# Thinking about giving it up...



## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

I'm finding I don't really care if mtb goes anywhere anymore, more and more just another group of entitled users. I have been building mtb trails since the mid 80's, officially since the mid 90's. I have watched mtbing go from a simple back to nature oriented movement to a heavily commercialized international industry for the wealthy and entitled. Eff that... :skep:


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

There are plenty of us around that are not riding the latest expensive super bike. My main bike is a 2014 Santa Cruz Superlight I paid $1600 for four years ago. My most recent bike is a 2017 Kona Unit, SS rigid that I bought last year. And plenty of us that love backcountry singletrack over groomed flow trail. The wealthy entitled just make the most noise.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

You find that with any hobby, its becomes a heavily commercialized international industry for the wealthy and entitled.

Look at the recent stories about Everest. Climbers dying because of long lines to get to the top of a rock. Climbers complaining about long lines. 

Or the "overland" fad that's going around. Buying the latest gear to put on their lifted 4x4 to drive to work. Huge array of LEDs....for city driving. RTT to carry around just to carry around. 

At the end of the day, you do you and do what makes you happy. Ignore the people who follow the latest fad. Go back to your roots and ride the way you have always enjoyed riding.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Personally, as a trail advocate I see "what we ride" and "where we ride" as two completely different things.

No groomed flow trails in my neck of the woods. The environmental lobby is too strong. Not that I want those anyway. We can do much better.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Nothing wrong with changing or evolving passions. Burnout is real. Nobody does this for the money in it, so if you’re not inspired anymore you won’t be doing anyone any favors, least of all yourself. Walk away or take a break before you become bitter and disillusion the next generation.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

You need a new passion to chase. That could still be in mtb, but might not. Perhaps choose something that complements mtb. I delved heavily into kitesurfing for 10 years. I still kitesurf now. I kitesurf when conditions are right for kiting and bike when conditions are right for biking. 

Its glorious. Mtb gives me the leg strength and aerobic, kitesurfing gives me a rock hard core. 


Side note. Who cares about the prentous wankers. Get out into the forrest away from them and blissfully ignore them.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

bsieb said:


> I'm finding I don't really care if mtb goes anywhere


Sounds like a breakthrough to me.

Just build and ride for fun.
Way more enjoyable.


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## Kolchak (May 15, 2017)

Silliness. You might as well go crawl under a rock if you can't handle people having fun the way they want because they might have better things than you. You sound like the kid who loved Green Day until they made a hit song and became more famous.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

bsieb said:


> I'm finding I don't really care if mtb goes anywhere anymore, more and more just another group of entitled users. I have been building mtb trails since the mid 80's, officially since the mid 90's. I have watched mtbing go from a simple back to nature oriented movement to a heavily commercialized international industry for the wealthy and entitled. Eff that... :skep:


Maybe just back off for a while.

Are you talking mtb in general or just your involvement with trail building?

Personally I'm digging riding as much as ever, probably more. Trail building , well I lost interest. Mostly due to disagreements due to having a different philosophy than some other builders. In the past I had a huge passion for building, cared too much, then got soured, backed away for a bit, settled down, and now I'm back at it in a more healthy way but much less intense about the whole building thing. Point is, letting it go for a while cleared my head, reset my brain if you will - and now I'm back in a much better way.


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm only digging because I don't like the trails I have available to me despite there being great terrain that could be built the way I want to ride. 

I'm also not a huge fan of the bro/brah jock mentality that mountain biking has been heading towards in the last few years. . . but I love riding the type of trails that those frat types are drawn towards. . . who knows what the future holds, but for now I'll just enjoy building and riding trails that make me smile and enjoy the good people in the sport.


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

No one likes a quitter.

Stay off the intrawebs and stravas for a few thousand miles.
Pedal what you like even if you didn't build it/maintain it.
Go ride new places.
Then, go back to the stuff you built and maintained and see what the new kids say.
Getting stuck between the now and the glory days can be frustrating.
Ride for yourself, but build/maintain for the future?


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

i was a volunteer radio DJ at a college/community radio station from 1999-2016.

one day, sat down to gather music for my show and just couldn't do it. producing radio shows had been one of my top three passions for that many years and i just walked away. it became too much work and was no longer adding positive energy to my life.

so i feel what you're saying. and you know what? do what YOU feel is right for YOU.

another thought along the lines of MTB'ing becoming commercialized--that might be the case for some but not for all. mountain biking is what we make it for ourselves. 

my two cents.


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

unrooted said:


> I'm only digging because I don't like the trails I have available to me despite there being great terrain that could be built the way I want to ride


Et tu, Brute?


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

It's also become sustainable, the trail and products inventory lets me enjoy it in my 6th decade, and it's neat to see the way girls, kids and moms are into it like never before.

About every time I get burned out with the volunteering I also meet someone new who's had a great or transformative experience with the sport. For one spring work day this year my crew was more than 1/2 girls, young women and moms of the girls. It wasn't just cool that it happened that way. It was cool to see how they were so into it and best listeners ever for a crew that didn't have a lot of experience.

Racing has never been my thing but we have some NICA coaches and team leaders who are just amazing. Where I'm a trail leader the NICA team has nerds and autistic kids every bit as welcome and respected as the stars. Does that happen at in the gym or sports fields across town? No way.

The wealth complained about has funded what used to be a struggle and it hasn't stopped me from riding and enjoying it. I see people forget their politics on a group ride I help lead. Sometimes I count 4-5 moms out with or without kids on my ride from home trail. The more accessible trails we've built have meant all the world to two I know who've dealt with cancer.

I'm not going to give it up so fast. I'm not bothered by change. Some of it is just all too good even if most if it's not for me.


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## S​​usspect (May 12, 2017)

bsieb said:


> I have watched mtbing go from a simple back to nature oriented movement to a heavily commercialized international industry for the wealthy and entitled. Eff that... :skep:


I relate to this, not that I've been around biking as long but always had a thing for the back to nature sports. Originally I got into backpacking/hiking, which is basically moving very slowly through the woods, "leave no trace" and all that. I like the quiet out there, and now that I bike I often ride alone.

MTB is a different animal, and the future does seem driven by community and industry recognition of the money at stake. Where I live in NWA, we have massive ongoing trail builds funded by the local Walton family.... sh*t, trails like this getting handed to us on a regular basis can make even the not-so-wealthy develop entitlement issues (about trails, at least). I'm loving all the access it has given to the woods.

I've had a little trouble fitting into the local bike culture of corporate men on bright carbon bikes, but like I said... I like to bike alone. Less friction.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

For me mountain biking and trail work is what I do to relieve stress and get away from the day to day BS that drags us down. If it gets to a point where it's causing me stress then it's time to reevaluate why I'm doing it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Miker J said:


> Maybe just back off for a while.
> 
> Are you talking mtb in general or just your involvement with trail building?
> 
> Personally I'm digging riding as much as ever, probably more. Trail building , well I lost interest. Mostly due to disagreements due to having a different philosophy than some other builders. In the past I had a huge passion for building, cared too much, then got soured, backed away for a bit, settled down, and now I'm back at it in a more healthy way but much less intense about the whole building thing. Point is, letting it go for a while cleared my head, reset my brain if you will - and now I'm back in a much better way.


I resemble this in a lot of ways. Started digging on trails 20yrs ago, and have graduate level education in environmental science so I know a few things. Got involved in a club where a lot of the active builders were engineers who had a wildly different philosophy than me, and wouldn't listen to anything I had to say. The conflicts soured me in a bad way on building so I stepped away from it.

I've become involved in other ways. The main thing I've been doing for the past year is serving as a NICA coach, and I love it. Been getting a little more of a trail building bug lately, and primarily because even though I live in an area with no shortage of mtb trails in general, we simply don't have the kind of facility to be able to host a NICA race and I've started working with a group who's also interested in being able to do that. Being able to bring a NICA race to the area would go a long way, I think, towards getting more kids on the 3 local teams to just try it out, but also make the league more attractive to others in the general region and might help bring more teams online.

I've never fit in with the enduro-bro type of riders/riding all that well. I like riding for different reasons. Hell, I don't race, either, and I mostly enjoy coaching the kids on my NICA team who aren't all that interested in racing. They just sign up for the team for the group rides and skills practice with their friends 2-3 times per week. My favorite rides are the ones where I stop for the flowers, to listen to or observe wildlife, enjoy the view, enjoy a swimming hole, etc. I like long rides and bikepacking (though my fitness has needed improvement now that I live in an area with bigger elevation and higher fitness requirements). It's taken some time, but I'm finding people who like to ride the way I do, and that helps. I still ride by myself or with my wife most frequently, but having that crew with similar interests helps me to avoid getting jaded by the enduro-bros shredding the gnar.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Just to be clear, I'm not giving up my rigid steel Coconino any time soon. More into bike packing, klunking.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

bsieb said:


> Just to be clear, I'm not giving up my rigid steel Coconino any time soon. More into bike packing, klunking.


sounds like a lot of folks I know in this town. I know at least 15 folks still putting serious miles on their rigid 15 year old singlespeed Coconinos. Give me 5" of full squish but they seem quite content.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Nothing stays the same, nothing. Life is a moving target. Adapt because the old days ain't coming back.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Mr Pig said:


> Nothing stays the same, nothing. Life is a moving target. Adapt because the old days ain't coming back.


Funny, I wish folks from the environmental lobby could accept that simple fact. They pine for days when their were no bikes on the trails. They feel to realize that we're now on the 3rd or even 4th generation when it comes to the progression of the sport. Both bikes and the type of user experience. More and more the next generation is looking for greater diversity in trails.

edited for clarity.


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## S​​usspect (May 12, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> Nothing stays the same, nothing. Life is a moving target. Adapt because the old days ain't coming back.


This is true, no doubt. But Thank G*d we can still go into the woods, on a bike, for whatever reason and purpose we want to. All trends aside.


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## Empty_Beer (Dec 19, 2007)

If you aren't already involved with a middle school MTB program, or even a high school team, it does bring you back to the simple joys and hard knocks of riding a bike on dirt.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

bsieb said:


> Just to be clear, I'm not giving up my rigid steel Coconino any time soon. More into bike packing, klunking.


Wondered if you were talking _all of it_ or just trail building. Was going to ask/suggest looking more into the bike trips / bike pack and camping if you were not already into it. Maybe something different to keep it fresh or back to basics.

Just looking at bikepack gear and pictures of others trips or reading trip reports fires me up. Dirt roads, open fields, beaches or mountain path etc... When it doesn't, not sure what's next.

Thanks for the clarification - find your way - your way :thumbsup:


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

bsieb said:


> Just to be clear, I'm not giving up my rigid steel Coconino any time soon. More into bike packing, klunking.


 I too have been into bikepacking for a while, even before it was a term. Just 1.75 road slicks on back country stuff wasn't cutting it. Plan a trip of at least a week, hit some beer places or good swimming holes. Or both. I revel in the smells of warm summer rain, esp in a field or pine forest. Cheers.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

I'm only two years into formal advocacy and trail building (at least in a leadership role) and already the thought of 'burnout' crosses my mind. The biggest issue in my mind is I can't help but ask myself why I put countless hours of volunteer work into a pastime for the wealthy when I could volunteer to help those that need it more. I like to think that I'm creating trails for the masses to enjoy and use as rejuvenation so that they can go out and help the needy... But that's probably just a BS rationalization. If/when I burnout it will be for this reason - to give my time to a group that needs it more than MTBers.



evasive said:


> Walk away or take a break before you become bitter and disillusion the next generation.


Yes, please! As someone in 'the new generation' of advocacy folks in my area, I can say for sure that we don't need to hear from you if you're over it. That's cool, I may get there some day too but let me do that on my own time.

No one needs to be told that volunteer positions are thankless, we got into it knowing that. You did too, you just did it too long and lost sight of why you did it in the first place. That's natural, but doesn't need to be shared.

(The 'you' here is just hypothetical, not pointing any fingers as I have no reason to believe anyone in here is doing this but it's worth saying.)



Kolchak said:


> You sound like the kid who loved Green Day until they made a hit song and became more famous.


... And you sound like the kid trying to argue that their music didn't turn to garbage before/after Insomniac. It's not my fault they sucked once they got famous.

(I think we might be off topic here.)


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)




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## bpressnall (Aug 25, 2006)

I think I have around 1000 days of unpaid trail work in, but it's all worth it when a guy comes riding by, giving me a look like, "Dude, you're in my way".


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## homeslice (Jun 3, 2008)

If you're feeling burnout than riding more and fixing/building less could help you out. I'm cutting back on trailwork and riding more because all riders should do their share digging too. Nobody has privilege over another.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

I got to say, this has been an unusually productive day on the trail front. Things have started to FLow finally, so I may make one more run before cashing it in. A signature trail I have worked much of my life to bring into being has been dropped in our (I'm the leader of a mtb club) lap. This is going to be fun... any of you rv hobos looking to park and work get in touch. Yay! Sorry to be a dark cloud there for a bit.  And no, I have not changed my meds.


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

bsieb said:


> I'm finding I don't really care if mtb goes anywhere anymore, more and more just another group of entitled users. I have been building mtb trails since the mid 80's, officially since the mid 90's. I have watched mtbing go from a simple back to nature oriented movement to a heavily commercialized international industry for the wealthy and entitled. Eff that... :skep:


So ****ing true. In case there's a trace of your old passion left, come to Vermont. It will be totally crushed and you can move on with your life. Filters. Filters. Filters. Big climbs, tech trails, no marketing.

I feel exactly like you do having fled that scene for a small town with no riding. I created it over the last 12 years. Now some local folks who are professional marketers have decided it's their duty to market the trails and host annual events to save our town with tourism $. Self appointed experts bring change without improvement.


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## Dirtrider127 (Sep 17, 2010)

One thing that might give someone that "burnt out" feeling is the lack of others helping out. When there are just a couple of people trying to move the process forward, it gets old. 
Any more for me, I'll write letters, go to trail days when I can, but mostly go by myself and clear/maintain trails near my house. Physically a bit too old to move large rocks and sling picks all day long

It takes special people to give up their day to sit in meetings with the powers to be (that don't really have a clue in most cases) and try to get approval on projects.
I thank you all that do :thumbsup:


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Dirtrider127 said:


> One thing that might give someone that "burnt out" feeling is the lack of others helping out. When there are just a couple of people trying to move the process forward, it gets old.
> Any more for me, I'll write letters, go to trail days when I can, but mostly go by myself and clear/maintain trails near my house. Physically a bit too old to move large rocks and sling picks all day long
> 
> It takes special people to give up their day to sit in meetings with the powers to be (that don't really have a clue in most cases) and try to get approval on projects.
> I thank you all that do :thumbsup:


Isn't that the truth. You dig, you decide. I live in a town of 70,000 with thousands of mtn bikers and our advocacy org has 300 members. Yet, it sure is easy to complain.

Goodonya Bsieb, you've got a pretty sweet trail network in your hamlet. Kudos for your efforts. I may hit that this weekend on my way through NM.


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## Meeners (Aug 16, 2016)

bsieb said:


> I'm finding I don't really care if mtb goes anywhere anymore, more and more just another group of entitled users. I have been building mtb trails since the mid 80's, officially since the mid 90's. I have watched mtbing go from a simple back to nature oriented movement to a heavily commercialized international industry for the wealthy and entitled. Eff that... :skep:


Don't let what is regimented in the main stream ruin why you love the sport. There are plenty of people that do it for the vibes and not the mainstream clout. The positives are there is plenty of technology and more people. Keep doing your thing, homie. We appreciate you.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

rockman said:


> Isn't that the truth. You dig, you decide. I live in a town of 70,000 with thousands of mtn bikers and our advocacy org has 300 members. Yet, it sure is easy to complain.
> 
> Goodonya Bsieb, you've got a pretty sweet trail network in your hamlet. Kudos for your efforts. I may hit that this weekend on my way through NM.


Thanks man. Good time of year here, green and cool.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

In many ways we are in a golden age for mtb. New trails opening all over, with land managers not only willing to allow access, but asking us to help them plan and build trails. New technologies with better bikes than ever.

But with the increase in popularity comes the down sides - overcrowding, over used and degrading trails, commercialization. 

All I can say is you gotta take the good with the bad. Some things you can't change. Focus on what you enjoy and avoid the noise.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## rebel1916 (Sep 16, 2006)

rockman said:


> Personally, as a trail advocate I see "what we ride" and "where we ride" as two completely different things.
> 
> No groomed flow trails in my neck of the woods. The environmental lobby is too strong. Not that I want those anyway. We can do much better.


I mean this is embarrassing nonsense. The "groomed flow trails" are almost always more sustainable/less prone to erosion then the old fashioned fantasy you are living.



bsieb said:


> I'm finding I don't really care if mtb goes anywhere anymore, more and more just another group of entitled users. I have been building mtb trails since the mid 80's, officially since the mid 90's. I have watched mtbing go from a simple back to nature oriented movement to a heavily commercialized international industry for the wealthy and entitled. Eff that... :skep:


Honestly, WTF do you care about the demographics of riders. There are some great guys who could swim in their money vaults like Scrooge McDuck and there are some giant A-holes who couldn't buy a bottle of water with their maxed out EBT card. It works vice versa too. And it doesn't have much to do with anything either way.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

rebel1916 said:


> I mean this is embarrassing nonsense. The "groomed flow trails" are almost always more sustainable/less prone to erosion then the old fashioned fantasy you are living.


Sorry man you lack reading comprehension. Nowhere do I mention trail sustainability and flow trail in the same sentence. The term flow trail can mean different things but yes, I find flow trails with endless berms boring and better suited for a bike park than on public land. I'm not against directional bike trails but would rather work in natural terrain features to add challenge and playfulness rather than jamming in an endless sequence of berms. For example, Jimmy's Mom on Teton Pass. Or, Wasabi here in Flagstaff. Now scurry along.


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## tungsten (Apr 7, 2006)

*These thrillbikers must be stopped!*


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

tungsten said:


> *These thrillbikers must be stopped!*


You can help administrators track tungsten's history of harassment by clicking on the little exclamation mark.

For those unaware, this poster is associated with "Hateful Old Hikers Association", a group that encourages and celebrates hikers boobytrapping trails with potentially deadly hazards and makes light of the death of riders who were attacked by Grizzlies. They also pose as bikers on sites like ours to sow discord, then brag about it on their site.


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## Dirtrider127 (Sep 17, 2010)

Unbelievable faceplant page.
I'm sure that FB, being the kind, fair, and equality for all PC company will ban/silent that FB group for approving of death & injury to MTB'ers


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## tungsten (Apr 7, 2006)

ki5ka said:


> For those unaware, this poster is associated with "Hateful Old Hikers Association",.


lol... *LIAR!* I only has knowledge of above FB group because fellow poster @ NSMB forums belongs.

https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/nbr-no...p-article-linked-from-outside-of-here-131144/


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Funny, I always thought that tungsten was a Mike V. sock puppet.


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## raisingarizona (Feb 3, 2009)

ki5ka said:


> You can help administrators track tungsten's history of harassment by clicking on the little exclamation mark.
> 
> For those unaware, this poster is associated with "Hateful Old Hikers Association", a group that encourages and celebrates hikers boobytrapping trails with potentially deadly hazards and makes light of the death of riders who were attacked by Grizzlies. They also pose as bikers on sites like ours to sow discord, then brag about it on their site.


Your sarcasm meter kind of sucks because that page is a joke and mocking the people that actually think like that. It's pretty funny imho.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

stop worrying if your purse matches your chamois, just ride your bike...


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

raisingarizona said:


> Your sarcasm meter kind of sucks ...


You're probably right about that.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

raisingarizona said:


> Your sarcasm meter kind of sucks because that page is a joke and mocking the people that actually think like that. It's pretty funny imho.


I spent ten minutes or so trying to figure if it was actually satire, or it had just been taken over by MTBers and became satire. Still not positive.


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## raisingarizona (Feb 3, 2009)

TheDwayyo said:


> I spent ten minutes or so trying to figure if it was actually satire, or it had just been taken over by MTBers and became satire. Still not positive.


It makes me laugh, I think that's a +.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Well waddya know? I bailed from trail building a few years back. I still ride but on other people's trails and I complain about them all the time 
Took up a new hobby.







Trails are easier to build.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Trail Ninja said:


> Took up a new hobby.


You canoe on grass? Original.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> You canoe on grass? Original.


Don't be ridiculous, Pig.

He kayaks on grass.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

Things change.


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