# Rear Shock Recommendations for 260 lbs



## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

Currently have a rock Shox deluxe rt3 on my 2019 specialized expert stumpjumper carbon 29”. 

My main concern is that the shock itself says not to exceed 325 psi. The specialized shock calculator says to inflate to 300 for my height and weight. That gives me about 35% sag (a little much I might need to re calculate and factor in gear as I’m sure I am 260 fully loaded). Also while riding I am bottoming out my suspension according to the “rubber band” I don’t feel it bottom out. Now, that is without doing many jumps or drops. My son and I are progressing to the point where we are hitting more jumps and a few drops. I worry that I might damage something if I’m already bottoming out.


----------



## ACLakey (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm running a Fox DPX2 on my Smuggler that came off a Stumpjumper and it works well. At 260 with gear on I'm running 265psi in the shock for correct sag. For bottom out, add more volume spacers.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## pebbles (Jan 13, 2009)

I sent my Fox to Push Industries, very happy.


----------



## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

if max is 325. Then go to max.

other options are. 

loose weight

or 

adding a larger volume spacer. This will add progression and resist bottoming.

next install offset bushings to correct for The excess sag.

get a tune done for a heavy rider like yourself.


----------



## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

I'm 6'7" and 250 and have struggled with rear suspension for years. I do my own research because the mainstream industry isn't designed for us.

Air isn't really the answer for us. We're all at the absolute design limits and seals and oil don't last as they should. It's always a compromise.

I have finally bitten the bullet and spoke to Avalanche Suspension. I got a call back and we spoke for a good 20 min about what I am looking for and they gave me a couple of options. I ride a Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol (old alu model) and want a more trail riding than DH orientated bike. Avalanche recommends a customized Marzocchi Bomber coil with a bigger spring.
I'll be sending that off in a couple of weeks so I will be reporting back to this forum on my experiences as a big guy spending money so other big guys can share the knowledge!


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

The problem with most new rear shocks(for us big guys anyway) is the self equalizing negative spring which means we have to run really high pressures. Best big guy shocks on the market imo are from Manitou. The McLeod, Mara and Mara Pro do not use self equalization of the negative spring thus pressures can be much lower. I'm 260 and my shock pressure is at 210psi. Obviously your psi will vary based on your exact frame leverage ratio but I highly recommend checking them out. They're just basic shim style dampers but they are pretty much bullet proof and give lots of tuning options. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## lwg (Mar 23, 2008)

I had talked with Hayes last week and they indicated that the Manitou Mcleod shock has been discontinued. They had mentioned that the Mara was it's replacement. To that point what's the experience with us larger folks with the Mara and Mara Pro in comparison to the Mcleod? I'm hoping to upgrade my airshock this spring to handle my larger size and looking for feedback?


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

lwg said:


> I had talked with Hayes last week and they indicated that the Manitou Mcleod shock has been discontinued. They had mentioned that the Mara was it's replacement. To that point what's the experience with us larger folks with the Mara and Mara Pro in comparison to the Mcleod? I'm hoping to upgrade my airshock this spring to handle my larger size and looking for feedback?


The Mara is essentially just a rebrand of the McLeod. The only major difference I can think of is their new flexible diaphragm IFP but otherwise internally it is the same. I couldn't tell a big difference between my Mcleod and a Mara I demoed FWIW. I haven't been on the Pro yet but those in the know have said that the big advantage is all the adjustments can be done with external knobs instead of playing with shim stacks. Also larger oil volume if you are heating up too much during longer downhills etc.


----------



## lwg (Mar 23, 2008)

bigkat273 said:


> The Mara is essentially just a rebrand of the McLeod. The only major difference I can think of is their new flexible diaphragm IFP but otherwise internally it is the same. I couldn't tell a big difference between my Mcleod and a Mara I demoed FWIW. I haven't been on the Pro yet but those in the know have said that the big advantage is all the adjustments can be done with external knobs instead of playing with shim stacks. Also larger oil volume if you are heating up too much during longer downhills etc.


I found another thread that explained exactly what you stated. Now my issue is the Mcleod had the perfect size in 190x50 but the Mara only has a 190x45 available... As the stock shock is actually 150x48 in reality it's only about 3 mm lost so at the end of the day it's only about .25" of lost travel and maybe I shouldn't give it much thought. In theory the new shock won't bottom out as much so the pros outweigh the cons.


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

lwg said:


> I found another thread that explained exactly what you stated. Now my issue is the Mcleod had the perfect size in 190x50 but the Mara only has a 190x45 available... As the stock shock is actually 150x48 in reality it's only about 3 mm lost so at the end of the day it's only about .25" of lost travel and maybe I shouldn't give it much thought. In theory the new shock won't bottom out as much so the pros outweigh the cons.


You might want to check with Hayes as the 190x45 is probably just a 190x50 with a spacer installed.


----------



## masonmoa (Jul 11, 2011)

TooTallUK said:


> I'm 6'7" and 250 and have struggled with rear suspension for years. I do my own research because the mainstream industry isn't designed for us.
> 
> Air isn't really the answer for us. We're all at the absolute design limits and seals and oil don't last as they should. It's always a compromise.
> 
> ...


So, I want to be begin this by letting you know that my intention is not to be a dick. Nor am I trying to pick a fight. But I've seen you state this in other threads and I'm wondering why you think this? I ask because I simply don't believe this is true. I'm 6'5 and weigh more than you, and I've weighed significantly more than you, and I've never run coil. I actually just recently tried a coil converted fork, and the added weight wasn't worth it to me. Huge waste of money. My new RS forks are just as good.

The thing is, when I first got back into riding a decade ago, when I could finally afford it, from going on the website I thought I needed a coil shock. So I searched and searched, but nobody in the USA made coils in the weight I needed. And it would have been super expensive to have one custom made. Maybe that's changed now, but I have no clue. So I've stuck with air and have zero problems and love my air shocks, altho I stick with one brand and service them regularly.

Also, some suspension designs simply aren't designed for a coil shock, like the Ripmo V1. And I have a friend who weighs 265, owns a shop and has worked for as SRAM team mechanic on a few Tour de France and Tour of CA races, and while he likes coil, I've never seen him ride one. When he felt my coil fork, he balked at the weight.

I guess I just worry that a bunch of newbs will read this, then go on a mission to source a coil but can't, or they do and the added weight is not worth it. Weight is why I won't ride one. My bikes are built like tanks and are all 33lbs, which is killer. To me, when it comes to shocks, it's more important for newbs to find a bike with a leverage ratio that'll work for their weight, and if the stock air shock doesn't work, then they can get it tuned or find a better air shock, preferably one that's highly tunable (and not big box brands). Anyway, like I said, just curious. No ill will at all.


----------



## lwg (Mar 23, 2008)

bigkat273 said:


> You might want to check with Hayes as the 190x45 is probably just a 190x50 with a spacer installed.


I just talked with Hayes and confirmed your suspicion. A "qualified" service facility can make this work by removing internal spacers. Also, in a rather long discussion it was noted that the Mara is best for Cross Country riding while the Mara Pro is more gravity focused. To quote Hayes, neither cares about how big you are. Planning to order this today/tomorrow from my LBS with high hopes it is better than my current Fox setup.


----------



## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

masonmoa said:


> So, I want to be begin this by letting you know that my intention is not to be a dick. Nor am I trying to pick a fight. But I've seen you state this in other threads and I'm wondering why you think this? I ask because I simply don't believe this is true. I'm 6'5 and weigh more than you, and I've weighed significantly more than you, and I've never run coil. I actually just recently tried a coil converted fork, and the added weight wasn't worth it to me. Huge waste of money. My new RS forks are just as good.


I'm talking about a rear shock. You're talking about a fork. Completely different applications. I personally ride an air fork and would like to try a coil or even better, a hybrid coil air from one of the tuning companies. It very much depends on your riding style and what you want in a fork. Still, on this point, we're talking about apples and oranges between a shock and a fork.



masonmoa said:


> The thing is, when I first got back into riding a decade ago, when I could finally afford it, from going on the website I thought I needed a coil shock. So I searched and searched, but nobody in the USA made coils in the weight I needed. And it would have been super expensive to have one custom made. Maybe that's changed now, but I have no clue. So I've stuck with air and have zero problems and love my air shocks, altho I stick with one brand and service them regularly.


I didn't even think about my weight or my height back then. Well, not beyond a frame that was big enough. I rode a Turner Sultan with Fox air front and rear and it was the best bike I'd ever owned. Snapped the frame after 11 years but everything mostly held up. I thought it rode well.



masonmoa said:


> Also, some suspension designs simply aren't designed for a coil shock, like the Ripmo V1. And I have a friend who weighs 265, owns a shop and has worked for as SRAM team mechanic on a few Tour de France and Tour of CA races, and while he likes coil, I've never seen him ride one. When he felt my coil fork, he balked at the weight.


Agree. Not all frames even have the space to take a coil. Then again, not all frames should be ridden by big heavy guys because their leverage ratio makes it too hard to get a shock to work well.

Everyone has biases and what they like and what they dislike. I find it funny that guys over 250 can be weight weenies, but that's me. As a percentage of my body weight, my bike is the lightest on the trails around here. If 1lb was that much of a difference to me, I know I could probably drop that off my body weight and it make more of a difference. My coil weighs 1lb more than my air can.



masonmoa said:


> I guess I just worry that a bunch of newbs will read this, then go on a mission to source a coil but can't, or they do and the added weight is not worth it. Weight is why I won't ride one. My bikes are built like tanks and are all 33lbs, which is killer. To me, when it comes to shocks, it's more important for newbs to find a bike with a leverage ratio that'll work for their weight, and if the stock air shock doesn't work, then they can get it tuned or find a better air shock, preferably one that's highly tunable (and not big box brands). Anyway, like I said, just curious. No ill will at all.


As I said, I don't get 250+ weight weenies. It doesn't make any sense in the overall scheme of things that a 3% weight difference on your bike matters all that much when you weight 7+ times more than the bike. My coil shock is absolutely better for me and makes my bike pedal and ride way better than it ever did on an air shock. Most air shocks are not designed for riders over 250 because most riders don't weigh over 250. their internals are not set up to be responsive at the minimum or maximum ends. They are for the average riders who weigh an average amount.

I'm not saying there are no air shocks out there that can, or can be made to work for us. I'm saying we are at the outer edge of the design and intended use for air shocks. This might change as more e-bikes get more technical, but not yet.
You do you. Getting something like a custom tuned shock was a big leap for me as a non-competitive rider, but I'm glad I did. For me it was like going from a bike I thought fitted me to a bike that actually fitted me. Only then did I have toe context to understand the difference. I know I'm outsize tall and heavy for the bike industry. I did my research. I took a leap, I'm happy with the results.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

^I agree with the coil spring over air spring for us bigger guys. Nothing performs well at the min or max operating conditions, and running tons of pressure in an air spring isn't ideal (remember I said "ideal", not that it won't work, but it isn't the best case scenario). That is where a coil spring is really beneficial, as long as the coil is correct, and the shock is TUNED for the coil spring rate, it really should be the most ideal setup for heavy riders. The coil spring will be happy day in and day out, regardless of temps or terrain. But, we all know that the frames that accept coil shocks typically are longer travel trail/enduro bikes, which might not always be ideal for the type of riding most people do.

With that being said, if you can find a shock that can be tuned well for your weight, then it will perform better then any off the shelf unit. Again, off the shelf stuff can work, but you are operating on the fringes of it's limits, which typically doesn't yield good results.


----------



## masonmoa (Jul 11, 2011)

True enough to all the above and thanks for the reply. I know I mentioned a fork, but I did so because springs/coil anything are heavy. And when I was looking 8-9 years ago, even with a good leverage ratio, I needed something like a 750-800lb spring. The highest Cane Creek goes stock is 670lbs, which might work now at my current weight. But it wouldn't when I weighed well over 300lbs. But I found Cane Creeks air shocks worked great! 

As for running air shocks at high pressures, once again, if the leverage ratio of the bike still allows the shock to be run within standard operating parameters, then I honestly don't see how it's less than ideal? I mean sure, I get that the valving and damper setups are not ideal for folks over 250lbs, but usually that can be customized/tuned to the rider's specs if need be and costs significantly less than a new coil shock. I'm no suspension expert, but if the max psi for a shock is 300, and I'm running it at 285, then it's within what the company says is acceptable. (I should make the caveat that I've never had luck with Fox or RS shocks, and they do suck at higher psi's. Also not a fan of DVO.) But I've never had Cane Creek contact me when I sent my shocks in for service to tell me that something was wrong with them, or that I hurt one in any way, or that there was significantly more wear and tear than normal because I ran them at 285psi and I weigh 275lbs. And sh1t, I know guys with low leverage ratio bikes who weigh under 250 who run their shocks close to max without custom tuning and they're stoke and it's fine. 

As for weight, I'm not a hardcore weight weenie. And maybe I'm just sensitive, but I can feel the extra 1-1.5lbs when I'm pedaling. I'll admit that I didn't notice it until I got my HD5 a few months ago, which is burly as [email protected]!k and weights 33lbs. I'd gotten used to riding tanks. But the HD is easier to handle, throw around and more comfortable in the air. This is also why I don't own an e-bike, (well, I also need the cardio) because I don't find a 35+lb bike to be that much fun or comfortable in the air, especially 29ers. And they feel sluggish, despite that I'm plenty strong enough to manhandle them. But that's me, and I have the luxury of being able to build my bikes this way.


----------



## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Coil FTW 

Sent from my HD1900 using Tapatalk


----------



## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

masonmoa said:


> I'm no suspension expert, but if the max psi for a shock is 300, and I'm running it at 285, then it's within what the company says is acceptable.


I spoke to suspension experts. More than one. Their answers were all slightly different but all told me I was at the edge of what most air shocks were designed for and a coil would be the optimal solution for me. They could all provide me with a custom tuned and re-valved air shock 'that would work'. However, since I'd have to buy a new air shock and pay for the work, I'd be better putting my money into a coil.
One mentioned the extra burden put on running an air shock at the limits of design spec. That with the higher pressures and greater forces being put through, we end up wearing out the seals and any oils or lubes in there will degrade quicker, pushing more frequent servicing and therefore costing more through life.

You do you. Bikes are great, big guys on bikes are having to find their own way and I'm sharing what I find. The 3% increase in the weight of my bike is more than offset by the improved pedaling efficiency (since I wanted this set up more for trail than gnar) and the superb way it also deals with the big stuff when required. If you're happy with your brand of air shock (and you only seem to trust one, which you hadn't mentioned before) then ride it. I'm talking about a different solution that I think works and all the engineering seems to back up.


----------



## lwg (Mar 23, 2008)

TooTallUK said:


> I spoke to suspension experts. More than one. Their answers were all slightly different but all told me I was at the edge of what most air shocks were designed for and a coil would be the optimal solution for me. They could all provide me with a custom tuned and re-valved air shock 'that would work'. However, since I'd have to buy a new air shock and pay for the work, I'd be better putting my money into a coil.
> One mentioned the extra burden put on running an air shock at the limits of design spec. That with the higher pressures and greater forces being put through, we end up wearing out the seals and any oils or lubes in there will degrade quicker, pushing more frequent servicing and therefore costing more through life.
> 
> You do you. Bikes are great, big guys on bikes are having to find their own way and I'm sharing what I find. The 3% increase in the weight of my bike is more than offset by the improved pedaling efficiency (since I wanted this set up more for trail than gnar) and the superb way it also deals with the big stuff when required. If you're happy with your brand of air shock (and you only seem to trust one, which you hadn't mentioned before) then ride it. I'm talking about a different solution that I think works and all the engineering seems to back up.


Which rear shock are you running now? I can't really find a coil over that works either for my shock size requirement (190x50) or one that has a spring rated for my weight and my bikes leverage ratio which is right at 2.0. I'm considering changing bikes for a lower leverage ratio in the future but this is not the year due to shortages. I really love my Specialized Stumpjumper Expert in every possible way but need to solve the rear shock issue as the stock Fox just isn't up to the task.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

I usually always add a spacer. My current Switchblade is very progressive so the larger spacer was a little to harsh for me. 

If you can afford it, Avalanche is the way to go. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## masonmoa (Jul 11, 2011)

lwg said:


> Which rear shock are you running now? I can't really find a coil over that works either for my shock size requirement (190x50) or one that has a spring rated for my weight and my bikes leverage ratio which is right at 2.0. I'm considering changing bikes for a lower leverage ratio in the future but this is not the year due to shortages. I really love my Specialized Stumpjumper Expert in every possible way but need to solve the rear shock issue as the stock Fox just isn't up to the task.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Well, I think you may have a couple of issues with running a coil on a Speshy. First, Speshy's usually have unique mounts for their shocks. (I haven't owned or seriously looked at one for years, but I have seen both products that are used to retrofit shocks so they can fit on Speshys and also shocks for sale that are Speshy specific.) And second, most bikes made to accommodate coil are longer travel, so there aren't springs made for shorter travel bikes. That's why you can't find anything.


----------



## masonmoa (Jul 11, 2011)

TooTallUK said:


> I spoke to suspension experts. More than one. Their answers were all slightly different but all told me I was at the edge of what most air shocks were designed for and a coil would be the optimal solution for me. They could all provide me with a custom tuned and re-valved air shock 'that would work'. However, since I'd have to buy a new air shock and pay for the work, I'd be better putting my money into a coil.
> One mentioned the extra burden put on running an air shock at the limits of design spec. That with the higher pressures and greater forces being put through, we end up wearing out the seals and any oils or lubes in there will degrade quicker, pushing more frequent servicing and therefore costing more through life.
> 
> You do you. Bikes are great, big guys on bikes are having to find their own way and I'm sharing what I find. The 3% increase in the weight of my bike is more than offset by the improved pedaling efficiency (since I wanted this set up more for trail than gnar) and the superb way it also deals with the big stuff when required. If you're happy with your brand of air shock (and you only seem to trust one, which you hadn't mentioned before) then ride it. I'm talking about a different solution that I think works and all the engineering seems to back up.


Yep, I only run Cane Creek shocks. They came stock on four of my old frames. Once I find a brand/product that works, I tend to stick with it because breaking down and getting stuck miles from the trailhead, or constantly dealing with sh1t breaking all the time, just ain't worth the time or trouble. I also almost always buy new because I want the warranty just in case, and am pretty good about regular maintenance. I've also found CC's customer service to be top notch. And in the past, when I'd gotten some of the big brand shocks and forks custom tuned, I was still never happy with the performance. My experience was that many suspension custom tuning shops had no clue how to deal with someone who weighed outside the bell curve, but again, the last time I tried was years ago.

I was actually looking at coil shocks last night, and I was surprised that you can now find 700-750lb springs pretty easily. That's a change since the last time I looked like 7-8 years ago when max was like 600. Pretty cool. And turns out not a horrible increase in weight, although I don't have any clue what spring weight they used to get their measurement.


----------



## lwg (Mar 23, 2008)

masonmoa said:


> Well, I think you may have a couple of issues with running a coil on a Speshy. First, Speshy's usually have unique mounts for their shocks. (I haven't owned or seriously looked at one for years, but I have seen both products that are used to retrofit shocks so they can fit on Speshys and also shocks for sale that are Speshy specific.) And second, most bikes made to accommodate coil are longer travel, so there aren't springs made for shorter travel bikes. That's why you can't find anything.


Ive got the Bike Yoke adapter for the Specialized which allows a standard eyelet mount to be used instead of the proprietary one.

I've mostly abandoned the coil idea, I'm pretty limited in options for a 190x50 shock.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------

