# Braking Techniques; steep tech and cornering



## 211 (Aug 19, 2010)

I've been riding bikes a while now. Long enough to know that I should probably be better than I really am. 
One of my downfalls is my braking technique. I know I have developed poor habits and although I know exactly what I'm doing wrong and what I think I 'need' to do it's hard to apply that on the trail when things are coming up on me so fast.
Anyway, I have a few question and hope some of you with more skills can help to advise. 

When riding steep, fast, tech is it better to be on the front or back brake more? I find that if I'm more heavy on the front brake I wash out, back brake is fine but I feel I skid too much. 
Cornering, this is where I have horrible habits; obviously the rule is brake before the corner NOT in it, again, front or back or both equally? And when I'm approaching the corner, berm, etc do I want to be completely off the brakes before I initiate the turn or is it okay to be braking up-to and in-to the first part of the corner?


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

What I learned at the BetterRide DH camp:

Steep, fast, techy stuff: Brake front and rear before and use your rear only to manage your speed, but don't lock up. Try this.... Stand next to your bike and put your finger on the back of your seat. Start pushing your bike while slowly pulling in on your rear brake. Notice when you lock up on the rear, it acutally slides easier. Locking up your brakes is bad news. It just turns your tires into plows instead of rolling over and grabbing the terrain to slow down. Gotta learn to apply as much brake without locking up.

With corners, brake before to check your speed and let off as you go through and are looking through the exit. If you still have too much speed, you can brake check your rear, but stay off the front. Use your front brake when going straight, not in corners. Also get low on the bike when braking hard. 

Go to a parking lot, start at a specific point. Get a little speed going and brake hard with only your front, without locking up and get low. Go back and do the same with only the rear and notice how much more distance it takes to stop with just the rear. Hope this all helps.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

^^That's pretty good.

One thing that took me a while was really loose rocky babyhead stuff, the looser the terrain the more you need to move your weight back and the less you can use the front brake. 

For cornering, I'd add to brake late and hard, then let go of the brakes as you turn in and let the bike rail while looking toward the exit. To really let the bike rail you'll need to experiment with how much to lean your body into the turn, so pick a soft corner to practice on... in tight corners you need to really lean over and let the bike catch you as it rails around the corner, it might feel like youre going to fall over, but the centripedal acceleration of the bike cornering will catch you. But looking to the exit is key, if you don't do that nothing else matters, and if you do, the right technique will come a lot more naturally.


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## nikojan (Jun 18, 2011)

ajdemo76 said:


> What I learned at the BetterRide DH camp:
> 
> Steep, fast, techy stuff: Brake front and rear before and use your rear only to manage your speed, but don't lock up. Try this.... Stand next to your bike and put your finger on the back of your seat. Start pushing your bike while slowly pulling in on your rear brake. Notice when you lock up on the rear, it acutally slides easier. Locking up your brakes is bad news. It just turns your tires into plows instead of rolling over and grabbing the terrain to slow down. Gotta learn to apply as much brake without locking up.
> 
> ...


+1 :thumbsup:


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## tuumbaq (Oct 6, 2005)

ajdemo76 said:


> What I learned at the BetterRide DH camp:
> 
> Steep, fast, techy stuff: Brake front and rear before and use your rear only to manage your speed, but don't lock up. Try this.... Stand next to your bike and put your finger on the back of your seat. Start pushing your bike while slowly pulling in on your rear brake. Notice when you lock up on the rear, it acutally slides easier. Locking up your brakes is bad news. It just turns your tires into plows instead of rolling over and grabbing the terrain to slow down. Gotta learn to apply as much brake without locking up.


Well I'll be the first to disagree with that...This is actually a technique you'd give to a beginner...Altought there is some good to this, locking the back wheel and skid CAN BE a good thing if you know how and when to use it to your advantage...sometime the terrain or the speed your are moving just doesnt allow you to pull a *cuttie* and thats when the back brake comes handy and helps you putting the bike where you want it to be.

Again , there is some good sense to what the BetterRide DH camp coach had to say but it isnt the ultimate truth you should always go by...Using the front brake on steep terrain also makes the fork dive, leaving you with less travel up front and a much steeper HA...

Anyway, there is SOOOOO much to talk about when comes to cornering but saying the back break is only good to manage your speed isnt going to help you improving your skills...Sounds more to me like you want to go FASTER and for that , you'll need to learn how to MOVE and SLIDE the bike around more than how to slow it down.

I wish I could tell you 70% front brake and 30% rear but it isnt always how you should use them...On flat turns, sure the front brake generally helps more with steering... especially on choppy trail and the back can help slowing you down and both before the turn obviously !!!

Lots to talk about... to me cornering has a lot more to do with body position than actual braking...Stay loose, heels low, elbows out , lean the bike down as you stay upward ( avoid leaning down with it !!!! ) look out the exit of the turn and learn when and how you should move your feet...as a general rule of thumb you'd want to have your outside foot down to gain traction ( loading the outside of the tire to help you counteract the g-forces) but then again if you want to drift or pull a cuttie, it would be the other way around as you want to "unload" the tire and push it out with your inside foot... wether or not you are comfortable dritfing is irrelevant at this point, make sure to learn it right the first time.

Just try to remember to stay loose and have a good body position...Otherwise if you think too much about what you should be doing with your bike and you'll find yourself slowing down as you wont be a 100% focus on what you really should be doing...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

tuumbaq said:


> Well I'll be the first to disagree with that...This is actually a technique you'd give to a beginner...Altought there is some good to this, locking the back wheel and skid CAN BE a good thing if you know how and when to use it to your advantage...sometime the terrain or the speed your are moving just doesnt allow you to pull a *cuttie* and thats when the back brake comes handy and helps you putting the bike where you want it to be.
> 
> Again , there is some good sense to what the BetterRide DH camp coach had to say but it isnt the ultimate truth you should always go by...Using the front brake on steep terrain also makes the fork dive, leaving you with less travel up front and a much steeper HA...
> 
> ...


always exceptions to the rules but the main focus is what is taught at betterRide...those are true most of the time...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

ajdemo76 said:


> What I learned at the BetterRide DH camp:
> 
> Steep, fast, techy stuff: Brake front and rear before and use your rear only to manage your speed, but don't lock up. Try this.... Stand next to your bike and put your finger on the back of your seat. Start pushing your bike while slowly pulling in on your rear brake. Notice when you lock up on the rear, it acutally slides easier. Locking up your brakes is bad news. It just turns your tires into plows instead of rolling over and grabbing the terrain to slow down. Gotta learn to apply as much brake without locking up.
> 
> ...


These are very helpful techniques....I would like to add this

TAKE YOUR BACK BRAKE OFF AND RIDE TRAILS...easy ones at first and then the harder ones...
this will scare you but teach you:
1)body positioning....you will have to be in the "attack position" or you will go over bars
2)brake turning....you will learn to brake before turn and let go through turn or you will wash out
3) you will learn to manipulate your brakes better and more efficient

overall you will become a better rider doing this


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## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

211 said:


> When riding steep, fast, tech is it better to be on the front or back brake more? I find that if I'm more heavy on the front brake I wash out, back brake is fine but I feel I skid too much.
> Cornering, this is where I have horrible habits; obviously the rule is brake before the corner NOT in it, again, front or back or both equally? And when I'm approaching the corner, berm, etc do I want to be completely off the brakes before I initiate the turn or is it okay to be braking up-to and in-to the first part of the corner?


In the steeps, I find I use both brakes pretty equally. What you have to do is plan ahead. Visualize the trail. Think about what is coming up and what is the most speed you can carry and only brake that much. Know where you can and can not brake. I look for the smoother sections to get on the front hard (but still using both brakes) to slow down, and use the rear to slow down acceleration (not to actually slow down the bike, only to speed up less) in the rough. It's best if you can plan your run so you don't get into a steep rough section too hot and need to drag your brakes or even slow down a lot, because you also need your front suspension to keep traction and yourself from getting bounced off (read: you don't want brake dive). Hope that makes a little sense... 

You're mixing up braking and cornering. Braking is for slowing the bike down and cornering is to change your direction. Don't let the two mix. The same techniques you've heard for general braking apply to braking before a corner. When you start turning, no brakes - have your slowing down done before you turn (remember the traction rule you've heard a dozen times). Look through the turn, lean the bike in, keep your body upright, turn your body in the direction you want to go, and keep your weight on the outside grip (if you're turning left, put your weight on the right grip). Putting your weight on the outside helps your side knobs hook up and keeps you from sliding out - if you put too much weight on the inside grip, you will probably lose it. Sometimes I'll put a little weight on the inside to get a touch of front drift, but for the most part it's a bad idea. If you hit your brakes, the bike will stand up and be a lot harder to turn. Personally, I try to keep my pedals level because I find I turn better that way and it allows me to take a quick pedal stroke on the exit if necessary.

Disclaimer: I'm not a pro and there are a lot of people on here who are faster than me and whose advice is probably better. Just throwing out what's been working for me :thumbsup:


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> always exceptions to the rules but the main focus is what is taught at betterRide...those are true most of the time...


What they've taught is working for me for sure. Yes, they also go over body position (above poster pretty much explains it). Getting your hips over the BB in cornering DOES allow you to control a drifting rear where you'd probably slide out if you're leaning into it. Speaking more of flat corners by the way. They go over a ton of stuff that all ties together. Mainly vision, body position, cornering and braking.


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## 211 (Aug 19, 2010)

Great advice guys! Thanks a ton for the prompt replies. 
After reading everyones suggestions I'm realizing this is stuff I already know (or have read in other places); what's frustrating is breaking these bad habbits while on my bike, on the trails and moving at a high rate of speed. Time to dial it back a bit I guess, take things slow and work on technique. 
That camp sounds pretty cool. I should look into that if they ever come up my way. 

I have this image as my phone wallpaper. I study it alot; the perfect form...


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

I will say this. After leaving the camp, I would go out to the trails and try these techniques that were new to me, riding at normal speed, same difficulty of trails. I wasn't catching on so I'm slowing things down alot, riding easier trails, doing alot of figure 8 drills, working on vision on my XC rides while I'm climbing and going slower anyways. Slowing things down has helped me out tons. 
Yea man, check out that camp. It's a long 3 days and they throw a ton of info at you. It's worth it.


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## carspidey (Aug 1, 2011)

i am in the same boat... i just started dh riding and i kinda have an idea of what to do the problem is that i don't do it  

thanks to the OP for asking this question...


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> These are very helpful techniques....I would like to add this
> 
> TAKE YOUR BACK BRAKE OFF AND RIDE TRAILS...easy ones at first and then the harder ones...
> this will scare you but teach you:
> ...


Jeezus I'm going to have to try this now :madman: If I wash out over a cliff I'm going to haunt you SMT.
It really does sound like a great idea.


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## Trailzking (Jun 29, 2011)

You could also try going chainless. When you have no power to propel after a turn you tend to try and ride through the gnar cleaner to keep on coasting. I found I refined my brake technique this way...

I like to think as my bike as a 'dirt ski'. It is similar the way you load the tip of the ski to initiate turn and then center and then tail of the ski to rocket out turn. 

Start turn on bike with a 70 front/30 back combo to set the weight forward and dig in traction etc. As you come through the turn, transition braking to 30 front/70 rear to 0/0 for the POP off the rear travel.


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## PerfectZero (Jul 22, 2010)

Trailzking said:


> I like to think as my bike as a 'dirt ski'. It is similar the way you load the tip of the ski to initiate turn and then center and then tail of the ski to rocket out turn.
> 
> Start turn on bike with a 70 front/30 back combo to set the weight forward and dig in traction etc. As you come through the turn, transition braking to 30 front/70 rear to 0/0 for the POP off the rear travel.


this is pretty interesting. I ski a lot and always felt the same types of balance on my bike, but I never thought of it that literally.


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## fryed_1 (Nov 8, 2010)

I gotta say thanks for this thread. We have some homemade motorcross tracks in the woods behind the house with some decent, but short, bermed downhill slopes and I've been working on keeping my body above the bike instead of rolling with it and I've really gone in to and come out of the turns much faster in the last few days. My helmet cam has been help too as I typically keep my head level with my shoulders. If I look back at the video and it's still way crooked, then I know I still need to work on getting over the bike better.


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

Another thing that would be helpful, and I've been meaning to do this myself, is to find a berm and film yourself cornering. Not so you can look back and say "oh look at how badass I am!" but to watch your technique and make corrections accordingly. If you've got an editing program, you could slow down that footage and really see what you're doing. Good idea for those of us that ride alone most of the time.


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## FlippinSweet (Jul 24, 2006)

PerfectZero said:


> this is pretty interesting. I ski a lot and always felt the same types of balance on my bike, but I never thought of it that literally.


...problem is, I dont ski- I snowboard, which is more hip/shoulder initiation of the turn.


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

I learned MTB'ing from square one, mostly without influence from the outside as we're kind of isolated. I now ride pro DH in my country.

Advice I can give is never do anything that seems unnatural. Go ahead and push your limits, but push them gently. When it comes to cornering it's about commitment. Trusting your bike. Try it a little faster and lean a little harder when you're having a good day on a bike. Doing this constantly won't give a magical boost in skills but in a few months you'll find yourself much faster. This is the slow and steady way though. I've been riding for 9 years, 2 years real DH. Some of my friends are almost at my level after just a year or two of riding and going balls out, but miss a lot of fundamentals.

As for braking, what's said above generally holds true. When you want to slow down, you use your front brake. But if you're starting to get to an increasingly fast level, braking to slow down won't be the hard part. I can honestly say that in DH I use my rear brake much more often but not as intensely as the front. 

Front braking for me only has one use, fast section before a corner, straighten the bike, get low, stiffen arms and clamp down on that sucker as hard as you can.

Rear brake use can get complicated though. You can use it to straighten the bike if the front isn't gripping a corner as hard as you would anticipate. Or you can use it to stand the bike up from a hard drift/lean. Rear brakes are also very handy on tight courses where I personally love jack knifing corners a lot. Technique is very useful on tight courses when you're using long cumbersome DH bikes. All of these require just millisecond inputs into the rear brake hence using it much more often.

If you are in a situation where in you are very desperate to slow down, I personally think that you can get the most braking power out of your rear by swinging it back and fourth like a fish while modulating accordingly to avoid lock up but maintain the most traction possible, all the while with 100% power on the front though.

Long rambling late night post, but I hope I helped!


Edit:

One of the richest learning experiences I had on cornering was a race course that had a lot of slalom-ski type wide off camber corners on loose but grippy soil. It was awesome fun find the bikes drift point in these as you didn't need to go as fast as in a flat corner to initiate drift and it wasn't as scary or dangerous to get sliding and sideways as you weren't going all that fast.
I recommend searching for corners like these as many people don't really know how much grip their tires have and never use their side knobs to their full potential. Lay that sucker down and see where the bike really washes out! And when you're experimenting with this wear pads, lots of pads.


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## KTMDirtFace (Aug 7, 2008)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> These are very helpful techniques....I would like to add this
> 
> TAKE YOUR BACK BRAKE OFF AND RIDE TRAILS...easy ones at first and then the harder ones...
> this will scare you but teach you:
> ...


Good idea, my rear brake went out on me all the time I got sick of re-bleeding it so said Eff it and just kept riding it with only the front.


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## StreamRider (Jun 18, 2010)

Bounce. Great information here.


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## JUCD VPR (Feb 27, 2014)

Good info in here. I was actually wondering the same thing about how much other guys use their front vs. rear brakes. Seems I am doing it somewhat right, but I plan to take some of the cornering tips and apply them to my riding. Great thread OP.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> These are very helpful techniques....I would like to add this
> 
> TAKE YOUR BACK BRAKE OFF AND RIDE TRAILS...easy ones at first and then the harder ones...
> this will scare you but teach you:
> ...


can't stress this enough...believe me the learning curve goes up fast when you use this technique and then switch back to rear brake....remember front is for stopping, rear brake is for turning


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## pigdog (Feb 7, 2011)

This Fabien Barel vid on cornering / body position will be a big help if you're not already doing this. It works as advertised and is applicable to all cornering disciplines - berms, flat, whatever

Cornering with Fabien Barel - YouTube


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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

Taking brakes and chains off to learn basic techniques!? Ya'll trippin'


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Iggz said:


> Taking brakes and chains off to learn basic techniques!? Ya'll trippin'


it is true and works


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> can't stress this enough...believe me the learning curve goes up fast when you use this technique and then switch back to rear brake....remember front is for stopping, rear brake is for turning


I'm an amateur mtn biker but have been trail running for several years. My LBS advised me to use the front brake even though another biker told me he flipped over the bike before. They said the front rotor is twice as thick as rear. They also said that I was previously riding the brakes downhill (which was true) and now I slam and quickly release front and back brakes simultaneously (which they said it's ok to slam and release). I think they also said to brake prior to corners.

I didn't know that the rear brake is for turning. I was experimenting with front only vs. rear only vs. both and sometimes the back tire slips to one side. Anybody know when/why this happens? I thought it was happening when I only used rear brake but don't remember clearly.


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

btw, how long will the brake pads last (I have a Diamondback Overdrive Comp and weigh 185) if you ride max 20 miles/week?

I know there are a lot of variables here and depends which (front or back) you're asking about, but is it at least 3 months on average?


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## mojoronnie (Feb 26, 2012)

Rear brake is worthless in the steeps, so removing it doesn't really teach you anything. If you're hitting corners properly, you shouldn't be braking at all... but I'll use the rear to change the bikes attitude if need be. I ride a mtn bike just as I ride motocross.. not much rear brake.


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> remember front is for stopping, rear brake is for turning


from what I've experienced with my DB OD Comp 29er in the past 3 months (over 200 miles in SoCal fire roads with all dry terrain) is that if you apply the rear brake firmly on a downhill with decent speed, the rear will move out from center and you can crash as a result. Is this not the general case?

So I was told by LBS to brake prior to corner. Which is what I try to do and not ride the brakes all the way downhill. Brake/release quickly as needed prior to corners.


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