# Dynamo Hub with a Cannondale Lefty Fork - looking for solutions



## Craig H (Aug 27, 2015)

I have a 2013 Aluminum Cannondale Scalpel with a lefty fork. I also have a standard 100mm SP dynamo hub on a wheel with a Velocity Atlas rim, which is suitable for MTB tires. I am looking a solution which will allow me to put this wheel on the Lefty fork. I have contacted project321 and they have no solution. Another acceptable solution would be a Lefty compat. dynamo hub. I have contacted Cannondale and they do not have any dynamo hubs for Lefty or know of any solution.


Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf solution?
If not, would it be possible to assemble the specs and custom order a piece?
I have seen 12mm-15mm conversion adapters on the net, and they look pretty simple.


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## PeopleForScience (May 15, 2012)

So you are looking for a subset of a subset? Good luck with that one. I have never seen a dynamo hub for a lefty and I'd imagine that there isnt a whole lot of demand for it. Don't get me wrong, I'd probably buy one if there was one but I certainly wouldn't hold my breath. 

I highly doubt that you will be able to modify a hub that is on the market for lefty use.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

PeopleForScience said:


> I highly doubt that you will be able to modify a hub that is on the market for lefty use.


All of the trike hubs are unique to each mfg, just like the LEFTY, so there are no direct swaps. Will require milling the hub to accept the LEFTY races, and there probably isn't enough material in the trike hubs to do so, as they are designed to carry half the weight of a LEFTY hub, and do it on streets rather than trails. Also, they don't get much lateral force, and are most likely designed with that in mind for higher efficiency.

That said, I don't think there has ever been any interest in building trike specific dynamos, even for the 'bent crowd. It's a very small portion of the market, and those dedicated 'benters that need a dynamo can buy high zoot delta trikes and use a regular front dyno hub. Those that want both a tadpole trike and power source probably use bottle dynos. I've never seen a rear or trike hub dyno, nor an advertisement for one.

There there are chain driven and hub driven add ons, but these are obviously not built for the long haul, no way I'd trust them for a tour.

Your choices are limited:

1) Replace the lefty with a regular fork.
2) Custom build a dynamo setup to be driven by belt or chain off the crank.

My preference would be #2, as I've never wanted a wheel to be permanently tied to a power source. That said, 24 hours worth of batteries does not significantly change my load out or weight, and between a flexible solar panel and getting into a location with electrical access every third day, I've been able to avoid needing a dyno.


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## Craig H (Aug 27, 2015)

Flamintaco - the problem with running a dynamo off crank rotations is that you don't get the downhill charge, which is when a light is most necessary.

The solar power sounds interesting. How much space does that occupy? Do you have it on your helmet?



Flamingtaco said:


> All of the trike hubs are unique to each mfg, just like the LEFTY, so there are no direct swaps. Will require milling the hub to accept the LEFTY races, and there probably isn't enough material in the trike hubs to do so, as they are designed to carry half the weight of a LEFTY hub, and do it on streets rather than trails. Also, they don't get much lateral force, and are most likely designed with that in mind for higher efficiency.
> 
> That said, I don't think there has ever been any interest in building trike specific dynamos, even for the 'bent crowd. It's a very small portion of the market, and those dedicated 'benters that need a dynamo can buy high zoot delta trikes and use a regular front dyno hub. Those that want both a tadpole trike and power source probably use bottle dynos. I've never seen a rear or trike hub dyno, nor an advertisement for one.
> 
> ...


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## Craig H (Aug 27, 2015)

So there are at least two people known to be interested in a Lefty dynamo hub. That's progress.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

Craig H said:


> Flamintaco - the problem with running a dynamo off crank rotations is that you don't get the downhill charge, which is when a light is most necessary.
> 
> The solar power sounds interesting. How much space does that occupy? Do you have it on your helmet?


Yeah, no downhill charging when you stop pedaling, but the force required by good dynamos is so small, you don't really notice it. Just keep the crank spinning.

Better yet, mount a small battery pack in parallel with the light to charge when you are really cranking, and provide juice when you are not. 20 minutes of backup is great for filling in the gaps during descents, lighting for tent set up, etc. Backups also go a long way to keep your lamp lit at a consistent output.

I have a solar panel similar to this:









Which can be found on Amazon among other places.

Mine is about an inch wider, maybe six inches longer, and rated 10w. It has six grommets, and I use boot bands or 5mm bungee straps in the middle and end grommets to secure to my pannier, letting the rest hang off the back. It works well, I can have the panel centered above the pack, or hanging off the left or right, depending upon where the sun is at that time.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

I just recalled the first bike computer I purchased. It was back in the 80's and it used a magnetic ring that attached to the spokes and a longish sensor that both registered the pole changes to determine speed, and drove a small generator circuit in the computer to provide power. At the time, I thought battery powered bike computers would soon be a thing of the past!

Dynamo hubs certainly are compact, but as we have a convenient mounting system for rings (brake rotors), I wonder if a second small rotor could be mounted outboard of the brake rotor that would provide enough power for a light.


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## cyclingdutchman (Mar 18, 2015)

Solar power is a good idea too.

Maybe there is a modern version of the old fashion rim dynamo available and suitable.

In Europe, I know only this one:

VELOGICAL RIM-DYNAMO


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## UnumSedLeonem (Oct 10, 2008)

Well, I've been hoping for a Lefty-compatible dynamo hub since 2009. Years ago called Wilfried Schmidt of SON; he courteously responded that he would consider devising a model for the Lefty if there was more demand), but, as expected, never did (too challenging, a limited audience, etc.). 

Was stoked to find out of the Velogical some 9 months ago; ordered a few days ago; awaiting it any day now... I hope, it doesn't disappoint...


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## cyclingdutchman (Mar 18, 2015)

UnumSedLeonem said:


> Was stoked to find out of the Velogical some 9 months ago; ordered a few days ago; awaiting it any day now... I hope, it doesn't disappoint...


Unumsedleonum, do you have any first experience by now that you can share?


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## UnumSedLeonem (Oct 10, 2008)

*Here's what I know by now.*







No, but have corresponded extensively with the Velogical customer service representative, and have learned quite a bit in the last couple of weeks. 
Here's what I've learned:

1. The Velogical circuitry differs fundamentally from that of hub dynamos. Most chargers (Busch & Müller eWerk, Busch & Müller USBwerk, SuperNova / ToutTerrain The Plug (III) the excellent - judging by reviews - On-Bike Dynamo Harvester and others) aren't really meant to be charged by the Velogical units. Will they work? Likely yes, but your expectations likely won't be satisfied*.

*In defence of the Velogical, I must note that neither My SON 28 (new), nor My SON Delux (both laced into 26"-wheels for My Titus FTM Carbon) charged My phones with the The Plug II (with the lights on, anyway); the PedalPower i-model and SON Delux did charge the ex' iPhone (3G, that was 7 years ago!) for a while, then stopped working if memory serves; the combination of an eWerk and a SON dynamo rendered unsatisfactory results as well with my later phones (it did work, sort of, with the cache battery, but not without it&#8230; the cache battery died only a few months into use). The only system that does charge, albeit very slowly (and only at speeds exceeding 22-25 km/h - and stops charging every time the wheel stops rolling - is the Busch & Müller LumoTec IQ2 Luxos U (again, with the SON 28).

2. &#8230;that said, all the regular Velogical units - from Race to Special - appear to provide ample power to the headlights (i.e., in the case of all but Velogical 3-Phase model - AC lights, like the regular Schmidt Edelux (II), the dynamo-operated Supernovas and Busch & Müller AC units). If that is all you need, you won't be disappointed.

3. The On-Bike representative confirmed that their highly-touted, very well -designed Dynamo Harvester won't work with the Velogical (whether this applies to all Velogical units, or only the regular 3 models - I don't know). The Dynamo Harvester is meant for hub dynamos, not the Velogical units. Velogical has tested the Dynamo Harvester as well; they, too, assert that it doesn't work to expectation with their rim dynamos.

4. Now, here's the thing: it turns out, the Velogical has a new product, a 3-Phase rim dynamo (called Velogical 3P). Read more on it here: VELO GRID.en . From what I understand, that's exactly the model one needs to charge portable equipment AND power the lights. There's a caveat: it will excell at that, but [as of yet] ONLY with a custom-made ForumsLader charger. Above is a screenshot illustrating the ForumsLader charging stats in various setups, including all the Velogical units, as well as [unspecified] hub dynamos. It's quite impressive, check: For more information on the ForumsLader, check this link: http://www.forumslader.de/fileadmin...gical/Leistung_Forumslader_Fuer_Velogical.png 
Apparently, it provides up to 65 W of power (at just under 65 km/h; then shuts off), about 3 times that of a hub dynamo! The [best?] hub dynamos generate slightly more electricity from standstill to about 12 km/h. At above 13 km/h the ForumsLader catches up and wins convincingly, supplying progressively much power till about 65 km/h, before shutting off to protect the circuitry.

5. Unfortunately, the 3P Velogical unit is quite expensive at ca. €200,-, and if you want a blue-capped model (I do, but cannot wait that long!), you'll either have to wait till the end of the year for one - or will have to contend with a silver-capped one (N.B.: Don't mistake it for a Touring version of the regular Velogical dynamo! The 3P is vastly better, though it does look almost the same on the surface safe for 3 cables instead of 2!). It isn't cheap, but nor are the SON hub dynamos, but in combination with a ForumsLader charger it's more efficient (so I'm led to believe by both Ogando of Velogical and by Jens of ForumsLader - and the chart above).

6. Also, the 3P (3-Phase) model is easier to install and requires no use of a thermistor, as overvoltage protection is built-in.

7. On a negative note, if you have a dynamo-operated light and want to hook it up to the Velogical unit, you will be disappointed to know it's incompatible with the Velogical P3 (though it IS compatible with the regular Velogical units). For use with the Velogical (and ForumsLader) you'll need a DC light, such as the Schmidt Edelux 6-75 Volt DC model, any (don't quote me on that  ) of the Busch & Müller DC models and the Supernova DC one(s).

8. The same goes for the charger: for best results, contact Jens of ForumsLader for a charging unit for a Velogical dynamo.

I've ordered a 3P Velogical; will install it soon. I'm also in negotiations with Jens; I will procure a ForumsLader charger in the coming couple of weeks or thereabouts. Mind you, it, too, is quite expensive - it can cost up to €200 (and on occasion even more). It's also not for everyone (I expect, Linux fans would love it. I'd rather have something like the Harvester, but it's no use as it won't work with rim dynamos).

I hope, I managed to satisfy your curiosity on the matter.  I'll report as I learn more&#8230;

P.S.: I did receive a Velogical Touring (or Special? A silver version) two weeks ago; but returned it, paid the difference - and am expecting a delivery of a Velogical 3P in the course of the week.

Cheers&#8230;


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## UnumSedLeonem (Oct 10, 2008)

As of now, I'm afraid the solar power is inadequate. Not to say it will be in the future, but unless the solar energy technology has changed dramatically since My first tour to Rome in 2007, it simply does not suffice. I remember bridging My iPod Touch (and iPod Nano, intermittently) to my rather large SunLinq 12W folding solar panel and waiting for hours for it charge the device. It hardly did. Nevermind the scorching Italian sun. 
Another issue with solar chargers - the bigger folding ones, anyway - is that they're rather clunky and tend to flutter, much like sails. Unless secured very tight, they'll slow you down as much or more than any dynamo, especially in headwind. While providing very little to no power.

I don't expect for the technology to have advanced appreciably in the last 9 years.

Alternatively, you could take a high-capacity (say, 15.000 MAh and greater) power pack, charge it overnight and use it underway. The issue is that practically all of them (likely, with some exceptions) will stop working after a while: a Kensington (1400MAh), a HyperMac (7200 MAh), a Tekkeon (11.600 MAh) - you name it - all stopped working after a couple of seasons, after some 50 to 200 charge cycles. At the time they cost more (much more!) than the very attractive and affordable modern-day competition in Aukey, Anker, RavPower [and so forth] offerings. €30 for a 20.000MAh battery pack isn't too shabby, but it's still a waste if it stops working after a couple of seasons (mostly, under a hundred charges). You would still need to charge them, but thanks to their capacity, you may forego charging them daily.

Dynamos offer much greater independence during tours. That said, some combination work very well, others do not at all. 
I'll report after a couple of weeks with the Velogical 3P and ForumsLader (by the way, the ForumsLader is much-raved about in Germany; many believe it bests all the high-volume, commercially-available alternatives). 
I'll also add that many know of the Race, Touring & Special Velogical dynamos, but very few have heard of the P3. In part because it's new. In part because it caters to cyclist who prioritise on charging electronics (as opposed to powering light only) using pedal power. And because the [sort of DIY] ForumsLader is more or less the only recommended charger for the P3.


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## UnumSedLeonem (Oct 10, 2008)

I'd been hoping for one since mid-2009.  Even called Schmidt, imploring him to manufacture a year or two later… 
The advent of Lefties on many Cannondale models, including suspension-less ones in cheaper rigs, may cause him to consider catering to us.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

FWIW: with most dynohubs you can't charge and run lights at the same time, unless you are really moving. I can do it a bit with my LuxosU and SON on my road / gravel / randonneuring bike - usually above 15-16 mph - and only on long / fasts descents with the Krampus in bikepacking mode with a Shimano and Revo + USBWerk. There is only so much power to be had, and trying to do both just doesn't work.


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## bobdavisnpf (Apr 5, 2018)

I wonder how that Velogical 3P turned out for Leon... some excellent in-depth stuff in those first posts


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## UnumSedLeonem (Oct 10, 2008)

Hi, 
Pardon my belated reply; I hadn't checked the thread in years. 

The Velogical 3P dynamo is mounted on My Cannondale Caffeine F1 seat stay parallel to the rear wheel rim. Since my rig is disk brake -equipped, the wheel isn't of the milled type for rim brakes and thus, only semi-compatible with the Velogical rim dynamo. To what extent that's the culprit, is difficult to judge from my limited experience, but there are a couple of major issues with the dynamo (and likely, my setup in particular), namely: 

1. The dynamo, even when engaged, will run smooth and still for a while, then, out of the blue, start making such an insufferable, rather shill, noise that even with in-ear earphones plugged into my ears and listening to Haendel (or Joe Dassin or Aznavour, for that matter) with the volume up all the way, the buzz generated by the dynamo will drive you mad. The buzz is accompanied by a very unpleasant, strong vibration that will have you occasionally doubt if you're riding the right toy (I do suspect, I must say, that some of Monsieur Granville's patients and their modern counterparts, of whom there's an endless plethora, it appears - might actually prefer a bike with a Velogical dynamo installed to one without. To cure "female hysteria", as it were). There's no way to guess when the "hysterical paroxysm" generating apparatus will stop harassing you down there, but it does stop vibrating after a while, then, invariably, the vibration kicks in again, to proceed humiliating your masculine ego. 

2. On a Cannondale with a Lefty suspension fork mounting the Velogical apparatus on the fork creates another problem: the suspension will have to be locked out at all times, else either the Velogical is getting into the spinning spokes and prompting the rider to involuntarily and most unexpectedly resort to the most uncanny acrobatic fits, followed by a fortnight at the Intensive Care unit of the nearest hospital - or the Velogical itself is flying off the bike with equal urgency. 

3. So far so good, but I don't particularly trust a rim dynamo on fast winding descents. Reason: a flex or a deformation in the rim could potentially mean consequences described in the paragraph above. 

4. The mounting bracket, though visually of good quality (perhaps for that very reason), isn't strong enough to fix the dynamo sufficiently securely for it not to move. It does when you push it with finger: even the oval cross section of the F1's seat stay fails to help. 

5. The way mine is set up - is fairly complicated and messy: I use it in conjunction with a ForumsLader custom-made battery pack stashed in a frame bag. The 3P dynamo requires a more intricate cabling than a relatively straightforward hub dynamo's. 

As a result of all the aforementioned points, I use a USB charging cable (custom-made and quite expensive at €30) to charge the ForumsLader battery instead of counting on the Velogical 3P dynamo. I'll probably just sell it. 

All that said, I feel, to do the Velogical 3P justice, I should admit that it does not only power the light, but also charges the smartphone (via the €250 or thereabouts ForumsLader battery pack!) faster and more reliably than gimmicks like the Plug or the eWerk. Just not without a slew of compromises related above. 

The Velogical dynamo is intended for people who: 
- Have no interest in zipping down serpentines or don't mind extended visits to a hospital - POTENTIALLY, that is: it hasn't put me in a hospital yet, but I can easily foresee out might. 
- Don't mind undergoing a cure for "female hysteria" (mind you, these are the late venerable Monsieur Granville's words, not mine! I'm no proponent of such rather radical means of combatting female hysteria!): the vibrations caused by the Velogical dynamo mounted on the seat stay will deeply - and in some cases, irreparably - traumatise many a man and woman. 
- Prefer the subjectively comforting growl of a tractor engine or a helicopter propeller to the delightful voice of Cecilia Bartoli, Philippe Jaroussky or Christophe Dumaux. 
-Don't mind for their bike to look like an underground fiber optics installation. 

By the way, unlike the regular Velogical dynamos (as well as most or all hub dynamos), the 3-phase Velogical dynamo requires DC, rather than AC lights. In itself, no problem at all: there's a fairly wide and growing range of DC bicycle lights out there. 

I hope, I could be of service to you and others considering a purchase of a Velogical dynamo. 

As for myself, slim as the provability looks, I hope that SON does start designing and launches a series of Lefty-compatible hub dynamos sooner rather than later.


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

We use 4 different dynos, 4 different lights. 

But- while I'm standing up and stomping some bikes up a hill, I find myself staring at the F hub. Thinking about dynos and wishing for easier solutions. 

Knowing nothing about what this would take, and having done no research, I'd like to offer a solution. 
(I'll take 25% of all profits when this idea is bought by Salsa for a 11 billion dollars)

What about some custom brake rotor? w/ each spoke wrapped in copper. Then an armature bolts to the caliper mounts and hangs down w/ magnets, passing the copper through the magnetic field. (see above when I don't know how this stuff works). 
Maybe there are ample issues (I'm sure a stream crossing wouldn't help things) but- you could add it to EVERY bike that has disc brakes. 
You wouldn't need a lefty dyno wheel, bike pack wheel, road wheel.... shopping cart dyno...fat bike.

It would be a much more versatile set up once the issues involved w/ construction were solved. 

Any thoughts? 
-JCBs


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