# New clone 3 x XML T-6 49.88 shipped



## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Ok, here is the link. I took the plunge for this price. I have a newer barley used GEO 6.0 battery that I will use w/ this and just keep the one w/ the unit as a back up.

3X CREE XM-L T6 LED 3800Lm LED Headlight Headlamp Bicycle Bike Light | eBay

I'll post on this thread when I get it and give some details, what I think actual lumens are, etc. Sorry, don't have a way to actually test it but I do have a Dinotte XML-3 so I can measure off that.

Hope it actually works and hope I actually get it. Says delivery Sept 29th - Oct 5th which means Oct 5th.

Oh yeah, only has a 1 month warranty. I'll just have to make sure I use it on low when climbing.

More to follow.

MB


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Yep, hard not to lay money down when the prices are that low. 
The 4400mAh battery is too small to power a 3 x XM-L set up UNLESS the lamp is very under-driven. Even your Geoman 6.0 battery would have a hard time powering a lamp like this if the emitters are fully driven. The only reason I say that is because someone said their GM 6.0 battery had a hard time driving the Gemini Olympia. The Gemini Olympia though is a very bright lamp and likely pulling a good amount of power. 

Let us know how it works out. Heck, even if it only looks like 1500 lumen you still got your monies worth. Let us know how it compares to the DiNotte XML 3.

There's going to be a lot of bike light vendors reaching for the Xanax when they start seeing these roll out.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

I can't build something that cheap and it won't look anywhere near as nice.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Cat

I'm not the most knowledgeable about the currents, etc but the listing says it's running at 1A. I'll assume that is somewhat under driven and probably putting out a realistic 1000 lumens, about 300-350 per LED.

If that's the case, it might actually work fairly well and not overheat. And yeah, my first thought was the battery would not drive it.

We'll see.

MB


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> Hey Cat
> 
> I'm not the most knowledgeable about the currents, etc but the listing says it's running at 1A. I'll assume that is somewhat under driven and probably putting out a realistic 1000 lumens, about 300-350 per LED.
> 
> ...


Actually the 1-amp listing is for the charger. What the light head is doing is anyone's guess. You should be able to tell a lot just from the run time. The longer the run time on high the less the current draw is ( generally speaking ). For fully driven emitters with the battery that is being sold with the lamp I would think run time to be about 1 hr and 15 minutes on high. If the run time ends up being longer than the output is less than optimal. Personally I feel if it gets 1.5hr on high ( with supplied battery ) I would be thrilled. That would indicate the lamp is drawing a decent amount of juice and the resultant lumen output should be very bright.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Six and half hours to charge the battery... oh that's going to be fun. Thank god I own several magicshine chargers at 1.8A output. Anyway the XM-Ls are capable of using 10W each and the battery is 32.5W (3.7 nominal voltage @ 2.2A per cell times four cells) so yeah, full power you're looking at an hour at high and then you wanna change the battery pack.


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## reinholdus2 (Feb 8, 2010)

The producer advertises this light with 20 watt. Its a triple T6, its small, probably lightweight too and its rock bottom CHEAP, 40 $. 

A spare 6cell battery will be 17$, making it 3 sets with 4cell and 6cell battery each, incl. shipping for around 200$.
goldrunhui.en.alibaba.com/product/634983612-213894431/GoldRunhui_RH_B0041_20W_3_XML_3T6_LED_2000LM_18650_Aluminum_Bicycle_Light.h 
The XML U2 has been measured in an “Ulbricht sphere” at 60-degree temperature (between 25 and 80degree is an increasing drop of efficiency, reaching 15% at 3A) and at 6,65 Watt at around 700lm and 105lm/w. 
That’s a total current draw of 2,2AH at 3x 6,65w= 20w. 

Subtract:
5-8% for the T6/U2 efficiency difference, 
20% -30% efficiency of circuits and optics.
So 700lm -30/40% = 500lm - 400lumen x3= 1200 – 1500lm OFT, 
a bit meagre, but very good lumen/watt ratio at 2,2Ah.
Therefore, it’s a bit better than a 4up XPG, but cheaper and more efficient.
Some sites advertise it correctly with 1200lm. 
cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1740
Lumen/watt is around 100lm/w at lower current, 
Lumen/$ is around 30 per greenback. 

The question is how the beam looks like.
The SMO reflector suggest throw, but 44,5 mm diameter is rather small,
but depth of 56mm could be sufficient. Weight is around 100-150gramm, 
I guessed. 

I really look forward to some beam shots soon here.

The Fluxient 3x U2 is certainly better,
But if the throw of the RH B004 is good and the weight light,
2 of them with a spare battery will cost the same as 1 Fluxient.


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## yiannakas (Dec 21, 2011)

*photos*

first photo 1xXML (with modded reflector, more flow), 
second, the cheap 3xXML 
third, the Niteye B20 (2xXML U2)


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

I decided to try this thing out too. A variant however with a 6400mah battery pack... 3800 Lum 3x Cree XM-L XML T6 LED HeadLamp Headlight Bicycle Lamp Bike Car Light | eBay

Hopefully it works when it shows up


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Bad A. 10 bucks more but you get a better battery if you can actually believe them.

Rein, I'm actually hoping the actual lumens is around 1200 which will tell me that it's not over driven and will actually work. The Dinotte XML-3 that I have is 1034 tested lumens and is more than enough light for the bars and only gets warm-almost hot if you leave it on high for a while w/o air flow. As soon as you move, the unit never runs more than just warm on the high setting.

Clone should be here in a week or so and I'll post picts, etc. 

Just can't beat the price unless it's fails quick as it only has a 1 MONTH warranty. Time will tell all.

MB


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

mb323323 said:


> Bad A. 10 bucks more but you get a better battery if you can actually believe them.


Yup, I know. It's gotta be true... it's just gotta! It's printed in plain black & white, and it's on the internet! It's official 

We'll see when it shows. If the battery is the 4400mah, then so be it.


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## milnerpt (Dec 7, 2008)

Keep us updated... Im looking at this clone, and the other standard clone people seem to say is decent....

Buy CREE XML XM-L T6 LED Bike Bicycle Light HeadLight HeadLamp 1200LM 9W for Wholesale - Free Shipping

I splurged at Action LED for a more quality light on the helmet, and want to have something a little less $ on the bars..... Trying to wrap my head around the conversations going on in the forum makes my head spin, but reviews and abbreviated threads like this are most helpful figuring out run times, functionality, and what wont crap out on the first few rides.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

yiannakas said:


> first photo 1xXML (with modded reflector, more flow),
> second, the cheap 3xXML
> third, the Niteye B20 (2xXML U2)


Nice comparison shots. The 3xml and the 2xml look about the same. I realize the Niteye B20 is better quality and has more features, but at over 3 times the cost. The extra features aren't things that I particularly need, so I'd happily go with the 3xml (better yet, 2of them).


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

The clone arrived today. 

I'm not sure how to upload pictures to the site but when I figure it out, I'll upload.

The light head looks pretty well built. Aluminum probably. The connectors do work w/ MS and GOE batteries. The connectors are a bit different but they work. The battery supplied is the typical cheap battery most likely and the connectors supplied are lame, they don't even stay connected. However, the GEO connector is much better and secures really well. I'll be using the GEO battery. You'll have to tape the battery supplied connectors together or they will just come apart.

Typical O ring mounting.

Now for the light. It's pretty bright. It's a touch brighter than the Dinotte XML-3 so which I am happy about as that tells me it's somewhat under driven. I would guess this to be 1200 real lumens. I have to reserve judgement on heat dissipation as I have not tested that and it was over 100 here today and still mid 80's. SF Bay Area Indian Summer!! The unit got warm/hot after only 10 seconds. Again, I hesitate to say anything regarding this until it cools down some. The beam is somewhat spot but has good peripheral light. Not as good as the Dinotte but they are not apples to apples.

Overall, I'm impressed w/ the amount of light. I'm not impressed w/ the lame connectors. Time will tell if it's durable.

1 MONTH warranty!

Overall, way worth a $50 investment. However, you have to be willing to eat it if it blows after a month.

I would never ride w/ it as an only light alone.

Will report back w/ picts and beam shots when I figure it all out.

MB

Edit: Forgot, the light head is 4.65 oz. In comparison, the XML-3 Dinotte is 3.55 oz. Overall size is larger than the Dinotte.


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

mb323323 said:


> The clone arrived today.
> 
> I'm not sure how to upload pictures to the site but when I figure it out, I'll upload.
> 
> ...


MB, now you received the light, I'm curious as to what is those pokie dots around the light switch? TIA


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

thanks for the tips guys.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> The clone arrived today.
> 
> I'm not sure how to upload pictures to the site but when I figure it out, I'll upload.
> 
> ...


MB, I need some clarification. First you said the lamp was brighter than your DiNotte XML3. Then you said the DiNotte was better. Was that just because the DiNotte is a better build / over-all system or is there something else about the beam pattern of the DiNotte that made it better as well? 

The fact that there is some problems with the connectors goes a long way to explain why they are selling them at the low price. For the record I pulled the trigger on one of these myself because I figured it was worth the money even if the battery was crap. Mine should come in two weeks.

I'm crossing my fingers in hope that this lamp might be a real thrower and not be too heavy on the helmet. I figure if I end up not liking it I might be able to find someone at work who might want to buy it. :thumbsup:


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Cat

Yeah, too heavy for the helmet for me. I think most would think it's too heavy as well. Haven't used it on the trail yet. Will Wed eve so I'll get back to you. It does throw pretty well, better than the Dinotte XML-3 but the overall beam pattern is better on the XML-3 as it lights up everything in front of you for about 70 feet pretty much w/ a very even amount of light. The clone has the typical hot spot and darker around the edges. It's a steal though for 50 bucks. Of course the Dinotte is better quality. I'll be interested to see what you think as you own more lights than I do and can make a better assessment. 

Colleen, those dumb looking things seem to be rivets. They must hold something. I thought they would be screws so I could take it apart "when" it fails. Or should I say "if" it fails. If you want, you can borrow and put on your sphere to test lumens.

MB


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> Hey Cat
> 
> Yeah, too heavy for the helmet for me. I think most would think it's too heavy as well. Haven't used it on the trail yet. Will Wed eve so I'll get back to you. It does throw pretty well, better than the Dinotte XML-3 but the overall beam pattern is better on the XML-3 as it lights up everything in front of you for about 70 feet pretty much w/ a very even amount of light. The clone has the typical hot spot and darker around the edges. It's a steal though for 50 bucks. Of course the Dinotte is better quality. I'll be interested to see what you think as you own more lights than I do and can make a better assessment.
> 
> ...


If it ends up not being able to beat out the Xeccon S-12 for throw I will likely try to mod it be more useful as a bar light. Perhaps a separate diffusion lens over one of the LED's might give it a bit more close in spill.

From what you've said I think it's about 17gms heavier than the S-12. That would make it noticeable, certainly more weight than most would like. However I use the S-12 sometimes with a two cell on the helmet. So far I've not had major complications with that set-up. I figure as long as this clone lamp doesn't cause helmet sag it might just work. We'll see.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

I saw this today. Cree XM-L T6 LED Bike Light
It's local so I think I will check it out at somepoint. The lumens doesn't quite add up, but looks interesting.


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

If those are indeed rivots in the back housing, I wonder how they will hold up in term of keeping water out of the housing? Interesting way of holding the unit together unless they are more for cosmetic reasoning.

I would be interested in a beam comparison of this light with those in the same catagory. Lights in the 1200 lumens range such as Gloworm, clone 872 or even the quad XP-G. A quick test in sphere will determine a relative OTF lumens and a outdoor beamshot will be nice.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Ok, rode w/ this on the trail Wed eve. Fire roads and single track.

When I first tested this in my yard, I thought it might be a little brighter than a Dinotte XML-3. On the trail, it has a hot spot but the peripheral lighting around the hot spot is not as bright as the XML-3 and has those rings around the hot spot.

Cat, the throw is average. The throw on my clone T-6 is better.

I forgot to mention this starts on low setting, then medium and high. The difference between medium and high is minimal.

On the trail I noticed something odd when I turned it on and scrolled through the settings. The beam pattern seemed to change. I then turned it on and looked to see if all the LED's were on and I guessed right after I saw that. Low is 1 LED on, medium is 2 LED's on and high is 3. The difference between medium and high is minimal.

I works good though for a 50 dollar light. Especially if you have a GEO battery hanging around.

It never got hot. I even turned it on high up a 20 minute climb and it only got warm. The 6.0 GEO battery lasted approx 3 hours before it turned red. All good signs that this is not over driven.

Ok, since I'm lame at picts, etc how about I ask Cat to finish the review when his arrives and does beam shots, etc.

For 50 bucks, I'd buy one but not as an only light.

Thx

MB


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

colleen c said:


> If those are indeed rivots in the back housing, I wonder how they will hold up in term of keeping water out of the housing? Interesting way of holding the unit together unless they are more for cosmetic reasoning.


Liquid electrical tape like Plastic Dip might be a good idea. It's easy to take off. My only concern would be that it might provide some thermal insulation and cause the light to overheat.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> ...On the trail I noticed something odd when I turned it on and scrolled through the settings. The beam pattern seemed to change. I then turned it on and looked to see if all the LED's were on and I guessed right after I saw that.* Low is 1 LED on, medium is 2 LED's on and high is 3. *The difference between medium and high is minimal.....
> Thx
> 
> MB


*OH NO!...:cryin:....THE DREADED MONO-LED-PER-STEP, LED MODE FUNCTION!...*:nonod:..Pardon me but I don't know what else to call it. Even worse is the fact that they are doing it on a lamp with a reflector set-up designed with cut outs. Without all LED's being lit at the same time ( to fill in the gaps ) there are bound to be aberrations in the beam pattern*(s)*.

This is like the worst feature you can get in a Chinese made lamp other than it not working at all. When switching modes, change in intensity is one thing, change in beam pattern is quite another!

To be blunt: This type of mode function should be outlawed unless clearly stated in the product description by the seller. *THIS IS NOT TRUE MULTI-EMITTER/ MULTI-MODE FUNCTION as would be commonly expected by anyone buying a bike light or torch.*  :incazzato:

The really sad part about all of this is that once the news gets out many people will now not be willing to take a chance buying a multi-emitter Chinese made lamp or torch. *The Chinese don't realize it yet but they just shot their entire industry in the foot*. If I have any plans to buy other lamps this means I will have to contact the seller before hand to verify "True full-time multi-emitter function".
Not only will this be difficult but most will probably have no idea what I'm even talking about. :madman: :bluefrown:

(* stock tip: shares in all U.S. made bike lights just went up.  )


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

The worst thing about that type of modes is that the steps between levels isn't very useful. I don't know about the beam pattern being all that bad since I'd expect this to be a flooder.


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> *OH NO!...:cryin:....THE DREADED MONO-LED-PER-STEP, LED MODE FUNCTION!...*:nonod:..Pardon me but I don't know what else to call it. Even worse is the fact that they are doing it on a lamp with a reflector set-up designed with cut outs. Without all LED's being lit at the same time ( to fill in the gaps ) there are bound to be aberrations in the beam pattern*(s)*.
> 
> This is like the worst feature you can get in a Chinese made lamp other than it not working at all. When switching modes, change in intensity is one thing, change in beam pattern is quite another!
> 
> ...


Well I guess the brighter side to this is that there will be little if any PWM flickering for those who are sensitive to PWM, but still.....yuck!


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

If adding resisters to the first two LEDs is possible, that should help with the mode spacing. It'll reduce total output, but it shouldn't be very noticable. Some of that could probably be gained by increasing the current to the third LED. That doesn't help people that can't or won't mod their own lights though.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Mine should show up tomorrow. I'll try to post some pics and ride data. It's that time of year around here


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Well mine has arrived. Happy to say, out of the box, it works! - which is good. I should be able to test tonight and provide some real world thoughts on this light.

I purchased this version, which claimed to have a 6400mah battery: 3800 Lum 3x Cree XM-L XML T6 LED HeadLamp Headlight Bicycle Lamp Bike Car Light | eBay

Though the battery is shrink-wrapped (as expected) so I really have no idea what is in there. First up is a pic of battery and charger, which is the 8.4v/1.0amp charger. Some people complain about the low amp charger but I don't find it a big deal. I've got my original magicshine 1.8amp charger and can use that if I'm in a hurry, or really go at the battery with my R/C charger if I'm in a real hurry. 

Next are some other pics of the headlamp... I am using the mount from my older niterider MiNewt, since it offers a cool removable feature. The adjustable mount attached to the headlamp is the perfect size to fit onto the niterider 'pod' which can then be removed from the helmet baseplate. Very convenient and keeps people from looking at you funny when riding without your light. This mount has also been compatible with my magicshine808, and I'd imagine is compatible with most headlamps of this size.

The headlamp does weigh a little bit more than my 808, but I don't think I will notice too much. I have mounted the light pretty much centered on the helmet to try to keep it balanced, anyway. Those who mount their lights closer to the front of their helmet may notice the weight more.

Last, I have some beam shots. (sorry for the bad clarity) Low/Med/Hi - It is as described in the item description, and mentioned in the above posts. The levels coordinate with how many lights are on. low = 1, med = 2, high = 3. Some people have mentioned how this sucks and the beam pattern will change throughout the various levels. I will let you know if it is discernable on the trail. Of note, LOW setting with 1 light on it is the single bottom led. MED setting with 2 lights on are the upper 2 leds. You can see what I am talking about in the pics. This programming may help the beam pattern stay somewhat balanced... we'll see.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

How is the battery connector on your unit. Mine does not stay together and I have to tape it however, I use a GEO 6.0 on it anyhow.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

bad andy said:


> ...Last, I have some beam shots. (sorry for the bad clarity) Low/Med/Hi - It is as described in the item description, and mentioned in the above posts. The levels coordinate with how many lights are on. low = 1, med = 2, high = 3. Some people have mentioned how this sucks and the beam pattern will change throughout the various levels. I will let you know if it is discernable on the trail. Of note, LOW setting with 1 light on it is the single bottom led. MED setting with 2 lights on are the upper 2 leds. You can see what I am talking about in the pics. This programming may help the beam pattern stay somewhat balanced... we'll see.


Thanks *bad andy* for the photos...Last night I was speculating on which LED's would light for each of the modes. I am glad to see that at least they picked the right configuration of LEDs for each of the 3 modes. I agree with you, that should help eliminate beam pattern anomalies.

Dang it, it does look big. I suppose mounting in the center will help keep it balanced. My mount is a little like yours but lower profile. I will likely have to mount it higher than I usual like. Depending on how I like it, if the lamp adds extra throw to to the helmet I might consider other ways to mount it.

I second the request....what goes with the connectors? Are they working as intended?


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Well first ride on the light was very successful. I don't know if the battery got a full charge before heading out, I was only able to have it on the charger for a few hours. Plus I don't know how much charge the battery had in it to begin with. I did use the light for about 1.5-2 hours in high last night and it was not hot at all, warm maybe. Ambient temp last night was in the 60s (F) so I guess that means it's fairly under driven? In contrast my 808 was it's usual warmth/semi-hot temp, much hotter in comparison to the 3x XML. I don't know if the switch light indicates battery charge at all, but it did appear sort of green-yellow when I finished the ride. I'll have to monitor that more closely during future rides.

The beam pattern was great. I don't have much to compare against to determine if it is more spotty/floody but in comparison with the 808 it was just simply overall a bigger lighted area. If it is considered a spot, then it's a huge spot. I can say I had no trouble seeing anything. Especially on high. My buddy was bumming when I told him I paid $60, in comparison to his Niterider setup that cost at least 3x as much. I'll try to shoot some real world pics during future rides.

I didn't notice the weight on my helmet too much. Though my helmet really fits well to my head. I can get a tight but comfortable fit, so that may help the stability overall.

The size of the headlamp is a little bigger than my 808. Not tremendously though. I'll try to snap some side by side pics later.

As for the plugs - I had no problem. They are definitely not as tight as my magicshine cables. These are straight plugs. my MS cables have an extra bump at the connecter to ensure a tighter fit. It felt to me that these cables, while working fine for now, primarily rely on the metal parts' connection vs. the rubber shielding to hold together. If so, future wear might cause this connection to become looser? We'll see. I may explore ways to get a tighter fit. I can be resourceful sometimes 

Overall very pleased so far.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

bad andy said:


> Some people complain about the low amp charger but I don't find it a big deal. I've got my original magicshine 1.8amp charger and can use that if I'm in a hurry, or really go at the battery with my R/C charger if I'm in a real hurry.


Did you try it with the Magicshine charger?

My SkyRay looks like it comes with the same charger, same shape and power output, and my SkyRay battery has a plug that is incompatible with my Magicshine charger.

I was thinking the same thing as you. Instead of charging at 1A, I could charge at 1.8A with the Magicshine charger. It would also mean finding replacement batteries would be easy. I'm disappointed on both counts.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

leaftye said:


> Did you try it with the Magicshine charger?
> 
> My SkyRay looks like it comes with the same charger, same shape and power output, and my SkyRay battery has a plug that is incompatible with my Magicshine charger.
> 
> I was thinking the same thing as you. Instead of charging at 1A, I could charge at 1.8A with the Magicshine charger. It would also mean finding replacement batteries would be easy. I'm disappointed on both counts.


I did actually, but not for an extended period of time. I plugged the new headlamp into the ms charger and it fit fine, and the light in the charger lit up. I am presuming it would charge fine, but I haven't really tested.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks for that. I'm sure it'd work.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Okay, got mine today. My first impression: For the money I can't complain. At first glance the beam pattern looks wider than I expected. It reminds me of the Bikeray IV a bit only it's brighter on high. Judging from the wall pattern it's not the thrower I was hoping for but should make a pretty good bar lamp. It does appear to have pretty good spill although there are some minor rings towards the outside of the beam pattern. I doubt they will be noticeable in actual use.

As was already mentioned, the differences in mode output could be better. When in low mode mine has lots of artifacts in the beam pattern along with a slight greenish tint right in the center. Likely won't be too noticeable in actual use but I have yet to use it. When you switch to medium there is a major change and the lamp is very bright. Gone are the imperfections. Little if any change at all when switching to high which is a little disappointing. 

Other things I noticed: I don't think the back comes off as the rear of the light appears seamless. Those little silver things around the back are just dimples that are drilled into the surface of the rear ( for looks I suppose ). The wire exits out the back of the lamp and is quite long. Twice as long as other lamps. If you use this as a bar lamp you will definitely have to coil the wire up to get it out of the way. No wire extension is included and while the wire from the lamp is long it is not long enough to reach from the helmet to your back pack. The plugs are just as the others have said, they are a bit loose but they work. Comparing them to standard plugs the metal sleeve on the male plug is about 3-4mm shorter. For a snugger fit I might wrap some electrical tape around the plastic on the male plug. That should give it a tighter fit.

After I give it a test spin tonight I'll likely have more to say about it. What I really what to know at this point is how far it will throw on the bars. The Bikeray IV barely got to 100ft. To impress me this lamp will have to have a usable reach to at least 150 ft.
I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*triple XM-L Clone test run*

Well folks I almost hate to post this because a lot of people aren't going to like it. The thing is, "Catman don't like to lie". That said, I'm very impressed with this lamp. I did notice that while using the low setting that I can detect imperfections in the beam pattern. To be honest though I really did have to LOOK hard to see them. I doubt most people would even notice. Of course once you go up a level all of that goes away. The low mode looks to be about 450-500 lumen to my eyes and does carry quite a ways. The next two levels are very impressive considering how much the lamp cost. While there is not that much difference between mid and high you get a very nice beam pattern. Light goes almost everywhere. Nice wide spill close in and a decent amount of light in the distance. Almost perfect for the bars.

On my short ride I stopped in a couple places and tried to compare the throw to the Gloworm X2 I was using on the helmet. Although i didn't pace out the distance, I think I can safely say that it throws beyond 100ft. I say that because I really couldn't notice too much difference between the two for how far they were throwing so I suppose that says a lot for the Tri-Clone. If I had to complain about something it would be the mode set-up. The Tri-Clone has no press/hold turn off function. To turn it off you have to cycle through the modes including the flash. While it does have a nice "clicky" button switch it is somewhat of a pain having to cycle through the extra modes.

On the up side, I have to admit that I really liked the quality of the light coming out the front ( for the upper modes ) There was a particular "Crispness" to the light that I found pleasing. I'm not really sure why that is but it might have something to do with the fact that it is a "reflector based lamp". I found the tint and quality of the light very pleasing to the eye. On the way back I used both lamps and Wow...sure did make an awesome combo!

Tomorrow I'll try to get a run time test done if I don't do another ride. ( tomorrow will be warmer..:ihih: )...


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> I'm very impressed with this lamp.


Me too.
I bought mine from 
3800Lm 3X CREE XM-L T6 LED LED Headlight Headlamp Bicycle Bike Light | eBay



> The low mode looks to be about 450-500 lumen to my eyes and does carry quite a ways. The next two levels are very impressive considering how much the lamp cost.


I measured the battery current draw in my 3x XM-L light:
1: 0,62A (5W)
2: 1,67A (13W)
3: 1,95A (19W)

From this one can guestimate lumens to:
600/1400/1800 (or so)



> While there is not that much difference between mid and high you get a very nice beam pattern. Light goes almost everywhere. Nice wide spill close in and a decent amount of light in the distance. Almost perfect for the bars.


I have so far only done one ride with my 3x XM-L light.
I mounted it on the bars next to my Magicshine MJ-856 and switched between the lights during the ride.
I like the 3x XM-L light better!
It is slightly brighter and have a more pronounced 'hot spot'.

With a Magicshine MJ-808E as a helmetlight the midlevel on the 3x XM-L light, and the 50% level on the MJ-856, is more then enough light for my type of riding.

For the price this is an awsome light. The complete light, incl shipping to Sweden, is cheaper then what a MS-battery sells for here in Sweden!

But I will only use this light for MTB-riding.
For road riding, and commuting, I will use my, modified, Philips light
Philips LED bike light - Page 3


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HakanC said:


> ....I measured the battery current draw in my 3x XM-L light:
> 1: 0,62A (5W)
> 2: 1,67A (13W)
> 3: 1,95A (19W)
> ...


I'll be doing doing a current measurement as well. I don't know if I would go as far to say it outputs 1800 lumen but it is bright and compares very well to the duel emitter Gloworm X2. _It would be nice if one of the vendors took this lamp and created a "Deluxe" version ( one half amp more current for the high, change the strobe to a slower flash and put it in a sub menu and then include a push/hold off function with memory ) With those added features ( which really are just basic stuff ) I'd pay another $30 to $40._

As your measurements show there is not too much difference in the current draw between mid level and high. I think if we can get two hours of run time out of the supplied battery on high we've gotten more than our money's worth.

In the mean time this lamp is a very good value as long as it holds up. For the novice MTB'er looking for an inexpensive bar lamp with a decent output this could be your ticket to ride. Just keep in mind it is a basic "no frills" lamp. Get a MS 808E or Xeccon S-12 for the helmet ( or another spot oriented clone ) and you will have a combo set-up that has the amount of light that others spent 3X as much for.


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## srotblat (Jul 21, 2012)

edit: found answer regarding mounting


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Curent output for Tri-Clone*

I tested mine with the supplied battery freshly charged. Here's what I got:



> Low: ....... 0.62 A
> 
> Medium:...2.08 A
> 
> High: .......2.30 A


Just keep in mind that this doesn't account for voltage sag after the battery has run a while. All things considered, this ain't bad. I'm amazed that the low level is only 0.62A
I say that because it's pretty bright for only drawing that much current. Believe me if the low output was too low I would of let you know. At that level I'm thinking it might run 12 hrs on low if this is a standard 4400mAh battery. I haven't done a run time test yet on high but my guess is that it should run maybe 2.5hr. On medium maybe 2.75hr. If you own a four cell set-up with premium Panasonic 3100mAh cells maybe over 3hrs.


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> If you own a four cell set-up with premium Panasonic 3100mAh cells maybe over 3hrs.


Cat-man-do, could I easily make myself such a four cell set-up? Anything else than soldering the cells together?

Thanks

Johnnydrz


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Getting right at 3hrs on high on my 6.0 GEO battery.

Doesn't really look like 1800 lumens on high. More like 1200 and medium like 900, maybe a bit more.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Johnnydrz said:


> Cat-man-do, could I easily make myself such a four cell set-up? Anything else than soldering the cells together?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Johnnydrz


If I were going to make my own pack I'd consider the 18650 holders from BatterySpace. These include a PCB ( on each set ) for protection. I'd use two of these two cell holders, connect them in parallel and use the Panasonic 3400 unprotected cells. They do make a 4-cell version but I like a square pack rather than a long flat pack.

Option two: Yes, you could solder up your own. Big plus if you know how to do that. Panasonic cells with tabs are available. Even better if you know how to wire up your own *PCB. *BatterySpace sells them as well I believe.

You might want to check out the DIY forum for more info on how to build your own battery pack.


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## milnerpt (Dec 7, 2008)

Everyone talks about a 6.0 GEO battery. Im late to the show of lighting and batteries, and not sure if I can wrap my head around all the ins and outs of them.... however generally, people talk about their 6.0 GEO batteries...

anyhow, if the supplied 4400mA battery that is supplied is kinda 'iffy', and Im hesitant to try to fabricate my own, is there a manufactured alternative thats known as a quality, value battery? (like it seems the magicshine series are to lights?)


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

Thanks Cat-man-do, I'll go with the first option, easier to charge individual cells.

Cheers,

Johnnydrz


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

We're having more Indian Summer here in the Bay Area. It was around 80 degrees last night on our ride. I decided to crank this up on a 20 minute climb, no wind ,etc. It didn't get hot. Yeah, it did get warm but never got hot which leads me to believe it's being driven properly and dissipates heat fairly well.

Just an FYI for you desert nite riders.

So far no issues w/ this 50 dollar light.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

I can also chime in on temp. So far on a number of rides in upper 50s/low 60s (F) in the northeast and the light has yet to get hot. Not even really warm. Seems like a very solid performing light so far.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

milnerpt said:


> Everyone talks about a 6.0 GEO battery. Im late to the show of lighting and batteries, and not sure if I can wrap my head around all the ins and outs of them.... however generally, people talk about their 6.0 GEO batteries...
> 
> anyhow, if the supplied 4400mA battery that is supplied is kinda 'iffy', and Im hesitant to try to fabricate my own, is there a manufactured alternative thats known as a quality, value battery? (like it seems the magicshine series are to lights?)


Supposedly some battery packs have good cells in them.

I'm thinking I'd rather buy a 4 cell PCB from batteryspace and put together a battery pack with 26650 cells. The downside is having to buy half a dozen PCB's to meet the minimum order requirement.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Milnerpt

The batteries we speak of, GEO are replacement batteries for a recall from early Magicshine lights sold by GEOMANGEAR. GEO is out of business but he orchestrated a recall of a potentially dangerous battery.

GEO offered a replacement 4.4ah battery which was taking a year to get so he offered a better 6.0ah battery for $25 which was a real good deal as this battery is a good quality battery. The retail on this battery was 85 and that's probably what you would pay for a good quality real 6.0ah battery.

At this point, if I were you, I would simply use the supplied battery and maybe buy another on Ebay, $18 if you need any more run time. I would not go out and pay 85 for a battery for a cheap light system though this light seems to work real well.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

mb323323 said:


> At this point, if I were you, I would simply use the supplied battery and maybe buy another on Ebay, $18 if you need any more run time. I would not go out and pay 85 for a battery for a cheap light system though this light seems to work real well.


The battery pack is compatible with other light systems. An adapter or new plugs will increase compatibility. So a good battery pack can be a better value. Even if it's not used with other lights, I think the battery is the most important part of the light system, at least with the way I ride.


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## Infinity123 (Dec 11, 2009)

Well, my P7 Magicshine lighthead/charger does not fit into the 3xXM-L battery. The MS plug is a little bit too wide.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> Getting right at 3hrs on high on my 6.0 GEO battery.
> 
> *Doesn't really look like 1800 lumens on high. More like 1200 and medium like 900, maybe a bit more.*


*
*
I did a lux comparison yesterday and I have to agree, it is not anything like 1800 lumen.
I compared it to my Gloworm X2 and surprisingly both out put almost the same amount of light. Keep in mind a lux read out is not the same thing as lumen read out but it helps when doing basic comparisons.

When I get a chance I'm going to do a lux reading from 45° off camber. This should help me judge how well the lamps compare as to total flood and spill. Just judging from what my eyes are seeing, with the Gloworm using spot/flood set-up the beam patterns are almost the same.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I did another quickie ride tonight using the tri-clone as a bar light. Basically works pretty good as far as supplying a decent amount of light. Was having some problems with some of the lamps minor features. Changing modes with the Tri-clone on the bars is not the easiest thing to do. I hate having to cycle through all the extra modes ( flash and off ) Either that or I must be spoiled from using my Gloworm X2 with remote. One thing is certain, next ride is Gloworm on the bars. :thumbsup:

Another issue I had was that the bar mount screw had gotten a bit too loose while I was riding. While on the ride the lamp kept swiveling towards the right which was kind of a nuisance. On the plus side it means you can adjust the lamp angle a bit if you chose to do so. When I got home I tightened it up so it shouldn't move anymore ( unless I want it to ). 

Just before leaving for the ride I had a problem with the battery bag. Once again it seems the Chinese don't think that the battery bag is so important. I say that because I've had this same problems with other Chinese made bike set-ups. Namely, the strap buckles on the battery bags are VERY poorly attached. If you tighten them real tight the buckle strap will pull right off the bag ( or the plastic buckle itself will break ). Not the kind of thing you want to happen if you're mounting the battery somewhere back in the woods. :nono: Luckily for me I had another piece of Velcro attached to my helmet that usually holds my helmet torch. Since I was running the Xeccon X-12 on the helmet I didn't need the velcro so I took it off and found a way to make it hold the battery bag to the upper tube. Dang, I hate when stuff like this happens ( just before it starts to get dark ) 

For the record: If you have a battery bag from a Chinese manufacture that uses the plastic buckles you might want to carry a 12" length of Velcro with you, just in case. I had the same thing happen with a Bikeray battery bag. At least the BR bag had a wider/longer length of Velcro on it that allowed me to wrap the strap around the whole battery bag even after the buckle broke. I've also had the velcro buckle straps break on the cheap rubber torch mounts...yep stuff happens.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Cat, I'm sure you're already familiar with these, but I'll post them for those that aren't.

I've recently bought a few of the bags from Action LED. They aren't the highest quality, but they're cheap as hell, and they do have two straps and the straps are longer. 
The battery stays in place on my frame much better then with the stock battery bags.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> I hate having to cycle through all the extra modes ( flash and off )


Having off in the regular mode cycle shouldn't exist in a bike light. That should require a longer button press, another button, or some other way to access it. A light should not turn off on the way to the high mode.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

MB, Cat, Bad Andy, HankanC

Thanks for the great information.

So how are the runtimes with this light? 4400ah/6400ah battery? Other than post 8, has anyone done some beam shot comparisons? Low, medium, high and compared to other lights you have? I'm thinking of ordering two, one for the bar and one for the helmet. Might be heavy, but it's probably better than the NR Storm that I've used as a helmet light for the past 10 or so years. Also, it's my understanding that the Magicshine cables/chargers and batteries appear to be compatible. Am I safe to assume that the MS extension cable will work to extend the length from helmet to jersey pocket?

Looks at this one on ebay.

4000 Lm 3x CREE XM-L T6 LED Bicycle bike HeadLight Rear Light Headlamp Lamp 25W | eBay

And I agree, it's a shame they haven't figured out the button sequence. Push and hold for two seconds to power off, button clicking for low med and high and perhaps press and hold for five for strobe. Though, for $50 a light, I think it will be hard to complain.

Thanks!


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Mr.Grumpy said:


> MB, Cat, Bad Andy, HankanC
> 
> Thanks for the great information.
> 
> ...


Sorry I can't help on most counts here. My rides are generally under 2 hours, and am only turning the lights on when it gets dark enough. No beam shot comparison's either. My MS808 is the p7 model and I've put the wide angle lense in there. That would be like comparing apples and tuna fish sandwiches. It does appear all my MS gear is compatible with this light, though I've stuck to keeping each's battery with charger combo together, for now. My MS extension cable fits too, though is of no need. There's plenty of cable hanging off the lamp and battery that I can stash the battery in my backpack. As for the light you linked to on eBay... I will be able to chime in on that one too - as soon as I've gotten mine.  I've been a little nuts this year buying the chinese knockoffs. If this one is as good as the other 3x I have I'll be happy. If it's better I'll be ecstatic. 8)


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Grumpy

Before you think they are all compatible, they are actually not all compatible. I tried the clone 3 XML light head w/ a new MS battery and the connectors were different even though they look similar. The clone connectors do all appear to be the same as my clones are compatible.

As far as run time, I haven't tried the supplied battery yet but I am consistently running around 3 hours on high w/ a 6.0 GEO battery which is a better quality battery I'm sure. I'd guess a 2hr run time to be safe. Maybe Cat has tested this.

I would not use this on the helmet. It's just a bit too heavy and the smaller 1 XML is plenty w/ a spot beam along w/ this. By the way, medium is probably all anybody will really ever need w/ the helmet clone on high.

MB


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> ....As far as run time, I haven't tried the supplied battery yet but I am consistently running around 3 hours on high w/ a 6.0 GEO battery which is a better quality battery I'm sure. I'd guess a 2hr run time to be safe. Maybe Cat has tested this...
> 
> MB


I haven't tested it yet but ball-parking the run time I would think 2hrs or just under. If it gets over 2hr on high I would be thrilled. Maybe this weekend I'll give it test run. For the record, doing battery run time tests are a drag.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

bad andy said:


> Well mine has arrived. Happy to say, out of the box, it works! - which is good. I should be able to test tonight and provide some real world thoughts on this light.
> 
> I purchased this version, which claimed to have a 6400mah battery: 3800 Lum 3x Cree XM-L XML T6 LED HeadLamp Headlight Bicycle Lamp Bike Car Light | eBay
> 
> ...


Well I just purchased this, hope it works as my first foray into night riding...........thanks for the review...........


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Thanks for the replies.

The only reason I asked about the MS compatibility is for additional cable length. I've only so far found MS cables as an extension. Whatever light I get that I run on the helmet it will have to be long enough to go from the helmet to a jersey pocket, not a backpack/camel-back.

Perhaps I'll try one of those mini cree things floating around for the helmet and this 3x Cree on the bar.

Mini CREE LED XML XM-L T6 LED 1600Lm Bicycle Light Bike Lamp HeadLight headLamp | eBay

Do these knock off light connectors have a name or type? I know RC land has mini deans, deans, bullet, xt60 etc.

Thoughts?
Thanks!


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Hey Cat.



> Maybe this weekend I'll give it test run. For the record, doing battery run time tests are a drag


Ya, I would think so! How about a photocell wired in to a plug with a digital clock attached. Record the time you turn the light on, face it at the photocell and go watch a movie(perhaps LOTR extended). When the light burns out the photocell switches the plug on and the timer begins. When you return (assuming the light ran dry) take note of the blinking time on the digital clock. Do some math and it should be a good unattended test for run time.

Thoughts?

If I recall, some digital clocks flash 12 forever while some flash but advance the time.

I'm sure there are better tools but this could be done for cheap!


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Mr.Grumpy said:


> ... How about a photocell wired in to a plug with a digital clock attached


I think I've got a better solution than that. Pick up a low end Canon point and shoot that is CHDK compatible. CHDK is an alternative firmware, loaded from the card when the camera is tuned on, if the "lock" on the SD card is tuned on. I got a "last year's model" camera for $60. Even full price they are $80ish.

CHDK has a host of features. One of them is an intervalometer script. You set how often you want it to take a pic. You could either turn on the time/date stamp in the picture or use the file date/time as your reference. Set the script to shoot every minute or 30 sec, and to run for say 4 hrs. You could flip through the pics and see when the light went out. It could also be useful in those temperature monitoring setups, if the readout was in the picture.

Maybe the Motion script might be better. When something changes in the camera's field of view, it takes a pic. You can set the sensitivity. I'd bet it would note when the light dimmed down, and probably even when the colours change on the back button. I think I'm gonna have to try it to see how well it works. On some of the faster cameras people even use it to take pictures of lightening.

CHDK is a little geeky, and not exactly intuitive. It gives you a ridiculous amount of control, and extra features on a bottom end point and shoot.

I used the motion script when my elderly cat was reaching the end of her days. I set it to watch her dish to see if/how often she drank or ate. Of course because the camera would make a noise whenever it focused and took a picture, I got many of her looking right into the lens. Brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. But it did work very well.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Runtime test can be less of a pain when using a video camera on low resolution mode - Colleen does this too. It saves time doing runtime test.

Use any camera with video mode or GoPro type cameras. Set it to low res because that will require less memory. A decent SD card should get you over 4 hours on low res.

Set the camera behind the light head so you can see the switch/indicator button, with a clock off angle in front of a fan set about a foot away from the light head. You may have the temperature/lux reader on the other side of the clock - all within the video frame. 

Check the time. Turn on the temp/lux reader. Start recording. Turn on the light and fan. Go watch TV, sign in to mtbr or go to sleep.

Replay the video. While holding down the video player marker, dragging it forward and backward will tell:
- lux reading from start to finish
- temperature rise rate and temperature plateau
- thermal shutdown (and restart time if any) if no airflow was introduced
- at what times the indicator changed colors
- whether there was thermal stepdown or brightness change (drag the marker right to left and back again if you do not have a lux meter. You will catch variations better this way)
- and the time the light went off

Leonard


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Ian_C and Xeccon.

Both very good points. Also a laptop/workstation with a webcam will do!


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

I'm looking for a bike light (my first one eheh) as the winter as arrived and days are now shorter... I will be riding mainly in the street with some cars and some off road as well, but nothing like mountain biking all alone into the deep woods. 
Having said that, does this light works for me? I've read through the 3 pages already and i see *HakanC * does not recommends this for road biking. So, *HakanC*, do you think i can mod this light to adjust it to road biking? User *Infinity123* posted on another topic he modded it not to blind people:
gratisimage.dk/image-48C7_508A7582.jpg
I think i will do the same as i will have only this light for now.

One more thing: it is not waterproof right? Neither is the battery case, right? If i do get this lamp should i put the battery case inside a water balloon (those little ones) like i've read somewhere?

Thank you all, this forum has really helped me out.


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## Infinity123 (Dec 11, 2009)

PedroDank said:


> One more thing: it is not waterproof right? Neither is the battery case, right?


The light head is pretty Waterproff. The batterypack is not. I have wrapped it in a plastic bag and taped it shut. But there are of course other ways to deal with this matter.










Here´s a little info on the cap on my light:
Commuting lights - Mtbr Forums












PedroDank said:


> Do you use the original battery? If so, for how long does this thing run on medium. Also, do you ride in the rain?


Q1: Yes, Q2: I don´t know (2-3 hours?), Q3: No


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Thanks Infinity123! 
I guess I've now found my bike light.  Will try to add a cap like that too. Shouldn't it be reflective, though? I see you made it out of a plastic bag...

Also, anyone with this wide angle lens? action-led-lights.com/collections/accessories/products/wide-angle-lens ?

Going to buy the bike light from ebay.com/itm/3X-CREE-XM-L-T6-LED-3800Lm-LED-Headlight-Headlamp-Bicycle-Bike-Light-/251152598491?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a79dc85db in 3 or 4 days.


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## Infinity123 (Dec 11, 2009)

PedroDank said:


> Shouldn't it be reflective, though? I see you made it out of a plastic bag...


Sure, if you want to. The white plastic works fine for me.

I´m not sure the wide angle lens would work in a 3x LED design? However, you don´t need it. The 3X XM-L has a lovely floody light:thumbsup:.
Could you please use the "link" or "picture" button when you post a link/picture in a message? It would make it a lot easier for the rest of us, thanks.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Yeah, they probably would not. I just saw a lot of pics of users modifying their MS with these wide angle lenses and the result is jut amazing. See here: forums.mtbr.com/8859193-post1.html But if you say it is good enough for commuting... Also, with this wide angle lens, i guess it would hurt pedestrians and drivers eyes, right? Anyway, i will how it is first and will decide later, after some tests ,if i need to mod it or not (adding the cap).
About the images and links, I would if i could. :\ I dont have 10 posts yet, that is why i cant post links and images...

Anyone else using this kind of cap? If i do decide to make one, i think it would be better to cover the inside of the plastic with an aluminum foil... At least the light won't be "lost"...

I hope i get it right at the first time, because i can't really spend that much on bike lights now.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Hey!

So I've ordered two different systems and I'll report back once I receive them. I'll try and do some testing/beam shots but we'll see!

4000 Lm 3x CREE XM-L T6 LED Bicycle bike HeadLight Rear Light Headlamp Lamp 25W | eBay

Mini CREE LED XML XM-L T6 LED 1600Lm Bicycle Light Bike Lamp HeadLight headLamp | eBay


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Grump

Really curious about that mini. Maybe you can post a pict next to the 3XML to see size difference.

Beam shot would be great too.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Mb,

Will do what I can. Now the wait... 2ish weeks to land.

Only three more posts and I can post links and pictures. How exciting!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Infinity123;9825965 The white plastic works fine for me.
[IMG said:


> https://www.gratisimage.dk/image-48C7_508A7582.jpg[/IMG]
> 
> .


*Infinity*...I like the white hood for the tri-clone. I know you made this for road use ( right? ) but I think it will help when Mt. biking too. I've noticed that the Tri-clone sends a lot of light upward into the trees. Too much in my opinion. You might try lining the underside of the hood with some aluminum foil as that may return more of the light back down towards the trail. I might try my hand at this as well to see how well it might work.


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

I've ordered 2 of these lights, and I also intend to try some type of "hood" to control the beam. Please continue posting your results with these types of mods, I find this very interesting!

Johnnydrz


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

I've been watching this thread. I just don't have $250 or $300 for a lighting system right now. I've been looking at a mini light for a headlamp that supposedly has an 8800 maH battery pack. I figure if I get one of the XM-L x3 clones I could switch batteries and have a bit longer life. I can't post a link to the light yet though.

What do ya think.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Hey Ironbrewer.

You can't post links until you've posted ten times. Hint, if you drop the www from the link, you can, they just aren't clickable. As for if the battery is compatible, assuming the voltage is the same, the only problem I can see is if the connector is the same.


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## qdave (Jun 5, 2007)

I'm not so sure about a 8800mah battery pack (at 8.4v). If it's a typical 4 cell pack (most are), then it is realistically 4400mah, or sometimes 5200mah (but unlikely for a Chinese cell pack).


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

So the small one I was thinking of getting is this one

ebay.com/itm/140842626907?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

but I noticed the voltage is 4.2. 

The XM-L 3x I want to get is this one 

ebay.com/itm/261115431796?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

So I guess the batteries won't be compatible.

I figure having the small one on my helmet and the big one on my bars will be a good combination.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

qdave said:


> I'm not so sure about a 8800mah battery pack (at 8.4v). If it's a typical 4 cell pack (most are), then it is realistically 4400mah, or sometimes 5200mah (but unlikely for a Chinese cell pack).


Exactly. I really don't understand that 8800mAh battery... I did found a 6400mAh though, but never 8800mAh. I'm going to order it anyway...


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I don't even think they understand sometimes what they are advertising. Yeah, that is a standard 4400mah pack. Don't expect anything else.

Cat or others, my clone 3 up is doing something weird. It works, no problem but when I turn it up from low to medium, I can see one of the LED's is bright and the other dim for a few seconds. Then the other LED brightens up as well. Only does this on medium.

What do you think the issue might be. I was hoping to get at least a season out of this. Still works though.

MB


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Isn't it possible that it's an eight cell battery to get 8800mah? Basically two 4400 mah packs wired in parallel? What is the operating voltage on these lights? I saw the amp usage earlier in the thread and the chargers are all 8.4 volts. RC two cell batteries if I recall are 7.4 volts but charge at 8.4. Are these batteries the same? If the lights are running at 7.4 volts operational, buy some RC two cells hardcase batteries from hobbyking throw in a better charger (balancing) and you are laughing. Turnigy batteries have served me well!

Turnigy 5200mAh 2S 30C Hard-Case Car Lipo Pack (USA Warehouse)
IMAX B6 Charger/Discharger 1-6 Cells (GENUINE)

Cat
Low: ....... 0.62 A
Medium:...2.08 A
High: .......2.30 A

HakanC
0,62A (5W)
2: 1,67A (13W)
3: 1,95A (19W)


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> ....Cat or others, my clone 3 up is doing something weird. It works, no problem but when I turn it up from low to medium, I can see one of the LED's is bright and the other dim for a few seconds. Then the other LED brightens up as well. Only does this on medium.
> 
> What do you think the issue might be. I was hoping to get at least a season out of this. Still works though.
> 
> MB


Well at least it still works. It could be something as simple as a bad soldered joint on one of the wires going to the emitter. When it heats up it expands and makes better contact. That's just one possibility.

I'm still trying to figure out how you noticed that. Not real easy to look into the front of one of these lamps when they're on. Then again I noticed one time that a single die on a P-7 emitter had gone out on one of my torches. That was on low mode though with a half dead battery. 

I'm laughing now because I just got finished testing mine by using some dark yellow paper as a filter. Now I'm seeing spots in front of my eyes. :lol:


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

ironbrewer said:


> I've been watching this thread. I just don't have $250 or $300 for a lighting system right now. I've been looking at a mini light for a headlamp that supposedly has an 8800 maH battery pack. I figure if I get one of the XM-L x3 clones I could switch batteries and have a bit longer life. I can't post a link to the light yet though.
> 
> What do ya think.


Hey. The one you linked looks like the typical magic shine clone with a blue casing and hopefully a higher capacity battery. Won't know until you try it. For the helmet I went with the following eBay item.

Mini CREE LED XML XM-L T6 LED 1600Lm Bicycle Light Bike Lamp HeadLight headLamp | eBay

For the bars I went with the same 3x xml light you linked to, same seller (rabbit).

I should see them in a couple of weeks and ill report back! So, if you can wait...


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

The 6400mah packs you see advertised...don't exist...not on lights at that price level... Panasonic now has a 3200mah 18650 cell, but they cost like $10 EACH retail. You're not going to find a battery pack with 4 of them on a $50 buy-it-now light. Those batteries are the standard 4400mah ones practically everyone uses because the 2200mah cells are ridiculously cheap and common now. The battery that magicshine uses with the 880 lamp is 6 of those cells as 2S3P configured for a 6600mah pack. Now it is possible to make a 8800 pack using a 1S4P configuration to the battery, and for a single LED lamp that's certainly plausible since they need at most 3.3V to drive the LED at maximum current. In fact, I have a XML head/helmet lamp that uses a holder on the back of the mount to hold a pair of individual 18650 cells running in a 1S2P configuration, and in fact will operate with just a single cell in either holder space. 

The problem with all these lights is you basically need to make a testing circuit wire to actually measure the current draw when its running. On LED flashlights this is simple because you can remove the end cap / switch, and then just jump the circuit together with the multimeter touching one lead to the negative terminal of the battery and the other lead to the flashlight body someplace where exposed/unannodized metal is. On one of my single XML flashlights, at full power its drawing 2 Amps, which going off cree's chart for the LED gives about 690 lumens. However I have a supposedly triple XML flashlight that uses two 18650 cells in series, and at MAXIMUM power its pulling a mere 1 amp. With lights with battery packs, you'll need to sacrifice a wire, preferably something like one of the 1 meter extension wires used for helmet setups, cutting it apart, then joining the positive or negative wires back together with an insulated butt connector (so you can't accidently short the battery), and then putting connectors on the other matching wires with enough of a gap. You'll then touch the multimeter leads to these connectors to bridge the circuit and measure the current.


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## vwchisme (Oct 2, 2011)

I ordered one from the OP link. Received it yesterday and after charging the battery for a couple hours. I plug everything together to try out the light. It powered up, cycled through the settings and it worked. Put the battery pack to charge, tried it this morning and the light did not turn on. I email the seller, see what he says. I will dig into the light after work, any suggestions?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ironbrewer said:


> So the small one I was thinking of getting is this one
> 
> ebay.com/itm/140842626907?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> but I noticed the voltage is 4.2.


To eliminate the confusion I took a look at this. Yes,* the battery voltage is 4.2 volts.* That means the driver is set-up to run on that voltage. The battery itself is listed as 8800mah. Likely four 2.2mAh cells in parallel. Basically this is almost the same as a 7.2 volt 4400mAh battery ( 2S/2P ). *The real issue that determines run time is the watt/hr rating and how hard the emitter is being driven.* In a nut shell expect it to have the same run time as the 7.2 volt 4400mAh batteries ( all things being equal ...ie...emitter/current level )

Whether or not this lamp is compatible with a 7.2 volt battery is questionable. Hard to argue with the price.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

vwchisme said:


> I ordered one from the OP link. Received it yesterday and after charging the battery for a couple hours. I plug everything together to try out the light. It powered up, cycled through the settings and it worked. Put the battery pack to charge, tried it this morning and the light did not turn on. I email the seller, see what he says. I will dig into the light after work, any suggestions?


You might have an intermittent short or break in a plug wire. Plug the battery back into the charger to re-set the battery. Then try the light again. If it works then you likely have the issue I suggested.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Yeah, I was just going by the picture which looks exactly like (size in pict) a 4.4ah typical battery. An 8.8 ah battery would be twice the size. Hard to tell in a photo tho.


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## vwchisme (Oct 2, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> To eliminate the confusion I took a look at this. Yes,* the battery voltage is 4.2 volts.* That means the driver is set-up to run on that voltage. The battery itself is listed as 8800mah. Likely four 2.2mAh cells in parallel. Basically this is almost the same as a 7.2 volt 4400mAh battery ( 2S/2P ). *The real issue that determines run time is the watt/hr rating and how hard the emitter is being driven.* In a nut shell expect it to have the same run time as the 7.2 volt 4400mAh batteries ( all things being equal ...ie...emitter/current level )
> 
> Whether or not this lamp is compatible with a 7.2 volt battery is questionable. Hard to argue with the price.


I'll give it a try when i get home tonight, thanks.


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

Thanks for the replies.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Anyone looking to order, I see dx.com has an actual MagicShine 872 @ 40% off. Not sure when the sale started or when it will end, but at $25 more than a Chinese knock off, it might be worth it. I probably would have bought this if I hadn't just ordered a cheap 3xml already. I have read that the 872 has overheating problems though. No idea. Around here night riding season is cold so I doubt it would be a problem.

MagicShine MJ-872 Waterproof 4-CREE XP-G 4-Mode 1600-Lumen LED Bike Light with Battery Pack Set - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX

Anyways, something to consider...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Mr.Grumpy said:


> Anyone looking to order, I see dx.com has an actual MagicShine 872 @ 40% off. Not sure when the sale started or when it will end, but at $25 more than a Chinese knock off, it might be worth it. * I probably would have bought this if I hadn't just ordered a cheap 3xml already.* I have read that the 872 has overheating problems though. No idea. Around here night riding season is cold so I doubt it would be a problem.
> 
> MagicShine MJ-872 Waterproof 4-CREE XP-G 4-Mode 1600-Lumen LED Bike Light with Battery Pack Set - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX
> 
> Anyways, something to consider...


I'm not saying the 872 can't work as a bar lamp but judging from previous beam shots the Tri-clone lamp you ordered will have a brighter, farther throwing beam pattern. The only advantage I see with the 872 is that you get a mode set-up that you won't have to cycle through strobe or off.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Hey Cat.

One of the guys that rides with us from time to time has a 872, looks pretty good. But at it's regular price of $130ish, it's not worth it. At only $25 more, it closes that gap compared to the $50 3xml. I'm not saying it's better for light, but it *might* be better quality...

Beam shot for MS 872, MS 880, Gemini Olympia
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0105/2052/files/HP-beam-test.gif?902

I'm not getting one, already committed to the Chinese specials!


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## vwchisme (Oct 2, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> You might have an intermittent short or break in a plug wire. Plug the battery back into the charger to re-set the battery. Then try the light again. If it works then you likely have the issue I suggested.


Tried your suggestion and no luck getting it to work. I pulled out my multimeter and measured at the battery plug 8.25v. Next I measured at the headlamp switch exposed leads 0v.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Just for kicks I'm thinking of trying this out. Already have a MJ-872 on the bars, and a Gemini Duo for the helmet, and the MJ-808E it replaced. I'm using the Geo 6.0Ah battery, and think that will be suitable for this light. 

My question is if it will be noticeably brighter than the MJ-872. Anyone have experience with both of these and can give me a comparison?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

vwchisme said:


> Tried your suggestion and no luck getting it to work. I pulled out my multimeter and measured at the battery plug 8.25v. Next I measured at the headlamp switch exposed leads 0v.


So you managed to disassemble the tri-clone(?)! Well, if you did that you might try measuring the continuity of the wires leading from the light head to the battery (male) plug ( since the battery plugs seem to work you need not worry about the battery side ). ). Using the resistance setting on the multlimeter...measure each lead ( positive and negative ) one at a time. If you get zero resistance than the wire is fine. If you get infinite resistance the wire is bad. If one wire is bad it would be best just to replace the whole plug and wire assembly to the light head. If this doesn't fix it than something else is wrong and won't be an easy fix.

Anyway, is there a way you can show a photo of what you're dealing with? Details on how you got this apart would be great. I've thought about taking mine apart but I won't do that if it still works.


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## vwchisme (Oct 2, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> So you managed to disassemble the tri-clone(?)!


I was going to disassemble, but the seller is going to replace the light. Attached is a picture of the area i was measuring for voltage.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

vwchisme said:


> I was going to disassemble, but the seller is going to replace the light. Attached is a picture of the area i was measuring for voltage.


 Very interesting. So it looks like the pill that holds the driver/switch assembly is attached to the part that has the LED's mounted. Since they both look like they are attached pretty securely it does help explain why the lamp seems to have a good ability to sink heat. Definitely doesn't look like you can access the connections to the driver.  At least the seller is going to replace so that is good. All things considered, I think it would of been better to contact the seller first before disassembling the light. 

Anyway, thanks for the photos. At least I know that if something goes wrong with mine trying to fix it by disassembling is pretty much a lost cause unless I could gain access to the driver. Now that I know what the internals look like I know not to try messing with a tear down.


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## vwchisme (Oct 2, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> At least the seller is going to replace so that is good. All things considered, I think it would of been better to contact the seller first before disassembling the light.


Having purchase items from DX and there lack of customer service with responding to issues :madman:. I figured i was going to get the same treatment from the eBay seller, since he's in China and the language barrier. Only time will tell if I'm made whole, but it's a step in the right direction.


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

I purchased mine on September 26th, marked shipped on Spetember 28th. According to HK Post it was shipped on October 26th, a month later! Seller has all sorts of explanations from 10-day national holidays, to vote for new prime minister and so on. 

Seller advises if the light will not arrive by November 15th, they will resend or issue a refound. Problem is I can report it to ebay by November 9th, otherwise its not their problem. 

Anyone else has/had similar issue?

Chris.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

krzysiekmz said:


> I purchased mine on September 26th, marked shipped on Spetember 28th. According to HK Post it was shipped on October 26th, a month later! Seller has all sorts of explanations from 10-day national holidays, to vote for new prime minister and so on.
> 
> Seller advises if the light will not arrive by November 15th, they will resend or issue a refound. Problem is I can report it to ebay by November 9th, otherwise its not their problem.
> 
> ...


Hi Chris, I mentioned this last week in another post. Due to security concerns during the Peoples' Congress choosing the new President and Premier, the Chinese Government has banned Li-ion batteries flying out of China for a month - they do not want Li-ion airborne. Don't ask me about the logic of it but policies are policies. This has been going on for the past 3 weeks. We have not been able to send anything (except lights without batteries) from our China office. It is our understanding Li-ion will be ok to fly after Nov 15th.

Anecdotal evidence suggest some are able to get out. I don't know how they did it though, maybe through HK. Before this was the Autumn Festival holidays which was 10 days. Talk about disruption.

Leonard


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Chris, I'd file a dispute with eBay. If the seller makes good on getting it to you, then eBay will just close the dispute, but at least get the process started so you're covered. 

I paid for mine on Oct 22nd, it shipped the same day. It arrived in the US Nov 2nd, I suspect I'll have it Mon or Tues (Nov 5th - 6th). 
I just hope mine works properly because a friend had me order one for him also.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Xeccon said:


> Hi Chris, I mentioned this last week in another post. Due to security concerns during the Peoples' Congress choosing the new President and Premier, the Chinese Government has banned Li-ion batteries flying out of China for a month - they do not want Li-ion airborne. Don't ask me about the logic of it but policies are policies. This has been going on for the past 3 weeks. We have not been able to send anything (except lights without batteries) from our China office. It is our understanding Li-ion will be ok to fly after Nov 15th.
> 
> Anecdotal evidence suggest some are able to get out. I don't know how they did it though, maybe through HK. Before this was the Autumn Festival holidays which was 10 days. Talk about disruption.
> 
> Leonard


I've heard DHL is still working, or maybe it's DHL Express.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

What seller/store did you people use for your lights?

I used:
rabbitword88 for the 3x CREE XM-L
cyberport888 for the Mini CREE LED XM-L

Neither provided tracking information which I thought seemed odd, but both are marked as shipped.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

leaftye said:


> I've heard DHL is still working, or maybe it's DHL Express.


DHL is sending items from China except items containing Li-ion inside. When we send Li-ion batteries we must declare it. Li-ion stickers will be placed on a parcel by the carrier. Since Li-ion can't fly at this time, it gets held back. If DHL puts them on a plane, they are in breach of a security policy and they won't do that.

Li-ion products that got out in the past 3 weeks are either stock from HK or have been brought across to HK then flew from there. Anyway the backlog will be start clearing in about 10 days from now.


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## Dazzler2409 (Jun 2, 2012)

I have just returned from Shenzen with a canny collection of lights to test:

Tri-clone - £25GBP
Fluxient 1xU2 - 1000 lumens - £60GBP
Fluxient 4xR5 - 1600 lumens - £90GBP
Fluxient 3xXML-U2 3000 lumens - £130GBP

The tri-clone was from the famous Lo Wu Commercial City (home of snide copy tat from Rolex to Ugg boots) the fluxient units where purchased direct from mnfr and prices mentioned are retail not trade as I paid. (Can be purchased as "samples" by punters! Just requires a bit of home work and charm!)

Off out tonight for testing/comparisons. Initial test on tri-clone give 1hr20mins on full power. Not bad. If the mid mode gives pro-rata burn time (min 2hr) then I'll be very happy as has been mentioned previously very little difference in output.

The fluxient units are rightly so much better quality build, light output is magnificent too. The 1xU2 has a tremendous spot beam pattern for perfect helmet use. The 3000 lumen unit is not conceivable brighter than the 1600 lumen unit to justify extra cost and size.

I will post some shots later as very interested to make comparisons as may some of you guys I'm sure? Only iPhone pic's but better than nothing?


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Mine arrived today, just about 2 weeks from time of ordering. They're charging now, so I can't comment on the performance yet, but I thought I'd post some details about the size/weight.

First of all, it's smaller than I expected. I imagined it was going to be larger based on the photos I've seen. So that's a good thing.

The lighthead (w/cord) is 134 grams. Compared to my original Magicshine 808 (with the P7) which is 127.5 grams (w/cord). Since I had read some comments saying this may be too big or heavy for helmet use, I'm pleasantly surprised. I don't think 6.5 grams would be that noticeable of a difference on the helmet.

The lighthead measures 44mm wide compared to the Magicshine 808's 43mm.
The length is about 56mm compared to the MS808's length of about 53mm.

So, very similar size and weight.

I'll post more when I've had a chance to use it on the trail.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

*Heat and battery*

This afternoon after voting I decided to take the 3 XML clone on a good test.

We are having more Indian Summer here in the Bay Area so I thought it would be a good test to see how this would really work in the heat. I had the vendor supplied battery fully charged.

I did the Mt Tam climb. Turned the light on full blast. On several of the climbs, never did the unit got hot. Yes, at one point it did get very warm but that was in the sun on an extended climb. Was about 80 degrees but probably warmer in the sun. The light head does indeed dissipate heat fairly well.

As far as the battery is concerned, not too good. It lasted almost exactly 1 hour on high. Then it went red and literally shut down in about a minute. There's really no warning. FYI!!

I don't know run time on medium and there is not much difference between medium and high so maybe just running this on medium is ticket. I'll report back on run time on medium unless someone else does it before me.

MB


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## Ral83178 (Sep 25, 2007)

Very interesting read here... I have gone from torches to the DX bike lights but am also thinking of going with the Lumintrek TB 1600 as they are local to me in NC

Currently i have the DX XML T6 and bought a lens from Action which really speead the light out if i was going to use as a bar light however I think that I am going to keep it for a helmet light as a spot and get a "better" light bar.

I am up in the air if I should go with this guy (3x XML T6) or the Lumintrek for $125. Sure there is a cost but there is something to be said that they are right around the corner and have a 5 year warranty although i have never has an issue with any of the DX stuff I've gotten over the past 5 years.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

Tom


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ral83178 said:


> Very interesting read here... I have gone from torches to the DX bike lights but am also thinking of going with the Lumintrek TB 1600 as they are local to me in NC
> 
> Currently i have the DX XML T6 and bought a lens from Action which really speead the light out if i was going to use as a bar light however I think that I am going to keep it for a helmet light as a spot and get a "better" light bar.
> 
> ...


My thoughts: I took a look at the TB-1600 from the link that you posted. After reading what the last reviewer had to say I really don't think these are any more better that the MS 872's. And speaking of such I've seen 872 clones in the sub $50 range. The TB-1600 has a choice of optics but from what the last reviewer said the lamp still lacks throw. Still, it does offer a better battery and a five year warranty ( although I doubt they will be in business that long... )

Since the TB-1600 is $125 I'd rather go with an MS 872 / 872 clone which will be less expensive or the 3x XM-L clone which is a much brighter light and can throw further. The battery that comes with the Tri-clone is likely crap but for another $45 you can always buy a spare 5200 mAh battery and use the original as back-up....and still spend less money than if you bought the TB-1600.

Not saying the TB-1600 is crap, I'm sure it will work fine. You did say you had these available to you locally. If that's so I'd ask the dealer if you can demo the light. If you like what you see and it works well with your helmet lamp just go from there. In the long run though the Tri-clone ( 3 x XM-L ) is going to be brighter, have a farther usable beam pattern range and cost less.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

I bought the triclone from eBay. Took only about a week to show up which was nice.

It only worked on low, I took it apart and then it worked on all settings. I found that a wire to a LED was not soldered at all, just touching. It was hard to resolder! There is not much space between the reflector and the baseplate.

After soldering it works well. The reflector is scratched in spots, and the color of the "low" LED is a lot more yellow than the others. It's quite bright, about the same as my Gemini Duo, as well as the beam angle.

The connectors have a different style shroud "seal" than the Magicshine type, so the plugs aren't initially compatible. I cut the shroud off and now I can use the battery pack with the Magicshine light. On the light end I trimmed back the plastic to expose more of the plug, and it plugs in well to the Magicshine battery.

In summary quite a deal, but poor quality control.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I guess if you get one that works out of the box you should be happy.

So far, no issues w/ the light head. However, took it out tonight w/ the supplied battery, Run time on medium was 1:19. No warning this time, it just went out. The 4.4ah battery is not enough for the discharge rate or required amps needed to power this lamp. I think you need a better battery. I'll report back if the times change after several charges but I doubt run times will be better.

So far it's 1 hour on high and 1:19 on medium.

This works much better w/ the GEO 6.0 battery I have. The run time on high was well over 2 hrs w/ that battery.

Still worth the money. The light head, if it works is worth 49 bucks.

MB


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

MB, Thanks for the feedback. It's disappointing to hear that the batteries don't have very good run time. Like you said, as long as the head lasts, we can find other battery options easy enough!


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

Mine arrived yesterday from China - Seller securityingstore on ebay. 
I bought the 3800Lm 3X CREE XM-L T6 LED LED Headlight Headlamp Bicycle Bike Light. I took it out in the back yard last night and it's amazing.......no idea on battery life or anything yet. I paid for it on Oct. 26th so it took about 12 days.......not bad, I may get a second one down the road.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

Can anyone recommend a battery upgrade and where I could purchase??


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

digthemlows said:


> Can anyone recommend a battery upgrade and where I could purchase??


Xeccon 6600mah - $45

Gemini 5200mah - $65

MagicShine 6600mah - $70

Gemini 7800mah (!!!) - $108


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Damn, I knew I should have waited to get longer term reviews on these before purchasing!:cryin:, lol! (J/K, it's not that big of a deal).

So that puts me in the same boat, wanting a longer lasting battery. Twoheadsbrewery listed several, and I'm sure there are even more options out there.

The question is, what is the best option? I don't think I can bring myself to buy a $100 battery for a $50 light.

Since I don't really understand "maH's" and all that technical stuff about batteries, can someone give a realistic idea of runtimes for each of the batteries listed above?

If I can get close to 2 hrs on high, or maybe around 2.5 hrs on medium, I'd be happy.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I would probably lean toward the Xeccon 6600mah battery. Only $45 and that would make the whole unit under $100 and you would have a back up battery w/ the supplied battery. You would probably get 2 1/2 hrs on high w/ the 6.6

The Gemini 5200mah battery will be a bit smaller but run time somewhat less. 

I don't think this is a very good helmet light which is why I think the Xeccon battery especially at 45 bucks is a good fit even though it will be heavier than a 4400/5200mah. Apparently Xeccon uses BAK cells and I don't know anything about those cells. Maybe Cat or someone else does.

MB


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## Ral83178 (Sep 25, 2007)

Posted in a seperate thread but it looks like Two Heads might know this... 

What is needed or is it beneficial to use RC batteries (Li po) in these lights? 

They can be had pretty cheap and have pretty good output.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Ral83178 said:


> Posted in a seperate thread but it looks like Two Heads might know this...
> 
> What is needed or is it beneficial to use RC batteries (Li po) in these lights?
> 
> They can be had pretty cheap and have pretty good output.


Price was really my motivator at the time, since I already have RC batteries lying around. They're about $20 for a 4400-5000mah battery. Chargers are anywhere from $15 for cheapos to $60 for nice digital chargers that will balance out each battery cell. In addition, the RC batteries are built for high discharge (20c-40c). Using them for lights barely stresses out the batteries at all and keeps the cells pretty well in balance and they last longer.

The bad side is that RC batteries have no protection circuits within, as they typically depend on the electronic speed controller of the RC vehicle to stop the motor when it reaches a certain low voltage point. In short, that means you have to be careful to not over discharge your battery. When your light indicates low battery you need to stop using it within a few minutes or you risk bricking your battery. Not really a big deal if you're paying attention, but it's not quite as plug and play as existing "bike light" batteries.

Here's a LiPo 5000mah soft case battery thrown in an old water bottle:









I soldered up a "Deans" style connector -> Magicshine connector:


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## Ryan C. (Jan 23, 2007)

fightnut said:


> Since I don't really understand "maH's" and all that technical stuff about batteries, can someone give a realistic idea of runtimes for each of the batteries listed above?


In theory, mAh means how much total current a battery can supply. But in practice it's a marketing label that shouldn't be compared between different brands, just like lumens.

The Xeccon and Magicshine batteries use 2200mAh BAK 18650 cells, which by their own datasheets are 1900mAh at best. In this application, probably closer to 1800mAh due to the higher current draw and allowing for some manufacturing tolerance.

So a 6.6Ah Xeccon/MS at let's say 2.2A = 5.4Ah (real) / 2.2 A = 2.7 Hours

The Gemini batteries use Samsung 2600mAh cells which are a lot closer to rated capacity.

so a 5.2Ah Gemini at 2.2A = 4.9mAh (real) / 2.2A = 2.3 Hours

The Xeccon is cheaper and runs longer, but weighs 50% more (6 cells vs. 4) and due to cell quality will most likely wear out faster and be somewhat less safe while charging.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

When compairing batteriy prices, don't forget Xeccon has a flat rate shipping charge of $20.
Mole


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Anyone able to confirm if this battery is actually 5200mAh? Based on the low price, and no mention of the brand of cells, I'm guessing it's not, and that it's just a regular 4400mAh.
Anyone?


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## hkenshin (Apr 7, 2008)

I ordered one of these from a US seller on ebay for $48.50 on tuesday, got it in the mail today. Haven't ridden with it yet, but it doesn't seem to be brighter than the 1x XM-L chinese clone I picked up for $37 from tomtop, at least in a side by side on the wall. The 1x has an OP refelector but seems to be more of a spot, so the brightness might be subjective. It's raining here in socal so I probably won't get to test it's prowess at night till next week. Connectors are interchangeable between the two lights. 3X seems to be much warmer to the touch than the 1x after just 1 minute of run. I'm wondering if I might have just been better off with 2 of the 1x clones for a bar and helment combo.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

hkenshin, there must be a problem then, because the difference will be very noticeable. 
I also have a single XML clone, and this light on medium (2 LEDs) is much brighter!


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## Darktrails (Nov 10, 2012)

As a first time poster I couldn't attach pics & links to this. For pictures of my 3x XM-L taken apart, have a look at my "user gallery."
After reviewing some of the DIY lights & costs involved I decided it was hard to beat $50. inc. shipping for a 3x XM-L. I was using an old school 1990's BLT w/2x10w bulbs, it utilized a 6v SLA battery housed in a water bottle but I converted my SONY Li-ion camcorder batteries to work with it after the SLA went south. The old 10w (xenon?) bulbs are very bright but are getting hard to find around here. I was going to convert the old BLT's to LED but I was concerned the plastic housing might retain too much heat. 
So I ordered the 3x XM-L T6 from ebay, received mine the other day from Hong Kong. Took about a month. My observations so far:

-2x XM-L is enough, they are very, very bright. You won't need the 3rd one much but hey. it's there! Also an excellent light for emergencies (like when the big one hits), the strobe feature can probably be seen from outer space. I found the strobe too bright to use on a dark trail, these lights are blinding. Remember that when someone is coming towards you from the opposite direction. I did find it more difficult to discern depth of field compared to my old BLT's, as the LED's used are a bright white.

-The lights from China are all pretty similar, many share the same parts just the housing designs are a bit different (wish I had a CNC machine to play with). What look like rivets on the back of mine are just decorative indentations. For the amount of light they produce the form factor is conveniently small.

-If you need longer lasting batteries just carry an extra pack, they are cheap enough ($20. on ebay for 4400mAh, same pack that came with my light).

-For most folks the mount should be O.K. They will move a bit on rough trails though, applying textured tape to the bar might help as will mounting them upside down. I like the idea of them being removable (and you can adjust the angle while you ride), but they are a PITA to take off when your fingers are cold! Just use a pen or something to pry the band loose. I have not tried the helmet mount.

So there you go. I felt they were plenty bright, & battery usage seems O.K.so far, just keep it on 1x or 2x setting. They are relatively cheap, super bright, heck a single cree XM-L T6 is enough for the average commuter. I just use my "frog LED" when I'm on city streets & now I don't have to worry about unlit trails once I turn this little beast on. For more hard core trail riders two of these should be sufficient, try one on the bar & one on the helmet. One can always engineer a sturdier mount for them. Probably going to refit my reef aquarium with LED's now, too. Hope this helps.


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## hkenshin (Apr 7, 2008)

Just an update, took them out for a ride on Friday. The 3x is way brighter than the 1x clone. In fact the 1x almost gets lost in flood even on medium. Like others have said in the thread, not much diff between med and high. The strobe as a mandatory to cycle through is annoying but oh we'll. Also it's not to heavy to helmet mount. For the price, not much to complain about other than the questionable quality of the batteries and the bar mount as others have said. I'll try some of the tape to see if it stays put. I think this is a better value than the 1x clone for ~$15 more


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

hkenshin said:


> Just an update, took them out for a ride on Friday. The 3x is way brighter than the 1x clone. In fact the 1x almost gets lost in flood even on medium. Like others have said in the thread, not much diff between med and high. The strobe as a mandatory to cycle through is annoying but oh we'll. Also it's not to heavy to helmet mount. For the price, not much to complain about other than the questionable quality of the batteries and the bar mount as others have said. I'll try some of the tape to see if it stays put. I think this is a better value than the 1x clone for ~$15 more


Yes, hard to beat the price of the triple. Still the single XML clones are better for the helmet as they tend to have a more narrow beam pattern.

*Fightnut,* The battery that you linked to looks like a good value. If it is listed as 5200mAh then it should use 4 x 2600mAh cells in the battery. Of course the only way to really know what cells are used in the battery is to buy the battery and take off the shrink wrap....not something most people are really willing to do. Unless the vendor tells you the brand of the battery and the brand is something like Samsung, Sanyo or Panasonic you just buy based off the mAh listing and just go at face value. For the record, the Bak cells while not the best are not bad and worth the asking price.

**Action LED also sells a 5200mAh battery that is not too expensive but also has added shipping cost. **correction, used to have a 5200mAh battery that was not too expensive.


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## mizzen (Nov 11, 2012)

I was trying to find a comparison of 3x Cree XML T6 discussed above against these two models:

- CREE XM-L T6 LED Light + 2 XPE R2 LED (amazon.co.uk/eLifeStore%C2%AE-HeadLamp-HeadLight-Waterproof-Rechargeable/dp/B007W96KA6/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1352666549&sr=8-12)

- CREE XML T6 LED Bicycle Headlight 3 Modes 3800 Lumens (amazon.co.uk/Highly-T6-Bicycle-Headlight-battery/dp/B00A3C5280/ref=sr_1_22?s=sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1352566238&sr=1-22)

I spent last 2 hours looking for a side-by-side comparison or at least a decent review but no luck so far. Can anyone please comment on that? Which one would you go for?

Thanks.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

I bought one of these about a month ago and have been so impressed with its brightness, and runtimes that I bought 2 more for friends for X-mas. 
3800Lm Bicycle 3X XML T6 LEDs Bike Front Light Lamp Torch 6400mAh Battery | eBay

I also have a 1800 Gemini Olympia which is my go to light as it's very reliable, lightweight, and programmable, but the eBay light is a little brighter, not much, maybe 2000 lumens and has a 3 hour run time. The battery is a 6400 mah battery inside an aluminum case with a carry pack for a bike. For $70 bucks it's an absolute steal. It's not 3600 lumens, but it is bright enough for downhill usage.


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## Ral83178 (Sep 25, 2007)

Just pulled the trigger on one of these guts on Ebay for $47 and should have in 3 days (US Seller) maybe 7 but who cares...

Anyway, regarding batterues. ANyone have alink ot the OEM batteries these come with? Looking to see if it is cheaper to just get a couple of those or go with the one listed above (Xeccon) i think. 

Thanks!

tom


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ral83178 said:


> Just pulled the trigger on one of these guts on Ebay for $47 and should have in 3 days (US Seller) maybe 7 but who cares...
> 
> Anyway, regarding batterues. ANyone have alink ot the OEM batteries these come with? Looking to see if it is cheaper to just get a couple of those or go with the one listed above (Xeccon) i think.
> 
> ...


Because the subject of "What cells are used" in this battery/light combo keeps coming up I decided to open the shrink wrap on mine to take a look. Not encouraging to say the least. There are no markings on the blue colored cells. This tells me that the battery builder has repackaged the cells with their own covering. Sometimes you can remove these coverings but to do so you have to completely dismantle the cells from the PCB and the glue that is holding it all together and then surgically try to remove the wrappers on the cells. Sorry but I'm not willing to go that far. :nonod:

For the record, if the cells were quality cells there would be no reason to cover-over the OEM markings on the cells. At least that is my take on it. I remember ( years ago ) someone dismantled a battery like this and discovered that the battery was made with recycled cells. Not saying this is the case here but it is a possibility. Lets just say that in the future I'll not be using this battery until I do some more testing to see how it holds up over time. For those who want a better battery I suggest buying from one of the vendors who will back their product ( and have technical information on the battery ).

Please, if you have comments about another cheap e-bay clone lamp; please, start a new thread. Posting all the links to different ebay lamps is confusing and distracting to the original subject matter of the thread. If you want to post up or comment about another lamp it would be better to start a new thread ( so everyone knows what lamp is being talked about ) Thanks...


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

*Xeccon 6600mAh batteries for US customers*



TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> Xeccon 6600mah - $45
> 
> Gemini 5200mah - $65
> 
> ...





MRMOLE said:


> When compairing batteriy prices, don't forget Xeccon has a flat rate shipping charge of $20.
> Mole


In the interest of reducing shipping cost and promoting Xeccon 6600mAh batteries, we are arranging limited number of these batteries in Neoprene pouch as pictured shipped to Bloomington IN this week.

This offer is for US customers only. Price is USD 49.00 including USPS delivery. Xeccon 6600mAh Battery Special

The batteries are available for shipping Monday Nov 19 onwards and come with 6 month warranty. Please use appropriate chargers. If unsure please contact us.

Leonard


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

So I think I've narrowed it down to 2 options for a replacement/upgrade battery for this triple XML. Any input is appreciated.

For myself, my average night ride is around 2 to 2.5 hrs, but minus the re-grouping and standing around gabbing (which I always turn my lights off for), the actual time the lights would be on is around 1.5 to 2 hours.

Since this light isn't much different from medim (2 leds) to high (3 leds), I would most likely have it on medium most of the time.

So as you can see, I'm not asking for crazy long run times.

With that in mind, which would better?

1. Xeccon's 6 cell, 6600mAh, which should give me plenty of run time, $50 (delivered),

2. Magicshines 4 cell with Samsung cells at 5600mAh for around $57 (delivered).

Ideally, I'd prefer the smaller more compact 4 cell set up. But the question is,* is a 4 cell really enough for this *light?

Thoughts?


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

You guys with both single and triple XM-L lights, what do you think which combo would do the job best for for trail/offroad riding at night:

1. Single 3 x XM-L light for ~$50
2. Two single XM-L clones*** for ~$60
3. 3 x XM-L + single XM-L clone for ~$80

***One of them perhaps should have wide angle lens installed?


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## Infinity123 (Dec 11, 2009)

bobale said:


> You guys with both single and triple XM-L lights, what do you think which combo would do the job best for for trail/offroad riding at night:


Option 3 would be my choice. 3 x XM-L on medium (2 hours runtime) as a bar light, and 1 x XM-L on high (3 hours runtime) as a helmet light should be plenty of light.


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. My first proper bike lamp is on the way (single XM-L clone), so I'll be forced to ride with it only for some time. I'll probably invest in another lamp next year as I won't get much riding year as winter is coming here.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Infinity123 said:


> Option 3 would be my choice. 3 x XM-L on medium (2 hours runtime) as a bar light, and 1 x XM-L on high (3 hours runtime) as a helmet light should be plenty of light.


Problem is, the 3 xm-l isn't getting 2 hours on medium (at least not the one being discussed in this thread).
Aside from that, I would agree with you that option 3 is best (just need to upgrade to a higher capacity battery).


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

That wouldn't be a problem, I already have some 2S 5000mAh LiPo batteries laying around, so I may as well use them.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Xeccon said:


> In the interest of reducing shipping cost and promoting Xeccon 6600mAh batteries, we are arranging limited number of these batteries in Neoprene pouch as pictured shipped to Bloomington IN this week.
> 
> This offer is for US customers only. Price is USD 49.00 including USPS delivery. Xeccon 6600mAh Battery Special
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great offer. I've been using a red action wide angle lens in a Titan lighthead for a rear light alot lately. It's super bright but using one battery and a Y cable I'm pushing it to get two afterwork rides(25 mi.) on a battery charge. As the days get shorter a larger percentage of the ride is in the dark and it will be nice to have the extra battery capacity. Your efforts are appreciated! I justy placed my order.
Mole


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

MRMOLE said:


> Thanks for the great offer. I've been using a red action wide angle lens in a Titan lighthead for a rear light alot lately. It's super bright but using one battery and a Y cable I'm pushing it to get two afterwork rides(25 mi.) on a battery charge. As the days get shorter a larger percentage of the ride is in the dark and it will be nice to have the extra battery capacity. Your efforts are appreciated! I justy placed my order.
> Mole


Thanks Mr.Mole. The Xeccon 6600 should do you fine. I ride with 2 of these batteries on the bike. They don't seem much bigger visually than the 4400s. 33% more capacity for 100 grams more is a good trade off. I am getting good runtimes considering the stuff they are powering.

For the record, it has identical runtimes with the Magicshine MJ-6036 battery since they are both BAK cells inside.

As mentioned in the order update, the batteries will be ready for dispatch from next Monday.

Leonard


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I think there is a small difference in weight between Skyray S6 and this clone and they work about the same way. Only Skyray S6 is from some reason more expensive


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I did a run time test *( on high )* with my Tri-Clone lamp tonight using a *4 cell 5200mAh ( BAK ) Bikeray battery. *While doing the test I noticed that my tri-clone light head did not have any of the usual " LED power level displays". ( ie...no green to blue to red led indicators ).
At exactly the two hour mark the light went out. There was no flash warning. Just out after two hours. I thought this strange because the lamp was still quite bright however the lamp would not come back on.

At this point I figured the battery PCB had triggered the turn off circuit so I reset the battery by plugging it in to the charger for a moment. After that the light came back on and I ran it another half hour on the single LED low setting before it once again turned off via the battery cut-off circuit.

In summary it should be noted that a 5200mAh 4-cell battery can run this lamp on high close to 2hrs. Since there are no warnings from this clone lamp head it would be smart to run the lamp on high no more than 1hr and 45 min. ( or medium more than 2hrs ) After that you have another half hour of light if run on low. All things considered if you are using a 5200mAh battery with this lamp you will have to keep an eye on your watch. If you accidentally trigger the battery PCB you will be without light even if the battery has enough juice to power the low level for another half hour. You can't reset the battery without the charger so be forewarned. Even if you mix the power settings I wouldn't plan on running the light more than 2.5hours just to be on the safe side.

Now as to the supplied battery from the seller; I have a feeling the run times will be much shorter.

_*Edit: Another way to reset a battery might be to take a MS type male plug and wire it to a 9 volt radio battery. If the main battery cuts out plug the 9volt into the main battery for a moment and it should reset. Not sure if this would work but if you are into longer rides and own this light it might work. Luckily when you turn the light on it always starts up in low. _


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## Skylinemtb (Nov 12, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> I did a run time test *( on high )* with my Tri-Clone lamp tonight using a *4 cell 5200mAh ( BAK ) Bikeray battery. *While doing the test I noticed that my tri-clone light head did not have any of the usual " LED power level displays". ( ie...no green to blue to red led indicators ).
> At exactly the two hour mark the light went out. There was no flash warning. Just out after two hours. I thought this strange because the lamp was still quite bright however the lamp would not come back on.
> 
> At this point I figured the battery PCB had triggered the turn off circuit so I reset the battery by plugging it in to the charger for a moment. After that the light came back on and I ran it another half hour on the single LED low setting before it once again turned off via the battery cut-off circuit.
> ...


Cat,

Thanks for all your input. My first post, but earlier reading convinced me to order this same tri-clone ($48.63 delivered) (my first light) and I have 2 rides and 2 work sessions with it under me. I'm totally happy with the brightness but a noob. As others have said not much difference between med. & high, but like you said, there is no warning when it goes off, it's off and done until reconnected to the charger. Thanks for the 9 volt tip, might have to try that until I get a 2nd battery.

My first ride (w/ the original battery) was right at 100 minutes and in the pouring rain. I had no problems with connectors, but it was a linear trail so I was able to use it on low for a good portion of the ride, medium was more than enough except in thick fog w/ rain at higher speed (30+ mph). At those points more light didn't really help. The head band set up doesn't work well at all since the light size is too big to rotate forward, but works great for tying your shoes! The handle bar mount works OK but perhaps some grip tape or inner tube like others have said would stop any movement.

Since my light only turned off during one work session, the thing I noticed is that if left connected, the battery seems to drain enough to keep it from turning on later. I don't know if that is common, bad design, or just defective. It seems too coincidental that both times I left the battery connected, it wouldn't turn on later, even though it was fine when I turned it off. Don't know if you can test for this, but thought I would pass it on, as it could be really inconvenient to charge it, connect it and have it not work the next day without using it. Cheers!


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regarding missing alarm I have posted some gadgets that should do it from ebay here.


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

*New current measurements*

In post #38 http://forums.mtbr.com/9781893-post38.html I wrote


HakanC said:


> I measured the battery current draw in my 3x XM-L light:
> 1: 0,62A (5W)
> 2: 1,67A (13W)
> 3: 1,95A (19W)


I have measured the current draw once more, but with another battery, a homemade 3P2S battery, with 6 cheap 18650 cells from DX in a holder.
Here is what I found
1: 0,62A
2: 2,1A
3: 2,6A

Quite a difference from my original measurements.

BTW the battery I used in my original measurements was not the original battery for the 3x XM-L clone light. It was a MS battery: MJ-828, the one with the display
MJ-828-Shenzhen MINJUN Electronic Co.,Ltd

Obviously the current demand from the 3x XM-L clone light is too high even for my 3P2S battery.
Therefore it would be interesting if somebody with access to a good bench power supply, capable of (at least) 7,6 to 8V and 4 to 5A, coluld do the same current measurements on the 3x XM-L clone light.

If I repeat my current measurements a third time I will use the battery supplied with the light.

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Hey!

So I received my 3 XML yesterday. Looks good and I agree the high isn't worth it. Makes me wonder if this light would be a good option, any takers?

2800Lm 2x CREE XML XM-L T6 LED Bicycle bike HeadLight Flashlight Headlamp Light | eBay

I charged the battery up with my Turnigy RC charger. Charged it at 1 AMP and it took 1358 milliamps in 156 minutes. Next up, I ran it through a discharge cycle setting the charger to 1 AMP with a cut off of 6 volts. In reality, it discharged at 0.7 amps and trickled down. It took 180 minutes and it pulled 2113 milliamps out of the pack. I repeated this test with another RC charger and this time it took 2309 out in 197 minutes. My seller claimed the battery was 6400 mah. This clearly isn't the case which was expected from pervious burn time results and user comments in this thread. But I was hoping&#8230; I've emailed the seller asking what's up, we'll see what they say.

I'm still waiting to receive the other light I ordered, the mini cree one with the same claimed 6400 mah pack (different seller).

Fun stuff!


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

Mr.Grumpy said:


> Hey!
> 
> So I received my 3 XML yesterday. Looks good and I agree the high isn't worth it. Makes me wonder if this light would be a good option, any takers?
> 
> ...


all intersting stuff for sure!! I just ordered the Mini Cree as well........just can't be the price if I can get 1.5 hours out of the 2 lights................I'm thinking It'll work..........thanks for all the testing guys/gals!! ......

doug


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HakanC said:


> In post #38 http://forums.mtbr.com/9781893-post38.html I wrote
> 
> I have measured the current draw once more, but with another battery, a homemade 3P2S battery, with 6 cheap 18650 cells from DX in a holder.
> Here is what I found
> ...


Hakan, Sounds like your homemade battery did very well. Most batteries like the MS/BR 4cell setups have a PCB that limits the output current. Out of curiosity I decided to do a quick Lux output test using both the supplied battery and my Bikeray 5200mAh battery that I used for the run time test. Surprisingly the supplied generic battery gave a slightly brighter output than the BR battery. This means the supplied battery allows a larger current pull. That probably goes far to explain why the supplied battery seems to have a shorter run time than other batteries.

All things considered, If you really wanted a good battery to run this lamp it might be a good idea to buy a Li-Po set-up. The Li-po hobby batteries are able to supply larger current pulls and can be set-up with a low voltage warning device *( Like MK96 mentioned above ).*

If I really planned on using this lamp for everyday use I would buy a Li-po battery over 6000mAh and a decent hobby charger. Plug one of those low voltage warning devices into the balance leads when you go for a ride and you should be good to go. Not sure I'll really buy one as I have more than enough batteries right now

*Another way to handle the battery PCB cut-off problem would be to simply buy a cheap MagicShine 2 cell battery and carry it as back up. All issues considered not a bad option. Adding to that you could also wire up a 2-male plug adapter and use it to reset the PCB on the other battery if it goes out and still has some power left. Yes, that would work real well and the 2 cell would give you enough juice on low for over two hours ( or medium for maybe 1hr. )

Hey...Whatever works best! * :thumbsup:


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Hey!

I received the Mini Cree 1x XML Light. Here are some comparison shots between the 3x XML, 1x Mini and my old NiteRider Storm HID. Distance to the bike is about 55 feet.

Mini CREE LED XML XM-L T6 LED 1600Lm Bicycle Light Bike Lamp HeadLight headLamp | eBay

Canon SX10IS
ISO 100
4 Second Shutter
F4.0 Aperture
WB Daylight

Reference








3x xml low








3x xml medium








3x xml high








1x xml mini low








1x xml mini high








Niteride Storm HID (12 years old)








Size comparison


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

So I ran the Mini cree's claimed 6400 mah battery on my RC charger and discharged the battery at 1 amp with a 6 volt cutoff. I pulled 3683 milliamps out of the battery in 306 minutes. Much better than the 3 x XML battery. Still not what was advertised, but expected (4400 mah pack). Something to note, sadly the connector on the Mini Cree's battery pack is different than the connector on the 3x XML battery pack. The inside positive pin is skinnier on the mini and the connector overlaps similar to a MagicShine, just not as tight. The pin in the middle is split, so if you are careful, you could expand it to tighten up the connector. As it is, it's fine I think. See the below picture.

Top - 3x XML
Bottom - 1x Mini


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Did some amp draw tests on both lights.

3x XML
0.56
2.35
2.54

1x XML Mini
0.32
0.64

Charged the 1x XML Mini battery and it took 3600 milliamperes.

Anything else people want to know?


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Grump

Can you show us a picture against the tri-clone. Or next to a XML-1 clone if you have one. Want to see what the actual size is.

Thx


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Mb,

The only lights I have are the 3 in the photo above. NR Storm, tri clone and the mini Cree. Do you want more pics of the mini beside the tri clone?


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Regarding max current in the 3x XM-L light I have found a online shop that writes that the light is power limited to 15W, to avoid overheating.

I think that it makes sense, but that it is a current limitation at 2,6A.
This current limitation could be one of the reasons why the difference in light output between mid and high is so small, evan with a good battery.

I still think that it would be interesting if somebody with a good bench power supply,coluld do some current measurements on the 3x XM-L clone light.


/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HakanC said:


> Regarding max current in the 3x XM-L light I have found a online shop that writes that the light is power limited to 15W, to avoid overheating.
> 
> I think that it makes sense, but that it is a current limitation at 2,6A.
> *This current limitation could be one of the reasons why the difference in light output between mid and high is so small, evan with a good battery.*
> ...


Perhaps, but common sense tells me that regardless, you aren't going to notice a really big jump in output between two XM-L's and three XM-L's. It is noticeable but just barely.
That's just the way the eyes work. The brighter the light, the more output that is needed to see a significant difference in intensity. Eye sight is not linear in nature. Thank God for that because if it was all of us would be blinded the first time the sun came up. Now if the difference was between 2 and 4 XML's then yes, there would be a much more obvious jump in intensity.

Now if the lamp were wired differently so that all the LED's were lit for all three modes you could have the modes set so that there were more notable increases in intensity for the last two modes. For a three mode lamp with a 1200 to 1300 lumen output a good mode choice would be > low ( 250 lumen ) medium ( 500 lumen ) high ( 1300 lumen ).

On a side note my Gloworm X2 works almost the same way except both LED's are always on. Still when using the trail programme there is not much difference in intensity between the mid-mode and high mode. Once a lamp gets to the 800 lumen level you almost have to go into the 2000 lumen range to see a really big difference. At least that's my take on it.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

mb323323 said:


> Hey Grump
> 
> Can you show us a picture against the tri-clone. Or next to a XML-1 clone if you have one. Want to see what the actual size is.
> 
> Thx


Hey Mb.

Here are some more pictures of the mini compared to the 3x XML Tri-Clone. Is that what you wanted?


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

The seller for the 3x XML Tri-Clone has agreed to send me a replacement battery at no charge as the first battery is no where near the rated 6400 mah. I can only pull 2300 mah out of it.

Store: zhixingstarshop88. Seller: rabbitword88

I'm hoping the replacement battery is closer to the output that the 1x Mini Cree battery puts out (3700 mah). This battery is in line with a 4400 mah pack, not a 6400 mah pack.

I've asked them to test the battery on a tri-clone before shipping it out. I told them "if" it's a 6400 mah battery, they should be able to run the light on high for over 2 hours. I'm not holding my breath as I know the cells are to new and expensive for them to be including them to make a 6400 mah pack.

I'll report back once I receive the new battery.


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> common sense tells me that regardless, you aren't going to notice a really big jump in output between two XM-L's and three XM-L's. It is noticeable but just barely.


I agree, of course.

But I was mainly thinking about the minimal increase in current between Mid and High that I measured in the post above
http://forums.mtbr.com/9875563-post148.html


HakanC said:


> 1: 0,62A
> 2: 2,1A
> 3: 2,6A


0,5A increase is only about 3-4W

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

for my laymen ass..........I ran the 3x 3600 lumen with the stock 4400 battery in my kitchen.....it ran for 1 hour 26 minutes before it shut off.......it was VERY hot (i'm guessing while riding it will be better......I plugged the battery back into the charger for one second and got another 20 minutes........I'll try it again for fun and see if it's close again.......


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Thx

It does look to be a bit smaller than a 1 XML clone. Hard to tell tho. What do your eyes see Cat.

MB


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

mb323323 said:


> Thx
> 
> It does look to be a bit smaller than a 1 XML clone. Hard to tell tho. What do your eyes see Cat.
> 
> MB


How about this!

Similar height to a C cell, similar diameter to a D cell.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I am going to buy an adjustable power supply, but in January, so I cannot make test earlier :-(



HakanC said:


> Regarding max current in the 3x XM-L light I have found a online shop that writes that the light is power limited to 15W, to avoid overheating.
> 
> I think that it makes sense, but that it is a current limitation at 2,6A.
> This current limitation could be one of the reasons why the difference in light output between mid and high is so small, evan with a good battery.
> ...


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Yep, pretty small. I'll put the regular XML-1 clone next to C & D batteries and see if the mini is smaller. Might be just a touch smaller but not much. 

How do you like the output of it. Spot it looks like. Does it out throw the XML-3 clone.

MB


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## Baja Designs (Aug 3, 2010)

Haaah!! Cat, you crack me up. 

When I was at ye olde NiteRider the legendary Classic and Digital Pro dual beam systems had the same functionality, only when the system was on high did you have a spot and a wide angle lens putting light to the ground. 

Funny how in the quest to drive prices down we've regressed to 90's functionality concepts.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

BajaDesignsShannon said:


> Haaah!! Cat, you crack me up.
> 
> When I was at ye olde NiteRider the legendary Classic and Digital Pro dual beam systems had the same functionality, only when the system was on high did you have a spot and a wide angle lens putting light to the ground.
> 
> Funny how in the quest to drive prices down we've regressed to 90's functionality concepts.


*Shannon*, next time please quote me so I know what you are referring to. Then maybe I can laugh too. ...Otherwise I end up sitting here scratching my head trying to figure out the reference. :crazy:

*MB*....Sorry about my last post. I thought you were asking a question about the tri-clone. I see now that you were asking about the mini single XML lamp. No I don't have one of those but those have been around a while. I think the brand most associated with the mini is "Marsfire".

This is why I hate it when people start talking about different clone lamps in a thread for one specific clone. Real easy to get confused if the light in question is not spelled out in black and white.

Anyway, the Marsfire single XM-L mini- type should work well. I was going to buy one myself a while back but so far no one has given it a decent 3-mode plus flash driver. Should make a good helmet light *if* the beam pattern is similar to the 808E.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Any one really get this thing cracked open yet? I was planing a 2x xml bar light with 8 cells and a B3flex driver. This might be cheaper to buy then sourcing out all the parts i need. It has 3 xml already and a nice housing. For led, optics and holder im near the 50 bucks right off the start. With a new driver I can ditch the crappy modes and run 3 amps if needed. 

But I wonder if the taskled driver will fit.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> This is why I hate it when people start talking about different clone lamps in a thread for one specific clone. Real easy to get confused if the light in question is not spelled out in black and white.


Sorry Cat. It wasn't my intention to hijack the thread with the Mini Cree light. I only posted it as others showed interest and it's all I had for comparison to the 3x XML Tri-Clone, other than the aging NiteRider Storm.



Cat-man-do said:


> Anyway, the Marsfire single XM-L mini- type should work well. I was going to buy one myself a while back but so far no one has given it a decent 3-mode plus flash driver. Should make a good helmet light if the beam pattern is similar to the 808E.


Beam pattern of the mini is posted above, compared to the 3x XML Tri-Clone.



mb323323 said:


> How do you like the output of it. Spot it looks like. Does it out throw the XML-3 clone.MB


I'll be riding tonight for the first time with both lights. At this point I'm not sure if it out throws the 3x XML, from the photos, I believe they are similar, since one is a flood, the other a spot. But from the photos, the distance they give light, I don't think it's going to matter! Compared to what I'm coming from, an aging NiteRider Storm and for the cost, I don't think I'll be unhappy tonight.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

machine4321 said:


> Any one really get this thing cracked open yet? I was planing a 2x xml bar light with 8 cells and a B3flex driver. This might be cheaper to buy then sourcing out all the parts i need. It has 3 xml already and a nice housing. For led, optics and holder im near the 50 bucks right off the start. With a new driver I can ditch the crappy modes and run 3 amps if needed.
> 
> But I wonder if the taskled driver will fit.


I forget where I saw it but someone did manage to get one of these open. I remember the part the held the driver is attached to the front and completely enclosed the driver. Not saying it can't be done but unless you get those two halves apart I can't see someone messing around with the driver or internal wiring.

I bought mine hoping for the same as what you posted. Hopefully in the future one of the vendors will see the usefulness of the output and sell an upgraded version with a better mode menu. With better modes, a better battery and some fail-safe circuitry I'd be willing to pay at least another $40 for one of these.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

@MrGrumpy, you should start a thread on that mini cree. I think there's enough interest in it to warrent it's own thread (I know I'm interested in it), and since you're the only one I know that has one yet, who better to start that thread

@Cat, it's interesting to see how quickly the manufactures respond to feedback. I see now that several of these 3xml clones are coming with 6 cell battery packs. Not saying whether they are quality packs or not, but just that manufacturers are responding to complaints is good to see.

Also, a lot of the cheapy lights from China are now making it so you have to push the button for an extended time to get to the strobe/flash modes. So they are listening, which I think is great.


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

I am looking at this light too on eBay/amazon. 3x Cree XML t6. I just started trail riding and need a really bright light for around this price so I can still ride when it gets dark here in the northeast around 3pm 

Couple of questions. Why are they so much cheaper than other brands that have the same Cree lights and batteries? Do I need to buy anything else with this (action wide angle lens, different battery pack,etc). How come the exact same light has different batteries and lumens listed by different sellers? A link to the best one would be appreciated.  

Sorry for all the noob questions...just started biking this summer and don't want it to end!!


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

lethalsvt said:


> I am looking at this light too on eBay/amazon. 3x Cree XML t6. I just started trail riding and need a really bright light for around this price so I can still ride when it gets dark here in the northeast around 3pm
> 
> Couple of questions. Why are they so much cheaper than other brands that have the same Cree lights and batteries? Do I need to buy anything else with this (action wide angle lens, different battery pack,etc). How come the exact same light has different batteries and lumens listed by different sellers? A link to the best one would be appreciated.
> 
> Sorry for all the noob questions...just started biking this summer and don't want it to end!!


Quite honestly, I'd advise you to look at something different. Unless your rides are only an hour or less, you're going to need a different battery. And once you add that cost in, you may as well go with something else.

I'd suggest going with 2 single XML lights, one for bars, one for helmet, each with their own battery pack. You'll get up to about 3 hours run time and have plenty of light (not to mention running 2 lights is always better then 1 incase one fails or you crash and break one).


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

lethalsvt said:


> I am looking at this light too on eBay/amazon. 3x Cree XML t6. I just started trail riding and need a really bright light for around this price so I can still ride when it gets dark here in the northeast around 3pm
> 
> Couple of questions. Why are they so much cheaper than other brands that have the same Cree lights and batteries? Do I need to buy anything else with this (action wide angle lens, different battery pack,etc). How come the exact same light has different batteries and lumens listed by different sellers? A link to the best one would be appreciated.
> 
> Sorry for all the noob questions...just started biking this summer and don't want it to end!!


I'm a noob, but I'll try to answer that question since I've been researching and trying to decide on a light set up. They are so much cheaper because they

don't have the same battery packs. the battery packs have cheaper cells, aren't put together as well, don't have as many mah as the more expensive, don't have as nice of cases etc.

While they may have the same LED's they don't have as high of quality drivers, often don't warn you when the battery pack is getting low, aren't fabricated with a much quality control.

The companys are often difficult to communicate with, and don't stand behind their product as well.

That being said I will probably buy a couple of clones, but am having a hard time making a decision.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

To expand a bit on my last post. 
For guys like Cat-Man-Do and myself, and any others that have a lot of different lights, batteries and chargers already laying around, these lights are fine to take a gamble on.

But for a noob who is just looking for a good, reliable light, and it's going to be their only light, I'd suggest going with something else.


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks for the replies!
So a single clone xmlt6 will have a life about 3 hours, and the 3x xmlt6 setup will get barely 1 hour?
So none of these eBay/amazon clones have decent battery packs? (for the 2 or 3x setups)


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I would say that if you need to go cheap, go w/ 2 lights for sure and go w/ the XML-1 clone. One on the helmet and one on the bars and you will be just fine w/ the amount of light and the run time since they do not have multi LED's. 

They might only last a year but they are cheap. Some of us are actually getting more than a year tho.

Otherwise it's 200++++ for good lights. More if you want helmet and bar.

Either way, never ride w/ just 1.


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## qdave (Jun 5, 2007)

I agree with going for two lights if buying into the low cost Chinese lights. If one fails, then you (hopefully) have a back up light and back up battery. And look for lights with decent reviews (if possible).
1800 Lumen CREE XML XM L T6 LED Bicycle Light Bike Cycle Lamp Headlight Headlamp | eBay
I bought two of these lights, from different vendors, and am very happy with them (so far). I tested the batteries of both at home and got 4 hours 10 minutes out of one and 4 hours 11 minutes out of the other. Nice, since I was just hoping for 3 hours. Also nice that they quit with long burn times and similar burn times, so hopefully new, decent cells in them. Downside is the button on the lights goes red too early (I forget when), but it does flash red just a while before the light dies. Batteries still had 6.6v left when lights went out, so not over discharged. Only running these lights for about a month, but so far so good. I use both of these on the bars and an XP-G flashlight or old Magicshine on my helmet (can't have too many lights).


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## Corbinworks (Aug 15, 2011)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> Price was really my motivator at the time, since I already have RC batteries lying around. They're about $20 for a 4400-5000mah battery. Chargers are anywhere from $15 for cheapos to $60 for nice digital chargers that will balance out each battery cell. In addition, the RC batteries are built for high discharge (20c-40c). Using them for lights barely stresses out the batteries at all and keeps the cells pretty well in balance and they last longer.
> 
> The bad side is that RC batteries have no protection circuits within, as they typically depend on the electronic speed controller of the RC vehicle to stop the motor when it reaches a certain low voltage point. In short, that means you have to be careful to not over discharge your battery. When your light indicates low battery you need to stop using it within a few minutes or you risk bricking your battery. Not really a big deal if you're paying attention, but it's not quite as plug and play as existing "bike light" batteries.
> 
> ...


Great idea, I would even swap to deans pins, I worked for a hobbie shop for a long time and built all my battery's & we even matched out own cells..I would think it would be a great place to get batterys..


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## Corbinworks (Aug 15, 2011)

I buy all of my HID's from these people, never had a problem...would something like this work for bikes?

http://www.ddmtuning.com/Products/GT-LED


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## Xtyling (Apr 21, 2011)

Corbinworks said:


> I buy all of my HID's from these people, never had a problem...would something like this work for bikes?
> 
> http://www.ddmtuning.com/Products/GT-LED


2 problems I see:

1) Mounting the light on your bike.

2) The 12 Volt requirement. You would need a very big battery pack.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Corbinworks said:


> I buy all of my HID's from these people, never had a problem...would something like this work for bikes?
> 
> http://www.ddmtuning.com/Products/GT-LED


If you use a Li-ion 11.1 volt battery it should work. The down side, you still need to buy a battery. Adding to that, low run time as there is no mode selection and you have to fashion your own mount. Since they cost more I suggest the lamp offered in the OP is better for bike use although the battery could be better.


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## bornmodernbaby (Nov 16, 2012)

If those are indeed rivots in the back housing, I wonder how they will hold up in term of keeping water out of the housing? Interesting way of holding the unit together unless they are more for cosmetic reasoning.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

bornmodernbaby said:


> If those are indeed rivots in the back housing


It's not. It's machined to look like rivets.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

So, first ride done with the lights, 3 hours away from the house, 2.5 of that was moving time. I used the light I'm not supposed to talk about on low for the entire moving time without any problems. I used the 3x XML Tri-Clone on the descents mostly on low with some medium in there. Honestly I felt that both lights on low did a pretty good job overall. But nothing I rode last night would I consider high speed. It was mostly tight single track with lots of twists and turns. Overall happy with the lights. I'll charge up the batteries tonight and report back what I put in. Should give me an idea of what to expect. I was very conservative with the light usage last night.



mb323323 said:


> How do you like the output of it. Spot it looks like. Does it out throw the XML-3 clone.MB


The throw on the mini cree is further than the tri-clone. Spot vs. flood, spot wins!


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

Well I need a new plastic mount for mine. First time mounting to the handlebars and the plastic around the screw hole snapped. Duct taped it back on, and then a minor crash caused the plastic to break where the o-ring hooks onto it. For some reason the plastic is very brittle.

Anyone have an idea of something to replace the mount with?


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

presslab said:


> Anyone have an idea of something to replace the mount with?


I went with the same type of mount from Action LED. $6 for first class shipping and really fast service. It comes with the screw.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Update.

The 1x mini Cree's battery took about 1100 milliamperes charge. It was run for at least 2.5 hours, mostly on low. On a discharge cycle I was able to pull almost 3700 milliamperes from this battery (6v cutoff). So there should be lots more runtime with this light.

The 3x XML Tri-Clone's battery took about a 1600 milliamperes charge. It was run for about 90 minutes mostly on low. On a discharge cycle I pulled around 2300 milliamperes from the stock battery (6v cutoff). As we know, the batteries that come with the Tri-clone appear to suck. I have another one coming from the eBay seller I bought from. Hopefully it's better.

Anyone else out there have the means to run their stock TRI-clone battery on a discharge cycle with an rc charger? If be curious if these batteries are all the same, or if one eBay seller is better than another.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Mr.Grumpy said:


> Update.
> 
> The 1x mini Cree's battery took about 1100 milliamperes charge. It was run for at least 2.5 hours, mostly on low. On a discharge cycle I was able to pull almost 3700 milliamperes from this battery (6v cutoff). So there should be lots more runtime with this light.
> 
> ...


Sorry, don't have a rc charger/discharger but I am running a run time test on high with the supplied battery. If it doesn't get at least 1.5 hrs then yes it does suck. What I don't understand is that I'm seeing these lamps ( TRI-clones and clones of TRI-clone ) being sold all over the place but have yet to see one of these being sold with an up-graded battery. Even a 5200mAh battery would be a vast improvement. First place to do it will make some bucks.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Sorry, don't have a rc charger/discharger but I am running a run time test on high with the supplied battery. If it doesn't get at least 1.5 hrs then yes it does suck.... .


Well it turns out mine Super-sucks... I got 1 hr. 10 minutes on high. When I reset the battery I only got 1 more minute on low. That's pretty bad. In comparison my 5200mAh Bikeray battery got 2hrs on high and an extra 20 minutes on low when I reset the battery.

Anyway I figure these TRI-clone cells are likely no more than 1500mAh ea. ( if that ) rft:


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

mb323323 said:


> I would say that if you need to go cheap, go w/ 2 lights for sure and go w/ the XML-1 clone. One on the helmet and one on the bars and you will be just fine w/ the amount of light and the run time since they do not have multi LED's.
> Either way, never ride w/ just 1.


Another disadvantage of a single Big light is that (especially with long travel forks) the illumination range is limited under heavy braking due to brake dive.

In this conditions a second (helmet) light is very useful to extend the field of vision


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> Well it turns out mine Super-sucks... I got 1 hr. 10 minutes on high. When I reset the battery I only got 1 more minute on low. That's pretty bad. In comparison my 5200mAh Bikeray battery got 2hrs on high and an extra 20 minutes on low when I reset the battery.
> 
> Anyway I figure these TRI-clone cells are likely no more than 1500mAh ea. ( if that ) rft:


I ran my Tri-Clone on high last night. 1 Hour 5 Minutes and it was done. I charged it back up and it took back 2100ish milliamps. I'm at work now, but I'm running the low test as a type this. I'll also do a medium test and report back my findings.

I'm guessing there is probably one manufacture of the Tri-Clones and they are shipping the same crap batteries to all the ebay sellers. So they all suck. Just my guess.


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## eugovector (Nov 21, 2012)

I purchased a tri-clone on OCt 12, 2012 from securityingstore via ebay for $52 shipped. Can't post links yet, so pm for link if it would be helpful.

After 4 full charge to shutdown cycles, I'm at 1:36:12 on Low. Supposed 4400mAh 4 cell battery pack. Haven't tried "Hi" yet. Button is green plastic colored; no change to red before dying.

Questions: 
1) Is this in the ballpark of what other people are getting or am I running short?

2) After the light shut itself off, I plugged it into the charger for about 5 seconds, and then took it off. Connected it back up in the light ran fine for about 30 seconds. I pulled it off after that, because I didn't want to damage the battery pack by draining it to far. At the same time, I've read about "resetting" the battery pack by plugging it in briefly. 

Could someone better describe this process if it will give me extra battery life without damaging the batteries?

3) Is there an aftermarket pack that is recommended at this point? The other option is just for me to buy a 2nd light, leave it strapped to my road bike, and then use the 2 packs together when I go out for longer rides.

Thanks for your collective knowledge. -Marshall


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

eugovector said:


> After 4 full charge to shutdown cycles, I'm at 1:36:12 on Low. Supposed 4400mAh 4 cell battery pack. Haven't tried "Hi" yet. Button is green plastic colored; no change to red before dying.
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Is this in the ballpark of what other people are getting or am I


On low, that runtime seems way to low. I tested low today and I got 3 Hours 43 minutes. I'm charging the battery now and will do a medium test tonight. High was on par with others results, just over an hour. I suspect medium won't be much longer.

If you are only getting 1.5 hours on low, your battery is really bad, makes our crap batteries look good! 

Maybe it's a charger issue? I haven't used the factory charger yet.


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## eugovector (Nov 21, 2012)

Mr.Grumpy said:


> On low, that runtime seems way to low. I tested low today and I got 3 Hours 43 minutes. I'm charging the battery now and will do a medium test tonight. High was on par with others results, just over an hour. I suspect medium won't be much longer.
> 
> If you are only getting 1.5 hours on low, your battery is really bad, makes our crap batteries look good!
> 
> Maybe it's a charger issue? I haven't used the factory charger yet.


I thought that seemed really low. I'm just using the charger that came with it. What charger are you using?


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

eugovector said:


> I thought that seemed really low. I'm just using the charger that came with it. What charger are you using?


I'm using a rc hobby charger.

Turnigy Accucel-6 50W 6A Balancer/Charger w/ accessories


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Mr.Grumpy said:


> I'm using a rc hobby charger.
> 
> Turnigy Accucel-6 50W 6A Balancer/Charger w/ accessories


Is this kind of charger good for the LED batteries? Such as geminis?


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

mazspeed said:


> Is this kind of charger good for the LED batteries? Such as geminis?


Yes. Though you may need to do some soldering to match the plugs, depending what the gemini comes with. The only other catch, these chargers aren't just plug in and go. You need to set them to the right battery type, voltage and what amp rate you want to charge at. It's really not that hard, if you have the time, tools and patience.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

leaftye said:


> I went with the same type of mount from Action LED. $6 for first class shipping and really fast service. It comes with the screw.


Thanks! Got one on order.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Okay.

Here are my real world run time results with the 3x XML Tri-Clone. The battery is a claimed 6400 mah, but it's not. I ran a number of tests on a discharge cycle I can only pull 2100 - 2300 milliamps from it. My light came from a seller on ebay called rabbitword88.

Low - 3 Hours 43 Minutes, on recharge the battery took 2145 millamps
Med - 1 Hour 16 Minutes, on recharge the battery took 2199 millamps
High - 1 Hour 5 Minutes, on recharge the battery took 2149 millamps

At least I got good run time on low!

So, like others that have posted, this light with a better battery would be awesome! Even an actual 4400 mah battery would be a huge improvement.


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## eugovector (Nov 21, 2012)

Unless something can be done with resetting the battery pack, I will definitely be contacting the seller for a replacement.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

So, is there any difference in the 4400mah and 6400mah batteries. Im going to but ont to mod and will ditch the batteries in favour of somthing else. Probably 8 cells. 

The 4400 lights are a bit cheaper so I will probably grab it.


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## Infinity123 (Dec 11, 2009)

machine4321 said:


> So, is there any difference in the 4400mah and 6400mah batteries.


Probably not. Check out the testresults of Mr. Grumpy and others.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

machine4321 said:


> So, is there any difference in the 4400mah and 6400mah batteries. Im going to but ont to mod and will ditch the batteries in favour of somthing else. Probably 8 cells.
> 
> The 4400 lights are a bit cheaper so I will probably grab it.


Look, just buy a battery from one of the Vendors here on MTB Review. You'll get a better quality battery and some warranty time. Even the standard 4400mAh MagicShine batteries will fair better than this E-smay crap. A good 4400mAh battery should get you about 1.5hr on high ( when used with the TRI-clone ). My 5200mAh ( Bikeray ) batteries get about 2hrs on high.

Since this lamp does not offer any advance warning cutoff features I suggest if you choose to upgrade your battery that you do the following: Buy at least one good 5200mAh battery. That will get you at least 2hrs on high. Then buy a second 2 cell battery for back-up and carry it in your pack on every ride. This way you can't accidentally run out of battery juice.

Now you might think; Why not just buy a 6 cell (?). Yeah, you could do that but you still would not have any light after the pack runs dry. Now if you have another lamp as back-up and trust it to get you out of the woods than fine, get a six cell.

The advantage of doing it the way I said is that once the 4-cell ( good battery ) goes out you have two choices; You can use a "jumper to restart the 4-cell" by hooking it up to the two cell. *Once restarted it should give you at least another 15 minutes on low. ( * Note, this will not work with the supplied battery. On the other hand did work with my 4 cell Bikeray battery )
...*OR*....just hook up the TRI-clone directly to the two cell and get another 45-50 minutes on medium. Simply put once you switch to the 2-cell you use the power setting that you know will get you home. If you know you have at least another hour to ride then you set the light on low and you should have no problems.

It will cost more to buy two separate batteries but would be worth it to know that you won't run out of power for your main lamp. Now like I said before, if you have a back-up light or torch then you don't need the extra battery.

** I'll test my two cell MagicShine battery with the TRI-clone and let you know how long it will run.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

Ok, real world test on the trail this morning. 
3800Lm 3X CREE XM-L T6 LED LED Headlight Headlamp Bicycle Bike Light with a claimed 4400mAh battery
and a Mini Cree Mini CREE LED XML XM-L T6 LED 1600Lm Bicycle Light Bike Lamp HeadLight headLamp with a claimed 6400mAh battery

Both of these battery packs are exactly the same size and weight so I'm possitive the Mini battery is not 6400......oh well......I'll send a note to the seller

The 3x was on my bars and I ran it on Medium for the first 10 minutes before realizing I only needed the low setting, I then ran it for the next 2.5 hours on the trail and back, then the last 10 minutes were on strobe for my commute into work......it still had life left before I unplugged and came to the desk. The light spreads really well and works great on the bars!! Really lights up whats all around you when on low, I love it......and the life is good! Oh, this light gets HOT. be careful!

The mini was attached to my helmet and worked really well to help with upcoming corners, bumps and whatever........I've left in running and it's been 3.5 hours and it's still going strong..........I could have easily ridden with just the Mini, however this was more off a XC trail with a few tech sections, if I was doing anything crazier I'd want to have both lights. I'll "edit" when the Mini quits.

Overall, both batteries are interchangable, so I'm happy with my purchases, for $70 I got two lights with batteries that seem good enough.......I'll be watching the long term life of these and see. Thanks for all the reviews and testing guys/gals!! Much appreciated!


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

digthemlows said:


> then the last 10 minutes were on strobe for my commute into work


What time of day you used strobe while on road? Wasn't it causing instant seasures for oncoming riders/drivers?


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

bobale said:


> What time of day you used strobe while on road? Wasn't it causing instant seasures for oncoming riders/drivers?


it was light out with fog............and yeah, I pointed it down...........not sure why that feature was even put on the light, except maybe "fog" ........ and to create an instant "clubbing" experience.........just add music:thumbsup:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

digthemlows said:


> it was light out with fog............and yeah, I pointed it down...........not sure why that feature was even put on the light, except maybe "fog" ........ and to create an instant "clubbing" experience.........just add music:thumbsup:


It's one of those things that the Chinese still haven't gotten yet. The strobe function for bike lights needs to be more "low frequency" ( more of a flash and less of a strobe ).

I wouldn't recommend usng a strobe full time but certainly it can be very useful when used for brief periods going through busy intersections.

I use a mini torch at work for when I have to get out of the car and cross a busy road ( at night ). With the mini torch on strobe ( pointing down at my feet ) the reaction by the approaching traffic is undeniable. Every car slows down. Works like a charm. Interestingly, last night I forgot to bring it. Boy what a difference!


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

As an FYI I emailed the seller of the Mini stating that it is not the claimed 6400mAh battery and that I'm dissapointed in not receiving what I ordered.........they responded quickly stating they would send out a new battery right away.......we'll see if it's another 4400mAh? I guess I'll have two as a worse case scenario.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

digthemlows said:


> As an FYI I emailed the seller of the Mini stating that it is not the claimed 6400mAh battery and that I'm dissapointed in not receiving what I ordered.........they responded quickly stating they would send out a new battery right away.......we'll see if it's another 4400mAh? I guess I'll have two as a worse case scenario.


Yup, same thing for me. Should see my other battery next week. I doubt that it will be a 6400 though. But I'll be testing it!


----------



## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

At least you'll have one backup battery. It's a win-win no matter what.


----------



## wjw (Nov 28, 2012)

There's a lot of good info on this thread. I don't know anything about these light systems, but am trying to reverse engineer how they work. The battery packs seem to be nicads. This being my guess due to the 8.4v rating. No idea if they have a regulated output or not. I'm guessing not. I would think the head unit has a buck converter to lower the battery voltage to the LEDs typical 3.1v.
Anyone have an idea if the head unit would work with a 12-14v supply? I'm open to adding an intermediate stage, a 3A buck to lower my supply but would rather run it without one.
Any ideas?
Thanks !


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

Battery pack consists of 2S2P (4 pieces) 18650 Li-Ion cells. On single XML light driver is current limited buck converter, and my guess is here is the same. It probably won't work directly from 12-14V without modifications (input caps and MCU voltage dropping resistor springs to mind).


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Got my light after 2 months of waiting. Claimed 6400mAh battery pack is of course 4400mAh. Mine came with a loose lens so I'll make up a spacer to fix it. Otherwise it rattles. Did some run time tests:

1h:8m on HIGH with original battery 

2h:5m on HIGH with Geoman replacement battery for Magicshine

Guess which one I'll be using. The supplied battery is a joke and only suitable as a backup since it is small and lightweight. 

Chris.


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## Skylinemtb (Nov 12, 2012)

digthemlows said:


> Ok, real world test on the trail this morning.
> 
> Both of these battery packs are exactly the same size and weight.


Likewise, I also got the 3X CREE XM-l T6 from the security store but got the single 'CREE XML XM-L T6 LED Bike Bicycle Light HeadLight HeadLamp 1200LM Gold" via Amazon sold by Able Provider with a claimed 8800 mAh battery. As you might have guessed, it came with a 4400 mAh, same size and weight as the 3X but I haven't tested it's run time. My 3X gets 45-65 min. on medium and drains to dead when left connected after running for a bit.
When I contacted the SecurityStore through Ebay about their poor battery, they said they would give me an $8 credit as they only make $6 on each light sold. I have included the response from Able Provider regarding their claimed 8800 mAh below. They seemed to have missed the point or aren't aware of what they are showing in their own spec's.

I realize we are getting very bright lights for cheap, but maybe we should not give these cloners a "free ride" on our purchase feedback when it comes to their claimed lumens and batteries. I'm sure the legitimate sellers would appreciate more truthfulness on everybody's part.

Reply from Able Provider,

Dear mcc

ours is 4400mah. In this market mainly is 4400mah.

really 8800mah need highly technology , if the technology is not mature . it may unsafe to use this kind of battery.

so take safe into consideration, most of sellers do not use 8800mah battery in practical. our battery could used for 4 hours at least after charging. it is enough for normal use.

hope you understand us. it is not wise for us to get a positive review to send you a 8800mah battery with poor quality and bring dangouse to you.

thanks

Alice
Customer service
Able Provider


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Ok

So did a run time test w/ the GEO 6.0 replacement battery tonight. Did it on medium since I think that is the best use of this light due to high being barely visibly brighter to the human eye. 

So far I'm at 2:43 on medium and another 15 min on low. Unfortunately it's 11:25pm and I need to shower and go to bed. The light was still burning on medium.

I think the best use of this light head which is pretty good for the money is to buy a better battery. The light head is pretty efficient w/ a good battery.

I'll retest on high w/ the 6.0 battery next week.

MB


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> Ok
> 
> So did a run time test w/ the GEO 6.0 replacement battery tonight. Did it on medium since I think that is the best use of this light due to high being barely visibly brighter to the human eye.
> 
> ...


Sounds about right to me. :thumbsup:

I just realized that I actually do own another 4400mAh battery that came with my Xeccon X-12.. Tomorrow I'll hook that up to the Tri-clone just to see how well it works. I figure if it gets over 1hr and 40 minutes on high that would be pretty good.

*Skyline*.....that letter from the seller was too much. I couldn't decide to cry or to laugh.  .._.okay so I'm laughing_.... Even the Chinglish was beyond the pale.

Anyway, so here's the solution...( bear with me  )....Write them back and tell them, " I fixie the technology and the technology is now higher yen". "Please send the better battery so all technology is equal, chop, chop"....:ihih:


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> I just realized that I actually do own another 4400mAh battery


So many hidden treasures at your place Cat.

Be nice to know the current draw with the tri-clone. Can you please measure it next time?

Leonard


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

My power suppy has just arrived, as I decided to buy one sooner. Now I have 600W 5-15V 0-40A PS for testing with LC display to show voltage and current draw. I will post here some measurements, just be patient as I do not have that much time 



MK96 said:


> I am going to buy an adjustable power supply, but in January, so I cannot make test earlier :-(


----------



## James Bass (Nov 29, 2012)

Hi guys. I didn't want to start a new thread, as i'm new here and it could be seen as spam, but I was going to buy one of these, then noticed that there's a quad version which wasn't there a week ago. Is this one going to be more extreme?

ebay.co.uk/itm/4500Lm-4x-CREE-XML-T6-LED-Bicycle-bike-Headlamp-Headlight-Torch-Light-w-6x18650-/261134463628?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cccd3b28c

Is that battery going to be enough? Is it even going to be at those specs? Or a load of BS? It says 4 hours on high?

Does this tri-clone light give double run time on strobe? Anyone tested that? I have a Fluxient 3xU2 and am kinda regretting it now. This clone looks really bright.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

James Bass said:


> Hi guys. I didn't want to start a new thread...


I think that'd be a good idea when discussing a totally different light so that this thread doesn't get confusing.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Well I have Skyray S6, but considering they are the same I did some measurements using PS at 40A at 8.44V for 1 minute each mode:
idle w/ PS turned on: 0.02A
1 LED: 0.58A
2 LED: 1.83A
3 LED: 2.01A
strobe: 1.1A



MK96 said:


> My power suppy has just arrived, as I decided to buy one sooner. Now I have 600W 5-15V 0-40A PS for testing with LC display to show voltage and current draw. I will post here some measurements, just be patient as I do not have that much time


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

James Bass said:


> Hi guys. I didn't want to start a new thread, as i'm new here and it could be seen as spam, but I was going to buy one of these, then noticed that there's a quad version which wasn't there a week ago. Is this one going to be more extreme?
> 
> ebay.co.uk/itm/4500Lm-4x-CREE-XML-T6-LED-Bicycle-bike-Headlamp-Headlight-Torch-Light-w-6x18650-/261134463628?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cccd3b28c
> 
> ...


I believe this is the link to the light you are referring to > 4500Lm 4x CREE XML T6 LED Bicycle bike Headlamp Headlight Torch Light w/ 4x18650. 

I've not seen these before but that doesn't surprise me.. Size looks similar to the triple.

In the battery description it mentions 6400ma. This is not 6400*mAh*. The "H" for hour makes a big difference! Could be the battery supplies 3.2 A to each set of LED's ( but I wouldn't bet on it .. ). No idea what battery is being used but if a 4 cell run time is going to be real short.

There is no mention of the mode's being applied via single LED illumination. That could be good. It does mention a press to hold strobe, That is good.

Like the triple, buyer beware. No telling what you're getting if you buy one of these. Anyone buying one of these needs to start a new thread.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

I plan on getting just the triple head and making a 6200 pack out of 4 keeppowers....
Perhaps I can get 3 hours on high??


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

CdaleTony said:


> I plan on getting just the triple head and making a 6200 pack out of 4 keeppowers....
> Perhaps I can get 3 hours on high??


Actually when you buy the lamp/set you ONLY are getting just the lamp head ( from a realistic standpoint ) as the battery is pretty much crap.

So Tony, why not buy one of these batteries and be the first to give it a review?? :ihih:


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> Actually when you buy the lamp/set you ONLY are getting just the lamp head ( from a realistic standpoint ) as the battery is pretty much crap.
> 
> So Tony, why not buy one of these batteries and be the first to give it a review?? :ihih:


I just want to get a real battery, although the original MS battery did ok for me, and the geoman replacement gave me 2.5 straight hours on high the other night..
I imagine the triple pulls alot more power....so I might shoot for 2s2p with the Kp's....
If he sells the triple head any cheaper without the battery or mounts, I am ahead by that much.


----------



## Skylinemtb (Nov 12, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> There is no mention of the mode's being applied via single LED illumination. That could be good. It does mention a press to hold strobe, That is good.
> 
> Like the triple, buyer beware. No telling what you're getting if you buy one of these. Anyone buying one of these needs to start a new thread.


Cat,

Based on the translation issues, I wouldn't bet on anything that is said in description. My single also said you have to press and hold for strobe, but in fact that's not the case. It just cycles through strobe like the other settings.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Skylinemtb said:


> Cat,
> 
> Based on the translation issues, I wouldn't bet on anything that is said in description. My single also said you have to press and hold for strobe, but in fact that's not the case. It just cycles through strobe like the other settings.


Yes, that is of course quite possible. The E-smay sellers do tend to misrepresent more so than what one would expect. A real PITA it is to not get what you thought you were buying. ...."you's lays your moneys down and you's take your chances" "Roll them dice and hopefully they don't come up Snake eyes".


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Xeccon said:


> In the interest of reducing shipping cost and promoting Xeccon 6600mAh batteries, we are arranging limited number of these batteries in Neoprene pouch as pictured shipped to Bloomington IN this week.
> 
> This offer is for US customers only. Price is USD 49.00 including USPS delivery. Xeccon 6600mAh Battery Special
> 
> ...


Having seen this battery mentioned several times as an alternative power source for the Tri-Clone I thought I'd post my impressions.

1) I did a run-time test with a Gemini Olympia lighthead since its amp draw on high (1.92 per Jim @ Action) is similar to what people are geting with the Tri-Clone. 3 hrs 14 min on high to flashing red, resetting the battery netted an additional 15 min on 50% power.

2) Nice battery bag! The neoprene material is soft (should be easy on frame tubes), water repelant, and the flap/attachment strap is some what elastic so it attaches
solidly where ever you choose to mount it. Battery weight w/bag - 330gm

3) If I were going to use this for endurance racing the 30gm weight advantage and approx. 20% longer runtime of my other 6 cell (Gemini) would justify the price difference (Xeccon - $49 delivered vs Gemini - $107 + del.). For powering a $50 Tri-Clone or my what ever headlight + Titan w/red wide angle lens tail light and y-cable commuter set-up I think this Xeccon battery is a good deal. Thanks again Leonard.
Mole


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

MK96 said:


> Well I have Skyray S6, but considering they are the same I did some measurements using PS at 40A at 8.44V for 1 minute each mode:
> idle w/ PS turned on: 0.02A
> 1 LED: 0.58A
> 2 LED: 1.83A
> ...


Thankyou.

As with my light yours don't have much difference between 2 Leds and 3 LEDs.

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> why not buy one of these batteries and be the first to give it a review?? :ihih:


I have one of those batteries.
It works, but I haven't tested for how long it will last.
Yet, that is.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Let us know how that battery works out.

I also think the 6.6 from Xeccon might be ticket as you know what to really expect and that should run the light on high for close to 3 hrs?? At least medium for 3 hrs which looks like the same amount of light to the eye. I think $49 delivered so not bad for a decent battery.

MB


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HakanC said:


> I have one of those batteries.
> It works, but I haven't tested for how long it will last.
> Yet, that is.


OH! OH! Please do test it. I suspect that it will supply really long run times. It does depend though on what brand cells are being used. I've been looking at reviews on typical 26650 cells and the capacities ( while over-rated a bit ) are still impressive.

I would expect this battery to at least have a "Real" capacity of 8000mAh ( or 8Ah to put it another way ). Any less and they would have to be using the cheapest lowest quality cells made. If I didn't get 3hrs on high using this battery with the Tri-clone I would be highly disappointed.

I just read a review by someone who tested the Trustfire ( 26650 ) 5000mAh cells. Actual capacity using a 3A current draw for the test gave a 4300mAh rating. Not bad. I have a torch on the way that uses the 26650 cells and includes a Trustfire cell in the package. If I like what I see I might just build my own battery using the Trustfire or King Kong 26650 cells.

*@ Cdale Tony;* Thanks for mentioning the Keeppower batteries. I didn't know anyone had yet used the ( 18650 ) Panasonic 3400mAh cells in a protected version. :thumbsup:


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

mb323323 said:


> Let us know how that battery works out.


and


Cat-man-do said:


> OH! OH! Please do test it. I suspect that it will supply really long run times.
> ....
> If I didn't get 3hrs on high using this battery with the Tri-clone I would be highly disappointed.


I have been testing the runtime tonight.  battery
It stayed on max (3 LEDs) for close to 3 hours (2hours55mins)

Edit:
I have measured the voltage of the battery after the light stopped: 0,8V
I then connected the battery to the charger, disconnected it after a minute and measured the voltage again: 6,4V

Apparently it was the protection circuit that stopped the light at 2hours55mins

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

HakanC said:


> and
> 
> I have been testing the runtime tonight.
> It stayed on max (3 LEDs) for close to 3 hours (2hours55mins)
> ...


Hakan, what was the current draw of the tri-clone do you know?

I have been running down the BAK batteries last night with various lights including loading the 6600 running 2 X MJ-808E via a Y and the 4400 using a Y for two S12s. Still trying to determine how long the 6600mAh will run the tri-clone for.

Leonard


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HakanC said:


> and
> 
> I have been testing the runtime tonight.  battery
> It stayed on max (3 LEDs) for close to 3 hours (2hours55mins)
> ...


Okay, not bad. I wish I would of thought to tell you to reset the battery ( when it cuts out ) and continue to run the Tri-clone on low ( one LED ) to see how much longer the lamp would of run with the remaining power.

Anyway, the run time on this battery is about what you would get if you used two 4400mAh ( 4-cell ) batteries so I figure I was pretty close in my estimate.


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Xeccon said:


> Hakan, what was the current draw of the tri-clone do you know?


Sorry, I didn't measure the current draw with this battery.
But I have measured it earlier, with other batteries, and posted it here
http://forums.mtbr.com/9875563-post148.html



Cat-man-do said:


> Okay, not bad. I wish I would of thought to tell you to reset the battery ( when it cuts out ) and continue to run the Tri-clone on low ( one LED ) to see how much longer the lamp would of run with the remaining power.
> 
> Anyway, the run time on this battery is about what you would get if you used two 4400mAh ( 4-cell ) batteries so I figure I was pretty close in my estimate.


It was late and I didn't have the time to do any more run time measurements.

And I will probably not repeat the runtime measurement, I fear that it could damage the light head from overheating.
Last night was VERY cold here, -12 centigrades, but the light was scorching hot to the touch.
(The battery was kept indoors)

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## Infinity123 (Dec 11, 2009)

HakanC said:


> Last night was VERY cold here, -12 centigrades, but the light was scorching hot to the touch.


Yes, hot air is like molasses, and moves very slowly. So without a breeze of fresh air, you actually have an insulating bubble of hot air around your light.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HakanC said:


> It was late and I didn't have the time to do any more run time measurements.
> 
> And I will probably not repeat the runtime measurement, I fear that it could damage the light head from overheating.
> Last night was VERY cold here, -12 centigrades, but the light was scorching hot to the touch.
> ...


I take it you had the lamp outside. While it was cold outside surprisingly the lamp will still get hot if there is no moving air over the light head. You need to use a fan even if the air is cold. I test my lamp indoors ( 74°F. ) with a fan blowing on it and it remained only warm to the touch the whole time.

I use an infrared thermometer to monitor the temperature and I don't believe it got hotter than 118°F ( with fan ).


----------



## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Yes, I had the lamp outside. I was also surprised by how hot the lamp became.
But since I don't have a fan, I will not repeat the test.

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## James Bass (Nov 29, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> Like the triple, buyer beware. No telling what you're getting if you buy one of these. Anyone buying one of these needs to start a new thread.


Think i'm going to leave that one for now. It's double the price of this one, so i'll get 2 instead and do some photos of various setups/comparisons.


----------



## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

securityingstore responded that the triple XML light alone is $37 to the states...I guess thats a good option since it saves me $12 for a battery that would last what, an hour or so?

Either I go 2s2p keeppowers for 6200mah ( 2 parallel 3100 = 6200 right?)
Or I conjure a bar/pocket battery pack out of 2s3p for 9300mah?

Am i figuring it right?
CDT


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

This battery seems to have great run time. I wanted to buy those 5000mAh 26650 TFs that are about 4000-4300, but it is cheaper to buy 18650 TFs 3000 which are about 2600. It is not worth buying even 3400 18650 Panasonics, since they are terribly expensive. I am building my own cell pack from basic unprotected 12x 18650 holders and 2S 15A PCB. I want to build a 2S6P maximum and use it from 2P to 6P depending on run time I want with that voltage monitoring I mentioned earlier. I also have some old notebook batteries so I do some charge/discharge test to determine capacity and usefulness of these cells inside.



Cat-man-do said:


> OH! OH! Please do test it. I suspect that it will supply really long run times. It does depend though on what brand cells are being used. I've been looking at reviews on typical 26650 cells and the capacities ( while over-rated a bit ) are still impressive.
> 
> I would expect this battery to at least have a "Real" capacity of 8000mAh ( or 8Ah to put it another way ). Any less and they would have to be using the cheapest lowest quality cells made. If I didn't get 3hrs on high using this battery with the Tri-clone I would be highly disappointed.
> 
> ...


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hmm yes the difference is very small, I am pretty sure it can be driven harder and put out much more light :thumbsup: Perhaps someone will modify these lights to work better 



HakanC said:


> Thankyou.
> 
> As with my light yours don't have much difference between 2 Leds and 3 LEDs.
> 
> ...


----------



## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

It sure is possible to drive them harder, but I'm not sure casing can dissipate that much heat. Mine single XML light has its LED driven at 1.9A. By changing current sense resistor I got that up to 2.3A and difference in brightness was visible, but increase in heat was almost not worth it. I'm pretty sure triple driver can be modded in the same way.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Can you guys please tell me how do you measure the Amps when the light is working? I would like to measure mine too because i suspect there is something wrong with it...


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

PedroDank said:


> Can you guys please tell me how do you measure the Amps when the light is working?


I have an extension cord that I have 'opened' and I measuer the curent with my Fluke multimeter.
A cord like this one:
5.4mm Male to Female Extension Cable for SKU 29489/30864 (100cm) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

As Hakan said, you need one of those extension cables, or you need some kind of power supply in 7-8.4V range. If you go for first option, you can cut either wire in that cable and put multimeter on their ends. You need to put red multimeter lead in 10A/20A hole and select appropriate range. Be warned though that current will rise as batteries go down.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Ok, thanks i will try to do that. I might have a power supply around the house... I would like to test my battery too (to make sure it is providing the right power), but that will be done once i get a cable like that. 
I really think my MJ 808 clone (claimed 1200lm, when the MJ's says 1000lm but is actually ~650 as tested by mtbr) seams to be weaker than most of other clones i see here claiming to be 1600lumens (dont know how that is possible, though). 

Anyway sorry for the off-topic!


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Quick update.

I recieved the no charge replacment battery for my Tri-clone. Charged and discharged it twice with my hobby charger. 1907 and 1869 milliamperes is all that I could pull out. Ouch! Worse than my first battery. I've emailed the seller and thanked them for good communication and good shipping. I did inform them that they would be getting neutral feedback as I feel the product isn't as described.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I swa that too. I am also waiting for a replacement battery. Mine pulls out 1700 mAh untill 3V during discharge on a hobby charger. But I also saw that there is a huge gap between the 1st and 2nd series - about 300mV at about middle of the discharge process. It is the PCB that cuts out the source due to exhausted half of the pack. Perhaps one should combine two packs to get some more reliable pack and the bad cells throw away for recycle.



Mr.Grumpy said:


> Quick update.
> 
> I recieved the no charge replacment battery for my Tri-clone. Charged and discharged it twice with my hobby charger. 1907 and 1869 milliamperes is all that I could pull out. Ouch! Worse than my first battery. I've emailed the seller and thanked them for good communication and good shipping. I did inform them that they would be getting neutral feedback as I feel the product isn't as described.


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

*10 Ah battery now at KD*



Cat-man-do said:


> why not buy one of these batteries and be the first to give it a review?? :ihih:


Perhaps this is old 'news', but KD now sells a similar 4 x 26650 8,4V/10Ah battery, and it is a little cheaper too 25.39 USD
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020905

Please note:
I have no personal experience of the KD battery, ie I don't know if the contacts will fit.

My runtime test of the LT-box battery is here:
http://forums.mtbr.com/9928237-post235.html

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HakanC said:


> Perhaps this is old 'news', but KD now sells a similar 4 x 26650 8,4V/10Ah battery, and it is a little cheaper too 25.39 USD
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020905
> 
> Please note:
> ...


Thanks Håkan....Good find on the KD battery. I have a feeling that these 26650 batteries are going to be coming out of the woodwork. The KD battery is listing as 12000mAh. At first I thought there was no such thing as a 6000mAh 26650 cell. A quick search proved me wrong. It seems there is an 6000mAh cell and a 6300mAh cell! However both of these cells are _*something*- fires_....Ultrafire...Tangsfire...you get the idea. I haven't had a chance to check reviews but I expect actual mAh rating is likely around 4200mAh but I could be wrong on that.

Still, can't beat the price. If you need a long running battery and don't mind the extra weight of the 26650's then these could be your ticket to ride. Just keep in mind that you will need a battery bag big enough to carry them. So far I have yet to see one being sold with the bag included. Now if you happen to have some old bags left over from the old NiMh batteries; those should be big enough to hold the 4 cell 26650 battery.

Last week I received my first 26650 torch. It's using the Trustfire 5000mAh cell. I'll get back with the run time once I get a chance to play with it. :thumbsup:


----------



## jsigone (Aug 25, 2004)

pulled the trigger on this from Amazon, $58 overnight shipping. Can't wait to try it out on friday.


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## freebird74 (Jun 28, 2005)

Hi. Firstly, thanks to all for a very good info on this 3-clones. Secondly - what do you think about set like this? Any experience with this?

(sorry, I can't post links, so please just paste the whole name and search for it)

3 x Cree XM-L T6 4-Mode Bicycle Light (with battery set and charger) kaidomain - $25.39
4 x 26650 Battery Set for Bicycle light kaidomain - $47.93

Battery set is claimed to have 12000mAh, but even if it is only half of that - for $25 it would be a steal. I guess...

I haven't owned LED light yet - is it possible to just simply swap the original battery (famous "4400mAh") with this 4x26650? And will the charger from the original set do?


----------



## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

freebird74 said:


> Hi. Firstly, thanks to all for a very good info on this 3-clones. Secondly - what do you think about set like this? Any experience with this?
> 
> (sorry, I can't post links, so please just paste the whole name and search for it)
> 
> ...


If you want to go that route I would e-mail them and see if they could upgrade the battery in the lamp kit to the 26650 battery for a nominal fee.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ironbrewer said:


> If you want to go that route I would e-mail them and see if they could upgrade the battery in the lamp kit to the 26650 battery for a nominal fee.


I suppose you could do that but that would mean more waiting for a special order. If it were me I'd just go ahead and order both right from the get go. Dont' be surprised if the standard battery shipped by K/D is a normal battery. Even so It will likely only run the tri-clone about 1.5 hr. Can't hurt to have an extra battery.

The 26650 battery should get you your longer run time but you will still need a battery bag to use the battery on your bike.


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## freebird74 (Jun 28, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> I suppose you could do that but that would mean more waiting for a special order. If it were me I'd just go ahead and order both right from the get go. Dont' be surprised if the standard battery shipped by K/D is a normal battery. Even so It will likely only run the tri-clone about 1.5 hr. Can't hurt to have an extra battery.


Sure, you're right. I have asked about the possibility to swap these batteries, will see.



> The 26650 battery should get you your longer run time but you will still need a battery bag to use the battery on your bike.


What about making battery set on my own which would be probably much better than the ones mentioned above? Is it just connecting four batteries or more complicated? There are very reliable batteries (tested by guys from budgetlightforum): 
Kingkong INR26650E
Capacity: 4000mAh-4200mAh
Full charge: 4.2V
Nominal voltage: 3.7V
Cut-off: 2.75V
Weight: 89g

They go even beyond given capacity.

Should they be protected or not for DIY?


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

freebird74 said:


> Should they be protected or not for DIY?


A question that has been asked and answered many times. My response, and not trying to sound like a dick, if you need to ask, you don't know enough about li ion to use unprotected cells.

I use mostly unprotected cells salvaged from laptops. I run them in holders, charge them individually, frequently check voltage, and use a quality driver with voltage monitoring ability. This has served me well for about 4 years now. When I sell a light to someone, it goes with an assembled pack, with protection circuit, and a dedicated charger. Don't want to be responsible for someone having a li ion incident.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

freebird74 said:


> *What about making battery set on my own which would be probably much better than the ones mentioned above?* Is it just connecting four batteries or more complicated? There are very reliable batteries (tested by guys from budgetlightforum):
> Kingkong INR26650E
> Capacity: 4000mAh-4200mAh
> Full charge: 4.2V
> ...


Yes you could buy some KK cells and make your own battery but are the KK cells really going to be that much better than the cells in the K/D set-up? :skep:
Now if you could buy a Panasonic quality cell in a 26650 and get a real 5000mAh ( or better ) per cell than building a better battery might be worth a go. Otherwise I'd just go with the K/D and take my chances.


----------



## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yes you could buy some KK cells and make your own battery but are the KK cells really going to be that much better than the cells in the K/D set-up? :skep:
> Now if you could buy a Panasonic quality cell in a 26650 and get a real 5000mAh ( or better ) per cell than building a better battery might be worth a go. Otherwise I'd just go with the K/D and take my chances.


Keepower 26650 is built around a Panasonic or Sanyo cell. You would think it would have a higher capacity, but it doesn't. King Kong's are just fine if you don't need protection. They've had consistent quality, which is a decent indication that they're not recycled cells like Ultrafire batteries and probably most of the cells that come in our Chinese bike lights.


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

leaftye said:


> Keepower 26650 is built around a Panasonic or Sanyo cell. You would think it would have a higher capacity, but it doesn't. King Kong's are just fine if you don't need protection. They've had consistent quality, which is a decent indication that they're not recycled cells like Ultrafire batteries and probably most of the cells that come in our Chinese bike lights.


Where do you find these batteries? It appreciate it if you post up a link.

Thanks in advance


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

ironbrewer said:


> Where do you find these batteries? It appreciate it if you post up a link.
> 
> Thanks in advance


Kumabear on BLF. He's in the US, so shipping is very quick in the US. It looks like he's currently out of Keepower 26650 protected batteries, but has protected King Kong batteries. I wouldn't hesitate to buy and use King Kong 26650's...I already have a couple.

Here's the comment thread.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, QUESTIONS and COMMENTS from and for Your BLF BATTERY SUPPLIER | BudgetLightForum.com

Here's the order thread.
ONLY BATTERY ORDERS for YOUR BLF US-BASED BATTERY SUPPLIER | BudgetLightForum.com

As you might see there, I've bought from Kumabear. I plan to buy more cells from him early next year.


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## jsigone (Aug 25, 2004)

looks like i have to take apart the version I got today. Single LED works fine, but when switching to Med,it flashes then turns off. Some tapping on the side housing, it works til I hit the next big bump. Thinking pinched wire or solder joint. Other then that and WHEN it worked on Hi, I'm impressed. Low mode was fine too, I had my mityX400 on the bars so the combo worked out. It puts out about the same if not a tad but more spill. I need this new battery pack so I can run on Hi for my entire 2hr ride.


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## jsigone (Aug 25, 2004)

jsigone said:


> looks like i have to take apart the version I got today. Single LED works fine, but when switching to Med,it flashes then turns off. Some tapping on the side housing, it works til I hit the next big bump. Thinking pinched wire or solder joint. Other then that and WHEN it worked on Hi, I'm impressed. Low mode was fine too, I had my mityX400 on the bars so the combo worked out. It puts out about the same if not a tad but more spill. I need this new battery pack so I can run on Hi for my entire 2hr ride.


Fixed a cold solder joints but that wasn't the problem. Changed out R1 for a 0 ohm resistor and works like a charm in all modes now.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

HakanC said:


> Perhaps this is old 'news', but KD now sells a similar 4 x 26650 8,4V/10Ah battery, and it is a little cheaper too 25.39 USD
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020905
> 
> Please note:
> ...


Has anyone tried the Kaidomain battery pack?
( sorry if I missed it in the thread)


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Perhaps this is old news, but KD now sells the Tri-Clone 3 x XM-L lamp for 43,56 USD
http://kaidomain.com/product/Details.S020615

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## J-Dubya61 (Jan 10, 2013)

I couldn't tell what size baterry pack Kaidomain are including, do you know?
jW


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Unfortunately it looks like only a 2x18650 battery (scroll down to see the battery)








Big pic: https://manager.kaidomain.com/UploadFiles/634837873503530000.jpg

But KD also sells a bigger battery for only 25,39 USD
https://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020905

/Håkan 
SWEDEN


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## freebird74 (Jun 28, 2005)

I have just written to ask them about it. 

Do you know if there's any difference in regards of customs between registered and regular air mail?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I just paid the same on Ebay with securityingstore
So prices are coming down.
I did just order the Kaidomain battery...


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Well, you can post the battery runtime here :thumbsup: I bet the capacity is about 8Ah



the mayor said:


> I just paid the same on Ebay with securityingstore
> So prices are coming down.
> I did just order the Kaidomain battery...


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## Skylinemtb (Nov 12, 2012)

*3X CREE SM-L Battery Dead already*

Just an FYI,

I ordered the 3800Lm 3X CREE XM-L T6 LED LED Headlight Headlamp Bicycle Bike Light ( 320985696278	from Securityingstore via EBAY back in Nov. for $48.63 including shipping.

While the light worked great, the battery is now dead and won't take a charge. When plugged into the charger, it appears green as if good. It probably went through 8 charging cycles before dying. I have heard of folks resurrecting these, any ideas would be appreciated.

I had ordered the 4 x 26650 Battery Set for Bicycle light from Kadioman as a backup but I guess it will be the main battery when it arrives. Anybody know how long shipping is from Kadiomain. Their track order doesn't provide any info.

I also ordered the CREE XML XM-L T6 LED Bike Bicycle Light HeadLight HeadLamp 1200LM Gold from Able Provider via Amazon $38.93. The battery was not the 6400 mAh claimed and they sent me another when I asked them too. They still haven't changed the specs though. Unfortunately the batteries for these 2 lights are different voltages and not interchangable. But it is a nice combination of spot for the helmet and 3x for the bars.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

So what's the general consensus on this light? From what I'm reading the light is pretty good, but it comes with a sub-standard battery. The battery is pretty much useless. Is that right?

These things are getting cheaper, $43.64 from a USA based warehouse:
3800Lm 3X CREE XM L T6 LED LED Bicycle Bike Light Headlight Headlamp | eBay


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

varider said:


> So what's the general consensus on this light? From what I'm reading the light is pretty good, but it comes with a sub-standard battery. The battery is pretty much useless. Is that right?
> 
> These things are getting cheaper, $43.64 from a USA based warehouse:
> 3800Lm 3X CREE XM L T6 LED LED Bicycle Bike Light Headlight Headlamp | eBay


That's the same one I just ordered.....I don't think it's a US warehouse though???
And I ordered a Kaido battery that Hakan linked...
We'll see how every thing works.
The prices are crazy....
I think I paid over $200 for a Vista set up back in the early 90's that was like a birthday candle.
I then dropped a wad on a Nitesun in the mid 90's that was killer at the time
Then about 400 on a Nite Rider Moab HID around 2005
Now I bought 2 lights and a extra battery for $130.


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## Skylinemtb (Nov 12, 2012)

*3x-cree-xm-l-t6-led*



varider said:


> So what's the general consensus on this light? From what I'm reading the light is pretty good, but it comes with a sub-standard battery. The battery is pretty much useless. Is that right?
> 
> These things are getting cheaper, $43.64 from a USA based warehouse:
> 3X CREE XM L T6 LED LED Bicycle Bike Light Headlight Headlamp | eBay[/url]


I think all have said to expect little from the battery that comes with this light. It hasn't measured up to the 4400 mAh stated. Since this is that same seller that I got mine from, and judging by the expected delivery dates (a 2 week time period), I wouldn't trust the shipping from the US statement that is in the link above. Seems like they are giving themselves 2 days to process order and 2 days for expedited shipping. 4 days from in the US, seems bogus to me.

Also, these guys said they would send me a replacement battery when I first got it, as it didn't measure up, but they never did.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

If that ebay vendor has done what you said by shipping from out of country and not sending the promised spare battery, I hope you are still able to grant the rating that seller deserves. Probably not though. That's what I hate about ebay. Bad sellers get inflated undeserved ratings. I like Amazon much better for this reason.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

leaftye said:


> If that ebay vendor has done what you said by shipping from out of country and not sending the promised spare battery, I hope you are still able to grant the rating that seller deserves. Probably not though. That's what I hate about ebay. Bad sellers get inflated undeserved ratings. I like Amazon much better for this reason.


I agree completely. A while back I tried to contact a seller on ebay when one of my lamps had a problem. The people never answered any of the emails I sent. I tried to go back on ebay to find the vendor so I could rate him negatively but I couldn't even find him. 

E-bay is a joke. Yes, there are some good vendors and some good bargains but you take your chances. I like paying through Paypal so if anything goes wrong you can complain to them. Last but not least if you pay with a credit card you can complain to the CC company if you didn't get what you paid for and are not getting a response from the vendor. No vendor want's to mess with the Credit card companies believe me. Mess with them and they cut you off. If you try to pay with a CCard and the vendor tells you they can't accept your Master Card but can accept your Visa ( or vice versa )....consider that a warning. That means one of the Card companies cut them off more than likely.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Yeah, cheap when everything else of quality is 2 to 3 times the price is also a warning. So far I'm gonna guess I've had 2 MS lights and 2 clones. The MS's are dead. The 808 clone battery just bit the dust, 1 year old but at 30 bucks I guess 1 year was good. The light head works tho. The tri clone works but battery was a joke so really this light head wouldn't be working w/o the 6.0 GEO battery I had.

My Dinotte XML-3's are working fine, 2nd year.

I do need a new helmet light but am going no cables. Anybody know the best one. Cat, what you think. Was thinking the new Cygo Expellion 700. Anything brighter and smaller. When is Dinotte going to enter the cable less light game???

MB


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> ....I do need a new helmet light but am going no cables. Anybody know the best one.* Cat, what you think*. Was thinking the new Cygo Expellion 700. Anything brighter and smaller. When is Dinotte going to enter the cable less light game???
> 
> MB


Not really sure how the new breed of self-contained lamps work as helmet lamps. My concern would be the type of beam pattern they might provide as I like a more spot setup for the helmet.

Personally when I go wireless on the helmet I just use a Ultrafire 501-B drop-in torch with XM-L 3-mode drop-in. This sits on my helmet really well and is so light-weight that I don't even know it's there. Sadly, with all the fancy vent designs on the newer helmets most people would not be able to use a torch for the helmet without doing some major rigging. ( My helmet is more than fifteen years old. If it ever dies on me I will miss it so much I will probably give it a funeral. :smilewinkgrin: )

If I was in the market for a helmet light that was light-weight, low profile and could be used without wires going off the helmet I would consider the Gloworm X1. No, I don't own one but the reviews are favorable and the set-up ( with two cell Panasonic battery ) can be mounted completely on the helmet. I've used a Gloworm X2 on the helmet with two cell and it is very light-weight / low profile setup as well. The X1 should be even lighter and the people who are reviewing the light say it out-throws the X2 ( with a more confined beam pattern ).


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Not really sure how the new breed of self-contained lamps work as helmet lamps. My concern would be the type of beam pattern they might provide as I like a more spot setup for the helmet.


(Perhaps this should be in a thread of its own?)

I am with Cat here.

Therefore i wonder if anybody have tried any of the new zoomable lamps that both DX and KD sells?
UltraFire Cree XM-L U2 1200lm 3-Mode White Zooming Bike Light Headlamp - Black (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/Details.S020897
068B Cree XM-L T6 600lm 5-Mode White Light Zooming Headlamp - Black (1 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

On paper they both looks good, but since I have more then enough of lamps for my own use I wan't to know more about them before I buy another lamp.

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

These "high capacity" e-bay/dx/kd 2S2P batteries are very popular  Every item has them and they are proven to be trash with max. 1400mAh/cell. They have to sell the lights without battery :thumbsup:



HakanC said:


> (Perhaps this should be in a thread of its own?)
> 
> I am with Cat here.
> 
> ...


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my earlier post, I know that the batteries are next to worthless.
I was wondering more about the lamp and the quality of it.

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ah, now I see. It seems like they will have a floody pattern in common. So they obviously won't throw much. The one with U2 seems to be the best.



HakanC said:


> Sorry if I wasn't clear in my earlier post, I know that the batteries are next to worthless.
> I was wondering more about the lamp and the quality of it.
> 
> /Håkan
> SWEDEN


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

HakanC said:


> (Perhaps this should be in a thread of its own?)
> 
> I am with Cat here.
> 
> ...


I've always wondered how these lights would look like when commuting. Because they are zoomable the beam pattern would always have a constant shape without any spill. That would be good if the light was at the right angle to illuminate the road without blinding drivers. Perhaps it would work like those lights with Germany's StVZO approval... I would like to test that...

I've seen some videos on youtube about zoomable lights and they should work as I've previously said. This could be interesting for me...


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

HakanC said:


> (Perhaps this should be in a thread of its own?)
> 
> I am with Cat here.
> 
> ...


I have tried the first one (the u2), and I like it. I use it as my helmet for spot duties. I use the popular 3x xml for the bars and the combo is working really pretty well for me. The zoomable uses aspheric lenses and I did a bit of research before purchasing. There is some info in the DIY forum about them, and a few custom jobs. The idea behind them is cool, and I liked the idea of being able to adjust the beam.

In practice I run the beam pretty tight, and it out throws my 3x by some distance. Too tight on the beam though and the pattern is pretty much a square, the led shape really. I back it out so the square pattern is just gone, and i get a nice BRIGHT spot to help illuminate down the trail where my 3x won't quite reach. Fully out in flood mode, it's a very wide, very distinct circle, with little throw.

I'll try to create some beam shots and post them, but I can say I'm quite satisfied with the light.

Oh, as we know these Chinese batteries are crap generally, but this light's battery has done well for me on over 1.5 hour rides without failing or stepping down power. I guess the U2 being more efficient may help a crappy battery perform better.

I bought on the 'bay and had posted a thread about these lights a few weeks ago. Search 'zoomable'


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

I just saw your post and dig into other DIY topics regarding the aspheric and asymetrical reflector (RITA-A's from ledil: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/interesting-new-reflector-ledil-778569.html) There are also beamshots of that reflector in the beamshot's fixed topic of that subforum.
I would also like to see a headlight with that reflector to test in on the road. Getting bored of all those lights...we need innovation in reflectors to get nice lighting for the road. 
Anyway this is getting off topic...


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## J-Dubya61 (Jan 10, 2013)

I have no electrical/electronics knowledge or ability. If you buy a separate battery pack, how do you assure compatibility?

I recently purchased a u2 setup from ebay from brotherhaung(?) how do I check if the battery pack is the 6400mah as advertised?
jW


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

You can simply multiply Current and Time - 6400 mAh means the battery will last for 1 hour if the light consumes 6.4A current. BTW I bought from this seller 3XML too and do not expect 6400mAh. 1st battery ran 25 minutes and he sent me another which lasts hour and 20 mins. You wont get proper battery, although he is able to send you another for exchange :-( Just buy some packs advertised/mentioned in this thread and you have no problems :thumbsup:



J-Dubya61 said:


> I have no electrical/electronics knowledge or ability. If you buy a separate battery pack, how do you assure compatibility?
> 
> I recently purchased a u2 setup from ebay from brotherhaung(?) how do I check if the battery pack is the 6400mah as advertised?
> jW


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## J-Dubya61 (Jan 10, 2013)

Thanks, how much current does a U2 lamp draw?
jW


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Basically the same as T6 with either 1 or 3 leds, but you better search the forum for reviews of ebay lights :thumbsup:


J-Dubya61 said:


> Thanks, how much current does a U2 lamp draw?
> jW


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

bad andy said:


> I bought on the 'bay and had posted a thread about these lights a few weeks ago. Search 'zoomable'


Thankyou

I found your thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/thoughts-zoomable-headlamps-aspheric-lenses-823858.html

Please create some beam shots and post them in that thread, if you don't mind.


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## Fuzzy Dunlop (Jan 3, 2013)

Any consensus yet on a decent replacement battery for the 3800lm 3x XML T6 eBay clone? 3 hours minimum runtime is a reasonable demand to make from a battery IMO. $43 for the light, plus $30-ish for the battery is a bargain – or is it all too good to be true?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

IF you want a bit DIY, this might be a solution



Fuzzy Dunlop said:


> Any consensus yet on a decent replacement battery for the 3800lm 3x XML T6 eBay clone? 3 hours minimum runtime is a reasonable demand to make from a battery IMO. $43 for the light, plus $30-ish for the battery is a bargain - or is it all too good to be true?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MK96 said:


> *These "high capacity" e-bay/dx/kd 2S2P batteries are very popular  Every item has them and they are proven to be trash with max.* 1400mAh/cell. They have to sell the lights without battery :thumbsup:


*Please, please!*....do not group the ebay lamp / battery sellers in with the stuff you buy directly from China ( from a Chinese web site.) "Deal Extreme".."Kaidomain" and other Chinese web sites need to be judged by their own merits ( or faults ). A lot of people have bought directly from the Chinese web sites over the years and there have been few complaints about the batteries.
I'm not saying they're the best quality but no where near as bad as what some ebay sellers are selling. Now if someone bought a Tri-Clone directly from the Chinese web sites and got a bum battery I'd like to hear about it.

Quoted by *Bad Andy*:


> ...I have tried the first one (the u2), and I like it. I use it as my helmet for spot duties. I use the popular 3x xml for the bars and the combo is working really pretty well for me. The zoomable uses aspheric lenses and I did a bit of research before purchasing. There is some info in the DIY forum about them, and a few custom jobs. The idea behind them is cool, and I liked the idea of being able to adjust the beam.
> 
> In practice I run the beam pretty tight, and it out throws my 3x by some distance. Too tight on the beam though and the pattern is pretty much a square, the led shape really. I back it out so the square pattern is just gone, and i get a nice BRIGHT spot to help illuminate down the trail where my 3x won't quite reach. Fully out in flood mode, it's a very wide, very distinct circle, with little throw.
> 
> I'll try to create some beam shots and post them, but I can say I'm quite satisfied with the light...


These new adjustable aspheric lamps are interesting. Pardon me for going off subject a moment but since you are the first to say they own one I have a couple questions: Do you get any secondary rings from the lamp beam pattern when adjusted to a tighter beam pattern? The reason I ask is because I've owned a couple of the adjustable zoom torches and I found those to be just junk. The beam pattern on those have just hideous secondary rings in the beam pattern that are very distracting.


----------



## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Cat-man-do said:


> These new adjustable aspheric lamps are interesting. Pardon me for going off subject a moment but since you are the first to say they own one I have a couple questions: Do you get any secondary rings from the lamp beam pattern when adjusted to a tighter beam pattern? The reason I ask is because I've owned a couple of the adjustable zoom torches and I found those to be just junk. The beam pattern on those have just hideous secondary rings in the beam pattern that are very distracting.


I do some beam shots next time I'm out for a ride, but to describe from memory... When beam pattern is tight, for spot/long throw I didn't really notice any specific rings, it's a fairly smooth transition from hotspot center to outside edge. Bear in mind through when really really tight, the hotspot is a square and very discernible. As mentioned earlier, I tend to adjust so its tight, but just rounded off the square. Now when fully adjusted out in flood mode, there is a very distinct ring on the edge. Not multiple rings, just one really noticeable one. Again, I'll try to do some beam shots to help illuminate (hah, a pun!) my description.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

That would be great, bad andy! 
Thank you.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ok, I won't do that again  But have others any experience with the 3XML battery from DX or KD?



Cat-man-do said:


> *Please, please!*....do not group the ebay lamp / battery sellers in with the stuff you buy directly from China ( from a Chinese web site.) "Deal Extreme".."Kaidomain" and other Chinese web sites need to be judged by their own merits ( or faults ). A lot of people have bought directly from the Chinese web sites over the years and there have been few complaints about the batteries.
> I'm not saying they're the best quality but no where near as bad as what some ebay sellers are selling. Now if someone bought a Tri-Clone directly from the Chinese web sites and got a bum battery I'd like to hear about it.
> 
> Quoted by *Bad Andy*:
> ...


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MK96 said:


> Ok, I won't do that again  But have others any experience with the 3XML battery from DX or KD?


I remember reading posts of people who bought lights from DX and KD but not the Tri-Clone light specifically. Still even if you buy the Tri-Clone from DX, KD ( or other Chinese site ) while I expect the battery to be better it still will not give you significantly more run time. Maybe 1.5hr on high at best. Nope, to run a 3 XM-L light you need more capacity, at least 5200mAh. That would get you almost two hours on high. Better would be something over 6000mAh.

The real screw with these Tri-clone lamps is the lack of a low battery warning. At least lamps with blinking red leds when the battery gets low give you something to think about. They ( the warning leds ) won't work the same in cold weather but they're better than nothing.

If I was going to buy another Tri-Clone lamp I likely would buy from a place like CNqualitygoods.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Cat man...what's the difference between that place in your link and the ones on Ebay?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Cat man...what's the difference between that place in your link and the ones on Ebay?


...That is the $54,000.00 question. 

I wish I could answer that with some certainty. The truth is I can't. I know that ebay has a lot of Chinese vendors. Even so not all Chinese are alike. My CAt gut tells me the dedicated Chinese websites are better. Most of the complaints of bad batteries came from people who bought from vendors on ebay. The other Chinese websites have been around a long time. I've bought from DX, K/D, CNquality and the Outdoor Store and have had few complaints. Most of those purchases were for torches and related torch stuff though.

Anyway, FWIW...don't take my word for it that one is better than the other. I could always be wrong. Really, you can only put so much faith in CAt gut intuition anyway. 
I just know I bought a tri-clone from an ebay vendor and the battery sucked. Next time I would buy somewhere else but that's just how I do things. There is the possibility though that you still might get a sucky battery.

You's lays you's money down and you's take your chances. :ihih:


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Interesting that this vendor lists the lumens as 1200. At least they aren't lying about that.


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## Fuzzy Dunlop (Jan 3, 2013)

MK96 said:


> IF you want a bit DIY, this might be a solution


Are there detailed instructions available for doing this mod? I own soldering equipment and am willing to give it a shot, but having no prior experience I need a bit of guidance. The Li-Po batteries sound like a good affordable solution, but what about charging them? Others have mentioned that a specific hobby charger is needed, which adds another layer of cost. Again, these tri-clone lights seem like a great bargain, but not if it requires spending double the cost of the light head on a battery to power it.


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## Skylinemtb (Nov 12, 2012)

*Kaidioman battery*



MK96 said:


> Ok, I won't do that again  But have others any experience with the 3XML battery from DX or KD?


My 8.4 Capacity: 12000mA Kaidomain battery (kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S020905) just arrived to replace the dead battery from my ebay 3XLM clone. I'll try and test it tonight and see how it long it runs. I sure expect better performance as it weighs in at 390g, exactly twice the the original's 180g wt. 
If some folks could recommend a good charger that allows me to see what is going on, I would appreciate it.

FYI, found a new use for the head light this past weekend, extreme sledding after midnight.
It didn't solve all the problems, but at least I saw the car before I hit it:eekster:


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

You can buy from CNQG but you will still lack on things you mentioned here and still have to DIY some small improvements. And next you still want probably more run time than provides the original battery.



Cat-man-do said:


> I remember reading posts of people who bought lights from DX and KD but not the Tri-Clone light specifically. Still even if you buy the Tri-Clone from DX, KD ( or other Chinese site ) while I expect the battery to be better it still will not give you significantly more run time. Maybe 1.5hr on high at best. Nope, to run a 3 XM-L light you need more capacity, at least 5200mAh. That would get you almost two hours on high. Better would be something over 6000mAh.
> 
> The real screw with these Tri-clone lamps is the lack of a low battery warning. At least lamps with blinking red leds when the battery gets low give you something to think about. They ( the warning leds ) won't work the same in cold weather but they're better than nothing.
> 
> If I was going to buy another Tri-Clone lamp I likely would buy from a place like CNqualitygoods.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

No there isn't any detailed instruction. Just take apart the former pack and rescue the protection board. Next you have to solder the the connector (probably JST-XH) to the board (be aware of the polarity of the board and connector colors). The light can be powered with the balance connector. Yes for Lipo you need hobby charger, but that is about $16 and you can go with this and you are able to charge nicd/nimh/liion/lipo/life cells up to 6S - 25.6V. But you need 2S since the pack is 7.4/8.4V



Fuzzy Dunlop said:


> Are there detailed instructions available for doing this mod? I own soldering equipment and am willing to give it a shot, but having no prior experience I need a bit of guidance. The Li-Po batteries sound like a good affordable solution, but what about charging them? Others have mentioned that a specific hobby charger is needed, which adds another layer of cost. Again, these tri-clone lights seem like a great bargain, but not if it requires spending double the cost of the light head on a battery to power it.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I really would like to know how it performs since I think it will be about 8000mAh. Please post some measurements/chage/discharge info 



Skylinemtb said:


> My 8.4 Capacity: 12000mA Kaidomain battery (kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S020905) just arrived to replace the dead battery from my ebay 3XLM clone. I'll try and test it tonight and see how it long it runs. I sure expect better performance as it weighs in at 390g, exactly twice the the original's 180g wt.
> If some folks could recommend a good charger that allows me to see what is going on, I would appreciate it.
> 
> FYI, found a new use for the head light this past weekend, extreme sledding after midnight.
> It didn't solve all the problems, but at least I saw the car before I hit it:eekster:


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Holy crap....they're giving them away now....
2in1 4200LUMEN CREE 3 T6 LED Bicycle Light Headlamp Head Torch Battery


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## Fuzzy Dunlop (Jan 3, 2013)

I think the seller is doing something smart by offering a low starting bid instead of BIN, in order to generate interest; the winning bid could easily end up at or above the $43 current eBay MSRP.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Yeah...it's already up to $41.
But...I got a smoking deal on the Hi-Max U2 light when they did this.
I'm sure the prices will start dropping on the 3x when U2 3x's hit the clone market.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Skylinemtb said:


> My 8.4 Capacity: 12000mA Kaidomain battery (kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S020905) just arrived to replace the dead battery from my ebay 3XLM clone. I'll try and test it tonight and see how it long it runs. I sure expect better performance as it weighs in at 390g, exactly twice the the original's 180g wt.
> If some folks could recommend a good charger that allows me to see what is going on, I would appreciate it.
> 
> FYI, found a new use for the head light this past weekend, extreme sledding after midnight.
> It didn't solve all the problems, but at least I saw the car before I hit it:eekster:


How long did it take to get your battery from Kaidomain?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> How long did it take to get your battery from Kaidomain?


I know you didn't ask me the question but the stuff I got from Kaidomain usually took about 16 days ( as long as the items are in stock ).

On a side note; *The Chinese New Year occurs on Feb. 10th*. When that happens the whole country goes on holiday for about two weeks. If you place an order from a Chinese web site just make sure it is at least a week before the New Year so it doesn't get delayed.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Thanks....
Placed the orders last week...so the waiting game is on.
And hoping the old Niterider lasts a few more rides...


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

And BTW...thanks for all your input here.....some good stuff


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## Skylinemtb (Nov 12, 2012)

*KD battery*



the mayor said:


> How long did it take to get your battery from Kaidomain?


Ordered Dec 27, arrived Jan 14th.

My first test on High was 1hr 55 min. but I didn't charge it before running. I ended up having to use it on a bunch of stuff, so I'll get back to this as soon as I need to charge it again.

MK - thanks for the charger reference.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Skylinemtb said:


> Ordered Dec 27, arrived Jan 14th.
> 
> *My first test on High was 1hr 55 min. but I didn't charge it before running.* I ended up having to use it on a bunch of stuff, so I'll get back to this as soon as I need to charge it again.
> 
> MK - thanks for the charger reference.


Well damn...not bad for a partially charged battery. Usually batteries are shipped with about a 30%-40% charge. Give us the full charge low down when you get the chance.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

It depends, normally at 3.8V/cell is about 50% - also a storage voltage by li-ion/li-po to prohibit the oxidation of electrodes.



Cat-man-do said:


> Well damn...not bad for a partially charged battery. Usually batteries are shipped with about a 30%-40% charge. Give us the full charge low down when you get the chance.


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## Skylinemtb (Nov 12, 2012)

*KD battery*



Cat-man-do said:


> Well damn...not bad for a partially charged battery. Usually batteries are shipped with about a 30%-40% charge. Give us the full charge low down when you get the chance.


Will do Cat. Tried to reply to PM but I don't have enough posts yet. Anyway will get on that as soon as I have a few hours to kill and charge it full. Have been using the light everyday and haven't even been riding yet!

Anybody care if I test it on Medium instead of High first time around. I hardly ever use it on high as it's not noticeably brighter, and I figure it just gets hotter, especially testing. Maybe I'll use the fan this time.

Let me know.


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## freebird74 (Jun 28, 2005)

And what do you think about something like that? 

4 x XM-L with 6x18650 battery pack - $53

search for: 4 x Cree XM-L T6 4-Mode Bicycle Light With Charger and 6 x 18650 Battery Pack kaidomain

Maybe somebody tested it? I'm leaning to it as my friend told me that 4 leds (2 x 2XM-L) is better than 3xXM-L because the different type of the driver (if I translate correctly) which has to be used for 3 leds.


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## JoeJITSU (Jan 18, 2013)

Skylinemtb said:


> Ordered Dec 27, arrived Jan 14th.
> 
> My first test on High was 1hr 55 min. but I didn't charge it before running. I ended up having to use it on a bunch of stuff, so I'll get back to this as soon as I need to charge it again.
> 
> MK - thanks for the charger reference.


In for the real test. Thanks


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I just received my 3X that I ordered from Ebayer securityingstore.
It was shipped from a California address...and ordered on the 9th..got it on the 18th.
Just a quick test in the dark cellar....I can notice the 3 different levels...that may change outdoors.
Compared with my old Niterider HID Moab/ Canibal ( the switch is screwed up....so I don't know which of 3 power level it's on)...the 3x washes out the HID in the 2 higher modes.
Going to charge it up and compare it outside and get a run time later.


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## jsigone (Aug 25, 2004)

Got my 4*26650 battery pack for this light today. I'm glad it came with a bag with a frame strap. Wont get to ride u til next week. Bike is in the shop for a new freewheel.


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## jsigone (Aug 25, 2004)

here's some pics from the 26650 pack I got from LTbox, same connector plug on the other end


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Do you know what it weighs?
I wonder if my battery from Kaidomain will have a bag. I guess I can use the old Niterider bag...and have room for spare stuff...


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## jsigone (Aug 25, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Do you know what it weighs?
> I wonder if my battery from Kaidomain will have a bag. I guess I can use the old Niterider bag...and have room for spare stuff...


sorry no scales, from a website I found the weight of the 18650 is 45grams and the 26650 is 80 grams per cell.

18650 cel x 4 = 180 grams
26650 cell x 4= 320 grams

+ wrap and bag

Probably tad over 1lb for both light head and large battery pack:thumbsup:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

jsigone said:


> Got my 4*26650 battery pack for this light today. I'm glad it came with a bag with a frame strap. Wont get to ride u til next week. Bike is in the shop for a new freewheel.


Glad to hear it came with a bag. No mention of that in the ad unless I missed it. Good to hear it uses a compatible MS plug. I will edit my battery thread accordingly. Can't wait for the tested run time on full power.

I will say it sure does look much larger than the standard 18650 4-cells but at least you get some real usable run time as a trade off for the extra weight.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Finally got a ride in with the 3X I got from Ebay/securityingstore.
Ran it on high for 1:19 and had it on low/med for another 26 minutes. It was low 20s out and had the battery on the stem.
I was going to just leave it on and see how long until it died....but I figure I'll wait for the big battery from Kaidomain...in case I damage the stock battery.
Very happy with a sub 50 dollar light


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Well...I got the Kadiomain battery..
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020905
Not impressed by the Kaidomain battery on the first try.
Charged it with with the charger that came with my 3x XML lamp ( maybe this is the problem?)
Got about 1.5 hours on high with the 3x lamp. It did sit in the car on a cold night...and the next evening....it only lasted another 30 minutes or so. It just shut off( luckily, I brought the stock battery with me...as well as a helmet light)
So about 2 hours on high.
I am going to order a MS charger from Action LED and give it another go.I might even order a battery from them while I'm at it...


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

The lighthead (ie without battery) is now available at DX for USD 30.60
3 x Cree XM-L T6 2400lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Headlamp - Black + Silver - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HakanC said:


> The lighthead (ie without battery) is now available at DX for USD 30.60
> 3 x Cree XM-L T6 2400lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Headlamp - Black + Silver - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX
> 
> /Håkan
> SWEDEN


Interesting that D/X is offering these "minus" the battery. Maybe they were having too many complaints about batteries with, "too little run time". 

On a side note; I just received a very nice "hard shell" version of Xeccon's 6600mAh ( 6-cell ) Li-ion battery. I'll be hooking it up to the Tri-clone and doing a run-test very shortly. Be watching in the "Battery Thread".


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Update on my tri clone from securityingstore:
I noticed a tiny red light inside the power switch during a the ride last night. About a minute later the switch turned all red....and the light died about 2 minutes later.
Not much warning.....but it is a great light for the money.


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

Leonard at Xeccon was kind enough to offer up two hard shell 6600mAh ( 6-cell ) Li-ion batterys to the first 2 people who replied and would do a review. Right now I only have a 1x XM-L t6 light so I figured I would order one of these light head only lights to give the battery a good test. Hope I get it soon.



HakanC said:


> The lighthead (ie without battery) is now available at DX for USD 30.60
> 3 x Cree XM-L T6 2400lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Headlamp - Black + Silver - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX
> 
> /Håkan
> SWEDEN


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

Reply where?


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

The battery thread, but they are already done.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

ironbrewer said:


> Leonard at Xeccon was kind enough to offer up two hard shell 6600mAh ( 6-cell ) Li-ion batterys to the first 2 people who replied and would do a review. Right now I only have a 1x XM-L t6 light so I figured I would order one of these light head only lights to give the battery a good test. Hope I get it soon.


I have that light. The light itself is very good...especially for the price.
I think you are going to be happy with it and the Xeccon battery.....which Catmando said gets 3 hours of run time.
Only the battery life has been an issue. The stock was good for about 1.5 hours...and the Kaidomain is good for about 2 hours. This was all on high output...and I left the light on when we'd stop to regroup. I could have gotten longer run times if I ran it at medium....but I paid for 3 leds and I'm gonna use them.
Can't wait to test the Xeccon


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## whitefro (Feb 7, 2013)

Has anyone had one of these fail yet? Mine has been going strong almost daily for almost 3 months now.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

So far so good with my 3xXML. Knock on wood.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I've had mine for a few months.
Plenty of ride time....and have been using it to test batteries.
I usually have a big fan on it while testing, and have it outside in sub 30F temps....but I lost power for about an hour.
The light head was really hot....too hot to touch....but still kept running.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

So mine works still as well. There have been some issues tho but expected. The battery is a joke but I use a Geoman 6.0 which runs it on high 2 hours approx 2 1/2 on medium or there abouts. The light head snapped off the mount as I was taking it off the handle bars one day. It's plastic and not the best but I super glued it back together. 

As far as heat, mine has never gotten hot. Maybe I got a good one. I was thinking I should buy one of the 4 or 5 LED models but I don't like the idea of a step down due to heat. It'll most assuredly step down when you don't want it to. And then you'll have to wait till it cools off which I know will be a PITA. The 3 LED just keeps burning which is fine. If I ever do burn it out I'll just pay 30 for another. Big deal.

I think the way to buy this set up is w/ a Xeccon 6.6 battery and also buy a single XML clone for 35 bucks and you'll have 2 batteries for the single clone and the 6.6 for the 3 up. The 2 will be more than enough light and very affordable. 30 for the 3 up. 50 for the 6.6 battery and about 35 for the single clone, 115 total.

If you want to go this route. Other more expensive lights are just much better, better beam patterns, etc, etc, etc and on and on. You know the deal.

MB


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> So mine works still as well. There have been some issues tho but expected. The battery is a joke but I use a Geoman 6.0 which runs it on high 2 hours approx 2 1/2 on medium or there abouts. The light head snapped off the mount as I was taking it off the handle bars one day. It's plastic and not the best but I super glued it back together.
> 
> As far as heat, mine has never gotten hot. Maybe I got a good one. I was thinking I should buy one of the 4 or 5 LED models but I don't like the idea of a step down due to heat. It'll most assuredly step down when you don't want it to. And then you'll have to wait till it cools off which I know will be a PITA. The 3 LED just keeps burning which is fine. If I ever do burn it out I'll just pay 30 for another. Big deal.
> 
> ...


Well said MB. There are only two issues that are of concern when using the Tri-clone light head; one, you have to cycle through "flash" and off when cycling through modes. A minor nuisance but it can get tiring if you change modes a lot. The second and more significant problem is the lack of "low battery" warning LED system ( at least with the one I have ). Mine has no led indicators. As such you get no warning at all when you run out of battery juice. This is sad because once that happens you might actually have another 10-15 minutes of run time left to use on the single led setting but because the battery cut-out via the battery PCB you can't restart the lamp. Now if you had a flashing red led warning you of an impending cut-off you could power down to get the most out of your battery before switching to your back-up. ( Not to mention being caught by surprise if your lamp suddenly goes out... )

If someone has a link to a tri-clone that does have LED indicators that would be nice.


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## caedmassey (Jan 28, 2013)

The trails around here are pretty tough in the day but these night rides sound sweet!


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

A couple of new takes on the triple xml on dx.com

Plenty of heatsinking plus a fancy looking design:
HI-MAX LZ-U3 3 x Cree XM-L U3 2500lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light - Black (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme Only

Interesting optics on the lower light, possibly better beam shape and cheap:
LW-JD10 3 x Cree XM-L T6 1500lm 4-Mode White Bike Bicycle Headlamp - Black + Silver (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme Only

I have no idea if these are worth buying.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I think, it is better to try 4 or 5 XML cheapos  But that HI-MAX seems to dissipate heat better than the second LW-JD10. IMHO all 3 XMLs from DX are about the same luminosity. The other side of these lights is that you need to improve them yourself (add low batt indication, change modes, perhaps UI, ...)


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

varider said:


> Interesting optics on the lower light, possibly better beam shape and cheap:
> LW-JD10 3 x Cree XM-L T6 1500lm 4-Mode White Bike Bicycle Headlamp - Black + Silver (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme Only


It seems that KD sells a light with similar optics, but with other LEDs, one XM-l + two Q5 and a higher price: 53,34 USD
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020922



> I have no idea if these are worth buying.


At this time of year, 
it was the shortest night of the year last night and as it was a clear sky it didn't get really dark at all here in Stockholm,
I don't really care right now.
Perhaps in August, hopefully it will be available with XM-L2 LEDs then.

But I will save the DX-link, just in case..

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> A couple of new takes on the triple xml on dx.com
> 
> Plenty of heatsinking plus a fancy looking design:
> HI-MAX LZ-U3 3 x Cree XM-L U3 2500lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light - Black (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme Only....


This looks interesting. I like the look of the HI-MAX Tri. It looks as though they are copying some of things that Xeccon does ( such as the use of red anodizing to add a little flare ).

Also interesting that it is using the XM-L "U3" emitters. When I come home tonight ( from a sweet "Super" full moon ride ) I'll send an PM off to the D/X rep and see if this thing offers "LED voltage indicators". If it does, even with the typical lousy UI it might worth the extra money. And speaking of UI, no mention if these are using the typical 1-2-3 LED type mode set-up ( one extra LED for each mode) or if these are "all leds on full time ) (?)....I'll ask that question too.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks for getting that info, Cat-man-do. The descriptions on dx leave a lot to be desired.

Hakan, that does look like the same light. I never understood what the point of mixing emitters like that. I've seen that a lot on ebay.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I do not like the UI of the KD light: 1 x XM-L T6 > 2 x Q5 > 2 x Q5 Strobe



HakanC said:


> It seems that KD sells a light with similar optics, but with other LEDs, one XM-l + two Q5 and a higher price: 53,34 USD
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020922
> /Håkan
> SWEDEN


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> Thanks for getting that info, Cat-man-do. The descriptions on dx leave a lot to be desired....


D/X rep is looking into it. He will have to get one to look at it. Might take a couple days.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> This looks interesting. I like the look of the HI-MAX Tri. It looks as though they are copying some of things that Xeccon does ( such as the use of red anodizing to add a little flare ).
> 
> Also interesting that it is using the XM-L "U3" emitters. When I come home tonight ( from a sweet "Super" full moon ride ) I'll send an PM off to the D/X rep and see if this thing offers "LED voltage indicators". If it does, even with the typical lousy UI it might worth the extra money. And speaking of UI, no mention if these are using the typical 1-2-3 LED type mode set-up ( one extra LED for each mode) or if these are "all leds on full time ) (?)....I'll ask that question too.


Looking at the pictures on dx.com, I would say it is the typical UI - 1, 2 or 3 LEDs at a time. 
It does look very good in the pictures, though. Lets wait for the confirmation.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> This looks interesting. I like the look of the HI-MAX Tri. It looks as though they are copying some of things that Xeccon does ( such as the use of red anodizing to add a little flare ).
> 
> Also interesting that it is using the XM-L "U3" emitters. When I come home tonight ( from a sweet "Super" full moon ride ) I'll send an PM off to the D/X rep and see if this thing offers "LED voltage indicators". If it does, even with the typical lousy UI it might worth the extra money. And speaking of UI, no mention if these are using the typical 1-2-3 LED type mode set-up ( one extra LED for each mode) or if these are "all leds on full time ) (?)....I'll ask that question too.


Can anyone comment on what the light output and amperage on the Medium setting? I'm mainly interested in knowing what the run time on Medium would be. Trying to weigh this versus the 2 LED models, since I'll likely only be using two LEDs anyway. Also whether I should buy the lights and battery separately? I swear I have been reading all of these threads recently and still have a ton of questions, sigh. I really just want a good bar light with a wide pattern and a reasonable output (1000+ lumens) that can run for at least 2 hours. I greatly appreciate any advice on the matter.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

You can replace the lens to get wide pattern - there are lot of replacement glass lenses on DX.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

steelhmr said:


> Can anyone comment on what the light output and amperage on the Medium setting? I'm mainly interested in knowing what the run time on Medium would be. Trying to weigh this versus the 2 LED models, since I'll likely only be using two LEDs anyway. Also whether I should buy the lights and battery separately? I swear I have been reading all of these threads recently and still have a ton of questions, sigh. I really just want a good bar light with a wide pattern and a reasonable output (1000+ lumens) that can run for at least 2 hours. I greatly appreciate any advice on the matter.


Steel, This HI-MAX Tri is a new lamp so not much user feedback as yet. Still waiting on details from D/X as to special features. Regardless if you buy one I doubt you'll be disappointed with the output. I have one of the original tri-clones and the output ( and beam pattern ) on those were very nice. Since the HI MAX tri is using a brighter XM-L bin ( U3 ) emitter they "should" be very bright.

Batteries will always be a question mark but with my last D/X lamp ( Ultrafire quad XM-L ) the supplied battery was able to power the lamp two hours on high which ( considering where the battery came from ) is not too bad. I figure if you get a good battery from D/X it should get the HI MAX tri somewhere in the 2hr 45 min. to 3hr range _when run on medium._ This assuming you get a battery as good as the one I got.

If you decide to go with a duel emitter set-up if it were me I'd go with one of the Fasttech Solorstorm X-2's. They are using the XM-L U2 emitter and are suppose to have pretty good throw as well. Any multi-emitter lamp you buy should have a beam pattern wide enough to work well coming off the bars.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Steel, This HI-MAX Tri is a new lamp so not much user feedback as yet. Still waiting on details from D/X as to special features. Regardless if you buy one I doubt you'll be disappointed with the output. I have one of the original tri-clones and the output ( and beam pattern ) on those were very nice. Since the HI MAX tri is using a brighter XM-L bin ( U3 ) emitter they "should" be very bright.
> 
> Batteries will always be a question mark but with my last D/X lamp ( Ultrafire quad XM-L ) the supplied battery was able to power the lamp two hours on high which ( considering where the battery came from ) is not too bad. I figure if you get a good battery from D/X it should get the HI MAX tri somewhere in the 2hr 45 min. to 3hr range _when run on medium._ This assuming you get a battery as good as the one I got.
> 
> If you decide to go with a duel emitter set-up if it were me I'd go with one of the Fasttech Solorstorm X-2's. They are using the XM-L U2 emitter and are suppose to have pretty good throw as well. Any multi-emitter lamp you buy should have a beam pattern wide enough to work well coming off the bars.


Cat,

Very much appreciate your feedback. The X-2 was one of the one's I certainly had in mind. I will move the discussion to the Solarstorm X-2 thread to keep this thread for derailing into the dual emitter territory.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

What are the thoughts on this light?http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021404

Is the "XM-L2 U2" a misprint? I'm interested in an L2-U2 setup, but I haven't even seen clones for a 2x yet with that emitter bin.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I'm no expert on the different leds, but I think you can tell the difference between an xm-l versus xm-l2 by the color around the led. Green versus white:

xm-l
Cree Component XLamp XM-L LEDs
xm-l2
Cree XLamp XM-L2 LEDs

The l2 also come in different temperature colors, but I don't know much about that. The do make an xm-l2 u2
https://illuminationsupply.com/bare-leds-c-52_36_88/cree-xml2-bare-u2-1c-tint-6500k-p-279.html

All I know is that the xm-l2 is relatively new product.

The light doesn't seem to have a lot of surface area, no fins, to dissipate heat.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

steelhmr said:


> What are the thoughts on this light?http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021404
> 
> Is the "XM-L2 U2" a misprint? I'm interested in an L2-U2 setup, but I haven't even seen clones for a 2x yet with that emitter bin.


Wow. I just took a look at these over on Kaidomain. Kaidomain has a couple versions. One had some reviews of the "stepless modes" that I found VERY INTERESTING.
The ad's list three modes but also say, "stepless" which is a bit confusing. One of the reviewers explained how it worked. According to him each mode is infinitely programmable ( lowest to highest ). I assume once you have them set that they hold their setting. If this is the case I would LOVE TO HAVE ONE!. YES, IF THESE ARE XM-L2'S EVEN BETTER.

Dang it. I just ordered an SS X2 last night. I'd love to try one of these "Stepless" set-ups out.

( steel, About the Hi-Max we talked about earlier....operates by activating one LED at a time for mode changes, ...no LED voltage indicators. D/X asked if I wanted to review the lamp but I told them no. Not enough features to make it worth my time. )


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Wow. I just took a look at these over on Kaidomain. Kaidomain has a couple versions. One had some reviews of the "stepless modes" that I found VERY INTERESTING.
> The ad's list three modes but also say, "stepless" which is a bit confusing. One of the reviewers explained how it worked. According to him each mode is infinitely programmable ( lowest to highest ). I assume once you have them set that they hold their setting. If this is the case I would LOVE TO HAVE ONE!. YES, IF THESE ARE XM-L2'S EVEN BETTER.
> 
> Dang it. I just ordered an SS X2 last night. I'd love to try one of these "Stepless" set-ups out.
> ...


Cat,

That Hi-Max lamp is sold-out at the moment. Like you though, I am very much interested in the "stepless" feature of this other lamp as well. I'm just worried about the design and the lack of info on the site about this light: circuitry? run time? brand?!? Price seems a little too good to be true, so there is that as well.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

That programmable mode thing sound awesome!

I think sister light heat problems though. 
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/Details.S020710

The one reviewer said


> Thermal bath from pill to case is quite poor, just a small lip where the pill rests, no thermal grease used on this surface.


Sounds like the D99!


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hmmmm, overall these lights have heat "problems". My skyray S6 does not heat that much during ride. The light you gave in link does not have much aluminium fins to dissipate heat - it looks smooth overall :-(


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

steelhmr said:


> Cat,
> 
> That Hi-Max lamp is sold-out at the moment. Like you though, *I am very much interested in the "stepless" feature of this other lamp as well.* I'm just worried about the design and the lack of info on the site about this light: circuitry? run time? brand?!? Price seems a little too good to be true, so there is that as well.


Like all of the tri-clone set-ups heat will always be an issue. If this "other" lamp is truly running XM-L2's the lamp should be brighter than typical tri-clones and the L2' emitters are better at handling heat. With Chinese made lamps you only expect so much. Run time will likely not be so good but sometimes you get lucky and get a better battery. If you get two hours on high you made out. 

The "Stepless" set-up is the real ( bang-for-the-buck ) money issue. If it works like I think it does than ( IMO ) it is worth laying the money down and rolling the dice.

I'll be sending Kaidomain an e-mail about this lamp. I have some questions to ask that only they can answer. Hopefully they will give me the answers I want to hear. At least I know the questions to ask.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Like all of the tri-clone set-ups heat will always be an issue. If this "other" lamp is truly running XM-L2's the lamp should be brighter than typical tri-clones and the L2' emitters are better at handling heat. With Chinese made lamps you only expect so much. Run time will likely not be so good but sometimes you get lucky and get a better battery. If you get two hours on high you made out.
> 
> The "Stepless" set-up is the real ( bang-for-the-buck ) money issue. If it works like I think it does than ( IMO ) it is worth laying the money down and rolling the dice.
> 
> I'll be sending Kaidomain an e-mail about this lamp. I have some questions to ask that only they can answer. Hopefully they will give me the answers I want to hear. At least I know the questions to ask.


Thanks, Cat. Please forward along all information. Night riding season is coming up quickly and I still have to get my 2nd light situation straightened out. I'm 1/1 with Kaidomain so I'll take a (calculated) risk at this point.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Hi-Max triple for $36 (not sure about the shipping charges)

climbing lighting head lamp bike light_Headlamp_HI-MAXMALL


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> Hi-Max triple for $36 (not sure about the shipping charges)
> 
> climbing lighting head lamp bike light_Headlamp_HI-MAXMALL


Good link for the Hi-Max triple! Lots of info on the website as well. It does operate like the other tri-clones though with separate LED illumination for each mode. Good price and with XM-L U3 emitters- a big plus. Two hours run time on high per ad. No voltage/ run time indicators. .

@steel....I'll relay any information I get. Unfortunately I won't get an answer til next week likely as I'm writing the e-mail right now. Anyway in the mean time look over the Chinese sites. Lot's of new stuff coming out. D/X released a triple version of the SS X2 that looks interesting as well. I have questions about that lamp as well.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

They wrote me back very quickly. Answers to my questions from Kaidomain:

1. Is it an actual XM-L2-U2 LED?
it is XM-L2 U2 LED.

2. What is the current draw on each mode?
It is a stepless dimming bike light, the current for highest mode is 3A, for lowest mode is 700mA

3. How long is the run time on each mode?
Run time for highest mode is 1.5h, for lowest mode is 3hrs

I feel like I could live with 1.5 hr run-time on High with a 'stepless' option. Gonna sleep on it and maybe order tomorrow.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

steelhmr said:


> 2. What is the current draw on each mode?
> It is a stepless dimming bike light, the current for highest mode is 3A, for lowest mode is 700mA
> 
> 3. How long is the run time on each mode?
> Run time for highest mode is 1.5h, for lowest mode is 3hrs


Those numbers don't make sense to me. If the minimum current setting is ~25% of maximum then shouldn't the run time on low be about 4X the runtime on high? Do these numbers, if correct, imply that the light is very much less efficient at the low setting than the high setting?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

For what it's worth, I have small review of such light, similar to my 7-LED review posted earlier. If anyone is interested, I can post it (either here or as separate tread, whatever is better).


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> For what it's worth, I have small review of such light, similar to my 7-LED review posted earlier. If anyone is interested, I can post it (either here or as separate tread, whatever is better).


If it is as extensive as your last review, I'd say use a separate thread. Please post a direct link to the one you tested. Look forward to reading it. Thanks!


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Well, here it is:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/triple-xm-l-light-review-873039.html#post10637663


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

varider said:


> Hi-Max triple for $36 (not sure about the shipping charges)
> 
> climbing lighting head lamp bike light_Headlamp_HI-MAXMALL


I have Hi-Max's single U2 light( which is excellent quality). Looks like the same battery...which is a good one.
It will power my 3x clone for about 2 hours.

I think I might try the Kaidomain stepless. Although my original 3x is working fine...it's never a bad idea to have a spare.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

I just placed my order for the Kaidomain 3 x XM-L2-U2 w/ stepless feature. I have their email stating 1.5 hours on High so if I get less than that or the light appears (significantly) under-powered I will take issue. Look forward to see what this unit can do. It will be going on the bar. http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021404


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

steelhmr said:


> I just placed my order for the Kaidomain 3 x XM-L2-U2 w/ stepless feature. I have their email stating 1.5 hours on High so if I get less than that or the light appears (significantly) under-powered I will take issue. Look forward to see what this unit can do. It will be going on the bar. http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021404


Hey Steel, I just looked this thread up again. Sorry, I never did get around to getting in touch with K/D as I got busy and forgot about it. I still have questions so perhaps I'll still send them an email, eventually.

I really do want to know how useful the "stepless" feature will be. If they're telling you the lowest output is 700ma that would still be pretty bright considering that all LEDs are lit ( I assume ).  Truthfully though there is no way to know how this will translate once you start messing with the stepless feature. I hope it works great. I'll be watching hoping for the best. Looking forward to your review.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Hey Steel, I just looked this thread up again. Sorry, I never did get around to getting in touch with K/D as I got busy and forgot about it. I still have questions so perhaps I'll still send them an email, eventually.
> 
> I really do want to know how useful the "stepless" feature will be. If they're telling you the lowest output is 700ma that would still be pretty bright considering that all LEDs are lit ( I assume ). Truthfully though there is no way to know how this will translate once you start messing with the stepless feature. I hope it works great. I'll be watching hoping for the best. Looking forward to your review.


Thanks Cat. Currently waiting out the shipping. Hoping to see it by the end of next week. I'll get some reviews up as they are available. Looking fwd to your reviews of the SSX2. I still may order one with the intention of tearing it down and learning more about LED light. I can always give it to my gf (materials science PhD) who is starting to get into these lights herself. She is drawn in by their power like a moth to the flame. We gush during night rides when I put my 2X in flash mode and light up street signs 250m+ away. {Yes, I am way too spoiled at the moment}


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

New and very nice looking triple on DX
NITEFIRE NFC-31 Cree XM-L U2 2200lm 4-Mode Cold White Headlamp for Bicycle - Black (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

Strobe mode is hidden. It has high, low and medium modes.The battery indicator is similar to a solarstorm x2. It also comes with a blue lens attachment. I'm not sure what that's for.

There's also a quattro for a few more bucks. 
NITEFIRE NFC-41 4 x Cree XM-L U2 2600lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light Headlamp - Black (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

I got my delivery attempt notice today. Trying to schedule pickup at the post office for tomorrow, but I'm having a difficult time getting my request in online.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Looks like they discovered battery indication - but i like that UI on SSX2 - I think it is the best since clones arrived on the market. The lens is fixed by screws - hope the lens does not get cracked after some time. The back side with indication seems to be pretty easy to take apart if you need to fix something inside  The next observation is the design of the reflector(s) - this one seems to be without the classic multi-emitter reflector pattern since there is a separate reflector for each led.



varider said:


> New and very nice looking triple on DX
> NITEFIRE NFC-31 Cree XM-L U2 2200lm 4-Mode Cold White Headlamp for Bicycle - Black (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> 
> Strobe mode is hidden. It has high, low and medium modes.The battery indicator is similar to a solarstorm x2. It also comes with a blue lens attachment. I'm not sure what that's for.
> ...


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Picked up my new 3x light from the post office today. I ordered http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021404, and what I received was that, but it is labeled as a Manta Ray D003: Manta Ray D003 3800lm 3xCREE XML2 Led Bicycle Light Free Shipping-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com. Mine of course does have the 'stepless' feature though.

Just did some comparisons in my basement to my other unit: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021521, which is now $5 less than I paid for it a couple months ago. My very first impression was that the 3x unit was not much brighter than the 2x, but looking closely I can see that the light is much more spread out on the 3x than the 2x. There is a smaller hot spot on the 3x unit, which I wish didn't exist because it kind of throws you off as to the brightness of the rest of the beam. This should make a great bar light, but the beam pattern might be considered ugly by others (not the smoothest transition and the very outer beam is kind of hex-shaped).

The flash mode is hidden (as is the off mode). The flash is slow and comes in at 8 flashes per 5 seconds. I should also note the the length of each flash is very brief (don't have a way to accurately measure this). This is very important to me because on the occasional road rides I use flash a lot (even during the day) and this one should be much more palatable than the normal strobe action I use on the 2x.

The 'stepless' feature is AWESOME and very easy to use. You can use it as a stand alone feature or program one of the 3 main modes. Accessing is very easy as you just hold in the UI button until it accesses the 'stepless mode' (you will know you are in stepless because it goes to the 10% setting and increases by 10% every time you press the UI button). If you want to program one of the 3 main modes, simply go to that mode and then hold the UI button until stepless is accessed (the UI will flash and the output will go to 10%). There are 10 stepless settings to choose from, so just go to the stepless setting you want and then hold the UI button until it cycles through and comes back to that main mode (you'll know you are there because now the UI will only cycle through the 3 main modes. Do that for all three main modes and you are set. I put mine at 40%, 70% and 100%.

Keep in mind this is an out of the box and indoor basement examination. I'll update this as soon as I get it on the trail. Light head weighs 180 grams and battery (with case) is 213 grams. Charging battery now, so I'll get some run times in as well. Not 100% convinced that this is L2 & U2, so I'll have to look into that as well.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

L2 is easy. U2, you'll never know. XML has a green base and XML-2 is white. There is no visual marking to indicate what bin the emitter is. Frankly I'd be amazed if the cheap Chinese lights were really using the premium bins.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks. Run test is not going so well. The light keeps powering down into an emergency mode for 1 minute for every 6-7 minutes of run time on high (started at minute 20). Perhaps the unit is getting overheated? It feels warm, but it's not too hot where I can't place my hand on the unit continually if I wanted.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

steelhmr said:


> Thanks. Run test is not going so well. The light keeps powering down into an emergency mode for 1 minute for every 6-7 minutes of run time on high (started at minute 20). Perhaps the unit is getting overheated? It feels warm, but it's not too hot where I can't place my hand on the unit continually if I wanted.


Do you have it in front of a fan?

Thanks for the info about this light. That UI is probably the best I've ever heard of for a cheap light. Programmable modes, hidden strobe, hidden off, this things has it all. So the hot spot is super tight? Is about the same as a 808E? I'm more of a fan of the larger hot spots.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

steelhmr....do all 3 LEDs stay lit in every mode?
Or is it 1 LED for low/ 2 for Med ? 3 for high?


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

varider said:


> Do you have it in front of a fan?
> 
> Thanks for the info about this light. That UI is probably the best I've ever heard of for a cheap light. Programmable modes, hidden strobe, hidden off, this things has it all. So the hot spot is super tight? Is about the same as a 808E? I'm more of a fan of the larger hot spots.


I had it about 3 feet from a fan running on low. I turned the fan on to medium for a period, but it didn't seem to make a difference. Eventually the light seemed to settle on 5 minutes @100% followed by 1 minute @ [email protected] for the last hour. My run time review is below.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

the mayor said:


> steelhmr....do all 3 LEDs stay lit in every mode?
> Or is it 1 LED for low/ 2 for Med ? 3 for high?


All 3 LEDs are used for every mode, including flash.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Run Test 1:

Temp: 70 deg with high humidity.
Fan: 3 feet from unit run mostly on low
Light: Run on high for entirety of test

As stated above, after the 20 minute mark of the test, the unit would power down to 10% (?) for 1 minute and then go back into 100%. This happened every 7 minutes for a few cycles, then happened every 5 minutes for the last hour or so of the test (before the unit went into emergency battery mode. Here are the results.

0-20 minutes: Run at 100%
21-115 minutes: Unit would power down by an average of 1 minute for every 7 minutes.
115-160 minutes: Unit ran at 10% (?) while the UI button flashed in red. 

Based on the run, it seems like it would have run for 1:40 at 100% and an additional 40 minutes at 10%. The battery is at least respectable in my opinion for powering a 3x unit. Just gotta find out why the unit kept powering down. I can try another test with the fan right up against the unit, but that seems a little unrealistic. I want to see how long I can run it on high in the trails before it cuts out.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

If the unit seems cold or warm from the outside, perhaps there is a poor heat transfer to the alloy case (also that could be the cause of the mode switching in order to lower the heat emission). No matter if you have a fan running or not, it does not influence the result. The light should be taken apart and checked for build quality ... loosen screws,thermal paste, etc  But the UI seems the best so far for a cheapo chinese light


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

So far I like what I'm hearing. Make sure you use a fan. Some lamps will power down when they over heat. 

I doubt the hotspot is as tight as an 808E. Shining around inside the house things look small. My bet is that it is just like the other triple reflector lamps. The one I have has a very nice beam pattern with a nice mix of flood and throw. The UI on these though are the deal maker.

edit: Sorry I missed the part about the fan. Could be the thermal setting is too sensitive. That might be a problem if the high mode is used too long. Could be a deal killer for some people. The next question is; "Will this happen in mid-mode"?


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

MK96 said:


> If the unit seems cold or warm from the outside, perhaps there is a poor heat transfer to the alloy case (also that could be the cause of the mode switching in order to lower the heat emission). No matter if you have a fan running or not, it does not influence the result. The light should be taken apart and checked for build quality ... loosen screws,thermal paste, etc  But the UI seems the best so far for a cheapo chinese light


Maybe this will be the light that I do that on. Can you post a direct link to a quality thermal paste? Thanks.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> So far I like what I'm hearing. Make sure you use a fan. Some lamps will power down when they over heat.
> 
> I doubt the hotspot is as tight as an 808E. Shining around inside the house things look small. My bet is that it is just like the other triple reflector lamps. The one I have has a very nice beam pattern with a nice mix of flood and throw. The UI on these though are the deal maker.
> 
> edit: Sorry I missed the part about the fan. Could be the thermal setting is too sensitive. That might be a problem if the high mode is used too long. Could be a deal killer for some people. The next question is; "Will this happen in mid-mode"?


It's hard to describe. Yes, I really do need to get this to the trail to see how it looks against a real terrain. For a real general overview, I would say that the beam has 3 sections: 1) small semi-triangular hotspot, 2) wide flood, and 3) outer beam. There is a weird halo against the wall between the wide flood and outer beam. The flood is still very bright. It became more obvious how bright it was while comparing it to the 2x.

I will try some shorter tests with a combo of stronger fan and also other modes. In reality, I imagine myself to be using mostly Med and Low settings. High will only be for downhill or fast riding. Need to know that it will last longer than 5 minutes though.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

In my country Arctic Silver or AC MX are good ones :thumbsup: I use AC MX-2, as it lasts quite long - couple of years on a computer processor & cooler unit with 95W+ heat emission.



steelhmr said:


> Maybe this will be the light that I do that on. Can you post a direct link to a quality thermal paste? Thanks.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

steelhmr said:


> ...I will try some shorter tests with a combo of stronger fan and also other modes. In reality, I imagine myself to be using mostly Med and Low settings. High will only be for downhill or fast riding. *Need to know that it will last longer than 5 minutes though.*


I hear ya. No way do you want to be doing a high speed 20-30min mountain descent with lamp on high and have it power down to 10%. That could spell big time trouble.

Another way to handle this might be to by-pass the thermal regulation circuit. The only problem is you might not be able to access it without completely disassembling the lamp. If so it might be more trouble than it's worth but then again your DIY skills might be better than mine.

Too bad you didn't get the original model sold by K/D. I figure they ran out and had to out-source a similar lamp. There was only one review on the K/D website with the original lamp. That person made no mention of there being any thermal issues. If you check that review that person left an e-mail address. You might write them to see if they had any problems with the lamp powering down. If they did maybe they had some way around the issue.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> I hear ya. No way do you want to be doing a high speed 20-30min mountain descent with lamp on high and have it power down to 10%. That could spell big time trouble.
> 
> Another way to handle this might be to by-pass the thermal regulation circuit. The only problem is you might not be able to access it without completely disassembling the lamp. If so it might be more trouble than it's worth but then again your DIY skills might be better than mine.
> 
> Too bad you didn't get the original model sold by K/D. I figure they ran out and had to out-source a similar lamp. There was only one review on the K/D website with the original lamp. That person made no mention of there being any thermal issues. If you check that review that person left an e-mail address. You might write them to see if they had any problems with the lamp powering down. If they did maybe they had some way around the issue.


Thanks Cat. Unfortunately, I don't have any DIY electronics skills, but I'm willing and eager to learn. My gf has a skill set that could lend itself towards figuring out a solution as well. My first course of action though is to email the company.

I believe this to be the exact same case as the pic in the K/D website, just with Manta Ray D003 written on the back. The only difference seems to be the UI with the 'stepless' feature. I had asked the company about there being no name or model associated with the light, and their reply confirmed that.

I will try some other tests including running it at 70% and measure how long it takes or if it even does cut out. I'll try to get it out on the trails for a quick demo tomorrow evening if I can, but my preference is still to ride during daylight if possible so let's see how much time/energy I have afterward.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Trying it outside, it may not step down.
I tried a few lights earlier this year. I had one that would step down with a fan on it at room temp. But riding outside at 70 degrees on slow technical trails....it never stepped down. I would turn it off when stopped because it would get very hot on high.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

steelhmr said:


> ... High will only be for downhill or fast riding. Need to know that it will last longer than 5 minutes though.


steel, Here are some comments added by the reviewer who responded to my e-mail;



> I've found this lamp to be brilliant. I wouldn't say that the dimming is stepless, but having 10 modes to choose 3 from is amazing, and a sensible flash instead of strobe is good too. There's not a lot of flicker in it when dimmed either. I"ve had mine overheat and dim once. (was using it during a powercut, resting on a bed and it dimmed after 15 mins when it got too hot,) but out on the trails, it gets slightly warm to touch, but I usually dim it to minimum power when I stop moving for more than a couple of minutes. Beam angle is perfect for riding.., (I usually use this light on my bars and a spot on my head, but the spot probably isn't really necessary.
> 
> When I first got the light, where the cable exits the body, too much insulation had been stripped, so I pulled it apart, trimmed and re-soldered the wires-they may have been fine without this operation, but I felt happier with a bit more protection at the pinch point where they exit the housing. There was plenty of thermal compound between the stars and the disc behind them, but none between the disc and casing, or around the retaining ring, and not a very large contact area between the disc and case. I smeared a bunch of goop all over those mating surfaces before re-assembling the light, so I can't comment on whether I'd've had any problems if I hadn't.
> 
> ...


additional comments;



> Feel free to quote me. basically with the extra thermal paste, I'm pretty confident it would be very unlikely to overheat as long as your moving. (the only time I had it dim was indoors, on a blanket, and the case was very warm to hot to touch, and I've never felt more than a slight warmth while riding)


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

> So far my riding has been winter in Nelson, New Zealand.., so ~+/- 5degrees celcius (23-41 Fahrenheit) and I usually only flick it onto full power for the downhills, I tend to climb firebreaks/forest roads by starlight, and slow tracks with it at ~50% so I guess it could have problems if you were to ride quite slowly with it on full, in summer, with a tail wind but it really doesn't seem to get too warm at all.


Well I probably do more night riding when it's over 70F, so if this light is overheating indoors I don't think it will stand a chance outdoors. I can't see any light having problems at 41 F or below.

If the only problem is that it doesn't have enough thermal compound, then that's something that is easily fixable. I think the bigger issue is the transfer from the led board to the outside case. Any chance you could have a look at this steelhmr?


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat,

Thanks for passing that along. My intent was to do a quick ride again tonight to test the light, but I just did a ride with a couple of pro riders and all I feel like doing now is eating & sleeping 



varider said:


> Well I probably do more night riding when it's over 70F, so if this light is overheating indoors I don't think it will stand a chance outdoors. I can't see any light having problems at 41 F or below.
> 
> If the only problem is that it doesn't have enough thermal compound, then that's something that is easily fixable. I think the bigger issue is the transfer from the led board to the outside case. Any chance you could have a look at this steelhmr?


I will try to do this at some point. I am really not even sure where to start though? There is only one screw and that is to hold the mount onto the body. Could the lens cap just screw off?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

steelhmr said:


> Could the lens cap just screw off?


Yes, give that a try. That's how my lights work.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

varider said:


> Yes, give that a try. That's how my lights work.


Okay, I'll try that later tonight after I make my final decision to ride or not. Need a shower and more groceries first though.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Okay, I took some pics. Let me know your thoughts. Also, I noticed "Cree XML" written on them. Does this indicate no XM-L2?


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

steelhmr said:


> Okay, I took some pics. Let me know your thoughts. Also, I noticed "Cree XML" written on them. Does this indicate no XM-L2? ]


They are XM-L2s. Compare them to this pic


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

mtbRevolution said:


> They are XM-L2s. Compare them to this pic


Thanks. I thought they were as much since I only noticed two bonding wires.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Hello everyone, new to the forum but have read many threads. I just received my 3cree from eBay. I fully charged it and if I lightly tap the switch it makes a quick burst like a short and the light will not turn on until I unplug the cord and re plug it. As if it resets. Is this common? Does it have a defective board? My batteries came with blue packaging. The light is extremely bright but not really happy with the switch issue. I guess I can't really complain since I paid 31$ for the light. I have read the battery should be replaced with better quality batteries. Any links for recommendations. My light does not have the nice machined circles on the back. Did I get an older model or just a different case?My rides are usually 1:30hrs max and if I can get that muh run time I will be a happy camper. 
















-Genaro


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Took the 3x on the trail today. It rained earlier and I was sore so it wasn't a long ride. I don't have my helmet mount for my 2x unit yet, so I mounted both on the bars and used a Lumina on my helmet as backup. Wasn't able to aim them optimally since 5 of my 6 LEDs were on the bar. Anyway, it's bright, but I'm still not that crazy about the hot spot, since it is so much hotter than the rest of the beam. I didn't get to experiment with it setup at many different angles either since, again, I was constrained by both of them being on the bar. I ran it on high for most of the ride and did some extra road riding at the end to give it more time. When I arrived home it was only slightly warm. I left it on while I put things away and within about 3 minutes it got rather hot and stepped down. My aim was to ride around on high until it stepped down, but my left leg was sore from squats today and I just wanted to go home after the first trail. Anyway, I did see very well on the downhill, but I was also using the Lumina on High since I needed a helmet light to see around bends. I forgot how the riding dynamics change in the dark and you have to lead with your head much sooner.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

I am still looking for some guidance as to applying the thermal paste to help alleviate my heat transfer issue. 

I did want to report on one powerful aspect of this light - the flash (or perhaps pulse?). I was meeting up with my uncle for a road bike trail ride starting under a bridge. Unbeknownst to either of us, as I was crossing the bridge, he was driving perpendicular to it on the other side (he lives outside of the city). Later we caught up on an adjacent street near our meetup point and he commented on my front blinking light (3x). He said that he noticed me when I was just at the crest of the bridge. He wasn't looking towards the bridge, but the flash caught his eye and he looked over to see two cyclists cross the bridge. This was at 8 am on an overcast day and my best estimate is that we were at least 500m away from each other when he noticed the flash. Now he wants one too.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I didn't see the pictures you posted earlier steelhmr. The potential heat problem occurs if the metal part that led sits on is not well connected to the outside shell. I can't really see what's going in those pictures. It looks that silver thing you pulled out is the reflector, right? That part doesn't matter (the reflector). 

So it's not clear what the led's are sitting on. Is it a thin metal plate loosely attached to the outside, or is it a cup shaped metal piece? If it's just a plate then you can run a bead of thermal glue around the edge. That's what Kir did with the d99. If it's a cup then you can coat the entire surface that touches the shell. Another way this thing is constructed is that the led mount base is actually part of the outside shell, i.e. it's cnc machined out a solid piece of metal. This is probably unlikely though, I believe it's a much more expensive way to make like this light. If this were the case, then there are no improvement you could make. Back to the first case, it's also possible that the plate is too thin and therefore provides too much thermal resistance. You would have to machine a new one.

It's also possible that the outside case simply doesn't have enough surface area to cool the light. 

Another thing you should check is if there is any thermal paste/glue underneath the led stars. That's also critical.


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

the button on my light feels really thin like if I push it much the rubber will tear eventually. also the indicator light looks kinda defective. is this normal?


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Not on mine. Rubber button is preety stiff etc. This is the best and brightest light I have owned from all the cheap units. 

Chris.


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

krzysiekmz said:


> Not on mine. Rubber button is preety stiff etc. This is the best and brightest light I have owned from all the cheap units.
> 
> Chris.


does the whole button light up or just part of it like mine?


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Most is lit. There is a spot about 4o'clock as you would be looking at your watch that is not lit. 

Overall if the light works I would not worry.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Gabe3, mine is like yours. Never been an issue, going on a year.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

steelhmr said:


> I am still looking for some guidance as to applying the thermal paste to help alleviate my heat transfer issue.


There's no rocket science here: just apply it between LED-mounting pill and outer case, so that all the contact surfaces are covered with thin layer.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Gabe3 said:


> does the whole button light up or just part of it like mine?


On the light's PCB inside, two small LEDs are soldered near power button. As they're not centered but have offset of several mm, it's impossible for each of them to illuminate the button cap evenly.


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

I'm able to see through part of the button when its not even lit. is yours like this?


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Mine is the same. But I like the fact that the button is lit very dimly. Still working as well. But not w/ the supplied battery. Had an older GEO 6.0 that I use and still works. The supplied battery couldn't power this thing for more than 40 minutes or so.

My light head broke off the mount. I super glued it back and it been fine since. Can't complain for 49.99 delivered. 

Since I got a year out of it, now I get to spend 30-50 on another cheap light but w/ new emitters, etc. LOL


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> There's no rocket science here: just apply it between LED-mounting pill and outer case, so that all the contact surfaces are covered with thin layer.


Still not sure if I did it right, but I emptied an entire 3.5 gram tube of Arctic Silver around the pill & outer case. I'll let it dry for a while and try some run times to see if it improves.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Looks like XM-L2 units are hitting now.
New 5000LM 3X CREE XM L2 LED Cycling Head Lamp Front Bicycle Bike Light Headlamp | eBay


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

How does the beam of these 3x xml lights look like? I am thinking of buying one for bar. 
According to beamshots that I saw they are quite floody but also have visible spot.

This is the light that I was looking, the cheapest xml2 that I could found:
LM 3L2 3xCree XM-L2 4000-Lumen 4 Modes LED Bike Front Light(Lamp cap Only) - Bicycle Lights Lamp Cap - Bicycle Light & Headlamp Worldwide Free Shipping!!!


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Mayor, you can upgrade your current XM-Ls if you have the knowledge & tools, but the difference won't be very noticable.

Snakes, I have a Skyray S6 a 3 XM-L light and the beam is floody with a quite visible hot spot - but I don't notice that hotspot since the light is aimed a bit far away. The light can support up to 3 mtb riders (each one next to another if the terrain allows it)  Very good bar light IMHO both 3 XML and Skyray S6.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

MK96 said:


> Mayor, you can upgrade your current XM-Ls if you have the knowledge & tools, but the difference won't be very noticable.
> 
> Snakes, I have a Skyray S6 a 3 XM-L light and the beam is floody with a quite visible hot spot - but I don't notice that hotspot since the light is aimed a bit far away. The light can support up to 3 mtb riders (each one next to another if the terrain allows it)  Very good bar light IMHO both 3 XML and Skyray S6.


MK86...yes, upgrading my currnet light doesn't make much sense...considering how cheap complete units are.
I was just pointing out that they are available.

Snakes...you are answering your own question...and there are plenty of beam shots on this thread. At $24...that is a deal...as long as you have a good battery.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

I was asking because I didn't see it by myself, and I've found only one or two beamshots, quality of which was so-so. 
Tomorrow I will check one 3x xml in person.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Snakes said:


> How does the beam of these 3x xml lights look like? I am thinking of buying one for bar.
> According to beamshots that I saw they are quite floody but also have visible spot.
> 
> This is the light that I was looking, the cheapest xml2 that I could found:
> LM 3L2 3xCree XM-L2 4000-Lumen 4 Modes LED Bike Front Light(Lamp cap Only) - Bicycle Lights Lamp Cap - Bicycle Light & Headlamp Worldwide Free Shipping!!!


Looks like a pretty good deal. That price is hard to beat. I have one of the original tri-clone lamps and they really do have a nice beam pattern for the bars . These are using the XM-L2 emitters so output should be a little brighter. Just expect typical 1-2-3 led operation for changing modes and yes it has the strobe in there as well. As long as that doesn't bother you you're good to go.

It would be nice to find a tri-clone with XM-L2 emitters that has the stepless menu. When I see one of those I just might buy it. So far Kaidomain is the only one selling a stepless tri-clone that I know of ( but not XM-L2 )

***UPDATE**.*...I stand corrected. * STEPLESS TRI-CLONE with XM-L2 U2!!*
buy one before they sell out. Too much money for me right now or I'd be on these toot-sweet.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> ***UPDATE**.*...I stand corrected. * STEPLESS TRI-CLONE with XM-L2 U2!!*
> buy one before they sell out. Too much money for me right now or I'd be on these toot-sweet.


Is that the same design that steelhmr is having heat problems with?


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

varider said:


> Is that the same design that steelhmr is having heat problems with?


Yep, that's the one. I just applied some thermal paste, but haven't tested it out yet. Was supposed to go for a ride tonight, but I destroyed the rear mech on my bike running over a stupid branch on Sunday. Might do some indoor testing if I have time.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> ***UPDATE**.*...I stand corrected. * STEPLESS TRI-CLONE with XM-L2 U2!!*
> buy one before they sell out. Too much money for me right now or I'd be on these toot-sweet.


WHY did you have to post that?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> Is that the same design that steelhmr is having heat problems with?


Oh hell, :blush: Yeah, it's the same light. That discussion happened a couple months back. Sorry, I forgot about it. Hummm...I still want one though even if there are potential thermal power-down issues. This lamp gives the user a choice of ten levels to set the modes and all three LED's remain lit through all the modes. I like that. Since I rarely use high modes for long periods this lamp might work for me.

Could also make a good cheap choice for someone who plans on doing endurance events and would like to dial in a setting with just the right amount of output to extend run time on their battery.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Oh hell, :blush: Yeah, it's the same light. That discussion happened a couple months back. Sorry, I forgot about it. Hummm...I still want one though even if there are potential thermal power-down issues. This lamp gives the user a choice of ten levels to set the modes and all three LED's remain lit through all the modes. I like that. Since I rarely use high modes for long periods this lamp might work for me.
> 
> Could also make a good cheap choice for someone who plans on doing endurance events and would like to dial in a setting with just the right amount of output to extend run time on their battery.


Cat,

Just so it's clear, you can operate this light in the stepless mode as well. That is to say, you don't have to reprogram the 3 modes to access stepless. If you want to ride around and use all 10 levels, there is the option to do that.

It sucks that my bike broke when it did because yesterday was pretty much the start of the night riding season for me. Hopefully I will have my bike fixed by the end of the week and commence night riding early next week. I still haven't had a real ride (~1.5 hr) with the 3x on the bars and 2x on my helmet yet.


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## Jeepdude (Nov 22, 2007)

So, in looking at these two...which is better?

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021404

New 5000LM 3X CREE XM L2 LED Cycling Head Lamp Front Bicycle Bike Light Headlamp | eBay

I don't have a lot of money and have looking through these threads for some time. I am starting with the light for the bars first, then moving into the helmet light. I will need to use the cheapo battery at first, but night rides rarely last more than an hour...and need to finish a ride when it gets dark mostly.

Also, do both of the above lights have he thermal issues spoken about on this thread?

Also, can someone please explain the difference between a stepless mode and non-stepless mode light?

Thanks to all of those who have been posting this information to make it somewhat easier to pick a more cost effective lighting solution.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Jeepdude said:


> So, in looking at these two...which is better?
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021404
> 
> ...


If you don't have a lot of money...you may not be able to afford buying cheap lights.
You may...and probably will...get a poor battery, and you will have to buy a replacement.
You may get a bad light....good luck on getting a replacement.
I bought a 3x that has a very good light head...but came with a battery that wouldn't run it for the time I wanted. I then bought a cheap battery pack that wasn't that much better. I then ended up getting a very good battery pack from mtbrevolution. I knew going in that this was all an experiment and might end up costing more than the $50 original ...which it did.
If money were a concern....I should have bought a light a good shop or distributor so I knew what I was getting.

BTW...this is where I bought my light. I paid around $50 a year ago. This may...or may not...be the same light and battery ( another problem: you never know WHAT you are getting inside).
3800Lm 3X CREE XM L T6 LED Headlight Headlamp Bicycle Light Torch Battery US | eBay


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

I ended up returning mine with the weird button from the previous page. free amazon return shipping ftw. ordered again from the same seller (epathdirect). this time a slightly different light came. the button is firmer and doesn't feel paper thin and not see-through. and a battery that lasted 140 mins! , compared to the previous one that lasted 80.

also, the new one doesn't have the green ring around the light head like the one below, not sure if that means anything:


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Jeepdude, the first one has heat problems and the second is so new that no one has it.


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## Jeepdude (Nov 22, 2007)

the mayor said:


> If you don't have a lot of money...you may not be able to afford buying cheap lights.
> You may...and probably will...get a poor battery, and you will have to buy a replacement.
> You may get a bad light....good luck on getting a replacement.
> I bought a 3x that has a very good light head...but came with a battery that wouldn't run it for the time I wanted. I then bought a cheap battery pack that wasn't that much better. I then ended up getting a very good battery pack from mtbrevolution. I knew going in that this was all an experiment and might end up costing more than the $50 original ...which it did.
> ...


Thanks for the feedback everyone who posted.

I understand the issues the battery can cause. I would probably try to build my own pack eventually, but for the time being it seems that many people have been OK for shorter rides? Like I said, most of my rides start before dusk...I just need something to help me finish my ride.

I understand it is a gamble...like getting a box of chocolates.....

So, for 40 bucks I may just pull the trigger. Not sure that I like the diamonds around the front outside ring of the light though... Will probably try to pop them out. Interesting that it looks like one of them already fell out in the pictures.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Jeepdude said:


> Thanks for the feedback everyone who posted.
> 
> I understand it is a gamble...like getting a box of chocolates.....


Just because it's brown doesn't mean it's chocolate ;^)


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## Jeepdude (Nov 22, 2007)

the mayor said:


> Just because it's brown doesn't mean it's chocolate ;^)


That's funny...hope I don't end up with that!


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

Jeepdude said:


> Thanks for the feedback everyone who posted.
> 
> I understand the issues the battery can cause. I would probably try to build my own pack eventually, but for the time being it seems that many people have been OK for shorter rides? Like I said, most of my rides start before dusk...I just need something to help me finish my ride.
> 
> ...


those aren't diamonds lol. they are just holes in the metal for looks I guess.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

I still didn't decide what to buy for my bar light.
I am deciding between 2-3-5 LED lights. 
Contendor no. 1, Contendor no. 2, Contendor no. 3, condendor no. 4 (even cheaper).

I am a little afraid of overheating and power comsumption of 4-5 LED lights, especially in cheap Chinese lights. 
Power/light wise 4-5 led lights are probably better than 3 LED. I assume that each LED gets less power, than in 3 LED lights, so they are more effective.
One thing that I like on 5 LED light is that it has High and low mode and not 1LED, 2LEDs...

Main question is, what to try 3x XML2 or 5x XML?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

I can speak for sure about contendors #1 and #4 only.

The first one is well-made light, but requires some modding to unleash its power. My review posted here:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/triple-xm-l-light-review-873039.html

The last is a piece of junk, with inferior thermal management: no way to improve it without making relpacement internal parts (LED pill) etc. Don't recommend it.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

Ok, thank you Archie, that is what I needed. I will check your review. It looks like that picture urls don't work anymore. Is it possible to you fix them, please?
I thought there must be some reason that this 5 led light is so cheap...


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Snakes,

Here is the 5x I have been considering. Might pick it up with a new battery for next year. http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S022598.


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## luigi4711 (Oct 21, 2013)

I have a Solarstorm XT40 on it's way to me... will be several weeks though until I can tell if it's any good or bad... 
2800 lumens Solarstorm XT40 high quality bike light, View bike light, Solarstorm Product Details from Shenzhen Blackshadow Technology Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> I can speak for sure about contendors #1 and #4 only.
> 
> The first one is well-made light, but requires some modding to unleash its power. My review posted here:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/triple-xm-l-light-review-873039.html
> ...


One thing to keep in mind is that although they look the same ( that outer casing is readily available in China)...the insides may be completely different!
I have one that is like Archie's inside.....and has been great.
A friend bought one that had 1 dead LED out of the box....and when we took it apart...it was a mess of bad wires and soldering inside.
So....even if it's brown and in a bon-bon wrapper...it doesn't mean it's chocolate!


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes, that's true.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I am kind of interested in the first one, though. XM-L2 for $25. It MIGHT be a little brighter.....might being the operative word.
Who knows what's inside it.....
I guess there's only 1 way to find out.


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## Jeepdude (Nov 22, 2007)

Gabe3 said:


> those aren't diamonds lol. they are just holes in the metal for looks I guess.


They look like diamonds to me...here is a picture of a red one I found...









I guess with the high level of craftsmanship and high quality components they use to build these lights they would dress up the outside to indicate what is in the inside. :nonod:


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

Jeepdude said:


> They look like diamonds to me...here is a picture of a red one I found...
> 
> View attachment 845350
> 
> ...


oh I thought you were talking about the one I posted. that is funny. theres a lot of 3x cree variants out there. I don't see a reason to buy that blinged out version. I'd stick with the ones people have been buying.


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## Jeepdude (Nov 22, 2007)

Gabe3 said:


> oh I thought you were talking about the one I posted. that is funny. theres a lot of 3x cree variants out there. I don't see a reason to buy that blinged out version. I'd stick with the ones people have been buying.


Ya, that is what I was thinking as well.

So; out of all the 3X cree variants out there...is there any one that is better than the others (of the clones)? I think that some of these vary the brightness level by turning off/on one LED at a time as apposed to reducing the current but keeping all three LEDs lit? is there any benefit to one over the other?

For the one that had the thermal issue, can it be solved by applying the thermal paste to it?

I know it is a lot of questions...thanks in advance.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Most of 3 clones are 1-2-3 led & strobe(can be modified replacing the uC, but sometime difficult to do), the one that is stepless & runs all leds every time reducing current has actualy heat problems. I have Skyray S6 and the leds stick on a case (it is drilled from front and back to suit the driver in the back and reflector in the front) - the best heat transfer. Maybe you should consider this one. I know ... it is from lightmalls, but the case should be similar to Skyray S6, so heat transfer should be fine & I suggest to buy a quality battery pack from the thread here.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

steelhmr how is your stepless doing? 
I am deciding between Manta Ray stepless and the light with diamonds posted a few posts before, both have XM-L2 leds. I like this one with diamonds, because housing good, it has nice fins for cooling. 
On the other hand Manta ray has no fins and you had overheating problems, so I am not sure if I want one. But stepless feature sounds nice...


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Snakes said:


> steelhmr how is your stepless doing?
> I am deciding between Manta Ray stepless and the light with diamonds posted a few posts before, both have XM-L2 leds. I like this one with diamonds, because housing good, it has nice fins for cooling.
> On the other hand Manta ray has no fins and you had overheating problems, so I am not sure if I want one. But stepless feature sounds nice...


I still haven't done a real night ride with the 3x (other than a couple short test rides). Other people have gotten that light and had no issue with overheating (that I know of). My particular light did not have any thermal paste where the pill and the outside body meet, which caused the heat transfer issues. I haven't given it a real test since adding the paste. Before adding the paste, it ran for 20 min on high before stepping down. If adding the paste can add even 10 min then I doubt it will ever be an issue since I don't tend to leave the light on high for more than 10-15 min at a time on the trails. The stepless feature is definitely awesome to have. All lights should have it.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Okay, I did my first real night ride with the 3x unit on the bars. As for the overheating, I did the last 24 minutes of my ride on HIGH and then left the unit on as I took the bike back into my house. It ran for another 5-6 minutes (no fan) before powering down. It seems like the thermal paste definitely made an improvement since it ran for 30 minutes on HIGH this time, and the last 5-6 minutes had no air flow. Additionally, it was running on medium & HIGH for quite some time before switching it to HIGH at the end. I will hopefully ride again tomorrow and try to extend the time that I leave it on at the end of my ride. 

Now, as to the brightness of the light, it definitely is a major improvement over last year's setup (2 Lumina 650's). I did have some trouble getting the unit to stay in place, as it had a tendency to slump downward a little, but I will try adding some grip tape to the bars to get a better coefficient of friction between the o-ring and the bars. It's very bright on the singletrack and looks even brighter (and fuller) on the firelanes.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Got a 2nd ride in today. This time I left the light on HIGH for the last 31 minutes of my ride. Left it on for another 8 minutes when I got home (no fan) before it stepped down. Outside temperature was 50 degrees F.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

steelhmr said:


> Got a 2nd ride in today. This time I left the light on HIGH for the last 31 minutes of my ride. Left it on for another 8 minutes when I got home (no fan) before it stepped down. Outside temperature was 50 degrees F.


Sounds to me like your stepless 3up is working fine. When I tested my old 808e a while back with no fan in ran about 10 minutes before shutting down. This is about the normal amount of time it takes for overheating to take place with no air movement. Of course with better heat sinking it might be a little longer but I think 8-10 minutes without air movement over the lamp is about right.


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## djjeffa (Jul 27, 2008)

I got a qestion for you guys that grab theses clones, do you think the one led or three led is better. Im guessing the one would would have a wider throw and better battery life whats your guys thoughts?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Usually more LEDs mean more efficiency, 3XML clones are a good mix of flood & throw for a bar light and they have more lumens output than 1 XML clones.


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## djjeffa (Jul 27, 2008)

MK96 said:


> Usually more LEDs mean more efficiency, 3XML clones are a good mix of flood & throw for a bar light and they have more lumens output than 1 XML clones.


Thanks for the info, I fingered the 3 would be brighter but thought it would be a bigger draw and with the size of the reflector I thought the beam would be more narrow.

Sent from my EVO LTE using Tapatalk 2


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Acutally 1 XM-L clone needs wide angle lens, to get more flood. 3 XM-L clone (this or Skyray S6) is just a nice mix of both flood/throw. 3 XM-L will draw more from battery (about 14-16W of power drawn from batteries), but it is a brighter light and you have the modes you can change - so you don't need to max it out everytime.


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## djjeffa (Jul 27, 2008)

I'm guessing the xlm clown don't have a real Cree led in so my question is has any of you guys try putting a better led in this setup?

Sent from my EVO LTE using Tapatalk 2


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yes, these clones have cree xm-l leds, but mostly with the cheapest tint/bin color. I am replacing my xm-l's with xm-l2 in my Skyray S6 light also with stronger 30W driver.


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## djjeffa (Jul 27, 2008)

MK96 said:


> Yes, these clones have cree xm-l leds, but mostly with the cheapest tint/bin color. I am replacing my xm-l's with xm-l2 in my Skyray S6 light also with stronger 30W driver.


Thanks for the info I'm trying to find the best set up for $50 so I don't know if I'm gonna get a 3 or one led cause I was thinking of getting a one with a flood lens and beefing up the led and driver.

Sent from my EVO LTE using Tapatalk 2


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Ok, saw this one which has a reflector at the top of the light head. Seems like it would reflect more light down at the trail. Good idea. Anyone tried one like this or made their own reflector like this to enhance the light or does it not really work.

4500LM 3X CREE XML T6 LED Cycling Front Head Bike Lamp Bicycle Light Headlamp H5 | eBay

MB


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> Ok, saw this one which has a reflector at the top of the light head. Seems like it would reflect more light down at the trail. Good idea. Anyone tried one like this or made their own reflector like this to enhance the light or does it not really work.
> 
> 4500LM 3X CREE XML T6 LED Cycling Front Head Bike Lamp Bicycle Light Headlamp H5 | eBay
> 
> MB


MB, there must at least 20 or more versions of Tri-clone floating around on the web. I've seen other versions of bike lamps with the shield. Could be useful for on the road. It needs to be pointed out that the lamp you linked to only looks to have two steady modes and one flash mode. Most tri-clones have 3 steady modes and one flash.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Nope I didn't tried that. But I have seen it at lightmalls -this one and some other also. Anyway it is easy to try similar setup with some alloy foil on top of the lighthead. But this alloy reflector has to be smooth to reflect the light back down to the trail. There are zillions of 3 XMLs out just take a look 3LED Bike Light - 3T6 Bike Light - 3R5 LED Bike Light Worldwide Free Shipping!!!


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Thx

I know there are loads of these out there, I was just curious if the shield really worked as it looks kinda interesting and seems like it would reflect more light at the ground thus acting like a light w/ more lumens.

Hmmm, maybe I'll try some kind of mod and see what I can come up w/.


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## djjeffa (Jul 27, 2008)

To be honest I don't think its a reflector because its not shiny, I believe its to keep the light out of on oncoming peoples eyes.

Sent from my EVO LTE using Tapatalk 2


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

It is not shiny so you are right about blinding. But if you want more light on the trail you need to add a shiny shield to reflect the light down.


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

*Stepless XML2 U2*

I got one of these last week and did a little testing to see if it would have heat issues like steelhmr. I had a small fan blowing on it and it was approx 70F indoor temp. I put it on high and watched it with a thermal camera. It was a little slow to heat up and when the case temp hit 108F it throttled back to low. Once it dropped a few degrees it went back up to high until it hit 108F and dropped again. This was much lower than I was expecting so I opened it up to add some thermal paste. The inside looked just like the pics uploaded earlier with just the very thin (and poorly applied) white paste. I cleaned it off and tried to pull the retaining ring that holds the mounting plate for the leds to see if there was any paste between it and the case. I was unable to pull the ring but was able to determine that the plate is sitting on a lip that is about 3mm. I put new paste so that the plate would be better connected to the case and a fresh layer between the led and plate. Put it back together and ran the same test. Fired it up and at 112F it dropped back to low. I was disappointed until I noticed the red led on the back was blinking and thought maybe it changed to low due to that. Sure enough, plugged in a different battery and it ran all the way until I abandoned the test at 130F case temp. If you get this light, you must add thermal paste. But once that is done you shouldn't have any thermal shutdown issues.

http://kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S021404


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## djjeffa (Jul 27, 2008)

Thanks for the info rob, I haven't ran mine yet because I'm still waiting for my flood lens bit I will be sure to add some paste.

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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

djjeffa said:


> Thanks for the info rob, I haven't ran mine yet because I'm still waiting for my flood lens bit I will be sure to add some paste.
> 
> Sent from my EVO LTE using Tapatalk 2


Where did you find a flood lens that fits?


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## djjeffa (Jul 27, 2008)

Amazon but wait till I get it before you order. Let me make sure it fits.

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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

If it's not 45mm in diameter it wont fit.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

robs31 said:


> I got one of these last week and did a little testing to see if it would have heat issues like steelhmr. I had a small fan blowing on it and it was approx 70F indoor temp. I put it on high and watched it with a thermal camera. It was a little slow to heat up and when the case temp hit 108F it throttled back to low. Once it dropped a few degrees it went back up to high until it hit 108F and dropped again. This was much lower than I was expecting so I opened it up to add some thermal paste. The inside looked just like the pics uploaded earlier with just the very thin (and poorly applied) white paste. I cleaned it off and tried to pull the retaining ring that holds the mounting plate for the leds to see if there was any paste between it and the case. I was unable to pull the ring but was able to determine that the plate is sitting on a lip that is about 3mm. I put new paste so that the plate would be better connected to the case and a fresh layer between the led and plate. Put it back together and ran the same test. Fired it up and at 112F it dropped back to low. I was disappointed until I noticed the red led on the back was blinking and thought maybe it changed to low due to that. Sure enough, plugged in a different battery and it ran all the way until I abandoned the test at 130F case temp. If you get this light, you must add thermal paste. But once that is done you shouldn't have any thermal shutdown issues.
> 
> http://kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S021404


Great to hear that you had the same success with the thermal management issue that I did. Curious to hear your thoughts on the brightness, beam pattern, etc.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

djjeffa said:


> Thanks for the info rob, I haven't ran mine yet because I'm still waiting for my flood lens bit I will be sure to add some paste.
> 
> Sent from my EVO LTE using Tapatalk 2


I, too, am very curious about how this works out. I'd probably be more interested in changing the reflectors/cones. I just want to redirect the small hot spot into a wider flood (without sacrificing total lumens).


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## djjeffa (Jul 27, 2008)

robs31 said:


> If it's not 45mm in diameter it wont fit.


I didn't bother measuring but it fits 








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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

Please measure and provide a link to the lens you bought. Also a beamshot with and without would be greatly appreciated.


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## djjeffa (Jul 27, 2008)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004W...e?ref_=pe_385040_30332190_TE_3p_M3T1_ST1_dp_1
It is like 1.5 in about 38mm give or take.
Ill post pics when I have time.
Btw there beam shot on that page mine is just brighter.
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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

Bummer. That is the same size as the one I have for my 808 clone. Our 3X are different diameters and it is way to small for mine.


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## Folsom (May 19, 2014)

Sorry to bring up an old thread, I have the manta ray stepless like steelhmr. I've noticed that I don't get much run time on it before the LED turns red. This even happens when I go to on a 10 min ride on max, let the bike sit outside at 45 degrees for an hour, then on the ride back it turns red after a minute. I think I ended up with a bad battery. Are there any suggestions for a good replacement battery?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Action-led, hunk-lee (ebayer), DX - pannovo B-C04 case with 4 x 18650 protected cells. Bunch of options ...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Folsom said:


> Sorry to bring up an old thread, I have the manta ray stepless like steelhmr. I've noticed that I don't get much run time on it before the LED turns red. This even happens when I go to on a 10 min ride on max, let the bike sit outside at 45 degrees for an hour, then on the ride back it turns red after a minute. I think I ended up with a bad battery. Are there any suggestions for a good replacement battery?


I have the same lamp. The Manta Ray D003 draws a bit of battery power so it doesn't surprise me that the supplied battery isn't going to cut it. Cold weather only makes matters worse. A 4-cell battery using Panasonic cells is likely your best bet for better run times. Another way to go is to buy a 6-cell battery. Then again you might consider one of the 4-cell battery holders and buy the cells you want to provide the run time you need. The advantage of a cell holder is that you can remove the batteries ( on a ride ) and replace if needed ( if you have spares ). The holder should work with just two cells ( if need be ) so if you run out of juice on a ride all you should need are two extra cells for back up. If running just two cells you will need to run lower power levels though.

While on the subject I should mention that the LED battery indicators on some of the cheaper Chinese lamps vary on how they work. I've seen the red indicator come on with one of my lamps and still had an hour of run time. Sometimes this just happens and temperature of the batteries has a lot to do with how the indicators work. Preferably you would like the red indicator to tell you when are almost out of battery power (10-15 minutes of run time left ) Unfortunately not all indicators are going to work the same. A lot depends on the quality/capacity of the cells and well as the ambient temperature of the cells. This is why it is imperative that you do a run time test with your lamp/battery so you know what to expect once you get out in the field. If you don't do this than it would be a good idea to carry something for back-up. Though I rarely need it myself, I always carry a small single cell XM-L torch on my bars. Better to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it.

Likely nothing is wrong with your battery. It probably just doesn't have the needed capacity to supply your lamp with full power for anything more than 90 minutes or so ( @ 70°F ). A high capacity battery ( > 6000mAh ) should get you over two hours on high with the lamp you are using. Personally I never run mine on high for more than a couple minutes at a time so the advice I'm giving you is based on theoretical numbers. As such, usually I'm not too far off the mark if I'm wrong. If I ever do an extended ride with mine I'll just carry a back up battery to stay on the safe side but for the most part I'm very good at milking the *battery to get the most run time out of it.. (*note; not the supplied battery, I have better batteries )


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## Folsom (May 19, 2014)

I finally bought a pannovo B-C04, and I installed 4 2250mAh batteries in it. This pack is lasting much longer than the original battery pack. I've run it over an hour on high with a fan on it with the button staying green. The original pack only lasted about 10 minutes before the button turned red.

I did some measurements with this light, and it draws 2A at high power. The button turns red around 6.6V-6.7V, and the light shuts off at 6.3V-6.4V.


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## cor35vet (Jul 19, 2015)

I've been looking for a good and cheap light for the past two days and I think I've just found it...

I was looking for: Good thermal design (most chinese lights have **** internal thermal design and in case they do (Yinding) the outer heatsink is way too small - this one seems to provide good internal thermal design and a big heatsink); two or three XM-L2 LEDs; a not-**** UI - this one seems to have one of the best UIs.

I just messaged kaidomain asking if I could buy these lights without the battery and charger since I plan on building my own 2S2P (or maybe 2S3P) battery out of Sanyo NCR18650BF batteries (sourced from the original Xiaomi 10000mAh power bank Original Xiaomi Pocket 10000mAh Mobile Power Bank Portable Charger for Samsung Galaxy iPad iPhone 6 Plus 6 5 5S 5C HTC ONE M9 Tablet etc.-12.55 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com - see [Reserved] New 10000mAh mobile power xiaomi dismantling: batteries too fast! - Mi Gadgets - Xiaomi MIUI Official Forum)

In case you guys know where I could buy this light from without the included batteries and charger please let me know. Or maybe something new that comes close to this one? (I did not come across anything yet.)

Also sorry for necroposting hehe.


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## cor35vet (Jul 19, 2015)

Second try posting.... (Edit: Kill me I didn't read the text after I've submitted my post)

So, after searching for a cheap and well engineered light for the past few days I've came across this thread (and Cat-man-do's review) and contacted the seller (kaidomain) to see if I can buy two of these lights without the included batteries and charger.

I will be using NCR18650BF sourced from the genuine Xiaomi 10000mAh powerbank: Original Xiaomi Pocket 10000mAh Mobile Power Bank Portable Charger for Samsung Galaxy iPad iPhone 6 Plus 6 5 5S 5C HTC ONE M9 Tablet etc.-12.55 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com - see [Reserved] New 10000mAh mobile power xiaomi dismantling: batteries too fast! - Mi Gadgets - Xiaomi MIUI Official Forum too.

I was looking for 2x or 3x Cree XM-L2 lights which offer good heatsinking (most of these chinese lights have an awful thermal path inside the housing and some of them have a good internal thermal design but are way too small (Yinding) or both...)
I was also looking for a good UI, and I think this light here probably has one of the best.

So yeah, hopefully I will be able to buy them for cheap without the battery and all that crap. If you guys know any light that'd probably be better or can change my mind about my purchase please do so!

(And sorry for necroposting)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

IM trying to find where that thing has actual sanyo cells, especially 4 of them for $12 

Anyway, there is alot of lights out now far better than this thing IMO. Nitefighter has 2 (bt40s and bt21) also solarstorm has the xt40 and x3 (x6 looked promising but its got crap for thermal path). This light head is now rather out dated, emitters and other designs have surpassed it by quite a bit now.

That said, if you still want this light, check ebay, usually the best place to find light heads only. BUt like most chinese lights, it a total crap shoot as to what you get. Yinding, Nitefighters, solarstorm lights are al the current ones and reviews are done so we know exactly how they are built before spending money.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I have two Xiaomi power banks on the way just for the same reason - use the good Sanyo cells in a 2S3P battery pack. Actualy I've started thread about some battery packs and there I had intention to describe how to use existing welded packs from laptop or powerbank. Actualy I've already used 6 old laptop 2900 Panasonics in a 2S3P version. I just need to publish it.


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## cor35vet (Jul 19, 2015)

@tigris99: That Xiaomi powerbank has three original Sanyo-Panasonic NCR18650BF, see the pictures in this thread: [Reserved] New 10000mAh mobile power xiaomi dismantling: batteries too fast! - Mi Gadgets - Xiaomi MIUI Official Forum

I have one of the old 10400mAh powerbanks from Xiaomi with four LG LGABB41865 cells and two of these new powerbanks coming in the mail.

Also the only good light out of these you've mentioned (in my opinion) is the Nitefighter BT40s, all the others have awful thermal design - either the emitters have barely any contact with the case (Solarstorm) or the case is too small to be a big enough heatsink on the highest mode (which are most of the time not even that high because of that).

So yeah I might actually go for the BT40s, which sadly has a worse UI but maybe I can reflash the chip on there - since it seems like most of these lights use ATMegas and I have the equipment for these.

Also nice thread ledoman! I'm looking for a good 2S3P or 2S2P pack to purchase myself, no need for protection etc. since the lights come with battery indicators nowadays and for charging I'm using a Intellicharger i4 anyways. (So removable batteries is a must)

I've asked the seller if they are offering a lighthead only option for this light and they've said that they will contact their supplier.

Seem like it's time to make this forum aware of the Xiaomi powerbanks.
(From the thread on MIUI)


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yup, I'm aware of it. I've just need to be shure so I haven't published it until I could check it myself. 
Here is my review of battery packs were the cells could be used as a DIY parts: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...terproof-bicycle-battery-packs-gb-982688.html


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Dang! Price jumped up on those power banks before I got two ordered! Well, at least $16.01 isn't so bad. 

-Garry


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## cor35vet (Jul 19, 2015)

I've got mine from here ( https://www.allbuy.com/detail/25023 ) actually, I've posted the gearbest link since people here seem to like it better


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Well yes, to bad. Will try to get some coupon from May. Previous price was on the "edge" she said.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Dang, it wasn't a bad deal before and really still not since they are welded already.


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