# Sick of being pushed into overpriced for less stuff.



## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

This: Don't Blame The Bike Industry - NSMB.com
Scroll down to the comments, I'm sure any of you'll find a like-minded consumer in there somewherez.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

New and improved standards are fine when they come about every 5-10 years. Standards that change ever 2 years are a pain for consumers. I'm sick of it. I started biking in the mid 90s as a kid and it was easy finding parts because there were just a handful of sizes for every part. Good luck walking into a bike shop nowadays with a 3+ year old bike and finding the right parts you need in stock. I have a 2012 26 inch full suspension bike that I can't even find a new wheelset for. Screw the industry and their BS innovations. I just want to be able to find parts for my bikes. 

Don't make a part wider or bigger by a couple mm's and try to tell me its going to change my riding.


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## Rob-Bob (Jun 11, 2004)

The slight changes that have been made over the last few years are a major pain in the ass. Check to see if you can find the wheel set you need online..Online retailers tend to have a better assortment of parts available.And off topic the new format on this website sucks ass.. If it doesn't change back I won't be visiting this site much longer


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I have old bikes I have new bikes. Any old part can be found for sale on the Internet. There is no shortage of parts old or new. And yes, a lot of times a mm or two can make a big difference. I say, bring on the new technology and standards. Bikes have come a long way in the last 25 years. They wouldn't be the way they are without new technology and standards. The MTB industry is no different than anyother industry. Technology stands still for no one. It changes daily. Don't be pissed off because you can't keep up with the changes.


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## meSSican (Aug 8, 2010)

I just don't understand how a few MMs or an inch and a half are ground breaking developments.....they aren't but the industry tricks us into thinking so. Sure they may be a bit better but 80% of riders probably won't benefit. Yeah you don't have to buy any of the stuff but I am not stoked on a slightly bigger wheel and defiantly not a slightly wider hub.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

meSSican said:


> I just don't understand how a few MMs or an inch and a half are ground breaking developments.....they aren't but the industry tricks us into thinking so. Sure they may be a bit better but 80% of riders probably won't benefit. Yeah you don't have to buy any of the stuff but I am not stoked on a slightly bigger wheel and defiantly not a slightly wider hub.


There are a lot of people out there with skills that stuff like bigger diameter bars, stems, bigger axles, etc., are very beneficial. It allows them to ride faster, better and safer. I'm glad companies are out there pushing the limits of what's possible. It gives me more of a choice when it's time to upgrade something. Ride it till its worn out and replace it with something better.


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## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> There are a lot of people out there with skills that stuff like bigger diameter bars, stems, bigger axles, etc., are very beneficial. It allows them to ride faster, better and safer. I'm glad companies are out there pushing the limits of what's possible. It gives me more of a choice when it's time to upgrade something. Ride it till its worn out and replace it with something better.


More like" ride it till the tires go bald, and then have to for over $8,000 on a new bike because they don't make 26 inch tires any more".


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

Maker your feelings known with your wallet. I won't waste my hard earned coin on a trend nor a product that solves invented problems....I can keep up with progress when in reality it happens. I'm curious as to why a wider rim does wonders for the 27.5" & 29" but it isn't worth doing to a 26"...? 
Oh, and let me know when those few mm's start winning races & change cycling as we know it....pfffft 

ps nice putinesque avatar mcs :thumbsup:


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

i wish my phone still had the rotary dial. i liked the dial...


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> i wish my phone still had the rotary dial. i liked the dial...


Wonder why no wider, stronger, rims or other parts for for dj'n..? Less ability to manipulate market due to simplicity of equipment...?


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

Btw the new format sux. Can't see much for all the ads floating....oh well it was fun when it was fun....now it isn't.


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## Rob-Bob (Jun 11, 2004)

man w/ one hand said:


> Btw the new format sux. Can't see much for all the ads floating....oh well it was fun when it was fun....now it isn't.


Go to the bottom of the main page and click on "full site"..it changed the format back.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

If you think the new standards are not an improvement, you should be happy because they make the older tech very cheap. I got a brand new 2013 26er DH bike in Jan 2014 for half off sticker. I picked up a pair of 26" Easton Haven Carbon, formerly $1500 each or something, for $500 each. In the very long term, yes it becomes hard to find parts with the old standards, but by that time the new technology is old technology and is cheap. And there's always online for used straight steerer forks, qr hubs, etc that just need a little love. 

If you think the new standards actually are an improvement then you should also be happy.

Therefore I can't think of a reason to be unhappy with the changing standards, except maybe being left with a bike that your buddies don't oogle over, which can be overcome by beating them up and down the hill.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

At some point, you just have to quit buying what they're selling. 

I jumped ship a few years ago and built up a twenty year old bike with spare parts that had been collecting dust, and the bike has been so much fun that I sold off all the others. Parts have been easy enough to find, and I doubt the day will come when I can't run 26" tube tires, V-brakes, square taper bottom brackets, etc. because they quit making them.

For me, cancelling the magazine subscriptions was probably the biggest contributor to stopping the madness. It's been long enough now that I have no idea what's new, cool, and hot.

I'll admit to building up another new bike with mostly old parts (detailed in the IGH section), but it has nothing to do with what the industry is pushing....just kind of following my own interests to see if it works, and I probably won't have more than $500 in the project by time it's done, so not really a big loss if it doesn't.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Procter said:


> If you think the new standards are not an improvement, you should be happy because they make the older tech very cheap. I got a brand new 2013 26er DH bike in Jan 2014 for half off sticker. I picked up a pair of 26" Easton Haven Carbon, formerly $1500 each or something, for $500 each. In the very long term, yes it becomes hard to find parts with the old standards, but by that time the new technology is old technology and is cheap. And there's always online for used straight steerer forks, qr hubs, etc that just need a little love.
> 
> If you think the new standards actually are an improvement then you should also be happy.
> 
> Therefore I can't think of a reason to be unhappy with the changing standards, except maybe being left with a bike that your buddies don't oogle over, which can be overcome by beating them up and down the hill.


I like this response!


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

Rob-Bob said:


> Go to the bottom of the main page and click on "full site"..it changed the format back.


'preciate that


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

*1 Question: What's the Next Step For Mountain Bike Suspension Technology? - Pinkbike*

Comment heavy.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

man w/ one hand said:


> *1 Question: What's the Next Step For Mountain Bike Suspension Technology? - Pinkbike*
> 
> Comment heavy.


Same snake oil, different day.

:yawn:


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## Game_Throne (Apr 12, 2015)

I called a bike shop a week or two ago about a stumpjumper fsr comp in medium. I thought the guy on the other end of the line was gonna cry. He quickly regained his composure and pointed out that there were at least 130 combinations of frame sizes, wheel sizes and models and that he could only stock a tiny fraction of what was available. 

So, the shops aren't really crazy about the lack of standardization either.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

man w/ one hand said:


> *1 Question: What's the Next Step For Mountain Bike Suspension Technology? - Pinkbike*
> 
> Comment heavy.


Ya know, if these guys have any brains at all, they're going to find a way to link up bike suspension with phones. Phones phones phones phones phones! People are obsessed, and what could be better than combining two obsessions. It'll be like a speed-ball for bike geeks.

Mark my words.....you're going to see suspension that automatically adjusts to the trail you're riding based on real time GPS data from from your phone, cross referenced with data from previous rides on that trail. With all the Strav*******s out there, most trails are already mapped and logged, and most people ride the same trails over and over anyhow, so it wouldn't be hard to make it work. I can hear the fapping already.


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## ustemuf (Oct 12, 2009)

Who is pushing you? Don't spend your money then.

Myself on the other hand would love for them to continue tinkering standards, perfecting them. In year 2063, they may finally decide on the golden standards and our grand children will not have to suffer our fate, they will thank us for being pioneers of the unknown.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

People keep buying it, so they must want it.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

ustemuf said:


> Who is pushing you? Don't spend your money then.
> 
> Myself on the other hand would love for them to continue tinkering standards, perfecting them. In year 2063, they may finally decide on the golden standards and our grand children will not have to suffer our fate, they will thank us for being pioneers of the unknown.


Bike industry is pushing, hard & I will not be buying any bike that costs as much as a used car or motorcycle.

Your kids will be done the same we are being done, why, because mankind hasn't changed in thousands of yrs. We are still greedy, smart asses, that are intent on ramming what we consider to be "right" down others throats & telling them they don't matter because they cant afford it.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

Jayem said:


> People keep buying it, so they must want it.


SRAM got the message, they had to come up with a cheaper version of their drivetrain. They didn't do it out of kindness, these companies only do things like that because they HAVE TO.
Funny, people have been buying 26" wheeled bikes as long as I have been alive but the wheel companies don't seem interested in making a wider 26" rim...hmmmm....could it be that they want everyone to buy the new 27.5"/29" stuff, considering its about 2 to 3 times more expensive? hmmmm.....


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

This, no 26". First Look: Easton Heist Wheels - Pinkbike


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

It's happening (has been happening for a while). You don't have to love it, but you can learn to play your own angle in the game.

Me, for example. When the 29er craze started taking off in a bigger way, I went eBay shopping for lightly used 26" bikes. Profit!

I eventually bought myself a used 29er too. If I would've needed a better deal on that, I could've waited longer... but I had enough in the budget to score one, so I did.

Life is great when you really don't need the latest and greatest. I like to go fast, but since I'm not making my living by racing, I can make slightly dated tech work just fine for me and I love a bargain!


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

AthleticAL said:


> It's happening (has been happening for a while). You don't have to love it, but you can learn to play your own angle in the game.
> 
> Me, for example. When the 29er craze started taking off in a bigger way, I went eBay shopping for lightly used 26" bikes. Profit!
> 
> ...


Bought an 08 Nomad (in 08), 7 yrs on same bike, 3 to 4 rides each wk, 4 seasons @ Snowshoe. Bought as a bargin from a fellow mtbr member (crash replacement), 95% of the parts on it bought as cheap as possible, never been able to buy full price, never tasted a silver spoon in my life. For the life of me i have never been able to figure out how some born into wealth, act as if they have struggled all their lives to get where they are....and then look down on those who cant figure out whether to buy meds or pay the power bill or buy food.
So, those who like to climb up on the high horse & say "if you dont like the prices then dont buy it" i dont have problem w/ that, but the companies are phasing out the 26" when it comes to new tech, so buying 26" closeouts will be all that is left.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

If you don't like the pricing insanity of mountain bikes, then do yourself a favor, sell one of two of these rat traps and buy a dirt bike. A brand new 2014 YZ450F can be had for <$7k which includes taxes, registration, and whatever other fees. It has 60hp, 12" of travel, has a 50 mile or so range on a stock tank, needs a suspension rebuild every 50 hours (that's HOURS, of actual RIDING time), just needs oil and air filter cleanings and tires.

Plus the most boring day on a dirt bike still usually >>>> the best day on a mountain bike. At no point have I ever been riding my dirt bike and thinking "gee I wish I were pedaling this other thing with worse suspension, worse tires, worse brakes and a seat that is probably a former sex offender up a hill to get a few minutes of actual riding".

If you are spending anything close to that on a mountain bike, there's something wrong and you need a new hobby.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

So, people who are spending anything close to 7k on a mountain bike have something wrong with them? Do you realize that most people can't ride a dirt bike out their back door to go for a ride. Some people have to drive hours for a place to ride a dirt bike. Do you see what I'm getting at? I happen to do both and I've spent just as much on MTBs as I have on dirt bikes.


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## ustemuf (Oct 12, 2009)

i spent $10k on my bike and i use every dollar of it. just because you don't have the skills to use it doesn't mean something is wrong with you.

i rode sportbikes for 9 years til i quit and started mtb in 2009. i have no interest in having horsepower under my legs anymore. human bodies aren't meant to crash going 50+ mph, i know because i've done it a bunch on the track and on the street. 

something wrong with me? no ...i think something is wrong with you...you have no balls.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

ustemuf said:


> i spent $10k on my bike and i use every dollar of it. just because you don't have the skills to use it doesn't mean something is wrong with you.
> 
> i rode sportbikes for 9 years til i quit and started mtb in 2009. i have no interest in having horsepower under my legs anymore. human bodies aren't meant to crash going 50+ mph, i know because i've done it a bunch on the track and on the street.
> 
> something wrong with me? no ...i think something is wrong with you...you have no balls.


No way in hell i would drop $7k on a bike that i am on virtually everyday, much less $10k and as long as people can find justification in doing it, it will push more & more "average joes" out of the market. But i get the feeling you feel like you "deserve" this level product & could care less about "us average joes", so waste of a reply huh?


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> So, people who are spending anything close to 7k on a mountain bike have something wrong with them? Do you realize that most people can't ride a dirt bike out their back door to go for a ride. Some people have to drive hours for a place to ride a dirt bike. Do you see what I'm getting at? I happen to do both and I've spent just as much on MTBs as I have on dirt bikes.


This! I had quads back in the day. Yeah great fun. Drive at least an hour and a half for a small and lousy atv park. 3 hours to hit actual atv trails.

For mt biking, I have 4 trails within 15 mins, 12 trails within 30 min and nearly 30 within close to an hour.

There was never an after work atv ride. Not to mention the trailers, towing it, storing it, etc.

No thanks. I'll gladly spend 4k and be able to ride every day within 15 mins if I want.

Plus crashing is the woods at 30 plus on an atv starts to really hurt as you get older.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

man w/ one hand said:


> No way in hell i would drop $7k on a bike that i am on virtually everyday, much less $10k and as long as people can find justification in doing it, it will push more & more "average joes" out of the market. But i get the feeling you feel like you "deserve" this level product & could care less about "us average joes", so waste of a reply huh?


No one is pushed out of the market. The old bikes with the old tech are still there, at cheap prices. A 2015 Trek Marlin (29er) is about $500 and is probably on par or even better than a mid 90s Trek 8000, top of the line XC hardtail which retailed for $1100, or $1600 in today's dollars. By the time 26ers are really gone, as you say, new hardtail 29ers are already available at low end prices.

Read my previous post. The new tech makes the old tech cheaper. The only thing making you feel like your bike is inferior is you. So just ride faster and prove it doesn't matter. 


Procter said:


> If you think the new standards are not an improvement, you should be happy because they make the older tech very cheap. I got a brand new 2013 26er DH bike in Jan 2014 for half off sticker. I picked up a pair of 26" Easton Haven Carbon, formerly $1500 each or something, for $500 each. In the very long term, yes it becomes hard to find parts with the old standards, but by that time the new technology is old technology and is cheap. And there's always online for used straight steerer forks, qr hubs, etc that just need a little love.
> 
> If you think the new standards actually are an improvement then you should also be happy.
> 
> Therefore I can't think of a reason to be unhappy with the changing standards, except maybe being left with a bike that your buddies don't oogle over, which can be overcome by beating them up and down the hill.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

GH28 said:


> Plus the most boring day on a dirt bike still usually >>>> the best day on a mountain bike. At no point have I ever been riding my dirt bike and thinking "gee I wish I were pedaling


I ride both, and think that all the time. Mountain bikes are WAY more fun on single-track than motos.

If you want your mountain bike to be a motorcycle, you're doing it wrong, and you're the one who needs a new hobby. Apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

ustemuf said:


> i spent $10k on my bike


I think you need a girlfriend...or you should stop paying retail!  (I kid, I kid)


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

_CJ said:


> I ride both, and think that all the time. Mountain bikes are WAY more fun on single-track than motos.


Then you are riding WAY too slow.

Miles of smiles per dollar on a moto dwarfs that of a mtb, including commuting time (which for me is about equal for both). The comparison of that between the two is just insulting when considering the price of a $7-10k MTB that's fragile and shitty.

If you're crashing in the woods that much, you're riding over your head.

Also in Southern CA, an after work MX ride is not out of the question. In an hour you can get in a HELL of a workout, hit maybe 200-250 fast corners (assuming 20 laps) and be hitting jumps as long as your heart desires. And you probably won't be stuck walking out because your paper-thin tires spit MTB love-juice all over the trail, or your derailleur took a dump.

Speak with your dollars. No manufacturer cares about a customer who has already paid complaining about overpaying on an internet forum.

If demand shifts, the market will adjust.

If you keep paying these stupid prices, those prices will keep going up until there is a compelling reason for it NOT to.

If you paid $9k, why wouldn't you pay $10k for the same thing next year? Or $11k the year after that? The market clearly bears.

If you paid any of these prices already, you have no right to complain about price gouging because that purchase is precisely what enables it.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

GH28 said:


> If you paid any of these prices already, you have no right to complain about price gouging because that purchase is precisely what enables it.


Nope sorry.....I built my MTB out of old used parts that were collecting dust. Might have about $500.00 in it. That was in 2008. I've since sold all the other junk. Bought my moto for about $1500.00, and don't really spend anything on that outside of oil and tires. Haven't been stranded by either since I started riding in 1991.

No commute time either, as I have some of the world's best trails right out my back door.

If your "smiles per mile" on a mountain bike are based on how many fast corners you turn in an hour, or how many jumps you can take, you're doing it wrong. Maybe you should just stick to motorcycles, or get yourself an e-bike.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

man w/ one hand said:


> No way in hell i would drop $7k on a bike that i am on virtually everyday, much less $10k and as long as people can find justification in doing it, it will push more & more "average joes" out of the market. But i get the feeling you feel like you "deserve" this level product & could care less about "us average joes", so waste of a reply huh?


Pretty much! I work my ****ing ass off for what I have. And I'll make no excuses for it if I buy something expensive, which is really no ones business but mine. The fact that someone else can't afford something is not my business, and yeah, I could care less.



Procter said:


> No one is pushed out of the market. The old bikes with the old tech are still there, at cheap prices. A 2015 Trek Marlin (29er) is about $500 and is probably on par or even better than a mid 90s Trek 8000, top of the line XC hardtail which retailed for $1100, or $1600 in today's dollars. By the time 26ers are really gone, as you say, new hardtail 29ers are already available at low end prices.
> 
> Read my previous post. The new tech makes the old tech cheaper. The only thing making you feel like your bike is inferior is you. So just ride faster and prove it doesn't matter.


Bingo! The best time in the MTB industry is right now. Everyone should be happy. There's a lot of good choices out there from low cost to expensive.



GH28 said:


> Then you are riding WAY too slow.
> 
> Miles of smiles per dollar on a moto dwarfs that of a mtb, including commuting time (which for me is about equal for both). The comparison of that between the two is just insulting when considering the price of a $7-10k MTB that's fragile and shitty.
> 
> ...


If motos are so bittchen and the mountain bike industry is so shitty, why the fuuck are you here??? Talk about a dick! Is your camel toe still bleeding?


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

_CJ said:


> Nope sorry.....I built my MTB out of old used parts that were collecting dust. Might have about $500.00 in it. That was in 2008. I've since sold all the other junk. Bought my moto for about $1500.00, and don't really spend anything on that outside of oil and tires. Haven't been stranded by either since I started riding in 1991.
> 
> No commute time either, as I have some of the world's best trails right out my back door.
> 
> If your "smiles per mile" on a mountain bike are based on how many fast corners you turn in an hour, or how many jumps you can take, you're doing it wrong. Maybe you should just stick to motorcycles, or get yourself an e-bike.


Perhaps you missed the point? You didn't pay $7-10k for a mtb. In fact, you did the opposite, which is probably the smarter way to go about it.

I mtb for exercise #1, fun #2 these days.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> If motos are so bittchen and the mountain bike industry is so shitty, why the fuuck are you here??? Talk about a dick! Is your camel toe still bleeding?


My gynecologist recommended some Enduro to get in touch with my feminine side. Actually checked in for the first time a few days ago to get some tech info. And stir the pot.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I'd get a new gynecologist if I were you!


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

That's very good advice. This one's finger is really cold, and likes to make a lot of puppet jokes.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Stick it in your bleeding vag.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

I know! This is why we have dropper posts and Enduro specific bike panties! Maximum absorption!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Haha, ok now I'm starting to think that you are a female. If you are, I sincerly apologize for the jokes. If you're a guy, well, at least you're learning something.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Im going for a ride, talk to you later.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

It would make more sense if a female had this POV on it. Women sure don't get moisty over a guy with a mountain bike...


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> If motos are so bittchen and the mountain bike industry is so shitty, why the fuuck are you here??? Talk about a dick! Is your camel toe still bleeding?


You can enjoy something, but still criticize aspects of it.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Im going for a ride, talk to you later.


Wait a sec.....you're from Ventura too?? Haha

Living in Ventura is why I own a moto in the first place (I started with years of MTB). 30 minutes of driving to ride either one, and I'd rather ride a MX track or a 10 mile long singletrack on the moto after work any day.


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

They wouldn't do it we didn't let them. Consumers are, frankly, extremely easy to manipulate. I've had the opportunity to sit behind the mirrored glass and watch consumer focus groups. The marketing people might as well be hypnotists with what they're able to get people to believe. It's stupid easy and it's a good thing they mirrored room is soundproof because I was laughing loudly at how easy it was to manipulate the people on the other side.

Remember, mountain bikers are the same people who switch from 26" wheels to 29" wheels because 29" wheels "roll better" while completely ignoring the rest of the physics. They then switched to 27.5" wheels because of _the exact same physics they ignored_ when switching to 29" wheels.

It's sad how easy it is...unless you are in the consumer goods industry like me. Then it's a wonderful thing.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

GH28 said:


> I mtb for exercise #1, fun #2 these days.


Like I said....apples and oranges.

There was a time when I had all the latest and greatest MTB junk. At the end of the day, it's not about the bike. If you have the means to afford high dollar stuff, and it makes you happy, that's fine, but nobody should be stretching the limits of their budget for the latest re-marketing of crap that was figured out so long ago the patents have expired. The best and brightest were designing bicycles in the 1800's. It was the rocket science of the day. Are we really supposed to believe the bottom rung of today's engineering professionals are going to do it better? It's all marketing. We all KNOW it's all marketing. Either buy your jewelry and show it off to your friends knowing it's nothing more than jewelry, or get a ****ing clue already.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

_CJ said:


> The best and brightest were designing bicycles in the 1800's. It was the rocket science of the day. Are we really supposed to believe the bottom rung of today's engineering professionals are going to do it better?


Quote of the year right here ladies and gentlemen!

That's no sarcasm either btw.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

KevinGT said:


> They wouldn't do it we didn't let them. Consumers are, frankly, extremely easy to manipulate. I've had the opportunity to sit behind the mirrored glass and watch consumer focus groups. The marketing people might as well be hypnotists with what they're able to get people to believe. It's stupid easy and it's a good thing they mirrored room is soundproof because I was laughing loudly at how easy it was to manipulate the people on the other side.
> 
> Remember, mountain bikers are the same people who switch from 26" wheels to 29" wheels because 29" wheels "roll better" while completely ignoring the rest of the physics. They then switched to 27.5" wheels because of _the exact same physics they ignored_ when switching to 29" wheels.
> 
> It's sad how easy it is...unless you are in the consumer goods industry like me. Then it's a wonderful thing.


Yup. 100%. This is a free-market society. Consumers will buy what they want and will pay what they can afford. The bike industry - like all industries - will try to make you buy something you don't need or want.

Once people start buying 8-10K bikes, the industry will start selling more to them.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

GH28 said:


> It would make more sense if a female had this POV on it. Women sure don't get moisty over a guy with a mountain bike...


Some do, I met one of my girlfriends MTBing in Sullivan Canyon.



GH28 said:


> Wait a sec.....you're from Ventura too?? Haha
> 
> Living in Ventura is why I own a moto in the first place (I started with years of MTB). 30 minutes of driving to ride either one, and I'd rather ride a MX track or a 10 mile long singletrack on the moto after work any day.


Yep, Simi Valley.


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

GH28 said:


> Wait a sec.....you're from Ventura too?? Haha
> 
> Living in Ventura is why I own a moto in the first place (I started with years of MTB). 30 minutes of driving to ride either one, and I'd rather ride a MX track or a 10 mile long singletrack on the moto after work any day.


Really ventura? What u ride piru all day? Boring! Gotta move to Prescott az. Epic woods riding out ur back door. Travel time 0!

They don't make motos like they used too. Friends 2 week old bike.









Moto is funny but seen to many ship off in a heli from head ons.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

#1ORBUST said:


> Really ventura? What u ride piru all day? Boring! Gotta move to Prescott az. Epic woods riding out ur back door. Travel time 0!
> 
> They don't make motos like they used too. Friends 2 week old bike.
> 
> ...


They don't make bikes like they used to either.


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

The people keep buying it thing is a straw man argument.

Very few people are buying the new stuff that already have a bike(s).

The people who are buying this crap are the ones buying a complete bike. And when they are doing that, most will focus on size, angles, and suspension. Most of the other kit is what it comes with. They do not have a choice if they want it or not. If they want the bike then they are stuck with it.

My issue comes with the aftermarket - We will start with tires. Sure new 26 are dying, but that does not excuse the fact that there is a 20+ year installed base of people needing tires. And to those who say there is lots of choice, my reply would be that Enderpo has really lit a fire under the tire designers azz to come up with stuff that is reasonably light, can be ridden to the top, and shreds on the way down. Basically what most of the riders who are not dirt-roadies or downhill-dirtbags have wanted for years. Now we have some killer tires, but unless we upgrade to 27.5 we are out of luck. So new wheels, frame, possible shock and fork, just to get some good meats? 

Same can be said about rims - all the decently wide and light stuff is 27.5 and larger.

Forks - same thing - a lot are now 27.5 and 29 only.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

Can't remember the last time anyone put a gun to my head and 'forced' me to buy anything. SIUP.

People riding $10K bikes does not affect you in the slightest if you aren't in the market to buy one. Name one part that you have to have that you cannot find in a store on line or in a shop for your bike...


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## RWhiz (Jun 10, 2013)

#1ORBUST said:


> Really ventura? What u ride piru all day? Boring! Gotta move to Prescott az. Epic woods riding out ur back door. Travel time 0!
> 
> They don't make motos like they used too. Friends 2 week old bike.
> 
> ...


KTM, kan't take much.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

kazlx said:


> Can't remember the last time anyone put a gun to my head and 'forced' me to buy anything. SIUP.
> 
> People riding $10K bikes does not affect you in the slightest if you aren't in the market to buy one. Name one part that you have to have that you cannot find in a store on line or in a shop for your bike...


Any of the new tires/rims - no 26" offered. I guess the new wider internal rim widths wont/cant help 26", huh? So, we are left with $1000 wheel sets that will only work on a 27.5" or 29" frame...that we have to spend a minimum of $4k to $5k on.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

Is there an echo in here....


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I have a 40mm Derby wheel set in 26". I haven't had any problems finding tires. In fact I ordered a pair last night.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

Cant help but wonder how long the 27.5" & 29" trend will last and how long it will take before the people who told us how much better the 27.5" & 29" are than 26" will be telling us how much better the NEW AND IMPROVED 26" will be ??

Check out the poll numbers. Pinkbike Poll: Will You Consider Buying a 27.5+ Bike? - Pinkbike


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

man w/ one hand said:


> Cant help but wonder how long the 27.5" & 29" trend will last and how long it will take before the people who told us how much better the 27.5" & 29" are than 26" will be telling us how much better the NEW AND IMPROVED 26" will be ??
> 
> Check out the poll numbers. Pinkbike Poll: Will You Consider Buying a 27.5+ Bike? - Pinkbike


27.5 is temporary 26 is forever.

Why i sourced a Pulse. 26 and alumin. Ahhhh sky is falling.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

#1ORBUST said:


> Really ventura? What u ride piru all day? Boring! Gotta move to Prescott az. Epic woods riding out ur back door. Travel time 0!
> 
> They don't make motos like they used too. Friends 2 week old bike.
> 
> ...


Piru once in a while. It's convenient for just burning laps on Wednesday afternoons. I can drive a half hour up Highway 33 and be riding rough mountain trails. Same thing out near Valencia.

I would sure love to have singletrack right out the door, but not the case around here. I basically have to drive equal distances to ride each one on anything more than 1 minute long, so moto wins.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

man w/ one hand said:


> Any of the new tires/rims - no 26" offered. I guess the new wider internal rim widths wont/cant help 26", huh? So, we are left with $1000 wheel sets that will only work on a 27.5" or 29" frame...that we have to spend a minimum of $4k to $5k on.


It's a catch 22 that you are *****ing. You ***** that you don't want to be forced into buying new stuff, but you are *****ing about not being able to buy new stuff. I guarantee new rims aren't the lynch pin to most people's riding abilities...

If you don't want the brand new tech, don't buy it and just run the (now cheaper) stuff that has worked exceptionally for the last few years. Either buy it or don't that's how the free market works. Nobody is pushing anything on you. If there's enough of a market, someone will build it.

Must. Have. Slightly wider 26" wheels.....cannot resist.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

kazlx said:


> Nobody is pushing anything on you.


Well, except for bike companies, and magazines, and websites. Besides them, no, nobody is pushing you to buy crap you don't need at ridiculous prices.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

Last time I checked, you don't HAVE to buy anything...this whole 'being forced' is comical. Of course companies want you to buy things, their goal is, try to follow me now, 'make money'. Start a company and try to talk everyone out of buying your product and see how that works for you. Ultimately, the consumer decides.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

kazlx said:


> Last time I checked, you don't HAVE to buy anything...this whole 'being forced' is comical. Of course companies want you to buy things, their goal is, try to follow me now, 'make money'. Start a company and try to talk everyone out of buying your product and see how that works for you. Ultimately, the consumer decides.


Who said "forced"? Not the OP. Not me. Only you, and just now. "Pushed" was the word being used, and yes, overpriced non-standard standards are being pushed.

I agree though. The consumer decides. I just can't figure out if it's the bike industry's dieing last gasp, or if they've really hit on something here. They lost me a long time ago, but there's a new sucker born every day, right?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

_CJ said:


> Who said "forced"? Not the OP. Not me. Only you, and just now. "Pushed" was the word being used, and yes, overpriced non-standard standards are being pushed.
> 
> I agree though. The consumer decides. I just can't figure out if it's the bike industry's dieing last gasp, or if they've really hit on something here. They lost me a long time ago, but there's a new sucker born every day, right?


It appears the word, "forced" is appropriate here.

Push | Definition of push by Merriam-Webster


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

Point is, this argument gets made about every consumer product and it's pointless, it's called trying to make money running a business. You could build a pretty damn awesome bike today with regular ol' standard parts and not break the bank. You want cutting edge, pony up. Stop whining about it...


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

kazlx said:


> Point is, this argument gets made about every consumer product and it's pointless, it's called trying to make money running a business. You could build a pretty damn awesome bike today with regular ol' standard parts and not break the bank. You want cutting edge, pony up. Stop whining about it...


+100% here! Stop winning or take up knitting. I don't think that changes much.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

kazlx said:


> Point is, this argument gets made about every consumer product and it's pointless, it's called trying to make money running a business. You could build a pretty damn awesome bike today with regular ol' standard parts and not break the bank. You want cutting edge, pony up. Stop whining about it...


Cutting edge...oh you mean for the 27.5" & 29" stuff, but not 26" and lets not forget the fat bikes & the 20" kids bikes.....trendy. I guess they have to keep throwing crap against the wall & hope something will stick....hopefully.


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## Rob-Bob (Jun 11, 2004)

man w/ one hand said:


> Cutting edge...oh you mean for the 27.5" & 29" stuff, but not 26" and lets not forget the fat bikes & the 20" kids bikes.....trendy. I guess they have to keep throwing crap against the wall & hope something will stick....hopefully.


Fat bikes kick ass..Just sayin.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

You're right, bah humbug. Bring back GT Avalanches for everyone. You don't know what you want...

If you're so adamant the industry is missing the point, build it yourself and profit. Oh wait, you'd rather cry about it online.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

fuk yal AND your high priced fukn horse you rode in on a55whole


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

man w/ one hand said:


> "Why are you willing to take so much & leave others in need...just because you can?"


No, because I work my ass off and took a chance. Those who do that deserve to keep what they have.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

man w/ one hand said:


> fuk yal AND your high priced fukn horse you rode in on a55whole


Oh no, someone's camel toe is bleeding!


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

You dont know me well enough to talk shiit to me now & you didn't the last time you talked sdhit about me habving oone arm either dick head.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

I got what you deserve in my hand, I only have one, so you wont make a mistake as to which one Dick.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

man w/ one hand said:


> You dont know me well enough to talk shiit to me now & you didn't the last time you talked sdhit about me habving oone arm either dick head.





man w/ one hand said:


> I got what you deserve in my hand, I only have one, so you wont make a mistake as to which one Dick.


Yep, better load up on tampons!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

His green light is off. He's making a quick trip to the store. Haha!


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Well this has deteriorated nicely. Glad I could help get it there.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

Cry me a river. I don't ride anything fancy, a 4 year old DH bike and a 6 year old hard tail. I still manage to find parts for both of them...

So your real complaint is that you want cool new stuff, but don't want to pay for it. Got it....


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

GH28 said:


> Well this has deteriorated nicely. Glad I could help get it there.


Hey man, what's up?



kazlx said:


> Cry me a river. I don't ride anything fancy, a 4 year old DH bike and a 6 year old hard tail. I still manage to find parts for both of them...
> 
> So your real complaint is that you want cool new stuff, but don't want to pay for it. Got it....


Pretty much. And, because he can't, or doesn't want to pay for it, no one else should have new parts either. That's how these kind of people are.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Just enjoying the show!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

GH28 said:


> Just enjoying the show!


Haha yeah, get some popcorn.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

i don't own a mountainbike less than 10 years old and have not yet run into a single issue looking for replacement parts that fit my criteria...


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

Wait...that's impossible. You aren't being pushed into buying a brand new $10k bike?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Well, I think I can say something that hasnt been said yet...

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Hey man, what's up?
> 
> Pretty much. And, because he can't, or doesn't want to pay for it, no one else should have new parts either. That's how these kind of people are.


What do you mean by you "people"?

I think the point he's trying to make went way over your head.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

#1ORBUST said:


> What do you mean by you "people"?
> 
> I think the point he's trying to make went way over your head.


Ahhhhh yes, those who can't afford ten thousand on a bike, I guess it's tied up in ETFs or something. I couldn't fathom. But whatever the reason. . Those. . . bohemian folk, the proles. You know. They join us on AOL dial up. Or the library. Gypsies.

Man w/ one hand, don't let Internet get you so riled.

Shawn, I think you were prodding a little too much. If you made fun of the guys hand, it would be appropriate to apologize.

Let's all take a breather folks. If we all met on a trail we'd shake hands and ride, then high five, rack our bikes and head home, regardless of what anyone was riding.


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## Trail Designer (May 16, 2015)

Built your own bike, That way you get what you want and the pride of you completing it yourself. Good Luck


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## igotbanned (Oct 20, 2007)

Well this seems to have gotten blown all out of proportion.... but I'll take a stab here since I was out on the fringes of the bike realm for approximately 2 years (out of USA, got tired of the same old mtb trails and switched to riding primarily dirtbikes, then out of USA again). 

After returning home and borrowing a 2009ish Transition Vagrant for a couple weeks, I decided it was definitely time to get back into riding. I attended a Specialized demo-day and rode the 2015 S-Works Enduro650b and Stumpjumper 650b & 29er versions for a few hours.... the 650b versions were both AMAZING! Truly, they were both just out of this world in terms of ride quality, and for MSRP of $8,000 they better be. (If you are wondering, I felt the 29er was simply too large for me)

Did I go out and buy a 2015 S-Works bike then at full MSRP? HELL NO! 

Did I go out and buy a like-new 2012 Enduro at about 25% of MSRP? HELL YEAH! Is it a huge improvement over any other 2005-2010 bike I've ever ridden? HELL YEAH!


Here's how I see it: if someone is willing to pay 2015 MSRP prices, let them. They will sell me the bike a few years later at a huge discount, and we will all be happy. I highly doubt I'm going to have trouble finding parts for my 2012 bike, and if I do... thats a meager price to pay for the tremendous improvements that bikes have taken over the last few years. 

Might I buy a 2015 S-works Enduro 650b when 2018 rolls around? You can go ahead and bet I will.


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## igotbanned (Oct 20, 2007)

While we are on the collective rant though, I want to voice mine.

Where the heck did all the (young) riders go? I'm 23, have been riding since I can remember, and therefore feel as though I've seen quite a lot of the short history of mountain biking. I've never ridden with so few other people around, and certainly have never felt so young in the sport. This is about the same feeling for dirtbikes, and practically every other outdoor activity. Does no one actually go outside anymore?

....so speaking of, I'm headed out for a ride. Peace everyone!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

igotbanned said:


> While we are on the collective rant though, I want to voice mine.
> 
> Where the heck did all the (young) riders go? I'm 23, have been riding since I can remember, and therefore feel as though I've seen quite a lot of the short history of mountain biking. I've never ridden with so few other people around, and certainly have never felt so young in the sport. This is about the same feeling for dirtbikes, and practically every other outdoor activity. Does no one actually go outside anymore?
> 
> ....so speaking of, I'm headed out for a ride. Peace everyone!


I'm not complaining, it means less people on the trail.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

man w/ one hand said:


> Bike industry is pushing, hard & I will not be buying any bike that costs as much as a used car or motorcycle.


This aspect of the industry sucks too. When one company starts charging $8k+ for new bikes this opens the door for other companies to justify charging the same. Next thing you know, $8k is the new price for a high end bike.

I started riding back in 1996. In 1996 a high end carbon full suspension bike cost a bit over $3k. Adjust that for inflation and its about $4500 in today's money. Think about that next time a sales guys in a shop tries to sell you the latest and greatest bike that costs more than a decent used car.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

MTBs aren't made in huge volumes like cars and motorcycles. Their price has to reflect that fact.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

igotbanned said:


> While we are on the collective rant though, I want to voice mine.
> 
> Where the heck did all the (young) riders go? I'm 23, have been riding since I can remember, and therefore feel as though I've seen quite a lot of the short history of mountain biking. I've never ridden with so few other people around, and certainly have never felt so young in the sport. This is about the same feeling for dirtbikes, and practically every other outdoor activity. Does no one actually go outside anymore?
> 
> ....so speaking of, I'm headed out for a ride. Peace everyone!


They're at home playing video games, and texting on their phones.

Mountain biking is an old man's sport now, and the prices reflect that. It's rare that I see anyone under 30 out on the trails, and at least half of the people I see have grey hair. Moutain biking exploded in the 90's, in no small part because it was cheap fun and there wasn't much else to do. I see this same thing going on with a lot of hobbies that involve actual participation out in the real world. I know there are young people....there are tons of them living in their parent's basements in my neighborhood, but I have no idea what they do for fun. It's like they're vampires or something.


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

_CJ said:


> They're at home playing video games, and texting on their phones.
> 
> Mountain biking is an old man's sport now, and the prices reflect that. It's rare that I see anyone under 30 out on the trails, and at least half of the people I see have grey hair. Moutain biking exploded in the 90's, in no small part because it was cheap fun and there wasn't much else to do. I see this same thing going on with a lot of hobbies that involve actual participation out in the real world. I know there are young people....there are tons of them living in their parent's basements in my neighborhood, but I have no idea what they do for fun. It's like they're vampires or something.


Industry priced them out.

When I was 19 top forks were $900 and frames were a grand. None of this $1900 for fork but u have to buy ur own stem oh and that spring is to light? $300 for the right one.

I always thought of dh bikes as disposable. I can't get them to last 2 years. Kids spending 3-5k every 2 years isn't going to happen.

Edit: I just did a back in my day post...fuk im getting old!


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## igotbanned (Oct 20, 2007)

I just can't believe it's a pricing issue - sure, maybe some are priced out of the fanciest bikes, but as I was attempting to make the point earlier, its still very possible to get a high end bike thats just a couple years old for a decent price, or even a crummy bike for downright cheap.

Moutain Cycle Shawn: I think you should be bothered by the disappearance, since trails don't build themselves and it takes an intact riding community to fight for a trail when the bulldozers show up. 

I used to love super bowl sunday because no one was ever outside and I didn't have to share. Nowadays, it seems like the whole world's gone missing.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Sooooo, I received an email from a web-retailer today, and there was a pretty damn nice full suspension bike for $800.00 featured in it. Yeah, not the best components ever, but it closely resembled bikes that sold for $2500+ a decade ago, and probably works as well as they ever did.

All the unobtainium bikes seem to be garnering all the press, but there are definitely still some nice bikes for reasonable prices out there.


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## Hooch (Jun 30, 2006)

hmm I have a 2011 merida 96r team carbon with sram X00 gear and top of the line rockshox suspension. but have just purchased a 2015 stumpy fsr evo to be my general duties bike as whilst that thing is a weapon, its a race bike and for a heavy guy I'm scared or breaking it. so the stumpy is having custom built wheels made for it. pick it up in 2 weeks, can't wait.


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## urban_comando (Nov 12, 2014)

I didnt read all of this thread but the gyst is you CANNOT argue the data. All the fancy marketing and hype in the world wont beat cold hard results. 

The snowmobile industry was in a VERY similar situation as the bicycle industry is now during the 70's into the 80's where there were TONS of manufacturers all fighting for market share and most of them selling radically different product than each other claiming this and that but time + data SPEAKS and now? Theres four manufacturers left and really only ONE decent design chassis that everyone already has or is copying now.

Time will tell. Reckless commitment to new products with unknown and unsupported consumer input is the sure fire fastest way to bankruptcy or a buy out.

Not popular speak, but holds true with business; Fast and Furious is thrilling but over the course of life? Slow and steady wins the race


Its all about market saturation vs time. How long will people want "x" product and how much will they pay now vs then etc.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

VTSession said:


> New and improved standards are fine when they come about every 5-10 years. Standards that change ever 2 years are a pain for consumers. I'm sick of it. I started biking in the mid 90s as a kid and it was easy finding parts because there were just a handful of sizes for every part. Good luck walking into a bike shop nowadays with a 3+ year old bike and finding the right parts you need in stock. *I have a 2012 26 inch full suspension bike that I can't even find a new wheelset for.* Screw the industry and their BS innovations. I just want to be able to find parts for my bikes.
> 
> Don't make a part wider or bigger by a couple mm's and try to tell me its going to change my riding.


I began to panic a couple of weeks ago when Fox introduced their 2016 lineup and I saw that it did not include 26" forks. I heard Rockshox is following suit. I bought a 2013 Spec. Carbon Enduro new on sale just a little over a year ago that I intend to ride for at least 3 to 5 more years. I already have a back up fork but I was concerned about wheels. I did an upgrade with Spec. to go from the stock wheels to their carbon wheels (for $450) that only come on the sworks Enduro model and I'll never go back to aluminum. Of course Spec. does not have any of these 26" wheels for sale anymore and they were very "cheap" for carbon wheels at $1400 a set. I was beginning to wonder what I would do if I needed a new carbon wheel/rim next year, or 2 to 3 years from now and I didn't want to pay $500 to $800 for one rim alone. I just ordered some 33mm outer/27mm inner Chinese carbon wheels from light-bicycle for $403 and I'm going build up the wheels for a little less than $800 (including the $403 for the rims). I've seen mostly good reviews and I'm really hoping they hold up - if they do, I'll probably order another spare set of rims. Another thing I'm a little concerned about is availability of shocks so i'll probably stock up on one of those too when I find a deal.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

You guys are all paranoid. 26" stuff is all over the Internet, new and used. And, it'll be that way for a long time.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> You guys are all paranoid. 26" stuff is all over the Internet, new and used. And, it'll be that way for a long time.


The problem is going to be with new forks and shocks (no more 26 from Fox and I've heard and am sure it will be the same with Rockshox), and the major bike manufacturers aren't making 26 wheels (and tires) anymore since they aren't making 26 bikes anymore. The tire makers aren't going to include 26 sizes with any new models they come out with - that's already happening too. With most other parts it doesn't matter since they aren't effected by wheel size. If you're not concerned about this it's probably because you don't ride 26 at all or haven't bought a new 26 bike in the last year or two. I bought a new carbon 26 last year and sure wasn't planning to buy another 27.5 this year or next year, or the year after.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

pb123hou said:


> If you're not concerned about this it's probably because you don't ride 26


26 is all I've ever ridden, and it's all I'm ever going to ride.

There isn't any "new" technology coming down the line that anyone is going to miss out on because they're on 26. But there sure is going to be a lot of nice stuff for super cheap when all the lemmings move over to 27.5.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

_CJ said:


> 26 is all I've ever ridden, and it's all I'm ever going to ride.
> 
> There isn't any "new" technology coming down the line that anyone is going to miss out on because they're on 26. But there sure is going to be a lot of nice stuff for super cheap when all the lemmings move over to 27.5.


The major suspension manufacturers have been updating and changing technologies every year recently. Since they aren't making 26 forks anymore then there will be new technologies that 26 riders won't be able to take advantage of.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

pb123hou said:


> The problem is going to be with new forks and shocks (no more 26 from Fox and I've heard and am sure it will be the same with Rockshox), and the major bike manufacturers aren't making 26 wheels (and tires) anymore since they aren't making 26 bikes anymore. The tire makers aren't going to include 26 sizes with any new models they come out with - that's already happening too. With most other parts it doesn't matter since they aren't effected by wheel size. If you're not concerned about this it's probably because you don't ride 26 at all or haven't bought a new 26 bike in the last year or two. I bought a new carbon 26 last year and sure wasn't planning to buy another 27.5 this year or next year, or the year after.


I've done all the above recently. Shocks are not wheel size specific. New 26" forks and other 26" specific parts are all over the Internet. When my newest 26" fork needs service, I plan on sending it to a tuning shop and I'll have a fork that performs as well as a new one. Also a lot of 27.5 forks can be modified for 26 use. Listen, I'm all for the new technology coming out as fast as possible. But, I realize that finding 26" stuff won't be a problem for a very long time, if ever.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

New inventory turnover/retail lifecycle in the bike industry is 1-2 years. A complete phase-out would occur in at most 3 years if there were an item or a size that stopped being supported across the board.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I've done all the above recently. Shocks are not wheel size specific. New 26" forks and other 26" specific parts are all over the Internet. When my newest 26" fork needs service, I plan on sending it to a tuning shop and I'll have a fork that performs as well as a new one. Also a lot of 27.5 forks can be modified for 26 use. Listen, I'm all for the new technology coming out as fast as possible. But, I realize that finding 26" stuff won't be a problem for a very long time, if ever.


There will be no new 26 forks from Fox definitely and I've heard from Rockshox too, but they haven't come out with details on their 2016 models yet. As far as your fork, how long do you think the manufacturer will keep producing and have the internal parts in stock? You can bet they don't want to spend any of their manufacturing resources on producing those parts but only will for a while because they have to be careful about their reputation for support of their products.

"Shocks are not wheel size specific" is not a true statement. Cane Creek for instance did not and does not plan to release their DB Inline shock to fit my 2013 26 Enduro - fortunately with a small amount of initial uncertainty and hassle I was able to have it modified to fit, though.

Also, people are talking about 26 parts being all over the internet for very cheap right now - there is a reason for that. Because they are trying to get rid of them because there won't be much if any new inventory for 26 parts and shops sure don't want to have to take up space to stock parts for a product that has already been phased out. If you think there will be good, reliable, mid to high end 26 parts all over the internet a few years from now I think you are mistaken, the cheaper, after market parts should still be available for a while.

I've already had problems in finding a good 26 carbon wheel set that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I've looked, Specialized does not have anymore of the Specialized/Roval carbon wheels (or aluminum either for that matter) that will fit my bike, which I like and that are more affordable than other brands.

I have a 26 that is 7 years old and I'm not concerned about it. But like I said, I bought a brand new higher end carbon 26 for several thousand just a little over a year ago and I did not plan to replace it any time soon. I'm sure don't want to put cheaper, outdated parts on it for the next 3 to 5 years.

Although you may not be concerned, that doesn't mean this whole thing isn't a concern for everyone. Everyone is in a different situation.


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## daisycutter (Sep 18, 2005)

2011Turner DHR with fox RC 2-- $3,200

2015 Turner DHR + fox 40 + Cane Creek DB coil--$2,800

They are almost giving them away.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

pb123hou said:


> The major suspension manufacturers have been updating and changing technologies every year recently. Since they aren't making 26 forks anymore then there will be new technologies that 26 riders won't be able to take advantage of.


You seem to be under the mistaken impression that "updating and changing technologies" makes them better. It's all a load of crap. Anything that could have been done, has been done at this point, hence the sudden appearance of all these new non-compatible sizes.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

_CJ said:


> You seem to be under the mistaken impression that "updating and changing technologies" makes them better. It's all a load of crap. Anything that could have been done, has been done at this point, hence the sudden appearance of all these new non-compatible sizes.


So, you're saying that mountain bikes will never get, "better" than they are right now? Now, that's a load of, "crap". Bikes, like everything else in life, will always get, "better".


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> You guys are all paranoid. 26" stuff is all over the Internet, new and used. And, it'll be that way for a long time.


I'm honestly waiting for the first big company to realize that making a lightweight, mid-travel, poppy version of an older model of bike, and applying lessons learned from their newer models to make some insanely light, super-quick handling 26" wheeled bikes.

I think the first company to realize that a 5" travel 26" bike that is 24lb with 30mm carbon rims, 1x11 drivetrain, and good tires is going to make a killing selling those, and the whole bike press will be tripping over themselves to declare that 'fun bikes are back'. I'm just more impressed that none of the current outside-looking-in mid-size manufacturers have pursued this options... especially ones without giant R&D budgets but looking to establish themselves as leaders in a market (GT, Diamondback, Marin, Airborne, Fezzari, a few others). Commencal have come close, but just don't have the market penetration to show people just how awesome their Meta HH is; the full build is also on the pricy end too. The Evil Uprising showed how good a properly sorted bike can be, and for lots of riders the SB-66c is still 'the' bike.

I think it should be possible to hit a <25lb carbon (at least front triangle) bike with solid parts, and make it profitable under a $3000 MSRP, I just can't say with certainty that enough people would look at it to appreciate what it is -- instead I keep hearing silly puffery about 650+ being the best direction to go, because it's fun and controlled but not really fast -- what's wrong with flickable and fun even if it's not maximally fast?


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## mfrdhracer (Jan 13, 2006)

Most of my purchases are used. so the new standards are kind of helping me out. i can pick up parts that are a few years old, in perfect working order for dirt cheap. everyone thinks they need the newest coolest thing. fine with me.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

_CJ said:


> You seem to be under the mistaken impression that "updating and changing technologies" makes them better. It's all a load of crap. Anything that could have been done, has been done at this point, hence the sudden appearance of all these new non-compatible sizes.





Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> So, you're saying that mountain bikes will never get, "better" than they are right now? Now, that's a load of, "crap". Bikes, like everything else in life, will always get, "better".


I've been upgrading a Fox fork with new Fox damper and air cartridges as they come out for the past 2 1/2 years and there have been major performance gains from doing this.

But maybe you're right _CJ, and I guess computers, phones, TV's, cars, and everything else isn't getting any "better" either.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

pb123hou said:


> But maybe you're right _CJ, and I guess computers, phones, TV's, cars, and everything else isn't getting any "better" either.


Depends how you define "better".

No amount of new fangled gadgetry is going to turn a sub-par rider into a world class pro, and a world class pro could smoke most riders even if he were on a rigid bike.

And no...newer/updated computers, phones, TV's, cars don't make my life any "better".


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## ducimus (Nov 8, 2014)

pb123hou said:


> The major suspension manufacturers have been updating and changing technologies every year recently. Since they aren't making 26 forks anymore then there will be new technologies that 26 riders won't be able to take advantage of.


Both Fox and Rockshox are making 26 forks. It is right on their websites. Also quick search shows a lot of manufactures are still making 26 bikes. I just bought a 2015 26 DH bike. There is still a lot of demand ($$$) for 26.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

This thread is full of Chicken Littles. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. The bike industry is making me buy a ten thousand dollar 27.5 bike or I'll never be able to ride again. Guess what, a 26" wheel fits in a 27.5" fork....

Forks have been shimmed for YEARS to lower the travel for DJ and other applications. There's always a way.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

kazlx said:


> This thread is full of Chicken Littles. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. The bike industry is making me buy a ten thousand dollar 27.5 bike or I'll never be able to ride again. Guess what, a 26" wheel fits in a 27.5" fork....
> 
> Forks have been shimmed for YEARS to lower the travel for DJ and other applications. There's always a way.


That's what I'd like to do. Oh but they say, "you're going to ruin years of R&D". "You think you know better than the bike companies"?


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

OMG, my fork has .750" more travel or A-C height than it should! My bike is no longer validated.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

I've never been pushed, my income dictates the balance between my personal needs and wants and with that I buy used and have no ill will with buying Vins old Jedi for a smoking good price off pinkbike


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## SlimTwisted (Jun 14, 2006)

Read this one- MBT: Das Rant

To quote from it: "why in the world is it costing us more to go from triple rings in the front (with the needed derailleurs, shifters, cables etc.) to a single setup? In what other arena can you think of where shaving off 2/3 of a given assembly costs the consumer more? We're actually paying for far fewer options and being told to be excited about that."


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

" The bike industry tricked me."

Go ahead and listen to how that sounds. "They tricked me." Even if you really feel that way I'm not sure you should admit to it on a public forum.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

It should really say, "I'm not a competent adult able to make rational decisions based on balancing my needs, wants and budget"....


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## far raider (Oct 4, 2004)

man w/ one hand said:


> Cutting edge...oh you mean for the 27.5" & 29" stuff, but not 26" and lets not forget the fat bikes & the 20" kids bikes.....trendy. I guess they have to keep throwing crap against the wall & hope something will stick....hopefully.


Don't forget gravel bikes! - AYFKM?


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Back in the day when Avalanche first came onto the scene, a lot of people laughed at how expensive their shocks (DHS) and their forks (DHF) were... even though everything was custom made for you. Nowadays we're seeing suspension parts that are just as pricey. Inflation? New tech? I don't know. 

Just makes you wonder where things are going.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Christopher Robin said:


> Just makes you wonder where things are going.


Hopefully better and more expensive. It keeps the riff raff off the trails.


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