# Thorn/Brush Clearing Suggestions



## Mike Aswell (Sep 1, 2009)

I am building a trail on my own property and most of the trail is single track through the woods. However, there is one area on my property where the former owner had cut wider paths long ago through a thorny thicket, for lack of a better word. This section of the property is not wooded and these paths are now fairly over grown with thorny underbrush. 

I can tie these sections into my single track trail to add some distance and man made features with less effort than building single track in the woods (I am thinking) since the paths are already there.

Short of a brush hog, does anyone have any advice or suggestions for the best way to clear back this type of brush? I would like to do it right, because if I just trim it, it will need re-trimmed year after year. Its tough to get at the roots to dig out because they are fairly mature bushes (i.e. very large and thorn filled).

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks.


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

If you can afford to rent a mini skid steer (Ditch Witch Sk500 or 650, preferably, though a Toro Dingo or Vermeer can work,) you can use it to scrape off the top layer of organic matter and pop the roots. Be light on the land; you can do more damage and cause severe drainage issues if you dig too deep.

D


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Digging out the roots whether by hand or machine is going to be your best bet. That being said, the best non-mechanized way to trim brush up to about 3/4" thick that I have found is a scythe with a brush blade (shorter than the blade you would normally see). I'm the only builder I know who uses one. 

It will cut a path 4 feet wide about a half an inch high. An aluminum handled scythe is very light to carry and makes no noise. It will also scoop out the cut brush and toss it a long way.

I've raced people using gas powered hedge trimmers and weed eaters with blades. The scythe is way faster.


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*post a photo?*

Hey trailninja, I gotta coattail onto this thread.
could you post a photo of that scythe please?

We've got an upcoming trimming nightmare. A total of 1.5 miles of clearcut (by a tornado) that will be sprouting raspberry and blackberry plants next Spring. Trees sprout up fast too.

Right now we are using line trimmers for half a mile (with rain the plants grow fast!). Adding another mile by Spring we are wondering what will be the most efficient method to keep the trail open/clear/weed free.

The line trimmers use a lot of line (and the little trees tear 'em up), the spinning blades types wind up with plant debris. We are wondering about the Stihl combi system and adding a hedge trimmer attachment or a power scythe attachment. But your tool sounds interesting.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Roundup® Poison Ivy Plus Tough Brush Killer...cut when dead.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

This is similar to the one I have. You can buy shorter blades which I found easier to use. The long blade cuts a bigger swath but they can get caught on hidden stumps and such in thick brush.

You can stand on the trail and cut brush 4' away from the trail.

They are perfect for blackberry. We have a ton of it here. You can cut it and then use the scythe to drag it out of the way. It will drop brush 6' away from the trail.

No gas, no noise, no moving parts except for you.

Try a farm supply or gardening supply store.


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## Mike Aswell (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Dburatti, I have not priced a 1-2 day rental, but my guess is that it would be out of my budget. My wife is happy that I am undertaking this project b/c she will bike/walk the trail as well, but she would prefer I use sweat equity rather than cash.

The scythe seems like a good low cost option.

I wondered about Round Up then clearing but I was somewhat concerned about what impact it might have on other plants, trees etc. nearby that I really don't want to kill/harm. Is it relatively safe in that respect? I know some of the variations of Round Up pretty much kill everything they contact and can run off in rain.

Thanks again, everyone. Thus far (the single track wooded section) building my own trail has been a great learning process, fun and back breaking.


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## GhisalloWheels (Oct 30, 2007)

Round is likely to kill everything you spray it on. Even if it is listed as Ivy Killer. If the active ingredient is glyphosphate only spray it on what you want dead.

If I were doing this I would use the scythe first and cut the shrubbery to ground level. Then over the next few months, walk the trail with some round up and shoot the unwanted plants as they sprout from the roots.


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## Glynis27 (Sep 28, 2007)

Trail Ninja said:


> This is similar to the one I have. You can buy shorter blades which I found easier to use. The long blade cuts a bigger swath but they can get caught on hidden stumps and such in thick brush.
> 
> You can stand on the trail and cut brush 4' away from the trail.
> 
> ...


I too prefer non-powered tools. They are generally lighter, use no gas, don't produce heat, vibration or noise and are frequently quicker. I was looking at those cutters you swing like a golf club to clear the trail corridor, but all the ones I have seen seem very flimsy. Anything more than grass would likely break them. A scythe sounds like just what I need, but I haven't seen one for sale anywhere. I'll need to look harder.

For big groups of thorns, we cut the base with a gas trimmer and metal blade. We pull the bush out with a long metal dirt rake and move it aside. Once you are done cutting and clearing all the thorns, you just have the stumps. Most of the time I chop them out with my Rogue 55A. I keep mine super sharp and it cuts through those roots like they are nothing. 
Good luck.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Glynis27 said:


> I too prefer non-powered tools. They are generally lighter, use no gas, don't produce heat, vibration or noise and are frequently quicker. I was looking at those cutters you swing like a golf club to clear the trail corridor, but all the ones I have seen seem very flimsy. Anything more than grass would likely break them. A scythe sounds like just what I need, but I haven't seen one for sale anywhere. I'll need to look harder.


http://www.americantrails.org/resources/info/tools3.html

Take a look at the grass whip with the bow to the handle. That will do the trick. It won't clear as large an area as the scythe but it's a lot lighter and easier to carry.

On that same page you'll see a brush hook that looks like the perfect tool for the job. It is, but you need to be 300 pounds of solid muscle to use one for any length of time.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I've cut trails through dense multiflora rose thickets before. First, I go at them with a machete to trim them down. Then I grub up the roots with a mattock or pulaski. Be sure to refill the hole when you're done. Wear heavy gloves. :-D


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## Glynis27 (Sep 28, 2007)

Trail Ninja said:


> http://www.americantrails.org/resources/info/tools3.html
> 
> Take a look at the grass whip with the bow to the handle. That will do the trick. It won't clear as large an area as the scythe but it's a lot lighter and easier to carry.
> 
> On that same page you'll see a brush hook that looks like the perfect tool for the job. It is, but you need to be 300 pounds of solid muscle to use one for any length of time.


Yeah, that is one of the ones I was looking at. The one I looked at had very thin looking supports that I could imagine bending after just one day. Maybe I will give one a shot and reinforce it if it breaks. The scythe looks a bit pricey for me.

I also looked at the brush hook. That is a scary looking tool, which makes me want it, but not sure it would be worth carrying along with a 55A, machete and pruners. Would be too much overlap. Besides, I'm all of 145lbs.


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## Tim allan (Sep 6, 2009)

just go buy a bush axe...then spray the stumps with some sort of weed killer...I use a bushaxe for cutting line at my job (surveying) and its a multi use tool..


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## icecreamjay (Apr 13, 2004)

I'm always looking for a better way to cut brush, the scythe is very interesting to me, but as I was checking them out I saw the seymour brush cutters. Has anyone tried one of these?

http://www.seymourmfg.com/product_detail_page.cfm?id=1794504912

It looks pretty beefy, and is cheaper than the scythe. I've currently been using an old echo weedwhacker with the brush cutter conversion blade on it. Its the type with a harness and 2 handles in front of you. It works OK, but has trouble cutting smaller flexible stems. I usually have to make a second pass with a string weedwhacker to get the little stuff. Something quieter and just as effective (or even more effective?) would be awesome.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

There you go. A grass whip on steroids. If it's good metal, it certainly looks like it would work. 

It will take more effort to use than a scythe. The shape of the scythe has been honed over thousands of years to where it takes very little effort to cut with it. 

The WE-40 brush cutter would be less cumbersome to carry, you could probably stuff it into a backpack. It looks like it may be able to cut thicker material than a scythe.

I wouldn't mind trying one out. I couldn't find a price on the site.


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## redriderbb (Aug 30, 2005)

*The other mechanized way*

Old road beds can be nasty to deal with, but an easy way to get some miles. I would suggest buying a DR mower, as a property owner you will love everything this little beast can do. Then buy a nice tiller, till up the singletrack line and remove all of the roots and organic with a garden rake and hoe. Then simply ride the heck out of the line to compact it. Finally, you can intermittently mow the corridor a few times during the season to keep the thorns at bay.

Good Luck,
Ben


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## ortedd (Jan 14, 2008)

Once you have established a clear trail bed, for thicker woody brush a gas hedge trimmer works well. I have used one on salal, which is a little to thick and tough to cut with a weed whip (my preferred weapon of choice due to weight and reliability) Yes the end bends, but it is easy to unbend and one of these days I will replace that thin strapping with something much beefier. . . .Yeah one of these days . . .


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## can't get right (May 15, 2005)

This is what I use. The Truckman Demo Axe.









I had it lying around and it clears desert bushes like butta.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

*Going for it!*



Trail Ninja said:


> Digging out the roots whether by hand or machine is going to be your best bet. That being said, the best non-mechanized way to trim brush up to about 3/4" thick that I have found is a scythe with a brush blade (shorter than the blade you would normally see). I'm the only builder I know who uses one.
> 
> It will cut a path 4 feet wide about a half an inch high. An aluminum handled scythe is very light to carry and makes no noise. It will also scoop out the cut brush and toss it a long way.
> 
> I've raced people using gas powered hedge trimmers and weed eaters with blades. The scythe is way faster.


Resurrecting an old thread, I took TN's advice and just went out and bought a scythe. The section of trail I'm starting work on has some sections that traverse raspberry, blackberry, and some kind of thorn tree. My club's going to buy a gas-powered hedge trimmer, but not immediately. Also, it's needed even more in another park.

I'll post up again in a few weeks after I've had a chance to try it.

Today I learned that a scythe handle is called a "snath". Not a word that has come up much in my life!

Walt


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

I purchased a scythe with a 16" brush blade from a local farm equipment supplier and gave it a try today. I've never used one before. The scythe with aluminum handle is amazingly light. In particular, the blade felt awfully light for something I planned to drive hard into saplings.

I arrived at the end of the trail about 11 AM and worked until about 12:30. The scythe felt awkward in my hands and really didn't seem to cut all that well. In particular, small weeds just seemed to bend over as I swiped at them. To be fair, it's very early in the year and there are no leaves out yet. I bet this tool works better with some top mass on the weeds.

I ate a quick lunch and while I was eating took a look ahead. Just beyond where I stopped there was a very overgrown ravine bank. Loads of raspberry and blackberry laced around a bunch of saplings. There was no room to swing the scythe.

But I found that if I pushed the blade into the weeds, then pulled it back against the weed stems like a saw, they would cut just fine. A few minutes later, a path through the bank appeared like magic. Saplings up to 1/4 inch diameter cut easily, and I can whack through a 1/2 inch stem.

The scythe cuts small stuff fairly well if you start near the ground. You might think that the blade would become dull very quickly from striking rocks and heavy sticks, but the pulling action guided by the odd handle shape results in a trajectory that moves up and away from ground debris. The pulling motion is far more controlled than a swing. I feel confident that I'm not going to whack myself which is a good thing given that wicked blade.

Cutting raspberry canes that grow low to the ground and in toward the trail from outside is still a challenge. This tool requires the user to walk around the weeds to get the best angle for a cut. That definitely reduces productivity, but the light weight of the tool makes it bearable at least.

The scythe blade that I was worried about held up well to the hard use I put it through today. 

I'd call it a pretty darn good tool for the money. I have not used a gas-powered hedge trimmer so I can't give a comparison. It's definitely better than a string trimmer in the woods (string catches on seedling trees and breaks) and faster than a trimmer with a blade. It has difficulty with trees over 1/2 inch in diameter though, at least in my hands.

Walt


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

I'm compelled to set the record straight about scythes.

Almost everything I said about using them properly is wrong!

I started reading about them last night and found that they are indeed designed to be swung, not pulled.






Content Warning: the intrawebs are full of latter-day barefoot hippie types laying about themselves with scythes and pontificating about their connection with nature, the superiority of hand tools vs. noisy machines, etc.

I also thought the purpose of peening the blade was to flatten out distortions caused by catching the thin scythe edge on woody plants. Instead, the already thin blade must be taken even thinner so it may be easily honed by hand out in the field to maintain it's razor edge.

If you Google "scythes sharpening" you will get 100% of your daily quota of soft spoken smugness and male facial hair.

But...

Using a scythe in the incorrect way I described earlier works really well for the problem I have: cutting a nasty mix of seedling trees, blackberry and raspberry in a hillside loaded with rocks. Using the scythe as a pull tool (instead of swinging it) mostly avoids smacking the rocks. It cuts through up to 1/4" tree seedlings easily. It destroys blackberry canes. These things are very difficult for a string trimmer, and very slow with a rotary blade.

I'm reasonably happy with my kludged way of solving my problem, but I wanted to set the record straight for people who may be facing a slightly different problem and might be confused by my incorrect assumptions.

Walt


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## TunicaTrails (Jun 29, 2009)

I have to say, there's no way that a dude in sandals swinging a scythe is faster through briars and yopaun than my Stihl FS250R with a steel cutting wheel.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

TunicaTrails said:


> I have to say, there's no way that a dude in sandals swinging a scythe is faster through briars and yopaun than my Stihl FS250R with a steel cutting wheel.


Yes, the example cutting I saw was just not what I'm aiming to do at all.

I'm not sure what kind of farm work entails cutting grass by hand, but it's hard to believe these people are serious about putting up animal feed.

Walt


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

Goats.  We have a horrible mix of autumn olive, multiflora rosa, black/red raspberry cane, poison ivy, honeysuckle, Japanese barberry, and bull thistle. Yeah, all in one place - go figure. My neighbor unleashed a couple of goats on this unholy alliance and cleaned it out amazingly fast.


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## TunicaTrails (Jun 29, 2009)

Wow, my aunt and uncle did the same thing on five acres from their house to their pond. Like you said, they ate the poison ivy and everything else. Amazing.

Goat-built singletrack, there's an idea. Some kind of leash line, maybe 



roxnroots said:


> Goats.  We have a horrible mix of autumn olive, multiflora rosa, black/red raspberry cane, poison ivy, honeysuckle, Japanese barberry, and bull thistle. Yeah, all in one place - go figure. My neighbor unleashed a couple of goats on this unholy alliance and cleaned it out amazingly fast.


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## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

TunicaTrails said:


> Wow, my aunt and uncle did the same thing on five acres from their house to their pond. Like you said, they ate the poison ivy and everything else. Amazing.
> 
> Goat-built singletrack, there's an idea. Some kind of leash line, maybe


We have local guy with a goat business. No joke, he brings in the goats, sets up an electric fence, comes back in a week. Your lot's weeds, garbage, whatever, gone. Haven't tried it for trails.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

TunicaTrails said:


> Wow, my aunt and uncle did the same thing on five acres from their house to their pond. Like you said, they ate the poison ivy and everything else. Amazing.
> 
> Goat-built singletrack, there's an idea. Some kind of leash line, maybe


This is pure genius! Or complete lunacy. Either way I am in awe sir, complete awe.

Walt


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Walt Dizzy said:


> This is pure genius! Or complete lunacy. Either way I am in awe sir, complete awe.
> 
> Walt


I worked for a guy who used ducks to mow his lawn. Just a round pen made of snow fence and he kept moving it around. I didn't know they ate grass.


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## TunicaTrails (Jun 29, 2009)

I like where this is going.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Last week. They never use a lawnmower & it draws tourists.


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