# Trek Superfly 20" built up for christmas... meh



## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

Built up a brand new Trek superfly 20" for my little one, some observations below.

He is coming off a 16" early rider belter, that bike was an absolute work of art, amazing welds, belt drive, components incredibly well thought out.

I wanted the 20" early rider for him but got cold feet as I was concerned the internal speed hub wouldn't have the range for real mountain biking. I then started looking at the Isla Bike, Woom and Superfly, eventually settling on the latter.

I share a garage with another family that has an islabike Beinn, so I was able to compare these side by side. My conclusion, unless you really need to be able to fit 2.1"+ tires the islabike is better in every way.

The built up Trek came in at 19.18lbs including pedals and wheel reflectors, the identical Beinn is at 17.55lbs

The frames on both are quite nice, with Trek opting to use full size tubing and isla using 1" steerer and smaller seat tube for weight savings. One notable geometry difference is the Isla seat angle is steeper, I believe this will help the little ones when climbing. It does make the bike a little more compact so perhaps the trek will fit bigger kids better.

When comparing the bikes you can tell Trek went into the generric parts bin pile while the Isla uses better components across the board

The 140mm cranks on the trek are ridiculously long for the bike (and are of a stamped steel variety) Isla bike comes with nice alloy cranks vs 114m on the Beinn)

Handlebar is 560mm and the little guy was struggling with it. Islabike is at 480mm. Granted this is an easy fix but goes to show that beyond the nice frame, Trek really threw the rest of this together.

Wheels are also much nicer on the beinn, brakes o nthe Trek are cheap stamped pot metal, etc etc.

Sram deraiilluer on the Isla is alloy. Shimano tourney on the Trek is stamped steel

Some of the weight disparity is from the tires but the Trek tires came in at a very reasonable 400 grams, so not nearly as much of a difference as I thought.


In conclusion: pay up the $80 or so difference for the Isla, better spec across the board. and throw on some larger tires on it if you want to go off road...

Don't get me wrong, Trek is perfectly nice, but comparing them side by side, you truly get every single component upgraded on the Beinn


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## JCKID58 (Nov 20, 2017)

This quote is taken directly from Isla's website when referencing the Beinn 20 model.

This bike has been designed to be ridden by kids on smooth paved, grassy, or dirt surfaces with moderate gradients. It is not intended for any kind of jumping.

This is not a description of a mountain bike. That bike is designed for bike paths, which is great if that is the riding your kids are doing. It is a really, really nice bike for that. Isla's 20 inch real mountain bike the "PRO" comes in at $1500.00 and that is also a really, really nice bike, but it is $1500.00.

When we went looking for a 20 inch bike I was very interested in a Isla Bike, then I saw their description of the bikes intended purpose. We also went with the Trek. We paid $375 new, the Isla Beinn is $550.00. That's $175.00 difference. We changed the crank, shifter and rear gear, that's it. My son spent 2 1/2 years bashing through rocky, rooty Tennessee single track. By the time he got off of it he was trying to jump off or over anything he could find. The bike took everything he could throw at it, lower level components and all. He never broke a single thing on the bike. Judging from Isla's website I don't think the Beinn would have survived real off road riding, but then that particular bike wasn't designed for it either. You may be comparing apples to oranges. I'm not a Trek groupie by any means, we went with another brand for his 24 inch bike. I see many parents on here getting hung up on mere ounces of weight, in this case 26 ounces for $175.00. I get 6 or 8 pounds making a difference but ounces? My boy raced his slightly upgraded Superfly against kids with all the tricked out bikes and never finished lower than 2nd place. 5,6,7,8 year old kids just want to ride, my experience with 4 kids who ride is get them something decent and they will ride the wheels off of it.


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## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

Fair enough - for me the economics were a bit different. the $400 MSRP Trek + tax comes out to a $100 difference to an islabike shipped to my door. I think the language on the islabike side is more legal driven rather than anything else. In my experience these frames and components are already overbuilt for an average kid's weight. I do see the neighbor kids thrash theirs and take them on trails with no issue, but i realize that's not a conclusive test of strength. 

Reason I wanted to write the post wasn't to complain that the Trek is bad, I wanted those in the same boat to be aware of some key differences. I would have made a different decision if I had that info so I thought it would be useful to someone else...


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## JCKID58 (Nov 20, 2017)

It would be interesting to know how many other parents like myself went else where for a bike after reading their "disclaimer"


The more I thought about this, it's not really a disclaimer as much as it is product information for their customers. It is spelling out what particular consumer this bike was built for. That and the pictures of the bike with fenders and racks definitely says this is not a MTB but a hybrid/bike path bike.


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## Danimal (Nov 18, 2004)

I wouldn’t have bought a bike with that disclaimer. We didn’t shop Islabikes, but we did get a 20” Superfly about a year ago. Really great bike, light weight, no suspension fork or disc brakes were a plus for me due to lower cost and weight. We went air fork and discs for the 24” bike, but not the 20”. My boys like to do oderate XC trails, but don’t ride that hard and I didn’t want to spend much on the 20” bike. The Trek was $370+tax at the shop 0.5mi from my house and should sell for $150 when my 2nd boy is done with it. Awesome!

Dan


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

If your kid is really riding hard or wants too and you are considering the 550 islabike 20"...its only a 100$ more for a real mountain bike with an air fork and hydraulic brakes. I hear you on the trek but I'm guessing your kid might not see the performance difference.


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## Crashtestdummee (Sep 14, 2015)

svinyard said:


> If your kid is really riding hard or wants too and you are considering the 550 islabike 20"...its only a 100$ more for a real mountain bike with an air fork and hydraulic brakes. I hear you on the trek but I'm guessing your kid might not see the performance difference.


Agreed, you are $100 or less away from a ready to ride real 20 inch mountain bike with air fork and hydro disk brakes. That islabike is just a road bike. Don't obsess over the weight. I think we are obsessing over weight so much we are turning mountain bikes into road bikes. As long as your not buying a 32 pound steel tank from Walmart and you get a decent quality aluminum frame with good geometry and some good functioning equipment and tires on a bike weighting 26 pounds your kid is going have a great time.

If you put that Islabike in stock trim on any trail here in AZ your kid is going to have a really hard time out there.


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## UnoTrack (Jun 21, 2017)

Interesting posts on Isla bike and how people are interpreting their disclaimer. I read it, didn't think much of it. Our Isla Beinn has gone through my first son and is now being used by my second son. We ride real MTB trails that would rather quickly take its toll on any bike considered to be a hybrid. The light weight of this bike makes a huge difference for them in being able to handle significant climbs and control the bike on rough descents. My oldest has never finished off the podium in local XC races on his Isla Creig 24" to put their level of riding in perspective. The Beinn is definitely not a road bike nor would I describe it as a hybrid in any way. I have no idea how many mt miles they have on the bike between them. Other than bent derailleur hangers from them being sloppy and dropping the bike on its right side we have had zero issues with the bike and have done just basic maintenance.

I randomly came across this thread and thought I'd post up as I am a huge Isla bike fan as you can guess. I'll try to keep track of this post if anyone has questions. The youth MTB choices has gotten better in the past 5 years. Isla solved many of the dislikes I had over what Trek and Spesh had at the time and if I were buying today I'd still make the same decision. Very glad I found them and quite happy with both my purchases.


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## Crashtestdummee (Sep 14, 2015)

When I saw this on their website I did not think they where interested in the mountain bike market. You must have at least upgraded the tires.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Crashtestdummee said:


> When I saw this on their website I did not think they where interested in the mountain bike market. You must have at least upgraded the tires.


Heh. It's a sick townie though! Seriously, I'd totally buy a 700c version for commuting if I were in the market.

To be fair, the Creig 24/26 and Beinn Pro are legit MTBs. It's really only mid-level 20" bikes where they don't have a real trail bike.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RMCDan said:


> Heh. It's a sick townie though! Seriously, I'd totally buy a 700c version for commuting if I were in the market.
> 
> To be fair, the Creig 24/26 and Beinn Pro are legit MTBs. It's really only mid-level 20" bikes where they don't have a real trail bike.


Ditto, no way in hell could my 6yo kid ride that Beinin 20" and survive (they won't allow it on our local MTB kid team fwiw). But their 24" stuff and up (Creig) is pretty dope!


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## UnoTrack (Jun 21, 2017)

The standard tires worked better than expected but swapped them out for more volume and more aggressive tread pretty quickly.

Just not tracking with understanding comments like your kid not surviving on this bike. What bike are you using to enable a 6 yr old to survive? Looking at something like a Riprock 20, the Isla is 10 lbs lighter, barring crazy sloppy conditions the v brakes will work just as well as mechanical disks, so then its tires and fork. Have yet to see a fork in this price range worth its weight but would definitely agree an extra 3/4" tire width will help in stretches of trail with rock gardens. My 7 yr old (he is below avg height and weight for comparison) has no issues coming along with me for a 10 mile ride on our local race loop or 20 - 30 miles over a couple of days in the mountains when we go away for the weekend. Biggest issue with the bike is wheel size which affects rolling over the bigger stuff and BB clearance. There are sections of more technical trails (rock gardens mentioned) where give from a suspension fork and higher volume tires would prevent hike a bike but would definitely impact him drastically on a couple mile long climb. So the trade for me is grabbing a tree waiting for him to rest with heavy bike on climbs or put up with occasional hike-a-bike in the stuff likely to swallow a 20" wheel on any bike. So thinking this through as I type I'd say if you are rolling out with your kids on enduro type riding then you will find a limit. Thinking of my favorite ride which is 75% IMBA machine made ~500ft climb-ridge -decent with the other 25% natural legacy hunting trails with occasional rock garden (east coast) I have not ever felt I picked the wrong bike.

<edit>
Realized picture worth 1,000 words and such.

https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/7018051/deep-creek-loop

Submitted pictures representative of trail mix. Hope this helps with context.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Hey man, good question. Everyone rides differently and especially for kids and this is probably more of a different strokes for folks thing tbh. BTW I'd never buy a Riprock now but almost did a year ago.

For what we ride, my kid's favorite run is an easier black diamond that starts out with a bunch of flowy 6-8ft tables (he cant clear the bigger ones) a nice gap, some fast gnar/jumps with big berms and then an immediate 2ft drop into chunky transition right as you come out of a berm. That shite is scarey as a parent. If he screws up that drop and his fork isn't there to each up the rocks he is landing into...man, that's a different ride home. And he is on the pedals trying to drop me the whole time. It was one of the stages of one of our local enduro races. We do a bunch of climbing as well to get back to the car or home too. There are a bunch of kids up here that ride like this.

I mean, allowing him to ride that kind of stuff on a Beinn at that speed with no walking...it just wouldn't happen, and his Mom wouldn't allow it. 
The bike would hold him back and we probably wouldn't have realized it either thinking "he's just not ready yet".

Our Mt. Bike team wouldn't allow him on the team with that bike either. Heck I just watched RMCDan's kid clear a freaking 15ft car gap on their 20" Spawn bike. Beinn might work for some, it just wouldn't work safely for us. (we aren't riding likes Dan's wild kid yet). Groms that rip are real man. I can't imagine what it will look like a year from now when he's 7 but I'm pretty sure we'll be on a FS at that point.

For a nice Mt. bike at that price the Norco Charger 2.1 650$ isn't bad. With new tires that Beinn is approx 600$ so similar cost there. That gets you hydraulic brakes, decent wheels and tires (32h rims instead of 20h), air fork etc. My kid could jam on that for sure. Orbea MX20 Disk is a sweet rigid Mt. Bike that can be upgraded. RM Vertex 20" is really nice too for 700$. There are a few decent options. Cujo 20" is a nice plus bike. Remember, you never know what your kid will do. We didn't know mine would ride like this when we bought the YJ, but I'm thankful we did as it hasn't held him back yet and really supports skill development for manualing, pumping, jumping, dropping, drifting etc etc. Those skills are life saving on the trail at times. We add to that via some BMX cross training as well which is amazing the little guys.

I don't have a lot of on the trail videos as we don't stop for that but here is a decent 6ft drop he did the other day we were sessioning. Its steep too, you can't walk back up it and have to go into the trees. 
Kid noses it down a little (scarey) but stayed on his bike. 
Having a decent fork, which I added air too after, really helps save his wrists and keep him on the pedals when things get nasty. If He bungled this drop on a rigid fork with steeper head angle, I'd think that this could have ended with an ER trip instead of stoke.
And this is super smooth too.


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## UnoTrack (Jun 21, 2017)

Great vid, love the slowmo! Yep, the context definitely helps. We are definitely more XC; no full face, no pads, etc.


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## Crashtestdummee (Sep 14, 2015)

I got my 7 year old a new KONA Shred 20 with hydraulic disk brakes and grind air shock for $600. Awesome bike for the price. She rides very hard and I live in southern Arizona which is basically a giant rock garden for trails. She’s amoured up with g force knee and elbow pads. With some of the trails I had her on lately that Beinn would be in the dumpster and my kid in the hospital. The KONA is the not lightest bike but that’s not what we need.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Crashtestdummee said:


> I got my 7 year old a new KONA Shred 20 with hydraulic disk brakes and grind air shock for $600. Awesome bike for the price. She rides very hard and I live in southern Arizona which is basically a giant rock garden for trails. She's amoured up with g force knee and elbow pads. With some of the trails I had her on lately that Beinn would be in the dumpster and my kid in the hospital. The KONA is the not lightest bike but that's not what we need.


You don't see it in that video but when we ride the bigger trails, my kid is in a full suit of pads (jacket and shorts) made by demon. Hard pads over spine, elbows, shoulders and soft pads everywhere else. If you ride the rocks and it's not a million degrees out, it might be worth checking out. My son hit a Rock garden at speed and his wheel deflected hard and he crossed the bars. Flipped him hard over the bars in a full endo. He popped up just fine and took off but I noticed the spine pad and tailbone pad were covered in red dirt and took the blow. Freaked me out a bit but thankful he was wearing it. We use the Gforce knee pads but they aren't as good as I had hoped. He's take a few hits that still hurt pretty bad. I do think they made a new version with better pads that I'd like to check out. I am tempted to look for some harder pads now.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

UnoTrack said:


> Great vid, love the slowmo! Yep, the context definitely helps. We are definitely more XC; no full face, no pads, etc.


I checked out those trails you are riding. Pretty buff runs through some of that. Looks like a blast man!


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## Crashtestdummee (Sep 14, 2015)

svinyard said:


> You don't see it in that video but when we ride the bigger trails, my kid is in a full suit of pads (jacket and shorts) made by demon. Hard pads over spine, elbows, shoulders and soft pads everywhere else. If you ride the rocks and it's not a million degrees out, it might be worth checking out. My son hit a Rock garden at speed and his wheel deflected hard and he crossed the bars. Flipped him hard over the bars in a full endo. He popped up just fine and took off but I noticed the spine pad and tailbone pad were covered in red dirt and took the blow. Freaked me out a bit but thankful he was wearing it. We use the Gforce knee pads but they aren't as good as I had hoped. He's take a few hits that still hurt pretty bad. I do think they made a new version with better pads that I'd like to check out. I am tempted to look for some harder pads now.


I tried putting her in a bunch of hard pads and she refused to ride. Complained they were to uncomfortable and hot. I going to check out some of that demon stuff. Is this the jacket you use?

https://demonsnow.com/store/Demon-Flexforce-Pro-Youth

Right now the rule is if she will not were the better armor then no jumps and I want both tires planted on the ground. It also does not help that the actual daytime temps are hitting 110+ right now. I even find myself not wanting to where armor.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Yeah that's the jacket. We bought the previous model for half off iirc.

That's hot weather dude. I don't know how you ride in that. We have family all over PHx and even down in Cave Creek and its beautiful but hot right now. Good luck


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

Crashtestdummee said:


> I tried putting her in a bunch of hard pads and she refused to ride. Complained they were to uncomfortable and hot.


Did you know that modern impact hardening foams offer bettter impact absorbtion than old school hard pads (plastic shell over EVA foam)? This has been shown over and over in various magazine tests I have read.
Hard shells do help a bit with sliding, escepppil on knee and elbows, but for the torso, I don't really see a benefit, since its under your jersey anyway.

I am pretty happy with the IXS carve jersey for my kids.

The G-form kids pads are great for light XC, but they don't offer much protection (not CE rated!) and they are especially bad in rocky terrain, since they grip instead of slide and rip easily, plus the 'valleys' between the segments of foam allow pointy rocks to hit directly on skin.

I do like the G-form shorts, as well as the IXS shorts.

If you want cool, Dainese Trailskins are great, there whole thing is honeycomb, but they also won't slide on rock.

The IXS kids elbow and knee pads are pretty nice. The sleeve is made of fabric instead of neoprene, so much less hot. The pad itself is perforated also. That's what my girls use now. They run small.

IXs is sold in Europe a lot, but with the dollar dropping value, Euro shops have become expensive, so check US dealers for prices.


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

I had a 20” Islabikes Beinn, great low weight and ergonomic components. BUT nervous steering. She wiped out on the paved road, from a speed wobble on a downhill. 
When she wiped out on a gentle downhill corner on some rocky singletrack we went out and bought a Specialized Riprock 20”.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Are those IXS pads CE rated? I like the light breathability of the GForm but we do need something more substantial now that the kid is airborne.


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

UnoTrack said:


> Just not tracking with understanding comments like your kid not surviving on this bike. What bike are you using to enable a 6 yr old to survive?


It wasn't so much the components(other than tires) it was was the geometry of the Beinn 20 that was the issue. And we were riding the very easiest green level singletrack trails.









I had the Beinn small, so she was 3, 4 and 5 years old when she rode it, not 6.

As I mentioned above, the geometry is so nervous (short chainstays lead to short wheelbase, steep headangle) that she got a wobble at speed (less than 20 mph) on the road, over corrected and folded the front wheel over and crashed.

On another occasion, coming into a slight dip, at pretty moderate speed(less than 10 mph), she tried to carve the corner and just washed out the front wheel on the gravel and small rocks on the surface. This despite pretty good technique.

Their is a reason modern MTB's are going long, low and slack, and using bigger tires. It works to help provide stability and forgiveness, something kids need a lot of.


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

Yep, the IXs kids pads are CE rated. G-form is not breathable at all on the pad part. Most others are performed on there now.

If you need more protection, the Leatt kids knee pad came down a bit further on the shin and had side padding for the knees, so offered a fair bit more coverage than the IXS. It was also very soft and flexible, but my daughter found the IXS more comfortable. And it will certainly be less hot than the Leatt.

Let’s call the coverage area of the G-form 50%, the IXS 75% and the Leatt 90%


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Are these the IXS pads you like?

IXS Hack EVO Kids Knee Guard 2018 | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

svinyard said:


> Are these the IXS pads you like?
> 
> IXS Hack EVO Kids Knee Guard 2018 | Chain Reaction Cycles


Yes, they are.

we have recently tried about 5 different models, some in 2 sizes. The best advice I have is to get a bunch of different ones at once, and include a bigger size for the IXS, and especially Dakine ran super small, then try them all on at once to figure out which ones fit and feel best.


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