# 700C x 23 vs. 700c x 25



## CommuterGene (Jul 28, 2010)

I have always used 23s on my commuter but I was wondering how much more comfort am I going to get out of the 25s and will it be worth the slower speeds? If you guys could help me out with this that would be great.

Gene


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

As a commuter with* varying weight, rolling 25 miles of differing surface (occasional pot hole), and riding it at night much*, the minimal but extra rubber is welcomed- I won't go lower than 25mm for better cornering too...
The 23 is noticeably- definitely more harsh and plus the necessity to stay at/near a non-pinching high pressure. I say at least 25, and enjoy the roll that much more. (I also don't have to hit it with a pump almost each time as I have more lead way with greater psi range to head out.

Unladen (or not), the 25s are still fast as heck, and not put off keeping pace with a svelte training rider on the way home on occasion.


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

double post, pardone








Narrowed comparison between OP's two tire sizes


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

To each, his own. I was 185 and riding really great streets on 25 mm tires. I now ride a 32 in back and a 28 in front, the surfaces and my butt demand it. If you are a lot lighter that helps a lot.

Sheldon Brown thought commuting longer distances (>10 miles one way) or touring on less than 28 mm was dumb the tradeoff isn't worth the trouble.

Rivendell has this article: http://www.rivbike.com/article/components/tires.

Go ahead, fit the largest tires you can. There are some great light weight ones.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm kind of a racer kid about how I set up three of my bikes.

On my commuter, though, I have a 1-1/8" tire and a 26mm tire (mismatched 700C and 27" wheels.) Bigger than 1-1/4" is starting to lose the advantages of a road bike, I think, but I like to have more than 23mm when I'm carrying loads and mainly riding on worse pavement.

If you have to go to a lower thread count to go bigger, it may no longer be worth it. IMHO, a lot of the comfort of a road tire has to do with tpi. Lower pressures are possible without starting to have a lot of rolling resistance.


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

23mm is just not for me. 25 is getting better. 28s are what I happily ride on my commuter.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

not much.


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

2mm


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Do yourself a favour, get a bit more work, but a much nicer ride and get some 32mm+ tyres and use. I run 38 City Slickers on my commuter/road bike which is a rigid Karate Monkey and it works fine, even for the roads rides I occasionally do and sure is a hell of a lot more comfy on our rough roads.


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## dixie whiskey (Jul 25, 2010)

I’ll throw out another assumable mediocre comparison with 25 vs. 28. I am currently running stock 25 tires on my commuter and I really like the way these ride – smooth & fast. I want to eventually get some puncture resistant tires like the Armadillos or similar. The Nimbus tires only come in 28, so I wonder if I will lose much in way of speed. Granted the Nimbus 28’s are fairly light (around 430g). But I could just easy stick with the 25’s and go to Spec’s Armadillo All Condition tires.

I’m probably over-thinking the differences between 25 & 28 as others have noted with the 23-25. But since I am mainly inclined to upgrade tires for the puncture resistant factor, I just wanted to note if there were any notable differences speed-wise bet. 25-28. I would think handling wise (ground absorption) the 28’s would be the obvious softer/better ride.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Puncture resistance is a funny issue.

People who primarily ride long distances on suburban and country roads don't want punctures either, and a flat in a race would be a total bummer. So many training/racing tires actually have pretty good puncture protection too. I've done well with the Conti GP4000s on my road bike; the Vredestein Fortezza TriComp I had for a while did pretty well too. I think that the high thread count actually helps with punctures, although it may not with slashes, and the puncture protection belt is actually pretty good too (both tires I mention.)

It's a little trickier with tires in that class because the manufacturers compete with each other on weight and rolling resistance too, but with a little research I think it's possible to have a tire that's light, rolls well, and doesn't get a lot of flats. The biggest reasons my commute bike doesn't have those tires are that I don't like to spend much money on it and one of the wheels has a 27" rim.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*You'll*



CommuterGene said:


> I have always used 23s on my commuter but I was wondering how much more comfort am I going to get out of the 25s and will it be worth the slower speeds? If you guys could help me out with this that would be great.
> 
> Gene


notice less deflection and better roll over from objects on the surface and from surface irregularities. I thought the rolling resistance between the 23s and 25cs was barely noticable as long as i maintained the same psi between the two.

Now im on 28c panaracer tservs on the CX bike and really like um.


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## dixie whiskey (Jul 25, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Puncture resistance is a funny issue.
> 
> People who primarily ride long distances on suburban and country roads don't want punctures either, and a flat in a race would be a total bummer. So many training/racing tires actually have pretty good puncture protection too. I've done well with the Conti GP4000s on my road bike; the Vredestein Fortezza TriComp I had for a while did pretty well too. I think that the high thread count actually helps with punctures, although it may not with slashes, and the puncture protection belt is actually pretty good too (both tires I mention.)
> 
> It's a little trickier with tires in that class because the manufacturers compete with each other on weight and rolling resistance too, but with a little research I think it's possible to have a tire that's light, rolls well, and doesn't get a lot of flats. The biggest reasons my commute bike doesn't have those tires are that I don't like to spend much money on it and one of the wheels has a 27" rim.


Noted.

I was leaning towards 'puncture resistant' in the realm of Gator Skins or Armadillo after hearing of 1000s of miles of puncture-free commuting. The stock tires that came on my Redline 925 are Kenda tires (model unknown). So far so good with these, but I feel like a time bomb riding them waiting for them to puncture with random glass and trash I occasionally run upon. So I was just looking to beef up protection. I'll probably just scan the local shops for some variation of puncture resistant 28's and be done with it.

Thanks for the input.


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## wunderkind (Aug 11, 2009)

25mm is better for commuting. Slightly more comfortable. You will not lose any speeds. It is commuting after all and not TDF. Also fatter tires are more tolerant to road imperfections and debris than high pressure thinner tires.
The only limiting factor you should consider is clearance of your road bike's brakes and frame.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

dixie whiskey said:


> Noted.
> 
> I was leaning towards 'puncture resistant' in the realm of Gator Skins or Armadillo after hearing of 1000s of miles of puncture-free commuting. The stock tires that came on my Redline 925 are Kenda tires (model unknown). So far so good with these, but I feel like a time bomb riding them waiting for them to puncture with random glass and trash I occasionally run upon. So I was just looking to beef up protection. I'll probably just scan the local shops for some variation of puncture resistant 28's and be done with it.
> 
> Thanks for the input.


I know this is going to depend on the person's area, but my roads are really trashed, though not too much glass. I ran 23mm Serfas (I just put a 25mm in the front) and cheap 23mm bontragers for thousands of miles of commuting and I think I've only had 1-2 flats. I'm a bigger guy and I tend to do drops off curbs at speed. I do go over my tires once a week and regularly pull out glass shards that I pick up when it gets wet (8 months of the year....). I think the Serfas run nice and are 20 a tire.


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## dixie whiskey (Jul 25, 2010)

Before this thread drops off of view, anyone have any recommendations for light 700x28 commuter tires (puncture resistant, etc). I know, probably been asked and thousand times over. I was pretty much sold on the Spec Armadillo Nimbus but they have been back-ordered for months and no one seems to know when the 28s will be available so I might need a viable replacement. They were fairly expensive anyhow but seemed to have some nice features with the tread pattern and the reflective strip on the side walls. I have heard good things on the Conti Gator Skins also.

My commute isn’t too awful, but I do see occasional glass and trash. I’m running my stock Kendas around 100ish, so far so good with them – they actually bite decent on damp roads which seems occur quite often here in the swamp.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Depends on budget.

If I wasn't thinking about that, I'd probably go for the Continental Grand Prix 4-season. It's based on the previous version of my favorite road tire, but available in 28mm, and it has an extra layer of puncture protection that wraps around the sidewall.

Honestly, I'd probably like it better without that. But whatever.


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## wunderkind (Aug 11, 2009)

I run Armadillo All Conditions. They have been real good. My commute route is a mixed of unpaved MUPs, crummy condition industrial road and regular street. These Specialized tires haven't disappoint. The thread design prevents it from picking up any debris too. Me likey!


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## Tom93R1 (Jan 26, 2005)

I have been running the Serfas Seca 700x28 on the rear of my commuter for about 500 miles so far and have had good luck. Have same size tire from Forte (Performance bicycle) in the front, when it finally dies I will replace with the Serfas. I regularly ride through an area that has goat head thorns and I don't spend much time avoiding the road debris, mostly just plow right over and no flats on the Serfas yet. It was $24 at REI and so far I am quite happy with it.


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## PBateman (Jun 10, 2010)

700x32 here and wouldn't want smaller on Denver's fine commuter roads!


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## TunicaTrails (Jun 29, 2009)

I ride Continental Gatorskin 28mm slicks on rough country back roads and highways, 16 miles one-way, 24 the other in my normal, longest route. That includes at least one mile of gravel and up to six depending on the route. 

Before that I used Specialized Nimbus Armadillos for a year until the tread came unglued. The Nimbus Armadillos had a little bit of inverted tread which helped on gravel and wet dirt roads but may have shortened their life. The Gatorskins are less expensive too.

I really would be out of luck with anything less durable, with less volume, out here. Mountain bikes are too slow. 32mm kevlar slicks would be interesting. Today I rode with a 35mm tire/cyclocross wheel because I broke the front hub on my road wheelset. The tires are definitely slower that big, but it's also the tread, and they sure give more control.


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

I've commuted on Bontrager Race Lite Hardcase 700x28 tripple puncture protection tires for well over 3000km, with only one flat. 

The flat was caused by a small staple. I did not notice the flat until the next morning. I have to say I was disappointed though. It seems no tire is totally immune to punctures.

Rolling resistance is fine. Wear is great. Traction in the rain is poor. Ride comfort is not great compared to less puncture resistant tires. Weight is fine for commuting purposes.


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## CommuterGene (Jul 28, 2010)

I was looking over my bike the other day and among other problems I found, I can't clear 28s, just up to 25s. I am thinking about getting the Conti 4 Seasons in 25.

Gene


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## TunicaTrails (Jun 29, 2009)

That's true, most road bikes with standard brakes can't clear 28s or higher. I imagine most of us riding them have a touring or cyclocross frame with cantilever brakes.










You can get "long reach" brakes for road bikes but that again is a part that's specific to the frame.



CommuterGene said:


> I was looking over my bike the other day and among other problems I found, I can't clear 28s, just up to 25s. I am thinking about getting the Conti 4 Seasons in 25.
> 
> Gene


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## CommuterGene (Jul 28, 2010)

The brake itself is not the problem, the brake mount, the piece the break attaches to is too low for a 28c tire.

Gene


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Runnning a classic Chromo 27" sport/light touring frame. Converted to 700C and I can just squeeze Michelin City 35 mm (33mm wide 31 mm tall, about 600 gm) actual under the fenders (4-5 mm clearance, if you get the fenders pulled up as far as you can). Now using Panracer TourGuard folding 32mm (about 300 gm) have maybe 500 miles with them and happy so far. 

If the stays and fork are wide enough and the BB high enough, a 700C to 650B conversion gives lots of air volume.


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## wunderkind (Aug 11, 2009)

CommuterGene said:


> The brake itself is not the problem, the brake mount, the piece the break attaches to is too low for a 28c tire.
> 
> Gene


You have the same problem as me. So I went with 25mm instead. No biggie actually. I find the 28mm seem to look like balloon tires when mounted on the slim road wheels.


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## woodway (Dec 27, 2005)

You won't notice the difference between a 23c and 25c tire. Go for the wider tire. I run 25c Ultra Gatorskins on my commute. 3335 miles on my current set without a flat. Of course now that I said that, I will probably flat on the way home tonite.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I went from a 28c to a 2.35" for my commuter. I notice the difference.


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

heres me rolling on 25's


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

I've been commuting on 25mm Gatorskins for probably 5 years now without a single flat. For me, flat protection is the most important feature of a commuting tire. When these wear out, I'll be looking for a 28mm tire with great flat protection.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Y'all don't have goatheads where you live.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Haha, I Should Hope So!*



CommuterBoy said:


> I went from a 28c to a 2.35" for my commuter. I notice the difference.


After racing for 2+ weeks on 19mm tires my commute on 23mm felt like I was rolling on 2+inchers

23 to 25mm isnt too noticable a change. 28mm starts feeling slow and squishy to me.
Riding 32mm tires on my cyclocross bike for the winter is like riding with a parachute on. I try to avoid usind those wheels as long as I can.


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