# Let's make a frame, eh ?



## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

Hey guys,
Let's make a frame. From scratch, I got the parts, you design it. I'll fab it and weld it.
Let's keep it real, with functional angles and geo and spec's.
It will be a HT. I don't think you can come up with anything I can't build............
And when were done, we'll decide together who gets it's cherry.
Bring it !!
RTW.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

I see it's aluminum, but, looks like the top tube line of a banshee scratch almost.... with that idea on the table... you up for building a 24" spec bad mammajamma? or sticking with 26'ers for this frigger jigger?
(I personally dig 4130 over 6000 alu., but you're the one welding.)

also, what length fork ideally? 

I'm throwin' out the idea of a street specific shredder... stuper steep angles, stiff, stout, SHORT, but also Steel... 
but, let's hear what everyone else has to say... I'm just saying this as I'm somewhat in the market for a Molly at the moment....


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

Hey Bike S.
Alum. on this one, The extra parts I have are.
24, 26, 29, It's all good.
We can flip that TT, we can make it straight.. I want it to be a group decision.
This is our release from the real world. This is for fun, and to get riders involved in design.
This realm is usually reserved for rchphkrs, ya know........
And folks that make you pay for YOUR imagination.
Not this time, nuh uh.
This is the Urban/DH/ Park bike.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

I always wanted a frame that the top tube continued on the same angle as the seat stays for a really clean looking line. And **** why not make it for just a rear brake, horizontal drop outs and no cable guides!, and I want clearance for big 'ol fat tires!

And let's not make it camo!


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

Personally, I agree with Satori. But, I just bought a Fall Guy. Stiff, short, fast, nothing you don't need. 110mm 24" back end, no discs or gears, mid BB, horizontal dropouts, that kinda thing.


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

absolutely horizontal dropouts, a hardtail without is useless.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

21" effective TT
15" chainstays all the way in
about a 40 or 41 inch wheelbase.
13" BB height
12.5" seat tube
70 degree head tube angle
70 degree seat tube angle

give that a try, and try this program

http://www.bikeforest.com/CAD/bikeCAD.html


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

wow, i completely agree with free rider, but 68' HA with 130mm fork, 41" wheelbase, and 12.5" BB height. 

and keep the kinked bar.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

If this is gonna be urban/DH, then how about...

67 degree headangle with 8" fork, or 72 degree with 80mm fork.


21.5-22.5 top tube
15" chainstays slammed
11.5" BB height with 80mm fork.


I'm no where close to an engineer, but I like "different" bikes.


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## jake2119 (Feb 27, 2006)

I would like to see a steeper headangle. More flatland style. Maybe 80 degrees. Short stiff fork.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

ok, those number combos didn't quite hit me straight, but hey... 
I like free rider's to a point, but much lower bb height, like 12", and a 22" measured tt... Now my head is jumbled... odd... cuz, I'm running 22" tt, 15.5" cs's, and probably about a 71* ha, but my wheelbase is super short, at 39.625"... maybe it would be longer if it were a 70* ha...
can you even get 15" cs's with a 26'er??? dont' think so, but I could be wrong... but, if it's 24 spec, 14.75 cs's are where it's at....

now.... how about a curved seattube, with a 29" large marge rear wheel slammed with draco style wishbone (if it were cromo), coaster brake, and a 24" front wheel laced radially, and 61* head angle, maverick DUC and apehangers... wheelie race? or powerslide contest?

haha, and I like Epschoenly's description, sounds exactly like my current bike in the smooth movin' steel thread...


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> coaster brake, and a 24" front wheel laced radially, and 61* head angle, maverick DUC and apehangers... wheelie race? or powerslide contest?
> 
> haha, and I like Epschoenly's description, sounds exactly like my current bike in the smooth movin' steel thread...


no coaster brake, 61* ha...thats raked man...please try to keep it over 67*

now the wheelie race and power slide contest...wooohooo


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## MT Road (Sep 26, 2004)

Rick this is an AWSOME idea..

For Urban I think the following:

Chainstays need to be as short as possible, I would keep it 26” but can you manipulate the chainstays to make them shorter than 15.5 inches? Great for popping off stuff

A short top tube about 21.5 inches ia about right for most people

I would match the HA and SA 69* on both 

I would keep the bent top tube bend facing down easier to get your feet through..

12 inch bb height…

And last but not least build it for a micro drive single speed the only way to ride park / urban / DJ…

And I am a fan of the cammo myself…

Keep everyone posted

C


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Cammo is cool. 

But I like pink so my opinion means nothing.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Big ass tyre clearance.
100mm fork or less
71 HA
73 SA
22'' to 23'' TT
Very high stand-over, I'm thinking a 12'' ST
If you can get a machined seatstay yoke, it will probably be able to have 15.6'' or 15.7'' chainstays.
Not too much bb drop, make it around 12''. I think I've got everything covered.


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## Wayndar (Jan 13, 2004)

do any of you guys remember the old Bandito bmx frames? They had two sets of horizontal dropouts- 1 above and further back than the other. By putting your wheel in the top ones it raked out the front end and made the wheelbase longer and by going with the low ones it was shorter CS and steeper. I think that would be cool. Also, what about a toptube thats pierced by the seattube or a headtube that pierces the TT and DT. Angles and dim's? short CS, 22" +/- TT


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

*It's working.*

Oh Yea,
Epscho, Bikesatori, sh!t every suggestion is working.
I can't mention everyone by name, but this is what I'm talking about.
Brainstorming in the true sense.
We need a consensus on fork travel, and wheel size.
Seems like everyone wants short c/s. So lemme know a fork, and hoop.
I have decided to photo each step, each fit. And I will explain every step, and why it matters.
My jig will be open in 1 week.
Then we all own it !!
And thanks in advance.
RTW.

P.S. I say Urban. Sick and flowing.  And raw finish.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

I'd say go for 24'' rick, I really think that an urban bike benefits from it. If you do decide to go 24'', then maybe no BB drop is in order, 80mm fork, 15,5''(or less if you can) chainstays, and the rest like my previous post, maybe a slightly shorter TT.


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## trevorh (Jul 31, 2006)

man thats to good of an idea, super sweet stuff man.


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## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

urban huh? i say design it aroun 80mm travel as that most common for dj/urban forks.

70.5* ht with 80mm. it will go to just a touch over 71* with something like the 65mm nemesis tuned forks. and will slack out to about 69.5-70* with a slammed pike.

maybe a 22-22.5" ett.
short chainstays of course.

use the kinked top tube. do you remember the Gary Fisher bike Chris Duncan rides? it had a super low top tube to make turndowns more doable on the 26" bikes. run the kink way clos to the seat post to get the stand over stupid low. heres the pic


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## trevorh (Jul 31, 2006)

80 mm travel does sound nice, same with that stupid low standover that fiddy_ryder was talking about.


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## Prime8 (Apr 19, 2004)

Most awesome thread evar!! :eekster: 

15"stays
80mm Fork
24" wheels
can it have a really slack seat tube? with shorty stays?

What about a concentric in the headtube for adjustable HA, inserts maybe?

can't wait to see this beast!!


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## MT Road (Sep 26, 2004)

Guys I was thinking a pure 26" hoop... 24's are cool but ther are called crusers... 26 is the way to go.. progessive and ****... I am hitting it today with a bunch of BMX's mad skills, but I get props on the 26er everytime...

80mm fork is cool I ride a 100 but I do allot of drops, and have it stff as hell so no issues in the jumps..

C


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

MT Road said:


> Guys I was thinking a pure 26" hoop... 24's are cool but ther are called crusers... 26 is the way to go.. progessive and ****... I am hitting it today with a bunch of BMX's mad skills, but I get props on the 26er everytime...
> 
> 80mm fork is cool I ride a 100 but I do allot of drops, and have it stff as hell so no issues in the jumps..
> 
> C


Here are some thoughts, 100 mm SPV fork, you can set them major stiff, and I got down to 15 3/4'' cs with a Intense System 3 tire 26 x 2.0. I'll post pics of the tire later today if I get the chance. I also am feeling the low st/ tt junction. I'm going this morning to look @ some stay material.
RTW.


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## Seanbike (Mar 23, 2004)

26 x 2.0 is the fatest tire you'll be able to run? 
My fat ass needs more rubber than that.


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

The talk of head angles is a bit beyond me, but is it possible to fab up some box-section dropouts like what comes from addict cycles? Those are pretty nice. I'm loving the TT, very cool looking. I'd rather see a larger fork than an 80mm. Having more travel is just reassuring. 2.0" tires are a little small IMO, but I'm a biased fan of 2.3" K-Rads. I'd like to see some bmx parts, maybe the BB, cranks, chainwheel, etc.. How about a solid color paintjob? Something that really stands out. Lime-green, blood-red, just something eye catching. A bike that's going to be this awesome needs to stand out from the cookie cutter frames out there. Is this going to be another personal ride for you RTW? If not, how about putting it up for charity. Something altruistic perhaps... Anyways, it all sounds great.


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## trevorh (Jul 31, 2006)

I think some kind of orange would look pretty cool.


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## dd13 (Oct 6, 2005)

im not big into urban and when i am its on my 46# FS so i say build something to handle bigger stuff...something comparbale to a vagrant mabe?or is this def gonna be an urban dj build?


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

rickthewelder said:


> Oh Yea,
> Epscho, Bikesatori, sh!t every suggestion is working.
> 
> Your damn right! All these number games are boring. Lets just K.I.S.S this bike. I think that The seat tube should be really low in the frame, so the seat can be put way, way down, on my gary fisher there is extra tubing that I'm thinking about cutting off to lower the seat lower, so having the capability out the box would rock. Definately, we need an 80 MM fork, if y'all want more than get a FR bike. We need 36h wheels at least, for sure, big natsy wheels.****, this mother sounds liek it'll be a sweet ride, maybe sometime I can get a piece of some action like this.Oh and we can curve the seat tube liek older track bikes to get the wheel in even tighter! I don't know if discs are a good idea, i;ve never had the money for them, but my V's are sweet, and I cant bend anything on them.


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## t-dawg (Jul 26, 2006)

I dont know but this is a urban dj forum bud.


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

I'm gonna kink the seat tube, I can pull it off and keep the angle and top tube specs we come up with. It looks so sick.
I found some 6061 round tube today for the stays @ Rancho Metals, and I'll get to see my modified design of the Tazer dropouts I used on the camo bike when I go see Ryan @ IMW on Tuesday. They make sh!t for top fuel funny cars there.
Here are the pics of the Intense System 3 tire on some 15 3/4'' chain stays, 26 X 2.0.
I'll check back this week. And have you guys ever seen '' Hot Rod Orange'' powder coat ?
RTW.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

t-dawg said:


> I dont know but this is a urban dj forum bud.


You should quote whom you are answering, just so it's not confusing.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

I also have to add that those tires are just way too skinny, think wide man, 2.4. Great to here about the seat post, that'll be totally rad, I'm so stoked on this whole idea, whom ever ends up on this beast is a lucky son of a gun!


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

fiddy_ryder said:


> urban huh? i say design it aroun 80mm travel as that most common for dj/urban forks.
> 
> 70.5* ht with 80mm. it will go to just a touch over 71* with something like the 65mm nemesis tuned forks. and will slack out to about 69.5-70* with a slammed pike.
> 
> ...


Yeahh, that's the PHD. I'm getting one in about a month. How rare is it to find someone with one?


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Seems to me to be pretty rare. Matbe something like finding any real numbers of gary fishers out being ridden, I have an Opie.


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## dd13 (Oct 6, 2005)

oops my bad,i still havtn adapted to the separate DH and dj/urban forums....i stilll think they should be alll in one.i just check this one and forget where i am...i figure if the types of riding are put in the same videos then keep em in the same forums.

in thart case,just build something small and flickable.and maybe try to keep it light.


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## ibanezrg520kid (Oct 27, 2005)

rick, i do'nt know your financial status as it is none of my business, but if you could afford it, i think it would be AMAZING to have a NEMISIS tuned z1 set at 80mm if that is the hight that has been choosen. if you want it more street/dj and less urban "hucking" type stuff thena tuned z1 at 65mm would be dope. maybe brad would be willing to help you out with this and hook you up with a fork? idk. just a thought. i just thought it'd be neat to get another builder from this site in on it with ya. 

sounds great so far and i think this is an awesome idea!


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Yah,Yah We could get some folks to donate parts and then give the bike away to someone deemed as "worthy"! Like a little contest we can keep to the urban/dj forum.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

I'm in canada, so I don't think I'd have a shot at the bike, but I'd love seeing it built, how's it going rick? Have you gone over to the drawing board yet?


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

alright... fat tires SUCK for street/dj/park... just weigh you down and suck for accel... go with the skinnies. I'd put a vote in for some 26" Tioga FS100's, or you can have a Kenda K-rad 1.95 rear and the 2.3 front, that is a nice combo, oh wait, that is 24" only... 
no more than 100mm of travel... 
I would agree with the use of bmx parts, but that is not so relative to the frame, as most bmx cranks use euro bb anyway (unless you make it a Mid/Spanish bb, but is pretty uneccesary at this point I think). 
Sorry, but I just have to say, I don't think it could be a 100% DEDICATED street rig since it is aluminum, hate to discriminate here. I'm not saying can't ride street on it or on aluminum or anything, but alu is just too brittle, harsh, and lower direct impact strength, and faster rate of failure, stuff like that. I don't necessarily dislike aluminum either, all of my other bikes are aluminum, so I'm still stoked to see how this one turns out as well.

and, pavement hurts, I'd say that anybody with an eye for quality will be able to spot an A1 prime-cut, custom bike out of a pack of mundane big seller bikes in a flash, no matter what color it is.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Bah, I'd stand up for aluminum, I ride it since I've got but one bike. And really, I run 2.4 Holy Rollers, and I mean they work very well, and provide me with a ton of traction, and they aren't really that heavy, I think many really fat tires are heavy but wouldn't say they are all bad. Oh and an huzzah for bmx parts, that'd be so sweet to ride with bmx hubs and all, totally ****ing pimpin'!


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

i say have the clamp for the seat conect derectly to the frame 
in urban or dj i never need to move my seat and you could take a away all the weight from the post and clamp away


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Geez aggie, you need your own forum called urban weight weenie!


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

haha 
i really dont care all that much about wieght but iv just always thought that wouldbe cool


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

BikeSATORI said:


> and, pavement hurts, I'd say that anybody with an eye for quality will be able to spot an A1 prime-cut, custom bike out of a pack of mundane big seller bikes in a flash, no matter what color it is.


agreed, but an eyecatching paintjob only adds to the effect. just my 2¢


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

aggiebiker said:


> haha
> i really dont care all that much about wieght but iv just always thought that wouldbe cool


I'm not sure how much you know about older bikes but like many bikes arre like that. My old Trek 820 is like that, my old Ross Road Bike is like that too, just so you know.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

man, this bike will be sweet when done, post lots o' pictures

what is the budjet on this bike, if we are starting to plan forks and what not someone already mentioned nemesis tuned z-1, and i think this biek should be all white, get some white diety components, with a white frame, white fork, white camo seat, gold hubs (only a little bling man)...man this bike would look hot

deffinatly go nem. z-1 if you got the cash...this bike will be of the hook!


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Have we settled on 26s or 24s? I think a dual 24 aluminum SS street bike would be pretty ill.

Let's do some rediculous 75 degree HA, super low standover, 21 inch TT, 14.7 inch chainstays (is that about right?) with masses of tire clearance (gives you options if you want fat tires). Box section dropouts would be cool, but a super-solid sliding thru-axle would be pretty tits. Oh, and let's shoot for some rediculous low weight. 4.2 pounds for the frame? After all, my Addict weighs just under 5.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Cheers to that XSL, I do think the general consensus has been for 26's though.

And about all the white, I don't think we should build some wimpy emo bike.If we are building a wimpy bike black and pink is super. Maybe more like 50's hot rod, black frame with red wheels and white wall tires!(OK, so maybe not the white walls, but the red/white/black combo is pretty trick).


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## namaSSte (Dec 19, 2003)

free rider said:


> 21" effective TT
> 15" chainstays all the way in
> about a 40 or 41 inch wheelbase.
> 13" BB height
> ...


steeper angles for me. at least 72 on the head tube and if you can get the stays under 15", that would be sweet. 14mm horizontal drops (built in tensioners would be a nice touch), 110 spacing and 24" (naturally with a sub 15" backside). how about a built in london mod and 990 mounts as well? oh yeah, built in gyro tabs too.

not exactly a freeride machine but it's what I like in an urban/dj hardtail. fyi, Im on a USB Molly Maguire right now so this is close to that design. frankly, I think the boys at USB got it spot on with the Molly. the few addtions I mentioned (gyro tabs, the london mod, and tensioners) would just make it that much nicer.

keep up the great work Rick, nice to see you taking this on!


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

Epschoenly said:


> Cheers to that XSL, I do think the general consensus has been for 26's though.
> 
> And about all the white, I don't think we should build some wimpy emo bike.If we are building a wimpy bike black and pink is super. Maybe more like 50's hot rod, black frame with red wheels and white wall tires!(OK, so maybe not the white walls, but the red/white/black combo is pretty trick).


ok, well paint schemes are down the road...i think white is pimp, but thats my opinion

i vote for 24's seein how this is a urban/park bike, with horz. dropouts and ss, which again is an opinion

rtw, what is solid so far, what geo we goin with, what tire clearance...is anything set in stone, if so list it in your next post.

my vote for geo is

21" effective TT
15" chainstays
about a 40 inch wheelbase.
12" BB height
12.5" seat tube
72 degree head tube angle
70 degree seat tube angle

oh and what i found interesting about this thread is no one has argued or severly disagreed yet, everyone is open to changes and opinions...keep it up:thumbsup:


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## razzin idiot (Feb 10, 2006)

im gonna give a vote to the 26's with shortest chainstays poss with an option for grind guards?. bmx parts are a great idea, bmx hubs, brakes. as for colours, gotta be bright or a crazy coustom job e.g lepord or zedbra (sp?) skin print.

as for angles:
70/71 degree HA + SA
22" TT
short as poss chainstays
11.5-12" BB height
41" wheelbase
9/10" seat tube
crazy low stand over

great idea Rick shame i live in England, probably never get to see the beast in the flesh

RI


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

razzin idiot said:


> im gonna give a vote to the 26's with shortest chainstays poss with an option for grind guards?. bmx parts are a great idea, bmx hubs, brakes. as for colours, gotta be bright or a crazy coustom job e.g lepord or *zedbra* (sp?) skin print.


that made me laugh...its a zee not a zed....damn americans taught you that

"eh" to zee not "a" to zed

zebra


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## razzin idiot (Feb 10, 2006)

haha cheers, ill remember that lol


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## zaefod (Apr 8, 2005)

24"s would be cool but I think this project needs 26" wheels to keep it a true "mountain bike".
I like the idea of the powder coat Rick. Also keeping the seat tube short so the seat can be slammed. Personally I'm a fan of straight lines so I prefer the seat stays to run in-line with the top tube.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yeah. Look at a Duncon Cock. Gold. So sexy.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Im pretty sure this bike is gonna end up being like my dream bike...sigh


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## trevorh (Jul 31, 2006)

black/red comby sounds very nice.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

OK, so it appears that this are the things MOST of us agree on:

26" wheels
Bmx Parts(hubs, BB, crank, etc.)
Really low standover
Somewhere around a 20'' TT
As short as possible stays
80mm fork 
Looks like headtube angle about 73-35 degrees
12'' BB height
Short seat tube, around 10''

Thoughts, comments, let's discuss.oh, and angles, they have varied let's pick.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Gotta be wild. Crazy steep angles like Will was talking.


I'm with Epschoenly. If I could have run BMX parts on my P.1, I'd have King hubs.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

I amended list check it!


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Epschoenly said:


> OK, so it appears that this are the things MOST of us agree on:
> 
> 26" wheels
> Bmx Parts(hubs, BB, crank, etc.)
> ...


who took the tally on the 26'ers? I have no beef with it, just wondering - from everybody's numbers posted on cs length, looked like most wanted 24's... 26's are fine, but you aren't going to get any shorter than 15.625" which of course is still very short with 26's. And with that, all of you can throw out your idea of FAT tires, unless you lengthen the stays... I still don't understand the meats for street, we're not doing a tractor pull or mud bogging.
if the ha is set at like 73 or more, you DEF. won't want anymore than 80mm of travel, or nose dive might be insane, increasing the ha as susp compresses.
longer tt length than what you posted Eps, 20" is SHORT! shorter than any bmx bike. I'd still vote for around 21.5-22" or so, with a 45-50mm stem.

oh yeah, as for the 110mm rear spacing... this will limit to V or U brake, and RTW will have to build a new wheel for the rear using a bmx cassette hub. as for everything else bmx, that can still be used on most mtb standards, unless a Mid BB were to be used, then a special bb shell would need to be welded in the jig.

and most of all, I personally dig the hot rod duece-coupe theme, flat black with minimal red and white pinstriping, von-dutch style or something. white walls could be sweet, maybe with halo rims, ohhh.... I think I like that idea just about as much as I hate the all white and gold shyt...

so, Rick, are you going with a normal 1 1/8th headtube? campy integrated might be a nice touch, but not necessary.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

this bike sounds sweet, now we just need ot wait for rick to post up what weve got so far, and see what we want set for the jig....i still think the white with a tiny touch of shiny gold would be sick, but that von duestch thing bike satori mentioned sounds sweet as well.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Satori, I may have miscounted on the 24 v. 26 thing, but I still feel like 26's make more sense for building a "mountain" bike, rather than a cruiser. Also, yha about TT i realized I was wrong buthad to leave w/e a cance to edit. I saw a few speak about about the steep angles, from I think lowest of 71 all the way up to 75, so 73 would be a nice compromise I think. Also, yah 80mm for would be good. I really think this should be built with BMX components! We don't need discs for an urban bike at all, plus the stregnth is rediculous. We can just get a Euro BB setup. And I'm thinkin more Rat Rod, than Duece Coop, but yah Kustom Bike Kulture all the way!


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

Epschoenly said:


> Satori, I may have miscounted on the 24 v. 26 thing, but I still feel like 26's make more sense for building a "mountain" bike, rather than a cruiser. Also, yha about TT i realized I was wrong buthad to leave w/e a cance to edit. I saw a few speak about about the steep angles, from I think lowest of 71 all the way up to 75, so 73 would be a nice compromise I think. Also, yah 80mm for would be good. I really think this should be built with BMX components! We don't need discs for an urban bike at all, plus the stregnth is rediculous. We can just get a Euro BB setup. And I'm thinkin more Rat Rod, than Duece Coop, but yah Kustom Bike Kulture all the way!


i vote 24's


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Why? Tell me why, I mean lets make this a progressive MTB, not built BMX cruiser.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Epschoenly said:


> Why? Tell me why, I mean lets make this a progressive MTB, not built BMX cruiser.


IF this were going to be a dedicated street rig, I'd vote 24's as well, since that's what I rock, but for reasons already mentioned, I don't personally see this one turning out quite that way... I'm not going to get into the 24 vs 26 argument, it's just better for a street app., have you experienced it? and it's not a cruiser, get that straight.
but, as for why? you were the one pushing so hard for BMX parts, even a proprietary 110mm rear spacing- so why contradict yourself now? your logic somewhat baffles me here.
now, RTW's the authority here, I'm sure he will post exactly which direction he is going, and exactly why, and being the geniune biker bro he is, he posted this up here for our input and opinion, not our takeover, overseeing, and orders...


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

Hey,
Watching the ideas generated from this thread is why I did it. We, and I mean We, will build this sick thing.
I'm thinkin' maybe 3 bikes from this ?
It's weird, I view the thread, and think, Why did'nt I think of that ?
And then, my wife tell's me because I'm not 20, or 17 or 15.
And she tell's me it's because I don't urban huck !!
Imagine that from a 45 year old woman !
I went tube hunting, and scored.
I'm modifying my jig to do steel, which means some machining, and creative plumbing.
Hang with me.
RTW.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

rickthewelder said:


> Hey,
> Watching the ideas generated from this thread is why I did it. We, and I mean We, will build this sick thing.
> I'm thinkin' maybe 3 bikes from this ?
> It's weird, I view the thread, and think, Why did'nt I think of that ?
> ...


modding the jig to work with steel... ohhoho, now we're talkin'! in that case my vote 100% goes for 24's and 14.7 chainstays!


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## Str8NoobYo (Aug 3, 2006)

Rick you should start a collection!


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Sweet, I don't want to argue I just really like 26's, and no I haven't ridden much on 24's, I just wanna keep this more towards our Mtb roots I guess, no stink meant. RTW, that sounds totally schweet! I'm excited to see this.


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## cranberry (Nov 15, 2005)

Epschoenly said:


> Maybe more like 50's hot rod, black frame with red wheels...


*
Yes SIR!!! *
I'm in the process of building a 700c *fixie* for riding to class and that's the paint scheme I'm using. The black HAS to be flat and the red SUPER high gloss. Forget the white walls, go with white spokes:thumbsup:
Red hubs and rims with white spokes........HOT!


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## cranberry (Nov 15, 2005)

If this bike will see much park action, 24's are the way to go. I built a 26'r for park and it felt REAL cramped in the half. I ride a General Lee 24 in the park now and it's the shiz-nit!


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## R1D3R (Jun 4, 2005)

*This is a really cool idea*

Heres what I'm thinking.

Short chain stays to keep it flicky.

Lots of tire clearance.

Really low stand over.

26 inch wheels.

Single speed.

For colours I'd say green with white highlights. So green frame with a Rock Shox Argyle(green) or a Marzocchi z1 in white with reduced travel, and white cranks, and white rims, etc.

Can't wait to see this :thumbsup:


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

I think that pretty much every avenue has been explored when it comes to geometry, wheel size, etc... Some people are starting to get a little heated too. Before any mudslinging starts, can anyone think of anything that hasn't been said at least twice? There have been some great ideas here, but some things are starting to get repetitive. Has anyone mentioned ISCG? I don't feel like going through the posts . Let's drop the issue of wheel size and what makes a mountain bike (as opposed to BMX cruiser) while we're at it.


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

pavement_hurts said:


> I think that pretty much every avenue has been explored when it comes to geometry, wheel size, etc... Some people are starting to get a little heated too. Before any mudslinging starts, can anyone think of anything that hasn't been said at least twice? There have been some great ideas here, but some things are starting to get repetitive. Has anyone mentioned ISCG? I don't feel like going through the posts . Let's drop the issue of wheel size and what makes a mountain bike (as opposed to BMX cruiser) while we're at it.


Hey,
Fvck, what a week.
My jig is still tied up, I think I have all parts covered though.. I got a bounced check from the valve cover guy, that screwed me with my machinist, but, what a week here, eh?
I just read every post and decided I have to read them again.
Today I spent pretty much all day welding monocoque top tubes for 6.6's for Intense here @ home.
( see pic enclosed ).
Tomorrow I'm taking my old lady's 60 year old uncle ( from Montana, a photo teacher from the University of Montana ) for a ride, he's a roadie, on a fire road ride.
When I get back, I will determine the direction we are going to go ( in my opinion ), and check back with you guy's.
WE have the last word, not ME.
C'ya, and thanks to everyone for patience.
Rick.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

I like freeriders Idea, but i'm thinking more like 14.5" Chainstays when the axle is slamed with enough room for a 2.5" tire. Inverted 990 BMX brake mounts on the seatstay. 12 BB so the bike will be stable in a manual even more so if you run 24" wheels, a 73 degree headtube angle for street park and DJ. and for sure a 21" top tube.

Some of us aren't so tall.

Great project.



free rider said:


> 21" effective TT
> 15" chainstays all the way in
> about a 40 or 41 inch wheelbase.
> 13" BB height
> ...


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Nice welds rick, very nice. We need a general consensus on wheel size, first of all.

Something everyone seems to agree on: 
-Shortest chainstays available(I'd personally like horizontal dropouts, adjustable CS length and allows for an easier singlespeed conversion)
-A huge amount of standover height
-Big tire clearance
-The fork seems to revolve around 80 to 100mm.


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

snaky69 said:


> Nice welds rick, very nice. We need a general consensus on wheel size, first of all.
> 
> Something everyone seems to agree on:
> -Shortest chainstays available(I'd personally like horizontal dropouts, adjustable CS length and allows for an easier singlespeed conversion)
> ...


Allright,
Here are some thoughts.
Short chainstays, I totally agree with also. My camo frame went that way, and no kidding it is a trip ! Its very hard to describe how different it handles than traditional 16 3/4 mtb stays.
I ( and my test mules, and i love you guys  ride it on the same stuff we ride our trail dual suspended rigs on and it is so flicky, and twisty, and climbs like a goat, that you almost forget it is a hardtail, let alone a 30 lb'er.
Absolutely short chainstays. I'll show you guys when we are fitting it up just how short we can get away with. We will have to come up with a new kind of yoke that has the clearance we need, because I also agree we go with the fattest, gnarliest tires we can stick on it. Maybe a wider BB too for the new yoke ?
I'm open to fork size, I currently run from a 130 to 180 on my other bikes, and all my mules mentioned a shorter fork on the camo frame.
We, or I mean you guys need to form a consensus, cuz I'll need to know when setting up the frame jig.
The standover should be low, if for no other reason it looks sick..........
I'll look into vertical d/o's this week, I work with some very smart bike people @ Intense.
Oh yea, the 2 color paint scheme sounds good, real good. Have all of you seen Bikesatori's rig ? Check the'' smooth movin' steel'' thread. That thing does something to me.
Anyway, I'll check back in when I find out when I'm getting my jig back, as I also have a dude waiting on a XC hardtail from me.
Peace.
RTW.


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## R1D3R (Jun 4, 2005)

You know how the Specialized P2 and P3 have that extra tube that connects the seat tube and the top tube? Something like that would be cool.:thumbsup:


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

> You know how the Specialized P2 and P3 have that extra tube that connects the seat tube and the top tube? Something like that would be cool.


yea that would

...i vote for big beefy wide 26"'s


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Good, to hear from you Rick! We may need to get a poll going for the fork, I'd hope it around 80 milli's but we'l find some fair way on that, PM with ideas I guess.About the extra tube from seat to TT, it look alright, but I think structurally speaking that 3rd trinagle doesn't make much differnce an it would restrict seat height possibility. 
I have been ruminating on the subject, and I think 24's may not be so bad, I was sort of a stickler before, but I really think it may be pretty sweet. 
Glad y'all are diggin the 50's hot rod look. I think it's pretty sweet. 
Kepp up the ideas all, and maybe I'll set up some polls, here soon to see waht about wheels size etc.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

i say its an mtb so we gotta have beefy 26s

and the triangulated seat post thing on the p bike would be to restircting on seat height for sure

and btw rtw nice welds


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

how about double toptubes like the imperial 
heck i almost would build a straight imperial given the choice but this is its own bike
double tts would be indestructible


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## ibanezrg520kid (Oct 27, 2005)

an imperial rip off would be cool and uncool. don't wanna be the same,

but i DO think that it'd be really really cool if Rick could do something like the imperial has when it comes to 3 different verital drop outs. this is assuming that gears have been decided. if it goes SS then it would be single speed, but i think i remember Rick saying that it would be geared, because he was talking about some new drop outs? i don't really remember lol, but something like that so there are different wheel bases that are opional would be gnarly. this way the bike could feel better with different suspension settings and all that good stuff. could run 24's or 26's if it wanted, but i figured we'd go with 26's, but it'd be nice to know the option of 24's is there if it was needed. 

but it is just a thought.


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## R1D3R (Jun 4, 2005)

Adjustable head angle would be cool.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

R1D3R said:


> Adjustable head angle would be cool.


Switching forks to achieve this works very well.


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## trevorh (Jul 31, 2006)

or a pike? no?


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## zaefod (Apr 8, 2005)

It seems like 80mm or 100mm is the standard here on the fork. My only thought on this is that there are more 100mm forks available for the use than 80mm (ie. Argyle).


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## ibanezrg520kid (Oct 27, 2005)

zaefod said:


> It seems like 80mm or 100mm is the standard here on the fork. My only thought on this is that there are more 100mm forks available for the use than 80mm (ie. Argyle).


yeah, there is always a gold label 80 or a fork that has been reduced.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

ibanezrg520kid said:


> yeah, there is always a gold label 80 or a fork that has been reduced.


namely a marz. z1 with something like nemesis's reduction


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## ibanezrg520kid (Oct 27, 2005)

free rider said:


> namely a marz. z1 with something like nemesis's reduction


yeah that is what i've been suggesting all along! those things are sexy! i'd love to have a steel park/street/dj bike with a super super low bb and a nemesis 65mm z1!


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

Guys, if we are building a park/street/dj bike, we need to involve bmx into the plans. no need for big 26" when street, dj, park is on smooth surfaces. 24" should be the way to go. Also, keep it clean with horizontal dropouts, singlespeed only. instead of haveing a big seatube sticking out over the top tube, cut it off at the top tube. Make a integrsted seatpost clamp like this eastern bmx frame. looks super clean and allows major seat droppage.


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## free-rider_down-hiller (Jun 1, 2005)

I think something like this would be sweet 15.5 - 16 inch Chain Stays, 21 - 22 inch TT, and a 69 or 70 degree head tube angle!


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

yea free-rider i like that i like the seat stays and the top tube how they go down but they have that extra bar that goes up i think that would look killer!!


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

ibanezrg520kid said:


> yeah that is what i've been suggesting all along! those things are sexy! i'd love to have a steel park/street/dj bike with a super super low bb and a nemesis 65mm z1!


Thank you for the great remarks on my forks , now let's stay on topic 
EDITED in respect to RTW : I dont want to take away anything from the VERY cool project he has going on here .


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## R1D3R (Jun 4, 2005)

I meant the way knolly does is. With the rear axel you can move up or down an inch or two.


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## ibanezrg520kid (Oct 27, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> Wait untill you see the new 07" StreetFighter prototype were building for Interbike


i can't wait man! i'm sure it'll be sick like always!!!


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

EDITED in respect to RTW: Sorry got carried away here , what RTW is doing here for this board is super cool !!
Didn't mean to "jack his thread " ... my apologies


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## ibanezrg520kid (Oct 27, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> Heheheheheh Muwahahahahaha ( in my best mad secientist voice ) You have NO idea how sick  Let's jsut say yesterday I was running around the shop giggling and laughing I was soo stoked ... gonna have to wait untill I-bike at the Rogue booth to seee this one


that is gnarly man!i hope you didn't scare anyone else in the shop though! do you have alot of new stuff coming out?


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## Sparkyrad (Feb 3, 2005)

*Way to Jack the Thread Evil!*

Way to go and jack Ricks thread on building a bike by promoting your products! Nice!
:madmax:


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Sparkyrad said:


> Way to go and jack Ricks thread on building a bike by promoting your products! Nice!
> :madmax:


In respect to Rick I wasent trying to jack his thread , I responded to a post about our forks . To be fair I will now go back and edit my post and remove said info . My apologies I wasent trying to "jack his thread "I got carried away and this was not fair to what RTW is doing here , which BTW I think is VERY cool of him to take on !!! Props to RTW !!!


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## ibanezrg520kid (Oct 27, 2005)

Sparkyrad said:


> Way to go and jack Ricks thread on building a bike by promoting your products! Nice!
> :madmax:


hey man, lighten up. i'm the one who mentioned his forks in the first place. brad is just proud of his work and we were talking about his products, so he jumped in. no biggie.


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> In respect to Rick I wasent trying to jack his thread , I responded to a post about our forks . To be fair I will now go back and edit my post and remove said info . My apologies I wasent trying to "jack his thread "I got carried away and this was not fair to what RTW is doing here , which BTW I think is VERY cool of him to take on !!! Props to RTW !!!


This is an '' unjackable '' thread, thats why I called it '' Lets '' make a frame. Sparky is a dear friend that is waiting on the XC frame I mentioned. He has a stable that makes me jealous. He is also a pure free rider, with a 5 year old son who kicks a$$ on his BMX. You guys would be impressed !
I would be honored if Brad puts in his 2 cents, I want everyones 2 cents.
Today, I went to my machinist and we finalized the mods to my jig. It is going to be a 1 of a kind.
I'm very jacked.
I'm not going to sell this bike. I don't even know if I am going ride it.......
Well, ok I'm going to take it for a spin 
Someone is getting it for free, we'll decide together.
Hey Brad, that Imperial is sick, eh ?, but I know we can do better. Think Aluminum. 
RTW.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

rickthewelder said:


> Hey Brad, that Imperial is sick, eh ?, but I know we can do better. Think Aluminum.
> RTW.


Rick ... you may have me mistaken with Dave Weagle he designed the imperial and owns EVIL bikes .

I design and build the Nemesis Project bikes ... evil4bc has been my personal email address since my bmx days .

I cant wait to see what you come upp with though , I've been checking the thread daily :thumbsup:


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## Sparkyrad (Feb 3, 2005)

*Sorry!*

Let me apologize to Evil. I apparently had a stick up my ass that day for some reason other than lashing out at him. It was one of those days where I should have gone straight to bed versus sitting down and typing. Please accept my apologies! I know he makes great frames and he was merely passing that along. I should have kept my big mouth shut!

Sorry Rick that I detracted from the essence of your thread even more now. So let's
get back to the meat of this thread, MAKING A KICK ASS FRAME!


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

I've been checking this thread daily, and I just can't wait to see the final result. Have we reached an agreement on wheel and fork size with the polls someone posted up?


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Looking at the poll for fork size, 100mm seems to have won. I could not find the wheel size poll, maybe I didn't look hard enough. Out of curiosity rick, what is that bike in the background on the first pic? Can we get a pic of your whole stable?

Oh, and what type of tubing are we looking at right now? It is aluminum, that I can tell, but which alloy, 6061 or 7005? 

Sorry about all those questions, but I'm planning to study industrial design and welding, and building my own bikes and owning a bike as a living later, what a great life that would be. I even have more pics of my bike than of my girlfriend on my iPod... I'm pathetic.


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## Cru Jones (Aug 10, 2006)

*Cru's Ride*

This is a sweet idea, so I gotta throw in my 2 cents. Hey, that Bike CAD program from Bike Forest is awesome!! I've attached what I came up with. I vote for 26. And I like the idea of having the top tube in-line with the seat stay... it just looks super clean. But, in order to get a super low stand-over, I moved the seat stay intersection with the chain stay farther forward. To get back that lost strength, you could mount the dropouts on the bottom of the chain stay and insert a bracket to reinforce that angle. I also made the seat tube angle quite a bit steeper than most have recommended (75). This allows the back wheel to really be tucked for a super short chain stay and I think it would allow a better seat position for pinching the seat with your knees in the air (wouldn't have to lean back as far). I also made it fairly long, cuz I'm tall. Just my thoughts. This is a great idea! Hope it turns out well! :thumbsup:


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## trevorh (Jul 31, 2006)

that is dam neat, it just looks a bit weak where you moved the seat stay forward a bit like you said but still awesome looking.


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## dosh142 (Sep 25, 2005)

This frame is gonna turn out pretty cool. I like the idea of a small travel fork. So, how long have you been welding for Intense?


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

Cru Jones said:


> This is a sweet idea, so I gotta throw in my 2 cents. Hey, that Bike CAD program from Bike Forest is awesome!! I've attached what I came up with. I vote for 26. And I like the idea of having the top tube in-line with the seat stay... it just looks super clean. But, in order to get a super low stand-over, I moved the seat stay intersection with the chain stay farther forward. To get back that lost strength, you could mount the dropouts on the bottom of the chain stay and insert a bracket to reinforce that angle. I also made the seat tube angle quite a bit steeper than most have recommended (75). This allows the back wheel to really be tucked for a super short chain stay and I think it would allow a better seat position for pinching the seat with your knees in the air (wouldn't have to lean back as far). I also made it fairly long, cuz I'm tall. Just my thoughts. This is a great idea! Hope it turns out well! :thumbsup:


Wow.
Today I talked to JS about rake and kinked seat tubes, we were looking at the SOCOM, his new design for a light d/h speedster ( which has a kinked s/t ), I don't know if it is cool to say what he told me about the geo, but he did tell me how to do it..........
Awesome post, CRU.
RTW.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

im no expert so i dont no if this would even work, buti thought it mite be cool to have a 26 inch in the front and a 24 inc in the back kinda like the trek 69er


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

rickthewelder said:


> This is an '' unjackable '' thread, thats why I called it '' Lets '' make a frame. Sparky is a dear friend that is waiting on the XC frame I mentioned. He has a stable that makes me jealous. He is also a pure free rider, with a 5 year old son who kicks a$$ on his BMX. You guys would be impressed !
> I would be honored if Brad puts in his 2 cents, I want everyones 2 cents.
> Today, I went to my machinist and we finalized the mods to my jig. It is going to be a 1 of a kind.
> I'm very jacked.
> ...


wow, i think that would be the greatest thing for someone to recieve...not only will this bike be designed and bult by the people of mtbr, someone gets it for free.

i think it should be someone who has only positivley contributed to this thread and has offered the most advice used on this bike, as that would be the way that lucky person liked it


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I'm really excited to see how this turns out.

The 26/24 would slack it out. Unless the frame is designed with that in mind. It's not all that uncommon. The Specialized p1 cromo did a 26/24 setup.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

It's better to go either all 26 or all 24 if you ask me. Seems 26's and 100mm have won, so let's get together and find a geometry with those numbers in mind.


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

or someone can get it who cant afford a bike because they have a father who doesnt pay child support and a 5 mont old living in the same 20 year old house


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

snaky69 said:


> It's better to go either all 26 or all 24 if you ask me. Seems 26's and 100mm have won, so let's get together and find a geometry with those numbers in mind.


aight, new thread with geo only...go there to post your geometey votes and WE, (quote rick) can vote for the best one


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

free rider said:


> i think it should be someone who has only positivley contributed to this thread and has offered the most advice used on this bike, as that would be the way that lucky person liked it


that and who needs the bike the most


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

pavement_hurts said:


> that and who needs the bike the most


sorry, that ouwld rule everybody out but me, so that would be unfair

i need to put a good 2 hundo into my bike...oh well, thats tommorows job


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Been lurking, good to hear back from y'all.
Yah, in the polls i posted, which are perpetually open, 26's and 100 mm fork seemd to take the cake, so I imagine that it's be sweet to keep that in mind. 
To Cru Jones, that beast you described there looks ****ing sweet my man. The whole chainstay/ seatstay set-up is super trick. That's about one of the more original setups I've hear discussed. 
In terms of whom gets the bike, I think we shoudl leave that discussion until the very end of the build, what ever that ultimately means. I just don't want people to have some hope or expectation about getting a bike an then some one else gets it or something, just don't want any drama, or feeling hurt, about that.
I would liek anyone out there in the bike "biz" to see if if there is a possibilty of gettting parts to actualy build this bike up. Maybe all y'all boutique builder guys out there could throw in a part here or there, and make this a super sweet gift for someone.(oh, and sidebar, it's pretty funny what derfernerf said, since my dad is behind on child support and my house was built in the 20's, but I'm childless though...)
Thanks again for everyone for looking at the polls I put up, just thought it's make it easier to quantify our opinions.Thanks for support, and a vegetarian thread, Evan.


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

yea it is funny but trus and i have to edit what i said...i dont live in a house i live in a trailer...but becides that so 26" and 100mm is that what is going to be on the bike or is that just the highest vote...i hope RTW says some stuff soon and fill us in on some info


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

I'm interested in RTW's response, but so far on the polls, 26/100mm is looking the most pop. so I figure we shoudl start to use that as a sort of base line for further discussion.Eps.


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## ANdRewLIu6294 (Sep 16, 2005)

i honestly think that for the fork, it should be designed around 26" and 100mm like most people said, with a steepish head angle, but it should also have the capability to run 6"ish forks and have a slacker head angle.


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

Epschoenly said:


> I'm interested in RTW's response, but so far on the polls, 26/100mm is looking the most pop. so I figure we shoudl start to use that as a sort of base line for further discussion.Eps.


I voted, bro.
But it ain't just up to me. The only area I have last word is structural soundness. I have access to a software program that will tell me if what we come up with is doable, I also have a current AWS D1.2 Structural Aluminum Cert., and since someone is getting the frame, my welding business will be liable for that.
That red and black paint job is sick !! Can you guys put up a red and white one ?
RTW.


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

Does anyone like the integrated seatpost clamp idea?? The Eastern Grim Reaper bmx has it and so does the 2007 blk mrkt mobs. I like the design of the bmx one though, because its clamp is under the top tube, allowing for virtually no excess seat tube over the top tube. major seat dropage.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Sure, one less part to worry about, I dig it.


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

It would just make the whole bike look cleaner too.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

The whole integrated clamper would be a nice touch...

Oh, and Rick, what paintjobs are you talking about, the hot rod look we mentioned or what?

This bike is gonna be tres bon.


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

Epschoenly said:


> The whole integrated clamper would be a nice touch...
> 
> Oh, and Rick, what paintjobs are you talking about, the hot rod look we mentioned or what?
> 
> This bike is gonna be tres bon.


Hot Rod.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

It would really be a ***** to replace your integrated seat post clamp if somehow the threads got messed up. I'm not for it. 


Rick, I had an idea for a frame design that would be unlike any DJ bike on the market. Not that I would want one now, but since you're a welder and stuff, I've got to ask if a bike like this would work.

To get the idea of what it's all about, here are the for most important details to give an idea of the size:

Built to use 26" wheels (or 24, it wouldn't make a difference. I like my 26's)

Best used with a 80mm or less fork. 100 would screw the geometry. 

Has a seat tube length of 200 mm.

Has a top tube length of 596 mm (from center of ST to HT).

Some other details: Can run singlespeed or multi-speed (I'd run singlespeed), has disk tabs, and is made of 4130 (I think that's the material) Cr-Mo. 

I'll post some concept art if I can upload it somehow.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

dirtyharry said:


> It would really be a ***** to replace your integrated seat post clamp if somehow the threads got messed up. I'm not for it.
> 
> Ok, well I don't know your technical backround, so I make no assumptions, but there are allen bolts that are typically used for this very application. One look normal and the outher side is a female that the first threads into, both sides are keyed to accept an allen key.Or it could be a simple QR setup. I just don;t want you to nay say if you don't understand the whole deal.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

I know the seatpost clamp had to be replaced on the bike I bought used because the clamp threaded out. It would be awful if that happened and you couldn't replace it with out some serious hacking and burning.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Epschoenly said:


> dirtyharry said:
> 
> 
> > It would really be a ***** to replace your integrated seat post clamp if somehow the threads got messed up. I'm not for it.
> ...


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## cummings (May 21, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> Epschoenly said:
> 
> 
> > Ok EPS I'm jsut going to cut and paste your first 3 sentences back at you here ...
> ...


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Well, Evil, I didn't know there was so much to know about seat tube collar bolts, but thanks for the info. I never thought they'd be weak, I have them on two bieks and they'e worked for a good while, would it be possible to just use a nut and a bolt? real no frills setup!


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Epschoenly said:


> Well, Evil, I didn't know there was so much to know about seat tube collar bolts, but thanks for the info. I never thought they'd be weak, I have them on two bieks and they'e worked for a good while, would it be possible to just use a nut and a bolt? real no frills setup!


There have been various manufactures of seat collar bolts over the years , Campagnolo to be the best .. then some made in Taiwan , China and so on . Standards and tolerances change over time . In the past road bikes and some vintage MTB's have had investment cast collars brazed onto the frame , this gave the outward facing grove on the female end someplace to anchor itself into . Our problem today is that we can no longer get investment cast collars that work with todays designs and brazing seat collars onto your frames isn't cost efficient any longer . Then you run into the problem of finding a good seat collar bolt and so on .

You could if you were inclined to make this a production bike spend the money to make a collar with replaceable both hardware then if something did happen it could be easily replaced .

Or just go with a standard O.D for your seat-tube and use a after market coller :thumbsup:


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

bump fro discusion about parts and what ever else is needed on this frame, ive decided i will be using all geometry suggestions from this thread as well as the other one, as we dont have nearly enough

Rick, what else do we need to discuss?


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## R1D3R (Jun 4, 2005)

free rider said:


> bump fro discusion about parts and what ever else is needed on this frame, ive decided i will be using all geometry suggestions from this thread as well as the other one, as we dont have nearly enough
> 
> Rick, what else do we need to discuss?


We should probably deside on a size, and colour scheme. How about dull green with gold highlights and maybe a brown or black fork?


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Hot rod look was decided upon by the one who'll build that hot piece of metal  Sorry man.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Who's the boy wonder who thought of a hot rod look? 
I love shameless self promotion.Muahhaha!


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

I wish I could have the bike because i'm broke, but who wouldn't want a bike like that?
I think it should be sold on ebay, and then the money should go to charity after Rick takes some of it because of all the work he's putting into it.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Meh, for having put effort on it as well in my classes(oops...) and trying to put out ideas, I think we all deserve a shot at this bike equally. Rick is the one making it, so he'll have it in HIS hands, and from there, who knows where it'll go? It might make him catch the dj/urban bite and he may very well want to keep it to himself


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## trevorh (Jul 31, 2006)

hey rick could you pm some pics of your camo frame you were talking about? or just post some here. Im interested to see what that looks like


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

My frame idea. 79 degree ST, 71 degree HT, built for 80 mm fork. Disk tabs. Made of cr-mo, btw.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

hey cru, what was your bb height on your pictured "cad" bike. what was the drop from the rear axle? looks like quite a bit of drop... could be a bit of an optical illusion, but I'd like to hear the numbers, not stare at the cartoon...

and, if the chainstay were like that, you'd want to make clearance to be able to run even the smallest micro-drive set-up, just to make those happy. that way, with, say a 25 or 26t sprocket up front, you wouldn't be dragging or bouncin the chain off the chainstay.

what bb shell width is going on? I'd personally leave it at standard 68, but if there are those here who desire fatty tires, may want to go wider, but that leaves out using an off-the-shelf BMX crank, unless you drop the extra bucks on an aftermarket wider spindle...


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> hey cru, what was your bb height on your pictured "cad" bike. what was the drop from the rear axle? looks like quite a bit of drop... could be a bit of an optical illusion, but I'd like to hear the numbers, not stare at the cartoon...
> 
> and, if the chainstay were like that, you'd want to make clearance to be able to run even the smallest micro-drive set-up, just to make those happy. that way, with, say a 25 or 26t sprocket up front, you wouldn't be dragging or bouncin the chain off the chainstay.
> 
> what bb shell width is going on? I'd personally leave it at standard 68, but if there are those here who desire fatty tires, may want to go wider, but that leaves out using an off-the-shelf BMX crank, unless you drop the extra bucks on an aftermarket wider spindle...


I have both BB width's waiting.
What I liked about Cru's design, is it was not '' cookie cutter ''.
I'm not buildin' a cookie. Anyone can do that and call it a '' secret '' and go to a bike show.
Fvck that.
Were breaking new ground.
Things might not be going fast enough for some, and that makes me think of the story of the young bull, and the old bull.
If you have'nt heard it, let me know, I'll tell it to you.
And, I won't make anything that does'nt huck for real........
RTW.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

heck ya!


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## Cru Jones (Aug 10, 2006)

BikeSATORI said:


> hey cru, what was your bb height on your pictured "cad" bike. what was the drop from the rear axle? looks like quite a bit of drop... could be a bit of an optical illusion, but I'd like to hear the numbers, not stare at the cartoon...
> 
> and, if the chainstay were like that, you'd want to make clearance to be able to run even the smallest micro-drive set-up, just to make those happy. that way, with, say a 25 or 26t sprocket up front, you wouldn't be dragging or bouncin the chain off the chainstay.


BikeSATORI, the bb height on my first drawing is 11.97", or a drop of 30 mm (1.18"). I lowered it a little more on the newest drawing on the other thread. That one has a bb height of 11.6", or a drop of 39 mm (1.54").

You're right, chain clearance might have been an issue on the first drawing. I think it should be OK on the newest one and with the way that Rick has designed the dropouts. Ride on! :thumbsup:


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

What's a 'cookie cutter bike'?


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

I've been away for a little while. Has anything new developed? I don't feel like reading all the old posts...


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

dirtyharry said:


> What's a 'cookie cutter bike'?


A cookie cutter is a mold. So a "cookie cutter" bike is a bike that looks and feels like every other bike out there. It breaks out of it's mold.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

snaky69 said:


> A cookie cutter is a mold. So a "cookie cutter" bike is a bike that looks and feels like every other bike out there. It breaks out of it's mold.


the cookie monster rides it....*insert cookie monster voice here* COOKIE?


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

so uh....whats going on, havent heard form rtw in days


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

yea whats going on have we decided on a frame and when will is start to be made


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

We should get all the ideas together, we have mostly agreed on geometry, but I think we should use a little of everyone's input. Cru Jones drop outs, and say, part of free rider's geometry and bikesatori's or mine. I think that is what rick would like us to do.


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

snaky69 said:


> We should get all the ideas together, we have mostly agreed on geometry, but I think we should use a little of everyone's input. Cru Jones drop outs, and say, part of free rider's geometry and bikesatori's or mine. I think that is what rick would like us to do.


I had a very busy week @ Intense and Oldschool Welding.
I posted last in the moment thread, and have had no response. I threw out a couple of ideas, and said I would start the Cru drop outs. I will lay out the d/o's today or tomorrow, I have to put the disc mount/axle triangle in place with 15'' stays.
Read the other post and get back to me guys.
Thanks for the patience.
Rick.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

Is my frame a cookie cutter bike?


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

cool.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

To Dirty Harry, please try to keep the static to a minimum in this thread. I'm not trying to bust your chops too much, but it's confusing when there is 5 conversations going on in one thread. 

To Rick. Man I think that sounds great. Cru's droputs are the **** and I think everyone is really going to liek them in the end. Sweet deal on getting this started.


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## cranberry (Nov 15, 2005)

Disclaimer...The hot rod paint scheme was *NOT* my idea. I DID mention that I was building a road bike fixie in a hot rod scheme. Unfortunatly it is on hold for a while so I cant post pics. (Being 40, a full time stay-at-home Dad, and a full time Nursing student eliminated my disposable income.

Here's my idea on the paint scheme...

Flat black frame and fork with *no* decals, typical Thompson post and stem, White cranks/bars, Wheelset: High gloss "Hot rod red" rims/hubs with white spokes

And to keep it truly old school put Brooks leather saddle on it:thumbsup: (I think Tan would look better than the "wine" one pictured.









Watcha think?


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Just hawt.


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Yah I had brought up the hot rod look before, I'd have to say no on the brooks, but yes to a dj sattle upholstered with a mexican blanket.:thumbsup:


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

im allfor cranberries paint scheme but some pinstriping added in
and the mexican blanket saddle


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## cranberry (Nov 15, 2005)

Yeah, some old school red and white pin striping on the frame would look uber cool!
Not too much though.


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## R1D3R (Jun 4, 2005)

I know I have lots of colour scheme suggestions but heres one more.

Raw aluminum with green stays(or some part of the frame) and green writing to match the Rock Shox Argyle.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

how bout we through on some micro gearing 
25:9 ratio

thatle shave the weight and keep your chain ring outa the way

oh and ti spindals!


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

aggiebiker said:


> how bout we through on some micro gearing
> 25:9 ratio
> 
> thatle shave the weight and keep your chain ring outa the way
> ...


25:9 is for a bmx...
and the only way you can have an 11, 10, or 9 rear cog is if you run a bmx hub or Eastern26 135mm cassette hub, then buy an aftermarket 1-piece driver for it instead of using the slide on cogs... 12 would be our limit (on a typical mtb 9spd or SS cassette hub), but great news, with a 26"er, you could still run a 25t front ring for a great ratio, some might even want a 24 to keep the 2:1 ratio, but I like speed.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

im so confused


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