# Planning on putting Alfine 11 on early Salsa Fargo: general advice



## ryoanji (May 3, 2015)

I have never ran IGH, but I would like to try it on Salsa Fargo. The primary purpose of the bike would be winter commuting (so fenders) and easy routes bikepacking.

I am planning on buying the following pre-built wheel:
Shimano Alfine SG-S700 11-speed with Mach1 Neo Disc 32 holes black | Wheel 28" with gear hub Shop

Pre-alternator Fargos have horizonal dropouts. From reading on IGHs, it appears that the most economical solution would be chain tensioner. Most people are averse to using them. Is it just aesthetics? I know these tend to generate some noise but that doesn't concern me much.

Also, if I go that route, what chainring / sprocket combination would you recommend? I am in Bay Area and it is pretty hilly around here. I believe fine print on Shimano docs for Alfine 11 recommend torque ratio of 1.9. So, if I put 38 / 20 this will translate to 30 / 28 on the lowest end and it might not be enough for some hills around here.


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## merlinm (Feb 12, 2010)

I have a chain tensioner with my A11. It's definitely the way to go for any non-road bike. Chain slap is zero; a tensioner (get the alfine one) has will keep the chain very tight and the bike is easier to service. It's also more durable and less prone to breakage due to position.


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## ryoanji (May 3, 2015)

Thanks! Which cranks would you recommend? Alfine ares are a bit pricy, are the worth it?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ryoanji said:


> Pre-alternator Fargos have horizonal dropouts. From reading on IGHs, it appears that the most economical solution would be chain tensioner. Most people are averse to using them. Is it just aesthetics? I know these tend to generate some noise but that doesn't concern me much.


If you have horizontal or sliding/swinging dropouts you don't need a tensioner.

If you have vertical dropouts you do need a tensioner.

Which do you have?


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## ryoanji (May 3, 2015)

vikb said:


> Which do you have?


I have an early Fargo, so no alternators and hence my post.

I know you have been running A11 on your bikepacking bike. Can I ask which gearing ratio do you use and how limiting do you find it on the low end?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ryoanji said:


> I have an early Fargo, so no alternators and hence my post.
> 
> I know you have been running A11 on your bikepacking bike. Can I ask which gearing ratio do you use and how limiting do you find it on the low end?


No alternators so that means horizontal or vertical dropouts?

32T x 23T with a lightweight load it climbs pretty well. It's not an uber low granny gear though. I used the same ratio with an Alfine 8 on my fatbike for years in sand/snow and with camping gear in summer. I had no issues with it.


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## merlinm (Feb 12, 2010)

ryoanji said:


> Thanks! Which cranks would you recommend? Alfine ares are a bit pricy, are the worth it?


Not sure. All I can say is what I did. Went with the Stylo cranks which was mainly an economic driven choice. About 6 months in they developed some lateral play but the LBS was able to tighten that out. Cranks are not something I pay a whole lot of attention to and will tend to go with the cheaper available options.


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## merlinm (Feb 12, 2010)

vikb said:


> If you have horizontal or sliding/swinging dropouts you don't need a tensioner.
> 
> If you have vertical dropouts you do need a tensioner.
> 
> Which do you have?


That is true. However I do appreciate how easy it is to pop the rear wheel off .


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

merlinm said:


> That is true. However I do appreciate how easy it is to pop the rear wheel off .


The whole reason I've added IGHs to bikes is to make the drivetrain more robust and lower maintenance. Adding in a chain tensioner where not needed defeats that purpose and adds extra weight to an already heavy drivetrain.

I rarely remove the rear wheel from my frames so an extra 30 seconds to do so never seems much of a burden.


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## ryoanji (May 3, 2015)

Thanks, *vikb* and *merlinm*.

I do have horizontal dropouts, so I will need a tensioner. One thing I wonder is that 32T x 23T that *vikb* is running is quite low. It yields ~1.4 ratio, whereas Shimano suggests not going below 1.9. You have never experienced any problems related to that with your A11? I would imagine you are pretty powerful rider.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ryoanji said:


> Thanks, *vikb* and *merlinm*.
> 
> I do have horizontal dropouts, so I will need a tensioner.


Horizontal dropouts *do not* need a tensioner. You tension the chain by moving the hub forwards or backwards.


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## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

vikb said:


> Horizontal dropouts *do not* need a tensioner. You tension the chain by moving the hub forwards or backwards.


Vik, the I think the OP is just confused with the terminology. The Fargo has vertical dropouts, not horizontal, so he will need to run a tensioner.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

formula4speed said:


> Vik, the I think the OP is just confused with the terminology. The Fargo has vertical dropouts, not horizontal, so he will need to run a tensioner.


Thanks. :thumbsup:

I assumed so. It's a pretty key bit of terminology to get right if you want to ask questions online when folks can't see your bike.


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## ryoanji (May 3, 2015)

No, I am not confused  It was rather an unfortunate mistake when typing a reply past midnight after a long day. Yes, my Fargo has vertical dropouts. Thanks again!


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## merlinm (Feb 12, 2010)

ryoanji said:


> Thanks, *vikb* and *merlinm*.
> 
> I do have horizontal dropouts, so I will need a tensioner. One thing I wonder is that 32T x 23T that *vikb* is running is quite low. It yields ~1.4 ratio, whereas Shimano suggests not going below 1.9. You have never experienced any problems related to that with your A11? I would imagine you are pretty powerful rider.


The reports on this are very mixed. At 32x18 I did have issues with gear 2. However, in defense of the A11 I believe that many failures some riders are experiencing (including mine) are accumulated damage from slips coming from misaligned cable. I had some cabling issues early on (the LBS got them sorted) but I believe the damage was done. Regardless, I just sucked it up and worked around the issue rather than warranty the part. My choice of cogs was more based on the type of riding I was doing rather than what I thought the hub could handle.

vikb is running 32x23 for bikepacking (!). this makes me believe that a well set up hub will probably work. For a 100% mtb bike if I did it over again with a IGH I would probably go with the a8 and run 32/23. This would suck for flats obviously. More likely I would do 1x10 or 1x11, the sram 10-42 cassettes are starting to become affordable giving similar gear range and a lot (but not all!) of the same benefits as an IGH.


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## ryoanji (May 3, 2015)

merlinm said:


> this makes me believe that a well set up hub will probably work.


Can you please detail a bit more on that? What was the nature of your troubles with cable guiding? Don't want to repeat them!

Also, I have just looked up the price of 1x11 cassettes. Wow, those are pricy!


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## merlinm (Feb 12, 2010)

ryoanji said:


> Can you please detail a bit more on that? What was the nature of your troubles with cable guiding? Don't want to repeat them!
> 
> Also, I have just looked up the price of 1x11 cassettes. Wow, those are pricy!


Main issue I had was that the lock washers allowed some rotational play of the hub against the frame. The hub would rotate forward, causing the cable to extrude out messing with tension. The solution was to make sure the nuts securing the hub were very, very tight. A better precaution would be to buy a single speed frame.

The sram cassettes are coming down, around 250$ for the X1 plus you have to get the special derailleur they sell. My point is that you'd be out similar $$ for a Ax11 setup so it would come down to preference.

If you're on a budget you could go the shimano route (11-42) 1x10 by swapping in a 42t cog. There's lots of info about that on some other threads. Depending on what you're coming from, this could be a very cheap option. The main downside here is the return of chain slap -- I like a quiet bike.


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## ryoanji (May 3, 2015)

That is good info, thanks. I would imagine wide range cassettes will come done in price even more over time. I will keep that in mind. Now, the fun part - buying the wheel and going IGH!


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## merlinm (Feb 12, 2010)

ryoanji said:


> That is good info, thanks. I would imagine wide range cassettes will come done in price even more over time. I will keep that in mind. Now, the fun part - buying the wheel and going IGH!


good luck! If this helps IIRC I was out around 1100$, maybe a bit more. This included the hub, shifter, alfine small parts kit, new tire (TCS nano), stylo cranks/BB, and labor. This was all done by a LBS and they built the wheel also. Be advised I had to have the spokes tightened a couple of times as well.

My last piece of advice: if the hub is not shifting perfectly on every gear, keep messing with it until it does...take it in if you have to.


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## ryoanji (May 3, 2015)

*Merlinm*, thank you once again for the advice! I really appreciate it


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Alfine 11 sounds cool but I'm much happier with a 1X10 SLX drivetrain on my Bullitt cargo bike. Maybe try an Alfine 8 on another frame with horizontal dropouts. 

If I go to an IGH it will surely be the Nexus 3 speed with coaster brake. That makes for some fun and maintenance free riding.


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## ryoanji (May 3, 2015)

Main draw of IGH for me is bad weather commuting, and 1X drive train doesn't really solve that issue.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ryoanji said:


> Main draw of IGH for me is bad weather commuting, and 1X drive train doesn't really solve that issue.


Just be aware IGHs can be very boring. Months go by and nothing needs to be done to the bike. My GF rides daily on her IGH commuter and about once a year I go over her bike install new tires, fresh chain and fresh brake pads. Then she is off! :thumbsup:


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