# 50+ Carbon HT Riders?



## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

How many of you are riding a carbon HT?
In all my years riding & racing I have spent most of my time on a HT.
Spent a few years on a epic and a fsr both 26"....
At this time I am on a F29 Alu and a 29" Tandem. 
I did take a parking lot test the other day on a carbon superfly and as you know a parking lot test don't say much about the real ride.

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## Bail_Monkey (May 8, 2007)

I've been on a 2010 Norco Team XC the last few years. It is the frame the sponsored Norco XC riders used back then.

I built is up and did not use the highest end parts, it weighs around 23.5 lbs. (Large) With race components, it could probably get down to ~21, maybe a bit lower.

After riding a carbon HT, I can't (will not) ride an aluminum frame mtb again. IMO, at our age >50 (53.5 for me), the lighter the better as 1/2 of mtb rides are climbing. And climbing with a 'heavy' bike sucks. You'll burn less calories on the climb, feel 'fresher' and will be able to ride longer....

You'll need to definitely find your line with the HT on a DH and the lighter weight tends to buck the bike around much more. But that is the trade off to a HT and light weight... You also use your legs as part of the suspension on the DH's.


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Nice lookin' Rig BM....
The other thing I wanted in a new HT is the 69-70.5 HA
So far thinking Santa Cruz Highball & Trek Superfly 9.6


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

XC Mike said:


> Nice lookin' Rig BM....
> The other thing I wanted in a new HT is the 69-70.5 HA
> So far thinking Santa Cruz Highball & Trek Superfly 9.6











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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

Recently switched from a Ti HT to a carbon HT. The ride is definitely different from the Ti bike, but I like the feel of the ride better. The carbon bike is 1 lb lighter than the old bike, but I don't think I notice the weight as much as I notice the power transfer when climbing. I also have a 27.5 Aluminium FS bike that is 2 lbs heavier than the HT. Again, I don't think I can feel the weight.


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## Bail_Monkey (May 8, 2007)

XC Mike said:


> Nice lookin' Rig BM....
> The other thing I wanted in a new HT is the 69-70.5 HA
> So far thinking Santa Cruz Highball & Trek Superfly 9.6


Nice lefty, heard they were much stiffer than 'regular' forks. I rode with a guy a few years ago with carbon cannondale scalpel 29er and he ripped the DH's pretty good.

To slacken HT angles 1*, 1.5* more than the standard frame geometry, you can look into Anglesets from Cane Creek. There are a few others that make them, works components, fsa...


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

I love the Lefty so much that I might add it later when I have the funds.
It's a 2013 f29 it's a 90mm fork but feels so stiff and smooth 

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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

I updated it to XT 11 speed and added XTR clipless best Alu HT I have ever owned 

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## Jpcannavo (Sep 4, 2015)

Bail_Monkey said:


> I've been on a 2010 Norco Team XC the last few years. It is the frame the sponsored Norco XC riders used back then.
> 
> I built is up and did not use the highest end parts, it weighs around 23.5 lbs. (Large) With race components, it could probably get down to ~21, maybe a bit lower.
> 
> ...


Not trying to be a nay sayer, but I don't get the whole weight thing. I DO get the structural distinctions: stiffness, Feel, power transfer etc. but given that weight of bike plus rider is say 200lbs, I can't see how a 1/2-1% difference will have an impact on how I feel physically. My weight itself fluctuates more than that from day to day as my salt, food and water intake vary. Now I'll be first to admit I haven't ridden carbon. I am I missing something?


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## Bail_Monkey (May 8, 2007)

Jpcannavo said:


> Not trying to be a nay sayer, but I don't get the whole weight thing. I DO get the structural distinctions: stiffness, Feel, power transfer etc. but given that weight of bike plus rider is say 200lbs, I can't see how a 1/2-1% difference will have an impact on how I feel physically. My weight itself fluctuates more than that from day to day as my salt, food and water intake vary. Now I'll be first to admit I haven't ridden carbon. I am I missing something?


Everyone has an opinion on pretty much everything and mtb is no exception. I would do a test, go for a mtb ride with a FS aluminum mtb which is 31 lbs, 25 miles and 6k elevation gain for time. Now do it on a 23 lb FS XC race bike and determine how you feel after the ride on both days.


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## Jpcannavo (Sep 4, 2015)

Bail_Monkey said:


> Everyone has an opinion on pretty much everything and mtb is no exception. I would do a test, go for a mtb ride with a FS aluminum mtb which is 31 lbs, 25 miles and 6k elevation gain for time. Now do it on a 23 lb FS XC race bike and determine how you feel after the ride on both days.


Issues are often muttled by failing to isolate variables, and mtb is no exception. I'm only talking about fatigue resulting from the the difference in weight that obtains with aluminum as opposed to carbon (nowhere close to from 31 vs 23 lbs) for two otherwise identical bikes and frames.

As for my own experience. Rode an alloy 29 HT (spec rockhopper) for years (which always felt a bit harsh to me) and always wondered how a carbon frame would feel in comparision. But now on a 6fattie comp and lovin it. Still a bit carbon curious though...


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Bail_Monkey said:


> Everyone has an opinion on pretty much everything and mtb is no exception. I would do a test, go for a mtb ride with a FS aluminum mtb which is 31 lbs, 25 miles and 6k elevation gain for time. Now do it on a 23 lb FS XC race bike and determine how you feel after the ride on both days.


If I tried this on my local trails I would probably be either dead or serious injured. My lightest bike, a knolly warden, is around 31 pounds. 150mm rear 160mm front, 66 degree head angle. I can climb all day on this bike and then rip back down. So fun. Xc bikes have their place, but definitely not on the North Shore.


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## Bail_Monkey (May 8, 2007)

Skooks said:


> If I tried this on my local trails I would probably be either dead or serious injured. My lightest bike, a knolly warden, is around 31 pounds. 150mm rear 160mm front, 66 degree head angle. I can climb all day on this bike and then rip back down. So fun. Xc bikes have their place, but definitely not on the North Shore.


The context was regarding weight of the bike, not the ability to ride a light XC rig on DH terrain. The hypothetical test would probably best be done on fire road climbs and XC type DH's.

I've taken my XC bike to Northstar at Tahoe years ago and it's the wrong bike for sure, I do not advise it if your riding all of the trails (Black ones on the map).......unless someone wants a serious challenge or a physical beating.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Bail_Monkey said:


> The context was regarding weight of the bike, not the ability to ride a light XC rig on DH terrain. The hypothetical test would probably best be done on fire road climbs and XC type DH's.


Sure, I get that. I have no doubt I would be faster and less tired riding a light XC bike on a fire road. But why would I want to when the FS rig is so much more fun and can be ridden on real trails?


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## Wheelz (Aug 23, 2004)

*I don't agree.*



Skooks said:


> If I tried this on my local trails I would probably be either dead or serious injured. My lightest bike, a knolly warden, is around 31 pounds. 150mm rear 160mm front, 66 degree head angle. I can climb all day on this bike and then rip back down. So fun. Xc bikes have their place, but definitely not on the North Shore.


I ran my Specialized Stumpy HT at the Tahoe 100 in 2014 at Northstar and had a great time. I finished the race in under 6 hours.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Good for you. I am glad you like your HT and that you had a good race. I don't race or measure my rides by the clock. I will always prefer my dual-suspension AM bike for the type of riding I do. For me XC / Hard Tails make no sense.


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## rzims (Sep 7, 2005)

I built up a carbon "race bike" Haro that came in at 21lbs....rode it for a while and just never really clicked for me. Moved all the components over to a Vassago Verhauen steel frame and love it.
I'm not a real racer, I do a few a year, but this year will be doing the Tahoe 100 on this bike. 
Not sure what the difference is, but there's definitely something I like on the steel that wasn't there on the carbon bike. btw - steel bike is almost 23 lbs so I picked up a couple of lbs moving away from carbon....

Not sure if this helps at all or not


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## BigZeee (Dec 12, 2015)

rzims said:


> I built up a carbon "race bike" Haro that came in at 21lbs....rode it for a while and just never really clicked for me. Moved all the components over to a Vassago Verhauen steel frame and love it.
> I'm not a real racer, I do a few a year, but this year will be doing the Tahoe 100 on this bike.
> Not sure what the difference is, but there's definitely something I like on the steel that wasn't there on the carbon bike. btw - steel bike is almost 23 lbs so I picked up a couple of lbs moving away from carbon....
> 
> Not sure if this helps at all or not


I have moved from a carbon 29 HT to a heavier aluminium 27.5 FS. On the new bike I climb slower, use more energy and get passed by better riders more often.... But my wrists and back are happier and I have way more fun for the type of riding I do - non-competitive cross country and trail.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

I would highly recommend you at least consider a + bike. I was riding a rigid 29+ for 3 years and now put a Lefty fork on it. I am now super fast for me, faster than I ever have been. I'm 57 and very happy with this ride.


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## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

I ride a carbon HT, but it's a fat bike. When the trails aren't too Rocky or rooty and have a lot of flow, I'll ride my Pivot Les Fat. Otherwise I'm on my Carbon SC Tallboy 29r.








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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

No carbon but I just built an aluminum hardtail as a backup/rain/exploration bike. I had some parts, didn't want to pony up $$$, and was curious about the geometry so I ordered a Mondraker Vantage. Bigger tires offset the aluminum so it's not that harsh. Was fun on it's first ride and I'm taking it out again today. It will also save wear and tear on my Warden.


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## Spastook (Dec 19, 2007)

Been riding a Carbon Stumpjumper Expert 29er. Dumped the front fork and put a "Niner" rigid carbon one on. Started riding with a rigid Stumpjumper in 1984 so I've come full circle. Think I might invest in a set of 27.5+ wheels and turn it into a "low fat" bike.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

Definitely appreciate a light carbon HT on days when I know I'll be climbing a lot.
Hard to beat the efficiency.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

crconsulting said:


> Definitely appreciate a light carbon HT on days when I know I'll be climbing a lot.
> Hard to beat the efficiency.


I'm confused, I equate lots of climbing with lots of descending😉


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

Travis Bickle said:


> I'm confused, I equate lots of climbing with lots of descending


Ha! Yeah what goes up must come down, except what takes an hour to climb takes 10 minutes to come down around here. I guess it just depends how "angry" I am that day. And if I want to go faster going uphill or downhill.

And on some days, I just show my age and do neither, but just go full old school rigid...


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Bail_Monkey said:


> Everyone has an opinion on pretty much everything and mtb is no exception. I would do a test, go for a mtb ride with a FS aluminum mtb which is 31 lbs, 25 miles and 6k elevation gain for time. Now do it on a 23 lb FS XC race bike and determine how you feel after the ride on both days.


I would be more interested in the scenery than the time.

I'm still riding mainly singlespeed and always rigid both ends. It keeps me on my toes.


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## ajjrsons (Jul 15, 2015)

I have a '15 SC Highball and love it. I have a couple of other full suspension to match the trail, so I'm lucky there. The most noticeable to me is the incredible acceleration of the Highball, but the weight and power transfer is a blessing on long hills too. I swap the wheels/tires and use it for my urban commuter too. There are trails where the 100mm fork is not enough. I'll go to a 120mm option this year. Weighs in at 22lbs with XC rims and 23lb with beefy Stans Flows.


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## ajjrsons (Jul 15, 2015)

Pic from Virgin, UT - RedBull Rampage.


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

That is one Hot Ride!!!
I just got a SC myself at a smoking price of $950 on CL....
It's not carbon but I thought for the price I could not go wrong.
I figured if I like the way the geometry feels I will start saving for the carbon frame.









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## ajjrsons (Jul 15, 2015)

XC Mike said:


> That is one Hot Ride!!!
> I just got a SC myself at a smoking price of $950 on CL....
> It's not carbon but I thought for the price I could not go wrong.
> I figured if I like the way the geometry feels I will start saving for the carbon frame.
> ...


Nice. The HA is steep with a 100mm fork, at least for me, but the 29er rims balance it out. Is that a 120mm 34 Rockshox? I'm looking at forks now and trying to compare the weight of a 34 vs 32.


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

It's the stock Recon 100mm...
I'm gonna put a 100mm Fox on it.
I almost put my 90mm Lefty on it but it just sold on eBay the other day

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## joebike (Oct 11, 2004)

*Here's mine.*

Had this a few weeks and I love it!


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*Rigid Carbon*

Here is a pic of my Lurcher....love that bike


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## Sirguy (Aug 10, 2014)

Hi Mike, I just posted yesterday on this sub. I ride a carbon superfly. I never raced but I love riding. Sometimes i have thought a full suspension bike might be easier on my old back, but it seems like exorsize is helping my lower back and i like the simplisity of the hardtail.


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## fatcat (Mar 11, 2006)

I vote carbon. When climbing starts to go slower there's nobody to blame but your fat self. Mine is 20 lbs and seriously, do I blame the bike? No! Yes, if your bike is 30lbs. Its like carrying 2 five pound bags of sugar in your backpack.


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## xray_ed (Oct 9, 2004)

I rode an aluminum hardtail (Niner EMD) for 4 years before getting a carbon AIR 9 RDO last year. The RDO is about 2 lbs lighter, but the biggest difference is in efficiency. The RDO climbs like a road bike. When I push hard or stand, it just leaps forward!

That being said, I think I'm going to get a FS rig soon, Last year I did several 50 mile rides and races and found that after 3 or so hours I started feeling beat up. After 5 hours I'm wrecked. Also, I recently suffered a serious back injury when got hit by a deer while on a gravel grinder ride. Seriously, you can't make that up! Anyway, this injury is my rational to the "Budget Committee" to make the move to FS.

Now, the next decision is 4" or 5" of travel!


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## xray_ed (Oct 9, 2004)

On the "lighter bike" note, I found this calculator that compares times on climb between bike/rider weights and the results were surprising. It seems that weight matters more when:

1. The climb is steeper
2. The road is rougher
3. The power output is lower (surprised me here)
4. The rider/bike weight is higher (surprise me here too!)

http://analyticcycling.com/ForcesLessWeight_Page.html


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

I recently sold my carbon Epic for a new carbon hard-tail and I am pretty impressed. I will say there is one or two rides a year I do where I would want a FS, but for 1-3 hour rides and XC racing, this should fit the bill. As for descending, I'm also liking the HT due to slacker geo than my Epic WC had. As for weight, there are a lot of opinions but I can feel a pound difference on a light bike. I'll add that carbon is more comfortable too especially bars and seat posts. I little flex in proper areas can give a little relief which is better than none. Bottom line is we are all different and ride what you enjoy most!


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## Sirguy (Aug 10, 2014)

Nice bike, how do you like the Lefty? I have learned a lot about carbon in the last couple years. I spent almost 3 grand on Enve carbon rims and they chopped a huge chunk of weight off the bike, they are much stiffer and not as much fun dealing with gnarly roots and rocks as the old aluminum rims. Also I clipped a tree this weekend with my carbon break handle ( XTR Trail) and it broke off like a cheap peace of plastic. Still love my bike, but there is a lot to take into consideration when upgrading. Enjoy your new ride, it looks like a great one! 


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

joebike said:


> Had this a few weeks and I love it!


Nice set up!

How does the CG-R feel on the HT? Have you tried any other suspension posts (Thudbuster, SunTour, etc...)?


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## Sirguy (Aug 10, 2014)

Not sure if your talking to me but... I tried the Suntour and i find it " squishy" and really heavy. I also tried the thompson master piece and am currently riding the carbon specialized with the rubber wedge. Its plug ugly but it works. 


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## MegaMustang (Sep 12, 2009)

I race Carbon HT for short (<2 hr) races. I ride a FS bike for longer/marathon races.









Had a break in a seat stay a few weeks ago, and Cannondale replaced the frame under the lifetime warranty. :thumbsup:









Frame is a different color... but three years newer... and has a new lifetime warranty! :thumbsup:

_Matt


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Sirguy said:


> Nice bike, how do you like the Lefty? I have learned a lot about carbon in the last couple years. I spent almost 3 grand on Enve carbon rims and they chopped a huge chunk of weight off the bike, they are much stiffer and not as much fun dealing with gnarly roots and rocks as the old aluminum rims. Also I clipped a tree this weekend with my carbon break handle ( XTR Trail) and it broke off like a cheap peace of plastic. Still love my bike, but there is a lot to take into consideration when upgrading. Enjoy your new ride, it looks like a great one!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I really like the Lefty. Compared to the SID I had on the Epic, it is super plush. I also like having the lockout on the bar (XLR version) for when I hit the pavement or a smoother climb to get all the power down. The only thing I do not like is it's a but of a hassle taking the wheel off by removing the front brake caliper but the through-axle is very stiff. I am not feeling any flex and I'm not light either.


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## Higuma (Apr 1, 2016)

*Just Climbed back on...*

Hi guys,

* first time poster *

I have been a road rider for many, many years but have recently decided to get back on a MTB after about 20 years away from having one...

Partly due to the fact that I have been in Japan for the past 15 years, I decided to concentrate on road riding but living up north in Sapporo we have such a short summer riding season I decided that I need to get back on a set of knobbies and spend less time sitting around with my thumb firmly planted...

To that end I recently ( a week ago ) picked up a KTM Aera 3.65 carbon Hardtail, spent the interim putting things they way I wanted them and just today took it out for my first ride...

27.5 - 100mm travel - carbon hardtail...

It's a decent bike and was almost ½ price as the KTM distributor in Japan didn't renew it's import agreement and so my LBS had one model that they blew out to me for a little over 1,000 usd...

First thing I did was convert to a 1x10 set up using a OneUp oval 32t ring - most components are a combination of XT & Deore...

All snow is gone from walkways but there is still quite a bit off the beaten track so I need to wait for a while longer to get any trail work in...

If I learned one thing today - it was that the stock saddle *REALLY* sucks and has gotta go right away...

Cheers,


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Wow that KTM looks nice!

At some point I may pick up a carbon Highball but for now I'm really liking the ride of the Aluminum HB









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## Higuma (Apr 1, 2016)

XC Mike said:


> Wow that KTM looks nice!


Thanks Mike...

There's nothing at all wrong with Aluminium & at our ages carbon probably has less of an effect on our individual performances than many might think...

In my case, I wasn't even considering carbon until I found this deal - just lucky ?

That's some sweet looking countryside you're riding there... lucky boy....


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Sirguy said:


> I tried the Suntour and i find it " squishy" and really heavy. I also tried the thompson master piece and am currently riding the carbon specialized with the rubber wedge. Its plug ugly but it works.


My Specialized Roubaix has an optional Cobble Gobbler that for some reason, I've never used on the road bike up to this point and it has been sitting around for a couple of years. I might try it on the mountain bike to see how it feels. I guess I'd never thought of trying it on my mountain bike until I saw joebike's picture above.

Plug ugly doesn't bother me.


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## LoneStar (Jun 17, 2004)

53 here and ride a hardtail often. Living near Atlanta, I can't always find the time to go the mountain trails north of us, so like a lot of us, I end up riding the same close trails often. These are typically shorter rides in time and a lot less climbing. I have a Pivot Mach 5.7 and just recently built up a Pivot Les (been riding a ByStickel before that). I like having the hardtail to keep the local stuff a little more interesting and different than riding the same trails with the same bike all the time. I did built the Les up a little burlier and slacker which makes it a little slower probably, but boy is it fun! I don't notice it being that much harder on my body. You learn pretty quickly to stay light on the bike.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

XC Mike said:


> How many of you are riding a carbon HT?


As of about a week ago, I am. For the past ten years I've been (and sometimes will be) on a custom Ti hardtail (which is sometimes rigid, sometimes single speed). But I've been tempted to try something new for the past few years and with kids leaving home and needing some sort of pacifier while dealing with a less than ideal work environment, I splurged on my current dream bike -- a Scott 900 RC, carbon everything, sub 20 pounds without cages and pedals. I've got about 70 miles on it over the past week and it makes me feel 10 years younger - seriously! It handles oh so nice, with immediate response to pedal and steering inputs, and it is smoother while being "stiffer". Don't let anyone tell you a light bike doesn't matter -- yes, I've got 10 lbs I could lose but those ~4 lbs I lost off the bike create a different and much better ride sensation. I've beaten some of my long-standing Strava PRs over the past week. And last night I finally beat that 15 year old kid in the local race series!


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

I guess I am on both sides of the fence...my Yeti Big Top has aluminum and carbon construction. Love the frame.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

One of our fat bikes is plastic. It (Farley 9.6) is not too unlike our Farley 8, and it's more like the Farley 7s I've tested and 5s rented. I'm not yet convinced it's the magic people say it is as much as nice. It was a 2016 model year close out so less than the AL Farley 7. It was hard to tell much difference in test rides. A friend says put plastic handlebars on it to match.

If anything it with the plastic fork make for nice balance and an interesting ride when conditions are poor or nasty where you pick your way through more trials style.

I'm not saying I'm against the composite but so far it's like a lot of nice stuff where you have diminishing returns as you spend. Overall I find your bike engine and it's motor mounts make the biggest difference!


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## tatuowen (Jun 27, 2013)

My 2013 Air9 Carbon


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Posted this in 50+ thread re: HT as primary bike...:

Turning 57 this month, had a heart incident last December, now I find longer "hybrid" rides -- bit of road, bit of fireroad, bit of flow single track -- to be the ticket for the ticker, so what was going to be my Masters xc race bike (until heart thing) has become my go-to ride:

'15 OPEN Cycle 1.0 hardtail carbon 29er, 17.48 pounds (yes, with pedals). Seriously considering the '17 ONE+ frame because they made so you could ride 27.5+ as well. (great little company, only make two bikes, designer is Gerard Vroomen formerly of Cervelo, https://opencycle.com/about)


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