# User Review: Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*First Ride; Initial first impression;*

I received the BT40S just before leaving for work yesterday. Today I had some good weather so I put the lamp on my bars and took off for a test run.

The BT40S I found to be an interesting lamp. I'll speak more about the setup later but first I want to talk about the ride. Starting temperature for the ride was about 70°F. The 40S is much smaller than I expected, slightly smaller than a typical Tri-clone lamp. Being smaller than expected I was a little worried about over heating. The lamp did get slightly warm to the touch on the higher modes but over all was not a problem. The lamp is set-up with 4-neutral XP-G2 Cree LEDs.

I was pleasantly surprised that the output and beam pattern were quite useable regardless of mode being used. The lamp ( with standard optic ) throws out a medium wide beam pattern that expands the farther out it goes. Because of this the throw suffers a little but not to the point of being unusable. In all I had a very pleasant ride and found I could actual ride almost anything in the lowest mode with no problems unless I really began to ride faster. With the standard optics the beam pattern shines everything very well close to the bike. Distance throw on low is maybe 40-50 feet depending on terrain. The lighter the trail surface the more the light would carry. Over all I was very please with the low mode, that too was unexpected ( Note* I did try the flood optic and yes it supplies a very massive flood beam. No doubt some may like that but sadly it absolutely kills the throw which IMO makes it unusable. )

Distance viewing with the BT40S is a little different than the other bike lamps I have. I have yet to measure the useable distance throw but judging from the initial trail ride and the test I did on a soccer field later after the ride, I would think about 150ft max ( on high ). While this is not near as far as my Gloworms or KD2 lamp can throw it is still enough for general bar use IMO. I also found the lamp worked very well with my other helmet lamp I was using ( SSX3-neutral ). With both lamps on low I could ride almost anything and had no problems seeing, even when riding fast.

The two higher modes of the BT40S ( the lamp has four modes ) were of course better for seeing things a little farther out. During the ride when I used my SSX3 ( on helmet ) I found the two beam patterns complemented each other very well. So much for the initial ride. I'll follow up with more ride reports as I go. As with all my reviews I comment on the things I notice as I go along.

Now a little more about about the BT40S lamp itself. In this section I'll talk about the good and the not so good. The lamp has a large back section where the mode buttons are. Yes, I said "buttons" with an s. Some people will like this type of switch but I've not yet made a decision on it. Press any button and the lamp comes on. The upper button moves the lamp to lower mode levels, the lower button move the modes to upper levels. For the most part I had no problem working the buttons but it does take getting used to.

I did have to do something about the translucent plastic piece that covers the rear buttons. When you turn the lamp on a very bright green voltage indicator illuminates the entire back of the lamp. This I found not to be to my liking. Before leaving for the ride I just cut out a round piece of black duct tape and placed it in the middle, leaving just a small illuminated edge which turned out to work very well for me. Without doing that I would of had WAY too much light shining in my face from the voltage indicators. After the quick fix all worked well and I had no problems seeing or working with the lamp while riding. I'm not completely sold on this two-part UP/Down switch but it worked fine and as such I'll not count it as a negative.

Well, every lamp has some flaws and the BT40S is no exception to the rule. The 40S comes with two sets of optics. The standard and the flood. When I took the retaining ring off the front of the light to try the flood optic I was not impressed with what I saw. First, the emitter board is only held down with a bit of thermal paste ( and the pressure from the quad-optic once installed ). Not a big problem as I see it but you do have to make sure to reposition the emitter board if it slides around while putting in the optics. I had no problem doing this and when finished I found that the lamp got warmer when on. No doubt the retaining ring needed to be tightened to make sure the board was getting better thermal contact.

Last but not least; _the biggest negative issue ( IMO ) is that the design of the front of the lamp doesn't seem to take much thought into preventing water ingress._
There is no O-ring at all toward the front of the lamp. That being the case I can see two places that water might be able to enter. . First, around the retaining ring and secondly where the ring contacts the plastic one piece quad optic. A flat good size O-ring might help the water around the optic but if it's too thick the retaining ring won't be able to completely seal. Sadly , the only fix I can see that might work is to use some kind of light grease or sealant to prevent water ingress. That said I've tried doing that to other lamps before without much success. Going forward, I have to try because otherwise I'd never use any lamp on my bars that I wasn't sure could handle a good rain. Hopefully someone else will have some ideas or perhaps the grease idea will be sufficient. It would be a shame to dismiss this lamp for such a problem. Later, I'll test the lamp for water ingress once I do something to fix the problem.



> *To whom it may concern;* This lamp was provided by Nitefighter ( free of charge ) for review purposes. I have no interest in selling Nitefighter or any other brand lamp. My intent is to do an honest user review of the product and give an honest opinion ( pro or con ) on the quality and usability of the product. Thank you. CAt


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Nice description Cat, thanks. 


Cat-man-do said:


> The upper button moves the lamp to lower mode levels, the lower button move the modes to upper levels. For the most part I had no problem working the buttons but it does take getting used to.


What if you open rear side and just rotate circuit inside for 180deg? It seems to me it is just wrongly assembled. Magicshine MJ-872 has it proper designed Up for increase and Down for decrease. I think BT40 should operates the same.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

ledoman said:


> What if you open rear side and just rotate circuit inside for 180deg? It seems to me it is just wrongly assembled. Magicshine MJ-872 has it proper designed Up for increase and Down for decrease. I think BT40 should operates the same.


Yes it is very easy for the circuit board to rotate along with the silicone boot during rear assembly. There is a white plastic/nylon retaining ring that presses against the back of the board; tamping it down tightly in place helps hold the board in position when you re-assemble the lamp. You will probably also have to keep a thumb on the boot too, in order to keep it from rotating out of 12:00/6:00 as you tighten the alloy end cap back on.









Yeah Cat I was surprised too at Garry Bunk's tear down of the BT40S showing there was no gasket or O-ring between the lens and retaining ring. Wonder whether the MagicShine or other clone version are similar in that regard. OTOH, one in my lamp is screwed down so tight, seriously doubt water could ever penetrate. Perhaps because the lens is frosted resin rather than glass it has enough give to be self-sealing or at least provide a highly water-resistant barrier.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

My thoughts too Andy on that seal against the optic. I doubt it's waterproof, but would expect it to be very water resistant. 

My switch came properly installed with upper button increasing and lower button decreasing. 

I agree with CAt on the battery indicator light being way too bright. This is evident in my beamshot pics. 

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

My concerns for waterproofing have diminished after a few cold to warm cycles with most of my lights causing condensation anyway. It seems almost impossible to keep moisture out altogether so as long as it's reasonably closed off its good enough for me. I'd like to see manufacturers begin to start potting the circuitry, though I guess it would make modding a bit tricky. The retaining ring on my BT40S was snugged pretty tight so I think that would suffice, otherwise a bit of grease would probably do the trick. It may be worth mentioning to Andy though, as it would likely only cost them a few pennies to implement


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Yes it is very easy for the circuit board to rotate along with the silicone boot during rear assembly. There is a white plastic/nylon retaining ring that presses against the back of the board; tamping it down tightly in place helps hold the board in position when you re-assemble the lamp. You will probably also have to keep a thumb on the boot too, in order to keep it from rotating out of 12:00/6:00 as you tighten the alloy end cap back on.
> 
> View attachment 982248
> 
> ...


About the position of the switch; I see it can be rotated. It took a couple tries to get it right. You just have to make sure you don't hit the board while removing the plastic ring. I also had to reposition the outer plastic membrane because it got out of alignment. No big deal though. Total process took about a 5 minutes. On a side note I like how tight the back of the lamp screws on to the rear. I can't see water getting anywhere inside the rear unless the rear membrane somehow cracks.

About the water resistance of the front area; Where the retaining ring contacts the plastic lens; I'm not convinced "tight" contact alone is enough to prevent leakage. No doubt a thin layer of light grease might add some insurance. Same for the threads on the front retaining ring. I'd just feel better if the compartment that holds the emitters/electronics were more isolated.

Not everyone rides in the rain but some people are die-hards that ride in all kinds of weather. Usually when I get caught in rain it is totally by accident...and as we all know weather can be unpredictable at times.

Going forward my gut tells me I need to do a good shower test on this lamp. If the light grease keeps out the water than I'll be sure to report that. Regardless, I don't feel this lamp should need to be modded OTB so perhaps I'll test it first "as is" just to see if it's worth the price. Personally I expect more quality and better features from any lamp that is a step above the "entry level" Chinese lamps that can be bought for $25-$30. This said if the BT40S doesn't perform well in a wet environment I will be disappointed and will need to point it out. In saying this I'm going to hold the BT40S to the same standard I would expect from a lamp like Magicshine, Xeccon or any other lamp in the same price range. More on this issue as I progress in the review.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice review cat!

I do have a question, the lamp head is the same price as about any other Chinese lighthead that's decent quality (yinding, solarstorms via GB) so I personally expect about the same. The "kit" to me seems questionable on price until pack is shown to be worth the extra vs other Chinese packs.

But that's my 2 cents im going off what lights ive tested vs what ive paid thus far.

And mine will finally be here I think tomorrow if not Tuesday at the latest (head was at a hub between me and Chicago as of Saturday night, headed my way)


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> About the water resistance of the front area; Where the retaining ring contacts the plastic lens; I'm not convinced "tight" contact alone is enough to prevent leakage. No doubt a thin layer of light grease might add some insurance. Same for the threads on the front retaining ring. I'd just feel better if the compartment that holds the emitters/electronics were more isolated.


NOOO, Cat, do NOT put any grease where it might make contact with the lens! Carclo specifically states their resin lenses are vulnerable to oils and should not even be touched with human hands or they could degrade. Dunno whether silicone lubricant might be of any benefit here but I still doubt the front of the BT40S will offer any less water resistance than other lamp heads. If you are all that concerned about water ingress the first place I'd recommend for improvement would be the cable hole under the screw mount, it does not appear to have a gasket. The fit is fairly tight so I'm not all that worried myself but can imagine with a good soaking water might be able to migrate into the lamp head through capillary action.









Anyway, hope you enjoy riding with the Nitefighter, Cat.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Good review Cat-man-do!

I have to question if it's worth the extra money when you can get this light for $15
USA Stealth Black 1600 LM 4 CREE XP G LED Bike Light Light Head Only 872 A | eBay

I know Garry compared the two light here
New cheap-o Chinese LED bike lights 2015 - Page 5- Mtbr.com

and he said the Nitefighter was superior. But I can't see myself spending the extra money on a Nitefighter.

The "[USA] Stealth Black" is obviously a clone of the Magishine 872. I bought mine about two years ago for around $32 and used it for 6 months before I moved on to other lights. I was ecstatic with the light at the time. My only other modern light at the time was an Magicshine 808E and I preferred the 872 clone because it just put out tons of light in broad flood. It's an awesome light. The major downside of the light that it doesn't have the super-long throw. Here's a thread were a couple of guys discussed the light
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/good-chinese-flood-bars-873174.html

The thing that bugs me about Nitefighter is that they have been around for at least two years and nobody ever posted anything about them. In fact there are only 6 threads with the name "Nitefighter" in the thread title. The oldest three threads (nearly two years ago) only have a total of three replies for all three threads. They were completely ignored! Plus the threads were started by someone appearing to be working for the company. In my opinion they were always too expensive and too unknown to make it worth a purchase. I never really trusted them, to be honest. In my opinion they sold copies of Magicshine lights at nearly the Magishine price so you might as well buy a Magicshine. Plus you can buy a Magicshine from Jim at action led who will give you excellent customer service as well as a warranty. The Nitefighter lights were always a clone light with twice the price.

Now there is a renewed interest in this brand. I guess because because they have dropped their prices. Was that it? Or is it marketing strategy 2.0? Maybe they were they just under-appreciated for the last two years? I don't know. I'm still skeptical.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Well, as far as the lighthead anyway. They were one of the first companies to offer NW from the factory which is a plus, and they also use the xp-g2 not the xp-g. So for an extra 15 dollars I feel that is worth it. As far as quality I don't have both but I do have an mj872 that I just need to get back from a friend to compare to


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

The Magicshine 872 also isn't without it's flaws. I remember in the main mtbr light shoot-out the light initially put out a great amount of light, but then stepped down by a huge a amount as it became hot and then would stay at that reduced output for the remainder of the run-time.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I liked mine, never ran it much without good airflow so I didn't have that issue, just some voltage sag/indicator light quirks. I wound up lending it to a friend who started night riding and need to get it back. I bought a pair of kd2's I plan of giving him instead


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So, initial thoughts on this light, IMPRESSED.

Found there is oring behind the optic. That's where the seal is. Ring pushes optic against it make case seal there.

Battery wire has rubber grommet at the case. I dont think it'd handle being submerged but waterproofing is better than/on par with yinding. 

And holy crap that's alotta light for a simple round head. I need to put it up against my ss x3. Still has a "spot" but its freaking NICE.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Actually I just checked mine and there is an o ring too. It stays on a lip in the housing and is black so it's easy to miss


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Yeah, I'm probably just being overly skeptical. $30 for a lighthead with upgraded emitters is a good deal. 

I wonder how well it throws compared to the yinding and solarstorms.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Throw isn't the best with either optic imo. It's seems to be better suited to the bars. I'll let Cat do his thing and elaborate more but I would imagine that they would do better to include a tighter optic instead of a super super flood and a normal flood


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Battery wire has rubber grommet at the case.


Thanks! I was wrong before but thrilled to see there actually is a grommet there, so perfectly set into the case it is almost invisible. So between that and the O-ring behind the optic, looks like the Nitefighter should live up to its declared specs after all. 

Glad to hear you are impressed with the lamp head, hope you get a lot of use out of it, tigris.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

manbeer said:


> Actually I just checked mine and there is an o ring too. It stays on a lip in the housing and is black so it's easy to miss


For the record, I knew about that O-ring. I didn't mention it because where it was mounted ( found mine down inside beyond the lip ) just didn't make any sense. When I first looked at it I didn't see how it could serve any purpose down inside the lamp. Maybe it's suppose to sit higher up on the lip and seal the underside of the optic. (?) I need to take another look at it. I figure even if I can position it to do that it still does nothing to prevent water from getting beyond the outer retaining ring. If water gets inside the ring there might be fogging of the optic if the emitter area isn't completely sealed off.

I haven't had time to take another look at mine but last night when I was cleaning the front of mine I noticed the optic made a small popping/creaking noise when I pressed against it. Once again this might be happening because the optic needs to sit on the O-ring and the O-ring isn't there anymore ( I took mine out ). I need to fix this or it's more possible that water will get inside.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its gonna be hard to beat the flood of my ssx3 but this light is awesome. Like there rings for the mount too, much better/easier to deal with.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm, I'm gonna have to take another look at that O-ring to optic seal (guess I missed it). 

I could try posting comparisons to my SSX3 as I take my photos at the same locations. I already posted comparisons between the 872 clone and SSX3 elsewhere. I don't think I have Yinding photos yet since I already had snow on the ground when I received it (i.e. never got a chance to take pics in decent conditions).

By the way, remember this lights driver pushes the LEDs a tad harder than the EBay clone too.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I got sent back home from work tonight so wait for it to get dark to start working on all this. Yinding up first, then ill do comparisons on bt40 and ss x3, both are already mounted to my bike, black yinding will be added to bars and blue one (which I switched emitters around already) on my helmet. If it doesn't rain, ill head down to the park again where ive got space (and paved trails which are basically paved, wooded double track). And work on some pics.



Hope cat can get more done on his review tonight, he's way better at this than me so want his full honest thoughts on this thing.

Oh and @ cat. The oring has a seat around the perimeter that should be at the edge of the optic, but its slightly too big so urs very well may have popped out and fallen when you started to remove the optic. Mine is a little big. Nitefighter needs to know and correct that one, its a nightmare to get it to stay well enough to reassemble.

And ignore my question, I understand your thought process now.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok im gonna let cat do his thing but I opened mine up all the way...i can't find anything that needs attention.....the usual basic needs aren't needed here, other than the battery wire which is obvious and waiting for order from dx to see if those ones are actually 20awg (magic shine arent more like 20ga so in between 22 and 20awg). But im lost and confused, got 2 light heads in today and both....beside adding remote to yinding..... Nothing to do besides take pics lol.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> ....Oh and @ cat. The o-ring has a seat around the perimeter that should be at the edge of the optic, but its slightly too big so urs very well may have popped out and fallen when you started to remove the optic. Mine is a little big. Nitefighter needs to know and correct that one, its a nightmare to get it to stay well enough to reassemble...


I took a look at it again when I got home tonight. This time with fresh eyes. I repositioned the O-ring so it sits closer to the top of the lip but like was said, the o-ring is a little big so hard to say if it's going to remain flush with the underside of the optic. I think it would of been better with a slightly smaller size O-ring and perhaps a tad thicker.

Anyway, I put it back together and all seems normal as far as I can tell. I'm not feeling or hearing any creaking from the optic so I guess it's seated better. Sometime this week I'll test it with a shower to see how it holds up.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> waiting for order from dx to see if those ones are actually 20awg (magic shine arent more like 20ga so in between 22 and 20awg).


Just cut one of mine open to send light head portion out to the guy custom modding my HD-016. It seems to be 20awg to me. Matches up perfectly to wire bought as and labeled as 20awg.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Sweet. I had to do some better measuring of magicshine cable and I guess is kind of is 20awg. Caliper had it slightly below that of my 20awg silicone wire I get from mtnelectronics but much larger than the 22awg china stuff. Plus now using the case from my mudder kd2 kit, magicshine cable for the case on Panasonics I dont get noticable voltage drop even with the roughly 400mA I just boosted my driver


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I just got specs to Vanc for making gopro adapters for these cause they need a radius machined in them.

So does anyone else want one???

Oh wanted to add my beamshot pics from the other night. BT40 vs my modded ssx3. Wasnt fair till I juiced up the bt40 just a tad since ss x3 is boosted a bit too.



















ss X3 on top but because I can use multiple optics styles in one head and its XM-L2 U2s. But BT40 is right there behind it with a solid mix IMO. Id say yinding with a bit more throw mixed in.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I tested this out tonight. Ran very well and disipated heat very very well. Definitely a nice bar light especially for the money. I don't have my mj 872 on me but from what I remember this is a bit brighter and has a more pleasant tint. One thing I noticed was that the battery indicator is A) very bright like cat said and B) very sensitive to voltage sag. I don't know why but my mj 872 was also like this and from what I hear the mj872 clone also had a similar thing going on. I wonder why that is as I can't imagine it drawing terribly much current. I was running it plugged straight into the case from the kd2/mudder with fresh panasonic 3400's


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mine does the same thing, hit turbo button turns blue. On the mudder case which has magicshine cable and Panasonics, when fully charged it takes a few minutes before it switches. And that's with mine having a modded driver now.

Your matching led to emitter count and they didn't tune the indicator accordingly it seems. I'm hoping once I change everything over to 20awg battery cables that this will be less of an issue.

And im working on dimming that damn indicator light, its actually quite distracting and messes with my eyes adjusting a bit.

Really liking this light, waiting for s3 bin 3c's to come back in stock at mtb, im guessing these are running r5's. And found optics options at ledsupply.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

With higher currents you have to take every bit into account. Welded battery packs withput protection circuit and 20AWG wire would be much better in that regard. Also Panasonics 3400 are not the best if you look the voltage curves alone (put aside the capacity for a moment). Sanyo 2600 and some LG might be bit better. 

You get looses (resistance=voltage drop) on every contact, wires, springs (in battery case), protection circuits and connectors. So minimazing those points you gain some voltage which helps you with signaling leds and performance of course.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Iirc our red Panasonics were better in that aspect over green Panasonics. But red had lower max discharge (which really doesn't matter we aren't pulling but half their rating anyway).

I haven't tried red vs green cells yet. Might charge a set up see the effects on indicator. But solarstorm case vs mudder case I see no visible improvement. Both cases have too for improvement of course.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

There are very small diiferences at each point including batteries. To be noticeable significantly you would need to improve more than one. Solarstorm and mudder doesn't pull that much current. Up to about 1.5A you won't see any visible effect. Then it is getting expontential. 
I've runt in those problems when dealing with 6up light and regulated driver (ie. pulling constant power). Most those 2 led drivers are not regulated, don't know about BT40s with 4, though. With regulated drivers as voltage drops current raises and so does resistance (ie. loses and additinal voltage drop) getting in loop.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Can't find this on their website any more, but according to MagicShine's user manual, the four-color indicator is not accurate when lamp is running (because battery volatage is unstable), only when plugged in and powered off for at least five minutes. So readings are not meant to be taken on the fly. This is more of a drawback for the Nitefighter clone because the indicator does not come on when the lamp is off. But if you just glimpse the color at start up or after letting rest, should be fairly accurate. Guessing this is common to most if not all lamps with any sort of battery charge indicator, because of the dozen I've ridden with, not one is reliable when actually in use.  Well, at least the indicator will not make it appear that there is more of a charge remaining than there really is, problem is quite the reverse.

That said, have found that on the BT40S, when operated in conjuction with the supplied 5200mAh BAK pack, indicator does not drop down as prematurely as with my MagicShine 816 lamps, whose four color LED control button I have learned to ignore.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The XP-G2 LEDs have always had high vF. This has been a real problem with single cell flashlights. I'm using 4.35v cells with the xp-g2 flashlight I built for helmet use. 

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> And found optics options at ledsupply.


Tigris, make sure you are not looking at the 24mm diameter. BT40S must run like 34mm or so, don't think LEDSupply stocks that. Found the narrower º optics on a Chinese site but they never responded to my inquiry.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm used to the old single emitter lights that would stay on green for hours lol.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

manbeer said:


> I'm used to the old single emitter lights that would stay on green for hours lol.


And only put out about 400 lumens, right? Times have changed! Out with the old!

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

andychrist said:


> Tigris, make sure you are not looking at the 24mm diameter. BT40S must run like 34mm or so, don't think LEDSupply stocks that. Found the narrower º optics on a Chinese site but they never responded to my inquiry.


Ya just dug back found your post about that. Nitefighter needs to offer up optics since they obviously have access to all beam patterns.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yep, but I was coming from the old halogens so considering the performance was close and the battery life was better I didn't mind. SSC P7's lol


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

ok I think I found something on this light that is kind of worrisome. Was messing around with the mount trying to install the vancbiker gopro mount on the BT40S when I noticed that the original o-ring mount came with a very short screw and most of the threads on the screw are only attached to the finned portion of the light and by my estimate, probably only 2 or 3 threads(or less) are attached to the solid round hole portion of the lighthead past the finned portion. 
I'm pretty paranoid about the light coming loose from all the bouncing around on a mtb so I think a longer screw is necessary here. I'm not exactly sure what is the longest screw that will fit yet since its too late to go to the hardware store but but I'm going to try M4x8mm and M4x6mm tomorrow when the store is open.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

you have room to play with but not much. All these stock come with a very short screw, up to use to find the right size crew for our lights to fit the gopro adapters. 

But IMHO (for everyone else) there is no need for a finned mount with these im yet to get mine near as hot as my yinding. Even now that I turned my driver up a fair bit still doesnt get THAT hot, might warrant a finned mount now but not a "need" like the yinding.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> you have room to play with but not much. All these stock come with a very short screw, up to use to find the right size crew for our lights to fit the gopro adapters.
> 
> But IMHO (for everyone else) there is no need for a finned mount with these im yet to get mine near as hot as my yinding. Even now that I turned my driver up a fair bit still doesnt get THAT hot, might warrant a finned mount now but not a "need" like the yinding.


I think I didn't make myself very clear. I'm saying even with the plastic o-ring mount, you'd need a 6mm screw or 8mm screw to get good thread engagement into the solid portion of the lighthead. 
For the(non-finned) gopro adapter from vancbiker I'll probably need a 12 or 14mm screw.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yes the shell can accomodate like a 2mm longer screw shaft, so you're probably looking at a 10mm screw for the plastic mount and 16mm for Vancbiker's adapter (which unless you spring for the one he customized for the Nitefighter, will have to be shaved down on one end to accomodate the fin on the BT40S that protudes after the area flattened for the original plastic mount.) Make sure to bring the lamp with you into the store to fit, because there can be a bit of variance in length of the screw shaft, both due to margin of error in manufacture and how the head is shaped (as it is included in screw length.) And don't forget the Loctite!

BTW more worrisome to me is that plastic mount is only about 1mm thick under the rim of the screw head, so may not be able to long withstand the pressure needed to hold it tight, along with the forces mentioned working against it on a MTB. Maybe sealing in a flat washer and topping of with a lock or flex washer could help, there is certainly enough room to play with. Of course that addition woulf have to be factored in to the screw length, could be close to another 2mm.

EDIT: Problem sorta solved. Washers won't fit, exterior diameters too wide. So picked up a pack of #60 O-rings, stuffed one into the empty recess of the plastic mount, screwed in a SS M4 x 10mm, holds tight. Only flaw, still haven't reinforced the thin layer of plastic below the screw head rim; hoping the O-ring will alleviate enough of the stress to keep the mount from disintegrating right away. Also scored a tube of epoxy putty to be prepared for that eventuality. Incidentally, screw I used was flat head, i.e.: cone shaped. O-ring was able to accommodate that easily, for any of youse guys who can't dig up a 10mm round or pan head M4 locally.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I leave the sourcing of a mounting screw up the user for the very reasons discussed here. I've had folks tell me that they can only thread ~2-2.5mm into the body of some lights before running out of threads. Some clone lights are threaded into the drive housing and too long a screw can contact driver components. 

The tab on the standard and finned adapter is a bit over 6mm thick. At minimum, a 10mm long screw and a drop of threadlocker is recommended. If someone has a light body with minimal threads, I'd advise getting a slightly too long screw and shortening it just until it tightened up well to get the max possible thread engagement.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Andy that mount is pretty standard Chinese light mount, they seem to hold up the same regardless. What kind of plastic used makes a difference. But they are nice enough not to cover up the screw head with the pad.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Andy that mount is pretty standard Chinese light mount, they seem to hold up the same regardless. What kind of plastic used makes a difference. But they are nice enough not to cover up the screw head with the pad.


No tigris, it is a bit different and tailor made for the BT40S. Edges curve up around the lamp's barrel, which is great, but the circle of material under the screw head rim is much thinner than on most mounts - at least on my unit, which also has a choppy, irregular surface on that underside. It is quite fragile looking in comparison to any of my others. But don't really think mine is a fluke, because were the plastic even 1mm thicker there, then the M4 x 8mm screw as what came with it would probably not make it past the fins and into the solid part of the shell at all. To put it another way, am pretty sure I could not break off any of my other plastic mounts from the lamp head without a lot of effort, but am afraid with the BT40S would be all too easy. Um... am not gonna try.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I new it was radial formed but looked about the same, so figured cheap china mount like any other. So far mine has given me 0 issues. But that's SO FAR lol.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

also got some Y cables to power this babyes just need to finde some extra time and do a reveiw


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Interesting idea to run two but as bar lamps go I think one is enough. Still if running two it would be great if there was a quad optic available that offered more throw. Then it would make more sense running one flood and one spot. Other than that if I were to run two I'd just use the standard optic for both. Of course we must remember that a Nitefighter 7-up is suppose to be in the works. As for me I'm fine with just the quad on the bar and a SSX3 on the lid.

( edit ) Sorry needed to add more thoughts. Perhaps the proposed duel set-up ( above ) might work out well. I figure if both are kept to the second or third mode that would provide a very wide and usable beam pattern without using up too much battery power.
I would recommend a good 6-cell battery though ( if using a "Y" cable ).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Jesus that would be alotta light.

My concern would be horrible voltage drop across the y cable trying to pull that much power.

That said very curious on this. Wonder what run time would look like on 3400 Panasonics.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Overkill, I agree but this is just a setup to compare 2 optics. 
Plan is to retrofit one of the lights with MT-G2.

(edit) 6 or even 8 cell battery pack is a must, 1 and 2 level would be ok with 4 cell battery pack, 3rd level maybe for a short runs but 4th level just draws too much amps and 4 cell battery will not be able to keep up for a long time.
Y cable I got is quite short, total length is only 28cm and the cables are even thicker than those on lights, not sure what's inside thou, but they fit very nicely and they are waterproof or should I say splashproof.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

That = badass


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Aight I need the all you that know more about cree emitters than the rest of us:

I was looking at going xp-g2 s3, waiting for "in stock" again

Then it occurred to me, XP-L. LAtest version is v6, at 1.5A is right on par (actually slightly higher) that xm-l2, 100lumens specced higher than best xp-g2. XP series, so would fit the board in the bt40.

Any reason NOT TO???? Make for one STUPID BRIGHT BT40,lol.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It all depends on optics if it does fit the XP-L dome. Unless you dedomed XP-L. But now XP-L High Intensity led just came out and you might not need dedoming any more. See http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/ds XPL.pdf


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Anyone have a retail source for the Cree XP-L? Could only find them on FastTech where all the Neutral Whites were Sold Out, D'oh!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

CREE - XP-L - LEDDNA 
2PCS CREE 10W XP-L XPL V6-3A Neutral White LED 20mm Alu Pcb Base Plate


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

or -> here


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

US Sources: XP-L

Or: LED, Driver, Optic, MCPCB, Wire, Thermal Compound

There was a post on BLF about opening up XP-G optics slightly using a torx bit in a cordless drill. Or you dedome them to fit them.

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Do you think they would play nicely with xm-l optics? I have a first gen Gemini olympia that could use some updating, was thinking about taking a different route


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Might be too loose fitting. Probably some posts on BLF about XP-L in XM-L optics. I really don't know. I don't even own any XP-L's yet. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok well that was all the info I needed, I was concerned about driver compatibility and such. I'm good have no issues modifying.

Btw ledoman that spec is cree found people dedoming leds, so they did the same basically cutting the dome way down. But improved output when using optics. Which I just discovered the other night. A 45deg on a dedomed is actually brighter with much less spill then regular dome emitter with a 45 deg optic.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tigris, dedomed gets you more throw ie. narower beam so it looks brighter in its spot. You already know that. I hate using the word brighter which to the most people means more light (lumens). It shurely gives you more lux. Just need to comment it.....


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well what im hoping is this works like it does when I changed optics on the yinding from spot to wide spot, minimal spill much more controlled beam, so area light where I needed the light is actually better lit.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

This is a really nice light, used it again tonight and it is fantastic on the bars. I do have those issues with the indicator changing early and I know it's super sensitive as I was running the mudder case with ncr18650pf (high drain) cells this time, no extension, straight into the port on the case so less than a foot of cable total. It's a great flooder and seems to have very good thermal transfer out of the box


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

so right now getting less sure about my plan.....lol. No way xp-l will fit stock optics and after expiramenting using mj880 clone, the dedoming idea, unless i want to be searching for aircraft, isnt going to go so well on the bt40 lol. 2 xm-l2 u4 1c dedomed running almost right at TRUE 3A, I could land a plain but hell if it was any good beyond that. 

Sirius' link looks promising (price is half what I pay in the states for emitters but I get in 3-4 days instead of 3-4 weeks lol) since be a while before MTN has g2 S3 back in stock in 3c tint.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> It all depends on optics if it does fit the XP-L dome. Unless you dedomed XP-L. But now XP-L High Intensity led just came out and you might not need dedoming any more. See http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/ds XPL.pdf


Interesting; I didn't know there was an upgraded version of the XP-L. Very good news that is. Stats on the XP-L ( high density ) look promising.

The BT40S looks like a lamp that might be easier to mod. I don't know how much current is passing through each LED but if it's near 1.2A , if you could mod with a quad XP-L ( High Density ) and find a quad optic to fit the lamp you could conceivably get ~ 2000 lumen OTF ( with neutral LED's ) with no driver mod. Depends of course on how much current is available and of course if you can find a quad emitter board and optic that will fit the current set-up. That said, might be a while till such becomes available. Might be one of the reasons why there is no Nitefighter 7-up yet.

Tonight I go out to test my neutral lamps again. While out there I plan to test the torch I have with ( cool white ) XP-L emitter. Most of the time though I'll be focused on the BT40S and the provided battery. Things are turning green in my area so I might be able to get some interesting photo's.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Sirius' link looks promising (price is half what I pay in the states for emitters but I get in 3-4 days instead of 3-4 weeks lol)...


Yes, IO has nice stuff and I just love those red Noctigon boards 







Shipping time is what it is but since I am not in US ordering from there would cost me significantly (opposite to shipping from China) and shipping time would be only slightly shorter.
Also some TIR optics to test with BT21, anyone care to donate one light


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

As of today BT40S (full set) is available @ GearBest.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Sirius9 said:


> As of today BT40S (full set) is available @ GearBest.


WTF? :skep: They're asking $104.26 as if that's a genuine, 60% discount over a list price of $258.37; where as it's still on sale for $69.95 over at Amazon (USA) where the list price says $169.95. Guess maybe reasonable for those without Amazon access, when compared to other packages in the same class. MagicShine version is the about the same price but not as good.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> WTF? :skep: They're asking $104.26 as if that's a genuine, 60% discount over a list price of $258.37; where as it's still on sale for $69.95 over at Amazon (USA) where the list price says $169.95. Guess maybe reasonable for those without Amazon access, when compared to other packages in the same class. MagicShine version is the about the same price but not as good.


Agree, the price on Gearbest doesn't make sense.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Amazon does not deliver to my country, I can only order from aliexpres for about 120$.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Get the bt40 off eBay, priced much better.

I will address the bt40 price in a bit with gearbest.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

That BT40S package on eBay, does it ship worldwide? Says "Ships to: United States" on eBay USA, maybe it's different for some other countries? Found it on eBay.de but even there, only ships to US (from China.) Doesn't appear on U.K. site at all.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its cause of your ip Andy. EBay pulls your ip for country. Other countries will show other options or you should be able to physically select other countries


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well that's what I suspected but even when on the foreign sites the option to ship to another country still only showed US.

NITEFIGHTER BT40S 1600 lumens LED Bike Light -(Full Set) | eBay

I've purchased lots of crap from both the UK and German eBay sites before, wasn't a problem because the vendors shipped internationally. Wonder if anyone on this forum outside the USA can get the Nitefighter from their own country's eBay site.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Btw bt40 gone off amazon....

Gearbest price issue being fixed as we speak (yeap we're already on top of it . )


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Btw bt40 gone off amazon....


You sure, tigris?

Amazon.com : Ultra Bright 1600 Lumens Rechargeable Mountain Bike Light with Cree XP-G2 Neutral White LED - Bike Headlight - LED Bike Light-Suitable for: Mountain Biking, Downhill, Touring, Commuting - Long Battery Life -7.4V 5.2Ah BAK Rechargeable Li

There were thirteen left in stock.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

^Lifetime warranty too!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wtf when I did a search said unavailable


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Second Ride with BT40S*

Went out Sunday night for a really nice night ride. Absolutely beautiful crystal clear sky with the brightest full moon I've seen in some time. Unfortunately I had problem right from the get-go. Seems I forgot to bring the Nitefighter battery. :madman: That meant I had to use the battery for the SSX3 for the BT40S.  Luckily I did bring the XP-L torch along ( for the lid ) so I used that when needed for the faster stuff.

First thing I noticed on the ride was that I really wasn't using the helmet torch all that much. The BT40S was looking really good. The thing that continues to surprise me is that the 40S has a really good low mode. I was amazed at how well the lamp works on low. Not that I didn't use the other modes, I did. I really was picking up on all the odd trail obstacles even though much of the trail was still covered with pine needles and other leaf debris. I just love the warmth of the neutral lamps as it makes it so much easier to see all the little details usually lost with the cooler bin LED's

Another observation I couldn't help to notice was that regardless of the mode I was using I could always see beyond the main cone of illumination even if the light was faint. I guess this means that even though the throw suffers a bit you can still see quite a ways, even when on low. Most of the time I never notice stuff like this simply because I'm usually running a helmet lamp with more throw. I found it very satisfying to find a lamp at this price range to be working so well. On a side note I think the race crowd might like this lamp simply because the lamp works so good on the lowest modes. Obviously being able to run minimal light for extended periods ( and still be able to see at medium or slow speeds ) would be a great advantage while in a race. Not to mention if you're running low on juice the lamp battery is going to last longer if run on the lower modes.

I tried to take some photos of the lamp on low but the camera I'm using doesn't really do it justice. The photo on high turned out pretty good so I'll include that below..









Now just add the output from a neutral SSX3 to that photo for extra throw and you have an excellent combo. Truthfully though I was doing fine with just the 40S on the bars. BTW, the 40S worked fine with the XP-L torch on the lid. While I'm sure the SSX3 would of been great ( if just for the over-kill ) I was doing fine with the single XP-L on the lid. Add to that the trail I was riding was in excellent condition and was super fast. I almost didn't want to go home.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah, I have to agree that the low is very useable. The yinding up top, although not a super defined spot, blended very nicely with the nitefighter. Here's the yinding on medium, the bt40 on 3/4 from saturday


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

Just noticed the BT40S package including battery has been reduced on Gearbest to $57.12! That looks about right now.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Confusing that Package contents lists everything but still says in Description 

Powered by four BAK 18650 rechargeable Li-on batteries, 7.4V 5200mAh( not included )

Would be a good deal for the entire package but I'd hesitate to order before further clarification.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Fwiw, if they are still honoring the coupon which Andy said he would for mtbr members, it's actually about the same price on Amazon and will arrive in 2 days


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I got something coming with that, hold on


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I just finished the first of the water testings. The first is without any modding. I sat the lamp under the shower attachment on my kitchen sink for 30 minutes making sure that a good bit was hitting the front where I'm guessing is it's weak point. 

The lamp still works but I did notice a small bit of water got inside ( a couple drops ). I will emphasize not very much but I would have preferred to not see any leakage at all. All things considered the lamp is not marketed as being "waterproof" and makes no claim to be so. That said it is true to it's word. 

Going forward, finding a slightly bigger O-ring or adding some grease to the outer front retaining ring should help immensely. Seeing that my KD2 Duo clone has optics that rattle slightly I would think the BT40S would be more trustworthy on the bars without modding.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Third Ride Nitefighter BT40S; First test of the battery*

Finally had a chance Saturday to give the BT40S ( with included battery ) another good run through. I rode one of my favorite trails and the trail that I tested the Xeccon Spiker 1211 helmet lamp on just last year.

Saturday the trails were in absolute the finest conditions I have ever seen. Where I live the weather has been unusually warm for Spring and unusually dry. Everything is green and beautiful and I was feeling great. Everything went as expected and I quickly began to enjoy my ride. With everything so dry I found I was moving along very quickly. With the BT40S on the bars and my SSX3 ( neutral LED's for both lamps ) on the helmet, I was seeing everything on the trails way before I needed to.

Since I was using the Nitefighter battery for the first time I wanted to make sure that I was using more power than what I usually used. Most of the time I kept the lamp in it's third highest mode and only dropped down to lower levels when either walking, resting or on a really slow climb. Temps were in the 70's ( Fahrenheit ) and has been the warmest and most humid ride I've taken this year. I love warm weather so I was in my element. I could tell the 40S was getting mildly warm ( to the touch ) but otherwise the lamp never got too hot. Most of the time I only used the Solarstorm X3 on low but to check how well the BT40S was working occasionally I would turn the X3 off, especially on the slower climbs or on the straighter level sections. On the faster downhills I would turn the Bt40S on high and the X3 on medium. On those settings I could see everything I needed to see.

Once again I'm noticing a big difference between lamps that use the cooler LED's vs. the neutral LED's. With the neutral LED's I'm seeing many more subtle trail features and it is my opinion that this is making me choose the better lines when negotiating the more rugged terrain. This fact alone is making me a better night rider simply by giving me the ability to see the more hidden trail features better. This translates over to giving me more confidence when riding at night. Tonight I saw this effect first hand as I approached a very knarly short downhill section towards the end of the ride. Previously I always ended up walking this section because the rock formations always appeared very intimidating. For some reason when I approached this same section using the neutral lamps the same rocks that had appeared very ominous before using the cooler LED lamps looked less threatening. Matter of fact so less threatening that the whole section looked completely different. This time I just picked my line and went over the rocks only to realize the moment I cleared the section that THIS was the section I always walked. Wow! I was impressed. I'm sold on the neutral set-ups, at least when it comes to dry conditions.

Okay, almost forgot to comment on the battery. The battery did very well. Toward the end of the ride I had the Bt40S on full high. When I was minutes to getting back to the car, only then did the battery indicator go from green to blue. My ride was faster than usual and I forgot to check my watch when I left so I'm thinking I rode about 1 hr 45 minutes to 2 hrs. Not bad for an included battery provided by the Chinese. Still I need to completely discharge the battery to see how much longer it will run. I'll try to do that on tomorrow's ride so I get a better idea of the capacity but my gut feeling is that the battery is indeed a very good 5200mAh battery. I won't know for sure though until tomorrow. Tomorrow I'll bring a back up along so I have a spare just in case the battery bonks before I'm done my ride.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Good stuff Cat! I didn't realize that you had the whole kit with the battery too. I'm going to be going out tonight and I think I'm gonna have to try their battery. I'm ashamed to say that I now have so many battery packs and have been riding so little that the only real "testing" that they get has been on a hobby charger. You have me wondering though, as my bt40 went to blue in about 20 minutes using ncr18650pf in the mudder case, that maybe lights like this with sensitive voltage displays will fare better with a welded pack vs spring connections


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*4th Ride with BT40S: Part II of battery test*

Sunday the ride I did was on a different trail, more debris, more short up and down hills and not too many easy level sections. When I started the ride I tried to keep the same mind set as previously, "Use more light than needed". No problems on the level and downhills but the climbs tended to be on very slow and rutted rock strewn trails. With that in mind I had to drop the power to low on those slower climbs because to do so otherwise would of likely caused the lamp to overheat and I really didn't want that to happen.

Anyway, when I started the ride the battery was at the previous discharge level as when I finished my last ride. When I first turned the lamp on the indicator was green. This was probably due to the effect known as battery rebound. After a couple minutes it quickly went back to blue. Like I mentioned before I tried to run more power than I usually do. Regardless I was able to complete my loop in about 1hr and 40 minutes. Even when I used the highest output for some of the better ( short ) downhills the indicator never change from blue. Once again, I was surprised by this. That meant I had rode two nights for a total of ~ 3.5 hr. ( and using more output than I would normally use ). Not bad for a battery using 4 x 2600mAh Bak cells.

When I got home I decided I would have to try to see how much more I could deplete the battery. I set the BT40S to the 3rd output mode, put a fan on it and just let it run. **After 14 minutes the indicator changed to yellow. During this test I also monitored the heat on the outer casing. After about 10 minutes the lamp hovered and maintained ~ 111-112°F. ( with fan ) (***Ambient room temp was 79°F in my home )

The lamp continued to run on the yellow indicator for quite some time. During that time the output never dropped down to a lower mode level. I checked it a couple times just to make sure. **Seventy minutes after the lamp indicator changed to yellow the indicator changed to Red! Wow! and still the lamp output did not drop from the 3rd mode. After the indicator changed to red I ran the lamp another 20 minutes and then decided to stop the test. That lamp never did leave the 3rd mode level.

All things considered, I feel this battery is one damn good battery. I ran the battery a total of 5 hrs and 3 minutes with power to spare. During that time I used way more power than I would normal use when I do my typical rides. While I perhaps only ran the highest output level no more than 10 minutes I did use the next highest level WAY MORE than what I would have normally needed to. Make of this what you will but I'm pretty impressed.

(*side notes: After about 45 minutes on yellow the lamp got a little hotter ( 115°F ) as the driver circuit no doubt worked harder to maintain the same output. Once the indicator turned red the lamp began to cool as the battery voltage no doubt began to drop below where the driver could compensate. )


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Supposedly Fenix used the same cells for their 2600 mah protected 18650's and this was HKJ test on them for those who are interested. His tests seemed to confirm that they were top notch

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...w-of-Fenix-18650-ARB-L2-2600mAh-(Black)/page2


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Just another fact about the BT40S I forgot to mention before; While using the lamp the lamp ( with O-ring ) held in place very well but was still easy to adjust when needed. Regardless I would very much prefer to have either a standard tilt-mount or something like a Gopro mount. The reason being that this lamp has 4 mode levels and since I like to switch mode levels a lot on the fly the lamp would tend to move a little while pressing to change modes. With O-ring mounting I'm not sure I can do anything about that. I figure a mount that "clamps" would have the ability to adjust tension. Looks like I might look into buying a Gopro mount for the bars but it's not a major issue.

I took a couple good photos last night but just haven't had time yet to upload them. Damn, already late for work. I'll try to post them tonight when I come home.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice, be good to have a budget light set up that doesn't use crappy batteries.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Just another fact about the BT40S I forgot to mention before; While using the lamp the lamp ( with O-ring ) held in place very well but was still easy to adjust when needed. Regardless I would very much prefer to have either a standard tilt-mount or something like a Gopro mount. The reason being that this lamp has 4 mode levels and since I like to switch mode levels a lot on the fly the lamp would tend to move a little while pressing to change modes. With O-ring mounting I'm not sure I can do anything about that. I figure a mount that "clamps" would have the ability to adjust tension. Looks like I might look into buying a Gopro mount for the bars but it's not a major issue.


Cat, it's kinda difficult to adjust the tension on the alloy GoPro mount, dunno about the plastic ones. I'd had the same idea as you but found the MagicShine style mounts with the O-rings are a bit easier to re-aim on the fly, even though they do have the tendency to spring back some. Would be neat if there were GoPro mounts with limit screws that you could set to High and Low Beam positions, that way you could just flip the lamp up or down as far as it could go without having to make further adjustments. As it stands now the motion is rough and you still have to restrain the lamp when changing modes, unless you've set the clamp so tight that it can't be rotated at all on the fly.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hell this is why I like gopro mount, I can set it and it does move. Done. Magicshine a step down/small drop it sometimes moves. Hell a pothole on the street has caused heavier of my lights to move. Crank a gopro mount tight and I don't have to worry about anything. But lights like my ssx3 and bt40 for me have a good enough mix in beam that the need for more throw when it arises is covered by my yinding on the lid.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Hell this is why I like gopro mount, I can set it and it does move. Done. Magicshine a step down/small drop it sometimes moves. Hell a pothole on the street has caused heavier of my lights to move. Crank a gopro mount tight and I don't have to worry about anything. But lights like my ssx3 and bt40 for me have a good enough mix in beam that the need for more throw when it arises is covered by my yinding on the lid.


Ideally it would be great to adapt the BT40S to an old Marwi ( Tilting ) mount. I believe EL34 has a couple MS type adapters listed on his website for use with the old Marwi quick release mounts. There are other options but likely I just need a better O-ring. Originally when I was using the 40S I used one of my old Bikeray ( red silicone ) O-rings. I made the mistake of trying to take it off with something too sharp and it cut the damn ring...:madman: I only have one of those left and it's being used on the Gloworm. AFAIK, the red silicone O-rings work the best. The small version is super tight. Now I need to know where to buy more of those.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So just because I can, I got and installed xp-g2 s3 3c emitters.....so....much....light lol.



Only light I have that can match it/out perform it now is my modded mj880 clone. Which is 2 xm-l2 u2 3c running at true 3A (well 2.9-3A) on a 15 and 45 leddna optics. And the bt40 is pretty dang close now. Was even with my modded x3.

Can't believe how easy it is now to get stupid amounts of light in small packages that can product the light for a couple hours between charges.


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## eTrex_FSR (Dec 18, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> So just because I can, I got and installed xp-g2 s3 3c emitters.....so....much....light lol.
> 
> Only light I have that can match it/out perform it now is my modded mj880 clone. Which is 2 xm-l2 u2 3c running at true 3A (well 2.9-3A) on a 15 and 45 leddna optics. And the bt40 is pretty dang close now. Was even with my modded x3.
> 
> Can't believe how easy it is now to get stupid amounts of light in small packages that can product the light for a couple hours between charges.


Did you change each led individually or is there a 4 led board you used?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Changed each on individually


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Tigris99, surprised you didn't go with XP-L's. Or is that mod reserved for the next BT40s lighthead? 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Xp-ls dont fit the optics and didn't want to risk an optic to see if I could make it work cause only optic I have.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Didn't want to risk the "torx bit trick"?

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Aside from a different beam pattern, what is the advantage of going to xp-l? Are they more efficient?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Generally for more lumens. They are basically XM-L(2) output in XP-G(2) size. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nah I didn't want to because it defeats the purpose, loose output from loss of clarity in optics.



If I had spare optics then I would experiment with it, but I don't since they didnt include the second optic in lighthead only option. And the driver best guess right now is pushing around 1A/emitter on turbo.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*BT40S: Beam Shots*

These beam shots were taken on my last night ride. This is with the standard optics. The first was taken looking up a small hill and is using the 2nd mode level. As you can tell, level 2 looks pretty bright.









The second photo ( below ) was taken on a different section and is using the full output. Once again, output looks very bright.









Strangely I found that taking the photos from right behind the lamp tended to yield a better quality photo. Actually to me the photo's look brighter in the foreground than what my eyes detected while in the field. Once again the limitations of the camera are limiting the amount of light that is seen in the distance. I think this is because my eyes seemed less sensitive to the foreground light when on higher levels than the camera. This probably explains why I could see somewhat further than what the photos indicate. Since I'm just using the camera on my Droid Max I would think a better camera might yield a more accurate photo. Still, all things considered these are not bad pictures.

One thing the photos do illustrate is the beam pattern. For the most part the beam pattern is very similar to my Gloworm X2. While the GW-X2 might provide more throw and a slightly wider beam pattern the BT40S puts a lot of light down where you want it, including right under the front wheel. Actually I noticed while using the BT40S that the body of the GWX2 ( which I kept mounted on my bars but not in use ) was casting a VERY noticeable shadow very close to the bike. I thought that worth mentioning.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Very nice! Freaking constant rain lately has been keeping dirt trails closed but im going out this weekend to paved path again to do a side by side test of all my lights. Bt40 so far with my back yard "testing" its amazing the mix of throw and flood is insane for one light.


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## dmc71 (May 16, 2015)

Hi, first post but been reading a while.
I've recently bought a few new chinese bike lights including the BT21 and BT40S both in light head only from ebay auctions.
I've today tested the current draw and Wattage on both of these and the red gearbest Yinding.
Anyway as this is the BT40S review thread my results were:
1.84A at 7.47V giving 13.7W.
Which assuming 4V at emitters (fv plus driver) would equate to 0.85A per LED. As i understand with efficiency losses etc this probably results in around 880lm total.
These results are a little less than i expected given the good reviews this lights been getting in practice and in comparison to others. But it appears under powered when compared to the MJ872 which i understand to be at around 17-18w?

out of interest, the BT21 came with frosted lenses (or ccover glass). Its results were 7.2v and 2.8A so 20W. However the volts were dropping by the second and dropped from 7.27v to 7.18v in seconds wuth a differnt battery it dropped from 7.18v to 7.00v in around 20 secs.

just to round off the Yinding ran at 7.34v and 2.25A so around 16.5w.

Non of the tests were carried out for more than a minute or two, so that may need to be taken into account.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

dmc71 said:


> Hi, first post but been reading a while.
> I've recently bought a few new chinese bike lights including the BT21 and BT40S both in light head only from ebay auctions.
> I've today tested the current draw and Wattage on both of these and the red gearbest Yinding.
> Anyway as this is the BT40S review thread my results were:
> ...


Interesting. The claim from Nitefighter is that the lamp produces 1600 lumen. While admittedly I'm not sure if the BT40S attains to that level I'm not too experienced in judging the outputs ( visually ) from the neutral LEDs ( yet ).

Since I'm not about to confirm your findings by testing current draw at the emitters ( I'll let someone else do that ) I'll just mention some things to consider. Nitefighter doesn't mention the emitter group being used ( refer to Cree chart on XP-G2 neutral ). That said I really don't know how they can claim 1600 lumen unless they are referring to a group above R3 and using more than 1A through each of the LED's.

I should also mention here that according to the Cree charts the _"Minimal luminous flux"_ for the XP-G2 neutral LED (R3) at 1A ( also listed as 3volts per emitter ) is about 297 lumen ( nominal ). Since I'm assuming a 2S/2P emitter configuration, even at the current levels you mentioned ( divided by 2 ) that would be very close to 1A going through each emitter ( close to 6 volts across the emitter load according to the charts ).

Obviously, I have to be assuming a lot of things when it comes to the electrical specifications / configuration of the BT40S but my gut feeling is that the lamp outputs more than 880 lumen. 1200 lumen I could believe but 880 would be hard to swallow. When I get a chance I'll try to do some lux comparisons with my older Gloworm X2 ( 1200 lumen version ). While it won't be quite an "Apples to Apples" comparison I'll try to set things up so I'll at least get a general idea of luminous output from the BT40S. Regardless, I still like the output of the BT40S as is, not to mention the 4-mode levels are very useful.

Anyway, if you're right it would help explain the long run times if nothing else. Meanwhile, I'll try to see if someone else can confirm your findings.

( * Wow! Glad I delayed my ride tonight. Really big storm just came through and much faster than I previously thought. :nonod: On the upside I just got a free ( badly needed ) car wash  )


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## dmc71 (May 16, 2015)

Hi, i guess with a 2s2p set-up and the same assumptions ie fv plus 1v at driver and 80% eff then you do achieve a slightly higher current at emitters of 0.97A and circa 950lm. So whether series, parallel or 2s2p would make a slight difference. And as you say the LEDs may be better than R3.
So my calculated amps at emitters may be slightly out and this would also mean the lumen also being slightly out.
The comparison of watts used between the BT40S, BT21 and Yinding is i suppose still a valid comparison. From this you'd expect greater runtime from the BT40s, and less from the BT21 which is essentially also what Nitefighter suggest.
I don't own the MJ872 so cant compare watts or current between that and the BT40s, but i had read different reviews that suggested 17w-18w for the MJ872. LEDs have moved on so you may get more out of less when comparing the new BT40s and older MJ872.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

dmc71 said:


> Hi, first post but been reading a while.
> 
> I've recently bought a few new chinese bike lights including the BT21 and BT40S both in light head only from ebay auctions.
> 
> ...


Your current calculations are spot on except your vf is off. And your testing at mid voltage not at fresh 8.4v pack which is where they rate the lamp. Also wattage only means so much, more emitters at less current produce more light (efficiency higher at lower current)

HOWEVER:

Your calculations of of lumen output is way off. Not sure where your getting your lumen ratings for the emitters but is extremely low. Emitters used are xp-g2 r5. Like all lamps they are rating lumens high in the descriptions but actual is around 1300 lumens. .85A/emitter is right, they are set up 2s2p on the star, but emitters used before loss from optics at 800mah is 1600 lumens (rounded for total on all 4) then take out losses at the front, assuming 20% loss from optics and your @ ~1320 lumens visual.

And this is done with these assumptions:

Low end of output rating on a R5 bin, output could be as much as 40 lumens per emitter more.

That the optics have only a 80% efficiency rating, and except for the cheapest Chinese optics, normal rating is 83-87% efficient.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

All I know is that if the bt21 is sucking up that much current it's a beast


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well if optics are good then the bt21 just became a yinding killer for output. Sounds like bt21 is running what MY modded yinding is now


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

manbeer said:


> All I know is that if the bt21 is sucking up that much current it's a beast


^^...we can hope. :thumbsup:

*About the BT40S lumen rating:* Well, if the current going through each LED is 850ma ( per tigress99 ) then here's the math according to the Cree charts;

Based on min. current input ( 350ma ) ( temp @ emitter junction 85°C ) and using the highest bin neutral XP-G2 ( R5 )... using the chart > _"Relative Luminous Flux vs. current ( % )"_, I plot a 225% increase from the 100% mark ( 350ma to 850ma ). The lumen output at 100% ( @ 350ma ) is 139 lumen ( @ 85°C )...therefore,

...*139 x 225% = 292.5 lumen*. This is of course after it has reached 85°C. At start up it is likely more like 355.5 lumen ( per led ) according to the chart.

All of this is of course less than the 1600 lumen claimed by Nitefighter. I generally don't factor in optic losses but with optic and thermal losses considered *I don't think 1200 lumen output ( OTFA > Out the Front Average ) would be too far from the truth as long as you don't over-heat the lamp. * Considering there is a potential swing in output between 1168-1420 lumen, this just makes sense to me. ( this is assuming a current of 850ma. per LED )


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat, the bt40 thermal management keeps emitter from reaching 85C. 85C is max temp before burnout. Hence where my calculations come in. 25C is optimal for star temp for max output. I add "x" degs Celsius (or if head allows I use my thermal couple on dmm for true reading at star) based on thermal path in head. So bt40, yinding, ones where mcpcb is mounted against the case directly, I add 2 deg C, ones like ss x3 and mj880 clone where pressed pills should be used but are not, I add 5-10 C to case temp since thermal path sucks so heat builds up more. Then figure output from there.

I can bet my bt40s calculations on a solid, fully charged pack, are within 5-10% of a true sphere test (up or down).

Ya I WAY over think this stuff, but without the equipment to do a lumen test, I have to use what I do have for data (temps, current, vf) use the base data graphs for starting point, cross the bin version output rating at rated current against the main graph to show true output of the current emitter bin at the driven current.

These let me over think and rack my brain in a manner thats fun, useful and helpful.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris, where do you get 85ºC as the maximum operating temperature? From everything I have read, it is simply the typical operating temperature, when the ambient is 25º. Maximum temperature is like 130º - 150ºC (at which point lumens fall to 0. Optimal temperature is actually around -30ºC.) Can't find the reference to Cree in particular, but here is just about the same thing written about a comparable LED from Osram, which explains why binning has changed from 25ºC:

Osram is characterizing and binning the new Oslon Square LEDs at 85°C because that temperature is more typical than 25°C that has been the typical level used for characterization in the industry for data sheets. Higher binning temperature, however, is no longer new as many manufacturers now follow that path. But Osram said that a new device architecture allows its new square LEDs to operate at even higher junction temperatures.

Osram optimizes square LED for higher operating temperatures and indoor SSL - LEDs

From my understanding 85º is (typically) the maximum temperature to prevent long-term burn out, preserving the life of the LED to something like 70% efficiency over the course of 50,000 hours. But going over 85ºC should certainly not fry the LED immediately.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Cat, the bt40 thermal management keeps emitter from reaching 85C. 85C is max temp before burnout. Hence where my calculations come in. 25C is optimal for star temp for max output. I add "x" degs Celsius (or if head allows I use my thermal couple on dmm for true reading at star) based on thermal path in head. So bt40, yinding, ones where mcpcb is mounted against the case directly, I add 2 deg C, ones like ss x3 and mj880 clone where pressed pills should be used but are not, I add 5-10 C to case temp since thermal path sucks so heat builds up more. Then figure output from there.
> 
> I can bet my bt40s calculations on a solid, fully charged pack, are within 5-10% of a true sphere test (up or down).
> 
> ...


According to the Cree Chart ( the very first one ) the max temperature before failure is 150°C. I think Cree came up with the 85°C rating because they were trying to provide a typical PN junction temperature by which the buyer could rate the useability of the emitter under typical conditions ( or so I have read to understand ). Earlier Cree power LED's had to maintain much lower temps in order to limit thermal losses. When Cree introduced the XM-*L2* and XP-*G2* LED's the thermal design of the emitter was improved to help control thermal losses. Keep the emitter junction from reaching 85°C and you've done well. The 25°C temperature reference is the ambient temperature of the emitter before being used. That is a laboratory standard that is only used in reference to start up temperature.

I have no idea what the junction temperature is on any of the led's being used in any of the lamps while I am using them. I suppose I could measure that without too much issue but I'm trusting that the design of the lamp is providing enough thermal management to keep thermal losses between 10-15%. This I consider acceptable.

On lamps that I have tested ( using fans to provide typical cooling ) I see temperatures on the outer body in the 45°C range. That means the emitter is "At least" at that temperature. Thermal management is a very complex science and involves knowing the thermal resistances of all the materials being used to control heat. It also involves the cooling effects of air and how that aids to manage the heat. There is a certain amount of time it takes for the materials involved to sink away the heat from the PN junction. _That said it is quite possible that the PN junction is actually hotter than the external heat sink of the lamp body at any given time._ This is why when I run my lamps I always use only the power needed for the moment.

I think we all know that the Chinese lamps are not noted for their great thermal properties. I always keep that in mind when using mine. Keeping the lamp cool ( by limiting current being used ) also has the added unrelated side effect of prolonging the run-time of the battery.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The 85C is "testing parameters" by Cree. Not an absolute. Die temps can change based on how lights are used, how the thermal management is etc. Emitters dont just go to 85C and thats how they run.

THe 25C is the "other test standard" or "previous" and for our case, closer to actual. I have measured temps directly behind a xm-l2 running at 2.5A on a copper direct thermal mcpcb, never got any where near 85C. And my test at max error in that set up would be around 5-7deg C. Hottest I got it was 65C which was enough to trigger thermal shut down on driver (55C iirc at thermal resistor).

This is why copper direct thermal mcpcbs are so good, keeps the die temps lower by transfering heat away from the die faster. Which in turn allows more light, the cooler they run, the more light they produce because less current is wasted as heat.

I did find I read old info, they are better able to handle heat now, so 85C isnt bad, but its still a "testing parameter" not a "operating temperature". Operating temps all depend on application.

Edit: Example, KD2 with its crappy thermal on high, 85C probably, bt40, no way, head barely gets warm with 4 of them cranking out heat. Hell I pushed mine up by about 300mA on the driver, still turbo takes forever to get that head warm.

This is why people do sphere testing, because trying to control and measure exact temp at die outside of a specified lab enviroment is impossible. Me i go off calculations, which may be a bit off due to my "assumed" die temp is a bit lower than actual, but that why I also watch my lux meter close when i first turn light on and watch for any immediate drop like I see with KD2's (which you can see visually)

Edit again (didnt see Cats post). Cat were on the same page, I should have just worded better to start with, less confusing lol.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Aight Cat, got Pics (and video uploading now) of the paved path ride tonight. Freaking rain keeping dirt closed but had to get out and test out the BT40 and my modded mj880 clone.

Bt40: On high not turbo so output matches stock turbo (I slightly boosted mine)










MJ880 Clone: u2 3C on noctigons and running at roughly 2.9A










ssx3 boosted to 1.8A actual, with optics and noctigons. Running full 2A actual was pissing the driver off so I cut it back.










mj880 pic I didnt realize was looking that bad (must have moved when I snapped the pic) and I didnt realize it was pointed too far down (used it for light to ride through town to path)

BT40 Rocks!!!

Oh and tested out the yinding on a bit wider beam set up, goes well with the bt40, while riding looks like i have light FORVER:










Ill post my little "ride" video where i cycle through all 3 lights on the bars.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> The 85C is "testing parameters" by Cree. Not an absolute. Die temps can change based on how lights are used, how the thermal management is etc. Emitters dont just go to 85C and thats how they run.
> 
> THe 25C is the "other test standard" or "previous" and for our case, closer to actual. I have measured temps directly behind a xm-l2 running at 2.5A on a copper direct thermal mcpcb, never got any where near 85C. And my test at max error in that set up would be around 5-7deg C. Hottest I got it was 65C which was enough to trigger thermal shut down on driver (55C iirc at thermal resistor).
> 
> ...


Yes, we are on the same page. I wasn't implying that emitters rise to 85°C immediately or that they always reach that level ( or that they should be operated at that level ). They can however be designed to run at that level if the person building the lamp chooses to do so. Keep in mind these LED's are really designed for other types of lamp use. As users of bike lamps we get to use the design for our own purpose. The people who design the LED drivers with electronic thermal management for bike lamps are trying to help protect the LED's because they KNOW the lamps using them are not going to be able to properly control the heat when used at maximum current levels. Moving on....

I haven't had a lot of time using my KD2 Duo clone. Like you I know the thermal problems with the lamp but considering the crappy thermal design of the emitter area and the relative small size of the lamp I really don't know if there is a lot that can be done about it without major modding. Since I have the BT40S I'm not really too worried about the KD2. It is what it is. It works but like you said, output drops when it starts to heat up. I might mess with it later but right now I just want to ride...Like you I got rained out tonight as well...total PITA. 

About the SSX3; I've considered doing the resistor mode to the driver but if the lamp has thermal cut-off issues that might kick in I'm not sure I'll go that route. I might just go ahead, bite the bullet and get another XT40 ( l like the one I have ) but this time buy the "Neutral" version.

On a side note I'm considering buying a new Gloworm X2 with neutral LED's. I was going to just upgrade one of my old ones but if I did that I would still lose the "programmable" feature of the newer versions. Hummm...maybe I'll send in my newer X2 and just pay for the upgrades...decisions, decisions.


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## dmc71 (May 16, 2015)

Hi, my initial xpg2 datasheet did only go to R3 and this was what I'd used in calculations/assumptions.
R5 does appear to add another 100lms or so.
If the LEDs are running at less than the 85deg C, that would also increase the lumens by around 10% so maybe another 100 overall.
So perhaps we are looking at around 1100lumen (or close to 1200 with 2s2p) from the 13-14w.
The photos look impressive, regardless.
Has anyone compared and photographed the beam from the 2 lenses in the full kit. I wondered how much difference the frosted lens would make.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

dmc71 said:


> ...Has anyone compared and photographed the beam from the 2 lenses in the full kit. I wondered how much difference the frosted lens would make.


I have no photo's of the beam pattern with frosted lens because when I tried it I saw how much it killed the throw. I can't see any real reason to use the frosted lens because ...well...how much flood do you need so close to the bike?...I mean really! Unless you're riding trails with a lot of slow tight turns I see no added advantage to the flood lens. Now if you do chose the flood lens you almost have to run a helmet lamp full time to help fill in the missing throw. You can do that but that means having to run the helmet lamp when otherwise ( with standard optic ) you might not have to.

I think the beam pattern from the standard lens provides a nice mix of flood and throw. I see things very well up close to the bike with the standard optic, even on the lower modes. I WOULD like a little more throw but with quad optics you can't really get everything you want.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Cat, try to dedome one or two leds and you'll get little more throw.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Note to self: I need to do a beam test with distance markers to demonstrate throw. If I can ride tomorrow I'll try to do that. I just hope it doesn't rain again.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I actually got out for a quick spin last night. About an hour in the rain started to come down. Of course that always happens when you are at the furthest point from the trailhead. Anyway the BT40 held up well in the rain for me. About 60 mins of moderate rain and none seemed to get in. Also, it's crazy how little airflow this thing needs to stay cool. It'll warm up a little when still but as soon as you start to move, even a slow climb, it'll cool off fast


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

dmc71 said:


> Hi, my initial xpg2 datasheet did only go to R3 and this was what I'd used in calculations/assumptions.
> 
> R5 does appear to add another 100lms or so.
> 
> ...


I dont go of cree data sheets. Especially when their ratings are "minimum luminous flux". I found independent sphere test results. Also r3-r5 based on cree data puts around 200 more lumens out the head based on cree data (which is low and assuming 85C). That's why I use independent test results, they are more what all of us will actually see in use.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok now I can get current readings more accurate than my dmm set up was doing. Tested against my high end charger readings for the pack and my calculations for driver current. Charger is 1% error and so is meter, calibrated exactly perfect. Then tested against my black yinding which is one I ran tests extensively on. Perfection! Well for me anywa 










Heres BT40 Test: This is mine on turbo though, "high" is same reading as stock. 1.9A. You know me and boosting everything lol.










And video is unedited but here you go: Bt40 on "high" (so turbo for you stock ppl) with yinding on lid starts the ride:






PS: Towards the end of the video you can hear a dog barck and me all the sudden stand and mash briefly, clearing the hole cassette in a hurry. Someones German Shepard got out and dogs in that little neighborhood arent friendly, he was about 50 yrds to my right and as soon as a car passed he darted across the road after me.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I decided to bail out of my planned MTB night ride today. Most of the places around me had a good amount of rain the previous day so I figured best to take the road touring bike out for a spin. The road/paved trail ride went good today. Down side was I was really getting bombarded by gnats for half the ride. It seemed like I was spitting gnats out of my mouth all night.

I could have done another MTB ride at the place I rode last Sunday ( as it was one of a few areas that didn't get much rain ) but I hate to keep riding the same trails over and over ( too soon ). Add to that, last Sunday I got questioned by a local policeman as I was loading my bike onto my car when I got back. _I don't know why but I just hate stuff like that._ It bothers me when I get noticed by police even if they don't give me a hard time. I just like to get my ride in, pack my things in the wagon and take off for home. I could understand it if I was parked in a really dark area near some private homes but generally I park ( out in the open ) in the well lit parking lot of a local school, if one happens to be near the trail head. For me this works. I just hate having to explain to anyone ( but particularly Police ) what I'm doing and why I'm there so late. I figure if you see a guy in bike clothing with a bike close by it should all be self explanatory.

Anyways, the officer last Sunday was really nice and since I always try to be cordial, most times these encounters usually go without incident....but still, I hate being bothered and having to explain things. ( like it's really anyone's business ). Such is life when you routinely finish rides around 12:00 midnight.

Now that I think about it I think I know now why I hate it so much... Usually when I'm finishing up a ride I'm all aglow with a, "I-just-had-a-great-ride!" buzz ( the natural kind ) and then along comes John Law and I have to mentally switch gears, so to speak. Total buzz kill.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Continued from last post:*

...Oh, almost forgot to mention. When I did the road / paved trail ride tonight I was using my standard Gloworm X2 ( cool white ) with a XP-L torch ( cool white ) on the helmet. When it started getting dark enough I turned the GW on. At that time I was riding a stretch of gravel/dirt so with no one else around I turned up the light. It didn't take long before I noticed that I could really tell the difference with the cool white LED's. Not that I couldn't see but the added glare is so noticeable!

Yep, I have a feeling I'm not going to be using any cool white lamps for quite a while. That said I need to get the Gloworms switched over to neutral LED's ASAP.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I guess I have that to look forward to lol. Thankfully the one trail set close by and the bike path, I know the officers in the area, they know my car (cant miss the thing,lol) so no worries there unless a county comes to ask questions since my car will be parked on the shoulder (though oddly its made insanely wide right near that trail head, I assume for horses and cars to park).

Now heading down to all the other trails, I dont know how that will go. But I do get the buzz kill. My wife is great for that "When are you coming home?" "Have you left yet" "Youve been gone too long we need to do..." Thankfully night riding, shell know I leave and thats about it hehe.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK so after a couple rides (still yet to get to dirt  but things starting to open up again) I have 2 complaints:

First off, really need optics options, this would make a redeculous helmet light if it had a good spot optic option.

Other WHICH IS THE BIG ON, the stupid bright leds for the indicator... messes with night vision cause they are SO BRIGHT. I took rear cap off, cut a piece of electric tap and covered them up lol. Now they are only as bright as my Yinding and 880 clone. (SS X3 annoys me with this too but not near as bad as this thing). Putting it on the extension so its lower on the front vs bar mounted its not so bad, but up on the bars.....didnt notice it till I started having to look down more when I hit some "homemade singletrack" (kids going what me and my friends did back in the day when they first paved it and covered our "trails") that runs off to the side of the paved trail.

NITEFIGHTER, dim down those indicator leds PLEASE!!!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Dimming can be made by changing apropriate resistors. Of course this is job only for very skilled people as the resistors are very tiny. Otherwise I agree, manufacturer should do it. 
Maybe it was aimed for urban usage so you can see the status regardles street lights. So, we purchased wrong light ;-) (joking)


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> ...NITEFIGHTER, dim down those indicator leds PLEASE!!!


First thing I did before riding with the lamp was cut out some electrical tape and cover up most of the back. Actually I'm rather annoyed with any lamp with led indicators as they do interfere with night vision ( especially true with the BT40S with it's very large rear button ) . I always cover the indicators. With mine only a little of the light escapes to the sides. This works well otherwise I might have a problem telling the top or bottom of the button which of course is important if you want to make the desired mode change with the two-way button.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> But I do get the buzz kill. My wife is great for that "When are you coming home?"


This.

I hate that question. I hate starting something planning when I'll be done, kills the freedom/enjoyment factor. I never know how long... Sometimes I'll want to do a few laps cause it's so nice out, sometimes I'll have a mechanical failure setting up and just head home and not ride. I spent the majority of 2010 in bum mode (single and not working) and rode every day and almost every night. I wish I had all these lights back then


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Me, too dislike such a questions. But my family was gradually learned that it's pointless asking me about return time when I'm going out for the night ride, and stopped trying long ago...


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Hopefully that will be the case for me one day. For now, with a child on the way, all i can do is seize any time I get clearance to go. Unfortunately for me, most of the times where she actually suggests I go I am either beat down from work or we are about to get a storm or something. Luck just always works against me like that


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

manbeer said:


> Hopefully that will be the case for me one day. For now, with a child on the way, all i can do is seize any time I get clearance to go. Unfortunately for me, most of the times where she actually suggests I go I am either beat down from work or we are about to get a storm or something. Luck just always works against me like that


HA! Sounds like me. I did pickup a kiddie trailer so I could take my little one along (she's 2 now) but I don't think it will work well on mountain bike trails!

Couple pics:
July 2013 @ 7 months old:









April 2014 @ 16months old:









I have a 10yr old too and the problem with bringing her riding is that if it's uphill I need to push her! It's rough pulling the trailer and reaching over and pushing my other daughter, all without running into each other. A guy has to get his rides in somehow though!

Sorry for the off-topic discussion.

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

That's awesome! I have a lot of decent, safe roads a short drive from home so looks like a trailer is on my shopping list for next season! They look like they're having a blast in that last pic!


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Oh well, the trailers available in my country, too - but quite rarely used, despite well developed bike paths. I never wanted one, and used child seat instead: it allowed my (then 3-year) boy to participate even in outdoor family rides:










P.S. *Cat-man-do*, sorry for spoiling your tread! :blush:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Another ride in with the Nitefighter BT40S*

Last nights ride was a local one. No problems with the BT40S. The trails were moist but not muddy. Most of the problems I had came from my helmet lamps. I started out using just a standard XM-L2 T-6 torch but had some problems with it because it wouldn't change modes. Luckily I brought along my neutral SSX3 as well.

Toward the end of the ride I stopped on a particular straight section of the trail to switch to the Gloworm X2 (v3) I have. I wanted to see how each lamp handled the wet-moist trail surface. When I turned the GWX2 to high it was quite clear to me that the GW has the better throw and better over-all beam pattern ( IMO ) ...BUT....I was amazed at how "stark" the GW cool white LED's are. When I switched back to the 40S it was like going from a bright B/W T.V. to a Color T.V. That said, I much prefer the warm natural colors of the trail surface ( brought out by the BT40S ) even if it means sacrificing some throw.

Can't wait to see what the Nitefighter BT21 is going to bring. Hopefully it will show up in a couple weeks. I also need to ship out the Gloworm for neutral LED retro fit. I'll be doing that next week if everything goes as planned. My bet is that the neutral Gloworm will be awesome.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Another ride; Continued*

Last nights ride with the BT40S went as usual, no problems. At the half-way point of the ride I decided to switch out the BT40S with my K/D-2 neutral Duo clone. Since I've not done many rides with the KD2 I thought I should give it a fair test.

First thing I noticed about the KD2 is that it does offer superior throw compared to the BT40S. Actually I was quite surprised at how well it worked. Since the KD2 is programmable all three modes were quite useful. Towards the end of the ride I reprogrammed the low to a little lower since I felt I had it set a little too high. Otherwise it worked very well and I saw no signs of overheating.

The biggest difference between the two lamps I feel was the color rendition of the beam patterns. While the KD2 worked fine I felt as though I got better color rendition ( on trails ) with the BT40S. Maybe the 40S is using LED's that are slightly warmer or perhaps it has to do with the optics being used. Food for thought as I prepare to pack-up my Gloworm X2 for neutral LED retro fit.

Personally I can't wait to get back to using a remote switch again. Trying to fiddle with mode buttons on a lamp head going over bumpy terrain is a hassle. And speaking of such, it was easier changing modes with the BT40S than with the KD2 but that just might have been because I was used to the 40S or because I covered up too much of the indicator LED on the KD2. With the KD2 being so small it was harder to find the switch button so yes, next time I'll use less tape on it.

Sooner of later I'll get to the distance throw test. Maybe tomorrow or maybe not as I was thinking of doing a road ride.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> Personally I can't wait to get back to using a remote switch again. Trying to fiddle with mode buttons on a lamp head going over bumpy terrain is a hassle.


Is it really necessary to actively change the modes on such terrains? I myself also use the remote, but exclusively to switch off the "high-beam" light on the road when oncoming car is approaching. On offroad trails, constant max is used - and till now I've never seen the needs to perform any intensity adjustments "on the fly"...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I like remote for helmet use but on bars I set and forget.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> *Is it really necessary to actively change the modes on such terrains? *I myself also use the remote, but exclusively to switch off the "high-beam" light on the road when oncoming car is approaching. On offroad trails, constant max is used - and till now I've never seen the needs to perform any intensity adjustments "on the fly"...


( *for Mountain biking ) I can't speak for others but when you have a remote on the bars it gives you ability to change modes very easily. While this isn't always necessary ( as you suggest ) it helps prolong the run time of the battery if you want to only use the output that you "Actually" need.

When I use the Gloworm lamps I set the low to a level just bright enough for slow climbs or for when I have to walk. A lot of the trails I ride are in river valleys so at times I have some slow tedious climbs where I have to stop ( rest / walk ) for a bit. Some of those situations are more up/down ( rollercoaster ) fashion where you need to both shift gears and adjust lighting very quickly.

When I ride I tend to be very frugal when it comes to output. If I wanted to I could probably ride with just single cell torches and have no real problem doing a typical 2 hr. night ride. Then again, like most people I enjoy having the freedom to use more light then needed and having extra battery power as a safety feature. On the plus side doing it this way prevents deep discharge of the battery pack which helps extend the useable life of the battery pack. Not to mention that moderating the output helps keep the lamp head from over-heating which almost all lamps will do when used on high full time. I set my bar lamp in the 400 lumen range for most riding and use the full power ONLY for fast / downhill sections. ( * For the BT40S I'm good usually in the 2nd or 3rd mode for all-around riding )

I guess what this boils down too is that I don't mind pushing buttons as long as those buttons are right next to my hand. Nice to be able to both switch gears and switch outputs without having to take a hand off the bars. Now if I could only say that for my helmet light I would be dancing in the street. That's not going to happen though until someone makes a nice compact 1500 plus lumen lamp with great throw and wireless remote. While there are lamps with wireless remote most are quite big / heavy. Not the kind of thing I want mounted to my helmet. What I wouldn't give for a Gloworm XS or X2 "wireless" with neutral LED's. :thumbsup:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

except my helmet light, remote would be cool but no biggy. But I dont ride where you do lol. Midwest hilly singletrack, everywhere ive ridden so far longest loop is 1.5 hrs (but im stopping to take pictures a couple times etc,lol) So wont burn my packs into deep discharge. Each of the trails there are sections where more light will be good, but they are no more than a couple minutes long.

In your case where your riding at the limits of the packs and serious terrain changes I see it making sense. But following Vancbikers helmet idea, quick slap to helmet to change a mode is nothing really for me having the button on the side. 2 remotes on the bars would just confuse the hell outta me lol. I just wish I could find a button like I use for my yinding that has 2 buttons instead of one so I could remote the bt40.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> ( *for Mountain biking ) I can't speak for others but when you have a remote on the bars it gives you ability to change modes very easily. While this isn't always necessary ( as you suggest ) it helps prolong the run time of the battery if you want to only use the output that you "Actually" need.


Ok, valid point if the battery is of limited capacity. As I prefer to have plenty of energy "onboard", I've overlooked that reason...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> ...In your case where your riding at the limits of the packs and serious terrain changes I see it making sense. But following Vancbikers helmet idea, quick slap to helmet to change a mode is nothing really for me having the button on the side. 2 remotes on the bars would just confuse the hell outta me lol. I just wish I could find a button like I use for my yinding that has 2 buttons instead of one so I could remote the bt40.


Actually, rarely do I ride anything at night at the limit of the packs BUT when I do that is a very good reason not to use more light than I need.

For me most of the issue for changing modes is very similar to changing gears. On some of the trails I ride I come down a very fast descent, hit a small flat area and then start to climb immediately. During the moments when I'm down shifting to start the next big climb, sometimes this can be difficult if the terrain is filled with the three "R's"....roots, ruts, rocks. I can usually time it right to take my hand off the bars once ( for helmet ) but I have to be quick so I don't lose momentum. Heck I don't know why I worry about it so much anymore because once I start climbing on a really steep hill I generally have to stop anyway within less than a minute. It does depend though on where I'm riding and how steep the hills are.

BTW, if you do find a remote two-way switch that you can adapt the BT40S to let me know. I like the two-way switch on the 40S.

On a side note; The ride I took last night had a really nice epic style downhill. I've ridden this trail only a couple times. The 40S and SSX3 on the lid were working really nice together. It was dark as hell last night. When I got down to the bottom of the hill I momentarily got confused on what trail to take to get back. This is typical of night riding and sometimes when you can't see all the landmarks ( that normally exist during the day ) you can easily get confused as to "What direction to take". Thankfully I have GPS on my phone for those times when I'm thinking..."WTF...where the hell am I"?.

Not that I would of been in trouble for long since I knew the trail system I was on and knew it's limitations. However if riding a large unfamiliar area with tons of trail intersections getting lost at night could ( or can be ) a major ordeal ( and yes I've had that happen before...and using halogen lighting at the time )...thankfully, the compass I had then helped me out big time. Oh the stories I could tell about getting lost in the days of "halogen lighting" and either having no lamps with me or only one lamp with limited run time. A lot of the lessons on night riding ( or late day riding ) I've learned the hard way....School of Hard Knocks.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Luckily none of my local trails are like that. They are set up with a central loop and all expansions loop back to the center loop before the next expansion is available. But we don't have the land and terrain here to make trails that big and crazy.


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

Quick question on the BT40S. I just ordered the kit from GearBest (thanks for the group buy!) and was wondering if the battery is USB charged or standard 110v outlet charged?

I haven't seen any pics of the batteries that come with the kit so I'm in the dark until it arrives (ha! pun intended).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Standard wall charger. Yet to see a USB charger with any of these decent lights especially when charge time would be alot longer (these prices they wouldn't give us 2Amp USB chargers )

But its just like any other kit. Easy enough will work with other chargers for lights etc.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

KevinGT said:


> Quick question on the BT40S. I just ordered the kit from GearBest (thanks for the group buy!) and was wondering if the battery is USB charged or standard 110v outlet charged?
> 
> I haven't seen any pics of the batteries that come with the kit so I'm in the dark until it arrives (ha! pun intended).


Yes, standard wall charger ( as per tigress99 ). The charger looks very much like the ones provided with the Magicshine lights. This doesn't surprise me as the BT40S looks very much like the MS 872.

And speaking of USB charging; Just the other day I happened to notice that none of the USB ports on my computer were working. I only noticed this because when I tried to charge my rear lamp for my road set-up I couldn't get the plug into the port. Seems I manage to break both at about the same time. What a F. From what I'm reading the only way to replace the ports is to replace the mother board...:madman:..:incazzato:
Sure, I can buy a plug-in USB charger with USB ports no problem with that but if I need to hook up anything to my computer to transfer data I'm ( now ) screwed.

...Going forward, anyone who is charging their small lamps off of their computer USB ports....You really don't want to use your computer ports. Go buy a plug in charger with USB ports. Wish I had known this before....Oh, almost forgot to mention. I found out how this happened. It seems I have at least one USB plug/cable that is not made to work with my computer ( It has no empty slot, completely solid. More than likely I tried to use it at some point and it broke both ports...Now if that ain't the screw you didn't see coming... :incazzato: )

( edit...read my next post to find out "why this ^ happened. )


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Doesn't everyone have a tablet or smart phone with USB charger???


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Doesn't everyone have a tablet or smart phone with USB charger???


Yes, but most people likely charge their tablet or smart phone with a USB mini or micro wall charger. Of course the whole concept of USB charging was to use the USB ports on the typical computer to provide the charge voltage. This means you use a USB to USB mini or micro adapter to charge your device on the computer. Everytime I buy a device that uses either micro or mini USB I get another adapter. I must have about 10 of these cords floating around the home.

I already have a mico USB wall charger ( and car charger ) for the phone. I don't have a mini-USB wall charger though, which is what my rear blinkies use. I need one of these now but in the mean time I am using the USB ports on my old computer for charging.

Okay, I think I figured out what happened. One of the plastic pieces inside one of my ports broke off and lodged itself inside one of my USB plugs. Obviously I had no idea at the time that took place. Later I likely tried to use the same adapter in the other port and that port ended up breaking as well because I ( stupidly ) kept trying to jam it in. :bluefrown: Anyway, moments ago I found the USB plug that was blocked up and with a small screw driver I removed the piece of plastic that was blocking the slot on the plug. The biggest screw in all this is that I had plans of buying a new digital camera. Hopefully the camera will allow direct download from the SD card. My computer has a couple card readers so hopefully I'll be good.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So not realizing that "breaking in" packs mattered so much, I broke in the bt21 pack (capacity test) and now broke in my 2 Panasonic 2 cell packs (in mj880 and mudder cases) and my bt40 pulls 3A now . So pushing about 1.3-1.4A per emitter on turbo. Its about on the ridiculous side of things now lol. Especially with s3 bin emitters in it as well. Does get pretty warm if left on high or turbo at low speed but other than that its pretty insane. Figured it beat out my modded mj880 clone....nope cause now it runs at true 3A per emitter on l2 u2 3c. But its pretty dang close.

Ps: I thought of something. There's gotta be a simple way to make a charger unit run off a USB port. Gotta learn more about electronics cause I believe there's a way to regulate 12v in from a car to 8.4 out (and/or 8.7 for high voltage cells) and use a protection circuit for a cut off since that's all it is anyway. Protection on oack or in charger, same thing.

Where's Archie, he should be able to help me.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

But that won't provide a proper CC/CV charging algorithm. They do make some CC/CV charger boards and I think Mtn Elec sells them (otherwise all over Ebay). There is a thread over at BLF about using / tweaking them started by user ComfyChair. It was back when we had extremely few options for charging 4.35v cells. 

I have a project (3 years in the making now) where I am powering 2 XM-L2's from an Ebay adjustable voltage module board for headlights on my riding mower (there's a thread on BLF about it). I'm thinking now to just swap out my XM-L2's to XHP50'S (since the XHP50'S use XM-L optics) so I can get about 3,000 to 4,000 out the front of my mower!  

-Garry


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Ps: I thought of something. There's gotta be a simple way to make a charger unit run off a USB port. Gotta learn more about electronics cause I believe there's a way to regulate 12v in from a car to 8.4 out (and/or 8.7 for high voltage cells) and use a protection circuit for a cut off since that's all it is anyway. Protection on oack or in charger, same thing.
> 
> Where's Archie, he should be able to help me.


I'm still here, at least partially. 

Using battery's protection PCB as an "end of charge switch" is bad idea: they're typically have higher triggering voltage, and in addition it's too early to disconnect the power at that stage: lithium needs second phase (constant voltage) to reach full capacity.

For car charger, you may use DIY boards available on eBay - for example, my first 8.7V charger was made of this one:
LM2596 DC DC Step Down Adjustable CC CV Power Supply Module Converter LED Driver | eBay
Just find appropriate case, and add fused cigarette lighter plug.

Of course, you'll need to tune-up the pots to the required values of voltage, current and indication.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I think that's the same board I referred to and ComfyChair posted nice diagrams and instructions on how to adjust it.

Here's the link (but looks like his pic links are dead): eBay adjustable CC/CV module for 4.3v cell charging? | BudgetLightForum.com

-Garry


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes, the same thing: it just cheaper at my link. BTW, it requires good cooling, because of significant amount of heat produced even at 1A current...


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I see that KD just added the NiteFighter BT40S. A few cents cheaper than GearBest.

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Wow, interesting, Garry! Saw a little while ago where GearBest is now offering free e-packet delivery, has anyone here tried that (as opposed th Netherlands Post or whatever)? Because I recently ordered some LEDs on eBay from a few sites in China, said e-packet, each got to me in a week of shipping (two were sent out same-day.) Wonder whether Kaidomain is going with e-packet yet.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I always try to go with "ePacket" delivery when I can, so this is good news with GearBest. Their shipping has always been their downside.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya except kaidomain has the absolute slowest shipping ive ever seen. I actually haven't bought from them since the first attempt because of how badly they lied and how long it took for them to actually ship my order (versus when they told me it shipped)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I agree. Kaidomain isn't on my list of top sellers. They actually lost an order of mine (my "KD2"), acknowledged that, said they would ship it right out, but weeks later I had to threaten a PayPal dispute to get it moving. The next order came really really quick though (my KD Programmable drivers) and even included a free Christmas gift (keychain light). 

GearBest hasn't been great with shipping either, but that's been the trade off to get things at good deals. I still seem to have the best success with FastTech (US suppliers aside) even after all the grumbling by BLF Users. FastTech isn't what they used to be, but they have been decent for me.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

See ive never had an issue on personal orders via gearbest. Except they have an apparent bug in checkout with shipping, I select express for DHL shipping, but last couple orders (price for DHL was lower than normal) went some screwy way that went through USPS, so took a week after it hit the states.

Fasttech well find out I just placed my first order there for some Samsung protected cells that were on sale. See if 2 week time frame using USPS battery shipping is real or not.

Not sure what's going on these companies are great for a while then go down hill. But except the mj880 clone I haven't a need for KD. And I paid for an mj880 clone via amazon instead just to save the headache.


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## ChaseMe (May 13, 2010)

Just got my BT40, seems great and all but I'm not 100% sure how to change the lens? Do I unscrew the silver ring with the notches in the front?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya unscrew the ring. I would ride with it first unless your experimenting cause the other lens is even more flood than the stock one iirc.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ChaseMe said:


> Just got my BT40, seems great and all but I'm not 100% sure how to change the lens? Do I unscrew the silver ring with the notches in the front?


Yes, I call that the retaining ring. You can wedge a small tipped screw driver in one of the notches and push counter-clockwise. Be careful. If the screw driver slips you don't want to scratch the lens.


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## ChaseMe (May 13, 2010)

Ok cool thanks, I am just curious to see what it's like. I was able to get it to unscrew using opened needle nose pliers turning from 2 notches.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya that's how I did mine, needle nose fit perfect. Just be careful to put the oring back underneath


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## jjswee (Feb 26, 2012)

First off, thanks to everyone for all the great reviews.

I'm looking to get a light to mount on my bar for when my evening rides go a little long. I am not looking for nighttime riding light just yet (no head lamp).

My friend lent me a SSX3 last time we rode and it was nice. Never used a light before. I was going to just go get one myself but I did the wrong thing and started researching. Oh god I spend too much time researching everything. That brought me to the lights section of MTBR.

From my basic searching and reading I've come down to getting the BT40S on gearbest. (link| GearBest.com) or getting a SSX3 with XML here( link | Amazon.com)

Is the XML SSX3 in the link above considered a neutral light? Does XM-L U2 = XML2 as you guys are posting?

Is the BT40s kit worth the extra cost? I read somewhere of a guy comparing it to the BT40 and it BT40 seemed to throw a little better, but the SSX3 seemed to light in front the wheel better but I've read the SSX3's are spotty. I would prefer the light closer by more as I would just ride slow in the dark anyways.

Thanks for any suggestions you guys might have.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

@jjswee, no that lamp on Amazon is neither neutral white nor XM-L2, it is just the earlier generation of XM-L. The batteries it comes with will most likely be crap. The Nitefighter BT40S kit on GearBest will come with a high quality battery pack and charger which together would retail for the cost of the entire package — $50 COUPON CODE: NBT40TG . And the Nitefighter has a really great interface, you can change modes in either direction and don't have to cycle through Off. Makes a great bar lamp with decent throw. Choose the free ePacket delivery at checkout for fastest shipping.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

jjswee said:


> ...From my basic searching and reading I've come down to getting the BT40S on gearbest. (link| GearBest.com) or getting a SSX3 with XML here( link | Amazon.com)
> 
> Is the XML SSX3 in the link above considered a neutral light? Does XM-L U2 = XML2 as you guys are posting?
> 
> ...


Adding to what AC said; Since you are looking for a lamp with neutral LED's and want a bar lamp I think it safe to say the BT40S is just what you are looking for. It comes with a good battery and very useable User Interface ( up/down switching ). If you're looking for light close to the front wheel, this lamp has it.

The SSX3 is a decent lamp as well but can only be bought with neutral XM-L2 LED's from Gearbest. I use the SSX3 ( neutral ) as a helmet lamp since the X3 is using reflectors for more of a spot ( with added throw ). Combo'd with the BT40S they make a great neutral white two lamp system. If you want the BT40S you can also buy it on Amazon but right now it is listed at almost twice the cost of what you can get it on Gearbest. Amazon is almost sold out too although they are still selling only the lamp for about $30. If you want one Gearbest is your best choice at the moment. Takes about 18 days to reach east coast USA. ( On a side note I'm worried when I see Amazon run out of full sets of the BT40S's. That must mean there is some hold up on the availability of the batteries. )


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## jjswee (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks guys! I'll go ahead and pick up the bt40.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ull be really happy especially if u get the kit (check group buy thread for discount codes if you want) battery pack is awesome for the price. 

I love my bt40 good solid light.


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## jjswee (Feb 26, 2012)

I checked the group buy and clicked the link. The price is already 50 dollars. Do I not need the coupon code?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Guess you don't need the code right now, jjswee, looks like GearBest is running another promotion right now at the same discounted price.


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## jjswee (Feb 26, 2012)

I am thinking of getting the bt21. Might as well. The kit comes with the four cell battery. I would use it as a head lamp. In one of your reviews you guys had a two cell battery. Do I want to only purchase the lamp itself?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Might want to pickup that 2 cell Fenix case before they're all gone. Price marked down on that one too. 

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

jjswee said:


> I am thinking of getting the bt21. Might as well. The kit comes with the four cell battery. I would use it as a head lamp. In one of your reviews you guys had a two cell battery. Do I want to only purchase the lamp itself?


My thoughts on the BT21 ; The bt21 is a bright lamp. When on high it is drawing some major amps. With a good two cell it should run maybe 1.5 to 1.3 hrs. on high. With mid-level mode perhaps longer. Personally I wouldn't recommend a two-cell set-up unless you are dead set on putting the whole set-up on the helmet. In my opinion it's still too much weight on the helmet but to each their own. Otherwise I would recommend getting the whole kit with 4-cell, unless you already have another 4-cell you can trust.

~ ~ Last night I took a quick spin with the BT21 again. This time I was using a freshly charged older 4-cell Bikeray battery. Once again ( used on the bars ) I noticed that as soon as I put the lamp into the higher modes the battery indicator changed color to blue. This doesn't necessarily mean anything other than the indicator is very sensitive to changes in power draw but it does highlight that the lamp is drawing some power. At some point the indicator will turn red and then blink red when it is about to turn off. Of course if it's on your head you can't see the color changes so if you use a two cell on the lid it would be smart to always carry a back-up.

As for me, when I use lamps like these I always use a 4-cell ( at least 5200mAh battery pack ) with extension cord ( included in kit ) and set the battery in my hydration pack. When I want to go "wireless" on the helmet I will always go with just a torch/one cell set-up and carry back-up cells. The lighter the set-up on the helmet the better. The more weight you put on top of a helmet the more it changes the center of gravity of the helmet ( making it top-heavy ). This translates over to the helmet sliding around on your head more. Unless you have no problem tightening the straps on the helmet real tight I'd recommend keeping the battery off the helmet. Perhaps with a better helmet set-up it might work better but my helmet is old, the strap system is antiquated and the padding is old and worn. If I tighten the straps real tight it is very uncomfortable.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You bring up a good point about low voltage indication not being seen with the light on your helmet. Flashlights with Nanjg drivers will drop to low and flash at 3.0v so you'd definitely see that and have some light to get stopped and swap cells. 

Running a BT21 on a 2 cell pack you may want to consider running high drain cells (for less voltage sag to keep max output longer).

-Garry


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## jjswee (Feb 26, 2012)

Interesting catmando. Im not a fan of cords going to my helmet. I have a inner helmet speaker system for paragliding and I have an extension cord connected to a radio on my harness. I hate that damn cord. I always forget about it then it pulls on my head as I drop the harness. 

Do head lamps really help? How much does the head-controllable light help when biking?

What about two bt40s on the bar angled differently with one facing more downwards in front of the wheel?

The single cell lightweight light sounds like a better idea than a cord.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I run 2 cell pack for bt21 on my lid no issues for me. Running Panasonic cells I get 2 hrs easily on high mode with bt21. Turbo (which you don't really need much) ya is down just above an hour.

I dont see a point in the indicator as you'll notice the light dimming about the same time the indicator would go red anyway.

Helmet light isn't a need depending on how and where you ride. Do I need one where I ride, no not 99% of the time. Is it nice to have something that lights up where im looking not just in front, oh ya.

Problem here is both lights are great so depends on what your after. If you need a bit more range (throw) bt21 does that and puts out a bit more light. But bt40 has a much smoother and even light pattern in front of you. And no need to use 2 and point different directions., bt40 covers both put front and down near the tires pretty well.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

jjswee said:


> ...*Do head lamps really help? How much does the head-controllable light help when biking?*
> 
> What about two bt40s on the bar angled differently with one facing more downwards in front of the wheel?
> 
> The single cell lightweight light sounds like a better idea than a cord.


For typical off road single track I would consider it mandatory. On twisty tight single track there are moments when the bike is pointed one direction and you need to look in another. For those moments you WILL need a helmet light if you want to maintain momentum. This doesn't mean you will have to run the helmet lamp full time or on full power all the time. I let my bar lamp do most of the work. Then when I know I'll need to see more I'll turn the helmet lamp on. Of course if I'm running a dedicated bike lamp on the helmet ( with 4-cell battery ) I can run the lamp more if I want to without worry ). Keep in mind having a two lamp system has the added advantage of providing a safety net in case one lamp were to fail you will have a second on stand-by.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Hi all, hey cat I haven't been on here for a while but I'm interested in getting a neutral white bar light and this one looks like it fits the bill for me. I have two of the glowworm x2 lights and probably will send one in for the neutral white upgrade for my helmet needs. I'm not happy with the cool white lights after recently buying a couple neutral white flashlights and trying them out with some bar mounts I had I am totally sold on neutral white now. I have one in my cart at amazon with the light head only. Am I correct in thinking that the glowworm battery packs will work with this light head? I hope so. Thanks in advance.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Just noticed the BT40S lighthead only version on Amazon looks different in the pictures there from the the one they sell in the full package; rather than the fins being concentric, they are oriented horizontally like the MagicShine's. Also illustrations say BT40, not BT40S, though specs are of the S version. Solo BT40S offered on eBay and GB seem to be same as offered in full package. Wonder which version Amazon actually ships, maybe there was just a mix up in pics?


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

Question for you experts.

I just got my BT40S kit and it came with a battery pack. I know there are some very specific charging steps you guys have learned to extend the battery life and ensure optimal performance. Can you share them?

I don't know what batteries came with mine but could take the pack apart to find out if needed.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They all come with same batteries, at least for now. So no need there. Im working on researching the BAK cells now. Performance of pack is true to spec but long story short, I had to change connector in mine. So already opened it. Was MY fault not fault of pack.

That said, pack is of no worries all good.

For use

Charge fully before first use

Do not run down to protection circuit tripping if at all possible. Not easy to do as you get a ton of warning (including lights dimming down alot).

Dont store more than a few days fully charged. Will cut functional life span of pack almost in half. Figure you want the cells stored between 50 and 75%. So from fully charged around 1.5hrs on medium setting for the light will bring pack down into storage range.

Good idea to run first use after fully charged down close to where protection is going to kick in. So the warning of low voltage on the light. Breaks the pack in.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Good idea to run first use after fully charged down close to where protection is going to kick in. So the warning of low voltage on the light. Breaks the pack in.


I hate to contradict what you've said, but everything I've read about Lithium Ion cells says there is no need (or benefit from) performing the sort of break in you're describing... running the pack down low really does nothing other than shorten the life of the pack slightly. I believe many of these recommendations regarding breaking in battery packs are left over from the days of Nickel-metal hydride batteries that did require a few cycles of use to obtain full capacity.

The only situation I know of where running the pack down to cut off can be of benefit is with devices with smart battery management circuits (laptop computers, smartphones, etc.) that keep track of the actual capacity and % used of the battery and need to be "re-calibrated" due to the cells losing some of their capacity with age.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Some very good information on best practices for charging lithium batteries:

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> Hi all, hey cat I haven't been on here for a while but I'm interested in getting a neutral white bar light and this one looks like it fits the bill for me. I have two of the glowworm x2 lights and probably will send one in for the neutral white upgrade for my helmet needs. I'm not happy with the cool white lights after recently buying a couple neutral white flashlights and trying them out with some bar mounts I had I am totally sold on neutral white now. I have one in my cart at amazon with the light head only. *Am I correct in thinking that the glowworm battery packs will work with this light head?* I hope so. Thanks in advance.


I can't think of any reason why not. Standard MS type connectors. If you think you might need another battery I really do recommend getting the full kit. The batteries included with these lamps have been very good 5200mAh BAK batteries. These are the same type batteries that were included with the very first Bikeray bike lights. I used those Bikeray batteries with my Gloworms for years and only now are they reaching the point where I am considering replacing them.

I too am considering having my Gloworms upgraded to neutral white. I was holding off because the emitters they are using are of "3C" tint ( 4700-5000K ). I think the Nitefighter lamps are using 4C which is slightly warmer but I need confirmation on that. Then again, it might not make that much difference because like you my very first neutral lamp was a torch. Turns out that torch was using standard XM-L T6 with a 3C tint and with that said I was very impressed with it.

Anyway, I was holding out for 4C but I might just go ahead and have one of my older Gloworms converted to the newer 3C XM-L2. The Gloworms lamps have such a good beam pattern that they are indeed really hard to live without, especially once you get used to having the remote. Go ahead and give the BT40S a try, I bet you'll like it. I like mine ( of course mine was free ) and because they are pretty cheap ( as in inexpensive ) I was thinking of buying another light head and running two on a Y-cable just for the heck of it. Then again I already have a BT21 so if I want to try two lamps on the bars I can do that. In the meantime I'm waiting for the BT70 to be released. Maybe I'll get one of those too but first I want to know a little more about it.

The BT40S is a very nice useable bar lamp for the money. All the modes are quite useable and the two-way up/down mode switch I find to my liking ( for a lamp without a remote ). should hold up reasonably well in a rain for a Chinese made lamp. Good lamp, good battery, good price...win, win, WIN.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

kwarwick said:


> I hate to contradict what you've said, but everything I've read about Lithium Ion cells says there is no need (or benefit from) performing the sort of break in you're describing... running the pack down low really does nothing other than shorten the life of the pack slightly. I believe many of these recommendations regarding breaking in battery packs are left over from the days of Nickel-metal hydride batteries that did require a few cycles of use to obtain full capacity.
> 
> The only situation I know of where running the pack down to cut off can be of benefit is with devices with smart battery management circuits (laptop computers, smartphones, etc.) that keep track of the actual capacity and % used of the battery and need to be "re-calibrated" due to the cells losing some of their capacity with age.


I just did it via 4 different packs from stock pack to Sanyo and Panasonic cells. Output increase was increased between .1 and .3 amps across all of them and running down close to but above 3v per cell (6v) doesn't hurt them at all.. Down below to 2.5v cut off is bs on many. Not sure if previous post had numbers in it. High end cells like Panasonic it doesn't matter my sanyos and stock pack for this both was noticable jump.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> I just did it via 4 different packs from stock pack to Sanyo and Panasonic cells. Output increase was increased between .1 and .3 amps across all of them and running down close to but above 3v per cell (6v) doesn't hurt them at all.. Down below to 2.5v cut off is bs on many. Not sure if previous post had numbers in it. High end cells like Panasonic it doesn't matter my sanyos and stock pack for this both was noticable jump.


I'm not sure its wise to make general statements like "doesn't hurt them at all" unless you've actually done long term tests with batteries that have been deep discharged like that. The "hurt" may not necessarily be apparent unless you are expecting to get the maximum life out of the cells. The difference could be getting 250 or 500 vs. 1000 discharge/charge cycles... does it matter for bike lights... maybe not for most of us. Regardless, telling people to perform a deep discharge to break in battery packs is not good advice.

If you don't believe me, here's yet another link supporting what I'm saying: Debunking Battery Life Myths for Mobile Phones, Tablets, and Laptops


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

If you going to post links please do so for facts and test results not blogs. My information comes from countless hours researching and test results of my own on top of that.







Like missing the fact that voltage under load vs actual discharge state of the battery are completely different but protection circuits dont know that. So protection trips just inside safe range for cells. So running them down till the light turns red with the light on means little, cause when you turn the light off what happens, it goes green or blue or whatever is mid range again. So cells are un damaged. 





Cells "at rest" cannot go below 3-3.5 per cell mostly (except a few) but under load dropping to 3v per cell hurts absolutely nothing.

Not trying to be rude but im using facts ur using blogs.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> If you going to post links please do the math and the actual research. Secondly voltage under load and actual deep discharge ARE 2 DIFFERENT THINGS. 3V under load is still safe maximum discharge for most cells. Panasonic you can dip to 2.5.
> 
> Everything the article you posted actually agrees with everything I said. But need to do the research on batteries beyond blogs to know that.


I think you're missing the point I've been trying to make. There is no value at all in "breaking in" a lithium ion battery by draining it down as you originally advised and no cell manufacturers recommend doing so. Show me where the articles I've linked to suggest this is a good practice?

In normal use, its up to you how much you want to discharge the battery before charging it back up again, but the point these articles make is the more deeply one discharges the battery the shorter the overall life of the battery will be (see Table 2 below).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Done with ^^^, just dumb. Give people the facts based on real world application and hands on testing and they still argue.



Anyway, going to hit the trails again tomorrow night. Hopefully get a good video of using this for a bar light.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

kwarwick said:


> I think you're missing the point I've been trying to make. There is no value at all in "breaking in" a lithium ion battery by draining it down as you originally advised and no cell manufacturers recommend doing so. Show me where the articles I've linked to suggest this is a good practice?
> 
> In normal use, its up to you how much you want to discharge the battery before charging it back up again, but the point these articles make is the more deeply one discharges the battery the shorter the overall life of the battery will be (see Table 2 below).
> 
> View attachment 993827


Hey guys, not to take anyone's side but I just wanted to point out some things as both are making some very good points. Like kwarwick said most experts agree that deep discharge of a Li-ion battery is not a good thing..however, the occasional deep discharge isn't going to hurt the battery significantly. That warning applies to people who are "routinely" giving their Li-ion batteries deep discharges.

Personally I've never felt the need to cycle a Li-ion battery before use. Once again, depending on the quality of the battery and the charger being used I can see a place for charging a Li-ion battery from depletion if you have the right equipment.

As I see it the best way to do this would be to completely discharge the ( new ) battery from it's initial storage charge ( which is usually somewhere around 40% charge ) and do this using a small load discharge, somewhere around 1A or less. Once at cutoff you give the battery time to rebound and then do it again. Don't over-discharge though. Go too far and the battery might lose polarity orientation. Anyway, once that is done you then initiate a very slow low amp charge. To do this properly you would likely need a hobby charger. With the appropriate slow charge settings the battery might take 10 or more hours to charge. This could possible give the cells in the battery more time to equalize. Not to mention more time to top off the charge at the end of the cycle...assuming you have the right kind of charger using the right charging pattern, etc.,etc.

All the literature I've read has always indicated that slow charging is more beneficial than fast charging when it comes to Li-ion batteries. I figure there must be a reason for that. If the battery was previously in storage for some time prior to being sold this might indeed be beneficial particularly if the cells are not well matched or if the quality of the cells are lacking. Just how much this makes a difference like I said before depends on the cells being used and the charger used to charge them.

Other than that I really doubt that using a standard bike charger to charge a new Li-ion battery from depletion would really add a significant amount of run time to a typical 4-cell battery unless the cells in that battery each had significantly different self-discharge characteristics. Whatever, it really isn't going to hurt though unless you are doing it every week. So hey, "If you think it helps, knock yourself out". :thumbsup:

BTW, there was some guy over on CPF that was a real absolute battery expert / engineer / wizard. That guy knew some major battery s***. He made his living working with batteries for the government I believe. Wish I had the link so you could pick his brain. The stuff I wrote is just stuff I've gleaned from Battery University over the years and some of my own opinions.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

ya those are the links im trying to find, so I can help that guy understand. Heck you discharge lower than I do, 3V per cell (unless using crappy cells for cut off tests on the head) UNDER LOAD, so 3.4-3.5 static (as I read from those guys) and thats playing it safe. Batteries like panasonics can handle deep discharge better, occasional 2.5v under load doesnt hurt them really.

I only did it with stock pack to I do capacity test and found those cells liked the "break in". Next use from full charge I gained 300mA substained current. Panasonic pack I pulled down to about 3.1V per cell there wasnt much of a change (but they had been cycled a few times already).

All i wanted to point out is on the STOCK PACK it helps to bring them down into the red (on the light head), you gain some output current thus lumens out the front. ANd doing it once wont hurt anything. Espeically when it goes up to optimal voltage range static (and thats how those guys explain how to check for true safe discharge, not under load, but static no load).

Anyway, back on topic


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

So I took my light out into the backyard last night just to see how it looked. Here are my thoughts/observations/questions.

- Packaging was very good. For $50, I expected a plastic bag and some tape. It's definitely a well-thought out kit.
- Came were more accessories than I expected. Helmet mount? Nice. Three rubber rings for bar mounts. Extension cable. Velcro tape. Nice.
- Battery bag is very thick and solid. Again, more than I expected.
- Also came with what looks like a spare/alternate lens. It looks like more of a diffusing type. Not sure of the difference.
- Light head is tiny! And also very "solid" feeling? My 1990s vintage Nightsun felt very fragile compared to this light.
- The back LED is very bright. Wondering if I may need to mask it so it's not affecting my vision.
- Without charging the pack, I connected the light and the back LED went to green...then quickly to blue. Normal? I expected it to be blue (50% - 75% charge).
- The two button design was a bit unexpected. The top button lowers the setting and does nothing when you are at the lowest. The bottom button raises the setting and does nothing when it's at the highest. I thought these lights normally cycled through modes. 
- There was less of a difference between modes than I expected. It's bright...don't get me wrong, but the incremental change from one mode to the next was smaller than I thought it would be.

Basically, the entire kit and system is far better than I expected at this price. Can't wait to try it in combat conditions! Thanks for the group buy!


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

KevinGT said:


> - The two button design was a bit unexpected. The top button lowers the setting and does nothing when you are at the lowest. The bottom button raises the setting and does nothing when it's at the highest. I thought these lights normally cycled through modes.
> - There was less of a difference between modes than I expected. It's bright...don't get me wrong, but the incremental change from one mode to the next was smaller than I thought it would be.


Well that would explain why they're being sold so cheap, sounds like they've all been assembled wrong! Kevin, by unscrewing the back you can rotate the PCB 180º so that + and - Brightness will make a lot more sense. Just make sure to tamp down the white retainer securely so that it stays firmly in place when you screw it back together.









Yeah the increments do seem close but that's partly due to the fade between modes which disguises the differences.

Anyway, glad the BT40S exceeded your expectations.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

I want to thank Cat-man-do for chiming in and offering a middle ground perspective. 

Tigris, just to give you some perspective I've been tinkering in electronics for 40+ years and have built quite a few of my own lights and battery packs so I also have a bit real world hands on experience. 

My comments are not just from blogs, but from many years of experience with batteries and reading a variety of industry tech documentation. I was simply providing some quickly available links to illustrate what is generally considered to be facts about Lithium Ion battery technology. By the way I believe Battery University is considered to be an authoritative source of information, not just some random blog...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I was on my phone taking brief looks didn't realize battery university was in there. But the stuff you were posting (especially the second one) was arguing against yourself. There is alot more science behind using these and imho putting a "scare"into people saying that if they use their packs for more than a few minutes or use them at all if its hot or cold out IS NOT constructive or useful. It turns people away.

My information was reality. Ive dealt with lithium tech batteries for about 10yrs I know the ins an outs and how to kill a battery vs keep one going for years (lithium poly batteries are far more sensitive than these as ive learned)

Yes your info is correct basic info, but just drives people away from night riding by scaring them away from being able to use rechargeable batteries because they take too much to make last. Which they don't.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I just get em and use em. Until this year I abused the **** out of my batteries. I'm talking storing near empty or full sometimes for 6 months at a time. Storing in freezing car for months etc. I've had few issues...after 3 to 5 years my original MS packs all died due to the sprotection circuits failing and corrosion/rust eating away the wires. My Gemini packs are now about 4 years old and the 4 cells still hold 95% rated capacity but the 6 cells don't. The 6 cells seem to be more related to a balance issue so this is worthy of consideration. Since I have gotten more into this stuff over the winter and gotten a ton more equipment this is my observation- some packs seem to gain a bit more capacity after a few discharge cycles while some do not. I don't know why it is but I've seen it go either way. No matter what your philosophy, batteries will last a while and have been getting cheaper. Even if you only get 150 charge cycles out of them, it's still several years of riding for the average Joe, for what? 30 or 40 bucks? In my case, and I think most others, we have so many batteries that they will die from old age before anything related to charges or discharges. So everyone just needs to ride and whatever works for you is fine imo


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

andychrist said:


> Just noticed the BT40S lighthead only version on Amazon looks different in the pictures there from the the one they sell in the full package; rather than the fins being concentric, they are oriented horizontally like the MagicShine's. Also illustrations say BT40, not BT40S, though specs are of the S version. Solo BT40S offered on eBay and GB seem to be same as offered in full package. Wonder which version Amazon actually ships, maybe there was just a mix up in pics?


I didn't notice this until you mentioned it. I went ahead and ordered just the light head off amazon so we will see what I get and I'll let you know.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Cat, thanks for your reply. I'll try the light head only for now as I really only use one of my glowworm batteries at a time so I might as well put the other to use. That along with a glowworm neutral on the helmet should keep me happy for a while until the next upgrade bug hits. Hopefully the other light manufacturers come around with some neutral white offerings too. I really am a huge fan of external or remote switches so that is my only negative I can see with the Nitefighter. 

On another note, yesterday another neutral white flashlight I had ordered came in the mail so it gave me another toy to play with. It's a Nitecore P36 flashlight that takes 2x 18650s, 2,000 lumen, with a nice mix of flood and throw out to 300 meters. I like the beam a lot and I think it's going to be one of my favorites. I might rig up a bar mount and test that on the bike this weekend just for fun. My co-workers always comment on how I'm really into my lights, but I think they are just jealous. Ha


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Well said manbeer! I too abuse my cells and don't do anything to try to keep them at their peak! I've recently tested an old Chinese trustfire cell and it tested unchanged in capacity (didn't pay attention to voltage curve though). The second in that pair of trustfires was completely dead though. We'll likely move on to the "latest & greatest" before current cells are too badly affected. 

This is mostly experience with single cells for flashlight use. I could see if a user only used 2S2P packs for a part of a year where it would be beneficial to store near the proper storage voltage (3.80v per cell, so 7.60v on a 2S pack).

Remember, laptops are full of 18650'; how many people baby them vs. abuse them?

-Garry


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> There is alot more science behind using these and imho putting a "scare" into people saying that if they use their packs for more than a few minutes or use them at all if its hot or cold out IS NOT constructive or useful. It turns people away.


OK, just need to rebut this one last time and then I'll leave it be as this has probably sidetracked the thread enough... you're entitled to their opinion of course, but I fail to see how my original statement that Lithium Ion batteries don't like to be broken in by fully discharging them would "scare" people? Its not terribly good for them... just don't do it... pretty simple advice really.

Keep in mind the OP asked a straight up question about the care and feeding of his battery and you gave him advice which goes against common wisdom on Lithium Ion batteries.

Enough said I think... let us resume discussing our insatiable need to collect, modify and compare bike lights.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Alright here video I did using bt40s on the bars (sorry camera did ok but still actually brighter by quite a bit)


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Alright here video I did using bt40s on the bars (sorry camera did ok but still actually brighter by quite a bit)


I think what the video fails to show the most is how much the two lamps can illuminate the surrounding terrain. Looking at the video you would think the beam pattern more narrow but in actuality with two lamps going you have lots of things lighting up as you ride along. "Still photos" IMO are better at illustrating total beam pattern. Video cameras just aren't as sensitive to light fluctuations as the human eye is. That's one of the reasons I don't spend a lot of time looking at night videos. ( tig, not dissing your videos. Always fun to see the types of terrain people are riding ).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya I know, im hoping to find a video camera I can afford that does better or adjustable. My camera was $100 so I didn't expect much lol.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

I received my BT40s lighthead only and it works perfectly with the gloworm x2 batteries I have. The version I received looks identical to the ones posted here even though amazon had a different pic up for a while so they just had their pic wrong. I fired it up and realized the brightness levels up and down were reversed so I opened the back and rotated the switch around to the proper way and carefully put it back together and it works great now. Thanks Cat and others for the info you posted here it was helpful. The power indicator is way too bright so I taped over it to block most of it out and its good now. I havent been on a ride yet just shined it around the yard and it looks like a nice beam and the tint is just what I hoped for. I think I'm going to really like this beam on the bars. I do wish they offered a spot optic because that would really compliment this beam nicely. I would buy another one if they did

I will have to send in my gloworm x2 soon to get it upgraded to neutral white and together they should compliment each other nicely. The brightness levels are pretty decent, but I really would have liked one more level even lower like at about 100 lumens or so. It would have been great if they had it like an economy level that you had to hold down the button for to activate. This would be more useful when using the light on a headband where lower levels come in handy. 

Since I ordered the lighthead only I didnt receive a headband, but I had an older lupine headband that it attached perfectly to so it worked out. I dont think the rubber mounting o rings that are included work that well for headband use because they limit the angle that you can tilt the light upward because the extra rubber grip piece gets in the way. I read this in a review too. Correct me if I am wrong. I use a regular o ring when attaching it to my headstrap and this allows the lighthead to be tilted upward further. 

Overall I am happy with my purchase when I consider that it only cost me $29.95 its hard to complain about the little negatives considering how much I've spent on lights in the past.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The "head band" that comes with these doesn't work like a headlamp, its Velcro straps for helmet use. This is one time where they were designed around bike use, not a headlamp that works for bikes too.

Glad your liking it, nitefighter makes some great stuff for the price. its nice to have some quality and tailored to bikes more than any other use while keep prices realistic.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Ah ok tigris I thought it came with one of those cheap elastic headbands that you see in so many light sets online. But still it actually works great for thjs purpose with the wide beam and great tint its nice for walking in the woods.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> Ah ok tigris I thought it came with one of those cheap elastic headbands that you see in so many light sets online. But still it actually works great for thjs purpose with the wide beam and great tint its nice for walking in the woods.


Actually the KD Duo-clone works great for hiking / head strap purposes because the KD clone has the programmable UI. Set the low as low as you want, otherwise the BT21 low is lower than the BT40S's low.

About the BT40S on Amazon; I was going to buy another lamp head off of Amazon but noticed that when I got to the final payment page that the offer/link switched and started calling the purchase for one BT40 ( no S ) and with XP-G ( not XP-G2 ). I hate bait and switch or changes in the ads.  I was going to go with Amazon because I wanted it sooner. When I saw the change at the payment page I bailed. Geez but sometimes I hate dealing with what you get sometimes on the internet sites.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I looked at it, lighthead only says bt40....not sure why shouldn't be any different (bt40 was phased out a long while back). Guess someone has gotta be guinea pig and be ready to use amazon return policy. Though appears 2 people already have. They maybe have some old ones they are trying to get rid of???


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I found this tonight: http://www.amazon.com/VOMLITE-Lumen...p/B00WEF6KHQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_pdt_img_top?ie=UTF8

Had to giggle at the video reviews. Can tell they arent much for knowledge in this area, especially one of them. The other guy couldnt figure out how to get it apart and broke it in the process..... And uses some cheap cells vs what we get from Nitefighter. Gotta love the cloning process.....


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah it's scary how such schmucks become top reviewers on Amazon. :eekster: And that the company said to use scissors to unscrew the bezel, rather than external snap ring pliers.

But possible Vomlite is using BAK battery pack, just 4400mAh like MagicShine does rather than the 5200mAh included with NiteFighters. None of the reviewers complained about runtime... though i did get the impression they were mostly shills.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> I looked at it, lighthead only says bt40....not sure why shouldn't be any different (bt40 was phased out a long while back). Guess someone has gotta be guinea pig and be ready to use amazon return policy. Though appears 2 people already have. They maybe have some old ones they are trying to get rid of???


When I did my search I asked google for BT40S. I then clicked the Amazon link which took me to the full kit ( BT40S ). On that same page you have a "lamp only option". When you click on that the product page is still calling it BT40S. When you go to checkout...presto-change-o...you are now buying a BT40 with XP-G! ...not the 40S with XP-G2! I hate internet shell games, now you see it , now you don't. If you're not paying attention you end up with the wrong product.

About the VomLite ( BT40S clone ) I asked the seller a couple of questions. One was , "what brand of cells and what is the total capacity of the battery pack? I also noticed on the included photos that the VomLite looks like it is using separate optics vs. the 40S with quad optic. Unfortunately I didn't ask them any questions about that.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

On the VOMLITE product page on Amazon: "- Long battery life (4 AA DURACELL batteries INCLUDED), up to 10 hrs lighting. Strong and durable." LOL! 

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Wow Garry that really is strange! Item description says rechargeable Li-Ion so wonder what they are actually delivering. And what's up with their name — Makes you vom, but only a little?!

Cat, that diagram is seriously messed up. Video reviews clearly show a 4x optical array, not separate optics.

Judging by the shell, mount, charger, battery pouch and instruction manual, my guess would be that this is the same manufacturer as NiteFighter's but with different branding. Only item they seem to have changed is headband instead of Velcro helmet straps.

Still something appears fishy because so many reviews appeared around the same time, while some even precede the item's release date on Amazon (though think same might even be true of the Nitefighter.)


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

I went back and looked at my amazon invoice and it does actually say BT40, but on my lighthead itself it say BT40s so i guess its just a mess up with amazon in the description upon checkout. Makes you wonder though. I noticed that vomlight on amazon too when I was searching for the nitefighter, but it seemed off so I avoided it. Videos reviews were pretty funny though especially that dudes hair that makes him look like Bert from Sesame street.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> *I went back and looked at my amazon invoice and it does actually say BT40, but on my lighthead itself it say BT40s so i guess its just a mess up with amazon in the description upon checkout. Makes you wonder though.* I noticed that vomlight on amazon too when I was searching for the nitefighter, but it seemed off so I avoided it. Videos reviews were pretty funny though especially that dudes hair that makes him look like Bert from Sesame street.


So you ordered the "Light head only" on the link and got the BT40S ( even though Amazon invoice said BT40 ?)....tempted. Max, is this your first BT40S ? If it is you don't have another to compare it too ( I suppose ). ( EDIT; Based on your post I just went ahead to order the light head....rolling the dice and ignoring the CAt gut feelings ).

I got a response back from VomLite; the battery is using CHAM brand cells and they are 4 x 2200mAh. I no nothing about CHAM brand batteries, only that it is a Chinese battery company. I could find no reviews on CHAM batteries. Could be these are re-marketed as Trustfire, Ultrafire...etc. (?)


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Wow Garry that really is strange! Item description says rechargeable Li-Ion so wonder what they are actually delivering. And what's up with their name - Makes you vom, but only a little?!
> 
> *Cat, that diagram is seriously messed up. Video reviews clearly show a 4x optical array, not separate optics.
> 
> ...


Yes, I was thinking the same; More than likely the lamp is exact same lamp as Nitefighter ( but with cheaper battery ). The photo of the internal optical array is likely off. Likely using the same quad-Op as BT40S ( only the VomLite doesn't include the flood optic. From what I understand that is an aftermarket extra.

Yeah, the reviews do look "Shillish" and when it comes to Chinese made lamps it really wouldn't surprise me.

Oh, I forgot to mention before; The VomLite people told me the lamp IS using XP-G2 neutral LED's. Supposedly the product is shipped from the USA. How much of any of this is true is anyone's guess.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Cat, this is my first and only BT40s so nothing to compare it to, but it seems like the real deal. At least amazon has a great return policy so it's no real risk. I hope to go on my first night ride tonight and look forward to trying out the new light. My batteries are all charged up and ready to go.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat, the vomlite version is prime just like the bt40s. So imported then shipped that way. But obviously corners were cut in a few places (cells, headband, lack of extension cable etc) so they could sell under the bt40s to unknowing people.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> Cat, this is my first and only BT40s so nothing to compare it to, but it seems like the real deal. At least amazon has a great return policy so it's no real risk. I hope to go on my first night ride tonight and look forward to trying out the new light. My batteries are all charged up and ready to go.


I should have my Amazon version on Friday ( hopefully ). My thought on getting another was that I could run a duel ( BT40S ) set-up on the bars. Truthfully though I'm just doing this to have some fun but I do want to see what a 2000 lumen set-up on the bars is going to look like, if just for the fun of it.

The second lamp I'll just preset for Boost and just turn it on for the few wide open downhills I have occasion to ride. Hopefully this isn't going to spoil me.  I'll use the SSX3 ( neutral ) on the helmet till I get the replacement optics for the BT21. Regardless, I'm not convinced the BT21 with spot optics is going to be able to outperform the SSX3 for throw.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yet to see any optics out perform reflectors for throw as reflectors concentrate the beam to a really tight spot. Only way to match strong tight throwy spot is dedoming on spot optics


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Probably you won't see TIR optics to outthrow reflectors, but optics are more efficient (you get more lumens out of the front). Throw is defined by reflector size. Bigger reflector would give more throw. Funny it is not the center but outer ring which makes the throw. You can try it putting finger in the center.
On the other hand you get looses in the reflector (absorbtion) and front lense (specialy without AR coating) while with (TIR) lenses you get almost all light reflected. It is just diferently distibuted across area.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Probably you won't see TIR optics to outthrow reflectors, but optics are more efficient (you get more lumens out of the front). *Throw is defined by reflector size. Bigger reflector would give more throw. Funny it is not the center but outer ring which makes the throw. You can try it putting finger in the center.*
> On the other hand you get looses in the reflector (absorbtion) and front lense (specialy without AR coating) while with (TIR) lenses you get almost all light reflected. It is just diferently distibuted across area.


I agree, but that's part of the problem. You can't have a multi-emitter lamp with reflectors that are really big because it would be too heavy. Fortunately there is an alternative strategy. Optics and mini-reflectors coupled with multiple emitters. The Solarstorm's do a decent job with mini-reflectors but much of the available light is lost because those reflectors are not as efficient as the larger variety. My opinion is that better quality optics couple with enough emitters can provide a really nice beam pattern with a decent amount of throw. I think Gloworm and Lupine have both proven that. With the proper number of emitters coupled with the right optics you can get a decent amount of throw and still maintain a good sized beam pattern.

In the mean time those of us looking for an inexpensive helmet lamp with decent throw/beam pattern look to the lamps like the Solarstorms. The Solarstorm X3 and XT40 both work pretty good for helmet purpose. That said I decided to order another XT40 for the helmet. This time with neutral LED's. The previous version with CW led's did a decent job on the helmet. I'm hoping for the same with the NW LED's.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Me personally im just chilling on waiting for the xp-l HI emitters to hit market. 2 of those on spot optics in a yinding, bt21 or whatever...ive seen what a dedommed xm-l2 can do, emitters optimized for the purpose instead, OH YA! Or put 4 in a bt40


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Me personally im just chilling on waiting for the xp-l HI emitters to hit market. 2 of those on spot optics in a yinding, bt21 or whatever...ive seen what a dedommed xm-l2 can do, emitters optimized for the purpose instead, OH YA! Or put 4 in a bt40


You just might be right! Hard to say how much of an improvement they will provide but the outlook looks ( or sounds ) promising. Hope they offer them in neutral bins. ~~

I did a ride last night with the BT40S and BT21 both on the bars. ( SSX3 on the helmet ). On two really nasty downhills I was very pleased with what the combined output of the two lamps on the bars ( on boost ) could do. When going straight ( at high speed ) I almost didn't need a helmet lamp. Of course no matter how much light you have coming off the bars you are always going to need a good helmet lamp once you start turning. Going straight, with all three lamps on max output the output was awesome. Something that I noticed too, even with all that light going I didn't notice any feedback glare at all! You just have to love the neutral binned LED's.

*@Mr. Mole:* The ride I took last night was very warm. 80°F and 97% humidity and NO wind whatsoever. It was stifling. 10 min into the ride I had to remove my jersey. I don't do many rides like that because at my age it really takes a toll on me. The BT21 was getting really warm on the higher settings. Didn't have any power down issues though. I found out something tonight I thought worth mentioning, The BT21 is much easier to turn off ( on the fly ) that the BT40S. Very important when just using one lamp for boost. Hmmm, maybe that was just because my BT40S has much more of the button blacked out. I need to try that again. Now I'm beginning to think that the BT70 is going to be awesome. I have to admit, while I don't NEED 2000 plus lumen off the bars, having it creates quite a wonderful effect. :thumbsup:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat, im more used to the humidity due to my job but still a high humidity ride kicks my a**. I clr a 3 liter hydropack in an hr to 1.5 pending on trail terrain. Ive had to cut rides short too cause if I run outta water at any point its fastest and easiest route back to car.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

It's bad but I've become accustomed to not drinking anything even though I carry it. I drink a stupid amount throughout the day anyway (probably about 1.5 gallons...I'm THAT GUY who needs 4 glasses of water to eat a meal) so I have a pretty good reserve at all times though 

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> *@Mr. Mole:* The ride I took last night was very warm. 80°F and 97% humidity and NO wind whatsoever. It was stifling. 10 min into the ride I had to remove my jersey. I don't do many rides like that because at my age it really takes a toll on me. The BT21 was getting really warm on the higher settings. Didn't have any power down issues though. I found out something tonight I thought worth mentioning, The BT21 is much easier to turn off ( on the fly ) that the BT40S. Very important when just using one lamp for boost. Hmmm, maybe that was just because my BT40S has much more of the button blacked out. I need to try that again. Now I'm beginning to think that the BT70 is going to be awesome. I have to admit, while I don't NEED 2000 plus lumen off the bars, having it creates quite a wonderful effect. :thumbsup:


Hey Cat,
The ride I did with 100° ride temps a couple of days ago would be 105° temps if I did it tonight but I'd still prefer that to the conditions you rode in because the humidity was only about 10%. Also since you were talking about 2000+ lumens on the bars I thought you might find it interesting that the main reason I got my XS was so when it gets really hot (like now) I would have a light that I could run on lower settings and still maintain 1500 lumens without overheating (100% setting is a h..ll of a lot of fun though). Be carefull in that hot/HUMID weather.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Cat, im more used to the humidity due to my job but still a high humidity ride kicks my a**. I clr a 3 liter hydropack in an hr to 1.5 pending on trail terrain. Ive had to cut rides short too cause if I run outta water at any point its fastest and easiest route back to car.


I hear ya. High humidity can be a killer ( literally ), especially at my age. Now here's the odd ball thing, almost the entire ride I only drank the amount of water that I usually drink. The whole time I kept wondering why I wasn't more thirsty. The water bladder I carry is a relatively small one, 1.5 liter Camelback. I usually only fill it halfway to 3/4. For my 2hr night rides that is usually enough. I've done night rides before when it's been hot and I remember on those years just sucking down water.

One of the longest summer rides I've ever done on a mountain bike was in the mountains of WV. It was a very long thirty five mile combo of forest road and single track. I was still in my late forties back then. Nice day of about 78°F. About half way into the ride I had just finished climbing a rather steep 4-6 miles of fire road to the top of a knoll. When I got to the top I realized I only had about 12 oz. of water left and I was about to tackle 15 miles of mountain single track I had never before ridden. At that point I was considering turning around but decided against it.

One and half mile later my journey was interrupted just before a major trail intersection by the largest Timber rattler I have ever seen. The snake was right on the side of a very narrow portion of single track with heavy mountain brush on both sides of the trail and _no way to walk around it._ Not to mention Super-Snake was pissed because I had just scared away all the chipmunks that were scurrying around. It was coiled, shaking it's tail and it was mad. No way was it going to just let me stroll past unscathed.

While I was contemplating my next move I knew I had to think fast. I was badly dehydrated and the sun was beginning to wane on the horizon. A battle with a rattle snake was not something I needed at that moment. Sadly there were no trees around that I might have found a long stick to move it with. That left me no other option as I didn't want to turn around with my tail between my legs. I was going to have to get "medieval" with "Super Snake, King of the Mountain". I had lots of rocks where I was. I tried baseball size but quickly found out ( in my dehydrated state ) I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Even when I did manage to hit it, the rock would just bounce off. I tried bigger rocks, same effect. I was dealing with Super Snake and he wasn't going to move. Out of desperation I picked up the largest rock I could find. It was about 18" across and weighed about 20lbs. Somehow I managed to drop that sucker right on top of it ( without getting into it's striking range ). Believe it or not the rock bounced off but not before it completely compressed the snake like a giant spring. Then when the rock rolled off, like a giant spring suddenly uncoiled, SuperSnake bounced about a ft. off of the ground.

Luckily for me, SuperSnake didn't like that rock and decided he had enough rocks for one day. Slowly he slithered into the brush. I had run the gauntlet with S-Snake and had won. After that I rode the rest of the ride with heightened snake paranoia. I finished the ride and made it back just as the sun was setting. Completely parched, I must of drank a gallon of water when I got back. Those were the days when I was still learning some hard lessons about riding in real wilderness.

That was one of my best mountain bike stories, hope you enjoyed it.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

To my surprise, my package from Amazon arrived just before I left for work yesterday.
When I got home from work I took a good look at my new ( second ) BT40S. Yes indeed, it is a BT40 "S". I compared the two and once again everything seems to be in order. I even did a lux comparison just to make sure the output was the same. Actually the new one is just a bit brighter ( but barely ). While doing the test I found out something else about the 40S....the output drops very fast once you turn the lamp on boost. Both lamps did the same. ( without fan ).

Anyway, I'm thrilled it came so fast and I'm happy it was indeed a BT40S.
*@MaxHQ*; I've rolled the dice and won. Thanks for the loaded dice...:smilewinkgrin:


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

LOL Cat, I'm glad it worked out for the both of us. I managed to get out for a ride Saturday night and tried out the BT40s. It performed well and it makes for a pretty nice bar light. Switching modes wasnt too bad with the two button switch and the tint makes everything look nice without much glare. I only was out for about an hour so I have no idea what the runtime is with the gloworm battery, but the battery indicator on the battery was still in the green when I got home in the 80% area. I had used a mix of all modes while out riding. The lighthead is quite floody and the beam is smooth, but I would like to see about 25% more throw out of it for myself. Still the BT40s is a nice light and its hard to complain about it considering the price. If they offered a spot optic I would probably buy a second one. 

After the ride I used it mounted to my lupine head band while I was putting the bike up and tooling around in my shed. It worked great there with the floody beam it lights up the shed nicely with none of the tunnel vision you get from spotty lights and less glare than some of my cool white lights. So anyway I'm glad to have it and will be using it often.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Cat I really liked your snake story too. Glad I never came across one of those super snakes.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Cat vs. Snake:










The artists rendering:









-Garry
P.S. Cat, your older than I thought you'd be. Seems many are "older" around here.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

+1 the super snake story is pretty awesome, especially the 20lb rock bouncing off.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> ....Seems many are "older" around here.


Hey! I resemble that remark.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> That was one of my best mountain bike stories, hope you enjoyed it.


Yes, quite impressive story indeed! In my practice of night riding, most dangerous animals I encountered were wild boars, but everything went fine: we simply passed further, without any confrontation.

P.S. And I have to admit, I'm not particularly young, either...


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Seems we are all a bunch of fossils round here.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> LOL Cat, I'm glad it worked out for the both of us. I managed to get out for a ride Saturday night and tried out the BT40s. It performed well and it makes for a pretty nice bar light. Switching modes wasnt too bad with the two button switch and the tint makes everything look nice without much glare. I only was out for about an hour so I have no idea what the runtime is with the gloworm battery, but the battery indicator on the battery was still in the green when I got home in the 80% area. * I had used a mix of all modes while out riding. The lighthead is quite floody and the beam is smooth, but I would like to see about 25% more throw out of it for myself. Still the BT40s is a nice light and its hard to complain about it considering the price. If they offered a spot optic I would probably buy a second one. *
> 
> After the ride I used it mounted to my lupine head band while I was putting the bike up and tooling around in my shed. It worked great there with the floody beam it lights up the shed nicely with none of the tunnel vision you get from spotty lights and less glare than some of my cool white lights. So anyway I'm glad to have it and will be using it often.


Yes, I can agree that it would be nice if it had a little more throw. Still, it gets the job done on the bars and illuminates the foreground very well. Actually though the light does carry quite far but it dissipates to the point ( beyond 100ft ) to where objects are not clearly defined. Since the helmet lamp I use also adds some throw I usually don't have any issues seeing anything distant in my line of sight. For a $30 lamp with a general output of between 1300 and 1400 lumen it does a pretty good job of letting you see whats in front of you. If I'm not riding fast or taking a lot of sharp turns I ride with just the BT40S on the bars ( set on medium ) and turn the helmet lamp off.

I've noticed when using the Nitefighter's that when on the road the beam pattern seems to reach farther. This is actually no surprise to me as almost all lamps do better when on a flat smooth road surface. At some point this year I'll likely get a chance to ride with the Nitefighter's on a very fast fire road descent. That should prove to be quite interesting. One of the past issues I had with other lamps ( using cool white led's ) was that on faster ( fire road ) surfaces I couldn't always see the surface details very well even though I always had enough throw. Yep, will be fun to try those with the neutral lamps when I get the chance.

Keep in mind though that I am kind of biased when it comes to the Nitefighter lamps. These are the first "neutral " LED's lamps that I've used and as such I've been very impressed with how well neutral LED's let you see things. More than likely when I finally get around to upgrading my Gloworms to neutral I'll once again go back to using the Gloworms.


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## ZIPPYZOOM (Nov 26, 2005)

*Snapped mount on BT40S*

































Was riding through Central Park just now at a decent clip on my road bike going down a decent when the mount on my newly purchased BT40S snapped and jumped into my front wheel almost causing me to crash at high speed. The tension on the mount wasn't even that great either!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I use their mounts without issues but it doesn't matter the light, those tabs can snap. Even expensive magicshine lights have those mounts and they can fail if not careful. Its a pain in the rear.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

DX sells an aluminum replacement or you can convert to a GoPro style mount. 

-Garry


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## ZIPPYZOOM (Nov 26, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> DX sells an aluminum replacement or you can convert to a GoPro style mount.
> 
> -Garry


Thanks! I'm on DX and can't seem to find (don't know what mount to look for) the aluminum replacement. By any chance do you know where it is on DX?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Now in intrigued, thought I saw something about aluminum magicshine style mounts. The bt70 could definitely use it cause one plastic mount for that beast isn't such a good idea imo.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

@ZIPPY 
Aluminum Alloy Bike Headlamp Mount Holder w/ Silicone Rings - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
Plastic Bicycle Mounted Base Holder for XML T6 Headlight - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

I kinda suspect that the aluminum MagicShine style mount with not work so well for the BT40S. The screw hole is too close to the cable channel. On the Nitefighter mount, it is almost at the far end of the base.















Guess you could dremmel a secondary channel, and also take off some material from the end of the base where the fins of the lamp might keep the mount from sitting flush. But not an ideal solution. And of course you'd still need a longer screw, by about 2mm or 4mm, because as provided will only engage the threads in the fins of the BT40S and not penetrate into the lamp shell.

Hasn't vanbiker already CNCed a GoPro style mount to fit the BT40S? One for the BT70 would be swell.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Real shame about the broken mount. It happens. I've had one of the plastic mounts break before on one of my cheaper Chinese lamps.

FWIW, Action LED sells a replacement plastic mount for all MS lamps except the 880. Since the BT40S is a MJ-872 clone, the replacement mount should work.

Anyway, contact the seller. They should also be able to send you a replacement mount. I'd order one from Action though because you will have it in a couple days. For plastic parts it always pays to have back-ups.

I went out last night to try the two BT40S on the bars set-up. Sadly, the trail I was on was in such bad shape from the storms on Saturday that there really was no advantage to having the second lamp. With all the debris, ruts and mud I was constantly dodging there was no real fast riding. I had to keep looking right in front of me in order to avoid all the loose rocks and the deepened ruts.  Need I say, not one of my better outings. For the next ride I need to find something a bit smoother. Regardless, suppose to rain again today. Hopefully I can find someplace not too far that is not going to get the rain.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

andychrist said:


> I kinda suspect that the aluminum MagicShine style mount with not work so well for the BT40S. The screw hole is too close to the cable channel. On the Nitefighter mount, it is almost at the far end of the base.
> 
> View attachment 998827
> View attachment 998826
> ...


The one for magicshine or the slightly modified version for the bt40s will work fine on the bt70. That's what im doing tonight. And yes Cat just for you, im brining the bt40 with cause there is some area there that I can do a really good comparisons.


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## ZIPPYZOOM (Nov 26, 2005)

andychrist said:


> I kinda suspect that the aluminum MagicShine style mount with not work so well for the BT40S. The screw hole is too close to the cable channel. On the Nitefighter mount, it is almost at the far end of the base.
> 
> View attachment 998827
> View attachment 998826
> ...


Thanks everyone. I've yet to hear back from Gearbest - will wait to do so before I place an order for a replacement.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ZIPPYZOOM said:


> Thanks everyone. I've yet to hear back from Gearbest - will wait to do so before I place an order for a replacement.


Yeah, they will send you one but it'll take 2 weeks ( or more ) to get to you.

In the mean time I'll suggest something that might work. Go to your local hardware store and see if you can find an O-ring big enough to slide over the front of the lamp head ( a-la DiNotte 200L style ) and be long enough to reach under the bars to the back hook on the mount. It might look like crap but it's a temporary fix. Just make sure you don't get the lamp hot enough to melt the rubber ( maybe use some foil to prevent that from happening ). I have a 55mm diameter O-ring that I just now tried this on and it works. It's not real tight though, so it might move a bit. A thicker O-ring and maybe a bit smaller ( 45mm ) might do the trick better.

Anyway, If it were me I'd just buy a new plastic mount from Action LED, have it in two days and be done with it. If you decide to do that, do yourself a favor and by a couple sets of the Gemini ( red ) silicone O-rings. I don't know why but the red silicone O-rings work better than any O-rings I've ever used.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

The MagicShine replacement mount from Action looks like it might have the same problem as that aluminum one, in regards to fitting the BT40S. MagicShine's own MJ-872 is more similar to the BT40, which has a different shell from the BT40S. So there's no guarantee that the MS universal mount will work as is for this Nitefighter.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Here's another solution to consider, but it will cost you some money. Hope handlebar mount which I've used on a lot of my lights... very good quality and functionality.









Hope Universal Handlebar Mount | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

I ordered a couple of those DX aluminum mounts last year. They are nice but both of the cushioning pads came off at some point without me realising it. They both now turn on the handle bars scratching it!

The hope mount is nice and I also have one. I guess you would need to use a dremel or equivalent to make a channel for the cable.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

I found that my spare lupine mount that uses the rubber oring fits the bt40s and is a lot beefier too. The lupine screw fits too and is a bit longer. You end up having to reverse the way you hook the oring though you have to stretch and hook it to the front of the light. It works better with a plain oring without the pull tab and is much more stable on the bars with the thicker lupine orings. The ones supplied with the nitefighter are wimpy compared to them. Then I checked the lupinenorthamerica site and see that they offer a gopro mount too so that should work too though I havent tried it. As with all lupine stuff it is pricey though. The gopro mount is $20 plus you have to pay shipping on top of that.

GoPro Mount Adapter for Wilma


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Just get a gopro adapter from Vancbiker on here, only $12.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Just get a gopro adapter from Vancbiker on here, only $12.


I don't understand why anyone wouldn't choose this option. Hand make in the USA, less expensive, and they make you look physically more attractive to women.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh and it will actually fit properly too!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> I found that my spare lupine mount that uses the rubber oring fits the bt40s and is a lot beefier too. The lupine screw fits too and is a bit longer. You end up having to reverse the way you hook the oring though you have to stretch and hook it to the front of the light. It works better with a plain oring without the pull tab and is much more stable on the bars with the thicker lupine orings. The ones supplied with the nitefighter are wimpy compared to them. Then I checked the lupinenorthamerica site and see that they offer a gopro mount too so that should work too though I havent tried it. As with all lupine stuff it is pricey though. The gopro mount is $20 plus you have to pay shipping on top of that.
> 
> GoPro Mount Adapter for Wilma


Okay so the Lupine Gopro mount is $8 more. What matters the most, "Does it work"? ( see below ) It's just a shame that by the time I buy a GPro mount and bar adapter I'll have spent more than the lamp head. I'd go with one of those Hope Universal mounts but with the Gopro you can adjust the tension at the two metal contacts. With the Hope you have to adjust the bracket with the rubber pads. Sliding rubber against metal ( for adjustment on the fly ) isn't the same. I want metal against metal as my pivot point. The Hope mount though might work very well with the BT70. With that lamp there shouldn't be too much need to tilt on the fly.

https://www.lupinenorthamerica.com/images/products/lupine_2014/gopromount/145_Wilma_GoPro_1-1.jpg


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Actually a cheap gopro aluminum adapter off amazon is like $6-7. Those chinese ones as they have them prime eligible. they are as good as any other and work perfect and $12 for vancs. I'd link the mounts on amazon but on my phone atm.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Of course I would just go with the vancs adapter too, but the more mounts we find that work with the lighthead the better in my opinion and I have a spare lupine mount that works and is built beefier with a heavier oring than the nitecore one so I`ll use that. One thing I realized after my first ride with the nitefighter was because of the wimpy orings the lighthead isnt as stable as it could be. But I wouldnt trust the contruction of the mount to hold up with thicker orings and the extra force needed to attach them so that is why for me the lupine mount works out better. But with the vanc or other more solid mount I woud want to use a thicker oring too. Its much more solid with one. You can push the mode buttons all you want with no give.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Vancs mount is gopro mount that mounts in place of the band mount, so there is no oring holding it. Use a gopro handlebar mount and mount you light as if it was a gopro


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Vancs mount is gopro mount that mounts in place of the band mount, so there is no oring holding it. Use a gopro handlebar mount and mount you light as if it was a gopro


Yeah I don't know why I posted about using an oring with the gopro mount as obviously you don't use an oring with it. Sorry for the confusion.:blush:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Duel BT40S; trail ride*

Tonight I did another ride with the duel BT40S set-up. Trail conditions have not been good lately. In my area there has been rain almost every other day. Tonight I chose to ride a relatively flat trail within the Patapsco River Valley. Most of the trail is flat and handles wet conditions very well. While out on this ride I also decided I would explore on the way back a trail I have previously never rode before.

Things went pretty much as normal. The flat section is only a couple miles long. Usually this is a good area to test throw but unfortunately when the ground is wet the dirt on this trail turns very, very black. With reflectivity of the trail surface down to zero, the light from my lamp was not traveling very far. I've experienced this type of thing before so it was no surprise.

While on the ride I also come across a remote section of RR tracks. I used the track area to test the duel set-up. Conditions though just weren't very good. The air was thick with moisture so light was only traveling about 100 ft. or so regardless of what lamp I used. Because of that there was no use in taking photos. Still it was interesting to see what both lamps could do in combo.

From what I can tell there is really no "added throw" advantage to running two BT40S's. What you do get though is double the light in the 100 ft. range. While nice to have it really isn't necessary. There is some added throw but it is very minor ( at least in the conditions I was riding in ). The BT40S doesn't really have great throw. It does though have a very useable beam pattern in the 100 ft. range. For most single track this is usually enough for a suitable bar lamp.

Oddly I ran across a couple night riders tonight. Hopefully I didn't scare the one rider while I was on the RR tracks. We talked briefly and he informed me of an event ride ( in the area ) that was to take place on Sunday. We parted ways and I took off to return via the new trail. I knew the trail was going to be mostly "uphill" but I had no idea how UpHill it would actually be. ( lol )

Always fun exploring new single track. I was using a good cycling GPS map so I knew the trail was not going to disappear on me and I knew I couldn't get lost. I will say it was one nice trail but very, very steep in some sections. It totally kicked my 60 yr old butt. I now know that when I ride this again I will take this new trail "ON THE WAY DOWN"!!. It will make for one long epic single track downhill run. Next time I'll take the road system for the ride back, even though it too is steep in spots it is MUCH EASIER!...Lol.

Otherwise, most of the ride I just used one lamp on the bars and the SSX3 on the helmet when needed. Once higher up I noticed there was less moisture in the air and my lamps were more useful. Yeah, that made since. River valleys do tend to trap low lying moisture in the air. Can't wait for the dryer weather. If I'm lucky I'll get another night ride in tomorrow night ... if the rain holds off. Hopefully, on higher, drier ground.


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## dmc71 (May 16, 2015)

Strange you didn't notice any extra throw, although as you say this may have been due to the conditions.
I thought 2x BT40's would give a similar throw to the BT70 as on turbo you had 8 leds each running around 0.85A and the BT70 runs 7 at around 1A and tigris' beamshots show the BT70 with more throw than a single BT40.
Wonder if that means the individual lenses on the BT70 lens are tighter, giving it the extra throw and not just flooding the near field?
If you want to run both BT40's you may need to locate 2 new aftermarket lenses with tighter angles to get the BT70 effect. Not sure anyone has reported finding these though.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

dmc71 said:


> Strange you didn't notice any extra throw, although as you say this may have been due to the conditions.
> I thought 2x BT40's would give a similar throw to the BT70 as on turbo you had 8 leds each running around 0.85A and the BT70 runs 7 at around 1A and tigris' beamshots show the BT70 with more throw than a single BT40.
> Wonder if that means the individual lenses on the BT70 lens are tighter, giving it the extra throw and not just flooding the near field?
> If you want to run both BT40's you may need to locate 2 new aftermarket lenses with tighter angles to get the BT70 effect. Not sure anyone has reported finding these though.


Yep, agree with everything you just said. It must of been the conditions. Common sense tells you if you're using more light there has to be some better throw, if just because of the pure lumens involved. Likely it does add some throw but It might not be as noticeable as the BT70. Keep in mind the best BT70 beam shots were done on a paved trail. Light carries better on flat surfaces. When the guy showed up at the RR tracks he looked like he had a MS808 helmet lamp. I asked him to shine it down the tracks. Usually that kind of lamp can reach 150 ft. no problem but last night none of the lamps were really reaching very far. Too much moisture in the air. Even right now it is 80% humidity. Thankfully temp only in the high 70's.

Would be great to find an after market lens but I think these types are special order. A tighter optic would likely kill the spill though. Still, would be great for people using a duel set-up.

The beam shots of the BT70 did show it to have some punch. Not sure if a duel bt40s is going to beat that. If I get a chance I might be able to take some beam shots on the paved trails near me. Right now smart phone photos are the best I can do. Right now no matter where I go to ride, dirt trails are going to be damp to wet at best. Not good for doing beam shots. It's been one of those years.


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## dmc71 (May 16, 2015)

What you do gain with the dual set up is effectively 10 brightness combinations instead of 4, and longer battery life for the ride.
Downside is having to mount both batteries unless you use a splitter cable.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

dmc71 said:


> What you do gain with the dual set up is effectively 10 brightness combinations instead of 4, and longer battery life for the ride.
> Downside is having to mount both batteries unless you use a splitter cable.


Yep. There are various ways to use two lamps on the bars. Personally I just use the second lamp ( via Y-cable ) for Boost x 2. Still, if someone wanted to they could run both lamps on medium, have tons of light and yet keep both lamps running cool. I see no point in doing that though. Kind of a pain messing with two lamps. The four levels in the one are usually good enough for what I need.

I do intend to go back ( at some point ) and to try that downhill I rode up last night going the other way. When I do I already know what to expect. It is going to be fast and technical with a couple really steep drop-ins. I'll be running double boost at least while on the more technical sections. Should be a real hoot.

...And speaking of hoots, last night while climbing that hill ( with a lot of walking and panting included ) there was a hoot owl calling near by. Owls are very common in my area but strangely this is the first owl that I've heard this year. Looks like I'm going to call this trail, "The Hooters" trail. Funny too because when I next do it I'll be riding downhill and running duel headlights.  I love it when life's circumstance throws me a unexpected pun.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

you crack me up! 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Only you Cat lmao! 

So took my 8 yr old out for his first night time trail ride! He loved it except the spider webs in his face a few times. Being I needed to test bt70 and wanted to give my custom bt21 on bars, stock (with other optics) on the lid, I gave him the bt40. No lid lamp for him. He was having a blast, when we got into faster stuff I just tilted my bt21 on my lid a bit higher to light up at full range (he had the bt40 pointed rather low, but he liked it there not higher so I didn't care) since I was following him. I have to say running as a solo light for him was really nice. I was pleasantly surprised at the stock beam pattern and such for a "by it self" light. Its just got the nice mix imo to be useable on the trails with just it on the bars.

Dang light just continues to impress me for what it can do for being so small and not xm-l2 emitters.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Return to Hooters trail: Duel Headlights, BT40S*

Went back to the Hooters trail tonight. Sadly, I was a bit disappointed. For some reason I was expecting this trail to be more of an all out rocket ride of a downhill. I guess I missed some things the previous time because I was riding UP the hill and very exhausted.

Turned out that most of trail was heavily surrounded by tall grass. Since it was single track that really limited what you could see on the trail at any given time. That meant I had to moderate my speed because the trail was full of roots, rocks and downed saplings. Not to mention it was also slick as hell because of all the rain we have been having lately. It was still fun but truthfully there was no advantage to running two bar lamps. The trail twisted and turned constantly.

Not as much humidity though as the past couple days but at least I was seeing a bit more throw. All the trails near me have been wet to damp for weeks now. This really effects the reflectivity of the trails and how well the neutral ( emitter ) lamps work. Still I had no problem seeing anything that I needed to see, even when not using the SSX3 helmet lamp.

I did take a couple photos tonight while doing my downhill. Like I said before though, the trail surface is very dark and slick. I paced off 150 ft. Sadly I had nothing that was light colored to mark the spot. The only thing I could find was a fallen branch from a birch. It was somewhat light colored but no more than an 1.5" wide. When I got back to my bike I turn on the BT40's one at a time. I could see the branch with both one and two lamps on although faintly. Now it might have been brighter but the trail veers to the right as it goes down hill. Unfortunately the camera couldn't pick up the branch even with both lamps going. I can see it but the camera can't. ( *camera is a Droid Maxx smart phone camera. A better camera might net better results. ) Anyway the photos are below. *The first one is with one lamp on boost. The second is with both BT40's on boost.*

"The last little tree to the right of the trail is about 100ft. away if that's any help. Beyond that the trail veers right and down. You can see why I say two lamps on the bars aren't really helping that much. I'm betting the BT70 is better. Than again It I wanted more throw I stand a better chance of using two BT21's with one fitted with spot optics. Now if I could find a quad spot optic for the BT40S that would be sweet. I might have to write Nitefighter and see what they can come up with.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Nice pics cat. Yep you really don't gain enough throw to make 2x bt40 worth it unless a better spot optic comes out. You probably just end up having too bright a flood close up to mid and then anything farther out is lost. I agree, the BT70 offers a little more throw so that seems to be a better beam than the 2x bt40s or even going with two of the Bt21's would be a better option. I think I'll just stick with the one BT40 on the bars for now and the glowworm x2 helmet and see if better options in neutral white show up next year. Haven't been getting in much riding lately anyway just too much going on.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> Nice pics cat. Yep you really don't gain enough throw to make 2x bt40 worth it unless a better spot optic comes out. You probably just end up having too bright a flood close up to mid and then anything farther out is lost. I agree, the BT70 offers a little more throw so that seems to be a better beam than the 2x bt40s or even going with two of the Bt21's would be a better option. I think I'll just stick with the one BT40 on the bars for now and the glowworm x2 helmet and see if better options in neutral white show up next year. Haven't been getting in much riding lately anyway just too much going on.


Agree, partially. I like the warmth of a single BT40S beam pattern in the foreground. I'm looking to upgrade the BT21 with spot optics. That should supply the distance throw off the bars ( if or when I need it ). Of course if I upgrade my GWX2 to neutral this will all be moot. GWX2 throw has always kicked butt.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat, why not put the optics from your x2 into the bt21 for the moment????


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Cat, why not put the optics from your x2 into the bt21 for the moment????


Yeah, I though about that. The only one I have with two spots is a (v2) and it sits on my road bike. I really don't want to mess with it but ...ehh...I might.

Back to work today. This last week has been very strange weather wise. It had to be the coolest first week of July I can every remember. Day temps for this time of year are usually in the high 90'sF. but this last week the warmest day(s) only got into the low 80's. It got so cool at night that is caused a temperature inversion of sort with temperatures near or at the dew point. That was one of the reasons why I was having so much distance throw problems, too much moisture in the air near ground level. So much moisture in the air at night that even though it wasn't raining my car stayed looking wet.

Thankfully though there wasn't any ground fog except maybe one night. Ground fog can really screw up a night ride if it's thick enough.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*BT40S; The Saga Continues*

I went out tonight again with the twin BT40's on the bars. This time I brought along the BT21 so I could switch out one of the BT40's for the return trip.

The last couple days have been relatively dry. The skies were much clearer too which meant less humidity. Still, very unseasonal weather in my part of the woods. Temps were still in the low 80's during the day and at night down near 70°F.

My ride went pretty well tonight. Only a few spots still soft but over all conditions were much better than last week. I took one photo of the BT40S on boost. You'll see from the photo ( below ) That on drier/ lighter colored surfaces the lamp works much better...Then again this is true of almost all lamps but more so with the neutrals. Also helped that there was less moisture in the air. All of these factors made for a better photo. This photo also helps illustrate how wide the beam pattern is with the stock optic.

The big tree at the top of the hill is roughly 135ft. away. I could actually see beyond that but the camera can't. At the top near the tree the trail bares left and flattens out.

I didn't take any double-bt40 shots tonight but the duel set-up was working better. Not to mention I was only using my new torch on the helmet tonight so the bar lamps had more work to do.

After I switched out the second BT40 for the BT21 ( for boost duties ) I did see some changes. The BT21 even with stock optics does have better throw than the BT40S. The two lamps worked very together as I made my way down some of the more rocky scree laden trails. Still a lot of debris from the storms last week to slow me down but at least it was drier which made a big difference. I did miss my SSX3 on the helmet but only when making wide turns on some of the trail with multiple hazards. Otherwise the new neutral XP-L drop-in I bought is bright and works very well (Can't wait to get the neutral XT40 in, hopefully sometime next week )

Tomorrow night I'm hoping to get a ride in at a different area, one I haven't done much this year because of all the rain.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*More Photos: BT40S and BT21 shootout*

Tonight I got a handfull of photos that I think turned out pretty good. All photos are with the lamps on boost mode. Since my phone camera is not so good at illustrating the distance throw I used the zoom setting for one shot of each along with just the normal setting. I also had the advantage of being able to lean the camera against a tree for less movement.

In the distance I took a very large piece of old wood and leaned it against a tree. This created a triangle and on zoom is easy to see. Distance to that triangle is roughly 150 ft. First up BT40S and than the BT21. All lamps stock.

BT40S; boost at normal magnification. ( below )









BT40S; boost at magnification. Notice the triangle is easy to see ( as it normally is with the human eye. ( below )









BT21; boost at normal mag. Notice there is slightly more throw but a little less light in the foreground. ( below )









BT21; boost with magnification. Much brighter. ( below )









Now if I can add some spot optics the BT21 is going to rock! Two might make it too spotty but one might be perfect. :thumbsup:

*Side note*: Tonight I noticed that when using the BT40S with a good helmet lamp it is sometimes hard to tell if the BT40S is changing modes when you press the buttons. That's kind of a PITA. Sometimes I had to point the SSX3 ( helmet lamp ) off to the side so I could tell if I hit the button right.

Also note that the BT40S is slightly warmer in tint than the BT21. This is a big plus because I like the warmer tint. I noted on previous rides that when I run two lamps at the same time the tint get a little cooler which generally is not to my liking unless I get a lot more throw.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice I didn't even think about zooming in to see the throw of lights better.

I gotta say though, I love my bt21 beam pattern going to order more gw spot optics try out dual since they aren't as tight of a spot as the 15degs.

Also gotta find a better place to mount my camera, gonna try my chest mount next run cause my local trail makes it really hard to watch on the bars video lol.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

@tigris99....

When you get a chance, would you measure up the mounting surface and cable location for me? I've got a couple inquiries about fitting a finned adapter to the BT40S.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya im working on that, gonna mail u a stock mount too. This one isn't going to be so easy lol. Biggest problem is going to be getting good thermal transfer because contact surface isn't that big and fins run right up to the edge of it, and contact surface is recessed .5mm or so.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> @tigris99....
> 
> When you get a chance, would you measure up the mounting surface and cable location for me? I've got a couple inquiries about fitting a finned adapter to the BT40S.


...^^^... :thumbsup:

*More comments from my last post:* If there is anything I could wish for to improve the Nitefighter lamps other than optics or output it would be for a more positive "click" when changing modes. The 40S does click but is is hardly noticeable especially when going over rough terrain. Like I mentioned before, when changing modes on the BT40S it is hard to notice the change in output if you are using another lamp in combo. _This is because the difference in output for the various modes is very subtle._ ( *Not a problem with the BT21 because the mode outputs are spaced wider apart.) Of course of lot of what I just said depends on what helmet lamp is being used. With a more "spot" oriented helmet lamp there may be no problems. With my SSX3 or XT40 on the helmet I might as well just run the BT40S on medium and just up the output on the helmet if I need more....naaaaa!...More is always better.. 

I had a nice ride last night. The area I rode was more flat and for the first time in weeks I got a chance to ride a little faster than usual. With the BT40S in medium and the SSX3 on low-medium I was good for most of what I was seeing. It's still hard to find a completely dry area though. At least most of what I rode last night was dry with just a handful of mud spots. Unfortunately a lot of the dry trails were very sandy. If I wasn't dodging mud I was sliding around in sand! AHH!, what I wouldn't give for some honest-to-good "Terra Firma".


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> Ya im working on that, gonna mail u a stock mount too. This one isn't going to be so easy lol. Biggest problem is going to be getting good thermal transfer because contact surface isn't that big and fins run right up to the edge of it, and contact surface is recessed .5mm or so.


OK thanks!! Looking forward to seeing what this is going to take. Unfortunately, if the manufacturing gets too tough/time consuming, then the price goes up. I may have to make some compromises on contact area in exchange for keeping it simple.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat. Sent a shitload more rain your way hehe. IIrc it should be traveling in a straight line from me to you. Some how it missed my local trail and my house but drenched everything else in the area lol.

You said you wanted more rain right???


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Cat. Sent a shitload more rain your way hehe. IIrc it should be traveling in a straight line from me to you. Some how it missed my local trail and my house but drenched everything else in the area lol.
> 
> You said you wanted more rain right???


Rain in my area has been "spotty" and very localized the past couple days. If it's going to rain that's the way I like it. At least when it's localized the accumulations are generally lower which usually gives me more options.

So far I'm looking good for the weekend, at least as far as Saturday goes. Damn, I need to ride some different places though. I need to see fresh trail. Plus I'd like to get an epic in before it gets too hot. Strange, it's been unseasonably cool where I live. It's the middle of freaking JULY!, I keep wondering where the normal 95°F stuff is. What the...I just updated my weather app and now it's telling me 50% chance of rain on Saturday, what a difference 10 minutes makes. Ahh, f-it, I generally don't make plans till Friday anyway because the weather can always change.

Gee I wish I could lose 20lbs in a week. :lol: I want to ride UP some mountains but I'm too damn fat.  I may give it a try though if the temps stay in the 80s. The last couple rides I've done I've noticed that my legs are a bit stronger. A couple of my more hilly rides have some really epic fireroad descents. Been a while since I've done one of those.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Nice pictures Cat-man-do. It really illustrates the throw capability. The bt21 is a clear winner here. The only thing you lose is a little near-field light. I might have to pick one of those up. It's impressive how good the cheap lights have come in the last year and half. It makes the single xml look like something from the dark ages.

If you had a triple led light with one led pointed slightly downward that might make the perfect light. Two leds for distance and one near-field. There's a new solarstorm, with two leds with one of them pointed downward.
StarryLight RX02 CE & RoHS certified waterproof rechargeable xml2 u2 led bicycle light, View rechargeable led bicycle light, StarryLight Product Details from Shenzhen Blackshadow Technology Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com

So the nitefighter light have the "did I push the button" problem. I have that problem with my Yindings. Really drives me nuts. I wish they would all use something like the Solarstorm button. There's no mistaking that click.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Just a heads up, I noticed the BT40s lighthead only has dropped to $19.95 at amazon right now.


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

That is a crazy price. Would the BT40 be much of an upgrade over a Yinding for a bar light? Any more flood on the BT40? Hard not to pull the trigger for this price. Finally read this full thread, seems like a great light.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> Nice pictures Cat-man-do. It really illustrates the throw capability. The bt21 is a clear winner here. The only thing you lose is a little near-field light. I might have to pick one of those up. It's impressive how good the cheap lights have come in the last year and half. It makes the single xml look like something from the dark ages.
> 
> If you had a triple led light with one led pointed slightly downward that might make the perfect light. Two leds for distance and one near-field. There's a new solarstorm, with two leds with one of them pointed downward.
> StarryLight RX02 CE & RoHS certified waterproof rechargeable xml2 u2 led bicycle light, View rechargeable led bicycle light, StarryLight Product Details from Shenzhen Blackshadow Technology Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com
> ...


Yes, the* BT21* does lose a little light near the bike. I estimate this is only in about the 5ft range. Once passed that range it is pretty much normal. It is most noticeable in low and medium mode. On high and boost it's not an issue. For that matter it is very much like the Gloworm lights so to me it's not really an issue anyway. The greater issue ( IMO ) is the increase in throw that it gives...AND...I should add, this throw is quite wide so at speed it is quite nice. The *BT21* might be the better all-around lamp but only because it uses optics that can be replaced. I just wish the low mode were a little brighter on the BT21.

The *BT40S* gives a nice amount of light immediately starting at the handlebars. I think it's the better lamp for "bars" MTB use if you are using it in combo with a good helmet lamp. Once again, a slight edge to the *BT40S* because of the slightly warmer beam tint in that 100ft range.

The "button feel" issue is probably quite common with a lot of lamps. Personally I'm used to remote control so fiddling with a bar lamp while I'm riding is not something I'm used to anyway. At least now when I change modes with the BT40S I know I have to point the helmet lamp off to the side if I want more visual feed back when changing modes. Hopefully once I get this lamp mounted to a Gopro mount the feel should be more positive. Otherwise I had no real problem changing modes ( as long as my finger is on the right spot and I'm not bouncing around too much )...

Anyway, both lamps have their pros and cons. For the price they go for you can afford to buy both and make your own choice. :thumbsup:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

To me the yinding stock is kind of spotty for optics. The bt40 to me has a bigger spot but also more smooth spread for more light into the rest of the beam pattern. More "even" or smooth transition imo.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

dawgman25 said:


> That is a crazy price. Would the BT40 be much of an upgrade over a Yinding for a bar light? Any more flood on the BT40? Hard not to pull the trigger for this price. Finally read this full thread, seems like a great light.


As far as throw, no. As far as flood?...ehh, hard to say. I don't own a yinding. If your Yinding is a cool white lamp there will a noticeable difference in beam tint! If you're used to a Yinding on the bars you might not like the BT40S. Personally I'm used to a Gloworm X2. I miss the throw and over-all beam pattern of the GW but the BT40 is still very useable and the beam tint is top notch. That said my plan is to upgrade my Gloworms to neutral LED's so I can get my remote control back. In the mean time I'm really enjoying the neutral ( or natural ) feel of the Nitefighters. If you don't own a lamp with neutral tinted LED's you need to experience the effect to see how you like it. Personally, I LOVE the neutrals. No more "Cool white " LED's for me!


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

All my lights are cool white. After reading all the reviews about how much more definition you get with this natural white, might as well pull the trigger and try one out. Reason enough to buy another light I don't need. It will probably not match up well to my XT40. Would it be easy to switch out emitters on the XT40 to match this light on the bars?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No its not something easy, have to be able to reflow new emitters on to the plate. Might be easier to get a neutral white xt40


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

dawgman25 said:


> All my lights are cool white. After reading all the reviews about how much more definition you get with this natural white, might as well pull the trigger and try one out. Reason enough to buy another light I don't need. It will probably not match up well to my XT40. Would it be easy to switch out emitters on the XT40 to match this light on the bars?


At least with the XT40 you can buy just the light head with neutral emitters. Even if you bought 4 neutral emitters, tore the board off and did the technical reflow soldering you probably end up spending the same to just get the new light head.

*dawgman*, I should have my XT40 with neutral emitters by next Monday. I'll let you know how well the two lamps work together when I get it. I'm expecting good results. The SSX3 I have with neutral XM-L2 works good but the XT40 should be a notch better.

Likely by next year we should start seeing lamps with Cree XP-L high intensity emitters ( made without emitter domes ). We'll have to wait though till Cree can get the 4500-5000K tint nailed down on these. Once available we should get even more forward throw with neutral tint.

Heck, for that matter, I'd be thrilled to be able to buy an XT40 with standard XP-L neutrals. My opinion of the XP-L is that it offers slightly better throw than XM-L2 but I'm just basing that opinion on what I'm seeing with the new XP-L V6 drop-ins vs. XM-L2.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Cat, XP-L has much smaller dye and higher surface intensity which yields in a better throw. Of course overall light flow (Lumens) is smaller. If you look an very old XR-E led you can see it still has very good throw regardless low lumens.

Regarding throw XP-L HI would be even better, I agree, but you'll loose some more spill. How much this is important to anyone it depends on personal preferences. With XT40 (reflectors) it can be to spotty for someone. It might be good combination with some TIR lenses, though. Shurely we have yet to see it in real life.


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> At least with the XT40 you can buy just the light head with neutral emitters. Even if you bought 4 neutral emitters, tore the board off and did the technical reflow soldering you probably end up spending the same to just get the new light head.
> 
> *dawgman*, I should have my XT40 with neutral emitters by next Monday. I'll let you know how well the two lamps work together when I get it. I'm expecting good results. The SSX3 I have with neutral XM-L2 works good but the XT40 should be a notch better.
> 
> ...


Thanks Cat, looking forward to the review. I love my XT40 on my helmet.


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## Slyham (Jun 24, 2015)

Hello, first post on this thread. I've been looking into night riding and reading the forum. I bought two BT40s on Amazon, but the description was a little confusing. Anyway, I bought the light only. Can I buy a battery pack separately?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

thing is youll need a battery pack and charger. Most battery packs that you can buy come with the same connector (magicshine style round connector) but a good pack is going to cost a far bit. The kit comes with a good quality pack and getting one with pouch to hold it, charger and so on will cost the same or more as the budget friendly options for battery packs on amazon are the cheap junk ones we all complain about. My advise, Action LED, google it. Otherwise Hunk Lee (i forget his ebay account name hopefully hes around the forums at the moment) but can google him too, hes an active member here. Dont know what all he carries but his packs are more budget friendly though come direct from china (which has it drawbacks vs Action LED)


when buying lights, the cheap version (same brand, same light) is always lighthead only, the expensive option is the full kit, just for future reference.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Slyham said:


> Hello, first post on this thread. I've been looking into night riding and reading the forum. I bought two BT40s on Amazon, but the description was a little confusing. Anyway, I bought the light only. Can I buy a battery pack separately?


You can always buy separately. The options depends on where you live. If you are in the US then expensive but good is as Tigris said Action-Led-lights and MagicshineUSA, otherwise Hunk Lee or 2s2P case and cells of your own choice.

If you are handy and have some DIY skills you might take a look my thread just poped out: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...terproof-bicycle-battery-packs-gb-982688.html


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Slyham said:


> Hello, first post on this thread. I've been looking into night riding and reading the forum. I bought two BT40s on Amazon, but the description was a little confusing. Anyway, I bought the light only. Can I buy a battery pack separately?


Yep, I bought my second one on Amazon as well. At the time I think they ran out of the full sets. Too bad to because the batteries that come with the full set are pretty good.

Anyway, a great substitute battery ( same capacity and quality ) is this one from Xeccon. If USA warehouse has it in stock you get it a matter of two-three days. Xeccon batteries are well protected from rain ( rubber boot on battery ) and the pouch set-up is top notch. Not to mention very good price as well.

Now if you plan on running two BT40's with a Y-connector you might want one of the six cell packs ( some may not be in stock )...any questions you have ask Leonard from MTBRevolution.

Personally, I don't recommend running two at the same time because it really just puts more light close to the bike and doesn't really add more throw. More light close to the bike might seem like a good idea but really it changes the dynamic of the neutral beam pattern and makes the light seem a bit colder ( IMO ). With just one BT40S you generally see very well up to 100-150 ft. ( depending on trail conditions ). The drier/lighter colored the trails are, the farther the beam pattern carries.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Tid bits*

Last night when riding with the BT40S on the bars I noticed a couple things I thought worth mentioning. First the 40S I use is using the standard stock optic. I've been saying for quite a while now that the BT40S has a very good close in beam pattern. Last night while doing a slow climb I was able to compare the useable beam pattern of both the BT40S and BT21 during a slow climb ( BT21 with one spot optic and one standard flood ).

During slow climbs up debris strewn trails I find that I constantly have to weave back and forth as I endeavor to avoid loose rocks in order to maintain momentum. This of course means that the bar beam pattern is moving back and forth constantly. I noticed that when I use the BT21 on these climbs that I sometime lose significant illumination of the trail directly in front of me while the beam pattern pans back and forth. Of course if you're using a helmet lamp then this really isn't a major factor BUT....I noticed when I use the BT40S on these same slow climbs that I still can see the trail directly in front of me even though the beam pattern is panning back and forth. I thought that worth noting because while the BT40S might not have a lot of throw it does a very good job illuminating trail features directly in front of the bike.

I do have one small complaint though; I noticed when changing modes on the BT40S that if I'm moving and trying to change modes rapidly I don't always get the lamp into the mode I want. This is probably due to all the bouncing around I do while trying to change modes. I also noticed the same thing if I try to turn the lamp off while bouncing around. Sometimes the lamp will momentarily turn off and then turn right back on again. On smooth trails or slow riding none of this happens. I figure this has something to do with the up/down two-way switch. None of my other lamps do this nor does the BT21.

At some point I'll likely return to using my Gloworm X2 ( after getting it modded with neutral XM-L2's. That said, there's a good chance I'll continue to use the BT40S. I'm thinking maybe switch it over to the flood optic and just let it run on low and let the Gloworm take care of the stuff in the distance. That way when I do those slow climbs I'll still see stuff very near the bike no matter where the front of the bike is pointing. Matter of fact, that strategy would work very well particularly if you run a helmet lamp with a narrow beam pattern. With a good flood on the bars no need to run the helmet lamp on a slow climb, at least that's my theory. A theory I'll soon be testing.


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## juhake (Oct 26, 2007)

Is there any working promo code for this lamp, like there is for BT21?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No the prices on the site are as low as they go instead of using a promo code.


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## Slyham (Jun 24, 2015)

I just noticed the VOMLITE VL-G2S light on Amazon that looks identical to the BT40s. Is it the same light?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No its a clone. Alot of what comes with it isn't as good as what comes with bt40


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tig, what is not as good as with BT40s? How do you know? Just asking...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Battery pack isn't at least as high of capacity and I watched video reviews they got people (that know little to nothing about bike lights) to do. The generic head strap, the optics they broke in the video trying to change them, and broke easily. Yet ive had mine in and out several times no issues. Forgot the other points I mentioned before beyond the...ill be nice...people that got to review them.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Can't say anything for the accessories in the either light set as I don't have any. I've just got the bare BT40s head. It would be nice to measure capacity of the both on a good hobby charger like iCharger 106B+ and plot the curves. Then I would say something. Otherwise I would not trust much on reviews at Amazon. 
Regarding head only I think they might be pretty much the same. Broking lenses is mybe just the people didn't have right skills to do it. It's hard to broke it if you place right. So this is also bit clumsy to me. 

Of course I can't say for shure and we only know very well what we got. Tig, you should get one to compare. Try to contact the seller....


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not going jsut off the reviews, but this shows the level of intelligence of the seller, having no clue what they are selling:

"Long battery life (4 AA DURACELL batteries INCLUDED)"

Other stuff I took from what useful info I found in the video reviews. I do remember the original listing had the batteries listed at like 4000mah.

Ok going through the reviews, THE SELLER is up to something. The reviews that were there I originally made fun of arent there, the reviews date back to may, not march like before..... All say verified purchase now. Oh and they have at least a couple cyclists for the video reviews now too (after my poking fun at their reviews not having a single cyclist 

I doubt they will have me do it because im not a "top 100 reviewer" for amazon


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Well, you can try. It won't cost you much (if any) and if you explain about MTBR you might get a chance


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I think the basic difference between the Vomlite and the Nitefighter BT40S is that the 40S is using _neutral tinted XP-G2 emitters_ and the Vomlite is _cool white_. The reviews on the Vomlite lamp indicated that most people liked the lamp although there were some complaints about the plastic O-ring base breaking. I'm not sure what you get with the battery but if it's at least 4000mAh than that's not a bad battery.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

From the pictures in the reviews I woudn't say it is cool white. This picture as an example posted on August 18, 2015.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> From the pictures in the reviews I woudn't say it is cool white. This picture as an example posted on August 18, 2015.


.......Either you're joking or you didn't understand that I was talking about the emitter bin. There is no mention in the Vomlite ad that the lamp is using XP-G2 *"neutral"* emitters. This usually means the lamp is using an emitter bin for cool white. One guy did a video review and while it is hard to judge from video, to my eyes the beam look more white than the BT40S.

For FWIW, you can't tell emitter bin by looking at the front of the lamp. You need to look at the output. Big difference between the cool white bins and the neutral bins.

Sorry if you didn't understand what I said the first time.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I was not joking  and I understand very well the tints. I didn't even read descriptions. We all know what they are worth (well most of the time).

I dissagree with your opinion you can't tell emmiter bin just by looking at it at the front. You can't be very exact, though. But from my experience the colour of the phosphor layer is very indicative. Cool whites have lemon yellow tint, warm whites are pretty much orange and neutral in between. If the white balance of the picture was pretty much correct, you can see in which class led belongs. Of course you can miss exact bins for maybe +/-2, but you can pretty much see the class (CW, NW, WW).

Not the best picture to demonstrate that, but this is what I've found in my archive right now. From left to right 1A (KD2) over 3C (NW MJ880 clone) to 5C (problematic Yinding with almost WW tint):



I've taken this picture in a process of provement of the bad Yinding batch. If you carefuly look at the leds you can recognize different yellow hue.
All in all it translates in a light seing by my camera:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Well I don't exactly take the lamps apart and look at the emitters under a magnifying glass. To my eyes looking at any of them through the optics..they all look the same. The point I was making though is that the Vomlite is not marketed as using neutral bin emitters. ( AFAIK ) Anyway, while I can't tell by looking at the emitter itself I can tell by looking at the illuminated beam pattern.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Email sent off tonight to Nitefighter.*

In regards to the BT40S and the BT21 I sent the following letter to the Nitefighter website:



> Sirs;
> 
> I am a user and reviewer of bike lamps and have been a reviewer of the Nitefighter products by request for one of your employees ( or dealers ). I currently own two BT40S lamps, one BT21 and I currently have a BT70 on order from one of your dealers. The Nitefighter bike lamps have become very popular on the MTBreview.com website.
> 
> ...


I hope someone there reads this and takes it seriously.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ive said something to them as well without any luck so far. In fairness only the higher end lights have either offerings for different optics or use ledil optics so theirs options. Bt40s may be difficult to do any better with. Bt21 on the other hand they just need to go to using the height of optics that are available aftermarket so we can still use the orings. Wouldn't be hard, make the face plate thicker and machine the bezel so there is another 1mm distance between bezel and emitter, we'd be gtg.


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## crank feen (Sep 25, 2008)

My brother and I are getting ready to pull the trigger on these and we're wondering where the rest of you guys buy yours from? Amazon?
Thanks


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Amazon or gearbest


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> ...I dissagree with your opinion you can't tell emmiter bin just by looking at it at the front. You can't be very exact, though. But from my experience the colour of the phosphor layer is very indicative. Cool whites have lemon yellow tint, warm whites are pretty much orange and neutral in between......Of course you can miss exact bins for maybe +/-2, but you can pretty much see the class (CW, NW, WW)


Sorry I took so long to comment on what you wrote. Since I have both a neutral and cool white XT40 I can take both side by side, compare the emitters at arms length and I have to tell you, the difference between the color of the emitters is very slight, at least with the ones I have. Yeah, your right. The cool white is a little more lighter yellow than the neutral emitter. You can't tell though unless you are really looking at them very closely and/or using a magnifying glass. For me to be able to tell the difference I had to hold the lamps very close to my face and shine a bit of light directly where I was looking. If I hadn't of known which lamp was which, I don't think I'd be willing to bet money I could tell the difference, especially if I had nothing to compare to. On the other hand let me turn the lamps on and compare them and I'm going to rake in the dough.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Only way I have found to easily tell the tint without turning in is removing any optics or reflector/lens and looking at the emitter directly. Cool white the phosphor looks more like neon yellow, where as neutral looks more real yellow. But even that's hard to tell unless your looking at the 2 light heads side by side.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I agree you can't tell for shure, but you can at least speculationg when no other data has been provided. I've seen so many leds I have learnt to distinguish between them a bit. 
To return back to the point with the pictures of Vomlite light from Amazon it seems to me neutral white. So the light itself is probably very the same as BT40s. It might be even the same manufacturer. Of course one can't tell for shure unless you have both to compare.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Continued from above conversation..^^...In almost every case I can think of where a lamp is sold, if the emitter is of a neutral white variety it is ALWAYS mentioned in the product description. The BT40, BT40S and Vomlite are all clones of the original Magicshine MJ-872. I believe the original ( Magicshine ) was a lamp with cool white emitters. I'm thinking that the Vomlite is the same BUT...always the possibility that I could be wrong about that. Still, if I wanted the neutral emitters I'm not going to roll the dice on the Vomlite unless I know for sure. Besides, what we said before about the Vomlite battery possibly being just a cheap battery is also very possible.


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

Evening all!
Firstly, greetings from Austria 
Im very interested in the Nitefighter lights, and 'the' google has brought me here. I absolutely love hitting the trails at night and ive been using 2 ss2s (bar/helmet) and ive been pretty happy with that set up but...well, you know, a bit more light is never a bad thing!
I have just one question which id really appreciate an answer for; im using the SolarStorm 4 x 18650 box with decent cells from laptop batteries (like Samsung ICR18650-26F etc...), would this be ok for the BT40s?
Cheers!
MN


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The connectors aren't the same. Solarstorm uses a screw cap type, most others use magicshine snap together. Other than that they work fine, just the cable my vibrate and come unplugged since there is not much holding it connected.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

midnight_rambler said:


> I have just one question which id really appreciate an answer for; im using the SolarStorm 4 x 18650 box with decent cells from laptop batteries (like Samsung ICR18650-26F etc...), would this be ok for the BT40s?


Yes. And BTW, if you can choose between different flavours of Samsung, the -26C is significantly better.


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

Great thanks guys. Yeah I bought a bunch of laptop batteries from a local classified site, harvested the Samsungs, some green Sony US18650GR and some others, possibly Sanyos, they are a metallic pink/red colour but no serial number. They look like these Tutorial: Laptop Battery Pack 18650 Extraction...
Im guessing theyre all gonna be similar or is there a standout cell from that bunch?
Also, I use these Panasonic NCR18650B in my vaping devce: NCR18650B 3.7V 3400mAh 18650 Rechargeable Li - ion Battery ( 2 Pcs )-14.47 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
Im guessing these would out-perform the laptop cells? Sorry, Im utterly lost when it comes to electronics, Im reasonably intelligent but i just cant get my head around it - very frustrating!!
Thanks in advance guys!
MN


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Panasonics are the top end cells. For this purpose your lap cells vs the Panasonics is mainly a matter of run time (cell capacity). In 4 cell case the bt40s wont be pulling enough current to make much of a difference in things like voltage sag.

Also you'll need to balance your cells when using the solarstorm case, can't just stick them in and charge them. You need to match up cells best you can in sets of 4(dont mix brands or part numbers, all that has to match) then stick them all together in parallel and let them self balance. Make sure to mark the cells by sets of 4. The solarstorm case doesn't balance so you have to do that yourself.


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

Great, thanks tigris, ill stick with the lap cells for the lights. Cool, ill order a bt40s for bars and a bt21 for helmet, exciting times!!


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## stevenk4563 (Jun 21, 2010)

Spotted this on GB today for those of you using GoPro mounts, works with BT40S and BT21 apparently.

Gopro Adapter for Nitefighter BT21 / BT70 / BT40S Headlamp-1.68 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I had heard it was being done, just hadn't been told it was ready yet. Good eye on catching that. Guess their ready lol. And their aluminum which is nice.

Also, they aren't JUST for nitefighter lights, nitefighter uses the same style mounts as all the other lights, so the adapter will work for any of them.

Still a fan of vancbikers mounts though, the fins on his help kepp the lights running cooler (for those in warmer regions).


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

stevenk4563 said:


> Spotted this on GB today for those of you using GoPro mounts, works with BT40S and BT21 apparently.
> 
> Gopro Adapter for Nitefighter BT21 / BT70 / BT40S Headlamp-1.68 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com


Thanks for the link. I have to wonder how long they have had these. If they had these when I ordered my lamp I would have included one with my order ( lamp head only )...

Still haven't received my order.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Still haven't received my order.


Same here, day 42!
Mole


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Too late in the year for dicking with china shippers, my neighbor's yingding took 30days and he ordered the beginning of Aug..... this is back in stock on AMZN, VOMLITE 1600 Lumen 4X Cree XM-L2 G2

DST ends Nov1.



MRMOLE said:


> Same here, day 42! Mole





Cat-man-do said:


> Still haven't received my order.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

patski said:


> Too late in the year for dicking with china shippers, my neighbor's yingding took 30days and he ordered the beginning of Aug..... this is back in stock on AMZN, VOMLITE 1600 Lumen 4X Cree XM-L2 G2
> 
> DST ends Nov1.


Ya it takes a while but not just china, anywhere on another continent can take a month or more. But Chinese sellers (decent ones at least) have affordable, much faster options. The wait sucks but at least you can get what you want instead of clones on amazon.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> The wait sucks but at least you can get what you want instead of clones on amazon.


Isn't the BT40 a MagicShine Clone???


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol correct, I should have said " clone of a clone". We see clones of branded lights, then some time later we get clones of clones. Usually the first clone is good, then down the line it gets more and more hit or miss. Just look at solarstorm lights. The originals aren't bad, there is 100s of versions of clones that are total crap (though people keep posting that they like them, till they find these threads and see what their missing)


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## juhake (Oct 26, 2007)

stevenk4563 said:


> Spotted this on GB today for those of you using GoPro mounts, works with BT40S and BT21 apparently.
> 
> Gopro Adapter for Nitefighter BT21 / BT70 / BT40S Headlamp-1.68 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com


Thank you for this information. Now I only need links to cheap aluminum Gopro mounts for handlebars and helmet, preferably from GB or DX or somewhere similar with free international shipping to Europe.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

juhake said:


> Thank you for this information. Now I only need links to cheap aluminum Gopro mounts for handlebars and helmet, preferably from GB or DX or somewhere similar with free international shipping to Europe.


Search function on their websites, its right at the top of the screen.


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## juhake (Oct 26, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Search function on their websites, its right at the top of the screen.


I meant more like recommendations, I'm aware of the concept of search.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Their all the same, aluminum gopro handlebar mount just pick a color.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

juhake said:


> Thank you for this information. Now I only need links to cheap aluminum Gopro mounts for handlebars and helmet, preferably from GB or DX or somewhere similar with free international shipping to Europe.


I haven't used a GoPro mount yet but when I do it will likely look like one of these. I like the simple, clean look. Amazon sells these too so I can buy mine else where if I chose.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

patski said:


> Isn't the BT40 a MagicShine Clone???


And when the original Magicshine first came out it was said to be a clone of the Lupine Tesla. So another layer of clone lol.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Glowworm x2 = lupine piko clone lol. Its all over the place. Not to mention im skeptical of a company that has ridiculous reviews of their product on amazon (sent light to top reviewers, not cyclists) then when we make fun of it here they redo their listing and limit the reviewers to people that at least own bicycles. Kinda shady of vomlight to pull that. But maybe their "bt40s" clone is close enough to the real thing you wont see much difference except battery run time.


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

What do you all reckon to this, looks like an updated SSx2...
http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S024280
Id definitely have got one had a not discovered Nitefighter stuff...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

midnight_rambler said:


> What do you all reckon to this, looks like an updated SSx2...
> http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S024280
> Id definitely have got one had a not discovered Nitefighter stuff...


Interesting...But....you posted this in a thread with a dedicated topic. ( BT40S ) The new Chinese lamp thread is here. Any new lamp can be mentioned and talked about there. BTW, that is a very interesting offering from SS, this just isn't the place to talk about it. ....never mind, I re-posted it for you.


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

Sorry Cat, thanks for repost! Are you guys waiting for BTs from GearBest?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

We all have bt40s, they've been around for a while but gearbest ran out of stock not too long ago. Not surprising being its the best light they make when it comes to any qc issues. Bt21 behind it and bt70 is falling into the "cheap Chinese junk" category pretty quickly.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

midnight_rambler said:


> Sorry Cat, thanks for repost! Are you guys waiting for BTs from GearBest?


Yes, many people are waiting for the Nitefighter lamps from Gearbest. Seems to be more of a delay than what would be considered "the usual". Keep in mind that Nitefighter sells to other vendors as well so not surprising that there might be delays, especially when you factor in the time of year.


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## gas_pig70 (Mar 9, 2015)

I recently purchased the bt40s kit on Amazon and after having it on my bars for my first nighttime single track ride I was very impressed. I would love to pick up the bt21 as well and helmet mount it but I'm not sure about Gear Best. Any chance the bt21 will find it's way to Amazon in the near future?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

chances are very slim of seeing it soon on amazon. I wouldnt worry too much about buying it from gearbest, the only real issue is the free shipping is being overly slow getting from them to here, if you were to order it just select a faster/paid shipping option and you should be good to go.


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## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

I ordered a BT21 kit from Gearbest a few weeks ago & chose expedited shipping. I had it in 8 days from order. I ordered a BT40S from them last Wednesday, again with expedited shipping, & DHL is scheduled to deliver today. I'm live western MA, btw.


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

Would this optic work for a BT40?
10621 Carclo Lens - 4-UP Quad Spot Optic


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No, only optics that fit the bt40are the ones included with it.


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## canker (Jul 26, 2007)

My bt40 finally shipped from Kaidomain today so they finally have them back in stock.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

If anyone is looking to do an emitter swap for some serious kick in output, nice neutral tint, and high CRI (Color Rendering Index - i.e. higher number = better color rendering) you may want to consider the new Nichia 219C's. This LED is a direct swap with the XP-G2/XP-G's. Test results are in (well they have been, but I wasn't following closely) and it's a great performing emitter, with really low vF which means the light output will remain brighter longer and batteries will be able to supply necessary current longer. Mountain Electronics has them on sale right now, just $2 each for bare LEDs + shipping. I think the NF BT40S is a good candidate for trying these out. I ordered some emitters, but am not promising I'll get to do this anytime soon.

(I don't wish to derail this thread, so if there is enough interest in discussion we could start a new thread.)

EDIT - Well it just dawned on me that the emitter swap wouldn't result in HUGE output boosts, but about 50 more lumens per LED, so about 200 lumens. It's not so huge a boost because each LED is only driven at just over 1A each. Now if you'd mod the driver to boost current, well that's another story. It's still a big plus to have the vF lowered for "brighter for longer" output. Also, keep in mind that testing chart was done with emitters mounted to DTP (direct thermal path) pcb's and the BT40's board is not DTP. At +/- 1A per LED that really shouldn't make much difference though.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry ur blf links keep coming back not found


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> If anyone is looking to do an emitter swap for some serious kick in output, nice neutral tint, and high CRI (Color Rendering Index - i.e. higher number = better color rendering) you may want to consider the new Nichia 219C's. This LED is a direct swap with the XP-G2/XP-G's. Test results are in (well they have been, but I wasn't following closely) and it's a great performing emitter, with really low vF which means the light output will remain brighter longer and batteries will be able to supply necessary current longer. Mountain Electronics has them on sale right now, just $2 each for bare LEDs + shipping. I think the NF BT40S is a good candidate for trying these out. I ordered some emitters, but am not promising I'll get to do this anytime soon.
> 
> (I don't wish to derail this thread, so if there is enough interest in discussion we could start a new thread.)
> 
> ...


No, I don't think it's a thread derail but only because you are discussing emitter retro-fit for the BT40S..

Personally I like the tint of the BT40's. Yeah the 219C emitters might make the BT40S more efficient but I doubt that I would find the difference in CRI a major improvement.

That said I think the best way to improve the BT40S would be to use a driver with a little more output or to use a combo ( 2 spot 10°/ 2 mid 15° ) quad optic. Actually the output is fine. A better more refined quad optic though could possible provide a bit more throw without losing too much of the peripheral illumination.

On a side note; the BLF website is starting to look more and more like CPF. It is getting more and more into direct DIY component replacing and evaluation. When I look at all the graphs and data that are being recorded it is enough to give me a head ache.  ( I don't want to read about anyone reflowing bare emitters onto boards. It just annoys me that someone has that kind of equipment and can actual do that.  )


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Garry ur blf links keep coming back not found


Hmm? Working for me. Posted from a PC and just tried now from my phone. I'll try to take look at the links again tomorrow morning. Sorry.

Yes, BLF has largely lost its roots in budget Chinese lights, but it definitely has made great strides on the DIY modding side of things. I don't get too deep into a lot of it, just glean what appeals to me.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

garrybunk said:


> Hmm? Working for me. Posted from a PC and just tried now from my phone. I'll try to take look at the links again tomorrow morning. Sorry.
> -Garry


Links seem fine to me. I even tried logging out of MTBR & BLF and clicking them. They still work. Anyone else have problems with the links?

-Garry


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Love my BT40S…… about to go Nite Riding here in a few hours. 

Can't Wait!!!


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

Sorry for the stupid questions:
Has anyone tried "potting" the electronics with RTV?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No reason to they don't run hot enough and thermal path is good. And telling ppl rtv is good can be bad cause risk of using the wrong rtv that will corrode the electronics and ruin the optics.


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## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

Just got in from a ride with my BT40S & BT21 combo. Loving this set up. I'd been running an MS872 with the BT21 but decided I wanted neutral LED output on the bars, too. It seems like the BT21 may be a bit brighter on the max setting but without a doubt, it's much brighter on the lowest setting. The button light is super bright, as previously stated, though. I'm going to be putting same tape over it for sure.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

redwarrior said:


> Just got in from a ride with my BT40S & BT21 combo. Loving this set up. I'd been running an MS872 with the BT21 but decided I wanted neutral LED output on the bars, too. It seems like the BT21 may be a bit brighter on the max setting but without a doubt, it's much brighter on the lowest setting. The button light is super bright, as previously stated, though. I'm going to be putting same tape over it for sure.


Yeah, the bright indicator back-light is way too bright. Black electrical tape is the easy fix. Once done you will see better too without all that light shining in your eyes.

When I taped mine I left a little sliver of green showing so I know where the buttons are. For me this works.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Today I tore open my BT40S to do the emitter swap to the Nichia 219C's and take a look at the current sense resistors to increase the drive current. While in there I noticed that the LED wires are quite thick but the power lead wires look thin. Think I might replace these with 20awg ones, esp. if I increase drive current. I might just push this baby hard since it has 4 levels. 

I'm working up a video to post on doing the emitter swap to show how easy it is. Maybe I'll do a video on the current sense resistor mod too. I'll also post pics. (I really don't like when you have to watch a video to find the info you want.)

Oh, and did anyone ever mention that the BT40S seems to have that same issue with the thin plastic in the mount that the BT21 has?

-Garry


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> .....
> 
> Oh, and did anyone ever mention that the BT40S seems to have that same issue with the thin plastic in the mount that the BT21 has?
> 
> -Garry


I've got a fix for that!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Today I tore open my BT40S to do the emitter swap to the Nichia 219C's and take a look at the current sense resistors to increase the drive current. While in there I noticed that the LED wires are quite thick but the power lead wires look thin. Think I might replace these with 20awg ones, esp. if I increase drive current. I might just push this baby hard since it has 4 levels.
> 
> I'm working up a video to post on doing the emitter swap to show how easy it is. Maybe I'll do a video on the current sense resistor mod too. I'll also post pics. (I really don't like when you have to watch a video to find the info you want.)
> 
> ...


Garry I look forward to see how this works. Not sure how it will all work though. The BT40S gets pretty hot ( on boost ) as it is. I'm not sure how boosting the output will work out unless you find a way to increase the thermal dissipation of the lamp head.

Even if you do manage to increase the output I'm also not sure that doing so is going to do more than to just increase the amount of light in the immediate foreground. The quad optic on these are just not going to give you that much more throw ( which is what it needs ). Even when I ran two side by side most of the extra light just turned out to translate into more foreground light. While it did add a little extra distance throw IMO it wasn't enough to justify running two lamps. Not to mention that the extra light generated by the two lamps seemed to add way more light in the foreground than what was needed. This extra light also tended to neutralize the beneficial effect of the neutral emitters by making the foreground overly bright.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Today I tore open my BT40S to do the emitter swap to the Nichia 219C's and take a look at the current sense resistors to increase the drive current. While in there I noticed that the LED wires are quite thick but the power lead wires look thin. Think I might replace these with 20awg ones, esp. if I increase drive current. I might just push this baby hard since it has 4 levels.
> 
> I'm working up a video to post on doing the emitter swap to show how easy it is. Maybe I'll do a video on the current sense resistor mod too. I'll also post pics. (I really don't like when you have to watch a video to find the info you want.)
> 
> ...


Wow! I'm excited to see your results for several reasons. A) I just ordered a BT40 (and BT70) a few days ago so this may be something I'm interested in possibly doing. B) My brief experience with the dedoming (accidental) of one of my BT21s shocked me on how much doing something so simple could change the characteristics (increased throw) so much. Are you planning on dedoming some or all of the emitters in this project? C) The subsequent death of said BT21 (general consensus from optic contact with emitter) has left me with a functional light-head that needs an emitter swap (which I don't know how to do yet). For now when I receive the BT40 I plan on running my usual bounce/center beam light meter tests and the thermal ones too. And of course (living in a desert) it will need a Vancbiker GoPro mount. Thanks for doing all this. It looks like it is going to be fun!
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I wasn't planning on dedoming any of the emitters. I did accidently dedome one of the original XP-G2's (and knocked another dome loose), not sure if that'll make it into the video. That would make a nice experiment though - replace the XP-G2's with two dedomed. Then again there would be different tints (dedoming shifts the tints warmer).

Cat- there's a difference between running 8 emitters at the same level (2 BT40S's) and increasing output from 4 emitters. How much difference and what kind of difference? Well we shall see. I'll be looking for input concerning how far this driver can be pushed (i.e. limitations of the components). Tig increased his driver current I believe - how far did you push it Tig? The emitters really should be mounted on DTP copper pcb's (when pushing them hard), but that would get tricky with a quad setup and trimming the pcb's to fit and I don't have the time for that.

-Garry


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

... or you could replece XP-G2 with XP-L HI (already dedomed+bond wires protected)...
Just a thought.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The emitters he's going to use are direct replacement to xp-g2 where size is concerned. I would be afraid to define something like those nichias as tint shift could get really bad.

Garry I pushed it up 600mA, so 300mA per emitter to 1.1A from 0.8. not a huge change but didn't want to cause it to run too hot but bring high mode up where I wanted it. Works great.

Now outing xp-l hi emitter in it sounds like fun lol, so I may try it (though emitters cost almost as much as lighthead)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

XP-L's: Yeah, I thought of that but this is about test running the new Nichia 219C's. Maybe another time.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Tig, my BT40S measured 2.14A on Turbo (1.07A per LED+/-) in stock form (measured power drawn from battery pack) already. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Then they changed the output, cause the ones received earlier in thread were running at 850mah per emitter +/-. Check like page 3 or 4. That's what we've got, if your at 1.07A based on current draw then were both right. They may have boosted the driver a bit to push output a bit higher/closer to rating during normal use. Nitefighter does listen.





What sense resistor ratings and try to read the chip, if you can't really but looks like it starts with "s" or "9", then same chip.





Oh and I thought I was at 1.1, actually calculated by driver now im between 1.05 and 1.1


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I ordered my BT40S way early from their Ebay listing. Ordered right after Andy bought one and reported good things. My driver has two R200 sense resistors. Can't upload pic yet because it's on my regular camera, tomorrow.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry I pulled up my notes:

Calculated: 1A per emitter
Actual at emitters: 902mA

850 just stuck in my head from previous discussion, just crunched some numbers quick, sounded about right.

Just went through and checked my setup as well as notes to see. Calc says 1.4A per emitter now. Draw is at 2.7A off the pack on turbo (fresh pack). So 1.35A per emitter now, call it 1.3A for losses.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I think my original current measurement of 2A+ was a fluke. The next check I did after that showed 1.75A and now after the Nichia swap I'm seeing 1.75A (fresh cells) too.

So what did you do to boost the driver? It appears the R200's are not current sense resistors but voltage limiting resistors. I also think the SS34 diode is limited to 3A.

Here's pics of my driver:



And:


Anyone else feel free to chime in on.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Put r500s on top of the 200s


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I take it you mean 1 R500 on top of each of the R200's?

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yeap, that's it. Its about the thermal limit of the case on high


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> Here's pics of my driver:


As I see, classic Chinese tradition of not cleaning the PCB after soldering is still present here.  Might be the reason for some NF failures reported here...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well no bt40s failures to report yet, just the bt70.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

I know, but IMHO this is a question of time: the company and "culture" of manufacturing is the same.

As soon as one of the solder balls visible on first picture will separate from surface due to riding vibrations and cause shortage, e.g., of U3 chip leads, statistical data will change...


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Good catch Archie! We need to open and inspect our lights. BTW, do you know what is U3 chip and it's feedback voltage? Normaly we are seeing something like 5421a or LEDA chip. This one is marked as MH8015 as far as I can see.

EDIT: never mind, I've found it HERE. Feedback voltage is 0.2V. So the current to the leds is calculated by:

Iled = 0.2/RSENSE or 0.2/0.1 = *2A* with stock R200. 
RSENSE = R1×R2/(R1+R2)

Adding two R500 on top of R200 would lead to 0.2/0.071 = *2.8A* to the leds. Since leds are in 2S2P this is 1.4A per led which is *40% more* than in stock version.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, waiting on beam shots with the new emitters, try to add your old beam shot posts in too. Im curious about the emitters for the lights for my new fat bike (well new to my, 2011 Mukluk that Im picking up friday)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

First of all, here is the video I did on swapping the emitters. I wanted to show how easy a reflow really is (and no expensive equipment necessary). I did edit out some parts (like when I bumped the table 5 times in a row knocking my emitters out of alignment), but it really can be as quick as the video shows (+/- 15 minute job). This was only maybe my 5th or 6th reflow and my second multi-emitter board (first was my KD Duo clone dual XM-L2). If I can do this almost anyone can!






-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok, so y'all wanted beamshots, eh? Well I guess I can accommodate.

I encourage everyone to follow this link to my BLF page where you can view "mouseover" comparisons.

First up, across my backyard, approx. 185 feet to the two trees. First shot is always the original "stock" light and second being the Nichia swapped light (original driver). Photos taken on different dates, but same manual camera settings. Only Turbo mode posted here.

Original:









Nichia modded:









Wooded setting:

Original:









Nichia Modded:









Here is a shot in the woods with the light under the camera (to get that darn bright button out of the view!):









-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Great new beam shots Garry, Thanks! 

The Nichia certainly does appear to have better color rendering than the Cree XP-G2. Always found the NiteFighter BT40S a bit murky when projected on a white wall although it seemed fine out on the trails. The Nichia looks much warmer (like you mentioned, the giveaway is the tree on the right with the reddish blush now visible on its bark) without sacrificing vibrancy in the blue-green end of the spectrum. Would make the same swap myself had I any confidence in my reflow ability, D'oh! Well, maybe if they become available on 16mm stars I can grab a coupla pairs to mod my MJ-816s, which still suffer from the original cold XP-Gs. 

Hope you get a chance to actually take your NiteFighter out on the trails again while the weather still permits.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks Andy. BTW- these Nichias are listed at 5,000k which appears much different (warmer) than Cree's 5,000k. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Garry, congrat. I see you have learnt a lot since you have started to deal with this addictive matter. Reflowing is certainly one of the milstones. 

I've seen over at the BLF Nichias are much aprecciated. From your pictures it can be seen the beam is more evenly spreaded with Nichias while the amount of light is about the same. Good work! The NF should see this and start producing lights with those emitters.

Do you still plan to do resistor mod?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice work Garry, seems I got work to do. To me those emitters aren't so much "warmer" as the higher cri is clearly noticeable. And very worth it!

Btw hows your impressions on temps now. Nichias running noticeably cooler or warmer?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ledoman - yes, I still plan to do the resistor mod (with comparison beamshots if I get to it before the snow piles up).

Tig - temp? You mean color temp or operating temp? Color temp it looks like Nichias run warmer than their rating. Operating temp, no idea. I didn't use the BT40S enough to get a feel for how hot it got. I've not even ran it with Nichias long enough on Turbo to see how hot it gets.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I was looking for temps in case. No worries.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> Ledoman - yes, I still plan to do the resistor mod (with comparison beamshots if I get to it before the snow piles up).


Looking forward to see how it turns out. You can see few posts above how to calculate current to the leds.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Great new beam shots Garry, Thanks!
> 
> *The Nichia certainly does appear to have better color rendering* than the Cree XP-G2. Always found the NiteFighter BT40S a bit murky when projected on a white wall although it seemed fine out on the trails. The Nichia looks much warmer (like you mentioned, the giveaway is the tree on the right with the reddish blush now visible on its bark) without sacrificing vibrancy in the blue-green end of the spectrum. Would make the same swap myself had I any confidence in my reflow ability, D'oh! Well, maybe if they become available on 16mm stars I can grab a coupla pairs to mod my MJ-816s, which still suffer from the original cold XP-Gs.
> 
> Hope you get a chance to actually take your NiteFighter out on the trails again while the weather still permits.


Yes, at first appearance there does look to be better definition. _However you need to consider that the photos have been taken at different times of the year. _ Just the smallest changes in in things like reflective glare from moisture or particles in the air can make a big difference. The same can be said for ground moisture and how it effects leaves and grass on the ground. Moss also will look different at different times of the year. I'm not saying the 219's are better ( or worse ), I'm saying when doing a comparison conditions need to be exactly the same in order to properly judge the differences. One small change in environmental conditions will make a huge difference.

Not long ago I think it was GJHS who took a series of photos on a dirt/gravel fire road. When he came back at a later date to redo some of the photos ALL OF THE LAMPS LOOKED BRIGHTER. This was probably due to the drier ( more lighter colored ) surface of the road than from the originals.

The Nichia's do seem to make better use of the optic, no doubt that too changes a lot of things. I can't help but wonder if there is an actual increase in lumen ( or lux ) output with the Nichias. Knowing that would help to better evaluate the photos. Kudos to Gary for doing all of this and taking time to post the photos and the videos. The video of the reflow is inspirational.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat, ive been researching the specs, their lumen output assuming r5 bin in the bt40 stock, is negligible. Its rated a bit higher but im on s3s and the emitter change was only the slightest visual increase. The nichias are about equal to s2 bin.

But yes environment plays a part. We shall see soon how they are side by side.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I just wanted to add that in the shots of the original the battery looks to be in a more discharged state by looking at the color of the mode button.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I wish I had something with various bright vivid colors to shine lights on and post pics showing their color rendering ability, but I can't think of anything I have like this. Someone a long time ago did something like this with a piece of art and various emitters / tints and it was a great resource. At that time they were showing off the previous generation Nichias (219B's). Wait - here, I found it - see post#5.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

MRMOLE said:


> I just wanted to add that in the shots of the original the battery looks to be in a more discharged state by looking at the color of the mode button.
> Mole


I think the original shots were taken with my same cells in the same Fenix 2 cell case, but prior to my mod of the case to thicker wire. The batteries could have been slightly discharged in that original shot (my notes say batteries nearly full charged). Remember the original with XP-G2's draws more voltage so that causes the batteries to sag more.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I wasn't sure whether or not to post this here, but it is a continuation of the analysis of the Nichia 219C's in the BT40S so here goes.

I took a bunch of photos to try to show color rendering ability of various tints. It's not the best of comparisons because my shots were taken with various lights at various power levels, various beam widths, etc. . . so take the results with a grain of salt. Only pay attention to color rendering and NOT brightness levels! I tried to put each light on a brightness level that was enough to illuminate my subjects without blasting them with too much light. I used manual camera settings (with manual white balance) but adjusted shutter speed to compensate for the different lights brightness levels (i.e. try to get the same exposure level in each photo). The cardboard in the background was the best "pure white" background I could find. Text above the photo it pertains to.

"Daylight" (was 1/2 hour before dusk and not at noon like I would have preferred):


Florescent lighting:


Incandescent lighting:


XM-L 4C:


XM-L 3C:


Triple Nichia 219*B* (high CRI):


HD-016 w/XM-L2 5B1 (My Fav tint):


Nightfighter BT21 (stock except LEDDNA 10º optics):


Nightfighter BT40S modded to Nichia 219*C*:









(The above photo is not posting correctly for me - works in the editor though! If you can't see it, here is a direct link: https://i111.photobucket.com/albums...fighter BT40S Modded Nichia 219C.jpg~original

Gearbest 3x XM-L2 Cool White (probably typical 1A tint):


A Mule headlamp with XM-L2 5B1"


My Convoy M1 with XP-G2 5A2:


*NOTES:*
My white balance may not be using the best setting (I use "incandescent"). If you look at the "Incandescent lighting" pic it looks more orange than I think it was in reality.

You can see a little more green in the 3C tint whereas the 4C looks better.

The Nichia 219*B* has been the long standing champion of high CRI emitters and I must say it looks the closest to what I really saw (I compared this at the moment I took the photo, not just now as I review the photo on a PC monitor hours later). I think my mule headlamp shows my favorite 5B1 tint to be a strong contender with the Nichia 219*B*. The XP-G2 5A2 has always looked a little too "rosy" to me in real use.

-Garry


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Garry, thanks for excellent images: quite informative! :thumbsup:


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## latemp (Jun 21, 2012)

what's the battery life of the bt40? i cant seem to find it listed anywhere.


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

Well, it says on their website it's 3 hours on turbo but I wouldn't be surprised if that's embellished.

NITEFIGHTER?BICYCLE LIGHT


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## latemp (Jun 21, 2012)

Oh ok. i see most people are choosing the bt40 for the handle bars and the bt 21 for the helmet. would the bt 21 not be good for handlebars?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The BT21 would do ok on the bars, but the BT40S has a nice wide even spread of light versus the BT21 having a bit of a hotspot (not too spotty though). I don't have any beamshots of the BT21 in stock form. I modded with LEDDNA 10º optics to tighten the beam a bit for helmet use but the difference isn't huge from stock.

*BT21 with LEDDNA 10º optics:*









and:









*BT40S in stock form:*









and:









Hope that helps.

-Garry


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## latemp (Jun 21, 2012)

it does, thanks. can i get away with just the handlebar light for single track? (i'm new to night riding).


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Well I'm new to night riding singletrack myself and I'd say no. You'll use the helmet lamp to point around corners, shine more light at logs/roots/whatever in front of your tire, etc. . . Of course it depends on how technical your single track is. Imagine a tight turn or even a 180º switchback but your bar light is facing forward and you're about to turn into the dark. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

latemp said:


> it does, thanks. can i get away with just the handlebar light for single track? (i'm new to night riding).


Yes you can if you drive relatively slow. Faster you go more light you need far away. But in any case it is strongly advised to use two lights in case one fails. That's safety rule no.1 so get bar and helmet light.


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## latemp (Jun 21, 2012)

got it. would a regular head lamp be ok to stat out with? i already have one i use for hiking.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Depends on the headlamp and how fast you're riding. You probably want it to shine out (throw) at least 50 feet, probably more like 100 feet.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Most hiking headlamps wont cut it. On single track a bar light only isn't a good idea. HOWEVER a helmet light only I see done by most. I see bar lights only with some but we all know our local trails well so a single light works ok. And its narrow wooded single track so you dont have long site range in most of it.



But for safety you NEVER (group rides are the exception) go out with one light. I keep reading posts here of people raging over light cutting out and having no light to get back. Because they made the stupid decision (sounds rude but its the truth) not at least bringing a flashlight and Velcro strap for a back up.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

latemp said:


> what's the battery life of the bt40? i cant seem to find it listed anywhere.


I can help you out on this. I just got a BT40s kit yesterday and have been doing some testing.

*Run time (Turbo mode): *3 hours 12 minutes to flashing red w/provided battery.

*Max. light-head temp* during run time test (fan cooled): 114.5° - Quite cool running considering this was done in a hot kitchen (85° ambient temp.).

*Bounce test and center-beam light meter lux readings:*

..................low.....med.....high.....turbo.....center-beam

BT40s:.........37......74......110.......145..............26

BT70:............7......51......135.......220..............59

BT21............11......46......107.......180.............45

BT21 w/
Gloworm
Spot optics:..12.......53......116......209..............72

*Center-beam test is accomplished by placing light meter sensor directly in the hot-spot of the beam w/ the meter set @ 1/100 reduction factor (indicates beam intensity and a good predictor of throw).

Its been stormy here (Phoenix) the last 2 nights so I haven't gotten to ride with the BT40s or BT70 yet but there are plenty of ride reviews out there already, I just wanted to post some lux #'s.
Mole


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

MRMOLE said:


> I can help you out on this. I just got a BT40s kit yesterday and have been doing some testing.
> 
> *Run time (Turbo mode): *3 hours 12 minutes to flashing red w/provided battery.
> 
> ...


3+ hours in turbo mode is legit? Astounding. Thank you very much for your testing and additional info. Pumped to receive this light.

By the way, have we figured out at what temp it automatically switches from turbo to high?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks for those measurements mole!

By math that runtime makes sense. We know the packs are made with true 2,600 mAh cells, so 5,200 mAh in 2S2P. Light draws 1.75A (1,750mA) in stock form so 5,200/1,750=2.97 hrs. In reality that lengthens due to voltage drop causing current draw to drop (which also means brightness drops). 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

NotAnotherHill said:


> 3+ hours in turbo mode is legit? Astounding. Thank you very much for your testing and additional info. Pumped to receive this light.
> 
> By the way, have we figured out at what temp it automatically switches from turbo to high?


My reaction too. Not totally surprised though since the BT21 also ran longer than its claimed run-time on turbo @ 2:20 (2hour claimed). I've been very happy with the "good batteries" Nitefighter supplies with its kits. Not typical of inexpensive Chinese lights.

While I haven't run this light to the thermal protection mode yet it's a safe bet it's around 150° (every light I've every done this test on was around 150° except 1, "Branding Iron"). I don't think you'll have to worry too much about overheating this light. Based on the thermal tests I did last night I'd estimate you'd have to have ride temps way over 100° before it would activate the thermal protection (as long as your moving). This looks like it will be a very nice bar light but because of the low center-beam lux reading not a great thrower. What are you planning on using for your helmet-light?
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

ledoman said:


> Feedback voltage is 0.2V. So the current to the leds is calculated by:
> 
> Iled = 0.2/RSENSE or 0.2/0.1 = *2A* with stock R200.
> RSENSE = R1×R2/(R1+R2)
> ...


I only have R330 R120 & R100's on hand. Adding two R330's will yield 3.21A total. Is this too much? Will the SS34 diode hold up to that current? Otherwise I'd have to drop down to (4) R330's (removing R200's) which yield 2.42A. Or I order some R500's and wait.

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Thanks for those measurements mole!
> 
> By math that runtime makes sense. We know the packs are made with true 2,600 mAh cells, so 5,200 mAh in 2S2P. Light draws 1.75A (1,750mA) in stock form so 5,200/1,750=2.97 hrs. In reality that lengthens due to voltage drop causing current draw to drop (which also means brightness drops).
> 
> -Garry


Your welcome, and Thank You for that great video on the emitter swap.
It motivated me to give fixing a try on my nonfunctioning BT21 and if that goes well I'm going to try putting NW emitters in one of my Gemini Olympia lights (higher battery amp draw and programmable driver). Good project for the cooler months.
Mole


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

MRMOLE said:


> My reaction too. Not totally surprised though since the BT21 also ran longer than its claimed run-time on turbo @ 2:20 (2hour claimed). I've been very happy with the "good batteries" Nitefighter supplies with its kits. Not typical of inexpensive Chinese lights.
> 
> While I haven't run this light to the thermal protection mode yet it's a safe bet it's around 150° (every light I've every done this test on was around 150° except 1, "Branding Iron"). I don't think you'll have to worry too much about overheating this light. Based on the thermal tests I did last night I'd estimate you'd have to have ride temps way over 100° before it would activate the thermal protection (as long as your moving). This looks like it will be a very nice bar light but because of the low center-beam lux reading not a great thrower. What are you planning on using for your helmet-light?
> Mole


That's good to hear that it's unlikely to reach that temperature. Did you notice the brightness dropping significantly over the 3 hours (in regards to what Garry said)?

I've ordered a Gloworm x2 v3.1 for my helmet. I wanted to go a little higher quality on my head. And also it has a little more reliable ship date. My Gloworm was ordered a couple days later and should be here today. My BT40s is still processing


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> I only have R330 R120 & R100's on hand. Adding two R330's will yield 3.21A total. Is this too much? Will the SS34 diode hold up to that current? Otherwise I'd have to drop down to (4) R330's (removing R200's) which yield 2.42A. Or I order some R500's and wait.
> 
> -Garry


3.21A (1.6A per led) would be to much. Tipicaly XP-G2 are made for 1.5A. Don't know for Nichias, but probably the same. Running them to high would be contraproductive unless you would have very good cooling which you don't.

Adding just one R330 would lead to 0.2/0.077 = 2.6A or 1.3A per led if this is sufficient for you. I think it might be.

Since all resistors are in paralell it is not necessary to add resistors in pairs.

PS. another combination is one R200 and one R120 => 1.33A per led


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

NotAnotherHill said:


> That's good to hear that it's unlikely to reach that temperature. Did you notice the brightness dropping significantly over the 3 hours (in regards to what Garry said)?
> 
> I've ordered a Gloworm x2 v3.1 for my helmet. I wanted to go a little higher quality on my head. And also it has a little more reliable ship date. My Gloworm was ordered a couple days later and should be here today. My BT40s is still processing


I would "Guess" that if you compared beam-shots side by side of the light in turbo mode with a fully charged battery to one with an almost fully discharged battery you would probably be able to tell a small difference. Riding I doubt you'll be able to tell because the battery power and light intensity will gradually diminish and your eyes will adjust to the difference. Not really an issue.

That Gloworm is just what you need for your helmet (NW emitters preferable). Great light with lots of throw. Maximum setting lux #'s will be very similar to the BT21 w/Gloworm optics that I posted. Good luck with your new lights!
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

These Nichias can pull massive amounts of amps (see BLF thread test) but of course that's on copper Noctigon pcb's. I'm ok with up to 1.5A per LED on aluminum. Maybe I'll try 1 R120 & 1 R200 combination. Really having a hard time finding good cheap US source for R500's.

Thanks
-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I just buy my sense resistors from mouser. Hard to find cheap Chinese parts in the states


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You got a link so I don't have to sift thru for hours? I took a quick look and found hundreds of option but don't have enough time to sift through them (also tough to sift thru on my phone).

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No link, I just go through the site quick, current sense resistor, 1206 size iirc, pick the rating and pick from the list. I have no time today to get near my computer and your right, pain in the rear from a phone


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok, I found these by searching from Google instead of on Mouser. Specs seem ok. Maybe I should order some other values I don't have on hand while I'm at it. 
RL1206FR-070R5L Yageo | Mouser

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yeap thems be it


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## canker (Jul 26, 2007)

My bt40s from kaidomain finally showed up today. It just comes in a box and not the fancy case they use to show in the ads, they just show the box in the ads now. The UP/DOWN button is no longer backwards, up = brighter down = dimmer. The battery says BA8C-B on it. Is that still the good one?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Ok, I found these by searching from Google instead of on Mouser. Specs seem ok. Maybe I should order some other values I don't have on hand while I'm at it.
> RL1206FR-070R5L Yageo | Mouser
> 
> -Garry


Garry, When I looked at your link the resistor you linked to was 0.5 ohm. I thought you were looking for 500 ohm resistors.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Cat you've been probably missleaded by markings R500 we were using. R stands here for comma, so 0.500 Ohm.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah, those R's can get confusing. Even more confusing when FastTech calls the "R100" a "0.1R" : https://m.fasttech.com/products/0/10007371/1615807-1206-0-1r-smd-precision-resistors-100-piece

I went ahead and ordered some SS54 5A diodes as well, but it seems that tiny FET 
may need replaced as well. (This is all if you want to drive it over 3A which I'm not sure is worth all the hassle.) I'm not sure if the rest of the components would handle over 3A.

I'm also curious to see if simply replacing the power input wire (dc connector) will allow it to reach the calculated 2A current in stock form it should be drawing. I will report back on this.

-Garry


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## stutru (Mar 10, 2010)

stevenk4563 said:


> Spotted this on GB today for those of you using GoPro mounts, works with BT40S and BT21 apparently.
> 
> Gopro Adapter for Nitefighter BT21 / BT70 / BT40S Headlamp-1.68 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com





Cat-man-do said:


> Thanks for the link. I have to wonder how long they have had these. If they had these when I ordered my lamp I would have included one with my order ( lamp head only )...
> 
> Still haven't received my order.


I just got these in. They work perfect on my BT21, but on my BT70 and BT40S, they don't sit right. They either clash with the power cable coming out the bottom or if you turn it 180 degrees, there is no longer a flat machined into the bottom of the lights and it doesn't sit flush. Anyone had any experience with this? Thinking of taking a dremel tool and routing out a little channel. Figure as they are made with aluminum, i can cut out a section and not loose much strength.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

These are new ur one of the first to own them, seems they designed them to replace the previous gopro mount for the bt21. Makes sense since its really the only helmet suitable light. I wouldn't see any issues taking a dremel to it as long as there is enough material not to interfere with screw hole or mounting tabs.


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## stutru (Mar 10, 2010)

tigris99 said:


> These are new ur one of the first to own them, seems they designed them to replace the previous gopro mount for the bt21. Makes sense since its really the only helmet suitable light. I wouldn't see any issues taking a dremel to it as long as there is enough material not to interfere with screw hole or mounting tabs.


I was hoping to mount either the BT40S or BT70 to the bars using this:
Bike Aluminum Handlebar Long Mount with Hexagon Wrench-3.91 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

The goal being to get the light up and over any cables to avoid any reflection.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> I went ahead and ordered some SS54 5A diodes as well, but it seems that tiny FET may need replaced as well. (This is all if you want to drive it over 3A which I'm not sure is worth all the hassle.) I'm not sure if the rest of the components would handle over 3A.


I don't think it's worth either unless you improve heatisinking or you would have been very carefull how to use the highest mode. Also you would need to care about enough voltage to support this (very likely with 2S3P battery pack)

As an example. Yesterday I've finaly put together 6up (6 XM-L2 in series) light with 10 step driver. It was waiting more than a year to get me in right mood. From 2S3P pack (old 2900 Panasonic, no PCM) it pulls 35W on highest mode and it is already near low voltage limit. I've done 4 mods to the driver, lower the low voltage limit (added 1M Ohm resistor in voltage divider part), changed input capacitor to bigger one, added tantalum capacitor on the output side and most importantly heatsinked the driver with copper rings so it has thermal path to the light head. Interesting powering it with 3S2P (12.6V) pack it pulls 30W but it apears brighter - ie. more efficient and no problem with low voltage.



garrybunk said:


> I'm also curious to see if simply replacing the power input wire (dc connector) will allow it to reach the calculated 2A current in stock form it should be drawing. I will report back on this.


Might help a bit, but you need to look the whole path from battery cells to the driver. Changing or adding another tantalum input capacitor (marking 107c) to bigger capacitance might help too which smothens oscialtions from the pack. 107c is 16V capacitor. It would be interesting to see if the rest of circuit can stand the power from 3S battery pack.

And BTW, changing connectors to something like XT60 would help to, but of course we are all passing that point because of compatibility with others lights and packs.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

stutru said:


> I was hoping to mount either the BT40S or BT70 to the bars using this:
> Bike Aluminum Handlebar Long Mount with Hexagon Wrench-3.91 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
> 
> The goal being to get the light up and over any cables to avoid any reflection.


I mount on the normal aluminum mounts, never a reflection problem. The cables simply being below the lamp (even in front of just below the head) and no issues what so ever. I tried the mount you linked, I HATE that thing lol. Sticks out so gang far. Rotating a normal mount forward with the light is what i liked best, brings the head down a bit, get the indicator lights more out of view. And never reflected off my cables. I guess it could be an issue if your running your cables really long (too long) off the bars. Now im using a GUB extension mount that brings the light out front, even lower and allows it to be mounted centered off my stem. My hole symetrical OCD issue


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Cat you've been probably missleaded by markings R500 we were using. R stands here for comma, so 0.500 Ohm.


Ah, this is something new to me. Is this some new standard I'm not aware of? Goodness those things are small.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I don't think it's something new. See an examples SMD resistor code calculator


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

On electronic components letters are used instead of decimal delimiter for decades, long before SMD era...


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## NWAtrailyguy (Aug 13, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Most hiking headlamps wont cut it. On single track a bar light only isn't a good idea. HOWEVER a helmet light only I see done by most. I see bar lights only with some but we all know our local trails well so a single light works ok. And its narrow wooded single track so you dont have long site range in most of it.
> 
> But for safety you NEVER (group rides are the exception) go out with one light. I keep reading posts here of people raging over light cutting out and having no light to get back. Because they made the stupid decision (sounds rude but its the truth) not at least bringing a flashlight and Velcro strap for a back up.


Tigris...it's not just that concern. When you run just one light, if you have a complete failure at a critical point in your ride, you could easily get badly hurt. With your light on the helmet, and the inability to see your battery indicator, some lights will just cut out completely with no warning. Then there's always the chance that your wire or the internal circuitry within the light head itself may be "hanging by a thread," and that drop you just completed was the straw that broke the camel's back. Nothing like going 15-20 mph and things going completely dark on you!

It has happened now to two of our group riders, and it woke all of us up to the importance of at least having some sort of secondary light on the bars, even if it's not bright enough to pilot an entire ride. It would at least prevent a complete "black out" should your primary light fail.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

ledoman said:


> I don't think it's worth either unless you improve heatisinking or you would have been very carefull how to use the highest mode. Also you would need to care about enough voltage to support this (very likely with 2S3P battery pack)


ledoman, voltage shouldn't be an issue with the Nichia 219C's (since their vF is so darn low). "Turbo" mode would only be for "wow" or extreme use. There are quite a few BLF'ers running triple Nichia 219C's at over 10A in small flashlights from a single 18650 for about 3,000 lumens.

I'm thinking to swap the SS34 diode for the SS54 even if I do stay around 3A (since I have them on-hand anyway). If I knew for sure I could get another lighthead cheap I would experiment a little more recklessly, but I don't want to kill this light.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Garry, it is not just Vf of the leds but also the voltage drop in batteries and cables/connector/driver. It all sumarize in the non linear manner. Every bit counts at higher currents. Having lower Vf at leds is shurely good thing compensating some looses in other parts.

BTW mode spacing in BT40 is not all that good to me. Would love to have something like 5,20,50,100 or similar. That way raised power would be more significant and high mode would be normaly more than sufficient. Of course this is mine opinion.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Replaced the power input cable to the DX 20ga but same current drawn as stock. Tried different cells just to be sure. Oh well. Perhaps it'll help after boosting driver output anyway. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

stutru said:


> I just got these in. They work perfect on my BT21, but on my BT70 and BT40S, they don't sit right. They either clash with the power cable coming out the bottom or if you turn it 180 degrees, there is no longer a flat machined into the bottom of the lights and it doesn't sit flush. Anyone had any experience with this? Thinking of taking a dremel tool and routing out a little channel. Figure as they are made with aluminum, i can cut out a section and not loose much strength.











This what your talking about? I'm going to try the dremel too. The BT40 works OK this way but the BT70 has too much weight to be off set to the front like it is (need support centered better). I'm not going to get to it for a couple of days so if you do yours and can post a picture that would be great.
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I wonder how well the tab will hold up. Looks too thin to me......


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I see it holding up ok for bt21, but once you remove material I dont see it doing well for long. And WONT put up with BT70 for long regardless. WAY TOO THIN for a light that big.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> On electronic components letters are used instead of decimal delimiter for decades, long before SMD era...


When I learned electronics I never saw a "Surface Mount Device" component. ( guess that helps tell you how old I am.. ) Back in my day every component required a hole. The whole SMD tech ( along with the notations ) is all new to me. After doing some quick research I'm quite surprised at how screwed up all the component coding is for all the different components. Not to mention how hard it is now to tell capacitors from resistors now...they almost look the same. Goodness, I'd need a pair of jeweler glasses to work with this stuff it's so small.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> When I learned electronics I never saw a "Surface Mount Device" component. ( guess that helps tell you how old I am.. ) Back in my day every component required a hole. The whole SMD tech ( along with the notations ) is all new to me.


I started learning EE basics with vacuum tube-based schematics & equipment - but even back then, big 1 Watt cylindrical resistors were marked like "47K", "4K7" and ""K47"...

Good old days, when no magnifying glass or low-voltage insulated soldering iron were required in order to repair sometiong...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> I wonder how well the tab will hold up. Looks too thin to me......


Whoa!...The "Conflict of Interest" alarm on my computer is going off. :ihih:
Okay, I turned it off before it burst my ear drums. ( lol )

Maybe adding some small washers and a longer screw to make it sit better. Yeah, not much metal but metal is stronger than plastic so perhaps it will hold...Personally, I'd rather have one of those nice GoPro adaptors by that ...oh, what's his name now....forgot, "Fancy...mancybiker??...something like that. :arf:


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

Hiya, got my lights yesterday  but im not sure what to make of the power indicator light...with a SS case and fully charged Samsung icr18650-26Fs, even avoiding turbo setting, its going to yellow within 10 minutes which is pretty alarming! My old cheapo 4 x 18650 packs seem the do much better, staying on green for an hour. 
There were a few posts about this on page 2 i think saying that the prebuilt packs would have less voltage drop which was causing the indicator light to show low power with the SS + 4 cell set up...based on what the lights are showing, i should use the prebuilt battery packs...?
Im seriously clueless about electrics (and i have tried believe me), so if anyone can explain whats going on, id be really grateful! 
Thanks!!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Whoa that tab does look thin! Looking back on Gearbest's product page it looks thin there too (didn't notice it back when I ordered).

-Garry


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> Whoa!...The "Conflict of Interest" alarm on my computer is going off. :ihih:
> Okay, I turned it off before it burst my ear drums. ( lol )


Sorry!, should have warned all to turn off their "Conflict of Interest" alarms in the front of the post.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I used a cutting disk on my dremel to give this mount clearance for the power cord. Centers the weight a lot better and should take some stress off that thin tab.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Still working on my BT40S driver mod. Just wanted to share (for those that don't know) how small these components are. Here is a replacement FET:










Pretty frustrating when you drop it on the floor and have to find it!

So far I've upgraded the FET, the SS34 diode, and added my current sense resistors. I spend just a couple minutes per night on it when I get a chance. I haven't tested it yet, but will be in the near future.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Garry would you elaborate what elements exactly you have used?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I was going to wait to see if this was a success or not, but ok. I've replaced the SS34 with an SS54 (which is huge in comparison - didn't realize that). I also replaced the stock "2300" FET (datasheet found here) with an "AO3400" ("A09T" chip marking - datasheet here). I happened to have the AO3400's on-hand from a flashlight mod. Lastly I added (2) R200's on top of the (2) stock R200's  . Of course I already replaced the power cable with the DX 20 gauge one. (I'm getting some help from a buddy over at BLF.)

Current state of driver:









Comparison of the SS54 to the SS34:









-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

If Im not wrong this would be 2A per led. Hopefuly all will stand it.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

ledoman said:


> If Im not wrong this would be 2A per led.


 Yep, that was my goal.



ledoman said:


> Hopefuly all will stand it.


I hope too!

-Garry


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1023933
> 
> 
> I used a cutting disk on my dremel to give this mount clearance for the power cord. Centers the weight a lot better and should take some stress off that thin tab.
> Mole


Wow, I wasn't expecting to have to modify these Nitefighter mounts. Seems Nitefighter got these mounts wrong twice? The first ones had the tabs oriented east/west.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The mounts were only ever listed with the bt21 (according to nitefighter website and product pages around the web). These will work fine for the bt21, just not the other 2


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> The mounts were only ever listed with the bt21 (according to nitefighter website and product pages around the web). These will work fine for the bt21, just not the other 2


So really its a GearBest screw up since it says "Adapter for Nitefighter BT21 / BT70 / BT40S Headlamp - BLACK " on their site.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

According to this page, they were to fit all models..

Adapter for Nitefighter BT21 / BT70 / BT40S Headlamp-1.73 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Here's a shot of the only way the mounts would work unmodified. The BT40 is on the right.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Fired up my driver-modded BT40S for a bench test. Started out at 3.3A from 2 fully charged protected cells in my modded Fenix Case. Left her burn-in and no smoke, no hot components either. After 2 minutes the lighthead was starting to get uncomfortable to hold in my hand. Wow it's A LOT of light! 

This light will definitely need powered from my homemade 2S3P pack made from the Xiaomi power banks. (Need to finish that.)

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice work garry, sounds like the nichias like being ran at 1.5 and up far better than XP -g2s


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

Just got my shipping notification from GearBest for my BT40s. Ordered 10/14, shipping via DHL.


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

Just got my BT40s. Man, DHL is fast!

Question: Can I use my Gloworm X2 charger (8.4v, 1500mA) rather than my BT40s charger (8.4v, 2000mA) to charge my BT40s battery? For some reason the charger that came with my BT40s shows green (done charging) when I plug it in, whereas when I turn on the light, it glows yellow (meaning the battery is 25-50%). I tried the Gloworm charger with the BT40s battery for a minute and the charger showed red (charging).


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, the Gloworm charger will be fine. Maybe Tigris99 can speak to the BT40S charger behavior. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I know the nitefighter chargers sometimes are delayed in going from green to red to show charging. Hopefully your plugging charger into wall first then battery into charger. I dont have the bt40 specific charger, but I have a bt21 charger which I assume is the same, as well as the bt70 charger which the case is different but function is the same. Yet to have any issues with either, but my bt21 charger does have all the certifications stamped on the sticker where as bt70 version doesn't.


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

Hmm, yeah, I plugged the charger into the wall first, then the battery. I also let the battery sit on the charger for 20 minutes or so and the light stayed green. The charger does have certifications on it. I think I will just use the Gloworm charger for now. 

Thanks guys!


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

Also, is there any way to rotate the light on the bars that I don't know about? My bars are kind of angled backwards, so the light wants to point away from center. I tried loosening and turning the mount (can only rotate it slightly because the cord limits the amount of rotation) and it helped a little bit, but the light still pointing off center of the bike.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No these mounts are generic design. Made for normal bars where the sweep doesn't start till a bit from center. Only way I can see is a gopro bar mount and an adapter (basic magicshine style, no the bt40s specific version). Will allow for some rotation on the mount that will help.


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

Alright, thanks again Tigris. It's not too bad, especially now that I rotated it a tad.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Some GoPro mounts are about half the width of the stock mount so it sits closer to the stem where most bars are still straight. That usually eliminates any need to twist the light on the mount.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm . . . I might have this driver boosted for too much light (is there such a thing?) Here are some beamshots using 4 fully charged unprotected cells in my old Pannova case. Current measured off the case was 3.48A peak dropping to about 3.2A (so Turbo would give more output yet if I can get a pack to provide the full 4A output. (Remember, these beamshots are with Nichia 219C LEDs.) Click images to see larger.

Boosted Driver:


Stock driver:


Boosted Driver:


Stock Driver:


And here's how much more output low has now (it pulls about 1.0A on low for +/- 500mA per LED).

Boosted driver:


Stock Driver:


So what do you think? Should I lower output to bring Low-Med-High back down some?

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

My thoughts; I guess it really depends on what you want to look at when you run the lamp. To me the first photo ( boosted ) just looks to have too much feedback glare. It just reminds me of what the output looked like when I ran two BT40's on the bars. Personally I didn't like the effect as it just created more close-in glare so now I only use one BT40S on the bars. 

The optic on the BT40S was designed specifically for the rated output of the lamp. More output just puts more light near the bike which you really don't need. Now if there was another quad optic that could steer more of the output into the distance then the boosted output of the modded set-up would absolutely rock.

Just keep in mind that all of what I just said is only based on what I'm seeing in the photos. I usually ride in low or medium and I'm fine. If I owned your boosted set-up I might actually like it, who's to say but my gut feeling is that I wouldn't really need or like the extra output. ( using the same optics )


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

Ordered this mount for my BT40s. _Hope _it works 
Hope Universal Handlebar Mount | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## latemp (Jun 21, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> My thoughts; I guess it really depends on what you want to look at when you run the lamp. To me the first photo ( boosted ) just looks to have too much feedback glare. It just reminds me of what the output looked like when I ran two BT40's on the bars. Personally I didn't like the effect as it just created more close-in glare so now I only use one BT40S on the ba
> 
> The optic on the BT40S was designed specifically for the rated output of the lamp. More output just puts more light near the bike which you really don't need. Now if there was another quad optic that could steer more of the output into the distance then the boosted output of the modded set-up would absolutely rock.
> 
> Just keep in mind that all of what I just said is only based on what I'm seeing in the photos. I usually ride in low or medium and I'm fine. If I owned your boosted set-up I might actually like it, who's to say but my gut feeling is that I wouldn't really need or like the extra output. ( using the same optics )


how flexible is the bar mount? once you clamp the ligh to the bars can it swivel left and right or up and down? i have a problem getting the beam to go where i want with the super cheap light i have now because it has no adjustability


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

None of these have an adjustable mount, you can tilt up and down fairly easy but there is no swivel. There is never a swivel on these lights.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

latemp said:


> how flexible is the bar mount? once you clamp the ligh to the bars can it swivel left and right or up and down? i have a problem getting the beam to go where i want with the super cheap light i have now because it has no adjustability


















The problem with this light and horizontal rotation is the power cord is so close to the mounting hole. The stock mount runs the cord through channel but it also prevents much rotation because the cord interferes.
The GoPro mount in the pictures is available @ Dealsmachine/Gearbest and will allow rotation "BUT" the mounting tab is very thin and durability is questionable (stock mount too). The only way this mount will fit is with the GoPro adapter interface @ the front of the light adding stress to the thin tab so I modified the mount to clear the cord and center the weight better over the interface (2nd picture). The mount was less than $2 and I think I paid about $8 for the alloy Gopro handlebar adapter (not shown) on Amazon. Not perfect but at least it's an option.

Tigris - I've not seen Vancbikers mount for the BT40. Do you know if it runs the power cable through a channel or a hole? I would guess he could always make a custom one that allowed rotation.

Mole


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

latemp said:


> how flexible is the bar mount? once you clamp the ligh to the bars can it swivel left and right or up and down? i have a problem getting the beam to go where i want with the super cheap light i have now because it has no adjustability


In my post above you, I mentioned I bought this mount:
Hope Universal Handlebar Mount | Chain Reaction Cycles

I haven't received it yet, but it should allow me to swivel the light.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

For what its worth, Yinding lights have a bar mount that allows swiveling.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

FYI....
I ordered a 40 and a 21 on 10/20.
The 40 arrived today in MA
The 21 is b/o'd for a few weeks...per the confirmation email
I paid the $1.45 expedite/ shipping fee and it went DHL


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

kwarwick said:


> For what its worth, Yinding lights have a bar mount that allows swiveling.


Most lights I've seen allow swiveling to some degree. Nitefighters don't follow this description though with power cable exit conflicts (BT40 & BT70) and unusual additional machining on the interface areas (BT21).
If this is a big deal to buyers then they should plan on spending extra for accessory mounts or look else where for appropriate lights.
Mole


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## SimonNI (Jan 12, 2015)

How do you change the lense in these? 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You don't. I don't believe there is an aftermarket optic direct fit available. 

-Garry


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## SimonNI (Jan 12, 2015)

Oh right. There was another lense in the box so thought you could change them over. It looks like one for making the beam wider. Cheers tho. 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Oh yeah, forgot about that. I don't have that wider lense since I only bought the lighthead. I think the consensus Is that that wider lense is too wide.

-Garry


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Very happy with my new adaptor for my bt40s…. thanks again Vanc!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

DustyTrail said:


> Very happy with my new adaptor for my bt40s&#8230;. thanks again Vanc!


Question, how does the adapter route the power cable? Is there a machined channel or a drilled hole or just a very small contact area?
Picture would be preferable if not too much of a problem. Thanks!
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mole. He cuts a channel (see the universal magicashine adapter on his web page). That's why the thickness between the light head and the fins compared to our bt21 and yinding adapters.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Mole. He cuts a channel (see the universal magicashine adapter on his web page). That's why the thickness between the light head and the fins compared to our bt21 and yinding adapters.


Thanks! I'm guessing that's not going to allow for much horizontal adjustment of the light. FYI, tracking on my BT21 replacement light-head for the no show ordered on 8/12 shows it arrived in New York yesterday so I should finally get next week.
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> Question, how does the adapter route the power cable? Is there a machined channel or a drilled hole or just a very small contact area?
> Picture would be preferable if not too much of a problem. Thanks!
> Mole


There is a channel for the cable. I've tried to maintain as much contact area as possible to transfer heat to the adapter. A smear of thermal paste in between is a good idea to add additional heat conduction.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Vancbiker said:


> A smear of thermal paste in between is a good idea to add additional heat conduction.


Sorry for my naivety &#8230;but, a smear of paste between the bt40s and the adaptor?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

DustyTrail said:


> Sorry for my naivety &#8230;but, a smear of paste between the bt40s and the adaptor?


Thermal paste is used between things that generate heat and a heatsink. It's usually a white paste. You see it often between things like computer CPUs and their heatsinks. Computer geek stores where they build custom systems will have it. It's a good idea for maximum heat transfer but not a necessity.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

thanks for the quick reply Vanc… and that answers my next question as to whether or not its a necessity. 

I will more then likely get a tube from Amazon when it starts to warm up again here. 

I don't think heat will be too much of an issue as we are entering the cooler months.

Thanks again for the adaptor…it fits flush with the light and there is absolutely no movement! 

Totally Solid!!!!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> There is a channel for the cable. I've tried to maintain as much contact area as possible to transfer heat to the adapter. A smear of thermal paste in between is a good idea to add additional heat conduction.


Thanks for the picture. I was looking at this light and came up with this layout for those who require horizontal adjustment. This is your standard Yinding mount and with a few minor modifications it looks like it would work acceptably.
Mole


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I just took the BT40 out for a ride.
After seeing all the buzz here, I picked it up as a replacement for my 3 year old XML tri clone ( which has been a great light )
Mixed feelings about it.
The neutral color is better in some situations....the same or worse in others.
I tend to run the tri clone on middle or high....I will definitely be running the 40 on high( edit:turbo)
Because all 3 LEDs(edit: 4) run on the 40....it's a little better spread than the tri clone on mid ( with on 2 LEDs running)
What kind of run times are you guys getting with the 40 on high( turbo)?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Bt40 has 4 leds btw. 

And high is about 3-4 hrs run time. And it still has another level. Turbo, which it maintains for 2 hrs.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Bt40 has 4 leds btw.
> 
> And high is about 3-4 hrs run time. And it still has another level. Turbo, which it maintains for 2 hrs.


Turbo?
It has a Turbo on it? I'm pretty sure it doesn't.
Turbo is the new high in BT40 world.
When I say high....I guess I mean Turbo....which is, well.....stupid.
And yes....I meant 4 LEDs

So I guess I should say that I was comparing the tri clone on middle and high against the BT40 on high and turbo
Still feel meh about this light.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well by labeling of lights (used in flashlight world) is low-medium-high-turbo. So when you say "high" on these that's how we're thinking. Nitefighter makes flashlights too so its all labeled the same for modes im guessing.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I want a light that has Plaid mode.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1025652
> 
> 
> Thanks for the picture. I was looking at this light and came up with this layout for those who require horizontal adjustment. This is your standard Yinding mount and with a few minor modifications it looks like it would work acceptably.
> Mole


Yeah that gets around the cable in the way of swiveling problem. I can mod these things (within some reason) to do about anything a guy could want. Having a few degrees of swivel would be a pretty easy mod but would come at the cost of a loss of surface contact.

I made a couple swiveling slide lock adapters for the Serfas True 500 light for a guy. They came out pretty sweet. Could spin these to any angle desired.


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## Wire (Nov 2, 2015)

the mayor said:


> Turbo?
> It has a Turbo on it? I'm pretty sure it doesn't.
> Turbo is the new high in BT40 world.
> When I say high....I guess I mean Turbo....which is, well.....stupid.
> ...


Same for me. Maybe my expectations have been too high, or something is wrong with my BT40. Turbo is less than my cheap Tri clone on medium, and similar to my KD2 on highest level.

What worries me is the fact that the BT40 does not get hot on Turbo (I have a SS X2, KD duo clone, and a Tri clone, and all of them get very hot on high). I opened the head and wanted to add some thermal paste, but was unable to remove the LED board. Seems it was glued to the heat sink.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK THIS IS ON THE ASSUMPTION THE LATEST BATCH OF BT40S is the same as the orginals (was no need to change it so should be)

Turbo isnt crazy powerful, the light is rated at 1600 lumens, 1300ish actual. Turbo COULD use a bit more to it. But thats spread over a LARGE AREA compared to the other lights your trying to compare it to which put the beams into a much tighter "spot". So the bt40s will NEVER appear as bright as something set up for a tight spot because the spot itself is where the lumens are concentrated. BT40s spreads the lumens out so you can see more around you, not just a 3ft circle in front of you.

They get hot if you let them run long enough but it takes a while. Thats actually A GOOD THING as its thermal path and dissipation is quite good. Where as the SSx2 (unless you have an original with pills for emitter stars and not the single emitter plate) and KD Duo clone both have horribly bad thermal paths.

Also, you cant compare cool white and neutral white tints, it just DOESNT WORK. You can sphere test both types to prove they have THE EXACT SAME LUMEN OUTPUT, but the cool white will look far brighter and at some level, wash out colors and details.

2 things have ot be done to make bt40s effective. First is dont run it with a second Cool white light. Other is let your eyes and brain get used to it, changing from being used to cool white take a bit, but trying to go back to cool white afterwards....most shelf their cool white lights.

Heres my video using just a bt40s and bt21. BOTH ON HIGH MODE ONLY, bt21 gets pushed to turbo near the end (bt21 is using 15deg optics instead of stock frosted)


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Looking at MRMOLES tests here.....the 40 shows some low numbers.
As far as beam spread/pattern....my old tri clone in medium, with only 2 leds running is almost as good....and better on high. But on high, in certain conditions, there is glare/wash out



MRMOLE said:


> I can help you out on this. I just got a BT40s kit yesterday and have been doing some testing.
> 
> *Run time (Turbo mode): *3 hours 12 minutes to flashing red w/provided battery.
> 
> ...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So after all this discussion, I decided to run my bt40s last night.

Still enough imo unless your on trails you can get some serious speed BUT...

Compared to bt21, my ssx3 with optics mod and such, ya its lacking in stock form. But still more light than my black (unmodded) yinding, ssx2 (I dont have the good older one) or kd2 duo clone.

I can understand the complaints a bit now by some. It varies alot by personal preferences and such. Some are a bit over exaggerated but its not the brightest light out there. Guys like me, there is easily a thing as too much light.

But when you look at a couple details it makes sense. The head is small, light, and runs nice and cool. The emitters in all these others are XML or xm-l2, which have a good bit more output vs xp-g2s of the bt40s.

Bt40s definitely isn't for everyone, but its a good, solid light.


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

After all the worry set forth here on the forums regarding Gearbest order i'm happy that I received my BT40s on Saturday. Ordered it on 10/10/15 via the cheapo method so pretty much seemed to match expectations that it would be a couple of weeks. It's nice that it literally showed up the night that daylight savings was going into effect.

So far I haven't had a chance to get out on a trail ride yet but I was able to take a quick sprint down the bike path along the creek. Indoors it didn't seem impressively bright but on my ride I was happy to see how well it lit things up. Now hopefully my BT21 comes in soon. Unfortunately my mother ordered it for a birthday gift so I have no way to check to see if it shipped or not. My B-day is not for another few weeks so would feel funny calling up my mom and asking if it's shipped or not lol


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## Doedrums (Mar 7, 2010)

My BT40 showed up on Oct 30th after ordering it on the 8th. Tried it out and have zero gripes so far. Hoping to go for a longer ride and see about run time.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

3rd ride tonight on the birthday candle called a BT40.
The rubber switch cover in the rear is starting to rotate....which makes it hard to impossible to change light settings.
The good thing is there is never a reason to go below the falsely advertised name of "turbo"


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Just curious Mr mayor, where did you order your BT40S from? And did you order a full kit? I'd also love to hear what the current draw is that your light is pulling off your pack. 

-Garry


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Just curious Mr mayor, where did you order your BT40S from? And did you order a full kit? I'd also love to hear what the current draw is that your light is pulling off your pack.
> 
> -Garry


I ordered from Gearbest....full kit.
At this point....I plan to just call my credit card or paypal and get my money back and be done with it.
Maybe I got a lemon.
Maybe this new batch is bad ( as per a couple others here)
Maybe they are just over hyped.
Don't know...don't care


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Wire said:


> Same for me. Maybe my expectations have been too high, or something is wrong with my BT40. Turbo is less than my cheap Tri clone on medium, and similar to my KD2 on highest level.
> 
> What worries me is the fact that *the BT40 does not get hot on Turbo *(I have a SS X2, KD duo clone, and a Tri clone, and all of them get very hot on high). I opened the head and wanted to add some thermal paste, but was unable to remove the LED board. Seems it was glued to the heat sink.


 My BT40s gets hot pretty quick on turbo. Like within a couple minutes it gets hot. I tested it for use as a headlamp and realized quickly that on turbo this thing runs hot. It was too hot to comfortably use on turbo as a headlamp. It's possible there is an issue with your light or less output on newer Bt40s.

I already stated this earlier in this thread, but I am disappointed with the throw of the light. It has tons of flood and the output within close up to mid range is decent. Tint is good, I have no complaints there. I had to open my light and fix the rear switch cover when I first got it, but no big deal.

It is an inexpensive Chinese light so if it's not perfect then it's understandable. For the price of the full kit I couldn't even buy a replacement battery for some of my lights so yes these things are cheaply priced. Not quite dirt cheap, but not far from it in my opinion. I supplement the lack of throw of the BT40s with a neutral white flashlight that I mount on the other side of the bar. It punches out ahead of the bt40s and the tint blends well. Having the flashlight also adds a level of safety as you can only depend on a Chinese light so much. I use a helmet light too so currently I'm running three lights total. The total output of my setup is over 3,000 actual lumens, but I usually don't use them on maximum power. Half that works well for the most part for me.

I will likely use the BT40s for a year or maybe two and upgrade, at which point if this light is still working, I'll pass this light along to someone else.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Let's stay comm. Either "the major" has got bad performed item or he is not knowing/understanding what he should be getting.

1. If he has got bad one it is understadanble he is not satisfied. Some measurments of voltage/current from the battey pack should more or less prove that.

2. If he is not knowing what the light can deliver it is another story and I don't like his attitude, either. The light using XP-G2 leds just can't deliver same level as XM-L2 can. In fact it is just about half of XM-L2. The bonus of this light is beam profile very suitable for bar usage and can be very usable as companion to the helmet light.

I agree with him the terminology of "turbo" mode in this case is not very suitable as it is just about 25% over Hi mode. Which human eyes detects merely something like 10-13% difference. I don't like that mode spacing either, but I like the beam profile most.

And to be honest - *there is no such thing as perfect light.* So everyone can see it different. Of course you can be polite or .... not.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

What I thought I was getting....after reading all the rave reviews here...is a upgrade to my old tri clone.

It isn't for me.
I would use this light to noodle around on smooth paths....but not for going fast on New England single track ( rocky, rooty and twisty)

Mine also does not get hot.....I have left it on turbo for a few minutes while futzing with it....still just warm to touch on a 50f night.
And this may be why some are saying they get 3 hours on Turbo ( I am right at 3)...it just isn't using or putting out power.

I don't have any way of testing current draw.

Add in the floating rubber switch cover....who knows what I'm going to find inside when I take it apart to fix that

It did come in a nice box though.

I like my other cheap lights better....most of which I bought on recommendations here( but I've had a few other bad ones....I know that's the deal with dealing with cheap stuff)

I'll just get my money back and not deal with gearbest any more.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> What I thought I was getting....after reading all the rave reviews here...is a upgrade to my old tri clone.
> 
> It isn't for me.
> I would use this light to noodle around on smooth paths....but not for going fast on New England single track ( rocky, rooty and twisty)
> ...


FWIW, I just did a quick 5M lux comparison of the old tri-clone I have and compared it to the BT40S. Yes, the tri-clone has a slightly higher 5M lux rating...255 vs. 211 for the 40S. This just basically shows the triclone has better throw which is to be expected because it uses a tri-reflector vs. the quad optic of the 40S. Other than that I would think that both lamps output close to the same amount of light ( give or take 100 lumen here or there )

No one reported that the 40S could out perform any XM-L or XM-L2 lamp or dazzle with it's output. What was reported was that many people ( including myself ) very much liked the warmer beam tint of the 40S and the fact that the beam pattern was very conducive for use as a bar lamp ( providing a wide beam pattern with limited throw ). Personally I'd rather use the BT40S than the old tri-clone even if the triclone was ( or is ) slightly brighter. The extra brightness / throw of the tri only counts for so much. The 1-2-3 led mode illumination of the tri-clones suck as does the UI. Not to mention that the bluish tint of the triclone I have is terrible, even when compared to other cool white lamps that I own.

Lamps with neutral LED's illuminate terrain very differently than other lamps that use cooler LED's. It could be you just don't like the effect of the warmer tint. It does take getting used to because at first glance it doesn't look as bright as other lamps because there is less glare. Still, in the tests that I've done it does throw beyond 100 ft. That said, most trails I ride have limited line-of-sight anyway so I find the lamp works well for me.

Anyway...Mayor, I'm sorry to hear that you don't like the 40S. Likely you would have been more pleased with the BT70 ( or BT21 ). Unfortunately, the BT70 with it's brighter / longer throw is not available right now. The BT40S is marketed as being a 1600 lumen lamp and FWIW I'm pretty sure it's likely more in the 1100-1300 lumen range.

BTW my BT40's do get hot if I'm not moving. Oh, you might want to check if all the LED's are working. Turn it on low and use a piece of paper as a filter so you don't blind yourself. Anyway, I hope Gearbest deals well with you. I have to get a refund from them myself so I'm in the same boat.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Thanks for your input, Cat
I do like the neutral color ( and hoping it's the color and not the fact that the light output is so low there's no glare)
I do like the spread.
I just wish there was more output.
I also let it sit on turbo and it's 70f here....it did get hot after 5 minutes.
I do have a BT21 on order from GB....who knows if I'll ever see it.
And I see you mention you had your Gloworm X2 changed to neutral?
How do you like it and how does it compare to the 40s?
Any other suggestions for a neutral bar light with good spread but more output?


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## canker (Jul 26, 2007)

Just had my second ride with my bt40 and 21 combo and I'm still fairly happy. I can see what mayor is saying though. The bt40 by itself isn't that impressive. It has a really nice beam pattern and lights up the trail really well in front of the bike but you need something else to handle throw which the bt21 is pretty good at. I'm coming from two of the cheap magicshine 808 clones one stock helmet and one with the diffuser lens for the bars and compared to those these have way nicer beam patterns and throw is pretty similar. 

btw I can't even really tell a difference between high and turbo on the bt40 but it is very noticeable on the bt21.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya difference from high to turbo isn't that much for some reason, they spaced the modes too close together there.

We've been hoping to see a better throwing optic for it....but with me doing my own custom lights and testing all kinds of options, its just not possible in that small of an optic. Well at least no company has figured out a way short of a laser beam anyway.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Thanks for your input, Cat
> I do like the neutral color ( and hoping it's the color and not the fact that the light output is so low there's no glare)
> I do like the spread.
> I just wish there was more output.
> ...


Sorry, I never did get around to getting a Gloworm switched over to neutral.


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

Just a bump to a previous post of mine, but can any one explain why im getting such awful runtimes (less than 30 mins) on my BT40s with a SolarStorm box with fully charged Samsung icr18650-26Fs? Cheers!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

midnight_rambler said:


> Just a bump to a previous post of mine, but can any one explain why im getting such awful runtimes (less than 30 mins) on a SolarStorm box with fully charged Samsung icr18650-26Fs? Cheers!


Please do not try to change the subject of the thread. There are other threads dealing with batteries...thank you. OP.


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

I mean im getting lousy runtimes with the SS box + samsungs on my BT40s, sorry I didnt put that in the post...thanks


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

midnight_rambler said:


> I mean im getting lousy runtimes with the SS box + samsungs on my BT40s, sorry I didnt put that in the post...thanks


Doesn't matter. Has nothing to do with Nitefighter. It's a off topic battery problem. Get with Ledoman, he'll help you.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

the mayor said:


> Thanks for your input, Cat
> I do like the neutral color ( and hoping it's the color and not the fact that the light output is so low there's no glare)
> I do like the spread.
> I just wish there was more output.
> ...


Glad to see you haven't given up on the BT21 yet. This light may be what your looking for. I just received one that I had on order for a loooong time so maybe there will be available ones to fill your order soon. I ran some light-meter tests last night to make sure the new one was operating correctly plus reran my old BT21 (Gloworm XS elliptical optics) and my BT40 for comparison.

LUX readings.......................bounce test.......center beam
BT40.......................................144....................26

New BT21
(stock optics)............................174...................50

Old BT21
(Gloworm XS elliptical optics)......184...................39

I don't normally include lux #'s not taken at the same time/test (battery, temperature, etc., can effect results slightly) but will include general results for the BT21 w/Gloworm XS spot's (bounce test - 200+, center beam mid 70's). Stock the BT21 has a wide enough beam to run on the bars but I wouldn't call it floody. If you want more flood the Gloworm elliptical's will give the BT21 a wider beam than the BT40 with more throw and more power. Hope this helps.
Mole


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

midnight_rambler said:


> I mean im getting lousy runtimes with the SS box + samsungs on my BT40s, sorry I didnt put that in the post...thanks





Cat-man-do said:


> Doesn't matter. Has nothing to do with Nitefighter. It's a off topic battery problem. Get with Ledoman, he'll help you.


Ok i'll ask elsewhere, sorry.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Midnight, theirs a thread about that case and its issues, ill try to find it.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> Sorry, I never did get around to getting a Gloworm switched over to neutral.


I had Jim change my X2 & XS to neutral, didn't see that much difference on the 1st rides of the fall, but now it really seems to be better, I'm even running on the first setting(low?).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not going to get an output boost from them, just you can see the trail more clearly since theirs now blinding glare. Need less light to see safely, which is a good thing!


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## Wire (Nov 2, 2015)

OK, fifth ride with BT40S (and some rides with Tri clone and KD duo in between). This lamp is not what I needed or wanted. Output still feels very low (I know, it's because of flood & tint). Maybe I'm riding too fast or my trails are not technical enough... but I don't need light with a throw limited to maybe 40 feet. Strangely, for me riding was best with the Tri on high (headlamp) and the BT40 on low (only as emergency light).

Just to be clear: I don't wanna be the troll here, this only my second post on the forum. I'm really thankful for all the reviews and info provided by you guys here, and I'm glad some are very happy with their BT40S. I'm not happy with it.

I'd like to sell it (lamphead only), anyone interested please PM. I paid 30,- EUR at GearBest, gonna give it away for 25,-. Expect fast delivery (compared to Gearbest...), at least within Europe.


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## Rex Block (Nov 6, 2015)

Hi all, just received a couple of BT40s from GB. Have not had a chance to mount them yet, but carrying them around in the hood, they look pretty solid. Love the form factor. 

Speaking of mounting, I am not a fan of the rubber ring method. I was looking for something else. Can anyone share other mounting methods? 

I notice that the rounded edge on the bottom bracket has a screw driven through it. I removed this screw and found that there is an opening in the bottom of the cylinder. The first thing that came to mind was something that mated with a quarter-inch camera mount. Has anyone put together something like that?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

See this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...apter-fins-additional-heatsinking-958312.html . Pick up one of these, mount it with the standard M4 screw (note: you may need to purchase a longer M4 screw locally). The camera mount type screw is 1/4-20 (i.e. it's different). Then pickup one of these: Portable Bike Aluminum Handlebar Mount with Hexagon Wrench-3.60 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com or this one: Bike Aluminum Handlebar Long Mount with Hexagon Wrench-4.77 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com . (These are available everywhere, Amazon, Ebay, etc. . .)

You may be able to use one of these in place of the custom mount (if you want to go super cheap). You just need to replace that 1/4-20 screw with your own M4 screw. Beware this mount is plastic though: CP-GP259 Bike Handlebar Mount Clamp-4.63 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

-Garry


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## Rex Block (Nov 6, 2015)

Awesome, thank you so much. I will post a video on the BT40S when it's up. 

I ride in urban settings, so lighting up a pitch-black trail at night is not a need for me. However, there lurk pedestrians and cars in the urban setting, so a see-and-be-seen philosophy is always paramount.


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

I've used my BT40s on a couple of commutes this week and the low setting is plenty for any urban/commute setting. I just make sure to point it down some so it's not in drivers eyes.


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## YoungDinosaur (Oct 24, 2015)

Wow, I ordered my BT40s from on 11/1 from GearBest, paid $11 for express shipping, and it arrived today on 11/6. I'm surprised at how legit everything looks. As others have mentioned, the o-ring handlebar mount looks a little weak so I'm going to order a custom mount from Vancbiker. Cant' wait to try it out.


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## Rex Block (Nov 6, 2015)

@YoungDinosaur, yea I am not a fan of the rubber rings. I did mount the '40 to a bar and shook it around like a bear trying to break open a trash can. I could feel it moving, but it didn't give. Still, it's new, so after a few months, I don't want to see it hanging from the bar. 

Did you order from GearBest? Took me about two weeks, but I am a cheap so-and-so, and didn't pay for express service.


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## YoungDinosaur (Oct 24, 2015)

@RexBlock glad to hear the o-rings aren't complete junk. I'll give them a shot for a month or so. And yes, I did order from GearBest.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Just finished charging up my custom 2S3P battery pack from the Xiaomi Power Banks. My modded BT40S is pulling 3.82A and holding fairly steady during my limited testing. I may still back the driver down a bit - undecided yet. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, hows the heat pushing the nichias that high on current?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Oh it's hot! Actually didn't run it that long, but I could feel the heat building up quickly. 

-Garry


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

I should be able to give my review of the BT40s BUT I'm still waitng on my lights from gearbest, ordered on the 9th of September. They offered a 50% refund and that's why I only use PayPal for online purchases. Either I get a new light ASAP or I will get my 100% refund through PayPal. 
Is nite fighter available through other retailers? I don't think GB is very honest IMO.


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

Swissam said:


> I should be able to give my review of the BT40s BUT I'm still waitng on my lights from gearbest, ordered on the 9th of September. They offered a 50% refund and that's why I only use PayPal for online purchases. Either I get a new light ASAP or I will get my 100% refund through PayPal.
> Is nite fighter available through other retailers? I don't think GB is very honest IMO.


Yes -
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/Details.S024182


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

HOLY %$#@!!! Got a rare chance to go into an underground stone mine at work today and so I decided to take my modded BT40S and new battery pack to test it out. WOW! First of all, there is *NOTHING* like going into an underground mine (or cave) away from all other sources of light and being surrounded by complete darkness! You feel like you don't even know if your eyes are actually open or not. From my past two experiences in this same mine I learned that a 1,000 lumen flashlight is barely enough when you want to light up a large area. (By the same token, a 30 lumen light can't be plenty to light up your general work area since your eyes are so adjusted.) Light just seems to be swallowed up by the dirt and stone (i.e. there's no reflection of light). I actually pulled our site "tour guide" (can't think what to call him - the young guy that took us to our destination wearing a +/- 150 lumen XR-E type miner's cap lamp) over and said, "Hey, you wanna see something that'll make you crap your pants?" Afterwards I then explained how I only have about $35 in that light to get that insane output.

(Click pics for larger versions. Also ignore traffic cone which only served for my partner to be able to see that location during his setup.)

Here's a pic of my BT40S on "Turbo" (+/- 3.8A):



I'll skip the other modes and just show you "Low":


Another random photo looking the other direction at my coworker using one of my headlamps to get setup to work through a doorway. 


Later on I took a photo using an aspheric flashlight (+/-1,000 lumens) lighting up that whole wall (slightly different angle but same area as above pic).



Sorry, don't want to derail the thread.

-Garry


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## SimonNI (Jan 12, 2015)

I need to know what you did.. lol

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It's all posted back a few pages. Emitters swapped to Nichia 219C's (optional), Driver modded to 4A calculated output (stacked two additional R200 current sense resistors, replaced the SS34 diode, and replaced the FET. 

-Garry


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

What's the expected run time for the BT40S on Turbo with 4 panasonic 3400mah batteries?
I did a night ride last night and kept my BT40s on Turbo. It ran for a few minutes with the indicator being green, then dropped down to blue and stayed there. About an hour after the light was run on Turbo the indicator changed to orange and red all of a sudden. After that if I dropped it down a few levels the light stayed blue but anything more than 2 or 3 clicks up would drop the indicator to orange. 
I thought I would have way more run time than that with the 3400mah batteries? Also, the weird thing is this morning I took the batteries out and put it in this case 
Amazon.com: 10400mAh LCD External Battery Power Bank 18650 Battery Charger Box with 2-Port 5A for iPhone 6 Plus 5S Galaxy S6 S5 Nexus 5 HTC One: Electronics
to charge each individual cell and 1 cell showed as full while the other 3 showed 1 bar down from full.
So I guess on my ride last night the voltage must of dropped too low but I'm wondering why? could it be because it was too cold out? The battery are in the kd2 clone battery box(metal) and in a frame bag on top of the top tube.
Any help would be appreciated. thanks


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

If batteries are left in the cold before use= runtime is lower

If cells arent balanced properly prior to putting in the case=runtime is lower

Relying on a cheap USB powerbank to properly charge your cells=good chance of eventually trashing your cells, long before they should be
Also if riding in the cold, make sure cells are inside and have at least overnight to come up to room temperature prior to charging.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

I usually just leave the battery in the case and charge via the wall wart thing that came with the light.
I think that power bank charges each cell individually? It shows each battery individually and I see it top off at different times. But, what's a good individual 18650 charger?

And back to the BT40s. The batteries are kept inside until I go ride and I charged them yesterday during the day. I was riding for about an hour with the battery pack inside the bag before turning on the light and it was in the 60s when I started my ride yesterday so I don't think it was that cold.


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## SimonNI (Jan 12, 2015)

This happened me on my first ride with them. But from the second on I've been doing 3 hour rides and just dropping into the blue. 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

One thing to remember is that the indicator lights are based off the voltage of the pack. Not sure what kd2 case your using (the yinding clone version or the mj880 clone version). The yinding clone version case is crappy imho. Especially if its the one that you plug the lighthead into the top of the case instead of it having its own wire. The mj880 clone version is pretty decent, but has a few short comings (which arent hard to fix with a soldering iron and 22awg silicone wire).

There is several things that can cause voltage sag that bad, but first run on a pack is always far shorter than any runs after.

I run Panasonics packs for all my lights, one is the bt70 stock pack and other is my modded mj880 clone case. Both packs I can run for a nice long time and never gone past "blue".

Also if that power bank charges individually, its not balancing the 4 cells, which is missing a key point (but I think im going to order one). Most dont balance cells anyway in all fairness. But to use in these cases you need to balance all the cells together, make sure all of the cells are able to freely slide up and down inside the case so springs can keep good contact at all times. Then you wont need to remove the cells to balance them again for a while.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> What's the expected run time for the BT40S on Turbo with 4 panasonic 3400mah batteries?
> I did a night ride last night and kept my BT40s on Turbo. It ran for a few minutes with the indicator being green, then dropped down to blue and stayed there. About an hour after the light was run on Turbo the indicator changed to orange and red all of a sudden. After that if I dropped it down a few levels the light stayed blue but anything more than 2 or 3 clicks up would drop the indicator to orange.
> I thought I would have way more run time than that with the 3400mah batteries? Also, the weird thing is this morning I took the batteries out and put it in this case
> Amazon.com: 10400mAh LCD External Battery Power Bank 18650 Battery Charger Box with 2-Port 5A for iPhone 6 Plus 5S Galaxy S6 S5 Nexus 5 HTC One: Electronics
> ...


Your question is a non-related Nitefighter question since you are using a non-standard battery set-up. The included battery that comes with the NF BT40S is a 5200mAh battery with BAK cells. This battery is giving most of the people who bought the kit very good run times. Since we don't know if your Panasonic cells are authentic or if your battery box is working properly...or even if the charger you have is working properly, the question you asked doesn't mean there is a problem with the lamp. Please ask questions pertaining to off topic batteries or battery boxes/chargers to another thread. There are plenty of threads having to do with batteries and battery holders/boxes. This thread is about the Nitefighter products only. Since your lamp appears to work the problem is the battery set-up you are using.

If you want to find out how long your battery set-up will run with the 40S you need to do an "in house" runtime test using a fan. Forget the indicators, do the test and run the lamp till the battery poops. Only then are you going to know how long the lamp ( with your battery set-up ) will run when on the highest setting.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I have tested Kaidomain battery pack with plug on its head (SKU S024040) and I've got 4125mAh at 2A load. Not that bad for the price at all. It is just the voltage curve is bit on the low side. So it's *not suitable for higher loads like BT40s on turbo*. This is also reason for the short timings and changing status leds soon. For some other lights that battery pack can be decent (for the price).

Here is discharge curve:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya that's the case I hate, connection at case is not very secure, works loose easily and end up with crap run times. I trashed that one, 880 clone case is FAR BETTER.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Keep in mind the "battery indicator" is run strictly based on voltage. Different cells can do different things with those indicators. For instance, you could have a pack that uses cells that have more voltage sag which may cause the indicator to drop to blue (or lower) earlier. The Panasonic 3400's don't have the greatest voltage curve, but in a 2S2P pack they should hold up to the BT40S (or even BT21) loads. The Panny 3400 is an "ok" cell, but there are better ones out there now. (Sorry Cat for the off-topic discussion.)

-Garry


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Thanks for all the info guys. Sorry for taking the thread off topic!


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat,

Did you ever get around to pairing the neutral white BT40s on the bars with the standard SS XT40 on the helmet? I've been running the XT40 on my helmet and loving it. Still looking for a more even beam pattern on the bars to replace my tri clone and the BT40s is looking like the answer. If anyone else has run this pairing I'd be interested in your thoughts as well. Thanks.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

We've been down that road already. Couple others tried it and they complained that bt40 didn't look as bright as tri-clone. Plus mixing light tints isn't a great idea either.


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## adagioca (Apr 28, 2004)

Hi steelhmr,

I'm running the setup your are asking about with a neutral white BT40s and a neutral white SS XT40. I've tried a bunch of combination and so far this is my favorite. I really wanted the smaller form factor and lighterweight bt21 to work on the helmet but I just love the XT40 solid throw.

For the record, I also have the bt70. It's not that I dont like it but I'm afraid it will consume my battery too quickly. Just too tempting to run it on turbo. And the stepping between the various modes just isn't as useful as the bt40s.

Now for the win, I ended up mounting both bt40s and bt70 last night. Really kicks ass. May be a little overkill but I have batteries to spare so why not!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

steelhmr said:


> Cat,
> 
> Did you ever get around to pairing the neutral white BT40s on the bars with the *standard SS XT40* on the helmet? I've been running the XT40 on my helmet and loving it. Still looking for a more even beam pattern on the bars to replace my tri clone and the BT40s is looking like the answer. If anyone else has run this pairing I'd be interested in your thoughts as well. Thanks.


I currently run the "neutral" version of the XT40 on the helmet but yes I'm sure I tried the "cool white" version before getting the neutral. It can work but the moment you aim the cool white light near the bike the effect of the neutral light off the bars is momentarily lost. My opinion is that it is better to stay with one tint ( for both lamps ).


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

If you have a tri clone(depending on which one you have)....you may be underwhelmed with the BT40.
The BT40 on turbo is dimmer than the tri clone on medium.


steelhmr said:


> Cat,
> 
> Did you ever get around to pairing the neutral white BT40s on the bars with the standard SS XT40 on the helmet? I've been running the XT40 on my helmet and loving it. Still looking for a more even beam pattern on the bars to replace my tri clone and the BT40s is looking like the answer. If anyone else has run this pairing I'd be interested in your thoughts as well. Thanks.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its not dimmer necessarily, it beam pattern and emitter tint. Bt40s uses optics (check out and read the Gemini 2016 lights thread, explains and shows tests that explain in detail what im saying) so the amount of light it puts out is spread wider, so less intense. Triclone uses a reflector making it a more intense and smaller area of.light.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> If you have a tri clone(depending on which one you have)....you may be underwhelmed with the BT40.
> *The BT40 on turbo is dimmer than the tri clone on medium*.


Well.....BT40 definitely doesn't have the throw of the tri-clone. Much of that has to do with the fact that the tri-clones use a triple reflector ( vs. quad optic for the BT40 ).

I won't argue over which is brighter since it's an apples to oranges comparison. I will only say that the tri-clones output is whiter ( cool white leds ) and has a little better distance throw. Beam pattern usable on every mode but not as smooth or evenly dispersed because of the 1-2-3 operation of the lamp and the tri-reflector itself. BT40S on the other hand has a nicer,smoother, evenly dispersed beam pattern and is very usable on every mode from 50 ft up to 125 ft. depending on mode and terrain. It is also "Neutral white" so very soft on the eyes even when on it's highest setting.

Of course if you prefer "Cool white " illumination over neutral that is a personal choice. Still, if I were to use "cool white" bar lamp over a neutral lamp I''d go with something like the Yinding or KD-2 Duo clone. Lamps with optics are just better off the bars IMO as they provide a more evenly dispersed beam pattern.

Yes, there are better lamps ( with more throw ) for the bars then the BT40S but for the money ( and the fact that it offers neutral LED's ) it's hard to beat...at least for the moment.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Different strokes for different folks.
Maybe different riding style in different terrain with different color dirt....the BT40 might be fine.
For me...and the 2 others I've run into around here....it's not.
And I picked up a KD2 neutral head.....for me, it's more usable than the BT40. Brighter and better throw.
Waiting to see the BT21....



Cat-man-do said:


> Well.....BT40 definitely doesn't have the throw of the tri-clone. Much of that has to do with the fact that the tri-clones use a triple reflector ( vs. quad optic for the BT40 ).
> 
> I won't argue over which is brighter since it's an apples to oranges comparison. I will only say that the tri-clones output is whiter ( cool white leds ) and has a little better distance throw. Beam pattern usable on every mode but not as smooth or evenly dispersed because of the 1-2-3 operation of the lamp and the tri-reflector itself. BT40S on the other hand has a nicer,smoother, evenly dispersed beam pattern and is very usable on every mode from 50 ft up to 125 ft. depending on mode and terrain. It is also "Neutral white" so very soft on the eyes even when on it's highest setting.
> 
> ...


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. My main complaint with the tri-clone is the super bright spot which throws off the rest of the light. I'd gladly sacrifice a little brightness for a more even beam pattern closer to the bike. I tried to get a diffuser lens for the tri clone but it ended up being the wrong size. Sigh.

The tri clone seems like it would be a good helmet light, but it's too heavy compared to the others I'm used to using.

But as per Cat's recommendation, I guess I'll have to pass on the BT40S since my other light is not of the neutral white variety.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That bright hot spot thing is what mayor can't get past so says bt40s is crap. Bt40s has alot of spill. Which means same amount of lumens being spread over a wider area.

Kd2 being brighter than bt40s is rather false. Can't get any more "incorrect". the kd2 just concentrates its lumens into a spot which means the spot is brighter and has more throw.

Its NOT a light issue, its a simple matter of some dont like THE BEAM PATTERN.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> That bright hot spot thing is what mayor can't get past so says bt40s is crap. has more throw.
> 
> I/QUOTE]
> There's 2 things I can't get past.
> ...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

the mayor said:


> tigris99 said:
> 
> 
> > That bright hot spot thing is what mayor can't get past so says bt40s is crap. has more throw.
> ...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> I also can't get past why you guys have such a man crush on it.
> But ...it's a free country. I'm sure folks get man crushes on toaster ovens.
> 
> It's a cheap light. A cheap light with a wide spread....that is also dim.
> No need to make excuses for it.


No man crushes here...The one I have works for me because I have other helmet lamps that can provide the throw I need. My Gloworm X2 though is a better all-around lamp for bar use but as of yet I haven't had it converted over to neutral tint.

When I get a chance I'll do a lux comparison of the tri-clone vs. some others. Lux comparisons though tend to favor throwers. Maybe I'll include a bounce test to even it up.

...a quicky bounce test showed tri-clone at 168 lux vs. BT40S at 174 lux. Actually not much difference. Tri-clone should win the throw test...need to get to work.


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

FWIW, i really wish there was a spottier 4x optic available for the BT40s. I think Nitefighter really need to modify the optics (in both models). The BT40s lights up 2m to my left and right which I really dont need, clearly reducing the intensity where i want it. Lack of throw is also significant (as with the 21). I dont want this to turn into "slate the BT40s", expectations and requirements are entirely subjective. Its certainly a useable light, built to a better standard than SolarStorm for example, but the truth is the beam pattern is far from perfect. If potential buyers find themselves here for feedback, i think its only fair to bring this up. Its a real shame, they have got it right for 95% of the unit, and the cheapest component is what lets it down!
Thinking about it, ive seen numerous other threads about lights being too spotty, with everyone trying to figure out how to diffuse the beam, just as NF owners are trying to tighten it. So NF certainly arent alone in missing the mark regarding beam pattern.
For the sake of $0.10, i dont see why they cant provide flood & spot optics with the light and let the user choose...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Problem isn't nitefighter, even the top optics companies can't make a tight spot that small. Requires larger optic diameter to tighten it up. There's science none of us fully understand but that's how it is. Ive hunted for custom work and nothing tighter exists unless you double the optics size.



Bt21 is an easy fix, plenty of optics to make it better which many of us have done. They do need to ditch the frosted optics though.

But this is why the best throwing lights are ones like magicashine 808 and clones. The reflector diameter. Bigger it is, tighter the spot becomes. But with now xp-l HI emitters coming out, will start seeing better throwing helmet lights available with only 20mm optics size (bt21 and yondings for example)


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, Tig is right. Diameter of optics/reflector defines beam angles. The other side of equatation is led dye size. Biger the the led (dye) size wider is beam. This is why it is hard to beat some low lumen leds like XR-E, XP-E when it comes to throw solely.

So small lens spread light more and BT40 has small lens if you look each of four separately.


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## Wire (Nov 2, 2015)

My BT40S draws 1.94 A on Turbo.
My Tri clone draws 1.98 on Medium, and 2.4 on high.

BT40S spreads light to places where I don't need and don't want bright light: To the left and to the right, and below my front wheel. Just like the Mayor I really can't understand the BT40S hype. It's a solid light, with nice tint and mediocre output. Unless a better optics is available (currently isn't) I would not recommend it to any serious biker.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Going on my first actual ride with my modded BT40S on my bars and BT21 on my helmet. I calculated the output on Turbo (on mine @ 3.8A) based on testing done at BLF @2,600 lumens - 20% losses (a conservative estimate I believe) for 2,080 lumens out the front. I only intend to use Turbo for showing off  . Love the fact that my $60 investment (custom battery pack & lighthead) will annialate $300+ systems!

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Are you are going to use "Xiaomi based" cells pack? It should give enough power. Some pictures would be nice to show differences to the other one on your trails. Specialy color rendering interests me when using two different lights side by side.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, my Xiaomi based pack is the only one that can power it that high on Turbo. Don't know that I'll have time to mess with pics with the group. I did post "backyard" beamshot comparisons (at least over in my BLF Bike Lights Thread). 

I'll see if I can at least get cell phone pics during the ride. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

No problem if you can't. It is just bit different when you compare side by side on the same picture. I'm having "business" with sample pack from KD tonight


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Wire said:


> ........BT40S spreads light to places where I don't need and don't want bright light: To the left and to the right, and below my front wheel. Just like the Mayor I really can't understand the BT40S hype. It's a solid light, with nice tint and mediocre output. Unless a better optics is available (currently isn't) I would not recommend it to any serious biker.


Beam type is very much a personal preference. There seems to be a lot of riders that want a wide spread of light. For those users, and some of them could be serious bikers, something like the BT40S might be desirable.

I find a tighter beam far preferable. I want light where I'm going, not off to the sides of the bike. I almost never look at the ground close to the front wheel, so no need for the bar light to put light there either.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

This is why I like the light myself. I dont have line of site. Has nothing to do with serious riders or not, has to do with trail type. I ride with people that are just as serious riders as any pro riders and some ride with nothing more than a nightrider 750 on the bars or the lid, one light. I know others that have found these threads, my videos, (and have seen me use the lights on the trails) that ordered them for themselves. Line of site isn't there and we need illumination in close too. Here in the mid west everything is tight, densely wooded, twisty single track.



Out in the mountains, desert, etc where you can ride faster and more open space, ya you can out run the bt40 easily. Here not really.

Oh and current draw from the pack for the light means little for light output. A triclone uses old tech emitters and only 3 in parallel at what, 1.25A each. Bt40s runs 4 at 900mA with new version emitters. So it puts out more light than triclones. More emitters will produce more light with less wattage requirement from batteries. Just the bt40 spreads its output out alot.


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## Wire (Nov 2, 2015)

@tigris and @vancbike: I have re-read what I wrote, and what you wrote, and I think you are right. It's not about being a serious biker (I ain't). It's about different trails, different riders, different needs for light.

At least the BT40S helped me to find out what I need on my rides: Throw, more THROW, and maybe just a little spill too....


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

...^^^....Yes, BT40S spreads the light out a bit but it's not just a massive flood lamp. It's more of a "wide spot" that begins to dissipate beyond 100 ft. ( on Boost ). 

Where I ride I see lots of trails not only with shorter lines of sight but with lots of debris and technical trail features. At night I have to keep my speed in check because of these features. Having a bit more light to the left and right helps because I'm always dodging and moving around stuff. Now I do ride places occasionally with some faster straightaways but I found over the years that having great throw is not everything. This is one of the reasons why I've switched from dedicated throwers on the helmet to lamps that offer good throw ( 150 ft ) but with a wider beam pattern. It seems the wider beam pattern is more useful especially on some of the more high speed debris strewn trails that I ride. The only advantage I see to using a lamp on the bars with more throw than the 40S is that on occasion both the bar and helmet lamp will point in the same direction. In those instances the beam patterns will become additive and let you see a little farther. 

That said in my case I rarely need super distance throw. Yeah it's nice to have but in my case most of the time I have more need for seeing things when I'm juking around rutted, rock strewn turns. On trails like that the BT40S is in it's element.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Don't want to head off-topic, but want to chime back in to say I won't be posting any pics from any rides tonight. Work screwed me out of attending the club ride! Argh!

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Don't want to head off-topic, but want to chime back in to say I won't be posting any pics from any rides tonight. Work screwed me out of attending the club ride! Argh!
> 
> -Garry


It's all good Gary. Right now sitting in my work vehicle looking at that full moon and wishing I was riding right now. More than likely you wouldn't have been able to take a lot of team shot photos anyway because the moon is so bright right now you can almost see without any lights.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Dont feel bad, I probably wont be able to get back on my bike till next week. Going to Missouri tomorrow for the holiday weekend, supposed to rain the entire weekend.... But only rain here till early Friday...second time this year I got screwed by weather when we go down. Go down about 5 times a yr, rideable times 4, but elbow surgery screwed first 2. Next year better be better, got some killer trails around st Louis.


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## shenvatele (Sep 28, 2011)

Has anyone had luck with CS from Gearbest? The mount for my light broke after its first use (the tiny screw stripped out). Unfortunately, I was just outside of the 45 day return period. It's been over 10 days since I first opened a support ticket with Gearbest and haven't gotten any response from them.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

For the mount you wont get warranty, that's a "wear item" basically. A replacement mount can be had cheaply (and alot more easily) from action-led-lights.com or can upgrade to aluminum one at dx.com, or go gopro mount.


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## shenvatele (Sep 28, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> For the mount you wont get warranty, that's a "wear item" basically. A replacement mount can be had cheaply (and alot more easily) from action-led-lights.com or can upgrade to aluminum one at dx.com, or go gopro mount.


Unfortunately, the threads in the body of the light that hold the tiny screw for the mount stripped out so a replacement mount wouldn't do me any good.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Find someone with a #8-32 tap, it's a bit bigger than the stock M4 thread, and re-thread the hole and replace the screw with a #8-32 screw. You might have to open up the hole in your mount to fit the #8 screw.


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## shenvatele (Sep 28, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> Find someone with a #8-32 tap, it's a bit bigger than the stock M4 thread, and re-thread the hole and replace the screw with a #8-32 screw. You might have to open up the hole in your mount to fit the #8 screw.


Great suggestion, thanks!


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Easier to unscrew the bezel, peel off the LED board, put a nut inside the shell and resecure the mount with the original M4 screw.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Iirc you have to go in via driver side, but im gonna pop mine apart and double check for him

Update, ya try that trick, but you have to go in from the back side, not the emitter side.


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## trekcarbonboy (Mar 3, 2008)

I decided to run one of my BT40s' on turbo the whole ride last time out. (temp's in the upper 30's so no heat issue) It was only a 2 hour ride and the battery lasted no problem. The problem I had though is that within an hour the battery indicator was on red. I couldn't recall seeing it go to blue either (maybe it did). It seemed to go straight from green to amber then red. I really didn't think it was going to last another hour on red. It never did start blinking. 

It would seem that the battery life indicator is unreliable. Has anyone else had this experience?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Were you using its stock battery or a different one?

These indicators work, but nitefighters indicators are badly calibrated. Overly sensitive I figure would be the term.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It is also temperature dependant. Where did you have your battery pack during the ride? Can't find any graph about it right now, but I advise you to read:
BU-502: Discharging at High and Low Temperatures - Battery University


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> It is also temperature dependant. Where did you have your battery pack during the ride? Can't find any graph about it right now, but I advise you to read:
> BU-502: Discharging at High and Low Temperatures - Battery University


Thanks for the link. Discharge @ high temps. is my issue and explains why my batteries seem to have a shorter lifespan than average.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mole, your not the only one, summer heat isn't so much my problem, its the cold that's going to shorten my pack life spans. But fat bike in the snow is SO MUCH FUN lol.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

trekcarbonboy said:


> I decided to run one of my BT40s' on turbo the whole ride last time out. (temp's in the upper 30's so no heat issue) It was only a 2 hour ride and the battery lasted no problem. The problem I had though is that within an hour the battery indicator was on red. I couldn't recall seeing it go to blue either (maybe it did). It seemed to go straight from green to amber then red. I really didn't think it was going to last another hour on red. It never did start blinking.
> 
> It would seem that the battery life indicator is unreliable. Has anyone else had this experience?


This is a phenomenon that occurs when batteries get cold. When batteries get cold this increases their internal resistance. This brings about a larger ( internal ) voltage drop which the voltage indicators on the lamp head pick-up, especially when you run the lamp on turbo which brings about the largest series of voltage drops. Almost all lamps with voltage indicators do this.

This really isn't a problem until the voltage drops reach the cut-off stage, in which case the lamp may cut off power prematurely. The only way to prevent this in cold weather is to either keep the battery warm ( not easy to do ), run the lamp at lower output levels or use a battery with a higher capacity.

Anyway, nothing is wrong with your lamp or battery. Feel sorry for people who are using single cell or smaller batteries in cold weather. They have a bigger problem than you.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Article mentions keeping batteries warm inside [jeans] pockets before use. Wondering, has anybody tried wrapping a cell pack in layers of neoprene or some simialr kind of thinsulation when attaching to the bike frame? Haven't tried that myself yet, but in the summer used to carry around bottles of slushies stuffed into extraneous knee supports. Worked as an insulator almost as well as the Thermos I later bought, beverages would stay semi-frozen from mid morning through late afternoon. If batteries do generate a little heat under load, than maybe enough warmth could be retained to prevent severe degradation, with the right materials surrounding the pouch. Time to experiment!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Article mentions keeping batteries warm inside [jeans] pockets before use. Wondering, has anybody tried wrapping a cell pack in layers of neoprene or some simialr kind of thinsulation when attaching to the bike frame? Haven't tried that myself yet, but in the summer used to carry around bottles of slushies stuffed into extraneous knee supports. Worked as an insulator almost as well as the Thermos I later bought, beverages would stay semi-frozen from mid morning through late afternoon. If batteries do generate a little heat under load, than maybe enough warmth could be retained to prevent severe degradation, with the right materials surrounding the pouch. Time to experiment!


Maybe I can save you some time; I tried almost everything ( years ago ) in an attempt to keep my batteries warm in cold weather....insulated pouches...battery wrapped in foam...chemical hand warmers ( not warm enough)...almost nothing seemed to work.

Part of the problem lies in that the battery pouch ( for the bars ) gets mounted to a ice cold metal frame. Add to that the power cord itself ( which connects to the battery ) slowly draws out the heat as well. Best thing you can do is to slow the heat loss. Wrap the battery in some thin packing foam and perhaps wrap the power cord with some foam tape. Keep the battery in a warm place before going for your ride and don't mount it to the frame until you need to. If you're lucky you might go for 45 minutes before the cold begins to effect the internal resistance of the battery.

Last but not least I did find a way to keep the battery warm but the method is dangerous. I used a butane handwarmer along with some light insulation and a slightly larger battery bag to house the set-up. I tested it on my balcony in 10°F weather using digital thermometers to monitor the temperature next to the battery ( on both sides ) ( Only one handwarmer used ). The result; battery stayed around 60°F the whole time ( 2hrs ). The downside to doing this is getting everything set-up is a PITA and of course it is dangerous so you have to be sure not to overheat the battery. That said I don't think I'd do this on a ride unless I was riding in temps below 30°F.

I don't ride a whole lot in the cold anymore but if I did I'll probably just use the "wrapped in foam / delay mounting", technique and / or use a bigger battery. Of course if Santa brings me a new set of studded snow tires I might just have to do some winter mountain biking this year.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

IMHO, insulating and especially heating of standard battery is unnecessary hassle. If you need winter setup - just switch to other types of battery chemistry not sensitive to the freezing as much as LiCo cells, or use extra-capacity ones, to have enough energy available in the cold state...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Im with Archie. Simple fix in this case, order one of the 4cell Panasonic packs available at gearbest or kaidomain. That's an extra 1600mah to offset the loss due to the cold and keep a good long run time. I also would expect xeccon neoprene pouches to be of some help too.

Oh and as said, DONT leave the battery in the cold. Keep it warm till your ready to use it.



Cold doesn't kill li-ion batteries. Will shorten life span a bit but at least for me, my cells will die of old age first (have several packs/cells). What ruins li-ion cells with the cold, TRYING TO CHARGE WHILE COLD. That's a huge no no. Pack needs a few hours to fully acclimate to room temperature before plugging into charger.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well problem for me is I can be out over 6 hours on my bike some days, have no way of protecting packs other than keeping them on my person before heading back home around dark which could take close three hours. Which is why I'd be interested in flat 2S2P packs from KD that ledoman is working on. Already have the BAK packs that came with my MS and Nitefighter lights, as well as a couple SS cases with 3400mAh Pannies. But can't comfortably keep these square packs warm inside my clothes. OTOH havent had a pack fail me yet before getting home but have always compulsively conserved power, kinda defeating the purpose of having such powerful lamps in the first place. Would like to know I can run a couple lights at least on second highest settings through my entire journey regardless of temperature. Though could probably get by with just the BT40S and keeping a secondary battery pack as a backup, just have to hit the brakes occasionally so as not to outrun the beam.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about using bt40 or yinding on high. with Panasonic cells. Talking 4hrs run time easily on bt40s 3 hours on the yinding no problem


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Well problem for me is I can be out over 6 hours on my bike some days, have no way of protecting packs other than keeping them on my person before heading back home around dark which could take close three hours. Which is why I'd be interested in flat 2S2P packs from KD that ledoman is working on. Already have the BAK packs that came with my MS and Nitefighter lights, as well as a couple SS cases with 3400mAh Pannies. But can't comfortably keep these square packs warm inside my clothes. OTOH havent had a pack fail me yet before getting home but have always compulsively conserved power, kinda defeating the purpose of having such powerful lamps in the first place. Would like to know I can run a couple lights at least on second highest settings through my entire journey regardless of temperature. Though could probably get by with just the BT40S and keeping a secondary battery pack as a backup, just have to hit the brakes occasionally so as not to outrun the beam.


In cold weather you do what you have to do. If you're doing 3hr night rides in the cold you should perhaps use a good 6-cell battery for your lamp on the bars...just to be on the safe side. Of course your idea of a second back-up battery is a good idea too.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> I wouldn't worry about using bt40 or yinding on high. with Panasonic cells. Talking 4hrs run time easily on bt40s 3 hours on the yinding no problem


In the cold, not just in optimal circumstances? I've always been impressed with the runtimes I get on the 5200mAh BAK pack that came with my BT40S, but I've only had that setup since around Easter, so haven't put it to the test in winter but already noticed the indicator light is dropping down much more suddenly then before. Yeah I understand the four colors don't reflect the true state of charge even under the best of circumstances but it is unnerving not to know whether there is enough juice left when ten miles from home and it's pitch dark.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> In cold weather you do what you have to do. If you're doing 3hr night rides in the cold you should perhaps use a good 6-cell battery for your lamp on the bars...just to be on the safe side. Of course your idea of a second back-up battery is a good idea too.


My second best idea was to do an impersonation of Uncle Fester as a drug mule, swallowing the cell pack whole with the cable running up my throat to the light head shining out of my mouth. Not only would this keep the setup warm and prevent my lips from freezing, but I'd have the brightest smile in the Hudson Valley. Gulp! Gurgle gurgle gaw ugh... Ptui! Well now that idea didn't work out so hot, guess I'll just go with the 8-pack from KD.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Last night I finally made it out on another club night ride. I ran my modded BT40S (Nichia 219C's and 4A driver) on the bars using my custom 2S3P Xiaomi battery pack and my BT21 (LEDDNA 10º optics) on my helmet with the 2-cell Fenix case (using 2 LG MJ1 18650s). I found "medium" to be plenty of light for my needs last night (twisty log-ridden trails in dense dark forest). Now "medium" on my BT40S draws 1.80A, so that is about equivalent to the stock BT40S. I do agree that the BT40S really needs to have it's output boosted at least a tad. It was nice that I could kick it up a notch or two higher if/when needed. The BT21 on high or Turbo was great! Nearly perfect beam pattern for helmet use. Tints blended well too. After two hours of riding I still had plenty of battery left for both lights (though the Xiaomi pack drained down further than I expected it should have, perhaps it needs a few cycles yet). All in all I think it's a near perfect combo. And if you can add a sense resistor on the BT40S driver it's even better for you! 

(Sorry, no pics.) 

EDIT - sorry, I was mistaken. My Xiaomi pack isn't nearly as bad as I first thought. Pack @ 7.70v (3.85v per cell) after the ride and after resting. That's after almost 2.5hrs of 1.80A draw. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yup, with your xiaomi pack you should have at least another 2.5h of runtime (over my thumb) and even more left for lower current modes after that.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Lights with an hour of run-time are fine for people who commute and just want a light to get home from work, but not what I am looking for.

My last night ride was 2 hours of light time, so I look for lights with 2.5 hours or more of run time on high, to account for cold and the battery wearing down after many cycles. And then if I want to ride longer, I don't need to use high. Six cells appeals to me even though four is probably enough all of the time, and certainly enough most of the time.


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

I've been using my BT40S both commuting and MTB these last few weeks. My commute is usually 20-25 minutes each way every weekday. I run it on low which is more than adequate for me in any road/commuting scenerio. Twice on the last two weekends we ended out on the trails late in the afternoon to where it got dark and needed the light for the final descent. Since these are steep and fast scenarios and turbo mode was used for around 15 minutes each time. I think in total i've charged the stock battery up once within the last two weeks and i'm currently still on orange.

I think for a regular commuter anything with an hour of run time only would be a PITA. Charging everytime you get to your destination sucks. One of my Serfas tail lights is only good for about an 1.5 hrs and feels like i'm constantly having to stay on top of charging it.

Just got a call last night that my BT21 had come in. I'll pick it up tomorrow and try my commutes with that vs the BT40. My guess though is that the BT40 will end up my regular commuter light and both the BT40 and BT21 will only be used together on planned night rides.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Big Fil said:


> I...Just got a call last night that my BT21 had come in. I'll pick it up tomorrow and try my commutes with that vs the BT40. My guess though is that the BT40 will end up my regular commuter light and both the BT40 and BT21 will only be used together on planned night rides.


BF, I think you'll find that the BT21 makes the better commuter road lamp. While the low mode on the BT21 is kind of useless for single track MTB use it comes in handle for use on roads and/or paved trails. Always nice to have a super low mode for those times when you either don't need a lot of light or when on heavily used commuter paved trails. I'll also highly recommend switching out at least one of the optics on the stock BT21 for one with a more narrow spot.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> ......Always nice to have a super low mode for those times when you either don't need a lot of light


Absolutely needed on a helmet light IMO. Try fixing a flat or better yet, read your map/compass with a too bright helmet light. Too much glare. You have to point your head one direction and look to the other so you are working in the spill light. PITA.


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

Oh yeah for sure on the optics change. I already have some 10 degree optics here waiting for the light. That said I'm gonna run it with stock optics on the trails at least once so I can compare the differences before and after.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> Absolutely needed on a helmet light IMO. Try fixing a flat or better yet, read your map/compass with a too bright helmet light. Too much glare. You have to point your head one direction and look to the other so you are working in the spill light. PITA.


*Yeah but 99% of the time you have to skip over the super-low mode when riding so IMO that's more a PITA if you tend to change modes a lot... which I do.. ( *BT21 has four steady modes ).

Not worried about using the helmet lamp for reading or fixing a mechanical. I have a mini single-AA pocket LED torch for that. I carry it with me at all times. You are right though. The low mode on the BT21 perfect for working on something very close.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I used to carry an EDC with me every time I went out as well. But then I realized its SO MUCH EASIER to use my helmet light, because im not trying to hold a round aluminum tube in my mouth to do anything (no wise cracks  ).

One day bike light makers will discover what was made over at BLF and the custom driver my one bt21 has uses for firmware. 1 button but I dont have to cycle all through modes, just go up or down one at a time at will  Life is so much easier that way.


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## KgB (Jan 13, 2004)

deleted


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> *Yeah but 99% of the time you have to skip over the super-low mode when riding so IMO that's more a PITA if you tend to change modes a lot... which I do.. ( *BT21 has four steady modes ).


Yes, I should have mentioned that the lights I use have the super low setting "hidden" from the normal use levels. I would consider any system that requires the user to cycle through a super low or strobe setting as part of the mode cycle to be a failure of a UI design.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

In fairness though, drivers with the good UI can cost as much as these Chinese lightheads . Ituo is the first "inexpensive" light I've seen that has that option.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> In fairness though, drivers with the good UI can cost as much as these Chinese lightheads


Ya get what ya pay for. Really, I don't believe that having a rational UI adds cost beyond the firmware development. I think the cheap lights have poor a UI because the folks designing/spec'ing them have no clue how it really should best operate.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh I totally agree. That's why nitefighter and KD one upped all that. Then you get to ituo, gets good. Above that we have the desired uis


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> Yes, I should have mentioned that the lights I use have the super low setting "hidden" from the normal use levels. I would consider any system that requires the user to cycle through a super low or strobe setting as part of the mode cycle to be a failure of a UI design.


Yep, Gloworms are the same way. I can deal with cycling through three modes as long as all are useful. The SStorm XT40 I use on the helmet does have the off mode in the cycle of modes ( making four ) but that doesn't bother me because...well, I turn the light off a lot when not needed so in my case I like it. The XT40 I sometimes use on my helmet is too bright for close in work anyway even when on low. Even if it had a hidden low mode it still wouldn't help because the lamp still wouldn't be able to be adjusted straight down without the helmet itself getting in the way.

No, I prefer not to use the power to my riding lamps for repairs anyway. The torch I carry is super small and has a clip. If I want I can clip it to the visor and aim it straight down where I'm working. It also has 4-levels of light, very useful. Not to mention in a pinch I could also mount it to the bars if I needed an emergency bar lamp...but usually I have a larger 18650 torch on the bars that already serves that purpose. Nope, that little AA torch goes everywhere with me. Never know when a Mega solar flare is going to happen and crash the world wide power grid and you're inside some building somewhere in the middle of the night without a power source. ( Boy scouts taught me well when I was a kid.  )

Remember in the movie, "Silence of the Lambs" when agent Starling goes into Wild Bill's basement and Bill cuts the power and all goes dark. Well if Starling had my mini torch she'd of whipped it out and Bill would of been dead meat in a matter of seconds. Of course that was just a movie. I'm sure the real FBI agents carry a small torch at all times.


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## HDsilakka (Nov 22, 2015)

Bt40s Kit test:

8.26V 0.37A
8.20V 0.81A
8.14V 1.24A
8.08V 1.68A


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HDsilakka said:


> Bt40s Kit test:
> 
> 8.26V 0.37A
> 8.20V 0.81A
> ...


Interesting. It amazes me that for the little current the BT40S uses _on low_ it still puts out a good amount of light. As low modes go it has one of the better ( if not the best ) outputs on low of any other non-programmable lamps that I own ( except for my SStorm XT40 which has 4 XM-L2's and is probably about 400 lumen on low )


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

Can anyone recommend a battery? My wife got me a BT40S for Christmas but it didn't come with a battery. Not looking to break the bank, just a nice reliable battery. 

Thanks


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Action-led-lights.com if you want in the states otherwise there's a recent thread about good Panasonic ncr18650 series packs available.


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## zerafael (Nov 25, 2015)

I have receive recently my BT40s Kit.

Is it normal once it is fully charged it turning from green to blue after a minute using turbo?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Depends on battery voltage sag & resistence in connectors & current pulled on Turbo. The battery indicator is strictly driven by battery voltage (not capacity - and this is normal for most all lights) I don't have the stock battery so I can't say for certain but I think it's possible. I think using a 2 cell Fenix case it'll drop quickly to yellow. 

Someone with a stock battery should speak up though.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes it does that, only time it doesn't turn blue in a couple minutes is with my custom low resistance packs on Panasonic cells. Dont worry about it, will be blue for a long time then yellow for a bit before you even have to worry. I prefer the blue anyway, not as bright to me lol.


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## zerafael (Nov 25, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. I was worried that the charger wasn't working properly.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Measure the voltage of the charger and you'll know.


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## zerafael (Nov 25, 2015)

I have done a test on Turbo and it lasted 3Hours and 17minutes. Since nitefighter says 3Hours on Turbo it is very good.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I received my Revtronic BT40S from Amazon. Night ride last night, light performed great. Seems slightly under gunned in output but overall, $42 well spent. Much prefer the BT40 to the MAGICSHINE MJ906, which is being returned.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Welcome to the forum! It's not too tough to boost output (up to 3A draw) if you have the DIY skill. Unscrew the back driver compartment, stack a sense resistor or two with a soldering iron & solder, and put back together. We can help if your game.

My post 454 onward shows the driver. NOTE: I went to 4A so mine required additional component replacements. I also swapped the LED emitters, but that's not needed.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...-bt40s-cat-review-963636-19.html#post12270169

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya a few have said "under powered" but its the beam pattern. Its major increase in lumen requirements to make the same wide area look as bright as something with a tight, spot like beam.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

It does give a pretty wide swath of light.
It's amazing what these class of lights provide for the price point. I wrongly figured I would get what I paid for with a more expensive kit.....WRONG!! 
As far as modding, I'm a plug and play type but it's cool seeing how forum members kick em up! Great forum and learning a ton.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I am surprised you like it over the 906 only because the 906 produces about twice the light.

I wonder if your "preference" is because your like more and more of us, hate cool white lights.

Thing is you still get more for paying more. The bt40s is severely lacking warranty support in the case something goes wrong where as magicshine and most others have a US based vendor with full warranty support.

Dont get me wrong, the bt40s is an AWESOME light for what you pay. And a proven light thus far. And I don't like magicshine lights. But there is benefits of them over the cheaper Chinese lights. Bt40s is a step above those cheap lights (in some cases 10 steps above). But there is usually things to gain at higher price points if those things matter to you.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

The MJ906 screams quality. It's a nice light. But as a trucker, I'm hypersensitive to beam tint. 2x the light? Doubtful in usable aspects. The BT21 is the one light I wish I got the 1st batch of. It's got the dreaded switch issues.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> The MJ906 screams quality. It's a nice light. But as a trucker, I'm hypersensitive to beam tint. 2x the light? Doubtful in usable aspects. The BT21 is the one light I wish I got the 1st batch of. It's got the dreaded switch issues.


You should be able to return the light if it's faulty. New version of the BT21 is due out in the next few weeks. Use your refund/credit towards the BT21 "S" version. 
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Or just grab a referb GW XS. You already have a battery pack from the bt21.

Yeap I cheated, had to have one in my collection and at $60...


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I'm on it Tig, I got a lot out of the bt21 and I ain't nit picky bout the switch. Turbo never steps down, cold as heck. But that light is nice. It basically opened up nightshift riding and I'm so pressed for time. If my gloworm x2 on order is as nice, with quality switch in place, I'm golden. NW option $25? Heck yeah.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Or just grab a referb GW XS. You already have a battery pack from the bt21.
> 
> Yeap I cheated, had to have one in my collection and at $60...


Those refurbished X1 & X2 light-heads are a great deals especially considering you get a 2 yr. warranty with them (and you needed more GW optics anyway). Great quality but out-performed by the BT21 for those of us who live in warm climates.

"Have you by any chance herd anything on the BT21S yet"?

Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I'm on it. I ordered a nw x2. I used the bt21 a lot. It's still a nice light. If the gloworm is equal in BEAM quality, I'm happy. The gripe is switch related only. I tend to leave them. I can barely grab the correct gear, unlike the shift and grab another mode on the light peeps!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nada yet on bt21s. Ill check when they get back.

And ya I know I have better lights in the heat and such. But had been wanting a gloworm for a while. So couldn't pass it up, even if its hardly used.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Nada yet on bt21s. Ill check when they get back.


Thanks for the update. They better hurry cause I need a new light to go with the new fat-bike I think I bought today. Dealer availability only showed 1 left but they ordered it while I was standing there so I'm hopeful.

Back to topic - It would be nice if Nitefighter would upgrade the BT40s also. A couple of hundred extra lumens would broaden the range of usefulness on this light greatly IMO. One of my cooler running lights so I know the light-head could handle a little extra heat and wouldn't so easily be overpowered by a BT21 on the helmet.
Mole


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

All of my LBS-bought, brand name lights are slowly dying after a few years, I'm sick of spending that kind of money on lights. For me, most last about two years and either the battery dies, I manage to smash the light or something else breaks. I'm jumping into the cheap end of the market head first.

I invested in the Revtronic BT40s kit for $60 shipped off of Amazon. I also bought the Revtronic F30B flashlight ($26 shipped) and two Outlite 3600Mah 18650s with a charger ($16 shipped) as a backup light. I'll run them both on the bars.

We'll see how this goes... For ~$100 all said and done, I figured I could experiment.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

That's the joy of the Chinese lights - cheap enough to try out and see what you like. When they die, trash 'em and move on. Go too cheap and your just dealing with crap. The Revtronic should suit you, unless you take issue with output/beam pattern. 

-Garry


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

hiro11 said:


> Outlite 3600Mah 18650s with a charger ($16 shipped) as a backup light.


"Outlite" cells !!! never heard of those, renamed UltrFire junk!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Oh, yeah. Thought he might have mistyped Olight! Yeah, get rid of those crap cells ASAP!!! Charger is likely dangerous crap too! If in the US, see Mountain Electronics. He's a BLF forum member who doesn't sell crap, and doesn't have ridiculous markup. .

-Garry


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Oh, yeah. Thought he might have mistyped Olight! Yeah, get rid of those crap cells ASAP!!! Charger is likely dangerous crap too! If in the US, see Mountain Electronics. He's a BLF forum member who doesn't sell crap, and doesn't have ridiculous markup. .
> 
> -Garry


Fair enough. Cancelled that order. Any other 18650 cells worth getting?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I would stay away from Amazon on the cells just because of the risk of getting fakes. Stick with name brands: Panasonic/Sanyo (Panasonic owns Sanyo - at least their battery division), Samsung, & LG. The Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh is a big favorite among many and price has dropped on them. My personal favorite is the LG 18650MJ1 3500mAh. 

Gotta watch some flashlights won't work with some long protected cells (the NCR18650B is one that is longer than most). Can usually search reviews of that light to see what fits/doesn't fit. Xtar chargers are tops. Genuine Nitecore's are ok, but slow. MANY cheap chargers do not charge with a proper charging algorithm. 

Sorry for the off-topic discussion. 

-Garry


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I ordered 18650s from Amazon and paid big for rebranded panasonics. Little did I know.... I see the BT40 is no longer being sold by Revtronic on Amazon. Maybe they are updating the BT40 and the BT21! Or maybe they are just done....?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I've bought cells off Amazon no problem. Read the reviews is all you need to do, will tell if they are fake or not.

And rebranded Panasonic's I'm guessing you mean protected. Most protected cells are done by other companies so it's all real, it's just how it goes.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> I see the BT40 is no longer being sold by Revtronic on Amazon. Maybe they are updating the BT40 and the BT21! Or maybe they are just done....?


I just bought the BT40s from Amazon on Monday, Prime eligible. I think it's likely that they simply ran out of stock.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Hiro11, u may have gotten the last BT40 produced! Revtronic doesn't list the light on their website now. i hope I'm mistaken cause I think the BT40 is a decent light for the price. Amazon is listing a used 3rd party BT40 now and that's it.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Well that used one does say "the screen is in good condition"!  .

BTW - Yes I forget to mention protected Panasonics have the protection placed by other companies AND that many times other brands are actually rebranded Panasonics. LG's etc. . . (like Fenix cells or Olight). I only said stay away from Amazon for the sake of "non-enthusiasts" getting duped into buying fakes or being misled. If you're certain they are real, by all means buy there. One thing I've learned from Amazon is that if you want to be guaranteed you are getting the exact model your looking for, don't buy from Amazon! Or purchase through a well-reviewed 3rd party Amazon seller after you inquire and verify the model they are selling. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Amazon has one easy perk though, easy returns. And they won't play games with third parties that have them fullfil orders of fake products. Seen a few get kicked off Amazon for pulling that crap.

But I do buy my cells from Richard at Mtnelectronics.com now as his prices are lower, don't have to even do the extra reading to know if the cells are legit, has the "latest and greatest" cells. Like Garry, I buy a lot of other stuff there too cause it's easy and Richard is awesome.

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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

(Continuing the O.T. discussion)

Another big plus about buying from Mtn Electronics is that his cells are made with top quality protection circuits. Not all protection circuits are equal. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh ya, that too. I've had the other protected cells, ripped the protection off. I won't buy protected cells except from him.

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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

This light may or may not still be available, but here's my impressions:

I've used the BT40s twice now on fairly long dark rides. Initial reaction: this is a tight little light. The build is in general solid. The lighthead is nicely machined and finished and the standard Magicshine-style mount seems to work well. Two minor complaints: the two way switch isn't as positive as I'd like (it works fine, though) and the case for the battery is a bit chintzy. The multi-color indicator light is indeed bright but on the bars the lighthead is well out of my field of vision so it doesn't bother me. I personally don't buy the 1,600lm rating, my light might output 1,200-1,300 on high. Still, that's plenty of light. Also on the upside, the light's color temperature is much warmer than many other lights I've used making for a much more pleasant look to the light. The beam pattern is a good balance of spot/flood with the standard optics but a bit too diffuse with the flood optics. The battery life is impressive, I got 90 minutes out of the battery on about a medium setting (maybe 700-800lm output) before the indicator life changed to blue from green. Blue indicates 50-75% left in the battery, that's plenty of life. Overall, this light seems like $60 (with shipping) well spent for the kit, we'll see how it does over the next few months. I use lights a lot and tend to wear them out quickly...


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

The BT40S is back in stock on Amazon. Prime eligible as usual.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Yes, Prime returns too.. 

Revtronic BT40S Neutral White LED

I recommended the BT40S to a couple of neighbors, one came without batteries, 2 days later he had the replacement!



hiro11 said:


> The BT40S is back in stock on Amazon. Prime eligible as usual.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

hiro11 said:


> This light may or may not still be available, but here's my impressions:
> 
> I've used the BT40s twice now on fairly long dark rides. Initial reaction: this is a tight little light. The build is in general solid. The lighthead is nicely machined and finished and the standard Magicshine-style mount seems to work well. Two minor complaints: the two way switch isn't as positive as I'd like (it works fine, though) and the case for the battery is a bit chintzy. The multi-color indicator light is indeed bright but on the bars the lighthead is well out of my field of vision so it doesn't bother me.* I personally don't buy the 1,600lm rating, my light might output 1,200-1,300 on high.* Still, that's plenty of light. Also on the upside, the light's color temperature is much warmer than many other lights I've used making for a much more pleasant look to the light. The beam pattern is a good balance of spot/flood with the standard optics but a bit too diffuse with the flood optics. The battery life is impressive, *I got 90 minutes out of the battery on about a medium setting (maybe 700-800lm output) before the indicator life changed to blue from green. Blue indicates 50-75% left in the battery, that's plenty of life.* Overall, this light seems like $60 (with shipping) well spent for the kit, we'll see how it does over the next few months. I use lights a lot and tend to wear them out quickly...


Yes, I too believe the lumen output is over-rated but like you said, It is still very bright.

If you've gotten the good batteries you should get decent run times. Just don't rely on the indicators for judging your batteries run time. Those indicators will behave differently at different temperatures. If you really want to know your total run time you have to do a run-time test ( at home ). Of course you could do one while riding but you need a back-up when the battery runs out. Personally I hate doing run time tests. Main problem is you have to run the lamp on high and even with a fan going to cool the lamp it still might over-heat. The better way to do run time tests is of course with a hobby charger that has a "discharge feature" but if you don't own one of those you have to do it by actually running the lamp.

Probably the easiest method is to just use the one battery on multiple rides, add up the typical ride times of the rides and when the battery runs out of juice you should a very good idea on how long the battery should last on your typical rides. Just be sure to be running another lamp when the battery is near the end and have a back-up battery ready to go so you can finish the ride.

If you typical use the medium ( second mode ) and high ( third mode ) settings most of the time you should get excellent run times.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well since these are still going strong, I will remove the resistor mod on mine and run it through the sphere. Then we'll know for sure exactly what it produces for lumens.

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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Well since these are still going strong, I will remove the resistor mod on mine and run it through the sphere. Then we'll know for sure exactly what it produces for lumens.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


Cool! I was wondering if you could do just that.

-Garry


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I'd like to see the resistor modded bt40 sphere tested for output as well! Maybe I'll harass my sister(master soldering technician) into doing the resistor mod. Wonder if it will void the warranty?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes it voids warranty and readings for my modded bt40 are on my sheets linked on the test equipment thread. Mines 1884 lumens. Stock based on how much I increased it would be around 1400.

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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Got it. That's downright impressive for changing a resistor. i didn't scroll down far enough on the page before, thx.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Dirt Road said:


> I'd like to see the resistor modded bt40 sphere tested for output as well! *Maybe I'll harass my sister(master soldering technician) into doing the resistor mod.* Wonder if it will void the warranty?


Well, this is just my opinion on the matter but I don't think having another 300 lumen with this type of lamp ( optic ) is going to make that much of a difference. I only say that because last year I tried using two BT40S lamps on the bars and found the resultant usefulness of the beam pattern "Not" to be of my liking. With twice the output there was simply more light near the bike than what I needed. I had so much light near the bike that even with the neutral white LED's I was getting much more reflective close-in feedback glare. Of course that was with twice the output so perhaps with just a 20% increase the added glare factor wouldn't be noticeable. ( * I'm sure tig will correct me on this point if I'm wrong... )

Still, most people who owned the stock BT40S seemed to agree that there wasn't a big noticeable difference between the high mode and the boost mode with the standard setup. If you change the sensing resistor the "noticeable difference" ratio between high and boost probably won't change because the mode settings themselves aren't programmable. All the modes will be brighter which means the lamp will also use more power regardless of what mode you are using. _Personally I like the brightness settings the way they are. _ While I might want for a slightly brighter boost mode the rest of the settings I like the way they are.

Now if I could increase the power output of the lamp and program the mode outputs the way I want ...OR... direct more of the output forward with some sort of mixed optic...either of those two scenarios I could accept as a viable trade off ( for using more power ). To put another way; If I'm going to use a lamp with more luminous output ( on the bars ) I want the "added power usage" to do something special to add to the visual usefulness of the light coming off the bars.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Actually cat your quite right, dual is going to be bright in close. Causing the same annoyances as cool white in close. Because your doubling the lumens in the given area. That's just a property of light. Also why mixed optics is basically required for the bars with high lumens and why I keep saying to stop with wanting insane lumens. It's detrimental. My mod pushes up to the limits for the optics before you get feedback glare. Humidity levels and such can make the issue worse.

However parallel to the ground you will gain throw. At a distance that would measure 10 lumens on a meter, with dual would measure 20 lumens, so you would have to increase distance to get the same rating. But that applies IN ALL DIRECTIONS that light is emitted.

Cat, my mod wasn't for the lumens, it was because turbo was more than I needed most of the time, high not enough. Boosting everything 20% made my modes more fit to my liking as my current selection of helmet lights couldn't bridge the gap and maintain throw. Now it's pretty overpowered (except medium)for most of my riding.

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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK sphere results done. Ya I hate undoing sense resistor mods, such a pain in the a$$!

1391 lumens @ 30 seconds (ANSI test procedure for the new ppl)

And that's with one emitter I know isn't quite right, wasn't reflowed perfectly center and I've been too lazy to fix it. So stock would probably be a hair over 1400.

But for true rating, this would pass ANSI lumen output for 1400 rating.

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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I think tig was saying this, but it didn't come across clearly to me; boosting output (i.e. more lumens) on the same LED's will always push the light out for more throw. Adding more LED's at the same drive current level will simply keep throw the same adding more lumens within that same area. So Cat, your side by side test simply showed doubling the lumens in front of you without pushing out for more throw was more detrimental than it was worth. I think you'd find driving the LED's a bit harder and gaining throw is worth it.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

There is also another "issue". Human eyes are adaptive as we already know. Having twice amount of light in near area would tighten eyes pupils so less light will come into it. That way you would maybe see even less throw or it would seems to you about equal.
Anyway throw is a function of intensity not lumens.


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> OK sphere results done. Ya I hate undoing sense resistor mods, such a pain in the a$$!
> 
> 1391 lumens @ 30 seconds (ANSI test procedure for the new ppl)
> 
> ...


Interesting, brighter than I thought! Thanks very much for conducting this test!

Is the output any different for the BT40S vs. the BT40?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry you will actually gain useable throw from more LEDs. The main reason many multi emitter lights have same/less throw is because of the optics/reflectors, not the number of LEDs. Doesn't matter if the lux is being generated by 1 led or 5, if they all have the same optics/reflector for each emitter, the 5 emitter unit will far out throw the single emitter. But it would be a rather large light. 

Same as with cats dual lights, everywhere the beams blend, the lux is increased to match the combination of both lights. So your lux readings at 25ft with a single light would be much high with duals. Close to but probably not quite double. You would have to increase your distance from the lights to get the same lux reading as you would with a single light at 25ft.

Which means you gain throw, not a whole lot, but you still do. But with more emitters usually means smaller optics, so wider beam/less throw. Dual lamps there is a large gap in the middle so again, wider beam created but the main spot will end up still blending together, putting more lumens at a given distance in the center.

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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Sorry ledoman, missed you post when I replied.

But as Ledoman said, lumens actually means little in the case of throw. Just everyone is stuck on lumens=how much light. So I was trying to make it easier for ppl to understand.

But to clear all this up, lumens IS actually NOTHING MORE than a way to measure light output in an integrated sphere to give a given light a "rating". It means so little overall because as debates have waged numerous times because people say " there is no way this light makes 1400 lumens, my 1000 lumen light is brighter". When actually the 1000 lumen light is in no way brighter. Just that the optics/reflector focuses the light into a small spot INCREASING INTENSITY. Like saying the sun through a magnifying glass is brighter because the point it creates is brighter than the sun lit ground around it. The light being generated IS THE EXACT SAME. It the BEAM PATTERN that is different.

Sum it all up STOP BUYING LIGHT BECAUSE OF THE LUMENS, it's how the light output is used. 1000 lumens from an LED without and optic or reflector would be useless as a flashlight that you need to light things up 100 ft away. But a 500 lumen led put in a tight focused optic or reflector would have no problem lighting up something 100ft away.

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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Thx Tig for the bt40 test. Very insightful info about putting lumens ratings into perspective from all.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> OK sphere results done. Ya I hate undoing sense resistor mods, such a pain in the a$$!
> 
> 1391 lumens @ 30 seconds (ANSI test procedure for the new ppl)
> 
> ...


Are the emitters and/or driver on this light more efficient than the typical dual/triple xm-l lights I'm used to dealing with (Yinding, Duo, X2, Olympia)? The BT40s has the lowest current draw/longest runtimes of any of the mentioned lights. Using the lights you've tested in the sphere the Yinding is closest in current draw/run time yet produces 30%+ less measured lumens and current draw/runtime #'s are similarly disproportionate on the slightly more powerful X2. I'm using my BT40s, Yinding, X2 for the current draw/runtimes and while I know lights can vary, over 30% doesn't seem reasonable to me. I hate it when things don't add up so I hope you can help it all make sense to me.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Well you're talking 4 emitters vs. 2. 4 emitters driven at the same level as 2 produces more total output. Increase in output is not exactly linear with current increase (at least not in the higher current ranges). See these graphs produced by BLF user Match:

XP-G2 (look at aluminum mounted):









XM-L2:









According to the graphs taking the BT40S's Turbo being 1.75A for 0.875A per emitter before losses (forget losses for this exercise), that puts each XP-G2 putting out about 340 lumens. 340 x 4 emitters = 1360 lumens (before losses). With the BT21's Turbo being 2.8A for 2.8A per emitter, according to the graph each XM-L2 is putting out about 990 lumens. 990 x 2 = 1980 lumens (before losses).

Note that these emitter measurements may not be exactly correct and were only based on 1 sample, but at least they were measured by the same user with the same methods (and measured in a DIY Integrating sphere).

(In this case we're also looking at XP-G2's vs. XM-L2's, though Cree lists them as having very similar "maximum lumens per watt" specs - 167 for the XP-G2 and 170 for the XM-L2).

Hope this helps.

-Garry

EDIT - Corrected BT21 output.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry not sure if your using bt21 as an idea for 2 emitterz but the bt21 is not 1.4 per emitter, it's 2.8 (emitters in series). Actually settles in at 2.6A. Didn't take readings on the output side but talking 20-21w input. So it's output is actually far closer to 1800 lumens. Depending on emitters i would say 1600 due to horrible optics efficiency

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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ah yeah, you're right. I was posting in a rush and missed that -DOH! I happened to get the BT40S correct since I more or less copied info I previously posted elsewhere. So I'll edit my post above. Thanks.

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Gotta say I'm still confused. Charts seem to show almost identical lumen output per unit of energy at the current draw levels were looking at. I just don't understand how the BT40s can produce 1400 lumens @ 1.75a when everyone else's lights (ones I'm familiar with) only produce 1000 - 1150 lumens at the same current draw.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mole,

It's actually quite simple.

1st is emitter binning can vary by 5-6% for output. So mine may be a higher one.

Nitefighter at the beginning at least used high bin xp-g2. Most other lights with xm-l2 MAY use U2 bin but most are t6.

Bt40 optics are actually quite efficient by Chinese standards. As I'm seeing with yinding optics, Chinese optics are usually between 75 and 80% efficient (till you hit the leddna/fastech optics in white holders). Bt40s optics based on what I'm seeing compared to other xp-g2 optics I have, are made correctly for decent efficiency.

Final thing, 4 emitters at say 1A each is going to produce 10-20% more output than 2 emitters at 2A each all else being equal. On top of the fact that the more current you push to emitter, the higher the vF is. So you need more Watts per lumen at THR higher drive current than the lower.

So a dual emitter light creates lower lumens per watt drawn from the pack than a 4 emitter light with the same draw.

This is why more emitters is better for straight lumen output if you want to keep current draw and input voltage the same. You can run more in parallel, create more lumens for the same power requirements.

Not sure what lights your comparing to but my x2 has the same current draw more or less and is 1550 lumens.

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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Alright, I'm finally good with this. Thanks for your help and patience. Ran current draw on my lights (BT40s, Yinding X2, BT70) and used the results to divide the posted sphere results you got on these lights by (Lumens divided by amps.). BT70 - 849 (lumen per a), BT40s - 844, X2 - 809, Yinding - 561. Looks like the Yinding is the odd ball not the BT40s and perfectly believable that it uses lower quality parts.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Now if you replaced those 4 XP-G2's with XP-L's at stock driver current, you'd really see more lumens and longer runtime compared to the BT21. I'd like to get another BT40s head only to try XP-L's in it. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I dont see increased run time, not enough to really be much cause xp-l run a bit higher vF as well I thought. Definitely get a whole lot more lumens though.

Mole, testing on different optics (and not new so had scratches etc) still a 8-10% gain in output over stock optics. Yinding stock optics SUCK lol. Forgot to post that when I tested it.

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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah, much increased lumens, but little gain in runtime (would be gain though running the XP-L's at lower current pulled from the pack).

Another good use of the sphere, seeing how different optics affect output. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Mole, testing on different optics (and not new so had scratches etc) still a 8-10% gain in output over stock optics. Yinding stock optics SUCK lol. Forgot to post that when I tested it.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


I always suspected that optics efficiency was part of the equation and not just beam reshaping that gave me increased lux #'s in my bounce and center beam tests but couldn't prove it without a sphere (Thank you very much!). Results should be interesting.

(Off Topic***): Got a treat on tonight's ride. A school I go by to get o the canal system I ride frequently has someone that practices the Bagpipes some where on campus. Timing was right and I got to enjoy that unusual and entertaining sound as I rode by on my way home.

Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Optics/reflectors, lenses, the clear plastic covers used over optics (like x2) all play a part in efficiency of lumen output from emitters. That's why many lights are "over rated" because they aren't taking things like losses due to those things into account. The most efficient set ups are about 93% efficient. Cheaper means lower. Also why you see us taking about AR coatings. Anti-Reflective coatings do just that, they keep glass and plastic from reflecting the light back into the light head. You gain lumens OTF that way. But in some cases that can be a negative effect for beam pattern. AR coatings usually cause a smoother transition. So if your mental about a tight looking beam pattern then you may not like it. However it doesn't effect the spot pattern or throw. Usually gain just a tiny ount of throw since more lumens are making it OTF.

Well since my desktop should be back up and running tonight and I took my mod out of my bt40, when I get time I'll do a runtime/output graph for it.

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## imbaqq (Apr 5, 2016)

Hey gang, a new member here  I'm thinking about getting this light but even after watching every video I could find about it on tube, I still need some assurance. Would you recommend this light for road rides at night? I always adjust my speed to the road conditions but say I was on an unlit road and I could ride a bit faster, would this light be enough to see far ahead enough to react in time to debris and things like that? Or, if I have confused you, would this light be enough for a normal night time road rides?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

imbaqq said:


> Hey gang, a new member here  I'm thinking about getting this light but even after watching every video I could find about it on tube, I still need some assurance. Would you recommend this light for road rides at night? I always adjust my speed to the road conditions but say I was on an unlit road and I could ride a bit faster, would this light be enough to see far ahead enough to react in time to debris and things like that? Or, if I have confused you, would this light be enough for a normal night time road rides?


The BT40 is designed to have a very wide beam but limited throw (distance). Good light but I would look else where for the usage you described. Give us your price range and I'm sure you'll get multiple suggestions on a better suited light.
Mole


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## imbaqq (Apr 5, 2016)

I was thinking about something below 100 euros. It's not that I have night time rides but I do get caught in the dark often, plus me and my buddies have planned a 300km trip this summer so I'd like to be prepared for that. The only other light that caught me eye is Fenix BC30 but that light alone is 70 euros without batteries and charger.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

This is a link to the US site so you can see the light/specs, but I believe there is a dealer or 2 over there as well so you can easily get one.

https://www.ituolights.com/products/wiz20

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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I thought you'd get more options than the Wiz20 but I guess I can't think of anything else that will give you more performance and value and best meet your needs as described. New light, new company that advertises quality at a reasonable price. Prototype performance has been excellent + very good 2hr on high runtimes thanks to the provided high capacity premium quality Panasonic batteries (field changeable so easy to extend runtimes). Even though this is an unproven new product I think it's worth your time to consider, I took the leap of faith and mine arrives tomorrow. Ituo also has a non-selfcontained 2 emitter light coming out in the next few weeks (no prototypes as of yet).
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

imbaqq said:


> Hey gang, a new member here  I'm thinking about getting this light but even after watching every video I could find about it on tube, I still need some assurance. Would you recommend this light for road rides at night? I always adjust my speed to the road conditions but say I was on an unlit road and I could ride a bit faster, would this light be enough to see far ahead enough to react in time to debris and things like that? Or, if I have confused you, would this light be enough for a normal night time road rides?


I've used the BT40S on the road before ( for shorter distances ) and yes it can work but if you're the type of person who pushes the envelope for speed I think you would be better served with a lamp with better distance throw.

The ITUO lamps offer some good choices ( as mentioned by the others ) but _if you are planning an extended ride ( 300km ) you will need to know how long you will have to ride at night and what will be your "recharge strategy" for charging the batteries._ The ITUO lamps will provide good distance throw if you're planning to fast ride. I have the ( single emitter ) ITUO *Wiz-1 and on it's highest setting would be very hard to out-run the throw ( *being it is a reflector based lamp )

Keep in mind that you don't have to limit yourself to "self-contained" lamps and there are many good choices when it comes to bike lamps that are "geared well for the road".

Anyway, the big question is , "How long will you be riding at night (?) and will you be stopping somewhere that will give you the chance to recharge the batteries(?) ( if needed ). Hard to recommend a lamp when you don't know how it's going to be used and/or charged if you are riding longer distances.


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## imbaqq (Apr 5, 2016)

That is a good question indeed. I don't specifically go out at night for a ride but rather get caught riding at night since I like to start my ride around 18h and by the time I'm done the sun is long gone. Considering my previous experience, I'd say that I would consider a light if it can provide 2h (just in case something unexpected happens and I need the light to last a bit longer) of good visibility. Knowing the roads I ride on, anything over 35km/h at night would be dangerous. I will try to locate wiz20 in Europe. Thanks for the help guys. I had really high hopes for BT40s, especially after seeing those claimed runtimes and great price


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

imbaqq said:


> That is a good question indeed. I don't specifically go out at night for a ride but rather get caught riding at night since I like to start my ride around 18h and by the time I'm done the sun is long gone. Considering my previous experience, I'd say that I would consider a light if it can provide 2h (just in case something unexpected happens and I need the light to last a bit longer) of good visibility. Knowing the roads I ride on, anything over 35km/h at night would be dangerous. I will try to locate wiz20 in Europe. Thanks for the help guys. I had really high hopes for BT40s, especially after seeing those claimed runtimes and great price


Since you mentioned being in Europe that puts a different spin on getting a bike light. Some countries charge heavy import duty fees ( taxes ) for ordering a product outside the country so I can't comment too much on how hard or easy it will be for you to get a good bike light from outside your country.

Right now it sounds to me as though you just want a lamp for those times you stay out longer than usual. However you also make mention that the roads you ride on are dangerous. Not sure if that is because the roads themselves are in bad condition or you see heavy traffic (?)... Anyway, since you also mention being interested in the wiz20 you might also consider buying a Gloworm X2 as they may be easier to get ( although they will likely cost more )

There are of course options that are less expensive but once again not all vendors ship internationally. I've ridden the roads with a variety of lights but I always prefer a two emitter set-up on the bars. Then I use a small single XM-L2 emitter torch on the helmet for those fast downhills or for when a little extra is needed to see around turns.


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## imbaqq (Apr 5, 2016)

The roads in my town area are dangerous mostly because of their condition, about 70% are being repaired so there is no much choice for my routes. I have found wiz20 on gearbest for 90€, without batteries though, and bt40s is 39€ on that website. They even ship products to my country. Is the price difference really worth it?

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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It's been stated somewhere (one of the Ituo review threads), that GeaBest lists the Ituo lights but Ituo won't distribute through them so GearBest will never be able to ship Ituo lights.

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

imbaqq said:


> The roads in my town area are dangerous mostly because of their condition, about 70% are being repaired so there is no much choice for my routes. I have found wiz20 on gearbest for 90€, without batteries though, and bt40s is 39€ on that website. They even ship products to my country. Is the price difference really worth it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


If your roads are in bad condition I understand why you "need" a lamp with a wider beam pattern.

What Garry said is true. Gearbest is listing the Wiz20 but likely they will not be able to actually sell it since they have none in stock. While Gearbest does list the BT40S as being in stock it is very doubtful if they actual have it since the company that made the Nitefighter lamps is no longer making bike lights ( as far as I know ). If you buy one you are rolling the dice per say. They may still have some in stock or not. If you order anything from Gearbest make sure you use the expedited shipping options. My last order from Gearbest never arrived and they wouldn't give me a refund. Use Gearbest at your own risk.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I ordered my wiz20 through their U.S. Website. At one time, I was going to get one through Gearbest. Thx to this forum, I most likely saved myself a big headache by not buying through GB. I don't have any real issues with GB, but they seem to like listing products without having them in inventory. But I'm curious if they really have the wiz20?Meanwhile, Revtronic has the BT40 on Amazon. $59.95 free shipping with Prime.


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## imbaqq (Apr 5, 2016)

Alright. I will skip them then. I'll check european amazon stores and if there happens to be something interesting I'll either open a new thread or ask in an already existing one if it exists. Thanks for the help everyone.

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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

imbaqq said:


> Alright. I will skip them then. I'll check european amazon stores and if there happens to be something interesting *I'll either open a new thread or ask in an already existing one if it exists*. Thanks for the help everyone.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


Good plan on this. I have a BT40s question for you though. What speeds are you traveling at? The description of your roads might very well limit your speeds to the point where the BT40s beam distance may be adequate and as Cat-Man-Do mentioned on rough roads a wide beam is usually desirable by giving you a wider field of vision and greater ability to plan an alternate route when trying to steer around a hazard. I should have asked about your speed in the first place.
Mole


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## imbaqq (Apr 5, 2016)

At nights, if I'm on a bad road or a road that I don't know I don't go over 30km/h. I'd rather have a longer ride than end up in a hospital 

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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

imbaqq said:


> At nights, if I'm on a bad road or a road that I don't know I don't go over 30km/h. I'd rather have a longer ride than end up in a hospital
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


For me anyway, 30 km/h would out-run the throw capabilities of the BT40s and yes, hospitals are never fun.
Mole


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## ZIPPYZOOM (Nov 26, 2005)

I'm using this light on my road bike and the battery is a bit cumbersome, especially paired with my water bottle. I'm looking for an affordable, yet smaller batter (i don't need terribly long battery life). - What is a good option to use with the bt40s?

THANKS!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ZIPPYZOOM said:


> I'm using this light on my road bike and the battery is a bit cumbersome, especially paired with my water bottle. I'm looking for an affordable, yet smaller batter (i don't need terribly long battery life). - What is a good option to use with the bt40s?
> 
> THANKS!











MJ-6092 2600mAh 2-cell battery ? Action-LED-Lights









I was also going to suggest just using a top tube bag but after looking at the stock battery bag I tried this and it looks like it will work pretty good.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1065388
> 
> 
> MJ-6092 2600mAh 2-cell battery ? Action-LED-Lights
> ...


Wow! That's a nice looking pack at a nice price! Wish the cells were at least 3,000 to 3,200mAh, but then again it probably wouldn't be so cheap.

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Wow! That's a nice looking pack at a nice price! Wish the cells were at least 3,000 to 3,200mAh, but then again it probably wouldn't be so cheap.
> 
> -Garry


I agree! Great price! Half the cost of the Gemini 2-cell and the Gemini hardpack 2-cell doesn't include a protective rubber pad.

Of course keep in mind if you get a 2-cell with 3400mAh cells that the cells "weigh more" than the 2600's. While not so important if used on the bars if you use on the helmet you _might_ notice the heavier weight. I have both so I'm just saying...


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## ZIPPYZOOM (Nov 26, 2005)

Thanks so much!! Ordering now.


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

I use a BT40s on both road and trail rides. I know it's designed as a trail light but it works fine on the road. I did a 26 mile road ride this morning averaging 19.9 mph / 32 kph with no issues. I'm not sure what some of you are talking about, this kicks out more than enough light and throw to ride at any speed. A more road specific lighthead might improve throw a bit and narrow the beam but the stock lens is perfectly fine for road use.

Also, the battery pack is plenty small, I personally don't understand how some people can find it cumbersome. I typically strap it beneath one of the tops of my drop bar with the lighthead on the other side.

For $60 shipped, I'm not finding a lot to complain about with this light.


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## ZIPPYZOOM (Nov 26, 2005)

hiro11 said:


> I use a BT40s on both road and trail rides. I know it's designed as a trail light but it works fine on the road. I did a 26 mile road ride this morning averaging 19.9 mph / 32 kph with no issues. I'm not sure what some of you are talking about, this kicks out more than enough light and throw to ride at any speed. A more road specific lighthead might improve throw a bit and narrow the beam but the stock lens is perfectly fine for road use.
> 
> Also, the battery pack is plenty small, I personally don't understand how some people can find it cumbersome. I typically strap it beneath one of the tops of my drop bar with the lighthead on the other side.
> 
> For $60 shipped, I'm not finding a lot to complain about with this light.


I agree that this light is great - and works well for the road. The only reason I want a smaller battery is because it often gets in the way of my water bottle and its weight causes it to sag over time and loosen the velcro straps.


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## Speeder500 (Oct 9, 2012)

I just purchased the Yinding 900 from gearbest in Neutral White and I really like it. Just received it today.

I see there is a BT40S model. I was wondering, is the BT40S model even better then the Yinding 900 I just recieved from gearbest for bar mounted light?

Thanks.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

The BT40 is a good light for the bars. Floody beam, neutral white. It's a worthwhile kit for the price. I asked the Revtronic amazon rep for a code and got mine for $41 and change.
That was a few months ago, so results will vary....


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Dirt Road said:


> The BT40 is a good light for the bars. Floody beam, neutral white. It's a worthwhile kit for the price. *I asked the Revtronic amazon rep for a code and got mine for $41 and change.*
> That was a few months ago, so results will vary....


Sounds like you got a good deal. The BT40S still amazes me. Right now I'm using the Gloworm X2 ( with neutral LEDs ) on the bars. Just the other day I brought the 40S out again to compare it with some of the other lamps I have and with all things in perspective like price, optics , emitter type, etc...really hard to beat the value you get with the BT40S. Even when compared with the better Gloworm lamp the BT40S provides one of the better beam patterns I've seen coming off the bars. GWX2 beats it for throw but the 40S holds it's own and might very well be better when viewing stuff very close to the bike and into the 100ft. range. ( using the standard optic ).

The thing I really like the most about the BT40S is that, "Even the lower output levels are very usable". This means the lamp can operate very efficiently if run on the 1st or 2nd mode. This is something that can't be said for every light system. The Gloworm X2 is of course very usable on lower levels as well. The fact that the GW has a wired remote, better mounting options and is programmable, those are the main reasons I have stayed with the GWX2 as my main bar lamp. Still, If I had to go back to using the BT40S I would not have any problem doing so at all.


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## Speeder500 (Oct 9, 2012)

can-man-do, how does that GWX2 compare to the Yinding 900? It looks very similar.

I am very happy with the Yinding 900. It just looks super good with the Neutral white, super small, and super bright.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Gwx2 is alot better light than a yinding. Yinding is a decent light but gloworm x2 and Gemini duo (what the yinding is cloned after) both have higher output and other features.

I have a couple yindings and nice lights for the price but heat issues make it hard to use during warm months.

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## Speeder500 (Oct 9, 2012)

Does the BT40S have the heat issues in the warmer weather like the Yinding?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

not near as bad but it still doesnt like being used at max output at low speeds for very long when its hot out.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> not near as bad but it still doesnt like being used at max output at low speeds for very long when its hot out.


There is help for that .....

GoPro light adapter with fins for additional heatsinking - Page 8- Mtbr.com


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Speeder500 said:


> can-man-do, how does that GWX2 compare to the Yinding 900? It looks very similar.
> 
> I am very happy with the Yinding 900. It just looks super good with the Neutral white, super small, and super bright.


If you have a Yinding with neutral white emitters you should be very happy with that. The small duel emitter lamps with typical optics provide a very nice beam pattern. Included in that list are the yinding, Gemini Duo, KD2 ( Duo clone ) and of course the Gloworm X2 which somehow handles the heat very well.

The BT40S does indeed get hot if used on the higher output levels ( high and boost ) for more than a couple minutes. Than again that's pretty much standard for most LED bike lights.

Like was mentioned above if you have problems with heat build up you might try getting one of the Vancbiker Gopro adapters to help bleed away some of the heat. Reviews on those have been good. Matter of fact I will likely be buying a couple of those myself. ...Anyway for FWIW I never had heat issues with the BT40S that I wouldn't have considered abnormal. Then again I don't use the boost levels on most lamps unless I'm riding at faster speeds

Now the Gemini Duo I own...that baby gets hot, reeeeal fast. VanC adapter for that one for sure but that said the interesting thing about the Duo is that even though it gets hot real fast it also COOLS SUPER FAST once you change modes to medium or low.

Speeder, if I were you I would consider buying the BT40S, use it on the bars and use the yinding with spot optics on the helmet. As for me I'm using the Gemini Duo ( yinding is a Duo clone ) on the helmet with spot optics but am thinking of using the Vancbiker Gopro adapter with a Gopro helmet mount to help with heat issues. That said I'm not currently having any heat issues with the Duo as long as I'm not using it for prolonged periods of time at the highest output level.


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## Speeder500 (Oct 9, 2012)

cat-man-do, I bought the BT40s and was thinking of making my yinding more of a long throw spot light.

Could you recommend the optics I would need to buy in order to do this. 

Thank you


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Glowworm x2 spot optics are great, otherwise the spot optics from Ituo are awesome too (fairly cheaper and what I use for spot optics in everything except my x2 and xs) or you can order the same spot optics from China but looking at a long wait to save a couple bucks.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Speeder500 (Oct 9, 2012)

Thanks for the recommendation I will look into them. 

Kind of off topic, but what is the recommended best value rear bike light? There seems to be an agreement that the BT40S and Yinding 900 are best value lights.

Does this exist with the rear light? Or is any of them good as the rear light doesn't matter all that much.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

not really, rear lights you research based on your needs. not much difference in cheap ones, they all work just have to decide what you want. Not a "popular" item except for commuters so each of us jsut grab what we need. The little bit more expensive ones ($30-50) are a bit more expensive but thats where the best tail lights are found.

What lights you need is dependent on your intended use. If its strictly single track trails then no reason for a rear light. If you ride fire roads or pavement, then you have to decide what is important to you. Plus how important is waterproofing? If you ride in a lot of rain and water, get a decent one not a cheap one. Waterproofing I havent found that great on any cheap one I have. And I have several

I have a couple cheap ones that work fine, Ituo Prototype, and a cygolight hotshot. I never use the cheap ones unless the other 2 need recharged. Ituo for general and trail use. Late night commuting is either the Ituo or the cygolight. If its foggy, bad weather always the cygolight hotshot as it penetrates the thick air better.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I use the cygolite hotshot. I've seen them for $20-30 range. Has a lot of output for daytime riding. I had a MS tailight and it was weak by comparison. I'm sure there's a lot of good ones out there.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Speeder500 said:


> *Kind of off topic,* but what is the recommended best value rear bike light? There seems to be an agreement that the BT40S and Yinding 900 are best value lights.
> 
> Does this exist with the rear light? Or is any of them good as the rear light doesn't matter all that much.


*Please, don't ask an off topic question, just start a new thread.* This thread is already quite long. I sure others will appreciate seeing a new thread for rear lights as there are many of those.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

So I needed to finish mowing my yard after sunset Saturday night and needed a bright floody light to use (since my mower headlight mod isn't done). I chose my heavily modded BT40S which worked out great! (Except for the fact that I made the battery cabling quite short for this use.) I wore it on my head attached to one of those typical MagicShine style headbands. Picture shown is on Turbo with battery worn down a bit and taken with my cell phone. I didn't mow using "Turbo" as it was way overkill. I ran on medium which was still getting quite hot and bumped it to low every now and then. For mowing I'd wish the tint were a little warmer in order to help distinguish cut from uncut. Fortunately in this case the grass was quite tall so it was easy to distinguish.










-Garry


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

I bet all kinds of annoying flying insects were "all over you"


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

You must live out in the country to be able to mow after dark. Even then why would you wait till at night to cut??? Just curious 

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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm outside of town, but plenty of houses in the area. My free time is very limited. Couple that with weather and planned picnics (i.e. Sunday we were having the family over for a picnic) and I"ve got to get done what I can get done when my time allows. My mowing got cut short that afternoon due to rain showers and so I resumed later in the evening. (Grass was really wet and I usually don't mow when it's wet, but I had to get it done.) If I didn't mow that evening the yard would look like a jungle by the time I'd get to it this coming weekend. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ah ok, was curious because around here even though in a small town etc (cornfields on 3 sides, river on 4th side) if I fired up my mower after dark.....

I definitely get the limited free time thing, didn't even ride the last 3 days and didn't get my "new to me" minivan repairs completed like I had planned. Only personal "to-do" I got done was taking my weed trimmer and cutting back all the undergrowth of my local trail. Around 2miles of "jungle" thanks to all the rain.

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## Yok (Jun 17, 2015)

The BT40S now selling on Gearbest does not come with the helmet mounting component like that of BT21 when the latter was available?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

You don't use this light on the helmet, it's no good for helmet use. But they used to come with a cheap strap to try and put on your helmet

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## Yok (Jun 17, 2015)

BT21 is no longer available on GB. What's the alternative in your opinion?
Why is BT40S not good for helmet use? Thanks.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

It's not good for helmet because it has no throw, it's a very wide beam. Be ok for road use but not for trails as a helmet light.

There's a lot of good lights out there but their not cheap lights. After everything I've seen and dealt with in having cheap lights, I recommend people by quality, branded light set ups. 

The only other decent light that's cheap is the yinding. Better helmet light than the bt40 but lacking on output.

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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I was on Amazon and saw a VOMLITE. It is strikingly similar to the BT40. I'd post a link but idk. Be cool if "VOMLITE" gave the BT21 a go.


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## trekcarbonboy (Mar 3, 2008)

Not sure what people have against this light on the helmet. I run one on my helmet and it's great! I typically use 2 40's with a flood lens on the bar and spot lens on my helmet. I have ridden with just the helmet and it's still great. I ride twisty, gnarly, wooded trails at a fast pace and have no problems seeing everything I need to with it. I don't think I ever run it on full power either.
And the helmet mount it came with also works well.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Tight twisty stuff it isn't bad no matter what but once you get on open ground where you can carry good speed the throw sucks. I get mostly like your trails with some really open ground and the bt40 is lacking on throw for me. And I am not big on high throw lights because of wooded trails, but I like some when I need it cause there are drop offs and such in some spots where I'm carrying serious speed that I like to know are coming as early as possible.

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## zerafael (Nov 25, 2015)

Hi i bought 6 months ago a bt40s.

i charged my battery and now it does not work. Tried a friends battery and the light works.

Is my battery dead? Is it possible to fix the battery?

Thanks in advanced


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

zerafael, what is the voltage of your battery pack? You might need to check the wires. Take a look similar thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/n00b-needs-advice-re-assemble-replace-1019322.html and all about how battery packs are built - links in post #3.


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## Tigerman82 (Aug 19, 2016)

Bought BT40s from Gearbest and noticed right away that the light (not the battery pack, mind you) emits high-pitched noise (quite audible from a few feet away) when it's on. However, when at the hightest mode, the light is quiet, but at all the other modes the noise is there. 

Do I have a faulty unit or is this something that can be compared with LCD-TVs with clouding/backlight bleeding (meaning an imperfection that doesn't make the unit faulty in the eyes of the seller).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That's called high frequency pwm. It's normal for most lights.

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## Speeder500 (Oct 9, 2012)

I just checked my BT40s out. On the highest setting no noise.

On any other settings very low noise, I can only hear it if I hold it directly up to my ear, anything more than about 4 inches I can not hear it.

If you hear it more than 5 inches away, either you have super hearing or a crappy unit.

Are you young? I'm in my mid 30's, but if you are really young your hearing may be very good and you can hear higher frequencies better.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm 35 and I hear it on a lot of my lights if their within 24" of my head. I have a couple flashlights that it's really noticeable.

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## Tigerman82 (Aug 19, 2016)

Thank you for your comments. I guess I just have to get used to the noise/frequency pwm. I'm 33 btw and do have a pretty good hearing when it comes to high-pitched noises.


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## Agorazo (Sep 1, 2016)

After reading this and other threads I'm ready to buy this light as a bar light but I don't know what set to buy!

*Is it better to buy the lamp and the battery separate or as a whole package? *

I was planning buying the battery from Kaidomain and then the lamp from gearbest but it seems that if just buying the lamphead I won´t get the extra lens (or the battery obviously!)? Can anyone confirm this?

Does anyone know if the included battery pack from gearbest is a good quality battery equal to the one from kaidomain?

Also I have an ok 4 cell battery pack from before (I use a Solarstorm x2 on my helmet) *is it better to buy a 2 cell pack and use together with my solarstorm?

What do you guys recommend? *


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You're correct that buying the light head only does not come with the "wide" lens, but I can't imagine that wide lens being needed. The "narrower" lens already has a very wide beam pattern. (I bought light head only BTW.) 

The battery pack that comes with the BT40S is a decent pack, much more so than random no-name Chinese packs. The Panasonic cell packs from KD (or GearBest if you choose) will be superior yielding more runtime and having a thicker power cable, but it's your call on whether or not they are worth it or necessary. You'd be fine with the stock pack. 

What is the 4-cell pack from your SolarStorm? If it's a no-name Chinese pack I'd buy something genuine and trustworthy. It could be ok, but I'd highly recommend staying away from those cheap packs. 

I would recommend the Panasonic 2 cell pack from KD (or again I believe Gearbest sells it) for use on your helmet. I personally use an adapted/modded Fenix 2-cell case and use my own 18650's, but that case is no longer available (unless your lucky to find old stock).

-Garry


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## Agorazo (Sep 1, 2016)

garrybunk said:


> What is the 4-cell pack from your SolarStorm? If it's a no-name Chinese pack I'd buy something genuine and trustworthy. It could be ok, but I'd highly recommend staying away from those cheap packs.
> 
> I would recommend the Panasonic 2 cell pack from KD (or again I believe Gearbest sells it) for use on your helmet. I personally use an adapted/modded Fenix 2-cell case and use my own 18650's, but that case is no longer available (unless your lucky to find old stock).
> 
> -Garry


The 4 cell pack I use with my solarstorm is a solarstorm case like the one you guys have reviewed here, the cells are trustfire cells 3000mAh. So it's not the cheapest of the lot, but it's not Panasonics. My solarstorm lamp runs for maybe 4-5h on one charge.

Decisions, decisions... ☺ I'd need up to 2,5h of run time. Is that possible with my solarstorm and a Panasonic 2 cell pack from KD you think?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Agorazo said:


> Decisions, decisions... ☺ I'd need up to 2,5h of run time. Is that possible with my solarstorm and a Panasonic 2 cell pack from KD you think?


We could roughly determine that if we knew the current draw of your light in the various modes. We'd also need to know which modes you use for what percentage of that 2.5hrs. Those SSX2's vary greatly so we can't assume yours has the same current draw as what others have posted up. My suspicion is that you would be fine. I think I can get 2.5hrs+ out of my NiteFighter BT21 ran on (2) LG 18650 MJ1's which are rated 3,500mAh and very comparable to the Panasonic cells in the KD/GB Pack. In real world use of my BT21 I'm running mode 3 most of the time (or maybe it's mode 2, can't remember as it's been months since I've done any night riding).

-Garry


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## Speeder500 (Oct 9, 2012)

You guys are right, the BT40s with the Yinding 900 with Ituo spot optics, is a very good setup using both at the same time.

Is there anything I can improve on this setup? Or is just diminishing returns and not worth it.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not much you can really do without adding costs and knowing how to tinker with lights. Unless your like us and just enjoy messing with them to see how far we can push before they fry it's not worth trying to mess with. Better off buying good branded lights at that point.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Gearbest put out a coupon code for the BT40S set 

Nitefighter BT40S Cree XP - G2 1600lm LED Bike Light Mini Neutral White Mountain Bicycle Headlamp-47.59 Online Shopping| GearBest.com

$33.99 for the first 30 orders they receive. The coupon is not MTBR only.

Valid till the end of October if anyone is interested


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GJHS said:


> Gearbest put out a coupon code for the BT40S set
> 
> Nitefighter BT40S Cree XP - G2 1600lm LED Bike Light Mini Neutral White Mountain Bicycle Headlamp-47.59 Online Shopping| GearBest.com
> 
> ...


Just wondering how you know if you are getting the "$33.99 price". Is there a coupon code or something? Great deal on the 40S if you can get it at that price. Looks like it's still being sold with a 5200mAh BAK battery which is a very decent battery.

If someone wants one of these you best not delay. They will run out of stock quickly.


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## j__h (Jul 16, 2012)

Yes I would also like to know how to get the deal if it is still ongoing


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I like how gearbest gives out a great price on an item, then charges $10 shipping on top of price. Shipping is usually free, btw.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> I like how gearbest gives out a great price on an item, then charges $10 shipping on top of price. Shipping is usually free, btw.


Quite true for economy shipping. Expedited delivery is still about the same its always been for this light set though. I've had poor luck with free shipping from Gearbest (30 days to never delivery) but less than a week on all my expedited shipments + no problems. Something to consider when ordering from them.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

$9.62 for economy unregistered air mail. Gearbest has recently been pulling this crap on certain too good to be true sale prices. No free shipping option is available. Guess that's how they give these fictitious low prices. I have at least 30+ orders thru GB, and always got free shipping or sometimes I paid $1.50-$2.00 for expedited. I'd go Amazon and email revtronic for a discount code. Can't hurt to ask.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> $9.62 for economy unregistered air mail. Gearbest has recently been pulling this crap on certain too good to be true sale prices. No free shipping option is available. Guess that's how they give these fictitious low prices. I have at least 30+ orders thru GB, and always got free shipping or sometimes I paid $1.50-$2.00 for expedited. I'd go Amazon and email revtronic for a discount code. Can't hurt to ask.


My GearBest experiences have been similar to yours and I always wondered why the BT40s cost so much for expedited delivery compared to other similar prices lights. Always has been a free shipping option though. Nitefighter/Yinding have been the only things I looked at that this vendor sells. Don't check their pricing every day just commenting on what I've noticed. Have you ever seen significantly lower expedited delivery charges on this particular light?
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Dirt, thanks for giving us a cleaner view of Gearbest shipping practices.

Mole, thanks for the head-above-ground view point.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I just ordered another BT40S lighthead only from Amazon for $24.99 w/free shipping (not just Prime members only). I plan to mod this one with XP-L's and boost the driver output some. I thought about XP-L HI's, but I'd like to go for more lumens. 

-Garry


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Interesting, 4-7 days shipping, must be a North American warehouse..... good price.



garrybunk said:


> I just ordered another BT40S lighthead only from Amazon for $24.99 w/free shipping (not just Prime members only). I plan to mod this one with XP-L's and boost the driver output some. I thought about XP-L HI's, but I'd like to go for more lumens.
> 
> -Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I just got a shipping confirmation too!

-Garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Hello,Sorry for my Bad English!
I use one Headlamp and one on the handlebar!
I have some Yindings for drive in the night with some Optics,10,25,45 Grad and one Nitefighter BT21!
But i will buy a new Bike Light, is a Nitefighter BT40 still fashionable?
When the Lampe is good i will mod this with newer Leds and maybe a better driver!
Is the Lamp good and what was the Best Leds and driver for much Power for this?
The BT40 Vares widly and not so far,how far the Light Maximum? 
I would buy online the Headlamp for 26,work the Headlamp Connector with Yinding Accu Connector?
As alternativ i would buy a Nitenumen BC A2 or a Solarstorm XT40?
Thank you !


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

It's still a decent light. Not something that can easily be modded unless you know how to reflow LEDs. The best LEDs that will work with the optics is the XP-G3.

There is no other drivers for these lights or that will work with them. 

And it cannot handle being pushed any harder. Housing cannot take the heat.

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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

garrybunk build Nichia 219C's in his BT40,are XP G3 better or Nichia 219C's?

Has made the garrybunk eremitter something more current for LED comes or has he left it serie?
garrybunk also tun his eremitter in this Thread on site 10,but I dont know with components he use?
Sorry for my english!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, I reflowed Nichia 219C's in mine, not so much for more output but for better tint & color rendition (& also just because I wanted to try out the new Nichias). The Nichias also require less voltage to drive them, so they should remain in regulation longer (i.e. higher output for longer time). The XP-G2's are known for being much more demanding on voltage when driven harder.

Perhaps this link to Post #58 in my BLF Bike Lights Thread helps. I didn't post the reflow video over at BLF, only here in this MTBR thread further back. You may not wish to drive this light as hard as I pushed it. Turbo is really just for "WOW!" factor and will likely burn the light up quick unless you have A LOT of airflow. Even low mode was boosted up higher than I'd like to have it. Continue down through that BLF thread and you'll see additional comments, photos, etc. . . There are links to the components I swapped on the driver (same links posted in this thread further back which you found). [EDIT - sorry, no links to purchase products but they shouldn't be too hard to find.] It's not that difficult of a mod if you can solder small components. You definitely want the Deal Extreme 20ga cable if you're boosting driver output in order to get max current from the battery pack. You would also require a high quality battery pack such as the new KD (or GearBest if you prefer) Panasonic cell packs which are supposed to come with 20 ga cable.

Tig - do you think it's better to use XP-G2 S3's instead of XP-L's or even XP-L HI's? [EDIT - I see now there is in fact an XP-G3 out! Boy am I losing touch with current technology in LEDs! I'm going to have to look into how these perform and compare. Questions still remains - XP-G3's over XP-L's?] I do wonder if the XP-L's I plan to mod with will just end up producing a huge bright flood of light in front perhaps ending up being too blinding up front without putting enough light out far enough. We'll see I guess.

BTW - My BT40S order hasn't had an update in tracking since "processed through sort facility in China". Ugh!

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Sorry I don't want to derail the thread, but since I brought it up in my last post I'll address it. Yes, according to this test & comparison of the XP-G3, it is likely indeed a better choice than an XP-L or XP-L HI (unless perhaps you're want the XP-L HI to go for max throw from this which I think is not a good objective with this light). So tig I guess I answered my own question. Good thing I haven't bought emitters for my 2nd BT40S yet!

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, xp-g3 can't out perform the xp-l, but it is ever so slightly better than the xp-l hi. And a good bit more lumens than 219C (though CRI isn't quite as high)

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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Which XP G3 do you mean exaxtly?Which CRI? Which Bin?

https://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+XPG-3&sortby=3&filter=

your modified BT is very cool but unfortunately I do not know what new components you have installed on the board or where exactly you've soldered them?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I can post labeled pics and maybe get you some links at a later time when I'm back on a regular computer and not my phone. Sorry.

Also, per discussion at BLF, seems the dome on XP-L's is likely too big for the optic. That means XP-G3's will be a better choice. Lumen difference between the 2 won't be visible by eye. 

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Details on my modded BT40S driver (click to enlarge):



And this appears to be the best photo I have after replacing the components (click to enlarge):



Follow ledoman's posted formula from post#385 to calculate which sense resistors you'd like to use:



ledoman said:


> Good catch Archie! We need to open and inspect our lights. BTW, do you know what is U3 chip and it's feedback voltage? Normaly we are seeing something like 5421a or LEDA chip. This one is marked as MH8015 as far as I can see.
> 
> EDIT: never mind, I've found it HERE. Feedback voltage is 0.2V. So the current to the leds is calculated by:
> 
> ...


Some quick links (best to buy multiples):

AO3400 FET's. 

SS54 Diodes.

DX Extension Cable with 20ga Wiring.

For the sense resistors you do your calculation and then search Ebay (or wherever you wish). Buy 1206 size 1/2 watt and 1% tolerance if possible otherwise 5% is ok. Remember the R takes the place of the decimal, so R500 = 0.500 ohms, R120 = 0.120 ohms. Oh, and sometimes the Chinese put the R at the end such as 120R. I bought my resistors from FastTech and Mouser (but I doubt Mouser is an option for you).

As far as which XP-G3's to use, that's up to your preference of tint. For tint reference see this ANSI white chart. Most of us will tell you to go with Neutral White. People vary on which NW tint to go with, some say 3C, some 4C, some like me say a 5B1 yields most realistic color. I'd probably recommend a 4C for you. To me a 3C is not neutral enough.

You also have to look at the "bin" of the LED. Generally the cool whites come in higher bins and as you get warmer the bins available get lower. The higher the bin the more output the LED is rated for. Of the ones I see bare at Cutter, their "4 bin tint" is only an R3 Bin which is REALLY low. So of what Cutter has I would choose their 3A tint S5 bin, though it will end up on the cooler side of neutral white. (By the way, I'm not sure if their quad boards would work in this light.) The ones I'm looking to use from Mountain Electronics in the US are 3C S5 bin. I'm not sure of other sources; perhaps I'll look at Mouser too.

Hope that all helps,
-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Holy crap Garry didn't realize you went through all that work, nice job. 

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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

:thumbsup: Can't wait for some beamshots and see the moon mode!
Cool stuff gb.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Whoa whoa whoa! That was my first modded one with Nichia 219C's. That's been posted (though with less detail) including beamshots. (Beamshots including mouseovers easy to view over at BLF in "My Bike Lights" thread - see my signature.)

gecco PM'd me too. Thought it was more beneficial being posted in public. 

BTW- My 2nd BT40S finally hit customs in NY. Now where did I put those extra FETs?

Also, today I mounted a GoPro mount on my lawnmower. I'm using it to hold a phone holder so I don't have to keep digging my phone out of my pocket to see what song I'm listening to or a text received. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Gary, I knew you had molded it and saw the pictures, just didn't realize you sorted out what needed to be changed and changed that much on the driver. I don't have that much patience lol.

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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Thank you very much for this work!
My BT 40 is on the way!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Received my 2nd BT40S just minutes ago. This time I received the wider frosted lens and an extra plastic mount. It is branded "Revtronic". Shipped from Andy Wong.

(click to enlarge)


-Garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Can you tell me where is the best XP G3 Led for BT40?
http://www.mouser.at/Optoelectronics/LED-Emitters/High-Power-LEDs-White/_/N-ec21h?Keyword=xpg3&FS=True

and do you know where is the original BT40 Led that a compare this?

XP G2
[url]http://www.mouser.at/Optoelectronics/LED-Emitters/High-Power-LEDs-White/_/N-ec21h?Keyword=xpg2&FS=True

Thank you!

[/URL]


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> Received my 2nd BT40S just minutes ago. This time I received the wider frosted lens and an extra plastic mount. It is branded "Revtronic". Shipped from Andy Wong


Andy Wong? Lighthead only? Got a Link pls? Same-day shipping over at Amazon now...

TIA


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It's no longer up on Amazon as light head only. That's where I bought it, but it came from Andy in China not Amazon. Was a 3 week wait. (Andy is apparently the owner of Revtronic/Nitefighter.)

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

gecco said:


> Can you tell me where is the best XP G3 Led for BT40?
> http://www.mouser.at/Optoelectronic...wer-LEDs-White/_/N-ec21h?Keyword=xpg3&FS=True


I went for 4000k (warmer side of neutral white that I love). Hopefully this link helps you: http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_Prod...rknbu83y9/0l5xAqdxotjY6oCBIt%2bghiaxqvBpmvQ==

I got Cree Part# XPGDWT-B1-0000-00LE5 . I had to go back & forth between the Cree datasheet & mouser to figure out what Mouser was listing.

-Garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

And this Led fits with your modification with more power on the board?
http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_Produ...xqvBpmvQ%3d%3d
When comparing the BT40 with the Yinding warmwhite comes a the BT40, 
despite clear glass somehow hazy before!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Don't buy from mouser for leds....

Www.mtnelectronics.com

The yinding and bt40 use different leds.

To change leds you must know how to reflow solder. If not then you can't change them.

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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> I went for 4000k (warmer side of neutral white that I love). Hopefully this link helps you: http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_Prod...rknbu83y9/0l5xAqdxotjY6oCBIt%2bghiaxqvBpmvQ==
> 
> I got Cree Part# XPGDWT-B1-0000-00LE5 . I had to go back & forth between the Cree datasheet & mouser to figure out what Mouser was listing.
> 
> -Garry


Goodness! Hard to believe anyone can work with just the bare emitters ( no board ). Gary I guess you must be good at this since you've done others before. I'd of gone with the 4500K's over the 4000K's but it will be interesting to see how the 4000's pan out. Post us some beam photos when you get it done.

Would be nice if the owners of Revtronics decided to upgrade the emitters to XP-G3. That's assuming of course that they aren't now using the cheaper Chinese emitters.

Now I know someones going to say that just upgrading the emitters isn't going to make much difference. Likely true when it comes to the highest output but when running lower outputs you get more light and that should be quite noticeable.

Just last week my florescent lights ( bulbs ) in my kitchen went up. I had to use one of my BT40S's for back-up till I got the chance to pick-up some new bulbs. I found out just how efficient the BT40S lamps are because I accidentally left the lamp on one night ( low mode / 6600mah battery ) before going to bed. Next day I woke up and the lamp was still on. Not sure how long it was on but at least 8hrs.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Gecco, your link doesn't work correctly for me (I just get Mouser's homepage). Yes, any XP-G, XP-G2, or XP-G3 emitter will fit the stock emitter board. The XP-G3's should provide a nice boost even without modding the driver. They also have a significantly lower vF (forward voltage) so their output will stay brighter for longer even giving slightly longer overall runtime (how much so I don't know). Also because vF is lower that means you can more easily drive them with more current.

If you want to match a Yinding you may wish to choose a 3C 5000k emitter.

Tig - gecco is not in the US (though Mtn Elec can ship international at increased cost). Mtn was out of stock and I wanted a warmer tint than the 3C he sells.

Cat - My favorite tint is 5B1 which is 4,200k. Beamshots of that tint are in my HD-016 thread (see signature). This tint yields the most realistic colors in my opinion. My 2nd favorite is 4C. I don't feel that 3C is neutral enough. These 4,000k might turn out too "rosy" but I still think I'll like it better than 3C.

Oh, and they're not that hard to work with. You've seen the reflow video I posted, right? That video was recorded as my first attempt on a quad board, and only my second attempt on any multi-emitter board. So long as you pull the heat away once the emitters "float" you don't have to worry about burning anything up. They also "float" into position pretty easily too. Just have some practice on some old used emitter boards or order some cheap LEDS to practice with.

Here is a link to the chart of ANSI white: 


-Garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I am from Austria, I would prefer to order the Leds from Austria or Germany.

tigris 99
Why do not I order the Leds from Mouser?
Any other German company?

Why should I not exchange the Leds, of garrybunk is synonymous to a video like this?




Is the circuit board only provided with thermal grease or is it glued?
Can I use as a new heat transfer paste the https://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/mx-4.html?

I would first exchange the Leds, the original Leds are of the light color so gloomy and milky despite the clear lens!
I find the BT40 not weak but somehow still lacks the clarity in the light color, but it spreads very wide!
Here is indicated as max current 2 amperes, I do not shoot the Leds with up to 3 amps?
Cree XLamp XP-G3 LEDs
What else could I do to improve the heat dissipation of the leds to the housing, apart from the new heat transfer paste?
I have my Yindings synonymous with the MX4 pimped, it is now much faster warm, but whether the thermal paste is also suitable for lamps I can not say normal for CPU coolers, etc.?
Copper platinum is not exactly as the original? Ideas?

Do you mean this Led, garrybunk?
http://www.mouser.at/ProductDetail/...bPOcKkp4PiRQdFXhY4V4BsgEVtS2RtCN83MQNLZopt2LX

With mouser you can choose these filters!








What is the value of Color Rendering Index - CRI?70.80.90?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The led board shouldn't be glued, just has thermal compound. The MX-4 thermal compound would be good to use (I use that myself). The XP-G3 link at Mouser is the same one I bought, yes. I've not used them yet so I can't comment on them at all yet. The driver circuit board I believe is just held in by a tight press-fit.

The XP-G3 can surely handle more than 2A. They've been tested up to 10A, although that is mounted on DTP copper boards. Us light geeks don't follow the manufacturer's rated maximum current levels. Your issue will be heat and how much heat the light body can handle. 2A per LED is plenty I'd say. That's what my 1st modded BT40S runs and it's more than enough light, too hot to leave on high for long, and difficult for a battery pack to fully power it. The only other thing you can do to improve the heat handling would be to add an aluminum mount to add some more mass. You could talk to vancbiker about international shipping on his aluminum gopro mounts or possible find someone to machine one for you in your area.

The CRI of that XP-G3 you linked is 70 which is average. It will be fine for average use. For CRI, the higher the number the better it is at rendering colors.

-Garry


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## pepsican (Jul 2, 2008)

garrybunk said:


> I got Cree Part# XPGDWT-B1-0000-00LE5 .


Wondering if you went with the 70CRI version for a reason.
Is it not worth the lumen hit on the higher CRI versions?

Was thinking about this one # XPGDWT-U1-0000-00FE5 mouser

Figured a higher CRI would look more natural.
Here is the PDF if anyone is looking for all the numbers of others.


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Can anyone who on Mouser show which Led Original is installed in the BT40? Than i can campare the Leds!

The above mentioned Led has 90 cri but the has much less lumen! What do you mean?

It should shine brighter than the original


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## cardnation (Jul 2, 2014)

Good morning all. What is the current consensus on the Revtronic BT40S from Amazon? https://www.amazon.com/Revtronic-16...00R1JC894/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Good/Bad? Worth the $60?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

pepsican said:


> Wondering if you went with the 70CRI version for a reason.
> Is it not worth the lumen hit on the higher CRI versions?
> 
> Was thinking about this one # XPGDWT-U1-0000-00FE5 mouser
> ...


The higher CRI ones are lower bins (yours linked is only an R3 bin which is WAY lower than the S4 bin I linked. I also don't think you'll notice the CRI difference in casual use so I don't think it's worth stepping down to those bins (because you will notice the lower output from that much lower of a bin).



gecco said:


> Can anyone who on Mouser show which Led Original is installed in the BT40? Than i can campare the Leds!
> 
> The above mentioned Led has 90 cri but the has much less lumen! What do you mean? I tend to 4200 color reproduction!Which Cri i dont know?
> 
> It should shine brighter than the original


We don't know exactly which emitter is in the stock BT40S. It is definitely an XP-G2, most likely a 3C tint (or very close), and very likely a typical 70CRI. As far as bin, it could be any and often the Chinese will use lower bins just because they are cheaper. They may have sourced a lower bin 3C which Mouser doesn't even list/sell. However, it could very well be one of the most common bins found for a 3C tint (R5 or S2). Quickly looking on Mouser, I'm seeing 3C tints of XP-G2's in R3, R5, & S2 bins.

Don't worry much about the CRI. If you can buy the same tint & bin in higher CRI go ahead, but be satisfied with the typical 70CRI. And the XP-G3's will definitely increase lumen output!



cardnation said:


> Good morning all. What is the current consensus on the Revtronic BT40S from Amazon? https://www.amazon.com/Revtronic-16...00R1JC894/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
> 
> Good/Bad? Worth the $60?


Yes, well worth the $60 considering your getting a quality light head with a good battery pack.

-Garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I have got a question which light color has the Led in Nitefighter BT21?
How many K?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I believe the Nitefighter BT21 and BT40S would both be a 3C tint which is 5000k. 

-Garry


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

cardnation said:


> Good morning all. What is the current consensus on the Revtronic BT40S from Amazon? https://www.amazon.com/Revtronic-16...eo-20&linkId=8a9aa5fef92c34c72122242667acab58 Good/Bad? Worth the $60?


I'm a Gloworm guy but I bought one for my wife, great bar light, might be ok for helmet if you don't need a lot of throw. Plenty of battery for her 45min rides. Too heavy for her on the helmet.


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I've found two stores that offer this XP G3 Led.
Mousser and Digikey!
In Digikey, the Led with different media Tape and Reel, Cut and Tape and Digireel, which is easiest to take? TRND, CTND or KRND, I have no idea!
Elektronische Komponenten und Teilesuche | DigiKey Electronics
At Digikey and Mouser you get an additional 20 € shipping for an order of 20 Euro.

Is there a shop where I get the AO3400 Fet and SS54 Diodes still, except ebay.Wenn possible in a shop, primarily in Germany?


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

I received my BT40S today and it looks really nice. I switched to the frosted lens to see what that was like but it was way too floody even for me so I switched straight back again!

Hopefully should be able to try it out on our normal Thursday night ride for a better evaluation of its capabilites, especially matched to my BT21 with 10 degree optics on the helmet.

Also reminds me of a very similar light I built myself back in 2011. Original XP-Gs driven at 1.2A for about 1200 lumens. Still being used today by my grandson!


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## Averbuks (Oct 24, 2014)

Sorry if this was discussed, what is the best bar mount that is compatible with this light? Does the factory one work well?


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

Averbuks said:


> Sorry if this was discussed, what is the best bar mount that is compatible with this light? Does the factory one work well?


Personally I never like the rubber band style of mounting a light such as used here. At best they let the light wiggle a bit giving a flickering beam and at worst the light actually moves on the bars.

I always swap it for a more rigid clamp style like the one you can see in my previous post for my DIY light. I think a lot of people on here tend to use the GoPro type light mount with an adapter.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

My two have the DX aluminum o-ring style mount on them the stock one is known to break because the plastic is too thin at the screw.

And I checked back and saw I did order the SS54 Diodes from mouser. Listed as: 
625-SSC54-E3/9AT
SSC54-E3/9AT
5.0 Amp 40 Volt

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Kaidomain sells tabbed Silicone O-rings for only $1.29 a pair, in either Black or Glow-in-the-Dark Green. They are much more grippy than those that come with Nightfighter or MagicShine lamps; so much so that I find it extrodinarily difficult to adjust the angle of my BT40S on the fly when mounted with one of these.

http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S024313.Silicone-Elastic-O-Ring-for-Bike-Light-Green-1-set

http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S024356.Silicone-Elastic-O-Ring-for-Bike-Light-Black-1-set

Pretty sure KD includes a pair or two with all the bike lamps they ship under their own brand. Shweeet!


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## Lovespicyfood (Aug 4, 2012)

So would two of these be a decent budget setup? One for the handlebar and one for the helmet?


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

OverTheHill said:


> I received my BT40S today and it looks really nice. I switched to the frosted lens to see what that was like but it was way too floody even for me so I switched straight back again!
> 
> Hopefully should be able to try it out on our normal Thursday night ride for a better evaluation of its capabilites, especially matched to my BT21 with 10 degree optics on the helmet.
> 
> ...


That lamp is amazing.


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Have gearbest also a Cheap 5.4mm Male to Female Extension Cable for SKU 29489/30864 (100cm)
or only DX Shop?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S024776.5_5mm-x-2_1mm-Male-to-Female-20AWG-Extension-Cable-100cm-Length
Waiting to get one to see if it is the same as DX one. Don't know about GB.


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## Averbuks (Oct 24, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> One thing to remember is that the indicator lights are based off the voltage of the pack. Not sure what kd2 case your using (the yinding clone version or the mj880 clone version). The yinding clone version case is crappy imho. Especially if its the one that you plug the lighthead into the top of the case instead of it having its own wire. The mj880 clone version is pretty decent, but has a few short comings (which arent hard to fix with a soldering iron and 22awg silicone wire).
> 
> There is several things that can cause voltage sag that bad, but first run on a pack is always far shorter than any runs after.
> 
> ...


Does anyone have a photo of the battery case that comes with the BT40s? I ordered mine from gearbest but there was no photo of the battery/case. Is it worth upgrading?

Lastly, since this is my first light anyone have tips on best way to mount and route the cables? Thanks in advance.


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## redmr2_man (Jun 10, 2008)

I emailed gearbest about their coupon, they said it's expired and no new coupons for the BT40s


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Averbuks said:


> Does anyone have a photo of the battery case that comes with the BT40s? I ordered mine from gearbest but there was no photo of the battery/case. Is it worth upgrading?
> 
> Lastly, since this is my first light anyone have tips on best way to mount and route the cables? Thanks in advance.



















Here's your battery picture and how I mount it on my roadbike. Lots of different ways to mount batteries, a lot depends on your frame design but this should work for most frames.
Mole


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## Averbuks (Oct 24, 2014)

Thanks for sharing, I wouldnt mind getting a hardcase as opposed to the soft bag


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cheap lights rarely come with hard cases. If they do they are pretty large. As well as they don't form to the frame to help hold them steady.

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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Lovespicyfood said:


> So would two of these be a decent budget setup? One for the handlebar and one for the helmet?


I had this setup for a while and didn't love it. Great on the bars, but heavy and not enough throw on the helmet. I recently switched to a $15 Kaidomain KD 2X (BL-10MU2NW), and am much happier. The color is close enough not to bother me, and the throw is much improved. Its quite light and small, and I even run a 2 cell battery mounted directly on the helmet instead of my bag. I dont get hung up on branches anymore.

Anyway, this was purchased as a stop gap measure while I wait for the next uber-twin to come out. But for the price, its a great little light. I may just keep it.


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## KevinB2 (Jan 30, 2010)

GuitsBoy said:


> I recently switched to a $15 Kaidomain KD 2X (BL-10MU2NW), and am much happier. .


At the risk of derailing the thread, any chance you could provide an linky to which light you mean, GuitsBoy? Is it this one?

http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S023808.KD-2-x-Cree-XM-L2-U2-Neutral-White-4700k-5000k-4-10-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black

thanks


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

KevinB2 said:


> At the risk of derailing the thread, any chance you could provide an linky to which light you mean, GuitsBoy? Is it this one?
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S023808.KD-2-x-Cree-XM-L2-U2-Neutral-White-4700k-5000k-4-10-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black
> 
> thanks


That looks to be the one. On a shoe string budget, I feel it complements my BT40s quite well. I run it on level 7, and it gives me over 2 hours out of a homegrown 2s1p panasonic 3500 mah pack. Light is way more tightly focused, and will throw nearly twice as far as the BT40s at similar power levels.


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## KevinB2 (Jan 30, 2010)

Thank you.


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

So, I have now still 2 BT40 ordered 1ne I already, I would like to equip the lamp with new components as garrybunk has made, components are ordered, furthermore I would plug new XP G3 Leds. I've been looking for traders (Germany) (coming from Austria), I've noticed Mouser. Now I would have searched for neutral white Leds, from 4000-4750K. 4000K available, 4200K Minimum order quantity 1000 pieces, 4500K 6 weeks delivery time, 4750K Minimum order quantity 1000 pieces. 5000K Available Now remains only more 4000K and 5000K over, the 4000K are I believe already to pink or? If you look at mousser.at there are of the 941-XPGDWT0100LF4 or 941-XPGDWTB100LF4 If I take the 4750 Leds, what is the difference, there is the WTO and the WTB Leds, which should I take, but gives of all Leds so, WT0 or WTB? What light color would you take? 4000K or 5000K?
At 4500K is at least 6 weeks delivery time!
Help!
Where can I get Leds between 4000 and 5000K still? Thanks


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Don't have time for a full response, but take a look here too:
https://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Power-LEDs-Cree/CREE-XP-Series-c_120_138.html

-Garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Led tech leds are much more expensive because I need them without star


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

You can buy them there without star

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## Lovespicyfood (Aug 4, 2012)

https://slickdeals.net/f/9281319-16...032615&utm_campaign=tu4&src=da_si_v2_16616146

Available for $9 off right now w/ code!

Is the charger safe on this set? No worries about overcharging? I went ahead and ordered one...


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

The original BT40 Led XP G2 R5 has 115 ° that XP G3 has 125 ° view angle, does this fit?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, an XP-G3 is a direct replacement for any XP-G2. Viewing angle does not matter, that's just the resulting beam pattern.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Lovespicyfood said:


> https://slickdeals.net/f/9281319-16...032615&utm_campaign=tu4&src=da_si_v2_16616146
> 
> Available for $9 off right now w/ code!
> 
> Is the charger safe on this set? No worries about overcharging? I went ahead and ordered one...


Good decision!


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## Lovespicyfood (Aug 4, 2012)

Darnit! Got my lamp but two of the four LEDs do not turn on.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Sadly, that right there is the reason refuse to deal with cheap lights anymote. No Warranty and plenty of bad ones make it out to use. Sorry man, of you bought Off Amazon your ok, if not good luck getting any Support.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Lovespicyfood said:


> Darnit! Got my lamp but two of the four LEDs do not turn on.


Don't feel bad. This thread has been going for over a year and you're the first person to report getting a bad one ( I think ). You just rolled a snake-eyes in the Chinese lottery. It happens. Luckily if you bought it off of Amazon you should contact the dealer to get a replacement or refund. Don't be surprised if the dealer sends you another lamp head really fast. ( Note; if you can supply a photo or video of the lamp with the two emitters not working and share it with the dealer this might help speed up the replacement process. To do this put the lamp in the lowest mode. Use a sheet of plain white paper, fold it over and hold it up over the front of the lamp. This will help demonstrate which emitters are working and which aren't without blinding the camera. )


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

LSF bought the Revtronic through Amazon. No need to document defect, just go to Your Orders, select Return or Replace Items, that's pretty much it.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Agree with everyone that Amazon has awesome customer service and they'll take care of you right away. I wouldn't hesitate to order a replacement though. Its very rare they anyone sees any issues with this light. I have two with many hundreds of night miles each, and they still work perfectly despite the usual bumps and wear and tear. If you chat with an amazon customer service rep, theyll usually send out the replacement, and you can return the old on any time within a month.


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## Lovespicyfood (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the replies! I requested a refund via Amazon and ordered a new one that should be here by Saturday (I have Prime)...figured this was easier than waiting for them to get the return and then send another out...

It was impressively bright with only those 2 LEDs working though!  Will post when I get the new one back...

Not to derail this thread, but can anyone recommend a 2cell 18650 case for the helmet light recommendation of the Kaidomain? I did a search and couldn't find anything...I'd prefer to have a case I can replace the batteries as I have a nice 4 cell 18650 charger.

I used to be totally into radio controlled planes and helis and have some pretty nice chargers for batteries. For the BT40S, how are you storing the pack long term? I'd actually prefer a pack where I can take the 18650s in and out so I can use them for other things...

Thanks in advance for your help!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Lovespicyfood said:


> ....Not to derail this thread, but can anyone recommend a 2cell 18650 case for the helmet light recommendation of the Kaidomain? I did a search and couldn't find anything...I'd prefer to have a case I can replace the batteries as I have a nice 4 cell 18650 charger.
> 
> I used to be totally into radio controlled planes and helis and have some pretty nice chargers for batteries. For the BT40S, how are you storing the pack long term? I'd actually prefer a pack where I can take the 18650s in and out so I can use them for other things...
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help!


Used to be a Fenix 2-cell ( 2S ) cell holder but not sure they are available anymore. Would be nice to have a cheap light-weight two cell holder but the Fenix ones are the only ones I ever saw and they do add more size and weight to the set-up if used on the helmet.

Kaidomain sells good two cell Panasonic battery packs ( with rubber boot ) at a decent price. Carry a spare and you are usually good. I don't usually ride with a two cell on the helmet but when I do I'm usually fine with just the one. If I think I'll be out for more than two hours I'll bring along my spare Hunk Lee two cell and carry it in my bag.

Of course ordering batteries this time of year is likely going to take some time, especially if you're ordering from China.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

EDIT: Content removed for safety's sake. What I may be comfortable doing is not necessarily a suggestion that others do the same.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Your lucky you didn't damage the cells or the protection circuits doing that. You NEVER solder Li-ion cells with low power, not supposed to do it at all, but a big iron so your on and off extremely quickly is ok, heating things up like that can cause even the best cells to vent, leak, and ignite.

Don't anyone attempt that, this guy got massively lucky.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## kle5701 (Jun 3, 2016)

I just bought the Revtronic BT40s off amazon that I plan to mount on a bar. Can this forum recommend what's a good light I should get on a helmet that similar to the neutral color of the BT40s. Was thinking of getting a cateye volt 300 or something similar (light and motion, bontrager ion, etc...) at my LBS but don't know if those are neutral white.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

tigris99, just a couple things... 

First, I'm not soldering directly to the cell. Theres a button (protection circuit) on *both* sides of the battery, which is what I'm soldering to. 

Secondly, its a 60w iron. Not a 15 or 20 watt radio shack special, but certainly not a 200w gun either. Still, I'm not on there long enough to damage the cells, IMO. 

Lastly, I test charge/discharge capacity with a hobby charger first. And afterwards, I always charge in a Lipo bag or on the garage floor away from any combustibles.

Still, you have a point that other people who are unaware of the risks could potentially hurt themselves or others. I have removed my content so nobody is tempted to blindly follow the same choices I've made.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Appreciate the correction sounds a bit better but a lot of people do blindly follow these posts so we have to be cautious. Soldering to cells in general is a really bad idea, even with protection there is a solid, direct thermal path to the cell. Not as bad as without as you said. 

You've probably read the stories of packs going critical, still happens these days, worries me some kid will see a post like that and be like " I can do that". 

It wasn't the Soldering part that bothered me, the low power iron is what made me speak up cause that's the "higher risk" part of it.


Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## Capt.Ogg (Jun 5, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> Sadly, that right there is the reason refuse to deal with cheap lights anymote. No Warranty and plenty of bad ones make it out to use. Sorry man, of you bought Off Amazon your ok, if not good luck getting any Support.


How right you are. The plastic mounting piece broke on my BT40S. Bought from Gearbest. I asked them if I can buy spare one(s). They just mumbled about expired refund and warranty period and refused to help. I also asked directly from manufacturer and they told to deal with Gearbest 

I recall seeing some alternative mounting methods in this thread, going to look after them now.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Appreciate the correction sounds a bit better but a lot of people do blindly follow these posts so we have to be cautious.


You're right. It was a bit careless for me to suggest doing such a thing, which is why the info has been removed. If nothing else, they will have to do their own research, and therefore will be made fully aware of the risks involved. I will continue rigging up my own packs, and packs for friends, but I understand the risks and feel that they have been mitigated. But still, thank you for expressing your concern and looking out for the safety of members of the forum.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Like I said I have done it too. Built a couple packs that's way.

Thanks for being cool about it!😎

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Capt.Ogg said:


> .......I recall seeing some alternative mounting methods in this thread, going to look after them now.


Here is an alternative. 

GoPro light adapter with fins for additional heatsinking - Page 4- Mtbr.com


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The simple alternative is the aluminum o-ring mount from DX (DealExtreme). I don't have the link now, but it's been posted before. Certainly nowhere near as nice as Vancbiker's GoPro mounts!

-Garry


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

garrybunk said:


> The simple alternative is the aluminum o-ring mount from DX (DealExtreme). I don't have the link now, but it's been posted before. Certainly nowhere near as nice as Vancbiker's GoPro mounts!
> 
> -Garry


Aluminum Alloy Bike Headlamp Mount Holder w/ Silicone Rings - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Perfect! Thanks for posting.

-Garry


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

Those Vancbiker mounts look sweet. Sometime I will have to get a couple. I rigged up a makeshift universal gopro mount out of the quickclip, but its not the most aesthetically pleasing.


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## Lovespicyfood (Aug 4, 2012)

I got my replacement light and all four LEDs work! Gotta say, I am pleased with the light so far...will try to do a short night ride this weekend!


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## lojden (Nov 12, 2016)

I will receive my BT40 next week, ordered from gearbest. Unfortunately it seems to be a US charger and im in need of a EU charger. Does anyone now any good one to order? Also in need for a carcharger, if there is any suitable ones?

Kind regards


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

They're dual voltage, you just need a plug adapter, http://amzn.to/2ftWfQr

action-led-lights.com sells car chargers...



lojden said:


> Unfortunately it seems to be a US charger and im in need of a EU charger. Does anyone now any good one to order? Also in need for a carcharger, if there is any suitable ones?


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## KevinB2 (Jan 30, 2010)

In case anyone is interested, here's a quick update on my recent ordering experience from Gearbest. I ordered once complete Nitefighter BT40s kit, plus one lighthead only, and a few other little items (cheap Gopro mounts, etc.). 

I used the "expedited shipping" option and the shipping insurance option, those came to an extra 5 bucks CAD. It ended up being shipped with DHL, who ended up tacking on their usual customs brokerage fees and stuff, for another $18 CAD. No duties or taxes were added.

Ordered Friday November 4th just before 6PM PST, it shipped 9 hours later, and it arrived at my door on Wednesday November 9, around 1 PM. So, a little less than five days from placing the order to fondling my purchase : ) I figured that by choosing the expedited shipping option it would just make it more likely that it would actually arrive, but when it took less than five days I was really quite pleasantly surprised!

Both lights are genuine Nitefighter, the kit came in the nice box, the lighthead just in a baggie with the nice 3-pack of O-rings.

I also have shipments from Ituo and Kaidomain on the way, placed at about the same time. the Ituo one is almost here and is coming via USPS/Canada Post, so I'm expecting possibly some duties and/or sales taxes to be added once it arrives. The Kaidomain one said that it shipped right away, but after no tracking a week later and an email inquiry, suddenly it has been shipped via DHL (maybe that is their "registered air mail" option?). I'll update with the final DHL fees when it arrives.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

I finally managed my first ride with the BT40s last night. I was a little bit underwhelmed with it but that is probably something to do with the fact that maybe I am comparing it with the BT21 and Ituo Wiz20 I have. Those two lights both have a tighter beam so therefore will actually appear more intense that the floodier spread of the BT40s.

I was using it in conjunction with the BT21 on the helmet and that has 10 degree optics for more throw. Even so, I was only running the BT21 on the medium setting and it still appeared brighter than the BT40s on turbo. The BT40s is rated at 1600 lumens on turbo but it didn't feel like that to me, more like 1200. I'm not actually disputing the claim output of the light it's just that the very floody beam lacks real intensity.

I would class it as adequate for the sort of riding I do but will probably just keep it as a spare or lend it to a friend if someone joins us who doesn't have a decent light. I was a little confused with the runtime as it went to yellow after about 75 minutes but when I got home I read the instructions again and realised that was 50-25% battery capacity so not as bad as I feared. I have bought so many lights recently that I get confused with all the interfaces now!

One thing that did occur to me is the battery level light on the switch at the back. Several people have commented that this is overly bright and they get distracted by it. However, I have to say the light was well out of my eyeline on the bars and I never even noticed it unless I specifically looked down.

Overall I think it is quite a good light for the money, pretty good quality and value for money. It's a pity that Nightfighter don't make the BT21 any more because I still think a decent twin XM-L light gives a better beam pattern than the quad XP-G. If your budget doesn't run to something like an Ituo XP2/Wiz20 or a Gloworm X2 then this is a good budget alternative.


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

With a BT21 or YinDing on the helmet what light is the best offer for a decent bar light?


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

Pinkman said:


> With a BT21 or YinDing on the helmet what light is the best offer for a decent bar light?


Depends on your budget and/or riding style. If it were me I'd go for an Ituo Wiz20/XP2/XP3 in order of rising cost and power.

Wiz20 - twin XM-Ls if you fancy a self-contained light. XP2 - virtually the same light but with a separate battery pack and longer run times. XP3 - triple XM-Ls for even more power.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

OverTheHill said:


> I finally managed my first ride with the BT40s last night. I was a little bit underwhelmed with it but that is probably something to do with the fact that maybe I am comparing it with the BT21 and Ituo Wiz20 I have. Those two lights both have a tighter beam so therefore will actually appear more intense that the floodier spread of the BT40s.
> 
> I was using it in conjunction with the BT21 on the helmet and that has 10 degree optics for more throw. Even so, I was only running the BT21 on the medium setting and it still appeared brighter than the BT40s on turbo. The BT40s is rated at 1600 lumens on turbo but it didn't feel like that to me, more like 1200. I'm not actually disputing the claim output of the light it's just that the very floody beam lacks real intensity.


Definitely agree with your underwhelming/doesn't work particularly well with a spot optic equipt BT21 impressions on this light. Pairs much better with a Yinding IMO. For me best usage for this light is close/tight trails with limited line of sight distances. Symmetrical floody beam pattern definitely limits flexibility of this light. Light boarders on having too much foreground light which further limits it's already anemic throw (set on turbo). Much prefer no longer available BT70 or BT21 beam patterns overall.



> Overall I think it is quite a good light for the money, pretty good quality and value for money. It's a pity that Nightfighter don't make the BT21 any more because I still think a decent twin XM-L light gives a better beam pattern than the quad XP-G. If your budget doesn't run to something like an Ituo XP2/Wiz20 or a Gloworm X2 then this is a good budget alternative


Discontinuation of the BT21 was a big loss for the budget light arena. At the moment no one has come up with an equal performing and still budget light equivalent but the GearBest project looks promising. BT40s may not be perfect but is still a pretty good light (lots of happy owners) and by far the best budget bar light option currently available. So pretty much just what you said.
Mole


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

MRMOLE said:


> For me best usage for this light is close/tight trails with limited line of sight distances.


Fully agree here. My locale has a ton if very tight twisty singletrack, a lot of which still requires bars cut under 720 mm wide to get through. The flood beam is perfect when speed is limited due to constantly dodging in and out of trees. But I do agree the light has very little throw, which is why it sucks as a helmet light.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

OTH,
Your assessment sounds spot on. It is a wider floodier beam which gives the appearance of less output (i.e. lumens). I don't have sphere measurements on a stock BT40S (although I should do that now that I have an un-modded 2nd one), but I'm pretty sure Tig does. You could take an old XR-E LED putting out say 200 lumens and because it has a brighter hotspot (since it's a throwier emitter) it will look brighter or at least similar to an XM-L(2) putting out 2 to 3 times more lumens. You will notice that the flood/spill from an XR-E is much much dimmer. It's an allusion with your eyes. Another thing to keep in mind is that general rule of thumb is that it takes 4 times the lumens for a light to look twice as bright to our eyes. 
Now you see why some like the BT40s and why some hate it. The output is rather easily increased (with basic soldering skills with small components) too. My modded BT40S floods enough light down the trail that it looks like a freight train coming through the woods! (It's overkill and I don't use Turbo or even high very often.)

I should add that trails I ride are mostly tight twisty singletrack too. 

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

OverTheHill said:


> I finally managed my first ride with the BT40s last night. I was a little bit underwhelmed with it but that is probably something to do with the fact that maybe I am comparing it with the BT21 and Ituo Wiz20 I have. Those two lights both have a tighter beam so therefore will actually appear more intense that the floodier spread of the BT40s.
> 
> I was using it in conjunction with the BT21 on the helmet and that has 10 degree optics for more throw. Even so, I was only running the BT21 on the medium setting and it still appeared brighter than the BT40s on turbo. The BT40s is rated at 1600 lumens on turbo but it didn't feel like that to me, more like 1200. I'm not actually disputing the claim output of the light it's just that the very floody beam lacks real intensity....
> 
> .


I can relate to your assessment of the BT40s. The standard quad optic of the BT40S limits it's throw. On the other hand it provides a very good ( wider ) beam pattern in the 75-100 ft range ( depending on trail conditions and mode used ) and lets you see all trail features very well within it's usable range. As long as you use the 40S in combo with a decent helmet lamp that can provide additional throw you should have no problems riding faster trails. I agree it's probably not 1600 lumen but likely more like 1200-1300 lumen. Personally I've ridden with the 40S in the second mode ( 400 lumen ? ) bar mounted with a brighter better throwing helmet lamp on medium and found the combination more than adequate for winding/slower trails. I had no problems with the faster downhills with both lamps at maximum output levels.


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## zerafael (Nov 25, 2015)

Hi. I have a BT40S for the bars and want to buy a Flashlight for the Helmet. 

What's the best led color tint that works great with the BT40S.

Do you have any sugestion on the Flashlight?

Thanks in advance


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## Lovespicyfood (Aug 4, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> OTH,
> Your assessment sounds spot on. It is a wider floodier beam which gives the appearance of less output (i.e. lumens). I don't have sphere measurements on a stock BT40S (although I should do that now that I have an un-modded 2nd one), but I'm pretty sure Tig does. You could take an old XR-E LED putting out say 200 lumens and because it has a brighter hotspot (since it's a throwier emitter) it will look brighter or at least similar to an XM-L(2) putting out 2 to 3 times more lumens. You will notice that the flood/spill from an XR-E is much much dimmer. It's an allusion with your eyes. Another thing to keep in mind is that general rule of thumb is that it takes 4 times the lumens for a light to look twice as bright to our eyes.
> Now you see why some like the BT40s and why some hate it. The output is rather easily increased (with basic soldering skills with small components) too. My modded BT40S floods enough light down the trail that it looks like a freight train coming through the woods! (It's overkill and I don't use Turbo or even high very often.)
> 
> ...


Can you direct me to the thread with the mods you did? Having been an rc heli and plane guy, I am pretty comfortable soldering...


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It's posted back in this thread somewhere, but likely easier to find they the link in my signature to My Bike Lights thread. But, go back a page (or 2) here where I was helping gecco with an updated version of the mod.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

zerafael said:


> Hi. I have a BT40S for the bars and want to buy a Flashlight for the Helmet.
> 
> What's the best led color tint that works great with the BT40S.
> 
> ...


I think a 3C tint matches best. 4C might be ok. For a torch, take a look at the Convoy lights. Smaller the reflector the floodier the beam. If you want some throw, consider the Convoy M1 or M2. I have 2 M1's built for helmet use. Velcro straps are all I need for mounting. I'd go either XP-G3 or XM-L2. XP-L should be fine too (by the way, you all see the XP-L2 is out?). Look at Mountain Electronics in the US (he ships international too) or FastTech. "Simon" on Aliexpress (sp?) Is head of Convoy I think.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Where is the xp-l2??? Can't find it at mtn...

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I saw something about it not long ago at BLF. Probably just a Cree announcement, haven't seen them for sale yet.

Edit - 
Cree XLamp XP-L2 LED

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> I saw something about it not long ago at BLF. Probably just a Cree announcement, haven't seen them for sale yet.
> 
> Edit -
> Cree XLamp XP-L2 LED
> ...


Cool! Upgrades are always good news, even if it's only a hundred lumen or so.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Besides small lumen upgrade there is probably more important thing. XP-L has tipical Vf 2.95V at 1050mA (85°C) while XP-L2 has 2.82V which is pretty much difference. This means some drivers can stay in regulation some more time.

I'm expecting to see more efficient XM-L3 soon. Hopefuly Cree has plans to do it.


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Some questions here:

If I add two R500 resistors on top of the existing, the resulting resistance gets lower, because it is parallel. The result is more current. Am I right?

If I go to add these two R500s to the existing ones, the light will have 2,8A driver output current.

The LEDS a two in series and two in parallel, so the current will be devided by 2?

If I change this, can I stay with the stock diode and MOSFET?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Sounds like you followed ledoman's posted formula from post#385 to calculate which sense resistors you'd like to use:



ledoman said:


> Good catch Archie! We need to open and inspect our lights. BTW, do you know what is U3 chip and it's feedback voltage? Normaly we are seeing something like 5421a or LEDA chip. This one is marked as MH8015 as far as I can see.
> 
> EDIT: never mind, I've found it HERE. Feedback voltage is 0.2V. So the current to the leds is calculated by:
> 
> ...


Yes, stacking resistors (placing in parallel) will reduce resistance thereby raising current. As ledoman says above, the current calculated will be divided in 2 because the LED's are wired two in series, 2 in parallel.

The FET and diode are rated "3A Max", so you *SHOULD* be ok. You might even "pot the driver" to help with heat generated. I simply applied thermal compound all over mine.



See my post#770 which might help you.

-Garry


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Thank you Garry.  Is there a fitting 5A diode in the smaller package like the stock diode? So the soldering become easier.

Should I use the other MOSFET and diode when I “only“ go to 2,8A to have some reserves?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It is always better to run things some degree below limits. Specialy the electronics which is heated. 
There is enough space to solder some bigger elements. Or you can stack them or solder it laying on side.


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## zerafael (Nov 25, 2015)

garrybunk said:


> I think a 3C tint matches best. 4C might be ok. For a torch, take a look at the Convoy lights. Smaller the reflector the floodier the beam. If you want some throw, consider the Convoy M1 or M2. I have 2 M1's built for helmet use. Velcro straps are all I need for mounting. I'd go either XP-G3 or XM-L2. XP-L should be fine too (by the way, you all see the XP-L2 is out?). Look at Mountain Electronics in the US (he ships international too) or FastTech. "Simon" on Aliexpress (sp?) Is head of Convoy I think.
> 
> -Garry


Thanks for the reply


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

There may be a smaller diode that handles greater than 3A but I'm not aware of it (I'm no expert). The SS54 I used isn't too awfully hard to solder in place.

I'd try it with stock components, but order the "upgrades" just in case so you have them on-hand. 

-Garry


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## lojden (Nov 12, 2016)

patski said:


> They're dual voltage, you just need a plug adapter, http://amzn.to/2ftWfQr
> 
> action-led-lights.com sells car chargers...


Sweet! Can i run direct power from the car charger to the lamp?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

You could run it directly from that charger if there was enough power. The one linked above has output only 0.8A so you can use only low mode. And of course you would need proper connectors (double female adapter).


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

Another question about this light, could you run 8 cells on it? Im not smart enough to know it it would work. I assume the voltage is relatively constant so the idea (for me) would be to get longer run times. Any help would be appreciated. I have the same light with 4 cells



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Sure, so long as you have them in a 2S4P configuration. And the more cells you use the more likely something will come out of balance. Also more important to use quality matched cells.

-Garry


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

Any recommendations for good sources? I was looking at KD's hard shell packs. I run a bt40s and a yinding. 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm . . . KD doesn't have an 8 cell Panasonic pack, do they? That would be preferred. Maybe Hunk Lee (FMA Battery) on Ebay? Make sure you stick to name brand cells.

-Garry


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

Right on. Probably honestly don't need 8, just me liking the though of plenty of extra run time. 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

KD has also 6 and 8 cell Panasonic packs as well. Just look at their page. Advertize is scrolling on their main page. If you can't find it see the battery threads.

Edit: I've used phone to answer, now I've behind comp, so here is link: http://www.kaidomain.com/Search/SearchResult.NCR/348


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

Thanks! I'll look into it 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ah they did have 8 cell packs. Couldn't remember and I wasn't in a situation to search for them.

-Garry


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Garry have you noticed a yellow ring around the beam of your G3 LEDs? I have seen some pictures where the ring was not very nice.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That's a cross between the optics/reflectors used and the tint bin of the LED. It's not exclusive to xpg3, all Cree LEDs if used with some optic or reflector will do it and some tint bins will do it.

A beam shot on a wall may not be great but I can guaranty for a bike light you'll like it a lot more than you think.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I've not used any XP-G3's yet. Still waiting to mod my 2nd one. 

-Garry


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

I thought you used the G3s for the BT40. My fault.

Are the some beamshots with G3s compared with G2 or XML-U2?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Best to check for beamshots over at Budgetlightforum.Com 

-Garry


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Ok. Thank you. I will check that. So what do think about upgrading a BT40 and a YinDing with G3s?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Bt40 will get a boost but not a lot unless you turn the driver up, yinding will be a pretty big downgrade in output. Xm-l2 is designed to run over 2amps, xpg3 is not.

On the binding, xp-l v6 is more of an actual upgrade.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

^^^ -- What tig said. XP-G3s will be a very slight upgrade, actually more so in terms of keeping the light in regulation longer. You won't notice an output difference without also boosting driver current (at least I doubt you'd notice).

-Garry


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

So the XPG3s upgrade for the BT40 is “only“ because they have a lower V_f than the XPG2? So the load for the modded driver is decreased?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Pinkman said:


> So the XPG3s upgrade for the BT40 is "only" because they have a lower V_f than the XPG2? So the load for the modded driver is decreased?


If "load" on the driver is referring to the Amperage the driver is providing the LEDs then the "load" will stay the same. The Watts consumed by the LEDs will be reduced.

With a current regulating driver, modded or not, lower Vf should give longer runtime. I say should because the lower Vf often reduces the driver's efficiency a bit due to the larger difference between Vin and Vf.


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## zerafael (Nov 25, 2015)

Do you know if there is a garmin mount that wee can connect to the BT40s?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Oh you will get more output (lumens) by upgrading to XP-G3's. It's just that it may or may not be enough to notice. 

-Garry


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## Weedling (Feb 28, 2008)

I just ordered two BT40s with the plan of running a handlebar / helmet combo, but reading this thread has now left me wishing I had ordered something with more throw for the helmet. (shame the BT21 isnt around)

My question is will I be able to use the battery pack from the BT40s with another kind of head unit, or do different brands use different connectors?
Options mentioned further back in the thread are ... 
The Solarstorm X3 and XT40
Glowworm x2 with spot optics
Yinding 900 with Ituo spot optics

Any suggestions are welcome, I'm just hoping that I am not 'stuck' with an extra bt40 and will have to buy another whole kit for the helmet. My local trails have some really fast and open sections and the idea of some long range throw really appeals to me.

Thanks guys


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

BT40S is good light for the bar but not so for helmet. Still you can use its battery pack with most lights outhere. You can sell BT40S or have it as spare and buy some Yinding or similar with more throw for the helmet.


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## Weedling (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks Ledoman, guess I will order another head unit and hope it's compatible unless anyone else chimes in with something that definitely is. It would suck to wait three weeks only to find the connectors are slightly different!

Sorry to lower the bar on the conversation here too. my head hurts after spending a few hours here! 
Thanks


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

There's nothing complicated about the connector. Even the Ituo threaded connectors work great (actually more secure).

These days really the only thing to watch out for is if the connector is male or female coming off the battery. That's the part that can screw you over.

Otherwise some of the bigger brands are a pain like that but these lights that aren't stupidly overpriced like nightrider, cygolight and such, are all pretty cross compatible.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Weedling said:


> Thanks Ledoman, guess I will order another head unit and hope it's compatible unless anyone else chimes in with something that definitely is. It would suck to wait three weeks only to find the connectors are slightly different!
> 
> Sorry to lower the bar on the conversation here too. my head hurts after spending a few hours here!
> Thanks


 Standard BT40s battery works with all my Nitefighter, Gloworm, Yinding, Gemini, Ituo, Magicshine, and Xeccon lights. Most common style battery connector.
Mole


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## Weedling (Feb 28, 2008)

Yay! thanks for that info. Exactly what I wanted to hear.


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Garry whats your feeling with the nichias? Do you like the tint? 

Are the XPG3 comparable to the Nichia 219CT?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, I like my Nichias. I'm very interested in comparing the 2nd light with XP-G3's although I don't plan to push that driver to 4A. I use my BT21 (assumed 3C tint) in conjunction with my BT40S with Nichias and that combo works well.

The XP-G3's have nearly the same low vF as the Nichias (at least in the current range we use them), but give sigificantly more output. See this test, particularly the first graph:
Cree XP-G3, testing a S5 3A emitter | BudgetLightForum.com

-Garry


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

I was thinking about creating some copper based PCBs for the BT40s. Are you guys interessted in such PCBs or do you think that is not necessary?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I know that 2A & under on a single emitter copper pcb's really don't make a difference. I don't know about a quad board though. I'm thinking it's not necessary unless people are boosting the driver. 

What's the projected cost?

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Copper honestly isn't worth it unless they are direct thermal path. That would give a small boost or help a lot for people that turn them up.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I was posting based on the assumption that Pinkman meant DTP.

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Yes, I like my Nichias. I'm very interested in comparing the 2nd light with XP-G3's although I don't plan to push that driver to 4A. I use my BT21 (assumed 3C tint) in conjunction with my BT40S with Nichias and that combo works well.
> 
> *The XP-G3's have nearly the same low vF as the Nichias (at least in the current range we use them), but give sigificantly more output. See this test, particularly the first graph:
> Cree XP-G3, testing a S5 3A emitter | BudgetLightForum.com*
> ...


It'd be interesting to see what a BT40S retro-fitted with XP-G3's would look like...assuming of course that a bin is available in the same CRI and temp. range as the current G2 emitter. Likely it wouldn't increase the throw much on boost but my guess is that it would definitely seem brighter when used on the lower output modes. Since the BT40S already works very well on the lower modes, having an upgrade in emitter output would only make it better. Of course if you increase the current coming from the driver and get some better throwing quad optics than one of these could give the dual XM-L2 set-ups a run for the money if used on the bars. ....:thumbsup:


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'll try to post up a comparison of stock vs. XP-G3 modded (emitter swap only) vs. XP-G3 w/driver boosted. I'll try to include sphere measurements too. Don't hold your breathe though as I'm quite busy and now heading into a busy time of the year. And once the snow starts laying around here beamshot opportunities won't be much good until about April.

-Garry


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> I know that 2A & under on a single emitter copper pcb's really don't make a difference. I don't know about a quad board though. I'm thinking it's not necessary unless people are boosting the driver.
> 
> What's the projected cost?
> 
> -Garry





tigris99 said:


> Copper honestly isn't worth it unless they are direct thermal path. That would give a small boost or help a lot for people that turn them up.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


I got the answer from the PCB manufacturer. LED PCBs with a copper layer thickness of 400µm would cost around 9 USD + work + shipping.

But I have to buy more than 50 pieces of it. What do you think?
Are there some measurements which show the difference between AL and CU?

Maybe the heat-management performance could be in increased while using serveral VIAs for vertical heat transfer.

@tigris: What do you mean with direct thermal path?


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> I'll try to post up a comparison of stock vs. XP-G3 modded (emitter swap only) vs. XP-G3 w/driver boosted. I'll try to include sphere measurements too. Don't hold your breathe though as I'm quite busy and now heading into a busy time of the year. And once the snow starts laying around here beamshot opportunities won't be much good until about April.
> 
> -Garry


Nice!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Pinkman, search for Noctigon or SinkPAD and you'll find the answer.


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

I will check that, but I think that should be possible.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

That's why you buy from Amazon, a friend's came without a battery, they shipped him a whole new package in 2 days and he got to keep the light head.

My neighbor got same day delivery here in Sacramento last week.

Its' called Revtronic now....  
Revtronic 1600 Lumens Bike Light



Lovespicyfood said:


> Darnit! Got my lamp but two of the four LEDs do not turn on.
> 
> 
> tigris99 said:
> ...


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## slug3135 (Nov 5, 2013)

patski said:


> That's why you buy from Amazon, a friend's came without a battery, they shipped him a whole new package in 2 days and he got to keep the light head.
> 
> My neighbor got same day delivery here in Sacramento last week.
> 
> ...


This wasn't my experience. I ordered a bt40s on amazon through revtronic direct. Either the light or battery were bad, it would go to blue (75% discharge indicator) in 30 seconds. Orange in 20-30 minutes. I had to pay shipping to send it back and still have not recieved a refund.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Pinkman said:


> I got the answer from the PCB manufacturer. LED PCBs with a copper layer thickness of 400µm would cost around 9 USD + work + shipping.
> 
> But I have to buy more than 50 pieces of it. What do you think?
> Are there some measurements which show the difference between AL and CU?
> ...


Pinkman, 
There are tests of copper pcbs, versus copper DTP pcbs, versus standard aluminum pcbs, & aluminum DTP pcbs. For understanding of what DTP means here is a quick link to some info I spotted during a search: Kaidomain copper mounted led's | BudgetLightForum.com . Here is a testing of the various boards (though missing Noctogin copper DTP boards: 6x 20mm XML-ledboard comparison | BudgetLightForum.com . Surprising result there with the cheap copper board that still has the dialectric layer. (Note: I did not thoroughly search for tests; this just happens to be a test I found quickly and know BLF user djozz is highly regarded and respected.)

-Garry


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Was it "fulfilled" by Amazon? If it's "fulfilled" by Amazon they should pick it up at your door.



slug3135 said:


> This wasn't my experience. I ordered a bt40s on amazon through revtronic direct. Either the light or battery were bad, it would go to blue (75% discharge indicator) in 30 seconds. Orange in 20-30 minutes. I had to pay shipping to send it back and still have not recieved a refund.
> 
> 
> patski said:
> ...


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## NWAtrailyguy (Aug 13, 2014)

Hey guys, I'm back for the latest info. I've read back a few pages, and so far it doesn't look too good. I see it's the same cast of characters hanging out in here, which is cool!

I'm still running a Xeccon S12 Two helmet, and a Yinding on the bars. I'm a little surprised by the Yinding recommendations for the helmet, because the throw and intensity of the S12 Two is MUCH higher. But alas, those aren't available any longer, and Xeccon is undergoing a pretty big transformation as I understand it. 

I have several people asking me about lights, and to be frank it bugs me to see people even considering going to the local shop and plunking down the cash for NightRider lights. I was encouraged to see the BT40s is now on Amazon in the form of "revtronic," but you guys are saying it's more of a flood for the bars. 

What would you guys recommend for a helmet light similar to the Xeccon S12 Two? I guess the BT21 would have been the solution, but it's no longer available either. It appears that finding even reasonably priced lights with good throw is a challenge at the moment! That's really the key here....a good bright helmet light, with a bar light just as a secondary source. Help?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Chinese lights aren't going to compare to decent stuff these days. That's why there aren't many worth the time anymore. They can't produce what we want in lights cheaply and have them worth a crap.

That's where the mid level brands come in. Cheaper than stuff LBS carries by far, quality same or better as is performance and warranty.

Biased here but Ituo is where it's at these days. Not cheap, but not over priced. 

Otherwise you just get to either pay outrageous amounts for lights that are only worth about the price of Chinese equivalents (aka nightrider, cygolight, etc) or play the Chinese lottery in hopes of finding something that's not a waste of time and money.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## NWAtrailyguy (Aug 13, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Chinese lights aren't going to compare to decent stuff these days. That's why there aren't many worth the time anymore. They can't produce what we want in lights cheaply and have them worth a crap.
> 
> That's where the mid level brands come in. Cheaper than stuff LBS carries by far, quality same or better as is performance and warranty.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update tigris. My first Chinese light experience was horrible, but you guys led me in the right direction with what I have now, so I wanted to check in here because I trust you guys. I don't care if you're biased or not!

One last favor. What models would you recommend from ituolights? Need a good helmet light with good throw that will hopefully fit Vancbiker's mounts that I already have, and a bar light that's not going to be the primary source and used more as a back up. Thanks!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

NWAtrailyguy said:


> ..... that will hopefully fit Vancbiker's mounts that I already have,


Unfortunately, the Ituo XP lights use a very unique version of my LoPro heatsink GoPro adapter. What you have from your old light will not fit directly. You could probably drill a couple new holes in it and get it screwed on to the light but the Ituo has a recessed pocket on the mounting surface that will hinder heat transfer when used with one of my other heatsink style adapters.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

depends on what you want to spend. XP2 has plenty of throw. XP3 is going to have the same beam pattern but its a bigger light so more lumens/throw. if the S12 was enough for you the XP2 would be good to go.

Ituo is on gopro mounts at least, but still hard to beat Vancs mounts if you live in a warm climate.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

patski said:


> Was it "fulfilled" by Amazon? If it's "fulfilled" by Amazon they should pick it up at your door.


When I purchased my 2nd BT40S through Amazon "fulfilled by Amazon" was not an option. Mine came direct from Nitefighter in China as a Marketplace seller on Amazon.

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

NWAtrailyguy said:


> One last favor. What models would you recommend from ituolights? Need a good helmet light with good throw that will hopefully fit Vancbiker's mounts that I already have, and a bar light that's not going to be the primary source and used more as a back up. Thanks!


If your looking for equal or better throw than your S12 I would go with the XP3. The S12 may have limited power but its large reflector allowed it to have a very narrowly focused but high intensity beam that made for some impressive throw distances. Small optic equipped lights with more power (XP2/3, Yinding, Duo, Gloworm X2/S) require considerably more power to achieve S12 like throw but also give you a much larger, smoother, better in every way (IMO) beam pattern. Comparing similar lights tested with a light meter the Ituo XP2 will be a better light in every way except max throw (still way more than adequate IMO/I own one) and provide a much better view of the trail than the S12. XP3 will have all the benefits of the XP2 (enhanced a good bit) plus enough power to out throw the S12. So if you think your using all the throw of your S12 than the extra cost of the XP3 is probably justified.
Mole


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## NWAtrailyguy (Aug 13, 2014)

Hey guys, as always I REALLY appreciate the help. You guys pretty well nailed it. I think the throw of the S12 Two is outstanding, but the spot is very small and at times I wish it was a little wider. I'd give up some throw and a little intensity for a little bigger spot/beam. I think the XP2 sounds like it would work fine for what we do here locally at night. This is going to sound odd, but we have so many opossums, armadillos, skunks, ground hogs, and especially deer out at night that I'm not willing to bomb down anything full shred anymore....WAAAY too many close calls.

Just to clarify, does it come stock with the GoPro adapter shown in the pictures of it on the handlebars? It looks to me like it would just screw right onto the mount that comes on my Bell Super 2R helmet. I also saw where you can choose the lenses. I would want whatever makes it the best on the handlebars. 

If you guys can get that cleared up for me, I'd like to proceed with purchasing one. Did you guys actually work together to design and market this light. It looks AMAZING and covers all of the bases. If you don't want the remote, you just unplug it? Genius.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yeap, the light is "out of the box" gopro mount compatible. The pics are straight up the bar mount and everything that comes in the box.

Stock optics are helmet set up basically. My set up for bars is a wide spot and a flood optic. Others like dual wide spots. My set up is still smoother beam with more throw than a yin ding. Dual wide spots is like the stock setup but with a much smoother transistion. Still a strong hot spot but not as narrow looking as stock optics.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> Pinkman,
> There are tests of copper pcbs, versus copper DTP pcbs, versus standard aluminum pcbs, & aluminum DTP pcbs. For understanding of what DTP means here is a quick link to some info I spotted during a search: Kaidomain copper mounted led's | BudgetLightForum.com . Here is a testing of the various boards (though missing Noctogin copper DTP boards: 6x 20mm XML-ledboard comparison | BudgetLightForum.com . Surprising result there with the cheap copper board that still has the dialectric layer. (Note: I did not thoroughly search for tests; this just happens to be a test I found quickly and know BLF user djozz is highly regarded and respected.)
> 
> -Garry


Thank you for sharing the links. So I guess it is not worth the effort, because up to 4A the cheap boards do their job surprisingly well?!


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

What do you think about Bikeray?
Bike ray New 1300 Lumens XPG LED bicycle light China (Mainland) Bicycle Light

Here are also some lights, I dont know: Buy Headlamps and get quick delivery with us - MultiTriathlon

Do you guys remember this light: BikeRay Ray-Fi 3000 Lumens - LightsLightsLights.co.uk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Pinkman, do not derail this thread, it's about Nitefighter BT40S. Open another thread or post here: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/new-cheap-o-chinese-led-bike-lights-2016-a-999426.html


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Bring me that








Not as much for better temperature as the mod Gopro bracket with cooling fins from vancbiker.


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

I also have the yinding mount and bt40s mount, as well as a bar mount from vancbiker, they are very nice, perfect fit. 

Also bt40s and yinding combo works great, for those of you trawling the thread for some practical info, I would be willing to bet this setup would work for 90% of you. I have yet to run into a situation where this light combo felt lacking. In fact I run it on low or med most of the time on the trails, and crank it for descents. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

I have two BT40S's, one from Amazon, one from GearBest. I run one on the bars, one on the helmet. They were working great until recently. One started just shutting off when the trail gets really rough. When it shuts off, you can turn it back on, but as soon as the trail gets rough again, it shuts off. So I left the bad one at home and started riding with the good BT40S and my old Yinding. Next ride, the good BT40S has the same problem! Has anyone else had this happen? It's not the battery, because the same battery connected to my Yinding doesn't have the problem. I unscrewed the back cap, and didn't see any loose wires on either light. 

Also another thing, both of my BT40S's emit a high pitched whining noise when they're on, which I just noticed. Do others' lights do this too?


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

I had that happen and the connector wasn't seat fully drove me crazy for a whole ride, some of them whine because of the drivers I've not noticed mine 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

zuuds said:


> I have two BT40S's, one from Amazon, one from GearBest. I run one on the bars, one on the helmet. They were working great until recently. One started just shutting off when the trail gets really rough. When it shuts off, you can turn it back on, but as soon as the trail gets rough again, it shuts off. So I left the bad one at home and started riding with the good BT40S and my old Yinding. Next ride, the good BT40S has the same problem! Has anyone else had this happen? It's not the battery, because the same battery connected to my Yinding doesn't have the problem. I unscrewed the back cap, and didn't see any loose wires on either light.
> 
> Also another thing, both of my BT40S's emit a high pitched whining noise when they're on, which I just noticed. Do others' lights do this too?


I'm going to assume the problem happens when on the bars. Too much of a coincidence that you are now having problems with both BT40 lamps. Could be you might have damaged the plug ends when disconnecting the lamp cords from the battery. If you have been disconnecting the cords by just pulling on the wires that would certainly do it. By that I mean you might have damaged the cord/plugs by creating an "intermittent disconnection" within the plug/wire juncture.

When disconnecting the battery/lamp plugs it is very important, "Not to pull on the wires but to grab by the plugs themselves and gently twist/pull apart. Pulling on the wire can create small breaks either within the wire or in the housing near the plug. Depending on how the wire is setting it might work fine for a while but suddenly disconnect itself when there is movement in the wire. Even if it disconnects for just for a moment the lamp will turn off.

To diagnose this you might try connecting the lamp to the battery, turn the light on and then start turning and twisting the wire on both sides of the plugs. If the lamp turns off while doing this then you need to figure which side of the plug has the problem, the battery side or the lamp side. ( likely in your case it's the lamp side ) Once you figure it out you can replace the plug and wire by buying another helmet extension cable and cutting it in half to use the side you need to replace. It requires some DIY skills but it shouldn't be too hard to do.

I'm also assuming you have no problem with the charger and that the battery has a full charge.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> To diagnose this you might try connecting the lamp to the battery, turn the light on and then start turning and twisting the wire on both sides of the plugs. If the lamp turns off while doing this then you need to figure which side of the plug has the problem, the battery side or the lamp side. ( likely in your case it's the lamp side ) Once you figure it out you can replace the plug and wire by buying another helmet extension cable and cutting it in half to use the side you need to replace. It requires some DIY skills but it shouldn't be too hard to do.





rad3144 said:


> I had that happen and the connector wasn't seat fully drove me crazy for a whole ride, some of them whine because of the drivers I've not noticed mine
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thanks guys for the suggestions. It turns out Cat's hunch was exactly the problem! I jiggled the wire near male plug (lamp side) and that made it shut off. I have never disconnected the plugs by grabbing the wires (as opposed to the plugs), but probably the wire was not the best quality to begin with, and just fatigued after so many hours on the trail.

While I have the lamp apart, I want to do something about the annoyingly bright LED battery life indicator on the switch. I was thinking either a sharpie pen to the LED's on the board (probably won't do much) or tiny dabs of high temp silicone on the LEDs. Has anyone successfully done this?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Another method would be to replace R1 and R2 resistors with some higher values. This would be permanent solution and you'll even save tiny bit of energy


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

zuuds said:


> While I have the lamp apart, I want to do something about the annoyingly bright LED battery life indicator on the switch. I was thinking either a sharpie pen to the LED's on the board (probably won't do much) or tiny dabs of high temp silicone on the LEDs. Has anyone successfully done this?


I've read several people comment on the bright battery life indicator on the switch before I bought my BT40s but I have to say it's well below my eyeline on the bars and I have to look down to even see it. I suppose everyone's bike setup is different but my Singular Swift rigid SS isn't that rad.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

OverTheHill said:


> I've read several people comment on the bright battery life indicator on the switch before I bought my BT40s but I have to say it's well below my eyeline on the bars and I have to look down to even see it. I suppose everyone's bike setup is different but my Singular Swift rigid SS isn't that rad.


Same for me. I've probably used it on at least 5 different bikes with same results. I notice the top mounted button on my BT21 far more though it's still not an issue.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

zuuds said:


> Thanks guys for the suggestions. It turns out Cat's hunch was exactly the problem! I jiggled the wire near male plug (lamp side) and that made it shut off. I have never disconnected the plugs by grabbing the wires (as opposed to the plugs), but probably the wire was not the best quality to begin with, and just fatigued after so many hours on the trail.
> 
> While I have the lamp apart, *I want to do something about the annoyingly bright LED battery life indicator on the switch. *I was thinking either a sharpie pen to the LED's on the board (probably won't do much) or tiny dabs of high temp silicone on the LEDs. Has anyone successfully done this?


I use black electrical tape on the back of the lamp to limit the brightness of the rear indicators. I do this to all the cheap Chinese lamps I buy. I allow just enough light for me to see which is up/down and that's it. If I were you I wouldn't apply anything directly to the indicator led's themselves as that might make them overheat and burn out.

It's disappointing to hear that the wires on the newer BT40S's might be cheap and aren't lasting. I've not used the ones I own a whole lot because I bought mine for hobby/review purposes. Happy to hear my suggestion was of some help though.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Heads up! My 2nd BT40S is showing lower current draws across all modes. I tested with various cells and different cases/packs and it's consistent. I'm only getting 1.34A max on Turbo whereas my 1st one was at 1.75A. Seems they tamed it back a bit (not sure why). I took sphere measurements for estimated lumens, but those aren't ready to post. Problem is I never took sphere measurements on my 1st one before mods. 


I've also not opened this one up to check sense resistor values to see if they're different yet. That will come within the next couple of days (I hope).

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Garry, please make pictures of this driver if there are some differencies. I have couple of them on order for my friends and I'm very interested seeing your findings.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Heads up! *My 2nd BT40S is showing lower current draws across all modes. I tested with various cells and different cases/packs and it's consistent. I'm only getting 1.34A max on Turbo whereas my 1st one was at 1.75A. Seems they tamed it back a bit (not sure why). *I took sphere measurements for estimated lumens, but those aren't ready to post. Problem is I never took sphere measurements on my 1st one before mods.
> 
> I've also not opened this one up to check sense resistor values to see if they're different yet. That will come within the next couple of days (I hope).
> 
> -Garry


I hate when stuff like that happens. The originals were already under-powered. Likely this was done by the new seller who didn't want people returning the lamps because of heat problems ( from people who don't know how to properly use LED lamps ).


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Cat, there is no new seller. My 2nd one came shipped again from Andy Wong (i.e. NiteFighter/Revtronic direct). Interestingly my local buddy just received a new Revtronic BT40S kit from Amazon ("fulfilled by Amazon"), so perhaps I can persuade him to let me at least take some current measurements. 

I'm not too concerned myself, so long as nothing else with the driver has changed and I can simply boost the current back up.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Pix of my 1st and 2nd BT40S drivers in stock form prior to mods (my first above, 2nd below, images clickable):

Button Side:

First:


Second:


Backside:

First:


Second:


So all I see is that U3 is different and that the 2300 FET looks smaller in the 2nd version. The power lead MIGHT be smaller, but I'm unsure. By eye it looks to be the typical 22AWG which when I replaced in my 1st unit made no difference in current from the pack.

-Garry


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks Garry. So question is: What is this U3 chip with markings "5820" and what is its feedback voltage and other specifications?

From what you have measured it can't be 0.20V as with previous one. 

How about leds tint, is it still the same?

Can you contact Andy directly about those issues.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I didn't pay much attention to tint, but I don't remember it appearing either really warm or really cool white. I can try to contact Andy. 

EDIT - email sent to Andy. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Great, I'm really curious about U3 datasheet and would love to hear the leds tint wasn't changed. 

From the pictures it can be seen version of circuit has not changed, it is just few (important) elements that are different. Previous U3 was MH8015, this one is 5820.


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ledoman - any chance you can find a datasheet for those two U3 components? (Sorry, I'm pretty busy.)

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Was already tried, but no luck so far. Asked Archie for help, too.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Archie helped me finding correct datasheet. It is CN5820 chip and it has *0.16V* of feedback voltage. With two R200 instaled you would get *1.6A* to the leds or *0.8A per led*. Pretty underpowered I would say. Adding R330 in parallel would raise the curent to 2.1A. Still bit low, but much better and bit above of previous batch.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

So it seems my 1.34A measurement is too low? By calculation I should be seeing 1.6A +/- at the battery pack? I could try just swapping the FET and see if that gives it a boost at all. I know it's the same "2300" but like I say it looks small.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

No, your measurment could be correct. It depends on what voltage it was. I was calculating current 1.6A to the leds not from the battery pack.

So 1.6A at let say 6.1V (2 leds in series) is almost 10W (9.76W). With some looses over the driver (assumed 90% efficiency) it should result in 10.8W. Dividing this with 1.34A gives you aprox. 8.1V at battery side. Those values are aproximation of course.

Anyway 10W to 4 XP-PG2 leds is pretty low ie. only 2.5W per led. XP-G2 are designed for up to 4.5W so here we are just above half of it.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Think I should measure current between driver & emitters? Thing is that I measured 1.75A on the first unit from fully charged packs, so I'd expect closer to 1.6A on this one.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Just received Andy's response to my email (copied below):

Dear Garry,

Thanks for your second purchase and deeply apologize for the inconvenient! I started investigation immediately when received your Email this morning.

1. Confirmed with our engineer , we have no change for the circuit board version; 
2. Confirmed with purchaser, the purchase order for U3 shows MH8015(See picture);
3. Confirmed with warehouse, it shows what we received is MH8015(See picture); 
4. Confirmed with QC, what he test is the function and burn-in test, not including measure the current and check the component name.

But when I check the remaing stock for " MH8015" in warehouse, i found it is 5820， then I realize we tricking by supplier: What we order is MH8015 but they delivered 5820 with packing looks same to MH8015， so our warehouse manager believe what we received is "MH8015". 
We already notified the supplier send us real MH8015， it may arrive tomorrow then we can test.

To solve this problem, is it possible to send a replace circuit board to you so that you can change by yourself? And any other buyer also can contact me for request a replace circuit board...

Deeply apologize again for this inconvenient! And look forawrd to hearing from you!

Best regards,
Andy

Some pretty good customer service I'd say.

Two photos he sent me:




-Garry


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## Lovespicyfood (Aug 4, 2012)

I guess I better check my unit...what's the easiest way to open this up?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The backside simply unthreads revealing a white plastic piece covering the driver. That white plastic piece is a little tough to pry out, but that's all you do is pry it out - it's not connected in any other way. Then you unscrew the o-ring mount on the bottom because you need to push the power cable in toward the inside of the light while pulling (carefully) on the driver to pull it out. Once the driver is out you can view the backside where U3 is. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

So here we are. I've just got another BT40S and shurely there is 5820 in place of U3 chip. But not only that, I've got different Q1 too. It is A2SHB mosfet. Found some datasheet for it. Can stand 2.9A continious current. Not that much. There are some differencies to the previous 2300 chip.

Picture of the driver part in question:














Comparing led tint to previous batch shows it is bit cooler I would say about 2C/3A if old one is 3C.

I can confirm Garry's current readings from battery pack, it is just 1.34A on Hi and driver produces some whinning sound on all modes except Hi (there is no PWM at Hi mode).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well that sucks. The last of the remaining decent cheap lights is headed down the same path. Switched to cooler tint to offset the appearance of what would have been lost lumens...

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yup, I don't like it as it is now. Ok, the rest of light seems still good, though, but I have not tested anything else. Should make tint comparation in a few days.....


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## Jimmy Kester (Nov 19, 2016)

Hi ho,

sorry for this off-topic question.

I've ordered two genuine CREE XM-L2 T6 (Cree XMLBWT-00-0000-000LT60*E3*).
http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/XLampXMBL.pdf

The seller (led-tech.de) told me that he got some CREE XM-L2 T6 (*E3*) with 4000-4300 kelvin. Well, and he told me that the leds have some differences.

Hmm, I thought *E3* will have *5000 kelvin*?

Can I trust him? 
(btw. I know the tint will change when the led gets really hot.)

*5000 K* *E3* 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D
_4750 K_ F4 3C, 3D, 4A, 4B
_4500 K_ E4 4A, 4B, 4C, 4D
_4250 K_ F5 4C, 4D, 5A1, 5A2, 5A3, 5A4, 5B1, 5B2, 5B3, 5B4
_4000 K_ E5 5A1, 5A2, 5A3, 5A4, 5B1, 5B2, 5B3, 5B4, 5C1, 5C2, 5C3, 5C4, 5D1, 5D2, 5D3, 5D4
_4000 K_ Z5 5A3, 5B4, 5C1, 5D2


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Anyone verifying that they deserve a new driver can contact Andy Wong at: [email protected] . He is shipping my replacement driver by way of Amazon as he says it's faster that way. 
By the way, Andy expressed interest in upgrading the BT40S to XP-G3's, but said they're not available in China yet. He also said about the BT21 or a similar light - "we will surely bring it back in 2017".

I wouldn't take that as a promise, but we can at least be hopeful.

I'm going to be checking my 2nd BT40S to see if it only turns off from the upper mode button and verify tint. I just remembered, I saw something I thought was strange while turning off the light. I noticed that when I would press and hold the button it would momentarily change mode before going off. It would however turn back on in the mode I was in when I first pressed the button. I know for sure because I saw my sphere readings as well as current measurements changing.

Oh, I almost forgot to publish my approximate lumen measurements. (Keep in mind this is with the "wrong" U3 and only pulling 1.34A max current). Current is measured between battery pack & lighthead on 4 fully charged cells:

Low - 255 Lumens @ 0.32A
Mid - 515 Lumens @ 0.66A
High - 790 Lumens @ 0.99A
Turbo - 1055 Lumens @ 1.34A

-Garry


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## Jimmy Kester (Nov 19, 2016)

Jimmy Kester said:


> Hi ho,
> 
> sorry for this off-topic question.
> 
> ...


Looks interessting...!

Convoy Lights: Option Comparison Tables and Images

Almost no difference.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> I'm going to be checking my 2nd BT40S to see if it only turns off from the upper mode button and verify tint. I just remembered, I saw something I thought was strange while turning off the light. I noticed that when I would press and hold the button it would momentarily change mode before going off. It would however turn back on in the mode I was in when I first pressed the button. I know for sure because I saw my sphere readings as well as current measurements changing.


This is what I would love you to check. This would also indicate they have changed user intereface somewhat. I've also noticed that behaviour. Though, there is mode memory involved and I'm not in the position to describe it in detail right now. Anyway I can turn light off only with bottom switch. Not that this is bad, you just need to know it (unless you have two BT40S to operate). And yes it changes mode prior to turn off. Maybe all this is intentional. We should check it with Andy.

Garry would you check it and report it back here and to the Andy?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok, checked my light and it DOES turn off using either up OR down buttons. And the mode change behavior while turning off happens with both buttons. Comparing tint to a known 3C I'm going to say my BT40S is also a 3C. Sorry Ledoman, guess you just lost the lottery.

-Garry


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

Anyone have any recommendations for better chargers for these? The one that came with is less than inspiring 


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

What's wrong with the current one, last I checked they were decent chargers.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

It works. Just basic feels flimsy


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

Was curious if someone made one with multiple leads and a digital gauge. I have one for two 18650s that shows voltage and has multiple charging options 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Thats how all chargers for bike lights are. Just a very basic wall charger. Alot of it is too that its a cheap light, everything about it is. They work, nothing wrong with them, just cheap and basic. There is nothing available for what your wanting to do because these packs are sealed. Your talking balancing system. Its not doable in the same sense as charging loose cells or Lipo batteries without modifications and knowing how to build a pack and utilize a balance system without removing water resistance or messing with the protection circuit.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> Ok, checked my light and it DOES turn off using either up OR down buttons. And the mode change behavior while turning off happens with both buttons. Comparing tint to a known 3C I'm going to say my BT40S is also a 3C. Sorry Ledoman, guess you just lost the lottery.
> 
> -Garry


Garry, I've checked again. I was not very precise. Now here is how my driver works:

- any button changes modes as they should (up or down)

- long press to turn light off it first changes the mode (down or up if not already at the edge Low/Turbo) and then:
- when in Low or Mid mode any button shuts light off
- when in Hi and Turbo only lower button shuts light off
- when in Hi and Turbo upper button works as:
- if in Hi mode then it switches to Turbo and stays there (no shut off)
- if in Turbo mode it stays there and nothing happens (no shut off)

Can you check it with yours? It depends at what mode light was when you have tried upper button.
Would love to hear also from guys who lately purchased this light.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> By the way, Andy expressed interest in upgrading the BT40S to XP-G3's, but said they're not available in China yet. He also said about the BT21 or a similar light - "we will surely bring it back in 2017".....
> 
> I wouldn't take that as a promise, but we can at least be hopeful.
> 
> ...


Would be nice to see the BT40S sold with XPG3 emitters. If the BT21 comes back that would interesting as well if it is upgraded. I'd like the 21's better if they were only three modes and were programmable.

Your lumen estimates for the current BT40S sound very close to the older ones I have so they should still make a good choice for bar lamp. Would be nice though if somehow they could notch up the juice to maybe 2 Amps ( max ).


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Cat, stock U3 has 0.2V feedack voltage and with two R200 you should get exactly 2A to the leds. So 2A was already used in the old one.

If you had in mind 2A from the battery this is different. Then we (they) need to add/change some sense resistors (ie. lower the reistance). Adding one R500 would result in 2.4A to the leds and aprox. 2A from the battery.

Ok. Let first resolve issues with U3 and Q1 and see what they have to say about higher current.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

FYI, I've made two pictures for tint comparation. I took 2 old lights and one new one. All have been set to Low mode.

Light from latest batch is in the middle:








On this picture it is on the right:








You can easily see the light in question has cooler tint.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

ledoman said:


> Garry, I've checked again. I was not very precise. Now here is how my driver works:
> 
> - any button changes modes as they should (up or down)
> 
> ...


ledoman,
Mine does not act like that. I just tried mine again and it will shut off from from any mode no matter if I use the up or down button. Even when I press-n-hold the down button while in Turbo it switches to high mode just before shutting off (but turning back on comes on in Turbo as that's what mode is set in memory).

-Garry


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Where have you ordered your lights? I received mine on Friday from gearbest, should I also check the components on the board?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Doesn't matter where you get them from, they all come from the same factory and likely to be the exact same

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yep, agree with tig. (My recent order was bought through Amazon ,from Revtronic/Nitefighter as a 3rd party marketplace seller.)

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> FYI, I've made two pictures for tint comparation. I took 2 old lights and one new one. All have been set to Low mode.
> On this picture it is on the right:
> View attachment 1109291
> 
> ...


Yeah, I see want you mean. Doesn't look as bright either.


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Ok than I need a other driver board too. Do they replace both elements on the exchange board?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

@Pinkman, I've purchased from Gearbest, too. It has been explained to me the mostfets (Q1) are apropriate so no need to be changed. It has nothing to do with the current to the leds. There are less important differencies, afaik. 

@Garry, the second one act as yours, so there has to be some other issues with the one I've got before.


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## slug3135 (Nov 5, 2013)

ledoman said:


> @Pinkman, I've purchased from Gearbest, too. It has been explained to me the mostfets (Q1) are apropriate so no need to be changed. It has nothing to do with the current to the leds. There are less important differencies, afaik.
> 
> @Garry, the second one act as yours, so there has to be some other issues with the one I've got before.


What about U3 5820(new) vs MH8015(old)?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

This has to be changed back to MH8015 to get 2.0A to the leds again.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> Doesn't matter where you get them from, they all come from the same factory and likely to be the exact same
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


I think that for most Chinese lights the components/suppliers can change pretty quickly. I have worked on "identical" MS lights that were bought within one month of each other yet had totally different driver boards.


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

So we could write Andy? a mail and we will get other driver boards?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, email Andy and let him know your recent purchase came with the MH5820 U3 chip and you need a new driver board.

-Garry


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

Theres some bt40s light heads on amazon right now, if anyones interested.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00E...AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=revtronic


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Staypuft1652 said:


> Theres some bt40s light heads on amazon right now, if anyones interested.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00EG8SCLG/ref=mp_s_a_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1481738658&sr=8-13&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=revtronic


Fullfilled by Amazon, perfect.


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I now have a BT40 as garrybunk upgraded, but only the board for more power without the thicker power cable and without the LED conversion on XPG3 or as with garrybunk on Nichia 219.
Only the board for more power!
But i see no difference?
Here fast times 2 pictures, left the tuned, right the originals!
I also want to solder the thicker power cable and exchange the Leds on XP G3!
But I get with all 3 BT40 the MCPCP board with the Leds not out, as if they were glued!
And without the MCPCP board with the Leds out of the housing, I can not exchange the Leds!
I have already tried the MCPCP from the rear driver push through and from the front with a screwdriver, but I do not get them out!
Who can help me? Thanks


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Is the battery maxed out? No matter what you do to the driver board, if the pack can't deliver the power you won't see a difference.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Perhaps the pcb is just stuck? You try to pry it up?

-Garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

How do I get the MCPCP board with the Leds from the housing?
I tried it with 3 BT40 but all 3 seated bombproof!
I want to install XP G3 Leds, maybe it brings a difference?
Garrybunk, what did you do at the Accupack, which there current more? 
Also interesting would be XP L Hi in the BT40 with the original optics?
Thanks


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

gecco said:


> View attachment 1110559
> I now have a BT40 as garrybunk upgraded, but only the board for more power without the thicker power cable and without the LED conversion on XPG3 or as with garrybunk on Nichia 219.
> Only the board for more power!
> But i see no difference?
> Here fast times 2 pictures, left the tuned, right the originals!


Try to make pictures with different shorter exposure times. It might be your eye doesn't see the diference, but the camera should if there is any.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

gecco said:


> How do I get the MCPCP board with the Leds from the housing?
> I tried it with 3 BT40 but all 3 seated bombproof!
> I want to install XP G3 Leds, maybe it brings a difference?
> Garrybunk, what did you do at the Accupack, which there current more?
> ...


Thinking about this again, can you get needle nose pliers around it and twist instead of pry? I think you'll have better success breaking the "glue" by twisting, as well as less chance of ruining the pcb.
Another thought - perhaps running it on Turbo to heat it up first may help. Just be careful not to touch the emitters while their hot.
What battery pack are you using? I'm using a custom made 2S3P pack with cells that have low voltage drop and a 20awg cable. 
Issue with XP-L or XP-L HI will be the optics abd how they sit/mount around the emitters.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

All I did to take it off was twist the PCB till it breaks loose from the thermal paste. Was easy enough with a jeweler screw driver. 

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

Mine just arrived, with an extra plastic o-ring mount even.


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

garry bunk I have so far only increased the current, that means the better light output is only due to the Nichia 219 installed by you, or has it with more current also what?
I could so far by current increase and the original XP G2 Leds no difference to the original BT40 determine!
Hope the new XP G3 bring what?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

gecco said:


> garry bunk I have so far only increased the current, that means the better light output is only due to the Nichia 219 installed by you, or has it with more current also what?
> I could so far by current increase and the original XP G2 Leds no difference to the original BT40 determine!
> Hope the new XP G3 bring what?


If your battery is unable to provide more power than the original configuration of the driver board, then modifying the driver board will not increase output.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

gecco, have you measured current draw off the pack? This conversation is pretty useless until we see measurements. 

My 1st BT40S has the Nichia 219C's and driver boosted for more current. I HAVE TO use a quality battery pack!

-garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I use partly the original Yinding batteries and the SolarStorm 2S2P 18650 Battery Case with 4x18650 Panasonic NCR 18650B Accus.Supply this enough power for the BT40 mod Lamp?
Why is the mod Bt40 with 40 percent current equal to the original BT40?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Ideally, you would measure the current draw from the battery before doing a modification to establish a starting point. Then after modification, measure current draw again to see if more current is being used by the light. Then if it is not, you must examine why. Did the modification fail (soldering trouble, bad component, etc.)? Is the battery not able to deliver additional power? 

I very much doubt that your Yinding battery can supply enough power to drive a modified BT40S. The 4 cell case with NCR18650B should be able to as long as the power cord is 22 or lower AWG, and all connections in the pack are good. Again, measurements are needed to verify correct operation.


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

I was starting to question whether this thing was neutral white, as it seems they've altered it from reading this thread, but sure enough, compared to cool white it is a few shades warmer. Now just if I had some studded tires....


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Staypuft1652 said:


> I was starting to question whether this thing was neutral white, as it seems they've altered it from reading this thread, but sure enough, compared to cool white it is a few shades warmer. Now just if I had some studded tires....


As I could compare with older one new tint is one stop cooler than it was last year. It is still much better than tipical CW most lights out there is using. I think it should be no issue with users who does not have warmer tints to mix.


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

ledoman said:


> As I could compare with older one new tint is one stop cooler than it was last year. It is still much better than tipical CW most lights out there is using. I think it should be no issue with users who does not have warmer tints to mix.


Thanks! Thats sort of what I was getting at.


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## sp00n82 (Sep 23, 2013)

So what's your take on buying the BT40S lighthead from Gearbest right now? Did they already replace all the faulty 5820 lamps, or are they just selling their stock anyway, and the correct 8015 lamps will slowly trickle back in?
Or is that batch the reason why there's currently a 26% discount on the lighthead?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

You can only guess unless you ask Andy and/or someone at GB. Discount has nothing to do with 5820 issue. As you can see almost all products are on discounts, it's just their way of doing business.


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

Granted I am not terribly knowledgeable, but I suspect mine is an affected one, and other than some weird ramping up, then down, then back up between the higher levels at least, its plenty bright anyway. Perhaps its missing a couple hundred lumens, but I'm good with it. It throws quite a bit better than what I was expecting from the reports.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

sp00n82 said:


> ......Did they already replace all the faulty 5820 lamps, or are they just selling their stock anyway, and the correct 8015 lamps will slowly trickle back in?


You can bet they'll sell the "wrong" lights as-is. Only a tiny percentage of buyers will know or care that they don't meet spec and ask for the replacement board.


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## sp00n82 (Sep 23, 2013)

Vancbiker said:


> You can bet they'll sell the "wrong" lights as-is. Only a tiny percentage of buyers will know or care that they don't meet spec and ask for the replacement board.


Yeah, the thing is I neither have the tool nor really the knowledge for replacing the board myself (i.e. soldered only about 2-3 times in my life, with no real clue what I was doing ), so I'd need the fixed version of the lamp, and not the DIY one.

Hm, I guess I'll go send an email to [email protected] to ask if they can somehow provide me with a working unit.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Staypuft1652 said:


> It throws quite a bit better than what I was expecting from the reports.


The affected units could very well have more perceived throw because of the beam pattern depending on your level of glare sensitivity. This light puts a lot of its light down close to the front of the bike and for me messes with my distance vision because of glare in turbo mode. I have more perceived throw in high mode or best if I put my hand flat under my nose to block some of the foreground light in turbo (not a safe or workable solution but notable).
Mole


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

MRMOLE said:


> The affected units could very well have more perceived throw because of the beam pattern depending on your level of glare sensitivity. This light puts a lot of its light down close to the front of the bike and for me messes with my distance vision because of glare in turbo mode. I have more perceived throw in high mode or best if I put my hand flat under my nose to block some of the foreground light in turbo (not a safe or workable solution but notable).
> Mole


I probably don't have lights any where near what you folks have, but this light reaches the better part of what anything else I have can. Your point is well taken though. Thats a different project for a different day.

Edit: Also as mentioned before, would be nice if they spaced high and turbo farther apart.


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

Mole, I reread your post, my bad. Yes because it has lower overall output its like the previous bt40s on high, but on turbo, so eyes are better able to see at distance because of lower light intensity in near field. Gotcha.


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

By chance does anyone know how many degrees this other lens is?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

No idea, but most everyone that has commented on it says it's way too wide for actual real-world use. Stock installed lens already verges on being too wide (some say it is already).

-Garry


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

garrybunk said:


> No idea, but most everyone that has commented on it says it's way too wide for actual real-world use. Stock installed lens already verges on being too wide (some say it is already).
> 
> -Garry


Thanks, thats all I could find out too.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

You won't need those wide lens for MTB usage. Might be good for something like closeup work, taking near object pictures, etc.... The original MJ-872 (BT40S is clone of it) has beam pattern somewhere in between or bit more on wide side. Once I had chance to test it and I found it's better to use it for taking pictures in caves than for cycling. Of course at the time it was designed there were not much afordable bicycle lights out there. Throw was not much disscused and we were using only half of overall lumens compared to nowadays. So different situation. MJ-808 with SSC P7 led was most used light at that time.


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

ledoman said:


> You won't need those wide lens for MTB usage. Might be good for something like closeup work, taking near object pictures, etc.... The original MJ-872 (BT40S is clone of it) has beam pattern somewhere in between or bit more on wide side. Once I had chance to test it and I found it's better to use it for taking pictures in caves than for cycling. Of course at the time it was designed there were not much afordable bicycle lights out there. Throw was not much disscused and we were using only half of overall lumens compared to nowadays. So different situation. MJ-808 with SSC P7 led was most used light at that time.


Yes, I was mainly curious. Was not aware mj-872 and bt40s had very different optics. I have surmised that it appears in the earlier days of mj-872 it had frosted optics, and some sellers differentiate a "clear" lens now but there is no evidence of such a change.


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Garrybunk
I have now a BT40 so converted as you.
But still without Led conversion.
I have seen no difference.
You have written with your dealer from USA because of new circuit boards because other components have been installed.
My 3 new Bt40 I have of Gearbest.
Are still original.Möchte synonymous again your conversion make this time synonymous with XPG3 Leds.
You wrote about new boards that sent you andi.
Could you please me with my 3 BT40 once to see whether I really only have to convert your components or whether any parts as with your from Andi also needs to exchange?
The photos or components are hopefully halfway to see.
Please take a look.
I numbered the lamps from 1-3!Perhaps you could write to me whether the boards fit? Thanks

Lamp 1 




















Lamp 2
































Lamp 3



















*[SUB][SUP]

[/SUP][/SUB]*

If one or more bulbs are affected you can call me the
component and by what I could replace it myself, my from
Gearbest.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm having a hard time understanding what you're asking. You want to confirm the components on your drivers match the original and do not need replacement drivers from Andy (Revtronic)? Which "U3" do you have? Which FET do you have?

I see you editted your post. Gotta run, but I'll check it again later.

-Garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I want to do the same mod as you.
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...-bt40s-cat-review-963636-16.html#post12845388
I have my BT40 from Gearbest.
Now I do not know if I only have to rebuild your parts or the U3 parts?
Does my U3 parts on the circuit board I get more current through?
Or are the U3 parts of the reason why I know no difference?
What should be the U3 parts on the board above?

Or are other parts on the board affected, so you
get new boards from Andy?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok gecco, your pictures are hard to read components on, but it appears that all 3 of your lights are using the "bad" U3 (the "5820"). I think yours also have a different FET (Q1). If I were you I'd contact Andy for 3 replacement boards giving him your order date from GearBest and maybe your photos. Q1 you could easily replace youself, but U3 would be difficult. It's unknown how this bad U3 acts, but Ledoman has had trouble with it and found the datasheet for it showing it handles a little less current. Details on which U3 is "good" and which is "bad" are posted two pages back.

-Garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Hello garrybunk
In my BT1 is a 2300 Fet with Q1, with Bt2 and Bt3 I have with Q1 A2SHB.
Which is the right one?

At U3 I have at all 5820!

What components do I need original that your tuning works?

Is the correct Q1 would be 2300 Fet and U3 NH8015 that your tuning works?



I thought that I would only make your tuning to make the lamp brighter, but the components intermix I find **** excuse!

Then I can get in touch with Andy.
Hopefully, Andy helps me because I did not buy the Bt by him
What parts do not fit with me!
Do you get only the parts or a new circuit board, what does it cost?
Thank you very much.


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## bamba (Dec 18, 2016)

Hi , could someone breifly explain what the issue is with these parts fitted to bt40s that may or may not be wrong . I have one on its way from gearbest.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

gecco said:


> In my BT1 is a 2300 Fet with Q1, with Bt2 and Bt3 I have with Q1 A2SHB.
> Which is the right one?


Any of those are OK. There are just minor differencies in current they can stand. But if you plan high current modification, then follow Garry's advices in changing Q1 mosfet and D5 diode to stay on working side.



gecco said:


> At U3 I have at all 5820!


Those are wrong and should be changed in order to get initial 2A current to the leds. With 5820 in place you get only 1.6A.

@bamba - read above or long story -> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...-bt40s-cat-review-963636-19.html#post12942328 onwards.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

gecco said:


> Hello garrybunk
> In my BT1 is a 2300 Fet with Q1, with Bt2 and Bt3 I have with Q1 A2SHB.
> Which is the right one?
> 
> ...


As ledoman said, the FET's should be ok for minimal power output (up to 3A I believe), but the U3 is wrong. U3 needs to be the MH8015. The FET's you can easily replace with a "2300" if you want to push more current or have more safety cushion.

If you contact Andy he should send you a full replacement driver board, not components. I don't believe it matters where you purchase from. I would just be ready to provide proof of your purchase, especially since you have 3 of them and are asking for 3 replacement drivers.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Received my new BT40S replacement driver from Andy Wong (he certainly gets 5 stars for customer service from me!). New driver is as expected with the correct MH8015 IC and 2300 FET.

Some pics:

Arrived well packed in an overly large envelope (US side did this - Amazon?):


Driver back with MH8015 IC and 2300 FET:


Driver front (should be unchanged):


Not sure when I'll get time to swap this driver in, but hopefully soon! Then on to stock current & lumen measurements then emitter swap only then boosted driver. It will take me awhile to get all this fit into my life schedule, but I will post up when I have each stage completed with measurements.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I decided to try out what ledoman did on his "wrong U3 driver" and see if I could duplicate his switch problem. So I added an R330 on to the existing (2) R200's. I measured 1.85A off my 6-cell pack @ 8.07v (not fully charged, but good enough). I did NOT have the switch problems that ledoman experienced; mine would turn off with either up or down button from any mode. I will say that the whining noise (which was very minimal in stock form) increased though. 

-Garry


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## bamba (Dec 18, 2016)

Received my bt40s this morning , all ok . First time ive had a warm tint led , as previously unaware and went off the advice off here that warm tint is better , just looks odd now compared to my helmet lamp, will see about changing that. 
Had a quick check inside the bt40s , and confirmed it has a 5820 u3 chip , how do i contact the guy to get the correct replacement driver , i have no problem fitting it. Thanks in advance.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

bamba said:


> . . . how do i contact the guy to get the correct replacement driver , i have no problem fitting it. Thanks in advance.


It's posted back a page: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...-bt40s-cat-review-963636-20.html#post12945426 . Just email Andy Wong that you have the driver with the wrong MH5820 UC chip. I'd provide a photo of it if you can as proof.

-Garry


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

garrybunk said:


> Received my new BT40S replacement driver from Andy Wong (he certainly gets 5 stars for customer service from me!). New driver is as expected with the correct MH8015 IC and 2300 FET.
> 
> Some pics:
> 
> ...


I received one of the new batch bt40s with the wrong components, and requested a replacement board. Got it today, packaged exactly the same. Good service.


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## bamba (Dec 18, 2016)

Got me a new driver on its way.
Thanks for the help.


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Would not be an upgrade to XPL2 HD for the Bt40 much more useful than XPG3?
Pity I have my 3 already on XPG3 rebuilt!
http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S026460.Cree-XP-L2-HD-V6-3B-Neutral-White-5000K-LED-Emitter

XPL2 Leds have far more than twice as much lumen as XPG3?

XPG2 have max 5 watts XPG3 have max 6 watts and XPL2 have max 10 watts!
If I would still increase the current with this would be a huge lamp, right?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, and it would be nice hand warmer


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I went down this road too. It's not worth the hassle of the emitters not fitting the optic. The optic would need widened to accommodate the larger dome of the XP-L2 and when you do that you will lose lumens due to scratching the optic (it's documented over at BLF).

Also, if you compare the posted BLF tests of the XP-G3, and the XP-L2 you will see there isn't much difference. According to those tests (remember, they are "bare emitter" tests) comparing at 2.0A I am seeing the XP-G3 output 840 lumens with a vF of 3.15v while the XP-L2 is only outputting 817 lumens at a vF of 3.06v.

-Garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

thank you
Then I was lucky again.
The one with the dome I almost thought it was scarce.


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

Deleted.


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## dougieb (Jul 11, 2007)

I've got a BT40s that I purchased about a year ago as a head unit only as I already had a couple of battery packs. I've been reasonably impressed with the light but the battery indicator is somewhat annoying as in turbo mode it goes to blue after a couple of minutes even with a fully charged battery (7.4v 5200mAh), it will then cycle through amber to red pretty quickly but actually run on red for a good length of time (still in turbo). I think the battery is OK as it works as expected (including the indicator) on my yinding helmet light. 

My understanding is that this behaviour is likely to be due to voltage sag and if I switch the light off, unplug the battery, then switch back on the indicator appears to provide an accurate reading. 

So my question to those more knowledgeable is

- Is this normal for the Bt40s ?
- Should I consider replacing the connector on the light unit with a true 22 AWG cable - will the address the sag issue ?
- Will better battery cells help

Any help / advice appreciated.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

It's normal, nothing is really going to help much.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I showed the driver board to a good friend and electrician.
He has already mod his BT40!

Instructions and photos by Rene.

The BT-40 driverboard with the 5820 Led Driver-IC is all so modalbe to any Current needed in the BT-40 project.

The big differences between the mh8015 and the 5820 is just the way it calculates the current.

The current (I) witch is driven over the Led and the current resistors (Rs) will be calculated with this formulary:

I= 0,16xRs. for the 5820

I= 0,20xRs. for the mh8015

And this is the big point.

For Rs=0,05 Ohm:

I=0,16x0,05= 3,2A

I=0,20x0,05= 4A

The lite which is emitted by the led is proportional to the current and so the 4A will give much more light.

To get the boards with the 5820 chip all so to 4A you have to reduce de resistance.

Rs=0,16/I= 0,16/4= 0,04 Ohm

I decided my lamp to run at about 3A --> 0,0533 Ohm

I've replaced all resistors with new ones because of same ratings and size.

These are the new vs. old parts.

1: MOSFET = AO3400 (A09T)

2: Resistors = 1/2W 0,3 and 0,27Ohm

3: Diode = SK54 fits better on the Print Board

Calculating the current sense resistor Rs:

Stacking 0,3 and 0,27Ohm

Paralleling two stacks:

My first try was with 0,071Ohm resulting in not that much light I've expected.

So I added a 5. Resistor in de middle of the two sacks to get near to 0,053.

Some pics from soldering:

With the resistors down to 0,056 Ohm I got near to 2,9A with a duty cycle of about 80%.

The 5820 isn't unable to drive LEDs with high power. It's more like he's a little bit more efficient than the Mh8015 because you loose a bit less energy on the currentresistors.
.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

dougieb - I replaced my 1st BT40S Power cable with 20awg and saw no noticeable difference. (After I heavily modded it, it probably helped.) 

gecco, glad to see you completed your driver modding. Did you swap LED emitters, or is that in the future?

-Garry


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

He has 1 BT40, I have 3 BT40.
He has already tuned his BT40 but the Leds are still original.
In my 3 are already converted the Leds (2 Bt40 with XPG 3 Led 4500K and 1 BT40 with XPG 3 5000K) but not yet tuned.

In the next few days, he will change the Leds, and mine will increase the current.

Thermal paste was exchanged for MX4, a thicker cable was soldered between the board and the driver and a new 20AWG-Extension-Cable was soldered.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

dougieb said:


> I've got a BT40s that I purchased about a year ago as a head unit only as I already had a couple of battery packs. I've been reasonably impressed with the light but the battery indicator is somewhat annoying as in turbo mode it goes to blue after a couple of minutes even with a fully charged battery (7.4v 5200mAh), it will then cycle through amber to red pretty quickly but actually run on red for a good length of time (still in turbo). I think the battery is OK as it works as expected (including the indicator) on my yinding helmet light.
> 
> My understanding is that this behaviour is likely to be due to voltage sag and if I switch the light off, unplug the battery, then switch back on the indicator appears to provide an accurate reading.
> 
> ...


As Garry responded 22AWG to the light might be suficient because the cable is short. Shurely 20AWG would be better, but the effect would be very small.

On the other hand, you didn't give any info on battery pack except nominal capacity. There are some things at battery pack side that have influence on voltage sag:
- cable AWG and length (I would suggest 20AWG on this side)
- protection circuit resistance (tipicaly more current they allow, less resistant they are)
- cells used. They have different voltage curves. See comparation picture of Sanyo 2600 and Panasonic 3400 below. Sanyo has better curve, unfortunately it has less capacity
- (un)balanced sets of cells
- worn out cells has higher internal resistance and higher voltage sag 
- temperature when used
- battery pack construction (welding is better than springs in Solarstorm bat. cases) 
- number of cells in parallel

Any of those things have some influence to the voltage sag.

Comparator from HKJ page:


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## dougieb (Jul 11, 2007)

Gary / Tigriss99 - thanks.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gecco said:


> He has 1 BT40, I have 3 BT40.
> He has already tuned his BT40 but the Leds are still original.
> In my* 3 are already converted the Leds (2 Bt40 with XPG 3 Led 4500K and 1 BT40 with XPG 3 5000K) but not yet tuned.*
> 
> ...


Gecco, so what's your opinion of the BT40S with XPG3's 4500K vs. the 5000K? The 4500K should definitely be more warmer but since the G3's put out a bit more light I would think it would be more like the originals ( tint wise ) which I personally would prefer.

Would be nice if I could get one of mine retro-fitted with the G3's/4500K's.


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## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

If they are finished mod I will make comparative pictures of the 4500k and 5000k. But you are right, more light makes the 5000k, 4500k noticeable
warmer light.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Bt40s on sale at gearbest, $43.99 Nitefighter BT40S Cree XP - G2 1600lm LED Bike Light Mini Neutral White Mountain Bicycle Headlamp-48.48 Online Shopping| GearBest.com 
Code:BT40SYY


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## sva7 (Feb 9, 2017)

I received a new board but I'm not sure if it is ok and assembled with right parts?
Q1 seems right with "2300"
U3 can't be identified and is covered in some kind of glue.

I am curious, what my contact at rev-tronic.com will answer. What do you guys think?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Very likely it is OK. It is not "glued". Try to wipe the flux with alcohol or just lightly scratch it. You can try it out on other spots where you can't do any harm.
Based on Q1 I would say you've got correct U3.


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## sva7 (Feb 9, 2017)

thanks for your help, ledoman!

I wrote an Email to rev-tronic asking the same and not even one hour after sendig it, Jack of rev-tronic already answered.
He wrote, that "it is scaling powder remaining when our colleague change it" and no kind of damage.

I am impressed by the guys of re-tronic. They are relly kind, react to emails almost immediately and offer a great service.


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## bamba (Dec 18, 2016)

Mine arrived the same , q1 2300 and u3 not readable. Not fitted it yet.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Best bt40 ride*











My glare sensitive eyes and the BT40s beam pattern have not worked very well together. Beam patterns limited throw + a lot of foreground light left me with a light that had more perceived throw in high because turbo caused way too much glare directly in front of the bike that I couldn't see beyond. Multiple times I noted how much better the BT40s worked for me if I blocked the foreground light with my hand and this is a workable solution I've come up with. Initial ride results are promising but more experimentation will be required to obtain best results. Plan on using automotive tint film instead of the white cloth tape when I figure the best amount of coverage which should look less strange.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Interesting solution there Mole.

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> garrybunk said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting solution there Mole.
> ...


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

MRMOLE said:


> > Quite happy with results so far. I can see farther and my eyes are more relaxed. Strange not being able to see the front wheel though. Reminds me of when I got my first fared sport bike (motorcycle) which I got used to. Wasn't a problem on the flat dirt trails I tried it out on last night but not sure how it will work on something more technical. Hopefully the auto tint film will allow me to see a little of the terrain around the front wheel and still cut the glare down effectively. We'll see.
> > Mole
> 
> 
> I'm glad you found a functional workaround for your glare problem Mole, pretty clever idea.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I would think tint film would work; you just need to get the right shade of tint to get the best results. 

-Garry


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

MRMOLE Eyeware, patented night riding technology! $99.99 plus $20 shipping!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

You should try reflector based lights. Put the most light down the trail aways with just a bit of spill so the foreground is not completely dark. I'm right with you on not liking a too bright foreground.


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## Pack66 (Jul 7, 2015)

Hi all,

I just recently placed an order for the BT40s from Amazon (blue colored housing/$49 shipped). I had a gift card I needed to use up. I just came across this thread. Is there an issue with driver board for the latest version of this light? I have a night race coming up and this will be a back up light for me.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK we have never seen blue housing. Hard to say from which batch it is. I would advice to open it and inspect the driver for correct U3 chip. It should be marked MH8015.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

We have no idea when the "correct drivers" will make it back through the distribution channels. It's possible that Revtronic pulled the "bad ones" from Amazon and replaced with the "good". 

There won't be anything really wrong with one that has the "bad" driver other than lower output (and I posted lumen measurements not long ago showing how much difference). If you have soldering skills it's pretty easy to just add sense resistors to boost it back up.

Do you have a link to this "blue" one? Never heard of it in any other color than black.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Whoa! The BT40S *IS* available in blue on Amazon!



















-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> ...My glare sensitive eyes and the BT40s beam pattern have not worked very well together. Beam patterns limited throw + a lot of foreground light left me with a light that had more perceived throw in high because turbo caused way too much glare directly in front of the bike that I couldn't see beyond. Multiple times I noted how much better the BT40s worked for me if I blocked the foreground light with my hand and this is a workable solution I've come up with. Initial ride results are promising but more experimentation will be required to obtain best results. Plan on using automotive tint film instead of the white cloth tape when I figure the best amount of coverage which should look less strange.
> Mole


MrM, I'm surprised to hear you have a problem with glare using the BT40S ( assuming you are using the standard optic ). Are you using one that is modded? The only time I ever had a problem with glare using the BT40S lamp was when I tried to use two BT40's at the same time ( on high ).

If it's really that much of a problem that you feel you need to use tinted glasses or shields than you probably need to use another type lamp as a bar lamp. It doesn't sound safe to me to use something that actually limits your field of vision. I would suggest either one of the Wiz lamps or the Gloworm X2 fitted with spot optics and ordered with NW LED's. That said you might consider going to the next warmer level of LED ( 4500K or less ) for the lamp you use on the bars.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Hey Cat,*

It's not that the glare creates such a problem that the light is unusable, I've just noted that I see much better when blocking the majority of the foreground light. Tape was just for preliminary experimentation and plan on using tint when I get a chance to pick some up. Should still be able to see some trail detail just cut down on the glare like sun glasses in the daylight.

Also I agree that this light layout is not the best bar setup for me. All the suggestions you made have been tried by me and do indeed reduce reflection induced glare. Preference currently would be XP2/X2/BT21 with the elliptical style glowworm optics.

Actually in the end I hope to not only improve my vision with the BT40s but maybe to a lesser degree see improvements with any bar light I use, especially the more powerful ones. It's just an experiment that may or may not work and worst that can happen is it gives me an extra excuse to go for a ride.
Mole


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

MRMOLE said:


> It's not that the glare creates such a problem that the light is unusable, I've just noted that I see much better when blocking the majority of the foreground light. Tape was just for preliminary experimentation and plan on using tint when I get a chance to pick some up. Should still be able to see some trail detail just cut down on the glare like sun glasses in the daylight.
> 
> Also I agree that this light layout is not the best bar setup for me. All the suggestions you made have been tried by me and do indeed reduce reflection induced glare. Preference currently would be XP2/X2/BT21 with the elliptical style glowworm optics.
> 
> ...


The experimentation is the best part.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Try one of those KD xhp70 lights in 4k. I used one for a few rides, even though the beam pattern is not ideal, the color temp is freaking great. Very little glare....


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## Stark (Apr 29, 2008)

The BL70 is very bright at the front wheel. Doesn't bother me, but still.
I think a gloworm with one wide optic is a better choice. 

Peace!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

So this past weekend I finally swapped emitters in my 2nd BT40S - swapped out the stock XP-G2's (+/- 4C tint @ 4,200k to 4,500k) for XP-G3's from Mouser listed as "4000k". I've been taking measurements the entire time during the evaluation and replacement of the "bad" stock driver to the "good" replacement driver, first with stock LEDs and now with the XP-G3's.

I had a big goofup when I first reflowed the XP-G3's. I reflowed all the XP-G3's in reverse polarity and when I fired it up nothing happened. I learned that the little black "dot" at the top corner of the emitter is NOT a polarity marking, but just some reference mark that Cree doesn't even acknowledge. The black "dot" shows up in the following photo:



For anyone attempting an emitter swap, the proper way to determine polarity is to look at the underside for the "triangle" in the green stripe (area between the "pads") as seen here:



The triangle points in the direction of the "cathode" (negative contact). You don't need to understand anode and cathode, just be sure to put the side with the triangle on the same side as the emitter that you remove.

Now on to the "tint evaluation". I bought these from Mouser listed as "4000k". My favorite tint is a 5B1 which is "4200k", but mouser only had 4000k and I think 5000k (at least at the time I ordered). I've had very little time to evaluate the tint and haven't been able to get outside with it at all. I basically rushed right from emitter reflow to white wall pics. (Please excuse the nasty basement "white wall".)

I'm not sure how exact these pics are showing tint, take them more as a relative comparison (I don't think they're that bad though). I took these with manual camera settings, manual white balance, and sped up the shutter speed so the photos weren't washed out with bright spill. The lights also don't have matching output levels and have different beam patterns. The same light might look different in each photo due to my selecting a different shutter speed (I tried to pick photos that best showed tint difference for each set). In the first pic the tints are as follows from left to right: 3C (4700-5000k), 4C (4200-4500k), 5A2 (+/-4200k - slightly "rosier" than the 5B1), 5B1 (4200k), and below all of those is my 2nd BT40S with new 4000k XP-G3's.



In this 2nd pic on the left is my 2nd BT40S with 4000k XP-G3's and on the right is the 5B1 (4200k):



In this 3rd pic on the left is my 2nd BT40S with 4000k XP-G3's again and on the right is my 1st BT40S with Nichia 219C's @ 5000k:



I took sphere measurements too, but I need to work those up so I will post those at a later time.

-Garry


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

Appreciate your work Garry.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Interesting. Good work. Good as comparation but does your camera has custom White balance adjustment feature set with sheet of white paper? I'm asking as I'm shure in reality 3C (5000K) is not so white. Someone looking those pictures might get wrong impression.
Of course, just as an suggestion.....


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Man that looks nice and warm, good stuff gb.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

ledoman,
My camera does have some sort of custom white balance option, but I don't know how to use it (seems to want some settings chosen, not point to something white). I do know what you mean about setting it pointing it at a white sheet of paper as I used to do that with a TV stations video camera when we used to go out filming football (American football) highlights for use during the evening sportscast. (WNEG Ch32 in northeast GA, no longer in existence) We'd lose the white balance on the camera and either turn to a white paper on a clipboard or the referee's rear end since they were wearing white pants. (There we were in front of hundreds, maybe thousands of fans down on the field pointing a video camera at the ref's butt!)

I do think that 3C looks pretty realistic to what I saw. To me 3C hardly looks neutral, more like a fainter/paler cool white. The 3C @ 5000k should also match the Nichia 219C's which are also 5000k and I'd say that Nichia pic looks realistic with what I saw.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I have Panasonic camera and I know Canon have this feature too. Maybe not all models of camera. Besides classical settings I can choose K in steps of 100 and 2 custom setings named "White Set" 1 and 2. When choosing that setting I get some central window to point on white paper. Camera then adjust WB so that paper appears white in that particular light envirnoment. Yes you understand it correctly.

Ok C3 might appear more yellowish when looked alone. Eyes are adopting to that situation similar to camera and C3 appears more white when looked besides other warmer tints.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm using a Panasonic camera too - DMC-ZS7. I'll see if I can get time to look into it soon. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

See page 98 of cameras manual


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

ISO200 
EXP. 1,6s 
APERTURE F4.0 
W/B Daylight


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

ledoman said:


> See page 98 of cameras manual


Thanks, found it. I MIGHT try again after trying to manually set white balance. The white balance setting I've been using is the one called "Outdoor, clear sky". And I've left ISO at 400 which is what I use for outdoor beamshots.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Last nights weather was decent and I had a few spare minutes so instead of working up my lumen measurements I ran outside to grab some beamshots. It was 25ºF out and I was not wearing gloves so my fingers were getting numb and I was having a hard time pressing little buttons on the camera. There was still a light covering of snow on the ground which I now believe (after reviewing the photos) affected the photos making them appear brighter than things actually appeared (especially in higher modes). Not a huge difference from "true", but still brighter. I thought about changing my shutter speed to compensate but I didn't want to move away from my consistent "standard" settings I've been using. These will have to do. I also should have taped over the bright battery indicator light. I'd say the tint is still well represented. It's very slightly "rosy", but not as rosy as my XP-G2 5A2 tint (which I don't like due to it being so "rosy"). I would prefer the tint be just a hair higher K around 4200k rather than 4000k, but it's acceptable to me.

So here are a bunch of photos starting in Turbo and progressing down to Low (click image to go to enlargement):

Yard shot (distance to the two trees is approx. 185 feet, approx. 275 feet to the house off to the left of the trees):









Now to my wooded setting:









I then moved the camera up (to get the light out of view due to the bright battery indicator) and left the light at the same location:









For comparison, here are shots of my 1st BT40S in original stock condition in Turbo (different dates & conditions):





-Garry


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

As I said previously

Mtbr standard for light test night shooting is:

ISO200 
EXP. 1,6s 
APERTURE F4.0 
W/B Daylight


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

bhocewar said:


> As I said previously
> 
> Mtbr standard for light test night shooting is:
> 
> ...


I realize that. If I get a chance perhaps I'll try those settings. I think I tried them in the past and found that they didn't accurately represent what I actually saw. A shutter speed of 1.6s sounds too slow though (i.e. causing brighter than normal image).

My current standard has been:
ISO 400
EXP 1/1.6 (0.625)s
APERATURE F3.3
W/B "Outdoor, Clear Sky" (which I believe to be same as "Daylight")

-Garry


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Try those "mtbr standards" and compare. Beamshots should be less bright due to lower ISO despite the longer exposure. Check out the term "exposure triangle"


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I just got back in from taking new photos with the MTBR settings (and less snow producing less glare). On the camera screen they do look very realistic. I even zoomed in to compare what I could see in the distance. It won't be until tomorrow that I can download, compare, and post them. I will say my attempt at manual white balance was a fail again! I stuck with my usual setting which looks good to me.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok, revised pics taken with "standard MTBR Camera Settings" with less snow on the ground for less glare (not sure comparison between camera settings can be very accurate due to glare from snow in first set). As stated in post above, these pics do look very realistic with what I saw. Same order, Turbo to Low and images can be clicked to get to an enlargement. I added a "control" shot in the yard. There was a porch light on at the house in the distance. Oh, and I covered most of the switch for the battery indicator light this time.



















Now my comparison to the "original" stock (xp-g2) beamshots is void due to the camera settings change. Actually the best comparison is using my beamshots from two days ago because they were taken with the same settings as the "original" (even if they do appear brighter than reality).

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I finally worked up my lumen measurements from my D.I.Y. foam sphere. My sphere measurements hold very consistent on my current regulated "calibration check lights" (which I measure each time to verify consistency), but I don't own enough lights of "known value" to know how accurate my measurements are (the one Fenix light I calibrated too works well between its 4 modes), but I do feel the values are within a reasonable range.

Original, "bad driver" at 1.34A max current draw:
Low - 250
Med - 505
High - 770
Turbo - 1030

"Bad driver" boosted to 2.1A
Low - 300
Med - 610
High - 925
Turbo - 1235

With Replacement Driver (Stock 1.75A)
Low - 300
Med - 615
High - 915
Turbo - 1205

With Replacement Driver (Stock Current) & Emitters Swapped to XP-G3
Low - 340
Med - 675
High - 1010
Turbo - 1350

My 1st BT40S w/Nichia 219C's @ 4.0A
Low - 505
Med - 1050
High - 1550
Turbo - 2110

It seems a little odd that the "bad driver" boosted to 2.1A yields about the same outputs as the "correct" replacement 1.75A driver. I wonder if there is more to that wrong U3 chip than than just a different sense voltage? 

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> It seems a little odd that the "bad driver" boosted to 2.1A yields about the same outputs as the "correct" replacement 1.75A driver. I wonder if there is more to that wrong U3 chip than than just a different sense voltage?
> 
> -Garry


I see what you mean but honestly if you only added another 0.26A your equipment might not be able to pick-up the difference in intensity. More importantly, if your eyes can ( or can't ) tell the difference then it doesn't really matter what the sphere is telling you.

I liked the photo's you did with the new XP-G3's. I think going forward 4200-4500K temp/tint should probably be the sweet spot for lamps like the BT40S. If you can get XP-G3's in 4500K's I'd like to see how they compare to the originals ( as well as the 4000K's you currently have ).

I see you have one of your lamps modded to 4A with the Nichia's. Wow, output almost twice that as a stock lamp. Since I didn't like the output when I tested two stock lamps at once I don't think I'd want more than the stock driver ( in one lamp ) along with an upgraded emitter ( like the XP-G3 ). Sometimes too much of a good thing turns out to be not as good as what you were hoping for.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> More importantly, if your eyes can ( or can't ) tell the difference then it doesn't really matter what the sphere is telling you.


Exactly - a difference of say 100 lumens isn't going to be worth the upgrade; your eyes won't see it.



Cat-man-do said:


> I liked the photo's you did with the new XP-G3's. I think going forward 4200-4500K temp/tint should probably be the sweet spot for lamps like the BT40S. If you can get XP-G3's in 4500K's I'd like to see how they compare to the originals ( as well as the 4000K's you currently have ).


Are you saying you like the photos showing 4000k so that you know it's too warm for your liking and that you'd rather stay up at 4200k to 4500k? I do see Mouser has 4500k XP-G3's in stock (and the same S4 bin 70CRI as the 4000k's I initially bought). I don't think I'm going to change them out again though unless I determine through actual use that I don't like them. I did consider getting rid of the stock aluminum pcb and put 4 trimmed down Noctigon copper DTP boards in there, but I don't think it'll be worth all that hassle at +/- 3A driver current (1.5A per emitter).

About 4200k vs 4500k, I will say that in my EDC flashlight I saw a very noticeable difference going from a 4C (4500k) to a 5B1 (4200k).



Cat-man-do said:


> I see you have one of your lamps modded to 4A with the Nichia's. Wow, output almost twice that as a stock lamp. Since I didn't like the output when I tested two stock lamps at once I don't think I'd want more than the stock driver ( in one lamp ) along with an upgraded emitter ( like the XP-G3 ). Sometimes too much of a good thing turns out to be not as good as what you were hoping for.


Exactly. I've said it before, it's more of a wow factor and not so usable. That's why I'm only aiming for +/- 3A on this 2nd unit. I've also shared these photo before, but here they are again - Nichia 219C's 5000k tint at 4A (2A per emitter) for +/- 2100 lumens (NOT the standard MTBR camera settings):





-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

So I managed to get some time to boost the driver on my 2nd BT40S. I chose to add (2) R330's on top of the (2) stock R200 current sense resistors yielding 3.21A calculated output. I also replaced the stock "2300" FET with an "A09T" FET and replaced the SS34 diode with an SS54 (same replacements I did on my 1st BT40S). To clarify, these mods were performed on the correct replacement driver I received. I had already upgraded the power cord to a 20awg one. Leads to the emitters look sufficient so I left those alone. This time I took current measurements at both the battery pack side and at the emitters. I'm seeing 3.36A at the emitters max. I believe this is a nice current regulated driver as output current remains very steady even though input current fluctuates quite a bit (I didn't test long though), this also shows in my sphere measurements where I see pretty steady output. I have not taken beamshots or new sphere measurements yet, but hope to in the very near future.

Some pics, description above (clickable):

Stock driver:



Notice the size difference in the SS54's I bought from Mouser (left) versus the ones I ordered from China (right):



Components replaced:



Current measurements (current & voltage off pack on meter to left, current to emitters on meter to the right):

Off:



Low:



Med:



High:



Turbo:



Driver "potted" for reassembly (just some extra insurance):



Small piece of electrical tape added to the inside of the button (I tried a long strip all the way across the button, but the result was too dim; this works well):



Result on button light:



Finished product (DX aluminum mount too):



Stay tuned for beamshots and sphere measurements!

-Garry


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## Nahooter1 (Feb 18, 2017)

Great information! Thanks!


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Great job gb! 4k looks sweet.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

BEAMSHOTS! I took these last night on a full-charged pack with standard MTBR settings used previously. I now believe the colors are coming out more vivid than reality and not much I can do about it (at least they're consistent). The grass is not as green as it appears in the photos. The tint comes across to me as being very neutral and not "rosy" at all - color rendering looks very good. This light now blasts out a LOT of light! The increased output is really only noticeable in the wide open (my yard pics). In the wooded pics you don't see a lot of change up close, but if you look closely in the distance you can see additional throw (it would be nice if I had a wider view to the distant trees).

"Control" pic to start, then progressing from Turbo down to Low. Images clickable. As stated previously, distance to the two trees is approx. 185 feet, & approx. 275 feet to the house off to the left of the trees) NOTE: I forgot to resize these images for forum use; sorry if that offends you.



















And I tried a pic from my cell phone set to "Night" mode with manual white balance to try to capture tint better, but I think this one came out too rosy and dull (don't judge output from this pic at all):



Next up comes sphere measurements when I get a chance (hopefully tonight).

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

For comparison, here's Turbo from "XP-G3, stock driver" with Turbo from "XP-G3, boosted driver" below it (more of a "side-by-side" comparison):




-Garry


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Looks to be quite a boost in output, look out Gemini Olympia.! I have to watch your video on swapping emitters again. Got a cool white KD bike light I gotta get changed to 4000k. Has to be rewarding to get that kind of improvement GB. Nice!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks DR. I'm expecting my lumen numbers to not be far below the Nichia 219C's at 4A since the XP-G3's have more output. According to tests by others, the XP-G3 outputs about the same lumens at 1.5A as the Nichia 219C does at 2.0A. So when I said I was going to tame down the output from 4A since the Nichia modded light was just a "wow" light and too bright, I actually created a very similar light! I had the thought/temptation to boost this one to 4A too just to see how many lumens I could get out of this thing, but I did want a "practical light" and not just some "wow" toy.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm . . . Took my sphere measurements this afternoon but I'm seeing something really goofy going on. #'s on low & med look good (significant increase) however high only shows a slight increase while Turbo shows less! (Comparing to stock driver prior to boost). I duplicated the results while testing for bad connection at the DC power plug & while connected to an Ammeter so that I could see amps pulled from the pack (which are still at "boosted levels"). I then noticed on Turbo & High that at first turn on there is a much higher lux reading that drops instantly (though on Turbo it's still not as high as I'd expect). It's like something is trigger the level to drop. It can't be a temp. sensor as this occurs immediately from cold turn on. I then connected up my 4A Nichia BT40S (to same 6 cell battery pack) and saw numbers I expected (way higher than readings on the other one) and slowly declining as expected, not instantly dropping.

Any ideas anyone? Why would current pulled from the pack remain high, while lumen output drop like a rock to a lower level (which BTW it holds fairly steady at)? I'm perplexed!

It also seems odd that the beamshots posted do seem to show an increase, but I'd say take them with a grain of salt for now.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It dawned on me that I never looked at the front of the light while testing for this "problem". Well I just checked and sure enough 2 of the emitters are either dimly lit or not lit at all (light from the other two may be coming through the optic making it look like these two are dim). This could explain the increased throw since it's likely driving the two emutters much harder (i.e. 3.2A meant for 4 is now going through 2). I wonder if it heated up enough to desolder the 2 emitters? I find that hard to believe since my Nichia @ 4A has been operating flawlessly. Maybe when I had reflowed them backwards I damaged/weakened two of them. I don't think it could be a short causing it. Oh well, I'll crack it open when I get a chance (after the white spots clear from my vision in a couple days). At least I have some extra emitters!

BTW - if those last beamshots are 2 XP-G3's driven at 3.2A each, then that's impressive! I think I measured about 1200 lumens for that.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm having a lot of trouble getting these two "dim" emitters to stay on. I keep removing them, cleaning things up, and reflowing just to watch them flicker and go dim each time. Current measurements show expected currents pulled from battery pack. I don't think it's a driver issue; I think it's either these two emitters or the pcb contact points. 

When I accessed the pcb after removing the bezel I noticed that when I slightly pressed the leftmost emitter that the two "dim" ones lit up bright (then I accidentally dedomed the emitter and so reflowed on a new one). After reflowing the new one I thought it was working ok, went to take sphere measurements and saw it was flickering a lot and those same 2 emitters went dim again. So I removed both emitters and removed solder (on the bottom of one emitter it appeared solder was shorting from one of the side pads to the center pad), cleaned up the pads on the pcb (thinking maybe I had too much solder), reflowed again, and same thing – flickering a lot until dim again! 

This is driving me crazy. I might reflow the original XP-G2's back on just to see if they work "normally". I might also try using (4) 10mm SinkPad's, but I'd like to avoid doing that.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

"When I accessed the pcb after removing the bezel I noticed that when I slightly pressed the leftmost emitter that the two "dim" ones lit up bright"

What about problem with PCB itself? Just wondering if traces are somewhat broken (leaving only small contact which can't pass all the current) or there is some short with tiny thread from wire or similar. Maybe you need to look PCB under magnifying glass or macro pictures with lightning from different sides. Just ideas....

I'm shure those two dimm leds are connected in series, right? The other two are in another series all forming 2S2P setup.

Possible diagnostic. Use direct drive of 18650 cell at 3V and power each led separately just like you would try to measure with DMM. Very likely only one should be dimm unless problem is on the trace between the two. Edit: if you start at +contact on PCB, anyway I'm shure you know which combinations to try to nail down the problem is either in traces or in led (s).


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, I'm suspicious of the pcb now. Perhaps I will get some Macro shots to get a closer look at it. I did check continuity with a DMM from the one pad to the other and to negative and positive input wires. I do feel like this pcb is getting pretty worn from my constant work on it. 

Yes, the two dim ones are in series and parallel with the other two which function normally.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I did the best I could at cleaning off as much solder as I could and got some Macro shots. The Macro shots really bring out the "junk" that you don't notice with your bare eyes! I should have cleaned off the flux before getting the photos.

I also tested continuity again and the upper emitter pad, right side contact (negative/cathode) was less responsive during testing (required a little more effort to show continuity - not terrible, but unlike the other connections). Looking at that "pad" it looks like it's sunken a little bit, but then again, perhaps it's just that I removed more solder and it's cleaner than the rest.

Pics:

Emitter bottoms:


In this pic, the negative pad I'm referring to is at the bottom left side (since pcb is upside down):


Viewed at an angle to try to show how "sunken" it appears:


Thoughts?
-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Suspicious part is the trace between "bad" leds which is somewhat grinded. It might have contact with alu base. It looks broken, too, but it might be just something on the surface.
Yes you should clean it with alcohol or something and repeat with macro pictures (very good, btw). Also I would get rid of excesive solder on pads and leds. There might be just to much if it.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ledoman, I see what you mean on that trace, though it just looks like a nick on the edge. Continuity from negative pad on 1st emitter to positive pad on second emitter (through that trace) checked good. I'm pretty sure I also checked for continuity from each pad to the base with none found. I'll check into that though. In stock form this pcb was extremely tough to pull up out of the body. I think it had thermal glue used instead of just thermal compound, hence those nasty edges. 

What you see in those pics was all the solder I could get removed and like I said, the macro pics make it look like there are mountains of solder remaining. I'll try cleaning up some more and get new pics.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I think you were spot on ledoman! I did some filing around that "notch" at the edge of the pcb where the trace is knicked. I did not measure continuity before but afterward when I tested it only takes a mm or two of movement of the probe down off the edge of that trace to get continuity to the pcb's base so prior to filing it may have been shorting there. I'm also now getting continuity from the emitter center pad to the base which I didn't think I had before (only DTP pcb's should show that). That's not a big deal since the emitter center pad is just a thermal connection anyway. I'm going to leave that trace alone as most of it still looks fine. 

I'm still seeing that one negative pad requiring a probe to be at the right spot to get continuity to the negative power lead. I think I'll try scraping that pad open a little more, but so long as I get solder in that spot it should work fine. 

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Apparently I was wrong on continuity between center pad & base; not seeing it now. If I move the probe down the edge of the pad I catch a point of continuity (top layer of pcb I'd say), but not down below. 

Scratching that pad open a little more definitely helped though. 

-Garry


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Just got one of these today, it was missing the O-Rings. So I will have to find something to work. 

Sent from the Beer Cloud


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

If anyone is wondering about my status with modding my 2nd BT40S, it's sort of on hold right now. After my last post I managed to accidentally dedome one of the "good working" emitters madmax and had used up the 2 extras I had purchased madman. I ordered 10 more from Mouser (same 4000k tint) and also ordered 4 10mm SinkPads just in case I end up going that route. The new emitters and SinkPads arrived on Friday, but life is picking up speed in other areas so my free time to work on this is getting sparse (I think I needed a break from it anyway). )

-Garry


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Which emitters are you getting from mouser? Everytime I look there for emitters I always find only the lower bins so gave up and just buy from Rich.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Tig, 
It's this one. It's an S4 bin. I see Rich (Mountain Electronics) has an S5 bin 3C tint. I usually see the +/- 4,000k tints one bin behind (and I'm willing to trade those few lumens for the "better" (IMHO) tint). I will admit that Mouser is a little difficult to find emitters on. Mouser seems to have newly released emitters before Rich has them and also a larger selection of tints. Mouser seems to run about $1 cheaper than Rich on bare emitters, but shipping is a few bucks higher so you have to be ordering larger quantities to make it worth it. Both get their orders out right away.

-Garry


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Ya I've bought other stuff from mouser (used to have a commercial account) but that was before these emitters became mainstream.

Seems they've stepped up better on their offerings, last I looked the best bin they had in any tint was 2 bins behind Rich (tint didn't matter). Last time I ordered though was back when I was experimenting lot with various outputs (needing current sense resistors and such). So it's been a while.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

In december I bought a bt40s kit off amazon. After reading about the board I requested a replacement and was promptly shipped one. Turns out it was faulty. Fast forward to now. Just recieved new lighthead with "Nitefighter" branding. Good company.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Glad to hear Andy took care of you!

-Garry


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

It was Jack actually but yea super service!


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

FWIW my husband picked up one of the BT40S lights recently, and I'm pulling the trigger on a couple more so the whole fam has them (or the adults have a backup). So far we've been impressed especially for the price.

I see there's a lot of grousing on here about the wide beam pattern, but for where we are this is a HUGE advantage as we're often trying to dodge critters at night... which includes plenty of skunks. Having seen someone else do it years ago, 10/10 cannot recommend tangling with a skunk on a bike. :bluefrown:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

verslowrdr said:


> FWIW my husband picked up one of the BT40S lights recently, and I'm pulling the trigger on a couple more so the whole fam has them (or the adults have a backup). So far we've been impressed especially for the price.
> 
> I see there's a lot of grousing on here about the wide beam pattern, but for where we are this is a HUGE advantage as we're often trying to dodge critters at night... which includes plenty of skunks. Having seen someone else do it years ago, 10/10 cannot recommend tangling with a skunk on a bike. :bluefrown:


Glad to hear your BT40S's are working out for you. I think most people like the wider beam pattern. As for the skunks; Not easy to see a slow moving, mostly black critter like the skunk at night on the trails. Thankfully most skunks are fairly oblivious to most threats. Genetics has ingrained in their sweet little heads that THEY are virtually untouchable by other living creatures. ( Thank God for that ). You really have to mess with them big time in order for them to drop the load. That said, it's always been one of my worse fears that I'd get "stick bombed" one night. If that ever happened to me I don't know what I'd do because I certainly wouldn't want to get into my car afterward and stink that up to high heaven.

Anyway, when ever I see one I always stop WAY before getting too close. If you're within five feet it's a good idea to stand still or move very slowly backwards....especially if you are down-range of their hind quarters. I made the mistake one night of turning all my lights out while taking a short rest. When I turned my lights back on I had a skunker not more than 15 ft. away. That was too close for my taste. Whenever I stop now I ALWAYS leave a lamp on low. I don't like stinky surprises. Waxing poetically for the moment....

I have no wish,
to be a Mt bike Grinch.
If caught sitting on a stump,
I don't want to Stink, Stank, STUNK!....:cornut:

And for those who know the smell and haven't smelled it in some time, a little song just to remind...


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

those and deer are my biggest "threats" for night riding. You can usually smell them long before you can see them. They are practically invincible as most animals want nothing to do with them. Deer its mainly just coming up on them suddenly at speed and trying to stop. Had a couple close calls. Both during the day ironically.

Ive seen a few, usually just the noise of me slamming on the brakes they scamper off.

Worst encounter Ive had was having left my side door open on my garage as I was in an out a lot that day/night. Skunk decided to venture in while I was in the house. Go back out and as soon as I start to walk inside I see the skunk. And he saw me. I jumped back and quickly went inside. He decided to leave at the same time.

Beyond that its just trying not to hit a **** or possum that are in my way. Gotten pretty used to being ready to treat them like a log over lol, though haven't actually hit one yet. They always seem to be in the way wrong place.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Yep, deer and skunks are quite prevalent round here. I had a black white critter cross the trail about a year ago I was within 5-6 feet, too close for me. I did spot a coyote last week, he was about 100yds away in the daylight. Catman, please stick to bike light reviews, your poetry is quite shotty....LOL!


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

Yeah, the incident I was witness to was the result of rolling up on a skunk on a trail through tall grass just before sundown. Everyone suddenly wound up way closer to each other than they wanted, and the skunk reacted by hosing him from ankle to eye. Clothing was sacrificed from the back yard...

I used to run a small dog team so covering ground at night was a regular thing. Deer, raccoons, elk, porcupines, even a rather memorable encounter with a cougar... Good times. Husby actually once had to dodge a badger with his bike in broad daylight just back behind our house so anything is possible.

So here's to wide beam patterns, lol.


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## SoCalEpicRyder (Apr 26, 2017)

Just got 2 40S at the my front door. Ordered this time yesterday. Amazon has to be losing tons of offers money with that. Also just ordered the gopro adapters off gearbest and the some aluminum gopro bar mounts. I will have to run the gay rubber band mounts for awhile till the goodies show up but it better than noticeable riding at night. These things are ridiculously compact. I'm glad I pulled the triger on these. My order a third to replace the only functional light we still had before Today, older lumina. Can't wait to drag my daughter out in the near triple digits heat tonight to try these out. 

Will be getting a Ituo X3 for my helmet for off road riding. Thanks for all the trailblazing!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Don't know if you have read this whole thread, but the BT40S is a very floody light with kind of short throw. That suits some folks fine, but you may find yourself outrunning it on fast trails. The BT40S has been one of the more reliable cheap lights though and a good starting point. An XP3 on the helmet with spot optics will get you some light down the trail.


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## SoCalEpicRyder (Apr 26, 2017)

Yup, been trying to sort through all the chaff for a few weeks because my daughter has been begging to niteride a lot. I though I had us covered with my antique niterider blowtorch and my wife's lumina but then the batts on the torch fizzled out on me.

I kept seeing the 40s here and there and started focusing on that. Decided 2 plus the lumina gets both my daughters and myself niteriding the local pavement a couple nights a week for the summer. I am planning to use the 40s lights as pavement or mild trail only and am getting the X3 for my helmet. Waiting on 75 grand in paid back medical expenses(please stay off Facebook and your email while driving), been told by the end of the month. So probably picking up 2 of the X3, maybe 3 to have a spare or if all three of us start bombing downhills at 4 am. Probably going to get 2 more 40s to retire the lumina and have a spare.

The input you and the others have put into these various threads hasreally made a difference in sorting through all the choices. I'm one to appreciate quality tools as a helicopter mechanic, amateur gunsmith, and lifelong avid off road motorsports practitioners and a lover of all things getting lost outdoors. There's been a lot of extensive field testing and product improvement done at you guy's hands. I appreciate that.



Vancbiker said:


> Don't know if you have read this whole thread, but the BT40S is a very floody light with kind of short throw. That suits some folks fine, but you may find yourself outrunning it on fast trails. The BT40S has been one of the more reliable cheap lights though and a good starting point. An XP3 on the helmet with spot optics will get you some light down the trail.


----------



## SoCalEpicRyder (Apr 26, 2017)

And I forgot to mention that I charged up the 40s lights and lit up the neighborhood from my balcony. They'll do.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

SoCalEpicRyder said:


> Just got 2 40S at the my front door. Ordered this time yesterday. Amazon has to be losing tons of offers money with that. *Also just ordered the gopro adapters off gearbest* and the some aluminum gopro bar mounts. I will have to run the gay rubber band mounts for awhile till the goodies show up but it better than noticeable riding at night. These things are ridiculously compact. I'm glad I pulled the triger on these. My order a third to replace the only functional light we still had before Today, older lumina. *Can't wait to drag my daughter out in the near triple digits heat tonight to try these out. *
> 
> Will be getting a Ituo X3 for my helmet for off road riding. Thanks for all the trailblazing!


Did you order the Nitefighter adapter? If so it will have to be modified to fit correctly.









This is the only way the mount will fit unmodified but the retention tab that attaches to the light-head is so thin it's doubtful it will hold up for long with the entire weight of the light-head offset to one side like this (I broke one of these mounts on my BT70 [heaver light] even though it was modified to center the weight better).









You can file off the back of the mount like this to get clearance for the power cable. Modified mount has held up for over a year this way but this light doesn't see a lot of use with me. Vancbiker makes mount for the BT40s also which would be the best (safest) solution if you don't mind spending the money for them.

Hope you and your daughter had a good ride!
Mole


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## j__h (Jul 16, 2012)

Just picked up a BT40S and am wondering what the rectangular window is for in the lower right section, any ideas?

Edit: Revtronic claims it's simply a mold mark.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I got my BT40s a couple of yrs. ago and it came with an extra wider angle optic. Does the new Revtronic version still come with the extra optic?
Mole


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## j__h (Jul 16, 2012)

The one I just got from Revtronic on Amazon does have the extra wider angle optic option in the box.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

j__h said:


> The one I just got from Revtronic on Amazon does have the extra wider angle optic option in the box.


THANKS! - Mole


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## SoCalEpicRyder (Apr 26, 2017)

Well now I know for sure what pattern the extra lense is.

My daughter and I took out 40S lights out for 2 hours last night. All pavement next to a semi rural corridor people use to bypass traffic during rush hour. It also leads to the local multi use mecca called skyline which is a fire road trail that leads to the network of trails riding the ridges of the Santa Anna Mountains. Those trails are my new playground.

Anyway, the light pattern and and brightness brightness are perfect for standalone bar mount one these mild trails. I can see the need for more throw when more speed and terrain is involved but for Causal riding on mild terrain you can't beat this light, especially for the money. I am upgrading to aluminum mounting tabs and clamps because rubber bands are for emergencies. That's the only thing I'm changing for awhile. I would like the see about making a 6 or 8 cell battery though.

I ran in low most of the time but dipped into high just to see the difference. I don't think This light gains much usefull light past the low setting with the lenses it's running. But that's fine because the low lights up everything to 50 feet very well and I want run time. I am going to run these a few more times to make sure and then order 2 more sets soo all three of us have a set with one backup.

Thanks again for all he contributions to this thread. Without it I'm sure this letter gem would be overlooked by many who do and will appreciate its value.

P. S. X3 just landed and batteries are charging up.



j__h said:


> The one I just got from Revtronic on Amazon does have the extra wider angle optic option in the box.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

So just did my first ride/race with this light. I have been borrowing my buddies Lupine bar and helmet set, no idea what the model is. I set up the helmet as usual and both lights to have just in case. Now I don't know squat about lights, other than some are expensive and some are not and quality varies. But for 50 bucks I don't think I could be happier. I ran the BT40s the whole ride and other than it getting hot as hell, I can say I am quite pleased with it. Provided great field of view and never left me wanting more. Now I'm sure there are better options but I'll run this sucker till it dies. Now if I could find a helmet option this cheap that works the same.

I Cycle so I don't choke people! 

Sent from the Beer Cloud


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You could take a look at the Yinding (in neutral white) and pair it with a Vancbiker Aluminum heatsink GoPro mount. That little light gets hot though, so it really does need the heatsink mount!

-Garry


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## Yok (Jun 17, 2015)

Where can I get the the weatherproof battery pack that comes with the BT40s ?
My battery that comes with the light will not charge properly anymore.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Your pack is very likely unbalanced. Opening it and balance the voltages could revive it for some time. But I would need more data (voltage after full charge) to be shure. Of course you need to know what are you doing....

About new pack you might look this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/battery-thread-2016-beyond-997165.html#post12352460


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## Yok (Jun 17, 2015)

Can the original weather-proof battery pack be opened?
Can you share with me how to open that weather-proof rubberised pack please?

Thanks.



ledoman said:


> Your pack is very likely unbalanced. Opening it and balance the voltages could revive it for some time. But I would need more data (voltage after full charge) to be shure. Of course you need to know what are you doing....
> 
> About new pack you might look this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/battery-thread-2016-beyond-997165.html#post12352460


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Take a look the thread and reviews I've pointed to. It's all there. And we should continue battery discussion there.


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## zerafael (Nov 25, 2015)

Hi

Is this convoy M1 a good helmet light with a bt40s on the bars?

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0...cree-xm-l-t6-3c-2-group-35-mode-led-flas-2020


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

zerafael said:


> Hi
> 
> Is this convoy M1 a good helmet light with a bt40s on the bars?
> 
> https://www.fasttech.com/products/0...cree-xm-l-t6-3c-2-group-35-mode-led-flas-2020


Your post is off topic for this thread. I re-posted your question in this thread which is more in line with your question.


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## PISKIE (Sep 4, 2017)

kwarwick said:


> Here's another solution to consider, but it will cost you some money. Hope handlebar mount which I've used on a lot of my lights... very good quality and functionality.
> 
> View attachment 999074
> 
> ...


Newbie here. Just ordered a BT40 from Gearbest after reading reviews here, so thanks for all the input, it's been really useful in amongst the minefield of navigating the world of cheap chinese lights.

Has anybody used the Hope bar mount above ? I want to mount my light a bit more securely. I've read through the thread about the Alu ones from DX and one that Vancbiker makes (is that a forum member on here selling his own homemade mounts?) But ideally I just want to buy something from a UK seller that works, without having to make any mods (preferably)

I think the Hope one above is plastic, so maybe not as good as the Alu ones in terms of longevity or overheating lights ?

Anyway, any recommendations for this style of bar mount would be greatly appreciated, especially a UK or European based seller. Thanks


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

PISKIE said:


> Newbie here. Just ordered a BT40 from Gearbest after reading reviews here, so thanks for all the input, it's been really useful in amongst the minefield of navigating the world of cheap chinese lights.
> 
> Has anybody used the Hope bar mount above ? I want to mount my light a bit more securely. I've read through the thread about the Alu ones from DX and one that Vancbiker makes (is that a forum member on here selling his own homemade mounts?) But ideally I just want to buy something from a UK seller that works, without having to make any mods (preferably)
> 
> ...


I think the mount you suggested will probably work very well. I don't use mine anymore but when I used them I just used the included mount. As far as I can remember I don't believe I had any problems with the mount but it helps to have the good silicone O-rings and not the rubber ones.

The best set-up would be to use a GoPro mount. Of course if you go that route you will spend more for the mount and adapter than for the lamp itself. Nope, I'd go with the Hope mount and it should work. Matter of fact I always wanted one of those myself so I might buy one just to have on hand.


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## PISKIE (Sep 4, 2017)

Thanks for the advice. I've ordered a cheap go pro handlebar mount and the Nitefighter adaptor from gearbest. I'll have to wait for that to arrive from China. I'll see how I get on with the original mount and the cheap GoPro mount first and may order the Hope one too. Thanks again.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

PISKIE said:


> Thanks for the advice. I've ordered a cheap go pro handlebar mount and the Nitefighter adaptor from gearbest. I'll have to wait for that to arrive from China. I'll see how I get on with the original mount and the cheap GoPro mount first and may order the Hope one too. Thanks again.


About that Nitefighter mount, you need to refer back to post #1111 in this thread. That mount is not very strong and the front tab broke off on the one I had on a BT70 which is much heavier. Pictures in port #1111 show 2 different mounting options, the only way it will fit as delivered (extra washer will be required) and a modified one that more evenly distributes the lights weight over the mount. The modified mount was done with a dremel to provide clearance for the power cord and that mount is still working on my BT40s (doesn't get a lot of use though). Similarly modified mount that broke (thinn attachment tab) on my BT70 only lasted a short time and I'm guessing if you mount the Gopro interface tab forward (unmodified mount) all the weight of the BT40s will be offset to one side of the mount and may cause a similar failure. If you decide to try to use this mount (modified or not) I'd recommend inspecting it before every ride.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

A light that I refer to as a "BT40S Clone" has been found. I posted about it here.

-Garry


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> A light that I refer to as a "BT40S Clone" has been found. I posted about it here. -Garry


I don't need it either but I got the discount and no tax, nice.

bt40 High Performance 1600 Lumens Tanx Garry!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*BT40s/Clone Mount*


Discovered the QR mount off my C&B Seen 7up works good on my BT40s also. Solid plastic QR, horizontal beam adjustability, less than $7 + shipping.
Mole

https://www.candb-seen.co.uk/product-quick-release-mt.html


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## PISKIE (Sep 4, 2017)

Okay got my BT40s delivered from China to the UK, it took around 4 weeks, not too bad. Tried it out tonight on a loop that takes in coast path, rocky path climbs, open moorland, singletrack descents and lots of loose rocks and boulders.

What a fantastic little light ! Really nice warm colour which floods a nice wide area around 20 yards in front of the bike, then lights up the distance really well too. I was using it with a cheap helmet flashlight which in comparison has got a nasty white light that creates loads of glare. 

Might order another one of these for my helmet now


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

PISKIE said:


> Might order another one of these for my helmet now


IMO, it doesn't have enough throw for a helmet. I made the mistake originally, but now use a dirt cheap $15 kaidomain x2 that out performs it on a helmet.


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## PISKIE (Sep 4, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> IMO, it doesn't have enough throw for a helmet. I made the mistake originally, but now use a dirt cheap $15 kaidomain x2 that out performs it on a helmet.


Ah okay that's good advice. Is the Kaidomain available from gearbest ?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Kaidomain is it's own site. But I suspect some others a bit more knowledgable than myself will chime in shortly. I only wanted to caution you before you throw a BT40s on your helmet, and find you cant see far enough ahead.


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## stiffler (Jul 9, 2005)

Would this run into any issues heating the cable as it sits in the channel on the mount?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I've never had an issue on mine even after heavily modding it (though I've not opened it back up to look, nor has it seen hundreds of miles). Mine certainly gets hotter than one in stock form.

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

stiffler said:


> Would this run into any issues heating the cable as it sits in the channel on the mount?


Lots of older single emitter lights (Magicshine 808, original Gemini Titan) have the power cords exit in a similar fashion. Smaller gauge internal wires have to survive higher temps. so heat shouldn't be an issue for the power cord. With this power cord exit location the o-ring band mounting system does limit horizontal adjustability though. The QR mount I posted pictures of a few posts back would fix that problem.
Mole


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## stiffler (Jul 9, 2005)

I saw and really like the QR mount but was trying to get a little more heat relief with the Vancbiker mount since we live in the desert and all.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

stiffler said:


> I saw and really like the QR mount but was trying to get a little more heat relief with the Vancbiker mount since we live in the desert and all.


Yeah, I'm sure heat is always going to be a problem if you are riding in a desert. The nice thing about using cheap Chinese lamps is that they are ...well, inexpensive. This means if you need more output but don't want to overheat the lamp you can try running two lamps at lower outputs. The combined output will give you the extra light and the lamps will run cooler. Use a "Y" cable connector and use the same battery. I'm assuming of course you have a battery capable of supplying power to two lamps.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

stiffler said:


> I saw and really like the QR mount but was trying to get a little more heat relief with the Vancbiker mount since we live in the desert and all.


Vancbiker mount :thumbsup: C&B Seen mount definitely not a better option, just a less expensive one.
Mole


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## Desert Runner (Apr 30, 2015)

Quick question. My bt40 and my 70 battery pack is finally giving up after two years.
What would be a good replacement ? Or should I buy a new BT40S kit? 
I been catching up on all the threads on new lights but not sure what's the new hot light is.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I would go with Panasonic cell packs, 4 cell for the BT40S, 6 cell for the BT70. Seems that Hunk Lee (FMA battery on eBay) might be your safest bet for shipping. He now has shipping from a US Warehouse too. 

The BT40S kit would just come with a mediocre battery pack. 

-Garry


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> I would go with Panasonic cell packs, 4 cell for the BT40S, 6 cell for the BT70. Seems that Hunk Lee (FMA battery on eBay) might be your safest bet for shipping. He now has shipping from a US Warehouse too. -Garry


Link to batteries sorted by "Item Location: US Only"

Items for sale from hunk_lee: https://goo.gl/RaivDy


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

These Huck Lee batteries are probably the best deal for those of us in the US at the moment. Remember if you buy a 6 cell you'll probably need a battery bag. I saw these Magicshine hard case 7800 thinline batteries @ Action-LED-Lights (LG cells) That also look like a fairly good deal and wouldn't require looking for a bag as another option.

https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/batteries/products/magicshine-mj-6102-7800mah-6-cell-battery

I also seem to remember seeing that the Revtronic BT40s come with batteries with lesser quality cells than the original Nitefighters (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this please). Original NF batteries were a step or two up from the typical cheap batteries in the economy lights but I wouldn't trust the newer kits batteries if what I remember about them is true.
Mole


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## Desert Runner (Apr 30, 2015)

Thanks for all the suggestions and links, Are the LG cells comparable to the Panasonic?
At this point am I better off to buy a 6 cell pack for either light ? I need two anyways.
Last question Can I use the charger that I received with the nitefighter lights or would I need something better.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

MRMOLE said:


> I also seem to remember seeing that the Revtronic BT40s come with batteries with lesser quality cells than the original Nitefighters (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this please). Original NF batteries were a step or two up from the typical cheap batteries in the economy lights but I wouldn't trust the newer kits batteries if what I remember about them is true.
> Mole


At some point in time that was true. I've got chanche to test one BT40s pack and reported bit lower quality to Andy. It was voltage difference in cells wich can lead to premature unbalanced situation. He said they are going back to BAK cells. Don't have any info if they actualy did it or not. So both might happen.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Desert Runner said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions and links, Are the LG cells comparable to the Panasonic?
> At this point am I better off to buy a 6 cell pack for either light ? I need two anyways.
> Last question Can I use the charger that I received with the nitefighter lights or would I need something better.


It is discussion for another thread. LG cells are same range quality as Panasonic, no need to worry. Dependable on running times you want to have, personaly I would go with 6 cell pack for BT70 and 4 cell pack for BT40s. Chargers you've got should be good, it only takes more time to charge higher capacity packs (which is good for cells).
We can discuss on private, it's bit to early that packs are wornt out in two years unless there are low quality cells. There might be just ubalanced cells inside. As said it is to discuus in battery thread or on private.


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## Desert Runner (Apr 30, 2015)

ledoman said:


> It is discussion for another thread. LG cells are same range quality as Panasonic, no need to worry. Dependable on running times you want to have, personaly I would go with 6 cell pack for BT70 and 4 cell pack for BT40s. Chargers you've got should be good, it only takes more time to charge higher capacity packs (which is good for cells).
> We can discuss on private, it's bit to early that packs are wornt out in two years unless there are low quality cells. There might be just ubalanced cells inside. As said it is to discuus in battery thread or on private.


My intention wasn't to start a debate about who makes better cells. Rather everyone's opinion on what I should buy nothing else.
The original cells that were in my pack are marked GN18650- 2600 maH. No brand marking what so ever. This was from my BT40S from the first batch of lights in mid 2015. 
These cells live in my garage in Phoenix which gets over 120 on a regular basis. Not sure if that plays in why these packs are dying.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Poor storage condition won't help, but I'll bet if the pack was opened and individual cell voltages measured they would show some variation.


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

patski said:


> I don't need it either but I got the discount and no tax, nice.
> 
> bt40 High Performance 1600 Lumens Tanx Garry!
> 
> View attachment 1159387


Thanks for the tip on this light. Just ordered one in and pleasantly surprised comparing it to my SolarStorm 3x light.

Does anyone have the flood lens for this light? I can't find it anywhere since I bought just the light head. Apparently the kit comes with one but unfortunately the Revtronic from Amazon.com doesn't deliver to Canada.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

BT40s flood lenses are really floooood. Unles you need them for some other purpose I think they are to wide for MTB. Those lenses comes only with geniue BT40s set with all accessories needed.


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

Thanks for the clarification. My initial plan was to use that one for the handlebar and the regular lens for helmet. I'll stick to the normal lens.

BTW the light is now on for 6.99!! I ordered another one.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

soban said:


> BTW the light is now on for 6.99!! I ordered another one.


YES! Back to $6.99

*BT40 High Performance 1600 Lumens*


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

soban said:


> Does anyone have the flood lens for this light?


I think It's pretty floody the way it comes, I did put some diffuser(dc-fix recommended by Garry) film on one of old ones years ago, before I got real lights from ActionLED.


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## chizo (Oct 9, 2017)




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## chizo (Oct 9, 2017)

Hi, sorry for posting just the pics with no text but I´m new to the forum so I didn´t know how to use the attacment.
I was posting the solution I found for the gorpo compatible mount using a tripod adapter an a gopro handlebar mount, you just have to remove the bolt and replace it with an m3 one, and also make the cable guide with a hot metal and there you go.
links to the parts :

https://www.banggood.com/PULUZ-Tripod-Mount-Screw-Connecting-Adapter-for-Gopro-SJCAM-Xiaomi-Yi-Action-Camera-p-1151752.html?rmmds=search"]https://www.banggood.com/PULUZ-Tripod-Mount-Screw-Connecting-Adapter-for-Gopro-SJCAM-Xiaomi-Yi-Action-Camera-p-1151752.html?

https://www.banggood.com/Red-Bike-Handlebar-318mm-Mount-For-Gopro-Hero-1233-Camera-p-924422.html?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

chizo said:


> Hi, sorry for posting just the pics with no text but I´m new to the forum so I didn´t know how to use the attacment.
> I was posting the solution I found for the gorpo compatible mount using a tripod adapter an a gopro handlebar mount, you just have to remove the bolt and replace it with an m3 one, and also make the cable guide with a hot metal and there you go.
> links to the parts :
> 
> ...


Good show using the adapters! Thanks also for the links.. It seems Banggood has a rather large selection of cheap Gopro accessories. Time for me to order some cheap spares as I see some things I like.


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## sokre999 (Sep 21, 2011)

Guys did anyone find cheap 35mm handlebar light mount?
Does C&B SEEN QUICK RELEASE MOUNT work?
Could someone try if 31.8mm ebay gopro mount works with 35mm bars?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Unfortunately 31.8 is the largest bar the C&B Seem mount will fit correctly. I took the rubber friction pads out and tried it on my only 35mm bike and could get to work a couple of inches away from the stem. Might also be possible to replace threaded portion of the latch with something longer, only a little short. Not designed to be used that way though so no telling how it will affect reliability.

QR Clamped








Short by this much








I did find another mount option but iffy whether I'd consider it cheap ($16). Tried the strap mount off my Taz 1500 and looks like it will works just fine. Only required using the retention screw from the BT40s and it went right together. Clearence for the power cord too.
Mole

Taz Replacement Mount - Light & Motion


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

sokre999 said:


> .....Could someone try if 31.8mm ebay gopro mount works with 35mm bars?


The linked one will not fit 35mm bars and there is not enough material to bore the hole larger to fit.

The extended style like....

Bike Bicycle Metal Alloy Handlebar Mount Holder Clamp For Gopro 2/3/3+/4 Camera | eBay

won't fit 35mm bars without modification They have enough material to bore the hole to 35mm though. I used to do that and sell them, but gave up after getting too many of them with poor fit on the GoPro tabs and bad threads on the clamp. The cheapo mounts vary widely in quality. Sometimes they are great. Sometimes OK and sometimes just crap.


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## sokre999 (Sep 21, 2011)

Tnx guys for clearing it out. Don't get why there aren't any 35mm mounts on eBay. 35mm standard is couple of years old now. Anyway think I 'll use the one that comes with the light for now.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> QUOTE=MRMOLE;13376861]
> 
> I did find another mount option but iffy whether I'd consider it cheap ($16). Tried the strap mount off my Taz 1500 and looks like it will works just fine. Only required using the retention screw from the BT40s and it went right together. Clearence for the power cord too.
> Mole


Got to do some fairly rough trails using the L&M Taz mount with the BT40s tonight. No slipping or issues of any kind.
Mole


----------



## He1enKe1ler (Apr 2, 2015)

MRMOLE said:


> Unfortunately 31.8 is the largest bar the C&B Seem mount will fit correctly. I took the rubber friction pads out and tried it on my only 35mm bike and could get to work a couple of inches away from the stem. Might also be possible to replace threaded portion of the latch with something longer, only a little short. Not designed to be used that way though so no telling how it will affect reliability.


Did you have to modify anything to get the QR screwed to the light? Were you able to use the screw that the light came with? Thanks!


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

He1enKe1ler said:


> Did you have to modify anything to get the QR screwed to the light? Were you able to use the screw that the light came with? Thanks!


No modifications required. Correct screw comes with the mount. Nice heavy duty plastic QR mount that allows horizontal rotation for correct aiming.
Mole


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## branny21 (Feb 13, 2012)

Is the solar storm X3 the recommended helmet light? I see a lot of “X3” notes but just want to make sure.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Some people use SSX3 as a helmet light, but while usable it's not very good. Firstly it's shape can catch branches. Next you would hardly get one with geniue Cree leds and very likely with blueish tint. There is enormous amount of clones out there. It is cheap, though. If you buy one, make shure you add thermal paste inside. I would recomend to buy Yinding instead if you want to stay on budget side. Its NW tint would go along with BT40S. Of course there are even better lights out there


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

ledoman said:


> I would recomend to buy Yinding instead if you want to stay on budget side. Its NW tint would go along with BT40S.


I also have one of those NW Yindings recommended in here($22), decent light and really small.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

branny21 said:


> Is the solar storm X3 the recommended helmet light? I see a lot of "X3" notes but just want to make sure.


The three emitter Solarstorm X3's were popular for a while a few years ago and actually worked fairly well as a helmet lamp although it did have some issues with the mode button. At that time Gearbest was offering a NW version which complimented the BT40S very well. After following three dead end links on google I don't see the NW version being sold any more. Your best bet for a cheap lamp for the helmet might be a Yinding with neutral white emitters.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

On the budget side there is also few other ones that could go along with BT40S:

http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S024031....-White-3C-4-Mode-2000-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black
http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S023808....-5000k-4-10-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black
http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S026169....s-of-2-to-3-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black

Each one with their own issues. KD2 and many versions of SSX2 were reviewed here on MTBR. Though KD version of SSX2 is the only one with NW leds I ever seen.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I have the KD2x and love it. Does anyone know what the real world differences are between the KD2x and the BL2s alsofrom kaidomain? I know the BL2s is rated more lumens, but has the same emitters and current draw so its probably actually closer to the same. Anyway, just curious, since I found the KD2 to be a great budget light paired with a BT40s on the bars.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Differece between KD2 and BL2s is mostly in driver and user interface. BL2S has better internal heat transfer but worse user interface. Leds are indeed the same on both and are quite good match with BT40S.


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## NotAgain (Mar 29, 2009)

*What a disappointment*

I am hoping this is a rare occurrence. Jack at RevTronic was quick to respond and sent a replacement battery but I'm returning my BTS40...

Before telling my experience, does anybody have a relatively accurate battery indicator LED? Mine would blink for 1:20+ leaving me with no reliable way of knowing when the light would automatically cut off. Total run time was 3:07 but 40% of that was with a blinking red LED. 

At first I was impressed with quality and light output but I was barely using it to help my aging dog see down the deck stairs. After topping off the battery a second time I ran a test and found the LED indicator turned blue within 15 minutes. That wasn't a big deal until I found out how long it blinked red before battery protection cut power.

I tested it three times with fairly reliable times between LED color changes. Jack suspected the battery might be weak so he mailed me an upgraded 6400 mAh battery. The battery brand is Bright Eyes so maybe they are related to RevTronic?

Anyway, I charged the replacement battery and didn't have time to test it the first night. The next day, less than 24 hours later, I plugged the charger in again and was surprised that it took close to another 1:30 to top it back off.

After charging I turned the light head to turbo setting and watched the LED turn blue within two minutes. Hmm, I put it back on the charger and let it go for 30 minutes before a second test. Same thing so I let it run. It was orange through :50 minutes when I had to stop the test to go to work. After work I turned it back on with a fan blowing on it and walked away. When I came back after 1:30, it was totally dead.

I am charging it again but this claimed 6400 mAh replacement battery looks to be barely 2500 mAh. This is my first attempt at night riding in more than a decade. I thought I was getting a great deal at the $40 lightning sale price. Previously I spent $250 for a Marwi dual halogen set but it died more than a decade ago. Despite the great light output, after this bad experience with my defective BTS40 and a defective replacement battery, I think I'm done messing with cheap lights. All the reviews pointed to the BTS40 being higher quality than the similarly priced, over-rated Chinese lights but...

I really, REALLY wanted to be able to add another glowing review. Jack wants me to return it and buy another. :skep: Somehow, I can't see myself rolling the dice again.

Should I try the Shark, knock off light head ($10 on Amazon) and a Hunk Lee 5600 mAh battery off eBay for $30 and just buy a separate charger?


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

This is the gambles. The other light head will act the same way. Obviously they have gone to even cheaper battery packs etc.

You will run into the connectors not matching for hunk lee packs IIRC. They will work but not the most secure.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah, the Shark will just be another BT40S (at least the guts). The Bright Eyes battery pack - I wonder if they simply paid for a Bright Eyes pack to be sent to you from Amazon? According to Amazon reviews, those Bright Eyes battery packs are pretty well junk and Chinese lottery. 

Can you measure voltage at the charger connector and voltage of the pack after light shut-off & after charger says it's full? I wonder if it's mostly a charger issue.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I would say without real measurment analysis you can't say anything for shure. As a first step you would need to measure voltages at different stages under load. Also voltages of battery packs after full charge might tell something.


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## NotAgain (Mar 29, 2009)

*BTS40 and Bright Eyes replacement battery test, take two...*

Thanks for all the responses. I wasn't able to measure voltages while under load but I did check each time I saw the indicator LED change +/- 3 minutes.

As suspected, the claimed 6400 mAh Bright Eyes pack is junk. The charger output read 8.29v this morning. Tonight it was 8.43v each time I checked. That seems ok from what little I've read but this is my first rodeo with Lithium batteries and chargers.

I'll test the original 5200 mAh Revtronic pack tomorrow. I have until next Thursday to ship the return but I might keep it after all. I can set a timer and I want to buy a helmet light and another good pack (probably hunk lee). That way I always have two running in case one dies mid-ride. The 5200 pack seems fine. It held an 8.34v charge over the last few days. Every time I plug it into the charger the light stays green.

*6400 mAh Bright Eyes pack test*:
Initially 8.34v immediately off the charger
Blue LED (75%-50%) at 2 minutes, ~*8.05v*
Yellow LED (50%-25%) around 36-40 minutes, *7.73v*
Red (25%-5%), ~1:15, *7.25v with flickering illumination*
Blinking Red (5%-) ~1:25, *only .1mV!*

Of course the light wouldn't turn back on at this point. The run time was similar to the first test. 1:30 is pathetic for a claimed 6400 mAh battery with a calculated ~1700 mAh per hour drain. I won't risk charging this pack again.

Maybe I'll tear it apart and see if I can use the parts after testing the cells. If I can't solder the cord to a Hunk Lee pack at least it will be a learning experience before I take it to the recycling center.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It belongs more to the battery thread, but ok, you got it from Revtronic. I suspect Bright Eyes pack has cheapo 1000-1200 mAh cells. You will notice them to be light pink or light blue wrapper and no print. Besides low capacity they are not that bad ie. they are quite uniform. Worst thing is if the cells in series are very different.

With 8.34V off the charger shows they might be somewhat unbalanced (given the charger unloaded output is 8.40V+) so I suggest you check voltages of each pair of cells in series. Fully charged should be 4.20V so you can expect measurments around that point - one pair shurely below that. Balancing would correct capacity a bit, but in general the pack is on the low end and to be used only with low power lights. You might keep it for some testing purposes or take learning course.

With Revtronic pack there is very likely same unbalanced condition. I would gently open the wrapper and check (use razor and cut between the cells on the oposite side where there is no cable). If you have charger for single Li-Ion cells then you have to charge pair of cells to reach same votage as the other pair. If you don't you would need to discharge a bit the other pair somehow. Depends on stuff you got there.
As I can recall Revtronic has used BAK cells at first, then went for some unknown brand. Talked with Andy last year he said they are going back to BAK, but do not know if this really happend. So unwrapping pack should tell you what you've got. Please report it back so we can advise you more. 

BTW, the light looks OK to me. Very likely you have measured voltages offline, so unloaded, right? This means readings are somewhat higher as would be under load. Low quality cells have big voltage drop and status leds are voltage dependable so can show you empty pack very soon.


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## NotAgain (Mar 29, 2009)

Thank you for confirming that the light head LED battery indicator seems to be functioning properly. Also many, many thanks for the detailed instructions on what/how to check the battery. I'll have to drain the high cells as I have no other charger.

Yes those voltage readings were unloaded, I unplugged at each step to probe the cable end. Voltage sag from weak/low quality batteries makes perfect sense as to why the LED indicator is fairly useless.

I really like the light head and now I at least have a second cable that I can attach to, or use to build a better pack.

Another nice mounting option for those still running 25.4mm bars is the old Marwi quick release clamps. I recycled mine and the light head sits centered over the stem and I can adjust side to side. The only issue might be longevity. They are plastic but it seems to be strong enough.


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## NotAgain (Mar 29, 2009)

ledoman said:


> It belongs more to the battery thread, but ok, you got it from Revtronic. I suspect Bright Eyes pack has cheapo 1000-1200 mAh cells. You will notice them to be light pink or light blue wrapper and no print..


Sorry to keep slightly derailing the thread. Your suspicions have been confirmed. Anybody that is looking for a replacement battery for their BTS40 should avoid the Bright Eyes battery packs. I cut it open the claimed 6400 mAh pack and found light blue heat shrink with no labeling. Individual cell voltage is very close but they can't be more than 1200 mAh based on run time.

With such low capacity I have no use for the pack so I'll keep the cable and protection circuit and recycle the cells. I decided to leave the original pack alone. Even if the cells are slightly unbalanced at least they are 2600 mAh cells.

I'd still recommend the BTS40 but those considering buying one, first check pricing on the Shark light head (not currently available on Amazon) plus cost of a known, good battery. Only issue might be an imperfect match between cable connectors.


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## yo9htz (Mar 3, 2017)

Does any one of you have the thermal glued MCPCB? Have you tried to get it off?
I have one like this and one with normal thermal paste. I would like to replace the emitters,
but I can't get the darn thing off.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Use some heat and try to twist it, not pry verticaly. To use heat remove driver first and all things that might be damaged like o-rings, etc...


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## yo9htz (Mar 3, 2017)

I'll try. If it doesn't work maybe I can reflow the leds by heating the whole thing without
taking the board off.
I'm looking in ordering leds right now but I'm stuck. What do you guys think, Nitchia 219C or xp-g3?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Very likely Nitchia will have better CRI (color rendering) while XP-G3 would make more lumens, but not much more. I would go for the first. Garry might tell you more as he has actualy done it.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

yo9htz said:


> I'll try. If it doesn't work maybe I can reflow the leds by heating the whole thing without taking the board off.


I highly doubt that will work. The entire body will act like a heatsink and you'd have to get the entire body scorching hot.



yo9htz said:


> I'm looking in ordering leds right now but I'm stuck. What do you guys think, Nitchia 219C or xp-g3?


I'm actually coming back around to trying out the XP-G3's. I had some frustration with my emitter pcb last year, set it down for awhile, and never got back to it. I'm now trying to use 4 individual 10mm Sinkpads but I'm not confident it's going to work out so well as those 10mm boards are tiny with the wire solder pads so darn close to both the emitter itself and the edge of the pcb. I've got them all reflowed and tested individually and am at the point of wiring them up 2S2P and fitting them into the head aligned for the optic. Anyway, I'll report back and post up the complete build once I'm done. (If I had to do it over I'd choose 16mm noctigons and file them down to fit.)

It appears that over at BLF that they don't really like the XP-G3 emitters. There are reports of tint issues (tint looks different at edge of the beam than in the center). They should definitely provide an increase in lumens over both the stock XP-G2's and the Nichia 219C's. The 219C's do provide very nice color rendering, but I believe if you get a good neutral tint you can get reasonable color rendering out of most emitters. I've also thought about trying XP-L2's (reaming out the optic for the larger dome to fit) or XP-L HI's (which should increase throw dramatically IF the optic will sit on them). Those emitters are a lot more expensive though!

As far as getting the pcb out, I say twist more than pull. Twist back and forth and you should break it loose. IIRC my last one was like yours and I had to twist a lot to break it loose (could have played a part in my stock pcb being such a problem afterward).

-Garry


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## yo9htz (Mar 3, 2017)

XP-G3 it is. I'll see where can I find some 3B, 3C tint in Europe, cause buying them from China it will take forever to arrive.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

yo9htz said:


> XP-G3 it is. I'll see where can I find some 3B, 3C tint in Europe, cause buying them from China it will take forever to arrive.


Can you order from Mouser? This is where I am buying mine. Are you boosting the driver output at all? If so you can order the sense resistors and SS54 diode (and possibly new FET too) while your at it.

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

yo9htz said:


> I'll try. If it doesn't work maybe I can reflow the leds by heating the whole thing without
> taking the board off.
> I'm looking in ordering leds right now but I'm stuck. What do you guys think, Nitchia 219C or xp-g3?


The tint with the standard BT40S is pretty decent. The fact that the LED board is firmly attached to the lamp is a very good thing. I'd be inclined to let it be. You might add a few more lumen or change the tint but the difference will be minor. If you want more output it might be easier to change the control resistors to pump it up a bit. That said I wouldn't want it to be more than a couple hundred lumen more then it already is. Juice it up too much and it will over-heat too fast.

The BT40S makes a decent bar lamp but the downside is that the optical set-up limits how much modding of the lamp really improves it's usefulness. I tried using two at once just to see how that would work and I found the extra output counter-productive. That's because most of the extra light ends up within the first 75ft of the bike and the end result is just too much light close to the bike. If it were possible to steer some of that light more forward it would be great but with the included "all in one" optic you can't do that.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Dedoming leds could make beam more narrow, but it's hard to do without getting led board out of shell. To begin with I woud try it with two only. Another option might be using XP-L HI leds which are widely used in a smaller flashlight throwers.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

As one running one modded to 4A output, I disagree about it overheating too fast. I last used mine on a nice 20+ minute decent (mostly on high) - video I posted here - and it handled the heat with good airflow very well. Yes, if you stop and leave it on like that you could probably fry eggs on it!

-Garry


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

NotAgain said:


> I'd still recommend the BTS40 but those considering buying one, first check pricing on the Shark light head (not currently available on Amazon) plus cost of a known, good battery. Only issue might be an imperfect match between cable connectors.


I'm mostly a lurker in this forum, but my understanding is if you do not want the battery pack that comes with cheap lights. You buy a cheap light head and quality battery from action led or another reputable vendor. Chinese batteries are crap and can literally burn your house down.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Rod said:


> I'm mostly a lurker in this forum, but my understanding is if you do not want the battery pack that comes with cheap lights. You buy a cheap light head and quality battery from action led or another reputable vendor. Chinese batteries are crap and can literally burn your house down.


Yes, most cheap Chinese type lamps usually do come with a crap battery but the original BT40S was one of those exceptions. The original Nitefighter version came with a 5200mAh Bak battery pack. Those were actually decent batteries. Since Revtronic has now taken over the brand name ( for USA seller ) I can't recall anyone complaining too much about the batteries. Looking over the ad on Amazon it looks like they are using the same battery but if in doubt you can ask a question on the Amazon site and you usually will get an answer.

The Nightfigher version is still being sold on Gearbest. Their ad states that they are still using Bak batteries. The downside to ordering from Gearbest is that you might have to wait for the shipping from China ( even though they claim it's coming from a US/Canadian warehouse ). The Amazon ( Revtronic ) version is on back order right now but are expecting more after Christmas. Either way you are going to wait.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I have both a NiteFighter and a Revtronic head unit, and the two work identically well. My buddy has a more recent Revtronic kit from amazon, and the battery goes directly to blue on a full charge, and then orange within minutes on a low setting. The max runtime seems to be a few hours, however. 

I gave him my spare head unit to try out, and suddenly the battery was green the expected amount of time. The connector seems to fit fine, but I suspect there's some resistance, or simply a calibration issue within his head unit. But it could easily be passed off as a crap battery if you didnt have a spare head to test with.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GuitsBoy said:


> I have both a NiteFighter and a Revtronic head unit, and the two work identically well. My buddy has a more recent Revtronic kit from amazon, and the battery goes directly to blue on a full charge, and then orange within minutes on a low setting. The max runtime seems to be a few hours, however.
> 
> I gave him my spare head unit to try out, and suddenly the battery was green the expected amount of time. The connector seems to fit fine, but I suspect there's some resistance, or simply a calibration issue within his head unit. But it could easily be passed off as a crap battery if you didnt have a spare head to test with.


I've heard the story before. You can't judge batteries based on what cheap voltage indicators are telling you. On some lamps when the indicators turn to red you have over an hour left, with others just minutes. Keep in mind that temperature will have an effect on the battery and how the indicators work. That's why I pay no mind to indicators. If you have questions about how well your batteries are you need to do a run time test or if you have a tester you can do a discharge test using a machine equipped to do discharges. The machine ( tester ) will only tell you the amp hour rating. It won't tell you how long the battery will last when used with your lamp. Still, if you know your batteries' Ah rating that's a big help.

I rarely do run time tests on batteries unless they are single cells. Too much of a PITA. I can however test my batteries Ah rating using my discharge unit. If I'm going for a ride and I know my battery(s) aren't fully charged ( or are very old ) I'll just make sure I have a back up source of light...just in case. Personally, I've never run out a battery on a ride and none of my lamps ( I use most of the time ) have indicators.


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## yo9htz (Mar 3, 2017)

garrybunk said:


> Can you order from Mouser? This is where I am buying mine. Are you boosting the driver output at all? If so you can order the sense resistors and SS54 diode (and possibly new FET too) while your at it.
> 
> -Garry


I know about Mouser and I already found what I wanted there, but postage is twice the cost of the leds. Modding the driver was the first thing I did when they arrived. Replaced the FET with AO3400A and the diode with SK54. Resistors are not the same because one has the "wrong" driver and the other the "good" one so I soldered different resistors to get ~3.2 A on both.
The one with bad driver has a dedomed led by mistake. It just fell off.
The tint is now to yellow for my taste.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> I've heard the story before. You can't judge batteries based on what cheap voltage indicators are telling you.


Yes, I agree. I have already tested out my pack capacities on my hobby charger and everything seems reasonably close to spec, and I've offered to do the same for my buddy. I only offer the story to explain away how some people may think they got a garbage battery pack when its actually the indicator on the head unit.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yes, most cheap Chinese type lamps usually do come with a crap battery but the original BT40S was one of those exceptions. The original Nitefighter version came with a 5200mAh Bak battery pack. Those were actually decent batteries. Since Revtronic has now taken over the brand name ( for USA seller ) I can't recall anyone complaining too much about the batteries. Looking over the ad on Amazon it looks like they are using the same battery but if in doubt you can ask a question on the Amazon site and you usually will get an answer.
> 
> The Nightfigher version is still being sold on Gearbest. Their ad states that they are still using Bak batteries. The downside to ordering from Gearbest is that you might have to wait for the shipping from China ( even though they claim it's coming from a US/Canadian warehouse ). The Amazon ( Revtronic ) version is on back order right now but are expecting more after Christmas. Either way you are going to wait.


Thanks for clarifying Cat. I didn't know a Chinese light had a solid battery pack. FYI, Light head only option is currently 16.99 on Amazon. See the link posted above.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Rod said:


> FYI, Light head only option is currently 16.99 on Amazon. See the link posted above.


Clarification, that's the "clone" version at $16.99, and not the "genuine". Almost identical, but it does have that sleeve on the body shell instead of being solid.

-Garry


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## yo9htz (Mar 3, 2017)

So I got my xp-g3 S5 5000K from MOUSER. This is the code: XPGDWT-01-0000-00ME3. I don't know what tint they are, but I suspect 3A. Well...they are allot floodier then xp-g2's.
I don't really like that. The tint is nice, there is no color shift as was mentioned here, they are bright, but the lumens are scattered all over the place. At first I thought there is a difference between the lenses and I swap them, but same thing: xp-g3's are much floodier then xp0g2's at the same current. 
I am a little disappointed.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Larger die size on the G3 makes more flood than a G2 with any given optic or reflector.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

yo9htz said:


> So I got my xp-g3 S5 5000K from MOUSER. This is the code: XPGDWT-01-0000-00ME3. I don't know what tint they are, but I suspect 3A. Well...they are allot floodier then xp-g2's.
> I don't really like that. The tint is nice, there is no color shift as was mentioned here, they are bright, but the lumens are scattered all over the place. At first I thought there is a difference between the lenses and I swap them, but same thing: xp-g3's are much floodier then xp0g2's at the same current.
> I am a little disappointed.


You might try de-doming the XP-G3's but then you might get some color shift ( or at least that is what others have said sometimes happens when de-doming emitters )

If you try it let us know how it works.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

And some pictures of everything you do would be nice too


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I didn't realize the XP-G3 die size was bigger. Hmm... Thanks for the feedback.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK also newer XP-G2 has bigger dies as they were. Have read at CPF Cree has implemented newer technology to them. They also better stand heat.

Now the latest discrete leds from Cree are DX16








BLF discussion about them. See post #27 for die comparation to XP-G3 and some others.


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## yo9htz (Mar 3, 2017)

Cat-man-do said:


> You might try de-doming the XP-G3's but then you might get some color shift ( or at least that is what others have said sometimes happens when de-doming emitters )
> 
> If you try it let us know how it works.


One of the reasons that I wanted to replace the LED's was that two of the xp-g2's were 
de-domed by mistake. The domes just fell off. As a consequence the tint shifted very much towards yellow. Besides, I've red that de-doming xp-g3's is not such a straightforward task anyway.
I think I will try nichia next. I will have one with xp-g2, one with xp-g3 and one with nichia 219c. I'll take some pictures when I find some dark spot somewhere. The downside of living in a big city is that it's light everywhere. Where does normal folk suppose to test their modded lights???

Well...on the trail, I guess...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Most compatible helmet light for the bt40s*



Brought this up because I have a new one. I've run my BT40s with a lot of different helmet combos (BT21, GW X2 & XS, Ituo XP2 & 3, Yinding, C&B Seen 3up) but the new Gloworm Alpha (neutral white) is the best I've tried so far. I prefer to aim my BT40s a little high to reduce foreground glare and smooth out the beam and so set up the very throwy Alpha takes over where the BT40s stops and extends the beams reach considerably (1200 lumen Alpha out throws all my 1500 lumen doubles). Perfect tint match and smooth/consistent beam intensity from the front of the bike to where the Alpha's beam starts to fade. A little expensive ($90 lighthead with the neutral white upgrade) compared to the BT40s but for the often used formula of 1 quality light + 1 cheap Chinese it lowers the cost of admission for Gloworm quality. So this is my favorite light to combo the BT40s with, love to hear what other run.
Mole


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

If I get the Revtronic kit from Amazon, is the battery pack that comes with it going to be sufficient for rides of a couple of hours or is it likely to be junk?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R1JC894/

Also, there were a few 35mm bar mount options mentioned earlier in the thread. Has anyone got an update on which version is working best for them?

Just looking for something to help supplement my 10 year old set of Ay-Up's!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It should be sufficient for minimum 2hrs and that's in Turbo the entire time. I'm not sure anyone has confirmed the latest kit battery cells used or runtime. Don't concern yourself with the voltage indicators much. Also, definitely want to replace the stock mount!

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

6thElement said:


> If I get the Revtronic kit from Amazon, is the battery pack that comes with it going to be sufficient for rides of a couple of hours or is it likely to be junk?
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R1JC894/
> 
> Also, there were a few 35mm bar mount options mentioned earlier in the thread. Has anyone got an update on which version is working best for them?
> ...


Looking over the Amazon reviews of the Revtronic version of the BT40S there doesn't seem to be too many complaints. When it comes to runtime a lot depends on how you use your lights. If the batteries are the standard BAK cells (2600mAh ea. / 5200mAh total ) you should have no problems getting good run times. If you typically run the bar light on the second or third mode you will easily get more than 3hrs. Whenever I use my bike lights ( bars and helmet ) I almost always run my bar lights on the next to the highest mode no matter what lamp I am using. That said with the BT40's I could often times just use the second lowest mode and have more than enough light as long as I'm not going too fast and the trails are technically moderate.

Notice that the Amazon BT40's have earned the "Amazon Choice " icon. I'm figuring this means the product has been well received by most buyers. That might also explain the popularity of this thread which just seems to go on and on.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

6thElement said:


> Also, there were a few 35mm bar mount options mentioned earlier in the thread. Has anyone got an update on which version is working best for them?











Here's all my 35mm compatible bar mounts (all require a gopro adapter for the lighthead)

1) Ituo Gopro bar mount (bottom left): Sold on Amazon for $20 but consider it more of a $5 mount. Lots of failures with this mount and would not recommend it.

2) Gloworm bar mount w/Gopro adapter (right): Mount ($18) + adapter ($8) are very easy to use and almost center the light in front of the stem. No reliability issues.

3) Vancbiker mount (top left): Most expensive, best quality + adds heatsink mass and horizontal beam adjustability.

I've been using a Nitefighter Gopro mount ($2-3) on my BT40s lighthead but it's very petite and I broke one on a much larger BT70 so you'd be gambling on reliability (+ it needs modifications to fit). The finned Vancbiker mount (far top left) is less than $20 and I believe nonfinned ones are available for less (all aluminum).

Unfortunately all of these options are pretty costly considering the price of a BT40s kit.
Mole


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Currently $38 shipped for the bundle from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R1JC894/


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## crank feen (Sep 25, 2008)

6thElement said:


> Currently $38 shipped for the bundle from Amazon
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R1JC894/


So it is best to just order the BT40 clone for $14 off Amazon and just buy a better battery pack versus buying the Revtronic BT40 on Amazon and having to upgrade the battery pack later?


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Not bad for a full kit that’s decent. I paid that in Jan 2016. I’d just buy the full kit, any issues just send it back. The battery in mine lasted a year before it started loosing runtime.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

crank feen said:


> So it is best to just order the BT40 clone for $14 off Amazon and just buy a better battery pack versus buying the Revtronic BT40 on Amazon and having to upgrade the battery pack later?


Clones have mount breakage problems too + lighthead case design on the clone is inferior for thermal transfer. Should be able to find a mount fairly cheap and how much hotter the light will run may not make much difference but makes me wonder where else quality has be reduced!
Mole


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

So I ordered 15 minutes before my wife did. Hers has shipped, mine hasn't yet!


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

6thElement said:


> Currently $38 shipped for the bundle from Amazon
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R1JC894


Says not to after Christmas, bummer...


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## derek1387 (Oct 13, 2008)

Has anyone adapted one of these to a GoPro mount? My Bell 3R has an integrated GoPro mount I would like to use if possible...

If so, what did you use. 

Thanks!


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I believe the top mount is supposed to fit correctly:
Additional adapters


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

6thElement said:


> I believe the top mount is supposed to fit correctly:
> Additional adapters


6th is correct. I have a BT40S version of that adapter that is drilled for the mounting screw (included) has a channel for the power cable and a few other details machined into the mounting surface.


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## neabue (Jan 5, 2011)

derek1387 said:


> Has anyone adapted one of these to a GoPro mount? My Bell 3R has an integrated GoPro mount I would like to use if possible...
> 
> If so, what did you use.


I have the cheap amazon clone version, but just drilled a new hole on the side & re-routed the power cable through it, sealed the orignial cable exit with silicone, and used one of the cheap nitefighter gopro mounts I had on hand and it seems to work pretty well so far!

Most of the time I just use the C&B seen quick release mount though


----------



## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

derek1387 said:


> Has anyone adapted one of these to a GoPro mount? My Bell 3R has an integrated GoPro mount I would like to use if possible...
> 
> If so, what did you use.
> 
> Thanks!


I designed a mount and 3D printed it. It worked well with my clone of the BT40. Haven't yet tried it on my actual BT40 that just arrived from Gearbest

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2650603


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## derek1387 (Oct 13, 2008)

Cerpss said:


> I designed a mount and 3D printed it. It worked well with my clone of the BT40. Haven't yet tried it on my actual BT40 that just arrived from Gearbest
> 
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2650603


That's awesome! Something you might be interested in making?


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

derek1387 said:


> That's awesome! Something you might be interested in making?


Still working out some layer separation on my printer with some mods. Quality is good enough and durable enough for me but currently quality isn't "print for someone else good". Also expecting some different material shortly. Currently printing in ABS. Should have some nylon shortly that should be even stronger once i get the printing dialed in.


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## derek1387 (Oct 13, 2008)

Good to know. 

Anyone try the Amazon $13 clone vs the actual revtronic one yet?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cerpss said:


> ..... Also expecting some different material shortly. Currently printing in ABS. Should have some nylon shortly that should be even stronger once i get the printing dialed in.


If you can get nylon printing well on your machine it will be a good improvement. I get a pretty good number of folks buying aluminum adapters after having PLA (mostly) and ABS (occasionally) printed adapters break. IIRC there has only been one person mention a nylon adapter failing.

One ABS printer that used to post on this forum found a noticeable improvement in fatigue strength as well as cosmetic appearance by doing some kind of a hot solvent vapor treatment after printing. Might be something to look into.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Vancbiker said:


> If you can get nylon printing well on your machine it will be a good improvement. I get a pretty good number of folks buying aluminum adapters after having PLA (mostly) and ABS (occasionally) printed adapters break. IIRC there has only been one person mention a nylon adapter failing.
> 
> One ABS printer that used to post on this forum found a noticeable improvement in fatigue strength as well as cosmetic appearance by doing some kind of a hot solvent vapor treatment after printing. Might be something to look into.


Thanks for the info. If I recall he was doing an acetone vapor bath. Not only would it smooth out the surface to make it look better, but I'm guessing it helped fuse the layers together a little better.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I haven't had a chance to ride with the kit recently acquired from the rainforest, but I noticed both lights emit a high pitched noise when running. The only time I've had this before in electronics was with bad capacitors.

Anyone else have the noise from their light unit?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

6thElement said:


> I haven't had a chance to ride with the kit recently acquired from the rainforest, but I noticed both lights emit a high pitched noise when running. The only time I've had this before in electronics was with bad capacitors.
> 
> Anyone else have the noise from their light unit?


Mine has been running with the high freq sound since day one. Well over 100 rides with it and its still working perfectly.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

The noise is coming out of the coil on the driver. It is common to those lights. Some make more and some less noise. Driver must not shake inside even for a bit. You may not notice it.

I would try to fix driver in the shell as steady/tight as you can. If needed add something that would press it down when you screw back side even more. 

Would love to hear it back if it helps somewhat (at least).


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

6thElement said:


> I haven't had a chance to ride with the kit recently acquired from the rainforest, but I noticed both lights emit a high pitched noise when running. The only time I've had this before in electronics was with bad capacitors.
> 
> Anyone else have the noise from their light unit?


As said it is common but should only be noticeable on the two lower modes. All it means is that the circuit ( PWM- Pulse width modulation ) that controls the lamp modes are cheaply made. I agree that securing the driver "might" lessen the effect. I used to have some cheap torches that did the same thing and sometimes tightening the driver to the lamp body helped lessen the whine. I own many cheap LED lamps and very few have the issue of being able to hear the noise. For me to hear it I have to put my head almost within a foot of the lamp.

FWIW, my BT40's make the noise too but for the most part I really don't notice it when I'm riding, although it might be my old ears aren't what they used to be so maybe that's why it didn't bother me.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Thanks, I haven't ridden with one running I just noticed the noise while testing the lights after they had been charged. If it's a common thing I won't worry about it.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Its common among almost all lights. Some are just more noticeable than others to some ppl. Usually the cheaper lights have a more audible, low PWM Frequency (and easy for a video camera to show).

Not sure if your one that has had the joy of old CRT tvs/monitors. Same thing. Nothing to worry about.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

This looks interesting. Lezyne lights are usually pretty bulky so guessing this should be strong enough for good durability.
Mole

Lezyne Go-Pro Led Adapter | Jenson USA

***I just order a couple of these so will post when received***


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Very nice find! I continually scour the web for things like this and never came across this (must be a recent release?). Nice price, just the issue of paying shipping on top of it. Awaiting your reports!

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Very nice find! I continually scour the web for things like this and never came across this (must be a recent release?). Nice price, just the issue of paying shipping on top of it. Awaiting your reports!
> 
> -Garry


Dumb luck that I ran across the mount. Jensen had sent a sale email with Lezyne products featured. Probably wouldn't have even looked at it except I noticed there was 10 pages of products. Curiosity about what all they produced allowed me to find this on page 9 of 10. Besides looking like a good mount for the BT40s and clone it should be a good generic mount as well.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1175426
> 
> This looks interesting. Lezyne lights are usually pretty bulky so guessing this should be strong enough for good durability.
> Mole
> ...


Unfortunately I would consider this mount a fail for the BT40S. Often times problematic power cord exip point leaves only one way to mount the Lezyne adapter which is not ideal (see pic.). Would work well on a Yinding/Duo, Old and new Gemini Titan, OK on MS808's/clones and luckily for me works excellent on my C&B Seen 3up and TAZ 1500.
Mole


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## katoom400 (May 6, 2010)

I've been setting up a dirtbike helmet for night riding, this is what I came up with using GoPro swivel mounts for the Revtronic lights:


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

6thElement said:


> Currently $38 shipped for the bundle from Amazon
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R1JC894/


Dang, back up to $55... Still a decent value.

For $100 this is the best value on Amazon with good battery, ITUO Led Bike Headlight, USB Rechargeable&Waterproof Bike Light, 1500 Lumens Neutral White

25$ for lighthead in neutral white, https://goo.gl/EcNzAv


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

Hi, I just got two BT40s labeled Nitefighter from Gearbest. Unfortunately both have the wrong IC 8020 instead of MH8015. I tried to contact revtronic for a driver replacement as Garry had proposed a year ago, but unfortunately they seem to have moved into other business. Any idea if there is still a replacement available or where I can find the IC - would be worth trying to change that part. Thanks!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

If you can, add same sized resistor R400 (0.4 Ohm) over existing R200 and you should gain 20% more current to the leds. This is about the same as you would get from MH8015. Their difference is in feedback voltage so you need different sensing resistance to match the output. 
See also post #1040.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

If you read back in this thread (I believe I posted it), simply adding resistors didn't boost output nearly as much as expected (I measured current & output in my sphere). I was puzzled why not, but gave up as I was replacing the driver anyway.

The bigger news is that my emails to Andy of Revtronic have bounced back as undeliverable. The Revtronic website also won't load anymore. I might try contacting him through his Amazon store. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> The bigger news is that my emails to Andy of Revtronic have bounced back as undeliverable. The Revtronic website also won't load anymore. I might try contacting him through his Amazon store.
> 
> -Garry


Interested to hear what you find out.
Mole


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

Thanks Ledoman, I missed the post 1030 which shows the mod. But I remember Garrys test and the unexpexted figures. But its worth a test  
I tried to contact revtronic via amazon yesterday, we will see...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> Currently unavailable.
> We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.


I copied this off Amazon's BT40S page.
Mole


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

I still have one Nitefighter BT40S head from 2016, unused, keeping it as a spare.
All those 5000+lumens Solarstorms for 10-15$ took over a huge market share real deals that cost some money were just pushed out. 
I was hoping that BT70 will have more time to become popular and cheaper a bit, instead it got discontinued, shame :/


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> If you read back in this thread (I believe I posted it), simply adding resistors didn't boost output nearly as much as expected (I measured current & output in my sphere). I was puzzled why not, but gave up as I was replacing the driver anyway.
> 
> The bigger news is that my emails to Andy of Revtronic have bounced back as undeliverable. The Revtronic website also won't load anymore. I might try contacting him through his Amazon store.
> 
> -Garry


That's too bad. I haven't gotten around to checking the IC on mine. Not too hopeful given that it was $16 from gearbest. Let us know if you have any luck.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

Well, it's not really a problem because I bought both for modding. Will be a little more substantial changes If I have to change the driver. maybe I will change one light to a 3A dual mode high/low. we will see


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

Sure enough it has the 5820. What's the effect on the light output? Assuming that revtronic is kaput anything worth trying. I can solder reasonably well.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Desertride said:


> Sure enough it has the 5820. What's the effect on the light output? Assuming that revtronic is kaput anything worth trying. I can solder reasonably well.


Original, "bad driver" at 1.34A max current draw:
Low - 250
Med - 505
High - 770
Turbo - 1030

With Replacement Driver (Stock 1.75A)
Low - 300
Med - 615
High - 915
Turbo - 1205

I stole this from one of Gary's posts (1074) in this thread. Lumen readings he got from his home made sphere.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hey Mole, did I happen to post lumen results after adding a resistor to the "bad driver"? (I'm only on my phone right now, so it's not so easy for me to go back.)

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Hey Mole, did I happen to post lumen results after adding a resistor to the "bad driver"? (I'm only on my phone right now, so it's not so easy for me to go back.)
> 
> -Garry


I deleted info other than bad driver vs. good driver. Here's the full post.
Mole



> I finally worked up my lumen measurements from my D.I.Y. foam sphere. My sphere measurements hold very consistent on my current regulated "calibration check lights" (which I measure each time to verify consistency), but I don't own enough lights of "known value" to know how accurate my measurements are (the one Fenix light I calibrated too works well between its 4 modes), but I do feel the values are within a reasonable range.
> 
> Original, "bad driver" at 1.34A max current draw:
> Low - 250
> ...


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ah, thanks. That's what I thought - way less boost in output than expected and to me not worth it since your loosing so much battery capacity to gain that output.

Oh, and that BT40S is still sitting on my workbench awaiting reassembly to finish it up. I just never got back to it. I have the XP-G3's on 10mm Sinkpads now and it isn't going to be easy to get them all in alignment with the optic and keep all the wiring out of the way.

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> I copied this off Amazon's BT40S page.
> Mole


At least you can still buy them off of ebay ( lamp head only ).

People keep talking about modding these for more output but truthfully I can't see a major advantage to doing that. If modding gave you more substantial throw than yes it would be worth it. I found however that even if you run two at the same time ( twice the output ) that most of the light is projected very close to the bike. With the optics they use that is just how the light is dispersed. Personally I found that to be counter productive when riding trails. Too much light in the foreground just produced more feedback glare and that just makes seeing into the distance more difficult unless you have a really bright thrower to combo with on the helmet. Whenever I used the BT40S on the bars I was usually satisfied just using the third highest mode ( ~750 lumen ) *80% of the time ( *when in combo with a good helmet lamp ).


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

I just got my new Ituo XP2 and it matches the BT40S perfectly. But like always: why use only 2500 Lumens instead of 3000? For me who likes modding all kind of things the answer is easy and reason enough


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

So I guess the consensus is leave it alone. Paired with an Ituo xp3 it should be pretty adequate.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

My 5820 BT40s has only 1000 lumen at turbo mode (Garry). 

On maximum it matches perfectly with the XP2 (max 1500 lumen), spot aimed at about 20-30 meters for single trails. This produces a quite well illuminated area without darker areas for 40-50 meters. 
If I choose a lower mode on the BT40s, than the Ituo on maximum is to bright and I miss a little contrast on ground details like roots, holes... But that´s just my impression. 
So I guess if you switch to an XP3 (2300 lumen) and run both lights on maximum, the BT40s might be a little underpowered. 
In combination with the XP2 a mod of the bt40s to 1500 lumen should add some contrast which I would always appreciate.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Slipway said:


> My 5820 BT40s has only 1000 lumen at turbo mode (Garry).
> 
> On maximum it matches perfectly with the XP2 (max 1500 lumen), spot aimed at about 20-30 meters for single trails. This produces a quite well illuminated area without darker areas for 40-50 meters.
> *If I choose a lower mode on the BT40s, than the Ituo on maximum is to bright and I miss a little contrast on ground details like roots, holes... But that´s just my impression. *
> ...


Everyone's experience riding at night is different. It has to be understood that not everyone has the same visual acuity when riding at night. Personally I think I have very good night vision. One of the things I noticed when I was first reviewing the BT40S was that even when I used the lowest mode I was amazed at how well I could see. What I mean by that is that I could see detail very well but only up to about 25-30ft. When I moved up the output I could then see farther. At maximum output the throw was about in the 100 ft. range. While that is somewhat limited to what I might ordinarily desire when using a bar lamp the trade off is that the lamp provided a very wide useful beam pattern when used on the bars.

When I ride on trails at night I generally have a bar lamp that I set at about it's medium output ( ~ 500-600 lumen ). I combo this with a brighter helmet lamp also set to it's medium output ( ~1000-1500 lumen ) For technical terrain I find this works very well for me. I only use the maximum output of my lamps when I'm riding fast / downhill or if I'm in an area where I might be worried about a deer jumping out at me. ( Thankfully the eyes on deer tend to glow when hit by light ) On milder single track I can get by with less light.

Sadly I'm at the age where my vision is beginning to change. The lenses in my eyes are slowly beginning to develop cataracts. I'm told I'm in the early stages but thankfully I can still see very well at night as long as I don't have to deal with a lot of reflective glare or bright on-coming lights.


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

Looking for suggestions for a US sourced battery pack to pair with my under-current BT40s

Assuming that the Hunk Lee packs are reputable, and given my max $30 budget, which would you suggest?

6-cell Samsung 30b

4-cell Panasonic NCR


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Samsung 30 B are 4.35V cells, thus charging to 4.2V gives you less capacity, but longer life (which for our purpose is not an issue). It has quite high voltage curve - see all tests: https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung ICR18650-30B 3000mAh (Green) UK.html
This pack would be good for highger powered lights, particulary regulated drivers where high voltage curve is important.

For BT40S Panasonic pack is good enough and would get just bit less capacity as 6 cells pack above (assuming same charging to 4.2V per cell). Output would slowly degrade as voltage goes down and won't drop quickly. On the other hand Samsung pack would maintain full power longer but drop quickly when at the end. Voltage curves shows that nicely.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Desertride said:


> Looking for suggestions for a US sourced battery pack to pair with my under-current BT40s
> 
> Assuming that the Hunk Lee packs are reputable, and given my max $30 budget, which would you suggest?
> 
> ...


For something like the BT40S almost anything will work. A lot depends on your riding style, particularly how long you like to ride at night and whether or not you plan on riding in very cold weather. If you like to ride in the winter in cold temps the bigger the battery the better.

The lamps were originally sold with Bak 5200mAh batteries. Those actually worked very well. Better batteries with more capacity are now available but no one can tell you what to use because they are not you. They don't know how you ride or how long you plan to ride or how much you plan to use the upper output levels. If it were me I'd just buy a good Hunk Lee 4 cell with Pani's and be done with it or I'd try using a Trustfire cell holder and buy some good loose cells and try that. If I were planning on mounting to my bike frame I'd likely lean toward the sealed 4-cell.


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks for the information and advice. I ordered the 4-cell. Do people who buy these bare packs just use the cheap nylon holsters or is there something better available (like in neoprene). If there is, I can't find it. 

I did a short test run with the light using a trustfire box and 4 LG cells recovered from a dell laptop. On turbo the runtime was not good, but that's not unexpected given the cells. I really liked the even beam pattern and the very simple interface with two buttons and no unnecessary modes. I would happily have that on every light I own. The throw was not great, but that's what the xp3 is for. I also had the hum on the lower settings - I assume that's normal?

I'm glad I picked up one of those cheap gopro adapters from gearbest - it was quite easy to grind out a channel in the back for the cord. Coupled with a basic aluminum gopro handlebar mount,in my limited testing seemed quite sturdy and allowed me to position the light a bit more ahead of the stem.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Desertride said:


> I also had the hum on the lower settings - I assume that's normal?


It is more or less normal in PWM modes (ie. any below 100%). Sometimes it helps if you can fix driver very tight, not rattling even a bit. PWM on some electonics elements produce tiny resonance which results in sound - hum. Inductors are most common shaking elements. All based on my poor/small knowledge on electronic :/


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

I was able to contact Revtronic ("Jack") through their amazon store. Unfortunately he wouldn't help me out since it was from ordered from Gearbest. On the plus side, it seems that Revtronic is a going concern.

If anyone has suggestions for whom to contact instead, please let me know.

(this seems to be their new website https://www.fortnite.direct/pages/frontpage)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks for the link. At least that webpage is faster than the old one!

-Garry


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

what's with the domain name????

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

Since Revtronic wouldn't help me via amazon, any suggestions for getting a replacement board?


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

6thElement said:


> Currently $38 shipped for the bundle from Amazon
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R1JC894/


25$ for lighthead in "warm" white, on fleabay Nitefighter BT40S Warm White LED 1600


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Desertride said:


> Do people who buy these bare packs just use the cheap nylon holsters or is there something better available (like in neoprene).


I couldn't find much of anything that didnt' double the price of the battery pack.

I ended up using a stronger velcro strap through the loop in the cheapo pack, haven't had a problem yet.

Premium Cinch Straps with Stainless Steel Metal Ring


I have these Granite Rockband Carrier Straps for my tube/etc, maybe I'll try them for the battery.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

I modded my bt40s by adding two R200. In my lamp the wrong ic U3 5820 is installed, so the before and after figures might be interesting for others: 
before/after
0.3/0.7 A
0.6/1.5A
0.9/2.2 A
1.2/3.0 A
A visual comparison with an unmodded light seconds these figures: level 2 is a little brighter than the unmodded maximum level. level 3 is significant brighter, level 4 has definitely more lumens but doesn't seem necessary. So I'm pretty happy with the mod.
I have a better diode and fet here, but up to now the light runs well even without changing these parts.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Very nice! 

-Garry


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

patski said:


> 25$ for lighthead in "warm" white, on fleabay Nitefighter BT40S Warm White LED 1600


Now on Amazon for $25 with Prime 2day shipping, warm white.

Revtronic BT40S 1600 Lumens Bike Light (Light Head Only)


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Now on Amazon for $19.99 with Prime 2day shipping, warm white.

Just bought my second as a spare, first one is still working fine as far as I can tell though original black anodized case has now taken on a rich copper tone. Anyone here know if the current batch they’re sending out is okay or just old rejects? TIA


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Now on Amazon for $19.99 with Prime 2day shipping, warm white.
> 
> Just bought my second as a spare, first one is still working fine as far as I can tell though original black anodized case has now taken on a rich copper tone. Anyone here know if the current batch they're sending out is okay or just old rejects? TIA


Thought I'd add a little more information to your post; The Amazon offer is for lamp head only. Only 13 left in stock at the time of my posting. Interestingly, Amazon informed me when I checked that I bought one from them in June of 2015....my how times flies. Seems like it was just last year.


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

I'm so tempted...i don't see a good lazy-person's solution for quality battery on Amazon tho' ... have to go to hunk lee or others still?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

slcpunk said:


> I'm so tempted...i don't see a good lazy-person's solution for quality battery on Amazon tho' ... have to go to hunk lee or others still?


I've been very pleased with the kaidomain batteries. They have panasonic cells, a rubber coating and a nice case too. Hunk lee batteries are fine also, but they dont come with any case or other protection, just the shrink wrap.


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

copy thanks. i figured would have to go outside the one-stop-shopping of Amazon. just thought I would double check


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

slcpunk said:


> copy thanks. i figured would have to go outside the one-stop-shopping of Amazon. just thought I would double check


Amazon does sell the Trustfire 18650 4-cell holder. So far not many people have complaints when using these. I use one but I carry mine in a hydration backpack so there aren't any issues concerning momentary disconnection when going over bumps. 
There are though both good and bad issues if you choose to use one of these.

*The bad*; the initial outlay of cash might be slightly more because you need to purchase charger and cells separately. Add to this if you mount the holder on your bike frame there might be some disconnection issues when going over rough trails. Lastly, you need to take the top off the holder after ever ride so the cells don't drain through the protection ( and USB charging ) circuit inside the holder. I've never tried mine mounted on the frame but I'll likely do that sometime this year when I get a chance.

*The good*; if you buy a charger with 4 separate bays your cells should always be balanced. The upside is you can also buy the best 18650's if you choose to do so. I buy my cells directly from Orbtronic ( USA ) where I know I'm not getting cheap fake Chinese knock-offs. Like longer rides?...If you use a cell holder you can bring as many extra cells as you think you might need. The 4-cell holder will actually run on just two cells ( two in series ) so if you bring two extra cells that can give you some peace of mind if on longer rides. Never had to do that myself as I'm using four LG-MJ1's ( 3500mAh ea. ) and that's more run time than I'll ever use on a normal 2-3 hrs ride. Lastly, also functions as a USB bank which can come in handy if your phone needs a charge.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

So when did Revtronics switch from neutral to warm white? New one I just received through Amazon sure is yellow in comparison to original I purchased in February 2015, anyone here know the color temperature? Also not as bright but I was aware of that, never used my first BT40S on max anyway because it drained the batteries too fast for a three hour ride in the winter. Anyway, hoping to take it for a spin tomorrow evening if the weather holds up.


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

The light head is now down to 12.99 on Amazon. Even if the color is not great, I'll buy one for a backup anyway.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Desertride said:


> The light head is now down to 12.99 on Amazon. Even if the color is not great, I'll buy one for a backup anyway.


I purchased another backup from amazon last week for 15.99, as did my buddy. Both were extremely cool white with an obvious blue tint. We were both hoping to get the warm white, but got blue instead.  I already have two neutral white BT40s that I use primarily, so I'm OK with the color as a backup.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Nice price, so I went to get one but, as I thought it was confirmed again that amazon sucks.
12.99$ BT40s
-0.65$ discount 
+35.54 A(sholes)mazonGlobal Priority Shipping
-------------------------
Totall: 44.88$

Does Revtronic have a normal store like on ebay or aliexpress?
Edit: ooopps, I was wrong, its actually 57.37$ 







If it were not that expensive, I would call them right now to congratulate them on a first place in "greedy bastards" competition


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

andychrist said:


> So when did Revtronics switch from neutral to warm white? .....





GuitsBoy said:


> I purchased another backup from amazon last week for 15.99, as did my buddy. Both were extremely cool white with an obvious blue tint. We were both hoping to get the warm white, but got blue instead.  .....


At those prices I'd bet that they are putting in whatever the cheapest emitters they can get at a given time regardless of bin or tint. Heck for $16 it's a surprise they have emitters at all  .


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Vancbiker said:


> Heck for $16 it's a surprise they have emitters at all  .


 I haven't verified one way or another, but maybe the 12.99 version doesn't!

Or maybe theyre just blowing out inventory of poor selling temps? I have no idea how to tell if these are newly manufactured or simply old stock. But its a good buy for replacement parts alone.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm . . . not bad price for those of us that just swap the emitters anyway! I've never even got back to my 2nd modded one with XP-G3's. It's been sitting about a year or so.

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Garry do you have to reflow the individual emitters or are they available on a star?


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## KingOfTheHill (Sep 19, 2007)

I ordered five - the temperature was listed as warm. Only one was warm. Two were on the bluish side and two towards the more neutral side of blue but not neutral.

I kept the warm one and returned the others as I really did want warm tints.

When I compare the build quality of these to the Nitefighter ones from two and a half years ago, the older ones have cleaner cast/cut bezels. Other than that, they appear the same to me.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

andychrist said:


> Garry do you have to reflow the individual emitters or are they available on a star?


I don't believe they are available on the same identical star size / pattern that fits the BT40S, so you're stuck either reflowing or using for individual stars (which is what I was in process of doing with my 2nd one - (4) 10mm Sinkpads). I don't recommend the individual star route as it's tough to get them all interconnected, positioned, and wires out of the way for the optic to fit. (In my case, I had to do it because my quad pcb/star had some sort of short or issue where I just couldn't get two of the emitters to work properly.)

-Garry


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

I ordered two lights, price was too good to be true.

Will be checking to see if they have the bad driver board in them.

https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-nigh...-bt40s-cat-review-963636-10.html#post12944403


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Desertride said:


> The light head is now down to 12.99 on Amazon. Even if the color is not great, I'll buy one for a backup anyway.


$12.34 with -5% coupon and no tax in Cal, free same day if you buy $35 of stuff...

Revtronic BT40S 1600 Lumens Bike Light (Light Head Only)


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## j__h (Jul 16, 2012)

arc said:


> Will be checking to see if they have the bad driver board in them.
> 
> https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-nigh...-bt40s-cat-review-963636-10.html#post12944403


Any word yet from the teardown?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well the Warm White I received is quite noticeably dimmer than the original Neutral White so I’d assume the board is still bad (or the price would not be so low).


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

Both of mine had the lower output boards. It still seems like a good driver. I can't get the buck controller chip to misbehave and the fet and inductor don't seem to be heating up, good enough for me. Adding a 0.5 ohm resistor (1206) on top of both sense resistors gets the current up to 2.3 amps. One light has always put out less current than the other, after adding the sense resistors it runs at 2.1 amps for a bit and then jumps to 2.3. Everything looks the same on both drivers, and the problem is not the power cord. Weird. I also changed R1 from 500 to 1.2 kilo ohms to make the green light on the back of the light less annoying. Its still on the bright side, 2k might have been better. I think it was 0805 size.

I tried dedoming the led's to increase the throw and make the color temperature warmer but the toluene started eating through the phosphor. I put some 4000k Luxeon V2 emitters in one light, beam looks pretty good. Planning on putting some 95cri Luminous SST-20 emitters in the other one, just waiting to get a big enough order together to get free shipping from Mouser.

They won't be as bright but should make everything on the trails look better. We're getting spoiled on emitter choices these days, now 5000k seems harsh to my eyes.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I've been away from the light modding world for awhile and now there's so much new stuff out there I don't know what's a good choice (emitters) and what's not. I know a lot of people like the Samsung emitters, and then there's the Luxeon & Luminous options. Seems the XP-G3's never impressed. Which are rated for most throw? Which for most output? 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I've tried LH351D 5000K 90CRI Samsungs, but they have bigger domes than XP-G2 so I had to widen holes on lenses a bit. Bad try. While the color rendering is very nice I've got even wider beam :madman:

I think I should shave them all and still I doubt I would get beam more narrow than stock since phospor size is bigger.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

The xpg2's probably have the best throw, maybe the 5000k 70cri Luminous SST-20 might be able to beat them. The 4000k Luxeon V2's and bumping the current to 2.3 amps match the throw off the blueish xpg2's at stock current. 

5000k 70 cri Samsung lh351d's will have the most output, but like Ledoman said its a big die and does not throw to well. From what I have seen in the optic data sheets the small optics aren't very efficient when too big of led is jammed into them. Below 5000k you have to be careful when buying the lh351d's and sst-20's, a lot of them tend to have a green tint shift at low currents.

There's some small die led's coming out aimed at the automotive market and throw really well. Unfortunately they are all aimed at 6300k much like the lights in the new cars that annoy everyone.

Cree has a tiny XD16 and Nichia has an EA21 the same size. For whatever reason they just don't throw very good even though the die size is much smaller than the 3535's.

I'm finding that I don't miss a bit of throw on the bar light as long as I'm not bouncing too much light back into my eyes from stuff on the side of the trail. My eyes just feel happier and I recognize objects quicker. Everything looks nicer and skunks, rabbits and raccoons look normal. They also don't panic like they used to, they're more likely to just move off the trail. Rabbits just keep on munching food when I ride by, even though I'm close enough to kick them. Maybe they're getting tamer or maybe the light doesn't blind them as much so they don't freak out like they used to.

I'm also hoping that once I switch out my helmet light to 4000k that the mosquitoes have a harder time homing in on me. I expect reality is going to crush that dream pretty hard.

Saw some 3C U4 xml2's for sale a little while back, forget if it was at Cutter or International outdoors. I dedomed some U4 1a's from Kaidomain. The ended up warmer than the 3c's and throw really good but are awfully yellow.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback. Still haven't decided if I want to snag another BT40S head or not. 

-Garry


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

I just wish there was an easy way to put a ledil angie optic in there. Still wouldn't throw like a Cute SS but it would be a step in the right direction. 

Move shelf back, find matching 2S2P mcpcb and open up the bezel. Difficulty level somewhere between easy peasy and not worth it.


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

I forgot to update that the two I ordered cheap from Amazon a few weeks apart both had warmer emitters than the one I got from gearbest a while ago. The gearbest one was pretty close to my ITUO xp3, these looked far warmer by comparison (3500k?), but are still usable. However, it seems pretty obvious even before a teardown that they were assembled with less care as well. .


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

Hey. My other bt40s driver is toast. Is there any way to get a new driver for it or maybe another one could be fitted? Any recommendations? It broke last winter; it started to flicker like crazy in the lower modes and then it never complete turned off, the leds stayed on. Havent been using it since I have other lights, now I tested it with dedomed leds and it seems that the driver isnt actually doing anything anymore, the indicator led does turn on when pushing buttons but the driver voltage/current stays same, the leds are always on when plugging it on.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I have spare one, but I'm in EU. Can you make really close sharp macro picture of your driver? Maybe we can work it out to diagnose what's wrong. Do you have DMM at hand to check voltage/current?


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

I am from EU too, Finland. I can try take a picture but no macro pictures with my crappy phone cameras.. Actually I think the Q1 fet (2300) is shorted from the 2 bottom legs - Naw it wasnt the fet, I removed it.. its something else shorting the 2 legs.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I've checked driver where the short might be. It could be 6 pin IC U3. Left pin from from Q1 2300 is connected to middle right at U3 - red line. This is used to open/close the gate at Q1.

If it is burnt out there might be connection to the ground at upper right pin - violet line. Check violet connection at pins on U3.


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

I have the 5820 IC in U3 and yeah its shorted in there.. Could it be that by swapping that IC it would work?


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

Or does that IC need to be programmed right or something? I can find 5820 IC, cant find mh8015.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

You can try to replace U3. Would be better to have mh8015 (read page or two back), but 5820 IC should work too. I don't think you need any programing. It is already designed to be used with led lightning.
See datasheet CN5820 pdf
Explanation is in Detailed Description section.


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

Yeah I know the original used to be with mh8015, but I cant find such IC.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

You may also check voltage on pins 1,3.4 to see if they are correct as described in Datasheet under "ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM RATINGS". Then you would probaly know if rest of circuit is OK.
As a last resort you can provide voltage VCC-0,5V (ie. about 4,5V) and open the gate at Q1 (which would be about same as quickly shorting Source of Q1 to the ground) and leds should start shining. I would use depleted battery pack at 6V so you won't do any harm to the leds.

Where have you found 5820 IC to buy?


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

Just aliexpress.. Not many stores in finland for electronics nowadays.


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## zerafael (Nov 25, 2015)

Hi. I broke the stock mount of my Nitefigher BT40S. Do you know where i can find a handlebar mount compatible with this light?


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

zerafael said:


> Hi. I broke the stock mount of my Nitefigher BT40S. Do you know where i can find a handlebar mount compatible with this light?


@Vancbiker makes mounts

or: Aluminum Alloy Bike Light Mount Holder with Silicone Rings


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## zerafael (Nov 25, 2015)

patski said:


> @Vancbiker makes mounts
> 
> or: Aluminum Alloy Bike Light Mount Holder with Silicone Rings


Thank you so much! That second one is just like the one i have but made of alu. That one should not break so easily


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

zerafael said:


> Thank you so much! That second one is just like the one i have but made of alu. That one should not break so easily


Yep, just the other week while fooling around with one of my old BT40S bike lights, the mount broke. Not a big deal for me as I don't use this lamp anymore and I have a second one anyway. Good to know though that you can buy aluminum bar mounts that work with the O-rings.

When I saw this thread come up on the forum again I was amazed that people were still using it ( I was the thread starter ) . Wow!...this thread was started back in 2015 and is still going. Amazing to me that this cheap Chinese bike light is still being used by people.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

The BT40S was a very popular light back in 2015-2017 or so. Lots of folks converted them to GoPro mounting with one of my adapters. I too am a little surprised that there are still some in use. Without searching my invoices, it has been at least 3-4 years since someone ordered a GoPro adapter for that light. Certainly one of the better cheap lights we’ve seen.


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## zerafael (Nov 25, 2015)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yep, just the other week while fooling around with one of my old BT40S bike lights, the mount broke. Not a big deal for me as I don't use this lamp anymore and I have a second one anyway. Good to know though that you can buy aluminum bar mounts that work with the O-rings.
> 
> When I saw this thread come up on the forum again I was amazed that people were still using it ( I was the thread starter ) . Wow!...this thread was started back in 2015 and is still going. Amazing to me that this cheap Chinese bike light is still being used by people.


Yeah still using mine since 2016 and going strong. Only thing i bought was a new battery for it.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

I keep mine around in case the kids need them. I have one that's currently residing on a head strap to use as a super power headlamp. Neighbors have to think I'm crazy when cutting the lawn, leaf blowing, etc in the dark by headlamp in the fall.


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

I've played around with a few gopro mounting options for mine because the original one they sold for it was very fragile. Recently I modified this cheap gopro tripod adapter to work with it. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001771655213.html


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Desertride said:


> I've played around with a few gopro mounting options for mine because the original one they sold for it was very fragile. Recently I modified this cheap gopro tripod adapter to work with it. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001771655213.html


Not that I need to use my BT40S but can't help but ask what you did to the tripod adapter to make it work with the BT40. I take it that the screw on the tripod adapter might be too big it fit the bottom of the BT40's mount screw hole (?). I'm thinking maybe you used a washer with the original screw for the BT40....?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

The BT40's power-cable exit point (directly behind the mounting screw hole) was a problem with this light too for most generic mounts. You could get a custom Vancbiker mount with a relief channel machined in the mounting area like the stock plastic mount or modify something like this pictured Nitefighter branded mount to fit.
Mole


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> Not that I need to use my BT40S but can't help but ask what you did to the tripod adapter to make it work with the BT40. I take it that the screw on the tripod adapter might be too big it fit the bottom of the BT40's mount screw hole (?). I'm thinking maybe you used a washer with the original screw for the BT40....?


I originally thought about re-tapping the hole in the light for a .25" tripod mount (which would increase the options for mounts but as MRMOLE said, the cord location would be an issue with many of them anyway and this was easier. All I had to do was cut a channel behind the mount's screw hole to make room for the cord, drill a new hole in the middle and find a longer screw with the same thread. Can't beat it for the price.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

I hacked together a model with a groove and 3d printed it in ABS.


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