# riding with high cortisol



## deerkiller (Aug 5, 2015)

about a year ago, my body went into full panic mode, fight or flight 24/7. I began to not be able to sleep, and any exertion results in heart palpitations and not sleeping for 2-3 days. 

The best i can do is walk, and not too fast at that.

My diet is pretty good, gluten free, no soda, little to no sugar, no fast food, etc. 

My MD can't find anything wrong with me, after a battery of tests, just wanted to put me on a sleeping pill.

I went to naturopath, he found my adrenals to be blown up, basically stuck in the "on" position all the time. He's given me some things to help, but basically, after nearly a year, i'm still struggling.

I probably could have seen the signs if i knew what was coming. I would ride several times weekly, no matter how tired i was after work. On nights i wasn't riding, I would hammer out tons of pushups and chin-ups. I was tired all the time, but made myself do it. I think i was stressed at work, and my post work rides and weekend hammer sessions put the nail in the coffin. My body wasn't recovering. 

I'm not sure how to get back on track. Has anyone been through this, fully recovered, and have advice? 

I'm all ears.


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## pedromj (Aug 23, 2019)

I experienced the same "adrenal fatigue", although not so deep. The key to recover is not to stop riding or exercising, but ensure to switch off your body after every workout. I used to switch off even on red lights. For me, to switch off, I need to close my eyes, take a deep breath, relax face muscles a bit, and do some very short inspirations followed by very long expirations. This is easy and, as I said, it can be done even in red lights. It is very important for me. The days I forgot or was not able to do it, even riding early in the morning, I experienced a tense day that ended in bad sleep and poor recovery.

Sent from my SO-05K using Tapatalk


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

deerkiller said:


> about a year ago, my body went into full panic mode, fight or flight 24/7. I began to not be able to sleep, and any exertion results in heart palpitations and not sleeping for 2-3 days.
> 
> The best i can do is walk, and not too fast at that.
> 
> ...


You are a parasympathetic dominant. Which means that if you exercise or participate in sports, your sympathetic (cortisol) system has to compensate more than the average person. That compensation can be enlarged adrenal glands.

Take as much vitamin C as you can before you get the runs, then back off that dose by about 1/3. Take some flaxseed for fish oil. Practice some deep breathing and/or meditation. If those things still don't help, you may need to try an antidepressant. Don't be afraid of them. If your doctor said nothing is wrong, what they are really trying to say is that you have mild to moderate depression, and it's not reaching the level of major depression, where by law they have to prescribe something. They also are often not allowed to diagnose something relatively minor, which means they are caught between a rock and a hard place ethically and legally, so they just play it safe and say you are fine. Depression is not just sitting around feeling sorry for yourself. Some of the most successful people in history have had it. It's not what you think it is. In fact they should not really even call it depression. Depression is actually anxiety; only atypical depression is really depression. Confused yet?

We all have genetic issues, every single person ever born has had some type of genetic issue somewhere in them, statistically between one to eight out of their 34,000 or so genes are defective. If someone is schizophrenic or retarded that number of course goes way up.

If you can't handle stress and still exercise and eat well, then it's not you, it's your body. It's your genetics. You need external help for that; your body will not fix itself, contrary to what some say.


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## deerkiller (Aug 5, 2015)

richj8990 said:


> You are a parasympathetic dominant. Which means that if you exercise or participate in sports, your sympathetic (cortisol) system has to compensate more than the average person. That compensation can be enlarged adrenal glands.
> 
> Take as much vitamin C as you can before you get the runs, then back off that dose by about 1/3. Take some flaxseed for fish oil. Practice some deep breathing and/or meditation. If those things still don't help, you may need to try an antidepressant. Don't be afraid of them. If your doctor said nothing is wrong, what they are really trying to say is that you have mild to moderate depression, and it's not reaching the level of major depression, where by law they have to prescribe something. They also are often not allowed to diagnose something relatively minor, which means they are caught between a rock and a hard place ethically and legally, so they just play it safe and say you are fine. Depression is not just sitting around feeling sorry for yourself. Some of the most successful people in history have had it. It's not what you think it is. In fact they should not really even call it depression. Depression is actually anxiety; only atypical depression is really depression. Confused yet?
> 
> ...


I think you understand me. I'll try the vitamin c and fish oil. I did have severe anxiety for a while when this began, but I think I've moved past the mental anguish. Vitamin c is hard to find right now, I'll see what I can find. People are hoarding it because of the Coronavirus. I was taking lypospheric vitamin c last week, I didn't put it together that maybe that's why I felt so good last week.
I just want to ride my bike again. Hopefully some day that materializes. 
Thanks for your insight. I've yet to find a medical professional that understands what I'm dealing with.


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## mtb_phd (Jun 28, 2017)

Hey, I've been through what you describe. Be careful with internet forum medical advice.

Have you seen a health professional experienced with chronic fatigue? Preferably one who understands exercise?

I battled with over-training/chronic fatigue for a few years, but I was young and bounced back with a year of rest. None of the medical professionals I saw were able to help, and that is partly because chronic fatigue is not very well understood.


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## deerkiller (Aug 5, 2015)

I’ve been to more health professionals than I care to mention. Not one has helped me or even has a clue. I’ve spent a fortune on tests and supplements, etc.

Maybe I should see a sports physician, I don’t know.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

pedromj said:


> I experienced the same "adrenal fatigue"


FYI, this is not an actual disease recognized by medical science:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is-adrenal-fatigue-real-2018022813344
https://www.hormone.org/diseases-and-conditions/adrenal-fatigue

I am not dismissing the existence or severity of the symptoms you and the OP experience. Just be aware that if any person giving out medical advice mentions "adrenal fatigue" your quack-o-meter should redline.

OP is describing classic symptoms of a panic attack. He probably has multiple inter-related underlying mental health conditions including anxiety and exercise addiction that were compounded by serious overtraining and needs to see a mental health professional. Strenuous exercise is now a trigger for his anxiety.

Since this might be a difficult time to find and see a good therapist, start here: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/notetoself/episodes/dan-harris-meditation-skeptics

While the details might be different, Dan Harris' story is basically the same as yours. Also, you didn't mention caffeine. If you consume more than nominal amounts you need to cut way back or eliminate it entirely for a while.

Good luck. My wife has struggled with anxiety for years. I'm all too aware of how devastating it can be.

ETA: You should also take the ACE quiz: https://www.npr.org/sections/health...e-quiz-and-learn-what-it-does-and-doesnt-mean


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

richj8990 said:


> if someone is...retarded...


ffs....


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

One thing I forgot to add, and it's really important: eat a lot of protein, the heavy stuff, as in beef. You have a high metabolism and carbs will just speed that up to the point of metabolic breakdown, as in blood sugar swings. 

Your pH is higher than normal, the average blood pH is 7.40 but yours is probably 7.43 to 7.45. That doesn't sound like a big difference but remember it's on a log scale, so 7.50 is 10 times as much hydroxide ion as 7.40. 7.45 is not really 5 times as much hydroxide ion as 7.40 it's technically 3.3x, but you get the picture. Protein will really help acidify your system. Most people have an acid system to begin with but you are an exception, you need to acidify it. CNS activity is proportional to blood pH so the protein will calm down both the blood pH and the blood sugar.


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## deerkiller (Aug 5, 2015)

RMCDan said:


> FYI, this is not an actual disease recognized by medical science:
> 
> https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is-adrenal-fatigue-real-2018022813344
> https://www.hormone.org/diseases-and-conditions/adrenal-fatigue
> ...


thanks for taking the time to reply. while we all know adrenal fatigue is not a real medical term, because glands don't fatigue per se, it's a description of a condition of the adrenal glad, usually high or low cortisol levels, often cycling high, then low.

I don't have panic attacks or anxiety any more, turns out, a lot of people in my family have had them, (this may well be a hereditary issue), and taught me how to get out of them. It's a little too much to describe here, but once you know how to shut it down, you can. And once you start shutting them down, you don't have them anymore. Maybe a therapist could have helped, but i saved $$, lol, just talking to some cousins.

And yes, i think excess caffeine had a lot to do with it. Basically, i think i went a long period of time without getting the proper R/R for the amount of stress and strenuous activities i was involved in.

But, the underlying issue is the adrenal gland. Get your wife the book, "Eat Dirt" by Dr. Josh Axe, and follow it's guidelines with religious fervor. Also subscribe to Dr. Eric Berg on youtube. They have a lot of good stuff on the underlying causes of anxiety. usually it's a gland that is acting up, like the thyroid or the adrenals. Chances are a mental health pro won't catch this. Hopefully your wife can beat this for good.

Anxiety is devastating, and i now no longer make light of it. But i did beat it, at least from a mental perspective. my life is pretty much normal, except i can't sleep after riding my bike, it takes a long time to get my heart rate back down to normal. I would not say exercise is a trigger for my anxiety. I would say that i am struggling with high cortisol and other adrenal related hormone levels.


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## deerkiller (Aug 5, 2015)

richj8990 said:


> One thing I forgot to add, and it's really important: eat a lot of protein, the heavy stuff, as in beef. You have a high metabolism and carbs will just speed that up to the point of metabolic breakdown, as in blood sugar swings.
> 
> Your pH is higher than normal, the average blood pH is 7.40 but yours is probably 7.43 to 7.45. That doesn't sound like a big difference but remember it's on a log scale, so 7.50 is 10 times as much hydroxide ion as 7.40. 7.45 is not really 5 times as much hydroxide ion as 7.40 it's technically 3.3x, but you get the picture. Protein will really help acidify your system. Most people have an acid system to begin with but you are an exception, you need to acidify it. CNS activity is proportional to blood pH so the protein will calm down both the blood pH and the blood sugar.


thanks. makes sense. my dad's ph was so high his skin would corrode steel, like the back of his watches would be eaten straight through.

where do you get your info? are you in natural healthcare? most of the MD's i've been to don't really seem to have a clue.


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## deerkiller (Aug 5, 2015)

ETA: You should also take the ACE quiz: https://www.npr.org/sections/health...e-quiz-and-learn-what-it-does-and-doesnt-mean[/QUOTE]

I aced the ace quiz with a perfect 0 score. no problems there. this is a glandular issue, not a mental health issue. glandular issues can cause anxiety or depression, and that is very important to understand. when the gland gets fixed, things go back to normal.


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## deerkiller (Aug 5, 2015)

mtb_phd said:


> Hey, I've been through what you describe. Be careful with internet forum medical advice.
> 
> Have you seen a health professional experienced with chronic fatigue? Preferably one who understands exercise?
> 
> I battled with over-training/chronic fatigue for a few years, but I was young and bounced back with a year of rest. None of the medical professionals I saw were able to help, and that is partly because chronic fatigue is not very well understood.


thanks!


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

you need an endocrinologist


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

deerkiller said:


> thanks for taking the time to reply. while we all no adrenal fatigue is not a real medical term, because glands don't fatigue per se, it's a description of a condition of the adrenal glad, usually high or low cortisol levels, often cycling high, then low.


Sorry, no. At best, adrenal fatigue is an unproven hypothesis conjured up by a chiropractor with no formal scientific training. The actual science conducted on the subject is unequivocal: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27557747



deerkiller said:


> I don't have panic attacks or anxiety any more


"any exertion results in heart palpitations and not sleeping for 2-3 days"

That's anxiety/panic attack.



deerkiller said:


> Maybe a therapist could have helped, but i saved $$, lol


It would have been better than the money you claim to have wasted on ineffective supplements.



deerkiller said:


> But, the underlying issue is the adrenal gland. Get your wife the book, "Eat Dirt" by Dr. Josh Axe, and follow it's guidelines with religious fervor.


I'm familiar with him. He's a quack hawking overpriced supplements and books filled with nuggets of truth swimming in a sea of pseudoscience and BS.



deerkiller said:


> Hopefully your wife can beat this for good.


She has, through therapy and meditation. She too was convinced her endocrine system was ****ed up despite batteries of tests showing otherwise. All those tests weren't wrong.



deerkiller said:


> my life is pretty much normal, except i can't sleep after riding my bike, it takes a long time to get my heart rate back down to normal. I would not say exercise is a trigger for my anxiety.


Again, heart palpitations and not sleeping for 2-3 days after riding your bike _is_ a panic attack.



deerkiller said:


> this is a glandular issue, not a mental health issue. glandular issues can cause anxiety or depression, and that is very important to understand. when the gland gets fixed, things go back to normal.


And yet you've said yourself that you've been tested to death and apparently all those tests don't show that there is anything wrong with your endocrine system. Take a step back and think about that.


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## deerkiller (Aug 5, 2015)

RMCDan said:


> Sorry, no. At best, adrenal fatigue is an unproven hypothesis conjured up by a chiropractor with no formal scientific training. The actual science conducted on the subject is unequivocal: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27557747
> 
> "any exertion results in heart palpitations and not sleeping for 2-3 days"
> 
> ...


i'm really not trying to start an argument here. I've had panic attacks, and no longer have them. not sleeping restfully is not what a panic attack is. i don't sleep restfully after riding my bike. i don't have panic attacks or anxiety any more. my sleep has greatly improved since those first episodes, i no longer stay awake for 2-3 days. my naturopaths have me on the right track. i can sleep full 8 hour periods now, as long as i don't push it too hard.

all of my panic attacks came after driving a long period of time, or sitting a long period of time. they were intense, i can't even describe it. when i realized pressure against my adrenal glands triggered anxiety and panic, i was able to manage them until they were and are completely gone. all i had to do was lean forward in my chair or truck seat a little bit. this took care of panic, greatly.

my adrenal glands still sting, kind of like a bee sting or mild ant bite, especially after physical exertions. when they sting, i usually don't sleep well. it is a sharp, physical pain. this has been happening less and less often.

i was never able to see an endocrinologist, as my small town doesn't have one any more, so i never got the cortisol levels tested.

if you think dr axe is bunk, try dr berg. dr. berg is better. he not a quack, he is highly respected. i'm sorry you feel dr axe is a quack. that's your opinion, and i'll let you keep it. others have had more positive experiences.

i don't have anxiety any more, or panic attacks, not matter what you think or say. i've had both, i know what they are like. You do not speak for me or my experiences. your wife has anxiety, you claim, yet you think dr axe is bunk. take a step back and think about that.

i'd say my body is 80 percent better. my mind and mental health is probably 110% better, meaning, it's better than is was even before my adrenals crashed. dr. axe's lifestyle changes have helped with that.

i posted on here to see if anyone has had the same problem, and beat it. some have. you haven't. so i'm not really interested in your coming in here, and telling everyone they are doing it wrong.

the MD's could not help me at all. the naturopaths, helped me greatly. i'm looking to win on this last 20%. that's why i said, I'm still struggling. Not with anxiety or panic, just i can't go out and hammer out a ride, and get restful sleep afterwards. it's frustrating. i'm open to conversation. it's been suggested that i go to a sports physician. I might try that. i never thought of that. i was just going to general practitioners, like dr's of family medicine.

everyone finds a different path to healing. show some respect.


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## mrallen (Oct 11, 2017)

deerkiller said:


> about a year ago, my body went into full panic mode, fight or flight 24/7. I began to not be able to sleep, and any exertion results in heart palpitations and not sleeping for 2-3 days.
> 
> The best i can do is walk, and not too fast at that.
> 
> ...


It sounds pretty similar to something I went through. I used to do a couple of long-course triathlons a year. Was never super fast, but could go easily knock out long runs or bikes week after week. I took a job during the Great Recession with a toxic boss and it really ramped up my stress working 14 hours days every day. I still fit in early morning runs to stay sane, but it added up. In 6 months my resting heart rate was through the roof. Basically, I was stressing myself and work and still training.

Interestingly, it really manifested a few months later. I left the job and trained as normal and then one day in the middle of a really short race, I was done. I ended going from easily running a half marathon to not being able to complete an easy three mile run almost overnight. It wasn't a fitness thing, so it sounds like issues you have. I know you won't want to hear this, but this lasted for months.

I did a few things to recover. I left the job working for El Diablo which helped with the work stress. And I had to essentially shut off all workouts. It sucked, but it was a little easier since I couldn't complete a workout anyway. I just shut down and detrained and slept more. That's kind of the bad news. The good news is that 6 months later I was back without losing anywhere near the amount of fitness I had expected to lose, so that could be your experience too. I had promised to do a race with a friend before I cratered, so that was my first time back. I did it with hardly any training in a time that wasn't awful for me, so the fitness sticks around a lot longer than you think.

I'd say give it some time and rest. Do something else. Whatever it is as long as it isn't taxing you. Learn to fish or take up knitting. Well, maybe not the knitting. I'm sure that would be stressful to me. Whatever you do, good luck.


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## deerkiller (Aug 5, 2015)

mrallen said:


> It sounds pretty similar to something I went through. I used to do a couple of long-course triathlons a year. Was never super fast, but could go easily knock out long runs or bikes week after week. I took a job during the Great Recession with a toxic boss and it really ramped up my stress working 14 hours days every day. I still fit in early morning runs to stay sane, but it added up. In 6 months my resting heart rate was through the roof. Basically, I was stressing myself and work and still training.
> 
> Interestingly, it really manifested a few months later. I left the job and trained as normal and then one day in the middle of a really short race, I was done. I ended going from easily running a half marathon to not being able to complete an easy three mile run almost overnight. It wasn't a fitness thing, so it sounds like issues you have. I know you won't want to hear this, but this lasted for months.
> 
> ...


i think in the end, you are exactly right. rest is probably going to be my best friend. thanks so much for the insight and encouragement.

personal rest is something that i neglected for 3 straight years, in ways you can't imagine. i bought a business 4 years ago, and drove it to the top. but i had to deal with a lot of negative emotions in the process. then would drink a lot of coffee. and then i would go on hard rides. on vacation, i would bring my bike, and ride. after work, ride. weekends; ride. weekdays, stress.

i think this is my body, saying, slow down, buddy. i hit the wall pretty hard. I'm almost back, just gotta get over this last hump.

i've been fishing, believe it or not, and archery. and started writing a book. and just hanging out with the kids. covid-19 is my friend, as business is shut down right now.


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## mrallen (Oct 11, 2017)

deerkiller said:


> i think in the end, you are exactly right. rest is probably going to be my best friend. thanks so much for the insight and encouragement.
> 
> personal rest is something that i neglected for 3 straight years, in ways you can't imagine. i bought a business 4 years ago, and drove it to the top. but i had to deal with a lot of negative emotions in the process. then would drink a lot of coffee. and then i would go on hard rides. on vacation, i would bring my bike, and ride. after work, ride. weekends; ride. weekdays, stress.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a plan. Best of luck!


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## careyj1 (May 12, 2017)

Do you live in an area with Ticks?


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

I think I’m experiencing a similar thing albeit on a much smaller scale. Three weeks ago my job closed thanks to COVID19 so I went to stay with my parents. I rode almost every day for the first two weeks. The last ride of the second weak my legs just wouldn’t work right, and it wasn’t even a tough trail. Done it loads of times. Then came the muscle twitches, heart palpitations and sleepless nights. Doc ran my blood work and said it’s fine, but that was a week after I started focusing on electrolyte supplements (magnesium, potassium) so I probably corrected my blood levels in time for the test, but to this day my muscles are still feeling tired and twitchy...

From what I’ve learned so far it definitely sounds like my sympathetic nervous system is stuck in overdrive. I’m hoping the supplements and my multivitamin will settle it down. I know I wasn’t getting the nutrients I needed beforehand, so hopefully the recovery isn’t too long.

It seems like it’s easy to blow yourself up and then it takes a long time to get back together.


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## deerkiller (Aug 5, 2015)

eicca said:


> I think I'm experiencing a similar thing albeit on a much smaller scale. Three weeks ago my job closed thanks to COVID19 so I went to stay with my parents. I rode almost every day for the first two weeks. The last ride of the second weak my legs just wouldn't work right, and it wasn't even a tough trail. Done it loads of times. Then came the muscle twitches, heart palpitations and sleepless nights. Doc ran my blood work and said it's fine, but that was a week after I started focusing on electrolyte supplements (magnesium, potassium) so I probably corrected my blood levels in time for the test, but to this day my muscles are still feeling tired and twitchy...
> 
> From what I've learned so far it definitely sounds like my sympathetic nervous system is stuck in overdrive. I'm hoping the supplements and my multivitamin will settle it down. I know I wasn't getting the nutrients I needed beforehand, so hopefully the recovery isn't too long.
> 
> It seems like it's easy to blow yourself up and then it takes a long time to get back together.


thanks for the reply.

believe it or not, the above poster who suggested high dosages of vitamin C and fish oil have worked better for me than any doctor or health professional's advice. (i'm actually doing hight quality cod-liver oil.)

That, and whatever it takes to get a ton of sleep. in the last several weeks i have seen huge improvements. I've also gone strict keto with intermittent fasting, and bone broth. No sugar, no carbs. after a year of suffering, i can literally say, i'm feeling better by the day.


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