# Alfine 11 spd oil



## pintwister (Feb 27, 2011)

Does anyone know where I can buy the oil for sg-s700 (alfine 11 spd) ?
How much for 1L
Also ... Is there a substitute such as a light machine oil ?


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

Mobil 1 automatic transmission fluid. No, _really_. Can pick up a 1quart quantity for a couple dollars.


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## Pinchphlat (Feb 27, 2009)

I have noticed that a number of online bike stores are now selling the alfine 11 oil. Slane Cycles and Bikesonline are two sites that stock the oil. 

Be aware though that the oil is separate from the bleeding kit (kit number is TL-S703), and Shimano are pricing this kit at an extortionate rate - the sites I have seen selling the bleeding kit have it priced at about $60 USD  That is for a plastic syringe, bleeding nipple, and a (empty) container.

The oil is a little better - it costs about $15 USD for 50mL, which accoring to the servicing instructions will last for 2 services. A 1L oil supply sells for around $80 USD.

I would stick to the proper oil - Shimano are making it clear that this oil has a particular viscosity that suits the alfine 11 hub.


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## irrah (Dec 18, 2008)

Pinchphlat said:


> The oil is a little better - it costs about $15 USD for 50mL, which accoring to the servicing instructions will last for 2 services.


No, according to the servicing instructions you need 50ml new oil/1replacement. But still not bad price.

1. remove old oil
2. inject 25ml new oil
3. While performing gear-change operations, turn the pedals to
turn the wheel for about 1 minute.
Keep the wheel still without rotating for about 1 minute.
Remove the oil.
4.Inject 25 ml of new oil into the hub


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## Pinchphlat (Feb 27, 2009)

I agree Irrah that the oil is pretty cheap even if 50mL is used in the service. I hadn't realised from the service instructions that 25mL of oil just gets inserted into the hub purely for cleaning reasons and then sucked back out and not used again. However it makes sense I guess to ensure that any crud inside the hub is removed.

Has anyone on mtbr had some practical experience with changing the oil on an Alfine 11? I haven't come to my first service yet, so any feedback would be appreciated. Is it as simple as the Simano service instructions make out?


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

$15 for 50mL is ~$47,000 per barrel, cheap!


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

pursuiter said:


> $15 for 50mL is ~$47,000 per barrel, cheap!


I wonder what their ticker symbol is! Would have been nice to have gotten in on the ground floor, investment-wise.


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## Craig.battison (Jun 26, 2011)

Hi. Thanks for the 25ml info. I have just completed a first oil change; I couldn't
Find any oil to drain! I've put 25ml of [very old] ep90 gearbox oil; thick
And stinks of scrap yards.

I did have immediate gear selection issues but Properly locating tha plastic
Lock clip sorted that.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Craig.battison said:


> ...Find any oil to drain! I've put 25ml of [very old] ep90 gearbox oil; thick...And stinks of scrap yards.


Most people regret when they use heavy gear oil in a modern IGH hub. The shifting usual suffers, esp in cold temp.


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## tomacropod (Jul 23, 2004)

Sounds like a Rohloff service kit would do a better job, it comes with a cleaning fluid to use first, at least.

- Joel


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Instead of paint thinner and ATF at a premium of ~1000x the cost? And the benefits will be...what?


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## rick rocket (May 29, 2005)

Hi,
Anyone had any luck with alternative oil for the Alfine 11 yet, issues, working better or worse, etc? 
Need to service mine, or I would like to service mine, see if it helps it run a little smoother.
Any advice on alternative oils would be welcome

Cheers

Rick


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## bighoof (May 6, 2012)

*Bikesonline*

I got my kit and two bottles of oil from bikesonline.com for about C$130. Not cheap, but cheaper than my lbs.

Anyone else change the oil on their Alfine 11 only to find there wasn't any oil in it? Just did my first oil change today, and not a drop. One would think shimano would ship the hub oiled!


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## Pinchphlat (Feb 27, 2009)

Bighoof, my alfine 11 had oil in it when I went to give it a service. I sucked out a good amount of blackish oil - I presume it had some metalic particles and dirt in it.

Perhaps your hub has had a leak? Mine leaks a very small amount occasionally in hot weather, although this has never caused me any problems with the hubs performance, and there has always been plenty of oil left for me to suck back out again!


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## Shubda (Jun 5, 2012)

What are you sucking oil out with? Would two inches of small tube the size of intravenous line with a syringe work?


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## Trilancing (Feb 4, 2013)

Does the Rohloff oil change kit fit the threads on the Alfine?


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## Shubda (Jun 5, 2012)

pintwister said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy the oil for sg-s700 (alfine 11 spd) ?
> How much for 1L
> Also ... Is there a substitute such as a light machine oil ?


Reading statements about the Alfine 11's tendency to leak oil makes me wonder if that may be the result of the use of "substitute oils" that weaken the oil seals.


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## pintwister (Feb 27, 2011)

Shubda ... The threads for the oil port are 8mm. I use an 8mm grease fitting that can be purchased at any auto supply store.
You will have to drill it out so the oil can flow freely.
Attach the tubing to the fitting at one end, and the syringe at the other.
The same auto supply store also sells the large plastic syringe with the 25cc markings.


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## Pinchphlat (Feb 27, 2009)

I have been sucking the oil out of my hub using a big 50mL syringe. The syringe I am using has a thread on the end that I have attached a 6mm grease nipple onto. I also found that a 6mm grease nipple fits nicely into the Alifine 11 oil port. So I have just connected the two with some clear plastic tubing and it works great.

I got the grease nipples from my local auto store, and as a previous poster indicated, I needed to remove the backflow stop valve to make them work (I did this by grinding the back off the nipples with a dremel tool). The nipples were very cheap ($3 AUD for both) and the syringe was $10 AUD from a kitchen store (it was originally intended for meat tenderising).


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## roll_off (May 5, 2012)

Trilancing said:


> Does the Rohloff oil change kit fit the threads on the Alfine?


yes it does.
(and indeed I am also testing the ROHLOFF OILS in the A11)


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## john_dalhart (Nov 6, 2009)

Shubda said:


> Reading statements about the Alfine 11's tendency to leak oil makes me wonder if that may be the result of the use of "substitute oils" that weaken the oil seals.


There have been a couple of posts on various boards of weepy Alfine 11's where the user/poster swore they'd only used the official Shimano oil.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

roll_off said:


> yes it does.
> (and indeed I am also testing the ROHLOFF OILS in the A11)


+1 - great I've got Rohloff oil change bits in my garage.


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## OndrejP_SK (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi all, I we been just reading the forums here, absorbing the knowledge, and now I'd like to share my findings re. Alfine 11 alternative oil.

I'm at about 600km mark on my Alfine 11, but decided to do the oil change earlier, to get rid of the metal particles from wearing-in I've read about.

I've got a bleeding kit for magura disc brakes, and one of the tubes happens to fit on the hub also.

I sucked out all the nasty dirty oil, used pure parafin oil to flush the hub a couple of times. Three times the flushing oil came out completely opaque, then another 3 times gradually cleaner and when I placed strong magnet next to the plastic container where I poured the dirty flushing oil, the magnet attracted a lot of black sludge.

OK, now what to pour back in instead of the expensive Shimano oil ?

ATF vs. Gear oil: I've read a lot of different discussions about what to use, and I came to the conclusion that gear oil is superior to ATF for this application. (Gear oils for IGH? post number 8)

What viscosity ?
By visual inspection of the Shimano oil side-by-side with some motor oils I had in the garage, I would say that the viscosity at room temperature is something between 5w30 oil (175cSt) and 10w40 (270cSt). In gear oil numbering a 75w90 synthetic or 75w80 mineral oil would have similar viscosity in the range of 0-40 deg Celsius.

Synthetic vs. Mineral: At room temperature they may be identical, but near and below freezing temperature fully synthetic gear oils don't get as thick as mineral oils. The important value here is viscosity index VI (the higher the better). On the other hand synthetic oils may not be compatible with some seals used in the hub, but at least one report of successfully using synthetic oil in Alfine can be found here: Shimano Alfine 11 and mishifts - Page 4



> I run mine in a fully synthetic EP75 and have done from the 1st oil change - I found the Shimano oil thickened too much in very cold weather and the hub would flat refuse to shift up. The Shimano stuff is also very difficult to get hold of and ridiculously expensive. I've had no issues with seal degradation.


API classification ?
GL-5 offers the highest protection, intended for hypoid gears (requires highest level of protection from wear), but may not be compatible with yellow metals (brass, bronze). However there are gear oils which meet GL-5 and MT-1 specifications at the same time, where MT-1 means it is compatible with yellow metals.

More interesting reading: Servicing the Alfine 11 hub gear.


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## lucky2bhere (Dec 23, 2013)

Shubda said:


> Reading statements about the Alfine 11's tendency to leak oil makes me wonder if that may be the result of the use of "substitute oils" that weaken the oil seals.


I've had my Alfine 11 for more than five years and have only used Shimano's oil. I'm going on my 4th (!) drive-side seal. I've called them several times but they won't own up to the problem. My riding is urban, regular but relatively short, and not in challenging environments. I've changed the oil as recommended, etc. Design or material flaw, end of story.


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## lucky2bhere (Dec 23, 2013)

I just posted another. I'm in the "club".


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## Pinchphlat (Feb 27, 2009)

lucky2bhere said:


> I've had my Alfine 11 for more than five years and have only used Shimano's oil. I'm going on my 4th (!) drive-side seal. I've called them several times but they won't own up to the problem. My riding is urban, regular but relatively short, and not in challenging environments. I've changed the oil as recommended, etc. Design or material flaw, end of story.


I am sure it is a design flaw myself. There is a small seal (that surrounds the axle in the shifting mechanism on the alfine hubs. It is referred to as the 'lock washer seal' in Shimano's tech docs (part number 23 for alfine 11). That seal is 99% responsible for oil leaks in the hub. Aaron (from rideyourbike.com) advises that you should put a small amount of silicone sealant around the seal to stop the leaking. I haven't tried it myself, may may give it a try in the near future when I get some time.

For the record, I have always used Shimano's oil for the Alfine 11, and I have always had leaks.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

lucky2bhere said:


> I've had my Alfine 11 for more than five years and have only used Shimano's oil. I'm going on my 4th (!) drive-side seal. I've called them several times but they won't own up to the problem. My riding is urban, regular but relatively short, and not in challenging environments. I've changed the oil as recommended, etc. Design or material flaw, end of story.


I had 4 changes in my hub before it was totaled by a car. The only time it leaked was when I over-filled the hub, aside from obligatory weeping. The engineering maxim, "the seal that leaks, is sealed", comes to mind. Without weeping, the seals would quickly burn up from friction, and dump oil. Likewise, the other sealing elements on the hub. In fact, when you read the service instructions for breaking the hub down to the axle, they make a point to have the technician swipe oil on all of the seals when it it reassembled.

TL;DR: if you don't lube the edges of the seals when you install them, they will begin leaking shortly thereafter.

Interesting aside: did you ever wonder why new cartridge bearings spin with some resistance? It's not really the grease, as that is pushed out of the way once the bearings make a circuit...it's the rubber seals touching the spinning race. These often suffer from a lack of lubrication, and when you go to remove/service the bearing later and notice it spinning free-er, you don't realize that it is the seal being compromised, rather than the grease moving out of the way, that is causing the bearing to spin freely.


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## Steveroot (Dec 15, 2011)

OndrejP_SK said:


> Hi all, I we been just reading the forums here, absorbing the knowledge, and now I'd like to share my findings re. Alfine 11 alternative oil.
> ...
> ...
> API classification ?
> GL-5 offers the highest protection, intended for hypoid gears (requires highest level of protection from wear), but may not be compatible with yellow metals (brass, bronze). However there are gear oils which meet GL-5 and MT-1 specifications at the same time, where MT-1 means it is compatible with yellow metals.


I've been using Royal Purple Max Gear 75w-140 gear oil since the first oil change . It is safe for the "yellow" metals, though who knows if these are present in the Alfine 11. I assumed that they were! The Royal Purple was about $24 for a quart. I've done about 10 oil changes. My hub has over 7,000 miles on it and has not leaked oil, or performed poorly in any way.


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