# Full Suspension #1



## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

Starting my first full suspension build today. Looking to start as simple as possible with a single pivot. The leverage ratio is modeled after the Transistion Patrol, or as close as I could get it anyway.

I'll try to post pictures up as I go and bring up any challenges along the way. I'll start with a few screen shots from Linkage.















I have been modeling the frame in linkage and then drawing it all in AuotCAD. The tolerances are a little tight (tire clearance to seat tube, shock mount to main tubes, fork clearance to downtube) but it seems like it should all work. Time to find out!


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Cool. What are you going to make it out of?

-Walt


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

This will be straight gauge 35 thou chromoly. 1.25" top tube, 1.5" down tube, 3/4" rear end with some manipulation for clearance (we'll see how this part goes), paragon syntace drop outs, and ISCG 05 chainguide mount. 

Starting with 26" since I have all the parts already. Maybe a different wheel size for the next one. It might be a bit of a tank with all the straight gauge tube, but I'm going for making something that just works on this first one. Now back to the garage!


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

Well, the weather ended up cooperating this past weekend and I was able to get some time in riding in the dirt. This didn't allow for much frame building time, but riding has to come first in my book.

As it stands the front triangle is mitered, less the pivot location. More good weather on the horizon, so this project might come together slowly.


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

After reading your first post, I was going to suggest bending the seat tube and down tube near the bottom bracket to get more tire and shock clearance, respectively, as you seemed slightly worried about it. Although, seeing as the front tri is already mitered, if you mock stuff up and it looks too tight, you could make the rear tri a little taller which would give you more clearance for the shock at the downtube as well as more tire clearance since it would reduce travel a bit.


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

I'm mostly worried about clearance between the rear tire and the chainring. With a 2.4 high roller 2 measuring close to 2.5" wide, it's a tight fit. I have also decided to increase my chainstay length slightly to provide a .5" gap between the tire and seat tube at bottom out. Previously I had .25". Now my chainstay length is 16.75". I currently ride 16.9" chainstays, so I'm in an area I'm familiar with.

At this point I am building other tools and fixtures to help build the rest of the bike. I'm working on a chainstay bender that is a bit of a shot in the dark. I attempted to recreate the Anvil tubing bender out of wood. Not sure if it will work, but I used scrap to build it, so at least it was cheap. I'm routing the groove for the tubing tonight, so hopefully I'll be posting some pictures of bent 3/4" tube this weekend.


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

Not a whole lot of progress, but I have the pivot placed. Front triangle is about ready to be tacked. Feels like I'm spending more time making fixture parts than frame parts, but I guess it just has to be that way.







The bender worked for making the small bends in the chainstays. Not sure how far I can push it, but I'll try to make the vertical bend up to the pivot as well with this bender.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Cool! Subscribed.


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

Had a fairly productive day yesterday, I was able to get the front triangle cleaned and and welded up. 







Everything seemed to be going smoothly until I put the frame back in the jig and noticed I had distorted the head tube. I know my welding isn't quite there yet, but didn't expect to distort the head tube this much. I don't think it's salvageable, I'm a little over a half mm out of round. 







Tig brazed the reinforcing rings with silicon-bronze first and everything was still nice and round. Then I welded up the main tubes rotating between the seat tube joints and head tube to try and control heat. Didn't work. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention. Maybe I welded in the wrong sequence. Not sure, but I think I may be starting over.

Has anyone ever brought a ovalized head tube like this back from the dead?


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

You just need a lot more TIG practice and/or a thicker head tube. You're using a wicked ton of heat and not applying it very evenly there. Might also be worth backpurging the head tube, that can help some with distortion. 

Also, ditch the silicon bronze and just silver braze your rings on. Much easier, and less likely to screw things up/less heat. 

Bummer, but you'll get there. Cut her up and make some practice joints. 

-Walt


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## mickuk (Jul 6, 2007)

I'll admit to distorting head tubes! But I'm getting better at not doing it now....

The very simple solution is to just buy a cheap aluminium headset and file the cups to fit. Will work fine for the amount of time you'll ride this before wanting to build full suspension #2. Works best with cartridge bearings - remove the bearing, file what you think is needed and press the cups in. If the cartridge won't drop in the cup then it is easy to measure where some more material needs removing - push the cup out and remove a bit more from the outside in that area. Crude but effective for a proto personal consumption frame


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. I think I'll try the "just make it work" idea before I put any more time into the rest of the build. If this doesn't work, the frame is destined for welding practice as Walt suggested. 

I'm not sure I'll ever be satisfied with a frame I build, so I'm sure there will always be another one in the works by the time I finish a project.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

tyler_mtb said:


> I'm not sure I'll ever be satisfied with a frame I build, so I'm sure there will always be another one in the works by the time I finish a project.


If you're like most of us here, that will *always* end up being the case! 

You might try reaming it and seeing what you've got, too. Might be close enough that you can ream a little extra and then press in an .020" oversized King headset or something along those lines (call King, they have 'em for almost any headset configuration).

-Walt


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

Is it possible to 'silver braze" the head tube reinforcing rings on with a tig torch? The reason I was using the silicon bronze is because I don't have a oxy-acetylne setup.


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## shirk (Mar 24, 2004)

Why not just use a regular 44mm headtube?


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

Purely because it's what I have already. When I bough material I bought 3 feet of 44mm head tube and a few sets of reinforcement rings so that I would have it around for a few bikes. I could just buy a machined one from Paragon.


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## shirk (Mar 24, 2004)

What? 

If you have 3 feet of 44mm headtube stock why are you farting around with the rings? 

The True Temper 44mm and the 2nd version of the Nova 44mm head tube stock doesn't need rings.


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

I bought this:
Solid Bikes ? 44mm Straight Headtube


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Solidbikes is just reselling the TT tubing at a markup. 

No diss intended, they make great stuff, but that head tube is just a TT product. 

Get a Paragon HT, nice and beefy. You can't distort it if you *try* - fantastic for first frames. 

-Walt


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## shirk (Mar 24, 2004)

Walt said:


> Solidbikes is just reselling the TT tubing at a markup.
> 
> No diss intended, they make great stuff, but that head tube is just a TT product.
> 
> ...


Oh I bet it could be distorted if a noob really really tried.


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

Ended up finishing this build last weekend. It rides quite well, it was weird getting use to the steep seat angle, but it didn't take too long. I'll get a few rides on it and then add some cable guides and maybe some paint.


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## shirk (Mar 24, 2004)

That came out looking great. Nice work.


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

Thanks shirk, I was definitely taking mental notes reading though your full suspension thread. This forum is a wealth of knowledge for beginners.


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## dump (Nov 14, 2005)

Great work tyler_mtb! Can't wait to start my build this fall!


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

+1. This thread is rad.


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## MDEnvEngr (Mar 11, 2004)

Looks great! Ride the crap out of it and think about #2!


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## shirk (Mar 24, 2004)

tyler_mtb said:


> Thanks shirk, I was definitely taking mental notes reading though your full suspension thread. This forum is a wealth of knowledge for beginners.


Yes the forum has been a great resource.

I've got another one partially complete. Front triangle mostly mitered. I keep going back and forth on elevated chainstays for normal. An unplanned bathroom reno has put it on the back burner.


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

shirk said:


> Yes the forum has been a great resource.
> 
> I've got another one partially complete. Front triangle mostly mitered. I keep going back and forth on elevated chainstays for normal. An unplanned bathroom reno has put it on the back burner.


Real world always gets in the way. What are you looking to change with the new frame?

I have to get some more time in on this one before I make any final decisions, but I've got a shorter travel 29r 4 bar in the works for the next bike. DH rig has been on my mind as well, never enough time!


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

Still going strong! I've got quite a few miles on this frame now and I'm still liking it. I think I'll go with a bit less anti-squat and a little longer reach for the next bike. I'll have to make sure the next bike is on a more strict diet as well. Came out just under 34 lbs for the race setup. DH casing tire and split tube tubeless didn't help.









Raced the Aspen/Snowmass EWS this past weekend and made sure to grab a photo of the only two homemade bikes at the event. Wenner's bike is a 6" front and rear 29er weighing in at around 40lbs! He is a beast for pedaling that thing as far as we had to this past weekend.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

That is fantastic, what a cool picture!

-Walt


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

+1. Rad. Any action shots? Bonus points if they have "SAMPLE" or something else diagonally printed across them.

[edit: just re-read thread and saw that I made the same comment several posts ago. Man, I'm dumb}


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## tyler_mtb (Nov 5, 2014)

Unfortunately my class was one of the first down the mountain each day with the pros riding several hours later. This pretty much guarantees there are no professional photos out there. However, I can thank my lady for this pic from the Hell's Kitchen section of stage 6.








(yes my thru axle is loose, not sure where/how that happend)


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

Cool. At least the kid in the orange looks suitably impressed.


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## reynoldswrap (Mar 10, 2020)

Awesome looking bike! I've been planning a simple single pivot build myself, what did you use for the main pivot? Headtube and headset bearings?


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