# Keep Breaking Spokes?



## BeaverTail (Aug 12, 2009)

My 2010 Rockhopper Comp Disc with "Alex RHD 26", pinned, alloy double wall, eyelets, 28h front and 32h rear" wheels. The rear wheel keeps breaking spokes, I have to keep bring it into the LBS to get them fixed, but they keep breaking, Not the fixed spokes but the original. 

My LBS is far away, is there anything I can do to solve this problem? Is it ok to ride on one broke spoke? I really hate going to the LBS. My brother bought a trek 4300 and it seems the wheels are incredibly stronger, they almost never bent and never have spokes break.


----------



## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

Combination of cheap spokes, machine built, and heavy rider

Specialized has a history of this, I was rebuilding wheels for them back in the early 00's. Your dealer needs to warranty the wheel and get you another one, once spokes start breaking from stress (vs accident damage), they'll continue. See if they'll rebuild the wheel with DT spokes...even if you got to pay a little it'll be worth it (BTW-Specialized reimbursed the dealer I worked for so the customer got a handbuilt wheel but Specialized provided the spokes. We talked most customers into paying for DT's as an upgrade.)


----------



## BeaverTail (Aug 12, 2009)

see the thing is my lbs really may not know what a DT spoke is? So, the rim I have is fine, but the wheel can be much better if I add high quality spokes. I really dont have hundreds of dollars to spend on spokes, if they are as expensive as they are at jenson. At that price wouldn't it just be better to get a better wheel set.


----------



## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

There is a name for bike shops that don't know what a DT spoke is...Wal-mart

There is no way an LBS doesn't know what DT spokes are, in fact that is probably what they are using to replace your broken spokes. Trust me, they know.

DT Champion 2.0 spokes cost $1 a spoke for black...that's $32 not "hundreds of dollars"


----------



## Psycho Mike (Apr 2, 2006)

DT has had a few bad runs, but there have also been some knock-off DT's out there. I had an issue with a Bontrager wheel...same thing, the rear was eating spokes left, right and centre. After the 2nd visit, the shop totally rebuilt the wheel and it was fine.

When I built up my first custom wheelset, I used double-butted DT's. After several thousand km's, taking a long travel XC bike to a small-scale gravity bike park and generally trail abusing the set with my clyde butt aboard, they've been superb. 

If it is an issue of original spokes constantly breaking, perhaps you should discuss a possible re-build with the shop. They may cover it (esp. if it is a chronic issue for that wheel) or offer you a discount...if they build it right, I'd guess you won't have any more issues.


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

what they said ^

If the wheel is well made spokes should not break ever.

DT spokes make it easier to make a good wheel.


----------



## TobyNobody (Mar 17, 2004)

Since it is a new bike the spoke breakage should be covered under warranty.

The problem is usually that the spokes were not properly tensioned when built... or not stress relieved so the first few rides do not pull the spokes into place and cause the tension to drop. Then you are effectively hanging on the top spokes (at max tension) and the bottom spokes are slack (zero tension). A revlution of an undertensioned wheel is like bending a coat-hanger back and forth over and over - it does not take long to break it.

A wheel needs to be tensioned such that the spokes never go completely slack under normal riding. It is possible that you LBS knows what DT spokes are, but does not know how to properly tension them. Find another shop that specializes in wheelbuilding and take your new spokes there and have the wheel tensioned... then bring it back to be retensiond after a few 100 miles of riding (or sooner if any of the spokes feel loose).

To recap:

New spokes should be provided under warranty by Specialized... but if you have to pay $40 to have an expert tension those spokes it would be money well spent.


----------



## BeaverTail (Aug 12, 2009)

mtnbiker72 said:


> There is a name for bike shops that don't know what a DT spoke is...Wal-mart
> 
> There is no way an LBS doesn't know what DT spokes are, in fact that is probably what they are using to replace your broken spokes. Trust me, they know.
> 
> DT Champion 2.0 spokes cost $1 a spoke for black...that's $32 not "hundreds of dollars"


Is there a way I can tell?, a marking or something. My LBS had no idea what cromoly was so idk.


----------



## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

BeaverTail said:


> Is there a way I can tell?, a marking or something. My LBS had no idea what cromoly was so idk.


Look at the head of the spoke (at the hub), it will have "DT" stamped on it. The other less common but just as good quality is Wheelsmith, it will have a "W" stamped on the spoke head.


----------



## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

mtnbiker72 said:


> Look at the head of the spoke (at the hub), it will have "DT" stamped on it. The other less common but just as good quality is Wheelsmith, it will have a "W" stamped on the spoke head.


Anything with an S or N or other letter, or blank is generally a bad sign.

Once you start breaking 2 or 3 spokes on a wheel, replacing them one by one is generally a waste of time. More will keep breaking.

The wheel should be replaced or re-built with new spokes.


----------



## BeaverTail (Aug 12, 2009)

My old spokes have a Cn or a nD on them, that is a Big V with a small n or a small n and a Big D. The new replaced spokes seem to have a W or a stylized M. MY brothers 4300 wheels have a S on them.


So it looks like the W wheelsmith logo, so are these good?


----------



## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

Top wheel builders pretty much go with DT Swiss spokes or Sapim. DT Swiss will have DT embossed in the flange head, Sapim will be embossed about an inch down from the flange with "SAPIM"


Wheelsmith spokes should do the job for you, if the builder is good and knows what he is doing.


----------



## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

I saw this thread and imediatly thought, "specialized!" and sure enough, tis a rockhopper!

Specialized uses el cheapo, thin spokes. I kept breaking them and the LBS decided to upgrade me to Sun rhyno-lites laced to deore hubs with nice DT comp 2.0 spokes

it's an awesome Clyde setup and i think BWW has the whole wheelset for like 170 clams.


----------



## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

BeaverTail said:


> My old spokes have a Cn or a nD on them, that is a Big V with a small n or a small n and a Big D. The new replaced spokes seem to have a W or a stylized M. MY brothers 4300 wheels have a S on them.
> 
> So it looks like the W wheelsmith logo, so are these good?


Wheelsmith are everything as good as DT...just not as common. I've used both, in fact my road bike wheels that I built in 2002 are still going strong with Wheelsmith 14DB spokes.


----------



## BeaverTail (Aug 12, 2009)

So I can ask my LBS for better rims with better spokes and specialized will likely reimburse them for it.


----------



## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

BeaverTail said:


> So I can ask my LBS for better rims with better spokes and specialized will likely reimburse them for it.


No, Specialized *may* cover the wheel getting rebuilt and may cover the spokes. The rim will be reused. You need to discuss this with your LBS before assuming anything.


----------



## fallzboater (Jan 18, 2004)

If you're heavy and you've been riding off road on an undertensioned OE wheel, there's a good chance your rim is a bit tweaked now, too. I'd either have the hub relaced with a strong (probably 500g+) rim like a Mavic 521 and DT Comps (not Champs), or buy a new pair of wheels for $200 from BWW or another vendor. I don't have a lot of confidence in random LBS wrenches; you'd need to do some research to figure out who knows what they're doing.


----------



## unfriendlyGiant (Apr 15, 2008)

*Same Here....*

I used to have this problem....breaking a spoke nearly every ride. Someone suggested to tighten the loose ones up every few rides. I did and haven't seen a spoke break since.


----------



## BeaverTail (Aug 12, 2009)

if I were to get new wheels, which seems the route the LBS is leaning towards, what should I be looking at. I really have no care in the world about the weight of the rims, if heavier rims imply stronger rims then I want heavier rims.


----------



## TobyNobody (Mar 17, 2004)

BeaverTail said:


> if I were to get new wheels, which seems the route the LBS is leaning towards, what should I be looking at. I really have no care in the world about the weight of the rims, if heavier rims imply stronger rims then I want heavier rims.


Honestly, a lot of people are always pushing their favourite rims (like rhinolites, which I think are carpola) and hubs and stuff... but none of that matters if the wheel is not properly built and maintained... Just get any non-superlight rim and good spokes and make sure they are properly tensioned and you will have no problem.


----------



## FBinNY (Nov 7, 2008)

I'm coming in at the end so to speak, but IMO any LBS unfamiliar with DT spokes is probably not skilled enough to be repairing wheels properly.

Your best, and least expensive option is to find a different shop with a reputation for quality wheel work and have them rebuild your wheels with quality double butted spokes. DT is a great brand but not the only one.

The reason I suggest double butted spokes is that they're more resilient and usually result in more durable wheels. Depending on the overall condition of your rim, you might be able to re-use it, but I generally consider doing so false economy.

So you'll need to pay for rim, Stainless DB spokes and labor, but that should be much less than a comparable quality complete wheel would cost. If there's no decent LBS handy, give these folks a holler; Yellow Jersey. They do great work, have a vast selection of rims, and offer super fast turnaround. Depending on transit time, there's a good chance you could mail them your hub, and have a wheel back on your bike without missing a weekend.

So much for the wheel, now consider that you may also be part of the problem. Larger riders (tell the builder what you weight) are almost always more likely to break spokes, but riding style is also a big factor. Over the years I've met many small riders who broke spokes, including a 115# ballerina who was death on her wheels, because she rode like a gorilla, and I've also known gorillas who never broke spokes because they rode like ballerinas. When you get your new wheel back, learn to help it by getting out of the saddle for hard bumps and letting your knees flex to act like a suspension system allowing the bike to glide over them.


----------



## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

TobyNobody said:


> Honestly, a lot of people are always pushing their favourite rims (like rhinolites, which I think are carpola) and hubs and stuff...* but none of that matters if the wheel is not properly built and maintained..*. Just get any non-superlight rim and good spokes and make sure they are properly tensioned and you will have no problem.


a 400 gram rim is going to kick a 650 gram rims ass if the heavy one isnt tensioned up right!

500 grams isnt very much though. 450-500g is a really good general abuse weight. a mavic 719 is about 480 grams and nearly bulletproof when build up right. im really digging sun equalizers right now too. the overall weight doesnt indicate strength. a 2.0 spoked rhynolite with a deore hub is going to weigh 1300 grams! id trust that less than a hope/719 double butted build. saves a whole pound right there.


----------



## jaewannabe (Jun 4, 2009)

I had the same problem as you on my stumpjumper, every ride i was breaking spokes and went through 2 freewheel hubs, after puting over $150 into my rear wheel I went with mavic deetraks. They are not light but they are tough for us bigger riders.
http://wheelworld.com/product/mavic-08-deetraks-wheelset-32058-1.htm


----------



## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Again, I'm coming in at the end of this discussion, but I have two quick points. 
1. I disagree with FB above me in that building with double butted spokes will not be as strong as building with a straight gauge 2.0. Less material in this case will not yield stronger spokes. If you're having trouble with spokes stick with straight gague.

2. Most people don't think about this but when you break a spoke it instantly transfers all the tension that was held in that spoke around the wheel to the other spokes like a gun shot (the ping sound). This weakens the remaining spokes. Each time you blow another spoke, it sends the wave around again weakening more spokes in the process. Combine that with the need to re-tension spokes to get the wheel right and the likely situation of riding a bit with the blown spoke(s) and you can see how all this metal fatigue adds up. 

My point is that once you have blown more than 2 spokes in a wheel you should get it re-laced or face constant breaking spokes. The upfront labor and parts will be worth the dozens of trips to the shop. Your rim should be fine to reuse unless it is seriously out of true or badly dented or worn.


----------



## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

people have ran db spokes for downhill racing. its plenty strong, theres some arguments saying they're stronger. straight 2.0 spokes are usually used to keep costs down, even though its marginal at this point.


----------



## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

I see, did some reading, and it seems like there are pretty sound arguments against what I said and I have neither the time nor the strain gauges needed to determine an actual analytical answer. So I will say I never said they weren't strong enough for DH. I just was thinking that for people who are breaking spokes because of damaging a spoke will find a straight gauge spoke to be more durable. It is true that most spokes break near the hub flange where a butted or straight spoke will retain the same size, so I'll just shut up now.


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I am under the firm belief that DT DB spokes are stronger than the straight guage.

There are two reasons for this:

1: DT says they are, and they know their spokes better than anyone.
2: the spokes are stretchier therefore will distribute uneven force between multiple spokes better. therefore less likely to snap.


----------



## DionM (Nov 17, 2009)

What everyone else has said - respoke with good spokes (DT Swiss) and you'll be good to go.

I broke a bunch of spokes on my standard rear wheel on my 06 Yukon. I was around 120kgs at the time, plus another 15kgs in panniers, and I often had a chariot kid trailer attached - it had had a hard life. Complete wheel respoke with DT Swiss and so far, so good. It's not "cheap" but you're paying for the quality.


----------



## BeaverTail (Aug 12, 2009)

Id like to thank everybody here for the help. In the end, the LBS agreed via communications with specialized to just replace all the spokes on the wheel with higher quality spokes. The LBS did not use DT, but used Wheelsmith instead and so far I have had no any breaks. 

IM really glad specialized and the LBS agreed to do this, it has affirmed my trust of specialized as a company.


Thanks for all the help everybody.


----------



## TobyNobody (Mar 17, 2004)

BeaverTail said:


> Id like to thank everybody here for the help. In the end, the LBS agreed via communications with specialized to just replace all the spokes on the wheel with higher quality spokes. The LBS did not use DT, but used Wheelsmith instead and so far I have had no any breaks.
> 
> IM really glad specialized and the LBS agreed to do this, it has affirmed my trust of specialized as a company.
> 
> Thanks for all the help everybody.


That is great news...

the last shop I worked in sold Specialized and we had a hell of a time with broken spokes, although mostly only on hybrids. It was after I left there that I learned more about spoke breakage and realized that if we had taken the time to tension the wheels before the bikes left there likely would not have been a problem.

So your assignment, beavertail, is: Check your wheel after a few 100s kms of riding and to ensure all the spokes are still nice and tight, and either bring them back to the shop for retensioning or learn to do it yourself. This is the trick that will keep your wheels rolling for a long long time.


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

My Stumpjumper has skinny DT Swiss spokes also. I commented on the alloy nipples when I bought the bike and the kid in the store told me they'd be fine because the suspension soaks up the hits and helps them live... I thought yeah, we'll see. 

Long story short, I keep breaking the nipples. I replaced them all with brass and now all is well.


----------

