# To clipless or not to clipless



## desert guy (May 12, 2012)

So, the plastic pedals that came on my Rockhopper 29 are just not cutting it, no suprise. I have the hardest time keeping my feet on them, and they are just worn out after only one month. I went to my LBS today to check on some platform pedals, and was told to skip them and go straight to clipless. I have only been riding for two months, and would have eaten **** plenty of times, but I have been able to catch myself. I know that I do need to go clipless sooner or later, but I am a bit freaked out. Am I making a big deal out of this when I shouldnt be?


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## getagrip (Mar 26, 2008)

If you have 2 months under your belt, I say go for it, but don't tackle the toughest terrain right off the bat because you WILL fall, even on easy terrain. The idea of riding clipless scared me too at first, but after my first ride, I was hooked. Now, there have been several times where I've had very close calls trying to get my feet out of the pedals, but it is really not that bad - I practiced clipping and unclipping quite a few times before my first ride in clipless. Also, you can set the tension on many clipless SPD pedals - kind of like a ski binding so your shoes will pop out easier at first. After a couple of rides, you can adjust the tension. Anyway, I say go for it! Just be careful and take your time.


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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

I went straight to clipless pedals, after about a month of getting used to them I had them lock in during a crash and jack up my ankle. I wasn't clipped in but during the crash my foot smacked the pedal and locked in. Back to flat pedals for me, not sure if/when I will try clipless again...maybe in a year or two.


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## trixwolf (Apr 28, 2009)

After much to-ing and fro-ing about whether to go clipless or not I was given a set of XT spd's as a gift. So I was forced into using them and haven't looked back since.

Got them loosened to the max and they are super easy to unclip from, even with unexpected circumstances.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

i've tried them before, but i'm so used to platforms that i just never liked them. its a personal preference. you'll never know til you try. it does have its advantages though.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

SPD you cna adjust the tenison and it will eventually make you a better XC/trail rider. 

If it wasnt easier noone would do it.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Go for it! Put them on the lightest setting and practice around the house and on familiar and easy ground for a while. It takes some time to yourself programmed to twist out, but it's all good after that. There are a lot of strength gains and efficiency to be gained from clippless pedals.

Good luck


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## velveteer (Feb 28, 2012)

Went clipless and never looked back. I would take everyone's advice and purchase SPDs so that you can adjust the tension to the lightest setting. Getting out before a wreck is not as hard as it seems. Just a simple twist and you're free. They make climbing so much easier, rough terrain can be tackled with more confidence, and you never have to deal with your shins being broken to bits. However, this is an opinion, and clipless is not for everyone. But I would definitely give it a shot.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

desert guy said:


> I went to my LBS today to check on some platform pedals, and was told to skip them and go straight to clipless.


They make more money that way.



> I know that I do need to go clipless sooner or later, but I am a bit freaked out.


You don't _need _to do anything. Ride flats if you like flats. Lots of people do.

BTW, you have stumbled upon an "religious" issue that is hotly debated. My bottom line though is that there's no reason not to run whichever pedals you feel most confident on, that provide you the most fun.


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## desert guy (May 12, 2012)

Thanks for all of the advise. I'm going to give it a try with the adjustable pedals. Its true, I'll never know for sure till I try.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

getagrip said:


> If you have 2 months under your belt, I say go for it, but don't tackle the toughest terrain right off the bat because you WILL fall, even on easy terrain. The idea of riding clipless scared me too at first, but after my first ride, I was hooked. Now, there have been several times where I've had very close calls trying to get my feet out of the pedals, but it is really not that bad - I practiced clipping and unclipping quite a few times before my first ride in clipless. Also, you can set the tension on many clipless SPD pedals - kind of like a ski binding so your shoes will pop out easier at first. After a couple of rides, you can adjust the tension. Anyway, I say go for it! Just be careful and take your time.


I agree. I ride clipless using SPD's and love it. I would not ride any other way. You will need to learn to get unclipped and when you start you will fall over a few times. It happens to everyone so don't get discouraged. The worst part is when you stop after a ride and simply fall over. Frustrating, but in time you get the muscle memory and will be able to unclip easily. The benefit is extra power to the pedals and control of the bike by bring locked in. I can go down very rocky descents with 26" hardtail and simply stand the pedals letting the rear end bounce. No fear of a pedal slipping out under me and plenty control to slide the rear tire if I need to.


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## jbk123 (May 20, 2012)

My understanding is that learning certain skills is better learned with flats.

The advice I got from a local MTBer (who didn't say the above, but does seem to agree with it -- I've only been doing this about 2 months myself) is to wait until I've had a few more months experience. If/when I switch, to then take it easy for a while so I clipping in/out becomes an unconscious habit.

There are also pedals with flats on one side and clipless on the other which would let you do either depending on how you fell, though I couldn't tell you anything about them other than their existence


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## desert guy (May 12, 2012)

JoePAz said:


> I agree. I ride clipless using SPD's and love it. I would not ride any other way. You will need to learn to get unclipped and when you start you will fall over a few times. It happens to everyone so don't get discouraged. The worst part is when you stop after a ride and simply fall over. Frustrating, but in time you get the muscle memory and will be able to unclip easily. The benefit is extra power to the pedals and control of the bike by bring locked in. I can go down very rocky descents with 26" hardtail and simply stand the pedals letting the rear end bounce. No fear of a pedal slipping out under me and plenty control to slide the rear tire if I need to.


This is what Im taking about. I have a hardtail as well, and going down hill on rocky terrain, I'm constantly fighting to keep my feet on the pedals. There is something to be said about injuries sustained when your feet come off of the pedals.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

I don't know, with only 2 months of riding I would stick with a good set of flat pedals and develop your skills. Clipless are a double edged sword; on one hand you can learn a nice smooth pedal stroke (pulling up on pedals is not a good pedal stroke) and can gain some balance skills but on the other hand it tends to lead to a diminished level of bike control because you are always relying on being able to throw it around with your feet.

I think most riders should give clipless a try at some point in their biking lives but clipless is not the end all, be all. If anyone tells you that you can't do something with one type of pedal or another then punch them straight in the throat because they're wrong. You can climb hills with the best of them on flat pedals and you can ride hardcore DH with clips, it doesn't matter the equipment. What differentiates what your personal choice will be is your level of comfort with bikes and bike terrain and your requirements for aid from your equipment.

If you spend all your time worrying about "will I be able to clip out if I can't get over that log pile?" then you will never fully commit to tackling the obstacle. For advanced riders I think the choice is 100% whatever you feel comfortable with but for beginners and most intermediate riders I think they would progress much faster by sticking with a GOOD set of flat pedals and proper flat soled shoes (no running shoes or hiking boots, shoes that will interface with the pedals properly).

People get pushed into clipless pedals for no good reason, only the promise that it's what everyone else is doing. If you've actually spent some time on a bike you begin to realize that both types of pedals can hang out side by side, one excelling here and one excelling there but with no appreciable differences for anyone but the most elite level racers. Some people feel more comfortable on one and others on another, doesn't mean that you're wrong to choose one; you're only wrong if you spit out regurgitated opinion like it's fact about one being superior to another.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm a clipless guy myself, but...

Sometimes I think I switched too early. It's not the end of the world. I bought some flat pedals for something else and practiced a few technical skills with them too. I'm pretty happy with where I am now.

I think if you can't do a bunny hop with flat pedals, you can't do a bunny hop. I'm not going to claim I'm not a bit smoother and don't get a bit more lift with clipless pedals, but doing it on flat pedals meant I had to learn to actually do it right. I'm pretty committed to most things I do on clipless, but I can't quite commit to wheelies on them either. At least, not big ones that might overrotate. I've been meaning to revisit that actually.

My flats are some basic Redline Alloy pedals. They're much better than the resin test-ride pedals that came on your bike, or some of the metal-caged flats. I'm sure they'd compare less favorably to a more serious DH or FR pedal, but they were also $15.

Whether it makes more sense to go clipless now, never, or later is something you'll have to guess for yourself. The shoes are a bit expensive and you need not to be a cheapskate about them, which is annoying - it raises cost of entry a fair amount.

Just don't write off either system.


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## KingReign (Jun 20, 2012)

If you are doing a more cross country type ride, you will be much happier moving to clip-ins. Be prepared for the beginning stages of getting used to them and tipping over a few times. After a couple rides, you'll be totally used to it. I recommend the shimano clip ins. They have any easy allen wrench adjustment that adjusts how easy it is to clip in and out. Our your first few rides you can set it pretty loose and then tighten them as you get more and more used to them.


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## desert guy (May 12, 2012)

KingReign said:


> If you are doing a more cross country type ride, you will be much happier moving to clip-ins. Be prepared for the beginning stages of getting used to them and tipping over a few times. After a couple rides, you'll be totally used to it. I recommend the shimano clip ins. They have any easy allen wrench adjustment that adjusts how easy it is to clip in and out. Our your first few rides you can set it pretty loose and then tighten them as you get more and more used to them.


This its what I'm thinking. Everyone here does have excellent points that make me think...


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Zebrahum nailed it, couldn't have said it better.


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## Reverend_Maynard (Mar 16, 2012)

I'm curious what skill you will not be able to pick up while riding on clipless that you will need to know if you always ride clipless? I don't know that I can do a bunnyhop on flats, but since all my bikes are clipless and I can't see myself ever switching to flats, does it matter?


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Reverend_Maynard said:


> I'm curious what skill you will not be able to pick up while riding on clipless that you will need to know if you always ride clipless? I don't know that I can do a bunnyhop on flats, but since all my bikes are clipless and I can't see myself ever switching to flats, does it matter?


In my own case, after riding clipless for 15+ years I ditched them to better my jumping skills. It took me quite a while to stop jumping off the pedals when I hit the lip because I'd developed a bad habit/technique. I still use clipless for the trail/XC bike but usually have flats on the DH bike.
I think it would be a bit analogous to a pilot learning to fly vs. piloting a computer controlled craft. There are times when a clipless pedal will fail or a cleat will break and those skills would come in handy.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Reverend_Maynard said:


> I'm curious what skill you will not be able to pick up while riding on clipless that you will need to know if you always ride clipless? I don't know that I can do a bunnyhop on flats, but since all my bikes are clipless and I can't see myself ever switching to flats, does it matter?


I think I have a faster, smoother bunny hop that costs me less energy. As a result, I can flow through trails with obstacles a lot faster.


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## pfox90 (Aug 8, 2010)

BushwackerinPA said:


> SPD you cna adjust the tenison and it will eventually make you a better XC/trail rider.
> 
> If it wasnt easier noone would do it.


It doesn't make you a better rider, it makes it easier. Learning an efficient pedal stroke and having good technique makes you a better rider. Clipless can just make you sloppy.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

If you need to practice wheelies or manuals - handy for getting up and over some things on trails - flat pedals can be safer and more confidence inspiring, as it is easier to get off the bike if you over-do it.

When I got into clipless pedals, I lost confidence at some rocky spots, rode them too timidly, and consequently fell more. I had to put the flat pedals back on the bike to convince myself that those spots are ridable. After a while I missed the clipless pedals...

There's a learning curve. It takes time and repetitions to get where you can put a foot down without thinking about it. Also: clipless is not compulsory


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## Jimmi323 (Jun 19, 2012)

I've always wondered why clipless pedals are called clipless when it's that kind of pedal that you...well... _clip into_.

Shouldn't a platform pedal be called clipless?


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Jimmi323 said:


> I've always wondered why clipless pedals are called clipless when it's that kind of pedal that you...well... _clip into_.
> 
> Shouldn't a platform pedal be called clipless?


Please use the search function. Or Google.


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## kade119 (Jun 17, 2012)

if i were you, i'd stay on flat pedals until you believe you're an experienced rider, if you're having to set a foot down often then I'd wait. I'd ride until you feel comfortable on you're bike, like they stated above it also depends on the type of terrain, if the trails are rugged and lots of switchbacks then be sure you're ready...


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## desert guy (May 12, 2012)

To be honest, this thread makes me think. After reading, I feel its probably better to ride a bit more to determine if its time to go this direction.


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## Cormac (Aug 6, 2011)

Who says you "have to" go clipless? You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. You could wear full body armor and ride XC, you'll die of heat stroke, but if you want you could do that. Do what your comfortable with. Clipless aren't for everyone. They have advantages sure, but flats can be great too if you have a good pair and the right shoes to go with em. 

My stock pedals were metal, but horrible at holding my shoes on em. Then I picked up a $30 pair of sunringle zuzu pedals, rode those for a few months before finally trying clipless. Got a pair of Shimano M540's and some inexpensive shoes to go with em. I spend $110 on that set up. Just as a test to see if I'd like it or not. Now I can't see myself riding flats again. I still fall attached to the bike as I didn't have the right size allen wrench to adjust the tension, so it's still at the factory setting. Right in the middle. It's not second nature yet. Getting there, but it's only been about a month.


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

I'm going clip less for sure. I'm tired of rocky trails bumping me off the pedals.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

try both. personally, i would rather have all my teeth pulled using pliers than ride my bike on my local trails with platform pedals.


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## Jimmi323 (Jun 19, 2012)

zebrahum said:


> Please use the search function. Or Google.


Down boy! I just asked a simple question, if you don't feel like answering it, ignore it.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Jimmi323 said:


> Down boy! I just asked a simple question, if you don't feel like answering it, ignore it.


I said please. But seriously, do that.


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## desert guy (May 12, 2012)

Last night, I went on a short 5 mile ride on the mountain with a friend of mine. There were some sections that were flat out too advanced for me to do, so I walked those sections. There were other sections that were challenging for me, but I tried them. I had to jump off of the pedals several times, one time would have been pretty bad had I not bailed quickly. I'm afraid that if I go clipless at this time, I will hold myself back. I'm going to get a good set of platforms and shoes, and try that out. I just don't feel comfortable yet. Thanks to all for your help and advice.


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## Abagaba (May 30, 2011)

Desert Guy, if you go with a good quality platform, pair 'em up with a shoe that has a good sticky sole. A Stealth S1 sole used on the Five Ten brand shoes. They make climbing and riding shoes that stick to platforms well. The Red Baron or Sam Hill are light weight, comfy and work well if you have to hike a bike. You can get high tops if you prefer. Also, you can wear them when you are doing other activities besides riding(I just love dual purpose gear


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## pecsokak (Sep 23, 2010)

i went clipless a few months after starting, rode like that for about a month, but was riding timidly, falling more and have much less fun. went back to flats for about a year, and then went back to clipless. now i love clipless, but am very glad i waited a while. now its no problem but i really needed my skills to develop first.

the difference between stock pedals and 10-20 dollar bmx style flat pedals is really apparent. if your having trouble staying on in bumpy sections just get a cheap pair of flats and make sure your wearing good shoes (not cross treker/tennis shoe types something with a flat bottom. indoor soccer shoes work well or skate shoes)


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

The other things I like about clipless are the efficency gains. This comes from 2 things. 

1) Stiff shoe
2) Foot position. 

1) Clipless shoes are stiff. This means that every pedal stroke you can direct power from your legs to the shoe and into the pedal. Softer shoes tend to roll the foot over the pedal and is wasted energy. The difference is dramatic and on acceleration you really feel like you can rocket away with stiff shoe. 

2) Clipless require you put the ball of the foot on the pedal vs the arch. Castual riding is easy to put the arch ove the pedal and it sort of in the middle and fits easliy. However is not the place to put you foot for optimal power. In the old old days toe clips (which is were the terms come from) were good in that it put your good in the right spot. You could only put your foot forward until caught by the cage. However you had two choices with those. Lock down the the toe with the straps and getting out was very hard. Or leave them loose and get out easy, but not be fully locked in. Plus getting going from stop meat flipping the pedal to get your foot in the toe cage or drag it on the ground. Toe clipless pedals allowed for still shoes, positive locking and easy unlocking when you learned the motion.


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## desert guy (May 12, 2012)

Abagaba said:


> Desert Guy, if you go with a good quality platform, pair 'em up with a shoe that has a good sticky sole. A Stealth S1 sole used on the Five Ten brand shoes. They make climbing and riding shoes that stick to platforms well. The Red Baron or Sam Hill are light weight, comfy and work well if you have to hike a bike. You can get high tops if you prefer. Also, you can wear them when you are doing other activities besides riding(I just love dual purpose gear


This is what I'm looking into.



pecsokak said:


> i went clipless a few months after starting, rode like that for about a month, but was riding timidly, falling more and have much less fun. went back to flats for about a year, and then went back to clipless. now i love clipless, but am very glad i waited a while. now its no problem but i really needed my skills to develop first.
> 
> 
> > This is exactly where I'm at.


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## BigGK (Jun 22, 2012)

Very informative thread, thanks!


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## falconpunch79 (May 30, 2012)

Just like every decision I make about cycling, I like to think about how it will affect my enjoyment of the sport. Certainly clipless made road cycling more efficient and thus faster (and more fun). However out on the trails, I found myself thinking too much, about clearing obstacles and sizing up climbs (and the cost of failure). Ultimately, I decided that flat pedals let me enjoy wheeling off the pavement in a much more confident manner than I did with clipless. I didn't experience any noticable change in efficiency, no improper foot position, and my feet slip off the pedals with less frequency than falling while riding clipless. But as most people have mentioned, its whatever floats your boat (or spins your wheels).


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

why not try both at once?
do flat on the left, clipless on the right for a week
do flat on the right, clipless on the left for a week

after 2 weeks you'll know for sure what to do :thumbsup:


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## Tech420 (May 19, 2011)

I went clipless after about 2 or 3 months when I was still VERY new to mountain biking. I found a small grass hill and started going up it in a gear I knew I couldn't reach the top in so I could learn to kick out when I needed to. Sure the first ride or two you have a few tipovers, but they are all at stopping speeds so you don't get hurt. Kicking out becomes second nature and after a short time you can kick out almost as fast as stepping off. I have no problems kicking out if I happen to get stuck on a log or something. I found myself charging much more and being able to clear things easily that I struggled with. It is nice to be able to keep the power down through tough climbs and rocky sections where as previously I could not keep my feet planted to keep peddling.


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## Eacook1 (Jan 2, 2012)

zebrahum said:


> Clipless are a double edged sword; on one hand you can learn a nice smooth pedal stroke (pulling up on pedals is not a good pedal stroke)


I have to respectfully disagree with this. Pedaling in circles is suppose to get you the most efficiency. So pulling up with your foot while it's coming up is preferred when sitting down and spinning.

Here is an explanation that explains better than I can. 
http://m.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/training-fitness/perfect-pedal-stroke

I've been riding clipless for 20 years. I don't ever think about un-clipping. It just becomes muscle memory after awhile. I ride some very technical stuff with clips. Sometimes if I can't get my foot clipped in on a technical downhill I will just adjust my foot position and ride on the platform without being clipped in.

It really is personally preference but i bet (someone may prove me wrong), there isn't a single xc racer that uses platforms.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Eacook1 said:


> I have to respectfully disagree with this. Pedaling in circles is suppose to get you the most efficiency. So pulling up with your foot while it's coming up is preferred when sitting down and spinning.
> 
> Here is an explanation that explains better than I can.
> Perfect Pedal Stroke: Cycling Training Tips | Bicycling Magazine
> ...


Here is a direct quote about the upward pedal stroke from that website you linked "Even though you feel like you're pulling your foot through the back of the stroke, you're not"

Like it or hate it, this guy has a lot of information about cycling:
The #1 Lie About Pedaling Technique | Mountain Bike Training Programs

Do I agree with 100% of the things he says? No, but there is a lot of research out there that supports the same conclusion as this article. It basically comes down to the fact that the muscles that lift your leg are much weaker than the ones to press it down on a bike. A proper pedaling technique involves lifting your leg weight, but not pulling the pedals. This is an amazingly common misconception and has been passed down from person to person through friends and bike shops alike.

Bottom line: if you can pedal properly, you can do it on any pedal system. There is no reason to claim one is superior to another for 99% of riders. The main reason you don't see pro XC riders on clipless is that the shoes they wear are incredibly stiff. The stiff soles allow maximum transmission of energy from leg to bike. Every minute ounce of energy is key in pro level racing so racers will take every ounce they can get. For those riders, they are very comfortable on the bike and clipless will offer no reduction in the level of comfort they feel on the bike. Even for the best every day riders, there is a level of apprehension associated with not being able to bail at will. There is where the real distinction comes in between flats and clipless, a rider will always ride better when they are comfortable on the bike. Some riders feel more comfortable with flats and some with clipless, that's why you make a choice for one or the other.


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## CajunJamie (Mar 28, 2012)

I just converted to clipless from a platform pedal with a toe-in cage. Here is what I discovered. 

1) I rode after a rain with a platform pedal. I could not keep my feet on the pedal it was so slick.
2) I switched to an SPD pedal
3) I went over the handle bars once going slow over a log. My first wipeout on my new bike, and it was fun!
4) I topped a hill after a climb, was trying to get my right foot clipped in, came to a stop, could not unclip my left food so I fell over into thorns (and it was fun!)
5) I loosened my clips and now on some downhills a foot comes loose, but that did not cause a problem.
6) My feet were sore after the first couple rides because the arches were not used to "pulling up".

Bottom line, I am getting much more comfortable with the clipless. Overall they are more efficient. At the same time, I am much more cautious over logs, going through ditches, etc.


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## Eacook1 (Jan 2, 2012)

Zebrahum, I miss interpreted what you were saying by not pulling up with your feet. That article you linked describes what I try to do. I don't feel like I am pulling up with my feet, rather just pedaling in circles and lifting my leg as it comes up.

Ride what your comfy with, I think we agree on that. 

Cheers


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## wahday (Mar 23, 2012)

So, when I switched to clipless I did it on my road bike first and then the mountain bike (using SPDs and not road bike clipless like LOOK). There is less danger of falling over on the road bike since you are not dealing with obstacles or rough terrain. That helped me get used to it (though I fell over then as well). It was challenging at first on the mountain bike and I diggered more than a few times (usually in stupid scenarios like too tight a turn on sandy surface), but overall I find it way superior for many reasons and I am used to it now. I still set my pedals so they are easy to get out of, though I’ve been tightening them a bit more lately. 

The issue for me was that I was getting a lot of knee pain with clips or flats during long rides. I have a tendency to roll to the outside of my foot on one side and try as I might not to do it, after 20 miles or so, I forget and then it hurts like crazy. With clipless, your foot is locked in and can’t really roll over so that rectified the knee pain. 2 years later, I have never had that pain again (and I used to get it every ride). So, that was enough for me. But I really like the power I have, the ability to lift the bike to hop obstacles and the improved performance on acceleration with clipless. 

There really is no right answer. I know plenty of people who ride flats and smoke me in almost every facet, so go with what you feel comfortable with. But if you have the time and money, I say its worth a try to see how you like it (you could even borrow a pair of pedals from a friend – shoes may not be so easy though…)


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

I got Shimano pedals that are flat on one side, clipless on the other. Debate solved! I clip out when it's really technical or steep, clip in for everything else. However, I am starting to ride more and more stuff clipped in as my comfort level increases. I do get some knee pain after long rides that I didn't have with flat pedals, which is about my biggest complaint. (I've only been on a bike for a little over a month, started riding clipless about 3 weeks after I got my bike, for some background, so I am an ultra noob).


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## vortmax (Jan 1, 2011)

I jumped into clipless when I first got my bike, but I had been riding clipless on the road for quite a few years prior. Even once clipping out becomes habit, you will still fall from time to time. Just this weekend, I fell in the finishers chute when I stopped to let them strip the timing chip. Leaned a touch too far to the clipped in side and was so gassed that I couldn't react and went over.

Some also say that it makes you a timid rider....I say it encourages you to ride inside your limits.


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## TheYoungConnoisseur (May 17, 2012)

Coming from my entire life of racing motorcycles I just can't get used to ridding clipped in.
No doubt about it being way more efficient but personally I just can't do it. If I were racing road then of course id do it, but technical stuff where I could get hurt badly falling down a hill or w/e to gain effiency no thanks.


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## pattongb (Jun 5, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> I don't know, with only 2 months of riding I would stick with a good set of flat pedals and develop your skills. Clipless are a double edged sword; on one hand you can learn a nice smooth pedal stroke (pulling up on pedals is not a good pedal stroke) and can gain some balance skills but on the other hand it tends to lead to a diminished level of bike control because you are always relying on being able to throw it around with your feet.
> 
> *I think most riders should give clipless a try at some point in their biking lives but clipless is not the end all, be all. If anyone tells you that you can't do something with one type of pedal or another then punch them straight in the throat because they're wrong. You can climb hills with the best of them on flat pedals and you can ride hardcore DH with clips, it doesn't matter the equipment. What differentiates what your personal choice will be is your level of comfort with bikes and bike terrain and your requirements for aid from your equipment. *
> 
> ...


Ok let me dispel some myths: The above bold is simply WRONG. There ARE things you can do with clipless that you simply cannot do, or do as well, on platforms. Its not arguable its a matter of physics. Also the guy who says this is a "religious" issue is also being dramatic. Religion is based upon a premise that is not provable and takes faith to adhere to. Being clipless has benefits. That is fact and does not require faith. Those who argue otherwise are people who love their platforms and refuse to admit that anyone using clipless may have even the most remote advantage.

Now all that being said. Are you going to XC race? Do you aspire to ride tougher and tougher terrain? Do you climb a lot? You dont need clipless to be a good, even a great mountain biker. You dont have to do it just because everyone else does. If your looking to get EVERYTHING out of your experience you can get, and to push yourself as far as you can; or you plan to compete, go clipless. Otherwise do what you are comfortable with and dont let anyone else tell you your doing it wrong....


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

pattongb said:


> Ok let me dispel some myths: The above bold is simply WRONG. There ARE things you can do with clipless that you simply cannot do, or do as well, on platforms. Its not arguable its a matter of physics. Also the guy who says this is a "religious" issue is also being dramatic. Religion is based upon a premise that is not provable and takes faith to adhere to. Being clipless has benefits. That is fact and does not require faith. Those who argue otherwise are people who love their platforms and refuse to admit that anyone using clipless may have even the most remote advantage.


Clearly, I disagree. Could you actually explain your position? It's a little silly to compare the two by saying one you can't pick your foot straight up on the pedal and stick with platforms, but you can cheater hop by pulling up on your feet just like you can with clipless much like you can perform any other cycling movement with clips or flats. From someone who has rode toe clips, clipless, and flats each for a very long time I can say that there is no difference for anyone but someone who gets paid to ride their bikes full time.

The fun part of the internet is that you can apparently call out someone without actually posing a rebuttal!


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

the thing is it is easier. and is this suppose to be about fun? If you find it easier do it. 

to those who afraid, keep being afraid, youll never be as fast up or down than someone else of equal skill on clipless. Seriously never. I know I am sounding like jerk but I have never met a rider who was faster than me with flats, I have met tons with clipless who crush me. It not all about speed for most, so if you really do not care than ride what you want.

IMO riding flats builds skill for riding flats and not for riding clipless.


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## desert guy (May 12, 2012)

BushwackerinPA said:


> IMO riding flats builds skill for riding flats and not for riding clipless.


I don't think this can be 100% true. I think basic skills can be built on flats before you go to clipless.

Lots of good info here. Thanks.


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## big terry (Apr 22, 2012)

being that i havent been on a bike in nearly 30 years til this spring, i have no illusions- im staying on platforms until i feel my bike handling skills are sufficient. at that point i may try clipless, but not until then. i have enough issues with balance and negotiating obstacles without having to add yet another facet of something that will screw up if i do it wrong.

not saying i wont switch, just saying im not doing it this year. im just not confortable with the concept just yet.


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## Trail Addict (Nov 20, 2011)

Clipless pedals are the only way to go. When I made the switch to them my speed and endurance improved big time.

My handling skills also became much better. I became more confident blasting through rock gardens and technical sections.


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## Rob94hawk (Jun 17, 2011)

BushwackerinPA said:


> the thing is it is easier. and is this suppose to be about fun? If you find it easier do it.
> 
> to those who afraid, keep being afraid, youll never be as fast up or down than someone else of equal skill on clipless. Seriously never. I know I am sounding like jerk but I have never met a rider who was faster than me with flats, I have met tons with clipless who crush me. It not all about speed for most, so if you really do not care than ride what you want.
> 
> IMO riding flats builds skill for riding flats and not for riding clipless.


I'm gonna have to agree with this somewhat. I ride with flats. I dog it on hills and I get left behind. But I'm a seasoned beginner and I know if I'm going to beat these hills I'm gonna have to upgrade my pedals. And I'm gonna need to get over that fear of being anchored to the bike...

My question is, how fast can you get your feet out of those clips if you need too?


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## Trail Addict (Nov 20, 2011)

Rob94hawk said:


> My question is, how fast can you get your feet out of those clips if you need too?


It takes a couple weeks to fully get adjusted to the pedals. Keep in mind that no matter what you will eat it a couple times while getting used to the pedals. However once you fully get adapted, disengaging them is a cinch. I am so used to it that when I'm climbing and my chain slips off I can unclip myself before falling over. Or when I am bombing down tight singletrack and there is another rider climbing I can stop abruptly and unclip in 1 second.

Be sure to get a Shimano SPD set up, it is simply the best when it comes to mountain clipless systems. Also loosen up the tension screws on the pedals for the first couple of weeks so it will be easier for you to unclip. Then when you get used to them tighten those suckers down for maximum performance.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

big terry said:


> im staying on platforms until i feel my bike handling skills are sufficient.


I'm gonna have to agree with this somewhat  ... based on my experience transitioning to clipless. I really needed to be somewhat confident in the slightly technical seeming spots on my regular routes.


Rob94hawk said:


> My question is, how fast can you get your feet out of those clips if you need too?


I have no way to measure it... must be way less than a second from realising that I'm falling to having a foot on the ground.

Some have speculated that getting a foot down from a clipless pedal may *sometimes* be even faster than from a "proper" flat pedal. From a flat pedal, you need to lift the foot a little to disengage your shoe from the spikes, move the foot away from the large platform, and then put the foot down. Once you are over the clipless learning curve, putting a foot down is a single continuous movement to push the heel away from the bike and down.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

A descent in some truly ridiculous riding conditions today is the first time I've wanted not to be attached to the bike in a few years. And I wonder if I'd have been okay with it if I was on my own bike...

I no longer have trouble getting my foot out if I start to go over. If anything, it's the annoyance of getting clipped in again if I'm still rolling and bouncing around that bothers me. I consider it my reminder to stay clipped in, take the time I need to set up my lines, and then commit.

EDIT: Oh yeah - I don't think switching to clipless is going to make you a whole lot faster on climbs. At least, unless you're having trouble staying on your pedals. And if you're not using decent pedals and shoes, you're setting yourself up to fail here.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Rob94hawk said:


> I'm gonna have to agree with this somewhat. I ride with flats. I dog it on hills and I get left behind. But I'm a seasoned beginner and I know if I'm going to beat these hills I'm gonna have to upgrade my pedals. And I'm gonna need to get over that fear of being anchored to the bike...
> 
> My question is, how fast can you get your feet out of those clips if you need too?


quite honestly I can get my feet to the ground quicker with clipless than with flats. I have more issues getting started IMO.


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## Bjdraw (Jun 3, 2012)

I've ridden clipless for years and don't even think about clipping out. It quickly became second nature to me and the only reason I can think of not to ride clipless is cost -- cycle shoes are more expensive than many sneakers. I don't even remember it being that hard to get used to clipping out. I rode around the neighborhood a few times and stopped a lot until I was comfortable. The other thing is that anyone who rides hard falls, it is hard to know if the any particular crash would've been prevented if you were clipped in or not.


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## Eacook1 (Jan 2, 2012)

Rob94hawk said:


> My question is, how fast can you get your feet out of those clips if you need too?


Actuall the more I think about it I agree with Perttime. It's just a different movement of your foot. A slight twist and push to the side to unclip rather than pulling up and off. That's the main reason people have trouble adjusting to clipless, it just requires a different movement of your feet and until that becomes second nature you will fall a few times.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GaspinForAir (Jun 19, 2012)

i just went clipless friday, messed around in the backyard riding slowly and unclippling to a stop. I fell once but that was becasue i tried a stand still bunny hop like a idiot, oh yea i bunny hop then straight over to the ground LOL 

So after that i packed up and head off to a trail were it got a little more difficult and took a while to just get use to them being different than flats, the corners/switchbacks got me alot the first day since i was used to putting a foot down when needed. i had wiped more in that one day than the whole 4 months i've been riding, sore and felt like i've been ran over by a truck, i had mixed feelings and was scared i wasted $120. next day i headed to the other local trail and things were different, didn't even crash once, felt more power in spots on the trail, was faster in ruff spots, and clearing the 6inch log on the ground alot better. Had so much fun i went back today LOL usually i only go twice a week since its a good 30 miles to one trail and 45 to the other.

I know they say clipless can give u bad habits, but i for one say it has improved my cornering. it made me realize that i wasn't look through the turn and that was causing me to have fear use my brakes and foot out on corners or have your rear wheel slide out from under u clipless like i did my first day. 

And i do agree with the guys saying its just as quick or quicker to get unclipped and foot out, because i have saved myself a couple times already in just the 3 days i have been using them. But the rest of the time i wasn't but i believe that will change after using them for a bit and getting muscle memory/natural instinct with them. So far i have them on the loosest setting and they come loose pretty easy if i want them too, i can yank straight up with a quick strong jerk and they will come loose on this setting. I really hadn't had any probs with them coming loose when not wanting them too on this setting either as of yet, so i don't even see me tighting them much just for safety reasons in crashes


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## Edirty6 (Jun 23, 2012)

im a platform kinda guy. tried clipless and i liked them but the platforms just feel better to me, and if you invest in a good set of platforms, they'll feel like there glued to your feel with the right shoes, Five10 make the best probably, their soles stick to pedals like no other


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

Wellgo had a magnesium pedal, platform on one side, spd clipless on other. $40 can be found online.

I rock w clipless but fellow riders who r better than me go platform 

sent from one of my 4 gold leafed iphone 4s's


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## Sean K (Mar 25, 2012)

BushwackerinPA said:


> IMO riding flats builds skill for riding flats and not for riding clipless.


No way man. While I've pretty much rode nothing but SPD since the 1990's, try learning to wheelie/manual/*bunnyhop properly while clipped in. I guarantee the local emergency room will get to know you quick.

To this day I cannot properly *bunnyhop because of all the bad habits I learned by switching to clipless before I developed an advanced skillset. I'm now at 33 having to re-train myself in the fundamentals on flats.

*Not lame compression jump, but proper 'American' bunny-hop, with full handlebar pull, leg compression, pushing off with rear wheel and clearing 2+ foot obstacles.


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## Trail Addict (Nov 20, 2011)

I rode flats for a year before making the switch to clipless. I think riding flats helped me build skill for when I made the switch.

It really didn't take me long to get used to clipless at all. I did fall a few times in the first days though. Now I ride clipless with a lot of confidence. It is kind of a scary thought when you think about yourself being attached to the bike, especially if your riding consists of gnarly downhills, but once you get used to them it's not bad at all.

As for the people saying they don't have money for clipless. There is a pedal set from Shimano (I forgot the model name) that only runs about $50.00 to $65.00 and a shoe (which I also forgot the model name) that is only $85.00. Shimano SPD's are the best for mountain clipless set ups in my opinion. They really stay locked into place, but are very easy to get out of.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Sean K said:


> No way man. While I've pretty much rode nothing but SPD since the 1990's, try learning to wheelie/manual/*bunnyhop properly while clipped in. I guarantee the local emergency room will get to know you quick.
> 
> To this day I cannot properly *bunnyhop because of all the bad habits I learned by switching to clipless before I developed an advanced skillset. I'm now at 33 having to re-train myself in the fundamentals on flats.
> 
> *Not lame compression jump, but proper 'American' bunny-hop, with full handlebar pull, leg compression, pushing off with rear wheel and clearing 2+ foot obstacles.


I had a moment of blaming clipless pedals for not developing brilliant bike handling skills, but actually I think that it just changed the order of skill building for me. So I didn't learn as good a bunny hop as I could have before I switched. BFD, I switched back for a while too, same as you're doing, and while I can't clear a full-sized MTB over a 2' obstacle either, there aren't a lot of people who can; I'm at peace with it and it's really not a skill that comes up much on trails I've ridden. I think that having my feet nice and securely attached to my bike (I started in 2000, not sure if good flats were out yet but I hadn't seen any) meant that I could focus on other important things, like line selection and developing a pedaling technique that lets me climb on crappy surfaces.

I really don't think it was the end of the world for me to spend some time in the winter sessioning stairs and working on fundamentals. I could integrate them into my real riding as soon as I got them sorted out. I'm sure my greater comfort on the bike from all the time I'd spent riding trails before re-approaching this stuff helped too.

Anyway, that's the root of my "everybody should try both but I don't really care which you settle on or what order you do it in" attitude. Although I guess I think people who are freaked out by clipless may as well just wait another season, no sense riding around on gear that's disconcerting.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Trail Addict said:


> Shimano SPD's are the best for mountain clipless set ups in my opinion.


We could argue all week about that :eekster: Let's not 

I am happy I started with Time clipless pedals. I see that many do just fine with CB. There's others out there and I'm sure they all have their advantages. Shimano's 520 is surely good bang for the buck, if you like a pedal that doesn't allow your foot much "float".


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## big terry (Apr 22, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Anyway, that's the root of my "everybody should try both but I don't really care which you settle on or what order you do it in" attitude. Although I guess I think people who are freaked out by clipless may as well just wait another season, no sense riding around on gear that's disconcerting.


essentially my feelings on waiting til next year (or at least several more months from now.) I am freaked out by being locked to the bike, and i am too old to just bounce back- if something gets hurt, it takes weeks to heal instead of days. it might be a different story if i knew that going to spds would make me as fast as a lot of the guys i follow around, but thats not it- im just not in that good of shape yet, nor do i have the skillset necessary.

one thing at a time. i got a lot of years of riding left in me.


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## Wanny (Jul 30, 2011)

Took me a while to go clipless... two months may be a bit early.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Time ATAC Aliums FTW!


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## BatCountry (Jun 7, 2012)

I use the Shimano PD-M324 Clipless pedals, and they are perfect since they are SPD on one side and flat on the other. The flat side has some good spikes for grip, and being that I'm a Clydesdale it means a lot that these suckers are strong..

If i come across some parts of the trail that look like I will more than likely faceplant, then I simply clip out and flip the pedals on the approach. The nice thing with these is that if you don't like being clipped in or are uncomfortable you can simply opt out.. especially if you think you might have to bail..


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Rob94hawk said:


> My question is, how fast can you get your feet out of those clips if you need too?


Once you get used to it very quickly. So quick you won't even notice the difference. However it does take time to learn this and react that way.

If you are going to make the move to clipless you have to lose the fear of falling. Every clipless rider will fall when learning. It happens to everyone. Even experienced riders will fall on occasion. It happens and you just need to forget about it. Most falls using clipless are simple and painless. Most of pain comes from that 2 seconds you are try to release, can't and you can tell you going down. Once down you are upset, dirty and unhurt.

It will also set you back a bit on really technical terrain as you will learn to get comfortable with unclipping, but it is still worth the effort.


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## Audi_Sedan (Jun 24, 2012)

*Just my 2 cents...*

I just went clipless last weekend and got 2 really nice rides in. First one was a solo run, about an 1hr, in varying terrain including alot of climbing and some decent technical switchbacks. 2nd ride was another 10+ mile run in some nice fast singletracks with a short technical climb (READ STEEP & LOOSE) into some really rocky switchback & narrow terrain.

Point is clipless inspired a lot more confidence and control.

I also want to add that IMO the cleat choice makes a HUGE difference. After reading alot of posts here and reviews, I chose a set of Shimano XT (PD-M785 Pedals), dual sided and oversized platform area for great contact when not clipped in, and chose the SH-56 Multi-Directional Cleats. I'm utilizing a set of Shimano M-087S MTB shoes.

This is a set up that allows tension adjustment to get out. On the lowest (Easiest) tension, you can clip out every bit as fast as platform pedals. I also want to add, that the SH-56 cleats allow you to clip out in nearly every direction (Except Pedal Rotation). The effort taken is so little on this setting that a knee-jerk reaction and natural motion (sideward) to throw a foot down results in instantaneous releases allowing you to catch yourself.

For those of you contemplating the jump to clipess, definitely check out these optional cleats (SH-56) with an adjustable set of pedals and you'll be fine. Good luck and keep riding!:thumbsup:


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

In my opinion the biking industry is finally coming around to rational treatment of clipless pedals. However there is still a bizarre cultural quirk where some riding circles look down on platform pedals. This normally involves cross country riders who are under the impression that platform pedals are merely a stepping stone and that real riders go clipless.

Note that the best riders in the world, the ones doing triple backflips, trials, freeriding, and downhilling, are mostly using platform pedals. Granted, many sponsored downhill racers are running clipless. But that is only some of them and they're pedalling at 35mph through boulder fields.

But yet, some shops and riders still push novices to go clipless as soon as possible. This is despite it causing injuries and making new riders nervous while constantly attempting new things. Just think about how many injury stories involve the phrase "... and I couldn't get unclipped before ... ". Even when new riders say they're confident after a few rides on clipless, the reality is frequently that they're not attempting things that they might have if riding platforms. On platforms they could plow over a log pile with little concern. Once on clips, they approach it with trepidation, put a foot down at the apex, and then push back down the trail while clipping in.

My advice is for new riders to ride platforms for at least a year or two. They will suffer fewer injuries. They will be forced to learn proper technique. They won't have a constant unsettled feeling about getting unclipped when trying new technical stuff. Best of all, they'll actually continue to try things just outside of their comfort zone. And that's all a result of not having to worry about getting away from the bike if something goes wrong.

But to do this right, special shoes are required, just like with clipless pedals To properly ride platforms, a sticky/soft sole rubber shoe such as FiveTens are required.

It is my prediction that the general sentiment of the industry is slowly shifting toward what I've just expressed. Social pressure should not be driving novice riders into riding clipless before they're ready.


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

yeah i am thinking about clipless too. have to wait and see how the trail riding goes. right im doing mostly road.


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## Trail Addict (Nov 20, 2011)

dfiler said:


> Note that the best riders in the world, the ones doing triple backflips, trials, freeriding, and downhilling, are mostly using platform pedals. Granted, many sponsored downhill racers are running clipless. But that is only some of them and they're pedalling at 35mph through boulder fields.


The real best riders in the world are all riding clipless, you know the true athletes that actually climb hills, the guys who also have to tackle challenging terrain but with hardtails and no protection except a regular helmet.

I'm talking about guys like this.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

^^^
Was just thinking about those guys.

There are as many ideas of "best" as there are mountain biking disciplines.

Interestingly, competitive downhillers are supposed to post some of the highest burst power numbers. I guess if you only get a few places to pedal, you'd better make 'em count.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

> Note that the best riders in the world, the ones doing triple backflips, trials, freeriding, and downhilling, are mostly using platform pedals. Granted, many sponsored downhill racers are running clipless. But that is only some of them and they're pedalling at 35mph through boulder fields.


these are not the best riders in the world. Thats really a separate sport, and the majority of mountain riders do not do this kind of riding.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I totally agree that flat pedals are the way to go when you are jumping off cliffs, doing flips, riding scary tall artificial structures, and such. In those environments you'd better be able to ditch the bike, so that you get to take the 10 foot fall and the following landing separately.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

dfiler said:


> My advice is for new riders to ride platforms for at least a year or two. They will suffer fewer injuries. They will be forced to learn proper technique. They won't have a constant unsettled feeling about getting unclipped when trying new technical stuff. Best of all, they'll actually continue to try things just outside of their comfort zone. And that's all a result of not having to worry about getting away from the bike if something goes wrong.


I started with platforms and toe clips (always loose) back in the late 90's. These allowed me to learn and challenge lots of tough terrain. My last ride before clipless was in Moab in spring 2002. I did 3 days up there and did not want to learn clipless in that enviroment. After that trip I went put my clipless on my bike and never looked back. For me this was the right progression as i was losing power on the climbs and level ground. It did take few rides to be confident in taking really tough terrain after the change, but it was well worth it.


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

I use platforms on my SL4. Two of my friends are clipless and when I made a trip to goodwill and found a pair of Shimano clipless shoes in my size for $4, I couldn't pass them up. I ordered the pedals for my bike and got them in yesterday. I'm eager to try them out but I already know that I'm going to feel very out of my element.


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## Ntrdr00 (Apr 10, 2012)

Try the speed play frogs, They are ultra easy to get in and out of, and provide tons of float.


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## henmar77 (Jun 27, 2012)

The bike i bought i had SPD pedals so i really had no choice for my first time. From my short experience with them i can tell you that there aren't many downsides to them except for one thing. REMEMBERING THAT YOUR CLIPPED IN! First downhill turn i went on i forgot and tried to put my foot down and instead i ate it!. After that its tattooed in your brain and i have no trouble.


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## hwtan68 (Apr 7, 2012)

had started mtb for a few months on a platform

and recently trying out clipless

on the same trail, i have fall so many times until i put back the platform

maybe the time is not ripe yet. 

i'm not conscious enough to unclip when i'm falling, totally forgotten about the clip on!


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

when i first got clipless, it was too early for me. i was still a sloppy rider and they wrecked my confidence (it was also the same year i had surgery,so i was supposed to be more careful, and the two things didnt mix well). went back to flats to improve my technical riding. it worked and helped me a ton. i learned a lot better because i was confident. i had five tens and good platforms, because you're right, stock pedals suck. Now i'm back on clipless because i'm a much better rider. there are times though, where i miss my platforms on those sketchy technical areas that i'm likely to get hung up in a pedal. Other times i love my clipless. As somebody said, they both have their pros and cons. I'm not sure where you live, but if its mostly smooth flowy trails, then clipless is going to be great. But slow speed gnarly tight corners? well, i know my preference! i'm from New england, where it can get pretty nasty, so that makes my decision even harder.


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## littlebadboy (Mar 27, 2012)

I use a dual pedal! I love it!


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## hwtan68 (Apr 7, 2012)

littlebadboy said:


> I use a dual pedal! I love it!


hi, dual pedal as in mallet? or candy type of clipless?


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## littlebadboy (Mar 27, 2012)

hwtan68 said:


> hi, dual pedal as in mallet? or candy type of clipless?


I meant dual platform/spd pedals:


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## sjhiker (Apr 25, 2008)

I went to clipless because, well the soles of my shoes were getting torn apart by the spikes on the flats. The back of my right leg was quite often getting cut but the spikes. Though I did think about wearing a soccer shinguard backwards. I found on long climbs I would often get cramps in my toes as the sole of the shoes weren't giving my sufficient support as so my foot would curve around the flatform.

So I switched to SPDs about a month ago, and while I'm not quite as brave as I used to be. There are areas where I definitely feel more confident as i don't have that feeling of my feet bouncing off the platform. Eventually, like riding a bike, unclipping will become second nature. If I think back to the first day, even clipping in was tough, but atleast now that is something I can do without thinking about it.

Downside to clipless:  if you want to go riding on it say to the store, around the block with the kids, you've got to put on your shoes. Unless you've got the combo (clipless+flat) pedals.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

littlebadboy said:


> I meant dual platform/spd pedals:


I see a negative there too: you have a 50% chance of getting the wrong side of the pedal, when you start pedaling.

The cage doesn't look like it would last long in my use.


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## OTB-O-Rama (Mar 3, 2012)

After spending a number of years off the bike, I recently pulled the trigger on a new bike and decided to hedge my bets and grab a set of Jetblack platforms and 5.10's and a nice set of Shimano Trail PD-M525 and some budget Shimano shoes. 

I tend to use the pedal for different things, oddly enough. If im heading out for a long XC day, then the clipless go on, but if im hitting bigger DH style trails, or if its my first run in a new area I tend to roll with the platforms just incase I do need to bail. 

I do love both, and would certainly reccomend that you try both and see what you like. Just make sure you give the clipless a decent try to get over the inital anxiety of being connected to the bike, and to ensure you become as fluid clipping in and out as possible.


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## Jernas (Oct 2, 2011)

I've used flats all my life and I will continue using them. I would never install any kind of clipless pedals on my bike no matter what kind of a bike it is (DH, XC, road bike...). Just looking at those clipless pedals is making me nervous. Since I've never had any problems riding flats I would advise you to buy a pair of those and just leave those clipless suicidal, demonic, certain death pedals to those not afraid of dying on a bike.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Jernas said:


> Just looking at those clipless pedals is making me nervous.


I knew that there's people who are afraid of heights, open spaces, guns, dogs, spiders, snakes, ...

This is the first time I've heard of anyone who is afraid of pedals 

For those other fears, there's all sorts of counceling and group therapies available. I don't know if any Medical Associations recognize pedalophobia as a disease.

Just Kidding  Ride what you like. Whatever puts a smile on your face :thumbsup:


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## bravo4588 (May 3, 2012)

just installed a pair of Shimano M520s! First time on clipless, expecting many falls on the trail tomorrow!!


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

bravo4588 said:


> First time on clipless, expecting many falls on the trail tomorrow!!


Do practice clipping in and out a bit before hitting real trails. Then relax. Remember that the parts of trail where you've done fine before are still the same parts of trails where you've been doing fine.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

What about clipless *and* tubeless?

I can imagine wearing funny shoes and having a big flat far down the trail. I would need to take lots of repair stuff and a spare pair of shoes, so I can fix my bike or walk out without clicking the entire way.

Really, though, do you clipless guys have a pair of normal shoes with you on the trail?


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I don't carry extra shoes. I doubt many others do either.

I go out prepared for a few flats and usually have the option to get on smoother routes if running short of patches or having other issues.

I hear some areas have nasty thorns that keep puncturing people's tires. Then tubeless may well be the best way to cope.


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## desert guy (May 12, 2012)

And after all of this time, I still haven't made a decision. I like the benefits of clipless, and the benefits of flats. I do not want a combo pedal though. I am now leaning toward flats, because I do feel that clipless may hold me back from trying what I would normally try.


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## NoobJoe (Jun 28, 2012)

Great thread guys, thanks. I'm definetly going to stick with flats for a while. But i'm going to replace the crappy plastic ones I have now.


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## bravo4588 (May 3, 2012)

perttime said:


> Do practice clipping in and out a bit before hitting real trails. Then relax. Remember that the parts of trail where you've done fine before are still the same parts of trails where you've been doing fine.


Yeah, thanks for the advice! Much appreciate it!
I got the SH56 multi-release cleats & lessened the pedal retention all the way so its easier to unclip.
Had a trial run in the parking lot, kinda having trouble clipping in but clipping out is easy.
I now believe clipless is the way to go:thumbsup:!


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

Can i ask? i have a pair of shimano dual sided (platform/clipless) for my road bike. I have SPDs in the mountain bike, and the tension goes very easy and loose. HOWEVER, these new pedals? even at the loosest tension, they are still tighter than i'd like. Much tighter than my mtb pedals. both are shimano, just slightly different design. (one has an external screw, that you could back out all the way if you wanted, and the other has an internal screw). Still, even with those differences, they shoudl feel similar but they dont.

Somebody told me the pedal spring might loosen a little over time, is that true? i cant return these pedals and they are bugging me. tight to go in, and tight to unclip. bahhh.


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## rando6432 (Jun 30, 2012)

You'll have to adjust your riding style and look ahead for potential problems which would require you to bail. I would tackle any terrain when I used to run cages and strap (way old school), but now I weigh risk/reward and usually choose safety. Rash sucks.


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## nelson73 (Jun 3, 2012)

I bought a pair of Crank Brothers 5050 2 Flats yesterday to replace the stock pedals that came with my Trek Marlin 29er. I've had the bike only a month and the stock pedals were completely shot. Went on a ride this morning and Wow! These pedals make riding so much more enjoyable they are light weight and grip very well. I have more confidence climbing and better momentum. I'm not opposed to clipless pedals but I plan on sticking with flats for the time being. I've been riding with some guys who are really good XC riders and they are hard to keep up with but, are patient and willing to show me the ropes out there on the trails and encourage me to hang in there when I get my ass kicked. There is no doubt these pedals will "up" my game on the trail.


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## littlebadboy (Mar 27, 2012)

perttime said:


> I see a negative there too: you have a 50% chance of getting the wrong side of the pedal, when you start pedaling.
> 
> The cage doesn't look like it would last long in my use.


It's cheap enough to practice clipless. It's cheap, which explains how the cage looks to you. I bought this to decide if clipless is for me. I will upgrade when I have enough money to buy better pedals... but I would still get dual ones! I love them. Works for my way of riding.



rando6432 said:


> You'll have to adjust your riding style and look ahead for potential problems which would require you to bail. I would tackle any terrain when I used to run cages and strap (way old school), but now I weigh risk/reward and usually choose safety. Rash sucks.


Great advice! This what I do on my dual pedals. I clip out when I expect that I might need to suddenly disembark the bike and clip in when I think I will be riding straight.


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

Why don't they just make quasi clip for plats? This would probably work best with steel toe boots or some other stiff toed shoe (we'd need a new type of shoe made specifically for the sport but steel toes boots could fill in the gap for a while). 

But why not have a spring of metal that comes up from the plat and over the top of the toe but with no side straps? It'd prevent you from falling forward off the pedals, allow you to use the upstrokes of your pedaling movement, and keep you from being locked to the pedal.


And about these dual pedals, do they make any that work with hard MTB shoes? I've never seen one that does.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Something like this?


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

aBicycle said:


> Why don't they just make quasi clip for plats? This would probably work best with steel toe boots or some other stiff toed shoe (we'd need a new type of shoe made specifically for the sport but steel toes boots could fill in the gap for a while).
> 
> But why not have a spring of metal that comes up from the plat and over the top of the toe but with no side straps? It'd prevent you from falling forward off the pedals, allow you to use the upstrokes of your pedaling movement, and keep you from being locked to the pedal.
> 
> And about these dual pedals, do they make any that work with hard MTB shoes? I've never seen one that does.


you might be thinking, like half clips. if you look up half-toe clips you pretty much have that. i've almost considered them, but good pedals dont have the holes to screw them in.


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Time ATAC Aliums FTW!


To me those always felt mushy and hard to get out of.


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Something like this?


Similar, but with some way to attach it to some good flat plats with spikes.

And yup, I've never seen a way to attach them.

I was thinking of something the grabbed a little further back on the foot though and that was make of spring steel.

I forgot about power grips. Will those work with spikey plats? Are they easy to get out of?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

My attitude about Time ATACs is that they're cheap, it's really difficult to clog them, they're very sturdy, and they hold my foot to the pedal. I don't have trouble clipping out, and I'm not really sure what there is to feel mushy.


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## CRchris1996 (Apr 4, 2012)

why not the wellgo wam-d10 those pedals are great im very happy with them


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## bikerbert (Aug 28, 2004)

I'm doing a 4-week experiment clipped in (Crank Brothers Candy's) vs Flats (Crank Brothers 50/50's with Straitline Amps on the way), and I've noticed a few things after being clipped in since 2002:
1) My knees/hips aren't as tight/stiff the next day, and I've had a RETUL fitting for the MTB.
2) I seem to use more of my trunk/arms and seem to have more power. 
3) Cornering is easier
4) Seemed to get more power from the hips on the downstroke and hammies from bottom dead center back around.
5) It also seems to have put some fun back in to riding again to be trying something new.

I don't think I'll race on flats, but I can definitely see how it can improve your pedaling/riding techniques.


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## dillwill (Aug 6, 2012)

Many grains of salt have been taken lurking this thread.


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## desert guy (May 12, 2012)

Well, I ended up going with platforms, and I don't regret it at all. I don't know if I will ever go clipless, honestly.


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## StuntmanMike (Jul 2, 2012)

I just switched to clipless this past week. I've ridden with cages with straps and clips since I was a kid, starting in like '92 or '93. 

I just got a new bike,and it came with platforms. I rode it ONCE and was like "no way".

So I decided to make the leap and go clipless, since it was something I had always considered doing back in the day.

There's definitely a learning curve with them, I'm not going to lie and say I haven't fallen over in the street with them (twice, then I smartened up and switched to grass, haha). But once I got used to clipping in and out, and set the tension right, I have to say that I love them.

Yes, I need to take extra care while in traffic (I currently have them on my older bike that I use for road rides) and when coming up on intersections where I may need to suddenly stop. I've been unclipping one foot early if I anticipate a situation like that.

Back in the day my mtb buddies and I used to talk about pedaling in "circles", where you try to maintain constant pressure through the complete crank revolution for a smoother and more consistant power flow. I could do that to a point in clips/straps, but with the clipless it's VERY effective. I noticed right away on this one hill that usually kicks my ass, with the clipless I power up it MUCH easier. I can keep it in a higher gear, and if I keep with the "circles" I just blast right up it.

Now this is all road riding, I haven't had them on the trail yet, so we'll see how that goes. But so far I'm sold on them.


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## arjan (Aug 12, 2012)

I ended up buying a pair of M-647 pedals, they are very easy to get in and out and give me the option to use them as platforms when I'm not all that sure about being clipped in, like tight switch backs. I have not gone on any real technical trails yet but after about 40 miles I have yet to crash and at a few occasions where I knew I was going to fall down I managed to get out in time anyway.


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## MtnMauler (Sep 6, 2012)

desert guy said:


> Well, I ended up going with platforms, and I don't regret it at all. I don't know if I will ever go clipless, honestly.


Im with you, I love my platforms and with all the rocks and deep sand on my trails I just like hte feeling of being able to jump free.


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## henmar77 (Jun 27, 2012)

After having several rides under my belt now I really wish that I had the best of both worlds. I'm not talking about clipless pedals with a platform. I'm talking about clipless shoes that have a cleat at the ball and at the arch of my foot. This would allow me to clip in at the toe for power or uphill and then switch to mid clear for downhill stability. Am I alone in this or asking for too much? I just don't feel right anymore not clipped in despite the riding senario.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## BatCountry (Jun 7, 2012)

Sounded like a good idea to me at first Henmar, but it seems like that would lead to me getting "taint punched" by the saddle because I ride with it rather high.

Then again, couldn't you modify a standard pair of clipless shoes and add secondary clip to the arch? Bet with a Dremmel you could make it fit pretty well..


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

henmar77 said:


> I'm talking about clipless shoes that have a cleat at the ball and at the arch of my foot. This would allow me to clip in at the toe for power or uphill and then switch to mid clear for downhill stability.


Sounds like shoes that make walking totally impossible.

Having the cleat near the ball of the foot allows you to drop your heels, which puts you lower on the bike and should improve downhill stability.

Also, don't keep your cleats too close to your toes. I like to have mine a little further back than most.


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## henmar77 (Jun 27, 2012)

perttime said:


> Sounds like shoes that make walking totally impossible.
> 
> Having the cleat near the ball of the foot allows you to drop your heels, which puts you lower on the bike and should improve downhill stability.
> 
> Also, don't keep your cleats too close to your toes. I like to have mine a little further back than most.


Something to think about next time

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## henmar77 (Jun 27, 2012)

BatCountry said:


> Sounded like a good idea to me at first Henmar, but it seems like that would lead to me getting "taint punched" by the saddle because I ride with it rather high.
> 
> Then again, couldn't you modify a standard pair of clipless shoes and add secondary clip to the arch? Bet with a Dremmel you could make it fit pretty well..


Maybe ill try it to my old shoes when Im ready for a new pair.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

henmar77 said:


> This would allow me to clip in at the toe for power or uphill and then switch to mid clear for downhill stability.


You're doing it wrong. The added bump absorption and articulation of your ankles is important in making sure you stay in balance and stay in control of the bike on downhills. Just move your cleats back to the ball of your foot or just slightly behind and get used to it. Standing on the arch of your foot is not a stable position, you're just reinforcing bad habits that you already have.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

keep in mind, knowing you have to "twist" to get out pedal, position of cleat on the foot can affect that a bit. the closer the cleat is to your toe, the less awkward it is to twist...for me anyway. i actually find it more stable and comfy to push the cleat back a bit, but affects my twisting-out. Especially at the 12 oclock position. its like your ankle cant twist as far in certain positions.


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## henmar77 (Jun 27, 2012)

zebrahum said:


> You're doing it wrong. The added bump absorption and articulation of your ankles is important in making sure you stay in balance and stay in control of the bike on downhills. Just move your cleats back to the ball of your foot or just slightly behind and get used to it. Standing on the arch of your foot is not a stable position, you're just reinforcing bad habits that you already have.


Thats a good tip. I'll try that.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## trailrider70 (Nov 6, 2011)

I use pedals with no clips, safer for me for high speed decents and it also ecourages me to be more agressive on hill climbs especially in very technical sections.


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## haymitch (Sep 15, 2011)

I ride clipless with my singlespeed 29er for getting around town. I originally put clipless on my am hardatil build, but hit a mud patch, went to extend my foot for stability, and when I forgot to rotate out of the pedal, I went down in the mud. After that I installed platforms on trail bike. After a day ride using sneakers my feet were killing me, I was too lazy to remove the clips from my bike shoes so all I had were sneakers since i usually rode clipless. Decided to get a pair of 5.10 Sam Hill 2 sneakers. I am loving this combo, considering going this route with my 29er as well.


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## offroadcmpr (Apr 21, 2012)

I find myself more comfortable with clipless on downhills. When I hit a really bumpy section I don't feel like my feet are going to bounce off of the pedals. 

The only time where I don't want them are on extremely steep technical sections where I know I only have a 1 in 100 chance of making it up anyway.


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