# Still can't bunny hop, any advice?



## williek (Feb 8, 2017)

I've been trying to bunny hop for the past 6 months. Got a new FS 29er that's slacker and longer but it doesn't help. I can only get the front fork up maybe 8". the back maybe 4". I can independently pop the front or back up but I just can't combine the too. I took some riding lessons/clinic and the instructor couldn't help me at all. His stupid advice was to just lock my arms out and lean all the way back. Looped out about 5 times before I got fed up with his crap advice. 

I'm wondering if part of the problem is the 29er wheels and maybe the slacker bike. Chainstays are somewhat short but I guess I'm not getting far enough back. I can't wheelie or manual either as I don't get far enough back or down or so I am guessing. The bike is the appropriate size. 

I'm wondering if I should just get a bmx bike to practice on. Small wheels should be easier get up right? Also the bike probably weighs a good 10lbs less.


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## williek (Feb 8, 2017)

And I've had the bike fit to me so that's somewhat correct. I also used some online systems and the rad, reach, etc are all within .5cm. My problem seems to be getting far enough back while keeping my back upright.


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## hdparrish (Jan 24, 2008)

williek said:


> I took some riding lessons/clinic and the instructor couldn't help me at all. His stupid advice was to just lock my arms out and lean all the way back. Looped out about 5 times before I got fed up with his crap advice.


As one who is also not the best at bunny hopping, you have my sympathies. However, this isn't "crap advice." The key to getting the fork well off the ground (and keeping it there long enough to compress and rock forward to lift up the rear) is to use your legs and your weight with your arms essentially locked out. If you pull with your arms and/or your back, the fork will immediately slam back down since it is still weighted, and you'll never have time to tuck and transfer.

Again, I am not very good at hopping, but the best way I can describe it is you weight the front, then drop down and rock back, pushing through the pedals with your arms relatively straight. You've really gotta push through those pedals, I don't know how else to describe it.

Looping out is part of the learning curve. I'd recommend practicing wheelies on grass at a park. Once you are comfortable getting the front off the ground and have found your balance point, then maybe graduate to bunny hopping?


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## williek (Feb 8, 2017)

hdparrish said:


> As one who is also not the best at bunny hopping, you have my sympathies. However, this isn't "crap advice." The key to getting the fork well off the ground (and keeping it there long enough to compress and rock forward to lift up the rear) is to use your legs and your weight with your arms essentially locked out. If you pull with your arms and/or your back, the fork will immediately slam back down since it is still weighted, and you'll never have time to tuck and transfer.
> 
> Again, I am not very good at hopping, but the best way I can describe it is you weight the front, then drop down and rock back, pushing through the pedals with your arms relatively straight. You've really gotta push through those pedals, I don't know how else to describe it.
> 
> Looping out is part of the learning curve. I'd recommend practicing wheelies on grass at a park. Once you are comfortable getting the front off the ground and have found your balance point, then maybe graduate to bunny hopping?


Well, his advice was crappy because I kept my legs bent and never used them to push the pedals. He saw nothing wrong with that. Was just telling me to lean back and look at the sky and the front would come up. That just resulted in looping out time and time again.

I know it's technique and I need t practice but after his bad advice and looping out I now hesitate. I'm thinking of picking up a bmx bike and seeing if it's easier to manual/wheelie and bunny hop. Then one I get it down I can try on my 29er.


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## hdparrish (Jan 24, 2008)

As someone who once explained to me said: the key to wheelies, manuals, bunny hops, and stoppies is to throw yourself into a near-wreck and then recover.

His advice was a bit tongue in cheek, but the point is there--your bike starts in a stable situation and, through some judicial manipulation of weight and force, you take it to the edge of disaster. I think some folks are just naturally better at overcoming that instinct to remain stable.

Didn't you have a similar thread last year? Sorry things aren't progressing. Like I said, I'm not the best at these maneuvers, so hopefully someone with more skill and insight will come along and help.


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## DC2.2GSR (Apr 12, 2012)

Part of bunny hopping or anything similar is just "feel", as I'm sure you've frustratingly heard many people say. At some point you'll get it, and everything will click. Until then it will be a series of annoying failures. Unfortunately, there's no amount of analyzing or book learnin' you can do that will really help you. It's not about the bike or wheel size. If you're physically fit and coordinated enough to stand on flat ground and hop in the air, at some point, after doing it many, many times, you'll understand how to coordinate your movements in order to make it happen on your bike. 

I used to skateboard, and when trying to teach people to ollie, or even working on any trick on my own, I had to go over or onto something, and teach others to do the same. It doesn't matter if it was over a few people's stacked boards, onto a loading dock or curb, or over a crack in the sidewalk. There must be some sort of object there as a goal to get everything to come together. Maybe that's just me, but it always seemed to work. 

What always helped me visualize what I needed to do was thinking about how a horse or dog might jump over an obstacle. They don't just leap in the air with all four paws at once. That's some freaky horror movie stuff. They lift their front first, then shift their weight forward as they push off with their back paws. It's that weight shift combined with forward travel that gets them over stuff. You on your bike are no different. Little front lift, little push with the pedals as you shift your hands and weight forward. Small movements combined with forward speed will mean that you actually get some air. 

Are you trying to hop over something or are you just riding around on flat ground trying to hop over nothing? If nothing, you may be trying to go too big and that's what's holding you back. I'd grab a 2x4 and lay it down on the ground and just go nuts. If you make it over, then great. Mission accomplished. If not, it's just a bump in the road. 

Having something small there in front of you means that you will not need to go super big in order to feel a success. When you start to get it, you'll feel no bump, which means you bunny hopped just fine, but on a small scale. You can then step it up after time and more practice. Try it with speed, then slower. Try going at an angle to it, then straight on. 

You mentioned being able to lift the front, and also the back independently. Well, use that to your advantage. Ride slowly toward the 2x4 or even a small curb. Lift the front a bit in a tiny manual as you approach, just enough to get the front wheel over the 2x4 or onto the curb. It's now rolling on the other side or on the sidewalk. You'll then need to shift your weight forward onto the front wheel, push the bars straight in front of you, and hop your feet a little to get the back wheel up. 

You might bump the curb or board a little, but if you do this and ride away, you've essentially bunny hopped, it just looks and feels a little different. A bunny hop is exactly that, but instead of going onto it slowly, you do that same exact motion with some speed. Just visualize what's necessary to get over it, and then put together the things you know you can already do in order to get it done. 

This whole post is ultimately useless if you don't go out and try and fail. You can't technically analyze yourself or your equipment choices into success. Hop that board or onto a curb over and over again until it starts to make sense.


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## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

I've been told over and over to do the same thing - lean back into a manual and fire your hips forward, then shove the bike in front of you. But I can't go from a manual to firing my hips forward.

I recently learned a few new "cues" from Lee McCormack's site - he recommends that you preload the bike and shift back enough just to create tension, not shifting all your weight back behind the seat. Once you've preloaded and shifted back a bit, fire the hips forward while standing tall and rowing the handlebars to your waist. Then, shove the bars forward/up while crouching to land.

I still haven't gotten it down either after practicing this for months. But, I feel like Lee's cues work a lot better. I can get both wheels in the air no problem just by going from the attack position to firing my hips towards the bars and shoving.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I like this kid, he seems to put it together nicely.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

williek said:


> . Looped out about 5 times before I got fed up with his crap advice. .


Sounds like your main problem is you're impatient.
You need to go loop out another 995 times or so and things will start to click.

Yes a bmx will be somewhat easier in certain ways - 29ers mainly lend themselves to being sit-n-spin machines more than they do to pulling tricks. But again, if you think you're going to plop down a few bucks on a 20" bike and all of a sudden be manualing all over the place and hopping picnic tables, you better reset your expectations right off the bat. You're most likely going to loop out so fast you bust your ass on the pavement a few hundred times before you even start feeling remotely at home on the bike.

I don't understand why so many people think they can learn to manual/wheelie/hop after a couple 'tips' and a bare minimum of practice. (Also don't understand what kind of mindset it takes to blame someone else for one's lack of skill/perseverance.) Just because some people make it look easy, doesn't mean it is.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

williek said:


> I've been trying to bunny hop for the past 6 months. Got a new FS 29er that's slacker and longer but it doesn't help. I can only get the front fork up maybe 8". the back maybe 4". I can independently pop the front or back up but I just can't combine the too. I took some riding lessons/clinic and the instructor couldn't help me at all. His stupid advice was to just lock my arms out and lean all the way back. Looped out about 5 times before I got fed up with his crap advice.


His advice wasn't crappy. It's the first step in the process. If you can't do step 1 correctly, then you can't progress to step 2. You're just an impatient fool.

You need to get back to practicing and busting your ass until you figure out how NOT to bust your ass. Some people learn that one faster than others, and if you're a slow one, you can't rush it. You just have to keep working on it until your body figures it out. Take more lessons from more coaches. Watch more videos thousands of times. Watch other riders. Keep practicing.

Maybe it'll be years before you really nail this maneuver. I've been riding for 20 years now and I haven't even bothered trying to learn this specific type of bunny hop until the past year or two. So far I've managed to get far enough in that time that I can get a small one at trail speed and only if I've got a good approach/exit from the log I'm trying to hop. I'm not good enough at it to do it while practicing in a field. I've looped out (painfully) a couple times, and now I'm a little gunshy about the manual maneuver to get my front wheel up far enough to hold it. But that's part of it. I keep working on it and I slowly improve.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Your short chainstay slacker bike will make it easier to do this than a long chainstay XC bike. That's just an excuse. Bunny hopping is such a weird thing to instruct over the internet. It would be like teaching someone a backflip on a trampoline on the internet through the written word or youtube video.
More useless internet written advice:
If you are "looping out" with the instruction of your clinic, you are failing to make the transition to "step 2."
This is the moment when the bike gets up on the back wheel and as it is rising to the point of no return (the balance point at which at which you tip over and loop out) where you need to transition form heals dropped to toes pointing and lifting the rear/leaning forward and up and performing the "hop."

Slam your seat to practice if you need help bringing the bike up higher. Droppers and riding clipped in really allow you to cheat the height here.

Watch what is going on in the slow-mo vidoes and see what people are doing:





Film yourself with slow mo on the iphone to see what you are doing or not doing.

Pro Tip: Don't bunny hop a boulder "for fun" at speed 20 miles into a an 80 mile MTB race.


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## ghoti (Mar 23, 2011)

williek said:


> Well, his advice was crappy because I kept my legs bent and never used them to push the pedals. He saw nothing wrong with that. Was just telling me to lean back and look at the sky and the front would come up. That just resulted in looping out time and time again.
> 
> I know it's technique and I need t practice but after his bad advice and looping out I now hesitate. I'm thinking of picking up a bmx bike and seeing if it's easier to manual/wheelie and bunny hop. Then one I get it down I can try on my 29er.


So, are you preloading the suspension at all? Or are you just leaning backwards trying to get the front end up? Since you say you're keeping your legs bent then you're missing out on a lot of power generation that can help get he front end up? Are you keeping your legs bent and using them to pinch your frame?

A bmx bike with smaller tires will make it easier to loop out. But the smaller dimensions do make it easier to manipulate the bike and your weight distribution over it. Try a simple manual heading downhill and you'll see it's pretty easy to get your weight over the rear axle.

So picking up a bmx bike can help you. It's easier to manipulate your weight over it. This gives you less margin for error though and you might find the crashes to hurt more. But if you use small movements you should be okay. This will help to train your muscles to the right sequence of movements. But it may not help once you transfer over to the 29er as you have to exaggerate your movements more. Generally though I find if most people learn on a smaller bike it does help translate over.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Re-watched the link I posted above and screwed around in my yard for awhile and tried to incorporate some of the information. LZ (and the OP's instructor) are spot on with the straight arm deal and I think for the first time ever I actually pulled off some legit manuals. Super fun and I was pretty dang proud of myself. Some notes-

Seat at proper riding height sucks, lower it.
Clipless pedals, don't do it.
Expect to loop out

You have to hang really far back behind the wheel to make it happen which is not a natural move, your brain instinctively knows that's a vulnerable position and wisely prevents your body from doing it, which is tough to override and in my opinion the #1 reason most people have trouble with manuals, wheelies, and bunnyhops.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Some people lack the bunnyhop gene.


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## hdparrish (Jan 24, 2008)

tiretracks said:


> Some people lack the bunnyhop gene.


Haha, how's this for a hare-brained idea?--I'll task Monsanto with splicing some jackrabbit DNA into mine.


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## williek (Feb 8, 2017)

DC2.2GSR said:


> You mentioned being able to lift the front, and also the back independently. Well, use that to your advantage. Ride slowly toward the 2x4 or even a small curb. Lift the front a bit in a tiny manual as you approach, just enough to get the front wheel over the 2x4 or onto the curb. It's now rolling on the other side or on the sidewalk. You'll then need to shift your weight forward onto the front wheel, push the bars straight in front of you, and hop your feet a little to get the back wheel up.


Actually that's what I had been doing. At a walking speed I can clear easily. But I can't seem to get both wheels off the ground at the same time. I practiced at too low a speed and now can't seem to link the movements. At a jogging speed or faster I can't get the rear up in time. It's easier to get the front up and have it touch the ground then push on the bars so it brings the rear up.



matt.s67 said:


> I've been told over and over to do the same thing - lean back into a manual and fire your hips forward, then shove the bike in front of you. But I can't go from a manual to firing my hips forward.
> 
> I recently learned a few new "cues" from Lee McCormack's site - he recommends that you preload the bike and shift back enough just to create tension, not shifting all your weight back behind the seat. Once you've preloaded and shifted back a bit, fire the hips forward while standing tall and rowing the handlebars to your waist. Then, shove the bars forward/up while crouching to land.
> 
> I still haven't gotten it down either after practicing this for months. But, I feel like Lee's cues work a lot better. I can get both wheels in the air no problem just by going from the attack position to firing my hips towards the bars and shoving.


Shift back so your arms are locked out? Then fire hips? I think I'm trying to throw my hips to far back and push through the pedals. Then I can't manage to fire my hips forward. This is why I can't link the two together.



ghoti said:


> So, are you preloading the suspension at all? Or are you just leaning backwards trying to get the front end up? Since you say you're keeping your legs bent then you're missing out on a lot of power generation that can help get he front end up? Are you keeping your legs bent and using them to pinch your frame?


No, I was told to just lock out my suspension. He said there's no need to preload as it's all a weight shifting movement. His advice is in opposition to all the online vids. He tells me to keep the seat high and just lower it an inch or two. Stay seated and just pull back on the bars. He wants me to learn to wheelie. Wheelie towards the object then once the front wheel is past it you push down on the bars and the rear wheel will rise. Yes, my legs are bent and there's no firing of my hips. Yes I do pinch the bike with my legs. He said that's fine as you don't use your legs much. That seems to fly in the face of what others say.

So now I don't know how much of my legs to use. When getting the rear up I was told to point the toes down and kick the legs up like a horse in a kinda J motion. Seems like that's wrong and I should just point the toes down and explode my hips toward the bar like in the GMBN vid.


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## ghoti (Mar 23, 2011)

Sounds like you're doing it completely wrong. You shouldn't be kicking your legs up trying to scoop the rear end over objects. Don't push so much through your pedals. The GMBN vid shows the proper way to get the rear up. You should practice that until you get it right. 

As for getting the front end up I guess you could wheelie and then fire your hips forward. I think it might be difficult to try and fire your hips forward if you're on your saddle and pedaling the bike though. Using a manual to get the front up is easier IMO. You'll also have better and equal tension in your legs making it easier to fire your hips forward.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

williek said:


> ...At a walking speed I can clear easily. But I can't seem to get both wheels off the ground at the same time....


Yeah. I know the feeling. At low speed it's two distinct movements, front up then rear up. At high speed there's not enough time to break it into two things. It's more like one motion; down and back in preparation and then jumping up just in front of the obstacle.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Start small by bunny hopping a stick in the yard, then work your way up to a package of strawberries...


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

williek said:


> He wants me to learn to wheelie. .


Oddly enough, wheelie and manual techniques aren't as similar as one would think. Seat up for a wheelie is much more do-able than seat up for a manual.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

ghoti said:


> Sounds like you're doing it completely wrong. You shouldn't be kicking your legs up trying to scoop the rear end over objects. Don't push so much through your pedals. The GMBN vid shows the proper way to get the rear up. You should practice that until you get it right.
> 
> As for getting the front end up I guess you could wheelie and then fire your hips forward. I think it might be difficult to try and fire your hips forward if you're on your saddle and pedaling the bike though. Using a manual to get the front up is easier IMO. You'll also have better and equal tension in your legs making it easier to fire your hips forward.


The scoop and kick movement IS a thing...but it's a different thing. It's just a basic rear wheel lift. All the coaching certs I know of consider manuals to be pretty advanced level skills to coach, so don't really want lower level coaches trying to teach them. Bunny hops even moreso, because riders have to build on the manual. If the coach was trying to get OP to do basic rear wheel lifts as part of the technique, then there's something wrong there. I have to wonder what certs the coach had. The coach should not be shy about sharing them.

FWIW, I find it easier to clear larger stuff if I let my front wheel "kiss" the top of whatever it is I'm trying to hop over right as I'm initiating the forward thrust. The lighter the touch, the smoother everything goes.


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## White7 (Feb 9, 2015)

just like posted above,,watch a couple videos to get the basic technique then practice it 900 times


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> Re-watched the link I posted above and screwed around in my yard for awhile and tried to incorporate some of the information. LZ (and the OP's instructor) are spot on with the straight arm deal and I think for the first time ever I actually pulled off some legit manuals. Super fun and I was pretty dang proud of myself. Some notes-
> 
> Seat at proper riding height sucks, lower it.
> Clipless pedals, don't do it.
> ...


All this. Heavy emphasis on lowering the saddle. Plus do it on a soft flat grassy area. Fear of looping out is greatly reduced if you can have a soft landing.


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## Nawelter (Mar 9, 2017)

I'm trying to figure out how to bunny hop better as well. Won't better suspension with rebound help? What's the easiest bike to bunny hop (wheel, suspension, etc.)? Are, say, 29ers harder to bunnyhop than a 26"?


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## Bigjunk1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Although bike and rider weight combined is what counts for riding, bike weight alone is important when it comes to lifting the bike up from underneath you in a bunny hop. If you have a heavy 29er bike hopping will be tough no matter the person.
A 29er will not hop as high as a BMX bike because it's bigger and shaped different even if they weigh the same.
Practicing on a BMX is a good idea until you get the general idea. 20+ years ago I raced BMX and could bunny hop crazy high, chain link fence, picnic table high. I now have a 23 pound 29er that is much lighter than my old BMX bike but would be lucky to bunny hop one foot in the air with it. 29ers are just not easy to bunny hop on because of the size and shape.


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## ghoti (Mar 23, 2011)

Nawelter said:


> I'm trying to figure out how to bunny hop better as well. Won't better suspension with rebound help? What's the easiest bike to bunny hop (wheel, suspension, etc.)? Are, say, 29ers harder to bunnyhop than a 26"?


I find smaller wheel bikes and small bikes in general much easier to bunny hop. Suspension needs to be preloaded or else it'll absorb your energy reducing height and whatnot. A full rigid or locking out your suspension can help. Makes for rougher landings though. It's all a compromise. Smaller wheels can be easier to get up but you have less margin for error and can quickly wind up on your butt. Same with frame size and geo.

These long slack frames can already have you stretched out a bit and thus makes it harder to throw your weight back over the rear. I did find my mtb bike significantly harder to manual and perform other tricks than my bmx bike. But since I knew the mechanics I've eventually adapted. As mentioned earlier the hardest part can be linking the front and rear hops together. On a bmx with it's short frame you have much less distance to move and it makes it easier to perform.

Heck, if you have a short stem of 50mm or less it might be worth mounting it backwards. Probably be much easier to manual and you'll have less distance to cover. Cheap way to shorten the bike up and get your weight rearward. Doesn't overcome the wheel size but maybe it's a happy compromise?


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## Bigjunk1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Bigjunk1 said:


> Although bike and rider weight combined is what counts for riding, bike weight alone is important when it comes to lifting the bike up from underneath you in a bunny hop. If you have a heavy 29er bike hopping will be tough no matter the person.
> A 29er will not hop as high as a BMX bike because it's bigger and shaped different even if they weigh the same.
> Practicing on a BMX is a good idea until you get the general idea. 20+ years ago I raced BMX and could bunny hop crazy high, chain link fence, picnic table high. I now have a 23 pound 29er that is much lighter than my old BMX bike but would be lucky to bunny hop one foot in the air with it. 29ers are just not easy to bunny hop on because of the size and shape.


Some added advice= On a BMX bike I tend to slightly raise the front end first but basically I jump in the air off the pedals while staying on the pedals and then pull the bike up to me ( if that makes since). On a 29er MTB I tend to raise the front end and jump like a BMX but it is more of a lifting the back to match the front rather than the whole bike together. Again, it aint gonna be several foot in the air like a BMX or like you seen in a movie.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornfield said:


> Start small by bunny hopping a stick in the yard, then work your way up to a package of strawberries...


Whoa - not so fast man. Blueberries should be the next step after the stick.

Your reckless advice will wind up killing someone.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

phlegm said:


> Whoa - not so fast man. Blueberries should be the next step after the stick.
> 
> Your reckless advice will wind up killing someone.


Yeah, I forgot about the blueberries. That's an important step in working your way up to jumping over kids on the trail.

I'm trying to remember the title of the one that involved running over a homeless guy's strawberries.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

williek said:


> Shift back so your arms are locked out? Then fire hips? I think I'm trying to throw my hips to far back and push through the pedals. Then I can't manage to fire my hips forward. This is why I can't link the two together.


I don't think you really need to consciously shift back to lock your arms. You will naturally go back a bit, but focus more on getting your chest low initially, exploding upwards with your legs, and pulling the bars back towards your hips when initiating the hop. You'll then push the bars forward in the air and soak up with your legs. The whole manual, rear wheel lift thing never worked for me.

Try filming yourself practicing. Sometimes you'll feel like your doing everything right, while looking like a complete goof in real life. If you're really brave, you'll post your video here for us to pick apart.


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## avidthrasher (Jan 27, 2016)

Dude, you gave up after looping out 5 times and came to the internet looking for a quick fix? As others have said the only "fix" is to go and practice it until you get it. It's clear from your posts that you know the fundamental motions/physics/technique need to accomplish the feat, so what is talking about it more doing for you? Less time on MTBR forums talking about bunny hopping and more time practicing bunny hopping is a sure fire way to get better at bunny hopping.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

I practice on soft grass. Worked up to an empty case of beer box. Practice. Watch some pro vids. Then at speed, when you are at at the back of the group redlining, go for those 6" logs. Impact learning curve there.


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