# Triple Seoul P4 LED Light



## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

I'm nearly finished with a new Triple Seoul Semiconductor P4 LED bike light. So tonight I went out and took a beam shot to compare it to my Triple Cree XR-E light and thought I'd share the results with you.

The light housings are identical, so if you're curious about that, go look at the thread on the Triple Cree light. Both are driven at 1Amp. The Triple Cree uses Ledil lenses while the Triple SSC P4 uses IMS-20 reflectors (2 of which I've modified to produce more spill).

The top photo is the Triple Cree, the bottom is the Triple Seoul. (same manual camera settings of course)










One thing I notice is that I did manage to get a more even spill from the Seoul setup. Notice that to the left of the tree is dark with the Cree light, while you can still see the fence with the Seoul. There are several factors at play here, since one light is using lenses (1x4, 2x9 degree) and the other is using reflectors (that were meant for Luxeon emitters).

Since I couldn't get the Seouls mounted on stars, I used emitters, which made things a little more difficult, but not impossible. 









Below is the IMS-20 reflector arrangement that I used (the front edge of the outer reflectors was sanded down).









Other notes: the SSC P4 emitters are all U-binned which are advertised to output between 91 and 118 lumens @350mA. I'm driving them at 1A which, according to the Seoul Semiconductor technical documentation, should cause them to glow at about 200 lumens (assuming my emitters are at the bottom-end of the binning range). Multiply that by 3, and it should be around a 600 lumen bike light (minus any other losses in the reflectors and/or thermal degradation).

The Triple Cree has been a great light this season. I will give the Triple Seoul a test ride or two this week and let you guys know how it works out and compares on the trail. 

*Oh yeah. I forgot to add this link to my DIY LED Bike Light Guide web site*, where you can get more info and detailed steps if you're interested in building one of these for yourself. The site is not completely finished, but it has enough info there to help you build the light.


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## Y-Wrench (Jan 9, 2007)

I'm waiting on some seoul stars to come in and will be doing a similar setup. I plan to move my current cree light to being a helmet light and put the seouls on the bars for now. Looking for a little more spill on the bars. Your setup is looking good:thumbsup:


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## etal (Jan 26, 2004)

Congrats on an very nice looking light, I'm looking forward to a more detailed comparison.
Just a question, since all your emitters share a common metal base ,how do you electrically isolate them?

Another thing you might want to consider is adding a clear lens/shield to the front of the reflectors as the SSCs 'gummy bear' dome is known to easily collect dust.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

etal said:


> Congrats on an very nice looking light, I'm looking forward to a more detailed comparison.
> Just a question, since all your emitters share a common metal base ,how do you electrically isolate them?
> 
> Another thing you might want to consider is adding a clear lens/shield to the front of the reflectors as the SSCs 'gummy bear' dome is known to easily collect dust.


Thanks.
I used a thin layer of Arctic Alumina Adhesive to attach/electrically insulate the slugs and the leads to the emitters. The leads are actually floating and not attached. I placed a razor blade under each lead as I soldered the wire. The AAA keeps the leads from shorting as well as isolating the slugs from the aluminum light body. I coated the entire mounting surface with one thin layer, let it dry, then used a small thin amount on each emitter slug to attach. Some people will say two layers are overkill, and will reduce thermal transfer. But the alternative is a short... which would result in a different kind of thermal transfer 

Yeah, I'd hate to see what the gummy bears look like after a ride with no lens cover.  The light will have a plexiglass front lens cover.

@ Y-Wrench - Thanks. Getting that perfect beam is always the trick, isn't it. There is a lot of experimentation going on with lenses and reflectors. Doing the beamshot comparison helps.... but the trail ride is the real test. Good luck with your build and be sure to share the results with us. The Crees are awesome and I'm hoping for similar results from the Seouls.


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

Wowwwww very nice light, the seoul are more bright than cree. You are my idol :thumbsup: 

What buck puck are you used?

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

msxtr said:


> Wowwwww very nice light, the seoul are more bright than cree. You are my idol :thumbsup:
> 
> What buck puck are you used?
> 
> ...


Thanks msxtr. There's definitely a different distribution of light coming from the Seouls/reflectors. I re-used an old 3021 Buckpuck (1000mA) and a pot for dimming from my Triple Luxeon III light.


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## p97z (Dec 19, 2006)

Looks nice! Why are the bare emitters harder to mount? Are they harder to center?


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## brum (Dec 19, 2004)

p97z said:


> Looks nice! Why are the bare emitters harder to mount? Are they harder to center?


They are really small, you'd have to fold up the 'legs' that you solder to and with some reflector/optics you dont want to put too much AAA on it, as it creates a edge around the emitter that makes it impossible for the optics/reflector to come down to its optimal height. Also, with a polarized slug, lots of stars have a anodized surface on the bottom, that eleminates the need for a double layer of AAA or a extra strip of ano alu.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

p97z said:


> Looks nice! Why are the bare emitters harder to mount? Are they harder to center?


What Brum said... plus you risk damaging the emitter from the heat of soldering directly to the emitter lead and the possibility of bumping the dome with a soldering gun tip (unfortunately I did this a while back). And they're just smaller and more difficult to handle.


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## p97z (Dec 19, 2006)

I guess it depends on what you are doing. When I made my helmet light (chopped flashlight), it was easier for me to mount the bare emitter then it was to mount the star. I thought the star was harder to solder but easier to center.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

I finished sealing the light up tonight with some silicone sealant. I made a lens that covers the entire front from plexiglass and sealed it in as well. Here is a photo of the light sitting on top of my helmet. As you can see, it looks pretty much identical to the Triple Cree XR-E light, except you can see there is a pot sticking out the back for dimming the light... in some ways this is more practical than the pushbutton controlled bFlex or nFlex, but the pot sticks out more than the button. Also, the bFlex/nFlex and pushbutton are easier to fit into the small case than the 3021 Buckpuck and rather large, but high quality, 5k audio taper pot. I actually had to J-B weld the two retaining brackets, that hold the front on, _after _installing the components. I will have to break the J-B Weld if I ever need to change or get to the inner parts.

The rubber grip feet and two velcro straps allows for a pretty sturdy helmet mount in just a few minutes. The light can be adjusted up and down for just the right angle and stays put by just hand tightening the bolts.










Test ride tomorrow night.


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## p97z (Dec 19, 2006)

Nice work! Let us know how it works out.

What are you using on the bars?


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

p97z said:


> Nice work! Let us know how it works out.
> 
> What are you using on the bars?


Thanks.

I'm still using my Dual Luxeon V on the bars for now. But soon I might put this light on the bars, and use the Cree on the helmet... for about 1000 lumens total... hmmm do I really need that much light? Oh, what the heck!


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## p97z (Dec 19, 2006)

Ummmm.. 1000 lumens... drool...


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## HomeGrownSS (Jan 18, 2006)

jeez with that much light you might as well ride during the day!


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## Strong like Bull (Jan 15, 2004)

Thanks for the inspiration achesalot. 

I have been waiting for the Q2 bin crees to come out (I'm not the only one.) I read on CPF that they were only going to be available sometime in the next quarter and saw that the seouls are now available on stars from photonfanatic (on CPF) so I am going to order the seouls tomorrow.

I also have a triple cree MR16 bulb (240 lumen at 350mA) on its way soon from a group buy which will replace my old halogen light which my wife will use.

Hopefully, I'll have them up and running for my southern hemisphere winter.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Strong like Bull said:


> Thanks for the inspiration achesalot.
> 
> I have been waiting for the Q2 bin crees to come out (I'm not the only one.) I read on CPF that they were only going to be available sometime in the next quarter and saw that the seouls are now available on stars from photonfanatic (on CPF) so I am going to order the seouls tomorrow.
> 
> ...


You're welcome. I've been waiting on the Q2-bin Crees as well. I wasn't too sure about the Seouls at first, but it looks like they might work out nicely. The first three I ordered from a CPF group buy were a nice white tint. I used one of them in a flashlight upgrade, then ordered a couple more from the Sandwich Shoppe. They were a little more toward the blue side of the spectrum... but not bad. So by the time I got around to building this bike light, I used two of the nice white ones, and one that was slightly blueish.

Let us know how the MR16 Cree bulb works out.


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## wookieone (Mar 21, 2006)

*you guys are killing me*

Been watching you DIY guys building these way cool lights and i want one! The problem is i don't get enough sleep as it is and i am not about to take up another hobby that requires more tools and stuff and a whole lot of intense knowledge. Cool S#%T Y'all, and if any one wants to sell one just let me know, keep it up, bless the underground!


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Wookie. Glad you're digging the "LED Bike Light Underground." Nothing for sale here at the moment, but I might get too many lights built one day, and have to sacrifice one or two  but right now, fellow riders have dibs on a couple.

I finished my first trail test ride tonight with the Triple Seoul. The light performed well. It stayed cool with no problems at an ambient temp in the low 60's F here in Florida. The light has a smaller hotspot than my Triple Cree light, but offers a little more side fill. It is quite pleasant to ride with on the helmet alone, or accentuated by my Dual Lux V handlebar light. I'm still out to lunch on whether I prefer the Triple Cree or Triple Seoul as a helmet light. Both provide a nice amount of light.

I think for my Thursday night ride, I will try the 3xSSC on the handlebar and the 3xCree on the helment for that 1000 lumen rush! 

*Oh yeah. I forgot to add this link to my DIY LED Bike Light Guide web site*, where you can get more info and detailed steps if you're interested in building one of these for yourself. The site is not completely finished, but it has enough info there to help you build the light, or something similar. Feel free to add your own improvements, modifications, or stylistic variations.


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

*achesalot* Thanks for your help and inspiration for all us  :thumbsup:

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## batvette (Dec 10, 2006)

achesalot said:


> Wookie. Glad you're digging the "LED Bike Light Underground." Nothing for sale here at the moment, but I might get too many lights built one day, and have to sacrifice one or two  but right now, fellow riders have dibs on a couple.
> 
> I finished my first trail test ride tonight with the Triple Seoul. The light performed well. It stayed cool with no problems at an ambient temp in the low 60's F here in Florida. The light has a smaller hotspot than my Triple Cree light, but offers a little more side fill. It is quite pleasant to ride with on the helmet alone, or accentuated by my Dual Lux V handlebar light. I'm still out to lunch on whether I prefer the Triple Cree or Triple Seoul as a helmet light. Both provide a nice amount of light.
> 
> ...


duuuuude! I've been watching your work and appreciating you sharing of experiences with the forum, being a flashaholic MTB'er and a tinkerer, I've been chomping at the bit to build one but don't want to do so and find I was weeks too early on the best bin.... so patient I've been. 
However may I offer some completely constructive criticism? Since this isn't commercial and you seem to be motivated by showing off your artistic "bling bling" to your friends, you probably don't realize just how simple it is to turn home depot extrusion into this:


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## batvette (Dec 10, 2006)

I'm not trying to "force" my or anyone's "style " onto you and your work, and we ARE talking about mountain biking here. You fall, you scratch things. I think you'd be a lot more satisfied with your work if you were shown what can be done with the materials you are using, and basic finishing.... AND you can shave weight if you remove material in the right areas... (how much or is it worth it to you, I dunno)
That is a RockFord Fosgate Symmetry RDAT used for car audio competitions I did in the 90's, much of the stuff I did on my cars followed that theme, and I did it in my spare bedroom workshop. Neat thing is imperfections and gaps, even screw heads that don't sit flush, if you sand them down with progressively finer grits of abrasive like Depot's waterproof metal sanding paper- start dry around 220 and finish up to 1200 wet- sort of blend in together. 
Getting a mirror finish is work but there is a very, very important thing to remember with products like mother's or (I prefer) Blue Magic: It's not a matter of polishing over and over or harder and faster. I've gotten a perfect shine then hit it one more time and had to walk away as it just got worse. There is a touch to it, a window at the very second the metal turns the polish black and just begins to feel like it's dragging as it disappears-STOP and grab that buff rag and lightly but quickly polish it off. Most people assume its's just "rub away" and more is better, but like soldering, it requires a touch and regular practice. 

I hope I haven't made a wrong assumption and you glean some inspiration from this, as I have your work.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Thanks for the tips Batvette. Nice looking work there. I've just been going for a brushed Aluminum look and admit I don't spend a whole lot of time on the final finish. I'm usually more interested in the beams coming out of the thing.

I'm not so much motivated by showing my "bling bling" (Ok maybe a little  ) as sharing information with others who have similar interests and might like to try building their own light. I hope the information takes some of the mystery out of it for others. As with your polishing, it's mostly just a lot of work and the more you put into it, the more you get out of it.

OK. Now you must build one of these lights, and show us the shining, polished result


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

*Plastic bag diffuser*

I've been playing around with materials to use as a diffuser. The Triple Seoul has pretty good side spill, but it still has a smallish, bright hotspot in the middle. It is just a little distracting while riding. I experimented with a few materials: plastic bags, wax paper etc. I found a particular plastic bag (I think from the grocery store) that is semi-opaque (you can see light, but not make things out) when you hold it up near your eyes and try to look through it, yet nearly transparent when you place it up against something like a page in a book. Sort of like wax paper, but a little more transparent.

Anyway, placing this plastic over the lens of my light causes a nice diffusion of the hotspot into something more along the lines of what I was looking for. I'll try to post some beamshots in the near future. If you have a homebuilt (or manufactured) light that is too spotty, you might wanna experiment with some plastic bags around the house that are of the nature that I described above. Plus, it doubles as a lens protector  I just attached it with some transparent tape.


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

Hi Achesalot -you are an inspiration.
I've tried the IMS20 on the Seoul with nothing off the back (you get a spot)
If you take 0.03" off you get a nice spread out beam with no spot.

How much difference does taking material off the front of the reflector make compared to a non-modded reflector?

Cheers
Dom


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

poobardog said:


> Hi Achesalot -you are an inspiration.
> I've tried the IMS20 on the Seoul with nothing off the back (you get a spot)
> If you take 0.03" off you get a nice spread out beam with no spot.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind words. 
Thanks. I'll try trimming the base of the IMS20 0.03" and see what happens (p97z had mentioned this as well). I had sanded off the front of the reflector which allowed more spill, but it still has the hotspot.

I took some beamshots lastnight. These are just against the wall at about 5 feet. I underexposed the shot to look at the hotspot only. The wall is about the color that appears in the Cree shots (top row). The left side are the diffused hotspots and the right are un-diffused. The Triple Cree is top, Seoul P4 on bottom. These shots didn't capture the full smoothing effect, instead they just make the hotspot look dimmer.









I'll try to take some outdoor shots to compare with my previous beamshots to see if it causes too much of a loss of total light.
- Allen


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

Hey Allen
Don't chop any reflectors yet!
I have both modded and unmodded ones on hand -
I will see if i can post some shots of them both tonite of a triSeoul (haven't posted pix here yet) - it's a 10min swapout. I like the modded beam much better.
The triCree i have uses modded IMS20s as well - and that is really a SPOT

Your diffusion looks as if it take a fair bit of the light away -but much better than the spot.

EDIT
I see p97z already supplied pix in his thread comparing the optic
Anyway - 1st pic is modded - r/h is unmodded IMS20 reflector










Cheers Dom


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## p97z (Dec 19, 2006)

Thanks poorbardog!

The modded sure cuts down on the hot spot. I have two IMS 20's one modded from the back 
and another modded from the front. 

The sanded IMS 20 from the front is on the left and the IMS 20 sanded from the back is on the right. Both using Seoul p4 at 1amp.


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## Lumbee1 (Dec 16, 2004)

poobardog said:


> Hey Allen
> Don't chop any reflectors yet!
> I have both modded and unmodded ones on hand -
> I will see if i can post some shots of them both tonite of a triSeoul (haven't posted pix here yet) - it's a 10min swapout. I like the modded beam much better.
> ...


I have problems with viewing angles on my thinkpad. With the pictures side by side, it is easier to see the comparison. :thumbsup:


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## Lumbee1 (Dec 16, 2004)

The Cree's typical look bluer than the LuxIII. In the photos above, the Cree's look white, while the P4's look very blue. The comparison between a P4 and LuxIII would probably be scary.

Achesalot, the triple P4 has impressive output over the triple Cree.
It looks like a huge difference in brightness between the two but I can see why.
Seoul P4 with reflectors
vs.
Cree P3 with optics.
With the lower bin and optics, brightness will be reduced.

I am going to start a handlebar light with a pair of Cree's. What other flood options are there for the Cree?

BTW, inspired by the reflectorless Cree thread, I considered packing 4 bare emitters into the head of a square tube design with 1A to each Cree


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

I took a little off the base of the reflectors, but the hotspot is still there... just a little bigger.
I have some L2 lenses (ala p97z) on order for the Seouls.

Also, the diffusion filter does help smooth out the light, but I did decide that it probably also takes too much light away.

Dom: the beam from your reflector mod looks great. Maybe I need to take a little more off.
Don't worry, I have quite a few IMS 20 reflectors laying around. 

Lumbee1Most of the Crees that I have are whiter than any Luxeons I have, except for maybe one (one Cree is a little yellow... not blue). I also got 3 nice white Seouls, and two that have a little bit of a blue tint. I've always been a reflector man myself, but lately I'm leaning more towards optics. The Ledil are just great with the Crees. I've also ordered some L2 lenses to try with Crees and work so nicely with the square aluminum tubing. Reflectors are king in flashlight land where throw is often desired, but that doesn't work as well for mountain bike riding at night, IMHO.

I've ordered two 15 degree lenses to use as a dual Cree handlebar light, but they are held up with my order of Cree XR-E Q2-bin from Cutter.


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## p97z (Dec 19, 2006)

I noticed that PhotonFanatic has some Khatod optics for sale. I'm tempted to buy a few more seouls and more optics.

I tried the Carclo optics on the Seouls and the 6 deg is real spotty and the 15 deg cuts light real bad. I had better luck with the 5 and 15 L2 for seoul.


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

The question is - what do you like better?
Optics or reflectors.
I've only seen reflectors in action.
There's obviously downsides to both -but the commercial LED lites go mainly with optics don't they?

Cheers
Dom


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## Strong like Bull (Jan 15, 2004)

Hi poobardog / Dom

Thanks for your beamshot comparison between your modified and unmodified IMS reflector. 
My first question is, what mod did you do? I have heard of taking 0.03" of the base for the SSC and also taking some off the top.
Second question: what are you using to attach the reflector? superglue?

Thanks
Roger


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

Hey Roger
It's 0.03" off the back of the reflector -overall length of reflector ends at 15.0mm or 0.590"
The reflectors are held central at the front by a cover,with slight pressure on the plastic bit around the emitter.
Hope we're not hijacking Allens thread? I suppose not -all we are looking for is the perfect combo of reflector or optic for the best beam! 
Everyone seems to be having a go at it.

Cheers
Dom


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

No prob w/ hijack. It's all the same stuff... same goal. 

I use a small glob of silicone caulk at each leg of the reflectors to attach them. That way, should I want to remove them, they pull off pretty easily. Just clean up the silicone and do it all over again.

I rode with the Triple SSC P4 again tonight. I put it on my handlebar and the Triple Cree on my helmet. Probably should have done it the other way around... since the SSC has more throw and is brighter, but it was a lot of light no matter how you look at it. 

-allen


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

poobardog said:


> The question is - what do you like better?
> Optics or reflectors.
> I've only seen reflectors in action.
> There's obviously downsides to both -but the commercial LED lites go mainly with optics don't they?
> ...


Dom, It's fairly well accepted that reflectors are generally more efficient. They are very popular with flashlights and are capable of nice tight beams that are ideal for those types of applications.

Yes, it looks like most commercial LED bike light manufacturers do go with optics. I think the main reason is that there are several manufacturers to choose from, and each offers a variety of beams and diffusions. I'm sure that reflectors could be made to offer the type of beam that bike light builders look for, but I guess it's a more limitied market. Of course, as most of us know, it's the combo of the emitter and the reflector/optic that makes the beam. For example, a Luxeon V used with an IMS 20 gives a nice even flood beam, whereas when used with a Seoul P4, it gives a spotlight beam (if unmodified).

For me personally, it's just a matter of experimentation and getting info from others here and at CPF.


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## Lev (Oct 12, 2004)

Hey, very cool stuff achesalot. I'm getting more intrigued by the minute in getting a DIY light completed. One question: How does one go about attaining the custom aluminum housing? Seems like no small task. Especially for someone who is not too keen on trying to weld metal. Thoughts?

Lev


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

poobardog said:


> Hey Allen
> Don't chop any reflectors yet!
> I have both modded and unmodded ones on hand -
> I will see if i can post some shots of them both tonite of a triSeoul (haven't posted pix here yet) - it's a 10min swapout. I like the modded beam much better.
> ...


Dom,

Nice job getting rid of the spot without damaging the overall beam quality. It looks good.


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## Lumbee1 (Dec 16, 2004)

Lev said:


> Hey, very cool stuff achesalot. I'm getting more intrigued by the minute in getting a DIY light completed. One question: How does one go about attaining the custom aluminum housing? Seems like no small task. Especially for someone who is not too keen on trying to weld metal. Thoughts?
> 
> Lev


If you have a hacksaw and 10 fingers, that's all you need. Tell your wife, mom, or girlfriend to have a first aid kit handy 

I built mine with a hacksaw, a file, and sandpaper. The debut should be coming shortly.

BTW, I have already designed another handlebar light that will be extremely small.


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

So reflectors are the way to go by the sounds of it -but not as a drop in solution just yet -like the optics.
Well -will have some of those Khatods to try soon. 

Thanks James -but i'm only climbing on the backs of giants -Don McGizmo at CPF worked out the mod amount for nice focus.

Cheers
Dom


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Lev said:


> Hey, very cool stuff achesalot. I'm getting more intrigued by the minute in getting a DIY light completed. One question: How does one go about attaining the custom aluminum housing? Seems like no small task. Especially for someone who is not too keen on trying to weld metal. Thoughts?
> 
> Lev


No welding involved. Use J-B Weld in a couple of places. Hacksaw, file, drill, Dremel tool is handy.
It just so happens that I have some instructions for building the casing at my DIY LED Bike Light web page .

- Enjoy


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Oops. 
Double post due to slow server . Sorry.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

poobardog said:


> So reflectors are the way to go by the sounds of it -but not as a drop in solution just yet -like the optics.
> Well -will have some of those Khatods to try soon.
> Dom


I've actually been having good luck with optics lately.
The Ledils and L2s are great. The L2s for Luxeons seem to work well with Seouls. (Thanks to p97z for pointing this out!)

I just stuck two 15 degrees optics on my Triple Seoul. Left one reflector in the middle. It looks terriffic. I will report after the ride tomorrow night.


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## Lev (Oct 12, 2004)

Whoops. Should have checked that first. Thanks though. And cheers on the cool design!


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

After my ride with the new L2 optics I mentioned above, I am very satisfied. I feel my beam was similar to an L&M HID. I will try to borrow a friends L&M HID soon and get some comparison shots.

P97z had mentioned that they work well with the Seoul P4... and they do. I wanted more fill, so I stuck on two of the 15 degree optics and left an IMS 20 reflector in the middle. I just love the beam. I don't have the throw I had before, but it's a much more practical beam at about 25 ft. I even felt comfortable turning off the handlebar light (this light was on my helmet).

Most of the trails I ride are singletrack and are twisty and winding, so you never really need to look much farther than 25 - 30 feet ahead. This beam gives plenty of light at that distance and provides a nice even fill.

The L2 optics are for Luxeon III LEDs (but work great with the SSC P4) and are available from ledsupply.com. If you want to experiment, you might want to order two 15s, and two 5s, that way you can see if you want more throw or more fill (2x15, 1x5) or (2x5, 1x15). They are $2 ea and don't forget to order a holder for each lens (about $0.30 ea).

- Allen


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## p97z (Dec 19, 2006)

With the IMS20 in the middle and 15’s on the side does the square tube block any of the side spill? I noticed with my cig lighter double the outside holders block some of the side spill and it’s somewhat distracting. Did you try a 5 degree in the middle instead of the IMS 20? I’m curious how it would compare…

I believe optics are the way to go for a bike light. With the Lux III’s optics blocked to much light but with Seoul’s… Optics rock!

I'm glad you like the L2's... they are also easy to mount using the holders. 

Almost forgot, don't use the holders for the K2's... they just won't work.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

p97z said:


> With the IMS20 in the middle and 15's on the side does the square tube block any of the side spill? I noticed with my cig lighter double the outside holders block some of the side spill and it's somewhat distracting. Did you try a 5 degree in the middle instead of the IMS 20? I'm curious how it would compare&#8230;
> 
> I believe optics are the way to go for a bike light. With the Lux III's optics blocked to much light but with Seoul's&#8230; Optics rock!
> 
> ...


No, I didn't notice any chopping of the beam by the square tube. The front part of my light extends about 18.5mm past the surface the LEDs are mounted to. Unfortunately, I didn't order the 5 degree (duh... I'm so stupid sometimes, I ordered 3x15) I will get one on my next order. Thanks again for turning me on to these... they do work very well with the Seouls.

I agree, the optics make up in beam control what light you might loose in the lens, and these LEDs are so bright you don't notice much loss. Putting the light where you need it is the important part. A small bright hotspot can be a little distracting, and I think it causes your pupils to close a little, making the sidespill light less effective. I still have a little bit of a hotspot (from the IMS 20) but it is not noticable on the trail. I''ll try the 5 degree in the middle when I get one.


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## p97z (Dec 19, 2006)

If you like it the way it is, don't bother messing with a 5 deg... The IMS stuck out front on my light holder so I needed something to fill in the donut hole of the 15deg.

It's funny how the optic light patterns look different with different LED's... On a K2 the Carclo's make the best pattern. On a 5W the Carclo 6 deg is a big flood but on a Seoul it's a small spot. I'm still waiting for optics for a CREE.

I don't think we are loosing any light going to optics, I think it's just being spread out.

Now that I found the right combination of LED's and optics, I think i'm done playing... Right?..


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

p97z said:


> If you like it the way it is, don't bother messing with a 5 deg... The IMS stuck out front on my light holder so I needed something to fill in the donut hole of the 15deg.
> 
> Now that I found the right combination of LED's and optics, I think i'm done playing... Right?..


Yes, I'm pretty happy with it. I don't seem to have any donut holes. Maybe the reflector beam fills that in. Plus, I'm getting a big spill (although not real bright) from the sanded down reflector front.

Actually, I am through playing with the lights until probably next fall. Tonight was probably the last regular night ride for this season (daylight savings time starts Sunday). I might get a couple more in, but with the time change and the longer days, we'll be riding in daylight. At this point, until some great new next generation (Luxeon perhaps?) LED comes along, I think I've done about the best I can with what's out there. Needless to say, I'm very pleased with where the LEDs have come in this past year (just since October 06). This Triple SSC P4 light probably edges out my Triple Cree by a hundred lumens or so (just a guesstimate).


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

Top Job Guys!
The L2 sounds the go for the Seouls -will order some of them and see how they stack up against the Khatods -when they arrive.

What is the diameter of the L2 ? Or can someone point me to the size specs? 

I was going to do similar to you Allen -except with the IMS20s -2 modded/1 standard for a bit of flood/spot. Will try this later and see what that looks like as well.

p97z -they are selling Cree optics at CPF in the "group buys and passarounds" section.
Ledil square type -lots of degree types.
And also round Cree optic in the "CPF Custom and Mod B/S/T. Not much info on these.

Might have to get some of these as well to try myself.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

poobardog said:


> Top Job Guys!
> The L2 sounds the go for the Seouls -will order some of them and see how they stack up against the Khatods -when they arrive.
> 
> What is the diameter of the L2 ? Or can someone point me to the size specs?
> ...


These are the 20mm L2 optics for Luxeon III. They actually measure 21.6 diameter with the holder. Here are the specs: http://ledsupply.com/docs/L2-Optics-Luxeon.pdf


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

I went out and did a beam shot with the added L2 lenses (2x15 degree). Same camera settings. Leaves have been raked. I think that I now have the majority of the light where I want it. It lights up that entire bush very well at around 25 feet. What do you think?










The configuration now looks like this:









Cheers,
- Allen


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

That looks excellent Allen - and the nice bit of spot provided by the IMS.
Really throws out the light!
Just have to wait for my optics and see what they look like compared the reflectors.


Cheers
Dom


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

Nice work Allen, I like the wider and smoother hotspot that the optics help to create. :thumbsup:

I always seem to have a battle between a nice wide and bright hotspot, and a nice wide flood. Both are always my goal, but you always have to sacrifice a bit of one to get the other! It’s even more of a challenge to achieve it with a nice smooth transition between spot and flood.

Most of the flashlight boys seem to think textured reflectors are the way to go to achieve a smoother beam, especially with the Seoul emitters, but those optics look pretty good judging by the beam shots! 

Keep up the great work! :thumbsup:

Dave.


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## p97z (Dec 19, 2006)

Allen - Thanks for the pictures! That looks even better then I expected.


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## Lev (Oct 12, 2004)

Hey Allen,

I was checking out your website and you have the CREE XR-E P4 bin as your recommended setup. Was wondering if that's still the case now that you are done with the SSC setup. The shots certainly look nice with those.

Also, I'm a newbie on the whole light front. I'm looking to buy some LEDs this week, and I'm wondering what the price difference is going to be between the Luxeons, CREEs, and Seouls. I know I need to do my research, but can you offer any advice on which one to go with in terms of budget and newbie considerations? Thanks very much.

-Lev


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Lev said:


> Hey Allen,
> 
> I was checking out your website and you have the CREE XR-E P4 bin as your recommended setup. Was wondering if that's still the case now that you are done with the SSC setup. The shots certainly look nice with those.
> 
> ...


Good point Lev. I guess I need to update my site.  Obviously, either Cree XR-E or Seoul P4 will make a nice light. But I would have to say that this Triple Seoul is my favorite right now. My Cree is just a P3-bin XR-E, so that's some of it... also each light has its own beam, partly due to optics. I might experiment some more with the optics for the Cree... maybe order some wider beam Ledil lenses and try making it into a handlebar light. It's hard to go wrong either way.

Don't build a Luxeon light with what's available right now. The price difference is insignificant. Cree XR-E (P4-bin) can be had for under $10 bucks and the Seoul P4 (U-bin) can be purchased for around $12 - $14 each. The main thing, no matter which you go with, is to try to get a good, white, tint. Ask about color bins if it is not advertised. Also, it's easier (for most people) to work with star MCPCBs than bare emitters ( newbie consideration  )

Regards,
- Allen


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## brum (Dec 19, 2004)

achesalot said:


> Good point Lev. I guess I need to update my site.  Obviously, either Cree XR-E or Seoul P4 will make a nice light. But I would have to say that this Triple Seoul is my favorite right now. My Cree is just a P3-bin XR-E, so that's some of it... also each light has its own beam, partly due to optics. I might experiment some more with the optics for the Cree... maybe order some wider beam Ledil lenses and try making it into a handlebar light. It's hard to go wrong either way.
> 
> Don't build a Luxeon light with what's available right now. The price difference is insignificant. Cree XR-E (P4-bin) can be had for under $10 bucks and the Seoul P4 (U-bin) can be purchased for around $12 - $14 each. The main thing, no matter which you go with, is to try to get a good, white, tint. Ask about color bins if it is not advertised. Also, it's easier (for most people) to work with star MCPCBs than bare emitters ( newbie consideration  )
> 
> ...


Both emitters (XR-E P4 - star / SSC P4 U-bin - bare) can be had for $7 shipped, through DX/Kaidomain. And stars are indeed so much easier, I've already build two lights with bare emitters so I can say I have some experience with them. It goes alright, but the stars are just easier, both to mount and to solder. The loss of light due to 'thermal' things is insignificant IMHO. It's not like our lights are going to be around the next 10 years, and the loss of light is imperceptible. My V1 helmetlight (3x XR-E P3, bare) gets hot in almost the same time as my V2.0 light (3x XR-E P4, star).


----------



## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

brum said:


> Both emitters (XR-E P4 - star / SSC P4 U-bin - bare) can be had for $7 shipped, through DX/Kaidomain. And stars are indeed so much easier, I've already build two lights with bare emitters so I can say I have some experience with them. It goes alright, but the stars are just easier, both to mount and to solder. The loss of light due to 'thermal' things is insignificant IMHO. It's not like our lights are going to be around the next 10 years, and the loss of light is imperceptible. My V1 helmetlight (3x XR-E P3, bare) gets hot in almost the same time as my V2.0 light (3x XR-E P4, star).


Cool, prices have already dropped as enough product hits the market.

Cooling is significant in the current amount of light the emitter puts out as well as its life. If you look in the Seoul documentation, you will find a chart that shows lumens dropping off as the emitter temp increases beyond 25 C. Rated output is at 25 C.


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## Lev (Oct 12, 2004)

Guys, thanks a ton. Just checked out kaidomain and they're selling the CREE for 6.99 and the SSC for 7.18. Super cheap. And the nice thing is that the SSC comes on a star. I decided to try both types. I'm planning to make one for me and my gf. I think she would appreciate it.

Now moving forward... I need some optics/reflectors. Any good website recommendations for that? Kaidomain didn't seem to have anything in that area.

Thanks,
Lev


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## brum (Dec 19, 2004)

Lev said:


> Guys, thanks a ton. Just checked out kaidomain and they're selling the CREE for 6.99 and the SSC for 7.18. Super cheap. And the nice thing is that the SSC comes on a star. I decided to try both types. I'm planning to make one for me and my gf. I think she would appreciate it.
> 
> Now moving forward... I need some optics/reflectors. Any good website recommendations for that? Kaidomain didn't seem to have anything in that area.
> 
> ...


 I've got a load of LEDIL square optics for both Cree and SSC coming in this week. 
Check out the groupbuy section @ CPF, or drop me a PB.
The optics fit nicely in the design achesalot pioneered. 
You could also build a housing with both the square 1" alu and 1" 'U' profile, like my barlight:


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## p97z (Dec 19, 2006)

Brum,

Can you post some more pictures of your light? It looks nice!


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## brum (Dec 19, 2004)

p97z said:


> Brum,
> 
> Can you post some more pictures of your light? It looks nice!


I'll start a new thread once I have the XR-E's and LEDILs in. Don't want to hijack this thread. It's a really simple design, I put the most time in the polishing.


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## Lev (Oct 12, 2004)

Hey Allen,

Couple more dumb (ok, I know) questions for you: First, looking at your pics, there is not too much mention of where the buckpuck is located. It seems like it goes side by side with the controller, but I wasn't sure on that?

Second buckpuck question: I checked out the 3021 and 3023. Seems like the only difference is the 3023 has the wire leads coming into it. I wasn't sure if that makes a big difference, since most DIYs recommend the 3021. Is it just a matter of connecting the wires yourself vs. already having them inside the unit? And if that's the case, would the 3023 be the better option?

Also, I was looking at the buckpucks at cutter and there is an external pot feature. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again,
Lev


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## captn_kirchoff (Mar 2, 2007)

I finished my first triple Seoul handlebar lamp a few days ago, and have been really happy with it. It's the same basic design as Achesalot's. I got the emitters from Avnet and called up www.led-spot.com for the optics ($4 each). I have 2 differant friends (one in Australia) who ordered from Cutter weeks before I did... and are still waiting.

My lenses are Ledil, real spot + diffuse + medium. It's seems to be a pretty good combo, though this is my first bright light and it's really hard for me to tell what I want. One mod that I'm going to try out tonight is putting a reflective piece of metal on top of the lamp extending over the front to act as a reflective shroud. I don't care as much what's above me, so if I reflect a bit of that light back down to the trail it seems like it would help out a bit more.


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## jeep (Sep 23, 2004)

*a question...*

What is the difference between:

Arctic Alumina Premium Ceramic Thermal Adhesive
&
Arctic Silver Premium Thermal Adhesive

Thanks,

J


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Lev said:


> Hey Allen,
> 
> Couple more dumb (ok, I know) questions for you: First, looking at your pics, there is not too much mention of where the buckpuck is located. It seems like it goes side by side with the controller, but I wasn't sure on that?
> Lev


The Buckuck IS the controller. It is located inside the one inch square aluminum light body (yes, it's a tight fit. In fact I had to JB weld the two end brackets onto the body after I put the Buckpuck inside). You can barely see the Buckpuck in the photo below.












Lev said:


> Second buckpuck question: I checked out the 3021 and 3023. Seems like the only difference is the 3023 has the wire leads coming into it. I wasn't sure if that makes a big difference, since most DIYs recommend the 3021. Is it just a matter of connecting the wires yourself vs. already having them inside the unit? And if that's the case, would the 3023 be the better option?
> 
> Also, I was looking at the buckpucks at cutter and there is an external pot feature. Any thoughts on that?
> 
> ...


Yes the 3023 has wires coming out of it, instead of pins. In the photo above, you can see the pins of the 3021 BP. (1) You must keep them from shorting against the light body, and (2), you must solder wires to the small pins. The 3023 eliminates both of these concerns. There is a wiring harness available for the 3021 that comes with a connector that slides onto the pins. That makes it easier to deal with, but makes fitting into small spaces even more difficult. Yes the external pot feature allows you to dim the light using a 5k pot. One harness option includes the pot.

BTW: I believe the Buckpuck is cheaper from ledsupply.com than Cutter.
P.S. A bFlex is easier to fit inside (across diagonally, suspended by rubber insulators).


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

jeep said:


> What is the difference between:
> 
> Arctic Alumina Premium Ceramic Thermal Adhesive
> &
> ...


Arctic Silver has micronized silver particles for better thermal transfer. Both are supposed to be non-conductive, but the Arctic silver is slightly capacitive.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/index.html


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## jeep (Sep 23, 2004)

achesalot said:


> Arctic Silver has micronized silver particles for better thermal transfer. Both are supposed to be non-conductive, but the Arctic silver is slightly capacitive.
> 
> http://www.arcticsilver.com/index.html


Thanks for the quick answer and all the info achesalot.:thumbsup: 
I read all the posts about LEDs and light building and I think that I will give it a go myself.
Arctic Silver Adhesive is slightly capacitive would that be a problem for the construction and operation of a light similar to your build?
Cheers,

J


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

jeep said:


> Thanks for the quick answer and all the info achesalot.:thumbsup:
> I read all the posts about LEDs and light building and I think that I will give it a go myself.
> Arctic Silver Adhesive is slightly capacitive would that be a problem for the construction and operation of a light similar to your build?
> Cheers,
> ...


You're welcome.
Glad to hear you're going to give it a go. It can be a rewarding and educational experience. It can also be frustrating if things go wrong... but that's rare, and just look chalk those things up to experience!

The Arctic Silver Adhesive will not be a problem if you are using stars. It might create a problem (I don't know for sure) if you are using it to attach and electrically isolate bare emitters onto an aluminum surface.

Good luck,
- Allen


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## captn_kirchoff (Mar 2, 2007)

BTW, If you're Aluminum tubing is anodized, then the surface won't conduct electricity. I can try and dig the scope probes into housing and it still reads 10 MOhm. This makes mounting the emitters a bit easier since you don't have to worry about shorting them out.


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

Hey - i have some questions too! haha
Allen -can you tell us if the holders for the optics are necessary -apart from holding the optic in place?
And does the optic sit on the emitter -or is it a bit away from it?

My Khatods have just arrived - going by what Y-Wrench said -they provide a flood beam - i will compare them to the reflectors this weekend.
Though i'm pretty happy with the beam i have now -you never know what a combo of reflector/optic will provide -as you have shown 

Looking forward to your lite too Brum!

Cheers
Dom


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## markymark (Oct 30, 2004)

brum said:


> I've got a load of LEDIL square optics for both Cree and SSC coming in this week.
> Check out the groupbuy section @ CPF, or drop me a PB.
> The optics fit nicely in the design achesalot pioneered.
> You could also build a housing with both the square 1" alu and 1" 'U' profile, like my barlight:


Hey Brum, that light looks amazing. I've been building my achesalot triple over the last couple of weeks and now getting to the final stages. It has definitly been a _'it's not about the destination, it's about the journey' _type of experience.

Anyway, I was wondering how you polished your light, any hints or tips you can give?

And is that an ITW switch?


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## mjzraz (Oct 8, 2005)

*My efforts*



markymark said:


> Anyway, I was wondering how you polished your light, any hints or tips you can give?
> 
> And is that an ITW switch?


I was thinking the same thing - I took some chrome polish (brasso I think) and polished a section of my 1" aluminum tube (as of yet uncut) and it really polished up nice. This was with maybe 1 minute of effort. Then I took my orbital sander and smoothed the square corner and then polished that with the brasso. I think I need a few passes with finer grit sandpaper, but it looks like an easy way to get the polished look if you want it.









I put a couple more shots HERE


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## geogecko (Sep 22, 2005)

Polishing metal can be done pretty easily, only a bit time consuming, but I start out with 400 grit paper, then work my way up to 1500 or 2000 grit paper. You can get variety packs of it as auto stores, or places like Home Depot or Lowes also carry it. It can be used wet, which seems to work very well. I used this method to polish up a piece of titanium, which would be much harder to do than aluminum. Brasso can work as somewhere between 1500-2500 grit, probably, so I'd save it until last, if using this method. You may not even find you need it.

One method when using this technique that works out the best, is to alternate the direction of the sanding between grits. So for 400, you might go vertically, then for 600, go horizontally, etc. This keeps the lines from the sanding from showing up, when you approach 1000 grit and above.


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## geogecko (Sep 22, 2005)

Here are some shots of a Titanium clip on a flashlight that I refinished. It was originally sandblasted, but it showed scratches too well. Some before and after, as well as what the packages of wet sanding paper looked like. Also, the pictures don't do it justice, it's really shinier than it looks here.


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## Lumbee1 (Dec 16, 2004)

Do not polish your LED light. Polished aluminum has a lower emissivity that brushed aluminum. A black coating will have a higher emissivity than brushed aluminum.

VERY interesting reading about aluminum coatings:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=143193&highlight=black+coating


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## brum (Dec 19, 2004)

Lumbee1 said:


> Do not polish your LED light. Polished aluminum has a lower emissivity that brushed aluminum. A black coating will have a higher emissivity than brushed aluminum.
> 
> VERY interesting reading about aluminum coatings:
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=143193&highlight=black+coating


I knew that and it doesnt matter IMHO. 
I dont know the correct english wording but static emissivity is something different than forced (with air flowing). 
If I were to go after 100% possible efficiency I should have used a different alloy, ditched the star-mounted LEDs, used a thinner layer of AS, use Q4 binned XR-E's, grooved the entire housing to increase surface, anodized the entire thing in HA. But then again, the differences still would be small. And I've got the batterypower to bump the current up to 1A (normally running 750mAh) and still have around 3,5hr+ runtime.

The polishing just looks cool, the difference in brightness isnt noticable without some testing equipment.


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## markymark (Oct 30, 2004)

thanks for the info geogecko, I like that torch v. sexy. 

"emissivity" is that, like, how much something gives off heat? You could fry an egg on my light if it's just sitting there, must be very emissive


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## Tony_J_Ross (Dec 4, 2006)

Does anyone know of a source of Seouls in Australia ? I'm not having much luck unfortunately.


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## markymark (Oct 30, 2004)

Tony_J_Ross said:


> Does anyone know of a source of Seouls in Australia ? I'm not having much luck unfortunately.


mate, i just ordered a bunch from deal extreme. free shipping is nice.


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## Tony_J_Ross (Dec 4, 2006)

Awesome, thanks for the info mate


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## Tony_J_Ross (Dec 4, 2006)

LED's sorted now.

All I need is to work out how to get 14.8volt batt's here in Oz at a reasonable price.

I might need to switch back to my original thought and go for 8 AA cells running two Seouls @ 1000 mA.

Two on a helmet and two on the bars, Hmmmmm, maybe.

Tony


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## markymark (Oct 30, 2004)

Tony_J_Ross said:


> LED's sorted now.
> 
> All I need is to work out how to get 14.8volt batt's here in Oz at a reasonable price.
> 
> ...


This is funny, I must be a couple of weeks ahead of you in the build, but I was looking for the exact same thing about a month ago and there is nowhere here to get good batts, I ended up getting 14.8v lion packs from all-battery as they ship usps which is relatively cheap and the batts seem good. There is a place in perth that makes li ion battery packs, but their charger they sell is a complete joke and they cost more than all-battery anyway so what's the point:smallviolin: . All the other places in the states ship UPS which is a min of $70 US to ship anything, which is also a joke. end rant :rant:


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## Tony_J_Ross (Dec 4, 2006)

Looks like I am a little behind 

Picked up my parts for the housing today. Can't wait to get everything together !

Thanks for the info again mate.

Tony


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## Stregone (Aug 26, 2004)

Is it possible to buy everything needed for this without a group buy?


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## Tony_J_Ross (Dec 4, 2006)

Battery question.

If the Lupine Wilma uses a 7.2volt 6.8Ah Li-Ion battery to run 4 Luxeon LED's, why are lights running 3 SSC LED's using a 14.8volt Li-Ion battery ?

Tony


----------



## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

Tony_J_Ross said:


> Battery question.
> 
> If the Lupine Wilma uses a 7.2volt 6.8Ah Li-Ion battery to run 4 Luxeon LED's, why are lights running 3 SSC LED's using a 14.8volt Li-Ion battery ?
> 
> Tony


Hi, the wilma light works to 7,2 v for that use a overvolted circuit.

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## Tony_J_Ross (Dec 4, 2006)

Ah I thought it might be a boost system.

Thanks !

By the way nice light you made msxtr.

Tony


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## RFix (Aug 8, 2006)

I too am jumping on the achesalot design ~ building two triple seouls and have a newbie question. Is the potentiometer wired between the battery and buckpuck or between the buckpuck and LED's?

edit: it turns out the 3021 has pins for an external pot, the 3023 (which i bought) does not.

Cheers

Rob


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## brum (Dec 19, 2004)

msxtr said:


> Hi, the wilma light works to 7,2 v for that use a overvolted circuit.
> 
> Greetings - Saludos
> 
> msxtr


Tony is right, there is no such thing as overvolting when you're talking about LED systems. It's a boost circuit, such as the TaskLED fatman.

A buck circuit is generally preferred over a boost system, but if you already have the batteries (Vbat < total Vled) a boost system also works fine.


----------



## geogecko (Sep 22, 2005)

There are a number of reasons why the voltages/battery pack combinations could be different.

If you run LEDs in series, you need a higher voltage, the current through each LED will be the same, say 350mA, but you may need 14V or more to run them, depending on what type of regulator you use.

If you run the LEDs in parallel, you need more current, but only the voltage of one LED, for instance, if you ran 4 LEDs at 350mA, you'd be pulling almost 1500mA, but only need around 4V.

When trying to build a system yourself, it makes since if you can use the lowest voltage on the battery possible, because the batteries will be cheaper.

It's hard to judge a light based on only knowing it's battery specifications. They could be using buck, boost, or buck-boost configurations, and any other combination of LED configurations (series/parallel).


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## brum (Dec 19, 2004)

geogecko said:


> There are a number of reasons why the voltages/battery pack combinations could be different.
> 
> If you run LEDs in series, you need a higher voltage, the current through each LED will be the same, say 350mA, but you may need 14V or more to run them, depending on what type of regulator you use.
> 
> ...


Power LEDs should ALWAYS be ran in a serial arrangement, since the emitters arent matched. If you would run them parralel the LED with a lower Vf would see (much) more current. So I can safely say that Lupine is using a boost system. Only other option is that they use a seperate circuit for each emitter, than each circuit would be buck, buch using such an arrangement is a bit over the top IMHO.


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

I don't agree with lower voltage batteries being cheaper, or better.
Low voltage means high current for the same amount of power.
This means higher capacity cells (high Ah's), wich useualy aren't any cheaper.
High current means thicker wiring and bigger connectors, wich can be irritating on a helmet light.
And there's another thing.
Low voltage means using a boost driver ,wich drains batteries progressivly.
At hte end of your runtime the battery voltage drops. The boostdriver takes more current to compensate, wich in turn causes the battery voltage to drop even more, and soo on. Withtin seconds you'r in complete darkness. And bad for battery life.
Using a buck driver even at the very end of your runtime, well over the treshold, the alarm or whatever there is to warn you for low battery voltage, the driver will go out of regulation, but still providing some mA's for the leds.
Giving you enough light to get you home safe. Not good for the batteries either, but good for you.
14.4V Nimh or 14.8V LIion is just fine for 3 leds, using a buck driver. IMHO


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## geogecko (Sep 22, 2005)

Should have clarified. By parallel configuration, I meant a driver circuit for each LED.

The new 500L by DiNotte has 3 drivers, one for each LED, in the unlikely event that an LED caused a driver failure, you still have light.

You are right, that the lower voltage you use, the more current you can require, but it depends on your configuration, as I stated above. If you need 14.8V, that's 4 cells in series. If you figure that you can use a 3.7V battery, using a buck-boost configuration, you may be able to get away with only 2 or 3 cells in parallel, therefore, a cheaper battery.

I'm speaking mainly from theoretical design, as I haven't built a driver yet in this configuration, but chips from Linear Technology certainly support this configuration, and with relatively good efficiency, around 85-95%.


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## Stregone (Aug 26, 2004)

geogecko said:


> Should have clarified. By parallel configuration, I meant a driver circuit for each LED.
> 
> The new 500L by DiNotte has 3 drivers, one for each LED, in the unlikely event that an LED caused a driver failure, you still have light.
> 
> ...


 The thing is, fewer cells will require more capacity to get the same runtime. So is the pack really cheaper when you have to get fewer larger capacity cells? Plus high voltage/low current is simply more efficient as far as losses in wires and connectors goes.


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## markymark (Oct 30, 2004)

sorry to break up the battery banter but...

I have a 2 cree xre's left from a build and a ssc p4 left as well. Would there be a problem running them in series. They run the same V and current so why not? Planning to put the ssc p4 in the middle with an IMS20 reflectror and the cree's on the outside with leidil optics. Should be a nice combo


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

markymark said:


> sorry to break up the battery banter but...
> 
> I have a 2 cree xre's left from a build and a ssc p4 left as well. Would there be a problem running them in series. They run the same V and current so why not? Planning to put the ssc p4 in the middle with an IMS20 reflectror and the cree's on the outside with leidil optics. Should be a nice combo


That should work fine markymark.... assuming they are all on stars, thus have isolated slugs.

Battery discussions are always a good thing.


----------



## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

brum said:


> Tony is right, there is no such thing as overvolting when you're talking about LED systems. It's a boost circuit, such as the TaskLED fatman.
> 
> A buck circuit is generally preferred over a boost system, but if you already have the batteries (Vbat < total Vled) a boost system also works fine.


Hi, yes, that, that, I don't remembered the term "boost" in english :smilewinkgrin:

*Tony_J_Ross* Thanks for the praise 

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## geogecko (Sep 22, 2005)

Stregone said:


> The thing is, fewer cells will require more capacity to get the same runtime. So is the pack really cheaper when you have to get fewer larger capacity cells? Plus high voltage/low current is simply more efficient as far as losses in wires and connectors goes.


Good points. When you speak of fewer cells, it's not exactly how I'm describing it.

Say for instance, you have a 14.8V pack, and say it's a 4000mAh cell. That means, you have 4 cells in series, for a pack that has specs of 14.8V @ 4000mAh.

If you have a 3.7V pack, using the same cells, that means you have 4 cells in parallel, for a pack that has specs of 3.7V @ 16000mAh.

If you bought the cells individually, that would have been the same cost. What I'm saying, is, that since you are running the LEDs in parallel (so to speak, individual drivers), you may not need exactly 4 times the amount of current, so possibly, you could get away with a pack that was only rated for 12000mAh, thus only having to purchase 3 cells, for a pack that is 3.7V @ 12000mAh.

Based on a comment made by thasingletrackmastah, it is appearing that the low voltage solution may not be the best. I've been doing some research on some flashlights that use boost circuit regulation, and their constant current drivers aren't regulating worth crap. The light output is on a continual decline, because the internal resistance of the battery rises as the battery is depleted, requiring more current from the battery to maintain the "constant" current drive that the driver is trying to regulate. The battery can't contend with this, so what you get is a regulator that can't regulate.

My original thought was to build a regulator that was a boost design, but turn it into a buck-boost configuration by folding the output back onto the input. This is a configuration supported by several Linear Technology IC's, and allows your battery to be above or below in voltage, WRT the LED forward voltage. It will be interesting to build one of these, test it with a power supply, then with a battery supply, to see if the battery can keep up...


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## markymark (Oct 30, 2004)

achesalot said:


> That should work fine markymark.... assuming they are all on stars, thus have isolated slugs.
> 
> Battery discussions are always a good thing.


Thanks achesalot, yes they are all on stars. I have had a lot of fun/pain/frustration/joy building your lights, thanks very much for putting all the info up here and on your webpage. It is fantastic.:thumbsup:

And battery discussions always seem to have positives and negatives to them :bluefrown: .


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## STS01 (Dec 29, 2005)

Can anyone confirm if these are the L2 optics that suit the seoul P4?: http://www.ledsupply.com/20mm.php

Is there a square lens that suits the Seoul (ie like the ledil for the cree)?


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## sstefanov (Sep 18, 2005)

STS01 said:


> Can anyone confirm if these are the L2 optics that suit the seoul P4?: http://www.ledsupply.com/20mm.php
> 
> Is there a square lens that suits the Seoul (ie like the ledil for the cree)?


Yes, I am using exactly these with the Seoul P4. They are quite good, IMHO.

Also Ledil makes Seoul P4 version of their square lens too.

Stefan


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## STS01 (Dec 29, 2005)

sstefanov said:


> Yes, I am using exactly these with the Seoul P4. They are quite good, IMHO.
> 
> Also Ledil makes Seoul P4 version of their square lens too.
> 
> Stefan


Where can we get the Ledil lenses for the Seoul? I've only seen ones to suit cree on cutter...


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

STS01 said:


> Can anyone confirm if these are the L2 optics that suit the seoul P4?: http://www.ledsupply.com/20mm.php
> 
> Is there a square lens that suits the Seoul (ie like the ledil for the cree)?


Yes. The 20mm L2 optics you refered to are the ones. And don't forget to order optic holders for those as well (Luxeon III or V Star Optic Holder)

Yes. I believe you can order the square Ledils for Seoul P4 at http://led-spot.com (Note: you have to call or email to order)
No optic holders necessary for the square Ledil.


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## mjzraz (Oct 8, 2005)

*I just got a few Ledil SSC Square Optics*



STS01 said:


> Where can we get the Ledil lenses for the Seoul? I've only seen ones to suit cree on cutter...


I got some Ledil square SSC optics from a group Buy on Candlepower forums:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=155850

I am slowly collecting the parts for an Acheselot inspired light. I am planning a 1 LED and a 3 LED light. The single LED will probably be a helmet light, but here are a few photos of what I have so far...

From LED Bike Ligh...
[TR]


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## sstefanov (Sep 18, 2005)

STS01 said:


> Where can we get the Ledil lenses for the Seoul? I've only seen ones to suit cree on cutter...


I got them from this group by at CPF:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=155850

Stefan


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

mjzraz: looks like you're off to a good start. Keep us posted!
Perhaps you should start a separate thread.


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## Zero_Enigma (Dec 14, 2006)

mjzraz said:


> I got some Ledil square SSC optics from a group Buy on Candlepower forums:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=155850
> 
> I am slowly collecting the parts for an Acheselot inspired light. I am planning a 1 LED and a 3 LED light. The single LED will probably be a helmet light, but here are a few photos of what I have so far...
> ...


Mjz,

That red switch, I assume you got that from Batteryspace? Is it a click on/off or is it a momentary switch?


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## studiddy (Feb 27, 2007)

Zero_Enigma said:


> Mjz,
> 
> That red switch, I assume you got that from Batteryspace? Is it a click on/off or is it a momentary switch?


I would like to second this question.
Also, I've been reading these threads for a while, but I can't seem to find a wiring diagram of any sort. Maybe I'm just missing it, but has anyone posted a rudimentary drawing or anything. I realize this isn't rocket science and have done light electrical work before, but I just ordered my seouls, a bflex, and the dc connector, and I'm just wondering how the momentary contact switch fits into the equation. I apologize if this has been covered before. It will probably all become more clear once I actually have parts in hand.
One more thing, code 34487 will save you 5% at batteryspace, should you choose to get your battery there.


----------



## Lev (Oct 12, 2004)

studiddy said:


> I would like to second this question.
> Also, I've been reading these threads for a while, but I can't seem to find a wiring diagram of any sort. Maybe I'm just missing it, but has anyone posted a rudimentary drawing or anything. I realize this isn't rocket science and have done light electrical work before, but I just ordered my seouls, a bflex, and the dc connector, and I'm just wondering how the momentary contact switch fits into the equation. I apologize if this has been covered before. It will probably all become more clear once I actually have parts in hand.
> One more thing, code 34487 will save you 5% at batteryspace, should you choose to get your battery there.


Studiddy, the red switch is a push button switch from Radio Shack. They sell them for about $2-3. Once you get your bflex in possession, the picture should seem clearer. There are solder points on the bflex for everything, including the switch (+/-), battery power (+/-), and LEDs (+/-). I haven't actually completed my set up yet, but it all seems to make sense with the supplies in hand. The bflex will properly control everything; all you have to do is solder the wires into the right spots.

Hope that helps a bit.

DL


----------



## studiddy (Feb 27, 2007)

Lev said:


> Studiddy, the red switch is a push button switch from Radio Shack. They sell them for about $2-3. Once you get your bflex in possession, the picture should seem clearer. There are solder points on the bflex for everything, including the switch (+/-), battery power (+/-), and LEDs (+/-). I haven't actually completed my set up yet, but it all seems to make sense with the supplies in hand. The bflex will properly control everything; all you have to do is solder the wires into the right spots.
> 
> Hope that helps a bit.
> 
> DL


Yeah, thanks. If the bflex is labeled then I don't anticipate a problem. I was reading through the pdf about it and it seem straightforward enough. Hook it up and then click it several thousand times. 
I was also thinking about getting that waterproof switch from batteryspace and sticking it somewhere easily accessible. My stuff should be here in about a week and a half or so. I hope.


----------



## mjzraz (Oct 8, 2005)

Zero_Enigma said:


> Mjz,
> 
> That red switch, I assume you got that from Batteryspace? Is it a click on/off or is it a momentary switch?


That switch I have is from Batteryspace:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2656

I had it on my Christmas list and someone got it for me. I do think that switches are rather expensive. The switches and the driver are the biggest cost. I did a breakdown of what I think my cost per light might be assuming that I build more than 1 or 2 and here's what I came up with:
Consider that the individual unit costs from some items are a portion of the raw materials - like I bought a tube of epoxy but it should be good for several lights, the aluminum should be enough for several lights etc:
Housing $3.00
end plug $.80
optic: $5.50
LED $7.20
Thermal Adhesive $1.00
reflector mount used as bracket free hopefully
or
Velcro for helmet mount - $1.00
Switch $2.50

The rest depends on what you have existing for batteries. On the cheap end it would be:
Battery holder and wire connectors -$4.00 (This assumes you have 3 AA Nimh rechargeable batteries and a charger and will use a resistor and direct drive)
The best way to power them is using some sort of constant current driver. This is easily the most expensive item but it gives you a lot more options for batteries.
So the total in parts for the basic single LED light is @ $25 or so.

Upgrades:
+ $4.00 waterproof switch
+ $4.00 Waterproof connectors

Upgrading the battery requires a current driver.
+ $20 for a basic driver - this would allow the use of additional AA rechargeables or Alkaline batteries.
or
+$30 for the bflex driver with a bike specific user interface, dimming levels and flashing modes
+ $30 - ?? take your pick of battery packs and chargers 3.6Volt - 25Volt or so.


----------



## studiddy (Feb 27, 2007)

Editing to throw in another question.
For those using a bflex, what are you using for your Vwarn?
I snagged one of these guys yesterday: http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1311
and doubt I'll ever run it down enough to matter, but I figure better safe than sorry.
Another note, taskled shipping is really fast. At least to the CONUS.


----------



## blackwood (May 22, 2007)

I have a question also. I'll be recieving the bits to make achesalot's light, but being in Australia i'm having a lot of trouble getting a 14.8v battery without paying through nose on shipping. I do see 7.4v batteries with around 2700mAh are a heap cheaper so was wondering whether its possible to get 2 of these and join them together somehow. What negatives could there be in doing this and is it possible? It would sure save many many dollars....


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## Stregone (Aug 26, 2004)

blackwood said:


> I have a question also. I'll be recieving the bits to make achesalot's light, but being in Australia i'm having a lot of trouble getting a 14.8v battery without paying through nose on shipping. I do see 7.4v batteries with around 2700mAh are a heap cheaper so was wondering whether its possible to get 2 of these and join them together somehow. What negatives could there be in doing this and is it possible? It would sure save many many dollars....


You can do that. Just make sure they you always use them together. Connect the negative from one to the positive on the other. The two remaining leads are your positive and negative for your new 14.8v pack.


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## redlabel (Nov 15, 2006)

blackwood said:


> I have a question also. I'll be recieving the bits to make achesalot's light, but being in Australia i'm having a lot of trouble getting a 14.8v battery without paying through nose on shipping. I do see 7.4v batteries with around 2700mAh are a heap cheaper so was wondering whether its possible to get 2 of these and join them together somehow. What negatives could there be in doing this and is it possible? It would sure save many many dollars....


I'm in Aus too and have just finished an achesalot light, I ended up getting my battery from http://www.all-battery.com, as it was the cheapest shipping i could find at USD$26.


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## sooner8888 (May 24, 2007)

*Your thoughts on an alternative housing design*

I am waiting on ordered parts for Achesalot's awesome triple Seoul P4 light. Does anyone who has made/used the Achesalot light or other designs have any thoughts on this housing design?:

http://www.racedaynutrition.com/features/bikelight.aspx

At first appearance to a light-building noob, it looks like the round shape of the Seoul P4 optics and holder might work easier, as compared to the squared Cree components that Achesalot's light was originally designed...round peg in a round hole. Looks like heat dissipation would be improved too. However, it also looks to be not as low profile, and the big paper clip seems a bit janky and would need an upgrade.


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

sooner8888 said:


> I am waiting on ordered parts for Achesalot's awesome triple Seoul P4 light. Does anyone who has made/used the Achesalot light or other designs have any thoughts on this housing design?:
> 
> http://www.racedaynutrition.com/features/bikelight.aspx
> 
> At first appearance to a light-building noob, it looks like the round shape of the Seoul P4 optics and holder might work easier, as compared to the squared Cree components that Achesalot's light was originally designed...round peg in a round hole. Looks like heat dissipation would be improved too. However, it also looks to be not as low profile, and the big paper clip seems a bit janky and would need an upgrade.


I posted a thread linking to someone elses light similar.. it uses copper pipe fittings. I have just ordered some heainks a bit like that one shown from 280 rc motors

http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=293_32&products_id=18617

i orderd the fan version asit was cheap enough and the bolt hole for the fan can be used to bolt the lights togther. Maybe not as nice as solderin, but quicker when trying differnt configurations perhaps.

Achesalot's design is quite well proven though. variety is th spice of life though hehe

Stu


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## Stregone (Aug 26, 2004)

redlabel said:


> I'm in Aus too and have just finished an achesalot light, I ended up getting my battery from http://www.all-battery.com, as it was the cheapest shipping i could find at USD$26.


They have a free shipping code, I don't know if it works for shipping overseas though. Lemmie see if I still have the email from them...

EDIT: Got it, tenergy2007


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## Lumbee1 (Dec 16, 2004)

Improving on achesalot's design, I came up with a new single LED light that is smaller and should offer enough flood for tech riding. It would make the perfect low profile helmet light.


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## STS01 (Dec 29, 2005)

Lumbee1 said:


> *Improving on achesalot's design*, I came up with a new single LED light that is smaller and should offer enough flood for tech riding. It would make the perfect low profile helmet light.


That's a big call....


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

could you run 4 LED's off this setup?


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

brent878 said:


> could you run 4 LED's off this setup?


 If you extend it and add another box section...yes. You would want at least 14.8V battery if you were going to run them in series (best to run series).

Stu


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

Stuart B said:


> If you extend it and add another box section...yes. You would want at least 14.8V battery if you were going to run them in series (best to run series).
> 
> Stu


thanks for your reply.

would these P4 LED's fit in something like this?










I have an existing night sun light setup that i would like to convert to LED and make it as bright or brighter than a HID setup. And if something like that optics would work and be efficitient with the P4 led's I think it would look great. If not then I would do the acealot method and build it myself.

I was thinking the tripple housing for high beam and a single led for the low beam. As i have 2 halegens right now. Or go 2 tripple so thier would be 6 led's total but not sure on how i would wire it or what battery i would need. Let me hear your professinal thoughts as I am going to build a LED light setup just brain storming on what is the best way of doing it with what I have.


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

brent878 said:


> thanks for your reply.
> 
> would these P4 LED's fit in something like this?
> 
> ...


I am un familiar with the ins and outs of the nightsun. if you get an optic like that in the correct size and you can get leds mounte on a heatsink that bonds a metal casing it might be feasible.

for dimming. don't turn leds off....but tim all the leds. its more efficient meaning you save even more battery life.

as for 6 leds....if you don't mind the size....I say go for it. I would suggest run 2 strings of 3 in series running an amp (1/2 for each string). this will be very bright and efficient too. brighter and more efficient than a 13w hid....and dimmable too.

I would use a 14.8V lith ion. I just checked my spead sheet (yes I know its geeky). 14.8V 4.4ah bat should last over 5 hours. halve that for a 2.2ah bat. that's at full power. that config should provide over 700 lumens from about 12 watts from the battery.

4 driven at 1amp would probably be a tiny bit brighter but is less efficient at about 17 battery watts and needs more heatsinking. leds also turn more blue when driven hard.

you will need an led driver too. nflex/bflex are good.

sorry if I got carried away geeking out again. I do that hehe.

Stu


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

Stuart B said:


> I am un familiar with the ins and outs of the nightsun. if you get an optic like that in the correct size and you can get leds mounte on a heatsink that bonds a metal casing it might be feasible.
> 
> for dimming. don't turn leds off....but tim all the leds. its more efficient meaning you save even more battery life.
> 
> ...


No I perfer when people go into detail. As I understand most of it and it helps me understand what i need to do. I am going to have to take measurements to see if I can use my night sun housing, if not then I will fab something up for the LED's. I just have 2 sets of night suns with almost dead batterys. I don't want to put money into new battery's on old technology so I want to upgrade and these LED's seem to work good. Everyone I ride with use HID's and tell me that LED's are crap. So I want to build a system that is brighter than thier $400 systems.

So if I wanted to run 6 LED's in the housing i posted. I would run each set of 3 in series and run them to an amp? what do you mean by amp, like the controller or something seperate. I will be using the 14.8v li ion battery unless you think i need something bigger.

I would like to use my existing toggle switch which is a two way, up is low, middle is off and down is high. I like that idea better than a single push button that cylcles through different modes. But i guess i could get used to the modes as i probably wouldn't change it too much with high run times. Right now my current battery gets about 30 min on high and probalby 1.5 on low and my rides range from 2 ro 3 hours but probalby 1.5-2 hours in the dark. So i am always switch between high and low to conserver my current battery.


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

brent878 said:


> No I perfer when people go into detail. As I understand most of it and it helps me understand what i need to do. I am going to have to take measurements to see if I can use my night sun housing, if not then I will fab something up for the LED's. I just have 2 sets of night suns with almost dead batterys. I don't want to put money into new battery's on old technology so I want to upgrade and these LED's seem to work good. Everyone I ride with use HID's and tell me that LED's are crap. So I want to build a system that is brighter than thier $400 systems.
> 
> So if I wanted to run 6 LED's in the housing i posted. I would run each set of 3 in series and run them to an amp? what do you mean by amp, like the controller or something seperate. I will be using the 14.8v li ion battery unless you think i need something bigger.
> 
> I would like to use my existing toggle switch which is a two way, up is low, middle is off and down is high. I like that idea better than a single push button that cylcles through different modes. But i guess i could get used to the modes as i probably wouldn't change it too much with high run times. Right now my current battery gets about 30 min on high and probalby 1.5 on low and my rides range from 2 ro 3 hours but probalby 1.5-2 hours in the dark. So i am always switch between high and low to conserver my current battery.


the controller is what drives the leds. the battery is connected to its input and its output to leds. leds like constant current. constant current = constant brightness. if the battery voltgae did happen to match the voltagr the led required, they would dim slowly. the controller can provide different current levels (dimming). the leds in the 3x2 config at full will need about 10volts. the controller drops the battery voltage down to this as required to maintain the 1amp.

if you want a multi position brightness selector you might want to do what tony has done here
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=302818

he has used a buck puck controller that normally uses a variable resistor to change brightness. he has used a switch to select between 2 different resistances and open circuit. the open circuit setting is full brightness and the 2 different resistances the 2 lower brightnesses.

this setup doesn't have low batery warning though like you can with the nflex/bflex controllers. don't over discharge lith ions....they don't like it.

yeah 3 in series in each of the 2 strings. most drivers go up to 1amp total. so strings would share. half an amp in each string.

don't tell your mates about what leds can do now till you finish yours hehe. lupine who make expensive hids have adopted led and say its better....I agree with them.

brighter more efficient (in 3x2 config here....not 4 at 1 amp) light that doesn't need to warm to get full brightness and can be dimmed. your mates are behind the times hehe.
if you wanted rediculous brigght...you could use 2 conrtrollers. 1 for each 3. you could drive both at 1 amp an get over 1000 lumens.....but it will be ott and suck the juice. heatsinking wll have to be really good aswell.

Stu


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

Stuart B said:


> brighter more efficient (in 3x2 config here....not 4 at 1 amp) light that doesn't need to warm to get full brightness and can be dimmed. your mates are behind the times hehe.
> if you wanted rediculous brigght...you could use 2 conrtrollers. 1 for each 3. you could drive both at 1 amp an get over 1000 lumens.....but it will be ott and suck the juice. heatsinking wll have to be really good aswell.
> 
> Stu


how much heat do you think it will make at 3 led's on a side at 1 amp? I have made small led lights before but nothing this big so i never had to worry about heat. I have to take some measurements but i don't think i have all that much room to work with but it is aluminum housing so that will help me out.


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## Tony_J_Ross (Dec 4, 2006)

brent878 said:


> how much heat do you think it will make at 3 led's on a side at 1 amp? I have made small led lights before but nothing this big so i never had to worry about heat. I have to take some measurements but i don't think i have all that much room to work with but it is aluminum housing so that will help me out.


Heat is a major issue with any bright light system, regardless of the light source.

I tried to do a long burn test with my new prototype last night and it got so hot, I got paranoid and turned it off after 15 minutes. I was running it without wind simulation and I'm not sure what temp the light system got to but it would have to be around 60-80 degrees celcius.

When I ran the light on low beam, roughly 75% the unit only just got warm.

I haven't taken my light for a ride yet, but I think air circulation past the unit will keep it much cooler than inside when the room temp is 18 degree's celcius.

Tony


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

I only have time for a quick reply. thinking about it. 3 in individual lamps isn't any worse than a single 3 led light. so its not too bad.

air flow makes a big difference to the light temperature. its worth having a low level for when you aren moving....when you don't need full bright any way.

I would say 2 x 3 at 2 x 1 amp will be ott...even if it has wow factor. 500 lumen is enough to go at near day speeds....shadows being the limiting issue. even a daft bright light wll have shadows.....it could be said more shadow.

the ally housing is good. you should try and mimic what lupine do with the wilma. there is a pic of one open in a wilma thread recently. its a plate with the leds on that bolts to the housing. good thermal paths.

as for room. you can run the controller in the battery pack if you are tight on space. that's what I am planning on doing.

Stu


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

brent878 said:


> how much heat do you think it will make at 3 led's on a side at 1 amp? I have made small led lights before but nothing this big so i never had to worry about heat. I have to take some measurements but i don't think i have all that much room to work with but it is aluminum housing so that will help me out.


this was the thread i was refering too incase you didn't find it.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=303149&highlight=wilma

the leds are mounted on that metal plate and it is bolted to the housing. thermal epoxy may work if you can't bolt it. its a bit permant and potentially messy though.

Stu


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## websterjody (May 16, 2007)

Am I missing something while looking at this LED? Is it as bright as I think that I am reading? Almost 2000 lumen at 30mA??????
http://www.marktechopto.com/Product...4-leds-features.cfm?Part_Number=LP377PWN1-60G


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## Stregone (Aug 26, 2004)

websterjody said:


> Am I missing something while looking at this LED? Is it as bright as I think that I am reading? Almost 2000 lumen at 30mA??????
> http://www.marktechopto.com/Product...4-leds-features.cfm?Part_Number=LP377PWN1-60G


Looks like its millilumens. Which would be 18 lumens, I think. Or is it 1.8?


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## websterjody (May 16, 2007)

Ohhhhhh, ok. I got excited for a minute.


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## STS01 (Dec 29, 2005)

*Added heatsink variation...*

I've made 2 sets of 'Achesalot' LED's now using Cree XR-Es (a set for me and a set for a mate) and now I'm building up a 'MkII' using Seoul P4's. I got to thinking about inproving heat transfer and added a bit of a variation to the 'Achesalot' housing:

Note that this is just a quick mock up since the topic of thermal management came up. When finished the heatsinks will be trimmed to fit exactly on the raised portion at the front (lifted up in the third pic just to show it more clearly)



The finished lights:


I'm still debating whether or not I'm game to put some AA adhesive under it at final assembly...


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## Katzenjammer (Jun 12, 2007)

I wonder whether using a touch of MicroMesh in, say, 8000 or 10000 grit on the optic face would do the same job of diffusion smoothing as the plastic bag does.


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## Katzenjammer (Jun 12, 2007)

Have the SSC P4s gone away? I've been googling for them and looking at Cutter but nobody seems to have them. Anyone know what the story is?


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

i get my seouls p4s from here

http://leds.de/

Stu


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

or here

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1445


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## Katzenjammer (Jun 12, 2007)

Thanks, both. Apparently my searches failed because I didn't include "z-power". Once I did that, thanks to you guys, I got tons of hits including this one for U-bin stars at $7.18 a pop:

https://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=1319


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## Katzenjammer (Jun 12, 2007)

Thanks, both. Apparently my searches failed because I didn't include "z-power". Once I did that, thanks to you guys, I got tons of hits including this one for U-bin stars at $7.18 a pop:

https://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=1319

Has everyone seen this: http://wandinger.pfaffenwinkel.de/led_vergleich/LED_Vergleich.html

The difference between the Cree and the SSC being driven at 0.5a is startling.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Any idea what lens is being used in the last two examples you linked to? Turned 90°, I wonder how that might work out as a bar-mount light?










Cree XLamp 7090XR-E mit Carclo Elliptical 4*25 Grad, 500 mA, 
50 cm Abstand, Gradzahlen müssen also verdoppelt werden


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## Katzenjammer (Jun 12, 2007)

Speedub.Nate said:


> Any idea what lens is being used in the last two examples you linked to? Turned 90°, I wonder how that might work out as a bar-mount light?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It says they're "Carclo Elliptical 4*25 degrees", and that the lamp was only 50cm from the target and therefore appears twice as narrow as it ought (his other setups were standardised at a meter). I haven't the faintest idea what "4*25" is meant to mean, though. I did a quick whip through the Carclo site https://www.carclo-optics.co.uk/ but didn't see anything obvious. They do have two elliptical lenses for the Cree XR (US$73.43 for a box of 50). They're really the same lens, except one has the ripple turned 90 degrees.

Hope that helps.


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

I am not familiar with the Carclo lenses, but L2 makes a 5x20 lens like that as well. Makes me think of a fog light lens when I see the beam pattern

http://www.ledsupply.com/l2-op-520.php


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

The 4 X 25 means a 4deg wide and 25deg long beam pattern.
I tried one -but it didn't seem very efficient -a 10 or 15deg optic would give better results for bike lighting.
Cheers
Dom


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

poobardog said:


> The 4 X 25 means a 4deg wide and 25deg long beam pattern.
> I tried one -but it didn't seem very efficient -a 10 or 15deg optic would give better results for bike lighting.


Did you use it in a 3x setup ala achesalot's light? I was thinking in conjunction with two floods, the side spill might be welcome. Is it just too squat & wide to be useful?


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## Katzenjammer (Jun 12, 2007)

poobardog said:


> The 4 X 25 means a 4deg wide and 25deg long beam pattern.


aaAAAaaaa thanks, Dom. I might have guessed that, but I'm used to thinking of ellipses in terms of their ratio as a graphic rather than a light beam.


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

I have a 4x SSp4 setup ala achesalot with 2x6 degree in the middle and 2x15 degree outside for trail riding. It is great I think 25 degrees would be too wide, with this set up there is plenty of throw and side spill with just nice even light. You could probably go 20 degree if you wanted a lot of spill, but then I would change the middle two to an 8 or 10 degree to keep everything even. I haven't tested these other combos, but is what I would go with if I was going to try anything different. I have a 2x5 degree helmet spot that would make up for the loss in throw if I wanted more spread.

Bottom line the 15 degree give a lot of side spill with the Seouls I would start there for a flood and work out if needed. IMHO


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

Hi Speedhub - 
I didn't use it -just was comparing it with round optics and noticed a lot of diffusion.
Sounds like Zen has the answer using this type of optic by using much smaller degree pattern.
Cheers
Dom


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## RFix (Aug 8, 2006)

I have a Achesalot inspired light for my bars and helmut as well, the bar light is perfect with 3 - 15 degree lenses. The helmut uses 2 - 5 degree on the outside and a 15 in the middle, it has a bright center spot and I am considering going with 2 - 15 degree on the outsides and a single 5 degree in the middle. Just thought I would report that the bar light with all 15 degree lenses, is ideal for me.


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## Katzenjammer (Jun 12, 2007)

(self delete)


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## _I_ (Jun 23, 2007)

Does anyone have a couple of spare CRS square lenses for Cree XR-E that they'd be willing to sell?

I'm looking for a -RS/Real Spot +-6' or a -SS/Smooth Spot +-7' plus a -D/Diffuser +-7' or -M/Medium +-14'. Led-spot wants to sell them as minimum 3 per model so I thought maybe someone had excess? Upon checking the Led-Spot order form it seems they dont' even offer lost cost shipping anymore, the slowest is 2nd day DHL.

LOL, come to think of it I don't have the 1" square Al tubing yet either, anyone have leftovers? I know if I have to buy all these parts myself I'll have 3X the quantity needed and I can't see myself making several lights so if nobody has leftovers does anyone want half of the tubing and optics order?

What's the group concensus on what the best combo would be for a two-light setup? I'm leaning towards wanting 1 -SS and 1 -M.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

I'd have to agree with RFix above on the lens combos:
[3x15] on the bars and [2x15, 1x5] on the helmet.
If you are riding trails, mostly singletrack, this is the perfect setup, IMHO. Road riders might want more spot, but you don't really want more spot for trails; I've experimented quite a bit with different lenses/reflectors on the trails and this setup works great.

Sorry _|_, I'm pretty much using SSC P4 LEDs because 1) they are brighter and 2) I can get the 20mm L2 lenses (made for Luxeon III) from LED Supply @ $2 ea with cheap shipping, and they work great with the SSC P4! (Don't forget the lens holders!)

You should be able to pick up a 3' piece of aluminum tube at your local hardware or homestore... which should be enough to build two 3xLED lights.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Katzenjammer said:


> I wonder whether using a touch of MicroMesh in, say, 8000 or 10000 grit on the optic face would do the same job of diffusion smoothing as the plastic bag does.


Actually, I decided that the bag filter took too much light away... or so it seemed anyway. Best to just get the right optics. If you want more flood, get some 15 degree lenses.


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## _I_ (Jun 23, 2007)

achesalot said:


> I'd have to agree with RFix above on the lens combos:
> [3x15] on the bars and [2x15, 1x5] on the helmet.
> If you are riding trails, mostly singletrack, this is the perfect setup, IMHO. Road riders might want more spot, but you don't really want more spot for trails; I've experimented quite a bit with different lenses/reflectors on the trails and this setup works great.
> 
> ...


I don't plan on having a helmit light for awhile if ever, my choices if I stay with the square housing are only +-6 or 7 then +-14. It's going to be a two, not three lens light.

Are the SCCs really brighter? Now there are Q4/Q5 Crees and most comparisons seem to use a bluer SCC. They're both using the same LED die anyway aren't they? I am not convinced we can say either brand is inherantly brighter if comparing equivalent bins of both, though the packaging is worse on the SCC, but the lens selection is better.

Yes I can pick up the aluminum, but I don't want to buy 3 x as much Al or lenses as I need. It'll just cost more then sit around for years till it eventually gets thrown in the trash. Been there, done that on tons of projects in past years. For example right now I'm sitting on hundreds (probably thousands $ in electronics parts for the same reason - that I did not need several times as much as the minimum quantity offered. It just seemed there are so many here building lights, surely someone else also wants only enough supplies to build one or two instead of 3+.

Edit: I realize my situation is not the same as some, in that I have a lot of misc. parts and connectors already, so my total addt'l expenditure is lower than some will face, that I am focusing a lot on parts I _didn't_ have yet, and that my application of the light(s) might not be as demanding as some require. For my uses, I feel that a two LED/optics based light will be enough, given the right optical focus angle(s) combination.


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## poobardog (Mar 2, 2007)

I have some of the Ledil square optics if you need them still -they are the 6& 7deg.
Haven't actually used them because i find the round ones easier to work with-but just putting them on top of an emitter to try.
Don't look as spotty as the Cree brand optic.
I think you need to cut some grooves on the bottom of them to give your wire clearance.

Cheers 
Dom


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## _I_ (Jun 23, 2007)

Thank you for the offer poobardog but I went ahead and faxed in an order to Led-spot last night. Ended up going with the 7' smooth spot and 14' Medium. The medium may be wider than I need but looking at some beam shots I did want a bit wider than many people are achieving even if it isn't as intense over the wider angle, and since I'll have more than one of the smooth spot I could just use two of those.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

_I_ said:


> Are the SCCs really brighter? Now there are Q4/Q5 Crees and most comparisons seem to use a bluer SCC. They're both using the same LED die anyway aren't they? I am not convinced we can say either brand is inherantly brighter if comparing equivalent bins of both, though the packaging is worse on the SCC, but the lens selection is better.


The new Q4/Q5 Crees are nice, but at about 3 times the price of an SSC P4 (u-bin) that puts out about the same, if not more, light, it's a value issue for me. Also, I can get optics that work well with the SSC P4 for $2 each (shipped cheaply as well). Optics for the Cree seem a little harder to come by for less than 3 or 4 times the $2 amount. So that's why I like the Seouls. It might not sound like much of a price difference, but if you are building a triple LED light, that's about $45 more into parts for a light that will be no brighter.

Regarding tint, I've experience the tint lottery with Luxeon, Cree and Seoul, and I find the Seoul no worse than the other two. Typically, no matter what brand I've bought, about one of three is off tint a little or a lot. That just seems to be the odds of my winnings. Your mileage may vary  I'm not knocking the Cree XR-E,. I think it is a great product, and I hope to see it and other brands continue to improve and provide us with more lumens per watt and dollar!

Anyway, good luck with your light!


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## _I_ (Jun 23, 2007)

Where is the cheapest place to get the SSC P4? DealExtreme just received (their first lot?) and sold out of the Q5 XR-E @ $9.36 ea delivered in a 3 pack quantity.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

_I_ said:


> Where is the cheapest place to get the SSC P4? DealExtreme just received (their first lot?) and sold out of the Q5 XR-E @ $9.36 ea delivered in a 3 pack quantity.
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394


Wow that was cheap. No wonder they sold out. I'd typically seen them for $20+.

DX normally carry the U-bin SSC P4 for $7.18 or $6.01 for 10 or more, thus my comment about the SSC being about 1/3 the price of the Cree XR-E Q5-bin.

Link to Seoul on star below. _Check polarity of LED on star, apparently some have been found to be soldered on star backwards._
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1445


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## _I_ (Jun 23, 2007)

Thanks for the link. I think I'm still set on using some derivative of the square Al tubing as housing design, so the LiLED CRS optics look the best alternative to me and since I've already ordered the parts... At worst I might just use them as in-house emergency lighting as I finally got around to installing a battery backup for our sump pump so I have a ~100AH SLA battery begging to do more than it is currently when the power goes out.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

_I_ said:


> Thanks for the link. I think I'm still set on using some derivative of the square Al tubing as housing design, so the LiLED CRS optics look the best alternative to me and since I've already ordered the parts... At worst I might just use them as in-house emergency lighting as I finally got around to installing a battery backup for our sump pump so I have a ~100AH SLA battery begging to do more than it is currently when the power goes out.


Yes, the Square Ledil optics do look great in the square tube housing... like it was meant to be  You can get them for the SSC as well.


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## _I_ (Jun 23, 2007)

Is the front of the Ledil square CRS/Cree XR-E optics package watertight? Does anyone feel that the focus using these depends on the thickness of the factory applied adhesive tape? What I mean is, if the adhesive used was thinner (as thin as possible) than caused by the original tape, not thicker. I realize this means even more modification to make clearance for the soldered-down wires.

I ask because I envisioned being able to water and dustproof the star + optics glued together as an assembly, IF the optics front and sides are completely sealed. Of course I'd have to also allow for the supply wires but sealing around those would be fairly trivial compared to trying to seal (especially the front of) the optics w/o stray sealant effecting the light output pattern.

Also, does anyone have a (another) lead on a submini toggle switch sized, waterproof boot? For example,
http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=16311+SW
though ideally a shorter one that would fit a 1/2 length toggle.


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## STS01 (Dec 29, 2005)

_I_ said:


> Also, does anyone have a (another) lead on a submini toggle switch sized, waterproof boot? For example,
> https://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=16311+SW
> though ideally a shorter one that would fit a 1/2 length toggle.


I don't have any sense how big that one is bu if you mean one like the one below they are available from Jaycar https://www.jaycar.com.au/ here in Australia so I assume they should be readily available at equivalent stores in the US


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## _I_ (Jun 23, 2007)

STS01 said:


> I don't have any sense how big that one is bu if you mean one like the one below they are available from Jaycar http://www.jaycar.com.au/ here in Australia so I assume they should be readily available at equivalent stores in the US


Thanks. I found that boot on Jaycar's site and it does look a little higher quality than the one I linked. The one I linked and the Jaycar look to fit a mini toggle with approx 5mm diameter thread and ~ 10-12 mm lever. Eventually I hope to find a similar boot that fits a mini toggle with a shorter ~ 6mm lever.

To followup on my other question (my optics arrived today), they don't have a watertight seal around the lens and holder top, water could wick into the tight seam around it but especially into a gap on one side where there is also a surface irregularity I'll have to file off to flatten if I attempted to use a gasket type of seal instead of a liquid-fill type of seal. I might just try filling that side gap between lens and holder with a tiny bit of epoxy, putting some masking tape over the top of the lens and spraying a clear-coat *paint* around the perimeter of the top as the seam looks tight enough that would probably seal it. At worst I only ruin one lens and can compare the outcome to one un-altered.

Another interesting possiblity would be to coat the perimeter with a thin layer of silicone caulking (-like) material which would both seal the perimeter of the lens-holder junction and add a fraction of a millimeter diameter while remaining flexible enough to compress a bit and potentially create a water-tight seal. It might just get messy trying to apply it, I'll have to dig around and see if I have a spare syringe I could use as an applicator. Wish I had a camera to take pictures of my processes but mine broke and had to be RMA'd under warranty (and I can't bring myself to buy another until I get it back, just in case they really fix it this time). I'd get some kind of picture of the lens side up but for the time being it'll have to be a scanned image.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

I find it easiest to just put a thin (1/16") piece of optical grade Lexan or Plexiglass across the front of the light housing. It is held in place and sealed with silicone caulk. I'm assuming you're using the square aluminum tubing design. It is possible to run a thin bead of silicone around each Ledil lens within the tubing, as you mentioned, but it is difficult to keep from looking messy. Use ammonia-based window cleaner to clean excess silicone, not alcohol.


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## _I_ (Jun 23, 2007)

Yes I already built the square housing, but I don't have any 1/16" optical grade plexi. My non-optical grade lexan is 1/4" which I think too thick, will block too high a % of light, and spending more on a sheet of lexan than it would cost to replace the optics doesn't seem a good move unless I start riding in more severe conditions than rain. That is, if the following works to make it water-tight in front I may not need the debris protection much.

When I wrote about caulking, I was not going to insert the lens and then squeeze it into the gap, I was going to put a bead around the lens alone, and let that bead set completely so it's like a built-on gasket before putting lens in the light housing. The gasket would compress some when pressed into the housing, and if the bead is close enough to the right thickness, "hopefully" creating a water-tight (or at least much closer to it) seal. Another alternative I considered was using thin strips of rubber, held on by a non-volatile solvent based rubber cement. Some of these ideas are based around the materials I have already, though I am still considering 1/16" lexan as I may find more uses for the rest of the sheet later.


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## aljsk8 (Jul 19, 2006)

just finished my triple cree

had 2 in it for a while but just added the 3rd

3 x p4 @ 1000ma

1 inch aluminium tube frame with nice carbon covering

pics....



















tried it last night in the woods - simply awsome!


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## aljsk8 (Jul 19, 2006)

why is my post right up there ^ when i was the last poster?

anyway go have a look at it! lol!

heres the initial build on C.P.F...... http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=166804

Alex


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

Welcome to MTBR!

To fix your view, up the top of the page, change the display mode to linear and things should fall in to order. 

Dave.


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## aljsk8 (Jul 19, 2006)

thanks

fixed it now

Alex


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

aljsk8 said:


> why is my post right up there ^ when i was the last poster?
> 
> anyway go have a look at it! lol!
> 
> ...


Very nice light!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

adrenalnjunky pm'd me on this one, but I thought others might have pondered this same issue or tested the thermal transfer properties of JB -Weld compared to AAA, so I copied the mail here:



adrenalnjunky said:


> currently I've got a workbench full of a couple of your original double and triple housing designs - although I made a small assembly error - I glued the 1/16 LED mounting plat to the back portion using JB Weld instead of AAA. Is this going to be a significant issue? Nothing is assembled completely yet, and I might be able to chisel the 1/16 plate off and start over.
> 
> Also, my first attempt was done primarily with a dremel and a scroll saw - the cuts aren't perfect, and there are some gaps. I was actually considering JB welding the back piece to the front piece, basically fusing them together, and using the JB weld to seal the gaps.. I figure I can chisel them apart if I need to rewire anything down the road? Or would something like silicone sealant be better?
> 
> ...


I haven't tested the thermal transfer properties of JB, so I don't know how it compares to AAA, which is designed to do that. It would be interesting to do a test: heat a piece of JB welded aluminum and another piece of AAA'd and compare the how quickly the temp rises in the heatsink piece between the two.

As for JB welding the front section on, that's up to you... I'd probably use silicone.
- Good luck


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## captn_kirchoff (Mar 2, 2007)

*jb weld*

My friend and I used JB Weld to epoxy down our bare emitters on our first triples. We've been using them close to a year under heavy use with no reliability problems. That's not to say that there might not be some performance compromised from the leds getting a little bit warmer (their efficiency goes down as temp goes up). I tried, but couldn't find the thermal coefficient for JB Weld or AAA.

It's a really thin layer of epoxy, so I figured the differance would be minimal between JB and AAA. Most (all?) aluminum tubing is anodized (ie non-conducting oxide layer), so you don't need to worry about shorting out the emitters... so squish 'em down. If you're using star PCB's, the thickness of the epoxy divided by area (which is multiplied by the thermal coefficient) is really small... so I really wouldn't worry about JB Weld on star pcbs.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Interesting. Thanks.
Most of the aluminum that I use is NOT anodized, thus very conductive! I wish I could find a good source of already anodized 1" square aluminum tubing. Anyone?


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## _I_ (Jun 23, 2007)

My 1" Al tubing wasn't anodized either, and while it did have the typical very thin oxide layer that wasn't enough to stop even sub-1V conduction from a multimeter test. 

I think anodized tubing would be significantly more expensive as you're then dealing with finished specialty piece pricing instead of raw metal pricing. I came really close to trying to anodize mine, bought some battery acid for the sulfuric acid bath process and some black Rit dye, even emailed off to Arctic Silver to ask if their epoxy was ok in sulfuric acid as I had wanted to do the whole assembly at once, but they never got back to me and while I waited I decided it would be better to finish mine w/o anodizing it instead of putting it on a shelf where it might not get finished when I got distracted by some other projects soon requiring my attention.

Regarding JBWeld's thermal transfer, it's not as good as AAA even if a very thin layer but at least having it very thin mitigates the effect as does the large star to tubing interface (so long as a lot of pressure is applied and the JBWeld is applied while still very fluid which is difficult with the 4 (or 5?) minute quick-set type. 

Given the time and cost I would advise using the AAA. It also stays more elastic after set while JBWeld is a bit crumbly and fracture prone. Especially the quick 4 or 5 minute JBWeld, it's not nearly as resistant to this as the slow-set type but slow setting parts and waiting a day for them to dry is a drag when you're anxious to get it finished.

I was anxious to get part of my light done so I put the two halves of the front lens housing piece together with quick set JBWeld (two halves instead of 3 because I made mine a double (XR-E) instead of triple). When attaching the back tube to the front I first wrapped some fine grit sandpaper around the back tube and worked it back and forth against the back of the front assembly until it made a very flush interface, then I epoxied that together with AAA. As a result the front gets hotter than I expected it to, it's obviously helping to 'sink away heat fairly well.


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## kmacon (Nov 15, 2006)

achesalot said:


> Interesting. Thanks.
> Most of the aluminum that I use is NOT anodized, thus very conductive! I wish I could find a good source of already anodized 1" square aluminum tubing. Anyone?


Allen, I am getting ready to put together one of your Achesalot inspired lights and am considering anodizing and coloring the case before I put the electronics in. I did a google search on "DIY anodizing" and came up with a lot of home made settups that look fairly straight forward to do :skep: . Could add a lot of flair to our DIY lights. If I decide to tackle it I will report back with the results.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Cool. I've looked into anodizing as well, but have never gone for it. Maybe one day.
Yes, by all means let us know how it turns out.


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## jims (Aug 3, 2004)

achesalot, what happened to your web site?


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Hmmm. My ISP must be having problems. I will shoot them an email, but the problem looks like a DNS problem that should get straightened out by tomorrow.

Thanks for letting me know about it.


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## rockymtnway (Nov 14, 2004)

According to my take from this cite in Wiki, thermal grease is about 10x more effective than regular epoxy, but both suck compared to silver, copper or aluminum. Then again, anything is better than air.

Guess it's time to start working on my diamond heat sinks.


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## _I_ (Jun 23, 2007)

On components that have very high heat density, good thermal grease is important. For components that have only moderately low heat density like these LEDs on stars, a specifically "thermally conductive" epoxy will be fine. To each their own opinion but I wouldn't use a generic multipurpose epoxy like JBWeld if putting more than ~350mA through each LED, not just because of worse performance but also that this close to a heat source it may not hold up so well over time, it is a rigid, more brittle epoxy with a different coefficient of expansion than the Al tubing and star.

The main factor in 'sinking these is the size of the heatsink itself, and of course that this size goes up as you approach 1A or more current per LED or put more of them adjacent to each other on the same piece of tubing.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

My bikeled.org website is back up... no thanks to my ISP, but I finally, figured it out. They moved all of the files from one server a new one, but did not organize them just as they previously were. How nice of them.


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## redbeans (Dec 15, 2005)

achesalot said:


> My bikeled.org website is back up...


Great news. Great site.


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## batvette (Dec 10, 2006)

_I_ said:


> Yes I already built the square housing, but I don't have any 1/16" optical grade plexi. My non-optical grade lexan is 1/4" which I think too thick, will block too high a % of light, and spending more on a sheet of lexan than it would cost to replace the optics doesn't seem a good move unless I start riding in more severe conditions than rain. That is, if the following works to make it water-tight in front I may not need the debris protection much.
> 
> When I wrote about caulking, I was not going to insert the lens and then squeeze it into the gap, I was going to put a bead around the lens alone, and let that bead set completely so it's like a built-on gasket before putting lens in the light housing. The gasket would compress some when pressed into the housing, and if the bead is close enough to the right thickness, "hopefully" creating a water-tight (or at least much closer to it) seal. Another alternative I considered was using thin strips of rubber, held on by a non-volatile solvent based rubber cement. Some of these ideas are based around the materials I have already, though I am still considering 1/16" lexan as I may find more uses for the rest of the sheet later.


I picked up a 18 x 24 sheet of 1/8 lexan at Home Depot a few months back, when the refurb Viewsonic 22" widescreen monitor I got at Fry's.com didn't have a glass or plastic screen filter like the Xerox it replaced. (it's in a home workshop with power tools and chemicals and other nasties, I also like the depth the filter adds to images. Measured down to 64ths, cut it on the table saw, press fit perfect. Cost a whopping $12.

One use you may not have thought of.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

*New Beam Shots*

Hey guys. Not much going on lately, but my friend Regina did loan me her L&M HID light so that I could take some comparison shots. Here you go:










The Triple SSC AL is the light in this thread.
The Triple SSC CH is my Copperhead.
All shots at (F2.8, 1/4 sec, ISO 200)
You can get a little more info at my website.
-Allen


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

Hey Allen, think your ISP is messing with you again!
site down.

nevermind, back up!!!!!!! cool, new updates


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

sxr-racer said:


> Hey Allen, think your ISP is messing with you again!
> site down.
> 
> nevermind, back up!!!!!!! cool, new updates


Thanks. Yeah, I guess they were twiddling with it.
I hope to post a new dual MC-E project by Thanksgiving... if I get the parts!


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

I finally got my AAA, started gluing the heat sink yesterday, need to go and glue the stars. What do you use to adhere the optic holders with? Silicone? Ordered the Luxem ones from Led Supply


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3600

Holy crap. I ordered this same battery a month ago or so for $52.00.


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

nearly swore on a forum then :eekster: 
$$ took a pounding remember like the rest of the world.
A month ago I was paying $2.1 to the £ 
Yesterday I was nearly crying when I had to exchange at $1.52.
And I have shipping on top of that!! Not with battery space though


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## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

sxr-racer said:


> http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3600
> 
> Holy crap. I ordered this same battery a month ago or so for $52.00.


http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3347

This is just the same except with a nice cord and connector, no? I've never understood the pricing on Batteryspace... some of it seem very arbitrary, there really is no reason or rhyme to the pricing scheme.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

sxr-racer said:


> http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3600
> 
> Holy crap. I ordered this same battery a month ago or so for $52.00.


I ordered 2, about 6 weeks ago at $52 as well... ouch


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

I had my first light failure last night... it turned out to be the batterypack. I think the connector on my light (which is getting loose - a couple of years old) might have shorted and tripped the poly-switch which is part of the short-circuit protection on the Li-Ion battery pack. I took the PCB off of the battery pack, and the batteries check out fine, so I figure the board is fried. Then I read on batteryspace forums that plugging the battery back into the charger will reset the poly-switch... so resoldered the PCB back onto the pack and it's on my charger now. I will let you know how it turns out. If it doesn't work, a new PCB is only $7.00

EDIT: Yep, that fixed it. Now I wish I hadn't torn my battery pack all apart 
But, at least it's fixed.


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

Achesalot, The polyswitch is re-settable by itself as its an over current device, actually each li-ion cell will have its own under the positive cap of the cell, plus its common practise to put one overall one in-circuit within the built pack. 
Its the protection circuit that tripped and needed re-setting through the charger, usually a couple of minutes if that resets it.


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

Hack On Wheels said:


> http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3347
> 
> This is just the same except with a nice cord and connector, no? I've never understood the pricing on Batteryspace... some of it seem very arbitrary, there really is no reason or rhyme to the pricing scheme.


That one been out of stock for a while now!!!!!!!!!


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

smudgemtbuk said:


> Achesalot, The polyswitch is re-settable by itself as its an over current device, actually each li-ion cell will have its own under the positive cap of the cell, plus its common practise to put one overall one in-circuit within the built pack.
> Its the protection circuit that tripped and needed re-setting through the charger, usually a couple of minutes if that resets it.


Thanks for clarifying. I didn't really see how the charger could reset the poly switch after reading about how they work. But anyway, it did somehow reset the protection circuit. I'm a little worried about the pack though. It only charged up to 16 volts, and it should be nearly 16.8v when charged... so I might have a bad cell.


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

Started mounting and wiring everything up last night. I think I figured out every possible thing to do wrong!!!!!!!!. But, just need to add the cord to the battery and figure out how I am going to mount the light and it will be ready for Wed Night.


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## Hambonio (Jul 16, 2008)

aches,

Do you think the Triple Seoul is brighter than the Triple Cree? I have built the Triple Cree(almost finished), and by shining on the wall, a 15 degree L2 Seoul(In a DIY Dinotte) seems brighter than a "Medium" Ledil in the Cree light. 1 amp Buckpuck on the Cree, and a cheap DX (.8amp)on the Seoul.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Hambonio said:


> aches,
> 
> Do you think the Triple Seoul is brighter than the Triple Cree? I have built the Triple Cree(almost finished), and by shining on the wall, a 15 degree L2 Seoul(In a DIY Dinotte) seems brighter than a "Medium" Ledil in the Cree light. 1 amp Buckpuck on the Cree, and a cheap DX (.8amp)on the Seoul.


That depends on which bins you are talking about of each, and how lucky you are.
As you might already know, the Seouls are not binned as tightly as the Crees, therefore they will be more prone to flux variation within a bin. Let's compare each @350mA:

Seoul P4 (U bin) 91 - 118.5 lumen (27 lumen variation)
Cree XR-E (Q3-bin) 93 - 100 lumen
Cree XR-E (Q4-bin) 100 - 107 lumen
Cree XR-E (Q5-bin) 107 - 114 lumen
Cree XR-E (R2-bin) 114-122 lumen

So you see that depending on your luck with the SSC P4 U-bin, it might be the same output as a Cree XR-E (R2) or if you're unlucky, similar to a Cree XR-E (Q2 or Q3).

I've been happier with the lenses that I've used on the SSC than the Cree. Actually I mix one reflector with 2 lenses to get a beam I'm really happy with. I'm about to start on a Cree MC-E endeavor whenever my parts get in. Getting the right optic for that seems to be the current issue for many folks and much experimentation awaits  Having the right optics can really make a big difference in how happy you will be with your light.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Seoul now split the U bin into U1 & U2 but I never see them for sale, they are still only being descrlbed as "U" bin.

I know they exist as a few have them on CPF.


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

Got lights wired up last night...... ran into some problems. while drilling the holes for the wires, when the drill punched through it bottomed out right on the star grinding through the soldering tab. I tried to coat it with plastic dip, but that did not work, when you turn the lights off, the first light stays on. Just going to break the connection to the star and solder to the LED itself.
Arrggggg.


But I learned not to look into the light!!!!!!!!!! man those buggers are bright!


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

ok, went home at lunch, the wire between #1 and 2 led was shorted to the body, guess it melted durning soldering. who knows, took about 3 times to get a wire soldered that was not shorting...... Works now. Just have to glue the optic holders down.


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

Got the optics installed today, tried them out in the back yard.......... well, at the inlaws........ But they work now!!!!!!!!!!!

Woohoo..........


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Glad you got the problems worked out. I use silicone glue to hold the optics in. Easy to remove later.


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

That is what I did........ Had some more freetime, went into the inlaws basement and got most of the cuts done for my second set complete, just have to finish the notch out for the heat sink. Hey Allen, have you ever just used 3 - 5 degree optics on the helmet light???


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

forgot to post back......... Used the light about a week and a half ago.......... WOW. That is all I need to say.... 2nd light head is almost done, it will be bar mounted........ No money for second battery, will piggy back off the big battery for a while.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

sxr-racer said:


> That is what I did........ Had some more freetime, went into the inlaws basement and got most of the cuts done for my second set complete, just have to finish the notch out for the heat sink. Hey Allen, have you ever just used 3 - 5 degree optics on the helmet light???


No. I don't like too much of a spotlight. Some of my earlier lights were very spot-lighty. I was using 3 narrow beam reflectors. The lights had a lot of throw, but I felt like I was riding in a narrow tunnel.

Lately I've been riding with just the helmet light. It's a triple SSC w/ 2x15 optics and one of those reflectors (IMS 20) that has been modified. I love the beam I get from that light. It has a good combination of flood and throw.

Fast riders might like more spot, to throw further down the trail, but I'm kinda slow. About 10 or 11 mph is typically as fast as I go, as our trails are very twisty and I don't like to crash.


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## dan1million (Aug 16, 2009)

achesalot said:


> No. I don't like too much of a spotlight. Some of my earlier lights were very spot-lighty. I was using 3 narrow beam reflectors. The lights had a lot of throw, but I felt like I was riding in a narrow tunnel.
> 
> Lately I've been riding with just the helmet light. It's a triple SSC w/ 2x15 optics and one of those reflectors (IMS 20) that has been modified. I love the beam I get from that light. It has a good combination of flood and throw.
> 
> Fast riders might like more spot, to throw further down the trail, but I'm kinda slow. About 10 or 11 mph is typically as fast as I go, as our trails are very twisty and I don't like to crash.


I totally agree with the whole spotlight thing - I built a Seoul P7 light which was great but a little too narrow.... i recently changed to 3xP7 see link in my sig line.... it is a bit more floody and a bit more light with enough throw not to worry about going quick

PS nice work on this build/ info thread btw.

-Dan


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