# What am I doing wrong w/ this table top?



## fitek (Nov 25, 2014)

I've seen a couple people clear this tabletop on 20" BMX bikes and one person on a big DH rig. Seems like going faster would be one solution, but none of those folks seemed to be going all that fast, so I figure it's my technique... get more altitude to stay in the air a bit longer.

I've been going over this tabletop for some time, adjusting technique, but I'm out of ideas now. A few things seemed to help the most:
1) Loose hands, weight forward more than my brain was comfortable with (at first anyway)
2) Dropping low and then extending up - critically keeping my heels down and then extending my feet as well, rather than just keeping my feet parallel to the ground the whole time, made a big difference.

Thoughts?


----------



## Seaan (May 12, 2011)

Stop over-thinking it and just go faster. That's all you need to do.


----------



## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

It appears your front wheel is dropping down a touch as it exits the lip, and you're rotating forward pretty early as well. 

It's hard to tell how much pump/compression you're getting at the base of the jump. I'd suggest maybe pumping harder and slightly sooner, before extending as you near the lip. Your overall form doesn't look bad. On a jump that is hard to clear with available speed, I focus on a hard pump, and then bring my bars up toward my chest as I leave the lip. I hold them there till I near the landing transition, then extend my arms and suck up the rear to clear the lip. Seems to maximize the hang time. 

More speed is a bandaid which may bite you later as transitions steepen and you hit multiple rhythm jumps in a set. BMX bikes may get more height off any given jump, as a shorter wheelbase will put more of the bike on the steepest part of the lip(among other reasons).


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

I have answers for you. 

First, read this:

_Pull up or push down bars on transition of lip?_

Pull up or push down bars on transition of lip? - Pinkbike Forum

The main point I make there, is that if you want to go higher off a jump, you need to shift your stance back a bit--directly over your cranks (not forward on your hands), and let the front end come up when you boost.

But, you don't necessarily have to go high to go far. It IS possible to clear a long distance while staying low. BMX racers do it all the time.

Going in a 45 degree arc sends you farther. But 30 or 60 puts you in the same spot.


























https://www.leelikesbikes.com/category/cool-rides/bmx/page/3

Watch some videos of pro bmx racers. You'll see how a lot of them do a "double-pump" type of body motion when they're staying low and fast over jumps. They sort of "un-jump" the jump, like boost with your feet, lower down on the face of the jump, then soak up the "lip" of the jump so it doesn't boost you high.... Then when you're going across the top, you lift your bike up again to not case the landing.

https://www.leelikesbikes.com/pushing-through-a-bmx-double.html


----------



## Obi (Oct 16, 2005)

What cmc said applies, completely. @ the 2 second mark you're too far forward in position, and you're not keeping the bike sucked up enough through the distance.









Although, it is time to dig and fix the jumps. I was wondering who was out there, well, besides me a little over a week ago.


----------



## fitek (Nov 25, 2014)

Obi said:


> Although, it is time to dig and fix the jumps. I was wondering who was out there, well, besides me a little over a week ago.


I was out there 3 times last week! It's getting dark a bit early now so I think I'm going to start going early, on my way to work.

EDIT: also, I keep a shovel in my car now, so if you have some priorities to focus on... I still don't really know where to start. Everything is so disjointed. I mainly ride the circular section near the east end of the park that has the one table top because I'm working on turning mostly right now.

Additionally, I started making a small trail near Carlmont, just to get a feel for it vs the shells. There's been a lot of activity there lately with the rain. The ground is super loose and relatively easy to dig in.


----------



## fitek (Nov 25, 2014)

cmc4130 said:


> I have answers for you.
> 
> First, read this:
> 
> ...


Hi cmc, thanks for the thorough explanation. I'll try not leaning forward so much and pulling back instead of pushing off the lip.

Also wanted to thank you for posting in such detail about building jumps. I was reading this last week about it and saved a couple of your posts. Super helpful!


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm going to put out there that it looks to me like you aren't flowing with the transition. You appear to be compressing an awful lot for that small lip and bunny hopping the bike in order to make the landing tranny. But instead of just flowing a smooth arc, you're transforming your momentum 'up', and that's letting you down too short. 

I'm not meaning this as a slight, (seriously, I'm not), but that jump is really small. Nothing is wrong with that...what I am meaning by saying that, is it doesn't need the tensed up approach that you are coming into it with. (even much bigger stuff doesn't, but that's another discussion) I would practice just riding at that tranny with your body more relaxed. Not pressing down on your bars. Just flow off the lip, and look for the landing as you're coming off. You will follow an arc path. You might need a little more speed, but that's what starting off on table tops is about...you learn to judge how much you need for a given set, and you can set it down on top. 

More than compressing, you actually want to be somewhat extending yourself as you go up that tranny, in a pumping motion, like you'd do up the face of a ramp to build speed. This isn't always necessary. It depends on the gap, how high you need to go, how much speed you are bringing in. The steepness of the sets. But really, that's for later. For now, you need to session that little set until you can pretty much hit it with your eyes closed, and without needing to get into attack mode to hit it. Just be relaxed, and a bit more neutral on the bike.

Repetition, repetition, repetition. 

Another thing that I'll mention is that you had enough air to make that landing smooth. A skill that you'll learn is how to point it in. You need to be able to nose it into landings and control the tail with your feet on the pedals. 

One way to start getting the feeling of this is bunny-hopping 'INTO' tranny's. You can do this anywhere... rolling along the top of a ramp, hopping into the landing after rolling the table top, even doing a street cruise and looking for the curb cut/handicap ramps and hopping over the curb to land into the side cut, or other times riding along the sidewalk and hopping into the ramp itself if there's enough transition there. It depends with those, some places have really good ones, and others have super dull boring, flat and 'safe' ones, lol. Keep your eyes peeled. It's all about learning how to control that back wheel. And once you start running rhythm, you'll find that it is all about the backside. As long as you 'get good backside' (meaning you lland well) the next set is GO, as long as your balls allow you to go.

At that point you will become a dirt jumping slacker...


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

fitek said:


> I've seen a couple people clear this tabletop on 20" BMX bikes and one person on a big DH rig. . . . .


hey, by the way.... you might benefit from some taller handlebars. for a while, a lot of stock 24" bmx's came with 5"-ish rise handlebars.

but, if you go up to 7" (or 7.25"-7.75" ish), you might be surprised.

i've tried lots of different 24" bmx setups. check out these article about bar height on 24" bmx:

https://cruiserrevolution.com/2011/03/01/traditional-cruiser-bars-who-needs-em/

https://cruiserrevolution.com/2011/08/26/tested-tall-bars-on-race-cruiser/

https://cruiserrevolution.com/2009/03/25/big-tall-sunday-24umph-bars/

Note that bars between 6.75" to 7.75" are kind of rare these days, because most of the BMX world has gone with 8"s, 9"s, and 10's, for 20"-wheel bikes. And there are only a few after-market bars that are sub-8". But, this Sunday 24umph bar could be a good choice:

Sunday 24umph XL handlebar | Empire BMX

Or these: Answer Pro Chromoly Bar-7"

DK General Lee 24" with 7.25" bars, and Tribute Twin with 8" bars:









Liquid Feedback 24" with 8.25" bars:









FIT CR24 with 7.25" bars:









These are the lower bars that the FIT CR24 came with:


----------



## fitek (Nov 25, 2014)

My bars are definitely on the shorter side. I was wondering about that, because I can't extend my legs very far up before my arms are totally straight.


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

fitek said:


> My bars are definitely on the shorter side. I was wondering about that, because I can't extend my legs very far up before my arms are totally straight.


Well? ; )


----------



## fitek (Nov 25, 2014)

cmc4130 said:


> Well? ; )


Went a couple of times but the wind was blowing hard over that tabletop, and could never get enough speed and kept going off the side too. Gettin' dark real early.

I ordered the 24umph bars.


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

fitek said:


> . . .
> 
> I ordered the 24umph bars.


rad. let us know what you think.


----------



## fitek (Nov 25, 2014)

Got the bars on last night.

View attachment 1108286


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

fitek said:


> Got the bars on last night.
> 
> View attachment 1108286


hmmm. link doesn't work?

the pinkbike.com photo album feature works pretty well, without all the ads and crap that are on photobucket.com and other sites like that.


----------



## fitek (Nov 25, 2014)

Take 2!

It's MUCH easier to manual with these bars. And my back thanks you. I always had back pain (mild, but there) from the lower height bars.


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

fitek said:


> View attachment 1110149
> 
> 
> Take 2!
> ...


Sweet. Glad they worked out!


----------

