# 800 acres of land = ? miles of trail



## Boilermaker (Aug 19, 2005)

I was approached by a county wanted to build trails for horses and bikes, separate of each other. I was wondering if anyone knew of a calculation that would give a rough estimate of how many miles of trail could be put in that much space. I know there are lots of variables, but could we get 20+ miles of bike trails in with the horse stuff? I think they are thinking stacked loops. They really want to know what mileage would get people out there, not a highly populated area, and I said 20 is a good start. Is that feasible?


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## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

Boilermaker said:


> I was wondering if anyone knew of a calculation that would give a rough estimate of how many miles of trail could be put in that much space. I know there are lots of variables, but could we get 20+ miles of bike trails in with the horse stuff? I think they are thinking stacked loops. They really want to know what mileage would get people out there, not a highly populated area, and I said 20 is a good start. Is that feasible?


What is the land like? Does the land manager want any "chunks" of the property left undisturbed for the wild critters? The following is total trail miles as opposed to bike miles or horse miles.

My experience is with rolling and wooded land, so if you're flat or clear, your results may vary. One mile of trail per 25-30+ acres can result in a trail system that provides the experience of being away from it all and you won't see other trail users over on another part of the trail system. So if you have rolling and wooded land, your 20 miles is very feasible and 30 may be feasible.

One mile per 10 acres is dense enough to where you'll see another trail user here and there on other parts of the trail network, but it can be done in a way that still provides a feeling you're going somewhere as opposed to winding back and forth on yourself. Off-trail short cutting can be largely be discouraged with a couple key logs or tree tops. I feel like I'm herding deer with this trail density though.

One mile per 5 acres and you'll likely have sections where riders can high-5 each other while going opposite directions on different trails. Lots of visibility from one trail segment to the adjacent trail and lots of potential problems with trail short cutting.

I'm always interested in other people's trail density thoughts/experiences.


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## Boilermaker (Aug 19, 2005)

Nice, I think that's a pretty fair estimate and would be working with hilly terrain so thanks for the info.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Wow, we do 2-4 miles per section. Courses for sources...


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

Fattirewilly said:


> What is the land like? Does the land manager want any "chunks" of the property left undisturbed for the wild critters? The following is total trail miles as opposed to bike miles or horse miles.
> 
> My experience is with rolling and wooded land, so if you're flat or clear, your results may vary. One mile of trail per 25-30+ acres can result in a trail system that provides the experience of being away from it all and you won't see other trail users over on another part of the trail system. So if you have rolling and wooded land, your 20 miles is very feasible and 30 may be feasible.
> 
> ...


Sounds in the ball park to me.

We're working toward 18 miles of trail in a 1000 acre park that already has ski and hiking trails in its wooded hilly terrain along with camp sites, parking lots, a swimming pool, and some open fields. Our current bike trail loops have isolated spots that come close together, but no problems with short-cutting by the riders. (too much forest debris) In these places, you can't actually see the tread for the nearby trail, but you could see another rider if the timing was exactly right.

I actually like seeing trail loops across a deep ravine. Doesn't feel crowded when there's no way to reach it directly.

Walt


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## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

Mountain bike riders usually don't care if they see a fellow rider heading in the opposite direct on a different section of trail. It's like seeing the next guy you've gotta pass on the race track. I'm riding bike, not seeking solitude. 

With equestrians on the trail that all goes out the window, because often they are looking for solitude and don't want the horse to be distracted by bikers flying by.


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## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

PaintPeelinPbody said:


> Mountain bike riders usually don't care if they see a fellow rider heading in the opposite direct on a different section of trail. It's like seeing the next guy you've gotta pass on the race track. I'm riding bike, not seeking solitude.
> 
> With equestrians on the trail that all goes out the window, because often they are looking for solitude and don't want the horse to be distracted by bikers flying by.


Yes, but most mt. bike trails with any significant land manager involvement are being built w/ more than the mt. bike user group in mind. Also, many managers may want to account for the impact on the critters. My observations of "herding deer" at one mile per 10 acres isn't based on science, just personal experience. But I'd certainly read the science if such a study was done, but at the end of the day it comes down to the owner/managers "vision" for the site.

@ Walt "I actually like seeing trail loops across a deep ravine. Doesn't feel crowded when there's no way to reach it directly."

I agree, and it gives you something cool to look at. No way the hikers or users will get motivated to short-cut something like that which becomes a primary concern when designing at tighter densities.


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

*Trail Density experience*

Around Nashville, TN, we do not have any large tracts, so our trails have been somewhat high density. One I was involved in building has 23 miles of trail on 240 acres. It is mtb only. It works fine. In the winter, you can see some trail or other users occasionally. In the summer, not as much. Kind of nice to see some other users, even across on another section of trail, and allows you to connect up with your buddies. We have no cut-across problems, even though the trail gets real close in spots. Just pile up some logs an brush. Preparing to build on 160 acres in a municipal park and hoping to get in 12+ miles. (mtb only)


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## JmZ (Jan 10, 2004)

Pretty similar thoughts to FTW.

Trail in a city park, wooded, a bit hilly and rolling, right around 40-50 acres and it's about 5-6 miles of trail. And it falls right between the 5 acres per mile and 10 acres per mile he describes below. (The land was a dumping ground previously, so placing a trail has helped rehab the area).

There is an ideal amount of trail for a given park. It is a combination of what will be fun, able to handle local riders, logical to follow, and it will be an amount that can be maintained. An identical plot of land (if such a thing existed) would create different trails if located in different places depending on these things.

In some areas the choices are between a packed in trail, a trail that is too short, and no trail, it is an imperfect solution, but it still allows for riding. The state parks have had a more open layout and the feel to those places doesn't feel as much like a track as a ride in the woods.



Fattirewilly said:


> What is the land like? Does the land manager want any "chunks" of the property left undisturbed for the wild critters? The following is total trail miles as opposed to bike miles or horse miles.
> 
> My experience is with rolling and wooded land, so if you're flat or clear, your results may vary. One mile of trail per 25-30+ acres can result in a trail system that provides the experience of being away from it all and you won't see other trail users over on another part of the trail system. So if you have rolling and wooded land, your 20 miles is very feasible and 30 may be feasible.
> 
> ...


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