# Shimano XTR Rear Derailleur Shadow Problems..



## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

I have had my Shadow for 3 months now and experienced a problem with it the last time out. Whist descending some real rough terrain I noticed my chain had gone slack. On investigation the swing arm had gone limp. I disassembled the mech and found the inner spring has a tab on either end that engage in a hole on the swing arm and a hole in the derailleur body. The tab had popped out of the body end, as a result the swing arm faces forward with no tension. I thought maybe the main bolt had work loose but after a service and using lock tight on the thread it happened the next time I rode my bike. Sent it back to Madison (UK Distributors) to see what they say. Was worndering if anyone else has had this problem as there are no marks on the mech is seems to be a design fault or maybe a faulty one I got.


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Whoa Whoa Whoa hold the phone!!!

there is no such thing as an XTR shadow rear der. 

And it just sounds like you got a lemon XT.... so long as you said that there were no impacts to the body.


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## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

Confused please explain...


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

chooofoojoo said:


> Whoa Whoa Whoa hold the phone!!!
> 
> there is no such thing as an XTR shadow rear der.
> 
> And it just sounds like you got a lemon XT.... so long as you said that there were no impacts to the body.


I agree - Haven't had any trouble with the XT shadows, nor heard of any from the surrounding shops. Shimano will get you sorted pretty quick, they're pretty awesome about warrantys and that sounds like a lemon.


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## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

This is the mech. What do you mean 'no such thing as an XTR shadow'?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=23787


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

You're riding DH with an XC race derailleur, it's not meant to take much abuse.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Some other people have had this same trouble with the XTR Shadow, even in XC use. The XT is only 40 gms heavier and so far pretty durable (and way cheaper).


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## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

What mech do you suggest? This mech has not been hit jsut been exposed to rough descent. Went round my local bike shop and took appart a XT shadow, the spring system looks the same.

Dont want to go way from Shimano.


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Ahhh.. i recant my previous statement that there are no XTR shadow's... our shimano rep obviously failed to point that out to us, and their website is not updated. :madman: i have to once again eat my own words. 

And, after some research you are sadly having a common problem. Shimano should warranty that for you in an instant. Also, might I ask why you are using a hardcore XC rear der. for FR / DH use? it is not intended for such use, and will wear out very very quickly.


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## skate (Feb 19, 2004)

chooofoojoo said:


> hardcore XC rear der. .


:lol: :lol: :lol: wtf is Hardcore XC, and from someone who didn't know that an xtr shadow existed it's funny how you're an expert all of a sudden.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

jamesstuart said:


> What mech do you suggest? This mech has not been hit jsut been exposed to rough descent. Went round my local bike shop and took appart a XT shadow, the spring system looks the same.
> 
> Dont want to go way from Shimano.


Use an XT Shadow, they haven't had the same spring problems. And they're about 1/2 the cost of an XTR


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Hang on...HOLD the phone Pt 2!!!! You mean to say this part has not been invented and produced yet...? Wow, how cool is that. I have a MTB part that does not belong to this space-time continuum, I should get millions for this on e-bay lol.

Does anyone else have these space-time evicted parts...?:thumbsup:

So far no problems though and I use this for freeriding and DH too, even though it was designed for AM-ish styled riding.



chooofoojoo said:


> Whoa Whoa Whoa hold the phone!!!
> 
> there is no such thing as an XTR shadow rear der.
> 
> And it just sounds like you got a lemon XT.... so long as you said that there were no impacts to the body.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

skate said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: wtf is Hardcore XC, and from someone who didn't know that an xtr shadow existed it's funny how you're an expert all of a sudden.


by "hardcore xc" he means the exactly same thing snaky said: weight weenie and race-oriented. "hardcore" doesn't always means "gnarly, with lots of hucking"


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Sim2u said:


> Hang on...HOLD the phone Pt 2!!!! You mean to say this part has not been invented and produced yet...? Wow, how cool is that. I have a MTB part that does not belong to this space-time continuum, I should get millions for this on e-bay lol.
> 
> Does anyone else have these space-time evicted parts...?:thumbsup:
> 
> So far no problems though and I use this for freeriding and DH too, even though it was designed for AM-ish styled riding.


Just an FYI, i already ate my own words a few posts below (about an hour ago, well in advance of your post.) No one is infallible, as everyone makes mistakes. in fact I just made a mistake via the use of a double-negative in the previous sentence. :nono:


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## alant (Nov 17, 2005)

what is wrong with using an xtr deraileur for dh or fr use? do you actually think it wears out quicker if you use it for this application (dh vs xc)?. it's a derailleur! shimano will warranty it and you should have no problem with using the xtr for "gnarly" riding.


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

mistake #1 was that he shoulda bought an x.0, or rather an x.9 and spend the rest of the money on something else.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Lay off chooofoojoo. Everybody makes mistakes. He already admitted to being wrong. At least he consistently contributes to these forums. He's a valuable source of information.

As mentioned, the problem you are having is not uncommon. On top of that... stuff breaks when it's "misused."


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## Dalis12 (Jan 15, 2008)

Sim2u said:


> Hang on...HOLD the phone Pt 2!!!! You mean to say this part has not been invented and produced yet...? Wow, how cool is that. I have a MTB part that does not belong to this space-time continuum, I should get millions for this on e-bay lol.
> 
> Does anyone else have these space-time evicted parts...?:thumbsup:
> 
> So far no problems though and I use this for freeriding and DH too, even though it was designed for AM-ish styled riding.


did it take you 4 ours to find that pic? good job reading the whole thread....

way to fail


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Dalis12 said:


> did it take you 4 ours to find that pic? good job reading the whole thread....
> 
> way to fail


Chill out.


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## Dalis12 (Jan 15, 2008)

i'm chill, was just giving him some ****


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## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

Only joined this site last night and some of the comments are useful but it reads like you guys are using it to show people up rather than help a fellow biker out! I do think that the XTR isn’t the best choice for the type of riding I do but this is only because I have concerns of how it will hold up when I stack it. XC riders use the same descents I use but on hard tail bikes. Admittedly not riding as fast but it looks like their bike is getting way more abuse than mine simply because they have no rear sus. To think that this derailleur wears out if used on any rough ground baffles me, were mountain bikers.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Read the thread and just thought that the guys comment was wrong of course and I wanted to just joke about it without trying to put him down, cause he's a pretty decent chap of course.

This is a pic I took a while ago for a review, just some eye candy pics, hope you like!!!! 

JamesStuart, I checked on another thread just randomly searching, and there was another guy who also had a similar (similar but I have no idea as to the details, he stated none) prob. He did not say how or why though so there was no reason to link it and the conversation was about as intelligent as this one.

Have you had any reply or response from the Shimano boys yet regarding this...? And did you take any pics of where and what the area looked like after this happend? For example, was the carbon back plate damaged or do you think it just flexed too much and poped out...? Was it in any way impact related at all that you may know of...? Just a few more details would be nice.



Dalis12 said:


> i'm chill, was just giving him some ****


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## karateka (Apr 16, 2007)

this version of xtr doesn't seem to appear as rugged as the older models. And just because its the 'best shimano has to offer', it doesnt mean it will take unprecedented abuse. Its sold as a racing part. But in jstuarts case, he just got a bogus dérailleur and from what you're saying it sounds like warranty-city to me.. 

Using that dérailleur for dh would probably make my wallet weep. Probably better off sticking with xt..


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Sorry chooo, I was not trying to be a nob or anything. I was just being sarcastic mate and did not mean to demean you in anyway, your a really cool chap in my books and I have read quite a few of your posts. So please do not take any offense to my post mate ok, it was in no way a personal attack or insult to make you look silly either.

In terms of the XO in comparison to the XTR, they are almost equal in terms of vulnerability, although the XO is perhaps more burly though and it has the Alum BPlate too. Yet its CF is perhaps less than what Shimano's is in my OP. But, both can and ARE used in DH racing, riding and extreme messing around...just depends on the riders prefs, terrain and set up at the time. I have maybe 3 rear mechs I use for different riding applications all related to DH and FR. But this is my pref and opinion, many may disagree of course, but each is to their own in terms of tool choices.



chooofoojoo said:


> Just an FYI, i already ate my own words a few posts below (about an hour ago, well in advance of your post.) No one is infallible, as everyone makes mistakes. in fact I just made a mistake via the use of a double-negative in the previous sentence. :nono:


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

+1...totally aggree.

In terms of warranty...I have no idea as I really do not know any more details other than what has already been stated, but your probably right though.:thumbsup:



karateka said:


> this version of xtr doesn't seem to appear as rugged as the older models. And just because its the 'best shimano has to offer', it doesnt mean it will take unprecedented abuse. Its sold as a racing part. But in jstuarts case, he just got a bogus dérailleur and from what you're saying it sounds like warranty-city to me..
> 
> Using that dérailleur for dh would probably make my wallet weep. Probably better off sticking with xt..


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Dalis12 said:


> i'm chill, was just giving him some ****


all in good humor man. It's actually good now to know such a der. exists.

And as far as things being used for their intended purposes here's a little note :

Things are designed, and optimized with one purpose or general area of purpose in mind. Yes to a certain extent a Der. is a Der. (a horse is a horse of course of course....) but certain Der. have design advantages that cater to a certain segment of riding. The XTR has been optimized for weight, and fluidity of shifts, much in line with the tastes of the XCer's pallet. Other such der's (we will use the XT shadow for example) have been designed to take more rigorous abuse, and deal with more and greater external forces. They have reinforced hinge pins, tweaked geometry (yes Ders. have geometry tweaks) and have more material where needed. Some aspects of their design carry over from model to model (such as the O.P.s cage hinge spring). All in all Yes I do think that an XTR will wear out quicker on a DH bike, then an XT counterpart assuming all other variables constant.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Of course of course...a horse is a horse except when its a donky :thumbsup: and then a donkey of course is no hourse... 

I would say that in the course of racing or HFUsage, the XTR would of course ware out faster and have a higher failure rate than the XT in that context, yet when youo are sponsored, it really is irrelevent. However, when you are not and weight IS an issue, then the XT rear Mech is the way to go other than Sram. Although, I love Sram but I am not a fan of their CF quality at all, it is much less stronger than XTRs CF. Although it has the ALum BPlate to give it more tortional rigidity and flex to help with any undue or premature breakage as such.

But as I mentioned before, I have about 3 rear mechs to suit various trail situations a such, so I do not really PUSH my XTR Shadow into majorly abusive situations that would endanger it too far beyond its design perameters though.

Chooo, sometimes a double negative can be used in ironic, rhetorical and or also sarcastic situations such as a Pos = Pos or Neg = Neg Tag: Eg: You cant ride down the mountain, Cant' you!? At least this is my assumption remembering my university writing sessions...?


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

try sram, they don't break as long as you use it for INTENDED USE.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Well..._intended_ use is a technically very WIDE area mate.


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## fran (Jan 24, 2004)

The same stuff happened to me with TWO shadow rear ders.
I do ride XC and it happened to me more than 5 times and all the times were going downhill, not necesary trough rough stuff or rock gardens...

I think that`s an issue with those m-972...because other members of this boards had the issue too...

What will shimano say now?..


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

Djponee said:


> try sram, they don't break as long as you use it for INTENDED USE.


Sram uses a spring that is firmer. Dérailleurs doesnt slap as much. 
And yes I have riddin both x7, x9, XT, XTR. Sram gets my vote hands down.


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Sim2u said:


> Of course of course...a horse is a horse except when its a donky :thumbsup: and then a donkey of course is no hourse...
> 
> I would say that in the course of racing or HFUsage, the XTR would of course ware out faster and have a higher failure rate than the XT in that context, yet when youo are sponsored, it really is irrelevent. However, when you are not and weight IS an issue, then the XT rear Mech is the way to go other than Sram. Although, I love Sram but I am not a fan of their CF quality at all, it is much less stronger than XTRs CF. Although it has the ALum BPlate to give it more tortional rigidity and flex to help with any undue or premature breakage as such.
> 
> ...


A horse is a hourse of course of course.... unless it's mr. Ed.

and yes a double negative can be used in ironic and or rhetorical situations, and some sarcastic predicaments, however i've found it immensely easier to use regular ol' speech when trying to give the full sarcastic effect. That's what i've perceived thus far at least from my lackluster public high school education. hopefully it will be cleared up in the near future with college :thumbsup:

true point about sram's poor CF. I still prefer the X.O CF/al cage as like you mentioned it has a more traditional strength, in addition to the host of features that sets SRAM far superior to shimano IMO. the only thing I like about shimano is their new xtr shifters. those are so effortless, smooth and adjustable.


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## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

*Questions / Answers*

This is the honest truth! If I damage a bike part I take it as its part and parcel of mountain biking, open the wallet and buy a new one! But this mech is 2 months old and in immaculate condition, seriously not a scratch on it (which I have been crediting to the new design).

No reply from Shim as its only just been sent off today, oh and its going to Madison (UK distributors) who have a bad rep in the speed of response.

I know what happened both times as I examined it intensively I'm obsessive about knowing exactly how components work.

The P-Tension Spring (7) has a tab that I've marked in Red. This slots in the main body of the mech and can be seen before the P-Axle Bolt (5) is inserted as the slot is a through hole into the countersink (out of sight in this pic).

It is this end of the spring that pops out of its hole. Once out all tension is lost and has to be rebuilt, only to go again on te next descent.

As I say no damaged either inside or out, no wear on the tab nothing! To me it looks like the spring doesn't have enough coils and under repetitive loading the tab pops out. Once this is assembled there shouldn't be enough room for this spring to do this.

Don't get me wrong, I want to love this mech, it is fantastic! But this problem I think is not a one off and this site along with many more will eventually see this!


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## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

Look at post Questions / Answers....


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

jamesstuart said:


> This is the honest truth! If I damage a bike part I take it as its part and parcel of mountain biking, open the wallet and buy a new one! But this mech is 2 months old and in immaculate condition, seriously not a scratch on it (which I have been crediting to the new design).
> 
> No reply from Shim as its only just been sent off today, oh and its going to Madison (UK distributors) who have a bad rep in the speed of response.
> 
> ...


I am really not clear how that could happen (not that it didn't), but that spring is held so that each coil touches the other, so how can it move so the tab comes out??? It is a torsion spring.

Anyway I got one of those and it has been perfect, and i have ridden dwon some awfully rocky and steep mountain sides.

OOOPs sorry I have the XTR 97o not the shadow.


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## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

From the pic you cant see inside the tube where the spring sits. But this isn't a closed tube, its hard to explain but the best way I think is to say it tube has an open slot either side and maybe the spring is pushing into this area. Its always this tab that pops out, OK its only a guess as to how but it does.


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## fran (Jan 24, 2004)

Hi james...as you already know the same thing happened to me and I`m waiting for my LBS to send me the "reason" why the der did this...In the mean time I can add to this discussion that my opinion about the failure isn`t the coil moving inside the housing. As you can see shimano got rid of one spring with this shadow rear der series...the spring that was were the b-crew is...
In conclusion the p tension spring has to do both works, elevate the b-body and actuate the deraileur cage forward and back...so when going down a hill (rough terrain) the der is moving in every possible direction, this could be a stress cause for the spring to come loose...

Also the other thing I was looking examinating the failure is that if you look closely and compare the p-spring "lips" that insert into the holes of the deraileur housing, it`s extremely small compared to other 97X derr series, it just enter the "head" of the tiny "lip"...So having a coil wich support more stress without the proper support (insertion into the deraileur body) may cause the failure...

Also, this is all speculations...it could be because of other things...

keep the GOOD and USEFUL comments going...


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

I wonder if it has too much flex in that part of the design which is causing it to unspring and pop out like that...? In theory this SHOULD NOT happen, but obviously it is. If it is flex, that tab is placed within a low flex area and is also tentioned in place with no room to have any lateral movement I guess, so that area would have to move around about 2mm or so in order for it to pop out like that...? And under 2mm of movement (just assuming here), that area would be close to it maximum point of failure due it being tentioned and acting as a leverage point.

Do you think that perhaps the P-Axle Bolt was not given the proper toque...>??>

Of course no product is perfect, I have had defected Sram XO rear mechs before so Shimano only being what it is, would also fall under the same issues as any other company would. But so far mine is A...OK adn as I mentioned before, I have riden it in DH and predominantly FR sitations. 
Of course I am not doubting you claim, I think there could actually be an issue here and it is worth investigating further. Which is why you may only get a new part and not your original rear mech back, as the Shimano boys would probably keep your original for testing further...!?


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## fran (Jan 24, 2004)

Do you think that perhaps the P-Axle Bolt was not given the proper toque...>??>

I don`t think so...at least it was REAL tight the times it came loose...

Which is why you may only get a new part and not your original rear mech back, as the Shimano boys would probably keep your original for testing further...!?

In fact I`m waiting what the shimano representation has to say about it...It`s very hard (for any company) to admit they failure as a faulty design...so we are looking forward for a person who has the knowledgment to enlight us here!...


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

+1

The spring in question, may have its tab set too small or perhaps not wide enough to support the loads also in question.

Do you think the spings tab needs to be wider and deeper, fitting into the body of the unit more!?

Keep the discusion going lads...see where this goes.:thumbsup:



fran said:


> Hi james...as you already know the same thing happened to me and I`m waiting for my LBS to send me the "reason" why the der did this...In the mean time I can add to this discussion that my opinion about the failure isn`t the coil moving inside the housing. As you can see shimano got rid of one spring with this shadow rear der series...the spring that was were the b-crew is...
> In conclusion the p tension spring has to do both works, elevate the b-body and actuate the deraileur cage forward and back...so when going down a hill (rough terrain) the der is moving in every possible direction, this could be a stress cause for the spring to come loose...
> 
> Also the other thing I was looking examinating the failure is that if you look closely and compare the p-spring "lips" that insert into the holes of the deraileur housing, it`s extremely small compared to other 97X derr series, it just enter the "head" of the tiny "lip"...So having a coil wich support more stress without the proper support (insertion into the deraileur body) may cause the failure...
> ...


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## fran (Jan 24, 2004)

Yes, I think that should be the "possible" cure of the problem...

Also, check this out for reference about "diferences" between the same model...
The first picture is like the one I had initially...after 75km it brakes...then after 100km it failed again and then after 75km or so it failed once AGAIN...

http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=2471

If you look closely you can see that two of the four fluor coated pivots are naked...Well, the new one looks like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/08-XTR-Carbon-S...ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

This last one was the new one I received once the first failed...this "new" version failed after 80km...I didn`t even wanted to try to repair it, I just took it to the LBS so they can take care of it...

If we can see stetical differences, there`s no surprise that "other" version of the SAME rear deraileur could have "better internals"...


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

I had the previous generation XT derailleur fail. The P-Tension spring popped out of the hole in the arm that mounts the derailleur wheels. Seems when the spring would fully tension it would loose a fraction of length. That combined w/ normal bushing wear would cause this problem. Replaced with a new XT (non shadow) ... just last week the derailluer wheel arm over centered, on a drop , and had to spin it back around. Maybe Shimano never departed far enough from their orig. road designs.


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## fran (Jan 24, 2004)

I understand your problem, but I had an old XT (it was from 2004) and it`s still running without problems...So, seeing this stuff on BRAND NEW equipment with ALMOST NO WEAR is a little frustating...Also I don`t do any drops or hucks...just XC racing and training...
It`s the first time I see this stuff happends...

Your theory seems logical, too...


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## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

I’ve bought a new XT Shadow so I can go biking whist waiting for Shimano to give me an answer on the XTR.

But one thing I am concerned with now is I have read that the P-Bolt on the XT may have been made to break, much the same as on style mechs before frames had changeable mech hangers. I’ve read instances where XT Shadow mechs have snapped off (P-Bolt) without being hit.

Anyone read or heard this? Really hope it’s not the case or that’s 2 new mechs I’ll be returning…


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## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

Sorry its not the P-Bolt that breaks its the B-Blot (mount to frame hanger).


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

In terms of the Bracket mount bolt, you would really need to give it a good whollop for it to just snap off like that. And the B-Bolt is replacable, so its of no concequence...at least from my understanding.

BTW...I have the 08 XT Shaddow RrMech on my older VT, and that Susp-Design has more wacks, chain slaps and other ghost shifting, derailment issues than many, yet its been ok so far. Albiet, it has only been on there for about 2 months and has been used mainly as an aggressive trail/ AM bike.


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## Dalis12 (Jan 15, 2008)

jamesstuart said:


> I've bought a new XT Shadow so I can go biking whist waiting for Shimano to give me an answer on the XTR.
> 
> But one thing I am concerned with now is I have read that the P-Bolt on the XT may have been made to break, much the same as on style mechs before frames had changeable mech hangers. I've read instances where XT Shadow mechs have snapped off (P-Bolt) without being hit.
> 
> Anyone read or heard this? Really hope it's not the case or that's 2 new mechs I'll be returning&#8230;


me an my buddy just put new XT shadows on.... let you know if anything snaps. he snapped an 06 XT while just peddling up hill.... but it wasn't at a bolt of anything, he just snapped it in half


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

WHAT...did his chain get stuck (somehow) and he did not realize it and still tried to power peddle out of it...?


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## bigmike00 (Sep 6, 2007)

snaky69 said:


> You're riding DH with an XC race derailleur, it's not meant to take much abuse.


Entire KHS team is running XT shadows on their DH bikes.


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## Dalis12 (Jan 15, 2008)

Sim2u said:


> WHAT...did his chain get stuck (somehow) and he did not realize it and still tried to power peddle out of it...?


that seems most probable, but we still aren't positive. he was still able to peddle until it snapped. but said it felt funny, then all of a sudden he had no resistance(or half a derailleur) was a fun ride back:thumbsup:


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Its funny that many people think that Saint is the ONLY derailleur that can and IS used for DH. Many racers and people use XT and XTR Rear Mechs, depends on the course and conditions, yet many people do use them.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Ha ha ha...yeah I bet! You should post up some pics of it if you can.:thumbsup:



Dalis12 said:


> that seems most probable, but we still aren't positive. he was still able to peddle until it snapped. but said it felt funny, then all of a sudden he had no resistance(or half a derailleur) was a fun ride back:thumbsup:


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## Dalis12 (Jan 15, 2008)

ill see if he still has it. we keep our bikes in the same spot so ill look around before i go for my night ride tomorrow. other wise i'll ask him on thursday


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## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

*Result! *Shimano have warranted my faulty XTR Shadow. Full refund but no answer as to what was wrong with it. If I find out I will post it..


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## roadrunner (Mar 29, 2004)

*XTR Shadow*

Did you get a fix for your XTR Shadow derailleur, I'm thinking of getting one, but I don't want sacrifice reliability for a small weight saving and bling factor.


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## jamesstuart (Feb 22, 2008)

Shimano would not comment on their findings with my mech, but have refunded the full RRP. I now have a XT Shadow and its way better and a 1/3 of the price!

Buy an XT!!! :thumbsup:


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

jamesstuart said:


> *Result! *Shimano have warranted my faulty XTR Shadow. Full refund but no answer as to what was wrong with it. If I find out I will post it..


Sweet it is way to much $$$ to ride with! i would use as a paperweight on my desk. here is the inside shot of it.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Here is Japan, we can buy an XTR for about 18,000 ¥, and buy an XO for 30,000¥....hhhmmmmm, which is cheaper lol!


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Expect to see some changes for either 09 or 2010 for this...:thumbsup:



jamesstuart said:


> Shimano would not comment on their findings with my mech, but have refunded the full RRP. I now have a XT Shadow and its way better and a 1/3 of the price!
> 
> Buy an XT!!! :thumbsup:


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## roadrunner (Mar 29, 2004)

I think I'll leave the xtr shadow while the jury is still out on the problem.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

hurray XTR shadow SUCKS! :madmax: 

I got one thinking it would have the same quality as the previous XTR rear derailleur’s and it is a bit lighter BUT the xtr shadow is a real crap! 

It has play out of the box! It doesn’t shift well despite all the efforts to adjust the gears, swapping chains, I even sanded down the stopping tab that makes the RD have a BIG angle and make the top pulley closer to the cassette but the problem continues! wtf is this? My previous XTR (970) that I had on the bike was shifting perfectly even after I crashed, landed on it and bent the RD hanger, it does not have any play and it's not bent!

This doesn’t seem like a top of the line shimano creation!

I will check the cable outers tomorrow but if it doesn’t get better the XTR shadow is out to the trash!


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

I have noticed that the M971 XTR shadow derailleur to be sloppy. It feels like the spring stiffness is too low. 

But the M972 XTR shadow with the carbon cages seems very well made and works wonderfully.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

when you want something that 
takes abuse everytime
you will switch to 
Sram X0 or X9


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## sq225917 (Dec 28, 2008)

i've found the XTR shadow to be flawless, certainly compared to the Sram crap my bike came with.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Well its been a while since posting here, but as it stands the Shimano XTR Rr mech is still going strong so far via a full season of battering DH races and FRiding, yet I have since changed it for the XO with relevant triggers due to the fact that I really do not want to push it further.

Just wish now that the XO did not hang out over the RHS outboard chanstay side so much and I really miss the seemless ride of the XTR. But going from the XTR to the XO, I feel as though this thing is like a brick protruding horizontally out from the back of my bike but it does have that nice bling factor though.

I have to say that I too much prefer the XTR over the Sram as well as the shimano using superior quality parts.

However, the new Sram members to the existing family should be very interesting to test out this year.


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Sim2u said:


> Well its been a while since posting here, but as it stands the Shimano XTR Rr mech is still going strong so far via a full season of battering DH races and FRiding, yet I have since changed it for the XO with relevant triggers due to the fact that I really do not want to push it further.
> 
> Just wish now that the XO did not hang out over the RHS outboard chanstay side so much and I really miss the seemless ride of the XTR. But going from the XTR to the XO, I feel as though this thing is like a brick protruding horizontally out from the back of my bike but it does have that nice bling factor though.
> 
> ...


After all the debauchery and my previous ignorance, I decided to buy a new XTR shadow set up and try it out.. Held up great all season.

I'll give you one better though...

SRAM RED! blows X.O and XTR out of the water. :thumbsup:


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## Gruntled (Jul 7, 2008)

I've been abusing my XTR Shadow for a year now, it still works beautifully.


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## sq225917 (Dec 28, 2008)

I kinda think it sucks that SRAM do things just to be different to Shimano in terms of lever actuation and positioning, sometimes even making odd ergonomics choices just to be able to offer a different, but worse, feature to Shimano.

They both look great and work well but have their own peculiarities. And their top end stuff is way too expensive, and next year it will be even more expensive.


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## HTFR (Jan 11, 2007)

I have used XT, XTR & X9. Sram shifts way better IMO. It has a very clunky, positive feel to it. You know you shiffted. The Shitmano is really smooth, but leaves too much room for the chain to "slip" around the Cassett. Also the SRAM tention spring is way tighter, making it better for jumps and gnar.

All products will have a dud or two in a batch. Shimano makes good stuff. This talk about the XTR beeing an XC rear D is a bunch of crap. I know lots of people who run Durace and Ultegra on their Rigs. Xtr should not have a problem on a DH bike.

The best setup I have found so far is X9 sifter and rearD, PC990 chain, and a XT casett. Or you could use Ultegra cassett if you wanted. This is THE best bang for the buck. There is no one on this planet who could have a problem with how my bike shifts.


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

This thread is silly. Derailleurs are derailleurs. X0 is designed for XC, Dura-ace is designed for road, and they both make great DH parts. That's like saying a road cassette or chain won't work on a DH bike when thousands of people use them.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Hey Choo, have you actually used anything from the XX group yet mate...? "They", as usual are teasing us the guggers...damn marketing!


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Sim2u said:


> Hey Choo, have you actually used anything from the XX group yet mate...? "They", as usual are teasing us the guggers...damn marketing!


Ummm... i probably have. I don't know if i have or not. I just get parts from Shimano themselves or Blackbox @ sram. I ride em, roast them, smile and tell them what i think.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

excellent...you would know though, visually they are not the same and the action is also slightly different.

I liked the rear mech more than the previous incarnation but the out-board distance from the hanger....well...? I still am unsure at this time. What are your OP's thus far though?


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Sim2u said:


> excellent...you would know though, visually they are not the same and the action is also slightly different.
> 
> I liked the rear mech more than the previous incarnation but the out-board distance from the hanger....well...? I still am unsure at this time. What are your OP's thus far though?


Well... i've fiddled around with some unlabeled, unrecognizable set up from Sram.. but i can't share pictures with it... it was unreal though. effortless, crisp, typical sram snappy, but slick as well. And weighed as much... if not less... than a pubic hair.

not so much cool stuff from shimano yet.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

chooofoojoo said:


> Well... i've fiddled around with some unlabeled, unrecognizable set up from Sram.. but i can't share pictures with it... it was unreal though. effortless, crisp, typical sram snappy, but slick as well. And weighed as much... if not less... than a pubic hair.
> 
> not so much cool stuff from shimano yet.


Sram X.X?


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Cheers! said:


> Sram X.X?


well.. yes. i guess i will have to admit i had my grubby hands on an XX set up...


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Did your test mule set have the dual levers at all with the adjustable bottom lever...? or the single trigger with newer double action set up...?


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

Saint. Spring is ridiculously stong, and the things burly as hell, plus its way cheaper than XTR.
My riding buddy just ripped his XTR shadow off his Stab (Which it came with as standard BTW!).


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