# Aiming for a Sub-20Lb DJ bike - Sujestions & Opinions



## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

Okay then, I am starting my new build here.

Im aiming for Sub 20LB!

I am open to sujestions here so please dont come here just to flame and hate.

Here is what i have on the list at the mo


Charge Iron Titanium edition

Echo SL front and rear hubs (i currently have Hope ti hubs but there heavier than the alu's)

 NS Trialmaster rims

Spokes (undecided but thinking Ti spokes)

XACD Ti cranks & spider

XACD Ti handle bars (22.2mm)

Tr!xter hydro gyro(also replaces head spacers)

The Hook BMX stem (2 bolt version)

Ti/carbon Bottom bracket

Welgo MG-1 Pedals with Ti shaft

Ecalt Plastic seat/Seatpost combo

Echo SL headset

Marzocchi Marathon S 80mm Forks

Thats about all for now but please give opinions and thought's on this.

Craig


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## Formerbmx37 (Apr 7, 2007)

sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
but if you have the money to do it why not. id pass on the marathon and get something like a revelation or a pike. might be worth checking out x-fusion
.


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

Sounds cool, and fun to play around on. I could never do the riding I like to do on it though!


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

I think a well built, sturdy bike is better than trying to go sub-20lbs. The only opnion I have is about that hook stem. FWIW, I cracked mine riding FLATLAND on my 20" - I couldn't even think of the issues that would come about if you're hucking this bike. They are weak. Mine cracked from falling forward doing rolling ground tricks at low speed.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

craigrobbo said:


> Thats about all for now but please give opinions and thought's on this.


i _sujest_ you make sure you have really good medical insurance.

but if you really wanted to be as light as possible, you should ditch the hydro gyro and just coil your line around the head tube, and run a rigid fork like a Dobermann Tchokr.


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

How come you are trying to accomplish such a thing? Have you rode a sub 20 BMX?


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

My 21 pound racing bmx scares me sometimes..


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> i _sujest_ you make sure you have really good medical insurance.
> 
> but if you really wanted to be as light as possible, you should ditch the hydro gyro and just coil your line around the head tube, and run a rigid fork like a Dobermann Tchokr.


I dont have private medical insurance, no real need for it.

Craig


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

ronnyg801 said:


> How come you are trying to accomplish such a thing? Have you rode a sub 20 BMX?


Its just a project to build a strong Dj bike with front suspension and retails its funtinality for as little weight as possible

Craig


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

ScaryJerry said:


> My 21 pound racing bmx scares me sometimes..


Thats kinda where I was leading, Im just not sure I see the purpose in a DJ bike, any sort of racing maybe but a 25 lb bike it plenty flickable.

Dont get me wrong I am all for people doing new neat things that people havent done, I like doing it as well. Just wanted to make sure you werent of some idea that there was going to be some sort of giant benefit besides personal satisfaction, to be different, and the ooooohs and aaaahhhs you'll get.

Keep us posted with pics on the build:thumbsup:


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## Formerbmx37 (Apr 7, 2007)

the XACD parts dont look reliable id lood in other places


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

You better have one hell of a good paying job and/or a wife that doesn't care how you spend your money. I doubt you can hit any decent jumps without something failing. You can't realistically go that light and still have a bike that will tolerate the rigors of DJing. Looks like a good build, nonetheless...


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

craigrobbo said:


> I dont have private medical insurance, no real need for it.
> 
> Craig


so you have no medical insurance at all?

if so, that's just stupid. almost as stupid as jumping a sub-20lb bike whose parts obviously sacrificed strength for weight.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Nah. Just build it. Drop $4,500 on a DJ bike that will cost you $100,000 in medical bills when it explodes.

Also Titanium everything is not the answer. The build you described will ride like wet noodles underneath you.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

craigrobbo said:


> I dont have private medical insurance, no real need for it.
> 
> Craig


Your parents didn't warn you about making a fool of yourself in public? I would not be spending excessive money on anything bike without insurance and some retirement planning happening.

I didn't think about my need for insurance moments before a drunk parolee decided to run me off the road and then beat me up for good measure. That cleanup and healing cost my insurance company a few bikes, and I wasn't thinking much about my insurance before I was told a lump was malignant and spreading through its neighborhood.

Sorry, but it seems very foolish to be buying expensive sports toys and not taking care of one's future because it (future) can happen.

Back to topic: My Transition Bank is 25 - 26 pounds and I don't know how or why anybody would want it lighter. Also why one would choose a racer fork like the Marathon when 831 is so light and stuff.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> so you have no medical insurance at all?
> 
> if so, that's just stupid. almost as stupid as jumping a sub-20lb bike whose parts obviously sacrificed strength for weight.


Okay well if im stupid then thats your opinion.

Why pay for private medical care? i never understood, okay so you get slightly nicer doctors (because there taking all that money from you) and the food is proberbly slightly better, but in all fairness is all that really worth paying like £50 a month for??

No chance ill stick to my good ol' general hospitals thank you...not to mention i dont know any private hospitals int he UK with an A&E so what the hell is the point??

Im sorry but your comment just does not seem valid not even a little bit.

I have had private health care once before and in all honest it was no better than the general hospital.

Craig


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

Ideally i was looking for some posotive input on hw to reach my gal rather than people flamming hating and trying to put me off for what ever reason.

i dont think this will be a weak bike, iv yet to see anyone break a charge iron Ti!

Im open too sujestions so if you think that a part iv listed isnt sutible then sujest somthing better rather than just flamming for what i have peiced together!!

Why all the hate? im just trying somthing a little different and i intent to reach my goal.

Jut because you may see no point, desnt mean i dnt, i would sooner appreciate constructive input rather than just a load of hate!

Craig


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

how can anybody take you seriously when you can't even spell worth a sh!t?

positive*
how*
goal*
flaming*
whatever*
i've*
to*
suggestions*
suitable*
suggest*
something*
pieced*
intend*
doesn't*
don't*


that's gotta be an all-time record!


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> how can anybody take you seriously when you can't spell worth a sh!t?
> 
> positive*
> goal*
> ...


I think you have just proved my point about hating rather than being cnstructive.

Gave up n dissing my bike so decided to take a pop at me instead...well done i award you the 'arse hole' medal of the year.

Craig


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

Clearly no ne hear wants this to work, they have doomed it to fail before it started.

You all hate the idea, the project even the cncept so i wont even bother posting any more on this project any more...maybe it will keep you lot a bit happier.


Out


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

in 120 words, you misspelled 17 of them. that means you misspelled 14% of the words, or 1 in every 7. you suck.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> in 120 words, you misspelled 17 of them. that means you misspelled 14% of the words, or 1 in every 7. you suck.


Reguardless...my point still stands.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

craigrobbo said:


> well done i award you the 'arse hole' medal of the year.


i'm surprised you would relinquish the title to me.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

craigrobbo said:


> Reguardless...my point still stands.


regardless*


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> i'm surprised you'd relinquish the title to me.


Again, the above point still stands.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> regardless*


The above statement STILL stands.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

btw, please correct the info in your profile. there's no way you started riding in 1990. you weren't even born yet.


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## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

Mate the only thing i will say is that this bike will ride like crap for two reasons

Ti is has more "spring" to it than steel and aluminium, hence many parts of that bike are gonna feel like their walking all over the place, case in point, the wheels due to ti spokes.

Unless you have sniper like precision and machine like control, I would be willing to bet a large amount that this bike is gonna jump like absolute crap, because it has very little weight, hence very little stability in the air, your gonna look twitchy as hell.

You are talking about using an XC fork for DJ, and yet you think this build is strong, its not, may things can and WILL go wrong with it because not many of these parts will handle DJ well. Of course the frame anit gonna break, because its designed for this stuff, while some of the parts arnt.

5lb for the sake of strength isnt gonna make the bike unrideable, either loose the weight off yourself or hit the gym

On the other hand, should you go through with it, make sure you take pics of the bike when its freshly built, then more pics when parts start breaking


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> btw, please correct the info in your profile. there's no way you started riding in 1990. you weren't even born yet.


This is funny.

I was born in '86 I had a bike when i was 4 years old.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

craigrobbo said:


> You all hate the idea, the project even the cncept *so i wont even bother posting any more on this project any more*...maybe it will keep you lot a bit happier.
> 
> Out


and then...


craigrobbo said:


> Reguardless...my point still stands.





craigrobbo said:


> Again, the above point still stands.





craigrobbo said:


> The above statement STILL stands.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

craigrobbo said:


> This is funny.
> 
> I was born in '86 I had a bike when i was 4 years old.


BS. there's no way a 24-year-old could be as stupid as you.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> and then...


Non of them statements was to do with the project...

You tool.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> BS. there's no way a 24-year-old could be as stupid as you.


Is that what you know or what you think?


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## trailville (Jul 24, 2006)

Well, constructive criticism would be that it just isn't practical to try to make a sub 20lb DJ bike. Unless you weigh in at under 100lb and ride really smooth, it's just not going to be burly enough for DJ and it's going to be crazy expensive. If you want to spend a bunch of money to build something like that just so you can post pics and specs online, then great, do it. But if you really intend to ride it, you may want to shoot for something more reasonable like sub 25lbs for a light DJ bike. Even then, you better ride smooth because that's pretty light for DJ.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

alexrex20 said:


> BS. there's no way a 24-year-old could be as stupid as you.


Buddy, this is America. I wouldn't take that with a grain of salt. :lol:


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Until Scott comes out with a Spark-like carbon fiber DJ bike, this idea you have is blatently STUPID.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

hardtailkid said:


> Buddy, this is America. I wouldn't take that with a grain of salt. :lol:


The guy is a compleate tool and because he is a hater for my project he decided he would be a hater on the builder to.

In all fairness i think its quite funny how he is doing what he is...petty and its great to wind people like this up (then 9/10 they reply saying 'your not winding me up') clearly it is.

I havent got much care for people like him, i just reply for fun.

Craig


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Just curious, what is your budget for a DJ build (don't lie)


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

hardtailkid said:


> Just curious, what is your budget for a DJ build (don't lie)


Not to sound like an arse hole but i have no reason to lie.

Well originally budjeted to £2000 however i ended up pricing my build to 2500(in the ball park) but really i dont want to spend more than this. £2500 is really my TOP budjet.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

This thread has EPIC written all over it. Staying tuned fosho.

Here is constructive criticism:

The parts you selected are weak, not designed to take rigorous abuse and will eventually fail. If you are 90 lbs and ride perfectly smooth, you may survive. May....

That said my Tonic is about 26 lbs and every single part on it is designed for abuse. I would much rather have a light flickable yet solid machine than a flexy light ride.

Back in my XC racing days I had a Merlin Ti frame with tons of Ti parts. It rode awesome but it was only applicable to XC racing. I would't even think about jumping a bike like that. Let alone building one for DJ specifically. But hey it's your call...


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

Demo-9 said:


> This thread has EPIC written all over it. Staying tuned fosho.
> 
> Here is constructive criticism:
> 
> ...


The cranks and handle bars i wouldnt mind some other sujestins n which are light and strong.

The fork i chose for this reason.

I currently run an '00 Marzocchi Z1 CR, really an XC fork and i have abused the HELL out of it wih drops, falls, jumps, street sk8 parks for the last 12 months and it is still as smooth as the day i bought it.

AWSOME FORK.

My asumption was that the marathon being the Z1's lighter, mre expensive air sprung brother would perfrm similar in terms of strength, it does get excellent reveiws for durablity.

Craig


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Don't spend that money on building a DJ bike that isn't practical. Build the best, bombproof bike you can afford. Ti spokes don't just scream bombproof. Make everyone on here jealous, as opposed to making them pity you because you built a DJ style road bike.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

craigrobbo said:


> The guy is a compleate tool and because he is a hater for my project he decided he would be a hater on the builder to.
> 
> In all fairness i think its quite funny how he is doing what he is...petty and its great to wind people like this up (then 9/10 they reply saying 'your not winding me up') clearly it is.
> 
> ...


i had to read this post three times to even begin to comprehend what the hell you're talking about. all i got was that you're a crybaby that tries to hide the fact that i hurt your feelings, by saying you're only obliging my petty attempts to insult the build and the builder.

well, Insecurity, allow me to introduce you to craigrobbo. he has a £2500 budget but not a bit of sense to know what it takes to build a reliable, practical DJ bike. sounds more like some kid living in fantasy land building a fantasy bike so he can brag about it on MTBR.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> i had to read this post three times to even begin to comprehend what the hell you're talking about. all i got was that you're a crybaby that tries to hide the fact that i hurt your feelings, by saying you're only obliging my petty attempts to insult the build and the builder.
> 
> well, Insecurity, allow me to introduce you to craigrobbo. he has a £2500 budget but not a bit of sense to know what it takes to build a reliable, practical DJ bike. sounds more like some kid living in fantasy land building a fantasy bike so he can brag about it on MTBR.


Must sound like it.

Iv already got a nice Dj bike (to me) as it stands, i just am building anther as a project.

Everyone says it wnt work, but no one has ever done this so how would anyone know?

ITS A PROJECT, stop shitting on my ideas jus because you think itll be crap.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

craigrobbo said:


> The cranks and handle bars i wouldnt mind some other sujestins n which are light and strong.


save your weight in the wheels, not the cranks.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

craigrobbo said:


> Everyone says it wnt work, but no one has ever done this so how would anyone know?


we don't have to build a car with an engine on the roof to know that it would have poor handling.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

Ok.

Well im going to go ahead with the build any ways, and if i end up changing parts thats fair enough. I would sooner imput on parts arund to reach my goal of 20lb or lower while retaining stength.

Forks and frame are already bought so i cannot change them.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Thats just stupid. I hope you buy some Lycra, because the only riding you do with that thing will be on the road.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

hardtailkid said:


> Thats just stupid. I hope you buy some Lycra, because the only riding you do with that thing will be on the road.


The frame is tried and tested.

The rest of the parts i can play with.

I may opt for DB steel spokes over Ti.

I also have some other bars in mind which i may consider.

Sujestions (other than not doing it) are welcome for other parts.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

*Suggestions for "parts"...*



craigrobbo said:


> The frame is tried and tested.
> 
> The rest of the parts i can play with.
> 
> ...


Suggestions is spelled with two G's.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Ti is heavier than aluminum. 

The frame is fine, but that really is a poor parts selection.

Gyro is heavier than a little extra hose.

You already heard another user's experience with that stem.

The fork is noodly.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Save weight where it won't hurt the structural integrity of the bike.....Saddle, brakes, crankset, tires, and seatpost. Aim for under 30lbs and you will have a strong as frick, kinda light DJ bike.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

you should have a local fab shop make you some crank arms out of polycarbonate. i heard it's pretty light.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

whats your purpose/goal behind sub 20lbs? 
I understand in an XC racebike, roadbike, cx bike going light (to an extent)...but i dont see the benefit here. 
are you building it just to see if you can (you can, it wouldnt be hard)? 
or because you are having issues handling your current bikes weight? 
because you have a lot of money to burn (thats like $3500-4000 US, which can buy you some quite amazing bikes, of which you aren't building one)?

your motivation may help keep the flaming down (and a bit of spell check or something, its painful navigating some of your sentences, and that can be frustrating)


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

he needs to spend his money on something like this:

http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-english
http://www.dummies.com/store/product/Teaching-Kids-to-Spell-For-Dummies.productCd-0764576240.html


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

craigrobbo said:


> This is funny.
> 
> I was born in '86 I had a bike when i was 4 years old.


I was doing 360's off picnic tables when you were 4! :lol: Man I'm old.

Anyhow - it's your money... do what you need to do. I think the consensus stands that it's a bad idea. Posting a bad idea and expecting everybody to give you a pat on the back, is well... not well thought out. You asked for the board's opinions and suggestions - what did you expect, everybody to jerk off your ego? It's a bad idea, bro... plain and simple.

Go build your bike and knock yourself out (figuratively, although you probably will literally, too). But in a courteous opinion, I think building a well-spec'd bike and quality in mind instead of saving weight is a much better idea and will probably save you a few dollars as well. Ti is expensive.

I have a 19.88lb. Ti SS XC bike, and I have to baby it. Even jumping it off a curb on my way to the trails is sketchy.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

clewttu said:


> whats your purpose/goal behind sub 20lbs?
> I understand in an XC racebike, roadbike, cx bike going light (to an extent)...but i dont see the benefit here.
> are you building it just to see if you can (you can, it wouldnt be hard)?
> or because you are having issues handling your current bikes weight?
> ...


Well the whole idea is a project really, a project to make it tough and light.

I know alot of people are knocking the parts i want to put on the bike but not to sound arsey im about 90% sure that most people havent tried the parts i am going to, more so in this combination.

Now i do want to achive a sub20 (as a project) and kep some good stength.

When i said sujestions and opinions, i should clarify that what i ment was sujestions and opinions on parts that may be better/stronger/lighter to help me reach my goal, not sujestions to put me ff / flame me.

Hope this helps people understand my wanting to do this.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Ti is heavier than aluminum.
> 
> The frame is fine, but that really is a poor parts selection.
> 
> ...


Unfortunatly the fork is bought.

The gyro is the only place im willing to sacrifice weight for functionality

The stem i intend to change based upon his experiance.

Im all ears on sujestions for crankset's, spokes, handle bars etc.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Suggestions


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

craigrobbo said:


> When i said sujestions and opinions, i should clarify that what i ment was sujestions and opinions on parts that may be better/stronger/lighter to help me reach my goal, not sujestions to put me ff / flame me.


Well, don't get that hook stem. Like I said, I broke one riding flatland BMX. Get a Thompson.

Personally, with all the money you intend to spend on this, I'd get myself a regular 'ol urban bike and put the rest into my retirement fund. But, that's my old age.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

craigrobbo said:


> Well the whole idea is a project really, a project to make it tough and light.
> 
> I know alot of people are knocking the parts i want to put on the bike but not to sound arsey im about 90% sure that most people havent tried the parts i am going to, more so in this combination.
> 
> ...


still not really understanding why you want to do this... seems you are just trying to build a light bike for the sake of building a light bike...if thats it then fine, but you deserved to be flamed for that cuz this isnt the weight weenie forum, you'd be better served there

the suggestions and opinions on parts that may be better/stronger/lighter are being given as parts that are stronger and better, thus heavier...cant really get all three at the same time most of the time

thats way too much money to blow on a SS DJ'er with crap parts


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

clewttu said:


> still not really understanding why you want to do this... seems you are just trying to build a light bike for the sake of building a light bike...if thats it then fine, but you deserved to be flamed for that cuz this isnt the weight weenie forum, you'd be better served there
> 
> the *sujestions *and opinions on parts that may be better/stronger/lighter are being given as parts that are stronger and better, thus heavier...cant really get all three at the same time most of the time


corrected


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

If you want to build a light bike, build a bike that would perform at it's best that way. If you want to build a DJ bike, build a DJ bike so it performs at its best. There is a reason you don't see super light DJ bikes, and super light DJ parts. Build a Transition Bottlerocket if you want the best of both worlds.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

I'm going to just go out on a limb here and assume that you know that the Ti bar and crank you selected are Chinese Titanium........as if it couldn't be more unsafe...


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

hardtailkid said:


> Save weight where it won't hurt the structural integrity of the bike.....Saddle, brakes, crankset, tires, and seatpost. Aim for under 30lbs and you will have a strong as frick, kinda light DJ bike.


Light tires can bulge, blow off rims, gash, etc.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

hardtailkid said:


> If you want to build a light bike, build a bike that would perform at it's best that way. If you want to build a DJ bike, build a DJ bike so it performs at its best. There is a reason you don't see super light DJ bikes, and super light DJ parts. Build a Transition Bottlerocket if you want the best of both worlds.


??? Best of what worlds? The Bottlerocket is heavy and not ideal for dirt jumping.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

his make-believe budget ought to cover one of these


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

from the "dirt jump for dirt cheap" thread:



craigrobbo said:


> The only part i broke was some raceface Extreme cranks, however it way my own fault as *i drilled them out taking away almost, 50% of the material* - but they did last me almost 8month of DJ!!
> 
> Craig


i wonder if he also drilled holes in the frame to help shed some weight?


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## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

I want to see the build!. The lengths alexrex20 is going to, to flame is retarted. More so than the build itself, but I guess we get our rocks off in different ways.

I'm not a weight weenie but curious to see if it can be accomplished. I rode a buddy's bmx at the park and I think it was mid 20s in weight. Man I hated the feel, felt like riding a paper clip.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

ServeEm said:


> I want to see the build!. The lengths alexrex20 is going to, to flame is retarted. More so than the build itself, but I guess we get our rocks off in different ways.
> 
> I'm not a weight weenie but curious to see if it can be accomplished. I rode a buddy's bmx at the park and I think it was mid 20s in weight. Man I hated the feel, felt like riding a paper clip.


it's almost as retarded as your spelling of the word _retarded_! almost!


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

XSL_WiLL said:


> ??? Best of what worlds? The Bottlerocket is heavy and not ideal for dirt jumping.


Oh...someone told me they were pretty light (~25lbs) and they have vids of the Transition crew DJing with them on their website...

Or maybe I'm thinking of another Transition bike...


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

alexrex20 said:


> his make-believe budget ought to cover one of these


Thats what he should buy, that thing is fruckin SWEEEET!!!! What does it say on the downtube?


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

It says intense...nevermind...


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

BR frame is 8.1lbs without shock. The Transition Double is 7.6lbs without shock. My Addict weighed 5lbs. My Blkmrkt is 6.5 or so. Both of my builds barely hit 24 with some pretty weight weenie parts.

The BR is more of a slopestyle, huck, and resort bike.

There's a video of a guy doing trials on a Raleigh road bike... does that mean it's a great bike to do trials on? No.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> his make-believe budget ought to cover one of these


Im not understanding why you say 'makebeleive budjet'?


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## kamikazee ideki (Jul 2, 2007)

Ignoring the ******** that has run rampant in this thread, if the OP wants to do any riding on his new project I suggest he allows himself to be open to some suggestions regarding the overall build.
1. Sell the fork, buy a fox 831 - your face will thank me for it.
2. The NS trailmaster rims are rubbish, DTswiss 5.1 or Mavic EX721's are a much better choice laced up to your preference of spoke (Sapim/DTswiss) and hub.
3. Dont bother with the gyro, just go for whichever light brake takes your fancy with an extra long hose eg Avid Elixir CR Mag or Hope Tech 2
4. Cockpit is a personal choice, some people like a high rise bar for a more neutral feel, I'm prefer my cockpit to feel low and wide... depending on you prefer, a thomson stem mated with either Boobars or BlkMrkt Badaboom bars are a solid choice.
5. Light tyres will have a noticeable change in how "light" the bike feels, I prefer Maxxis Crossmarks which come in at a respectable 450g depending on the model.
6. Keep the weight respectable, I know 24lb doesnt sound as cool as 20lb, but as people in this thread have pointed out, it will ride heaps better, I know my bike actually gained weight after it was built. (went from 24lb to 27lb)
Hope this helps,
Ben


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

kamikazee ideki said:


> Ignoring the ******** that has run rampant in this thread, if the OP wants to do any riding on his new project I suggest he allows himself to be open to some suggestions regarding the overall build.
> 1. Sell the fork, buy a fox 831 - your face will thank me for it.
> 2. The NS trailmaster rims are rubbish, DTswiss 5.1 or Mavic EX721's are a much better choice laced up to your preference of spoke (Sapim/DTswiss) and hub.
> 3. Dont bother with the gyro, just go for whichever light brake takes your fancy with an extra long hose eg Avid Elixir CR Mag or Hope Tech 2
> ...


Thanks for the reply.

Well Cranks i have been having second thoughts on, the idea of Ti cranks was never set in stone (i thought people may sujest somthing else rather just flaming my first idea)
The NS trailmaset i changed from my current trialtech rims as people claimed they was better so i changed them out.
Bars, i love a nice high rise and quite narrow. I'm now thinking of getting some butted Echo 7075 alloy bars.
I have been looking and now decided im going to go for some double butted steel spokes instead.
As a crank option im still quite limited so any help here is appreciated.

Craig


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

craigrobbo said:


> I know alot of people are knocking the parts i want to put on the bike but not to sound arsey im about 90% sure that most people havent tried the parts i am going to, more so in this combination.


I just sold my old bike with the XC Bomber fork and that fork was no way in the league of my 831 and probably weight same or more.

I have a bike with ti spokes and can't imagine anything but strong and stiff wheels for this sort of bike.

I also understand your wanting light and strong because I am an old fart, not so strong and talented, and I just did it. The difference seems to be using parts ideal for the job. My Bank is 25 - 26 pounds compared to my STP's 34 pounds.

My cranks are probably not appropriate if I did anything big but it's really my old fart's pump track bike more than anything else. It does the job so well that I can't imagine not going for something ideal for the job.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks for that.

Well my reasoning fr building this light bike is a project. now the project started like this.

When i was younger i rode BMX - nthing special just a cheapo bmx, i did a jump from staris to flat and my front wheel came off mid ride, i landed over the bars and had the following injuries
Broke my ribs
Disclocated my shoulder
Tore the muscle around
Pull the ligament compleatly off the bone
and (there was a tchnical term but i cant remember) damaged the cartalidge in between the joint.

Because f this my doctor sad i should never ride again, but with me being me i decided i wouldnt listen to him (lol)

So to save straining my self as much as possible im trying to build a light bike but since its Ti i was hoping that the flex would take away some of the 'hit' on lands etc.

Thanks

Craig


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

After a look around and a talk to a few bike shops.

I have decided to change the following.

Cranks Ti : Now Middleburn cranks RS7/8 (hell 500grams with chain ring and lifetime warrenty! cant beat that!)

Bars Ti : Now Echo 7075 Riser bar

Stem The Hook : Still open to sujestion, since i have now changed my bar i now need a 31.8mm stem.

Spokes : Now Double butted spokes.

Craig


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

craigrobbo said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> Well my reasoning fr building this light bike is a project. now the project started like this.
> 
> ...


well, with a story like that, it makes this build an even worse idea


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

craigrobbo said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> Well my reasoning fr building this light bike is a project. now the project started like this.
> 
> ...


did you drill out the hubs and dropouts to save weight? just like how you drilled out your crank arms to save weight... which then broke.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

craigrobbo said:


> Im not understanding why you say 'makebeleive budjet'?


i never said that.

i said, "make believe budget."


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

alexrex20 said:


> i never said that.
> 
> i said, "make believe budget."


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: !!!!!


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> did you drill out the hubs and dropouts to save weight? just like how you drilled out your crank arms to save weight... which then broke.


No, the wheel nuts came off the bike. The thread had stripped on them and i didnt know.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> i never said that.
> 
> i said, "make believe budget."


Ok, so why did you say "make believe budget."


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

clewttu said:


> well, with a story like that, it makes this build an even worse idea


So at this point what is now bad about it?

i have changed the cranks, spokes, Bars other than the for what else should i change?

Craig


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## JAZ (Apr 22, 2005)

As said by others I can't see that this is really a feasible project, you could maybe build one around that weight but it will not really be fit for purpose.Add that extra kilo or two & have a super light bike that's still rideable or build a poser show bike that's (as said above) a road bike that looks like a DJ bike. Infact I can't see how it could be done even with the lightest DJ style parts.

I have built myself an XC hard tail that is 17lb something & if I'm honest it's a bit scary to ride off road. It was a struggle for me to get under 20lb with out looking at all the details (bolts/chain/skewers/tyres/tubes/headset cap/etc) & that's on an xc bike.
I only ride it fast on smooth trails I know & within certain limits, there's no way I'd jump it or fly off large drop offs like on my FS bike. It's only a kilo or so less than what your aiming for & is based around a Scandium Aluminium frame with lots of carbon (including rigid carbon forks).
Ok you don't need some of the drive train I have on my xc bike but even that saving isn't going to add up to much.

Your essentially building a big BMX & they struggle to hit that weight. My Take framed BMX has light (but safe) parts & is still 25lb, I can't see how I could hit 20lb on that bike & your trying to do it on a 24"/26".
Honestly, try & find someone with a superlight (20lb & under) bike & have a go on it, you will change your mind about building one then as they are way too fragile.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

JAZ said:


> As said by others I can't see that this is really a feasible project, you could maybe build one around that weight but it will not really be fit for purpose.Add that extra kilo or two & have a super light bike that's still rideable or build a poser show bike that's (as said above) a road bike that looks like a DJ bike. Infact I can't see how it could be done even with the lightest DJ style parts.
> 
> I have built myself an XC hard tail that is 17lb something & if I'm honest it's a bit scary to ride off road. It was a struggle for me to get under 20lb with out looking at all the details (bolts/chain/skewers/tyres/tubes/headset cap/etc) & that's on an xc bike.
> I only ride it fast on smooth trails I know & within certain limits, there's no way I'd jump it or fly off large drop offs like on my FS bike. It's only a kilo or so less than what your aiming for & is based around a Scandium Aluminium frame with lots of carbon (including rigid carbon forks).
> ...


Hi fully appreciate what your saying.

But what i dont understand is i have been flammed and hated in this thread and since i updated my parts list people are still flamming and hating.

What is wrong with the new parts list, i think itll still be strong(i mean the cranks have a lifetime warrenty and im yet to read a bad reveiw on them)

I dont know of anyone breaking the frame, and i think the only let down part maybe the forks (which i may switch out for some fox forks at a later date)

So to sum up, i have a parts list of known to be strong bike parts and im still getting hated because its a sub20lb bike?

What i want is a sub 20lb, so why is everyone putting me off?


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Hey do what you want. But spending money on a Ti frame and throwing on a XC fork is a disaster waiting to happen. If $$ is no question, get the BEST DJ fork made to date, not a XC lightweight one that will eventually fail. As far as the rest of the parts, at least you are changing a few key things. Ti spokes are a joke on anything other than road or XC racing wheelsets. I used to ride them when I raced XC and personally a well built wheelset with light rims and hubs laced to db spokes are far better. Go with aluminum nipples to lower the weight.

For a stem go Thomson. About the best light/strength ratio there is.

The reason you are getting flamed is that building a RIDEABLE 20lb DJ bike is really, really dumb. If doing it strictly for the sake of having done something as a goal, then that is fine. But it will not be fun to ride. Fun to look at and cruise around on sidewalks maybe, but not fun at all to actually hit jumps with it. I have a 26 lb DJ MTBMX bike. I would not want anything lighter. 99 % of actual DJ riders would agree that sub 20 is just not rideable..


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Demo-9 said:


> If $$ is no question, get the BEST DJ fork made to date


He brings up a really good point, if money is no object (apparently its not with the ton of cash you are about to spend) wouldnt you want the absolute best dirt jumper you could absolutely build? Most badass DJ'ers cost half what you are planning to spend on this wet noodle

you have your mind made up, go blow your money (parents money?), and post some pics up when you are done


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

while others may be flaming him because he wants to build a sub 20lb DJ bike, i'm flaming him because he spells worse than people that can't speak English.

"sujestions" - c'mon, _seriously_!?!?


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## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

alexrex20 said:


> while others may be flaming him because he wants to build a sub 20lb DJ bike, i'm flaming him because he spells worse than people that can't speak English.
> 
> "sujestions" - c'mon, _seriously_!?!?


Do you even ride a bike? Seems like you're lurking around waiting to find errors in people's spelling. You must be an _extreme spellchecker _ right? Damn fool, I believe I recall you questioning the OP's age. You can't be older than 18yrs old.

Reason I visit this thread is cuz I'm curious of the outcome of this build. I'm sure the rig will turn out to be a pavement princess, but I'd like to see if he can really maintain a sub 20lb build. Once he hops on the bike I'm sure he'll feel that there's no way in hell he's taking any real trails with it.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

alexrex20 said:


> did you drill out the hubs and dropouts to save weight? just like how you drilled out your crank arms to save weight... which then broke.


I keep wondering when the weight weenies will catch on to drilling their skulls out. It would be weight savings no matter what bike they ride. Maybe extra ventilation would help with hot summer weather?


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

dont worry guys hes got insur....well at least we know where he is going to post next:

http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=123


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

I may sell the fork when it comes and go for fox.

That would eliminate the last weak point in theory.

And why are you all *****in' about me not having private insurance???

General hospitals are fine!

Craig


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

your are in the UK and this is a predominately US site, there is a disconnect
very different terms of insurance, your free public healthcare is similar to having healthcare insurance over here, we do not have free government healthcare right now... the private healthcare you think they are talking about is similar to premium insurance here...something to that effect


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

ServeEm said:


> Do you even ride a bike? Seems like you're lurking around waiting to find errors in people's spelling. You must be an _extreme spellchecker _ right? Damn fool, I believe I recall you questioning the OP's age. You can't be older than 18yrs old.
> 
> Reason I visit this thread is cuz I'm curious of the outcome of this build. I'm sure the rig will turn out to be a pavement princess, but I'd like to see if he can really maintain a sub 20lb build. Once he hops on the bike I'm sure he'll feel that there's no way in hell he's taking any real trails with it.


why would you be interested in this build, unless you're dumbass weight weenie as well? you admit this build has no merit as a dirt jumper, so why are you obsessed over it?

get over yourself. i ride an atomlab trailking with a fox 36 talas. i also have 3 GT hardtails (XC), all singlespeed. my rides aren't the lightest, they're not the heaviest, they're not the prettiest or the ugliest, they're not the most baller or the most ghetto. but i ride, and i also have an intolerance for the ignorance of people that can not do such simple, medial, elementary things like spell the words of the language they've spoken their entire life. for you to excuse such ignorance is ignorant and irresponsible on your part.

what i ride, and if i ride has nothing to do with this sub 20lb DJ build being utterly pointless; it has nothing to do with you being as pathetic as the OP.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

bitflogger said:


> I keep wondering when the weight weenies will catch on to drilling their skulls out. It would be weight savings no matter what bike they ride. Maybe extra ventilation would help with hot summer weather?


and they can reap the benefits in anything they do, from walking to jogging to even driving! the drilled skull will undoubtedly lower their CG and thus the CG of their vehicle. it will transform a VW Golf into a Ferrari!


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

clewttu said:


> your are in the UK and this is a predominately US site, there is a disconnect
> very different terms of insurance, your free public healthcare is similar to having healthcare insurance over here, we do not have free government healthcare right now... the private healthcare you think they are talking about is similar to premium insurance here...something to that effect


Thanks for clearing this up.

Craig


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## sammysmc (Feb 13, 2007)

I think being dead set on 20lbs is stupid, that said....You could make a bike thats 22 tough and jumpable

Parts like:

Banshee amp (aluminum frame)
fox 831
Dt swiss ex1750 (almost strong enough for DJ)
XT cranks
Continental Race king tires


I plugged these changes into my excel file that tracks pounds and $$ for a blk mrkt mob I'm making and changed out the parts I picked for the above to get 22.15LBS (as opposed to the 26.5 of my build)

Be smart....


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

ServeEm said:


> I'm sure the rig will turn out to be a pavement princess...


Quote of the day...


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

sammysmc said:


> I think being dead set on 20lbs is stupid, that said....You could make a bike thats 22 tough and jumpable
> 
> Parts like:
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks for the advice.

The amp my freind had and it was really a sweet ride on 26's but imo it was dog on 24's(just my opinion there)

The fox forks i think ill get.

As for the cranks, the middleburn's i chose i thought where a good choice (especially with the lifetime warrenty?)

Tires i already have, KHE Mac2's been running them for over a year and are my Fav tires

The spokes i think i shall take your advice on.

I know Ti i bendy but i do think the Charge Iron Ti will be strong enough for DJ as im yet to hear of one breaking or even any bad reveiws from it(other than from people who havent owned it)

But thanks for the advice and i shall tak eyou up on some of it.

Craig


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

you have yet to hear of someone breaking one, because no one buys them, at least no one who actually rides legit stuff


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

clewttu said:


> you have yet to hear of someone breaking one, because no one buys them, at least no one who actually rides legit stuff


Guess ill just have to be one of them who doesnt ride legit stuff.


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## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

alexrex20 said:


> why would you be interested in this build, unless you're dumbass weight weenie as well? you admit this build has no merit as a dirt jumper, so why are you obsessed over it?
> 
> get over yourself. i ride an atomlab trailking with a fox 36 talas. i also have 3 GT hardtails (XC), all singlespeed. my rides aren't the lightest, they're not the heaviest, they're not the prettiest or the ugliest, they're not the most baller or the most ghetto. but i ride, and i also have an intolerance for the ignorance of people that can not do such simple, medial, elementary things like spell the words of the language they've spoken their entire life. for you to excuse such ignorance is ignorant and irresponsible on your part.
> 
> what i ride, and if i ride has nothing to do with this sub 20lb DJ build being utterly pointless; it has nothing to do with you being as pathetic as the OP.


haha, you're a silly little boy. So much anger...

Your response shows your age and insecurities.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Don't criticize people for spelling unless you use proper punctuation and capitalize letters.....


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

ServeEm said:


> haha, you're a silly little boy. So much anger...
> 
> Your response shows your age and insecurities.


i'm not so insecure that i had to hide my age in my profile. what's your excuse? better yet, what's your excuse for participating in this discussion when you ride a Magna?


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

hardtailkid said:


> Don't criticize people for spelling unless you use proper punctuation and capitalize letters.....


my punctuation is perfect... unlike yours. the ellipse consists of only three periods.

hypocrisy is a beautiful thing.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

alexrex20 said:


> my punctuation is perfect... unlike yours. the ellipse consists of only three periods.
> 
> hypocrisy is a beautiful thing.


Well my spelling and grammar is piss poor but even i know you should have used a capital letter at the beggining.

Anywho..stop spamming my thread, i would appreciate it if you would stop posting in my thread altogether.

Any Mods watching this please can you remove 'alexrex20's' posts please and stop him from posting further if possible.

Thank you.

Craig


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

alexrex20 said:


> my punctuation is perfect... unlike yours. the ellipse consists of only three periods.
> 
> hypocrisy is a beautiful thing.


he never claimed to have great skillz, you are acting like an english teacher, but yet dont have anywhere near perfect grammar (punctuation included)
and you are coming off as a total asshat and totally off topic


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Alex,

.............!

Does that piss you off?


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## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

Alex won't stop, he's probably some 13yr old kid getting his kicks. I mean hell he's probably hella bored, shoot you can only beat off so long, gotta occupy the rest of his day.


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## craigrobbo (Feb 5, 2008)

Dudes, can we please go back to topic (which incedently is no better) : flaming my bike 

lol

But seriously With my new parts list is there any recomendation

I would like some recomendation on spokes please.

Craig


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Use pretty durable spokes, like DT Comps. They aren't light compared to what you are looking at, but they will be strong.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

ServeEm said:


> Alex won't stop, he's probably some 13yr old kid getting his kicks. I mean hell he's probably hella bored, shoot you can only beat off* so long, gotta occupy the rest of his day.


*Given that one has the ability and the know-how


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

clewttu said:


> he never claimed to have great skillz, you are acting like an english teacher, but yet dont have anywhere near perfect grammar (punctuation included)
> and you are coming off as a total asshat and totally off topic


i'm sorry that your english writing skills don't yet include the prose and style that i use in my posts. i assure you, my grammar and punctuation are impeccable. you just haven't reached that point yet.



ServeEm said:


> Alex won't stop, he's probably some 13yr old kid getting his kicks. I mean hell he's probably hella bored, shoot you can only beat off so long, gotta occupy the rest of his day.


please don't lecture me on maturity when you use words like "hella" and make jokes about "beating off."


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

hardtailkid said:


> *Given that one has the ability and the know-how


that's especially funny coming from someone that just went through puberty.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

alexrex20 said:


> that's especially funny coming from someone that just went through puberty.


What ever you say, junior. How old are you again?


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2010)

Well, this got off track. Thanks for playing, Buh Bye...


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