# Chris King...This sucks



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Check out this post by another member

*rizla * 
mtbr member

Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 34 BOYCOTT CHRIS KING FOR POOR PRICING POLICY!! (x post)

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I have had a set of king hubs (and wheelset) on order from Larry @ mtn high for over a month. The order was placed well before their advertised price increases which were due on the 1st of Feb. Larry has been charged the higher price on hubs going all the way back to november (ie charged the higher price for backorders - orders made well before 1 feb). They also wouldn't do the old pricing when he called to order on 31 January. They are also threatening to drop dealers who don't honour their new pricing, no matter how long time or reputable those dealers might be.

I have emailed King to voice my complaints. It means a hubset for me will go up by about $120 or so. I won't be buying the king hubs unless they honour the old price. I sold my old wheelset already and am without a ride thanks to this situation.

If anyone is having any difficulties or experieneces with the changeover in pricing can you PLEASE email King and voice your complaint to them. The more people who complain should hopefully mean they will do something about it.


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## Ace_Jellyfish (Dec 12, 2004)

that does suck


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

There is a lot of fuss going on about it.

From a contractual standpoint, assuming there is no clause in the purchase order to the contrary, the hubs which were ordered prior to the planned price increase should be honored at that lower price. If a quote was provided for and accepted with a receipt of payment, Kings refusal to allow the original quoted price would give rise to a breach in my opinion. 

I suspect there is fine print involved here.


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

Rereading your post I have two questions:

Has this issue only happened to Larry or more dealers? If only to him, it could be just a clear mistake which should be able to be easily cleared up. It seems unequivocally fair for him to pay the lower price for items ordered months before the new pricing schedule was introduced.

As for Kings threats to drop resellers who does not follow there pricing schedule - thats nothing strange or uncommon. I can think of many many biking and other industries where such policies apply.


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## MTBSully (Sep 18, 2004)

that sux... those things are expensive enough as it is


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## Tarpon (Jan 16, 2004)

*The move to Portland my kill them*

You have to wonder if they boosted prices to pay for the move to Portland. King used to be expensive but now they are hyper expensive. Some of the price increases are over 100%. I like their stuff (except they suck at releasing new products) but will no longer consider buying from them (although I will keep the CK hubs I have in service until parts get too expensive).


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## M1_joel (Mar 9, 2004)

just buy Hadley.


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## sriracha (Jun 23, 2004)

M1_joel said:


> just buy Hadley.


or dt swiss hugi fr 100% swiss made


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## catnash (Jan 14, 2004)

*Price*

off on a bit of a tangent, I have bough a air of Crossmax XL wheels for the price of a king rear hub in the uk. frightening.


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## rpet (Jan 27, 2004)

My wheelbuild is also being held up for the same reason, though I ordered recently. 

-robinny


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

M1_joel said:


> just buy Hadley.


love hadleys


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

rpet said:


> My wheelbuild is also being held up for the same reason, though I ordered recently.
> 
> -robinny


get some hadleys


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

apparently w/Chris King this is a normal thing. Every year they raise their price. People order products but they backorder them then they release them when the price is higher. 

LBS which are under contract pay the day the item ships cost, not the day of order. This policy sucks and Chris King should be ashamed of theirselves


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> LBS which are under contract pay the day the item ships cost, not the day of order. This policy sucks and Chris King should be ashamed of theirselves


 especially if your putting a deposit down, whick alot of LBS will ask for when ordering such items that they dont normally hold in stock.

i really dont see the logic in paying that much; only so many people can afford Ferraries, and it seems like its just getting exclusive for exclusive sake. Prices go up, but their volume goes down...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

zedro said:


> especially if your putting a deposit down, whick alot of LBS will ask for when ordering such items that they dont normally hold in stock.
> 
> i really dont see the logic in paying that much; only so many people can afford Ferraries, and it seems like its just getting exclusive for exclusive sake. Prices go up, but their volume goes down...


yeah I agree Z...Chris king headset 110 bucks...FSA pig 25 bucks

I went the Hadley route with hubs and have never looked back. I like having my bike upside down and spin the wheel softly...it slows down and then starts spinning the opposite direction...very smooth bearings


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## Shibby (Jan 13, 2004)

Are you joking? I mean seriously, you place an order with them, they subsequently jack up the price, then charge you the new price? This doesn't even sound legal...if it is, then it's a mighty shady business practice. Who else does this?

Oh well, just another good reason to stick with the Pig headset.



SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> apparently w/Chris King this is a normal thing. Every year they raise their price. People order products but they backorder them then they release them when the price is higher.
> 
> LBS which are under contract pay the day the item ships cost, not the day of order. This policy sucks and Chris King should be ashamed of theirselves


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## rpet (Jan 27, 2004)

no thanks.



SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> get some hadleys


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

For sale - 1 slightly used black CK ISO rear hub...........


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## TJ. (Jan 12, 2004)

*DT Swiss is the way to go.*

I can only say positive things about DT. When I had a problem with my Hugi FR rear hub. I took it down to the DT Swiss Factory Service Center here in Grand Junction and they built me a new wheel on the spot. The engagement mechanism (ring drive)on a DT swiss is better than any pawl based system. The difference between CK and DT is the engagement speed. CK engages a little quicker. But DT lasts longer, and requires less maintenance. And yes I do own both brands and abuse them on a regular basis.

TJ


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## TJ. (Jan 12, 2004)

*It shows you how friendly Oregon is to business.*



Tarpon said:


> You have to wonder if they boosted prices to pay for the move to Portland. King used to be expensive but now they are hyper expensive. Some of the price increases are over 100%. I like their stuff (except they suck at releasing new products) but will no longer consider buying from them (although I will keep the CK hubs I have in service until parts get too expensive).


Sucks to own property or work in Oregon. No sales tax keeps the govt greedy. It's a good place to buy a bike, car, boat, dirtbike, dishwasher, etc. Beautiful state. Shiiity economics.

TJ


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## downhillcrazy (Nov 24, 2004)

One word “boycott”


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

AZ SS FREAK said:


> A single cog (stainless steel) from king went up by 68% on this last round of increases, from $25 to $42. Ridiculous. I'll be buying a different brand from now on.


I have to admit I am a massive Chris King Fan - Biased even perhaps, but these price increases are very questionable. An increase like that is silly considering I could probably buy a cassette for not much more. $150 additional for hubs is also silly. They were costly and WORTH IT but now they are OVER PRICED, even if they are ever lasting hubs!


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

Haha...I think this is funny as He11. Gotta pay a little extra for your Bling-bling. What happen to everyone screaming about how great Kings sh!t is??? What's a couple of extra bucks for the superior ride quality of King products. 


This is exactly why I've never bought any of his crap. Although it maybe sweet crap, my $25 Pig headssets have been working great for years, same with my XT disc hubs. I never saw the point in spending $$$ on a headset, when I get the same performance out of a $ one.


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## SMOKEY (May 19, 2004)

Chris king can suck my left nut.
I don't care how many pretty colors he comes up with or how long his head sets last, he ain't getting none of my money. Pffffff!


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

red5 said:


> Haha...I think this is funny as He11. Gotta pay a little extra for your Bling-bling. What happen to everyone screaming about how great Kings sh!t is??? What's a couple of extra bucks for the superior ride quality of King products.
> 
> This is exactly why I've never bought any of his crap. Although it maybe sweet crap, my $25 Pig headssets have been working great for years, same with my XT disc hubs. I never saw the point in spending $$$ on a headset, when I get the same performance out of a $ one.


Your missing the point.

King products are not crap, sh!t or rubbish. The issue here is that the pricing has got a little out of hand. They are still perfection when it comes to hubs and headsets and there is no denying this. What is a problem is the price increases.

I'll still rave about king products but I'll just add a caution about the pricing being a little rich (No pun intended) for some.

Over priced but yeah, I'd probably be a sucker and buy another set.


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

SMOKEY said:


> Chris king can suck my left nut.
> I don't care how many pretty colors he comes up with or how long his head sets last, he ain't getting none of my money. Pffffff!


People seem to be taking this thread very personal.

Thats bizarre.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

Trevor! said:


> People seem to be taking this thread very personal.
> 
> Thats bizarre.


 _*LET'S BURN THE PLANET DOWN IN PROTEST!!!!!!*_


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

zedro said:


> _*LET'S BURN THE PLANET DOWN IN PROTEST!!!!!!*_


 Crazy Canadians....Blame Canada


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

Trevor! said:


> Your missing the point.
> 
> King products are not crap, sh!t or rubbish. The issue here is that the pricing has got a little out of hand. They are still perfection when it comes to hubs and headsets and there is no denying this. What is a problem is the price increases.
> 
> ...


 No I think you misunderstood, I was being sarcastic. And his pricing has always been out of hand, I mean really a headset for $110.00, pleez. Look I've had a King headset, I did not purchase it myself it came on the frame I bought, and I did not notice any life altering magical superiority when compared to my PIG. It's a headset people, it's function is make your steering smooth which can be done for allot less than $100.00. King products and their users are all about the name and bling factor. It's all about people having way more money and not enough intelligence or smarts to know when your being duped. However, now that King has raised his prices maybe some of you will see.

Honestly if you ask me anyone who uses King products probably didn't get held enough as a child by his/her parents and was always picked last for gym class. So now in your adult years you try to gain acceptance by spending mucho $$$ on bikes and parts so people will like you. These are the same people that own Hummers, sit in tanning salons and get tons of plastic surgery when life starts to catch up to them. Very sad.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

red5 said:


> No I think you misunderstood, I was being sarcastic. And his pricing has always been out of hand, I mean really a headset for $110.00, pleez. Look I've had a King headset, I did not purchase it myself it came on the frame I bought, and I did not notice any life altering magical superiority when compared to my PIG. It's a headset people, it's function is make your steering smooth which can be done for allot less than $100.00. King products and their users are all about the name and bling factor. It's all about people having way more money and not enough intelligence or smarts to know when your being duped. However, now that King has raised his prices maybe some of you will see.
> 
> Honestly if you ask me anyone who uses King products probably didn't get held enough as a child by his/her parents and was always picked last for gym class. So now in your adult years you try to gain acceptance by spending mucho $$$ on bikes and parts so people will like you. These are the same people that own Hummers, sit in tanning salons and get tons of plastic surgery when life starts to catch up to them. Very sad.


YEAH...what he said


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

red5 said:


> It's a headset people, it's function is make your steering smooth which can be done for allot less than $100.00. King products and their users are all about the name and bling factor.


 the thing is, CK uses a level precision that costs alot more to produce, but at the same time is totally unecessary. Same with their hubs, they are over-engineered for what is really required. Like i had an argument the other day with a guy who said a proper hub needs angular bearings like CK uses (which CK produces themselves hence the $$$). Well the reality which he ignored is you dont actually need that, and also requires more attention to proper adjustment as a consequence. Their headsets use very precise bearings, but consequently you need a perfectly reamed and faced headtube or else they'll just keep comming loose. Its simply more than most people need. So ya, bling (uhg) factor


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

red5 said:


> blah blah blah, nothing useful to see here folks


Oh please. You sit up there looking down on everyone like you are so very superior. List out a complete parts spec of your bike and I will list off all the appropriate, lower cost substitutes that would serve you just as well.

Sometimes, it's not about making something noticably better. Sometimes, you pay for quality. Sometimes, you pay for weight savings. Sometimes you just pay for a company who manufactures everything in the USA and has great environmental practices to boot.

You're so quick to judge, when in reality, you're on this website and are discussing the meaningless "geek points" of biking just like the rest of us. In reality, a Weyless 67 from Supergo paired with a Fox Vanilla R, and a Deore drivetrain would serve you just as well as your current ride, no Horst links or SPV shocks or fancy parts necessary. In reality, you're just as inclined to argue why a (suspension type) is better than (some other suspension type), when it _doesn't freakin' matter_.

None of this matters. Only getting out and riding matters. That doesn't mean we shouldn't spend money on expensive parts, or discuss the finer points of suspension technology - hell, I've got over 6500 posts on Ridemonkey and ride an Imperial with Thomson stem & seatpost. The difference is that I'm not deluded into thinking that what I spent money on was worth it, but that simply because I didn't drop the cash on a King headset, it makes anyone who did a loser who wasn't held enough as a child .


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## dante (Jan 12, 2004)

its simple, some people buy it b/c its the best, regardless of how much it costs. that's the reason there are $800 Campy Carbon Record cranksets out there that are square tapered, and are heavier and not even as stiff as a normal ISIS or 2-piece crankset. People pay extra for the RECORD name displayed on the crankset, just like people will still pay $$$$ for something that says Chris King on it. Going by simple economics, King is charging more b/c they can charge more. If sales drop, prices will drop as well. If sales drop and they can't afford to drop the price, they'll go out of business. Will be interesting to see if people still buy it, I know raw material pricing is going up but still...

<=== Never owned a CK product.


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## jubilee (Apr 16, 2004)

red5 said:


> No I think you misunderstood, I was being sarcastic. And his pricing has always been out of hand, I mean really a headset for $110.00, pleez. Look I've had a King headset, I did not purchase it myself it came on the frame I bought, and I did not notice any life altering magical superiority when compared to my PIG. It's a headset people, it's function is make your steering smooth which can be done for allot less than $100.00. King products and their users are all about the name and bling factor. It's all about people having way more money and not enough intelligence or smarts to know when your being duped. However, now that King has raised his prices maybe some of you will see.
> 
> Honestly if you ask me anyone who uses King products probably didn't get held enough as a child by his/her parents and was always picked last for gym class. So now in your adult years you try to gain acceptance by spending mucho $$$ on bikes and parts so people will like you. These are the same people that own Hummers, sit in tanning salons and get tons of plastic surgery when life starts to catch up to them. Very sad.


FWIW, some folks want to buy "the best". I know "the best" is highly subjective too. I use CK hubs and headsets because they work. And work and work and work. I've had a CK headset for nearly 4.5 years now on 3 different bikes. It's most recently going on a newbie DJ bike I'm building. Also, I do admire CK's business and environmental/recycling practices. If I have the duckets, I'm willing to pay for that vs. paying for a part that in some way increases the USA's trade defecit. I realize it's a drop in the bucket though.

BTW, I despise hummers, think tanning salons are where people pay for skin cancer, and I promise I will never be a contestant on "the Swan". And actually, like I'm slowly discovering, as I age I care less and less what other people think of me, my bike, or anything else. I just have more $$ to buy the chi chi parts that I couldn't afford when I was a kid.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

rizla got the price he wanted from the dealer and has not said anything about it.
Selfish [email protected]@#d!


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

shiggy said:


> rizla got the price he wanted from the dealer and has not said anything about it.
> Selfish [email protected]@#d!


Rizla pipe in...what's the deal???

I talk to CK about this and they said they would take care of it through the LBS....wonder what happen


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## rpet (Jan 27, 2004)

If you are satisfied with a Pig, then clearly the CK is not for you. 

At least compare a sealed bearing headset that weighs about the same as the CK. Otherwise it's apples and oranges, like comparing a Marz AM.1 to a DJ3.

-rob in NY


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

rpet said:


> If you are satisfied with a Pig, then clearly the CK is not for you.
> 
> At least compare a sealed bearing headset that weighs about the same as the CK. Otherwise it's apples and oranges, like comparing a Marz AM.1 to a DJ3.
> 
> -rob in NY


why would you say that...the pig is way smooth.....beg to differ(not flaming)


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## stinky ho (Dec 9, 2004)

I am on the fence with this one. I do believe that you get what you pay for...so it better be worth it and the company had better stand behind it when it doesn't. Someone stated that if you spend that money it's so people will like you...cmon we are talking about bike parts. If I can afford to buy the best and I know it will last then that's what I get...if it's an item that will be damaged easily then I go with the cheaper models (i.e rear deraileurs) since no matter how expensive it will get beat up. The problem here is the policy with the price between CK, the dealer, and the customer...not the quality of the component.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

rpet said:


> If you are satisfied with a Pig, then clearly the CK is not for you.
> 
> At least compare a sealed bearing headset that weighs about the same as the CK. Otherwise it's apples and oranges, like comparing a Marz AM.1 to a DJ3.
> 
> -rob in NY


 FYI, FSA makes a PIG sealed. So who's the idiot now rob? Maybe a little research would do you good next time, before you go spouting off about things you obviously know nothing about.

See kids all about performance, price and quality, not just price. I just think it ignorant to spend more money for something that doesn't perform any better than soemthing that costs less. But hey, I'm not some snobby little rich kid mommas boy who had everything handed to him on a silvert platter, so I guess I understand the value of a dollar.


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## Blue Shorts (Jun 1, 2004)

zedro said:


> especially if your putting a deposit down, whick alot of LBS will ask for when ordering such items that they dont normally hold in stock.
> 
> i really dont see the logic in paying that much; only so many people can afford Ferraries, and it seems like its just getting exclusive for exclusive sake. Prices go up, but their volume goes down...


If you are quoted a price and then put money down, you are legally entitled to that price. The LBS, in this case, get's screwed. If, on the other hand, you get quoted a price, but do not put a deposit on it.....you're sol.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

binary visions said:


> Oh please. You sit up there looking down on everyone like you are so very superior. List out a complete parts spec of your bike and I will list off all the appropriate, lower cost substitutes that would serve you just as well.
> 
> Sometimes, it's not about making something noticably better. Sometimes, you pay for quality. Sometimes, you pay for weight savings. Sometimes you just pay for a company who manufactures everything in the USA and has great environmental practices to boot.
> 
> ...


 Hey bub. Don't get your panties in an uproar, your response is coming. Don't want you to think I left you out of the fun while I repsond to all your elitist little buds. Just wait for it...........


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## rpet (Jan 27, 2004)

ShiverMe - Because the Pig isn't sealed, and it is much heavier than the CK.

That doesn't make it bad, but weight matters to some riders (racers, trail riders). So does not having to regrease or do other bearing maintenance that loose-ball requires (especially if you ride in muddy conditions).

I have a Pig on my street bike - great product. If you aren't going thousands of miles on your bike or are just doing hucks or street riding, and all you care about is cheapness & toughness, the Pig can't be touched.

Now - if Red5 had compared the CK headset to some of the other FSA headsets - the Orbit XLII, etc. that are as light as a King and have sealed bearings that may last as long as a King, then he would have made a better comparison.

That was my point.

-rob


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## rpet (Jan 27, 2004)

You never said Pig Pro. You said Pig. big diff, bearing-wise. the Pig Pro is sealed, but it is still much heavier than the CK, which matters to some people, though maybe not you.

I never called you an idiot, or anything else. 

I work for my money, and pay full price for everything. I often buy used stuff. I have 2 FSA headsets and a King headset right now. I see merits in both.

-rob


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

stinky ho said:


> I am on the fence with this one. I do believe that you get what you pay for...so it better be worth it and the company had better stand behind it when it doesn't. Someone stated that if you spend that money it's so people will like you...cmon we are talking about bike parts. If I can afford to buy the best and I know it will last then that's what I get...if it's an item that will be damaged easily then I go with the cheaper models (i.e rear deraileurs) since no matter how expensive it will get beat up. The problem here is the policy with the price between CK, the dealer, and the customer...not the quality of the component.


 Ok and I agree, you shouold get what you pay for. So please explain to me why when I can buy a FSA Pig headset, that so far has lasted me 8+ years w/ no probs, for 25-40 dollars that I should spend $100+ dollars on a King and get no performance or durablity gain?

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to give you sh!t, but the logic of spending more money for equal performance has obviously somehow escaped me here.


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## stinky ho (Dec 9, 2004)

red5 said:


> Ok and I agree, you shouold get what you pay for. So please explain to me why when I can buy a FSA Pig headset, that so far has lasted me 8+ years w/ no probs, for 25-40 dollars that I should spend $100+ dollars on a King and get no performance or durablity gain?
> 
> Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to give you sh!t, but the logic of spending more money for equal performance has obviously somehow escaped me here.


There is no solid answer to that question as it's going to be a personal preference issue.
A Honda Civic is a very reliable car and inexpensive...yet I will not own or drive one. So I guess the best answer is to buy what works for you.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

rpet said:


> You never said Pig Pro. You said Pig. big diff, bearing-wise. the Pig Pro is sealed, but it is still much heavier than the CK, which matters to some people, though maybe not you.
> 
> I never called you an idiot, or anything else.
> 
> ...


 Pig/Pig DH same thing really. I've used both and I have a reg Pig that I've been using for almost 10 years that has never had any issues whatsoever. Weight? I'm in a DH forum, not Passion. If I want to save weight I can think of areas that will be much more effective than my headset. Same bikes with equal parts build, except the headsets, you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference so mute point.

I felt idiot was implied.

As do I, although not always full retail price. I'm not disputing the quality of Kings products, I just don't get the logic.


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## Tarpon (Jan 16, 2004)

*I doubt it was a well considered business decision...*



TJ. said:


> Sucks to own property or work in Oregon. No sales tax keeps the govt greedy. It's a good place to buy a bike, car, boat, dirtbike, dishwasher, etc. Beautiful state. Shiiity economics.
> 
> TJ


...in the first place.

I was refering mostly to the capital outlay to move the company. Also, they were not at their northern California location very long so the company has had two big relocations in a short period of time. Only a fast growing company can afford to do that, usually because they have to or they can't grow. My guess is it was an ego decision, something pissed of CK and he left.

I don't know too much about Oregon economics. It is still probably cheaper to do business there than in California though.


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

red5 said:


> Hey bub. Don't get your panties in an uproar, your response is coming. Don't want you to think I left you out of the fun while I repsond to all your elitist little buds. Just wait for it...........


 Oh, I'm practically quivering in anticipation. I've been sitting here all afternoon, beside myself that I hadn't had a response yet.

The suspense is just killing me.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

red5 said:


> But hey, I'm not some snobby little rich kid mommas boy who had everything handed to him on a silvert platter, so I guess I understand the value of a dollar.


and I thought you lived in a Mansion....you are now on my ignore list...can't deal with the poor who don't have silver platters


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## mango (Dec 1, 2004)

red5 said:


> Ok and I agree, you shouold get what you pay for. So please explain to me why when I can buy a FSA Pig headset, that so far has lasted me 8+ years w/ no probs, for 25-40 dollars that I should spend $100+ dollars on a King and get no performance or durablity gain?


From some quick "reasearch" on Speedgoat it looks like the FSA Pig Pro weighs about 175g (listed weight) and retails for $50. The King Headset weighs about 120g and retailed for $125.

The "performance" gain is a weight savings of 55g which equates to a cost of $1.25 per gram. For the weight weenie crowd that can be an acceptable price to pay. Also, if you "need" to build a bike under a certain weight or the lightest bike possible the FSA isn't an option.

Being that this post is in the FR/DH forum.... (does weight matter???)


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## rpet (Jan 27, 2004)

I don't know man... DH means Downhill Racing to some people. 
There are racers running XC rims, aluminum nipples and a [email protected] of titanium bits on their DH rigs. Sure, you get rid of the Profiles and the Azonic barcalounger seat first, but there are lots of gram counters in this forum... I don't think it's wrong.

-rob


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

stinky ho said:


> There is no solid answer to that question as it's going to be a personal preference issue.
> A Honda Civic is a very reliable car and inexpensive...yet I will not own or drive one. So I guess the best answer is to buy what works for you.


 Come on now, are you seriously going to use cars as an analogy. How many different things can go wrong with a car vs a headset? Though I do get what your saying and I concur.

But if all you King elitists think it worth the money, why ***** about the price hike? You've all proven that money isn't an issue for a *seeminly superior* product. Seems that not only are King worshippers a bunch of elitist snoby little mommas boys, but your also a bunch of whiners. Man the hits just keep on coming.


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## rpet (Jan 27, 2004)

FYI: I will whine about other recent prices as well: the price of Marzo Z1s going up like 15% per year, the price of the new Fox 36, the price of XT cassettes and other Shimano parts. 
Hadleys aren't cheap, and they're not much easier to get vs. King either.

It's an expensive sport no matter how you cut it... some riders want a dependable, good-performing bike that will last for 4 years, some riders just want to look cool and have the newest stuff, some of us want the lightest bike, some want the toughest.

I've been on XT hubs for years, but want the King rear due to the engagement point thing primarily. I wanted a matching front hub, but now will probably go with Hope (since they are easier to get than Hadley).

The issue for most of the CK complainers was the retroactive price increase being unfair. If you just want to target expensive stuff, you have a lot of easy pickings in the MTB world.

-robinny


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## Dusty Bottoms (Jan 14, 2004)

There are definitely several ways to agrue the pros and cons of expensive parts. All I know is this....I have blown a King headset and I have blown a King rear hub. I love high end parts as much as anyone but one factor rings in my head these days during purchase time.....ALL BIKE PARTS FAIL. I'm not saying don't buy expensive parts, I'm saying don't buy expensive parts if you're gonna cry when they fail.

There is nothing wrong with buying disposable parts.


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

Where's Pete when you need some more entertainment?


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## SprungShoulders (Jan 12, 2004)

mango said:


> The "performance" gain is a weight savings of 55g which equates to a cost of $1.25 per gram. For the weight weenie crowd that can be an acceptable price to pay.


Take a nice big dump before you hop on your bike and you'll save at least 55g, not to mention the $$$$.  ...Of course, there's not a a lot of bling-factor associated with taking a crap. And, unlike King heasets, it only comes in (usually) one color, unless you've been eating crayons.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

rpet said:


> I don't know man... DH means Downhill Racing to some people.
> There are racers running XC rims, aluminum nipples and a [email protected] of titanium bits on their DH rigs. Sure, you get rid of the Profiles and the Azonic barcalounger seat first, but there are lots of gram counters in this forum... I don't think it's wrong.
> 
> -rob


 WOW, never knew MTBR DH forum drew so many WC racers. You mean to tell me all you guys are Pro Sponsored racers??? Whatever...sounds like you weight-weenie Dh'ers need your own site or at the very least forum. That way you can all sit around compairing bike builds and the latest Ti parts, without having to make all us non gram counters sick with your weight saving BS. 

But seriously, all things considered it's just a headset and a few grams wouldn't make a difference and you know it. You just don't want to face facts and you know what, thats kool with me. Just next time the prices go up on one of boutique brands, how about you guys take it to the weight weenie or passion forums. Because all the b!tching about the prices going up on already overpriced parts just fuels my belief that people are ignorant with money and take it for granted.


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## mango (Dec 1, 2004)

SprungShoulders said:


> Take a nice big dump before you hop on your bike and you'll save at least 55g, not to mention the $$$$.


Ahhh... the dump argument, one of my favorites.


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## mango (Dec 1, 2004)

red5 said:


> But seriously, all things considered it's just a headset and a few grams wouldn't make a difference and you know it. You just don't want to face facts and you know what, thats kool with me. Just next time the prices go up on one of boutique brands, how about you guys take it to the weight weenie or passion forums. Because all the b!tching about the prices going up on already overpriced parts just fuels my belief that people are ignorant with money and take it for granted.


Sure one component doesn't make that much of a difference but add up 55g from 10 things... suddenly you've saved more weight than taking a Taco Bell sized dump.


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## [email protected] (Jan 14, 2004)

red5 said:


> Pig/Pig DH same thing really.


Er, not really at all, actually. Sure they get the same job done, but while a Pinto and a Testarosa will both (probably) get you from your house to 7-11, that doesn't make them identical in a practical sense. I suppose if we're getting into some existential argument about the nature of bicycle parts . . . that would be stupid.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

what a hard thread to read...uhg...


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

zedro said:


> what a hard thread to read...uhg...


What type of tubes should I use with my new bike?


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## the Inbred (Jan 13, 2004)

most expensive tubes you can find. 

why are we stuck on headsets? why not hubs? 'cause then we can evolve into an argument regarding Ring Drive vs pawl/spring...which would at least be more entertaining.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> and I thought you lived in a Mansion....you are now on my ignore list...can't deal with the poor who don't have silver platters


 Cool, now if I could just get the rest of you f*cknuts to ignore me, I could post in peace.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

red5 said:


> WOW, never knew MTBR DH forum drew so many WC racers. You mean to tell me all you guys are Pro Sponsored racers??? Whatever...sounds like you weight-weenie Dh'ers need your own site or at the very least forum. That way you can all sit around compairing bike builds and the latest Ti parts, without having to make all us non gram counters sick with your weight saving BS. .


I am not a pro racer and have no plans to train and be one..unless training includes beer, pizza, beer, hookers and more beer. But I did lighten my bike was some Ti parts and such. I like the feel of my bike the way it is, but I am switching back to the 2.8 Michelin on front from My 2.5 highroller. It will still weigh under 42 with the big tires


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

red5 said:


> Cool, now if I could just get the rest of you f*cknuts to ignore me, I could post in peace.


fock it...I can't do that to you....you know leave you alone and stuff. So I will still pester, torture, nag, bother, annoy, get at your goat, make fun of you, and laugh at you when you are sad...because I am just that way focker


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

red5 said:


> Cool, now if I could just get the rest of you f*cknuts to ignore me, I could post in peace.


 red, I waited all night for a response from you. My girlfriend put on sexy underwear and offered to do things to me that most men only dream of... and I had to tell her I was too distracted. I couldn't even taste my dinner last night. Finally, at about 2:00am I went to bed but my sleep was fitful and punctuated by moments where I woke up and found myself whimpering, "ANSWER ME! Please God, just answer..."

I got up to take a piss at about 4:00 and checked this thread, the last remaining flicker of hope sputtering and dying when I found nothing...

Oh, dear red, please supply me with more of the same argument that you've made over and over and over again here, despite the varied arguments of the others. It would be even better if you could somehow work in the fact that you were hard off as a kid, thus making you better than everyone else, and I'd practically cream myself if you could end it with a self congratulatory comment, such as:



red5 said:


> Man the hits just keep on coming.


Yours in eternal patience,
Me.


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

XT B*tch!

And the same cane creek headset since somewhere around 1998. Take that CK nazis. I did replace the bearings almost two years ago, so my total cost is an astounding $48.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

binary visions said:


> red, I waited all night for a response from you. My girlfriend put on sexy underwear and offered to do things to me that most men only dream of... and I had to tell her I was too distracted. I couldn't even taste my dinner last night. Finally, at about 2:00am I went to bed but my sleep was fitful and punctuated by moments where I woke up and found myself whimpering, "ANSWER ME! Please God, just answer..."
> 
> I got up to take a piss at about 4:00 and checked this thread, the last remaining flicker of hope sputtering and dying when I found nothing...
> 
> ...


 Awwww...that's sweet, it's nice to know you care. But see the thing is, I don't. I was going to go into some long winded explanation about my bike builds and blah-blah-blah, but I'm not. What I will do is tell you that my bike, 03 Big Hit Expert, is still 2 years later pretty much stock and give you a little rundown of what's changed. The only parts that have changed are the fork, headset, pedals and tires. Oh and I've tried several different chainguides (E13, Truvativ, Blackspire) but have yet to find one I like or that fits right, but I have a System 2 on order.

Fork: 03 Monster T - bought brand new for 700.00. Only fork for that price in 03 that had tire clearence for a 2.7 and good damping. So it was a bargain and the Jr.T had to go POS.
Headset - Pig DH Pro
Pedals - Truvativ Hollz - OK this was a splurge, I admit I could have gotten away with my orginal $15 pedals from the LBS. 
Tires - Kenda DH - not exactly considered bling given they're past rep. Heck people still have a hard time accepting they make good tires now. Plus they only cost me $12 a tire.

So now that you have all this valuable info, I guess I'll be the one on the edge of my seat awaiting your insight on how I could have save money. Oh BTW, my complete Big Hit bought brand new in 03, first one sold at Supego in Laguna in 03, cost me $1700.00 out the door. So I already saved 1000.00 right there.  Have fun.


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

Sounds to me like CK sat on a bunch of product until the price increase. They have been backordering hubs for months, and now the price goes wayyyyy up. BAM now hey have hubs  . If you want CK quality,but a little lower price check out Stealth. Former CK employees.My DT FR hubs are awesome too. The engagement is about the same.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

dhtahoe said:


> Sounds to me like CK sat on a bunch of product until the price increase. They have been backordering hubs for months, and now the price goes wayyyyy up.


 or maybe they messed up production or the move had too much downtime and they need a price increase to bail themselves out.


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## frank n. beans (Jan 19, 2004)

*ok then*



red5 said:


> So now in your adult years you try to gain acceptance by spending mucho $$$ on bikes and parts so people will like you.


What exactly is a "G34R SLU7" ?


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## daveIT (Jan 6, 2004)

*I wonder...*

Did this guy attempt to contact CK on his own and express his feelings or did he just decide to come on the forum and scream "boycott"? I don't know what CK's policy is between them and the dealers, and I'm sure this guy doesn't either. That would probably be worth researching before getting all bent out of shape and posting.


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## matt (Feb 2, 2004)

mango said:


> From some quick "reasearch" on Speedgoat it looks like the FSA Pig Pro weighs about 175g (listed weight) and retails for $50. The King Headset weighs about 120g and retailed for $125.
> 
> The "performance" gain is a weight savings of 55g which equates to a cost of $1.25 per gram. For the weight weenie crowd that can be an acceptable price to pay. Also, if you "need" to build a bike under a certain weight or the lightest bike possible the FSA isn't an option.
> 
> Being that this post is in the FR/DH forum.... (does weight matter???)


since the pig is for dh shouldn't we be using the chris king equivalent (steelset)? The MSRP for the CK steelset is $165, the MSRP for the FSA Pig DH Pro is $40. So that's a price difference of $125. That's a huge amount to pay for a questionable increase in performance. The weight of the pig according to Cambria is 176 grams, the Chris King steelset is 210 grams. I think this comparison makes more sense than that of the Pig DH to the CK no threadset (i assume that's what you guys were talking about)

I don't know how you figured out the cost per gram, I think I did it right, but I got $1.36 per gram. So now with the steelset between the pig dh pro, the pig is 34 grams lighter and less money. I don't know, maybe I'm not looking at everything, but the pig seems like a better deal to me.

Also I have heard that the steelsets "save" the headtubes of bikes with slightly ovalized headtubes. I haven't heard that of the pig so that's another thing to take into consideration.


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## matt (Feb 2, 2004)

*Different weights of CK steelset*

Seems there are some different weights of the steelset. Pricepoint says 223 grams, Webcyclery says 223 grams, Jenson says 210 grams. I guess majority rules... just making sure i get it right.


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

red5 said:


> Awwww...that's sweet, it's nice to know you care.


You're either being deliberately dense, or just don't get the simple point I was making. Either way, I'm not rising to the bait.

If you get my point and are simply trolling, that just tells me you have no good response to my argument. If you don't get my point, well, go back and read it again...

I was pretty excited for your response up until this point, but your flaccid argument has left me disappointed...

I think I've used up my sarcasm allotment for the month on this thread


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

binary visions said:


> You're either being deliberately dense, or just don't get the simple point I was making. Either way, I'm not rising to the bait.
> 
> If you get my point and are simply trolling, that just tells me you have no good response to my argument. If you don't get my point, well, go back and read it again...
> 
> ...


 Aw darn and I was looking forward to some helpful info on how to save money on my future bike builds, schucks now what am I going to do. 

But seriously, I got your point, I just thought it would be fun to play along since my bike is almost stock. I still think people waste allot of money, but that's cool it's their money.

My original issue wasn't to bash people for spending excessive money on parts, but instead with the fact that all the people who have been in the past are now b!tching about the fact that they have to spend more. It just seemed odd to me that if the parts are so great adn nothing with regards to the mfg. has changed, who cares keep buying them and quite whining.

Whatever, I agree with you when it comes down to it it's just all about riding and as soon as the floods here in So.Cal stop maybe I will get a chance. Anyhoo, it's been fun playing, hope we can do it again soon. Have a nice day.


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

red5 said:


> Anyhoo, it's been fun playing, hope we can do it again soon. Have a nice day.


Well, even if I disagree with a lot of what you say, at least I always appreciate the fact that you don't take all this crap posted on the IntArweb all that seriously 

You should see this lunatic ranting on Ridemonkey right now... Talk about someone who takes the internet too seriously!


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

binary visions said:


> You should see this lunatic ranting on Ridemonkey right now... Talk about someone who takes the internet too seriously!


 you know, i literally had to put the two of them on my ignore list, i seriously couldnt read it anymore it's so absurd...


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

binary visions said:


> Well, even if I disagree with a lot of what you say, at least I always appreciate the fact that you don't take all this crap posted on the IntArweb all that seriously
> 
> You should see this lunatic ranting on Ridemonkey right now... Talk about someone who takes the internet too seriously!


 Yeah it's taken me a while to figure out the whole forum deal, but my beating in "FSR/Flaoting brake" post taught me a valuable lesson. I'm trying..baby steps.


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## rpet (Jan 27, 2004)

Nah - I'd compare the Steelset to the FSA Orbit Extreme Pro Stainless. Dual steel cups. The regular Pig and sealed Pig have aluminum top cups and are not a deep-insert headset.

I'd put the Steelset, Orbit Extreme Deep and Stainless in the Extreme Hucking or "already ovalized my headtube" category.

I think James and other people would vouch for a plain aluminum CK Nothreadset holding up to general DH racing use. 



-robinny


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

frank n. beans said:


> What exactly is a "G34R SLU7" ?


 Your kidding right???  Nobody can be that.....well you know. 

It was a term given to me by another person. Though I'm not into bling on my bikes, I do like my components to match. For example, I have Truvativ cranks so therefore I use their stems and Hbars. Same goes with tires, i don't mix and match.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

rpet said:


> Nah - I'd compare the Steelset to the FSA Orbit Extreme Pro Stainless. Dual steel cups. The regular Pig and sealed Pig have aluminum top cups and are not a deep-insert headset.
> 
> I'd put the Steelset, Orbit Extreme Deep and Stainless in the Extreme Hucking or "already ovalized my headtube" category.
> 
> ...


 FYI, not getting into a pissing contest, but just thought I point out the Orbit Extreme Deep Cup has Forged and CNC machined 7075/T6 aluminum cups and only weighs 125gr according to FSA site.

Also the *FSA Pig DH Pro Deep Cup* weighs 180gr and has cart bearing. So IMO, it's still the better buy.


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## frank n. beans (Jan 19, 2004)

red5 said:


> Your kidding right???  Nobody can be that.....well you know.
> 
> It was a term given to me by another person. Though I'm not into bling on my bikes, I do like my components to match. For example, I have Truvativ cranks so therefore I use their stems and Hbars. Same goes with tires, i don't mix and match.


It is kind of ambiguous. My initial thoughts on the term was that it was more on the "excessive bling" side of the spectrum than purely fashion. Thanks for the clarification.


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