# Grove Innovations Parts on this Cannondale 26 24



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

I picked up this Cannondale 26 24 and it has the Innovations Hammerhead bars and Innovations fork. They don't say Grove on them though. Are they manufactured by Grove, or did Grove sell the rights to someone else later?


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## Veloculture (Dec 18, 2005)

damn dude, sick bike! those ride really nice.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

beast of the east??


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Yeah, I agree. I took the foot straps off, but that was it. Put in some air and took off. It is really my size, too.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ScottyMTB said:


> I picked up this Cannondale 26 24 and it has the Innovations Hammerhead bars and Innovations fork. They don't say Grove on them though. Are they manufactured by Grove, or did Grove sell the rights to someone else later?


Nice find. Like Sky says, those ride feel pretty good for their age.

For the life of me I cant remember what skateboard that is on the head tube, is it Rob Roskopp??


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

Those are Grove parts, that's a really nice find :thumbsup:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

I kind of dig the paint. ST RC's front and rear don't hurt either.

Ditch the bike rack and get a more period correct seat and you're good to go!


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## YETIFIED (May 4, 2005)

hollister said:


> beast of the east??


I think Beasts came later. I had a '90 Beast with those extended dropouts. The bike in the picture is around an '86.


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## YETIFIED (May 4, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Nice find. Like Sky says, those ride feel pretty good for their age.
> 
> For the life of me I cant remember what skateboard that is on the head tube, is it Rob Roskopp??


Wasn't Roskopp the screaming hand?


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

YETIFIED said:


> I think Beasts came later. I had a '90 Beast with those extended dropouts. The bike in the picture is around an '86.


thanks for clearing that up for me.by extended dropouts are you refering to the cantilevered dropouts,or something else?


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## YETIFIED (May 4, 2005)

hollister said:


> thanks for clearing that up for me.by extended dropouts are you refering to the cantilevered dropouts,or something else?


Yup, and they came with a replaceable der hanger.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

My pal Earl Bob was sponsored by Grove for a while in the late 80's and very early 90's, though only used his forks, bars, etc. not frames and every single fork he was sent broke. Not bent, but broke. Was this common for Grove's forks or was Earl just unlucky. As a disclaimer, I don't recall Earl ever having any fork issues with other makes, nor did he tend to get air very often.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Oh, and very cool bike. I always had a hankering for one of those.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

The seat that was on it had the nice duct tape finish, so I just grabbed the first one I saw. I think I have something that might work. This set me back a whole $20. I was going to post it in the "worst mountain bike inventions" thread a while back since someone mentioned splatter paint jobs.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

hollister said:


> thanks for clearing that up for me.by extended dropouts are you refering to the cantilevered dropouts,or something else?


I think he means this:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

My first skateboard was a Roskopp.



















Screaming hand was Santa Cruz.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Nice find. Like Sky says, those ride feel pretty good for their age.
> 
> For the life of me I cant remember what skateboard that is on the head tube, is it Rob Roskopp??


I thought the screaming hand was for the speed wheels as in 'speed wheels scream.'

I feel dumb, the post above mine wasn't there when I submitted this.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> My first skateboard was a Roskopp.


Its kind of interesting that a few years after that bike was made, Rob Roskopp went on to also tear it up on the mountain bike but then started a fairly popular mountain bike company.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Its kind of interesting that a few years after that bike was made, Rob Roskopp went on to also tear it up on the mountain bike but then started a fairly popular mountain bike company.


With the same name and primary investors as the skate company he used to ride for no less. He used to come into where I worked in SC. Real nice guy.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> I think he means this:


exactly


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## StevieDT (Jun 25, 2004)

Does the bike have a "The Bicycle Shop" sticker on it?


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

IF52 said:


> My pal Earl Bob was sponsored by Grove for a while in the late 80's and very early 90's, though only used his forks, bars, etc. not frames and every single fork he was sent broke. Not bent, but broke. Was this common for Grove's forks or was Earl just unlucky. As a disclaimer, I don't recall Earl ever having any fork issues with other makes, nor did he tend to get air very often.


Grove had a reputation for producing the strongest and most over built stuff available. I've never heard of a Grove fork breaking that hadn't undergone some serious abuse.


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

WTB-rider said:


> Grove had a reputation for producing the strongest and most over built stuff available. I've never heard of a Grove fork breaking that hadn't undergone some serious abuse.


Agree. I own and have been around plenty o Grove, never seen a bent or broken Hot Head /Hammer Head, or fork.

The Hot Rods cranks on the other hand, they seem to be the Nuke Proof hubs of cranks, some good, some bad. I'm gentle on the 2 pairs I own and was lucky enough to pick up another 2 pair recently.  Veloculture


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

ScottyMTB said:


> I picked up this Cannondale 26 24 and it has the Innovations Hammerhead bars and Innovations fork. They don't say Grove on them though. Are they manufactured by Grove, or did Grove sell the rights to someone else later?
> 
> They sure appear to be Grove made. There is another thread around here somewhere that talks about how Grove did make bars for other manufacters at one time such as Fat. In fact the 1 Fat that First Flight owns has Hot Heads on it. But is sure is possible that the previous owner upgraded the bars and fork sometime along the way. You know how brutal the Cannondale Alu forks can be (Peperonni)
> 
> With Groves and Cannondales both being made in PA they would not have had to go far from State College PA to Bedford PA.


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## YETIFIED (May 4, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> I think he means this:


Yup Eric, there they are.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Bicycle Shop Sticker*



StevieDT said:


> Does the bike have a "The Bicycle Shop" sticker on it?


That sounds familiar but I will have to check. Do you know the place?


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## StevieDT (Jun 25, 2004)

ScottyMTB said:


> That sounds familiar but I will have to check. Do you know the place?


It was the local shop in State College where Herm (purple lizard), Knipe and Don C. worked. It was also a cannondale dealer. These guys all worked for Grove BITD. They were also skaters and plastered their bikes with stickers. I bought Herm's old Dale with proto-type Hardcore forks and full XC pro kit back in '86. It has the Roskopp headtube sticker on it.

Where did you find yours? Do you know the sellers name?


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

StevieDT said:


> It was the local shop in State College where Herm (purple lizard), Knipe and Don C. worked. It was also a cannondale dealer. These guys all worked for Grove BITD. They were also skaters and plastered their bikes with stickers. I bought Herm's old Dale with proto-type Hardcore forks and full XC pro kit back in '86. It has the Roskopp headtube sticker on it.
> 
> Where did you find yours? Do you know the sellers name?


That is so cool. I got it at a second hand bike shop. I looked at the shop sticker and the splatter paint job is over the sticker, so either the shop did it or the owner did it after he bought it. I guess I will keep the Roskopp headtube on it as well. It would be cool to find out whose it was, assuming they didn't want it back of course. Ha ha.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ScottyMTB said:


> That is so cool. I got it at a second hand bike shop. I looked at the shop sticker and the splatter paint job is over the sticker, so either the shop did it or the owner did it after he bought it. I guess I will keep the Roskopp headtube on it as well. It would be cool to find out whose it was, assuming they didn't want it back of course. Ha ha.


you'd think maybe I was an east coast dude.  Here you go, there is an email contact if you scroll down a bit:

http://www.purplelizard.com/


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Purple Lizard*



Fillet-brazed said:


> you'd think maybe I was an east coast dude.  Here you go, there is an email contact if you scroll down a bit:
> 
> http://www.purplelizard.com/


Thanks, I will check it out.


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

J Ro said:


> Agree. I own and have been around plenty o Grove, never seen a bent or broken Hot Head /Hammer Head, or fork.
> 
> The Hot Rods cranks on the other hand, they seem to be the Nuke Proof hubs of cranks, some good, some bad. I'm gentle on the 2 pairs I own and was lucky enough to pick up another 2 pair recently.  Veloculture


Yepper, heard this about the Hot Rods back when they were still being produced, made me reluctant to pull the trigger. Looking back, I still wish I had.

Still riding my Grove X, 12 years after buying it new in '94. :thumbsup:


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## herm (Jun 29, 2006)

ScottyMTB - thanks for turning me on to this thread. I'll work thru the questions....

There is a good chance that 24-26 C-dale belonged to Don Coffman when he was the master mechanic at the Bicycle Shop in State College. This would be anytime between 1984 and the early 1990s. Don went on to work for Grove, Trek, Burley and is now with SRAM. He painted alot of bikes with that splatter style, and yes, we were skaters too so alot of our bikes had skate stickers.

I'm gonna guess SteveDT would be of the Mark and MaryBeth DT clan? If so, good to hear from ya bruddah, been a long time - maybe 15 years or more? Does your bro still have that sweet one-off Grove track bike?

The forks on that C-dale are old school Grove Assault forks, with a Hammerhead. I can't be certain, but the stickers appear to be exactly that - stickers. Those are early; later versions went to real decals under clearcoat. Looks like period correct ODI mushroom grips, OEM tires? probably a Specialized steel headset? which would have been put in with the Grove front end, I think they came from Cdale with an aluminum rollerbearing headset from Cdale... looks like an original Suntour group, first gen powercams, friction shifters....nice find! hard to find that stuff intact - izzat the correct rear der. too?

This C-dale pre-dates the Beast of the East models, that is a first generation, original design, maybe a second generation or so 24-26. Look how long those chain stays are. No replaceable drop outs. This frame was the reason they needed replaceable drop outs - you could bend that hanger back maybe twice, but heat treated aluminum is brittle. The first colors were yellow or green, then they introduced pink and green. Assuming that is original green paint - since you say it has a Bicycle Shop sticker (gold, right?) Don would splatter the paint job by hand. The very first generation forks on those early 'dales were bulletproof with a box crown design, but they weren't particularly cool looking, so they often got swapped out. The second gen forks went to a unicrown design and they didn't hold up well in the context of dropping stairs and loading docks, and that is probably the style of fork that came on the green frame. I'd guess the original fork bent and a Grove was put on. Almost everyone who rode in Central PA/Rothrock back in the day ran Hammerheads, the Grove 'front end' was a popular set up, in fact that is how Grove started before he made frames.

The Hot Rods question - there were two wall thickness (tubing thickness) Hot Rods, and they look identical, so although it appears that it is a crap shoot on which break and which don't, the truth is all the thin walls will probably break if you do drops on them. No way to tell which is which.... but the thicker wall won't fail. The thicker wall is the same cromoly diameter of the Hammerhead, the thinner is the tubing of the Hot Head. The thin tubes are heat treated to reach the same strength as a non-heat treated thick wall, the benefit is lighter weight. The name "Hot" Head or Rod refers to the heat treating. Unfortunately Grove went too light on the first gen Hot Rods, and when he realized they were all breaking he destroyed al the unsold stock (insert crying and major cash flow loss here) and built the thicker wall, but the damage to the reputation of them being weak was done... and at that time the industry was demanding lightweight stuff, so he simply stopped making cranks. Too bad, they were ahead of thier time (like many of Grove's designs)

Grove Forks, in general, were very stout. But he experimented with thinner wall tubing for his sponsored riders, thinking that a XC racer wouldn't be so hard on them, but the PA terrain (rocks) proved otherwise. So the comment about Grove forks bending on a sponsored rider makes sense - many did. Grove experimented with a HotFork as well, with disasterous results - I personally snapped one of them with quite painful results... but keep in mind these were never available to the public. there was a small run of HardCore forks that had a poor crown design that developed cracks, but rarely broke - most riders noticed the cracks and sent them back. And I mean maybe 30 of these forks were ever sold, no large numbers.

OK - the Grove name may say Grove, or Innovations, or Grove Innovations - all the same stuff, just different decals. The early ones have no decals. The very, very early Hammerheads, absolutely oldest old school, were on the very early Fat Chance bikes. Maybe 50 or so total, when Chris Chance was starting out, he called Bill Grove and they got together. East coast builders were rare, all those guys jnew each other. The deal didn't really last - Chris went big with outside financial partners and used other vendors, Bill wanted to make handmade frames on his own, so they went thier seperate ways. But a few of those old school Fats with Grove bars still turn up intact.

Other stuff - Grove made forks for the C-dale tandems for about two years, before C-dale was tooled up to make the peperonnis. He also built frames for Brave and Eastern Woods Research. some of these are on-line in JeffAarchers collection at First Flight Bikes.

So.. that should answer a few of the questions for now. Glad to hear people are still into it!

mike - www.purplelizard.com


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Thanks again Mike!


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

herm said:


> Grove Forks, in general, were very stout. But he experimented with thinner wall tubing for his sponsored riders, thinking that a XC racer wouldn't be so hard on them, but the PA terrain (rocks) proved otherwise. So the comment about Grove forks bending on a sponsored rider makes sense - many did. Grove experimented with a HotFork as well, with disasterous results - I personally snapped one of them with quite painful results... but keep in mind these were never available to the public. there was a small run of HardCore forks that had a poor crown design that developed cracks, but rarely broke - most riders noticed the cracks and sent them back. And I mean maybe 30 of these forks were ever sold, no large numbers.
> 
> mike - www.purplelizard.com


Yeah, I think I remember Earl commenting about the forks he was using being new designs, blah, blah, blah. Like I wrote, the ones I saw that failed didn't bend, the legs snapped right up near the fork crown. He had to have gone through at least 3 that I saw.

Never heard of Grove's frames failing, though.

*EDIT* And yeah, were were in the southeast, so rocky, rooty conditions. Even without catching big air, your still pounding through that stuff.


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## xinapray (Feb 12, 2006)

herm said:


> This C-dale pre-dates the Beast of the East models, that is a first generation, original design, maybe a second generation or so 24-26. Look how long those chain stays are. No replaceable drop outs. This frame was the reason they needed replaceable drop outs - you could bend that hanger back maybe twice, but heat treated aluminum is brittle. The first colors were yellow or green, then they introduced pink and green. Assuming that is original green paint - since you say it has a Bicycle Shop sticker (gold, right?) Don would splatter the paint job by hand. The very first generation forks on those early 'dales were bulletproof with a box crown design, but they weren't particularly cool looking, so they often got swapped out. The second gen forks went to a unicrown design and they didn't hold up well in the context of dropping stairs and loading docks, and that is probably the style of fork that came on the green frame. I'd guess the original fork bent and a Grove was put on. Almost everyone who rode in Central PA/Rothrock back in the day ran Hammerheads, the Grove 'front end' was a popular set up, in fact that is how Grove started before he made frames.
> 
> mike - www.purplelizard.com


That's a second generation 'Dale. The first generation had a BMX sidepull brake in the rear and cantis up front. I _think_ they only came in metallic gunmetal gray.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*BMX brakes*



xinapray said:


> That's a second generation 'Dale. The first generation had a BMX sidepull brake in the rear and cantis up front. I _think_ they only came in metallic gunmetal gray.


yeah, you are right. First Flight has one that has a bmx caliper.


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## 24pouces (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks to Herm for all the informations-history of this bike, and thanks to scotty MTB ! :thumbsup: 
This bike is now in the south of France, near the mediterranean sea and the pyrénées !
I change the bianchi saddle by a Brooks professionnal, and the plastic shimano pedal for aluminum cage BMX pedal. I hope to find the suntour original pedal, but they are too much expensive on ebay&#8230;
What a pleasure to ride it. It seems my first moutain bike, with no friction shifters, no suspensions&#8230; no technology. You ride it, that's all ! Only freedom, fun and pleasure ! 

I've got now two of these old cannondale with a 24" rear wheel : a 1988 SM600 black and red, i'm restoring : It was the first C'dale I saw in France, in 1988. Buying and riding such a bike was a dream. I want to do the french race "Roc d'Azur" with it, but just for fun.
Old bikes have to be riden with care, but they can still give us good feelings !  
It's funny to see that the marketing want to sell MTB with 29" wheels. But, now, the bikes with a smaller rear wheel are comming back (69er for example). Do you think that cannondale was a precursor?  
(I still ride with a 24"rear wheel !  )


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Wow. That is amazing to think that was in my garage one day, and the next, the Pyrenes! Looks great! I will see what I can do about some suntour pedals for ya, man. 
Scotty


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## LIFECYCLE (Mar 8, 2006)

I started a thread earlier today asking for odd and interesting vintage bikes and although no one answered this particular thread just says it all for me.That Cannondale is just spot on. CAN I HAVE IT PLEASE.............!!!!!!


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Maybe start a thread about odd and interesting riders and you will get more responses.


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## Elevation12000 (Jun 16, 2004)

24pouces,

Congrats with the bike  ...and AWESOME pics!


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## 24pouces (Jan 8, 2007)

When an US vintage bike meets another US machine in France&#8230;
You only know the green and the yellow in USA ?


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

I wouldn't leave those two alone, especially on the 4th of July!


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## 24pouces (Jan 8, 2007)

Yes, the 4th of july ! 
If you prefer, I change the picture for that !  










:band:


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## 24pouces (Jan 8, 2007)

The 26 24 SM700 is very funny to ride : I remember old feelings as shifting with the ear (only friction shifting), no suspension. It climb very well (the frame is still stiff), and the 24" rear wheel is really a good idea (I don't understandwhy 29" whee). It's heavier than my 1988 SM600, but it's not really a problem. 
You have not the shoes for clipless pedals, your suspension or the speeds aren't adjusted, do you have the good tire… Stop thinking ! Take this old cannon and go riding, only riding, for the fun :thumbsup: 

The modern carbon too complicated full suspension are boring. You don't feel the bike, you don't feel the ground where you ride, you don't feel the lanscape around you… Why cannondale stopped to built these frame, these making fun machine, (with the little rear wheel or not). The best of the east was a good evolution of this old bike. Specialized is saling a new old school stumpjumper. Why cannondale don't do the same thing with a 26 24" bike ?


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## 24pouces (Jan 8, 2007)

Just news of this old C'dale.
Still riden !!!! :thumbsup:


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

wow


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