# Saint M820 vs. Formula RO



## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

Anyone ridden both and have some input? 
Been on Avid for the past 5 years, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen. Codes, and Elixr CRs. My current Codes faded a few times resort riding on heavy braking trails. Other than that I've been decently happy with them. 
Felt the new XTR's though and holy hell do they feel nice. Also have a set of Formula RX's on my trail bike and they are the best feeling brake I've owned. I tend to like a very solid lever feel that I can dial close to the bar at full power, with the RX's do to a T. 
So anyone have any opinions on M820s vs. Formula ROs?


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## TheRage43 (Jul 19, 2012)

I dont have any info on the saints but they are highly regarded as the best DH brake available. 

I am using formula "the one" brakes now and I don't have anything negative to say about them. I hear they are a pain to work on but haven't had any issues so far. They are SUPER strong and do not fade at all. I have the adjustment knobs on them so I can change how progressive they feel as well as the reach with no tools.

Very very satisfied with my formula's but when I was shopping I was very close to buying saints in their place. Deciding factor was weight, the formula's are quite a bit lighter than saints and claim to be the the lightest "DH specific" brake available.

Hope this helps


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

TheRage43 said:


> I dont have any info on the saints but they are highly regarded as the best DH brake available.
> 
> I am using formula "the one" brakes now and I don't have anything negative to say about them. I hear they are a pain to work on but haven't had any issues so far. They are SUPER strong and do not fade at all. I have the adjustment knobs on them so I can change how progressive they feel as well as the reach with no tools.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight. The weight factor isn't too important to me to be honest. I'm more concerned with stopping power, lever feel, and fade resistance; modulation is second to all those factors... I'm fine with an on/off brake or a very modular brake, as long as the lever feels solid and I can get it reasonably close to bars at full pull, but a solid stop before hitting bar.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

come on Fred...smell the coffee.....I rode the brakes more then you without any problems....Saints just work


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> come on Fred...smell the coffee.....I rode the brakes more then you without any problems....Saints just work


I'm actually a heavy braker, tend to drag the rear more than I should... and at 240 pounds that's a lot wear on my brakes. You saw me pour water on my rear caliper and have it boil off and spit steam. 
Anyways, the Saints are obviously on my want list, as are the ROs; which is why this thread exists.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

DHgnaR said:


> I'm actually a heavy braker, tend to drag the rear more than I should... and at 240 pounds that's a lot wear on my brakes. You saw me pour water on my rear caliper and have it boil off and spit steam.
> Anyways, the Saints are obviously on my want list, as are the ROs; which is why this thread exists.


call me tomorrow..I have a hook up on the Bran new Saints for you


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

RO and be done with it, I do the same thing Cool off my brakes I now do motul 660 fluid in my formulas.
I will be grabbing ROs next week and putting motul in them, I have never had a issue with formulas in 6 years they have never let me down from biancos to the ones.....
Saints are apparently great brakes I've got the 2012 xts on my pivot but its because they came on a bike I stripped down...they work great no issues so far feel great so I'm sure the saints are way better.

Formula IMO...


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

bullcrew said:


> RO and be done with it, I do the same thing Cool off my brakes I now do motul 660 fluid in my formulas.
> I will be grabbing ROs next week and putting motul in them, I have never had a issue with formulas in 6 years they have never let me down from biancos to the ones.....
> Saints are apparently great brakes I've got the 2012 xts on my pivot but its because they came on a bike I stripped down...they work great no issues so far feel great so I'm sure the saints are way better.
> 
> Formula IMO...


You gotta let me check out the ROs when you get em. I've felt a few sets of 820s but yet to get my fingers on some Formulas.


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## frorider (Apr 2, 2005)

just put my old Ones on my AM bike, and installed new R0s on my DHR. massive power, nice feel, and a reasonable $195 per wheel (I already had rotors) from a european online retailer (cheap shipping to US). Haven't ridden the newest Saints. I have 8 sets of Formula brakes....they just work so well, it's hard to consider switching.

How We Test Hydraulic Disc Brakes - BikeRadar

Note the Saints tested in that table weren't working right. The prev gen Saints had power similar to Ones, just heavier fwiw.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

lay off the brakes pansy....


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

my brother uses formulas, he has megas on his trail bike and the one on his park bike, he rates them both very highly, the ones are very powerful, with great bite nice and progressive and good modulation, 
for the last 3 weeks i have been running a new pair of 820 saints, they are a great brake, imense stopping power, great bite and feel, modulation is great, the only bad thing is this inconsistancy in the bite point,
its weird, the bite point will change randomly, most of the time it will bite near the bar, ( how i have it set up) then it will bit right at the top of the lever pull. then in the middle of the pull, then back to normal, evey time you pull the lever you never know when or where it will bite,


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

delirian said:


> my brother uses formulas, he has megas on his trail bike and the one on his park bike, he rates them both very highly, the ones are very powerful, with great bite nice and progressive and good modulation,
> for the last 3 weeks i have been running a new pair of 820 saints, they are a great brake, imense stopping power, great bite and feel, modulation is great, the only bad thing is this inconsistancy in the bite point,
> its weird, the bite point will change randomly, most of the time it will bite near the bar, ( how i have it set up) then it will bit right at the top of the lever pull. then in the middle of the pull, then back to normal, evey time you pull the lever you never know when or where it will bite,


Sounds like you have air in the system. A good bleed should solve that issue.

Still questioning if a 2 piston brake can match what's being called (arguably) the most powerful 4 piston brake on the market right now.


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

nt sure if it isair in the system, there are reviews from most of the journo's on the product launch that all stated inconsistant bite point, other users have also comented on here about similar issues, 
they are still an amazing brake though,


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

delirian said:


> nt sure if it isair in the system, there are reviews from most of the journo's on the product launch that all stated inconsistant bite point, other users have also comented on here about similar issues,
> they are still an amazing brake though,


Huh. I knew that was a prob with the 810s, didn't realize it was passed on to the 820s.


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## NAYR751 (Apr 22, 2006)

I got RO's about two weeks ago and they have changed my perception of what good brakes are. That's coming off the Saint m810 brakes. The stock bleed was perfect on both my front and rear and I couldn't be happier with the brakes. The amount of power is amazing. If you want the wheels to lock they will lock, but if you want to just slow down without the wheel skidding that is not an issue. These brakes are much more powerful than my m810 Saints. I did two 3k vertical DH runs today and experienced zero fade.

They are light, sexy, and have amazing power. Can't see any reason not to go Formula.


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

NAYR751 said:


> I got RO's about two weeks ago and they have changed my perception of what good brakes are. That's coming off the Saint m810 brakes. The stock bleed was perfect on both my front and rear and I couldn't be happier with the brakes. The amount of power is amazing. If you want the wheels to lock they will lock, but if you want to just slow down without the wheel skidding that is not an issue. These brakes are much more powerful than my m810 Saints. I did two 3k vertical DH runs today and experienced zero fade.
> 
> They are light, sexy, and have amazing power. Can't see any reason not to go Formula.


Sold.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

I don't know about the late model formulas, but I have 2011 The Ones, and it's impossible to get the lever close to the bar. The geometry is just not right for this kind of setup. 

I love them, though.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

NAYR751 said:


> . I did two 3k vertical DH runs today and experienced zero fade.
> 
> They are light, sexy, and have amazing power. Can't see any reason not to go Formula.


I think you mean 2k, none of our runs get much beyond that. Also, our trails are flat as sh*T so I don't think they are that good of a test of brakes.

Also $$$$ is a good reason 

Also, latest gen codes are great. The feel/lever geometry is far better than the formulas and saints. Well, newest saints come pretty close. Sure they are a tad heavier and they seem to lack a touch of the power of the saints and formulas. But they are wayyyy cheaper, don't fade, and have really nice modulation. When I say they don't fade, I mean, they don't fade. Between riding extended steep trails, being 220 lbs, and not being especially fast, I think I push my brakes harder than just about anyone I know.

And the codes are reliable. I think I've gone through 4 sets of metallic pads now on one of my sets. Zero maintenance aside from just bleeding them when I change pads. Everyone else seems to have at least SOME problems with their brakes once in a while, I have had zero.

To summarize. All of the big 3 brakes are good, it just comes down to preference. Also, me speaking highly of ANYTHING made by SRAM is very rare.

P.S.

WHY THE F**K are you pouring water on a hot caliper? There are so many things that can do to damage the system. Also, any brake under mild use will reach temperatures above 100C and cause water to steam off of it. That's why you use DOT fluid/mineral oil and not water as the fluid in the system.


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## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

Love my RO's. Borrowed some XT's were ok, but still prefere the XO's.


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

Gemini2k05 said:


> WHY THE F**K are you pouring water on a hot caliper? There are so many things that can do to damage the system. Also, any brake under mild use will reach temperatures above 100C and cause water to steam off of it. That's why you use DOT fluid/mineral oil and not water as the fluid in the system.


I love the way the internet lets people talk to each other.... 
To answer your question of WHY THE F**K I poured water on my caliper was to get to the bottom of my run. I had ZERO rear brake because those Codes you swear never fade, faded. And all those things that can do to damage the system, didn't.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

DHgnaR said:


> I love the way the internet lets people talk to each other....
> To answer your question of WHY THE F**K I poured water on my caliper was to get to the bottom of my run. I had ZERO rear brake because those Codes you swear never fade, faded. And all those things that can do to damage the system, didn't.


 Trust me, I'm a piece of sh*t in real life, the internet has nothing to do with it. If I saw someone pouring cold water onto their red hot brakes I would run over and slap them in the face.

You should never rapidly cool ANY metal part like that. At best you will 100% for certain embrittle it, at worst you will crack it right away. What resort trail were you fading your brakes on? A CA resort? None of the normal CA resort trails are that steep IME.


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## NAYR751 (Apr 22, 2006)

My m810 Saint would fade on Tunnel. Our trails might not be that steep but Tunnel will give any bike/part a work out. The modulation and overall power on the Formula's is the best that I have ridden. The Formula's aren't really that much difference in price from the Saint M820 either so I think it's a fine comparison to make.

The Formula's do have a different lever feel by design, but that is something that you get used to after a ride or two. I adjusted my levers in(closer to the bar), and don't have any issues. These brakes aren't cheap, but they sure are awesome.

And **** SRAM. Period.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Keep in mind both Saints and Formulas have been improved with new models for 2012/13 so a lot of responses are based on dated designs. The new Formula brakes are supposed to be much more user friendly for pad clearance and setup compared to previous years (their only real complaint). I can't say but I can say all of my bikes runs Formulas for a reason - they feel the best to me (tho the latest XT brakes for trail use are right there too). Even if they have equal stopping power (which I'm guessing they do), the Formulas have come in significantly lighter than Saints so why go with Saints if they're similarly priced?

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

Gemini2k05 said:


> Trust me, I'm a piece of sh*t in real life, the internet has nothing to do with it. If I saw someone pouring cold water onto their red hot brakes I would run over and slap them in the face.


Haha, I'm sure you would.... 
Anyways, at least you admit you're a piece of ****, something to be proud of.

This happened on Toll Road, which we hit after Skids, non-stop. My brake had ZERO grab on the fire road. Had to get to the village before the last shuttle left so I had to cool it off ASAP. Nothing appears abnormal since and it's been through 5 lift days and a few local rides since. 
Anyways, ordering the ROs, if I don't like em I can always resell em and get the saints.


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## recitio (Dec 22, 2011)

34 days in Whistler Bike Park this season, zero fade on my M810 Saints. 

That's over 400,000 vertical feet. 

Haven't bled them once since I got here. I run with my levers almost touching my bars at full pull, so I'd notice fade or any other problem immediately. No problems ever, not once, nothing.


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## Uphill=sad (Dec 8, 2011)

DHgnaR said:


> Haha, I'm sure you would....
> Anyways, at least you admit you're a piece of ****, something to be proud of.
> 
> This happened on Toll Road, which we hit after Skids, non-stop. My brake had ZERO grab on the fire road. Had to get to the village before the last shuttle left so I had to cool it off ASAP. Nothing appears abnormal since and it's been through 5 lift days and a few local rides since.
> Anyways, ordering the ROs, if I don't like em I can always resell em and get the saints.


I have RO's and my experiences match what other people have said, sensational brake.

Once you get them and get some riding on them, post what you think about them back in here please.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

NAYR751 said:


> And **** SRAM. Period.


With any product other than the codes I agree with you.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

DHgnaR said:


> Haha, I'm sure you would....
> Anyways, at least you admit you're a piece of ****, something to be proud of.
> 
> This happened on Toll Road, which we hit after Skids, non-stop. My brake had ZERO grab on the fire road. Had to get to the village before the last shuttle left so I had to cool it off ASAP. Nothing appears abnormal since and it's been through 5 lift days and a few local rides since.
> Anyways, ordering the ROs, if I don't like em I can always resell em and get the saints.


Ah, yeah, gotta just pin it on toll road. Try to push into the soft pumice to slow you down at the beginning, then at that final sorta gentle right turn push in hard to slow you down, then just let go of the brakes and straight line the end. But yeah, if you ride your brakes on that part it'll definitely work them, especially since they are probably already glazed over at mammoth.

But yeah, just let them cool off naturally, you are liable to f-up a lot of the parts on there by trying to essentially quench them. Warped rotors, messed up pads, brittled/cracked caliper, etc.


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## frorider (Apr 2, 2005)

have a few days now on my R0s. great brakes. much cheaper (around $230 complete with rotor/adaptor) from european online retailers. shipping to US was pretty cheap.


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## Brownpow! (Oct 11, 2012)

Ive melted part of my glove on my rear rotor before, I just wish hope four piston calipers weren't so expensive!


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## rymeswithorange (Oct 11, 2012)

Havent ridden Formulas, but most every other brake known to man. Saints are a force to be reckoned with and I myself use no other!!


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## kdiff (Apr 25, 2010)

DHgnaR said:


> So anyone have any opinions on M820s vs. Formula ROs?


Hey DHgnaR, just wondering if you picked up either and how you were liking them so far? I was looking at going with the 820's until I stumbled across this post.


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

kdiff said:


> Hey DHgnaR, just wondering if you picked up either and how you were liking them so far? I was looking at going with the 820's until I stumbled across this post.


Got a used set of RO's a few days ago, still got to bleed them and put new pads in before I can ride them.


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

for anyone that might be intrested, chainreaction had an offer on formula brakes, upto 65% off,


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