# Would you buy a new vintage-style MTB?



## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

Something that has been on my mind for a long time. Would you buy - or even better, have you commissioned - a brand new, vintage-style mountain bike? Retro-modding is fine (not a slavish reproduction), but something that hits all the hallmarks: rigid (+non-corrected), thumb shifters and rim brakes.

I'm not really that interested in a "new bikes are way better" discussion. The angle I'm after is more along the lines of given your interest in, and likely baptism by a now vintage ride, is there a place in your fleet for a non-vintage, vintage-style bike? And, if so, would you spend real money to make it happen?


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Did that myself. WTB rollercams in 2017 (with 29 inch wheels).


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Cool idea, but the market for it would be pretty small. I would not spend money on a bike with no practical use where I live, even though it looks great.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

DoubleCentury said:


> Did that myself. WTB rollercams in 2017 (with 29 inch wheels).
> 
> View attachment 1173291


I did something similar, but less on your Grail-like scale. This is also a 29er.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

As long as I didn't have to give up on 29er wheels? Sure. 

Actually, gives me an idea. 

29+, retro build. Hmm. 

No money this year, (damn hernia surgery), it'll have to wait.....


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Yes. I really wasn't interested in a 90's geared frame with NORBA geometry or disc brakes. The parts hung on her are completely different now, but still classy.

ETA- The other frame.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

mainlyfats said:


> I did something similar, but less on your Grail-like scale. This is also a 29er.
> View attachment 1173295


that is one awesome looking bike :thumbsup:


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## Victor1977 (Feb 16, 2017)

I believe in most cases it would not make sense. Modern and new bikes are expensive but you get better geometry, lighter materials etc. If I would give out a lot of money on a new bike I would buy something modern, fast and agile. There are probably some examples of cool looking retro-style bikes such as the bike above but at what cost? For me it would then make more sense to get an older frame and build it up with modern components. Or combine old and new components. An old (rare) 90's steel frame with some 29" wheels gives me more pleasure then a "replica" kind off mass produced frame.
Don't get me wrong, love retro looks, have more retro bikes then "modern" ones. But why spending a lot of money when you can get it cheaper and more nostalgic.

PS. I sure do love the looks of that green bike above


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Geometry is so different now. Do you mean vintage geometry as well? 71 /73 angles? 120 /130 stems? 41.5in wheelbase? Yeah.. i would. As long as it has a rigid fork.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> As long as I didn't have to give up on 29er wheels? Sure.
> 
> Actually, gives me an idea.
> 
> ...


I will throw all my money on a gall bladder surgery. It´s my xtmas time.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

Hmm - that's an interesting thought, Flavio. Long stems are pretty much custom items now, so I think that battle has been lost. I don't think I'd really pay money today for 1 inch threaded steerers either.


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## phattruth (Apr 22, 2012)

I have wanted to do a modern retro build for a while now. I love the Gallus in your post. I would want disc brakes, a short stem, slack geometry and 27.5+ wheels though. Technically 650b and slack geometry are vintage.

When I can gather the funds I intend on having a retro klunker custom made.


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> 29+, retro build. Hmm.
> 
> No money this year, (damn hernia surgery), it'll have to wait.....


Hernia? Yeah, there's an ad for those heavy 29er+ bikes.



Seriously, ouch, sorry to hear it, and hope all's going good with the recovery.

Grumps


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

mainlyfats said:


> he angle I'm after is more along the lines of given your interest in, and likely baptism by a now vintage ride, is there a place in your fleet for a non-vintage, vintage-style bike? And, if so, would you spend real money to make it happen?


Yes. Because I get bored and like to tinker with stuff. A vintage style frame with rim brakes and thumbies but with 27.5" wheels has an appeal.

Alternatively, no, because there's a lot of vintage frames to build up and enjoy that deserve a new lease of life.

I have enough projects now before I go designing something specific but my mind does wander to such project ideas. 

Grumps


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> 29+, retro build. Hmm.
> 
> No money this year, (damn hernia surgery), it'll have to wait.....


Sorry to hear about this. You're close enough, wish I could make you an honorary Canadian...

Most of the push back I get on this seems to come from current bike industry friends, so I'm particularly interested in your take. When I worked in shops we were the taste makers and our best customers wanted to put their own personal spin on what we were doing. You could tell what shop folks frequented by their rides and the best shops were the ones that moved farthest from the corporate bike industry model.

That doesn't seem to be the way anymore...

I remember the era of the do-it-all MTB (it's a tourer, it's a racer, it's a commuter) fondly and the betrayal on the faces of folks bringing in the pooched Quadra 21r - that the industry forced on them - after 9 months of dirty commuter life. Those people are now in peak earning years.

Is it nostalgia if the old tool works 75% as well 95% of the time? Is there really no market for a - admittedly slightly-tweaked - throwback MTB?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

mainlyfats said:


> Sorry to hear about this. You're close enough, wish I could make you an honorary Canadian...
> 
> Most of the push back I get on this seems to come from current bike industry friends, so I'm particularly interested in your take. When I worked in shops we were the taste makers and our best customers wanted to put their own personal spin on what we were doing. You could tell what shop folks frequented by their rides and the best shops were the ones that moved farthest from the corporate bike industry model.
> 
> ...


I think there is. However, with economies of scale, it's tough to get anybody to keep producing 26" tires which is the real problem with a 26" throwback mtb. But with the other wheel sizes, the slightly modernized steel frames retro look is going strong with handmade framemakers in the US. It'll cost you but they're doing it. And they're gorgeous. I like what monkeywrench did with those Potts 650b that it offered. You don't have to be an absolute purist in the sense that you would do a threaded steerer, 130-140mm stem, or room for 1.9 tires to be vintage inspired, IMHO.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> Hmm - that's an interesting thought, Flavio. Long stems are pretty much custom items now, so I think that battle has been lost. I don't think I'd really pay money today for 1 inch threaded steerers either.


Hmmm.. Seems 1in threaded is more forgiving than oversized ahead systems. If i am not using suspension, i could go w/ 1in threaded and a custom stem/ bar set up.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> I think there is. However, with economies of scale, it's tough to get anybody to keep producing 26" tires which is the real problem with a 26" throwback mtb. But with the other wheel sizes, the slightly modernized steel frames retro look is going strong with handmade framemakers in the US. It'll cost you but they're doing it. And they're gorgeous. I like what monkeywrench did with those Potts 650b that it offered. You don't have to be an absolute purist in the sense that you would do a threaded steerer, 130-140mm stem, or room for 1.9 tires to be vintage inspired, IMHO.


Don´t forget the demise of rims made for rim braking. How vintage is a disc brake bicycle?


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## rockychrysler (Aug 9, 2003)

colker1 said:


> Don´t forget the demise of rims made for rim braking. How vintage is a disc brake bicycle?


plenty vintage, actually.








ca 1992


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## Squeeze (Apr 14, 2015)

I live where the trails are mostly hard-packed dirt and gravel. Not many trees or bouncy/bumpy roots as MTBing back east where I'm from, so I get by just fine on a '90s rigid MTB.

So yes, I'd buy one, in principle.

However, I could go buy a new Surly Long Haul Trucker with 26" wheels and rim brakes, but I don't. 

I would rather ride an older rigid MTB for low cost, yes, but also for the fun of finding them on craigslist, keeping an old bike running well - sort of like the old car guys, but so much cheaper and easier - and for, I've gotta admit, the "cool factor", which may only exist in my head, but it does exist.


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## Victor1977 (Feb 16, 2017)

That's exactly my opinion too. Saving an old mtb from the junkyard for less money is a lot more fun.


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## unicrown junkie (Nov 12, 2009)

Has to be a good reproduction of a classic ride, why would I waste my money on a retro something or other? Give me that Breezer I should have bought in 93 or a RM Altitude, or go back to the 85-87 Stumpy Team and I'm all in.

STILL can't get used to this crazy new-fangled RM Element I bought a couple of years ago. How do you guys get used to all that wiggle in the back end?!!

oh yeah, almost forgot. 26 or die! (grin)


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Squeeze said:


> I live where the trails are mostly hard-packed dirt and gravel. Not many trees or bouncy/bumpy roots as MTBing back east where I'm from, so I get by just fine on a '90s rigid MTB.
> 
> So yes, I'd buy one, in principle.
> 
> ...


That´s how i feel except:
i like east coast type trails on east coast vintage bikes.
That surly is a tank.

Everything else is my exact mindset.
Not to mention how easy on the eyes are old school paint schemes.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

rockychrysler said:


> plenty vintage, actually.
> 
> View attachment 1173477
> 
> ca 1992


Bah

VeloBase.com - Component: Phil Wood disk brake

VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano 3.3.3


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

colker1 said:


> I will throw all my money on a gall bladder surgery. It´s my xtmas time.


Oh lovely, hope that recovery is less hassle than mine!!


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Uncle Grumpy said:


> Hernia? Yeah, there's an ad for those heavy 29er+ bikes.


Nice..... 

Thanks, all better now, but a month off the bike got pretty old.

Glad it's done but don't recommend it to anyone looking for a good time!


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

mainlyfats said:


> Sorry to hear about this. You're close enough, wish I could make you an honorary Canadian...


The whole experience was eye opening to someone who hasn't been in the hospital for much of anything since their kid was born 20+ years ago...

I'd have taken you up on that in a heartbeat were it possible, our system sucks soooo bad. Don't be fooled by the misty eyed bullsh*t about us having the best medical system in the world!

The industry has gotten much bigger, and greedier. As such, most shops seem to have gone the way of becoming "brand centers", and since they now have inventory crammed down their throats, and are then told how much they have to sell it for, or face the consequences, the groms who staff the floor, are all commissioned, and are taught one thing, sell, new, bikes, at all cost.

I think there are still enthusiast/tuner/independent shops out there (mine included) but you need to seek them out, and find the one that works for you.

I'm happy to build you the latest in full sus Fatbikes, or work with you to build that Richard Sachs CX frame with all vintage Campy lovingly sourced over the last 10 years, or, anything in between.

Just met a guy who runs a shop in downtown, that focuses on city and commuter rigs. Sells Surly and Rivendell, plus a few Euro city brands. Loves a good project.

We're out there.

But yeah, the *industry* doesn't care much about passion or individuality anymore, they only count units and SKU's, and try to keep their corporate overlords appeased, I feel for them.....


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Surlys are super heavy. And they don't feel all that great compared to ANY of my vintage bikes - and this is just commuting on pavement/light dirt roads. Must be horrendous on actual dirt. I got one and got rid of it within 6 months. I doubt I would get another. They look alright though.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

colker1 said:


> I will throw all my money on a gall bladder surgery. It´s my xtmas time.


It's fun, I did that this year... except mine was all free. Trip to emergency with Jaundice included, woot.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

colker1 said:


> Don´t forget the demise of rims made for rim braking. How vintage is a disc brake bicycle?


I have some ceramic rims stashed, but in reality, there's enough Sun Ryno Lytes left out there to last the rest of my life. It's not the most sexy choice, but it's totally practical.

Disc tabs on frames and the IS brake standard rolled out around 2001.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

girlonbike said:


> Surlys are super heavy. And they don't feel all that great compared to ANY of my vintage bikes - and this is just commuting on pavement/light dirt roads. Must be horrendous on actual dirt. I got one and got rid of it within 6 months. I doubt I would get another. They look alright though.


Man, beating on the *little* guy that still loves steel (in a world filled with plastic shite), what the hell forum did I find myself in??? 

Don't know about you, but 5 Surlys out last night (3: fat, 2: 29+), and I heard nary a lick of complaint, nor was anyone so far behind, or slow, that they didn't have huge grins.

I smell some princess and the pea going on..... =

How many Surlys can one buy and regularly abuse the crap out of, for the cost of a Potts, Moots, Fat, et al, too?


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mik_git said:


> It's fun, I did that this year... except mine was all free. Trip to emergency with Jaundice included, woot.


I tried the free one but you are supposed to be on the verge of dying of septicemia to apply here otherwise it´s not urgent enough.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Man, beating on the *little* guy that still loves steel (in a world filled with plastic shite), what the hell forum did I find myself in???
> 
> Don't know about you, but 5 Surlys out last night (3: fat, 2: 29+), and I heard nary a lick of complaint, nor was anyone so far behind, or slow, that they didn't have huge grins.
> 
> ...


well.. there are options in between like Soma, All City, velo orange, Salsa(they change their line up all the time so i don´t know) and Ritchey. 
Some people love their Surlys and some think of them as the thick oversize side of steel.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Vader said:


> I have some ceramic rims stashed, but in reality, there's enough Sun Ryno Lytes left out there to last the rest of my life. It's not the most sexy choice, but it's totally practical.
> 
> Disc tabs on frames and the IS brake standard rolled out around 2001.


Now we need to find tires to survive till some genius decides to ressurrect the 26in.

Why did the industry decide to kill the 26in is beyond logic when you know that the main game now is fat x really fat. Does it matter if your wheel is 26 x 3.0 or 27.5 x 2.6?
Everyone who was happy to get the world rid of the 26in now has to buy another frame w/clearances for 3.0 tires and the new disc brake standard. 
The obsolescence in the mtb world is stupid.


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## unicrown junkie (Nov 12, 2009)

I finally broke the dropout on my Crosscheck almost exactly a year ago after commuting and off-roadin' on the steel beast.

Thought quite a few times about getting a true off-road rig from them but it wasn't just weight penalty I didn't like. I can live with that, but after getting a Soma for the road and noticing the ride quality was light years ahead that ended my idea of any regular bike from them, the only thing I would consider is a phat bike since they basically brought them to the market. 

Moots, you said it. I'll take a new Moots with 650b or have them make a custom 26" Ybb over a Surly, Salsa, or any other modern production ride, of course Steve Potts works just as well. Depending on the amount and style of riding I suspect one would never break a Moots, unlike my Surly.


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

As far as retro goes, this tickles my fancy. I fell in love with bicycles for the third time in my life when I found fat bikes. The first time was when I bought a brand new yellow Mongoose frame in the late 70's. The second was when I bought my first mountain bike (a Raleigh Technium). I could see getting one of these to play on.

Fat Ripper 26" - Retro Series, Bikes | SEBikes.com


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

girlonbike said:


> I like what monkeywrench did with those Potts 650b that it offered.


Monkeywrench was a real eye-opener when I visited in the fall. They were prepping a Potts for sale to be shipped to a second home in Canada, then on to the customer's real home in China. They offer an industry-bucking product that focuses on hand-craft/core values over high-tech/innovation and found a global audience. 
Their business and brand are synonymous with vintage and business is good.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> The industry has gotten much bigger, and greedier. As such, most shops seem to have gone the way of becoming "brand centers", and since they now have inventory crammed down their throats, and are then told how much they have to sell it for, or face the consequences, the groms who staff the floor, are all commissioned, and are taught one thing, sell, new, bikes, at all cost.
> 
> But yeah, the *industry* doesn't care much about passion or individuality anymore, they only count units and SKU's, and try to keep their corporate overlords appeased, I feel for them.....


30/60/90 manufacturer terms meshed with earlier and earlier product delivery pretty much sunk the shop I worked in. Real hard for northern climate shops to make that 60 day payment when there's still snow on the ground... Big brands seem even more obsessed with model-year revolution over innovation and tech-shaming their best customers.

As a fetishist, it's been weird to watch the special-ness of top-end bikes be diminished by the industry and the rise of in-house component sub-brands. The last hold-out seemed to be cross, but the industry has caught up and even that is now dominated by out-of-the-box rides.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> I smell some princess and the pea going on..... =


Ha! Surly's are farm-equipment tough. There is some awesome mid-western sensibility built into every one.

pvd - who used to hang out here - had a scathing blog post about the fashion for stout 70's style bikes a couple of years ago. I don't completely agree, but absolutely see his point. Progress the eternal devil to my vintage-loving angel.

https://www.peterverdone.com/garbage-pail-bikes/


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> 30/60/90 manufacturer terms meshed with earlier and earlier product delivery pretty much sunk the shop I worked in. Real hard for northern climate shops to make that 60 day payment when there's still snow on the ground... Big brands seem even more obsessed with model-year revolution over innovation and tech-shaming their best customers.
> 
> As a fetishist, it's been weird to watch the special-ness of top-end bikes be diminished by the industry and the rise of in-house component sub-brands. The last hold-out seemed to be cross, but the industry has caught up and even that is now dominated by out-of-the-box rides.


That is why i would be good w/ a threaded 1" steerer, a nitto stem and friction shifters. Just for the cool aspect i would sink my money in such a bike and otoh i know it works and covers my needs. 
I remember a review of the first Rivendell all rounder, before they even had the Atlantis.. There was a pic of the bike being ridden down a trail drop, sporting road drop bars. I would like to have a bike like that... an All Rounder, done in all the glorious 70/ 80s tech.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

A Rivendell Hunqapillar fits the criteria.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Man, beating on the *little* guy that still loves steel (in a world filled with plastic shite), what the hell forum did I find myself in???
> 
> Don't know about you, but 5 Surlys out last night (3: fat, 2: 29+), and I heard nary a lick of complaint, nor was anyone so far behind, or slow, that they didn't have huge grins.
> 
> ...


My comment was a steel vs steel comparison, not steel vs ti. I would get a salsa before a surly but that's just me, the princess.


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## unicrown junkie (Nov 12, 2009)

I always wondered what a Quadangle from SE would be like off-road now that they make a 26" version. That Ripper is sure one interesting bike.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> Ha! Surly's are farm-equipment tough. There is some awesome mid-western sensibility built into every one.
> 
> pvd - who used to hang out here - had a scathing blog post about the fashion for stout 70's style bikes a couple of years ago. I don't completely agree, but absolutely see his point. Progress the eternal devil to by vintage-loving angel.
> 
> https://www.peterverdone.com/garbage-pail-bikes/


I believe he woke up on a bad day and wrote this post. There are people out there w/ many high end bikes who swear their custom rivs as their best ride.
Steel forks are better than carbon in some aspects.
The blog is wrong.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

colker1 said:


> I believe he woke up on a bad day and wrote this post.


I think he takes his role as a contrarian very seriously... If I'm not mistaken, it got him banned from here.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> I think he takes his role as a contrarian very seriously... If I'm not mistaken, it got him banned from here.


It´s a good thing to question trends. Trends can be annoying most of all because they are irrational. otoh he is making up most of what´s written there. The first paragraph was promising and i thought it would be entertaing but it´s mostly BS.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

I think if you want an MTB or roadie and value superior ride characteristics, sure, Surly might not be the first choice for the weight game considerations, and they've never apologized for that. Of course, Surly shoppers aren't likely to be be fine tubeset appreciators anyway! 

However, they make a broad range of products that put durability and versatility first, and not too many other companies do that, and if they do, it's some quaint offering that sits at the back of the catalog so they can proudly cluck that they checked that box...

Soma et al make cool stuff too, but often make them more use specific. 

All depends on how you ride, and what matters. Got a crap ton of customers who are tickled pink by their Surly's, and when they break after many years of abuse, well, they still make a frame that will accept all your old parts, just like they did when you built it the first time. 

I also like that they don't force feed me inventory. I can be a stocking dealer if I want, or, onesie twosie. Not too many companies left that do that, so, kudos to them for it. 

I'd also agree, the pace of development is killing the industry. Everything is expected to be all new, all the time, and it's just pointless to pursue that, as eventually, consumers will catch onto the shell game. 

26" death? It's a shame they dropped it like a hot potato, I guess the rapid development idea no longer allows space for old product support, which used to be a hallmark of a good company, Chris King comes to mind for that.

While I don't ride them anymore, it's a royal PITA when a good customer comes in looking for a decent 26" tire, or rim, only to find they have no options beyond basic entry level stuff anymore.


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

unicrown junkie said:


> I always wondered what a Quadangle from SE would be like off-road now that they make a 26" version. That Ripper is sure one interesting bike.


Back when I rode Mongoose and Little Johns, the Ripper (20") was one of the super bikes. The Quadangle is wicked cool, too.


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## Slash5 (Nov 27, 2011)

Trek Sawyer is likely as close as you can get in a production bike.

https://archive.trekbikes.com/us/en/2012/Trek/sawyer#/us/en/2012/Trek/sawyer/details


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

girlonbike said:


> Surlys are super heavy. And they don't feel all that great compared to ANY of my vintage bikes - and this is just commuting on pavement/light dirt roads. Must be horrendous on actual dirt. I got one and got rid of it within 6 months. I doubt I would get another. They look alright though.


What model did you have?


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> I think if you want an MTB or roadie and value superior ride characteristics, sure, Surly might not be the first choice for the weight game considerations, and they've never apologized for that. Of course, Surly shoppers aren't likely to be be fine tubeset appreciators anyway!
> 
> However, they make a broad range of products that put durability and versatility first, and not too many other companies do that, and if they do, it's some quaint offering that sits at the back of the catalog so they can proudly cluck that they checked that box...
> 
> ...


I said a couple yrs ago here in vrc: i was so sick w/ how 26" was killed on basic stupidity that i would only invest in a cx and give up on mountain bikes. For other reasons, a lot of people seems to have adopted the same direction and look now at gravel and monster cross to ride on trails. A bike is also about style.
I could not care less for the differences between enduro, trail, downhill or xc bikes that cost 5k(or 10) and will be outdated/trashed in 3yrs. Who rides those things? The mtb scene has no style anymore. It is dead already and they don´t know it yet. MOuntain biking was a fad killed by it´s own obsession w/ tech, suspension and wheel size. Good riddance. Do you want planned obsolesence? Here you are now.. obsolete.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Slash5 said:


> Trek Sawyer is likely as close as you can get in a production bike.
> 
> https://archive.trekbikes.com/us/en/2012/Trek/sawyer#/us/en/2012/Trek/sawyer/details
> 
> View attachment 1173650


That´s not old school.. that´s just trying hard to be cool.


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## katsup (Jun 28, 2016)

There are a lot of vintage mountain bikes on the used market. This would be a new bike's competition, especially since the used bikes easily be found for around $100 around me. 

I'd personally just buy a vintage bike, not a new vintage style bike.


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## Len Baird (Aug 1, 2017)

I wouldn't pay for a new one when they are cheap for an actual retro/vintage bike. Good quality, well built and dirt cheap because they are outdated/out of style.


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

mainlyfats said:


> Something that has been on my mind for a long time. Would you buy - or even better, have you commissioned - a brand new, vintage-style mountain bike? Retro-modding is fine (not a slavish reproduction), but something that hits all the hallmarks: rigid (+non-corrected), thumb shifters and rim brakes.
> 
> I'm not really that interested in a "new bikes are way better" discussion. The angle I'm after is more along the lines of given your interest in, and likely baptism by a now vintage ride, is there a place in your fleet for a non-vintage, vintage-style bike? And, if so, would you spend real money to make it happen?
> 
> View attachment 1173284


Yep.

In fact, though I still ride every one of my vintage bikes on east coast NORBA trails and and my favorite rides remain my JTS and 'Ham Racer, this is my "go to" bike.









I had it built to fit and ride exactly like my favorites and I don't have to worry about damaging something irreplaceable.


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## JPL65 (Jul 20, 2008)

I was just thinking about this the other day. My current 2 favorite bikes are an early Surly 1x1 non disc and a '95[approx] Specialized Rockhopper, both full rigid. I ride everything around my area I want to ride with them, only thing I wish might be different would be a higher gear on the Rockhopper and maybe a slacker head tube angle for drop offs. I would really think about buying a new Rockhopper with an aheadset and 8 or 9 speed cassette and maybe a slightly slacker head tube angle and a little taller headtube. If I could get a new Rockhopper the exact way mine is now with fresh wheels and drivetrain I'd probably do that also.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Slash5 said:


> Trek


You lost me at Trek. :nonod:


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

colker1 said:


> Mountain biking was a fad killed by it´s own obsession w/ tech, suspension and wheel size.


It's more insidious than that.

It's money.

The pressure for constant growth of an industry that creates (what used to be at least) goods that folks would buy every 5 to 10 years? No wonder they used to let a *speed* run for 5 to 10 years before adding one, they understood the relative purchasing patterns of the majority of it's customer base.

They'd change up colors, graphics, maybe a spec or two, and save dough by not reinventing the whole line, pretty much every year like what's done now.

GROWTH GROWTH GROWTH!!!! If you aren't growing you're dying. It's such utter, contemptible bullsh$t.

God forbid any brand miss *the next big thing*, so they are all chasing each other around copy catting, rather than just hanging, out maybe passing a joint or a flask around on an after work staff rip through the local trails, coming up with their own spin on what a bike should be. They forgot not all consumers want a bike that looks like and acts like, every other brands bikes.

Frankly, the wheel size thing is what the industry has always done.

Rocky Mountain used to have I believe, 3 totally different suspension designs in their line. BMX was 20", but then dirt jumpers kinda blurred the lines. Look how long it took everyone to have a CX bike vs how long it took every brand to have a $1000 650B HT. No one can fart without everyone adding one to their lineup within a season.

Seeing and trying things differently is what gave us all sorts of cool stuff.

I love 29+, as much as I loved 29 when it came out (all over again).

Fat bikes made me realize how nice that high volume low pressure tire was for control, speed, etc.

I don't hate them for coming out with weird stuff, that's what a unique, niche industry should be doing.

Force feeding ever increasing volumes of inventory down consumers throats because the board needs to see 15% growth this year in order for the CEO to get his bonus? Now there's your problem.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

JPL65 said:


> I was just thinking about this the other day. My current 2 favorite bikes are an early Surly 1x1 non disc and a '95[approx] Specialized Rockhopper, both full rigid. I ride everything around my area I want to ride with them, only thing I wish might be different would be a higher gear on the Rockhopper and maybe a slacker head tube angle for drop offs. I would really think about buying a new Rockhopper with an aheadset and 8 or 9 speed cassette and maybe a slightly slacker head tube angle and a little taller headtube. If I could get a new Rockhopper the exact way mine is now with fresh wheels and drivetrain I'd probably do that also.


Around ten years ago, Ventana made +4mm and +7mm Chris King crown races.


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## JPL65 (Jul 20, 2008)

Vader said:


> Around ten years ago, Ventana made +4mm and +7mm Chris King crown races.


 How do these work, and what do they do for you? Are they still available?


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

JPL65 said:


> How do these work, and what do they do for you? Are they still available?


They were originally designed to provide clearance between fork top caps and down tubes. Ventana quit making them when King started making them. I suppose you could get a .5 degree change in head tube angle with the taller race.

ETA King still sells a +5 race in both 1" and 1 1/8"


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## Len Baird (Aug 1, 2017)

On second thought. I might consider a retro'ish hardtail, with a better fork, a threadless headset and stem.. Something retro with parts I can find easily. For a goof around bike it might be cool.


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## Jak0zilla (May 16, 2010)

I thought I'd toss this up onto this thread. I bought this after peeking over an old bosses shoulder while they were looking at the Handsome site. (They sold a ton of Handsome Devils at the time. Nice bike, like a livelier Crosscheck probably due to the Reynolds 631 as much as anything else.)

It's an homage to a '93 XO-1, 26" wheels, 1" threaded fork, etc. I thought that it would be a commuter that would make sense for me, as I could leverage all the extra VRC stuff I've accumulated. It's road angles, with mountain clearance so not really stictly speaking an MTB. But close enough ...









Those are 26x1.25" Paselas. It has clearance for 2.1's.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Quick answer is NO.
I do have a 1997 ubber V that I built as a commuter. I do love the look of the old Ritchey and Klien bikes.
Getting something like a P29 would be doable, but is still not my style.


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## JPL65 (Jul 20, 2008)

Does anyone own a Surly Troll? How close to a new retro ride would you say it is?


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

_Post forward: I just read through this whole thread. I'm not really sure what it's about as it seems to have organically drifted quite a bit. Hopefully whatever drift I may induce contributes in a useful and not annoying way._



MendonCycleSmith said:


> Everything is expected to be all new, all the time, and it's just pointless to pursue that, *as eventually, consumers will catch onto the shell game. *


Serious question: will they? I mean, the "innovation acceleration" (to coin the term, maybe?) has probably been going on in a serious way for, what, 15 years? Maybe not-so-coincidentally with normal access to the interwebz being something other than AOL for most people.



MendonCycleSmith said:


> Look how long it took everyone to have a CX bike vs how long it took every brand to have a $1000 650B HT.


Yeah, great point. I wonder how much this has to do with trends spreading faster from the internet, as I postulated above, and how much it has to do with just general growth of the industry.

(I may be getting dates a little wrong here, but frankly, I'm not feeling compelled to look this stuff up right now. That said... ) IIRC, around 20-25 years ago, mid-90s, the industry was booming with mountain bikes. It was a new trend. Just not nearly as segmented as the trends are today. CX was this weird thing that'd been around forever, but no major brands made them. Then a couple of brands made them, but they were still very much oddball offerings.

Nowadays, it's not a major trend like plain olde mountain bikes that's sustaining the industry, it's every little variation. Hell, the 650b+ route is one thing, but think about how much sillier this is over on the road side: all around race bike, climbing bike, aero bike, endurance bike. Really? I mean, any of these are way more similar than any silly trend in mountain biking is to another.

Ok, enough rambling for now. Again, I've hoped to contribute something here in a respectful way, not trying to contradict anyone if it comes across that way.


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## BurkC (Sep 15, 2008)

I ride a '99 Rockhopper and enjoy riding it and working on it as much as my modern Bianchi 29ee

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Feldybikes said:


> _Post forward: I just read through this whole thread. I'm not really sure what it's about as it seems to have organically drifted quite a bit. Hopefully whatever drift I may induce contributes in a useful and not annoying way._
> 
> Serious question: will they? I mean, the "innovation acceleration" (to coin the term, maybe?) has probably been going on in a serious way for, what, 15 years? Maybe not-so-coincidentally with normal access to the interwebz being something other than AOL for most people.
> 
> ...


I see a trend for all around road bikes> discs so you can get also cheap carbon rims w/ no brake tracks, 700x30mm tires and anything you throw at this formula.
Also: mountain bikes need to be cheaper. 1k should be the standard for a shimano deore bike


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

"Would you buy a new vintage-style MTB?"
No.


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## 02_NRS (Jan 27, 2004)

*simple is better.*

why not-its about bicycling not posing.look at Kawasaki's "new" z900RS.bicycle manuf.'s are going to great lengths to find new gimmicks,wheel size,sprocket size,etc. to keep $$$ cash flow.


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## krka73 (Oct 24, 2016)

mainlyfats said:


> Something that has been on my mind for a long time. Would you buy - or even better, have you commissioned - a brand new, vintage-style mountain bike? Retro-modding is fine (not a slavish reproduction), but something that hits all the hallmarks: rigid (+non-corrected), thumb shifters and rim brakes.
> 
> I'm not really that interested in a "new bikes are way better" discussion. The angle I'm after is more along the lines of given your interest in, and likely baptism by a now vintage ride, is there a place in your fleet for a non-vintage, vintage-style bike? And, if so, would you spend real money to make it happen?
> 
> View attachment 1173284


Would you buy a new vintage-style MTB? 
Me: No.

I'm not really that interested in a "new bikes are way better" discussion.
Me: But that is precisely why I wouldn't, but I digress (sort of)...

What I really find interesting is how this morphed in an "industry sucks" thread, how we're force fed innovation and slaves to corporate growth. That's hilarious to me on many levels!

My main question to these "everything sucks" in the industry people is: Are you saying you want to be buying yesteryears bike new today? If so, why? Riding an old bike is a legitimate desire, but you can still buy that old 26" rigid steel bike used, cheaper than ever. You can find them curbside on recycling day all across the country for free. So buy them, rescue them, parts are all over the internet, ride them to your hearts content. Why make the new old stuff now? Or limit innovation to a 5 year cycle?

And as far as retro-mods are concerned, the bottom line is that's pure fashion. Vintage is as much fashion as anything modern is. You want an old looking bike that performs like a modern bike, I'm not questioning the legitimacy of that idea either, but plenty of that stuff is available in today's "everything sucks" industry to fill that niche. Granted, it won't be made by Specialized, Giant or any other big brand, but isn't that the whole point of wanting something unique?

And for those complaining about the lack of new 26" tires... you're telling me the limiting factor in the performance of your old bike is the tires?! The lowest end new 26" tire from Schwalbe, Maxxis, Kenda and the rest of them is still WAY better than anything that came on your old bike, or was available in the few years that followed.

I'd even argue that you get more for your money in today's "everything sucks" industry than you ever did in the past. I still have a 1992 Trek 8000, I also have a 2016 Trek Stache 5. The "8000" was a little over $1000 new, corrected for inflation, that's over $1700 in buying power today which easily buys the Stache 5. In any measurable way, the Stache is so much better it's comical to even make the comparison!

Lastly, when you're someone (like me) that actually wants some new, innovated or even "re-invented" stuff like bigger wheels, tubeless, 1X drive-trains, dropper posts or suspension design, travel/dampening for just about any trail you can imagine, there's actually a pretty good chance you'll get it. Which is pretty nice...

Of course there's going to be growing pains in "standards" and corporate greed. But that's more vintage Americana than any steel lugged frame you could ever hope to find.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

krka73 said:


> Would you buy a new vintage-style MTB?
> Me: No.
> 
> I'm not really that interested in a "new bikes are way better" discussion.
> ...


I believe you misunderstood some of the posts here. What was said was the industry threw away standards and let custommers dry. Once you sell a machine you are supposed to support the owner when parts need to be replaced. Nevermind a bicycle which is an expensive machine which bonds w/ the owner and took him time to chose and adapt to his daily use. That´s the main criticism. 
NO one is saying a vintage bike is better. The OP made sure it wasn´t about this but certain aspects only which are just ... different and could be recreated on a new one; like geometry.
As for tires and rims... some people seem to have access to magic shops where it´s easy t find 26in stuff but a lot of people are left without. That´s my experience.
On another tangent we had a testimony of a shop owner who sees how some big companies force the shop to treat mountain bikes as disposable cliches to be sold at a fast rate. I subscribe to his view that shops should encorage owners to treat and repurpopse thier old bikes instead of telling them it´s less of a hastle to buy new, light, shinny. Bicicycles are more than rationalizing a new toy.. there is joy in keeping an old machine working that is part of the owner´s or owner´s family history. That´s the main magic going on the LBS and not the discount on that Trek that is "better".


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Otoh; someone should build a Trimble like carbon bike w/ 29+ wheels and a 1x11 drivetrain. Make it a monster cross.


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

krka73 said:


> My main question to these "everything sucks" in the industry people









krka73 said:


> Vintage is as much fashion as anything modern is. You want an old looking bike that performs like a modern bike,


Are you saying that people on here are buying, restoring and loving old bikes to be fashionable? Some might, but the overwhelming majority of people here see themselves as custodians of the bikes that are historically significant or were cool in their day and have a place in the MTB timeline. Some us ride them for the kick of riding the bikes that we rode when we were exploring our local trails and bringing back that vibe.

Do I want an old looking bike that performs like a modern bike? No. But I could paint my Santa Cruz Bronson with splatter paint circa 1990 if I wanted I guess if I wanted something "old looking". I just want to be able to keep the dozen or so 26" bikes I own on the road and usable. Some of those bikes aren't that old, some of them are.



krka73 said:


> And for those complaining about the lack of new 26" tires... you're telling me the limiting factor in the performance of your old bike is the tires?!


You telling me that some of these bikes are limited because of their age?

Anyway, No, the limiting factor is not in the tyres. The limiting factor is going to be riding on the f**king rims when I can't get tyres. Actually, scratch that. The limiting factor is going to be riding on the f**king dropouts when I can't get rims.

I take your point about the availability of tyres, at least for now. I hope to be able to fix them to the bike via rims so I'm hoarding lightweight, quality rim brake rims and wheels because I'd like to keep the really cool bikes I have on the road to enjoy.

Those bikes, by the way, did not suck before 29 and 27.5 came along. I could rip it up on those bikes like there was no tomorrow and smile myself silly when I did it. The qualities of those bikes didn't change when something newer came on the market.

Again, some of the 26" bikes I have aren't that old in terms of years, but obviously been made outdated because the industry has decided not to support the gazillions of 26" bikes out there, the sale of which clothed and fed them for the last couple of decades. I'm not opposed to new standards but gees, at least let me keep enjoying the damn things.

Grumps


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> It's more insidious than that.
> 
> It's money.
> 
> ...


This is modern capitalism and how the free market in the USA works. Read a great analysis the other day of how the US market has switched from cars to SUV's and how that switch was orchestrated. We buy what we are told to buy and not what we want to buy.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

mainlyfats said:


> Something that has been on my mind for a long time. Would you buy - or even better, have you commissioned - a brand new, vintage-style mountain bike? Retro-modding is fine (not a slavish reproduction), but something that hits all the hallmarks: rigid (+non-corrected), thumb shifters and rim brakes.
> 
> I'm not really that interested in a "new bikes are way better" discussion. The angle I'm after is more along the lines of given your interest in, and likely baptism by a now vintage ride, is there a place in your fleet for a non-vintage, vintage-style bike? And, if so, would you spend real money to make it happen?
> 
> View attachment 1173284


I would not spend real money to make it happen. The supply of vintage bikes seems to be plentiful and reasonably inexpensive, so if I am looking for another vintage ride there are ways to achieve that desire without breaking the bank. My attraction to vintage bikes are the memories they invoke of my days in the industry and the fun rides I had with friends back in the early days of mountain biking more than the actual ride quality. I appreciate the efforts many go to in order to preserve the history and I love to see the restorations and survivors, but am not inclined to have museum pieces around my own place (I feel the same about vintage muscle cars). The pleasure in the bragging rights that come with riding a vintage bike past people on modern bikes is outweighed these days by the enjoyment of the overall ride.

I have found my happy place is the low cost and low maintenance of 5-10 year old hard tails and soft-tails with 9 speed drive trains, threaded bottom brackets, non-tapered steer tubes, and 29er wheels.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

The best thing about living in this "modern age" is that we can mostly buy the bike that we want: vintage, retro, modern, or otherwise.

I still like the look of older bikes, but prefer the performance of modern bikes (the last 10 years have brought about big improvements IMO). I'd consider a retro-look in a modern package. How retro vs modern would really depend on it's purpose. Rim brakes make sense for touring bikes where long-life pads and parts availability are more important than all-out performance. Same goes for most parts - use the part that meets it's purpose.

I generally like what the industry is doing as far as introducing new options. However, I do miss the days of interchangable parts (I have MTBs with 130, 135, 142, 148, and 170 rear spacing, in addition to 26, 650b and 700c rims, so wheels often stay with the bike they were bought for.) I still prefer hardtails to full-suspension, although I own both; maybe that is retro?

As far as the original question goes... My interpretation of retro may very well not match yours. The problem with "mass-produced retro" is that you needs to find a lot of people that agree on the version of retro that they want. Rivendell makes retro bikes right now, and although they sell, they're not a huge part of the market. If I wanted a retro-style bike I'd decide exactly what I wanted and find a frame builder to build what I want.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> The best thing about living in this "modern age" is that we can mostly buy the bike that we want: vintage, retro, modern, or otherwise.
> 
> I still like the look of older bikes, but prefer the performance of modern bikes (the last 10 years have brought about big improvements IMO). I'd consider a retro-look in a modern package. How retro vs modern would really depend on it's purpose. Rim brakes make sense for touring bikes where long-life pads and parts availability are more important than all-out performance. Same goes for most parts - use the part that meets it's purpose.
> 
> ...


You could say Jan Heine and BQ are also retro. You could say Richard Sachs is retro. They will tell you they are not. Sachs would tell you in no uncertain terms. 
The narrative is wrong imo. It should start like this.. americans made off road , non pavement riding, into a big thing. It used to be french, brittish(and japanese) w/ randounnering and audax. Americans invented performance riding in the woods and rocks of MOab, pennsilvania etc.. That sport opened a lot of possibilities for technological develpment brought from motocross and the aviation industry. Otoh, the main core of bicycle riding which is transportation, long hours in the saddle touring and riding for exercise and adventure, can still be done on machines which follow the french, japanese and brit technological time line. Some like Heine sees the return of low trail and a touring bag on the front rack way more important than the development of tapered steerers or the dozens of rear axle new standards. I believe randonneuring and all road riding to be the driving force in cycling and their bicycles are close in technology to vintage mountain bikes. 
i would not build a bicycle based on a Klein Attitude but i would happily order something from Peter Weigle as we speak if i had the $$ and time to wait. HIs bikes are the best tool for the job i have in mind which is at the front of the cycling avant garde. Way more relevant right now than a 27.5 plus carbon full suspension imo. 
Progress is not a simple thing. It´s complex. Technology does not equal futuristic.. no one would tell you in the 60s that bicycles would be a transportation craze among adults.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Me personally, I would not buy a new Vintage MTB. However, I do love a modern bike that has vintage aspects to it. The following bikes are what I would consider Modern Classics that have the performance/geometry of a modern bike but classic/distinct styling.

Probably my favorite build is this:

Shred on You Krusty Diamond: Travis T's Falconer Throwback Machine | The Radavist

I also really like these:

ALL-CITY Cycle Electric Queen
Sklar bikes, Retrotec Bikes, Oddity Cycles. Probably more I'm forgetting.

Specialized did exactly what the OP was asking for back in 2007. They released the Stumpjumper Classic, I think 200 were built. Not sure how they sold, but I don't think they were flying out of the dealers showrooms, so that kinda tells you what people are willing to spend on a new Vintage MTB.


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## thetoque (Mar 6, 2008)

Answer: Yes
Why: Because it's not a bike. It's a time machine. With every pedal stroke, and each bump transmitted through the bike and into my body, I feel jolted back to 1989, staring wistfully through the window of my LBS at the shiny ride I dreamed about, thumbing through the pages of MTB magazines, and laughing with my friends while feeling a freedom I may never know again. It is my temple.


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## shaquille_o'wheel (Sep 27, 2015)

I went ahead and spent money on this sort of idea. My fatbike was broken and awaiting repair most of the year so my only trail bike was a Blacksheep Roots klunker frame. It was from James' annual production run of steel coaster brake, 29+/27.5+ cruiser style frames, he added a disc tab to mine before paint. So not all that custom. I think the sticker on these is about $1000. Got a custom Oddity squid fork to get the offset and a-c correct and 850mm Oddity riser bars to finish it off. For me it's got the necessary modern features like proper geometry, disc brakes, beefcake tubeless tires, clutch der., high engagement hubs. However it retains a lot of the look and a lot of the experience of a vintage bike. It's like my 86 Ritchey on steroids.

Did a lot of tinkering and horse-cockery to get it running gears in the range I wanted and with a crank that would clear the chainstay. Shimano didn't fit, didn't try boost spaced however. Eventually tried my turbines from the fatbike and they have been flawless. The rear dearailleur and gears are a whole nother story.

















I have pre-torch hubs and spokes laced to new enduro 305 27.5's. The rear hub is a dh150 shell with a single speed freehub body, and with a small spacer behind the endcap, it's a 135 spaced hub. I can fit 6 cogs on it. It has a 13-38 spread and it's less than ideal in one spot. I run the shifter in friction mode so it's a minor nuissance. 
This bike started out as a weird side project and turned into a bike that delivers non stop **** eating grins on every ride. While it may not be for everyone to commit to such a thing, I do think everyone needs to open themselves up to a different experience on their bike. I enjoy this more than my previous wfo's for what it's worth. Can't seem to get the photos rotated sorry


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Yes! That's what I'm talkin bout Shaq! Nice bike!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

CS2 said:


> What model did you have?


Sorry there! It was at the end of the page so I didn't see it. It was a cross check.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

krka73 said:


> My main question to these "everything sucks" in the industry people is: Are you saying you want to be buying yesteryears bike new today? If so, why? Riding an old bike is a legitimate desire, but you can still buy that old 26" rigid steel bike used, cheaper than ever. You can find them curbside on recycling day all across the country for free. So buy them, rescue them, parts are all over the internet, ride them to your hearts content. Why make the new old stuff now? Or limit innovation to a 5 year cycle?


I have no issue whatsoever with technological advancement, nor any beef with the fact that the bikes of today are impressive machines.

That bikes are now treated as precious one off objects, to be purchased with frequent, cyclical gusto, since the next years version will surely provide an experience that is certain to transcend last years?

That, I take issue with.

Combine that with about a 2 to 3 year cycle of support parts before they stop making them, since, hey, you should be buying new anyway, by now.

Further the issue by the ADHD level changing of standards on common service areas such as headsets, bottom brackets, hub spacing, freehub body design, drivetrain speeds, suspension components, and it really sucks for someone who, for whatever reason, rides a lot, but doesn't have the dough to spend $1500 to $5000 every two or three years on a new ride.

Kudos to you for your optimism, you really should open a shop. The big boys are making the old joke about the fastest way to make a million in the bike industry (start with 2 million) ever easier, with each passing year....


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

Gorgeous bike, Shaq!


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Not completely sure what the thread is about, but I guess for me, yes maybe...
I like the Ritchey P bikes and the new yo eddy...

While not completely new, does this count in what we're talking about?


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

Man, one of the guys I used to ride with back in the 90's rode a Zaskar. Sweet bike!


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> That bikes are now treated as precious one off objects, to be purchased with frequent, cyclical gusto, since the next years version will surely provide an experience that is certain to transcend last years?


Thanks for all the interesting posts. The Brodie below pretty much my all-time aesthetic winner and the design I would choose to build a retro-mod MTB around.

Isn't it strange that cycling feels nearly alone in the quality cannot equal longevity business? In an ecosystem where everything of quality is performance, rather than long service-life oriented it often seems like a bit of chump's game to me.

Oft-mentioned Rivendell is an interesting case to me as well 
and I wish they had more money (or ambition...). How on earth they don't have a top-shelf, backwards-compatible groupset, designed with input from Charlie Cunningham while he's still able to provide it, that the VRC community could embrace for spares is beyond me. If Rivendell were run by Sky Boyer from Velocult, or Nate/Eric/Carl from MWC they'd probably own the Suntour name and we'd have just that.

Altus derailleurs on my $3000+ bike? Go f#ck yourself!


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

mainlyfats said:


> Thanks for all the interesting posts. The Brodie below pretty much my all-time aesthetic winner and the design I would choose to build a retro-mod MTB around.
> 
> Isn't it strange that cycling feels nearly alone in the quality cannot equal longevity business? In an ecosystem where everything of quality is performance, rather than long service-life oriented it often seems like a bit of chump's game to me.
> 
> ...


I'm going to read this thread, but I want to respond to the Altus derailleur comment.

I'm about to install an Altus rear mech on a bike only because I read about it on the Rivendell site, and I figured I will give it a go. It's affordable. I have an old XTR on there , which works just okay, but I want to see if there is am improvement. I'll report back when I have it all done and tested.

I'm not concerned about weight as much as I am about the way a machine feels when operated.

Can't wait to read this thread.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

New one from Beardman Cycles.


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

I just bought an old Skykomish to use for commuting. Taiwanese make, but full Tange frame and fork, nice street geometry, full Deore LX (except for the brake/shifter pods, which have to go soon).


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## gigglez (Jan 28, 2017)

if i could afford it yes, it would be a titanium schwinn cruiser (merlin newsboy) with canti mount's for 26" 650b and 700c's (but not a 29'er those are lame)


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

In a way, I did buy a new old bike; a couple of them. I still have to finish putting them together. Both 853 steel single speeds. One's 26, and the other is 29. The 26 is going with rim brakes, but the 29er is going to have disc brakes. Do disc brakes belong on bikes in this category? They're getting a mix of old and new parts. I intend to really ride these hard, so all that matters is that the parts work properly for the purpose. Vintage and looks are accidental.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I would like to get a smoking deal on an old elevated CS (Nishiki Alien) bike or reproduction. I'd also love to find a Transition Klunker. No real reason, but once in a while I'd like to throw on some jeans, leather work gloves, Converse, and be vintage.

I used to ride my rigid Raleigh that way so I'd appreciate my technologically advanced bike... And a nod to Repack.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

Velo Orange getting in on it.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

mainlyfats said:


> Velo Orange getting in on it.
> View attachment 1179343


Wow. Tell me more.


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

That Velorange seat stay reminds me of the NOS Airborne frame I am gradually building.









Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

...a more production-friendly variant of the DeKerf or SyCip seatstay.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

mainlyfats said:


> Oft-mentioned Rivendell is an interesting case to me as well and I wish they had more money (or ambition...). How on earth they don't have a top-shelf, backwards-compatible groupset, designed with input from Charlie Cunningham while he's still able to provide it, that the VRC community could embrace for spares is beyond me. If Rivendell were run by Sky Boyer from Velocult, or Nate/Eric/Carl from MWC they'd probably own the Suntour name and we'd have just that.
> 
> Altus derailleurs on my $3000+ bike? Go f#ck yourself!


Grant's blog post from yesterday suggesting a letter writing campaign to bring back 1st gen XTR. Surprised he didn't mention the cantilevers... Man o man those were sweet.

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/monday-19th


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> Grant's blog post from yesterday suggesting a letter writing campaign to bring back 1st gen XTR. Surprised he didn't mention the cantilevers... Man o man those were sweet.
> 
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/monday-19th


indeed... those cantis are sweet.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

LOL. I seen grant out riding his steel touring bikes with baskets in the hills around Walnut Creek. It works but can't see it being "fun".


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

I just contributed to the Hail Mary fund.


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

Jack Burns said:


> I'm going to read this thread, but I want to respond to the Altus derailleur comment.
> 
> I'm about to install an Altus rear mech on a bike only because I read about it on the Rivendell site, and I figured I will give it a go. It's affordable. I have an old XTR on there , which works just okay, but I want to see if there is am improvement. I'll report back when I have it all done and tested.
> 
> ...


Altus derailleur system is fully functional. Testing this out, and yes it shifts very smooth and quietly.

I like it.

Maybe it looks bad.

Because I changed the cables, rear wheel, chain, cassette, and bottom bracket, it's impossible to say the system is good because of the derailleur though.

It's 9 speed.

It's is not a light derailleur.

Fine for this commuter bike.

I wouldn't run the Altus rear derailleur on a mountainbike because it looks like those huge pulleys would catch more brush and grass etc.









Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Jack Burns said:


> Altus derailleur system is fully functional. Testing this out, and yes it shifts very smooth and quietly.
> 
> I like it.
> 
> ...


Weighs the same as a Deore DX long cage which has a cult following in Europe.
I am with Grant: i get no satisfaction from derrailleurs. I rather put my money on exquisite crank sets.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

Pretty stellar klunker in honour of Jeff at First Flight on The Radavist in case you missed it.

2018 NAHBS: Groovy Cycleworks Jeff Archer Homage Klunker | The Radavist


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## DFA (Jan 26, 2004)

Don't see the point of putting a deposit down to go on a waiting list to spend large on an new "vintage style" bike when you can search Kijiji and find OG vintage Prestige/732 bikes that may have been ridden up and down the sidewalk a half dozen times for $165.


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

DFA said:


> Don't see the point of putting a deposit down to go on a waiting list to spend large on an new "vintage style" bike when you can search Kijiji and find OG vintage Prestige/732 bikes that may have been ridden up and down the sidewalk a half dozen times for $165.


Good point there mate.

Old bikes are for sale, and if one looks hard enough, they might find one that fits and is the type that will satisfy. As well, there is something good about recycling, that pleases an economic aesthetic.

On the other hand, ordering a custom bike, or something like a Rivendell or VeloOrange bike is positive as well, given that it supports this vintage type of bike industry.

No matter what, I hope there is a steady demand for such bikes, because they are relevant, are good to see out there, and remind us of certain aesthetic, technical, and economic realities.

Also I want to be able to get new bottom bracket when I need them.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## mtnking (Feb 10, 2012)

I have two modern "vintage" bikes. A 29er GT Peace with no suspension 3X9, and more recently a Sun Bicycle RevMX. The GT is my pavement bike, and the Sun a Florida cruiser. For off-road I revert to my full-suspension bike.

I enjoy riding any bike. It's not about the bike so much, as the ride itself.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

DFA said:


> Don't see the point of putting a deposit down to go on a waiting list to spend large on an new "vintage style" bike when you can search Kijiji and find OG vintage Prestige/732 bikes that may have been ridden up and down the sidewalk a half dozen times for $165.


Looks like you got a nice one there.

Yeah, there's no accounting for fire sales... I have been on both ends of that one and it's great when it works out in your favor.

Lots of possible reasons, but the "it's cheaper" aspect of VRC has never been all that compelling to me. It is certainly a privilege, but I try to do my best to listen to the demands of the project and spend accordingly to get what I'm after. Despite earning a living as a mechanic during the time period I'm most interested in, I find I naturally look for NOS or near NOS (drivetrain especially) as I can usually take that reliability to the bank.

Part of the "would you buy" question though - in my head anyway - definitely speaks to supporting current framebuilders/existing brands though.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

This is about as "vintage" as I want to go. I like the "time capsule" comment from earlier in this thread, because that is what this bike is to me. It was made 10 years after I started riding, but it encapsulates what I love about mountain bikes; simple triangle frame with straight lines, steep but not deadly geometry, steel and fast. It's also similar to what I crawled around the hills of Temecula on in the late 80's/early 90's. Yes it's a 26 and I am struggling to find/decide on tires, but at this point I'm just going to throw on some new Ikon 2.35's and call it good, I can't mind screw it anymore. The bars, while klunker-ish and not really even close to period correct just looked right to me and help my back that can't take being hunched over anymore.

So I would buy something like this, yes, but in a 27.5 and disc for the availability of tires and wheels - I could have any custom builder do that. But I am perfectly happy with this for the time being.










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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

blaklabl said:


> This is about as "vintage" as I want to go. I like the "time capsule" comment from earlier in this thread, because that is what this bike is to me. It was made 10 years after I started riding, but it encapsulates what I love about mountain bikes; simple triangle frame with straight lines, steep but not deadly geometry, steel and fast.


Eno hub or magic gear?

I'm sure you built it for your own approval and not that of anyone else, but for what it's worth, I really like that. Mish-mash of parts thrown together because they function and get the job done, on a frame that is an ol' faithful. I have a 26" rigid SS which I love. Nothing like having to power wheelie or hop over obstacles because you left the suspension at home, as well as the simplicity and reliability of it all.

There was a single track loop that I rode when I first started riding MTB. It offered it all, sand, creek crossings, climbs, a long downhill, swoopy stuff. All good. Sometimes, I take a vintage bike out there and let the lack of technology take me back to that time when it was new and it was an adventure to be out there until the light started to fade.

Damn you families and careers for making life complex. Thank you 3x7, rigid steel and canti brakes for the guilty pleasure of sneaking back to the past.

Grumps


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

blaklabl said:


> This is about as "vintage" as I want to go. I like the "time capsule" comment from earlier in this thread, because that is what this bike is to me. It was made 10 years after I started riding, but it encapsulates what I love about mountain bikes; simple triangle frame with straight lines, steep but not deadly geometry, steel and fast. It's also similar to what I crawled around the hills of Temecula on in the late 80's/early 90's. Yes it's a 26 and I am struggling to find/decide on tires, but at this point I'm just going to throw on some new Ikon 2.35's and call it good, I can't mind screw it anymore. The bars, while klunker-ish and not really even close to period correct just looked right to me and help my back that can't take being hunched over anymore.
> 
> So I would buy something like this, yes, but in a 27.5 and disc for the availability of tires and wheels - I could have any custom builder do that. But I am perfectly happy with this for the time being.
> 
> ...


Very nice! Hard to tell in the pics, but what bars are those?


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Uncle Grumpy said:


> Eno hub or magic gear?
> 
> I'm sure you built it for your own approval and not that of anyone else, but for what it's worth, I really like that. Mish-mash of parts thrown together because they function and get the job done, on a frame that is an ol' faithful. I have a 26" rigid SS which I love. Nothing like having to power wheelie or hop over obstacles because you left the suspension at home, as well as the simplicity and reliability of it all.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the comments. I was trying not to derail the OP but was just trying to express how far back to "vintage" I would be willing to go.

It is a White Industries ENO hub, by far the most expensive piece on the build. I had Dave Thomas of Dave's Speed Dream wheels lace it up (as well as re-lace the front hub with new nips/spokes) to the original Ritchey rims because they were in such good shape. It was a total CL score, I would do a build thread in VRC of how it was to how it is, but I'm sure that would be frowned upon by the purists in here.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

69tr6r said:


> Very nice! Hard to tell in the pics, but what bars are those?


They are Defiance Frameworks "Arise!" bars, based out of Homer, Alaska. When I was putting this together I knew I needed something with an unconventional rise to keep my back happy, but didn't want it to look too goofy. At the time, Surly Sunrise bars didn't exist and all "custom" options were in the $100-$160 range. I picked these out because Daniel at Defiance had a short lead time and was very communicative compared to other cool frame builders floating around the interwebs.

ARISE! bars. - Defiance Frameworks

Here's a little better pic of them.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Awesome! Thank you!


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

blaklabl said:


> ....but I'm sure that would be frowned upon by the purists in here.


I like period correct and authentic but primarily I like to see bikes used. I wouldn't take a pristine bike and strip it down but if it was worn out then sure, repurpose it.

Provided you're not cutting and shutting or brazing stuff onto the frame, then it can all be removed with hand tools. Go nuts and enjoy it!

I'd rather see an old frame with modern bits than an old frame in landfill.

And to bring it back to topic - there's some great builders who can do beautiful custom work, but there's also a supply of great old frames to give some love to. Either way, ride what makes you happy.

Grumps


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## DFA (Jan 26, 2004)

blaklabl said:


> Yes it's a 26 and I am struggling to find/decide on tires


My friend's father is a hoarder. Finding 26s isn't a problem.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

DFA said:


> My friend's father is a hoarder. Finding 26s isn't a problem.


Well that's cool, I don't know a 26" tire hoarder so I just had to buy mine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

DFA said:


> My friend's father is a hoarder. Finding 26s isn't a problem.


Nor green frames. 

Grumps


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Also just occurred to me; I would not prefer to go back to 90's tire tech on a serious bike I would actually be riding. While finding 26" tires (current, new) is becoming more difficult, there are still some good higher-end ones. If one isn't trying to be period-correct nostalgia or super hung up on skinwalls, tires like the Ardent & IKON are still widely available and solid choices.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Ironic thread.

The editor of MBA, John Ker, asked me for a contribution to be in the next issue. I pointed out that I see 30-y.o. Rockhoppers still being ridden by the original owners. A Rockhopper was an inexpensive bike, and like every other mass produced MTB before about 1984, was designed after the Ritchey MountainBikes that Gary Fisher and I sold.

The original mountain bike design was so practical and rugged, that even a cheap expression of it like a Rockhopper, is still useful after three decades. You don't see a cheap road bike still in use for that long.

Don't buy a modern reproduction of an '80s bike, buy the real thing.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Repack Rider said:


> Ironic thread.
> 
> The editor of MBA, John Ker, asked me for a contribution to be in the next issue. I pointed out that I see 30-y.o. Rockhoppers still being ridden by the original owners. A Rockhopper was an inexpensive bike, and like every other mass produced MTB before about 1984, was designed after the Ritchey MountainBikes that Gary Fisher and I sold.
> 
> ...


A lot to unpack here; Charlie Kelly commenting on my bike (cool!) but then calling it cheap at the same time. That kind of sucks, I'm pretty proud of it, sorry it's not a Stumpjumper? That's what I wanted but couldn't find one in steel at the time. Maybe some day.

Anyways great book and thanks for all you've done for the sport.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## corwin1968 (Oct 8, 2011)

colker1 said:


> A Rivendell Hunqapillar fits the criteria.


Yes it does!

For me, I wanted a steel bike with 29" big tire clearance, an MTB length top tube, a non-suspension corrected fork and rim brakes. Not many of those out there and I am thrilled with the Hunqapillar.

However, I would actually prefer a modern 1 1/8" threadless steerer, there is no way I would run a bike with friction shifters and I would prefer a much more subdued paint job (ie, no colored head tube or panels).

I am in total agreement with Grant on mid-80's MTB's, primarily because their simplicity appeals to me, they look good and most importantly, they are perfect for the type of riding I do.

Another draw to the Hunqapillar for me is the claimed fantastic ride characteristics that so many Riv owners talk about. The Hunqapillar lives up to that reputation and although riding it is not an earth shattering revelation, it is the nicest riding bike I've ever ridden.


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

Would I buy new-vintage?

It would have to accept at least a small travel suspension fork. And it should have some engineered seat-stays. By that I mean, there shouldn't be any reason to have big fat seat stays welded right up at the seat post clamp. Make them thin, or curved, or mounted lower down, or something. Well I'm not a frame designer but I mean, just make the rear end a little soft somehow.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Wheelspeed said:


> Would I buy new-vintage?
> 
> It would have to accept at least a small travel suspension fork. And it should have some engineered seat-stays. By that I mean, there shouldn't be any reason to have big fat seat stays welded right up at the seat post clamp. Make them thin, or curved, or mounted lower down, or something. Well I'm not a frame designer but I mean, just make the rear end a little soft somehow.


My Coconino has Fun Stays. I could've single speeded any vintage canti 26 steel frame, but wanted a 24" TT and Steve's frames ride so nice. The rest of the geo is 70/73. Parts are from the golden age of USA CNC.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

...


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## Ann87 (Aug 31, 2019)

The Koski Bros are making new bikes that, while using disc brakes, have some serious retro flavor, and certainly appear to have a legit pedigree. A Koski with dirt drops is my dream bike at the moment, so yes I would buy a new retro-style bike.

As far as rim brakes go, it would be interesting to see what kind of performance you could squeeze out of modern ceramic technology (Boyd and DT swiss come to mind) and hydraulics (magura is I guess still making hydraulic rim brakes?). Pretty good performance I'm guessing...


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

I would buy a new Asylum Hank or Transition Klunker or something like that if some one release one.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

93EXCivic said:


> I would buy a new Asylum Hank or Transition Klunker or something like that if some one release one.


There was so much buzz (well... if you were looking where I was) about the Handsome Bikes cartridge bearing coaster brake a few years ago. It felt all set to bring Klunkin' into a new era, but - as far as I know - it never materialized.

Interesting to see the Klunker-styled bikes (Falconer, Sklar come to mind) getting so much love on the Radavist.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

Rivendell lays down the gauntlet... I haven't read all this, but God bless that man. Marketing the virtues of the vintage mountain bike with a bonus instruction manual/philosophy.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/THIS_ONE_Hilliworker_October_9.pdf?364


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

When i look at gravel bikes geo numbers, it´s very close to an early 90s hardtail. 650B wheels are very close to 26in. Those bikes are a pair of disc brakes and a drop bar away from vintage MTBs... and it´s all everybody buys these days.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> Rivendell lays down the gauntlet... I haven't read all this, but God bless that man. Marketing the virtues of the vintage mountain bike with a bonus instruction manual/philosophy.
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/THIS_ONE_Hilliworker_October_9.pdf?364


I read almost everything. Just wonderfull.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> View attachment 1184335
> 
> 
> I just contributed to the Hail Mary fund.


I would love one of those.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

colker1 said:


> I would love one of those.


Me too...


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

I wouldn't kick one of these out of bed for eating crackers either...


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

That's sexy!

Can't really tell, 650B or 29+?


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## miles (Jan 6, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> I did something similar, but less on your Grail-like scale. This is also a 29er.
> View attachment 1173295


Toothpaste green with red decals... that's the color scheme of my Sycip SS from 20 years ago!


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> That's sexy!
> 
> Can't really tell, 650B or 29+?


I think the Potts is 650B (or 27.5...).


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

A gravel bike w/ 650B wheels, the new most wanted bicycle, is only a pair of disc brakes different from a vintage MTB: same geometry, same ride quality. Since I am not interested in anything w/ dropper posts, 76 degr. seat angle, 130mm forks and 2.6 tires, nothing has changed for me really. 
I don´t drive to ride bike parks so i need an all around bicycle that can be reasonably fast and fun on any surface.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> That's sexy!


Tall and handsome head tube.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

colker1 said:


> Tall and handsome head tube.


Allows for the uncorrected fork that I really love... For contrast:


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

miles said:


> Toothpaste green with red decals... that's the color scheme of my Sycip SS from 20 years ago!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> Allows for the uncorrected fork that I really love... For contrast:
> 
> View attachment 1290405


The shorter fork can be lighter and made w/ thinner walls thus more compliant although discs ask for stouter legs.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Does this one count? It's from 2013, I think. A six year old bike from thirty years ago?


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## corwin1968 (Oct 8, 2011)

mainlyfats said:


> Rivendell lays down the gauntlet... I haven't read all this, but God bless that man. Marketing the virtues of the vintage mountain bike with a bonus instruction manual/philosophy.
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/THIS_ONE_Hilliworker_October_9.pdf?364


I would love to ride a Gus to see if I prefer it over my Hunqapillar but based on Grant's latest Blahg, RBW may not be around to see the Gus or any other bike to fruition.

Heck, he's trying to give away his latest bike design to Specialized just so that it can actually be built.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

corwin1968 said:


> RBW may not be around to see the Gus or any other bike to fruition.


'Twas ever thus... I love him, but Grant is continually presenting his bad business decisions to anyone who cares to read. I think he might be ready to run it aground now and step away to become a "this is why we can't have nice things", values-based cultural commentator. He has the ear of thousands of not-about-the-money, die-hard customers he can take with him into whatever low-overhead, no-staff venture or partnerships he chooses next. Despite the one bike to rule them all shtick, look at how many ROB folks own multiple Rivs... Really? His fan-base has done its best.

I've been on a "will definitely buy" list for Silver under-bar shifters for what? Two years now? For a $100+ friction shifter set... An upside down thumbie-meets-suntour power ratchet... No wheel getting re-invented here. Not for nothing, but Chris Kulczycki would have had that in my hand at half the price a year and a half ago.

And yet... Riv continues. Grant gets his pay check, lunches are provided, credits are issued to encourage people to donate to unrelated issues. They sell out of Tandems, almost pre-sell entire runs and are always warning of low frame stock. They move $3000+ friction shift, non-suspended bikes with 1 inch headsets and quill stems everyday.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> 'Twas ever thus... I love him, but Grant is continually presenting his bad business decisions to anyone who cares to read. I think he might be ready to run it aground now and step away to become a "this is why we can't have nice things", values-based cultural commentator. He has the ear of thousands of not-about-the-money, die-hard customers he can take with him into whatever low-overhead, no-staff venture or partnerships he chooses next. Despite the one bike to rule them all shtick, look at how many ROB folks own multiple Rivs... Really? His fan-base has done its best.
> 
> I've been on a "will definitely buy" list for Silver under-bar shifters for what? Two years now? For a $100+ friction shifter set... An upside down thumbie-meets-suntour power ratchet... No wheel getting re-invented here. Not for nothing, but Chris Kulczycki would have had that in my hand at half the price a year and a half ago.
> 
> And yet... Riv continues. Grant gets his pay check, lunches are provided, credits are issued to encourage people to donate to unrelated issues. They sell out of Tandems, almost pre-sell entire runs and are always warning of low frame stock. They move $3000+ friction shift, non-suspended bikes with 1 inch headsets and quill stems everyday.


 I know nothing about business models so i can´t suggest anything other than confess the drama is tiring... having said that i root for Riv. Their tech stance is so different almost radically oposed to mainstream (how about those mile long chainstays most of their bikes have now?) and yet in the end it makes sense! When no one cared about 650B, they did it. NOw it´s mainstream. When no one cared about all around bikes, they did it. NOw gravel is mainstream. Fatter tires, bike packing and camping, nitto... Riv is avant garde while singing praises for the past when going to the future. If there was no Riv the cycling scene would be worse. Too bad their pricing and distribution is hard to live with. I wish they were everywhere but then who am i to teach anyone? I am not sure i would like riding w/ their fit ideas since all my bikes have saddle to bar drop but i would love to give it a try. Anyways... Riv´s attitude towards bike riding and equipment is superb. I am not even a fan of their aesthethics (typography, colors, gothic lugs...not my thing) or the california laidback liberal politics (i am too punk for that ) but it´s an important bike company.. as much as Ritchey or De Rosa when it comes to trendsetting.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Too punk for liberal California! This guy! More punk than the Dead Kennedys, the Germs, the Angry Samoans, Black Flag, Agent Orange, NoFX, Adolescents, Circle Jerks, TSOL, Wasted Youth, Social Distortion, Fear, DRI, Suicidal Tendencies, Bad Religion, Op Ivy, No Use For a Name, Swinging Utters, AFI, Pennywise...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

MattiThundrrr said:


> Too punk for liberal California! This guy! More punk than the Dead Kennedys, the Germs, the Angry Samoans, Black Flag, Agent Orange, NoFX, Adolescents, Circle Jerks, TSOL, Wasted Youth, Social Distortion, Fear, DRI, Suicidal Tendencies, Bad Religion, Op Ivy, No Use For a Name, Swinging Utters, AFI, Pennywise...


Those are not laidback bands. Back to vintage bikes:


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Liberal punx from Cali... 3 outta 4 ain't bad.

Here's a retro MTB I've been _trying _to get my hands on. Lots of people seem to want the Hank by Asylum. They could probably sell out all over again


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

colker1 said:


> ... it´s an important bike company


Agree. I think Riv is near perfect in execution of its owner's goals and I admire that tremendously. The end product often isn't really my thing, but I support them when I can because I would truly mourn Grant's voice not being a part of cycling culture. 
But as I said in a roundabout way, I'm starting to feel that the end of Riv will not be the end of Grant's influence. He's an established author now and has increased his loyal following a thousand-fold from his Bridgestone days.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> ... will not be the end of Grant's influence. He's an established author now and has increased his loyal following a thousand-fold from his Bridgestone days.


As a writer? Good. Not as good as also building bikes to go along w/ theory but good. We are going through tough times when everything seems wrong so whatever small good thing going on is exceptionally good.


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## aretas (Oct 26, 2019)

Hmmm...what does it mean? A new vintage-style MTB? A new made bike with 18 gears, lousy brakes, made of steel with awesome paintjobs? No ... wouldn´t! There enough original bikes out there for everybody. Or does it mean a steel made MTB with modern geometry, front suspension and 27.5" or 29"? Probably ... like the optic of the new Fat Chance.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

God bless Tom Ritchey.


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## JPL65 (Jul 20, 2008)

mainlyfats said:


> God bless Tom Ritchey.
> 
> View attachment 1376907


 That is really a cool looking bike. Ritchey is providing updated classics.


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## flitzr951 (Mar 20, 2009)

mainlyfats said:


> God bless Tom Ritchey.
> 
> View attachment 1376907


I was just discussing the idea of building custom bikes with vintage frame geometry/sizing and modern parts with my wife the other day. My '94 Balance has been totally amazing over the last year since having the frame modified for disc brakes. Last week I passed someone on an E-MTB on my normal route which is predominately technical singletrack. All I could think was that not only was I riding the trail better than him, but I must be having more fun doing it as well - there has to me a market for a return to the basics because that is where the fun is at.


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## chimpanzee00 (Dec 16, 2006)

DirtyHun said:


> Man, one of the guys I used to ride with back in the 90's rode a Zaskar. Sweet bike!


LOVE the triple-triangle, I'm a GT fan. The Zaskar has beefed up truss at the triangle (top-tube/head-tube/down-tube)

I have 2 of them, 1994 (turqoise anodized Al, super cool look) & late 90's (Deore XT components, Manitou X-Vert fork w/rebound adj). Latter I'm keeping, selling the other (X Large):

See pics. Deore XT front/rear derailleurs, Shimano STX crank, Deore XT brifters shifters (sweet!)

The vintage shifters (90's) are WAY beefier (mechanically robust, more metal parts), modern day shifters have a lot of plastic in them. I actually broke a front Deore LX shifter on a 2005 Giant Rainier -- the internal plastic part flat-out broke. If you see a quality 90's shifters (Shimano Deore & above, 3x7 or 3x8)..GRAB IT! I have a boxfull of them for future builds. The Shimano Deore thumb shifters (dual mode, analog & indexed) are also sweet, I have one from a '99 Diamondback Ascent EX

I upgraded the front fork with *modern* v-brake (Forte, house-brand of Performance Bike), I hate cantilever brakes..V-brakes are WAY easier to setup.

Yeah, you can do *modernize* a vintage 80's/90's MTB (rigid or hardtail), they can be obtained for good prices off CL..sometimes RIDICULOUSLY cheap! That turquoise Zaskar I got for $25, it had problematic parts (which I replaced)

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/bik/d/pasadena-gt-zaskar-21-xlarge-best-parts/7229721225.html


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