# The Pinion Gearbox



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I just got my first Pinion equipped bike, a Nicolai Argon hardtail, and it’s pretty amazing.

I’d only ever see one at a bike show, and there are few domestic frame builders using Pinion, so I reached out to Nicolai and scored an Argon on sale.

The Argon replaces a GG Shred Dogg 27.5, which was my extra bike. I wanted a hardtail to use for mellower trails and as a bikepacker, but the Argon is a trail ripper too!

I'm running the Argon with a 160mm Mattoc, 27.5 x 2.8, 210mm dropper, Quadiem 200/180 brakes, and a big cockpit (riser bars, nice and wide).

Other than the rougher ride from nohaving rear suspension, I can rally this bike just like my Shred; still working on landing a touch more forward to reduce impacts.

So the Pinion … how does it work?

It’s a 12 speed gearbox, not unlike the transmission on a moto, but it’s lighter and more compact; of course it still ain’t that light, ~2000gm weight penalty over a 12sp derailleur syestem.

So then what’s the advantage?

Gear changes are fast, change up or down as many gears as you want, super quiet, nearly zero maintenance, weather proof, centralized weight, and there’s no derailleur to damage.

I’m still breaking in the gearbox, it’s getting smoother the more I ride, shifting is becoming second nature, overall I think the Pinion is amazing sauce 👍👍


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I got in a short demo ride on a Pinion-equipped bike a few years ago and the way it works was a little odd. I'd definitely need more time with a Pinion for it to become second nature, but I definitely like the idea of a Pinion/belt drive hardtail similar to this.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I dig it. as a former bike mechanic and full-time singlespeeder, I hate dealing with derailers. I'd be more likely to ride a bike with gears if a gearbox was an option. I'll probably buy a gear-box equipped bike some day, just waiting for more options and waiting for a reason to "need" more than one gear.


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## Halfabrain (Jun 5, 2014)

Sadly, twist-grip shifting is just a total buzzkill... I'm guessing the answer is electronic pinion gearbox shifting - somebody must be working on this? Why this isn't already integrated into e-bikes I'll never know...seems so obvious, but I'm no engineer!🤟


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Halfabrain said:


> Sadly, twist-grip shifting is just a total buzzkill... I'm guessing the answer is electronic pinion gearbox shifting - somebody must be working on this? Why this isn't already integrated into e-bikes I'll never know...seems so obvious, but I'm no engineer!🤟
> 
> View attachment 1985865


there are trigger shifters you can use.

quick google search turned up these options:

Pinion MTB with very fast trigger shifting | INSTINCTIV
Shift:R Tour Pinion Thumb/Trigger Shifter | Tout Terrain (tout-terrain.de)

Unfortunately, the first one isn't sold separately. It only comes on that brand's bikes.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

As a "getting older" mountain biker, I find that trigger shifting is making my hands and fingers hurt, likely aggravating some age related arthritis. 

The twist shift is actually pretty easy to use and it doesn't bother my hands and fingers at all. 

The twist shift is far better for Pinion because it lets you dump a bunch of gears at once whereas a trigger is limited to one or two gears.

The only down side I found is shifting while braking, I still need to figure that one out, never realized I did it that much ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Harold said:


> there are trigger shifters you can use.
> 
> quick google search turned up these options:
> 
> ...


The Pinion grip shift is $115, those trigger shifter are over $500!!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Nurse Ben said:


> The Pinion grip shift is $115, those trigger shifter are over $500!!


yeah, I saw that. you'd better be committed to triggers...'cause damn.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

This makes me wonder if there is going to be a Nuvinci CVT gearbox. They make that hub, but it seems like building a gearbox to fit the existing standard size for a Pinion box would be the ticket.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Yeah, this is cool and glad you got it. Keep posting about it as you wear it in and put it thru some proper ride time.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

Halfabrain said:


> Sadly, twist-grip shifting is just a total buzzkill...


Yeah same. I had a SRAM grip shift system on my Niner I bought second hand. Absolutely hated it. 

That is largely what would keep my from considering this or even something like a Rolhoff.


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## ladljon (Nov 30, 2011)

Electric shift is available for Rohloff....https://youtu.be/5r4o951A_5c


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

That's a pretty steep weight penalty. Then again, in the near constant drivetrain-eating slop that we have here in WA it might make a whole lot of sense.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I used to ride with a guy that had one of these and he loved it. They’re super cool. With the popularity of ebikes and people being much more accepting of a bulky bottom bracket area, I’ve been surprised that these haven’t take off more the past couple years.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

ladljon said:


> Electric shift is available for Rohloff....https://youtu.be/5r4o951A_5c


Electronic shift on a Rohloff seems kind silly. I mean to me Rohloff seem to be designed for crossing countries with little to no maintenance. Having to charge something to shift them seems a counter productive.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Curveball said:


> That's a pretty steep weight penalty. Then again, in the near constant drivetrain-eating slop that we have here in WA it might make a whole lot of sense.


It's not noticeable unless you hang the bike on a scale, but what I do notice is the back end feels like a single speed, much easier to do pivot turns, less weight out back and weight down low and centered.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I used to ride with a guy that had one of these and he loved it. They’re super cool. With the popularity of ebikes and people being much more accepting of a bulky bottom bracket area, I’ve been surprised that these haven’t take off more the past couple years.


I think the unknowns and price hold folks back, but I'm totally sold, now I'm thinking about an FS version to replace my Lithium


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> now I'm thinking about an FS version to replace my Lithium


Lower unsprung weight is where the magic should happen. I know I'd like to try it.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The one Pinion bike I got to demo ride was a Zerode. The suspension on that bike was exceptionally plush compared to what I was used to.


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## Halfabrain (Jun 5, 2014)

Carl Mega said:


> Lower unsprung weight is where the magic should happen. I know I'd like to try it.


I've tried a couple different FS gearbox bikes at Sea Otter... No doubt the magic is there: centered weight supported by suspension, essentially unlimited gear ratio possibilities, shifting under load, potentially maintenance free transmission, stronger rear wheel with symmetric spoke angles, reduced rear hub weight, even possibly lower overall weight with reduction in drivebelt vs. chain ... I think the list goes on.

IMO the shifter mechanism itself is still the crux of the current design problems (two cable thumb shifter? Blah...)

Besides, I think Nurse Ben is really feeling the benefit of those sweet OneUp Carbon bars instead of the gearbox!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Nurse Ben said:


> I think the unknowns and price hold folks back, but I'm totally sold, now I'm thinking about an FS version to replace my Lithium



When they come up with a way to run Pinion + FS with no snubber or tensioner, they will have my full attention.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I've been intrigued ever since I saw the Pinion specific frames from Ventana a couple years ago.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So I got this awesome Canfield Lithium sitting in the garage, the Pinion is in my car for an after work ride 

Things I'm diggin':
Belt drive, so smooth and quiet, no maintenance even when muddy
No derailleur, reminds me of riding mountain unis, just drop it on any ole side
The gear changing is just so cool and simple, I'm not really minding the grip shift that much
The Nicolai geometry is spot on for an aggressive hardtail!

Things I'd like to change:
Man, that hardtail is hard! I sprained my foot getting big air .. I forget I was missing rear suspension 
I tried a Cane Creek suspension seat post and it worked okay, but I missed the dropper part, so I just ordered a PNW Dropper/Suspension seat post, the drop is only 120mm, but the suspension is 40mm, so I'm hoping that'll take the sting out when I'm seated.

So Mike, is the tensioner on the FS Pinions that noticeable? I had a tensioner on a Druid and it was noticeable, but I was able to tolerate the resistance, but perhaps combined with a Pinion it's too much?

Edit: Did you see the PB article on the Effigear Anakin? It’s more of an enduro bike, no quite the range of a Pinion, but the gear box design is high pivot and concentric, pretty cool:



https://m.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-cavalerie-anakin-v2-a-gearbox-enduro-bike-made-in-france.html


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Yea, hardtails take a bit more effort to ride, at least for me. The lithium is a totally different ride in that regard. It's little things. But, this is why I really enjoy riding hardtails  I could totally see the mass at the bb being a good thing.

How fast is the shifting, with the grip shift?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

dysfunction said:


> Yea, hardtails take a bit more effort to ride, at least for me. The lithium is a totally different ride in that regard. It's little things. But, this is why I really enjoy riding hardtails  I could totally see the mass at the bb being a good thing.
> 
> How fast is the shifting, with the grip shift?


Shifting is immediate, but you have to reduce pedal pressure, not really coasting, more of a light spin, upshifting is better with tension whereas downshifting esp to the lowest gear really doesn't like pressure. You can dump as many gears in one twist as you like, it's so easy that I've had to slow my twist or I end up dumping two gears at a time.

My buddy is a single speed endurance rider and he bought a Pinion bike at the same time, and so far he really likes it, he got a Viral Skeptic.


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## Halfabrain (Jun 5, 2014)

mikesee said:


> When they come up with a way to run Pinion + FS with no snubber or tensioner, they will have my full attention.


Nice idea, but you may be waiting a long time...

I don't think its possible to design FS (gearbox or not) of any kind without a tensioner. The only suspension design that could come close is a pivot directly through the center of the bottom bracket and even then you would all kinds of problems with pedaling and compression. Thus the 'visual pivot point' on various bike designs. To my understanding, modern geometry pivots are meant to keep the rear axle going up/rearward vs clockwise towards the center so as not to shorten the wheelbase among other things.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Halfabrain said:


> Nice idea, but you may be waiting a long time...
> 
> I don't think its possible to design FS (gearbox or not) of any kind without a tensioner. The only suspension design that could come close is a pivot directly through the center of the bottom bracket and even then you would all kinds of problems with pedaling and compression. Thus the 'visual pivot point' on various bike designs. To my understanding, modern geometry pivots are meant to keep the rear axle going up/rearward vs clockwise towards the center so as not to shorten the wheelbase among other things.


See my edit above, there is a way, using an Effigear gearbox:



https://m.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-cavalerie-anakin-v2-a-gearbox-enduro-bike-made-in-france.html


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Nurse Ben said:


> So Mike, is the tensioner on the FS Pinions that noticeable? I had a tensioner on a Druid and it was noticeable, but I was able to tolerate the resistance, but perhaps combined with a Pinion it's too much?
> 
> Edit: Did you see the PB article on the Effigear Anakin? It’s more of an enduro bike, no quite the range of a Pinion, but the gear box design is high pivot and concentric, pretty cool:
> 
> ...



Changing the direction of the chain is always noticeable. Go from SS to gears and it's big. Go from a der to an added direction change at a tensioner and it is, to me, a non-starter.

This is purely from an efficiency standpoint -- not even touching on complexity of the bike.

The Pinion already suffers high enough frictional losses that I'm not sure I'd be OK with it, even on a HT with a belt. No way I'd be OK with it with an added tensioner.

I did see the Anakin. I haven't yet been able to demo an Effigear.


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## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> So Mike, is the tensioner on the FS Pinions that noticeable? I had a tensioner on a Druid and it was noticeable, but I was able to tolerate the resistance, but perhaps combined with a Pinion it's too much?


I'm not Mike, and my experience is with a Nicolai Helius AC Pinion that is chain drive not belt drive. The tensioner doesn't seem to add any more friction than a derailleur. It's a non issue from that angle. Because it is mounted at the bb I seem to catch more rock strikes on it than I do on a chainguide or rear derailleur.


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## Halfabrain (Jun 5, 2014)

Headed in the right direction with Effigear..... But again, missing essential details like an ISCG 05 mount for a bashguard!

Cavalerie Blackbird


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## faul (Jun 5, 2019)

The blackbird isn't available yet, but the newly released Anakin v2 will have a protection for the box.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The Blackbird uses the Mimic gearbox, essential Effigears version of the Pinion, so no real advantage over Pinion, but no track record, heavier, and fewer gears.

The Anakin uses the original Effigear with the output separated from the input, which allows for a high pivot and simulates a concentric drive which avoids a tensioner.

I honestly don’t notice the Pinion Drive being any more draggy than a derailleur, but adding a tensioner would definitely add drag; I had one on my Druid and it was really noticeable.


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## parkmeister (Feb 2, 2004)

The Effigear Mimic has really captured my attention. It's still fairly new and not widely available.
It uses the same frame mount plate as the Pinion, it's compatible with SRAM trigger shifters, and the gear spread 'mimics' a standard cassette.
Moar info hear: cyclingabout.com






Pics from Effigear's Insta:



















If I hit the lottery, I'd get a Zerode Taniwha or Nicolai Ion G16 with Effigear Mimic gearbox and Gates belt drive.


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## Halfabrain (Jun 5, 2014)

Zerode looks pretty good, but still very bad design choices that could be easily fixed: Cables routed coming out of the lower downtube??? (WTF!...just waiting there to get shredded) and no ISCG mounts for a bash guard? Come on Zerode... think it through just a little bit more...

This is the Katipo 29er... tough sell as an Enduro bike with all that precious hardware and cable routing exposed without any legit protection....


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Mimic vs Pinion: Higher engagement, less expensive, wider Q, same weight, smaller gear range, longer warranty, uses single throw shifters

I suppose I'd consider a Mimic, but Pinion is already a bit more established, so I'd probably wait a minute.

The Effigear original is the answer for a full suspension if you want to skip a tensioner.

I really like my Pinion, it's all Ive been riding for the past two weeks, the Nicolai Argon geo doesn't hurt


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## madstace (Jul 23, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> The Blackbird uses the Mimic gearbox, essential Effigears version of the Pinion, so no real advantage over Pinion, but no track record, heavier, and fewer gears.
> 
> The Anakin uses the original Effigear with the output separated from the input, which allows for a high pivot and simulates a concentric drive which avoids a tensioner.
> 
> I honestly don’t notice the Pinion Drive being any more draggy than a derailleur, but adding a tensioner would definitely add drag; I had one on my Druid and it was really noticeable.


Blackbird uses the original Effigear, not the Mimic. It was announced prior to the "release" of the Mimic, and it's clear in the photos the output shaft is not at the same location as the input.

Trigger shifter is a massive advantage in either form over the Pinion IMO.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

madstace said:


> Blackbird uses the original Effigear, not the Mimic. It was announced prior to the "release" of the Mimic, and it's clear in the photos the output shaft is not at the same location as the input.
> 
> Trigger shifter is a massive advantage in either form over the Pinion IMO.


Oh, you mean that Blackbird, yeah, I remember reading the review in 2019 on Pinkbike ... umm you realize that it's vaporware 

Cavalerie only shows the Anakin for sale, no mention of the Blackbird, even the PB link is dead.

I'm thinking hard about the Anakin, my only concern is how it'll pedal uphill ... I was not a big Druid fan, but perhaps the shorter chainstays will make it more spritely.

For sure I'll run a chain, belts have waaay to much drag.

Twist shift vs trigger, sure, like you I'm used to riding a trigger shifter, BUT, as an older guy with a long hstory of injuries, a trigger shifter is not good for my index finger, so I'd take the twist shift; also because you can drop gears faster.


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## ladljon (Nov 30, 2011)

Have three Rohloff bikes, this is my old FS... Rohloff chain tensioner is AWESOME! Fits on like a derailluer...


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## rich_thecorner (3 mo ago)

Sanchofula said:


> As a "getting older" mountain biker, I find that trigger shifting is making my hands and fingers hurt, likely aggravating some age related arthritis.
> 
> The twist shift is actually pretty easy to use and it doesn't bother my hands and fingers at all.
> 
> ...





Sanchofula said:


> I just got my first Pinion equipped bike, a Nicolai Argon hardtail, and it’s pretty amazing.
> 
> I’d only ever see one at a bike show, and there are few domestic frame builders using Pinion, so I reached out to Nicolai and scored an Argon on sale.
> 
> ...





Sanchofula said:


> I just got my first Pinion equipped bike, a Nicolai Argon hardtail, and it’s pretty amazing.
> 
> I’d only ever see one at a bike show, and there are few domestic frame builders using Pinion, so I reached out to Nicolai and scored an Argon on sale.
> 
> ...





Sanchofula said:


> I just got my first Pinion equipped bike, a Nicolai Argon hardtail, and it’s pretty amazing.
> 
> I’d only ever see one at a bike show, and there are few domestic frame builders using Pinion, so I reached out to Nicolai and scored an Argon on sale.
> 
> ...


I have sourced these parts in the UK (where I live) and built a demo. So impressed I now sell them!My Olsen-Pinion


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I’ve been riding a Zerode Taniwha Trail 27.5 140/160 Pinion for a few weeks, so far it’s been a great riding bike, very supple suspension, very well balanced, and extremely nimble.

No real complaints, though sizing is old school; ie a large is a large. They don’t make an XL in the Taniwha, so folks taller than ~74” will need the longer 29” Katipo.


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