# Klein Serial # identification



## DowntownSF (Jun 13, 2005)

Can anyone elaborate on klein serial number identification. I know that if it's located below the bottom bracket it's a 90+, but does anyone know what specific sequences go with which models. Or maybe we could list our models and years and pick out the pattern.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Post Your Number and We Can Decode It*

If your number is under the BB is realtively easy to translate.


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## noslogan (Jan 21, 2004)

*it starts to get tough*

as the Kleins get closer to being Shreks.
Mid 90s are something like this:
21T1196123. 
21 are Klein inches.
T is "Attitude"
11 is month of productoin
96 is the year
123 is number of the bike off the production line.
I think.

When the S# gets to be two lines I get confused. I do tend to understand things 10 years after they've become irrelevent.


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## RobynC (Feb 14, 2004)

On my 88 Pinnacle Elite it's stamped into the frame under the rear dropout:

letter+number+number+letter


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## DowntownSF (Jun 13, 2005)

noslogan said:


> as the Kleins get closer to being Shreks.
> Mid 90s are something like this:
> 21T1196123.
> 21 are Klein inches.
> ...


Thanks for the info, that helps a lot. "T is 'attitude'" Do you know what the other letters equal?


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## noslogan (Jan 21, 2004)

*What he said*



DowntownSF said:


> Thanks for the info, that helps a lot. "T is 'attitude'" Do you know what the other letters equal?


Post the seriaI number. I don't know about the Rascal S#. I aSSume that the Rascal should be similar to my description earlier.


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## DowntownSF (Jun 13, 2005)

it's an "L"


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## DowntownSF (Jun 13, 2005)

*I just read*

I just read in another post that "X"=adroit "T"=attitude "P"=pulse, so "L"for rasCAL sounds reasonable


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## RonSonic (Jan 8, 2005)

*On my Rascal...*

The SN is on the dropout, just the letter "R" thee digits and the Klein "K" logo stamp.

Ron


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2005)

RonSonic said:


> The SN is on the dropout, just the letter "R" thee digits and the Klein "K" logo stamp.
> 
> Ron


that is an early Rascal then (1990 or 1991). they stamped the number into the bb shell from 1992 on. in 1992 the frame size was not included yet and the SN started with the letter. before 1992 they were on the rear dropouts and those SNs do not tell much. only the letter indicates the model but that usually is obvious anyhow. i have a Rascal that in reality is a repainted Top Gun, SN starts with TG. would not have known that without the SN.

does anyone know which letter designates the Fervor?

Carsten


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

Carsten said:


> that is an early Rascal then (1990 or 1991). they stamped the number into the bb shell from 1992 on. in 1992 the frame size was not included yet and the SN started with the letter. before 1992 they were on the rear dropouts and those SNs do not tell much. only the letter indicates the model but that usually is obvious anyhow. i have a Rascal that in reality is a repainted Top Gun, SN starts with TG. would not have known that without the SN.
> 
> does anyone know which letter designates the Fervor?
> 
> Carsten


The fervor was famous for that black and green splatter paint job although i have seen the rascal painted that color too. I have a frame in this color of the one inch headtube variety.
It doesnt appear any model decals were ever applied but i cant be certain. The bb says it was made in the 10th month of 93 and it has an L.


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## 1988Stumpjumper (Mar 7, 2016)

*" Green Nebula " was the Klein paint job....*



jasonwa2 said:


> The fervor was famous for that black and green splatter paint job although i have seen the rascal painted that color too. I have a frame in this color of the one inch headtube variety.
> It doesnt appear any model decals were ever applied but i cant be certain. The bb says it was made in the 10th month of 93 and it has an L.


The Fervor was painted a green splatter style paint job that
was called " Green Nebula " , still one of my all time favorites...


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## jharpphoto (Mar 24, 2018)

can anyone help me identify my Klein Attitude Comp's vintage
serial # 20H 0700
WTU 1333951

this is how the number is on the BB


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## Cleetus Highcat (Sep 7, 2020)

*Attitude Horizon Linear Fade*

Hey,

Serial number is only AA22. What does this tell me?

Thanks in advance for any and all replies. Will check online catalogs.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

A lot can be determined by posting a picture of the bike, MC1/MC2. etc, but all I can tell from this is that it might be a 1991 model based on the serial number. I'm not sure if they did Horizon in that year or not, I'd have to look it up in the catalog but google the online catalogs and see if horizon for that year or not and you'll have your answer.


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## zika (Sep 12, 2020)

Just got a Rascal, new to thread, was wondering if someone could help with the serial number. It is TG882 with Klein logo after. On rear dropout. Nothing on bottom bracket. I understand that this means it’s a Top Gun frame but any idea of year or other data? It’s pink/black fade, will try to post pic. Thanks!


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

I've corresponded with the OP and I think the answer, is it a Top Gun or not, depends on definition.

Top Guns only came out in 1989. There may have been a few frames produced in 1990 as Top Guns but were converted to the Rascal name after a threat from a trademark lawsuit from a moronic movie studio. So, it that a Top Gun because of the intent of the original plans? 

The paint on that frame is from the 1991 model year, that's absolute. So, did an owner have it sent back in 1991 to be repainted? 

I find it unlikely that a frame produced in late 1989 (for the 1990 model year) that may have been produced just as the lawsuit was introduced, was kept around for a whole year, sitting there waiting to be stripped and repainted when Klein was selling everything they produced and waiting lists were common. I was on a waiting list for an 90 Attitude, when production was delayed time and time again, and got tired of waiting and asked about a Rascal, which wasn't available either. So did this frame sit around for that long when they were short of frames to start with?

Really, Top Guns and Rascals are the same except in name. The serial number 0x882, which is in hex, would convert to the 2178th frame produced for that year, so probably later in the production run, based on most serial numbers I've seen, whatever the actual year.

I won't pay the extra $1k that people ask for them and wouldn't give a frame extra value based on a serial number.

In the end, it's hard to say.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Plenty of rascals had the TG serial. I'd guess a 90 frame. You can cross reference the year a bit with the Shimano date codes stamped on various parts. Look for a 2 letter code. Should help date it assuming it's stock.

The rascal decal points to a 90-91 though.


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## zika (Sep 12, 2020)

Really helpful thank you both for taking the time to respond. Really enjoying my first Klein and will hopefully post some
new pics once I get it cleaned up, and then make it mess again riding.


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## JeffHughes (Oct 3, 2020)

*Help!*

Hey there 
I have a Klein Comp Mtn Bike from Uni days (1991-1994). Purchased personally in Canada (Hamilton Ont) and I am in Australia now. I am sadly selling due to a bad broken leg injury. 
I have had purchasers tell me it is not a Klein that the cables on ALL Kleins were built in. I know what I bought from a reputable shop. Was there any Kleins built with the cable on the outside or was I ripped off nearly 25 years ago.
Serial number is K 000495 / 4330 23
Love your insight people!


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

JeffHughes said:


> Hey there
> I have a Klein Comp Mtn Bike from Uni days (1991-1994). Purchased personally in Canada (Hamilton Ont) and I am in Australia now. I am sadly selling due to a bad broken leg injury.
> I have had purchasers tell me it is not a Klein that the cables on ALL Kleins were built in. I know what I bought from a reputable shop. Was there any Kleins built with the cable on the outside or was I ripped off nearly 25 years ago.
> Serial number is K 000495 / 4330 23
> Love your insight people!


Sorry to hear about your leg. Best wishes for good healing.

You are going to need five years added to your Uni days. Actual Klein never had a Comp model and never had exposed cables on the bikes. After Trek took over at the end of 95 they tried all sorts of cost cutting methods including confusing naming structure, tubing down grading and external cables. I believe they had external cables from 97 or 98 - 2000, I can confirm the exact years this evening.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Shoo is correct. Your buyers are wrong, it is a Klein but it's more commonly called a "Trek Klein". Trek changed the models as Shoo describes in the 97 model year. They owned Klein in 96 but didn't make substantive changes to the bikes as things were already in the pipeline when they took over.

As far as the serial number from Trek Kleins, as I don't think anyone has documented what is what for them and can't date it via SN. If you really want to know the year, it might help to show pictures of the bike and possibly the components, if original, can indicate the year.


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## balki1980 (Mar 18, 2014)

Hi,my Pinnacle it's stamped into the frame under the dropout
# P888,what year is it?
tnx


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## Ronald Nolet (Mar 2, 2021)

My Klein har the following number: 4027U035TB1
What type of bike is my Klein, and when was it produced?


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## Philboomer (Jun 30, 2021)

Shayne said:


> *Post Your Number and We Can Decode It*
> 
> If your number is under the BB is realtively easy to translate.


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## Philboomer (Jun 30, 2021)

Shayne said:


> *Post Your Number and We Can Decode It*
> 
> If your number is under the BB is realtively easy to translate.


A3C2
This is on what I believe to be an early 90's Attitude.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

It would help to see the rest of the bike as it appears to be green/white/pink paint job which was most common in 1990 but was present in later years, so maybe you can post that too. But based on the serial number it's a 1991 Attitude. A is for "A"ttitude. The 3C2 is a hexedecimal number (base 16 0-9, A-F) which converts into a decimal number would be 962, so it's approximately the 962nd Attitude frame made for the '91 model year. It might have been in the factory the same time my A3F2 (#1010) frame was made.


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## Philboomer (Jun 30, 2021)

pinguwin said:


> It would help to see the rest of the bike as it appears to be green/white/pink paint job which was most common in 1990 but was present in later years, so maybe you can post that too. But based on the serial number it's a 1991 Attitude. A is for "A"ttitude. The 3C2 is a hexedecimal number (base 16 0-9, A-F) which converts into a decimal number would be 962, so it's approximately the 962nd Attitude frame made for the '91 model year. It might have been in the factory the same time my A3F2 (#1010) frame was made.


Thank you for the info. The bike is currently at a shop being gone through, I wanted it ready to ride before I sell it. Here is a photo of it on the stand


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## Philboomer (Jun 30, 2021)

Philboomer said:


> Thank you for the info. The bike is currently at a shop being gone through, I wanted it ready to ride before I sell it. Here is a photo of it on the stand
> View attachment 1937137


The shop just sent this photo from the front fork, is it common for it to have a different number?


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

The fork always has a different number. I wanted to see the fork and since it's the curved Uniklein vs. the mitred fork from 1990, this is absolutely a 1991.


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## Wolverine1094 (Dec 4, 2021)

Greetings, So I have an old Rascal that I got back in the mid 90’s from a guy who built up a frame and then decided to sell. Just for perspective he had about 2K invested, and lots/ all the options like the Mag 21 and flight control stem/bar all color matched to the deep purple/pink frame…and XT components. I got the original paperwork for the bike and it’s all from 1995. I am trying to determine the year and frame size of this bike. The S/N is located on the BB but it’s not corresponding to what I have read earlier in this post. From what I can tell here is the stamp markings: a circle w the top missing with a small k in the middle, R 7 T 0 0 2 5 6 1. Since this does not correlate with what’s been posted I checked it a few times and feel pretty confident that this is it…. Attached are some pics of the bike, etc. It is also for sale in NJ, 99% original, low miles, $1,250


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

The Rascal was only made from 1990-93, after that it became the Fervor. That paint job and logo are from the 1992 model, so I'd go with a '92, not a '95. I'm not sure what the '95 paperwork is all about unless the bike was bought NOS three years after production.

It would be best if you posted a picture of the SN and the paperwork because right now, there is a disconnect. 

The frame size is 20" as Klein measured them but a 17" based on how other manufacturers measured. Personally, $1250 seems a little high for a mag 21 which isn't so maintainable.


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## Wolverine1094 (Dec 4, 2021)

Thanks for the quick help here…gonna need to dig around for the paperwork but what you are saying is plausible…and The frame measures out as a 17“ from c of BB to top of bar So you are spot on with that decoding. Here are a couple pics of the S/N…

As a side Q, the main reason I am selling this bike is because I can’t raise the height of the bars without some major mods…I’m 5’ 10” with average length arms, 30” inseam and the geometry of this bike has me too bent over like I’m on a road bike racing…This whole flight control one piece stem/bars has very little adjustment, I am maxed out in height and it also has quite a long forward measure of over 5” from the top bolt…ideally I need the bars to be about an inch higher than they are now…maybe 1.5”. As I am sure you know, the head tube on this model is a PITA being 1” and a good / light suspension fork is a rare item and very costly…plus I would lose the cool factor of the whole matched paint, etc. and probably spend at least $500 on a fork, stem and bars to get the geometry I want…or think I want.

I found a 1997 Attitude Comp that is in incredible condition, and has the mods I would do to this bike (I’m not altering this bike from original for several reasons…it would be kinda stupid)…1x11 drivetrain, newer light SID race fork, and overall quite light (below 22 pounds w/o any carbon stuff) etc. Plus this 1997 has the normal sized BB and a 1 1/8” head tube which kicks ass over my weird early 90’s Rascal. The issue is that this 97’ Attitude looks like it’s a size S frame….but it’s so very close in measures to my 17” Rascal…and I think I can get a stem and bars that will go up and out where I need them. 
BUT at the end of the day do I want to drop $600+ on a 25 year old design that has 26” wheels…it would be interesting to set it up as a mullet…has anyone on here gone to a 27.5” front wheel on a set up like this?


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

What you say makes perfect sense about fit and altering the original parts to make yourself comfortable on it. Just a FYI, but this bike was sized for you back in the day. That was the desired fit of that time and 5' 10" (1.78m) was spot on for this sized frame. 

But that doesn't matter today as it doesn't make you want ride it now. It's good you want to keep it original and rather than try to make something work that probably isn't going to work. FWIW, my main modern MTB is 27.5 and you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands before I'll go to 29" wheels.

The other thing about the year is that if it was a 95 model and they got special paint, it's unlikely that they would have gotten the 92 logo (the stylized Rascal font). There are frames which have paint colors that were used in years gone by but they were done with the logo fonts of that year. There may be exceptions to this but I am not aware of them.

For us, dropping $600 on a 30 (not 25) year old frame with 26" wheels is, well, it's what we do .


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## Wolverine1094 (Dec 4, 2021)

I got one more for you….and thanks for your help BTW…this is a burnt sand color 97 Attitude Comp and I am looking to determine the frame size and also confirm the year…although it does match up with the catalogue. S/N is 1096287. We think


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## Wolverine1094 (Dec 4, 2021)

Just trying to confirm the frame size on this Attitude Comp…it’s either a S or M…probably a small.


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## 5Deep (22 d ago)

Howdy,

Sorry to revive an older post but I'm interested in your thoughts.

Looking for advice from Klein experts on identifying a recently purchased early '90s Klein Pinnacle (I think).

Purchased from the original owner who described it as a late 80s or early 90s Pinnacle. There is no "model" decal, only the "Klein" decal on the downtube.

Some identifying features that may help:

Serial number stamped on bottom of rear dropouts:
Non drive side - Klein logo R5671, all spaced closely together
Drive side - 1 35, spaced about 1" apart

Spinner fork with 1" steerer tube.
Mission Control bar and Stem
Square chain stays with NO chain suck thingy or mounting holes.
Rear cantilevers on seat stays.
Internal cable routing
7spd Deore XT drivetrain and indexed shifters
Based on what I read in other threads on this forum:

No chain suck device - introduced in '92 so likely prior to '92.
Serial has "R" - in other posts this was described as potentially a Rascal model? Catalogs usually show Pinnacle without the model decal. Could it be a Rascal without a decal?
The "Klein" decal has same design/font as the bikes in the '89 catalog, but the only "89 with a MC bar and stem was Top Gun and the XT was only 6 speed at the time.

This bike has features from "89, '90 and '91, but Pinnacle or Rascal?

Thanks and best regards,


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

It's definitely a Pinnacle of the vintage listed. Look at the post by Balki1980 and then the one by Wolverine. Notice how the dropouts on Wolverine's bike are facing the rear, that's indicative of Rascal/Attitude/Adroit. The dropouts on Balki's bike and yours are slotted in vertically, which is what the Pinnacle did. 

The color is pretty generic, so it could have been a number of years, I'd have to look in a catalog and I'm about to leave for a family function (wish me luck!). Same with the serial number, maybe someone can chime in on that.


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## 5Deep (22 d ago)

Thanks Pinguwin, (I have to ask, from a Bugs Bunny cartoon?)

A keen eye on your part. I appreciate the info.

Good luck at your family function. I have similar with in-laws tomorrow.

Regards,


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

5Deep said:


> Good luck at your family function. I have similar with in-laws tomorrow.


Gack....just got back. Rotten time. I have a thing where I'm not involved with anything relating to food for various historical reasons. Yet, I ended up involved and then my sister asked, "Who did that? Why would anyone do that?" and I blew up and left. I'd rather be dealing with bikes. Hope your time tomorrow goes better than this evening did. 

I'll see if I can narrow anything down as to the year.


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## DonaldDuck (Feb 5, 2019)

it's an 89. First year with cantilever brakes, last year with R serial numbers. Frame #1649. The 5 after the R and the 35 indicate 135mm dropout spacing instead of 130mm.


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## 5Deep (22 d ago)

Thanks DonaldDuck!


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