# 140-150mm Trail bike that CLIMBS well?



## R332 (Jul 26, 2004)

I am in the market for a trail bike to compliment my light weight 120mm XC bike but I want a bigger bike that still climbs well. This 'trail' bike will still be pedaled to the top of every climb and spend lots of time on XC trails so a stable climbing platform and poppy/responsive dynamics are important to me.

Any feedback on which bikes I should be looking at? Here are a few I am considering:

Santa Cruz Hightower or Megatower
S Works Stumpjumper or Stumpjumper Evo 
Trek Slash 9.9 (probably too big)
Norco Optic C (probably too small)


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

Ibis Ripmo should be on the list.


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

Pivot Switchblade 


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## spaightlabs (Dec 3, 2011)

Some of the new long-travel e-bikes make short work of the climbs and you are still sort of pedaling.


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## R332 (Jul 26, 2004)

spaightlabs said:


> Some of the new long-travel e-bikes make short work of the climbs and you are still sort of pedaling.


I am still 10+ years and 20lbs away from owning an e-bike


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## Crockpot2001 (Nov 2, 2004)

I'm coming off of a few Tallboys, Tallboy longtravel, Specialized Camber, Hightower, and now the new SJ EVO. The SJ EVO may be the best of them all. Small bump compliance may not be as good as the Santa Cruz bikes but overall, it pedals better and feels like a much more XC type bike that eat rocks and drops for dinner


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

I'm liking my Fezzari Cascade Peak. I don't feel like I lose anything on the climbs.


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## Halfabrain (Jun 5, 2014)

Here's my short list looking for new/old bike/build with similar:


Devinci Troy
Evil Offering
Transition Sentinel
SCOR 4060 
Pivot Switchblade


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

I like my Yeti SB140


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

It's amazing how well some of the long travel bikes pedal and climb these days. I've been really impressed with my lithium (short shocked, so running 150mm rear train that regard. With that said, does it climb like a 120mm bike? No, and I wouldn't expect it to do so. But I've been really impressed with CBF as a suspension platform.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

Ripmo my guy


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

I've said it many times before. Invest in light wheels that dont compromise performance. That is half your battle with bigger travel bikes. Heavier wheels make them a drag..... lighten the wheels/tyre combo and hey presto....


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

Megatower climbs like poop.

2021 Stumpjumper is an absolute trail bike weapon. Pair with lightweight wheels and you will have no issues climbing whatever you want to, while still being able to descend some gnar.

Also Banshee Prime v3 climbs excellent for a mid travel 29er. Long chainstays = speed and balance.

ripmo is kind of meh ime.


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## Arnaldo (Dec 9, 2013)

Orbea Occam with the Fox 36 fork upgrade. I was previously on a Pivot Mach 429 Trail and a Yeti SB130. The Occam has the right amount of plushness without making trail features feel too muted. Fun to ride and climbs like a goat.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

R332 said:


> Any feedback on which bikes I should be looking at?


GG Smash. I've done all day alpine rides with huge elevation and shredded BC black diamond trails without any changes. Climbs great and can be poppy if you choose to set the suspension up that way.


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## tstinchy (Apr 12, 2020)

Ripmo


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## goldsbar (Dec 2, 2004)

The Slash climbs well. The tires it comes with are very friendly for XC style rides. This is coming from someone that owns a Top Fuel as well.


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## atsouza (Oct 14, 2021)

My vote goes to Mondraker Foxy 29.


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## Cdal1770 (Mar 20, 2019)

A great question! 

I strongly recommend a Spot. I own a Spot Rollik (27.5) 150mm/160mm and it's an excellent climber. You can go with a Spot Mayhem 150, the 29er sibling to the, unfortunately, D/C'ed Rollik. I'd also recommend the Esker Elkat 27.5 150/160. It has a sturdier - and hence, heavier - frame, but it can climb almost just as well.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

So many good bikes in this category it’ll be hard to go wrong. My top three (or six):

Ibis Ripmo
Fezzari Delano Peak or La Sal Peak
Evil Offering
GG Smash
Knolly Fugitive 138
Specialized Stumpjumper
Orbea Occam


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

From a capability to pedability aspect the Stump Jumper Evo is the best bike I've been on. A lot of that may just simply be the geometry versus the actual kinematics, or combo of both. 

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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

These types of question are better off asking what 140-150mm trail bike climbs like ?

I'm of the school now where tires/wheels make the biggest difference and by climbing you mean fireroad or techy singletracks? Seems like the general rule is bikes with more antisquat will be more efficient on smooth climbs but bikes that have very active suspension will claw up tricky tech climbs better.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Bikeventures said:


> These types of question are better off asking what 140-150mm trail bike climbs like ?


I was thinking the same thing as I began reading this thread.

These days it's almost hard to find a stinker of a bike -- going uphill or down.

At least that's what I gather after hanging out on these forums 24/7 for decades. (Yeah, it's a problem...) Anyway I don't actually ride a lot of bikes that I don't own so I can't say I have a top ten list or anything but I'll just mention I couldn't wish for a better climber than my Guerrilla Gravity The Smash (140mm OG aluminum frame). Heck, my 163mm Canfield Lithium climbs really well, too. But then I'm one of those wackos that prefers short chainstays... or at least believes he does. 

Good luck in your bike search. Bet you won't make a mistake whatever you do.
=sParty


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

You didn't state wheel size but my Yeti SB140 climbs really well. If you are wanting only 29 i'd try out a Yeti SB130 or the SB130LR. The LR is 137mm so pretty much 140mm.


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## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

Transition sentinel or scout would fit the bill. I pedal my sentinel everywhere 


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## LVLBTY (Jul 15, 2020)

jay_paradox said:


> Pivot Switchblade


+1 for the Switchblade!!


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## cykelk (May 4, 2014)

Arnaldo said:


> Orbea Occam with the Fox 36 fork upgrade. I was previously on a Pivot Mach 429 Trail and a Yeti SB130. The Occam has the right amount of plushness without making trail features feel too muted. Fun to ride and climbs like a goat.


Another Occam vote.

First-hand comparisons I can make confidently are to a Ripmo (albeit v1), Rascal, SB130, and Sentinel (v2). The Occam consistently puts the biggest smile on my face in the most places. It's snappy, precise, plenty capable. Caveat is that you _might_ need to modify the DPX2 or choose a different shock, depending on where and how you ride.


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## dc40 (Oct 4, 2013)

Alchemy Arktos.


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

Another vote for the hightower. 

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## Tinshield (Aug 1, 2007)

My 21 Devinci Troy is a pretty impressive bike. I also have a 21 S-Works SJ I built. If could only have one bike I’d likely keep the Troy but the SJ is an all day marathon machine.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I’ve owned at least half the bikes mentioned. A lot really depends on terrain. I am partial to Banshee, but heavy aluminum may not be your thing. Pretty hard to ignore the Ripmo in this context.


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## Loll (May 2, 2006)

Ripmo


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## Mikecito (Jun 2, 2007)

I can't believe no one's recommended the Ripmo yet. You should try one.


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

I think the Ripmo and Switchblade are the best climbers of the bunch.


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

Crockpot2001 said:


> I'm coming off of a few Tallboys, Tallboy longtravel, Specialized Camber, Hightower, and now the new SJ EVO. The SJ EVO may be the best of them all. Small bump compliance may not be as good as the Santa Cruz bikes but overall, it pedals better and feels like a much more XC type bike that eat rocks and drops for dinner


Delete. Miss read. For climbing, you won't get any better than the Ripmo or Switchblade as mentioned above.


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## mo6500 (Feb 14, 2011)

Trek Fuel EX. I have the 9.8 model (2021) and it's a great climber and an excellent all-rounder.
It's 130 mm rear and 140 mm up front, but you can swap to a 150 mm fork.
If you still need more travel then try the Slash. It's a relatively lightweight bike that climbs well and was titled as the best buy on 2021 enduro bikes shootout 








2021 Trek Slash 9.8 XT review – A great all-rounder and a well-deserved Best Buy


The brand new Trek Slash has big shoes to fill, its predecessor being one of the most popular 29er enduro bikes on the market. We were all the more excited to find out if the new bike can hold its own against the increasingly tough competition. Spoiler alert: yes, it can! But there are a few...




enduro-mtb.com




Mo.


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## KylerOnTwoWheels (Feb 21, 2021)

I ordered a We Are Arrival. It seems liked like a fantastic climber but haven't gotten a chance to test it out yet.

I'll see how stacks up against my SB150 which is a pretty good climber already. Not quite as good as Ripmo or a Switchblade I've heard


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## spaightlabs (Dec 3, 2011)

It ain't the plane, it's the pilot...buy a bike and go ride.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Bikeventures said:


> These types of question are better off asking what 140-150mm trail bike climbs like ?
> 
> I'm of the school now where tires/wheels make the biggest difference and by climbing you mean fireroad or techy singletracks? Seems like the general rule is bikes with more antisquat will be more efficient on smooth climbs but bikes that have very active suspension will claw up tricky tech climbs better.


Exactly! Climbs what well. I think the Ripmo is a great bike to climb fireroads. I don't like it in tech climbs.


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## Tinshield (Aug 1, 2007)

Cerberus75 said:


> Exactly! Climbs what well. I think the Ripmo is a great bike to climb fireroads. I don't like it in tech climbs.


Interesting. My Troy is good on the smooth stuff but in tech it climbs amazing.


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## Cdal1770 (Mar 20, 2019)

Big Fil said:


> You didn't state wheel size but my Yeti SB140 climbs really well. If you are wanting only 29 i'd try out a Yeti SB130 or the SB130LR. The LR is 137mm so pretty much 140mm.


If I buy another Yeti, the SB140'll be it.


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## 63expert (Jun 4, 2020)

R332 said:


> I am in the market for a trail bike to compliment my light weight 120mm XC bike but I want a bigger bike that still climbs well. This 'trail' bike will still be pedaled to the top of every climb and spend lots of time on XC trails so a stable climbing platform and poppy/responsive dynamics are important to me.
> 
> Any feedback on which bikes I should be looking at? Here are a few I am considering:
> 
> ...


My Hightower V2 climbs better than I can


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## snowboardgeek1 (Jun 1, 2016)

I’ve owned an SB130, SB130 Lunch Ride, Ibis Ripmo, and Giant Trance X Advanced Pro 1, and all climb well. The SB130 feels more like a 140mm in the rear. I’d lean towards the Ripmo and Giant Trance X. In addition to climbing well, they corner/handle awesome and they handle the chunky stuff very well.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Tinshield said:


> Interesting. My Troy is good on the smooth stuff but in tech it climbs amazing.


The Troy is a great bike. The antisquat hovers around 100% which is good for most climbs. When you have bikes with 120% or more it tends to lock the rear more. And the rear won't be active.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

There are a lot of good climbing bikes in this category these days.

Still tires make the largest difference in that drag you feel when climbing.

Then I'd look for anti-squat at sag around 105-115%. Anymore binds up the suspension unless you only climb fire roads, and too much less bobs and sags. Also want AS to fall off quite a bit deeper in to the travel or you get harshness and poor traction.

Steep seat tube is darn important. Anything less than 76' I wouldn't consider. Must undertstand the difference between effective & actual and how this relates to you personally as well.

Then a lightweight bike is that last part of the equation and in spite of the PB claims, I still consider it important.

If you choose a bike that has these things, you'll have a great climbing bike. If you install Assagai tires you can do all of the above and your bike will still climb poorly. Repeat, tires are the most important aspect here.

GL.


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

I have an Evil Calling I've put almost 3,000 miles on... it is the most fun bike I've ever ridden. DW designed single pivot, easy to throw around and wants to boost off everything you can find on a trail. I've done XC & Enduro races, 20,30,40 mile rides and races, huge elevation gain days. If you want to enjoy your downhills with ear to ear grins... try out any Evil if you can.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

Suns_PSD said:


> Then a lightweight bike is that last part of the equation and in spite of the PB claims, I still consider it important.


Every review of the Transition Spur mentions its light weight. If it was 30 lbs short travel bike, would it still be as popular?


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## Cdal1770 (Mar 20, 2019)

abeckstead said:


> I have an Evil Calling I've put almost 3,000 miles on... it is the most fun bike I've ever ridden. DW designed single pivot, easy to throw around and wants to boost off everything you can find on a trail. I've done XC & Enduro races, 20,30,40 mile rides and races, huge elevation gain days. If you want to enjoy your downhills with ear to ear grins... try out any Evil if you can.


I found my Following MB to be the same way. I sold it because I found it's short travel to be the only drawback, but I can agree with you that it was a fun bike and wanted to launch at every opportunity. I wish the BB was a bit higher and the STA a bit steeper. I'm disappointed that the Calling has been culled from the new lineup, but I just found out that the Offering allows for a 27.5+ wheelset and that's right up my alley.


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## gr8fasushi (Aug 14, 2014)

Pimpmo


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Bikeventures said:


> Every review of the Transition Spur mentions its light weight. If it was 30 lbs short travel bike, would it still be as popular?


I don't think so. Not sure if this was coincidence or you knew, but I have a fairly lightweight Spur myself with all the tricks I could pull off and quite enjoy it.

PB can bust out some math on the weight percent difference on the system weight and make bike weight seem inconsequential, but in my experience that's not reality.

Maybe cause that weight has to be moved over and up ledges/ roots/ rocks for most of us on our trails. Maybe cause the body weight remains the same but we are tugging up on just the bike weight and not the system weight.

It seems that PB's calculations are accurate, if you pedal up a flat smooth road, but otherwise pretty whack.

I don't know, but I know that I sure like light bikes.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Doubt you'll find a better climbing bike than these 2...









Mayhem 130


In this era of mind-boggling complexity, we at Spot Brand never forget that the best solutions are often the simplest and most elegant.




spotbikes.com













Mayhem 150


In this era of mind-boggling complexity, we at Spot Brand never forget that the best solutions are often the simplest and most elegant.




spotbikes.com


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## Cdal1770 (Mar 20, 2019)

prj71 said:


> Doubt you'll find a better climbing bike than these 2...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I own the D/C'ed Rollik and I absolutely love its climbing prowess and efficiency.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> I don't think so. Not sure if this was coincidence or you knew, but I have a fairly lightweight Spur myself with all the tricks I could pull off and quite enjoy it.
> 
> PB can bust out some math on the weight percent difference on the system weight and make bike weight seem inconsequential, but in my experience that's not reality.
> 
> ...


Not just climbing. A lighter bike is easier to toss around on the trail too as you alluded to. Whipping around turns and such seems much easier on a lighter bike.


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

Curveball said:


> Not just climbing. A lighter bike is easier to toss around on the trail too as you alluded to. Whipping around turns and such seems much easier on a lighter bike.


This is where i feel the benefits of a light weight bike are the most effective. Lightweight bikes can still climb poorly, but popping and wiggling them through weirdness is a lot easier than a heavy bike.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

MyDadSucks said:


> This is where i feel the benefits of a light weight bike are the most effective. Lightweight bikes can still climb poorly, but popping and wiggling them through weirdness is a lot easier than a heavy bike.


My heavy bike climbs great, but it's a bit of a dog to maneuver. I like riding a light bike, but can't afford that.


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## k2blt (Jun 25, 2014)

No love for the new RM Instinct? Seems like it'd fit the bill as well.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Costco Intense Primer, perfect kinematics for climbing.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Every bike company has a bike that’ll fit your needs, a stable platform is in the suspension set up.

Gthe bike that appeals most to your inner self 😆

Like Vik, I’m a Guerilla Gravity fan, but I also like lots of other bikes. I like GG because they make their bikes in country and they are a good group of folks.

If you want your money to support the little guy/gal, there are a lot of companies to choose from.

I also ride Canfield (Tilt), they’re not made domestically, but Lance is a good guy and his team works hard to create cool rides and maintain a good vibe.

Tilt vs Smash, that’s a hard call, I think the Tilt probably has a firmer platform and the Smash is a plusher ride.

I think the DW and Split Pivot bikes ride really well, but they’re kinda damp; ie not as poppy.

I would not get a high pivot if you want a good climbing platform.

… and though it won’t make me popular, I’m not a Ripmo fan, though it’s DW, I felt like I was on top of the bike versus in the bike.

None of my bikes are lightweight, I don’t tend to pjck a bike or components for weight, price and durability are more important to me.

The lightest fs bike I’ve owned was a Fezzari, it wasn’t a bad bike, but the lighter weight made it kinda pingy off obstacles and it was a touch too stiff.

A good climber in the 140-150 range is not gonna climb like XC bike no matter what anyone tells you, but it’ll ride a hell of lot better than an XC bike through chunder, tech, and on the downs.


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## Calsun (May 12, 2021)

The Stumpjumper is the only bike mentioned that I can find in my size of S3 or M/L within 100 miles of my house. Not keen on a mail order bike as any problems become both much more time consuming and more expensive to fix.


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## Jukka4130 (Jun 21, 2020)

Check out the Pole Stamina 140 Remastered. It's exceptionally capable in descents for its travel, and because of the nicely designed suspension layout, there are spades of traction when it comes to climbing.

Then again, if the riding is even a bit more gravity-focused, the Stamina 180 model is worth a look since it's very, very close in pedaling characteristics compared to its smaller sibling.


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## Igotsoul4u (May 11, 2019)

I have a megatower. It is not great for climbing or pedaling hard. It definitely crushes at the bike park and climbs fine if you aren't being aggressive, but its not a do it all bike. I feel the same way about the Hightower. Switchblade or Ripmo gets my vote. Of course it depends what you want to do with it. If you want a solid bike park rig you might want something like a Megatower.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Jukka4130 said:


> Check out the Pole Stamina 140 Remastered. It's exceptionally capable in descents for its travel, and because of the nicely designed suspension layout, there are spades of traction when it comes to climbing.


Why is this bike not a pile of crap like Pole's other bikes?


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## Pipeliner (Oct 30, 2018)

Bikeventures said:


> These types of question are better off asking what 140-150mm trail bike climbs like ?
> 
> I'm of the school now where tires/wheels make the biggest difference and by climbing you mean fireroad or techy singletracks? Seems like the general rule is bikes with more antisquat will be more efficient on smooth climbs but bikes that have very active suspension will claw up tricky tech climbs better.


I agree with this. A great bike with heavy wheels and DH tires is still gonna suck to pedal, especially uphill. I seriously doubt you would find any 150 bike that “climbs well” with 2 extra lbs of wheel weight.
That said, I’ve got a new Ripmo with carbon rims and 900g tires and its pretty impressive to me. Can clear some pretty techy stuff.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

And the problem with the low AS bikes "clawing up tricky climbs" is they'll be also unweighting the front end due to the lack of AS, so that makes the steeper climbs harder, despite possibly having more "rear traction". There aren't many "low AS bikes" these days, but I'd refer more to bikes that have constant AS through at least half the travel as the good climbers, as you'll be going into this travel on any kind of mtb surface a lot of the time on smaller bumps, vs. the travel staying at the sag point in a static condition, like a paved road. The more active bikes may benefit more from a lockout...but that favors the smooth road climb more.


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## mixmastamikal (Jun 14, 2010)

Canfield Tilt climbs really well.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Jayem said:


> And the problem with the low AS bikes "clawing up tricky climbs" is they'll be also unweighting the front end due to the lack of AS, so that makes the steeper climbs harder, despite possibly having more "rear traction". There aren't many "low AS bikes" these days, but I'd refer more to bikes that have constant AS through at least half the travel as the good climbers, as you'll be going into this travel on any kind of mtb surface a lot of the time on smaller bumps, vs. the travel staying at the sag point in a static condition, like a paved road. The more active bikes may benefit more from a lockout...but that favors the smooth road climb more.


Yeah, definitely don't want low AS I find 100% or a tad more to be better in tech and 115% or more to be better on fireroads.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

jay_paradox said:


> Pivot Switchblade
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ditto


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

So of all these great climbing bikes which is the best to Absorb rough rock embedded trails and still climb good?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

desertwheeler said:


> So of all these great climbing bikes which is the best to Absorb rough rock embedded trails and still climb good?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What you want to look for, to climb rough trails while still having good pedaling performance, is a bike that has that good AS (105-110%) at the sag point (30%) while having the AS fall off significantly as it goes deeper into the travel.
This reduces the pedal kickback when it matters, frees up the rear suspension action, and gives you a nice active rear suspension on rough climbs. All while still pedaling well. 
Although they certainly pedal well, I don't like some of these virtual pivot point suspensions that have sky high AS deep into their travel, particularly when it goes sky high (i.e. 180% AS) in the top gears which is when you especially don't want it. They feel harsh and rear traction suffers too.

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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> What you want to look for, to climb rough trails while still having good pedaling performance, is a bike that has that good AS (105-110%) at the sag point (30%) while having the AS fall off significantly as it goes deeper into the travel (i.e. 60% AS at say 55% travel).
> This reduces the pedal kickback when it matters, frees up the rear suspension action, and gives you a nice active rear suspension on rough climbs. All while still pedaling well.
> Although they certainly pedal well, I don't like some of these virtual pivot point suspensions that have sky high AS deep into their travel, particularly when it goes sky high (i.e. 180% AS) in the top gears which is when you especially don't want it. They feel harsh and rear traction suffers too.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


Do you know how switchblades fall into that category? How does your SJ Evo fit in there too? 


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Suns_PSD said:


> What you want to look for, to climb rough trails while still having good pedaling performance, is a bike that has that good AS (105-110%) at the sag point (30%) while having the AS fall off significantly as it goes deeper into the travel (i.e. 60% AS at say 55% travel).
> This reduces the pedal kickback when it matters, frees up the rear suspension action, and gives you a nice active rear suspension on rough climbs. All while still pedaling well.
> Although they certainly pedal well, I don't like some of these virtual pivot point suspensions that have sky high AS deep into their travel, particularly when it goes sky high (i.e. 180% AS) in the top gears which is when you especially don't want it. They feel harsh and rear traction suffers too.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


IME, these don’t pedal well except in a static situation such as on a paved road. The second you start using more travel or sagging more when going uphill where there is less antisquat gets the bike into a kind of feedback loop where the harder you pedal, the soggier it feels. Shock leverage curve and tune has more to do with plush bump absorption IME.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

desertwheeler said:


> Do you know how switchblades fall into that category? How does your SJ Evo fit in there too?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, the switchblade keeps approximately 100% out to about 2/3-3/4 of the travel.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

desertwheeler said:


> Do you know how switchblades fall into that category? How does your SJ Evo fit in there too?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here is the '17 Switchblade and the '21 SJ Evo.

I ride Pivots, Yeti, Evils & others pretty often but really they are nothing but just short pedal around the trail head type things, but I find these bikes usually harsh and unforgiving in our endless chatter when on the power.
I like the way Santa Cruzs pedal and really liked the Pivot 429 as well. 

But after getting my first SJ I'm a huge fan of the current HL iteration. Personally I don't experience what Jayem mentioned but he might be talking about a bike with less AS than my '21 SJ Evo. Or maybe he just didn't have enough LSC?

Random bike testing is tough cause it takes me quite some time to dial a bike in so test rides don't tell me much. 


















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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Suns_PSD said:


> But after getting my first SJ I'm a huge fan of the current HL iteration. Personally I don't experience what Jayem mentioned but he might be talking about a bike with less AS than my '21 SJ Evo. Or maybe he just didn't have enough LSC?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


What do you mean "he might be"? You are the one that posted that he should look for a bike with 60% AS in the middle of travel, then you posted that yours has over 100% at that point, something completely different.

You were the one talking about less AS than your 21 SJ Evo.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Jayem said:


> What do you mean "he might be"? You are the one that posted that he should look for a bike with 60% AS in the middle of travel, then you posted that yours has over 100% at that point, something completely different.
> 
> You were the one talking about less AS than your 21 SJ Evo.


You are correct. I underestimated the amount of AS that my own bike has!



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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

They have significantly "flattened" the curve on modern Horst link bikes. Not everyone is doing it, but most have seen the light.

The first reaction that Specialized and a few had to bikes like the DW link and other modern bikes with similar AS curves was to jack the AS starting point way way up there, but have the same steeply falling graph, causing still low AS at the mid-point. The more recent interpretations by them and others have flattened the curve significantly, so it doesn't drop off crazy. The same can be achieved with a single pivot and virtual pivots, so it doesn't require a horst link to do it. The horst link does have the slight disadvantage of a pivot in-between the rear dropout and main pivot, which is is not going to be the stiffest rear design, but it can be compensated for with more weight and bigger parts.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Here is the '17 Switchblade and the '21 SJ Evo.
> 
> I ride Pivots, Yeti, Evils & others pretty often but really they are nothing but just short pedal around the trail head type things, but I find these bikes usually harsh and unforgiving in our endless chatter when on the power.
> I like the way Santa Cruzs pedal and really liked the Pivot 429 as well.
> ...


I have riden every bike on the anti squat list for the Switchblade. I found the Riot to be the best at tech climbs. It's one of the reasons I kept it for so long and just recently replaced it with the Lithium, the Riot does have a little kickback though. The Banshee is pretty good too. AS is part of the equation for a bike that climbs in tech. You want it to fall off deep in travel so you don't get kick back but you still want some. But axel path and shock choice and settings have a lot to do with it as well. The previous and current Switchblade (and 429) aren't bad at all. Better IMHO than the Ibis bikes...a little hitch/hang right around sag that's not present in CFB suspension.


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

Anybody have time on a Revel Rascal besides me? It is hands down the best climbing bike I have ridden. That being said I dont have much time on other bikes in the category. Comparisons to the Ripmo or Switchblade?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

What does “good climbing” mean?

If you’re talking tech, the important stuff may have more to do with pedal clearance and chainstay length, suspension set up, even HTA can change how a bike climbs.

I’d like to be able to say that one bike climbs better than another, but I’m hard pressed to say that honestly.

I have a Tilt and a Shred Dogg, both climb well, I’d give the nod to the Shred for agility and balance in really tight tech, but the Tilt ain’t bad esp when I need a bigger wheel to bridge obstacles.

Of these two bikes, the one that rules them all is mounting 29” wheels on the Shred Dogg. Pedal clearance goes way up, short chainstay helps with agility, I can clamber up stuff that stops other bikes because I don’t need to worry about pedal strikes.

When I rode a Fatillac, I remember being able to climb some stuff that I haven’t gotten since 🙄

The best tech climber I’ve ridden was an Esker Elkat, I found the Orion suspension super plush and it gripped the ground like nobody’s business.

Esker makes a 29er ….


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

utmtbrider said:


> Anybody have time on a Revel Rascal besides me? It is hands down the best climbing bike I have ridden. That being said I dont have much time on other bikes in the category. Comparisons to the Ripmo or Switchblade?


Yeah it's really good. See above your question. CFB is the same suspension type.


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## motard5 (Apr 9, 2007)

Traditionally if you’re asking for a pedal focused bike, people tend to suggest short twin link rear suspension bikes from Giant, Ibis, Pivot, Santa Cruz, Intense, Revel etc. They all use DW or similar rear end that tends to feel snappy even when travel gets bigger 140-160mm range. I don’t find them to feel particularly plush, or the best downhill, but overall pedal well.

The bar and Horst link style from Specialized, Trek, Norco etc. have traditionally been more supple, planted, and traction focused, but feel less snappy. I’ve always found these bikes feel better downhill

Overall it depends on your local terrain. For example the Pivots are higher, compact, and snappy bikes that do really well in slower speed tech and chunk of AZ and the East Coast. The SJ Evo is going to be longer, lower and slacker, really good for high speed but smoother trails of NorCal.

I think some bikes can combine a bit of each benefit, which is why I like the Yeti SB130LR for the best pedaling trail bike. The Ibis Ripmo and the SJ EVO both tied for my second favorites, and the Trek Fuel EX is my favorite if you want a little lighter and less travel.


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## Surfindabass (Nov 30, 2020)

Anything with Canfield CBF suspension.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Surfindabass said:


> Anything with Canfield CBF suspension.


CBF is a pretty flat curve around 100% anti-squat, which has been replicated with single pivot (non-virtual) bikes like Evil, Devinci and others. It does not "drop way off" further in the travel like the guy a few posts above claimed. That's kind of a big point, it doesn't take parallel/mini-links to do this, but it does take linkages to vary shock rate significantly and that's where the bigger differences come in IME.

I would again argue that the shock leverage curve and tune, things that are independent of the anti-squat curve, have a lot more to do with how well a bike eats up bumps on most modern bikes. For sure there are a few wacky outliers that have way too little or way too much AS, but those are exceptionally rare these days.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Link with a whole lot of linkage analysis on the CBF on the Lithium. It's in Spanish, but there are charts







Linkage Design







linkagedesign.blogspot.com


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Jayem said:


> CBF is a pretty flat curve around 100% anti-squat, which has been replicated with single pivot (non-virtual) bikes like Evil, Devinci and others. It does not "drop way off" further in the travel like the guy a few posts above claimed. That's kind of a big point, it doesn't take parallel/mini-links to do this, but it does take linkages to vary shock rate significantly and that's where the bigger differences come in IME.
> 
> I would again argue that the shock leverage curve and tune, things that are independent of the anti-squat curve, have a lot more to do with how well a bike eats up bumps on most modern bikes. For sure there are a few wacky outliers that have way too little or way too much AS, but those are exceptionally rare these days.


My wife rides a Wreckoning LB it's pretty good. Every Devinci I've tried (I owned an Atlas) was good too. Every VVP I've tried seemed to have a lot of hang up in climbs. Good descending though.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Surfindabass said:


> Anything with Canfield CBF suspension.


My 163mm bike climbs tech awesomely.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

I fix the kickback issue by using hubs that don't have crazy high engagement - 50 poe is fine.


Cerberus75 said:


> My wife rides a Wreckoning LB it's pretty good. Every Devinci I've tried (I owned an Atlas) was good too. Every VVP I've tried seemed to have a lot of hang up in climbs. Good descending though.


Did you try JS Tuned?


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

TylerVernon said:


> I fix the kickback issue by using hubs that don't have crazy high engagement - 50 poe is fine.
> 
> Did you try JS Tuned?


I did the same. Ran no clutch and had a Avalanche tuned shock. The Lithium I have an EXT and it's has no delectable kick.


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## matthepanther (Jun 7, 2016)

The switchblade climbed almost as well as my izzo when I rode one recently. Surprised the hell out of me. No pedal bob


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

matthepanther said:


> The switchblade climbed almost as well as my izzo when I rode one recently. Surprised the hell out of me. No pedal bob


Its an impressive bike for sure. Liked the one I demoed quite a bit. I like my Rascal more though!


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## FreuderLocks (May 20, 2010)

R332 said:


> I am in the market for a trail bike to compliment my light weight 120mm XC bike but I want a bigger bike that still climbs well. This 'trail' bike will still be pedaled to the top of every climb and spend lots of time on XC trails so a stable climbing platform and poppy/responsive dynamics are important to me.
> 
> Any feedback on which bikes I should be looking at? Here are a few I am considering:
> 
> ...


I like my Reeb Sqweeb, for 150/160 it's great, they make a short travel version too.

-Paul


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