# Suspension linkage design. Who’s the best?



## 1lawnman (Oct 3, 2013)

Just did a full tear down with cleaning re grease and torque on my Ibis Ripley. Pretty straight forward with some interesting design details on how the actual pivot points seal and the hardware holding it all together. So I got to thinking in your experience what manufactures have some of the best and easiest pivots points to service and disassemble and reassemble??


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## Riled (May 1, 2012)

I would add into the Ibis bucket even beyond the Ripley. I have a Mojo 4 and I was surprised at the pivot maintenance strategy for that. I'm pretty sure it's different from the Ripley. 

First the lower suspension link is on bushings that are supposed to be good for the lifetime (and warrantied as such). The only bearings are 4 in the upper suspension link, and instead of replacing the bearings you just order a new link and it has new bearings already pressed in. The entire link is about $55 which is maybe $20 more than the bearings alone, but you don't need the special tools.

I just went through the bearing maintenance and like I said I was surprised. It seems a good way to go, but feels wasteful even if it is just a little aluminum link. I plan on trying to press new bearings into my old link, but notice that there appears be a metal lip on one side of the holes holding each bearing in. I'm thinking that lip may make it difficult if not impossible to remove the bearings, which may be why they want to just send a whole link.

I don't have experience with changing bearings, much less experience in this specific case. I'm wondering if anyone else has dealt with this particular link setup, or getting bearings out with a lip on one side. I suspect the Ibis HD5 may have a similar suspension link design.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Santa Cruz. None of the bearings are pressed into the frame but instead the replaceable alloy linkage.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Riled said:


> I would add into the Ibis bucket even beyond the Ripley. I have a Mojo 4 and I was surprised at the pivot maintenance strategy for that. I'm pretty sure it's different from the Ripley.
> 
> First the lower suspension link is on bushings that are supposed to be good for the lifetime (and warrantied as such). The only bearings are 4 in the upper suspension link, and instead of replacing the bearings you just order a new link and it has new bearings already pressed in. The entire link is about $55 which is maybe $20 more than the bearings alone, but you don't need the special tools.
> 
> ...


You can peel the seals on the bearings and repack with grease to extend life.


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## LVLBTY (Jul 15, 2020)

Had no issues replacing the bearings on my V1 Switchblade.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Cerberus75 said:


> You can peel the seals on the bearings and repack with grease to extend life.


I disagree, bearings, races, oxidize and the wear of the bearings grinds small metal particles. You have to purge grease to remove these, not just pack it, and even then, the tolerances get looser and looser until it starts self destructing much faster from having all the metal gunk increasing the wear. For sure, properly purging and replacing grease helps, but that's different than just packing and has to be done before the process has gone too far. Purging and packing grease is bearing maint 101 for bearings you can do that with. Ever dealt with heavy equipment, that's what you do.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

And yes, this is an area where it becomes obvious whether the manufacturer just cares about selling bikes, or making a quality product. Ease of bearing removal/installation is key.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

2008 Turner Sultan. Igus bushings with grease ports at every pivot. 14 years old and I've only had to overhaul it once. Its just one bike in my stable but it still sees about 1500 miles per year.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

2006 Ventana with the quad bearing option. Tens of thousands of miles, never serviced and buttery smooth when I cycle the rear end.


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## TheBossOfBread (Aug 7, 2021)

My bike is pretty cool. You hold a nut from one side with a wrench and then at the same time put a torx bit through the same side into the end of the bolt and turn clockwise and out it comes. Sunn charger


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## Mac_89 (Mar 24, 2021)

Santa Cruz are really easy to work on, the grease nipple on the lower linkage is a nice touch and you get free bearings for life.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Jayem said:


> I disagree, bearings, races, oxidize and the wear of the bearings grinds small metal particles. You have to purge grease to remove these, not just pack it, and even then, the tolerances get looser and looser until it starts self destructing much faster from having all the metal gunk increasing the wear. For sure, properly purging and replacing grease helps, but that's different than just packing and has to be done before the process has gone too far. Purging and packing grease is bearing maint 101 for bearings you can do that with. Ever dealt with heavy equipment, that's what you do.


I forgot to mention cleaning first. Flush,dry repack.


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## the-ninth (Nov 1, 2013)

RAAW puts focus on long bearing life and easy maintenance, large bearings, sealing caps on top, only one size except main pivot, and easily replaceable. Bearings and all other pivot hardware is easily available via their webshop.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Well, absolutely NOT the new Enduro. IMO it has some issues with bearing alignment in the shock linkage, which loads the shock sideways and may have an effect on the ride quality. 

However I think most bikes these days are pretty reliable, frames used to go through bearings regularly.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

davec113 said:


> However I think most bikes these days are pretty reliable, frames used to go through bearings regularly.


Would that be because of bad frame alignment? I saw a Vorsprung video where the guy says that he does not like trunnion mounts on rear shock because it can accelerate the bearing wear (or something of that nature) from poorly aligned frames.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

so santa crus is best?


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Stewiewin said:


> so santa crus is best?


Yes


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

The question appears to be related specifically to quality and ease of maintenance. By that metric, I think Santa Cruz wins. And that’s before you consider the free bearings thing.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Jayem said:


> I disagree, bearings, races, oxidize and the wear of the bearings grinds small metal particles. You have to purge grease to remove these, not just pack it, and even then, the tolerances get looser and looser until it starts self destructing much faster from having all the metal gunk increasing the wear. For sure, properly purging and replacing grease helps, but that's different than just packing and has to be done before the process has gone too far. Purging and packing grease is bearing maint 101 for bearings you can do that with. Ever dealt with heavy equipment, that's what you do.


Brakleen is your friend... 
Metal paticulate? Low quality bearings or something's going away in there! Folks need to think of the original design purpose that made these bearings available to us in the first place! Like high load, stupid high rpm usage within a silly high temperature environment is the most common reason. 
Use in bicycle applications, they still require some love. Hell, I still have some in service coming up on 40 years.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> Brakleen is your friend...
> Metal paticulate? Low quality bearings or something's going away in there! Folks need to think of the original design purpose that made these bearings available to us in the first place! Like high load, stupid high rpm usage within a silly high temperature environment is the most common reason.
> Use in bicycle applications, they still require some love. Hell, I still have some in service coming up on 40 years.


True and there sometimes isn't enough grease for low speed movements.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Cerberus75 said:


> True and there sometimes isn't enough grease for low speed movements.


Have a look at tensioner pulleys and idler pulleys under most hoods... Those little bastards are always dry. I clean and lubricate them when I change a serpentine for a customer. Most of the time, there is just dried grease residue and a cleaning and lube is all that is needed. Then, there is the occasional failed unit...

The typical bearings used on bicycles can be sourced readily with the numbers on them since they are made to a set of specifications for that part number. Going outside of the bicycle industry nets a lower cost more often than not. Timken, SKF, NMB are just a few of the common suppliers that stock them.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

I agree on Santa Cruz. I don't own one, but if I had to buy one current mainstream FS to buy and keep for a very very long time it just might be a Tallboy. As much as I think there are more enjoyable bikes to ride, including those I own, I believe SC bikes are well designed and well built.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I’ve been hit and miss on he latest gen of SC bikes. The Tallboy, though, is a straight ripper. Fun bike.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

I think Ibis has it pretty dialed in for owner friendly design. That link kit includes all the hardware for $55. New forged link, 4 preinstalled bearings, and the 4 special aluminum bolts. Super easy to change out. That is every bearing in the frame. Everything else is Igus bushings that rotate very little and are quite durable. The 4 big ones in the lower pivot have a lifetime warranty. The 2 small clevis bushings are simple, rarely need attention and the parts are dirt cheap.

Current gen Santa Cruz bikes are certainly nice, and free bearings for life are cool, but SC uses at least twice as many and you need to replace them. For those people that don't do their own work, and some people that usually do their own maintenance don't like to change bearings, what does that service cost?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

The other thing about bearings, besides being easy to access or having grease-ports, is that they are easily attainable, that you aren't hinging on bike company producing or having a line on some specialty size. It needs to be a commonly available size you can easily order from a bearing supplier, like qualitybearingsonline.com

Hardware is sometimes an issue too, fancy aluminum bolts or some of those giant aluminum torque bolts with relatively tiny torque fittings (even T45s) are a pain in the ass to work with and the hardware does wear out over time IME, but slower than the shock bushings obviously. Those giant pivot bolts have a ton of surface area and with or without loc-tite they can be impossible to remove without rounding out the soft aluminum interface, torx or not, the size of the torx is just too small relative to the surface area of the threads, so you never have enough leverage to properly loosen or tighten. Just some basic short steel bolts is the best IME. Long bolts tend to bend easily, no matter the material. Pivot bolts need to be easy to remove/install.


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## Mac_89 (Mar 24, 2021)

Velodonata said:


> I think Ibis has it pretty dialed in for owner friendly design. That link kit includes all the hardware for $55. New forged link, 4 preinstalled bearings, and the 4 special aluminum bolts. Super easy to change out. That is every bearing in the frame. Everything else is Igus bushings that rotate very little and are quite durable. The 4 big ones in the lower pivot have a lifetime warranty. The 2 small clevis bushings are simple, rarely need attention and the parts are dirt cheap.
> 
> Current gen Santa Cruz bikes are certainly nice, and free bearings for life are cool, but SC uses at least twice as many and you need to replace them. For those people that don't do their own work, and some people that usually do their own maintenance don't like to change bearings, what does that service cost?


My LBS do a full bearing swap on a SC for about £80 if you wheel the bike in. Bring them the links and new bearings and it’s £40.

SC does sell tools for them but you can get them or make them cheaper.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

My current Turner 5-Spot frame was my primary ride for 6 years and the bushings are all original. Inject lube through the zerk fittings every so often, disassemble and clean about every other year (very easy to do) and that’s about it.

Still smooth, still no play.


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## Igotsoul4u (May 11, 2019)

How often do your really need to do this? Sometimes I pull stuff apart just to find I really didn't need to clean anything.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Igotsoul4u said:


> How often do your really need to do this? Sometimes I pull stuff apart just to find I really didn't need to clean anything.


Depends on the suspension design and conditions you ride in.

If they are sealed bearings I just leave them be until there is some play and then replace them.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stewiewin said:


> so santa crus is best?


And potentially Rocky Mountain


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

Brad said:


> And potentially Rocky Mountain


what about canyon?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stewiewin said:


> what about canyon?


Their linkage is nice but the pivots are conventional bearings and these get gritty pretty quickly like most bikes. Rocky uses adjustable bushings that are serviceable


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

umm any Orange single pivot is perhaps the easiest hands down


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

Brad said:


> Their linkage is nice but the pivots are conventional bearings and these get gritty pretty quickly like most bikes. Rocky uses adjustable bushings that are serviceable


ty


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Here I thought this was about riding and what worked best. I thought Yeti and Evil had this covered.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

My cheap chiner 29er had open bearings, no seals, just metal plates, after 1100 miles and 100,000 feet climbing I tore it down, cleaned and regreased with marine grease. I should have installed sealed bearings, but they were all in perfect shape. Now its 3 years old and still working perfect.


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