# Not eating enough?



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Background on me, I was and am still overweight. I've been riding most of my life, but I didn't ride for about 6 years. Started again last year. I currently ride my plus bike 3-6 times a week. My wife and I are training for a multi-day, 300 mile bikepacking trip this fall. We ride fire roads, double track, single track, bike paths, road, and a mix of it all. I push myself to maintain 14+ mph averages on the bike paths (10-25 miles), 10+ on the hillier road rides, and the mountain/mixed rides are a crap shoot for average speed.

6 weeks or so I started the 30 day gallon of water a day thing and I really kick started a health kick for me.

I almost immediately started eating about half of what I was eating before I started (I just pretty much ate whatever, whenever before this).

I got into a pretty consistent eating schedule. Eating 5 times a day, starting with breakfast when I get up, around 8 or 9 depending on the day, small lunch at noon, snack around 3, dinner 6-7, and something light around 9pm. Bed time is usually 12-1am.

A few weeks ago I started counting the calories that I was eating (with no changes to my diet) and they were in the 1100-1600 range, daily.

Last week I started shooting for an actual goal, of maintaining a minimum of 1200 calories, and a maximum of 1300 on my off days, and a max of 1400-1500 on workout days (though I do exceed this occasionally, if my workouts require it).

Some days it seems hard to eat enough. The only carbs (ignoring carbs found in fruits and veggies) I have are for breakfast, cereal (whole grains only) or a slice of whole wheat toast with eggs.

Yesterday, for example, I only ate 1070 calories. 1 cup cereal with skim milk for breakfast, 1/2 banana around noon, 2 eggs with salsa and plain yogurt around 2, 350 calorie salad for dinner (chicken breast, romaine, cucumber, some other veggies, and a light dressing). I had a banana around 9 just to get calories up a bit. I also went for a run with my son yesterday, 40 minutes of jogging or so.

I wasn't hungry, I wasn't tired, I felt great. I woke up this morning and had a bowl of cereal at 8, my wife and I did 10 miles in the woods and I have never felt stronger. Every time I am out on my bike I feel a little bit stronger than the last time.

I am loosing about 2.7 pounds a week, 18lbs in 6 weeks, but this past week I lost a full 3 pounds.

Do I need to increase what I am eating? Are my losses higher because I am just starting dieting?

Thanks


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

How much do you weigh? 1,200 calories is a rather severe limitation, especially for someone that is fairly active.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Currently 210lbs.


----------



## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

And how tall? 210# of Weight doesn't tell the story if you're 6'3" like I am. Any less than 195# and people worry about my health because I'm too thin. Haha. 

To your question, I think 1200 calories is pretty low for someone as active as you are. It may be enough to keep you from feeling hungry, but your body needs more to recover and grow properly. IMO you'd see better muscle growth and fitness gains if you were eating more to support your activity. As active as you are more carbs aren't a bad thing if they're good clean carbs. Mix in a little while grain pasta. I'd consider more protein too.

Also, Id concentrate more on body fat % than weight. As you get fitter muscle gain starts to offset fat loss. Since muscle weighs more than fat, you'll reach a point where you actually stop losing weight and probably even start gaining weight.


----------



## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

You still need to consume enough to fuel your activity. 

As you lose weight due to calorie restriction, your body adapts to the fuel shortage and becomes more efficient. You begin to lose less and less for the same number of calories consumed.

Can you continue that level of eating after you eventually reach your target weight? Probably not. You will add the weight back on as soon as you resume a normal eating pattern, and then some. 

Instead -- determine your resting metabolic rate. Add to that your non-exercise activity like your job and household chores. Add your exercise activity. That will give you an estimate of your total calorie expenditure per day. A healthy weight loss diet is 10% less than that. You will have a slower, but steady, weight loss that is sustainable once you reach your target weight. You will have to recalculate your resting BMR as you lose weight and gain fitness, so the daily calorie intake is a moving target.

Other tips: Up your protein to about 1.5 gms/kg/day. Don't go over 2.5 -- too high a protein intake actually inhibits muscle recovery and tissue synthesis, and may displace other components of a healthy diet. Up your fiber to 40-50 gms per day. Both fiber and protein have higher satiety, so you are less hungry during the day and thus less likely to snack or overeat. Protein also has a higher thermic value than carbs, thus increasing your BMR slightly. Caveat -- increase fiber slowly. Too big a jump at one time will cause gastric and bowel distress. Also, a downside of high fiber is more frequent bowel movements, several per day. Not really a bad thing, just inconvenient at times.

Use a tracker app or website to record your daily diet and activity. I use the USDA Supertracker website, many others work as well. Use whichever is more convenient to you.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

I am 5' 10". 36" waist (currently). 31" inseam.

Protein wise, in the area of 100gm/day, I will try to up it to 150 to get to the 1.5/kg.

Fiber, probably 20-25 gms, haven't really been counting.

I will start adding some whole grains to lunch, and add a few hundred calories a day to the routine.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

How is your sleeping? Most people that are overweight have a slower metabolism. (trust me I know) if you have plenty of energy, and are not overly sore form you workouts, and are progressing. You're eating enough. But if you go low it's a good idea to eat at least 2200-2500 calories one day a week to help keep your metabolism going.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Sleep like a rock, 6-8 hours (my fault on short nights, never up before alarm clock).

Today I had my typical breakfast, 300 cal
- 9 mile bike ride with the kids (slower than my usual pace, kids are 5 and 8)
Granola bar mid ride, 100 cal
Added a wheat wrap to some chicken breast around 12:30pm, 450 cal
Hard boiled eggs with some honey mustard as egg salad around 4pm, 285 cal
- 30 min workout with kettlebell and punching bag, followed by 1 mile run
Romaine, bell pepper, cucumber, chicken breast salad around 9pm, 280 cal

Total for the day 1415 cal

I really don't know that I can physically eat much more than this. I could eat the same amount of crappier food, and have a higher calorie count, but I am pretty full all day, right until its time to eat again.


----------



## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Don't worry with "not eating enough". If you feel ok, and considering your weight and height, you are fine with this what you eat. If I calculated right, your BMI is in range of obesity not even over weight, so you have still a whole lot of reserve. I agree BMI is so damn averaged average that it's basically useless, but at least it gives you some pointer. So no worries, you are doing fine. And your fast paced weight loss will stop once you come to more normal weight. It's easy to lose weight fast once you are seriously overweight then later on, when your weight closes more to your optimal weight.
So for now, if you feel ok and you feel sort of powerful, keep going this way, and don't worry about it.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Black Squirrel said:


> Sleep like a rock, 6-8 hours (my fault on short nights, never up before alarm clock).
> 
> Today I had my typical breakfast, 300 cal
> - 9 mile bike ride with the kids (slower than my usual pace, kids are 5 and 8)
> ...


Then you are fine. Like the guy said above. If you were not eating enough to heal you wouldn't be sleeping well.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Thanks guys. I'll keep at it. I would like to get back down to 180 by the end of the year, should be possible.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Well, its been 2 more weeks or so. I am still loosing 2.5-3lbs a week, still eating 1200-1300 calories a day.

I finished out July with a total of 200.1 miles ridden, most of it in the woods, some of it on pavement on my plus bike.

I should hit my first goal of being under 200lbs in the next week or two.

The big question is what do I do next? Is it time to step up the calories to 14-1500? If it is, is it better to eat bigger portions or try to add in another "meal"?

I am to the point now where I am just starting to feel hungry right before the next planned meal.

Current schedule:

7:30am - alarm clock
8:00am - cereal with almond milk
10:30am - usually on ride, granola bar
12:30pm - usually home from ride, salad or chicken breast and veggies formed into a meal
3:00pm - the opposite of the the 1230 meal 
6:00pm - usually something with tuna or eggs, sometimes chicken again
9:00pm - salad
11:00pm - something in the 60-100 calorie range to finish off the day and eat enough
12:30 to 1:00am - bed

One other thing to point out, I am not sure if its the better eating, or more exercise but I am sleeping more. Ever since high school I slept 5 hrs a night max. Now its rare that I get less than 6.5 or 7 hrs.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Figured I would bring this back to the top.

It's been another 2 months. Diet is still going well. I am eating 13-1400 calories on my low activity days, which is more often than not right now. Around 1600 on ride days.

I am still loosing 3lbs a week, like clock work, and have lost 5.5" off my waist.

This morning I weighed in a 182lbs, a total of 48lbs lost. Every 5lbs or so I increase the calories that I am eating a day a little bit.

My goal is to end up around 160-170lbs, and end up eating 1800-2000 calories a day around the same time.

The weight number is less important to me than how I feel, but ideally I would like my waist measurement to be 2" or so smaller than my hip measurement, but only time will tell if that will happen.


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Black Squirrel said:


> Figured I would bring this back to the top.
> 
> It's been another 2 months. Diet is still going well. I am eating 13-1400 calories on my low activity days, which is more often than not right now. Around 1600 on ride days.
> 
> ...


Congrats, your method is similar to what I do, recalculate calories at every 5 pounds lost, average around 1300 per day, sometimes as low as 900, as high as 2,000. Approx. 70 pounds lost sin Jan. !. I do exercise fairly regualry and have been ramping up the miles running.


----------



## acedeuce802 (Jun 30, 2017)

That's some great progress, good job!

The change in calories should go the other way, you need less calories as you lose weight. Although it seems that you are trying to increase calories slowly until you reach equilibrium. Eating too few calories can be bad because it messes with your metabolism. The typical way of choosing your caloric intake is to calculate your maintenance calories then minus 500 calories, and maintain that 500 calorie deficit (while adjusting for losing weight, so maintenance calories decreases) until your desired lean weight. Then add calories back in to either maintain weight, or gain muscle. 

At your height/weight, I would think you should start eating 2000 calories now, which should still be well low enough to lose weight. I'm 5'10" as well, and am 168 right now. I've been eating about 2000 calories per day, and 2300 on bike days, and that's good for about 1.5 lb of loss per week.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Thanks!

You must use a lot more calories than I do daily.

My plan is to ramp up, over the next 22 weeks.

4 weeks of losing 2lbs/wk
3 weeks losing 1.5lbs/wk
5 weeks losing 1lb/wk
10 weeks of losing .5lbs/wk
and hopefully ending up at a healthy 160lbs eating around 2000 cal a day.

I have been using a plan like this since I started dieting, and I am only using it for a guide. Every month or so I see where I am at and adjust the plan accordingly.


----------



## Fisherman166 (Oct 11, 2015)

I'm 6'0", 178 lbs and you eat way less than me. If I ate 1700 calories a day I could lose a pound a week (which is healthy levels of weight loss). On an average day I eat 2200-2300 calories. Riding days I probably eat 3000 or 3500. I'm just doing maintenance and not weight loss though.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Yeah, I am eating around 1400 a day now, works been crazy so I haven't been riding much.

If all goes well some time over the winter I will just need to worry about maintaining.


----------



## neilingle (Feb 26, 2008)

Fat loss is very simple. You need to be in a healthy calorific deficit to loose fat. If you have a deficit of 500 calories a day vs what you body burns you will lose 1lb of fat per week.

This is a sensible amount.

I think the op calorie deficit is way to much. You could eat a lot more and still lose body fat.

You also need to track your macros, aim for 50% carbs, 25% fat 25% protein to start.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Well, I appreciate the advice.

That being said, since my original post in July, I have met with a nutritionist, and we have been pretty much sticking the the goals and methods that I originally laid out.

I am currently eating 1400-1500 calories a day (more on ride days), and have been slowly ramping up as things progress, aiming for 1800-2000 calories a day as I reach the weight goal (waist size, actually) that I am going for.

I have been loosing 2-3 pounds a week, with 100% consistency for almost 5 months now. This will of course slow down the more I ramp up what I am eating, and the last 10 pounds to go should take 3 months to lose.

As of right now I have lost 55 pounds, my pant size dropped from a 40 to a 34.

In all honesty, I have never felt better in my life. I am lighter than I was in high school and feel like I have the energy I had back then.


----------



## peter85 (Mar 7, 2017)

Congrats! It's hard to keep at it for so long. I dropped from 85kg to 70kg in a period of about 4 months last winter and felt much better for it. Kind of a similar story to yours, although, I just ate lots of fruit and veggies and drank less beer + riding lots.

When you reach your weight/waist goal, check out Matt Fitzgerald's Endurance Diet. It's a great way to think about eating as fueling without overthinking the details.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Figure I might as well toss in another update on this.

I am down to 164lbs, total of 66lbs lost and my 34's are getting loose.

I figure I have about 1.5" to go, and hoping to do that in the next 15lbs.

I'm eating 1500-1600 calories a day now, and losing about 1.5lbs a week.

I am too the point now where I don't even miss "bad" foods anymore. I have really gotten into a groove with my eating, and the hardest part is now on the days that I need to eat more.

I start every morning with dark chocolate kodiak pancakes (high protein, whole grains), and end every day with home made frozen yogurt (fat free greek yog, peanut butter and fruit) and those 2 things completely cover any cravings for junk food that I may have.

In between I have mostly vegetables, 2 other fruits, and 2 servings of lean meats (anything from 96/4 beef, chicken breast, tuna if I'm pressed for time).

I pretty much eat every 2 hours if not more, and maintain a feeling of content, not hungry and not full from 7am until 11pm.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Another 6 weeks gone by. Down another 10 pounds, and into 32" pants. Just started 1750 cal/day last week, and started doing push ups and pull ups daily. This past week I lost 1/4lb, 1/4" off my waist and gained 1/4" on biceps. Going to hold this routine through January, and then work up to 2000 cal/day over a few weeks.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Not sure if anyone is still reading this, but if you are, I have a question.

I'm at 1685 cal/day right now, came down a bit. I have been dropping between 1/4lb and 1/2lb a week right now, still losing a good bit off my waist. I just broke below the 1 to 1 waist/hip ratio. Still working out 4-5 days a week, just push ups, pull ups, a little with the kettle bell, and end it with a 90 second plank.

My next big goal is getting down to 12% ish body fat, currently at 16% going by my scale (not really accurate, I know).

I got on the bike for the first time last week, and we got 17 miles in. I plan on riding more, probably 15 min on the rollers a day, and a 15-25 mile ride once a week. What should I be eating on the long ride day? Do I eat back those calories, add a few extra, or stick with the diet?

Thanks.


----------



## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

Black Squirrel said:


> Not sure if anyone is still reading this, but if you are, I have a question.
> 
> I'm at 1685 cal/day right now, came down a bit. I have been dropping between 1/4lb and 1/2lb a week right now, still losing a good bit off my waist. I just broke below the 1 to 1 waist/hip ratio. Still working out 4-5 days a week, just push ups, pull ups, a little with the kettle bell, and end it with a 90 second plank.
> 
> ...


Since your weight loss has slowed down, you should look into carb refeeds. Doing these around a long ride will be ideal...depending on the intensity of the ride you can refeed beforehand for more energy during the ride, or refeed afterwards as your insulin sensitivity will be optimized. Carb refeeds will kickstart your metabolism and make your muscles feel fuller, all while re-accelerating fat loss. As you get leaner, you can get away with eating more carbs due to insulin sensitivity / better nutrient partitioning.

It will be difficult, but you need to find the balance of 1) fueling your body and workouts, and 2) not overeating for extended periods and getting complacent. I lost 65lbs 12 years ago...keeping the weight off is far more difficult than losing it. Stay focused and don't fall off the wagon; it really is a lifestyle change. But don't fall into the trap of "perpetual cutting" because then you'll be dealing with nasty hormonal issues ie hypothyroid, low T, etc.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Thanks for the feed back!

I just did 4 days of an extra 250 cal/day, that finished up last week, I lost no weight on the scale, but lost 1/4" off my waste.

This week I went back to 1685 cal/day, and this morning I was 153.4 (1.4lb loss from Sunday), but some times I get a little extra dip mid week, Sunday mornings the weights I count.

I am extremely meticulous about what I eat. 8 months now, recorded every single thing I have eaten, every day, never went over that days goal. So I am not too worried about maintaining my weight, I am more worried about setting up a plan of what to eat to maintain my weight.

I bought a set of body fat calipers, and they have me at around 13% currently, the scale still says 16%, but if I put it athletic mode, it says mid 12's. I don't really care what the actual number is, I just know that I want to lose 3-4 more %. I know that can be done in less than 10 pounds.

Muscle wise, I am getting strong, but I know that I'm not eating enough to really build. I gained 3/4" on my arms, but it pretty much plateaued there. Again, not really concerned, I want to be strong and healthy, not big.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Here's a pretty average day for me, though I switch up my proteins a lot between tuna, eggs, lean ground beef, chicken, occasionally a small steak.

The frozen yogurt is home made, fat free greek yogurt, 1 banana, 1 tbsp peanut butter.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Just about a year in. I have been maintaining my goal weight for about 2 months now. Still track everything that I eat, every day. I enjoy counting calories and macros (as crazy as that sounds).


----------



## joshtee (Jun 30, 2016)

Nice work!


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Black Squirrel said:


> Just about a year in. I have been maintaining my goal weight for about 2 months now. Still track everything that I eat, every day. I enjoy counting calories and macros (as crazy as that sounds).
> 
> View attachment 1198481


Update?


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Past a year now. My goals are 2200-2400 cal a day, 2800-3200 on ride days. Still dropping just a little weight. Less than 1lb a month for the past 3 months.

Trying to eat enough, but some days are 100-200 cal short. I don't want to loose much more, if any. Would be OK with putting a pound or 3 back on.

My riding is super strong, mostly road and gravel lately, the trails are all overgrown this time of year.


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Black Squirrel said:


> Past a year now. My goals are 2200-2400 cal a day, 2800-3200 on ride days. Still dropping just a little weight. Less than 1lb a month for the past 3 months.
> 
> Trying to eat enough, but some days are 100-200 cal short. I don't want to loose much more, if any. Would be OK with putting a pound or 3 back on.
> 
> My riding is super strong, mostly road and gravel lately, the trails are all overgrown this time of year.


Strong work man, congratulations.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Thanks!


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Also, had my blood pressure checked today. 121/79 with a resting heart rate of 52bmp, pretty happy with that.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Figured I would bring this back up again, hopefully it can help some people out in the future.

My goal weight was 145, and I have been maintaining that since early April.

I got down to 141 for a few weeks, and up to 144, but have been hovering around 143-144.

I started to eat more carbs (clean ones, fruits, veggies, whole grains, etc), 2200 cal/3000 cal on ride days with about 50% from carbs, and I really started to feel like crap.

Everyone told me I needed to eat more, so I upped it to 2400 cal, 50% from carbs. Still felt like crap, always hungry, always out of energy. Went up to 2600, some days 2800. Still not great.....

About 10 days ago I switched back to 2200 cal/day with a 33/33/33 macro split. It took about 3 days to go back to feeling much better. Some days I wasn't even hungry and ended up shoveling down a serving or two of peanut butter before bed just to hit my calorie goal.

Anyway, long story short.... do what works for you. There's everything from Keto to Carnivore to Vegan out there, a million "diets" in between and 10,000 reasons why each is the best and everything else will kill you in weeks.

General rule of thumb..... just like everything in life, things in moderation tend to work pretty well, and are sometimes the easiest to stick with.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Started a regular workout routine about 3 weeks ago.

Still eating around 2200 cal/day, some days up to 2400. 30/30/40 macro split (more fats), no real reason for the change, just changed what I have been eating for breakfast from pancakes to oatmeal and eggs.

I have almost no time to ride, but I try to get on the rollers 30 min a day/4 days a week. Only burns about 300 calories vs the 1500+ I was burning on the road.

In the last 3 weeks I have gained 3/8" on my arms, lost 3/8" on my waist and hover in the 140-142lb range at an estimated 7.5% body fat. Calipers say 6%, scale says 9%, both consistently.


----------



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Anyone else feeling the winter blues?

STRUGGLING!!!! I just want to eat non stop and zero time to ride.


----------

