# Chris King or Hedley



## jmmiller (May 9, 2005)

So ive decided im going to just replace my rear hub rather than goof with replacing the freehub on my deore hub. Now the question is to go with the more expensive Christ King hub, or a hedley hub. Ive heard great things about both, but my question is, can i jack on it going up hill for a long time, about 2 to 3 years without it falling apart on me like this deore hub has twice in 7 months. I don;t mind spending the money on the Christ King if its evident that its better than the hedley, but ive read theres 72 contact points on the Chris King, whereas there are 108 on the hedley, Now im under the impression that 108 is better. Am i right or am i wrong? Also the hedley is supposed to have a titanium freehub body, and that seems like a pretty decent selling point for someone with alot of heft like myself, i weigh 260 pounds. So which one should i shell out the cash for. Any information, experience, etc is hugely appreciated, thanks very much ahead of time.

Romans 8:31


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## demo_slug (Jan 1, 2005)

jmmiller said:


> So ive decided im going to just replace my rear hub rather than goof with replacing the freehub on my deore hub.


good move. Either hub.

i roll the kings. On 2 bikes. I've also seen both apart. and road on hadleys some. I was pushin 265lb for a while.

the king has faster engagement. And its ring drive is super simple. Best way to discribe it is it locks like a hole saw. When its engaged all 72 teeth connect.

Get the HD version of the king. You get fun bolts and stainless cassette body.

I have the normal and the HD version. Both are great.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

jmmiller said:


> ...hedley...any information...is hugely appreciated


Hedley is the corrupt politician from Blazing Saddles.  I have neither hub, but when I build new wheels I'm leaning towards the Hadley DH hub, because it's plenty strong and cheaper than the King. Sorry I'm of no help. 

Patrick


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## Ventanarama (Dec 10, 2001)

demo_slug said:


> good move. Either hub.
> 
> i roll the kings. On 2 bikes. I've also seen both apart. and road on hadleys some. I was pushin 265lb for a while.
> 
> ...


Actually that's incorrect, the Hadley 108pt has faster engagement than King. I would agree that the design of the mechanism itself is superior on the King, but it's not faster. 
Larry 
Mountain High Cyclery 
[email protected]


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## saba (Sep 30, 2004)

Hedley Lamar LOL


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## jmmiller (May 9, 2005)

say i didn;t get the HD version of the King hub, i can upgrade to that by getting the fun bolts and the stainless steel cassette body later correct?


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## jmmiller (May 9, 2005)

ok so im not really concerned with which is faster, im more concerned with which has more backbone, So which is tougher, by the sound of your post the design of the king is superior, so is it all around stronger than the hedley?


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

saba said:


> Hedley Lamar LOL


Hey, that was Mel Brooks himself, wasn't it?


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## demo_slug (Jan 1, 2005)

Ventanarama said:


> Actually that's incorrect, the Hadley 108pt has faster engagement than King. [/email]


i realy don't understand why people think that. is there some trials version of the hadley that I haven't seen? is there a 2 year onld version that has less engagement?

riddle me this... if you are coasting, every click/tick noise that comes out of your hub is a point of engagement. deore you get 16 clicks per revalution. you get more with a hadley, you get even more with a king.

hadley is tick tick tick
CK is buzz


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## SuperBad (Jan 5, 2004)

Guyechka said:


> Hey, that was Mel Brooks himself, wasn't it?


No it was Harvey Corman.


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## Ventanarama (Dec 10, 2001)

demo_slug said:


> i realy don't understand why people think that. is there some trials version of the hadley that I haven't seen? is there a 2 year onld version that has less engagement?
> 
> riddle me this... if you are coasting, every click/tick noise that comes out of your hub is a point of engagement. deore you get 16 clicks per revalution. you get more with a hadley, you get even more with a king.
> 
> ...


Yes, Hadley in the past (still can get them this way actually) was doing 36pt engagement. The ones I'm referring to have 108 engagement points vs. 72 on the King.

Larry


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

*Hadley internals*

Here you can see the 3 engagement pawls on the hadley and the 108 teeth on the hub body. I love my Hadleys- the only thing I wish they would address is the orange seal you see in the picture. It could be better but as long as you do some periodic maintenance you won't have any problems whatsoever.


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

jmmiller said:


> So ive decided im going to just replace my rear hub rather than goof with replacing the freehub on my deore hub. Now the question is to go with the more expensive Christ King hub, or a hedley hub. Ive heard great things about both, but my question is, can i jack on it going up hill for a long time, about 2 to 3 years without it falling apart on me like this deore hub has twice in 7 months. I don;t mind spending the money on the Christ King if its evident that its better than the hedley, but ive read theres 72 contact points on the Chris King, whereas there are 108 on the hedley, Now im under the impression that 108 is better. Am i right or am i wrong? Also the hedley is supposed to have a titanium freehub body, and that seems like a pretty decent selling point for someone with alot of heft like myself, i weigh 260 pounds. So which one should i shell out the cash for. Any information, experience, etc is hugely appreciated, thanks very much ahead of time.
> 
> Romans 8:31


The Kings use a ring drive set up where there are 72 teeth on each ring. Hadley's have 108 teeth but still have only 3 pawls in them. I have a King on my soft tale and a Hadley on my FS and I know the King engages faster. I'm trying to upload pictures of the internals of both but it's not working at the moment... If you want you can PM me an email address and I'll send them to you.

I think both are about equally strong so I don't think you'd go wrong with either. Kings are better in my book and if you ride in a very dusty or wet area then I would say get the Kings because the seals on them are better. But the cost of the Kings is a lot more than the Hadleys. Both will require periodic maintenance- just opening them up once or twice a year, cleaning and relubing them. The King has an alloy freehub body so you'll have to use an XT or XTR cogset unless you want to get the King with the SS body- Hadley uses a Titanium body but is switching to SS themselves.

Again- I don't think you can go wrong with either. The biggest differences are price, tolerances, and engagement system. The King is quicker but a lot more expensive.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

SuperBad said:


> No it was Harvey Corman.


Bingo, we have a winner (#55).


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## demo_slug (Jan 1, 2005)

Hadley is a 36 tooth. This 108 stuff is just 3 pawls off set so that only one can engage. 36X3 = 108
That is the trials hub. And a Clyde should not be using it.

My buddy got burned by this misconception.


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

*you're right!*



PCinSC said:


> Bingo, we have a winner (#55).


I don't know how I confused them. I was thinking of Mel playing the governor (or was it the mayor?). He was the indian chief as well.

How could have gotten confused on my Blazing Saddles trivia??


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Whatever....*



demo_slug said:


> Hadley is a 36 tooth. This 108 stuff is just 3 pawls off set so that only one can engage. 36X3 = 108
> That is the trials hub. And a Clyde should not be using it.
> 
> My buddy got burned by this misconception.


I've been riding a Hadley on a SS for several years. They're great hubs. There's no reason in the world why a Clyde shouldn't ride one.

If they're good enough for tandems, they're good enough for us.


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

Ken in KC said:


> I've been riding a Hadley on a SS for several years. They're great hubs. There's no reason in the world why a Clyde shouldn't ride one.
> 
> If they're good enough for tandems, they're good enough for us.


I agree- In fact with 108 teeth there is far less chance of a pawl slipping a tooth and skipping which will destroy a hub as quick as anything.


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## demo_slug (Jan 1, 2005)

Ken in KC said:


> I've been riding a Hadley on a SS for several years. They're great hubs. There's no reason in the world why a Clyde shouldn't ride one.
> 
> If they're good enough for tandems, they're good enough for us.


dude the 36 tooth hadley is tough as nails. I was talking about the 108.

just look at the picture rocky posted. the hub shell only has 36 teeth.


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## ken50397 (Mar 23, 2004)

*Ring dDrive King is better*

I have gone through many many shimano hubs all through their levels. I bought a Hope with 36 teeth like the one posted; I broke it two times (great CS) before selling it to a lighter rider. The problem with pawls is sometimes they all don't engage. And if they are saying 108 engagement points with 36 teeth, then that means only one engages at a time by design. The pawls don't slip, they shear.

After 4 years of breaking hubs, I ponied up for the King HD a year ago. I can now ride into the woods for ten miles and not worry about making it out. The King is all 72 engaged or none (I have not experienced the none, but I have heard some have). I put about 900 miles on the King last year that would have destroyed 4 or 5 other hubs.

Going with the HD out of the box is far cheaper than upgraded to the SS axle, Fun Bolts and SS drive shell.

I have spent far more than the 409 with broken hubs and lost time on pawl designs.

Think of their ring drive as a clutch plate with teeth, because that is what it is. I considered Hugi or DT swiss, but they only have 16 engagement teeth. The 72 is fantastic and you will notice when resetting over obsticles.

Sorry for the long opinion, but I feel very strongly about the Kings so far. And if you have broken pawl designs, there IS a difference. If you break axles? I can't comment, but if you knock teeth off, stay away from pawls.

Ken.

UOTE=demo_slug]dude the 36 tooth hadley is tough as nails. I was talking about the 108.

just look at the picture rocky posted. the hub shell only has 36 teeth.[/QUOTE]


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## jmmiller (May 9, 2005)

ken50397 said:


> I have gone through many many shimano hubs all through their levels. I bought a Hope with 36 teeth like the one posted; I broke it two times (great CS) before selling it to a lighter rider. The problem with pawls is sometimes they all don't engage. And if they are saying 108 engagement points with 36 teeth, then that means only one engages at a time by design. The pawls don't slip, they shear.
> 
> After 4 years of breaking hubs, I ponied up for the King HD a year ago. I can now ride into the woods for ten miles and not worry about making it out. The King is all 72 engaged or none (I have not experienced the none, but I have heard some have). I put about 900 miles on the King last year that would have destroyed 4 or 5 other hubs.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## cherrybomber (Mar 25, 2004)

*too funny!*



PCinSC said:


> Hedley is the corrupt politician from Blazing Saddles.  I have neither hub, but when I build new wheels I'm leaning towards the Hadley DH hub, because it's plenty strong and cheaper than the King. Sorry I'm of no help.
> 
> Patrick


i thought i was the only one thinking that until i saw all the replies..

i am of no help either.. but i AM dying for a pair of CKs. what's the HD version about?


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## Ventanarama (Dec 10, 2001)

cherrybomber said:


> i thought i was the only one thinking that until i saw all the replies..
> 
> i am of no help either.. but i AM dying for a pair of CKs. what's the HD version about?


The Heavy Duty version comes with a stronger axle (and is bolt-on, but you can also get quick-release adapters for it), and a stainless steel freehub body.

Larry 
Mountain High Cyclery 
[email protected]


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## Paco Finn (Mar 24, 2004)

I am not a clyde but do own Hadleys w/108. I too was concerned with only one pawl engaged at one time but the relationship to another mfg. shearing pawls and Hadley is not valid nor is it for ring drives vs. pawls. Each system strengths and weakness is based on design and tolerances. A correctly design pawl system will handle more load than ANYTHING any clyde could muster - your chain and/or sprockets would fail way before the pawls. We use a single pawl for a safety device for a suspended moving beam that weighs near 20,000 #'s and we design in a safety factor of 5! But I have also seen similar systems that would easily fail with a ring drive system or a poorly degined /built pawl system. There are just too many factors to consider including but not limited to: material, contact area, contact angle, pwal engaged angle,diameter,clearnaces,etc. We run 500 + hp motors with 32 point "clutches" but we also have 4 point as well.

King and Hadley (or Hedley if you prefer) both make great products that have been designed exceptionally well and are mfg. with precision. Both are made in the states and both stand behind there products. Make your decision on which one you like the best as there is no bad decision with either one, the important thing is that you get the right COLOR!

Nate


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

*King internals*

Here is the engagement (ring drive) on the Kings.


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## the Inbred (Jan 13, 2004)

demo_slug said:


> dude the 36 tooth hadley is tough as nails. I was talking about the 108.
> 
> just look at the picture rocky posted. the hub shell only has 36 teeth.


i've seen Kings destroyed by 150lb riders.

i have a set of King SS wheels, and had a disc hub for a while. my next wheelset will be Hadley. maily because of the price. i consider both hubs to be of similar quality (though, King's Ring Drive is quite different), and the weight difference between a HD hub and a standard (108pt) Hadley with a 10mm TA is not enough for me to care about. it comes down to price. Hadley HUBSET...what, like $350? King rear hub now $400, with, i believe, another price increase at the end of March?

that makes the decision fairly easy for me.

and someone correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems to me that Hadley has built their reputation around/ by downhill riders, and word of mouth...i think that speaks tons.


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## demo_slug (Jan 1, 2005)

the Inbred said:


> i've seen Kings destroyed by 150lb riders.
> 
> .


i've been destroyed by 150lb riders 

I don't like the king price increase, its lame, i don't care to float king's hippie tree hugging.

I'm sure that the single pawl enguagment 108pt hadleys live up to the rep that the 36pt 3 pawl hubs earned. and I sure hope that knowbody else buys a 36pt thinking it was a 108pt.

and rocky your king pictures are missing the ring drive. do you got more pictures?


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

demo_slug said:


> i've been destroyed by 150lb riders
> 
> and rocky your king pictures are missing the ring drive. do you got more pictures?


Not without taking the bearings out and I don't have a need to do that at the moment but you can see the rings themselves here:

http://www.chrisking.com/tech/tech_movies/hshell_r_assy.mov


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## GGAllen (Jul 18, 2004)

demo_slug said:


> ..and I sure hope that knowbody else buys a 36pt thinking it was a 108pt.


It _is_ 108 points of engagement per revolution though. The hub shell doesn't have to have 108 ratchet indentations to accomplish this.

You may have a *mechanical* argument about the longevity of such a mechanism as only a _*single*_ point is ever engaged on the Hadley 108 as opposed to Kings 72 contact points all engaging simultaneously.. but that doesn't make it "faster". In fact, it's *not possible* for a King hub to engage faster than a Hadley 108.

BTW. Those 72 simultaneous engagement points don't come for free. The Ring Drive system lends itself to a substantial amount of drag when compared to a ratchet/pawl mechanism, e.g., one "click" is equivalent to _*all 72 engagement points engaging at once*_. Conversely, on an R/P mechanism, one "click" represents a single engagement.

I'm in the Clyde category and am known for snappin' chains and turning wheels into stop sign shapes. Two years and more than a half dozen "resort" trips, as well as countless other sessions and I have yet to damage my Hadley 108pt.

*I'm with you on the Hippie King hype thing though.* 

Just one mans experience.


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## demo_slug (Jan 1, 2005)

GGAllen said:


> It _is_ 108 points of engagement per revolution though. The hub shell doesn't have to have 108 ratchet indentations to accomplish this.
> 
> You may have a *mechanical* argument about the longevity of such a mechanism as only a _*single*_ point is ever engaged on the Hadley 108 as opposed to Kings 72 contact points all engaging simultaneously.. but that doesn't make it "faster". In fact, it's *not possible* for a King hub to engage faster than a Hadley 108.
> 
> ...


don't get me wrong. I capitulate. I did not know that the 108pt was so widely available. it would help if they had a website but  , looking at rockys pictures of the Hadley, the single pawl looks strong.

all the Hadleys I've ever seen have been 36pts.

When I said"

..and I sure hope that knowbody else buys a 36pt thinking it was a 108pt."

I know one guy that thought he was getting quicker engagement then king and was plenty mad when it was a 36pt hub, but he still likes his hubs.


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## ken50397 (Mar 23, 2004)

*Ring Drive - Pawl Type*

I understand that pawls can be very strong. As far as the pawls looking strong in the picture, I could have shown pictures that look almost identical, but were of a Hope Bulb(but with teeth sheared off). Unless I saw some speck how the pawl type designed by Hadley is in some way stronger than the Hope that I shredded twice, I am will still recomend the King that I have not been able to shred. And when I looked at the damage in the Bulb, it was not three teeth sheared, but just one. But in the unlikely event that I do shred one, the internal ringdrive is fully removable without replacing the hub body.

But the Hadley, but I have gone from breaking hubs at the freehub mechanism to not breaking it. I did that with a King.

I am curious as to how many people have shredded the hubs and then bought a Hadley and had no other problems. I would like to hear those stories.

Good luck with whichever one.

Ken.


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

GGAllen said:


> It _is_ 108 points of engagement per revolution though. The hub shell doesn't have to have 108 ratchet indentations to accomplish this.
> 
> You may have a *mechanical* argument about the longevity of such a mechanism as only a _*single*_ point is ever engaged on the Hadley 108 as opposed to Kings 72 contact points all engaging simultaneously.. but that doesn't make it "faster". In fact, it's *not possible* for a King hub to engage faster than a Hadley 108.
> 
> ...


The pawl engagement spring on the Hadleys is about the strongest I've ever seen and they are machined precisely enough that all 3 pawls do engage at the same time. The pawl engagement is strong enough I can feel it in my handle bars when I'm going the right speed.

Actually the King engagement is quicker. The 72 teeth engage with every 5 degrees of wheel rotation (360/72) whereas the Hadleys engage with every 10 degrees of wheel rotation (360/36). I just checked this on both and it's true. But will most people notice that? I doubt it.

As far as the free running drag the Kings do have more but not much more once they are broken in. It does take a while to break them in though but they actually get better with age.

I have both and love both and think either would work ver well for a Clyde. To me it comes down to price and what you want. I just built up a Pewter set of CKs for a guy this weekend and that is one cool color- but he paid top dollar for them. A set of Hadleys would have worked just as well but they didn't have the color he wanted. Plus the guy rides lots of stream crossings so he wanted the better seals on the CKs.

How sweet is it though that was can have legitimate discussion about both hubs that abeit they both have pros and cons seem to be roughly equal to each other? Gone are the days of only Shimano and $CK$ as your options. I for one am happy there's another hub available thats light, tough, and doesn't explode.


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## Paco Finn (Mar 24, 2004)

Not trying to be an arse but your comparison of Hadley to Hope is not correct. Just because both use pawls does not make them the same. The factthat only one tooth on your Hopes sheared shows there was more to this than meets the eye. I am too tired and have reports to finish to even get into a statics/dynamics lesson w/ strengths and weakness of each let alone how robust each design is off of paper.

Kings are great hubs and I am glad they are working for you but don't say that Hadleys are inferior because you broke your Hopes and because you don't have Hadleys. 

Some one please throw a torque wrench on each until they fail - but wait the torque wrench uses pawls too! Oh the humanity!

Nate


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

stealth hubs are what you want. www.trueprecision.net ...


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## jmmiller (May 9, 2005)

so i meant hadley my bad, it took me all this time to realize what all ya'll were talking about on the side of the main discussion, thanks for alerting me to my ignorance


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

jmmiller said:


> so i meant hadley my bad, it took me all this time to realize what all ya'll were talking about on the side of the main discussion, thanks for alerting me to my ignorance


No worries, and I certainly don't think it was ignorance, just a typo that we could have a little fun with.  So, amongst the bickering about pawls and points of engagement did you ever get an answer to your question?  

Patrick


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## jmmiller (May 9, 2005)

yeah man umm im still waiting for my bike shop to call me back, along with destroying a brand new freehub i blew a seal on my fork i hit a drop good it was sweet though. So as soon as they get that back from marzocchi theyre gonna open up the freehub and call me back, meanwhile ive been watching freeride videos chomping at the bit. Anyway im gonna just have em build me a new wheel i was planning on it anyway but now i know what hub i want, im gonna stay away from the shimano saint like i originally intended and go with probabley a king, just because i have the money now and then id never have a reason to upgrade it ever again. I figure it would be an investment into my next bike, starting with the rear wheel. Im riding a fisher GED with saint cranks and everything else stock so the new wheel would be a nice addition.

Romans 8:31

Oh yeah thanks everybody for your input, it definitely helped me in making a decision.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

jmmiller said:


> I'm gonna stay away from the shimano saint like i originally intended...


Any particular reason your against the Saint. I'm only curious because the Saint rear hub (and derailleur) in an option I'm considering on a new bike.



jmmiller said:


> ...go with probabley a king, just because i have the money now and then id never have a reason to upgrade it ever again.


From what I've heard (well, what I'd heard previously, the posts on this thread just confused me  ) you can't go wrong with the King, if you can swing it $$$.



jmmiller said:


> Im riding a fisher GED with saint cranks and everything else stock so the new wheel would be a nice addition.


How do you like the Fisher? I'm thinking about picking up an Opie (because it's cheap) as a play bike for urban stuff and some DJ. I figure I could upgrade the parts over time as they break. I believe the GED and Opie frames are the same. How do you like the frame?

Patrick


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## emvath (Mar 16, 2004)

jmmiller said:


> Christ King hub, or a hedley hub. Ive heard great things about both, but my question is, can i jack on it going up hill for a long time, about 2 to 3 years without it falling apart on me like this deore hub has twice in 7 months. I don;t mind spending the money on the Christ King if its evident that its better than the hedley,


Yes I'm new here, but I didn't know Jesus made hubs. If he did though I guess I would say to go with those ones. They must be good


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## jmmiller (May 9, 2005)

man ya'll are good at picking out spelling mistakes, thanks for keeping me on my toes. Umm im probabley gonna stay away from shimano freehubs in general, i just kind of grouped the saint hub under that category because when i asked about hubs that were strong no one mentioned it which means one of two things, either no one has ridden it or its not strong enough. The fisher is awesome. Im not sure about the opie, actually i got the GED for half the price of retail because i drove a forklift for trek distribution over the summer. The bike is durable, ive replaced some drive train stuff on it, the crank,chain, cassette, rear wheel (pending). The crank was a funny story my dad actually stripped the crank arm screwing around with it when i wasn;t around. So i just decided to upgrade to the Saint because i knew i intended to ride stuff pretty hard. All in all though being a big guy ive had to just expect to break stuff, slowly perfecting my rig until its completely bomb proof. So im steadily getting closer to that end. And yes, if Christ made hubs i would buy those because He is the King.


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## jmmiller (May 9, 2005)

to actually answer your question, the frame is strong. I weigh 260 pounds and i haven;t had any kind of creaking come out of the bottom braket area. The only interesting thing is the space between the chain rings and the chain stay is exceptionally small and ive had my chain get sucked into that space getting jammed, which can lead to weak spots in your chain. thats happened about 5 times in 7 months but only once where i had to replace the chain and actually could see visible damage done to the chain.It usually only happens when the chain gets kinked up from mud or sand. I haven;t had a problem with it since ive kept my chain lubed. When i get my bike back from the bike shop i can take a picture of it to give you a better view of what im talking about if you want, private message me to remind me.It doesn;t happen very often, and like i said its able to be fixed easily, but id take a look at other freeride hard tails as a result. I dunno though that might be a problem that happens alot on freeride hardtails because the chainstays are set apart so wide to account for tire widths. Like i said remind me on a private message and when i get my bike back ill take a picture and hopefully thatll make things a little clearer.

Romans 8:31


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## ken50397 (Mar 23, 2004)

*King vs. Hadley*

Don't bother with the Statics/Dynamics equations as I have had them too. I know pawl systems can and are very strong. My reference to the Hope was that someone said the Hadley looked very strong in the picture.

I hope (no pun intended) the Hadley is very strong. My point is that I destroyed many hubs the same way jmmiller is and by going with a King the problem went away.

When I originally purchased my Hope it was a toss up between a King and Hope, but the reviews were all very similar, so I went with the cheaper one.

If someone has been breaking hubs weekly and then has not had a problem with the Hadley, let 'em speak, I would like to hear it. I am sorry, but not breaking a Hadley or any other hub doesn't give me the confidence that I will not break a Hadley.

I really didn't want to get into a pissing match over this. My thinking was simple I guess. Heavy riders (clydes) are not the norm for bikes. Why would manufacturers design for them. From my experience, they don't. I went into Trials forums to find out what they were using, because I think I break them like the do; a quick reset and then power. The only one that came shining through was the King. So that is what I ended up with.

I must say though that being design to use just one pawl all the time does sound very interesting, but without people saying they broke others but not the Hadley doesn't give me the confidence. King goes out of their way to tell you how strong their ring drive is and how great the warranty is. I can't even find information on the Hadley. King says they are like three times stronger than other high end hubs on the market. Did I test it? No, but I have not broken it yet.

Sorry for the book and probable confusion, I haven't finished my coffee yet. Hopefully we can just meet on the trail one day and enjoy the ride.

Ken.



Paco Finn said:


> Not trying to be an arse but your comparison of Hadley to Hope is not correct. Just because both use pawls does not make them the same. The factthat only one tooth on your Hopes sheared shows there was more to this than meets the eye. I am too tired and have reports to finish to even get into a statics/dynamics lesson w/ strengths and weakness of each let alone how robust each design is off of paper.
> 
> Kings are great hubs and I am glad they are working for you but don't say that Hadleys are inferior because you broke your Hopes and because you don't have Hadleys.
> 
> ...


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

ken50397 said:


> Don't bother with the Statics/Dynamics equations as I have had them too. I know pawl systems can and are very strong. My reference to the Hope was that someone said the Hadley looked very strong in the picture.
> 
> I hope (no pun intended) the Hadley is very strong. My point is that I destroyed many hubs the same way jmmiller is and by going with a King the problem went away.
> 
> ...


 I don't think people here are bickering- just giving opinions. Actually sometimes a little "spirited discussion" can be a good thing because it makes people more inclined to speak openly about pros and cons of any topic and people are more likely to give talk about personal experience and I think that is what he was looking for. This is a good thread and I don't think anyone has been out of hand here- just loyal to what works for them and thats fine. Check out the political forum sometime- eesh... I've owned Kings for years and never had a problem. I've only had my Hadley for a year and it's been flawless but the jury is still out because I want to know how they work long term.


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## Mattman (Feb 2, 2004)

*I like Hadley*

I have two MTBs one with King and one with Hadley. I like both, I think you have narrowed your choice well. I prefer the Hadley for durability and cost. I have actually had no problems at all with either, I just hear the Hadleys are stronger under hard abuse. Cost is a very real factor, since King's last price increase they are over the top, at least until the competitions prices get closer to that level.


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## SSINGA (Dec 23, 2003)

The Kings work just fine for Clyde use - in my experience.


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

All I know is that I have a 5 yr old set of CK hubs with HD driveshell, 10k miles on them and going, and I'm a solid clyde who refuses to not do climbs and bomber downhills, living in a very rocky bang-it-up on the equipment area (central Texas). These hubs have never let me down, have only needed basic regular maintenance (1xyearly full rebuild by a shop with the right tools, and about quarterly lube cleaning/main by me that takes less than 30 minutes for both hubs).

I think that even with the current (and raising) prices, just on proven reliability and tech alone, I'd buy another CK hubset.


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## Brown_Teeth (Jan 15, 2004)

More than 5 years and 7,000++ miles on my hadley under all sorts of conditions including muddy stream crossings and the hub is great, seals tight and all the maintenance is opening it up every 2000 miles and adding a bit of oil to the pawls after a wipe down. I'm riding 210# on a 36# trail/FR bike, very solid hub and not as noisy/expensive as a KING!


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## jmmiller (May 9, 2005)

6 of one half a dozen the other


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

jmmiller said:


> 6 of one half a dozen the other


True dat


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

*I hurt Kings, I injured Hadleys...*

If you're hurt you can still play...if you're injured...time to call home to momma.

Went through 6 sets of Hadley rear hubs. All warrantied mind you, so I can not fault their customer service. On the last set, one of the three pawls shat/shot through the hub body during a night ride. I thought I busted a spoke--that's what it sounded like. Anyway the bike turned into a busted down partial fixie for the 4mi walk out in the darkness. Fun. Fun. Fun. That was the last time I road them, I built up the warranty rear hub and its awaiting to be installed on jr's Giant. He weighs less than a buck so it should be OK.

The Kings, I've busted them too BUT the worse that's happened is a busted axle out in the field which can be ridden out with some minor gear skipping due to the wheel flexing around on a busted axle. That's the worse and 90% of the time CK warranties it or charges you a few $$ to upgrade to the HD version: Steel cassette carrier, diamond 3 (or is it 4?) axle with donut compression, etc.

So...are you injured or hurt son?


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

*HADLEYS*

I ride DH...........I am 6 foot and 215....My bike weighs 42 pounds....I figure i am rolling with all my body armour and back pack at a weight of 285/290. I ride 4 times a week and sometime 6 times a week....every run I do a succession of drops between 3 feet to 8 feet......for the last 2 years My Hadleys. I doubt many people put that much strain on their bikes.....for me I know CK's are good, but they are not worth the price.........an excellent hub is a Hadley and it has taken all the abuse i have thrown at it


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## demo_slug (Jan 1, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> *HADLEYS*
> 
> I ride DH...........I am 6 foot and 215....My bike weighs 42 pounds....I figure i am rolling with all my body armour and back pack at a weight of 285/290. I ride 4 times a week and sometime 6 times a week....every run I do a succession of drops between 3 feet to 8 feet......for the last 2 years My Hadleys. I doubt many people put that much strain on their bikes.....for me I know CK's are good, but they are not worth the price.........an excellent hub is a Hadley and it has taken all the abuse i have thrown at it


please qualify if your experiance is with the 36pt or the 108pt. all the DH heavy duty hadleys I've seen are the 36pt.


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## ken50397 (Mar 23, 2004)

*Downhill?*

I know downhill and huge drops puts an amazing amount of stress on axles, but does downhill really stress the freehub? I have never broken my freehubs while bombing downhill, they have always broken on tought technical climbs or again climbing over obstacles. Maybe it is just me.

Handlebars? Wheels? Axles? Frames? Cranks? Yeah, all downhill sensitve stuff. Freehub to me is not.

Ken.



SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> *HADLEYS*
> 
> I ride DH...........I am 6 foot and 215....My bike weighs 42 pounds....I figure i am rolling with all my body armour and back pack at a weight of 285/290. I ride 4 times a week and sometime 6 times a week....every run I do a succession of drops between 3 feet to 8 feet......for the last 2 years My Hadleys. I doubt many people put that much strain on their bikes.....for me I know CK's are good, but they are not worth the price.........an excellent hub is a Hadley and it has taken all the abuse i have thrown at it


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## jmmiller (May 9, 2005)

Likewise, ive never had problems with my cassette, chain, chain, or free hub going downhill. The last time i broke my freehub i was going uphill on an out and up trail whered i ride up then i turn around and ride back down. I broke it going to the top, actually about 20 yards from the top of the trail head and sat down made a verdict and turned aroudn and went downhill. And i got a question whatre u wearing thats so heavy? thats about 75 pounds of gear. Your helmet is probabley pretty heavy but what else?

Romans 8:31


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## GGAllen (Jul 18, 2004)

*Small correction..*



RockyRider said:


> ..Actually the King engagement is quicker. The 72 teeth engage with every 5 degrees of wheel rotation (360/72) whereas the Hadleys engage with every 10 degrees of wheel rotation (360/36). I just checked this on both and it's true.


 I was referring to the 108pt Hadley in the post you replied to..

The Hadley 108pt engages every 3.3 degrees as opposed to Kings 5 degrees. Hadley is faster. Admittedly, 1.7 degrees would be difficult to detect, but it is _*faster*_.


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## watermoccasin (Jan 28, 2004)

My uphill bike is 39 lbs, downhill ~47 lbs, and I'm 220 lbs and like to go big. I've broken nearly every part on my bikes in the last three seasons doing DH at Whistler and lots of uphill as well.

I have owned both Chris King and Hadley hubs. Still have my old Chris King classics on my 'cross bike, 10 years old and still going strong. Had a pair of King ISO discs, and the rear hub wouldn't stay tight, a known problem with some of their hubs. Have 3 Hadley rear hubs, all 36pt models (which I find plenty quick for ultra-tech climbing and trials stuff), the oldest survived 2 Whistler seasons with virtually no wear and is still working perfectly. I will only buy Hadley rear hubs, no more Kings.


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## ken50397 (Mar 23, 2004)

*Any Problems?*

So have you had any freehub problems with either? It doesn't sounds like it. Why no more Kings? Is it the loosening you experienced?

Ken.



watermoccasin said:


> My uphill bike is 39 lbs, downhill ~47 lbs, and I'm 220 lbs and like to go big. I've broken nearly every part on my bikes in the last three seasons doing DH at Whistler and lots of uphill as well.
> 
> I have owned both Chris King and Hadley hubs. Still have my old Chris King classics on my 'cross bike, 10 years old and still going strong. Had a pair of King ISO discs, and the rear hub wouldn't stay tight, a known problem with some of their hubs. Have 3 Hadley rear hubs, all 36pt models (which I find plenty quick for ultra-tech climbing and trials stuff), the oldest survived 2 Whistler seasons with virtually no wear and is still working perfectly. I will only buy Hadley rear hubs, no more Kings.


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## watermoccasin (Jan 28, 2004)

ken50397 said:


> So have you had any freehub problems with either? It doesn't sounds like it. Why no more Kings? Is it the loosening you experienced?
> Ken.


Nope, no freehub problems with either. But I destroyed 2 shimano freehubs last winter (xt in 3 months, deore in 1 month).

I prefer Hadley because, having taken both the Hadley and King apart, I like the design of the Hadley better. And I didn't like the loosening of my ISO rear hub. And I didn't like how the spacing is slightly different from every other hub made, requiring cassette spacers and brake adjustments if you want to swap wheelsets. Also not a fan of the soft aluminum freehub shell. And I don't like how King raised their prices so much. And I like the slightly more "industrial" look to the Hadleys, versus the more "jewelry" look of the Kings. Not to bash on King too much, though -- I will always use a King headset. And it's kinda entertaining how when I stop pedalling on my road bike, it sounds like there's a swarm of angry bees chasing me.


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