# Can we do better than a GT Karakoram Elite for $600...



## mcbiko (May 22, 2015)

My nephew is long overdue for an upgrade from his Trek 8000 and we're about to pull the trigger on a GT Karakoram Elite from Performance for $600... link below

The specs look pretty solid with a Deore Drivetrain and hydro brakes. The downside appears to be a Suntour fork, but at least the stanchions are 32mm. My nephew also only weighs about 110lbs, so hopefully he can ride without upgrading the fork right away.

Any of you purchase this model? What are your thoughts? Also, can anyone suggest a better option for $600 or less. I have scoured Craigslist for the last 2 weeks and didn't find anything used that was worthwhile and in our price range . The bike also comes with lifetime adjustments for what its worth - although, we have previously paid performance to true wheels and adjust the rear derailleur.

My only hesitation is that the bike is a 29er and my nephew is only 5ft 5" - he has ridden my 29er and appears to have no issues.

GT Karakoram Elite Mountain Bike - 2016


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

The 8000 was a fairly high-end Trek.

What's wrong with it?

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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Someone here just got one. Google the bike and add mtbr to the search it should come up. The fit of the bike would probably be more important than wheel size

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## mcbiko (May 22, 2015)

Fork was blown on the 8000, no disc brakes, and other parts were pretty worn out too....just time for an upgrade.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I feel like I'd rather have an 8000 with a Recon Gold and BB7 front brake.

I actually have a '07 Hardrock that I keep at work. It's a bit of a mishmash of parts I scrounged if they replace something that failed when I'd gone back to school and a few more recent parts from my current period of not struggling so much but also having it as a 'B' bike.

Something I like about the maintaining and upgrading older bikes approach is that if I'm just replacing one thing, I can often do it like I mean it and get something really nice, that doesn't come stock on a bike until it costs thousands of dollars.

If I'm presented with a "worn out" bike, I start by looking at the true wear parts, like cables, cassettes, chain rings, tires, that kind of thing. On a low-end bike, sometimes I will just throw my hands up and say it's not worth it. But a lot of the time, it doesn't take all that much to get a bike that's been allowed to wear a bit back into kickass function. A lot of that stuff isn't even very expensive, especially on a bike that's a little older, with a 9-speed or fewer drivetrain.

If you've already spent some real time looking at that and it's going to cost hundreds of dollars to catch up, sorry for inflicting my opinion on you. Otherwise - really give it a look. You might have an opportunity here.

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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

I've heard the new model year Giants came out recently or are about to. Might not hurt to stop by a dealer and see what they have. Something like a Talon would be similar to what you're looking at and you could test ride it as well as see what else they might have.


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## MASC1104 (Feb 2, 2015)

Depending on where, what and how he rides the "old bike" may still be more than enough. His v-brakes may be enough. I have a FS bike with disc brakes, yadda yadda yadda... But my hardtail still has v-brakes and is a blast to ride.


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

At that price range all brands at least have bad forks and brakes (mech or hydro).

Have you looked into the Giant Talon line?

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## mcbiko (May 22, 2015)

Yeah, checked out the Talon and the pricing for a similarly equipped Talon is significantly more. 

Repairing/upgrading the Trek 8000 is also not an option - we have given it away, but wouldn't have plowed any more $$ into it anyway - it was almost 20 years old and although a quality bike, it was past its time. 

I'm holding off purchasing the Karakoram for a few more days and giving Craigslist one more shot. I actually went into Performance today and they only had a 2015 Karakoram Elite in stock and it was more expensive than the 2016 one available online.

The 2015 had a Rockshox XC28 - how does this compare to the Suntour XCR on the 2016. I thought I read that the Rockshox XC28 was pretty much a Dart 2? The other notable differences are:

Avid brakes on the '15 verse Shimano on the '16 (both hydro)
XT rear Derailleur on the '15 verse Deore on the '16
Acera front Derailleur on the '15 verse Deore on the '16
I think Alivio shifters on the '15 verse Deore on the '16.
Diff Tires too

They may pricematch the '15 to the '16 online price, but which is the better bike? Seems like a wash to me.


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

From your parts description I would go with the '16, Deore everywhere in the drivetrain.

I'm not sure but the XCR and the XC28 are about the same.

Have you test ridden either? Fit is the most important part.


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## Wolf_ (Jul 6, 2016)

Dont't forget the SR Suntour North America program if you go with the GT


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

I had a '14 Karakoram and it was a solid beginner's bike. The fork does suck but unless your nephew is trying to ride nothing but rock gardens or drops/jumps then he'll be fine. The bike itself is built like a tank with for me as a big guy was great but for lighter riders it's probably too hefty. Mine came with tektro hydro brakes and they sucked, so I changed them to BB7s and it was a major improvement. The drivetrain will need constant tweaking though but other than that it's a solid bike. Check some of the offerings from Cannondale too.


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## mcbiko (May 22, 2015)

Thanks for all the advice... I ended up finding a deal on a 2007 Trek 6000. The Geometry is more modern than the older Trek 8000 (top tube almost parallel to ground) and importantly the bike has disc brakes (Avid BB5). All components are Deore and in good working order. The small size 29er Karakoram just seemed a tad too big for my nephew, while this bike has a 15.5" frame which is ideal for him (5ft 5" at most).

The Bad: Rockshox Dart 1 fork. Also the chainring/cranks seems to be slightly out of true - I can see the chain/front derailleur gap vary slightly as the crank rotate - but the bike still rides great. Regardless, I intend converting the bike to a 1 x 9 setup and I have spare cranks if needed. I'm going to post a separate thread asking for advice about potential upgrades, so please post your suggestions if you notice the new thread.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

The Dart 1 is still better than the non-RS forks it competes with IMO.

I still ride a '07 Hardrock regularly. It doesn't have much of the original build left but I don't think XC geometry has made any fundamental advances.

I'd be inclined to go 2x9 or leave the crank alone. But there's a lot of vert in my region.

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## Runfox (Nov 4, 2008)

This was a good read for me, Im looking at buying a bike here this week, and my price limit is $600.00 I too am looking at Performance Cycle in winter park, fla at the GT Karakoram Elite 29er. Looks like a good starting bike for me. My thought is , if my old deparment store, cheepo bike I been beating around for the past 10 years has not broken anything other than a rear derailuer, anything I buy from a bike shop as basic and entry level as it may be, will certainly be far better. Lousy forks and all.I think it will last and wear well for me , and if anything does break down, its always an opportunity to upgrade the part .


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## mcbiko (May 22, 2015)

Runfox, In my opinion the Karakoram Elite is the best local purchase at $600. Nothing from the big name bike brands comes close. If my nephew was any taller, I would have pulled the trigger on the Karakoram and saved me the hassle of scouring Craigslist 24/7. It's really not that easy to find a bike on Craigslist in a limited period..I just got super lucky right at the 11th hour.

Pity that Performance had a double points offer this weekend which just expired ($30 for the membership and 20% in rewards for future purchases). I think they still have their standard 10% which you may want to consider ($30 to get $60 in rewards). I signed up for their email and now get about 2 emails a day offering some discount - none of which offered any further discount that could be applied direct to the bike and I think all the discounts were already reflected on their website (so I will be cancelling the emails asap).

Be aware that today may be the last day for the $600 price...I was told in store that new deals start Tuesday - although, this may be different for their online deals and the bike is listed under their "summer bike blowout" which kinda implies that the price will be valid for the summer. Nevertheless, you may want to call Performance to check.

If you don't value the free lifetime adjustments, then check out the Airborne Guardian ($599) and the Diamondback Comp (Nashbar - about $650 if you catch them on a 25% off promo - ON RIGHT NOW). The Guardian comes with a Rockshox XC28 shock and the Diamondback with Rockshox XC 30. However, I get the sense that the Suntour XCR model (no plastic bushings) on the Karakoram is comparable. The DB has slightly better brakes. 

Your 3rd option is to hit Craigslist, Pinkbike, etc.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> The Dart 1 is still better than the non-RS forks it competes with IMO.


Dart1 is comparable to the base level suntour XCT. 28mm stanchion, no damping. Just a spring on one side and a hollow tube on the other. If the option  was a dart1 vs. suntour XCM or better versions of the XCT, I'd go with suntour.

The dart2 includes a damping circuit, and it actually works OK with the right spring. The dart3 is basically the dart 2 with a magnesium alloy lower for about 1/2 lb less weight. The darts were replaced with the rockshox XC28. A base version without damping and the TK version with hydraulic lockout.

IMO, the fork hierarchy

Lowest level to better of the low end forks:
Suntour XCT (pogo stick of doom)
Dart1 / rockshox XC28 (no damping, pogo stick of almost doom)
Rigid steel fork
Suntour XCT with mechanical lockout
Suntour XCT with hydraulic lockout
Dart2
Dart3 / rockshox xc28 TK 
Suntour XCM
Suntour XCR
Rockshox XC30 TK
Rockshox XC32 TK

Lowest level air cartridge fork if you're serious about riding.
Rockshox Recon Silver
Suntour Raidon
Rockshox Recon Gold


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

I had the XCM with the mechanical lock-out and it was nothing more than a spring with the ability to add some preload but that was it--no damping at all from what I can tell. the Suntour XC line of forks aren't meant to be ridden on anything other than bike paths, there is a sticker on the fork that says so.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Also depends on age/model of suntour fork. The XCM had some decent ones with springs on both sides with elastomer dampers. I've actually seen air cartridge XCM fork before. Most are the low end single spring ones mentioned above though. Not much better than the XCT fork, but it does have 30mm stanchions.


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## Runfox (Nov 4, 2008)

Yeah I been looking at craigslist Orlando, and the choices are so random but nothing I like. And I definitely want to go to LBS for sizing help, I want to try several bikes and make sure I'm totally happy with the bike I bring home. Right now my cheep department store bikes are small frame pains to ride. I want to make sure this next bike fits me exactly. And I definitely want disc brakes 29 tires.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

How tall are you?

There's really no such thing as fitting exactly, though there's definitely better and worse. I'm exploring more AM-type riding this year and finding I want a pretty different fit.

Craig's List can sometimes take some time. You can set up a saved search so it emails you results once a day or so.

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## Runfox (Nov 4, 2008)

Well there may not be an exact fit, but I want some one who know more about bikes than me to help me make the best choice, and I want to sit on and look at several bikes to see and understand the difference in the bikes at different prices. See you all know the scale of components from low to high, I don't. All theses names and numbers of forks don't mean anything to me yet because I don't have the knowledge of what's good, better and best for each part of the bike. So I want to go to my LBS and see and understand what's good, what's the next best up form that and so on.


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## Runfox (Nov 4, 2008)

Went to winter park Performance cycle, loved the shop and people, great help with everything, love my new bike, GT Karakoram Elite, medium frame bike. Love the 29" wheels, the brakes and all. Got some clipless pedals with the regular pedal on the other side to ride with the wife , and some Pear Izumie shoes.


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## mcbiko (May 22, 2015)

Nice bike. Still considering this for a potential future purchase. I would lose the reflectors - get lights if you ride at night.


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## Runfox (Nov 4, 2008)

Rode my bike around the yard a couple of times to get used to the bike and the pedals and shoes. Love the bike, and the clip less pedals and shoes, but the saddle was rock hard, no surprise my bum was hurting already. Went back and got a gel type cushion seat and padded shorts. Now I'm ready to ride a trail, what a difference the seat and shorts make.
Really glad I bought the Team Performance club card for $30.00, I got like $70.00 of in store credits which took care of my seat, gloves nd padded shorts, with points to spare.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Cool but you could have given your saddle some time, it takes time for your butt to get use to the saddle. If you got one too cushy might not be as comfortable. Of course that's a very personal decision. The good news is you are on your way to ride some trails.


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

jcd46 said:


> Cool but you could have given your saddle some time, it takes time for your butt to get use to the saddle. If you got one too cushy might not be as comfortable. Of course that's a very personal decision. The good news is you are on your way to ride some trails.


What he said, you need to break in the saddle and your butt, then if they don't play well together then make the change.


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## Runfox (Nov 4, 2008)

ok , well I rode it around my yard for about 30 minutes two times and my but was sore already. So is that the norm, you ride it till your buts sore and cant stand to sit on it? I cant imagine trying to ride an hour plus trail ride like that!!


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Have to earn the iron butt. Only takes a couple rides if you don't ride often. I ride with unpadded shorts, a hard seat, and multiple hours. I'm not going to say it doesn't hurt, but it doesn't hurt anywhere near as much as when I first started. Also need to make sure the seat angle is adjusted right, and you shouldn't try to adjust it until after you've ridden it for at least 30 minutes (or until your butt starts to hurt). Just one notch of seat angle does make a difference. Same with forward/backward slide on the rails. Affects knee pain if your mash and foreward/rearward position on the seat.

And chamois cream. Nobody talks about it, everybody uses it. First rule of chamois cream is don't talk about chamois cream.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Runfox said:


> ok , well I rode it around my yard for about 30 minutes two times and my but was sore already. So is that the norm, you ride it till your buts sore and cant stand to sit on it? I cant imagine trying to ride an hour plus trail ride like that!!


It takes some time, I was close to changing my saddle on my bike, problem I didnt have on my other bikes. After about 80 miles of using it, I realized it wasn't hurting anymore. Even your butt needs muscle memory


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

watts888 said:


> First rule of chamois cream is don't talk about chamois cream.


LOL!! So true though.


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## Runfox (Nov 4, 2008)

Well I have a sort of gel, softer seat, with the padded shorts, and I like it, I have been out out on my local trail now twice, first time about 2 hrs, and second trip about 1.5 hr. My trail has lots of stumps, bumps and such soI like my padded seat, it lets me enjoy the ride and not be distrtacted by a sore behind. So I guess no iron but for me, but then I dont get to ride that often , maybe once a week or every other week, so I dont see me getting used to a hard seat .


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## airforceteacher (May 31, 2012)

Great thread - I was already looking at this bike on Performance so I bit last night. I just moved and my old 2011 Karakoram is at my old place. Since it was too big for me (XL) I decided to give it to my 6'5" son and bought a large Elite last night. With mil discount I got it for $540. Same thing I paid for the 2.0 I got 4 years ago, but hydraulic and Deore instead of Alivio components. Still thinking about the Suntour upgrade. Any idea on resellability of an XCR?


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## avidthrasher (Jan 27, 2016)

Runfox said:


> ok , well I rode it around my yard for about 30 minutes two times and my but was sore already. So is that the norm, you ride it till your buts sore and cant stand to sit on it? I cant imagine trying to ride an hour plus trail ride like that!!


Honestly... Yes, this is the norm. MTB isn't so much a comfort thing as much as a compromise between what isn't so uncomfortable that it takes the joy out of riding. Regardless of how good a seat you have if you spend 4+ hours (a long ride session) balancing your weight on your sit bones you're going to feel it at least a little bit. This is where other things like getting out of the saddle, re-positioning in the saddle, etc all come into play to alleviate build up of more discomfort. You are putting your muscles through heavy repetitive motion, moving around a bit to alleviate the tension/stress on those muscles between heavy bursts of action or long duration of those actions are key factors in your overall comfort. Basically casually pedaling around your lawn isn't going to give you a good idea of how well a saddle is going to serve you over the long haul. But everyone's tolerance for comfort/discomfort is different and if the old saddle was just unbearable and this new one is notably better for you comfort wise then you probably didn't make a bad choice.

The above is not to say you should expect to be uncomfortable while riding your bike, but rather where your expectations of comfort should be. Having a little bum soreness after a long ride isn't uncommon even for those with a good bike fit and a seat that fits their physiology well and that are in good enough shape to have "iron buns". You are participating in rather vigorous physical activity after all. Some signs of your body being put to heavy use are normal.

*edited cuz I had picked "reply with quote" on the wrong post, lol! I know my rambling usually makes little sense to begin with and replying to incorrectly quoted text can't possibly help!


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

airforceteacher said:


> Still thinking about the Suntour upgrade. Any idea on resellability of an XCR?


It can be sold, but will be a challenge. I tried to sell a brand new takeoff rockshox XC28 TK fork, and it finally sold after about 6 months for $40. I'd ride the XCR for now, and once it starts giving you issues, then I'd do the suntour upgrade. Should be able to sell a used XCR for $20 or trade for bike parts you want.


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## SILVAREZI (Jul 17, 2017)

*First mountain bike, great price. Any upgrade suggestions?*









Hi.... I bought yesterday a 2016 GT Karakoram Elite hardtail for $401.50 plus tax at Performance Bicycle in San Diego!

The people there were able to match the Nashbar price of $550 minus 27%, AND didn't charge the extra $20 shipping.

I'm new to mountain biking and looking to go out this weekend.

My question is what would you upgrade in this bike? I'm thinking of replacing the seat post with a Cane Creek Thudbuster LT 30.9 (currently on sale at Nashbar $109.49) to make it easier on my back (I'm 5'7" / 215 lbs / 50 yrs)

Any recommendations (security/lights/etc.)? Bike specs below:

*GT Karakoram Elite Mountain Bike*

FRAME 29" Hydroformed & Butted Speed Metal Aluminum frame with Triple Triangle design, Replaceable derailleur hanger, Disc brake mounts, Zerostack 1-1/8" head tube
FORK SR Suntour XCR 32 RL DS with 100mm travel, 29", Magnesium lowers, 32mm chromoly steel uppers, Post mount disc brake, Remote lockout, Rebound adjust

REAR SHOCK None

HEADSET FSA NO.10 1-1/8" threadless, Zerostack

CRANKSET FSA CK-725STT, 42/32/24T chainrings

BOTTOM BRACKET Tange, sealed

SHIFTERS Shimano Deore SL-M610, 3x10-speed

LEVERS Shimano hydraulic disc

HANDLEBAR All Terra Riser, Butted, 710mm width, 15mm rise, 31.8mm diameter

STEM All Terra 1-1/8" threadless, 3D Forged, 4-bolt with CNC face plate, +/- 6-degree rise, 31.8mm clamp

FRONT DERAILLEUR Shimano Deore FD-M610

REAR DERAILLEUR Shimano Deore Shadow, RD-M610-SGS

CASSETTE Sunrace CS-MS1 10-speed, 11-36T

BRAKES Shimano BR-M355 hydraulic disc brakes with 160mm rotors front/rear

WHEELSET Rims: All Terra DC20, double wall, disc, 32H; Hubs: All Terra alloy disc, Quick release, Center lock; Spokes: 14G stainless steel

TIRES Schwalbe Rapid Rob 29x2.25" with K-Guard

PEDALS GT Slim Line flat pedal, Cast alloy

SEATPOST All Terra Alloy micro-adjust, 30.9mm

SADDLE WTB Silverado Sport

CHAIN KMC X10

GRIPS/TAPE GT Statement


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

watts888 said:


> And chamois cream. Nobody talks about it, everybody uses it. First rule of chamois cream is don't talk about chamois cream.


Really? I've never used it. I thought it was more of a road bikers going really long distance thing. And I did 45 miles on my road bike Sunday, on one of those plastic mesh seats, not even the real thing but a $8 Chinese eBay one*. And my butt wasn't sore at the end.

I do remember my first mountain bike I bought in 1994, my butt was soar for days after a very short test ride and the shop (I think it was Performance) swapped it out. But now I like narrow minimal saddles.

*I don't usually recommend using cheap Chinese parts off of eBay. Though this saddle would probably be ok, I still wouldn't trust it on a mountain bike. I'm also only around 140 lbs.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

SILVAREZI said:


> View attachment 1147191
> 
> 
> I'm new to mountain biking and looking to go out this weekend.
> ...


I would ride it awhile before worrying about upgrades. Lights/security will depend on if you are riding at night and if you are leaving it somewhere it could get stolen. Some people like Thudbusters but I wouldn't buy one. I'm about 5'9" / 140 / 53 but I've been riding for awhile.

I am assuming you bought a helmet and some type of hydration system (bottles and cages or Camelbak type), and have some proper riding clothes, at least padded shorts. Also gloves and glasses, don't have to be anything fancy. And a spare tube, patch kit, tire levers, multi tool. And something to carry this stuff in if you didn't get a backpack type hydration system.

Edit: ha, I keep thinking of more stuff! Also need a pump or CO2 system.


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## SILVAREZI (Jul 17, 2017)

Thanks....

I have none of the above.... gotta go shopping....


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

SILVAREZI said:


> Thanks....
> 
> I have none of the above.... gotta go shopping....


Jensonusa/nashbar/performance a few on line places to compare with amazon.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> Jensonusa/nashbar/performance a few on line places to compare with amazon.


Edit: don't cheap out on helmet or shorts. 😁


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

And really you kinda need two pumps, a floor pump at home with a gauge and a mini pump you can carry with you (or CO2 kit, I have both). When I first started, I just had a mini pump and I got a lot of pinch flats as it is difficult to get enough pressure with one of those plus with no gauge, you don't know how much pressure you have.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

chazpat said:


> And really you kinda need two pumps, a floor pump at home with a gauge and a mini pump you can carry with you (or CO2 kit, I have both). When I first started, I just had a mini pump and I got a lot of pinch flats as it is difficult to get enough pressure with one of those plus with no gauge, you don't know how much pressure you have.


I think floor pumps get overlooked, but it is a must have IMO.


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## rabitoblanco (Feb 21, 2017)

SILVAREZI said:


> View attachment 1147191
> 
> 
> Hi.... I bought yesterday a 2016 GT Karakoram Elite hardtail for $401.50 plus tax at Performance Bicycle in San Diego!
> ...


Definitely your first upgrade should be to the rider, lol. Seriously, though--don't spend a quarter of your bicycle's price on a seatpost just yet. Just start riding.

Actually--first safety-- a pair of mtb-specific gloves are about $30, a decent helmet is anywhere 40$+ (I like the idea of "downhill helmets" which are a bit more protective), and as mentioned above, it might make good sense for your bones to be protected by a proper padded hip-shorts. I LOVE Camelbaks ("hydration packs") because then I can carry anything else in the backpack (wallet, keys, phone, snacks, pump etc.etc.)

But ride first, upgrade later.


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## SILVAREZI (Jul 17, 2017)

Thanks JCD46... I'll start looking


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## SILVAREZI (Jul 17, 2017)

Thanks Rabito.... the Camelback is a good idea as well as the padded shorts...


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Regarding the pump, I want a gauge on my mini pump. A lot of guys check pressure by feel, but I like to see a number. Most pumps are not giving you an accurate reading, but as long as it is consistent, you will learn what indicated pressure works best. A pump that has everything I am looking for doesn't exist, but the Crank Brothers Sterling was the absolute best I could find. There is a long and short version (the long version pumps more air per stroke of course).


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