# Chinese Carbon XS 26" build



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

My son and I are going to build this up over the winter for him. I have alot of parts laying around, so shouldn't end up to pricey in the end. We are hoping for under 20 LBS. geared, suspension fork, big tires & a wide riser bar. Claimed weight was 1150 grams ( no size specified - probably a medium ) so I was really happy when it ended up 1030 grams with the derailleur hanger. More pics to come of some of parts I already have.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

nice!


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

Looks pretty sleek. Cannot wait to see build photos!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Sweet. Have fun building.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks guys.
Rock Shox Sid Race = 1340 grams.
Uno oversize 70mm stem with Ti bolts = 83.8 grams. No I'm not buying him Ti bolts for this build, but I have an assortment of Ti,Aluminium,Nylon bolts left over from 4 frame up builds in the last few years.
Wellgo WR1 pedals with Ti axles = 167.7 grams. These came off his Spark RC jr. as he switched to clip-ins 2 years ago. I still have to add skateboard grip tape to these for more traction.
Ritchey carbon Superlogic OS 660 mm wide, 15mm riser = 160 grams.


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## md247 (Dec 8, 2011)

What's the actual size of the frame, I'm looking to do something similar for my daughter. Need a low stand over


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

md247 said:


> What's the actual size of the frame, I'm looking to do something similar for my daughter. Need a low stand over


I measure 14 3/4" from the center of the BB to the top of the seattube. From center BB to the top of the toptube at the seatube junction its 13"


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Excellent xc71. I've been wondering about one of these Chinese carbon frames for a kids bike build.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

TigWorld said:


> Excellent xc71. I've been wondering about one of these Chinese carbon frames for a kids bike build.


Thanks Tig. Just a heads up if you are really set on a certain look & finish on one of these. Most of these factory's offer UD,3K,12K in matte or gloss. In researching these frames I found what look & finish people were ordering was not what was being sent to them. Sure enough we got a different frame from what we ordered. Here's how are's went down - I PM the seller asking if they had a XS 3k weave in matte finish in stock, they replied back that they did. The website offers all looks & finishs at the same price, I order the 3k matte and also put a note in that we want the 3k matte. Frame shows up very fast - 5 days later on my door step but its 3k gloss. I PM the seller that its the wrong frame with there quotes that they had the frame in stock as well as a copy of my order clearly stating the 3k matte. Their reply was that I didn't write I wanted matte (which was obviously false ) and I didn't include an extra $10.00 for matte finish. This is obviously a scam were they tell you what you want to hear, then just ship you what they have in stock.They said I could return the frame if I wanted. In the end I don't care about the matte or gloss I'm just thrilled its 1030 grams.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

xc71 said:


> ... I'm just thrilled its 1030 grams.


Yep, 1030g with the hanger is sweet.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Hopefully this will be the worst part of this build - boat anchor cranks & BB. Have these sitting in the parts box & they've never been used as they came on his Scott Spark RC. Would love to remove the Middleburn cranks & Raceface Ti BB from his Spark for this build as it would probably save close to one pound, but he will be riding his Spark for big mountain XC rides next year. At least these cranks are 165mm & have 104/64 BCD so he's getting a used Extralite 32 chainring off my bike ( the one pictured is my new one, his is still on my bike ) & I have a BBG bashguard that will fit, both of these are really light & I'm mounting them with some older XTR aluminium chainring bolts.
I'm leaning towards 1 x 10 for this build, but having a hard time finding affordable lightweight 11/36 cassettes that don't weigh a ton. Does anyone know a source for affordable aluminium 11/36 cassttes, the few I've found online are double the price of what they were two years ago.
FSA ISIS BB = 352.5 grams
FSA Alpha Drive cranks = 539.4 grams
Extralite 32 chainring = 29.4 grams
BBG Ovalhole bashguard = 44.6 grams
Cranks, chainring, BBG & XTR bolts = 623.8


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Chain Reaction Cycles has XTR 11-36 for 178 dollars. Not cheap, but cheaper than everyone else. Picked one up for my wife's build. 100 grams lighter than XT.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks NY, great price for an XTR 11/36.


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

NYrr496 said:


> Chain Reaction Cycles has XTR 11-36 for 178 dollars. Not cheap, but cheaper than everyone else. Picked one up for my wife's build. 100 grams lighter than XT.


They also have 165 Xt cranks for 175 with the cupon code. Could save a few hundred grams there too.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

m-dub said:


> They also have 165 Xt cranks for 175 with the cupon code. Could save a few hundred grams there too.


Two weeks ago, I ordered a whole bunch of parts from them and got free shipping on my order over 99 dollars and an additional 10 percent off for typing in some goofy code. 
They're my new favorite parts house.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

m-dub said:


> They also have 165 Xt cranks for 175 with the cupon code. Could save a few hundred grams there too.


Would 165mm XT cranks be too long for a 8 year old on a Scott 24" scale?

Thanks!


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

GSJ1973 said:


> Would 165mm XT cranks be too long for a 8 year old on a Scott 24" scale?
> 
> Thanks!


Generally, yes, unless your 8yo is about 5 feet tall and the 24" is too small for him. A 24 inch bike usually comes with 152mm cranks, which is probably a bit too big already.


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

xc71 said:


> Thanks Tig. Just a heads up if you are really set on a certain look & finish on one of these. Most of these factory's offer UD,3K,12K in matte or gloss. In researching these frames I found what look & finish people were ordering was not what was being sent to them. Sure enough we got a different frame from what we ordered. Here's how are's went down - I PM the seller asking if they had a XS 3k weave in matte finish in stock, they replied back that they did. The website offers all looks & finishs at the same price, I order the 3k matte and also put a note in that we want the 3k matte. Frame shows up very fast - 5 days later on my door step but its 3k gloss. I PM the seller that its the wrong frame with there quotes that they had the frame in stock as well as a copy of my order clearly stating the 3k matte. Their reply was that I didn't write I wanted matte (which was obviously false ) and I didn't include an extra $10.00 for matte finish. This is obviously a scam were they tell you what you want to hear, then just ship you what they have in stock.They said I could return the frame if I wanted. In the end I don't care about the matte or gloss I'm just thrilled its 1030 grams.


5 Days later? Wow, that is fast. You ordered from the chinese on E-bay, right?


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

xc71 said:


> Thanks Tig. Just a heads up if you are really set on a certain look & finish on one of these. Most of these factory's offer UD,3K,12K in matte or gloss. In researching these frames I found what look & finish people were ordering was not what was being sent to them. Sure enough we got a different frame from what we ordered. Here's how are's went down - I PM the seller asking if they had a XS 3k weave in matte finish in stock, they replied back that they did. The website offers all looks & finishs at the same price, I order the 3k matte and also put a note in that we want the 3k matte. Frame shows up very fast - 5 days later on my door step but its 3k gloss. I PM the seller that its the wrong frame with there quotes that they had the frame in stock as well as a copy of my order clearly stating the 3k matte. Their reply was that I didn't write I wanted matte (which was obviously false ) and I didn't include an extra $10.00 for matte finish. This is obviously a scam were they tell you what you want to hear, then just ship you what they have in stock.They said I could return the frame if I wanted. In the end I don't care about the matte or gloss I'm just thrilled its 1030 grams.


5 Days later? Wow, that is fast. You ordered from the chinese on E-bay, right?

Thanks for taking the time to post. Very interested to see how your project turns out. Have fun!


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Asmodeus2112 said:


> 5 Days later? Wow, that is fast. You ordered from the chinese on E-bay, right?
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to post. Very interested to see how your project turns out. Have fun!


Thanks. Ya I was shocked it was on my door step 5 days after I ordered it. If you seach "chinese carbon frames for sale" you'll get a ton of them come up. This one was through Alibaba.
When questioning them on the style of headset this frame took, they offered me a headset for $10.00 & I bought it. Also got a spare derailleur hanger for $5.00.
The headset comes with a star nut, top cap & steel bolt. Those items have been removed from the pic & replaced with a CC top cap & Aluminium bolt. Star nut is already in the Sid Race.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

Asmodeus2112 said:


> 5 Days later? Wow, that is fast. You ordered from the chinese on E-bay, right?
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to post. Very interested to see how your project turns out. Have fun!


Shipping is hit or miss. I've ordered some things from Asia before, and some are extremely fast, and some take a while. Some of these shops have US side "distributors" (or some guy running it out of his house/apartment).

When I ordered my carbon wheels, it took a while to make the wheel (custom order), but once built, it shipped really fast too.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

xc71 said:


> they offered me a headset for $10.00 & I bought it. Also got a spare derailleur hanger for $5.00.


Are those bearing cartridges or cage style?


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

IAmHolland said:


> Are those bearing cartridges or cage style?


The bearings are cartridge style. Although not CC or CK quality, it seems decent for 10 bucks, we"ll see how long it lasts.
CRC had XTR M980 11/36 10 speed cassettes on for $169.93 CAD. Also got him a SLX rear shifter and few other items to make sure my total was $250.00. With their X-Mas voucher codes I then got $50.00 off my order - so the XTR cassette cost me $135.00 CAD amazing good deal! I had been watching CRC for Medium cage XT clutch rear derailleurs to come back in stock but misted the XTR cassette price so thanks again NY.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

xc71 said:


> The bearings are cartridge style. Although not CC or CK quality, it seems decent for 10 bucks, we"ll see how long it lasts.
> CRC had XTR M980 11/36 10 speed cassettes on for $169.93 CAD. Also got him a SLX rear shifter and few other items to make sure my total was $250.00. With their X-Mas voucher codes I then got $50.00 off my order - so the XTR cassette cost me $135.00 CAD amazing good deal! I had been watching CRC for Medium cage XT clutch rear derailleurs to come back in stock but misted the XTR cassette price so thanks again NY.


Thanks for the info. I take it, it's a standard ZS44 standard? It doesn't look like IS?

This bike is going to be pimped out. I'm looking to do the same in a year or two.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

xc71 said:


> The bearings are cartridge style. Although not CC or CK quality, it seems decent for 10 bucks, we"ll see how long it lasts.
> CRC had XTR M980 11/36 10 speed cassettes on for $169.93 CAD. Also got him a SLX rear shifter and few other items to make sure my total was $250.00. With their X-Mas voucher codes I then got $50.00 off my order - so the XTR cassette cost me $135.00 CAD amazing good deal! I had been watching CRC for Medium cage XT clutch rear derailleurs to come back in stock but misted the XTR cassette price so thanks again NY.


Thanks for the info. I take it, it's a standard ZS44 standard? It doesn't look like IS?

This bike is going to be pimped out. I'm looking to do the same in a year or two.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

IAmHolland said:


> Thanks for the info. I take it, it's a standard ZS44 standard? It doesn't look like IS?
> 
> No not a ZS44, its a intigrated headset. It looks like a semi Int. on the scale pic, but it has short cups that go into the headtube then the bearing cartridges drop into those. Not familar with these cups as on my Ibis the bearings drop right into the headtube.


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## paulys_tx (Jul 14, 2007)

Hey XC71, which frame is this??? What vendor did you use??? About to pull the trigger for my 12 year old who wants a new ride this year and doing some research on the different companies out there.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

paulys_tx said:


> Hey XC71, which frame is this??? What vendor did you use??? About to pull the trigger for my 12 year old who wants a new ride this year and doing some research on the different companies out there.


The factory is HK Flyii Co.,Limited
Model - FR201
There is another option in this size and price range that looks like it has a lower top tube height, can't remember the model #, maybe FR16 or something like that. The reason I didn't go for that style is the cable mounts are fixed to the top of the toptube in a bad position - looks like it could do alot of damage to the groan area. With the cables running on the bottom of the toptube on the FR201 it looks a nice slick set up.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

xc71 said:


> The bearings are cartridge style. Although not CC or CK quality, it seems decent for 10 bucks, we"ll see how long it lasts.
> CRC had XTR M980 11/36 10 speed cassettes on for $169.93 CAD. Also got him a SLX rear shifter and few other items to make sure my total was $250.00. With their X-Mas voucher codes I then got $50.00 off my order - so the XTR cassette cost me $135.00 CAD amazing good deal! I had been watching CRC for Medium cage XT clutch rear derailleurs to come back in stock but misted the XTR cassette price so thanks again NY.


:thumbsup:


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

A2Z XCF-15 front hub showed up today. Its convertible from 15mm thru axle to 9mm QR. In the 15mm TA config. its 108.5 grams! QR its 115 grams. You can mount a 6 bolt rotor two different ways with this hub. 1) Use the standard 6 bolts.And these aren't included with the hub. 2) Install the 6 locktite coated set screws into the hub, place the rotor over them then thread the cassette style lockring into the hub which tightens against the rotor. You can see the lockring leaning against the bottom of the scale. Suprisingly this set up was lighter than 6 steel bolts. The lockring & set screws are 12.5 grams. 6 steel rotor bolts are 14 grams. To go full on weightweenie you could get the set screws in Ti or go with 3 Ti bolts & 3 aluminium bolts. I may splurge for 6 aluminium bolts & run 3 steel & 3 alum. in the front & rear hubs.
I'm thrilled with the weight on this hub as I looked high & low for a 15mm TA and/or 15 TA/9QR convertible hub & found nothing unless you wanted to spend big bucks. I couldn't find any convertible, light, cheap hubs, and the lightest 15mm TA hub I found was 162 grams.
I'm guessing this hub is a brand new style for A2Z as they don't even list it on their website. In all my searching I only came across two of these, both from the same seller.
Edit: forgot to mention the reason I wanted a convertible hub for this build is my son will start with the Sid Race 80mm travel, 9mm QR. When he gets taller I want to slacken the head angle and add more travel with a Sid 120mm travel, 15mm Thru axle.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Nice report on the XCF-15. I've wondered what they are like but have not been able to find any in recent times except gold coloured ones. I really like the front A2Z hubs (the rear is rubbish because of its dodgy engagement mechanism, but would work well for a kid's bike build). The XCF-15 is great value for money and pretty much the same weight as a Tune King hub, only about a third of the price.


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## BigHit-Maniac (Apr 13, 2004)

It's pretty sick that your kid's bike will be more blinged out than my adult bike. 

Hahaha. 

Cool beans yo!

:thumbsup:


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Extralite foam grips 15.6 grams, these have been trimmed down a few mm - lots of tight trees around here and I end up mangling the ends so he ends up with my old grips.
Ibis seatpost clamp with Ti bolt 15.6 grams, taken from Mom's bike as she went with a QR clamp.
Selle Italia SLR XP 180.7 grams. I think this saddle will work very well for him, other than being a little bit longer its similar in size to his Scott saddle which he really likes. ( Scott = 255 grams ) For the weight of the XP, its got a decent amount of padding and that great SLR shape which I find very comfy.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

XTR 11/36 ten speed cassette showed up.
KMC X10SL chain.
Just about have everything.Rear hub & seatpost should be here any day, still need rear derailleur and need to figure out rims and spokes.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Still don't have all the parts, but we started building today. He can't wait to ride it. And no, he's not getting the carbon New Ultimate seatpost & Tune Speedneedle saddle, just borrowed mine to hang the frame in the stand until his seatpost shoes up.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

XT clutch rear derailleur & seatpost showed up, so just down to waiting for wheelparts to show up.
These clutch derailleurs are beefy at 257 grams.
Seatpost was a cheap no name carbon post $43.00 shipped. 31.6 X 350 = 186 grams.
After I cut it to the correct length of 250mm it was 151.4.
The upper yokes are really light - same weight as KCNC yokes, but the steel bolts and lower cradle are heavy. I had some Ti bolts from an older seatpost and I made a new lower cradle out of an offcut from a Easton 30.9mm carbon seatpost. This also fit really well into the half circle cut out at the top of the seatpost where it rests. The stock lower cradle had a terrible fit with gaps on both sides.
Final weight = 131.8.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Great stuff. Very ingenious way to make an ultra-light lower cradle.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks Tig


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Got a set of the new Circus Monkey HDW3 hubs. Will only be using the rear as I'm using the A2Z XCF 15 hub mentioned above. The CM rear came in at 223.3 grams so between the two hubs should help make for a light wheelset. The CM hubs came with QR's and just expected them to be heavy steel QR's. I was shocked when I dropped them on the scale and they weighed 45.9 grams for the pair. A magnet test confirmed they were Ti.
For the money really happy with the hubs/QR's.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

That's awesome XC71. I was thinking about getting that exact combo. Nice that the colour matches. What's the engagement mechanism like on the HDW3?


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

TigWorld said:


> That's awesome XC71. I was thinking about getting that exact combo. Nice that the colour matches. What's the engagement mechanism like on the HDW3?


 I'm not sure Tig. I had heard the engagement system was reliable and better than the previous HDW versions though. I'll take it apart some time and snap a pic.


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## SMKNTRLS (Sep 8, 2011)

Hi...

Don't mean to sideline this thread and maybe I'm really not intune with the realities of bike manufacturing but isn't this teaching our kids not to support American products? Looks like a lot of effort spent buying lots of individual products that maybe some of that money could have gone to buying an American frame? Sorry don't mean to be an a** I just am concerned about where our little ones are going to be working. Please bash me or evict me or do whatever you want but I'm just curious as to why? I'm not trying to be a hater here and I truly hope you and your son enjoy this time together. Sounds like a great bonding experience I hope to have with my kids


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

He already has a modded Scott Spark RC 24". The point of this was a budget build and ultra lightweight. Almost all of american company's selling carbon frames and parts are all made in Asia, i just went right to the source for approx. one tenth the cost. I guess i could of bought him the new made in america Trek carbom, but wasn't interested in dropping over $3000.00 just for the frame. To buy an american made bike that is the same weight range as this bike will cost well over 10,000.00. This one should be in the 18 lbs. range.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

TigWorld said:


> That's awesome XC71. I was thinking about getting that exact combo. Nice that the colour matches. What's the engagement mechanism like on the HDW3?


Here you go Tig. Looks like a decent design with the 3 pawls on the freehub body. Hopefully it will be more reliable than the A2Z rear hub you had issues with.


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

So what rims are you lacing to those hubs? I'm kind of in the same boat, but going a little cheaper with an AL frame (Sette Reken, $89.98 from Price point). Looking for some decent lightweight rims to lace to the hope hubs I have sitting at home. Any leads? Thinking about getting the Stan's 355s that are on sale at notubes.com.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

dnlwthrn said:


> So what rims are you lacing to those hubs? I'm kind of in the same boat, but going a little cheaper with an AL frame (Sette Reken, $89.98 from Price point). Looking for some decent lightweight rims to lace to the hope hubs I have sitting at home. Any leads? Thinking about getting the Stan's 355s that are on sale at notubes.com.


I'm going with Light-bicycle carbon rims. Wanted to build him a strong/light wheelset as he will be likely taking these wheels to his next bike if they hold up. However getting the LB rims has turned into a Gong show. They told me they would be shipped to me over 4 weeks ago. At this time they are still not made and they can't tell me when they'll be finished. In hindsight a should have just gone with my original choice which was ZTR Alpines, if you can get them weighed before purchasing, I've seen these as light as 317 grams.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

xc71 said:


> Here you go Tig. Looks like a decent design with the 3 pawls on the freehub body. Hopefully it will be more reliable than the A2Z rear hub you had issues with.


Awesome. Looks like a much better engagement mechanism. Those hubs really look like a bargain for the weight. I think I'll get a set for may daughter's new 24" wheels.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

dnlwthrn said:


> So what rims are you lacing to those hubs? I'm kind of in the same boat, but going a little cheaper with an AL frame (Sette Reken, $89.98 from Price point). Looking for some decent lightweight rims to lace to the hope hubs I have sitting at home. Any leads? Thinking about getting the Stan's 355s that are on sale at notubes.com.


Try 2ndcycle.com.au - they have ZTR alpines for $60 each - NoTubes Rim ZTR Alpine 26" 32 Hole Black (TRD60) - 2ndCycle.com.au. The also have podium MMX rims for $71 each. Every now and then they have a 40% off sale. I recently stocked up on an obscene number of MMX rims for $42 each delivered.


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## asbefore (Jan 11, 2013)

looks fun!


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Well, better late than never. 7 weeks after Light-bicycles said I would have these rims, they finally show up. 3K matte weave.
360 & 357 grams. These have a 23mm inner width & are tubeless compatible. Now to figure out spoke length. Should be the last parts I need to finish this off.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Nice. Lucky kid.


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## tamjam (Jan 23, 2004)

How's this working out? Any pics of the complete bike? What is standover height on the final product? I am looking for my 10yr old's first 26er and can't bring myself to buy the 31lb Hardrock from the LBS, so am considering building up a variety of frames. I think he can manage anything with an ETT of 22" or less and standover of 28" or less so this Chinese carbon frame, the 14" Sette Reken, the 13.5" Soma B-Side but with 26" wheels instead of 650B, or a small Santa Cruz Chameleon are all on the short list.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Can't help with stand over height yet. Took 2 months to get rims and I had to wait for those to measure rims ERD to order spokes. Been 10 days since ordering spokes, so I hope to see them next week. Once the wheels are built the bike will be complete.
Its looking really good and I can tell you the weight should be in the 18ish lbs. range.


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## Rondo (Oct 14, 2011)

You can ride the KTM in the meanwhile... ;-)


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Spokes showed up - Sapim Laser & Sapim Polyax aluminum nipples.
Was very happy how the wheelset built up = 1356 grams.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Very nice.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Final weight = 18.49 lbs. I still need to trim some brake lines. He ended up with a very well-used set of XTR 975 brakes with Alligator Windcutter rotors. Rocket Ron 2.4 front, 2.25 rear.
Pleased with how it ended up with the exception of the boat anchor bottom bracket and semi boat anchor cranks. Eventually I'll have this bike in 17 lbs. ish range once he's done with his Scott Spark RC 24". I'll move the 160mm Middleburn cranks & Race Face Ti BB to this bike. The 2.4 RR & 180mm front rotor are over kill, but I had these parts on hand and will let him burn them off, replacing them with a 2.25 front & 160 rotor.


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## Joe Chan (Apr 23, 2013)

That's really looking nice. Good job.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks Joe.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

Great looking build, looking forward to seeing it eventually get down to 17#. 
As an aside, I notice a lot of kid-build bikes (like this one) and particularly those with significant front suspension wind-up with the handlebars set well above the level of the seat. On any of the MTBs I have ever setup for myself, I've never had the handlebars setup so high. Is there a biometric rational for setting up kids with such high handlebars or is this just the unintended consequence of trying to get them onto a frame that is larger than they would properly fit?


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

GrayJay said:


> ... the handlebars set well above the level of the seat...


I'd say your second explanation of "unintended consequence" is the right one. You can get 26er and even 29er frames with very short seat tubes and consequently low standover heights that you can fit kids on but you can't get the bars low enough for kids to be able to climb technical stuff. This is why I think there is still a place for 24" frames, they enable you to get the bars right, particularly for kids racing XC.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

GrayJay said:


> Great looking build, looking forward to seeing it eventually get down to 17#.
> As an aside, I notice a lot of kid-build bikes (like this one) and particularly those with significant front suspension wind-up with the handlebars set well above the level of the seat. On any of the MTBs I have ever setup for myself, I've never had the handlebars setup so high. Is there a biometric rational for setting up kids with such high handlebars or is this just the unintended consequence of trying to get them onto a frame that is larger than they would properly fit?


The seat height in the photo's is where he wanted it to hit some dirt jumps that he was going to. For XC rides he'll have it an inch or two higher. 
You see all kinds of 20 & 24" bikes with the seat height a lot lower than the bars and a lot of just comes down to kids don't feel comfortable tippy toed on two or even one foot to get the correct XC seat height like the bikes we set up for ourselves.
Thanks for the comments.


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## auntesther (Dec 2, 2004)

I just finished building one of these frames up for my son. Even with a 80mm fork, neg rise stem and flat bars the bar height is still a bit higher in relation to the saddle height than I would like. He doesnt seem to mind though. He is loving it. 

Well done xc71. This build was the inspriation to build one up for my son.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

auntesther said:


> I just finished building one of these frames up for my son. Even with a 80mm fork, neg rise stem and flat bars the bar height is still a bit higher in relation to the saddle height than I would like. He doesnt seem to mind though. He is loving it.
> 
> Well done xc71. This build was the inspriation to build one up for my son.


Thanks. My son is loving this bike as well. Is amazed at how fast it is and the light weight handling. What did yours end up weighing?


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## auntesther (Dec 2, 2004)

xc71 said:


> Thanks. My son is loving this bike as well. Is amazed at how fast it is and the light weight handling. What did yours end up weighing?


just about 20lbs flat. I had to make some concessions once the finance approval committee ( his mother) noticed what was going on.


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

Very nice!


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## allenpg (Jul 7, 2004)

Great looking bike! Looking at building something similar for my wife. Was this officially labeled as a 15" inch frame? How tall is your son? My wife is 5', so that's why I'm looking for small sizes. Thanks!


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

allenpg said:


> Great looking bike! Looking at building something similar for my wife. Was this officially labeled as a 15" inch frame? How tall is your son? My wife is 5', so that's why I'm looking for small sizes. Thanks!


Thanks. Yes, 15". My son is 4' 8".


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## the_walrus (Jun 29, 2010)

any idea what the final cost for the build was? I've got a couple of nine year olds that I need to build something downhill friendly for. This is just what I had in mind.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

the_walrus said:


> any idea what the final cost for the build was? I've got a couple of nine year olds that I need to build something downhill friendly for. This is just what I had in mind.


I've never added everything up as I had a lot of the parts laying around - some used, some new.The most expensive items were:
Frame = $315 shipped.
Sid Race fork = $170, got this off ebay and it was in excellent shape.
Wheels = $560, that's not including labor as I built them up.
You can get Middleburn 160mm cranks for $179 and they weigh about the same as XTR cranks.If your not in a rush ( I had made this one a winter project ) you could find the same parts spec or similar keeping on eye on Pink Bike, MTBR Classified, Ebay, Ali express.If you need new parts check CRC around X-Mas with their coupon deals, Getting the XTR 10 speed cassette for $134 was a great deal.
Good luck.


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## leugene (Jun 20, 2008)

Great thread! Probably got some photos in action?


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

leugene said:


> Great thread! Probably got some photos in action?


 Not yet, but will be taking some soon.


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Flip the bars - we have a guy that's pretty short that rides a 29'er and flips his bars over to get them lower..... Might be worth a shot to try.

Ed


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

great build, I want to make one fo rmyself but not sure if it will support my fata$$


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

So I had given my son a used Rocket Ron EVO 2.4 X 26 front tire for this build. One cool thing I've discovered with high volume 26" tires is how close these are to 650B tires. Considering most 650B tires measure in the 27.3 - 27.4" range, this tire measured 26.75". 
He said how well this bike rolls over rocks & roots, but I didn't think anything of it until we started measuring tires.
For adults looking to get closer to the 650B size, run this front with a Conti Race King Supersonic 2.2, this is a huge volume tire and also measured 26.75". - Also pictured.


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

XC71 - Can you repost the pics using IMG[] files, i.e. photobucket or some other online picture. Or just repost/attach the pics. The MTBR server went down and lost a lot of the attached images. Thanks,


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Photo's fixed.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

leugene said:


> Great thread! Probably got some photos in action?


 A few pics from Fernie BC, bike park.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Awesome. Great skills for a little guy.


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## john224 (Mar 27, 2007)

xc71, is the frame the 15" frame from that site? I'm looking to do a similar build for my daughter as well.

thanks
John


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

john224 said:


> xc71, is the frame the 15" frame from that site? I'm looking to do a similar build for my daughter as well.
> 
> thanks
> John


Yes, looks like all the standards are the same as my son's frame with the exception of the headtube has changed on the 15" to a tapered = 1 1/8 - 1 1/2".


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

john224 said:


> xc71, is the frame the 15" frame from that site? I'm looking to do a similar build for my daughter as well.
> 
> thanks
> John


 Not sure if you got a frame John. I'm helping a friend build one for his son. The new version FR201 XS with the tapered headtube is still a great starting weight.
He also scored a brand new Rockshox SID world Cup carbon 100mm tapered steer tube for $400.00. weight is with the remote lockout which he is going to remove and an uncut steertube.


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## biobike (Dec 20, 2009)

xc71 said:


> Got a set of the new Circus Monkey HDW3 hubs. Will only be using the rear as I'm using the A2Z XCF 15 hub mentioned above. The CM rear came in at 223.3 grams so between the two hubs should help make for a light wheelset. The CM hubs came with QR's and just expected them to be heavy steel QR's. I was shocked when I dropped them on the scale and they weighed 45.9 grams for the pair. A magnet test confirmed they were Ti.
> For the money really happy with the hubs/QR's.


Wondering which vendor you used for the Circus Monkey hubs... going to get a pair of the HDW2 and would love if they came with the quick releases.

(though maybe it was a mistake that they were included)!

thanks,
Todd


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Todd, I got the hubs from ebay seller funkyhorse99. They advertise the HDW3 coming with the skewers and I know of a few other buyers that also received the lightweight Ti skewers with their HDW3's. These lightweight hubs/skewers were a bargain - really happy with them so far.
I believe the seller works for CM, I would message them if they don't have what your looking for listed.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Me want. 

What is the smallest frame of this kind anybody found?


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

Axe said:


> Me want.
> 
> What is the smallest frame of this kind anybody found?


15"/16". I was looking for a 13" but nobody makes them.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

IAmHolland said:


> 15"/16". I was looking for a 13" but nobody makes them.


I found this on Alibaba: Free Shipping!!mtb Frame 26er Mtb Frame Cube 26er Mtb Frame - Buy Mtb Frame,26er Mtb Frame,Cube 26er Mtb Frame Product on Alibaba.com and a couple similar ones listed in 14", 536mm top tube, which maybe even a little short, I think it is about the same as her current Scott Spark Jr 24.

Need to find one without fake logos, with BSA BB, and double check everything. Sent them a request.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Just a fyi, you can buy these frames off Amazon too. Prices are the same and shipping is a bit cheaper. If anything happens you've got Amazon covering your back.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

thesmokingman said:


> Just a fyi, you can buy these frames off Amazon too. Prices are the same and shipping is a bit cheaper. If anything happens you've got Amazon covering your back.


Did not find any 14" ones on Amazon.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Received a quote for $420 delivered. Without the fake graphics, obviously. Contemplating. Another option is to do 14" On One 456 Evo, with 100mm fork, but that is like three extra pounds.


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## dcp_nz (Apr 16, 2009)

Axe, did you go any further with that frame ^^^. 
I'm stuck between buying a ridiculously heavy and under specced 24" or building a really good XS 26" for my daughter. That is the smallest one i've seen yet which is good.


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## cloudstrifez (Jun 1, 2014)

Hi all, I brought the CUBE 14" carbon frame 26er. It has a tapered headtube, but I'm not sure which cane creek headset would fit. I believe the frame headtube is expecting integrated headset. The cheap headset I brought from the frame builder is just a bearing that go into the headtube. I'm looking to upgrade to a nicer one.

XC71, what headset you use for the tapered headtube on your friend son's frame?

thanks!!


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

dcp_nz said:


> Axe, did you go any further with that frame ^^^.
> I'm stuck between buying a ridiculously heavy and under specced 24" or building a really good XS 26" for my daughter. That is the smallest one i've seen yet which is good.


Not yet, will order in July.

I have a nice build kit, from my old bike, but for cranks. Debating getting 150mm or 153mm with 28t ring, or 160mm flatland BMX crank (they are much lighter) with 26 front. Rear will be 11-40, with 16t inserted, and Zee derailleur. 160mm maybe a tad too long.

I do have a 24" full suspension, with a lot of upgrades. She could probably ride it for another year or two... but since I have a kit anyway, and she is tall enough.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

cloudstrifez said:


> Hi all, I brought the CUBE 14" carbon frame 26er. It has a tapered headtube, but I'm not sure which cane creek headset would fit. I believe the frame headtube is expecting integrated headset. The cheap headset I brought from the frame builder is just a bearing that go into the headtube. I'm looking to upgrade to a nicer one.
> 
> XC71, what headset you use for the tapered headtube on your friend son's frame?
> 
> thanks!!


He bought the headset from the frame seller, I had also bought the headset the frame seller was offering. Nothing wrong with them, they have both worked great, just remember to grease the bearing surface as it may creak otherwise.
I have the Cane Creek 110 Integrated headset on my bike and I don't see the need to spend 10 times the cost for the Cane Creek headset for a kids bike. Sure its better, but these Integrated headsets are just a crown race, two bearings, split pre-load ring and a top cap.


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## cloudstrifez (Jun 1, 2014)

xc71 said:


> He bought the headset from the frame seller, I had also bought the headset the frame seller was offering. Nothing wrong with them, they have both worked great, just remember to grease the bearing surface as it may creak otherwise.
> I have the Cane Creek 110 Integrated headset on my bike and I don't see the need to spend 10 times the cost for the Cane Creek headset for a kids bike. Sure its better, but these Integrated headsets are just a crown race, two bearings, split pre-load ring and a top cap.


Thanks for the help XC71! Actually I building this bike for myself as I could no longer find any good 26er bikes anymore. It seems like everyone is abandoning the 26er for 29er and 27.5er. I'm short so I like 26er. You just convinced me not to spend anymore on a headset. I'm way over my build budget anyway and still in need of an XT groupset.


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## dcp_nz (Apr 16, 2009)

cloudstrifez, 
how does the "cube" frame look quality wise? any concerns with quality or vendor?


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## cloudstrifez (Jun 1, 2014)

dcp_nz said:


> cloudstrifez,
> how does the "cube" frame look quality wise? any concerns with quality or vendor?


I brought cube frame size 14 on AliExpress for $420. I choose the UD matte finish so it looks very stealthy. This is my first carbon frame so I have no reference to compare to, but visually the frame looks well built enough. It also has internal cabling for shifters. Sure, there're other frames for $320, but those have external cabling and available in 3K Glossy finish only. Overall, it good enough. I know more when I actually test ride it.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

xc71 said:


> A2Z XCF-15 front hub showed up today. Its convertible from 15mm thru axle to 9mm QR. In the 15mm TA config. its 108.5 grams! QR its 115 grams. You can mount a 6 bolt rotor two different ways with this hub. 1) Use the standard 6 bolts.And these aren't included with the hub. 2) Install the 6 locktite coated set screws into the hub, place the rotor over them then thread the cassette style lockring into the hub which tightens against the rotor. You can see the lockring leaning against the bottom of the scale. Suprisingly this set up was lighter than 6 steel bolts. The lockring & set screws are 12.5 grams. 6 steel rotor bolts are 14 grams. To go full on weightweenie you could get the set screws in Ti or go with 3 Ti bolts & 3 aluminium bolts. I may splurge for 6 aluminium bolts & run 3 steel & 3 alum. in the front & rear hubs.
> I'm thrilled with the weight on this hub as I looked high & low for a 15mm TA and/or 15 TA/9QR convertible hub & found nothing unless you wanted to spend big bucks. I couldn't find any convertible, light, cheap hubs, and the lightest 15mm TA hub I found was 162 grams.
> I'm guessing this hub is a brand new style for A2Z as they don't even list it on their website. In all my searching I only came across two of these, both from the same seller.
> Edit: forgot to mention the reason I wanted a convertible hub for this build is my son will start with the Sid Race 80mm travel, 9mm QR. When he gets taller I want to slacken the head angle and add more travel with a Sid 120mm travel, 15mm Thru axle.


 For anyone looking for the A2Z XCF-15 front hub which have been almost impossible to find, Torontocycles has stock in Black and red for a reasonable price.
Cassette Lock Rings, A2z Skewers, Presta Valve Stem Caps


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## tubored (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm interested in getting one of these 14" frames. Can anyone who had a good experience give actual supplier names? There are so many of these "companies" and very little quality feedback on these sites.

Also, what are you all doing for bottom brackets/cranksets? How about front derailleurs, it appears you need to directly clamp one onto the carbon seat tube?

Thanks for sharing your experience.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Going to get rid of the boat anchor FSA cranks and FSA BB. Replacing with Middleburn 160mm cranks 104/64 spider, Race Face 30T narrow/wide chainring, Aluminum chainring bolts, Ti crank bolts ( from my parts bin ) Race Face Ti BB.
Also just installed Hope T-Rex 40 T cog.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

I finally got around to ordering one of those 14" frames, paid on Alibaba. Will update once it arrives.

Thinking of it, maybe it is even too small. Current 24" Scott FS has about 19.5" ETT, with 14" seat tube, and this new one listed at 536mm/21.1". Of course with 100mm 26" fork, compared to 60mm 24", it will have a much higher front end, but not sure size jump is big enough for reach. Will be kinda compact. Still, one size up, and I will swap frames sooner than later - as I have a second kid growing up, should be enough utilization.


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## Nyquist (May 12, 2005)

Look forward to seeing the build photos Axe. May I ask how much you paid for the frame?


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Received the frame in CA. $420 delivered with bottom bracket and headset included - matte UD finish, obviously without fake Cube logos.

1230g. Not the lightest. Seems quite well made. There is a little rattling sound inside on chainstay if I invert it and shake. Do not think it will rattle when ridden in the normal orientation. Decided not to care.

I will build over the week and post pictures. On first glance seems like a great option for the first 26" bike.


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## tubored (Mar 13, 2012)

Can you post a link or which seller you used?


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## cloudstrifez (Jun 1, 2014)

Axe how did your build go? Did you use a tapered fork with the frame? I have issue with tapered fork not clearing the headtube. The headtube length is only 95mm while I need at least 105mm to clear the fork.


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## Nyquist (May 12, 2005)

This 14.5" looks interesting, no geo info though, and the TT may be on the long side.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

cloudstrifez said:


> Axe how did your build go? Did you use a tapered fork with the frame? I have issue with tapered fork not clearing the headtube. The headtube length is only 95mm while I need at least 105mm to clear the fork.


I am getting more mileage from 24" for now. Build hit a snag as I could not find a cost effective short crank solution for stupid presfit BB (derp on my part)

Thinking of selling and getting 14" (more of a size gap), with threaded bracket to reuse 150mm square taper I have around.


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## jwilds1 (Dec 21, 2013)

Nyquist said:


> This 14.5" looks interesting, no geo info though, and the TT may be on the long side.
> 
> View attachment 997712


If that's from Peter at XMCarbonSpeed, here's the geo (let me know if you can't view the PDF).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx79G10ESQgcUDhZeWhQbUVZTjQ/view?usp=sharing


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

jwilds1 said:


> If that's from Peter at XMCarbonSpeed, here's the geo (let me know if you can't view the PDF).
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx79G10ESQgcUDhZeWhQbUVZTjQ/view?usp=sharing


At 560mm TT I would be looking at 27.5 hardtails...


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

Axe said:


> I am getting more mileage from 24" for now. Build hit a snag as I could not find a cost effective short crank solution for stupid presfit BB (derp on my part)
> 
> Thinking of selling and getting 14" (more of a size gap), with threaded bracket to reuse 150mm square taper I have around.


you could use a race face pf30 adapter ($50) and then standard shimano style cranks will fit.

I used bombshell cranks (68mm) which are working fine, though they are $210


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

goodmojo said:


> you could use a race face pf30 adapter ($50) and then standard shimano style cranks will fit.


Good timing with suggestion. I have Canfield Brothers 155mm GXT crank with 28t single ring in a shopping cart right now. Which doubles the cost of the project.

May still do it, as I will amortize it over another kid, they are DH worthy, and then can be used by my wife to spin on easy paths to put less load on her knees.

But will it fit? This one has PF92, I think adaptor will make it much too wide.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

I thought about it and ordered Canfield Brothers 155mm AM/DH cranks. I hope I will get few years of various uses from it.
So that build finally commences soon. Will post.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Just wanted to say I'm about to be a dad times 2 and these threads are filling me with all kinds of stoke.

Thanks for being rad, guys. Excited to join the club.


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## neilether (Sep 10, 2007)

Axe - any update on how the build went? I'm just jumping into one of these projects myself and have been considering that Canfield Crank.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Went great. Will take pictures later. 

Older SID fork - I found it easiest to tune for a light rider, Canfield cranks with 28t, 11-40 10 speed with Wolftooth cog, and 16t cog. Zee derailleur - works as is, but barely. 70mm stem and 580mm flat Easton bar. Hope Hoops wheels with rear tubeless Racing Ralph gatestar 2.25 and from 2.2 Nobby Nic with latex tube (that tire weeps way too much, non TR ready). 

Flybikes Ruben plastic pedals, I find them most secure among non steel pin ones.

My daughter is almost too tall for it. Will wait for her brother after this summer. I have another 26" bike to part out for her next one. Then she will get to my bikes I guess.


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## neilether (Sep 10, 2007)

Axe said:


> Went great. Will take pictures later.
> 
> Older SID fork - I found it easiest to tune for a light rider, Canfield cranks with 28t, 11-40 10 speed with Wolftooth cog, and 16t cog. Zee derailleur - works as is, but barely. 70mm stem and 580mm flat Easton bar. Hope Hoops wheels with rear tubeless Racing Ralph gatestar 2.25 and from 2.2 Nobby Nic with latex tube (that tire weeps way too much, non TR ready).
> 
> ...


How tall is your daughter? I'm rethinking this 14" frame for the 14.5" frame listed above in this thread. The 14" frame is only 6mm (basically negligible) longer than his current 24" Hotrock.

The longer top tube may be better long-term for my son. I wish it listed standover height in that pdf chart though. Hopefully the seller will be responsive so I can get that information.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

She is about 5'3" now, at 11. With 70mm stem and setback seatpost, quite good fit at the moment. We have fairly tight trails near out home.

While ETT is not much different from her 24" full suspension Scott, 26" is taller, and with a larger wheelbase, so it rides quite bigger, but still lets her get behind the saddle easier.

I am eyeing 16" On One carbon 456 with a 120mm fork I have around and 40mm stem as the next step up.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Build pics?


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## neilether (Sep 10, 2007)

I pulled the trigger. A 14.5" frame will be in my hands in 7-74 days, or however long it takes.....

Build so far:

-155mm Canfield Brothers crank which I'm excited about. 
-Older Fox 32 Fork. 
-Sram X9 1x10 drivetrain.
-40mm stem
-cheapo wheels I had laying around

Just need to decide on brakes and pick up a few other random bits. My son caught me talking about the build with one of my buddies, so it won't be a surprise anymore, but he's stoked. It'll be fun to get it built up.


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

neilether said:


> I pulled the trigger. A 14.5" frame will be in my hands in 7-74 days, or however long it takes.....
> 
> Build so far:
> 
> ...


I got my frame in about 1.5 weeks. As for brakes, Shimano Deore brakes rate very well and bleeding is very easy. Good luck. Pics when you are done.


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## neilether (Sep 10, 2007)

removed. Wrong forum.


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## Scott02 (Aug 12, 2015)

What have the standover heights been?


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