# Kowa 180 FR fork with infinite travel and hi/lo comp adjustment



## aenema (Apr 17, 2006)

A dude (zahgurim) just updated the canfield forum with his new build that includes a Kowa 180 FR fork. It is a 35mm stanchion, single crown air fork with infinite travel adjustment around 5.7lbs. Looks fantastic but site is very basic and literal translation from japanese. http://www.kowa-ss.co.jp/mtb.html

click on 'english' in middle right and then check out the 180fr. Here is his description, Anybody know more about it? Availability, price, support, internals sort of thing...

"Covic racing in the States was their distributor last year, but now Kowa Factory USA is listed on their website. Not sure if they're affiliated? I'm not sure what retail would be over there, or if it is even available as of yet.
Travel adjust is simple. Left air cart leg has a knob. Turn it 180 degrees, push fork to desired position, and turn knob back to original position to lock it in place.
I just measured A/C to be 582mm @ 180mm travel position.
I'd say it's comparable to a Lyrik, with 35mm stantions and a bit more travel available.
They claim 2.55kg, but I haven't weighed mine"

and the pic of his bike. I am very intrigued and want to know more, figured others may as well as a lot of us want a reliable travel adjust 180mm single crown fork.


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

Arent Kowa the brand Honda used on their DH bikes when they di the WC circuit ?

Im sure it was either Kowa or Showa.. both are brands that are japanese and do forks for MX stuff as well.


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## brillantesdv (Oct 24, 2007)

Honda used Showa


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## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

Kowa has some really good looking stuff, in all their range of forks.
There's a video showing them, the english is quite bad, but he's making the effort :thumbsup: and the images speak for themselves. (hint: 6.6lbs inverted dual crown with 40 mm stanchions)







DeanH said:


> Arent Kowa the brand Honda used on their DH bikes when they di the WC circuit ?
> 
> Im sure it was either Kowa or Showa.. both are brands that are japanese and do forks for MX stuff as well.


Honda used Showa


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

Showa, not Kowa - Noah


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

That would be cool to see. Wonder how much it would cost. Bos' offering is also pretty good, but pricey. Suntour has a 180 out there, rockbottom pricing, and the Euros seem to like it, for some reason.

Wish Avalanche would expand their offerings for internals for aftermarket usage. I like Push and all, but I can install the stuff myself and modify if need be, plus rebuild myself every year.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

hafnz said:


> Kowa has some really good looking stuff, in all their range of forks.
> There's a video showing them, the english is quite bad, but he's making the effort :thumbsup: and the images speak for themselves. (hint: 6.6lbs inverted dual crown with 40 mm stanchions)


Interesting video. Infinite travel adjust on ALL the dual crown/200mm forks...low weight....hmmm....if they are reliable and perform well, these might garner up a following... 

Hideous build on that bike used to show the 180mm...


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## brillantesdv (Oct 24, 2007)

video showed some nice forks. 5.9lbs for that proto machined DC fork. not bad. those inverted forks look like sweet. 40mm stanchions and kashima coating....shmexy.

very interesting they keep travel adjust on the dual crowns as well. might be useful for certain people...looking for a certain travel length...*cough*


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## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

brillantesdv said:


> very interesting they keep travel adjust on the dual crowns as well. might be useful for certain people...looking for a certain travel length...*cough*


He made a comment regarding the travel adjustment on the 200 mm forks that I first thought as "funny" but then I ended up thinking "it could be handy".
The fact that there's an easy infinite travel adjustment on a 200 mm does mean that in certain situations it's easier to carry/store by not having to take the front wheel off (and in DH forks removing it always means that you need some tools - not counting the new Boxxer ability to take the Totem/Lyrik/Domain Maxle Lite).

Speaking for myself, I live in a flat on a 4th floor. To carry my bike (with a Totem) up or down I have two options:
a) carry the bike through the stairs.
b) take the front wheel off to make it fit the elevator.

If I had a 200 mm fork I'd end up having to carry it, period and sometimes after a day riding it's just a pain.
It's not a big thing, sure, but it can be handy, I'd say that much more useful than the ability to lock it (thinking of the old Totem that has the Floodgate).


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## The Orange Prophet (Oct 4, 2006)

hafnz said:


> ...Speaking for myself, I live in a flat on a 4th floor. To carry my bike (with a Totem) up or down I have two options:
> a) carry the bike through the stairs.
> b) take the front wheel off to make it fit the elevator.


Ride the f*cker down!


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

All forks shown in the video look well made. That machined fork looks cool!.

2 Speed compression damping adjustment, rebound and infinite travel with Kashima coating... sounds good!


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## zahgurim (Aug 12, 2005)

Iceman2058 said:


> ...Hideous build on that bike used to show the 180mm...


Hoser! 

She's a fun ride. Heavy tires were for shuttling yesterday... Fork impressed me.

I have one of the GF air inverted's, too. It's sitting in a box, waiting for a build yet to be completed.
Figured there'd be a bit of interest in this fork. I've been waiting myself for a decent travel-adjust 180mm for quite a while. Didn't want to wait for Fox to get off their asses...

I'll keep you guys updated as to how it holds up.

And A/C is *572 @ 180mm*, just remeasured it.


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## The Dude (Jan 19, 2004)

i have tried to contact these guys and have had no responses at all. i wanted to try one of their forks but i never heard back from them. so i bought a fox.


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## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

I heard that the only drawback to the original 160Ss was the lack of a compression adjustment, does your 180 have one? Otherwise I understand these forks to be just awesome in terms of reliability and quality!


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

The Kowa site has the 180FR having compression adjustment. One thing I am quite wary is the compression knobs getting hit on something, as the lowers in older Kowa forks is machined with a "shield" the rebound knob from potential hits. Since the 180FR has the rebound knob on the crown, its no longer an issue, but the Fox 40-like knobs can get hit.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

zahgurim said:


> Hoser!
> 
> She's a fun ride. Heavy tires were for shuttling yesterday... Fork impressed me.
> 
> ...


   I was referring to the bike in the video from that tradeshow, with the Japaneese dude....that bike really was hideous...what were those handlebars, like off some beach cruiser?

YOUR build is about as hideous as Angelina Jolie cruising the Croisette in Cannes in her new Lambo... :thumbsup:


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## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

suicidebomber said:


> The Kowa site has the 180FR having compression adjustment. One thing I am quite wary is the compression knobs getting hit on something, as the lowers in older Kowa forks is machined with a "shield" the rebound knob from potential hits. Since the 180FR has the rebound knob on the crown, its no longer an issue, but the Fox 40-like knobs can get hit.


From this pictures I'd say that they took the "shield" to the rest of the line up and their compression adjustments don't seem to stick out more than say a rebound knob on most Rock Shox.


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## zahgurim (Aug 12, 2005)

160 singlecrown all the way up to the 200mm dualcrown all share the same lowers, similar to Marz's 888 and 66 setups a few years back. 

The dual compression adjusts do hang down and are a bit exposed. 
I'll eventually see what they can take... I sure won't be trying on purpose, but it's bound to take a hit, sometime.

Oddly, they run the Boxxer brake mount standard, as well. 
Something to keep in mind when sourcing/mounting brakes.


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## cactuscorn (Feb 5, 2004)

good to see another player on the field. this could get interesting. now, some random thoughts:

in this day and age, pinch bolts are dumb. i dont know of many riders who wouldnt pay extra for the maxle licensing. just admit it guys. sram nailed this 1 and its time to step up or pay up.

the shield idea is also very cool but why bother if yer not gonna protect more than the top half? there was a guy at sears point who showed up with a roll cage fully wrapped in foam. curious as to why, the tech inspectors started to dig only to find the cage was made from pvc pipe as a cost saver. this is kinda the same thing.

happy rabbit day


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

Thanks for the shield heads-up. The exposed knobs made me believe that the shield was gone.


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## flymybike (Jan 6, 2004)

I rode one of those briefly last spring. It was on the TW distibuters bike and I thought it was great (the travel adjust part). It was really fast and easy to get as much or little travel quickly. Thats why I keep tring the totem 2-step air. The fork felt smooth but It was a bit soft for me, was easy to bottom. Most likley just needed more air. Cool to see these options coming out.


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

Too bad they don't offer the Totem with the DH damper from the Lyrik.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

do a search in the suspension forum; there is a lengthy thread there that's a couple years old by now regarding kowa forks.I tried one, my impressions are in that thread.

for the lazy: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=337980
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=359926&highlight=kowa


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

yup linking to a thread with 3 year old products will enlighten us on how the current day product performs

 im not bashing but i dont see the relevant info in the old thread compared to the new lineup they have out now.


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## aenema (Apr 17, 2006)

Renegade said:


> do a search in the suspension forum; there is a lengthy thread there that's a couple years old by now regarding kowa forks.I tried one, my impressions are in that thread.
> 
> for the lazy: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=337980
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=359926&highlight=kowa


Those are different forks. Different travel and no compression adjustments at all. Those threads do not apply, nor to the impressions of the fork as (like I said), different product.


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## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

glitz said:


> Too bad they don't offer the Totem with the DH damper from the Lyrik.


What do you mean?
http://www.sram.com/node/165/brand/rockshox/src/fam


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

aenema said:


> Those are different forks. Different travel and no compression adjustments at all. Those threads do not apply, nor to the impressions of the fork as (like I said), different product.


same travel adjustment system, and untill I read enough glowing reviews, I will assume it has a similar performance level.
So what it has a compression adjuster; that doesn't necessarily mean it's a better fork now.


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## aenema (Apr 17, 2006)

We are all entitled to our assumptions. I am not eager to spout my opinions publicly when they are solely based on assumptions and will not let others peoples' affect mine in any way. I am looking for real world info and experience on these forks I mention. Could care less what you think about a fork they made three years ago.


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

hafnz said:


> What do you mean?
> http://www.sram.com/node/165/brand/rockshox/src/fam


Cool, but I'd rather have a Lyrik anyhow.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

aenema said:


> We are all entitled to our assumptions. I am not eager to spout my opinions publicly when they are solely based on assumptions and will not let others peoples' affect mine in any way. I am looking for real world info and experience on these forks I mention. Could care less what you think about a fork they made three years ago.


My opinion about the product they made does have some relevance; it shows where they came from, and what they have to overcome to improve. In leiu of you having no real info, take what you can get, don't stick your head in the sand just because you want to believe the fork is magical cause you're a canfield whore, and the fork is on your idol's canfield.


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## aenema (Apr 17, 2006)

Renegade said:


> My opinion about the product they made does have some relevance; it shows where they came from, and what they have to overcome to improve. In leiu of you having no real info, take what you can get, don't stick your head in the sand just because you want to believe the fork is magical cause you're a canfield whore, and the fork is on your idol's canfield.


Wow, really took that to a personal and downright nasty level there, I am surprised and frankly confused as to what prompted such an emotional attack. Truly impressive level of unjustified offensiveness. Not sure how you think that what you have to say will have any bearing after comments such as that. Point is, the fork you rode is not the same fork and your review of it is irrelevant to this post. If you have insight to the company itself, how they treated you or mistreated you. That would be nice. But frankly, I don't care about a fork they made 3+ years ago that is a different product altogether.


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## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

Any company can change at any time.
Rock Shox was craptastic for a lot of time, Marzocchi in a couple of recent years, same with Manitou that always had a bad rep but seem to have it together with some forks and some shocks for some time now.

All and all, I wish these Kowas were more accessible to try out, same with BOS, Canfields, Knollys, Morewoods, Sunns, Mondrakers ... that's the only bad thing I can see here. Being hard to try stuff before buying it.

If it's a good product/feels good we'll know after trying it, if they aren't we'll also know after trying it.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

aenema said:


> Wow, really took that to a personal and downright nasty level there, I am surprised and frankly confused as to what prompted such an emotional attack


Then reread your posts, and in between the lines.


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## aenema (Apr 17, 2006)

Ok, go ahead and have hurt feelings by my discounting your assumption as an e-speculation based upon unrelated products. Somebody is a little sensitive and may need to go to some sort of womens support group for that. 

I'm with Hafnz on this one. My main motivations for this post were to bring this product to peoples radars and maybe garner some interest. If we start talking about this en masse, maybe Kowa will hear and provide the product for our testing/trials. I think the demand for a fork like this is out there and I would be willing to give them a shot if the fork looks to be a contender.


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

how will we know if it's a contender and if they fixed their old problems? Maybe it's made for riding somewhere else in the world that doesn't bottom it like we do in the western world. So maybe we need to address those issues.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

aenema said:


> Ok, go ahead and have hurt feelings by my discounting your assumption as an e-speculation based upon unrelated products. Somebody is a little sensitive and may need to go to some sort of womens support group for that.
> 
> I'm with Hafnz on this one. My main motivations for this post were to bring this product to peoples radars and maybe garner some interest. If we start talking about this en masse, maybe Kowa will hear and provide the product for our testing/trials. I think the demand for a fork like this is out there and I would be willing to give them a shot if the fork looks to be a contender.


:lol: :lol: :lol: 
Dude, you need to put down the bong.


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## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

glitz said:


> how will we know if it's a contender and if they fixed their old problems? Maybe it's made for riding somewhere else in the world that doesn't bottom it like we do in the western world. So maybe we need to address those issues.


The answer is quite simple.
Either you try it (again, in case you already did) or wait for a review of someone who does.
Marzocchi is quite a good example in this case, after they got their production in Asia - probably not having everything dialed with the plant, tolerance-wise and so on - their products weren't on par with what they were supposed to. Yet, every review of their recent products now say they are.

Why can't this be the case with Kowa and their dampers?

I for one am really curious, not only with Kowa, but after seeing a couple of videos from the Japanese DH Nationals there's a lot of stuff they use and that we «westeners» don't, yet they perform quite well. If my memory doesn't trick me their reigning Japanese DH champ for a couple of seasons now (Yasushi Adachi) uses a fully custom frame, for instance. That is really interesting and it's what keeps the bike industry going forward, in my humble opinion.










Same curiosity goes towards Magura and their forks, for instance.
Every company has to start somewhere, probably not making the most stellar product ever on their first try.


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

I don't care what racers are using. It means nothing to me. I want to know how a product arrives and performs for someone who can't get a rebuild from a factory tech after every ride, custom valving, and all sorts of crap like that.


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## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

glitz said:


> I don't care what racers are using. It means nothing to me. I want to know how a product arrives and performs for someone who can't get a rebuild from a factory tech after every ride, custom valving, and all sorts of crap like that.


I mentioned the japanese racer on a purely curiosity perspective, as I think most of the non massed yet products should be looked at. Based on curiosity to see what's out there that we don't know yet. Being used by a racer or not.

But, I'll say that most of the times, it's those racers that test, the products we use (DH/FR/XC...), first and fine tune them to be used in a non custom and «standard» environment as you mention.


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## aenema (Apr 17, 2006)

glitz said:


> I don't care what racers are using. It means nothing to me. I want to know how a product arrives and performs for someone who can't get a rebuild from a factory tech after every ride, custom valving, and all sorts of crap like that.


I care in that the stuff that works will trickle down to the average consumers. Plus, I like to see the technology put into the sport when the budget isn't so much in question. But I understand your point, pro racers get support that is unrealistic to the rest of us.


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

If I wanted an unknown fork, with questionable performance, durability, and even parts availability, I'd go with X-fusion's Vengeance. Otherwise, it's Fox and Rock Shox. Maggie is ok in this area, but nothing special. They're a bit behind.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

glitz said:


> If I wanted an unknown fork, with questionable performance, durability, and even parts availability, I'd go with X-fusion's Vengeance. Otherwise, it's Fox and Rock Shox. Maggie is ok in this area, but nothing special. They're a bit behind.


Carefull Glitz; you're talking smack about aenema's new fab fork he knows nothing about. He might label you a hater too.


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

Hurting e-feelings is my specialty.


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## aenema (Apr 17, 2006)

It is very questionable, thus the quest for more info regarding it. I would not buy one unless I knew they were going to be around for a while and parts were available for us should we need them. I know nothing about this fork other than their web site and what people have posted on this forum. But like I stated above, my point is to show there is an interest for a fork, any fork, that has the features this one does. It could be Fox, Rockshox, X-Fusion, Magura, Renegade's custom garage built special. It doesn't matter, what matters is manufacturers see this and provide us a product we will buy. I think glitz is making very practical responses and am pretty much in complete agreement. I would like to be more optimistic but bottom line is, when it comes to spending my own money I would not risk it on a little heard of brand with minimal footprint in my area. But maybe by talking about this and maybe other forks like it (totem 2-step if it ever works) we can give manufacturers a push in this direction. We would all be winners when we have more features to pick from.


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

initial response from ze germans are that they rate these forks highly, in the performance stakes.

I havent heard any long term stuff as they are rather new still.

ill try and find out more as i trawl more german forums 

For me, i would still pick boxxers over these purely cos they seem to be around the same weight and performance, but a boxxers cost a bit less.

I would not touch anything form Marz for at least 1 more year, as for Fox, its expensive, and doesnt seem to be any better then RS atm.

As for BOS, well with a little luck ill get my new frame with a Bos on the rear soon, but thats a whole different story.

Btw, the Bos forks, are amazing im told by the 2 people i know that own them, but they are sponsored by a dealer so i would imagine they have to say that, but then again they are free to use anything they want since he stocks it all


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

Well, the German forums are the ones that rated the Suntour Durolux, or whatever it's called, very highly, despite it having no compression damping, no bottom out, falling apart on the trail, and in general, nothing good about it.


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

yeah they do have more then touring forums.

I ride on german tracks a few times a year, and talk to ppl who arent mindless journalists who will praise every product they get for free in the door.

So at least ill be able to get some decent knowledge and make in informed choice on why i would ever consider recommending anyone to even try this 

but hey, obviously this forum has more e-jockeys then any other with very few people that are in contact with anything else then fox RS or Marz.

Tbh, i recall why i took a break from this forum now. seems like its all about rude comments, attitude and general lack of respect for what other people would do to help out.


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

If only you knew.


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