# Circus Monkey hubs



## surf418 (Jan 23, 2006)

What is your opinion on Circus Monkey's? What's the weight for rear hub? They quoted me $90 for rear hub only, seems pretty cheap but what about quality?


----------



## trebor_strebor (Feb 7, 2008)

i took a chance on them. been running them since August of '10. 

initial perception:
* light - I don't recall if i did actually weigh them or not. but they aren't far off the claimed weight - if at all.
* smooth
* machine work is very "blingy"
* normal engagement of the freehub. 3 pawl design - compare to mid level shimano
* free hub pawls very dry out of the box ( i lubed them up after about 100 miles)
* easy to service and easy to rebuild (NBK sealed bearings from factory and the free hub body can be removed w/out tools and w/ cassette still on)

after about 1200 miles i heard a noise i didn't like from the rear hub. i took them apart and found some dents in the machined surface of the freehub body between each pawl. these dents match the ratchet teeth of the hub shell.

I don't yet know how the freehub moved in relation to hub shell to cause this. maybe the axle material is too soft and allowed the movement? Maybe a bearing is starting to fail and allowed "slop"? maybe the axel is out of spec and the tolerance inside the bearing is not tight enough? i don't yet know.

what to do? well, i email the manufacturer in Taiwan and after sending some pictures they advised me the original seller (ebay purchase) will help me. I emailed the seller and they are indeed sending me a replacement. Translation was a little off - so I don't yet know what I'll get (free hub, complete hub, or complete hub set).

all my emails were answered quickly and there was no hesitation to assist.

long term durability is still an unknown.

i do ride hard. not that i'm abusive to my gear, but i don't baby it either. i weigh in around 175 lbs and have the hubs laced up to 29er's on a steel hardtail.

rob


----------



## surf418 (Jan 23, 2006)

Good review:thumbsup: 

I think i'll give the rear hub a try (front is lefty)..... They claim 277gr wich is pretty light and price is not bad either ($90 shipped).

Not sure there is something as good as this for this price...

Thanks


----------



## Sablotny (Apr 2, 2004)

*Finger hovering over the BUY button*

Wish there were some more reviews out there, but I just ordered my rims so there's no turning back!

These look very similar to the WTB/American Classic hubs... what are the chances they're all close cousins?


----------



## sachase (Jan 1, 2005)

thinking about getting a rear hub, any more info on these?


----------



## Sablotny (Apr 2, 2004)

*Just got mine in*

after an apology for a delay during the Chinese New Year break. They are very light indeed - I don't have an accurate scale for low weights, but I'd say they're near advertised weight. Nice finish - good anodizing, no rough spots or tool marks. No instructions, just a business card that says "NO NOT USE FOR OFF ROAD RIDING OR BMX! FOR GENERAL ROAD RIDING ONLY!" Hah, sad to see that included with a pair of MTB hubs, but I think even Trek and Specialized have legalize like that in their manuals.

No QR skewers included. Guess it said that in the auction, but I didn't see it.

I was trying to figure out how to take apart the rear hub and - Shazam! It just pulls apart. The only thing holding this puppy together is the shear force of the rubber O-ring on the black, non-drive axel cap... and your QR skewer.

These are so light I'm thinking about using them with slick tires for Urban Assault action, before taking them into the rocks. Just... to make sure.


----------



## trebor_strebor (Feb 7, 2008)

good luck to you. 

in the end, I did receive a new freehub body in the mail. the warranty was honored.

but, I instead laced the rim to a Hope Pro II. for my upcoming adventure, it gives me more piece of mind.

I have a red CM rear with brand new freehub body.... takers??


----------



## rideitall (Dec 15, 2005)

I ordered and received two sets of these hubs. They are indeed light and look quite nice. They have a nice clicking sound that is not as loud as a Hope, but similar. Per my crappy scale they are slightly more than the 277g rear, and 115g front. I can't remember the individual weights but the total per my scale was around 420g, so not too bad for accuracy. 

I won't be using these for myself but am building up a couple of sets of light 24" wheels for my two boys. These will be built on Alex ACE20 24" rims (approx 385g) which according to another MTBR member who did the same for his kids bike, built up to a very respectable 1450r - 1500g range. 

My oldest should be able to use the 24" wheels this spring, my yougest might still be on his 20" wheeled bike this year. So I am hoping these hubs will take some abuse for the little ones and last a few years. Will post back some pictures and feedback once all is built up and ready to go.


----------



## sachase (Jan 1, 2005)

I'll take it off your hands, PM sent.



trebor_strebor said:


> good luck to you.
> 
> in the end, I did receive a new freehub body in the mail. the warranty was honored.
> 
> ...


----------



## b-unit (Dec 25, 2010)

Any newer reviews of these?


----------



## Sablotny (Apr 2, 2004)

Got my hubs, spent time with calipers going over the spoke length calculator making notes, ordered my spokes and they came out too long. D'oh! So... no review from me yet.


----------



## MaLoL1 (Jan 16, 2004)

replace incuded bearings with stainless bearings with blue seals, and they will work properly on wet conditions or when cleaning the bike.


----------



## smallbrother (May 4, 2011)

Hi, what some other long-term experience? I'm going to order this rear hub and I don't want to make a mistake. Thanks


----------



## sachase (Jan 1, 2005)

Don't.


----------



## 88 rex (Aug 2, 2007)

sachase said:


> Don't.


 Explain.


----------



## sachase (Jan 1, 2005)

they're just too fragile. They work great until they get wet, then they are toast.


----------



## sarafurry (Oct 14, 2011)

no i dont


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Funny you say that... my brother just had a mechanic friend swear by these and had a new set of wheels built up for his TItus Carbon Racer-X. These things are pretty load and he seems to really like them, only had them for a few weeks so not sure about the durability. Got them REAL wet this weekend when riding the Flume, however my brother is only 150ish# and does not really abuse his bike (more of a XC racer type).


----------



## Sablotny (Apr 2, 2004)

*Built a set up*

these are going on a forthcoming Pivot Mach 4, so I haven't ridden them yet. Flyweight Circus Monkey hubs, 350g Sun rims and alloy nips; sensible 32 hole, 3X 14/15 spokes all round. My completely unreliable scale says 1,475g. Happy with that for the low cost of admission. Next - to see how long they hold up.


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Here's the hub dimensions if anyone needs them for a build...


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

My brother is still riding them and happy with them. I was thinking of taking a foray into build a rear wheel for the winter (something I can just throw a super knobby wet weather tire on) or use them as commuter rims. Plans are that next year (2013) I will start looking at a FS as the area immediately around my house is fine for a hardtail but venturing up into Tahoe I can see it warranting a FS. Figure I will do a frame up build again and might as well start with a new set of wheels that I built. But the problem is that most FS are starting to come with the thru-axle style rears which causes and issue here.


----------



## Widget (Sep 14, 2008)

I've put a ton of miles on a road set, and so far so good!


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

I just ordered a set that I'll lace up to some 50mm carbon tubulars for a SSCX disc build I'm doing. Will report back in the longterm.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I have a set of the newer "HDW2" coming. Looks like they changed flange diameters slightly and the freehub has 6 pawls vs. the older 3. Going to lace them to the light-bicycle AM carbon rims.
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices


----------



## Sablotny (Apr 2, 2004)

Cool, maybe I'll nab a pair of those for a 29er. Just finished my taxes - the good news from that is I can order my Mach 4 now - and ride these wheels!


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

I have a set coming for some road race wheels. Too bad they are lost in the mail. 2 weeks they have been in the states coming from Bethpage NY


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

ktm520 said:


> I have a set of the newer "HDW2" coming. Looks like they changed flange diameters slightly and the freehub has 6 pawls vs. the older 3. Going to lace them to the light-bicycle AM carbon rims.
> eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices


Those HDW2 hubs now look like they use the Rotaz / A2Z / Chin Haur freehub engagement mechanism (or something similar). When you get them, pull the freehub off and post up some pictures of the pawls etc.


----------



## fabrice (Mar 27, 2006)

What are the flange diameters of the new HDW2 ?
(The front one seems unchanged)


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I got some drawings from the ebay seller but the front was for a 20mm thru and I'm not confident that the rear is correct. My hubs will be here later this week and I will measure. Tracking number said they were in Chicago on 2/2, but there hasn't been an update since.


----------



## fabrice (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi, thanks, that would be great if you could put here your measurements, once done


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

ktm520 said:


> I got some drawings from the ebay seller but the front was for a 20mm thru and I'm not confident that the rear is correct. My hubs will be here later this week and I will measure. Tracking number said they were in Chicago on 2/2, but there hasn't been an update since.


I posted the dimensions for the HDW2 in post 20 on page 1... http://forums.mtbr.com/8849110-post20.html


----------



## fabrice (Mar 27, 2006)

these are the HDW, not the HDW2.
For the rear HDW2, the flange at the drive side is larger than disc side. For the HDW, it's the opposite.


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

fabrice said:


> these are the HDW, not the HDW2.
> For the rear HDW2, the flange at the drive side is larger than disc side. For the HDW, it's the opposite.


Well, isht... I guess I better pull my freehub apart and see what's inside, because I ordered the HDW2 and it matches the drawing. I ordered from Ebike.ltd on Ebay. He sells a ton of those things and has good feedback... Maybe he made a mistake.

Now that I look at it, the current listings don't match that drawing at all... Bummer...


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Here are the drawings ebike.ltd sent me for the HDW2. The front hub appears to be the same. I was hoping I could modify the front axle for a 9mm thru, but it doesn't look like that will be possible with the small bearing id. Rear should easily convert to 10mm thru by boring out the end caps. Hubs should be here today or tomorrow. Will post pics of the freehub when I get a chance and verify flange dimensions.


----------



## fabrice (Mar 27, 2006)

mattsavage said:


> Well, isht... I guess I better pull my freehub apart and see what's inside, because I ordered the HDW2 and it matches the drawing. I ordered from Ebike.ltd on Ebay. He sells a ton of those things and has good feedback... Maybe he made a mistake.
> 
> Now that I look at it, the current listings don't match that drawing at all... Bummer...


I've bought 4 pairs of HDW's so far, and they all came form that seller. I also bought some other items from him. I just can confirm he deserves his good feedbacks 
Drop him a line, maybe with a picture... I'm sure he can do something.



ktm520 said:


> Here are the drawings ebike.ltd sent me for the HDW2. The front hub appears to be the same. I was hoping I could modify the front axle for a 9mm thru, but it doesn't look like that will be possible with the small bearing id. Rear should easily convert to 10mm thru by boring out the end caps. Hubs should be here today or tomorrow. Will post pics of the freehub when I get a chance and verify flange dimensions.


Thanks for the drawings 
According to the one of the rear hub, both flanges have equal diameters ?
On the photos, I had the impression the drive side was larger. You'll see when you'll measure...


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I'm really happy with these hubs. Only 3 of 6 paws are engaged simultaneously and the ratchet has 27t, equals 54 points of engagement. Bearings are cheap but they can be replaced for pennies. Dust seals on hub aren't going to stop much. Definitely going to keep an eye on the plastic ratchet gear.

_**EDIT* The ratchet gear is actually steel not plastic *EDIT**
_ 
Rear can be converted to 10mm thru by boring out the end caps. The front bearing id is only 10mm, so I'm not sure yet if it can modified without turning up some new end caps. I would really like to get a 9mm axle through it.

The front hub drawing is accurate. The rear is not.
left dia 56.5
right dia 60.0
left offset 35.5
right offset 21.0

Front hub 117g
Rear hub 241g


----------



## fabrice (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks for that info !
Indeed your measurements confirm that left dia is smaller that right dia.
I guess the weight of the rear hub is 241g, otherwise it would be a winner over the Tune Dezibel 

I never had an A2Z/Rotaz/... in my hands, but it looks similar for the freewheel mecanism, does it ?
No worries about the plastic teeth ? Hopefuly that ring is at the freewheel body side... Is it replaceable alone ? There is maybe a steel alternative...


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Looks like its made by Chin Haur / Rotaz. A2Z is slightly different but all with this design suffer from the problem of the pawls flogging out the hub shell which you can't replace. They do wear the freehub teeth which you can replace, but there's no fixing the play that develops where the pawls sit in the hub shell. I have the A2Z version and it showed signs of flogging out after about 5000km, but has held in there for another 2500km, but it has 5 pawls that engage simultaneously so the load is distributed a bit more.

I also found the rear axle to be a bit flexy on bigger drops allowing the freehub teeth to score the hub shell near the pawls.



If you're a pedal masher/strong guy/ride often etc. I'd go for the other Monkey Hub design which seems stronger (although heavier).

Are you sure the rear weighs 141g? Perhaps 241g?


----------



## fabrice (Mar 27, 2006)

So, the HDW2 may be OK for a girls, not pushing very hard and riding maybe 1500km/year... ??
(that's one of the future builds I'll have to do, and I had those Circus Monkey hubs in mind for this)

The "2-step" pawls of the HDW2 are a more clever design (theoretically !) than the A2Z : when coasting, that's only the first tooth (rounded) of the pawl that touches the plastic teethring, without beeing too agressive. And when pedaling, it's the second tooth (more sharp) that transmits the torque.
I've already seen this kind of design somewhere...



TigWorld said:


> I also found the rear axle to be a bit flexy on bigger drops allowing the freehub teeth to score the hub shell near the pawls.


That's something I've also seen with a "standard" Circus Monkey (HDW) rear hub, with a "big" guy (85kg), although on a full suspension bike.
Not as severe as on your picture, but still visible.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Tig, thanks for the info. In theory, the two tooth pawls should help keep it from walking on the ring gear. I like the design of the A2Z front hub a lot better than the CM. Bigger bearings and plenty of room for bigger axles. Do you know if the front Rotaz is the same design?

The seals on the bearings actually say "Chin Haur" on them along with the p/n.


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

ktm520 said:


> ... Do you know if the front Rotaz is the same design?...


I'm not sure. The Rotaz seems to have flanges the same size whereas the A2Z has the different sized flanges but the hubshell seems the same OD so maybe it uses the same bearings. The A2Z can run a 15mm axle as the stock bearing ID is 15mm but you need to machine up spacers for either side and these will not be held in when you remove the thru-axle which is a little painful for wheel changes trailside.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Wow. This is great info. 

54 points of engagement? That is hawt!! 

I see now they have a front Lefty hub, which is great because the cheap supply of C'Dale SI hubs has dried up. 

I only wish they came in silver. 

I'm running cheapo swap meet Real hubs right now, but I suspect they are not long for this world. I was thinking of saving up for DT Swiss or King hubs, but that is major $$$ that i don't have, and am not likely to have in the near future. 

I'm thinking I can rawk a pretty fricking low rent but blingtastic wheelset with these hubs, the cheap carbon 30mm wide rims, DT double butted spokes and brass nipples for a pretty dang bulletproof wheelset that comes in XC racerboy light and still be in around $450 for the whole build if I lace them myself. I don't tend to destroy rims, but I would like a bigger footprint under my 29er without having to resort to heavy hoops.


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

pimpbot said:


> I'm thinking I can rawk a pretty fricking low rent but blingtastic wheelset with these hubs, the cheap carbon 30mm wide rims,


Which carbon rims are these you speak of...?


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

mattsavage said:


> Which carbon rims are these you speak of...?


http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/cheap-chinese-carbon-rims-673410.html

I laced the AM version to the Circus Monkey HDW2's using Laser spokes, 32/3x. Only have one 2hr ride on them so far. I pulled the free hub and all looks well, but only time will tell. The freehub makes a higher frequency noise compared to a Hope, but not near as loud. It's not whisper quiet like a shimano hub though. The trails I rode weren't too technical, so I don't have a good feeling for engagement yet. I'm not a big guy (170lb) and have never been hard on hubs, so I don't anticipate any issues.

The rear hub will convert to a 10mm thru axle by simply boring out the end caps. The front will be a little tricky to convert to a 9mm thru. The end caps will be really hard to hold in a lathe and bore out but its possible. IMO, the best solution is to swap the bearings for a 9mm id bearing and machine new end spacers.


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

ktm520 said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/cheap-chinese-carbon-rims-673410.html
> 
> I laced the AM version to the Circus Monkey HDW2's using Laser spokes, 32/3x. Only have one 2hr ride on them so far. I pulled the free hub and all looks well, but only time will tell. The freehub makes a higher frequency noise compared to a Hope, but not near as loud. It's not whisper quiet like a shimano hub though. The trails I rode weren't too technical, so I don't have a good feeling for engagement yet. I'm not a big guy (170lb) and have never been hard on hubs, so I don't anticipate any issues.
> 
> The rear hub will convert to a 10mm thru axle by simply boring out the end caps. The front will be a little tricky to convert to a 9mm thru. The end caps will be really hard to hold in a lathe and bore out but its possible. IMO, the best solution is to swap the bearings for a 9mm id bearing and machine new end spacers.


Oh, ok, I was just talking to the light-bicycle people yesterday. They didn't mention 30mm wide rims, but she did tell me about the 24mm wide, 25mm deep tubeless ready model they're coming out with.


----------



## jjmtb1 (Jul 15, 2008)

*450?*



pimpbot said:


> Wow. This is great info.
> 
> 54 points of engagement? That is hawt!!
> 
> ...


How are you going to build these for 450? The rims shipped are 350 and the hubs at 150put you around 500. Thats not including DT db's and nips. I want to do the same thing but cant get lower than about 550.


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

jjmtb1 said:


> How are you going to build these for 450? The rims shipped are 350 and the hubs at 150put you around 500. Thats not including DT db's and nips. I want to do the same thing but cant get lower than about 550.


Those rims are only 155 a piece... But yeah, you're right at 500 bucks or so even with a hookup on spokes.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Well, okay, I can't add*



jjmtb1 said:


> How are you going to build these for 450? The rims shipped are 350 and the hubs at 150put you around 500. Thats not including DT db's and nips. I want to do the same thing but cant get lower than about 550.


but I can recycle some of the spokes from my other wheels. I haven't done the math, but they always end up being 291mm or 293m with all of my wheels. I have a huge bag of new nipples already. Awesome swap meet find for $5. Lifetime supply!

The Circus Monkey ebay guy told me he'd do $139 landed for a HDW2 rear hub and Lefty front hub. I thought the going rate on the carbon hoops was like $150 landed each. It will probably be $100 by the time I get around to doing something about it.

Dang, now that I think about it, I am going to need to build a Lefty front wheel pretty soon.... :idea:

Man.... too bad they don't have the Lefty hub in silver!! They have Black, Red, Green (green?) and white. Why green and no silver? :madman: Green looks pretty sweet, but it doesn't go with any of my bikes. My bikes are either silver trimmed or blue trimmed.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Short term update:

I've got 10hrs on the HDW2 hub now. It has been working well. I am having a small issue with the free hub "banging" on engagement occasionally. The first couple of rides it did it ~5 times. I cleaned out all of the stock tacky grease and relubed with a very light film of sythetic grease. Since doing so, it has only made the noise once or less per ride. It only seems to do this when there is just the slightest pause of torque, as in pedaling along under light load, barely ease off the torque and right back on it. The freehub nevers ratchets prior to the noise. I thought it may be a drivetrain noise my geared bike, but I put the wheels on my ss and the noise followed the hub.

My theory is that more spring preload on the paws will fix the issue. I am currently looking for stiffer springs and have a few leads. I'm also looking at making springs similar to the Hope design from spring steel. The stock springs are really light.

Good news, I was mistaken about the ring gear being made from plastic. I just had the hub apart and the wear markings on the gear is conistent with steel. Grabbed a magnet and it stuck. These should be solid hubs if I can get the engagement issue solved.


----------



## Alendos (Mar 19, 2012)

There is a disassemble video on Youtube.

Yes, inner ring is made of steel.


----------



## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

good info here. I'm going to order a set soon to build a racing wheelset.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> Short term update:
> 
> I've got 10hrs on the HDW2 hub now. It has been working well. I am having a small issue with the free hub "banging" on engagement occasionally. The first couple of rides it did it ~5 times. I cleaned out all of the stock tacky grease and relubed with a very light film of sythetic grease. Since doing so, it has only made the noise once or less per ride. It only seems to do this when there is just the slightest pause of torque, as in pedaling along under light load, barely ease off the torque and right back on it. The freehub nevers ratchets prior to the noise. I thought it may be a drivetrain noise my geared bike, but I put the wheels on my ss and the noise followed the hub.
> 
> ...


Put another 6hr on the CM hub since my last update. The noise I previously spoke off has all but disappeared. I never was able to determine for sure if it was the hub or not. I have also switched to using a light application of lube made from grease that I thinned with gear lube (approx 1 part grease:5 parts gear lube). I tried straight gear lube, but it quickly puked it out of the seal.

As someone previously noted, the freehub seal doesn't do much for blocking water. Every time I wash the bike, I pull the freehub and there is water inside. I let it air dry, lube the ring gear, and put it back together. Not a huge deal, but kind of a pain. The bearing in the freehub next to the ring gear is already slightly pitted.


----------



## bikin_pat (Mar 7, 2012)

Can someone let me know if these front hub measurements are correct:

FRONT HUB HDW2
left dia 38
right dia 58
left offset 37.5
right offset 24


----------



## fabrice (Mar 27, 2006)

that corresponds to my measurements of the HDW. Accroding to the pictures, the HDW2 front hub is the same as the HDW.
My measurements :
Left Flange dia : 57.5
Left Flange distance: 23.0
Right Flange dia : 37.5
Right Flange distance : 36.0


----------



## bikin_pat (Mar 7, 2012)

delete


----------



## Cianzepol (Mar 4, 2012)

Any more inputs/ updates on cm hubs? Planning to buy one.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

My rear hub is still making the loud pop under engagement every now and then. If I dont keep the paws clean and freshly lubed, it seems to be worst. I would still like to find some stronger springs.


----------



## Sablotny (Apr 2, 2004)

*Finally riding mine*

Only 3 rides to date, we'll see how they hold up. If, as one poster reported, they "only" last for 3,500 miles I'll be very happy - knock on wood


----------



## fabrice (Mar 27, 2006)

HDW or HDW2 ?


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

*Final Update*

In a nutshell, this hub is junk. Far to many problems in its fairly short 30hr life span to be a reliable option. Ring gear has made contact with the hub shell (see first pic). Two teeth on the ring gear are damaged (see second and third pic). It is still making the loud "pop" under engagement randomly and needs constant relube jobs to keep this at a minimum. The freehub seal is absolutely useless. I have had to clean the freehub anytime it gets wet. The freehub shell bearings only lasted 15hrs before they started making noise under torque. Spent 25$ to replace them. Hub shell bearings are on there way out, which will be another 25$ to replace. The outer bearing dust shields are junk. The brake side axle end cap is damaged and needs replacement. And . . . the front hub bearings/seals are also crap.

I figure that I wasted 100$ on this rear hub plus another 25$ for the bearings. YMMV, but I'm done with this hub as soon as I figure out what I'm going to replace it with. I knew it was a gamble going into this purchase, but I never thought it would turn out this bad.


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Sorry to hear about the hub crapping out but I think all of those hubs with that common design are less than optimal. The axle is too flexy - allowing for the contact that you've experienced and the pawls in the hubshell is a bad idea.

The older type of Monkey Hub looks like a Novatec 712 copy. The Novatec 712 rear hubs are much more reliable. A possible light alternative is the bikehubstore M252. Don't get the Rotaz/Chin Haur/A2Z etc ones.

But, there are a number of people who continue to post about how "bullet-proof" these type of hub desings are. I can only assume they don't ride much and their wheels never leave the ground. I've given up warning people.


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

surf418 said:


> What is your opinion on Circus Monkey's? What's the weight for rear hub? They quoted me $90 for rear hub only, seems pretty cheap but what about quality?


Buy unknown ****, pay twice.
Buy good, pay once.

Stay with the proven brands if you try to go above shimanos engagement, like true precision, hadley, white industries (which is low poe just as phil wood), chris king. The rest is most likely taiwan **** and any shimano will outlive them. Easily. By several years most likely. I have the slx latest gen now and they kick ass. And they were cheap too. I can't believe they are that good for lunch money. I also have highend Ringlé and TP at hand but there is no need for it..


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Awesome, now either the end cap or the axle is bent in the front hub. Kept having to adjust my front brake caliper every time I would remove the wheel. Had me scratching my head for a few days. Put a reference mark on the end cap so I put it back in the same place every time, problem solved.


----------



## Sablotny (Apr 2, 2004)

*Weird*

I just went over 1K off road miles, still going strong. Took the rear hub apart a coupla weeks ago to see if it looked like above ^^ but so far (knock on wood) so good.


----------



## bosbik (Aug 29, 2011)

anyone tried the HDH versions?


----------



## Alendos (Mar 19, 2012)

more interesting there is HDW3-R available claimed weight 226 gr.. very interesting..


----------



## schuster_md (May 18, 2007)

Can somebody confirm that the original HDW-R hub has an engagement system with 3 pawls in the freehub? I want to make sure that it is the 2nd generation HDW2-R hub the one that comes with the awful 6 pawls design (like the version reviewed by ktm520).
I checked some pictures of the 3rd generation HDW3-R hub and they went back to the 3 freehub pawls. It's hard to say from the picture but it seems that the new pawls come with a multiple teeth system to increase the POE with only 3 pawls.


----------



## em2 (Dec 3, 2010)

the "new" freehub ratchet is not all that new ! 
it's been around to some hubs for 3 year or more , i have the same ratchet on my road bike wheel , it is very fast with 51 steps and 3 pawls (3 teeth each) with flat spring each. 
DO NOT USE GREASE , best way to keep it run is to use engine oil


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

From all this info it looks like the HDW & HDW3 are a better choice over the HDW2. But dang. The HDW2 set is 42grams less.. That sounds nice but not worth the headaches. So any input on best to worse on these 3 hubs?


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Anyone seen the HDW3-R for sale anywhere?


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

I have not. Jst seen the CM web site. But think of asking a seller to order a few items I like from the site. Make a good package deal for some RESEARCH..


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

Sablotny said:


> I just went over 1K off road miles, still going strong. Took the rear hub apart a coupla weeks ago to see if it looked like above ^^ but so far (knock on wood) so good.


So are the hubs still doing good> whats the amount or ride on them now?


----------



## fabrice (Mar 27, 2006)

One year ago, I built a pair of road 50mm carbon tubulars for a friend, with Circus Monkey hubs. After 3000km, he complains only about the bearings of the front hub that are becoming slack. The rear hub is fine.
The hubs are the first generation (3 pawls in the freewheel).


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

1yr old & good ok with 3000km (1864miles). That is good. The 3gens are hard to find but seem to be a lot like the first gen. I been to the site a few times & was going ot ask them where to get the 3 gen & looked at maybe getting a few other of there items.


----------



## Sablotny (Apr 2, 2004)

I'm around 1,300 miles on mine. Starting to get scoring inside the freehub body as KTM shows above. No broken teeth... yet... but I am starting to think these are disposal hubs.


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

If your lookn at 1300 & one other rider got 1800. These should wrk good for my build. I do not race. ever get air. I average 60 to 90 miles a mnth. Then miss out a few mnths do to bad weather. A set should get me 30 to 36mnths. Hmmmm. Maybe I will try to look more into the 3rd gen hub. How to get them. Maybe get a few hundred more miles


----------



## fabrice (Mar 27, 2006)

Here are they : CIRCUS MONKEY MTB HUB SET--HDW3 | eBay
From the picture, they look more machined than generation 1 (that I own). They weight is impressive for the money ! From experience, quoted weights by Circus Monkey are rather accurate...
Nice choice of colours and drillings


----------



## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

2012 Circus Monkey Lightweight MTB Hubs 32H (HDW3) | Facebook


----------



## 88 rex (Aug 2, 2007)

Anyone manage to replace all the rear bearings? Mine is toast after an extremely muddy CX race.


----------



## Bezerk (Nov 28, 2009)

My HDW2 set have been on my disc commuter for nearly a year now and the freehub bearing has just gone after 9000+km. Not bad I guess, don't fancy my chances of a warranty though?...
This bearing...


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

fabrice said:


> Here are they : CIRCUS MONKEY MTB HUB SET--HDW3 | eBay
> From the picture, they look more machined than generation 1 (that I own). They weight is impressive for the money ! From experience, quoted weights by Circus Monkey are rather accurate...
> Nice choice of colours and drillings


I see why I could not find them. That is not the US ebay. I never try looking in other countries. I need to more often.


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

So now I am looking for spoke length info. I know when build DT Swiss on to my Crest 29er rims the spokes need to be 292 to 294 spoke length. But then American Classics on the Crest 29er rim takes 280 to 282 spoke length. I been lookig for info to match so I can find the length to buy. After a week of trying I decided to come back& ask if any one here knows there spoke length & is anyone running Arch or Crest rims with CM hubs


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

WerxRacing said:


> So now I am looking for spoke length info. I know when build DT Swiss on to my Crest 29er rims the spokes need to be 292 to 294 spoke length. But then American Classics on the Crest 29er rim takes 280 to 282 spoke length. I been lookig for info to match so I can find the length to buy. After a week of trying I decided to come back& ask if any one here knows there spoke length & is anyone running Arch or Crest rims with CM hubs


The dimensions of the new rear hub is in a photo on their facebook page, Notubes posts their ERD's on their website, there are several spoke calculators on the internets...

You can also contact them via their website if you need to know specifics... CIRCUS MONKEY


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

Yea , I am on both there FB pages & go to the site often. All the info looks like 2.5 on end by cassette & 2.25 on other end. But wanted to be sure. It all looks confusing...LOL

FB1) https://www.facebook.com/CircusMonkeyPh/photos_stream

FB2) https://www.facebook.com/circusbike?ref=ts&fref=ts


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

WerxRacing said:


> Yea , I am on both there FB pages & go to the site often. All the info looks like 2.5 on end by cassette & 2.25 on other end. But wanted to be sure. It all looks confusing...LOL
> 
> FB1) https://www.facebook.com/CircusMonkeyPh/photos_stream
> 
> FB2) https://www.facebook.com/circusbike?ref=ts&fref=ts


On FB2 pic gallery - black, disc, CM hubs with carbon centers - never seen these before, does anyone have info on these.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

TigWorld said:


> But, there are a number of people who continue to post about how "bullet-proof" these type of hub desings are. I can only assume they don't ride much and their wheels never leave the ground.


 That would be somebody like my daughter; built her 24" wheels. Great choice for her. Light, works great.

Would I consider it for myself, mashing a long travel bike? No. I think that is quite obvious.


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

If people are interested in the HDW3-carbon in the US. 199.oo & 20.oo to get them to you.
Im talkn to a Shirley Ho that contacted me from one of the FB pages

159.00 + 20 shp HDW3

199.00 + 20 shp HDW3-carbon


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

in US now.

Circus Monkey MTB Hub Set HDW3 | eBay


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

What are the specs on the HDW3-carbon? Weight etc?


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

I will ask Shirley


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

She says 225.6 for the carbon hub. So same as regular. Jst looks cooler..lol


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Just got a set of the Circus Monkey HDW 3, 28 hole. Nice to see the weight claim is accurate. They came with QR skewers, which I figured would be heavy steel QR's. I was shocked when I dropped them on the scale and they were 45.9 grams. The magnet test revealed there Ti. I'm building my son a set of wheels for his new bike and these should be perfect as he's 76 lbs. I'm actually only using the rear hub as I needed a lightweight convertable QR/15mm TA, so I've got the A2Z XCF 15 front hub. The pic with the two hubs on the scale are these two hubs. The single hub pics are the CM hubs.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

What I did not like was that thread for disk bolts were very loose. Had to use plenty of loctite.

Next time, even for a kids bike, I will get Novatecs, with 10/9 through axles..


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

What I did not like was that thread for disk bolts were very loose. Had to use plenty of loctite.

Next time, even for a kids bike, I will get Novatecs, with 10/9 through axles..


----------



## Fodder69 (Mar 29, 2012)

Even after this thread, I built up a set with a crest front and an arch ex rear and the HDW3. I don't ride in a lot of muddy harsh conditions so hopefully the bearings will hold, but I will say the seals on the front are pretty much an afterthought and any crud they block will be incidental. The rear looks better as far as seals and it seems solid. The wheelset came out to about 700g front and 900g rear with DT db spokes so pretty happy about that. And with a set of project 321 anondized rims I gotta say they look nice and came out to around $600 a pair since I built them up myself.


----------



## enyceckk101 (Mar 6, 2013)

Those are nice wheelsets. love the green


----------



## enyceckk (Sep 21, 2009)

They have newer models now

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/313402_161877787301035_1682386799_n.jpg


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

Hdh 12x142. Weighed in at 255. I added more grease. Kinda screwed up the pic. Each pawl has 3 contact points.


----------



## fabrice (Mar 27, 2006)

Grease isn't suited for pawl mechanisms. It makes them stick.
Use Oil.


----------



## bosbik (Aug 29, 2011)

how are your hubs holding up?...thinking of building some wheels with these..i figure these are better than those AEST hubs..i've heard a lot of trouble from those.


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

No complaint so far. i'm no racer or strava junky. thé turf ticklers are wore off thé racing ralphs i'm using. But that's not saying much.


----------



## Sablotny (Apr 2, 2004)

I gave up on my rear hub at under 1,500 miles. Didn't completely fail, but enough noise and wear that I didn't want to get stranded 15 miles from the trailhead. Like the weight and machining quality of the hubs - and the price - but not worth a disposable, one year wheel build to me.


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

Just happen to put another 4hrs. on the hub. and this was the result. i think the pawls are deflecting during engagement. probably not worth getting a new freehub body. if one part broke and the others are cracking. this might not be a deal breaker though. it may still function as designed. the material is really thin that broke off. 
i think some dremel work will prevent further breakage.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Looks like the ring gear made contact with the freehub. Notice the vertical line/mark were the anodizing is worn off. This was a common problem with the previous version due to the axle flexing. I can't believe you are ok with this. Good luck.


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

it's a 12x142 hub on a carbon frame flex is minimal. those are the only two areas that have the abrasion. and since i didn't ride it but a few miles after it started making noise. i'm going to assume it was the broken pieces. no other damage anywhere. the material is just to thin there not to have problems.


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Thats pretty common in all similar ratchet hubs. Either the metal fails there or the springs fail or the pawls themselves, or the ring. Its a flawed disposable design from the start. The only good hubs using this design seems to be WI and hadley, and shimano, but theirs is different.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

kidd said:


> it's a 12x142 hub on a carbon frame flex is minimal.[/URL]


This has nothing to do with what I was describing. The hub axel itself flexes enough to allow the freehub to make contact with the ring gear in the hub shell. There is also signs of the ratchet paws "mushrooming" their seat in the freehub body. Anyway, good luck with that.


----------



## Fodder69 (Mar 29, 2012)

My hubs are holding up well but I've only put about 500 miles on them so far.


----------



## bosbik (Aug 29, 2011)

oh man...looks like i need to look elsewhere for hubs...


----------



## Fodder69 (Mar 29, 2012)

Spoke too soon, freehub on my HDW3 exploded on me this past weekend. Emailed about a warranty but not sure what I'll do with it seeing as how I really won't trust it after this.











Fodder69 said:


> My hubs are holding up well but I've only put about 500 miles on them so far.


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I just recieved 2 new slx rear hubs and 2 front ones, I think the total cost was like a 100 or 150 or so, i don't really care but it was cheap. They last a long time, they are servicable and dependable. forget about all these nonsense noname crapola hubs. either get proper high end stuff time tested and proven like TP CK WI DT Hadley, (DT seems to be a stretch really to be honest) or get shimano non alu axle/internals models. The shimanos are the same quality as the rest and they cost nothing. They been doing that same design now for like 40 years they have it pretty well nailed down by now to be honest.


----------



## supericepower (Mar 10, 2011)

Good afternoon, someone can tell me what steps the hub bearings hdw2? thank you


----------



## Fodder69 (Mar 29, 2012)

Car Bone, no question about shimano being bullet proof (but heavy) and getting what you pay for (light but expensive!). I will say the seller I bought from off ebay, funkyhorse99 was solid and mailed me out a new freehub so my HDW3 is back working again. 

The new freehub has 5 pawls instead of 3. 

Problem now of course is I have a very light wheel that I still don't trust to give up the ghost. I'll ride it for local training but I'll be throwing my heavy XT wheel on for races and any ride I am not prepared to get stranded on, at least until I put enough miles in to be confident on this one.

I am 180 and ride a full suspension so take that for what it's worth. I don't think I am too hard on my equipment but I don't baby anything. Next rear wheel I build will probably have to be a Chris King but those things are not cheap...


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

Fodder69 said:


> Car Bone, no question about shimano being bullet proof (but heavy) and getting what you pay for (light but expensive!). I will say the seller I bought from off ebay, funkyhorse99 was solid and mailed me out a new freehub so my HDW3 is back working again.
> 
> The new freehub has 5 pawls instead of 3.
> 
> ...


That Ebay seller (funkyhorse99) is Shirley Ho & works at Circus Monkey. I have talked to her a lot & got a set of the HDW3 from her. She is great. Even named me on a pic on Facebook to help show me dimensions for my builder to help on spoke selection.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

car bone said:


> I just recieved 2 new slx rear hubs and 2 front ones, I think the total cost was like a 100 or 150 or so, i don't really care but it was cheap. They last a long time, they are servicable and dependable


Got another set of "no-name" Nukeproof hubs. Chose instead of Shimano for better rear and front axle options (in case I switch the wheelset from 135x12 and 20mm to 142x12 and 15mm). And can use it on another bike. With another pair I have (Generator AM wheelset) I see no functional difference with DT Swiss and Hope (Hadley would have better engagement). Easy to service. Yes, you get what you pay for, but sometimes it is enough. ... And Circus Monkey keep working perfect on my daughter's bike. 
Price (online)/reliability/features wise my favorites are Hope Pro 2s.


----------



## Verbl Kint (Feb 14, 2013)

Has anyone tried the newer HDH hubs (supposedly for AM/FR/Enduro)?


----------



## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

Verbl Kint said:


> Has anyone tried the newer HDH hubs (supposedly for AM/FR/Enduro)?


I am interested in these as well since the HDH supposedly can be ordered with 15mm axle.


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)

MY HDW3 / HDW2-F hubs on Crest 29er rims. 1514grams with skewers. 3 weeks & 280 miles. Still working nice & will post other updates


----------



## WerxRacing (Jun 1, 2011)




----------



## jerem21 (Nov 13, 2013)

*spoke length*



WerxRacing said:


> MY HDW3 / HDW2-F hubs on Crest 29er rims. 1514grams with skewers. 3 weeks & 280 miles. Still working nice & will post other updates


can yu please give us the spokes lengths thank you


----------



## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

well I ordered a set of these last week and now I'm reading all these posts above about them crapping out. 

What hubs would be a good alternative that weigh similar? I've read negative reviews on most lightweight hubs including Tune and others so it's hard to discern which is the "best."


----------



## pinkston32 (May 31, 2011)

I would say a reasonably priced, durable, lightweight alternative is WTB or American Classic hubs. However, engagement is relatively awful. Then of course, there are DT hubs but they're not exactly cheap, even secondhand.


----------



## sasu (Nov 16, 2013)

I just built Circus Monkey wheels on WTB Frequence i-23 rims for my Cannondale F29 Lefty.

It is winter here, lots of snow, and I will be riding these new wheels in the spring in a few months so no experience using them yet. The hubs look beautiful and flawless, that is a promising sign.

I built these wheels for semi-slick tires for my daily city commute, to compete on average speed with my colleagues. I am pretty sure I will eventually end up using these wheels for serious trail hammering. I will post my experiences later this year.


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

the hdh hubs i built last spring are holding up. after i modified the pawl limit tab. just built a set of the new 5 pawl hdw2 for my gravel grinder. i have been cleaning and relubing the pawls on both lately. just because i'm putting more miles on them, and all negativie posts.


----------



## Soundbud (Oct 21, 2013)

*Hdw3 hub bearing dimensions*

Anyone know what bearing sizes the hdw3 hubs take? Are they 28mm diameter?

Also what is the width from bearing to bearing? I'm thinking could use powerway / Novatec axles / free hub drivers with these hubs?

I have some powerway / novatec hubs I could take measurements from


----------



## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

how about circus monkey rims? anyone tried em?


----------



## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

no one using circus rims D202420?


----------



## geekonabike (Jun 1, 2010)

Exactly what I was looking for Matt, You Da Man!


----------



## Refreshing (Feb 1, 2015)

Just finished my wheelset build.

I bought the Circus Monkey HDW2 hubs from ebike.ltd on ebay. I read this thread 3 times before purchasing them then 3 more times after purchasing them because I am worried about reliability. I asked the seller to provide hub measurements but the crappy small pictures in this thread, on the CM website, and that the seller gave me are ALL unreadable so I used a spring tensioner and measured them myself following my book's instructions.

The hubs are laced to Spank Oozie 295's with Wheelsmith 14/15/14 gauge spokes. If I have any problems with the hubs I will let you guys know in this thread. If you don't hear from me again I had no problems.










Thanks for all the info in this thread! :thumbsup:


----------



## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

how's your circus monkey hubs?


----------



## geekonabike (Jun 1, 2010)

Forcemajeure said:


> how's your circus monkey hubs?


Mine take everything I through at them. Ran them on the Colorado Trail Race with no problems. I weigh 140, add another 50 to 55lbs for bike and gear. Gonna build two more wheel set using them.

what don't kill you only makes you smell stronger. ; -)


----------



## Lance Armstrong (Nov 17, 2012)

Hey guys, I am in desperate need of somewhere I can get a new freehub body.

I bought a used set of HDW's and the body is fairly chewed up, but my main problem is the bike industry and their stupid standards that make no sense. I assumed since my xtr m9000 11speed worked on 10 speed hubs, that my ultegra 11 speed would as well.

Of course Shimano would have an 11speed freehub body for road, but make 10 speed compatible with 11 speed for mountain bike, because that makes sense, right?

I tried emailing circus monkey, and numerous ebay sellers of the hubs to no avail. Hopefully you guys can shed some light where to get a new freehub body. To be sure, this is the HDW freehub Body with the 3 pawl mechanism.

Cheers!


Cheers!


----------



## Lance Armstrong (Nov 17, 2012)

Lance Armstrong said:


> Hey guys, I am in desperate need of somewhere I can get a new freehub body.
> 
> I bought a used set of HDW's and the body is fairly chewed up, but my main problem is the bike industry and their stupid standards that make no sense. I assumed since my xtr m9000 11speed worked on 10 speed hubs, that my ultegra 11 speed would as well.
> 
> ...


I included pictures of the freehub body etc. The basic 3 pawl one.


----------



## Haint (Jan 25, 2012)

The real Lance Armstrong?


----------



## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

howdy. I have a circus monkey hdw2 front and rear. Needs new bearings. circus monkey appears out of biz. can anybody give me a part number or the measurements needed so I can get the correct bearings online? TIA. jv


----------



## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

Thank you.


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

*Try this email...*



jvossman said:


> Thank you.


[email protected]

This shop may have parts.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

jvossman said:


> howdy. I have a circus monkey hdw2 front and rear. Needs new bearings. circus monkey appears out of biz. can anybody give me a part number or the measurements needed so I can get the correct bearings online? TIA. jv


Pop them out and measure with calipers. Then order one of the many available fine replacements.

Will definitely be a more reliable method then some odd interwebs shops guessing remotely. You need to get them out anyway.


----------



## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Anyone have any info on whether or not much changed in the front hubs between HDW / HDW2 / HDW3 revisions? All seem to be listed at 119g and the notes on the ebay listings I see all just refer to differences in the rear hubs like # of pawls.


----------



## Kaiser71 (Jul 11, 2021)

surf418 said:


> What is your opinion on Circus Monkey's? What's the weight for rear hub? They quoted me $90 for rear hub only, seems pretty cheap but what about quality?


----------



## Kaiser71 (Jul 11, 2021)

surf418 said:


> What is your opinion on Circus Monkey's? What's the weight for rear hub? They quoted me $90 for rear hub only, seems pretty cheap but what about quality?


I been using Circus Monkey HDH2 hubs since 2014. It's a QR hubs. Engagement is great 6 pawls it has a discent loud sound but not as loud as Hope or DT swiss. I had no issue on it. Every now and then I had it maintained in our local bike shop but recently it started to feel grinding so after 8 years I had to have a full bearing replacement. So that's how durable this hubs are. Saddly the newer models is not as durable as the 1st Generation.


----------

