# Drivetrain not smooth



## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Recently my bikes drivetrain has started to get really 'rough'. It's hard to explain, but when you ride it it, you can feel it clicking slightly. It doesn't happen throughout the whole chain, but only on some bits, you feel resistance. You can't hear it click, but you can feel it. It is also very loud even with a good amount of lube. 

I have adjusted it multiple times, using cable tension, high/low limit screws and the B screw. Did it using many youtube methods. Everything is cleaned...etc... The hanger seems to be straight, der cage is also pretty straight. 

What could be the cause of the problem? Everything was normal a few months ago... 

Is it normal for the bike cassette to slightly move to the left/right when tightening quick release? - Just one thing I noticed when re-installing back wheel yesterday. 

Shimano Deore LX rear der, Acera front der.

Thanks for any help !


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## dunerinaz (Mar 5, 2009)

How old is the chain?


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Since I first bought the bike, which was around 3 years ago... It has been used for mostly commuting and some MTBing.


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## manabiker (Jul 18, 2010)

Did you ever think it may be bearing problems, freewheel shouldn't move, it may be time to take it to a shop if you can't figure it out soon.


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## dunerinaz (Mar 5, 2009)

bikeman1 said:


> Since I first bought the bike, which was around 3 years ago... It has been used for mostly commuting and some MTBing.


I think you're over due for a new chain. Also check for worn teeth on the chainrings and cassette. Pull the BB and check the bearings. Do one thing at a time to eliminate possibilities.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

The first thing I check with such issues is the cable/housing. Shift to the big rear cog. Then press your finger shifter several times without turning the cranks. That should create enough slack in the cable to remove the housing sections from the frame. Slide the housing on the cable to see if there is much resistance. All sections should slide very freely. Probably time for a new chain, as others have mentioned.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

3yrs is a long time for a chain. I'll second looking into worn drivetrain bits (also check your cassette and chainrings for wear) and replace whatever is worn. If you only replace one worn part, it can actually make the problem worse, so keep that in mind.

It is also a long time for cables, especially if you commute in foul weather. I'd replace the cables, too.

checking your bearings is also a good idea, to be certain they've got enough clean grease.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I'll take it into the LBS soon. 

I found that if I do up the quick release on the bike upside down, and the wheel is very slightly pointing towards the left when you look down while riding (not exactly in center of frame), the problem decreases slightly, but when doing the QR while sitting on the bike so the wheel is straight in the center, it becomes all rough again. 

I'm sure it all relates to the problem I was having with the wheel coming out of the dropout and faulty skewer.... Still need to get that skewer replaced..


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

I'll second that you most likely need a new chain....possibly cassette and maybe toss in a new.chainring or three.

Also.....
Check that your skewer springs are installed in the proper orientation. 
The larger end should be facing out with the smaller end facing the wheel.
If one is backwards it can make the wheel sit crooked in the dropouts.
If both are backwards the wheel won't have enough clamping force to stay on the bike. 
When they are on wrong there is not enough room for the axle to sit flush in the dropout.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

The springs are correct. I'll double check with the LBS about the new chain and cassette..


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

All of the suggestios may be dead on, but it's impossible to know without checking it out. Hopefully, your LBS won't 'take you for a ride'. If you ride regularly, three years would be a long time for a chain, rings, and cassette, but if you don't ride all that often, it could easily be OK with a little prudent adjusting.

That noise you describe could be may things. One of the things I have not seen mentioned yet is to watch as the chain comes off of the granny ring in front. If the chain looks like it is bouncing as it comes off the bottom of the chainring, it could be a worn granny gear. If it is, you'll likely need to replace the chain at the same time, not to mention the cassette. 

Also make sure the chain isn't tickling the front derailleur cage as that will also make some noise. You might try to see if it makes the noise all the time, or only in certain gear combinations. That will help you isolate the cause of the noise. 

Your concern about a noisy drivetrain is valid as a smooth running, well lubricated drive train should run fairly quiet.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Ok, I am sure it is the chain now, because I saw a video on youtube, where you put the chain on the largest chainring, and if you can lift the chain off and expose a tooth from the chainring, you need to replace the chain. I could quite easily expose a tooth, but that is the same with my other (old) bike which is running perfect. 

I am considering buying a new cassette, chain and shifters (need new ones), so will change the whole thing to 9 speed. The derailleur is a Shimano Deore LX, and I will probably get Deore shifters as well. 
Will the 9 speed cassette fit on my current 8 speed setup?

That should hopefully solve the problems...

I have adjusted everything many times, and have successfully adjusted on other bikes also. The 'rough' feel when riding is quite weird. You can't hear/feel it 'clicking' when the bike is upside down, but only when you ride it slowly, you can feel the 'bumpyness' (can't describe it any better ) of the whole drive train.

- I am sure it is the chain because it has probably been stretched and very loose.... It has broken once also. This also relates to the occasional problem when the chains falls off on small jumps, when shifting up, the chain gets stuck and you need to pedal backwards until it goes down again, then re-shift. 

For now I will buy a new chain, then upgrade the rest later (week or 2) ; hopefully the 9 speed chain will work alright with the 8 speed setup...


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Just noticed there is a sale on at Torpedo7 (NZ bike shop online). They have a SRAM PG-950 Cassette for $30 and a KMC Z 99 chain for $25. Should I buy them? Sale ends tomorrow...


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

bikeman1 said:


> Just noticed there is a sale on at Torpedo7 (NZ bike shop online). They have a SRAM PG-950 Cassette for $30 and a KMC Z 99 chain for $25. Should I buy them? Sale ends tomorrow...


If your chain is that worn, you won't be able to ride your bike if you just replace one. Buy both, and plan on buying at least one chainring if not two.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> If your chain is that worn, you won't be able to ride your bike if you just replace one. Buy both, and plan on buying at least one chainring if not two.


What do you mean buy both? Buy the cassette and the chain?


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## GMF (Jan 10, 2004)

A more quantifiable measure of chain "stretch" is to measure a 12" length of it. The pins are 1/2" center to center. If the 12" length actually measures anything more than 12 1/8", your chain is considered "stretched" and in need of replacement.
The concern with an overly stretched chain is that it wears a different profile into the gears (they are designed with a 1/2" pin pitch). This problem is particularly bad in the smaller cogs in back. 
If you put the new chain on the old gears, a couple things can happen:
1) premature wear on the chain causing it to wear out more quickly
2) the chain skipping teeth and making the bike generally unpleasant to ride

Measure the chain - chances are it is well past the 12 1/8" measurement. It is recommended to buy both the chain and cassette (as has been mentioned already), but keep an eye on those chainrings, too. Unless really bad, chainrings usually aren't so big of a problem. If you are strapped for cash, replace just the chain first and see if it skips. If so, bite the bullet and get a cassette, too.

Good luck,
-Damon


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

The chain has stretched so I will order the 9 speed cassette and chain. . Hopefully the setup will work with my 8 speed shifters for now. I wil just use the limit screws to make it not shift into the last cog.


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## GMF (Jan 10, 2004)

No, it will not. 

You will also need 9sp shifters to go with that 9sp cassette. Going to 9sp is a pretty big change due to the narrower chain. It should really be a full drivetrain swap due to narrower cogs and chainrings and chain, not to mention swapping the shifter. You'd be able to get by with the derailleurs, though, but even then, the 9sp stuff will work a bit better.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

GMF said:


> No, it will not.
> 
> You will also need 9sp shifters to go with that 9sp cassette.


Yep, plus if your chain is that worn the new chain won't mesh with the worn out chainring(s). If you just use your middle ring then you just need to replace the middle ring. But if you use both the middle and small chainrings then you're going to need to replace both of those. I've never seen a big ring need to be replaced due to chain wear and I've seen some really badly worn rings.

If you don't replace your chain before it becomes stretched then you can usually prolong the need to buy cassettes and chainrings. But if you wait until the chain is stretched (which I presume you did) then you need to replace the entire drivetrain as a set.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I was riding standing up once putting decent amount of pressure on the pedals, and suddenly the chain slipped and I went onto the frame (ggrrr,that hurt  )

The chainrings look fine just like this picture : http://www.pricepoint.com/images/styleImages/D_080 BLAMV5.jpg

The teeth aren't pointed either. The drive train is getting worse by the day (just commuting). Today, I flip the bike upside down, and when you move the pedals, you can just hear it clicking and it's really not pleasant. The new chain and cassette will be here by tomorrow, and ill swap it round on friday or saturday. I'll just use gear 9 on cassette and control gears using the 3 speed shifter until I get the new shifters.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

bikeman1 said:


> I was riding standing up once putting decent amount of pressure on the pedals, and suddenly the chain slipped and I went onto the frame (ggrrr,that hurt  )
> 
> The chainrings look fine just like this picture : http://www.pricepoint.com/images/styleImages/D_080 BLAMV5.jpg
> 
> The teeth aren't pointed either. The drive train is getting worse by the day (just commuting). Today, I flip the bike upside down, and when you move the pedals, you can just hear it clicking and it's really not pleasant. The new chain and cassette will be here by tomorrow, and ill swap it round on friday or saturday. I'll just use gear 9 on cassette and control gears using the 3 speed shifter until I get the new shifters.


Your chain is slipping with a worn drivetrain, you have no hope of keeping your chainrings with your new chain. Get ordering.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

These are some pics. Do you still think the chain rings need replacing? Or should I try it without new chainrings then buy new ones if needed...?

Thanks.


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## limzhong (Nov 2, 2011)

it is a bit hard to tell from those pics, best method is to measure the pins as some of ther above posts have mentioned. as for teeth or cogs/chainrings. some of the teeth are intentionally longer/shorter/more curved than others, figures into manufacturer's design. i personally have no idea on how to read chainring wear, maybe a wiser soul can shed some light

best bet is to bring your bike to your lbs for a more educated diagnosis.

also, personally i think chain lube makes a huge difference in terms of noise to me. i much much prefer finish line lubes to white lightning. drive train makes a lot more noise with white lightning than with finish line lubes. just my personal experience


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

bikeman1 said:


> These are some pics. Do you still think the chain rings need replacing? Or should I try it without new chainrings then buy new ones if needed...?
> 
> Thanks.


The answer won't change the more times you ask the question. But you obviously don't care to listen to advice so try it yourself.


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## GMF (Jan 10, 2004)

bikeman1 said:


> These are some pics. Do you still think the chain rings need replacing? Or should I try it without new chainrings then buy new ones if needed...?


My personal opinion is that while the teeth are slightly hooked/shark fin shaped, I would start by just using them and be very critical of how the gears are meshing in the front. Those look like steel chainrings, and if they are, they can take a lot of abuse and neglect and keep on working just fine.

Good luck, and hopefully those shifters will come soon.


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## IntensevCare (Nov 24, 2004)

I have had a surprising number of riders just need lube to quiet these symptoms. The tiniest amount of lube is nescessary every ride.


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## xx Hedgehog xx (May 7, 2010)

If you cassette is moving from side to side, tighten the lockring! On my previous Heckler with a shimano XT cassette the lockring would work itself loose every couple of months. This caused a "clang" sound whenever I put down power after coasting or putting down less power for a while. Just my .02.


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## Alkoholger (Nov 2, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> I was riding standing up once putting decent amount of pressure on the pedals, and suddenly the chain slipped and I went onto the frame (ggrrr,that hurt  )
> 
> The chainrings look fine just like this picture : http://www.pricepoint.com/images/styleImages/D_080 BLAMV5.jpg
> 
> The teeth aren't pointed either. The drive train is getting worse by the day (just commuting). Today, I flip the bike upside down, and when you move the pedals, you can just hear it clicking and it's really not pleasant. The new chain and cassette will be here by tomorrow, and ill swap it round on friday or saturday. I'll just use gear 9 on cassette and control gears using the 3 speed shifter until I get the new shifters.


Check the rear derailleurs allignment. If the drop is bent you will have problems like your having now.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Finally replaced cassette and chain.. Should I get Shimano Deore or Shimano Deore LX or Shimano Deore SLX or Shimano Deore XT? Those are the ones up for auction. Is it worth extra to go with Shimano Deore XT or SLX compared with Deore and LX? 

Also I had to go to the bike shop to get the chain broken (no chain tool). I went and said can you break the chain to appropriate length and install it. Picked up the next day (They said they can't do workshop on Saturday's -- Rubbish, isn't it?) and got home and found they just put the new chain on with the master link without even breaking it. (I didn't pick it up). Take it back, and they break it this time, and try it out. It is working quite normal, but it seems that it needs to be a bit shorter. When in 9x1, the chain is nearly rubbing the frame - around a 2mm space between chain and frame. When in 3x1, I did the check where you are not mean to be able to form a 'Z' with the chain, and was able to do so very easily, meaning more links could be taken out. I tried this on another bike, and it was impossible for me to do so. 

The bike shop charged $15 to just break the chain. Luckily I knew someone there, so he did it for $5. Still quite disappointing that they didn't have the common sense to do it right the first time and that they charged so much to take a rivet out of a chain. I don't even think they are qualified if they can't break a chain to correct length.

So does the chain need further links taken out? Will it improve the shifting/performance of the drivetrain?

BTW, the resistance while peddling and all the other problems I was having have gone after replacing the cassette and chain.


Picture of the der in 3x1 :


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## Chazistic (Dec 12, 2011)

My friend has one of these... not really the best of his lot


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Chazistic said:


> My friend has one of these... not really the best of his lot


Do you mean the bike?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Bikeman1, depending on how much your old chain was worn (and it was probably quite worn) it can still work with a worn chain ring without any slipping or shifting problems. *However*, the worn chain ring will greatly accelerate how fast the new chain wears, and if you don't catch it in time, the worn chain will eat your cassette again.

The various parts of your drive train wear together, which is why everyone was recommending your replace your chain ring as well. By trying to save $25, you're going to quickly waste the $100 you just put into your bike.

Learn how to monitor your chain for wear. As mentioned above, measure 12 links of the chain; it should measure exactly 12". As it wears that measurement will slowly get longer. The chain should be replaced when your measurement hits 12 1/16", since at that point no damage has been done to the chain ring or cassettes.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

and buy a chain tool.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I am going to get a new chain ring (found that the 2nd one is bent) , just a matter of getting the tools. Is the chain length correct which was dOne by the lbs?


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Got the tools, and need to get a chainring now. Should I replace the lot or just the one I use most (middle)?

I also found the chain is too long, so I need to get it broken again - Got a chaintool now, so I can do that. (Rubbish bike shop don't even know how to measure a chain). When in 9x1, then chain rubs together at the rear der (2 jockey wheels.)


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

bikeman1 said:


> Got the tools, and need to get a chainring now. Should I replace the lot or just the one I use most (middle)?
> 
> I also found the chain is too long, so I need to get it broken again - Got a chaintool now, so I can do that. (Rubbish bike shop don't even know how to measure a chain). When in 9x1, then chain rubs together at the rear der (2 jockey wheels.)


Well, you shouldn't be in that gear ever. What's the chain length on 1x3 (the big-big combo)? If you have a Megarange cassette then the shop probably sized it to that combo to keep the chain length from ripping your derailleur off.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I know I shouldn't be in that gear but it shouldn't rub anyway. I posted a pic of the der in 3x1 and I can easily take links out - and it is not mega range where my other bike is mega range and the chain is very tight on 3x1 - it also runs smoother. I heard you have to make the chain as short as possible without problems so shifting is best which seems the case on the other bike.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

bikeman1 said:


> I know I shouldn't be in that gear but it shouldn't rub anyway. I posted a pic of the der in 3x1 and I can easily take links out - and it is not mega range where my other bike is mega range and the chain is very tight on 3x1 - it also runs smoother. I heard you have to make the chain as short as possible without problems so shifting is best which seems the case on the other bike.


I always size my chain in 3x9 (8,7,10... whatever the highest is). If the jockey pulleys are line up vertically then you're good to go.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Okay, I'll try make them vertical - I have to remove like 4 links, maybe that will fix everything.


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

Get one of these. I got mine at REI for like $10. It's easier than measuring and fine for quick tests periodically. Has 2 sides... one measures for up to .75% wear, which usually means you can replace your chain but keep the cassette. The other side shows more severe wear, which means you should replace the chain and the cassette.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Good idea, might get one of those.

I have 2 auctions on this site for what to choose for shifters.

1) Shimano derailleurs | Trade Me

2) Shimano XT Shifters 9 Speed | Trade Me

Which one should I get? Are the Deore shifters going to be better than my current EF50's or is it best to just get the XT's. The first auction comes with a XT rear der and front der. The second is just the XT shifters.

I already have an LX rear der and Acera front der.


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

Not a bad price right now on the package deal. The price is probably going to go up, though. The only real value there is the XT rear derailleur... one front der. is as good as the next one. XT shifters are noticeably more crisp than Deore/SLX. 

Also, one of the biggest advantage of XT and XTR is that they are dual-position. This is a big deal if you want to mount your brakes inboard, which a lot of people prefer for brake lever positioning. I don't think it's possible with the Deore shifters because the housing and/or panel will get in the way.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

The buy now on the first package was $80, so I may get it if it goes for around $70ish. Otherwise i'll take the XT's. Another pair of XT's recently went for $46!


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

GotoDengo said:


> Get one of these. I got mine at REI for like $10. It's easier than measuring and fine for quick tests periodically. Has 2 sides... one measures for up to .75% wear, which usually means you can replace your chain but keep the cassette. The other side shows more severe wear, which means you should replace the chain and the cassette.


I don't like that tool. Even when you hit the 0.75% side you've already worn into the chain ring and cassette. At that point the other side is just redundant.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I was looking for some chainrings, but they all seem to be different sizes... What do I need for my crank? 

TRUVATIV FIVE-D 

How do I know if it is the first , second, or third chain ring?


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

Chainrings don't necessarily need to be replaced when installing new chain/cassette, but after 3 years it's probably a good idea. Most people spend the majority of their time in the middle chainring, so unless you spent a lot of time in your granny or the big ring, the middle is probably the only one that needs replacing. 

Just count the number of teeth in your middle ring and order that size chainring. 

Do you have all the tools, btw? Crank-puller, chain-whip, cassette tool, chain-breaker (unless you have powerlink-type connector). If you're gonna buy stuff, might as well save on shipping maybe.


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

bad mechanic said:


> I don't like that tool. Even when you hit the 0.75% side you've already worn into the chain ring and cassette. At that point the other side is just redundant.


Actually it starts dropping in around .5%... Would you replace the cassette at that point?

I check mine around every 3rd ride now, after getting lazy and having to shell out for a new cassette. I could see the issue where, if it drops in, you couldn't be sure whether it was more towards the .5% range (which maybe is fine to replace the chain only?) or more towards .75% which warrants cassette replacement... but for me, I use this tool a lot more than I could be bothered to break out a measuring tape. If it drops in, I can always use the measuring tape as a more precise gauge whether to replace the cassette.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

GotoDengo said:


> Actually it starts dropping in around .5%... Would you replace the cassette at that point?
> 
> I check mine around every 3rd ride now, after getting lazy and having to shell out for a new cassette. I could see the issue where, if it drops in, you couldn't be sure whether it was more towards the .5% range (which maybe is fine to replace the chain only?) or more towards .75% which warrants cassette replacement... but for me, I use this tool a lot more than I could be bothered to break out a measuring tape. If it drops in, I can always use the measuring tape as a more precise gauge whether to replace the cassette.


I don't like that particular gauge either, but I dislike it due to the fact that you can force the measurement and bend the pins. I use the Rohloff and replace before the chain can drop to the .75% point. I believe that would be a safe bet for the Park checker as well. I have found that if you replace the chain before the .75% point that you can almost always get away with a chain only replacement. If you wait until the 1% then you're probably well inside drivetrain replacement.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Ordered a toolkit for bikes including everything you need to service your bike. I will count the number of chainrings also. And I need to take out 4 whole links more than what the bike shop did.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Broken the chain to proper length now. And now found that my rear hanger is now bent. !%*$#@!
Tried to bend it back, seemed straight, then after installing, everything is still not aligned at the bottom, especially when in lower gears at rear. Can it be rebent or am I better off buying a new one? Shifters should be here tomorrow or day after. I got the Shimano XT's for $70.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

bikeman1 said:


> Broken the chain to proper length now. And now found that my rear hanger is now bent. !%*$#@!
> Tried to bend it back, seemed straight, then after installing, everything is still not aligned at the bottom, especially when in lower gears at rear. Can it be rebent or am I better off buying a new one? Shifters should be here tomorrow or day after. I got the Shimano XT's for $70.


Buy this: Park Tool DAG-2 Derailleur Hanger Alignment Guage at Price Point

Or take it to the shop. Your derailleur cage could be bent as well, so watch out for that.


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## utopic (Dec 20, 2011)

I'd take the bike to the shop for a general check... There might be some other maintenance needed...


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

For derailleur hangers I'll shift into a gear where the cage is pointed down, then I'll put an allen key into the derailleur's mounting bolt. I'll then stand behind the bike and use the allen to twist the derailleur until the cage is in line with the frame.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I took the der off and it doesnt seem bent. I'll try bend it back with the Allen key


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

bikeman1 said:


> I took the der off and it doesnt seem bent. I'll try bend it back with the Allen key


You're not bending the derailleur when you do that, you're bending the hanger it's attached to.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Sorry I meant bend the hanger back with the Allen key.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Got the new der hanger and everything is pretty good at the moment. I think all it needs is a good tune up, because the chain sometime touches the front der cage, and when in gear 8 or 9, it feels quite rough when peddling. Also when I pedal backwards on some gears (I know there is no point ) the chain falls off the cassette and chainrings. What could be the cause of this?

ps. Also replaced a chainring 

Thanks everyone.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Anyone know why the chain is 'rough' only in gear 8 and 9? (Small cogs)


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

bikeman1 said:


> Anyone know why the chain is 'rough' only in gear 8 and 9? (Small cogs)


Can you define "rough"?

At this point, you've replaced the chain, cassette, and a chainring; is that correct?


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

Did you reset the limit screws? You were futzing with them before you replaced the rings.

Are the issues when in the ring(s) you replaced?


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

The rough feeling is like the chain is rubbing against the frame even though it's not. It feels like something is holding on to the chain. The issue were still there before the ring was replaced. I have done the low limit screw and the high. I have played with the h screw but it's still bad in 7/8. 

I have replaced the chain, cassette, hanger, chainring, shifters.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

The low and high screws only adjust the ultimate range of the derailleur. In other words, the only adjust how far down it can go, and how far up it can go. They won't do anything for anything in between. To adjust those those gears you need to adjust the cable tension using the barrel adjuster. Here's more information:
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Rear Derailler Adjustments (derailleur)

Also, when you run the pedals backwards, if the chain is cross geared it's common for it to skip. The drivetrain isn't designed to be run backwards like that.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I have tried to adjust using the barrel also. They shift down fine, but don't ride smoothly, you feel resistance. When in gear 3 at front, and 4 at back, if I pedal backwards the chain will fall off the cassette and chainring.. It is not cross-chained.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Dude, stop turning the pedals backwards! The drivetrain isn't designed for that.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I only turn backwards to get ready when about to race, to get in right position. But it shouldnt do that anyway?!?


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## NotQuiteClimbing (Jul 26, 2010)

Clean and oil the chain?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk


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## GMF (Jan 10, 2004)

The chain feeling rough in the small cassette cogs is not terribly unusual. The chain enters the cassette at more of an extreme angle, and is more likely to bump and roll its way into position than in the larger cogs where it is more of a straight shot (the amount the chain needs to pivot to be seated).
Pedalling backwards and the chain falling off is very likely an unrelated issue - possibly a dragging freehub, or some other issue, and IMO, should not be combined with the rough feeling. A picture or video of what is going on as the chain falls off would help. If it is the freehub (the part that goes click in the rear hub) dragging, you'll see a lot of slack in the top of the chain as it jumps off the gears. It is difficult to diagnose with the info you have provided, though.

Good luck,
-Damon


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Chain is new and oiled. It's just weird not being able to ride smoothly in the small cogs. Would pics help? Might have to check with the bike shop.


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## ChasingTheSun (Feb 12, 2012)

...


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

no amount of photos is going to help here. if you want help from us, try posting a video. or take it to a bike mechanic. it sounds like at least one of the shops you took it too is run by muppets.

fyi, most bike shops don't do much labor on Saturdays, there's just not enough time because they are selling many bikes and doing last-minute adjustments on the new bikes going out the door.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

It's working "pretty" good now, It was just the front der. rubbing like crazy. It seems to be broken or something, the limit screws don't seem to do anything, so I just keep it on 3 in the front and just use 5,6,7 in the back until I get it fixed. Not much time at the moment


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

The limit screws only adjust the ultimate low and ultimate high position of the derailleur. So the L screw only has any effect in the small ring, the H screw only has any effect in the big ring, and neither have any effect in the middle ring. Most of your adjustment comes from the barrel screw on the front shifter. You may want to hit up the Park Tool website and read through their article on adjusting your front derailleur.


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## xenon (Apr 16, 2007)

It may be the FD placement. The derailleur's cage should be parallel to the rings. When the derailleur is in the middle ring, the outer cheek of the cage should be 1-2 mm. above the teeth of the big ring. A very simple adjustment, you only need a 5 mm. hex wrench and a bit of patience. 
As to the hanger alignment (I noticed a mention of this somewhere in the thread), I remove the RD, hold the hanger and the dropout together with a vice grip (to avoid putting load on the frame) and pull the hanger with an adjustable wrench.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

^^ Forgot about the placement of the front der. I got a new hanger so the rear should be good. The chain rubs the cage in the middle ring, so must be the placement of the der.


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