# Cannondale 24" race 21 speed



## marti (Oct 18, 2005)

This looks like a great kids bike, atleast a good frame and air fork, are there any owners on mtbr yet?
http://www.cannondale.com/2013/bikes/kids/boys/race/24-m-race-l-gloss-black

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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

Good looking bike. Its been a while since Cannondale had a 24.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

Looks to be a nice bike. I'm looking for something similar. I might have to go check this out. For some reason, I think I blew it off thinking the fork was probably sprung too stiff like on the Spec Hotrocks.

I've been looking into the Scott Scale JR 24 (SCOTT Scale JR 24 Bike - SCOTT Sports)

It seems to be similar, but for me, it may come down to the quality of the fork.

I was trying to find specs on the RST fork on the 'Dale but no luck.


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## marti (Oct 18, 2005)

Reading the comments in a few other threads re the RST F1rst air (do a search) I think its supposed to be pretty good, the only other bike I belevie this fork comes on is the Scott Scale RC which is double the price of the Cannondale and not available in Australia. 
Decent forks are few and far between with kids bikes and it seems very difficult to buy aftermarket. My sons forks on his 20" hotrock offer basically no suspension, adds more than couple of kg's in weight and after 18 months the bushes in them are so worn out there is more travel front to back than up and down...


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

marti said:


> Reading the comments in a few other threads re the RST F1rst air (do a search) I think its supposed to be pretty good, the only other bike I belevie this fork comes on is the Scott Scale RC which is double the price of the Cannondale and not available in Australia.
> Decent forks are few and far between with kids bikes and it seems very difficult to buy aftermarket. My sons forks on his 20" hotrock offer basically no suspension, adds more than couple of kg's in weight and after 18 months the bushes in them are so worn out there is more travel front to back than up and down...


Home Page has or had 20 and 24 inch air forks for sale. Put one on my son's Marin.

At $550 it's right in between the Marin Disc and Specialized Disk 24 inch bikes.

If my son had liked the color I would have gone with one of the non disc specialized for $430 or $380 depending on if you 1x or 2x gearing and added the air shock and disc.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm gonna take a look at that Cannondale today at a LBS. I looked at a Giant XCT. Not too bad. The fork is actually softer than the one that comes on Hotrocks and Trek bikes.

TAlking with the shop guy, it looks like the Scott Scale JR comes with cassette hub instead of freewhee (like on the Giant) also it has bolted triple ring instead of rivetted (like on the Giant.) The Giant is 27# without pedals (as weighed on the shop scale.)

But at $420, is about $100 cheaper than the JR.

So do I pay $100 more to be able to use cassette cogs and the option to swap a bashguard for the big ring?

Looks like the Dale is right inline with the JR. So I might be tempted to go that route if the fork is really compliant.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

traffic002 said:


> I'm gonna take a look at that Cannondale today at a LBS. I looked at a Giant XCT. Not too bad. The fork is actually softer than the one that comes on Hotrocks and Trek bikes.
> 
> TAlking with the shop guy, it looks like the Scott Scale JR comes with cassette hub instead of freewhee (like on the Giant) also it has bolted triple ring instead of rivetted (like on the Giant.) The Giant is 27# without pedals (as weighed on the shop scale.)
> 
> ...


I personally think the bolted rings are important. When I put the shorten cranks on my son's bike with real chain rings, he noticed a huge improvement when trying to up shift the front.

All the cranks I've seen on kids bikes have shitty rings which makes the front upshift hard on smaller, weaker hands.


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## marti (Oct 18, 2005)

Traffic002, I look forward to your comments after you see one in person as I have no opportunity to do that before ordering...

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## slowpoke2 (Jan 28, 2013)

update?


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

I wasn't able to make it into my LBS this weekend.

I just got off the phone with them to see if they have in stock. They do.

So I'm gonna see if I can stop by this evening.

But initially, compared to the Scott Scale JR 24", some key differences are:

Rivetted chainrings vs bolt
freewheel hub vs cassette
air adjustable fork vs softly "sprung" coil fork

Also factoring in that my local LBS carries the 'Dale. While I have to go out of my way to order the Scott from another bike shop much farther away.

I've abandoned trying to get a featherweight bike. I think I am going to focus more on gears that make sense and shifters that would work smoothly. And probably most key is a fork that would actually work for my boy with his weight and the trails we will be riding on (roots, rocks, wet, singletrack)


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## jredling (Aug 12, 2009)

I picked up the same cannondale for my 8 year old son. With the weather he hasn't ridden it too much but says he loves it so far. When I compressed the fork I noticed that the rebound was really slow coming back up. I did not see a rebound adjuster anywhere but didn't look too hard. Other than that the bike seems really nice.


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## slowpoke2 (Jan 28, 2013)

I ordered this bike today. Hopefully it works out well for my son. Looks like they have a "medium" and "large" version of the bike. I believe the Top tube length is different on each.
Not sure if this is standard with other brands.

thanks for the replies.


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## marti (Oct 18, 2005)

Hi, is there a rebound adjuster on the bottom of the right fork leg?

Reading this thread

http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/rst-f1rst-air-24-a-755600-4.html

and post #100 has a close up image of a rebound adjuster on the RST F1RST Air 24 however I cant see one on the image on the cannondale website, maybe cannondale have gone for a cheaper version of the fork with no adjustable rebound, hope not...


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## jredling (Aug 12, 2009)

Damn, I hope not because that comes up really slow. I will have to check later.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

I took a look at the Cannondale today. Only for a short time.

The action on the fork is much nicer than anything else I've felt on kids bike. Actually has damping. It's air adjust for weight. The fork that comes on the 'dale doesn't have the rebound knob. Or maybe it fell off? But wasn't there.

It seems to have a friendlier standover than the Spec' XC bike. But the Spec looks to have a slightly nicer drivetrain.

Weighed both bikes with plastic platform pedals.

'Dale = 25.7#
XC = 27.01#

Now the XC did have an aluminum kickstand on it and wheel reflectors. But I was pleasantly surprised at the weight of the 'Dale.

This might be a good bike right out of the box. And possibly have a good platform for some upgrades. I might try my hand at building wheels again with my buddy's old XT hubs from his Ibis Alibi. That and my spare X9 RD could help shave some weight.

But just wondering what kind of crankset options there are without breaking the bank.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

BTW, in that picture of the aftermarket version of the fork shows an adjustable compression damping. The fork on the 'Dale just has a lock-out dial. Works very smooth and well.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

traffic002 said:


> I took a look at the Cannondale today. Only for a short time.
> 
> The action on the fork is much nicer than anything else I've felt on kids bike. Actually has damping. It's air adjust for weight. The fork that comes on the 'dale doesn't have the rebound knob. Or maybe it fell off? But wasn't there.
> 
> ...


I got these for my son and had him shorten the ones that came on my daughters Shred 2.0
SRAM S600 MTB crankarms Shortened

Really quality work.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Man I just saw the all black 24 inch with a rigid lefty. kinda badass


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## jredling (Aug 12, 2009)

Damn, I just double checked and noticed that there is no rebound adjuster.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

Yeah, the fork on the Race looked pretty basic with only lock-out adjustment. Still, the action on the fork felt pretty good.

I saw some thread about setting up the fork. Someone was recommending 25% sag. I don't know if I agree with that. I tried that on my own Sektor Fork on a hardtail. But maybe that's my own riding style. The larger sag makes the fork mushy when I'm out of the saddle which is about 50% of the time. Also, I prefer to bounce off of roots and rocks a little more to help me clear a group of obstacles rather than soaking each one individually.

Now I will say that it allows the front wheel to track better on bumpy surfaces especially in a turn. And maybe for an inexperienced rider that is better. So we'll see. At least it is a setting that you can play around with.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

Hey guys,

So I ended up getting the Cannondale for my son's birthday present. I've decided to keep it stock as long as possible. Maybe he'll grow into the 26" XS sooner than later. We'll see.

So first ride out Saturday. Very interesting. I took him out to Duthie Hill Park near my house. It's a man-made bike park that has XC to DH trails. Lots of practice areas for all range of skill levels.

So couple of notes.

I have to check the air pressure in the forks. On the trail, it didn't move for him. So it may be set with too much preload. He was pretty much riding a rigid fork. Mind you, my son is small at 10y/o. 53" and 62#.

Lots of pedal strikes. I don't know if I need to get shorter crankset or flatter pedals or what. Obviously he's gotta learn how to time his pedal strokes eventually. But there is not much ground clearance with his pedal in the down position. This makes cresting a rocky bump or slight leans as he climbs very challenging with the number of pedal strikes.

The pedal strikes bother him more than anything. But after the ride, he asked me when the next time we were going to ride again. Hopefully sooner than later.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

The pedal strikes are probably due to the fact that every kids bike comes with cranks that are too long for a kid.

I bought shortened cranks for my kids from SRAM S600 MTB crankarms Shortened


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

So the specs on the 'Dale says 152mm cranks. What length would be more appropriate?

BTW, are the threads for the BB standard on the Cannondale? Can I just swap out the BB and thus run the crankset?


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

sory double post


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

So I don't know much about BB other than Shimano hollowtech. But looks like the 'Dale comes with square taper BB with Suntour alloy 152mm cranks. (no spec info on BCD).

But I read in another Orbea build thread of OP picking up Sinz 145mm cranks. I looked online and Amazon lists them for $45. Then I suppose I'd have to pick up a couple chainrings and a bash? 

I guess I don't need to care about BCD of OEM crankset since I have to buy new rings anyway (the OEM rings are pinned.)

Does this sound right?

Also...(apologies) my son's old Redline Proline Mini has 145mm square taper crankset. Can I just pull the cranks off of it and swap 'em onto the Canndale?


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

Oh, about the fork. Yeah, it didn't move much. My son would have done better to ride a rigid fork. When I got home, I checked the air pressure and it was set at 40psi. The chart calls for 20-40 kg at 30-40psi. I guess my son is 28kg. So maybe I'll try the 30psi setting. Although it seems more like he can't blow past the initial stiction in the fork.

I can only hope it'll break in over time and that my son will get a little bigger and ride more aggressively soon...


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

traffic002 said:


> Also...(apologies) my son's old Redline Proline Mini has 145mm square taper crankset. Can I just pull the cranks off of it and swap 'em onto the Canndale?


It looks like the redline probably came setup as a singlespeed? Square taper crank should easily interchange but can the redline crank accomidate additional chainrings or are you willing to give up front shifting? a 152mm crank does not sound terribly long for a 24" wheeled bike. How big/old is your kid, might help to determine crank length. If the pedals are really wide and clunky, some slimmer pedals could be a good upgrade to also help reduce ground-stikes.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

GrayJay said:


> It looks like the redline probably came setup as a singlespeed? Square taper crank should easily interchange but can the redline crank accomidate additional chainrings or are you willing to give up front shifting? a 152mm crank does not sound terribly long for a 24" wheeled bike. How big/old is your kid, might help to determine crank length. If the pedals are really wide and clunky, some slimmer pedals could be a good upgrade to also help reduce ground-stikes.


The Redline crankset is truly single speed. I'm fine with losing the front shifting on the Cannodale.

I think the 3-rings are actually quite a joke. Confuses the hell out of my son as he's just trying to keep up with proper pedal positioning as he goes through the single track. He gets the rear shifting. But the front shifting is so awkward in action. What the heck do these kids need a big ring for??? The small ring, I can sorta understand...

Oh, my son is 53" tall and about 64#.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

Redline cranks probably would be a good change for time being and would loose some weight and complexity. Might just want to leave the front derailler locked in place over the chainring as a chain-guard but you could remove the cables and shifter. After he grows a bit and aquires more confidence with shifting, you can always go back to a longer double or triple crank. 
Agree that providing kids with gearing choice only appropirate for bombing down a hill at 30+ mph is not a great idea!


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## fongster (Dec 5, 2011)

Hi guys, I'm looking at this bike for my 8 y/o daughter. I saw on here and heard from one shop that it comes in two sizes (?) The C-dale site's geo link is dead so I can't look there. Their specs page doesn't mention it. Is it true? And if so, does the TT get longer by much going from a M to L? I did see 310mm and 340mm an online store's site, I'm guessing those numbers are the seatpost's? Thanks. 

BTW the shock is super plush feeling compared to the spring one's on Scott, etc.


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## khaotom (Mar 14, 2011)

Can you fit the X9 RD on the Dale when it is a 7-Speed freewheel? My kid have the GT Stomper 24 that come with the 7-Speed freewheel and I am stuck with Tourney RD and when I replace it with a EZ-Fire swifter i have a hard time shifting to the lowest gear. The LBS told me I need to lace a new 24 wheel with a 9-speed hub in order to perform any upgrade.



traffic002 said:


> I took a look at the Cannondale today. Only for a short time.
> 
> The action on the fork is much nicer than anything else I've felt on kids bike. Actually has damping. It's air adjust for weight. The fork that comes on the 'dale doesn't have the rebound knob. Or maybe it fell off? But wasn't there.
> 
> ...


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

khaotom said:


> Can you fit the X9 RD on the Dale when it is a 7-Speed freewheel? My kid have the GT Stomper 24 that come with the 7-Speed freewheel and I am stuck with Tourney RD and when I replace it with a EZ-Fire swifter i have a hard time shifting to the lowest gear. The LBS told me I need to lace a new 24 wheel with a 9-speed hub in order to perform any upgrade.


 Sram RD will not play nicely with shimano shifters, the RD & shifters use different pull ratio and need to be paired correctly for acceptabe index shifting. Getting rid of the nutted freewheel hub is probably a good upgrade path just in terms of reducing weight and improving upgrade possibilities. Pretty easy to find used non-disk casette hubs dirt cheap these days as they are not desireable for use with disk brakes that most all decent MTBs come with now. Get a 32-spoke casette hub and re-lace the rim onto the hub. 7-speed freehubs are a bit less common but you could easily go to 8/9/10 speed freehub and casette, would just need to match the # of shifter clicks to the casette.

If you dont want to mess with wheel building and just keep the 7s freewheel, you can upgrade the RD to most any other shimano RD, should still work fine with 7s shifters and freewheel.


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

Hey Guys, I'm picking one of these up for my daughter this weekend. I'll be changing the stock 14-28 7 speed Freewheel to a 13-32 IRD that is currently on her 20" bike and eventually I'll change the cranks out to some Lasco 152mm 104/64 bcd cranks.

Lasco Crankset

IRD Free wheel

eventually I'm be lacing some disc hubs to the rims so I can put a 9 speed, maybe 10 speed set up on the bike along with disc brakes. We live in Colorado and ride in the mountains so she needs as much gearing and braking as possible.

Last weekend in Buffalo Creek...I can't wait to get her out there on bigger wheels!


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

Can the Lasco cranks come with shorter arms? It's the same length as the stock cranks at 152mm. My son gets frustrated with all the pedal strikes he gets.


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## QueenMAUW (Sep 3, 2010)

fongster said:


> Hi guys, I'm looking at this bike for my 8 y/o daughter. I saw on here and heard from one shop that it comes in two sizes (?) The C-dale site's geo link is dead so I can't look there. Their specs page doesn't mention it. Is it true? And if so, does the TT get longer by much going from a M to L? I did see 310mm and 340mm an online store's site, I'm guessing those numbers are the seatpost's? Thanks.
> 
> BTW the shock is super plush feeling compared to the spring one's on Scott, etc.


The geometry link works for me using both US and Canada as countries. And yes it comes in 2 sizes. Medium is a 12.2 seat tube length and large is a 13.4 seat tube length. I took a screenshot of the geo page for you below:









And this PDF from Cannondale's site has a bit of info on supposed inseams which I'm uncertain are totally accurate.  http://media.cannondale.com/media/catalogues/14_c_CUSA_Bike_Catalog_KIDS.pdf


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## fongster (Dec 5, 2011)

Wow, I forgot about this thread...it's been over a year since I first chimed on it. Well, we bought the bike, a medium. It still fits my daughter who is now 65# and 4' 7". Other than swapping tires for Maxxis Snypers, the bike is stock. She raced it last summer and captured 9 Firsts and 2 seconds for the season.


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## QueenMAUW (Sep 3, 2010)

fongster said:


> Wow, I forgot about this thread...it's been over a year since I first chimed on it. Well, we bought the bike, a medium. It still fits my daughter who is now 65# and 4' 7". Other than swapping tires for Maxxis Snypers, the bike is stock. She raced it last summer and captured 9 Firsts and 2 seconds for the season.


Ha ha, brain dead apparently. I thought your reply was from April 2014! :lol: Sorry about that. 

But at least it got you to update us, right? 

Do you recall her size when you initially bought it?


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

traffic002 said:


> Can the Lasco cranks come with shorter arms? It's the same length as the stock cranks at 152mm. My son gets frustrated with all the pedal strikes he gets.


I don't believe so but Bike Smith Design will sell shortened cranks to your needs. I have a set of Truvativ Isoflows that I'm getting shortened to 140mm for my younger daughter's 20 inch bike.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

mountaingoatepics said:


> Hey Guys, I'm picking one of these up for my daughter this weekend. I'll be changing the stock 14-28 7 speed Freewheel to a 13-32 IRD that is currently on her 20" bike and eventually I'll change the cranks out to some Lasco 152mm 104/64 bcd cranks.
> 
> Lasco Crankset
> 
> ...


She's going to love it. Bought one for my daughter about 3 weeks ago. Already have carbon bars and LX shifters. Picking up some BB7s this weekend and have Novatec hubs on order


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> She's going to love it. Bought one for my daughter about 3 weeks ago. Already have carbon bars and LX shifters. Picking up some BB7s this weekend and have Novatec hubs on order


Before you get those BB7's, look at this deal: SHIMANO-BR-M446-BL-M445-Hydraulic-Brake

Same brakes as what comes stock on the Opus Fever. I'm seriously considering them.

I have a set of aqua blue Novatec hubs laying in my garage. NOt quite a color match but they'll do and their disk.

What tires did you end up running? The stock Cannondale's are semi slicks and we ride real trails so was thinking of picking up some Specialized Rollers. 610 gr ea but good tread pattern.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

They come in white too.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

mountaingoatepics said:


> Before you get those BB7's, look at this deal: SHIMANO-BR-M446-BL-M445-Hydraulic-Brake
> 
> Same brakes as what comes stock on the Opus Fever. I'm seriously considering them.
> 
> ...


Take my advice for what it's worth, this is based on my son. I don't think hydros are good for kids. They are still learning to modulate brakes properly. With mechanical, I can adjustment so they slow down the wheel but won't lock up and cause an OTB. As they get better you can adjust that out.

I'm run Moe Joe- rear Rocket Ron - front on my sons and will be ordering those for my Daughter.
They are about 420g each


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Take my advice for what it's worth, this is based on my son. I don't think hydros are good for kids. They are still learning to modulate brakes properly. With mechanical, I can adjustment so they slow down the wheel but won't lock up and cause an OTB. As they get better you can adjust that out.
> 
> I'm run Moe Joe- rear Rocket Ron - front on my sons and will be ordering those for my Daughter.
> They are about 420g each


Thanks for the tires. I'm looking at Hydros as we live in Colorado and some of our downhills are over 7 miles long. That's a workout on v brakes and little hands. Looking at Hydros to give her some relief. There's a few kids here riding Lil Shredders with Hydros and all seem to be doing well with them. I personally dislike the BB7's I have on my Fat Bike otherwise I'd put them on her bike.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Has anyone looked at the Islabikes Craig. Definitely more money but comes with disks, decent fork. My sister is looking for a bike for her son and was asking me about it. My son has grown out of 24's so I haven't really been paying much attention to this forum.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

AKamp said:


> Has anyone looked at the Islabikes Craig. Definitely more money but comes with disks, decent fork. My sister is looking for a bike for her son and was asking me about it. My son has grown out of 24's so I haven't really been paying much attention to this forum.


Yes I did, but as I've said $1000 for a bike with X5 RD doesn't do it for me. The Cannondale Race is $500 and with the other $400-$500, I'll end up with a much better bike in my opinion.


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## bleumax (May 15, 2014)

fongster said:


> Wow, I forgot about this thread...it's been over a year since I first chimed on it. Well, we bought the bike, a medium. It still fits my daughter who is now 65# and 4' 7". Other than swapping tires for Maxxis Snypers, the bike is stock. She raced it last summer and captured 9 Firsts and 2 seconds for the season.


My 8yo son is about the same weight and height. Would you recommend the medium or the large? They don't seem to stock the 24" Race around me, so I'll have to order the bike without my son trying it out. Thanks!


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

Just curious to peoples thoughts,,,,my son is growing rather quickly, and his 20 inch Specialized is nearing the end from a size perspective. The 24 inch used to seem like a logical next step, but I recently had my son try a 15 inch frame with 26 wheels at the lbs. It was not as big as I thought
Realistically, I dont want to buy one of these and in one year wish I had just gotten a small adulat frame mtb....thoughts?


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

bleumax said:


> My 8yo son is about the same weight and height. Would you recommend the medium or the large? They don't seem to stock the 24" Race around me, so I'll have to order the bike without my son trying it out. Thanks!


IMHO I'd go with the medium. I went with a medium with my daughter and she is about the same height. My reasoning is for flickability. I'm switching out the 60mm stem for a 40mm as soon as we get it. The stem can be changed as she grows taller.

Sure, a larger frame means she can be on it a bit longer. But by the time she is ready for that larger frame she will be ready for a 26er.



fat_tires_are_fun said:


> Just curious to peoples thoughts,,,,my son is growing rather quickly, and his 20 inch Specialized is nearing the end from a size perspective. The 24 inch used to seem like a logical next step, but I recently had my son try a 15 inch frame with 26 wheels at the lbs. It was not as big as I thought
> Realistically, I dont want to buy one of these and in one year wish I had just gotten a small adulat frame mtb....thoughts?


The smaller frame will fit them now and as I'm taking my girl on actual mountain bike trails I want her to be able to maneuver the bike as easily as possible. I see a lot of parents putting their kids on bikes larger then child's size in the hopes that they'll grow into them. Sure they can pedal them but can they lift the front wheel off the ground or handle them in technical terrain.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

Thanks for the response ^^. This is a good point if doing very technical riding. I will have to have him try one in person.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

My son is now 4'10" and on a 26 for reference. He has been on it for about a year now since he was a hair under 4'9". His riding got much better as soon as he got on the 26. It seemed a little big for him last year but fits great now. If they are on the verge you may think about trying to get one more year out of what they are on and then build up a small 26.


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## bleumax (May 15, 2014)

Thanks for the different perspectives.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

mountaingoatepics said:


> IMHO I'd go with the medium. I went with a medium with my daughter and she is about the same height. My reasoning is for flickability. I'm switching out the 60mm stem for a 40mm as soon as we get it. The stem can be changed as she grows taller.
> 
> Sure, a larger frame means she can be on it a bit longer. But by the time she is ready for that larger frame she will be ready for a 26er.
> 
> The smaller frame will fit them now and as I'm taking my girl on actual mountain bike trails I want her to be able to maneuver the bike as easily as possible. I see a lot of parents putting their kids on bikes larger then child's size in the hopes that they'll grow into them. Sure they can pedal them but can they lift the front wheel off the ground or handle them in technical terrain.


This is key, so many people push to get them on a 26er too fast in my opinion.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

AKamp said:


> My son is now 4'10" and on a 26 for reference. He has been on it for about a year now since he was a hair under 4'9". His riding got much better as soon as he got on the 26. It seemed a little big for him last year but fits great now. If they are on the verge you may think about trying to get one more year out of what they are on and then build up a small 26.


I'd like to see pictures of your son handling the bike in the air, or log overs etc...

Can he wheelie or manual it?

I'm not bashing, but depending on what you're trying to teach your kids will make a difference.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Little log crossing about a year ago comming down Jedi in Flagstaff. I agree though , depends on what you want to ride and how you want it to fit. His fits very well for XC


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## bleumax (May 15, 2014)

TwoTone said:


> This is key, so many people push to get them on a 26er too fast in my opinion.


Makes sense. I'll go with the 24 for him. I incorrectly started him with a BMX bike, so this time I'll try to get it right.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)




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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

One of the last rides on his 24


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Oops wrong pic but it shows the arm.

And then 4 or 5 months later on the 26


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Maybe my kid needs a 20"


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## bleumax (May 15, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your input. I took my son to the bike shop today and tried a smorgasbord of bikes. He wasn't able to try the Race, but he tried the Trail and the Street. The Cannondale frame was definitely the right fit for him and the Cannondales were noticeably lighter than the other bikes he tried. Placed the order for the Race 24. It might be here as early as the end of next week. My son is pretty excited.

By the way, are the fork and the paint job the main differences between the Trail and the Race?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

bleumax said:


> Thanks everyone for your input. I took my son to the bike shop today and tried a smorgasbord of bikes. He wasn't able to try the Race, but he tried the Trail and the Street. The Cannondale frame was definitely the right fit for him and the Cannondales were noticeably lighter than the other bikes he tried. Placed the order for the Race 24. It might be here as early as the end of next week. My son is pretty excited.
> 
> By the way, are the fork and the paint job the main differences between the Trail and the Race?


No the Race is a huge step up, comes with a lighter air fork. The Trail has a heavy coil.


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

The main differences is the fork and crank( Trail has a single chainring, Race has 3). If you live in an area that has flat, smooth trails the Trail will probably be ok. If you live in an area that has even moderate trails I'd recommend the Race. If you have the cash, go the Race anyway. Its only $90 extra retail and a better buy. I ordered my daughters on Thursday and it should be here by Tuesday.

Immediate Upgrades:
60mm stem changed to a 32mm (her current bike has a 17.5 top tube and a 50mm stem. The Medium has a 19.7 toptube and is stretching her out more then I like.
13-28 cassette changed to a 13-32. We live at the base of the Front Range Mountains in Colorado. Our current 8-10 mile loop that we do from the house has almost 800 ft of climbing and she wants to do more Mountain rides which means she'll need gearing for extended climbs. 
Lasco 152mm 104/64mm cranks. Cranks that come on the bike have rivited chainrings. I want options and the possibility to go 1x.

Future Upgrades:
Carbon Bars
Carbon Seatpost
wheels built to 9 speed disc hubs
Disc brakes
possible 1x9 or 1x10 with a 30 tooth chainring 11-42 cassette
Jpaks custom framebag, seatbag, handlebar bag for bikepacking


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## dcp_nz (Apr 16, 2009)

mountaingoatepics said:


> ..... Its only $90 extra retail and a better buy. .....


Not MSRP according to cannondale site - $550 vs $420 girls (or $440 for boys version)
Are you talking street pricing?


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

dcp_nz said:


> Not MSRP according to cannondale site - $550 vs $420 girls (or $440 for boys version)
> Are you talking street pricing?


Even at $130 it is still a better value for the Air fork vs sprung, 3 chainring crankset vs 1 chainring and front shifter vs non. That air fork alone is $208 MSRP and good luck finding one. I did from the UK when I was looking to build her a Gary Fisher Precaliber but they are hard to find. Two local shops couldn't source that fork or the Spinner Air.

What's curious to me is that Cannondale spec'd these with singlewall rims and non disc hubs, v brakes and the street with doublewall rims, disc hubs and disc brakes.

Also, if you have a good relationship with your local bike shop their more then likely to give you a 10% discount. At least in my experience with shops from North Carolina to Colorado that has been the case. If they don't offer it upfront, ask. Worst they can ever say is no.


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## QueenMAUW (Sep 3, 2010)

mountaingoatepics said:


> What's curious to me is that Cannondale spec'd these with singlewall rims and non disc hubs, v brakes and the street with doublewall rims, disc hubs and disc brakes.


These were the main reasons I was going to go with the Street over the Race since my daughter isn't doing much for off road at this point. Then after I did some research on the Street brakes, I found out the Tektro Novelas are really low quality and I was looking for a bike she could ride out of the box. (here's a post I made about the brakes Just Ordered my Daughter an Islabike Creig 24 (only 23.4 lbs!) - Page 2)

Note that my husband wasn't as worried about the brakes as I was. 

Yesterday we went riding and went through some grassy fields with small hills so if I can get her into more of that it will make the shock we got more worthwhile. :lol:


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

QueenMAUW said:


> These were the main reasons I was going to go with the Street over the Race since my daughter isn't doing much for off road at this point. Then after I did some research on the Street brakes, I found out the Tektro Novelas are really low quality and I was looking for a bike she could ride out of the box. (here's a post I made about the brakes Just Ordered my Daughter an Islabike Creig 24 (only 23.4 lbs!) - Page 2)
> 
> Note that my husband wasn't as worried about the brakes as I was.
> 
> Yesterday we went riding and went through some grassy fields with small hills so if I can get her into more of that it will make the shock we got more worthwhile. :lol:


No doubt. Completely understood. I was going for the Opus Fever until my LBS offered me a deal on the Race that I could not pass up. I'm getting some Sram X9 hubs that were never built from a friend and will be building her some disc ready wheels by the end of this summer. May not go disc for her yet but we do have some 7 mile downhills.

wW did this one last year for Father's Day.

Disc may come sooner.


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## dcp_nz (Apr 16, 2009)

mountaingoatepics said:


> What's curious to me is that Cannondale spec'd these with singlewall rims and non disc hubs, v brakes and the street with doublewall rims, disc hubs and disc brakes.


In my mind clearly an effort to make them feel significantly lighter than competition on the showroom floor -- and it works!!



mountaingoatepics said:


> Also, if you have a good relationship with your local bike shop their more then likely to give you a 10% discount. At least in my experience with shops from North Carolina to Colorado that has been the case. If they don't offer it upfront, ask. Worst they can ever say is no.


Yup, just about every bike shop in a 300 mile radius EXCEPT my local spec/c'dale dealer.


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## bleumax (May 15, 2014)

dcp_nz said:


> In my mind clearly an effort to make them feel significantly lighter than competition on the showroom floor -- and it works!!
> 
> Yup, just about every bike shop in a 300 mile radius EXCEPT my local spec/c'dale dealer.


Very true. The bike is super light. The tires are skinny too.

In my area, pricing is all over the place, but within 10% of MSRP. The local dealer that I bought the Race from discounted about 10% off of MSRP. Oddly, the in-stock Street was priced higher than the Race - maybe since they have no inventory costs on my Race order.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

QueenMAUW said:


> The geometry link works for me using both US and Canada as countries. And yes it comes in 2 sizes. Medium is a 12.2 seat tube length and large is a 13.4 seat tube length. I took a screenshot of the geo page for you below:
> 
> View attachment 893136
> 
> ...


Holy chainstay length! Why are the chainstays so long???


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## dcp_nz (Apr 16, 2009)

Have any of you compared the c'dale race 24 with the trek superfly 24 disc?

Fork clearly superior on the c'dale but lots other stuff appears better on the trek (8 speed cassette vs 7 speed freewheel, shimano hydro disc vs generic v brake, slightly better rear derailleur). Same weight with a heavy fork and disc brakes (trek 25.4 lbs no pedals or kickstand). Upgrade options possibly easier/cheaper by swapping fork instead of new hubs,wheels,cassette,brakes etc. Does the extra $100 buy a better platform to work with or do you all like the cannondale better?


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

dcp_nz said:


> Have any of you compared the c'dale race 24 with the trek superfly 24 disc?
> 
> Fork clearly superior on the c'dale but lots other stuff appears better on the trek (8 speed cassette vs 7 speed freewheel, shimano hydro disc vs generic v brake, slightly better rear derailleur). Same weight with a heavy fork and disc brakes (trek 25.4 lbs no pedals or kickstand). Upgrade options possibly easier/cheaper by swapping fork instead of new hubs,wheels,cassette,brakes etc. Does the extra $100 buy a better platform to work with or do you all like the cannondale better?


Pros and cons to both

The Air forks in the 24 inch size are hard to find. About $200 + to do so. I originally was going to buy a Gary Fisher Pre Caliber and just use the frame, probably donating all the parts to the local Trips for Kids. I still may of came out cheaper this way but the folks who had the Gary Fisher wanted 120, add in the fork and I was already near $350.

The Trek comes with a 104/64 crankset it appears while the C' dale comes with riveted chainrings to the cranks. Important for me as I plan on switching over to either a 1x or 2x system for my daughter. I bought a Lasco Crank though which is better then the one on the Trek. If hers came with with bolted cranks though I wouldn't have changed them.

I'm wanting to go at least 9 sp and possibly 10 sp so either way I would've upgraded the cassette, rear shifter and rear derailleur. This more because we live in the actual mountains and I want her to have a 22x34 or 36. Again, donating all the parts to the local Trips for Kids.

I'm gonna give a go at the V brakes. She has been riding with them on her 20" for 2 years but I'll be building a wheelset for disc in the future. Looking X9 Hubs because I can get them cheap.

If your going to spend $659 for the Trek. Do yourself a favor and spend a few dollars more and get the Opus Fever. Go to their dealer locator and find one in the States that way. Denver, CO has a dealer and had an Opus Fever in stock and I was very close to pulling the trigger on that as well. $750 was the quoted price and worth every penny imho.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

GSJ1973 said:


> Holy chainstay length! Why are the chainstays so long???


Have you looked at kids bikes? Most are a 420mm. It's one reason I bought the Marin Bayview for my son.

He into tricks more than my daughter, so the shorter CS was important.


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

I picked up my daughter's Cannondale Race last night from the bike shop and put it together. She got to to ride it for a bit this morning and said it was Awesome! I weighed it at 26.2 lbs out of the box. The stem handlebars and seatpost will be the 1st to go and I have some Avid Single Digit 3 V brakes to replace the current ones, if just to loose a little weight. More coming and I'll post up as I make changes.


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## bleumax (May 15, 2014)

That's terrific. She looks happy. Hopefully, my son will receive his this week too.

If you could note what kind of handlebars and stem you pick up as replacements, that would be much appreciated. I'll likely swap out my son's too.



mountaingoatepics said:


> I picked up my daughter's Cannondale Race last night from the bike shop and put it together. She got to to ride it for a bit this morning and said it was Awesome! I weighed it at 26.2 lbs out of the box. The stem handlebars and seatpost will be the 1st to go and I have some Avid Single Digit 3 V brakes to replace the current ones, if just to loose a little weight. More coming and I'll post up as I make changes.


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## dcp_nz (Apr 16, 2009)

Okay, now i'm very confused

^^^ does not look like the race 24" I am looking at at my LBS. The one here (and on c'dale website) has a straight top tube not curved like your image. I thought only street and trail versions had curved top tube but apparently not....
Are there two versions? Different versions for different markets?


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## bleumax (May 15, 2014)

dcp_nz said:


> Okay, now i'm very confused
> 
> ^^^ does not look like the race 24" I am looking at at my LBS. The one here (and on c'dale website) has a straight top tube not curved like your image. I thought only street and trail versions had curved top tube but apparently not....
> Are there two versions? Different versions for different markets?


Is that one of the differences between the medium and large frame?


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## dcp_nz (Apr 16, 2009)

bleumax said:


> Is that one of the differences between the medium and large frame?


I don't think so - LBS has both a med and large on the floor and to the best of my memory I'm fairly certain both have straight top tube. I admit wasn't really looking at that though so I stand to be corrected if it is.


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## bleumax (May 15, 2014)

dcp_nz said:


> I don't think so - LBS has both a med and large on the floor and to the best of my memory I'm fairly certain both have straight top tube. I admit wasn't really looking at that though so I stand to be corrected if it is.


Girl's version or 2013 model year, perhaps?

Cannondale Kids 2013 | Infinite Cycles Bike Shop

When I ordered my son's Race, the sales guy commented on how the frame geometry was different than the Street and my son could get another year out of it. He also said it was lighter than the Street. I took his comments with a grain of sale because I wasn't confident that he was knowledgeable about the Race since they don't keep it in stock.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dcp_nz said:


> Okay, now i'm very confused
> 
> ^^^ does not look like the race 24" I am looking at at my LBS. The one here (and on c'dale website) has a straight top tube not curved like your image. I thought only street and trail versions had curved top tube but apparently not....
> Are there two versions? Different versions for different markets?


My daughters race has the same bend in the middle of the TT and its a medium.
I bet it's the frame size.


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> My daughters race has the same bend in the middle of the TT and its a medium.
> I bet it's the frame size.


I'm thinking so as well.

Two Tone, did you stick with the 152mm crank length?
The BB is the same height as her 20" but her 20" had 140mm cranks and she has hit the pedals a few times on the road making a turn.

I've tried teaching her the fundementals of making a turn, inside pedal up, outside pedal down but of course she still was doing it 

Anyway, correct length crank for for her 26 inch inseam is 145mm, she's going to grow so I thought about getting some anyway as her sister will grow into this bike.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

mountaingoatepics said:


> I'm thinking so as well.
> 
> Two Tone, did you stick with the 152mm crank length?
> The BB is the same height as her 20" but her 20" had 140mm cranks and she has hit the pedals a few times on the road making a turn.
> ...


I am for now, not sure which way to go. She's pretty good with pedaling technique, I started that lesson even on their 12 inch bike- guess that's one advantage over a balance bike.

My son has the shortened cranks from Bikesmith design. I agree with you I have to do something. The front rings are garbage on any kids bikes. When I put on the shorten cranks for my son it was a night and day difference, it had Raceface rings with proper shift ramps.

So far I've done the bar- carbon and trigger shifters.

I'm trying to balance how much I do. My son I went all out because he is trying to wheelie, bunny hope, hits the ramps with no fear. She- not so much.


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## QueenMAUW (Sep 3, 2010)

Looks to me like the medium frame is the same frame that's used on the Street 24. And then for the large, they are using a larger frame with straight top bar. 

Love the black/green version. And the little girl riding is super cute!


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## lodalo (Jul 30, 2014)

Did anyone consider the Specialized Hotrock 24 XC? It appears to me that the components are much better with the sole exception of the fork. It is also $470 MSRP.
I am interested to hear your thoughts on the comparison.
thanks!
Specialized Bicycle Components


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

lodalo said:


> Did anyone consider the Specialized Hotrock 24 XC? It appears to me that the components are much better with the sole exception of the fork. It is also $470 MSRP.
> I am interested to hear your thoughts on the comparison.
> thanks!
> Specialized Bicycle Components


Except the fork? That's a huge but. I really don't see what you're saying is better on that bike vs. the Cannondale. Keep in mind, you're getting a $200 plus fork on the C-dale if you went out and bought one yourself for $30 more.


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## dcp_nz (Apr 16, 2009)

lodalo said:


> Did anyone consider the Specialized Hotrock 24 XC? It appears to me that the components are much better with the sole exception of the fork. It is also $470 MSRP.
> I am interested to hear your thoughts on the comparison.
> thanks!
> Specialized Bicycle Components


Bikes at this pricepoint are all about compromise.
Spesh put the standard low end heavy suntour fork on and upgraded components across the board. The cannondale put a oem version of a nice air fork on and dumbed down the components to the lowest level available. Pick your poison.

Lodalo, some folks on this forum seem to think an air fork is the be all and end all of choosing a kids bike. It's true they are hard to find aftermarket to upgrade so if it's important to you then by all means go that route.

Yes, twotone the drivetrain on the spesh is at least a step or two better - on side by side test rides even my 7 yo noticed immediately how much smoother and easier to shift it was.

For my part after looking for ages at just about everything available and being very close to buying the Rocky Mountain Vertex 24 for a lot more money that checked every box of my wish list I picked up a used Hotrock in great shape at the right price.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dcp_nz said:


> Bikes at this pricepoint are all about compromise.
> Spesh put the standard low end heavy suntour fork on and upgraded components across the board. The cannondale put a oem version of a nice air fork on and dumbed down the components to the lowest level available. Pick your poison.
> 
> Lodalo, some folks on this forum seem to think an air fork is the be all and end all of choosing a kids bike. It's true they are hard to find aftermarket to upgrade so if it's important to you then by all means go that route.
> ...


Well, I guess my problem I see as barely better and I end up putting my old XT or cheap ebay XTR stuff on anyway, wouldn't have matter which bike.

Not sure if you're dismissing the air fork or not, but that one upgrade made a huge difference for my son's Marin and it cost me $220, so to be able to get that for $30 more- to me seemed like a no brainer.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

dcp_nz said:


> Pick your poison.


All of these bikes seem to be over 26 pounds, so I agree. These bikes need to be in the 22-23 pound range so buy the platform and drop another $500+ to make them lighter. Might as well get the better fork from the beginning.


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## dcp_nz (Apr 16, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> Well, I guess my problem I see as barely better and I end up putting my old XT or cheap ebay XTR stuff on anyway, wouldn't have matter which bike.
> 
> Not sure if you're dismissing the air fork or not, but that one upgrade made a huge difference for my son's Marin and it cost me $220, so to be able to get that for $30 more- to me seemed like a no brainer.


If you've got a spare parts bin of high end components then thats a great way to get a nice bike - most folks just looking for a decent bike for their kid do not have that luxury of available parts, skill set or time.

I'm not dismissing an air fork per se - no doubt it is a huge performance upgrade in terms of actually functionality, small bump compliance, tunability and weight. But IMHO it only makes sense to prioritize that if your kid is going to benefit from those things - lots of kids at the age of riding these 24" bikes will never leave the pavement and if they do it'll only be on a smooth rail trail for which an air fork is overkill.

I'm one of the worst of poring over spec sheets and weighing pros and cons of various bikes and trying to choose what I want in a bike for my kid that I get so wrapped up in trying to choose the "best" or the "best value" but at the end of the day my kid would ride the bikes and say she liked one because it was comfortable and easy to change gears and she didn't like another because the stand over was too high or the reach was too long or the shifters were stiff and hard to use (and unfortunately we had tears one time over the colors too).

Now having stumbled across and bought an inexpensive used bike that fits my daughter well and she likes and is comfortable on (which based on specs, components and weight probably wouldn't have been the one I would have bought new) we are out riding a ton and tackling real MTB trails that I could not have anticipated riding with her a month ago.

So my takeaway from going through the process recently is to figure out what compromise is acceptable to you, or how much work you are willing to put in and then buy a bike that your kid likes and fits and go ride a lot with them. 
(Sorry on reread that comes across a little preachy and it's really not intended to be but I think as bike enthusiast adults we agonize over stuff the kids don't care about or notice).

Apologies for getting so far off topic of the C'dale race 24 ......


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Since we're on the C-dale 24 subject anyway.

Hoping one of you might be able to save me some search time. Her wheels are almost done, so i need to find a 32t WN ring for the front, the Raceface is working well on my son's bike, but she's a girl. I'm hoping to find someone that makes one in Pink.


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Since we're on the C-dale 24 subject anyway.
> 
> Hoping one of you might be able to save me some search time. Her wheels are almost done, so i need to find a 32t WN ring for the front, the Raceface is working well on my son's bike, but she's a girl. I'm hoping to find someone that makes one in Pink.


I thought Raceface made one in Pink but it may be hard to find.

Another cheap upgrade to consider is grips. My daughter was complaining about hand pain. I replaced her grips with some ESI Race Grips (smaller diameter) and her complaints instantly went away.

Also if your kids have issue with the stock Shimano Gripshifts, consider Sram X3. You can get it on Ebay for around $60 for the shifters and rear derailluer and my girl is much happier with it.

We live and ride in the Foothills of Colorado. Elevation ranges from 6,000-9,000 ft where I've taken her riding and I will say the air fork plus gears she can easily shift, plus 135mm cranks has made a huge improvement in her riding.


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## lodalo (Jul 30, 2014)

*Have the kid help in the decision*

@TwoTone:
You are right about the fork... it is important. I had not realized how stiff and junky the entry level forks are. The specialized seemed better than the trek. The trek felt no different than a Department store fork. I wish I could check the Cannondale fork.
However, I do not have spare parts and the Specialized XC has SRAM X3 rear and shifters which is one of the things mountaingoat epics was recommending above as an upgrade.



dcp_nz said:


> If you've got a spare parts bin of high end components then thats a great way to get a nice bike - most folks just looking for a decent bike for their kid do not have that luxury of available parts, skill set or time.
> 
> I'm not dismissing an air fork per se - no doubt it is a huge performance upgrade in terms of actually functionality, small bump compliance, tunability and weight. But IMHO it only makes sense to prioritize that if your kid is going to benefit from those things - lots of kids at the age of riding these 24" bikes will never leave the pavement and if they do it'll only be on a smooth rail trail for which an air fork is overkill.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for the advice. It is really appreciated and I can relate to it!
:thumbsup:

I have not yet made a purchase but did take my kid to a couple LBS (local shop) and he liked the "feel" of the trek, even though I was telling him that the comparable Specialized model had better 'specs.' 
Sadly, the Cannondale race is a special order item and we can't test ride them. If we decide that the fork is a more important item than the drivetrain, we will get the Cannondale. I have to take my son on a couple outings with the 20" to be sure he is committed and will enjoy it so that I can gauge how much to spend now (24" wheels) or how much to save for when he is more interested (26" wheels.)


*Does the Cannondale air fork feel the same as a 'regular' adult air fork?

*


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## lodalo (Jul 30, 2014)

hey mountaingoatepics that is a cool photo of your daughter descending over the rocks. The trails look cool too!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

lodalo said:


> @TwoTone:
> You are right about the fork... it is important. I had not realized how stiff and junky the entry level forks are. The specialized seemed better than the trek. The trek felt no different than a Department store fork. I wish I could check the Cannondale fork.
> However, I do not have spare parts and the Specialized XC has SRAM X3 rear and shifters which is one of the things mountaingoat epics was recommending above as an upgrade.
> 
> ...


The fork doesn't have all the adjustments an adult fork has, but it is a 1000x better than the junk on other kids bikes.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but I really don't understand choosing a bike with a $19 RD over a bike with $200+ air fork.

If you've been reading the kids bike threads on here, you'll notice a large majority switch to triggers because their kids find it easier to shift over grip.

So even if you don't have a parts bin, X3 RD and shifter = $19 and $16 at Universal Cycles and that isn't even a sale price. So basically you'd be picking Specialized because it comes with $35 worth of drive train.

I'd argue that the X3 is barely a step above the TX-35, but what your child will notice a big difference in going from grip shift to trigger.

If the fork isn't important- then honestly save yourself money and weight and get the street.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

mountaingoatepics said:


> I'm thinking so as well.
> 
> *Two Tone, did you stick with the 152mm crank length?*
> The BB is the same height as her 20" but her 20" had 140mm cranks and she has hit the pedals a few times on the road making a turn.
> ...


So a little late, but I had been shopping ebay trying to find a good deal and just couldn't find any. On one of these threads someone mentioned replacing the shorten Srams from Bikesmith, so I PMed him and bought them for my daughters bike. 140mm. In my experience shorter is better than too long.


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## lodalo (Jul 30, 2014)

@TwoTone
Don't worry.. I am taking no offense and don't feel bad that you are chiming in.. on the other hand, I appreciate your time and willingness to help. 
You have a point about getting the drivetrain parts separately at a better price than getting the fork later on.


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## RidinGiant (Sep 15, 2014)

I just picked this up for my son but the tires have proven to be just a tad too slick. Will the DMR Moto Digger MTB Tires in a 24/2.35" flavor fit? Or is it too wide?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

RidinGiant said:


> I just picked this up for my son but the tires have proven to be just a tad too slick. Will the DMR Moto Digger MTB Tires in a 24/2.35" flavor fit? Or is it too wide?


Man those are heavy as hell. If you go with a Schwalbe rocket ron in a 2.10. Cost a little more but onlu weighs 445g vs 750g.

on 2 tires that's almost 1.25 lbs of rotating weight saved.


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## fongster (Dec 5, 2011)

RidinGiant said:


> I just picked this up for my son but the tires have proven to be just a tad too slick. Will the DMR Moto Digger MTB Tires in a 24/2.35" flavor fit? Or is it too wide?


Agree with TwoTone, those are super heavy. Rocket Rons are good. However, I used Maxxis Snypers with a kevlar bead on my daughter's C-dale for the year she was on the bike (they grow so fast, lol). They held great in corners, rolled fast and were a lot less than $ than RRs. I can't recall the weight but they were right between the RRs and the ones you're asking about. BTW, she dominated the 6-8 y/o kids class on that bike and tire combo


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## RidinGiant (Sep 15, 2014)

Thanks for the tips, glad I checked here first...

Googling both of those tires, it seems like direct from the manufacturer or eBay are my only sources for the 24". Where'd you guys buy yours from?


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## fongster (Dec 5, 2011)

I found mine on Ebay. Your LBS should be able to order them from Maxxis if you can't find them online.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Mine direct from Schwalbe


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Anyone know what the Cannondale race weights stock?
Race 24 Kids - RACE - BOY'S - KIDS - BIKES - 2016


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

Got my daughters size "large" Race 24 on Saturday.

Went through it a bit yesterday evening. Some interesting stuff.

26.8 lbs as delivered (reflectors, etc) - All Weights from My Feedback Scale (10g resolution)

Front wheel (no skewer, but rim strip) - 840g
Rear Wheel (and freewheel) - 1400g (yikes)
Front Skewer - 60g
Rear Skewer - 60g
Stock tubes 160g each

*Here's where it gets a little weird.*
Front Tire was *870* grams
Rear Tire (identical to front) was *630* grams

-both are identically marked Innova 24x1.95 tires. That's some crazy variance. I re-weighed them multiple times. WOW.

Stock Plastic Pedals are 330 grams
Left Crankarm is 250 grams
Right Crankarm with the stock steel rings is 700 grams
Crankset total - 950 grams
Seatpost - 340 g
Saddle - 330 g
Stem - 230 g
Handlebar - 230 g

So far I've replaced the tires (Rocket Rons at 435g each)
Seatpost (gained a bit back here as my daughter really likes her S/T Thudbuster (410g)

Crankset (530 grams as shown)









Stem (a 160 gram unit)
Handlebar (a 140 g Easton Carbon Monkey Light Riser)

Down to just a hair over 24 lbs now. Still have to pull the front derailleur and cabling off (1x7 is plenty for her to keep track of and use)


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

fatchanceti - thanks for the update, pretty easy to shed 2lbs right off the bat. Could lose another 2lbs with a set of wheels, but those can get pricey! 

Thanks
Mark


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

Rebuilding the rear wheel onto a cassette hub would probably help a lot.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

Wow, this is great information. Did you weigh the fork as well just for grins. I'm sure it is still the best fork available for a 24" bike?

What chainring size does the crankset come with? Are you leaving the same cogset for the rear? What crank arm length? Where did you order the crankset?

My son has outgrown his Cannondale Race 24. He didn't get to ride it too much when it fitted him well. Now that he is getting on the big side, we've been hitting the trails more often. So I'll need to move him to a 26" by next season. But I can still save his bike for his younger sister. Might give me a chance to play with replacing some pieces. I knew the wheels were probably pretty heavy. Didn't realize such variance in tire weight? Wow.

Have you thought of replacing the wheels? Or re-lacing with lighter hubs?


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

fatchanceti said:


> Rebuilding the rear wheel onto a cassette hub would probably help a lot.


I agree, wonder what the rim weights? I searched around on google but came up with nothing. Stan's makes a very lightweight rim, but you would need to upgrade to disc brakes.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

I can't recall which thread I read. But the read was that the stock rim is not overly heavy. That if you were to relace with a lighter hub, you'd get a good improvement.

I think the challenge is do you really need disc brakes which I feel adds more weight. I suppose if you plan on riding in the wet a lot, it could make sense to make the transition.


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

I haven't weighed the fork. 

The rear uses a heavy thread on freewheel. That's the boat anchor part. Really need to get to a cassette hub to save any weight back there.


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Circus Monkey hubs are 355 grams a pair on ebay, if the rims are light enough, that wouldnt be to bad $$$ wise.



fatchanceti said:


> I haven't weighed the fork.
> 
> The rear uses a heavy thread on freewheel. That's the boat anchor part. Really need to get to a cassette hub to save any weight back there.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

I put BB7s on my daughters Race.


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

traffic002 said:


> Wow, this is great information. Did you weigh the fork as well just for grins. I'm sure it is still the best fork available for a 24" bike?


I don't recall that the fork is super light. And there really isn't much in terms of steerer tube weight to save, as it's already surprisingly pretty minimal from the factory - maybe one washer under the stem?

I'll see if I get a chance to weigh it tonight. It's nothing I plan to mess with really (I imagine it gets smoother as it breaks in - ours was pretty "sluggish" at first) since I'm not sure there's a better option (other than running a 63mm SID or something with a disc front wheel).


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

RST first air 24 is about 1620g - not really light for a 60mm travel fork but lighter than the rest and works better


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

traffic002 said:


> What chainring size does the crankset come with? Are you leaving the same cogset for the rear? What crank arm length? Where did you order the crankset


The cranks are from bikesmithdesign.com

The bike comes with 152mm? cranks with 24x34x42 rings. The ones shown are 135mm, I erred on the short side (my daughter is about 4'8" tall at 9 yrs old).

Tons of options for rings etc. it's pretty much free to get the steel rings from him, and I grabbed a lightly used 32t n/w for $20 off eBay.


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

23.5 lbs as photo'd (26.8? lbs when I brought it home)










135mm (104 bcd) cranks









Gosh, this old handlebar from the bin sure does match pretty well:


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Very nice!


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

fatchanceti said:


> I haven't weighed the fork.
> 
> The rear uses a heavy thread on freewheel. That's the boat anchor part. Really need to get to a cassette hub to save any weight back there.


In addition to weight loss from using a lighter cassette hub, there is really no need for 32 spokes on a kids 24" wheel. Re-lacing with just 16 spokes is still plenty strong and saves close to 130gr per wheel. see thread;
http://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...-wheel-build-40lb-rider-need-help-891768.html


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## Notaskitrail (Apr 29, 2012)

I have another post about my daughters Race 24. 
http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/2015-cannondale-race-24-a-944354.html

This is a great bike, stock. My med weighed 26 lbs. I have changed the handlebars to Chinese carbon bars off ebay for $20, switched the grip shifts for thumb shift, new grips, handlebar waterbottle. I didn't weigh before and after but can tell the bars,shifters, and grips lighten up the front end. Tires are my next change but want to get some use out of the stock tires first.

She has been riding this since last April and she loves it. Luckily we have great paths to ride and a safe 1.5 mile bike ride to/from school. Here is two shots showing the new bars, grips, and shifters.

http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/2015-cannondale-race-24-a-944354.html


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

In case this helps .... just a further summary on components


fatchanceti said:


> 26.8 lbs as delivered (reflectors, etc) - All Weights from My Feedback Scale (10g resolution)


[/quote]
I'm using the kitchen scale here so more accurate so long as it's small...



> Front wheel (no skewer, but rim strip) - 840g
> Rear Wheel (and freewheel) - 1400g (yikes)
> Front Skewer - 60g
> Rear Skewer - 60g
> ...


Those tyres really are pants for any offroad use.... 
Ordered some tyres ... not what I really wanted but based on availability/price and delivery date ...


> ]
> Stock Plastic Pedals are 330 grams
> Left Crankarm is 250 grams
> Right Crankarm with the stock steel rings is 700 grams
> ...


The BB is square taper "English" thread. (i.e. 1 left hand thread)
I should have photographed it but ... 
I did weight it and it came in at 340g ... which isn't super-light but you might go to a lot of trouble to find a lighter one that fits and saves 40g....

I think it had measurements of 63/110 ??? (If anyone knows or that doesn't sound right please post - it will save me taking it out again) 
The reason I pulled the BB is .....at least here in Europe the S600's seem to be 90% powerspline not square taper and the S600's seem to be the crank of choice for shortening.

I'd thought I'd buy a used one on eBay and have a go myself taking the risk of getting the hole straight without a press drill. My reasoning being I can do one now and one later when he grows ... (the frame (M) is really too large but I'm not ploughing more money into his 20"er) ... and with the saddle alll the way down its just OK... 


> Stem (a 160 gram unit)
> Handlebar (a 140 g Easton Carbon Monkey Light Riser)


I'm swapping out and have sourced a bar .... the stem I'm looking to go as short as possible ... like a 40mm.



> Down to just a hair over 24 lbs now. Still have to pull the front derailleur and cabling off (1x7 is plenty for her to keep track of and use)


As a temporary measure I fitted the cranks off his 20" er ... 
I order a cheap (GBP 40) 24" disc compatible wheel .....

Tru-build Wheels 24 x 1.75" Junior rear disc wheel q/r cassette at Raleigh

You know it can't be good when they don't list the weight but .... at least it will let me replace the drive train and if it works out it has mounts for discs...

As opposed to the S600 in sq taper 10 speed stuff is flooding ebay as people upgrade to 11 sp..... and the price difference is quite small so I managed to get a XT Cassette (11-34) Rear Mech and Rapidfire Shifter pretty cheap.... and also sticking a 40T expander on the back ... and a 30T narrow/wide on the front.

Ive got a KMC 10 sp SL in the spares bin ... so Ill rip off the whole drive train and see what weight that saves.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

Steve-
the BB is likely for a 68mm width frame shell (not 63) and the length of the spindle is 110mm. Reasonably good/cheap upgrade is to get a UN71 BB (around $25) that has a hollow spindle and is almost 100gr lighter. Alternately, spend 4x as much $ on a titanium BB to save another 100gr.

I have shortened several crank sets. In order to use a drill press, you need to fabricate a fairly sturdy and sophisticated alignment jig. I tried using a improvised jig with a drill press but it was not strait and sturdy enough to keep the hole in alignment. The pair that I later did just using a hand-held drill came out better than the set that I did with a drill press. Writeup of my handheld drill shortening is toward bottom of thread; http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/sx-26-trek-4500-kid-build-961774.html

Your new rear wheel is 36 spokes, these work well for re-building as a lighter 18 spoke wheel, saves around 100gr weight and is plenty strong for kid use, see link in post #117 above.



Steve-XtC said:


> In case this helps .... just a further summary on components
> 
> The BB is square taper "English" thread. (i.e. 1 left hand thread)
> I should have photographed it but ...
> ...


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

BB will be 68x113 Steve and 18 spokes is just stupid


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

GrayJay said:


> Steve-
> I have shortened several crank sets. In order to use a drill press, you need to fabricate a fairly sturdy and sophisticated alignment jig. I tried using a improvised jig with a drill press but it was not strait and sturdy enough to keep the hole in alignment. The pair that I later did just using a hand-held drill came out better than the set that I did with a drill press. Writeup of my handheld drill shortening is toward bottom of thread; http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/sx-26-trek-4500-kid-build-961774.html


Thanks, that might be really useful. 
As it turns out the "local" crank shorteners can do it in a few days if I can post it today. (Which means it needs to arrive today)

I'll probably just use them instead of buying the taps if it works out.


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Spectra cranks off ebay are 150mm and come it at 580 grams with chainring. $42 delivered.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

GrayJay said:


> Steve-
> 
> I have shortened several crank sets. In order to use a drill press, you need to fabricate a fairly sturdy and sophisticated alignment jig. I tried using a improvised jig with a drill press but it was not strait and sturdy enough to keep the hole in alignment. The pair that I later did just using a hand-held drill came out better than the set that I did with a drill press. Writeup of my handheld drill shortening is toward bottom of thread; http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/sx-26-trek-4500-kid-build-961774.html


OK, quick shot then ... possibly not my finest engineering moment but I'm sure it will do the job.

















SunTour was 985g
SRAM-Shoertened with 30T = 558g


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

*Update now 1x10 XT*

Finished the cranks and now added the narrow wide 30T and XT 12-36 with XT shifters and XT M780 shadow + rear mech and *my* replacement chain (bought in sales) a KMX X10-SL


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Now with STX disc goodness on the rear.... (leaving front as V brakes until I both have a new wheel and he learns to modulate the rear hydraulic 
brakes....)

So taking the 28.8lbs that's 12.1 kg and the fleabay chinese luggage scales say 11.1 Kg (So I lost about 1kg or 2.2 lbs)

With:
Chainwheel/Cranks I lost 427g 
Tyres are both RRons but with original tubes
Rear wheel and Hub I need to weigh but I put on a fairly rubbish rear wheel as it was all I could get with disc mounts, QR and cassette .... I didnt compare without cassette ... so tios a bit of a black hole... XT11-36 cassette obviously weight muchless than freewheel but probably added weight on rims, spokes and "hub" (excluding freewheel bit) 

For the sake of guestimate I'll call it evens on the rear wheel....

Still got the original bars, seatpost, stem and BB 
Lost the gripshift and front and rear mech and replaced by 1x10 XT
Removed front brake and replaced with STX disk.... (probably a tad heavier)

Overall though down 1kg with scope to go sub 10 with a few basic changes and perhaps another 1kg on the wheels ???

So fleabay provided a front disc wheel for £10 (and £8 post)
and on the two trips he's mastered (or certainly got the hang of) modulation on the back disc... so its time to try a front disk....

meanwhile an unfortunate crash hit the XT shifter window onto a tree root (or it might have been his head but anyway)

I picked up a bargain XT M780 ... which I then paid £20 for the ISPEC conversion to rip off the indicator window and mount to the brake lever. 

This leaves me potentially 2 Z1000 rims I can rip apart .... both 32H

Question now is.... do I use them and pay for good hubs ... ?


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

POAH said:


> BB will be 68x113 Steve and 18 spokes is just stupid


All bets are off ... 68x122 (as labelled and measured)


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Steve-XtC said:


> All bets are off ... 68x122 (as labelled and measured)


for the S600? its a low profile crank so should take a 113mm width for a 48.5mm chainline or 118mm for 51mm chainline. 122mm is for bulky cranks that are normally on cheaper end of the market bikes and would give a 53mm chainline with an S600 crank.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

POAH said:


> for the S600? its a low profile crank so should take a 113mm width for a 48.5mm chainline or 118mm for 51mm chainline. 122mm is for bulky cranks that are normally on cheaper end of the market bikes and would give a 53mm chainline with an S600 crank.


It's what was in...
So a UN55 113/118 would be better ?
Any simple way to tell?


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

113 would be better much better


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

I took the bike into the local Evans (not sure if that qualifies as LBS) but I know the guys a little and they were keen to see the bike. (I'd asked if they could source any 24" wheels amongst other things)

So we tried a 118 (they had a 113 as well) and the 118 fitted very well, the chain was just pulling out a little in 10th but we couldn't have got the extra 5mm off for the 113 without the chain line going off.

They were kind enough to fit free of charge which was a nice gesture except I didn't weigh the replacement and I was planning on taking the cranks off next weekend anyway as I have to transport both bikes to Sherwood for a weeks holiday and I have no rack so its back seat time. (Not a problem just the bikes but I need to take some other stuff for a weeks self catering)


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

the chainline will be further out with a 118 so the chain will be more stressed in the larger cogs. Measure the actual chainline from the centre of the BB to the chain.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

POAH said:


> the chainline will be further out with a 118 so the chain will be more stressed in the larger cogs. Measure the actual chainline from the centre of the BB to the chain.


The 118 looks OK ....

I'm really thinking I'll stop tinkering on the drivetrain for now and perhaps revisit it later in terms of a whole rethink that includes an intrinsically lighter BB. I have access to a full workshop with CNC setup with plasma and water cutters (if I have the time and it's 300 miles away) and the SRAM S600 itself is *hugely* over-engineered for a 25kg rider... as is a square taper BB... I'm thinking of the 900g on BB/Cranks I could save 450g...


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Added carbon bars, Hussle stem, Ti seatpost and new pedals, changed BB

Weight *without wheels* is now 6.8kg (15.1 lbs)
Adding 300g for the discs it's 7.1 kg (15.8 lbs)

By way of comparison the Titanium Trailcraft weights 19.36lbs () with Ti forks
The forks weigh 660g and the RST's weigh 1690g so presumably the trailcraft with RST's weighs 9759g with wheels

The trailcraft wheels weigh 1500g with rim tape and adding 2x440g for the Rocket Rons and that makes the frame + unknown tubes + air in the tubes 7149g (15.87 lbs)

I'm sure Trailcraft err on the side of caution on their wheel weights and tyres so my guess is the Cannondale isn't quite as light but not far off once upgraded.


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## go_ride_your_bike (Jul 11, 2015)

Just picked up a new one for my daughter from REI on sale for $399... Excited to begin taking it apart..  Glad to see this thread!


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## Chad_M (Jul 11, 2013)

go_ride_your_bike said:


> Just picked up a new one for my daughter from REI on sale for $399... Excited to begin taking it apart..  Glad to see this thread!


The rei deal was great. If I lived closer to an "authorized canondale rei" I would have bought one.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

go_ride_your_bike said:


> Just picked up a new one for my daughter from REI on sale for $399... Excited to begin taking it apart..  Glad to see this thread!


Depending just how mad you want to get ..... and with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight....

Saddle, bars, stem and saddle and pedals are the easiest 1lb or so and less dependencies.... The carbon bar cost £7 (delivered), Stem about £5, Saddle £10 (from £15) and Seatpost is used Ti from eBay... (£20)

Then if you want *1x10 or 1x11* you need to think about either rear hub or wheel .... and whilst doing this consider if you want disc brakes or not! Whilst deciding that consider the cranks.
I was surprised how easy shortening the SRAM S600 was... and how much weight it saves with a alloy narrow wide fitted... 
We are currently running 1x10 with 30T front and 40T rear using extender on a 12-36 with the 12 removed... 
*Retrospectively ... I'd Go M8000 now! The thumbshift gets a bit harder to press with the 40T installed and clutch on... but I got ISPEC-B so its stopping for now!
*

*Retrospectively (again) *I underestimated the rarity of good 24" wheels ... (hugely) ... especially with discs.... someone was selling a pair I should have snapped up instead of pontificating!

I'm now waiting delivery of some Stans Crest and have some Novatech D771/D772's sat in front of me and some Sapim CX-Rays on order (they also turned out to be a pain....but that's a different story down to a supplier that seems incapable of accurate communication - they were on sale at 99p each but they only had 16 + 7 in stock so I ended up ordering the other 1 + 8 at fullish price and the 9 cost more than the rest)

Had I thought it through I'd have either gone with a 28H or 36H laced as 18...?

I pulled apart a Z1000 wheel on the Cannondale and weighed one ... they aren't that heavy... (420g) and the hub wasn't that heavy either ..... so it would be an option (if you didn't want disc brakes all round) to just rebuild the rear wheel on a cassette hub ... a bitt of searching might find one to reuse the spokes...

My decision to go for discs was due to specific local conditions. If we lived somewhere drier and with different mud ... I'd probably not bother I just got annoyed constantly truing the wheel to avoid rubbing of mud (with the brakes levers adjusted in)....

The fork is *really good*.... but be sure to let out most of the air... depending on DD's weight. My less than scientific method was him slamming the front brake on and doing an endo and adjusting until it looked about right..... When I ride the bike (yep now tried) I have to lock the forks! (Rode it down a jump ramp in a bike park last week when he changed his mind at the top - I'd put more pressure in as the previous day we'd been riding rocks on a natural trail)

HAVE FUN


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## go_ride_your_bike (Jul 11, 2015)

Thanks for all the info! I still have not decided on a plan of attack, but I do know that a rear wheel rebuild is in order. Also I want to dump the heavy looking triple... For her 20" scott contessa I built up a rear wheel with an xt disc hub on a Sun CR18 rim laced 16 of 32 H... For the front I have an old LX crank that I shortened, and I run two single speed rings on it with no front derailleur. I just manually shift by hand if we are riding on road or on trails...

So the plan is to start by seeing what I can migrate from the Scott, since I have a full set of 9 speed components. My daughter is only 6 (but tall) and is just now starting to look too big for the 20" so I have some time.. 

The fork was what really attracted me to this bike. I spent a lot of time last year obtaining and modifying a spinner air fork for the 20" so it was a no brainer when I saw what came stock on the Cannondale. 

Thanks again for all the info!


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

go_ride_your_bike said:


> Thanks for all the info! I still have not decided on a plan of attack, but I do know that a rear wheel rebuild is in order. Also I want to dump the heavy looking triple... For her 20" scott contessa I built up a rear wheel with an xt disc hub on a Sun CR18 rim laced 16 of 32 H... For the front I have an old LX crank that I shortened, and I run two single speed rings on it with no front derailleur. I just manually shift by hand if we are riding on road or on trails...
> 
> So the plan is to start by seeing what I can migrate from the Scott, since I have a full set of 9 speed components. My daughter is only 6 (but tall) and is just now starting to look too big for the 20" so I have some time..
> 
> ...


The triple weighs nearly 1kg (about 2lbs) 
What I did initially was actually just used the cranks (and saddle/seatpost) from his 20"... whilst I shortened the SRAM .... and fitted a single 30T up front.... (Its only 10 mins to swap them to and fro)

30/36 (on the 10 speed) was pretty good and I only added the 40T because we were going on a specific trip!
This also demonstrates the fork! (the 40T was for the opposite direction of course)

The fork exceeds my expectations! It suffers a little from sticktion with his weight but not overly .... and if you scale things it subjectively seems as good or better than my Fox Factory 100mm XC forks.









If you can switch chain-rings on the cranks and are rebuilding the rear wheel I'd probably go M8000 if I did it again! (Strom's pointed this out and I agree)


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