# Best Pants for Wet/Winter Riding?



## mLeier (Oct 17, 2017)

My husband and I are also looking for the perfect pants for winter riding. We would like them to be multi purpose as well. We do lots of cross country skiing in the winter. When we go with our kids, it involves lots of picnics and sitting in the snow, so hoping for some with really good waterproofing, at least on the bum. We also ride lots in wet/rainy weather in the spring and fall and would like to stay dry. The biggest problem that we have found is that anything that waterproof, is not breathable at all. We have some pants from Craft and they are warm and waterproof, but you sweat like crazy in them so they are terrible if you plan to stop and take a break anywhere. The Nordic geared pants all seem to lack pockets too.


So I am looking for the unicorn of pants that: 


- are totally waterproof in the bum and thighs but can be less waterproof and more breathable throughout the rest of the pant.


- Have at least one good thigh pocket.


- Have vents for when you really get hot.


- Fleece lined and warm.


- Tapered leg, preferably with a zipper.


- Stretchy.

Any recommendations?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

The only way I can wear waterproof pants is if it's just pissing rain, then, the constant moisture on the surface keeps my legs cool and not getting all sweaty and clammy. IME, your legs are moving too much to have any kind of full waterproof shell without either temps well below zero or constant water to providing cooling. Most of us in Alaska here use Craft XC ski pants. I'm not even kidding, we have big rides/global fat bike day and a hundred riders line up and 80% of them are all wearing the same pants. 

There ARE good tech pants though that breath well, have pockets and minimal insulation (just enough). Patagonia, North Face, etc., they all make stuff like this. The lightweight backcountry ski stuff sometimes fits the bill. I have several pants like these, one is North Face, one is Columbia.

Riding output is similar to XC skiing, so you have similar need for breathability with the clothing in the winter. Generally, XC ski stuff works great, especially the stuff that has wind-block on the front side and stretchy/soft material on the backside. 

When it gets real cold, like below 0F, I then start to use hard-shells again. I have a pair of marmot full side-zip rain shell pants. I leave them mostly unzipped and can put them over my boots and XC ski pants to significantly boost my heat. I also use these during cold heavy rain, if I find myself riding in such conditions.

But like you, I haven't found a great way to deal with a little bit of rain, other than put my lake 302s on and tape up the tops around my socks so little moisture gets in and just use some shorts and accept that I'll get wet. I find a waterproof vest is nice in those conditions for keeping your core dry and warmer, rather than trying to ride with long-sleeves that just overheat you.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I've been staring at these for the past couple of days:

https://www.foxracing.com/defend-fire-pant-[blk]-28/25421-001-28.html


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

What sort of temps are you envisioning yourself wearing these pants? 

If it were me, even though it sounds appealing to have one pair of pants for cross country skiing and mountain biking, I'm wondering if it would be better to get a separate pair for each activity.

I live in the PNW, and my normal winter riding conditions are ~30-50f, and damp/raining. I know everyone is different, but so far, I haven't had any desire for fully waterproof pants, especially anything fleece lined (or that level of warmth). 

I typically wear a long sleeve thin/breathable top (thin merino wool, or similar) with a normal synthetic riding shirt over top of that. I do wear elbow pads every time I ride as well, which adds a bit of warmth. On my lower half, I wear my normal chamois, mountain biking shorts, knee pads, and long wool socks.

On the colder rides in that range, I may double up on the thin wool top, and a good pair of gloves becomes more and more important to my comfort level.

So far, as long as I'm riding, everything from a light drizzle, all the way up to normal rain isn't too troublesome. You're generating enough heat to not be cold, and you're not really any wetter than you would be if it was 95f out and you were sweating a ton.

Pouring rain I've only ridden in once (with a hard shell with pit zips), and I was just as soaked inside of it as I was everywhere else. So I'm not sure I'd ever want to use fully waterproof pants. But then again, I don't seek out riding in those conditions either.

When it gets below ~40f or so, and it is actively raining and I'm wet, the main thing that cools me down is the wind. So anything you can do to cover up from that would be of benefit. A hard (er?) shell vest, and maybe some windpant type pants would be a good start to keep the core from getting sopping wet during a good downpour. 

Lower than about freezing, I don't have much experience with, so I can't help you there.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

As others have mentioned, it's complicated managing wet from outside, wet from sweat, and body temp. I haven't tried all the latest miracle fabrics/treatments, but nothing I have tried that keeps rain out doesn't get me just as wet from sweat. Either way I'm going to be wet so layers of insulation that functions when damp/wet fronted by a wind barrier is what works best for me.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nat said:


> I've been staring at these for the past couple of days:
> 
> https://www.foxracing.com/defend-fire-pant-[blk]-28/25421-001-28.html


Those are the same as tech pants and XC ski pants IMO...except they cost a bit more.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ocnLogan said:


> What sort of temps are you envisioning yourself wearing these pants?
> 
> If it were me, even though it sounds appealing to have one pair of pants for cross country skiing and mountain biking, I'm wondering if it would be better to get a separate pair for each activity.
> 
> ...


It's just not quite cold enough at 50-30 degrees usually for me to wear the xc ski pants and work hard. I will say the Craft stuff has an amazing comfortable-range, but when it's a little chilly, possibly with some moisture, I'll wear a base-bottom-layer on my legs over my chamois and put my riding shorts over that. They make some 3/4 length riding shorts too, so those can become a nice way to keep some airflow but still a little warmer. Again, the lighter-weight winter boots like Lake 302 are nice in these mild temps and for water crossings. We go through all of it here in AK, right now, we are in the "rain" seasons, so we are getting the rain like any place in the PacNW does in the winter.

This is also where our packable shells come in, sometimes if it's just forecast for light rain, I use similar top-layers and pack a vest, or super-lightweight jacket, or if it's forecast for more, my harder/better packable rain shell. If it's just pissing rain at 40 degrees, this makes a big difference in keeping warm. Another thing to think about is that nothing is truly waterproof in heavy rain, at least anything that you'd ever desire to take with you on a ride, so there are limits to what you can do to prevent getting soaked IMO, but in most cases you can manage it to stay fairly warm and comfortable. I take chem heaters, the boot-style, because they can be used on the handlebar in addition to the shoes.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Those are the same as tech pants and XC ski pants IMO...except they cost a bit more.


They sure look similar to xc ski pants, don't they? I wonder if they're cut any different (higher in the back, bend at the knee)? The Cordura seat and knees are nice. Plus, it comes in camo if you're into that!

I just bought some Endura DH pants (not what the OP was looking for) but while searching these other pants also caught my eye:

https://singletrackworld.com/2018/01/review-enduras-mt500-waterproof-trousers-claim-to-keep-you-dry/

I might have to order a pair to try out.


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## mLeier (Oct 17, 2017)

Jayem said:


> TMost of us in Alaska here use Craft XC ski pants. I'm not even kidding, we have big rides/global fat bike day and a hundred riders line up and 80% of them are all wearing the same pants.
> 
> There ARE good tech pants though that breath well, have pockets and minimal insulation (just enough). Patagonia, North Face, etc., they all make stuff like this. The lightweight backcountry ski stuff sometimes fits the bill. I have several pants like these, one is North Face, one is Columbia.


Yes, the pants that we have now are the Craft Storm pants. Super comfy but so not breathable. And no pockets.  Just one thigh pocket would be amazing, that and some side zip vents would probably make these pants just about perfect.

I've tried looking at pants from North Face, Arc'Teryx, etc, but still haven't found anything perfect yet there either, plus, $$$$$$.



Nat said:


> I've been staring at these for the past couple of days:
> 
> https://www.foxracing.com/defend-fire-pant-[blk]-28/25421-001-28.html


I ordered these in to try. They are nice, but I wore them around my house not actually being active and I was already sweating in them. I'm not sure that they are any more breathable than my Craft pants. Again, they could really benefit from some vents. The only thing that makes them better than the Craft pants are the pockets, and I'm not sure that's enough to justify paying $250 CAD for them vs the $100 CAD for the Craft pants.



ocnLogan said:


> What sort of temps are you envisioning yourself wearing these pants?


I see your point about two different pairs of pants, but we are really out there in the same kind of temperatures and weather for both sports and both sports have the same sort of physical output. I think that whatever would be a perfect pair for one sport would also be perfect for the other.

In that actual winter, we ride in temps down to -5F, and ski in temps down to -40F. When it's really cold, I will wear some tights or wool long johns under my Craft pants,. Top is always a light wool baselayer, a warmer sweater and possibly a lightweight, packable shell to keep the heat in if it's really cold. Wool socks are a must and I'm looking for some overboots to keep some extra warmth at my toes. I never have a problem with being cold while I am moving. I have a problem with moisture management which leads me to being cold if we stop. And stopping is a big part of the enjoyment. We have areas here where we can bike or ski into little huts that are stocked with fire wood and have wiener roasts and picnics. We love it and the kids love it. However, the wet legs get cold and they do not dry out even if we take our pants off during the time that we are there. I don't really need fully waterproof pants. Waterproof on the whole front, and just waterproof on the bum area of the backside would be great and would probably help with breathability. We don't typically ride in pouring rain, but I would like my bum to stay dry from spray when the trails are wet. Plus, my bum and my hips are the only areas that really seem to get cold in the winter.



Jayem said:


> I take chem heaters, the boot-style, because they can be used on the handlebar in addition to the shoes.


Yes! I do that too! Love hot paws in my pogies when it's really cold. I have to get my husband some pogies this year as his cold hands were what limited our riding last year.

And yes, We always have packable shells with us. I'm not worried about finding fully waterproof bottoms for riding in real rain. We don't often do that anyway. I just want my bum to stay dry from the spray from my rear tire or if I decide to sit down on the snow, and for the front of the pants to be good and water/wind proof.

I tried the Bontrager OMW pants on and liked how they felt. The guy in the store told me that they were not very water resistant though. I wonder if it would be possible to use a spray on them and make them more functional?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I ride in the midwest winters, which usually consist of temp ranges between 20* and 50*, and freezing drizzle or straight out rain. We get 1 or 2 big snows a year recently 

Over the past 6 years, i have been also looking for that "unicorn pant", and in the past 2 years have finally settled on my bottom half being my base layer leggings from REI, my regular camouflage shorts that I wear normally in all weather, and either my Terrell trail running shoes (for rain and sleet) or my Columbia Bugaboots for snow riding.

I love the cold, and I HATE bulkiness on my bottom half when I ride. When it is raining/sleeting, i figure, I am gonna get wet anyway, so I would rather be wet without the bulk. And honestly, i only put the base layer leggings on if it is going to be lower than 25*...

if I was riding in consistently colder weather like some of you, I would probably have to "bite the bullet" and deal with some bulk on the bottom to allow me to be out longer...

gonna keep following this thread though to see what ideas come up! Fall and winter are the best time of year to ride!!!


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## motard5 (Apr 9, 2007)

You're 100% trying to combine too many things. First new Nordic skiers typically overdress, not realizing how much they'll sweat and exert, especially skate skiing. I literally sweat buckets skate skiing, and feel like I'm dying out there early in the season - it never fails LOL. If you look, anyone relatively quick will be in super breathable, [relatively] light gear, even down well below freezing. Nordic stuff is mapped for windproof business front, party breathable in the back, so I've found they work very well for winter MTB riding but I'll have to sometimes add a layer because I'm operating a a much higher BPM skiing. Maybe you bought some heavier, multipurpose pants? You don't want waterproof for winter - you need windproof and breathability!

Regarding the waterproof spring/autumn seasons, get a specific pant for that! Check out Pinkbike - they have many articles for fall/spring wet gear. I'd recommend Endura or Fox pants, but keep in mind the more waterproof they are, the less breathable, but they do have vents.

Lastly, please don't use this gear for casual use hanging out with others - thats just Nasty! :nonod: :nono:


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## mLeier (Oct 17, 2017)

motard5 said:


> You're 100% trying to combine too many things. First new Nordic skiers typically overdress, not realizing how much they'll sweat and exert, especially skate skiing. I literally sweat buckets skate skiing, and feel like I'm dying out there early in the season - it never fails LOL. If you look, anyone relatively quick will be in super breathable, [relatively] light gear, even down well below freezing. Nordic stuff is mapped for windproof business front, party breathable in the back, so I've found they work very well for winter MTB riding but I'll have to sometimes add a layer because I'm operating a a much higher BPM skiing. Maybe you bought some heavier, multipurpose pants? You don't want waterproof for winter - you need windproof and breathability!
> 
> Regarding the waterproof spring/autumn seasons, get a specific pant for that! Check out Pinkbike - they have many articles for fall/spring wet gear. I'd recommend Endura or Fox pants, but keep in mind the more waterproof they are, the less breathable, but they do have vents.
> 
> Lastly, please don't use this gear for casual use hanging out with others - thats just Nasty! :nonod: :nono:


I disagree. Both sports have the same sort of aerobic output and come with the same challenges in regards to dressing properly.

I am not a newb skier and I definitely know how to dress for it. I also sweat buckets, even when it's -40. Again, my issue is when we stop. And if you read my previous posts, the stopping for picnics and fires and is a very enjoyable aspect of winter recreation.

I really think there is no reason why there can't be a pant with the same wind-stopper/waterproof material on the bum as on the front while leaving the bottom of the back of the legs to be much more breathable and not waterproof. There is also absolutely no reason why those same pants couldn't include zippered vents on the sides AND a pocket on the thigh! I don't need full waterproof, I would just like my butt not to soak through from road/trail spray or if I choose to sit on the snow for any reason. I also find that my hips and butt are areas that tend to be colder even if the rest of me is sweating. These pants must exist somewhere other than my dreams!


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## motard5 (Apr 9, 2007)

mLeier said:


> I disagree. Both sports have the same sort of aerobic output and come with the same challenges in regards to dressing properly.
> 
> I am not a newb skier and I definitely know how to dress for it. I also sweat buckets, even when it's -40. Again, my issue is when we stop. And if you read my previous posts, the stopping for picnics and fires and is a very enjoyable aspect of winter recreation.
> 
> I really think there is no reason why there can't be a pant with the same wind-stopper/waterproof material on the bum as on the front while leaving the bottom of the back of the legs to be much more breathable and not waterproof. There is also absolutely no reason why those same pants couldn't include zippered vents on the sides AND a pocket on the thigh! I don't need full waterproof, I would just like my butt not to soak through from road/trail spray or if I choose to sit on the snow for any reason. I also find that my hips and butt are areas that tend to be colder even if the rest of me is sweating. These pants must exist somewhere other than my dreams!


Sorry, I thought you wanted to take the same pants out to just casual hang. I raced nordic thru Uni and there is a noticeable difference in how we dressed vs when winter biking. Regardless, I think the Endura lineup will be your best bet. They have 'spray panels' on the rear with taped seams that might work.


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## Rocky Mtn (Jan 19, 2014)

Try searching this on google “softshell outdoor pants facebook” - I bought a a pair of these for $40 or so canadian and they are surprisingly decent with a good fit.

They are somewhat water repellant and I have used them in temps as low as -25c with some base layer.

Not nearly as expensive as craft


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## sprocket7 (Dec 16, 2015)

Riding in eastern canada, weather in winter ranges from wet days at 0 celcius, to that deep winter killing cold we get in January, where a night ride will see the temps hit -20C or worse.

For legs, from 5C down to -15, I wear liners, with merino wool legging on top. From there, add knee length 45nrth wool socks, and then Gore bike shorts. Finish it off with Wolvhammer boots. The shorts are mostly waterproof, and all the wool handles any moisture well.

Below -15, I skip the shorts and add XC pants. Below -20, I add gore-tex gaiters.

What you DON'T want, is any kind of heavy goretex layer. That stuff is great if you are static, but you'll cook in your own juices on the bike.


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## mLeier (Oct 17, 2017)

I think I just found the Unicorn of pants! Picked up a pair of Salomon Nova pants at MEC. Wore them for the last 2 days in -18C to -8C and super windy. Felt amazing both days. Totally blocked the wind. Kept me super warm but I didn’t sweat at all in them. They are as comfy as a pair of joggers. No restriction of movement whatsoever, decently waterproof, AND they have pockets! Super happy with my find!


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## dirt diggler (Jan 14, 2004)

just bought these:
https://www.the-house.com/ch4esk06bk18zz-chamonix-bike-shorts.html


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