# Project started!



## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

Hey everyone.

2018 DB Mason 2

Luna Bbshd (1500 w, program) (68mm)
Luna DPC 18 display
Luna full twist throttle blue
Gear sensor
2x brake sensors

TRIANGLE 52v Panasonic GA 18650 24ah
Fits perfectly in triangle bag within the frame.
Added some gun safe padding on the bottom and back side of bag.

So far no struggles. Frame is for 68mm size bbshd, used 2 3mm spacers. Only thing is that there is no space for black lock nut. No biggie, enough space w/a little room left for the main gray lock nut. Threw some locktite, its secure. Had to stick with the stock chain ring  with the 19mm offset it fit perfect w/ less then a couple mm away from frame. Ordered the eclipse bling ring 42t from luna before I recieved the kit. Wish I could use that, looks awesome. Stock chain ring gave me the perfect chain line for the bike... go figure. Hopefully soon I can find one with similar offset of 19mm that has 36t or 42t, 46t is bit much for what I'm using it for, want more torque.

Hopefully I'll finish today, but having a 7m and 2y boys, who knows lol.










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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

FWIW, your bike is basically illegal everywhere but a moto trail. 

-Walt


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

But it has pedals, and looks just like an analog bike...


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

I’ve installed and ridden a number of bbshd bikes and they are not suitable as mtb’s imnsho. The cadence sensing PAS is not conducive to riding tech unless you just use the throttle and what fun is that. Going to be a heavy bike also as shown. Good luck


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## mtb_phd (Jun 28, 2017)

Looks fun! I should have tried a conversion like this for my town bike


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

Bigwheel said:


> I've installed and ridden a number of bbshd bikes and they are not suitable as mtb's imnsho. The cadence sensing PAS is not conducive to riding tech unless you just use the throttle and what fun is that. Going to be a heavy bike also as shown. Good luck


DITTO! The Bafang BBS02B 750W 48V is a much better choice for bicycle feel. Check the riding laws in your local. Enjoy.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

ChrisJTX said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> 2018 DB Mason 2
> 
> ...


I give you a big ? for building that sucker right in your house on your carpet! Reminds me of my younger days. Enjoy your bike and please ride legal. You are a steward for mtbs and emtbs even though they are different.


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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

Gutch said:


> I give you a big  for building that sucker right in your house on your carpet! Reminds me of my younger days. Enjoy your bike and please ride legal. You are a steward for mtbs and emtbs even though they are different.


Lol thanks man. Yeah it's my wife's office/craft room. Carpets already ruined a bit, but surprisingly less of a mess then I thought with the install.

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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

Whiptastic said:


> DITTO! The Bafang BBS02B 750W 48V is a much better choice for bicycle feel. Check the riding laws in your local. Enjoy.


I thought about that option, but this build is for fun and hauling the kids on the trailer. I gotta another rig just for the trails.

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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

mtb_phd said:


> Looks fun! I should have tried a conversion like this for my town bike


You should man. Tested it out the other day, and it was a blast. With the knobbies hit about over 30mph. Thinking about putting some nice 2.8 road/hybrid wheels. Bet I can get that sucker up to 35 on road lmao.

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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

Walt said:


> FWIW, your bike is basically illegal everywhere but a moto trail.
> 
> -Walt


Yeah probably is for the trails in Houston, but I need to check. Gotta another rig I use for the mtb trails. But if I'm allowed it will be a blast to ride it on the trails.

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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

Some updated pics, before the intial test run. Brake sensor was PIA. Structure of the sram brake handles made it hard to properly align the sensor and magnet. Used epoxy glue for the magnets and sensor, also added zip ties to the sensor. Might upgrade to the ebrake tektro makes for a cleaner look. Never used so many zip ties in my life..lmao. not bad for a first ebike build.









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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

Bigwheel said:


> I've installed and ridden a number of bbshd bikes and they are not suitable as mtb's imnsho. The cadence sensing PAS is not conducive to riding tech unless you just use the throttle and what fun is that. Going to be a heavy bike also as shown. Good luck


Trust me, it's fun w/throttle only. Had to give up my motorcycles when I had kids. This is the next best thing w/out the wife giving you the evil eye, lol. As for cadence, I ordered a programming cable for it. From what I have found so far, you can adjust a lot of parameters for the motor, including cadence. The hard part is finding the sweet spot, as there is a learning curve to programming it.

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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

ChrisJTX said:


> Yeah probably is for the trails in Houston, but I need to check. Gotta another rig I use for the mtb trails. But if I'm allowed it will be a blast to ride it on the trails.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Dude, at 1500W it's illegal on the *roads* and bike paths too. It's pretty much only legal on OHV trails.

I mean, you probably won't get pulled over riding in the bike lane. But it's definitely not a legal vehicle basically anywhere.

-Walt


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## tahoebeau (May 11, 2014)

Walt said:


> Dude, at 1500W it's illegal on the *roads* and bike paths too. It's pretty much only legal on OHV trails.
> 
> I mean, you probably won't get pulled over riding in the bike lane. But it's definitely not a legal vehicle basically anywhere.
> 
> -Walt


The thing is that no one cares and even if they did, they wouldn't know how to tell and this includes the police or any other authority. I regularly see high powered ebikes like the stealth ebikes being ridden around town on the road.

It's time to admit that: _the amount of power an ebike has is completely irrelevant as long as it still looks like a bicycle._

The below article brings up a good point about having a 750w motor supplied with enogh power to bring it up to 2500w. One could argue that's legal since it only has a 750 watt motor* For example in Europe the law is 250w, yet their ebikes run well over that like the levo at 500w or 700w or whatever it is now. If it's 750w in the US, then bikes could run 1500w to 2500w with a 750w rated motor and no one would be the wiser except for us dorks on this forum.

https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/05/16/silence-infidel-the-real-reason-police-ignore-ebikes/
"Another issue is that if a policeman pulls you over they have to know the citation to actually write you a ticket for breaking that particular law. I would bet that most police have no idea what law prevents people from using ebikes or how to tell the difference between a street legal and not street legal ebike. I got several of the first batch of 1000W BBSHD's which have 750W stamped on the bottom. The street legal maximum for ebikes is 750 Watts and I carry around a copy of HR 727 so I can educate any cop that tries to harass me. Am I being entirely honest since I'm running a 60 amp controller that puts over 2500 watts through the drive train? I don't have to tell the cop about my Ludicrous controller, just show him the stamped 750W on the casing of the motor. Am I a horrible person? I would say yes."

*his is actually 1000w, but stamped 750, but same could be done with a true 750w rated motor.


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## tahoebeau (May 11, 2014)

Bigwheel said:


> The cadence sensing PAS is not conducive to riding tech *unless you just use the throttle and what fun is that*


Like all the fun. Here is an indisputable fact for you: throttle = fun

Seriously, why would you not want to have a throttle on your ebike? You don't have to use it if you want to pedal, but why would you deny yourself the fun factor and practicality of a throttle?

An ebike without a throttle is like choosing to ride an old rigid bike from the 90's over a really difficult and chunky trail. Ya, you can do it, but it would be a hell of a lot more fun and enjoyable on a modern full squish and at the end of the day fun wins.


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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

tahoebeau said:


> Like all the fun. Here is an indisputable fact for you: throttle = fun
> 
> Seriously, why would you not want to have a throttle on your ebike? You don't have to use it if you want to pedal, but why would you deny yourself the fun factor and practicality of a throttle?
> 
> An ebike without a throttle is like choosing to ride an old rigid bike from the 90's over a really difficult and chunky trail. Ya, you can do it, but it would be a hell of a lot more fun and enjoyable on a modern full squish and at the end of the day fun wins.




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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

Walt said:


> Dude, at 1500W it's illegal on the *roads* and bike paths too. It's pretty much only legal on OHV trails.
> 
> I mean, you probably won't get pulled over riding in the bike lane. But it's definitely not a legal vehicle basically anywhere.
> 
> -Walt


I guess compared to other states Tx is forgiving in ebike regulations. Ebikes in Tx are not classified under classes but as a whole. For road use, just need to keep it under 20; no matter what wattage you have. Also in TX, you can ride ebikes on bike paths unless otherwise indicated by posted notices. Trails I understand, the impact of torque on non maintained trails could damage them so many others cant use them, I'm also a pedal biker and I enjoy my local trails and would like to see those trails available to all and to my kids one day when they get older so they can too enjoy what I have. We also have some local trails that are maintained. I would have to go and see if there are any notices. There are also private land here in Tx that landowners have made for mtb and do not mind emtb riders to ride the trails as they are maintained.

And If wattage ever becomes an issue these controllers can always be programmed with less power.

https://www.evelo.com/texas-state-electric-bike-laws-definition/









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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

tahoebeau said:


> Like all the fun. Here is an indisputable fact for you: throttle = fun
> 
> Seriously, why would you not want to have a throttle on your ebike? You don't have to use it if you want to pedal, but why would you deny yourself the fun factor and practicality of a throttle?
> 
> An ebike without a throttle is like choosing to ride an old rigid bike from the 90's over a really difficult and chunky trail. Ya, you can do it, but it would be a hell of a lot more fun and enjoyable on a modern full squish and at the end of the day fun wins.


FYI I have three eBikes, 2 road and one mtb and they all have throttles on them. All are bikes assembled with "kit" systems. On an eMTB a torque assist PAS is far superior to any cadence PAS as it allows for the most natural feel at the pedal and that is the point I am trying to make.

If you get a chance to ride a torque assist system you will feel the difference immediately. I find the throttle only useful for starting off and getting going enough in tough situations to get enough pedal stroke in to activate the PAS. But for that it is very useful and I agree that all eBikes should have them. Cadence sensing PAS is too touchy and doesn't allow for a consistent pedaling cadence based on your effort pedaling as it's name might suggest.

Crowing about going 30-35mph on your bike won't get you much love on here either.


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## brownpownow (Jul 19, 2018)

ChrisJTX said:


> For road use, just need to keep it under 20; no matter what wattage you have.


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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

anyways... all in all, you need to ride with common sense.. dont travel at high speed in areas for pedal bike paths that are in heavy use. Use the speed offroad or onroad in some cases places that are allowed. Depending in what state you live can differ from what I have seen. BUT back to topic  So I decided to keep the Luna Bling ring bc I just found out they make 3.3mm spacers for it! Just ordered the spacer, hoping it will now fit without hitting the frame. Stock bafang offset is 19mm, eclipse is 24.8, so with the spacer it will be 21.5mm. With the diameter difference stock (190mm) vs eclipse (180mm) should fit.... hopefully chain line will be right on.


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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

brownpownow said:


> View attachment 1216524


Your right. To be able to use legally you will need to program the tune down.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

You don’t have to lower the power if you gear it so that 20mph is the top speed. As a bonus it will climb hills like a goat.


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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

that is true.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Bigwheel said:


> I've installed and ridden a number of bbshd bikes and they are not suitable as mtb's imnsho. The cadence sensing PAS is not conducive to riding tech unless you just use the throttle and what fun is that. Going to be a heavy bike also as shown. Good luck


This is what I've noticed too. It's just too hard to ride an e-bike on a real up-and-down trail, things happen too fast to adjust properly. You have to brake, change gears, AND remember about the e-power level you are supposed to be at. It's not as fun as a normal bike. If I do ride trails with the e-bike (if I even go on them, most of it's fire road stuff) I go slower with the e-bike than with a pedal bike because of this issue. Faster with a heavier bike does not always mean more fun, but it could mean flying off the trail and quickly regretting it.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

richj8990 said:


> This is what I've noticed too. It's just too hard to ride an e-bike on a real up-and-down trail, things happen too fast to adjust properly. You have to brake, change gears, AND remember about the e-power level you are supposed to be at. It's not as fun as a normal bike. If I do ride trails with the e-bike (if I even go on them, most of it's fire road stuff) I go slower with the e-bike than with a pedal bike because of this issue. Faster with a heavier bike does not always mean more fun, but it could mean flying off the trail and quickly regretting it.


Sounds like you don't know how to ride.


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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Sounds like you don't know how to ride.


just like non ebikes, you gotta plan ahead on gears, I've never shifted going uphill on a non ebike, always in gear before hand. Also a gear sensor is a must have add on IMO. Those who dont know, it stops the motor for a second so you can change gears with out having to pump the brakes or anything... smooth as silk shifting. I do not reccomend changing gear going uphill even if you have this add on, puts a lot of stress on the drive train. Just make sure to tweak your derailleur a bit so it's in the sweet spot. I had to tweak a bit after my initial setup. Also make sure you get the right gear sensor that works with your motor, not all are universal.

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## brownpownow (Jul 19, 2018)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Sounds like you don't know how to ride.


That, and he claims that his motor bicycle that he built uses a front hub motor.


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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

On a side note... reprogrammed the bbshd pas setting and found a sweet spot for pas settings. Was able to bike w/kid trailer for 10 miles today, w/some steep uphills along the way w/out breaking a sweat, truely awesome. obviously at a low rate of speed.... before I could only do it about 2miles pedal alone before I was pooped out. 

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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Sounds like you don't know how to ride.


You are just pissed off because you force yourself to like baseball. A game that you basically have to be an alcoholic just to get through for 4 hours.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

richj8990 said:


> You are just pissed off because you force yourself to like baseball. A game that you basically have to be an alcoholic just to get through for 4 hours.


Ooooh, that's rich man.

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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

3mm spacers for the eclipse fit perfect! Just enough space to clear the frame. Slightly better chainline too.









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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

Lekkie offset buzz bars just came in  project finished!














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