# Do Full Face Helmets Need Replacing If They Take A Knock?



## MPX309 (Nov 3, 2014)

I've just ordered one and was wondering if it's the same situation as with normal helmets? I know dirt jump helmets can usually take several knocks but not sure what the situation is with the full faced ones?

thanks


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

Yes, replace it. You can get them super cheap in end of year sales right now. Typically the internal foam is polystyrene which will take one and only one impact in each location.

Secondly, there are some helmets which carry the moniker 'MIPS' , which stands for multi impact protection system, and people often assume this means the helmet can take multi impacts over time. Be extremely careful and read the fine print on these.

For example, if you look at the POC Trabec, that's not what it means. POC's MIPS, according to them, is in fact a system for handling oblique impacts (I.e. Impacts from weird directions). See also here :

POC MIPS:
http://www.pocsports.com/en/content/view/protective-concepts

About multi impact helmets:
http://www.xsportsprotective.com/pages/multiple-impact-helmets


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

MIPS - Multi-_directional_* impact protection system

A vast majority of helmets use EPS, expanded polystyrene, foam which gets crushed in a hard hit. You should only need to replace if you take a serious hit, as once crushed it loses its impact absorption ability.

I stopped wearing this helmet after this crash. It looked like just the visor and bolts holding it busted, but I hit hard enough to have a concussion. I think the foam is intact though. It seems to be one of those crashes where MIPS would've helped, rather than the foam.


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## OldManBike (Apr 16, 2011)

Procter said:


> Secondly, there are some helmets which carry the moniker 'MIPS' , which stands for multi impact protection system, and people often assume this means the helmet can take multi impacts over time. Be extremely careful and read the fine print on these.


Completely false, MIPS has nothing to do with multiple impacts.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

OldManBike said:


> Completely false, MIPS has nothing to do with multiple impacts.


Yes, that's what I explained. you did not read my entire post.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> MIPS - Multi-_directional_* impact protection system
> 
> A vast majority of helmets use EPS, expanded polystyrene, foam which gets crushed in a hard hit. You should only need to replace if you take a serious hit, as once crushed it loses its impact absorption ability.
> 
> I stopped wearing this helmet after this crash. It looked like just the visor and bolts holding it busted, but I hit hard enough to have a concussion. I think the foam is intact though. It seems to be one of those crashes where MIPS would've helped, rather than the foam.


Ouch, looks like a pretty high speed impact. I've tossed helmets after lighter crashes than this.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I've had a harder crashes, but this was the hardest one caught on film. I was going in way too hot to hit that jump, decided to take the detour around it, but I spotted a rider walking up it as I was landing from a previous jump and I stiffened up and panicked. He actually moved to give me room to take that line, but I was already set on going around him to the right.

Info on full face helmet construction:

Art's Cyclery Blog » What's in YOUR Helmet? | A Look at Helmet Technology


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## terrasmak (Jun 14, 2011)

When in doubt, replace it. Is $100 to $400 really worth your life or even a few days in the hospital.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

If a helmet has already saved you more than it's value in medical bills... you can replace it. I've destroyed 5 helmets over the years (snowboarding, skiing, two biking, one urban spelunking at a paintball place), and I'm still completely happy to replace those things.

The polystyrene is specifically designed to absorb as much impact as possible on a single impact - when even the cheap-asses in military happily replace the padding on helmets, it really is worth the money to replace stuff. In the case of biking helmets, it's cheaper to get a whole new helmet (especially this time of year).


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## OldManBike (Apr 16, 2011)

Some more info in this older thread.

OP, the answer to your question is that if a helmet is designed to be multi-impact it will say so. It is a helmet-by-helmet thing, not an all-category thing, even for dirtjump helmets but especially for DH helmets.


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## monstertiki (Jun 1, 2009)

I'm on my 3rd d3 for the year... If the foam under the lining is compressed than the helmet is junk.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Takes a pretty hard impact to crush the EPS foam, in general, as some brands only aim for passing the standard helmet tests, and getting specs like weight down, ventilation up, bulk down, and maintain style. I only know of a couple brands that bother to make their helmets absorb smaller hits too, such as to prevent mild concussions, notably Kali and Scott. The standard helmet tests focus mainly on hits that would cause death or severe brain damage.


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## OldManBike (Apr 16, 2011)

Varaxis said:


> Takes a pretty hard impact to crush the EPS foam, in general, as some brands only aim for passing the standard helmet tests, and getting specs like weight down, ventilation up, bulk down, and maintain style. I only know of a couple brands that bother to make their helmets absorb smaller hits too, such as to prevent mild concussions, notably Kali and Scott. The standard helmet tests focus mainly on hits that would cause death or severe brain damage.


Correct. More info here if anyone wants it.


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## root (Jan 24, 2006)

I was browsing info on the certifictions, not entirely true. I recall coming across something where skate helmets need to pass a multi impact rating? But I didn't see anything in any bike helmet category, so those wont unless it says so. I also have a snowboard helmet that specifically stated its multi impact. 
Motorsports SA has something about that too, but that's getting outside the category.
But really that's multi impact per single event. If I had an event that causes significant impact I would replace it even if the helmet is multi impact. 
My riding buddy went to see dr a few months ago after a seemingly minor incident at home (knocking heads with dog, of all things) and started experiencing small but persistent symptoms like headache and memory loss. Mild concusion, scan didn't show anything significant. But Dr told him its cumulative so I'm sure all the past knocks snowboarding contributed. Worth it to have a helmet in good condition.



OldManBike said:


> Some more info in this older thread.
> 
> OP, the answer to your question is that if a helmet is designed to be multi-impact it will say so. It is a helmet-by-helmet thing, not an all-category thing, even for dirtjump helmets but especially for DH helmets.


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## Ipe (Jan 28, 2014)

Some POC helmets use an EPP foam inside the shell. Read more about it here. As I read it this means that some of their helmets are good for multiple impacts.

While this is awesome, its no good for me as when I tried on some POC full face helmets none of them fit right. I was a bummed


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## MadPainterGrafx (Oct 3, 2014)

Idk about the EPP foam or the ratings on certain helmets to be "multiple impact". I have been an avid motorcyclist/cyclist for many many years and I have not seen this claim. I'm not saying it isn't out there but like someone else stated is $100-$400 worth spending to save you from more expensive bills down the road. The rule of thumb is that if you crashed hard enough to ring your bell or worse the helmet is done however I go further then this because I value my melon and any decent impact to the helmet I'll replace it. Another thing is don't hang your helmets on your seats or handlebars as it could damage the foam and lessen the protection. Idk if it's been mentioned before but after one of my serious crashes I was asked how fast I was going and I said that I wasn't really sure but probably no more then 20mph (this happened on a mx bike) and the doc said well you was in a high speed crash. I laughed said hell doc I've crashed going a lot faster then that. He said that according to their guidelines that any impact at over 15mph is considered a high speed impact. Idk why and we didn't get into that but if I can break my back going 20mph you can definitely ring your bell and damage a helmet enough to need it replaced. 

I might skimp on certain things but not helmets. If you crash and it leaves you wondering about if your helmet is ok I'd replace it and be sure it is good then.


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## Ipe (Jan 28, 2014)

Agreed. I've always been part of the one and done camp.

All that said, with my post above I was just saying that POC, a well respected brand of quality safety equipment, is claiming that SOME of their helmets are made with a multi-impactable material vs one-and-done EPS foam. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have this on their site if it weren't true. Liability and all that.....

TIFWIW. Its their claim, not mine.

From the POC Cortex Flow page product description (note, this is making no reference to MIPS, an entirely different technology, unfortunately with the same name):


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

Ipe said:


> Some POC helmets use an EPP foam inside the shell. Read more about it here. As I read it this means that some of their helmets are good for multiple impacts.
> 
> While this is awesome, its no good for me as when I tried on some POC full face helmets none of them fit right. I was a bummed


Yeah this is the whole problem I was referring to :

https://www.pocsports.com/en/content/view/protective-concepts#Helmet Concepts Wheels

In that one page, POC refers to both MIPS multi directional impact system, and multi impact EPP. Adding further to the confusion is that the _second_ MIPS section (there are two!) it says in parentheses 'multi impact protection system '. . . !?!? It's very easy for consumers to get confused and assume their helmet is fine after an impact.


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