# Fish Oil



## Kshawn (Jul 22, 2012)

What's the general consensus about fish oil supplements? Good, bad, gimmick? I did a quick search but couldn't find any posts on it.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

A good quality fish oil is probably good for you. I'm 60 and taking some. Lower quality fish oils could, I suppose, concentrate environmental contaminants (such as mercury).


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## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

Like any supplement you'll get both sides responding. Personally since I don't eat fish every week I take them but as with everything quality can be an issue.
Personally I think having more oil in my system helps (brain function, joints heart health)and there is some evidence it can help with cholesterol levels

Krill oil and oils with mixes of fish (not only salmon but anchovy, sardines)& borage or flaxseed oil are good extra ingredients.

Dose is important many don;y have enough and you may get some fishy burps so take it before a meal.

Here is a link to the Great Oz but loads more all over the web

Daily Dose: Omega-3 | The Dr. Oz Show


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## wmodavis (Jun 21, 2007)

Kshawn said:


> What's the general consensus about fish oil supplements? Good, bad, gimmick? I did a quick search but couldn't find any posts on it.


Not sure about consensus and furthermore I sincerely hope we don't expect science to be based on consensus else we'd still believe in the flat earth consensus (Was there ever a scientific consensus that the world is flat and the center of the solar system? - Yahoo! Answers).

That being said, I do take fish oil based on the scientific evidence and I do take a lot to help mitigate my heart disease. Furthermore I believe everyone stands to benefit from it in whatever form though I do have my opinion on that too. (I also mountain bike for the same reason).

If you do want to look at and/or listen to some of that evidence for FO look through some of this: Credible Evidence: fish oil. Some convincing evidence that it is NOT gimmickry rather a well established supplement even by the medical community.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Krill, borage, primrose, flexseed oil are my favorite.
Check Dr. Mercola, great info about supplements.
Www.mercola.com

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## wmodavis (Jun 21, 2007)

Yeah but Mercola makes money on what he pushes. Doesn't make it untrue but a bit suspicious. 

And all of those sources are low in the key EPA/DHA components in FO, both of which have significant health benefits.

I'll stick with my liquid FO for desired effect.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Well, he pushes what he believes is the best choice.
He also explains why he thinks which product is superior. 
When a new science comes around, he presents it and adjusts his offerings accordingly.

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## stevland (Nov 4, 2011)

Sounds like a salesman to me.

OP, personally, I look for the EPA/DHA as an anti-inflammatory. Maybe a conversation with a nutritionist on this and other supplements would be to your benefit?


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Of course he is a salesman. There is nothing wrong with that. But he is also a doctor with a vast knowledge in supplements and healthy lifestyle. He offers products he believes in and backs it up with science and research.
The website is very informative.
I do not get all my supplements from him, I usually buy them locally.
I have spent a lot of time researching and looking for the most beneficial supplements for my problem with inflammation and found his website a great source of information.
He has also sponsored a CA proposition to label GMO products with over a 1 million $, which was unfortunately defeated by huge Monsanto lobby, which is the greatest GMO producer.


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

I take it, seems like it makes my joints feel better. 

Fish oil twice a day along with Hammer Nutrition Tissue Rejuvinator makes me feel like I've got new knees.


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## Kshawn (Jul 22, 2012)

wmodavis said:


> Not sure about consensus and furthermore I sincerely hope we don't expect science to be based on consensus else we'd still believe in the flat earth consensus (Was there ever a scientific consensus that the world is flat and the center of the solar system? - Yahoo! Answers).


I think you know what I meant. 

Personally I do take it, but I didn't see the harm in asking what y'all think. I did in fact talk to a doctor about it, she was in support of it as well.


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## mcrn12 (Feb 1, 2013)

teleken said:


> Like any supplement you'll get both sides responding. Personally since I don't eat fish every week I take them but as with everything quality can be an issue.
> Personally I think having more oil in my system helps (brain function, joints heart health)and there is some evidence it can help with cholesterol levels
> 
> Krill oil and oils with mixes of fish (not only salmon but anchovy, sardines)& borage or flaxseed oil are good extra ingredients.
> ...


Nordic naturals make a very good fish oil. Only one that I have ever taken that I could feel a difference within 2 weeks of taking it. If you burp fish oils.....its rancid.


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

mcrn12 said:


> Nordic naturals make a very good fish oil. Only one that I have ever taken that I could feel a difference within 2 weeks of taking it. If you burp fish oils.....its rancid.


Meant to say the same thing. My local food co-op has Nordic Naturals on sale every now and again and I stock up on the big containers when the sale hits. If you email Nordic Naturals directly they'll normally hook you up with some manufacturer's coupons as well. They'll also give you free samples to try . . .


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## wmodavis (Jun 21, 2007)

Kshawn said:


> What's the general consensus about fish oil supplements? Good, bad, gimmick? I did a quick search but couldn't find any posts on it.


Here is another good article on FO. An excellent read!

Fish Oil - Probably the Best Nutritional Supplement in the World


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Omega 3 is good. But it contains different amounts of pcbs, ddt, heavy metals, dioxins. Get a good one.

translate this with google or something to see the spread.

Miljögifter, dioxiner och pcb i fiskolja


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## wmodavis (Jun 21, 2007)

Fish Oil Triglycerides vs. Ethyl Esters: A comparative review of absorption, stability and safety concerns.

Credible Evidence: Fish Oil Triglycerides vs. Ethyl Esters: A comparative review of absorption, stability and safety concerns


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Fish oil is anti alzheimers, anti parkinsons, anti everything. Fish oil is what at least half the brain consists of (or should I say SHOULD consist of). The more % omega3 vs the the other fats you have in your brain the smarter you get and the faster you think. The neurons signal faster and stronger. Kids that get much fish oil gets smarter.

Fish oil is what expanded our brains (especially our frontal lobes) from peanut sized to what we have today.

And on top of that there are positive effects too.

Or so I've heard....


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

I buy smoked salmon on a regular basis to snack on, but also take fish oil supplements, especially when I've been eating more meat than fish.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

PCRM | Fish Oil Does Not Improve Heart Health


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

An interesting read on joints, osteoporosis and nutrition's link:  Arthritis and Joint Pain &#124 T. Colin Campbell Foundation


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## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

I have proven to myself, that Salmon Oil pills are as good for my "post-ride backache" as is aspirin or anything else.

I have eliminated the placebo effect by tricking myself.


FWIW


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

richwolf said:


> PCRM | Fish Oil Does Not Improve Heart Health


And I can find a scientist who does not believe in global warming, too.


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## wmodavis (Jun 21, 2007)

This is not entirely on topic of just FO but comes from my cardiologist and has som good info on FO in addition to...
========================
Are statins and omega-3s incompatible?
Posted on June 18, 2013 by Dr. Davis 
French researcher, Dr. Michel de Lorgeril, has been in the forefront of thinking and research into nutritional issues, including the Mediterranean Diet, the French Paradox, and the role of fat intake in cardiovascular health. In a recent review entitled Recent findings on the health effects of omega-3 fatty acids and statins, and their interactions: do statins inhibit omega-3(Recent findings on the health effects of omega-3 fatty acids and statins, and their interactions: do statins inhibit omega-3?), he explores the question of whether statin drugs are, in effect, incompatible with omega-3 fatty acids.

Dr. Lorgeril makes several arguments: 
1) Earlier studies, such as GISSI-Prevenzione, demonstrated reduction in cardiovascular events with omega-3 fatty acid supplementation, consistent with the biological and physiological benefits observed in animals, experimental preparations, and epidemiologic observations in free-living populations.

2) More recent studies (and meta-analyses) examining the effects of omega-3 fatty acids have failed to demonstrate cardiovascular benefit showing, at most, non-significant trends towards benefit.

He points out that the more recent studies were conducted post-GISSI and after agencies like the American Heart Association's advised people to consume more fish, which prompted broad increases in omega-3 intake. The populations studied therefore had increased intake of omega-3 fatty acids at the start of the studies, verified by higher levels of omega-3 RBC levels in participants.

In addition, he raises the provocative idea that the benefits of omega-3 fatty acids appear to be confined to those not taking statin agents, as suggested, for instance, in the Alpha Omega Trial. He speculates that the potential for statins to ablate the benefits of omega-3s (and vice versa) might be based on several phenomena:

-Statins increase arachidonic acid content of cell membranes, a potentially inflammatory omega-6 fatty acid that competes with omega-3 fatty acids. (Insulin provocation and greater linoleic acid/omega-6 oils do likewise.)

-Statins induce impaired mitochondrial function, while omega-3s improve mitochondrial function. (Impaired mitochondrial function is evidenced, for instance, by reduced coenzyme Q10 levels, with partial relief from muscle weakness and discomfort by supplementing coenzyme Q10.)

-Statins commonly provoke muscle weakness and discomfort which can, in turn, lead to reduced levels of physical activity and increased resistance to insulin. (Thus the recently reported increases in diabetes with statin drug use.)

Are the physiologic effects of omega-3 fatty acids, present and necessary for health, at odds with the non-physiologic effects of statin drugs?

I fear we don't have sufficient data to come to firm conclusions yet, but my perception is that the case against statins is building. Yes, they have benefits in specific subsets of people (none in others), but the notion that everybody needs a statin drug is, I believe, not only dead wrong, but may have effects that are distinctly negative. And I believe that the arguments in favor of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation, EPA and DHA (and perhaps DPA), make better sense.

- See more at: Are statins and omega-3s incompatible? | Track Your Plaque Blog


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Just want to chime in wmodavis post.

a few years ago I was given some medication that is known to be very liver toxic and causes liver cancer, but is the only shizzle that works.

So every 2 weeks they sampled my blood to find out if I was dying from it or not, like 20 parameters measured.

And since i knew the sideffects I took 6g omega 3 every day and like 3-5g omega 6. omega 6 protects the liver. the first 2 months my liver parameters got a lot worse and so did everything else.
At the start everything was "normal" but 2 months in everything was "bad", everything.

but then somehow it rebounded for the remainder of the treatment, starting at month 3 as normal, finishing at extremely good, all parameter they measured became suspiciously good, and this is funny since i partied every weekend both friday and saturday. This had never ever happened before in the entire history of humankind. So saying the correct fatty acids for the situation is useless is BS. I know first hand they work extremely well. The body is a machine, with the correct fuel repair building blocks it will run and repair itself to an extremely high standard.

My very smart doctors could not believe this was happening, but it was, just as expected. I would have been happy finishing at baseline but it worked much better than expected actually. And thats how **** works in reality when people do their homework. Why take a chance right?


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## cactus1 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Taste*

Are there some fish oils on the market that don't taste . . . fishy?


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

They are some with lemon or orange flavor. The lemon ones taste good enough to me.

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## NslrPrtn (Jul 10, 2012)

> Are there some fish oils on the market that don't taste . . . fishy?


Yes and they are labeled as such.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

To reply to the OP, you don't have to take fish oil to gain the benefits from Omega Fatty Acids. There are non-fish-derived supplements to get DHA, EPA, etc. They are simply derived from algae, which is where the fish are getting it from in the first place. Another benefit to the algae-derived supplements is that they are harvested outside of an oceanic environment so you will not be consuming the heavy metals (mercury, etc.) that are bioaccumulated by fish in the ocean. Amerifit makes a good DHA/EPA supplement.

Amerifit Nutrition - Ovega-3 500 mg 60 softgels [Health and Beauty]:Amazon:Health & Personal Care


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Back on topic though, I usually eat a decent amount of flax seed and thought I was doing good only to recently find out it's not a great sole source of Omega Fatty Acids. Last week I started taking TheraTears for my eyes at the request of my eye doctor in prep for LASIK surgery next week. It seems to have a much better OFA profile with the EPA, DHA, and ALA that just Flax is missing. Once I don't have to take these anymore, I do want to find a good quality supplement to take and continue taking them.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Nubster said:


> Back on topic though, I usually eat a decent amount of flax seed and thought I was doing good only to recently find out it's not a great sole source of Omega Fatty Acids. Last week I started taking TheraTears for my eyes at the request of my eye doctor in prep for LASIK surgery next week. It seems to have a much better OFA profile with the EPA, DHA, and ALA that just Flax is missing. Once I don't have to take these anymore, I do want to find a good quality supplement to take and continue taking them.


Flax oil gives you mainly omega 3 fatty acids in the form of ALA. Your body then has to convert this into EPA and DHA, but the conversion varies between individuals and is generally low (especially to DHA). In addition to ALA, you need EPA and DHA. Don't stop taking flax. Instead, you could simply add that algae supplement that I linked to earlier that contains good quantities of EPA and DHA. If you had to choose between the two for any reason, definitely choose the EPA/DHA supplement.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Thanks. I'll check it out. I still take flax, I actually like the taste of it on salads and in my smoothies. I use whole seeds and grind them as I use them.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

steelhmr said:


> If you are interested in learning more about the modeling and how they perform under advanced statistical analysis,


I'm interested in learning more about fish oil and other omega 3/6 supplements. Maybe someone can start a thread about them. I'd hate to get off topic in this global warming thread.


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## knoob (Mar 17, 2010)

This should give you someplace to start. It review & tests for what is in it.ConsumerLab.com

Sorry link didn't work, but that is the site.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Nubster said:


> I'm interested in learning more about fish oil and other omega 3/6 supplements. Maybe someone can start a thread about them. I'd hate to get off topic in this global warming thread.


Well, if u want to get lots of O3 in EPA and DHA, then it's basically ocean food for you. That algae thing does sound kind of interesting, though.

You could also cut back on the O6, which most people don't have a shortage of, and this drops your O3 requirement a bit since it is the ratio that is important.


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## 247 (Apr 23, 2009)

*take ONLY Omega 3* (Not standard fish oil)---and take ONLY this brand (Nordic Naturals)--

the Ultimate Omega (with Vitamin D-3)----if there was only one vitamin/supplement I would take, it would be an Omega 3..

Fish oils have Omega 6--they cause inflammation..

In Europe they give Omega 3 instead of Pharmaceuticals (for everything from Heart Disease to Depression---don't ever need any Prozac..)

--*for any clown who tries to deny this, the healthiest people on the planet have the most Omega 3 in their diet!!!!*--See which areas of the planet people have these in their diet and see what Cancer, etc.. they NEVER get compared to others who standard America (conventional, processed, non-organic food)---


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

The amount of Omega 6 in fish oil supplements would be insignificant compared what you already get in your diet, and would not be an inflammation concern. 
And the people with with the highest omega 3 intake are healthy as you say, and they get the omega 3 from fish, not from purified omega 3.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Eating fish today isn't healthy. They are pretty much swimming ddt/pcbs/cadmium/lead/dioxins (and now also radioactive) accumulators.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

car bone said:


> Eating fish today isn't healthy. They are pretty much swimming ddt/pcbs/cadmium/lead/dioxins (and now also radioactive) accumulators.


If you want to eat fish, you could choose those lowest on the food chain, ie sardines, kipper, or fresh caught freshwater fish, such as trout, crappie, bass, etc.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

You should try and get your O3 from food sources. Taking the supplements is not a good idea unless your doctor suggests it. As mentioned above, the O6/O3 ratio is important. The average American diet is somewhere around 10-15:1. Ideal is closer to 1:1 So if you try to reduce the O6 in your diet, and then take O3 supplements you may be blowing the ratio out the other direction with no benefits. Some evidence suggests megadoses of O3 may inhibit your immune function, and many people report unpleasant and embarrassing bowel problems with fish oil supplements (i.e. leakage and diarrhea).


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

dave54 said:


> You should try and get your O3 from food sources. Taking the supplements is not a good idea unless your doctor suggests it. As mentioned above, the O6/O3 ratio is important. The average American diet is somewhere around 10-15:1. Ideal is closer to 1:1 So if you try to reduce the O6 in your diet, and then take O3 supplements you may be blowing the ratio out the other direction with no benefits. Some evidence suggests megadoses of O3 may inhibit your immune function, and many people report unpleasant and embarrassing bowel problems with fish oil supplements (i.e. leakage and diarrhea).


Unless you are taking super gigantic doses of O3, there is no way you are going to "blow the ratio out the other direction".
A diet considered healthy:
2000 kcal
25% fat = 56 grams of fat
92% unsaturated = 52 grams
10:1 typical ratio O6/O3 = 47g O6 : 5g O3

To get that ratio to 1:1 you would have to supplement with 21 gs of O3 which would be something like 60 1 g fish oil caps per day ( while cutting out that much O6).

As far as food sources, I see no problem with fish oil caps, since they have been shown to have less contaminants such as mercury and PCBs than fresh fish:

https://www.consumerlab.com/answers...with+mercury+and+PCBs/fish-oil_contamination/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/health/24real.html?_r=0

Fish oil and cod liver as safe and hea... [Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

The best omega 3 caps are moleculary (is that spelled correctly?) centrifuged to separe the good stuff from the toxins (different density of all things) . this is the exact same process used in all type of pharmaceutical indstry and can get very clean results.

I like omega 3 and sometime I take heroic doses, no just kidding but 6g a day isn't even close to overdoing it. A bottle a day thats overdoing it.

Every thing thats from nature, unpatentable and works will always have these contradictory research results. Every year there are studies suggesting mobile phones gives you cancer, and every year there are studies saying they don't. 

The truth with research studies today is that if you come to a conclusion that the ones that pay your salary don't like, then you get no funding ever again. Every thing is bought, bribed and paid for in this world. Objective unbiased research doesn't exist. Not any more.


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## crit_boy (Jul 31, 2007)

Could we maybe call the stuff by the right name? 

ω-3 or n-3. 

O3 is not a proper abbreviation for omega 3 fatty acids. O3 could be ozone. But, it is not omega 3. 

You don't call a stem a goose neck or pedals paddles?


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

crit_boy said:


> Could we maybe call the stuff by the right name?
> 
> ω-3 or n-3.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure we all knew what he meant

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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

crit_boy said:


> Could we maybe call the stuff by the right name?
> 
> ω-3 or n-3.
> 
> ...


You are right. 
Excuuuussse me!!! 

I don't have an omega key, but I wish I did!

I've seen a lot of people talking about peddles and breaks on this forum, and I wonder, is gooseneck ok, or did the Ahead set make that term obsolete? (Rhetorical, please don't answer!)


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## crit_boy (Jul 31, 2007)

> Pretty sure we all knew what he meant


I kenw smeonoe wulod cmomnet aubot porepr nmanig bcuaese we colud udnrsetnad waht tehy mnaet.

There is a reason for using proper terminology - ensuring others understand the ideas you are communicating.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

smilinsteve said:


> You are right.
> Excuuuussse me!!!
> 
> I don't have an omega key, but I wish I did!
> ...


And seats.


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## SlickWilly8019 (Sep 4, 2012)

I take a Krill oil pill once a day, it has hyaluronic acid in it which greatly decreases the pain from my arthritis in my neck. I take one of those vs the 6 fish oil pills I was taking when I was able to lift weights. Schiff makes it - joint care is how its marketed. Works well for me, YMMV.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

I'll continue to call it O3 out of spite.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

SlickWilly8019 said:


> I take a Krill oil pill once a day, it has hyaluronic acid in it which greatly decreases the pain from my arthritis in my neck. I take one of those vs the 6 fish oil pills I was taking when I was able to lift weights. Schiff makes it - joint care is how its marketed. Works well for me, YMMV.


I don't think there is hyaluronic acid in it, but it does reduce joint inflammation, and Krill oil definitely seems to be interesting stuff.

Here's a good research paper on it. 1.5 grams of Krill oil daily lowered LDL 35%, compared to 3 grams of fish oil daily which lowered LDL 4.5% 
To me that's a pretty exciting result.

One of the differences in Krill oil compared to fish oil is the Omega 3 (O3 ha ha) FA's are in a phospholipid form, and more bioavailable.

http://www.howardgroupinc.com/Portals/0/neptune/research/Article hyperlipidemia.pdf


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

you guys should look into resveratrol and curcumin


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

car bone said:


> you guys should look into resveratrol and curcumin


Yes, they are great, but we are talking omega 3, not antioxidants...
I personally take both. 
Curcumin for its anti inflammatory properties.


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## 247 (Apr 23, 2009)

car bone said:


> you guys should look into resveratrol and curcumin


I have been taking Country Life Ultimate Resveratrol and put organic turmeric on my chicken strips ( a HUGE amount) each week.. I look 20 years younger than I am (proff's and boss's have lost bets on how old I am....)


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Agree with most of the info and experience posted here, especially the curcumin

Check out designsforhealth.com, think this one was called Omega avail dha, but can't exactly remember what funky name they use. Good quality products


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## SlickWilly8019 (Sep 4, 2012)

I take 1 Krill oval in the morning, it has a joint supplement that helps with arthritis in my cervical region, and I am polishing off a bottle straight krill I got by mistake. Krill is more pure and less likely to have heavy metals in it like mercury.

I used to take Omega 3, 6 & 9 when i lifted, I was taking 6 1000mg Omega 3's per day, the 6 & 9 were whatever the dose was. After my injury I only use krill because I don't have access to the stuff that was sold at my gym.


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## fridrikh (Aug 20, 2010)

I've taken Cod liver oil since I was a about 1 years old (almost mandatory here in Iceland). I just wanted to give you one advice if you don't like the taste (which I hate), if you take the oil, and then have a sip of coffee afterwards the taste completely goes away, and it will even rid you of the terrible burps afterwards


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

fridrikh raises an interesting issue about cod liver oil. Cod liver oil is not "fish" oil and is not recommended as an omega fatty acid supplement or for heart health. It is a concentrated source of fat soluble vitamins and in an environment with limited sunlight (half the time), it probably acts as a Vit D supplement, although it was always said to be for immune support when I was a kid.

I take fish oil and I do believe there is convincing evidence it can help with lipid balance (more by increasing HDL than lowering LDL), reducing joint pain and as an anti-depressant. However, when you start saying a refined supplement is a safer alternative to seafood, then I think you are really missing the point. Fish, krill and calamari (squid) oils contain no iodine, no protein and are not a food. The real deal is still an essential part of our diet and cannot be supplemented.

Reliance on minimalism in nutrition is really the realm of research and appeals to nutritionists who frankly have done more to hurt the population than help it. The "science" of nutritionism has led to some serious lies. For example - eating only lean meat (muscle only) makes no sense and restricting saturated (natural) fats is already being observed to and will be confirmed as contributing to inflammatory artery disease and Alzheimers. Goodness knows what percentage of kids behavioural and educational issues stem from this sort of restrictive and supplementary nutritional advice. Eat food not pills and labels!

Back to fish oil - Nordic Health and Bio-Ceuticals were the only 2 of about 20 fish oil supplements tested independently in Qld that actually contained the doses of EPA and DHA stated on the label. Mercury etc should not be part of these medications (which they are, not just supplements).


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Randolph456 said:


> It also plays an important role in weight loss, thus it improves the fitness level.


It is fish that is important to weight loss and fitness, not fish oil. Fish muscle protein, plus calcium from bones, all fish fats and connective tissue proteins, roe and iodine help fitness and muscle quality, not EPA and DHA. Minimalism in nutrition is not wise.

Otherwise what you said is basically correct, helping normalise lipid ratios with fish oil may reduce plaque accumulation and may lead to plaque regression. It also may not and the simple fact is that significant arterial plaque burden responds best to statins. Fish oil has many benefits and few risks.


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