# Presented without comment: New Schwalbe "Moto Style" E-bike Tires



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

https://bikerumor.com/2018/07/28/eb18-schwalbe-goes-airless-adds-more-sizes-moto-style-emtb-tires/

"All new for e-Bikes are the new Eddy Current front and rear specific eMTB tires. They use a blocky tread design similar to motocross tires. That plus an Gravity casing and extra soft, grippy rubber helps handle the extra heft added by a battery and motor. They also match up with one of the trends we saw for e-mountain bikes: Mismatched tire sizes. The Eddy Current front is a 29er, available in 2.4 and 2.6 widths, while the Eddy Current rear is a 27.5×2.8.

It's not just these tires that are e-Bike ready. Virtually every model shown in this story has an e-rated equivalent with higher speed ratings, or is simply e-certified for the lower 25km/h rating even in its standard casing and construction."

-Walt


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The Schwalbe Eddy 27.5 x 2.8 is 1350gms, that’s more than a DH tire weighs.

Chunk Tough and Kennebec Durable are also super beefy, ~1200gms.

These tougher and thicker casing tires are hard to set up tubeless, just something to keep in mind.

Granted ebikes are heavier than non ebikes, but Class I ebikes don’t really demand this much tire, a typical mtb tire like Rekon would suffice unless you’re hammering downhill, in which case your tire choices need be no different than what you’d chose for downhill or enduro.

A tire in the 900-1000gm range is enough for 95% of ebike riders.

Excessive tire weight drastically affects bike handling handling; ebikes are still bikes on the down.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

Quite a contrast between the e-bike tires and the Racing Ray/Ralph. I did a double take to look at the Racing Ralph, since so many knobs were packed onto it...

I guess I'll wait for the reviews, since I'm curious who needs that reinforcing on the front of their e-bike. I know there's novices who weigh over 100kg out there, but then again there are people happily riding e13 TRS Race tires, which are notorious for their slow rolling and weight (~1100g 29x2.35).

I suppose when you got a motor to help carry all that weight uphill, and it helps keep you in control, the idea has merit in this application. Makes me wonder what else hasn't been e-bike optimized yet. Wonder if any riders are installing e-bike optimized stuff on their non-motorized mtbs, perhaps for the extra durability.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Hmmm. Could one brand CO2 canisters and air pumps as e specific I wonder....While there are regs in the EU that allow you to brand a tire e specific for use on speed pedelecs it is my experience that any quality tubeless type tire will do the job. 

As far as the foam core thing, 51psi tires are not going to get much interest in the eMTB market place where 20psi +/- is more the norm for obvious reasons. Tubeless is fine and my message to the bike industry is to stop trying to reinvent the wheel.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It’s not about “carrying the weight”, it’s about how the added tire weight affects handling. 

Ebike “power” only provides assistance for forward movement, it doesn’t aid handling.

The most significant downside to ebikes I have noticed when I put a novice on my wife’s ebike is the difficulty they have with handling a heavy bike; my wife has some struggle, but has adapted to a degree.

I think these super heavy “ebike” branded tires are aimed at throttled ebikes.

I’m actually looking at swapping to lighter tires on my wife’s bike; she has Purgatory Grid 27.5 x 3 now, looking at Rekon 2.8, ~200gms lighter Shorter cranks make that swap possible now, previously she had terrible pedal strike and shorter tires were a no go.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

It reinforces the the differences between bicycles and motorized bikes nicely, adding space between the two. A point that won't be lost on many that make decisions, some of them important ones.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Personally, I worry about the nascent industry going this direction. If you keep adding heavier/beefier parts, you're going to want to keep adding more power, and then even beefier stuff, etc. Do we really need "moto style" tires? E-bike specific parts? 

The goal should be *really* minimalist motor/battery that provide just enough assist to make mountain biking accessible to people who struggle with the effort/duration. The more e-bikes diverge, the less chance they can be integrated into existing trail systems, and the more they'll just be associated with motorcycles in the eyes of LMs and the general public. 

-Walt


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Walt said:


> Personally, I worry about the nascent industry going this direction. If you keep adding heavier/beefier parts, you're going to want to keep adding more power, and then even beefier stuff, etc. Do we really need "moto style" tires? E-bike specific parts?
> 
> The goal should be *really* minimalist motor/battery that provide just enough assist to make mountain biking accessible to people who struggle with the effort/duration. The more e-bikes diverge, the less chance they can be integrated into existing trail systems, and the more they'll just be associated with motorcycles in the eyes of LMs and the general public.
> 
> -Walt


There are going to be throttle controlled ebikes with a lot of power, which is why the Class system is so important, to weed those out when necessary. These tires are clearly aimed at them.

It kills me how people ignore the weight math on eBikes. My two Class 1 ebikes each weigh 47-48lb. I weigh 190lb. My son weighs 150lb. My son on one of my ebikes is way lighter than me on my 22lb XC MTB, and no one thinks twice about that.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

honkinunit said:


> There are going to be throttle controlled ebikes with a lot of power, which is why the Class system is so important, to weed those out when necessary. These tires are clearly aimed at them.
> 
> It kills me how people ignore the weight math on eBikes. My two Class 1 ebikes each weigh 47-48lb. I weigh 190lb. My son weighs 150lb. My son on one of my ebikes is way lighter than me on my 22lb XC MTB, and no one thinks twice about that.


You on one of your e-motorbikes weighs more than you on your 22 lb xc mtb too.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

honkinunit said:


> There are going to be throttle controlled ebikes with a lot of power, which is why the Class system is so important, to weed those out when necessary. These tires are clearly aimed at them.
> 
> It kills me how people ignore the weight math on eBikes. My two Class 1 ebikes each weigh 47-48lb. I weigh 190lb. My son weighs 150lb. My son on one of my ebikes is way lighter than me on my 22lb XC MTB, and no one thinks twice about that.


Tell me more. I'm 135 lbs. Is a 48 lb ebike really that bad? I've pedaled some 35 lb beasts uphill with prob another 12* lbs in my backpack. Wasn't that bad; I bet I could ride with my group, if it weren't for the 2.3 tires rolling all over, despite pumping them up to 35 psi. The rear was making hard dinging sounds rolling over rounded gutter-curb that a 29er trail bike pretty much ignores. I tear the casings on EXO and Conti Protection tires from just plowing them into granite rocks (which admittedly are super grippy). *maybe it was a lot more than 12 lbs. xD

I guess I was hoping to see someone try to ride these tires to their limit, not hear about lightweight folk say it's not for them. I wanted to see just how durable they are, because I know I have a problem with destroying tires before their tread goes bald. I'm no weight weenie, and I'm no racer/Strava type. I just put down a lot of miles (over 150 mi/week) and tend to ride fast as my fitness allows, yet as passive as possible--I leave it to the gear to handle the abuse, yet don't add too much speed to the point that I have to use the brakes more, trying to keep things to a decent challenge level. Durability is something I'm very interested in.

I'm not too interested in the DH/thrill-seeking culture, but more of the adventure culture. I'm more likely to demand weight be added on (not dead weight), as I want integrated features: lights (that also work as brake lights, possibly even turn signals), fenders, racks, low maintenance gearbox, mirrors, dashcam, etc. I'm here talking myself into buying one anyways, since I'm fine with fireroads if it means there's no arbitrary speed cut-off. If I'm riding moto trails anyways, throttle will be useful to get up tight spots where you'd pedal strike. Fireroads are fun, as long as you ride 'em fast. That's why there's a whole bike style designed for it: gravel grinders.


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## ruthabagah (Jun 4, 2018)

Nurse Ben said:


> .
> 
> I'm actually looking at swapping to lighter tires on my wife's bike; she has Purgatory Grid 27.5 x 3 now, looking at Rekon 2.8, ~200gms lighter Shorter cranks make that swap possible now, previously she had terrible pedal strike and shorter tires were a no go.


Would you be able to report on the improvement once you do the change? I will most likely be replacing the Purgatory on one of my Levos sometimes this fall and would like to go with a lighter tire.


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

Walt said:


> Personally, I worry about the nascent industry going this direction. If you keep adding heavier/beefier parts, you're going to want to keep adding more power, and then even beefier stuff, etc. Do we really need "moto style" tires? E-bike specific parts?
> 
> The goal should be *really* minimalist motor/battery that provide just enough assist to make mountain biking accessible to people who struggle with the effort/duration. The more e-bikes diverge, the less chance they can be integrated into existing trail systems, and the more they'll just be associated with motorcycles in the eyes of LMs and the general public.
> 
> -Walt


Well said Walt, thats all I would want, wish it was available presently.


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

Ebikes need ebike specific tires because regular mountain bike tires can't hack it? So... who was it that was arguing that these things are "just mountain bikes" again?


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Lemonaid said:


> Ebikes need ebike specific tires because regular mountain bike tires can't hack it? So... who was it that was arguing that these things are "just mountain bikes" again?


Did you read the thread? The answers are in here.

Oh, you didn't.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Class 1 ebikes don't need special tires, an extra 15-20# isn't that much added weight.

A throttled ebike that acts like a motorcycle might need more tire.

Like Walt suggested, branding is to sell products to people who don't know any better.



Lemonaid said:


> Ebikes need ebike specific tires because regular mountain bike tires can't hack it? So... who was it that was arguing that these things are "just mountain bikes" again?


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

It's more like some people might need the tires, but don't want to pedal that weight up around. The ebike is sort of an enabler, as the motor assist helps carry those massive tires up the hill, along with everything else they want, like bombproof wheels, flat proof tire inserts, a kickstand, fenders, cargo carrying capacity, etc. Basically the opposite of weight weenie stuff... I saw an "e-SUV" in another article, and I liked the name of it. Not everyone's after stuff that makes them faster.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

I love the Jumbo Jims on my Haibike Full FatSix. However.... I'd love to see less a focus on speed rating and more a focus on a tire casing that isn't prone to allowing little thorns from piercing the tire, Mr Tuffy tire liner and tube. And no, I'm not interested in the tire sealant goop stuff.....


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Walt said:


> Personally, I worry about the nascent industry going this direction. If you keep adding heavier/beefier parts, you're going to want to keep adding more power, and then even beefier stuff, etc. Do we really need "moto style" tires? E-bike specific parts?
> 
> The goal should be *really* minimalist motor/battery that provide just enough assist to make mountain biking accessible to people who struggle with the effort/duration. The more e-bikes diverge, the less chance they can be integrated into existing trail systems, and the more they'll just be associated with motorcycles in the eyes of LMs and the general public.
> 
> -Walt


The industry is going in both directions, some companies in one direction, and some in the other, with at least Bulls trying to have a foot in both camps.

https://ebike-mtb.com/en/bulls-e-mtb-news-2019/

You can have a 35lb emtb that is focused on just providing moderate power on the climbs, or a sub 50lb 150mm trailbike with lots of torque and a battery as big as they come.

Plus, the e-suv, which seems to be a new product niche that mimics what the DIY guys have been doing for years.

I think that we're basically at the limit of what a conventional mtb drivetrain can withstand, it'll be interesting to see how they hold up with this years crop of higher torque motors. I fully expect to see a segment of the market to shift to integrated motor/transmission combos like this, it really only makes sense as power increases.

https://ebike-mtb.com/en/mubea-e-mobility/

Back on topic, "moto inspired" tires have been around for ages. This was my favorite tire for years, it was fat for the day and didn't have a DH casing so was managable.









If Schwalbe made these in a conventional trailbike casing and rubber durometer, I'd bet they'd sell well. Otherwise, climbing with essentially a heavy, sticky DH tire sucks.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

MikeTowpathTraveler said:


> I love the Jumbo Jims on my Haibike Full FatSix. However.... I'd love to see less a focus on speed rating and more a focus on a tire casing that isn't prone to allowing little thorns from piercing the tire, Mr Tuffy tire liner and tube. And no, I'm not interested in the tire sealant goop stuff.....


Im knocking on wood as I say this, I have not had a flat (except a burp) in at least 5 years using goop stuff.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

MikeTowpathTraveler said:


> I love the Jumbo Jims on my Haibike Full FatSix. However.... I'd love to see less a focus on speed rating and more a focus on a tire casing that isn't prone to allowing little thorns from piercing the tire, Mr Tuffy tire liner and tube. And no, I'm not interested in the tire sealant goop stuff.....


The tire sealant goop stuff ( stans or orange seal) that prevents almost all flats for me? 1 in 4 years. Try a tubeless rim, a good tire like Maxxis and some sealant. Or not.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Guys, I appreciate your perspectives with the tire sealant, I really do. It's just not for me. Seems I get a rash of flats every spring as the winter gives way to lotsa debris on the roadways hidden by snow and ice and those pesky thorns that seem to be present on the canals in early spring. Then things quiet down on the flat tire front until the next spring. 

But yeah, I do dream of some German researchers with Schwalbe working in their labs on a new steel belted 120 tpi fat tire that is relatively lightweight and a flat fighter too!


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

MikeTowpathTraveler said:


> Guys, I appreciate your perspectives with the tire sealant, I really do. It's just not for me. Seems I get a rash of flats every spring as the winter gives way to lotsa debris on the roadways hidden by snow and ice and those pesky thorns that seem to be present on the canals in early spring. Then things quiet down on the flat tire front until the next spring.
> 
> But yeah, I do dream of some German researchers with Schwalbe working in their labs on a new steel belted 120 tpi fat tire that is relatively lightweight and a flat fighter too!


Why deal with that? Tire sealant isn't hard to work with, and it sure beats all those flats. I had a ride recently where I got 6 punctures in my front tire during the ride. Of course, thanks to the sealant my tire never went flat and I just kept on going. When you mention a "rash of flats" that really makes you sound like the ideal candidate for sealant.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Walt said:


> https://bikerumor.com/2018/07/28/eb18-schwalbe-goes-airless-adds-more-sizes-moto-style-emtb-tires/
> 
> "All new for e-Bikes are the new Eddy Current front and rear specific eMTB tires. They use a blocky tread design similar to motocross tires. That plus an Gravity casing and extra soft, grippy rubber helps handle the extra heft added by a battery and motor. They also match up with one of the trends we saw for e-mountain bikes: Mismatched tire sizes. The Eddy Current front is a 29er, available in 2.4 and 2.6 widths, while the Eddy Current rear is a 27.5×2.8.
> 
> ...


My question is, will these new Schwalbe e-bike tires manage to retain their tread blocks?


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

OMG you loved the Factory XC and Factory DH tires too?

Tioga just said f it, we're making square knobs. We're spacing them out at a reasonable interval. We're not making a tire that looks like someone was inspired by a box of Lucky Charms. 

Those were great tires. I rode them exclusively for DH for years. 

Damn, we're old.

-Walt


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Walt said:


> Personally, I worry about the nascent industry going this direction. If you keep adding heavier/beefier parts, you're going to want to keep adding more power, and then even beefier stuff, etc. Do we really need "moto style" tires? E-bike specific parts?
> 
> The goal should be *really* minimalist motor/battery that provide just enough assist to make mountain biking accessible to people who struggle with the effort/duration. The more e-bikes diverge, the less chance they can be integrated into existing trail systems, and the more they'll just be associated with motorcycles in the eyes of LMs and the general public.
> -Walt


I don't see a big market for this type of tire currently, but that market is certain to grow. Mountain bikes have been moving to bigger tires, and more suspension travel for some time now. To some degree, it's been limited by the fact that you've got to pedal all that goodness up hills. Adding a motor will reduce the penalty in that area.

Wishing away throttles (not that a throttle matters one whit IMO) and high-powered / heavy e-bikes is as futile as wishing away class 1 e-bikes, or ATVs and motorcycles for that matter. People will want them, and the market will provide them. There might be some bike or e-bike riders that would hop on a 1000w e-bike and say "this sucks" or "250 watts is just right", but I think they would be in the minority.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

The chain being on the opposite side piqued my curiosity, so I looked up that pic that Harryman posted. Wow, just wow. That kind of innovation didn't make it to production?









If the ebike movement makes this happen, I'd be very interested. I'd love to get away from the roadie style bikes and more towards things that more fundamentally handle the demands of off road.

Sorry for the off-topic post.

I swore off weight weenie tires ages ago for my mtb. Slowly phasing out everything that resembles the road racing culture.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

ninjichor said:


> If the ebike movement makes this happen, I'd be very interested.


Decades old tech? You can have it.


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