# New Sinister DH Bike- The F-Bomb



## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

Twas released at Highland's end of the season partay. Here be some pix.


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## snowskilz (Feb 19, 2004)

looks flexy


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## shakenbakebaby (Jan 20, 2007)

looks like an ironhorse kumicho


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

looks like a big dumb single pivot...


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## HOFFMAN223 (Aug 24, 2004)

scabrider said:


> looks like a big dumb single pivot...


I hear ya! I thought that the R9 was a sweet frame, why does it seem like they went backwards all of a sudden?


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

The old R9 was just a glorified single pivot too.... But this... reminds me of those sweet Wall-mart Magna bikes. low single pivot with a triangulated rear end.

Not impressed.


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

chooofoojoo said:


> The old R9 was just a glorified single pivot too.... But this... reminds me of those sweet Wall-mart Magna bikes. low single pivot with a triangulated rear end.
> 
> Not impressed.


i know the r9 was just a sp, but at least it looked cool...


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

Kinda looks like a non DW DHR...

Looks simple, I like it. However, do miss the R9.


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## rufusdesign (Sep 19, 2008)

Any bike now a days is going to look like something else. I like the look of it and I know that the production is going to look so much sicker than this one.
This is the first run proto, only frame of it's kind right now. This first batch will be merely a test run just like any other companies first run proto's. 

The frame comes in right now at 8lbs with rear shock. The build that you see in the pic is right around the 40lb mark and that is with DH tubes, ADD wheelset, crap tires and seat, etc.
New boxxer, light race wheelset, tube or tubeless, seattube and saddle, and a sunline setup in front will easily get you right around the 34-35lb mark for a DH race bike. If that doesn't tingle your man bits right there then I don't know what will.

The frame looks sick in person. There will be changes made for sure and definitely for the better, just look at what the gruitr turned into.

The rear swingarm assy on the R9 was a royal pain in the a** to make Frank told me. This one is much easier to make and still has the characteristics of the R9 one. 

There should NEVER be a question of "is this a good bike or not", etc. If you know anything about Frank and a Frank the Welder bike of any kind you know that it is top quality, super reliable, damn near impossible to break, most fun to ride machine out there.
20+ years of experience shows in this new frame and it will be a definite success.

Oh and I can't wait to get mine. I will be doing a full report on it during testing, throughout the entire process all the way up to production and I will be doing the same on the production rig as well so look out for those.


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

shakenbakebaby said:


> looks like an ironhorse kumicho


Exactly what my first thought was.

Yakuza Kumicho









Sinistr F-bomb


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

I'm bummed it's not VST, the weight is incredible, but right now I'm just not digging the way it looks. I liked the look of that slopestyle bike on the sinister forum much more. Maybe if you guys add some more of that sinister CNC goodness to clean it up a bit and make it look a bit beefier. Also Rufus do you know if the MSRP will be less than the R9?


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

Flystagg said:


> I'm bummed it's not VST, the weight is incredible, but right now I'm just not digging the way it looks. I liked the look of that slopestyle bike on the sinister forum much more. Maybe if you guys add some more of that sinister CNC goodness to clean it up a bit and make it look a bit beefier. Also Rufus do you know if the MSRP will be less than the R9?


It better be. From what I know, they will no longer be made in house. Production is now under Devinci bikes in Canada.


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## Nagaredama (Aug 2, 2004)

WTF-bomb. I want to see that VST bike!


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

no these are going to be made in vermont, only the gruitr is made by devinci


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## JOURNEYC6 (Jun 7, 2008)

Whast wrong with the single pivot? one of the best DH bikes are single pivot: chumba, rocky m. mountain cycle...to name a few. I don't want to be dealing with 3 triangles, 20 bearings and bushings, 10 links.:madman: .......I like it simple.
Nice bike:thumbsup:


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## snowskilz (Feb 19, 2004)

unless this new bike has a 50mm pivot axle, its going to be flexy for anyone truly railing the bike.

sorry to be pesimistic but honestly the r9 was pimp and then they go to this... come on now


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## rufusdesign (Sep 19, 2008)

dowst said:


> It better be. From what I know, they will no longer be made in house. Production is now under Devinci bikes in Canada.


The gruitr and the '09 DNA were made by Devinci to lighten the load of constant welding the Frank does day in and day out. Those were the only two. This one will be handmade by Frank in Vermont.
I personally have a feeling that the rear triangle will change but for now we will test the crap out of it and enjoy it.
I have not heard anything from Bruce or the other boys on MSRP but I am guessing that it will be similar to the R9.


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

yea. if it is anything like my kumicho, it will be flexy


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## rufusdesign (Sep 19, 2008)

Nagaredama said:


> WTF-bomb. I want to see that VST bike!


That VST bike is EXPENSIVE to start. I know that Frank is still waiting on the patent and is waiting to hear from them. It might not ever happen but if/when it does it will be the future of mountain biking.
If Sinister had the budget of say Specialized and had the same for R&D and a full time staff of 100's of people then it would be something that you would see in the very near future but they don't. Support Sinister by buying some frames and getting the name out and help us reach our goal of that beautiful VST.


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## be350ka (Dec 17, 2004)

I currently ride the R9 and absolutely love the bike. I was waiting very impatiently for the arrival of the F-bomb and can honestly say that I wasn't overwhelmed like I had hoped. The biggest thing I want out of my DH bike is stiffness and I wonder what the rear of this one will hold.


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

I think Frank focused a little too much on making it light weight, I think it will turn out ok if they stick in a big pivot axle, and wrap that bb pivot assembly in some nice cnc casings.

You know they will test this thing relentlessly, and won't release it until it is up to Sinister beefiness standards,


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## kingofthemountain82 (Aug 15, 2007)

My first thought is that it looked like my bike. Oh Wait...My bike's an iron horse kumicho. Haha....cool


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## blender (Oct 28, 2005)

Don't know how this frame will ride but it has a long way to go to reach R9's aesthetics
The R9 is just too sick of a bike.. big shoes to fill here


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## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

Meh.. I have always loved the R9. This bike looks odd and not as unique. Stick with what works.. But,.. looks are not what matters, how does it ride?


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## carbuncle (Dec 9, 2005)

Yawn...high chainstay single pivot...wow.


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

How sad.


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

What has two thumbs and isn't impressed...



This Guy:thumbsup:


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## Hesh to Steel (Oct 2, 2007)

Knowing sinister's rep for quality, I'm sure the end product will ride fantastically. 

But yeah, like everyone else has stated, the R9 was pure sex and this one just doesn't have the same wow factor in terms of aesthetics.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

I think too many people are directly comparing the F-Bomb to the R9. Don't compare it. It is not the same bike. 

Just consider it the DH frame in the lineup left vacant by the R9.


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## be350ka (Dec 17, 2004)

Demo-9 said:


> I think too many people are directly comparing the F-Bomb to the R9. Don't compare it. It is not the same bike.
> 
> Just consider it the DH frame in the lineup left vacant by the R9.


I will be hard for anyone to give a true thumbs up or down without getting some time on the bike. But, when you consider what created the vacancy in the DH spot in the Sinister lineup its hard not to compare the two.


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## Hesh to Steel (Oct 2, 2007)

Demo-9 said:


> I think too many people are directly comparing the F-Bomb to the R9. Don't compare it. It is not the same bike.
> 
> Just consider it the DH frame in the lineup left vacant by the R9.


So we can't compare bikes that are different? Meaning that we can only compare bikes that are the same? That's a bummer. 
We're comparing the old sinister dh bike to the new sinister dh bike, just like people compared the old DHR to the new DW DHR and how people will compare the old sunday to the new IH DH bike (if anyone cares about IH by then). If there were no comparing of bikes in this forum, it would be pretty boring.


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

Demo-9 said:


> I think too many people are directly comparing the F-Bomb to the R9. Don't compare it. It is not the same bike.
> 
> Just consider it the DH frame in the lineup left vacant by the R9.


? :skep:


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

What I meant was everyone hates on the bike because it LOOKS different than the R9. It is a different bike for christs sake. Everyone says it sucks by the appearance of it. Only about 3 people on this planet have actually ridden the thing yet all armchair engineers say it will suck.


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## Hesh to Steel (Oct 2, 2007)

Demo-9 said:


> What I meant was everyone hates on the bike because it LOOKS different than the R9. It is a different bike for christs sake. Everyone says it sucks by the appearance of it. Only about 3 people on this planet have actually ridden the thing yet all armchair engineers say it will suck.


Nobody in the entire thread said it will suck based on the looks. Some people said the rear end looks flexy. all we have is a picture, so that's all we are able to base our opinions on. Therefore, most of the comments in this thread have been about the appearance of the bike, and most have stated that they're ONLY talking about the appearance.

if someone says they like the way the R9 looks better than the F-bomb, that's not armchair engineering, it's stating an opinion.


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## dankist4x4 (Jun 26, 2006)

Demo-9 said:


> What I meant was everyone hates on the bike because it LOOKS different than the R9. It is a different bike for christs sake. Everyone says it sucks by the appearance of it. Only about 3 people on this planet have actually ridden the thing yet all armchair engineers say it will suck.


Amen Brother, amen


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

scabrider said:


> looks like a big dumb single pivot...


:O single pivot is the only way to go!, light durable and very affective


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

I guess I read posts as "implied" sometimes. Since everyone hates the looks it is "implied" that it is not a good performance frame.. Oh well.. Either way time will tell how it rides.


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## Curious-George (Aug 10, 2008)

Flystagg said:


> no these are going to be made in vermont, only the gruitr is made by devinci


say word devinci makes them


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## Andrewpalooza (Dec 7, 2004)

looks like someone broke into the Cannondale factory and stole some swingarms.

I hate single-pivot haters.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

Weight comes second to performance and durability anyday. That said though, I'm sure this bike won't perform much different than the R9, and it is much lighter.


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## carbuncle (Dec 9, 2005)

Demo-9 said:


> What I meant was everyone hates on the bike because it LOOKS different than the R9. It is a different bike for christs sake. Everyone says it sucks by the appearance of it. Only about 3 people on this planet have actually ridden the thing yet all armchair engineers say it will suck.


Whatdya mean I haven't ridden it, I owned one three years ago!










For the record, I didn't say the new bike sucks, I just said it's boring. 'Cause it is.


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## btf95 (Dec 29, 2004)

Actually it looks more similar to a FTW design. This one is from a few yrs ago.

















pics were posted on our blog because of all the questions and interest from so many friends and family. It's tough keeping stuff under wraps. Seems like every time a bike leaves the shop someone gets a pic of it. I consider myself and Sinister pretty transparent business wise. The shop is always open and we welcome everyone to stop by or have a few beers with us at events. Talk shop (see the VST in it's newest application), shoot the sh*t. Whatever. So I thought I'd share. Nothing "sinister, pardon the pun, going on. We build great bikes. Sometimes we make a profit, most times we don't. Why, because we believe in fun and quality and put our customer 1st. I appreciate all the interest and opinions. And thank you all for your input. Good to see you peeps care about what's on the market for bikes. I sure do.

Couple more things about the frame,
it's low, light, tough, fast, simple, effective, efficient and....not done yet.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

scabrider said:


> looks like a big dumb single pivot...


I am right there with you


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## HOFFMAN223 (Aug 24, 2004)

Demo-9 said:


> What I meant was everyone hates on the bike because it LOOKS different than the R9. It is a different bike for christs sake. Everyone says it sucks by the appearance of it. Only about 3 people on this planet have actually ridden the thing yet all armchair engineers say it will suck.


If we are talking about looks, then yes, it kinda does suck, nothing more boring than version no. 273 of the high chainstay single pivot design. However, I have a ton of respect for FTW, so I know that the functionality of the design WILL NOT suck. I'm sure that this frame will probably ride better than every other frame that has the same appearance. For the record, I am an engineer, a mechanical engineer to be more precise, not quite an armchair engineer.

I assure you that this was not written with any hate behind it, therfore do not consider me a hater. That being said, I was so impressed with the R9, that I assumed that the next variation was going to be in the same vain, but on a more advanced level. By the way, if I am not mistaken, the 9 in the R9 name signifies the 9th iteration of the suspension design. With that in mind, I only anticipated something more.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

When I saw it my first thought was, damn that thing is sweet. Super burly, light, and functional from a company dedicated to riding, not profit. It's been said a million times but I will say it again: at the end of the day it's not going to be the suspension design that will make you a winner, its the rider. 

Sinister is an awesome little company that's dedicated to bringing people and awesome bike and experiance. We need more of that in this industry.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Well all I can say is that I became a believer in Sinister with my Gruitr. I had a Bottlerocket and after talking to Bruce (BTF95) for weeks, I finally bought a frame. I really wanted something that I could ride in the same places yet be a few pounds lighter. The Gruitr blew away the BR in every aspect. I swapped parts and the bike lost 5 lbs.

Sure the Gruitr looks like others. But the geometry is perfect, weight is amazing yet strong, suspension feels terrific, nimble, etc. The point is the frame design while similar to others just outright kicks ass. I love the feel of it and I can only assume the F-Bomb will progress from the proto frame to perfection.

Also keep in mind it is a prototype. Sinister does not have like 10 guys on new proto frames all covered up in secret riding at remote locations. They built one bike (I assume) for now to let the few guys test and make comments. Hell FTW already said that he plans to change the HA and tweak before the few next proto frame(s) are built.

I give them credit for throwing it out there barely finished. They threw on a bunch of parts and took some pics probably hours after the last weld cooled off.


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## hugeben (Jan 15, 2006)

Looks like the swing arms will be breaking in that thin bit beside the pivot. 
Whats wrong with single pivots? They don't pedal that well and suffer from brake jack. They can be okay with a floating brake and high pivot point.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

I love when single pivot haters bring out the old "brake jack" response.


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> I am right there with you


What high end, quality, single pivot DH bikes have you ever owned Bob? Your old Stinky doesn't count, I said high end, quality, and DH....


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

HOFFMAN223 said:


> By the way, if I am not mistaken, the 9 in the R9 name signifies the 9th iteration of the suspension design. With that in mind, I only anticipated something more.


Revision 9, you're right. Great bike, curious to see the new F-bomb in action... hopefully with a different name... ha.


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## rufusdesign (Sep 19, 2008)

hugeben said:


> Looks like the swing arms will be breaking in that thin bit beside the pivot.
> Whats wrong with single pivots? They don't pedal that well and suffer from brake jack. They can be okay with a floating brake and high pivot point.


It is called learning how to ride a single pivot frame. If you work on your riding techniques around the frame that you are riding then it is very easy to be able to "adapt" and enjoy the ride experience. I noticed this so called "brake jack" when I first got my R9. I wouldn't describe it as brake jack rather than when you slam on the rear brake you didn't get a smooth skid but rather a few hops. At the end of the season it became a natural part of my riding and it was not noticeable at all, (if it was even there) and made for a better riding experience.
The floating brake is just a "solution" to make the single pivot haters shut up and is a pathetic piece of marketing BS. 
With my suspension set up to my liking I had my R9 pedaling like a champ. My teammate pedals the R9 up mountains before coming back down. He rides all of Waterbury on an R9 without walking. IF any of you have been there then you know what I am talking about.
This frame is going to be SICK. Frank the Welder is the Chuck Norris of mountain biking. FTW FTW.


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## rufusdesign (Sep 19, 2008)

For all of the haters of the single pivot let me ask you what your thoughts are on the new Yeti 303-R-DH? Single/high pivot but with a rail. 
You must hate that too right?


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## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

hmmm.... not the nicests bike ive seen.


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## NoManerz (Feb 10, 2006)

the rear reminds me of those goofy clifcat frames


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## Jim Mac (Jun 29, 2004)

Word from FTW:

"I made the parts in my shop, I know I wouldn't be happy with many of the small details so we just hacked them ourselves. That frame is a small, the chainstays are 17.5" and the head angle is 65 where is sits now. That may change when I see where the fork rides in it's range. As with any design I do , I am looking for something in the overall performance. Good weight balance, the right grip under braking and tracking through bumpy turns. One of my goals upon starting this bike was to build a bike that would be faster and easier to ride fast. Right now, I expect to pull the head angle in about 1/2 to one degree From where it is now in the range of fork adjustment you can only go slacker. perhaps a degree steeper. the cool thing about the F-bomb is the tubing is still burly and the parts are not creepy thin. It's so friggin stiff my Ridge is not stoked."

http://www.sinisterbikes.com/sbforum/showthread.php?t=1243&page=2

I think when it is done, the F Bomb can be no worse than an Orange or Morewood - 2 bikes that are single pivot and are also good race bikes.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Well... I didn't win the Intense, but I'll be waiting on a PM so I can provide you with an address to send my new frame* to :madmax: 

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4521818#poststop

*If you want to substitute an R9 I'd be ok with that.


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## kenneththecurtain (Jan 7, 2007)

Demo-9 said:


> I love when single pivot haters bring out the old "brake jack" response.


With good reason. My orange brake jacks like a *****. Not to say it doesn't ride well, and as others have said with a good rider it wouldn't matter. Didn't hold Peaty back, but it still doesn't feel half as nice as a bike with a floater when braking over gnarly stuff and trying not to get blown off the pedals.


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

kenneththecurtain said:


> With good reason. My orange brake jacks like a *****. Not to say it doesn't ride well, and as others have said with a good rider it wouldn't matter. Didn't hold Peaty back, but it still doesn't feel half as nice as a bike with a floater when braking over gnarly stuff and trying not to get blown off the pedals.


Brake jack is non existent on almost every DH bike made.... just saying.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

kenneththecurtain said:


> With good reason. My orange brake jacks like a *****. Not to say it doesn't ride well, and as others have said with a good rider it wouldn't matter. Didn't hold Peaty back, but it still doesn't feel half as nice as a bike with a floater when braking over gnarly stuff and trying not to get blown off the pedals.


Then maybe you shouldn't be using your rear brake through the super choppy stuff. Floater or no floater it equals no power. The floater just gives you an excuse for poor form and technique and not learning to make full use of your front brake power. That probably goes hand in hand with choppy stuff blowing you off the pedals. My bet is that you ride heels level or heels up.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Give it some time. It'll have better angles, better lines, normal sizing, and probably be very legitimate.

Gotta admit between it being tossed together and being a small it doesn't look that aesthetically pleasing.


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## blender (Oct 28, 2005)

DHGnaR said:


> Brake jack is non existent on almost every DH bike made.... just saying.


da truth!



DHidiot said:


> Then maybe you shouldn't be using your rear brake through the super choppy stuff. Floater or no floater it equals no power. The floater just gives you an excuse for poor form and technique and not learning to make full use of your front brake power. That probably goes hand in hand with choppy stuff blowing you off the pedals. My bet is that you ride heels level or heels up.


truth again!

damn it hurts...


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## kenneththecurtain (Jan 7, 2007)

DHidiot said:


> Then maybe you shouldn't be using your rear brake through the super choppy stuff. Floater or no floater it equals no power. The floater just gives you an excuse for poor form and technique and not learning to make full use of your front brake power. That probably goes hand in hand with choppy stuff blowing you off the pedals. My bet is that you ride heels level or heels up.


No, you shouldn't. But its nice when the rear wheel stays glued to the ground when you do. As I said, to a good rider it wouldn't matter. However, I'm prepared to bet not everyone on here is Steve Peat. I'm well aware of how to combat brake jack, all I'm saying is that it is not a myth, it most definitely does exist, and its not nice. I'm not a single pivot hater either, I bought one after all.

As for braking arms breeding bad habits, that is true to an extent. The same thing can be said for lots of things that make a bike better or faster. Yea, if I rode my hardtail all the time I'd be a much better rider. Does this mean my hardtail is faster, or a better downhill bike?


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

kenneththecurtain said:


> No, you shouldn't. But its nice when the rear wheel stays glued to the ground when you do. As I said, to a good rider it wouldn't matter. However, I'm prepared to bet not everyone on here is Steve Peat. I'm well aware of how to combat brake jack, all I'm saying is that it is not a myth, it most definitely does exist, and its not nice. I'm not a single pivot hater either, I bought one after all.
> 
> As for braking arms breeding bad habits, that is true to an extent. The same thing can be said for lots of things that make a bike better or faster. Yea, if I rode my hardtail all the time I'd be a much better rider. Does this mean my hardtail is faster, or a better downhill bike?


Start riding without a rear brake for a run here and there. It'll force proper form and attack.

I personally like brake jack. It makes you realize you shouldn't be laying on your rear brake because it isn't doing sh*t.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

kenneththecurtain said:


> ...I'm well aware of how to combat brake jack, all I'm saying is that it is not a myth, it most definitely does exist...


unless you've ridden a lawwill suspension design without a floater, you've never experienced brake jack. go back under your rock and don't come out untill you've actually learned something intelligent...


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## tibug (Dec 5, 2006)

Everyone knows that the more fancy schmancy linkages and pivots and shoxs and stuff, the better. Single pivot is just too simple to be any good, of course.


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

ride report up on sinister's blog, aparently it is far from flexy, I'm still hopeing the looks improve a bit, but it is starting to grow on me. Frame weighs 8lbs with the shock, and is made from the same tubing as the R9.

http://sinisterbikes.typepad.com/


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## asin (Jan 31, 2005)

whole lotta meh


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

chooofoojoo said:


> The old R9 was just a glorified single pivot too.... But this... reminds me of those sweet Wall-mart Magna bikes. low single pivot with a triangulated rear end.
> 
> Not impressed.


Can somone please explain to me how this is a "glorified single pivot"?  Seriously, I don't understand.


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

rep_1969 said:


> Can somone please explain to me how this is a "glorified single pivot"?  Seriously, I don't understand.


look at the chainstay between the rear axle and the main frame there is only one pivot point,so the new F-bomb should have a nearly identical axle path, and braking performance as the R9, in essence all the other linkages on the R-9 do nothing for suspension performance, except change the leverage curve and rate, which can be emulated on a single pivot frame as well.


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

Flystagg said:


> look at the chainstay between the rear axle and the main frame there is only one pivot point,so the new F-bomb should have a nearly identical axle path, and braking performance as the R9, in essence all the other linkages on the R-9 do nothing for suspension performance, except change the leverage curve and rate, which can be emulated on a single pivot frame as well.


So since it's missing THIS (see pic) it's basically a single-pivot. Thanks for the insight.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Here are some new photos of Frank The Welder's ride.


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## Jim Mac (Jun 29, 2004)

Supposedly he'll be doing some testing at Plattekill #1 DH race this weekend!


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## RPG (Sep 16, 2005)

yeah, it looks like an IH or a Cannondale, but single pivots aren't that bad. Look at the DHR. It does look a step back from the R9 though.


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## clockwork (Dec 9, 2006)

shakenbakebaby said:


> looks like an ironhorse kumicho


First thing that cam to mind here also


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## Sghost (Jul 15, 2008)

>


HOT


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## tozovr (Jul 26, 2006)

RPG said:


> yeah, it looks like an IH or a Cannondale, but single pivots aren't that bad. Look at the DHR. It does look a step back from the R9 though.


R9 was a single Pivot as well 



clockwork said:


> First thing that cam to mind here also


Yeah but without the flexy part  :thumbsup:


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## rd3 (Mar 18, 2006)

Wow! 
Looks like we have a mean & lean racing machine here!


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## Prettym1k3 (Oct 11, 2005)

Your built is fantastic.

But I'd rather just pick up an old Iron Horse single pivot off Craigslist for $250.


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## rustyskills (Dec 23, 2007)

scabrider said:


> looks like a big dumb single pivot...


post of the week in my opinion

not to big on sinlge pivots either too many other better suspension designs out there


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

scabrider said:


> looks like a big dumb single pivot...


wow....can't believe the thinking


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

rep_1969 said:


> So since it's missing THIS (see pic) it's basically a single-pivot. Thanks for the insight.


no.........
that makes it FSR (Horst Link)


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## tozovr (Jul 26, 2006)

Prettym1k3 said:


> Your built is fantastic.
> 
> But I'd rather just pick up an old Iron Horse single pivot off Craigslist for $250.


Sure, because they will obviously be exactly the same LOL.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Alright, I've gotten some ride time on a couple of these and seen it in action quite a bit while doing some riding with FTW, and the thing is pretty surprising. I think FTW said it best when he said "snotty racer *****". It is LIGHT (7# w/o shock - easy 38-40# with a super pig build), and SILLY stiff in the back end. There is absolutely no deflection in the back end following it down rocky singletrack where I see back end flex on other bikes. The first time you lean the bike over it becomes really clear.

I would not call it a step back from the R9. It's very different. I think it will ultimately be a faster bike on a racecourse. As far as a racebike goes I think it's just about perfect. Everything on it is made to go FAST, and about now is the right time for something like this to come out.

I'll admit I wasn't 100% sold on it until I saw it, but FTW knows what he's doing and he rides at a level where he knows exactly what a DH bike needs to do. The F-bomb does what it needs to do with real efficiency, and every last detail on the bike is thought out and is there for a reason.

As for the single pivot thing......if you have a chance, get on one of these on a trail and lay down the power and see what happens.

If you want one contact FTW directly about it. I believe the first batch was made and immediately sold (or pre-sold), but there will be more. If I were racing seriously I'd probably own one.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Prettym1k3 said:


> But I'd rather just pick up an old Iron Horse single pivot off Craigslist for $250.


Which has no parts available and is as useless as a Pontiac.

I am not even going to get into a single pivot argument. I like SP bikes. Simple, works very well, light, low maintenance, etc. Sure it "looks" like something else out there but what bike doesn't look like something else. "Looks like" does not equal "rides like".


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## Prettym1k3 (Oct 11, 2005)

Demo-9 said:


> Which has no parts available and is as useless as a Pontiac.


Coming from someone who owned a few Iron Horse bikes (SGS Pro, MkIII, and 7point), as well as sold a ton of Iron Horse bikes through Performance over 2005 and 2007/2008, I think I know a little bit about Iron Horse.

I also know that a UK company always has the rights to IH bikes, so while there would be a little lag-time in getting parts, it would still be easy. Derailleur hangers galore are held-up in the old parts bins at Performance Bike shops everywhere, and worst case scenario you go to Derailleurhangers.com and get as many as you want.

The basic single-pivot IH frames, from my recollection, use very simple bearings of a somewhat normal size, so replacing those would be easy.

And I've seen swing-arms on those IH Single-pivots out last almost every other part on the DW-Link bikes that IH produces.

*Nothing against DW-Link bikes. I still have one, and love it to death.*


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

tozovr said:


> R9 was a single Pivot as well


Sorry dude but here on Earth we call that a four-bar linkage.


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## Jettj45 (Jul 25, 2004)

Don't like it.


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## btf95 (Dec 29, 2004)

You guys will get a kick out of this...

__
https://flic.kr/p/3488043129
 Frank weighs about 180ish. He's standing on the swing arm. STIFF is an understatement.

for the record you can call the Sinister office for info too, although Frank is the man behind the machine. Check out the forum and Blog for more info http://www.sinisterbikes.com/sbforum/index.php
http://sinisterbikes.typepad.com/si...-new-2009-sinister-f-bomb-_-ftw-overview.html

and pardon if this is post is sounding like spam. Just thought the link may be helpful answering the questions and clearing up some confusion.


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## tozovr (Jul 26, 2006)

dhtahoe said:


> Sorry dude but here on Earth we call that a four-bar linkage.


Weeeeeeeeeeird...here at the Sinister office we understand that the R9 is basically a single pivot LOL.


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

tozovr said:


> Weeeeeeeeeeird...here at the Sinister office we understand that the R9 is basically a single pivot LOL.


So what about the pivots on the links? I count three pivots. Please explain. Better yet lets go full engineer. How many arms are in that design? Because from an engineering standpoint that is really what matters. I count two the swing arm and the linkage.


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## brillantesdv (Oct 24, 2007)

dhtahoe said:


> So what about the pivots on the links? I count three pivots. Please explain. Better yet lets go full engineer. How many arms are in that design? Because from an engineering standpoint that is really what matters. I count two the swing arm and the linkage.


single pivot doesnt mean total amount of pivots. its how many pivots are between the main pivot on the frame and the axle. horst link there is an extra pivot right before the axle. "multi-pivot" designs like DW and VPP, you see the chainstay is connected to multiple pivots.

on the R9, the axle is swinging on one arm and one pivot. the other pivots are used to actuate the shock.

kona's are _*kinda *_like this too. swing on one main pivot, and have arms to actuaute the shock. they call it 4-bar, but its really a type of single pivot. so maybe you both are right.

but im no engineer...mechanical at least.


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

Prettym1k3 said:


> But I'd rather just pick up an old Iron Horse single pivot off Craigslist for $250.


Very bold statement.


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## tozovr (Jul 26, 2006)

brillantesdv said:


> single pivot doesnt mean total amount of pivots. its how many pivots are between the main pivot on the frame and the axle. horst link there is an extra pivot right before the axle. "multi-pivot" designs like DW and VPP, you see the chainstay is connected to multiple pivots.
> .......* so maybe you both are right.*


Yep, we're both right, it was just a matter of semantics and I was playing devils advocate.


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## milhouse (Jun 22, 2004)

Personally I think its seriously lacking in the looks department. To be specific: The rear triangle like most s.p.'s looks weird, the thin top tube looks too thin (not for strength but for looks), the way the shock interrupts the seat tube isn't very exciting and all the tubes and frame in general look kind of petite. Plus I cant see anything new as far as technology in this frame and technology related buzzwords help to sell. 

I also read mentions above about Sinister not always making a profit and with this frame I would bet that to be more true then ever. I'm not an engineer so I wont speculate about how this will hold up but I am a marketing expert and the simple fact is that about 95% of people buys bikes on looks whether they admit it or not. People spend more money to make their bikes look all pretty with with matching colors then they do on performance.


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## splatman (Jan 30, 2007)

looks gay


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Wow that was an educated response if I ever heard one.

Actually the TT is fairly wide, just not real tall.

If the bike doesn't look exciting enough or have enough buzzwords for you that's OK. There are enough other people around to recognize pure performance when they see it so I don't think he's going to end up with any overstock :thumbsup:


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

chooofoojoo said:


> The old R9 was just a glorified single pivot too.... But this... reminds me of those sweet Wall-mart Magna bikes. low single pivot with a triangulated rear end.
> 
> Not impressed.


once you see the price, you'll be even less impressed.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

splatman said:


> looks gay


I thought this was MTBR. Did I click on pinkbike by accident somehow?

Lots of armchair engineers here I suppose. I agree that many people buy bike parts strictly on the appearance and what is trendy. But wouldn't you rather have a bike frame that performs superior than something that looks amazing (pointing to the guys who dislike the looks).

First off Frank has more experience in bike design, fabrication, welding and craftsmanship than many, many others in the industry. Sinister only puts out great products and is a local NE company. That says a lot for me. They are not Specialized cranking out 4,000 Big Hits and Demos each year overseas only to rape you on the overall price with their sh!tty components. They make a great product at a fair price and back 100% of what they make. Period. I see no reason why the F-Bomb will not continue to deliver on that.


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Damn I love that bike. Form follows function as it should. If arguing the superiority of your bike's instant center path and lack of brake jack is your deal there are plenty of DH bikes that satisfy your schoolboy engineering fantasies. I'm more concerned with fit, geometry/handling, weight, durability, and build quality. I know from experience that FTW knows how to design and build magically good bikes. If you've never ridden an old Spooky or a Sinister you wouldn't understand.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> If the bike doesn't look exciting enough or have enough buzzwords for you that's OK. There are enough other people around to recognize pure performance when they see it so I don't think he's going to end up with any overstock :thumbsup:


Lol, people *****ing about bike's looks just cracks me up. I think it really makes you a bad person to care about aesthetics so much on a machine like a downhill bike, seriously.


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## bighitboy (May 16, 2004)

I got a few runs down Plattekill this weekend on the frame, very impressed from what I was expecting (team mates are running the frame). There is no flex in the rear, it is the stiffest single pivot I have ever ridden. Although it feels short, it is super responsive to rider input, it will hop, turn, and bound over any obstacle so easily. The two builds my team mates have put together are 36.5 and 38. Full coil, good DH spec (true dh). The bike is quite impressive, it is designed to hop and go over obstacles rather than plow em down.

Secondly, it looks much better in person, but again, looks dont win a DH race.

~Rj


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

dhtahoe said:


> So what about the pivots on the links? I count three pivots. Please explain. Better yet lets go full engineer. How many arms are in that design? Because from an engineering standpoint that is really what matters. I count two the swing arm and the linkage.


*sigh*

Everyone say it again. A structural 4-bar CAN be a behavioral single-pivot.


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

Gemini2k05 said:


> Lol, people *****ing about bike's looks just cracks me up. I think it really makes you a bad person to care about aesthetics so much on a machine like a downhill bike, seriously.


Personally, I think it looks really cool...


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

I think it looks like an optimized strong lightweight DH bike.


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## Jim Mac (Jun 29, 2004)

I rode the F Bomb yesterday.....now I really, really want one! In comparison to the R9 (I own an '07), it pedals more efficiently, sprints amazingly well and the lighter build makes it easier to 'throw around' for a lack of a better term - more 'poppable' over obstacles.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

I don't like the way the bike looks but it feels real good when you are on it. I had a very long chat with Frank on Saturday night while we were burning pork chops on the grill, he is very excited about this frame to say the least.


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

dhtahoe said:


> So what about the pivots on the links? I count three pivots. Please explain. Better yet lets go full engineer. How many arms are in that design? Because from an engineering standpoint that is really what matters. I count two the swing arm and the linkage.


It's a linkage driven single pivot, or fuax bar suspension. Four bar is a Horst link bike.


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

DHgnaR said:


> It's a linkage driven single pivot, or fuax bar suspension. Four bar is a Horst link bike.


Ojai already pointed it out above. A faux bar is a four bar. A horst link is also a four bar. Four bar does not mean horst link, it means there are four moving pieces in the equation, generally chainstay, seatstay, upper link, shock. Also works for short link designs like VPP, DW, Maestro, etc. Lower link (basically a really short chainstay), rear triangle (seatstay), upper link, shock.


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## ExploZiv (Mar 10, 2005)

blender said:


> da truth!
> 
> truth again!
> 
> damn it hurts...


yep!


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## Shepherd Wong (Apr 24, 2005)

I like the looks. It looks like it means business!


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## KillerSloth (Apr 21, 2008)

I don't like the looks of the raw one (almost looks cheap, even though I like raw), but the black one looks amazing!


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

I just grabbed the last frame from the production run.


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## tonyl11 (Aug 31, 2005)

Was up at highland this friday and saturday and spent some time with the guys from Sinister. 

Bruce and Frank were there ripping it up on the f-bombs. (insane builds) and there was a couple of younger kids ripping them up. Holy crap were they fast......

Frank and Bruce are totally down to earth and they would take the time to talk to you about anything about the bikes and life in general! 

That says someting about the company and the type of bikes they build. 

Plus, did anyone see the video on youtube of Frank stnading on the F-bomb? That is hands down the stiffest rear triangle I have ever seen.......


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Yes, Frank is one of the most grounded guys in the industry.

Yes, that frame is psycho stiff...if you get up close with one, try pushing down on the end of the crank spindle with your foot (sideways) as hard as you can and watch the back end.


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## tozovr (Jul 26, 2006)

tonyl11 said:


> Was up at highland this friday and saturday and spent some time with the guys from Sinister.
> 
> Bruce and Frank were there ripping it up on the f-bombs. (insane builds) and there was a couple of younger kids ripping them up. Holy crap were they fast......
> 
> ...


Dude, trying to keep up with Max is a full time job! I was doing EVERYTHING I could and noooo chance!


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## verticult (Jan 18, 2005)

I don't think I will be keeping up with Max for too much longer. The last time may have been two weeks ago. 
I have to agree that many of todays bike are pretty sweet looking. I have to admit that I have made purchase decisions based on a visual impression. My tastes in racing equipment lean towards "machine" or "device". Function drives the design in performance machinery in my mind. I am not able to build a bike that is shaped like a ladies razor, no sense in designing one. 

It's interesting that fans of this bike have the " I looked, I looked again, I am considering, I tried it and liked , I talked to the designer, I have owned other sinister products" etc. I am very pleased that many riders have expectations beyond initial impression and carefully consider our bikes. Thank you.


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## btf95 (Dec 29, 2004)

:thumbsup: Gavin placed 12TH on a F-Bomb at the US Open :thumbsup:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/mtb.php?id=mtb/2009/may09/usopen09/usopen092


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## btf95 (Dec 29, 2004)

couple pics :thumbsup:


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## Techfreak (Feb 17, 2005)

I am a SP fan, so I won't bother with all the "its not a DW/FSR/VPP/Maestro/AVP/whatever" stuff. That bike just looks fast. Knowing first hand how well Frank makes bikes, I'm really wanting to try one out.


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## Nut! (Nov 2, 2007)

Ok, black does look sexy.


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## tozovr (Jul 26, 2006)

Techfreak said:


> I am a SP fan, so I won't bother with all the "its not a DW/FSR/VPP/Maestro/AVP/whatever" stuff. That bike just looks fast. Knowing first hand how well Frank makes bikes, I'm really wanting to try one out.


Right on.
At the end of the day, any advantage, or _disadvantage_ of a particular design is ALWAYS tempered with that of rider ability. If you are just a "good" rider even the coolest of all gadgets won't make you great. If you are Sam Hill, you are just going to keep winning.


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## aixelsyd (Apr 21, 2005)

The bike looks great Bruce :thumbsup:


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## chrisaperk (Feb 25, 2012)

*Sinister 6.3*

I am trying to find out more information about this bike.

It is a Ironhorse Sinister 6.3 29" MTB. Anyone got any info? I bought it and it seems awesome...


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Awesome is subjective.

I particularly like the fork being on backwards.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

chrisaperk said:


> I am trying to find out more information about this bike.
> 
> It is a Ironhorse Sinister 6.3 29" MTB. Anyone got any info? I bought it and it seems awesome...


"Seems awesome" compared to what? 
You'd probably have more luck getting info from the Iron Horse or the 29er forum. This is a 3 year old thread about a bike from Sinister, not I.H..


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## chrisaperk (Feb 25, 2012)

Thank you very much for pointing that out.. When I got the bike the top wasn't tight. I guess that is why. Its fixed now.. Again thank you.


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## dankist4x4 (Jun 26, 2006)

Edit: Oops


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