# 2019 XC Race tires



## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

Continuation of the 2018 thread.

I am currently waiting for the new Orbea Oiz TR and want to do some XC races on it too, but I haven't ridden XC in about 5 years (ridden enduro, gravel and road), so I don't have any experience when it comes to XC tires. The terrain I will ride will be *mostly hardpack and loose over hard in the dry*, which is almost everywhere here where I live.
I am thinking about these combos:
*Maxxis Rekon + Rekon Race*, both 2.25 TR EXO (I really like this combo)
*Michelin Force XC*, both 2.25 (probably more universal combo than the Maxxis one?)
*Schwalbe Racing Ray + Racing Ralph*, both 2.25 Snakeskin (friend rode this combo and says it's great, but I am still not sure about going Schwalbe)

I was also considering Aspen in the rear with Rekon in the front, but Rekon Race is probably better for my use? What do you think? Thanks!


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Hardtail:
I’m running the combo I predicted I would settle with. 

Forekaster 2.35 Exo 
Aspen 2.35 Exo 


Top fuel: 

Still running my party combo. Since this is the bike I ride rowdy Grassroots racing events and do all my shenanigans on. 

HANS Dampf 2.35 pacestar
2.35 NoNo rear

Going down to NoNo front and rear. Maybe see if I can get away with a 2.25 rear without pinch flatting. 

NoNo 2.35 SS
NoNo 2.25 SS

the NoNos weigh all over the map. I have been ordering in 6-7 at a time and may consider selling off the heavier ones. Most of the 2.35s are 770, but I got one at 730 the other day. Most of the 2.25s are 685-705, but I got some at 750!


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I would add the Vittoria Mezcal to that list; fast rolling and very good grip and cornering confidence. I think you get a little bigger knobs along with the lower rolling resistance of a smaller knob tire. Downside is they're pretty avg or above avg weight.
I'm super happy with those again this year, 2 races on them so far, - hole shot on pavement both races is my evidence for fast rolling.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

2018 BMC Fourstroke 01 running on Stan's Crest rims:

1. Onza Svelt 29x2.25 120tpi TR: Wow! I've only used them for about two weeks, and they are awesome!!! They've performed really well in all conditions (no mud) and I'm very impressed with rolling resistance, cornering, grip and profile. I'm gonna buy another set to keep it as a back up

2. Continental Race King 29x2.2 Protection 219 model: ultra fast and great grip if it's dry. Not so in love with the profile. I will use them on dry courses. Very light also!


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Ill likely be running an Ardent Race 2.35 in the rear and a 2.35 Forekaster in the front for this spring. Will be switching back to a Mezcal rear, Barzo front when races kick off. 

Shwalbe recently dropped a new XC tire, I haven't looked much into it though because Scwalbes don't last on my local trails.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

I was just going to post on this haha. 

Im finding my xr2 2.2 squirms in the hard corners. Also my trails are like packed clay you can ride cx bikes on. Just when i leave the province i could put the big volumes on for rocks and such. 

Maybe 2”-2.1” tires would be better for climbing and a 60 tpi or stiffer sidewall tire would be better? 

Dual fast track 2.1s? Dual ikons? Dual aspens? 

Something that flys but has hard corner lugs. 



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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

solarplex said:


> I was just going to post on this haha.
> 
> Im finding my xr2 2.2 squirms in the hard corners. Also my trails are like packed clay you can ride cx bikes on. Just when i leave the province i could put the big volumes on for rocks and such.
> 
> ...


2.25 Aspen

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## bikeguy0 (Aug 5, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> 2.25 Aspen
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


+1 I've ran Ikon F and R for a number of years but I like the 2.25 Aspen better. Good grip and rolls faster in my opinion.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

I would not recommend the Michelin force xc. I haven’t ridden it, only the wild am and force am and judging by what Michelin and others say the force XC is mostly a lighter weight version of the force am. It’s not a bad tire it’s just there are better options. It’s not really xc rubber. 

The schwalbe combo is good, and the mezcal is good too (but heavier). Supposedly the new Vitoria rubber is supposed to be amazing (according to them) so that might be interesting. The barzo could be a good option if it’s on the looser side of things.


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## nzambec2 (Jan 2, 2018)

For Michigan XC trails (Lower Peninsula) hard pack under slightly loose/sandy, low amount rocks/roots to speak of, I'm sold on Schwalbe Rocket Ron 2.25 SpeedGrip Snakeskin. Fast, great traction, no worries. I'd love to try 2.25 Aspens and Rekon Race out, but I'll hold off until the Ron's get trashed. 

25mm internal 29er rim on Full Suspension Spec Epic, FWIW


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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

litany said:


> I would not recommend the Michelin force xc. I haven't ridden it, only the wild am and force am and judging by what Michelin and others say the force XC is mostly a lighter weight version of the force am. It's not a bad tire it's just there are better options. It's not really xc rubber.


In what way do you mean that it's not really xc rubber? Too slow? Too stiff carcass? I have the recent Michelin Wild Enduros on my enduro bike and they are great, but I am probably the only one riding Michelin tires on a bike in my region , so no experience with XC tires from them.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Too slow. It’s the same rubber as wild am. I’ve done rolldown tests and the wild am and force am we’re the same rolling resistance. Which is significantly more than mezcal, etc. it’s very similar to an aggressor for instance. 

For most of my XC situations (hardback, loose over hard) I think the faster combo is the lower rolling resistance one as the grip is less important and is good enough with my schwalbe.


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## pcro (Sep 1, 2013)

Any experience with 2.6" options? I have had a 2.6 Mezcal, which was pretty nice rolling and good cornering grip. Then the grip fell off a cliff at ~500mi, so want to try something different. Looking at xr2.

Edit:
My list of available 29x2.6 fast xc options:
Mezcal
Barzo
xr2
Fast Trak (though this is only a 2.4 apparently)
Ikon
Forekaster
Kenda Sabre Pro
Teravail Cumberland (xc fast?)

Wishlist for the future:
Aspen
Ardent Race
True 2.6 fast trak


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Try the forekasters! I bet you would absolutely love them.


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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

FJSnoozer said:


> Try the forekasters! I bet you would absolutely love them.


If you're telling me, then I have to tell you that the stock tires on my Oiz will be Forekaster 2.35 in the front and Ardent Race 2.2 in the rear and I will definitely ride these during spring, but I want faster tires for racing, because most of our races are not very technical.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Just ordered a pair of SWorks Fastrack 2.3. We'll see how they get along!


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

FJSnoozer said:


> 2.25 Aspen
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hard to find, found some 2.1s tho?

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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

solarplex said:


> Hard to find, found some 2.1s tho?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


29?

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...ng-tire-120tpi-dual-compound-exo-casing-black

Almost no bike shops ever carry the tires I run so I have to order online.


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## grawp (Apr 22, 2012)

Does anyone use Bontrager tyres? I’ve been using the xr1 for years and have also used the xr3. I find them to be very reliable and they seem to grip ok. I’ve also used Ralph’s a lot over the years and I’d say they have a touch more cornering grip but I’ve found mounting them tubeless to be hit and miss whereas Bontys always go up first time.


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## Dan-W (Nov 21, 2014)

Love Bontrager tyres.

In my Weenie days I wouldn't give them a look due to weight only but there are so few genuine light tyre options nowadays and all have gained weight so that is kind of irrelevant now.

XR1, XR2 and XR3 and both around 680g real weight in the 2.25. Any Maxxis XC tyre in EXO is going to be around that. By comparison a 2.0 Spec Renegade or 2.1 Ikon is around 100g less but both are a floppy mess of a tyre and I can't stand the thinner spec/ Maxxis sidewalls.

There is of course much more to a tyre than hanging them on a scale. The Bonty sidewalls are the perfect IMO. Loads of support and durability without being too thick and adding too much weight. As above, they have been the easiest tyre to install and set up tubeless IME too. Grip is excellent and they last ages too. No nonsense, dependable tyres.


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## newking (Nov 6, 2007)

I recently put a Tioga Fast 13 size 2.10 tire on my XC bike for a gravel ride. Was great on gravel and pavement. Forgot to take it off for my XC/trail rides and found that it handled very well out back and makes the bike feel much faster.

Tire was installed in rear only.

I know a lot of people are going to wider rims and bigger tires but I am now a big fan of a smaller, fast rolling, tire in the back. Was riding 2.35 Forekaster Front and rear and will use FK front and Tioga R for my XC set up.

these tires are like $30 on ebay or 2 for $55. Much less than other brands (if your on a budget)

I did have one burp the first ride and lost air so I resealed the bead on the rim and no issues since. They are 2.10 size / tubeless and around 680 grams

Tioga site:
Fast 13 - Tioga

Ebay site:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-or-2-Pak...hash=item363b4fb511:m:mmekvk79rRVOAd6sYSUD9hQ

I Like Maxxis and Bontrager tires as well. Running 2.6 Forekaster on my LT bike for a front tire. Running Bontrager XR2 on my singlespped.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

FJSnoozer said:


> 29?
> 
> https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...ng-tire-120tpi-dual-compound-exo-casing-black
> 
> Almost no bike shops ever carry the tires I run so I have to order online.


Got some 2.1s for $40 each cnd. 120tpi. They are 540g. Light as my 40mm panaracer gravelkings. Going to fly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Pinkbike has a pictorial of Kate Courtney's new Scott. It was set up with 2.25 Rekon Race tires on 30mm inner width wheels. I guess 30mm is the new standard for XC wheels?
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-check-kate-courtneys-scott-contessa-spark-rc.html


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I feel like tire size is pretty dependant on course and race type. If I were doing a shorter race in a place like parts of Texas where there is basically nothing but fast, flat singletrack then id be ok with 2.1-2.25 fast tires. On the flip side, ill be doing Mohican 100 on a rigid SS and will be running a bare minimum of 2.35s. The extra cushion and comfort from a bigger tire helps tremendously over that amount of miles (on a rigid bike anyways). 

Im glad there are so many fast rolling xc tires in bigger sizes these days.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

Race a pair of Maxxis Rekon Race 2.35s this weekend at the True Grit Epic. Really liked them for rocky desert racing. In the past at the TGE I have raced Ikon 2.2s. The RR 2.35s seemed to roll at least as fast, but had more cornering traction and a more comfortable ride for a longer race.


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## m3bas (Dec 24, 2011)

Has anyone got their hands on the new Vittoria tyres yet? Looks like the whole range is uodated


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

m3bas said:


> Has anyone got their hands on the new Vittoria tyres yet? Looks like the whole range is uodated
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://www.competitivecyclist.com/vittoria-mezcal-iii-g2.0-xcr-tire-29in

And they come in gumwall now!!!


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

jimPacNW said:


> I would add the Vittoria Mezcal to that list; fast rolling and very good grip and cornering confidence. I think you get a little bigger knobs along with the lower rolling resistance of a smaller knob tire. Downside is they're pretty avg or above avg weight.
> I'm super happy with those again this year, 2 races on them so far, - hole shot on pavement both races is my evidence for fast rolling.


Front and rear?


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## JamesT-XYZ (Oct 26, 2014)

Still a big Schwalbe fan. My race day setup is Racing Ralph 2.25 Addix Speed Snakeskin on the front, Thunder Burt 2.25 Addix Speed Snakeskin rear. I'm a BIG fan of the TB. Super fast rolling and better than expected cornering.

Currently running Maxxis Rekon Race 2.35 front and Maxxis Ikon 2.35 rear to try something different. I haven't spent much time on them yet, but so far, so good but i doubt my race day setup will change.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

westin said:


> Front and rear?


Vittoria Mezcal front and rear has worked for me until it gets really loose/sandy then I throw a Barzo up front. I'll probably be running the Barzos for when its loose or I'm racing somewhere new, and Mezcal for hardpack. That's been a pretty good combo for me last couple years. I'm in their test group for 2019 so I'll try their new Graphene 2.0 compounds once I'm through my current stock. The Terreno 2.25 looks interesting/scary for a rear option...

I briefly ran 2.2 Kenda Saber Pros and liked them, just slashed one strangely after a few rides. I'd try them again sometime, right now I've got one on the front of my Top Fuel with a 2.1 Thunder Burt on the back for a recent short track race. Talk about fast rolling...


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

csteven71 said:


> https://www.competitivecyclist.com/vittoria-mezcal-iii-g2.0-xcr-tire-29in
> 
> And they come in gumwall now!!!


Gumwall does not have TNT sidewall protection, if that matters.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

westin said:


> Gumwall does not have TNT sidewall protection, if that matters.


Yeah, they're going to have to expand some of the sizes and sidewall options. For example, I sometimes ride a lighter casing tire in the front and heavier reinforced casing in the rear, which would involve running a gumwall and anthracite wall in these new ones which is gonna look goofy. Same for 2.25 vs 2.35; they should visually match IMO.


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## Chris(NJ) (Mar 30, 2011)

I used Ardent Race all last year and really wasnt happy with them. Confidence just wasnt there. I think I want to go back to Ikons this year, although playing w/ the idea of a Forekaster up front and an Ikon out back. Maybe not super fast rolling, but hoping it ups the cornering ability. I felt like the Ardents were squirmy. I dunno.


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## Eric Marshall (Nov 28, 2012)

JamesT-XYZ said:


> Still a big Schwalbe fan. My race day setup is Racing Ralph 2.25 Addix Speed Snakeskin on the front, Thunder Burt 2.25 Addix Speed Snakeskin rear. I'm a BIG fan of the TB. Super fast rolling and better than expected cornering.
> Currently running Maxxis Rekon Race 2.35 front and Maxxis Ikon 2.35 rear to try something different. I haven't spent much time on them yet, but so far, so good but i doubt my race day setup will change.


I haven't ridden TBs in a few years now, but how do you compare the height of the center knobs between the TBs and the Rekon Races?


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## OttaCee (Jul 24, 2013)

Pending the race conditions:

Dry
F: Maxxis Ardent Race 2.35
R: Maxxis Aspen 2.25

Wet/Damp:
F: Maxxis Forekaster 2.35
R: Maxxis Ardent Race 2.35


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Re: No sidewall protection on the gumwalls. Yeah I noticed that after. That’s sad.


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## JamesT-XYZ (Oct 26, 2014)

Eric Marshall said:


> I haven't ridden TBs in a few years now, but how do you compare the height of the center knobs between the TBs and the Rekon Races?


The Rekon Race center knobs are comparable to the Racing Ralph in height, where as the TB is closer to a true racing slick, very low profile center and transition knobs. In hero dirt conditions it's a stupid fast tire.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Chris(NJ) said:


> I used Ardent Race all last year and really wasnt happy with them. Confidence just wasnt there. I think I want to go back to Ikons this year, although playing w/ the idea of a Forekaster up front and an Ikon out back. Maybe not super fast rolling, but hoping it ups the cornering ability. I felt like the Ardents were squirmy. I dunno.


Same here. The only reason I ever run an Ardent Race is because it rolls fast and the EXO holds up really well on my local trails. Its an awful tire as far as grip though, same goes for the regular Ardent imo. I was happy running Barzo/Mezcal until my local trails absolutely destroyed a Mezcal last season. Im still convinced they did something to the TNT to make it less hardy...

Its a crapshoot for me locally either way. EXO holds up well here but I'm honestly not a huge fan of Maxxis. Even on my big bike, people go crazy for the Minions and I refuse to run the things... I am forever switching out tires looking for that magic bullet.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Adding on to my above statement, has anyone ran a Vittoria Peyote? It comes in the side I prefer (2.35) with the TnT sidewall. Looks like a great tire, I'm curious why I hear so much about the Mezcal and not this? Maybe because the Mezcal is more versatile (mixed conditions vs dry hardpack/chunky terrain on the Peyote)?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Chris(NJ) said:


> I used Ardent Race all last year and really wasnt happy with them. Confidence just wasnt there. I think I want to go back to Ikons this year, although playing w/ the idea of a Forekaster up front and an Ikon out back. Maybe not super fast rolling, but hoping it ups the cornering ability. I felt like the Ardents were squirmy. I dunno.


I too have never loved the Ardent Race, particularly on the front. I think it is best suited as rear tire in the hot summer months. I think it works decent, for an XC tire, in the loose and it seems to be quite durable.

As a grippier XC front tire the forecaster is really good, a bit of rolling penalty but not a lot of rolling resistance from a front tire.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

LMN said:


> I too have never loved the Ardent Race, particularly on the front. I think it is best suited as rear tire in the hot summer months. I think it works decent, for an XC tire, in the loose and it seems to be quite durable.
> 
> As a grippier XC front tire the forecaster is really good, a bit of rolling penalty but not a lot of rolling resistance from a front tire.


What do you like as a rear for an aggressive XC tire below 2.4 with EXO?


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## TTUB (Nov 9, 2010)

Panasonic Driver Pro 
Under 600 grams without being too fragile.
The tread is super FAST, but still feels confident.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

TTUB said:


> Panasonic Driver Pro
> Under 600 grams without being too fragile.
> The tread is super FAST, but still feels confident.


Panaracer? What size to get under 600?


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## Walt Disney's Frozen Head (Jan 9, 2008)

westin said:


> What do you like as a rear for an aggressive XC tire below 2.4 with EXO?


when you say "Aggressive XC tire" to you mean burly/knobby or the exact opposite?


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Walt Disney's Frozen Head said:


> when you say "Aggressive XC tire" to you mean burly/knobby or the exact opposite?


Allow me poetic license, if you will: team manager or coach secretly plots 2 or 3 "A Races" without telling you where they were, and you can only mount one tire (but swap it out for a fresh one). All you know about the races is: one is smooth non technical old school XC with lots of climbing, one is a 40 miler in the summer where it's dry/loose over hard with long fast cornering descents, and the last race is a 100 miler with lots of rocks or roots and a smattering of creek crossings....what rear tire would you pick?

All 3 races hold equal points toward the championship.


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## Eric Marshall (Nov 28, 2012)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Adding on to my above statement, has anyone ran a Vittoria Peyote? It comes in the side I prefer (2.35) with the TnT sidewall. Looks like a great tire, I'm curious why I hear so much about the Mezcal and not this? Maybe because the Mezcal is more versatile (mixed conditions vs dry hardpack/chunky terrain on the Peyote)?


I just received a set of 2.35 Peyotes, but haven't installed them yet. I was wondering the same thing you were, why is the Mezcal mentioned so often? I rode 2.35 Mezcals front and rear last year, for the first time, and wasn't crazy about the rear traction. I've been visiting the Vittoria website recently looking to see if their Agarro prototype tire is going to make it to production, and that's where I saw the Peyote for the first time. Doing some Internet searching, I found out the Peyote is not a new tire. To me, the Peyote has a much more sensible thread pattern for general use, which is why I bought 'em. Time will tell...


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## fitzhenry (Feb 14, 2017)

LMN said:


> I too have never loved the Ardent Race, particularly on the front. I think it is best suited as rear tire in the hot summer months. I think it works decent, for an XC tire, in the loose and it seems to be quite durable.
> 
> As a grippier XC front tire the forecaster is really good, a bit of rolling penalty but not a lot of rolling resistance from a front tire.


Agree on the Forekaster. Had one come on my Element last year 2.35 got a good 3k miles out of that tire with zero cuts or issues. Got a Rekon on front now though.

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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

fitzhenry said:


> Agree on the Forekaster. Had one come on my Element last year 2.35 got a good 3k miles out of that tire with zero cuts or issues. Got a Rekon on front now though.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How is the Rekon so far? Can you compare it?


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## TTUB (Nov 9, 2010)

westin said:


> Panaracer? What size to get under 600?


29 x 2.2


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## Walt Disney's Frozen Head (Jan 9, 2008)

westin said:


> Allow me poetic license, if you will: team manager or coach secretly plots 2 or 3 "A Races" without telling you where they were, and you can only mount one tire (but swap it out for a fresh one). All you know about the races is: one is smooth non technical old school XC with lots of climbing, one is a 40 miler in the summer where it's dry/loose over hard with long fast cornering descents, and the last race is a 100 miler with lots of rocks or roots and a smattering of creek crossings....what rear tire would you pick?
> 
> All 3 races hold equal points toward the championship.


gotcha, I've been really happy w/ the Forekaster up front Aspen (allegedly available soon in 29x2.35 exo) in the back. I won't run an aspen if I suspect lots of sharp tread slicing rocks but that's based more on "fear" than experience.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Just got my Mezcal Graphene version 2.0 in, 29x2.25 weighs in at 696-700g each. Old Mezcal TNT g+ 2.25 is 760g on my scale so that's a decent saving. Sidewalls didn't feel noticably more skimpy, still far more substantial than Sworks/schwalbes etc. I'll try to mount them up this weekend and see how they shake out.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

pinkpowa said:


> Just got my Mezcal Graphene version 2.0 in, 29x2.25 weighs in at 696-700g each. Old Mezcal TNT g+ 2.25 is 760g on my scale so that's a decent saving. Sidewalls didn't feel noticably more skimpy, still far more substantial than Sworks/schwalbes etc. I'll try to mount them up this weekend and see how they shake out.
> View attachment 1242146
> 
> View attachment 1242147


TNT or TLR?

Edit: the pics didn't show up until I posted. Weird. Skinwall only available in TLR, right?

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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Yeah XC Race is supposed to be non reinforced, XC Trail is the reinforced version. XC Race sidewalls feel about as thick and stiff as the old TNT ones to me, we'll see how they work. I get plenty of sharp coral rock down here in South Florida so that'll be a test.


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## m3bas (Dec 24, 2011)

Eric Marshall said:


> I just received a set of 2.35 Peyotes, but haven't installed them yet. I was wondering the same thing you were, why is the Mezcal mentioned so often? I rode 2.35 Mezcals front and rear last year, for the first time, and wasn't crazy about the rear traction. I've been visiting the Vittoria website recently looking to see if their Agarro prototype tire is going to make it to production, and that's where I saw the Peyote for the first time. Doing some Internet searching, I found out the Peyote is not a new tire. To me, the Peyote has a much more sensible thread pattern for general use, which is why I bought 'em. Time will tell...


I don't think the Peyote had the newer Graphene compound previously? Was thinking similar when I was looking them up, now its updated looks a good option. Keen to hear feedback


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## Chris(NJ) (Mar 30, 2011)

pinkpowa said:


> Yeah XC Race is supposed to be non reinforced, XC Trail is the reinforced version. XC Race sidewalls feel about as thick and stiff as the old TNT ones to me, we'll see how they work. I get plenty of sharp coral rock down here in South Florida so that'll be a test.


Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the tire. I just ordered ikons again, but may try these mezcals out if the reviews come back positive. Always fun to try new tires out


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Chris(NJ) said:


> Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the tire. I just ordered ikons again, but may try these mezcals out if the reviews come back positive. Always fun to try new tires out


Ikons are probably my least favorite tire of all time. Vague casing, slow rolling, square profile on even skinny rims, unpredictable break away. I went from Ikons to renegades and considered it an upgrade in every way (and running renegades at my skill/weight is considered suicide by many).

I've run the Mezcal before over the last 2 years and really liked them, especially as a rear. This new version is just a casing and compound upgrade supposedly, tread is unchanged to the naked eye. Mezcal up front is great in hardpack conditions, but as soon as it got loose/muddy/sandy they would wash on me. Still miles better than Ikons, but I felt like the knobs were a little too tight maybe? Throw a Barzo up front (aka conti xking clone) and ready to party.

So yeah, I'm interested to see how these new ones work out, having run them in the past and liked them for certain conditions. I'll be interest to see if their useful range expands more into the loose/sandy/marbles/muddy conditions where I was grabbing a more open tread before. Plus the skinwall looks dope, right?


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

pinkpowa said:


> Ikons are probably my least favorite tire of all time. Vague casing, slow rolling, square profile on even skinny rims, unpredictable break away. I went from Ikons to renegades and considered it an upgrade in every way (and running renegades at my skill/weight is considered suicide by many).
> 
> I've run the Mezcal before over the last 2 years and really liked them, especially as a rear. This new version is just a casing and compound upgrade supposedly, tread is unchanged to the naked eye. Mezcal up front is great in hardpack conditions, but as soon as it got loose/muddy/sandy they would wash on me. Still miles better than Ikons, but I felt like the knobs were a little too tight maybe? Throw a Barzo up front (aka conti xking clone) and ready to party.
> 
> So yeah, I'm interested to see how these new ones work out, having run them in the past and liked them for certain conditions. I'll be interest to see if their useful range expands more into the loose/sandy/marbles/muddy conditions where I was grabbing a more open tread before. Plus the skinwall looks dope, right?


We all have different opinions on tires, but I love the Ikons. I feel the exact opposite of how you describe the Ikons. If you can run renegades you obviously have bike handling skills. Maybe it's the difference in soil types or size of the tire. I like renegades too. I use those for our smooth courses.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

What about Rekons 2,25 (not race version) front and rear? Is rekon faster than Ikon?


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Put on a pair of SWorks Fastrak 2.3's. I only weighed one, it was 590g! Should have dropped roughly a pound compared to the Ground Control I had one. 

Can't give a fair report on the tires. The Bonelli course is really hard packed. No loose over anything. I do think I had too much pressure, but that's my fault and not the tire.


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

Does anyone know if the variation in width between Vittoria tire models has changed?

I have a Barzo and Mezcal, both 2.25, currently paired as a Front/Rear, respectively. The Barzo measures narrower than the Mezcal. It messes with my head. I want my front tire to be wider.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Skarhead said:


> What about Rekons 2,25 (not race version) front and rear? Is rekon faster than Ikon?


This will be completely dependent upon rider and course.

This is completely immeasurable.

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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

G-Choro said:


> Does anyone know if the variation in width between Vittoria tire models has changed?
> 
> I have a Barzo and Mezcal, both 2.25, currently paired as a Front/Rear, respectively. The Barzo measures narrower than the Mezcal. It messes with my head. I want my front tire to be wider.


Yes, but the "narrower" Barzo will still provide better turning grip than the "wider" Mezcal. The reason some run a wider front is for better turning grip and you already have that due to the knob design.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

So where do the Rocket Rons fall nowadays?

I have them on my 10y/o 27.5 because they were light (though 80 grams over the claimed weight) with what looked to be a decent tread. Is there anything else I should be looking at for Socal conditions? I want fast rolling but also want to give her confidence as she gets faster and stronger. I've seen some kids on thunder burts but not sure about them.

Kenda is a sponsor of the Ca. MTB series that we're racing now, as well as Over the Hump that we do in summer, anything from them?


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

MXIV424 said:


> So where do the Rocket Rons fall nowadays?
> 
> I have them on my 10y/o 27.5 because they were light (though 80 grams over the claimed weight) with what looked to be a decent tread. Is there anything else I should be looking at for Socal conditions? I want fast rolling but also want to give her confidence as she gets faster and stronger. I've seen some kids on thunder burts but not sure about them.
> 
> Kenda is a sponsor of the Ca. MTB series that we're racing now, as well as Over the Hump that we do in summer, anything from them?


I just got a thunderburt rear and RR front, I was gonna get the Rocket Ron time ago but couldn't find any and suddenly found some ultra cheap thunderburts, If I like it might as well stock them up for the rear.

I was using race king rear and RR front, wanted to try the rocket ron front.


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

I’m going to give rocket rons a try for races this year. Checks all boxes-light (even with snakeskin), fast rolling, decent knobs, decent volume. I know they are not the longest lasting but that’s okay. We’ll see


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

MXIV424 said:


> Kenda is a sponsor of the Ca. MTB series that we're racing now, as well as Over the Hump that we do in summer, anything from them?


I ran the Saber Pro SCT 2.2 for a bit, just under 600g and more grip than you'd expect looking at them. Actually got one on the front of the bike now to save some weight at a Short Track race a few weeks back, did good loose over hard and spins up fast. Don't have a ton of miles on em but look like a good hardpack option.


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## hellion (Jan 17, 2018)

I started off last year using 2.35 Mezcals, and liked their volume, weight and they roll fast. Traction is good in the dry but terrible on wet rocks and roots. So, I switched to the Barzo front when they released the 2.35 and it is better in the wet but still not great compared to an older pair of Black Chili Contis I had. I'm starting off this year with the Barzo front and rear, but I'm considering trying the Conti Mountain King again, but reviews of it lately seem pretty sparse.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Starting the season off with a 2.25 Recon Race on the front and a 2.25 Aspen on the rear. Running 1 1/2 inserts in both.


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

LMN said:


> Starting the season off with a 2.25 Recon Race on the front and a 2.25 Aspen on the rear. Running 1 1/2 inserts in both.


Okay that's interesting. I have both tires. Maxxis bills the Recon Race as a rear only tire unless it's short track. But the Recon Race clearly has bigger side knobs than the Aspen. I've been running the Aspen as a rear tire with noddle inserts and have been very pleased.

How's the Recon Race feel as a front tire?

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## k/dv (Jun 2, 2010)

Just wrapped a (new) Forekaster 2.35 to my front hoop and an (slighlty used) Ikon 2.35 to the rear. Wow the Ikon is much more girthy than the FK. The FK looks very thin in comparison. 

Perhaps the FK needs a few rides to open up? Dunno...


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

k/dv said:


> Just wrapped a (new) Forekaster 2.35 to my front hoop and an (slighlty used) Ikon 2.35 to the rear. Wow the Ikon is much more girthy than the FK. The FK looks very thin in comparison.
> 
> Perhaps the FK needs a few rides to open up? Dunno...


Im currently running a Forekaster front / Ardent Race rear and had the same thought. They're both 2.35 but the Forekaster looks a bit more scrawny than the Ardent... I have come to the conclusion that the very sparse knobs on the Forekaster just make it look funny, the width is probably very similar if you actually measured it.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

The Forekaster gets its 2.35” from the shoulder knobs, I gather. The big Ikon is all casing.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

tgoods said:


> Okay that's interesting. I have both tires. Maxxis bills the Recon Race as a rear only tire unless it's short track. But the Recon Race clearly has bigger side knobs than the Aspen. I've been running the Aspen as a rear tire with noddle inserts and have been very pleased.
> 
> How's the Recon Race feel as a front tire?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have the same question since Maxxis originally billed the Rekon Race as a great rear tire and it's fastest XC tire. But I noticed in some pictorials of Kate Courtney's new Scott Scale that she also had a Rekon Race on the front.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Just looking at them the Aspen looks like it'll roll faster than a Rekon Race. The setup LMN is running is what looks interesting to me from the current Maxxis catalogue. Having run Ardent/Ikon before I know I don't get along with those, but these new casing & tread patterns look better on the workbench to me. I'll be interested to see how he gets along with em.


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## bikeguy0 (Aug 5, 2007)

LMN said:


> Starting the season off with a 2.25 Recon Race on the front and a 2.25 Aspen on the rear. Running 1 1/2 inserts in both.


Hey LMN what pressure are u running with that setup?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Chris(NJ) (Mar 30, 2011)

Fwiw, I have a couple of Ardent Race in 29x2.2 that I'm selling. 15ea/25 for both. Plenty of life left. Good chance for someone to try them out if they're interested but unsure about them.


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## Evgeny_D (Apr 12, 2014)

Has anybody tried Rekon vs Racing Ray? Want to pair as a front tire to the rear Rekon Race.


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## mjj1066 (Sep 6, 2010)

I have a race coming up in two weeks that is likely to be very muddy - both soupy loose and heavy sticky mud. Lots of steep up and down, but nothing too technical in terms of rocks and roots, plus a big road climb to start to get to the singletrack. I am curious what tires people would suggest for these conditions. Thanks.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

mjj1066 said:


> I have a race coming up in two weeks that is likely to be very muddy - both soupy loose and heavy sticky mud. Lots of steep up and down, but nothing too technical in terms of rocks and roots, plus a big road climb to start to get to the singletrack. I am curious what tires people would suggest for these conditions. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd run a Barzo or X King personally.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

mjj1066 said:


> I have a race coming up in two weeks that is likely to be very muddy - both soupy loose and heavy sticky mud. Lots of steep up and down, but nothing too technical in terms of rocks and roots, plus a big road climb to start to get to the singletrack. I am curious what tires people would suggest for these conditions. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's been very damp here the last couple weeks, and by some miracle the trails are open even though it's pretty soft. I have been running a Forekaster on the front and it's done great.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Sidewalk said:


> Put on a pair of SWorks Fastrak 2.3's. I only weighed one, it was 590g! Should have dropped roughly a pound compared to the Ground Control I had one.
> 
> Can't give a fair report on the tires. The Bonelli course is really hard packed. No loose over anything. I do think I had too much pressure, but that's my fault and not the tire.


Four races in, tires work GREAT in perfect conditions. Don't know about bad conditions yet, that will have to wait a while I guess.


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## MNSnoPro (Mar 1, 2016)

There were rumors a while back about an Aspen in 29 x 2.35" form. Does anyone have any more info on this?


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

My Racing Ralph/Ray combo just showed up. I picked these up from BikeDiscount.de when ordering some XTR bits; I always like to throw a Schwalbe tire or two in the cart as they're under $40.

Haven't ridden trails yet, but they look promising. Both within 20g of advertised weight of 625g. Interestingly while both list at 2.25", the front measures 2.3 and the rear 2.2 on 25mm ID rims. This seems intentional, and I like it as I prefer a slightly fatter front tire. I'd swear the rear has a slightly thicker casing (also a good thing) but maybe it's just different rubber.


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## newking (Nov 6, 2007)

Those look good I just ordered a pair up. 
Racing Ray on front (blue stripe) 29x2.25 evo/tle snakeskin. Racing Ralph on rear (red stripe) 29x2.25 evo/tle snakeskin

The blue is speed/grip and the red is just speed.
Can't wait to try!



DrewBird said:


> View attachment 1244050
> View attachment 1244051
> 
> 
> ...


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

What is the verdict on Schwalbe holding up in rocky terrain? When the plus bike craze first hit, I saw people destroying Nobby Nic's left and right so I kind of wrote Schwalbe off. I see a lot of guys running them on their race bikes though, so I am curious how their sidewalls hold up on the rest of their tires? 

I generally stick with EXO and TNT because I know they hold up around my local terrain. Grid does ok also. I have been trying to branch out but fear of killing sidewalls on expensive tires has been holding me back. The sharp limestone in these parts make tire experimenting a little more difficult.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> What is the verdict on Schwalbe holding up in rocky terrain? When the plus bike craze first hit, I saw people destroying Nobby Nic's left and right so I kind of wrote Schwalbe off. I see a lot of guys running them on their race bikes though, so I am curious how their sidewalls hold up on the rest of their tires?
> 
> I generally stick with EXO and TNT because I know they hold up around my local terrain. Grid does ok also. I have been trying to branch out but fear of killing sidewalls on expensive tires has been holding me back. The sharp limestone in these parts make tire experimenting a little more difficult.


Race tires are not so good. And your number is up at any moment. They work until the don't. Also compound doesn't last if your rocks are grippy.

Now, MM, HD and NoNo:

My HDs are old reliable. Nothing phases them. I've had 4 as fronts.

MM does what it's supposed to.

My first several batches of NoNo would see the side knobs ripped clear off the threads. Sometimes on the first race, but my wife loved them so we kept a getting them from bike-discount.de . My last 6 have been extremely reliable and you can ride them into the ground. I don't really like the 2.25 because it's super small. The tread is almost identical spacing as the 2.35, but the casing is massive compared to the 2.25. Weight is all over the map. I had a batch where the 2.25s were all 750g and the 2.35s were all 775.

This last order I had a 685, 705 2.25 and got a 735 and two 750 2.35s. I'm on about my 10th Addix NoNo. I mix in with Maxxis Exo tires of course, so I am not a Schwalbe fanboy. I'm always testing combos and giving them many miles of love on different conditions.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

G-Choro said:


> I have a Barzo and Mezcal, both 2.25, currently paired as a Front/Rear, respectively. The Barzo measures narrower than the Mezcal. It messes with my head. I want my front tire to be wider.


Can you measure the width of the 2.25" Barzo for me? The rear tire clearance is rather tight on my bike and I'm wondering if I can squeeze a 2.25" in there. Currently have a 2.1" Mezcal in there but I'm looking to get something a bit bigger & knobbier.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

FJSnoozer said:


> Race tires are not so good. And your number is up at any moment. They work until the don't. Also compound doesn't last if your rocks are grippy.
> 
> Now, MM, HD and NoNo:
> 
> ...


Yea I probably won't waste my time if this is the case. I hate dealing with tire issues trail side, especially in a race setting.

I also noticed that people running the Nobby Nics were ripping entire knobs off. I thought that was a fluke but it seems to be a common thing.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Yea I probably won't waste my time if this is the case. I hate dealing with tire issues trail side, especially in a race setting.
> 
> I also noticed that people running the Nobby Nics were ripping entire knobs off. I thought that was a fluke but it seems to be a common thing.


It was common with the first addix but seems to have stopped. I would buy NoNo with confidence. The 2.35 is probably my favorite all purpose front tire.

When those knobs came off, the tire was still fine. They would just flap like a busted blister.

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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Yea I probably won't waste my time if this is the case. I hate dealing with tire issues trail side, especially in a race setting.
> 
> I also noticed that people running the Nobby Nics were ripping entire knobs off. I thought that was a fluke but it seems to be a common thing.


Older Vertstar/Trailstar/Pacestar Schwalbes were notorious for fast wear and losing whole knobs. In my experience the newer Addix rubbers (colored stripes on the tread) have been much much better.

In terms of casings, I think the Snakeskin casing (which is claimed to be improved recently) is not unlike Maxxis's Exo. Schwalbe now has an Apex option on some tires, I have a Mary 2.6 with Apex and it seems like a nice intermediate, tougher than Snakeskin/exo but not full 2-ply. Interestingly Maxxis has recently introduced "Exo+" which I guess is their version of an intermediate option.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

Raced with the new ralph speed on the rear this past weekend. I had a puncture on the rear and my partner had a puncture in her rear the next day.

The handling was great though. They are nice and fast









Evolution Training Cycles


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## Walt Disney's Frozen Head (Jan 9, 2008)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I also noticed that people running the Nobby Nics were ripping entire knobs off. I thought that was a fluke but it seems to be a common thing.


Hence the nickname (k)Nobless Nics


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

rupps5 said:


> Raced with the new ralph speed on the rear this past weekend. I had a puncture on the rear and my partner had a puncture in her rear the next day.


Not exactly the ringing endorsement I was looking for!

Is your terrain rocky or otherwise hard on tires? Are punctures common for you in race conditions? What pressure were you running?


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

conditions at both races were hard soil with loose rock (ohio and WV).

I just checked out her tire for what happened and she has a puncture in a tread void. Stans sealed the hole but she finished on 8psi and was riding that for about 2 hours.

My puncture is also in a tread void that took 2 plugs. 

I hit a large loose rock, not sure what caused hers but I am guessing the same. 

We normally run mezcal's but the schwalabes were on the bikes from the factory and both were snake skin. 

So it is back to Vittoria and Maxxis for us


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks for the info. She must be light, 8psi for me would have me on the rim! Do you think these were pinch flats? Do you generally set up tires on the low end of the PSI range? 

Sorry for all the questions, just wondering if these are going to be a total liability and not worth bothering with.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

Mine may have been a pinch flat, i hit the rock hard. I run 22psi rear on an enve 25mm internal rim and weigh 140.

She runs 20psi and weighs 125. 

Evolution Training Cycles


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Haven't run Schwalbes since prior to the new Addix compound due to reliability issues. Looks like those issues remain in place. Seen too many Schwalbe DNF's to trust them. I've got some NIB Schwalbes from swag/prize packs that I'm using up on the training bike and they're great in many ways, I just don't trust em.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

hate to say it because I really love the way Schwalbe tires handle. But I cannot trust their reliability either at least on a rear tire. They seem fine on the front though

Evolution Training Cycles


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

All good info, thanks. I have a local short-track series that's basically non-rocky, I may use 'em for that. Sounds like something burlier would be advisable for real mountain riding.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

DrewBird said:


> All good info, thanks. I have a local short-track series that's basically non-rocky, I may use 'em for that. Sounds like something burlier would be advisable for real mountain riding.


Yup, there's a Thunder Burt Snakeskin on my bike from a local ST race, perfect application since I'm not chasing points etc. Knobs are about to peel off the edge though...


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

pinkpowa said:


> Yup, there's a Thunder Burt Snakeskin on my bike from a local ST race, perfect application since I'm not chasing points etc. Knobs are about to peel off the edge though...


My thunderburt snakeskin had a pretty big puncture on the tread on the first ride(ouch), sealant sealed it for the ride, but pretty much 8oz were "used".

Patched it myself and I have not suffered any more punctures I even used it without sealant on one ride and held air perfectly fine.

Still, while I love how fast and light it is I don't think it is very reliable. In my experience a Racing ralph seems to be twice as reliable.

I think if you don't ride on rocky terrain you can't go wrong with it, rocks destroy tires and where I ride there are plenty of rocks


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

You have all successfully talked me out of Schwalbe.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

Picked up some recons to try for rear tires and an aspen for when it gets dry an fast.









Evolution Training Cycles


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

I've been torn between an Ardent Race and Rekon for a rear tire during early season (i.e. still some wet). I think the Rekon may actually roll faster. 

Think I'll use the Rekon Race once it gets dry.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

rupps5 said:


> Picked up some recons to try for rear tires and an aspen for when it gets dry an fast.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you using as a front tire?


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

rupps5 said:


> hate to say it because I really love the way Schwalbe tires handle. But I cannot trust their reliability either at least on a rear tire. They seem fine on the front though
> 
> Evolution Training Cycles


Got out for a quick 20 miles on the Racing Ray/Ralph combo this evening. After the talk of sub-par casing strength, I'm sorry to say that I freaking loved them. Better in both rolling and cornering than any Maxxis combo I've tried.

I'll probably use these for training rides and see if I can kill 'em, and they seem like great short track racers at the very least.

I raised my pressure a couple PSI from my usual. I think the tall, gummy shoulder knobs hook up well even at higher casing pressures, so hoping this will keep me flat free. I guess we'll see...


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

Yep drewbird i agree they handle impressively.

Next race is pisgah stage race for me which is a little more chunky so the recon will be the rear tire on both bikes. The fs will get a foercaster front and the hardtail will stay with the new ray on front

Evolution Training Cycles


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

DrewBird said:


> I've been torn between an Ardent Race and Rekon for a rear tire during early season (i.e. still some wet). I think the Rekon may actually roll faster.
> 
> Think I'll use the Rekon Race once it gets dry.


Its been pretty damp here and I have been using an Ardent Race. It's god awful.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Its been pretty damp here and I have been using an Ardent Race. It's god awful.


I have the same experience with the ardent race. Any dampness and its no good. If its wet, forget about it. It also rolls a little more slowly than its peers.

Evolution Training Cycles


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> You have all successfully talked me out of Schwalbe.


They're great race day tires. They grip very well, roll well, and wear super fast. They're not your everyday training tires that you can still race on. If you ever decide to get them don't try any without snakeskin. I cut a sidewall on a gravel road, no joke.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Rod said:


> They're great race day tires. They grip very well, roll well, and wear super fast. They're not your everyday training tires that you can still race on. If you ever decide to get them don't try any without snakeskin. I cut a sidewall on a gravel road, no joke.


Yup, this.

I'd run Schwalbes if they sent me a new set every race. Since I still pay for my tires I'll stick to other brands. I looked at the Thunder Burt sitting on my bike right now, corrner knobs are starting to peel and middle knobs are approaching holographic status. Maybe 500 training miles on em (which is actually a record for me and Schwalbes).


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

pinkpowa said:


> Yup, this.
> 
> I'd run Schwalbes if they sent me a new set every race. Since I still pay for my tires I'll stick to other brands. I looked at the Thunder Burt sitting on my bike right now, corrner knobs are starting to peel and middle knobs are approaching holographic status. Maybe 500 training miles on em (which is actually a record for me and Schwalbes).


To be fair the TB has near-holographic center knobs when brand new...

I've had much better luck with the Addix compounds on trail/AM tires. The older Trailstar-type compounds were awful, I swear I wore out a pair of Magic Marys in a weekend of gravity riding. But the newer Addix has been much better for me so far. We'll see how the Ray/Ralph combo wears.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

pinkpowa said:


> Yup, this.
> 
> I'd run Schwalbes if they sent me a new set every race. Since I still pay for my tires I'll stick to other brands. I looked at the Thunder Burt sitting on my bike right now, corrner knobs are starting to peel and middle knobs are approaching holographic status. Maybe 500 training miles on em (which is actually a record for me and Schwalbes).


Exactly, i get about 300 out of my snakeskin raplh on the rear. Like you, i dont get them for free so i need something that is durable, gripping, and longer lasting.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## splitendz (Nov 13, 2015)

DrewBird said:


> To be fair the TB has near-holographic center knobs when brand new...
> 
> I've had much better luck with the Addix compounds on trail/AM tires. The older Trailstar-type compounds were awful, I swear I wore out a pair of Magic Marys in a weekend of gravity riding. But the newer Addix has been much better for me so far. We'll see how the Ray/Ralph combo wears.


Agree 100% with your posts about the Ray/Ralph. Simply the best combo I've tried. Compared to snakeskins, I find the new addix compound far superior. I've heard a few pops on the ray/ralph combo where I was ready to get off and start slinging tools, but &#8230; not a single puncture yet. They are tough. For the weight, I don't think this combo can be beat.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

splitendz said:


> Compared to snakeskins, I find the new addix compound far superior.


I've only run the snakeskins though I do have an Addix Ralph to throw on the training bike next. I'm interested to see if/how they've improved with this new red/blue/green/purple striped compound, just not interested enough to shell out any (more) money.


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

pinkpowa said:


> I've only run the snakeskins though I do have an Addix Ralph to throw on the training bike next. I'm interested to see if/how they've improved with this new red/blue/green/purple striped compound, just not interested enough to shell out any (more) money.


For clarity I'll mention that "Snakeskin" is the puncture protection stuff in the casing (Exo/TNT equivalent), Addix is the rubber. Schwalbe has been using "snakeskin" as their light casing reinforcement for years, though the claim to have recently improved it. Addix rubber replaces the old Trailstar/Pacestar compounds, and is identifiable as the tires with a blue or red stripe down the tread.

My experience with old non-Addix tires, (mainly Trailstar rubber w Snakeskin casing) was that they wore quickly and punctured pretty easily.

I'm now trying the Addix/Snakeskin Ray/Ralph combo, and love the handling. We'll see how they hold up in terms of both punctures and tread wear. I'm no whippet at 6'3" & ~190lbs, but hoping appropriate pressure and the fact they're on a FS bike (Sniper XC) will keep them intact.

I've never tried a non-Snakeskin Schwalbe tire of any kind. Given how thin the Snakeskin casing is I assume those would just pop like balloons at first contact with loamy soil.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

splitendz said:


> Agree 100% with your posts about the Ray/Ralph. Simply the best combo I've tried. Compared to snakeskins, I find the new addix compound far superior. I've heard a few pops on the ray/ralph combo where I was ready to get off and start slinging tools, but &#8230; not a single puncture yet. They are tough. For the weight, I don't think this combo can be beat.


Ill have to try the new compound then. Thanks for the update. That sounds promising.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

pinkpowa said:


> Haven't run Schwalbes since prior to the new Addix compound due to reliability issues. Looks like those issues remain in place. Seen too many Schwalbe DNF's to trust them. I've got some NIB Schwalbes from swag/prize packs that I'm using up on the training bike and they're great in many ways, I just don't trust em.


+1 on that. Love the way they feel, way too many punctures. Cost me dearly in a handful of races.


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

Any recommendation for super technical East Coast endurance racing on a hardtail?Preferably Maxxis. I'm thinking Ikon 2.35 front and rear but I'm tempted to try the Aspen or Rekon Race in the rear.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Bluebeat007 said:


> Any recommendation for super technical East Coast endurance racing on a hardtail?Preferably Maxxis. I'm thinking Ikon 2.35 front and rear but I'm tempted to try the Aspen or Rekon Race in the rear.


If the surface isn't too loose then that'll work well.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I decided to experiment a little before the first race of the season. I am on a rigid SS this year and was looking for some extra cushion in my tires without sacrificing too much in speed. Being the Vittoria fanboy that I am, I pulled the trigger on 2 of the 29x2.6 Mezcals with the XC-Trail casing. Hopefully these feel as fast as the 2.35 Mezcals I ran before, and the new XC-Trail casing holds up to the sharp limestone where I am at.


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

I've been running a 29X2.6 Rekon up front with a 2.6 Ikon in the rear for the last mi th and it's been a solid set up. I'm going to lighten the load for the first race of the season though.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Geoff Kabush raced, and won, the 2019 Moab Rocks Stage race on Rekon Race front and rear. He was running them on Crest CB7 rims w/ 23mm internals at 20.5 - 22.5 psi. Probably not a great choice for everywhere but obviously worked fine for those conditions.


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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

Andy13 said:


> Geoff Kabush raced, and won, the 2019 Moab Rocks Stage race on Rekon Race front and rear. He was running them on Crest CB7 rims w/ 23mm internals at 20.5 - 22.5 psi. Probably not a great choice for everywhere but obviously worked fine for those conditions.


In an article on Pinkbike he said that he chose the tires because in Moab you don't need knobby tires, you just need good compound, so he chose 2.35 Rekon Race front and rear, because it is a very fast tire and has a big volume in 2.35.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

I decided my worn down XR2s needed replacing two days before my season opener. I had a like new Ikon 2.2 EXO for the rear. I really wanted to try a Rekon 2.25 front but the only XC tire I could find in stock locally was another Ikon 2.2 EXO, it should be fun to see how this setup does on the buff trails I'm racing this weekend, it's been a few years since I ran them front and rear. I've got a Rekon/Aspen 2.25 setup on the way to try later this summer.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

csteven71 said:


> I decided my worn down XR2s needed replacing two days before my season opener. I had a like new Ikon 2.2 EXO for the rear. I really wanted to try a Rekon 2.25 front but the only XC tire I could find in stock locally was another Ikon 2.2 EXO, it should be fun to see how this setup does on the buff trails I'm racing this weekend, it's been a few years since I ran them front and rear. I've got a Rekon/Aspen 2.25 setup on the way to try later this summer.


I like that setup. Ive done almost all of my training miles this yesr on it. They will drift some in leaf litter but theyre very predictable.

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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

My Vittoria fanboi credentials are well documented here, but if anybody likes Bontrager they're currently on sale for ~20% off. The XR3 just got a redesign and looks like a good front tire option to me:
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...m-issue-tlr-mtb-tire/p/27917/?colorCode=black


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

rupps5 said:


> I have the same experience with the ardent race. Any dampness and its no good. If its wet, forget about it. It also rolls a little more slowly than its peers.
> 
> Evolution Training Cycles


for something different this year on my hardtail I put an Ardent 2.4 front, and Ardent Race 2.35 rear, I use the hardtail when it's wet. A couple of weeks ago we had a snowy/muddy race, I don't recall hating that combo, but I did not feel very confident so maybe it was the tires and not just the nasty trail conditions. It looks like it will be wet for tomorrows race (final race of the early season series), but the course has a lot of small round rock/gravel/sand (glacial till type dirt iirc) and drains exceptionally well, so I should be ok. 
Vittoria seems to be working with a lot of the small amateur teams, I'm seeing lots of Barzos around at the races. I've been really loving the Mezcals on my fs bike (I moved the Barzos I ran last year on the hardtail onto my kids bike), they roll super smooth/quiet/fast on hardpack, very predictable and solid cornering grip. I think I will bug our team/shop guy about getting us on the Vittoria deal some more, I think I'd like to put Barzos back on the hardtail for wet, keeping Mezcals on the fs for dry.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Race day tomorrow and we will get about 2+ inches of rain and racing limestone rock gardens and a clay/limestone mix. It will probably be raining during the race as well. 

Running forekaster/forekaster 2.35 Exo on both race bikes.

Wish us luck!


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I had a Forekaster dual in 2.35 it wore out in like 6 weeks. I am curious what others experience is with that tires longevity.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

cassieno said:


> I had a Forekaster dual in 2.35 it wore out in like 6 weeks. I am curious what others experience is with that tires longevity.


How many miles did you do in 6 weeks? That seems super fast compared to my experience with maxxis tires.

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

cassieno said:


> I had a Forekaster dual in 2.35 it wore out in like 6 weeks. I am curious what others experience is with that tires longevity.


The Forekaster was designed for wet conditions. However, it works really well in hot and dry conditions but it does not last in those conditions.

Haven't tried them yet but I think the 2.4 Recon would be an amazing tire for the hot, dry and loose.


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## pedalinbob (Jan 12, 2004)

So many great tires these days.
I no longer race, but I love trying different tires. 

I just got in my first ride yesterday after a long winter off the bike. Though I'm ridiculously out of shape, I was stunned by how fast my new set of Mezcal 29x2.35 (730g each) rolled, and how well they gripped.
Southeast Michigan trail, mildly loose, sandy hard-ish pack with a layer of dry leaves over 75% of the trail. Top Fuel, 23mm inner rims (I think), pressures at 22f and 25 rear; I'm 160ish.

The tires rolled so well I felt like I was a month or two into the riding season. It was weird.

Though they aren't DHFs, I hit some turns pretty hard and they stuck like glue.
I didn't encounter any steep, technical climbs nor did I have any panic stops so I can't judge driving /stopping traction.

I will try pushing them harder today, to get a better sense of their limits and precision.

If I still raced I would seriously consider the Mezcal, despite their weight.

Bob


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

I ended up flatting the Ikon rear. I haven’t flatted in years and it was a relatively smooth but fast course. I need to do an inspection today but I expect it was a hole in the bead. 


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

cassieno said:


> I had a Forekaster dual in 2.35 it wore out in like 6 weeks. I am curious what others experience is with that tires longevity.


I run them in hot and dry conditions with the occasional wet. I have normal Maxxis high mileage out of them. Fronts loose barely any of the sipes on the center over 1500 miles. The rear will wear through the knob on the center and have no more sipe while the outer ones stay. There is still tons of traction because the knobs are so tall.

I would say they have 2-3 the life of a rocket ron or Ralph, similar to a nobby nic.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Cut sidewall on the front Fast Trak for me yesterday. Very odd as I am not even sure what I cut it on! Oh well. I saw 4 people with flats, so I am not going to get upset about it.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Sidewalk said:


> Cut sidewall on the front Fast Trak for me yesterday. Very odd as I am not even sure what I cut it on! Oh well. I saw 4 people with flats, so I am not going to get upset about it.


Thanks for the update on the new Sworks casing. I used to love the old (pre 2016) Sworks Fast Traks but the thin sidewalls cost me a race or two. Some races are just flat prone though, is what it is. Once it becomes a pattern then I make changes.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

cassieno said:


> I had a Forekaster dual in 2.35 it wore out in like 6 weeks. I am curious what others experience is with that tires longevity.


I have one in the front that just started third season. Might need a change in the middle of season though. Very few sharp rocks on the trails.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

Ardent front Ardent Race rear were quite good yesterday racing in damp/wet with just a little mud and quite a bit of 'marbles'. I did lean them over a lot further on the hard inside/flat of a berm (not this photo) than I had intended, and I was very pleased that they hung on really great.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

pinkpowa said:


> Thanks for the update on the new Sworks casing. I used to love the old (pre 2016) Sworks Fast Traks but the thin sidewalls cost me a race or two. Some races are just flat prone though, is what it is. Once it becomes a pattern then I make changes.


I am not writing it off yet. I have not done anything I would consider treacherous yet; just the one rock garden (on this course, with 3 races on this course) and I cut in an odd spot. I am going to try and see what the others were running for tires. My friend flatted last round on this course on a Maxxis, so the only pattern so far is the course...so far.

I definitely want to figure that out before I get to the bad courses!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

arnea said:


> I have one in the front that just started third season. Might need a change in the middle of season though. Very few sharp rocks on the trails.


Yeah, it's a great front due to the tall knobs, but I don't see it as a great rear.

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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Sidewalk said:


> I am not writing it off yet. I have not done anything I would consider treacherous yet; just the one rock garden (on this course, with 3 races on this course) and I cut in an odd spot. I am going to try and see what the others were running for tires. My friend flatted last round on this course on a Maxxis, so the only pattern so far is the course...so far.
> 
> I definitely want to figure that out before I get to the bad courses!


I talked to a guy walking after the first rock section after the initial climb to the pond...not even a bad rock section but it tore his racing Ralph sidewall too bad to repair.

It didn't seem like a terribly rough course to me but like you mentioned, there were a lot of crashes and repairs going on.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

MXIV424 said:


> I talked to a guy walking after the first rock section after the initial climb to the pond...not even a bad rock section but it tore his racing Ralph sidewall too bad to repair.
> 
> It didn't seem like a terribly rough course to me but like you mentioned, there were a lot of crashes and repairs going on.


A C1 friend flatted on lap 1 with Snakeskin Thunderburts in the tread.

I put an old RaRa 2.25 I had to get me through Sea Otter. The Fast Trak was SUPER thin on the sidewall where it tore. So I will consider saving those tires for special events in the future. I've actually had good luck with Schwalbe, so I might try the new RaRa combo soon. I want to try and avoid weak tires for Big Bear while hopefully avoiding too heavy with the Grizzly100.

I cut somewhere on the grassy descent area after the road climb. Seems weird, there are no rocks there.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Sidewalk said:


> A C1 friend flatted on lap 1 with Snakeskin Thunderburts in the tread.
> 
> I put an old RaRa 2.25 I had to get me through Sea Otter. The Fast Trak was SUPER thin on the sidewall where it tore. So I will consider saving those tires for special events in the future. I've actually had good luck with Schwalbe, so I might try the new RaRa combo soon. I want to try and avoid weak tires for Big Bear while hopefully avoiding too heavy with the Grizzly100.
> 
> I cut somewhere on the grassy descent area after the road climb. Seems weird, there are no rocks there.


You know it is a thin sidewall when you cant find the object that cut it.

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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

New xr3 looks great. Xr2 center, xr4 side knobs. Like a more aggressive fast track. 

I was out for a rip on my xr1s. Not sure if they have a stiffer sidewall then the xr2 but man i love these tires on dry. Hit any type of mud and they are absolutely useless tho. 

I find they dont squirm as bad as the 2



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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

JayDee81 said:


> In an article on Pinkbike he said that he chose the tires because in Moab you don't need knobby tires, you just need good compound, so he chose 2.35 Rekon Race front and rear, because it is a very fast tire and has a big volume in 2.35.


I have both Rekon Race 2.25 and 2.35. I can't call 2.35 a big volume. It's more like 2.3 on a 27mm rim and only slightly wider than 2.25.
In comparison, Ardent Race 2.35 is practically 2.4 on the same rim.


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## bellboyant (Dec 27, 2009)

Maxis Ikons 2.2 EXO still rock, 600g or less, super durable.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Raced the first race with rekons 2.35, awesome grip and seemed super soft over the roots, but 720g for xc race tyre seems little bit too much for me, especially considering my 63kg weight


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## broeli (Feb 15, 2008)

Does anyone have any actual real world weight and true size of the Rekon Race in 2.35? Im curious how it compares in size and weight to a 2.35 Mezcal or Ikon. 
I love my 2.35 Mezcals but have had a string of bad luck with punctures. Im looking to try a different setup for TSE


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## 17j (Feb 25, 2008)

I ride/race in the North East with lots and lots of roots and this time of year slippery roots/mud.
Historically I run specialized ground control front and rear with fast track rear when things dry up. Overall decent weight and wear. However, I am not sure if there is a better traction front for these conditions without giving up weight or rolling as I havent tried much (schwalbe and was shocked at hos short sidewall was) I weigh 170lbs and most people run 17ish psi in the front in attempt for traction...it gets slick on roots.
Looking for ground control alternative with same/better grip and roll, if there is one.


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

I rode 2.35 IKons front in rear at TSE in 2016. I'll most likely run that again this year.


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

broeli said:


> Does anyone have any actual real world weight and true size of the Rekon Race in 2.35? Im curious how it compares in size and weight to a 2.35 Mezcal or Ikon.
> I love my 2.35 Mezcals but have had a string of bad luck with punctures. Im looking to try a different setup for TSE


My Rekon Race 2.25 is 693g and 2.35 is 718g.
I did not record the width exactly. I was surprised that 2.35 is only marginally wider than 2.25, by like 1 mm. But it's a taller tire, so more volume.

I think 2.35 casing was ~59.3 plus/minus 0.3mm on the 27mm rim at 25 psi. The thread was slightly narrower, like by 1mm.

2.25 on the same rim was like 58mm but the thread was like 56mm. It looked overstretched. I suppose 2.25 is designed for 21-23 mm rims.

I think RR is built on a different casing than Ikon. I've read that Ardent Race shares casing with the Ikon and it's definitely a wider tire.


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

broeli said:


> Does anyone have any actual real world weight and true size of the Rekon Race in 2.35? Im curious how it compares in size and weight to a 2.35 Mezcal or Ikon.
> I love my 2.35 Mezcals but have had a string of bad luck with punctures. Im looking to try a different setup for TSE


My 2.35 RR EXO came in @ 700 grams.


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## chestr (Oct 15, 2016)

Picked up 2 of the new vittoria graphene 2.0 tyres. peyote 2.25 xc-race ones. It is quoted as 670g but i have no scales. Here it is next to a rekon race 2.25.

The sidewalls on the xc-race tyres are paper thin... i dont know how these are going to hold up. nothing like the TNT sidewalls.


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## Rivers2648 (Jan 8, 2019)

Looking for a F/R set of tires and wanted to see if someone has an opinion on what XC tires I should run from the list below? Priority would be for it to be puncture proof and work well across a variety of conditions (wet, loam, asphalt)?

*Front Tires*
Forekaster
Maxxis Rekon Race 2.35

*Rear Tires*
Maxxis Rekon Race 2.35
Aspen
Ardent race EXO 3C

Thanks.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Rivers2648 said:


> Looking for a F/R set of tires and wanted to see if someone has an opinion on what XC tires I should run from the list below? Priority would be for it to be puncture proof and work well across a variety of conditions (wet, loam, asphalt)?
> 
> *Front Tires*
> Forekaster
> ...


For a variety of conditions of the tires listed, I'd use the Forekaster front and Aspen rear.


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## OttaCee (Jul 24, 2013)

Rivers2648 said:


> Looking for a F/R set of tires and wanted to see if someone has an opinion on what XC tires I should run from the list below? Priority would be for it to be puncture proof and work well across a variety of conditions (wet, loam, asphalt)?
> 
> *Front Tires*
> Forekaster
> ...


If theres any moisture, I dont use the Aspens. Mostly stick with Forecaster front, Ardent Race rear. But if you know the course will be dry, get the Aspen on.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

OttaCee said:


> If theres any moisture, I dont use the Aspens. Mostly stick with Forecaster front, Ardent Race rear. But if you know the course will be dry, get the Aspen on.


+1.


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## slider_phil (Aug 27, 2014)

First try on Forecasters both front and rear yesterday. Absolutely love them in the wet now. A lot of others ran with their summer setups since the whole state has been a dust bowl up until Friday. Glad I didn't get lazy and swapped them out!


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## OttaCee (Jul 24, 2013)

With the trails somewhat drying up (in the Northeast), swapped out my rear from Forekaster to Rekon 2.25. Kept the Forekaster on the front for any damp spots. 

Tire once stretched does look pretty close to my 2.35 Forekasters or Ardent Race on my 25mm inner diameter wheels. 

Test run at race-pace speed showed that the Rekon is in-between the Aspen and Ardent Race when it comes to rolling resistance. Very Ardent like with the on-off feeling of the sideknobs, if you like to drift these tires are pretty good at controlled slides. Grip on technical is excellent. Once the rear hits any type of mud, its very uncontrollable and doesnt shed muck well. 

Would say this tire is great for (as rear tire only) - late spring/early summer rides where there's some dampness in certain parts of the course. Fast technical courses would best suite, it crushed endless rock/roots. Didnt feel real confident on high speed descents with grip there but had to feel it to get around sharp corners. 

This will likely replace my Ardent Race for late April-May races but likely to come off for regular rides during that time with the Forekaster


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## broeli (Feb 15, 2008)

I swapped out my basically new Mezcal f/r setup for Rekon Race front and rear to see how i like them. To me they seem similar to a Racing Ralph. I may run this setup at TSE depending on the weather. Initial impression without racing them yet is they definitely roll good, have good volume and grip good.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

OttaCee said:


> Recon - Grip on technical is excellent. Once the rear hits any type of mud, its very uncontrollable and doesnt shed muck well.
> 
> Would say this tire is great for (as rear tire only) - late spring/early summer rides where there's some dampness in certain parts of the course. Fast technical courses would best suite, it crushed endless rock/roots. Didnt feel real confident on high speed descents with grip there but had to feel it to get around sharp corners


I agree with your description of the Recon in 2.25. But as soon as it hits any wetness in a corner its no good. But in the dry and you can get it to the corner knobs, it hooks and goes.


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## Ranger Pride (Jan 21, 2005)

broeli said:


> I swapped out my basically new Mezcal f/r setup for Rekon Race front and rear to see how i like them. To me they seem similar to a Racing Ralph. I may run this setup at TSE depending on the weather. Initial impression without racing them yet is they definitely roll good, have good volume and grip good.


How does the rolling resistance compare to the Mezcal?


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

A follow up on the Racing Ralph/Ray front/rear combo. I’ve been running this for about 2 months and have loved it. Probably close to 300 miles on it including some local circuit races and a 30 mile XC race, plus lots of training. No significant tread wear, and (knocks on wood) I’ve had no issues with flats or cuts. I’m ~195 and running 24/27 PSI F/R.

These roll fantastically and grip really well in dry to moist conditions. As you’d expect they lose some traction in really loose/dusty or very soft conditions, but for typical race courses here in the PNW they’ve been awesome. I have a Forekaster on a spare rim that I keep to throw on the front if conditions warrant, but so far I’ve been really happy with the Schwalbes.


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## broeli (Feb 15, 2008)

Ranger Pride said:


> How does the rolling resistance compare to the Mezcal?


The Rekon Race rolls a little better. The Mezcal has more overall grip. I think the Maxxis mount up better and I'm hoping more durable. I've had string of bad luck puncturing my Mezcals. The Rekon Race also has great volume.. even in the 2.25 i mounted and are about 40 grams lighter each than the Mezcal


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## wheelzqc (Aug 31, 2016)

I'm currently trying the Specialized Fast track 2.3 and 2.1. Coming off Barzo, Mezcal, Ikon, Racing Raplh, Rocket Ron, etc.... its humid here and so far I'll say the Fasttrack is the best, for me, in that group in humid conditions. A bit surprised. They roll really smooth on the road as well.


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## MTBKNG (Dec 30, 2015)

Ran the Fast Track 2.3 as a front last year with Aspen Rear, had no issues, going to set up Recon Front for the small weight savings vrs. Fast track and Aspen Rear today for race in a couple weeks, hopefully the Recon has the same cornering grip as the Fast Track.

The 2.3 and 2.1 Fast Track Gripton setup is very popular in my area.....


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Old model 2.1 Fasttrak's on my gravel bike go quite nicely.
Could have done with them on it for the race today...


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Has anyone used the new Racing Ralph on the front?


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Nino raced new Maxxis tyre on Nove mesto - Aspen Race 2.4, seems huuuge !!

https://bikerumor.com/2019/05/24/sp...ype-maxxis-aspen-race-xc-mountain-bike-tires/


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## rocdog (Oct 26, 2005)

Has anyone tried an Ardent Race rear, and the regular Ardent up front. My current set up is Nobby Nic 2.25 up front and Racing Ralph rear. These are needing to be replaced and Im possibly looking for a different set up. The Schwalbes are light and predictable and fast rolling but I think the Maxxis will last longer. I don't want to add more rolling weight though and I think the Ardents are heavier from what I can tell.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

rocdog said:


> Has anyone tried an Ardent Race rear, and the regular Ardent up front.


 Yes, I put those on my hardtail for my 'wet' option; we get most often sandy-wet without a lot of goopy mud, so I didn't feel I needed a heavy tread, and I wanted to try something different. 2.4 regular Ardent skinwall front (non-tubeless version works fine tubeless on an old Stans ZTR) and 2.35 AR rear; they were fine, I didn't feel super confident in the one really muddy/snowy race we had, but fast with good grip overall everywhere else, - I'm not super excited about them, they did fine, but nothing really bad to say about them either, - I do remember taking a berm way to far on the inside and really leaning into the flat of the corner more than I meant to, and they held on great, so cornering grip was better than I had expected! I think these are in the 750g ish range, so not very lightweight. I'm thinking about either Barzos (again) or Rocket Rons for the hardtail for wet next season, - I prefer my fs bike and use it in the dry/damp races.


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## rocdog (Oct 26, 2005)

My trails are in the Sierras where we have mostly loose and sandy and loose over hard. Obviously the magic set up would be the lightest best traction with the lease amount of rolling resistance.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

rocdog said:


> My trails are in the Sierras where we have mostly loose and sandy and loose over hard. Obviously the magic set up would be the lightest best traction with the lease amount of rolling resistance.


One of my best races in Big Bear was with a Hans Dampf 2.4 up front. But not popular for XC due to its weight. I was destroyed on the climb, but pulled everyone back on all those loose turns and the long downhill.


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## wheelzqc (Aug 31, 2016)

Any more experience with S-Works? Curious to try it as a front tire. Right now I have front and rear Fast Track non-grid and non-sworks version, not sure about the name. Does that version have more protection than the sworks? Weight is not far off and they feel supple.
Thanks.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Slashed my front FT SW, replaced it with a spare RaRa I had laying around. Went to move my rear FT SW to another bike and the bead won't hold. I just ordered an Ardent Race and Ikon to replace them (first time using those tires).


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## Poncharelli (Jan 13, 2005)

rocdog said:


> Has anyone tried an Ardent Race rear,


I'm currently running an AR 2.35 up front and really like it. Listed at 745 gram with noticeably better cornering than the Aspen 2.2. Tire was pretty expensive so went with EXO protection for more life.

This seems like the sweet spot for our rocky mid week race course. Destroyed a rear aspen last year and I'm not a big dude. Bontrager XR1 2.2 (650g) has been reliable as a rear so far (got two of them free from a coworker).

In 2017 I ran Ardent 2.4 front and Ardent 2.25 rear both EXO on a SC Tallboy, to a Blur with 2.20 Aspens and my race times/placings weren't much different. Our local course is rough enough to equalize things I believe.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Poncharelli said:


> I'm currently running an AR 2.35 up front and really like it. Listed at 745 gram with noticeably better cornering than the Aspen 2.2 I was running up front. Tire was pretty expensive so went with EXO protection for more life.
> 
> This seems like the sweet spot for our rocky mid week race course. Destroyed a rear aspen last year and I'm not a big dude. Bontrager XR1 2.2 (650g) has been reliable as a rear so far (got two of them free from a coworker).
> 
> In 2017 I ran Ardent 2.4 front and Ardent 2.25 rear both EXO on a SC Tallboy, to a Blur with 2.20 Aspens and my race times/placings weren't much different. Our local course is rough enough to equalize things I believe.


Like ponch, im using a 2.35 ardent race on the front. Grips well in loose rock and hardpack. It's like you're on rails. It struggles in leaf litter.

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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Can anyone offer up their opinion on how much slower the bike moves going from a fast trak to a forekaster up front?

I really appreciate the grip of the FK a lot, but am wondering if I'm losing speed unnecessarily on those dry days (wet days it's a no brainier to stick with the FK). Whether that's 15 seconds or 3 minutes on a hour lap, I can't say.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Waaayyy too many variables to answer "how much slower the bike moves" in any logical way, especially when it's just a front tire change. Best bet is to visit bicyclerollingresistance.com if you want to compare tires to tires without other forces impacting bike speed/your speed.


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

Just swapped out my Schwalbe Racing Ralph/Ray combo for Ardent Race/Rekon Race F/R, both 2.35". Things are getting dry and loose here in the PNW, so fatter tires at lower pressures make sense. 

Ardent Race 3c/MaxSpeed/Exo in 29x2.35 was a portly 808g on my scale, which is more than I'd like. Rekon Race DC Exo 29x2.35 was 725g. Schwalbe tires that came off were both in the 650g range, so I added about 1/2 lb of rubber to my bike. Both Maxxis tires measured 2.35/2.4" on 25mm ID rims at riding pressure, which is a nice size.

Only one race with this setup, but I'd say it feels slower but is faster. Increased weight is somewhat noticeable, but grip is SO much better, and the bike is more comfortable due to lower pressures. More speed carried through corners, more confidence, less fatigue, all good things. Funny how riding smooth feels slower than braking/accelerating through each corner and feeling every pebble.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

MattMay said:


> Waaayyy too many variables to answer "how much slower the bike moves" in any logical way, especially when it's just a front tire change. Best bet is to visit bicyclerollingresistance.com if you want to compare tires to tires without other forces impacting bike speed/your speed.


I agree with matt. Theres just way too many variables. I suggest hot laps timed by strava. I prefer a grippy tire in the front in case i take a bad line, go in too hot, or something unexpected appears.

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## wheelzqc (Aug 31, 2016)

can,t you put the fast track on dry days and Forekaster on wet days ? Should be a quick swap and you get the best setup on that day


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Last weekend was the first short track XC (35min) of the season and I was glad of the Butcher front and Purgatory rear.
CX tracks are more demanding than normal XC tracks in some ways


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Just mounted Ikon 2.35/2.2 Maxxspeed 3C Exo. Only Maxxis I've used so far was a used AR up front. Season finale tomorrow!


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

Anyone try a Rekon Race 2.35 in the rear yet? I just bought one to try paired with an Ikon 2.35 up front on my SS.


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## broeli (Feb 15, 2008)

Bluebeat007 said:


> Anyone try a Rekon Race 2.35 in the rear yet? I just bought one to try paired with an Ikon 2.35 up front on my SS.


Not a 2.35 but i use a 2.25 Rekon Race rear with 2.35 Ikon front on my SS. So far i really like the combo. Race tested at Mohican 100, TSE, and Lumberjack so far


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

Cool. I rode 2.35 Ikons front and rear at TSE. I'm looking for a fast rear for all the gravel and keep roads at the Wilderness 101. Deciding between the Aspen, 2.35 Rekon Race or my old reliable, the 2.35 Ikon.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Bluebeat007 said:


> Anyone try a Rekon Race 2.35 in the rear yet? I just bought one to try paired with an Ikon 2.35 up front on my SS.


I have not used the 2.35 but I have used the 2.25. Currently running a 2.25 Recon Race rear and 2.2 Ikon front. The Recon's behave like a fast rolling low grip tire. I find them pretty similar to an Aspen, perhaps a bit less grip but significantly longer tread lifespan.


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

Just switched to a 2.25 Rekon Race rear, 2.25 Aspen front for an upcoming long distance race. First time on either tire.

Really fast light setup. Surprisingly grippy on my local loose/rocky trails. With a bit more practice and confidence there will be little DH/cornering sacrifice over my usual set-up... 2.2 Ardent Race rear, 2.35 Forekaster front.

So impressed with the Reckon Race I'm keen to try a 2.35 on the front.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

That’s an interesting combo. Aspens are slicker than Rekon Race so curious why they’re on the front not rear?


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

MattMay said:


> That's an interesting combo. Aspens are slicker than Rekon Race so curious why they're on the front not rear?


I didn't know Aspens are slicker? This review suggested the combo:

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/maxxis-rekon-race-first-look.html

I'll have to swap them around and see how they feel for myself.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Lahrs said:


> I didn't know Aspens are slicker? This review suggested the combo:
> 
> https://m.pinkbike.com/news/maxxis-rekon-race-first-look.html
> 
> I'll have to swap them around and see how they feel for myself.


The Aspens are just a bit stickier up front, actually they are a really good front tire all things considered. You will get way better life span out of your tires by reversing the two.

Just as an FYI make sure you are packing plugs, I have had a few more tread punctures then normal with Recon Races.


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

LMN said:


> The Aspens are just a bit stickier up front, actually they are a really good front tire all things considered. You will get way better life span out of your tires by reversing the two.
> 
> Just as an FYI make sure you are packing plugs, I have had a few more tread punctures then normal with Recon Races.


Thanks for the info. I carry plugs. Race is at Silver Star, which isn't as bad as local trails on tires. So fingers crossed.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

How does the Rekon Race 2.35 compare to something like an Ardent Race 2.2? I'm currently on an AR 2.2 and not super thrilled with its climbing traction. Lots of slippage on the decomposed granite we have here on the Front Range.


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

we put some Aspen 2.25 EXO TR on our bikes a couple weeks ago and have been really impressed. Much faster than Ikons and surprising grip on the front if you get some weight on the front end. They pair really well with a more aggressive tread up front if it's a bit wet or loose. Really happy with them, especially given the great weight (4 tires were: 620g, 630g, 630g, and 640g) for an EXO tire. 

We were running Fast Trak 2.3 right before this, which I generally really like. I really like the egg shape of the Fast Trak combined with its tread pattern... it goes into transition very well and bites into off camber sidehills because of it's shape. But the aspen are faster for sure and close to the same grip level in the front. 

But man-o-man... the last 4 fast traks we bought were garbage tires and had to go. All were WAY overweight 680-690g. That wouldn't have been so bad really, but 2 of them also leaked sealant out the sidewalls from the get go and were just unreliable. They are going back for sure. 

Somewhat related, I got a Specialized Ground Control 2.3 a while back for a trail tire on the front. GREAT tire. Rolls good and has excellent grip. Weight on it was also way off though at 785g. But it isn't a man race tire and it holds air great so I don't really care. I would consider using it in a race with lots of loose over hard or if it was wet though. I think it's better in transition to the outside knobs than a Forecaster (which I also love).


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Anyone tried the new XR3? 


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## tgarson (Jul 28, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> How does the Rekon Race 2.35 compare to something like an Ardent Race 2.2? I'm currently on an AR 2.2 and not super thrilled with its climbing traction. Lots of slippage on the decomposed granite we have here on the Front Range.


x2. Got a bike recently that came stock with Forekaster 2.35 front and AR 2.2 rear and am unimpressed with the AR traction for Front Range. If I was going for pure speed I'd run Mezcal G+ 2.25 F/R which don't have amazing traction either but roll much faster than the AR. Looking for a good option that roll decently well for more all around riding and training.


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## broeli (Feb 15, 2008)

tgarson said:


> x2. Got a bike recently that came stock with Forekaster 2.35 front and AR 2.2 rear and am unimpressed with the AR traction for Front Range. If I was going for pure speed I'd run Mezcal G+ 2.25 F/R which don't have amazing traction either but roll much faster than the AR. Looking for a good option that roll decently well for more all around riding and training.


Rekon Race isn't going to give you the traction you're looking for. They don't grip as well as a Mezcal i can tell you that. They aren't real grippy. I think you'd be better off with a 2.35 ikon if you want a 2.35


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## rocdog (Oct 26, 2005)

Anyone done regular Recons F/R in 2.25? Currently running a 2.4 Ardent up front and 2.25 AR rear. Not real happy with the 2.4 up front with my 25mm rims. Been toying with the idea of either Ikons, Rekons or just putting the Aspens back on that I have laying around the garage. Whatever combo needs to handle the conditions in the Sierras. The bike is a SC blur and I wish to stay as light as possible with tires but don't want to sacrifice a huge amount of traction or rolling resistance either. After reading all these posts, it seems like there is not a huge amount of differences between the Icons, Aspens, and Recons. Selecting tires should not be this much of a pain the the ass.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

https://www.vittoria.com/us/


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

rocdog said:


> Anyone done regular Recons F/R in 2.25? Currently running a 2.4 Ardent up front and 2.25 AR rear. Not real happy with the 2.4 up front with my 25mm rims. Been toying with the idea of either Ikons, Rekons or just putting the Aspens back on that I have laying around the garage. Whatever combo needs to handle the conditions in the Sierras. The bike is a SC blur and I wish to stay as light as possible with tires but don't want to sacrifice a huge amount of traction or rolling resistance either. After reading all these posts, it seems like there is not a huge amount of differences between the Icons, Aspens, and Recons. Selecting tires should not be this much of a pain the the ass.


I have rekons F/R 2,25 on a 25 mm rim , they are much much better than the ikons, 670 grams, very good traction and they are fast!


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

I've been running a 2.35 Ikon up front and the 2.35 Rekon Race in the rear on my hardtail. Cornering has been great thus far but the true test will be at the Wilderness 101 next weekend.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

What Skarhead said. Just replaced my Aspens with Rekon 2.25 in front and Rekon Race 2.25 rear. New favorite combo for my southern Cal dry and dusty conditions. Fast + traction.


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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

I also run Rekon 2.25 + Rekon Race 2.25 and it's a great combination for racing for sure, but I am not sure at all where is the limit of the tires when cornering hard or on loose gravel, but I am coming from enduro... On my new bike was Forecaster 2.35 + Ardent Race 2.25 though and while noticeably slower, this setup was also much better in cornering and also much better in braking. I would say that the difference in cornering + braking is much bigger than in the speed, so for non racers who like to go fast on the descents it's a no brainer. I also ran these with tubes, so a bit higher pressures than with the Rekons combo.


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## markus_krk (Jul 27, 2013)

Anyone had a chance to run both Rekon 2.25 and Ardent Race 2.2 as the front tire and can compare between those two?


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I noticed that there is a new Fast Trak listed as the "2020" version by some shops. Also comes with a transparent sidewall. Anyone know anything about them?

Example:
https://www.brandscycle.com/product...MIv8H5yLDO4wIV6f_jBx100gjoEAkYASABEgKNBPD_BwE


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

midwestmtb said:


> I noticed that there is a new Fast Trak listed as the "2020" version by some shops. Also comes with a transparent sidewall. Anyone know anything about them?
> 
> Example:
> https://www.brandscycle.com/product...MIv8H5yLDO4wIV6f_jBx100gjoEAkYASABEgKNBPD_BwE


Looks the same as the old Gripton version but with tanwalls.


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## MNSnoPro (Mar 1, 2016)

I've been swapping between Rekon Race 2.35 (front and rear), Aspen 2.25(front and rear) and Specialized Fastrack (2.35 S-works Front, 2.25 Control Rear)

Our soil type is primarily clayish hardpack but we also have trails that include a little more sand. So hardpack to loose over hard in tire terms. Little to no rock.

I keep wanting to like the Aspens but they seem squirely in the corners at speed. The Rekon Races are a very grippy tire and give me way more confidence in the corners than the other two. The Fastracks for me are the fastest all around tire(race day choice). They role the quickest but don't seem to give up too much in the cornering department. Not as grippy as the Rekon Race's but still predictable. 

I'm surprised more folks aren't talking about the Rekon Race's. In our soils they grip like an Ikon but roll quicker and provide a really plush ride with the 2.35" casing. Dang good all around tire. (Keep in mind we can't ride our trails when they get wet)

Just my .02


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Funny enough i was in the LBS and they had a huge shipment of old spec tires on blowout.

Got a capitan s works and control. Been looking for something that rolls well but has some great bite. For $35 a tire i couldnt resist. Might be look slow but the weight actually isnt too bad vs current xc tires, they are pretty big on my i27 rims and the close center knobs roll fast. I would say its a nice tire for between the fasttrak and ground control... maybe they should bring it back ha

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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

For loose and dusty summer riding and racing in the PNW, I've been loving the combo of Rekon 2.6 front/Rekon Race 2.35 rear. I know that's more tire than most prefer, but I find I can drop pressure and find excellent grip and predictable drift on marbly and dusty courses. Rekon 2.6 is actually lighter than the 2.4, and it rolls just fine.

Race tire in back rolls very fast and hooks up well as long as you lay the bike over enough to hook up the corner knobs. Granted our trails (races included) tend to have long, technical descents, so always looking for decent DH performance.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

27.5*26mm rim. Minion ss rear. Dhr2 front. They roll like an ikon in the back and weigh about the same as a 2.35 ikon with a 2.4 ardent in 29 casings. They obviously provide more traction than any 29 xc combo too.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MillerC said:


> 27.5*26mm rim. Minion ss rear. Dhr2 front. They roll like an ikon in the back and weigh about the same as a 2.35 ikon with a 2.4 ardent in 29 casings. They obviously provide more traction than any 29 xc combo too.


Slower than most XC combo's too.


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Yhea those tires are definitely not made for xc

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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

JasperGr said:


> Yhea those tires are definitely not made for xc
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


I find I'm a lot faster on tires like this than xc tires. I prefer 27.5 because they offer a big weight savings in these tread patterns. It's not like xc racers are on 1.8 skinnies any more either. They are rocking out 2.3 and 2.4 tires up front with 2.25 in the back. The purpose of 29 was the increase in traction with light tread.


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## Dave1078 (Oct 1, 2007)

DrewBird said:


> For loose and dusty summer riding and racing in the PNW, I've been loving the combo of Rekon 2.6 front/Rekon Race 2.35 rear. I know that's more tire than most prefer, but I find I can drop pressure and find excellent grip and predictable drift on marbly and dusty courses. Rekon 2.6 is actually lighter than the 2.4, and it rolls just fine.
> 
> Race tire in back rolls very fast and hooks up well as long as you lay the bike over enough to hook up the corner knobs. Granted our trails (races included) tend to have long, technical descents, so always looking for decent DH performance.


For the regular rekons, the weight can vary. I have a 2.6 exo that weighs in the upper 800s, which is about 100g off the spec. The 2.4 exo I have came in at 825. I never could get the 2.6 pressures right on the front. What do you run?

Also curious about your experience with the ray/Ralph combo. Did you run them over rocky terrain? Wondering how well they'd hold up for daily use.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

MillerC said:


> I find I'm a lot faster on tires like this than xc tires. I prefer 27.5 because they offer a big weight savings in these tread patterns. It's not like xc racers are on 1.8 skinnies any more either. They are rocking out 2.3 and 2.4 tires up front with 2.25 in the back. The purpose of 29 was the increase in traction with light tread.


I don't know anybody in a high XC class (CAT 1 and even CAT 2) rocking the tires you suggest. The bike handling skills at these levels are high enough that they won't be faster being a few seconds faster in the corners versus the minutes saved on rolling resistance.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

midwestmtb said:


> I don't know anybody in a high XC class (CAT 1 and even CAT 2) rocking the tires you suggest. The bike handling skills at these levels are high enough that they won't be faster being a few seconds faster in the corners versus the minutes saved on rolling resistance.


I once finished fourth in my age group in cat 2 a day after giving blood 9 months after knee surgery so they can't be that slow. The tires basically took me from a middle of the pack cat three Rider to a middle of the pack cat two Rider. The biggest difference I notice is my training. I'm just able to pedal harder through sections I would be skittish to push hard through in the past. I have mental health issues and gained about sixty pounds since then so I can't really prove much today.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

MillerC said:


> I once finished fourth in my age group in cat 2 a day after giving blood 9 months after knee surgery so they can't be that slow. The tires basically took me from a middle of the pack cat three Rider to a middle of the pack cat two Rider. The biggest difference I notice is my training. I'm just able to pedal harder through sections I would be skittish to push hard through in the past. I have mental health issues and gained about sixty pounds since then so I can't really prove much today.


Everyone has to choose the equipment that gives them the most confidence. So if those tires worked for you, then great. For me, I am slower on grippier, but draggier tires.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

midwestmtb said:


> Everyone has to choose the equipment that gives them the most confidence. So if those tires worked for you, then great. For me, I am slower on grippier, but draggier tires.


It's a faster combo than morsa morsa by a long shot. I don't notice any difference between the minion ss and a barzo in the back. I'm wondering if front tire rolling resistance has a smaller impact than people realize. Of course knobs weigh more. However, that is why I chose 27.5 since they weigh less. I've tried race King barzo and was just slower everywhere but long climbs and don't really have many long climbs to deal with.


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

Anyone riding the Rekon Race 2.25 (Front) and Aspen 2.25 (Rear) combo? I love the Aspen as a rear tyre, great grip int he corners and very fast rolling. Have been running an Ardent Race on the front for quite a while now but looking for something a bit faster rolling for racing duties.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

daveinaus said:


> Anyone riding the Rekon Race 2.25 (Front) and Aspen 2.25 (Rear) combo? I love the Aspen as a rear tyre, great grip int he corners and very fast rolling. Have been running an Ardent Race on the front for quite a while now but looking for something a bit faster rolling for racing duties.


https://marathonmtb.com/2017/07/13/maxxis-tyre-test/
This is a pretty good summary of maxxis xc tires. You may try a 2.0 ikon on the front with the aspen rear. It will hook up better and weighs about 100 grams less. If your on lots of packed roads there are other options as well.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

MillerC said:


> https://marathonmtb.com/2017/07/13/maxxis-tyre-test/
> This is a pretty good summary of maxxis xc tires. You may try a 2.0 ikon on the front with the aspen rear. It will hook up better and weighs about 100 grams less. If your on lots of packed roads there are other options as well.


I doubt that anyone here is using 2.0 tires for XC racing these days.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

Le Duke said:


> I doubt that anyone here is using 2.0 tires for XC racing these days.


Pretty much any mud tire is a 2.0 to 1.8 and they make a huge difference in those conditions. Try a maxxis beaver or specialized storm control or ect. out the next time you get a bunch of mud.


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

Dave1078 said:


> For the regular rekons, the weight can vary. I have a 2.6 exo that weighs in the upper 800s, which is about 100g off the spec. The 2.4 exo I have came in at 825. I never could get the 2.6 pressures right on the front. What do you run?
> 
> Also curious about your experience with the ray/Ralph combo. Did you run them over rocky terrain? Wondering how well they'd hold up for daily use.


I'm ~190lbs and have been running 22 front/25 rear with the Rekon/Rekon Race combo.

I had great luck with the Ray/Ralph tires; they're super light, roll well and I had no issues with flats despite handling them pretty roughly. I ultimately decided they're a bit too skinny and racy for me, though. My usual training rides include technical descents, so I just prefer something with a bit more grip. But if I were setting up a bike for just pure XC, the Ralph/Ray combo would be at the top of my list.


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## Dave1078 (Oct 1, 2007)

DrewBird said:


> I'm ~190lbs and have been running 22 front/25 rear with the Rekon/Rekon Race combo.
> 
> I had great luck with the Ray/Ralph tires; they're super light, roll well and I had no issues with flats despite handling them pretty roughly. I ultimately decided they're a bit too skinny and racy for me, though. My usual training rides include technical descents, so I just prefer something with a bit more grip. But if I were setting up a bike for just pure XC, the Ralph/Ray combo would be at the top of my list.


This is good info. I'm running the newer Hans Dampf 2.35 front and a rock razor 2.35 rear on my sb100. It's a fairly fast combo, but I am always wondering if I could get away with less tire. Especially lighter.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

Dave1078 said:


> This is good info. I'm running the newer Hans Dampf 2.35 front and a rock razor 2.35 rear on my sb100. It's a fairly fast combo, but I am always wondering if I could get away with less tire. Especially lighter.


This is why I went 27.5. In theory your shaving about 3 pounds off your bike by reducing the rotating mass and moving the moment of inertia closer to the hub. It's not like your using a slick xc tire begging for more traction provided by being a 29er.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

DrewBird said:


> I'm ~190lbs and have been running 22 front/25 rear with the Rekon/Rekon Race combo.
> I had great luck with the Ray/Ralph tires;


I have very limited experience with Maxxis stuff, but pretty good one with Schwalbe, as I'm running Rocket Run (this year Racing Ray) as front tire for pretty much forever  But contrary to last few years, I'm having whole bunch of flats this year, and was thinking to change for Maxxis next season. But wherever I look, I can't find really much positive of them compared to Schwalbe, except for price, which here is actually the opposite (Schwalbe is cheaper then Maxxis).
Since you were running both (on Schwalbe exactly my combo, and on Maxxis something I'm thinking about), how do Maxxis really compare to Schwalbe? I mean when it comes to rolling speed, grip and especially durability. Speed and grip on Schwalbe are perfect for my use, but durability might be a bit of issue, or maybe I'm just having bad luck this year


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

primoz said:


> I have very limited experience with Maxxis stuff, but pretty good one with Schwalbe, as I'm running Rocket Run (this year Racing Ray) as front tire for pretty much forever  But contrary to last few years, I'm having whole bunch of flats this year, and was thinking to change for Maxxis next season. But wherever I look, I can't find really much positive of them compared to Schwalbe, except for price, which here is actually the opposite (Schwalbe is cheaper then Maxxis).
> Since you were running both (on Schwalbe exactly my combo, and on Maxxis something I'm thinking about), how do Maxxis really compare to Schwalbe? I mean when it comes to rolling speed, grip and especially durability. Speed and grip on Schwalbe are perfect for my use, but durability might be a bit of issue, or maybe I'm just having bad luck this year


If your not happy with your tires try bontrager. They have a 30 day guarantee on their tires. https://outdoorgearadvisor.com/bontrager-xr2-tire-review/


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

MillerC said:


> https://marathonmtb.com/2017/07/13/maxxis-tyre-test/
> This is a pretty good summary of maxxis xc tires. You may try a 2.0 ikon on the front with the aspen rear. It will hook up better and weighs about 100 grams less. If your on lots of packed roads there are other options as well.


Lol, 2.0? No thanks. I rode Ikons for several years and find the Aspens hook up better when cornering and roll faster anyway. My question was specifically related to the Rekon Race as a front tyre (and pairing that with an Aspen on the rear).


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

Ive played with a bunch of different XC tyres and still always find myself back on Aspens front and rear. I find they have way more grip and inspire a lot more confidence than the Rekon Race. The only other tyre that I get a similar feel of confidence and rolling speed from is the Vittoria Mezcal, but they are heavy if you need siedwall protection.

I now do all my training on Mezcals and then race with the Apsens because the Aspens wear fast. If I know its going to be a rocky course with the risk of sharp rocks I use Mezcals or Rekon Race.

Im 71kg and find "my" sweet spot with each setup at: 21/23psi on the Apsens. 19/22 with the Rekon Race, and 23/26 with the Mezcals. All in a 2.25 width


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## DrewBird (Apr 11, 2007)

primoz said:


> I have very limited experience with Maxxis stuff, but pretty good one with Schwalbe, as I'm running Rocket Run (this year Racing Ray) as front tire for pretty much forever  But contrary to last few years, I'm having whole bunch of flats this year, and was thinking to change for Maxxis next season. But wherever I look, I can't find really much positive of them compared to Schwalbe, except for price, which here is actually the opposite (Schwalbe is cheaper then Maxxis).
> Since you were running both (on Schwalbe exactly my combo, and on Maxxis something I'm thinking about), how do Maxxis really compare to Schwalbe? I mean when it comes to rolling speed, grip and especially durability. Speed and grip on Schwalbe are perfect for my use, but durability might be a bit of issue, or maybe I'm just having bad luck this year


I'm running Maxxis with Exo casings; my setup (Rekon 2.6/R.Race 2.35) is on the heavy side for a pure XC rig. I'd have to check but I believe these came in about 775g/700g, respectively.

I found the Schwalbe tires to work very well in good conditions, but they definitely lack volume relative to the Maxxis setup above. The result is predictable, they hook up pretty well in tacky dirt but when the let go they do so completely. By contrast the high-volume Maxxis tires (with a few PSI lower pressure) are much more predictable in loose or slightly moist conditions, where I feel I can drift a bit but still save the bike. Overall much more confidence inspiring, though the Rekon Race is not the most tenacious when braking as you'd expect. I think both setups roll really well, Rekon Race is the faster tread but Schwalbes are lighter, so probably a wash.

I rode the Maxxis combo in an "all mountain" event this weekend, XC one day and Enduro the next, have to use same bike. I found the Maxxis tires to work really well, they roll great and are much less sketchy in greasy DH than the Schwalbes were.

I actually found both tires to last pretty well. I've put at least 300 miles on both sets and neither looks to have much wear. Schwalbe's new rubbers seem quite good, days of "one race" schwalbes seem to be behind us!


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

WRXJIM said:


> Ive played with a bunch of different XC tyres and still always find myself back on Aspens front and rear. I find they have way more grip and inspire a lot more confidence than the Rekon Race. The only other tyre that I get a similar feel of confidence and rolling speed from is the Vittoria Mezcal, but they are heavy if you need siedwall protection.
> 
> I now do all my training on Mezcals and then race with the Apsens because the Aspens wear fast. If I know its going to be a rocky course with the risk of sharp rocks I use Mezcals or Rekon Race.
> 
> Im 71kg and find "my" sweet spot with each setup at: 21/23psi on the Apsens. 19/22 with the Rekon Race, and 23/26 with the Mezcals. All in a 2.25 width


Cheers, yeah the Aspens really are a great tyre, surprisingly grippy although I dont think they would excel in muddy conditions. I think Ill give the Rekon Race a go and if I don't like it maybe try Aspens front and rear. The Ardent Race has been a great tyre so who knows I might just end up back on that anyway!


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## pk1 (Mar 25, 2010)

primoz said:


> I have very limited experience with Maxxis stuff, but pretty good one with Schwalbe, as I'm running Rocket Run (this year Racing Ray) as front tire for pretty much forever  But contrary to last few years, I'm having whole bunch of flats this year, and was thinking to change for Maxxis next season. But wherever I look, I can't find really much positive of them compared to Schwalbe, except for price, which here is actually the opposite (Schwalbe is cheaper then Maxxis).
> Since you were running both (on Schwalbe exactly my combo, and on Maxxis something I'm thinking about), how do Maxxis really compare to Schwalbe? I mean when it comes to rolling speed, grip and especially durability. Speed and grip on Schwalbe are perfect for my use, but durability might be a bit of issue, or maybe I'm just having bad luck this year


how does the new racing ray compare to the rocket ron?
i've heard they aren't quite as grippy


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

daveinaus said:


> Cheers, yeah the Aspens really are a great tyre, surprisingly grippy although I dont think they would excel in muddy conditions. I think Ill give the Rekon Race a go and if I don't like it maybe try Aspens front and rear. The Ardent Race has been a great tyre so who knows I might just end up back on that anyway!


I think your supposed to run the recon race as a rear with the Aspen up front. That is how all the maxxis media markets the tire.


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm tossing up whether to run it front or rear. It seems some of the pros have run it as a front as well but it would depend on the particular course i suppose. I might start with it on the rear and and Aspen up front see how it that goes goes. Aspen front and rear might end up being the best compromise as noted above but I am curious to try something new.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

daveinaus said:


> I'm tossing up whether to run it front or rear. It seems some of the pros have run it as a front as well but it would depend on the particular course i suppose. I might start with it on the rear and and Aspen up front see how it that goes goes. Aspen front and rear might end up being the best compromise as noted above but I am curious to try something new.


If you're on a budget maybe try mezcal rear Aspen front. That way you don't go through rear tires once every few weeks.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

pk1 said:


> how does the new racing ray compare to the rocket ron?
> i've heard they aren't quite as grippy


Racing Ray is not exactly same as Rocket Ron. It rolls faster (at least it feels as I honestly don't really have any means to do proper scientific test), and most of time it has good enough grip. But when you are on lose gravel, Rocket Ron certainly has better grip. And based on last few months experience, I would say Racing Ray is a little bit more fragile (and lighter) then Rocket Ron.
It surely depends what you want from tire, but for me Racing Ray is actually slightly nicer option then Rocket Ron, even though Rocket Ron was pretty much optimal tire for front for me until now. and with Speedgrip actually works, but I noticed this last year with Rocket Ron. It really holds grip longer then old compound. With old compound, tires were great for a while, but after some 700-800km they lost grip completely, even though thread profile was still pretty much intact. Speedgrip compound holds much much longer.


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

If you live in a rocky terrain you shouldn't go for the schwalbe Ralph ray. The durability is not so good.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G973F met Tapatalk


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

MillerC said:


> 27.5*26mm rim. Minion ss rear. Dhr2 front. They roll like an ikon in the back


Ive had plenty of success running an enduro front tire and railing courses where others struggles. You can attack in super loose twisty sections and stay on the gas.

Though I prefer a lighter tire like a Hans Dampf or Nobby Nic. They also roll far faster than a DHF, so you might give it a try.



MillerC said:


> and weigh about the same as a 2.35 ikon with a 2.4 ardent in 29 casings.


You are saying the 27.5 weighs the same as the 29 version of another tire?

Minion SS is:
Low volume
60 tpi
Heavier
Poor straight line braking traction because thats not what it is made to do.

It has poor Traction for XC racing and really is only better than Most XC tires in one place. Going down hill in softer dirt. Its pretty bad in loose over hard XC racing. On rocks, an IKON 2.35 is a far better tire.

If you value the side grip but want a better tire for racing and all around trail riding, you should Try a forekaster in the rear.



MillerC said:


> They obviously provide more traction than any 29 xc combo too.


There are many more combos you should try that work much better together. If you value traction, Try a NoNo F/R 2.35. If you are a maxxis guy, I would try a forekaster F/R. Maxxis doesnt meke a good lightweight front enduro worthy tire. Even the Aggressor is heavy, and no one should one shoudl be riding an ardent except for old school bike magicians on steel single speeds who's skills Make tire choice a non issue.

This may seem crazy, but if you can make a minion work for you, you might be surprised by an aspen rear tire paired with a Grippy front tire.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

Here is a breakdown of the favorite combos i've tried. All of my local trails are packed with turns, lots of flats, and no fire road climbs. The biggest rear tire I can fit is a 2.3 morsa and it rubs on hard climbs when
morsa-barzo. Imagine ikon/ardent but ardent with bigger side knobs.
race king-barzo. Lightning fast climber and a well balanced pairing. I liked these a lot on some trails but found my workouts weren't the same because I was just coasting from turn to turn. I get smoked at races through the turns.
ground control-ardent Great until you lose traction forever and need knee surgery.
minion ss-dhr2-most fun and confident inspiring tires I've ridden. Not any slower than barzo morsa. and faster than morsa/morsa. The SS requires less lean angle than the morsa. The morsa you really have to lean it which is hard to do in tight turns. Where as the ss hooks up really fast.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

How do the side knobs on an xr3 compare to other tires side knobs? From the pictures it looks like a barzo down the middle and a morsa on the sides?


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Something i just discovered is that Cannondale XCO team almost alway use Thunder Burt 2.25 front/rear, sometimes Burt rear / RRalph front.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Raikzz said:


> Something i just discovered is that Cannondale XCO team almost alway use Thunder Burt 2.25 front/rear, sometimes Burt rear / RRalph front.


Same with Pauline Ferrand Prevot on Canyon - usually RRalph front and ThunderBurt back.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

kevbikemad said:


> Same with Pauline Ferrand Prevot on Canyon - usually RRalph front and ThunderBurt back.


I also found it strange that they were using the new "rear" specific Racing Ralph on the front. At least that's how Schwalbe marketed the new Ralph. I guess they don't like the new Racing Ray for the front??


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## pk1 (Mar 25, 2010)

Stonerider said:


> I also found it strange that they were using the new "rear" specific Racing Ralph on the front. At least that's how Schwalbe marketed the new Ralph. I guess they don't like the new Racing Ray for the front??


yeah, the new ralph looks to be designed for traction and braking, not cornering. i would have thought it would make for a poor front option

of course pros do many things us mere mortals would never think possible but i can't think why a ralph would work better on the front than a ray or ron, except for straight line braking which is not normally a major limiting factor


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

pk1 said:


> yeah, the new ralph looks to be designed for traction and braking, not cornering. i would have thought it would make for a poor front option
> 
> of course pros do many things us mere mortals would never think possible but i can't think why a ralph would work better on the front than a ray or ron, except for straight line braking which is not normally a major limiting factor


I haven't rode them but I think they are like the xr3 and xr4 but in a lighter tire. The racing ralph basicly has the side knobs of the ray and the ray has the big knobs all over it.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Stonerider said:


> I also found it strange that they were using the new "rear" specific Racing Ralph on the front. At least that's how Schwalbe marketed the new Ralph. I guess they don't like the new Racing Ray for the front??


The Racing Ralph probably just rolls faster and offers enough front traction to work.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Has anybody order from bike-components.de before? 

I'm about too order some tires, but I'm wondering how quick it will ship and arrive to USA.

Their prices on tires even with shipping included is absolutely low to what you can procure in usa.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

https://www.jensonusa.com/Maxxis-Minion-DHF-275-Skinwall-Tire
Anyone have weights on the tire?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

TDLover said:


> Has anybody order from bike-components.de before?
> 
> I'm about too order some tires, but I'm wondering how quick it will ship and arrive to USA.
> 
> Their prices on tires even with shipping included is absolutely low to what you can procure in usa.


Always!

I order 6-10 tires at a time because the shipping is a flat rate.

Shipping is FAST. It's so cheap, I can buy in bulk, weight the tires and could literally sell off the heavy ones. The weight variance on Schwalbe is insane. My wife gets all the ligh weight stuff for her race bike and I get the table scraps .


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

MillerC said:


> https://www.jensonusa.com/Maxxis-Minion-DHF-275-Skinwall-Tire
> Anyone have weights on the tire?


880

That's 27.5 only and this is an XC forum you know?


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

FJSnoozer said:


> 880
> 
> That's 27.5 only and this is an XC forum you know?


I'm faster on my 27.5 with nobbies than I was on my 29er with slicks.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

MillerC said:


> I'm faster on my 27.5 with nobbies than I was on my 29er with slicks.


Yes, because slicks arent very fast on mountain bike trails.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

FJSnoozer said:


> Yes, because slicks arent very fast on mountain bike trails.


Nino used to ride semi slicks with trail bike side lugs.
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a20032614/schurter-s-scott-scale/

I don't see why minion ss is such a bad tire for xc race. I ride 27.5 like nino. Nino fast. If they made a 650 gram dhf I would be all over it.


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

MillerC said:


> Nino used to ride semi slicks with trail bike side lugs.
> https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a20032614/schurter-s-scott-scale/
> 
> I don't see why minion ss is such a bad tire for xc race. I ride 27.5 like nino. Nino fast. If they made a 650 gram dhf I would be all over it.


Nino hasnt ridden a 27.5 in a few years now... Its gotta say something ;-) 
I was like you, and thought 27.5 was better/faster... until a got a 29er... I wont even look a 27.5 Enduro bike now...


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

MillerC said:


> Nino used to ride semi slicks with trail bike side lugs.
> https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a20032614/schurter-s-scott-scale/
> 
> I don't see why minion ss is such a bad tire for xc race. I ride 27.5 like nino. Nino fast. If they made a 650 gram dhf I would be all over it.


Stop it already. No matter how hard you try, you are not going to convince everyone here to adopt your tire of choice based on your sample is 1. You have no idea the bike handling capabilities of the people here, the trails that are ridden, etc. Ask more questions, give advice less.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Nothing wrong with being faster on aggressive tires. I've done a race where the front 800+g Hans up front paid off with me getting on a podium. It was a loose course, and the weight penalty was worth it.

But I'm not on that tire for most races.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Yes, I can see outlier scenarios where an aggressive tire might be an advantage. But in August in most places in the country, we are dealing with mostly dusty, hardpack trails. Running a minion in a competitive class is an automatic handicap.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

MillerC said:


> Nino used to ride semi slicks with trail bike side lugs.
> https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a20032614/schurter-s-scott-scale/


If nothing else, this illustrated how much XC race rigs have changed in just the last 5 years.

17 lb hardtails - seems like the wrong tool for the job now.

I think he did run a little more aggressive tread when using Dugast often as well.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

I'm on 27.5 because I'm poor and wanted a modern dentist bike for next to nothing. Now I'm on a 27.5 jamis dragon(68hta 120 fork), full m9000, manitou marvel pro, hadley hubs(135 rear) stans hoops. All for about $1250 total. I started on a caffeine F29 and went over the bars about once every ride until I had to have knee surgery from a wreck. I demoed a ros 9 and really liked it but it weighed like 30 pounds and cost a lot. My Jamis dragon weighs about 23 pounds. I'm on knobbies because I don't trust xc tires anymore after uncontrollably sliding out and needing knee surgery. Any recommendations on tires to try for Midwest riding? Michigan, IN, IL, OH. The local courses don't have any fire roads and are nothing but Blue, black, and green single track. The blacks have technical root gardens.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

MillerC said:


> I'm on 27.5 because I'm poor and wanted a modern dentist bike for next to nothing. Now I'm on a 27.5 jamis dragon(68hta 120 fork), full m9000, manitou marvel pro, hadley hubs(135 rear) stans hoops. All for about $1250 total. I started on a caffeine F29 and went over the bars about once every ride until I had to have knee surgery from a wreck. I demoed a ros 9 and really liked it but it weighed like 30 pounds and cost a lot. My Jamis dragon weighs about 23 pounds. I'm on knobbies because I don't trust xc tires anymore after uncontrollably sliding out and needing knee surgery. Any recommendations on tires to try for Midwest riding? Michigan, IN, IL, OH. The local courses don't have any fire roads and are nothing but Blue, black, and green single track. The blacks have technical root gardens.


I'm in the same region and lots of people who find XC tires sketchy, but still race, are happy with the Ground Control, Ardent (or Ardent race) or Bontrager XR3 which are light trail tires. They are fast but still grippy. I haven't used them myself so I'm just passing on 2nd hand info.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

MillerC said:


> I'm on 27.5 because I'm poor and wanted a modern dentist bike for next to nothing. Now I'm on a 27.5 jamis dragon(68hta 120 fork), full m9000, manitou marvel pro, hadley hubs(135 rear) stans hoops. All for about $1250 total. I started on a caffeine F29 and went over the bars about once every ride until I had to have knee surgery from a wreck. I demoed a ros 9 and really liked it but it weighed like 30 pounds and cost a lot. My Jamis dragon weighs about 23 pounds. I'm on knobbies because I don't trust xc tires anymore after uncontrollably sliding out and needing knee surgery. Any recommendations on tires to try for Midwest riding? Michigan, IN, IL, OH. The local courses don't have any fire roads and are nothing but Blue, black, and green single track. The blacks have technical root gardens.


It sounds more mental than anything. Get a tire that has a lot of grip on the front and a faster one for the back. Nobby nic, continetal mountain king, hans damphf, etc. Put a 2.35 ikon on the back and go for it. You have a super predictable tire on the front and the back has enough volume for grip, ride compliance, and braking traction.

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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

Rod said:


> It sounds more mental than anything. Get a tire that has a lot of grip on the front and a faster one for the back. Nobby nic, continetal mountain king, hans damphf, etc. Put a 2.35 ikon on the back and go for it. You have a super predictable tire on the front and the back has enough volume for grip, ride compliance, and braking traction.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


That is definitely a big chunk of the problem. I spun my 36 ring out on my caffeine f29 and hit a sweeping s covered in a dense layer of pine straw and my whole bike washed out and had to have knee surgery. Now, I'm scared to anything that makes a tire remotely bark on hard pack. At the time of knee surgery I was 6'3 180lbs with a resting heart rate of 34 bpm. I was riding close to 15 hours a week. Now i'm 235lbs with a resting heart rate of 55bpm. Tire combo was 2.1 ground control 2.4 ardent for fall riding.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

MillerC said:


> That is definitely a big chunk of the problem. I spun my 36 ring out on my caffeine f29 and hit a sweeping s covered in a dense layer of pine straw and my whole bike washed out and had to have knee surgery. Now, I'm scared to anything that makes a tire remotely bark on hard pack. At the time of knee surgery I was 6'3 180lbs with a resting heart rate of 34 bpm. I was riding close to 15 hours a week. Now i'm 235lbs with a resting heart rate of 55bpm. Tire combo was 2.1 ground control 2.4 ardent for fall riding.


I always take it easy when there is debris on the ground. If I see pine needles, I'm backing it down until I know the grip level. I think you can crash on any tire. I demoed a Yeti not long ago with Minions and I washed out because I didn't weigh the front properly because I wasn't used to the bike geometry. And I normally run Aspens or Fast Traks on the front and rarely wash out.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

midwestmtb said:


> I always take it easy when there is debris on the ground. If I see pine needles, I'm backing it down until I know the grip level. I think you can crash on any tire. I demoed a Yeti not long ago with Minions and I washed out because I didn't weigh the front properly because I wasn't used to the bike geometry. And I normally run Aspens or Fast Traks on the front and rarely wash out.


This is good advice. Wet leaves, pine needles, etc. Can cause a great tire to lose traction. Proceed with caution until you're confident and then go for it.

You'll get your confidence back but it'll just take more seat time. Have fun

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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

midwestmtb said:


> I always take it easy when there is debris on the ground. If I see pine needles, I'm backing it down until I know the grip level. I think you can crash on any tire. I demoed a Yeti not long ago with Minions and I washed out because I didn't weigh the front properly because I wasn't used to the bike geometry. And I normally run Aspens or Fast Traks on the front and rarely wash out.


I've only had a front tire wash out twice on me and once was an XR1 in the middle of a mud hole on a demo bike but I can't seem to get the rear tire to hold enough traction when I lean the bike. I've tried a lot of rear tires the rear end just seems to slide off into the woods while the front tire tracts straight through a sweeping turn. Any advice on how to correct that?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Sidewalk said:


> Nothing wrong with being faster on aggressive tires. I've done a race where the front 800+g Hans up front paid off with me getting on a podium. It was a loose course, and the weight penalty was worth it.
> 
> But I'm not on that tire for most races.


Same here,

805 G HD, on many of my only Cat 1 podiums. I didnt need the tire and would have been just as fast if not faster on a Forekaster. I usually had it on there because I was too lazy to change tires and it was better to prop the legs up and rest for the race.



MillerC said:


> Any recommendations on tires to try for Midwest riding? Michigan, IN, IL, OH. The local courses don't have any fire roads and are nothing but Blue, black, and green single track. The blacks have technical root gardens.


It sounds like you are just going one extreme to the other which is why you have great experiences. Dont worry, you will make your way there if you try stuff out. A cheaper way to do so is to try out ordering from the site mentioned above. Offroad, MOST people would be faster with an intermediate front tire at a minimum yet they bounce and slide around on what they see a pro run. Most people will not be faster on a full on super heavy enduro tire Than they would be on a 150 gram lighter Agressive XC/Trail tire.

You are not a pro and should not be looking at what Pros run at all. They are paid to also run those

If you are on 27.5, you should check out a 2.35 Nobby Nic. Its 680 ish grams. I would say go ahead and toss those on front and rear and go party with confidence. You can run that 2.25 in the rear and it MAY be even lighter depending on who poured the rubber in the mold that day. I have up to 80 grams variance in my NoNos, but I buy them in bulk and use teh lighter ones in race season and the heavier in off season.

for racing, it sounds like you may enjoy the NoNo front with a faster rear. The high volume front will really help you carry speed over those roots. Get that pressure right.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

MillerC said:


> I've only had a front tire wash out twice on me and once was an XR1 in the middle of a mud hole on a demo bike but I can't seem to get the rear tire to hold enough traction when I lean the bike. I've tried a lot of rear tires the rear end just seems to slide off into the woods while the front tire tracts straight through a sweeping turn. Any advice on how to correct that?


That's a body position issue you are explaining. You see this a lot in people who stay in the saddle and lean the bike like a moto. You the bike is leaning but really you arent much. You should be separated and putting downward pressure down straight into the ground. You may be adding to the centrifugal force and pushing the tire sideways.

Also, if your front is not sliding but your rear is, you could be just putting more weight on the front than necessary and need to shift your hip position back just slightly to put more weight through the pedals and into the rear knob.

We arent with you to see what your cornering flaws are (we all have them). So I would look into Lee McCormack, as It seems like it would help you.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

FJSnoozer said:


> That's a body position issue you are explaining. You see this a lot in people who stay in the saddle and lean the bike like a moto. You the bike is leaning but really you arent much. You should be separated and putting downward pressure down straight into the ground. You may be adding to the centrifugal force and pushing the tire sideways.
> 
> Also, if your front is not sliding but your rear is, you could be just putting more weight on the front than necessary and need to shift your hip position back just slightly to put more weight through the pedals and into the rear knob.
> 
> We arent with you to see what your cornering flaws are (we all have them). So I would look into Lee McCormack, as It seems like it would help you.


I made a new thread to go over bike handling.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

Is this a good rear https://www.trekbicyclesuperstore.c...LLbc6q1cxuxidxHs-Q1iDntLHq1-qkNRoCfKAQAvD_BwE for 26mm wide rims? How does it hook up compared to race King?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I usually race with 2.3" Ground Control's but as it's winter here, I'm going for a Butcher front and Purgatory rear for the next race as I don't know the conditions or trails. Better to be safe than sorry.
Next summer it'll be Fast Trak's front and rear.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

I think you should stick to the suggestion of the nobby nics. They roll very well for a full knobby, excellent grip, durable with the right sidewall, and they can do it all rather well. If the rear is sliding out put one on the rear too instead of the ikon i suggested. These are fast enough to race and train on all season.

Ive used the xr1 but the grip is nothing compared to the nic. 

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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

Rod said:


> I think you should stick to the suggestion of the nobby nics. They roll very well for a full knobby, excellent grip, durable with the right sidewall, and they can do it all rather well. If the rear is sliding out put one on the rear too instead of the ikon i suggested. These are fast enough to race and train on all season.
> 
> Ive used the xr1 but the grip is nothing compared to the nic.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


How would 2.2 xr3 rear xr4 front compare to nobby nic? I like to buy my wear parts at lbs and nics are expensive.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

MillerC said:


> How would 2.2 xr3 rear xr4 front compare to nobby nic? I like to buy my wear parts at lbs and nics are expensive.


I dont have enough experience on the xr3/4 to really answer your question. Im sure someone with more experience can chime in. I hear the bontrager tires are fantastic from a friend who works in the industry.

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## Dirtnbrews (May 17, 2017)

I have a pair of XR3s and the side knobs are completely falling apart after 6 weeks and only 150 miles on them. Theses tires didn’t last long at all, pretty disappointed


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

Dirtnbrews said:


> I have a pair of XR3s and the side knobs are completely falling apart after 6 weeks and only 150 miles on them. Theses tires didn't last long at all, pretty disappointed


Was that the team issue tires or the cheap ones? I've never heard about wear issues with bontrager tires.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

MillerC said:


> How would 2.2 xr3 rear xr4 front compare to nobby nic? I like to buy my wear parts at lbs and nics are expensive.


A lot of my friends run this. Most just go 2.4 front/rear, but 2.2/2.4 would work too. It's a good setup for the loose, Dusty, dry, rocky socal trails. I don't have much more info than that!

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## Dirtnbrews (May 17, 2017)

They were the XR3 team issues(the newer model)


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## mnpikey (Sep 18, 2017)

Hi everyone!

Could someone please help me pick a better set of XC race tires? I raced a quick 25 miles today on a 2.3 DHF (front) and a 2.3 Agressor (rear). I had just swapped out my DHR for the Agressor for this race and it performed well. No one was able to catch me on the fast rocky downhill sections and I made up alot of time from my lack of climbing speed.

But I know none of the above are "true" XC tires. Neither is my bike being a 27.5 2016 Santa Cruz 5010. But I'm making do with it as I experiment with more and more race events this year.

What should I try next? I want to stick with Maxxis I think? My rims are 27mm Santa Cruz Reserves.

Ardent Race 2.2 (front) and Ikon 2.2 (rear)?

Ardent Race 2.2 (front) and Aspen 2.25 or even 2.1 (rear)? Not sure if 2.1s would be ok to run on 27mm rims though? 20 years ago I used to run 2.1s on 19mm internal, lol.

Keep seeing the Rekon race mentioned but too bad they aren't making that in 27.5 (but I understand why).

Thanks!


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Dirtnbrews said:


> I have a pair of XR3s and the side knobs are completely falling apart after 6 weeks and only 150 miles on them. Theses tires didn't last long at all, pretty disappointed


That's been my experience with the 2.4 XR4 Team Issue I've been running on my rear wheel this summer. The shoulder knobs are significantly worn after a month. If it was a front tire I'd be tossing it. I do ride a fair bit of pavement to the trail head, but similar Maxxis tires have lasted many months longer, for me.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

For guys with the xr3//4 problems have you considered returning them with the 30 day bontrager policy?


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## Dirtnbrews (May 17, 2017)

Didn’t notice it until after 30 days


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

Dirtnbrews said:


> Didn't notice it until after 30 days


When reading reviews I've heard they wear faster than other tires but people were still getting 800 miles out of them. 150 miles is a new story.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

MillerC said:


> For guys with the xr3//4 problems have you considered returning them with the 30 day bontrager policy?


I guess I wouldn't categorize it as a "problem"... They haven't lasted as long, for my specific conditions, as I'd like. That's pretty hard to quantify and I can't point to a specific defect. It's no big deal, they were on sale.


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## hesitationpoint (Aug 11, 2017)

MillerC said:


> When reading reviews I've heard they wear faster than other tires but people were still getting 800 miles out of them. 150 miles is a new story.


800 is still not great. I get 1500 out of my Specialized Gripton tires. 1000 miles as a front and then another 500 after moving them to the rear.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

MillerC said:


> When reading reviews I've heard they wear faster than other tires but people were still getting 800 miles out of them. 150 miles is a new story.


800 miles is a really good life span for a rear.

A tire showing significant wear at 150 miles is common for any performance tire in hot abrasive conditions. The combination of hot weather and low grip conditions just shreds soft (expensive) tires.

This summer alone I have shredded the knobs completely off a Recon Race, Aspen, and DHR.


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

I think the Ardent race is a bit narrow. But it's a decent front tire. 

I really like the Aspen 2.25 as a rear most of the time and they are great frotn and rear on the right trails. Ikon front Aspen rear is a good combo and the 2.35 Ikon is awesome if you need a touch more grip. 

I also like Forekaster front, Ikon 2.2 rear. great all around combo. People think the Forekaster is just for mud, but i'ts a great general use tire for looser conditions and general trail riding.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

My wife have had better luck than some of the others here with these tires. The trail we ride isnt hard on tires though


I do suggest you going with at least a 2.35 on the front miller. I would run a 2.35 on the rear too for the extra traction and cushion. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

Rod said:


> My wife have had better luck than some of the others here with these tires. The trail we ride isnt hard on tires though
> 
> I do suggest you going with at least a 2.35 on the front miller. I would run a 2.35 on the rear too for the extra traction and cushion.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


My chainstay can only handle like a 2.3. The oversized 2.35 would rub I believe. I'm hoping the 2.2 xr3 on a 26mm rim hooks up really well. The biggest tire I can possibly fit is a 2.3 morsa in the back. My minions fit pretty easily but the morsa rubs under hard climbs.


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## Dave1078 (Oct 1, 2007)

mnpikey said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> Could someone please help me pick a better set of XC race tires? I raced a quick 25 miles today on a 2.3 DHF (front) and a 2.3 Agressor (rear). I had just swapped out my DHR for the Agressor for this race and it performed well. No one was able to catch me on the fast rocky downhill sections and I made up alot of time from my lack of climbing speed.
> 
> ...


Knowing you're used to a DHF and DHR/Aggressor rear, it would probably be a real shock to go back to pure XC tires. Sticking with Maxxis, some options I'd consider for the front would be either the regular Rekon 2.4 3c or Ardent Race 2.35. For the rear, you can get away with less tread. Anything from an Ardent Race to an Aspen, depending on your terrain. If it helps, I asked a Maxxis rep about rolling speed on five tires and here's what he gave me (1 being faster):

1. Ardent Race
2. Ardent
3. Rekon
4. Forekaster
5. Aggressor

The ikon and aspen are of course faster though. 2.1-2.2 would be ok if you're riding smoother trails. Sounds like you're not though. So that's why I'd go with 2.3-2.4" for your rims.


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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

Dave1078 said:


> 1. Ardent Race
> 2. Ardent
> 3. Rekon
> 4. Forekaster
> 5. Aggressor


That is unexpected. I would think that Rekon sits on top of this list, if we're talking same width and same TPI.


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

JayDee81 said:


> That is unexpected. I would think that Rekon sits on top of this list, if we're talking same width and same TPI.


Rekon, not Rekon Race.
The Ardent Race and Ardent have a tighter and lower profile tread profile down the center than the regular rekon giving them less rolling resistance, hence faster rolling speed


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

briscoelab said:


> I think the Ardent race is a bit narrow. But it's a decent front tire.
> 
> I really like the Aspen 2.25 as a rear most of the time and they are great frotn and rear on the right trails. Ikon front Aspen rear is a good combo and the 2.35 Ikon is awesome if you need a touch more grip.
> 
> I also like Forekaster front, Ikon 2.2 rear. great all around combo. People think the Forekaster is just for mud, but i'ts a great general use tire for looser conditions and general trail riding.


Forekaster is a great front for most conditions and excels in dry blown out and loose over hard.

The tire is not a mud tire.

It seven categorized as Wet / loose over hard. These are the two conditions where it is magical and you will ride circles around people on other tires.

at Marathon Nationals, I ran them front and rear. I never went down, and had all of the grip. I passed plenty of friends who were falling in Mud hollows. However, with the clay based mud. They quickly filled the frame and did not shed. This could be a result of the mud type though. It is pretty fantastic on wet slippery rocks due to the the siping.


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## JayDee81 (Jan 11, 2019)

WRXJIM said:


> Rekon, not Rekon Race.
> The Ardent Race and Ardent have a tighter and lower profile tread profile down the center than the regular rekon giving them less rolling resistance, hence faster rolling speed


I know it's just Rekon. I have it on the front with Rekon Race on the back. I had Ardent Race on the rear wheel before and the Rekon's thread definitely isn't higher profile. I'd say it is a little bit lower that that of Ardent Race, but I agree, that Ardent Race has tighter thread by a big margin.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Has anybody used the Specialized Renegade? If so, how does it compare to the Fast Trak in dry, loose over hard, and occasional medium conditions (but not wet)?


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

midwestmtb said:


> Has anybody used the Specialized Renegade? If so, how does it compare to the Fast Trak in dry, loose over hard, and occasional medium conditions (but not wet)?


https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tire...t-renegade-rear-fast-tracks-both-1017464.html


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

That comparison is also not the new Gripton versions.


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## Dave1078 (Oct 1, 2007)

DrewBird said:


> I'm ~190lbs and have been running 22 front/25 rear with the Rekon/Rekon Race combo.
> 
> I had great luck with the Ray/Ralph tires; they're super light, roll well and I had no issues with flats despite handling them pretty roughly. I ultimately decided they're a bit too skinny and racy for me, though. My usual training rides include technical descents, so I just prefer something with a bit more grip. But if I were setting up a bike for just pure XC, the Ralph/Ray combo would be at the top of my list.


Giving your Rekon 2.6/Race 2.35 combo a go to see how I like it. Volume is especially helpful here for all the rocks.


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## eduardodfj (Aug 15, 2019)

Racing Ray and Racing Ralph coming up in 2.35:

https://r2-bike.com/SCHWALBE-Tire-Racing-Ray-29-x-235-ADDIX-SpeedGrip-EVO-SnakeSkin-TLE-2020
https://r2-bike.com/SCHWALBE-Tire-Racing-Ralph-29-x-235-ADDIX-Speed-EVO-SnakeSkin-TLE-2020

I've exhausted a pair (the current 2.25, of course) and am very happy with them. 1.600 miles and still strong, although I can feel already they are loosing performance, specially the Ralph. In my opinion, the best XC tires available, and I'm looking forward to that 2.35 Ray.


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Damn 770gr for a 2.35 hahaha 120gr weight diff

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G973F met Tapatalk


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Sidewalk said:


> I am not writing it off yet. I have not done anything I would consider treacherous yet; just the one rock garden (on this course, with 3 races on this course) and I cut in an odd spot. I am going to try and see what the others were running for tires. My friend flatted last round on this course on a Maxxis, so the only pattern so far is the course...so far.
> 
> I definitely want to figure that out before I get to the bad courses!


Sidewalk, what's the latest update on your S-works Fast Traks? Have you determined if they are tough enough yet to handle riding and racing in normal conditions?


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

midwestmtb said:


> Sidewalk, what's the latest update on your S-works Fast Traks? Have you determined if they are tough enough yet to handle riding and racing in normal conditions?


I would say no. I slashed the one tire, then the other tire went bad I think just from trying to swap it to a different wheel. So two SWorks tires gone. I replaced them with Ikons. I think only one race since then.


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## pk1 (Mar 25, 2010)

eduardodfj said:


> Racing Ray and Racing Ralph coming up in 2.35:
> 
> https://r2-bike.com/SCHWALBE-Tire-Racing-Ray-29-x-235-ADDIX-SpeedGrip-EVO-SnakeSkin-TLE-2020
> https://r2-bike.com/SCHWALBE-Tire-Racing-Ralph-29-x-235-ADDIX-Speed-EVO-SnakeSkin-TLE-2020
> ...


i just ordered 2.25s despite thinking a bit more width might be nice 
however at 625g 2.25, 770g 2.35 that is 145g for .1" which seems like a poor tradeoff

nothing on the schwalbe website to confirm details

will watch with interest...


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## pk1 (Mar 25, 2010)

pk1 said:


> i just ordered 2.25s despite thinking a bit more width might be nice
> however at 625g 2.25, 770g 2.35 that is 145g for .1" which seems like a poor tradeoff
> 
> nothing on the schwalbe website to confirm details
> ...


now confirmed at https://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/racing-ray.html 
770g for 29 x 2.35 

maybe i'm being too much of a weight weenie but that just doesn't seem like a good tradeoff, especially when people like LMN have commented that a 2.0 with an insert rides better than a 2.2 without - plenty of insert options <145g


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## Dave1078 (Oct 1, 2007)

pk1 said:


> now confirmed at https://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/racing-ray.html
> 770g for 29 x 2.35
> 
> maybe i'm being too much of a weight weenie but that just doesn't seem like a good tradeoff, especially when people like LMN have commented that a 2.0 with an insert rides better than a 2.2 without - plenty of insert options <145g


Huh... I wonder if the 2.35 is significantly higher volume/larger tread over the 2.2 for that extra heft.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

Love the Forekaster/Rekon combo!

Forekaster 2,35 on the front 25 mm rim - 2,29 actual size 
Rekon 2,25 rear - 2,23


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## mackdhagen (Jun 17, 2011)

Heist30 said:


> https://www.vittoria.com/us/


Just used the barzo's in a 2.35x29 and loved 'em..they are a touch on the heavy side and felt the heft (700+ grams is a bit much..or could've been my fitness) but still they were nice and sticky. did a 100 marathon race in super wet conditions and they shed dirt really well (worried about that looking at their tread pattern) and held up to some really rocky east coast (US) conditions. 
This was my first time stearing away from a schwable RaRa's and RoRo's which i used to be just sold on and glad i experimented...Wish they were lighter but still a solid XC race tire


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## MrEconomics (Aug 23, 2004)

pk1 said:


> now confirmed at https://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/racing-ray.html
> 770g for 29 x 2.35
> 
> maybe i'm being too much of a weight weenie but that just doesn't seem like a good tradeoff, especially when people like LMN have commented that a 2.0 with an insert rides better than a 2.2 without - plenty of insert options <145g


This summer I took off my RR tires and weighed them. They were 720 each. That was the end of those tires. I'm now on spesh s-works renegade on the front and fastrak on the back. The front Renegade is 2.3 but she slides a lot, even on hardpack. I bet it's a 1-2 inch slide I need to account for in my turn. Took a long time to get use to it. The RR corned awesome but 720 is way too heavy.


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## hesitationpoint (Aug 11, 2017)

MrEconomics said:


> This summer I took off my RR tires and hi toweighed them. They were 720 each. That was the end of those tires. I'm now on spesh s-works renegade on the front and fastrak on the back. The front Renegade is 2.3 but she slides a lot, even on hardpack. I bet it's a 1-2 inch slide I need to account for in my turn. Took a long time to get use to it. The RR corned awesome but 720 is way too heavy.


Out of curiosity, why do you run a Renegade in the front and the FT in the back? I'd be nervous if I was consistently getting front wheel drift though it wouldn't bother me on the rear.


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## MNSnoPro (Mar 1, 2016)

Anyone heard when the new Aspen that Nino was running this year will hit the market?


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Got a new Fast Trak with the transparent sidewalls. 29x2.3 Weight was right at the claimed weight of 640g.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I just got some dual compound Forekaster 29x2.2s for next spring. I keep 2 bikes, the fs bike is for dry, and the old hardtail is mud/B bike, so the forekasters are going on the B/mud bike, weights range from 638 to 664 (with hangtag and zip tie). I just weighed an Ardent Race 2.35 I had on that bike last year, 784g...
I just got my new carbon wheels from my team shop (1425g, 200g less than previous), and I'm looking at saving some tire weight on that bike too. I'm leaning towards 2.25 Barzos for the fs bike; real tread/sidewall and reasonably light.


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## jdcowboy (May 25, 2004)

I have three rides in on my new Pivot Mach 4SL. Very nice. It has Ardent Race 2.2 tires front and rear. The front seems to grab well and hold lines but the rear spins out too easy on technical climbs. Just when I stand to get over the ledge, the tire spins out. I weigh about 160 and run the tires at 23lbs front and 24lbs rear. Had Mavic Crossmarks on the back of my previous bike and had no such problems. What's a good rear race tire in 2.2 to 2.35 size for So Cal loose over hardpack?


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

jdcowboy said:


> I have three rides in on my new Pivot Mach 4SL. Very nice. It has Ardent Race 2.2 tires front and rear. The front seems to grab well and hold lines but the rear spins out too easy on technical climbs. Just when I stand to get over the ledge, the tire spins out. I weigh about 160 and run the tires at 23lbs front and 24lbs rear. Had Mavic Crossmarks on the back of my previous bike and had no such problems. What's a good rear race tire in 2.2 to 2.35 size for So Cal loose over hardpack?


 I'd try the Vittoria Barzo.
I didn't find the 2.35 AR to be bad as a rear, but it's a bit heavy (784g), I raced it in some muddy events last spring and it was ok. I think you might want just a bit less pressure. I used an old Crossmark for summer fun riding, I was surprised how good it gripped for climbing.


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

jdcowboy said:


> I have three rides in on my new Pivot Mach 4SL. Very nice. It has Ardent Race 2.2 tires front and rear. The front seems to grab well and hold lines but the rear spins out too easy on technical climbs. Just when I stand to get over the ledge, the tire spins out. I weigh about 160 and run the tires at 23lbs front and 24lbs rear. Had Mavic Crossmarks on the back of my previous bike and had no such problems. What's a good rear race tire in 2.2 to 2.35 size for So Cal loose over hardpack?


I ride in similar conditions. I like the Forekaster out back when I'm losing grip.


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## Mucker (Feb 14, 2004)

jdcowboy said:


> I have three rides in on my new Pivot Mach 4SL. Very nice. It has Ardent Race 2.2 tires front and rear. The front seems to grab well and hold lines but the rear spins out too easy on technical climbs. Just when I stand to get over the ledge, the tire spins out. I weigh about 160 and run the tires at 23lbs front and 24lbs rear. Had Mavic Crossmarks on the back of my previous bike and had no such problems. What's a good rear race tire in 2.2 to 2.35 size for So Cal loose over hardpack?


Try dropping the pressure before looking at new tires. I have a Mach 4SL as well and I weigh a little more than you and run 20 front and 22 rear in Icons 2.2 and 19 to 21 in Aspens 2.25. I ride some pretty rocky terrain and haven't had issues with rim strikes.


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## jdcowboy (May 25, 2004)

Mucker said:


> Try dropping the pressure before looking at new tires. I have a Mach 4SL as well and I weigh a little more than you and run 20 front and 22 rear in Icons 2.2 and 19 to 21 in Aspens 2.25. I ride some pretty rocky terrain and haven't had issues with rim strikes.


Thanks. I'll do that.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm narrowing down my choice for next early season (starts in late January near Seattle), and wouldn't mind some input from you guys. I'm using my hardtail as the 'wet' bike again, if it's going to be rainy I'm bring that, damp or dry I'll bring the fs bike, and that's the one I'm choosing tires for. I recently had the wheels rebuilt with carbon rims, they weren't a bad weight, but the new build saved 200g on the rims(!). Last year I used Mezcals, I was really happy with those, but if I go to a lighter tire I can save over 500g on the rims&tires from last season, which should have a real effect. 
I'm mostly looking at the Maxxis Aspen, and Rocket Ron, neither with heavier sidewalls, - I don't encounter a lot of sharp rocks. Aspen looks to be a little under 600g, RocketRon a little over, but with more 'substantial' tread. I probably couldn't go wrong with either. Thoughts?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

The Rocket Ron would probably provide cornering grip more in line with the Mezcals. I don't mind mixing and maxing brands so you might like the Aspen rear and Rocket Ron on the front. I just don't think I have the skills to corner well with the Aspen on the front. Right now on my old hardtail I have a 2.25 Nobby Nic on the front and a 2.25 Aspen on the rear and that combination worked well for me. 

My new hardtail came with 2.3 Fast Trak Controls on 25 inner width rims and they really hook up well but I'm tempted to get a 2.3 Renegade Control for the rear and see if it will roll a little faster than the Fast Trak.


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

daveinaus said:


> I'm tossing up whether to run it front or rear. It seems some of the pros have run it as a front as well but it would depend on the particular course i suppose. I might start with it on the rear and and Aspen up front see how it that goes goes. Aspen front and rear might end up being the best compromise as noted above but I am curious to try something new.


Ended up deciding to go with Aspens Front and Rear (2.25). I kinda expected the Aspen to be a little bit skittish on the front, especially in loose over hard conditions, but it hooks up really nicely. Had one of my best results of the season last weekend on a highly technical, rocky and loose trail and they performed flawlessly. I don't think I have lost any cornering speed at all compared to the Ardent Race I took off.

I think it comes down to the side knobs being quite pronounced even though the centre knobs are relatively small. When you look at the tyre it really doesn't look like its going to hook up at all but then it just does. You quickly forget all about the fact that its supposed to be a fast rolling/low grip tyre and get on the with business of riding.

I originally put it on the front in anticipation of a stage race I have next week but I think Ill just leave it on for XCO racing as well.


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## WRXJIM (May 21, 2019)

daveinaus said:


> Ended up deciding to go with Aspens Front and Rear (2.25). I kinda expected the Aspen to be a little bit skittish on the front,....
> 
> ...
> 
> I originally put it on the front in anticipation of a stage race I have next week but I think Ill just leave it on for XCO racing as well.


They are my "go to" race tyre. They are amazing. I run very low pressures and they just get grippier. The only surface I have noticed a grip issue on is wet grass and trying to stop in a straight line.


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

Straight line traction isn't so much an issue for me but it depends on the rider/terrain I guess. I'd add extremely steep (20%+) sandy/deep gravel climbs as another "weakness" but its got to be pretty loose to break traction. Most XC tyres are going to struggle in those conditions anyway though. They really are pretty hard to fault IMO.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Vittoria.com


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> The Rocket Ron would probably provide cornering grip more in line with the Mezcals. I don't mind mixing and maxing brands so you might like the Aspen rear and Rocket Ron on the front. I just don't think I have the skills to corner well with the Aspen on the front. Right now on my old hardtail I have a 2.25 Nobby Nic on the front and a 2.25 Aspen on the rear and that combination worked well for me.
> 
> My new hardtail came with 2.3 Fast Trak Controls on 25 inner width rims and they really hook up well but I'm tempted to get a 2.3 Renegade Control for the rear and see if it will roll a little faster than the Fast Trak.


Curious how the volume of Fast Trak 2.3 compares to nobby nic and/or rocket ron 2.25. I have rons 2.25 front and rear but would like something a bit larger for front without too much weight penalty


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I've had a 2.25 Nobby Nic up front and I think the 2.3 Fast Trak corners a little better and it weighs less. Now if you're riding in mud, then the Nobby Nic would probably be better. I'd also think the Fast Trak would hold in the turns better than the Rocket Ron but I haven't ridden on a RoRo in years.


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

Thanks for reply


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Just don't go near a FastTrak Grid.
The sidewalls are WAY too stiff.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> Just don't go near a FastTrak Grid.
> The sidewalls are WAY too stiff.


Mine are the Fast Trak Control 2Bliss 2.3...decent weight for the volume. Definitely more volume than a 2.25 Nobby Nic or Rocket Ron.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/fast-trak-control-2bliss-ready/p/173635?color=272242-173635


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## vtsteevo (Jan 19, 2010)

My new XC bike came with Rekon Race 2.35 front and rear. Way too heavy. I am thinking about leaving it up front and going with another tire in the back (2.2-2.25). What would you guys suggest for the rear, that would roll better then the rekon race 2.35 and be lighter? Thinking either aspen 2.25 (640g), or the 2.25 rekon race (670g).


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I like the Aspen 2.25 as a rear tire. It rolls better than the Rekon Race (according to bicyclerollingresistance.com) and grips surprisingly well.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

I ran Mezcals 29 x 2.35 Anthracite all year and thought they were amazing for XC. They allowed me to run low pressures 18/20 psi weighing 170 lbs which provided great grip compared to running 2.25 in 2018 season. I also ran them for the Marji Gesick 💯 and never thought I needed anything more. My only minor complaint was the weight, a little heavy at 728 and 720 grams. 

Just ordered a new pair for 2020 as Vittoria was running a sale and these came in weighing 704 and 706 grams for the 29 x 2.35 set. If you’re in the Midwest I can’t recommend a better tire. I’ve tried Aspen, Barzo, Recon Race and Ikons, but Mezcals remain my favorite and the 2.35 is even better.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

I recently put Vittoria Peyotes (Graphene 2.0, 29x2.25 tanwall) on my Blur after a summer of riding Aspens and Rekon Races. After 5 rides I think these these are the keepers for me. Same weight class (670g on the nose on my scale), they feel just as fast and my climb times show same, but descents are a bit faster and more confidence inspiring. They measure 2.3 on 25mm internal width rims after a week, 22 psi. They seal up well, they look great too!


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## johnnyrmxd (Nov 23, 2014)

I loved Vittoria Mezcal's a few years ago when they were still called GEAX Mezcal. I used to run 29X2.1" folding version for tubes, but without tubes. They were light (slightly over 500g), grippy and fast rolling, they lasted for ages, and did not loose pressure. They were even relatively cheap. The only downside was that the only way to make them sit on my XT m785 tubeless ready wheels, I needed to use big-ass compressor in my local car tire shop. I was soooooo dissapointed when they changed them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

MattMay said:


> I recently put Vittoria Peyotes (Graphene 2.0, 29x2.25 tanwall) on my Blur after a summer of riding Aspens and Rekon Races. After 5 rides I think these these are the keepers for me. Same weight class (670g on the nose on my scale), they feel just as fast and my climb times show same, but descents are a bit faster and more confidence inspiring. They measure 2.3 on 25mm internal width rims after a week, 22 psi. They seal up well, they look great too!


+1 On the Peyote on the Front, Was running Schwalbe Rocket Ron Snake Skin 2.25 Addix Speed Front and Maxxis Rekon Race 2.25on the Rear was my goto for most of the rear.

Then I went through the Vittoria line up all Tan wall XC Race Casing 2.25"
2.25 Barzo in the Front very similar to the RoRo, Mezcal Both Front and Rear, Terreno Rear

I'm in Minnesota so here's what I ended up with;

Hard Pack/ Loose over Hard Pack 
Front 1. Mezcal(671 g/ 59mm) 2. Peyote (670g / 57mm) 3. Rocket Ron(623 g/ 57mm) 4. Barzo (684g/55mm)
Rear 1. Terreno (690g/58.5mm) 2. Rekon Race non exc (618g/57mm) 4. Mezcal if I needed more Braking Traction 5. S works Rennegade(543g /58mm) 6. Michelin Jet X 
2.25 (610g/60.5mm)

Looser / Sandy conditions 
Front 1. Peyote 2. Rocket Ron 3. Barzo 4, Mezcal
Rear 1 . Mezcal, 2. 2015 Rocket Ron 2.25 Pace Star Lite Skin(564g/57mm), Terreno and Rekon Race

I am 200# Top 10 Citizen Class, then moved to Sport Cyldesdale class, Not super fast but not real slow
Mounted on Dt Swiss XR 391 ( same as used on XR 1501 wheel set) 25mm I
or Stans Arch 26mm I

So after all this my day in day out set up is know Peyote Front and if its dry Terreno , damp or Sandy Mezcal this is after years as a Schwalbe Guy.

Love the Vittoria Tires and how the side walls feel

run 22-23 Front and 24.5 to 26 psi Rear.

Had the Run 22 psi in the Barzo to get it to hook up as well as the Rocket Rons

Overall for what I ride I like the Peyote up Front, better than Rocket Ron and Barzo

Hope That Helps !


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## Tristan Wolf (Oct 21, 2019)

For dry conditions XC - front: Vittoria mezcal 29X2.25 TLR, back: Schwalbe Thunder Burt 29X2.10 snake skin.
In do not ride in muddy at all cause I’m a bit of the spoiled hobby guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

For those running Vittoria I see some are running non TNT sidewall protection....how are the sidewalls without it?


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## Tristan Wolf (Oct 21, 2019)

Unbrockenchain said:


> For those running Vittoria I see some are running non TNT sidewall protection....how are the sidewalls without it?


Pretty decent (no defect so far after thousands of km), but keep in mind I ride XC, not enduro or rock gardens. Also I avoid highly technical stuff, but because of my lack of skills, not out of fear for tires.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vizionx (Oct 22, 2019)

Thanks a lot for this post ! Was looking for this info, for ages currently riding with a Vittoria Mezcal G2 tan/wall (2.25) at the front , Terreno G2 tan/wall (2.1) at the rear, did notice that the Mezcal is not so keen on, looser/sandy conditions so I was searching for info what to put at the front, I think that's going to be the, Peyote now before a Barzo.


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## Vizionx (Oct 22, 2019)

Spin Cycle said:


> +1 On the Peyote on the Front, Was running Schwalbe Rocket Ron Snake Skin 2.25 Addix Speed Front and Maxxis Rekon Race 2.25on the Rear was my goto for most of the rear.
> 
> Then I went through the Vittoria line up all Tan wall XC Race Casing 2.25"
> 2.25 Barzo in the Front very similar to the RoRo, Mezcal Both Front and Rear, Terreno Rear
> ...


Thanks a lot for this post ! Was looking for this info, for ages currently riding with a Vittoria Mezcal G2 tan/wall (2.25) at the front , Terreno G2 tan/wall (2.1) at the rear, did notice that the Mezcal is not so keen on, looser/sandy conditions so I was searching for info what to put at the front, I think that's going to be the, Peyote now before a Barzo.


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

Unbrockenchain said:


> For those running Vittoria I see some are running non TNT sidewall protection....how are the sidewalls without it?


I Live in the Midwest not a lot of Rock Gardens, but no issues with the XC Race Tan sidewall Vittoria's , the last sidewall I cut was a Continental Race King Race Sport Casing


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Just went back to the Butcher/Purgatory (grid) combo.
At 20f/22r psi they felt more compliant than the Fast Trak Grids at 17f/19r psi.
Far draggier than the Ground Controls, but more front end confidence.

Would like to compare with non-grid Fast Trak's, Butchers and Purgatories.


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## jtc1 (Apr 13, 2004)

I have been running Schwalbe tires forever and think the Rocket Ron' in the Liteskin 2.25 weight in at 575 on average, are about as good as it gets for XC race. the ULTIMATE XC tire would be is they made the same tire in a 2.35 version at around 620 grams. We can hope!!!


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## vtsteevo (Jan 19, 2010)

Ended up doing with this. 2.25 Aspen on the back, 2.35 Rekon Race on the front. It's solid. The aspen rolls really well. It came in at 670g vs the 645 advertised.

For the front, after a few rides with the 2.35 Rekon race, I don't know if I'll ever go back to a 2.25 Racing Ray that i was running. Yes there is a weight difference, but (for me) the rekon race with the added volume corners so much faster. I can tell I am working a bit more up the hill, but really smooth everywhere else. FYI, my Rekon Race 2.35 came in at 710g.

Looking at the posts over the last week, maybe ill try some Vittoria tires next year!



Stonerider said:


> I like the Aspen 2.25 as a rear tire. It rolls better than the Rekon Race (according to bicyclerollingresistance.com) and grips surprisingly well.


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

I would like to see volume of Rekon Race 2.35 vs Fast Trak 2.3 as there is a significant weight penalty with Rekon Race


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## vtsteevo (Jan 19, 2010)

Just measured rekon race 2.35 at at 58.8mm at 20 psi. Any idea on the fast track?



Unbrockenchain said:


> I would like to see volume of Rekon Race 2.35 vs Fast Trak 2.3 as there is a significant weight penalty with Rekon Race


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

vtsteevo said:


> Just measured rekon race 2.35 at at 58.8mm at 20 psi. Any idea on the fast track?


Nice. Seems Ikon-ish in size. Good to know.

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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

For the fast tracks 2.3

40# initial=61mm on 25mm internal, 24hr 22psi=60mm

Evolution Training Cycles


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## Vin829 (Mar 29, 2019)

I have a Rekon Race for the rear and. Forkaster Up front. On loose over hard trails I’m finding my rear slipping out on technical climbs. I’m also at 27 psi in the rear. I’m 160lbs. Wondering if it’s too high of a pressure? Just worried at lower pressure it increases rolling resistance


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Lower pressures decreases offroad rolling resistance. I know it sounds counter-intuitive but the idea is you want more suppleness so the tires conform to roots, rocks, bumps etc instead of bouncing off of them.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

At 190 I run 27 psi as my "I don't want to worry about my rear tire" pressure.

I would experiment with lower pressurea.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Vin829 said:


> Just worried at lower pressure it increases rolling resistance


About 5 psi too high I'd bet. Like midwestmtb said, lower pressure, lower resistance. So you have it backwards.


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## Vin829 (Mar 29, 2019)

MattMay said:


> About 5 psi too high I'd bet. Like midwestmtb said, lower pressure, lower resistance. So you have it backwards.


I will try about 22psi in the rear see how that feels. I would think a softer tire would just feel sluggish. I'm glad I have it backward so I have something to try without a penalty


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Vin829 said:


> I have a Rekon Race for the rear and. Forkaster Up front. On loose over hard trails I'm finding my rear slipping out on technical climbs. I'm also at 27 psi in the rear. I'm 160lbs. Wondering if it's too high of a pressure? Just worried at lower pressure it increases rolling resistance


I'm 160 pounds also and run 20psi in the rear of my 2.3 Fast Trak Control. I run 18 in the front. This is on 25 internal width rims.


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## hesitationpoint (Aug 11, 2017)

I also weigh about 165 geared up and I can't avoid rim strikes below 24 psi. How do you guys run such low pressures? Tire inserts?

The casings I have used are Specialized control, Maxxis Exo, Continental Protection, and standard Bontrager XR 1.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

hesitationpoint said:


> I also weigh about 165 geared up and I can't avoid rim strikes below 24 psi. How do you guys run such low pressures? Tire inserts?
> 
> The casings I have used are Specialized control, Maxxis Exo, Continental Protection, and standard Bontrager XR 1.


try a different gauge.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I'm 140 (not geared up) and can't run less than 25. It's not the gauge (multiple gauges and several years). 

Anything less than 22ish is too squimy on hard riding. Less than 24ish risks rim strikes, for me. That's with 2.25/2.3 tires.


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## jdcowboy (May 25, 2004)

Vin829 said:


> I have a Rekon Race for the rear and. Forkaster Up front. On loose over hard trails I'm finding my rear slipping out on technical climbs. I'm also at 27 psi in the rear. I'm 160lbs. Wondering if it's too high of a pressure? Just worried at lower pressure it increases rolling resistance


I'm about 160 lbs too. I have Ardent Race tires front and rear. i was considering getting different tires because they were slipping out like you said, but I kept lowering the pressure down to 18 psi front and 20 rear. Now they are great. The sidewalls are fairly stiff IMO and the tire still feels pretty firm even at those low pressures. No issue with rim strikes. Still very fast.


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## bigboom (May 17, 2005)

Vin829 said:


> I have a Rekon Race for the rear and. Forkaster Up front. On loose over hard trails I'm finding my rear slipping out on technical climbs. I'm also at 27 psi in the rear. I'm 160lbs. Wondering if it's too high of a pressure? Just worried at lower pressure it increases rolling resistance


FWIW I'm 210 and I ride 25-26psi on 27mm internal rims using a 2.35 Rekon Race.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

hesitationpoint said:


> I also weigh about 165 geared up and I can't avoid rim strikes below 24 psi. How do you guys run such low pressures? Tire inserts?
> 
> The casings I have used are Specialized control, Maxxis Exo, Continental Protection, and standard Bontrager XR 1.


https://nsmb.com/articles/bontrager-line-comp-30-wheelset/
In this article he says 'I should note that the hard rim strikes happened running fairly light Bontrager XR4 2.4" tires. I've experienced very few notable strikes, and no damage, running the larger 2.6" version of the XR4 and not a scratch with the support and damping of the DH casing LG1r tires.
I'm not suggesting running DH tires for trail bike duties, but a larger volume tire that still rolls fairly quickly for it's grip-level, like the 2.6" XR4 or SE4, is a win for rim survivability if it clears inside the frame.'

https://noblwheels.com/blog/mtb-tire-pressure-run/
This articles says all the variables, Tire Size and Type, Rim Width and Diameter, Rider Weight, Terrain, Ride Style influence the pressure that works for you and your bike. But the general rule remains Low Volume = Higher Pressure and High Volume = Lower Pressure. So conceivably a 2.35 tire on a 22.5id rim will require a higher pressure than the same tire on a 30id rim because of the volume.

For me at 160lb, 2.35 Mezcal on 29x30mm rim - 18psi, 2.2 Gato on 29x27mm rim - 22psi... when on my 22.5 wheelset they go 2 psi higher.


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Does someone know when maxxis is gonna release their Aspen 2.4 wt tire?

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## ira4ever76 (May 9, 2005)

Not sure i've seen this tire mentioned in this thread but it's worked very well for me and I feel compelled to share.

After going to Mezcal/Mezcal, then Mezcal/Barzo, then Ikon/Ardent set ups I've been happiest on a Kenda Booster (rear) and Forekaster (front).

That booster grips a ton on climbs, is predictable as to it's break away point and rolls quickly. 

Just thought i'd share my experiences from this year.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Anyone going to try the Vittoria Terrano? Looks maybe like a rekon race depending on how good the file tread is.

https://www.vittoria.com/us/terreno...GpO3Ri318g9PNF_D0j89-nU9nw91uGsUaAhs9EALw_wcB


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

cassieno said:


> Anyone going to try the Vittoria Terrano? Looks maybe like a rekon race depending on how good the file tread is.
> 
> https://www.vittoria.com/us/terreno...GpO3Ri318g9PNF_D0j89-nU9nw91uGsUaAhs9EALw_wcB


Go back about a month on this thread, I'm running the 2.25 XC Casing terreno, previously was using the rekon Race, Terreno has better side knob bite and as good of braking. Traction is equal on Hard pack. Feels Faster rolling and if compared to Mezcal that is 6 watts better than the Rekon Race I assume the terreno has better rolling resistance then the Mezcal


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

Tennessee here. Wanting better rolling for my mid travel cdale habit. Other suggestions welcome as well, but maxxis has been my preferred tire based on experience.

Considerations so far; anyone run these combos? 
F: recon
R: recon race

F: forecaster
R: recon

F + R: recon 

Currently running
F: DHF
R:high roller 2


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

cassieno said:


> Anyone going to try the Vittoria Terrano? Looks maybe like a rekon race depending on how good the file tread is.
> 
> https://www.vittoria.com/us/terreno...GpO3Ri318g9PNF_D0j89-nU9nw91uGsUaAhs9EALw_wcB


I've got one here in 2.25, a little disappointed in the weight as it's ~50g heavier than advertised. Mounted it up for a Short Track race that got scrubbed so never actually rode it yet, now up here in NW Arkansas I'm scared to run anything but the XC Trail casing so my XC Race Skinwalls sit for another day...probably mount them up for some gravel training miles, I figure it's a better Thunder Burt give or take.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

cassieno said:


> Anyone going to try the Vittoria Terrano? Looks maybe like a rekon race depending on how good the file tread is.
> 
> https://www.vittoria.com/us/terreno...GpO3Ri318g9PNF_D0j89-nU9nw91uGsUaAhs9EALw_wcB


That looks like a good option to use for gravel grinding on your MTB.


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

pinkpowa said:


> I've got one here in 2.25, a little disappointed in the weight as it's ~50g heavier than advertised. Mounted it up for a Short Track race that got scrubbed so never actually rode it yet, now up here in NW Arkansas I'm scared to run anything but the XC Trail casing so my XC Race Skinwalls sit for another day...probably mount them up for some gravel training miles, I figure it's a better Thunder Burt give or take.


My Terreno 2.25 XC casing (Tan Sidewall) was 690 grams vs listed 650 grams, about to Try a Thunder Burt today, found it cheap on eBay $26 but was the 2.1 Liteskin Measured 53mm on 25mm I rim Weight 450 Grams


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

J Hartman said:


> Tennessee here. Wanting better rolling for my mid travel cdale habit. Other suggestions welcome as well, but maxxis has been my preferred tire based on experience.
> 
> Considerations so far; anyone run these combos?
> F: recon
> ...


I'm on xr3 rear and xr4 front. It's a pretty strong combination that is faster than minions.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

J Hartman said:


> Tennessee here. Wanting better rolling for my mid travel cdale habit. Other suggestions welcome as well, but maxxis has been my preferred tire ....2


Thread is XC race but since you ask, Vittoria Agarro is a new trail tire worth checkin out... fast and grippy


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

2 weeks ago was hellish muddy and wet with Butcher Grid front and Purgatory Grid rear.
Tomorrow will be hellish dry with worn Ground Control's front and rear for a bit faster rolling.
Well, a lot faster rolling. And a lot more supple too without the Grid casing.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Does anyone have any experience comparing the rolling resistance of the newest Renegade Control 29 x 2.3 with the Fast Trak Control 2.3? My 2020 Epic Hardtail came with the Fast Trak Control 2.3 front and rear and I really like the grip the tires provide on my local XC trails but was wondering if I might get a little boost in straight line speed if I replaced the rear Fast Trak with the Renegade 2.3. Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Someone had posted some rolling resistance data in the Wheel and Tire forum from a german magazine and I recall that the FT and Renegade were almost identical. But these were not for the latest Control versions, though they were Griptons. I'm definitely interested in the new Control Renegade. 600 grams for 29x2.3


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Noone has some good news about the 2.4inch maxxis aspen tires?

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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Does anyone have any experience comparing the rolling resistance of the newest Renegade Control 29 x 2.3 with the Fast Trak Control 2.3? My 2020 Epic Hardtail came with the Fast Trak Control 2.3 front and rear and I really like the grip the tires provide on my local XC trails but was wondering if I might get a little boost in straight line speed if I replaced the rear Fast Trak with the Renegade 2.3. Thanks in advance for any advice.


I think they'd roll a little faster on hard pack and climb a little better with more square edges.
The winner of yesterdays XC race on hard pack decomposed granite sandy trails was running a carbon hard tail, carbon 30mm rims and 2.3 Renegade Controls at 32psi!
It was his local track and that's what he's found to work best for him there.
A few stretches of roots, but the rest was quite smooth and there were more than a few chances of burping a tyre or rolling the bead in g-outs.

He was faster than me (2.3 Ground Control Control's @18f/20r psi) and that must have been the tyres otherwise there's no way he could have lapped me...


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> The winner of yesterdays XC race on hard pack decomposed granite sandy trails was running a carbon hard tail, carbon 30mm rims and 2.3 Renegade Controls at 32psi!


32psi! What does this guy weigh? I weigh 160 and have been running my new 2.3 Fast Trak Controls at 18psi front and 20psi rear on 25mm internal carbon rims.

I just got a 2.3 Renegade Control mounted up on the rear and it LOOKS FAST! Unfortunately the weather hasn't cooperated so I haven't been able to try it out on my local trails. I'll report back once I try it out.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

He weighed 150 or so. Said there was no way he could run those pressures anywhere else.
It's a weird track composition that seems to favour micro knobbed tyres.
One of the top guys was running a virtually bald Thunder Burt on the rear. Could just feel the knobs when I ran my finger down the tyre, couldn't see them. The compound felt like warm chewing gum.
Several others were running Thunder Burts front and rear.
Low rolling resistance, but grip when leaned over and railing through corners where us lesser mortals have been dragging the brakes and pulling a layer of grit into the middle of the corner.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Stonerider said:


> 32psi! What does this guy weigh? I weigh 160 and have been running my new 2.3 Fast Trak Controls at 18psi front and 20psi rear on 25mm internal carbon rims.
> 
> I just got a 2.3 Renegade Control mounted up on the rear and it LOOKS FAST! Unfortunately the weather hasn't cooperated so I haven't been able to try it out on my local trails. I'll report back once I try it out.


Did you weigh those Renegade controls before mounting? I'm curious if they came in anywhere close to the claimed 600.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Waiting to try these out.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

midwestmtb said:


> Did you weigh those Renegade controls before mounting? I'm curious if they came in anywhere close to the claimed 600.


I didn't have any scales handy so I didn't weigh it. It did feel lighter in hand than the 2.3 Fast Trak Control I took off but the Fast Trak had a little layer of Orange Seal in it.


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Zerort said:


> View attachment 1294909
> 
> Waiting to try these out.


Are those tires 2.35?

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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

Zerort said:


> View attachment 1294909
> 
> Waiting to try these out.


Love this bike. Didn't you have a McLeod on it before? Switched back to the fox?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

midwestmtb said:


> Did you weigh those Renegade controls before mounting? I'm curious if they came in anywhere close to the claimed 600.


Specialized 2019 Fast Trak 2 Bliss 29 x 2.1 665 grams
Specialized 2019 Fast Trak 2 Bliss 29 x 2.3 661 grams
Specialized 2019 S Works Renegade 2 Bliss 29 x 2.3 543 grams

I work at Bike shop and had weight the Fast Traks, Used the S works renegade, Too round of Profile on 25mm internal rim width would slide out as it has small side knobs, using Vittoria Terreno 2.25 57mm/690g and Just Tried 2.1 Lite Skin Thunder Burt54mm/ 450g Love the Thunder Burt , then the Terreno over Maxxis Rekon Race 57mm/618 g


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Spin Cycle said:


> Specialized 2019 Fast Trak 2 Bliss 29 x 2.1 665 grams
> Specialized 2019 Fast Trak 2 Bliss 29 x 2.3 661 grams
> Specialized 2019 S Works Renegade 2 Bliss 29 x 2.3 543 grams
> 
> I work at Bike shop and had weight the Fast Traks, Used the S works renegade, Too round of Profile on 25mm internal rim width would slide out as it has small side knobs, using Vittoria Terreno 2.25 57mm/690g and Just Tried 2.1 Lite Skin Thunder Burt54mm/ 450g Love the Thunder Burt , then the Terreno over Maxxis Rekon Race 57mm/618 g


I believe the knobs on the new Renegade Control 2.3 are larger than the knobs on the S Works version. But I'm certain you pay for that extra grip with increased weight and increased rolling resistance. But I'm ok with that. I just wanted something just a bit faster rolling and lighter than the Fast Trak Control.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

G-Choro said:


> Love this bike. Didn't you have a McLeod on it before? Switched back to the fox?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Thanks for the compliment.

Yes, I use the Mcleod to enjoy the bike with a plusher ride, and for training purposes all summer. When and if I do a race, I switch to the Fox for the lock-out functionality.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Here are some weights for the S-works Renegade and Fast Trak


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

JasperGr said:


> Are those tires 2.35?
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G973F met Tapatalk


2.25


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

How are the Specialized 2.3s measuring up these days? When the new Gripton tires came out the 2.3s were really undersized.

Have they fixed that?


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> How are the Specialized 2.3s measuring up these days? When the new Gripton tires came out the 2.3s were really undersized.
> 
> Have they fixed that?


No.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Zerort said:


> No.


I see.

I guess I'll have to keep going with Maxxis and Vittoria here, then. I've been pretty happy with the Ikon/Rekon Race 2.35 combo of late. Vittorias are a pretty good bet for our local terrain as well.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> How are the Specialized 2.3s measuring up these days? When the new Gripton tires came out the 2.3s were really undersized.
> 
> Have they fixed that?


The 2.3 Fast Trak and Renegade Controls are taller/wider than the 2.25 Nobby Nic and 2.25 Maxxis Aspen they are replacing for me. So what are we comparing them to? Is it as big as a 2.35 Ikon...no but it's not advertised as a 2.35...just 2.3.


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## PDXooo (Nov 21, 2019)

solarplex said:


> I was just going to post on this haha.
> 
> Im finding my xr2 2.2 squirms in the hard corners. Also my trails are like packed clay you can ride cx bikes on. Just when i leave the province i could put the big volumes on for rocks and such.
> 
> ...


Good day...

How do your XR2s compare to say, Rocket Rons?

Thanks...


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Dave1078 said:


> This is good info. I'm running the newer Hans Dampf 2.35 front and a rock razor 2.35 rear on my sb100. It's a fairly fast combo, but I am always wondering if I could get away with less tire. Especially lighter.


 The Hans isn't any lighter or faster rolling then a Magic Mary.
I started out Hans/Ralph but I was uncomfortable with the Hans since it's designed to have some drift to it.

So I ordered a Mary because if I have that tire on the front I know I can push hard and I know what it's going to do.

Did try the Hans on the rear for a ride it is a fun tire great braking/climbing traction. It also breaks away in a very pleasing manner shooting rooster tails when drifting if that's your thing.

I'm thinking about trying the Racing Ray now that it is available in 2.35. I just haven't ridden anything but Mary on the front in 3 years in that time my front has washed out zero times.


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

For Vitoria fans...would a Barzo be a better front tire vs Mezcal? Tread patter looks similar to Racing Ray


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Unbrockenchain said:


> For Vitoria fans...would a Barzo be a better front tire vs Mezcal? Tread patter looks similar to Racing Ray


Yes. Particularly if you encounter wet...anything.

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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

Unbrockenchain said:


> For Vitoria fans...would a Barzo be a better front tire vs Mezcal? Tread patter looks similar to Racing Ray


I really liked both, like Le Duke said the Barzo is a better mud tire with the more open tread, but Mezcal will do a little wet just fine: wet and sandy I think you'd be fine with the Mezcal, but if it's at all sticky and will clog up your tread a more open tread (Barzo) would be better. 
I had great luck with Barzo, Mezcal, and the Peyote, but all are a bit heavy, so I'm considering lighter options for our early series that starts in about 8 weeks.
The Mezcal feels so very fast to me, I did 2 CX races this fall on my hardtail with Mezcal fr and Peyote rear, a lot of grass, some pavement, looser gravel, and hardpack, that was a fast combo on all surfaces, which is why despite the higher weight of the Vittorias, I'm having a bit of a hard time trying something else. My fs bike is my 'dry' bike, and if I do stay with Vittoria it will be Mezcal fr and rr.

Vittorias are 25% off (expires 12/2) from their website.

Anyone using 2.1s? It seems most racers are using 2.25s or bigger, for smoother trails, or even mud, it seems like maybe 2.1s might not be a bad choice?


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

Vittoria weights are kind of strange. The 2.25s (mezcal, barzo) are quite heavier compared to Schwalbe (Ray, Ralph) but the 2.35s are quite lighter than ray or Ralph. The Ray goes from like 625 grams with snakeskin in 2.25 to 770 in the 2.35


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/mtb-reviews

Mezcal 28 watts Barzo 30 watts new tests


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

The Vittoria 2.25s and 2.35s are basically the same size. You might get 2mm more out of a 2.35.

Whereas with an Ikon 2.35 or Rekon Race 2.35, it's a significantly bigger tire than the 2.2/2.25 version of the same tread.

If going with a 2.25, Vittoria is true to size if not slightly larger, IME, and bigger than Maxxis in 2.2/2.25.


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

Actual Vittoria weights:
Barzo 
2.25 XC Race casing 684 g
2.25 XC Trail Casing 735 grams
2.35 XC Trail Casing 735 grams

Mezcal 
2.25 XC Race Casing 671 grams

Peyote 
2.25 XC Race Casing 670 grams

Terreno
2.25 XC Race Casing 690 grams


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Isn't this thread about XC Race tires?

Why is anyone putting XC Race tires on their bike that weigh more than 650 grams?

Rocket Rons, which are one of the fastest tires on the market weigh between 550g and 590 grams for 2.25. They also perform in the damp, dry, leaves, wet roots, wet, and rocks.

Are you putting these fat ass Vittoria tires on to "race" or just ride your bike around?

And if so, where is it that you are racing that you need a heavier tire (by 100 grams) versus a lighter tire?

Please tell me what I am missing.

And, I've had a Barzo and Peyote. Nothing special at all. Here is a picture of that junk on my SS.


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## PDXooo (Nov 21, 2019)

Zerort said:


> Isn't this thread about XC Race tires?
> 
> Why is anyone putting XC Race tires on their bike that weigh more than 650 grams?
> 
> ...


"Fat ass?" LOL!!! #RocketRonPurist

Anyways what can you say about Bontrager XR2s? I am considering them instead of Rocket Rons & would like an idea of how\if they match up...


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

Zerort said:


> Isn't this thread about XC Race tires?
> 
> Why is anyone putting XC Race tires on their bike that weigh more than 650 grams?
> 
> ...


Northwest Arkansas trails makes mincemeat out of Schwable XC tires. Poor puncture protection and fast wearing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

tgoods said:


> Northwest Arkansas trails makes mincemeat out of Schwable XC tires. Poor puncture protection and fast wearing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not the snakeskin versions.

Still lighter than those Vittorias.

But ride.....errr race whatever you want.


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

Rocket ron snakeskin 2.25 are light but not under 600 grams.


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## Rist (Oct 15, 2009)

Rocket Ron snakeskins are paper tyres compared to Vittoria Mezcal TNT-s. With SnakeSkin Rocket Rons I've had a lot of punctures (some fatal, requiring inserting a tube), they burp too easily when running low pressure and cornering aggressively. Two seasons of racing with single pair Mezcals - 0 punctures, 0 burps, all while running lower pressure than Rocket Rons would allow on the same rims. Screw the weight, I've lost more time on Rocket Rons with all the issues they have and just having general lack of confidence when riding on difficult terrain than I've lost by running heavier Mezcals. I absoloutely can count on my Mezcals to do their job and not **** up my race.
Unless it's mudfest, then it's game over


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

Zerort said:


> Not the snakeskin versions.
> 
> Still lighter than those Vittorias.
> 
> But ride.....errr race whatever you want.


I have destroyed several snakeskin tires on these trails. The rubber compound is very soft (which I'm sure aids in traction). Pop a new tire on, go for a 30 mile ride (or race since you are particular) on the Back 40 and inspect the tire afterwards. You will see noticeable wear on the lugs and lots of nicks and scrapes.

However I will say I love the 24" Rocket Ron for my son's bike. He runs those at 15 psi and hasn't had a single issue all year. I think the softer compound is perfect for his 60# weight.

I think Schwable makes a very high performance race tire for the right course conditions; they just haven't worked for me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

tgoods said:


> Pop a new tire on, go for a 30 ride (or race since you are particular) and inspect the tire afterwards. You will see noticeable wear on the lugs and lots of nicks and scrapes./QUOTE]
> 
> Please rename this thread:
> 
> ...


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

tgoods said:


> I have destroyed several snakeskin tires on these trails. The rubber compound is very soft (which I'm sure aids in traction). Pop a new tire on, go for a 30 mile ride (or race since you are particular) on the Back 40 and inspect the tire afterwards. You will see noticeable wear on the lugs and lots of nicks and scrapes.
> I think Schwable makes a very high performance race tire for the right course conditions; they just haven't worked for me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've got a Schwalbe Snakeskin Addix Speed from the parts bin I'll be putting on the back once this Vittoria gets worn down. Back 40 is my backyard loop, we'll see if it breaks my Schwalbe lifespan record of 400 miles before knob failure (doubt it). Had too many failures on Schwalbes to race them, though this will be the first of the new Addix compound so maybe it's better

Vittorias are taking an absolute beating and zero issues. Back 40, Fitzgerald blacks, Lake Leatherwood DH, Coler, Slaughter Pen, Lil Sugar, eating it up. Corner knob wear commensurate with the center knob wear on the rear, Front looks new after 450 miles. Casing taking some cuts but still rolling, moving to inserts and dropping 4# out of the tires probably helps.


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

Zerort said:


> tgoods said:
> 
> 
> > Pop a new tire on, go for a 30 ride (or race since you are particular) and inspect the tire afterwards. You will see noticeable wear on the lugs and lots of nicks and scrapes./QUOTE]
> ...


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Zerort said:


> Please rename this thread:
> 
> Tires I want to use all year and sometimes do a race on them.
> 
> ...


Good point. I might race Schwalbes if someone else was buying them then pitch em cause they're spent. Roll fast, grip is decent, weight is good. I just can't afford $180 per race. Came from racing cars, the days of shaved and heat cycled track tires are in the past for me. Not rich enough for that game, not fast enough for someone else to buy em for me.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Zerort said:


> Please tell me what I am missing.


I podiumed a race as a "local pro" using an 850+g Hans Dampf.

Light doesn't equal fast. Light equals light. If you flat, or can't carry any speed on a loose course, your fast fireroad climbing tires won't get you to the finish faster. I was dead last on the initial fireroad climb on that race.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

I guess I'm the lone Schwalbe fan boi. I run the brand exclusively. Have since I got back into bikes 6 years ago.

The only ones I had a problem with are the 1st Gen rocket Ron 2.8 snakeskin. I had constant snake bites and flats in the rear. 
Running a 2.1 racing Ralph on the rear of my 130mm trail bike. Just laid down the fastest time of the year on my favorite 7 mile loop. Trail just had a massive leaf drop. Inches of dry slick leaves in the corners and completely covered the knar.
Under those conditions I had the Ray come out from under me 1 time but I was still able to catch it. The Mary up front didn't didn't come loose once.

I ride to and from the trail 12 miles each way some gravel some asphalt and can't say they wear fast I get a good 8 months on them typically.

I am 140lbs and a smooth rider maybe that and the rear travel are the reason I'm getting more out of less?


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## PDXooo (Nov 21, 2019)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> I guess I'm the lone Schwalbe fan boi. I run the brand exclusively. Have since I got back into bikes 6 years ago.
> 
> The only ones I had a problem with are the 1st Gen rocket Ron 2.8 snakeskin. I had constant snake bites and flats in the rear.
> Running a 2.1 racing Ralph on the rear of my 130mm trail bike. Just laid down the fastest time of the year on my favorite 7 mile loop. Trail just had a massive leaf drop. Inches of dry slick leaves in the corners and completely covered the knar.
> ...


How soft is the Mary? (what does it feel like? how does it roll?)

I like Schwalbe & would like to use Marys, but I fear they may be too soft... What is the softest compound you'd advise for a rear tyre with tarmac use? (tarmac because I want tyres that can be use on roads as much as offroad)

Thanks...


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PDXooo said:


> How soft is the Mary? (what does it feel like? how does it roll?)
> 
> I like Schwalbe & would like to use Marys, but I fear they may be too soft... What is the softest compound you'd advise for a rear tyre with tarmac use? (tarmac because I want tyres that can be use on roads as much as offroad)
> 
> Thanks...


 I use the soft/orange addix Mary. To me it doesn't feel draggy and being on the front rolling resistance doesn't matter as much. I commute to work and ride to the trail head and the mm soft does surprisingly well.

As far as rear I wouldn't run a addix soft on the rear of anything that sees tarmac use. I stick to speed grip/speed compounds.

But ya Mm soft feels amazing the damping the way it feels on rocks etc is very addictive. I'm currently chasing xc/downcountry (don't flame  ) type koms and still won't let go of that Mary.

I may get desperate though and change out my ribbon coil for a fox 34 and maybe at that point I will try a racing Ray 2.35 speed grip because they don't make it in soft which is a bummer. That would take off 1.75lbs.

Unfortunately all my local trail koms are held by a gravel/cyclocross pro and the thought of him prancing thru the gnar with his bike on his shoulder bothers me.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> I use the soft/orange addix Mary. To me it doesn't feel draggy and being on the front rolling resistance doesn't matter as much. I commute to work and ride to the trail head and the mm soft does surprisingly well.
> 
> As far as rear I wouldn't run a addix soft on the rear of anything that sees tarmac use. I stick to speed grip/speed compounds.
> 
> ...


Have you ever considered that maybe he's riding his bike, and not "prancing thru the gnar"? And that maybe, he's just faster than you, up and down?

This sound similar to people who think that XC bikes aren't used on "actual trails".


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## PDXooo (Nov 21, 2019)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> I use the soft/orange addix Mary. To me it doesn't feel draggy and being on the front rolling resistance doesn't matter as much. I commute to work and ride to the trail head and the mm soft does surprisingly well.
> 
> As far as rear I wouldn't run a addix soft on the rear of anything that sees tarmac use. I stick to speed grip/speed compounds.
> 
> ...


Okay what size & diameter MM are you running & what rim width?


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PDXooo said:


> Okay what size & diameter MM are you running & what rim width?


 29 2.35 28mm iw.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> Have you ever considered that maybe he's riding his bike, and not "prancing thru the gnar"? And that maybe, he's just faster than you, up and down?
> 
> This sound similar to people who think that XC bikes aren't used on "actual trails".


 He is faster then me. My trails are xc with random gnar thrown in. And this one has a 1/2 mile gravel section connecting the trail between section 1 and 2.

He has 26 seconds on me in section 1which is .7 mile and I am flying thru that so he is a beast to do that on a gravel bike no doubt.
But there are technical climbs there is no way he's doing on a gravel bike.

And a side note the trail received 25 inches of rain in may and is not the same trail that he set kom on which was April 2018 perfect weather and no leaves.

But I'm 45 he's 25 so I might never catch him.

Doesn't mean I'll stop trying.

Maybe 25 years ago xc was not run on real trails but I don't think that's the case anymore.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> He is faster then me. My trails are xc with random gnar thrown in. And this one has a 1/2 mile gravel section connecting the trail between section 1 and 2.
> 
> He has 26 seconds on me in section 1 which is .7 mile and I am flying thru that so he is a beast to do that on a gravel bike no doubt.
> But there are technical climbs there is no way he's doing on a gravel bike.
> ...


 Edit: but I did take his kom on his cyclocross course that is a 1.5 mile lap around a small local lake. It has a root garden and lots of huge roots across the trail that a gravel bike can't carry speed thru but are too small to carry the bike.

On that trail I have a 3:24 he is second at 3:50 and third is 4:24.

The thing is I'll never have the power or endurance of a guy who rides 100s of miles a week and does 200 mile gravel races. But I'd like to think I can narrow the gap with bike handling skills and building the perfect bike for my trails.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Sorry for derailing carry on.


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## hesitationpoint (Aug 11, 2017)

Dude you have nothing to prove to anonymous people on the internet.

Back to tires, there is more to a fast tire than just 50-100 grams. The tread pattern, suppleness, and ability to run low pressure without burping or rim strikes all contribute to off road speed.


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## PDXooo (Nov 21, 2019)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Edit: but I did take his kom on his cyclocross course that is a 1.5 mile lap around a small local lake. It has a root garden and lots of huge roots across the trail that a gravel bike can't carry speed thru but are too small to carry the bike.
> 
> On that trail I have a 3:24 he is second at 3:50 and third is 4:24.
> 
> The thing is I'll never have the power or endurance of a guy who rides 100s of miles a week and does 200 mile gravel races. But I'd like to think I can narrow the gap with bike handling skills and building the perfect bike for my trails.


His advantage may be aero - a gravel bike cuts through the air better...

Perhaps your aero is in need of an improvement... 

(previous bike - for reference )


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PDXooo said:


> His advantage may be aero - a gravel bike cuts through the air better...
> 
> Perhaps your aero is in need of an improvement...
> 
> ...


 Should I buy one of those aero road helmets?


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## PDXooo (Nov 21, 2019)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Should I buy one of those aero road helmets?


I believe those work best at a certain aero body position - which I doubt you can do on your bike right now...

Wheel covers - even using *ehem* tight cycling clothes - will reduce your drag & help you to Accelerate faster as well as Maintain A Higher Top Speed(especially whilst pedalling on flat terrain)...

How about you at least try a good run, dress in proper XC clothes? (if you haven't already)


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PDXooo said:


> I believe those work best at a certain aero body position - which I doubt you can do on your bike right now...
> 
> Wheel covers - even using *ehem* tight cycling clothes - will reduce your drag & help you to Accelerate faster as well as Maintain A Higher Top Speed(especially whilst pedalling on flat terrain)...
> 
> How about you at least try a good run, dress in proper XC clothes? (if you haven't already)


 Dude I already have some assos T cento s7 bib shorts and a Lance Armstrong trek us postal service race jersey. Though I do seem to get some strange looks wearing it.

Being serious I did see the 2.25 Magic Mary soft comes in at 818grams which would save me 100+ grams and alittle rolling resistance I would think.


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## PDXooo (Nov 21, 2019)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Dude I already have some assos T cento s7 bib shorts and a Lance Armstrong trek us postal service race jersey. Though I do seem to get some strange looks wearing it.
> 
> Being serious I did see the 2.25 Magic Mary soft comes in at 818grams which would save me 100+ grams and alittle rolling resistance I would think.


I can't believe I just read & confirmed that - a 2.25 tyre with Soft Compound... 

Anyways I'm taking another approach - I intend to use a 2.6 Speedgrip on the front(Maybe a 2.6 XR2 if someone can validate their performance for me), with either a 2.25 Speed at the rear, or a 2.35 Speedgrip\Speed if same fits(I'm squeezing the largest 650B tyre size I can fit......in my 26'' frame)...

Is 2.25 in the front enough?

What about going wider with Speedgrip instead of using a soft compound on a skinny-er tyre?

The Nobby Nic Speedgrip 29x2.6 is 950g... O.O

(I'm going 2.6 650B Rocket Rons 735g - or XR2s about 690g if I can get a decent comparison of the two tyres from someone... >.>)


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PDXooo said:


> I can't believe I just read & confirmed that - a 2.25 tyre with Soft Compound...
> 
> Anyways I'm taking another approach - I intend to use a 2.6 Speedgrip on the front(Maybe a 2.6 XR2 if someone can validate their performance for me), with either a 2.25 Speed at the rear, or a 2.35 Speedgrip\Speed if same fits(I'm squeezing the largest 650B tyre size I can fit......in my 26'' frame)...
> 
> ...


 The speed grip is not on the same planet as the soft for grip and damping . And the rolling resistance gain is minimal on the front imo.

Someone may be able to offer science I'm just going by feel.

I had a 2.6 speed grip magic Mary wash out on me several times so I have a bias against using it on the front.

The dream would be a racing Ray 2.3 soft I would definitely try that.


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## PDXooo (Nov 21, 2019)

There's a 29x2.35 Fat Albert @780g: https://www.schwalbetires.com/2017-07-19 12:17:00 -0700


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

Zerort said:


> Isn't this thread about XC Race tires?
> 
> Why is anyone putting XC Race tires on their bike that weigh more than 650 grams?
> 
> ...


I can send you 25+ pictures from the World Cup race in Snowshoe this year with Mens and women pro on the folling tires all over 650 G

Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.25 Snake Skin
Schwalbe Racing Ray 2.25 Snake Skin
Maxxis Aspen 2.25 EXO
Maxxis Rekon Race 2.25 EXO
Vittoria Mezcal XC Race Tan Casing 2.25

All kinds of 29x2.25" tires over 650 Grams

My Rocket Ron 2.25 Lite Skin 589 Grams
And if you scan through this entire tread a lot of people are using and racing on 2.35" Tires Just and FYI


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Hahaha this is awesome. The topic was almost dead but when someone says something totally different the hell breaks lose! Choose what you like to ride at your own singletrack

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G973F met Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

JasperGr said:


> Choose what you like to ride at your own singletrack


That would only work if you were also racing on your own singletrack.
If you were racing elsewhere, you'd ask what sort of tyres others were running in those conditions.
Maybe in a thread called "2019 XC Race Tyres".

This season I used Spec Butcher/Purgatory, Fasttrak's, Ground Control's.
Different tracks/conditions.
2 of the 6 races were on my local singletrack.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I finally made a decision and ordered a pair of Rocket Rons (2.25, addix speedgrip snakeskin tl easy) from Jenson, $49.99 ea, no shipping and no sales tax. My state taxes ebay sales but some online retailers don't add tax, which is always a nice surprise. 
I like the taller knobs, for soft or 'marbles', and some damp, but they are going on my 'dry bike'. If they weigh as advertised, I'll save a pound on my wheels, with the tires and the carbon rims I had put on last summer. 
Wet bike (hardtail) is getting Forekasters.


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## PDXooo (Nov 21, 2019)

jimPacNW said:


> I finally made a decision and ordered a pair of Rocket Rons (2.25, addix speedgrip snakeskin tl easy) from Jenson, $49.99 ea, no shipping and no sales tax. My state taxes ebay sales but some online retailers don't add tax, which is always a nice surprise.
> I like the taller knobs, for soft or 'marbles', and some damp, but they are going on my 'dry bike'. If they weigh as advertised, I'll save a pound on my wheels, with the tires and the carbon rims I had put on last summer.
> Wet bike (hardtail) is getting Forekasters.


Cool - what rim size & width? O.O


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

29, rims are 27mm outer, carbon hookless. Since it's a xc bike and won't be doing anything non-xc, and for what I ride we went with that rim width. My team/shop builder (Joey at Indigenous Wheel) was surprised that the rims were just 295 and 300g. I'm pretty easy on equipment, so the light build should be ok. He says I'm easier on equipment than almost anyone he knows, so I'll try to continue that rep!


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

New Renegade Control Gripton 29x2.3 weighed in at 661 grams


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

midwestmtb said:


> New Renegade Control Gripton 29x2.3 weighed in at 661 grams


I have one on the rear that I've got a couple of rides on. I did not weigh it but I will say it has lots more grip compared to the old Renegade 2.3. It seems to roll fast too.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

The Rocket Rons arrived; 29x2.25 addix speedgrip, evo, snakeskin tle; 611g and 615g.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

I tried xr3//xr4 in the mud today and they performed horrible. They just clogged up and picked up mud like crazy.


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## mrbadwrench (Sep 13, 2016)

Yeah that guy is crazy. Schwalbes even with the snakeskin get punctures wayyyyy too easy. I'll take a 100 gram weight penalty and finish without a dnf.


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

Hmm....I’m no Schwalbe fan boy but I have had good luck over the years running snakeskin.


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

#neverschwalbe


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

Has anyone compared the morsa to the forekaster? I'm looking for opinions on how the two compare. I know the forekaster has a better transition knob but besides that how do they roll and grip compared to each other? After washing out on my 2.2 xr3// 2.4 xr4 team issue in the mud I'm looking for a different winter/spring combination. I currently have morsas in storage but would prefer running something with a better transition knob up front if the grip is similar.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

MillerC said:


> Has anyone compared the morsa to the forekaster? I'm looking for opinions on how the two compare. I know the forekaster has a better transition knob but besides that how do they roll and grip compared to each other? After washing out on my 2.2 xr3// 2.4 xr4 team issue in the mud I'm looking for a different winter/spring combination. I currently have morsas in storage but would prefer running something with a better transition knob up front if the grip is similar.


 My 29x2.2 Forecasters (you don't need/want a wide tire for mud, unless it's bottomless, ie fat bikes slide all over the place on mud) weigh 627g and 613g, 120tpi TR, but not EXO (I just put them on and haven't ridden them yet). I imagine the vittorias are quite a bit heavier, if you don't feel that you need a tougher sidewall you might like the weight of the non EXO Forekaster. I went with those for my wet bike because where I race (near Seattle) there's not many sharp rocks, most are round 'glacial till', and mud slows us down quite a bit so we're not hitting trail chunks very fast. I haven't seen anything on how wet/mud affects the rolling resistance results published from the metal drum tests, I imagine a more open tire would have less mud rolling resistance than a tighter tread. Maybe I just haven't seen it, but it seems that rolling resistance for rear would be different than front, because your rear contact patch is not 'coasting' like the front, it is putting force down towards the rear most of the time, -all that to say I think rolling resistance is a bit over blown, but certainly important for time trialing on pavement, - this is completely unscientific, but I was able to stay with some of the better local 1/2 masters cx guys on pavement while cx racing my hardtail mtb with a Mezcal front and Peyote rear a few months ago. The third place guy was heard by my teammate to say; "I couldn't lose that guy on the mtb!", which makes me no less skeptical about real world rolling resistance. 
I did like the Barzo for mud, I ran those on my hardtail two years ago, they're on my kids race bike now. I think those are a good choice if you need a tougher sidewall, and want good wet and dry grip do-it-all tire.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

Morsa rolling resistance verse ardent race.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/mtb-reviews?b=maxxis&maxweight=841&max=46&min=15&minpr=5
https://www.mountainbike-magazin.de/parts/test-8-all-mountain-reifen-2016/
It's a pretty heavy tire but rolls well for how much traction it offers. I'm on 27.5 hoops so actually enjoy the huge volume and tread.


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## jonas.aas (May 16, 2020)

Any new updates on when the wider Maxxis Aspen 2.35 or 2.4 will hit the market?


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