# Hayes-9 brake bleeding questions



## Zell (Jul 29, 2007)

I have some Hayes 9 brakes. Lately, I've had to reach in really far to brake. It's pretty difficult to do it with one finger. A guy at a bike shop said I should fill the reservoir with more fluid. Well, I figure that if I am going to do that, I should just go ahead and bleed them completely and just change it all for some fresh fluid.

I've read in magazines that DOT 5.1 is "the best brake fluid for bikes. Period." In the Hayes bleed/fill kit, it comes with DOT 4, and I have heard from Hayes that you shouldn't use DOT 5.1 I know it's compatible with DOT 4 and 3, but is DOT 5.1 compatible with the components of the brakes? Would it be bad if I filled it up with DOT 5.1 instead of 4?

Also, is bleeding brakes hard? I have never done it before and it looks kinda complicated. Any tips or special instructions?


----------



## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

5.1 & 4 are interchangeable. Get a Hayes bleed kit, be very careful when removing & reinstalling the goofy plug. The kit comes with a squeeze bottle but you can get a syringe at your local store to make the job easier. I have always used DOT4 with great results. If you have never bleed brakes before & dont know how to use tools properly the LBS can save time & frustration. :thumbsup:

http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/pdf/BleedKit-45-14576BEnglishWeb.pdf


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

go to an auto parts store for dot 4....it will work great and is way cheaper.....use a syringe at the bottom (caliper)and one of those hayes bottles on top


----------



## freeriderB (Jan 9, 2004)

*STOP...before you bleed!*



Zell said:


> I have some Hayes 9 brakes. Lately, I've had to reach in really far to brake. It's pretty difficult to do it with one finger. A guy at a bike shop said I should fill the reservoir with more fluid. Well, I figure that if I am going to do that, I should just go ahead and bleed them completely and just change it all for some fresh fluid.
> 
> I've read in magazines that DOT 5.1 is "the best brake fluid for bikes. Period." In the Hayes bleed/fill kit, it comes with DOT 4, and I have heard from Hayes that you shouldn't use DOT 5.1 I know it's compatible with DOT 4 and 3, but is DOT 5.1 compatible with the components of the brakes? Would it be bad if I filled it up with DOT 5.1 instead of 4?
> 
> Also, is bleeding brakes hard? I have never done it before and it looks kinda complicated. Any tips or special instructions?


I've got a couple of Hayes 9 sets, and here is the thing...
If you are not leaking fluid, take an allen wrench and tighten the adjustment screw that controls the lever throw on the inside of the lever.
I think it is a 2.5mm.
They have a tendency to back out, and it causes the lever to engage later (almost near the bar). Do a 1/2 turn and squeeze...1/2 turn and squeeze...you should feel a difference immediately.

I have to do this a couple of times each ride...no big deal though, it takes 3 seconds and I carry the right size allen wrench in the fork bumper for easy access.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

ive got questions about bleeding 9's too.

I've done shimano hydro brakes (lx) before, where you fill the reservoir in the lever and pump the lever to push fluid through the system. This made sense to me, having bled car brakes heaps-o-times. The hayes instructions seem to want me to do a 'pressure bleed,' and based on my experience with cars, this is a less reliable way to do it. Can i just pump the lever like the shimano? Will it work, or is there something different in the way the hayes are set up?


----------



## mtbsince1981 (May 20, 2007)

If you have this issue, Hayes will send you a set of new adjuster bushings to fix this problem permanently. 1-888-MTN-DISC.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

1) Get a syringe
2) Fill it with Dot 4.
3) Grab the brakes and throw them into the bin,
4) Go out and buy some Avid Codes.

That is pretty much it..


Kidding kidding


----------



## coiler8 (Aug 25, 2006)

All I know is I just spent $31.98 getting my FRONT brake bled at the lbs...is this normal? Seems flippin' rediculous to me.


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

scottzg said:


> . Can i just pump the lever like the shimano? Will it work, or is there something different in the way the hayes are set up?


no you can't


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

coiler8 said:


> All I know is I just spent $31.98 getting my FRONT brake bled at the lbs...is this normal? Seems flippin' rediculous to me.


You got scammed


----------



## coiler8 (Aug 25, 2006)

I like the idea of supporting lbs and whatnot, but if they are going to charge fees such as this...do they _expect_ support? Honestly...this is not the first time I've been ripped off by this shop, but unfortunatley I dont have many options.


----------



## gop427 (Jan 16, 2006)

DOT 4 and DOT 5 are NOT interchangeable. DOT 5 exists for midlife crisis men. Let me explain, DOT 5 is silicone based and is the least hydroscopic, meaning, least likely to absorb moisture. DOT 5 was created for brake systems in cars that don't get driven. Like corvettes, porsches, shelbys etc. DOT 4 has DOT 5 beat for boiling point though, by a good bit too. You can put in DOT 5 but once you do, you should continue using DOT 5. You can go up but it is advised to not go backwards. Many will tell, you they've done it or their college roomates cousins friend did it with no probs. But use the advice of the engineer that designed your brakes, DOT 4. the best choice with you brakes. However, if you just stare at your bike and don't ride it, by all means use DOT5


----------



## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

Also, remember to turn that litttle 2.5" brake lever screw all the way out, making the brake lever depress all the way in. That way you can get as much fluid in their as possible. If, for some reason, you get too much in, just open the bottom cap and let the eccess fluid come out. 

the serenge you need is in the store isile where all the cooking utencils are. Look for the food injector, looks like a big hyperdermic shot without the needle. This thing holds lots of fluid. The hayes kit is GARBAGE!!!! I cannot stress it enough.. the only thing its good for is for the specific fittings you need to bleed the brake. 

 If anyone is having trouble bleeding hayes El Camino's, its because they have an "S" bend in the master cylinder which actually traps air bubbles in their no matter how much fluid you push though. turn them up side down and ding the hell out of em with a screw driver or something while you're flushing them. I just spent two days bleeding my rear one, until my lbs finally told me that... a painful and time consuming experience I wouldn't wish upon anyone, hence why I'm telling you all now.

Oh, and I had to pay 30.00 per brake from a bike shop back when I was a new-be... trust me, do it yourself.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

gop427 said:


> DOT 4 and DOT 5 are NOT interchangeable. DOT 5 exists for midlife crisis men. Let me explain, DOT 5 is silicone based and is the least hydroscopic, meaning, least likely to absorb moisture. DOT 5 was created for brake systems in cars that don't get driven. Like corvettes, porsches, shelbys etc. DOT 4 has DOT 5 beat for boiling point though, by a good bit too. You can put in DOT 5 but once you do, you should continue using DOT 5. You can go up but it is advised to not go backwards. Many will tell, you they've done it or their college roomates cousins friend did it with no probs. But use the advice of the engineer that designed your brakes, DOT 4. the best choice with you brakes. However, if you just stare at your bike and don't ride it, by all means use DOT5


XSWILL will hopefully chime in again. They are talking about DOT 5*.1* which is not silicone based. For example my Juicys will take in DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 but almost no brake on the MTB market will use DOT 5.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> no you can't


thx!


----------



## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

scottzg said:


> ive got questions about bleeding 9's too.
> 
> I've done shimano hydro brakes (lx) before, where you fill the reservoir in the lever and pump the lever to push fluid through the system. This made sense to me, having bled car brakes heaps-o-times. The hayes instructions seem to want me to do a 'pressure bleed,' and based on my experience with cars, this is a less reliable way to do it. Can i just pump the lever like the shimano? Will it work, or is there something different in the way the hayes are set up?


It is a sealed system so there is no reservoir to store the fluid like a car or moto. Bleeding backwards is a old method just not as well known as the conventional bleed through the caliper. :thumbsup:

Hayes 9's need a special adapter at the master for the flush hose to go onto. You might be able to go the the LBS & get one from a tec if he has a few spares otherwise you need to buy the Hayes bleed kit. You can get clear hose from the local pet store, air pump tubing is awesome!! Syringe from the drug dealer, kidding, grocery store has them in the baby or cooking tool's sections. Rotate the master cylinder so it is facing up, you want the bleed plug to be the highest part so the bubbles have no where to go but up & out. Install the adapter where the plug was & run a hose to a catch tank mounted someplace. Put a short section of hose onto the syringe & fill with DOT 4 or 5.1, be sure to burp the air & install to caliper bleeder. Make sure to loosen the bleeder to allow the fluid to go through. Slowly inject the fluid through the master till it comes out clean at the master. Taping on the hose & fittings helps loosen bubbles, you can also squeeze the lever & check pressure. If all feels good tighten caliper bleed & remove syringe, remove adapter & hose, carefully reinstall plug. :cornut::cornut:

Clean any mess with water & ride. :thumbsup:


----------



## mtbsince1981 (May 20, 2007)

"If anyone is having trouble bleeding hayes El Camino's, its because they have an "S" bend in the master cylinder which actually traps air bubbles in their no matter how much fluid you push though. turn them up side down and ding the hell out of em with a screw driver or something while you're flushing them."

Time to find a new shop or read the manual. The brake is bled in the standard position on the handlebar. No need to rotate it on the bar at all. Most bleed problems are due to incorrect mc position and not pulling the fluid from the caliper. If all you are doing is pushing fluid through you'll have air in the brake.


----------



## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

mtbsince1981 said:


> Time to find a new shop or read the manual. The brake is bled in the standard position on the handlebar. No need to rotate it on the bar at all. Most bleed problems are due to incorrect mc position and not pulling the fluid from the caliper. If all you are doing is pushing fluid through you'll have air in the brake.


What are you talking about??? Have you ever bleed a Hayes 9 or Mag?? Have you ever bleed a brake?????


----------



## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

Yeah, I have to agree with Dogonfr, I don't think you have the slightest F***'n idea what you're talking about guy, maybe you need to read the manual! If you keep your brake in the normal position, all the fluid will spill out!!!!!, and I don't know what else you were talking about, but whatever... maybe you're talking about shimano levers, you don't have to move those to bleed em... but other than that, I have no idea what else your implying.


----------



## MattyBoyR6 (Sep 18, 2004)

If you want to save some cash don't get the Hayes kit. A friend & I did a great bleed using a new clean mustard/catchup type bottle, some fish tank air hose, and Dot 4 fluid all from the local Wal-Mart for about $4 total.


----------



## mtbsince1981 (May 20, 2007)

Yes David I know what I'm talking about. The quote in my post was about the El Camino and yes it is bled in the normal position on the handlebar. 

Randy
(no Strokers for you)


----------



## Flat tyres (Nov 6, 2006)

I suggest learning to work on your bike. Brakes are easy after the first couple trys, in the long run you'll save some $$.


----------



## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

Just buy Hopes!!!!!


----------



## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

mtbsince1981 said:


> Yes David I know what I'm talking about. The quote in my post was about the El Camino and yes it is bled in the normal position on the handlebar.
> 
> Randy
> (no Strokers for you)


You were off on a different topic, started on 9's went to El Camino. :thumbsup:

What happened to you???
Allready figured that.


----------



## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

mtbsince1981 said:


> Yes David I know what I'm talking about. The quote in my post was about the El Camino and yes it is bled in the normal position on the handlebar.
> 
> Randy
> (no Strokers for you)


 YES, it is SUPPOSE to be bled in the norm, but often times cannot. My advise was for when the NORMAL POSITION fails ( and it will with some people) hence why I stated if you are having trouble, this might be a solution. It shouldn't be a problem with the new brakes because they got rid of the S bend flow design for the NEW El Camino levers, and replaced it with the straight shot like all their othe brakes. Hopefully you have the NEW ones...


----------



## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Gravity Assist said:


> YES, it is SUPPOSE to be bled in the norm, but often times cannot. My advise was for when the NORMAL POSITION fails ( and it will with some people) hence why I stated if you are having trouble, this might be a solution. It shouldn't be a problem with the new brakes because they got rid of the S bend flow design for the NEW El Camino levers, and replaced it with the straight shot like all their othe brakes. Hopefully you have the NEW ones...


mtbsince1981 has pleanty of experiance with Hayes brakes, took me awhile to relize he used to travel the Hayes Circus for many years. Stay cool Randy & email me if you get time. :thumbsup:


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> XSWILL will hopefully chime in again. They are talking about DOT 5*.1* which is not silicone based. For example my Juicys will take in DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 but almost no brake on the MTB market will use DOT 5.


You got it. DOT 5 and 5.1 are different. DOT 5.1 is glycol based like DOT 3 and 4. DOT 5 is silicone based, is incompatible with seals, and will make the brake feel like crap on top of it all. It's usually blue in color. AVOID DOT 5. DOT 5.1 is a-ok.

DOT 5 is usually used in government vehicles or show cars. It takes a beating, doesn't absorb water, and does not damage paint.


----------

