# Tour Divide 2020



## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Who's in for the 2020 Tour Divide?

I'm going NOBO this year. Trying to generate interest for a June 12th Midnight plus one minute Grand Depart from Antelope Wells (as opposed to the traditional 8AM one).

Of course, Grand Depart is a relative term. I think there were six NOBO riders last year.

I don't like the cold weather.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

It's a dirt road. Life's too short.

Lots of skinny (and empty) trails out there to be discovered tho...


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

mikesee said:


> It's a dirt road. Life's too short.
> 
> Lots of skinny (and empty) trails out there to be discovered tho...


It's an adventure. It's probably not the most difficult bikepacking race in the world but it's probably the most difficult one that enthusiastic amateurs who have real jobs can attempt.

And some of our top guys who finish it in 14-18 days are world class athletes who define suffering for the love of cycling (like Josh Kato and Jay Petervary).

But it's more than a dirt road. That thing is a beast. This will be my third attempt. If you stick to the spirit of Tour Divide and respect the race it is a real challenge, physically and especially mentally.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm surprised there's not more interest.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

I love rolling down my driveway, North of Boston and just ride. So much I haven't seen or pedaled here. Endless dirt roads, bike paths and some pave to connect. VT and NH are awesome. Great singletrack everywhere too. No desire to ever enter a race. Cheers. VT, where all the hills go up, and at the bottom good beer awaits.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Ailuropoda said:


> It's an adventure. It's probably not the most difficult bikepacking race in the world but it's probably the most difficult one that enthusiastic amateurs who have real jobs can attempt.
> 
> And some of our top guys who finish it in 14-18 days are world class athletes who define suffering for the love of cycling (like Josh Kato and Jay Petervary).
> 
> But it's more than a dirt road. That thing is a beast. This will be my third attempt. If you stick to the spirit of Tour Divide and respect the race it is a real challenge, physically and especially mentally.


No doubt. For many, it's a huge bucket list item and major accomplishment. I've been watching some YT vids with racers such as Lael Wilcox. Amazing stuff....


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

mikesee said:


> It's a dirt road. Life's too short.


How many times have you finished the Tour?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Phillbo said:


> How many times have you finished the Tour?


Once was way more than enough. I was ready to be done in Montana.

edit: I rode the entire Colorado section as a primer in 2001. Then went back and ITT'd the route in '03, stopping at roughly halfway with a cracked frame, bent psyche, and pretty broken body. I had been pushing hard and was ~2 days ahead of the then record. Went back in '04 and finished, setting the high water mark of the time.

I went back and finished it simply because I hate not finishing things that I've started.

But honestly, looking back now? I stand by what I wrote above -- that once was way more than enough. I could have done so many other interesting *actual* mountain bike routes if I hadn't burned my body up on this silly, unsatisfying glorified gravel grinder.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Ailuropoda said:


> It's an adventure. It's probably not the most difficult bikepacking race in the world but it's probably the most difficult one that enthusiastic amateurs who have real jobs can attempt.
> 
> And some of our top guys who finish it in 14-18 days are world class athletes who define suffering for the love of cycling (like Josh Kato and Jay Petervary).
> 
> But it's more than a dirt road. That thing is a beast. This will be my third attempt. If you stick to the spirit of Tour Divide and respect the race it is a real challenge, physically and especially mentally.


It can certainly be an adventure. But then that's a fairly nebulous definition. Running down to the corner store at lunch can also be an adventure.

Something like 95% of the route is dirt road or pavement. That makes the wilder sections more enjoyable when you hit them, you just don't hit them very often.

I'll agree that it's a mental challenge. Staring down a washboarded dirt road, seeing it roll over the horizon while on the aerobars, and getting dusted by pickups doing 60mph is challenging for sure. Especially knowing that there's another 1000 or 2000 miles of that to go.

But there's nothing enjoyable about any of that, especially more than once.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Staring down a washboarded dirt road, seeing it roll over the horizon while on the aerobars, and getting dusted by pickups doing 60mph is challenging for sure. .


It's no fun sharing the road with wanna-be Trophy Truck drivers


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

ccm said:


> It's no fun sharing the road with wanna-be Trophy Truck drivers


That might be laying it on a bit thick. More often it's just ranchers or even tourists, in a hurry to get from A->B. But the net effect is the same -- high speed truck traffic that's not particularly aware of nor concerned about your presence.

At best you get dusted, repeatedly. At worst you get hit, or pushed off the road.

Ask Pete Basinger how that worked out for him...


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

leeboh said:


> I love rolling down my driveway, North of Boston and just ride. So much I haven't seen or pedaled here. Endless dirt roads, bike paths and some pave to connect. VT and NH are awesome. Great singletrack everywhere too. No desire to ever enter a race. Cheers. VT, where all the hills go up, and at the bottom good beer awaits.


I was in New Hampshire last summer and was overwhelmed at the sites and beauty of state. Spent 2 weeks driving around back roads while the others I went with did the tourist attractions. I am shure I enjoyed myself much more than they did. I tried to get a bike but could not find one. Would love to live there.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

ccm said:


> It's no fun sharing the road with wanna-be Trophy Truck drivers


I got about a thousand miles the last time. I hardly saw any traffic except going through towns and the few paved sections I hit (like Whitefish to Big Fork which was mostly paved). Even then there were not a lot of cars. Some of the roads were dusty.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

go for it and have fun. do what you want, and don't worry about others.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Sounds like an exciting start, Ailuro.

FWIW to anyone, I enjoyed the US portion enough to go back and ride it again. Both times at a touring pace with variations. Maybe that’s why we/I were able to finish it and liked it? 

We wanted to see the west, the GDMBR delivered. All respect to racers but that doesn’t look like fun to me. I take at least twice as long and love every day of it. I digress… Have a blast and may the wind be at your back despite popular lore. Watch for dogs in Vallecitos.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

timsmcm said:


> I was in New Hampshire last summer and was overwhelmed at the sites and beauty of state. Spent 2 weeks driving around back roads while the others I went with did the tourist attractions. I am shure I enjoyed myself much more than they did. I tried to get a bike but could not find one. Would love to live there.


 The class 6 roads? 100 year old logging roads, tress in the middle, still on maps. And class 4 in VT too. Snow machine trails? All over NH, VT and ME. All mapped out, in the middle of the woods you will find signs that point out, gas, food, lodging, with directions and mileage. ( Bills pizza, 2 miles on the left past the bridge)


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

mikesee said:


> Once was way more than enough. I was ready to be done in Montana.
> 
> I went back and finished it simply because I hate not finishing things that I've started.
> 
> But honestly, looking back now? I stand by what I wrote above -- that once was way more than enough. I could have done so many other interesting *actual* mountain bike routes if I hadn't burned my body up on this silly, unsatisfying glorified gravel grinder.


In a lot of places the dirt roads are the only way. But when it comes down to it, its the mental game that stops many of the people riding this route. Mike Hall once said (paraphrasing) '95% of the Tour Divide is mental- and the other 5% is mental'.

Hal Russel, a well-known Tour Divide veteran, told me that 'People come to do the Tour Divide and then complain to me how hard it is. Its the Tour Divide! Its is not meant to be easy'. That was last year, Hal was 70 and has been down the route in its entirety six times. Hal: "Quitting? Quitting is the easiest thing you can do!"

A few years ago more single track was added in Canada, Wyoming and New Mexico. This year Koko Claims is still in the mix; sounds like the reroute to deal with logging in the Missions won't be.


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## alias (May 9, 2005)

I will say to whomever is dreaming of this route to ignore Mikesee and others who seem to only contribute negativity.

For many folks the GDMBR or TD or what ever you prefer to call it is a huge, once in a lifetime, if utterly attainable goal. Are there routes with more singletrack? Yes. Are there more 'adventureous' routes? Certainly.

I guess one thing that I learned during the Corona lock down is that we each have our own dreams and desires. We also have our own limitations; be it time, money, experience, courage in the face of the unknown...whatever it is that makes you think twice about doing something you dream of, try and overcome it and go do it! 
We only live once, life is too short to let grumpy strangers on some internet forum talk you out of something you really want to do.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

alias said:


> I will say to whomever is dreaming of this route to ignore Mikesee and others who seem to only contribute negativity.
> 
> We only live once, life is too short to let grumpy strangers on some internet forum talk you out of something you really want to do.


Negativity is one perspective.

Realism is another.

I wish that there had been realistic opinions shared about it by "grumpy strangers" back when I was considering it. Instead of pie in the sky hyperbole that didn't remotely capture the true nature of the route.

Have I stated that it isn't for *anyone*?

I have not.

I'm just trying to give a more balanced perspective, so that a few people whom are on the fence about how to spend months of training, (possibly multiple) thousands of dollars, and a month of precious vacation time might better understand what awaits them out there.

Or, they could read only what you've written and keep the blinders on.


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

I've headed south out of Banff for the last 4 years in a row and none of them with the grand depart. My son and I were supposed to go again in mid June but we now know how things have changed.

My first year was to go dip my foot in the water to see what it was like. Made it to Whitefish where I was sidelined by a sitting issue.
My second year (first year for Koko Claims) I was in the best shape of my life doing an ITT. I was doing great until knee issues popped up. 
Third year with my son. He went down coming off of Galton so we had to reassess in Eureka and scaled back the pace ending up in Helena.
Last year was the best ever. I took my visually impaired wife on our custom mountain tandem. It was the best ever. We had to drop some sections due to her conditioning levels. She broke a leg 4 weeks before our original scheduled date. HEaded out in late August. It needed to be fun for her rather than miserably grinding away all day. Day 1 to Elkford was LOOONNNGGGGG. Her first 100 mile ride ever and she was dead beat tired. We took it easy down to Eureka but ended crossing Whitefish Divide, had a nice picnic at the top and a great evening in Polebridge.

I had not planned on going back this year but I might just head up and make another run for the border. The Canadian section is magical IMHO and never gets old.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

mikesee said:


> Negativity is one perspective.
> 
> Realism is another.
> 
> ...


Blinders?

I've read this post several times, plus previous ones by you and it really appears to me as if the blinders here are your mental game. Its easy enough to sort out that most of this route is not on amazing single-track or the like; really, what were you thinking?? As a result, it appears that you developed a bad attitude that obviously affected your entire experience. That happened to a friend of mine in 2018 and I just have no idea what he was thinking either- rode through the same stuff he did. If you ride the AZT, CT, Silk Road Route, Baja Divide and others, if you don't figure out your mental game those will probably seem to have a lot in common with the Divide (although there is a lot more single-track on the AZT and CT) as well. Any successful ultra-endurance athlete knows this: your mental game is everything.

I was wondering why you were so down on the Divide route; now this much seems pretty clear. I know a number of people that have ridden this route multiple times and can't get enough; I don't think its because they are simply looking for punishment. You get that with any ultra-endurance route. Josh Kato has taken some of the most amazing photos I've seen of the Divide; I don't know how he manages to get all the color and contrasts in his shots but its clear that he has a great eye with a camera. (



) Last year he had to stop because of a severe lung infection, but the way he talks about the Divide, its clear he's still grateful for his experiences and in awe. Hal Russell has ridden the route six times and would do it more if health allowed (he'll be 71 this year). Bonnie Gagnon has done the route with serious lung and heart problems, a bad knee, bacteriological infections and the like (none of which have anything to do with the Divide); its amazing to me she's still alive; but she lives to ride and here attitude is unstoppable.

I'm sorry that the Divide didn't live up to your expectations. But the route doesn't care what your expectations are; it simply is what it is. Some see it as spectacular, and if you like being in the middle of nowhere with just you and the bike, the satisfaction you can get from it can be off the charts.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Salubrious said:


> Its easy enough to sort out that most of this route is not on amazing single-track or the like; really, what were you thinking??


In 2000, when I first started researching the route, it was heavily emphasized that it was a mountain bike route. The word "trail" featured prominently in everything I could find about it -- which wasn't much.

So, um, I guess you could fairly say I was thinking it would be, um, trail.

As I've mentioned previously, had they called it what it is -- gravel -- I'd have looked elsewhere.



Salubrious said:


> I'm sorry that the Divide didn't live up to your expectations. But the route doesn't care what your expectations are; it simply is what it is. Some see it as spectacular, and if you like being in the middle of nowhere with just you and the bike, the satisfaction you can get from it can be off the charts.


I'm just quoting this for the sake of it. So that maybe you will, eventually, see how you sound from the perspective of others.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

mikesee said:


> In 2000, when I first started researching the route, it was heavily emphasized that it was a mountain bike route. The word "trail" featured prominently in everything I could find about it -- which wasn't much.
> 
> So, um, I guess you could fairly say I was thinking it would be, um, trail.
> 
> ...


I am curious- how do you think it sounds?

There are people that have ridden the Divide on cross bikes and even unicycles. Accounts from people on cross bikes indicate that a mountain bike is faster; IME the wider tires are helpful on the gravel, especially if its a 'well maintained' road. But there's a lot of two track as well; however if you rode this in the early 2000s its likely that the route has changed as it often does from year to year. There were a good number of places last year where I was grateful for my plus sized tires, so maybe the issue for you is what defines a 'mountain bike route'.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

I would seriously love to ride the GDMBR. I love gravel, two track, and climbing...


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## NDD (Jul 22, 2013)

I learned about this ride whenever I read about the first guy to do it on a single speed. He had a good blog about it. Not sure that I'd ever try to do it, obviously don't train for something like that. Kind of more inclined to explore closer to home now. One hell of a ride by most folks standards. 

I think it's a commendable goal. Even the blog I read from 2005 seemed to indicate that the route was primarily roads of all qualities.


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## alias (May 9, 2005)

To be clear, especially to mikesee, my intention is not to throw anyone under the bus for differing opinions about where is fun, and where is less fun to ride bikes!


@mikesee I wanted to applogize for calling you out, especially not having been complete in any communication to or about you. 
I also wanted to say thanks for all the knowledge and stoke that you have shared on this forum over the years. I think we have all benefited at some point from one of your tidbits. But, you are certainly one of the saltiest dogs out there! Keep being salty, just dont let it get out of hand!

Cheers to everyone here, I hope you all are dealing with the current situation OK and can get out and ride somewhere that inspires you soon.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Not to state the obvious but the Tour Divide is a race that roughly follows the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route but it's not the same thing as touring the GDMBR. If you respect the rules of the race it is pretty tough. I didn't do very well because I wasn't fit enough to sustain a race pace and scratched.

If you have a couple of months and want to ride at an easy pace I guess it's not that difficult but finishing in 25 days...or 14 like Josh Kato and Jay Petervary...is a real challenge.

Unfortunately, because of the uncertainty of the Canadian border in June I've had to redirect to 2021. I've already committed to working my usual number of shifts in June. But I'll be racing NOBO in 2021. I don't want an asterisk after my time as in, "*did not complete the Canadian section."


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