# what happened to all the freeride hardtails??



## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

im new to the sport, but i was just looking around norcos site, and back in 05 the manic came with a dual crown fork and 8inch rotors...in 2011 the whole line looks like walmart bikes. what gives??? even banshee doesn't have any seriously built hardballs in their lineup. i wanted a new freeride hardtail this summer, i bought a 08 komodo and had to put a bigger fork on it, is this a diminishing trend??? just found it odd


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

seems they are slowing disappearing, the only real freeride hardtail i can think of is the ns core
http://nsbikes.com/


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## all-yeti! (Aug 21, 2007)

Walmart bikes? Seriously?


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

mfrench2013 said:


> im new to the sport, but i was just looking around norcos site, and back in 05 the manic came with a dual crown fork and 8inch rotors.


Well, any hardtail with a fork that long will handle like a drunk pig. People got very carried away with the whole freeride hardtail thing, building bikes that handled like crap, weighed so much you may as well have just got a DH frame and were so harsh any attempt at jumping would shatter your ankles. Then they wanted to have some fun again...

Freeride hardtails are still about, just now they've got decent geometry and forks around 140-160 in mind. Ragley's Bagger 288/Troof and the TransAm spring to mind.


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

Right here,















150mm up front right now, plan on slapping a 36 Talas as soon as I get back from the desert. Wouldnt change a thing!


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## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

all-yeti! said:


> Walmart bikes? Seriously?


 just exaggerating to make a point, not seriously, the specs on em just seem so sub par to what they were a few years ago


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## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

^^ looks great, what frame is it?


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

right here sinister ridge you can put any fork you want on it, but good luck finding one.

From my bikes


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

mfrench2013 said:


> just exaggerating to make a point, not seriously, the specs on em just seem so sub par to what they were a few years ago


I think if people are riding freeride hardtails these days they are mostly kind of thrash DJ/street bikes. You don't really need expensive brakes and other bling blong parts for chucking the bike against pavement and landings of DJ's. Most people are moving to just full-suspension bikes. I feel often like i'm one of the few DH'ers who still plays around with a hardtail, and I barely touch it anymore.


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## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

this is what im on for now, everytime ive gone to a mountain im the only one with a hardtail besides my friend.


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

mfrench2013 said:


> this is what im on for now, everytime ive gone to a mountain im the only one with a hardtail besides my friend.


how much travel you running?


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## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

160mm with 20% sag


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

mfrench2013 said:


> ^^ looks great, what frame is it?


Preproduction 09 Evil Sovereign.


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## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

mfrench2013 said:


> just exaggerating to make a point, not seriously, the specs on em just seem so sub par to what they were a few years ago


My guess would be there's not that big a market. Sales slowed, people are not buying new models or are more price sensitive, and the industry responds by offering fewer and cheaper options.


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## toowacky (May 24, 2005)

They're are still around, like the Stiffee, for example... and also check the UK (like on Chain Reaction), they love their hardtails, but it's definitely a niche market in the US.

NS is a solid choice, too, as mentioned

http://covebike.com/bikes/stiffee
http://hagoromo.blogspot.com/2010/09/ragley-bagger-288.html
http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/BFe
http://www.dmrbikes.com/?Section=pr...ategory=7&CategoryName=Frames&itemid=FRMExalt


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## Lunchbox362 (Jun 27, 2009)

......


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## Steve.E (Apr 10, 2009)

I'm not sure I'd call it a freeride hard tail but it's built pretty strong, and the Lyrik on the front definitely suggests heavy hits

Evil Sovereign


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## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

the evils look pretty nice, is that sovereign a steel frame? kinda looks it


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## Steve.E (Apr 10, 2009)

Yeah it's steel.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

I think alot of people are going with steel and choosing their frames and building up form there. If you look around there are quite a few choices. The Cotic BFe is still one of my favourites but of cousre Evil know their stuff. Another awesome hardtail is the Dialled bikes Alpine. Steel is the way to go in my opinion.
Have to say I love hardtails but I had to give them up due to my back getting blown out. I would still rock one for DH but for Freeriding my bodys says No Bueno!


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Just stumbled on this going through my hard drive. A thing of beauty:thumbsup:


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

Here goes my Transition Vagrant.


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## azonicrider188a (Mar 18, 2006)

i dont know about these sketchy lookin bikes


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

azonicrider188a said:


> i dont know about these sketchy lookin bikes


sketchy how?


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## DucJ (Aug 14, 2009)

insanitylevel9 said:


> sketchy how?


None have a seat "Collar" made in Barnoldswick Lancashire England is my guess..


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

DucJ said:


> None have a seat "Collar" made in Barnoldswick Lancashire England is my guess..


or maybe the fact mine has a front derailleur that does nothing(theres no cable or shifter for it) because i rock mine as a 1X9:thumbsup:


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

insanitylevel9 said:


> or maybe the fact mine has a front derailleur that does nothing(theres no cable or shifter for it) because i rock mine as a 1X9:thumbsup:


presumably it acts as a sort of ghetto guide. :thumbsup: and fr hardtails are such a niche, personally if i didnt want a big travel fr bike id go with something like a gt distortion.


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

b-kul said:


> presumably it acts as a sort of ghetto guide. :thumbsup:


spot on :lol: i got no money for a guide right now so i made a ghetto one:thumbsup:


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## mattf (Feb 1, 2005)

Nice video, that park looks like a lot of fun. Is that located in the town Boppard or is that the name of the resort?


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

mfrench2013 said:


> im new to the sport, but i was just looking around norcos site, and back in 05 the manic came with a dual crown fork and 8inch rotors...in 2011 the whole line looks like walmart bikes. what gives??? even banshee doesn't have any seriously built hardballs in their lineup. i wanted a new freeride hardtail this summer, i bought a 08 komodo and had to put a bigger fork on it, is this a diminishing trend??? just found it odd


define "freeride"


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Nicolai BMXTB


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## mantasv (Jun 22, 2010)

please delete , wrong button.


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## mantasv (Jun 22, 2010)

Here is mine:


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## blue109 (Jun 21, 2009)

im just totally confused why you would want a 8" fork on a hardtail. you want a sledge hammer or a scalpel?


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

blue109 said:


> im just totally confused why you would want a 8" fork on a hardtail. you want a sledge hammer or a scalpel?


the reasons i ride a hardtail
A.) i prefer them
B.) i cant find a fs i like
C.) it puts a bit of a cap on what i do, the reason i say that is because im the kinda person who will keep going bigger and bigger till i get hurt badly.


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

lokomonkey said:


> define "freeride"


balls out sending stuff


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## blue109 (Jun 21, 2009)

> the reasons i ride a hardtail


you have a 160 on there though right? seems like a good setup. i think a nice light solid HT would be a fun bike and id love to add one to my stable. im talking about DH forks on a hardtail. just seems like a confused bike to me.


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

blue109 said:


> you have a 160 on there though right? seems like a good setup. i think a nice light solid HT would be a fun bike and id love to add one to my stable. im talking about DH forks on a hardtail. just seems like a confused bike to me.


ya its got a 160 and if you think the hard tails with a 200mm fork are over kill check this thing out:lol:.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

insanitylevel9 said:


> ya its got a 160 and if you think the hard tails with a 200mm fork are over kill check this thing out:lol:.


160 is perfect for a burly hardtail but anything much over that is just silly. sure your front end can take a monster hit but can the rear?


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## DucJ (Aug 14, 2009)

b-kul said:


> 160 is perfect for a burly hardtail but anything much over that is just silly. sure your front end can take a monster hit but can the rear?


I'm sure there's one rear here that takes "Big Hits"..Repeatedly..


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

DucJ said:


> I'm sure there's one rear here that takes "Big Hits"..Repeatedly..


beat me to it


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## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

*From Commuter to Freerider*

Since my bike skills have gotten a bit better, I have decided to put the dual suspension to the side for few days and try to hit the jumps with my hardtail. Have turned the commuter into my Freeride machine but dunno if the Manitou Splice will hold the abuse.

2006 Haro Escape 8.2 pretty much stock but changed handlebars, and back tyre. Frame size is Small therefore soooo easy to flick around. Will have to wait until the weekend to see how it goes!


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

the splice will handle nothing. mine used to twist when braking.


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## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

saturnine said:


> the splice will handle nothing


I usually hit some stairs on the way to work and it has been OK but we will see how it goes on the trails.


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## mantasv (Jun 22, 2010)

blue109 said:


> im just totally confused why you would want a 8" fork on a hardtail. you want a sledge hammer or a scalpel?


Simply - the same reason you would want to put it on a FS bike. Front traction is everything and when you go fast on a gnarly/bumpy terrain you want lots of it for the front.

The question should be, I think, why I use HT for DH/hard FR rides? Because I love it  I'm still a noob and I prefer having a good control of my rear wheel and traction not only with a rear brake.

and yes, you can b-hop easy with HT


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## Lunchbox362 (Jun 27, 2009)

mantasv said:


> Simply - the same reason you would want to put it on a FS bike. Front traction is everything and when you go fast on a gnarly/bumpy terrain you want lots of it for the front.
> 
> The question should be, I think, why I use HT for DH/hard FR rides? Because I love it  I'm still a noob and I prefer having a good control of my rear wheel and traction not only with a rear brake.
> 
> and yes, you can b-hop easy with HT


How tall is your bottom bracket?


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

mattf said:


> Nice video, that park looks like a lot of fun. Is that located in the town Boppard or is that the name of the resort?


Its in the town of Boppard, Germany.

Interesting little park/trail for sure. Silly steep. Which you cant really tell in the video...


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## nightofthefleming (Jun 14, 2009)

I can't find any info on this thing, all I know is it is a Woodman Dirtbike.

Found this on this random website

http://www.boutiquecycles.com/bikes/details/woodman_dirtbike/mountain/

Looks pretty cool to me


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## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

First session on the HT and it Rocks!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

Interesting experience. Riding HT makes you so more conscious on picking your line, landing and body position! My ankles did take a bit of a beating though but at the end of the day I did push it a bit on some of the drops.

The Splice is holding on alright and surprisingly smooth when hitting some of the drops/gaps I usually hit with my dually but still needs to get an upgrade ASAP.


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## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

*where did all the freeride hardtails go?*

Oh, here they are! i found them!


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## grahamjtriggs (Jun 26, 2005)

*NS Surge*

This is my old NS Bikes Surge! 
Steel hardtail frame, 160mm 36RC2s, but later changed to the Talas version, 110mm-150mm. I live in the Scotland, and ride big mountains (Cairngorms, Lake District, etc.). So a biiig climb with some hike-a-bike and a hugely rewarding technical descent of 2500ft  
A burly hardtail is ideal for this - *especially if fitted with an adjustable fork* to help with climbing. Simple is good when the weather is cold and wet like it is here and the short wheelbase is very agile on steep rocky stuff too.
The main reason for riding a HT for the last few years is that I'm a student and can't afford a FS frame. Steel/aluminium hardtails are the way forward for freeriders/AM riders on a budget. That said, I've just got a new Commencal Meta 5 frame  for my 21st. Not ridden it yet though...

Oh and it used to be yellow but I got it repainted in navy blue last year  it's the same bike.


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## GOONRock (Nov 18, 2010)

09 five-o deluxe with a few goodies


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## Combatcm (Nov 15, 2005)

Fun


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## hozzerr1 (Feb 26, 2005)

Cortina.


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## Berkley (May 21, 2007)

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=662287


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## Combatcm (Nov 15, 2005)

Does anyone else have a problem with the hardtail photo page....I can't load it with firefox?


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## bunnyhopbikes (Sep 2, 2009)

Here's some of my stuff


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## jasevr4 (Feb 23, 2005)

Craftworks Slalom Pro! Can't find a pic of my old one, but this one is pretty damn close!


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

My Gary Fisher PHD
I have a 140mm U-turn on there to wind down for dirt jumping
But I could easily swap in a 160mm fork for DH/FR


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## bunnyhopbikes (Sep 2, 2009)

deoreo said:


> My Gary Fisher PHD
> I have a 140mm U-turn on there to wind down for dirt jumping
> But I could easily swap in a 160mm fork for DH/FR


Great bike! But, don't swap the fork. It wont be covered for warranty, and more importantly, that frame rides horrible with a 160mm fork. Those biggn's frames ride great though at 100mm.


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

^^ Warranty? lol - that bike is from 2006.
The frame was designed around a 140mm (518mm A/C) fork.
It'll handle a 160mm (545mm A/C) fork nooooo problem...
Handling is subjective. It'd have a bit high bottom bracket around 14.5" with a 160mm fork,
but back then that was considered about perfect for freeride.

That is probably one of the most over-built frames in all of mountainbiking.
It has a full 1.5" headtube that is fully welded to that massive downtube.
the headtube has reinforcing rings built into the top and bottom...you'd probably 
break the fork before ripping off the headtube...lol.


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## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

bunnyhopbikes said:


> Here's some of my stuff


 what frame is the second one, looks nice


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## bunnyhopbikes (Sep 2, 2009)

mfrench2013 said:


> what frame is the second one, looks nice


Thanks, the frame is an Iron Horse Yakuza hardtail. Was made to accept up a 203mm dual crown fork.


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## SOILWORK (Jan 17, 2004)

Props to all you guys that freeride and downhill on hardtails:thumbsup: I'm not the smoothest rider out there, so a hardtail is out of the question for me. One of my riding buddies had a Clif Cat Tank Ass and that bike was sick!!! He had to wait a while for it to be built.


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## sambs827 (Dec 8, 2008)

still a few people rockin' them. This guy is tearing up Whistler with his Chromag, running a Lyrik dropped to 140. Basa$$.

http://www.pinkbike.com/v/102365/l/

hardtail in whistler on pinkbike.com


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## rrighteousdude (Dec 2, 2011)

I dont buy freeride bikes, i might in the future but i usually just learn and do all my tricks on hardtail mountain bikes, i had a kona and i was suprised how it held up with everything, their not bad bikes, but i dont see the point in paying over 1500 for a FS or a freeride, when i can handle all my jumps and downhill on a hardtail, but to be honest, when i buy a hardtail i do end up upgrading the fork/front suspension. next spring im getting myself a Trek 4300 Disc, Im sicked!!!


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

rrighteousdude said:


> I dont buy freeride bikes, i might in the future but i usually just learn and do all my tricks on hardtail mountain bikes, i had a kona and i was suprised how it held up with everything, their not bad bikes, but i dont see the point in paying over 1500 for a FS or a freeride, when i can handle all my jumps and downhill on a hardtail, but to be honest, when i buy a hardtail i do end up upgrading the fork/front suspension. next spring im getting myself a Trek 4300 Disc, Im sicked!!!


You are upgrading to a Trek 4300 for freeriding? That is an entry level XC hardtail.


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

mantasv said:


> Here is mine:


The Mrs. rides a bike just the same, but with less travel though.

She seems to like that bike very much.

Magura


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

Fireeye makes some real nice and affordable hardcore HT frames. 
The Bloodshot comes to mind, as being a good option for a FR HT bike.

I built up a Shortfuse 360 with a rigid fork a while ago, and it has turned into my do-it-all bike. The abuse that bike has taken so far without as much as a dent amazes me.


Magura


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Missed one. I rocked this thing s wheels off.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> ...I rocked this thing s wheels off...


dayum. fattie...


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## rrighteousdude (Dec 2, 2011)

no mostly for downhill but some freeriding yeah, i know you cant do as much on that as most freeride bikes but its still fun


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

rrighteousdude said:


> no mostly for downhill but some freeriding yeah, i know you cant do as much on that as most freeride bikes but its still fun


the point was that you are downgrading instead of upgrading like you think...


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## lew242 (Aug 7, 2008)

I tried HT freeride but it just didn't work for me, and loads of other people. The idea makes sense on paper and in the bank account, but it kinda fails on the trails. To take the amount of abuse for real Freeride you need a pretty heavy frame and fork (like a 55R or Domain), but this package on a HT is just unworkable IMO. This is because the advantages of a HT are its lightweight fun and line picking factor the advantage this combo kills that advantage, and the climbing sucks too. This weight on a FS bike can be much more easily molded to the terrain with better traction so this weight is less of an issue. 

Maybe something more of a park bike with a trail type fork like an STP with a Sektor U-turn might be more practical fun ride or city and trails.


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## fryed_1 (Nov 8, 2010)

I have an older rocky mountain flow with a fox 140 on it, 1x9 and a burly wheelset. It's heavy as far as HT go, but a hell of a lot of fun. It's my "in-between" bike that bridges the gap between my rigid 29er single speed and DH/FR rig.


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## lew242 (Aug 7, 2008)

Well a rocky mountain flow really is a DJ frame. But that's real cool. I'd love one of those with a reasonable 28mm wheel-set and a 5lb fork.


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## fryed_1 (Nov 8, 2010)

lew242 said:


> Well a rocky mountain flow really is a DJ frame. But that's real cool. I'd love one of those with a reasonable 28mm wheel-set and a 5lb fork.


Not the F2.0 and 3.0's. Sits a little higher than the DJ frames:


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## rrighteousdude (Dec 2, 2011)

dude im upgrading from what i had, i totally beat my Kona


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

rrighteousdude said:


> dude im upgrading from what i had, i totally beat my Kona


dude, a Trek 4300 is barley an upgrade from a WalMart bike. It is certaimly not a DH or FR bike. Go do some more research before you waste your cash. You said you'd be upgrading the fork....well to get a half way decent fork for FR will cost you more than the cost of the bike. Buy smart and get a bike suited for the riding you plan to do. In fact, you'd be wise to search PB for a nice used bike. 
I understand we are not all made of money (I know I'm not) but to buy the wrong bike just means spending more cash in the long run (the fork is a prime example). And it won't stop with the fork. A suitable fork for this type riding will need a 20mm hub up front which means you'll also need a new front wheel. In fact, the wheels that come on that bike will not stand up to FR or DH riding. The stem will be too long and a whole host of other issues will pop I'm sure. Again, look over at PinkBike. I know you'll find a much better suited bike.


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## rrighteousdude (Dec 2, 2011)

well i dont know where the hell you live but i did not buy my kona in walmart or ever seen a kona in walmart, Kona's are good bikes.


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

Crazy Hardtail Freeride Run with Dirtbike - YouTube

Hardtail Soul __ Jinya Nishiwaki.mp4 - YouTube

here, samples of two riders in highly disadvantage, from riding their hardtails....


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

rrighteousdude said:


> well i dont know where the hell you live but i did not buy my kona in walmart or ever seen a kona in walmart, Kona's are good bikes.


you are misunderstanding. your kona was/is a good bike, the trek is not. just because something is new, does not mean it's an upgrade. sure the trek isn't old and beat up, but it is still a piece of junk and you are only seeing how shiny the junk is instead of realizing it's just junk...
you are essentially retiring your trusty toyota tacoma and replacing it with a new subaru brat and thinking you are upgrading...


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## kt42 (Nov 17, 2011)

rrighteousdude said:


> no mostly for downhill but some freeriding yeah, i know you cant do as much on that as most freeride bikes but its still fun


All I can say is have fun doing dh and fr on an cheap aluminum ht frame... it isn't going to last long probably. Plus, like some other people said, getting a fork that can handle what you want to do (like say a RS Lyrik or something) is going to cost you as much as the complete bike, maybe more. And, getting a decent wheelset is probably also going to cost you as much as the bike. In addition, it doesn't matter how many upgrades that you get considering that you're putting everything on a cheap ht that's completely not suited (material, geometry, or otherwise) for your purposes. If you took some of your upgraded components off your Kona (I think you said you upgraded the fork) and got a steel ht frame for like $400-600 (like a Evil Sovereign, if you can find one), then this might be a lot better suited.


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