# NEWBIE getting close to Forge SawBack 5xx should I



## MonkeyTrail (Oct 1, 2008)

first i want to say thanks to all the people who have help on this forum. LIike i have posted before looking for a HT around $600. Doing a lot searching and looking at many reviews i have consider everones options. The one bike i see people just giving props is the 5xx. 

Now is this bike the real deal does it really stock up to other bikes that are $500-$600?
Can i grow with this bike?
How does it comare to Trek 4500 and Hardrock is it up to par?

Can someone tell me why i should not go with bike?

Last thing are the parts the real deal too and not the water version like made for. In golf there is a lot of made for parts?

The only real thing holding back is the brand like stated in other post big on brand reputation.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

if the forge sawback 5xx, trek 4500, and hardrock are your final choices, you need to compare them side by side component wise, and price wise.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

My 5xx arrived today and I am picking it up from the bike shop tomorrow.
I'll let you know how it turns out. I too have not seen any bad reviews of it, 
especially for the price it sells for.


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## MonkeyTrail (Oct 1, 2008)

nola_Prius said:


> My 5xx arrived today and I am picking it up from the bike shop tomorrow.
> I'll let you know how it turns out. I too have not seen any bad reviews of it,
> especially for the price it sells for.


yes that will be great i cant wait to buy a bike and start ridding. Plus i have no way of testing it only if i buy one. Which one did you get? blue or gray?


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*The most important thing for a new rider...*

The most important thing is fit. My advice is to go to a local shop, work with someone who can give you advice on fit and test ride multiple bikes to determine which one feels best for you.


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## xxforeverfallenxx (Dec 5, 2007)

Ken in KC said:


> The most important thing is fit. My advice is to go to a local shop, work with someone who can give you advice on fit and test ride multiple bikes to determine which one feels best for you.


+1 to this this!!!!! despite all the "experts" on this and many other forums your BEST advice is to go to your local bike SHOP! If your on a budget, tell the shop...... this time of year 2010's are coming in and they will work with you on price of a leftover or even additional discounts on a 2010. Yup you'll save a bit of cash by purchasing these "online" brands, but you will end up getting what you pay for.... Is www.bikesdirect.com going to be there to make the adjustments for your bike after its break in? How about warranty? I'm sure that will be REAL easy........ Oh, the stem on your bike is a bit to short when it arrives? well gotta drop another $35 to get a different one..... How about fit? how are you going to be sure the "fit" of the bike works for you. Please understand one thing, THE FIT OF THE BIKE IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING!!!!!!! Yes, more than spec, brand, color,what your friends say. Period. I'm amazed at the crazyness that reported as "fact" on these forums.

Have you considered used bikes? Its often worth a look, but someone with experiance to help you shop is kinda a must. It may be a way to get the max value for your dollar, bet could also be a massive waste of $600 so be careful.

I'm usually a Specialized fan, but I'm a road rider...... ( just put a deposit on my 1st mtn bike ) but all of the major brands are going to have very similar models.

In conclusion, In my opinion if those are the 2 models you have selected GO WITH THE ONE YOU CAN ACTUALLY TRY!!!! GO WITH THE ONE WHERE YOU HAVE LOCAL SUPPORT TO STAND BEHIND YOUR PURCHASE!!!! $600 is al lot of money, make sure its spent with the best LONG TERM VALUE!!! ( hows your reslae value going to be on that no name internet brand that no ones ever heard of? )

Dan

Oh and one thing to add, if you can have some patience in your shopping it will do you worlds of good! Take the time to find out What you want, what you need, what you want to spend, what you can spend........ I wish you lived in the New england area, as well have a TON of bike shops. The tough economic times have defintly changed their pricing structure in my area! Just a quick look around as even some of the more "expensive" stores turned up some Trek 6000's and Spec Rockhopper disc models in the low $600 price range


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Well.... I just got back from picking up my Forge Sawback 5xx from the bike shop, and taking it for my first ride.

Let me say that..... IT IS AWESOME!! 
I can honestly say with full sincerity that it feels just as good IF NOT BETTER than the Trek and the Giant bikes I rode at the bike shop. (keep in mind that the Trek and Giant bikes I rode were in the same price range)

The Trek I road hung up twice on me while I was shifting through gears...maybe it wasn't properly tuned, maybe it was. I don't know.
Also keep in mind that both the Trek and the Giant did NOT have disc brakes like the Forge does.

Just because it is marketed through Target.com should not discourage you.
Look at the components it comes with,
Read the reviews,
THEN make your decision.
Don't let the haters and naysayers discourage you.

Yes, actually riding a bike or two before deciding is of benefit, so I also suggest that you do that. After test riding the two in the local shop, all I walked away with knowing for sure is the approximate bike size I wanted. 18" felt a little too big to me, so I went with the 17" Forge.

The brakes feel great. The shifting is smoother than both of the bikes I testrode combined.

Don't listen to the negative hype about warranty and support. I'm sure you've read the reviews on Forge. Their customer service reputation is pretty damn good.
Bring it to a local shop and have them finish assembling and tune it for you.
If any bike shop refuses to service or help you with your Forge bike just because it isn't one of the most "popular" brands that everyone has or because it's something that they don't sell in the store, tell them to kiss your butt and that you'll spend your money elsewhere. Seriously...if I walked into a shop looking to spend money on maintenance and was greeted and treated with such snootiness, I'd immediately turn around and go to their competitor.

xxforeverfallenxx mentions $600. We all know that the Forge Sawback is $399, minus 10% discount that is floating around everywhere. Register at ebates.com and you can get an additional 4%.

Read the Sawback reviews, compare the specs to other brands, look at the prices, then make your decision.
If you know what size you'll need, you can make other minor adjustments to the seat and handlebars to compensate for any small discrepancies. 

You're a newbie, I'm a newbie, you'll be more than happy with the quality and deal that Forge offers.
Call your local shops and ask them how much their cheapest bike with disc brakes is.

Don't listen to the haters! Do some research (online and at local shops), then follow your instinct!


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

glad you like it, i dont throw around forge bikes just because of the price i suggest them because of the experience, the price is just the bonus that sweetens the deal. You cant get a specialized or a trek with the parts that the forge has for the price that they sell it.


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## xxforeverfallenxx (Dec 5, 2007)

nola_Prius said:


> Well.... I just got back from picking up my Forge Sawback 5xx from the bike shop, and taking it for my first ride.
> 
> Let me say that..... IT IS AWESOME!!
> I can honestly say with full sincerity that it feels just as good IF NOT BETTER than the Trek and the Giant bikes I rode at the bike shop. (keep in mind that the Trek and Giant bikes I rode were in the same price range)
> ...


This post is a prime example of why internet forums suck........

I will start off by saying nola, congrats on the new bike! ride it like you stole it!

A few things with your post though...... You comment on me mentioning $600 price tag and state "we all know the sawback is $399" wellI, I was refering to the OP's price range ( listed in another thread ) of between $500-$600. You also repeatedly mention "haters" I dont hate your bike or any other, honestly I couldnt give a crap what you ride. How you spend your money is your own business. The op asked for advice on how to buy a bike and what to look for.... I realize your excited about your recient purchase, but holy crap your a bike expert after having owned the bike for a day? You mention Forge's stellar cust service...... You know anyone thats had a frame replaced by them? The relationship you build with your local dealler can be a very important one! Have I piad a bit more for things buying at mt LBS yup! But, what that "relationship" has ment in the long run has NO price tag!! The owner of that shop has gone WAY WAY WAY, above and beyond in all of my purchases in that shop, even letting me borrow a bike for a group ride, while mine was in for service ( let me borrow a $5000 cervelo road bike for a group ride ) You encourage The OP to "read the reviews" I would most definatly agree! Go read all the reviews, then, realized that 99% of them are written by 14 year olds that just got their bike yesterday.

I will encourage you to slander me however you like, as I normally dont post on forums.... Been home sick with the flu the past few days!!! :sad:

Good luck enjoy the new ride!


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

xxforeverfallenxx said:


> This post is a prime example of why internet forums suck........
> 
> I will start off by saying nola, congrats on the new bike! ride it like you stole it!
> 
> ...


I'm glad you posted that. I agree completely, I just couldn't seem to write it out without being a dick.


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## xxforeverfallenxx (Dec 5, 2007)

Spawne32 said:


> glad you like it, i dont throw around forge bikes just because of the price i suggest them because of the experience, the price is just the bonus that sweetens the deal. You cant get a specialized or a trek with the parts that the forge has for the price that they sell it.


Dont forget, you also dont get qualified advice, quality cust service, a store front to bring your bike to, a technician to fix what you break, a store to put on group rides and races. Free tunes ups for a year. a rock solid warranty, with someone there to back it up.......
Discounts on gear ( a lot of shops offer discounts on accesories with and after your purchase ) The ability to try and HAVE THE BIKE PROPERLY FIT TO YOU!!!!! Why the heck dont MTN bikers get this??????? My fit this afternoon for my GF I just picked up was 45min and involved setting it up on a trainer with the shop "fit" guy tape measures, levels were all used..... The last fit I had on a road bike was almost 2 hours, done by the owner of the store........ get that online!!!

Bottom line is YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! ( and no I dont mean just throwing cash at the sport ) you want a bike to put around on and beat the heck out of in your buddies back yard, go on www.whatever.com and get well, whatever........ If you have ANY desire to make cycling any sort of long term hobbie,sport,ect. Do your self a favor and start your relationship with your local LBS now, you'll be much happier in the long run


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

xxforeverfallenxx said:


> This post is a prime example of why internet forums suck........
> 
> I will start off by saying nola, congrats on the new bike! ride it like you stole it!
> 
> ...


Very well stated. I agree with this 100%. It's good to save money when you can, but it's not always advisable to cut corners. Again, great two posts. We need more people like you posting here.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

xxforeverfallenxx said:


> This post is a prime example of why internet forums suck........


If you truly believe that, then maybe you should leave... no offense.
It's obvious how little you participated in the almost 2 years of your membership.
You don't have to agree with or like everyone else's opinion, but don't expect them not to have one that differs...and don't be shocked when people challenge bold claims.



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> I will start off by saying nola, congrats on the new bike! ride it like you stole it!


Thank you very much. 



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> You comment on me mentioning $600 price tag and state "we all know the sawback is $399" wellI, I was refering to the OP's price range ( listed in another thread ) of between $500-$600.


Yes, but you weren't knocking his decision to get a bike from a shop. You were knocking/questioning his decision about the Forge...which is $399, NOT $600. So why mention $600 in "$600 is a lot of money to spend" ??



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> The op asked for advice on how to buy a bike and what to look for....


Judging by this thread's title, I think his mind is kinda made up and set on the Forge Sawback 5xx. I just felt that you weren't giving the Forge enough credit and that you were blatantly trying to convince him AGAINST it.



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> I realize your excited about your recient purchase, but holy crap your a bike expert after having owned the bike for a day?


Of course I'm not an expert, where did I sound like an expert?
I'm not a language expert either, but I know that they made a contraction for "you + are"...it's "you're."



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> You mention Forge's stellar cust service...... You know anyone thats had a frame replaced by them?


No, but I've read the reviews and people have had the bike for 2+ years with no problems whatsoever. The few comments I read about needing customer service, they all said that Forge handled it promptly and for free through a local shop.



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> The relationship you build with your local dealler can be a very important one! Have I piad a bit more for things buying at mt LBS yup! But, what that "relationship" has ment in the long run has NO price tag!! The owner of that shop has gone WAY WAY WAY, above and beyond in all of my purchases in that shop, even letting me borrow a bike for a group ride, while mine was in for service ( let me borrow a $5000 cervelo road bike for a group ride )


Absolutely. There is nothing wrong with building a good relationship with your local bike shop. However, a good relationship does NOT rely on actually buying the bike there.
If a bike shop is run by friendly and professional people, they'll treat any customer like a customer.



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> Go read all the reviews, then, realized that 99% of them are written by 14 year olds that just got their bike yesterday.


Wrong.



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> I will encourage you to slander me however you like, as I normally dont post on forums.... Been home sick with the flu the past few days!!! :sad:


Slander you? I simply quoted you and commented on what you were saying. I wasn't slandering YOU. Sorry to hear that you're under the weather. 



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> Good luck enjoy the new ride!


Most definitely am already!


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Rod said:


> Very well stated. I agree with this 100%. It's good to save money when you can, but it's not always advisable to cut corners. Again, great two posts. We need more people like you posting here.


Why don't you just fellate him while you're at it?? 
Cutting corners? How so? 
The components on the Forge are better than most bikes in the price range.
What's wrong with going with the best deal?? It's THAT simple. It's a better deal, dollar for dollar. You can't really argue with that.

Yeah, yeah...it's better to ride a bike before buying it and all that, sure...I never argued that point. My point is plain and simple. The Forge is the better deal for the price.
The OP even calls himself a "newbie." Don't tell him he needs to spend top dollar on a name brand bike, just because that's what all the pros or experienced riders (AKA "non-newbies") ride.

The Forge is a great bike, especially for "newbies" and especially for the price tag.
Are you really saying that it isn't?


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## xxforeverfallenxx (Dec 5, 2007)

Nola, plain and simple..... The OP asked for opinions on "WHY" he should not purchase a specific model, I gave my opinion....... Bottom line....... you mention building the ability to build a relationship with your LBS... so I asume you are on a first name basis with the owner of your LBS? Your LBVS has stayed past closing dealing with a difficult problem for you? Special order a part and had it nextday air for you at no additional cost? I have....... I seroiusly doubt that you have any such interaction with your LBS. The online business KILLs small town business, no more LBS, no more sponserships,races,trail maint. groupr irdes,service techs. ect. In my opinion seems fools to throw that away to save 10 or 20%

I have kept my post civil. Personal attacks ( such as attacking grammar or spelling ) on a forum in really, pretty lame. I made no personal remarks about you in anyway, and if you continue, are really not worth having any sort of conversation with.

Look I DONT care, you can ride a 25 year old huffy with flat tires, I DONT care...... You can order any POS from any website. I DONT CARE. I will gladly ride with anyone who supports and enjoys the sport. The OP asked for a opinion I gave it


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

xxforeverfallenxx said:


> Nola, plain and simple..... The OP asked for opinions on "WHY" he should not purchase a specific model, I gave my opinion....... Bottom line....... you mention building the ability to build a relationship with your LBS... so I asume you are on a first name basis with the owner of your LBS? Your LBVS has stayed past closing dealing with a difficult problem for you? Special order and part and had it nextday air for you at no additional cost? I have.......


Well.... I haven't run into any difficult problems with my crappy Forge yet. 
About the first names, yes... his name was Steve and he called me Nick.



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> I have kept my post civil.


HAHA! Oh really?? Saying that I'm the reason internet forums suck is civil? You're insane.



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> Personal attacks ( such as attacking grammar or spelling ) on a forum in really, pretty lame.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm pretty sure you made the first personal attack.
You want to claim that all the Forge reviewers are 14 year old newbs?? How old are YOU?? Learn your language. It's not that difficult. Don't pass the guilt to someone who spots and calls you out on it.



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> Look I DONT care, you can ride a 25 year old huffy with flat tires, I DONT care...... You can order any POS from any website. I DONT CARE.


You sure seem to care.
It's kinda obvious that you do care, because you're still insisting that the Forge is a POS.
The reviews, BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACTUALLY RIDDEN IT (like you claim is the most important), hardly agree with your "POS" claim.

Yes, you gave your opinion. I commented on your opinion.... so sue me.
You talked about "$600 is a lot of money, so spend it wisely." The FACT is that he's considering the Forge, which is FOUR hundred dollars, not six hundred.
I never disagreed with testing and considering bikes at local shops. I simply said to consider the Forge, as he obviously already is. Component for component, it's the better deal. That's all I said. Sorry it bothered you. Have a nice day.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

xxforeverfallenxx said:


> Dont forget, you also dont get qualified advice, quality cust service, a store front to bring your bike to, a technician to fix what you break, a store to put on group rides and races. Free tunes ups for a year. a rock solid warranty, with someone there to back it up.......
> Discounts on gear ( a lot of shops offer discounts on accesories with and after your purchase ) The ability to try and HAVE THE BIKE PROPERLY FIT TO YOU!!!!! Why the heck dont MTN bikers get this??????? My fit this afternoon for my GF I just picked up was 45min and involved setting it up on a trainer with the shop "fit" guy tape measures, levels were all used..... The last fit I had on a road bike was almost 2 hours, done by the owner of the store........ get that online!!!
> 
> Bottom line is YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! ( and no I dont mean just throwing cash at the sport ) you want a bike to put around on and beat the heck out of in your buddies back yard, go on www.whatever.com and get well, whatever........ If you have ANY desire to make cycling any sort of long term hobbie,sport,ect. Do your self a favor and start your relationship with your local LBS now, you'll be much happier in the long run


really? your gona resort to making stuff up now to try to win your side of the argument? i can go in to a bike shop and not even have a bike and still get qualified, expert advice and support. Secondly, there are always techs to fix what you break because...its a bike shop, you can take a walmart bike in there and they will fix it just like every other bike, because thats what they do. And seriously? Discounts on gear and free tune ups for a year? Thats because you paid 10x the regular price by buying at your local bike shop anyway so they have to include something to sweeten the deal.

You know what half the problem is with internet forums foreverfallen, and i say bike forums in general. Its because 50% of the users that are on these types of forums giving the advice, are either bike shop owners or employees, and telling someone who is new and looking for a bike to go to their local bike shop, is flat out good for business.


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## xxforeverfallenxx (Dec 5, 2007)

No internet forums suck because, a guy that has ZERO actual bike experiance is giving advice to someone...... Thats a shame...... this guys moneys is on the line! 

Hardly a personal attack ( didnt I start by congradulation you on your purchase! ) Im sure your forge is not crap, Im sure you felt it was the best you could do for 400, congrats.

That being said, you ARE NO LONGER WORTH TALKING TO. I have ZERO desire to argue with a 14 over the internet. enjoy your bike.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

I once snapped the headset seal on my pitch and specialized replaced the entire headset with an upgraded cane creek at no charge (including LBS labor) within a couple days. You can't get this level of service and after-purchase support with many other companies, and definitely not a used bike or online. A cheaper purchase may benefit in the short term, but a few hundred more now will definitely pay off in the long run. I am in favor of going through an LBS. The fact that companies like specialized back up every bike they sell with a lifetime warranty highlights what you get from the price difference between big, well reputed companies and online or department-store brands.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

xxforeverfallenxx said:


> No internet forums suck because, a guy that has ZERO actual bike experiance is giving advice to someone...... Thats a shame...... this guys moneys is on the line!
> 
> Hardly a personal attack ( didnt I start by congradulation you on your purchase! ) Im sure your forge is not crap, Im sure you felt it was the best you could do for 400, congrats.
> 
> That being said, you ARE NO LONGER WORTH TALKING TO. I have ZERO desire to argue with a 14 over the internet. enjoy your bike.


This guys money is on the line? This is a forum dude, the guy comes on here for OPINIONS, his final choice will be his choice and his choice alone, its up to him to do the research and take suggestions as he see's fit. There is nothing wrong with providing someone a cheaper alternative then the status quo, "Go to your local bike shop and buy what that guy tells you to buy".


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

xxforeverfallenxx said:


> No internet forums suck because, a guy that has ZERO actual bike experiance is giving advice to someone.


I've done my research. Both online and in local shops.



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> didnt I start by congradulation you on your purchase!


No. Actually, you started with exactly saying this after quoting my post:
"This post is a prime example of why internet forums suck........"



xxforeverfallenxx said:


> That being said, you ARE NO LONGER WORTH TALKING TO. I have ZERO desire to argue with a 14 over the internet. enjoy your bike.


HAHA AGAIN! I'm nowhere near 14, but let's pretend I was....
What do you think about a 14 year old having better grammar than you? How old are you again?? You feel BETTER about yourself???


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Lambdamaster said:


> I once snapped the headset seal on my pitch and specialized replaced the entire headset with an upgraded cane creek at no charge (including LBS labor) within a couple days. You can't get this level of service and after-purchase support with many other companies, and definitely not a used bike or online. A cheaper purchase may benefit in the short term, but a few hundred more now will definitely pay off in the long run. I am in favor of going through an LBS. The fact that companies like specialized back up every bike they sell with a lifetime warranty highlights what you get from the price difference between big, well reputed companies and online or department-store brands.


what exactly where you doing that you snapped the headset?


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

cmon nola, the bickering about grammar isnt necessary.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> what exactly where you doing that you snapped the headset?


does it matter?? I was doing shuttled practice runs on a downhill course the day prior to the race. They replaced it no questions asked.
Oh, and I snapped a dust seal, not the actual Hset.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Talk about snapping headsets and broken frames, etc... I don't think this newbie (or myself as a newbie) runs the risk of cracking the frame. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that the OP newbie isn't looking to do any super jumps or drops with his bike.
I seriously doubt that the Forge is just gonna fall apart on him... and they HAVE promptly replaced parts for free through local bike shops.

I also read in several places that the frame is maybe built by Giant??? Or something like that. There was a comparison somewhere between them. If that's true, that gives the frame a little more credibility, no?


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Spawne32 said:


> cmon nola, the bickering about grammar isnt necessary.


You are right. It isn't...and I usually never resort to such nitpicking...but the guy's first sentence was blaming ME for "internet forums sucking."

Since all internet forums are filled with 14 years, according to him, shouldn't be held responsible for exposing our youth to poor grammar?? OK, I'm just kidding... sorta.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Lambdamaster said:


> does it matter?? I was doing shuttled practice runs on a downhill course the day prior to the race. They replaced it no questions asked.
> Oh, and I snapped a dust seal, not the actual Hset.


it does matter, because a forge 5xx hardtail isnt a downhill competition bike, and like i said in the other thread, forges warranty is fine for the uses the bikes are made for, and their customer service is exemplary when it comes to replacing parts. I would expect someone that buys a very expensive specialized bike for downhill racing should have his headset replaced if it breaks, just as i would expect GM to replace a part on a corvette zr1 if it broke during a race with that, but i wouldnt expect them to replace parts under warranty if i crashed a chevy aveo on an autocross track now would i?

Bikes are warranted for their use they are designed for, the forge 5xx is designed for mountain and xc use, and its warranted just for that, no questions asked.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> it does matter, because a forge 5xx hardtail isnt a downhill competition bike, and like i said in the other thread, forges warranty is fine for the uses the bikes are made for, and their customer service is exemplary when it comes to replacing parts. I would expect someone that buys a very expensive specialized bike for downhill racing should have his headset replaced if it breaks, just as i would expect GM to replace a part on a corvette zr1 if it broke during a race with that, but i wouldnt expect them to replace part under warranty if i crashed a chevy aveo on an autocross track now would i?
> 
> Bikes are warranted for their use they are designed for, the forge 5xx is designed for mountain and xc use, and its warranted just for that, no questions asked.


if you buy a chevy aveo from specialized and you busted the struts doing rally-X then specialized would still fix it for free. If I bought a $400 specialized hardrock recreational xc bike today and busted it tomorrow doing downhill runs, then specialized would still warranty it.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Lambdamaster said:


> if you buy a chevy aveo from specialized and you busted the struts doing rally-X then specialized would still fix it for free. If I bought a $400 specialized hardrock recreational xc bike today and busted it tomorrow doing downhill runs, then specialized would still warranty it.


Not according to their warranty policy, you can fool some of the people some of the time my friend.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

:lol:

So nola has gone from, yesterday or the day before, wondering if he could even put his bike together, to today, being a qualified point of advice on all things Forge Sawback and the beginner mountain bike market. He also does not have "zero actual bike experience" because he read some stuff online and talked to some people about the Forge. He may or may not have gone for a ride yet.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

nachomc said:


> :lol:
> 
> So nola has gone from, yesterday or the day before, wondering if he could even put his bike together, to today, being a qualified point of advice on all things Forge Sawback and the beginner mountain bike market. He also does not have "zero actual bike experience" because he read some stuff online and talked to some people about the Forge. He may or may not have gone for a ride yet.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:    
You have nothing to offer here obviously. Attacking my research and the information that I offer to the OP is worthless. 
As I said, I did my research online, I went to some local bike shops, rode some bikes, and then made my decision.
What the hell are you trying to prove?? What is your argument here??

The OP is a "newbie" who probably wants a bike for "newbie" purposes. Do you really think he needs to spend $600 in a local shop to achieve what he wants?
Yes, I took my bike for a couple rides already. Yes, I've ridden bikes before. 
The OP's needs and standards might not be as high as yours are with your 3,000+ posts. You shouldn't assume that they are.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

it surprises me that you guys really dont use your own website to the fullest

http://www.mtbr.com/mfr/forgebikes/xc-hardtail/sawback-5xx/PRD_420602_1527crx.aspx


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Spawne32 said:


> it surprises me that you guys really dont use your own website to the fullest
> 
> http://www.mtbr.com/mfr/forgebikes/xc-hardtail/sawback-5xx/PRD_420602_1527crx.aspx


The OP stated his wants and concerns. 
Both sides of the argument have been made.
I'm sure he'll make the right decision for himself, whichever way he goes.

People getting all riled up because someone recommends a cheaper (FINANCIALLY, not QUALITY-WISE) route is ridiculous. 
Calm down, people. No one is saying that you wasted your money on your expensive name brand bikes. You're still viewed as an experienced bike enthusiast who knows what's best for everyone else. Don't worry. Your internet reputation is still intact.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)




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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

nola_Prius said:


> :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
> You have nothing to offer here obviously. Attacking my research and the information that I offer to the OP is worthless.
> As I said, I did my research online, I went to some local bike shops, rode some bikes, and then made my decision.
> What the hell are you trying to prove?? What is your argument here??
> ...


The simple fact is that you don't have a lot of experience mountain biking (any?). In my four years of fairly serious riding (maybe 6000 off road miles), a few different bikes, a few injuries, lots of trail talk with other riders, and of course my 3,000+ posts, I've noticed a few trends.

1. Beginners are die hard supporters of their bikes.
2. Beginners who buy the less expensive bike like the Forge, Motobecane or other Bikes DIrect bikes, are "fight to the death, these are the best bikes ever and anyone who pays more for the 'same thing' is an idiot" supporters of their bikes. You're already doing that.
3. Beginners tend to want to be helpful, have their heart in the right place, give what they feel is genuine advice, but because of their inexperience give the wrong advice. We were all here one day.

I'm not trying to be rude to you, but look at your posts from your thread the other day wondering if you could put your own bike together, and not even knowing what some of the major components were (or at least common acronyms for them), and compare them to your posts in this thread. In this thread, you're telling me not to assume things, and then making assumptions about my rationale and the OPs intended riding purpose and needs. It's like two different people.

Maybe you should slow down a little and accept that, while yes the Forge has received tons of great reviews, but the 'best deal' on a bike is not determined by price alone.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

nachomc said:


> The simple fact is that you don't have a lot of experience mountain biking (any?). In my four years of fairly serious riding (maybe 6000 off road miles), a few different bikes, a few injuries, lots of trail talk with other riders, and of course my 3,000+ posts, I've noticed a few trends.


Boasting about years and miles is hardly necessary when talking about a newbie's bike needs.
All it takes is knowing what you require as a biker, a little research, and a little common sense. With those ingredients, most people will acknowledge the Forge as the best deal.



nachomc said:


> 1. Beginners are die hard supporters of their bikes.


So an expert like you hates a new bike you get? What are you trying to say exactly?
I'm not some "die hard" supporter that's saying "my bike is better than yours!!!"
I've read Forge Sawback reviews by beginners and non-beginners. The Forge is a good deal. PERIOD.



nachomc said:


> 2. Beginners who buy the less expensive bike like the Forge, Motobecane or other Bikes DIrect bikes, are "fight to the death, these are the best bikes ever and anyone who pays more for the 'same thing' is an idiot" supporters of their bikes. You're already doing that.


No, actually I'm not doing that at all.
I'm simply saying that the Forge is the best bang for the buck, when you want to compare components, owner reviews, and price tag. The OP is a self proclaimed newbie. He doesn't need to spend any more money than he needs to spend.



nachomc said:


> 3. Beginners tend to want to be helpful, have their heart in the right place, give what they feel is genuine advice, but because of their inexperience give the wrong advice. We were all here one day.


Get over yourself. The guy asked for opinions and advice, and I gave him some. I was also very friendly and realistic about it. Go back and read my first coupe of posts.



nachomc said:


> I'm not trying to be rude to you, but look at your posts from your thread the other day wondering if you could put your own bike together, and not even knowing what some of the major components were (or at least common acronyms for them), and compare them to your posts in this thread. In this thread, you're telling me not to assume things, and then making assumptions about my rationale and the OPs intended riding purpose and needs. It's like two different people.


I've never BUILT a bike. In the past few weeks, I've read a lot on bikes in my price range and also went to shops and test road some name brand ones. Now that I have my Forge, it doesn't seem any less quality to me. 
Now that I have ridden other brands AND my Forge, I feel more certain than I did before that all the positive reviews and claims about Forge offering perhaps the best deal available are true.
Are you arguing with my personal experience and opinion?



nachomc said:


> the 'best deal' on a bike is not determined by price alone.


You're right. Popularity is ****NOT**** figured into "best deal."
Price and quality are the only factors when figuring "best deal."
Look at the price. Look at the components.
What is there to argue over??
The cheapest bike with disc brakes at the local shops was close to $600.

I really don't know what else to say.
Nowhere did I say that Forge makes THE BEST bikes ever created. Nowhere did I say that the OP can't spend more money to get something even better.
It's as if some of you out there refuse to acknowledge the Forge as the great deal that it is.
Maybe it wouldn't suit your needs as an experienced pro, but the OP nor myself are an experienced pro.
To assume that the Forge would fall apart on him and that he'd need all kinds of expensive repair work done is absolutely crazy.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

One last post (unless I feel provoked, of course )

MonkeyTrail,
After all this nonsense... I hope you, one way or the other, feel a little more certain about what bike you need. You didn't mention in your original post, so only you really know what kind of riding you plan to do. I doubt that you plan to do any huge drops or jumps. If you do, the 500-600 dollar price range you mentioned might be out of the question.
Consider all of your options, do your research, look at your wallet, then make a decision!
As a newbie, any of the above mentioned bike choices will probably make you more than happy to ride.


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## MonkeyTrail (Oct 1, 2008)

man i like what poeple have to say and have help me open my eyes to see the big picture. I really need to look at the spec closly. Im a huge fan of Trek but that is one thing. I want i good bike for the money like any other person will like too. the only problem with Forge i have i can not test it before i buy it. But like stated before i have not heard any bad comments on the bike and company. So it is just hear say for now. I like fourm a lot because i get the hear the pro and cons which helps me look of the different aspects. Ill try to nerrow my choices down so people here can help me break down the bikes help chose the rt one

THX


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

I can do the mega-quote break out thing too.



nola_Prius said:


> So an expert like you hates a new bike you get? What are you trying to say exactly?
> I'm not some "die hard" supporter that's saying "my bike is better than yours!!!"
> I've read Forge Sawback reviews by beginners and non-beginners. The Forge is a good deal. PERIOD.


What I'm trying to say here, since clearly I have to spell it out for you, is that I don't see a ton of experienced riders out there jumping in to a thread trying to defend their bike like crazy, or just recommending it to everyone regardless of what they're asking for. It's much more common for beginners to do this. Stick around a while (I mean, I know your solid month of membership here has taught you everything but there may be more to learn).



nola_Prius said:


> No, actually I'm not doing that at all.
> I'm simply saying that the Forge is the best bang for the buck, when you want to compare components, owner reviews, and price tag. The OP is a self proclaimed newbie. He doesn't need to spend any more money than he needs to spend.


 you're doing it right there!



nola_Prius said:


> Get over yourself. The guy asked for opinions and advice, and I gave him some. I was also very friendly and realistic about it. Go back and read my first coupe of posts.


I think you need to get over yourself, sir. And reread your original posts in here, you called people who didn't like the Forge haters.



nola_Prius said:


> I've never BUILT a bike. In the past few weeks, I've read a lot on bikes in my price range and also went to shops and test road some name brand ones. Now that
> I have my Forge, it doesn't seem any less quality to me.


You don't see the problem with someone who doesn't know what a "BB" is, whether or not torque spec is important, how to properly shift his bike, etc, coming in to a thread and telling a new rider what the best deal for them is and why your recommendation is the right one, and then trying to play it off like the more experienced riders are haters? Come on now.



nola_Prius said:


> Now that I have ridden other brands AND my Forge, I feel more certain than I did before that all the positive reviews and claims about Forge offering perhaps the best deal available are true.
> Are you arguing with my personal experience and opinion?


I'm sure all the reading you've done on the internet and your vast riding experience around the parking lot will put to shame any argument I could possibly make.



nola_Prius said:


> Then what is it determined by????
> Price and quality are the only factors when figuring "best deal."
> Are you confused or something??
> 
> ...


Your comment about popularity not being figured in to the equation only shows how clueless you are. There are people for whom that does indeed matter. I've seen people on this forum who are willing to spend MORE money on a bike they don't need, just because they like the color of it better. There are other factors as well - for some people, the relationship with a bike shop, the support of a local business, the service and parts discounts many people receive by buying from a bike shop, the advice, the rides, etc, all factor in.

You don't know what's right for everyone, and you're trying to come off in this thread like you are the expert on beginner bikes and what you say goes.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

I think I'll go join a yacht forum and tell them why my wife's kayak is the new hotness in entry-level luxury watercraft.

Later!


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

nachomc said:


> I think you need to get over yourself, sir. And reread your original posts in here, you called people who didn't like the Forge haters.


Go read my first post again. You obviously misread.
I used the word "hater" IN MY SECOND POST, AFTER BEING PROVOKED to describe exactly that... Someone who is being a hater, or a defeatist. Someone who refuses to acknowledge a good deal for just that.
I never said, "People who don't like Forge are haters." like you claim. Your claim is false.



nachomc said:


> You don't see the problem with someone who doesn't know what a "BB" is, whether or not torque spec is important, how to properly shift his bike, etc, coming in to a thread and telling a new rider what the best deal for them is and why your recommendation is the right one, and then trying to play it off like the more experienced riders are haters? Come on now.


You're insane. I never claimed to know more than anyone. I've repeatedly admitted my newb status, and also asked questions that I prefaced as being newbish.
There's nothing wrong with offering advice.

LOOK AT THE MOTHERF*CKING NUMBERS!!! DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR, COMPONENT FOR COMPONENT.
Jesus Christ. It doesn't take an expert to realize what the better deal is.



nachomc said:


> I'm sure all the reading you've done on the internet and your vast riding experience around the parking lot will put to shame any argument I could possibly make.


Once again, get over yourself. Repeatedly knocking me as a newb with "parking lot experience" only makes you seem like an online elitist with ego problems.



nachomc said:


> Your comment about popularity not being figured in to the equation only shows how clueless you are. There are people for whom that does indeed matter.


Yeah, guys with small penises or ones that feel the need to fit in. Maybe it's due to lack of attention as a child. I have no idea. You tell me what it's all about.



nachomc said:


> There are other factors as well - for some people, the relationship with a bike shop, the support of a local business, the service and parts discounts many people receive by buying from a bike shop, the advice, the rides, etc, all factor in.


If you can't obtain good service, friendly help, and even discounts (perhaps after a while of repeat business) without buying a bike from the shop, then find a new shop!!



nachomc said:


> You don't know what's right for everyone, and you're trying to come off in this thread like you are the expert on beginner bikes and what you say goes.


Once again...since YOU need it spelled out.

L-O-O-K A-T T-H-E O-P A-N-D H-I-S N-E-E-D-S.
L-O-O-K A-T T-H-E C-O-M-P-O-N-E-N-T-S.
L-O-O-K A-T T-H-E P-R-I-C-E-S.

The opposing argument holds no water.
OP, you won't be disappointed by the Forge. Ignore the haters, naysayers, and elitist egotists.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

nachomc said:


> I think I'll go join a yacht forum and tell them why my wife's kayak is the new hotness in entry-level luxury watercraft.
> 
> Later!


Another great post that really helps the OP make his decision.
Stop being silly.
A kayak and a yacht are two completely different things.

A Trek mountain bike, a Forge mountain bike, a Giant mountain bike, and a a Specialized mountain bike are all the same thing. A MOUNTAIN BIKE.

It's a question of needs and requirements.
Unless he will state otherwise, the OP does NOT need to spend the money that you people are telling him to spend.


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## aznmode (Jul 27, 2009)

I must be the 1% non-teenager that owned a Forge. Sorry to throw off the count. haha. I'm technically over 30 but lets not get into that. 

Nola..congrats again on the new bike. I'm glad you like it. 

To respond to the OP, in my opinion, the Forge is a great price for what it is. I think you should greatly consider it. Had it not been for the size, I would've kept the bike. I'm 5'5" and the 17" was just slightly bigger but not uncomfortable. Component wise, I couldn't find anything locally that had the same components for $400. It was either, you lose the disc brakes, or you get 24 speed with lower grade Shimano parts. I recommend searching the Sawback subforum and look for the 10% discount code which will save you $40. That saving can go towards assembly cost if you decide to take it to a LBS. Or assemble and tune it yourself as I did. If you find that you don't like the bike or it's not the right fit or for whatever reason, just return it. Target will arrange UPS pick up for free and you get full refund within a week of them receiving the bike. That's how long my refund took. Now the only thing you don't get back is the $29 shipping you originally paid. It use to be free shippping but not anymore. But that is still not bad.

If you are pretty technical a lot of basic tuning even adjusting derailleur you can learn online. If you decide to take it to an LBS then ask the technician questions. Some, if they're nice enough will even show how to adjust things on your bike. IMO building a rapport with your LBS doesn't necessarily mean you have to buy a bike from them. 

As far as warranty, I've heard great customer service from Forge. Maybe it's best to call them direct and find out how they handle warranty. I've read on the forum that if a component fail, Forge will have you take your bike to a LBS and they cover the charges. But again, call them to find out how their warranty works. 

When you do decide after to buy from a LBS, make sure you ask what they offer if you buy from them. Some, like where I purchased my Rockhopper didn't offer anything. Which is fine with me since I pretty much know the basics. They also charge 15% restock if I wanted to return the bike. Some won't even let you return the bike at all. So ask questions and don't assume. Majority however offer some type of free service and for the most part are generally helpful. 

Sorry for the long post but I hope this helps somewhat.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

nola_Prius said:


> Another great post that really helps the OP make his decision.
> Stop being silly.
> A kayak and a yacht are two completely different things.
> 
> A Trek mountain bike, a Forge mountain bike, a Giant mountain bike, and a a Specialized mountain bike are all the same thing. A MOUNTAIN BIKE.


So you're saying that a $10,000 Specialized mountain bike and a $300 Forge mountain bike are the same thing because they're both mountain bikes, but a $100,000 yacht and a $2,000 kayak, both of which are boats, are not the same thing?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

I think Nola and Nach need to get into a ring and settle this properly:


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

nachomc said:


> So you're saying that a $10,000 Specialized mountain bike and a $300 Forge mountain bike are the same thing because they're both mountain bikes, but a $100,000 yacht and a $2,000 kayak, both of which are boats, are not the same thing?


No, I'm not saying that, but I see why it might have seemed that way.
I was just saying that your comparison between kayaks and yachts was apples and oranges, and that it didn't properly apply to the discussion/argument here.

The $10,000 Specialized really wouldn't benefit the average newbie, softcore rider anymore than the $400 Forge would. It would just be wasted money and high-end components. That concept combined with the fact of "equal to or better than" components than other bikes in the same price range (or even a bit more expensive) has been my simple point all along.

I am a pretty realistic person that likes to have nice toys. If after some time, I am still riding and wanting to move forward in the sport, I will no doubt upgrade to a more expensive bike. I'm not hating on the cream of the crop, but I don't think it's necessary for beginners at all.

Getting the Forge will only allow me to appreciate the upgrade even more, if and when it happens. (which it most likely will eventually)


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

006_007 said:


> I think Nola and Nach need to get into a ring and settle this properly:


That looks like fun.


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## CRed (Aug 4, 2007)

The Forge Sawback is a great deal and as far as I can tell the frame is made by Giant(Yukon maybe?).I'm thinking of getting one for my son as I'm on a tight budget and don't really care for Trek or Specialized all that much.I think one of the LBS's here carries Jamis so I might check them out since they usually are great bang for the buck bikes.

Since I got back into biking I have yet to buy a bike from a shop,I just didn't like what they had to offer and preferred getting the components I like on a frame I like,but I have used them for builds and some parts and they're cool about it.Of course they try to push their bikes and that's to be expected and I take no offense from that,but I just don't like their bikes.Soon I'm going to have them build up a Ventana El Chiquillo frame and I'm excited about it.I'm sure they'll do a great job as usual and of all the builds they've done (3) for me I've never had to bring the bike in for repair once in two years.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Research without context....*



nola_Prius said:


> I've done my research. Both online and in local shops.


Doing research to make an educated decision is important. But it doesn't replace years of experience.

You're offering advice based on no actual mountain biking experience regarding the one and only mountain bike you've ever purchased and ridden... yesterday.

Since you didn't like the kayak metaphor, does this one work for you: Who would you rather take flying advice from: A guy who could recite flight instruction manuals verbatim based on his research but had only one actual flight under his belt or a guy who was an IP, had been flying for decades with multiple types of aircraft?

You're fairly fixated on "beginner" but I practice what I preach and I'm far from a beginner: I don't buy a $50 dress shirt without trying it on to ensure that the neck and sleeves fit properly. I won't buy a several hundred dollar bike without doing the same thing.

It's foolish for any rider to not determine whether a bike fits or not before dropping money on it. It's especially foolish for a beginner to do so because they have absolutely zero context to determine whether the bike fits properly or not. The bike may fit them and it works fine. Or the bike may not fit them and they don't ride because they're not comfortable with the bike and it hangs in their garage or worse yet, they ride despite the improper fit and they wind up damaging their joints, crashing or otherwise injuring themselves due to the poor fit.

Just because a rider rides a particular brand of bike doesn't mean it's the "right" bike for another rider. Many beginner level cyclists give well intentioned but ultimately poor advice based on the type of bike that they ride.

Nola: I'm glad you're enjoying your bike. I'm glad it's worked out for you. I wouldn't have taken the approach that you did (doesn't mean you're wrong) because I'm not experienced enough to know whether a frame that I've never ridden fits me based on comparing my body measurements with an OEM's frame specs. It's my opinion that you're giving poor advice to people.


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## Hellrazor666 (Oct 27, 2008)

Well Nola what might be good for you might not be good for someone else. Best bang for the buck doesn't insure proper fit and that is the most important thing.I could deal with a bike with pos components with a proper fit but to have decent parts with a improper fit I could not. Have fun with your bike though while it lasts :thumbsup:  I'm waiting for your next thread "How do I change flat "


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

NOLA, you sound like a big kid in this thread. what the other guy said is prtty accurate about you, that amatuers seem to only recommend their own bike, and have strong attachments to them. well guess what, the forge is a $399 target bike.

just because it has discs doesn't mean they're good ones. they're no better than decent v brakes. guess what? my friend's "JEEP" bike has a disc brake too. it sucks. the bottom spectrum of disc brakes start out at bb5's,anything under is a non-factor in buying a bike. 

the frame quality and weight is unknown and undocumented, can u weigh ur frame for us?
whoever said its made by giant, stop spreadind FUD. unless u find an official reference saying it is, stop spreading crap. the frame in the forge is what u pay for, u get what $399 - the cost of all the other parts = worth of frame. 

now, service. u dont even have any first hand experience with forge customer service. all you've read are a bunch of internet rumors. well guess what, i have a forge too and had a shitty ass experience with them. (just to show u what the internet is made of.) 

oh and btw, i thought u were leaving this thread. bye bye?

to the OP: u should def consider something else in the price range. the rockhopper or the cannondal f9 are nice bikes. u start with good quality frames and guaranteed high quality service from cdale/specialized/your lbs. they will also give u 1 year of free service so u have no downtime when anything goes wrong. u may be able to figure out how to fix something, but it may take u 1 hour. when they can fix it in 5 minutes, keep that in mind. and P.S. don't buy a bike from target


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

louisssss said:


> NOLA, you sound like a big kid in this thread. what the other guy said is prtty accurate about you, that amatuers seem to only recommend their own bike, and have strong attachments to them. well guess what, the forge is a $399 target bike.
> 
> just because it has discs doesn't mean they're good ones. they're no better than decent v brakes. guess what? my friend's "JEEP" bike has a disc brake too. it sucks. the bottom spectrum of disc brakes start out at bb5's,anything under is a non-factor in buying a bike.
> 
> ...


You people cant even stick to your same argument let alone insult someone else on this forum, the low end bikes you are suggesting even worse equipped then the forge when it comes to certain parts. Heres a suggestion for you, check the quality of the bike first before you complain about what store its sold it, bike shops sell junk bikes too.

Another person who looks soley at the name on a bike rather then the components they are equipped with.


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## CRed (Aug 4, 2007)

I'm beginning to think that if you replaced "Forge" with "Trek" that there wouldn't be nearly as much hate in this thread even if he had bought it online,but maybe not.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

Spawne32 said:


> You people cant even stick to your same argument let alone insult someone else on this forum, the low end bikes you are suggesting even worse equipped then the forge when it comes to certain parts. Heres a suggestion for you, check the quality of the bike first before you complain about what store its sold it, bike shops sell junk bikes too.
> 
> Another person who looks soley at the name on a bike rather then the components they are equipped with.


remmeber bub, u get what u pay for, and @ $399, ur not getting anything more than that. theres no such thing as a good deal in this world or a free ride. all the points have been argued already. i'll stick with something like a hardrock or a f9 with their reputation and free service and relationship with lbs and worry free warranty, and better looks.

btw, are forge frames hand made? jw...


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Ken in KC said:


> You're offering advice based on no actual mountain biking experience regarding the one and only mountain bike you've ever purchased and ridden... yesterday. .


Stop making stuff up.
Or show me where I ever mentioned that the Forge is the first mountain bike I've ever purchased or ridden.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

CRed said:


> I'm beginning to think that if you replaced "Forge" with "Trek" that there wouldn't be nearly as much hate in this thread even if he had bought it online,but maybe not.


UHHHHHH....GEE, Ya think??


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

nola_Prius said:


> Stop making stuff up.





nola_Prius said:


> I also read in several places that the frame is maybe built by Giant


you stop making stuff up. find me a document saying the frame is made by GIANT and you'll get your credibility back. if you can't then you're just an internet kid spreading fud.

hes not making stuff up, you DID just get ur forge recently and have had barely any mtbing experience. u dont know what are good parts and what are bad parts. u dont even have anything to compare it to. you're basing your recommendations on internet rumors kiddy


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

louisssss said:


> NOLA, you sound like a big kid in this thread. what the other guy said is prtty accurate about you, that amatuers seem to only recommend their own bike, and have strong attachments to them. well guess what, the forge is a $399 target bike.


Piss off, douchebag. The OP made a thread to inquire about the Forge Sawback, and I gave him a reply about it.



louisssss said:


> just because it has discs doesn't mean they're good ones. they're no better than decent v brakes. guess what? my friend's "JEEP" bike has a disc brake too. it sucks.


And what kind of disc brakes does your friend's "JEEP" have exactly?? Not worth mentioning the brand apparently.



louisssss said:


> the frame quality and weight is unknown and undocumented, can u weigh ur frame for us?
> whoever said its made by giant, stop spreadind FUD. unless u find an official reference saying it is, stop spreading crap. the frame in the forge is what u pay for, u get what $399 - the cost of all the other parts = worth of frame.


_I'm_ the big kid?? Yeah...whatever "u" say. 
Yes, I COULD weigh my frame. Will I? No.
I'm not going through the trouble of taking everything off and putting it back on for you.
I've read that the bike ready to ride weighs a little over 30 lbs.



louisssss said:


> now, service. u dont even have any first hand experience with forge customer service. all you've read are a bunch of internet rumors. well guess what, i have a forge too and had a shitty ass experience with them. (just to show u what the internet is made of.)


You're obviously a pessimist who likes to make negative assumptions. I hate people like you.



louisssss said:


> oh and btw, i thought u were leaving this thread. bye bye?


Nobody invited you. Don't address me and I won't respond.



louisssss said:


> to the OP: u should def consider something else in the price range. the rockhopper or the cannondal f9 are nice bikes. u start with good quality frames and guaranteed high quality service from cdale/specialized/your lbs. they will also give u 1 year of free service so u have no downtime when anything goes wrong. u may be able to figure out how to fix something, but it may take u 1 hour. when they can fix it in 5 minutes, keep that in mind. and P.S. don't buy a bike from target


OP, 
Don't listen to hipster douchebags like this guy. He has a small penis and feels the need to come into a beginner's forum and act like an internet tough guy. In life, be the opposite of him.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

louisssss said:


> you stop making stuff up. find me a document saying the frame is made by GIANT and you'll get your credibility back. if you can't then you're just an internet kid spreading fud.
> 
> hes not making stuff up, you DID just get ur forge recently and have had barely any mtbing experience. u dont know what are good parts and what are bad parts. u dont even have anything to compare it to. you're basing your recommendations on internet rumors kiddy


He absolutely made **** up. Two things. Saying I've never bought a mountain bike before and that I've never ridden one before.

I don't need to produce ANYTHING for you and I don't give a **** about my credibility in your eyes. You're an internet jerkoff who jumps into threads that have nothing to do with you. Get a life.
No internet rumors here. I test road your precious Trek and Giant namebrand bikes. I like the Forge better because it had better components for less money. You're a *****. See ya, KIDDY.


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## aznmode (Jul 27, 2009)

Wow this thread got out of hand.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

nola_Prius said:


> Piss off, douchebag. The OP made a thread to inquire about the Forge Sawback, and I gave him a reply about it.
> 
> And what kind of disc brakes does your friend's "JEEP" have exactly?? Not worth mentioning the brand apparently.
> 
> ...


HAHA I LOVE THIS THREAD, EAT A DICK!

my job is done here, i'll be sure to check out your future shows to get a good laugh. have fun with ur target bike kiddo. a small dick? how about u lick it?


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

aznmode said:


> Wow this thread got out of hand.


Well, what do you expect?
We have the OP, a self-proclaimed newbie, asking about a specific model bike.
We then have me, another newbie, with info and an opinion on that bike to offer him.
(Keep in mind, info and opinion are based from ACTUAL FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE with a Forge - unlike most, if not all, of the haters here)
We then have a few self-righteous folk who feel the need to come into a beginner's forum and bash a beginner for offering the exact info and opinion that the OP was asking for.

Wow! Typical internet forum behavior when brands and money are the subject matter!
xxforeverfallenxx was right! Internet forums suck! 

One last time:
OP, 
You will NOT be disappointed with the Forge Sawback 5xx.
I compared it to both Giant and Trek bikes in the same price range.
I beg you, SEE THROUGH THE ********!
It's a good bike.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

its a good bike from target. OP, look into a hardrock. you'll get the brand reputation, reputable quality frame, free service for a year. a bike that is more popular and more people will know how to help u fix things. and u can tell people u didn't get it at target. and + theres nothing wrong with pros coming in here to help newbies. its better when nubs like NOLA try to help someone else; would u ask a confused classmate to help u with calculus or would u ask the professor? 

are you seriously "begging"? you're begging while trying to get him to buy the bike u have? you've just made yourself a #1 amatuer, stand behind the bike u have by all means possible and that there is nothing wrong with it at all and its the best bike in everything.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

louisssss said:


> its a good bike from target. OP, look into a hardrock. you'll get the brand reputation, reputable quality frame, free service for a year. a bike that is more popular and more people will know how to help u fix things. and u can tell people u didn't get it at target. and + theres nothing wrong with pros coming in here to help newbies. its better when nubs like NOLA try to help someone else; would u ask a confused classmate to help u with calculus or would u ask the professor?
> 
> are you seriously "begging"? you're begging while trying to get him to buy the bike u have? you've just made yourself a #1 amatuer, stand behind the bike u have by all means possible and that there is nothing wrong with it at all and its the best bike in everything.


What I begged of him was to see through your and the other's bullshite about not being able to get a decent bike unless it's a major name brand that everyone else rides.

OP, 
Don't care what other people think about what you paid for your bike. Just laugh at those who think it's always necessary to spend more money. Don't be afraid to not follow the pack. The Forge will not let you down...unless you're a super bike rider that drops off 100' cliffs and jumps mountains...like louisssss.

I'm growing tired of this thread now...finally.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

nola_Prius said:


> What I begged of him was to see through your and the other's bullshite about not being able to get a decent bike unless it's a major name brand that everyone else rides.
> 
> OP,
> Don't care what other people think about what you paid for your bike. Just laugh at those who think it's always necessary to spend more money. Don't be afraid to not follow the pack. The Forge will not let you down...unless you're a super bike rider that drops off 100' cliffs and jumps mountains...like louisssss.
> ...


good cuz i'm just getting into it. i love to mess with kids like you that just spend their good money from target. remember, u always get what u pay for; and at 399 thats not much of a mtb. u begging him for some?? you'd gladly give it to him if he got a forge wouldn't ya! dont forget to take pics.

nobodys spending more money than necessary, just that we have more than you do.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

louisssss said:


> good cuz i'm just getting into it. i love to mess with kids like you that just spend their good money from target. remember, u always get what u pay for; and at 399 thats not much of a mtb. u begging him for some?? you'd gladly give it to him if he got a forge wouldn't ya! dont forget to take pics.
> 
> nobodys spending more money than necessary, just that we have more than you do.


You don't even pose an argument. You're just an idiot for the sake of being an idiot.
Have fun playing with yourself.
I'm outa here.


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## victim (Aug 10, 2006)

I wouldn't by a forge bike because some dude by the moniker of "nola_Prius" is such a fan boi I couldn't be associated with him in anyway, no matter how great of deal the bike is.


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## MonkeyTrail (Oct 1, 2008)

does that have the 5xx in 19 which is the newer model the blue or charcoal one?
http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5blu.asp
http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5charcoal.asp

which is the nicer looking one?

Do both have the same parts because looking at the pics look different to me im just new to the whole Mtbr thing?

THX


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## jbikepaddle (Oct 27, 2008)

I can't believe I'm making this my first post. . .

I remember looking at the Forge back when it was $299. I was definitely interested. In fact, if I could have demo'd one, I might have bought one. Here's what I found instead.

I went to the bike shops looking for a C-Dale F7, Spec Hardrock, and Trek 4300. All of them were of similar spec. The rides were vastly different. I didn't like any of them so I moved up my price range.

I narrowed that to the F5 and Trek 6000. Again, similarly spec'd. Different rides. I chose the F5 because it felt great for me. The Forge, at the time, was spec'd similarly to the F5 and 6000. 

Obviously, you don't want to feel ripped off by paying $400 for a bike that is spec'd like a $150 WalMart Schwinn. Then you'd really feel like you've paid for the name.

On the other hand, the important lesson I learned is that component spec is not the whole story. I know now that I'll never buy a bike I have not ridden first.


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## Eric Z (Sep 28, 2008)

MonkeyTrail said:


> does that have the 5xx in 19 which is the newer model the blue or charcoal one?
> http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5blu.asp
> http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5charcoal.asp
> 
> ...


i'm actually a little bit afraid to post something in this thread 

whichever one you think looks nicer is the one that looks nicer for you- personally, think both look just okay, but if i had to choose, it would be the gray one.

if your budget is just $350 or whatever the forge bike costs plus plus those discounts, then the forge may be your best bet. i would still recommend going into a LBS to see what they can get you for a similar price. as others have said fit is important, that's 100% correct. when nora said the forge felt as good or better than the trek and giant, that doesn't mean a forge is a better bike, it just happened to fit him better than the others. that's why i always lean toward a LBS because you can actually see, feel, and ride the bike.

if you can stretch your budget to $500 or $600 as you mentioned in your first post, forget the forge and look at 09s in your LBS and see what deals they can give you. go to all LBSs within a bunch of miles to see what they have- i sometimes see amazing deals out there.

good luck and enjoy!
ez

p.s. you can still have a good relationship with a LBS if you didn't buy your bike from them, but if they sold you their bike, it's more common for them to swap out parts that make it fit/run better.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*You're acting like a tool....*



nola_Prius said:


> Stop making stuff up.
> Or show me where I ever mentioned that the Forge is the first mountain bike I've ever purchased or ridden.


You really are acting like a tool. You don't want to discuss the point of my response but rather want to pick nits regarding your lack of any credible mountain biking experience? Okay, since you asked.... I copy and pasted this from your profile, that you authored and that I most certainly didn't make up:



Nola's Profile said:


> From
> (City, State or Country):
> United States
> Year started riding:
> ...


So.... what you posted was that you've "not yet purchased" a mountain bike and that you started riding in 2009. What I posted was: "You're offering advice based on no actual mountain biking experience regarding the one and only mountain bike you've ever purchased and ridden... yesterday. ." Rereading what I posted, I can see how someone who's not very good at reading for context may be confused by what I wrote, so I'll clarify: You're offering advice based on no actual mountain biking experience regarding the one and only mountain bike you've ever purchased and ridden on a trail... yesterday. .

For clarity: I have two mountain bikes. I'll extend my offer to you as well: I'll give you $1,000 USD if you can find where I've ever suggested to anyone in this forum that they should ride the type of bike that I ride. And since we're playing the "prove it" game, I'd be interested if you can identify what my two mountain bikes actually are.

You've been here less than a month and yet you're already an expert on whether someone's a douchbag, a-hole or "typical internet jerk-off". You've done a lot of name calling and casting specious logic like fertilizer. It seems to me that you're projecting.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

MonkeyTrail said:


> does that have the 5xx in 19 which is the newer model the blue or charcoal one?
> http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5blu.asp
> http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5charcoal.asp
> 
> ...


charcol is the newest one, as well as the red, but red is 17", i prefer the newer ones because of the avid bb5 brake system, but personally i think the darker blue looks better.


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## MonkeyTrail (Oct 1, 2008)

nice i like both but i think the charcol looks better to my eye. Does anyone have a real pic i have google the pics did find one but need a better pic to check it out

THX


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

there is a thread about the sawback in the bike frame sub forum just below this one


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## aznmode (Jul 27, 2009)

MonkeyTrail said:


> nice i like both but i think the charcol looks better to my eye. Does anyone have a real pic i have google the pics did find one but need a better pic to check it out
> 
> THX


It looks like the charcoal has free shipping vs the blue. Maybe that is enough deciding factor? The blue and silver were the original colors about 2 yrs ago. Charcoal and red came this year. IMO the charcoal looks unique and should have the BB5 brakes like the red.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

aznmode said:


> It looks like the charcoal has free shipping vs the blue. Maybe that is enough deciding factor? The blue and silver were the original colors about 2 yrs ago. Charcoal and red came this year. IMO the charcoal looks unique and should have the BB5 brakes like the red.


I really like the charcoal color, but it's only offered in the 19". 
I just got back from my fourth day in a row of riding.
So far, so good!
The Hayes brakes work just fine. They stop the bike on a dime...if I need to do so.

Nothing has fallen off and I haven't broken my frame in half yet...I'm shocked!! 
Jumped up and down quite a few smaller ledges too (up to 1"), and it's still working and shifting as perfectly as the day I picked it up from the shop.
Go Forge!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: two thumbs up!

My ass hurts a bit, but probably mostly due to its tenderness.
I'm probably gonna end up replacing the seat soon anyway, just for a little added comfort.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

nola_Prius said:


> Nothing has fallen off and I haven't broken my frame!! I'm shocked!!
> Jumped up and down quite a few smaller ledges too (up to 1"), and it's still working and shifting as perfectly as the day I picked it up from the shop.


1" huh??
that doesn't say much..

durability is not the only mark of a good bike


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Lambdamaster said:


> 1" huh??
> that doesn't say much..
> 
> durability is not the only mark of a good bike


So sorry, I meant 1'. My bad.
Well, after riding it for the 4th day in a row, I can say now that it suits my needs just fine and I'm happy that I didn't waste money unnecessarily to get a popular name brand bike with similar components. 
Thanks for posting.

edit - I just wanted to point out that my last post was in response to what aznmode said. It wasn't necessary for you to jump in only to nitpick and challenge it. I'm not here to argue anymore.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

I thought this was an open forum for discussion. Sorry for trespassing on your thread.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

nola_Prius said:


> So sorry, I meant 1'. My bad.
> Well, after riding it for the 4th day in a row, I can say now that it suits my needs just fine and I'm happy that I didn't waste money unnecessarily to get a popular name brand bike with similar components.
> Thanks for posting.
> 
> edit - I just wanted to point out that my last post was in response to what aznmode said. It wasn't necessary for you to jump in only to nitpick and challenge it. I'm not here to argue anymore.


LOL you're asking for it here. you're clearly baiting every other member when u say crap like that. your posts are all a joke to me. YOU are a joke with your joke bike. i saw one at my local target today, it looked like a toy targeted at kiddies.

there are no GOOD "popular name brand" bike with a shitty Dart 1, (i've NEVER even see a dart 1 fork on any name brand bike) ITS NINJA tires? cool
you guys are drooling over some low end bb5 brakes that can be had for $30 each? haha. i guess stopping is what u guys love to do. i hate stopping!

hope you're happy with ur toy bike. be sure to tell everyone u got it at ur Local Target Shitshop


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Thought I'd stir the pot some more.

You truly do get what you pay for. For those of you who buy a Forge or other similar type of thing, are you remembering to add the cost of assembly AND the cost of tuning as the bike breaks in? Seems to me that once you add that together, you end up with something no less expensive than a comparable LBS bike. Then you get the unmeasurables. I worked for a shop in the past who kept a very lengthy list of dept store bikes that they would never service. Yep, that's right...no professional labor. They'd sell parts, but would not work on them because it was exceptionally difficult to impossible to get the bikes working to the standards of the shop mechs. And if the bikes did not work satisfactorily, it was a ripoff to send it home saying it was fixed. So they don't pretend.

So in fact, you may find you cannot get shop service with your Forge bike. Hm, that's a pisser, eh?

Fit is so important to buying a bike, I will drive many hours and stay in a hotel to visit a shop where I can try out different brands. I'm actually planning such a trip. Nope, I won't buy a bike on this visit, because I plan on trying other bikes at other shops, too. That will mean that when I actually go to make a purchase, I'll probably be staying in a hotel then, too.

I've been mountain biking for 9 years now. I worked in a shop for almost 2 (I'd have stayed if my wife didn't find a job elsewhere...I enjoyed the work). I've also built many miles of trails (even had one named after me). I may not be an expert about certain things, but I know what I'm talking about.

I started with a $300 bike. It was good for riding around campus and the occasional off-road jaunt. Once I got serious about mtb, I trashed the bike in short order. My next bike was about $600...made in the USA. Only mid-level Deore components, but that bike is still going 8yrs later. Only thing it needs is a new chain. I've also ridden a $1600 FS back when bikes were a lot cheaper. Same thing would cost you well over $2k nowadays. I've ridden a few bikes, and while I may be more open about what I ride than Ken, I guarantee you won't find me recommending the same thing to anyone on this forum.

Back when I sold bikes, there was the inexpensive basic stuff. I recommended those bikes for kids tooling around the neighborhood or for college students needing to get to class. They could handle a little abuse, but weren't built for much. If a customer wanted a real mountain bike for real off-road riding on a regular basis, they had to spend more. It wasn't all about the components, but it was also about the frame build. The bikes made for regular off-road use were lighter, made with more precision, and were built with features that accounted for more abuse. The cheaper ones looked like mountain bikes, but no matter what components you slapped on them, they still only looked like mountain bikes. They were more akin to a comfort bike in actual performance. You can ride an easy trail now and again on a comfort bike, too. But both will fall apart in short order with regular off-road abuse. They just aren't built for it.

Try before you buy. If you can't try it, don't buy it. That applies to anything where fit is a major criterion. I won't buy shoes on the web, either. Nor will I buy sunglasses, eyeglasses, or anything like that. I won't buy a car unless I can test drive it. It's not because I'm snotty about brands...it's because that intangible, "feel" is the most important of all. If it doesn't "feel" right, then it's not for me.

I also understand about service and support in the event of a problem. I really don't understand how a LBS who doesn't deal with Forge at all can somehow obtain warranty service for a customer who bought the bike from Target. Shouldn't you be going through Target for that? You didn't buy the bike from the shop...how are they responsible for using their time to seek warranty support? That's very strange to me. Anytime I need a Specialized-specific part I have to find a Spesh dealer. I can't get service for brand-specific parts through a Trek dealer. Can't even get a new derailleur hanger that way.

The shop I worked for had carried a few other brands in the past, and while they didn't currently carry them, they still worked with the mfr with warranty concerns if the situation arose with a past customer. But that shop had to maintain a relationship with the mfr in order to do so.

You get nearly no service or support with the Forge, so when you need service you have to pay for it, and if you need support you've got a headache on your hands.

A newbie is the type of rider who needs extra service and support with a new bike purchase, so incessantly recommending brands that include none or less than what can be had at a LBS is rather shortsighted.

By the way, at 14, I was correcting writing samples of grown adults for grammar errors, so be careful what you assume.


----------



## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

louisssss said:


> LOL you're asking for it here. you're clearly baiting every other member when u say crap like that. your posts are all a joke to me. YOU are a joke with your joke bike. i saw one at my local target today, it looked like a toy targeted at kiddies.
> 
> there are no GOOD "popular name brand" bike with a shitty Dart 1, (i've NEVER even see a dart 1 fork on any name brand bike) ITS NINJA tires? cool
> you guys are drooling over some low end bb5 brakes that can be had for $30 each? haha. i guess stopping is what u guys love to do. i hate stopping!
> ...


Get a life.
Target doesn't sell the Forge bikes in stores.
No, the tires are not Ninja tires.
I'm just another satisfied Forge customer. That bothers you and I laugh because of it.
The OP already contacted me through PM. He is probably going with the Sawback.
I'm sure he will be yet another satisfied Forge customer.
I don't feel like wasting any more of my time on you.
See ya later.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> Thought I'd stir the pot some more.
> 
> You truly do get what you pay for. For those of you who buy a Forge or other similar type of thing, are you remembering to add the cost of assembly AND the cost of tuning as the bike breaks in?


Don't forget about the 14% discount and possibly free shipping. You gotta figure that in too, ya know.



NateHawk said:


> I worked for a shop in the past who kept a very lengthy list of dept store bikes that they would never service. Yep, that's right...no professional labor. They'd sell parts, but would not work on them because it was exceptionally difficult to impossible to get the bikes working to the standards of the shop mechs. And if the bikes did not work satisfactorily, it was a ripoff to send it home saying it was fixed. So they don't pretend.


Really? That's kinda crappy to refuse service to a paying customer.
The guy at my bike shop straight out told me that he thought the Forge was a good deal for the amount I paid for it. He also said something along the lines of "be sure to come back if you want another tune up."



NateHawk said:


> So in fact, you may find you cannot get shop service with your Forge bike. Hm, that's a pisser, eh?


It would be a pisser if it was true, but it isn't... therefore it's not a pisser.



NateHawk said:


> I started with a $300 bike. It was good for riding around campus and the occasional off-road jaunt. Once I got serious about mtb, I trashed the bike in short order.


Well, considering this is the BEGINNER'S forum. . . do you think any beginners plan to put their new bike through serious abuse? Probably not.

If anyone is seriously considering the Forge bike, it will most likely be more than enough bike for their needs, ya know what I mean? I think that's pretty much a fact.



NateHawk said:


> If a customer wanted a real mountain bike for real off-road riding on a regular basis, they had to spend more. It wasn't all about the components, but it was also about the frame build. The bikes made for regular off-road use were lighter, made with more precision, and were built with features that accounted for more abuse. The cheaper ones looked like mountain bikes, but no matter what components you slapped on them, they still only looked like mountain bikes. They were more akin to a comfort bike in actual performance. You can ride an easy trail now and again on a comfort bike, too. But both will fall apart in short order with regular off-road abuse. They just aren't built for it.


I don't think I or anyone else ever disputed any of those statements.



NateHawk said:


> Try before you buy. If you can't try it, don't buy it. That applies to anything where fit is a major criterion. I won't buy shoes on the web, either. Nor will I buy sunglasses, eyeglasses, or anything like that. I won't buy a car unless I can test drive it. It's not because I'm snotty about brands...it's because that intangible, "feel" is the most important of all. If it doesn't "feel" right, then it's not for me.


I hear ya on this. In fact, my second post suggested that the OP go to shops and try some bikes... if not only to get an approximate size that he'll need.
I did it, and found out that I need about a 17". The 17" Forge is working out great for me.



NateHawk said:


> I also understand about service and support in the event of a problem. I really don't understand how a LBS who doesn't deal with Forge at all can somehow obtain warranty service for a customer who bought the bike from Target. Shouldn't you be going through Target for that? You didn't buy the bike from the shop...how are they responsible for using their time to seek warranty support? That's very strange to me. Anytime I need a Specialized-specific part I have to find a Spesh dealer. I can't get service for brand-specific parts through a Trek dealer. Can't even get a new derailleur hanger that way.


From what I've read several people say, Forge covered some replacements through a local shop. I don't plan on abusing my bike, so I really don't expect anything on it to outright break. If something does, then that's where the warranty will come into play.



NateHawk said:


> You get nearly no service or support with the Forge, so when you need service you have to pay for it


That's not necessarily true. From what experience do you base that claim?



NateHawk said:


> A newbie is the type of rider who needs extra service and support with a new bike purchase, so incessantly recommending brands that include none or less than what can be had at a LBS is rather shortsighted.


Like I said earlier in the thread, I tried out a couple name brand bikes at local shops, although mostly with intentions of trying out different sizes.
Sure, buying anything without seeing it and especially something that requires a certain fit is a bit of a gamble. However, it worked out for me and a bunch of others.
Worst case scenario - you return it for a full refund just like Spawne32 did. (at least I think it was Spawne32)



NateHawk said:


> By the way, at 14, I was correcting writing samples of grown adults for grammar errors, so be careful what you assume.


That's great. I too took a genuine interest in learning my language at a young age. I don't understand why more people don't do the same. I really think it's kinda sad and pathetic that something as basic and essential as one's LANGUAGE is ignored and treated with such folly.
I don't know if that "be careful what you assume" was directed at me or not. I don't remember making any assumptions about age and grammar. Somebody else did make the assumption that everyone on here was 14, though.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

guys, your never gona get the kinda service that a lbs provides when buying an 800 dollar beginner bike if you go with a cheap forge bike. You get what you pay for, if you buy a forge your not gona get the kinda things you get at a bike shop, like free subway sandwiches for a year, free Gatorade bottle cleaning and disposing services, free phone support, onstar for bicycles. Imagine what it would be like if you broke your leg on the trail on a 400 dollar forge bike without the services provided at your local bike shop, you just cant compare the two.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

nola_Prius said:


> Get a life.
> Target doesn't sell the Forge bikes in stores.
> No, the tires are not Ninja tires.
> I'm just another satisfied Forge customer. That bothers you and I laugh because of it.
> ...


nah nah i have a life, its to piss u off.

http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5charcoal.asp
Tires: ITS NINJA 26X2.1"
ITS NINJA WOOT

you'll be satisfied till your bike falls apart and u need to fix **** that u dont know how to fix. i dont know how to fix everything either but my shop is giving me LIFETIME, yes LIFETIME adjustments on the drivetrain and brakes. whos gunna do urs, your mom? (oh boy do i have a joke here but i'll save it so u dont cry)

anyway, i hope everyone knows i'm here just to bust your balls because they seem to be far up your ass along with ur forgey. i'm having a blast. i know you'll be back.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

louisssss said:


> nah nah i have a life, its to piss u off.
> 
> http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5charcoal.asp
> Tires: ITS NINJA 26X2.1"
> ...


And I'm here for you one last time... just to prove you wrong AGAIN.

NOT Ninja.
Get a REAL life.
See ya for real this time. Don't be sad. :cryin: :cryin:


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

For MonkeyTrail because he asked for a few pics
and for anyone else considering a Forge who wants to see some pics...


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Spawne32 said:


> guys, your never gona get the kinda service that a lbs provides when buying an 800 dollar beginner bike if you go with a cheap forge bike. You get what you pay for, if you buy a forge your not gona get the kinda things you get at a bike shop, like free subway sandwiches for a year, free Gatorade bottle cleaning and disposing services, free phone support, onstar for bicycles. Imagine what it would be like if you broke your leg on the trail on a 400 dollar forge bike without the services provided at your local bike shop, you just cant compare the two.


lol......actual humor. I like it.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

nola_Prius said:


> Really? That's kinda crappy to refuse service to a paying customer.
> The guy at my bike shop straight out told me that he thought the Forge was a good deal for the amount I paid for it. He also said something along the lines of "be sure to come back if you want another tune up."


If the bike is impossible to properly set up, is that really that crappy? Sure, the customer won't be happy because it forces them to deal with the reality that they bought a POS bike. But in the end that helps them because they have to service their own bike and realize what a POS they really have. The shop in that case is protecting themselves from complaining customers who bring their bike in to be fixed...but the shop mech can't truly fix it because the frame isn't right or the components are so cheap they don't hold an adjustment or whatever. Someone on here recently commented about this fact in reference to helping local kids with their bikes. The service he provided was strictly volunteer, so he just did the best he could. But imagine paying for service and getting back something that still doesn't work right. That's how cheap bikes are.



nola_Prius said:


> It would be a pisser if it was true, but it isn't... therefore it's not a pisser.


That may be the case now, but can you guarantee that it will always be the case? What if you move?



nola_Prius said:


> Well, considering this is the BEGINNER'S forum. . . do you think any beginners plan to put their new bike through serious abuse? Probably not.


It happens more than you might think. Beginner buys a beginner bike, but his/her skill level outgrows the bike. That's what happened with me. I didn't buy the bike and instantly trash it. I rode within its limits at first, and it held up fine. But I got better, then trashed it.



nola_Prius said:


> If anyone is seriously considering the Forge bike, it will most likely be more than enough bike for their needs, ya know what I mean? I think that's pretty much a fact.


Is it now? With the economy what it is now, folks are trying to save money. Folks on the edge might be deceived into believing that an inexpensive internet or dept store bike really is saving them money. In reality, they're just having to pay for things that are included in the cost of a bike at an LBS. If I ran an LBS that sold bikes in boxes and charged for assembly, you'd better believe that I'd be charging less for the bikes outright and still getting the same profit margins. And then when a customer does it themselves and does it wrong, I'd still charge an assembly fee. Does that sound shady to you? Sounds shady to me...assembly should be part of buying a bike...not an extra.



nola_Prius said:


> I hear ya on this. In fact, my second post suggested that the OP go to shops and try some bikes... if not only to get an approximate size that he'll need.
> I did it, and found out that I need about a 17". The 17" Forge is working out great for me.


That's nice in theory, except that not all bike brands fit the same. Many people could be an 18" in one brand or a 19.5" in another. How do you propose someone deals with that?



nola_Prius said:


> From what I've read several people say, Forge covered some replacements through a local shop. I don't plan on abusing my bike, so I really don't expect anything on it to outright break. If something does, then that's where the warranty will come into play.


So, basing a statement on rumor? That's great. I, on the other hand, based my statement on experience on working in a shop and dealing with the occasional warranty issue.



nola_Prius said:


> That's not necessarily true. From what experience do you base that claim?


You don't get the same level of service and support with a Forge that you get with a bike bought from a local dealer. When you walk out the store with your bike, it comes assembled and properly adjusted. When your Forge arrives in the mail, it's in the box unassembled. When your LBS bike needs maintenance, you know any shop will service it. With a Forge, some shops won't touch it so you may have to visit a couple first. If you need warranty service, you know where to go to get a warranty dealt with. Buying from a dept store or internet dealer leaves you with question marks, possible shipping of the bike to the mfr on your own dime, dead ends on the phone, and a strong likelihood that you cannot have your broken frame dealt with adequately.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> If the bike is impossible to properly set up, is that really that crappy? Sure, the customer won't be happy because it forces them to deal with the reality that they bought a POS bike. But in the end that helps them because they have to service their own bike and realize what a POS they really have.


Yeah, I see what you're saying...but we're talking specifically about the Forge Sawback 5xx here, which apparently isn't impossible to properly set up.
Not to say that there aren't bikes out there that ARE, but this doesn't seem to be one of them, and this is the bike we're talking about.



NateHawk said:


> That may be the case now, but can you guarantee that it will always be the case? What if you move?


Can I guarantee that he won't refuse to help me if I need it? I guess not...but I doubt that will happen.
What if I move? I don't plan on it, but if I did move, I'd find a shop that would work on it. It wasn't difficult for me. The first shop I brought it to is the one that I paid to assemble and tune it.



NateHawk said:


> It happens more than you might think. Beginner buys a beginner bike, but his/her skill level outgrows the bike. That's what happened with me. I didn't buy the bike and instantly trash it. I rode within its limits at first, and it held up fine. But I got better, then trashed it.


Absolutely. I'm a realistic person and I understand that will most likely happen eventually. It's just that it had been 12+ years since I've ridden a bike, and figured that this would serve me perfectly for a while. I was a kid when I last rode on a regular basis (or at all really), and my standards are still pretty low...ya know what I mean? I don't see an upgrade anytime soon, but eventually I'm sure it will happen. (if I stick with the sport, like I plan to)



NateHawk said:


> Folks on the edge might be deceived into believing that an inexpensive internet or dept store bike really is saving them money. In reality, they're just having to pay for things that are included in the cost of a bike at an LBS. If I ran an LBS that sold bikes in boxes and charged for assembly, you'd better believe that I'd be charging less for the bikes outright and still getting the same profit margins. And then when a customer does it themselves and does it wrong, I'd still charge an assembly fee. Does that sound shady to you? Sounds shady to me...assembly should be part of buying a bike...not an extra.


 The 14% I saved just about covered the assembly and tuneup costs from the local shop. 
I bought something at location A, but brought it to location B to be assembled. I didn't expect it to be free. It's not shady, it's just business.



NateHawk said:


> That's nice in theory, except that not all bike brands fit the same. Many people could be an 18" in one brand or a 19.5" in another. How do you propose someone deals with that?


However they want to. 
It worked out just fine for me.



NateHawk said:


> When you walk out the store with your bike, it comes assembled and properly adjusted.


That's exactly what I experienced.



NateHawk said:


> With a Forge, some shops won't touch it so you may have to visit a couple first.


If I went to a shop and they "wouldn't touch" my bike, I'd immediately assume that they were either underskilled or a bunch of *******s... then I'd go somewhere else.
However, like I said, the first shop I went to had no problem whatsoever putting it together and tuning it. Once again, the guy even admitted to me that he thought it was a good deal.



NateHawk said:


> Buying from a dept store or internet dealer leaves you with question marks, possible shipping of the bike to the mfr on your own dime, dead ends on the phone, and a strong likelihood that you cannot have your broken frame dealt with adequately.


That is certainly true with most online transactions, but judging from Forge's user reviews, which are overwhelmingly positive, it shouldn't be a problem if I need it.

No offense, but it seems that nothing new is being discussed here.
I'm not sure why the same questions and points keep getting brought up over and over and over. Thank god we have louissssssssssssssssssssss's idiocy to spice it up a little. 

ps - I appreciate and respect your complete sentences, thoughts, and opinions. I feel like I'm dealing with an adult.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

nola_Prius said:


> Don't forget about the 14% discount and possibly free shipping. You gotta figure that in too, ya know.


FROM TARGET.COM = the bike is from target



> Really? That's kinda crappy to refuse service to a paying customer.
> The guy at my bike shop straight out told me that he thought the Forge was a good deal for the amount I paid for it. He also said something along the lines of "be sure to come back if you want another tune up."


u sure its not because he wants your money? HAHAHA u paid for that **** didn't u
i haven't paid for a single tune up yet. and i dont plan on it hahahaa of course you'll be back for another tune up!!!



> It would be a pisser if it was true, but it isn't... therefore it's not a pisser.


it is true when he just said it happened. its def a pisser because my lbs frowns upon fixing cheap bikes also, u should see how they talk **** about and see the amount of time they dedicate to fixing it. def a pisser



> Well, considering this is the BEGINNER'S forum. . . do you think any beginners plan to put their new bike through serious abuse? Probably not.


plan on being a beginner all your life huh. or at least for the life of ur beginner bike? another few weeks before it starts to fall apart anyway.



> If anyone is seriously considering the Forge bike, it will most likely be more than enough bike for their needs, ya know what I mean? I think that's pretty much a *fact*.


why are you passing your opinion and unintelligibly as fact. a statement cannot be a fact if it starts with IF.



> I hear ya on this. In fact, my second post suggested that the OP go to shops and try some bikes... if not only to get an approximate size that he'll need.
> I did it, and found out that I need about a 17". The 17" Forge is working out great for me.


trying out any random 17" bike doesn't mean ****. different geometry is different. a 17" stumpjumper HT doesn't feel the same as a 17" rockhopper.



> From what I've read several people say, Forge covered some replacements through a local shop. I don't plan on abusing my bike, so I really don't expect anything on it to outright break. If something does, then that's where the warranty will come into play.


find me a reference proving that forge will have a local bike shop fix their warranty problems for you free of charge. if you can't find a reference from forge saying this then stop lying and spreading fud. i've already asked u to find a reference saying its made by giant; where is it?



> Like I said earlier in the thread, I tried out a couple name brand bikes at local shops, although mostly with intentions of trying out different sizes.
> Sure, buying anything without seeing it and especially something that requires a certain fit is a bit of a gamble. However, it worked out for me and a bunch of others.
> Worst case scenario - you return it for a full refund just like Spawne32 did. (at least I think it was Spawne32)


if he did return it, he def made the right decision in getting a higher quality bike.



> That's great. I too took a genuine interest in learning my language at a young age. I don't understand why more people don't do the same. I really think it's kinda sad and pathetic that something as basic and essential as one's LANGUAGE is ignored and treated with such folly.
> I don't know if that "be careful what you assume" was directed at me or not. I don't remember making any assumptions about age and grammar. Somebody else did make the assumption that everyone on here was 14, though.


nobody gives a **** about your language skills. this is a bike forum. if u want to practice ur english go write some novels. ever think that not everyone on this forum doesn't have english as their native language? unintelligent nola unintelligent.


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## Kneescar (Feb 26, 2009)

I love these threads for two reasons. 

1) The idiots on this forum make their presence known and I know (if I didn't already) who to bypass whenever I see one of their posts. 

2) The experienced voice of reason types chime in and I get some valuable insight from them.

OP: My advice to you is the same as a couple other people have mentioned: test ride as many bikes as you can before buying. I test rode Giant, Trek, Specialized, Jamis, Gary Fisher and Cannondale bikes before deciding on an F4. I'm glad I did my research and rode as many bikes as I did because I know have a bike that fits well and is an absolute tank durability-wise which is an issue for me. I don't really rag any bike except for the wallyworld specials but in this case, I think that being a newbie, you'd be best off with the help and advice an LBS will give you if you buy from them. I know that mine was a great help and there were a couple of times that without them, I would have been sh*t out of luck as far as minor repairs went. 

Stick around and browse the forum as much as you can - you'll get an eye for who the people are that actually offer good advice and those who just whore brands because they own one. Nacho, Nate and Ken are three guys that fit into the former category. I won't waste time naming those who fall into the latter. 

Whatever you do, I wish you the best of luck with your riding. Let us know how it goes. :thumbsup:


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

A few questions...



Kneescar said:


> I know have a bike that fits well and is an absolute tank durability-wise which is an issue for me.


 Did this particular "NEWBIE" specify that he implicitly needs a bike that will stand up to deliberate "abuse" as you put it?
Do any Forge reviews imply that it is a frail POS? (none that I seen have)



Kneescar said:


> I would have been sh*t out of luck as far as minor repairs went.


I'm also a self-proclaimed newbie when it comes to the ins and outs of bike mechanics, but what is an example of something on the Forge that might entail such difficulty for an experienced repairman, should problems arise?



Kneescar said:


> Stick around and browse the forum as much as you can - you'll get an eye for who the people are that actually offer good advice and those who just whore brands because they own one.


If John Doe asks for information and opinions on a SPECIFIC MAKE AND MODEL bike, then John Smith comes along to give him firsthand information and an opinion on that SPECIFIC MAKE AND MODEL bike, does that really make John Smith a whore?
Would that also make those who don't offer firsthand information and opinions on THAT SPECIFIC MAKE AND MODEL bike presumptuous pessimists?
What about one the ones that ignore the OP's request and instead suggest _their_ specific make and model bike? (While also not really having firsthand experience with the specific make and model in order to give a valid opinion on its build quality.) Are they not whores too? Or even worse, uninformed ones?



Kneescar said:


> Whatever you do, I wish you the best of luck with your riding. Let us know how it goes. :thumbsup:


Ditto to the OP.


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## aznmode (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm one of the unfortunate ones who purchased from an LBS who did not provide any free services. So it isn't always the case that every LBS will give you that free service. I also used to own a Forge and I've gotten more out of Target than the LBS I bought my Rockhopper from. Target issued me a $40 gift card for informing them that the bike wasn't properly tuned. But what I got from buying a Forge was more than that. It brought me into MTB and have learned a lot about mountain bikes. I put together and tuned the Forge myself. Granted it took me a few hours tuning it but it was good a learning experience for me. I can now say I'm pretty self sufficient. It's been about 2 months since I got into MTB. I've upgraded my Rockhopper to 27 speed with new cassette, chain, and shifters. Adjust my x5 rear derailleur to work with the 9 speed cassette. I know it's simple stuff to some of the veterans here but I'm proud what I've learned in a few months. And If it weren't for the Forge and it's price tag, I don't know if I would be biking today. And the 2 reasons I returned the Forge was because I thought it was a little too large for me and I wanted a brand named bike. But it was a great bike when I had it. I rode about 5 times when I had it and I never had any issues. IMO it had better drive train than my Rockhopper stock which is now 2x as much as the Forge with all the upgrades I've done to it. My next upgrade is 175mm crank arm so I'm spending another $70-80. The Forge already had a 175mm crank. Sometimes I wish I wouldve just kept the Forge and just upgraded the forks which would've cost me less than the Rockhopper stock. I think for a beginner it's a great bike for the price. If you decide to upgrade later to a name brand or a mid level bike you wont lose as much as if you bought a $600+ bike. As a beginner, I think it's tough enough trying to decide which bike to go with, let alone a month later you decide the bike you purchased for $600+ you're pretty much stuck with or lose $$ trying to sell it. My LBS would never take any bike back after 1 month of use. Atleast with the Forge, I was able to return it and I didn't lose a penny. Sometimes I still wish I had the Forge but I sorta fell into the name brand thing. I think that's more of a beginners error than anything. i should've just enjoyed riding with the Forge than worrying about what others would think about the brand of bike I had.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*I'l take this one...*



nola_Prius said:


> A few questions...
> 
> If John Doe asks for information and opinions on a SPECIFIC MAKE AND MODEL BIKE, then John Smith comes along to give him firsthand information and an opinion on that SPECIFIC MAKE AND MODEL bike, does that really make John Smith a whore?
> Would that also make those who don't offer firsthand information and opinions on THAT SPECIFIC MAKE AND MODEL BIKE presumptuous pessimists?


I guess you didn't like my answer to this the first time, since you didn't respond to the post other than to call me a liar.

The answer to your question is one I've already offered:

You're offering advice based on no actual mountain biking experience regarding the one and only mountain bike you've ever purchased and ridden... yesterday.

Since you didn't like the kayak metaphor, does this one work for you: Who would you rather take flying advice from: A guy who could recite flight instruction manuals verbatim based on his research but had only one actual flight under his belt or a guy who was an IP, had been flying for decades with multiple types of aircraft?

It may not make you a whore but it certainly makes you a biased fanboy with absolutely zero context on which to based your opinion.

When a beginner with little or no mountain biking experience asks a question, there are some of us who try and provide an educated answer. Even if they ask the wrong question. Answering the very specific question without perspective is a disservice to the person asking the question. Since you have an extremely difficult time reading for context, I'll go ahead and spell it out for you in an example:

Question: I'm about to purchase brand X. I'm looking for opinions on brand X.

Answer 1: I just purchased my first mountain bike, it's brand X and it's AWESOME!!!!! I rode it for the first time yesterday and I'm extremely happy with this bike!!! You should definitely buy one.

Answer 2: Before you purchase any bike, you should test ride as many different models as you can to determine which bike fits you best. As a new and inexperienced rider, I would suggest steering away from a bike you can't test ride because the fit is so critical in purchasing a bike.
***

Answer 1 answered the specific question but it didn't really provide any useful insight.

Answer 2 didn't answer the specific question but it did provide solid and proper advice.


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## ProjectBomber (Jun 9, 2008)

Wait a minute! I never got the free Subway sandwich and Gatorade deal. I think I got ripped off from my lbs. 

On a serious note, this thread was incredibly entertaining. It wasn't particularly educational, but nonetheless it was fun reading the banter of two truly skilled keyboard warriors going at it. I think you both brought up valid points to support your particular view points, and best of all you kept people entertained while doing so. I know I was entertained, and I typically leave threads like this once they start into the back in fourth posts between people other than the OP. You two could seriously make this a career, and I mean that with all due respect. 

As for the OP's original issue... I would say take everything you read on the internet and hear from you LBS with a grain of salt. It is human nature to serve one's own interests and this subject is no different. I purchased my bike from an lbs that had a killer deal on the bike I had lusted after for a while. I rode every bike in my price range first and then made my decision. I will say that the deal I got on my bike was not everything I originally thought it was. I purchased the bike from the shop with the best price and have learned that the extra money I would have spent would have gained me many perks at other shops. 

I guess I would say, get to know as many shops as you can, not everyone is the same and it always pays to have lots of friends in this sport.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Ken in KC said:


> You're offering advice based on no actual mountain biking experience regarding the one and only mountain bike you've ever purchased and ridden... yesterday.


Once again, it's not the only mountain bike I've ever purchased or ridden.
In fact, like I have said many times, I test ridden both Specialized and Giant bikes before receiving my Forge. Neither the Specialized nor the Giant felt any superior, and neither even had disc brakes. The Forge rides and feels just as good.
Like you obviously also missed, I road bikes as a lot, as a kid...but I'm sure that doesn't count as riding a bike by your standards.



Ken in KC said:


> A guy who could recite flight instruction manuals verbatim based on his research but had only one actual flight under his belt or a guy who was an IP, had been flying for decades with multiple types of aircraft?


That's also a horrible comparison. It's blown way out of proportion to prove some point that isn't very interesting otherwise.
Flying planes is a life or death situation.
A newbie asking if a certain bike would be good enough is something else.
Don't unnecessarily inflate the vital nature of this thread.



Ken in KC said:


> It may not make you a whore but it certainly makes you a biased fanboy with absolutely zero context on which to based your opinion.


I'd rather be a fanboy than a stuck-up snooty a$$hole who can't admit when someone doesn't need to spend over a thousand dollars to have a fun biking experience.



Ken in KC said:


> When a beginner with little or no mountain biking experience asks a question, there are some of us who try and provide an educated answer. Even if they ask the wrong question.


And that's wonderful.



Ken in KC said:


> Answering the very specific question without perspective is a disservice to the person asking the question.


Once again, I am comparing the Forge to the Specialized and Giant bikes I rode only a day or two before riding the Forge.



Ken in KC said:


> Since you have an extremely difficult time reading for context[/QUOTE}
> It seems like you are too.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*You're funny...*



nola_Prius said:


> Once again, it's not the only mountain bike I've ever purchased or ridden.
> In fact, like I have said many times, I test road both Specialized and Giant bikes before receiving my Forge. Neither the Specialized or the Giant felt any superior, and neither even had disc brakes. The Forge rides and feels just as good.
> Like you obviously also missed, I road bikes as a lot, as a kid...but I'm sure that doesn't count as riding a bike by your standards.
> 
> ...


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Ken in KC said:


> I drove a go-kart as a kid, that doesn't make me an expert on Baha racing.


Of course it doesn't. Is that a big revelation to you?



Ken in KC said:


> You purchased more than one mountain bike despite the fact that you said you hadn't purchased a bike.


You mean in my profile? I put that on a whim because I hadn't purchased a current bike yet. Don't read too much into it. The profile is obviously bare and neglected.



Ken in KC said:


> Or, you purchased a mountain bike as a kid?


Yes, I did actually pay for one myself, but had several over the years.



Ken in KC said:


> Because the critical thinking skills of children make them qualified to be experts on subjects?


Your argument is weakening.



Ken in KC said:


> It's also a little scary that you don't think that making decisions regarding mountain biking aren't life and death decisions.


The difference between a Forge, a Specialized, a Giant, a Schwinn, a Gary Fisher and whatever your favorite brand is NOT a life or death situation. Please don't tell me that your obsession is that severe.



Ken in KC said:


> I get it, you're happy with your Forge and it has disc brakes!!!!! Awesome, man!!! You've obviously got it all figured out.


I'm also happy because I got what I could have gotten if I'd have spent a couple hundred more in the shop! Yeah!!
Thanks!! I'd say that I have enough figured out to be riding happily for now!
Four days in a row with my Forge and still going!!
Be sure to check back in a couple months and see if it is still working!


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## billyymc (Jul 7, 2009)

xxforeverfallenxx said:


> The online business KILLs small town business


Which is why we should outlaw the internets!!

Seriously XXFFXX -- the bike industry is not so unique. Businesses that learn to adapt, survive. Those that don't, don't.

I like the guys at one LBS near me. The other two shops near me suck though. And none would give me even the slightest deal when I was looking for a bike for my daughter. So I bought an IBEX Alpine online, for $500. A similar Trek or Specy would've been around $800. The IBEX is a great bike, the frame is solid with great welding -- and very likely made by the same company that makes similar spec Trek and Specy frames. Assembly was simple -- even if I had no experience wrenching I could've done it.

Any work I don't know how to do on our family's bikes (we have about 12 between the four of us), I can find a tutorial online and learn. Bike wrenching isn't alchemy, like some would have you believe.

And so, the LBS's that wnat to be in business 10 years from now better figure out how. Anyone can follow the IBEX model (which btw, is pretty much the same as the bikesdirect model, just that bikesdirect bought some formerly respected brand names,and IBEX made up their own) -- and I think you'll see more of this in the future.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

nola_Prius said:


> Once again, it's not the only mountain bike I've ever purchased or ridden.
> In fact, like I have said many times, I test ridden both Specialized and Giant bikes before receiving my Forge. Neither the Specialized nor the Giant felt any superior, and neither even had disc brakes. The Forge rides and feels just as good.
> Like you obviously also missed, I road bikes as a lot, as a kid...but I'm sure that doesn't count as riding a bike by your standards.
> 
> ...


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

more quality excuses being posted, now people are gona criticize the very components they recommend in other threads just because its being sold for half the price. If you have no faith in a rock shox dart 1 fork, then why would you recomend other rock shox darts in other threads? And really? how the frame was made? Ill tell you exactly how it was made, it was made with double butted 6061 aluminum and welded together via a robotic assembly arm, the same way your specialized, and trek frames are made, you people think that aluminum bike frames on bikes under 3 grand are hand welded by cambodian refugees sworn to slave labor in the diamond mines of south africa?

Ill say it again as i said it before, if your snapping frames on a bike, your more likely to be snapping the frame on a 5000 dollar carbon framed bike before you ever even get close to snapping an aluminum frame bike from a department store as you call it, UNLESS by some extenuating circumstance the frame was DEFECTIVE. Countless countless posts have been made on all various forums that the forge frame is the same frame as the giant yukon from the pre 07 days. If you refuse to believe what is said on the forum why dont you contact forge yourself to disprove it.


Cmon people, stop with the tired excuses you guys sling around here time and time again about bikes youve never heard of, half the bikes you sling **** at on here the mtbr.com website sponsors on a regular basis lol


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> And just to piss you off some more, you're how old now? And your Forge is your first bike in 12yrs? And 12 yrs ago, you were a kid of some sort? That puts you at probably no older than early 20's...possibly even high school.


"Just to piss you off some more" ?? What an argument. Bravo. Get a life, tool.
I'm far beyond highschool and also beyond my early twenties.
I'm not gonna waste my time responding to your other crap, because it isn't worth it. It's the same "jagoff" points I've been arguing against this whole time. Spawne32 already did that. 
Come up with something new if you want to stand out. The elitist attitude and argument aren't very impressive and certainly not anything new.

On a better note, today was day 5 in a row of riding the Forge. I rode it harder today than all the other days so far. It held up like a champ...even when compared to my girlfriend's Giant she just bought today.
Here are some pics for those that will undoubtedly come along to confirm the overwhelmingly positive reviews they've read about the Forge Sawback. Keep bumping the thread so it's easy to find. 

Have a good one!


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## CRed (Aug 4, 2007)

The frame is made by GIANT like thousands of others since they're one of the largest OEM frame manufacturers in the world if not the largest.The parts are all from well respected manufacturers and other then the fork are beyond entry level.So some of you people are going to say it's a crappy bike?Why?Because it doesn't say Trek on it or because it didn't come from an LBS?

I bought a Trek from my LBS for my son and well I just don't see the big deal about the LBS difference so next time I'm buying online and getting my moneys worth.And besides guys are always recommending buying online on this site,from ebay,craiglist ect,ect.so why is it such a big deal here?

Bottom line,the bashing in this thread of the guys purchase is sad.It's his bike it was his money and if you don't like it go somewhere else.I think calling the OP a "kid" and insinuating he's not very bright is hypocritical seeing how some of you guys are acting.Let the OP enjoy riding his new bike,he's not harming anyone.

Just my .02 worth


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The question about frame construction was pointed to find out if Forge frames are comparable to other companies' frames, which is the main argument you guys are making. Look, Spesh, Trek, and Giant all use proprietary alloys even on their lower end bikes. What's on the lower end bikes was on their high end lines in the past. They also use various butting techniques to cut weight without compromising strength. There's even some hydroforming and other formerly high-end construction techniques going on.

Here's 6061 Al

Here's a Hardrock frame, for example:



> Specialized A1 Premium Aluminum, fully butted, formed TT, Double ORE DT, externally relieved HT, reinforced disc mount, forged dropouts w/ replaceable hanger


Spesh does not describe A1 anywhere else in more detail...or their other alloys.

Here's Trek's lowest end Al frame bike, the 3500:



> Alpha White Aluminum w/externally relieved head tube, bi-axial down tube, disc compatible dropouts


For just a little more, the 3700:



> Alpha White Aluminum w/semi-integrated head tube, bi-oval down tube w/integrated gusset, rack and fender mounts, disc compatible dropouts, replaceable derailleur hanger


Alpha White Al:



> Trek's performance aluminum, Alpha White is straight gauge 6000-series aluminum with little or no forming.


Giant Boulder SE:



> ALUXX-Grade Butted Aluminum


ALUXX Al:



> Giant pushes the limits of standard aluminum materials and construction with its own ALUXX Aluminum Technology - a masterful blend of cutting-edge materials science and proprietary forming and construction techniques. From the microscopic manipulation of the atomic grain structure to the introduction of hydro-formed tubesets, Giant engineers have been at the forefront of aluminum technology for over three decades. ALUXX Aluminum is the result of their tireless efforts.
> 
> ALUXX Aluminum Technology is featured on all Giant aluminum bicycles.


So they all use their own alloys, not the stock 6061 you can buy anywhere. In Trek's case, it's close in composition, but different enough to be proprietary. They also use tech that Forge doesn't approach...especially Specialized and Giant. These are not the high end bikes, either. I posted specs from the least expensive Al mountain bikes offered by all 3 companies. All are cheaper than the Forge, even. Unlike you, I don't believe random forum BS, because crap gets repeated with no supporting evidence. All quoted text comes from the respective bike companies' websites in bike specs or under a description of the frame tech in question. Not vaguely referenced from some web forum discussion from a bunch of newbies who don't know any different.

Correction about sponsorships...the crap brands often discussed here sponsor mtbr and other bike sites to get the masses of newbies buying their bikes. Notice that most of them don't even try to cater to more experienced bikers. That's because more experienced riders know better. mtbr's motivation comes into question frequently, but this discussion is not related to that...yet (unless a Forge rep wants to come on and threaten Ken, myself, and a couple other posters with some sense).

And let me say, I've worked with and on plenty of cheap disc brakes...both hydro and cable. The only cheap ones I'm willing to use are Avid BB7's because the others are such a nightmare to deal with. A set of Avid SD5 levers and SD7 vees stops vastly better than cheap discs any day.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Well, in that case, my Forge should fall apart long before my girlfriend's Giant Boulder SE does. Right? I'll let you know when that happens. We plan to be riding at least 3 times a week from here on out.

Speaking of disc brakes...your standards must be pretty high. My Hayes brakes have been working just fine...even when they got wet today. How could this be???????? Is it a miracle???!!
No.... no miracle.  My standards just don't require spending unnecessarily. (AKA spending beyond my needs/requirements...which are probably a lot more similar to the OP's needs than yours are.)
I guess that is just where we differ. 

Let's call it a day?


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

Nola, don't take this the wrong way, but....

If saving money was such a big deal, why didn't you purchase the Forge Vero LS or Saranac CM from Target? They both are less expensive and better suited to the type of riding shown in the pictures.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

GlassTrain said:


> Nola, don't take this the wrong way, but....
> 
> If saving money was such a big deal, why didn't you purchase the Forge Vero LS or Saranac CM from Target? They both are less expensive and better suited to the type of riding shown in the pictures.


Because I plan to do other types of riding also, and I was turned on by the so many good reviews of the Sawback.
Basically, I wanted the flexibility to do various types of riding without feeling like I was riding Grandpa's bike. (not to hate on comfort bikes or cruisers)
Money really isn't an issue for me, but like I said before, I wasn't gonna go spend unnecessarily just to get a name brand bike, when there's always the possibility of me not sticking with the sport. (but I truly doubt that will happen)
I also had plans to eventually upgrade anyway, so I left myself some room to do that.

I didn't take your question the wrong way at all, man! 
It was very reasonable and you were able to ask it without deliberately trying to "piss me off." :thumbsup:


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

GlassTrain said:


> Nola, don't take this the wrong way, but....
> 
> If saving money was such a big deal, why didn't you purchase the Forge Vero LS or Saranac CM from Target? They both are less expensive and better suited to the type of riding shown in the pictures.


Indeed, when I saw those trails I had to wonder why nola needed a mtb with disc brakes, anyway. This is what I ride when I get the chance (3 different states, BTW...NC, UT, and MI):


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> The question about frame construction was pointed to find out if Forge frames are comparable to other companies' frames, which is the main argument you guys are making. Look, Spesh, Trek, and Giant all use proprietary alloys even on their lower end bikes. What's on the lower end bikes was on their high end lines in the past. They also use various butting techniques to cut weight without compromising strength. There's even some hydroforming and other formerly high-end construction techniques going on.
> 
> Here's 6061 Al
> 
> ...


oh you have got to be kidding me, your gona start using quotes about aluminum production techniques and minor differences in 6000 grade aluminum? Most of the descriptions you posted are fancy marketing techniques designed to real customers in making minor differences in product seem like night and day differences in frame strength, 6000 grade aluminum is made with magnesium and silicon elements, if its not made with those elements, its not 6000 grade aluminum lol do you have any idea the pressures and stresses required to cause failure on a 6061 aluminum bike that has been roboticly welded? Its virtually impossible to destroy unless you intentionally go about doing something to cause failure and stress fractures on the welds.

While i admit im not a big fan of the hayes mx2 disc brakes, forge has made more then enough effort by listening to its customer base and providing a much better replacement system to their new lineup called avid bb5, something that is recommended on a regular basis around here.

You need to stop with this non-sense, you damn well know a forge frame is just as safe as any other sub 1000 dollar bike.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> Indeed, when I saw those trails I had to wonder why nola needed a mtb with disc brakes, anyway. This is what I ride when I get the chance (3 different states, BTW...NC, UT, and MI):


Awesome pics, but keep in mind that those last pics I posted were from ONE location, FIVE days after getting my bike.... kinda relevant.
Believe me when I say that I plan to check out as many varying trails that I can.
There was a bit rougher terrain today, but I didn't take any pics. (nothing TOO rough, though)
Nothing with big rocks on a steep incline, but it was fun anyway.
I'll work my way up to the big rocks and actual mountains....as soon as I can find them around here.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> Indeed, when I saw those trails I had to wonder why nola needed a mtb with disc brakes, anyway. This is what I ride when I get the chance (3 different states, BTW...NC, UT, and MI):


i ride a 7 mile gary fisher sponsored course at a local college near me with the bike in my profile, along with my friends forge 5xx, my other friend with his 475 dollar K2 diamondback, and my brother who is so cheap he rides a 10 year old huffy stalker. Our trail is just as challenging as the stuff you posted in the pics, in fact my buddy crashed his bike lol off of a 6 foot ramp at the very top, and fell head first to the ground and his bike landed on top of him, and the bike took no damage what so ever.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Spawne32 said:


> oh you have got to be kidding me, your gona start using quotes about aluminum production techniques and minor differences in 6000 grade aluminum? Most of the descriptions you posted are fancy marketing techniques designed to real customers in making minor differences in product seem like night and day differences in frame strength, 6000 grade aluminum is made with magnesium and silicon elements, if its not made with those elements, its not 6000 grade aluminum lol do you have any idea the pressures and stresses required to cause failure on a 6061 aluminum bike that has been roboticly welded? Its virtually impossible to destroy unless you intentionally go about doing something to cause failure and stress fractures on the welds.
> 
> While i admit im not a big fan of the hayes mx2 disc brakes, forge has made more then enough effort by listening to its customer base and providing a much better replacement system to their new lineup called avid bb5, something that is recommended on a regular basis around here.
> 
> You need to stop with this non-sense, you damn well know a forge frame is just as safe as any other sub 1000 dollar bike.


From wikipedia:



> Mechanical properties
> 
> The mechanical properties of 6061 depend greatly on the temper, or heat treatment, of the material. [1]
> [edit]6061-O
> ...


The additional frame manipulation techniques used by Spesh and Giant are not just marketing drivel. I do now know how they change durability, but I do know that they improve the weight of the frame compared to one that does not use those techniques but uses the same material. There's also a factor for ride quality of the frame. How harsh or supple is it? Tubing manipulation drastically changes those characteristics. So what temper does Forge use?


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

nola_Prius said:


> Because I plan to do other types of riding also, and I was turned on by the so many good reviews of the Sawback.
> Money really isn't an issue for me, but like I said before, I wasn't gonna go spend unnecessarily just to get a name brand bike, when there's always the possibility of me not sticking with the sport. (but I truly doubt that will happen)
> I also had plans to eventually upgrade anyway, so I left myself some room to do that.
> 
> ...


Ok. I see.

I had looked at the Forge bikes myself, but being a big fanboy of Specialized, I went ahead and dropped the extra coin on a Hardrock Sport Disk at the local shop. :lol:

At the beginner level and even sport level, I can see why folk would go for the Forge. As long as you're not hacking guppies or whatever it's called, it should hold up. I didn't have a very good experience with my first department store bike (destroyed it within three months), so that's why I really hesitated to repeat the process. But from what I've read, they seem like decent bikes.

But I would still have to recommend purchasing from an LBS from personal experience. The main reason is that once a new rider gets a taste of riding off road, the questions and answers that that rider might have can be best answered by an experience group of professionals that actually ride the products they sell. That is how the sport evolves and grows. I will commend Forge for producing a product that comes surprisingly close to, or even exceeds, the quality of some to the entry level bikes found at the bike shops, but there's nowhere near the support after the sale in terms of local club sponsorship of local events from Target or Forge that I'm aware of. And that is how trails are built and maintained, the sport expands, and overall becomes much more than it is today.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> From wikipedia:
> 
> The additional frame manipulation techniques used by Spesh and Giant are not just marketing drivel. I do now know how they change durability, but I do know that they improve the weight of the frame compared to one that does not use those techniques but uses the same material. There's also a factor for ride quality of the frame. How harsh or supple is it? Tubing manipulation drastically changes those characteristics. So what temper does Forge use?


like most bikes under 1000 bucks, forge probably uses the most cost effective 6061 production method, which judging by the information you have provided thus far, has a maximum tensile strength of 18,000 PSI which equates to about 9 tons of pressure, if you factor the yield strength your looking at about 4 tons. Now, i dont know where your riding where your putting 4 tons of pressure on a bike frame, maybe the clydesdale forum perhaps, but as most people will attest to here, professionals and newbs alike, failures from frames dont occur on the aluminum, they occur more commonly along faulty welds.

Now if you think your getting aluminum that is made with the same manufacturing technique as the space shuttle, your dead wrong, because those techniques are costly, very costly.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

I can't see how you can use component spec to defend a forge considering the dart1 fork. a fork is not a place to skimp.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Lambdamaster said:


> I can't see how you can use component spec to defend a forge considering the dart1 fork. a fork is not a place to skimp.


your gona talk **** on the most widely used fork in this forum now? you know the rock shox dart 1 is the same as the dart 3 without the lockout and rebound adjustment


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> your gona talk **** on the most widely used fork in this forum now? you know the rock shox dart 1 is the same as the dart 3 without the lockout and rebound adjustment


just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good. The dart chassis is pretty junky. rust-prone noodles for stanchions and it still weighs well over 5 pounds. The dart1 is a dart3 without any damper. it's a spring in a tube. forks are not supposed to handle like pogo sticks. So yeah, the dart1 is hardly better than a suntour or even a rigid.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

GlassTrain said:


> But I would still have to recommend purchasing from an LBS from personal experience. The main reason is that once a new rider gets a taste of riding off road, the questions and answers that that rider might have can be best answered by an experience group of professionals that actually ride the products they sell. That is how the sport evolves and grows. I will commend Forge for producing a product that comes surprisingly close to, or even exceeds, the quality of some to the entry level bikes found at the bike shops, but there's nowhere near the support after the sale in terms of local club sponsorship of local events from Target or Forge that I'm aware of. And that is how trails are built and maintained, the sport expands, and overall becomes much more than it is today.


I understand the point you're making here, but I can't understand how someone with a Forge or any other non-name brand bike can't support a local shop and local trails, and also help the sport grow. To me, biking is biking...but I AM still a newbie, so maybe there really is something that I'm just not understanding yet.

As for whatever I upgrade to next... whatever it turns out to be, it will most likely cost twice as much as the Forge and also come from a local shop.



Lambdamaster said:


> I can't see how you can use component spec to defend a forge considering the dart1 fork. a fork is not a place to skimp.


It's at least a (semi?) popular brand, right? Rock Shox?
Whatever it is, it works fine for what I've been doing so far...which is what matters to me.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Lambdamaster said:


> just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good. The dart chassis is pretty junky. rust-prone noodles for stanchions and it still weighs well over 5 pounds. The dart1 is a dart3 without any damper. it's a spring in a tube. forks are not supposed to handle like pogo sticks. So yeah, the dart1 is hardly better than a suntour or even a rigid.


ive ridden on a dart 1 on a forge and ive ridden on an SR suntour, and i didnt like the suntour at all, in fact im a big user of all parts from SRAM


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

nola_Prius said:


> I understand the point you're making here, but I can't understand how someone with a Forge or any other non-name brand bike can't support a local shop and local trails, and also help the sport grow. To me, biking is biking...but I AM still a newbie, so maybe there really is something that I'm just not understanding yet.
> 
> As for whatever I upgrade to next... whatever it turns out to be, it will most likely cost twice as much as the Forge and also come from a local shop.
> 
> ...


semi popular? try the #1 brand in the mountain bike world, dart being their budget end forks but good forks none the less.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

nola_Prius said:


> It's at least a (semi?) popular brand, right? Rock Shox?
> Whatever it is, it works fine for what I've been doing so far...which is what matters to me.


if you polish a turd, it's still a stinker. Likewise, if you throw a brand sticker on a turd, it's still a stinker. Sure it may be functional in the fact that it telescopes up and down, but that is hardly the essence of fork function.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> ive ridden on a dart 1 on a forge and ive ridden on an SR suntour, and i didnt like the suntour at all, in fact im a big user of all parts from SRAM


this really doesn't say much in defense of the dart1. I've had four RS forks. a 09 dart3, a 09 Tora Race, a 2010 Recon Race, and a 08 Pike 351. The latter three were rather nice. I traded the dart3 for a rigid.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

nola_Prius said:


> Awesome pics, but keep in mind that those last pics I posted were from ONE location, FIVE days after getting my bike.... kinda relevant.
> Believe me when I say that I plan to check out as many varying trails that I can.
> There was a bit rougher terrain today, but I didn't take any pics. (nothing TOO rough, though)
> Nothing with big rocks on a steep incline, but it was fun anyway.
> I'll work my way up to the big rocks and actual mountains....as soon as I can find them around here.


The first two pics are a trail that was maybe the 3rd offroad ride with my bike. The next pic was later that summer, and the last pic was later that fall. I have ridden many other places but with less illustrative pics, I'm afraid. The bike pictured in the first two shots is my older bike which structurally handled the trail fine.

My main argument was not the frame, but rather service and support. My point with the frame details was that the question was asked much earlier than my entry into the post, but none of you fanboys would answer the Q....so I answered it for you. The moral of the story is that Forge offers you a bargain basement frame with not much effort put into material choice or tubing manipulation to save weight. They don't do anything special. According to wikipedia that I cited before, 6061 Al has a very specific composition. Trek's Alpha is a departure from that composition. It's similar enough to call it 6000 series, but different enough to warrant a proprietary name/formulation. Companies do that because they want different characteristics from the frame, with Al it's usually bump compliance. Specialized and Giant do not let you know how different or similar their proprietary alloys are to stock tubing.

I am, in the end, pointing out that the Forge is NOT a Giant frame, or a frame that Trek or Specialized uses. They each use their own alloys and construction techniques. Forge cheaps out on the frame to offer better components to make the bike look better than it is. It is not comparable to low-end bikes from other mfr's. The frame is not as good. That's the same reason many manufacturers spec a high end rear d (like an XTR) on a bike full of LX (or SLX for new bikes) parts. To be an informed customer, you need to know what you're getting and what you aren't getting. While the tech used on the Forge frame is low end now, it's true that that tech USED TO BE considered good. But considering we still don't know who makes that frame, we still don't have a clue yet how well or badly it might be welded, or what QC standards are used in the manufacture of it.

So in summary:
Forge offers a cheap frame with an as yet unknown manufacturer
Forge offers better derailleurs/shifters at least than a comparably priced bike from other brands, but since components are basically wear items, it kinda sucks that Forge does not give you a better frame which is likely to last longer than the parts that hang off of it.
Other components are probably a wash since most cheap bikes use fairly cheap parts from one manufacturer or another, and these are hard to compare
Forge or Target does not assemble your bike. You have to pay for a professional install from your LBS. Some LBSes will not do this.
Forge or Target will not service the bike. You must also seek LBS help for this service. Some LBSes will not service the bike. Some LBSes offer a discount on service if the bike bears a sticker indicating the bike was bought there.
Warranty claims are a relative unknown. Department stores are not known for being terribly helpful in this department...customers usually have to contact the MFR directly when it comes to bikes. I'd like to hear from a shop owner who has handled a warranty claim for Forge like has been claimed in this thread.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Lambdamaster said:


> if you polish a turd, it's still a stinker. Likewise, if you throw a brand sticker on a turd, it's still a stinker. Sure it may be functional in the fact that it telescopes up and down, but that is hardly the essence of fork function.


your trying to compare the fork on a 400 dollar entry level bicycle to forks that cost in excess of 400 dollars, your not even in the same dimension of fork design.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> your trying to compare the fork on a 400 dollar entry level bicycle to forks that cost in excess of 400 dollars, your not even in the same dimension of fork design.


what is your point?? Mine was that the dart1 is junk, and for the record, I payed under $250 for the Tora Race brand new shipped to my door from a popular online retailer. you get what you pay for, and the dart1 is what you get on the forge.
The component spec can be found here:
http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5sl.asp
It does not at all seem outstanding for even a $400 bike.


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

nola_Prius said:


> I understand the point you're making here, but I can't understand how someone with a Forge or any other non-name brand bike can't support a local shop and local trails, and also help the sport grow. To me, biking is biking...but I AM still a newbie, so maybe there really is something that I'm just not understanding yet.
> 
> As for whatever I upgrade to next... whatever it turns out to be, it will most likely cost twice as much as the Forge and also come from a local shop.
> 
> ...


Oh, a person with a Forge _can_ support a local shop and clubs individually, and would probably be encouraged to do so. I probably didn't make that very clear. Sorry. 

And you make a good point about the Forge leading to bigger and better things.

Meanwhile, while all the other people are 'talking aluminum and shocks' back at the trailhead, the Sawback and Hardrock are rolllin' through the woods having a ball! And that's what it's all about.:lol: :thumbsup:


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

GlassTrain said:


> Oh, a person with a Forge _can_ support a local shop and clubs individually, and would probably be encouraged to do so. I probably didn't make that very clear. Sorry.
> 
> And you make a good point about the Forge leading to bigger and better things.
> 
> Meanwhile, while all the other people are 'talking aluminum and shocks' back at the trailhead, the Sawback and Hardrock are rolllin' through the woods having a ball! And that's what it's all about.:lol: :thumbsup:


lol im too scared to take my bike on the trail for fear that i might exceed the 4 ton limit of standard 6061 aluminum production :thumbsup:


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> lol im too scared to take my bike on the trail for fear that i might exceed the 4 ton limit of standard 6061 aluminum production :thumbsup:


I think he made it clear that the welds are the main concern, not the tubing itself. There are people breaking welds on $5000+ commencals, and I don't think it's arguable that a forge frame would be superior, so the integrity of a forge frame is questionable.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Lambdamaster said:


> I think he made it clear that the welds are the main concern, not the tubing itself. There are people breaking welds on $5000+ commencals, and I don't think it's arguable that a forge frame would be superior, so the integrity of a forge frame is questionable.


questionable? how is it questionable?


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> questionable? how is it questionable?


I explained how it is questionable in the post that you just quoted. Try re-reading it :thumbsup:


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> lol im too scared to take my bike on the trail for fear that i might exceed the 4 ton limit of standard 6061 aluminum production :thumbsup:


I don't know what the limit is on the HR, but 4 tons is a lotta G's brah! I'm a crumpled heap at the bottom no matter what I'm on anyway! :lol:

Seriously, there's a really steep drop-off and climb around here that I refuse to go down on _any_ bike... cause I know I'm mortal and stuff ya know. Maybe when I sprout wings and can fly! :skep:


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Lambdamaster said:


> I explained how it is questionable in the post that you just quoted. Try re-reading it :thumbsup:


the point i made was that you would be hard pressed to break any frame on a bike regardless of whether it was a 5000 dollar titanium frame or a 80 dollar huffy frame, the concern lies in the fact that the welds are the weak point in the bike, or, other defects, and i highly doubt that is an issue for forge at all given the reputation, in fact the only bikes ive heard of to date that have had weld failures at the fork under normal use are cheap ass NEXT and MAGNA bikes at walmart. Those two brands are the lowest of the low.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

GlassTrain said:


> I don't know what the limit is on the HR, but 4 tons is a lotta G's brah! I'm a crumpled heap at the bottom no matter what I'm on anyway! :lol:
> 
> Seriously, there's a really steep drop-off and climb around here that I refuse to go down on _any_ bike... cause I know I'm mortal and stuff ya know. Maybe when I sprout wings and can fly! :skep:


ive been on a couple of those drop offs where i questioned the joints in my knees breaking in half before the welds on my fork would lol


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> the point i made was that you would be hard pressed to break any frame on a bike regardless of whether it was a 5000 dollar titanium frame or a 80 dollar huffy frame, the concern lies in the fact that the welds are the weak point in the bike, or, other defects, and i highly doubt that is an issue for forge at all given the reputation, in fact the only bikes ive heard of to date that have had weld failures at the fork under normal use are cheap ass NEXT and MAGNA bikes at walmart. Those two brands are the lowest of the low.


no offense, but honestly, I think if the only bikes you've heard about breaking at the welds are walmart bikes, then you should probably gain a bit more experience before dispensing advice regarding frames.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Lambdamaster said:


> no offense, but honestly, I think if the only bikes you've heard about breaking at the welds are walmart bikes, then you should probably gain a bit more experience before dispensing advice regarding frames.


under normal riding conditions.....why cant anyone on this forum comprehend what normal riding conditions are and what certain bikes are designed for as a primary use. I will be the first one to say here that if you take a forge bike to a downhill competition it would probably destroy itself, where as a bike designed for downhill would survive. That goes without saying, the risk of failure on a trail ride on a forge bike is probably closer to 0. I cant believe anyone would even raise the argument of frame failure anymore, honestly, its such a lame excuse used against other brands.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

This thread is ridiculous.
Can't wait to ride tomorrow.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

Spawne32 said:


> under normal riding conditions.....why cant anyone on this forum comprehend what normal riding conditions are and what certain bikes are designed for as a primary use. I will be the first one to say here that if you take a forge bike to a downhill competition it would probably destroy itself, where as a bike designed for downhill would survive. That goes without saying, the risk of failure on a trail ride on a forge bike is probably closer to 0. I cant believe anyone would even raise the argument of frame failure anymore, honestly, its such a lame excuse used against other brands.


In attempt to make this sink into the heads of some people, I thought I should quote it.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> under normal riding conditions.....why cant anyone on this forum comprehend what normal riding conditions are and what certain bikes are designed for as a primary use. I will be the first one to say here that if you take a forge bike to a downhill competition it would probably destroy itself, where as a bike designed for downhill would survive. That goes without saying, the risk of failure on a trail ride on a forge bike is probably closer to 0. I cant believe anyone would even raise the argument of frame failure anymore, honestly, its such a lame excuse used against other brands.


At the Fat Tire downhill race in eureka springs, AR there were two dudes riding entry level Specialized XC bikes in the limited travel category. One was a hardrock and the other was a fsrXC.. both had rim brakes. They were hitting berm gaps, 2ft drops to flats, rock gardens... and neither had any issues. Even if they were to break something, specialized would have warrantied it without question. Like I said, you get what you pay for.


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

Lambdamaster said:


> At the Fat Tire downhill race in eureka springs, AR there were two dudes riding entry level Specialized XC bikes in the limited travel category. One was a hardrock and the other was a fsrXC.. both had rim brakes. They were hitting berm gaps, 2ft drops to flats, rock gardens... and neither had any issues. Even if they were to break something, specialized would have warrantied it without question. Like I said, you get what you pay for.


A hardrock? With stock forks? 

Were they both within a year from purchase? I mean, other than the lifetime on the frame (meaning you have to live through the frame breaking :lol: ) it's 1 year on the components. And do they apply to components added on within the year? Just Curious.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

GlassTrain said:


> A hardrock? With stock forks?
> 
> Were they both within a year from purchase? I mean, other than the lifetime on the frame (meaning you have to live through the frame breaking :lol: ) it's 1 year on the components. And do they apply to components added on within the year? Just Curious.


Both bikes were stock, and no idea how old the bikes were, but if they were still within warranty, it would have been replaced withing a few days. Obviously if you replace components with your own aftermarket parts then it no longer applies to that component, but you get a factory warranty on any component you buy anyways right?? A lot of times the frame simply develops a crack at a weld. It's much more rare that it straight-up breaks immediately. Also, specialized branded suspension components carry a 5 year, transferable warranty.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

nola_Prius said:


> In attempt to make this sink into the heads of some people, I thought I should quote it.


In an attempt to make this sink into your childish head, i thought i should say it:

the forge sawback is a crappy bike and doesn't compare to anything even entry level from specialized or cannondale or trek or giant. their frames suck and are heavy and has the cheapest of the cheap rockshox noodle fork. i love this thread for its entertainment and i love nola for makin it happen. glad u like ur target bike kiddy. u get what u paid for; which isn't even as much as the base hardrock

/thread


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## DalyCityDad (Aug 8, 2009)

nola_Prius said:


> Well, considering this is the BEGINNER'S forum. . . do you think any beginners plan to put their new bike through serious abuse? Probably not.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I'm a beginner and I beat the hell out of my bike. I ride (or attempt to ride) many of the same trails that the experienced riders do. Just saying.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

nola_Prius said:


> It's at least a (semi?) popular brand, right? Rock Shox?
> Whatever it is, it works fine for what I've been doing so far...which is what matters to me.


:lol:


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

louisssss said:


> In an attempt to make this sink into your childish head, i thought i should say it:
> 
> the forge sawback is a crappy bike and doesn't compare to anything even entry level from specialized or cannondale or trek or giant. their frames suck and are heavy and has the cheapest of the cheap rockshox noodle fork. i love this thread for its entertainment and i love nola for makin it happen. glad u like ur target bike kiddy. u get what u paid for; which isn't even as much as the base hardrock
> 
> /thread


I'll limit my future responses to you to this:
You're an immature internet douchebag. You're nothing special and nothing new.

That goes for several people in this thread.
Grow up, losers.


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## nola_Prius (Aug 27, 2009)

DalyCityDad said:


> nola_Prius said:
> 
> 
> > Well, considering this is the BEGINNER'S forum. . . do you think any beginners plan to put their new bike through serious abuse? Probably not.
> ...


Show me where I said that beginner/entry level bikes should and can have the hell beaten out of them, and where I said that they can all hold up to all "pro" or "experienced" trails or whatever. If you can do that, then you'll have made a good point. If not, well...

According to Spawne32, his buddy's Forge has taken quite a beating and is still performing just fine.
I guess that's some positive reinforcement as to the Forge's quality.


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