are selling (as the "Four Season" and "Alaskan" respectively), that one is well-sorted too and arguably a prettier design. However, it may not be available for delivery to North America any longer due to the contracts with these manufacturers.

Hopefully, I've got all of this straight. The bottom line is that you have to review the specs carefully to make certain of exactly what you're getting. With any luck, some of the mongrel stuff will drop out soon and the market will become less sketchy.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

kmjelle said:


> View attachment 951909
> 
> On the Icanbikes.com SN03 fatbike frame, 190 rear hub and 190 raceface turbine spindle, it looks like this. 15mm space.


I just mounted the 170mm spindle on the Sn03 ICAN frame, with 190mm dropout. Still 5mm clearence between arms and chainstays. 1x10 setup. Also 5mm tire clearence in low gear.


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## christianr (Jul 21, 2014)

duggus said:


> I've been away for half a year and back to spend the day reading through this thread. Holy crap there is a lot of good info. I'm very interested in selling the Moony and building one of these carbon frames up.
> 
> Anyway... yikes. A lot to go through in this thread. I've figured there are about 3 main frame designs right now? Correct? I put the info below together to help wrap my mind around it, hopefully will help others too. It's the frame and then links to each vendor that carries it (that I could find). So now, the question is, which vendor is the lowest price?
> 
> ...


Frame 2 is available from us at YishunBike, just updated with 12x197 rear end.
You can get it as a semi-complete kit frame+fork+wheels+tires+crankset+axles (have a look few pages behind) or frame+fork or frame only.

Contact me to see the catalog or if you have any question.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

my dengfu build complete with decals


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

That is a nice/clean build brankulo


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

I bet you're a happy man right about now. Nice work brankulo. Sweet clear gloss decals (I think)... custom? 
So everything you'd hoped for?


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## nomis819 (Jan 5, 2015)

brankulo said:


> my dengfu build complete with decals


Hi Brankulo,

Very nice bike!!

I'm thinking to order a fm 190, but when I look de Dengfu site I see 2 lengh of fork, 490 and 510mm. What is the best lengh for fatbike?? Which one did you get?

And whit the Fm 190 what Hub lenght is suitable for the thru axle, not QR...... 190 or 197?? I'm confused!

Thank's


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

really happy with the bike. the geo is not perfect but good enough. i took it on really technical trail last week, lots of chunky stuff and combination of steeper ht and longish stays dont help, lots of body english required. not a big deal as i was always meaning to use it as my "snow bike" but i had to try. on the other hand, steeper ht makes it good climber and is quite stable in snow thanks to longer stays. also, if i ever end up getting another wheelset (650b 50mm nexties is the plan) i will be using it as my touring/ bikepacking bike in the summer. the main triangle is big one, suitable for good size frame bag.
decals are custom, had them made locally. look pretty good in person.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Brankulo how do you like the wheelset? Quality seem good? What did the complete weight end up at for your build?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

wheels are solid. nexties 90mm laced to chosen hubs. 26lbs as shown, only have cheap luggage scale so not terribly accurate. could be taken down to something over 25lbs if i didnt put as much sealant as i did.  or even lighter with more $$$.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Oh, I thought maybe they were the carbon rims from dengfu. I wonder how those hold up.


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Brankulo, if you don't mind, what was the total cost?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

duggus said:


> Frame 1 - (smooth edges) - FB-010, SN01, IP-018, FM190


Frame 1 looks same as sarma except it's for 190mm spacing instead 170mm


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

I'm still waiting for my DF wheels to complete the build. Those shipped over two weeks ago, but tracking info says they're still in China. Getting antsy. 
Based on weights posted on the DF site (and adding to what's assembled so far) and also from other posts here, seems like 25-26 lbs is what can be expected for the final weight of these bikes. Anyone disagree? Only way to further reduce is dropping more coin on ultra light components, everywhere. Still, that's quite a light fat bike and is a significant upgrade over an all aluminum 30+ pounder.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Mine is 24,9 lbs, 1x10, XT gear and brake, Crankbrothers 3 pedals, Raceface turbine cinch crank, 90mm carbon rims, Dillinger 5 tubeless (120ml /4 oz sealant). My experience is that tracking is a bit random. My frame checket out from China and turned up at my local post office two weeks later. No tracking events on its journey.


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

My frame from ICAN only took 1 day from Shenzhen to US customs. My wheels were shipped three days later in a separate package and it's been almost two weeks and they haven't made it to the US yet. EMS does seem rather random with their status. It's hard to tell whether a package actually got put on a plane or whether it's just sitting in a container somewhere.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Brankulo, if you don't mind, what was the total cost?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


dont have exact figure, but adding it up quickly in my head right now it was probably just shy of $3k.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

revelcru said:


> I'm still waiting for my DF wheels to complete the build. Those shipped over two weeks ago, but tracking info says they're still in China. Getting antsy.
> Based on weights posted on the DF site (and adding to what's assembled so far) and also from other posts here, seems like 25-26 lbs is what can be expected for the final weight of these bikes. Anyone disagree? Only way to further reduce is dropping more coin on ultra light components, everywhere. Still, that's quite a light fat bike and is a significant upgrade over an all aluminum 30+ pounder.


yeah 26-25 lbs totally doable. i could shave additional weight on mine with lighter seat and seat post, stem, lighter drive train....


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## phatbiker (Mar 3, 2004)

a couple of updates to my ip 018. 100mm Bluto and Van Helgas. The Bluto cleared by 2mm so I did not need the Cane Creek 3mm race (bought it just in case). Geometry feel really good!


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## No_Roads (Oct 27, 2012)

akgrimace said:


> My frame from ICAN only took 1 day from Shenzhen to US customs. My wheels were shipped three days later in a separate package and it's been almost two weeks and they haven't made it to the US yet. EMS does seem rather random with their status. It's hard to tell whether a package actually got put on a plane or whether it's just sitting in a container somewhere.


Once it lands in the US you can (usually) track it via the USPS tracking site with the same tracking number.


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

Good to know! I'll try my friend's Bluto on my ip-010 and see what happens.


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

phatbiker said:


> a couple of updates to my ip 018. 100mm Bluto and Van Helgas. The Bluto cleared by 2mm so I did not need the Cane Creek 3mm race (bought it just in case). Geometry feel really good!
> 
> View attachment 956622


@Phatbiker nice ride! What's the weight of your bike?


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## BonesNis (May 23, 2006)

Well, how did the Bluto fit on the IP-010? Thanks.


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## phatbiker (Mar 3, 2004)

Minionbike said:


> @Phatbiker nice ride! What's the weight of your bike?


haven't weighed it yet but it was just under 28lbs with the carbon fork so my guess is about 31lbs now. the increase in weight is not noticeable to me. The Bluto is a game changer for me as I can enjoy this bike pretty much anywhere now. That said, I do not drink the fat bike cool aid as other do. Fatties are fun for sure but I enjoy my 160mm travel trail bike as much if not more. I love all bikes regardless of travel or tire width!

N


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## christianr (Jul 21, 2014)

Update on YishunBike frame kit:

- Rear end now 12x197mm
- Crankset comes with 30T chainring


----------



## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

As soon my friend comes back from powder skiing in France...


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## BonesNis (May 23, 2006)

Thanks


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

IP-N019 ordered yesterday and already tracking.

I have a Lurch FS Bluto on the way as well. Plan to swap the parts over (as much as possible) and sell the Lurch frame. Then I can slowly upgrade parts. The Lurch seatpost won't fit and I'm guessing I'll need a different stem. I have a Salsa Bend2 17° sitting around that was a dream on my previous Lurch. Assuming my usual Thomson stem, seatpost, and a few other random parts to make the swap complete and also assuming I can get $2-300 for an unridden Lurch frame, I'll be out of pocket around $1800 for the whole bike. I sold my Niner for $1745. I like!


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

is this Borealis frame also from China?









I can see that the latest Lamere is from China. Looks like FM190. (from this video)






Salsa frames looks like FM190 but there's a difference in location of the inner cabling.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Minionbike said:


> is this Borealis frame also from China?
> 
> View attachment 957887
> 
> ...


all them cf frames are all pretty much made in china, if it has brand name on it, you basically pay $1000 more for that sticker


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

yeah man! hehehe. I got the IP-019 already. I'm thinking of building another one. I like the Borealis frame. But I don't know who is the manufacturer/seller.


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

Minionbike said:


> my frame is on it's way....
> 
> View attachment 956171


Hello,
I ordered the same frameset and i'm waiting to receive it.
have you seen if is it possible install a 170 mm spindle?
Thanks


----------



## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

Minionbike said:


> yeah man! hehehe. I got the IP-019 already. I'm thinking of building another one. I like the Borealis frame. But I don't know who is the manufacturer/seller.


Is it in hand or do you mean you ordered it already? Would love to see some pictures and impressions on tire fit! I don't think we have seen IP-019 built up yet.


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

friliver16 said:


> Hello,
> I ordered the same frameset and i'm waiting to receive it.
> have you seen if is it possible install a 170 mm spindle?
> Thanks


I'm still waiting for the crankset. But i ordered a 190mm spindle.


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

yes bro. but my wheelset isn't here yet. I'll take a photo once I got the wheelset.


----------



## savage14 (Apr 2, 2005)

What are the long term thoughts on some of these frames? Has anyone been riding a frame for 3+seasons yet?


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

christianr said:


> Update on YishunBike frame kit:
> 
> - Rear end now 12x197mm
> - Crankset comes with 30T chainring


Too bad about the 30t chaining. Fat bikes need a 28 and 26 tooth option.


----------



## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

christianr said:


> Update on YishunBike frame kit:
> 
> - Rear end now 12x197mm
> - Crankset comes with 30T chainring


What crankset is this?


----------



## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

according to Yishun bike. this is the brand of the crankset.

http://www.firstcomponents.com/products.php?cat_id=97


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

savage14 said:


> What are the long term thoughts on some of these frames? Has anyone been riding a frame for 3+seasons yet?


I don't believe these frames have even been out on the market for half that long. Seems like the MTB frames are holding up fine though, so... there's that.


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## kylehampton (Mar 25, 2004)

Finally finished my IP-010


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## Snoopshomes (Aug 28, 2014)

I'm just not sold on this yet... some of the guys here are saying, "it's the same frame--put a logo on it and you're spending $1000 more." Guys, I just don't buy it yet. The frame I inspected was literally sloppy as hell. I can post pics if you want. It's from ican and it's just all out sloppy. In the carbon builds I've completed I'm yet to see a more poorly crafted frame. I'm really interested in seeing how this plays out. The hubs I inspected don't seem fit to last more than a season of hard riding... again, we'll see.


----------



## Snoopshomes (Aug 28, 2014)

tschewy said:


> just opened the box with my carbon frame. found frame finished chipped near where the chainstay hits the BB (non drive side). would you accept this frame or would you ask for a different one? i have sent email to seller already about getting a different frame, but I am trying to gauge from you guys if you would do the same, or just live with it.
> 
> it looks like it's just a chip in the finish, but how am I to know if this will become structural with repeated wetting and drying.


This is the crap I'm talking about.


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Snoopshomes said:


> I'm just not sold on this yet... some of the guys here are saying, "it's the same frame--put a logo on it and you're spending $1000 more." Guys, I just don't buy it yet. The frame I inspected was literally sloppy as hell. I can post pics if you want. It's from ican and it's just all out sloppy. In the carbon builds I've completed I'm yet to see a more poorly crafted frame. I'm really interested in seeing how this plays out. The hubs I inspected don't seem fit to last more than a season of hard riding... again, we'll see.


Post some pics.


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

So Bluto does fit!? Are you using +5mm crown race? Is it 100mm Bluto?


----------



## Snoopshomes (Aug 28, 2014)

So I've officially read through this entire thread and I'm hoping some one with hands on experience can help us out. No one seems to care where these frames are coming from. It's as if "chinese carbon" all comes from the same place, same town, same factory. It's as if the entire chinese populace is now one mighty carbon frame builder. So are we to assume that Pivot, Ibis, Santa Cruz, etc are making their frames in the exact same factories that ican is making theirs? I have now seen three ican frames... these are definitely being made in a different corner of the warehouse than Pivot's... until this gets sorted out I'm keeping my order for my new ibis hd3. In 5 years ican will either be the biggest frame producer in the world or out of business.


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Snoopshomes said:


> So I've officially read through this entire thread and I'm hoping some one with hands on experience can help us out. No one seems to care where these frames are coming from. It's as if "chinese carbon" all comes from the same place, same town, same factory. It's as if the entire chinese populace is now one mighty carbon frame builder. So are we to assume that Pivot, Ibis, Santa Cruz, etc are making their frames in the exact same factories that ican is making theirs? I have now seen three ican frames... these are definitely being made in a different corner of the warehouse than Pivot's... until this gets sorted out I'm keeping my order for my new ibis hd3. In 5 years ican will either be the biggest frame producer in the world or out of business.


I hope you like that ibis. In the meantime, no one cares about your opinion of these frames. One thing you lose when you buy this type of frame is the quality control element that you would get with a more reputable manufacturer. Don't think those other companies don't produce frames with flaws. They all do. Its just part of the process. The difference is that the more reputable manufacturers won't allow those frames to be sent out under any circumstances.


----------



## kylehampton (Mar 25, 2004)

simen said:


> So Bluto does fit!? Are you using +5mm crown race? Is it 100mm Bluto?


It is indeed the 100mm Bluto. I have the Cane Creek race on order because of the clearance issues. I am pretty sure this will resolve the issue.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Snoopshomes said:


> I'm just not sold on this yet... The hubs I inspected don't seem fit to last more than a season of hard riding... again, we'll see.


The only hub failures I keep hearing about are Hope's. My Chiner's have been fine so far but like you said, we'll see.


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

I've got an ICAN frame. Absolutely nothing wrong with its QC on a cosmetic basis. 

It matches all its published dimensions, including weight, and is perfectly aligned.

As for structural integrity? Only time will tell, but it certainly feels solid enough.


----------



## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Quote Originally Posted by tschewy View Post
just opened the box with my carbon frame. found frame finished chipped near where the chainstay hits the BB (non drive side)


Snoopshomes said:


> This is the crap I'm talking about.


The last 3 biukes I bought from the LBS all had some cosmetic damage. Whether this was from the bike shop or the frame manufacturer I don't know. One was from Cannondale, one was from Giant and one from Specialized. All were high end carbon bikes. All from different bike shops. In each case, the bike shop did NOTHING to accommodate me. So to say "This is the crap I'm talking about" is ridiculous. All the big names also have issues. And they do leave the warehouse. I have a hardtail Chiner 29 and a full suspension Chiner 29, each with no issues
So I say Chiner On!!!!!


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Snoopshomes said:


> So I've officially read through this entire thread and I'm hoping some one with hands on experience can help us out. No one seems to care where these frames are coming from. It's as if "chinese carbon" all comes from the same place, same town, same factory. It's as if the entire chinese populace is now one mighty carbon frame builder. So are we to assume that Pivot, Ibis, Santa Cruz, etc are making their frames in the exact same factories that ican is making theirs? I have now seen three ican frames... these are definitely being made in a different corner of the warehouse than Pivot's... until this gets sorted out I'm keeping my order for my new ibis hd3. In 5 years ican will either be the biggest frame producer in the world or out of business.


Seems to me that if you have read an entire thread called "Chinese Carbon fatty" and your response is to get an Ibis HD3 you are a little confused. My hands on experience is that a fat bike is not the same as a full suspension 27.5" bike.


----------



## Snoopshomes (Aug 28, 2014)

The point about ibis isn't anything with fatbikes--it's about "chinese carbon"--something you missed as you so quickly tried to be witty. I love the mtbr trolls. You guys crack me up. Keep it coming. This is what you guys live for. Pointlessly debating non issues in other's comments. Keep it up. Great entertainment. Nice airball.


----------



## Snoopshomes (Aug 28, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> Its just part of the process. The difference is that the more reputable manufacturers won't allow those frames to be sent out under any circumstances.


Yessss... this is what I'm talking about. See when we're not insulting one another we can actually have intelligent conversations... somewhat I guess.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Snoopshomes said:


> I love the mtbr trolls.


Isn't that kinda like "the pot calling the kettle black"??


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Snoopshomes said:


> I love the mtbr trolls. You guys crack me up. Keep it coming. This is what you guys live for. Pointlessly debating non issues in other's comments. Keep it up. Great entertainment. Nice airball.


Weird. I've been reading through this entire thread too and the only troll I've come across is you. You really don't see that? You came in trolling and wanting to debate them. Meanwhile, everyone else is building them and sharing their findings.


----------



## Johnny_T (May 29, 2004)

I got my DengFu FM190 frame and forks on Friday. I am still waiting for the wheels even though they supposedly shipped a week earlier. I am pretty happy with it, it was packed well and no scratches or issues. The headset cups where you place the bearing was kind of gooped up with glue or something, not smooth at all. I cleaned them out as best as I could and the headset seems smooth now. I for one don't understand the benefit of internal cable routing. It seems to be to just add complications to something that shouldn't be complicated. I was surprised that the frame had internal cable (cable only) routing to the rear brake and also hydraulic line mounts riveted to the frame. The internal routing for the rear derailleur was fine. A cable stop where the cable enters the frame and the cable went in and popped out near the rear derailleur as it should. I am not running a front derailleur but it is curious that the routing for the front is different. It has a large hole that the entire housing fits in. When I stuck a cable in it, it never popped out where it should, just hit the seat tube and stuck in the frame. As I said, it is a bigger hole and I found I could stick a piece of housing in the hole from the back and it comes out in the front where it should, so if I ever decided to run a front derailleur I could make it work. It is just odd that they didn't do it the same as the rear derailleur or rear brake which just routed cable through the frame, not housing. I got the 197 thru axle rear end, I didn't realize that the dropouts just bolt on to the frame. The derailleur hanger is part of the bolt on dropout so I may try to order an extra one now in case I ever need it. 

All in all it seems like it will be a nice bike when I get it built. It is very light and looks great. I will post pics when I get it finished.


----------



## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

I like internal routing. What size did you get Johnny? Any pictures? Did you weigh the frame and fork? 


Johnny_T said:


> I got my DengFu FM190 frame and forks on Friday. I am still waiting for the wheels even though they supposedly shipped a week earlier. I am pretty happy with it, it was packed well and no scratches or issues. The headset cups where you place the bearing was kind of gooped up with glue or something, not smooth at all. I cleaned them out as best as I could and the headset seems smooth now. I for one don't understand the benefit of internal cable routing. It seems to be to just add complications to something that shouldn't be complicated. I was surprised that the frame had internal cable (cable only) routing to the rear brake and also hydraulic line mounts riveted to the frame. The internal routing for the rear derailleur was fine. A cable stop where the cable enters the frame and the cable went in and popped out near the rear derailleur as it should. I am not running a front derailleur but it is curious that the routing for the front is different. It has a large hole that the entire housing fits in. When I stuck a cable in it, it never popped out where it should, just hit the seat tube and stuck in the frame. As I said, it is a bigger hole and I found I could stick a piece of housing in the hole from the back and it comes out in the front where it should, so if I ever decided to run a front derailleur I could make it work. It is just odd that they didn't do it the same as the rear derailleur or rear brake which just routed cable through the frame, not housing. I got the 197 thru axle rear end, I didn't realize that the dropouts just bolt on to the frame. The derailleur hanger is part of the bolt on dropout so I may try to order an extra one now in case I ever need it.
> 
> All in all it seems like it will be a nice bike when I get it built. It is very light and looks great. I will post pics when I get it finished.


----------



## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Johnny-t or anyone who knows,

Can you post a link to the dengfu online. 

If I've missed it reading thought the thread I'm very sorry. 

Right now this is the sight I have been eyeballin - xmiplay.com

But, I would like to know what other options are out there. Or, if the group has come to a consensus on what the best frame/fork combo is for the $. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Johnny-t or anyone who knows,
> 
> Can you post a link to the dengfu online.
> 
> ...


dengfu fm190

i opted for dengfu because of tire clearance, there are other frames that have better geo but clearance for large tires is tight or non existent.


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Johnny-t or anyone who knows,
> 
> Can you post a link to the dengfu online.
> 
> ...


XMiplay IP-N019 with FK-019 150x15/197x12 100mm BB combo seems ideal option, they declare 5.0'' max tire clearance. Looking forward to those IP-N019 complete bike pictures, some guys should build them up soon. You may keep your eyes on this bike as well


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

just be careful with their max tire size statements. me and couple other members learned hard way.


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## Johnny_T (May 29, 2004)

shoo said:


> I like internal routing. What size did you get Johnny? Any pictures? Did you weigh the frame and fork?


I haven't taken any pictures yet, i will add them when I get the wheels and the final build done. I didn't weigh the frame and fork, I don't have a scale other than a bathroom scale. I got the 19.5 inch frame. I am 6'0" and comparing it to my other bikes I think it is going to fit really well.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Can anyone confirm that the FM190 has internal dropper post cable routing? Lamere says their 190 does and it appears to be the exact same frame.


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

My IP-N019 is through customs in San Francisco and on its way here. I'm guessing Friday if I'm lucky, Monday if not.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Velobike said:


> I've got an ICAN frame. Absolutely nothing wrong with its QC on a cosmetic basis.
> 
> It matches all its published dimensions, including weight, and is perfectly aligned.
> 
> As for structural integrity? Only time will tell, but it certainly feels solid enough.


Any idea on where to get spare der hangers for it?


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

mikesee said:


> Any idea on where to get spare der hangers for it?


I ordered a few extra with my frame, they were only $2 bucks I think.. I'm sure they'll send you extras but dunno know what shipping costs by themselves.. I dealt with Linda- [email protected]


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Has anyone considered just buying a bike like a BD lurch, then sell the frame and use the components to build a Chinese carbon? It seems like a very cost efficient method but, I'm not a fatbike expert. 

Would you run into sizing problems? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Has anyone considered just buying a bike like a BD lurch, then sell the frame and use the components to build a Chinese carbon? It seems like a very cost efficient method but, I'm not a fatbike expert.
> 
> Would you run into sizing problems?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly what I'm doing. Most things should swap.

You'll definitely need a new seatpost. I recall the front derailleur being direct mount on the Lurch, so you'll need a new mount or just go 1x. Hubs end caps should be swappable to thru-axle, though the frame deserves better wheels anyway.


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

djrez4 said:


> Exactly what I'm doing. Most things should swap.
> 
> You'll definitely need a new seatpost. I recall the front derailleur being direct mount on the Lurch, so you'll need a new mount or just go 1x. Hubs end caps should be swappable to thru-axle, though the frame deserves better wheels anyway.


Did you order the lurch or another BD bike?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Johnny_T (May 29, 2004)

lancelot said:


> Can anyone confirm that the FM190 has internal dropper post cable routing? Lamere says their 190 does and it appears to be the exact same frame.


My FM190 that i received last week DOES NOT have internal dropper post cable rounting. If they are making them that way for Lamere it may be an option.


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Did you order the lurch or another BD bike?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A Lurch. The IP-N019 will be here today or tomorrow. The Lurch is stuck on a boat somewhere off the West Coast.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Where do the two downtube holes go? Guessing brake and rear Der? Thx


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

lancelot said:


> Where do the two downtube holes go? Guessing brake and rear Der? Thx


yes


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

IP-N019 arrived. Total shipping time was 6 days from Xiamen to Denver.

17" frame, with fork, FSA No. 42 headset, both axles.








Full frame picture.








Chainstays - about 5.25" of clearance








Seatstays - about 5.5" of clearance








Front and rear axles - $30.

Anyone want any measurements?


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

djrez4 said:


> IP-N019 arrived. Total shipping time was 6 days from Xiamen to Denver.
> 
> 17" frame, with fork, FSA No. 42 headset, both axles.
> 
> Anyone want any measurements?


I would like to know the ETT


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

brankulo said:


> yes


So they give two different rear brake options? I read somewhere on here where a guy mentioned one hit the seat tube inside and wasn't sure what it was for.


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

mucky said:


> I would like to know the ETT


List is 590mm. I don't have a seatpost, so I had to eyeball it. My tape says it's 590mm, maybe +/- 1 or 2mm.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

not sure, maybe they forgot to install internal hose that directs cable out on his frame. there is option to internally route front and rear der an rear brake (cable only). there are attachment points for rear hydro hose on the frame as well. the internal routing for front der can be used to route dropper in case you dont run front der.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

djrez4 said:


> List is 590mm. I don't have a seatpost, so I had to eyeball it. My tape says it's 590mm, maybe +/- 1 or 2mm.


Thanks. I have seen the geo specs, and just wanted to make sure. Most of the Fat Frames have 605mm ETT's for a 17"/18" frame. This is great.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Curious what the inside of the BB looks like? If seat tube is open and sleeving is exposed. I would be running 11 speed and external rear brake line. Would be nice to use right side downtube hole for dropper if possible.


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

djrez4 said:


> IP-N019 arrived. Total shipping time was 6 days from Xiamen to Denver.
> 
> 17" frame, with fork, FSA No. 42 headset, both axles.
> 
> ...


hello,
nice frame!
my arrived, but it is still standing customs ... :-(
which spindle will install you? 170 or 190 mm?


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## MomentumBarracuda (Jan 3, 2015)

I used a RF Next SL crank on this frame and it requires the 190 spindle. Make sue you get the 11 mm spacers if using a RF crank. Our frames arrived last week and are being built now.


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

Thanks.
I also bought the same crank.
they will be two twin bike!


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## Greggory85 (Jan 13, 2015)

For the FM190 frame do I need a crank with 120 mm bb or will any 100 mm bb crankset work?

Thanks


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

*New dream chinese fatty! FM190*

Hi guys, I am a total bike noob but I am really fired up to get myself a carbon fatty.
I used to love my small bike with fat tires as a kid and have always wondered why noone makes them. Until now!
I've read pretty much the whole thread and set myself on the FM190 frame. I am not a racer so I dont need the single track geometry, but i love exploring and going through mud/etc.

I've got a 4wd and love adventuring, I can also work on my car myself so I dont see why I cant build a bike - with your help of course! But first - to select the right parts. I want to get it right the first time. I am in Australia - so lots of sand and mud, no snow.
So my intentions are:
1) Build the lightest possible bike without compromising the reliability too much
2) Budget - $3000-4000 or so 
3) Fattest lightest tires (lightest out of the fat ones)

Please let me know whats wrong/how you would improve the parts I selected:
1) Frame - Denfgu FM190
2) Fork - Dengfu 150mm FO190 fork with thru axles- is this the one I should go for?
3) Handlebars Dengfu? What about handle bar grips?
4) Headset - Kcnc R1 Tapered 61.5g - would that fit?
Expander Mcfk 10.1g
Top Cap FWB 5.8g
Spacers Cane Creek Aer 9.7g

5) Saddle - Tune Komm-Vor Dual 94.6g?
6) Dropper post - crank brothers kronolog
Seat collar - comes with frame?
7) Crank - Raceface Next SL 170mm - is this the right one?
BB - Race Face BSA 30mm Bottom Bracket 100mm
Chainring - SRAM XX1 Chainring 32T - will this fit onto the Crank above? (more or less cogs?
8) Rear Derailleur - SRAM XX1 Type 2 11 Speed Rear Mech 2014
9) Shifter - SRAM XX1 11sp Trigger Shifter
10) Rear cessette - SRAM XX1 XG1199 11 Speed MTB Cassette
11) Chain - SRAM XX1 HollowPin 11 Speed Chain
12) Front Brake Magura MT8 178.1g
Rotor Kcnc Razor 160 73.6g
Rotor bolts Ashima Alloy 5.2g

13) Rear Brake Magura MT8 188.3g
Rotor Kcnc Razor 160g
Rotor bolts Ashima Alloy 5.2g
14) I assume the drivetrain only works with the XX1 components - is that correct?
15) Shift & break cables - ??
16) Tires - Husker Du on 90mm Wild Dragon Nextie Rims - will these fit?
Spokes - ??
Hubs - ??
Stans sealant?
Do you guys think its worth it buying Nexties and paying a shop to build them from scratch - considering I am very under-qualified?
Is it a better idea to buy the dengfu Carbon 80mm wheels?

Feel free to suggest any part that you think is better! This is very much a "noob" list so I assume you guys will slam my poor choices quicksmart! haha

Exciting times! I already ordered the perfect bike carrier for my 4wd! Thanks in advance!


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

djrez4 said:


> IP-N019 arrived. Total shipping time was 6 days from Xiamen to Denver.
> 
> 17" frame, with fork, FSA No. 42 headset, both axles.
> 
> ...


So 5.0'' tires can fit on IP-N019 frame and FK-019 fork, right ?


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Alright everyone, if you've built up a Chinese carbon fatty, I'd love to see your builds (with pics!) and parts lists (price too if your willing to share) 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

thats the one intended to use for rear der


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## Kenttu (Sep 8, 2014)

I ordered mine IP-N019 frame with wheels end of November. It was sent last Friday but tracking don't recognize packet yet. Wheels will be sent tomorrow. I took a risk and already ordered Sram XX1 fat bike cranks. I hope they will fit and don't contact chain stays...


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

bombermate said:


> Hi guys, I am a total bike noob but I am really fired up to get myself a carbon fatty.
> I used to love my small bike with fat tires as a kid and have always wondered why noone makes them. Until now!
> I've read pretty much the whole thread and set myself on the FM190 frame. I am not a racer so I dont need the single track geometry, but i love exploring and going through mud/etc.
> 
> ...


Tune komm-vor dont fit in the kronolog post.


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

lancelot said:


> Curious what the inside of the BB looks like? If seat tube is open and sleeving is exposed. I would be running 11 speed and external rear brake line. Would be nice to use right side downtube hole for dropper if possible.


There's a metal shell in there. It's not completely solid, but it blocks most of the seat tube. I can't see the sleeve for the rear brake line. I assume it runs over the top of the bottom bracket shell. Doesn't look easy to access. I'll try to snag a picture when I drop by my LBS later to have the headset pressed in.



friliver16 said:


> hello,
> nice frame!
> my arrived, but it is still standing customs ... :-(
> which spindle will install you? 170 or 190 mm?


Assume you mean crank spindle. I'm stealing all possible components off a Lurch. I think it comes with a 190.



Bikrider said:


> So 5.0'' tires can fit on IP-N019 frame and FK-019 fork, right ?


Don't know. Haven't tried. I just measured the clearance.


----------



## Greggory85 (Jan 13, 2015)

Anybody help me out with a crankset + bb for dengfu fm190? Can't seem to find 120 mm BB anywhere.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dengfu is 100mm bb


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## MomentumBarracuda (Jan 3, 2015)

Here is a IP-N019 freshly built up that may answer questions you may have. 23.75 lbs as shown. Crank spindle is 190 version as 170 version was 3-4mm to short. Q factor is wide but after a couple rides should be fine as I'm no small guy. Plenty of tire clearance. Rims are N65 with D5 studded tires set up tubeless (very easy) with single layer of 1" wide 3M 8898 tape and 3 oz of Stans per wheel. Thanks to all for contributing to the forum, it helped answer many questions in the past few months.


----------



## Greggory85 (Jan 13, 2015)

brankulo said:


> dengfu is 100mm bb


Thank You! Was hearing conflicting info.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

brankulo said:


> thats the one intended to use for rear der


Seems backwards right? Usually rear shifter is mounted on right side so cable should go around headtube and enter frame on left side.


----------



## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

that is one awesome N019! I'm waiting for my groupset so I can build my N019.


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

Very nice bike!
The frame size is 17 or 19 inches?
I am 180 cm (5feet 11inches) height and I have ordered the measure 19 ".
forgive my bad English


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

talked to a shop and they are selling this frame. It's the same as Borealis Yampa and Lamere but according to the seller. This has 190mm rear spacing.

Yampa is gloss black.
Lamere is matte black.


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## MomentumBarracuda (Jan 3, 2015)

My bike is a19 with a 105mm stem and I am 6'1" tall with a 34" inseam. The seat height (bb to top of sadde is set at 32" in this picture. Enjoy your bike when you get it.


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## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

you had to go with the 190 spindle?does it have 120mm bottom shell?The crankset they sell they told me it was a 170 spindle.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

MomentumBarracuda said:


> Here is a IP-N019 freshly built up that may answer questions you may have. 23.75 lbs as shown. Crank spindle is 190 version as 170 version was 3-4mm to short. Q factor is wide but after a couple rides should be fine as I'm no small guy. Plenty of tire clearance. Rims are N65 with D5 studded tires set up tubeless (very easy) with single layer of 1" wide 3M 8898 tape and 3 oz of Stans per wheel. Thanks to all for contributing to the forum, it helped answer many questions in the past few months.


Very nice! The IP-019 has much better tire clearance than my IP-010!


----------



## MomentumBarracuda (Jan 3, 2015)

The BB is 100 mm wide, however the chain stays flair out quite a bit so the Next SL cranks for a "170" wide fat bike crank do not fit. They hit the chain stays on both sides as I said in the post. I'm just trying t help clarify for this crank which version you would need or use. I don't know about other cranks and their specific BB spindle length and Q factor. Good luck.


----------



## Greggory85 (Jan 13, 2015)

Minionbike said:


> View attachment 959927
> 
> 
> talked to a shop and they are selling this frame. It's the same as Borealis Yampa and Lamere but according to the seller. This has 190mm rear spacing.
> ...


Any quote on how much these are and where to get them?

Thanks!


----------



## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Minionbike said:


> View attachment 959927
> 
> 
> talked to a shop and they are selling this frame. It's the same as Borealis Yampa and Lamere but according to the seller. This has 190mm rear spacing.
> ...


The Yampa and Lamere are different bikes on several levels. Look at the top tubes, seat stays and head tube area for example. This bike looks more like the Lamere to me. I don't like sales people who make statements like "this is just like X" when clearly not. OK rant over.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

MomentumBarracuda said:


> Here is a IP-N019 freshly built up that may answer questions you may have. 23.75 lbs as shown. Crank spindle is 190 version as 170 version was 3-4mm to short. Q factor is wide but after a couple rides should be fine as I'm no small guy. Plenty of tire clearance. Rims are N65 with D5 studded tires set up tubeless (very easy) with single layer of 1" wide 3M 8898 tape and 3 oz of Stans per wheel. Thanks to all for contributing to the forum, it helped answer many questions in the past few months.
> 
> View attachment 959782


Beautiful bike.....drool


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## Kenttu (Sep 8, 2014)

MomentumBarracuda said:


> The BB is 100 mm wide, however the chain stays flair out quite a bit so the Next SL cranks for a "170" wide fat bike crank do not fit. They hit the chain stays on both sides as I said in the post. I'm just trying t help clarify for this crank which version you would need or use. I don't know about other cranks and their specific BB spindle length and Q factor. Good luck.


Could you measure the outer width of the chain stays so I can be sure that my XX1 cranks with direct mount Wolftooth won't be fit... I'm afraid so....  XX1 fat bike cranks has inside clearance dimensions 176mm (q-factor 201mm).


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## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

I think there is a member that put an x9 spindle on xx1 arms to fit his chainstays. But I could be wrong.


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## MomentumBarracuda (Jan 3, 2015)

The frame N019 is 174mm wide just in front of the crank boots shown in the pictures and this is the widest point from the BB to the end of the 175mm crank arm. if you have 176MM to work with, maybe you'll get lucky. The RF website has a good table showing the Q factors for different cranks and it lists the Next SL with a "170 fat Bike BB" as a Q factor of 202 and that did not work. Your crank arms may be thinner. You'll have to try it I guess. Here is a link to the reference data I used. http://www.raceface.com/comp/pdf/FATBIKE-CRANK-CLEARANCES.pdf


----------



## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

The correct measurement of q-factor is the distance between each pedal side of the crank arm. So while measuring width of the chainstays you will have to add the width of each crank arm. But each crank arm is different so it's really a crapshoot, too many different standards.


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## Kenttu (Sep 8, 2014)

Thanks, 176mm is informed by sram. 86.5 mm (NDS) + 89.5 mm (DS). But it will see when frame is arrived that how the cranks will fit.

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...._0000000004420_rev._b_mtb_drivetrain_ffs.pdf


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

I will be building a Velo Build FB-010 197*12 135*15 (already ordered) with Hope Fatsno hubs. There isn't a lot of info on the fork. Is the correct hub FDS?


----------



## Johnny_T (May 29, 2004)

*My FM190 build*

I finally got my FM190 complete and running. No major problems, it just took a while to get all parts and everything together. I built the DengFu FM190 with the DengFu 80mm Carbon rims with Chosen hubs. I have had 3 sets of Stan's wheels with Chosen hubs and never had a problem with them. I did a Shimano XT 1x10 drivetrain with a Wolftooth 42 cog and RaceFace Cinch turbine cranks. I used a Niner Carbon bar I already had and a Thomson seat post and Specialized seat. I put Bud/Lou tires set up tubeless (surprisingly easily on the Deng Fu rims). On my bathroom scale it was 26.4 pounds without pedals. I put a ton of Stan's in and I think with lighter summer tires I can be under 25 lbs. I used a few things I already had (bars, cassette, pedals, brakes) and spent about $2400 to get it going. Way cheap compared to any name brand options.

I did a short ride in the snow this morning and it was a lot of fun. Rides like a real mtn bike and plowed through everything I could find. I was afraid with the long chainstays I wouldn't be able to wheelie over things, but I still could.

If you have any questions, let me know.


----------



## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Johnny_T said:


> I finally got my FM190 complete and running. No major problems, it just took a while to get all parts and everything together. I built the DengFu FM190 with the DengFu 80mm Carbon rims with Chosen hubs. I have had 3 sets of Stan's wheels with Chosen hubs and never had a problem with them. I did a Shimano XT 1x10 drivetrain with a Wolftooth 42 cog and RaceFace Cinch turbine cranks. I used a Niner Carbon bar I already had and a Thomson seat post and Specialized seat. I put Bud/Lou tires set up tubeless (surprisingly easily on the Deng Fu rims). On my bathroom scale it was 26.4 pounds without pedals. I put a ton of Stan's in and I think with lighter summer tires I can be under 25 lbs. I used a few things I already had (bars, cassette, pedals, brakes) and spent about $2400 to get it going. Way cheap compared to any name brand options.
> 
> I did a short ride in the snow this morning and it was a lot of fun. Rides like a real mtn bike and plowed through everything I could find. I was afraid with the long chainstays I wouldn't be able to wheelie over things, but I still could.
> 
> If you have any questions, let me know.


Nice build.
What axle did you use for the cranks? The 100 or 120 version.
Also If your frame is a medium 17/18, could you measure the ETT

Thanks


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Johnny_T said:


> I finally got my FM190 complete and running. No major problems, it just took a while to get all parts and everything together. I built the DengFu FM190 with the DengFu 80mm Carbon rims with Chosen hubs. I have had 3 sets of Stan's wheels with Chosen hubs and never had a problem with them. I did a Shimano XT 1x10 drivetrain with a Wolftooth 42 cog and RaceFace Cinch turbine cranks. I used a Niner Carbon bar I already had and a Thomson seat post and Specialized seat. I put Bud/Lou tires set up tubeless (surprisingly easily on the Deng Fu rims). On my bathroom scale it was 26.4 pounds without pedals. I put a ton of Stan's in and I think with lighter summer tires I can be under 25 lbs. I used a few things I already had (bars, cassette, pedals, brakes) and spent about $2400 to get it going. Way cheap compared to any name brand options.
> 
> I did a short ride in the snow this morning and it was a lot of fun. Rides like a real mtn bike and plowed through everything I could find. I was afraid with the long chainstays I wouldn't be able to wheelie over things, but I still could.
> 
> ...


Been riding the hell out of mine fm 190 and it has been awesome, nice build there


----------



## Johnny_T (May 29, 2004)

mucky said:


> Nice build.
> What axle did you use for the cranks? The 100 or 120 version.
> Also If your frame is a medium 17/18, could you measure the ETT
> 
> Thanks


Mine is a 19.5. I used RF Cinch cranks for a 170 rear end with the sprocket flipped. Plenty of clearance of the chainstay and also plenty of room for the chain to clear the tire.


----------



## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Looks nice!


----------



## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

Very nice fbike!


----------



## Duci (Jul 21, 2011)

Received my SN01 from Ican yesterday. Shipping to Switzerland took only 7days. Will build it up with 90mm Carbonrims (with 4.8" Jumbo Jim), Shimano XT with 1x10 (11-41) and Rock Shox Bluto.


----------



## christianr (Jul 21, 2014)

Few new pics of our fatbike kit.
Will show you my personal build next week.


----------



## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

what bb and crankset are you planning on


----------



## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

christianr said:


> Hi all,
> I'm Christian from YishunBike, I'm based in Europe to improve service of all area and also keep an eye on USA and America.
> For any question, orders and so on please contact me writing to christian*AT*yishunbike.com
> 
> ...


Chris is absolutely a shill, or he must be from Yishun directly, not based in Europe, how shamelessly they did to make their own market. I heard many things from Carbonality, Synergy bikes and speedercycling, Yishun made their own fat bike rims mould and offers lowest price, but there was many problems with their rims, not easy to mount tires, easy cracking and badly they don't cover the warranty issue rims, not responsible. Maybe this is their market plan. But people don't like a shill, it was better you could admit you are from Yishun.


----------



## Duci (Jul 21, 2011)

bnelson said:


> what bb and crankset are you planning on


BB and cranksets are from First Components and I bought them over Ican. Chainring is 30 teeth


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Did you guys see ican? are selling complete carbon bikes with carbon rims?


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## christianr (Jul 21, 2014)

Bikrider said:


> Chris is absolutely a shill, or he must be from Yishun directly, not based in Europe, how shamelessly they did to make their own market. I heard many things from Carbonality, Synergy bikes and speedercycling, Yishun made their own fat bike rims mould and offers lowest price, but there was many problems with their rims, not easy to mount tires, easy cracking and badly they don't cover the warranty issue rims, not responsible. Maybe this is their market plan. But people don't like a shill, it was better you could admit you are from Yishun.


Honestly man I don't understand what you're saying / trying to do.
I live in Italy, I'm part of the company, what's your problem?
Or is there anything you can't understand in the line "I'm Christian from YishunBike" you quoted above?
Shilling? I work with Yishun it's clear and already told in my previous messages...

We made rims but you can be sure we don't have the lower prices on the market, and if you heard about problems from the competitors...Wow! what an affordable source!!!
Warranty? Ask our customers all over the world.

Take it easy man!


----------



## bikeguy0 (Aug 5, 2007)

*FM190 and 80MM Dengfu Hub/Dropout Issues!!! Help?*

Jonny_T, Can you please post a picture of your drop outs? Did you use spacers in addition to the hub end caps?
We just received 4 sets of FM190's and Dengfu 80mm wheels and all our cassettes lock rings are binding on our dropouts. We have the drop outs with the lip in them, see below. Please help. We are trying to race Fat Bike Nationals next weekend. I am looking at buying some washers or something locally to get this working while Wendy figures it out.

Here are the measurements of our frames.
Hubs: 190mm end cap to end cap, no additional spacers included (didn't receive any)
Frames: 190mm drop out face to dropout face


----------



## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

*IP 019 and Dnm fork.. No go*

Received my iplay IP 019... All is well except my inverted Dnm fork hits the downtube on full turn... :madman:


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

bikeguy0, those dropouts are probably for 197mm hubs (=190 hubs with 3,5mm longer endcaps).


----------



## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

christianr said:


> Honestly man I don't understand what you're saying / trying to do.
> I live in Italy, I'm part of the company, what's your problem?
> Or is there anything you can't understand in the line "I'm Christian from YishunBike" you quoted above?
> Shilling? I work with Yishun it's clear and already told in my previous messages...
> ...


At least they are not spammer as you guys, right ? People here talk about the vendors who offer quality products and great service, but not spammer. I read posts about your rims and service, some bad experience for sure. They talked on Velobuild.com and some other forums.


----------



## christianr (Jul 21, 2014)

Bikrider said:


> At least they are not spammer as you guys, right ? People here talk about the vendors who offer quality products and great service, but not spammer. I read posts about your rims and service, some bad experience for sure. They talked on Velobuild.com and some other forums.


Spammer with 6 messages, wow.
So others like Peter can shows their product but I can't. Interesting.

Chatting about this is off-topic anyway, if I did something wrong the staff will catch me, and that's all.
Again, take it easy, you're free to choose from other traders, not necessary to blame anyone with no reason.


----------



## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

joezuri said:


> Received my iplay IP 019... All is well except my inverted Dnm fork hits the downtube on full turn... :madman:
> View attachment 961565


That's odd. I definitely have more room under the downtube than that on my IP-N019.


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## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

100mm bb or 120bb shell


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Do you have a picture of just the fork? Looks like you might be missing the crown race. 


joezuri said:


> Received my iplay IP 019... All is well except my inverted Dnm fork hits the downtube on full turn... :madman:
> View attachment 961565


----------



## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

bikeguy0, if I'm not mistaken, the 190 dropouts should not have any sort of lip on them. Those look like the 197 dropouts, albeit spaced at 190...


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

ScaryJerry said:


> bikeguy0, if I'm not mistaken, the 190 dropouts should not have any sort of lip on them. Those look like the 197 dropouts, albeit spaced at 190...


Same problem the original IP-010 had.


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

shoo said:


> Do you have a picture of just the fork? Looks like you might be missing the crown race.


No I didn't miss the crown race. Its in there only that I have not knocked it in yet.


----------



## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Anyone got a pic of a FM190 rear axle?


----------



## wadedro (Feb 15, 2012)

shoo said:


> Do you have a picture of just the fork? Looks like you might be missing the crown race.


additionally, can you just install an external cup on the bottom side to space it out further?


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

wadedro said:


> additionally, can you just install an external cup on the bottom side to space it out further?


I thought of that. But i Don't think there is an external cup with an Id of 52mm in the market. I might be wrong?


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## vtmtber (Jun 21, 2009)

bikeguy0 said:


> Jonny_T, Can you please post a picture of your drop outs? Did you use spacers in addition to the hub end caps?
> We just received 4 sets of FM190's and Dengfu 80mm wheels and all our cassettes lock rings are binding on our dropouts. We have the drop outs with the lip in them, see below. Please help. We are trying to race Fat Bike Nationals next weekend. I am looking at buying some washers or something locally to get this working while Wendy figures it out.
> 
> Here are the measurements of our frames.
> ...


I had the exact same problem when I received fm190 with the Dengfu wheels except my wheels came with the spacers. You need to get the spacers and the 197 dropouts that have the recessed area for the spacers. 
If your desperate you could shim out the drive side for clearance of the cassette or maybe shave the lip off the dropout. The 197 dropout has no lip. Hope this helps. 
Good luck at Nationals!

Vtmtber


----------



## bikeguy0 (Aug 5, 2007)

OMG This is a cluster f**k. Wendy only wants to send us the spacers but not the drop outs. That will not work. Does anyone have another Skype for someone else at Dengfu. BTW I would build in like an extra 1-2 months of BS if you're going to order from Dengfu. Good Lord.


----------



## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

the Iplay-N019 is not compatible with Rockshox Bluto. the dial hits the downtube.


----------



## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

*Iplay IP 019 and suspension forks.. NO GO!*

Yeah I learned the hard way too.. It seems they designed the iplay 019 using a normal non fatty fork? It seems the Bluto and the Dnm hits the downtube at the dials.. :madman:


----------



## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

sryanak said:


> The Yampa and Lamere are different bikes on several levels. Look at the top tubes, seat stays and head tube area for example. This bike looks more like the Lamere to me. I don't like sales people who make statements like "this is just like X" when clearly not. OK rant over.


alright dude.

so this is the yampa.


----------



## wadedro (Feb 15, 2012)

*joezuri,*

my buddy recommended this maybe..........

This MAY work with a CC lower bearing, IF the fork is tapered....

Universal Cycles -- Salsa Cane Creek +3 40mm Crown Race

With this bearing.
Universal Cycles -- Cane Creek 40 IS52/40 Integrated Lower Assembly


----------



## wadedro (Feb 15, 2012)

wadedro said:


> *joezuri,*
> 
> my buddy recommended this maybe..........
> 
> ...


this may help too
Universal Cycles -- Chris King High Five Base Plate


----------



## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

wadedro said:


> *joezuri,*
> 
> my buddy recommended this maybe..........
> 
> ...


Thanks buddy.. That will be an option if I change to a Bluto. But my Dnm is a straight 1 1/8.. I'm using the cane Creek reducer..


----------



## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

wadedro said:


> this may help too
> Universal Cycles -- Chris King High Five Base Plate


Hold my milk.. This might work..


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

*Bluto on IP-N019*









I have drawn a sketch of the frame size 19" and Bluto in "theory" can be installed...


----------



## wadedro (Feb 15, 2012)

joezuri said:


> Hold my milk.. This might work..


from your pic, it should be just enough. otherwise, the bike looks great. did you have xmiplay paint it? what size frame is that, 17"?


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

it looks like a 15"


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

bikeguy0 said:


> OMG This is a cluster f**k. Wendy only wants to send us the spacers but not the drop outs. That will not work. Does anyone have another Skype for someone else at Dengfu. BTW I would build in like an extra 1-2 months of BS if you're going to order from Dengfu. Good Lord.


this has been discussed previously, although you would have to look for it. i believe ozzybmx has dropouts with lip (same as yours) and they worked for him with 197 fatsno hub. mine came with different dropouts, with slots, 197 spaced. maybe shoot ozzy pm to see how he went around making everything work.


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

brankulo said:


> this has been discussed previously, although you would have to look for it. i believe ozzybmx has dropouts with lip (same as yours) and they worked for him with 197 fatsno hub. mine came with different dropouts, with slots, 197 spaced. maybe shoot ozzy pm to see how he went around making everything work.


I had a similar issue of a 190 chosen hub but 197 drops on my fm190, so for a quick fix I had to go to the hardware store and buy some spacers, nylon ones were the closest I could find that fit... technically I think I'm 1/2 mm shy (combined) in thickness (applied grease and stuck them in place in each dropout slot), but the OD and ID were perfect (pic below). I put in another order for a bunch of spare parts from DF, I may be able to help a brother out once they arrive - likely not soon though. Just shout.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Minionbike said:


> alright dude.
> 
> so this is the yampa.
> 
> ...


So I will agree that a lot of the carbon bikes look a lot alike and these two do look more alike than the one in your first post And the Yampa. That one had a very different head tube area to my eye. Also the top tube curve and seat stays looked different. Top tube may have been due to it being a different size. The two in this post have a similar issue. Seat stays seem thinner vertically to me on the Yampa than either of the bikes you posted or the Lamere. We'll probably have to agree to disagree but to me the two pictures you show show slightly different bikes that are also somewhat different from either the Lamere or the Yampa. Once again maybe size related maybe not. The Lamere pictures have not changed from their early days so maybe they have changed the bike a bit since the pictures were taken.


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

wadedro said:


> from your pic, it should be just enough. otherwise, the bike looks great. did you have xmiplay paint it? what size frame is that, 17"?


It's a small size.. I'm 5'7". Yeah iplay painted it for me. But it's super pricey at $100 bucks. Not including the decals.


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

Frame N019 - Size 15.

I can't use the bluto with this frame.


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

Ouch!!!
Thanks for reply...
Theory is not always the truth


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Minionbike said:


> View attachment 962026
> 
> 
> Frame N019 - Size 15.
> ...


Pull the lockout lever and screw off and then see how much clearance you got


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

dgw2jr said:


> Pull the lockout lever and screw off and then see how much clearance you got


Or simply put a spacer under the lower crown race


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Looks like the N019 is out until the end of February. Is there another carbon frame set that will accept 5" tires?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Looks like the N019 is out until the end of February. Is there another carbon frame set that will accept 5" tires?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The guy in my LBS who helped me with my build has extra frames that'll fit 5" tires (along with all required parts) and I'm sure he would build one up for you and ship it, or sell you everything you need. Feel free to PM me for details.


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Pm coming this afternoon 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Argis (Feb 6, 2015)

How about the N018? Use the N019's front fork. Shorter chainstay. Is that a problem with 5" tires?


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

The crown race goes on the steerer tube. In the pictures it does not look installed. Most of the Chinese bikes are made for a tapered fork, yours looks 1 1/8 straight. Do you have a conversion crown race? Do you have a picture of the steerer tube with crown race installed up close?



joezuri said:


> No I didn't miss the crown race. Its in there only that I have not knocked it in yet.
> 
> View attachment 961668


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Velobike said:


> Or simply put a spacer under the lower crown race


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

Will this work? I place a rubber bumper where the blue knob hits the down tube. Hopefully it holds in the event of a crash..


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

joezuri said:


> No I didn't miss the crown race. Its in there only that I have not knocked it in yet.
> 
> View attachment 961668


What is this guy? Is this a Chinese version of a bluto?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

dgw2jr said:


> View attachment 962098


That is correct.

I figured folk here who are savvy enough to be building a carbon bike from scratch would have sufficient bike knowledge to know that you can get thicker crown races, or know someone who would knock one up.

Did I overestimate the forum members?


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Anyone know of any other Chinese carbon frames that can accept 5" tires other that the N019?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

pretty much all of them accept 4" tires.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

pretty much all of them accept 4" tires.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

joezuri said:


> View attachment 962097
> 
> 
> Will this work? I place a rubber bumper where the blue knob hits the down tube. Hopefully it holds in the event of a crash..


nice, they painted cable inset too, lol


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Haha. Meant 5" oops


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

sryanak said:


> So I will agree that a lot of the carbon bikes look a lot alike and these two do look more alike than the one in your first post And the Yampa. That one had a very different head tube area to my eye. Also the top tube curve and seat stays looked different. Top tube may have been due to it being a different size. The two in this post have a similar issue. Seat stays seem thinner vertically to me on the Yampa than either of the bikes you posted or the Lamere. We'll probably have to agree to disagree but to me the two pictures you show show slightly different bikes that are also somewhat different from either the Lamere or the Yampa. Once again maybe size related maybe not. The Lamere pictures have not changed from their early days so maybe they have changed the bike a bit since the pictures were taken.


In another thread Borealis and Lamere were feuding over the bike frame being the same other than one was 190 and the other 170. One of them was essentially saying that the frame would end up for sale on the open market anyway so was no big deal.
Maybe this is the frame with slight changes so as not to piss of Borealis any further?


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

*My build*

Here's my build by the way: Deng Fu fm190 19.5" (L) frame (197x12) w/ DF fork (135x15), DF carbon 80mm wheelset w/ chosen hubs and Dillinger 5s (tubes for now), X1 crankset 1x10, X9 rear der, cheapo pedals and saddle for now, DF carbon sp 400mm / stem 120mm / bars 700mm. Will upgrade a couple things over time, but everything is working great so far. Did have to adjust the headset a couple times but it's fine now. Super quick/snappy and lighter than my XL Farley6 by 2 lbs. The frames seem to run big to me... I'm 6'2" 190 with 36" inseam and the L Fm190 with 120mm stem fits same as XL Farley w/ 110mm stem. Tons of tire clearance! Now I just need snow.


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Forget the bike.... Want your stove!


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Nice bike!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jimbo15471 (Jun 18, 2012)

WSUPolar said:


> Forget the bike.... Want your stove!


You know you're old when the first thing you notice is the stove... I said the same thing.


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

jimbo15471 said:


> You know you're old when the first thing you notice is the stove... I said the same thing.


So true! Possibilities of great eating and biking in just one photo... only missing a six pack of IPA in the pic. Thanks for the comments guys.


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## thunderzy (Jul 23, 2010)

revelcru said:


> So true! Possibilities of great eating and biking in just one photo... only missing a six pack of IPA in the pic. Thanks for the comments guys.


Same here. Awesome stove


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

I like the bike... missus does the cooking, and I'm old


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

dgw2jr said:


> Pull the lockout lever and screw off and then see how much clearance you got


Can I use a threadless headset? since the fork will be slightly lower from the headtube?


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

What are people getting for prices for complete carbon wheelsets? Was looking at the light bike but they are pricey.. dengfu says they have a "new" 90mm which is hookless but ends up being almost 700 after shipping and all with chosen hubs. Hopefully building a set for my FM190 which has about 80 miles on it now... it rocks but does have high standover heights...


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## wadedro (Feb 15, 2012)

can someone with the IP -N019 plz post up the stand over on a large frame? Thanks


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

My frame size 19 "is at a standstill in customs.
these measures are purely "THEORETICAL". I've obtained from the geometry declared by the manufacturer.

I hope you can get more reliable information


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## wadedro (Feb 15, 2012)

ok thanks, plz post real stand over measurement once you get frame and have it up on some wheels. thanks


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## Marcobass (Nov 19, 2014)

joezuri said:


> No I didn't miss the crown race. Its in there only that I have not knocked it in yet.
> 
> View attachment 961668


Where did you buy that fork? I'm also looking for it.
Thank you in advice.
Marco


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## SilverBullet (Dec 5, 2008)

Ya, was surprised at the high standover on the FM190. I liked, it, but was surprised. I am 6'2" with a 33" inseam, and felt like I was on the right bike - I ride a XL Norco, and would not even think about going L on that brand.

I also thought that the overall geometry was great. I rode it on some very steep and technical singletrack, and felt like I was on my hardtail SS. The bike was ready to rally. And so quick going up a hill, especially with carbon wheels...

$700 with shipping sounds reasonable for what I have seen. I know that XMI 100mm wheels (Chosen or Novatec) were over $1000 and I did not factor shipping in. And Nextie's are a lot - prob a better rim though - 

For what it is worth, I have a set of 80mm DengFu's and was not super impressed with the overall quality. Granted, you get what you pay for, and I am used to Enve / Roval quality wheel builds...getting the tire on was super tough, and the carbon layup was light duty (i.e - pack snow only, steer clear of tough western singletrack).


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

I didn't want to start a new thread. 

has anyone bought a Chinese carbon fatty fork only?

I'm looking for some thing like the On One Carbon Fatty fork, but cheaper. 

Straight steerer, 135 MM QR

Thanks in advance.


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## dwilson (Dec 8, 2006)

So your saying at 6'2" the large felt big to you? I'm 5'11" and usually ride a L in a 29" hardtail (Niner) but think the 17.5" woulds be better on the FM190.


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

I'm 179cm and usually ride with medium size. In this case i have opted for a L size with 70mm stem. This is my first fat bike. I would like use the frame like a trail bike and i have preferred to choice a larger size. I don't know if my choice will be correct.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

revelcru said:


> Here's my build by the way: Deng Fu fm190 19.5" (L) frame (197x12) w/ DF fork (135x15), DF carbon 80mm wheelset w/ chosen hubs and Dillinger 5s (tubes for now), X1 crankset 1x10, X9 rear der, cheapo pedals and saddle for now, DF carbon sp 400mm / stem 120mm / bars 700mm. Will upgrade a couple things over time, but everything is working great so far. Did have to adjust the headset a couple times but it's fine now. Super quick/snappy and lighter than my XL Farley6 by 2 lbs. The frames seem to run big to me... I'm 6'2" 190 with 36" inseam and the L Fm190 with 120mm stem fits same as XL Farley w/ 110mm stem. Tons of tire clearance! Now I just need snow.
> 
> View attachment 962292
> View attachment 962293
> ...


Man, I miss those Buena Vista trails. I bet they're a blast on your Carbon fatty. Don't miss the wind though. Enjoy that beatiful ride.


----------



## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

I'd say this on sizing: 
If you're normally borderline, you're probably fine downsizing on a DF fm190. I'm 6'2" and 36" inseam and went with a L and 120mm stem, but I've always been somewhere between a XL and L, on my previous MTBs... Trek Farley6 (XL) / Niner Air9 RDO (L) / Specialized Enduro (XL) / Klein Attitude Comp (XL) / Cannondale f700 (L), but I ride a 57cm Felt cross bike and a 60cm Trek road bike. I guess I generally like my MTBs smaller and more nimble. If you want to ride the fm190 in summer as well again I feel that supports downsizing. If you are just going to use the fatbike for winter riding on snow, the bigger size probably makes sense.


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## SilverBullet (Dec 5, 2008)

dwilson said:


> So your saying at 6'2" the large felt big to you? I'm 5'11" and usually ride a L in a 29" hardtail (Niner) but think the 17.5" woulds be better on the FM190.


I have always ridden L Niner frames, and fit well on the L IP-19. I have a long back but shorter inseam so tend to like longer frames, which this is.

I found myself shortening the seat post more than I would on my Niner, and really felt splayed out over the frame.

Seems like you'd be fine either way, and could make adjustments with stem / layback post or what not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SilverBullet (Dec 5, 2008)

watermonkey said:


> Man, I miss those Buena Vista trails. I bet they're a blast on your Carbon fatty. Don't miss the wind though. Enjoy that beatiful ride.


It was 75 just East of Salida this weekend. Crazy.
We need snow!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Johnny_T (May 29, 2004)

*Problems with rear shifting in FM190?*

I have a few rides in on my FM190 now. So much fun to ride but I can't get the rear shifting dialed in. I noticed when I fed the cable through the internal routing that there was a lot of friction. I think it is making my shifting slow. I saw a thread on interally routed frames that use a hose that stretches and flexes and causes poor shifting. Anybody else having issues? Is there anyway to fix it? The other thread recommended drilling out the internal routing, removing the inner line and running housing all the was the the rear der. I think i may run external housing first and see if that clears up my problems. I was just curious if others are dealing with this.


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## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes, drill out the guides so you can run a full cable housing from shifter to derailleur. And make sure the length leaves you enough to turn the bars left or right.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dwilson said:


> So your saying at 6'2" the large felt big to you? I'm 5'11" and usually ride a L in a 29" hardtail (Niner) but think the 17.5" woulds be better on the FM190.


i am 6'2" 34" inseam, 19.5" with 50mm stem, 700mm bars, pretty much perfect fit.


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## Johnny_T (May 29, 2004)

jhmotard said:


> Yes, drill out the guides so you can run a full cable housing from shifter to derailleur. And make sure the length leaves you enough to turn the bars left or right.


Do you have to do anything so the housing doesn't bang around in there?


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## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

Just make sure you don't drill too big a hole, it should be snug but still allow room for slight movement.


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## jhmotard (Dec 23, 2013)

I have the FB02 190 rear spaced frame from Speedercycling and 65mm Nextie rims. Does anyone know the biggest tire I can fit on the rear? Bud will fit up front easy but Lou does not fit the rear.


----------



## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

Waiting the frameset, i can show you my wheels choice.
Yishunbike 85mm 2015
690 US $ with double cassette body (shimano+sram xd) flaps and spare spokes.
Very good rims quality (bearings i don't think😊).


----------



## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

vee H Billie and Kcnc Razor rotors


----------



## BonesNis (May 23, 2006)

Just finished my build. First ride will be tomorrow in -20 weather. A true test!

IP-010 Carbon Frame
Nextie 80mm Rims (tubeless)
SRAM XX1 Drivetrain (with Gripshifter)
Race Face Next SL Crank
Race Face 30T Chainring
RockShox Bluto (with ETR)
Magura MT 8 Brakes
Sapim Spokes/Nipples
Ritchey Super Logic Carbon Seat Post
Xpedo Spry pedals
Hope Fatsno (Front and Rear) 
PZ Carbon Seat Clamp
FSA Carbon Headset
45Nrth Dillinger 4 (studded)

26 lbs.


----------



## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

I've been reading this thread until my eyes have crossed. Tons of great info. Can someone sort out the 100 mm and 120mm bottom bracket confusion for me. I've seen both sizes listed on some sites and some don't say. Is there a different BB depending on the manufacturer or does it matter one or the other?


----------



## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

mortelec said:


> I've been reading this thread until my eyes have crossed. Tons of great info. Can someone sort out the 100 mm and 120mm bottom bracket confusion for me. I've seen both sizes listed on some sites and some don't say. Is there a different BB depending on the manufacturer or does it matter one or the other?


I have on order a frame with a 120bb BB30 I should be able to run a 203 Qfactor crank. since bearing are pressed into frame. this BB will be narrower than a 100mm BSA BB which have about 12mm thick threaded bearing screwed into each side.

100mm BSA Pro's:
frame can ship quickly, All Manufactures have this in stock
203 Q factor

100mm BSA Con's:
Possible less 5" tire clearance

100mm BB30 pros:
lower weight
203 Q factor

100mm BB30 Cons:
not in stock (hard to find)

120 BSA pros:
possibly larger tires

120 BSA Con's:
Qfactor 222mm to wide

120 BB30 pros:
possibly larger tires
203Qfactor
light weight

120 BB30 Con's:
Long wait not in stock

also Sram cranks only come in a 203 q factor
and if used with BB30 will require Wheel Manufacturing adapter
Spindle Dia 24mm

where RaceFace you can get a 202 Q factor spindle (Slang term 170 rear)
RaceFace you can get a 222 Q factor spindle (Slang term 190 rear)
Spindle Dia 30mm

Quite often 202Q factor cranks, will fit a 190mm rear

I am not an authority on fat bikes, and have not received my frame yet, so all of the above is theory, so take it with a grain of salt.

hope this helps


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Anyone who has ordered through ICAN or Yishunbike.... what are you seeing for delivery times from when you ordered? Specifically to central USA.

Thanks.


----------



## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

duggus said:


> Anyone who has ordered through ICAN or Yishunbike.... what are you seeing for delivery times from when you ordered? Specifically to central USA.
> 
> Thanks.


I ordered a set of their 85mm rims. Four days from order to my door in Anchorage.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

sryanak said:


> I ordered a set of their 85mm rims. Four days from order to my door in Anchorage.


Wow. From ICAN? I'm guessing it will be close for either. I was thinking more like 30 days, and I have a tough time waiting. Thanks.

Anyone else with a frameset?


----------



## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

BonesNis said:


> Just finished my build. First ride will be tomorrow in -20 weather. A true test!
> 
> IP-010 Carbon Frame
> Nextie 80mm Rims (tubeless)
> ...


Nice but lose the S-Works logos since its not an S-Works.


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Beauty bike BonesNis but I don't like the S-Works label either.


----------



## wardo78 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Crank fit question*

I have purchased an ICAN frame with 190mm rear spacing and a 100mm bottom bracket. Will a set of SRAM x5-9 clear the chain stays? If not, what are my options?

Thanks,
Wardo


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

lancelot said:


> Nice but lose the S-Works logos since its not an S-Works.


I didn't want to be a jerk and say that either... but when in Rome 

The S-works and Specialized decals on a china direct scream tacky. Not to mention Specializes is ICKY. But that's a whole nother can of worms!


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

just noticed that ICAN is selling through amazon now as well...


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

still trying to find a good wheelset (Chinese carbon) We have been building up a few LB 90mm sets but they aren't cheap after shipping and everything else.. anyone else have any input?


----------



## BonesNis (May 23, 2006)

duggus said:


> I didn't want to be a jerk and say that either... but when in Rome
> 
> The S-works and Specialized decals on a china direct scream tacky. Not to mention Specializes is ICKY. But that's a whole nother can of worms!


Ok, thanks guys.....I'll remove them right away!

Besides no one has had the forthought to leave the bike frame bare in all its glory. It's going to be sooo radical!

Thanks so setting me straight!:thumbsup:


----------



## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

Are the SN01 and the FM190 the same frame? 170 vs 190? Generic pics? Generic measuring? The confusion starts when the appear to use different size charts yet the look very similar. The head tube size seems to be quite a bit longer on FM190 than the SN01 in similar frame sizes. Anyone with input?
The SN01 comes in 16, 18, & 20 
The FM190 comes in 15.5, 17.5, 19.5, & 21


----------



## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

duggus said:


> Wow. From ICAN? I'm guessing it will be close for either. I was thinking more like 30 days, and I have a tough time waiting. Thanks.
> 
> Anyone else with a frameset?


Yishun.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Just pulled the trigger on a SN01 with the 90mm carbon wheelset. She said it will still ship out before the holiday and about 10 day EMS so we'll see. I'll report back if I have anything new to add to this massively awesome thread


----------



## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Who sells the SN01?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

5 days to iowa frame and wheels


----------



## thunderzy (Jul 23, 2010)

Just curious how these frames handle heavier riders and their longevity with said rider. I'm 230 lbs stripped, I would guess 240 fully dressed and packed. Any input is appreciated


----------



## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

I'll second that. I'm 290ish and 6'6". Wonder if I'd fit a 21" frame. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

FM190 update... warning!! We have had 8 built up over the past couple months. Latest medium frame to come in has a different headtube shape and angle and WILL NOT clear a bluto fork! We contacted wendy and she says "that is the new updated mold and geometry" we have not heard back as we ordered the same thing as before but now we dont know if shes saying that to cover a screw up or whether the factory legitimately changed the mold. We have not resolved anything yet and are waiting to hear back what they are going to do...


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

manchvegas said:


> FM190 update... warning!! We have had 8 built up over the past couple months. Latest medium frame to come in has a different headtube shape and angle and WILL NOT clear a bluto fork! We contacted wendy and she says "that is the new updated mold and geometry" we have not heard back as we ordered the same thing as before but now we dont know if shes saying that to cover a screw up or whether the factory legitimately changed the mold. We have not resolved anything yet and are waiting to hear back what they are going to do...


Thanks. Please keep us informed.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Who sells the SN01?


ICAN. Same as their 90mm carbon wheels.



thunderzy said:


> Just curious how these frames handle heavier riders and their longevity with said rider. I'm 230 lbs stripped, I would guess 240 fully dressed and packed. Any input is appreciated


I was told by Framed that their frames have a 280 lb weight limit. They are the same as these direct ones. I'm 6' 225 and ordered a SN01. I'm a pretty easy rider but do at times go straight through the woods on ATV trails over logs and other fallen junk. We'll see how it holds up. Hope I don't regret going from steel to carbon.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

mortelec said:


> Are the SN01 and the FM190 the same frame?


Not the same.


----------



## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

For the people who owns SNO1 and FM190.. which one would you recommend for heavier riders?.. I'm 220lbs without my gear.

Also, does 100mm bb fits 120mm bb spacing on SNO1?


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

I'm not sure if anyone owns both. But to me (armchair computer hypothetically) the SN01 looks to have beefier seat stays over the FM190. But I think both would be fine, they really seem so similar other than some spacing and slight geo differences.


----------



## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

Yeah.. I meant "or" not both.. haha..

What about the 120mm bb?.. would the thread on 100 bb will catch on 120?. sorry for a newb question. I was looking for 120 spacing bb but I didn't find any.


----------



## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

Qtep said:


> Yeah.. I meant "or" not both.. haha..
> 
> What about the 120mm bb?.. would the thread on 100 bb will catch on 120?. sorry for a newb question. I was looking for 120 spacing bb but I didn't find any.


Yes the threads work fine, is just that the plastic sleeve that connects the two won't be long enough, which if fine it's just there the help keep water/dirt from the bearings.. I just drilled an 1/8" hole in the bottom of the bb shell to let things drain..


----------



## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

I see.. btw, that's what I was referring to, the plastic sleeve.. so the crank spindle I guess is long enough.

I guess instead of drilling the bb shell, you could also use a rubber coupling just so you could connect both sleeve.


----------



## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Anyone seeing stand alone Chinese Carbon Fat Forks in Tapered/ThruAxle 15x150mm (bluto equiv)?

I've seen frames that are equipped with them, but none sold sep yet. I've seen one on ebay, but honestly I'd rather source from Alibaba and the like.


----------



## Argis (Feb 6, 2015)

WSUPolar said:


> Anyone seeing stand alone Chinese Carbon Fat Forks in Tapered/ThruAxle 15x150mm (bluto equiv)?
> 
> I've seen frames that are equipped with them, but none sold sep yet. I've seen one on ebay, but honestly I'd rather source from Alibaba and the like.


Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co., Ltd. - Seat Post,Cartridge Headset has one, the FK-019


----------



## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

This thread is mind boggling. There seem to be many places making these frames and all kind of variation. I don't understand why most are sticking to 135 front forks and not switching to 150. I can't seem to find anything with 190 rear and through axle in an XL, like 21" so it seems a little restricted to middle of the road sizing. It would be cool if there was a comprehensive post but I think that is just the nature of this beast... lots of makers with their own sites and slight variations. You just have to put the time in searching I guess.


----------



## Argis (Feb 6, 2015)

Cyclotoine said:


> This thread is mind boggling. There seem to be many places making these frames and all kind of variation. I don't understand why most are sticking to 135 front forks and not switching to 150. I can't seem to find anything with 190 rear and through axle in an XL, like 21" so it seems a little restricted to middle of the road sizing. It would be cool if there was a comprehensive post but I think that is just the nature of this beast... lots of makers with their own sites and slight variations. You just have to put the time in searching I guess.


Their 018 has the 197 rear end and you can switch the front fork to the FK-019


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Anyone with the SN01 or FM190 or similar: Did you happen to measure brake cable length front & rear?


----------



## Greggory85 (Jan 13, 2015)

SN01 and FM190 are not the same...well kinda they are...Different molds. Similar overall geo...

There is lots of variations, trade names, etc within the frame sets. Pics are often recycled. You have to look at the numbers...

I don't know why they do not include 150mm spacing fork. Building for 150mm makes for easier compatibility with bluto down the line. Then if you are running the carbon rims supplied by ican and dengfu, you'll have hubs for 135 mm and 190 mm and need spacers for the bluto...ugh.


----------



## Greggory85 (Jan 13, 2015)

manchvegas said:


> FM190 update... warning!! We have had 8 built up over the past couple months. Latest medium frame to come in has a different headtube shape and angle and WILL NOT clear a bluto fork! We contacted wendy and she says "that is the new updated mold and geometry" we have not heard back as we ordered the same thing as before but now we dont know if shes saying that to cover a screw up or whether the factory legitimately changed the mold. We have not resolved anything yet and are waiting to hear back what they are going to do...


They do have a fm197 frame which I do not think is compatible with bluto.


----------



## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

The frame selection has been confusing but this thread really helps. Anyway I pulled the trigger on a 19.5" FM190. Tracking already shows it in route.


----------



## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Anyone have a pic of a 21" FM190 built?


----------



## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

what crankset?


----------



## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

lancelot said:


> Anyone have a pic of a 21" FM190 built?


I contacted these guys because they showed a 21" frame with 150mm fork and I was stoked. I was surprised that the rims cost the same as a frame set!

Alas, they replied that 19" was the largest size. I haven't been able to find a 21"... so if you find one let me know.

26er carbon sonw bike frame carbon fat bike frame set carbon fat bike fork 150*15mm, View carbon fat bike fork 150*15mm, IPLAY Product Details from Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


----------



## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

Swerny said:


> I didn't want to start a new thread.
> 
> has anyone bought a Chinese carbon fatty fork only?
> 
> ...


I looked. I ended up with a Fatty shipped from the UK. It's stiffer than my wife's Carver fork. The Sarma Hoboy is on sale currently at $250.


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

slabber said:


> I looked. I ended up with a Fatty shipped from the UK. It's stiffer than my wife's Carver fork. The Sarma Hoboy is on sale currently at $250.


Thanks! Guess I'll save up for the On One


----------



## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

*My ICAN SN01 build in progress.*

My ICAN SN01 build in progress.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Thanks slowmo... looks sweet.


----------



## Duci (Jul 21, 2011)

My Ican SN01 build is finished! 
- Ican SN01 frame
- Ican 90mm carbon wheelset
- Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 4.8"
- Rock Shox Bluto 100mm
- Shimano XT 1-10 (11-41)
13.35kg = 29.43lbs


----------



## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

Nice bike+
Where have you find jumbo jim tires?


----------



## Duci (Jul 21, 2011)

friliver16 said:


> Nice bike+
> Where have you find jumbo jim tires?


Actually I promised not to tell because the guy was not allowed to sell them. Sorry...


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

No problem!


----------



## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

crankset?


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Looks good! Did you have a fat bike before. Just curious of your ride impressions.



Duci said:


> View attachment 964786
> 
> 
> My Ican SN01 build is finished!
> ...


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Duci said:


> My Ican SN01 build is finished!
> - Ican SN01 frame
> - Ican 90mm carbon wheelset
> - Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 4.8"
> ...


Did you use spacers for the Bluto then? I just ask because the front hub on their wheelset is a 135/15.

Thanks for the pic!


----------



## Duci (Jul 21, 2011)

bnelson said:


> crankset?


Sold also from Ican: Fat Bike Crankset 30T 172.5/175 mm Arm Length 120mm Bottom Bracket Fat Bike Crankset one speed 1x10-in Bicycle Crank & Chainwheel from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group


----------



## Duci (Jul 21, 2011)

duggus said:


> Did you use spacers for the Bluto then? I just ask because the front hub on their wheelset is a 135/15.
> 
> Thanks for the pic!


No, I asked them to build the front wheel with a 150/15 front hub. Was no problem for them.


----------



## Duci (Jul 21, 2011)

shoo said:


> Looks good! Did you have a fat bike before. Just curious of your ride impressions.


Acutally it's my first fat bike. I already built one for my friend and hat a short test ride. Mine will be tested this week - night fat bike session


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*Framed Alaskan carbon bikes and frames on sale*

I'm not trying to be a jerk or hijack the thread, but the Frame Alaskan carbon frames are on sale for $899:

Framed Alaskan Carbon Fat Bike Frame 2015

They also have complete X1, 1x10 bikes with either the Bluto or carbon fork at 40% off.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Bnystrom said:


> I'm not trying to be a jerk or hijack the thread, but the Frame Alaskan carbon frames are on sale for $899:
> 
> Framed Alaskan Carbon Fat Bike Frame 2015
> 
> They also have complete X1, 1x10 bikes with either the Bluto or carbon fork at 40% off.


I don't believe any of those completes are in stock, the frame has always been $899. When you add in the fork for $399 you are almost over what I got my complete frameSET as well as a carbon 90mm wheelset for, and headset, axles ($1440 SHIPPED).

And yeah that kind of is hijacking a thread about building the Chinese carbon frames. 



Duci said:


> No, I asked them to build the front wheel with a 150/15 front hub. Was no problem for them.


That sucks... I didn't even think to ask!

I'm not sure I'll ever want a Bluto though for snow riding, but would have been nice to have the hub ready for it if so. But not a big deal and who knows how long their hubs will last anyway.


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

duggus said:


> I don't believe any of those completes are in stock, the frame has always been $899. When you add in the fork for $399 you are almost over what I got my complete frameSET as well as a carbon 90mm wheelset for, and headset, axles ($1440 SHIPPED).
> 
> And yeah that kind of is hijacking a thread about building the Chinese carbon frames.


I didn't realize that "The House" site is basically BS; thanks for cluing me in. The only reason I posted it was that there was a lot of interest in this frame, but it's no longer available direct from China to North American buyers.

FWIW, the bikes are supposed to be available as of today. I've asked and will report back if it's actually possible to buy one.

UPDATE: The bikes are now listed as being in-stock, in case anyone is interested.


----------



## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

I contacted one of these seller and was unable to get a clear answer. They have rims for sale and I inquired thinking I'd buy rims and build my own wheels. The seller quoted $550 for the rims. I was a little surprise at this cost and I asked if they were complete wheels. He responded that yes he had rims in stock and ready to ship. Of course he did not understand what I was asking. It appears many people are buying complete wheels. Does $550 seem like the complete wheels price? Also I still haven't found a 21" frame but will keep looking.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Cyclotoine said:


> Does $550 seem like the complete wheels price?


Could be depending which ones and from where. The ICAN 90mm wheelset I got for $625.


----------



## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Anyone have a extra FM190 rear 12mm x 197mm thru axle they could part with? I can buy it or send mine to you once I receive mine. Trying to build a bike but I don't have the axle.


----------



## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Velobike said:


> That is correct.
> 
> I figured folk here who are savvy enough to be building a carbon bike from scratch would have sufficient bike knowledge to know that you can get thicker crown races, or know someone who would knock one up.
> 
> Did I overestimate the forum members?


My crown race didn`t go all the way down on the tapered carbon fork tube/steerer tube (unsure about the english word). About 2mm gap, so i made a spacer on my mini lathe, for the crown to rest upon. Everythiing works great, even after some solid riding and beating. Where lies the danger in doing so?


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Anyone with the SN01 frameset and free headset know if the headset & crown race comes installed? I'm guessing no.


----------



## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

I own Ican sn03 and the free Ican headset. It was not preinstalled, and the crown didnt go all the way down on my headtube (correct name of the tube on top of the fork?). I made a spacer on my lathe, but aparenty this is dangerous. Se previous posts.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

I think I'll take it to the shop then and have them install that with the proper tool, I don't have one. 

Steer tube or steerer tube would be correct, head tube is what it goes into :thumbsup:


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

lancelot said:


> Anyone have a extra FM190 rear 12mm x 197mm thru axle they could part with? I can buy it or send mine to you once I receive mine. Trying to build a bike but I don't have the axle.


Where did you get your frame? Just curious so I make sure to request them if I need to!


----------



## BonesNis (May 23, 2006)

*Conversion Kit*

I have an IP-010 frame with 190mm x 12mm thru axle. Does anyone know if my Hope Fatsno 190mm XD quick release can be converted to 190mm x12mm thru axle? If so, do you have a part number?

I contact Hope several times, but didn't get a response :madman:. I guess business is really good that they don't have to reply to customers.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

msedbaue said:


> Where did you get your frame? Just curious so I make sure to request them if I need to!


I got the frame from a couple of guys here on MTBR. They bought the frames from Wendy at Dengfu. I guess the axles are sold separately and have been on backorder. I ended up buying a Paragon axle. It should fit but will confirm in a couple days when it comes in.


----------



## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

I recently joined the club, I ordered the XMI 010 frame, which I pray is not being held up on the west coast with the strike going on. Anyway, I ordered the Novatec 190x12, and 150x15 TA hubs as well, does anyone know where I can get measurements to calculate spoke lengths? Thanks.


----------



## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

msedbaue said:


> Where did you get your frame? Just curious so I make sure to request them if I need to!


Yep, seems like the Chinese companies (at least Deng Fu) include axles with the wheels, not with the frames. Figured it was like the US where the axles are mostly included with the frames/forks. Placing a separate order for axles after you get your frame takes a painful amount of time (you'll go crazy checking the shipping status!!), and there aren't a ton of US suppliers.


----------



## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

@waadate - You frame shouldn't be held up by shipping issues. The frames travel by commercial air. 

@revelcru, msedbaue - Iplay sold me axles with my frame, but I had to pay for them separately.


----------



## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

I just need a chain but other than that it looks pretty good.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

can't tell with the filter you used, but what bars are you using and are they the same red ano as hope? sorry, but your bike looks killer too


----------



## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

fishwrinkle said:


> can't tell with the filter you used, but what bars are you using and are they the same red ano as hope? sorry, but your bike looks killer too


The bars are Race Face Atlas and they are darker than Hope red.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Slowmopopo said:


> I just need a chain but other than that it looks pretty good.


Can you post a pic without a filter?

Looks good, my guess is it'll look better without a filter


----------



## Argis (Feb 6, 2015)

SLOWMOPOPO - That is real nice. Great job.


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Slowmopopo said:


> I just need a chain but other than that it looks pretty good.


Hot!

Build specs?


----------



## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

manchvegas said:


> FM190 update... warning!! We have had 8 built up over the past couple months. Latest medium frame to come in has a different headtube shape and angle and WILL NOT clear a bluto fork! We contacted wendy and she says "that is the new updated mold and geometry" we have not heard back as we ordered the same thing as before but now we dont know if shes saying that to cover a screw up or whether the factory legitimately changed the mold. We have not resolved anything yet and are waiting to hear back what they are going to do...


UPDATE!! Wendy from dengfu is claiming that the MEDIUM size frame has slightly different mold than the other sizes... I'm calling bullcrap but now we are sitting on 2 medium sized frames and will have to make the bluto forks work with crown race spacers etc...


----------



## dwilson (Dec 8, 2006)

manchvegas said:


> FM190 update... warning!! We have had 8 built up over the past couple months. Latest medium frame to come in has a different headtube shape and angle and WILL NOT clear a bluto fork! We contacted wendy and she says "that is the new updated mold and geometry" we have not heard back as we ordered the same thing as before but now we dont know if shes saying that to cover a screw up or whether the factory legitimately changed the mold. We have not resolved anything yet and are waiting to hear back what they are going to do...


Any additional information on this? I have a Fm190 en route and plan on using a Bluto with it. Pictures would be great.

Thanks


----------



## dwilson (Dec 8, 2006)

How close is it? Can you post a picture?


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Wow... nice build Slowmo.

SO... I was *AMAZED* yesterday that my ICAN SNO1 frameset showed up. I'm in the North center of the US... and JUST got my tracking number last Thursday! Wowza that was fast. It beat the majority of the components I ordered to my door. A+ on shipping. Frame looks solid and good.

kmjelle - about the crown race. I did notice it went on tight but that seemed pretty normal to me from builds in the past. I would take your spacer out and have it properly pressed on.


----------



## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

That was a very quick turn around. From what site did you order it?

This is 120mm space bb correct.. what crankset are you thinking of using?


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Qtep said:


> That was a very quick turn around. From what site did you order it?
> 
> This is 120mm space bb correct.. what crankset are you thinking of using?


Yeah the shipping time is crazy! I just had to double check and yeah, 6 days ago I got tracking and was still in Shenzhen. I ordered from ICAN here: SN01 Fat bike frame BB shell 120mm - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

Melody was who I was conversing with. She was super helpful. [email protected]

This is the 120 spaced BB which I like because then it's not all spacer'd out. I ordered the RaceFace Turbine Cinch and a 26t. Also ordered the carbon wheelset which I didn't get but am guessing it's not far behind.

All of China is on their holiday though, so you won't get any response until after Feb 25th.


----------



## ciscolangot (Nov 24, 2009)

*crown race*

anybody seen this issue with carbon fork? I am trying to install the crown race but it is too tight. I installed the same crown race to a bluto and it went through fine.

If you had this issue before, what did you do or recommend doing?

thanks.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

I just posted about that like 3 comments back 

Do you have an actual crown race setting tool? They are tight but they go on.


----------



## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

If you dont have the tool, you can make a cut with a saw to the disc, but it is an extreme solution.


----------



## ciscolangot (Nov 24, 2009)

duggus said:


> I just posted about that like 3 comments back
> 
> Do you have an actual crown race setting tool? They are tight but they go on.


I don't. I just have a PVC and a mallet. Will try it again. My first time installing a crown race on a carbon fork and I am just worried. If I can't, will take it to the shop. thanks.

build progress, almost there:


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

I know I'm gonna catch crap for this, but with cartridge bearing headsets, there is no reason not to use a cutting wheel and cut a slit in the crown race. Make sure to file the burrs off before installation. I've done this on all my carbon forks, and many of my non-carbon forks.

I was just talking to the owner of a local bike shop and he concurred that there was no harm.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

ciscolangot said:


> I don't. I just have a PVC and a mallet. Will try it again. My first time installing a crown race on a carbon fork and I am just worried. If I can't, will take it to the shop. thanks.
> View attachment 965833


No worries... I do the same thing with a pipe that fits. Basically all the tools they sell you are anyway 

But... what I actually did to get mine on the carbon fork was take a permanent marker I happened to have (plastic one so it won't damage) and used that as a tap to slowly tap all the way around the race. It made its way nice and flat doing that, and didn't worry me as much as smacking the tube on it harder. I used no grease.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

nbwallace said:


> I know I'm gonna catch crap for this, but with cartridge bearing headsets, there is no reason not to use a cutting wheel and cut a slit in the crown race. Make sure to file the burrs off before installation. I've done this on all my carbon forks, and many of my non-carbon forks.
> 
> I was just talking to the owner of a local bike shop and he concurred that there was no harm.


my crown race from dengfu actually came with slit, so no problem there. then i got this 5mm crown race (no slit) and it would not fit. i ended up sanding bit of the inside diameter and it went right in. with little bit of hammering that is .


----------



## ciscolangot (Nov 24, 2009)

brankulo said:


> my crown race from dengfu actually came with slit, so no problem there. then i got this 5mm crown race (no slit) and it would not fit. i ended up sanding bit of the inside diameter and it went right in. with little bit of hammering that is .


thanks guys. 1. will try it first with hammer and PVC again today. 2. then will try sanding the inside diameter and if that doesn't work I'll just cut a slit .


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

in past I have used this system


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## ciscolangot (Nov 24, 2009)

I ordered the Neco headset from the same vendor where I got the frame from. Might as well check if I can get another crown race as above or cut a slit. I wonder if CC IS52/40 race will work. thanks for the tip!


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> Can you post a pic without a filter?
> 
> Looks good, my guess is it'll look better without a filter


That's not a filter. That's just the way the picture came out. I will post a picture with specs soon.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

ciscolangot said:


> I ordered the Neco headset from the same vendor where I got the frame from. Might as well check if I can get another crown race as above or cut a slit. I wonder if CC IS52/40 race will work. thanks for the tip!


The race is supposed to fit tight. It is made this way so it doesn't spin on the fork tube. If it spins it will damage the fork. I used a soft mallet and tapped around the edges of the race until it was seated. A piece of PVC might work even better.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

If anyone needs a 197 thru axle for a FM190 or wants a nice upgrade the Paragon Machine Works axle fits perfectly.


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Anyone have the sn01 with 120mm bluto on it? Thinking of swapping my parts from Motobecane Night Train Bullet over to a sn01 and want to make sure everything works well.


----------



## thunderzy (Jul 23, 2010)

Negotiator50 said:


> Anyone have the sn01 with 120mm bluto on it? Thinking of swapping my parts from Motobecane Night Train Bullet over to a sn01 and want to make sure everything works well.


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

i think a 120 might rake it out a bit too much for my taste.. ive got a 100 bluto on my sn01 and find it spot on geometry wise..


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

hiss2 said:


> i think a 120 might rake it out a bit too much for my taste.. ive got a 100 bluto on my sn01 and find it spot on geometry wise..


Does the Bluto clear the down tube on SN01 or do I need to get a different crown race? Thanks for your help.


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

Clears fine using their headset


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

hiss2 said:


> Clears fine using their headset


Great. Thank you.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Hey Hiss2, did your headset basically drop in? Its weird to me as I've always needed to have them pressed in on other bikes. Did you guys use carbon compound around the headset when you put it in?


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

Yeah it wasn't super tight, but not sloppy loose.. I used regular grease, snugged it down and it's been fine since..


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## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

what length spindle on crank? what bb


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

I think you probably need a 190, but don't know for sure, i used used a custom one.. See my post in this thread a couple months ago..


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bnelson said:


> what length spindle on crank? what bb


190 and 197 rear use the same BB spindle. If you have a 100mm BB you will have more spacers than a 120mm bottom bracket.


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## ENSANE (Nov 14, 2014)

lancelot said:


> If anyone needs a 197 thru axle for a FM190 or wants a nice upgrade the Paragon Machine Works axle fits perfectly.


is that this one? Item #:	SH003


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Yes sir


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## skiinnyboy (Mar 12, 2013)

What are thoughts of the new 45NRTH Dunderbeist tire (4.6) fitting the back of the xmiplay ip-10 190mm frame? Think it will fit on an 80mm rim?


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Here's a pic of my freshly built 21" FM190. Pretty much done except I need a longer rear brake hose. Hopefully I can get it sorted quick because the snow is flying. Probably the heaviest build on here at just under 30lbs with pedals.

21" FM190 w/ Bluto 
Nextie 90mm w/I9 hubs
XX1 drivetrain w/ Gripshift
Next SL crank
Hope M4 brakes w/ 2 piece rotors
Specialized Blacklite dropper
Specialized Phenom Ti saddle
Enve DH bar
Thomson stem
Studded Bud & Lou tubeless
Shimano DX pedals


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

and Bluto 

Nice bike lancelot


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

brankulo said:


> my crown race from dengfu actually came with slit, so no problem there. then i got this 5mm crown race (no slit) and it would not fit. i ended up sanding bit of the inside diameter and it went right in. with little bit of hammering that is .


I absolutely disagree with this. Splitting the ring allows it to expand and it will no longer fit the bearing properly. It also allows the race to move on the fork, which is exactly the opposite of what you want. This is a hack "solution" at best. Any shop that would recommend this, rather than fixing it properly would lose my business in a heartbeat!

If you cannot seat the race, it means that the fork steerer is oversize at the crown. The correct way to fix this is to have the steerer seat reamed to to the correct diameter. Better shops will have the tool required to do this. Barring that, look for mold lines that may not have been sanded down after the fork was removed from the mold. If there are any, you can *carefully *take them down with a file or a sanding block. However, this would be a last-ditch solution if you absolutely cannot find a shop to ream the steerer.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

lancelot said:


> Here's a pic of my freshly built 21" FM190. Pretty much done except I need a longer rear brake hose. Hopefully I can get it sorted quick because the snow is flying. Probably the heaviest build on here at just under 30lbs with pedals.
> 
> 21" FM190
> Nextie 90mm w/I9 hubs
> ...


How does the XL feel? People have been saying they run big. Im 6'4" so Im thinking the XL is the right route. Thoughts?


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

One thing that helps if you're using PVC pipe is to put a hose clamp around the end of it. That reinforces it and keeps it from splitting.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

I'm 6'4" and the XL is big. I wish I had a little more standover but it's doable. I really like the TT length though which is why I bought it. Overall the bike has similar geo as my last two 907's which I like. I'm sure it will be fine for me.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

lancelot said:


> I'm 6'4" and the XL is big. I wish I had a little more standover but it's doable. I really like the TT length though which is why I bought it. Overall the bike has similar geo as my last two 907's which I like. I'm sure it will be fine for me.


I was looking at their frame geometry and the standover compared to my superfly and its actually less (per their chart). And the TT length is also very close. Im thinking its an XL for me. I am going to go with 725mm bars (next 3/4 riser) and a shorter stem to get a more upright position.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

lancelot said:


> I'm 6'4" and the XL is big. I wish I had a little more standover but it's doable. I really like the TT length though which is why I bought it. Overall the bike has similar geo as my last two 907's which I like. I'm sure it will be fine for me.


I would also be very interested in seeing more pictures! Crank arm clearance in particular if and whether you went with 170 or 190 spacing on your crank.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

I like wide bars and short stems. I'm running the Enve's at 780 ( same as two other bikes I own).


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

I went 190 on the cranks. I'm a big dude so q-factor has never bothered me. I actually prefer a wide q. There is a decent amount of clearance. Probably about 1/2" each side. Pretty much everything was brought over from my 190 907 except wheels.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Thanks for the information!


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## daniel harvey (Jul 23, 2007)

I think the crown race is part of the fork. Check it out, but with my fork, the carbon seats perfectly into the lower bearing. Good luck.


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

So for the FM190 frame.. you can go either 190 or 170 space crank even though the frame is 190/197 spaced at the back?.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

I believe so. I think I read some guys doing it. I have a 190 spaced crank on mine and crank arms have quite a bit of clearance.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Delete


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## Kenttu (Sep 8, 2014)

Yes, crown race is not needed, because head tupe has chamfer by itself. The chamfer quality was not so good so I but thin layer 2-component chemical metal (like epoxy) and greased lower bearing and but it on place. Also XX1 cranks need 2mm spacer on non drive side to work. So now there is 2,5mm gap between cranks and chain stays.

So here is mine build:


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Kenttu said:


> Yes, crown race is not needed, because head tupe has chamfer by itself. The chamfer quality was not so good so I but thin layer 2-component chemical metal (like epoxy) and greased lower bearing and but it on place.


Wow, you really have a lot to learn about building bikes! There is a reason why headsets come with crown races; they're not an optional, throw-away part. Carbon fiber has very low abrasion resistance and you've set yourself up to ruin your fork in short order. The small amount of JB Weld or whatever you put on the crown will not protect it, as it will have gotten squeezed out as you tightened the headset.

Do yourself a favor and find a shop to build and maintain your bikes until you learn to do it properly.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

She's starting to come together.

:thumbsup:


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Qtep said:


> So for the FM190 frame.. you can go either 190 or 170 space crank even though the frame is 190/197 spaced at the back?.


not sure this applies to all the cranks but for rf next cranks yes. 170 clears the stays even with protective boots on. i have had plenty of rides on mine with zero stay/crank or stay/ heel interference.


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

brankulo said:


> not sure this applies to all the cranks but for rf next cranks yes. 170 clears the stays even with protective boots on. i have had plenty of rides on mine with zero stay/crank or stay/ heel interference.


Thanks.


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## Kenttu (Sep 8, 2014)

Bnystrom: As you see on previous page separate aluminum crown race is not possible to instal on that fork. That fork has integrated carbon crown race itself on mold. Like in this lynskey fork:








The chamfer surface was little bit rough so therefore I used that 2-component glue.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Kenttu said:


> Bnystrom: As you see on previous page separate aluminum crown race is not possible to instal on that fork. That fork has integrated carbon crown race itself on mold. Like in this lynskey fork:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough and I apologize for coming down on you so hard. Still, it strikes me as a bad design decision and I'm surprised to see Lynskey doing it. Perhaps they're using a basalt seat, which would at least provide better abrasion resistance.

Did your fork manufacturer provide any details about the fork construction?


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## ENSANE (Nov 14, 2014)

How do you guys CALCULATE your spoke lengths with the Nextie rims? All the spoke calculators I find require a name brand for the rims to do the calculations


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

is this a fat fork? i do like the internal routing. do you have image of entire thing?


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Contact the manufacturer and ask for the ERD (Effective Rim Diameter) of the rims. Better yet, if you already have the rims, measure the ERD yourself (this requires simple tools that you can make). Every spoke length calculator I've seen allows you to enter the ERD directly. 

One caveat is that fattie rims that have the spokes in two rows instead of one require compensation. Some spoke length calculators have that option, but some don't. In a pinch, you can measure the distance between the rows of holes, subtract it from the width between the hub flanges, then calculate the spoke length as if it was for a single row rim.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

I've installed several forks with integrated crowns. That one definitely didn't look as nice as others I've seen. I would be more worried about the 2.5mm crank arm clearance. I usually don't feel comfortable with anything less than 7-8mm. Seems crazy but if you get a tiny bit of flex from crank and or frame you'll rub for sure.


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## ENSANE (Nov 14, 2014)

Bnystrom said:


> Contact the manufacturer and ask for the ERD (Effective Rim Diameter) of the rims. Better yet, if you already have the rims, measure the ERD yourself (this requires simple tools that you can make). Every spoke length calculator I've seen allows you to enter the ERD directly.
> 
> One caveat is that fattie rims that have the spokes in two rows instead of one require compensation. Some spoke length calculators have that option, but some don't. In a pinch, you can measure the distance between the rows of holes, subtract it from the width between the hub flanges, then calculate the spoke length as if it was for a single row rim.


What Spoke calculator do you like?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

duggus said:


> She's starting to come together.
> 
> View attachment 966824


Looking good


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## BonesNis (May 23, 2006)

Nice bike except for the colour....Green looks so "icky"


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

lancelot said:


> Here's a pic of my freshly built 21" FM190. Pretty much done except I need a longer rear brake hose. Hopefully I can get it sorted quick because the snow is flying. Probably the heaviest build on here at just under 30lbs with pedals.
> 
> 21" FM190 w/ Bluto
> Nextie 90mm w/I9 hubs
> ...


Nice build lancelot! Glad everything worked out.

Optical illusion or are your bud&lou really bigger than your moto tires?!


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Thanks to you revelcru! The tires aren't quite as wide as the moto but way taller.


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## acetechm3 (Apr 8, 2010)




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## acetechm3 (Apr 8, 2010)

Almost ready to build


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

acetechm3 said:


> Cow Bike?! :thumbsup:
> 
> good idea!


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

Bluto with red decals ready to go.:thumbsup:


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## Kenttu (Sep 8, 2014)

lancelot said:


> I've installed several forks with integrated crowns. That one definitely didn't look as nice as others I've seen. I would be more worried about the 2.5mm crank arm clearance. I usually don't feel comfortable with anything less than 7-8mm. Seems crazy but if you get a tiny bit of flex from crank and or frame you'll rub for sure.


Yes you right. I really don't recommend these cracks on this frame, but because I allready have those I had to try. As I said earlier, I had to add shim washers also to non drive side, between bottom bracket bearing and crank to get same clearance to non drive side.... I have ridden over hundred kilometers and luckily it has worked well.


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

wonderful


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

BonesNis said:


> Nice bike except for the colour....Green looks so "icky"


<< Insert opinions are like - a s s h o l e s - everyone's got one quote here >>

It's a brighter neon green flake vinyl in person. Looks awesome with the carbon. Personally I can't stand the color red on black and would never own a red bike, but some people love it and that's just my stupid opinion.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

ENSANE said:


> What Spoke calculator do you like?


I typically use Spocalc, but I've tried a few others and they all work OK. When I built the fattie wheels, I think I used a couple of calculators just to make sure that they produced similar results. In one case, I could enter the spoke offset, but in the other, I had to make the calculations I explained above. Both ways, I got the same results, so I knew I had it right.


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

duggus said:


> << Insert opinions are like - a s s h o l e s - everyone's got one quote here >>
> 
> It's a brighter neon green flake vinyl in person. Looks awesome with the carbon. Personally I can't stand the color red on black and would never own a red bike, but some people love it and that's just my stupid opinion.


I HATE red on bikes as well. I've had to learn to live with it in some instances. I like the green.


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

Hi all, I'm new here but a long time member/poster over on roadbikereview.com.

As a former shop rat for 10 years in my younger days, and a roadie looking for a way to get outside even on snowy winter days here in the midwest I decided to jump onto the Chinese Carbon Fatty bandwagon. 

I just received box 1 of 2 from Yishun Bike. I ordered their semi-complete build kit direct by contacting customer service via email. The kit I ordered consisted of: FM079 frameset (17"), 30 tooth crankset & BB, carbon wheelset, tires, tubes and axles. 

I ordered on Feb. 11th. Yishun shipped on the 14th and I received the first box containing the frameset, crank & BB today. I really hope the wheels and tires show up tomorrow! 

My initial impressions of the frameset are very good. It looks well made to me. I'll post some pictures in future posts and also some weights of parts. If anyone has any questions I'll be glad to provide any answers I can.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

zero - did they give you tracking? I found that if I put the tracking number in directly on the USPS website it gives more detailed tracking. If you are in the US I mean. My frameset showed up first and wheels second as well. I'm almost wondering if the wheels don't come from a separate factory for all the online companies (ICAN, Yishun, etc.). Anyway, mine showed up 3 days after the frameset.


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

Wow. My stuff shipped the same day and I haven't received anything. Tracking was last updated on Feb 13th, despatch from sorting center. But mine was from xmiplay. USPS has always been unreliable in my experience anyway. And EMS seems to be bad for other people. How long has actual shipping taken for others, or rather, when should I start asking questions?


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

waadate said:


> Wow. My stuff shipped the same day and I haven't received anything. Tracking was last updated on Feb 13th, despatch from sorting center. But mine was from xmiplay. USPS has always been unreliable in my experience anyway. And EMS seems to be bad for other people. How long has actual shipping taken for others, or rather, when should I start asking questions?


Last shipment was accepted at facility in Shezhen on Feb 6, sat there for 11 days, another 2 days in San Fran, 2 more days to small town, so feb 21 delivery. The variability comes in how long it sits in Shezhen waiting to ship. Sometimes 2 days, sometimes 2 weeks.


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

Well knowing that I guess, maybe on the bright side I might see an update on the tracking this week. I hope so anyway. All the pics are getting me pumped up.


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

doggus - Yes I did get tracking. Thanks for the heads up to check USPS tracking...I didn't think of doing that. Just checked and my second box must be sitting at JFK waiting to be processed because it left China on the same date as the 1st box and hasn't updated beyond that. So, sadly for me, I won't be getting my wheels tomorrow.  Hope they arrive by the end of the week.

I'm pretty sure that everything in my order came from the same factory or distribution center because the box I received is marked 1/2 in sharpie on the outside.


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

waadate - I wouldn't get too worried yet. Check your tracking # with USPS as doggus recommended (If you're in the US). It will update once they process through customs in the US. My theory is that these EMS shipments probably arrive in the US (in my case JFK was the point of entry) and then sit for however long it takes for customs to process them. My 1st box arrived the day after it processed through customs. (I'm in Indianapolis.)


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

*Yishun FM079 pics and frameset weights*

Unboxed:








Headset weight:








Uncut fork weight:








17" frameset weight:








Temporary partial assembly (awaiting my wheelset to clear customs):


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

USPS says it was processed through sort facility, xiamen ems china on Feb 13. According to USPS it's still in pre shipment. I'm just being impatient.


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

waadate said:


> USPS says it was processed through sort facility, xiamen ems china on Feb 13. According to USPS it's still in pre shipment. I'm just being impatient.


I don't think it's likely in pre shipment though...the box I received (1 of 2) had the same info listed: it was processed through sort facility Xiamen EMS, China on Feb. 14th and then on the 23rd it was listed as "processed through sort Facility ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)" and it was delivered the next day. So I'm guessing yours is sitting in the US waiting to clear customs.

But, YES, as Tom Petty sang, "The waaaaaiting is the hardest part!"


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## BonesNis (May 23, 2006)

duggus said:


> << Insert opinions are like - a s s h o l e s - everyone's got one quote here >>
> 
> It's a brighter neon green flake vinyl in person. Looks awesome with the carbon. Personally I can't stand the color red on black and would never own a red bike, but some people love it and that's just my stupid opinion.


duggus wrote:

"I didn't want to be a jerk and say that either... but when in Rome

The S-works and Specialized decals on a china direct scream tacky. Not to mention Specializes is ICKY. But that's a whole nother can of worms! "

For someone who throws their "insert" opinions around loosely, you sure are quick to quote and add yours!...."But when in Rome"

oh by the way, two green rabbits humping each other isn't tacky, what are you ten?


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Those of you who have the 120 BB 197 rear frames, what did you run for spacers with a cinch crank? I had assumed with a 120 BB I didn't need any between the BB cups but something is off.

BonesNis... seriously you're a douche. You didn't see my little smiley face and poke fun comment? And also we have pet house rabbits that have a Facebook page with 1500 followers and my riding group knows that so that's where the amusing rabbits tie in, ya uptight douche.

- while we're calling names like 10 year olds


----------



## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

duggus said:


> Those of you who have the 120 BB 197 rear frames, what did you run for spacers with a cinch crank? I had assumed with a 120 BB I didn't need any between the BB cups but something is off.
> 
> BonesNis... seriously you're a douche. You didn't see my little smiley face and poke fun comment? And also we have pet house rabbits that have a Facebook page with 1500 followers and my riding group knows that so that's where the amusing rabbits tie in, ya uptight douche.
> 
> - while we're calling names like 10 year olds


If you have too much side to side play you need to place shims in between the BB cups and the BB. The crank should come with them in the box. I have two on each side.


----------



## BonesNis (May 23, 2006)

Apology accepted! :thumbsup:


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Slowmopopo said:


> If you have too much side to side play you need to place shims in between the BB cups and the BB. The crank should come with them in the box. I have two on each side.


I think I got it now. One 2.5mm BB spacer on non-drive side and then the 11.5mm arm spacer on drive side. I have to run to the bike shop tomorrow and get the tool to tighten the cinch to the chainring, didn't realize I needed that. Of course I have all the tools in the world other than a Shimano ISIS BB tool


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

zero85ZEN said:


> Unboxed:
> View attachment 967228
> 
> 
> ...


How's the finish quality on the frameset? It looks pretty good in the pictures.


----------



## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

Bnystrom said:


> How's the finish quality on the frameset? It looks pretty good in the pictures.


IMO the finish is very good! I was pleasantly surprised. Better than I expected. I'll post some better detail shots over the next couple days.


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## carbonguy (Dec 12, 2012)

Hi,
This is in reply to http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/chinese-carbon-fatty-889515-87.html#post11732551

One measurement I'd like to know is what the distance from the rear axle to the front of the bottom bracket area (the "chain-stay brace"?) ? It looks like the diameter at the chain stay pretty much continues as a full circle. Is that true, or does it 'flatten out' near the front of the brace? I am trying to estimate what size tire / rim will fit in there.

Or, if you have the mechanical drawing of the rear, that'd be even better.


----------



## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

I used the already-in-place clear plastic cable guide to thread the cable for the rear gear derailleur, and remowed the plastic guide afterwards. Do these frames have some kind of internal wire guide tube, so that I can remove the old wire and thread a new one, without any trouble? Or will I have to thread the clear plastic guide cable back onto the wire, before I remove the wire and replace it with a new one?


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## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

if you want to run full hoseing you can remove fork and thread in frm bottom ang grab at head tube are you surethe plastic tube is for cable


----------



## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

I did not install wire hose all the way, only "outside" the frame. The white/clear plastic cable that came pre-installed.


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## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

i discarded white cable and ran housing all the way there was not a cable stop on the frame


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Sooner or later you will have to replace the wire and housing. How would you do it without the white cable as guide?


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## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

see my previuos post it ivolves removing the fork and treading housing in from bottom and threading through top spots


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

I'm about ready to scream with this internal cable routing. There's absolutely no room around the cable to attach a piece of tape to the plastic guides from the factory.


----------



## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

see above post taking fork off and grabing houseing was only way i could get it. it is pretty straight forwarg once fork is removed


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Yeah, I have the headset all preloaded and set up so would rather not. I was reading online some have been successful by turning the top tube vertical, then putting some thread down through and a vaccuum cleaner on the other end, pulls thread out, then tie other end to the wire cable, pull through, then pull housing on.

I wish I would have read up ahead of time. I was stupidly trying to attach the housing to the factory plastic and pull it through. Not realizing the proper way is to run your actual wire through that tubing, then pull that tubing out leaving the wire, then putting the housing on with the cable as a guide. Seems so simple now but unless you know at the time it's not. Live and learn.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

just screw off the cover to internal cable hole.alot easyer


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

mortenste said:


> just screw off the cover to internal cable hole.alot easyer


There's no cover.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Ok sorry,thought it was the same frame as kmjelle showed.


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## 1strongone1 (Jan 13, 2004)

duggus said:


> There's no cover.


Take a dremel and make the hole a little larger, that's what I did and it worked well.


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

For those wondering on shipping heres how mine progressed. Ordered from Velo Carbon but it came from Miracle bikes. I think its a total crap shoot with these frames but it looks great. FM190


----------



## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

+
i tried that but found too many holes in frame it is not that hard to redo headset at least in my case it will save alotof agrivation


----------



## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

Fm190


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

mortelec said:


> For those wondering on shipping heres how mine progressed. Ordered from Velo Carbon but it came from Miracle bikes. I think its a total crap shoot with these frames but it looks great. FM190


Tracking number still hasn't updated. I think it would be much easier if I just knew WHERE it was.


----------



## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)




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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

waadate, it's a total crapshoot...my wheels where just processed through customs last night, but my frame made it through 3 days earlier. I really believe it's just packages piling up behind customs that accounts for the "black hole" of no updates and no information until they are entered in USPS's tracking system. 

:madman:


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

I totally believe it, between the customs black hole and usps awful tracking system, it could be out for delivery for all I know.


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## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

I see on some of these designs the through axle plates or dropouts are bolted on with a couple tiny little bolts sandwiching a sliver of carbon. I am no engineer but it doesn't look all that sturdy and the whole point of a through axle is a stiffer more secure system. My concern as that a lot of force is transferred to this little bit of carbon and I wonder about the long term (5 year outlook) durability of these frames. Anyone care to comment or allay my concern? 

I am still waiting for a 21" frame set with 190/150 spacing and 120mm BB... there is no obvious offering I have found that meets all these criteria. I am also noticing steep headtubes and short top tubes. I would like a carbon 5" tire bikes, but I like the trail geometry of my 2014 mukluk. the 68.5 headtube and long TT make it awesome for descending. I hopped on a Yampa and the bike immediately felt awful like it didn't know what it was. It's trail handling was awful. Anyone who has really searched around, do you know which is the most slack? I am tempted by the titanium frames where I can actually spec the whole thing. I can just send them the geometry and the spacing etc and they will build it.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

For people who are buying the FM190s and Carbon fiber wheels, what companies have you gone through? I have emailed Dengfu and Im having a hard time getting a response.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

waadate said:


> I totally believe it, between the customs black hole and usps awful tracking system, it could be out for delivery for all I know.


That's weird, for mine USPS gave all tracking info just like the EMS tracking... customs, etc. Then showed the sorting centers close to me and out for delivery.



Cyclotoine said:


> I see on some of these designs the through axle plates or dropouts are bolted on with a couple tiny little bolts sandwiching a sliver of carbon. I am no engineer but it doesn't look all that sturdy and the whole point of a through axle is a stiffer more secure system. My concern as that a lot of force is transferred to this little bit of carbon and I wonder about the long term (5 year outlook) durability of these frames. Anyone care to comment or allay my concern?.


I'm not sure on others, but on mine (SN01/ICAN) that is just the derailleur hanger. The actual axle goes right through the frame.

One caution note on those who are about to build and while we are talking about little bolts - be careful if you zip tie your cables to the factory metal cable guides. They are secured by very small basically rivets that can pull out easily. I was trying to pull a zip tie tight and noticed one of them starting to pull out. Didn't pull it out but I could see if you used a pliers like some do to tighten a zip it might pull out. :thumbsup:


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## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

duggus said:


> I'm not sure on others, but on mine (SN01/ICAN) that is just the derailleur hanger. The actual axle goes right through the frame.
> 
> One caution note on those who are about to build and while we are talking about little bolts - be careful if you zip tie your cables to the factory metal cable guides. They are secured by very small basically rivets that can pull out easily. I was trying to pull a zip tie tight and noticed one of them starting to pull out. Didn't pull it out but I could see if you used a pliers like some do to tighten a zip it might pull out. :thumbsup:


The SN01 looks good actually, it doesn't have the design I was referring to and it has a slack headtube angle. It meets the specs in what I am looking for other than the fact that it only comes in three sizes and the 20" is a bit too small for me. I think the geometry is pretty dialed (long top tubes also) on the SN01, it seems to be the one to get.


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## suspectsean (Apr 9, 2012)

Mortelec, can you post the link to the site you purchased your frame from ?


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## Fett (Jan 6, 2004)

All of the chinese sites that I have seen only have carbon forks with tapered headtubes. Are there any of them out there with straigh 1 1/8 steer tubes, particularly 135mm QR dropouts?


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

Fett said:


> All of the chinese sites that I have seen only have carbon forks with tapered headtubes. Are there any of them out there with straigh 1 1/8 steer tubes, particularly 135mm QR dropouts?


Check into these:

Forks | Sarma USA

they have what you are looking for.


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

trailbrah said:


> Mortelec, can you post the link to the site you purchased your frame from ?


2015 Carbon Sandy Beach Bike Frameset Max Tire 26er X 4.8 inch Carbon Snow Fat Bicycle Frame Fork-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Cyclotoine said:


> The SN01 looks good actually, it doesn't have the design I was referring to and it has a slack headtube angle. It meets the specs in what I am looking for other than the fact that it only comes in three sizes and the 20" is a bit too small for me. I think the geometry is pretty dialed (long top tubes also) on the SN01, it seems to be the one to get.


I measured my 21" Rumblefish against the geometry chart for the 20" SN01, l was suprised how close it was, clear it was a little smaller, and l was comparing a full suspension with a rigid, but chainstay were the same (so l should be able to wheelie it ), and l think the geo should work out pretty similar, which would be awesome!

In the end l ordered a 20" SN01, about 6hrs ago 
Now the wait begins..........


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## Fett (Jan 6, 2004)

majack said:


> Check into these:
> 
> Forks | Sarma USA
> 
> they have what you are looking for.


Thx. I have seen the Sarma and Carver forks for around $300.00. It seems the Chinese forks that are tapered are out there for around130-150. I was looking for something similar in 1 1/8 in that price range.


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## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> I measured my 21" Rumblefish against the geometry chart for the 20" SN01, l was suprised how close it was, clear it was a little smaller, and l was comparing a full suspension with a rigid, but chainstay were the same (so l should be able to wheelie it ), and l think the geo should work out pretty similar, which would be awesome!
> 
> In the end l ordered a 20" SN01, about 6hrs ago
> Now the wait begins..........


yeah the 20" is not bad, but I'd still like a couple more cm of top tube and my post would be nearly as long as the seat tube. So I patiently wait for a 21" frame with the right spec... besides.. fat season is almost over.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Cyclotoine said:


> ... besides.. fat season is almost over.


Im told there is only one fat season......1st Jan to 31st Dec


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## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> Im told there is only one fat season......1st Jan to 31st Dec


touche. But honestly my full sus gets all the love when the snow is gone.


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

Fett said:


> Thx. I have seen the Sarma and Carver forks for around $300.00. It seems the Chinese forks that are tapered are out there for around130-150. I was looking for something similar in 1 1/8 in that price range.


Sub Arctic Alloy Fat Bike Fork by Carboncycles Snow Sand Trail Light Strong | eBay

Not quite, but closer.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Got my SN01 done. Need to get better pics but this will do for now 









*NOTE for anyone using a Race Face turbine with a 120bb:* This is the info I was sent from Race Face. The incorrect spacers (or at least not a complete set) are sent with the 100mm turbine:

_"To setup the 120mm BB shell you will need all three 2.5mm BB spacers installed. You will need two on the drive side and one on the non. *For the Spindle spacers you will actually need two 1.5mm spacers and none of the 11.5mm.* For some reason we ship only the spacers for the 100mm shell spacing for the 190's. If you can send me your address I can mail you some of the 1.5mm aluminum spacers."_

Also for torque, make sure you go by the NM on the race face instructions... Should be 300-360 in-lb not 35!!!


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

duggus said:


> View attachment 968107


the green and rabbits are not to my personal liking (but as you say opinions are like........) but it looks cool otherwise.

my main problem is that you carried it and placed it there, ride it man!!!!! 

good info about the BB to go along with it though :thumbsup:


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

duggus said:


> Got my SN01 done. Need to get better pics but this will do for now
> 
> View attachment 968107
> 
> ...


That looks sick.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

cmg71 said:


> the green and rabbits are not to my personal liking (but as you say opinions are like........) but it looks cool otherwise.
> 
> my main problem is that you carried it and placed it there, ride it man!!!!!
> 
> good info about the BB to go along with it though :thumbsup:


That was right outside the garage door at 9 at night  I rode a couple blocks to test shifting and had enough with the -5 and regular pants on! But we have a ski hill gravity/race event this Sunday that it will get a good testing on.

The rabbits are kind of an inside joke among my group. My girlfriend and I have 4 of them, house rabbits. They do tricks and agility stuff. It's pretty amusing. Anyway


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

it's all cool man, good luck in the gravity race........ride report please


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## CJones (Aug 3, 2004)

Do any of the Chinese Carbon fatty frames have internal routing for a dropper post?

Thanks!


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

CJones said:


> Do any of the Chinese Carbon fatty frames have internal routing for a dropper post?
> 
> Thanks!


If you run 1x you will have an open spot on the internal routing.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> Can you post a pic without a filter?
> 
> Looks good, my guess is it'll look better without a filter


Specs:
Frame: Carbon ICAN SN01
Drivetrain: Sram 1x11 sprocket, XO dérailleur and grip shifter, Raceface Turbine crane w/30t chainring.
Cockpit: Raceface Atlas bars and stem. sram grips. 
Seatpost: Raceface Turbine 
Brakes: Avid XO Trail & Centerline rotors,
Wheels: Hope hubs laced to Clown shoe rims.
Tires: 4.6 Ground Controle


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

More Pics


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Oh, fkn bang!

very nice slomo


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

Thank you


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

lancelot said:


> Here's a pic of my freshly built 21" FM190. Pretty much done except I need a longer rear brake hose. Hopefully I can get it sorted quick because the snow is flying. Probably the heaviest build on here at just under 30lbs with pedals.
> 
> 21" FM190 w/ Bluto
> Nextie 90mm w/I9 hubs
> ...


I emailed Wendy at Dengfu and she said that the FM190 will not fit a bluto fork. One other user posted that their frames they recently received did not fit the bluto.

So which is right, how much clearance have you got?
Got any pics showing the clearance?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

You would have search through, but if I recall correctly, the L and XL sizes fit a Bluto, but not the M and S. I could be mixing this up, but I think this is the correct frame.


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## 2bliss (Sep 10, 2014)

*ip-010 190mm + 90mm Nexties + Spez Ground Control 4.6"*

This is doable. Only just, but it is working out well for me. My frame is a post-revision 17". Tyre measures 111mm over widest part (across side knobs). There is 5mm clearance on either side at the narrowest part of the frame. Did a muddy ride this morning and no troubles with mud accumulation. The tyres seem to shed mud really well. (Poor guy behind me! :winker: )

Running 1x10 with a RaceFace Turbine Cinch crank (for 170mm rear) and DM 32T. It wasn't necessary to flip the ring. 4.5mm between chainring teeth and chainstay at closest point. 175mm crank arms with crank boots have 4mm clearance with chainstays. With the chain on the biggest sprocket (36) it clears the tyre by 7mm.

No issues with brakes or with chain/frame clearance.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the tyres are set up tubeless at 7psi. They have had a week to stretch out.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Have you measured the width at the rear dropouts? I'm curious if it's 190mm or 197mm. I'm interested in ordering wheels from Yishun, but I need to know this first.


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

*Yishun FM079*

Wheels arrived Friday morning, built her up and went for first ride Saturday afternoon.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Hi Zero

Any chance of chainline, chainstay, seatstay, tyre clearance pics, build problems, specs, initial ride impressions pls ? 

Ya know the usual million n one answers to the questions we're gonna ask  

Particularly interested in this bike as I'm a wierd shape and the 19" looks to have good reach with minimal standover that would suit my wierdness . 

Thanks


fat Biker


P.S. Very nice bike BTW :thumbsup:


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

bombermate said:


> I emailed Wendy at Dengfu and she said that the FM190 will not fit a bluto fork. One other user posted that their frames they recently received did not fit the bluto.
> 
> So which is right, how much clearance have you got?
> Got any pics showing the clearance?


Mine is a 21" and Bluto clears easily 15-20mm. I think the smaller frames are the issue.


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## acetechm3 (Apr 8, 2010)

Finished build, it's snowing here and just road 5 miles in fresh snow, very happy😜


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Love that bike!!


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Zero,

What frame is that !! Very cool!

I'm almost settled on getting the N019 but, may change my mind after seeing yours !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

Yishun FM079.

I'll get more pics and details up later tonight: chainline, seatstay and chainstay pics, etc. it was a flawless build! I was HUGELY impressed with the quality of the build kit! I worked in bike shops for about 10 years from '96 to '05...in my estimation the quality is very, very good on the frameset and wheelset.

More info coming soon...



Bugout Bikes said:


> Zero,
> 
> What frame is that !! Very cool!
> 
> ...


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Hard to tell from their site. Will this thing for a 5" tire?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Hard to tell from their site. Will this thing for a 5" tire?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks the same as my IP-010 so no, it won't fit 5" tires.


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

Yes it takes 5" tires with room to spare. Go to: yishunbike.com

I bought direct by emailing customer service. Very responsive and shipped quickly.



Bugout Bikes said:


> Hard to tell from their site. Will this thing for a 5" tire?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

zero,
Your frame looks nothing like the FM089 on Yishun's website. It looks more like the xiamen iplay IP-10. Or the SN03 from Ican

Cool bike. Have fun


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

My bike is the Yishun FM079. (My bike is NOT the custom painted white with black and grey shapes and Bluto. Mine is black with rigid fork, posted above that one.)



mucky said:


> zero,
> Your frame looks nothing like the FM089 on Yishun's website. It looks more like the xiamen iplay IP-10. Or the SN03 from Ican
> 
> Cool bike. Have fun


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Doooh! Sorry

Still Looks good


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

You guys are killing me. Looking good.


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

*Yishun FM079 detailed pics, build info and first impressions*

Here are some pics as requested:

Fork Clearance on stock tires (tires are marked 26 x 4.9, actual width mounted on 85mm wide rims is 4.5"):







There is 3/4" of clearance to the fork blades.

Chainstay Clearance is 1/2" on each side:








Seatstay clearance is 3/4":








1" of clearance between the tire and the U of the chainstays at the BB:








Chainline to center cog of my temporary 9 speed setup:








Chainline to the inner cog:








Distance from chain to tire when on inner cog is 3/8th of an inch:








The build went flawless with ZERO unpleasant surprises. All internal cable routing was a breeze (full housing for the rear brake, housing stops and cable only for front and rear derailleurs). Finish on the naked UD carbon fibre is very, very good.

I'm a roadie and bought a fat bike because it looked like a fun way of getting outside during the winter months here in Indianapolis. That being said, here are a few of my early impressions of this build....
I was able to ride hands free with no problems or tendency to self steer (stock tires with tubes at around 9 psi).
Seems stable yet fairly nimble for what it is. Granted, it's a vastly different feel than the sub 15 lbs. road bikes I'm used to spending most of my time on. I rode some snow packed single track and it fared well. The biggest problem was with me and my rusty or nonexistent technique. 
As built now (X7 shifter, X9 RD, heavy Wellgo SPD's, BB7's and running tubes) it weighs 28.2 lbs (17" on Yishun carbon rims & their stock hubs). I plan on going tubeless and changing out the drivetrain (except for the crank), lighter seatpost and probably some lighter cable and housing. I think it'll trim down to between 25.5 - 26 lbs. without getting too crazy.

I have no idea if it will accommodate a Bluto. I simply didn't (and don't) care and that was never a factor in my decision to buy.

I contacted YishunBike directly from their website (yishunbike.com) and received a very quick response from Gavin Woo. He answered all my questions promptly and I bought their semi-complete build kit. My purchase was shipped within 4 days after payment was made. All and all an excellent experience with ZERO problems or complaints.

EDIT: Spacing specs (listed elsewhere in this thread but I'll put here for convenience and to hopefully clarify): Fork is 150mm thru-axle, Rear is 197mm thru-axle. Beware that originally the rear spacing was 190 TA but was quickly corrected to 197 from what I've been able to learn.

Pic from ride today:


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Awww [email protected]  

You just shot this frame to the top of my list. 
You SURE you're not holding back on us here ? 
Please find SOMETHING bad to say  
Otherwise I'll need to rob a bank at this stage. Currently collecting parts for a carbon 29er AND a monstercross/road/gravel frankenation build and now this ! 
I mean it's not like I don't have a bike to ride for pete's sake. 
A fatty, a 29er , a 26er and a trials bike  

I just neeeeeed them all to be carbon, good looking and NOW ! ! ! ! ! 
It's getting real expensive REAL fast even going "cheap Chinese" and ebay bargin hunting :madman: :thumbsup: 

P.S. Think I read somewhere a "version" of this frame is listed on the vendors site as 190mm rear axle spacing but they're actually shipping 197mm. Which is yours please Zero ? 

Thanks

Fat Biker


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

P.P.S. Thanks for all the pics and info. 
Muchly appreciated 


fat Biker


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

Fat Biker said:


> Awww [email protected]
> 
> You just shot this frame to the top of my list.
> You SURE you're not holding back on us here ?
> ...


The only thing I do not like about the this frame is what looks to be a weak point and that is the rear axle drop outs are. If you look where the axle goes through the frame it is a very thin section of carbon sandwiched between two metal plates that look to be screwed into the frame. It appears to be this way on both side where the axle goes through. I haven't seen many close up pictures of this so might be mistaken. Maybe Zero could post some close up shots of this area. I have the SN01 frame and where the axle goes through is very beefy and looks very strong in comparison to the FM079


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

Mine is 197 rear spacing. I got the newest version which has been corrected to 197. Be careful, I'm sure there are 190 spaced frames out there. That's why I HIGHLY recommend going through YishunBike website and contacting customer service directly.



Fat Biker said:


> Awww [email protected]
> 
> You just shot this frame to the top of my list.
> You SURE you're not holding back on us here ?
> ...


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

Yes, your description is correct. And only use and time will provide an answer to your concerns.

I tend to think that with the rear wheel attached the whole rear end becomes (obviously) a rigid unit. As long as there is no play between the forged bolted on TA dropouts and the carbon tabs that they attach to I don't think it will become a problem. (The carbon tab is rounded on the end and the axle looks to actually seat against it within the alloy dropout, I'll try and show what I'm talking about with a picture soon....)



Slowmopopo said:


> The only thing I do not like about the this frame is what looks to be a weak point and that is the rear axle drop outs are. If you look where the axle goes through the frame it is a very thin section of carbon sandwiched between two metal plates that look to be screwed into the frame. It appears to be this way on both side where the axle goes through. I haven't seen many close up pictures of this so might be mistaken. Maybe Zero could post some close up shots of this area. I have the SN01 frame and where the axle goes through is very beefy and looks very strong in comparison to the FM079


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Thanks guys  

Slowmo, any chance you could throw up a pic or two of your dropouts to compare against Zero's, so we can compare the differing thickness and "potential" weak point ? 

Thanks

Fat Biker


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Looks great zero85ZEN! Yeah, I thought the white one was yours. Oops.


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

acetechm3 said:


> Finished build, it's snowing here and just road 5 miles in fresh snow, very happy


Awesome!!! What frame is this?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

Fat Biker said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> Slowmo, any chance you could throw up a pic or two of your dropouts to compare against Zero's, so we can compare the differing thickness and "potential" weak point ?
> 
> ...


These are photos are from ICAN. They're the same as my frame. I also posted a pic of the FM079 for comparison. I personally do not like the way the drop outs are on the FM079. But Zero is right they might be fine, only time will tell if they're going to hold up.


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## acetechm3 (Apr 8, 2010)

Its the LTK010, from LT bike, I'm sure it's the same one sold by all the vendors, the fork is also from LT, the FK028, full carbon fork


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Hi ace , any info (weights , travel , hub spacing , stanchion diameter , construction) on this fork at all please ? 

Ride impressions ?

If (and it's a big IF) the limited blurb is to be believed this is one ultra light super fatty fork .

Is it really a carbon uni-crown steerer AND one piece carbon sliders ?

Think I read somewhere eons ago (I could have dreampt it ?) this came in at 1350-1450g (pre-production) is that ball park production weight would you say ?



Thanks


Fat Biker


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Thanks slowmo

I see what you mean now .

I think the dropouts (bolt through) are a similar design to the ones on the IP057 29er frame (the switchable QR / bolt through one)

I don't recall seeing or hearing of anyone snapping the carbon at the drop out on any frame made like that (I was wondering if this design of drop out would be up to the rigors placed upon it by my fat a$$  ) Although I may have missed it , and as you say it doesn't look very substantial does it ?

It is arguable though which is subjected to more stress due to hub width , wheel mass , ridden terrain , rider weight or any number of factors . Hence which frame (if not both) would need to more robust in this area .

Thanks for your time in posting the pics 






Fat Biker


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

*SN01 down a hill*

My SN01 got officially beat in yesterday. My local club / friends bike shop / and ski resort had a downhill (super D) style ride/race. Loads of fun. We had lifts and then special snowmobile attachments to take the bikes up.





















No problems at all the entire day. Had many, many compliments on the bike. 
I'm 220 on a good day and I had her off the ground a couple good times.
Took some better bike pics this weekend too...


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## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

for the moment is my favorite.
nice work!


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm that guy....

Was out riding this weekend at local trail, St Edwards. Heard the tell tale chainsaw like sounds of chosen hubs, and saw a carbon fatty roll by.

I called out "Is that a Chinese Carbon? Nice looking bike." without even thinking. The rider respond "Yes, i love it." ... So that was cool, yet my riding buddy mocked me mercilessly for the remainder of the ride knowing a bike/hub by sight sound when I don't yet own one, and he said it sounded like I was yelling at a guy crossing the boarder taking our jobs, sigh.

and now back to more awesome bikes I can't afford...


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Sweet....., so my hub will sound like a chainsaw......awesome


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

cmg71 said:


> Sweet....., so my hub will sound like a chainsaw......awesome


More like a REALLY firm baseball card in your spokes.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

Fat Biker said:


> Thanks slowmo
> 
> I see what you mean now .
> 
> ...


No problem Fat Biker.
I think any of these carbon frames are subject to possible weak areas or quality control issues but that being said I think that is true of any manufactures bike. Only time will tell as to the strength and durability of these frames.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

WSUPolar said:


> I'm that guy....
> 
> Was out riding this weekend at local trail, St Edwards. Heard the tell tale chainsaw like sounds of chosen hubs, and saw a carbon fatty roll by.
> 
> ...


I would like to see a video of the sound of this hub! Im curious now!


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

Slowmopopo said:


> No problem Fat Biker.
> I think any of these carbon frames are subject to possible weak areas or quality control issues but that being said I think that is true of any manufactures bike. Only time will tell as to the strength and durability of these frames.


I think this is spot on....

If we want bomb proof frames we probably should be buying Pugs! Lol!
There undoubtedly is some risk in buying lighter carbon frames...it's the trade off we're wiling to make I guess.

Another thing that has me worrying less than some I suppose...I weigh between 140-45 lbs soaking wet. So I'm pretty comfortable riding lighter weight equipment. Your mileage may vary....


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Ok bike gurus and Chinese carbon builders of legend, I would like a frame that accepts up to 5", is carbon, and has rear rack capability. 

I like the SN01 but, only accepts 4.8". 

I like the N019 but, no rear rack capability. 

I like dengfu fm190 but, no rear rack capability and has 135 front. 

Is there a frame out there for me?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

zero85ZEN said:


> I think this is spot on....
> 
> If we want bomb proof frames we probably should be buying Pugs..


Even that might not do it, look for the cracked seatstay weld thread...........


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

sryanak said:


> Even that might not do it, look for the cracked seatstay weld thread...........


True. Nothing is perfect in this imperfect world!


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## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Ok bike gurus and Chinese carbon builders of legend, I would like a frame that accepts up to 5", is carbon, and has rear rack capability.
> 
> I like the SN01 but, only accepts 4.8".
> 
> ...


I think what you're seeking may not exist. What about rigging racks to fit a frame that doesn't have bosses or mounting holes?


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

I can jimmy rig anything. But, for $700 Id like it to fit what I'm looking for. 

Anyone else know of a frame that fits the bill?

Fits up to 5" tire. Is carbon. & has rear rack capability. That's it 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

I can confirm that the medium IP-N019 downtube interferes with both sides of the Bluto. That's a bit disappointing.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Bugout... I'm confused why you say up to 5"? There is no such tire anyway. 4.8 Surly Bud and Lou is the biggest there is.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

*SN01 First impressions.*

i have a few rides under my belt now and I have to say I couldn't be more pleased. The handling is better than expected and with the shorter chainstays it makes the front end feel very light. I am also glad I went with the 1x11 setup, gearing is absolutely perfect for me. The geometry of this frame seems to be be spot on and to my liking. I built this bike on a budget and feel that I got more than my money worth. Two thumbs up for the ICAN SN01. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Slowmo I agree... my first ride I felt right at home on it. Even though I'm not usually a fan of black and red, your build looks really awesome!

I went from a 36 lb Moonlander to a 27 lb carbon beast. I really noticed the difference on my first tough ride tonight. Way more responsive, snappy, and agile. And my back is much happier taking it on and off the roof rack


----------



## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Slowmopopo, what wheelset is that?

Duggus, I was just wanting max clearance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

duggus said:


> Slowmo I agree... my first ride I felt right at home on it. Even though I'm not usually a fan of black and red, your build looks really awesome!
> 
> I went from a 36 lb Moonlander to a 27 lb carbon beast. I really noticed the difference on my first tough ride tonight. Way more responsive, snappy, and agile. And my back is much happier taking it on and off the roof rack


Thanks Dug,

Yeah when you see those big tires you automatically think the handling is going to be be sluggish. I see you had a pretty good test ride on Mount. Kato, that had to be fun.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Slowmopopo, what wheelset is that?
> 
> Duggus, I was just wanting max clearance.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Surly clown shoe rims with hope hubs and specialized 4.6 ground control tires.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Bugout Bikes said:


> I can jimmy rig anything. But, for $700 Id like it to fit what I'm looking for.
> 
> Anyone else know of a frame that fits the bill?
> 
> ...


fatback corvus, the real one


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

zero85ZEN said:


> Here are some pics as requested:
> 
> Fork Clearance on stock tires (tires are marked 26 x 4.9, actual width mounted on 85mm wide rims is 4.5"):
> View attachment 968928
> ...


Hey man that's a really nice bike. I've been emailing dengfu back and forth and have a few things that are not as i'd like em on the FM190: such as the 135mm fork and bluto not fitting onto a 17" frame if i did want to go that way down the track.

So you measured the widest part of your tires at 4.5" = 114mm? That is close to the largest available tire size on 100mm rims from Surly (120mm):
http://surlybikes.com//uploads/downloads/SURLY_Tire_Geometries.pdf

So from your numbers the closest point of contact is 3/8" = 9.5mm which means you would "in theory" have a 6mm clearance to the chain on the largest cog.

What did you use for your BB and crank? Can you measure the offsets to the centre of the frame from the largest cog and also from the crank cog to the centre of the frame? Did you use any spacers to offset the chainline further from the frame?


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Slowmopopo said:


> Surly clown shoe rims with hope hubs and specialized 4.6 ground control tires.


Awesome! More and more good frames that seem to fit the bill are coming out of the woodwork.

Can you measure the widest part of your tires knob-to-knob?
What are your clearances to the frame? Chainline?

What is your drivetrain?


----------



## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

Damn a carbon light weight suspension fork for fatbikes! Why are more people not freaking out about this, need more info!


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

We did, back in October roughly


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Anyone else know of a frame that fits the bill?
> 
> Fits up to 5" tire. Is carbon. & has rear rack capability. That's it


Well, the SN01 can fit a 4.8 in the back, is carbon, and has rack mounts.


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

WSUPolar said:


> We did, back in October roughly


My search is only coming up with an 11 nine inverted carbon fork.


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## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

Slowmopopo said:


> i have a few rides under my belt now and I have to say I couldn't be more pleased. The handling is better than expected and with the shorter chainstays it makes the front end feel very light. I am also glad I went with the 1x11 setup, gearing is absolutely perfect for me. The geometry of this frame seems to be be spot on and to my liking. I built this bike on a budget and feel that I got more than my money worth. Two thumbs up for the ICAN SN01. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


You built what I want (though I would have sprung for carbon wheels)... I just wish it came in an XL 21" size frame. Someone will make one with good geometry next year I am sure. The geometry of the SN01 is VERY similar to a beargrease. Great trail Fatty. I like the geometry of my mukluk a lot so I gotta wait for the right 21" carbon from china.


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Windigo said:


> My search is only coming up with an 11 nine inverted carbon fork.


It was in this thread, light weight uses rockshox internals 135mm spaced. That's the first post (1147) I believe below here, and there is more details on it in subsequent posts from JonL

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/chinese-carbon-fatty-889515-46.html#post11457997

The 11Nine fork is the "fork of many names"


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

More and more excited to get mine. Found out it left for JFK on 2/13 from Xiamen. I have heard they are backlogged from the snow so I'm trying to be patient. Supposedly rather than 1 to 2 weeks it's more like 3 to 4. Painful, painful weeks.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Cyclotoine said:


> You built what I want (though I would have sprung for carbon wheels)... I just wish it came in an XL 21" size frame. Someone will make one with good geometry next year I am sure. The geometry of the SN01 is VERY similar to a beargrease. Great trail Fatty. I like the geometry of my mukluk a lot so I gotta wait for the right 21" carbon from china.


It comes in a higher end of the geo range 20" if that works for you. Longer stem, set back post, and you may be fine :thumbsup:

SN01 Fat bike frame BB shell 120mm - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

my wheels are on the way :thumbsup:

no word on my frame yet............


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Alright, genuine question.

What would be a "better" replacement for an aluminum framed and tubeless unfriendly wheeled fatbike (Moto Boris X9 (non sliders)).

Replace the Frame or the Wheelset with the carbon equivalent; consider both are about the same price?

I'm thinking Wheelset for the reduced rotating weight with the loss of maybe three pounds a wheel, but thought I'd ask the hive mind. When the tax refund cometh I'm going to attempt to finagle that out of the budgetary commission.


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

I'd go wheels before frame on the Boris X9. Losing 2+ lbs on the wheels is a much bigger change than losing maybe 1 lb on the frame.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

WSUPolar said:


> Alright, genuine question.
> 
> What would be a "better" replacement for an aluminum framed and tubeless unfriendly wheeled fatbike (Moto Boris X9 (non sliders)).
> 
> ...


Same debate for me. I went with the carbon 65mm wheels. Just ordered from Ican so it might be a few weeks. I felt I would feel a greater difference if I changed the wheels and tires than just the frame. Frame is next however in a few months.


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## Goodwoodz (Dec 10, 2008)

I have the Ican 65's on a Framed 1.0........it's a totally new bike!! Put on the Kendra Juggernaut sports tubeless, love it even more. Best bang for buck is wheels.....forget bars, seatposts, even frame.....wheels!


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Goodwoodz said:


> I have the Ican 65's on a Framed 1.0........it's a totally new bike!! Put on the Kendra Juggernaut sports tubeless, love it even more. Best bang for buck is wheels.....forget bars, seatposts, even frame.....wheels!


What did u do to go tubeless? Were they easy to mount and do they hold air well?


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## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

WSUPolar said:


> Alright, genuine question.
> 
> What would be a "better" replacement for an aluminum framed and tubeless unfriendly wheeled fatbike (Moto Boris X9 (non sliders)).
> 
> ...


yeah but if you buy wheels for that you are limited on what you can carry the wheels over too. In this case I would say you are better off saving and waiting and doing a complete build all at once. People love upgrading, but ultimately you'll spend way more money. Suck it up, ride what you have till you can afford a whole new rig. It's hard and take much self discipline, but you will become a Zen master. I have a loose 3 year rule. The full sus. and fat bike must be ridden for three seasons before a new bike is purchased and then I do the whole thing. I never do big upgrades on wheels or suspension. Just service what is there and ride it. It just doesn't pay. I play at the $4K+ level on my mountain bikes so I am getting a pretty darn good bike all around to begin with.

I have a 2014 Salsa Mukluk with two seasons. I am following chinese carbon closely and will likely build one next winter and sell the Muk part way through while the used demand is high.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Don't wait. Buy whatever you want now. When you want the better bike, buy that too.


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## Goodwoodz (Dec 10, 2008)

Easy to go tubeless! Two wraps of scotch tough tape, cut the presta valve off some old tubes, added 3-4 oz of stan's.....took minutes, but I do have a cheap compressor which made inflating easy. My first time going true tubeless, my other wheels were ghetto tubeless.


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## SRock24 (Mar 10, 2012)

duggus said:


> She's starting to come together.
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Digging the humping bunnies!!!


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

So are these chosen hubs really that loud?


----------



## pineappleoil (Mar 4, 2015)

i would like to buy a fat bike frame with rigid fork. size should be as small as possible as my girl friend may ride it and she is just 167cm tall. i think she should ride a 15.5" or 16" frame. 
is there any frame that is 15.5" or 16" carbon frame that is come with rack mount? i want to use 2x10 gear on this fat bike.and what is the narrowest tyre that can use on a 80mm rim?
thanks.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

msedbaue said:


> So are these chosen hubs really that loud?


My Chosen hubs are not loud at all.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

dvn said:


> My Chosen hubs are not loud at all.


Thanks for the info!


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

msedbaue said:


> Thanks for the info!


Mine either... But I did put a little extra grease on the pawls/ratchet ring, which may do some sound-deadening.


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## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> Don't wait. Buy whatever you want now. When you want the better bike, buy that too.


There is a that option. The enabler! Life is short enjoy it. Everyone is different.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

pineappleoil said:


> i would like to buy a fat bike frame with rigid fork. size should be as small as possible as my girl friend may ride it and she is just 167cm tall. i think she should ride a 15.5" or 16" frame.
> is there any frame that is 15.5" or 16" carbon frame that is come with rack mount? i want to use 2x10 gear on this fat bike.and what is the narrowest tyre that can use on a 80mm rim?
> thanks.


Reading the last week of this thread and a little research will easily answer your questions.

but to answer your questions, yes and yes


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

I dont know about your tyre question.......


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

I wouldn't ever go below a 3.8 on a 80mm rim, you will get tons of rim strikes and the tire profile will be terrible. Not even sure which tires there are below a 3.8 other than getting back into normal mountain bike territory.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Knards come in a 3 (l think, maybe Nates?), l wouldnt call that 'normal' mtb territory, well not around here anyway, folks think my 2.4s are fat


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

dvn said:


> My Chosen hubs are not loud at all.


neither are mine, in fact comparing to my other wheels on hope hubs, i consider chosen hubs to be stealth


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

__
https://flic.kr/p/15245707936

Tune hub soundcheck


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Cyclotoine said:


> yeah but if you buy wheels for that you are limited on what you can carry the wheels over too. In this case I would say you are better off saving and waiting and doing a complete build all at once. People love upgrading, but ultimately you'll spend way more money.


I just want to understand, why if i bought a frame with another hub standard I wouldn't just re-lace my wheels to new hubs that fit?

It's a part that could easily carry over to another bike, right?

Having a second set of wheels, seems like it would be a very handy piece of kit.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

WSUPolar said:


> I just want to understand, why if i bought a frame with another hub standard I wouldn't just re-lace my wheels to new hubs that fit?
> 
> It's a part that could easily carry over to another bike, right?
> 
> Having a second set of wheels, seems like it would be a very handy piece of kit.


You could do that but hubs are generally expensive, especially rear ones. Then lacing the hubs also cost money since you need to buy new spokes and nipples. The cost is even more if u have to pay someone to lace them if you can't do it yourself. So while you could definitely just *lace the wheels to new hubs that fit," the cost would likely restrict you.


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Hey guys, possibly a noob question but If you have a 120mm BB frame is it possible to fit Race Face Next SL crank onto the frame?

The Raceface BSA-30 BB seems to only be 100mm. Are there some sort of spacers available to make it all fit?


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bombermate said:


> Hey guys, possibly a noob question but If you have a 120mm BB frame is it possible to fit Race Face Next SL crank onto the frame?
> 
> The Raceface BSA-30 BB seems to only be 100mm. Are there some sort of spacers available to make it all fit?


If you read back a couple pages I just answered that. The 100mm bottom brackets with 190/197 rear need a bunch of spacers. With the 120mm bottom bracket you need less spacers. BUT... there was an issue with Rockshox not including the correct spacers, but if you contact them they will send out. Otherwise mine has been working just fine and chain-line is great using one 2.5mm BB spacer on non drive side, and then one of their 11.5mm spindle spacers on drive side. With a 100mm BB you need _both_ 11.5 spacers on each side, _plus_ all 3 BB spacers. The spindles are the same length for both a 100mm BB, 120mm BB, 190 rear, or 197 rear. Its just a matter of spacer combo.


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## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> You could do that but hubs are generally expensive, especially rear ones. Then lacing the hubs also cost money since you need to buy new spokes and nipples. The cost is even more if u have to pay someone to lace them if you can't do it yourself. So while you could definitely just *lace the wheels to new hubs that fit," the cost would likely restrict you.


This.

I lace all my own wheels but there is a continual backlog of wheels and rims to be laced. I think I have four sets of wheels in the queue. Most are for vintage bikes so there is no rush to build them before parts go obsolete.

but the point is... If I set aside 4 hours to build a set of wheels I don't want to have to spend an hour plus unlacing them and another 4 hours re-lacing them and buying new spokes a year later. Maybe that's just me, my parents always thought I would be an accountant because I am so practical. I am a field hydrologist though. A water accountant if you will.


----------



## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

what spindle length and where can a person get a 120mm bottom bracket 120 shell 197 rear spacing


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Anyone able to use the samox crank that comes with Night Train Bullet on an Ican SN01?


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bnelson said:


> what spindle length and where can a person get a 120mm bottom bracket 120 shell 197 rear spacing


You just need a spindle for a 190 rear. I'm 95% sure there is no BB just for a 120 bottom bracket, you can use any BSA cups you want, what makes it 100 is the spacer/protector thing in between the cups, which you really don't need. I left mine on one side and then there is a 20mm gap between the other. No biggie.



Negotiator50 said:


> Anyone able to use the samox crank that comes with Night Train Bullet on an Ican SN01?


I don't see why you couldn't. The nightrain has a BSA BB too so should swap right over.


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## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

thanks


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

duggus said:


> I don't see why you couldn't. The nightrain has a BSA BB too so should swap right over.


How about a 120mm BB sleeve to replace the 100mm that comes with the samox crank? Where would I get that. I haven't been able to find one of those. Could I just leave it without a sleeve?


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Hey anyone still checking this thread - have you measured the ID of the headtube for a headset? Specifically the SN01 but I believe all the china carbons have the same headtube setup. I'm not thrilled on the stock (free) headset but have not measured. I would assume a 44mm standard? I'd like to order one of the cane creek 40's with the high top cap.


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## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> How about a 120mm BB sleeve to replace the 100mm that comes with the samox crank? Where would I get that. I haven't been able to find one of those. *Could I just leave it without a sleeve?*


That's what he said, yes.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> How about a 120mm BB sleeve to replace the 100mm that comes with the samox crank? Where would I get that. I haven't been able to find one of those. Could I just leave it without a sleeve?


As far as I know they don't make a sleeve for 120mm BB. You can go without or do what I did, just cut the sleeve in half and extend it using gorilla tape.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

So my ICAN 90mm rims turned up today, shipped Monday from factory (China) and arrived in Switzerland on Friday. Good service.
My first carbon wheels, and for the price I would say the quality is good (but I am no professional). Boy that rear hub makes some noise, in case people miss the presence of the huge tyres, the noise of the hub will alert them that Im there.

Some info for you:

Front (ICAN listed as 1075+-20g):



Rear with shimano freewheel (ICAN listed as 1215+-20g):



Front:



Rear:



The frame shipped today, so hopefully I'll get it by next weekend :thumbsup:

btw, I have two sets of tyres here, a pair of Chaoyangs (Euro33.70 each) and a pair of Ground Controls (Euro99.90 each), the weights:

Chaoyang 26X4.9, wire bead: 1554g & 1556g (Italian website (below) lists them as 1520g)
Ground Control 26X4.6, foldable: 1449g & 1455g (German website where I purchased them from lists them as 1450g)

These are two totally different tyres, which I havent ridden on yet, and they have different profiles and uses (I reckon), but all that info can be found elsewhere on this site .

Chaoyongs I picked from Ridewill accessori e ricambi per bici, moto, scooter, vespa, ape as I went past, therefore no delivery costs, not bad at Euro33.70 each :thumbsup:


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Anyone looking to get parts there is a guy on fat bike trader selling a Race Face cinch kit with BB and 26t ring for $300.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1557084754557618&set=gm.956811034352837&type=1&theater


----------



## ciscolangot (Nov 24, 2009)

*Batman's bike Finally Built!*

Thanks for all the replies and PMs from y'all.

I already own and enjoying a Spez fatboy but I am dreaming of a superlight bike. That and we also have a huge Batman figure at work and I thought, all carbon bike would look like Batman's bike! 

Started the project last January and the bike is finally built. Completed two rides and I love this f'n bike. Having a 24lb bike, the workout quality from riding a bike diminishes though, imho. I see myself doing some epic rides with this fatty.

build is SN01 frame and fork. Cinch cranks, 1 x 11 dtrain, shimano XT brakes, 65mm carbon rims with Fat B Nimble tires. Bluto and reverb post ready for technical trails.






























\m/


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

duggus said:


> If you read back a couple pages I just answered that. The 100mm bottom brackets with 190/197 rear need a bunch of spacers. With the 120mm bottom bracket you need less spacers. BUT... there was an issue with Rockshox not including the correct spacers, but if you contact them they will send out. Otherwise mine has been working just fine and chain-line is great using one 2.5mm BB spacer on non drive side, and then one of their 11.5mm spindle spacers on drive side. With a 100mm BB you need _both_ 11.5 spacers on each side, _plus_ all 3 BB spacers. The spindles are the same length for both a 100mm BB, 120mm BB, 190 rear, or 197 rear. Its just a matter of spacer combo.


Yeah I looked around the posts before but it wasnt clear enough (considering I'm very limited on bike parts knowledge). This clears it up alot. Thanks mate
Looks like 120mm BB is even better than 100mm and I was all worried before!

Looks like after all this planning I may jump ship and go for ICAN SN01 instead of Dengfu FM190. Bluto not fitting the FM190 and lack of rear rack mounts made me change my mind about the FM190. I could live with slightly thinner tires!

Now if either of these manufacturers addressed their respective problem areas we would have the perfect FATTY frames!


----------



## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

bombermate said:


> Yeah I looked around the posts before but it wasnt clear enough (considering I'm very limited on bike parts knowledge). This clears it up alot. Thanks mate
> Looks like 120mm BB is even better than 100mm and I was all worried before!
> 
> Looks like after all this planning I may jump ship and go for ICAN SN01 instead of Dengfu FM190. Bluto not fitting the FM190 and lack of rear rack mounts made me change my mind about the FM190. I could live with slightly thinner tires!
> ...


4.8 tires will fit on SN01 with as wid as 90mm rims, 100mm rims might be pushing it. I have 4.6inch tires mounted on 100mm rims and 1x11 with tons of clearance.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

fm190 has been treating me well for past two months. getting her all "dressed up" and ready for bike packing season


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

brankulo said:


> fm190 has been treating me well for past two months. getting her all "dressed up" and ready for bike packing season
> 
> View attachment 970530


Awesome looking bike! I just got mine shipped yesterday! Hopefully it doesnt take too long to get here! More pictures please!


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Just finished these 



Frame arrived in Switzerland today, hopefully it clears customs and is here on Tuesday (fingers crossed)





I had a Ground Control and a Chaoyang mounted on each wheel, the kids reckon the GC looked 'tuffer' and l agree with them, so l will try the GCs first and later l'll put the Chaoyangs on.
As you can see, the Chaoyang is quite taller, but only about 5mm wider.



The difference in tread aggressiveness is pretty obvious too.


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Geir68 said:


> You need a headset with these dimensions : IS42/28.6 - IS52/40. Several manufactures make sets that fit, CaneCreek 40 series is one option.


I am looking for a proper headset for the SN01 frame. Will this one fit:
Cane Creek TAPERED IS42|IS52/40 SHORT TOP COVER (BAA0783K) 84g 
From their website 40-Series

OR

TAPERED IS42|IS52/40 TALL TOP COVER (BAA0784K) 100g

What is the difference between the two and how do I know if they will fit the SN01 frame? Which is the better one?

If anyone who has the SN01 and their headset can do you know how much it weighed? Is it running fine or have there been any problems installing it?

Thanks guys!


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Slowmopopo said:


> As far as I know they don't make a sleeve for 120mm BB. You can go without or do what I did, just cut the sleeve in half and extend it using gorilla tape.


That's a much better solution than leaving it out or leaving a gap. The purpose of the sleeve is to prevent any moisture that gets into the frame from getting to the bearings. The drain hole in the BB shell helps, but I've seen plenty of bikes with rusted BB spindles and trashed bearings.


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

cmg71 said:


> I had a Ground Control and a Chaoyang mounted on each wheel, the kids reckon the GC looked 'tuffer' and l agree with them, so l will try the GCs first and later l'll put the Chaoyangs on.
> As you can see, the Chaoyang is quite taller, but only about 5mm wider.


The difference in wheel diameter should be double the difference in tire _casing_ width, minus double the difference in _center _tread depth.


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

never mind


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Has anyone tried to route their hydraulic brakes internally through their frames?


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bombermate said:


> I am looking for a proper headset for the SN01 frame. Will this one fit:
> Cane Creek TAPERED IS42|IS52/40 SHORT TOP COVER (BAA0783K) 84g
> From their website 40-Series
> 
> ...


I would get the tall cap, less spacers that way. I'm also looking to order one but the free factory headset has been pretty decent actually. It drops in and nothing more than that.


msedbaue said:


> Has anyone tried to route their hydraulic brakes internally through their frames?


That's what the internal routing holes are there for.


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

duggus said:


> That's what the internal routing holes are there for.


I thought I read in a few posts that there are rivets on the outside for hydraulic brakes. Just curious on the hole sizing.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Mechanical are easier as you will have to most likely rebleed hydros. The holes are really tight, not much room other than for the cable.


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

duggus said:


> Mechanical are easier as you will have to most likely rebleed hydros. The holes are really tight, not much room other than for the cable.


Thanks! Im ready to rebleed, but didnt really want to open up the holes at all. Anyone have pics for example?


----------



## BikePhat (Mar 9, 2015)

*my fat build*
















Any other N019 owners here? how's the ride? Any good review about the frame?


----------



## Convoy (Feb 21, 2015)

Nice, great to see a N019 built up. Mine is on order just waiting for shipping... Chinese New year seems to have slowed everything down a lot



BikePhat said:


> View attachment 971136
> 
> View attachment 971138
> 
> ...


----------



## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

Yes, A LOT. Mine has been "despatch from sorting center" since Feb 13th. Using 17 track I was able to find out it left for JFK on the 13th but nothing more than that. I had other shipments come in that I ordered after. Anything outside xiamen seems to be faster.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

All my ICAN stuff ordered on Feb 27, wheels came March 6, Frame is coming tomorrow, March 10. China To Switzerland

WOOHOO!!!!


----------



## Convoy (Feb 21, 2015)

Damn that's quick!



cmg71 said:


> All my ICAN stuff ordered on Feb 27, wheels came March 6, Frame is coming tomorrow, March 10. China To Switzerland
> 
> WOOHOO!!!!


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Got tracking #s for both the frame and wheels now. Lets go EMS Shipping!


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Convoy said:


> Nice, great to see a N019 built up. Mine is on order just waiting for shipping... Chinese New year seems to have slowed everything down a lot


Hang on a tick.. 
Is N019 meant to have room for even bigger tyres? It lists 5.0" tyres in the specs. 2x bottle holders + 150mm fork and 100mm BB.
Could be the perfect frame!

Are there rear rack mounts?
What about tyre clearances? What have you guys got for tyres and can you measure the clearances etc?


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

cmg71 said:


> All my ICAN stuff ordered on Feb 27, wheels came March 6, Frame is coming tomorrow, March 10. China To Switzerland
> 
> WOOHOO!!!!


ICAN definitely seems to be the fastest. I ordered mine right before the Chinese new year, Feb 13th and got it all 7 days later. I was told by Yishunbike they wouldn't get it out before the new year, ICAN assured me it would be no problem and really delivered on their promise. I'm in MN too so not like I'm on the coast. I was told the new year ends on Feb 25th so if you are someone who ordered after that and it hasn't left yet, something is way up with your order and I would be emailing.


----------



## Convoy (Feb 21, 2015)

Wow actually they've painted mine and exactly as I asked and are shipping today so turnaround time is pretty good. I'll be running Nextie 90mm with Dillenger 5's so I'll post pics of tyre clearance when I get my hands on it finally



bombermate said:


> Hang on a tick..
> Is N019 meant to have room for even bigger tyres? It lists 5.0" tyres in the specs. 2x bottle holders + 150mm fork and 100mm BB.
> Could be the perfect frame!
> 
> ...


----------



## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

From my understanding, the processing center at JFK airport is extremely backed up from being hit by snow and a tidal wave of CNY last minute shipments. And they process new incoming packages in front of things that have been waiting since the backlog started. It makes sense, one of my orders from March 1st, will be here by thursday, but my order from Feb 12th is now 25 days in transit and no update since Feb 13th. This could be pure hear say, and just by luck of the draw my most recent order shows up first. From the scouring of the internets I've done, I should expect an update between 26-30 days, aka, any day now. So if you order yours tomorrow, you will have it before me and I will be jealous.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

cmg71 said:


> All my ICAN stuff ordered on Feb 27, wheels came March 6, Frame is coming tomorrow, March 10. China To Switzerland
> 
> WOOHOO!!!!


well my wife was out riding when the delivery came  I really dont understand why she went riding when she knew the frame was coming 

needless to say she has "guaranteed" me it will be at home this arvo :thumbsup:


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

TAPERED IS42|IS52/40 TALL TOP COVER (BAA0784K) 100g



duggus said:


> I would get the tall cap, less spacers that way. I'm also looking to order one but the free factory headset has been pretty decent actually. It drops in and nothing more than that.
> 
> That's what the internal routing holes are there for.


Will I need to buy some extra spacers also? Even with the tall one? How do I know what size spacers I need and how many?

Thanks man.


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

cmg71 said:


> well my wife was out riding when the delivery came  I really dont understand why she went riding when she knew the frame was coming
> 
> needless to say she has "guaranteed" me it will be at home this arvo :thumbsup:


Your woman needs a serious talking to :rant:  :idea: ut: :crazy: 

But she does get brownie points for being on her bike 

P.S. What was she doing out of the kitchen ? Was she lost ????

Fat Biker

P.P.S. I joke of course LOL


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

I think she knew I was a "little" p!ssed off last night, and there will be a stern talking to happening :rant:, but first after I have the frame in my hands :yesnod:


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

cmg71 said:


> Sweet....., so my hub will sound like a chainsaw......awesome


To come back to this point just quickly, with the plain wheels the hub is loud and sounds good, now after Tube/Tyre/Disc & Cassette are mounted it sounds "normal" imo


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bombermate said:


> TAPERED IS42|IS52/40 TALL TOP COVER (BAA0784K) 100g
> 
> Will I need to buy some extra spacers also? Even with the tall one? How do I know what size spacers I need and how many?
> 
> Thanks man.


You will usually always need spacers. You aren't going to know how many until you decide where you want your stem on the steerer. The SN01 has a shorter headtube than I wanted, so I have a 20 and a 5 mm spacer that is going to go on top of the 15mm rise tall cap.

Mine is currently like this:


----------



## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

duggus said:


> You will usually always need spacers. You aren't going to know how many until you decide where you want your stem on the steerer. The SN01 has a shorter headtube than I wanted, so I have a 20 and a 5 mm spacer that is going to go on top of the 15mm rise tall cap.
> 
> Mine is currently like this:
> View attachment 971884


Wow. Did they paint that for you?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Ok, so this is where lm at, need a couple of screws, bleed the brakes (due to shortening the hoses) and to shorten the steerer, then its go go go...





20" SN01 Frame & Fork with 90mm Wheelset and Carbon Parts Set from ICAN.

Overall the packaging was good, better than l expected, the quality to price comparison of the parts (without a test ride) is damn good, but lm no professional.
This is my first carbon bike, and so far it went together really well.

but l still have a couple of questions:

There were no cups for the headset, is that normal? ie: the steerer bearings sit straight in the frame, there was a crown race and the 'top' race, but no cups......

I have a 1 - 2mm gap between frame and spacers/cover on the steerer tube, what have l done wrong? or is this normal?



due to how the cables run and space, lm running my shifting (1X10) internally down the left side (instead of the right side), will see how it goes, on the stand the down shifting (harder gears) is clunky but upshifting goes like a dream





will see how it goes, can always change it if l wish.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Weights:







400mm



700mm



90mm



Fork & Spacers





Frame:





Headset



I havent weighed the bike itself, will do that when lm finished, but its lighter than my Rumblefish


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

What handlebar is that ?


----------



## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> Ok, so this is where lm at, need a couple of screws, bleed the brakes (due to shortening the hoses) and to shorten the steerer, then its go go go...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes the bearing just fit in the head tube, some of the gap will tighten up once you cut the steerer and set the preload on the bearing- be careful not to over tighten the headset. There will still be a little gap but that's normal. Make sure you grease up those bearings on your final install. As far as the shift cable hoes, that's how I ran mine. It should work fine as long as you don't have any kinks in the cable.. As the cable stretches it might shift a little funny, just readjust the cable and or dérailleur after you get a few miles on her. Nice ride.


----------



## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

My IP-N019 is just arrived.
Weight full assembled 10.7 kg.
Tomorrow i will bleed the rear brake and i will test the bike.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Bugout Bikes said:


> Wow. Did they paint that for you?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My friend has a vinyl decal cutter and I do design work for a living


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Looking through Amazon I noticed ICAN is now selling a painted complete with all their carbon parts for $2199... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S4R81ZW/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_MHqavb1PTN6ZK


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

mortenste said:


> What handlebar is that ?


Its from ICAN, all the parts on the scales are from ICAN, most of them come as a 'kit'



Slowmopopo said:


> Yes the bearing just fit in the head tube, some of the gap will tighten up once you cut the steerer and set the preload on the bearing- be careful not to over tighten the headset. There will still be a little gap but that's normal. Make sure you grease up those bearings on your final install. As far as the shift cable hoes, that's how I ran mine. It should work fine as long as you don't have any kinks in the cable.. As the cable stretches it might shift a little funny, just readjust the cable and or dérailleur after you get a few miles on her. Nice ride.


Ok, so a little gap is normal, will get an o-ring to put in there.

Thanks Slowmo


----------



## christianr (Jul 21, 2014)

Fat Biker said:


> P.S. Think I read somewhere a "version" of this frame is listed on the vendors site as 190mm rear axle spacing but they're actually shipping 197mm. Which is yours please Zero ?


Actual frames are 197mm spacing.
190mm is the previous mold no longer available.


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

friliver16 said:


> My IP-N019 is just arrived.
> Weight full assembled 10.7 kg.
> Tomorrow i will bleed the rear brake and i will test the bike.


Sweet bike! What tyres are those? Can you measure up some clearances + widest tyre spot?

Thanks


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

bombermate said:


> Sweet bike! What tyres are those? Can you measure up some clearances + widest tyre spot?
> 
> Thanks


They're Vee Rubber H-Billie (as per the pics).

They're only labeled 4.25 so there should be tons of room.


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

I ordered a glossy finish on a fb-010 120 BSA (looks the same as the Ican sn01 frame). Is there any bottom bracket prep, like facing required?


----------



## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Anyone taking odds and how long until we see a fully suspended fat frames out of these frame sellers? I'll be very tempted to order one and guinea pig it.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

gi02sl said:


> I ordered a glossy finish on a fb-010 120 BSA (looks the same as the Ican sn01 frame). Is there any bottom bracket prep, like facing required?


Not on the carbon no. They are all ready to go.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

WSUPolar said:


> Anyone taking odds and how long until we see a fully suspended fat frames out of these frame sellers? I'll be very tempted to order one and guinea pig it.


I was thinking the same today


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Actually got home while it was still daylight, so took her outside for a photo, then a quick weigh in, 12.4kg, pretty happy, thinking about going split-tube tubeless but it's a while away, lve got to get some kms on her first.



I then bled the brakes and rerouted the gear cable, it now enters the frame on the left and exits on the right, lm happier with it like that , all thats left is to cut the steerer which hopefully will happen on Saturday.


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Why split tube ? are they not tubeless ready wheels ?


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Nice. I have mine routed that same way, in the left out right.

Ditto on the split tube - that's a waste. All you need is a tiny strip of gorilla tape over the spoke holes and its tubeless.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Another note... I hope you weren't riding like shown in the picture? you need to have preload on the headset using the steer tube plug and the plug should be where the stem clamps, so it has something inside the carbon steerer to put pressure on. What you have going on there looks like a recipe to snap the steerer as it looks like you have the plug on top.


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

friliver16 said:


> My IP-N019 is just arrived.
> Weight full assembled 10.7 kg.
> Tomorrow i will bleed the rear brake and i will test the bike.


Sweet bike! What tyres are those? Can you measure up some clearances + widest tyre spot?

Thanks



Swerny said:


> They're Vee Rubber H-Billie (as per the pics).
> 
> They're only labeled 4.25 so there should be tons of room.


I am asking so I can measure up the largest tyre that will fit not if the 4.25s will fit :O
How about it, friliver16


----------



## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

bombermate said:


> Sweet bike! What tyres are those? Can you measure up some clearances + widest tyre spot?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ...


http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/true-tire-size-thread-894949.html


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

mortenste said:


> Why split tube ? are they not tubeless ready wheels ?





duggus said:


> Nice. I have mine routed that same way, in the left out right.
> 
> Ditto on the split tube - that's a waste. All you need is a tiny strip of gorilla tape over the spoke holes and its tubeless.


oh ok, shows how much research into going tubeless Ive done 



duggus said:


> Another note... I hope you weren't riding like shown in the picture? you need to have preload on the headset using the steer tube plug and the plug should be where the stem clamps, so it has something inside the carbon steerer to put pressure on. What you have going on there looks like a recipe to snap the steerer as it looks like you have the plug on top.


Its ok, I realise how its all supposed to go, but I wont be able to cut the steerer until this weekend, I may have had a little 30sec ride in the driveway :nono:


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

duggus said:


> You will usually always need spacers. You aren't going to know how many until you decide where you want your stem on the steerer. The SN01 has a shorter headtube than I wanted, so I have a 20 and a 5 mm spacer that is going to go on top of the 15mm rise tall cap.
> 
> Mine is currently like this:
> View attachment 971884


Duggus, do you know if this headset+spacers will fit and if its a good idea?

Cane Creek AER Headset Spacer
https://fairwheelbikes.com/cane-creek-aer-headset-spacer-p-5711.html

KCNC Morion M1 Headset
https://fairwheelbikes.com/kcnc-morion-m1-headset-p-1893.html

Or

KCNC Radiant R1 Headset
https://fairwheelbikes.com/kcnc-radiant-r1-headset-p-1977.html

Thanks mate


----------



## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

bombermate said:


> Duggus, do you know if this headset+spacers will fit and if its a good idea?
> 
> Cane Creek AER Headset Spacer
> https://fairwheelbikes.com/cane-creek-aer-headset-spacer-p-5711.html
> ...


As far as I can tell neither of those are the right size headset. And if you are running a carbon fork do not install A star nut into the steerer. I used the headset that came with my frame. One of those headsets is 325.00??? That's insane.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bombermate said:


> Duggus, do you know if this headset+spacers will fit and if its a good idea?
> 
> Cane Creek AER Headset Spacer
> https://fairwheelbikes.com/cane-creek-aer-headset-spacer-p-5711.html
> ...


Not trying to be rude, just curious if have you built a bike before? You can get hurt if things aren't set up correctly, torqued properly, etc. 
I don't remember now if you said you had the SN01? It should come with a headset if you just want to use that. Mine has been fine but I want the taller top cap. For spacers - they don't necessarily "fit"... it's just dependent on how long you cut the steerer. Remember you also need to have 3-5mm of gap between the top of steerer and top of stem. A page or two back someone posted to me what the headset size is. I am just using the stock bottom bearing/race and then adding the cane creek top.


----------



## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)

Correct,
I bought these tires for riding on rocky trails.
I have chosen well or are there better tires?


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Cyclotoine said:


> yeah but if you buy wheels for that you are limited on what you can carry the wheels over too. In this case I would say you are better off saving and waiting and doing a complete build all at once. People love upgrading, but ultimately you'll spend way more money. Suck it up, ride what you have till you can afford a whole new rig. It's hard and take much self discipline, but you will become a Zen master. I have a loose 3 year rule. The full sus. and fat bike must be ridden for three seasons before a new bike is purchased and then I do the whole thing. I never do big upgrades on wheels or suspension. Just service what is there and ride it. It just doesn't pay. I play at the $4K+ level on my mountain bikes so I am getting a pretty darn good bike all around to begin with.
> 
> I have a 2014 Salsa Mukluk with two seasons. I am following chinese carbon closely and will likely build one next winter and sell the Muk part way through while the used demand is high.


I have to agree with this...upgrading is a waste.

I dipped my toe in the fatty pool by buying a cheap used, aluminum KHS.

Found out i loved fat biking....so was itching to upgrade it (carbon fork).

Decided that it wasn't worth it as I would still have a 135/170 bike....with QR's front and rear..crappy wheels and cranks...etc.

I'm now flipping my current bike, and may sell my 29er as well. If i sell both...then i'm going to build one of these Chinese Carbons (frame/fork/wheels) for year round use.

Unless i find a great deal on something used locally.

I've looked at the full builds from various brands and there's always something i don't like about them.....leading back to having to upgrade.

I'm looking at the under $3K price range

The SN01 is almost perfect to me....just needs a 150 mm width fork in case i go with a Bluto down the road.

Has anyone tried running another vendor's 150 MM carbon fork on the SN01?

The Yishun FM079 looks like it meets the specs, but not sure if it's Bluto-Able. I don't love the look of the top tube where it meets the head tube...(i'm really reaching on that one). Zero's bike is a beauty

Same with the IP-NO19...not sure a Bluto will clear.

I would jump all over the ICAN if it had a 150 MM fork


----------



## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

Swerny said:


> I have to agree with this...upgrading is a waste.
> 
> I dipped my toe in the fatty pool by buying a cheap used, aluminum KHS.
> 
> ...


Don't forget to look at geometry. A lot or people are fixed on hub spacing, tire clearance and bluto compatibility. I haven't checked in this week but to me the SN01 and any copies are a different beast than the others. The SN01 is a definitely a trail bike with fun manners, the other appear to have steep XC geometry. Factor in the type or manners you want your bike to have and choose accordingly.


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Cyclotoine said:


> Don't forget to look at geometry. A lot or people are fixed on hub spacing, tire clearance and bluto compatibility. I haven't checked in this week but to me the SN01 and any copies are a different beast than the others. The SN01 is a definitely a trail bike with fun manners, the other appear to have steep XC geometry. Factor in the type or manners you want your bike to have and choose accordingly.


very good point.

I love my Stache 8 so the SNO1 would likely fit the bill.

Maybe I'll just Bluto it from the get go and skip the carbon fork altogether...or go with the carbon and forget the Bluto!

I'm also 210 pounds, so the stronger the better


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

On the SN01 l notice a drain hole (l guess thats what it is?????)



but as can be seen, it is above the BB, therefore the BB can sit in water (eventually), especially after a wash as l have still two open cable holes...



I havent found any other drain holes as yet, am l missing something???
plus the drain hole that is there is maybe 2mm wide........not really good in mud 

anyone put (ie drilled) more drain holes?
the cable holes l think l may put some silicon in to seal them unless l can find something better


----------



## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

I drilled a 1/8" hole in my Ican for drainage.. No issues..


----------



## friliver16 (Jan 23, 2015)




----------



## zero85ZEN (Feb 11, 2015)

Swerny said:


> The Yishun FM079 looks like it meets the specs, but not sure if it's Bluto-Able. I don't love the look of the top tube where it meets the head tube...(i'm really reaching on that one). Zero's bike is a beauty


Thanks Swerny! 

If anybody reading this is in the Indianapolis area and has a tapered steerer Bluto and a few hours some afternoon or evening we could find out once and for all if my frame works with it.

Or if someone could post a picture of a Bluto turned at 90 degrees with some measurements diagramed out...I might be able to measure and get an idea if one would fit a 17" FM079 frame.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Swerny said:


> The SN01 is almost perfect to me....just needs a 150 mm width fork in case i go with a Bluto down the road.
> 
> I would jump all over the ICAN if it had a 150 MM fork


You can get it with a 150 fork. Just ask. Others have posted they got it that way some pages back.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

hiss2 said:


> I drilled a 1/8" hole in my Ican for drainage.. No issues..


Everywhere I've read says this is a very bad idea. Carbon can be compromised by drilling or otherwise cutting it.

Its a carbon bike guys, after washing it pull the seatpost out and flip the light bike upside down and any tiny bit of water will drain out. But if you actually cover the open internal routing holes and put some m8 bolts in the rack mounts, you shouldn't have water getting in.


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

cmg71 said:


> On the SN01 l notice a drain hole (l guess thats what it is?????), but as can be seen, it is above the BB, therefore the BB can sit in water (eventually), especially after a wash as l have still two open cable holes...
> 
> I havent found any other drain holes as yet, am l missing something???
> plus the drain hole that is there is maybe 2mm wide........not really good in mud
> ...


The hole you found is most likely just a vent hole that allows air to escape from the frame when the internal bladder is inflated during the molding process. It's obviously not useful as a drain.

Drilling a small hole (1/16") in the center of the BB is not likely to compromise the frame strength in any way, but it will likely void any warranty. I would contact the manufacturer about it first, unless you're not concerned.

Removing the seatpost and turning the frame over is not likely to be very effective, since water can run into the downtube and chainstays. The BB is the only place on the frame where all tubes could drain.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> Removing the seatpost and turning the frame over is not likely to be very effective, since water can run into the downtube and chainstays. The BB is the only place on the frame where all tubes could drain.


That was my thought too.

as far as warranty goes.........my experience through my work with the Chinese is: warranty is finished once you have fully paid.........


----------



## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

Well I contacted USPS and they are telling me the frame never made it to JFK. I told them I heard they had been backlogged from the circumstances, and he told me not 30 days backlogged. Those that have ordered from XMI, where do I go from here? I don't want to be an ass about it, I just don't want to be screwed over.


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

waadate said:


> Well I contacted USPS and they are telling me the frame never made it to JFK. I told them I heard they had been backlogged from the circumstances, and he told me not 30 days backlogged. Those that have ordered from XMI, where do I go from here? I don't want to be an ass about it, I just don't want to be screwed over.


If you paid with paypal, you can always start a dispute as long as it hasn't been 45 days since you ordered. If you have more time in that 45 day window, I would give it a bit more time.


----------



## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> If you paid with paypal, you can always start a dispute as long as it hasn't been 45 days since you ordered. If you have more time in that 45 day window, I would give it a bit more time.


That makes sense. I'm just getting paranoid, things I ordered later have already arrived. I know other people have had good experiences with them, I suppose USPS could be dishonest with me to make it seem like it's not their fault it's been a month.


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Anyone have any experience with the SN03 from ICAN? Will a 12x197mm hub fit in the rear on that frame?


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

duggus said:


> Not trying to be rude, just curious if have you built a bike before? You can get hurt if things aren't set up correctly, torqued properly, etc.
> I don't remember now if you said you had the SN01? It should come with a headset if you just want to use that. Mine has been fine but I want the taller top cap. For spacers - they don't necessarily "fit"... it's just dependent on how long you cut the steerer. Remember you also need to have 3-5mm of gap between the top of steerer and top of stem. A page or two back someone posted to me what the headset size is. I am just using the stock bottom bearing/race and then adding the cane creek top.


Nope. I haven't built a bike before - this will be my first one. That's why Im crawling these forums and asking questions to make sure I learn how to get it done.

At the moment I am writing up a parts list to buy for the fatty - and I am thinking SN01 is the best one to choose.

So why do you need a taller top cap?



Swerny said:


> very good point.
> 
> I love my Stache 8 so the SNO1 would likely fit the bill.
> 
> ...


You can definitely get the SN01 with 150x15mm fork. I just got a reply a couple of days back from ICAN so go ahead and order one!


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Negotiator50 said:


> Anyone have any experience with the SN03 from ICAN? Will a 12x197mm hub fit in the rear on that frame?


I was just looking at that bike. Its a 190 rear end...so not unless the hubs are convertible.


----------



## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

JonL said:


> Built - Ridden - Amazing
> Build went well. Had to add washers to the brakes at the frame mounts to get the brakes to work how I wanted. Not a fan of the Carbon Handlebar that came with it... too narrow for a Fat Bike. Switched to Easton Havoc. Also not a fan or the set back seat post. Hard to get level and the set back causes my inner knee to his the frame. Solution was to move the saddle as far forward as possible. Might switch the seat post out eventually, but it is fine for now. No issues with the BB threads. Fork Set up was simple. I did have to swap the vale cap from top to the bottom to keep from hitting the down tube (just barely, but left a scratch.
> Wheels are true and tubeless set up was the easiest I have had in a long time. Used Gorilla Tape as a rim strip. Chosen Hubs are running very smooth. Rear is a bit loud, but I like it.
> On the trail, the bike flies. Geometry is perfect for the riding I like. Actually chose this frame because the head angle and seat tube angle are close to my custom bike.
> View attachment 924229


Any more info on this China suspension fork? Did you have any isues with it yet, and where can I buy one?
If I understand right I can use this with 142 through hub but uses a through axle with a nut on the end instead of screwing into the shock.


----------



## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Windigo said:


> Any more info on this China suspension fork? Did you have any isues with it yet, and where can I buy one?
> If I understand right I can use this with 142 through hub but uses a through axle with a nut on the end instead of screwing into the shock.


It seems this fork is one of those "best kept secrets"... Or is it urban legend? ;-)

If it does exist, where are they available and how much are people paying for them?


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Just for info, this was my first ever bike build

Well the first ride went well, really well in fact :thumbsup:, I did need to stop a few times to tighten some bolts , and an axle  but those sort of things are somewhat expected on the first ride.
34.7kms and 898m elevation, did a bit of playing with tyre pressure, and currently l am finding 8.5psi a good compromise for road & trails, for the snow I rode in you would definitely go lower although I didnt because pumping them up later would've sucked.

so Im a happy camper :grinning-





Will do the 40km work commute tomorrow on it


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

bombermate said:


> Nope. I haven't built a bike before - this will be my first one. That's why Im crawling these forums and asking questions to make sure I learn how to get it done.
> 
> At the moment I am writing up a parts list to buy for the fatty - and I am thinking SN01 is the best one to choose.
> 
> ...


im not trying to be mean or anything. if you never build a bike before or dont have a lot of experience working on cars, bikes or bicycles. a carbon fiber bike might not be the best choice for first bike build. because you have a very vague idea of how much torque to put on things. if you use a torque wrench buy a digital one so you dont ended setting the mechanical one at the wrong torque which happens quick often in these forums.

i personally am still super careful when torquing bolts down on carbon frame given im a car mechanic and has build many bikes. so be patient if it comes to that you should be fine.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> Just for info, this was my first ever bike build
> 
> Well the first ride went well, really well in fact :thumbsup:, I did need to stop a few times to tighten some bolts , and an axle  but those sort of things are somewhat expected on the first ride.
> 34.7kms and 898m elevation, did a bit of playing with tyre pressure, and currently l am finding 8.5psi a good compromise for road & trails, for the snow I rode in you would definitely go lower although I didnt because pumping them up later would've sucked.
> ...


Lookin good. That's a lot of seatpost, you must be a tall dude.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

bombermate said:


> Nope. I haven't built a bike before - this will be my first one. That's why Im crawling these forums and asking questions to make sure I learn how to get it done.
> 
> Hey Bomb I don't know why people are giving you a hard time for asking questions. I have never built a bike from the ground up either and so I did a lot of research using this forum, and watching YouTube videos for helpful hints and tips. Keep the questions coming that's what this forum is for. Don't go out and bUy a torque wrench you don't need one to build a bike, none of this is rocket science and I'm sure you are doing just fine.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

there is a reason people just all mentioned torque here


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

akacoke said:


> there is a reason people just all mentioned torque here


What are we torquing that we need a torque wrench?


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Slowmopopo said:


> What are we torquing that we need a torque wrench?


Seriously? Nearly every bolt on the bike.

Bomb - if its your first build, a hardtail is always best. Just take your time and research it all for sure before you do anything. YouTube videos are great teachers. Cranks are easier than they used to be... but chainline and derailleur/gear adjustment gets tricky.

ALWAYS use a torque wrench unless you want a Wal-Mart quality build. You will most likely need 2 - a click style one for low torque and then the rod style ones for high torque.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Slowmopopo said:


> What are we torquing that we need a torque wrench?


like i posted initially, for someone is not experienced a carbon fiber bike is not a good choice. becasue the frame material is less forgiving, it could crack or develop crack later on if a bolt is over torqued. since he is new, he might do what most noobs do which is getting a torque wrench. ive seen quiet a few people complaint about not getting the torque wrench setting and **** something up


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

So you torque every bolt. Ok what's the torque spec for these bolts? Don't mean to take you guys to task but with out torque specs you can not accurately torque anything. Now if you want to make up a torque spec for each and every bolt that's fine but keep in mind that there isn't anything on these bike that is critical enough to worry about the torque especially when you don't have a spec to start with. Just get it tight but don't over tighten.I have been an certified auto technician for over 15 years I must have a feel for how tight bolt should be. Telling a guy who is new to building a bike to use a torque wrench is ridiculous. If a guy asks questions then give answers that will help him, don't criticize him. I built mine with out a single torque wrench, guess what? Nothing is falling off and I didn't strip anything out. Must be lucky! All anyone really needs to do is be carful when putting things together and after a few rides double check all bolts to make sure they're tight. Take the money you didn't waste on torque wrenches and buy more bike parts.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Slowmopopo said:


> Lookin good. That's a lot of seatpost, you must be a tall dude.


Thats the 20 inch SN01, l measured it up when it got here because it looked small, lm 6"3' but mostly legs


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Slowmopopo said:


> So you torque every bolt. Ok what's the torque spec for these bolts? Don't mean to take you guys to task but with out torque specs you can not accurately torque anything. Now if you want to make up a torque spec for each and every bolt that's fine but keep in mind that there isn't anything on these bike that is critical enough to worry about the torque especially when you don't have a spec to start with. Just get it tight but don't over tighten.I have been an certified auto technician for over 15 years I must have a feel for how tight bolt should be. Telling a guy who is new to building a bike to use a torque wrench is ridiculous. If a guy asks questions then give answers that will help him, don't criticize him. I built mine with out a single torque wrench, guess what? Nothing is falling off and I didn't strip anything out. Must be lucky! All anyone really needs to do is be carful when putting things together and after a few rides double check all bolts to make sure they're tight. Take the money you didn't waste on torque wrenches and buy more bike parts.


do you even read before you start ramble on? go back and read carefully what i said, i never suggested getting a torque wrench.

you did not **** anything up is becasue you are a mechanic for 15 years.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Every part I bought has torque specs. You're telling me you really didn't tighten the bottom bracket to spec? Crank? Stem? I mean you have a nice looking build but man that is poor building practice. There is a reason bike and auto manufacturers have torque specs. Its not just a get it tight deal always. Its not ridiculous either to tell someone building for the first time to get a $40 torque wrench over telling them to just tighten it. That's a recipe for cracking things carbon, aluminum, or other.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

akacoke said:


> do you even read before you start ramble on? go back and read carefully what i said, i never suggested getting a torque wrench.
> 
> you did not **** anything up is becasue you are a mechanic for 15 years.


You suggested using a torque wrench when is absolutely not needed to put a bike together carbon or alum. The dude is learning, do you think he has torque wrenches laying around? All I'm saying is both you and Duggus question his ability instead of answering his question to help him.

The other thing is there is only like three things that bolt directly to the frame that you can torque. The brake calipers, font and rear rack or water bottle cage. So even if a noob had a torque wrench how would he know what to set the torque too? Also I would never suggest that he isn't experienced enough to work on a carbon frame, give me break, it's a bike not a space ship.

Ps. I like to ramble on.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

duggus said:


> Every part I bought has torque specs. You're telling me you really didn't tighten the bottom bracket to spec? Crank? Stem? I mean you have a nice looking build but man that is poor building practice. There is a reason bike and auto manufacturers have torque specs. Its not just a get it tight deal always. Its not ridiculous either to tell someone building for the first time to get a $40 torque wrench over telling them to just tighten it. That's a recipe for cracking things carbon, aluminum, or other.


So I suppose you torqued these items to spec as well, thru-axles, brake calipers, seat post collar, stem to steerer tube, seat bolts, headset bearing preload, water bottle cage, brake levers, shifters, grips (bolt on style). All those items are important but most do not have a torque specs.

What are you going to do in the future when you take your bike apart and you don't have the torque specs for those items? Buy all new parts? Do you think the bike mechanics at your local bike shop have torque specs for all the different components and bikes they work on? Yes some things do have torque specs and many things do not. So what do you do when you don't have a spec? All I'm saying is my bike isn't going to fall apart or is somehow poorly built because I didn't torque everything to spec.

My point is this dude has questions let's not suggest that he doesn't know what he is doing. If you can help Bomb buy answering his questions than just answer them.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Slowmopopo said:


> You suggested using a torque wrench when is absolutely not needed to put a bike together carbon or alum. The dude is learning, do you think he has torque wrenches laying around? All I'm saying is both you and Duggus question his ability instead of answering his question to help him.
> 
> The other thing is there is only like three things that bolt directly to the frame that you can torque. The brake calipers, font and rear rack or water bottle cage. So even if a noob had a torque wrench how would he know what to set the torque too? Also I would never suggest that he isn't experienced enough to work on a carbon frame, give me break, it's a bike not a space ship.
> 
> Ps. I like to ramble on.


wow. you sure did not read what i said in the first post. you said exactly what i worried about. go back and look. i said *if *this guy wants a torque wrench make sure he gets a digital one so he doesnt mess up the torque setting on the mechanical one.

im gonna say this on the record. im a service advisor now. but i used to be a mechanic for a very well known japanese car manufacturer now. ive moved around shops brands. 99% times i dont use torque wrench not on my own cars. i probably only used it for headbolts. shop foreman. master mechanics are the same way. everyone from top to bottom is the same way. becasue we have a good idea of how much torque to put on a bolt.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

and you also missed other important fasteners on bikes. stem cap bolt that preload the beaings on to headtube. stem clamp botls on the carbon steerer tubes. front derailleuer clamp bolt , seat post clamp bolt. bottom bracket. 

to a noob on a carbon frame. of any of these are over torqed, it will crack the frame


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

akacoke said:


> wow. you sure did not read what i said in the first post. you said exactly what i worried about. go back and look. i said *if *this guy wants a torque wrench make sure he gets a digital one so he doesnt mess up the torque setting on the mechanical one.
> 
> im gonna say this on the record. im a service advisor now. but i used to be a mechanic for a very well known japanese car manufacturer now. ive moved around shops brands. 99% times i dont use torque wrench not on my own cars. i probably only used it for headbolts. shop foreman. master mechanics are the same way. everyone from top to bottom is the same way. becasue we have a good idea of how much torque to put on a bolt.


I get what you're saying. Not trying to give you ****. My point is for most things there is no torque spec so it doesn't matter if he had a torque wrench or not. If he does his research and asks questions he will be fine. Putting a bike together is extremely easy even if you're a noob.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

akacoke said:


> and you also missed other important fasteners on bikes. stem cap bolt that preload the beaings on to headtube. stem clamp botls on the carbon steerer tubes. front derailleuer clamp bolt , seat post clamp bolt. bottom bracket.
> 
> to a noob on a carbon frame. of any of these are over torqed, it will crack the frame


Yes but most of that stuff you have to tighten by feel. A torque wrench wouldn't help. You would really have to over tighten that stuff to do damage. Only thing you really have to be careful is the seat post collar and also needs to be tightened by feel and you ,must use carbon paste. These frames have a tendency to crack at the clamp.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Look like a few people like ICANs


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

When you're a seasoned / experienced (bike) mechanic and you're used to wielding spanners. It *seems* easy for a "noob" to put a bike "together". 
For a "noob" to put a bike together *safely* perhaps it would be prudent to suggest purchasing a torque wrench and tightening things to their recommended torque. But *also* explaining why it should be done _just so_.

From experience *most *but NOT* all* parts bolted to a bike *do* have torque requirements. It's just knowing where to look / ask.

Perhaps this reference might be a good start Torque Specifications - Bicycle Tutor
Other options are available though, even asking here might be one of them 

Not trying to be a di©k here just trying to help a fellow biker or two. 

Fat Biker


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Slowmopopo said:


> Yes but most of that stuff you have to tighten by feel. A torque wrench wouldn't help. You would really have to over tighten that stuff to do damage. Only thing you really have to be careful is the seat post collar and also needs to be tightened by feel and you ,must use carbon paste. These frames have a tendency to crack at the clamp.


Do you even look at the instructions that come with the components you buy? Almost everything comes with torque specs and in many cases, the specs are even printed on the parts or the bolt heads. Many small bolts have standardized torque specs, which is why you can buy fixed setting torque keys for 5nm and 6 nm. There are very few instances where you have to go by feel for lack of torque specs.

For someone with reasonable mechanical aptitude and expertise, you're correct that a torque wrench is not an absolute necessity. When I was in in the bike biz, I literally built thousands of bikes without one and repaired thousands more. However, I also saw the damage that inexperienced and/or ham-fisted people can do and I made my share of mistakes while learning, too.

Back then, bikes were predominantly steel and aluminum, which are more tolerant of torque mistakes than carbon fiber. These days, I use a torque wrench a lot, particularly anywhere that carbon fiber gets clamped (stem bolts, seatpost bolts, front derailleur clamp bolts, etc.). I also used Loctite on nearly everything (typically #222 or #242, depending on the bolt size and retention needs).

My point is twofold: First, bikes have changed and using a torque wrench is more important than it used to be. Second, the people who _need_ a torque wrench the most to prevent errors are _beginners_ who haven't got the experience or feel that mechanics develop over time.

I can certainly build a bike without a torque wrench and would do so if I didn't have one. I'm equally certain that it would work fine and be safe. However, if I didn't have the experience and feel that I do, I would definitely want a torque wrench.


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## FloriDave (Jul 15, 2009)

Super nice looking. Still riding good? Can you give us some details on frame / components?



cmg71 said:


> Just for info, this was my first ever bike build
> 
> Well the first ride went well, really well in fact :thumbsup:, I did need to stop a few times to tighten some bolts , and an axle  but those sort of things are somewhat expected on the first ride.
> 34.7kms and 898m elevation, did a bit of playing with tyre pressure, and currently l am finding 8.5psi a good compromise for road & trails, for the snow I rode in you would definitely go lower although I didnt because pumping them up later would've sucked.
> ...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

Do any of you know a Chinese carbon frame with 170 rear?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

FloriDave said:


> Super nice looking. Still riding good? Can you give us some details on frame / components?


The posts in this thread you want to read are: 2603, 2637-2640 & 2652 :thumbsup: lots of info about my build.

What's not listed is:
SLX Brakes
XT Shifter & Derailleur
SLX Cassette & Chain
el cheapo grips with red locking tabs

thats pretty much it.......


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

do any of these come in 12k patterns ?


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

hiss2 said:


> I drilled a 1/8" hole in my Ican for drainage.. No issues..





duggus said:


> Everywhere I've read says this is a very bad idea. Carbon can be compromised by drilling or otherwise cutting it.
> 
> Its a carbon bike guys, after washing it pull the seatpost out and flip the light bike upside down and any tiny bit of water will drain out. But if you actually cover the open internal routing holes and put some m8 bolts in the rack mounts, you shouldn't have water getting in.


Ehh, still gotta disagree, its .125" hole, there's no way its gonna compromise anything directly in the middle of that massive 120mm bb junction.. And water/melting snow/ice definitely gets in mine from the seatpost area, im assuming. there is a lot of aluminum parts bonded the that carbon frame, particularly in the bb area, that id rather not have potential salty corrosive water sitting there.. but that's just my opinion..

I didn't even gonna bother reading all the torque wrench rant posts.. but i will comment that i built mine, and many other bikes over the years without one at all, despite me own two high end ones.. occasionally i'll use them on key areas like suspension pivots, i dont want binding, or maybe stem to carbon bars sometimes.. but if youre somewhat competent mechanically its not a huge deal..


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

hiss2 said:


> Ehh, still gotta disagree, its .125" hole, there's no way its gonna compromise anything directly in the middle of that massive 120mm bb junction.. And water/melting snow/ice definitely gets in mine from the seatpost area, im assuming. there is a lot of aluminum parts bonded the that carbon frame, particularly in the bb area, that id rather not have potential salty corrosive water sitting there.. but that's just my opinion..
> 
> I didn't even gonna bother reading all the torque wrench rant posts.. but i will comment that i built mine, and many other bikes over the years without one at all, despite me own two high end ones.. occasionally i'll use them on key areas like suspension pivots, i dont want binding, or maybe stem to carbon bars sometimes.. but if youre somewhat competent mechanically its not a huge deal..


No torque wrench? Than you have a poorly built bike like mine and yes I agree drilling a small drain hole in the BB will not hurt.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Jesus you guys, get all butthurt. Bnystrom basically answered for me. My point ALSO was to help a first time builder (and I have in PMs). Telling a first time builder to not use a torque wrench is worse advice if you ask me, but eh, whatever, its indestructible carbon right, tighten away!


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

So I emailed Ican for some pricing, in particular this complete build SN03:

2015 Golden fat bike SN03 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

$3030 USD.

Duggus was correct, you can get the 150 mm fork on the SN01.

The deore level build sn01 complete painted is $1685 USD.

It's cheaper buying direct than through eBay or aliexpress.

I sold my KHS last night so I'm in the market again.

Does anyone have a SNO3?

With the 190 rear end vs 197 on the sn01, will if fit bud and Lou on the 90 mm rims?


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

For some reason, I don't work for Iplay anymore, I was a founder of Iplay and used to own Iplay with Bert and another partner , I offered most energy and time on Iplay but you know... So I divest my holdings from Iplay and my wife Bella quit from Iplay as well. Now I am establishing my own new company and will sell same products as before, even more new items, My own new company will be established in 25-35 days, name will be carbonspeed or something.

I can send you guys what you need now as well if I have the items available in stock.

Now we have some 010 frame 170 and 190 thru axle type (same as ICAN SN03) and 018 frame (same as ICAN SN01) in UD matt in stock.

I will make FS carbon fat bike frame this year, you will see.

Please feel free to contact me via my own email: [email protected]

Skype: peterxu1206


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Swerny said:


> So I emailed Ican for some pricing, in particular this complete build SN03:
> 
> 2015 Golden fat bike SN03 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> ...


*SN01 build for $1685????* think you hit a 1 instead of a 2..... SN01 Complete Bike and dont forget to add in delivery.

I would also not buy directly from ICAN (not sure if you even can), only from a safety point of view, I would definately use ebay or aliexpress, at least you have some recourse if it all goes sour.

From my research regarding getting Bud & Lou in my SN01 Frame (197mm) with 90mm rims, it would be tight but probably work depending on tubed or tubeless, then when mud riding which I will do the possibility of mud/stones scraping/wearing the seatstay/chainstay was too big for me, in the end I decided not to risk it, but if someone has pics of Bud & Lou and can post measurements I may change my mind and get them next time.
Therefore I doubt that they would fit in a smaller width frame.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

PeterXu said:


> I will make FS carbon fat bike frame this year, you will see.
> 
> Please feel free to contact me via my own email: [email protected]
> 
> Skype: peterxu1206


Commiserations to you Peter and your wife Bella for feeling you had to leave the company you helped set up. It must have been a tough decision ?

I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on the formation of your new company and wish you well and great success.

I would like to ask you regarding your promised full suspension fat bike, would you be prepared to ask forum members (here and on other sites) for their input on what they would like to see in the design ? Or have you finalised the design already and you're just waiting for the molds to be produced ?

fat Biker


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Fat Biker said:


> Commiserations to you Peter and your wife Bella for feeling you had to leave the company you helped set up. It must have been a tough decision ?
> 
> I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on the formation of your new company and wish you well and great success.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much FB. I like the design of Salsa Bucksaw. And I am asking our designer to draw now, sizes might be 16''/18''/20''.

Of course I would like your input and want to know what kind of design you guys would like.

These are some points of my thoughts: 100mm BB, 197x12 TA rear end, max tire size would be 4.8'' or 5.0'', and 100mm Rockshox Bluto fork fitting.

I want to offer the very things you need and like.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

PeterXu said:


> Thank you so much FB. I like the design of Salsa Bucksaw. And I am asking our designer to draw now, sizes might be 16''/18''/20''.
> 
> Of course I would like your input and want to know what kind of design you guys would like.
> 
> ...


Thanks Peter.

Here are some of my thoughts. Hopefully others will suggest things too.

197x12 - To help reduce unwanted flex in the rear triangle due to having the suspension pivots .

120mm BB - So you can have wider main pivot bearings, again to reduce unwanted flex in the rear / less loading on the bearings. Also *possibly* a better chainline with a 197mm rear ? 
Having a 120mm BB would also mean you would ba able to make more room inbetween the chain stays for a 5.0" tyre. 
You can always fit a narrower tyre if you like. But with a small gap between the chainstays (using a 100mm BB) you might not be able to fit a big tyre. This would make the frame more attractive to more people in my opinion due to being able to fit a wider choice of tyres 

If you read the forums a lot of people are wanting to run 5.0" tyres (Surly Bud /Lou 4.8" don't usually fit in a 4.8" frame they need a 5.0" frame ?)

Also when using Bud/Lou tyres people seem to be finding that a 120mm BB is needed for the chain to clear the tyre in the lowest gear.

Would you also please consider putting the rear pivot on the chainstay instead of on the seatstay (like it is the carbon 29er) please ? This is open to much debate but some opinions suggest it makes for a better suspension action due to it not being susceptible to braking forces, it remains active whilst braking and doesn't lock the suspension up.

I think aiming for a 100mm Bluto capable front end is a good call, provided the head angle isn't too slack or too steep. 
Too steep and people would need to go to a 120mm Bluto to get the steering to feel stable at speed, too shallow and they would need to drop the Bluto to 80mm to speed the steering up in single track twisties. This is a massive "can of worms" that is very personal to each rider. As I said trying to sort things out starting with a 100mm Bluto is a good middle of the road compromise for most people.

The Bucksaw also looks like a good template to base your ideas on too.

Thanks for allowing us some input. Hopefully others will come up with better ideas and reasons for doing so shortly.

Fat Biker


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## thunderzy (Jul 23, 2010)

^ all great suggestions there.


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Fat Biker said:


> Thanks Peter.
> 
> 120mm BB - So you can have wider main pivot bearings, again to reduce unwanted flex in the rear / less loading on the bearings. Also *possibly* a better chainline with a 197mm rear ?
> Having a 120mm BB would also mean you would ba able to make more room inbetween the chain stays for a 5.0" tyre.
> You can always fit a narrower tyre if you like. But with a small gap between the chainstays (using a 100mm BB) you might not be able to fit a big tyre. This would make the frame more attractive to more people in my opinion due to being able to fit a wider choice of tyres


I strongly disagree with the 120mm BB idea. It reduces compatibility and options with no significant benefit--terrible idea which will reduce sales. Spindle length and chain-stay spacing, not BB width determines chain-line and clearance.


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Well there go those odds.... 

Thanks Peter. This is phenomenal news in that you are looking into it and taking into account our feedback on the design.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Lars_D said:


> I strongly disagree with the 120mm BB idea. It reduces compatibility and options with no significant benefit--terrible idea which will reduce sales. Spindle length and chain-stay spacing, not BB width determines chain-line and clearance.


Whilst I agree with *some* of your statement I would have to disagree with your point on a 120mm having "no significant benefit"

The only thing I can see a 120mm BB breaking compatibility with is the crank *if* you already own 100mm spindle crank .

Yet limiting the BB to 100mm would surely limit the width at which you could space the "main" pivot bearings ?
Increased distance between bearings on a rotating spindle (pivot or BB axle) would reduce wear/load and prolong bearing life would it not ? 
Is this not one of the main reasons we have external bearing BB's ?

There are other things besides spindle length that affect chainline . Position of the ring on the spider , spacers between ring and spider , and type of crank to name a few .

I did say in my statement that it (a 120mm BB) could *possibly* provide a better chainline in combination with a 197mm rear dropout spacing . The key word here is possibly .

Fat Biker

P.S. I don't want to derail this thread anymore than has been already so here's the link to *hopefully* continue this discussion

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/chinese-carbon-full-suspension-fat-bike-958821.html


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Don't worry guys I am getting a torque wrench. I hear ya slowmopopo, thanks for encouraging words.
But I cant see myself spending over $120 on a digital one though... so I am gonna stick with a mechanical version.

Just so you know, I ordered a whole bunch of parts from ICAN - including a 150mm fork. So unless I got scammed they do have them available.

Now onto buying the rest of the parts!

Does anyone have any ideas where to buy a BSA30 bottom bracket tool on the cheap?
They are almost as expensive (delivered) as the BB shell itself from Raceface!


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Amazon has them for $13-24 depending on the seller and brand.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

bombermate said:


> Does anyone have any ideas where to buy a BSA30 bottom bracket tool on the cheap?
> They are almost as expensive (delivered) as the BB shell itself from Raceface!


Hi Bomber

Unfortunately when I looked recently (here in the UK) it was all a much of a muchness with the pricing. A £2 - £3 difference at most.

But what I will say is *beware* as not all BSA30 BB's are the same. I was under the impression that they were. 
As in it is/was a "standard". 
I couldn't find a blingy Raceface BSA30 BB anywhere (read coloured - other than black ) so I bought a red Token BSA30 BB. Not realising that the Raceface tool (which I had previously bought) wouldn't fit. It was 1 - 2 mm diameter too small. So I ended up waiting a further 2 weeks for the *specific* Token BSA30 tool to come from China. 

Moral here is, whatever bb you decide to get go for the appropriate tool from the same manufacturer. It might just save you some time and $'s 

Fat Biker


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## BikePhat (Mar 9, 2015)

*N019 Build with Ground Control*









Ground Control upgrade. :thumbsup:


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

BikePhat said:


> Ground Control upgrade. :thumbsup:


noisey arent they.......
Im gonna try my Chaoyangs soon, hopefully theyll be quieter, lm frankly getting sick of the attention.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

cmg71 said:


> *
> 
> I would also not buy directly from ICAN (not sure if you even can), only from a safety point of view, I would definately use ebay or aliexpress, at least you have some recourse if it all goes sour.*


*

Why not order direct? Its what this entire thread is about and that's what seems like all of us who own one have done. I can't say enough positive things about how they came through for me. Yishunbike told me no way they would get mine out before the Chinese new year, ICAN told me no problem. They shipped out the next day and I got a week later. That's like magic.*


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

I just installed my turbine crankset on an FM190. Cranks feel smooth, but dont really "freely" spin. They just drag down. Anyone else experience this? Yes, I used a torque wrench!


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

new bearings often feel this way as they could be packed with some sticky grease. most of my pedals when new act this way also


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

fishwrinkle said:


> new bearings often feel this way as they could be packed with some sticky grease. most of my pedals when new act this way also


Thanks. Video for reference.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

msedbaue said:


> Thanks. Video for reference.


 Msedbaue somethings not right there. That's not just sticky grease. Have you installed the plastic bearing shield sleeve ? If so try removing it altogether and see what things are like then . There have been some reports of it binding on the spindle for some reason . The majority of those with the binding issue are leaving the tube out altogether. A few are persevering are refitting till the binding has gone. 
Alternatively you could try backing the preload ring off a touch, that could also be a cause.

HTH ?

Fat Biker


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Fat Biker said:


> Msedbaue somethings not right there. That's not just sticky grease. Have you installed the plastic bearing shield sleeve ? If so try removing it altogether and see what things are like then . There have been some reports of it binding on the spindle for some reason . The majority of those with the binding issue are leaving the tube out altogether. A few are persevering are refitting till the binding has gone.
> Alternatively you could try backing the preload ring off a touch, that could also be a cause.
> 
> HTH ?
> ...


Thanks for the info. Yes, I have the plastic sleeve in there right now. Ill try a refit.

Mitch


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

definitely too much preload on the cups. use spindle shims to get correct preload.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

I loosened up the preload and it got a bit better. I installed the shims per raceface.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

I need some sizing help for an Ican SN01 if you guys dont mind.

I am torn between the small and medium for the SN01. The best comparison I have is a Framed Alaskan Carbon that my buddy has. He put a 40mm stem on the size 17 and it feels perfect with the following geometry:









I am debating between the 16 and 18 for the Ican. While the effective top tube of the size 17 Framed is equal to the size 18 SN01, the reach of the size 17 Framed matches the reach of the size 16 SN01. See SN01 geo:









For reference, I am just under 5'9 with a standover of 29. I have longer arms as my sleeve length on button down shirts is 34. I also plan on putting a 40mm stem on the SN01.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Negotiator50 said:


> I need some sizing help for an Ican SN01 if you guys dont mind.
> 
> For reference, I am just under 5'9 with a standover of 29. I have longer arms as my sleeve length on button down shirts is 34. I also plan on putting a 40mm stem on the SN01.


Do you have a current bike that fits?

If you do, get the geo of that and compare it to the SN01 specs to see which size it matches best


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

msedbaue said:


> I loosened up the preload and it got a bit better. I installed the shims per raceface.


raceface spindle interface its tricky to set up. the crank bolt should be tightened all the way to a hard stop. when you torque it, you should have no play side to side with a smooth crank rotoation. you should be able to keep spinning it several turns at least with ease.

because frames are not build always perfect on spec, it makes hard to adjust. i personally perfect shimano saint/zee/fsa type of crank interface. super easy to setup


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

akacoke said:


> raceface spindle interface its tricky to set up. the crank bolt should be tightened all the way to a hard stop. when you torque it, you should have no play side to side with a smooth crank rotoation. you should be able to keep spinning it several turns at least with ease.
> 
> because frames are not build always perfect on spec, it makes hard to adjust. i personally perfect shimano saint/zee/fsa type of crank interface. super easy to setup


Thanks for the info. After loosing up the preload it makes 1.5 rotations when turned gently. It feels like this will be OK. My other bikes do spin "freer," but I think it should be fine.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Swerny said:


> Do you have a current bike that fits?
> 
> If you do, get the geo of that and compare it to the SN01 specs to see which size it matches best


I do but the reach number matches the size 16 SN01 and the top tube number matches the size 18 SN01. Based on that, which size is better?


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

go by reach and stack, that is what i would go by


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

I went through Shenzhen Baolijia Sports Equipment Co., Ltd. - carbon bicycle frame,bicycle frame for a FM190 frame and wheels. So far, the frame, fork, seatpost, and headset have all arrived. Still waiting on wheels. Everything looked great. Very well packaged. Shipped on March 6th arrived on March 18th.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Cool.......
did they throw in some free cat toys as well?


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Negotiator50 said:


> I do but the reach number matches the size 16 SN01 and the top tube number matches the size 18 SN01. Based on that, which size is better?


The framed is figured with a much longer fork length and head tube combination which moves the top of the head tube back towards the bottom bracket making a shorter reach. Depending on how high you want your handlebars this may not be a meaningful number. The top tube in this case is probably more of an apples to apples comparison.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

cmg71 said:


> Cool.......
> did they throw in some free cat toys as well?


Those would be the dogs toys, but yes. I had a little helper.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Any chance anyone in here has an Icann SN01 in a size 16 or 18 in Michigan? Before ordering one, I want to make sure I am getting the correct size. I am in the metro Detroit area.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Negotiator50 said:


> Any chance anyone in here has an Icann SN01 in a size 16 or 18 in Michigan? Before ordering one, I want to make sure I am getting the correct size. I am in the metro Detroit area.


I can't help you with the Michigan thing, but I chose the 18" and I usually ride a 19" full suspension. I like a little smaller for fat bikes and the geo was perfect on this for me with a 70mm stem. If you are on the edge I would go with the smaller frame and get a longer stem and a setback seatpost if you need a little more reach. But just my 2 cents


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Hey guys I see all of your photos and wonder if I need to invest into a bike stand to build the bike? How essential is it? Can I build one without the stand? :O


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

You can do it all without a stand, 
but after you have used a stand you will never work on a bike again without using a stand.


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Haha OK!
I found a cheapie and ordered it for $45 

Another question to you bike gurus who got the SN01 wheels (90mm) with XX1 freehubs (thats what Melody from SN01 said they can come with): 

Will I need to by the SRAM XD Driver Body 11-speed before I can mount the cassette or will the wheels come ready for the install without needing the XD driver?


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Nevermind. Got a confirmation from Melody that the wheels will come with the XD driver body ready for the XX1 Cassette fitment.


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## thunderzy (Jul 23, 2010)

duggus said:


> I can't help you with the Michigan thing, but I chose the 18" and I usually ride a 19" full suspension. I like a little smaller for fat bikes and the geo was perfect on this for me with a 70mm stem. If you are on the edge I would go with the smaller frame and get a longer stem and a setback seatpost if you need a little more reach. But just my 2 cents


I'm also torn between sizes. I like to run a short stem. Do you recommend I go up a size?


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## Wintersux (Mar 22, 2015)

Hi all!!

Getting ready to build a fat bike!
Just wondering what the best set-up might be?
I'll be riding it everyday to work in the winter (snow and -30)

Any recommendations regarding frames and wheels would've appreciated!!
Fm079?
Fm190? 

Cheers!!


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

^^^^ start reading this thread


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Wintersux said:


> Hi all!!
> 
> Getting ready to build a fat bike!
> Just wondering what the best set-up might be?
> ...


First think about what kinda of geometry you would like, this thread will give you some ideas of what frames match your riding style. Plenty of thoughts on parts lists... It all depends on what you want to spend. For commuting you may consider smaller tires with less rolling resistance. I would do some research on tire threads. The best set-up really depends on what you want... ultra light, suspension, cost, etc. Lots to consider.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

*Chinese carbon fork update*

Been awhile, but wanted to give an update on the carbon fork from LT Bikes. Rode all spring and then in the winter (locked out). The fork was never"just right". I played with air pressure, tried getting word from China, but it was not how I wanted it. It worked, but was too firm, too soft, or stuck. I was tentative to break it down since I did not have a rebuild kit, but frustration got the best of me. To finish a long story, I removed the lowers expecting oil to pour out .... well nothing came out, not a drop. It was dry minus some grease. I think they used bearing grease as a lubricant. I cleaned it all up, added about 7 ml of fork oil. Put it all back together, and it works prefect now. Fortunately, there were no scratches on the stanctions, and the seals still work. 
If you do decide to buy this fork, do yourself a favor and rebuild it before riding.


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

JonL said:


> Been awhile, but wanted to give an update on the carbon fork from LT Bikes. Rode all spring and then in the winter (locked out). The fork was never"just right". I played with air pressure, tried getting word from China, but it was not how I wanted it. It worked, but was too firm, too soft, or stuck. I was tentative to break it down since I did not have a rebuild kit, but frustration got the best of me. To finish a long story, I removed the lowers expecting oil to pour out .... well nothing came out, not a drop. It was dry minus some grease. I think they used bearing grease as a lubricant. I cleaned it all up, added about 7 ml of fork oil. Put it all back together, and it works prefect now. Fortunately, there were no scratches on the stanctions, and the seals still work.
> If you do decide to buy this fork, do yourself a favor and rebuild it before riding.


.

Sweet. I was wondering where that fork was from (I recall seeing it in photos in this thread).
How mauch did you pay for the fork and who did you communicate with? What is its axle width? Any special tips to set it up - in addition to the rebuild that is..


----------



## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

After 35 days of waiting my frame finally showed up. Looks great, amazingly light. As I am putting it together i am looking for some insight from those who have run into this. My fork is chamfered at the crown. The o.d. of the steer tube at the crown is 46.95(mm). The i.d. of the race for the headset is 41.16. It is notched as some of you had done, however the chamfer doesn't even remotely match the inside of the race. Sorry to bring this up again 10 pages later but I'm not really clear on how to approach this correctly, as I've never owned a carbon anything.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

waadate said:


> After 35 days of waiting my frame finally showed up. Looks great, amazingly light. As I am putting it together i am looking for some insight from those who have run into this. My fork is chamfered at the crown. The o.d. of the steer tube at the crown is 46.95(mm). The i.d. of the race for the headset is 41.16. It is notched as some of you had done, however the chamfer doesn't even remotely match the inside of the race. Sorry to bring this up again 10 pages later but I'm not really clear on how to approach this correctly, as I've never owned a carbon anything.


Can you take a few pictures for reference?


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

I think this should help. The inside of the race is completely flat and the steer tube flares out at the bottom.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

waadate said:


> View attachment 975313
> 
> 
> I think this should help. The inside of the race is completely flat and the steer tube flares out at the bottom.


Can you just tap the crown race down onto the steerer tube? I had to just tap mine down a bit, but it went on.


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## Slowmopopo (Feb 14, 2015)

waadate said:


> View attachment 975311
> View attachment 975312
> View attachment 975313
> 
> ...


It's kind hard to tell from the picture but it looks like if you tap around the edge of the race with a rubber mallet it should go on. I do not like that the race has a cut in it. It's almost looks like maybe the race was too small so instead of manufacturing a race that fits they cut a slit in it.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Slowmopopo said:


> It's kind hard to tell from the picture but it looks like if you tap around the edge of the race with a rubber mallet it should go on. I do not like that the race has a cut in it. It's almost looks like maybe the race was too small so instead of manufacturing a race that fits they cut a slit in it.


Mine came with a slit in it as well. Thats just what they send.


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

I've tried using pvc to set it, and it didn't move a bit. And I'm afraid to really smack it for fear that it's going to shatter.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

I did not have to give mine too much force at all.


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

I figured that. If you look close at the race you can see that its perfectly flat like it is meant to go on a straight steer tube. And if you look at the steer tube at the very bottom it flares out, so i am trying to mate a 90 degree transition (race) to a 45 degree transition (fork). One of the two is wrong. Maybe just a headset thats not compatible?


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

WHOA WHOA WHOA! Everyone hold on here a second!

That fork has an integrated bearing race molded into it! Notice how the steer tube flares out at the crown at the same 45degree angle as the crown race? The bearing is supposed to sit directly on this!


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

And that is something I considered, do i need to do anything to protect the fork from any friction from the bearing? I would imagine at some point the bearing will spin and start to cut into the steer tube. Maybe not?

Edit: Nevermind, Page 97 it gets explained, apparently I didnt comprehend it completely when I first read that. Carry on.


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## robertbbr (Apr 18, 2006)

Loving my no 19. Super fun bike and lighter than I thought it would be

Brandon Brewer at Devil's Hole in Niagara Falls, New York, United States - photo by robertbbr - Pinkbike


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Yes, this sounds like the built in race like the other guy posted on here about. Even on a tapered the area the race sits should always be at a 90º angle. Stop pounding on it and check that there are no grooves or cuts in it now. I would give feedback to the manufacturer to either put a note with it or stop sending the race. What model was this?


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

There's no damage, I tried tapping it and when it didn't budge at all, I knew there was something wrong. It's the xmiplay fk-019 fat fork


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## ABL guitars (Nov 28, 2013)

Hi, guys! I'm planning to order an Ican SN-01 frameset and have some questions. Hope some of you can help.
First - does this frame clear 29+ wheel? It seems like the seat tube is bended to allow that. If someone have some experience or exact information, I'd be much appreciated.
And the second question, does a 120mm bsa bb allow to use a raceface cinch crankset with a 170 rear spacing spindle? As far as I understand, it's possible on a FM-190, so you can have a narrow Q-factor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

It's going to be the width of your chain stays that determines q-factor, not the spindle. I believe my frame is the same (different seller) with a 197 thru axle. I'm using a 190 spindle and it doesn't require many additional spacers. I'd be surprised if a 170 spindle worked, but I never tried.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

ABL guitars said:


> Hi, guys! I'm planning to order an Ican SN-01 frameset and have some questions. Hope some of you can help.
> First - does this frame clear 29+ wheel? It seems like the seat tube is bended to allow that. If someone have some experience or exact information, I'd be much appreciated.
> And the second question, does a 120mm bsa bb allow to use a raceface cinch crankset with a 170 rear spacing spindle? As far as I understand, it's possible on a FM-190, so you can have a narrow Q-factor.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It depends on the frame, but the FM190 (190 spaced rear) with 100mm Bottom bracket will fit a 170mm spaced crank (at least the turbine cinch).

Raceface has install instructions for this setup. Its certainly in this thread.


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## ABL guitars (Nov 28, 2013)

Well, all that is quite clear for me. The question is just about the SN-01 frame. Does it fit the same crank config as fm-190, but without any spacers maybe? It would be great, I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## djrez4 (Apr 6, 2012)

Peter from Iplay emailed me this morning to tell me that he and his wife, Bella, have left Iplay and are forming their own company. The new website, up in 20 days, will be http://www.xmcarbonspeed.com/. They will sell the same items and more, apparently.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

ABL guitars said:


> Well, all that is quite clear for me. The question is just about the SN-01 frame. Does it fit the same crank config as fm-190, but without any spacers maybe? It would be great, I think.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I see what you are saying. I believe the SN-01 has the 120mm bottom bracket, which means you use the 190 spaced crank without 10mm spaces on each side.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*Yishunbike wheels, crankset, tires and tubes*

I received the parts I ordered from Yishunbike. It took a week from the time they were shipped. Here are weights and some comments:

*Wheels:* 85mm carbon rims, 150/15 front, 197/12 rear
Front: 1078
Rear:	1208
The wheels were tight, true and they were very easy to set up tubeless. I mounted Snowshoes on them for now but will try the tires below at some point.

*Tires:* Chao Yang 4.9" (same as Panaracer Fat B Nimble)
1304, 1312
I haven't mounted these yet, but will report back when I do.

*Tubes:* Chao Yang 4.0 - 4.6"
466, 470
These are just for emergencies, as I'm running tubeless

*Crankset: *(FIRST Bicycle Components, 1x, 30t wide/narrow chainring) 
Bottom bracket: 498 (cups 182, spindle 274, bolts 42)
Crankarms: 666

There were no instruction with the crankset, so setting up the bottom bracket spacers was trial and error. My first attempt with the thick spacer on the drive side and the two thinner ones on the non-drive side yielded a perfect chainline (lucky me). I needed another very thin spacer to eliminate binding in the BB bearings.

There are two pedal washers in with the crank bolts. These could easily be misconstrued as being for the crank bolts.

The bottom bracket cups were scratched and there was a small amount of thread damage. This is because the cups and spindle were in the same bag and the spindle damaged the cups. They should either be in separate bags or they should be wrapped in foam. I mentioned this to Yishun and they will change their packaging.

The crank arms must be driven on with a rubber mallet or the bolt threads will not engage the spindle. Once they're on, everything works fine.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the merchandise. This is my second order from Yishunbike and I won't hesitate to order from them again.


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

So wait, the Chao yang is a 4.9 version of fat b nimble? I haven't seen a 4.9 fat b nimble yet. Very curious as to how well they roll. I was looking at nimbles but a 4.9 would be awesome.


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

waadate said:


> So wait, the Chao yang is a 4.9 version of fat b nimble? I haven't seen a 4.9 fat b nimble yet. Very curious as to how well they roll. I was looking at nimbles but a 4.9 would be awesome.


Technically the Fat B is just a rebadged Chao Yang. The CY is available in both 4 and 4.9 versions. Panaracer only brought the 4.0 over to the states/EU for release, they just chose not to bring over the 4.9 tire.


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Bnystrom said:


> I received the parts I ordered from Yishunbike. It took a week from the time they were shipped. Here are weights and some comments:


Did you buy from their website Bnystrom, or through Alibaba?

What was the cost of the wheelset, if you don't mind my asking?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

waadate said:


> So wait, the Chao yang is a 4.9 version of fat b nimble? I haven't seen a 4.9 fat b nimble yet. Very curious as to how well they roll. I was looking at nimbles but a 4.9 would be awesome.


This thread may be of interest to you

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=940419
Chaoyang/FatB 4.9 Initial Impressions/Review

I currently have them fitted on my SN01 frame, they are a tall tyre, and very wide in the carcass, as for tread width l would say they are the same as my Ground Controls (4.6)


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Actually, I emailed them and worked directly with Vivian ([email protected]). Ordering from the ACE website is convenient and shipping is included, but you pay more. I ordered all of the above parts together, partially to keep the shipping cost as reasonable as possible. I figure the wheels were ~$600 delivered. The total cost of everything was $860.

In contrast, the rims alone are $600 delivered if ordered off the website.


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## takisawa2 (Sep 21, 2012)

Hi all.
Does anyone know if any of these framesets will run 29+...?

I've run a Niner SIR9 for a few years now, the last year has been 29+ up front. Was set on getting a frame builder to space out the rear for 29+, but after looking at the Beargrease & Pivot Les Fat, (& the idea of a full fat ride), this appeals. Most of the year 29+, but a set of fat wheels going on now & again. We don't get snow of any note here in the UK, lots of mud though.


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

bombermate said:


> .
> 
> Sweet. I was wondering where that fork was from (I recall seeing it in photos in this thread).
> How mauch did you pay for the fork and who did you communicate with? What is its axle width? Any special tips to set it up - in addition to the rebuild that is..


I contacted them about buying this fork, but in the end it made more sense to buy the Bluto from Canada. The Bluto was a little more money ($70) but a much better deal if you take into count the extras you get with it, like shock pump, RockShox threaded through axle, Complete service seals rebuild kit, star nut, cable routing, Owners Manual, brand name parts, service and warranty plus peace of mind. Plus No duties or import charges. Oh ya and it comes with oil.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

What are people doing with the internal routing holes you didnt use? Trying to plug them somehow?


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## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

*Light hollow rear Axle*

I am Trying to replace my heavy 114gram 12 X197mm Qr, with a lighter bolt on.

My frame is a FM-197 / SN01

Paragon and Roberts are heavy 99grams and up.

Does any one know of a hollow shaft 12 X197mm rear axle?


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Just tape over them with whatever you have that looks decent. Nothing special is required.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

msedbaue said:


> What are people doing with the internal routing holes you didnt use? Trying to plug them somehow?


You could try using silicone sealer (bathroom caulk ). 
You can get it in black from most large DIY stores 

Fat Biker


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Fat Biker said:


> You could try using silicone sealer (bathroom caulk ).
> You can get it in black from most large DIY stores Fat Biker


Yeah, I was thinking about this route, just wasn't sure if anyone had found anything better.

thanks


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

msedbaue said:


> Yeah, I was thinking about this route, just wasn't sure if anyone had found anything better.
> 
> thanks


The problem with this approach is if you ever decide to use the holes, you have to get the sealer out. That can be a real pain, depending on the product you use and how much you inject. There is nothing forcing water into these holes other than splashes and bike washings, so an aggressive approach to sealing them is not needed. If the shape of the ports won't let you tape over them, I would lean toward using something like modeling clay to plug them, as it will be easy to remove. I have also made rubber plugs using a hole punch. You may even be able to find small rubber plugs or corks at a hardware store.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Step 1: take a piece of electrical tape or gorilla tape.
Step 2: cut it in a circle and put over hole.
Step 3: ride bike.

I actually used this stuff to protect certain areas like the bottom of the downtube and chainstay. I also used for the holes. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0059XEM9I/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_4TGgvb0TQ2VM9


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

it has been a while since i posted in this thread. looks like its still going strong. i have been riding my fm190 for over 3 months now and it has been awesome. i finally managed to get summer/bikepacking trim for it, replaced bud/lou with snowshoe and jjim. 24.3






lbs as shown, empty frame bag, no pedals.


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

/jealous how are the jumbo jims compared to the bud/Lou combo?
And has anyone found a good front fender yet?


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

Where are you guys getting these JJ?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Qtep said:


> Where are you guys getting these JJ?


i got mine from Evans Cycles, just installed yesterday so cant comment much, weight
wise its on par with snowshoe i have in rear but its noticeable bigger. side knobs are bigger too. this is liteskin version and the sidewalls seem pretty decent.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

chainreaction.co.uk had a few for sale, nothing like the bike24 prices... though we are still waiting on the bike24 orders.


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

brankulo said:


> i got mine from Evans Cycles, just installed yesterday so cant comment much, weight
> wise its on par with snowshoe i have in rear but its noticeable bigger. side knobs are bigger too. this is liteskin version and the sidewalls seem pretty decent.


Thanks.. but they only have the 4.8 version.


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

ozzybmx - Do you know when will bike24 will have your order?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> chainreaction.co.uk had a few for sale, nothing like the bike24 prices... though we are still waiting on the bike24 orders.


mine was around $80, and they only had 1 left after i purchased


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

The local lbs is a Giant, KHS dealer (KHS has them on their fat bike stock). They rec'd some JJs but sold out quickly. Said they got them because they're a Giant dealer (???).


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

How long have people had their items sit in the "Inbound Out of Customs" stage? Mine updated to that last Friday, then no further information.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

msedbaue said:


> How long have people had their items sit in the "Inbound Out of Customs" stage? Mine updated to that last Friday, then no further information.
> 
> View attachment 977650


mine took less than a day for all 3 of my orders from china


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## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

Mine never said anything about customs. It showed up as processed through sort facility, then 2 days later it was delivered.


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## vortrex (Mar 3, 2005)

I've had non-bike related expensive items from Asia get stuck in customs while other similar items passed right through. I had something sitting there for 7 days before with no update. I found the customs phone number, called them, and it was magically released an hour later with no explanation. You might want to try that.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

vortrex said:


> I've had non-bike related expensive items from Asia get stuck in customs while other similar items passed right through. I had something sitting there for 7 days before with no update. I found the customs phone number, called them, and it was magically released an hour later with no explanation. You might want to try that.


I tried to google ISC new York and things like that but cannot seem to come up with a #. I called USPS yesterday and they were less than helpful. They said that they would have expected it to hit a USPS facility that day or the next, then they would be able to track it. She recommended calling the shipper to initiate a case.


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

My Bud and Lou are backordered till April 17th now anyway, at least I get to work on my patience during this build!


----------



## vortrex (Mar 3, 2005)

I think this is the number you want:

(718) 553-7271 ISC

Mine went through Chicago, but hopefully you have luck with NY.


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

vortrex said:


> I think this is the number you want:
> 
> (718) 553-7271 ISC
> 
> Mine went through Chicago, but hopefully you have luck with NY.


Thanks! Voicemail left.


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

waadate said:


> Mine never said anything about customs. It showed up as processed through sort facility, then 2 days later it was delivered.


Same here.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

anyone running a dropper post (stealth) past the BB and up to the cable exit near the steering head bearings?

Im thinking about it, but am not sure..........
20' SN01 Frame

has anyone done it?


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> anyone running a dropper post (stealth) past the BB and up to the cable exit near the steering head bearings?
> 
> Im thinking about it, but am not sure..........
> 20' SN01 Frame
> ...


Well I've got a dropper in the mail along with all the other parts for the build so as soon as I start building it I may be able to figure it out.
May need to drill out a larger hole though at the headtube considering there are 3 cables that will be going to the back: brakes, derailleur & dropper...

P.S. mine is a 16" SN01


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

There are already 3 holes, you shouldn't need to drill.......... 

are you getting a 'stealth' version dropper?


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> There are already 3 holes, you shouldn't need to drill..........
> 
> are you getting a 'stealth' version dropper?


Oh bugger, didnt even look twice!
Yeah I am getting the Thompson Covert dropper. Hopefully arriving sometime next week. I dont see a reason why it wouldnt fit?
I am more worried about getting the hydraulic brakes to fit inside the frame and then having to bleed them if the hose is too long. Now that is gonna be a bastard of a job from what I've read.


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Wheels finally came. Just need the tires now.









Here is the hub soundfor anyone curious.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

bombermate said:


> I am more worried about getting the hydraulic brakes to fit inside the frame and then having to bleed them if the hose is too long. Now that is gonna be a bastard of a job from what I've read.


If they're Shimano, its easy. 
Bleeding must be done because you need to disconnect the hose from master cylinder so the hose can be fed through the frame.
Just make sure the caliper is always 'low' so no air can get to it, keep the open hose end 'high', and its easier to thread the hose through the frame than you think.
Do it before you mount the fork, then you can get your fingers in the frame to help.

EDIT: I found the pull throughs in the frame no help at all, the pull throughs enter and exit the same side of the frame, which imo is incorrect, but Ive been known to be wrong :skep:. My shift cable (rear derailleur) enters the top tube on the left and exits on the right just before seatpost to go down to the derailleur, because I run 1X10, and have no front derailleur, therefore I have a "spare" entry/exit hole in the top tube, which may fit a "stealth/covert" dropper


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

msedbaue said:


> Wheels finally came. Just need the tires now.
> Here is the hub soundfor anyone curious.


The wide, hollow rims do a great job of amplifying hub noise. It's better once the tires are mounted, but they're always going to be noisier than a typical MTB wheel. Carbon frames also tend to amplify noise; the bigger the frame tubes, the more noticeable it is.


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Bnystrom said:


> The wide, hollow rims do a great job of amplifying hub noise. It's better once the tires are mounted, but they're always going to be noisier than a typical MTB wheel. Carbon frames also tend to amplify noise; the bigger the frame tubes, the more noticeable it is.


Yeah, they aren't quite as loud as the hubs on my superfly. They also sound a little more "tinny" if that makes any sense. Just different.


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> If they're Shimano, its easy.
> Bleeding must be done because you need to disconnect the hose from master cylinder so the hose can be fed through the frame.
> Just make sure the caliper is always 'low' so no air can get to it, keep the open hose end 'high', and its easier to thread the hose through the frame than you think.
> Do it before you mount the fork, then you can get your fingers in the frame to help.
> ...


Mine are Magura MT8's unfortunately and the best guide that I've seen on how to bleed them properly requires them to be out of the frame. So I either: 
a) Run them on the outside and have awesome performing brakes or;
b) Run them internally and risk subpar slightly less responsive and tight brake line.



I found one good guide on how to route the covert dropper through the frame:
http://forums.mtbr.com/trek/installing-thomson-covert-dropper-927412.html


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

bombermate said:


> I found one good guide on how to route the covert dropper through the frame:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/trek/installing-thomson-covert-dropper-927412.html


I know nothing about Magura, have fun!! 

I know how to route the dropper cable, that part doesnt worry me. What worries me is the bend in the cable when l come up from the bottom tube and try to use the pictured cable exit


----------



## Wantax (Jan 26, 2010)

Guys just a quick question, i have been reading the full thread, and dont have very clair if a SN01 frame in size small (16) will fit a bluto with clearanceor ill need to install a 5mm crown race for dont have problems hitting the frame in a crash


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Wantax said:


> Guys just a quick question, i have been reading the full thread, and dont have very clair if a SN01 frame in size small (16) will fit a bluto with clearanceor ill need to install a 5mm crown race for dont have problems hitting the frame in a crash


Should fit without a problem. Got a confirmation from one of the guys on here. One of the reasons why I went for the SN01 myself.


----------



## Wantax (Jan 26, 2010)

Ty for your answer bombermate, i know it could be installed the question is if ill need the taller crown race or not and more when we are talking about the smaller size (16), do you know it?


----------



## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Has anyone heard anything else regard the possibility of this?

I emailed Peter no response yet.



PeterXu said:


> Now we have some 010 frame 170 and 190 thru axle type (same as ICAN SN03) and 018 frame (same as ICAN SN01) in UD matt in stock.
> 
> I will make FS carbon fat bike frame this year, you will see.
> 
> ...


----------



## SworksDan (Nov 29, 2011)

WSUPolar said:


> Has anyone heard anything else regard the possibility of this?
> 
> I emailed Peter no response yet.


Peter sent me an email 2 days ago in regards to him starting his new company. He will be offering similar items to his previous company,, but unfortunately he didn't give me a timeline on availability.

He stated that his web site will be active within the next 2-3 weeks.

He also stated that his Engineers are actively working on a Full Suspension Fatty..

Dan


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Wantax said:


> Ty for your answer bombermate, i know it could be installed the question is if ill need the taller crown race or not and more when we are talking about the smaller size (16), do you know it?


"Should fit without a problem" means exactly that - without needing to install any spacers.

You could ask the guy directly if you wish. I sent him a pm about this a while back. Here is the transcript:

Me:
Frame size on your fatty
Hey man I noticed you built up a SN01 with a 100mm bluto - what size is your frame?

Thanks dude

Duci:
Hi
My SN01 frame is size 18" but I also built up a SN01 in 16" with bluto. 
you're welcome

Duci's profile:
http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=564207

You're welcome!


----------



## Wantax (Jan 26, 2010)

Many thanks bombermate


----------



## Rango (Nov 10, 2014)

So after more than a year of thinking about it, reading and lurking in the forums, pricing components I'm building a new Fatty (and I've already sold my Pugsley). If anyone has input I'd really appreciate it, this is what I've come up with:

XMIPLAY IP-N019
Nextie 65mm Rims (running 4.0 to 4.25 inches and planning on going tubeless)
DT Swiss 350 hubs
Chris King headset
XX1 Drivetrain
Uncertain about bottom bracket
Avid Juicy Brakes

Stem, handle bars, saddle and seat post will be coming from what I have sitting around.
I live and ride between Morgantown WV, Durango CO, and Willits CA, so my tires vary wildly between the roots, rocks and muck of WV and the amazing hardpack of the west (and something in between in Cali... if you're reading this and you're near Mendo CA, ride Lake Mendocino loop... it's one of my favorite non-alpine rides anywhere).

EDIT: this is my first time building a Fatty. Also, first time running 1x11, tubeless fat tires, so I'm posting here in part to see if anyone notices compatibility issues


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Are there any tricks to navigating the internal cable routing? I have an SN01 and it did not have anything pre-routed through the frame, like I've seen in some pictures.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

gi02sl said:


> Are there any tricks to navigating the internal cable routing? I have an SN01 and it did not have anything pre-routed through the frame, like I've seen in some pictures.


There should have been... but I screwed mine up too and did it wrong. Here's what I did from reading online, and worked great: put your frame vertical in a stand. Get some sewing string and put some tape on one end narrow enough to get through the holes. Put a shop vac hose on the bottom hole and feed the string through. The vacuum will suck the string right out. Tie the string well to your cable at the top and carefully pull through.


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Does anyone know what is the lightest headset (without breaking the bank) that will fit ICAN SN01 frame?
I know that this one will fit:
Headset Cane Creek TAPERED IS41|IS52/40



But are there others? What specs should I look out for besides these two numbers when looking for a headset that will fit (IS41 IS52)?


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

gi02sl said:


> Are there any tricks to navigating the internal cable routing? I have an SN01 and it did not have anything pre-routed through the frame, like I've seen in some pictures.





duggus said:


> There should have been... but I screwed mine up too and did it wrong. Here's what I did from reading online, and worked great: put your frame vertical in a stand. Get some sewing string and put some tape on one end narrow enough to get through the holes. Put a shop vac hose on the bottom hole and feed the string through. The vacuum will suck the string right out. Tie the string well to your cable at the top and carefully pull through.


This is one way....
I didnt do this though.

Without the fork & headset mounted you can get your fingers inside the frame, so with the rear brakes you need to thread them from rear of bike toward headtube, use fingers to guide tube out of frame. We RD cable, thread the cable outer through from rear toward headtube, once its out then the shift cable can be sent through.

The pull through guides were there in my frame, but threaded through incorrectly imo.


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

I got the shift cable (vacuum). I'll re-attempt brake line tonight, should be able to get it eventually.


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

21" FM190, Carbon wheels, 170mm spaced cranks. Just under 26lbs with Hudus! Awesome bike!


----------



## Rango (Nov 10, 2014)

That is a sweet bike.

Did you buy directly from them or go through eBay? Why did you go with iCanBikes over XmiPlay or DengFu? What rims and hubs do you have? Are you running tubeless? I just bought my frame, wheelset and drivetrain... so I'm curious about other people's reasons for selecting their frames/components. Is there something you'd have done differently knowing what you know now, or if you'd have had a bit bigger budget?


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Rango said:


> That is a sweet bike.
> 
> Did you buy directly from them or go through eBay? Why did you go with iCanBikes over XmiPlay or DengFu? What rims and hubs do you have? Are you running tubeless? I just bought my frame, wheelset and drivetrain... so I'm curious about other people's reasons for selecting their frames/components. Is there something you'd have done differently knowing what you know now, or if you'd have had a bit bigger budget?


Thanks! I went through Melody at Shenzhen Baolijia Sports Equipment Co., Ltd. - carbon bicycle frame,bicycle frame

I didnt have any issues at all! I am running tubeless. The Hudos were VERY tight on the wheels, but they went. I have all XT stuff on my superfly, so I went all XT because I like it. I have always been a fan of raceface stuff, so everything else is pretty much raceface. I have attached my BOM below. The tires represent Bud and Lou, which are not on the bike right now, but probably will be in the winter.


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

msedbaue said:


> Thanks! I went through Melody at Shenzhen Baolijia Sports Equipment Co., Ltd. - carbon bicycle frame,bicycle frame
> 
> I didnt have any issues at all! I am running tubeless. The Hudos were VERY tight on the wheels, but they went. I have all XT stuff on my superfly, so I went all XT because I like it. I have always been a fan of raceface stuff, so everything else is pretty much raceface. I have attached my BOM below. The tires represent Bud and Lou, which are not on the bike right now, but probably will be in the winter.
> 
> View attachment 980575


Just wondering how you find the gearing of the 28t cog. I am actually about to order one now and I was going for a 30t cog.

Cheers


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

bombermate said:


> Just wondering how you find the gearing of the 28t cog. I am actually about to order one now and I was going for a 30t cog.
> 
> Cheers


I went with the 28t based upon the fact that I had a motobecane lurch that had a 22 ring in the front (2 x 10) and I occasionally used it on some really soft snowy days. I ran a 32T 1 x10 on the lurch for a while and went back to the 2x10 so I didnt have to worry about the nasty stuff.

28T may get spun out on some hardpack snow or singletrack in the summer... but then again its still over 20mph... Not going to break the bank. I certainly dont average 20mph on my fatbike.


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Also, if you were going with a 40T or 42T rear, 30T in the front is probably better anyway.


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Sweet,

I just ordered a 32T from Jenson. They didnt have 30t in stock so they swayed me there lol!


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Honestly if you ride in deep snow a 28 is as big as you are going to want to go. And if 28 x 11t in back isn't fast enough take out the road bike! That's pretty fast gearing. Low is always more important on a fat bike and I wouldn't want to try climbing in snow with a 32 front.


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

duggus said:


> Honestly if you ride in deep snow a 28 is as big as you are going to want to go. And if 28 x 11t in back isn't fast enough take out the road bike! That's pretty fast gearing. Low is always more important on a fat bike and I wouldn't want to try climbing in snow with a 32 front.


Agreed!


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

duggus said:


> Honestly if you ride in deep snow a 28 is as big as you are going to want to go. And if 28 x 11t in back isn't fast enough take out the road bike! That's pretty fast gearing. Low is always more important on a fat bike and I wouldn't want to try climbing in snow with a 32 front.


I am in Australia so no snow around here 
Plenty of sand however!

I'll order in another chainring if the 32t turns out to be too high.


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

bombermate said:


> I am in Australia so no snow around here
> Plenty of sand however!
> 
> I'll order in another chainring if the 32t turns out to be too high.


I don't have too much experience riding in just sand. What I do know is that if it is snowy and you cannot make it up a hill in the seated position, you will be walking up it. Even with the wide tires if you try to stand and power up the hill you will just slip your rear end and come to a stop, so instead of grinding a 32T you can spin a 28T!


----------



## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

msedbaue said:


> I don't have too much experience riding in just sand. What I do know is that if it is snowy and you cannot make it up a hill in the seated position, you will be walking up it. Even with the wide tires if you try to stand and power up the hill you will just slip your rear end and come to a stop, so instead of grinding a 32T you can spin a 28T!


I see the same thing in loose dirt here. I have found the steepest climbs require being seated, keeping low,and leaning forward as far as possible.

Keeping seated prevents spin-out, leaning forward keeps the front wheel from lifting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

on the FM190 frame, what set screw should I get for the rear thru axle cap? Mine did not come with one.

thanks!


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bombermate said:


> I am in Australia so no snow around here
> Plenty of sand however!
> 
> I'll order in another chainring if the 32t turns out to be too high.


That sounds like a good plan. That's the nice thing about them is they are relatively easy and quick to swap. You might be fine then with your location. I'm in Minnesota USA so always thinking fat bike = snow


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

duggus said:


> That sounds like a good plan. That's the nice thing about them is they are relatively easy and quick to swap. You might be fine then with your location. I'm in Minnesota USA so always thinking fat bike = snow


WI for me! Go Packers.


----------



## Wintersux (Mar 22, 2015)

Hi....Just wondering if anyone's done a build with a CFM 119 frame before?
How the build went, and the Pros-cons?

CFM119 26er Full Carbon Fat Bike Frame-Carbon Rims,Carbon Wheels,Carbon Frames,Carbon Wheelset-CarbonBikeKits


----------



## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

Wintersux said:


> Hi....Just wondering if anyone's done a build with a CFM 119 frame before?
> How the build went, and the Pros-cons?
> 
> CFM119 26er Full Carbon Fat Bike Frame-Carbon Rims,Carbon Wheels,Carbon Frames,Carbon Wheelset-CarbonBikeKits


I think that's the same frameset as the DengFu FM190.


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Qtep said:


> I think that's the same frameset as the DengFu FM190.


Agreed


----------



## J-whiskey (Oct 16, 2014)

here is my build... decided on spending some extra cash on the wheels, tune hubs and kuroshiro enso 685 rims. so my brand new never used nextie with hope hubs are up for sale.


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

What width are the rims you are selling?


----------



## Rango (Nov 10, 2014)

Ordered my SN03 last week and it is here already. I bought it from their eBay page, and asked for the 150mm fork instead of the 135mm. It looks great, just a single shallow 1.5" scratch below the steerer where there wasn't any foam wrapped around the bike.

now to start assembling... I need to get it to the bike shop to get them to do the hydraulic breaks...


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Can anyone give me a quick rundown of my Chinese carbon frame options for the following requirements:

-Size medium that has clearance for bluto

-197x12 rear thru axle

-69 degree or less head angle


----------



## Rango (Nov 10, 2014)

um, I forgot to get a headset from iCan. Can someone recommend a headset for the SN03 that is very straight forward and doesn't have compatibility issues? The less tweaking, the better.


----------



## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Got a question. By the looks of it ICAN SN01, Speeder Cycle F-FB01, Carbon Speed CS-18 and a few others are the same frame. They all list the same geometry specs. If this is the case, why are there conflicting reports of RS Bluto fitting some but not others? For instance, in this thread the SN01 has been successfully paired up with a Bluto but the FB01 had issues. What am I missing?


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Size of the frame, Bluto has issues fitting the smaller frames, which ones exactly can be found in this thread (ie l dont know off hand)


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Rango said:


> um, I forgot to get a headset from iCan. Can someone recommend a headset for the SN03 that is very straight forward and doesn't have compatibility issues? The less tweaking, the better.


It shouldve come with the frame, contact ICAN and tell them they forgot it


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

compengr said:


> Got a question. By the looks of it ICAN SN01, Speeder Cycle F-FB01, Carbon Speed CS-18 and a few others are the same frame. They all list the same geometry specs. If this is the case, why are there conflicting reports of RS Bluto fitting some but not others? For instance, in this thread the SN01 has been successfully paired up with a Bluto but the FB01 had issues. What am I missing?


I have doubts that they are the same frame simply because I have been told that the bluto fits an all sizes of SN01 from 16 " and up.
This was, of course, according to one of the forum posters who claimed he had built a small frame with a bluto and had no issues, so take that with a grain of salt.



Negotiator50 said:


> Can anyone give me a quick rundown of my Chinese carbon frame options for the following requirements:
> 
> -Size medium that has clearance for bluto
> 
> ...


SN01 fits the bill. 
FM190 also but at size medium and up AFAIK.

From reading pretty much every post in this thread my conclusion about these two frames were that the SN01 fits bluto in all sizes and has better singletrack geometry while the FM190 has slightly wider room for bigger tires (even though the SN01 still fits 4.8s according to a bunch of people).


----------



## Wantax (Jan 26, 2010)

Sn01 + 16 size + Bluto i can confirm that you need to add a taller crown race (about 3mm) or protect the frame with some rubber sticker, if you dont do it the dials of the fork touch in the frame.

I sent a pm to the user who built other sn01 in size16 and he also confirmed me that you can install it, are compatible, but has the small issue of the fork touching the frame in size 16.


----------



## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Wantax said:


> Sn01 + 16 size + Bluto i can confirm that you need to add a taller crown race (about 3mm) or protect the frame with some rubber sticker, if you dont do it the dials of the fork touch in the frame.
> 
> I sent a pm to the user who built other sn01 in size16 and he also confirmed me that you can install it, are compatible, but has the small issue of the fork touching the frame in size 16.


Hmm... I contacted all three companies and all but ICAN said I will need a 3mm or 5mm spacer. I wonder is there is enough variation frame-to-frame where one works and another doesn't. That would explain the inconsistent information I've seen in this thread.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

bombermate said:


> while the FM190 has slightly wider room for bigger tires (even though the SN01 still fits 4.8s according to a bunch of people).


I just swapped out 4.9 ChaoYangs for 4.6 Ground Controls (lot less self steer) on my SN01, there's not a lot of space when the 4.9s are fitted, but they do fit


----------



## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Finally our website is running online: Xiamen Carbon Speed Co.,Ltd

More products will be populated there. And my own FS fat bike frame mold design in 17'' is finally confirmed, but I am not able to upload the PDF file.

And we have some CS-010 and CS-018 frames available in stcok.


----------



## abikepeddler (Mar 12, 2007)

I have read through much of this tread and I am hoping someone can give me their $.02...

Interested in building a fat bike to ride ON the beach. Salt air/sand corrosion is a real concern with my build and thus I want to build a LOW MAINTENANCE (geared) fat tire bike that won't require endless cleaning/maintenance after every ride. Besides using a carbon frame and rims I am interested in using a Rohloff XL Speedhub which requires 170mm rear spacing and I believe quick release mounting. My concern is a 170mm style frame will not carry a 4.8" tire or allow me the option to use a Bluto fork should I ever want to convert this bike for more dedicated off-road use. Can anyone point me towards a carbon frame that meets my criteria?

Here is the hub:

SPEEDHUB 500/14 XL: www.rohloff.de

Going to likely convert it to use the Gates Carbon Drive belt in place of a chain as seen here: GATES CARBON DRIVE: www.rohloff.de


----------



## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

none of these bikes are belt drive compatible


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

i would like to see a home brew belt conversion


----------



## abikepeddler (Mar 12, 2007)

WSUPolar said:


> none of these bikes are belt drive compatible


Thanks for response...

I am guessing this is due to chainline (belt line?) issues with the frames geometry? So anyone have any advice on a salt air resistant build? Obviously start with carbon frame and carbon hoops (and ti hardware as much as possible) but in terms of drivetrains.. any advice?

Eric - San Diego, CA


----------



## waadate (Feb 18, 2015)

It's been about a month now, I feel I can finally weigh in on some experience with the xmiplay IP-010. First and foremost I love carbon to death. I went from a pugsley to this and I never looked back. I've owned carbon stem spacers prior to this, and that was the extent of my experience. I made the jump to a carbon frame and tubeless and it was life changing. The last 2 Saturdays I have done 107, and 110 miles respectively. My commute to work is 22 miles each way. I've put some miles on, and I can't say enough about how much better this build is. 

Some things to know about this particular model IP-010 17" w/190 rear-

Not compatible with 170 turbine cranks, drive side rubs.
Not compatible with chaoyang 4.9 tubeless on mulefuts, rubs the chainstays. I trimmed down the outside lugs and made it work because I really like the way they roll. A larger frame with longer chainstays may be ok, these tires are TALL.
The rear brake mount issue isn't 100% fixed. This problem was stated probably dozens of pages ago now, and said to be fixed. The caliper on mine mounts just slightly crooked. Pedaling out of the saddle, aka heavy load, the disc rubs the caliper. I can live with it for the price of the frame, but an fyi.

All in all, I'm very happy. I have some slight second guessing if I should have opted for the FM190 instead but I don't lose sleep over it. If I do make a decision to pursue something else I'll see what Peter has in store, he seems to take feedback into consideration. Any questions, feel free to ask. I'm usually lurking.


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

abikepeddler said:


> I am guessing this is due to chainline (belt line?) issues with the frames geometry?


No, the problem is that there is no way to install a belt on a frame that doesn't have a removable rear dropout or the ability to unscrew the seat stay from the dropout.


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Finally completed my fatty build (first build







for me, mostly with info from this thread). 23.6 lbs ready to rock. Used VeloBuild, very happy with the whole process. Bike handles great.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Looks good, well done


----------



## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Now we have CS-N019 in all sizes 15''/17''/19'' in UD matt in stock

26er full carbon fat bike frame frame 150*15mm/190*10mm QR/197*12mm axle

5.0'' max tire clearance


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

gi02sl said:


> Finally completed my fatty build (first build
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that looks great.

Build specs?


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Used VeloBuild (same geo/frame as SN01) for frame, fork, stem, seat post, collar and headset. Built Nextie Black Eagles on Hope hubs (190/135). Next cinch, XX1 11-speed, guide brakes. That's all the major stuff. It exceeded my expectations, snappy out of corners, light and lively front end, changes direction well, really happy with it.


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

PeterXu said:


> Now we have CS-N019 in all sizes 15''/17''/19'' in UD matt in stock
> 
> 26er full carbon fat bike frame frame 150*15mm/190*10mm QR/197*12mm axle
> 
> 5.0'' max tire clearance


Peter,

Will a bluto fit on the 17 size without the crown hitting the downtube for this frame?


----------



## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Negotiator50 said:


> Peter,
> 
> Will a bluto fit on the 17 size without the crown hitting the downtube for this frame?


I would also like to know this question


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

If anyone is interested I have an extra 80mm Carbon rim I would sell. Thanks!


----------



## jnicosia (Aug 2, 2013)

msedbaue said:


> If anyone is interested I have an extra 80mm Carbon rim I would sell. Thanks!


PM me with details , I am very interested


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> Peter,
> 
> Will a bluto fit on the 17 size without the crown hitting the downtube for this frame?


There were many guys talking about this before, you can check previous 10-15 pages, I think you need spacers to prevent Bluto fork hitting the downtube.


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

We revised the CS-N019 frame rear derailleur cable routing hole. Previous design is better for Shimano RD, now it could be for both SRAM and Shimano.

You can tell the difference via these pictures

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterxu1206


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

I have read this thread 3 times over and i'm no closer to knowing which carbon frame i can get that will fit a set of Bluto.

I'm 5"11 so i'm after a large frame but i can't find confirmed frames that will take a Bluto.

Does anyone know and can list what frames and sizes work?

Thanks.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

devans said:


> I have read this thread 3 times over and i'm no closer to knowing which carbon frame i can get that will fit a set of Bluto.
> 
> I'm 5"11 so i'm after a large frame but i can't find confirmed frames that will take a Bluto.
> 
> ...


I believe a bunch of pages back, someone has a FM190 in Large with a Bluto.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

msedbaue said:


> I believe a bunch of pages back, someone has a FM190 in Large with a Bluto.


SN01 also fits the bill for you.


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## ciscolangot (Nov 24, 2009)

anybody tried 29+ wheels with these carbon fatty frames? Just curious..love my sn01 with bluto but summer is almost here and I am contemplating on trying it out...cheaper than buying a whole new 29+ bike. my concern is higher BB height but by how much.

thanks.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

ciscolangot said:


> anybody tried 29+ wheels with these carbon fatty frames? Just curious..love my sn01 with bluto but summer is almost here and I am contemplating on trying it out...cheaper than buying a whole new 29+ bike. my concern is higher BB height but by how much.
> 
> thanks.


Out of curiosity, what size SN01 and did you have to do anything to get bluto to fit?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


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## ciscolangot (Nov 24, 2009)

*sn01*



compengr said:


> Out of curiosity, what size SN01 and did you have to do anything to get bluto to fit?
> 
> Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


I have a small SN01. The bluto that I got has the remote pushloc which does not clear the down tube. So I am using the Salsa Cane Creek +3 40mm Crown Race.








without pushloc, I think it would clear the downtube.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Thanks for the info! Did you use that with the provided headset or did you go with a different one?

Any chance of getting a closeup of the bluto fit?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


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## Wantax (Jan 26, 2010)

ciscolangot said:


> I have a small SN01. The bluto that I got has the remote pushloc which does not clear the down tube. So I am using the Salsa Cane Creek +3 40mm Crown Race.
> View attachment 984450
> 
> 
> without pushloc, I think it would clear the downtube.


I saw that you have the raceface turbine cinch installed in your sn01, could you pls tell us the exactly spacers setup? I have at he moment the 190mm axle version in a 100mm bb frame running a 10-11mm spacer in each side and already ordered a sn01, since it has a 120mm bb i guess o hve to remove both sides spacers, anything else extra?

Thank you in advance


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## IwantCake (Sep 25, 2004)

I sure hope I didn't miss it somewhere, but has anyone set one of these up as a SS? I have a real bad itch for a fatty SS for some reason and the lighter the better. 

thanks...


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

There is no reason you couldn't use a singlenator or an eccentric BB (not that i've looked into a 100 or 120 eccentric) IwantCake.

Go for it i say!


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Wantax said:


> I saw that you have the raceface turbine cinch installed in your sn01, could you pls tell us the exactly spacers setup? I have at he moment the 190mm axle version in a 100mm bb frame running a 10-11mm spacer in each side and already ordered a sn01, since it has a 120mm bb i guess o hve to remove both sides spacers, anything else extra?
> 
> Thank you in advance


I have the same frame with the Cinch BSA30 bb and Next cranks (photo a few posts above). Per the instructions, two bb spacers drive side, one on the other side between the cups and frame. Then between the cups and cranks you should only need one 2.5 mm spacer per side (those spacers are not in the bb kit). Race Face mailed them to me, they were very responsive via email. The spacer kit # is F10011. Also, the sleeve included is only 100mm, so it won't fit and they don't make one that will. They told me to just leave it out on the 120mm bb.


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## Wantax (Jan 26, 2010)

Thank you very much for your great answer im sure will be very usefull for the rest since this setup is a very common one

+rep for you


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## Gr36 (Feb 22, 2012)

I think the answer is no, but is there an option for a frame currently other than the FM190 that can handle a Surly Lou, and run a 170mm crank spindle with a 1x setup?

I like the N019 frame, but I am concerned about not being able to get an "XL" size, and needing to go 190 due to Q-factor knee issues.

Thanks in advance.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Gr36 said:


> I think the answer is no, but is there an option for a frame currently other than the FM190 that can handle a Surly Lou, and run a 170mm crank spindle with a 1x setup?
> 
> I like the N019 frame, but I am concerned about not being able to get an "XL" size, and needing to go 190 due to Q-factor knee issues.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Check out the SN01 it's available in a 20inch and has shorter 445mm chain stays than the fm190 that are 465mm.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

May day holiday now for 3 days in China, don't expect fast responses.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Hi Chiner Builders,

I've read the entire thread. I'm 6'7" and about 255lbs, 2m and 115Kg.
A couple questions...
I was all set to go with XMiPlay IP-N019 in 21", 150x15 197x12 with 80mm carbon wheels. Peter, nor Bert, have a 21" frame available.

That leaves Dengfu. FM190. 

Question relates to 197x12 VS 190x12 rear spacing. 
Why does that matter for anything other than squeezing a 4.8-5.0" tire back there?

BB sizing 120mm VS 100mm is the width of the bottom bracket. What are the things I need to consider in this choice? I'm tall. 36 inseam, 14-15 size shoe, rarely is anything too big for me in this world.

The other Choice is the SN01 20" with 120bb and 197mm. Can this bike be made to fit a 6'7" guy with seat posts and stems etc or am I wasting my time?
I don't want to look like a monkey doing you know what to a football
Thanks,
Harold


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

As a sort of guide, l have the 20' SN01, 90mm Stem, and you can see how far my seat post is extended.
Im 6"3' (33' inseam) and 95kgs


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

RE rear spacing, 197 is thru axle, 190 is usu QR, same width. I personally would only build a thru axle for stiffness. But that width is only needed for the wider rear tires you mentioned, I went with it so I wouldn't be restricted to narrower tires.

Q-factor is 202 vs 222 mm for the different rear spacing. Some say wider is an issue (to the point that I was having buyer's remorse prior to finishing my build), but it ended up not being an issue for me at all. I'm 5'11" and between my hips, knees, and ankles everything seems to line up pretty well. 

I built on a different frame so I don't have specifics about that.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

CMG71 and gi02sl, thanks for your feedback. 
the SN01 20" will definitely be too small. Even with 120mm stem and an offset seat post. 
That leaves the Dengfu FM190. Hopefully the 21" is available. I think I can handle a wide BB but the FM190 has a 100mm BB. 

Anyone bought a 21'er from Dengfu?

With a CF frame, does the Thru axel make such a difference? I don't plan to attack much of anything as I'm riding with my 6 & 8 yr olds. We just want to tool around in the neighborhood, single track the woods and I'd ride the beach with my dog Spock.

I build RC planes and Multirotors and feel this is an achievable goal to build a bike. I have most tools already except some specialty items that are part specific. 

Dengfu FM190 21" anyone?
H


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Shelterock said:


> CMG71 and gi02sl, thanks for your feedback.
> the SN01 20" will definitely be too small. Even with 120mm stem and an offset seat post.
> That leaves the Dengfu FM190. Hopefully the 21" is available. I think I can handle a wide BB but the FM190 has a 100mm BB.
> 
> ...


I built a 21" FM190. I had a QR fatbike from and rear and never really liked it. The rear did have horizontal dropouts so under really heavy braking the QR would slide. My FM190 has the thru axles and its better. Your disc brakes line up every time as well. I put together a thread of the build of this bike "FM190 Build Thread" on this forum or feel free to PM me with questions. For reference im 6"4, 180lbs. Bike fits great. A lot of the measurements are similar to my superfly, that's how I ended up with the FM190. I knew I wanted a more relaxed stance on the bike so I went with wider bars and a shorter stem. It feels perfect.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

msedbaue,
Thank you for the insight and the reminder that I read your thread early on in my research. Forgot you had an XL. 
So FM190 21" with 197 thru axel set up in the rear. 

With regards to forks; I've read the 5" tire will fit a 135x15mm so why are people so keen on the 150x15mm forks? I think I read the Bluto fork is a 150x15 spacing so you can switch later on?

I'm curious what people have spent on the drive trains, brakes etc and accessories. 
I knew all this stuff 20+ years ago in my BMX days. 
I figure the frame, fork, wheels, stem, post and bars are ~$1400 and I could easily spend another ~$1000 on the running gear.

Bizarrely to some maybe, I'm doing this because I like to build things but likely I'm not going to push the envelope on this thing even remotely.

A specialized Fat Boy SE is $1500. Motobecane Night train Bullet or Boris is $1600. It has all the right gear on it. Anyone worked the math on buying and cannibalizing such a rig?

H


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Yes, people run 150 x 15 spacing on rigid front forks so they can also run a Bluto. 135 x 15 works fine for rigid forks and 5" tires, but suspension forks have wider legs so they went to 150mm for the Bluto so it could handle a 5" tire.

On a full suspension frame a thru-axle helps stiffen up the rear triangle. If it is a hardtail then the thru-axle doesn't really help, but when the hub is 190mm wide then it makes a difference to the hub. With your size you definitely want thru-axles front and rear. The 190 x 12 rear spacing is basically a mistake by the frame builder. I would make sure to get 197 x 12 so that you don't have to find a special hub for your frame.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Shelterock said:


> msedbaue,
> Thank you for the insight and the reminder that I read your thread early on in my research. Forgot you had an XL.
> So FM190 21" with 197 thru axel set up in the rear.
> 
> ...


Attached is my parts list and costs. I personally wouldnt want to buy a different back and take parts off because you may make compromises somewhere. If you are comfortable with those parts, maybe, by why not build exactly what you want?


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

So your saying if for similar money, you can go 150mm on front, it gives you options.
Thanks for your explanation and suggestions.
H


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Interesting, so I just rode a specialized sl and an expert. Unfortunately large frames only not XL. I had little room in the frame. 
I rode only pavement. Definitely more rolling resistance and a lot of flex. Both bikes are in the 28-30lbs if not 30-32lbs. The SL had the SRAM xx1 1x11 and that shifted nice and crisp. Is it worth the money for the weight savings and speed. Not for me. I'm no pro. SL is a ton of cash. Your bike is better and half the price.. It's nuts. The ground control tires were at 9-10psi. Not soft but very grippy and flexible. Eah peddle thrust pushed the bike sideways. Reminds me what it feels like to go from my Audi S4 to my wrangler.
I'm conflicted as to whether I want this. I don't need it but I like it. Comfort is becoming important. The large frame was way too small.
Just some thoughts. Thanks for your build sheet. Do you have 2 cranks on there? Next SL and turbine cinch?
H


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Sorry, the Next SL is the handlebar!


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

and the items that show no cost and others that seem expensive, were combined items from Jensen.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

I guess it's spreadsheet time and dig into components and tools. 
I think a 1x10/11 is a lot of money for the benefits. The Fat Boy SE at $1500 had SRAM x5 drive train with mech discs from Tektro. If I went with similar gear that would save big bucks. I don't know. Need to sleep on it and think some as to whether this is what I want. 
H


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Where live there is no 'need' for Fatty, and from the sounds of your riding there is no need for one either. My Fatty build was 2 years of thinking about it, losing the 'want', then getting it back. I even quit out of my first order (aliexpress) because l second guessed myself. In the end my missus (and Duci from the forum) convinced me, and l did it. So now my 'want' for a Fatty has turned into a 'want' to do more riding .

Having said that, my Trek Rumblefish (29er fully) hasnt been used since l finished my Fatty, its just a whole new style & technique, l even commute to work with it 

You mentioned a monkey and a football, l think at your size this is the norm........


this post was edited, which is why it doesnt really flow anymore


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Just ordered a CS-018 In 18inch and a set of Carbon 80mm rims on Novatec hubs from Peter.

So far so good!!


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> Where live there is no 'need' for Fatty, and from the sounds of your riding there is no need for one either. My Fatty build was 2 years of thinking about it, losing the 'want', then getting it back. I even quit out of my first order (aliexpress) because l second guessed myself. In the end my missus (and Duci from the forum) convinced me, and l did it. So now my 'want' for a Fatty has turned into a 'want' to do more riding .
> 
> Having said that, my Trek Rumblefish (29er fully) hasnt been used since l finished my Fatty, its just a whole new style & technique, l even commute to work with it
> 
> ...


I feel like I need a entire new set of friends to own this bike. Seinfeld reference. I woke up and I am still considering it. Riding the Large Frame hurt my back and ankle. Need to find an XL to see how I fit.
H


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Shelterock said:


> I feel like I need a entire new set of friends to own this bike. Seinfeld reference. I woke up and I am still considering it. Riding the Large Frame hurt my back and ankle. Need to find an XL to see how I fit.
> H


If youre in Green Bay WI you can borrow mine for a spin.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

I've got some Carbon 80mm rims coming to fit my new CS-18/SN01

What's the best tyre for UK summer riding?
I need an all-round tyre really, sometimes it'll be bone dry other times it'll be boggy mud.

Not fussed about how fast they are on Tarmac though!


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Sag Harbor NY, 1500 miles unfortunately...
No luck finding a 21" Dengfu FM190 so far.
H


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

*Top fire FM157*








Scouting for a 21" frame, I came across a new fat bike frame from top-fire. It's on alibaba. 














For you Bluto lovers, this neck may be your answer.



































I'm making inquiries.
H


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Still got 468mm chain stays, not the end of the world, but not great for a trail bike.

Looks really nice though!


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Considering your size, and how far back your weight will be (long seat post, possibly set back) l think 25mm longer chainstays wont be an issue, 
you can still wheelie it till the cows come home


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> Considering your size, and how far back your weight will be (long seat post, possibly set back) l think 25mm longer chainstays wont be an issue,
> you can still wheelie it till the cows come home


This is true!


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> Considering your size, and how far back your weight will be (long seat post, possibly set back) l think 25mm longer chainstays wont be an issue,
> you can still wheelie it till the cows come home


I'm just hoping the 21" frame exists!
H


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Expect slow replies till Monday/Tuesday China are currently on public holiday.

Sadly this means my CS-18 and wheels haven't moved yet


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Top fire FM157 looks good.


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

Shelterock said:


> View attachment 985561
> 
> Scouting for a 21" frame, I came across a new fat bike frame from top-fire. It's on alibaba.
> View attachment 985562
> ...


Nice looking frame. It appears to be exact specs as the Alaskan and the KHS.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

mortelec said:


> Nice looking frame. It appears to be exact specs as the Alaskan and the KHS.


What's the rear spacing on this model, 197 or 190?


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> What's the rear spacing on this model, 197 or 190?


Site says 190. I may change plans and order one. I have a FM190 but like the styling of the Alaskan and KHS bike better.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

sadly, neither the Alaskan or KHS are available in 21" frame sizes. I got word I can get and FM190 in 21". Using Bike Comparator spreadsheet, I think it is very close to the Specialized Fat Boy in Geometry for their XL frame.
The Biggest Frame I've found without Custom work is the Ventana El Gordo 23" XXL frame. Big price and weight difference but excellent reputation and support. 

What to do... what to do?
H


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

If that's the same as the KHS/Alaskan frame then I doubt you can get one in the US as those two have exclusive rights to that frame.


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

Jisch said:


> If that's the same as the KHS/Alaskan frame then I doubt you can get one in the US as those two have exclusive rights to that frame.


Maybe it's a copy. Specs seem the same, they look the same and alibaba has them available for shipment.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

mortelec said:


> Maybe it's a copy. Specs seem the same, they look the same and alibaba has them available for shipment.


It may be similar but the Alaskan carbon is a 197 rear while the top fire one is a 190 rear. That makes a difference if you are moving a wheelset over from another bike that has a 197 hub. This is what is preventing me from ordering this frame.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

It does look like the same frame - I think I remember people thinking they could order them into the US until they put them in a shopping cart.


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

I think I remember many pages back in this thread that the 197 and 190 was accomplished on certain frames by the thickness of the removable dropout. If its not available in the US I might as well scratch this pipe dream frame.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

don't trust me on that. try to order it.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

190 or 197 is all the same but relates to a choice of Quick Release QR axles or a Thru Axle. the Spacing is 190 or 170mm in rear spacing choice, then you need an axle at 197mm to make it through the frame. These builders seem to offer a choice on some of these frames with interchangeable mounts. The Top-fire FM157 seems to have the rear mounts integrated into the frame.

Either way, No response from them as yet. the FM190 in 21 is available. Alaskan Framed Carbon is not available in a 21" at this time, so as I've seen before, even if they say the have it, it simply may not have been molded and made yet. There may also be contractual relationships in place preventing US availability. I got word through another contact that I might not be able to get this frame in the US.
H
H


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Just a bit of info for you's without running down anyone's frames. I have a Dengfu FM190, I have just bought a set of 4.8" Jumbo Jims off a mate who has another Chi frame. His frame has a 120mm BB versus my 100mm, both frames are 197mm rear hub and the apparent spacing of the chainstays is 140mm... same as mine. But they are a different shape, mine have a deeper arch, which brings my 140mm spacing closer to the BB, therefore allowing the bigger tyre.

So read the thread before buying.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I've probably said this before Ozzy, but that's a nice looking bike. I usually don't worry about matching colors at all, but it really paid off there!


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Thanks Jisch, its wasn't on purpose really, I ordered white as I liked the new white greasedbear... but useless if you cant run the max width for sand. Then Nextie worked around the frame and sent me some Black and White 90mm's.

Turned out sweet... can go wrong with black and white. Most things come in black and white


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

ozzybmx - how much does it weigh?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Qtep said:


> ozzybmx - how much does it weigh?


I thought it would be lighter than what it is, my reckoning was near the 10kg mark... I put 5 scoops of stans in those tyres, its still 10.6kg. Feels good though


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Still down from the 10.95kg with Buds front and rear.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

ozzybmx said:


> Just a bit of info for you's without running down anyone's frames. I have a Dengfu FM190, I have just bought a set of 4.8" Jumbo Jims off a mate who has another Chi frame. His frame has a 120mm BB versus my 100mm, both frames are 197mm rear hub and the apparent spacing of the chainstays is 140mm... same as mine. But they are a different shape, mine have a deeper arch, which brings my 140mm spacing closer to the BB, therefore allowing the bigger tyre.
> 
> So read the thread before buying.
> 
> ...


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Pretty rude Sherlock, not even a thanks.

You seem to know better than what I have already built, have a red square for you trollness.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Wow, How was any of what I wrote rude? If anything it's a compliment on the high level to which you built your bike. The question was legitimate on the 140mm which wasn't clear as to what that measured. Chainstays are 468mm or there abouts on the FM, and 140mm was a measurement I couldn't placed. 
Frame Size, paint work and technical questions aside, perhaps It was the money question that you perceive as rude. I didn't mean to offend. Clearly some nice componentry went into your bike. Great looking finish too.
I'm a 45 yr old man, father of 2, and considerate Husband. By no means a troll. So red square away...
I'm learning about what my options are to build a Fat Bike. Was my comment about 197 vs 190mm spacing inaccurate? I have read the whole thread and talked with a number of people to gain the insight I need to make a good decision. 
How did I offend you?
H


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Shelterock said:


> 190 or 197 is all the same but relates to a choice of Quick Release QR axles or a Thru Axle.


This is not necessarily true. The "standard" is _supposed _to be 190 for Q/R and 197 for through axle, but there are some Chinese frames that have a mongrel 190mm thru axle configuration. Make sure you clarify this before you buy.



Shelterock said:


> the Spacing is 190 or 170mm in rear spacing choice, then you need an axle at 197mm to make it through the frame.


This is incorrect. The spacing width for Q/R is 190mm between the dropout faces. The spacing for thru axle is 197mm between the dropout faces (except in the mongrel configuration mentioned above). While some hubs offer interchangeable endcaps to adapt to either system, most frames can only accommodate one or the other. To do both, the frame would need to have interchangeable dropouts and I haven't seen that in any of these Chinese frames.

BTW, the actual thru axle is much longer than 197mm.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Bnystrom said:


> This is not necessarily true. The "standard" is _supposed _to be 190 for Q/R and 197 for through axle, but there are some Chinese frames that have a mongrel 190mm thru axle configuration. Make sure you clarify this before you buy.
> 
> This is incorrect. The spacing width for Q/R is 190mm between the dropout faces. The spacing for thru axle is 197mm between the dropout faces (except in the mongrel configuration mentioned above). While some hubs offer interchangeable endcaps to adapt to either system, most frames can only accommodate one or the other. To do both, the frame would need to have interchangeable dropouts and I haven't seen that in any of these Chinese frames.
> 
> BTW, the actual thru axle is much longer than 197mm.


You learn something new everyday. Apart from the ill designed frames, 190 or 170mm seems to be the standard rear spacing. The axle choice is either QR or Thru Axle. I have seen frames that offer a choice of dropouts and others that are built only one way, either QR or thru. QR is 190, Thru Axle is 197mm. Thank you for the hub endcap comment. I would think if you ordered thru axle wheel sets with Axles, you won't have to worry about the endcap choice? 
Does a Thru Axle even fit in a QR endcapped hub?

The XMiPlay NP019 has interchangeable dropouts. I think the other iPlay frame NP018 does too.







The Top-fire frame a page or two back did not, the Dengfu FM190 seems to offer interchangeable to be specified when ordering.







H


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## frl (Jul 22, 2014)

Ozzybmx. Wow, that a nice looking bike. Eye candy.


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

ozzybmx said:


> I thought it would be lighter than what it is, my reckoning was near the 10kg mark... I put 5 scoops of stans in those tyres, its still 10.6kg. Feels good though


Less than 24lbs for a fatbike is still pretty light imo. I'm building the same frame but with 65mm Nextie/Vanhelga and I will try single speed. If I get the same weight like what you have, I'll be a happy.


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

For what its worth this is a Miracle Bikes FM190. Rear spacing between the dropouts is exactly 7.5 inches or 190.5 mm.


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> While some hubs offer interchangeable endcaps to adapt to either system, most frames can only accommodate one or the other. To do both, the frame would need to have interchangeable dropouts and I haven't seen that in any of these Chinese frames.


DengFu FM190 frame can either do 190 or 197. You order the frame with 190 QR and just buy the dropouts for 197 and it's only $5 each pair.


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

Qtep said:


> DengFu FM190 frame can either do 190 or 197. You order the frame with 190 QR and just buy the dropouts for 197 and it's only $5 each pair.


I remember reading this about 40 pages back or so. Someone may have gotten a frame with one of each of the dropouts in it.


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

Obviously that's just a mistake by Dengfu and can be fix easily.. 

When I ordered my frame, I asked for 2 extra 197 dropout, just in case I brake a hanger.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Those appear to be the same as the 142x12mm dropouts that XMIplay sells. Just on a fat bike frame. You can pick them up on eBay pretty cheap now, too.

I've been riding them for about a year and a half on my 29er, no complaints. The set screw is a nice feature, too.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Shelterock said:


> You learn something new everyday. Apart from the ill designed frames, 190 or 170mm seems to be the standard rear spacing. The axle choice is either QR or Thru Axle. I have seen frames that offer a choice of dropouts and others that are built only one way, either QR or thru. QR is 190, Thru Axle is 197mm. Thank you for the hub endcap comment. I would think if you ordered thru axle wheel sets with Axles, you won't have to worry about the endcap choice?
> Does a Thru Axle even fit in a QR endcapped hub?


The "standards are:

170mm Q/R
177mm Thru axle
190mm Q/R
197mm Thru axle

There is a mongrel 190mm thru axle, but I haven't seen any mongrel 170mm frames.

As for end caps, my point was that some hubs offer interchangeable end caps for either Q/R skewer or thru axles. That allows you to adapt the hub to the type of frame you have. The end caps change the size of the hole and the overall hub width.

While Q/R hubs generally come with skewers, thru axle hubs do not typically include the axles. Axles come with the frame and fork because there are different dropout configurations and thru axles are not universal the way Q/R skewer are. For example, the thru axle from a Bluto fork will not work in a typical Chinese carbon fork. Fun, eh?



> The XMiPlay NP019 has interchangeable dropouts. I think the other iPlay frame NP018 does too.
> View attachment 986524
> 
> The Top-fire frame a page or two back did not, the Dengfu FM190 seems to offer interchangeable to be specified when ordering.
> ...


Thanks, I hadn't seen these. Frankly, they don't look particularly robust, so I'd be more likely to buy a frame that's dedicated to thru axles.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

There are plenty of people riding those dropouts in the 29er forum. Plenty sturdy.


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> There are plenty of people riding those dropouts in the 29er forum. Plenty sturdy.


Good to know. Thanks.


----------



## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

What's the theory on Crank size/length? I see 170-175mm crank lengths discussed. Physics would dictate 175mm gives you more leverage, and less clearance. 
How does it relate to the frame geometry and performance? 
Is the consideration more to the fit on the frame and the clearance to the chainstays?
As a tall person, would 175mm be better for geometry etc...?
Thanks,
H


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Bnystrom said:


> For example, the thru axle from a Bluto fork will not work in a typical Chinese carbon fork. Fun, eh?


Thanks. Never easy is it. So if I go Bluto, I should get an axle with it. Will it fit the hubs if they are already 150x15mm? no 157mm... concerns.
H


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

The original theory (developed for road riders) was that longer-legged riders should use longer cranks, though the MTB market turned that idea on it's head when it standardized on 175mm cranks for most frame sizes. However, there has been quite a bit of research done on this in recent years that indicates that it's much more individual than that. If I were you, I'd go with 175s and be done with it; it's not worth worrying about.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Shelterock said:


> Thanks. Never easy is it. So if I go Bluto, I should get an axle with it. Will it fit the hubs if they are already 150x15mm? no 157mm... concerns.
> H


The Bluto comes with the appropriate thru axle. It's the same design as their other thru axle forks, just longer.

Front hubs don't have the "double standards" that rears do. They either 135mm or 150mm, regardless of whether they're Q/R or thru axle. Go figure...


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Bnystrom said:


> The original theory (developed for road riders) was that longer-legged riders should use longer cranks, though the MTB market turned that idea on it's head when it standardized on 175mm cranks for most frame sizes. However, there has been quite a bit of research done on this in recent years that indicates that it's much more individual than that. If I were you, I'd go with 175s and be done with it; it's not worth worrying about.


Cool, Will do. I figure I'm trying to squeeze every inch out of the 21" frame. If I go with BSA 100mm BB sized crank, 175mm doesn't require any other considerations then?
H


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Shelterock said:


> Cool, Will do. I figure I'm trying to squeeze every inch out of the 21" frame. If I go with BSA 100mm BB sized crank, 175mm doesn't require any other considerations then?
> H


With 175s, your saddle height will be 5mm lower than with 170mm cranks. That's about the only difference.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

My CS-018 frame and Wheels are in the UK, let's hope customs gets them through to me quick.

I need to decide on a headset, tyres and what travel Bluto though!


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

The Carbon wheelset whilst from peter have made it, sent monday arrived friday! incredible!!


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Whether its worth anything, l dont know.....but,

During a race last weekend, it was a little wet.....



I rode 20kms in these conditions, when l cleaned and checked the bike the BB was full of dirty water, and l also needed to repack the bearings, this is the crank & bb set from ICAN. I foolishly didnt repack the bearings when l first got them.

On another note, the bike cartwheeled 3x end over end down a steep slope, much to the spectators enjoyment, and it appears to have sustained no damage. That happened on the first lap, l rode 3 more laps, just with my handlebar not straight.
I have checked the frame/fork & wheels and cant see any cracks etc.

Only time will tell l guess...........but so far so good


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

I have several paths forward on my 21" Fat Bike search. Top-fire Frame FM157 is apparently a 190x12mm thru axle set up. The Wheels would come with Powerway hubs and 190x12mm thru axels. The FM190 is a 197x12mm Thru Axle set up, with Wheels at 197x12 mm thru axles. 
Is there such a thing as 190x12mm rear, is it QR, So what is 190X12 Thru axle. IS this the mongrel frame discussed earlier. Any help here to save me from making a mistake. 
H


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

Shelterock said:


> I have several paths forward on my 21" Fat Bike search. Top-fire Frame FM157 is apparently a 190x12mm thru axle set up. The Wheels would come with Powerway hubs and 190x12mm thru axels. The FM190 is a 197x12mm Thru Axle set up, with Wheels at 197x12 mm thru axles.
> Is there such a thing as 190x12mm rear, is it QR, So what is 190X12 Thru axle. IS this the mongrel frame discussed earlier. Any help here to save me from making a mistake.
> H


The FM190 frame I have is advertised as a 190 mm x 12 mm thru axle. I posted a pic earlier that shows its 190.5mm between the dropouts. From what I've seen most of the FM190's are advertised 190 thru axle. Has anyone had one thats 197 between dropouts? I know the chosen hubs can be ordered 190 or 197 but it's probably just end caps you put on.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Shelterock said:


> Is there such a thing as 190x12mm rear, is it QR, So what is 190X12 Thru axle. IS this the mongrel frame discussed earlier. Any help here to save me from making a mistake.
> H


Yes, this is exactly the mongrel setup I referred to previously. Avoid it like the plague, as it will cause you nothing but compatibility problems (as was discussed much earlier in this thread). This was a mistake made by the frame designer and there is no good reason to buy into someone's screwup.

Stick with the accepted standard of 197mm thru axle or 190mm Q/R, especially if you think you may ever want to interchange wheels between bikes or borrow wheels from a friend or at a demo.

BTW, you may occasionally see 190mm Q/R advertized as "190 x 9mm". The 9mm refers to the diameter of the axle stub that slides up into standard open rear dropouts, as on any other Q/R wheel type (road, MTB, 'cross, etc.). Anything that refers to 12mm or 15mm is talking about thru axles.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Bnystrom said:


> Yes, this is exactly the mongrel setup I referred to previously. Avoid it like the plague, as it will cause you nothing but compatibility problems (as was discussed much earlier in this thread). This was a mistake made by the frame designer and there is no good reason to buy into someone's screwup.


Bnystrom, Thank you. I've been feverously back reading the beginning of this thread to gain that insight. I never saw mention of the FM157 frame before. The Alibaba Line-up showed 190x12 and 197x12 but what I'm getting is only 190x12 Thru axle offered. I guess FM190 is my choice them. 
Thanks to you and the helpful forum contributors for educating me. I hope to have a decision and trigger pulled soon.
H


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

In trying to figure out what is "standard" There apparently isn't just one. On the Carver Website:

Keeping up with the fatbike hub standards is enough to make one crazy. Luckily Carver Bikes is around to distill it all into the essentials. We offer two different hub bodies, one in 170mm (300g) and one in 190mm (340g). Each of these offerings has three possible configurations:

The 10×170/190 QR front hub is a great reference hub to fit most QR fatbikes with standard rear fat spacing.

The 12×177/197mm thru-axle hub is a good match for most 12x thru axle fatbikes.

The 12×170/190mm thru-axle hub fits a few imported frames whose thru axle-spacing is 170mm or 190mm instead of the more common 177mm.

Swapping end caps is a breeze, and the hubs have cartridge bearings for long life and easy serviceability. The hub can be built with either a SRAM XD driver or a Shimano-compatible freehub. 6 pawls in 24 points provide decent engagement and in typical Carver style, this ain’t no highway robbery…we’re selling each hub for $150.00! Various decals are available.

Hub measurements for the 170mm hub body:
Flange Diameter: 57.5mm
Right Center to Flange: 36mm
Left Center to Flange: 36mm

Hub measurements for the 190mm hub body:
Flange Diameter: 57.5mm
Right Center to Flange: 60mm
Left Center to Flange: 45mm


Specs
•Spacing: 170, 177, 190 or 197mm
•Weight: 300g (170/177mm); 340g (190/197mm)
•Standard QR or thru-axle
•6-Bolt disc


Interestingly, You can go a few different ways. Is 197mm Thru Axle the wave of the future? 
H


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I believe 197 TA is where most fat bikes will end up. Like others have said, I would stay away from 190 TA, that's great there's one other option for a hub, but none of the big hub manufacturers (hope, i9 etc) have them.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Shelterock said:


> I have several paths forward on my 21" Fat Bike search. Top-fire Frame FM157 is apparently a 190x12mm thru axle set up. The Wheels would come with Powerway hubs and 190x12mm thru axels. The FM190 is a 197x12mm Thru Axle set up, with Wheels at 197x12 mm thru axles.
> Is there such a thing as 190x12mm rear, is it QR, So what is 190X12 Thru axle. IS this the mongrel frame discussed earlier. Any help here to save me from making a mistake.
> H


If you liked the FM157, you might be interested in this one that I have been looking at:

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32308478998.html

It's a 12x197 and has similar Geo to the FM157. Also looks like it should fit a bluto.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

I would just like to confirm that A CS-018 frame in 18inch takes a bluto without a bigger crown race.

thanks


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> If you liked the FM157, you might be interested in this one that I have been looking at:
> 
> Online Shop ORGE 2015 China Hot Sale Fat Bike Fat Frame 26er Snow Frame Rear spacing 197mm 26er Fat Frame|Aliexpress Mobile
> 
> It's a 12x197 and has similar Geo to the FM157. Also looks like it should fit a bluto.


Hi Negotiator50, This frame stops at 19". I'm 6'7" / 1.99m and shrinking, so that size doesn't work for me. Thanks for thinking about it though, I need at least a 21"
H


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Jisch said:


> I believe 197 TA is where most fat bikes will end up. Like others have said, I would stay away from 190 TA, that's great there's one other option for a hub, but none of the big hub manufacturers (hope, i9 etc) have them.


Thanks Jisch. Frustrations abound with being on the edge of mainstream society at 6'7". It comes down to the FM190 21" frame in that case. Interestingly KHS 4Season 5000 runs a 190x12mm rear thru axle. I think functionally there's no issue with it but flexibility wise you're out of the mainstream. My plan all along was to go 29er+ with this frame on a second set of wheels. If getting a 190x12 hub for a 29X3" wheel is going to be a challenge, them I'm gonna pass.
H


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Guys, how is the quality of the actual thru axles? I was reading about the CX thru axle thread and the guys are reporting weird fitment, strange fasteners etc. 
Thanks in advance


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

ICAN frame and wheelset, no thru-axle fitment issues at all


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Swerny said:


> Guys, how is the quality of the actual thru axles? I was reading about the CX thru axle thread and the guys are reporting weird fitment, strange fasteners etc.
> Thanks in advance


No issues with Carbon speed CS018 axles either.


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

devans said:


> No issues with XMIPLAY CS018 axles either.


Not XMIPLAY, my company name is Carbon Speed now, CS-Carbon Speed.








Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

PeterXu said:


> Not XMIPLAY, my company name is Carbon Speed now, CS-Carbon Speed.
> View attachment 987800
> 
> 
> Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


Sorry Peter!!^^


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Swerny said:


> Guys, how is the quality of the actual thru axles? I was reading about the CX thru axle thread and the guys are reporting weird fitment, strange fasteners etc.


Considering that the thru axles typically come with the frame and fork, as long as you use hubs of the right size for them, there shouldn't be any issues with them fitting. However, that doesn't mean that they will be usable with other frames or forks, as there is no standard for how thru axles work. For example:


Rockshox forks have a thru axle that threads directly into the left side dropout. You tighten it like a wingnut, then flipping the lever expands the end of the axle so it can't unscrew. 
In contrast, every Chinese carbon fork I've looked at has a separate nut for the end of the axle that fits into a recess in the fork. Flipping the lever tensions the axle in the same manner that a Q/R skewer does. On the fork that I have, the axle and nut can be reversed, so you can have the lever on whichever side you want (though I can't think of any good reason to have it on the disk side). 
Focus 'cross bikes use yet another system, with thru axles that only require a quarter turn to install them, a brilliant design which is proprietary to their frames, at least for now. 

So as with many things related to fat bikes, there are no real standards.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Mine (on my 29er from XMIplay) was good until I made the mistake of not using the set screw on the dropout once. It fell off during a race. I used a twist-tie from my number plate to hold the thru axle in place until I finished. 

Now, I'm using the set screw, of course, in conjunction with a DT Swiss e-thru bolt.

I throw the original on for use on the trainer still. It's pretty beaten up. But, a DT e-thru is like $18, so it was an easy decision to make.


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

More info for the rear spacing. This is a Chosen 197 mm hub. Measures 190 mm end to end. There seems to be alot of confusion about these widths. Either way it fits my FM190 frame.


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

Here's my SS FM190 with Nextie Black Eagle.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

mortelec,
How did you end up buying from? how was the experience?
H


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Qtep,
Sweet ride! what size frame is this? Do you have a post with all the kit for this bike? I like the color combos too. Nice build!
Who did you purchase from and how was the experience?
H


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

Thanks Shelterock. 

What kit are you asking?.. hubset?.. I'm using Hope Fatsno hubs front and back. 

Ordered the medium FM190 frame from DengFu and Nextie directly.. I received the frame within 2 weeks from paying, Rims was held by customs for a while so, I waited for a bit. But all in all it was a smooth transaction. Build quality are superb! 

With the current setup it is at 21.47lbs on my cheapo Amazon fish scale.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Qtep said:


> Thanks Shelterock.
> 
> What kit are you asking?.. hubset?.. I'm using Hope Fatsno hubs front and back.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Direct from Dengfu then. Wendy?
H


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

Shelterock said:


> mortelec,
> How did you end up buying from? how was the experience?
> H


Velocarbon off of ebay. They shipped within a couple hours. The package sat in customs in the US for 12 days though.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Qtep said:


> Thanks Shelterock.
> 
> What kit are you asking?.. hubset?.. I'm using Hope Fatsno hubs front and back.
> 
> ...


That is a rad looking machine! SS for the win.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Cassette body question. 
I'd like to go with the recently announced SRAM GX 1x11 set up. Wasn't clear whether there will be a fat Bike option, but I suspect there will be. 
If ordering the wheels requires a choice of cassette body, how easily is this switched or can you not switch from Shimano to SRAM? I have a choice of Shimano or SRAM XX1. Should I ask for both so I can chose later? Thanks for your thoughts,
H


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

QStep,
Can you tell me about the metal/alloy protection piece by the chainwheel up front. Is this a Dengfu option? What is it called and where could I get it? Did it come with your frame?
H


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

Shelterock said:


> QStep,
> Can you tell me about the metal/alloy protection piece by the chainwheel up front. Is this a Dengfu option? What is it called and where could I get it? Did it come with your frame?
> H


The metal piece on the frame is just a stick on and comes with the frame.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Shelterock said:


> Cassette body question.
> I'd like to go with the recently announced SRAM GX 1x11 set up. Wasn't clear whether there will be a fat Bike option, but I suspect there will be.


there are two kinds of cassette bodies: SRAM 11 speed or Shimano 10 speed (while it's confusing a SRAM 10 speed cassette will fit on a "shimano" 10 speed cassette body).

If you are planning on getting the GX you need to get a SRAM XX1 cassette body. My understanding is the GX won't be available until July, which probably means September.

In cassettes or cassette bodies there is no such thing as anything being fat bike specific, just different gear ranges that will work on any bike with the appropriate cassette body. The hub width does not dictate any of this.


----------



## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

Shelterock said:


> Thanks, Direct from Dengfu then. Wendy?
> H


Yes.


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## mortelec (Feb 11, 2015)

Qtep said:


> The metal piece on the frame is just a stick on and comes with the frame.


Was on mine also that came from Miracle Bikes.


----------



## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Thanks Qstep, Mortelec and Jisch.

Jisch, Can you switch cassette bodies easily, incase I get everything and no GX till September? I guess I'd like the option. It seems to come down to Cassette, 10x42 11 speed, choice and then the appropriate rear derailleur to service that cassette. Crank and BB and front chain wheel seem independent choices. 
What about the choice of chain wheel vs chain type, narrow wide design and minimizing chain drops. Does the tooth design on the cassette need to match the front chain ring?
People seem to mix and match all different brands, Race Face with Shimano and or SRAM from different level groupsets.
Confusing, but I'm getting there.
H


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Yes, you can change the cassette bodies, how easily depends on your hub, but it's relatively simple on any hub. 

if you're running an 11 speed cassette you need an 11 speed derailleur. 

Any currently available 11 speed system is going to employ a narrow/wide front chainring. They do hold the chain on a lot better than "shiftable" rings (ones meant to be used with a front derailleur). Note if you want to use a front derailleur you CAN'T use a narrow/wide ring up front. 

You can mix and match most any component as long as it's built for the same number of speeds - a 9 speed chain is wider than a 10 speed chain which is in turn wider than an 11 speed chain. The exception to that is that you CAN'T use a SRAM shifter (handlebar part) with a Shimano derailleur or vice versa. They use different leverage ratios so the amount of cable movement for a shift is different. Many front narrow/wide rings can be used with a few different speeds (i.e. one ring will work with either 9 or 10 speed). 

Get a rear derailleur with a clutch. They are much quieter and bounce around less, meaning less likely to lose a chain.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Jisch, Thanks, I build RC Multirotor and planes etc. Mixing and matching all kinds of stuff. On the bike side I rode semi Pro in Europe 20 years ago, but with BMX Freestyle and Vert type stuff. No gears. LOL!
Thanks for getting my head wrapped around this. Very cool. I'm excited about building this bike.
H


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

msedbaue said:


> That is a rad looking machine! SS for the win.


Thanks msedbaue. First time trying out single speed, with 22t cog I think it's perfect for our local trail here in VA.


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## robertbbr (Apr 18, 2006)

Any luck? I'm about to order a stealth dropper!



bombermate said:


> Well I've got a dropper in the mail along with all the other parts for the build so as soon as I start building it I may be able to figure it out.
> May need to drill out a larger hole though at the headtube considering there are 3 cables that will be going to the back: brakes, derailleur & dropper...
> 
> P.S. mine is a 16" SN01


----------



## Rango (Nov 10, 2014)

I'm running Magura MT8 brakes on my ICAN with a 180 rotor in the front and 160 rear. Does anyone know what adapters I need?


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Postmount 180 or just use some spacers in the front.dont need adapters on the rear brake.


----------



## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Well, Last night I rode a Salsa Beargrease 2 in a 21' frame. Stock setup. At 6'7" I felt cramped in the cockpit. It had 100mm stem and flat bars, 175mm cranks and a straight seat post. We put the seat as far back as possible in the seat post. 
I'm conflicted. To fit on a 21" frame it appears I need a lot of bandaids to make it work. Rising stem, raised bars and offset seatpost. To make a ~$2600 investment in something that doesn't really fit, without being able to throw a leg over it, seems unproductive. I may have to change plans.

I'd like to thank all the kind and helpful folks on this board/thread for your insights and suggestions. Going to have to sleep on this some more.
H


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

I believe at 6'7 you will need to 'bandaid' any bike you want.......


----------



## tedsti (Oct 22, 2004)

Shelterock said:


> Well, Last night I rode a Salsa Beargrease 2 in a 21' frame. Stock setup. At 6'7" I felt cramped in the cockpit. It had 100mm stem and flat bars, 175mm cranks and a straight seat post. We put the seat as far back as possible in the seat post.
> I'm conflicted. To fit on a 21" frame it appears I need a lot of bandaids to make it work. Rising stem, raised bars and offset seatpost. To make a ~$2600 investment in something that doesn't really fit, without being able to throw a leg over it, seems unproductive. I may have to change plans.
> 
> I'd like to thank all the kind and helpful folks on this board/thread for your insights and suggestions. Going to have to sleep on this some more.
> H


If you are not set on carbon, you may want to check Ventana.

El Gordo | Ventana Mountain Bikes USA


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Shelterock said:


> I'd like to thank all the kind and helpful folks on this board/thread for your insights and suggestions. Going to have to sleep on this some more.
> H


Well, shelterock... if you hadn't be so ignorant with you first 30 posts, you wouldn't have a red rep. Questions are asked over and over and over and over and over again here... with no thanks or appreciation usually go unanswered. Mostly if people read the first few pages the the post, all questions are answered already.

I can see you are genuinely after some info, but.. read the posts man, the info is there without us repeating ourselves.

I look forward to giving you a green one sometime soon.


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## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Nevermind! I'm blind!


----------



## Wantax (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi guys for those with a SN01 frame , how did you runthe rd cable?

Im having some troubles with the tunning of it since the external wire that i used cant enter the holes so it stops directly with the frame an like is not possible to put end caps between the wire and the frame, with the use the wire is going slowly inside of the frame having to give more tension for tune the rd 

I thought in to drill a bit the holes of the frame for do them bigger and run full lenght wire from trigger to rd

Any suggestions?

Tank you in advance guys


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

newmarketrog said:


> rode a chinese plastic frame recently. yuck.
> 
> carry on.


See that's your first mistake right there :madman:

You rode a plastic frame NOT a carbon one.

:thumbsup:

Silly troll :arf:

Carry on.

Fat Biker


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

newmarketrog said:


> sugarcoat china plastic any way you want.


I don't need to thank you.

Feel free to keep paying over the odds for big name brands that most likely come out of the same "China plastic" factories.

Nothing to see here. 
Run along.

Fat Biker


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

D'oH. ! 

Now look I've gone and fed the troll. 

Sorry guys 

LOL


Fat Biker


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Wantax said:


> Hi guys for those with a SN01 frame , how did you runthe rd cable?
> 
> Im having some troubles with the tunning of it since the external wire that i used cant enter the holes so it stops directly with the frame an like is not possible to put end caps between the wire and the frame, with the use the wire is going slowly inside of the frame having to give more tension for tune the rd
> 
> ...


pics, as I dont think I understand what you mean


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

newmarketrog said:


> not into plastic. won't be paying any to anyone for it. rode it and thot it was far from all that. felt cheap and fragile with no personality. you don't like my honest opinion after riding it cuz you love the cheap plastic.
> 
> enjoy


Thanks. That was exactly the bike I was looking for. You just helped me make the decision to go for it. Thank you!


----------



## Wantax (Jan 26, 2010)

cmg71 said:


> pics, as I dont think I understand what you mean


What i mean is that the holes in the frame arent big enought for pass the rear hose wire, so i installed the wire without even the ferrule because doesnt have enought space for it.

The question for you guys if you just drilled-filed the holes a bit for pass the full hose or use a thinner hose

I think im going to file it a bit, but prefer to ear what the rest of the guys did it

Thank you


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

I was able to pass the rear derailleur cable housing through my frame with no problems, l also had no problems with the rear brake hose, in fact l wish the holes were a little tighter.

Im sorry, but l think lm still not properly understanding your issue.


----------



## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Opinions have been stated. 

He prefers steel over ti too. No shame in that. Not a big plastic frame myself either, hence not hanging out in this thread. 

Should he feel the need to keep baiting for retorts so everyone can get cranky now that ya'll know how he feels? Let me know.....

Move along everyone.


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

newmarketrog said:


> rode a chinese plastic frame recently. yuck.
> 
> carry on.





newmarketrog said:


> sugarcoat china plastic any way you want.





newmarketrog said:


> not into plastic. won't be paying any to anyone for it. rode it and thot it was far from all that. felt cheap and fragile with no personality. you don't like my honest opinion after riding it cuz you love the cheap plastic.
> 
> enjoy





newmarketrog said:


> just an fyi, only ghey boi's throw negatiive reps
> 
> SWERNY!!!! hahaha


let's hope your account was hacked Rog


----------



## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

Swerny said:


> let's hope your account was hacked Rog


ya that bastid, simple1 was acting up again with my account!!!

sorry gang, moving on


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Found a fun decal for the FM190.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Ive been looking for something similar, but it will be in my line of sight.

As a side note, l have the same tyres, but mine are the ChanYongs, l just turned my rear around, have read in a few places it hooks up better that way. Havent tried it yet though.

Edit: just noticed they are not Fatbnimbles, sorry, very similar tread pattern though.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Wantax said:


> What i mean is that the holes in the frame arent big enought for pass the rear hose wire, so i installed the wire without even the ferrule because doesnt have enought space for it.
> 
> The question for you guys if you just drilled-filed the holes a bit for pass the full hose or use a thinner hose
> 
> ...


a couple of pictures would really make things clearer, I certainly wouldn't be drilling anything just yet.......


----------



## Wantax (Jan 26, 2010)

Thank you for your help.

Went this morning to my LBS and bought a couple of meters of 4mm housing.

With the new house didnt have any troubles passing it throught the frame, so now the problem is solved.

Cheers


----------



## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

You guys getting creaking noise on a non carbon seat post?.. 

It's no matter how I tighten the collar even applying some carbon paste has yet to stop the creaking.. It's annoying to say the least.


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Is is definitely the post in the frame ? 

Could be the rails in the seat shell or seat rails in the seatpost clamp ?

Fat Biker


----------



## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Try some lube between the collar and seat tube.


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

In my experience, carbon paste makes things creak. Clean it very well and maybe a *very* light coating of lube, if at all. Usu what works best for me is cleaning the post and tube really well.


----------



## Convoy (Feb 21, 2015)

Be very wary of using lube on a non carbon post in a carbon frame. You'll increase the risk of galvanic corrosion. Carbon is a cathode with a potential of +0.81 volts and Alu is an anode with a potential of -1.67. The difference in a potential of 2.48 volts!

I've seen carbon frames split in only a few months from this problem as the Alu will swell as it becomes oxidised. In fact I saw a road bike that had split at the seat post insert and the bottom bracket sleeve last week.


----------



## frl (Jul 22, 2014)

Really, didn't know that carbon could make galvanic corrosion. 
Thanks for the info Convoy.


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

frl said:


> Really, didn't know that carbon could make galvanic corrosion.
> Thanks for the info Convoy.


It can happen whenever carbon fibers _directly_ contact aluminum. If they're encapsulated in resin or there is an intermediate layer of some other material that keeps them from making direct contact (grease, assembly paste), it's not an issue. That's why carbon seatposts aren't a huge problem in Al frames; they typically have a resin coat on their outer surface (glossy is good here). Anodizing Al posts helps, too. Also, keep in mind that grease and assembly paste get squeezed out and/or washed out over time. Adding water, dirt and/or salt (from the beach or winter roads) to the mix is a recipe for disaster.

Frames have some resin on the inner surface, but it's inconsistent and the manufacturing process is all about maximizing the fiber content and minimizing resin, which increases strength and reduce weight. Consequently, you have to be careful when using Al seatposts.

FWIW, I've had no problems with Thomson posts in carbon frames. If you want to be certain of having not issues, use a carbon or Ti post.


----------



## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

*Press in headset cups*



PeterXu said:


> Now we have CS-N019 in all sizes 15''/17''/19'' in UD matt in stock
> 
> 26er full carbon fat bike frame frame 150*15mm/190*10mm QR/197*12mm axle
> 
> 5.0'' max tire clearance


 Peter or anyone else is there carbon fat bike frame that has Press in headset cups? Not IS52 IS42 that is integrated into most carbon frames, that has the drop in bearings.

I want to use Crane Creek angleset (headset) and change the head tube angle.

I built up a 24 1/2 pound lefty fork, fat bike FM 197 ,that started out life with a 68.5 head tube angle now it's 66.5 degrees and the steering is way too slow in rough rock gardens , That is why I want to change steepen the head angle to 68.5 or 69 degrees


----------



## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

*The beast has woken!*

When i brought the fat b1tch home i was full of regret but after i gave her a ride this morning, i'm totally i fatty convert, she's all i'll ride now.


----------



## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

devans said:


> When i brought the fat b1tch home i was full of regret but after i gave her a ride this morning, i'm totally i fatty convert, she's all i'll ride now.
> 
> View attachment 992602
> 
> ...


sexy ride. welcome to the fat club


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

devans said:


> When i brought the fat b1tch home i was full of regret but after i gave her a ride this morning, i'm totally i fatty convert, she's all i'll ride now.
> 
> View attachment 992602
> 
> ...


What size bluto is that? 100 or 120? How does it ride?


----------



## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

120mm rides perfect on an 18inch CS-18 frame! short 50mm stem and 760mm wide bar means lots of control


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Hey guys, my SN01 is complete.




SN01 FTW! Now need to find where to buy rear rack, accessories etc etc.

The whole build is here:
https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/build-your-dream-chinese-carbon-fatty-947441-3.html#post12027133


----------



## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

That steerer tube though!


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Cut it before you come with a fatbike in the forehead to the hospital


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

That isn't safe. 

Please don't ride that bike until cut to an appropriate length.


----------



## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> That isn't safe.
> 
> Please don't ride that bike until cut to an appropriate length.


If that is the height he needs to be comfortable, then that is the safest height for him.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Lars_D said:


> If that is the height he needs to be comfortable, then that is the safest height for him.


Seeing as multiple fork manufacturers have stated maximums (Enve, Easton, Trek, Specialized) for their carbon steerers of 50mm/2", and that appears to be much more, I'll have to disagree with you there.


----------



## Gambit21 (Feb 6, 2015)

Yep


----------



## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Seeing as multiple fork manufacturers have stated maximums (Enve, Easton, Trek, Specialized) for their carbon steerers of 50mm/2", and that appears to be much more, I'll have to disagree with you there.


I stand corrected. I didn't realize that carbon forks had maximum lengths above the head tube for their steering tubes.


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> Seeing as multiple fork manufacturers have stated maximums (Enve, Easton, Trek, Specialized) for their carbon steerers of 50mm/2", and that appears to be much more, I'll have to disagree with you there.


Righto, so I reckon I'll cut it off to leave two 20mm spacers in there as thats the max and go from there adding stems and whatnot if need be.

Thinking of this 50mm riser bar:
ProTAPER® Carbon 720 AM | Answer Products


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

bombermate said:


> Righto, so I reckon I'll cut it off to leave two 20mm spacers in there as thats the max and go from there adding stems and whatnot if need be.
> 
> Thinking of this 50mm riser bar:
> ProTAPER® Carbon 720 AM | Answer Products


If you need you bars at that height, I don't see how that frame size is going to work for you.

What's the HT length on your frame?


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Swerny said:


> If you need you bars at that height, I don't see how that frame size is going to work for you.
> 
> What's the HT length on your frame?


100mm

SN01 Fat bike frame BB shell 120mm - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

Maybe its too small 

Im 173cm and got the 16" size.


----------



## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

bombermate said:


> 100mm
> 
> SN01 Fat bike frame BB shell 120mm - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> ...


With such a short stem it is likely too small. I stand behind my previous recommendation. Start adding spacers and try longer stems.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


----------



## ro7939 (May 25, 2009)

Pancake Adventure said:


> Uh, the reality is that bike companies pay for all of the tooling, testing, and design on unique products like fatbikes and fat rims.
> 
> Cheapasses buying cheap **** on the internet affects everyone, no matter how you justify it.
> 
> FYI.


I invented a product that seasons wood in music instruments, employing bending wave technology. A company then known as NXT made all the tools and dies associated with the product. I estimate I paid a little over half, NXT in China paid the balance.

I have no reason to believe it's different with bikes or anything else. China is all about making money, both short term and long term.

It's just my opinion, but I believe passing moral judgements on how and what persons purchase with their own money are a distraction and should comprise a separate thread.


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

bombermate said:


> Maybe its too small
> 
> Im 173cm and got the 16" size.


Based on your height, the frame size should be fine or at least close enough. Assuming that the saddle height is correct, it doesn't appear that you should have gone with a bigger frame. However, the pictures indicate that the bars are *way* above the height of the saddle, which is pretty ridiculous. There is no reason that you should need or want them to be that high. It shifts your weight too far back and compromises your ability to control the bike when cornering. It's also a major disadvantage when climbing anything steep.

For most people, the issue with fat bikes is getting the bars *low* enough, due to their high head tubes. While you may want to be conservative when cutting the steerer and use the maximum amount of spacers initially (as you previously stated and not a bad idea), chances are that you'll eventually end up with the bars near or below the level of the saddle (assuming that the latter is possible), depending on your riding style preferences.


----------



## dwilson (Dec 8, 2006)

*FM190 Build*

Finally done, SS about 22lbs.


----------



## Geek (Aug 17, 2010)

Gorgeous bike! :thumbsup:

I am a such a sucker for baby blue...


----------



## dwilson (Dec 8, 2006)

Thanks, me too. Its Porsche Gulf Blue, the same blue used in the Gulf racing cars minus the orange.


----------



## Paulieb (May 31, 2015)

dwilson said:


> Thanks, me too. Its Porsche Gulf Blue, the same blue used in the Gulf racing cars minus the orange.


that would look nice next to my transporter.... its stone blue......


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Back in March I recieved my SN01, and Im totally stoked :thumbsup:

I also ordered the ICAN Bike Parts Set (which I think is ok for the price)



but, one issue Ive had (and it is a personal issue, not with the parts themselves) is the flex in the handlebar & stem. I knew carbon "absorbed" some vibration but the flex in the handlebar/stem combo is (at the end of the 700mm bar) about 20mm, ie: when I stand over the bike and hold it steady with my legs and then flex the bars, I get a movement (up and down) of 20mm. 
Ive noticed this while riding in fast tech sections, maybe not fatbike territory but this is becoming my "one" bike as I use it for everything. Now Im 188cm & ~92kgs, I think that makes me nearly a Clyde, and regardless of how certain bikes should ride/handle, I didnt like it, I have slowly got used to it, but it has also always bothered me.

So thanks to having some time on my hands, due to a shattered Tibia from riding the Skateboard :madman:, I have had a lot of time to read crap on the internet. In another thread a link was posted to shop which I then looked at, and consequently spent some of my hard earned at .

So originally from ICAN I recieved the 90mm Stem & 700 mm Handlebar (both Carbon), today I received my order, of which the important part is that for ~46 Euros I picked up these two:
90mm FSA Afterburner Stem
785mm Funn Handlebar



For the weight watchers, the difference is +211gr (old Handlebar/Stem = 254gr,), which I dont think will be an issue as I've thought the front of my SN01 was always light (quite a few "test" riders have said that as well) ie: its a bloody wheelie machine. The new set up is temporally mounted (without brakes/gears/grips) and it feels a shedload stiffer.

Unfortunately I wont be able to test it properly for another 4 weeks , but Im already stoked.

In thinking about it, there is no real reason for this post, as its purely a personal opinion, but maybe if you are thinking of a Carbon Stem/Handlebar combo, think about whether the "flex" is something you want.


----------



## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

I think it has to be said that the diameter of the bar/stem is massively relevant if they're carbon. I have the new Raceface Next Carbon in 35mm diameter and with the matching 50mm length RF stem, there is ZERO flex.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

you raise a good point devans

and Id be interested to know the diameter or thickness of these parts, but Im lazy

Im also very interested to know whether I will now feel flex in the frame, the seat post flexes like crazy, which is ok (for me), but now I wanna know how the frame feels.

Im a little worried the Handlebar/stem flex covered up the frame flex, that I will see in the future I guess.


----------



## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Diameter and thickness, while important, are not the only contributing factors. The layup (how individual plies are oriented) has a huge role in the stiffness of the final part and should not be ignored. Just because two handlebars look and feel the same does not mean they will have the same amount of flex. 

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


----------



## dickyelsdon (Dec 22, 2010)

Looking to swap out my 2013 Large Mukluk for a larger carbon frame, but struggling to find anything with more reach. Im already looking at extra cost due to no carbon frames being 170mm hub / 100mm bb so new parts required, dont want to drop all that money to end up with a bike thats only a little longer.

The large Muk has a reach of 435mm, 625mm stack, 625mm TT, 150mm TT and i run a few spacers.

A carbonspeed CS-010 in 19" has a 445mm reach, 602mm stack, 625mm TT and 130mm HT. So only 10mm extra reach, but measured at a lower stack, so throw in some spacers and its basically the same as the Muk.

The CS-019 looks nicest carbon frame ive found, the reach is not given but a 21" has a TT of 630mm with a 169mm HT, so sounds like it could be a little longer as id need no spacers, but were talking mm not inches so not really enough increase for the cost.


So question is, how does real life geo compare to what you guys have received?
And does anyone know if there are longer carbon frames available out there?

Ta,
Rich.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

My opinion is not based on any scientific facts as i tend to just buy what sounds best and let my body get used to the differences.

I'm just under 6 foot, i ride a Carbonspeed CS-18 in 18inch, 50mm stem, the reach imo is quite far compared to previous bikes i've owned for it's size.


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

Bnystrom said:


> Based on your height, the frame size should be fine or at least close enough. Assuming that the saddle height is correct, it doesn't appear that you should have gone with a bigger frame. However, the pictures indicate that the bars are *way* above the height of the saddle, which is pretty ridiculous. There is no reason that you should need or want them to be that high. It shifts your weight too far back and compromises your ability to control the bike when cornering. It's also a major disadvantage when climbing anything steep.
> 
> For most people, the issue with fat bikes is getting the bars *low* enough, due to their high head tubes. While you may want to be conservative when cutting the steerer and use the maximum amount of spacers initially (as you previously stated and not a bad idea), chances are that you'll eventually end up with the bars near or below the level of the saddle (assuming that the latter is possible), depending on your riding style preferences.


Righto!
I contacted ICAN directly and they told me that their rated maximum stacker height is 42mm. So I cut the steerer down and put 2x20mm stem spacers under there.

I also ordered and got myself a new high-rise handlebar from Answer. Result: now I have no problems when powering up a hill. I can actually keep my back straight and pull on the handlebars hard to be able to put the torque down onto the pedals.

I didnt really want to go the long stem way because:
a) the one I already got (2nd one) cost me an arm and a leg and is very light and
b) from reading a bunch of articles I came to the conclusion that a shorter stem gives you much better control, especially on single track while wider bars also add to that control on the trail.

Downhill is pretty awesome and overall I felt much more comfortable on the bike this last weekend. Had some fun in a local MTB park in Adelaide:

P.S On my previous pics I took photos right after riding through some rough stuff - and because I got the dropper post I had it set down to its lowest setting. This pic above shows the seat height I am actually riding with when predalling on flat ground. Its a bit higher and closer to the handlebar height than on previous pics.

This bike is pretty awesome fun! Thanks to all for contributing to this thread - thats what made me go ahead and build this bike.



cmg71 said:


> Back in March I recieved my SN01, and Im totally stoked :thumbsup:
> 
> In thinking about it, there is no real reason for this post, as its purely a personal opinion, but maybe if you are thinking of a Carbon Stem/Handlebar combo, think about whether the "flex" is something you want.


My short 30mm stem & high rise bar from Answer (720mm) is stiff as hell and as far as I can tell has ZERO flex.


----------



## Rob Bandur (Jul 2, 2015)

What is the best brake system for this kind of build , hydraulic or cable or does it depend on preference?
Any recommendations for the massive tires on 10 speed cassette?
I am doing a build on this:

Aliexpress.com : Buy Big Discount ! 26ER Carbon Fat Frame/Toray Carbon Fibre Snow Bike Fat Frame/ MTB Frame+Fork from Reliable Bicycle Frame suppliers on Sister Outdoor Sports Equipment Store | Alibaba Group
What about cassette range 11-32t or 11-36t?


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

I prefer hydros, but I've had both, either will work. 

I like a wider range cassette. If you're having trouble with gearing being too tall, adjust with front ring size.


----------



## Rob Bandur (Jul 2, 2015)

gi02sl said:


> I prefer hydros, but I've had both, either will work.
> 
> I like a wider range cassette. If you're having trouble with gearing being too tall, adjust with front ring size.


Thanks for the reply , by wider you mean 11-36t not 11-30t?
Also the brake mount on this frames is post mount correct?
No need for any adapters if using 160mm rotors?


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Yes that's what I meant by wider.

I didn't build up the same frame, but my build required no adapters with 160 rotors.


----------



## Rob Bandur (Jul 2, 2015)

gi02sl said:


> Yes that's what I meant by wider.
> 
> I didn't build up the same frame, but my build required no adapters with 160 rotors.


Did you go hydraulic , does the hose fit through the frame hole ok?


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

It did on my SN01.


----------



## bombermate (Jan 24, 2015)

gi02sl said:


> It did on my SN01.


I had to "clean" the holes on my SN01 from paint debris with a drill. The holes are fitted with aluminum by the way so dont worry about damaging the carbon frame itself.

See my trials and tribulations here (lots of pics of the build):
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/build-your-dream-chinese-carbon-fatty-947441.html


----------



## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

It's a lot easier to fit the cables through the frame with the fork off, you can guide it in from the bottom and use your fingers through the head tube.

I didn't drill out any holes in my CS-18 frame.

I run 160mm rotor at the back no worries, 200mm up front. Hydro all the way, they are so cheap i don't see why your go mechanical unless riding in silly cold temperatures. 

I've got a build thread you can search for in my posts if you want to see mine.


----------



## Rob Bandur (Jul 2, 2015)

Thanks for the replies , i will go hydraulic for sure.


----------



## Rob Bandur (Jul 2, 2015)

I bought the Relic crank that comes assembled with the complete carbon fiber bikes from China and i tried to find the crank ring bolt circle with no success.
Is anybody using this crank?

Fat Bike Crankset 36-22T 170mm Arm Length 120mm BSA ? icancycling


----------



## headset76 (Jul 15, 2015)

HI , i ll recieved my new ip-n019 next week. I want to know which crankset fit on that frame with 100mm bsa and 197mm rear? I think the best choice for price is a raceface turbine but seems to be tricky to install?
Thanks!


----------



## aziator (Oct 16, 2012)

My Carbon Speed CS-N019 with 100mm CS Wheels came yesterday. Unfortunately I am still out of the country for another 3 months so all I get to do it look at pics and keep ordering parts to build it. My buddy holding it rides a Bronson and was pretty impressed with the quality and weight.


----------



## nicholaspe (Oct 29, 2009)

I've watched this thread for a while and read posts until I couldn't see straight. I ride a lot, but have done limited building over the years so please go easy on me! I am interested in finding a build that has come together as planned (i.e. no one had to use a lathe to make something fit) and then loosely pattern my build around that. I have worked with Peter a little in the past when he was with iplay, but I think he is branched off and is Carbon Speed. I am interested in the CS-N019. From what I gather, an N019 is the same no matter who I get it from. I am having a hard time finding an N019 that has been completed. Maybe I've missed it. Maybe there are some big red flags I should be aware off? I'm getting ready to dive in but want to avoid any common errors. Thanks in advanced for any "pearls of wisdom" from the group.


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

I just received my FB01 from Speeder Cycle. Its the same frame as the SN01. Did anyone have a problem putting a 180 mm brake rotor on the rear? The 180 rotor rubs against the brake mounts on my frame.


----------



## nicholaspe (Oct 29, 2009)

Love the build. Am considering the same frame. Are you willing to share your the details on the bike. I didn't see the specs anywhere. Also, can you tell me if you had to use a 190 mm bb spindle? I was told that with some cranks, only a 190 will give enough clearance to not hit the chain stay. Anything you are willing to share about the bike would be great. I'm hoping to avoid as many errors as possible!


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Negotiator50 said:


> I just received my FB01 from Speeder Cycle. Its the same frame as the SN01. Did anyone have a problem putting a 180 mm brake rotor on the rear? The 180 rotor rubs against the brake mounts on my frame.


I just went and had a look at mine, SN01 with 160mm rotors, I reckon with the extra 10mm (ie for the 180mm rotor) it would definitely be damn close to if not touching the forward brake mount.
I guess by now you have solved the issue, or just gone with the 160mm rotor.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

5 month review: No issues other than a tiny one - the front 15mm axle clamp has come loose a few times. It seems like a bad design, but it works as long as you make sure it is stupid tight. Other than that my not-losing-weight-like-I-wanted-to fat ass 225lb self has been riding it all over. I have a slight creak in the bottom bracket but probably just need to take it apart and clean/lube once.


----------



## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

Hmmm, something's missing.


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

*Cracked Frame*

Before I do anything drastic, I was hoping to get some of your opinions on whether you think the crack that has developed in my new frame (SN01 equivalent) after about 3 rides is structural and whether you feel the seller's warranty process is acceptable. First, take a look at a very small crack on the top tube near the seat tube after three rides on a brand new frame I received last week:

















The seller is asking me to cut that part of the frame with a saw and mail it back to China so the warranty department / engineers can determine whether the crack is covered under warranty. Since I dont have much experience with international purchases such as this, do you guys feel that this is an acceptable option? At first, I responded that I would not do this and he insisted that this was the only way I could get a new frame shipped out after it was inspected.

Is this a crack that I should be concerned with or is it likely just a crack in the paint? Also, would it be wise to cut it and send it back to start the warranty process? My biggest worry is that I cut it, send it back and they say it is not covered under warranty after I have already destroyed the frame.


----------



## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

That looks like a crack between the two sides of the mold. Halves glued together around the other tubes. The crack will continue to spread along the seam. I do think that looks like a construction issue. 
As far as warranty claim, unfortunately sending the whole frame back, and being denied, then sending it back broken is much more expensive than buying a new frame. If you want warranty then cut it and live with it. If you can't then keep riding it. 

Since these guy live and die by feedback on forums like this. You did the right thing about sharing your experience here. Court of public humiliation or opinion. 
Share who you are dealing with and we will pay attention. 
Make a YouTube video of it. Lots of codes or tags, feedback on websites and make a stink of it. Offer to remove the stink if they send a new frame. Then cut and send the other piece. PayPal in the middle and sort of escrow situation 
You have a warranty that is good for a year or 2? Ride it some more and see how it progresses and then make a decision. Document it here. 

Good luck with your troubles. 
H


----------



## litespeedaddict (Feb 18, 2006)

I guarantee it is not just a crack in the paint. Sucks, but until they tell you "No", you don't have much choice but to do what they are asking. Besides, it isn't safe to ride anyway and totally worthless now, so what's the harm in cutting it up and sending it back? I would encourage you not to make a stink about it until you have an answer from them, as this place is littered with unreasonable retail consumers who expect the world to stop spinning until they get a new whatever overnighted to them. More often than not, it all works out and there was no reason to ever get upset in the first place. I am sure they will take care of it, and if I am right, do us all a favor and come back and let us know.


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback guys. I am leaning towards just biting the bullet and cutting the frame to send back that portion. 

I definitely believe in giving them a chance before I make a stink. Its one of the reasons that I have spent the last week emailing the seller back and forth before posting here.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Whats an "SN01 equivalent"?

at least ask for a guarantee of getting the piece back, because if all else fails you can glue it back in 

I agree with litespeedaddict and you, give them a chance first, then make a stink. I also probably wouldnt ride it anymore, cut it and get the process underway, Im pretty sure these guys dont want a stink to develop, especially on MTBR. Id be sure they keep an eye on forums, and if they dont well more fool them.

Good luck with it.


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Negotiator50 said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys. I am leaning towards just biting the bullet and cutting the frame to send back that portion.
> 
> I definitely believe in giving them a chance before I make a stink. Its one of the reasons that I have spent the last week emailing the seller back and forth before posting here.


Another option before you do anything is to take it to an independent carbon repair specialist. Get them to inspect it, and the cost/ likelihood of an effective repair. 
If you're prepared to ride a repaired frame (they're reported to be stronger than original YMMV) then send them the inspection report and ask if they're prepared to reimburse you for the repair once completed. This may be a faster turn around soloution and could work out cheaper in the long run for all parties concerned.

As you rightly say though give them a fair and reasonable chance (without threatening them with going public either ) to rectify the situation before calling them out in a forum.

Just another option you might consider. 

Fat Biker


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Fat Biker said:


> Another option before you do anything is to take it to an independent carbon repair specialist. Get them to inspect it, and the cost/ likelihood of an effective repair.
> If you're prepared to ride a repaired frame (they're reported to be stronger than original YMMV) then send them the inspection report and ask if they're prepared to reimburse you for the repair once completed. This may be a faster turn around soloution and could work out cheaper in the long run for all parties concerned.
> 
> As you rightly say though give them a fair and reasonable chance (without threatening them with going public either ) to rectify the situation before calling them out in a forum.
> ...


I tried that a few days ago and sent the pictures to a couple different carbon repair companies I found on the internet. The cost to repair was $350-$400 plus another $100-$200 to repaint plus I pay for the shipping back and forth (about $50 each way). With a brand new frame and shipping itself only costing a little more than $500, repairing the frame was cost prohibitive.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Negotiator50 said:


> I tried that a few days ago and sent the pictures to a couple different carbon repair companies I found on the internet. The cost to repair was $350-$400 plus another $100-$200 to repaint plus I pay for the shipping back and forth (about $50 each way). With a brand new frame and shipping itself only costing a little more than $500, repairing the frame was cost prohibitive.


Ouch ! I thought it would be a ton cheaper than that. 
I thought maybe $200 at THE most.

WhatdoIknow ???? 

Fat Biker


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## headset76 (Jul 15, 2015)

Here s my np-019 at 26 pounds, my bigfoot was 35!
maybe put a bluto and 4inch tire for summer!
Anyone know if cane creek 3mm crown race fit to any headset?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Fat Biker said:


> Ouch ! I thought it would be a ton cheaper than that.
> I thought maybe $200 at THE most.
> 
> WhatdoIknow ????
> ...


If you find someone to repair your frame for that much, then I would pass. I know one frame repairer very well and have even worked with him before. His repairs are worth every penny, but obviously these services aren't applicable to $500 frames!
Just sending out some info, I don't have a horse in the race.


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Negotiator50 said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys. I am leaning towards just biting the bullet and cutting the frame to send back that portion.
> 
> I definitely believe in giving them a chance before I make a stink. Its one of the reasons that I have spent the last week emailing the seller back and forth before posting here.


Out of curiosity (I have the same frame), what is your height, weight, frame size, and seat post insertion measurement? Looks like a mfg defect.


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## takisawa2 (Sep 21, 2012)

Hi all.
Anyone know if any of these frames will run 29+ also ?
Thanks.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Negotiator50 - I'm pretty sure that's just a layup seam and no issue at all. Also, carbon doesn't just crack and you go on riding like an aluminum/steel frame, it snaps. It takes a LOT of force to make carbon snap though.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Yours looks like a nice seam compared to this 
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/my-carbon-bar-cracked-833824.html


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

@Negotiator50 I'm a carbon fabricator, but please take the following with a grain of salt because I did not make your frame.

You *might* have a surface epoxy fracture rather than complete tearing of fibers.

Regarding repair companies, is one of the outfits you ran it by happen to be Cyclocarbon? His name is also Drew and we live in southeast Minnesota and ride fat bikes and work with carbon, but I swear we're two different people.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Drew Diller said:


> @Negotiator50 I'm a carbon fabricator, but please take the following with a grain of salt because I did not make your frame.
> 
> You *might* have a surface epoxy fracture rather than complete tearing of fibers.
> 
> Regarding repair companies, is one of the outfits you ran it by happen to be Cyclocarbon? His name is also Drew and we live in southeast Minnesota and ride fat bikes and work with carbon, but I swear we're two different people.


Neither company was Drew from Carboncycle. One was Calfee design and the other was Appleman Cycles. Both said that they thought it was structural in nature.

I went ahead and cut it as directed and am currently waiting on the seller to get back with me about the warranty.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Negotiator50 said:


> Neither company was Drew from Carboncycle. One was Calfee design and the other was Appleman Cycles. Both said that they thought it was structural in nature.
> 
> I went ahead and cut it as directed and am currently waiting on the seller to get back with me about the warranty.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Just as well. Thing with epoxy cracks on the surface, they'll become deeper structural issues before too long. Spidering, then deepening, then...

I hope they treat you well.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Built one of these for my sweetie. Turned out to be a bit off on the sizing for her, so we're selling the rolling chassis and moving on.

Link to pics and description here.

Thanks for looking.

MC


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## nicholaspe (Oct 29, 2009)

I believe this has been addressed somewhere in the forum, but I can't seem to find it. I have an SN01. I have some play in the headset. If I tighten it to the point of fixing the play, the steering is too tight. The headtube and fork appear to have very little space, as if they are touching. Do I need to bigger race? Is this a situation common with the Chinese frames? Am I risking damaging the frame if I put up with the tight steering for a bit? I tinker but am no guru. I've had a more knowledgeable buddy look it over and he's stumped. Hoping for a pearl from the group.


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## daniel harvey (Jul 23, 2007)

The surprise for me with my Chinese frame was that the race was integrated into the fork. I couldn't figure out why my Cane Creek race wouldn't seat, then with the help of someone smarter than me, saw that I didn't need the race at all. Probably not what's up for you, but thought I'd mention it.


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

You might need some very thin spacers between the top cap and the headset wedge. Often times the cap can drag on the upper headtube cup


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

SN01 V2.0

Put some new graphics on her tonight and some 45Nrth Beist tires. Love this bike!


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

How wide are those rims? How close does the rear tire fit? I'm thinking of going the same route (same tires and frame), but with the Nextie 90mm rims.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Racing on the FM190. 1st place in the fat division! Now its time for Bud and Lou.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

compengr said:


> How wide are those rims? How close does the rear tire fit? I'm thinking of going the same route (same tires and frame), but with the Nextie 90mm rims.


They are the carbon 90's. Dunder fit fine. Took it out on some muddy ATV trails this evening, I love these tires.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Got bud and lou mounted tubeless. They are massive. No problem with clearance at all.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2015)

...


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

That "looks" like the same frame as the SN01. But I only payed $420 for my frame/fork direct from ICAN.

Have you built from the frame up before, or just "set up" like you said? It really takes some adapting and need to have all the right tools. I had a lot and still needed to buy a raceface BB tool as well as the cinch tool to connect the chainring to the crank. Then spacers were a BEEOTCH to figure out. They weren't included in the kit, maybe they are now but I doubt it, I just built mine in March. I had to contact Race Face and have them send me the correct ones 2 times.

Not sure on the 4.8 Jumbo Jims in the rear. I had a Vee Bulldozer 4.7 that was close and now just recently added 45Nrth Dunderbeist 4.6 in back which is also close, but fits perfect. 

The stock headset lower is fine, upper had some play. I ordered a Cane Creek 40 headset upper.

Edit: Jumbo Jims fit in back, I just did a search in this thread.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Thats too many ques for me, but:
I have the SN01 and have cartwheeled down a hill (3x somersaulted end over end) plus one or two other 'falls', and it has held up well. I have the carbon fork from ICAN and the 90mm wheelset as well.

I used the ICAN headset, and now that l set it properly its good.

I also got the ICAN BB and although its heavy, its going well, but l have cleaned and regreased the bearings twice in 6 months, but l ride a lot in the wet...

If you go ICAN, l wouldnt go with the seat/stem/handlebar/etc set, most of it lve slowly replaced due to flex.

I believe JJ are 'tight', but l have never seen them fitted, l have the Chaoyangs at 4.9 and they are very 'tight', ie due to mud/crap lve scraped yhe frame inside the chainstays, l also have the Ground Controls at 4.6, and the are a way better tyre, but more expensive.

otherwise its bloody awesome



either way, just do it and get out and enjoy it.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2015)

...


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

K, you are good to go then  Some peoples definition of "set up" a bike are putting air in the fork and grips on 

Did you have a race face BB tool for that crankset on your nomad as well? I would guess you have all the tools then.

I could let you know spacer setup. Raceface was super cool about sending them out. Honestly that was the most tricky part for me was the spacer setup and figuring out that pre-load tightener ring thing that raceface has. I've always had SRAM cranks before so that was new to me. Headsets were super simple drop-in. Internal routed cable was a first for me as well and I did it the hard way unfortunately. But now I know better.

This was all I needed for the Race Face BB... https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=65268


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2015)

...


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

The BB sleeve will fit a 120 or a 100, they are the same for both, but on a 100 you just don't need the spacers that a 120 does. For some reason my emails from Race Face are no where to be found in my inbox and it's really making me mad, so I'll have to count when I get home. The spacers that come with the 190 100 BB aren't complete.

Edit: Wait, it might be the other way around. The 100mm BB is narrower, so it needs more spacers to get out to the correct width, where the 120 needs less spacers since it is already a wider BB. That sounds right.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2015)

...


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

That is on a 100mm bb house, on 120 mm bb house i think is to much.

Sorry read wrong in your post...


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Henrik83 said:


> A good nights sleep and here is what I've learned..
> 
> Race Face Cinch OLD 190 cranks with BSA 100mm use a 11.5mm spindle shim on each side according to this, http://raceface.com/comp/pdf/FatBike-CrankSetup-Chainline.pdf
> 
> Swap the 11.5mm's for 1.5mm's, and use that shell from Paragon & and it will work/become BSA 120mm?! The BB Cup spacers remain the same as in the .pdf..


I tried to go by that too and it's not correct. Sorry haven't got out to check my spacers yet. You can email race face direct too, they are good at getting back to you.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

duggus said:


> I tried to go by that too and it's not correct. Sorry haven't got out to check my spacers yet. You can email race face direct too, they are good at getting back to you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


I got this off a local thread on a SN01 with a 120mm bb:

Im using a RF Turbine Cinch w/ 30t direct mount ring. Normal bb spacers (2x2.5mm on ds and 1x 2.5mm on nds) w/ one 2.5mm spacer on either side of the spindle.

So it looks like regular spacers between bb cups and frame and one additional 2.5mm spacer between cup and each crank arm.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2015)

...


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## Qtep (May 3, 2012)

Finally took out my tensioner.. 33x21


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Henrik83 said:


> Duggus: I've found this post from you, http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/chinese-carbon-fatty-889515-100.html#post11801762
> 
> Isn't this what I described earlier? Swap the 11.5mm's for 1.5mm's and you're good to go, as long as you set up the BB spacers 2 (DS) + 1 (NDS)? Leave thae plastic sleeve out..
> 
> ...


This is correct and right from Race Face. Thanks for finding that.

The 2.5 spacers should be bottom bracket spacers. The two 1.5's are on the spindle. Mine set up perfect once they sent me the 1.5 spindle spacers... and yes for a 30mm spindle.


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## Rob Bandur (Jul 2, 2015)

I finally finished building mine and my son`s bike.
I was delighted how smoothly the cable routing went.
One issue i had was with the through axle on the fork , there is play when fully tightened .














Converted to 10x2.


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## Rango (Nov 10, 2014)

*SN03 clearance with XX1 and a 32t chainring*

I'm using two 2mm spacers on the drive side and one 2mm and one 1.5mm on the non-drive side. these are 170mm cranks

chainring clearance








crank clearance


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Rango said:


> I'm using two 2mm spacers on the drive side and one 2mm and one 1.5mm on the non-drive side. these are 170mm cranks
> 
> chainring clearance
> View attachment 1012439
> ...


It's that enough clearance for the cranks ?


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## Rango (Nov 10, 2014)

Lars_D said:


> It's that enough clearance for the cranks ?


nope, when I raced in super muddy, wet conditions the chainstay ended up scratched/damaged from buildup on the frame.

edit: yes they actually clear by a 2-3mm (as seen in the photo). But when it gets nasty out and the muck starts building up, it's like sandpaper on the frame and back of the crank.


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

My Xiamen IP-010 is still holding up after one year of abuse. 
This is from a 3 day solo bike packing trip at Hardangervidda (Norway). This vast mountain plateau is one of Europe's largest.


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm thinking about taking the plunge but had a few questions. Are there any frames that have similar geo to a Mukluk? I'm thinking about building one of these for bikepacking and long gravel rides. A search didn't reveal much information. 

Thanks


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

This is the longest thread I think I have ever read on the internet...

Pulled the trigger on a 19.5" FM190 197 axle, 150mm axle fork, and 100 mm carbon wheels. Frame has shipped, wheels have not as of yet.

I think that I have the build mostly figured out thanks to the very excellent posts of those who have built before me. Kudos to the guinea pigs!

Going to go with a 28t DM 170mm Turbine Cinch and Sram GX 1 x 11. Think I may be the first to actually try that combo.

Still working on brakes. Decided on SRAM due to the fluid used, good luck with them in the past, and matchmaker compatibility.

Think I have settled on the DB5 due to cost, but did not see a stellar review of them on a Beargrease Carbon 1 review. Many fatbikes seem to have DB3, so hopefully that review was an anomaly.

Looking at the Guide RS as well, but those are over double the price. Overkill? It seems to me that braking performance in cold and snow would be more limited by tires and ground than the brakes themselves.

Will be riding in Saskatchewan winter, so cold is guaranteed.

-Nate


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

I have a pointer for these carbon frames with thru-axles (I just figured this out last night). I've been having a creak under pedaling pressure. Took crank apart, cleaned, lightly lubed. It was still there. I decided I should maybe take the BB out and lube that some more or try some plumbers teflon tape.

Before I did that I had the rear wheel off to put some new brake pads in. I decided for the heck of it to put a little layer of lube around the inside of the axle dropouts. POOF... all better. No more creaking. Bikes  It always seems the noise is coming from the BB but it is usually something else.


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## G.R. (Feb 23, 2014)

Complete newbie to fatties here. What weight do you guys end up with going chinese carbon frames with stiff forks and 1x setup? How much weight separates a cheap alu wheel vs expensive carbon wheels? As far as I can see even the chinese wheels cost as much as a complete wheel set.

There's a lot of information in this thread, but its hard to collect it all into a single "recipe" for a decent FB, as time goes by the are are new products and everything changes. Anyone care to give a very short guide on the do's and dont's and maybe examples of products to choose?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

I've read all this forum from front to back to front and sideways but I can't recall ever seeing a vast amount of info on this frame (Other than from L*M**e) it seems. I may be wrong of course .

Anyone got any info on where I could get it cheaper , if at all ? It seems like $150 more expensive than other similar open mold frames .

Warning AliExpress link

TIA

Fat Biker


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Does anyone have any experience running a Dillinger 5 on an SN01 or the CS-018? Just curious what the clearance is like for some winter fun. They both say max 4.8" tire, so is there a chinese carbon fatty I should look at?


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## froggert (Aug 24, 2015)

G.R. said:


> Complete newbie to fatties here. What weight do you guys end up with going chinese carbon frames with stiff forks and 1x setup?


My 18" Ican SN01 is just under 24 lbs with carbon fork.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

G.R. said:


> Complete newbie to fatties here. What weight do you guys end up with going chinese carbon frames with stiff forks and 1x setup? How much weight separates a cheap alu wheel vs expensive carbon wheels? As far as I can see even the chinese wheels cost as much as a complete wheel set.
> 
> There's a lot of information in this thread, but its hard to collect it all into a single "recipe" for a decent FB, as time goes by the are are new products and everything changes. Anyone care to give a very short guide on the do's and dont's and maybe examples of products to choose?


Here is my complete build. On my very accurate scale and comfortable (but not lightweight) WTB Pure V saddle, mine came in at 26.5 which is 10 pounds lighter than the moonlander I came from. Not sure about the guy above who got under 24, must have been all carbon parts or inaccurate scale.


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## froggert (Aug 24, 2015)

duggus said:


> Not sure about the guy above who got under 24, must have been all carbon parts or inaccurate scale.


Carbon forks, cranks, wheels, bars and seatpost. Watched weight on the other parts selected. We used the shop's scale, so I can't vouch for its accuracy.

This is the only pic I have available.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Mine is 17.22 lbs or 7.81kg


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

http://forums.mtbr.com/asset.php?fid=968133&uid=768668&d=1442423280


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

mortenste said:


> Mine is 17.22 lbs or 7.81kg


Haha I doubt it, hope you are kidding 

907 just pulled close to the record at interbike with 19 pounds.
(credit: photo from fat-bike.com)








Otherwise, the record is 18.7... https://fairwheelbikes.com/c/worlds-lightest-fat-bike-18-7-pounds

But I've been wrong before :thumbsup:

Edit: I see your photo. I thought you were talking with the china-direct wheelset. Maybe you have the lightest? Get that entered somewhere.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

I am not kidding


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

froggert said:


> Carbon forks, cranks, wheels, bars and seatpost. Watched weight on the other parts selected. We used the shop's scale, so I can't vouch for its accuracy.
> 
> This is the only pic I have available.
> 
> View attachment 1015893


Nice build! Crazy to realize I could go that much lighter but I already feel like 26 lbs is nothing. I like my somewhat burlier parts and padded saddle too. You guys and your "road" saddles  LOL.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Build list on the speedercycling fb-02 frame and fork

Tune speedneedle seat
,tune handlebar,
extralite stem
,newultimate seatpost
,formula r1r brakes
,nextie 65 mm rims build on tune hubs
,xx1 derauiller and shifter
,next sl crank with 34 tooth
,xx1 cassett,
juggernaut pro tires,
ashima rotors .
Wellgo wr1 pedals will be changed


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Wow, interesting. I had never heard of Tune but looks to be a top-notch and spendy brand. Nice build and sorry for the questioning


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## G.R. (Feb 23, 2014)

Wow, lighter than my HT!

Anyways, I think I would be happy around 12kg for a fatty.



duggus said:


> Here is my complete build. On my very accurate scale and comfortable (but not lightweight) WTB Pure V saddle, mine came in at 26.5 which is 10 pounds lighter than the moonlander I came from. Not sure about the guy above who got under 24, must have been all carbon parts or inaccurate scale.
> 
> View attachment 1015876


Thanks, excellent post! Couldn't ask for more.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Some of you might find this humorous. I just did this for the heck of it to entertain myself.

I had a couple people ask me "are those HED carbon rims?"

So I decided to copy the logo, but now instead they are DUH rims. This should help confuse them even more :devil:









What actual HED rims look like:


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## RobClyde (Apr 3, 2012)

Hey Everyone, I need some advice. I recently picked up a ICAN SN01 frame and had my LBS put it all together. Everything was great except there is a small gap in the bottom headset and fork (see pic). My LBS says that it isn't a big deal (and they couldn't get it flush) and they have seen other carbon frames with the same issue. I'm using the recommended Cane Creek 40 headset (41/52).

I don't really like how it looks and I'm seeking advice on any solutions and if you would be worried running it like it is.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

No, what are they talking about? It needs to be flush or there is no way to preload the bearings. Doesn't it wiggle badly when you hold the front brake and rock the bike? Maybe they want it to fail since you didn't buy a bike from them? Geez, any bike shop should know this isn't correct.

FYI that isn't the bottom headset, that is the top cap. I'd get some tools, read some books or youtube videos and learn how to assemble yourself. Building a bike like this you should be able to do it yourself. Bike shops don't exactly like people buying bikes direct from china and then asking them to put it together for you. :thumbsup:


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

RobClyde said:


> Hey Everyone, I need some advice. I recently picked up a ICAN SN01 frame and had my LBS put it all together. Everything was great except there is a small gap in the bottom headset and fork (see pic). My LBS says that it isn't a big deal (and they couldn't get it flush) and they have seen other carbon frames with the same issue. I'm using the recommended Cane Creek 40 headset (41/52).
> 
> I don't really like how it looks and I'm seeking advice on any solutions and if you would be worried running it like it is.
> 
> View attachment 1016321


Yes, I would ride it, no problem.

You can get other cone spacers with deeper depth. The one that comes with supplier headset is deep, comes with a spacer to ensure it doesn't rub the frame.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

duggus said:


> No, what are they talking about? It needs to be flush or there is no way to preload the bearings. Doesn't it wiggle badly when you hold the front brake and rock the bike? Maybe they want it to fail since you didn't buy a bike from them? Geez, any bike shop should know this isn't correct.
> 
> FYI that isn't the bottom headset, that is the top cap. I'd get some tools, read some books or youtube videos and learn how to assemble yourself. Building a bike like this you should be able to do it yourself. Bike shops don't exactly like people buying bikes direct from china and then asking them to put it together for you.


This is incorrect. I have a similar space but mine is smaller than the one in the picture. I have the headset that came with the frame. The spacer underneath it is raising it. You could try a smaller one.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Yes it is, your spacers push down on the top cap. I forget though that yes, you can still preload because it presses on the center under the cap. But see that blue seal there? They put a seal there so you don't get water or other crap inside. A headset top cover should be flush with the top tube.

Here is a previous post, and a picture of how it should correctly look: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/x-post-tooltime-forum-knocking-headset-carbon-steerer-703570.html


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

duggus said:


> Yes it is, your spacers push down on the top cap. I forget though that yes, you can still preload because it presses on the center under the cap. But see that blue seal there? They put a seal there so you don't get water or other crap inside. A headset top cover should be flush with the top tube.
> 
> Here is a previous post, and a picture of how it should correctly look: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/x-post-tooltime-forum-knocking-headset-carbon-steerer-703570.html
> 
> View attachment 1016374


Yeah. Mine looks like that. I was referring to that space where u can see the blue ring. We are on the same page. My mistake.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Negotiator50 said:


> Yeah. Mine looks like that. I was referring to that space where u can see the blue ring. We are on the same page. My mistake.


Dang internet miscommunication  Yeah same page.

Thats kind of the "trademark look" of the cane creek headsets is that blue seal. The OPs picture above though looks like it has 3x as much space as should be there... it was that gap between the blue seal and frame that I should have clarified.


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

I have a carbon frame that has a slight gap between the headtube and cap but not that large. If the headset isnt loose and you can preload the bearings then I would not be to worried about it. Its more cosmetic then anything.

So I ordered my carbon fat bike a few days ago. Very excited to build it up, I have and still am riding fat bikes non stop since I bought my 1st! Going from steel frame to carbon is going to be awesome. I got to demo the beargrease a while back in the winter and loved it. 

17.5 UD Matt Carbon Frame / Fork
720mm Carbon Bars
90mm Carbon Stem
Carbon Spacer Kit
400mm Carbon Post
Carbon Wheelset 32h W/Chosen Hubs
Elixer 5 Brakes
Sram X7 Type 2 Clutch RD
Sram X5 Rear Shifter (for now)
Sram 11-36 Cassette (Maybe a 40T One-Up kit for winter)
30T NW Ring
Surly Nate(main once shipped) or Fat B-Nimble Tires(Who ever gets delivered 1st)
Lock-on grips
Exustar SPD Pedals
Nothing Special 175 Crankset (100mm BSA Shell)


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

RobClyde said:


> Everything was great except there is a small gap in the bottom headset


This has been discussed a few times in this thread, l know because l bought it up too.

Its normal, l have an o-ring around mine, figured it would help keep water out. It all look different now as lve changed bars and stem, but you can see the o-ring.

I suppose it helps........


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Any third party manufacturers of hangers for these frames? I have the SN01 frame and have bent two hangers on some really minor falls. I'm looking for something stronger.

Here is what the hanger looks like:



















Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Negotiator 50, what happened with your Frame warranty claim?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Shelterock said:


> Negotiator 50, what happened with your Frame warranty claim?


It took forever but they finally came through and sent me a replacement frame, which I am happy about. Built it up last week and have been riding it since then.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Gotta ask again just in case anybody can help;

What are the widest tires anybody has put on a chinese carbon fatty?

I know it would probably depend on the rim to some extent. Is Bud/Lou 4.8 the widest?


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Could anyone with a FM190 do me a big favor and measure the width of the down tube. Im going to be making some DIY frame protectors and just wondering what size I should go with. I am thinking 4inch would be best and i can cut it down if needed.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

ian0789 said:


> Could anyone with a FM190 do me a big favor and measure the width of the down tube. Im going to be making some DIY frame protectors and just wondering what size I should go with. I am thinking 4inch would be best and i can cut it down if needed.


I got ~2.5" on the underside.


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

msedbaue said:


> I got ~2.5" on the underside.


Awesome! Thanks for checking! Do you think a 3 inch wide tape would cover the down tube and go a tad up the side to fully cover it? Thats kind of what Im looking to do. Want it to creep into a bit around the bottom of the down tube for some extra protection.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

ian0789 said:


> Awesome! Thanks for checking! Do you think a 3 inch wide tape would cover the down tube and go a tad up the side to fully cover it? Thats kind of what Im looking to do. Want it to creep into a bit around the bottom of the down tube for some extra protection.


Yeah, I believe that would work fine!


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## froggert (Aug 24, 2015)

SJDude said:


> What are the widest tires anybody has put on a chinese carbon fatty?
> 
> I know it would probably depend on the rim to some extent. Is Bud/Lou 4.8 the widest?


I don't know that it's the widest, but I have Surly Knard 4.8's on my SN01.


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

froggert said:


> I don't know that it's the widest, but I have Surly Knard 4.8's on my SN01.


Im running Bud/Lou tubeless on 80mm wheels on an FM190. They fit well. There is probably someone out there with tubeless 100mm wheels. They would be slightly wider.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Anyone with Bud/Lou on SN01 on 65mm rims? I'm pretty confident it will fit, but just want to verify before I order them for winter use. 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Well shot some tells between my seller and looks like my stuff should be shipping out this week! I got most of my small parts I needed in the mail, just waiting on my helicopter tape(DIY frame savers), Nates and my 30T Narrow Wide! 

Im up to page 104 in this thread and loving it. Getting super excited about building this bike project up. Been mtbing and riding fat bikes for some time but this will be my 1st carbon mtb. I ride carbon on the road but have been on the fence about carbon in the trails. I figure if I trust a full carbon road bike why not a trail bike


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Frame and fork arrived this morning. The only thing to note is my seat tube bottle cage mounts are a little crooked, and the layup on the inside of the head tube is pretty thin. Only time will tell how thin is too thin, I guess. 
Otherwise, it looks decent. I anticipate some light sanding on the brake mounts to get everything to line up, but I feel like that's a gimme.


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

Shipping times were insane. Frame shipped separately from the wheelset, but I had both six days from being shipped.

Went with DB5s as they were at a pretty good price.

Now, I think my budget is shot, but what is the consensus on the Bluto? Looking back, I see a 120mm on an FM190. Is that the most common size going on an a large FM190? Anybody have the 120 and wish they went with the 100mm Bluto instead?

Waiting for a few more things to arrive - the brakes from CRC and a great deal on Turbine Cinch from Amazon. Perhaps I need to ride it with the carbon fork for a bit to decide what Bluto to look into.

-Nate



Flawless Cowboy said:


> Pulled the trigger on a 19.5" FM190 197 axle, 150mm axle fork, and 100 mm carbon wheels. Frame has shipped, wheels have not as of yet.
> 
> -Nate


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## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

Hi Nate
I am Getting ready to order a FM-190.
May I ask what supplier you order from and the cost of shipping and the frame cost?

Did it come with the silver chain stay protector, near the front chain ring?

Hope your build goes well!

Gary


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

Yes, it came with the silver protector. I have to put it on yet.

Here is from the invoice:

FM190 19.5" 100mm BSA in UD matt finish with rear 12*197mm rear spacing, compatible for hydraulic brake lines internally
$379.00

headset for FM190 $14.00

rear 197mm thru axle $10.00

SP011 seatpost in UD matt finish $35.00

FO190 15*150mm carbon fork in UD matt finish, including front 150mm axle $116.00

100mm wide carbon fat rims in UD matt finish with Chosen hubs (11S Sram XX1 free body) and CN spokes, red hubs and nipples, black spokes
$602.00

postage for frameset to Canada by EMS $90.00

8 postage for wheelset to Canada by EMS $90.00

Total $1,336.00

4.2% extra fee for Paypal $57

Amount $1,393.00 USD

That is all in American buckeroos. I am in Canada, and the conversion rate made me weep, but I am still happy with what I will have when all is said in done. I will have a little more than a Farley 7 into it, but with all the components that I want and carbon to boot. I'll see about posting a screenshot of the spreadsheet once it gets finished.

The large frame shipped within hours of paying the invoice and the wheelset shipped later as they were out of 100mm rims. I spoke to Melody from dengfubikes.com and, given the time zone differential, was impressed with the response times. 22 E-mails in total.

Brakes arrived today! White DB5s. Just need the crankset which has an estimated ship date of mid to late October.

-Nate



Big Foot said:


> Hi Nate
> I am Getting ready to order a FM-190.
> May I ask what supplier you order from and the cost of shipping and the frame cost?
> 
> ...


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## aziator (Oct 16, 2012)

Are you waiting on Race Face Next Cranks? Been waiting for ever a month now...


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

aziator said:


> Are you waiting on Race Face Next Cranks? Been waiting for ever a month now...


Those are back ordered?? Balls, that's what I was gonna grab for this build. The sram xx1 seems readily available, but I like the next sl's that are on my 650.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm having a bike built up and can't get hold of Raceface Next SL cranks. I already have a set and like them and want to be able to buy a chainring that I could use on both bikes.


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

I am waiting on the Race Face Turbine Cinch through Amazon.ca. Much of the Race Face stuff is "Usually ships in 1-2 months" on Amazon.ca. Looking online, it seems that the Race Face cranks were available and in stock at other places, but not at as nice of a price.

Really second guessing my choice of cranks. Maybe get the Next Sl cranks for the fatbike, and use the Turbine Cinch to eventually convert my carbon Epic to a 1x11...

I assume the spindles are interchangeable between Turbine Cinch and Next SL? The Turbine is coming with the 100 mm spindle and I assume the Next SL come with a narrower spindle.


-Nate


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I think that the way the Cinch system works is the non-drive side crank arm has the spindle permanently attached. I think all of Raceface cranks work that way. So for a certain width of bottom bracket once you buy a crankset you can't move that crankset to a bike with a different bottom bracket width. The Cinch system means that there isn't a spider built into the drive side crank, you can attach the spider you need or a spiderless chainring. 

Most of their cranks have a fat bike version. I have a Next SL on my Mukluk.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Welnic said:


> I think that the way the Cinch system works is the non-drive side crank arm has the spindle permanently attached. I think all of Raceface cranks work that way. So for a certain width of bottom bracket once you buy a crankset you can't move that crankset to a bike with a different bottom bracket width. The Cinch system means that there isn't a spider built into the drive side crank, you can attach the spider you need or a spiderless chainring.
> 
> Most of their cranks have a fat bike version. I have a Next SL on my Mukluk.


The reason for the cinch system is that you can change spindle for diffrent width...


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

So you can change the spindles to get a different width. That definitely makes it a very versatile system.


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## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

*Thanks*



Flawless Cowboy said:


> Yes, it came with the silver protector. I have to put it on yet.
> 
> Here is from the invoice:
> 
> ...


Thanks


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Has anyone pulled one of the rear wheel hubs apart?
Specifically the ICAN hub, l have some play in the freehub, and lm on holidays for another week (at least) with this bike, want to know whats involved in pulling it apart.

I currently have 2 options:
..pull it apart hoping l have the tools to fix it, which l doubt l do
..ride it anyway and see what happens, although l dont think this will have a good outcome

Im riding trails as well as beach while lm here.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

I had the same play. I found that it was the caps coming loose. I found a pair of 17 auto wrenches and tightened them down pretty hard. It has been good since then. I also regularly remove the caps and take the freewheel off to check the inside of the hub. They are cheap hubs and I am burning through the freehubs. I already purchased a second freehub and I am in the process of ordering another one. I wish I could find a third party freehub that would fit.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

The first thing to do is to check that the cassette lockring is tight, so you can determine where the play is. If the lockring is loose, that's likely your problem. Even if the lockring is tight, check that the cogs are not loose on the freehub body. That can happen with Shimano cassettes if the spacer that goes behind the cassette is left out.

If you determine that the problem is in the hub, you generally only need 2, 5mm allen wrenches inserted into the end caps to remove the axle and freehub. If you have a cassette tool and a chain whip, removing the cassette first will make dealing with the hub much easier. 

Whether you'll be able to do anything to correct the problem once you have the hub apart is another question entirely; it depends on the nature of the excess play. If it's end play, it's likely that a shim needs to be added-to or removed-from the axle, depending on the hub design. If the freehub body is wobbling, it likely means that either a bearing has failed or it's loose in the hub or freehub. 

The former is easier to fix and with most hubs, it's not too difficult to drive/press out the old bearing and press/tap a new one into place, but I can't be any more specific than that.

If a bearing is a loose fit in the hub shell or freehub, it's probably a manufacturing defect. It may be possible to shim it or use one of the Locktite bearing mount compounds to secure the bearing, but if the hub is under warranty, contact the dealer or manufacturer before you start messing with it.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

mmmmmm....its not the cassette as l already had that off, l know its in the freehub, but l dont have the tools for that...unfortunately.
Im thinking l need the two 17mm wrenches, which of course are only ~800kms away 

so lm up sh!t creek without a paddle, think lm gonna just ride it (carefully...) while l can and try to fix it when we get home.....will keep you updated, worst comes to worst its a new hub & spokes l spose.


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Well bike is just about finished! I have to mount up the tires and put my One 40T ring on and its good to go. I did one into one issue yesterday that Im not sure what to do on. I was adjusting the bars and got this rather nasty creaking sound coming from the stem clamping area. I was using my 5nm ritchey torque key so I know I was going ape sh*t on the bolts. It sounded like bolt making the creaking as it happened from that spot while turning the torque key. I cant imagine that a ritchey key could have damaged the bars. I took them off to inspect them and no sign of marks or cracks so I put them back on and AGAIN got the sound. I noticed the bolt wasnt really going in smooth so I took the face plate off and chased the stem threads and now they go in nice and clean with no resistance. I torqued the bars to 4.5nm and no more creaking sounds but now Im unsure if I wanna use them or bin them.

There is no marks or cracks and I tapped around on the bars and inside of the stem to make sure I didnt find any dead spots. Everything looks perfectly brand new but its hard to say what is under the bars. I can say that there is about a 98% chance that it was just the bolt catching the threads like crap and I DIDNT use any grease on the bolts as well. So part of me thinks of there is no visible lines, marks, imprints or cracks then they should be ok.... but the other part of me thinks what if it snaps >_<

Other then that the build went super smooth and everything is perfect. Bike came out wonderful, will post up some pictures once I finish mounting up the tires.


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## ttakata73 (Feb 9, 2012)

Has anyone had experience with the FM366 frame?
Fat Carbon Bike Frame of Internal Cable Routing in 15.5" 17.5" 19" 20.5" HT-FM366 images - carbonfiberbike
I can't find any more specs on the FM366 but it looks identical to the Java fatbike which comes with 80mm rims.




__ https://www.facebook.com/fatbikemonster/posts/1565449360383802



I am curious if this frame can take 5" tires on 100mm rims?


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## ttakata73 (Feb 9, 2012)

Anyone have expreience with the FM366 which looks identical to the Java fatbike?

Fat Carbon Bike Frame of Internal Cable Routing in 15.5? 17.5? 19? 20.5? HT-FM366 images - carbonfiberbike









I am wondering if it can take 5" tires with 100mm rims.


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Well ran into another problem while mounting up the tires I finished both off and was putting on the brake rotor when I caught a glimpse of what looked like a white mark on the rim and not the matt finish. So I got out my trusty coin and tapped on it. Dink, dink, thud.... Freaking rim has a dead spot in the front carbon rim.... Its soft, flexes, nad has a change in sound. Sent an email to the seller, This is one of those reason why I always go back and forth in buying stuff over seas. Not because I dont trust it but when you have an issue its going to be a royal pain in the butt.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

cmg71 said:


> mmmmmm....its not the cassette as l already had that off, l know its in the freehub, but l dont have the tools for that...unfortunately. Im thinking l need the two 17mm wrenches, which of course are only ~800kms away


 Why not go to a local shop and ask them to tighten it for you?


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

I have the dillinger 5 on Ican's 65 mm rims on SN01.  No problem. Lots of room left.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> Why not go to a local shop and ask them to tighten it for you?


Thats what l'll try today, it appears the shop is ~60kms away, suppose the drive will give me time to work on my ltalian........


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Good news is a new front wheel was sent out today! Going to be another week before I get it in the trails but at least I dont have a headache to deal with or worrying about whats going to happen to my rim.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

ian0789 said:


> Good news is a new front wheel was sent out today! Going to be another week before I get it in the trails but at least I dont have a headache to deal with or worrying about whats going to happen to my rim.


Are they asking you to ship the old one back too?


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Chippertheripper said:


> Are they asking you to ship the old one back too?


She asked if shipping was appropriate if I could send it back but if it cost to much I might see if I can just cut the section off rge rim and send it snail mail. She didn't seem to concerded about getting the old one back as it is not even been ridden but more to see if it was manufacturing defect. I doubt it was from impact as there is not even a scratch on it.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

ian0789 said:


> She asked if shipping was appropriate if I could send it back but if it cost to much I might see if I can just cut the section off rge rim and send it snail mail. She didn't seem to concerded about getting the old one back as it is not even been ridden but more to see if it was manufacturing defect. I doubt it was from impact as there is not even a scratch on it.


Sounds like great service. I had an issue with a frame from a different vendor. They made me cut the section and mail it back before they would agree to send a new one.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Negotiator50 said:


> Sounds like great service. I had an issue with a frame from a different vendor. They made me cut the section and mail it back before they would agree to send a new one.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Yeah I seen that while I was reading the thread and was worried I'd be set back a month or so but Rachel from Carbon-cycle (eBay seller) has been A+++ since day one. Very helpful and quick to answer any questions. I already got my tracking numberfor the wheel. Hopefully in the next week will be able to get this bike in the trails!


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> Why not go to a local shop and ask them to tighten it for you?





cmg71 said:


> Thats what l'll try today, it appears the shop is ~60kms away, suppose the drive will give me time to work on my ltalian........


So, my 90mm rims came with the six pawl hub, 4 of those pawls were 'stuck' down, therefore all the force when pedalling was on two pawls which happened to be next to each other, this in turn puts all the force on one side of the freehub bearing, which is of course not good. 
The bearing is on its way out, and the shop had none, but they cleaned it all up so all the pawls are again engaging and the freehub spins nicely again, now that the force is evenly spread out the play from the bearing is hardly noticeable, will see today how it goes 

All that cost me a total of 10 euros, reckon it cost more in petrol to drive to the shop.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

cmg71 said:


> So, my 90mm rims came with the six pawl hub, 4 of those pawls were 'stuck' down, therefore all the force when pedalling was on two pawls which happened to be next to each other, this in turn puts all the force on one side of the freehub bearing, which is of course not good.
> The bearing is on its way out, and the shop had none, but they cleaned it all up so all the pawls are again engaging and the freehub spins nicely again, now that the force is evenly spread out the play from the bearing is hardly noticeable, will see today how it goes
> 
> All that cost me a total of 10 euros, reckon it cost more in petrol to drive to the shop.


That sounds like a bargain! There's probably an O-ring between the freehub body and the hub shell. When you order the new bearing, get a new O-ring too, as it sounds like you're getting dirt into the hub. For lubing freehub pawls, I prefer either a heavy oil like Phil's, a light grease like Slick Honey or a synthetic grease like Super Lube. These all work well in a variety of temperatures and don't get gummy over time.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

30kms and 775 elevation metres and the hub did awesomely, no more self shifting which makes technical climbs easier.
So lm pretty stoked at the moment.

I will still need to disassemble and check everything when lm back home.

Good info Bynstrom, thanks


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)




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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

New wheel just left NY customs so hopefully Tuesday will have it and the bike ready to ride! Forgot Monday is a holiday  

Has anyone been able to fit a 4.7 snowshoe on the FM190 frame/fork? I have a set I picked up for a great price. Figured it would be a solid choice for some winter riding. Debating if Im going to put them on the carbon fatty or my lurch!


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

ian0789 said:


> New wheel just left NY customs so hopefully Tuesday will have it and the bike ready to ride! Forgot Monday is a holiday
> 
> Has anyone been able to fit a 4.7 snowshoe on the FM190 frame/fork? I have a set I picked up for a great price. Figured it would be a solid choice for some winter riding. Debating if Im going to put them on the carbon fatty or my lurch!


I would imagine that they should fit no problem - I have a Lou mounted on a 100mm rim that seems to fit great. I think the snowshoes are smaller than the Lou.

Sent from my Lenovo TAB S8-50F using Tapatalk


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Almost done, as soon as race face gets their buns together and ships the next sl's. Maiden voyage is tomorrow.


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Took her out for the break in run! Got my front wheel in today and had the day off so finished off the minor adjustments and went out to the trails. Only did a 12mile ride, spent alot of time tinkering little adjustments on the bike. Really gotta say I love the way it rides. I think its got a great Geo and very nimble! I dont like the bars I dropped them down all the way to just a 5mm spacer and the rise is still a bit to high for my liking. I have a set of race face 740's I might swap out but for now keep the carbon bars.

Gotta say I really dig the bike. Its 28lb as is and thats a nice drop in weight vs my steel fattys. The only thing that freaks me out a bit is running a full carbon bike. Sounds and creaks over log piles just make me cringe but then again things flex and sound travels big time in the carbon. Time will tell how its going to hold up but Im hopping to get my moneys worth out of it!

I need to chop off some of that steer tube. I just kept on dropping spacers. One thing I did notice is the headset did have some play in it and on hard braking in the front I hear a strange pinging sound from the headset so snugged it up and will test it out tomorrow. I'm extremely happy with the bike but I am still on the fence about a full carbon MTB, nothing bad to say about the build but last night my friend snapped his rear stay on a 9er carbon fiber SS. So things break and not just Chinese lol.


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

Sounds like the Next SLs should be soon. Cancelled the Turbines with Amazon and went with Next SLs from my LBS. The owner said that after talking to Race Face, the Next SLs should be landing in Vancouver later this week and shipped out from there. Word is that the entire shipment is pretty much spoken for - they could still be scarce for a while.

-Nate


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## aziator (Oct 16, 2012)

I found a set of Next SLs at Backcountry but they shipped from Competitive. I originally put them on order with my LBS back in mid Sept but the date slid to the end of November when I checked 10 days ago. Now to figure out this spacer thing...


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Yeah, qbp keeps sliding the date a little, currently 11/14 is the ship date.


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## aziator (Oct 16, 2012)

Love to support my LBS but I have been out of the country for 7 months, started buying parts for the fatty build in June. I want to be able to get home, build it and ride within a day or so. The delivery date on those cranks keeps sliding too much so I jumped on a set when I could.



Chippertheripper said:


> Yeah, qbp keeps sliding the date a little, currently 11/14 is the ship date.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

You don't have to justify anything to me, Holmes.


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

So got in a 2nd ride on the carbon fatty. Was riding it hard today and all is well! Seems like the bike is very well made and my fear of is exploding on me is slightly going away. Was way more aggressive today on it and loving it! I still wish I got a set of carbon flat bars due to the riser bars a bit higher then id like. No more wacky headset creaking / popping so headset just needed to be really snugged up.

I did notice the seatpost really needed to be torqued down for it not to slip I normally just use carbon paste and 4nm of torque but I am having to bring the bolt to 5nm via the ritchey torque key with a ton of carbon paste for it not to slip. Other wise all good with the build!


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

ian0789 said:


> I did notice the seatpost really needed to be torqued down for it not to slip I normally just use carbon paste and 4nm of torque but I am having to bring the bolt to 5nm via the ritchey torque key with a ton of carbon paste for it not to slip. Other wise all good with the build!


Ain't this the truth about the seatpost...

Dumbass story from three-ish weeks ago:

I had just received my carbon wheelset, and had mounted a Surly Lou tubeless onto the back. I decided to put the bike onto the work stand because hey, what's the point of having a stand if there isn't a bike in it. Now, I remembered hearing you shouldn't clamp carbon too hard, so I just hung it by the seatpost in the clamp. I do something similar with my carbon Epic, so it wasn't my first rodeo.

My glee from spinning the tire was tempered by an odd sound. Every time I spun the tire, there would be this sound that shouldn't be there. The harder I spun the wheel, the more the sound appeared. Naturally, the solution was to spin the wheel even harder.

Turns out I had neglected to tighten the seatpost collar enough. The mystery sound I heard? That was the seatpost sliding a tiny bit out of the frame every time I spun the wheel. Of course, being a little thick, I didn't notice this until the bike crashed to the floor. It wasn't far, so the front carbon rim that did not have tire mounted on it yet is fine (remember I said this when I come back with a story of a carbon wheel exploding in the future...), but the stem nicked the drill press or something on the way down, scratching the stem.

I haven't even ridden it yet as I am waiting on cranks and it has a bloody scratch. I don't mind nicks and scratches on my stuff, but I would like to put them there riding!









-Nate


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

ian0789 said:


> So got in a 2nd ride on the carbon fatty. Was riding it hard today and all is well! Seems like the bike is very well made and my fear of is exploding on me is slightly going away. Was way more aggressive today on it and loving it! I still wish I got a set of carbon flat bars due to the riser bars a bit higher then id like. No more wacky headset creaking / popping so headset just needed to be really snugged up.
> 
> I did notice the seatpost really needed to be torqued down for it not to slip I normally just use carbon paste and 4nm of torque but I am having to bring the bolt to 5nm via the ritchey torque key with a ton of carbon paste for it not to slip. Other wise all good with the build!


Don't forget to rub a layer of waterproof grease on the seat post/frame junction to prevent water from washing away the carbon paste. I known some guys who zip tie a piece of inner tube to help seal out water.


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Got a solid ride in today on the fatty! Really starting to love it! The seatpost clamp is still giving me a hard time, I had to snug it up on the start of the ride and checked it during the middle. I think it might be time to put some lock tight on the bolt to keep that mofo in place! Other wise all is good, the bike is handling very well, the carbon wheels are holding up nicely to lofting over stuff and ruff sections. No more strange sounds coming from the headset so far so good!

One thing I will say is the carbon stem and bars and turning out to be great. I have ridden other MTB's with wide carbon bars and they felt supper stiff. Well these chinese bars are on par! I went with 720's to avoid clipping them like I sometimes do on my 740's+. They are stiff out of the saddle while climbing or sprinting and the stem is stiff as well. I was worried it be a bit mushy but very impressed with how they feel on the trails.

Im still running the Fat B Nimbles on the bike but I might swap them out for my snowshoe 4.7's or H-billies 4.25's. The Fat B Nimbles are solid tires but I kind of wanna see how a wider tire sits on those carbon wheels!

I did have to add some helicopter tape on the head tube and fork to protect it from cable rub. After my last two rides I noticed it was already starting to make marks in the frame. Nothing major but if I didnt nib that in the butt now it would have starting eating away at the finish. I had a bunch of it left over from using it as my down tube protector. Gotta say well worth it, I have kicked up a larger stones that went flying into the DT and that tape helped to take the impact / not leave any marks.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Flawless Cowboy said:


> Ain't this the truth about the seatpost...
> 
> Dumbass story from three-ish weeks ago:
> 
> -Nate


Im sorry, but l had a good laugh at this, mainly because l do the same dumb **** as well


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## uk gearmuncher (Oct 16, 2015)

I'm considering getting a sn01 as my first fat bike but I'm still fuzzy on the 120mm Bb issue. What bottom bracket and cranks are people sourcing for it ?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

uk gearmuncher said:


> I'm considering getting a sn01 as my first fat bike but I'm still fuzzy on the 120mm Bb issue. What bottom bracket and cranks are people sourcing for it ?


Get the Raceface Turbine Cinch cranks for 190mm rear (or Next SL with 190 spindle if you want lighter cranks). Bottom bracket is Raceface BSA 30mm. You can get any size because you won't be using the sleeve anyways (none are long enough).

I have those cranks on my SN01 and they work great.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## uk gearmuncher (Oct 16, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> Get the Raceface Turbine Cinch cranks for 190mm rear (or Next SL with 190 spindle if you want lighter cranks). Bottom bracket is Raceface BSA 30mm. You can get any size because you won't be using the sleeve anyways (none are long enough).
> 
> I have those cranks on my SN01 and they work great.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Thanks, that's really helpful. Are there any good cheaper options ? (I'd be using a 1x10 single ring drivetrain).


----------



## uk gearmuncher (Oct 16, 2015)

One other question for someone, should I be considering the Bluto fork to improve performance for the SN01 ? I might do the odd race on it. Its standard XC stuff so nothing too knarly. Most guys I've seen running fat bikes are still running stock rigid forks.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

I don't really think a (suspension) fork is really necessary on a fatty at all. 
I'm 185ish, and with 6psi up front and 8 out back, she goes pretty much where I want her. You won't be able to descend like a downhill bike, but it's a small trade off for me. 
But as they say, different strokes...


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

uk gearmuncher said:


> One other question for someone, should I be considering the Bluto fork to improve performance for the SN01 ? I might do the odd race on it. Its standard XC stuff so nothing too knarly. Most guys I've seen running fat bikes are still running stock rigid forks.


My one fatty has a bluto with 120mm of travel and its so not needed. While I will say its fun as heck and lets me bomb down stuff at stupidly fast speeds and reckless it gives no more performance gains then a ridged fork. You will climb better with out a fork but go faster on the downs. But even then with a fat bike having such low PSI is all you really need. I have one with a fork and all my others are ridged / staying that way. Fork is also nice for when it gets icy from the hikers foot prints in the winter and even then not needed just nice to not feel like a jack hammer on some sections.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

I started with a rigid fatbike and rode it with all different tire pressures. It was fine in the snow. However when I rode it on single track in the summer, I couldn't stand the abuse it exerted on my body. 

I got rid of that bike and got a fatbike with bluto. Immediately notified the difference and loved riding it on single track and snow. I would never go back to rigid on snow or dirt. 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Can anyone here respond to this request for these chi-carbon fat frames?

1. 68-ish degree head angle
2. 430-445mm chainstays
3. 197mm rear thru axle

Looking for all these parameters in one frame if possible! Or something non-carbon even?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Can anyone here respond to this request for these chi-carbon fat frames?
> 
> 1. 68-ish degree head angle
> 2. 430-445mm chainstays
> ...


Ican SN01 fits the bill:

http://www.icanbikes.com/html/MTB/Fat bike/249.html#bk_desc_tab

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

Anyone know who makes the biggest frame at this point? 
I'm 6'6" and wonder if there's a frame out there that would fit the mark. 
The sn01 only goes to a 20".


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Check the fm190


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Pretty sure 21" is the biggest frame you'll find in Chinese carbon.
You may need to look at a name brand.


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## Joben (Jan 11, 2013)

Has anyone bought/Built one of these from Peter? looking for a build/ride report.


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

Joben said:


> View attachment 1023106
> 
> 
> Has anyone bought/Built one of these from Peter? looking for a build/ride report.


Frame is not out yet for delivery, only pre orders so far.


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## Rango (Nov 10, 2014)

Can someone recommend a frame that can handle 5" tires mounted on 90mm Nexties (150front and 190/197 rear), but still have clearance between the crank & chain stay for 1x11?

I have the ICAN SN03 and the XX1 drivetrain doesn't quite clear when the dirt builds up even a little (I even went with 170mm cranks & a Q168). I also have 4mm spacers on the drive side and 3.5 on the non-drive.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

Would a gxp spiderless chainring help. If the ring were flipped so it's offset moved the chain away from the tire


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

ian0789 said:


> only thing that freaks me out a bit is running a full carbon bike. Sounds and creaks over log piles just make me cringe but then again things flex and sound travels big time in the carbon.


Shouldn't be any creaking. Try plumbers Teflon tape on the bb threads. Also, apply a little park lube to the inside of the thru axle mounts on the frame, mine devolved a creak on peddling and I narrowed it down to that. As far as the headset, the free one they send has a junk top half. I kept the bottom and got a cane creek 40 top and all has been nice and tight.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Rango said:


> Can someone recommend a frame that can handle 5" tires mounted on 90mm Nexties (150front and 190/197 rear), but still have clearance between the crank & chain stay for 1x11?
> 
> I have the ICAN SN03 and the XX1 drivetrain doesn't quite clear when the dirt builds up even a little (I even went with 170mm cranks & a Q168). I also have 4mm spacers on the drive side and 3.5 on the non-drive.


This one: CS-N019 26er full carbon fat bike frame frame 150*15mm/190*10mm QR/197*12mm axle - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## Skiffer709 (Oct 26, 2015)

devans said:


> 120mm rides perfect on an 18inch CS-18 frame! short 50mm stem and 760mm wide bar means lots of control


How's the stand over height? I'm looking at the same setup and can't find any info. My last bike was a Salsa Mukluk but when I added of the Bluto it was to tight for my 30 inch inseam.


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

What's the best place to pick up a 21" FM190 these days? I've picked up parts from various China vendors but none of them carry the 190.


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## valexe (Nov 29, 2012)

I'm a happy owner of a SN-01 and I wonder if we can install a internal dropper post ? I don't remember if we can run a cable from the down tube to the seat tube...


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

valexe said:


> I'm a happy owner of a SN-01 and I wonder if we can install a internal dropper post ? I don't remember if we can run a cable from the down tube to the seat tube...


If you look back in this thread to ~March, l believe it has been done with a hydraulic dropper


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## Jukahia (Jul 8, 2015)

KenPsz said:


> Frame is not out yet for delivery, only pre orders so far.





Joben said:


> View attachment 1023106
> 
> 
> Has anyone bought/Built one of these from Peter? looking for a build/ride report.


Does anyone have idea of headset cup sizes for CS-001 fullsus. fat? I know it`s 1 1/8" & 1,5" fork, but what cane creek Head Set it takes ? 44&56 or what ? What diameter bores there normally is, in carbon speed frames... And is it fully integ.. or semi... Peter has given me the answer of tapered fork sizes now three times..


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Jukahia said:


> Does anyone have idea of headset cup sizes for CS-001 fullsus. fat? I know it`s 1 1/8" & 1,5" fork, but what cane creek Head Set it takes ? 44&56 or what ? What diameter bores there normally is, in carbon speed frames... And is it fully integ.. or semi... Peter has given me the answer of tapered fork sizes now three times..
> View attachment 1024938


I don't have any actual knowledge of this partucular frame but I can't see why it would be any different to any other Chinese frame. Most of them are is41/is56 its up to you how tall of a top cover you choose (from the Cane Creek site). Failing that if you ask Peter will send you the correct headset which you can take to any LBS to get measured to buy a better quality one. For the extra $10 when buying the frame it's hardly worth thinking about. Plus you'll have a spare to keep you rolling.

Fat Biker


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## Jukahia (Jul 8, 2015)

Yep, Peter delivered drawing.

It`s FSA No.42 integrated tapered 1-1/8'' - 1-1/2'' headset









Inner Diameters are; 
Upper 42 mm 
Low 52 mm 
INTEGRATED

I´m going to use 40ér Cane Creek; 
IS42/28,6 short
IS52/40

As I have the "same" 40ér cane creek in other fat, so I can fit the same bluto to that If I want..


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Some pictures of CS-010 frame and complete CS-010 bike

And some 80mm wheels and 100mm wheels were shipped to the US today.

first batch of CS-001 FS frames will be shipped out next week.

Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

[email protected]


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## Skiffer709 (Oct 26, 2015)

*Cs-010*

Did the frame require any additional spacers to accept the Bluto?



PeterXu said:


> Some pictures of CS-010 frame and complete CS-010 bike
> 
> And some 80mm wheels and 100mm wheels were shipped to the US today.
> 
> ...


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## Sac29 (Jul 21, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up. How's the saddle and seat post working out?


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

PeterXu said:


> Some pictures of CS-010 frame and complete CS-010 bike
> 
> And some 80mm wheels and 100mm wheels were shipped to the US today.
> 
> ...


Awesome!!!


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

I mentioned a long time earlier, that there are no drain holes in the SN01 frame, someone mentioned they had drilled one in, how'd it go?
any bad news?
did you go through the aluminium (bb) as well? (see pic)

Looking at the pic l took (before l cleaned it ), it would make more sense that the aluminium part be turned 180 degrees, allowing water to move away from the bb bearings. Thats why l ask about the hole in the aluminium as well. The water can basically just sit in the aluminium 'cup', and therefore the bearings.



I ask as l ride in wet and/or muddy conditions often, at the moment l clean the bb & bearings every ~500kms, and its always full of water/mud


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

cmg71 said:


> I mentioned a long time earlier, that there are no drain holes in the SN01 frame, someone mentioned they had drilled one in, how'd it go?
> any bad news?


I don't have one of these frames, but I wouldn't hesitate to drill a small drain hole in the bottom of the BB.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

If you're constantly getting stuff accumulating in the BB, you should seal the points of entry. Since carbon frames don't typically have vent holes, the most likely culprits are internal cable routing holes and possibly water leakage past the seatpost. A little silicone sealer on the cable routing holes will seal them, but still allow the cables to be removed without major effort. A liberal coating of grease or carbon paste between the post and frame should take care of any leakage there. If there are any unused mounting holes, such as for water bottle cages, make sure that they're plugged.

Once you've sealed the leak points, you should see a dramatic drop in the accumulation in the BB. If you still feel the need, you can drill a drain hole, but remember that it's a two-way street; it can also let water and such into the frame if the BB is submerged for any length of time.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Bnystrom said:


> If you still feel the need, you can drill a drain hole, but remember that it's a two-way street; it can also let water and such into the frame if the BB is submerged for any length of time.


If you are submerging your BB for any length of time you'll be servicing it anyways so who cares about water draining in or out of the shell?


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

Has anyone purchased a "complete" china carbon fatty? Like this one, based on FM-190 frame:

26er Carbon Fat Bike Frame Fork Wheel thru Axle 197 BSA Matt Tire 4 0" SRAM X7 | eBay

Or (also FM-190)
High end new hot sale 26er carbon fat with disc groupset, View fat bike frame, Baolijia Product Details from Shenzhen Baolijia Sports Equipment Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com

I like the FM-190 because of 150/197 hub spacing, relatively smaller q-factor and fitting Bud/Lou, but not crazy about chainstay length. Any other fatty that fits Lou/Bud/2XL Snowshoe in the rear, without doing crazy q-factor and shorter chainstay? Who has Lou in back of SN01?


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Having put a few hundred miles on the fm190, chainstay length is hardly an issue. Forgive my ignorance and laziness, but how much shorter is the other Chinese frame??


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

I'd sell my Motobecane Boris for this new bike. Boris's CS is 467, FM190 is 468. It's an area I've identified for improvement for my new fatty.

SN01's CS is 445. But can a Lou fit in the rear?


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

valexe said:


> I can confirm that a Lou on a 90mm rim (tubeless at 9 psi) goes in a SN01. It's a tight fit, but it's a fit !
> 
> View attachment 955044


Found my answer. And I had thought I read this whole thread!


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

It fits there, but it'll certainly rub when cornering and whatnot.


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## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

I'm looking around and it is hard to keep all the models straight and it seems like if one has a particular feature I'm looking for it doesn't have the other.

Can someone point me to a fat bike frame, 16 or 17" probably, that has 197/150 hub spacing and a relaxed head angle. about 68 degrees give or take. 69 is too steep and unacceptable for the type of riding intended. Seems like the ones with slack head angles all come with 135mm forks, but I suppose that a seller could swap a different fork in?


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

Just finished reading the entire thread. Most of my questions have been answered. 
I've ordered up a 21" FM190 frame with 85mm wheels. 
Do you guys mind taking a look at my build spec to make sure I didn't goof on any parts. 
The first pic in my shopping list from Jenson. 
They also list a complete XX1 fat bike build kit for a decent price but I thought I read somewhere that the XX1 cranks don't work well on the 197 rear? 
Any reason to go with the XX1 over my build kit? 
Thanks in advance. 









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Anyone found a 3rd party derailleur hanger that fits the Ican SN-01 frame or equivalent? The ones that are sold by Icann are absolute junk. I've bent two just by laying the bike over. 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Bunyan, According to Sram's website the xx1 crank is for 170 rear spacing bikes. The chainline is 66.5 mm which is too narrow for a 190 / 197 spaced bike. It did only mention 30 and 32 tooth rings and the package you posted showed a 28 tooth ring. Maybe that can be flipped , like Race Face cinch systems. I would check that out before I bought the xx1, assuming your frame is not a 170 that is.
I have a cinch 170 crank with a flipped 26 tooth ring on my Yampa, which has a 190 / 197 rear. The chainline is about 76 and it works perfectly. Good Luck


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

sryanak, thanks for the feedback. I thought I read that back in the thread somewhere about the XX1. 
I've seen it mentioned a few times where the tooth ring is flipped on the cinch. Does that mean the ring isn't flat and one can adjust the chain line? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Bunyan said:


> Does that mean the ring isn't flat and one can adjust the chain line?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are correct. The chain ring is not flat. If you have a 190ish rear end on your bike and a 190 appropriate spindle on the crank the chainring is run logo side out which offsets the teeth in a bit. If on the other hand you have a 190ish rear end but a 170 appropriate spindle run it logo side in which offsets the chainline out a bit for the correct chainline for the 190 rear end. This allows for a narrower spacing of the pedals but may not have much clearance between the crank arms and chainstays. My bike has plenty but ymmv.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

I've read on here that the SN01 can handle the Lou / Bud combo on 90mm wheels but does anyone know if they work with 100mm wheels? Shoulda paid more attention to this before ordering everything! If they wont I'll just go with the specialized ground control 4.6. Thanks


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

I've been working with Linda, close to pulling the trigger on this SN-01 complete bike. $2748 with shipping. Any thoughts?

2015 Golden fat bike - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


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## hohokam (Nov 9, 2015)

Hi.... i'm french and I follow your topic since few days, I want to buy one Chinese fat bike frame... iI like the FM079 sold by Q2cycling and Yishunbike

FM079 BB30/BSA 26er Snowbike Fatbike Carbon Bicycle Frame [FM079]

FAT BIKE FRAME







What do you think about these two companies ?
one of you Has already bought this frame ? what is your opinion about this model ?
Thanks


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Tips-Up said:


> I've been working with Linda, close to pulling the trigger on this SN-01 complete bike. $2748 with shipping. Any thoughts?
> 
> 2015 Golden fat bike - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


I think you can build a better bike yourself for cheaper.


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

Received my FM190 in great condition. 
Paid last Monday and received today. 1 week! 
The frame came so fast I haven't even had a chance to order the drivetrain.

I noticed my frame didn't have any of the wires sticking out like some others have received. It does look like I have internal cable routing already built in for both cable for gears and a thicker hole for brakes.

Rear spacing was right at 197 at the dropouts (thruaxle). 
Now it's hurry up and wait for the rest of the parts.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

Has anyone tried Snowshoe 2XL in a Chinese fatty?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Tips-Up said:


> I've been working with Linda, close to pulling the trigger on this SN-01 complete bike. $2748 with shipping. Any thoughts?
> 
> 2015 Golden fat bike - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


will you need to pay import taxes/duties?



Chippertheripper said:


> I think you can build a better bike yourself for cheaper.


Chipper is correct

I have the same bike except with these differences: XT Shifter & Derallieur, SLX Cassette & Chain, Full SLX Brakes, 2x Ground Control 4.5 tyres, 2x ChaoYang 4.9 tyres and 2x spare tubes, I ended up throwing the carbon Handlebar and Stem (because of the flex) and replacing them with Aluminium ones.

All in all it came in about $400.00 cheaper

and you have the fun of building it yourself :thumbsup:


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Chippertheripper said:


> I think you can build a better bike yourself for cheaper.


Agree! Mine come out to be like 1850-1900ish I wanna say and I changed a few things around or it would have been 1750 flat.

I added a 30T ring vs the 32 it came with, H-Billies, OneUp Kit. It came with X7 Rear and shifter, Elixer 5 brakes and all the same stuff your has but for way cheaper. Its not painted but thats not worth the extra coin for me. Maybe if it was XTR or something super awesome but not for deore and paint.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

She quoted UD matte (no paint) for same component spec at $2,048 + 4.4% paypal.

I've ordered 2 bikesdirect bikes (Boris fatty, $300 rigid singlespeed 29er) and have had great success "assembling" them. However, I don't have experience (or tools) to build from scratch, without spending $500 at the LBS - and I don't think they'd be thrilled to see me bring in thou$ands of dollars of bike for them to put together. So I thought maybe a complete bike would be more comfortable for an aspiring wrencher as myself.


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

If a LBS wants 500 bucks to build a bike for you then turn and run the other way! Most shops are like 100 beans to build a bike if you have the parts. If you mean tools all you would need is to bring your fork to the LBS to have it cut once you mark it. The internal cable for the rear brake would need to be run and other then that you can build it with a 5nm ritchey torque key for 20 bucks off amazon and some allen keys. I WOULD if I was you ask if it is coming pre assembled. They might have the bike mostly put together to save on shipping. Mine came in two boxes, one wheelset other frame/parts mostly built up. Even still 2k is a bit high, My friend got one with all X9 for under 2k for his. He did have an issue with his headtube coming smacked up but they did send him out a new frame for what its worth.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Did you mean Ican's 90mm rims?


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

This one went together with some good stuff and is well under 2k as seen. I think 2100 total once the nextsl's show up.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Chippertheripper said:


> This one went together with some good stuff and is well under 2k as seen. I think 2100 total once the nextsl's show up.


Nice looking bike Chipper. 
Any idea on the weight of that fine looking beast please ?
Particularly digging the blue. Wish I'd had more imagination for my build than the boring black n red now 

Fat biker

P.S. Is that seat safe ? Would / could you not be better off if you pushed it back and got a shorter stem ?


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

The seat has been fine for a few hundred miles, it's not forward of the lines on the rails. The stem is already 60mm, so there isn't much more room for wiggle there. It's more about my mega sized ass being on top of the cranks. 
Bike is 26lbs on the nose as pictured. And the blue is left over silliness from my Minnesota 3.0. 
I had actually prefer the black/red, but the blue was the only thing they had in stock at the time so in sheer desperation I told them to ship it last winter. 
After all that, and building this new one, I wish I'd gone for blue rim strips, because the spoke nipples are really hardly noticeable.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Nah ! The blue looks fine buddy. Better than black n red any day IMHO . 

When mines complete I'll maybe post pics. Slow build process though 


Fat Biker


P.S. 26lbs ain't a bad weight either


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Nah, it's light enough certainly. 
I went out last week for a little experiment. Monday I ripped a local 9mile loop at a constant effort (on my racey 27.5 hardtail). Thursday I did the same thing and tried to match the same effort on the Hong Kong Phooey and see where I landed. My avg heart rate for the two rides was 1 Bpm apart. Trail conditions were identical. The temp was about 10°f warmer the day I rode my race bike. 
I was 35seconds slower overall on the fatty. 
It's a good whip. 
So good, I'm going to sell the hardtail frame and build a 100mm full squish to race, and keep the fatty for general rigid type shenanigans.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

ian0789 said:


> If a LBS wants 500 bucks to build a bike for you then turn and run the other way! Most shops are like 100 beans to build a bike if you have the parts. If you mean tools all you would need is to bring your fork to the LBS to have it cut once you mark it. The internal cable for the rear brake would need to be run and other then that you can build it with a 5nm ritchey torque key for 20 bucks off amazon and some allen keys. I WOULD if I was you ask if it is coming pre assembled. They might have the bike mostly put together to save on shipping. Mine came in two boxes, one wheelset other frame/parts mostly built up. Even still 2k is a bit high, My friend got one with all X9 for under 2k for his. He did have an issue with his headtube coming smacked up but they did send him out a new frame for what its worth.


Disagree
I've build lots of bikes from scratch and this is on the more involved side. I'm about half done building my SN01 with my own parts, not theirs. Here are the tools I think you'll need depending on your build. All sized of allen keys from 2-8mm for shifters, brakes, grips and crank, Torx key for brake bolts, bb tool to install bb, hacksaw to cut the steerer, chain tool, cable cutters, brake bleed set up and maybe misc parts, drill to enlarge internal cable routing guide. This is my first internally routed frame and it is a pita, deal with the cables first.

On the plus side I haven't found any insurmountable problems. So far the only thing I'm displeased with is the style of the thru axles. Both front and rear thread into loose nuts that seem easy to lose. I'm thinking of using a little silicone caulk to hold the nuts in place so they don't get lost when removing the wheels. Does anyone else have a better solution?

Should be done by tomorrow depending on when the tubeless tape comes and my work day. I'll post pictures.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

The cables on my bike went slick as baby poop. $500 to build a bike is outrageous.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

artnshel said:


> drill to enlarge internal cable routing guide. This is my first internally routed frame and it is a pita, deal with the cables first.


drill what? 
my SN01 didnt require drilling to route the shift cable or brake hose


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

I've got an sn01 at the house and 100mm carbon wheels coming. I've realized I can't run the bud/lou combo I bought so any thoughts on what tires to get? I'm thinking the ground control 4.6's?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Ground Controls are 4.5s or 4.0, l have the 4.5s and they are great


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

cmg71 said:


> Ground Controls are 4.5s or 4.0, l have the 4.5s and they are great


I just snagged some GC 4.6's and they should get here about when my wheels do! Cant' wait to get this sn01 built!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

cmg71 said:


> Ground Controls are 4.5s or 4.0, l have the 4.5s and they are great


Ah no, they are 4.6. Or at least that is what it says on them. What the actual size is I have no idea.

Specialized Bicycle Components


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

*SN01 barely fits a Lou rear on 90mm rim*



bncrshr77 said:


> I've read on here that the SN01 can handle the Lou / Bud combo on 90mm wheels but does anyone know if they work with 100mm wheels? Shoulda paid more attention to this before ordering everything! If they wont I'll just go with the specialized ground control 4.6. Thanks


Before ordering I had the impression that a Lou would fit in back but I've discovered that it's a much tighter fit than I'd like with 90mm carbon rims from Ican. The hairs of the edge knobs touch the chainstays. 
It's about 28.5 lbs and I'm excited to ride it!


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Dang that is close even with the 80's... Sure wish I woulda paid more attention to wheel size when ordering but I got trigger happy when the Ican add said max 4.8 tire! Ohh well, looks like the ground controls are what I'm using because I'm sure as heck not buying another set of wheels anytime soon! Thanks for the pics and clarification!


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Way back in this thread there are a couple of folks running 100mm blutos, and they say all is fine, but the bluto only fits the M & L, on the S frame the crown hits the downtube.
So if you need a smaller frame l would do some searching.........

I cant forsee any issue with Juggernauts in the SN01


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## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

Aargh, I've read the whole thread and even took notes. The one thing I know I saw that I didn't write down was who makes a 21" frame with a 170mm rear. IIRC it was basically the same geometry as the Dengfu FM190 but with a narrower rear. For the life of me I can't find it now. Anyone know what it is?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

This info I also posted elsewhere, but is valid in this thread as well (I think)

The two quotes are just for the info/history



cmg71 said:


> Has anyone pulled one of the rear wheel hubs apart?
> Specifically the ICAN hub, l have some play in the freehub, and lm on holidays for another week (at least) with this bike, want to know whats involved in pulling it apart.
> 
> I currently have 2 options:
> ...





cmg71 said:


> mmmmmm....its not the cassette as l already had that off, l know its in the freehub, but l dont have the tools for that...unfortunately.
> Im thinking l need the two 17mm wrenches, which of course are only ~800kms away
> 
> so lm up sh!t creek without a paddle, think lm gonna just ride it (carefully...) while l can and try to fix it when we get home.....will keep you updated, worst comes to worst its a new hub & spokes l spose.





cmg71 said:


> So, my 90mm rims came with the six pawl hub, 4 of those pawls were 'stuck' down, therefore all the force when pedalling was on two pawls which happened to be next to each other, this in turn puts all the force on one side of the freehub bearing, which is of course not good.
> The bearing is on its way out, and the shop had none, but they cleaned it all up so all the pawls are again engaging and the freehub spins nicely again, now that the force is evenly spread out the play from the bearing is hardly noticeable, will see today how it goes
> 
> All that cost me a total of 10 euros, reckon it cost more in petrol to drive to the shop.


So the freehub has been good up until this week (luckily a new one is on the way), and today l pulled it apart, 5 of the pawls were stuck down, which puts all the pressure on one side of the bearings, anyway as l already knew the inside bearing was not 'so good'.
These two pics show the level of play, l could move the inner race about 2-3mm, in the pics the inner race is moved down and then upwards




While l was testing how much play there was the inner race just fell out into my hand, then things got real interesting, the bearings and cage were easy to get, but l didnt expect what l saw next

inner race, cage and some bearings.....



notice the balls are broken in half...... every ball was like that.

Well this bearing causing the play, pretty much stuffed the pawls and area around them, the pawls were getting stuck due to the damage shown:



the body of the freehub between the pawls has been contacting the toothed area inside the hub, this has damaged the pawls and gaps between them, so they get stuck down and the spring for them also gets stuck.



The 'teeth' inside the hub all look good, so l guess the freehub is made weaker as it can be replaced.

Now l hope the new freehub arrives soon, my next race is in a week.

I will attempt to work on the freehub, new bearings and some filing, and bring it back to a useable state, will report back on how it goes.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

I admire your tenacity. I'd have broken out the ***** and cut that hub right out of the rim.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

I had the same issue with the hubs that came with my ican 65 rims. I'm on my second freehub and that one is failing in the same way. I have a new dt swiss hub sitting in my house that I plan on replacing the hub with once it completely fails. I hope I can get through the winter on the old ones. 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Negotiator50 said:


> I had the same issue with the hubs that came with my ican 65 rims. I'm on my second freehub and that one is failing in the same way. I have a new dt swiss hub sitting in my house that I plan on replacing the hub with once it completely fails. I hope I can get through the winter on the old ones.


Did you replace the whole freehub assembly with an ican one or one that was compatible ?

What I would really like to know is did you try to replace the bearings with better quality / harder wearing ones ?

I'm trying to ascertain whether this is a basic hub design fault or if it's just garbage bearings that are causing the failure issues people are seeing.

It would be nice if these Chinese fat bike hubs could be made more durable by a simple bearing swap. Or possibly a steel freehub swap.

Fat Biker


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

I just replaced the whole freehub. I haven't checked the bearings. I was getting deformation of the pawls on the freehub and the area around it like in your picture. 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

I suggest that you take the time to trim the whiskers off the edge lugs if you intend to keep that tire on the bike. Carbon fiber abrades very easily and all it would take is a little dirt or mud to make the whiskers abrasive enough to damage the frame. You may also want to apply something more abrasion resistant to the contact areas, even though that will reduce the clearance a bit more. Wrapping it with tape will work if you replace it as it wears. It might be possible to apply a layer of metal "muffler bandage" tape that you can find in auto parts stores. Here's an example: Amazon.com: VersaChem Exhaust System Repair Tape (82009): Automotive


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Fat Biker said:


> It would be nice if these Chinese fat bike hubs could be made more durable by a simple bearing swap. Or possibly a steel freehub swap.
> 
> Fat Biker


my thinking is that some good quality bearings will fix this issue, or shift it somewhere else.......

which is why l will try to 'rework' the worn out hub, and order better bearings.

As said in another thread though, $60 delivered for a new freehub after a bit more than 2000kms is something l can live with.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Flucod said:


> Where do you guys find the the 2 1.5mm spacers to run the cinch cranks on a 120 BSA BB, thanks


 My Turbine Cinch crank came with all of the necessary spacers. There were two wide ones and two thin ones, the former being for use only with 100mm BBs.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> My Turbine Cinch crank came with all of the necessary spacers. There were two wide ones and two thin ones, the former being for use only with 100mm BBs.


Same here. I used two bottom bracket spacers on each side on my 120mm bb and the two thin spacers (one on each side) that came with the crank.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Has anyone built up a Carbon-Cycle frame? I am looking at these as they have a steeper HA and also shorter stays. I kinda like my bikes on the twitchy side. But i am not sure what kind of clearance i would get in the back. i wan to be able to run bud/Lou or a 4.8 JJ. any help would be awesome. link below for the frame i am looking at

19 5? 26er Carbon Fat Frame Bike thru Axle Chain Guard MTB UD Matt 4 8" 197mm | eBay


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Jefflinde said:


> Has anyone built up a Carbon-Cycle frame? I am looking at these as they have a steeper HA and also shorter stays. I kinda like my bikes on the twitchy side. But i am not sure what kind of clearance i would get in the back. i wan to be able to run bud/Lou or a 4.8 JJ. any help would be awesome. link below for the frame i am looking at
> 
> 19 5? 26er Carbon Fat Frame Bike thru Axle Chain Guard MTB UD Matt 4 8" 197mm | eBay


That looks like the same frame as Ican SN-01. Lots of people have built that one up.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

head angle and seat stays are different. I have looked at the SN01 but i don't like a head angle that slack.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Flucod said:


> Did the SN01 come with the rear thru axle? If not, where did you get one from, just checked my supplier and they only have a SRAM maxle in 197 and it is not available until next year.


Have you tried ebay? They usually have through axles. Googling fat bike through axle gets a few hits as well.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

No idea, sorry.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

My SN01 came with both thru axles


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## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

I don't see the geometry anywhere but am interested as the only other one I've seen I. A 21" also is the dengfu fm190 or others of the same mood. Its stays aren't what I'd call short though.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Jefflinde said:


> Has anyone built up a Carbon-Cycle frame? I am looking at these as they have a steeper HA and also shorter stays. I kinda like my bikes on the twitchy side. But i am not sure what kind of clearance i would get in the back. i wan to be able to run bud/Lou or a 4.8 JJ. any help would be awesome. link below for the frame i am looking at
> 
> 19 5? 26er Carbon Fat Frame Bike thru Axle Chain Guard MTB UD Matt 4 8" 197mm | eBay


I have one. I can't answer any of your clearance questions as mine has fatbnimbles right now. I'll put fatter sneaks on when the white stuff flies. I wouldn't really call it twitchy, but it's a fat bike. It was pretty intuitive to get used to on my end.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

The carbon-cycle frame has only 17.3 in cstays, which in my mind, would fit up to a 4.5 inch tire. I wonder what size fork makes the head angle come in at 69.5? Like the short stays and hoping a 120mm Bluto will slaken it up to 68 or less degrees. Anyone running this frame with a 100-120mm fork that can confirm ha?


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

So I built this Dengfu FM190(197mm) frameset up after receiving it recently. My Bluto wont quite fit as the Lockout on the crown will just catch the underside of the Down Tube.
Very impressed with all aspects of the sale and the frame/fork quality is first class. Weight is 11.5kg ready to ride


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

Bnystrom said:


> I suggest that you take the time to trim the whiskers off the edge lugs if you intend to keep that tire on the bike. Carbon fiber abrades very easily and all it would take is a little dirt or mud to make the whiskers abrasive enough to damage the frame. You may also want to apply something more abrasion resistant to the contact areas, even though that will reduce the clearance a bit more. Wrapping it with tape will work if you replace it as it wears. It might be possible to apply a layer of metal "muffler bandage" tape that you can find in auto parts stores. Here's an example: Amazon.com: VersaChem Exhaust System Repair Tape (82009): Automotive


I think this was directed to me, if so, thanks. I switched from a Lou to a Bud in back for less rolling resistance but it's the same size so I will follow your advice and cut the hairs. I also have some frame saver patches I can use. Am I making a mistake running with so little tire clearance? I assume snow will stick to the tire and then rub off on the chainstays I know it will create a little bit of resistance but I'm hoping it won't be bad.


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## gringoloco78 (Oct 31, 2015)

shanesbw said:


> So I built this Dengfu FM190(197mm) frameset up after receiving it recently. My Bluto wont quite fit as the Lockout on the crown will just catch the underside of the Down Tube.
> Very impressed with all aspects of the sale and the frame/fork quality is first class. Weight is 11.5kg ready to ride


Love the color scheme. Did dengfu do your paint? Killer build


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

shanesbw said:


> So I built this Dengfu FM190(197mm) frameset up after receiving it recently. My Bluto wont quite fit as the Lockout on the crown will just catch the underside of the Down Tube.
> Very impressed with all aspects of the sale and the frame/fork quality is first class. Weight is 11.5kg ready to ride
> View attachment 1028861


That's one nice looking build right there. Congrats buddy.

Fat Biker


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

That's a good looking bike. Too bad about the bluto. You built a winner! Definitely a top five build on the thread. If I wasn't 6'7", that's what I would have gone for. I'm a little bit jealous. 
H


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

I love the orange. Don't hate me if mine turns into a creamsicle too.
I missed the boat on an orange road frame and I've been kicking myself ever since. 
That, and as a ktm rider/racer I bleed orange.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Yeah both the orange and gold color looks real nice.

For the frames that have internal cabling, are the cables making noise each time you hit a bump, my Crux has internal cabling and it would make a clinking noise each time that I would go over any obstacles.
Also, am looking on getting a frame but noticed most companies BB are BSA but would prefer a BB30. Did read many pages last night but didn't find one that was actually making them with a BB30, they're using the BSA and are they as good as BB30?

Thanks


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Nash04 said:


> Also, am looking on getting a frame but noticed most companies BB are BSA but would prefer a BB30. Did read many pages last night but didn't find one that was actually making them with a BB30, they're using the BSA and are they as good as BB30?


What makes you think you want BB30?

Both BB30 and PF30 have well-known problems with creaking and bearing failures due to less than perfect alignment. OTOH, BSA is solid and reliable. Companies like Race Face and E*Thirteen are making BSA cranks with 30mm spindles, so there's no disadvantage to BSA.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> What makes you think you want BB30?
> 
> Both BB30 and PF30 have well-known problems with creaking and bearing failures due to less than perfect alignment. OTOH, BSA is solid and reliable. Companies like Race Face and E*Thirteen are making BSA cranks with 30mm spindles, so there's no disadvantage to BSA.


Thanks for the info, have both E-Thirteen TRS and Race Face Turbine Cinch 30mm cranks so they should work with the BSA, cool!


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Nash04 said:


> Thanks for the info, have both E-Thirteen TRS and Race Face Turbine Cinch 30mm cranks so they should work with the BSA, cool!


Here are the Race Face part numbers for Turbine Cinch 175mm cranks for a 190mm rear end, 36/22 chainrings, spider and 100mm BB, all in black.


Crank arms - CK14TUR190A175BLK
Spider - F10002
Chainring set - RRTUR10EBLK
BB - BBBSA10030B6

If you go with a single, direct-mount chainring, you don't need the spider, just the arms, BB and whatever size chainring you prefer.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Awesome build. This is the frame that I think I am going with. Couple questions. What rear tire are you running and would you be able to post a few pics of the clearance in the back by the chain stays? I want to make sure I can run 4.8 with no rubbing. My old frame was listed as capable but couldn't actually do it.

Thank you



shanesbw said:


> So I built this Dengfu FM190(197mm) frameset up after receiving it recently. My Bluto wont quite fit as the Lockout on the crown will just catch the underside of the Down Tube.
> Very impressed with all aspects of the sale and the frame/fork quality is first class. Weight is 11.5kg ready to ride
> View attachment 1028861
> View attachment 1028862
> ...


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

shanesbw said:


> So I built this Dengfu FM190(197mm) frameset up after receiving it recently. My Bluto wont quite fit as the Lockout on the crown will just catch the underside of the Down Tube.
> Very impressed with all aspects of the sale and the frame/fork quality is first class. Weight is 11.5kg ready to ride
> View attachment 1028861
> 
> ...


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## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

NH Mtbiker said:


> The carbon-cycle frame has only 17.3 in cstays


On your link I noticed they have 2 different geometries. One is the short chain stay that you cited, the other is the FM190 Geometry exactly. Curious how we know which listing is for which frame. Did you ask the seller?

*I just sent a note to the seller to ask


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

gringoloco78 said:


> Love the color scheme. Did dengfu do your paint? Killer build


Thanks and yes Dengfu did the paint


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I saw that too. I noticed one geometry is the .5 sizes and the other is the whole sizes. I was going to ask once I closer to buying. This auction was for the half size frame



Deephaven said:


> On your link I noticed they have 2 different geometries. One is the short chain stay that you cited, the other is the FM190 Geometry exactly. Curious how we know which listing is for which frame. Did you ask the seller?
> 
> *I just sent a note to the seller to ask


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Thanks, very happy with it. Just gotta get more riding time.


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Tincup69 said:


> shanesbw said:
> 
> 
> > So I built this Dengfu FM190(197mm) frameset up after receiving it recently. My Bluto wont quite fit as the Lockout on the crown will just catch the underside of the Down Tube.
> ...


----------



## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

Jefflinde said:


> I saw that too. I noticed one geometry is the .5 sizes and the other is the whole sizes. I was going to ask once I closer to buying. This auction was for the half size frame


I didn't notice the .5 size...but they both come in a 21" which is what I was looking at. When they respond to my question, I'll post the answer up here.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> Here are the Race Face part numbers for Turbine Cinch 175mm cranks for a 190mm rear end, 36/22 chainrings, spider and 100mm BB, all in black.
> 
> 
> Crank arms - CK14TUR190A175BLK
> ...


Thanks for the info, will check my parts to see if they're the same.


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## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

Regrettably I got a response, the 440mm chainstay model was a mistake in the listing. What it seems they have is the exact same frame as the FM190 on Dengfu's site.

Obviously that is a print for some frame. If it was/is a fat bike I'd love to know where to get it. If not, I am going to order a Dengfu here in the next day or so.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

thank you for following up on this. looks like i am going with the FM190. it is actually cheaper to go directly to them then on eBay



Deephaven said:


> Regrettably I got a response, the 440mm chainstay model was a mistake in the listing. What it seems they have is the exact same frame as the FM190 on Dengfu's site.
> 
> Obviously that is a print for some frame. If it was/is a fat bike I'd love to know where to get it. If not, I am going to order a Dengfu here in the next day or so.


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Jefflinde said:


> Awesome build. This is the frame that I think I am going with. Couple questions. What rear tire are you running and would you be able to post a few pics of the clearance in the back by the chain stays? I want to make sure I can run 4.8 with no rubbing. My old frame was listed as capable but couldn't actually do it.
> 
> Thank you


So my rear tyre is a Vee Bulldozer 4.7 set up tubeless and there is heaps of clearance for a 4.8"  Pretty sure others are using Bud/Lou combo on this same frame. OzzyBMX springs to mind.


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Tincup69 said:


> shanesbw said:
> 
> 
> > So I built this Dengfu FM190(197mm) frameset up after receiving it recently. My Bluto wont quite fit as the Lockout on the crown will just catch the underside of the Down Tube.
> ...


----------



## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

shanesbw said:


> So I built this Dengfu FM190(197mm) frameset up after receiving it recently. My Bluto wont quite fit as the Lockout on the crown will just catch the underside of the Down Tube.
> Very impressed with all aspects of the sale and the frame/fork quality is first class. Weight is 11.5kg ready to ride
> View attachment 1028861
> View attachment 1028862
> ...


Sweet looking bike but you mentioned that the Bluto doesn't fit properly due to its lockout. What year is this frame and wonder if the 2015 model has modified their downtube since some of us would like to install our Bluto.


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## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

Jefflinde said:


> thank you for following up on this. looks like i am going with the FM190. it is actually cheaper to go directly to them then on eBay


I've been discussing a purchase with Melody at Dengfu as well. Getting closer, but when you found that frame and it came in a 21" I got a bit excited to maybe switch things up. Now color is the only question left....


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Nash04 said:


> Sweet looking bike but you mentioned that the Bluto doesn't fit properly due to its lockout. What year is this frame and wonder if the 2015 model has modified their downtube since some of us would like to install our Bluto.


Latest frame as far as I know as just purchased in the last month.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Have any of you guys with the Fm190 run a 29+ setup? I am assuming that there won't be an issue but you know what happens when you assume.

Also is there a spacer that can be added to the bottom of the headset for the bluto? I seem to remember people talking about it but not sure if they were serious.


----------



## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Sent an email to KHS about the cost of their carbon frame and he stated $2400 for a 17"
Talk about overpricing and his excuse was the tariffs fees!!


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Fat Biker said:


> I'm trying to ascertain whether this is a basic hub design fault or if it's just garbage bearings that are causing the failure issues people are seeing.
> It would be nice if these Chinese fat bike hubs could be made more durable by a simple bearing swap. Or possibly a steel freehub swap.
> Fat Biker





Negotiator50 said:


> I just replaced the whole freehub. I haven't checked the bearings. I was getting deformation of the pawls on the freehub and the area around it like in your picture.


because I commute to work I have some time to think about stuff......

Ive been mulling over in my head what happens first? 

 bearing begins to fail, allowing play in freehub, thus causing the damage
 the pawls get stuck down due to dirt/mud/sand (whatever), putting the force on the remaining pawls and unevenly on the bearing, which in turn leads to the first point

Either way Im not sure, but I have a plan 
I plan to pull the freehub off every ~200kms and check it, and make sure the pawls are functioning properly, as I believe this was the start of my problems.

The new Free Hub is in the country, so I should have it tomorrow.

I especially need to check/clean it after rides like this..........:eekster:


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## dogsonboards (Nov 17, 2015)

*Bud and Lou work just fine on this frame*



Jefflinde said:


> Has anyone built up a Carbon-Cycle frame? I am looking at these as they have a steeper HA and also shorter stays. I kinda like my bikes on the twitchy side. But i am not sure what kind of clearance i would get in the back. i wan to be able to run bud/Lou or a 4.8 JJ. any help would be awesome. link below for the frame i am looking at
> 
> 19 5? 26er Carbon Fat Frame Bike thru Axle Chain Guard MTB UD Matt 4 8" 197mm | eBay


Here are pictures of this frame with Bud and Lou



























This is with a 65mm rim as I was concerned about them fitting, especially since I was building this up 2x10. There is plenty of room though. I think even an 80mm rim would be fine.

If you were going to use a 100mm rim, I am not sure. 1x10 would probably work, but might be tight to the frame.


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## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

Woot. Sent of my nearly final graphics to Dengfu. Hopefully I can order tomorrow.

Curious for those with paint what sort of delivery time you had.


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## Jukahia (Jul 8, 2015)

Nash04;
One can order full fatbike, carbon "khs" under 2000$ from norway... Also sold in Sweden and Finland under name White... Or I would say that KHS, is selling these White's as theirs...
https://www.xxl.no/sykkel/sykler/fatbikes/c/100220


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

The hub turned up today , Thursday to Tuesday, China to Switzerland, woot



a pic to show the bearing numbers, notice they say 'enduro', the same bearings are used for the wheel.

The pawls had a little grease on them which imo was too sticky (thick), so l cleaned it all off and used a spray oil (Bruno, got it in a sponsor bag), the pawls moved a lot better with the oil, mounted it all up, and the bike feels almost like new, although this could also have something to do with new brake pads and brake oil as well, lll be commuting on the Fatty again.

Woot woot!


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Jukahia said:


> Nash04;
> One can order full fatbike, carbon "khs" under 2000$ from norway... Also sold in Sweden and Finland under name White... Or I would say that KHS, is selling these White's as theirs...
> https://www.xxl.no/sykkel/sykler/fatbikes/c/100220


Got a reply back from Alaskan Carbon Fat Bike Frame 2016 and selling the frame for $999.00 but I think that I might get the FM190 since I have most of the components and want to use my Bluto

Thanks for the info


----------



## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Nash04 said:


> Got a reply back from Alaskan Carbon Fat Bike Frame 2016 and selling the frame for $999.00 but I think that I might get the FM190 since I have most of the components and want to use my Bluto
> 
> Thanks for the info


You see a couple posts up about cats having trouble with bluto clearance??


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## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

Just get a large or bigger


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Or be a man and run it rigid.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Chippertheripper said:


> You see a couple posts up about cats having trouble with bluto clearance??


Saw that so now I'm looking at the SN01 cause it will take the Bluto and the chain stay is shorter.


----------



## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Chippertheripper said:


> Or be a man and run it rigid.


Is that how you prove yourself to be man, pretty sad!


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Chippertheripper said:


> Or be a man and run it rigid.





Nash04 said:


> Is that how you prove yourself to be man, pretty sad!


Maybe. Just maybe Chipper was using something some of us like to call humour. I dunno whadyathink ? :idea: :yesnod: :lol:

Fat Biker


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Fat Biker said:


> Maybe. Just maybe Chipper was using something some of us like to call humour. I dunno whadyathink ? :idea: :yesnod: :lol:
> 
> Fat Biker


LOL! True but usually we end the sentence with either a smiley or a LOL!


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

For the bikers with a 168 mm chainstay, are you having issue with the chain being long enough to fit properly?

My bike's chainstay is 457 with a 42T and 32T Oval and I might have 3 links left once it's finally cut to the proper length. Using the Ultegra 6800-XT 8000 which has 116 links


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Hah. I actually get razzed by my fat riding homies because my bike isn't manly enough because it's too light without the fork and whatnot. They say I'm cheating.


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

My Large FM190 has been built for a couple of weeks now, but I've had a cold for that time that is absolutely been kicking my butt.

A couple of impressions:

Light. Can't believe how light it is with the carbon fork.

1x11 GX shifter, derailleur, and cog work great.

Put a Turbine on it as I a grew tired of waiting for the Next SL. In hindsight, I think the Turbine is plenty and is pretty light itself.

Tubeless Bud and Lou fit with no issues in the carbon fork.

Put a 120mm Bluto on it on Monday. The blue dial clears the downtube with the DengFu headset no problem. Haven't actually ridden with the Bluto yet.

I won't lie - I would like to see more clearance in the Bluto for the Bud. I think the little rubber hairs are touching the top of the arch. Will see if there are long-term clearance issues.

Need to put more carbon paste on my seat post. I have a dropper and shim in there, and it slipped on my test ride. Stupid seat clamp issues.

First time on a fat bike. Seems to ride nice. Have to figure out tire pressures yet, but that will come with time.

Pictures to come sometime.

-Nate


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Flawless Cowboy said:


> My Large FM190 has been built for a couple of weeks now, but I've had a cold for that time that is absolutely been kicking my butt.
> 
> A couple of impressions:
> 
> ...


Dumb Question?

Is 19" "the large" frame. Thought the new frame would accept the Bluto with no issue?

Wonder which vendor's model does the Bluto fits with no issue?


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

Nash04 said:


> Dumb Question?
> 
> Is 19" "the large" frame. Thought the new frame would accept the Bluto with no issue?
> 
> Wonder which vendor's model does the Bluto fits with no issue?


Yes, the large frame is the 19.5". I have heard the small and medium now have issues with Bluto.

-Nate

Sent from my Lenovo TAB S8-50F using Tapatalk


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

WOW! I wonder if they (China) will ever get it right?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Noticed most frames are made with Toray 700 but did find one that's 800. Is the 800 stronger/better than the 700?
This one is 800; 19 5" 26er Carbon Fat Bicycle Frame Snow Sand Axle QR BSA Matt Max Tire 4 8"Part | eBay


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

That's a fm190. I just went back and looked, mine said t800 too. I don't know if it actually makes a difference or not. I've ridden mine pretty hard, and so far with no issues. I might go race an enduro on it this Sunday.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Your dimensions are the same as the link I posted and has the same warranty but did noticed your frame weigh about 1240 where the link is 1340 but that could be an error, wow!


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Chippertheripper said:


> That's a fm190. I just went back and looked, mine said t800 too. I don't know if it actually makes a difference or not. I've ridden mine pretty hard, and so far with no issues. I might go race an enduro on it this Sunday.


Where did you purchase yours?


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Carbon-cycle


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Chippertheripper said:


> Carbon-cycle


What's their web site since it's not coming up under your posted brand.

Thanks


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

eBay seller.


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## elerner61 (Mar 18, 2004)

Has anyone done a Plus sized wheelset with a fork on their FM (or other) frame? I'm planning something for next spring so I can ride the bike more on our techie trails here in the NorthEast. I'm thinking of Stans Hugo 52mm rims but not sure whether a 100mm or 120mm shock would be better


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

elerner61 said:


> Has anyone done a Plus sized wheelset with a fork on their FM (or other) frame? I'm planning something for next spring so I can ride the bike more on our techie trails here in the NorthEast. I'm thinking of Stans Hugo 52mm rims but not sure whether a 100mm or 120mm shock would be better


I'm waiting for LB 50mm rims to arrive and will install them with some Vee Traxx Fatty 3.25 for the front on my 80mm Bluto and 3.0 on the rear. Should be nice.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

PeterXu said:


> Some pictures of CS-010 frame and complete CS-010 bike
> 
> And some 80mm wheels and 100mm wheels were shipped to the US today.
> 
> ...


LOVE The look of this but why did you do 190x12 rear????

Stick with the 197!!!


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

PeterXu said:


> Some pictures of CS-010 frame and complete CS-010 bike
> 
> And some 80mm wheels and 100mm wheels were shipped to the US today.
> 
> ...


Peter, you never answered on how you were able to fit the Bluto and Bella from Xiamen stated that it wouldn't work. Sure would like to know how you made it work.


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## SilverBullet (Dec 5, 2008)

What do you use to tension the chain? Do you have an eccentric BB?


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## 800296 (Nov 22, 2015)

Just finished up my carbon fatty. Ended up weighing in at 25.2lbs. Sorry for the bad pic, just snapped a quick one after I wrapped up.

Specs below:

Frame & Fork - 17" ICAN 190mm Rear Spacing 
Wheels - ICAN 90mm w/ Powerway Hubs; Front 15x135mm Rear 12x190mm
Tires - 45NRTH Vanhelga Tubeless
Bars - ICAN Carbon 31.6x700mm Flat
Headset - Cane Creek 40 IS42/52
Seatpost - ICAN Carbon 31.6x400mm
Seat - Chromag Moon Ti
Seat Collar - Hope 34.9
Stem - Hope AM-FR 70mm 20°
Grips - ESI Chunky
Brakes - Avid BB7 w/ Speed Dial 7 Levers
Shifter - Sram XX1 Trigger 11 Speed
R. Der - Sram XX1 11 Speed
Cassette - XX1 11 Speed
Chain - XX1 11 Speed
Crank - Race Face Next SL 170mm Rear Spacing 190mm
Chain Ring - Race Face NW 28t
Bottom Bracket - Race Face Cinch BSA30 100mm
Pedals - Hope F20


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## DSTONGE (Jul 8, 2008)

Your bench is too clean!


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Nash04 said:


> Peter, you never answered on how you were able to fit the Bluto and Bella from Xiamen stated that it wouldn't work. Sure would like to know how you made it work.


Many guys talked about this here before, the Bluto fork would hit the downtube so you need few spacers.

All frames you can see from our website are available , except CS-001 FS fat bike frame 

Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## papeon (Oct 12, 2006)

Received my wheels from Peter. 80mm with Novatec hubs. Built one off for my 245lbs. Set them up tubeless with Bud and Lou and took them for a ride. Very happy at this point.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Still trying to figure out if Lou (tubeless) on 65s will fit SN-01 / FB-01 frame. Does anyone have any experience with that? There was one confirmation that it fits, but they worried that the tire will start rubbing as it expanded while tubeless. Does anyone have any long term reports of Lou on 65mm rim in the SN-01 / FB-01 frame?


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

Nash04 said:


> What's their web site since it's not coming up under your posted brand.
> 
> Thanks


Pros Closet in Boulder, also on EBay, has multiple sizes of frames and parts. Don't have to worry about dealing with China directly on shipping time / fees / communication.

New Home items in The Pros Closet store on eBay!


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

revelcru said:


> Pros Closet in Boulder, also on EBay, has multiple sizes of frames and parts. Don't have to worry about dealing with China directly on shipping time / fees / communication.
> 
> New Home items in The Pros Closet store on eBay!


Thanks but I ordered a 010 from Peter which should be here sometime in early December since they're painting it. Now I need to find a 190 TA since the frame is TA and not QR which is weird for a 190.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Flucod said:


> Just received my SN01 frame and of course it is missing parts I assume, there are no threads in the rear of the frame for the thru bolt to screw into, anyone run into this?


The axle? There is a nut that goes on the end of the axle. It doesn't screw into the frame. Those would come with the wheels, not the frame.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Flucod said:


> Just received my SN01 frame and of course it is missing parts I assume, there are no threads in the rear of the frame for the thru bolt to screw into, anyone run into this?


I just received a complete SN01 build last night. ICAN's thru-bolt is like an oversized quick release axle. Instead of threading into the frame or fork like most other thru-axles I've seen, it threads into a bolt that sits in a recess on the opposite side of the frame or fork. AFAIK, the axles don't come by default with the frame -- you have to order them separately or as part of a complete build. They might come by default with ICANs wheelsets; I don't know.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Negotiator50 said:


> Still trying to figure out if Lou (tubeless) on 65s will fit SN-01 / FB-01 frame. Does anyone have any experience with that? There was one confirmation that it fits, but they worried that the tire will start rubbing as it expanded while tubeless. Does anyone have any long term reports of Lou on 65mm rim in the SN-01 / FB-01 frame?


IIRC, I read a thousand or so posts back that bud and lou fit on the SN01 on a *90mm* rim, but it's a very tight fit in the back. I would hope on a 65mm rim, the clearance would be a little bit better, but I have no idea.

I have 90mm rims and hope to mount bud and lou on them if I can. I will report back on my success or failure in case it's of any use to you or others. Cheers.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

ray.vermette said:


> ICAN's thru-bolt is like an oversized quick release axle. Instead of threading into the frame or fork like most other thru-axles I've seen, it threads into a bolt that sits in a recess on the opposite side of the frame or fork.


This is correct, & my thru axles came with my frame.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

ray.vermette said:


> IIRC, I read a thousand or so posts back that bud and lou fit on the SN01 on a *90mm* rim, but it's a very tight fit in the back. I would hope on a 65mm rim, the clearance would be a little bit better, but I have no idea.
> 
> I have 90mm rims and hope to mount bud and lou on them if I can. I will report back on my success or failure in case it's of any use to you or others. Cheers.


I'm getting mine on Friday so I will mount them on the 65s and report back. I think the issue with the 65s is the taller profile of the tire on the 65 rubbing the part of the chain stay connected to the bottom bracket. We shall see.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Flucod said:


> I see that, was told that when ordering the frame the headset and thru axle would come with it. I am not paying $45 for that cheap part, I can get a DT Swiss one for less (but they do not have the nut for the other side). In over 20 years in the business I have never received a frame that needed extra parts to install a wheel into a frame, none of the entire distributors in the US even carry such a thing.


You can order one of these Bitex : MTB hub,BMX hub,SHOW hub,FOLDING hub,CHILD hub, Wheelchair hub thru BikeHubStore.com , they're the US distributor. I need one also for my CS-010 but haven't heard back from Brandon, perhaps due to the holiday.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Flucod said:


> Correct and the nut should be bonded on the drive side of the frame, or inserted, none of the thru axles come with any frame nuts, there is no way to attach the wheels.


My ta did not come with my frame, it was a separate item. And the "nut" isn't bonded, it's held in with a set screw.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Flucod said:


> I see that, was told that when ordering the frame the headset and thru axle would come with it. I am not paying $45 for that cheap part, I can get a DT Swiss one for less (but they do not have the nut for the other side). In over 20 years in the business I have never received a frame that needed extra parts to install a wheel into a frame, none of the entire distributors in the US even carry such a thing.


If you were told you were getting the HS and TA with your price, then you'll have to go back to the seller to have them make good on what they sold you.

However, I have purchased several Chinese Carbon frames. The thru-axles have always been at an extra cost (you can usually negotiate it in, or get them to reduce the price). But none have required a nut. However, for fat-bikes, regardless of brand/model/etc., it seems like the common design is to use a loose nut that is set into the frame. Even my chinese carbon fat fork (150mm) is the exact same set-up.

Unlike the big brand names that use a threaded insert that is bonded inside the frame, or one-piece with the derailleur hanger. This is how they can keep costs down.

Name-brand manufacturers generally include everything required in the box. But we are also paying about 1/4-1/3rd of what the big brand names are asking for very similar frames. We get what we pay for by ordering through a chinese re-seller that doesn't specialize in cycling retail. A very small price to pay for the huge discounts we are receiving.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Flucod said:


> Not really, just ordered a Heller frame for less then what the SN01 will cost factoring in all the added expense. If anyone wants the SN01, will sell cheap. Will put an ad up this weekend.


You claimed above that you bought it through ebay, that the purchase was suppose to include the thru axle, and the thru axle wasn't shipped. Seems like a simple matter to resolve through ebay dispute mechanisms, rather than selling the frame at a loss.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

I ordered a complete build kit from ICAN on November 5th. SN01 frame, 90mm wheelset, Maxxis tires, SRAM XX1/XO1 components, carbon bar/stem/post/seat. Kit arrived yesterday, assembled it last night, and rode it today for the first time. Loads of fun. Bike weighed under 25 pounds without pedals. Pictures and specs to follow....


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Flucod said:


> I see that, was told that when ordering the frame the headset and thru axle would come with it. I am not paying $45 for that cheap part, I can get a DT Swiss one for less (but they do not have the nut for the other side). In over 20 years in the business I have never received a frame that needed extra parts to install a wheel into a frame, none of the entire distributors in the US even carry such a thing.


If thats what you were told, then you have a copy in your emails/messages...... therefore it can be easily resolved.
ICAN in my experience have been great to deal with, so l see no issue, unless you didnt buy through ICAN????


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Something twigged in my mind, so l went and looked, in post #3291 you claim to have ordered the SN01, then in #3294 you ask whether TA are included, but in #3379 you say you were told (when ordering) that they were included, sounds to me like you're bullsh!tting us a bit.......:skep:


EDIT: I also went and checked Aliexpress, eBay & ICAN, all ads for the SN01 clearly show where the TA's are mounted and it is clear to see there is no thread there, nor is the supplied TA nut "bonded" to the frame............. did you even do any research?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

did your heller fall off the preverbal truck? there frames are over $1000. how is that cheaper then an ICAN? you could almost get 2 ICAN frames including all expenses for the heller frame and fork. 

I am in the process of ordering a FM190 and for frame, fork, bars, seat post and wheels i am looking at $1300 shipped and painted. 

i am starting to agree with CMG71


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I have not priced out a SN01 as I'm not interested in its spec's, but I did price-out a Dengfu FM190 directly in the past month.

Total quote for frame/fork/collar/headset/both thru-axles/EMS shipping/Paypal surcharge = $645 USD.

There is one seller on ebay selling for ~$50 USD less if you buy each component separately from them. The savings is in the lower shipping charges they quote on eBay (+combined shipping costs), and the lack of 4.2% paypal surcharge that they charge you if you buy direct. 

This is all before any negotiating. And I have generally been successful at getting a final price lower than their initial quotes.

Heller is fine. I like their concept. But they QBP just becomes a middle-man that builds an in-house budget for warranty/service, and prices for it. But I cannot see a way that they can be the same or cheaper than going direct.


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## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

Not everyone can build their own bike. Great solution for those people. I just hope that with companies like Heller someone in China will step up with a 22/23" class frame for those of us that are undersized.

As for the pricing, you forgot the custom painting fee of $63...at least that is what I paid for mine with graphics. Frame should be here in 10 days.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

As the discussion is around the inclusion of a thru-axle or not, we are clearly not discussing complete builds. We are talking about buying a frame (set) and building up.

vs. my FM190 quote, taking out the fork/headset, and including paint that is comparable to $576 (frame/axle/collar/paint/shipping/paypal fee). The Heller is $1249 Frame-only and becomes $672/117% more expensive vs. direct. You can buy two direct and still have $100 left over.

For that premium, you are getting:
- QBP profit
- Shipping from QBP to dealer
- Retailer profit
- U.S. based warranty/customer service (vs. dealing with a seller in China...all the major chinese sellers do offer a 2-year warranty on their carbon frames. I had a seatpost that arrived with a defect and the money was returned to me within 24 hrs. They just wanted me to send a video of me destroying the post before payment was processed.)


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

*SN01 Complete Build*

Pictures and details as promised.

Ordered direct from ICAN. I saw they offered a complete bike build on the SN03 frame with Sram X11. I asked if they could do it with the SN01 frame instead, no paint and no decals. No problem. Ordered on the 5th and received the bike on the 24th.

I mounted a set of 4.8 120tpi Lous front and back tonight (LBS was out of Buds). Plenty of clearance in the front; over half an inch on all sides.

The rear is a different story. The tire is ok at the seatstays and the chainline, but it's too tight at the chainstays. There is less than a 1/4 inch of clearance left and right. The little hairs are touching the frame. The tires are mounted on the ICAN 90mm wheelset, with tubes, inflated to 15 PSI. I obviously won't be riding at that pressure, but I did hope to run them tubeless, which I expect would stretch out the tire carcass a bit. I would try shaving off the outside knobs, but I don't know if that would make enough of a difference. Guess I will have to look for something just a bit narrower.

Swapping out the 4.0 Maxxis tires for 4.8 Lous and replacing the carbon seat for a padded one and installing pedals made the weight jump. It's now sitting at over 27 pounds, which is still fine with me.


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

ray.vermette said:


> ...The rear is a different story. The tire is ok at the seatstays and the chainline, but it's too tight at the seatstays. There is less than a 1/4 inch of clearance left and right. The little hairs are touching the frame. The tires are mounted on the ICAN 90mm wheelset, with tubes, inflated to 15 PSI. I obviously won't be riding at that pressure, but I did hope to run them tubeless, which I expect would stretch out the tire carcass a bit. I would try shaving off the outside knobs, but I don't know if that would make enough of a difference. Guess I will have to look for something just a bit narrower.


The pictures make it look like you have more clearance on the left. If so, perhaps you could offset the rim a bit and make it work?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

ray.vermette said:


> I mounted a set of 4.8 120tpi Lous front and back tonight (LBS was out of Buds). Plenty of clearance in the front; over half an inch on all sides.
> The rear is a different story.


I have the same frame/wheel set up, I have found anything bigger than 4.6 gets too close to the chainstays for my liking, I ride a lot of mud/slush etc, so I will stay with the 4.6 Ground Controls, I also have 4.9 Chaoyangs (same as FatBNimble) which I plan on using on the front when I get around to swapping it, the GCs are just such a damn good tyre imo

interesting way to run the front brake line, but you will definitely get rub on the fork, I shortened my front brake line (actually all lines as I hate long cables/lines) so it doesnt actually touch the fork, can be seen in this pic:


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Negotiator50 said:


> I'm getting mine on Friday so I will mount them on the 65s and report back. I think the issue with the 65s is the taller profile of the tire on the 65 rubbing the part of the chain stay connected to the bottom bracket. We shall see.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


The Lou fit great on the back of my SN-01 on 65mm rims. Here they are:










I don't anticipate any issues. They have tubes in them right now. I'll go tubeless in a couple days.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Negotiator50 said:


> The Lou fit great on the back of my SN-01 on 65mm rims. Here they are:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that your rear brake line going under the BB and if so, guess that we need to be careful going over rocks!


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Negotiator50 said:


> The Lou fit great on the back of my SN-01 on 65mm rims. Here they are....


Glad to hear it. I left mine inflated at 15psi overnight and by morning the outer lugs were touching the chainstay at one spot when I spun the tire. Deflated to under 5psi and the lugs are no longer touching, but still too close for comfort. Shaving the 2 outer rows of lugs would only give me about 3/8ths of an inch. Going to start checking out tire options in a 4.6 width.

My brake cable is routed under the bottom bracket as well. I didn't notice that before. The bracket is so high off the ground and I only plan to ride it in the winter, I don't think it will be a problem. Still, I'm going to see if I can reroute it. Better safe than sorry.


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

Please educate me on chain line. I have a FM190 XL with RF cinch 190 crank spindle. Searched and found a thread explaining perfect chain line. It just doesn't seem to fit correctly. 
197/2=98.5-80=18.5mm
With that formula my "perfect" chain line sits on the fourth smallest cog in the rear. When I'm in the largest cog there's a lot of reach on both front chain ring and the back. 
I'm running SRAM 1x11. 
Disregard the painters tape protecting the chain stay.

Thanks for any advice.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

My first question is: how does it ride?
If ok, then no problem, but it does look like you could use a smaller spacer in tbe BB (provided the crank doesnt hit the chainstay).

and a gratuitous pic from today.........get out and ride


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

Got the wheels up and running tubeless and was finally able to swing a leg over. I gotta say I'm pretty excited. I'm 6'6" 290 and this rig impressed. 
Solid, stiff ride and light to boot just a hair over 28lbs. 
I was a little worried the frame would be too small but it's a great fit. 
The chain line didn't seem to be an issue. I'll keep an eye on it. 
Great pic above. No snow in my neck of the woods but looking forward to when it hits. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Aceldama (Jan 18, 2005)

Hey everyone. I'm looking for a carbon fork for my Farley 8 for Winter. Measurements are 150mm spacing and around 490mm axle-to-crown.

One of the few forks that fits the bill is the ICAN 150mm fat fork but it makes me a little nervous at only $130. Does anyone have experience with this fork?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I had the carbon-cycle carbon fork and it was $107. it worked really well and even survived the trip off of my car and underneath a semi. I would definitely go with that fork again. I am going to retire my fork and get a new one just for safety sake but the quality of my fork was top notch.



Aceldama said:


> Hey everyone. I'm looking for a carbon fork for my Farley 8 for Winter. Measurements are 150mm spacing and around 490mm axle-to-crown.
> 
> One of the few forks that fits the bill is the ICAN 150mm fat fork but it makes me a little nervous at only $130. Does anyone have experience with this fork?


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

I have a dengfu fork I bought from the eBay seller carbon-cycle. It's pretty rugged. Heavy, almost, for a carbon fork. Just make sure you ask if (or ask them to) the axle is included. It uses a well nut type thing.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

Aceldama said:


> Hey everyone. I'm looking for a carbon fork for my Farley 8 for Winter. Measurements are 150mm spacing and around 490mm axle-to-crown.
> 
> One of the few forks that fits the bill is the ICAN 150mm fat fork but it makes me a little nervous at only $130. Does anyone have experience with this fork?


I've got that fork on my SN01 so I can upgrade to a Bluto and run the same wheel. and It's fine, it holds the wheel and seems stiff as heck. Just make sure you request the thru axle when you order it. Also be aware that the axle comes with a loose nut that isn't captured or held in the fork when the axle is out. I tried plastic epoxy to glue it in the fork but that didn't hold. I might try J&B weld next.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*A better idea...*

...is to just wrap tape around the outside until it fits tightly in the recess in the fork. That way you can still adjust it or remove it if necessary. I did that with mine and it stays in place securely.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

^ good tip. 
Aceldama, if you ever travel towards the south shore, you're more than welcome to check mine out.


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## tjwil9488 (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm looking at getting a Chinese carbon fat tire frame. I know several people that have purchased generic Chinese carbon frames and have been happy... Also good price point. I currently have a specialized aluminum Fatboy, it's more of an XC geometry and I'm looking for something more trail geometry. Something with a more upright relaxed geometry, designed for 100mm Bluto (specialized is designed for 80mm) also would like to keep with the 190mm rear 12 or QR. i've noticed most carbon frames with the 190 rear have a 70° head tube, am I correct trail design is more 69° and less? 




What is the geometry definition of XC vs Trail for a mountain/fat tire bike... Head tube angle?


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Have you considered just increasing the travel on your Bluto to 100mm? That will raise the head tube and decrease the head angle. Perhaps that's all you need. It will also raise the BB by ~1/2 as much as it raises the head tube and decrease the stand-over clearance, so that may be a consideration.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

I have no idea where the line of demarcation is for headtube angle for xc/am on a fat bike.
But I think collectively, as bike riders, we make too much of it. 
69° sounds about right, but I doubt a degree of difference, even as much as 2° is going to make THAT much of a difference in performance. Is you know, a fatty is slow enough steering as is, so grip it and rip it, IMO.


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## MTB9488 (Jun 18, 2012)

When I originally installed the Bluto I had it at 100mm. I rode it for a few months, definitely like some of the characteristics. Then switched to the 80mm....and WOW what a difference, more quick and nimble. I installed a shorter stem, 50mm (10mm shorter than stock) with a 6° rise, and lowrise handlebars. Stock is 2 10 mm spacers before the stem, I cut the steering tube so I could add an additional 10mm and tried it, but lost some quickness. Thinking I should just keep the 10 mm spacer and deal with it.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

MTB9488 said:


> When I originally installed the Bluto I had it at 100mm. I rode it for a few months, definitely like some of the characteristics. Then switched to the 80mm....and WOW what a difference, more quick and nimble. I installed a shorter stem, 50mm (10mm shorter than stock) with a 6° rise, and lowrise handlebars. Stock is 2 10 mm spacers before the stem, I cut the steering tube so I could add an additional 10mm and tried it, but lost some quickness. Thinking I should just keep the 10 mm spacer and deal with it.


Did you change the air shaft to change it to 80?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## tjwil9488 (Jul 7, 2011)

Negotiator50 said:


> Did you change the air shaft to change it to 80?
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Yes


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

just received picture of my CS-010 Frame, looking good.

Now it just needs to be ship


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

me likey


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Are you guys doing the split tube method or just sticking with gorilla tape for going tubeless? I have the 100mm carbon wheels from xmcarbonspeed. They are supposedly tubeless ready but I don't want any suprises! Thanks.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

I just went with tape for 65mm ican wheels. Very easy to set up tubeless with a shot of air from an air compressor. 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## tjwil9488 (Jul 7, 2011)

Nash04 said:


> just received picture of my CS-010 Frame, looking good.
> 
> Now it just needs to be ship


Did they paint the frame for you? I'm actually looking at purchasing that exact frame.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

tjwil9488 said:


> Did they paint the frame for you? I'm actually looking at purchasing that exact frame.


Sure did for $60.00 just need to give them the Pantone Code of the paint color which you can find by googling it.


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## tjwil9488 (Jul 7, 2011)

Nash04 said:


> Sure did for $60.00 just need to give them the Pantone Code of the paint color which you can find by googling it.


Is that geometry more trail or XC and is the geometry designed for a 100mm bluto?


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

I have some tire to frame measurements. Base bike is an SN01 18" and the wheels are 65 mm Nexties. This compares 4.0" JJ to 4.8" JJ tires.

At their widest they are 98 mm vs 112 mm. Casings are 95 mm vs 107 mm. Fit fine in the fork. Toward the front of the chain stay (where there is the least clearance), 4.0" had 13 mm clearance on each side, 4.8" has 4 mm clearance on each side.

Based on that, I wouldn't run wider rims with 4.8s on back. Will have to wait and see if there are any issues with mine.

Final photo shows 4.8 up front and 4.0 in back. They don't look that different in the photo, but it's pretty noticeable in person.


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

I should add that the frame above is 197 thru axle. My reason for getting that over 177 was so that I could run a 4.8 rear if I wanted. Looks like I'm ok with my narrower rims, but if I wasn't going to run wider than a 4.0" tire I'd probably go 177. I have had no pain or q-factor issues on the 197, just not sure what the advantage would be if I couldn't run a wider tire setup that I wanted.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

tjwil9488 said:


> Is that geometry more trail or XC and is the geometry designed for a 100mm bluto?


It's more trail and you can use a Bluto with this Niner 1.5" Integrated Crown Race + 5mm - J9RDO/J9C - XS & S Frames but don't know if 100mm might be too much. I've have a 80mm will see how it goes once the frame is here.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Finally got my wheels/tires together. 100mm carbon rims with ground control 4.6 tires. Ican Sn01 with 150mm fork and 197 TA rear. Plenty of clearance front and rear.


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Sidetracking the discussion slightly; I am building a 24" fatbike for my son. To save some weight I am considering slightly narrower tires. I already have 80mm rims. How narrow and lightweight tires could I fit on these? Would 3" or even 2.5" seat properly and not look strange? I can set them up with a tube or tubeless. Any tire suggestions in the 3-4" width range? Only found Specialized Ground control.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

You have to run them really high pressure to keep them seated. they also do look wired cause the tread is narrower than the rim. Your son will have to be careful not to run into stuff cause the rim will take the brunt of it


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Aren't Surly Nate's 3.8" tires? Hundreds if not thousands of those mounted to 80 mm rims.

Edit: most, if not all, of them are running low pressures.

Fred


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Mounted 4.6 Dunderbeast and Flowbeast tires on 90mm rims on SN01 frame last night. Tonnes of room in the front. It's a tight fit at the back at the chainstays (similar clearance as the pictures of the ground control tires in the post above), but I think it will work.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Going to bring up an old topic that I read on here earlier... Has anyone found a good quality derailleur hanger replacement for the Sn01?? Good thing I got a spare with the frame cause my bike just fell over in the house and bent the hanger like crazy...


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

bncrshr77 said:


> Going to bring up an old topic that I read on here earlier... Has anyone found a good quality derailleur hanger replacement for the Sn01?? Good thing I got a spare with the frame cause my bike just fell over in the house and bent the hanger like crazy...


Still looking for one myself. I have bent 2 hangers. I went as far as to order 4 additional ones to have just in case. That's how weak they are.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Found this today.

Contacted wheels mfg and sent them some pics of my sn01 derailleur and he says this is the one.. Should be available the 1st of the year.

Wheels Manufacturing Derailleur Hanger 280


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

bncrshr77 said:


> Found this today.
> 
> Contacted wheels mfg and sent them some pics of my sn01 derailleur and he says this is the one.. Should be available the 1st of the year.
> 
> Wheels Manufacturing Derailleur Hanger 280


LOL! That's the web site that I was going to suggest


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## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

Mine finally shipped. And now I get to wait!


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Anyone running the next sl with 190 spindle on an sn01 have a pic of how much clearance they ended up with between the preload adjuster and crank arm? I have about 2mm and just making sure thats fine before I ride today. Thanks.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

bncrshr77 said:


> Anyone running the next sl with 190 spindle on an sn01 have a pic of how much clearance they ended up with between the preload adjuster and crank arm? I have about 2mm and just making sure thats fine before I ride today. Thanks.
> View attachment 1033477


You shouldn't have any play! If you have any more spacer, install them but make sure your preload is set to its minimum prior of installing them. What's the length of the spindle since Race Face has 2 sizes?


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

I've got the 190mm spindle. I might have worded it wrong but I don't have any actual play in the crankset. I did start with the preload adjuster fully against the crank and with the spacers raceface recommended installed I had to turn the adjuster in about 2mm to take up the slack. 

Maybe I have 1mm spacers instead of the 1.5mm they say I need?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

So basically there's no play in the cranks once the preload is adjusted by finger then you should be OK, it just looks like there's a gap but might be the picture. I would use a thicker spacer if you have one. How's the chainline?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

bncrshr77 said:


> I've got the 190mm spindle. I might have worded it wrong but I don't have any actual play in the crankset. I did start with the preload adjuster fully against the crank and with the spacers raceface recommended installed I had to turn the adjuster in about 2mm to take up the slack.
> 
> Maybe I have 1mm spacers instead of the 1.5mm they say I need?


I used two spacers for each side of the bottom bracket and then one of the thin spacers that came with the crank on each side on the spindle. Make sure you tighten it down tight though. The first time I went out the crank arm came loose and I didn't have the tool needed in my multitool that I Carey on rides.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Thanks for the answers fellas! I haven't put the chain on yet but will be doing it this morning...

I used all 3 spacers that came with the bottom bracket... 2 on drive side and 1 on non drive side and then the 2 thin spacers that came with the crank on each side like you did... Looks like I need to get another bottom bracket spacer and use 4 like you did or roll with what I have.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Found another BB spacer and got everything installed. Sure seems like the chain has a hell of a bend to it when in my big 1x11 ring... Anyone have any issues with this?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

bncrshr77 said:


> Found another BB spacer and got everything installed. Sure seems like the chain has a hell of a bend to it when in my big 1x11 ring... Anyone have any issues with this?


That's normal with this cassette, your chainline should be straight around the 5-6 cogs which is how mine is set up.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Got it... She's all together and just took it for the maiden voyage around the yard!! Runs smooth but I think I need another spacer under the stem and that's why I left plenty of room on the first cut. 

Want to say thanks to everyone on here for posting how they set theirs up, pics, etc! I will post my build info and pics later this eve after a good ride!


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bncrshr77 said:


> Maybe I have 1mm spacers instead of the 1.5mm they say I need?


You need the 1.5's yes. Check what you got. I was sent 1.5's from RaceFace because they weren't in my kit.

Direct from RF:

BB spacers: Two drive side and one non.
Spindle: One 1.5 on each side.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Yep, I checked them with my calipers and they were the 1.5's... I ended up using two BB spacers on each side and a 1.5 on each side of the spindle. With this configuration I barely had to use the adjusting ring and I like the looks of it better.


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## Santanasan (Mar 12, 2013)

Hi there, Im 6"2 and not sure if to get the 21 or the 19.5.... ( FM 190)Leaning towards the 21 and use a short stem. My inseam is 35 inches, yes, long legs. Any thoughts on frame size?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Santanasan said:


> Hi there, Im 6"2 and not sure if to get the 21 or the 19.5.... ( FM 190)Leaning towards the 21 and use a short stem. My inseam is 35 inches, yes, long legs. Any thoughts on frame size?


6'2" here also but with 34" inseam. I've just bought an FM190 19.5" almost finished the build but not ridden yet. 
Built up with 65mm rims and Jumbo Jim 4.0's and this bike comes up *tall* for my tastes. Probably got 1" crotch clearance at best over the top tube . Which is kinda how my road bike fits. I usually run 3 - 4" clearance on my 26ers and 29er. I would like to add that I'm running a 60mm 17° stem with 15mm of spacers and a zero setback seatpost too . The reach feels fine to me (maybe a hair longer than I'm used to but nothing that can't be tuned by seat position). 
But already without even having been on the trail I'm thinking I should have gone for the 17" version.

I will say that IMHO the FM190 does seem to have quite a bit more stack to it that other similar frames. I have a couple of similar stems in differing rise and length that I'm probably going to try to put the final polish on the fit.

So all in all depending on which you prefer more stand over clearance or a longer reach is what I would base my decision on... . . . but they is taaall man 

Fat Biker


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## Santanasan (Mar 12, 2013)

andy586 said:


> Another FM190 build...


Hi Andy586,
Nice bike, is this the 19.5 frame? How tall are you? Im contemplating the 21 frame, 188 cm tall. Cheers!


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

What wheels did you go with on that bike?

Looks awesome by the way. My FM190 should be here soon.


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## Santanasan (Mar 12, 2013)

Johnny_T said:


> I finally got my FM190 complete and running. No major problems, it just took a while to get all parts and everything together. I built the DengFu FM190 with the DengFu 80mm Carbon rims with Chosen hubs. I have had 3 sets of Stan's wheels with Chosen hubs and never had a problem with them. I did a Shimano XT 1x10 drivetrain with a Wolftooth 42 cog and RaceFace Cinch turbine cranks. I used a Niner Carbon bar I already had and a Thomson seat post and Specialized seat. I put Bud/Lou tires set up tubeless (surprisingly easily on the Deng Fu rims). On my bathroom scale it was 26.4 pounds without pedals. I put a ton of Stan's in and I think with lighter summer tires I can be under 25 lbs. I used a few things I already had (bars, cassette, pedals, brakes) and spent about $2400 to get it going. Way cheap compared to any name brand options.
> 
> I did a short ride in the snow this morning and it was a lot of fun. Rides like a real mtn bike and plowed through everything I could find. I was afraid with the long chainstays I wouldn't be able to wheelie over things, but I still could.
> 
> ...


Nice!im 188 cm tall and thinking of getting the 19.5 , how tall are you and how does it fit?


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

First ride was saturday in the snow! Love the bike but I'm having an issue with the stem slipping. I've got an aluminum thomson stem and the ican carbon fork. I've got the friction paste on there as well and can't get it to stop slipping under hard torque. Anyone else having this issue?








Ok, finally getting around to posting my build list.

Frame: Large Ican SN01 and carbon fork... 197 rear, 150 front.
Headset: Ican
Wheels: 100mm hookles carbon from xmcarbonspeed.
Tires: Specialized GC 4.6 set up tubeless.
Crank: Raceface next SL with 190mm axle and 26T ring.
Shifter, cassette, rear d, chain: Sram XX1.
Brake system: Shimano XT M8000.
Bar: Raceface next
Seatpost: Thomson
Clamp: Thomson
Stem: Thomson
Seat: WTB Volt


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

My FM190 frame set slips as well. I had to bring the stem to 5mn with friction paste as well to stop it. Anything less and it slips on me. Just curious when it does slip does it make any funny sounds? Mine makes a popping sound like the bearing is not seating correctly, when it does slip you can also feel / hear it slide. Once I torque it back up its perfect till it randomly happens again. I find that I just keep a ritchey torque key in my pack and tighten it up every ride. The post and stem face plate. Normally I just set it and forget it but for what ever reason I am always having to readjust the torque back to 5mn. Anything less and it slips like crazy. 

Love the bike but that part is annoying, I dont mind when Im riding solo but it makes me stay away from it when riding with a group.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Are you guys using something like Loctite (243 from memory) on the screws?


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Nope, not using loctite on the screws. I've read about people greasing the screw threads but not using loctite?

And yes, it's a loud popping noise when it slips.


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

cmg71 said:


> Are you guys using something like Loctite (243 from memory) on the screws?


Im not but I might get some blue loctite and see if that helps


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

Anyone know if it is possible to run a 27.5 rim with a 2.8 tire on a F-FB02 / CS-010 / SN-03 / LTK010 / IP-010 with a 190mm rear? Or even a 29er wheel? (For summer season riding off course. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## joesrepsol (Mar 30, 2009)

*Love it!*



thrash907 said:


> just finished up my carbon fatty. Ended up weighing in at 25.2lbs. Sorry for the bad pic, just snapped a quick one after i wrapped up.
> 
> Specs below:
> 
> ...


super clean!!!!


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Kiddiboy said:


> Anyone know if it is possible to run a 27.5 rim with a 2.8 tire on a F-FB02 / CS-010 / SN-03 / LTK010 / IP-010 with a 190mm rear? Or even a 29er wheel? (For summer season riding off course.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will be running 650B Rims 50mm with 3.0" rear 3.25" front once I'm done building it since I just received the rims and frame today, yeh!


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

Nice!! Im pulling the trigger on a frameset very soon. Have had a chinese road bike for 2 years now and have had zero problems with it. Can't wait to swap my fatbike alu frame and wheels over to carbon and start the build. Looking forward to see your project come together! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Jukahia said:


> Yep, Peter delivered drawing.
> 
> It`s FSA No.42 integrated tapered 1-1/8'' - 1-1/2'' headset
> 
> ...


Does anybody know the part number for the cane creek 3mm lower crown adapter so the Rock Shox clears the frame?

Thanks


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

PeterXu said:


> Some pictures of CS-010 frame and complete CS-010 bike
> 
> And some 80mm wheels and 100mm wheels were shipped to the US today.
> 
> ...


Peter
That's the frame I purchase cause it was displaying with a Rock Shox but couldn't install mine cause it would contact the bottom tube if I would make a sharp turn or if I drop the bike and the wheel would sharply turn to the left or right.
How did you make it work since I did purchase your headset but there were no crown and does it wobble?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Jukahia said:


> Yep, Peter delivered drawing.
> 
> It`s FSA No.42 integrated tapered 1-1/8'' - 1-1/2'' headset
> 
> ...


Finally got the part number for the 3mm Cane Lower Race for the Bluto which is BAA0855K which is $11 thru cane or $20 thru most of the vendors on the web. This is for the IS52/40.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

By the way, was able to buy a 80mm Bluto with Motion Control and PushLoc for $389.00 thru Amazon. Talk about great price.


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Nash04 said:


> Peter
> That's the frame I purchase cause it was displaying with a Rock Shox but couldn't install mine cause it would contact the bottom tube if I would make a sharp turn or if I drop the bike and the wheel would sharply turn to the left or right.
> How did you make it work since I did purchase your headset but there were no crown and does it wobble?


Hi Nash04, almost current Chinese carbon HT fat bike frames are not compatible with Bluto fork directly, you need a spacer. Check the post here: 
My N019 Build, NASA themed!


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Anyone here running hookless carbon rims on their Fatbike?

I'm curious how's tubeless and cornering performance at low pressures (4-6 psi). I don't want any burping or tires rolling off the rim. 


Chris.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

PeterXu said:


> Hi Nash04, almost current Chinese carbon HT fat bike frames are not compatible with Bluto fork directly, you need a spacer. Check the post here:
> My N019 Build, NASA themed!


Thanks for the info but I don't really like his setup due to the fact his spacer is basically covering the whole straight tube so the bearing is resting on the tapered part of the tube which I would imagine that it's causing some wobble due to poor contact. I did order one thru his contact but ask to be 4mm instead of 13mm. Perhaps we need to update the frame so the Bluto could fit with no issue.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

krzysiekmz said:


> Anyone here running hookless carbon rims on their Fatbike? I'm curious how's tubeless and cornering performance at low pressures (4-6 psi). I don't want any burping or tires rolling off the rim.


 My girlfriend and I are both running Yishunbike/ACE 85mm hookless rims tubeless. We've both used pressures in that range on snow and sand with zero problems.


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Nash04 said:


> Thanks for the info but I don't really like his setup due to the fact his spacer is basically covering the whole straight tube so the bearing is resting on the tapered part of the tube which I would imagine that it's causing some wobble due to poor contact. I did order one thru his contact but ask to be 4mm instead of 13mm. Perhaps we need to update the frame so the Bluto could fit with no issue.


Yes, now we are designing a new HT fat bike frame which will be compatible with Bluto fork directly.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bncrshr77 said:


> First ride was saturday in the snow! Love the bike but I'm having an issue with the stem slipping. I've got an aluminum thomson stem and the ican carbon fork. I've got the friction paste on there as well and can't get it to stop slipping under hard torque. Anyone else having this issue?


The ICAN upper headset is junk. I ordered a cane creek 40 upper with the tall cap and all play and slipping is gone.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

bncrshr77 said:


> First ride was saturday in the snow! Love the bike but I'm having an issue with the stem slipping. I've got an aluminum thomson stem and the ican carbon fork. I've got the friction paste on there as well and can't get it to stop slipping under hard torque. Anyone else having this issue?
> View attachment 1034156


Is it an older Elite like this?:










IMO, that clamping mechanism isn't going to play well with carbon. The actual mechanism is a copy of older Kalloy stems that were around at the beginning of mountain biking, not that there's anything inherently bad about it for most mountain biking applications. Even for my carbon seatpost, I had to ditch a nice KCNC binder, color-matched to the rest of my bike, because it wasn't capable of enough clamping force (with carbon paste). While that style of stem works fine on metal steerers, I don't think it's the best for carbon. I think a traditional stem with full surface area would be the way to go IMO, but you may already be using that?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

PeterXu said:


> Yes, now we are designing a new HT fat bike frame which will be compatible with Bluto fork directly.


Great for future buyers, too bad for us but I'm glad that it's be done. The other issue that I noticed is the derailleur hanger setup is not the strongest and tends to bend easily, perhaps if it was secured better. That 6mm screw is not the strongest and even after I torque it down, it still causes the hanger to rotate until I slide the axle in.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

duggus said:


> The ICAN upper headset is junk. I ordered a cane creek 40 upper with the tall cap and all play and slipping is gone.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


sorry to hear that.


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

Nash04 said:


> Great for future buyers, too bad for us but I'm glad that it's be done. The other issue that I noticed is the derailleur hanger setup is not the strongest and tends to bend easily, perhaps if it was secured better. That 6mm screw is not the strongest and even after I torque it down, it still causes the hanger to rotate until I slide the axle in.


Hi Nash. I would like to know how your setup comes together regarding the CS-010 frame and a Bluto fork. If I can't run a Bluto without any issues on that frame I need to look at other alternatives.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Kiddiboy said:


> Hi Nash. I would like to know how your setup comes together regarding the CS-010 frame and a Bluto fork. If I can't run a Bluto without any issues on that frame I need to look at other alternatives.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will do. At this moment I'm waiting to receive the cane creek 3mm lower race and hopefully that will be enough. Can't be more than 4mm because the bearing won't sit properly on the steering tube. Should be here sometime this week since the company and I are both from NC.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Jayem said:


> Is it an older Elite like this?:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope, I've got the newer style clamp. I was originally torquing it to 4nm but found that the steerer tube bolts are supposed to be 5nm. I re-applied the friction paste and slapped it back together. Hoping maybe this will stop the issue.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

krzysiekmz said:


> Anyone here running hookless carbon rims on their Fatbike?
> 
> I'm curious how's tubeless and cornering performance at low pressures (4-6 psi). I don't want any burping or tires rolling off the rim.
> 
> Chris.


I'm running the 100mm hookless rims from xmcarbonspeed tubeless and haven't had and issues in snow. Hopefully I get a good singletrack run in on them tomorrow and I'll have a better idea.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

duggus said:


> The ICAN upper headset is junk. I ordered a cane creek 40 upper with the tall cap and all play and slipping is gone.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


I'm not sure how the Ican headset could have anything to do with the stem slipping on the steerer tube? The headset fits in there nice and tight and it hasn't budged at all. I might just try the cane creek one anyhow!


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bncrshr77 said:


> I'm not sure how the Ican headset could have anything to do with the stem slipping on the steerer tube? The headset fits in there nice and tight and it hasn't budged at all. I might just try the cane creek one anyhow!


Oops I read wrong, I though he said there was play between the headset and stem. Others have had issues with their stock headset including me so figured it was that.


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

Nash04 said:


> Will do. At this moment I'm waiting to receive the cane creek 3mm lower race and hopefully that will be enough. Can't be more than 4mm because the bearing won't sit properly on the steering tube. Should be here sometime this week since the company and I are both from NC.


I found a post earlier that said 3mm was enough on a IP-010 frame. This frame looks identical to the CS-010 frame so lets hope it works out. Do you have the 170mm or the 190mm rear? And what framesize do you have?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

fstfrd15 said:


> I have built a few of the IP-010 frames now so thought I'd share some info.
> -All are the new 12x190mm rear and brakes line up fine, cassette lock ring is close but does clear.
> -Bluto needs +3mm crown race that is available from Cane Creek and Surly. Otherwise compression knob will hit downtube
> -Race Face turbine cranks for 190mm rear fit great and chainline with single ring is good. Turbine Cinch with direct mount ring has bad chainline (too far out) but I think the Cinch with spindle for 170mm rear would clear and chainline would be good. Waiting for spindle to arrive to check.
> ...


Found this one Nash, regarding Bluto and crown race.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

duggus said:


> The ICAN upper headset is junk. I ordered a cane creek 40 upper with the tall cap and all play and slipping is gone.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


Could you order a cane creek 40 for the upper and lower? Id like to change out both and see if that stops the issue im having


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Well, the way it's going at this moment, I'm taken a break from trying to make this frame work, getting too frustrated trying to fit my rear wheel without damaging my frame anymore due to its width, yes, both the hub and frame are 190mm but the rotor doesn't line up properly and didn't even try to install it with the cassette since it was already a PIB with just the rotor. Given myself some time off to cool down.
Funny, I've over 40 years of experience with anything with wheels and jet engines and this is the first time that I get so frustrated trying to make it work.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

After a decent night sleep I decided to take some measurements even though I measured everything prior of the wheel being built and the axle and hub would slide easily into the frame so the frame is @ 190mm but noticed my axle was now 197mm ?!?!?! so I took the axle out from the hub and my free hub drop out which never did so prior of the wheel being built, looks like my wheel builder did something wrong and basically did not admit to it. Will take the hub back to BHS this weekend and hopefully they'll be able to determine the issue and fix it if possible and of course will let my LBS know of the issue. 

So except for the fact that the frame is a 190 TA which is rare since usually 190 are QR. There's nothing wrong with the frame. 

Forgive me for jumping the gun too fast last night and blaming the frame, if my thoughts would have been cleared, I should have realized that everything measured correctly prior. 

What's the old saying; better check twice the measurements and perhaps 3 times.


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

Sorry for your troubles, but good to know the problem is not with the frame. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

OK. I've read the last 50 pages of this thread over and over again. At this point I'm pretty confused as to which frame to buy. 

I'm leaning toward the 010 because of the slightly slacker HA (69)

School me on spacing. 170mm or 190mm? Is wider better? Why? Will this effect which bottom bracket I buy? 100mm or 120mm?

What about fork width?


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

gfowkes said:


> OK. I've read the last 50 pages of this thread over and over again. At this point I'm pretty confused as to which frame to buy.
> 
> I'm leaning toward the 010 because of the slightly slacker HA (69)
> 
> ...


You need to read some other threads, not this one over and over. Your questions have been argued to death on this forum. A simple search on your part will lead you to lots of opinions that will be identical in value to any new ones given in direct response to your question.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

gfowkes said:


> OK. I've read the last 50 pages of this thread over and over again. At this point I'm pretty confused as to which frame to buy.
> 
> I'm leaning toward the 010 because of the slightly slacker HA (69)
> 
> ...


If you gotta ask:

https://www.fezzari.com/fat-tire/kings-peak-fat-slx


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

sryanak said:


> You need to read some other threads, not this one over and over. Your questions have been argued to death on this forum. A simple search on your part will lead you to lots of opinions that will be identical in value to any new ones given in direct response to your question.


Gotcha. Good advice. Was hoping for some quick answers so I could order now, before heading off on a nice long 3-week Mexican vacation


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Kiddiboy said:


> Sorry for your troubles, but good to know the problem is not with the frame.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Brought the wheel in to BHS and they informed me there's a recall on those fatbike hubs due to they use a 197 shell and label it as a 190 so he's sending me an updated hub to see if it will fit and if so then he'll redo my wheel for free, yeh! 
Now FYI they were not the original people that built my wheel previously so it's not their fault for the issue but my LBS should have noticed it which I will bring up to them.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Kiddiboy said:


> Found this one Nash, regarding Bluto and crown race.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Received the 3mm Cane crown race and it's still contacting the bottom tube but only by a mm or so. I'm having a machinist build me a 4mm crown race and will see how that one goes. If the bottom of the steering tube would have been an extra 5mm straight at 52mm then I could make it work easily but if you go too high on the tube where it's tapered then it wobbles at the bottom.

Here's a picture


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## SilverBullet (Dec 5, 2008)

Been riding a 190 with 80mm carbon wheels and D5's. Not exactly sure what she weighs, but it feels lighter than my steel singlespeed.
Fun bike. I really dig the geometry - racy feeling, which is nice for a bike with tires that big - easy to take precise lines.
The only thing that I am worried about it breaking the carbon cheapo rims on some burly singletrack and my 220 lbs...guess we'll find out.

Overall, pretty damn impressed with the DengFu!


----------



## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

gfowkes said:


> OK. I've read the last 50 pages of this thread over and over again. At this point I'm pretty confused as to which frame to buy.
> 
> I'm leaning toward the 010 because of the slightly slacker HA (69)
> 
> ...


For rear spacing decide what tire size you want to run.

170 = 4"
190 =5"

The frame will dictate your BB.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

msedbaue said:


> For rear spacing decide what tire size you want to run.
> 
> 170 = 4"
> 190 =5"
> ...


You know you can run 4" inch tires on a 190 frame right? 190 gives you more options for tires but might require a longer chain stay. If you like the geometry of a 190 bike and don't mind the larger q factor, I would suggest getting the 190.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## scot_douglas (May 8, 2010)

Nash04 said:


> Received the 3mm Cane crown race and it's still contacting the bottom tube but only by a mm or so. I'm having a machinist build me a 4mm crown race and will see how that one goes. If the bottom of the steering tube would have been an extra 5mm straight at 52mm then I could make it work easily but if you go too high on the tube where it's tapered then it wobbles at the bottom.
> 
> Here's a picture


Could you use the FSA lower race extension like on my DD30?









The description of their H/S:
_*FSA NO.57E/62 semi Integrated internal upper cup, external lower cup w/5.3mm custom cone spacer*_


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

msedbaue said:


> For rear spacing decide what tire size you want to run.
> 
> 170 = 4"
> 190 =5"
> ...


Just to add onto this... I've got the Sn01 with 197 rear spacing and with 100mm rims the biggest tire I can fit is the specialized ground control 4.6... So rim width is a big part of tire size as well. I think there are guys running the Lou / Bud combo but you would have to research their rim width.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

For those that have upgraded to the cane creek headset did you keep the Ican compression plug or did you upgrade that as well?


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> You know you can run 4" inch tires on a 190 frame right? 190 gives you more options for tires but might require a longer chain stay. If you like the geometry of a 190 bike and don't mind the larger q factor, I would suggest getting the 190.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Yes... im very aware of this. Just trying to summarize. I suppose I could have gone into more detail, but there is already lots of that out there.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bncrshr77 said:


> For those that have upgraded to the cane creek headset did you keep the Ican compression plug or did you upgrade that as well?


The compression plug is fine, same thing with the lower. I just ordered the cane creak 40 upper with tall cap to reduce the number of spacers and I just think it looks better.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Nash04 said:


> Received the 3mm Cane crown race and it's still contacting the bottom tube but only by a mm or so. I'm having a machinist build me a 4mm crown race and will see how that one goes. If the bottom of the steering tube would have been an extra 5mm straight at 52mm then I could make it work easily but if you go too high on the tube where it's tapered then it wobbles at the bottom.
> 
> Here's a picture


I'm confused why that is a problem as shown? You are never going to turn that sharp.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

duggus said:


> I'm confused why that is a problem as shown? You are never going to turn that sharp.


True, but there's always that "what if" so I rather not take a chance of damaging the frame in case of it.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Well! I received my lower race yesterday which was built to my specs but realized afterwards that the Cane Creek 3mm+ is actually 4mm but still have contacts the bottom tube so will design some kind of aluminum guard and 3M it where it makes contact to protect the frame, also my Bluto does the remote control which is .5mm thicker than the manual mechanism.
I also added a 1mm washer under the crown which now the total is at 5mm and can't add more or else the bottom of the steering tube starts to wobble due to poor contact of the bearing on the tube since now it's contacting the straight portion of the tube which is 40mm so I don't know how other MTB were able to make it work without the wobble effect.

Here's a picture of what I did, I know it's not the best but at least it will save my frame.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

PeterXu said:


> Yes, now we are designing a new HT fat bike frame which will be compatible with Bluto fork directly.


Peter,
Let me know when you have design one and I might just purchase one or I might look at a 650B FS for future built.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Kiddiboy said:


> Anyone know if it is possible to run a 27.5 rim with a 2.8 tire on a F-FB02 / CS-010 / SN-03 / LTK010 / IP-010 with a 190mm rear? Or even a 29er wheel? (For summer season riding off course.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Since my 650B rear wheel is not ready yet, installed the front one onto my Fatboy and talk about weight and riding differences, much better even though I still like my 90mm 4.6 Fatboy wheel/tire combo.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Nash04 said:


> Here's a picture of what I did, I know it's not the best but at least it will save my frame.


 What you need is an adapter that fits into the frame, not the bearing, and accepts the bearing at the bottom. I guess you could think of it as a headtube extension.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> What you need is an adapter that fits into the frame, not the bearing, and accepts the bearing at the bottom. I guess you could think of it as a headtube extension.


I thought about that but to accept a 52mm bearing the adapter would need to be 56mm but the frame is only 52mm unless there are other bearings that would have a different top OD but would still fit the crown race which I didn't find any.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

The adapter just needs to be the same ID and OD as the head tube, so you can use the same bearing that you're using now. The top of it should be dimensioned and shaped like the bearing so it will fit tightly in the head tube.


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

Nash04 said:


> Here's a picture of what I did, I know it's not the best but at least it will save my frame.


why not just file down that side of the blue knob? why the heck is there 4mm of material above the cable anyways?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

True but these are usually installed by the manufacture and can't find any on the web that offer it.

So I sent an email to RWC and hopefully they'll me out.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

byknuts said:


> why not just file down that side of the blue knob? why the heck is there 4mm of material above the cable anyways?


The 4mm is the total of the blue knob's width. Could try it mill it down by 2 mm, they should be easy to replace if need be.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Nash04 said:


> The 4mm is the total of the blue knob's width. Could try it mill it down by 2 mm, they should be easy to replace if need be.


 It looks like what you need is a chamfer on the knob that matches the angle of the downtube. You need a mm or two of clearance to compensate for fork flex.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Thinking about switching that knob with my other Bluto knob which is a manual lock and should clear it since it's not as wide or else might just purchase another lockout and mill that one down.


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## Masul (Dec 6, 2015)

*Chinese carbon HT-FM366*

Hi guys,

I am currently building up on of these frames, its been handpainted by the guys i got it from but its this chinese frame HT-FM366,

Fat Carbon Bike Frame of Internal Cable Routing in 15.5? 17.5? 19? 20.5? HT-FM366 of carbonfiberbike

Heres sum pics of it






,








Well i am trying to run 2x front, and not sure wich direct mount adapter would do the trick?! Wolftooth Components? Problem Solvers?

Does any of u guys run 2x on a chinese frame? Any experience?

Thanks, later


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

Masul said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am currently building up on of these frames, its been handpainted by the guys i got it from but its this chinese frame HT-FM366,
> 
> ...


Well the Wolf Tooth one is for 190mm rear end bikes, so if you have a 190mm rear on that frame, then you can use the one from WT.

I run 1x so I can't help you much further.


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

Masul said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am currently building up on of these frames, its been handpainted by the guys i got it from but its this chinese frame HT-FM366,
> 
> ...


Where did you buy your frame from? Honorteam or somewhere else? How much did it cost?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Masul (Dec 6, 2015)

Got it on ebay heres the link

Fatbike-Rahmen oovis »pinguis«; Vollcarbon nur ca. 1350 g bei RH 17,5"/45 cm | eBay

Cost almost twice what it would have costed to get it straight from china but i dont have to deal with import and customs tax and so on....

And i had it delivered within a week.....
The guy who sells them has a road race team and sells bycicle clothes his brand name is oovis. Theres also a website i believe.....


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Do you incurr any import duty/taxes from other European countries ?

Planet X has this frameset in stock for €611(£449)
Even if you don't like the paint (which I dont) of the Hesperus it still leaves nearly €800 for paint/tax/import duty out of the €1400(£1100) this frameset seems to be listed at !

Hesperus









Seems a high price to pay when it can be purchased from a brick and mortar/reputable on-line store IMHO.

Curious as to why you chose the option you have over something like this ? Advantages ????

Fat Biker


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## Masul (Dec 6, 2015)

Oh man, i wish i wouldnt have seen this offer....÷( lol

Yeah, ur right, that sounds like a heck of a lot better deal than i got! But since its a 50% sale offer, it could be that when i bought the frame(2. November) the prices might have been the same......dunno...

Thats a bad ass offer from planet x, worth considering just getting it as a back up frame.......if it wasnt for the upcoming snowboard season($$$).....

Thanks for showing it still, and hey i havent even ridden this frame yet......got a kona wo for the mud!


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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

Will Snowshoe XXL on hundies fit any of the Chinese carbon fatties?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

campykid said:


> Will Snowshoe XXL on hundies fit any of the Chinese carbon fatties?


What's the width? My 4.6" ground control fit.


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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

My understanding (I don't own them) is 5.2"


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Wow! They're wide, I might have 1/8" of play on both sides.


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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

They are monsters (check out the Snowshoe 2XL thread for pix) and my understanding is there are only a couple of frames (Blackborrow and 1 other) that will fit. Wondering if anybody tried fitting in a Chinese carbon.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

For those who have a TA with a non-bonded nut. Basically the nut is not secured to the frame.

Noticed the hexagon portion of the nut that I received with the frame would contact the frame when applying some torque which over time would damage the frame so I had machinist make me one that was longer ( a bit too long but that's my fault) which wouldn't contact the frame.

He does great work and if you need anything made, just send him the measurements and description of the item and if he will make it if he can and his prices are great.

He has a web page on ebay which is listed as mtbtools on eBay

Here are some pictures, the black one is the original and the silver one is what he made to my specs which is a tad too long but easy to cut down.


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## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

Made myself something to tow with the Chinese fatty. Total cost zero: scrap wood, a few screws, and some free skis from a LBS.


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## cfta (Jun 1, 2011)

Deephaven said:


> Made myself something to tow with the Chinese fatty. Total cost zero: scrap wood, a few screws, and some free skis from a LBS.


Nice job! Brings back many memories. Every time I feel sorry for myself on a steep climb, I remind self that it is never as hard as it was when kids were torturing me with that contraption.
Some advice, assuming that is, in fact, meant to be a rugrat hauling device: establish a 200g toy limit, now, before it is too late. One medium sized Tonka truck will negate every $ you spent on that carbon.


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

That's great! Did the Burley adapter for your axle fit on your bike without any issues? I can't get my adapter for my chariot/Thule to fit on my FM190. I bored out the hole to accommodate the 12mm but the axle isn't long enough to engage the thread on the other side with the added space of the adapter on the axle. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Nash04 said:


> I thought about that but to accept a 52mm bearing the adapter would need to be 56mm but the frame is only 52mm unless there are other bearings that would have a different top OD but would still fit the crown race which I didn't find any.


Having an adapter made at this moment from MTBTools which would add about 5mm above the bearing which should lower it enough to where it will still have good contact with the housing and be low enough where it won't contact the frame and no wobble. Should have it here by the end of next week. Will post pictures once installed.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Here are some picture of the adapter that Chris made me and it looks sweet.


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## Deephaven (Oct 29, 2015)

Bunyan said:


> That's great! Did the Burley adapter for your axle fit on your bike without any issues? I can't get my adapter for my chariot/Thule to fit on my FM190. I bored out the hole to accommodate the 12mm but the axle isn't long enough to engage the thread on the other side with the added space of the adapter on the axle.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sorry for the delay, I wanted to try it out first. Just got the bike built up a couple days ago. This was the only answer I could find:



Steel Burley adapter on a Robert Axle


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

Thanks for posting. I was going to try and see if I could get it to work before dropping $50 on the adapter axle but I think you're right. This is the way to go. 
Thx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Nash04 said:


> Here are some picture of the adapter that Chris made me and it looks sweet.


Installed the adapter and all is now good. You can get in touch with Chris at MTBTools from ebay if you need one.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Has anybody had a hard time aligning the rear caliper? I aligned mine as good as I could but there's still a slight bind, basically you can hear the rotor slightly binding on the pads, think my rotor might be warp even though it's brand new.


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## bikeguy0 (Aug 5, 2007)

You may need to face the brake caliper mount on the frame. You would need a park tool dt5.1 or 5.2 or similar. Shops will have it but not common for home mechanics. I have one but it is about 250 bucks. I have 8 bikes and build them myself which is why I picked it up. 

Check to see if you have a paint blob on the mounts which may be canting the caliper when you righted it down. If so you could carefully use a file and see if you can get it flat. Be careful and take only a little bit of material off at a time then recheck the caliper.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

So I installed another rotor and the issue disappeared. Now I need to see if they'll refund me since this was its second ride.

Thanks for the info.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

*Which Frames Accommodate Lou on 100mm rims?*

Which Chinese carbon frames will accommodate a Lou on 100mm rims? I'm hoping to hear from people that have actually tried that, as the manufacturer's specs sometimes mislead. I ordered an ICAN SN01 expecting it would accommodate a 4.8 tire, but the Lou doesn't fit on a 90mm rim. it rubs on the chainstay. It will accommodate a Lou on a narrower rim -- say a 65mm -- but I'm hoping to find a frame that will fit wide rubber on a wide rim.

I've searched this thread and discussion group and Google for an answer. Strangely, a thread search for "Lou" turns up no results, even though I know there are multiple posts in this thread on that topic.

I read that OzzyBMX had success with a Dengfu FM-190 and a Lou mounted on 90mm Nextie rim (about 10mm clearance on all sides). Just wondering if anyone went the next step and was able to get a Lou or equivalently wide tire to fit on a 100mm rim in a Chinese frame, without frame rub or trimming tire knobs, and what the frame was.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

I with you man! I have the 100mm rims and the 4.8 isn't even close to fitting on my SN01... Wish Ican would fix that!


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I don't have buds but I have Dillinger 5's on 100mm and I have about .5-.75 inch of clearance on all sides. I am riding a dengfu fm190.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

I believe the Fezzari King's Peak is the same thing as the SN01. Here's Lou on an 80mm:

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fezzari-fat-kings-peak-lou-bud-rear-tire-988359.html


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## allenc (Dec 14, 2015)

ray.vermette said:


> Which Chinese carbon frames will accommodate a Lou on 100mm rims? I'm hoping to hear from people that have actually tried that, as the manufacturer's specs sometimes mislead. I ordered an ICAN SN01 expecting it would accommodate a 4.8 tire, but the Lou doesn't fit on a 90mm rim. it rubs on the chainstay. It will accommodate a Lou on a narrower rim -- say a 65mm -- but I'm hoping to find a frame that will fit wide rubber on a wide rim.
> 
> I've searched this thread and discussion group and Google for an answer. Strangely, a thread search for "Lou" turns up no results, even though I know there are multiple posts in this thread on that topic.
> 
> I read that OzzyBMX had success with a Dengfu FM-190 and a Lou mounted on 90mm Nextie rim (about 10mm clearance on all sides). Just wondering if anyone went the next step and was able to get a Lou or equivalently wide tire to fit on a 100mm rim in a Chinese frame, without frame rub or trimming tire knobs, and what the frame was.


If I remember correctly, Peter from CarbonSpeed said their N019 frameset could accept 5.0'' tires on their 100mm rims? Back to check out previous posts


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

ray.vermette said:


> Which Chinese carbon frames will accommodate a Lou on 100mm rims? I'm hoping to hear from people that have actually tried that, as the manufacturer's specs sometimes mislead. I ordered an ICAN SN01 expecting it would accommodate a 4.8 tire, but the Lou doesn't fit on a 90mm rim. it rubs on the chainstay. It will accommodate a Lou on a narrower rim -- say a 65mm -- but I'm hoping to find a frame that will fit wide rubber on a wide rim.


The Dengfu FM-190 will have plenty of frame space in the rear triangle with a 100mm Clown Shoe and a Lou. The only thing you need to worry about is chain clearance on the tire in the biggest rear cog (ie you need a wide enough Q-Factor on your cranks).

By the way, I have a few Dengfu framesets (frame+fork+stem+bars+seatpost+collar+front&rear TAs) for sale on theproscloset.com. I ordered a few extras since I was ordering a couple anyway for friends. Thought people would rather buy them from a place in the US instead of dealing with international shipping delays and expense. DM me if any questions.


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## elerner61 (Mar 18, 2004)

Hi. Can someone tell me if all FM190 frames are the same (aside from size)? I have an FM190 that my shop built up for me. The label on the frame says FM-190-17.5-BSA-UD ZH-2014-10-0005. I am trying to source a replacement rear derailleur hanger (a spare). My shop has been trying to get one but it is taking a while. Dengfu bikes emailed me last night (great communication, btw) but said since I didn't (may not have) bought the frame from them their derailleur hanger may not fit. Where are people getting their rear der. hangers from? Thanks.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I would ask your shop who they purchased it from. i would guess they are close and that Dengfu is covering their butt by saying it "might fit" so personally i would just buy one from them (my FM190 is a Dengfu). the other thing you could do is use the existing one to match up to an aftermarket manufacturer. my LBS has a big poster that you can hold up an existing hanger to and match it up. then they will order it for you.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

You are having the same issue as I am with my CS-010 Frame, Wheels Manufacturing has one that is near perfect but not 100% You could get in touch with Peter from xmcarbonspeed which he also carries the FM-190. Do you have a picture of it?


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

You guys should push Dengfu to send along a couple extra hangers for future buyers. When I ordered my SN01 from ICAN I got 2 extra hangers with the frame.


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

Where are you located? I have an extra Dengfu hanger I ordered you can try on for size if you're in the NOVA area. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## elerner61 (Mar 18, 2004)

Bunyan said:


> Where are you located? I have an extra Dengfu hanger I ordered you can try on for size if you're in the NOVA area.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks for the offer, but I'm not near you. I've been emailing with Vivian at Miracle Bike (good communicator, but only during China hours) and she says they have the part, $12 shipped. I just palpal'd her the funds, let's see how this works out.


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Looking for one of these frames from a reputable builder that has internal routing for the rear derailleur cable and at least the rear brake hose.

Internal fork routing for the front fork would be an awesome bonus but not necessary. 

Do any of the builders make one like this?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

TomFL said:


> Looking for one of these frames from a reputable builder that has internal routing for the rear derailleur cable and at least the rear brake hose.
> 
> Internal fork routing for the front fork would be an awesome bonus but not necessary.
> 
> Do any of the builders make one like this?


Basically every frame will have what you are asking for. Internal fork routing I have not come across but almost all have internal cable routing for front/rear derailleur and rear brake. Have you looked at the manufacturers websites? many have pics of the entrance and exits of the routing holes. My Dengfu has internal guide tubes so you didn't have to fish the cable around just push it and it came out the other end.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

There are quite a few reputable builders; Dengfu, ICAN, XMCARBONSPEED, I might be missing a few. 
As for front fork routing? Don't know why you would need that but I didn't order one with the front fork so I don't know but as for the rear, they all have some frames setup with rear internal.


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## grimace (Feb 3, 2004)

duggus said:


> Shouldn't be any creaking. Try plumbers Teflon tape on the bb threads. Also, apply a little park lube to the inside of the thru axle mounts on the frame, mine devolved a creak on peddling and I narrowed it down to that. As far as the headset, the free one they send has a junk top half. I kept the bottom and got a cane creek 40 top and all has been nice and tight.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


Thanks for the tip on lubing the thru axle mounts. You have restored my sanity.

I built up my SN01 last winter while I was waiting for winter that never came. Got the urge to hit up this thread last week and I'd have to say it's a little bit longer

No creaks until a month ago. Only creaked under power. Tried re torquing the BB. That helped some, but a PITA with the RACE FACE wrench/torque wrench combo. Re torqued the cinch bolt, no difference. Re torqued the spindle, no difference. Seat post, stem, handlebar, no difference. Removed rear rack, no difference. Tightened rear rack, no difference.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Hello, can anybody point me to a review of the SN01 or can you reply with a brief review? I really like the geometry, it's affordable, and it seems like it would be great for the things I want to do...but searching this thread hasn't yielded many first hand feedback type posts. Anything would be appreciated.


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## thebionicman (Mar 23, 2015)

sandwich said:


> Hello, can anybody point me to a review of the SN01 or can you reply with a brief review? I really like the geometry, it's affordable, and it seems like it would be great for the things I want to do...but searching this thread hasn't yielded many first hand feedback type posts. Anything would be appreciated.


I have had mine for about a year. I really like the geometry for riding. Seems to be more lively than some of the units I test rode with longer chainstays. If I were to do it again I would look at the SN03 so you could run the less Q factor and a Surly Lou would fit in the back with no shaving of the tire.


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## GREBNET (Jan 15, 2014)

Ok I jumped in. Now I need help.
Just ordered CS-N019 fat frame , 100 mm wheels with 150x15 front and 197x12 rear with SRAM XX1 hubs , from Xiamen carbon speed
Frame has 100 mm bottom bracket 
Am planning on 1x11, XX1 cassette and rear derailleur.

I need help on crank ,spindle size for good chain line .?
Brakes shimano/SRAM ? 

Any other recommendations welcome. This is my first jump into building a bike. 
Thank you


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

sandwich said:


> Hello, can anybody point me to a review of the SN01 or can you reply with a brief review? I really like the geometry, it's affordable, and it seems like it would be great for the things I want to do...but searching this thread hasn't yielded many first hand feedback type posts. Anything would be appreciated.


I think there are quite a few posts from happy people, if not all. I've had mine since last March so coming up on a year. I'm a fat ass by riding standards at 225. It has held up like the day I got it. I've had nothing but compliments from people who have ridden it about the geo, how light it is, how fun it is.



Flucod said:


> Had one for a couple of months and it rides great, geo is perfect for me.
> 
> Do wish it had more tire clearance, the Kenda Juggernaut 4.5 is OK but anything bigger would not fit.


I've been running the 45nrth Flow and Dunder which are wider. They fit perfectly on the 90mm rims, nearly as wide as bud/lou but with better rolling and more agile.



thebionicman said:


> I have had mine for about a year. I really like the geometry for riding. Seems to be more lively than some of the units I test rode with longer chainstays. If I were to do it again I would look at the SN03 so you could run the less Q factor and a Surly Lou would fit in the back with no shaving of the tire.


The SN03 has a 190 rear end and a 100 BB compared to the 197/120 of the SN01, so not sure how that would fit Lou on a 100 over the SN01.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

*Regarding SN01 Reviews*

I mounted a Lou on a 90mm rim on an SN01. The knobs touched the chainstays. 
I went with Flow and Dunder instead. The Dunder has about 5-10mm clearance at the chainstays.

Other than the clearance issue, no complaints for the SN01. It's fun to ride and you can buy it as a semi-assembled complete build from ICAN, which is convenient if you don't have the time or inclination to build from scratch.


----------



## Mdp3 (Jan 27, 2016)

Aside from the kits offered by the Chinese manufactures, has anyone found a full group set package from a name brand company that will fit any of these frames? Or do we need to source parts piecemeal?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I am not aware of any company that makes a full group for fat bikes sram might have one but most of the time the crankset is different from the rest of the drivetrain. regardless of the frame.


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## GREBNET (Jan 15, 2014)

How long is the spindle if I want to use a race face crank with a flipped single chain ring and get a good chain line ? 1x11 SRAM XX1
Race face sheet says RF 169 , is that 169 mm ? And then use spacers to fill in. ?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I think RF only have 100 and 120. 100 will work in the 170/177mm rear end frames and some 190/197mm rear end frames. This will give better chain line for lower gears (big cogs in back) but may cause tire clearance issues. You may also have crank arm/chain stay clearance issues. If you go 120mm spindle (what I have on FM190) you get better tire and chain stay clearance but less optimal lower gear chain line. 

Personally I don't even notice the Q factor crap cause after about ten minutes of riding my body figures it out and don't hit things. However if you are more sensitive to this then go 100mm and hope you don't have tire or chain stay issues.


----------



## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

I have the 100mm on my 190mm rear end bike and have GC 4.6" tire and don't have any issue with clearance but am using Absolute Black Oval installed in reverse and works like a charm.
The 100mm does use the 169mm Race Face spindle.


----------



## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

100mm or 120mm refer to the BB shell width of the frame. The SN-01 has a 120mm BB which I think is pretty rare. However it takes the same standard spindle, although I can't remember the length, as a 100mm BB frame but you use 20mm fewer, 10mm less on each side, in spacers between the crank and BB.
I think there is a way to use a shorter spindle on a 100mm BB frame by reversing the chainring and maybe not using the spacers? However with my SN-01 I don't think that is possible though I wish it was. The wide Q factor is a little annoying. I'd like my next frame to have a 100mm BB but more rear tire clearance if those can go together. It would probably require some skinny chainstays.


----------



## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

Cross posted from the FM190 build thread as it is relevant to this thread as well.









It's all fun and games until Dad cracks his frame.





















Was riding today and heard a loud crack. You know, one of those loud cracks that lets you know that something really isn't right. Turns out the seat tube was not happy. Spiral crack starting from the top water bottle boss.

Flat trails with some snow and ice, nothing fancy or gnarly. The frames are inexpensive, but I do expect more than four months out of them.

RIP FM190 
09-05-2015 to 01-30-2016

I have e-mailed Dengfu and will see what they say.

-Nate


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Wonder if the cold weather had anything to do with the carbon cracking, that's too bad but am glad that no one got hurt. Dengfu should warranty it.


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

I don't think that cold would affect it, and I wouldn't even have called it cold out!

It ranged from -6 C to -3 C (21F to 27 F) during the outing. Incredible end of January weather for Saskatchewan.

I haven't seen much about DengFu and frame warranty, but what I have seen has been positive so I am optimistic. Can't remember if they reply on weekends, so it may be a few days until I hear something back.

-Nate



Nash04 said:


> Wonder if the cold weather had anything to do with the carbon cracking, that's too bad but am glad that no one got hurt. Dengfu should warranty it.


----------



## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

Flawless Cowboy said:


> I don't think that cold would affect it, and I wouldn't even have called it cold out!
> 
> It ranged from -6 C to -3 C (21F to 27 F) during the outing. Incredible end of January weather for Saskatchewan.
> 
> ...


For your information Nate is the Chinese New Year holidays started and a reply from Chinese companies these days may take some more time. Just so you know.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Kiddiboy said:


> For your information Nate is the Chinese New Year holidays started and a reply from Chinese companies these days may take some more time. Just so you know.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I believe it runs through the end of the week, like the 8th or something.

As kiddiboy mentioned, be pleasantly surprised if you get a response before then.


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

Yeah I realized this morning that it was around Chinese New Year and was possibly the worst time to break a frame. But that is out of my, and Deng Fu’s, hands. I can't begrudge anyone taking holidays! Even my LBS shut for over a week to start this year off. Will update whenever I eventually hear back. 

-Nate

Sent from my Lenovo TAB S8-50F using Tapatalk


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## GREBNET (Jan 15, 2014)

Carbon Wheels from Peter at Carbon Speed.
Can anyone tell me if I ordered Hubs for SRAM , is that the XD Driver so I can use XX1 Cassette ?


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Flucod said:


> Anyone using the Jumbo Jim 4.8's on their SN01? Curious how much room you have or if they will fit.


I posted some pics earlier in this thread. 4.8 will just fit on a 65 mm rim. I doubt that it would work on an 80+ mm rim.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Took the CS-010 out yesterday and the bike ran great except for the common creaking which I will add some more carbon compound and need to swap my cranks to 170 cause I noticed a few times where they would contact the logs. So far so good.


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Has anyone else broken a China carbon fatty frame or is it pretty limited to this one rider?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

They break at the same rate as non-china frames. All frames have a chance to break and no one company is more susseptabke than another. The same people making the cheap China frames are the ones making everyone else's stuff too. 

Let me also say that a "fake" or counterfeit frame is a different story. If you buy a frame from Ican or xmcarbon they will hold up just like any name brand. Under normal use.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Jefflinde said:


> They brake at the same rate as non-china frames.


Thanks for the update. Glad to hear they stop pretty good.

:thumbsup:

Fat Biker


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Jefflinde said:


> They brake at the same rate as non-china frames. All frames have a chance to break and no one company is more susseptabke than another. The same people making the cheap China frames are the ones making everyone else's stuff too.
> 
> Let me also say that a "fake" or counterfeit frame is a different story. If you buy a frame from Ican or xmcarbon they will hold up just like any name brand. Under normal use.


Jeff, thanks for the reply. I understand that, and as we all know 99% of all carbon bikes are Chinese anyway.

I've recently broken two carbon fat bike frames from a big-name manufacturer. I will say that the warranty is excellent and frames were replaced immediately. However, I have a few buddies on China carbon ones and they've not broken theirs. I'm about to get my wife a fat bike frame and am heavily considering a China one, but am looking for more info on reliability, moreso than I've experiences with the few I've seen here locally.

I'd just like to avoid a problem brand if that makes sense...? If there is such a thing.

Thanks


----------



## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Totally makes sense. I am not sure of a problem brand but there are ones I would recommend, xmcarbon, Ican and Dengfu. There are lots of users on here with frames from these three. I think that gives a pretty good sampling of their quality and failure rates. Also there are some experiences with these companies warranties. All of them have been acceptable from everything I have read.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Flawless Cowboy said:


> Cross posted from the FM190 build thread as it is relevant to this thread as well.
> 
> View attachment 1046469
> 
> ...


That really sucks. I hope Dengfu stand by their product and get you a new frame.


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Jefflinde said:


> Totally makes sense. I am not sure of a problem brand but there are ones I would recommend, xmcarbon, Ican and Dengfu. There are lots of users on here with frames from these three. I think that gives a pretty good sampling of their quality and failure rates. *Also there are some experiences with these companies warranties. All of them have been acceptable from everything I have read*.


That's even better news right there. Everything can break, that we've all learned. Glad to hear there is also a warranty that one can rely one.

Thanks for the helpful info. Posts like this make the forum worth reading.


----------



## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

My Sn01 is holding up just fine... Doing the Silverton Whiteout this weekend on it if anyone is close and wants to check one out before diving in.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Bringing this up again but I just got my Wheels MFG hanger 280 in the mail and sure as **** I slipped on the ice, fell over with my Sn01 and bent the **** out of the stock hanger. Lucky for me the 280 seems to be an exact match or pretty damn close! They are proud of it with the price but I'm guessing it will be a much better metal.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

bncrshr77 said:


> Bringing this up again but I just got my Wheels MFG hanger 280 in the mail and sure as **** I slipped on the ice, fell over with my Sn01 and bent the **** out of the stock hanger. Lucky for me the 280 seems to be an exact match or pretty damn close! They are proud of it with the price but I'm guessing it will be a much better metal.


Did you try ordering another one from ICAN? Even can from Amazon. Man the Wheels MFG hanger at almost $40 seems excessive, especially for a part that is supposed to bend. It does look nicely made though. I was glad ICAN sent 2 in the box, because I have bent one already too. Just a slight bend and it still worked, but threw the new on one.


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## scot_douglas (May 8, 2010)

Nash04 said:


> Wonder if the cold weather had anything to do with the carbon cracking, that's too bad but am glad that no one got hurt. Dengfu should warranty it.


FWIW, Trek told me I wouldn't hurt my old OCLV frames riding as low as -30C.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

bncrshr77 said:


> Bringing this up again but I just got my Wheels MFG hanger 280 in the mail and sure as **** I slipped on the ice, fell over with my Sn01 and bent the **** out of the stock hanger. Lucky for me the 280 seems to be an exact match or pretty damn close! They are proud of it with the price but I'm guessing it will be a much better metal.


Be careful getting a very strong hanger. If your stiff hanger tears those little screws out of your frame you will not be a happy camper.


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## scot_douglas (May 8, 2010)

sryanak said:


> Be careful getting a very strong hanger. If your stiff hanger tears those little screws out of your frame you will not be a happy camper.


I think it'll have to tear out one (rather large) 12mm "screw" before it gets to the others.


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## robertbbr (Apr 18, 2006)

I'm trying to upgrade the headset on my XMI No 19. The stock Neco headset loosens on every ride. Does anyone know a good upgrade from Cane Creek or FSA?
Thanks in advance


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Loosens? It's a drop in headset. You SHOULD be able to pull it out by hand after removing the stem. Very easily. Do you mean your stem, or maybe the internal star/compression nut?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

robertbbr said:


> I'm trying to upgrade the headset on my XMI No 19. The stock Neco headset loosens on every ride. Does anyone know a good upgrade from Cane Creek or FSA?
> Thanks in advance





Le Duke said:


> Loosens? It's a drop in headset. You SHOULD be able to pull it out by hand after removing the stem. Very easily. Do you mean your stem, or maybe the internal star/compression nut?
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


As Le Duke states, it's not the headset, but rather your clamping / preload adjustment.

I use carbon compound under my stem clamps to improve stem clamping grip on the steerers, particularly my carbon ones.


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## robertbbr (Apr 18, 2006)

The tolerances on the $15 headset are pretty poor. The clamping/preload is done perfectly and after every other ride it loosens. If anyone knows the cane creek headset size for a No 19 (I think it is IS42/52) let me know!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

How does a drop-in headset loosen?

It is, by definition, "loose". It only gets tight when you tighten the top cap/star nut assembly. It has angular contact bearings, and each bearing is chamfered, so they each compress into the frame under load. They self-center, too. So unless your head tube is ovalized, or the bearing is ovalized, something else is going on.

It's a "standard" 1 1/8" top and 1 1/2" bottom, BTW. 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## robertbbr (Apr 18, 2006)

What size headset? Cane Creek 40 IS42/52?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

robertbbr said:


> What size headset? Cane Creek 40 IS42/52?


That's the one I used and haven't had any problems with it;
Cane Creek 40 IS42/IS52 Tapered Headset - All-Star Bike Shops, Inc.

Your LBS should carry it.


----------



## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

The wife's getting pretty antsy, Spring is coming, just dropped the price on those extra FM190 framesets I bought from Dengfu to $649 ... 3 left.

New Home items in The Pros Closet store on eBay!

frame+fork+thru axles+hanger+stem+headset+bars+seatpost+collar

No international paypal fee, much cheaper than shipping from China.

I've got about 600 miles on mine and still lovin' it.


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## dlaba (Feb 5, 2016)

revelcru said:


> The wife's getting pretty antsy, Spring is coming, just dropped the price on those extra FM190 framesets I bought from Dengfu to $649 ... 3 left.


Good morning, all. I just registered here (after lurking around and reading 12,000 fat bike threads....great stuff).

I pulled the trigger on the 19.5 from revelcru's post above.

Now to find some wheels and cranks and.....

Let the games begin!

-dl


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Flucod said:


> Anyone know if a Knard 4.7 fits in the rear of a SN01, tried the JJ and it too tight (not by much though. Currently running 4.5 Juggernauts and just looking for a faster rolling tire with the same volume.


Surprised the JJ didn't fit. What size rim are you using?


----------



## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Flucod said:


> How do you like that combo?


You mean the Flowbeist and Dunderbeist? Good, but the only other fatbike tires I've ridden on are the 4.0 Maxxis Mammoth that came with my bike, so I have little experience to base a good assessment on.

They set up easy tubeless. The Dunderbeist failed at the bead (known problem -- see thread on this topic). LBS gave me a replacement which I've been running with a tube and it's holding up fine.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

gi02sl said:


> I posted some pics earlier in this thread. 4.8 will just fit on a 65 mm rim. I doubt that it would work on an 80+ mm rim.


Enough room to compensate for a little tire expansion as a result of tubeless setup and any mud buildup while running them in the spring and summer?


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Our trails are closed when muddy, so I'm not sure. With the existing clearance and my riding I have not had any issues.


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

Heard back form Dengfu about my cracked frame last week after they reopened from the Chinese New Year holiday. Replies were prompt and a new frame is being sent out as a warranty replacement.

-Nate


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Flawless Cowboy said:


> Heard back form Dengfu about my cracked frame last week after they reopened from the Chinese New Year holiday. Replies were prompt and a new frame is being sent out as a warranty replacement.
> 
> -Nate


good to hear they are standing behind their product and good to hear you are getting a new frame Nate.


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## drwittcop (May 23, 2008)

Has anyone here built up an ICan SN02 Frame?


----------



## 34henry3w (Dec 11, 2010)

hey guys I was hoping for some advice on the fm190

I know that both dengfu and xmcarbon make it, but I see that peterxu from xm cabron has been banned from this forum...can someone explain why? 

I am 6'7 245 so I feel that the fm190 is my only option (640mm eff tt)...unless anyone has other suggestions?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Wow! That's news to me since I've been dealing with them since last year but haven't this year.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I went with the Deng Fu frame because some one has posted that it had more clearance in the back for wider tires. Not sure if that is true but there is a ton of room in the back. Also i think it is slightly less expensive. For other items Peter has always been very high compared to other Chinese vendors.

just my $.02



34henry3w said:


> hey guys I was hoping for some advice on the fm190
> 
> I know that both dengfu and xmcarbon make it, but I see that peterxu from xm cabron has been banned from this forum...can someone explain why?
> 
> I am 6'7 245 so I feel that the fm190 is my only option (640mm eff tt)...unless anyone has other suggestions?


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## Archangel6 (Sep 16, 2008)

Flucod said:


> 80mm , knobs rub on the chainstays, fine on the seatstays.


I had the same issue running a 4.8" JJ on an 80mm Mulefut initially, but tried a different JJ and the issue went away so maybe not all tires are created equally. I run 8lbs in the rear tire year round and no longer have any rubbing issues..


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

34henry3w said:


> hey guys I was hoping for some advice on the fm190
> 
> I know that both dengfu and xmcarbon make it, but I see that peterxu from xm cabron has been banned from this forum...can someone explain why?
> 
> I am 6'7 245 so I feel that the fm190 is my only option (640mm eff tt)...unless anyone has other suggestions?


I had great experience dealing with Dengfu. 
I'm 6'6" and about 35lbs heavier than you and the frame/wheels have held up great so far. I haven't found any chiner direct frames that fit better for larger riders.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## allenc (Dec 14, 2015)

https://www.facebook.com/LLEVANTFAT...286384442626/1525283077776290/?type=3&theater Awsome bikes


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## revelcru (Dec 13, 2014)

*Speaking of Dengfu...*



Bunyan said:


> I had great experience dealing with Dengfu.
> I'm 6'6" and about 35lbs heavier than you and the frame/wheels have held up great so far. I haven't found any chiner direct frames that fit better for larger riders.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Still have a few Deng Fu framesets available on theproscloset.com - search for 'fat'.

$599 all in - frame, fork, seatpost, stem, bars, f/r TA, headset, collar. This is cheaper than you can buy directly from China. I just want to offload my stock before next season, so willing to take a kick to the short hairs... my loss = your gain. Help me get my wife off my back for a good idea gone wrong!


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## drwittcop (May 23, 2008)

Just started building. Now have to get on a plane to Vegas. Gonna drive me nuts knowing this is back home waiing to be built and ridden.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

drwittcop said:


> Just started building. Now have to get on a plane to Vegas. Gonna drive me nuts knowing this is back home waiing to be built and ridden.
> 
> View attachment 1057360


Should be interesting cos it looks like someone's aiming for a WW build 

Awaits further WW porn pics with baited breath.

Fat Biker


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## 29WI (Mar 25, 2008)

34henry3w said:


> hey guys I was hoping for some advice on the fm190
> 
> I know that both dengfu and xmcarbon make it, but I see that peterxu from xm cabron has been banned from this forum...can someone explain why?
> 
> I am 6'7 245 so I feel that the fm190 is my only option (640mm eff tt)...unless anyone has other suggestions?


I'm about the same size, 6'6 & 250. I have a DF FM190 that I picked up from revelcru on this board. Also ride a Niner Jet in XL and Trek Madone 64 cm and the FM190 fits as well as both of those. 2 winters and 2 summers with no issues. Bike has held up well, I put a Bluto on it and have had no parts or frame issues at all.


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## 29WI (Mar 25, 2008)

http://imgur.com/smVu0


Bad pic I know


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

29WI said:


> I'm about the same size, 6'6 & 250. I have a DF FM190 that I picked up from revelcru on this board. Also ride a Niner Jet in XL and Trek Madone 64 cm and the FM190 fits as well as both of those. 2 winters and 2 summers with no issues. Bike has held up well, I put a Bluto on it and have had no parts or frame issues at all.


What hubs are you using please ? 
I'm the same @ #250 
That rear hub has held up well for four seasons. 
Guys #75 lighter are reporting rear hub failures within weeks.

Do you push the bike everywhere or have you just not ridden it for four seaons ? Bout the only way I could get a rear hub to last that long  LOL

Fat Biker


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## drwittcop (May 23, 2008)

Almost there. Need a couple more minor parts. won't be in till tuesday. Will finish on Thursday. Oh yeah, jumbbo Jim's fit frame just fine. Plenty of clearance.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nice hoops!


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## 29WI (Mar 25, 2008)

Fat Biker said:


> What hubs are you using please ?
> I'm the same @ #250
> That rear hub has held up well for four seasons.
> Guys #75 lighter are reporting rear hub failures within weeks.
> ...


Hope hubs, and no I probably don't get in as many miles as I'd like to to. Just weekends in SE Wi and I'm not a racer. I'm just an old dude who likes to ride and find the older I get the fewer parts failures I have.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

29WI said:


> Hope hubs, and no I probably don't get in as many miles as I'd like to to. Just weekends in SE Wi and I'm not a racer. I'm just an old dude who likes to ride and find the older I get the fewer parts failures I have.


Glad to hear a good report on Hope fat bike hubs. 
Heard nothing but bad news about the "bad bearings" on here and other forums. 
My standard width Hope hubs have been bullet proof, so I held them in high regard. Makes you wonder if folks are expecting too much from equipment ?

Thanks

Fat Biker


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Rear brake routing*

Rear brake routing is weird. I've built up a bunch of Chinese frames, and all the mtb frames have internal hydraulic routing for the rear brake. My version of the fm-190 has the routing beneath the bottom bracket, with cable stops in the obvious place for internal routing. How hard/dangerous is it to drill out he cable stops so I can route internally? The stops look to be aluminum inserts.


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

My 190 should be here within the week, it just cleared customs. Curious to see what you're talking about with the cable stops, but I'm assuming they're for internal cable discs?


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

Yes. I drilled them out but can't route the lines internally in any case. Kind of sad really. So much cleaner with the hoses inside.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

nbwallace said:


> Yes. I drilled them out but can't route the lines internally in any case. Kind of sad really. So much cleaner with the hoses inside.


There is a metal routing tube inside the frame for cable that needs to be removed also. 
I had this problem too and it takes some doing. You need to start at the BB and pull both ends of the tubing out from there. You'll need a good set of Vice grips or pliers to pull the tubing through though.

Then the fight to thread the hydraulic hose begins. 
It can be done. Good luck. 

Fat Biker


----------



## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

what brand fm-190 did you go with? i have a dngfu and the rear brake has a internal tube all the way back i just ordered my wife one so i really hope that it has the internal routing.


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

I think it was Dengfu but I'm not sure now. It's been a slow build process (funds are tight). I've had it nearly a year now (and still not ridden it). I have got 4 other bikes to use ( One is a fat bike too) in the meantime. 
Sorry I can't be of more help. It's an age thing 


Fat Biker


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

I got mine from carbonspeed. Got a notice today it's at the post office as my wife wasn't home to sign for it. I'll check mine out probably tomorrow.


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

I honestly don't know that source. I bought it off the pro's closet on Ebay. It was quite a deal: frame, fork, handle bar, seatpost, stem, etc. for $650 delivered. Otherwise I was looking at the RSD Mayor.


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

This may have been answered but I am having a hard time finding the info. Is there sufficient clearance for 29+ (40-50mm rims and 29X3.0 tires) on a sn01 frame?


----------



## drwittcop (May 23, 2008)

Build finally done. 25.11 lbs with pedals (CRank Brothers Mallet DH). They weight a lbs, so could get under 25 when I put my regular egg beaters on this summer.


----------



## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Finally have my summer set up finished. just set these JJ 4.8 beasts up tubeless. I can't believe how much larger they are over the 4.0 i had previously. 

frame is a FM190 19" with a full Dengfu carbon build kit. i went with 100mm rims and a mid level xt/slx group set. the bathroom scale says 27 lbs.


----------



## robertbbr (Apr 18, 2006)

I have an XMI No 19 and have set it up as a 1x10 with a OneUp 42 tooth cassette expander. The bike does not shift properly because the of way the internal routing angles the derailleur cable. Has anyone had this problem?


----------



## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

do you have a very tight loop of cable from where the cable exits the sram on the chain stay to where it attaches to the derailleur? I have heard of this causing issues. But never the frame routing. there is really only one route for a cable to go through the frame to the rear triangle. this is how the FM190 is routed and shifting is phenomenal.


----------



## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Jefflinde said:


> Finally have my summer set up finished. just set these JJ 4.8 beasts up tubeless. I can't believe how much larger they are over the 4.0 i had previously.
> 
> frame is a FM190 19" with a full Dengfu carbon build kit. i went with 100mm rims and a mid level xt/slx group set. the bathroom scale says 27 lbs.


Where did you get the rear fender? Like it!


----------



## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

it is a mucky nutz front fender that i flipped to the back

http://www.amazon.com/Mucky-Nutz-Fa...1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage


----------



## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Cool! Thanks


----------



## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

Got mine built as a SS today. SLX brakes, RF turbine cranks, mulefut rims with novatec hubs, diety cockpit. It's just under 30lbs with ground controlls set up tubeless. For the money I'm into it i think ive got a great bang for the buck build.

Just jamming it around my street I'm excited, it's super light and the bike fits better than i expected. I'll pick up a 1x11 setup in a few weeks for winter, mayber sooner depending on how the SS goes.


----------



## robertbbr (Apr 18, 2006)

Jefflinde said:


> do you have a very tight loop of cable from where the cable exits the sram on the chain stay to where it attaches to the derailleur? I have heard of this causing issues. But never the frame routing. there is really only one route for a cable to go through the frame to the rear triangle. this is how the FM190 is routed and shifting is phenomenal.


Unfortunately the internal rear derailleur routing on the XMI IP-19 comes out above the derailleur at the very end of the drop out. It makes for a very severe bend. I can't get the bike to shift properly with the XT Shadow Plus derailleur. The only option is a non-Shadow old school derailleur or sell the frame


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

robertbbr said:


> Unfortunately the internal rear derailleur routing on the XMI IP-19 comes out above the derailleur at the very end of the drop out. It makes for a very severe bend. I can't get the bike to shift properly with the XT Shadow Plus derailleur. The only option is a non-Shadow old school derailleur or sell the frame


I looked up the frame and in the pictures on the site it comes out well ahead of the RD. could you post a picture of yours? Maybe they screwed up and will give you a replacement


----------



## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

this is the pic i am seeing. where this comes out i could see that causing issues unless you make a really big loop. have you thought about using one of the metal elobows that were used on V-brakes?

https://www.xmiplay.com/Upload/images/IMG_7793.JPG


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## Damon777 (Jun 11, 2012)

You need an Avid Rollamajig. That would take care of the big loop as well.


----------



## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Jefflinde said:


> this is the pic i am seeing. where this comes out i could see that causing issues unless you make a really big loop. have you thought about using one of the metal elobows that were used on V-brakes?
> 
> https://www.xmiplay.com/Upload/images/IMG_7793.JPG


That's a poor design which I'm surprised they set it up that way. Talk about putting a bend on the cable inside/outside the frame


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

That looks nothing like my frame. Mine has what I consider standard exits about 25% up the chainstay. In my experience the standard set up also makes fro some "quirky" shifting sometimes.

My frame also doesn't have rack mounts, which makes me sad. But I rode it this weekend and other than some seatpost slippage (likely the inexpensive collar that came with the frame) it rode really nice.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

to those with the CC wheels, how are the Novatec and Chosen hubs holding up?

I'm considering a 29+ wheelset with either of those hubs.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

I'm using the Bitex hubs on my CC wheels and they're holding up very well. So this is another consideration towards hubs selection.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I am usin the chosen hubs laced to the dengfu 100mm rims with no issues so far. I weight 260ish full gear and while I am not hard on my stuff I definitely use it well. I have actually ordered a second set for my wife's fm190. I am going to be Ladin them to the dengfu 27+ rims. Depending on how my wife's 27+ wheels work I may be getting a second set for myself. The chosen hubs have a very respectable weight and good build. They seal up well too. I pulled the caps off this spring to check the bearings and there was no road salt or dirt at all in there. I have a hitch mount rack so I figured that some road spray would have penetrated but nothing. 

Very happy over all with the chosen hubs. I am running the 150/197 combo.


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

I second the chosen hubs. I have 40 lbs on Jeff and they've held up great along with my dengfu fm190. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

i just realized how rude i have been. I have a brand new FM190 build for my wife and i didn't post any pictures. here are the details. 

Frame: Dengfu FM190 15" and dengfu fork 150/197
bars, seat post, stem all from Dengfu as well, still waiting bars and post so just threw some old ones on there (really heavy)
Race face turbine cinch cranks w/ 28t chainring
XT shifter / SLX RD / XT 10spd cassette

Right now it has my 100mm rims with 4.8 JJ. My wife wanted to ride it really bad so she couldn't wait for her 27+ wheels to come in. as it sits it is 27lbs exactly. with her wheels and rocket ron 3.0 light skins she should have a 23-24lbs machine.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

*one year on the SN01*

its been a year now that Ive had the SN01, and to sum up: I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!!!!!

Info on the build can be found in posts 2603, 2637 - 2640 & 2652, on top of that I went SLX brakes, SLX cassette & chain, XT trigger & derailleur (1X10), frame is a large (20") and the bike weighed in at 12.4kg with pedals. Price came in around 2500CHF (Swiss Francs) all up to where I am today, which I think is good considering the Spez Fatboy starts at 2200 here.



About me: 44yrs stoopid, 6"2', ~95kgs in my Bday suit, been riding bikes approx 6 yrs but come from a enduro motocycling background (past life in Australia).

In the last year I have done 3331.2kms on it (wouldve been more but I was laid up for 2months with a skateboard injury), and I am pretty damn happy with my venture in fatbikes. My ride before the SN01 was a 2012 Trek Rumblefish, which in the last year has not been ridden at all. The SN01 is my "do it all bike", needless to say it isnt so much fun on a pumptrack or a downhill course, but thats a price Im willing to pay.

Basically I went the full ICAN SN01 with seat, seatpost, stem, handlebar, BB, crankset & wheelset all coming from ICAN.
The first parts to go were the stem and handlebar, I found the carbon flexed too much for my liking, and they were replaced with aluminium jobbies , the results were heaps better and the whole setup is stiffer and more to my liking.
The next issue I encountered was the freehub (link to post about it), some of the pawls got stuck, placing pressure on one side of the freehub, which then slowly destroyed itself. A new one was ordered from ICAN, and I now pull it apart every ~300kms and check/clean it. The crappy ICAN BB also slowly destroyed itself after ~10 months and has been replaced, having said that I ride in the wet/slop/salt/beach so I guess that was to be expected. I will see how the Shimano Saint BB holds up.



I have two sets of tyres, Ground Controls 4.6 & ChaoYangs 4.9 (FatBNimble copy), the Ground Controls are absolutely awesome in nearly all conditions and sh!t all over the ChaoYangs, but they are also 3x the price. I find the ChaoYangs only good for dry work, but I reckon thy may be good on the beach although I only had the Ground Controls at the beach.



The wheelset has held up very nicely (outside of the freehub issue I had) and one day (maybe) I will go tubeless.Just need to be sure to get all the water out of the rims which are double walled. But Ive done all sorts of riding which has included numerous rim strikes and one or two flips and the wheelset had remained round & true. The same can be said for the frame, has held up well. I ended up drilling a hole in the frame under the BB, as water was pooling there, which no doubt contributed to the BB destroying itself. Until now its been ok and no cracks have developed.

The headset caused me problems as well, it was always coming loose, I could tighten it using loctite, and that bastard would still come loose. This small issue appears to have been resolved by using a new stem cap, since the new stem cap the loosening has gone (sounds weird I know, but thats how it is).

Not long ago the bike developed an annoying creak on each pedal stropke, shortly after installing the new BB. I washed, oiled, disassembled, tightened etc etc etc, it drove me nuts. I checked the frame where I'd drilled, worked on the BB again and again, and figured Id have to live with it until something gave in or broke. That was until one day on a long climb I stood up for a while (not something I normally do), and then eventually noticed the creaking had stopped which was weird as essentially more weight was on the BB now. Basically the issue was my seat rails moving up & down in the seatpost clamp, retighten and all is good. The rails have been slightly damaged due to this, but time will tell if they hold up.



I also commute on it, which is ideal as it allows me to be more creative with my rides to and from work, and also keeps me away from people who wish to stop you and talk about the bike. Last year on a warm day was riding up a steep road and pretty much dying, when a van slowed to my pace and the folks started talking to me about the bike, it can get annoying sometimes but Ive learnt to just "smile & wave" and keep riding.



Well thats about all, if I was to do it all again, I wouldnt bother with the following:
ICAN BB
ICAN Stem
ICAN Handlebar
ICAN Headset
ChaoYang tyres
I havent replaced the headset yet, but its on the list of things to do.

To sum up, I made a few mistakes, but all in all Im stoked.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

cmg71 said:


> About me: 44yrs stoopid. . . . . . I was laid up for 2months with a skateboard injury


Congratulations CMG that qualifies.

44yrs - brain cells + skateboard = injury

Shocker :cornut: :thumbsup:  :lol:

FYI Things don't improve with age 
47 yrs here and still manage to do dumb (fun) stuff.

Fat Biker

P.S. Some good info (and pics) there. Thanks for taking the time and effort to post.

Also keep doing stoopit stuff it's the only way to live


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## ttakata73 (Feb 9, 2012)

Great info cmg71; I wish more people gave long term feedback like you.
Someday I will probably get a carbon fatbike and its good to know what parts are not worth the money.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah second that. 

I have an FM190 that I'm in the process of building. 
I'll do an initial and long term report once I've ridden it 
Struggling to loose some weight from her at the moment though 

Not got the cash to loose enough weight out of her just yet. 

Anyone know of a 31.6mm x 400mm post under 150g that I don't need to sell a major organ to finance ? LOL


Fat Biker

P.S. I am that sad that I'm pinching grammes sorry


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

Hi,

What should I consider when choosing the travel on a Bluto suspension fork? I would like the most travel at 120mm, but do the frame head tube angle have some limitations for what I can mount on it? The head tube angle on my frame is 70,5 by the way. I dont do jumps but I ride hard on trails often with a lot of roots and small rock sections. 

I appreciate all inputs.

Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Kiddiboy said:


> What should I consider when choosing the travel on a Bluto suspension fork?


I would consider telling us which frame and which size frame you have, then you should get a response pretty quickly


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> I would consider telling us which frame and which size frame you have, then you should get a response pretty quickly


It is the same frame as the On-One Tomac Hesperus found here:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FRTOMHE/tomac-hesperus-carbon-fat-frameset.

Size 17,5"

Axle to crown distance on the original carbon fork is aprox. 490mm.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Is it a Tomac or is it something else?
Where did you get it from? if you let us know hopefully someone can give you an answer.

You want help but you are not very forthcoming with information, ie l have the large size ICAN SN01, which l know will fit a Bluto if l so desire.


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

cmg71 said:


> Is it a Tomac or is it something else?
> Where did you get it from? if you let us know hopefully someone can give you an answer.
> 
> You want help but you are not very forthcoming with information, ie l have the large size ICAN SN01, which l know will fit a Bluto if l so desire.


Sorry. 
Here is link to the actual frame I have in size 17,5".

http://m.carbonfiberbikecomponents....le-routing-in-15-5-17-5-19-20-5-ht-fm366.html

I know a Bluto will fit but not what travel length I could run safely.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

You can run what ever travel you want. As long as the fork crown will clear the down tube it will work. the length of travel will affect the head angle and BB height. you would have to know the Axle to crown length of your fork and then match that to the axle to crown length of the bluto of the various travels.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Dear all !!

I'm having a look to different chinese carbon fat bike frames, at this point of momment I have seen these different models, and I have some questions....

FM-190
Aliexpress.com : Buy Dengfu hot sale! carbon fat frame fm190 with free shipping from Reliable frames birds suppliers on Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited | Alibaba Group
My size is 18'5" and this frame is 17'5" or 19'5", I'm not sure wich fits better for me.
BB: Threated BSA 100mm width (more options than 120mm BB frames)
Rear space: 190x12/197x12 (is possible both widths ???)
Max Tyre size: ? (not sure, 4'8" ?? 5'0" ??)
Fork axle 135x15mm
Price: 648 $ (Front fork and shipment included)

IP-018
https://xmiplay.en.alibaba.com/prod...rame_fat_bicycle_carbon_IP_018_16_18_20_.html
Size:18" (it's OK for me)
BB: Threated BSA 120mm width
Rear space: 197x12
Max Tyre size: ? (not sure, 4'8" ?? 5'0" ??)
Fork axle 135x15mm
Price: ?

IP-010
https://xmiplay.en.alibaba.com/prod...6_carbon_fat_bike_frame_with_size_17_19_.html
Size:19" (it's OK for me)
BB: Threated BSA 100mm width (more options than 120mm BB frames)
Rear space: 190x12 (is narrower than 197x12mm ???)
Max Tyre size: ? (not sure, 4'8" ?? 5'0" ??)
Fork axle 135x15mm
Price: ?

IP-019
https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/IPLAY-IP-N019-carbon-fatbike-frame_60105020662.html
Size:19" (it's OK for me)
BB: Threated BSA 100mm width (more options than 120mm BB)
Rear space: 197x12
Max Tyre size: 5'0"
Fork axle 150x15mm
Price: 670$ (Front Fork and shipment included)

Questions:
From your experience wich is the cheapest seller/website ??
Rear space 190mm or 197mm pros and cons ??
Fork axle 150mm or 135mm pros and cons ?
Any experience with this frames that allow to confirm that one is better thant the others ? Any frama that you consider I have to discard ?
Some of these geometries are similar to any international brand frame (Specialized, Trek, Canyon,....)
Did you try to ask for a XDB shipment in order to avoid european custom costs ?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the "massive" post !


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

Jefflinde said:


> You can run what ever travel you want. As long as the fork crown will clear the down tube it will work. the length of travel will affect the head angle and BB height. you would have to know the Axle to crown length of your fork and then match that to the axle to crown length of the bluto of the various travels.


Axle to crown on my fork is 490mm. Can I go for a Bluto with 100mm travel with a 511mm axle to crown and 20-25% suspension sag? Or should I go for the 80mm travel with axle to crown 491mm?


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

wind_dre said:


> Rear space 190mm or 197mm pros and cons ??
> Fork axle 150mm or 135mm pros and cons ?


On a general basis when buying a bike:
Make sure your bike has 150mm front through axle and 197mm rear through axle!
(you'll thank me in the future once you wanna buy a new hub, change weels, swap forks, etc)

Just to repeat: avoid 135mm forks. They are outdated and won't do you any good. The standard is 150mm (which is bluto compatible).

197mm is the standard with for through axels, 190mm is for quick release squewers. 
My advice is to avoide qr and go with proper through axels.
Iv'e also seen (actually owned one) 190mm frames with through axels. Avoid them like the plague. No compatibility what so ever. I think one of the china carbon frames had this uncommon size, but probably not anymore.


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## thebionicman (Mar 23, 2015)

To add to what Andy81's great post. I would also stick to the 100mm bottom bracket. 

I have the SN01 with the 120 mm bottom bracket. I wish I had a 100mm and then could of run a 170 rear spaced crankset in a 1x configuration.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

thebionicman said:


> To add to what Andy81's great post. I would also stick to the 100mm bottom bracket.
> 
> I have the SN01 with the 120 mm bottom bracket. I wish I had a 100mm and then could of run a 170 rear spaced crankset in a 1x configuration.


Said that, the only option that meet all the requirements is the last one (IP-019)
Front fork axle 150x15mm
Rear space 197x12mm
BB 100mm



Andy81 said:


> On a general basis when buying a bike:
> Make sure your bike has 150mm front through axle and 197mm rear through axle!
> (you'll thank me in the future once you wanna buy a new hub, change weels, swap forks, etc)
> 
> ...


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Kiddiboy said:


> Axle to crown on my fork is 490mm. Can I go for a Bluto with 100mm travel with a 511mm axle to crown and 20-25% suspension sag? Or should I go for the 80mm travel with axle to crown 491mm?


You can run either one. the 100mm will raise the front slightly but then when the sag is accounted for you will be very close to what you have now. the 80mm will be close to stock but once the say is accounted for you will be low. this will steepen the head angle up a little bit (prob .5 degrees). i run the 100mm on mt FM190 and it works great.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

wind_dre said:


> Said that, the only option that meet all the requirements is the last one (IP-019)
> Front fork axle 150x15mm
> Rear space 197x12mm
> BB 100mm


I found the same in carbon speed:
CS-N019 26er full carbon fat bike frame frame 150*15mm/190*10mm QR/197*12mm axle - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

wind_dre said:


> Said that, the only option that meet all the requirements is the last one (IP-019)
> Front fork axle 150x15mm
> Rear space 197x12mm
> BB 100mm


you may be able to get the Dengfu with the 150mm fork. i have that frame and they offer either the 135mm or the 150mm. you just have to ask. I have heard that the Dengfu has slightly more rear tire clearance. i don't have an IP 019 frame to compare to but someone on here said that it does. not sure if that is a concern but wanted to point it out. if they wont do the 150mm fork then go with the IP-019.

On a side note. i just ordered a Dengfu FM190 frame for my wife directly from them and it was $40 less then what Aliexpress is showing including shipping and the headset. This was with the 150mm fork. 
Frame - $379 
fork - $116
Headset - $14
shipping - $90


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

Jefflinde said:


> You can run either one. the 100mm will raise the front slightly but then when the sag is accounted for you will be very close to what you have now. the 80mm will be close to stock but once the say is accounted for you will be low. this will steepen the head angle up a little bit (prob .5 degrees). i run the 100mm on mt FM190 and it works great.


Thank you so much for your help! Much appreciated.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Jefflinde said:


> you may be able to get the Dengfu with the 150mm fork. i have that frame and they offer either the 135mm or the 150mm. you just have to ask. I have heard that the Dengfu has slightly more rear tire clearance. i don't have an IP 019 frame to compare to but someone on here said that it does. not sure if that is a concern but wanted to point it out. if they wont do the 150mm fork then go with the IP-019.
> 
> On a side note. i just ordered a Dengfu FM190 frame for my wife directly from them and it was $40 less then what Aliexpress is showing including shipping and the headset. This was with the 150mm fork.
> Frame - $379
> ...


Thanks,
I checked the Dengfu website and I saw that FM190 is 197x12mm and have the option for 150mmx15 for the front fork, so FM-190 is another candidate !!!


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

I'm progressing quite well with different sellers, Just another question regarding the wheels...
Wich differences (pros & cons) there are with the width of the rim ?? 100mm, 80 mm ??
For rear space 197mm and front fork 150mm I can use both ??
Both rims allows 26x4'8" and 26x4'0" ??

I like DTSwiss BR2250 (is 81mm width) but I'm waiting for quotations from China carbon wheels, and I don't know if is better 80 or 100mm.

Thanks !!


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

wind_dre said:


> I'm progressing quite well with different sellers, Just another question regarding the wheels...
> Wich differences (pros & cons) there are with the width of the rim ?? 100mm, 80 mm ??
> For rear space 197mm and front fork 150mm I can use both ??
> Both rims allows 26x4'8" and 26x4'0" ??
> ...


100mm better floatation, 80mm easier turning and less weight.

YES and yes

I'd buy dt Swiss complete wheels in a heartbeat. 80mm is a good all round size for most riders so if you'll only have 1 set of wheels I'd go for those.
(I prefer alu over carbon in rocky terrain). Great hubs too.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Andy81 said:


> 100mm better floatation, 80mm easier turning and less weight.
> 
> YES and yes
> 
> ...


Thanks !!!

I've already ordered a carbon frame (CS-N019). I've discarded the carbon wheels, I'll go for a DTSwiss BR2250 wheelset !! 80mm wil be perfect for me as only wheelset. I'm 152lb (69 Kg),

Thanks @Andy81


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

wind_dre said:


> Said that, the only option that meet all the requirements is the last one (IP-019)
> Front fork axle 150x15mm
> Rear space 197x12mm
> BB 100mm


The problem with the ip-019 (to my knowledge) is that it won't fit the 170mm spindle for raceface cinch system. The chainstays are something like 4mm too wide for 170 mm next sl crank system. The whole point of 100mm bb is to utilise the flopped chairing on 170mm for the tightest q factor. (I wish raceface would do a 180mm spindle)

Our of all the China "carbons" I prefer that one though, mainly because it fits most of the stuff on the wanted list.

If they would redo the frame with that (and shorten the chainstay lenght a bit) it would be a dream bike. As it stands it's a perfect winterbike but not optimal all-round bike in my opinion.

With that frame, I'd throw on the widest rims the biggest tires and wear the biggest boots and ride it into winterland


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Andy81 said:


> The problem with the ip-019 (to my knowledge) is that it won't fit the 170mm spindle for raceface cinch system. The chainstays are something like 4mm too wide for 170 mm next sl crank system. The whole point of 100mm bb is to utilise the flopped chairing on 170mm for the tightest q factor. (I wish raceface would do a 180mm spindle)
> 
> Our of all the China "carbons" I prefer that one though, mainly because it fits most of the stuff on the wanted list.
> 
> ...


They still don't send me the frame (they will send it tomorrow I think), so I supose that I can change the order to a FM-190. Do you think is better ???


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

wind_dre said:


> They still don't send me the frame (they will send it tomorrow I think), so I supose that I can change the order to a FM-190. Do you think is better ???


Perhaps but it'd up to you. I tosses up between the fm190 and the one you've ordered. Both are great but with each own few shortcomings. The Fm190 will take the cinch 170 (as far as I remember) but I remember having a beef with that frame too.. I'll have to check in on that, but it either had to do with chainstay lenght or tire width.

*edit* yea beef with the very 2013 snowbike geometry on fm190, I'd prefer something more trial (ish). Although apparently the fm 190 is plenty playful according to owners, so each to his/her own.

Dreambike has (150/197mm through axle system) short chainstays (preferably adjustable) space for the big tires (100mm and 4.8" tires), but still with 100mm threaded bb and chainstays adjusted to fit 170mm cinch crank. 
69ish headangle and bluto compatible.

The Ican sn01 is nice but as far as I remember my beef I think was wheel size support. I don't think it'll fit 100mm with bud/lou (or was it the cinch 170mm that didn't fit?) 
Anyway
"The Dude" from canyon was my third choice bike and I really like Trek's offerings (it fits most of what's on my checklist) .

To any Chinese carbon company out there: Gimme Ican sn01 chainstays, Fm 190 bottom bracket, ip19 geometry and tire support.. And you'll be getting my money.


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

This is a nice read too. 
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=1009858


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Andy81 said:


> This is a nice read too.
> Chinese Carbon Fatbike SN01 - 1 year down- Mtbr.com


that review is on the last page (Page 147)


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## thebionicman (Mar 23, 2015)

Andy81 said:


> The Ican sn01 is nice but as far as I remember my beef I think was wheel size support. I don't think it'll fit 100mm with bud/lou (or was it the cinch 170mm that didn't fit?)
> 
> To any Chinese carbon company out there: Gimme Ican sn01 chainstays, Fm 190 bottom bracket, ip19 geometry and tire support.. And you'll be getting my money.


You are correct for both. On a 90 mm wheel the Lou needs to be trimmed to fit. 100mm is out with a 4.8. I got a Flowbeist on the back now.

You have to run the Cinch 190 with the SN01.

I agree with you Andy81. You combo right there is the ticket. My fiance has the Framed Alaksa Carbon and while it hits two out of three, I do not like the longer chainstays.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Swerny said:


> that review is on the last page (Page 147)


I readed yesterday I think, but SN01 is not my frame I guess, SN01 is not the same than IP019.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Andy81 said:


> Perhaps but it'd up to you. I tosses up between the fm190 and the one you've ordered. Both are great but with each own few shortcomings. The Fm190 will take the cinch 170 (as far as I remember) but I remember having a beef with that frame too..
> 
> Dreambike has (150/197mm through axle system) short chainstays (preferably adjustable) space for the big tires (100mm and 4.8" tires), but still with 100mm threaded bb and chainstays adjusted to fit 170mm cinch crank.
> 69ish headangle and bluto compatible.


I'm worried with that !! So the chainstays of N019 doesn't allow 170mm cinch crank ? So what I would need ?? Does it affect on the Q factor ?? How could I know wich crankset I need ?? This is very difficult !!


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

The FM190 seems to be the best all around. you can run the tighter Q factor, it fits all the tires you would want and it will clear a bluto. When i did the same comparison you are that is what i found. it is the only frame that didn't have any "oh by the ways" that make you change plans. Also the cable routing does not have any weird qwerks like the rear derailleur cable coming out in a weird spot so then the shifting is compromised.


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

wind_dre said:


> I'm worried with that !! So the chainstays of N019 doesn't allow 170mm cinch crank ? So what I would need ?? Does it affect on the Q factor ?? How could I know wich crankset I need ?? This is very difficult !!


You'd need the cinch 190mm spindle.

Raceface next sl or raceface turbine cinch 190mm are both great cranks that'll fit the n019. 
They'll give you 222mm q factor.

The talk about the 170mm cinch is to get 202mm q factor (distance between your feet). The 170mm cinch is made for bikes with 170mm rear hub width, but if you flip the chain wheel you'll get a nice chain line and a narrow q factor. Depending on the frame you can get some heelstrikes though when your feet are that much closer.

Basically the n019 will give you more of a cowboy stance than the fm190 and can be problematic for your knees if you're short.

I'm 181cm and I ride with q222 without issues, but I'd prefer q202 if I had the option..

To run with 222q factor on a frame, then it should be able to clear 5+" tires like vee 2xl. The n019 unfortunately cannot.

If you get the n019 and the q factor is bothersome you can always cut (or get a custom made) spindle. It'll cost ya, but it's possible.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Thanks guys !!
I have already ask for a switch, from N019 to FM190. I'm 179cm and and I think Q202 will be better for my knees !
If the seller did not send the frame yet, I will have the FM190. We'll see...
Otherwise, I will use 190mm cinch !!


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

wind_dre said:


> Thanks guys !!
> I have already ask for a switch, from N019 to FM190. I'm 179cm and and I think Q202 will be better for my knees !
> If the seller did not send the frame yet, I will have the FM190. We'll see...
> Otherwise, I will use 190mm cinch !!


You'll be happy either way. 
I've ridden a similar weighed bike with the same geo as fm190 for a while and it's fine on trails and great in snow. I'm riding a bike with similar geo as the n019 now and it's a blast on trails. It all depends on your riding style, and with your height I don't see an issue either way with the q factor.

Edit: I wonder how the fm190 would ride with a 120mm bluto.. That probably would slack out the whole thing a lot for summer trail riding?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

keep in mind that there are 2 different measurements on cranks that can be 170 mm. the crank arm usually comes in 170, 172.5 and 175. then the spindle (the bar that connects the arms) can be either 170 or 190 mm. the link below has the RF Turbine cinch and you can pick either the 170 or 190. they reference the hub spacing meaning that for a frame with a 190 rear hub get the wider spindle. the FM190 has a 190 rear end but can run the 170 spindle. this will give you the 202 Q factor.

Race Face Turbine Cinch Fat Bike DM Crank Arms | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

One question, Q202mm or Q222mm, is the distance between the external side of the cranks ?? (Is not de distance between pedals center isn't it ??)


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

wind_dre said:


> One question, Q202mm or Q222mm, is the distance between the external side of the cranks ?? (Is not de distance between pedals center isn't it ??)


Measured from outside crank arms, since pedals differ.. 
Surly has a great picture somewhere on their site.

Eksamples: 
surly of crank = 214q
Cinch / next sl 190mm =222q
Cinch / next sl 170mm =202
E13 trs = 197q (i think..) 
Hollowcore / cannondale = 198q/204q
Samox = 217q
Sram xx1 = 201q

I'm a big fan of raceface and the next sl is the sweetest thing I've ridden.

If you can afford it get next sl for 170mm rear if you get fm190 (and flip the chainwheel) and buy next sl for 190mm rear if you get the n019

Alternately get turbine cinch to save some money. Same widths..


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

wind_dre said:


> I readed yesterday I think, but SN01 is not my frame I guess, SN01 is not the same than IP019.


By the way, sn01 is the same as ip018.

Here's your rundown:
Ip018 - very playful geometry, but limited tire width and apparently 222q with raceface crank 
Ip019 - bigger tire support but less playful 
Fm190 - winter geo, but possible to get 202q


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Jefflinde said:


> keep in mind that there are 2 different measurements on cranks that can be 170 mm. the crank arm usually comes in 170, 172.5 and 175. then the spindle (the bar that connects the arms) can be either 170 or 190 mm. the link below has the RF Turbine cinch and you can pick either the 170 or 190. they reference the hub spacing meaning that for a frame with a 190 rear hub get the wider spindle. the FM190 has a 190 rear end but can run the 170 spindle. this will give you the 202 Q factor.
> 
> Race Face Turbine Cinch Fat Bike DM Crank Arms | Chain Reaction Cycles


Yes, I know these 2 different measurements, the cranks itself (In my other bikes I use 172,5mm) and the spindle.

Thanks !!


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Andy81 said:


> Measured from outside crank arms, since pedals differ..
> Surly has a great picture somewhere on their site.
> 
> Eksamples:
> ...


Turbine is half price compared with Next SL !!!


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Hi

I was discussing with the seller and he put me in contact with a customer that has bought different frames, a guy from Canada (I'm in Catalonia).
I mailed him and he replied me with very good news.
He has the N019 frame and I asked about the spindle lenght.
This is what he wrote me:

"David I have sram gx fatbike groupset I bought from r2-bikes in Germany. It has 170mm qfactor. It worked perfect.

The cranks came with 2 small 1/8 washer. With one in each side it's close but I have enough room. The cranks haven't hit the frame ever."

I believe what he told me, altough until the frame arrives here I cannot check it. He sent me some pics.

So, definitely, I will have the N019 frame.

I'll keep you in the loop !


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Now I have to decide If I buy the Sram GX groupset or Shimano XT M8000.
GX cassette is 10/42, but I'm used to ride with XT shifter and I'm afraid of GX shifter. With XT you can use the index finger for change down, with Sram you must use the thumb.
On the other hand, I'm not sure wich is better, XT or GX. Prices and weight are almost the same.
Any feedback on that ?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Shimano or sram is like chevy or ford. however, go with the XT. the shifting with thumb to index is a main reason all my bikes have Shimano shifters. the cassette can be whoever but i would go XT shifter and deraillure.


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

I have sram x1 on my trailbike, my previous fatbike is x9 and most of my previous bikes had slx/xt/xtr drivetrains. I feel like sram doesn't feel as nice when shifting, but its reliable and requires less adjustment. My ideal drivetrain is a shimano casette with sram shifter/der. Shimano casettes shift much better than sram ones. haven't had a chance to ride 11s shimano, however.

I've put about 10 miles on my CS190. I'm stoked on the geometry, it's going to be great in the snow and it's still lively for a fatbike. The geometry charts definitely make it seem more xcish than it feels.

It's built single speed, but I'm going to get an 11s drivetrain for winter. No regrets so far


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)




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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Jefflinde said:


> Shimano or sram is like chevy or ford. however, go with the XT. the shifting with thumb to index is a main reason all my bikes have Shimano shifters. the cassette can be whoever but i would go XT shifter and deraillure.


IMHO Sram or Shimano is like Mercedes or BMW


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

After having issues with my crap tensioner and needs for a geared drivetrain in the winter, I decided to drop the single speed. Went for a GX RD, GX shifter, x1 chain and XT m8000 cassette.

This is by far the best drivetrain for the least amount of money. Everything was $223 with $6 extra for expedited shipping. If i had to do it over I'd pony up another $20 for an x1 shifter. It's the ony thing that feels different between the GX and thr full x1 setup on my trailbike.

I'm LOVING this bike so far


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## traditiionalist (May 26, 2014)

Anyone have this kind of problem with usps? I ordered a carbon fork, the address was right. It never reached my local post office.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Anybody with CS-N019 frame could please measure the chainline in the rear wheel ???
If is with 11s cassette, would be perfect !


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Second frame cracked at the seat stay.




























First frame had hairline cracks on the top tube after I ride. They replaced under warranty. This one lasted about 6 months. I won't make the mistake of buying these fragile frames anymore. I went with a Trek 9.8 carbon frame. Let's see how that one holds up.


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Is that the seat stay or the seat tube? Mine shipped with a seat post that was too short. I confirmed with them that 100mm was the minimum post insertion for my frame, a pretty common amount. Even more post would strengthen that area.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

gi02sl said:


> Is that the seat stay or the seat tube? Mine shipped with a seat post that was too short. I confirmed with them that 100mm was the minimum post insertion for my frame, a pretty common amount. Even more post would strengthen that area.


Sorry. Seat tube. Longer post would be better. Not sure if a longer one would have even reached that point anyways.


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## traditiionalist (May 26, 2014)

Just curious, is there any 170 qr frames available? It would allow me to switch my current components over to a carbon frame with no new parts.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I have never hear of one. there are some that can be sourced in a 177 TA but i have not heard of a 170 QR. you could always ask. Most companies have replaceable dropouts in their 190/197 frames so you could potentially take the QR drop out from a 190 frame and swap them with the drop outs on a 177 TA frame and make your own. you would have to check though. just a thought.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

They can be found on Ali Baba. I just googled 170 carbon frame and a couple popped right up.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

In Aliexpress there are a lot as well.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Hey guys had my Chinese fatty a year and heard creaking, thought it was the Bottom bracket but turns out to be a crack...

Going to find out whats happening warranty wise...

original thread below
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/carbonspeed-cs-18-chinese-carbon-fat-bike-build-bluto-969057.html


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Please post pics of the crack/location.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)




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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

oh man, gonna give mine a thorough inspection today. i have had my fm190 for over 3 years without single issue. it has seen all the chunk of colorado front range including some nasty crashes.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

I'm pretty gutted, i ****ing the love the bike it rides so ****ing good!


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

devans said:


> I'm pretty gutted, i ****ing the love the bike it rides so ****ing good!


While it certainly isn't anywhere near as plush as the fm190, this is what replaced mine:
http://www.fatbikes.com/products/pro-deal-purple-frameset-special-color-matched-fork-included.html
For the price, I don't know if it can be beat.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

devans said:


> View attachment 1073744
> 
> 
> View attachment 1073745


My first frame had hairline cracks like that after my first ride. They replaced it at the time. The second one cracked at the seat tube.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> My first frame had hairline cracks like that after my first ride. They replaced it at the time. The second one cracked at the seat tube.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Yap i noticed creaking and thought it was the Bottom bracket till i looked the frame over properly.

i'm pretty gutted as the wheels and frame so far have been great


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

devans said:


> Yap i noticed creaking and thought it was the Bottom bracket till i looked the frame over properly.
> 
> i'm pretty gutted as the wheels and frame so far have been great


My rear carbon wheel cracked and I have had to replace the free hub once already and the replacement was about to fail.

So if anyone is keeping count, two chinese carbon frames and one wheel have cracked and two free hubs have gone bad. Trying to get off cheap has become expensive for me. I gave up and bought a Trek 9.8 carbon frame to replace the second cracked Chinese frame. Rear icann carbon wheel was replaced with nextie wheel with dt Swiss hub. I hope these last longer.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

I've rode hard all winter on my sn01 and have had zero issues other than the bar slipping on the stem and with enough carbon paste I seem to have stopped it!

This might sound dumb but I'm looking to make my sn01 my all year bike so I will need to figure out a bluto fork and wheelset for summertime...

I'm currently running 100mm rims with 4.6 tires... I don't mind the rolling resistance of the tires but on rocky trails I think I want narrower rims for more protection from rock strikes?

Any thoughts on a good wheel / tire setup for what I've got going on? 27.5 plus or 29 plus?

Thanks!


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

If you are going to be getting new wheels anyway I would go ahead and get 29+. That would also make getting a fork easier as you would have a lot more options than just the Bluto. 26 x 65mm rims would also work for 4.6 or bigger tires, but 29+ would be more different than just running a 65mm rim instead of a 100mm rim. Another option would be 27.5 rims with 4.5 Barbegazis. They are not a full 4.5" but the diameter is close to that of a 26 x 4.8 tire.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Thanks for the reply!

I've been setting here digging through threads and it seems like 29x3.0 with 50mm rims and a bluto might be the way to go. Would be nice to have the bluto for my 100mm wheels for some winter riding.

Seem like a dual purpose setup that should work just fine?


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

As long as your winter front hub is 150mm you should be set.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Yeah, I got the 150mm hub in case I ever decided to go with a bluto...


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

What Bluto are you guys running on your Sn01? 80mm is close to the stock a to c but I'm thinking about a 100? Any experience?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

bncrshr77 said:


> What Bluto are you guys running on your Sn01? 80mm is close to the stock a to c but I'm thinking about a 100? Any experience?


I had the 100 on mine before the frame crapped out. I think when you take sag into account, the 100 is the correct a-c.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## 4AKboys (Mar 15, 2016)

I am running the 120 and I love it. I have stopped riding my full suspension because the ican is so much fun. I ordered the xt build from ican and I am at about 26 pounds with a bluto and juggernaut pros. It rallies!

Sent from my SM-N910T2 using Tapatalk


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## 4AKboys (Mar 15, 2016)

For what it's worth I am on 90mm rims and decided to buy the juggernauts for riding in the summer. It made all the difference. It dropped a bunch of weight from my winter studded Dillinger 5s and it rides great. They were $128 for the pair including 3 day shipping to Alaska from Bike Bling. 

Sent from my SM-N910T2 using Tapatalk


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Really gutted about my fatbike frame, there really is nothin out there close for the money.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Did the Jones - Pinkerton - Dutch creek loop in Hermosa CO today on my sn01 and loved it.

I have the 100mm wheels and it would only be a matter of time before I took them out with a rock or something...

I'm really thinking about some 65mm wheels and possibly the same 4.6 GC's or maybe a 4" tire.

I'm gonna have to do some serious thinking between the 100 and 120 bluto. I climb great with it now and raising it up with the 120 might make the front end too light.

Edit... I found this on another thread if anyone has the same questions.. The stock Ican fatty 150mm fork has a 483mm A to C... Doing the math the 25% sagged Axle to Crown measurements of the bluto will be 471mm (80mm travel), 486mm (100mm travel), and 501mm (120mm travel).


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## Gambit21 (Feb 6, 2015)

devans said:


> Really gutted about my fatbike


Gutted? What?


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Looks like his frame broke... Guess gutted means it sucks...


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## Gambit21 (Feb 6, 2015)

Hehe - good to know for future reference.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Petercycles said:


> 2017 new HT fat bike frame CS-197
> 
> CS-197 2017 NEW Two position dropout Fat Bike Frame CS-197 - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


Looks like all the issues could be fixed with that new design, Peter will this be offered for replacement?


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Why rear disk is IS instead of PM (post mount) ??

Nowadays the most extensive sytem is PM.


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## ttakata73 (Feb 9, 2012)

Yep, any new frame should go with the latest standard IMO. 
I imagine it was just cheaper to design it the way it was since the dropouts are 2 set positions instead of separate metal sliders.
I think sliding dropouts like on a Blackborow would have been nicer; probably only $10 in cost to make them in bulk quantities.

Road bikes skipped the post mount and went right to flat mount so the adapter is not needed.
I hope MTB brakes start to go in this direction if it makes sense to do so.
The less adapters the better and it looks cleaner.
I hope a wireless derailleur (with manual ability if the battery dies) makes it to MTB soon too.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

Yeh, we'd all rather strip or have a bolt break off in a slider or frame. Post mount is not new manito started it in the 90's. I think it ranks right up there with press fit bb's


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

Petercycles said:


> 2017 new HT fat bike frame CS-197
> 
> CS-197 2017 NEW Two position dropout Fat Bike Frame CS-197 - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


Anyone get a drawing with geometry spec from Peter? All I got from my email was "we're only doing 17 inch now"


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Petercycles said:


> 2017 new HT fat bike frame CS-197
> 
> CS-197 2017 NEW Two position dropout Fat Bike Frame CS-197 - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


am l the only one who thinks that is f-ugly?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

cmg71 said:


> am l the only one who thinks that is f-ugly?


Nope. It was a long fall out of a tall ugly tree . With lots o' branches that took a beatin on it's way down .

Looks short on the front end and long in back .

I eagerly await the geo charts. Unless I've missed 'em along the way of course (This is highly possible) ?

Fat Biker


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

This is my CS-N019 alredy built....


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## Gambit21 (Feb 6, 2015)

devans said:


> Looks like all the issues could be fixed with that new design, Peter will this be offered for replacement?


Make sure you're just a gutted with the next one.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

465 to the furthest chainstay dropout
68.5 head angle
1139.5 wheelbase
600 effective top tube
479 axle to crown
64.2 bottom bracket drop
I guess that's for the 17 inch


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Gambit21 said:


> Make sure you're just a gutted with the next one.


I have no idea if your being positive or not haha, but i do know my bike handled really well and i was pretty gutted.


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## Gambit21 (Feb 6, 2015)

I get it now.
It broke - you were gutted.
Brain lapse on my part.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

kidd said:


> Anyone get a drawing with geometry spec from Peter? All I got from my email was "we're only doing 17 inch now"


I would buy this in a second if it came in the next size down. 15.5" please. Stepping off into deep snow needs more top tube clearence.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

I'd like to know the chainstay length to the shortest dropout. Been waiting for something inexpensive to check all the boxes. If nothing comes up by end of summer. I'll forgive the 479 fork and probably purchase one in 15.5 as well.


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## MaineLotus (Jun 27, 2016)

Just received my N019 frame and FK019 fork from xmiplay, can hardly wait to complete the build. I think I recall reading here that the fork has an integrated race, does that mean that the lower crown race is not needed with the headset?


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Yes. You just need the headset provided with the frame (if you bought it)


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## MaineLotus (Jun 27, 2016)

wind_dre said:


> Yes. You just need the headset provided with the frame (if you bought it)


Yes, I did buy the headset with the frame. It has a lower split crown race, but wasn't sure whether to leave that part out.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Anyone have a good source for carbon forks? There is a nice one from carbon-cycle and its about a 1/5th the price of a haru


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

MaineLotus said:


> Yes, I did buy the headset with the frame. It has a lower split crown race, but wasn't sure whether to leave that part out.


You should mount it, otherwise the bearing will run on the carbon of the fork


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## EBG 18T (Dec 31, 2005)

MaineLotus said:


> Yes, I did buy the headset with the frame. It has a lower split crown race, but wasn't sure whether to leave that part out.


You need it. The split lower crown makes it easy for folks that may swap between girls often.


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## naksala (Aug 6, 2016)

Figured my question out. 

Loving this thread.

Bought 80mm Velobuild carbon rims and going to make them tubeless. Rim strips aren't supplied. Anyone know which size Surly Rimstrips to buy?


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## naksala (Aug 6, 2016)

EBG 18T said:


> You need it. The split lower crown makes it easy for folks that may swap between girls often.


Freudian slip?


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## EBG 18T (Dec 31, 2005)

naksala said:


> Freudian slip?


Lol. Yep. Girls & forks...


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

Cs-197 waiting for the trails to dry


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

kidd said:


> Cs-197 waiting for the trails to dry


Why dry? What's a fat bike for anyways?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Negotiator50 said:


> Why dry? What's a fat bike for anyways?


bloody good point


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## vid1900 (Jun 8, 2016)

Negotiator50 said:


> Why dry? What's a fat bike for anyways?


Usually you get your ass beat if you rut up the trails by riding them when they are muddy.

The guys that maintain them are always lurking around in the woods with broomsticks trying to endo people who go around the "Trails too wet - closed today" signs.

Of course, going on a mud slog is great fun on unmaintained trails!


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## Blazed (Apr 24, 2009)

How much do these builds cost all in? Just curious =)


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

I think you can do it for around $2000. Not sure. I am an eBay whore but mine was closer to $3000. I like building my own wheels and crankset is a custom cinch xx1 hybrid

P.S. I have spent allot of Time building trail. But more than that, I'm not the type that cleans their bikes often


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Anyone knows what size the drop-in headset for FM190? After 3 years the headset that came with the frame started to loosen up after every ride. I am prety sure i have everything installed and tightened properly, so i just narrowed it down to headset. Any idea? Thanks


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

brankulo said:


> Anyone knows what size the drop-in headset for FM190? After 3 years the headset that came with the frame started to loosen up after every ride. I am prety sure i have everything installed and tightened properly, so i just narrowed it down to headset. Any idea? Thanks


The headset should be two drop-in bearings. These bikes all use "IS" headsets now. Sorry, don't know the size. But with a set of calipers, you'll be able to get it. They're sold based on their O.D.

If it keeps losening up, its no likely the headset bearings (crunchy/grinding, creaking, maybe the bearings). The stem should be holding the bearing pre-load in place (the top cap tensions it so that the stem can keep the tension in place). If it's loosening and the headset gets loose, check that your stem is tight enough first and not allowing the headset to get loose. Or take it to a shop to have them have a look. On all my bikes, after tightning down the stem, I can completely remove my top cap during the ride and the headset never loosens up during/after a ride.


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## fortnern (Sep 14, 2016)

kidd said:


> I think you can do it for around $2000. Not sure. I am an eBay whore but mine was closer to $3000. I like building my own wheels and crankset is a custom cinch xx1 hybrid
> 
> P.S. I have spent allot of Time building trail. But more than that, I'm not the type that cleans their bikes often


So the lingering question I had on the CS-197 was compatibility with "narrow" cranks spaced for 170mm rears. What is the cinch xx1 hybrid crank? Would a regular xx1 crank clear the chainstays (as I understand it does on the FM190)?


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## mhokeli (Jun 1, 2015)

Have ordered the cs-n019 frame with carbon fork. Anybody know if the snowshoe 2xl will fitt on 100mm rims and clear the frame and fork ? 

Sent fra min SM-G930F via Tapatalk


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

mhokeli said:


> Have ordered the cs-n019 frame with carbon fork. Anybody know if the snowshoe 2xl will fitt on 100mm rims and clear the frame and fork ?
> 
> Sent fra min SM-G930F via Tapatalk


I have same frame, but I don't know. What I know is that I have DTSwiss BR2250 wheels (80mm rims) and I use Maxxis Minion 4,8" and there is space enough.
If you need, I can measure the space.


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## mhokeli (Jun 1, 2015)

Today my cs-n019 build was finished. 100mm wheelset. Seatpost and bar all from peter at xmcarbonspeed. 1x10 sunrace casset.xt gear.magura mt2 brakes. Next sl crank.jumbo jim 4.8 liteskin. 
This ended up on 10.74kg with heavy pedals. Shimano Saint flats. Are waiting on other pedals. 
First ride on ruff terrain was Great!! This bike is light weight and its climbs so fast  and the jumbo jim low rolling resistance is av perfect combo on a light bike.









Sent fra min SM-G930F via Tapatalk


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

mhokeli said:


> Today my cs-n019 build was finished. 100mm wheelset. Seatpost and bar all from peter at xmcarbonspeed. 1x10 sunrace casset.xt gear.magura mt2 brakes. Next sl crank.jumbo jim 4.8 liteskin.
> This ended up on 10.74kg with heavy pedals. Shimano Saint flats. Are waiting on other pedals.
> First ride on ruff terrain was Great!! This bike is light weight and its climbs so fast  and the jumbo jim low rolling resistance is av perfect combo on a light bike.
> 
> ...


Nice !!!
Wich is the weight for the wheelset and for the jumbo jim 4.8 ?


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## mhokeli (Jun 1, 2015)

Did not weight each item separatly so that i dont know.. 

Sent fra min SM-G930F via Tapatalk


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

what spokes and hubs are you running in those wheels? Bike looks awesome and that weight is phenomenal.


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## mhokeli (Jun 1, 2015)

Jefflinde said:


> what spokes and hubs are you running in those wheels? Bike looks awesome and that weight is phenomenal.


Just a standard 100mm wheelset from xmcarbonspeed 
Novatec hubs in them all i know

Sent fra min SM-G930F via Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK so I'm digging around trying to sort out a fat bike build. Since 170mm frames have become scarce to say the least (don't want to have b+ on a 190 frame) I'm thinking of building a 190mm frame and some 4.8ish tires. 

Since these frames cost as much as branded aluminum, are any of them holding up to be worth of a clyde (275 lbs) on nothing worse than smooth-ish xc trails? No drops, jumps. Nothing more than my 10 yr old could role on his 20". I like the look of carbon frames (could care less about the weight vs aluminum). And I'm not big on standing and mashing the hell outta things. Not need to on a fatty on my trails. This is the concern mainly as I enjoy my fat bike on the trails as much as my 29er.

And which "company" has been doing the best at maintaining lack of failures plus good warranty support?

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

Sorry if this has been covered but rather than sifting through 75 pages can you tell me which are the more reputable chinese fatties out there (reliable and good customer support)? Any idea if they are still making 170 rears? Thanks.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> OK so I'm digging around trying to sort out a fat bike build. Since 170mm frames have become scarce to say the least (don't want to have b+ on a 190 frame) I'm thinking of building a 190mm frame and some 4.8ish tires.
> 
> Since these frames cost as much as branded aluminum, are any of them holding up to be worth of a clyde (275 lbs) on nothing worse than smooth-ish xc trails? No drops, jumps. Nothing more than my 10 yr old could role on his 20". I like the look of carbon frames (could care less about the weight vs aluminum). And I'm not big on standing and mashing the hell outta things. Not need to on a fatty on my trails. This is the concern mainly as I enjoy my fat bike on the trails as much as my 29er.
> 
> ...


I would say Xmcarbonspeed although I've only bought rims from them. They had a fairly large problem with a full suspension fatty frame and most people seemed happy in the end. Peter is pretty good about answering emails. If you are worried about quick warranty replacements it may be better to stay on this continent and try Framed or LaMere.

The most likely point of failure will be the rear hub, the extra width makes them weaker. 197 rear hubs are thru axle, Onyx and DT Swiss are the safe choices. You should do some research to see what crankset will work best with your frame, chainline and chainstay width varies a lot.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

My concern isn't warranty turn around time, it's what are the realistic chances of having a warranty issue if I'm not beating the hell outta the bike? Basically which company has the best track record of lack of warranty failures?

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> My concern isn't warranty turn around time, it's what are the realistic chances of having a warranty issue if I'm not beating the hell outta the bike? Basically which company has the best track record of lack of warranty failures?
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


Honestly, I don't think it's possible to determine this. That's the issue with these companies and frames. The quality control is generally lacking so while the product is just as good as what you will get state side, the chances of cracks or failures is much greater.

After two of these frames failed on me (one with hairline cracks on the top tube and the other with a large crack on the seat tube), I was fed up with the headache of getting a warranty replacement and bought a trek frame.

It's pretty much a roll of the dice. If you get a "good" one, you will be set for years with an awesome bike. Get a "bad" one and you are stuck with the headache of trying to get it replaced and the risk of another failure.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> My concern isn't warranty turn around time, it's what are the realistic chances of having a warranty issue if I'm not beating the hell outta the bike? Basically which company has the best track record of lack of warranty failures?
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


Negotiator50 is right, there's no real way of knowing. It also doesn't matter if 10,000 170 pound riders did not break a certain frame. Most of these companies are just resellers that put a different name on a catalog frame. Most are built to EN standards and should be strong enough unless you get a bad frame. If there is a weight limitation on a frame the seller should tell you if you ask. It's in their best interests, a broken frame post on MTBR really damages their sales.

The rear wheel will be the weakest link, wider is weaker and the bigger diameter makes it worse. The amount of force you can put on the chain can flex a weak hub and destroy the ratchets in a split second. Be gentle on the steep hills. Aim for a 197mm thru axle frame and use a quality hub.


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## vid1900 (Jun 8, 2016)

tigris99 said:


> My concern isn't warranty turn around time, it's what are the realistic chances of having a warranty issue if I'm not beating the hell outta the bike? Basically which company has the best track record of lack of warranty failures?


You see brand name frames crack at the LBS, and you see no-name Chinese frames crack here on the forum.

No company I have ever heard of has posted their frame failure percentages.

If you are friendly with your local bike wrench, he can probably tell you a few horror stories about each brand.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

From everything i have read if you stay with Ican, Xmi Play, XM carbon speed, DengFu , HongFu and maybe TanTan you "should not have any more issues than if you went with a name brand. All can break but all should not break even for bigger dudes. not if you start trying to reenact red bull rampage you are screwed either way. 

just my .02. I went with a DengFu FM190 for myself and my wife for geo and clearance reasons. i am 245lbs out of the shower. they have held up great and are very light for what they are.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks guys. I'm not worried about wheel build. Salsa hubs on mulefuts. My mukluk has been bomb proof in the rear hub Dept. Well whole bike has been and I'm it's third owner.

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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

I have been communicating with Peter at Speed carbon Cycles and he has 170mm x 12 mm through axle frame. It is still not clear to me if this is compatible with my hope fatsno Hub which is 170 millimeter quick release or 177 millimeter through axle. Are there two different thru-axle standards 170 and 177 millimeters? Will my Hub work with this Frame?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes it will work. Flange spacing on the hub is no different (still 170mm). But for through axle they add 7mm for rear standards. So 135mm becomes 142mm, 170mm becomes 177mm and 190 becomes 197mm. Probably to make it easier for people to recognize the difference. Front hubs get a little more direct in the naming though.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

Actually there was a mix-up with the frames so they were truly 190 and 170 thru-axles, not 197 and 177 and big hub compatibility problems. Fortunately I learned that my Hope hubs have available endcaps that can convert to 170 or 177 thru-axle (HUB241 and 242 respectively). Peter insists this is 170mm thru axle and states a 177 thru-axle will not work. I might order both sets of endcaps and see which fits.


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## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

campykid said:


> Actually there was a mix-up with the frames so they were truly 190 and 170 thru-axles, not 197 and 177 and big hub compatibility problems. Fortunately I learned that my Hope hubs have available endcaps that can convert to 170 or 177 thru-axle (HUB241 and 242 respectively). Peter insists this is 170mm thru axle and states a 177 thru-axle will not work. I might order both sets of endcaps and see which fits.


This is true. I have an IP-10 and it is 170 T/A, not 177. The shorter end caps available from Hope made it work with the Fatsnow hub.

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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

Trevorrr,
Can you tell me what headset dimensions you have. Thanks.


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## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

campykid said:


> Trevorrr,
> Can you tell me what headset dimensions you have. Thanks.


IS42 / IS52 is the headset - lots of companies use this standard such as Niner. Iplay will likely also sell you one.

I am running a bluto, and there is a clearance issue with the fork crown/knobs and the downtube. I got a +5mm crown race from Niner to help with this issue and I still needed to grind the lockout knob down a bit to ensure the fork can turn around 90+ degrees.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Cane Creek also have a headset that fits, its actually a common size headset.

Regarding Bluto clearance, l believe that was/is only on the small frames, but l cant remember from which companies


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## traditiionalist (May 26, 2014)

Is there any chinese carbon frames with a 170 qr rear ?


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## afterhours (Sep 1, 2005)

traditiionalist said:


> Is there any chinese carbon frames with a 170 qr rear ?


I searched for quite a while and never found one, only 177 TA.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

I took my chinga fattie to the beach


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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

Just ordered 170 TA from Speedcarbon CS 010. Peter insists that it is 170TA, not 177TA. Just ordered endcaps for my Hope Fatsno hubs for 170TA. If it turns out to be 177 I can use different endcaps.


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Hey all a while back I built up one of these fatty's (FM 190) and for months its been sitting on the racks collecting dust. I have two(actually 3ish) issues that I hope to fix and get me back to riding my rig

For starters anyone have a recomended seat post collar that works well with this frame. I have tried everything but no matter what at 5nm the post will slip during rides. Its not the frame nor post but the seatpost collar. The bolt seems to back its self out some during rides. I have tried blue LT on it and the bolt seems to loosen up. That's nothing major but my second issue is something that has been bugging the heck out of me and I figured id ask to see if anyone is having similar problems. I posted about it a while back but never followed up on it. RL came about.

For what ever rhyme or reason when I seem to go over a log or go off any type of drop I find afterwards the headset will start to make a popping or creaking sound and I have to readjust the headset. I'm not sure if the bearing is just junk and a new headset will do the job or what. I am running a carbon stem with carbon paste on the steertube. I find that after I readjust it its good for a ride or so but will do it again. I also find that the compression plug (its not ever tightened by any means) makes the steertube dimension a bit thicker and it can be harder to remove the spacers and stem from the steertube. I have had this prior with cheaper carbon forks and wondering if anyone else has seen this with there FM 190. 

The bike has been solid from the riding I have done on it but those few issues have kind of had me shelf the bike. Id like to get it back in the trails but I find id rather not ride something I have to tinker with while out with my friends.


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## afterhours (Sep 1, 2005)

ian0789 said:


> For starters anyone have a recomended seat post collar that works well with this frame. I have tried everything but no matter what at 5nm the post will slip during rides. Its not the frame nor post but the seatpost collar. The bolt seems to back its self out some during rides. I have tried blue LT on it and the bolt seems to loosen up.


I think the seat post tube on the FM190 is on the larger side and hence it plays better with some seat posts than others. It does not agree with my EC90 one bit but I just did a 2.5 hour ride with a raceface post that in other frames i found to be extremely tight fitting and while using my new seat post collar I had no slippage. This is the collar i'm using at the moment, i thought the double bolt plus larger clamping area would help. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dur...ng-abrazadera-tija-31-8-34-9/32346302131.html



ian0789 said:


> For what ever rhyme or reason when I seem to go over a log or go off any type of drop I find afterwards the headset will start to make a popping or creaking sound and I have to readjust the headset. I'm not sure if the bearing is just junk and a new headset will do the job or what. I am running a carbon stem with carbon paste on the steertube. I find that after I readjust it its good for a ride or so but will do it again.


A loose headset after riding generally indicates the stem isn't staying place. If you have the option maybe give another stem a try?


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

afterhours said:


> I think the seat post tube on the FM190 is on the larger side and hence it plays better with some seat posts than others. It does not agree with my EC90 one bit but I just did a 2.5 hour ride with a raceface post that in other frames i found to be extremely tight fitting and while using my new seat post collar I had no slippage. This is the collar i'm using at the moment, i thought the double bolt plus larger clamping area would help. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dur...ng-abrazadera-tija-31-8-34-9/32346302131.html
> 
> A loose headset after riding generally indicates the stem isn't staying place. If you have the option maybe give another stem a try?


O dude thank you so much that's what I was looking for a double bolt! I feel that will do the job. That seat tube is massive and I agree it is also probably why the frame doesn't like some posts. I had them send me a new collar and a new headset to see if that fixes the issues. I also had some solid luck my last ride. The post didn't slip after 2hrs of riding but the bolt did need to be torqued back down so that is def going to be swapped out for the new collar and probably going to order one of the 2x bolts you linked. The headset didn't loosen up on me or start making any popping sounds during that ride. I used a different torque wrench and went to 5nm and everything stayed snug. Possibly the Ritchey torque 5nm preset one was under spec by a bit and causing the headset to loosen up during a ride.


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

Also check out the Salsa lip lock. I'm one of the heavier riders here and it holds my Thomson seat post like a rock. 
Lip-Lock | Parts & Accessories | Salsa Cycles


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## ian0789 (Jul 15, 2013)

Bunyan said:


> Also check out the Salsa lip lock. I'm one of the heavier riders here and it holds my Thomson seat post like a rock.
> Lip-Lock | Parts & Accessories | Salsa Cycles


They have that in a 37mm collar? That would be nice as well!


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## Bunyan (Dec 16, 2007)

ian0789 said:


> They have that in a 37mm collar? That would be nice as well!


I must have jammed a 36.4mm on there. 
Salsa makes great quality seat post locks.

Sorry for the dusty bike pic. 


















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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Anyone know the difference between the dengfu fm190 and the newer 191? Have had an fm190 for 2 years and has been flawless


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

The 191 looks like it has internal dropper post routing. Based only in the shape of the bb area only. You will want to confirm with Dengfu directly.

191 has slightly longer reach by millimetres. But shorter wheelbase by a few mm. However chainstay are same length. 191 has shorter head tube so the stack is going to be lower. So you will need more headset spacers if you want a more upright position.

Based on these very minor differences, I'd say the only major difference is the internal dropper routing (if I'm right) and lower stack.



manchvegas said:


> Anyone know the difference between the dengfu fm190 and the newer 191? Have had an fm190 for 2 years and has been flawless


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

the only thing i could see what slight changes in the Geo. slightly shorter top tube i believe on the 191.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

looks like a lower stack height and head tube length. I have 2 years of solid riding on my fm190 and have loved it. I do think it's a little big for me though, so I might order a new 191 in a med. that would also allow me to run some spacers and a regular size stem instead of a super shorty...


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Planning to get a FM190 and now I'm looking at groupset options.

Where are people getting their drivetrain and brakes? I am looking for a high-end fatbike SRAM 1x11 groupset (complete drivetrain and brakes) in a box, but haven't found exactly what I am looking for online. Either it's low end SRAM, it doesn't include the brakes, it doesn't include the crankset, it includes the crankset, but it's the wrong size/type bottom bracket, etc. 

Obviously, I could buy all of these parts separate, but I am hoping to source them from one place to cut down on shipping & brokerage/handling fees & hassle.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I always get my mechanical bits from Chain reaction cycles. they have all the different levels and usually have some sort of bundle going. usually not for a fat bike but you can get all the shifting related pats in a group and then add crankset and brakes.

EDIT: Sorry didn't register that you wanted Sram. CRC does not really do Sram so my suggestions was useless.



ray.vermette said:


> Planning to get a FM190 and now I'm looking at groupset options.
> 
> Where are people getting their drivetrain and brakes? I am looking for a high-end fatbike SRAM 1x11 groupset (complete drivetrain and brakes) in a box, but haven't found exactly what I am looking for online. Either it's low end SRAM, it doesn't include the brakes, it doesn't include the crankset, it includes the crankset, but it's the wrong size/type bottom bracket, etc.
> 
> Obviously, I could buy all of these parts separate, but I am hoping to source them from one place to cut down on shipping & brokerage/handling fees & hassle.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

So in MN we finally have cold weather so i just get my FM190 switched over to some studded shoes. set these D5's up tubeless this year and so far everything is holding up. can't wait for some good snow to get out and play. until then i will be on my wife 27.5+ setup.


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## Rahkne (Nov 29, 2016)

Hi all, I'm new to the world of fatbikes, however, not new to bike building. This has been a great thread for guidence. I'll share my build and am sure I'll run into some unexpected.. 

I am a little concerned with my headset of choice. I've noticed ppl using both 41/28.6 and 42/28.6 (for the top) with out issue. The 41 or 42 represents the inside bore of the headtube. En route is a ican 18" sn01 carbon frame/fork. I ordered a canecreek 110 41/28.6.... anyone use the 41 and found the fit wasn't quite snug enough?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I own a fm190 so YMMV with my response. However I think a 1mm variance in tolerance from frame to frame may not be too much of a stretch on these frames (I also own an VB-016 open mould carbon road frame). So what maybwork for one sn01 owner may be different from yours. 

My only advice is that you'll need to wait for your frame to arrive and find out. 

Because of this, I have always ordered the Neco headset from the same frame seller st the time of frame purchase. So if it didn't fit properly I could go back to them for the right part. And I've only ever been charged $15usd for the full headset with carbon compression plug.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

CRC no longer sells SRAM to any customers outside of Europe. They will block all SRAM products based on your IP address.

If you're in Europe you can still get SRAM from CRC.



Jefflinde said:


> I always get my mechanical bits from Chain reaction cycles. they have all the different levels and usually have some sort of bundle going. usually not for a fat bike but you can get all the shifting related pats in a group and then add crankset and brakes.
> 
> EDIT: Sorry didn't register that you wanted Sram. CRC does not really do Sram so my suggestions was useless.


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## MammothSlacker (Jan 3, 2014)

Has anyone ordered a 2017 Dengfu FM191? And if so does this frame have routing for a stealth dropper post? I doesn't look like it in the photos but I can't tell for sure. 

Thanks for the help,


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## traditiionalist (May 26, 2014)

I asked this before, but is there any frames with a 170 qr rear?


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

MammothSlacker said:


> Has anyone ordered a 2017 Dengfu FM191? And if so does this frame have routing for a stealth dropper post? I doesn't look like it in the photos but I can't tell for sure.
> 
> Thanks for the help,


I have one on order. I'll ask and report back.

- Edit: email sent to Dengfu this morning (Monday). Sorry for the delay.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

traditiionalist said:


> I asked this before, but is there any frames with a 170 qr rear?


Google, "carbon fat bike 170". Several will come up.


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## Rahkne (Nov 29, 2016)

Roger that, I'll just practice patients and wait. 

In regards to the "120mm" bsa bottom bracket, my understanding is there is no sleeve that works to protect the spindle from (what I need it for) salt water. There is a crank/Bb combo from ican labeled as 120mm, can anyone confirm that the sleeve is usable and it's not what raceface does, uses cup, spacers, 120 spindle and no sleeve? Is there another option out there in way of usable sleeves? 

Thanks


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

MammothSlacker said:


> Has anyone ordered a 2017 Dengfu FM191? And if so does this frame have routing for a stealth dropper post? I doesn't look like it in the photos but I can't tell for sure.


Melody from Dengufu says no.

- edit - : just got word the frame and parts shipped this morning, so I should know for sure in about a week.


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## puhrot (Dec 10, 2007)

I just ordered a CS-197 frame from carbon speed.

Does anyone have a recommendation for BB and Crankset for this frame?


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## outlanderx7 (Feb 18, 2016)

I just finished mine and will post details shortly. I was able to run a 170mm width Race Face Turbine Cinch with adequate clearance to the chain stays. I also used their BSA 30mm BB in 100mm width to match the 30mm crank axle. Everything fit up nicely with teh supplied spacers.


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## outlanderx7 (Feb 18, 2016)

*CS-197 Build*

Hey there. This is my first real post. I've been following this thread for several months now. Thanks for all of the information as it has really helped with my build. I ended up with the CS-197 from XM Carbon Speed. Peter was great to work with and always quick to respond. The frame arrived in less than a week. Everything went together without any issues, just a few things worth mentioning. The internally routed cable/hose ports are run point-to-point so no fishing around to get things sorted out. The lower headset went in with a light press fit, the upper was more of a slip fit but there is no play. I was able to run a 170mm width crankset with the 190 rear for a lower Q-factor. My build list with actual weights is below along with some pics. Thanks again to everyone for all of the information, much appreciated. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to know about it.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

Same bb and spindle here with SRAM xx1 168q bb30 crank arms.


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## puhrot (Dec 10, 2007)

Awesome thanks!

Just to be clear, you are both referring to the 170mm spindle width, correct? 

If so, it looks like plenty of clearance on the frame, but does it limit tire clearance at all with the slightly narrower chain line? Or are you just flipping the chainring around to bring the chain back inline and to clear a larger tire?

What size tires are the two of you running and what position is the rear axle in?

Also, what length crank arm did you go with, 170mm or 175mm? I am a taller guy and would love to go with the 175mm crank arm length if there is room for it.


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## LurkerJono (May 15, 2016)

Hi Puhot,

I have cs-197. I purchased a raceface affect crankset for 170/177mm my build to try and keep the cost down and reduce q factor. That particular crankset will not fit this bike, I only had 1.5mm clearance on each side. When pedaling under load the cranks would hit. So changed to raceface affect 190/197mm wide, fits fine. In hind sight I should spent a little more money and higher spec cranks, but this was due to my impatience.

Here is a pic ->









Jono


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

*Cs-197*

What position are you guys running for the reversible chip? It's supposed to make the chainstays 450 or 465 mm long...


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## LurkerJono (May 15, 2016)

RagerXS said:


> What position are you guys running for the reversible chip? It's supposed to make the chainstays 450 or 465 mm long...


I'm using the front position. Plenty of clearance for Bulldozer tires.

Jono


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

LurkerJono said:


> I'm using the front position. Plenty of clearance for Bulldozer tires.
> 
> Jono


Thanks, Jono. Nice looking bike, by the way.

Fred


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

*Which Carbon Frame?*

I've been researching the various frames available from the recommended sellers and have narrowed my choices to these:

Carbon Speed CS197
FM190 from DengFu, Carbon Speed, TanTan, or XmiPlay as the IP-M190
ICAN SN01 / XmiPlay IP-018 / TanTan FM197 (looks like the same frame from different sellers, but no common part# like the FM190)
ICAN SN03 / XmiPlay IP-010
DengFu FM191
Framed Alaskan (not cheap Chinese direct, but intriguing at 999)
I think I like the CS197 most, though there are a lot of success stories with the FM190 and the SN01. Of course it would be a blast to build one of each and just keep the one I like the most, but in the real world you have to choose one and hope to avoid buyer's remorse.

Few of you will have experience with more than one of these options so I'm primarily looking for the pros and cons of these frames based on what you have learned about them.

Fred


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## outlanderx7 (Feb 18, 2016)

Yes, 170mm spindle width. Typically this is sized to match the rear hub which is 197 on the CS-197. Fortunately, the narrow setup with the right cranks works on this frame.

My chainring is not flipped and I could still go with a wider tire. If you wanted to fit the biggest one in there, flipping the chainring should provide enough clearance.

I'm running the Specialized Ground Control 4" mounted on 65mm Marge Lite rims in the front position. They measure 3.75" at the widest point. 

My cranks are 170mm long but there looks to be plenty of clearance for 175mm.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm curious about the reasons between choices myself. Seemed a lot of people were choosing the fm19X when I purchased, but I went with the new '17 CS-197 in xl. Cockpit feel is pretty close to what I'm used to(i like longer front center). Bike jumps and manuals pretty well, even chipped back(it came that way & I'm lazy). I never even look at standover, but this one's pretty tight for me. Dropper at max insertion.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

RagerXS said:


> I've been researching the various frames available from the recommended sellers and have narrowed my choices to these:
> 
> Carbon Speed CS197
> FM190 from DengFu, Carbon Speed, TanTan, or XmiPlay as the IP-M190
> ...


I built up a SN01 last year. I ordered direct from ICAN and purchased it as a complete bike build.

Vendor ok to deal with; did not have to wait long. Great bike, except it would not accommodate a Lou 4.8 on the rear on 90mm wheels. It rubbed on the chainstays. Largest tire I can fit in the back is Dunderbeast 4.6, and it's a very close fit. Also the headset kept working loose, which seems to be a common complaint with some Chinese bikes. A new top cap with expander bolt fixed that. It has rack mounts, if that is a feature you are looking for.

I've been told the FM190 will accommodate Lou 4.8 on 100mm rims. I contacted DengFu about ordering one, but was told the FM190 has been discontinued. I ordered a FM191 instead. From what I've read here, the frame is virtually identical except I think the top and head tubes measurements/angles are slightly different. Should be getting it in the mail shortly, about 4 weeks after ordering. The wheels arrived over a week ago. I'll post up here once I get the bike and build it up.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I would go with the Dengfu. I have two of their frames sets and two wheel sets. also bars/stem/seat post. melody is great to deal with and i have heard good things about their warrant claims. reversed personally but members have and it worked out well.


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## jet9pilot (May 2, 2011)

I got a FM191 from Dengfu about 2 weeks ago. I really like it so far but only have one ride on it. I have a bud & lou on it and it weighs 24.75lbs. The only thing I am not happy about so far, I wanted to use 170mm crank and it didn't have enough clearance. So I am running 190mm crankset. Otherwise very happy. Hopefully I will get some more rides in this weekend.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

LurkerJono said:


> In hind sight I should spent a little more money and higher spec cranks
> 
> Jono


hey Jono,

Can you elaborate on why you shouldve got higher spec crank? is there something wrong with the Aeffect crank?

I ask as I was thinking og getting the Aeffect.

Cheers

Chris


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

ray.vermette said:


> I built up a SN01 last year. I ordered direct from ICAN and purchased it as a complete bike build.
> 
> Vendor ok to deal with; did not have to wait long. Great bike, except it would not accommodate a Lou 4.8 on the rear on 90mm wheels. It rubbed on the chainstays. Largest tire I can fit in the back is Dunderbeast 4.6, and it's a very close fit. Also the headset kept working loose, which seems to be a common complaint with some Chinese bikes. A new top cap with expander bolt fixed that. It has rack mounts, if that is a feature you are looking for.
> 
> I've been told the FM190 will accommodate Lou 4.8 on 100mm rims. I contacted DengFu about ordering one, but was told the FM190 has been discontinued. I ordered a FM191 instead. From what I've read here, the frame is virtually identical except I think the top and head tubes measurements/angles are slightly different. Should be getting it in the mail shortly, about 4 weeks after ordering. The wheels arrived over a week ago. I'll post up here once I get the bike and build it up.


Ray, thanks a ton for this. I'm a huge fan of Bud/Lou so I would have been heartbroken if I were to buy a carbon frame that can't accommodate them. I'll cross the SN01 and clones off my list.

Fred


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

That's why I got the cs-197. It has more room in the 450mm position than a bluto. Similar angles to the sn01, but it has a 100mm threaded bottom bracket


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## allenc (Dec 14, 2015)

Not my Xmas gift though, my size is 19'', hope they would have 19'' closeout as well  CS-197 Fatbike Frame 17.5? | Carbon Speed Bikes


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## tybiker25 (Dec 15, 2016)

The closeout is for an IS mounted rear brake. Only 17.5" available. I got my CS-197 a couple weeks ago and love it. It has a direct post mount brake now.

They are running a sale on the CS-197 in all sizes for $430 without the fork and $560 with the fork. CS-197 Fatbike Frame | Carbon Speed Bikes


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## tybiker25 (Dec 15, 2016)

*CS-197 Clearance. Surly Bud and Lou combo.*

I'm running a Surly Bud and Lou. Both are 4.8" on 80mm wide rims. The rear dropout is in the rear position. Plenty of clearance for up to a 5" tire. And I'm thinking of moving the rear dropout to the forward position with this rear tire.


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## LurkerJono (May 15, 2016)

Hi Chris,

So I bought a cs197 frame, needed some cranks for it. I decided on the aeffect cranks spaced for 170/177 and use flipped chain ring. I had to shim it to fit and needed up with 1mm(40thou) clearance on the chain stays and that is not enough. Now I did try and get the crank arm clearance from Raceface, but they don't publish it and don't reply to emails. So ended up using the aeffect 190/197 cranks instead. So it all my fault for not doing my research properly.

The issue is the aeffect cranks poke inwards right were the chain stay bulges out. Keep in mind the cs197 can take 5inch tires and you move wheel back and forwards.

But you will see that other have got other 170/177mm spacing cranks to work. Just not the aeffect cranks.

BTW this frame best replacement I have found for the on-one fatty geo wise.

Jono



cmg71 said:


> hey Jono,
> 
> Can you elaborate on why you shouldve got higher spec crank? is there something wrong with the Aeffect crank?
> 
> ...


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks for the info Jono


----------



## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

I'm on CS-N019 frame (from XMCarbonSpeed) I'm using maxxis minion 4,8" and there is still space for 5,0".
Crankset: Race Face Aeffect 170/177mm. I have only 2-3 mm clearance space with the chainstays, but is enough.
I flipped the chainring (race face 32 tooth).


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

wind_dre said:


> I'm on CS-N019 frame (from XMCarbonSpeed) I'm using maxxis minion 4,8" and there is still space for 5,0".
> Crankset: Race Face Aeffect 170/177mm. I have only 2-3 mm clearance space with the chainstays, but is enough.
> I flipped the chainring (race face 32 tooth).


I want to get some Minions as well, but am worried about width.

What width is your rim?
Can you measure the widest point on the tyre? only on the Minion FBR as up front I have more than enough room.

Cheers
Chris


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

cmg71 said:


> I want to get some Minions as well, but am worried about width.
> 
> What width is your rim?
> Can you measure the widest point on the tyre? only on the Minion FBR as up front I have more than enough room.
> ...


My rims are (internal measurement based on DTSwiss specs) 76 mm. They are DTSwiss BR2250.
I will measure it tomorrow, cause I have the bike in another home.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

cmg71 said:


> I want to get some Minions as well, but am worried about width.
> 
> What width is your rim?
> Can you measure the widest point on the tyre? only on the Minion FBR as up front I have more than enough room.
> ...


Hi
I've measured 114mm.
Not very exactly because I don't have a gauge here. Hope it helps !


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks mate 😀


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Dengfu FM 191 frame arrived yesterday and I built it up. Bud and Lou on 100mm rims fit. Somewhere between 5 and 10mm clearance at the chainstays in the back. Not a tonne of room, but enough that I'm not worried about rub. Chain clears no problem.

I ordered their seatpost. It was too short and the clamping mechanism was a PITA. Luckily, the SN01 I built up last year has the same diameter seatpost and I was able to swap them.

Complete build weight, 17.5" frame with pedals, 1x11 SRAM, bud and lou on 100mm set up tubeless: 27 pounds on the dot.

And for the poster that asked earlier: I can confirm there is no routing for an internal dropper post. Internal cable routing appears the same as for the FM 190: rear brake and rear derailleur on the right, front derailleur (if you use it) on the left.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

ray.vermette said:


> I ordered their seatpost. It was too short and the clamping mechanism was a PITA. Luckily, the SN01 I built up last year has the same diameter seatpost and I was able to swap them.


Sorry, what PITA does it mean ??


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

PITA = pain in the ass


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Jefflinde said:


> PITA = pain in the ass


Ok !! Understood ! Thnks !!


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

ray.vermette said:


> And for the poster that asked earlier: I can confirm there is no routing for an internal dropper post. Internal cable routing appears the same as for the FM 190: rear brake and rear derailleur on the right, front derailleur (if you use it) on the left.


If you dont have a front derailleur, can you route thr dropper internally there?


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Just kidding. PITA = pain in the a$$


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

*CS-197 Cranks*

Which RaceFace cranks are preferred? I see at least one person is using a 170/177 set but with only a couple MM of clearance. Is that enough room to prevent shoe rub on the stays?

Fred


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Is ICan fat bike frame durable?
https://www.icancycling.com/collect...t-with-shimano-xt-groupset?variant=1646734915

I am considering buying this Chinese fat bike.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

For your knees, the shorter, the better ! So if you have any mm clearence, I recommend you 170/177.
IMHO shoe rub is not possible if you have at least 2 mm, because the crank arm does not flex in this direction !!


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

In my case, the space that I have between stays and crank arm is less than a tube thickness !!
I normally protect the right stay with a tube, and when I put the tube, the crank arm rubbed. I had to cut the tube in this area.
Without the tube, the crank arm never rubbed the stay.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Picard said:


> Is ICan fat bike frame durable?
> https://www.icancycling.com/collect...t-with-shimano-xt-groupset?variant=1646734915
> 
> I am considering buying this Chinese fat bike.


Luck of the draw. It could be rock solid for years or you could go through two warranty claims in less than a year like I did. That's the nature of buying from the mainland.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Picard said:


> Is ICan fat bike frame durable?
> https://www.icancycling.com/collect...t-with-shimano-xt-groupset?variant=1646734915
> 
> I am considering buying this Chinese fat bike.


My frame has been great, a few bad stacks etc and has held up, but as mentioned above it may be luck of the draw. Im now up to 6700 kms in 18 months.

My review: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/chinese-carbon-fatbike-sn01-1-year-down-1009858.html


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Thanks for the reviews guys


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

cmg71 said:


> If you dont have a front derailleur, can you route thr dropper internally there?


TL;DR: I don't think so.

The internal routing for the front derailleur goes in the top tube on the left side and emerges from the top tube on the left.

If you have a dropper post with an external cable, I suppose you could route the cable through the frame for that short portion, provided the cable will fit. The derailleur cable holes on my frame were not made wide enough for continuous housing. You might be able to drill them to make the openings wider, but even if you do that, I don't know if there will be room internally for the cable housing. The frame appears to have -- at least for the brake hose anyway -- dedicated channels for the cables. What I mean by that, is I fed the rear brake hose into the frame at the chainstay opening, and it came out at the opposite end without me having to fish around for it inside the frame.

If you have an internally-routed dropper post with the cable emerging from the bottom of the post, you are S.O.L., I'm afraid.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Dedicated channels kills the idea.
I figured going down around the BB then up to the steerer tube and then out might be an option. My ICAN doesnt have dedicated channels.


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## hilltopcrew (Jun 30, 2010)

Might be able to add a spacer to give the bluto room to clear.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Picard said:


> Is ICan fat bike frame durable?
> https://www.icancycling.com/collect...t-with-shimano-xt-groupset?variant=1646734915
> 
> I am considering buying this Chinese fat bike.


I bought the ICAN SN01 complete build last year, but with 1x11 SRAM instead of XT.

It held up. My only complaints are: 1) largest tire I could fit in the rear was 4.6 Dunderbeast; 4.8 Lou did not fit, and 2) headset kept working loose; $20 FSA top cap and expander bolt solved this problem.

Rode it to work in the winter about 2-3 times/week on average, 1-2 fatbike rides/week on singletrack snow, and a few rides on dirt in the fall and spring, on technical rocky trails.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Borels is made in China too. why is it so expensive?


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## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

Picard said:


> Borels is made in China too. why is it so expensive?


Its better if you ask same thing SC, yeti, "c", "S" or other +5k$ bike owners


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Almost all bike frames are made in China. But more expensive means it's made to higher standards. Not hard to figure out. Warranty, better quality control, up to date (not a copy cat) design, all of that costs more. The cheap frames are copies of what the brand names did the R&D and such for already. 

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> Almost all bike frames are made in China. But more expensive means it's made to higher standards. Not hard to figure out. Warranty, better quality control, up to date (not a copy cat) design, all of that costs more. The cheap frames are copies of what the brand names did the R&D and such for already.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


Or more expensive means they advertise, market, and do all of the other things that add to costs. But use the same product.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya I forgot that part. But one thing I've learned in direct from China is big lack of quality control as they don't watch tolerances near as closely. Add in what you listed (which is probably 1/3 of the price) then a warranty that shouldn't take months to get sorted.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## LurkerJono (May 15, 2016)

*CS-197 cranks*

Hi Fred,

I tried using the aeffect crank 170/177. It would not work on the cs-197 frame. I could get about 1mm clearance both sides, but putting any power down, resulted in the crank arms hitting the chain stays. After checking my friends bike, I'm thinking the affect cranks in 170/177 will not work on a lot of 190/197 rear spacing frames.

Jono



RagerXS said:


> Which RaceFace cranks are preferred? I see at least one person is using a 170/177 set but with only a couple MM of clearance. Is that enough room to prevent shoe rub on the stays?
> 
> Fred


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

My skinny bike is a "cheaper" Santa Cruz "c" frame. The quality isn't even in the same ballpark, let alone sport. 

My xm190 had the chainsuck guard peeling off the frame and my upper headset race was bent out of the box. All they offered was an apology. The clearcoat is much more fragile and scratches/scuffs easy. The brake line guides were drilled and riveted as an after thought, where my SCs are molded and nice looking. The seat tube water bottle threads prevent me from dropping my seat post all the way. The rear through axle interface is a bit janky. There are a ton of little things like that, not to mention a nearly non existent warranty. 

That being said, I don't think it's a bad value but you can't talk crap on people that choose to pass on these frames. It works well, the geometry is spot on and it's held up to my abuse. 

I figured if i had to warranty the frame I'd just buy a name brand aluminum frame, but all is good so far. It's been a good purchase and I'd do it again knowing what i know now. I only plan on riding it 3-4 months of the year so i didn't feel like dropping a ton of money on it.


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## outlanderx7 (Feb 18, 2016)

I used the Turbine Cinch 170/177 crankset and ended up with about 5mm clearance. So far no issues with shoe rub and that's with some wide soles winter hiking boots.


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## Flawless Cowboy (Sep 7, 2015)

My replacement FM190 frame from early this year went strong all summer and is now sporting a Do Little bike seat. First lap near the house with the kiddo was promising!


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Utahbikemike said:


> My skinny bike is a "cheaper" Santa Cruz "c" frame. The quality isn't even in the same ballpark, let alone sport.
> 
> My xm190 had the chainsuck guard peeling off the frame and my upper headset race was bent out of the box. All they offered was an apology. The clearcoat is much more fragile and scratches/scuffs easy. The brake line guides were drilled and riveted as an after thought, where my SCs are molded and nice looking. The seat tube water bottle threads prevent me from dropping my seat post all the way. The rear through axle interface is a bit janky. There are a ton of little things like that, not to mention a nearly non existent warranty.
> 
> ...


From whom did you purchase your FM190?


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

outlanderx7 said:


> I used the Turbine Cinch 170/177 crankset and ended up with about 5mm clearance. So far no issues with shoe rub and that's with some wide soles winter hiking boots.


Which frame? CS-197?


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

Nice thread here, was reading it for some time. As my current fat bike frame have failed (branded alu one), and now in warranty process, decided that it would make sense to build carbon one to have a backup. 100mm carbon rims from ebay/china worked great for me so far, so why not to try whole frame...

So ICAN SN02 frame is now in travel, for some reason liked such design the most (plus its 197mm rear and 100mm BB - exactly same as my current alu bike, can move parts between bikes). From what I have found so far this frame works OK with 170mm Raceface cranks (i.e. 203mm q-factor), and should accept 4.8 tires on 90+mm rims with no (much) rubbing issues. No info on Bluto compatibility so far. 

In short the plan is to use 222 q-factor Raceface Turbine Cinch (my current bike uses this q-factor and I am perfectly fine with it), go with 26T chainring and 10-42T SRAM casette/shifters, put 4.8 JJ on 100mm rims from my current bike, add 100mm Bluto, also transfer reverb dropper...
Problems that I expect so far:
1) Bluto might not clear on rotation, especially remote lock version I have... Will need to find washers/axle crowns. 
2) Putting non-stealth reverb cable into front derailer built-in casing might be problematic (it seems there is casing in the frame already for the shifter cable and obviously hydraulic cable will not fit without removing that casing first)
3) There was no 100% confirmation that 4.8 tubeless on 100rims will fit with no rubbing. The situation must be better then with 445 chainstay frames though. I might consider going to newer 4.5 JJ in worst scenario.

Hopefully might be able to write something back in the next year. Thanks for the discussion/all the info. :>


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

foresterLV said:


> with 26T chainring and 10-42T SRAM casette/shifters,


You must have some bloody steep hills where you are .............. 26/42???

or did you mean 36T?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I ride with a 26 in the winter too on my fat bike. Many of us don't have groomed trails and such to ride during the winter time. We make our own by just going out plowing through on our fat bikes. No need for high gearing because you won't be able to get the speed. Pushing through snow and being able to climb whatever we find while carrying a fair amount of extra weight in clothing and boots we need to be able to sit and spin.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

cmg71 said:


> You must have some bloody steep hills where you are .............. 26/42???
> 
> or did you mean 36T?


26...
It depends on riding style I guess - on steep climbs I prefer to be in saddle and lean over bars. You can keep nice cadence this way and get up easily but slowly. When I stand up (in higher gear) I loose traction very easy (i.e. rear starts to slip) and thats all - time to walk. Need to train to be able to climb standing up, then chainring can be bigger.

And indeed when its unpacked snow resistance to climb is even bigger. 
My current bike setup is 30x11-45t, use 45t cog alot, and I never use 30x11 on the trails and even on pavement (well maybe for short sprints), want to try 26x10-42 on new bike.

Sent from my SM-G900F


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

On 4.7s at my weight already the 11t doesn't happen for long on pavement unless it's a down grade. 26/42 I havent found anything I can't sit and spin on up. Summer time I jump to my 28t. Don't have anything that I need more gear for trails or anything.

I couldn't imagine riding a 4.7 fat bike on a 36t unless I was some feather weight racer and had some seriously fast and open trails with long descents. I don't even ride that gearing on my 29er.

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> On 4.7s at my weight already the 11t doesn't happen for long on pavement unless it's a down grade. 26/42 I havent found anything I can't sit and spin on up. Summer time I jump to my 28t. Don't have anything that I need more gear for trails or anything.
> 
> I couldn't imagine riding a 4.7 fat bike on a 36t unless I was some feather weight racer and had some seriously fast and open trails with long descents. I don't even ride that gearing on my 29er.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


Having ridden a fatbike on snow exactly twicee, I concur.

I'm 143lbs and a super shitty pro XC racer, and I think the largest I'd go on snow, 1x, is 30t. Unless I found myself doing one of those DH races on groomed ski runs. I run a 34t x 10-42t on 29x2.2s on my race bike in CO/WY and VA/NC, for reference.

A bigger chainring would make getting going from a dead stop brutal.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

Xmcarbonspeed. Peter was my contact. I was able to straighten the race pretty easy


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

cmg71 said:


> You must have some bloody steep hills where you are .............. 26/42???
> 
> or did you mean 36T?


I run a 24t with my 1x11. Some days i was debating putting a 22t on.

3 hours of pushing a bike through 6" of powder gets rough


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I haven't found a direct mount raceface compatible to go 24t otherwise this year I would have, got more snow this year than last. Its not bad for the first little bit as is but as you said, bit doesn't take long before your legs are burning.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Looking at the Chinese carbon frames, it seems like most of them are BSA.

I'd be looking to get a BSA to 30mm axle BB. Something like the Wheels Mfg. BSA to 30mm Angular Contact BB. 

Do any companies make a product like this for a 100mm BB shell? I realize I could just run the 68/73mm product without the inner sleeve, but I think the sleeve might be useful for reducing or eliminating a source of moisture into the bearings.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> I realize I could just run the 68/73mm product without the inner sleeve, but I think the sleeve might be useful for reducing or eliminating a source of moisture into the bearings.


It can (on the flipside) also trap water in and allow more time to penetrate the bearings.
Each to their own, but l prefer no inner sleeve, and regardless, BBs arent that expensive.


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> I'd be looking to get a BSA to 30mm axle BB. Something like the Wheels Mfg. BSA to 30mm Angular Contact BB.


Raceface Cinch 100mm BB have 30mm spindle diameter (on some sites its marked as BSA30), not sure on what is "Angular Contact" though.

Sent from my SM-G900F


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Looking at getting a CS-197 from XMcarbonspeed. I've purchased from Peter before with great results.

Anyone have one of these yet? It has a flip chip on each dropout to change the CS length. I probably wouldn't be running it 27.5 fat any time soon, but nice to have that capability.

Would be looking to build it up with 80mm rims, 26x4.5-4.8 tires, rigid fork. Aiming for under 25lbs. 

Probably Build List:
XMI CS-197 frame/fork
Cane Creek 40 headset
Syntace FlatForce stem
Syntace Vector Carbon 740mm
Wheels BSA-BB30 
RaceFace 170mm spindle
Cannondale Hollowgram SiSL 170mm with SRM
RockShox Reverb
SRAM XX1 drivetrain
Shimano XTR M985 brakes
80mm carbon hoops, DT Swiss Big Ride/350 in 150x15mm, 197x12m, CX-Rays
Jumbo Jim 26x4.8

Not super pleased with the 120mm head tube on this frame, though. Would prefer closer to 100mm.


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

I bet that build is way below 25


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## outlanderx7 (Feb 18, 2016)

RagerXS said:


> Which frame? CS-197?


Yes, the CS-197.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

A while back there were some companies offering frame/fork/rim or frame/fork/wheel combos at a slightly reduced rate compared to the sum of the components. Not to mention, reduced shipping costs. Do any of the main companies still offer them? 

I've looked a few times now and can't find anything, but I'm sure I've overlooked something with their constantly changing websites.

After something that can fit a 4.8 and 80mm rims.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> A while back there were some companies offering frame/fork/rim or frame/fork/wheel combos at a slightly reduced rate compared to the sum of the components. Not to mention, reduced shipping costs. Do any of the main companies still offer them?
> 
> I've looked a few times now and can't find anything, but I'm sure I've overlooked something with their constantly changing websites.
> 
> After something that can fit a 4.8 and 80mm rims.


The only time I saw pricing was on Amazon, ebay, alibaba, etc. When you buy direct from the seller via their website you have to contact them to ask for pricing, and in my limited experience most will offer a small discount on a package deal. Choose your frame, then contact a vendor...


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

Chen from icanbikes mentioned that they have some kind of promotion on 90mm carbon wheels (~600 usd with shipping?) until end of this year.
They do such things from time to time I guess.

Received my SN02 frame yesterday, will have some happy building next weeks.










Sent from my SM-G900F


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice that frame actually looks like it built to last a while. I've always loved the lines shapes that can be made into carbon frames but always look so dainty.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

outlanderx7 said:


> Hey there. This is my first real post. I've been following this thread for several months now. Thanks for all of the information as it has really helped with my build. I ended up with the CS-197 from XM Carbon Speed. Peter was great to work with and always quick to respond. The frame arrived in less than a week. Everything went together without any issues, just a few things worth mentioning. The internally routed cable/hose ports are run point-to-point so no fishing around to get things sorted out. The lower headset went in with a light press fit, the upper was more of a slip fit but there is no play. I was able to run a 170mm width crankset with the 190 rear for a lower Q-factor. My build list with actual weights is below along with some pics. Thanks again to everyone for all of the information, much appreciated. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to know about it.
> View attachment 1109879
> 
> View attachment 1109880
> ...


how well made is the carbon frame? has it cracked yet?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Picard said:


> how well made is the carbon frame? has it cracked yet?


You know that there is a Chinese Carbon 29er frame thread, and the vast majority of those bikes are still fine, right?

And that the same people/companies make those frames.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

CS-197 and 80mm carbon wheelset from XM Carbon Speed on the way. Will post build when I'm done. Will probably have questions....


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jjcarr said:


> CS-197 and 80mm carbon wheelset from XM Carbon Speed on the way. Will post build when I'm done. Will probably have questions....


How much did you pay? Did Peter cut you a deal on wheels + frame?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

Yeah, they did an end of year deal. Total with shipping for frame and wheelset was $1200


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## Babs1972 (Jan 3, 2017)

*Same problem*



bikeguy0 said:


> Jonny_T, Can you please post a picture of your drop outs? Did you use spacers in addition to the hub end caps?
> We just received 4 sets of FM190's and Dengfu 80mm wheels and all our cassettes lock rings are binding on our dropouts. We have the drop outs with the lip in them, see below. Please help. We are trying to race Fat Bike Nationals next weekend. I am looking at buying some washers or something locally to get this working while Wendy figures it out.
> 
> Here are the measurements of our frames.
> ...


Did new dropouts fix this issue? I have the same problem. If so, where did you get the new dropouts?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Had that issue with mine and ended shaving the drop out down so it wouldn't cause a bind.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Babs1972 said:


> Did new dropouts fix this issue? I have the same problem. If so, where did you get the new dropouts?


fm190 has 197 rear spacing. at least mine is, i doubt they changed the design. if your hub is 190mm you need 3.5mm spacers both sides. my hubs came with spacrs, you need to ask whoever provided your hubs or just find out if you can buy locally or have them machined.


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## Babs1972 (Jan 3, 2017)

I have the opposite problem. The spacing on my frame is 190 mm (dropout to dropout) and the dropouts are 12 mm thru axle dropouts. My hub is set up for 197 mm dropout to dropout. I know others have had this issue, I just haven't seen what their fix was. There was also some mention of the wrong dropouts being attached. Any more help?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Have you guys gone back to the vendor you got the frame from and asked them? I have the dengfu fm190 and you could get either a 190 or 197 rear spacing. I assume it is just a different drop out since making a different mold would be crazy expensive for such a simple change.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

It's all in the dropouts. They are replaceable. I was very specific when I order my FM190 that I wanted a 12x197mm spaced frame. And the corresponding axle with it.



Jefflinde said:


> Have you guys gone back to the vendor you got the frame from and asked them? I have the dengfu fm190 and you could get either a 190 or 197 rear spacing. I assume it is just a different drop out since making a different mold would be crazy expensive for such a simple change.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Babs1972 said:


> Did new dropouts fix this issue? I have the same problem. If so, where did you get the new dropouts?


that is weird, i have same frame and same dropouts yet they are spaced at 197mm. I am thinking you might need spacers and try to spread the stays to fit them.

these are the hubs i have
rear is listed as 197mm but it really is 190. it came with 2 spacers that make it 197 though.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

foresterLV said:


> Chen from icanbikes mentioned that they have some kind of promotion on 90mm carbon wheels (~600 usd with shipping?) until end of this year.
> They do such things from time to time I guess.
> 
> Received my SN02 frame yesterday, will have some happy building next weeks.
> ...


^^Fezzari Kings Peak Carbon.

My friend just bought one.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

*Cable hole plug removal*

My CS-197 didn't come with lines pre run. How do you get the plugs out to fish the cables through the frame?


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## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

On my CS-197 the plugs have a tab on one side, you push it inward toward the center of the plug and you can them pull the plug out. Run your cables from back to front, it's easier that way.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

jjcarr said:


> On my CS-197 the plugs have a tab on one side, you push it inward toward the center of the plug and you can them pull the plug out. Run your cables from back to front, it's easier that way.


Thanks, JJ. I have the same plugs I believe, but when I tried pushing the tab it didn't seem to make a difference. I was concerned that I may break it. I was using a small flat head screwdriver to push the tab and also trying to pry out the plug with a fingernail from my other hand. The tab moved, the plug not so much...

Meanwhile I saw your post about the brake disc adapter. I think I have the 160 adapter on my frame (rough measurement), but I had a spare Avid mechanical caliper and when I checked I also saw that the moving part will interfere. Thankfully I plan to use hydraulic brakes.

Fred


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

Yes, going back to front is easier because with removed fork you can access exits and help cable to fit. Or put there wire and then pull cable with wire (that what I was doing for dropper seat).

Was able to pull hydraulic dropper cable (reverb) via SN02 front derailer lines. The tricky part was that diameter of the exits matches exactly diameter of the dropper cable, so you need to strip cable a bit at front to be able to pull it through. It seems that frame is compatible with stealth droppers too, you can reroute cable via seat tube if needed, nice to know but my dropper is non-stealth. 

Otherwise my chinese build is waiting for thru axles from China. I was somehow assumming that I could use standard axles (like rockshox etc), wrong! Frame do not have axle threads builtin, strange that they dont ship these things together. So its another shipment, waiting for that proprietary axle nuts. Order them together to avoid waits. :>

Sent from my SM-G900F


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

OK, thats a surprise for me, but on SN02 rear axle nut seems to be pretty standard: just got my alu fat bike (after frame replacement) and its rear axle nut fits 1to1, held in place via hex bolt. Front one is not that clear, either it is glued in or have external thread. So technically axle nuts are not proprietary on SN02...
Here how its "parking lot" looks like:









Sent from my SM-G900F


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

foresterLV said:


> OK, thats a surprise for me, but on SN02 rear axle nut seems to be pretty standard: just got my alu fat bike (after frame replacement) and its rear axle nut fits 1to1, held in place via hex bolt. Front one is not that clear, either it is glued in or have external thread. So technically axle nuts are not proprietary on SN02...
> Here how its "parking lot" looks like:
> 
> 
> ...


A friend of mine just bought a Fezzari Kings Peak Carbon which is the same bike. The front axle was a 4 piece system. A bolt, a nut and 2 spacers. I thought it was odd that the bolt didn't just thread into the fork.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

prj71 said:


> A friend of mine just bought a Fezzari Kings Peak Carbon which is the same bike. The front axle was a 4 piece system. A bolt, a nut and 2 spacers. I thought it was odd that the bolt didn't just thread into the fork.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I guess I will just glue that nut/spacers in the fork, when it ships here. 
Black ms-polymer based glue/resin sealant should work just fine.

As for frame it seems to be "open mold" thing, i.e. multiple brands ordering same frame design for chinese factories to build. Good thing that we can now get these "directly" (or close to direct) from factory unbranded, for DIY cost-effecient builds.

Sent from my SM-G900F


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

foresterLV said:


> OK, thats a surprise for me, but on SN02 rear axle nut seems to be pretty standard: just got my alu fat bike (after frame replacement) and its rear axle nut fits 1to1, held in place via hex bolt. Front one is not that clear, either it is glued in or have external thread. So technically axle nuts are not proprietary on SN02...
> Here how its "parking lot" looks like:
> 
> 
> ...


It's a standard Shimano or DT Swiss E-Thru type axle.

Use the tiny grub screw on the drive side drop out to set the nut in place.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

So do any of the chinese carbon fat bike frames have the threads for the thru axle built into the frame/fork?


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

prj71 said:


> So do any of the chinese carbon fat bike frames have the threads for the thru axle built into the frame/fork?


I dont think its actually best for full-carbon fork to have a built-in thread, it would mean they need to glue in aluminium threaded nut permanently there when creating a fork. Why not to have separate nut and then glue it (non-permanent) in? The second solution is kinda more flexible as you can a) support thru-axle and QR with one fork design/mold b) if the thread is damaged it can be replaced.
From what I see even my alu bike 150x15mm fork seems to have separate threaded nut for axle and it kooks like glued in. Rockshox bluto seems to have thread created directly on the fork legs.

For rear axle I guess shimano compatible dropout is best to go, but then glued nut should not be a disaster either.
The reason for nut axles to be attached to frame either with glue or mini hex bolt is to prevent it rotation when tightening axle and not to loose it during transportation IMO, there is no other magic there.

Sent from my SM-G900F


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

Actually Bluto axle nut is not a part of fork legs either, it seems to be pressed in, just checked that. So it seems to be normal process in the industry not to make it permanently attached or structural part of frame/fork.

Sent from my SM-G900F


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## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

*Cs-197*

Got my CS-197 frameset and 85mm wheelset. Looking forward to building it up.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

cmg71 said:


> It can (on the flipside) also trap water in and allow more time to penetrate the bearings.
> Each to their own, but l prefer no inner sleeve, and regardless, BBs arent that expensive.


I have had water and gunk make it's way to the BB before, not much, but a little, but in my experience with the sealed sleeve, it goes AROUND the BB to the bottom-door (in my current carbon frame), then you just open and let out. It's rare for there to be water or gun there, but without the sleeve, it would have contaminated more moving parts IMO.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Looking at getting a CS-197 from XMcarbonspeed. I've purchased from Peter before with great results.
> 
> Anyone have one of these yet? It has a flip chip on each dropout to change the CS length. I probably wouldn't be running it 27.5 fat any time soon, but nice to have that capability.
> 
> ...


I has one coming now. 
Large frame
Stock HS
CB Cobalt SL 780 bar
Loaded Precision 45mm stem (blue)
No-name carbon seatpost
Sella San Marco Aspide
Next SL G4 190 with RF BSA30 BB w/blue protectors
XT Pedals
Ultegra 10spd chain
X9 T2 Rear D
XT 11-36 cassette
Foam grips (blue)
XTR M9000 brakes

Two wheelsets (bottom one for racing):

-LB90 (blue) with Hope Fatsno 197 (blue) revolution spokes blue alloy nipples, AiRotor 180/160, tires D5s
-LB65 (blue) with DT Swiss 350 197 (black) revolution spokes blue alloy nipples, Ai2 Rotor 180/160, tires D4s

I have most of this already, the new stuff is brakes (warranty replacement actually, shimano is great!), cranks and BB, chain, rear hubs and spokes/nipples.


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

Finished build today and took a quick ride (until dark): frankly I was not expecting much (i.e. few kgs lighter), but it rolls really better then my alu bike... Too much changes to understand why though, I guess carbon frame and fork adds soft/comfort feel, new tires probably too. I put 777mm handlebar and shorter 45mm stem - another improvement. 
Here is few quick phone shots:





























Weight is 13-13.1kg, I think its OK for 100mm rims/Beist tires/dropper/meaty handlebar and stem. Will do Bluto mod for summer - just need to get tall crown race.

As of components:
ICAN SN02 19 inch frame with fork
RaceFace Turbine cranks (for 197 frames, but 177 version will fit easily on this frame), Chester platforms
Sram GX 10-42 casette, GX derailler, XX1 grip shifts
AbsoluteBlack Oval 26T chainring
Magura MT5 brakes
FSA CSI 777mm flat handlebar, Sixpack Menace 45mm stem
Reverb dropper
Carbonspeedcycle 100mm carbon wheels
45NRTH Flowbeist/Dunderbeist tires 4.6

Sent from my SM-G900F


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

Updated few Strava personal records today. This thing is ready for Bluto :> - basically same weight as alloy bike but with dropper and front suspension. That would be next change.















Sent from my SM-G900F


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## traditiionalist (May 26, 2014)

Who currently offers a frame with aggressive trail geometry and a 100mm bb? I would like to use my current 120mm bluto also. Would my current cranks that fit a 170 rear fit a SN02 frame from ican?


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

traditiionalist said:


> Who currently offers a frame with aggressive trail geometry and a 100mm bb? I would like to use my current 120mm bluto also. Would my current cranks that fit a 170 rear fit a SN02 frame from ican?


SN02 fits cranks for 177 rear, I am using RaceFace Turbine for 197 rear (222mm qfactor) and there is plenty of space between crankarms and frame, like 1.5-2cm. I have seen other people putting 177 crank there too.
On SN02 you will need to have 5mm or taller spacer/tall crown race to avoid fork hitting downtube on rotation, but otherwise I was able to put 100mm bluto on that thing, going to test soon. I am not expert on geometry or riding though to give educated info.

Probably CS-197 is the most modern "open mold" frame right now: have 2 settings dropout and slacker fork angle. I guess it is in beta testing right now and therefore not available on ebay yet?

As for me I liked SN02 style, dunno about geometry specifics.

Sent from my SM-G900F


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## traditiionalist (May 26, 2014)

Where could I find the spacer or taller crown race?


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

Bluto activated.


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

traditiionalist said:


> Where could I find the spacer or taller crown race?


Found on ebay from Korea, but its seems to be out of stock now. 
New 10mm up Crown Race for 1.5" fork
Here how it looks on the bike:







10mm might be "too much on the safe side", and 5-6mm could work too (especially if Bluto is not xloc remote one - they are lower from what I heard). It is 19 frame though, can differ on other frame sizes.

Another potential source of crown race - MTB Tools Custom Extended Crown Race for Fat Bike Suspension Fork Clearance, bookmarked it but not tried to get it.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

traditiionalist said:


> Who currently offers a frame with aggressive trail geometry and a 100mm bb? I would like to use my current 120mm bluto also. Would my current cranks that fit a 170 rear fit a SN02 frame from ican?


As mentioned, the cs 197 is decent in the geo department. I'm running mine with a 120 Bluto and dropper. It makes a fine trail bike, and fitment is close enough to the AM hardtails I'm used to. A bit longer in the rear, but TBH, I've not yet bothered to chip it forward. The front end comes up fine at 465mm. Head tube is fairly long and stand over a touch tight.

I jump it and drop it every day, but haven't managed to break it. It is plastic, though, so only a matter of time. 

Those sn02 frames are dead sexy, though. A bit envious.


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## traditiionalist (May 26, 2014)

AllMountin' said:


> As mentioned, the cs 197 is decent in the geo department. I'm running mine with a 120 Bluto and dropper. It makes a fine trail bike, and fitment is close enough to the AM hardtails I'm used to. A bit longer in the rear, but TBH, I've not yet bothered to chip it forward. The front end comes up fine at 465mm. Head tube is fairly long and stand over a touch tight.
> 
> I jump it and drop it every day, but haven't managed to break it. It is plastic, though, so only a matter of time.
> 
> Those sn02 frames are dead sexy, though. A bit envious.


I like the look of the SN02, but I like the bluto clearance and geometry of the carbonspeed. The SN02 has the same geo as my current fatty though.Does the carbonspeed come with a thru axle? I'd be ordering a frame and wheels this spring, and I'm trying to do as much research as I can on the different frames.


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## traditiionalist (May 26, 2014)

What spaced cranks do you have? Will a crankset that is spaced for a 170 rear fit on the cs197?


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

traditiionalist said:


> What spaced cranks do you have? Will a crankset that is spaced for a 170 rear fit on the cs197?


Yes and no. Race Face Aeffect cranks don't clear enough with a 170 spindle. I read that here weeks ago, just a few pages back. Race Face Turbine has plenty of room with a 170 spindle and that's what I have on mine.

Fred


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## traditiionalist (May 26, 2014)

RagerXS said:


> Yes and no. Race Face Aeffect cranks don't clear enough with a 170 spindle. I read that here weeks ago, just a few pages back. Race Face Turbine has plenty of room with a 170 spindle and that's what I have on mine.
> 
> Fred


Could you measure from the chainstay to the other side? I'm trying to figure out if my current cranks will work.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

foresterLV said:


> Found on ebay from Korea, but its seems to be out of stock now.
> New 10mm up Crown Race for 1.5" fork
> Here how it looks on the bike:
> View attachment 1117620
> ...


I have the MTB Tools installed on my bike for the past year and has been perfect.
Worked Chris from MTB designing it and was the tester.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

traditiionalist said:


> Could you measure from the chainstay to the other side? I'm trying to figure out if my current cranks will work.


 can't measure the cranks like that, but someone else tried Aeffect cranks and said he had only 1-2mm clearance and would bump under load. I have 5-6mm of clearance on each side with the Turbine Cinch, plus it's supposed to be stiffer.

With the Cinch system the Q-factor is set by the spindle length and not adjustable. Spacers are used to set the BB cup spacing and/or to shift the cranks left or right. Once within ~1mm, the threaded pre-load nut is used to take out the slop and pre-load the BB bearings.

Fred


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

jjcarr said:


> Got my CS-197 frameset and 85mm wheelset. Looking forward to building it up.
> View attachment 1116436
> 
> 
> View attachment 1116435


Looking nice!


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## traditiionalist (May 26, 2014)

Thanks fred, I think I might just bite the bullet and get the carbon speed full suspension fatty frame. I do a lot of jumps and drops, and this frame would suit my needs pretty good. Once I have the money together, I'll purchase it. Do the carbon speed bikes come with thru axles?


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Mine came with the axles, but confirm when purchasing.


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## Cevan (Jan 14, 2004)

Here is my build thread. Goal was a relatively light weight fat bike I could ride anytime of the year here in New England, so here goes:

After some research I settled on the Carbonspeed 197. I had emailed with Peter about frames and wheelsets and found him to be quite responsive. So I ordered the frame, 029 fork, axles, headset and a 68mm carbon wheelset. Everything arrived about 10 days after ordering. I have to say I was very impressed with how well everything was packed. Wheels came in their own box. It took me a good 15 minutes just to removed the bubble wrap from the frame. Everything looked great. No blemishes. Everything looks finished to a high degree.

My parts list:

Jumbo Jim 4.0 tires tubeless
RaceFace Next SL crank/BB with a 28T
RF Next bars
FSA SL-K stem
FSA SL-K post
XTR brakes/Ice tech rotors
SRAM XX1 shifter/cassette/chain/derailleur
Selle Italia SLR saddle
Time Atac xc-4 pedals

Routing the shifter housing was a slight pain. Definitely easiest back to front. Those chainstays are narrow! Brake line much easier. Awaiting a stem before cutting the steerer tube. Wt. 23.4lbs.

Few pics.


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## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

cevans like idparts?

Fat bike related, I am about to order a cs-197 frame. I have a RM Blizzard but my heart's been on a carbon frame for a while.

I saw somebody mention a 180 rotor on the back. Is it possible to just fun a 160?


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

xbiker423 said:


> cevans like idparts?
> 
> Fat bike related, I am about to order a cs-197 frame. I have a RM Blizzard but my heart's been on a carbon frame for a while.
> 
> I saw somebody mention a 180 rotor on the back. Is it possible to just fun a 160?


I thought that poster followed up that his mount adapter was reversed? Regardless, I test fit mine and it's aligned for a 160mm rotor.

Fred


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## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

Ah, I had missed that. Additionally, thanks for taking the effort to check yours.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I have a FM190 and i am looking for a quick release seat post clamp. Does anyone have one they recommend and know will fit. I just want a black one and not sure expensive if possible. 

thank you for your help.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Starting a new build with the new DengFu FM191 frame. the frame has not arrived but i did get the new 65mm carbon wheels. finish is awesome and the weight is pretty good. the spokes are straight gauge so there is some weight to be lost there. I put all the bits and pieces on them and mounted the JJ 4.0 LS tires. the 4.0 looks to give good rim protection and and a nice rounded profile. should be super fast this summer.


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## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

My CS 197 frame came on Friday so I've been building it up this weekend. I have the Next SL G4 crankset with 170mm arms and 170mm spindle spacing. I have millimeters of clearance for the arms (maybe 3mm) and much less once I put the little crank boots on. It certainly isn't as much as what people are posting with the Turbine Cinch @ 170mm spacing. Should I ride it and see how it goes, or just spring for the 190mm spindle? I'm a light rider, maybe 130# fully kitted. 

BB setup: one spacer on NDS, 2 on Drive side
Crank: 1 spacer NDS, 1 spacer DS

Thank you


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

xbiker423 said:


> My CS 197 frame came on Friday so I've been building it up this weekend. I have the Next SL G4 crankset with 170mm arms and 170mm spindle spacing. I have millimeters of clearance for the arms (maybe 3mm) and much less once I put the little crank boots on. It certainly isn't as much as what people are posting with the Turbine Cinch @ 170mm spacing. Should I ride it and see how it goes, or just spring for the 190mm spindle? I'm a light rider, maybe 130# fully kitted.
> 
> BB setup: one spacer on NDS, 2 on Drive side
> Crank: 1 spacer NDS, 1 spacer DS
> ...


When did you order yours? I ordered mine in January and still hasn't arrive?


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

You should ride it and let us know if there's any flex.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

The Turbine's have a +20mm wider Q factor. So I'd assume the inside clearance has got to be close to +20mm as well.

The 190mm next SL may not be that much wider than a 170mm Turbine.



xbiker423 said:


> My CS 197 frame came on Friday so I've been building it up this weekend. I have the Next SL G4 crankset with 170mm arms and 170mm spindle spacing. I have millimeters of clearance for the arms (maybe 3mm) and much less once I put the little crank boots on. It certainly isn't as much as what people are posting with the Turbine Cinch @ 170mm spacing. Should I ride it and see how it goes, or just spring for the 190mm spindle? I'm a light rider, maybe 130# fully kitted.
> 
> BB setup: one spacer on NDS, 2 on Drive side
> Crank: 1 spacer NDS, 1 spacer DS
> ...


----------



## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

Nash04 said:


> When did you order yours? I ordered mine in January and still hasn't arrive?


Weird. I ordered it I think the first week of Feb. If I were you, I'd get in touch with the seller. Good luck with it!


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## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

kidd said:


> You should ride it and let us know if there's any flex.


I think I may end up doing that, but since I'm placing a parts order I'm going to throw a 190 spindle on the list just in case. I wish there was a 180 version offered.



neons97 said:


> The Turbine's have a +20mm wider Q factor. So I'd assume the inside clearance has got to be close to +20mm as well.
> 
> The 190mm next SL may not be that much wider than a 170mm Turbine.


I was really stoked to have a smaller Q factor and ridiculously light cranks, but it doesn't seem that I'll be able to have my cake and eat it, too. The Turbine q factor in 170 spindle length is smaller than the Next in 190 (which makes sense). I guess I will just have to deal with the larger Q of the SL @ 190mm. I'm really hoping that it doesn't flex and I can keep it at 170. Unfortunately, I ordered the wrong headset for the frame so I'm waiting on that to come in before I can finish the build.

Thanks for the input, y'all.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

xbiker423 said:


> Weird. I ordered it I think the first week of Feb. If I were you, I'd get in touch with the seller. Good luck with it!


Wow! that was quick, I ordered mine thru Peter, it's on the way but didn't leave there till the 16th after I bug him a couple of times since he told me that it was going to be ship on the 7th.


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## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

Nash04 said:


> Wow! that was quick, I ordered mine thru Peter, it's on the way but didn't leave there till the 16th after I bug him a couple of times since he told me that it was going to be ship on the 7th.


I thought so, too. It only took five days to get here, too (I'm in VT). Overall I was satisfied with the process. Peter seemed pretty good to deal with. I went with EMS shipping, and they end up being delivered via USPS.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

FWIW, My Yampa chainstay clearance is 4.5 mm drive side and 5.5 mm non drive side with boots and 170 spindle on Next SL. It never rubs.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

My Turbine arms with 170 spindle have ~3mm of clearance on my CS-197, with the plastic end caps on the cranks. I can't believe there is a 20mm difference in Q-factor from the Next SL cranks. That simply has to be a typo.

I will add that I can't detect any flex in the frame nor the cranks.

Fred


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## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

From the PDF I've found it's a 10mm difference


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

neons97 said:


> The Turbine's have a +20mm wider Q factor. So I'd assume the inside clearance has got to be close to +20mm as well.
> 
> The 190mm next SL may not be that much wider than a 170mm Turbine.


No.
The actual arms have 10mm difference, and RF have made it so they don't share the same q

Next sl: 169,5mm spindle = 203mm q
Turbines: 169,5mm spindle = 213mm q
Next sl: 189,5mm spindle = 223mm q
Turbines: 189,5mm spindle = 233mm q


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

I don't think I could run Next SL cranks on my CS-197 without the longer spindle. I'm certain that I couldn't lose 5mm on each side. Luckily for me I prefer the Turbines. 

Fred


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## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

I just got the bike finished tonight and I went for a quick spin. There definitely isn't enough clearance for 170mm spaced Next SL crank on the CS 197 frameset. So I'm going to have to swap it out for the 190mm spindle. Bummer. At least it's light.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

xbiker423 said:


> I just got the bike finished tonight and I went for a quick spin. There definitely isn't enough clearance for 170mm spaced Next SL crank on the CS 197 frameset. So I'm going to have to swap it out for the 190mm spindle. Bummer. At least it's light.


That sucks, indications seemed to be that 170s would fit if you were going to run a 1x setup. I went with the 190 just in case, but afterwards was starting to regret it, as I thought I could have gotten away with a 170. Will be installing tonight.


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## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

Maybe without the crank boots it would work. And you might be able to stick a really thin shim to help space things out? If they had the same Q as the turbines, it would work. Or a 180mm spindle.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Anyways, got the CS-197 built up tonight. Went together pretty well. Pics tomorrow. Front triangle is bigger, so I need a bigger revelate bag, even though I had a size "L". Relatively easy to run internal cables when you're starting with a bare frame, no need to drop the fork, take the cranks out, etc.

22.69lbs in race config with 65mm rims and dillinger 4s.

I just rebuilt my 90mm LB rim this morning with a 197 hub for my D5s, those will go back on as soon as my tubeless tape is set.

Size large frame was 1396g on my postal scale.

Set up like in picture:
135mm Lamere carbon fork (see no reason to go 150 at this time)
XTR M9000 rear derailleur
XTR M9000 brakes
XT M8000 shifter pod
XT pedals
Next SL cranks (190mm) 32t
RF 30mm BSA BB
CB cobalt 780mm carbon bar
No-name carbon seatpost
Selle san marco aspide saddle

Wheels:
F LB 65mm rim, sapim laser spokes, alloy nipples, hope fatsno pro 4
R LB 65mm rim, sapim laser spokes, alloy nipples, DT 350 with 1up mini-driver
Hope 10-40 cassette
Ashima Ai2 rotors
Dillinger 4 tires

alternate

F LB 90mm rim, sapim laser spokes, alloy nipples, hope fassno pro 2
R LB 90mm rim, sapim laser spokes, alloy nipples, hope fatsno pro 4
w/XTR 11-40 cassette
Ashima AirRotors
Dillinger 5 tires


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Sweet


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Sweet, did yours came with pre-routed cables which makes it easier to route your cables? Also did you need to drill out the guides so the cables could fit, had to on mine. The guide's diameter were too small to let the cable housing slide through. I also needed to cleaned the rear brake attaching point threads.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nash04 said:


> Sweet, did yours came with pre-routed cables which makes it easier to route your cables? Also did you need to drill out the guides so the cables could fit, had to on mine. The guide's diameter were too small to let the cable housing slide through. I also needed to cleaned the rear brake attaching point threads.


No pre-routed cables, but since it was a bare frame, was pretty dang easy to get routed with no headset or BB. Routed derailleur and brakes from rear to front. You can fit your fingers pretty easily in the headtube to guide the cables through to the openings (remove the guides of course). Cables fit through just fine. No issues with rear brake attach threads. Switched it to shorter wheelbase of course, I'd only use the long to fit 2XLs.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Got a good 5hr ride in this afternoon. Was very warm today around Anchorage, upper 20s (the reason the snow is sticking). From my house and way up into the hills. Bike rode great. Shoes rub a bit on the cranks.


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## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

I also took my CS 197 out for it inaugural ride yesterday. Parts list:

S frame
CC 110 heaset 42 upper, 55 lower
Bluto
SLXM7000 brakeset
XTm8000 11 speed shifter and Der (GS cage)
Sunrace MX8 11-42 cassette
Next SL G4 crank, 170 arms, 190 spindle
AB 28T oval direct mount
Bars from XM Carbon Speed
No name alloy post
WTB saddle
Wheelset is stock Mulefut/Formula from 2015 Rocky Mountain Blizzard, which is what I had ridden prior to building this.
Tires are flow/dunder

I'm 5'4 and about 130 ready to ride. I tend to keep my tires on terra firma and consider myself a tame rider. I don't think I'm fast, but there are certainly always people behind me on group rides so I can't be slow, either. Or at least the slowest (depending on who I ride with).

My impressions about the frame (my first carbon):

I am bummed the rear axle on the NDS sits right against the carbon. I'd think that there should at least be a thin plate in there to protect the frame.

The rear axle configuration is kind of clunky with the loose axle nut.

On mine, the upper left cable guide by the headtube was sized to act as a cable stop, and only allow a bare cable to go through. I had decided to run my rear Der. cable through that, so I had to open that up to allow the housing through as well. Honestly, I think fully housed internally run cable are silly and that full housing external cables are my preference. There weren't any bladders pre-run like the site's pictures suggest.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the frame. I wish I had ordered some small parts with it when I bought it: spare der. hanger, spare axle nut, spare rear axle plate, so if I ever order a frame again I'll try to remember to do that. 

Ride assessment:

Fun! The conditions weren't great yesterday and there was a significant amount of ice which didn't let me really enjoy the ride to its fullest potential, but I still had a blast. It's way lighter than the Blizzard -50 I had ridden previously. I can't imagine what it will be like with a lighter wheelset. Everything worked great. The shifting feel is a little chunky, but I think it will wear in a bit and I really like the double shifting ability. The cassette/chain interface is a little chunky at times, too, but there were plenty of shifts where I didn't think it had actually shifted because the action was so smooth. I'm guessing as everything breaks in it will be better. 

The bars are plenty stiff, as is the frame. I feel like this bike just wants to go. It feels very reactive and I'm looking forward to riding it either in good snow conditions (seems unlikely at this point) or on dry trails (since winter can't seem to make up its mind here, I'd rather it just be spring).

My other-other bike is a 2012 Anthem 29er set up 1x10 with SRAM gripshifts and a Wolftooth 42T extender cog. Just so you know where I'm coming from.

Thanks to everyone on here for their help and information they've posted about their experiences. This thread is a great resource.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

xbiker423 said:


> On mine, the upper left cable guide by the headtube was sized to act as a cable stop, and only allow a bare cable to go through. I had decided to run my rear Der. cable through that, so I had to open that up to allow the housing through as well. Honestly, I think fully housed internally run cable are silly and that full housing external cables are my preference. There weren't any bladders pre-run like the site's pictures suggest.
> 
> Ride assessment:
> The shifting feel is a little chunky, but I think it will wear in a bit and I really like the double shifting ability. The cassette/chain interface is a little chunky at times, too, but there were plenty of shifts where I didn't think it had actually shifted because the action was so smooth. I'm guessing as everything breaks in it will be better.


I didn't even try the upper lever guide since I'm not running a front derailleur and the rear D and brake both route through the downtube. If anyone gets this though, I strongly suggest running the cables on the bare frame before you do anything else, that's the easiest way to do it, rather than install BB, cranks, headset, fork, etc.

I will say I'm not blown away by the XT/XTR drivetrain I have as far as shifting performance. I was hoping for similar to my X1/X01 on my pivot, but it's "clunky" and generally doesn't feel as positive or quality. It's not horrible of course, but I was expecting better and SRAMs function for removing the rear wheel is far better. The XTR derailleur and cinch chainring did keep my chain on yesterday, something I've never had a problem with on my SRAM setups, but it's a good test of the chainline and clutch function, so that works.


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## Cevan (Jan 14, 2004)

I've got a bunch of rides on mine and love it. 23.1 lbs with cages and pedals. I had to use a 190mm spindle on mine Next SL cranks.


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## KAS811 (Sep 30, 2016)

I just received my CS197 frame, 120mm Bluto on the way. I am looking at FSA and Cane Creek headsets but not sure which size or which one I need to go with. This is my first bike build,and having a hard time locating this info, any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## outlanderx7 (Feb 18, 2016)

KAS811 said:


> I just received my CS197 frame, 120mm Bluto on the way. I am looking at FSA and Cane Creek headsets but not sure which size or which one I need to go with. This is my first bike build,and having a hard time locating this info, any help would be greatly appreciated!


The Cane Creek headset I installed on mine is IS42/28.6 IS52/40. It fit up nicely. Cost around $50.


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## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

Make sure you get an integrated style (that's what the IS stands for).


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## KAS811 (Sep 30, 2016)

Thanks guys for the help, ordered the Cane Creek mentioned by Outlander above.


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## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

*Cs197*

Getting mine built up. XT/XTR 1x11, Bluto. Frame and wheels from carbon speed. 1.5" Thudbuster (cuz I'm old). Almost ready for the trail.


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## tristero (May 11, 2010)

*What Crank size did you use (170 or 190) from RF?*

What Crank size did you use (170 or 190) from RF?
Flipped Chainring? 
Or did you find that the SRAM fatbike crank fits?


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## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

190mm Race Face Aeffect. Got a King 24mm bb and have 2 spacers on each side of the bb. The crank came with 10mm spacers that are also used, on on each side. I'm going to dial the chainline a little (waiting for the crank puller for this crank) where I use 3 spacers on non-drive side, and 1 on drive side.


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## tristero (May 11, 2010)

My frame arrived from Dengfu fm191, in 7 days! Will build up ASAP and report back.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Nice looking bike, Jayem, et al. I'm loving my CS-197. I still need to cut the steerer and build up my carbon wheels but the spec fatboy wheels I'm rolling have Hope hubs and work just fine for now. Unfortunatly all our snow is gone in southern NH so my sweetheart may stay inside until next winter unless we get more.

Fred


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## xbiker423 (Jan 14, 2017)

Where in SNH are you? I'm up in Hanover, by Dartmouth. All the trails here are either dirt or ice.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

xbiker423 said:


> Where in SNH are you? I'm up in Hanover, by Dartmouth. All the trails here are either dirt or ice.


West of Nashua. We had some ice but most or all of that is gone now, depending on location and sun coverage.


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## Code Runner (May 27, 2009)

Just dropping in to share my experience. After a quick bit of research, I decided to pick up a CS-197 frame and fork. I emailed Peter on January 31'st, got a quote 24 hours later and ordered the frame shortly thereafter. It shipped on February 7th and arrived at my post office on February 14th.

The box was sturdy...



















And it was well packaged.



















The frame itself was finished well as was the fork.










The cable ports were of a better quality than I've seen on many mainstream manufactures frames.










The axles and dropout "chips" were of an acceptable quality, but not something I would brag about.










I built it up with a Bud and Lou on 80mm carbon hoops laced to Hope Pro 4 hubs. 
Sram NX cassette
X-1 Chain
GX rear derailleur
X1 Shifter
Turbine Cinch crankset (190) with 30t chainring
Crank Brothers Candy pedals
Guide RS Brakes 
180mm front rotor
160mm rear rotor
Atlas handlebars @780mm
Oury grips
Race Face Aeffect stem
Cane Creek 40 series headset
eTen Dropper
Chromag Lynx saddle










I'm in the upper 20's for weight.

I have about 60-100 miles on it and I'm pretty impressed so far. I have the dropouts in the rear/long position. I'm enjoying the added stability of the longer wheelbase, but I may move them forward for some added agility. We're expecting temperatures in the low 60's for the foreseeable future, so I may not get out on it again this season. Let me know if you have any questions.


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## Pack66 (Jul 7, 2015)

@Coderunner Beautiful bike and nice build! I'm jealous of the bike and the Jeep!

Has anyone purchased bars/stem/seatpost from XMCarbonspeed? I'm curious as to what he's charging. I just bought a Sarma Shaman frame and will be building it over the next few months.


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## allenc (Dec 14, 2015)

Pack66 said:


> @Coderunner Beautiful bike and nice build! I'm jealous of the bike and the Jeep!
> 
> Has anyone purchased bars/stem/seatpost from XMCarbonspeed? I'm curious as to what he's charging. I just bought a Sarma Shaman frame and will be building it over the next few months.


Hi Pack66, you may contact Peter and ask for quotation directly, it seems the prices on their carbonspeedbikes.com website have already included PayPal fee. I bought my frameset and components more than 1 year ago, I emailed him and sent payment to their PayPal account directly.


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## tristero (May 11, 2010)

*Headset for FM 191*

Guys, just got my Dengfu 191 in the post.
It looks amazing. 
It's my first carbon bike.
The headset I pulled out of my Motobecane Night Train (internal zero stack, 1.25 top, 1.5 bottom) do not seem to be working. The top bearing sits above the frame 1-2 mm.

What do I need!?!?! Please help.


----------



## tristero (May 11, 2010)

*Shift cable housing*

Nevermind on the headset. I got that sorted out. In my excitement to put the bike together I forgot that I ordered a headset with the frame!

HOWEVER,
Again this is my first carbon bike and for anyone who put this together do you run the cable housing all the way through the frame of the bike or just up near the headset and Outback near the rear derailleur? So like two pieces that are maybe 12 inches each maximum. Because I can't seem to run my 4 millimeter cable through there. Thank you!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

tristero said:


> Nevermind on the headset. I got that sorted out. In my excitement to put the bike together I forgot that I ordered a headset with the frame!
> 
> HOWEVER,
> Again this is my first carbon bike and for anyone who put this together do you run the cable housing all the way through the frame of the bike or just up near the headset and Outback near the rear derailleur? So like two pieces that are maybe 12 inches each maximum. Because I can't seem to run my 4 millimeter cable through there. Thank you!


Two 12" pieces? That sounds odd as heck. It's likely like all other carbon frames with internal cables, they run the housing AND the cable inside the frame. It's slightly tricky to run the cable housing through, but a lot easier with no bottom bracket and no headset. Run them from the rear up above the BB up through the downtube, then you'll be able to fish them through the ports fairly easily near the headtube. It also helps if you pop the little ports off, but you need to make sure you run the cable housing through the ports before and after putting the housing through the frame. At some point, you'll probably forget this and miss one of the ports and have to yank the cables out to put it back through. Part of the learning process.


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## tristero (May 11, 2010)

Just got my dengfu fm191. We're you able to run the shifting cable completely through the frame? Mine seems to stop the entire housing right up at the head tube and chainatays, so that I could only run from shifter to frame, and RD to frame...like 2 separate 12 inch pieces...?


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

On my SN02 I was putting just cable into frame housing for rear shifter, there was no way to put additional housing there as input/exit holes were few mm wide (like 1 or 2mm), and input/exit caps are part of the frame (non removable). I was using housing caps on each frame exit side (they fit nicely into input/exit caps of frame) and added external housing to run to shifter and derailer. Works great.
I guess it depends on frame design, some require housing inside some not (provide builtin one).


Sent from my SM-G900F


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I just finished building a my 3rd dengfu fat bike and it was a FM191. the housing stopped at the frame inlet and just the cable goes through the frame.  my first FM190 is about 2 years old now and i have no issues with the shifting from this setup. and it looks really clean too



tristero said:


> Just got my dengfu fm191. We're you able to run the shifting cable completely through the frame? Mine seems to stop the entire housing right up at the head tube and chainatays, so that I could only run from shifter to frame, and RD to frame...like 2 separate 12 inch pieces...?


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

12k carbon is still not available yet?!


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## plasmaguy (Mar 17, 2012)

Code Runner said:


> Just dropping in to share my experience. After a quick bit of research, I decided to pick up a CS-197 frame and fork. I emailed Peter on January 31'st, got a quote 24 hours later and ordered the frame shortly thereafter. It shipped on February 7th and arrived at my post office on February 14th.
> 
> The box was sturdy...
> 
> ...


Awesome photography !!!


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## Fat-Tire (Feb 10, 2016)

Anybody fit a Vee Snowshoe 2XL on the CS-197?


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

In doing a google search for the CS-197 it seems there are multiple vendors with the name CarbonSpeed. There is XMCarbonspeed that seems to be the Peter that people are generally happy doing business with and Carbon Speed Bikes | High quality carbon fiber bicycle frames and components that also sells the CS-197 or al least something with the same name. Carbonspeedbikes has a CS-197 on sale for $380 which is attractive but it may not be a vendor with positve feedback here on MTBR. The MTBR search engine finds the phrase Carbonspeedbikes too common to give results.

Any insight for me on these two sellers?


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## plasmaguy (Mar 17, 2012)

Mike,

That's a great question. Both sites have the same contact info. This begs the question as to why they have two web sites ???


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

plasmaguy said:


> Mike,
> 
> That's a great question. Both sites have the same contact info. This begs the question as to why they have two web sites ???


I guess I'll find out. Ordered from Carbon Speed Bikes | High quality carbon fiber bicycle frames and components


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

mike_kelly said:


> I guess I'll find out. Ordered from Carbon Speed Bikes | High quality carbon fiber bicycle frames and components


Yes it appears they are both owned by Peter. Order placed and very responsive.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Pretty amazing service for a custom paint job.


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## Fat-Tire (Feb 10, 2016)

mike_kelly said:


> Pretty amazing service for a custom paint job.


Hey Mike! 
How long did it take you to get your frame shipped from CarbonSpeed/Peter?


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

7 working days. That was with Peter going to the 2017 Taipei Cycle show last week.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

mike_kelly said:


> 7 working days. That was with Peter going to the 2017 Taipei Cycle show last week.


So frame arrived today. Perfect shape. Beautiful paint.


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## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

Pics?


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

jjcarr said:


> Pics?


PIc a couple of posts up is the actual frame and it came wrapped just the pics from code runner. A picture Peter sent before it was shipped. The color is a little lighter than the pic which is what my wife wanted.

The headset from Peter was/is pretty cheap and the bottom bearing fell apart on me. It is the same stock headset that came with my 9zero7. So may be just a bad bearing.

I am a little confused on the crown bearing. The crown on the fork is not flat, like for instance my AL fork on my 9zero7. there is a tapered carbon cone coming up to the point that the crown race sits. So the crown race does not sit on the top of the crown flat. I can't see it working any other way and maybe all carbon forks are designed this way but it seems strange.

JJCarr I see you have one maybe you can tell me where I am screwed up. Others in this thread are not looking like they fit like this one, or at least the way I am trying to do it.


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

The race should be tapered as well. 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

akgrimace said:


> The race should be tapered as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


So it does not look like the right crown race to you. Should be something much larger that has a tapered cone to fit over the carbon and then the surface the bearing fits into above?

Is this different than others CS-197 fork crown? Anyone know what the correct race is? I assume it is a IS42/52 but what would the crown race be called?


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

You probably don't need th crown race. Guessing you tried without one


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

I did but it still doesn't look "right". Other pictures in this thread show a pretty tight crown-to-heatube connection. Without a crown race the bearing fits but there is still an 1/8" gap or more.

.














I have a semi-integrated 52 that fits perfectly to the crown but, of course, does not fit the headtube side. I am wondering if this is just the wrong fork for this frame.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

It measures out to me to be an IS42/28.6 - IS52/40, It is a FK-019 so it goes with this frame and I am just unfamiliar with what looks to be a built-in crown race. Must need a spacer of some kind to sit under the bearing to take up the gap?

After hours of study I have come to conclusion that this fork has a built-in carbon crown race. It is designed to have the bearing sit right onto it. But I still don't see how it is supposed to fit properly which other users seem to have accomplished. If you have one of these please clue me in.

In looking at my pictures again I wonder if the lower bearing is a 36 low and 45 high bearing. The crown race appears to be 45deg to me and it might not fit down enough if the under bevel was 36 instead of 45. Not sure how to measure that tho.


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

mike_kelly said:


> So it does not look like the right crown race to you. Should be something much larger that has a tapered cone to fit over the carbon and then the surface the bearing fits into above?
> 
> Is this different than others CS-197 fork crown? Anyone know what the correct race is? I assume it is a IS42/52 but what would the crown race be called?


My SN01 was the same way. The inside of the race was tapered.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

akgrimace said:


> My SN01 was the same way. The inside of the race was tapered.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


SO you did not use a metal lower crown race and did the lower bearing fit over the molded in carbon crown race with out a noticable gap when you put it all together?

Thanks


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## LurkerJono (May 15, 2016)

Hi Mike,

I have cs-197 with a FK-019 and supplied headset from Peter. The lower bearing just sits on top on the fork. So there is no crown race as such.

From what I remember the assembly went top to bottom like this ->

1. Top cover
2. thin washer
3. conical split washer *
4. Top bearing race *
5. Head tube of frame
6. Bottom bearing race *
7. Fork

* Grease applied where needed

When I did have the FK-019 fork on the bike was no big gap and looked prefect.

If you can't get it together I would bet you have the wrong headset.



mike_kelly said:


> SO you did not use a metal lower crown race and did the lower bearing fit over the molded in carbon crown race with out a noticable gap when you put it all together?
> 
> Thanks


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

LurkerJono said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> I have cs-197 with a FK-019 and supplied headset from Peter. The lower bearing just sits on top on the fork. So there is no crown race as such.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for your response
My lower bearing fits flush in to the lower heatube so it is the right thickness and the top bevel matches the frame. As you can see from one of the pictures above if I put the bottom bearing onto the crown race, without using the metal crown race in the package sent, the bearing does not sit down onto the fork crown as I would expect. Hence if I put it into the frame that way the bearing goes up flush and there is the gap illustrated in the picture above. It is the right diameter bearing so the only thing left is that the inner bevel does not match the crown race. I bought the headset from Peter to avoid this kind of problem. I guess I will have to find a couple of 52mm bearings one advertising 45deg inner and one 36deg inner bevel and see if one fits better than the other since there are no labels on the bearings supplied. Do you happen to remember if the bearing sat down onto the main body of the fork as it settled onto the crown race or was it suspended above part way down the crown race like mine?

Cheers


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Isn't that just an integrated crown race? 



Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## LurkerJono (May 15, 2016)

The lower bearing sat on the main body of the fork. Have checked with Peter? He is very helpful.



mike_kelly said:


> TDo you happen to remember if the bearing sat down onto the main body of the fork as it settled onto the crown race or was it suspended above part way down the crown race like mine?
> Cheers


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

LurkerJono said:


> The lower bearing sat on the main body of the fork. Have checked with Peter? He is very helpful.


Great thanks for that note. I think now I need to search for the right bottom bearing. Peter doesn't know but he is going to have another user like you let me know their experience but there is no question this is the wrong lower bearing. Thanks again.

LeDuke - yes it is an integrated carbon crown race but the lower bearing does not fit.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

there are 2 different bearing contact angles 45x45 degree or 36x45 degree. the manufacture should be able to point you the correct headset


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

I figured it out. The problem with the bearing that Peter supplied was not that the bevel was wrong. It was the wrong thickness. I talked to Cane Creek (thanks Craig!!) and the Cane Creek bearing of the same general specs 45x45 52mm is not as "tall". It sits on the built-in carbon crown race to the same depth as the supplied bearing but the difference is that the Cane Creek goes up into the headtube further which closes the gap. The supplied bearing when up and was flush with the bottom of the headtube but the Cane Creek bearing went up into the headtube allowing the top of the fork the proper gap to the headtube.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

*CS-197 and Vee Rubber Snowshoe 2XL*

It did not look like there was an answer to this question so here is a half answer.

My 9zero7 won't fit a 2XL in the back but I use one in the front. So I took my front wheel and put the thru axle on it in the back of the CS-197. It looks like the 2XL would fit with ease.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

My wife did not like the black decals available from Peter so I had some made by www.diylettering.com with her choices. Also I tried a e.13 xcx fat bike crank double for 100mm BB and the arms are too straight and don't clear the stays.


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## Fat-Tire (Feb 10, 2016)

mike_kelly said:


> It did not look like there was an answer to this question so here is a half answer.
> 
> My 9zero7 won't fit a 2XL in the back but I use one in the front. So I took my front wheel and put the thru axle on it in the back of the CS-197. It looks like the 2XL would fit with ease.


Thanks Mike, Is that on 80mm rims or 100mm?


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

90mm Spesh Fatboys. I am building up pair of 100mm wheels for my new bike and I'll try them when I get them built.


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## ashwinearl (Jan 2, 2004)

Does anyone have the reach/stack dimensions for the small size CSN019. The geometry table doesn't list reach/stack and my email to Carbon speed bounced back.
CS-N019 26er full carbon fat bike frame frame 150*15mm/190*10mm QR/197*12mm axle - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

thanks


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

*Final report on CS-197*

Meets the approval of my better half.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Quite honestly not to my taste (its a shame the two greens dont match better  ), but well done, bet thats a heap of brownie points


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

"heap of brownie points:

EXACTLY!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Pretty cool!


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

I'm sure this is already answered in this thread somewhere, but I didn't want to look through 80 pages. I'm interested in getting an ICAN SNO3 frame, and I'm wondering about the rear spacing. It is listed as 12x190mm, but I'm assuming it is actually 12x197? Can anybody confirm this? Seems like an unusual size, and chinese carbon websites have errors all over the place usually. Thanks


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

My CS-010 is a 12 X 190mm so I'm pretty sure if ICAN is stating 12x190 then it is.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

ChargeCookerMaxi said:


> 'm wondering about the rear spacing. It is listed as 12x190mm, but I'm assuming it is actually 12x197? Can anybody confirm this? Seems like an unusual size, and chinese carbon websites have errors all over the place usually. Thanks


12 x 190 could be a QR rear

other bikes like the first gen Fatboy and Mayor were also 190QR rear.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

I sort of remember some of the early Chinese Carbon bikes had 12 by 190 through axles. There was a lot of confusion way back in the day.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

There are definitely 190mm thru axle chinese bikes. I think they screwed up the standard for a little while. Not a huge deal if you can find the appropriate hubs.


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## Kiddiboy (Nov 15, 2015)

Hello. Has anybody painted their carbon bike frames? Can I use auto primer, paint and clear after light wetsanding of all surfaces?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

How are the CS-197's holding up guys?

I'm considering building one up for next winter. 

My Carbonspeed 29+ wheels have held up great on my Farley. 

Seeing some of the builds here, i could drop 7 pounds in comparison. 

Is anyone running the 27.5 x 68 mm width rims with 27.5 x 4.5 tires?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

CS197 holding up great, many races in the snow last winter. Did a gravel grinder a month back and use it for commuting and riding to softball in the summer.


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## MidnightFattie (Jun 13, 2017)

Has anybody made a CS197 into a single speed? 

Those CS197 dropouts look so close to being adjustable. 

The obstacle here would be chain tension without a tensioner. As it stands, it appears the only solution would be a 100mm English threaded eccentric bottom bracket which I don't even know is out there and would probably be less than ideal, regardless.


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## Mike E. (Jan 5, 2004)

Here's mine:

Ican SN01 frameset
Turnagin wheelset/Husker Du's
Raceface all around
XT 1 X 11
Elixer 5's....the only used parts on it.

Took me a while to build up....life seems to get in the way.
Yes, I know, the rear hydraulic line has a goofy routing, but it was too short to run around the front of the head tube, and I didn't have time to route it internally....heading out for a week's holidays and want to use it.

Anyway, it should be fun!!

And can't figure out why the pics are upside down and spun....sigh


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## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

SNOWSHOW 2XL tires on CS-197 frame, plenty room still


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## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

What do you think about the weight of this combo build ?


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## wardo78 (Apr 22, 2005)

Sorry for the dupe post, can't figure out how to delete.

Thanks,
Ward


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## wardo78 (Apr 22, 2005)

Carbon Speed Bikes said:


> SNOWSHOW 2XL tires on CS-197 frame, plenty room still
> View attachment 1153181
> View attachment 1153182


What width rims are those?

Thanks,
Ward


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

wardo78 said:


> What width rims are those?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ward


Looks like 65mm (or possibly 80mm.)
Would be good to see clearance on 100mm.


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## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

wardo78 said:


> What width rims are those?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ward


Ward, those are 100mm width rims  FHR100C-25.3mm 100mm wide hookless 26er fat bike rim carbon clincher - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd
YHR100C-25mm fat bike rim - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## wardo78 (Apr 22, 2005)

Carbon Speed Bikes said:


> Ward, those are 100mm width rims  FHR100C-25.3mm 100mm wide hookless 26er fat bike rim carbon clincher - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd
> YHR100C-25mm fat bike rim - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


Whoa, that answers that!

Ward


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

So far my CS-197 has been really good. Clears a Mastodon no problem.

Currently using 29x3 wheels with the axle in the forward position, 26x4.8" Vee snow avalanche tires on 90mm rims have lots of space with the axle in the forward position.

I really wish Vee would make a bigger snow avalanche or Surly would come out with a bigger bud with decent sidewalls, probably end up cutting down some 2xl's.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Carbon Speed Bikes said:


> Ward, those are 100mm width rims  FHR100C-25.3mm 100mm wide hookless 26er fat bike rim carbon clincher - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd
> YHR100C-25mm fat bike rim - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


Awesome!
It was the higher profile of the rim that tricked me into guessing 80mm or 65mm. And of course, the massive 2XLs can make even a 100mm rim look ''narrow'' 
Good work on the wheels and frame, Peter!
I just got a nice idea seeing that dropout, so I will contact you.


----------



## wardo78 (Apr 22, 2005)

Espen W said:


> Awesome!
> It was the higher profile of the rim that tricked me into guessing 80mm or 65mm. And of course, the massive 2XLs can make even a 100mm rim look ''narrow''
> Good work on the wheels and frame, Peter!
> I just got a nice idea seeing that dropout, so I will contact you.


Espen,
I took a look at the Kindernay internal hub website. That looks great! I have been looking for a good, light IGH over the years, and it finally looks like one is coming our way. Are you a principle at the company? I am guessing you are thinking about substituting sliders for the "chips" on the CS-197.
Ward


----------



## Kay9Cop (Sep 4, 2014)

Anyone running the full suspension carbon frame with 12x197 rear spacing? How big of a tire have you fit on the back?


----------



## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

Is it possible to get a good picture of the chainline on this bike in the lowest/easiest gear? How much chain rub on the tire is there? Does the cassette need to be spaced outward?

Thanks



Carbon Speed Bikes said:


> SNOWSHOW 2XL tires on CS-197 frame, plenty room still
> View attachment 1153181
> View attachment 1153182


----------



## KAS811 (Sep 30, 2016)

Anyone using a dropper on their CS-197? I am just starting to build mine and am thinking that I definitely want to throw one on. I have been searching for pics of an internally routed dropper preferably, but not much luck. I am open to non "stealth" routed dropper posts if it comes down to that. Anyone here with one?

If I go with a dropper, it looks like the KS LEV would be a good option with the external cable that is stationary, and route it through the top tube holes.


----------



## Freerider (Feb 18, 2004)

Does anyone know if the XM CS-197 frame is designed around a 100mm or 120mm Bluto? I've got the frame already, just wondering what size Bluto I should be looking for?


----------



## KAS811 (Sep 30, 2016)

Freerider said:


> Does anyone know if the XM CS-197 frame is designed around a 100mm or 120mm Bluto? I've got the frame already, just wondering what size Bluto I should be looking for?


I have the 120 on mine.


----------



## Freerider (Feb 18, 2004)

KAS811 said:


> I have the 120 on mine.


How is it with the 120? Not too slack?


----------



## KAS811 (Sep 30, 2016)

I am building this bike as we speak so I cannot say. I have one on another carbon FB and it is great. Certainly beneficial on the trails I ride.


----------



## Freerider (Feb 18, 2004)

Ok, thanks for the input. I will probably go with a 120. If it's too slack, it can easily be lowered to a 100 if necessary I suppose.


----------



## Parus Cristatus (Mar 13, 2013)

Hi,
I am searching a 177x12 thru axle carbon hardtail frame...
But I did not find one. If someone know a supplier, I will be glad...
thanks a lot for your help...


----------



## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Parus Cristatus said:


> Hi,
> I am searching a 177x12 thru axle carbon hardtail frame...
> But I did not find one. If someone know a supplier, I will be glad...
> thanks a lot for your help...


Try Lamere or Salsa Beargrease.


----------



## mccartney7499 (Jul 18, 2004)

*Joining the party*

After spending some time reading through this thread I decided to try a chinese carbon frame as a replacement for my Moto frame that cracked last spring. Happy with it so far (2 lbs lighter than the Moto w/ better fit and geometry). Gonna get out for my first ride today!


----------



## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

Parus Cristatus said:


> Hi,
> I am searching a 177x12 thru axle carbon hardtail frame...
> But I did not find one. If someone know a supplier, I will be glad...
> thanks a lot for your help...


Try looking at Sarma bikes. There's is 170x12 thru axle.


----------



## mccartney7499 (Jul 18, 2004)

A couple from today's maiden voyage. Bike handled great!


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## cromb (Jan 29, 2017)

I am about to pull the trigger on the FM191. I just can't decide on what size. I am 5'11" and I am looking at the 17.5" or the 19". Usually when I am on the border of two road bike sizes I size down but I don't know the sizing on these fat bikes really at all. Any thoughts, experience with sizing?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

cromb said:


> I am about to pull the trigger on the FM191. I just can't decide on what size. I am 5'11" and I am looking at the 17.5" or the 19". Usually when I am on the border of two road bike sizes I size down but I don't know the sizing on these fat bikes really at all. Any thoughts, experience with sizing?


I just ordered one for a friend who is about 5' 9" and he went with the 17.5. it is a touch taller then we would like but the 15 was too small. unless you have really long legs i would say the 17.5. i am 6' and have a 33 inseam and ride the 19.


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## Parus Cristatus (Mar 13, 2013)

To Sryanak & majack
Thanks a lot


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## cromb (Jan 29, 2017)

Jefflinde said:


> I just ordered one for a friend who is about 5' 9" and he went with the 17.5. it is a touch taller then we would like but the 15 was too small. unless you have really long legs i would say the 17.5. i am 6' and have a 33 inseam and ride the 19.


Jefflinde, do you feel like the 19" fits you pretty well or a little big? How do you feel on the 17.5 you got for your friend?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I would say that the 19 fits me perfectly. I did ride the 17.5 and I had to run the seat post almost all the way up and then i was a bi cramped in the cockpit. The 17.5 had an 80mm stem so it was not super short there either. if your inseam is 30-31 and you want the clearance for your crotch then go 17.5. if you have a longer inseam i would say go 19


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## cromb (Jan 29, 2017)

I am also a 33 inch inseam but that could be fixed with a longer seat post. Dang, I thought 17.5 was going to be perfect for a moment and now I am confused. I need to hit up a bike store and try some bikes out.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

cromb said:


> I am also a 33 inch inseam but that could be fixed with a longer seat post. Dang, I thought 17.5 was going to be perfect for a moment and now I am confused. I need to hit up a bike store and try some bikes out.


If your 5'11" and a 33" inseam I would say go with the smaller frame. The reach on the 19 is long. I have long arms so it kinda makes up for it. You can always adjust the cockpit with seat post like you said and stem length


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Jefflinde said:


> I just ordered one for a friend who is about 5' 9" and he went with the 17.5. it is a touch taller then we would like but the 15 was too small. unless you have really long legs i would say the 17.5. i am 6' and have a 33 inseam and ride the 19.


That'll be perfect, put a 35 or 40mm stem on it. Modern frames have good stand over. The old "always downsize" theory is bunk with modern frames and components.


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## Freedivewi (Dec 20, 2012)

Parts swapping compatibility? 
I have a 2017 Fatboy Base in a large, but I really need a medium. I was looking at frames to swap out with, but Specialized only sells their carbon frame for $2,000. Started looking at this thread and wondered about a Chinese Carbon frame that I could swap as many of my parts over to as possible. 
Can anyone with more experience tell me if this would work? I know that the wheels would work, but am unsure about things like bottom brackets, headsets and my current fork- I have a carbon one and would just assume keep it as start over. Seat posts are a little deal and can be swapped out easily enough. 

Thanks, 
Jon


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

BBs are cheap as, so why not start with a new one?

List the specs of the Fatboy, thatll make it easier for someone to help you, 
eg:
Wheels, axle & width
Seatpost diameter
Fork, straight or tapered?
BB, pressfit or screw in

If your fork fits the new frame then stem/handlebar will be ok


----------



## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

FM190 frames in 15.5''/17.5''/19'' on sale, anyone has interest ? FM190 fat bike carbon snow frame for 190/197*12mm axle - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Carbon Speed Bikes said:


> FM190 frames in 15.5''/17.5''/19'' on sale, anyone has interest ? FM190 fat bike carbon snow frame for 190/197*12mm axle - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


depends on how big the sale is. What is the new price?


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## Freedivewi (Dec 20, 2012)

Here's a link to the bike: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/fatboy/115629
I know that it has a threaded bottom bracket, but can't figure out a size from what I read on the website. I know that the fork is tapered, but with a 46mm offset- so I'm not sure how well that plays with the frame. Not sure if the headset would transfer over or if it's easier to just buy a new one. Wheels look like they would fit a 197 frame- kind of a novice to all of the numbers so I don't quite get how a frame can be 190 and 197 but I'm sure there's a simple explanation that I just haven't read yet. 
Thanks for educating a newbie.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Freedivewi said:


> Here's a link to the bike: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/fatboy/115629
> I know that it has a threaded bottom bracket, but can't figure out a size from what I read on the website. I know that the fork is tapered, but with a 46mm offset- so I'm not sure how well that plays with the frame. Not sure if the headset would transfer over or if it's easier to just buy a new one. Wheels look like they would fit a 197 frame- kind of a novice to all of the numbers so I don't quite get how a frame can be 190 and 197 but I'm sure there's a simple explanation that I just haven't read yet.
> Thanks for educating a newbie.


About the offset, you will need to try it and see. The Fatboy usess the Aeffect cranks, from memory these are 24mm wide therefore any threaded BB that suits "Hollowtech" will work (or get RaceFace BB to match the crank), your problem will be the plastic sleeve to keep water/crud out, l personally dont run the sleeve and drilled a 3mm hole in the frame under the BB. I wait till Shimano BBs are on sale (~$15) then buy a couple. 
190/197mm rear, difference is a spacer, this shouldnt be a issue as you use 197mm.
Headset, get a new one, Cane Creek 40 is recommended, l have it one and its a good piece of kit (double check it will fit your new frame), headsets that come with the frames have no water/dustproofing, but mine did last 1.5yrs.
Youll probably need a new searpost as most Chinga frames are 31.6mm and you have 30.9mm.

Lastly lm not up to date on the current frames, l ride a 3yr old lCAN SN01 frame, do a lot of reading in this thread to see failures and also good reports, lastly some companies largest frames are 20 while others are 21, not sure if this effects you, also fitment of a suspension fork (if thats on your mind) can be problematic on the smaller frames due to frame strikes (there are fixes though).

Maybe someone will chime in with a frame suggestion for you.


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## richardthird (Oct 20, 2017)

*Cs-197*

Hi, thanks to this thread I bought a CS-197 which is almost ready to ride.

Except I can't figure the rear brake mount. Assumed it's a flat mount so bought Shimano flat mount to 160 rear adaptor SM-MA-R160 P/D. This doesn't fit though, the threaded holes on this adaptor don't match the frame.

There were no adaptors etc in the packaging, I did check that. I've also emailed Pete Xu on this.

ETA WOW such a fast response by email from Pete Xu. He's been a pleasure to deal with. Seems the bespoke adaptor usually included, was not sent with my frame.


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## KAS811 (Sep 30, 2016)

I would also like to know the answer to this. I will be putting XT brakes on with a 203mm rotor up front and a 180 on the rear. I do not have any adapters yet.


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## richardthird (Oct 20, 2017)

Peter replied by email very quickly with the photo below. The frame should ship with the pictured bespoke mount which I assume allows you to position the caliper for either of the axle dropout postitions. This mount was missing from my shipment. It will take a standard brake caliper.

It's designed for a 160 rotor, a further PM-PM adaptor may allow a 180 but I don't think there's enough clearance.

(When ordering, perhaps get a couple spare mech hangers too)


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## richardthird (Oct 20, 2017)

Whoops, I found mine in the bubble wrap! Check it all carefully folks!

And it looks like you will fit a 180 rear with a 160-180 std Post to Post adaptor. Fork is std post mount for 160 or std Post Mount adaptors for larger.


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## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

Jefflinde said:


> depends on how big the sale is. What is the new price?


They are 350 USD/piece on frame with fitting rear 197x12 axle for sale now, no size 21'' though


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

I'm looking to buy a SN01 frame from Ican and was wondering if the frame comes with the rear through axle bolt (I've emailed them a few days ago but no response yet), as the website doesn't show or mention one. Also does it use the 12mm standard thread pitch?

TIA :thumbsup:


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

JackWare said:


> I'm looking to buy a SN01 frame from Ican and was wondering if the frame comes with the rear through axle bolt (I've emailed them a few days ago but no response yet), as the website doesn't show or mention one. Also does it use the 12mm standard thread pitch?
> 
> TIA :thumbsup:


Yes, usually they do. So I've purchase 3 frames and they all came with it.


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Which frames have a gloss finish and a visible weave?


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

JackWare said:


> I'm looking to buy a SN01 frame from Ican and was wondering if the frame comes with the rear through axle bolt (I've emailed them a few days ago but no response yet), as the website doesn't show or mention one. Also does it use the 12mm standard thread pitch?
> 
> TIA


1.5mm thread pitch.









Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Lars_D said:


> Which frames have a gloss finish and a visible weave?


Visible weave? Parts like frames and rims are made from unidirectional carbon layers, which don't have a "weave", that's just a cosmetic layer that is added on the top of some of the carbon rims. I have a gloss XM carbonspeed CS-197 that I had them use matte lettering for the brand, I can see the raw carbon at pretty much all angles, which I think is nice, but it's definitely not a "weave".

Otherwise, manufacturers like XM carbon let you choose the color or whether you want gloss/matte, etc.


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Visible weave? Parts like frames and rims are made from unidirectional carbon layers, which don't have a "weave", that's just a cosmetic layer that is added on the top of some of the carbon rims. I have a gloss XM carbonspeed CS-197 that I had them use matte lettering for the brand, I can see the raw carbon at pretty much all angles, which I think is nice, but it's definitely not a "weave".
> 
> Otherwise, manufacturers like XM carbon let you choose the color or whether you want gloss/matte, etc.


Nextie rims have an option for a cosmetic weave on top. I am looking for a frame option to match.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I have not come across a fat bike that has what you are looking for. I have seen some hard tail frames that have been in 3k and 12k but never a fat bike. You are most likely going to have to talk to each company to see if they will do it for you as a one off type thing.


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## cromb (Jan 29, 2017)

I am finishing up my FM191 build and working on my brakes. I am seeing an issue with how they built my internal routing to the rear brake. The hole is the same size all the way through. I can route my brake cable HOUSING all the way through the internal route to the brake. Shouldn't it only go in a half inch like everything else? Or am I missing something?


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## cromb (Jan 29, 2017)

Never mind. I guess that is how it is supposed to be. Some of this is new to me coming from non-disc brake bikes.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I have built 2 fm191s and if you are running hydros the hose will go all the way through the frame. If you are running cable brakes the housing should be run through all the way as well.


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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

Got my medium CS197 today and was disappointed to find that Snowshoe 2XL barely fit on 100mm rims. At 3psi the lugs barely clear the chain stays, at 8 psi they rub and at 15 psi ( which I would never ride) the tire doesn't move. I tried on 2 different rims, Clownshoe and HED BFD with same result. Tires are tubed, expect it to be worse tubeless. Just a warning to those ordering the frame for 2XL on 100mm. I'll probably trim some of the lugs. Otherwise the frame is really nice and weighs 2 lbs less than the Blackbarrow it is replacing.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

campykid said:


> Got my medium CS197 today and was disappointed to find that Snowshoe 2XL barely fit on 100mm rims. At 3psi the lugs barely clear the chain stays, at 8 psi they rub and at 15 psi ( which I would never ride) the tire doesn't move. I tried on 2 different rims, Clownshoe and HED BFD with same result. Tires are tubed, expect it to be worse tubeless. Just a warning to those ordering the frame for 2XL on 100mm. I'll probably trim some of the lugs. Otherwise the frame is really nice and weighs 2 lbs less than the Blackbarrow it is replacing.


This is with the axle set in the most rearward position?

There's the guy with the picture at the top of this page with carbonspeed rims and the 2XL tires, says he has plenty of clearance?


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## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

Yes, rear position. Don't know how the other poster got it to fit with "plenty of room".


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

campykid said:


> Yes, rear position. Don't know how the other poster got it to fit with "plenty of room".


Please post photos.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Freedivewi said:


> Parts swapping compatibility?
> I have a 2017 Fatboy Base in a large, but I really need a medium. I was looking at frames to swap out with, but Specialized only sells their carbon frame for $2,000. Started looking at this thread and wondered about a Chinese Carbon frame that I could swap as many of my parts over to as possible.
> Can anyone with more experience tell me if this would work? I know that the wheels would work, but am unsure about things like bottom brackets, headsets and my current fork- I have a carbon one and would just assume keep it as start over. Seat posts are a little deal and can be swapped out easily enough.
> 
> ...


I actually did just this. Had an XL Fatboy I snagged used locally for a great price, and while it was very nice it was just a bit on the too big side of things for my taste. I made it work for a full winter, but the standover and reach were off enough that I bought a CS-197 from Peter and could not be happier. I bought new cranks (Race Face Turbine Cinch) but moved over the post, saddle, stem, bars, brakes, wheels, tires, shifter, derailleur, and cassette. In the process I also changed to 1x10 so didn't move over the front derailleur. My wheels already had Hope hubs, so converting for the different dropouts was simple with new end caps. Note that unless your Fatboy has a Bluto, the front end is 135mm QR and the rear on a Fatboy is 190 QR (or at least those were the specs on my 2014 Fatboy). Also be advised that the fork I bought from Peter for my CS-197 had different geo from the Fatboy fork. I had little difficulty selling the Fatboy frame and fork locally.

Fred


----------



## KAS811 (Sep 30, 2016)

Hey guys, I'm having a bit of an issue with my headset. I just finished the build but something is going on with the headset. I tightened it down properly but There is severe friction on and am unable to turn the wheel freely. I am using a bluto and a Cane Creek Forty headset. I do not recall which one it is off the top of my head at the moment, almost positive that it is the Cane Creek IS42/IS52 Tapered headset. \

Two questions: Is this the correct headset to be using? And.....are you using a crown race on the bluto? This is frustrating to say the least. I am pretty sure I have the headset set up correctly. Just trying to pinpoint the problem.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

KAS811 said:


> Hey guys, I'm having a bit of an issue with my headset. I just finished the build but something is going on with the headset. I tightened it down properly but There is severe friction on and am unable to turn the wheel freely. I am using a bluto and a Cane Creek Forty headset. I do not recall which one it is off the top of my head at the moment, almost positive that it is the Cane Creek IS42/IS52 Tapered headset. \
> 
> Two questions: Is this the correct headset to be using? And.....are you using a crown race on the bluto? This is frustrating to say the least. I am pretty sure I have the headset set up correctly. Just trying to pinpoint the problem.


Guessing the cap is contacting the headtube. If so you will need a shim between the top bearing and the cap. I had to add a shim on my CC 110.


----------



## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

RagerXS said:


> Please post photos.


Here they are. Never realized how hard it is to capture tire/chain stay clearance! Not very clear.


----------



## niandrion (Sep 20, 2015)

campykid said:


> Here they are. Never realized how hard it is to capture tire/chain stay clearance! Not very clear.


Wow. Is this 169mm spindle, or 189? And is this a turbine cinch? What about clearance btwn crank and cs? Thx.


----------



## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

190 next sl. I adjusted spacers to move chainline close to tire in 1st gear so chain does not fall down cassette when backpedaling. Plenty of clearance between cranks and chain stays.


----------



## wardo78 (Apr 22, 2005)

I completed the build on my CS197 a few weeks ago, but have been slow to post pics. I sold a Carver to buy it. I no longer ride fat year round, but use a 27.5+ in the non-snow months. With that in mind, I wanted to try a fat bike that had the ability to go really wide. For the frame, I bought a large, although I ordinarily ride a medium. Looking at the specs I figured that with a VERY short stem the geometry would be better than a medium for me. I only have one short ride, but it seemed to ride as expected. I have the rear wheel chip in the back setting with 100mm rims and 4.8" Vee Snowshoe XL's on there. You can see in the last picture that there is plenty of clearance, enough that I think I could run the rear wheel in the forward position if I so choose. I am not sure if the chain would clear the tire though, it just does so in it's current position. We are forecast to get some snow soon, so I'll have a more accurate sense of what it rides like then.

Wardo


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nice. I found that my large CS-197 can run an xtra-large revelate frame bag too (the large is stretched way out and far from optimal IMO), which can pack a lot of gear.


----------



## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

wardo78 said:


> I completed the build on my CS197 a few weeks ago, but have been slow to post pics. I sold a Carver to buy it. I no longer ride fat year round, but use a 27.5+ in the non-snow months. With that in mind, I wanted to try a fat bike that had the ability to go really wide. For the frame, I bought a large, although I ordinarily ride a medium. Looking at the specs I figured that with a VERY short stem the geometry would be better than a medium for me. I only have one short ride, but it seemed to ride as expected. I have the rear wheel chip in the back setting with 100mm rims and 4.8" Vee Snowshoe XL's on there. You can see in the last picture that there is plenty of clearance, enough that I think I could run the rear wheel in the forward position if I so choose. I am not sure if the chain would clear the tire though, it just does so in it's current position. We are forecast to get some snow soon, so I'll have a more accurate sense of what it rides like then.
> 
> Wardo


Nice looking bike, Wardo. Since I have the same bike, also in large, I can chime in on a few things here. First, moving the chip fore/aft will change the clearance for different tire diameters and alter the wheelbase. It will have zero impact on chain clearance, but may inspire you to remove a link if moving forward. YMMV. I've run a Specialized Ground Control 4.6, Vee Snowshoe XL, and a Surly Lou in mine with the chip set to the front position. I have seen pics on this forum of our frame with Snowshoe 2XL in the back with the chip in the rear position.

It looks like you have Race Face cranks with a direct mount front chainring. Be advised that if chainline ever becomes an issue, you can reverse mount that chainring to gain more chain clearance. And other brands of narrow-wide front rings are often available in differing amounts of offset. You can really fine tune your chain line with off the shelf options and/or move a spacer from one side of the crank spindle to the other.

We're getting snow this weekend. Can't wait to get mine back out on the trails.

Fred


----------



## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Actually, in addition to the prior post I referenced on the 2XL's, Carbon Speed has pictures at the top of this page (page 41 in case this post starts a new page) with 2XL's on a CS-197.


----------



## KAS811 (Sep 30, 2016)

Just finished my build:

u































Size Medium frame
80mm Carbon wheels- Tubeless
Bluto 120mm Fork
WTB HighTail seat Titanium
Brand X Dropper
Next G4 Crank/Raceface 28T single ring / RF BB
Nukeproof Pedals
NEXT handlebar
Shimano XT brakes/shifter/RD
XT 11-46T Cassette
XT rotors 203 in the front, 180 on the rear
Maxxis Minion 4.8 tires Front and Rear

Love this thing, rides great and feels very light.

Anyone know what rear derailleur hanger to get for this frame? Or where to get them? Want to order a few. Also, this is not a CS-197 frame like I originally thought it was, can anyone identify the frame?


----------



## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

KAS811 said:


> Just finished my CS-197 build
> Anyone know what rear derailleur hanger to get for this frame? Or where to get them? Want to order a few.


Peter at Carbon Speed said the hangers were $8 each when I inquired about a 197 frame.


----------



## Comrade Sukhov (Aug 8, 2016)

KAS811 said:


> Just finished my CS-197 build:
> CS-197 Size Medium frame
> Next G4 Crank/Raceface 28T single ring / RF BB


Do you have 177 or 197 cranks version?


----------



## Comrade Sukhov (Aug 8, 2016)

campykid said:


> Got my medium CS197 today and was disappointed to find that Snowshoe 2XL barely fit on 100mm rims. At 3psi the lugs barely clear the chain stays, at 8 psi they rub and at 15 psi ( which I would never ride) the tire doesn't move. I tried on 2 different rims, Clownshoe and HED BFD with same result. Tires are tubed, expect it to be worse tubeless. Just a warning to those ordering the frame for 2XL on 100mm. I'll probably trim some of the lugs. Otherwise the frame is really nice and weighs 2 lbs less than the Blackbarrow it is replacing.


Could you, please, go for some more details of the Blackborrow?
Did you successfully used it before with 2XL's?
Which model/year/size did you have?
Maybe some photos of your one with 2XL's is available?! 
Thanks!


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

Comrade Sukhov said:


> Do you have 177 or 197 cranks version?


That's not a cs-197. 
I don't think the next cranks have enough offset to clear the chainstay with the 170 spindle


----------



## KAS811 (Sep 30, 2016)

Comrade Sukhov said:


> Do you have 177 or 197 cranks version?


They are the 190 (197) version.


----------



## KAS811 (Sep 30, 2016)

So I confirmed with Peter from CS that the frame I have is NOT a CS-197. I was under the impression that it was. I bought it on ebay so I will have to contact the seller and get some hangers hopefully.


----------



## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

The Blackborrow fits 2XL's on Clownshoes easily. I have the 2016 medium version. I don't have any detail photos of the clearance. I currently have the frame on ebay (Doinksdad) if anybody's interested. I emailed Peter about my CS197 having marginal clearance for 2XL's and he informed me that the closeout model is different from the current model. Rather than eating $200 in back and forth shipping, I trimmed 2mm of knobs from one side and it clears (literally by a hair) at 6 PSI which is as high as I would ever run these tires.


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## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

Carbon Speed new shopping mall: Fat Bike Frame/Wheels/Rim


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## wardo78 (Apr 22, 2005)

RagerXS said:


> Nice looking bike, Wardo. Since I have the same bike, also in large, I can chime in on a few things here. First, moving the chip fore/aft will change the clearance for different tire diameters and alter the wheelbase. It will have zero impact on chain clearance, but may inspire you to remove a link if moving forward. YMMV. I've run a Specialized Ground Control 4.6, Vee Snowshoe XL, and a Surly Lou in mine with the chip set to the front position. I have seen pics on this forum of our frame with Snowshoe 2XL in the back with the chip in the rear position.
> 
> It looks like you have Race Face cranks with a direct mount front chainring. Be advised that if chainline ever becomes an issue, you can reverse mount that chainring to gain more chain clearance. And other brands of narrow-wide front rings are often available in differing amounts of offset. You can really fine tune your chain line with off the shelf options and/or move a spacer from one side of the crank spindle to the other.
> 
> ...


Thanks Fred. We have had snow and I've had a chance to take a real ride on it. I loved everything about it. I was riding tight technical snow covered singletrack and didn't find the chips being set in the rear to be a hindrance. I was also impressed with the climbing. I expected more wheelspin given the long effective CS, but it hooked up fine. I don't think I'll change a thing.
Ward


----------



## Marty van de Korput (Dec 16, 2017)

*Happy with my new fatbike ...*

After riding a Kona Wo fatbike for a while, I'm really addicted. I took my Kona to the Alps to climb 9.000 meters in just 5 days. I hardly ever rode on my 29er since I bought my fatbike and therefore I sold my Cannondale F29 to be able to build up a new light fatbike.

After some investigation and some advise on this forum I decided to go for the new 2017 CS-197 frame, the FK019 fork and the FHR80C-35 rims from Xiamen Carbon Speed. I also was in contact with Peter and got all my questions answered quickly. Also the delivery to The Netherlands went smooth. After I received the track & trace code from Peter, it took exactly 7 for the package to be ready for pickup. Our local PostNL postal service handled the necessary customs procedure.

Please find my component list below:

Frame: Carbon Speed CS-197 (UD Carbon)
Fork: Carbon Speed FK019 (UD Carbon)
Crank: Hope Fatsno 120mm/175mm (32t Hope oval spiderless chainring)
Bottom Bracket: Hope BBSS30C
Pedals: Crankbrothers Mallet E
Chain: SRAM XX1 11sp
Cassette: Hope Cassette 10t-44t
Derailleur: SRAM X01 2.1 11sp
Shifter: SRAM X01 Gripshift 11sp
Brakes: Hope Tech 3 E4
Rotor front: Hope Floating Rotor 180mm
Rotor rear: Hope Floating Rotor 160mm
Headset: Cane Creek 40 Short Cover (IS42/28.6 | IS52/40)
Handlebar: Pro Tharsis XC Riser 15mm (UD carbon)
Stem: Hope AM FR MTB Stem 31.8 70mm
Seatstay: Pro Tharsis XC UD Carbon
Seatstay clamp: Hope Seat Clamp 34,9mm
Grips: SRAM X01 Gripshift + Hope Gripdoctor
Zadel: Fizik Tundra M3
Front Hub: Hope Fatsno Pro4 150mmx15mm
Rear Hub: Hope Fatsno Pro4 197mmx12mm
Spokes: Sapim
Rims: Carbon Speed FHR80C-35 (UD Carbon)
Front Tire: Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 26x4.8"
Rear Tire: Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 26x4.8"
Color: Matt Black UD Carbon with Orange Decals
Size: L (19")
Extra's: 2 x Pro UD Carbon bottle cages

I'm very happy with the end result and so far I received only positive comments ...


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Nice


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## AlexSh (Dec 12, 2017)

I built on the same frame for my wife.



Frame: Carbon Speed CS-197 15,5"
Fork: VPACE CFAT
Seatpost: from Ali (222 г)
Seatclamp: Sixpack Racing Cock Ring black
Handlebar: BXT HB-001 31,8х720 (122 г)
Stem: Radon Stem Light 70mm (95 г)
Headset: Ritchey Comp Drop In Taper IS42/IS52 10mm
Break disk: Shimano XT Disc Rotor SM-RT81M 180mm Center Lock
Break: Shimano Deore Disc Brake BR-M506 Set
Saddle: Ergon SFC3-S Evo Gel Fitness
Grips: Lizard Skins DSP Grip 32.3mm
Crankset: Race Face Turbine 170 for 190
Bottom Brackets: Race Face Cinch - BSA30 Bottom Bracket Cups - BSA-100-30
Chainring: Wolftooth 30t Chainring for RaceFace Cinch Boost
Cassette: SunRace MX8 11-speed Cassette 11-42
Chain: KMC X11EL Silver Chain
Rear Derailleur: Shimano XT 11-speed Rear Derailleur RD-M8000 GS Shadow+
Shifter: Shimano XT 11-speed Rapidfire PLUS SL-M8000
Tyres: Schwalbe Jumbo Jim Evo 26x4.80" LiteSkin Set
Hubs: DT Swiss Classic 350 Big
Spoke: Sapim Laser
Rims: Nextie Xiphias NXT26XS85 PREMIUM 85mm 
Weight: 11 kg


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## jslc (Dec 20, 2017)

I just got shipping confirmation for 2 CS-197 frames (his & her). Now it's time to buy components! This is my first build so I have a few questions:

1. I noticed most hydraulic brakes come pre-assembled. Is this the way to go? If so, how much hose should I look for? (Bluto 120 in front)

2. Are any additional adapters needed to run a 160mm rotor in the rear?

3. Which chainring has good flexibility for manipulating the chainline? I have Surly Bud (hopefully tubeless), Sram Eagle Drivetrain, Raceface Next SL Cranks.

4. Has anyone had success going tubeless with Carbonspeed 80mmX35mm rims and Bud/Lou combo? Any tricks? Should I tape over the spoke holes?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

1. Just buy one rear and one front brake. You will get a 1700mm and 1000mm hose respectively. You will have to take the rear lever off anyways to route the hose through the frame and you will need to trim them both anyways. Always trim from the lever side. Makes re-bleeding them easier. Go shimano if you want to do it yourself as their bleed process is much simpler

2. No

3. You can adjust spacers on the spindle to move it back and forth in the frame. Moving them from one side of the BB to the other will adjust your chainline. If you go with a standard 6mm offset chainring (non boost) you should be fine. I prefer the snaggletooth by blackspire over the RF ones as the teeth are longer and hold better. 

4. No personal experience but the rim should not be a problem it would be up to the tires. Lots of people have great success with the bud/Lou combo.


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## jslc (Dec 20, 2017)

Jefflinde said:


> I prefer the snaggletooth by blackspire over the RF ones as the teeth are longer and hold better.


Thanks for the suggestion. Their website doesn't say 12 speed compatible. I assume it would work though. Do you agree?


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## jslc (Dec 20, 2017)

jslc said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. Their website doesn't say 12 speed compatible. I assume it would work though. Do you agree?


I take it back. It does say 12 speed compatible.


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## buckker (Jan 5, 2018)

Hi

I got my CS-197 frame a week before Christmas. It takes only ony week to get the frame in my hands. Thanks Peter!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

In the meantime I have ridden around 200km and I'm still very happy with my fatbike.

The frame is very nice finished. Everything works perfect. Nothing to complain. The only thing which could be better is the color of the fork. It doesn't match the frames color.. And I also have to remove some resin on the forks bearing support surface. But for me it's not a big deal.

I use the following components:
SRAM GX Eagle Fat5 Direct Mount GXP 12-sped crank
SRAM GX Eagle derailleur 12-speed
SRAM GX Eagle XG-1275 cassette
SRAM GX Eagle gripshift
Shimano XT brakes trail
180mm ICE Tec brake disc
12 R.BAR STYLO T40 R25 31.8 700 BLACK TRUVATIV
Truativ 40mm Stem
BBB Cycling Seatpost
DT Swiss Big Ride 2250 wheels 
Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 4.8"

Weight around 12kg

And a few pictures:













































Cheers Michael


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## AlexSh (Dec 12, 2017)

buckker, what size is this frame?


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

So I'm considering replacing my aging aluminum fatbike frame with something carbon. I'd like to re-use my wheels if possible. They are 170r/135f - are there any frame options still supporting this?


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## buckker (Jan 5, 2018)

@ AlexSh it's a 21" frame


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## jslc (Dec 20, 2017)

bad andy said:


> So I'm considering replacing my aging aluminum fatbike frame with something carbon. I'd like to re-use my wheels if possible. They are 170r/135f - are there any frame options still supporting this?


Check your hubs. They may offer extenders or spacers to go 190r/150f so you have more options.


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## jslc (Dec 20, 2017)

I finished my CS-197 build last week and used a stealth dropper. I hadn't seen anyone with an internally routed dropper so I thought I'd post some details.

I used an e*Thirteen TRS+ 125mm. I went with that post since it's 100% mechanical and should work the same in any temperature. The 125mm seems to fit my medium frame (17.5") perfectly.

Routing the housing was easy:

First, get some string and a plastic grocery sack.
Cut or rip off a section of the sack.








Next, tie the string to the section of sack.








Stuff the sack into the front of the frame where you want the cable to be routed. I chose the hole on the right side. 








Place a vacuum at the seatpost and let it suck! You may have to guide the string into the front of the bike. If your vacuum is not getting enough airflow, you may need to remove your steer tube and make sure your bottom bracket is installed.








Your string should appear at the seatpost. 








The last step is to remove the plastic bag, tape some cable housing to the string (or whatever actuator you're using), and gently pull the string while pushing the housing until it emerges from the front of the frame.


----------



## Gobike200 (May 14, 2016)

Could someone direct me to anyone who has built a full suspension xm carbon speed fattie build or page I've reached but only find 29er. Thanks!


----------



## niandrion (Sep 20, 2015)

*My new CS197*


----------



## Traktor (Oct 18, 2004)

Wow, that’s a beauty! Tell us how you did the paint.


----------



## niandrion (Sep 20, 2015)

This is custom from our local styling studio with my own painting scheme

https://www.instagram.com/hameleon_uhta/


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## Fat-Tire (Feb 10, 2016)

*What to do when things go pear shaped... patience*

I've done prior business with Peter at CarbonSpeed always with good results... two sets of wheels and a frame that are great quality. Like many, I was always a little wary of long-distance transactions like this and wondered what might happen if things go awry. Recently, I found out...

My last purchase was a set of 26' Fat wheels that were to come with orange painted rims and black hubs for a black with orange highlights Bucksaw I am building up for my bride. 
Imagine my surprise when 30days later I received the fat orange rims with Red hubs and spoke nipples. Seriously Fugly they were.

Peter immediately offered to send Black replacement parts and I keep the Red ones as "gifts". But with no need for red hubs and facing a pricey local wheel rebuild, that wouldn't work at all. 
We settled on getting the black hubs shipped in ASAP (2 weeks transit, Ugh!) and sending the red take-offs back once they were rebuilt, with reimbursement for the cost to rebuild the wheels locally, even if I couldn't get it done for $9USD per wheel like he can in China.

Due to the US-China transit time, the error took longer than hoped to resolve but CS product is top-drawer.

Peter was good to his word and I'll be doing more business with CarbonSpeed in the future.


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## FallWithStyle (Apr 16, 2018)

There's lots of great information here. I pulled the trigger on a CS-197, this will be my first fat bike.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Still going, CS-197, that is all.


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

He folks,

nice and very informative forum here. 
I need the rear derailleur hanger for the dropouts for my CS-197 Fatbike Frame. Is anyone able to help me? I wrote Peter an email to his several email accounts but didn't get an answer yet.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Still going SN01, to date : 12174.5 kms


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

No one an idea?


----------



## acetechm3 (Apr 8, 2010)

Gobike200 said:


> Could someone direct me to anyone who has built a full suspension xm carbon speed fattie build or page I've reached but only find 29er. Thanks!


I have a CS-001 and could not be more in love, I don't ride my other bikes anymore, 4 season FS fatty dose it all.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Storch said:


> No one an idea?


 email wheelsmfg.com
They are pretty good at helping out


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

Danke, Junge! So I'll do.


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

He folks, Peter answered me and offered quick help what concerns the dereilleur hanger. 
Is anyone able to say which adapter do I need for the back? Want to install a 180 mm disc from Hope. For the front I used a adapter from PM 160 to 180 mm.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

The rear is 160 PM, so you need 160 to 180.


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## k.b. (Dec 28, 2006)

Looking at jumping aboard. Anybody have a Readers Digest version of the important/relevant posts in the past 40 pages?  I have built a few bikes up in my lifetime but only every 10+ years or so. By that time everything changes. What was standard 5 years ago is obsolete today. i.e. Sram has a DUB crankset they are currently pushing as the new standard. Maybe?, maybenot.

Anyway I am looking at 1x12 and my main concern is getting chainline optimization. I am planning on a 197/150 build.

Although I have good history with Shimano, I believe I will be doing mainly Sram drivetrain and Shimano brakes. (Even though Shimano is coming out with their 1x12 version "soon". ) Ice Tech brakes with metallic pads are unrivalled IMHO.

The only real chainline info I found is here in a quote from earlier in this thread. 
"If you read back a couple pages I just answered that. The 100mm bottom brackets with 190/197 rear need a bunch of spacers. With the 120mm bottom bracket you need less spacers. BUT... there was an issue with Rockshox(sic prolly meant Raceface) not including the correct spacers, but if you contact them they will send out. Otherwise mine has been working just fine and chain-line is great using one 2.5mm BB spacer on non drive side, and then one of their 11.5mm spindle spacers on drive side. With a 100mm BB you need both 11.5 spacers on each side, plus all 3 BB spacers. The spindles are the same length for both a 100mm BB, 120mm BB, 190 rear, or 197 rear. Its just a matter of spacer"

Thanks in advance for any _up to date _advice!


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

Jayem said:


> The rear is 160 PM, so you need 160 to 180.


Okay, thanks Jayem. But as you can see I don't have the little piece as shown on the picture. Who can help?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Storch said:


> Okay, thanks Jayem. But as you can see I don't have the little piece as shown on the picture. Who can help?


You need that part, it's supposed to come with the frame. The purpose is so you can run the brake in the forward or rear dropout position.


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

Yes, I know. But it got lost somehow. I let the frame painted and cannot say whether it was on the frame before - like the plastic clips for example. In any case it is not there. ****.


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

Has anyone this piece left or some measures for me?
Maybe I'll tinker some by myself. Maybe with the help of this: 
https://r2-bike.com/SHIMANO-Adapter...MIwYnnn-G93QIVReh3Ch2NrQKzEAQYASABEgLKd_D_BwE


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Storch said:


> Has anyone this piece left or some measures for me?
> Maybe I'll tinker some by myself. Maybe with the help of this:
> https://r2-bike.com/SHIMANO-Adapter...MIwYnnn-G93QIVReh3Ch2NrQKzEAQYASABEgLKd_D_BwE


Am I to understand that XM Carbonspeed can not get this part for you?


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

No, they cannot.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

I've read/heard that mtrbtools.com is pretty good at making custom things. Maybe reach out to him and see what he can do? otherwise a friend that has a machine shop nearby? 

You may be onto something with the shimano flat mount brake adaptor, but I think you might not have the adjustability options with that. but for $20 it is probably your easiest best shot even if it doesn't work.


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## plasmaguy (Mar 17, 2012)

Is Carbonspeed the main Chinese manufacturer in full suspension fat bike frames. That will deal with DIY'ers?

And while we're at it... Can someone enlighten me as to their linkage design versus the design that is used on Pivot or Trek? What is the name of this linkage?

Thanks,

Tom


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

Any deals on a carbon frame & rigid fork right now? I'm looking for a 26"x4.8 compatible frame. I saw the post on the FM197 for $350 and emailed xmcarbon speed. Thanks in advance !


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## RHYGIN1969 (Sep 26, 2018)

Been watching and reading this thread for sometime now...

Three questions for the group - 
1) Anyone running alternative fork to the carbon one or a Bluto? Lefty Olaf? Any insights as to whether the Manitou Mastodon will clear the down tube?
2) Been emailing with Peter and got the following response to a question regarding brake rotor sizes: "Yes, you can use 180mm disc front, but maybe you need adaptor spacer" Slighty strange answer... 180 in the front, 160 in the back and everything is read to go is my understanding
3) Back to the BTM bracket and spacing question (I know, again)... anyone recommended part numbers?

Thanks for the inclusion!


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## Mikevdv (Sep 26, 2018)

Hey guys trolling this thread and others for a bit. 
Was looking at an ICAN SN01 to build up and am ready to pull the trigger. 

I like the geometry better than the CS bikes listed. 

Was hoping to fit it up with 12spd GX eagle cassette derailer shifter and chain. 
speaking with one of the reps he inidcated that the GX eagle won't fit that frame!?

I couldn't get a technical explanation due to the language barrier too much gets lost in translation. but it leaves me confused on what will and won't work for a groupset. 

can anyone enlighten me on the potential fitment issues. 
Or is this just more translational confusion.


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## Fattyrider38 (Jun 7, 2018)

they are, as far as Ive been able to find only two wheels exist that will fit 190x12 rear, hope and dt swiss, kind of a pain to be so limited in wheel options.


GoPlayOutside said:


> Looks like a 190mm rear spacing


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## Fattyrider38 (Jun 7, 2018)

*Heres my FM190*









Here is my FM190, built up. Just a word of caution with these frames, I originally built this up as a 27.5+ my first ride I went off a small jump and sliced my rear axle in half which caused my wheel to crank over and it cracked my seat stay. These companies in china are very quick to reply to you about a sale, but when it comes to a warranty issue they are all of the sudden absent. I could never get them to reply about a replacement to an obvious factory defect with there axle, so I got a carbon patch kit and fixed it myself. Pretty lame, so yes they are definitely cheap, and for the most part decent frames, since I fixed my stay, Ive ridden this frame a lot and never had any other issues, but just be aware the price point comes with some risks. Also my frame is 190 spaced in the rear which makes it a major Pain to find a wheel that fits, over my research I only found two hubs that come in that size, Hope Fatsno, and DT Swiss Big ride, and figuring out what adapters you need to buy is not easy, I had to do a **** ton of research to accomplish that. But here it is, the fork is also a chinese produced carbon bike part, but it was only a 100 bucks and is the lightest fork I've ever seen. Wheels DT Swiss, the rest pretty much all carbon, size medium comes in at a hair over 26 pounds tubeless with Dillinger 5's!


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## Fattyrider38 (Jun 7, 2018)

Hey man, is there any way you could tell me what frame bag you have there and what size your frame is? looks like it fits perfectly, I have a medium frame and am trying to figure out what frame bag I an buy that will fit it?


Jayem said:


> Still going, CS-197, that is all.
> 
> View attachment 1214606
> 
> ...


----------



## Fattyrider38 (Jun 7, 2018)

Does anyone know what frame bag would fit a size medium FM190? Looking to purchase a production frame bag and I figured some one from this thread had found a few good options?


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## k.b. (Dec 28, 2006)

Fattyrider38 said:


> Here is my FM190, built up. Just a word of caution with these frames, I originally built this up as a 27.5+ my first ride I went off a small jump and sliced my rear axle in half which caused my wheel to crank over and it cracked my seat stay. *These companies in china *are very quick to reply to you about a sale, but when it comes to a warranty issue they are all of the sudden absent. I could never get them to reply about a replacement to an obvious factory defect with there axle, so I got a carbon patch kit and fixed it myself. Pretty lame, so yes they are definitely cheap, and for the most part decent frames, since I fixed my stay, Ive ridden this frame a lot and never had any other issues, but just be aware the price point comes with some risks. Also my frame is 190 spaced in the rear which makes it a major Pain to find a wheel that fits, over my research I only found two hubs that come in that size, Hope Fatsno, and DT Swiss Big ride, and figuring out what adapters you need to buy is not easy, I had to do a **** ton of research to accomplish that. But here it is, the fork is also a chinese produced carbon bike part, but it was only a 100 bucks and is the lightest fork I've ever seen. Wheels DT Swiss, the rest pretty much all carbon, size medium comes in at a hair over 26 pounds tubeless with Dillinger 5's!


Good info to know. Thanks! I am not sure that you can lump all "these companies" together but Dengfu is duly noted as lacking in the warranty dept. in my book. Nice to hear you made it work. I googled "bike carbon repair" and I see a few u-tubes on that.


----------



## k.b. (Dec 28, 2006)

RHYGIN1969 said:


> Been watching and reading this thread for sometime now...
> 
> Three questions for the group -
> 1) Anyone running alternative fork to the carbon one or a Bluto? Lefty Olaf? Any insights as to whether the Manitou Mastodon will clear the down tube?
> ...


There is indeed a confusing array of "adapter spacers" out there to make the 180 disc fit the standard 160. I see Jensen has one for $6.99 but I am not sure if it is the correct one for your application. Hoping perhaps a veteran builder will chime in
with the exact specs needed.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Fattyrider38 said:


> Hey man, is there any way you could tell me what frame bag you have there and what size your frame is? looks like it fits perfectly, I have a medium frame and am trying to figure out what frame bag I an buy that will fit it?


It's an Evoc, but it doesn't fit fatbike wheels, fatbike frames barely fit, I use it with my other bikes. Supposedly they do make a larger bag for fat bikes, although 90-100 rims are huge and I've heard of people taking them as carry-ons. Otherwise, the Evoc bag works awesome.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

RHYGIN1969 said:


> Been watching and reading this thread for sometime now...
> 
> Three questions for the group -
> 1) Anyone running alternative fork to the carbon one or a Bluto? Lefty Olaf? Any insights as to whether the Manitou Mastodon will clear the down tube?
> ...


Brake adapters are specific to the brakes, not the frame/fork, except that there are sometimes max sizes that if you go over, would put too much stress on the system. It sounds like you are looking for brake adapters for your brakes?


----------



## RHYGIN1969 (Sep 26, 2018)

I am looking to understand if this is a straight forward flat mount... shimano (say, XT) or there is a set of adapters needed. Looks like a basic flat mount. Is that right?


----------



## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

arc said:


> So far my CS-197 has been really good. Clears a Mastodon no problem.
> 
> Currently using 29x3 wheels with the axle in the forward position, 26x4.8" Vee snow avalanche tires on 90mm rims have lots of space with the axle in the forward position.
> 
> I really wish Vee would make a bigger snow avalanche or Surly would come out with a bigger bud with decent sidewalls, probably end up cutting down some 2xl's.


Which Mastodon are you running? I'm curious about the impact to the geometry with so many variations available.

Fred


----------



## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

What's the correct A-C length for the CS-197? I'm trying to choose which Mastodon fork to purchase, and I don't want to screw up the geometry too much.

Fred


----------



## k.b. (Dec 28, 2006)

Thanks one and all who went before to inspire me to do this build. Way more fun than just dropping down a wad of cash at the LBS. Almost done, still waiting on a few small items. 25 lbs so far.









Is the white lettering too gaudy? Maybe I'll try black on the other side.


----------



## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

First, I appreciate the ID number on your fork :cornut: -bike looks great!

I have a question about the frame. Which frame is it? It looks like it has sliding drop outs, does it? (on second look, it may be an illusion from the shadow of the TA nut making it look as if it has sliding dropouts. Is it a CS197 frame)



k.b. said:


> Thanks one and all who went before to inspire me to do this build. Way more fun than just dropping down a wad of cash at the LBS. Almost done, still waiting on a few small items. 25 lbs so far.
> 
> View attachment 1224779
> 
> ...


----------



## k.b. (Dec 28, 2006)

Yes CS197 from Peter Xu. Sliding dropouts? yes. You have 2 choices on where to insert your thru axle. I put it in the rear hole...(wait... that almost sounds dirty). I now see no real reason to use the rear position, maybe if you like steep climbing ability or higher sprint speeds on hardpack. The shorter chainstay, the more agile the frame will be in singletrack conditions, and closer resemble MTB geometry. Mine has 1.5" of room in front of my BFL tire. Even a XXL Snowshoe only get 3/4" larger in radius. I will just try the longer position for a while before I shorten the chain and reset the "b-gap" of the Sram drivetrain.
Edit: Oh, and I will have to move the dual piston rear brake caliper forward as well, there were additional tapped holes in the adapter supplied by Peter.


----------



## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

What I need now is a rear axle. I cannot find the right one on the internet. Even aliexpress doesn't have it. Only 235 mm.
Can anyone help, please? Mine is defect.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Car....html?spm=2114.search0204.8.25.20281b3fnmJyjV

Bye

Jens


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

k.b. said:


> Even a XXL Snowshoe only get 3/4" larger in radius. I will just try the longer position for a while before I shorten the chain and reset the "b-gap" of the Sram drivetrain.


The Johnny 5 wouldn't fit without rubbing unless I used the rearward position.


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## Rango (Nov 10, 2014)

contact the company that made your frame. 
that's not at all standard. 
where do you even get a rear hub?

I googled 235mm rear hub and found this for an axel:
HD High Tensile 15mm Axle, 235mm Rear Axle


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Storch said:


> What I need now is a rear axle. I cannot find the right one on the internet. Even aliexpress doesn't have it. Only 235 mm.
> Can anyone help, please? Mine is defect.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Car....html?spm=2114.search0204.8.25.20281b3fnmJyjV
> ...


Try contacting Robert axle project.
https://robertaxleproject.com/thunder-bolt-axles-fat-bikes/


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## ator (Aug 18, 2015)

anyone know for sure if these come with the rear axle? I would think so but it doesn't say

Thanks

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26er-15-5-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

ator said:


> anyone know for sure if these come with the rear axle? I would think so but it doesn't say
> 
> Thanks
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/26er-15-5-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Did you try to contact the seller?


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

Rango said:


> contact the company that made your frame.
> that's not at all standard.
> where do you even get a rear hub?
> 
> ...


235 mm is not enough as I wrote above.


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

Storch said:


> 235 mm is not enough as I wrote above.


It might help if you said how long you need the axle to be and the threads it requires. What bike you have will also help.

Tim


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

Robert axle project isn't able to help me. I need something about 255 mm - as shown in the picture. 
I have this frame: 

CS-197 NEW Two position dropout Fat Bike Frame CS-197 - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Storch said:


> Robert axle project isn't able to help me. I need something about 255 mm - as shown in the picture.
> I have this frame:
> 
> CS-197 NEW Two position dropout Fat Bike Frame CS-197 - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


You need to get that from Peter / Carbonspeed. Expecially if yours is defective because he should cover it under warranty.


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

RagerXS said:


> You need to get that from Peter / Carbonspeed. Expecially if yours is defective because he should cover it under warranty.


Did anyone hear something from Peter? I don't get an answer although I tried several times since January. Last mail is from 03.01.2019.
Is he alive? Peter, if you read this...I need you. It is getting summer now and I need that goddamn axle (260 mm).

Bye

Jens


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Storch said:


> Did anyone hear something from Peter? I don't get an answer although I tried several times since January. Last mail is from 03.01.2019.
> Is he alive? Peter, if you read this...I need you. It is getting summer now and I need that goddamn axle (260 mm).
> 
> Bye
> ...


He replied to an email of mine on Feb 11th


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

You lucky guy.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Storch said:


> Did anyone hear something from Peter? I don't get an answer although I tried several times since January. Last mail is from 03.01.2019.
> Is he alive? Peter, if you read this...I need you. It is getting summer now and I need that goddamn axle (260 mm).
> 
> Bye
> ...


Good luck.
I sent emails to all his accounts listed when I wanted to buy a CS197.
I got 1 vague reply 2 weeks later.....and I moved on.


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## grisha (Oct 28, 2007)

Another ICAN SN01. M size. Frame fits Jumbo Jim 4.8 on 90mm rim without any problems.


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## Hytek369 (Jun 23, 2015)

Is there a link to buy a fully built FM190? Thanks in advance.


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## El_Topo (Jul 26, 2018)

Hey guys,

is there a chinese frame that is comparable or at least comes close to the *Otso Voytek*, as in having a 83mm BB and 170/177 rear and most importantly enabling a >190mm Q-factor (with the right cranks obviously) while still clearing 4.6" tires? 
I did some research on this topic but didn't find anything because getting a grip on all the different carbon frames got my head spinning..
My knees can't handle the Q-factors of most frames, my wallet can't handle the Voytek's price and I fear going full OCD with a custom titanium frame and then screwing up a detail because I didn't do my homework. :-(

Thanks in advance for any recommendations.


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## 00steven (Jun 18, 2019)

*Carbon Speed*

I've been corresponding with Peter at CarbonSpeed regarding a purchase (CS197 frame). He's been quick to respond. Did he ever get back to you, Jens? I may reconsider if support is nonexistent.

Also, has anyone purchased a frame or wheels since the new 25% tarriff? Do we get an assessment that has to be paid when the shipment arrives stateside in addition to the purchase price?


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

00steven said:


> .
> 
> Also, has anyone purchased a frame or wheels since the new 25% tarriff? Do we get an assessment that has to be paid when the shipment arrives stateside in addition to the purchase price?


I purchased some rims recently. No tariff, but they were marked as promotional. Not sure.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## k.b. (Dec 28, 2006)

00steven said:


> Also, has anyone purchased a frame or wheels since the new 25% tarriff? Do we get an assessment that has to be paid when the shipment arrives stateside in addition to the purchase price?


I recently got stuff from Ali Express with no tariff imposed. This stuff is all small potatoes compared to boatloads of shipping containers with "bills of Lading" etc. The government can be slow at things. Especially if they keep changing the tariffs. Imagine if the Mexico tariff was actually implemented. Everyone who came across the border with a $10 Mexican blanket they purchased would be assessed. Talk about a slowdown.

I am not sure there is any system setup to currently monitor this. I bought a $250 bike jacket from Spain about 5 years ago and it did trip the "$200 or over" limit in place at that time and I was assessed something by DHL. When getting stuff in the past from Canada thru USPS, there was no fee but with UPS there was a fee. I sometimes see a lower "estimated value" or "gift" printed on the outside on small packages I receive from China thru Ali, so they are used to finding ways to bypass the system for other countries like UK VAT etc.

Peter (Carbonspeed) seems to be a straight shooter from my personal experience and all that I have read, so you should ask him.


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## Storch (Aug 28, 2018)

00steven said:


> I've been corresponding with Peter at CarbonSpeed regarding a purchase (CS197 frame). He's been quick to respond. Did he ever get back to you, Jens? I may reconsider if support is nonexistent.
> 
> Also, has anyone purchased a frame or wheels since the new 25% tarriff? Do we get an assessment that has to be paid when the shipment arrives stateside in addition to the purchase price?


Peter never wrote back since the time of point when I needed the axle.
When I needed the rear dropout hanger (as written some pages back) he was also uncontactable at first because he had an operation. After that he quickly wrote back and could help.

Maybe I take some enduro-stuff now. The Project is waiting for the axle since December.

https://de.50factory.com/pieces-50-...rriere-kymco-pulsar-125-von-2008-zu-2014.html


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

Are any of these bikes compatible with being set up as 27.5 'fat'? I have been pining for a used Farley 5, but struggling to find one in XL. After coming across this thread, i was excited by the prospect of building up my own fatbike for probably a few hundred more, but having it exactly as i wanted.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Gendy said:


> Are any of these bikes compatible with being set up as 27.5 'fat'? I have been pining for a used Farley 5, but struggling to find one in XL. After coming across this thread, i was excited by the prospect of building up my own fatbike for probably a few hundred more, but having it exactly as i wanted.


Had one of my Fatbike setup with 650B and rode real nice so Yes you can set it up with 27.5 but if you're going to set it up that way, may as well get yourself a Plus frame with Boost configuration.


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

Nash04 said:


> Had one of my Fatbike setup with 650B and rode real nice so Yes you can set it up with 27.5 but if you're going to set it up that way, may as well get yourself a Plus frame with Boost configuration.


So overall there is no issue running a 27.5*4.5 wheel/tire on a bike specified as a 26" fat? Would a 27.5*4.5 fit in a plus frame? I didn't think it would...


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Gendy said:


> So overall there is no issue running a 27.5*4.5 wheel/tire on a bike specified as a 26" fat? Would a 27.5*4.5 fit in a plus frame? I didn't think it would...


Doubt seriously that it would fit. I had 3" on 27.5 and fit with perhaps a .25" of play on each side. Should be OK on the 26" Fat but need to check frame's measurements


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## Marty van de Korput (Dec 16, 2017)

Hi, I'm trying to order 2 new derailleur hangers for my CS-197 from Peter at XMCarbonSpeed without success. Reading the topic about his operation above I hope is doing fine. Was anyone able to get in touch with him recently? I'm very happy with my CS-197 and have some events planned for later this year and the beginning of next year. Is there someone else who sells these hangers? Is there maybe a 100% compatible hanger available. Thanks in advance for your response.


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

Marty van de Korput said:


> Hi, I'm trying to order 2 new derailleur hangers for my CS-197 from Peter at XMCarbonSpeed without success. Reading the topic about his operation above I hope is doing fine. Was anyone able to get in touch with him recently? I'm very happy with my CS-197 and have some events planned for later this year and the beginning of next year. Is there someone else who sells these hangers? Is there maybe a 100% compatible hanger available. Thanks in advance for your response.


I have been in touch with him recently, but certainly not in the response time that I expected after reading this thread. I was ready to pull the trigger and order a frame/fork/wheels, but I backed away after the very slow and incomplete responses.


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## Marty van de Korput (Dec 16, 2017)

I'm also planning to build a full suspension bike and I'm considering a CS-001 frameset, since I'm very happy with my CS-197 frameset. But I'm trying to get in touch with them for over 4 weeks now, so I will reconsider my options. When I bought my CS-197 frameset in 2017, the response times were super fast. I was very happy with the quick responses to all my questions and also the quick delivery time. I don't know what happened?


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## k.b. (Dec 28, 2006)

Marty van de Korput said:


> I'm also planning to build a full suspension bike and I'm considering a CS-001 frameset, since I'm very happy with my CS-197 frameset. But I'm trying to get in touch with them for over 4 weeks now, so I will reconsider my options. When I bought my CS-197 frameset in 2017, the response times were super fast. I was very happy with the quick responses to all my questions and also the quick delivery time. I don't know what happened?


My guess is that the market dropped out. Everybody who wanted a carbon fatty bought one... just a few of us stragglers left. Kind of like GoPro, everybody who wanted one already owns one. Very few people need 2.


----------



## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

How much are these carbon frames going for currently? I take these are all 26x4 at least? But, I take it can run 27.5x3.2 if need be?


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## El_Topo (Jul 26, 2018)

Funoutside said:


> How much are these carbon frames going for currently? I take these are all 26x4 at least? But, I take it can run 27.5x3.2 if need be?


You can buy the CS-197 here directly from the manufacturer.

Given pretty much any fat bike frame (all?!) can run 26x4 and that 27.5x3.2 tires have a similar diameter (<750mm) nor are they wider, I would say you are safe regarding this tire size with pretty much all available frames, especially the CS-197 that allows to run 5" tires at 790mm diameter.
You should look at the bottom bracket height with those frames designed around tires with a bigger diameter when you run 27.5x3.2 (or 26x4) though.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Thank you.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

El_Topo said:


> You can buy the CS-197 here directly from the manufacturer.
> 
> Given pretty much any fat bike frame (all?!) can run 26x4 and that 27.5x3.2 tires have a similar diameter (<750mm) nor are they wider, I would say you are safe regarding this tire size with pretty much all available frames, especially the CS-197 that allows to run 5" tires at 790mm diameter.
> You should look at the bottom bracket height with those frames designed around tires with a bigger diameter when you run 27.5x3.2 (or 26x4) though.


Yeah, this is bit bizarre? Ordering direct is what's I thought we all did?

If I ever break it and it's not repairable, I'll likely order another. It's been really good, much better than my much more expensive LaMere.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

I have a Deng Fu FM191 size medium. I find the cockpit cramped, even with a long stem (120mm?), and rear tire clearance is tight at the chainstays (4.8 Lou on 105mm Nextie rims). I am considering switching to a CS-197.

Should I get a large? I am 5'10, with about a 32" inseam. 

Can anyone with the same tire & rim width combo as me comment on tire clearance? I read one post in this thread that said 2XL snowshoes on 100mm rims fit, and another that says they don't. The website says it will fit tires up to 5.05". I am running a smaller tire, but a wider rim.

TIA.


----------



## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Is there any of these models that can work with drops bars, kind of like the Framed Alaskan?


----------



## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

To follow up on my last post: I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a large (19.5") CS-197 frame. I also purchased a new handlebar, stem and seatpost. The order was shipped about 2 days after I made the purchase online, and arrived 2 days ago. I put the bike together yesterday afternoon and rode last night.

So the 4.8 Lou tire on 105 mm Nextie rim fit fine in the rear axle position. I tried moving it to the forward position and it was obvious it was either going to rub or not have enough clearance, so rear position it is. It looks to have about 10mm or more of clearance at the chainstays and seatstays and even more at the seat tube. Photos to follow.

I definitely feel more at home on the large frame. I don't know what I was thinking riding a medium frame with a crazy long stem. I have way more confidence descending and riding technical stuff. I notice less self-steer on the CS-197 than on the medium FM-191 I just came from. I am guessing the wider bars and less weight distributed to the front tire help explain that.

I like the internal cable routing solution on the CS-197. The holes for the cables have plastic inserts that you can temporarily pop out of the way to allow more room to fish the cable through. You can run a full cable housing for the rear derailleur. I like that. The FM-191 was set up for a bare shifter cable inside the frame and had dedicated channels so you had no choice of which side of the head tube the cables passed by.

What does everyone do with the metal plate inserts for the rear axle? Do you glue them in place? With epoxy? The rear thru-axle is holding them in place for now, but I would like a permanent solution. I don't want the plates falling off and getting lost in the snow if I have to remove the rear wheel for some reason.

A few small complaints:

1) The rear axle wasn't threaded deep enough to obtain a good clamp when the nut was screwed on all the way and the lever closed. I had to use a washer to obtain a good clamp. 

2) The bike shipped with 4 small bolts. I figured out that 2 of the bolts are used to affix the brake adapter to the frame. What are the other two bolts for? Spares?

3) The holes for the water bottle carriers were missing bolts.

4) I broke the seat post on the first ride. To be fair, I was taking the bike off a small jump and came down hard on the seat, so I wasn't surprised when it broke. I had the exact same design seatpost on my FM-191 and I also broke that. Fortunately, I have a Thomson seat post that fits.

Photos to follow....


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## Marty van de Korput (Dec 16, 2017)

Hi Ray,

Were you recently in contact with XM Carbon Speed? Who did you communicate with? I'm trying to get in touch with them for months now through all possible channels (different email addresses, their web form, WhatsApp, forum, etc.). I would like to order a new set of axles and two derailleur hangers. Apparently they are not interested to help out once you've bought a frame. I'm really disappointed. I was considering buying more frames from them, but with his level of service I will move on.

I have a CS-197 in size L as well since approximately two years. I did more than 10.000 km so far and the frame has been great. I rode different marathons, took the bike to the Alps, etc. I do recognize your first point though. I also use two washers to get the axle to close correctly.


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

puchcobra said:


> Hmm never noticed but he's a troll I only use links with info not spam, check out his history with the reputation thread?!?


I have a frame from peter's company it's a nice frame. I know many, including this site, consider him a troll but I have no idea what that evidence is based on.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ray.vermette said:


> To follow up on my last post: I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a large (19.5") CS-197 frame. I also purchased a new handlebar, stem and seatpost. The order was shipped about 2 days after I made the purchase online, and arrived 2 days ago. I put the bike together yesterday afternoon and rode last night.
> 
> So the 4.8 Lou tire on 105 mm Nextie rim fit fine in the rear axle position. I tried moving it to the forward position and it was obvious it was either going to rub or not have enough clearance, so rear position it is. It looks to have about 10mm or more of clearance at the chainstays and seatstays and even more at the seat tube. Photos to follow.
> 
> ...


If you glue the little metal plates, you won't be able to get them off to change the dropouts. I don't glue them, no point. They are held in place by the axle.

Yes, my axle was a bit long...although I think I discovered the axle is adjustable a few weeks back, haven't really tried to do anything about it, just used a washer like you and everything has been good for years.

The little cable outlet cover things are 'meh, they kind of don't say in place when the cable bends and have to occasionally be pushed back into place. They aren't terrible, but not as great as they seem on the surface IMO.

Routing isn't really intended for a dropper, but I used the extra hole and put a cable up through the BB for a dropper. This is kind of a major PITA, because it's not intended, but it's possible. Otherwise, routing is fine, it's easiest to drop the fork and take the BB out and route housing backwards up towards the head tube. It's actually really easy like this.

The bike has been solid though. Able to fit J5 tires in the rear dropout position, which is the biggest I care to use at this point. Great bike.


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## LurkerJono (May 15, 2016)

Jayem said:


> If you glue the little metal plates, you won't be able to get them off to change the dropouts. I don't glue them, no point. They are held in place by the axle.


If you don't want the plates dropping off when removing the rear wheel and don't want to glue them you could try this ->


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Could be any reason at all, doesnt even have to be justified. After all its the internet. People are so sensative now.



KenPsz said:


> I have a frame from peter's company it's a nice frame. I know many, including this site, consider him a troll but I have no idea what that evidence is based on.


----------



## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Marty van de Korput said:


> Hi Ray,
> 
> Were you recently in contact with XM Carbon Speed? Who did you communicate with?


I just purchased via the website link Jayem provided above. No communication, other than an automated email confirmation of the order and another email when the items shipped.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Jayem said:


> If you glue the little metal plates, you won't be able to get them off to change the dropouts. I don't glue them, no point. They are held in place by the axle.


I have a set of 4" tires on 65mm rims which I could probably use in the forward axle position, but I have so much fun on the larger wheels, I can't see myself ever using the forward axle position. Still, I might not be able to replace the derailleur hanger if I glue the plate in place, so I'll look into LurkerJono's solution.



Jayem said:


> The little cable outlet cover things are 'meh, they kind of don't say in place when the cable bends and have to occasionally be pushed back into place. They aren't terrible, but not as great as they seem on the surface IMO.


I've been lucky. Mine have stayed put so far; knock on wood.



Jayem said:


> Otherwise, routing is fine, it's easiest to drop the fork and take the BB out and route housing backwards up towards the head tube. It's actually really easy like this.


I routed my cables the same way -- I fished it through the chainstays and back up to the headtube first, then I installed the bottom bracket and fork.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

I promised some photos, so here are some photos. The first is the complete bike. I just got back from a 3 hour ride, so please excuse the mud:







Complete build you see here is about 26.5 pounds.

Next, some photos of various clearances. Please excuse the potato quality. They are crops from GoPro photos. It's hard to tell from the blurry and poorly lit photos, but I think the clearances are generally good enough, except for the drive-side chainstay, where the home made inner-tube chainstay guard is close to the tire. There is rarely a bit of light rubber-on-rubber contact there when I really crank/lean on the bike, which is ok with me. As long as the frame is not getting rubbed.











































Lastly, the seatpost which I broke on the maiden voyage over a week ago. I came down hard on the seat after doing a small jump, so it did not surprise me that it broke. It didn't shear completely in half -- I broke it in half on the trail so I could insert the top part of the post back into the seat tube and finish the ride.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Here is the bike in action this afternoon:





























It has been an awesome trail bike so far. I am doing some rolls that I never would have thought possible on a bike with no suspension. With the large contact patch at about 4 psi, I can grab a lot of front brake and slowly crawl my way down these rock faces. It's been fun.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Hi all

Yesterday I was having some fun with the snow here in Catalonia.
But I had a minor problem, my derrailleur hanger is folded/twisted. See last picture below... Where can I find a replacement? My frame is from Peter, the frame is CS N019
Could anyone give me the website from peter, I don't remember....









Enviat mitjançant dispositiu mòbil


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## Marty van de Korput (Dec 16, 2017)

Hi, the website is Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd, but as mentioned in my post, I'm trying to get some spare derailleurhangers from them for months now, without success. I don't even get replies on my request. In the meantime I learned that if you want to buy a new frame, the response times are very good ... pffff ... I have a CS-197 frameset myself and looked for a compatible alternative, but I didn't find one yet.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Dear all,

just to inform for those who have the frame from Carbon speed. the number CS-N019. I broke the rear hanger and Peter does not have replacement, but he told me that carbonal and xmiplay are still selling this frame.
I found the rear derrailleur hanger here:

Hanger 03 link: https://www.carbonal.com.cn/carbon-bike-parts/accessories/bicycle-rear-derailleur-hanger-03.html

The frame is Rover 26: https://www.carbonal.com.cn/carbon-fatbike/framesets/carbon-26er-fatbike-frameset-rover-26.html


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

For CS-197 frame owners, will the Race Face Next R cranks for 177mm fit on this frame? On my FM190, I can easily use 177mm cranks on the 197mm frame. That was the key reason I originally bought the FM190.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

neons97 said:


> For CS-197 frame owners, will the Race Face Next R cranks for 177mm fit on this frame? On my FM190, I can easily use 177mm cranks on the 197mm frame. That was the key reason I originally bought the FM190.


I have a backup set of 177-rear-end Turbines (non-cinch spindle) that I use on my CS-197 very occasionally, like the last time I had to warranty the Next cranks. I wouldn't recommend the Turbines, I have to be "just right" with my spacers and then I only have a couple mm of distance. I put some tape on the stays to see if I cas ever contacting, and I wasn't, but it was very very tight. More than a few of us have said that if RF split the difference between the narrow and wide spindles, it would be perfect for running 1x on a 197 bike.

I know that doesn't help a lot, hopefully someone has fitted something like that.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Jayem said:


> I have a backup set of 177-rear-end Turbines (non-cinch spindle) that I use on my CS-197 very occasionally, like the last time I had to warranty the Next cranks. I wouldn't recommend the Turbines, I have to be "just right" with my spacers and then I only have a couple mm of distance. I put some tape on the stays to see if I cas ever contacting, and I wasn't, but it was very very tight. More than a few of us have said that if RF split the difference between the narrow and wide spindles, it would be perfect for running 1x on a 197 bike.
> 
> I know that doesn't help a lot, hopefully someone has fitted something like that.


Same here. I have Turbine Cinch with the spindle for 177 and it required me to adjust the spacers a couple of times before I got it just right. I'm guessing 3mm or so of room on each side. Yes that's pretty tight, but I don't think the pedals ever hit the stays, and I don't recall my feet hitting them either.

Sadly, my drive-side seat stay developed a crack from what almost surely was an impact. It's pretty clean and isolated to the one spot, so I'm planning to order a carbon fiber repair kit and salvage it as a backup bike (replaced it with a Fatback Skookum!).

Fred


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

RagerXS said:


> Which Mastodon are you running? I'm curious about the impact to the geometry with so many variations available.
> 
> Fred


Are people running a 100 or 120mm travel Mastodon on the CS-197?

Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

akgrimace said:


> Are people running a 100 or 120mm travel Mastodon on the CS-197?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


I ran a 120 on mine and it seemed perfect. I was happy because it was a roll of the dice but it worked out. It's a Mastodon Pro 120 STD. They also make an EXT version, and I believe a Pro 100 EXT would have identical geometry to the Pro 120 STD. It's worth confirming - all of this info was easily available online when I was shopping.

Fred


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

RagerXS said:


> I ran a 120 on mine and it seemed perfect. I was happy because it was a roll of the dice but it worked out. It's a Mastodon Pro 120 STD. They also make an EXT version, and I believe a Pro 100 EXT would have identical geometry to the Pro 120 STD. It's worth confirming - all of this info was easily available online when I was shopping.
> 
> Fred


Thanks. I needed the extended, so I'm going to go with the 100. The A-C on the frame is only 478 on the chart, and the ext 100 already has a A-C of 531. Glad to hear that 531 works.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

One of my friends has some of this frames for sale


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## dsmitty166 (Jun 10, 2019)

Carbon Speed Bikes said:


> One of my friends has some of this frames for sale


Still available?


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## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

dsmitty166 said:


> Still available?


Yes


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## K_O (Mar 24, 2021)

I've had my CS197 from Peter at Carbon Speed for a few years now and have nothing but good things to say about it. I was very impressed with the price point, quality, and customer service he provided. So much so, that going into this winter we worked with Peter to get my wife setup with a custom paint CS197. The build turned out amazing. Size reference, I am 6' and chose a large, my wife is 5'4" and she is on a small.

I can share a list components from my builds if that would help anyone.

Let me know if I can help answer any questions.


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## Fortmcstrong (Dec 20, 2020)

K_O said:


> I've had my CS197 from Peter at Carbon Speed for a few years now and have nothing but good things to say about it. I was very impressed with the price point, quality, and customer service he provided. So much so, that going into this winter we worked with Peter to get my wife setup with a custom paint CS197. The build turned out amazing. Size reference, I am 6' and chose a large, my wife is 5'4" and she is on a small.
> 
> I can share a list components from my builds if that would help anyone.
> 
> ...


Nice build ! Can you list your parts and a rough estimate of how much u spent ? Did you used carbon rims ? I'm thinking of doing the same for my wife as we can't find anything here in Canada for small fat bike. Congrats on this beautiful bike


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## K_O (Mar 24, 2021)

Fortmcstrong said:


> Nice build ! Can you list your parts and a rough estimate of how much u spent ? Did you used carbon rims ? I'm thinking of doing the same for my wife as we can't find anything here in Canada for small fat bike. Congrats on this beautiful bike


I did use carbon rims and purchased those through Peter when I got the frame and fork. They are the same that I have on my bike and mine have held up well.

Below is a breakdown of what I put into my wife's build:


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## Fortmcstrong (Dec 20, 2020)

That’s awesome. Much appreciated


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Just bought a SN01 frame and now am finding out a bunch a info that is making it less appealing, so looking for some help.

1. I have a Bud/Lou combo on my current bike and was hoping to swap them over because they are in fantastic shape and I like how they ride. 
Will these fit the following scenarios:
80mm rims
Bluto
Mastodon 100 or 120 standard or do I need extended?

2. I just read that 12 speed is a no go on this frame? Is that true?

3. I have seen a few people do internal routing for a dropper, could someone please tell me how they went about that so that I use a few cuss words as possible

Thanks and I am sure I will come across a few more frustrating questions as this build takes place


----------



## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

I put a dropper on mine. I used the port for the front derailleur to get it down the downtube to the bottom bracket. I pulled my crank so I could fish it back up the seat tube. It was tricky but I eventually got it.








Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Thanks, that is what I figured for the dropper.

Do you have a Carbon Speed or Ican though?


----------



## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Can anyone please confirm or deny that 12 speed will work on the SN01 frame?
Trying to piece together parts and it boils down to 11 or 12 speed.

Thank you


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

yourrealdad said:


> Can anyone please confirm or deny that 12 speed will work on the SN01 frame?
> Trying to piece together parts and it boils down to 11 or 12 speed.
> 
> Thank you


This is bizarre. There should be no problem, if it can run 11, it can run 12.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Thats what I would think, but a previous poster said he was told otherwise although some might have been lost in translation.

Just didn't know if there would be chain line or chain stay issues


----------



## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Just got a reply back from Ican and they stated that number of speeds does not depend on frame, so as we assumed it sound like 12 speed is a go!


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

l see your only issue with 1x12 being the size of the Bud & Lous, but l really wouldnt know.

I have 1x11 on my SN01, with Maxxis DHF and DHR.

sorry not really helpful......


----------



## hyt (Jul 12, 2020)

Wondering if a Chinese carbon fatty expert among you can help me identify the OEM for what appears to be an open mold frame. These four bikes (probably more out there, but you get the point) all appear to be the same underneath the paint:

Vpace CFat
KHS 4 Season 5000
Lamere Killer Whale
Blackjack Fate

Can anyone ID the frameset source? 2016-2017ish. TIA.


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

Welp, pulled the plug.
SN04 full suspension frame size 20
I am 5'9" but after much looking at geometry numbers and at my current bikes I think size 20 makes more sense than size 18. My other bikes now are a bit on the smaller side and I think for this one I would like it to be a bit larger plus that way my son will be able to ride it.

Will be my first bike project.


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

Just ordered SN01 and Carbon rims. Nervous about finding parts these days....but here we go. Going SRAM GX 12. Main uncertainty is crank and offset.


----------



## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Race Face Turbine is your best bet. I wasn’t really finding anything in the light weight category that was cheap. If you have the dough then you can probably come across a RF Next.


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

Got email from ican - takes 25 days for the frame to be painted.


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

I'm going flat black so hoping it won't be that long


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

cwoodffr said:


> I'm going flat black so hoping it won't be that long


Are you going to paint it yourself?


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

No I like the murdered out black look.


----------



## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

If by flat black you mean the raw carbon then it will take a couple weeks to ship over to the US (at least a month ago or so it was the case)

If you are actually getting it painted then your time frame sounds like 25 days plus two or so weeks.


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

yourrealdad said:


> If by flat black you mean the raw carbon then it will take a couple weeks to ship over to the US (at least a month ago or so it was the case)
> 
> If you are actually getting it painted then your time frame sounds like 25 days plus two or so weeks.


I assume no issue using it in the raw state?


----------



## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

No, it has clear coat over it. It will be a matt black look. I typically get my Chinese carbon stuff in UD matt as it is typically the lightest version. Never had an issue.


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

yourrealdad said:


> No, it has clear coat over it. It will be a matt black look. I typically get my Chinese carbon stuff in UD matt as it is typically the lightest version. Never had an issue.


Paint makes a difference weight wise?


----------



## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Yes, depending on the type and quality of paint/painter and size of frame you can be looking at up to a couple hundred grams. Not really an issue unless you are weight weenieing your bike.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

yourrealdad said:


> No, it has clear coat over it. It will be a matt black look. I typically get my Chinese carbon stuff in UD matt as it is typically the lightest version. Never had an issue.


I got clear-coat for the frame. I had them put a matte carbon-speed logo sticker on, but clear-coat is over everything. I like the way the natural carbon looks in the sun.


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## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

Mine is shipping this week


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

Anyone know what the clear tube length is for seat post depth (for dropper) on a 20" SN01? Pictures look like that the seat stay has a bit of a kink in it about 2/3 down.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

cwoodffr said:


> Anyone know what the clear tube length is for seat post depth (for dropper) on a 20" SN01? Pictures look like that the seat stay has a bit of a kink in it about 2/3 down.


l have a Crank Bros Highline 170mm in my 20" SN01, if that helps.....


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

cmg said:


> l have a Crank Bros Highline 170mm in my 20" SN01, if that helps.....


version 3 or 7? actually nvm, within 2mm of insertion length 285 vs 287


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

cwoodffr said:


> version 3 or 7? actually nvm, within 2mm of insertion length 285 vs 287


you lost me........


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

this may help...


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

cmg said:


> this may help...


it does, how tall are you? Any idea how much further that lower unit can go in before it bottoms out?


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

oh and lm 188cm if that helps, and as you see Highline comes 80mm out from seat tube


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

l just went to try it, its stuck tight :-(, cant move it
Havent got time tonight to stuff around with it sorry, maybe on the weekend...


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

no problem. You have done enough!


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

ICAN emailed me that they actually have a turquoise frame in stock so they will be sending it out soon. Nice.
Hope to cannibalize as many parts as possible from my Co-op DRT 4.1.


----------



## Everhard (Mar 2, 2010)

Well I'm hoping to join in the fatbike world by building one this winter. (I'll be building the wheels as well) I'm looking at the cs197 19" size looks about right for me, while I understand it'll take a 29, how wide a tire will it take with that rim?
Actually the better question would be what are the maximum size tires per wheel size?
I guess I'll end up building a couple sets of wheels from what I've read. One for winter (southern Ontario) riding (snow) and one for trail riding the rest of the year. I'm going to have plenty more questions I guess but I'll start there! 

Thanks,
E.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

So with the 2 CS positions of the CS-197, you really don't run into any fatbike-tire issues. J5 on 90mm rims fits fine. Cake-eater 4.5s 27.5 (the largest 27.5 tires) on 75mm rims fits fine. Supposedly snowshoe 2XL fits and I have no reason to doubt. You can damn near get 27.5 D5s in there with the shorter CS setting...maybe you can with wider (than 75mm) rims. 26" D5s on any rim work great in the shorter chainstay position. Bike is super fun like that too. Running some 27.5x3.5 panaracers right now for this crappy shoulder season. I do like this 27.5x3.5 Panaracer tire, good summer/all-around tire. You could go to 29er wheels, I have in the past, but you won't get a lot out of it IMO, unless you are building it to be a hardtail with a suspension fork.


----------



## Everhard (Mar 2, 2010)

Thanks for the reply Jayem!
So ya, I was planning on adding a suspension fork. I've been riding forever on a 1993 Alpinestar (I bought it in 1995) that I completely rebuilt from the ground up maybe 11 years ago, it's full rigid but it's a 20lb bike so it does okay. This fall I ended up borrowing a Trek superfly 9 full suspension (29er) that I really enjoyed - really liked the 29's. 
I'm hoping to ride a friend's fatbike to get a feel for it, figure out what I'll want. But at the moment I'm digging the idea of going 29er if I can. 

E.


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

durask said:


> ICAN emailed me that they actually have a turquoise frame in stock so they will be sending it out soon. Nice.
> Hope to cannibalize as many parts as possible from my Co-op DRT 4.1.


Look forward to seeing what you do!


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

well, to start
Rockshox Bluto uses 150 mm hub and I have a front wheel with a 135 mm hub
hmm


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

durask said:


> well, to start
> Rockshox Bluto uses 150 mm hub and I have a front wheel with a 135 mm hub
> hmm


you can order the 150 from ICAN, but lm guessing its too late now...


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

cmg said:


> you can order the 150 from ICAN, but lm guessing its too late now...


I spent the evening looking at the parts and brought everything to my LBS today. 

They also happened to have an old 150 mm 26 inch fat bike wheel lying around which is still in decent shape.


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

durask said:


> I spent the evening looking at the parts and brought everything to my LBS today.
> 
> They also happened to have an old 150 mm 26 inch fat bike wheel lying around which is still in decent shape.


You have to enjoy the quest of researching and finding all the parts. I just rebought the right dropper and listed for sale the new in box wrong one I bought....the challenge is not for everyone


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

durask said:


> well, to start
> Rockshox Bluto uses 150 mm hub and I have a front wheel with a 135 mm hub
> hmm


So yes, this could work, bout you need 15mm of spacers, 7.5 and 7.5, or probably more realistically something like 5mm and 10mm, and dish you wheel over 2.5mm (which is nothing). If you do this, you just need a standard 5mm boost brake-spacer ring. If you do 7.5/7.5, then you need 7.5mm of spacer. There's always a little bit of adjustment in your brake, so you get a few mm on either side usualy. You can order spacers in random sizes off of ebay/amazon often and I've done it in the past. They also make kits for non-boost to boost, so you would theoretically need two front 100 to 110 boost kits, run one spacer on one side, two on the other, run the brake spacer. That should get it to where it needs to be. The only thing I'd do personally different here is find a 15x10mm spacer instead of having to run two on one side, but either should work. And before tons of people start saying how you can't do this or it'll never work, spacers work fine, I'm using them on a bunch of wheelsets right now...for the same reason, I don't want to throw away a perfectly good wheelset for some stupid increase in axle size by 6 or 10mm. The spacers work fine.


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

Yeah but how do you deal with disk brakes if you put in spacers?


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

durask said:


> Yeah but how do you deal with disk brakes if you put in spacers?


there is also a spacer for that.....

it will work with spacers, but lm not a fan
l would rather do it properly.......but l dont know your finances (or wife), so it comes down to you


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

cmg said:


> there is also a spacer for that.....
> 
> it will work with spacers, but lm not a fan
> l would rather do it properly.......but l dont know your finances (or wife), so it comes down to you


As I said, LBS happened to find an old fat bike wheel which fit perfectly so that took care of the problem.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

sweet


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## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

OK looks like I cannot use my old crankset. Now I am cursing myself because I could have ordered the frame with the crankset for $100 more.
Now have to figure out what crankset to order, ICAN has cranksets and they are $168 (plus whatever shipping will be) however not sure those are the ones I need. Emailed them hopefully they will help me out.


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

durask said:


> OK looks like I cannot use my old crankset. Now I am cursing myself because I could have ordered the frame with the crankset for $100 more.
> Now have to figure out what crankset to order, ICAN has cranksets and they are $168 (plus whatever shipping will be) however not sure those are the ones I need. Emailed them hopefully they will help me out.


Race face ride 24mm with 190 spindle is economical. Not a fully removable spindle but will fit and has cinch. I know of one in stock in Canada if you can't find one.


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## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

Thanks!
Ican replied so I ordered their crankset from them. Of course ordering it separately is more expensive.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

durask said:


> OK looks like I cannot use my old crankset. Now I am cursing myself because I could have ordered the frame with the crankset for $100 more.
> Now have to figure out what crankset to order, ICAN has cranksets and they are $168 (plus whatever shipping will be) however not sure those are the ones I need. Emailed them hopefully they will help me out.


What was your old crankset?


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

Jayem said:


> What was your old crankset?











Co-op Cycles DRT 4.1 Review - The Best Value Fat Bike for $1,499


Fat tire bikes are characterized by their oversized tire size, designed to make cycling possible on any terrain. Over the past few years, they have gained popularity amongst cyclists looking to venture into snowy or sandy environments. In wet weather, fat bikes will easily roll through thick mud...




bikexchange.com





Looks like it uses *SRAM X1* 1000 Eagle DUB


----------



## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

durask said:


> Co-op Cycles DRT 4.1 Review - The Best Value Fat Bike for $1,499
> 
> 
> Fat tire bikes are characterized by their oversized tire size, designed to make cycling possible on any terrain. Over the past few years, they have gained popularity amongst cyclists looking to venture into snowy or sandy environments. In wet weather, fat bikes will easily roll through thick mud...
> ...


That bike looks interesting and how they put it together for cheap with those components is impressive. To bad it is unavailable.


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

KenPsz said:


> That bike looks interesting and how they put it together for cheap with those components is impressive. To bad it is unavailable.


Yeah it is a good bike a bit heavy but very good for the price. Looks like REI discontinued it after 1 year.


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## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

My Ican carbon rims just arrived. VERY nice units!


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## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

OK next problem with ICAN SN04 frame
LBS does not have the rear axle.
They do have something on their website








Fat Bike Rear Thru Axle


Type :Fatbike Thru AxleModel: FB SkewerMaterial: AlloyColor: BlackSize: Rear 12x190/197mm Measurement Method: 12x190/197mm: 190/197mm length is the distance of the front spacing(inside), not the overall length of the axle.




icanwheels.com





Wondering if I can order something from Amazon or similar for faster delivery.

LBS gave me dimensions M12 x 1.75 x 197 x 235 - to be honest not sure what this means.

NM they found an axle so assembling it now


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## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

OK got it back.

Issues:
My old 26 x 4.8 tires (Innova 26 x 4.8) do not fit in the rear, there is rubbing against the linkage. Need to get 4.6 or 4.5. 

The only thing that's available now is Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 26 x 4.4 which I ordered on Ebay from the UK. 

However, the main issue is that I think I screwed up and got a frame that is too large for me. I am 5'9" and got a large/20 frame and the problem is that with the dropper post in the lowest position the bike is still too high for me. I found the thinnest seat I could and with it at least my toes touch the ground, but still a bit too high for me.


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

Don't buy Chinese ANYTHING. Don't you watch the news?


----------



## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

Wheelspeed said:


> Don't buy Chinese ANYTHING. Don't you watch the news?


So what bikes let alone bike parts are you going to buy?


----------



## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

KenPsz said:


> So what bikes let alone bike parts are you going to buy?


You can buy plenty of USA and Canada made bike stuff. (Not shifters though)

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

Wheelspeed said:


> Don't buy Chinese ANYTHING. Don't you watch the news?


why not?


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## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

Build coming along: Fat Bike Build

Quite pleased with the finish and details on the frame.


----------



## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

Ok finally finished with friendly but expensive help from LBS.










So, from my old DRT 4.1 ended up keeping:

Handlebar with shifters
Cassette
Derailleur
Brakes with levers
Rear wheel
One tire

In addition to the frame which I got with the rear shock and Bluto fork needed:
new headset
crankset
dropper post
front wheel 
rear tire since 26x4.8 tire from the original bike was rubbing the new frame, changed to 45NRTH Dunderbeist which is 26 x 4.6 and fits perfectly.

So, thinking that at some point may make sense to reassemble the old DRT bike and sell it.

Will do some trail riding tomorrow, so far rode it around the house, love how it handles!


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## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

Maidened tonight. LOVE it
I'm hooked! The grip over summer is unbelievable, the responsively even with fat tires of a full rigid frame over a full squish 29er is something else! Build this over the past month and really pleased! Put 12km on it for its maiden and the only think I need to do is tighten the seat post a bit and maybe play with the chain line some.
Ican carbon frame, Ican rims, Eagle Gx (donated from my RM), Guide R brakes, Brand-x dropper and 4.2" Wrathlordes Studded. Weighs 28.75lb.


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## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

cwoodffr said:


> Maidened tonight. LOVE it
> I'm hooked! The grip over summer is unbelievable, the responsively even with fat tires of a full rigid frame over a full squish 29er is something else! Build this over the past month and really pleased! Put 12km on it for its maiden and the only think I need to do is tighten the seat post a bit and maybe play with the chain line some.
> Ican carbon frame, Ican rims, Eagle Gx (donated from my RM), Guide R brakes, Brand-x dropper and 4.2" Wrathlordes Studded. Weighs 28.75lb.
> View attachment 1960489


Which Ican frame is it and does it have openings for internal seat post routing?


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

durask said:


> Which Ican frame is it and does it have openings for internal seat post routing?


SN01. Yes it does. That's an internal dropper


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

durask said:


> Which Ican frame is it and does it have openings for internal seat post routing?


It actually doesnt (my SN01 is a 2015 model), but you use the FD cable openlng and go down the bottom tube to the BB, then up to the Dropper. If you plan on running an FD, then you get no internal Dropper.

When l did the cable routing for mine.......l found an absolute sh!tload of swearing helped.


Maybe the newer frames have it better sorted.........


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

cmg said:


> It actually doesnt (my SN01 is a 2015 model), but you use the FD cable openlng and go down the bottom tube to the BB, then up to the Dropper. If you plan on running an FD, then you get no internal Dropper.
> 
> When l did the cable routing for mine.......l found an absolute sh!tload of swearing helped.
> 
> ...


A little Turettes goes a long way in getting things done!


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

cmg said:


> It actually doesnt (my SN01 is a 2015 model), but you use the FD cable openlng and go down the bottom tube to the BB, then up to the Dropper. If you plan on running an FD, then you get no internal Dropper.
> 
> When l did the cable routing for mine.......l found an absolute sh!tload of swearing helped.
> 
> ...


Sorry, my bad, it has ports suitable for internal routing of a dropper. And yes, it was tricky but not a huge deal to get done!


----------



## WhiteFatSnow (Dec 8, 2021)

Can someone help me understand how I can run 200mm front/180mm rear rotors on my CS197?

Here's a picture of an adapter already installed, I assume it is a IS-PM 160mm adapter?










And a photo of a fork I got separately. This must be a 160mm PM socket:









If I'm understanding how adapters work correctly, I need:

PM-PM +40mm adapter for the front brake
IS-PM 180mm adapter for the rear brake
Am I right?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

WhiteFatSnow said:


> Can someone help me understand how I can run 200mm front/180mm rear rotors on my CS197?
> 
> Here's a picture of an adapter already installed, I assume it is a IS-PM 160mm adapter?
> 
> ...


The rear brake arrangement is 160mm, post mount. The "adapter" on the bike is for running it in either dropout position. To run a larger rotor, you need a +20mm adapter. They may call these "180mm" adapters, sometimes they try to label them as front or rear (it's really the same thing). Hopefully you won't run into a clearance situation. I can't remember if I've tried this or not, but even if it works, it may not work with all calipers.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

CS-197 gets a rear rack. This IMO is the only real let-down for the frame, it needs rack mounts! But still, for the price and what I've put it through, it's been solid. Axiom Fatliner rack, Axiom seatpost clincher adapter. The rack arm-mounts on the underside just barely rubbed on the studs on my tires, but a little riding and it has chewed off enough material that it's not rubbing. These are the biggest 27.5 tires you can get, so if this works, anything less will. Fatliner is set up for QR mounts...but the plate/mounts are thin and I drilled 12mm holes about an inch back for the 12mm axle. Seems to work well.


----------



## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

Can you show some up close photos of the attachment to the axle?

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----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

akgrimace said:


> Can you show some up close photos of the attachment to the axle?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


Here


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

Nice.

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## WhiteFatSnow (Dec 8, 2021)

Jayem said:


> The rear brake arrangement is 160mm, post mount. The "adapter" on the bike is for running it in either dropout position. To run a larger rotor, you need a +20mm adapter. They may call these "180mm" adapters, sometimes they try to label them as front or rear (it's really the same thing). Hopefully you won't run into a clearance situation. I can't remember if I've tried this or not, but even if it works, it may not work with all calipers.


Thank you, I'll report later how things turned out.


----------



## down0050 (Aug 4, 2014)

Hey all, I have a CS197 that I bought used about a year ago and it's a super sweet frame. Only issue I'm running into is availability for the derailleur hanger, I can't find/convince anyone to sell one (or three) to me. Anybody have any ideas? Have contacted Seraph/Tantan, Carbonspeed, and anyone else I noticed selling CS197s with no luck.


----------



## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

down0050 said:


> Hey all, I have a CS197 that I bought used about a year ago and it's a super sweet frame. Only issue I'm running into is availability for the derailleur hanger, I can't find/convince anyone to sell one (or three) to me. Anybody have any ideas? Have contacted Seraph/Tantan, Carbonspeed, and anyone else I noticed selling CS197s with no luck.
> 
> View attachment 1961047


Hey there,

Due to coronavirus, shipping fee has increased a lot, it is not cost-effective to order and ship just one hanger. Fortunately I have a customer from Canada who just ordered a CS-197 frame and we haven't sent the package to him yet, if possible would you be able to contact him that I send your hanger with his frame together and ask him to send it to you within Canada when he gets the parcel? He is from Ontario BTW.


----------



## down0050 (Aug 4, 2014)

Carbon Speed Bikes said:


> Hey there,
> 
> Due to coronavirus, shipping fee has increased a lot, it is not cost-effective to order and ship just one hanger. Fortunately I have a customer from Canada who just ordered a CS-197 frame and we haven't sent the package to him yet, if possible would you be able to contact him that I send your hanger with his frame together and ask him to send it to you within Canada when he gets the parcel? He is from Ontario BTW.


That's perfect! Will send DM to confirm. Thanks,


----------



## Pipeliner (Oct 30, 2018)

I've got a new CS197 waiting for me in the garage, along with a bunch of parts. I normally would've had the thing built by now but the damned COVID has laid me low for a while.

That is a Chinese import that am very unhappy with. Can I return it anywhere?


----------



## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

What makes you unhappy with it?



Pipeliner said:


> I've got a new CS197 waiting for me in the garage, along with a bunch of parts. I normally would've had the thing built by now but the damned COVID has laid me low for a while.
> 
> That is a Chinese import that am very unhappy with. Can I return it anywhere?


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

seat_boy said:


> What makes you unhappy with it?


pretty sure he meant Covid is the import hes unhappy with


----------



## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Oh, I see that now. Completely missed it the first time!



cmg said:


> pretty sure he meant Covid is the import hes unhappy with


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

seat_boy said:


> Oh, I see that now. Completely missed it the first time!


me too!


----------



## Pipeliner (Oct 30, 2018)

Yeah, the jury is still out on the cs197. The COVID? Sucks real bad.


----------



## Langlor (12 mo ago)

Hi,
About the CS-197, the seat tube does not seem totally straight. I am looking for one but I am concerned this may restrict my build to a short dropper. Has someone measured the maximum insertion depth of the seat-tube. I am looking for a medium frame. Also if there are suggestion for other potential frames, your suggestions will be welcome. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dunno, running a 170 dropper in a large frame.


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

The "J" column is from a medium CS-197 when I was sizing a dropper post. I wasn't able to use a PNW like I wanted to, but I believe one up would work.









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## Pipeliner (Oct 30, 2018)

WhiteFatSnow said:


> Can someone help me understand how I can run 200mm front/180mm rear rotors on my CS197?
> 
> Here's a picture of an adapter already installed, I assume it is a IS-PM 160mm adapter?
> 
> ...


You’ve probably figured it out by now but you just turn that rear mount around for 180mm rotor. I put 180s on mine. I don’t have the Carbonspeed fork but adaptors are available everywhere. Look on Amazon…


----------



## Langlor (12 mo ago)

akgrimace said:


> The "J" column is from a medium CS-197 when I was sizing a dropper post. I wasn't able to use a PNW like I wanted to, but I believe one up would work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot @Jayem and @akgrimace . So if I understand it well, the maximum insertion for the medium frame is 200mm which is not too bad but probably too tight for a 150mm dropper fully inserted .


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Langlor said:


> Thanks a lot @Jayem and @akgrimace . So if I understand it well, the maximum insertion for the medium frame is 200mm which is not too bad but probably too tight for a 150mm dropper fully inserted .


Bikeyoke makes a pretty short 160 post and it's the best in the business IME. Like I said, I'm running 170 with no problem in the large frame, looking down the ST the other day to re-run my internal cable, it looks like the water-bottle bosses are the limiting factor. I found an easier way to route my cable rather than putting it in through the headtube ports and with the cranks/BB removed using my finger to try and push the cable/housing up. Just bend the housing a little bit, insert it down through the seat-tube, you can see the other cables down in there if you look a little forward, fish the housing down into that area, with the slight bend you should be able to get it to move forward, and then just feed it forward, I popped the cover near the headtube and then fished it out with an auto panel pick. Was a lot easier than doing it the other way and having to remove the crank/BB and push my finger in that little hole in the BB to feed it around the BB shell.


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

Anyone able to tell me how to get a powerway freehub body off? Mine is making brutal gravel noises on coasting after 250km. Want to take it apart and see if it just needs grease but can't see how to get it off.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

cwoodffr said:


> Anyone able to tell me how to get a powerway freehub body off? Mine is making brutal gravel noises on coasting after 250km. Want to take it apart and see if it just needs grease but can't see how to get it off.


If l remember correctly, you undo the end caps, and tube (that the axle goes through) will remain on one side, pull it out, and you can remve the freehub. I believe you need thin Spanners (wrench if youre American), lm sure l used 2 pairs of Multigrips.

It has been more than 2 yrs since lve done it though.


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

cmg said:


> If l remember correctly, you undo the end caps, and tube (that the axle goes through) will remain on one side, pull it out, and you can remve the freehub. I believe you need thin Spanners (wrench if youre American), lm sure l used 2 pairs of Multigrips.
> 
> It has been more than 2 yrs since lve done it though.


Yes there are flats on the axle tube ends, one end threaded off....did you have to tap it from the other side? Did you have issues with yours? I am hoping it isn't bearing and just pawls hanging up somehow.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

yes l had issues, which is why l went DTSwiss in the end

l think l did take a rubber hammer to it though, did you get the correct end off?


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

cmg said:


> yes l had issues, which is why l went DTSwiss in the end
> 
> l think l did take a rubber hammer to it though, did you get the correct end off?


what were your issues? The cap on the non drive side threaded off when opposed by the one on the drive side being held on the flats. This is the noise it is making. New video by Chuck Tatham


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

my issues were l rebuilt if 3 times in 3 yrs, so l got rid of them, disassembly issues are long from my memory, but the Pawls and bearings were always rooted, l kept buyong new freehubs from ICAN


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## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

cmg said:


> my issues were l rebuilt if 3 times in 3 yrs, so l got rid of them, disassembly issues are long from my memory, but the Pawls and bearings were always rooted, l kept buyong new freehubs from ICAN


were you able to replace bearings or did you have to do the freehub body? I should have spent the extra and gotten the DT.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

cwoodffr said:


> were you able to replace bearings or did you have to do the freehub body? I should have spent the extra and gotten the DT.


I always got the whole body, because it was always chewed up, cheap aluminium simple as that

Look I tried to rescue the first Freehub, filing the body, cleaning the pawls and filing them, changing the bearings, blah blah blah. No matter how much Lipstick you put on a pig its still a pig, polish a turd as much as you want and its still a turd.

I encourage you to try it once, repair the Freehub, doesnt cost much, and see how long it lasts.

My DT Swiss BR2250 Wheelset are now 3 yrs old (I think), ridden in mud, sand, salt, snow and used as a wheelie machine. I have never even had the freehub off, it just works - having said that I should spend the 15 mins to give it the once over.


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

cmg said:


> I always got the whole body, because it was always chewed up, cheap aluminium simple as that
> 
> Look I tried to rescue the first Freehub, filing the body, cleaning the pawls and filing them, changing the bearings, blah blah blah. No matter how much Lipstick you put on a pig its still a pig, polish a turd as much as you want and its still a turd.
> 
> ...


I first have to get the damn thing off! Did you lace the DT hubs yourself?


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

cwoodffr said:


> I first have to get the damn thing off! Did you lace the DT hubs yourself?


no, purchased the Wheelset, at that time getting the DT Swiss Hubs was possible and getting them laced to the ICAN rims was also possible.........but the DT Swiss Wheelset was only 200 Francs more and delivered in 2 days, nuff said.

I recommend you look around though, there are more options than DT Swiss out there, although my three bikes are all on DT Swiss.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

cwoodffr said:


> I first have to get the damn thing off! Did you lace the DT hubs yourself?











Chinese Carbon Fatbike SN01 - 1 year down


Chinese Carbon Fatbike SN01 - 2.5 years down This review is posted in the "Chinese Carbon Fatty" thread, but will be quickly lost there (as it may do here as well), its been a year now that Ive had the SN01, and to sum up: I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!!!!! Info on the build can be found in posts...




www.mtbr.com





in this post is a link to my Freehub issues, sorry it took a while to find


----------



## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

cmg said:


> Chinese Carbon Fatbike SN01 - 1 year down
> 
> 
> Chinese Carbon Fatbike SN01 - 2.5 years down This review is posted in the "Chinese Carbon Fatty" thread, but will be quickly lost there (as it may do here as well), its been a year now that Ive had the SN01, and to sum up: I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!!!!! Info on the build can be found in posts...
> ...


Thank you!! Exactly the same issue (don't know about the bearing yet) I also got a video from Ican showing that the shaft does push out so I got more aggressive with the hub supported from below and got it out...however the drive side bearing came out as well so the body is captive between the bearing and the end nut. Still can't see any way to resist the turn to get the nut off ! Do you recall at all how you bot the body itself off the shaft?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

pics?


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## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

cmg said:


> pics?


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

cwoodffr said:


> View attachment 1967674
> 
> View attachment 1967672
> 
> ...


yeah exactly the same.....
the Freehub "should" just come off the tube


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## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

I'll take the replacement and just keep it on hand. Not going to waste my time with it a second time. LBS has a beefy Bontrager hub on hand and is close enough spoke spacing. They are lacing it up for me this week.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Carbonspeed CS-197 goes to McGrath in the Iditarod ITI350.


----------



## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

Jayem, 

Interested in how you attached your racks. Can you share?

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Jayem said:


> Carbonspeed CS-197 goes to McGrath in the Iditarod ITI350.


Congratulations, tough race. How were the conditions this year?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mike_kelly said:


> Congratulations, tough race. How were the conditions this year?


I'm about to start writing it up, but there's always something that comes out of left field that you don't expect on this race. While a lot of the conditions were good and temps were very warm, we ran into where the Iron Dog race had taken place the week prior and ridden through wet slush and it froze hard in place after, creating abrupt-transition "bumps" or "moguls" every 15 feet or so, about 3-4 feet high...for 50 miles, well, more than 50 miles, more like all of the areas that weren't out in the open flat, but not all of the areas were wet slush and most of them saw additional traffic that at least rounded the bumps a bit, but on the stretch from Rohn to Nicolai, there wasn't any additional traffic and the bumps were bad. You could kind of pump them when the trail was more level and the bumps more rounded, actually kind of fun for a bit, but when it's over hundreds of miles it does get a little less fun and then that section south of Rohn was just horrible, there would be a trench below the trail level, then the bump above the trail level, not enough room on the sides usually to try and ride around the trench, so a lot of pushing, plus the edges, forward and backward, were abrupt a lot of the time, so you could maybe loft the wheel and get over a few, but again, thousands of times over it wasn't really possible and then there were steep climbs, etc. There was another section of trail that was destroyed by moose for about 5 miles. While I've seen moose destruction before and that's not very long, I've never seen it to this scale, where they penetrated 3 feet or more on an already packed trail and giant holes far too big to just ride over. That stretch has some hard climbing on it and combined with this, it took a lot of effort, but really nothing compared to that stretch screwed up by the snowmobiles. The snowmobile thing usually isn't a big problem, they always churn the surface and it says a little soft, but with the warm temps, rain, slush and then freezing solid in place, I'm not sure how they are going to be able to run the dog-sleds over these features. Our race director and media team were not able to snowmachine south of Rohn, it's just not passable. Hopefully the dogs are ok and maybe with the number of racers we had on the trail it will be enough to chew the edges, but I'm going to be watching the news closely for reports from the Iditarod dog race, just real interested to see what happens. Otherwise, we had a lot of good trail, a lot of good weather. Sometimes it was a bit oft due to the warmth. For that reason, I traveled at night much of the time. I've come to realize there's a huge difference between a "packed" trail and a "set" trail. A set trail is not necessarily packed, but will support your weight...as long as it is cold and settled. A packed trail will usually support your weight either way, but most trails out in these places are not packed, they are just set, so you can have radically different results in the ability to travel on the trail depending on what time and weather, which can be good to plan around. 

It's still hard to complain too much though, generally decent conditions. Overflow in some places dictated some route changes, but nothing radical. I did need the waders a few times, which was nice to have on me. 

Dropper post was brilliant, not just on those whoop-de-whoops, but it's hard to convey in words how difficult it is to mount and dismount on a fat-bike in these conditions after mile 200. A dropper helps a lot and that helps to minimize the cumulative damage and fatigue you are doing to yourself.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

akgrimace said:


> Jayem,
> 
> Interested in how you attached your racks. Can you share?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


So what I did was bought an Axiom fat bike rack, I think it's called the "fatliner". It seems to be intended to work with a QR setup, but what I did was drill a 12mm hole in back of the QR hole, and then I simply slid my through-axle through the rack attachments. I had considered just increasing the size of the hole that was already there, but I concluded it wouldn't leave enough material, so I drilled a hole next to it where the dropout attachment was wider. Axiom sells seatpost collar that also has rack mounts. I inquired about it and this was the reply I got:



> Axiom, alongside a few other brands, does make a rack-compatible seatpost collar for 34.9mm frames. I'd recommend speaking to your bike shop as to whether it's advisable to do so on your bike and then have them put an order in for you. The part number for the Axiom collar is 255120-04, but we're also waiting for a restocking shipment to come in around the end of October.


I lucked out because one of my bike shops DID have that seatpost collar in stock, so with that on hand, I ordered the rack, hoping I'd be able to mod it easily...which I was.

I had ridden it for hundreds of miles testing it, making sure everything stays tight, doesn't show any signs of damage, etc. Hell, I was "stress-testing" it riding up and down South Fork Rim and Hemlock Burn and all the hiker post-holes multiple times a week, not to mention all of the other tech trails, just to see if anything would come loose or give.

The only issue I had was Cakeeater 27.5 tire studs rubbed a little on the underside of the rack. It should be known though that these are the biggest tires you can get, in terms of diameter, bigger than 2XL, J5, Bud and Lou, etc. This was basically on the little supports for the adjustable-arms that connect to the collar. Didn't look to be any structural effect and I removed a little material with a file/dremel and let the studs to the rest. I didn't have any issue with this on the ITI because I used Dillinger 5s (which was a good decision from the rolling resistance perspective). Basically, if you can make Cakeeater 27.5x4.5s fit, which run large for 4.5, anything else will fit and clearance is not a problem.

They allowed me to run my Porcelain Rocket panniers fairly low, which is good, as well as far enough back, to clear massive winter boots/wolfgars/overboots. 

I had originally inquired about the Old Mountain racks, which work in a similar way, except they require an axle swap. They didn't make an axle/adapter for the CS197 though, so while they claim to be compatible with any bike, they are not. The reason the Axiom worked was it was simpler and easier to mod.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Jayem said:


> I'm about to start writing it up, but there's always something that comes out of left field that you don't expect on this race.


While i generally consider most you death wish athletes to be mental ill  It is a special opportunity to see country that most people never get to see. But in reading past journals like your above description things like pushing a loaded bike for 100 miles through deep snow or the crap you had to go through just begs the question why? I guess you are driven by challenge and competition and to do the uncommon that others will not do.
So once again congratulations, glad you made it safe and sound. It is quite an accomplishment to finish.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mike_kelly said:


> While i generally consider most you death wish athletes to be mental ill  It is a special opportunity to see country that most people never get to see. But in reading past journals like your above description things like pushing a loaded bike for 100 miles through deep snow or the crap you had to go through just begs the question why? I guess you are driven by challenge and competition and to do the uncommon that others will not do.
> So once again congratulations, glad you made it safe and sound. It is quite an accomplishment to finish.


Thanks. The answer to the "why" is in the pictures 








2022 Iditarod ITI


Amazing time out there, challenging conditions and yet some of the best conditions at the same time. Amazing to participate in this and get to the finish in McGrath, AK. Rode into town on Thursday this week. Although I finished this race last year, the course last year was modified to avoid...




www.mtbr.com


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

Found a death crack in my borealis crestone today. Want to just order a Chinese frame but I'm wanting to run 5" johnny 5's on 90mm rims. Anyone know of a Chinese carbon frame that will handle that?


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

I am pretty sure the XMCarbonspeed CS-197 will handle VEE SNowshoe 5.05.

YA here it is:








CS-197 and Snowshoe 2XL Setup


I’m not very good at this forum thing, my last attempt received zero responses. However, I eventually found the info I was looking for. Anyway, according to Peter at CS there are many folks that are running his CS-197 frame with a Snowshoe 2XL, and no chain rub. I asked about preferred bottom...




www.mtbr.com


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

BillyBicycle said:


> Found a death crack in my borealis crestone today. Want to just order a Chinese frame but I'm wanting to run 5" johnny 5's on 90mm rims. Anyone know of a Chinese carbon frame that will handle that?


CS-197 from XM Carbonspeed will for sure. I know, because I have. It will also handle 27.5 Cake-eater 4.5s, which are even bigger (diameter).


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

mike_kelly said:


> I am pretty sure the XMCarbonspeed CS-197 will handle VEE SNowshoe 5.05.
> 
> YA here it is:
> 
> ...





Jayem said:


> CS-197 from XM Carbonspeed will for sure. I know, because I have. It will also handle 27.5 Cake-eater 4.5s, which are even bigger (diameter).


thanks guys ! saved me some time.


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## remiel (Jun 18, 2019)

Hi,

I'm hoping to draw some experiences prior to a potential purchase.

I have a LBS house brand fatbike at the moment, Xeed Fat Tubby (unfortunate name, I know) that I've upgraded to the point that the only original parts left are the frame, crankset and wheels. It's a hardtail, and it's taking its toll on my back.

Having had back issues over the later years, I've been eyeing the ICAN SN04 for quite a while now in the hopes that a full sus frame will help. I've contacted ICAN and asked if my 4.8" Jumbo Jims on 100mm wide rims will fit the frame or if they will rub, and ICAN said they will fit fine. I have however read some contradictory information on exactly which wheels and tires will actually fit, so any real world experiences will be most appreciated.

Further, I'm a big guy, 193cm (~6'4") and about 125kg (~276lbs), so I've upgraded the brakes on my Xeed from the dinky 180/160mm f/r Tektro brakes it came with to Shimano XT M8020 4-pot 203/180mm f/r for some real stopping power. ICAN recommends max 160mm rotor in the rear fro the SN04, but I've seen quite a few pictures of the bikes where it looks like there's a 180mm rotor in the rear. Again, real world experience on this will be highly appreciated.

My current bike has a 100mm BB shell with a Race Face Ride crankset, which, from what I've found, comes with the RF189 axle spindle, and, from what I understand, should fit a 120mm BB shell just fine. I'm not too familiar with the different cranksets so I'm a bit scared that the one I have won't fit, but worst case I'll get a new one that does fit.

Size-wise, the large frame geometry numbers match pretty close to my Xeed frame (which is XL), so with a bit of tweaking of the seat position and the stem length I think that should work out fine. The only real issue is the rear brake rotor size. I can get other rims and/or tires to avoid rubbing, but I kinda want to keep my rear 180mm brake rotor after getting used to be able to stop quickly.

All components on my current bike will be transferred across to the new frame: XT brakes and drivetrain, RST Renegade 120mm suspension fork, bar, stem, mudguards, wheels and tires and crankset. The only thing I won't be able to transfer will be my Topeak UNI Fat Tourist rear rack unless I can hack something together.

Any insight, advice, recommendations you can share will help immensely in my decision. It's a large investment, and one I'll be living with for a long time, so I want to make the best possibly informed purchase decision I can.

Thank you for reading.


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## El_Topo (Jul 26, 2018)

remiel said:


> I'm hoping to draw some experiences prior to a potential purchase.
> ...I've contacted ICAN and asked if my 4.8" Jumbo Jims on 100mm wide rims will fit the frame or if they will rub, and ICAN said they will fit fine. I have however read some contradictory information on exactly which wheels and tires will actually fit, so any real world experiences will be most appreciated.
> ...ICAN recommends max 160mm rotor in the rear fro the SN04, but I've seen quite a few pictures of the bikes where it looks like there's a 180mm rotor in the rear. Again, real world experience on this will be highly appreciated.
> ....
> Any insight, advice, recommendations you can share will help immensely in my decision. It's a large investment, and one I'll be living with for a long time, so I want to make the best possibly informed purchase decision I can.


I can't help with first hand experience, but a user on another forum says the 4.8 tire won't clear.
There is also this SN04 build in a German for for sale, you might not be able to read German, but be able to read the numbers, and the current owner also didn't go for larger than 160mm rotors in the back. He also only runs a 4.7" tire in the back, whereas he uses a 4.8" in the front, I assume that is because the 4.8 didn't fit (and the 4.7" might actually be smaller than just those 0.1" indicated).


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## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

remiel said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm hoping to draw some experiences prior to a potential purchase.
> 
> ...


This is a tough one, however as an owner I'd say that Ican 04 is a nice frame and most likely will serve you well, so changing a rear wheel/tire should not be a deal breaker.

I can tell that in my case it fit the rear wheel/tire combo from DRT 4.1









Co-op Cycles DRT 4.1 Fat-Tire Bike | REI Co-op


When life gives you roots, rocks, sand or snow—anything, really—you'll be thrilled that you can roll over it like it's shag carpet when you're astride the Co-op Cycles DRT 4.1 fat-tire bike.




www.rei.com





However, in the end I ended up ditching my old fat wheels and buying carbon wheel set from ICAN - the difference in weight and rolling resistance was very noticeable.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Cant help with your question, but some advice from my experience:

skip the ICAN wheels, at your weight the hubs will be toast, l was replacing a freehub every year
skip the ICAN headset
skip the Bottom Bracket

I have and love an SN01, and somewhere theres a review "SNO1 one year down" or something like that about it (its now 7yrs old) , which has all my experiences with it.

edit: scroll back in this thread and you should find it


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## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

cmg said:


> Cant help with your question, but some advice from my experience:
> 
> skip the ICAN wheels, at your weight the hubs will be toast, l was replacing a freehub every year
> skip the ICAN headset
> ...


The problem, though, is that today you could be waiting months for another headset and bottom bracket. For example I had my ICAN 04 assembled in November last year and LBS told me that if I did not have ICAN bottom bracket, it would have been a 4 months wait for them to get the one that fits.


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## Steewen (Mar 1, 2021)

durask said:


> The problem, though, is that today you could be waiting months for another headset and bottom bracket. For example I had my ICAN 04 assembled in November last year and LBS told me that if I did not have ICAN bottom bracket, it would have been a 4 months wait for them to get the one that fits.


I think that frame has a threaded bottom bracket, right? That should be pretty easy to find.. Cant see that taking 4 months.


----------



## remiel (Jun 18, 2019)

cmg said:


> Cant help with your question, but some advice from my experience:
> 
> skip the ICAN wheels, at your weight the hubs will be toast, l was replacing a freehub every year
> skip the ICAN headset
> ...


If I buy, I'll only be buying the naked frame. I will then transfer all components from my current bike to the new frame. My LBS carries a number of different headsets in various price and quality brackets, so I'll pop down there with the frame and have them find a suitable headset if the one in my current bike doesn't fit.

I'm looking for a set of DT Swiss Big Ride wheels (BR 2250 or BR 710) as I'm told those hubs are near indestructible. The rims are also 76mm wide, which should help a little with the overall tire width and hopefully allow me to run my 4.8" Jumbo Jims. I might be wrong about a narrower rim making the tire narrower, however.


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## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

Speaking of frames, I have large SN04 frame (changed to medium size, large ended up being too large for me).
Derailleur hanger possibly bent and has a small paint chip (ironically peeled off a small piece of paint when applying protective vinyl tape).


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## remiel (Jun 18, 2019)

durask said:


> Speaking of frames, I have large SN04 frame (changed to medium size, large ended up being too large for me).
> Derailleur hanger possibly bent and has a small paint chip (ironically peeled off a small piece of paint when applying protective vinyl tape).


I'm usually not good at taking hints, but this sounds like you're tempting me with a nice frame at a good price, and I think we should talk. 

That said, I'm leaving for a 2 week vacation with the family tomorrow morning, so I kinda need to see that through first. Feel free to shoot me a PM with pictures and a price though! 

The derailleur hanger is available from ican for $30 plus shipping so if that needs replacing, it shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## AKkronos (3 mo ago)

I ordered a CS197 from tantan. Will a Johnny 5 mounted on 100mm rims fit in their fork? It says it's good for 4.8 inches, but I'm hoping to find someone with personally experience. Thanks


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

AKkronos said:


> I ordered a CS197 from tantan. Will a Johnny 5 mounted on 100mm rims fit in their fork? It says it's good for 4.8 inches, but I'm hoping to find someone with personally experience. Thanks


Don't know specifically, I don't use their fork, but I've never had tires like that or the Cakeeater 27.5x4.5 come close to maxing out a fork. Even though the dimensions often say less, again, they end up with gobs of clearance effectively. Through a Salsa CF fork, the Fatback and some no-name chinese forks, never any problems on that side of the bike. I'm on the fatback fork now.


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## AKkronos (3 mo ago)

Jayem said:


> Don't know specifically, I don't use their fork, but I've never had tires like that or the Cakeeater 27.5x4.5 come close to maxing out a fork. Even though the dimensions often say less, again, they end up with gobs of clearance effectively. Through a Salsa CF fork, the Fatback and some no-name chinese forks, never any problems on that side of the bike. I'm on the fatback fork now.


Thanks, i just ordered some. I couldn't find any at the local bike shops and finding them online was also a challenge, so I figured I better pick them up before they become unobtainium.


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## AKkronos (3 mo ago)

Has anyone tried running a the 169mm raceface cinch spindle with a flipped chain ring? Looks like it has nearly the same chainline as the Sram fat 5. The 190mm spindle has some q factors that are getting out there.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

AKkronos said:


> Has anyone tried running a the 169mm raceface cinch spindle with a flipped chain ring? Looks like it has nearly the same chainline as the Sram fat 5. The 190mm spindle has some q factors that are getting out there.


I've been able to run a 169 Raceface regular 24mm spindle crank on my CS197...but it is real real tight, need a bunch of 1mm spacers and BB spacers to play around with to get it right. I wouldn't recommend it. IME, you don't notice Q-factor after a few min of riding...


----------



## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Some pictures from yesterday....






























Enviat des del meu Redmi Note 8 Pro usant Tapatalk


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## cwoodffr (May 23, 2019)

Made the first ride of the fatty season moving from FS 29er to my ICAN SN01. So fun and nimble for a fat bike and a nice change. Just so happy with how tight and strong it feels. Love this thing.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

had my SN01 for nearly 8yrs now, still love it 










cant see myself ever getting rid of it


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## down0050 (Aug 4, 2014)

AKkronos said:


> Has anyone tried running a the 169mm raceface cinch spindle with a flipped chain ring? Looks like it has nearly the same chainline as the Sram fat 5. The 190mm spindle has some q factors that are getting out there.


Yes, the 169mm spindle works well and you don't even have to flip the chainring, there's a lot of clearance around the chainstay and yoke. Might rub on the tire is you're using 12 speed in smallest cog, but with 11 speed it works great!


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Some pictures from yesterday... 


IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221210/e63963e95ee9d46698e484ab9f569e37.jpg[/IMG]

































































Enviat des del meu Redmi Note 8 Pro usant Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Yesterday. I shoulda put on my Cake-Eaters. Oh well.


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## wind_dre (Apr 7, 2016)

Jayem said:


> Yesterday. I shoulda put on my Cake-Eaters. Oh well.
> View attachment 2013356
> View attachment 2013357
> View attachment 2013358


Where is??? 

Enviat des del meu Redmi Note 8 Pro usant Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

wind_dre said:


> Where is???
> 
> Enviat des del meu Redmi Note 8 Pro usant Tapatalk


Anchorage, AK


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Anchorage is a suburb of Seattle if you don't know where it is.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mike_kelly said:


> Anchorage is a suburb of Seattle if you don't know where it is.


That's Juneau.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

No No Juneau and Fairbanks are the real Alaska.


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