# Indoor mtb investors



## JAYSMTBPARK? (Dec 11, 2011)

*IAM LOOKING FOR INVESTOR IN THE NORTH EAST FOR A INDOOR MT BIKE PARK EMAIL. ME [email protected] :thumbsup:*


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

If you're serious and want a decent amount of money from serious investors you'll need a detailed business plan.


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## b4 stealth (Sep 9, 2007)

And you might want to come up with a different name, to distance yourself from Ray's MTB. I know Ray personally, and while I can't imagine him trying to pursue any sort of legal action, I fee like it would be better for both of your business's to keep yourselves seperate.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

b4 stealth said:


> And you might want to come up with a different name, to distance yourself from Ray's MTB. I know Ray personally, and while I can't imagine him trying to pursue any sort of legal action, I fee like it would be better for both of your business's to keep yourselves seperate.


Yup, I actually thought this was the same company until I read "Ray's" and realized they were separate . . . unless of course "Jay" is trying to capitalize on the "Ray's" name, in which case you'd better hire a good lawyer.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

b4 stealth said:


> And you might want to come up with a different name, to distance yourself from Ray's MTB. I know Ray personally, and while I can't imagine him trying to pursue any sort of legal action, I fee like it would be better for both of your business's to keep yourselves seperate.


Not trying to flame it up, but I dont think there is any sort of legal action to be pursued. It's not the same name. Granted, I would try to come up with something more unique, but It's not my business.

OP, why not talk to Ray from Ray's mtb park. he may be willing to offer some sort of franchise opportunity and he already has a great name for himself and it would probably be easier to get a client base with them.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

You seek investors but want them to e-mail you? What do you bring to the table except a poorly executed plan to raise capital on the internet? All aboard the fail train.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

texasnavy05 said:


> Not trying to flame it up, but I dont think there is any sort of legal action to be pursued. It's not the same name.


Specialized loves suing over the use of "S", or the word "stump". Our local mega grocery chain Wegmans is suing Walgreens over use of the letter "W" as a logo. Actually, yes, corporations can find the most inane things to sue over. And since Trek is now involved with Rays, you can be damn sure there'll be legalese flying all over this one too.


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## ne_dan (Mar 19, 2007)

Ray's can't really do anything about the name. They are in different states and if they incorporated in different staes (which they will most likely be) then the local Secretary of State will check for other businesses with in the state of incorporation for deceptively simialr names. And seeing how they are located in the different states they won't and neither does business in the others state so all is good.

If you throw one of these bike parks with in 50 miles of Boston or New York you'd have a pretty good chance of success there are plenty of old warehouse and old factories. To bad the insurance and rehab on a building not to mention trying to get approval from a zoning board will probably kill any start up funds you have. Theres a reason that even private skate parks don't last too long in the North East.


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## JAYSMTBPARK? (Dec 11, 2011)

*Preview of what my dream is*

Well thanks for the info just looking for suggestions the name would be NEW ENGLAND RAILS RIDE AND RACE.I have a real train caboose donated to me if i have a place the hole email and investors i am looking for a partner i am not a business man if any one has any ideas thats what i am looking for. I did not mean to step on rays toes I think what they have is great.I will call them and pick there brain on how they operate and who built there place and try to get out there and check the place out


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## yahsper (May 23, 2006)

When asking for money use spell check or have someone edit your writing. If I was someone who had money to invest your last post would make me donate to the homeless instead. Seriously try to be a bit more professional. Good luck. I hope your dream comes true.


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## TigerHijinks (Jul 11, 2011)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Specialized loves suing over the use of "S", or the word "stump". Our local mega grocery chain Wegmans is suing Walgreens over use of the letter "W" as a logo. Actually, yes, corporations can find the most inane things to sue over. And since Trek is now involved with Rays, you can be damn sure there'll be legalese flying all over this one too.


If companies don't pursue action to protect their trademarks they pretty much automatically lose them. It's not that they are trying to make money, they are just protecting their property basically.


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## Jim Mac (Jun 29, 2004)

Might want to talk to these northeast people - they seem slightly ahead of you:

Cranx


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## wilks (Jan 15, 2004)

I heard there is one opening in Philly too. The place to do it would be Newark NJ I reckon!


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)




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## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

wilks said:


> I heard there is one opening in Philly too. The place to do it would be Newark NJ I reckon!


+ Syracuse, NY

Cranx

:thumbsup:


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

A couple things I want to point out here. Ray no longer owns Rays MTB. He sold it to Trek summer 2010 because he didnt have the finances to start up Rays Milwaukee. Second, I live about a mile away from Ray and run in to him fairly often. Without going into to much detail, There are plans for a Rays Mtb in the in the north east being made as we speak. So be patient and you will have a place to ride in the winter.


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## drivengsxr1000 (May 5, 2011)

i say come to florida so i have a place to ride in the summers


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

mullen119 said:


> There are plans for a Rays Mtb in the in the north east being made as we speak. So be patient and you will have a place to ride in the winter.


Yess yes yes yesssss. Ray, you would be _the man_ in my book if you opened one in the NY tri state area, preferably in the nearby hudson valley


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

Perhaps contact the Small Business Association in your area.

The U.S. Small Business Administration | SBA.gov

When I was in college one of my class projects was to partner with the SBA to help entrepreneurs hoping to start a business. We assisted in the creation of their business plan which they needed to obtain financing.

Don't ever let anyone tell you your business idea won't work or can't be done. Entrepreneurs make things happen while other people insist it can't work. However, you need to get organized and put together a real business plan in order to obtain legitimate financing. Emails on mtbr.com simply won't cut it. The SBA should be able to point you in the right direction.

Also, don't think you need to have a college business degree to succeed. Actually a business degree is a liability. Business schools teach people how things "ought" to be done and what supposedly CAN'T possibly work. As a result, business schools KILL entrepreneurial spirit. Business schools are good at creating middle managers. Entrepreneurs are better served making things happen rather then wasting time in business school.

Go to your local public library and look at books related to starting a business. But don't bother with management books.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

This one's for the old dudes (warning! You can call me Ray content....)


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

masterofnone said:


> Yess yes yes yesssss. Ray, you would be _the man_ in my book if you opened one in the NY tri state area, preferably in the nearby hudson valley


Your not to far off:thumbsup:


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Northeast ? I know some guys that would give you a loan, and possibly construction assistance... and waste disposal.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

92gli said:


> Northeast ? I know some guys that would give you a loan, and possibly construction assistance... and waste disposal.


Can they also install vending machines and handle off track betting?


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Here's one coming to the Syracuse, NY area...

Cranx

There's been some discussion on the New York forum...


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

92gli said:


> Northeast ? I know some guys that would give you a loan, and possibly construction assistance... and waste disposal.


Careful, admitting who you know, wiseguy.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

drivengsxr1000 said:


> i say come to florida so i have a place to ride in the summers


how would you afford the entry fee that needs to offset the A/C bill?


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## JAYSMTBPARK? (Dec 11, 2011)

*U dont need ac to ride*

easy no ac you stand in the heat at the track NO AC


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## zac102 (Jul 24, 2010)

JAYSMTBPARK? said:


> easy no ac you stand in the heat at the track NO AC


He was referring to an indoor park in Florida, to be used during the summer months. It's a shame you couldn't pick up on the joke. You totally had me as an investor until this.

But honestly, I don't think the indoor mountain bike park racket is a solid business to try to break into. Ray was able to get a pretty good deal on the site in Cleveland for the first couple years which is what made it possible. He was likely just scrapping by until Trek bought out the liability.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

You from Nigeria by chance?


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## JAYSMTBPARK? (Dec 11, 2011)

the building that i was thinking of has been empty for 12+ years so i may can get at good rental price and the skate park wood make more money than the mtb trails take a look at camp Woodward


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## Jlee197853 (Mar 15, 2004)

2nd the grammar and punctuation. Seriously dude you are trying to raise money? You make it look like you are 12 when you post stuff like this. Bad grammar, no punctuation, no capitals. I don't know too many people that would give you money! :madman:


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## ARCHAIC (Jun 4, 2011)

They see me trollin.....they hatin


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## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Great news Jay!

I am an investor from Nigeria...
I have $12,500,212 to invest in your business venture.
I would first need your:
Name
Address
Social Security Number
Bank Account Numbers
Bank Name & Location

I will need all this info so I can expedite the money transfer to your account in the amount of $12,500,212!

Also I will need deposit to my account in the amount of $10,000 to cover the cost of lawyers and paperwork fees.

Sincerely,
Joseph Ngabe

*DISCLAIMER: This is just a joke... Don't send me your info!**If you do... You deserve to lose all of your money!*


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Eckstream1 said:


> Great news Jay!
> 
> I am an investor from Nigeria...
> I have $12,500,212 to invest in your business venture.
> ...


:lol: :lol: :lol: + rep for making me laugh out loud.


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## zac102 (Jul 24, 2010)

JAYSMTBPARK? said:


> the building that i was thinking of has been empty for 12+ years so i may can get at good rental price and the skate park wood make more money than the mtb trails take a look at camp Woodward


if the building has been empty for over a decade, you're going to have some serious repair work to do. there are empty buildings where I live that literally have trees growing on their roofs. Fixing up an old building will cost $$$.

But if you're serious about this, my recommendation would be to come up with a business plan (you'll need to look at startup and operating costs plus legal issues at a minimum) and start looking for local investors. There isn't a whole lot of money to be made here (I see Ray at local MTB races, he isn't exactly showing up in an Escalade and 24" rims) so the best people to contact are people that will want to use the park. If I was looking to invest in a money making operation, a mountain bike park several states away would be pretty far towards the bottom of the list.

And as others have said, you grammar, spelling, and punctuation is terrible. At best it makes you come off as lazy, at worst, borderline mentally deficient. Why would I want to loan money to someone with either quality?


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

I would be willing to invest two goats and three chickens into this business venture.


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## bigfruits (Mar 21, 2011)

i got 5 on it.


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## DWill (Aug 24, 2010)

I has a dea to please send me sum monee


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

First Ray does own Rays in Cleveland and is a partial owner of Milwaukee with Trek. He didn't completely sell the franchise. With that said Trek already has plans laid out for several more parks and I hear there may be some outside of the US. 

The name Jay's MTN Bike will have Trek's legal department at your door for sure. 

Also, any interested investors would like to know you are competing with the financial backing of Trek. Considering they have more expertise and capitol on hand, it's not a barrier to entry, but something worth considering. 

Also, I like the pictures of "what you want to make" that include a picture of Ray's Milwaukee.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

GTR-33 said:


> First Ray does own Rays in Cleveland and is a partial owner of Milwaukee with Trek. He didn't completely sell the franchise. With that said Trek already has plans laid out for several more parks and I hear there may be some outside of the US.
> 
> The name Jay's MTN Bike will have Trek's legal department at your door for sure.
> 
> ...


You are wrong about Ray owning it still. I have talked to him about it several times. Its also why all the employees that worked for Ray no longer worked there after the sale.

This article sums it up nicely too 
Trek buys Ray's Indoor MTB Park - ensures expansion in Milwaukee - JSOnline


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> You are wrong about Ray owning it still. I have talked to him about it several times. Its also why all the employees that worked for Ray no longer worked there after the sale.
> 
> This article sums it up nicely too
> Trek buys Ray's Indoor MTB Park - ensures expansion in Milwaukee - JSOnline


He still partially owns the Cleveland Ray's. This is from the man (Ray) himself and many people at both Rays and Trek. I suppose they could be all lying.

Also Ray is currently a Trek employee, doesn't meant he can't own some part of the original Rays.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

GTR-33 said:


> He still partially owns the Cleveland Ray's. This is from the man (Ray) himself and many people at both Rays and Trek. I suppose they could be all lying.
> 
> Also Ray is currently a Trek employee, doesn't meant he can't own some part of the original Rays.


I guess he told you something different from what he told me then. I will ask him again next time I see him


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> I guess he told you something different from what he told me then. I will ask him again next time I see him


Are you a friend of his or something? Why would you assume he would be completely candid about his financial holdings with every person he talks to?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

GTR-33 said:


> Are you a friend of his or something? Why would you assume he would be completely candid about his financial holdings with every person he talks to?


I know him fairly well. I wouldnt say friends though. I have know him since 2004, had my wedding pictures taken at the park(one is hanging up there at the entrance of the rhythm room), and run into him many times on the locals trail/park and at local stores.

Like I said, I will ask him again next time I see him. But he told my wife and I that he sold it to trek and is much happier without the stress and financial burden. Maybe he isnt completely candid with me, but I have no reason to believe that is the case.


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## JAYSMTBPARK? (Dec 11, 2011)

hay if this thread is so bad then stay the [email protected]#$% off my thread


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> I know him fairly well. I wouldnt say friends though. I have know him since 2004, had my wedding pictures taken at the park(one is hanging up there at the entrance of the rhythm room), and run into him many times on the locals trail/park and at local stores.
> 
> Like I said, I will ask him again next time I see him. But he told my wife and I that he sold it to trek and is much happier without the stress and financial burden. Maybe he isnt completely candid with me, but I have no reason to believe that is the case.


Owning it and having to do the paperwork are two different things. He told me the same thing. He is now responsible for new parks etc. That has nothing to do with partially owning Cleveland. He said he sold it all the rights to Trek but part of Cleveland he still technically owns.

I could be wrong, and I don't really care, but owning something and managing it are two different things.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

JAYSMTBPARK? said:


> hay if this thread is so bad then stay the [email protected]#$% off my thread


I think you meant to write "hey"... not "hay"...... hay is for horses my friend :thumbsup:


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

JAYSMTBPARK? said:


> hay if this thread is so bad then stay the [email protected]#$% off my thread


What is the point of this thread? You aren't going to get and real investment interest from someone that actually has money from someone viewing this thread.

Also... Just a question, but do you know anything about park construction or construction in general? Law perhaps? Why would a savvy investor need you?


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## crazy03 (Mar 15, 2011)

mullen119 said:


> I think you meant to write "hey"... not "hay"...... hay is for horses my friend :thumbsup:


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> I think you meant to write "hey"... not "hay"...... hay is for horses my friend :thumbsup:


That reminds me of this.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> That reminds me of this.


I admit it, I chuckled.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> That reminds me of this.


Thats pretty funny. :lol:


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## JAYSMTBPARK? (Dec 11, 2011)

*its all good*


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

...just giving you crap man. Get that business plan to together and make your dream happen.


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## JAYSMTBPARK? (Dec 11, 2011)

*thanks*

look i am not a business man i am a truck driver who races bmx for fun. (and sometimes serious ) 51 to 55 cruiser the skate park and mtb park would support the bmx track.my spelling and punctuation is not what it should be..Maybe this thread was a bad idea at the time i thought it was a good idea. My kids are why i am looking into this thay are 3yrs 6 and 11 we live in CT. and have noplace to rid that is close.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## SilkMoneyLove (Nov 1, 2010)

Some good advice in this thread. 

Now that I have your real motivation (kids and yourself want a spot close to ride) I can tell you that it would be better to spend your time and money buying a lot with an outbuilding, or a hobby farm with a barn and turn that into your own personal MTB park. 

You may be able to set up a private club (like hunting clubs) and charge dues to members to cover costs if you want to expand it beyond just your family.

The insurance in running an indoor MTB park is the big ongoing expense. And, it only goes up if something happens. One kid breaks a leg, Mom and Dad sues and you are in for a lot of time and $$$. 

However, if your dream is to build a big park that is open to the public, it would be best to contact the people that do it (Rays and the few other places) to talk to them about maybe a franchise or at least find out what their expansion plans are in your area (maybe they are headed your way?).


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

I don't really see this plan attracting any investors for the obvious reasons, but as a lawyer I just thought I would point out that making a public announcement that you are seeking investors is considered by U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to be a public offering/solicitation, which requires all sorts of filings and registrations to be made with the SEC.

In other words, you can't run ads in a newspaper or magazine, or hand out flyers on the corner, or call for investors in an internet forum like this. You cannot raise money from anyone with whom you do not have a substantial pre-existing relationship (and even then there are additional requirements). Otherwise the solicitation will violate the prohibition against general solicitations. The result is you would face enforcement actions by the federal government, and be personally liable to the investors, and they can sue you to recover the principal, interest, and attorney fees.

So, even if you do put together a business plan, go ahead and ask for advice on this forum, but don't go asking for investors or partners. :nono:

Disclaimer: I am not your attorney, this communication doesn't create any sort of attorney-client relationship, go seek out your own professional legal counsel.


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## Estral (Sep 24, 2007)

The Boz said:


> I don't really see this plan attracting any investors for the obvious reasons, but as a lawyer I just thought I would point out that making a public announcement that you are seeking investors is considered by U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to be a public offering/solicitation, which requires all sorts of filings and registrations to be made with the SEC.
> 
> In other words, you can't run ads in a newspaper or magazine, or hand out flyers on the corner, or call for investors in an internet forum like this. You cannot raise money from anyone with whom you do not have a substantial pre-existing relationship (and even then there are additional requirements). Otherwise the solicitation will violate the prohibition against general solicitations. The result is you would face enforcement actions by the federal government, and be personally liable to the investors, and they can sue you to recover the principal, interest, and attorney fees.
> 
> ...


America, land of the fr.... Oh wait, never mind.


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## supergroove (Aug 9, 2011)

Man, the fact you actually spent time to write that rubbish almost to prove you knew it, then procede to effectively say, I have knowledge, but I'm not willing to give you anything, just sums up all thats wrong in this world.

Everyone is so worried about covering their arses these days. Most of the other posts have at least been constructive, but this sort of stuff shits me to tears.


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## MassgraveX (Mar 20, 2008)

I'll be your lawyer. For $700 an hour, including phone calls, emails, and forum responses. You now owe me $30 for writing this post. You can Paypal me directly. PM me for the Paypal email address.


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## DWill (Aug 24, 2010)

The Boz said:


> I don't really see this plan attracting any investors for the obvious reasons, but as a lawyer I just thought I would point out that making a public announcement that you are seeking investors is considered by U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to be a public offering/solicitation, which requires all sorts of filings and registrations to be made with the SEC.
> 
> In other words, you can't run ads in a newspaper or magazine, or hand out flyers on the corner, or call for investors in an internet forum like this. You cannot raise money from anyone with whom you do not have a substantial pre-existing relationship (and even then there are additional requirements). Otherwise the solicitation will violate the prohibition against general solicitations. The result is you would face enforcement actions by the federal government, and be personally liable to the investors, and they can sue you to recover the principal, interest, and attorney fees.
> 
> ...


Well, he could do a Reg D 504, 505 or 506 offering.

But he'd still have the advertising problem and some filings to do. 
At least he'd get around the personal relationship issue.

Of course he'd need a some form of a corp, get a PPM done and pay all the filing fees and file all the state registrations and/or notices wherever he sells or in some states intends to sell his corps securities. So of course that means he'll need some money to get all that done before he does his offering.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

Maybe, Jay, this is gonna be a pain in your a.
Have you considered snow sports ?


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

supergroove said:


> Man, the fact you actually spent time to write that rubbish almost to prove you knew it, then procede to effectively say, I have knowledge, but I'm not willing to give you anything, just sums up all thats wrong in this world.
> 
> Everyone is so worried about covering their arses these days. Most of the other posts have at least been constructive, but this sort of stuff shits me to tears.


Actually I was just trying to give the guy some free advice to keep him out of hot water, both to him and anyone else that might be interested. And I didn't want to just say "you can't do this" but explain why, so it ran a little long.

It is sad that everyone has to cover their ass, but I don't make the rules man, I just try and help folks understand em, and you can't blame me for not wanting some nut job to sue me over some bad or incomplete advice I gave on some @#$%ing internet forum (yes, this kind of stuff happens, sadly).


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## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

so you can type shits on mtbr, but not **** ?


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