# Nitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

As you guys are starting to see, the Bt21 is appearing finally. I was able to help gearbest get set up to carry the light.

Nitefighter BT21 1800LM Cree XM L2 2 LEDs Water-resistant Mountain Bike Lights-15.46 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

NITEFIGHTER?BICYCLE LIGHT

Update: For ease of finding the main information, I am changing this post to cover initial testing and impressions of the light (plenty of pics!!!)

And time to start the review. DHL was kind and came on a holiday to bring me my light!

First up the case. OMG THE CASE!!!! Quality is GREAT. Very solid, well built, TOP NOTCH. And for me, it feeds my need, MY NEED FOR ORANGE!!!



















All kinds of storage space, enough for second light and pack once you remove gigantic charger. ALso a mesh pouch for storing the small stuff (bands, velcro, whatever else you want to put in it, is got a ton of space too)

Next up parts list:

-Light head: Weight 93g (35ish above yinding for reference), Lumens Id say around 1200 on turbo is my "guess" maybe a bit more but optics make it difficult to judge.

-Charger: 2000mA (yeap 2 amp charger) big solid charger with indicator, very nice.

-Battery pack with pouch: Rubber housing around pack, not cheap thin stuff either. Pouch is dual strap long center velcro tabs to hold pack inside with proper eyelet hole for cable. Uses the nice thick magicshine (available at DX too) 20awg cable. IS true to Capacity (giving margin of error)

-Extension cable, also 20awg MS/DX cable!

-ACTUAL USABLE HELMET MOUNT. Has the rubber type foam on the back, uses 2 long velcro straps for easy use on vented helmets (very excited because sons helmet cant fit an adhesive gopro mount not can my commuting helmet)

-rolled up velcro cable strap (yeap they thought of holding the cables to the frame too, got you covered)

-And Finally, UNDERSTANDABLE and very clear instructions with charts .

Nitefighter thought this one out heavily and I swear spent time reading these forums and learning what we all need. Too bad BT40S kits dont come with all these goodies too.










And WHAT YOU ALL HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR. My "Lab tests" https://ficdn.mtbr.com/images/icons/icon14.png

First up tear down:

Single plate for emitters, can tell by looking at phosphor that these arent 3c, but honestly im kind of liking 4C, think my "winter lights" will be this tint.










This part bummed me out, and DO NOT FOR THE LOVE OF ANYTHING, REMOVE THE SILICONE BUTTON.....Dont ask why I know that, but that shiny center ring around the silicone button is pressed in, holds the button, you arent getting that ring out or getting that button back in... but the driver mounting. 2 screws that sit being the emitters, have a layer of silicone to insulate driver from emitter board contact (if you get brave and try to remove driver which I advise against, make sure to put a new layer of silicone on). Remove the screws, driver doesnt move.....its siliconed in! but no reason to mess with it anyway. Youll see why below.










Also, CAN FIT LEDDNA/GLOWWORM OPTICS, but requires different much thinner oring. Carclo seem to fit right in. OR unless you like to ride in heavy downpours, just take the orings out and put the LEDDNA optics in. they fit TIGHT into face plate so small light rain wont bother it.

Why you can just not even open the light unless you want to change tint or optics:



















Ya thats only high not even turbo.

Heres my video review:









You can find more in depth details of these tests starting on page 8 of this thread.

Summary: LOVE THIS LIGHT, turbo gets HOT!!! but except for guys that really get some speed going, turbo is overkill anyway (heat causes it to not push maximum output for long). Everything it comes with OH YA, WORTH THE MONEY!!!

No im not excited at all. :aureola:


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

I predict very bright future for this light


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Very interested! Awaiting review (or at least in stock so I can order).

-Garry


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I wonder where they put the driver on this thing. Seems like a pretty small spot underneath the button, unless they take the circuit and split it in multiple parts. Or maybe it's using one of those round flashlight drivers.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

So this price is good for 5 more days? Also I'm assuming this price is for the lighthead only?


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Driver is probably FET based, square type with, possibly, 2 boards (but it can be done with one board only).

Yes, the price is for light head only, can't expect a battery pack and a light for 15$


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Worst case scenario is that the back side of led board is actually the driver and there's a minimal heat transfer path to those nice looking fins. We will find out soon enough.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

varider said:


> Worst case scenario is that the back side of led board is actually the driver and there's a minimal heat transfer path to those nice looking fins.


99% unlikely!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No im 99.999% sure it uses a flashlight style driver just Below the button or square as Sirius said.

Price i have no clue on, its lighthead only obviously, but till Sunday night my time, I wont have any more info.


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## Broadica (Mar 28, 2008)

The gopro mount can be rotate to the correct orientation. They appear to be addition accessory added on top of the oring bar mount in the complete kit.

Can be seen in this YouTube review. 




Hope it help


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

But the GoPro mount is clearly made wrong for this lamp. If you rotate it 90° it will be off center. Might still work if the bottom of the BT21 is flat but will look weird.









I asked Andy about the mount as pictured with the BT70 some time ago and he said they were aware of the problem and that it would be resolved when that lamp went into production.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Actually being off-center makes me happy, light will sit at more centralized position 

And they may have fixed it by now. We dont know yet.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Does this mean that the light head won't be hitting amazon like Andy was saying originally?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tigris, if possible as an option I would prefer standard Magicshine like mount. I bet I'm not the only one ;-)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ledoman, ill see what's up with that next week. Ive seen them both ways and they call the gorpro one and "adapter" so im hoping it comes with both.

As for amazon, I can't tell you a single thing on that. I simply helped gearbest get them by getting them the info to who they needed to talk to, that was it. So I have NO IDEA but I can guess I would think they still do.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

The instructions in the BT21 user manual call for attaching the lamp to the bars with one of the O-rings. Says under Features, GoPro Adapter Included. So it's just an extra, like the wide angle lense that comes with the complete BT40S package. Doubt it would be included with the solo lamp, as none of the other extras are; the plastic mount is standard. Listing on GB says lamp and nothing else.

https://www.nitefighter.com/upload/file/NITEFIGHTER_BT21_USER_MANUAL..jpg


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Was curious because it seems like they were supposed to arrive at Amazon about a week ago and no sign of them, plus no mention of it from Andy so I'm assuming whatever was going to end up there is going to hit GB first since it would make sense...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

And read the details of the light on the site, gopro mount is supposed to be included. I'm gonna be peeved if its not lol. But for $15 can't complain too much hehe.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well did some testing tonight, glad I ordered an adapter to mount my phone for video use, night time video is way better than my ion air. But can't go off road really, phone and adapter mount wont survive that for long lol.

But it'll work for the time being till I can afford a better Sony or gopro.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Video linked above shows full bundle so it is understandable that the gopro mount is included. Now when I think about it, after GB gets the products in stock and updates products images it is more likely to me that the light head (not the bundle) will come with regular magicshine tipe mount only. And that's ok with me, I have just enough space for this light on my handlebar extender. 

@tigris99. Have you considered xiaomi yi? I don't have 100$ to burn right now but if I did, Yi would be my first & best choice.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its out of stock with GB atm. GJHS recommended it as well. BUt in all honesty, I shouldnt be burning up extra cash beyond the bt21 (since Im going to have 2). Got too much other projects going on atm since cree has released new bin LEDs, just preordered a few for my lights. Hopefully going to be ready for the BT21 to get my specs installed right after initial review. If it needs it anyway....lol, might just end up changing optics and adding a remote.

Actually that camera is completely out, only works with android devices nothing else. If I cant at least do everything by lugging it into my computers its just a paperweight,lol. Sad cause really looks like a great camera for the price


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Thanks Tigris. Subscribed.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Would the fenix battery case be usable with it?


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Mountainking7 said:


> Would the fenix battery case be usable with it?


Physically, probably yes, depending on connectors size (I have BT40S but not the Fenix case so I can't test if connectors fit properly) but you would really want to use 2S2P battery pack (2S3P for longer runs) with this light. 
BT40S is driven pretty OK and if we can judge by that, BT21 will not be underdriven, so even if you use 2 x quality Panasonic 3400mAh cells you would probably get only hour, hour and half at best running @ max.

Fenix case is good for *1 x* XM-L/2/XP-L and even better if you don't go beyond 600 lumens.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Sirius9 said:


> Physically, probably yes, depending on connectors size (I have BT40S but not the Fenix case so I can't test if connectors fit properly) but you would really want to use 2S2P battery pack (2S3P for longer runs) with this light.
> 
> BT40S is driven pretty OK and if we can judge by that, BT21 will not be underdriven, so even if you use 2 x quality Panasonic 3400mAh cells you would probably get only hour, hour and half at best running @ max.
> 
> Fenix case is good for *1 x* XM-L/2/XP-L and even better if you don't go beyond 600 lumens.


Fenix case will only work with changing connector, but yes it'll Work (I have 2). No light works with the fenix case WITHOUT CHANGING CONNECTOR ON CASE. Well except the ne fenix light it was designed for.

Nothing work with using it, I have my pumped up yinding running on a fenix case with keeppower Panasonic 3400s and plenty of run time so far. Ya if you going to be out for a long ride, if using a 2 cell case bring spare cells. But I your going to be out more than an hour I would expect you'd have a hydropack so then can just use a 4 cell.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Not only will you lose runtime with the 2 cell Fenix case, but your light won't stay at full output as long due to voltage sag. If your dead set on running 2 cells and want max output as long as possible, then I suggest using cells with less voltage drop (usually sold as "high drain") or run 4.35v cells (which then require a 4.35v charger).

-Garry


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Oh I see. Thanks for all this information guys. Will work but needs an adapter and less runtimes it seems. It's a trade off I don't mind.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Its out of stock with GB atm. GJHS recommended it as well. BUt in all honesty, I shouldnt be burning up extra cash beyond the bt21 (since Im going to have 2). Got too much other projects going on atm since cree has released new bin LEDs, just preordered a few for my lights. Hopefully going to be ready for the BT21 to get my specs installed right after initial review. If it needs it anyway....lol, might just end up changing optics and adding a remote.
> 
> Actually that camera is completely out, only works with android devices nothing else. If I cant at least do everything by lugging it into my computers its just a paperweight,lol. Sad cause really looks like a great camera for the price


Xiaomi just released an IOS app in the iTunes Store and the white Yi is in stock. You didn't want the green one?
Original XiaoMi Yi 1080P Ambarella A7LS WIFI Sports Action Camera-73.79 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

If you didn't yet get the MI, you would want to make sure you don't mind it not having image stabilisation.....


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

None of them have image stabilization.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its not ios either... I use windows 8.... Android/google security is a sorry excuse of a bad joke (had my google account hacked and card account wiped out twice in a year cause if it.) and trying not to go to the dark side of apple proprietary crap.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

GJHS said:


> None of them have image stabilization.


The SJCAM does come with image stabilisation but the 60FPS mode is basically crap...


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Now you all got me curious, I ran 2 cell last night and it seemed to work fine with the yinding, in fact after 2 hours on medium the indicator was still green so I am assuming very little voltage sag...and this was with protected ncr18650b's which are not the best for high drain applications


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I just had to place an order for one, anticipating a jump in price once the first batch sells out and people realize the potential it has. Even at twice the price it should still be a bargain


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Looks like prolly need extension cable to connect to battery pack. Any one know if the cable they sell at gearbest is any good?


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

pwu_1 said:


> Any one know if the cable they sell at gearbest is any good?


Do you have a link?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Check out the fenix case thread, garry linked the best cable available and in stock in states or china DX warehouse. The GB cable is same as stock 22awg cables for most lights, dx cable is the magicshine cable 20awg for 1/3 the price.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Check out the fenix case thread, garry linked the best cable available and in stock in states or china DX warehouse. The GB cable is same as stock 22awg cables for most lights, dx cable is the magicshine cable 20awg for 1/3 the price.


Here is the GB one.
http://m.gearbest.com/diy-parts-and-tools/pp_139173.html

But I guess if it's free shipping it won't matter where I buy it from


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The one from dx is better. Bigger internal wire, thicker casing. Same as the magicshine ones which is what everybody (including me now) swear by.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Well someone should order that one from GB and see if it is the same cable. If I end up with a GB order soon I'll throw one or two in. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its not the same, I got 2 in my last order its literally like they cut them in half to wire to the batteries and light heads for the yindings lol.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ah, ok. Thanks for the heads up. 

-Garry


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Any links to the dx wires? What would be the problem to use the GB wires?


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Woa price just went up to $56.99. Guess I'm not getting one


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

What was the previous price?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Dx wires: Cheap 5.4mm Male to Female Extension Cable for SKU 29489/30864 (100cm)

Thinner wires will cause more voltage drop meaning you won't get max brightness, or at least not for as long.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok first thing, I DID POST PRICE WAS WRONG ON THESE lol. So dont say I didn't warn you guys.



As of this moment they are "out of stock" so no more orders accidently go through.



BUT PLEASE UNDERSTAND, it was an error on the person that listed it in the site, both prices. Not me or our rep. Working in it as fast as possible, sorry for frustrations if this causes any (and ill be the first one dealing with it cause I ordered 2 bt21s lol)


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

pwu_1 said:


> Woa price just went up to $56.99. Guess I'm not getting one


Huh, where are you seeing that? Still $15.46 when I look:

Nitefighter BT21 1800LM Cree XM L2 2 LEDs Water-resistant Mountain Bike Lights-15.46 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

Edit: Well now it say says Promo ends in 00:00:00; when I checked before still said like three or four days.

Will GearBest be issuing refunds?


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Says 63.48 for me lol, freaky!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Update:



Ok gopro adapter is INCLUDED, its optional part as far as known, so both mounts should be in the box.





Next, omg we ARE REALLY SORRY, but they can't honor that price, its actually a loss for them before they even include shipping for free. So all orders are being cancelled/refunded.



Details to follow later tonight.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Figured it was too good to be true so I'm not upset. Awaiting real price and provided it's not 60 bucks I'm still in for one


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wont be lol, no worries.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok guys that is the KIT PRICE, not just the head. Working in just head too but imo kit is pretty good being the batteries.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well listing is still screwed up because continues to say Power Supply... Excluded.

tigris did you find out whether NiteFighter fixed the GoPro alignment issue on this or are they just including the "wrong" one?

Anyway still Out of Stock.

BTW this package wholesales for $40. BT40S package for $38 and the ever so elusive BT70 supposedly $64.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

If it includes the BAK 5200mah pack then it'll be a nice setup for the money for those looking to get into night riding with minimal investment


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok, next up:

Confirmation, head only is coming. So dont be scared by the $60 price tag. I do wonder if the person putting it on the site is new lol.

Also I will make sure they correct the listing both ways so it shows correctly.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well now they've taken down the kit price and it's back at $15.46, Promo clock has been restarted from the top.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They are all goofed up, thnx for the update ill talk to nefertari let her know.

Just dont try to order right now till I know what's going on. They may be all messed up over there. Someone is getting head, kit and lord knows what else confused. Just bare with me.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

We're with you Tigris


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

What a mess. I guess there will be plenty of unhappy people, they must have gotten dozens if not 100+ orders...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They had 30 lights sold, and I had just ordered 2 when she realized things were goofed up.

No body should complain much, I did try to tell everyone that there was no way. But right now trying to sort it out, nefertari is awesome and definitely got her matters in order, just getting the rest to fall in line. Happy she's who we deal with, she doesn't mess around.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

What exactly was wrong?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Price error on website, big error. Feel bad but nothing me or nefertari even knew about till it was too late.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

I was contemplating ordering one, but had just ordered another 18$ KD10, and I was suspicious of the price.
Says no battery at 63$... if its decent quality it may well be worth it.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Price error on website, big error. Feel bad but nothing me or nefertari even knew about till it was too late.


You mean the $15.46 is the wrong price? I still see it advertised at this price...


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Link to it says $15.46 but when you click on it, new page says $56.66.

Also still says Power Supply... Not included/(excluded) and Out of Stock.

Got a refund from PayPal. Message from GearBest said Hot Selling Item ran out of stock.

Feh.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

their fixing it, but wont be available for order till its all fixed. Sorry for the mess guys we got it under control, just slowly lol.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Looks like a good 'deal' missed  Can't complain though if it was a genuine mistake ;-)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

It was, someone seriously messed up in a hurry before Chinese holiday started.

Heres the correct page, they are fixing the site now so it works correctly:

Nitefighter BT21 1800LM Cree XM L2 2 LEDs Water-resistant Mountain Bike Lights-63.48 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Out of budget for a budget light  Hopefully the head only is in the $15-20 range...


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Still says Out of Stock.


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

Will light head only be available? 

$63 seems reasonable given this light is one level above a budget light. I wonder if they could give us a coupon to bring it closer to $50?


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

If $63 is including 4 batteries, yes, it is reasonable. Else, its a bit pricey as a fenix can be had for $70...


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

They are decent BAK batteries as well.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

As I said previously, the listing is strictly there because GearBest's system requires a listing before they can stock the item, so it's not there to sell its there to allow them to order and stock it.

Price-wise Netefari should be able able to give a ballpark figure, in all my builds Dora and May could give me the price within a few bucks. Usually the price was a few bucks higher than what the selling price was. Also don't worry about the "initial" price going up, once they set the price with coupon (they love coupons) that price should stay constant for a while and Tigris will quickly have one to review before anyone.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

They did give me 300 points for the inconvenience, however it cancelled out the points I already used for the order...not that they were much.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya lighthead will be available soonish. Not sure time frame there yet.

Also, found out another problem....nitefighter isn't wanting to make anymore gopro mount adapters. The bt21s wont be coming with them anymore.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Also, found out another problem....nitefighter isn't wanting to make anymore gopro mount adapters. The bt21s wont be coming with them anymore.


I wonder why not? That kind of set them apart and was a nice touch (assuming they are done right).

-Garry


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Nitefighter put the lighthead up on ebay. Buy it now for $32.95(free shipping) or there is 1 auction ending Friday night.
Nitefighter BT21 Bright LED Front Bicycle Light Light Head Only with O Rings | eBay

I really want to try this light but since I already have 2 KD2 that I changed to the Neutral White emitters and I'm not sure I like the 5 mode switch I think I'll pass on this one.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

pwu_1 said:


> I really want to try this light but since I already have 2 KD2 that I changed to the Neutral White emitters and I'm not sure I like the 5 mode switch I think I'll pass on this one.


Yes. 4 brightness levels are too much in my opinion. And one other thing I don't understand is this. It says that a double click starts the strobe mode (click twice in 1,5 sek). Does this mean that you can't switch between more than two modes faster than 1,5 sek? If so, it is really stupid.

(why can't they just let the strobe mode die and be forgotten)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The Chinese let strobe mode die? HA! HA! HA! That's the funniest thing I've heard all day! 

Seriously though, they should have made strobe access a double click from OFF only. Hmm . . . then I guess some road riders would be irritated that they can't go quick to strobe to alert other vehicles.

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

^or they could just do what I do and run one light on one side of the bars strobe, then another light on the other continuous. Also make sure to throw in a 3rd xm-l based light on strobe on the bottom of the seat like I do...maximum offense mode


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

"Let the strobe mode die"! 
LOL, not a chance  strobe mode is in chinese culture sign for happiness, billions of chinese all over the world would be disappointed is strobe was removed


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

garrybunk said:


> The Chinese let strobe mode die? HA! HA! HA! That's the funniest thing I've heard all day!
> 
> Seriously though, they should have made strobe access a double click from OFF only. Hmm . . . then I guess some road riders would be irritated that they can't go quick to strobe to alert other vehicles.
> 
> -Garry


As a road rider I would love to see a 2 mode light. High beam and low beam. Same way as in my car. "They" should get on doing that instead of putting in stupid strobe modes.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The bt40 strobe is hidden, im assuming this one is set up the exact same way being power levels are set the same. And its actually not that easy to get strobe, I can change levels as fast as I want on bt40. I'll check tonight since we can expect bt21 to be about the same.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> The bt40 strobe is hidden


I was not aware that BT40S has a strobe, how do you activate it?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well the Nitefighter BT40S *has no Strobe*, the BT21 is Double Click.

Most Strobe modes in MTB lamps are useless for commuters to "be seen" because they tend to blind oncoming traffic. At least the KD XM-L2 + 12 SMD "angel eye" model is not too bad with just the glow rings pulsating, but the center XM-L2 on Strobe is way over the top. Muh wah ha ha.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

andychrist said:


> Well the Nitefighter BT40S is Long Press for Strobe


I have two of them and long press on both is power off, that's it, holding any button any longer will not do anything!


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Sirius9 said:


> I have two of them and long press on both is power off, that's it, holding any button any longer will not do anything!


Oops, you're right, BT40S doesn't have Strobe, Long Press is Off. Had it confused with my 872 clone. But BT21 Strobe IS double-click, according to the user manual.

Incidentally, most MagicShine lamps don't have Strobe. Funny but a lot of reviewers complain about this, although MS does not indicate anywhere that those lamps include that mode.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> I wonder why not? That kind of set them apart and was a nice touch (assuming they are done right).
> 
> -Garry


I have no idea and their doing the "we want huge commitment" bs. Can't believe Vancbiker is the only entity smart enough to market them for the masses lol.

I dont know why ppl complain about having strobe. The lights are marketed for all cyclists so imo ppl need to deal with it, its not hurting anything lol.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> I have no idea and their doing the "we want huge commitment" bs. Can't believe Vancbiker is the only entity smart enough to market them for the masses lol.


My guess is that the percentage of buyers that want GoPro compatibility is pretty small. They want to sell lights by the thousands and only a few dozen of those would order a GoPro option.

For a small time retired guy like me, it's OK beer/tooling/bike part money, but no one's gonna get rich on GoPro light adapters.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

So as of right now, I see two listing:

The full kit WITH battery and charger for $76.99
Listed as "Out of Stock" so you can't order it.
Package Contents: 1 x Nitefighter BT21 MTB Light, 1 x 7.4V 5.2Ah BAK Battery Pack, 1 x 8.4V 2A Charger, 3 x O-ring, 1 x Headband, 1 x Bandage, 1 x Extending Line, 1 x English Manual

Light Head & Accessories WITHOUT the battery and charger for $36.83
Can be added to your cart - with Promo prince ending in a little over six days.
Package Contents: 1 x Nitefighter BT21 MTB Light, 3 x O-ring, 1 x Headband, 1 x Bandage, 1 x Extending Line, 1 x Pouch, 1 x English Manual

Based on our history with GearBest, I suspect there will be a coupon code to bring the price down a bit further. That will probably put the set without the battery a few dollars over the Yinding light head only option.

Considering NiteFighter BT-21 includes O-Rings, Head Band, Pouch, Extension Cable, and Bandage, that would still be a pretty good deal. I'm guessing the "Pouch" is the battery pouch. I'm also making an educated assumption that the "Bandage" is a piece of double sided Velcro (which is probably used to attach the light head mount part of the head band to the helmet - though possibly "Head Band" means the helmet mount and "Bandage" means Velcro for securing the cable.)

Maybe when we get this all straightened out, we can get them to correct the parts list to make it less ambiguous.

Since people are grumbling about their first attempt at a Go-Pro adapter, I doubt NiteFighter wants to swallow the cost getting new ones made, that correct their previous error. Hence the classic "minimum order to cover our retooling costs" stance.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

IF this can be made in the $30-32 ballpark and after the review, it might be a good backup/2nd light for the 'omgzor' effect while riding


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Just be patient young ones, all good things come in time


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Just be patient young ones, all good things come in time


You don't have to tell me


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol. Ya you know what im dealing with atm.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Anybody find this weird or its only me?

*Nitefighter BT40S:*
Utilizes four Cree XP-G2 neutral white LEDs, max 1600lumens output

*Nitefighter BT21*
Utilizes two Cree XM-L2 neutral white LEDs, max 1800 lumens output

Fenix BC30 advertises 1200 lumens and 1800 lumens on BOOST....

I feel like the BT21 is being overly optimistic on its specs....


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Xp-g2 put out less lumens than xm-l2, but uses 4.

Bt21 and bc30 both use same emitters, xm-l2.

Fenix is being overly optimistic just light nitefighter. They are basing it on simple calculation (at least nitefighter and fenix dont go crazy saying 4000lumens like other Chinese companies). Based on rated current (amps) vs emitter specs they rate it at 900lumens per emitter. This means they claim driver is pushing emitters at 2.4amps roughly (bin and such can bring that number lower but well use that for this).

Yinding is specced at 2.5 amps.

These figured do not include:

Losses due to optics
Inefficiencies in driver
Voltage sage due to resistances from battery pack and wire feeding the light.

Is 900 lumens possible per xm-l2 u2 emitter, easily. But you loose around 15-20% at the optics alone.

Specced, ya easily true, actual ouput, hell no. But have a fenix ran through a sphere test, you'll find its not 1800. But probably closer than the bt21 or any others optimistic rating.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Judging from the specs listed on the fenix, I would have to disagree that on all the modes besides possibly burst (as no runtime is listed) that it would be closer. Basically on the mode listed as "high" it is rated at 1200 lumens, on burst it is listed as 1800, so one would assume that high is 75% of max. So I take the 1 hour 50 minutes runtime with 2600mah on high, and deduct another 25% which leaves me 82.5 mins, or 1 hour, 22 mins and 30 seconds.

The nitefighter has a 5200 mah battery pack so it's easy to translate this. Since it is exactly double the capacity, and the rated runtime on turbo is 2 hours, one can safely assume that it is being driven harder than the fenix, which would run for 2 hours, 45 mins with the same capacity battery


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Just for more accurate calculations. 5200mAh pack assumes 2600 cells which depends on quality deliver different runtimes at different currents. So there is no linear calculation. Sanyo 2600 for example would give you somewhere between 2400 and 2500 mAh in reality. See this comparator: Battery test-review 18650 comparator To bad there is no BAK cells tested unless someone would send them to HKJ.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yes, this is true. Regardless of a 5 or 10% possible discrepancy it should still be pulling a good bit more current though. Assuming the bt21 lists runtime based on the theoretical capacity that would put turbo mode around 2.6amps


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Also worth noting, KIR tested the yinding at 1,7 to 2 amps on high based on voltage so on the bt21 on high will be more like medium on the yinding, turbo should be a modest increase over the yinding high


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I'm curious about how bright the button light is. Since your head is over the handlebar, this light may shine directly into your eyes. It could be extremely distracting.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

no worries ill cover all this once it gets here. My personal aim for it is helmet light but well see. I have bt40 for bars (and mj880 clone, xx x3, kd 2, 2 yindings)


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

I am still curious as to what the leds are mounted as the button appears to be ahead of where the leds mount. Also there must be a gap between the leds to allow access to the driver as there is no access from the rear. 

It looks like they should be mounted to the case.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Easy explaination well for emitters anyway. More I look at pictures (mine will hopefully be here in a few days) I think its basically a flashlight driver stuffed in there behind the emitter board. Which really what's a flashlight driver vs these other drivers, not a dang thing besides they are round and 2 separate boards stacked in some cases. But knos its hard to see depending on pic, but button is behind leds, leds are on optics not reflectors so leds will sit very shallow in the head.

SIRIUS. Post that pic you made showing how leds are sitting inside the case.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

So do you think the driver's board runs perpendicular to the back of the emitters'?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm thinking so, maybe like Sirius said. Its hard to say being no rear access face plate screws are centered.



I'm just as anxious as all of you lol just just waiting for them to put in stock so I can "order" my sample. 



Looking at pics, optics appear that they will give similar beam pattern to yinding/kd 2 stock. BUT REMEMBER, optics can be changed in 2 minutes time. And gearbest is going to be stocking optics soon.

Oh @ Andy, look at kit page, clear cache on your browser cause it shows that pack included, bak cells.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Sorry tigris but I was talking about GearBest's listing for the BT40S, where it STILL says "Powered by four BAK 18650 rechargeable Li-on batteries, 7.4V 5200mAh( not included )" in the main text. You have to get all the way to the bottom of the copy to see Package Contents with everything in it. I can imagine a lot of viewers simply seeing "( not included ") and reading no further, knowing the price. Or even if they continued, still come away not willing to risk the purchase- unless maybe they also saw my question and GB's answer below that. 









Other thing that's confusing in listing for BT21, says:

"4 color and 5 modes LED indicator displays remaining battery capacity, tell you when to replace batteries"

This kinda gives the impression that batteries are either disposable or integrated with the lamp head somehow. Think the word GB was groping for was "recharge" rather than "replace." Eh.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Andy, do me a favor, cause im busy as hell atm. Take all these (including the bandage thing) put in a list with which light they each apply to and on me with it please. That way I can email it to them to correct all of it.

Appreciate you catching all this.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Well this may be interesting. I will try to measure draw on the yinding myself in the next day but everyone's runtime and kir's testing lead me to believe that they are right around 2 amps. Nitefighter rates the bt40 as 3 hours on supplied battery pack but garry tested at 2,14a which means it'll be a bit shy of rated runtime, looks like they rounded all the numbers up. Anyway the bt21 is rated at 2 hours on the same pack, so it must draw significantly more. Am thinking this is going to definitely be much brighter than the yinding, it looks as if it's indeed 600mah more current being consumed


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I learned the ratings mean total crap. Im betting we can get proper runtime, but like all but the best companies, cells are not full balance charged together, the dropped to storage level, then assembled in packs.

Yinding got more proper information listed thanks to GHJS' hard work trying to get everything as right as possible. Here we're at the mercy of the product pics/add (though once tested I may be able to get them to update).

Remember GJHS put countless hours into the yinding over a couple months. 

But well know soon enough, tonight when I get home I plan on doing a bit of work to my testing set up so I can get more in depth info (and be able to do some video and pics that are not on a messy work bench)


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I tested the yinding tonight and a few others for amp draw. For reference I used my Gemini Olympia and action leds listed amp draw, and also a magicshine mj808. The conclusion that I got was that my meter reads right around. 07 to. 1 amp low or it could be resistance in the chain. Power was provided by the nitefighter BAK pack fully charged. Here is the yinding on high









The KD2 and the mj880 clone are both about. 1 amps behind it at 1.7x

I know there are no hard and fast rules in place for the manufacturers ratings, but I also know that it's not often they will short change the runtime. I really, really think that we will find that this pulls about ~500mah more on turbo than the stock YD. The question is how well the heat will dissipate


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Manbeer, try making up some thicker gauge leads that are fairly short. This is key in the flashlight world. I use a set I made out of 12ga wire. Attached Radio Shack banana plugs on one end and just "tinned" the other ends with solder. If your stock leads are pretty good you may not see a huge jump. If your stock leads are junk you will see a significant jump.

I have a post over at BLF showing my original and later revised setup for testing amp draw of bike lights. Really handy setups. Here it is: Contraption to Measure Current Pulled from Bike Light Battery Packs - REVISED - See Post #12 | BudgetLightForum.com

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So nitefighter is being a bit slow
... Hopefully have mine by the weekend.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, took a minute to check you link, I like that idea, easier to deal with and adjust things, and those connectors are easy to find. Thnx for that. Make my testing set up project alot easier.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Damn. Very slow....


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Any word on when they expect these bad boys in stock?


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

manbeer said:


> Any word on when they expect these bad boys in stock?


I got mine today which i ordered through ebay. Dispatched last Thursday and it arrived yesterday (Tuesday)! That has got to be a record. Very nice looking light! At last superficially it looks to be of the same build quality as the BT40s (which I also have). I haven't plugged it in to test it yet. These nitefighter lights are clearly one or two steps above the cheapo chinese lights we've come to love (and own too many of!). At least on a par with magicshine (although I have never owned a magicshine).


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Damn it, I'm jealous right now. Let me know once you get to try it out... I need to live vicariously through you for now


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Got a yinding to compare to?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Tigris99, you get your sample for review yet? 

SlSto, you realize you are obligated to do a full tear down and review now, right? 


-Garry


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> Tigris99, you get your sample for review yet?
> 
> SlSto, you realize you are obligated to do a full tear down and review now, right?
> 
> -Garry


Oh dear - me and tear down i can just about open can of drink!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No garry not even shipped.yet....


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Still waiting for a tear-down report on build quality and heat sinking before I decide whether it's an improvement on my 2 upgraded Yindings.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

If this truly draws 2.6 amps then it may not be well suited to a 2 cell pack, as my Fenix on ncr18650b is dropping from 8.40 to 6.85v on a 2.1 amp load


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nothing out of the ordinary there

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/11772

Correct me if I wrong, but cells (2 vs 4 cells 8.4v pack) will not change that voltage drop under load. A second pair parallel simply doubles the time it takes for the cells to discharge. Thus prolonging discharge curve.

I have ran my 2.4-2.5A actual (not calculated) in my fenix with keeppower ncr18650b and no issues. Same with my mj880 clone than I have running at 2.9-3.0A. I have less run time at 3A vs 2.5A but on a fresh charge 2 vs 4 cell pack there is no difference visually between either light visually and measured light the little variation can be in my ghetto set up since I dont have a sphere and use my phone app.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Last night I ran a test using about 8 different battery setups on my Olympia which is rated for a 2.12 amp draw at 8.4 v and found that the 2 cell suffered significantly more than the 4 and 6 cell packs. There was almost a full volt variance actually between the 2 cells and 4 cells using the same cells. The difference between 4 and 6 cell was much smaller, presumably because I wasn't really drawing enough current for it to matter


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

This is where Archie and vanc need to jump in, im still working on wrapping my head around it but understanding I have thus far is this:



Driver style and emitter count play a huge role in this. 2.1A on 3 emitters is different than 2.1A on 2 emitters. 2.1A on 3 emitters is either grossly under driven or more likely series circuit for emitters. Which means driver has to boost voltage right away. 



There is alot more to it than just voltage drop vs current draw. 2 cells run a yinding just fine but same cells on a bt40 or ssx3 is a whole different thing. More emitters require more power to run so going to pull harder on the packs.



And the whole "watts" thing im working on understanding but starting to see why running comparisons need calculations done using watts. Like emitters are rated with lumens per watt.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah its difficult to understand exactly what is causing what. It appears that the setups that are series wired are the ones most susceptible to this though. Fwiw i know that the voltage indicator is in no way a accurate way of determining the state of the battery but I can use a light drawing say, 2.1 amps that has 2 emitters and it'll remain green, but on 3 and 4 emitter lights it will go straight to blinking red. It also appears that all the drivers are boosting accordingly and drawing more amperage as the volts drop so I doubt that the output would be affected much either way until the voltage really drops low. I'm curious if this nitefighter has a low voltage protection on the light head itself and what it is set to. If it does, a decent alternative may be to use 4.35v cells or high drain cells instead of my protected ncr18650b


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> Correct me if I wrong, but cells (2 vs 4 cells 8.4v pack) will not change that voltage drop under load. A second pair parallel simply doubles the time it takes for the cells to discharge. Thus prolonging discharge curve.


You are wrong. Forget for a moment we have cells in series. It is not important for our case, we need to look just cells in parallel. 
Compare voltage curves at 1A and 2A. This is same as running 2 cells in parallel and 1 single cell at same load. In parallel setup load is shared and voltage drop is smaller.

If battery pack is under 2A load and we have single cell it is (obviously) under 2A load. If we use 2 cells in parallel then each cell has load of 1A and thus lover voltage drop. I hope you got it.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ledoman, does that mean that if it is a higher power lamp, it would be preferable to use a pack with say 6x2200 mah cells that 4x3400s, correct? That may be the reason that gloworm uses a 6 cell pack to make the same capacity in the Xs, vs the 4 cell in others

Edit, I read the comparison chart wrong. The mj880 came with the 6 cell, not the gloworm 

Either way, for higher power lights more cells trumps trumps higher capacity cells, correct?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

More cells you put in parallel more mAh you get and load is shared to the more cells. So you put less stress (load) to each cell which results in smaller voltage drop (hence higher voltage curve). 

Higher voltage is important only in some cases. For example if you have higher resistance in wires, connectors, drivers resulting in bigger voltage drop then you very quickly run into situation when voltage drops below leds Vf and led starts dimming or you prematurely get red status light. There are other situation too. Regulated drivers and many leds, etc.... 

manbeer, yes for more powerful lights tipicaly more cells in parallel is better. You get more mAh and less voltage drop. A rule of tumb would be 1 pair of cells (in series) for one XM-L led. This would give you high output and long enough run time. 
So for 2 leds 2S2P pack is optimum by my opinion. Of course I'm counting on cells with 2600mAh and more.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well there I learned something new today, didn't know load was shared in that sense. Thnx ledoman. Guess I should probably build 6 cell packs (once I find good low resistance protection circuits).


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

The xeccon 7800mah packs seem good for the price. Think it's like 45 bucks and the pouch is amazing. Shipping is a bit pricey but it's flat rate so it makes sense to order a couple


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Batteries have an internal resistance so drop some voltage when under load. The bigger the load the bigger the drop. Thats why your low battery indicator goes to red when on high but is still green on low.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

znomit said:


> Batteries have an internal resistance so drop some voltage when under load. The bigger the load the bigger the drop. Thats why your low battery indicator goes to red when on high but is still green on low.


This part I knew lol.

Im just seriously deciding if 6cell pack is worth the hassle beyond use on my ssx3 and bt40. Bt40 would be a big help if your running high/turbo all the time. Ssx3 same thing, at least for me and my gotta crank the driver up obsession.

But because of all this discussion (which somehow managing to stay half on topic lol) I ordered new toy for the testing set up, digital volt ampere readout (like what ledoman has). Will be mounted in with my air flow generator so I can do all at once.


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## dmc71 (May 16, 2015)

Hi, received BT21 from ebay auction listing in the last couple of days. Did anyone else's come with frosted lenses?
As it happens the front bolts on mine look like they've lost their hex shaping in over-tightening during construction, the recess looks round rather than angular.
Is everyone else's in perfect condition?
I've just posted on the BT40S review thread that I'd tested current draw and wattage on the BT40s and BT21.
The BT21 looks like it pulls 2.4A-2.5A and is around 20w in the process (on highest mode).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No body has theirs yet for the group buy, just the couple that ordered off the eBay auction.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> SIRIUS. Post that pic you made showing how leds are sitting inside the case.


Sorry tigris, I had load of work this week and so little time to hang here with you guys 

So here is that pic and how I think this light is designed, heat from emitters is going straight to cooling fins. Driver is under the button, it probably is small place but it is doable with 2 board setup


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

dmc71 - I recently received mine. My also has frosted lenses. They look like carclo lenses. My hex bolts look rounded but I have put a 2.5mm hex key in and definitely feel an edge and a fit! I haven't tried loosening the bolt though as I am not known for having the best manual dexterity and would probably end up damaging something anyway!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

SlSto said:


> dmc71 - I recently received mine. *My also has frosted lenses. *They look like carclo lenses. My hex bolts look rounded but I have put a 2.5mm hex key in and definitely feel an edge and a fit! I haven't tried loosening the bolt though as I am not known for having the best manual dexterity and would probably end up damaging something anyway!


Crap. I just ordered one last week. I really don't want frosted lenses but it does depend on the degree of frosting I suppose. As long as the frosting doesn't kill the throw it should be okay but if not perhaps other more clearer lenses can be bought. I want mine for helmet duty.

If any one can provide a ( real ) photo of the front of the lamp that would be great.


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## dmc71 (May 16, 2015)

Here are a couple of photos taken with my phone:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'll bet the leddna/glowworm optics will work just fine. Hopefully GB starts stocking them soon.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Okay, the photo helps. These optics look like the standard Gloworm flood optics. I wouldn't call them "frosted" but rather "clouded". Regardless I'm going to expect a beam pattern with limited throw. I do have optics I could play around with, namely the optics in the KD2 duo-clone and my Gloworms. If someone knows the size perhaps I could order some in advance and have them ready if needed.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Anyone here who already got their hands on the BT21 managed to get off the face plate? Curious because this lamp seems like an even better host for my DIY reflecting shield, due to the wider area in front and possibly better thermal management. Think it might be possible to hide most of the lower sandwiched material behind the plate on the BT21 whereas the Yinding is kinda skimpy there so most of the anchoring sheet metal has to stick out in an unsightly mess. Also hoping the separation between lenses means I could cut two separate holes rather than a single oval, so there would be a mullion down the middle for extra support.

Tear down eagerly anticipated!


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I am interesd in knowing if there is flicker visible when on the lower modes. 
With the KD driver, in rain or snow there's a strobe effect. (Called PWM flicker)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I am interesd in knowing if there is flicker visible when on the lower modes.
> 
> With the KD driver, in rain or snow there's a strobe effect. (Called PWM flicker)


Im yet to have a light that doesn't. Just some r worse than others


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

It it is like BT40S (they could basically use the same electronic just shaped to fit different housing) it will be VERY hard to notice any PWM. Personally, I don't see any flickering on BT40S in any mode, but then, I am not sensitive to PWM if it's not extremely pronounced.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

My magicshine mj816 used to be so bad it made my front tire look like it was rolling backwards


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

manbeer said:


> My magicshine mj816 used to be so bad it made my front tire look like it was rolling backwards


trippy


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Im not sensitive to it but I notice it on my test set up. Some bad, some not. Bad ones make the fans look like their going backward.

But out riding, ive been out in high humidity and light fog, no issues visually, but my lights also sit centered (extension to put light ahead of bars and centered) which blocks most of tire view.


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

Hello all.

First, thanks to everyone who developed this thread for the great info. You guys are a true benefit to night riders everywhere!

I'm very interested in one or two of these lights but I'm no expert (my last light was a 1995 Nightsun) and am a bit confused on the light.

On the Gearbest site, at this link: Nitefighter BT21 1800LM Cree XM L2 2 LEDs Water-resistant Mountain Bike Lights-67.90 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com, I see the light for $67.90. The picture shows no mount (did I read that it actually comes with a gopro style mount?) but the description says it mounts to bars with an o-ring. The description also says it comes with batteries and a charger.

On that same page, is the same light for $40.76. It looks like the only difference is that it doesn't come with the battery or charger.

Is this the deal you guys are putting together or is it lower than those prices?

Also, that BT40S for $32.72 looks like an amazing deal. Is that what some of you are running now?

TIA


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Kevin, 
I am not sure if they are posted somewhere but if not, one of us can send you the codes to order at group buy pricing. The one caveat is that you may only use one code once per order so you need to place multiple orders to get multiple pieces. The shipping is free though so it's not really a bit deal. The pricing will drop a bit once the proper codes are applied

And the 67 dollar one is the full kit, the other less expensive option was just for the light head. If you are getting back into night riding the complete sets come with good batteries and chargers and all you will need to get going. I recommend a bt40s for the bars and bt21 for helmet use


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

Rock stars! Thanks a ton!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Be advised, bt21s are just coming into stock this week, so first orders wont be shipping out till end of week.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

tigris99 said:


> Im yet to have a light that doesn't. Just some r worse than others


No visible flicker on the lights I built with l-flex or Mobydrv drivers. Worse on KD drivers.


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

manbeer said:


> And the 67 dollar one is the full kit, the other less expensive option was just for the light head. If you are getting back into night riding the complete sets come with good batteries and chargers and all you will need to get going. I recommend a bt40s for the bars and bt21 for helmet use


Do you have codes for the BT40S kits as well? Looks like those are currently in stock.

I'm curious as to why you guys are going for the BT21 for helmets. Why not BT40S for both? Again, I'm not an expert so I can't read the descriptions and determine the advantages of the BT21 vs. BT40S


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

KevinGT said:


> I'm curious as to why you guys are going for the BT21 for helmets. Why not BT40S for both? Again, I'm not an expert so I can't read the descriptions and determine the advantages of the BT21 vs. BT40S


BT40S has a wide beam, so great on the bars. BT21 haven't heard the report on yet, probably more narrow. But if not, should be a cinch to swap out optics with a pair of 15° TIR lenses for under two bucks. Is also lighter in weight, big plus for helmet mounting. Not that the BT40S is heavy though - love that lamp!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ofroad'bent said:


> No visible flicker on the lights I built with l-flex or Mobydrv drivers. Worse on KD drivers.


Those are custom drivers though, I have no lights using those, all Chinese lights I own are pwm.

@ Kevin

Bt40s may or may not be in stock right this minute. And take a couple days to process order so realm doesn't matter which light you order wont ship till towards end of the week.

Also if you want the codes, post in the group buy thread and well you all the coupon codes.


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

posted, thanks! Didn't even see that other thread. Just saw this one and didn't realize there was one specific to the group buy. Thanks again.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Slightly off topic but just to mention: only way to avoid PWM completely is to use current controlled driver and I think L-Flex is just that (not a cheap driver), Moby Drv is PWM driver but the PWM frequency is set quite high so the noticeable blinking is significantly reduced. I have a few DrJones (Mobydrv...) drivers and they are one of my favorites (I am keeping them for special occasions ) and they can be easily "upgraded" simply by adding current control chips...

P.S. tigris, there is something wrong with your keyboard, every time you hit the "Enter" key it makes, like, 3 times the normal space!!!


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Those are custom drivers though, I have no lights using those, all Chinese lights I own are pwm.


The same here. But I rarely use modes other than max, so it isn't problem for me.

Funny enough, the main frequency is very different among Chinese lights, and often cheap light uses high-frequency PWM with no remarkable flicker, while more expensive ones are almost blinking...


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Sirius9 said:


> Slightly off topic but just to mention: only way to avoid PWM completely is to use current controlled driver and I think L-Flex is just that (not a cheap driver), Moby Drv is PWM driver but the PWM frequency is set quite high so the noticeable blinking is significantly reduced. I have a few DrJones (Mobydrv...) drivers and they are one of my favorites (I am keeping them for special occasions ) and they can be easily "upgraded" simply by adding current control chips...
> 
> P.S. tigris, there is something wrong with your keyboard, every time you hit the "Enter" key it makes, like, 3 times the normal space!!!


I've been wondering if something like the 21 can be upgraded with a Mobydrv driver. Need to see a tear-down.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I've been wondering if something like the 21 can be upgraded with a Mobydrv driver. Need to see a tear-down.


If the layout that Sirius is predicting turns out to be the case, that may wind up being the hot ticket to make a badass light on the cheap. It looks like it'll shed heat well enough


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Wonder how effective those cooling fins will be, given that they are in the shadow of the emitter body. Imagine might be more effective were they raised vertically but the lamp would look a fright. Then again Seca does something similar but they also use a bunch more material in designs of greater complexity. Waiting for tigris to do his wind tunnel test when he gets his.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Andy, I was wondering about that but I think it'll be ok because it looks like the light has a good amount of mass to the body. I was thinking though if it wouldn't be a bad idea to make some type of small diffuser that sticks on and sort of forces the air through the fins


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah I was entertaining the thought of affixing a "cheater" too, manbeer. BTW the BT21 only weighs a few grams more than the Yinding, IIRC.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Guess the body gives the appearance of being larger/heavier due to the fins being so deep


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mine should be here Friday (I hope) as it shipped DHL express yesterday.

@sirius, ya its tapatalk app on my phone, when I edit a post it does that sometimes, ANNOYING AS HELL!!! Lol

Also I can bet this weighs noticeably more than a yinding, im thinking more between ss x2 and 880 clone weight.


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## dmc71 (May 16, 2015)

Cable lengths may be slightly different between lights but my red Yinding weighs 60g without fixing band, the BT21 weighs 90g and BT40s 115g.
I did a fairly unscientific comparison of yinding and BT21 in my very cluttered garage, against a whitewashed wall.
At the same distance from the wall and side by side (remember the BT21 doesn't have clear lenses but does have around 2.5A rather than 2A), the centre spots of the 2 were of similar size and intensity as i moved the 2 lights further away from the wall, centre hot spot fading at same distances, however at close range before the hot spot faded ( or more likely increased in size to the point that the beams of both lights merged) the BT21 has a noticeable square (not round) spill. It was as if the extra amps/watts were generating only the extra spill rather than larger more intense hot spot. 
Like i say not very scientific because they were at so close a range and as they were side by side the beams quite quickly merged as i moved back from the wall.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice info and pic, thnx. Helps show ppl size versus yinding. 

I wont be doing a good comparison test only because my Yindings push 2.3A (black one) and 2.7A (Blue one) Since I modify everything lol. But Ill run my BT21 against my blue yinding since it has KD2 driver so I can set program close to stock yinding. Better comparison will come from GHJS I believe.

Since my testing and all that stuff is scattered over multiple threads testing/review will include (will be editting OP to make info right on first page once I finish reveiw but progress I will post normal)

-compatibility with aftermarket optics (i have a full mix of both carclo and LEDDNA/Glowworm optics in all beam patterns)
-Current tests on all modes
-Temp testing (as any calls it, my wind tunnel test, but air speed at about 6-7mph steady)
-internal pics and details
-beam shots both on white wall and outside
-Test ride Video, hopefully trail ride this time (stupid weather)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Teaser alert, dont get this via lighthead only. Yeap DHL came a day early. This is why kit is so much more than bt40s kit, and ill pay the extra for it!!!


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

What!?!? Is that a spiffy carrying case? Awesome... Need updates asap


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yeap only the kit comes with it, I was hoping it did but couldn't be sure till it arrived.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Little more teasing (at my parents for the holiday but brought it with, kid with new toy syndrome )

Good battery bag far better than any one ive seen yet for cheaper lights, water resistant casing over 4cell pack that you can actually change to other welded/wrapped 4 cell packs.

Oh and head strap that's actually useable for a helmet mount.

And case is big enough if you remove wall charger to carry another light and battery pack (2 size depending).


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Beam shots asap! I'll be waiting up


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Well done Tigris! First impressions: Kit is nice, with a well made zippered carry case. Inside is the light, charger, battery, helmet mount, Velcro straps, M/F extension, 3 silicon bands and instructions. All parts seem well made including the charger, which isn't the cheap one normally included in Chinese light kits.

Light head itself is noticeably larger than the Yinding yet still a very compact light. When you plug the light into the battery the button doesn't light, which some may like and others may find it hard to find in the dark. Lenses are frosted and the tint I would say is 4C. It's definitely more yellow than the correct 3C Yinding, while not as yellow as the 5C Yinding. As shown before, the button changes color for each of the 4 levels and Off is a long hold.

After all Tigris' hard work, I will refrain from posting anymore, until he has time to post his review, this is his baby. After his review I can do some side by sides of all the Neutrals if you guys want.

Rep sent and Thanks again Tigris!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Thnx GJHS, cant believe what this turned out to be, expected good lights far surpassed that. Aight guys base tests done, awesome light!!! Pics uploading now so I can post.

But base info will be loaded to OP to make it easier for those browsing to reference all the main info at once.

And yes manbeer got beam shots. Tint hard to say because ive seen optics throw the tint off, im going to put leddna optics in it and see the tint there. But first impression, im with GHJS, its 4c.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Any current draw testing done? And the 4c seems to confirm garrybunks estimate of the bt40 so it's nice to see uniformity between the two


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

manbeer said:


> Beam shots asap! I'll be waiting up


No, I want the teardown first, followed by "Will it blend?", then beamshots.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

LMAO, kids chill I DID IT ALL ALREADY, just for you guys. "Lab Tests" (my kitchen table and my homemade equipment) and beam shots in the same fashion (including switching where vehicles were parked so it looks the same) as my other beam shots of other lights. ANyway, PICS COMING, HOLD ON A SEC, they just finished loading.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK just for you manbeer:

Low










medium (sorry im not always the most stable lol)










high










Turbo

















It is PITCH BLACK, on the second pic in the entire air iluminated in my neighbors yard 

Next is current per setting pack wasnt fully charged. I charged it, but I was a kid on christmas, I was playing with it while we were all relaxing after eating a ton of grilled burgers, salads, and my soon to be famous smoked ribs:





































Battery test at this exact time: 2 hrs 25 mins: started on turbo but put my big custom Vancbiker made heatsink gopro mount on it (explain why in a minute)

1.4A at 6.14 volts at meter right now, 2:25hrs into battery run test.

Heat management:

Turbo IS NO JOKE. as you saw above, LOTS OF LIGHT, and head reflects it, case temp 134F in the "Wind Tunnel" Test (yeap Andy that is my name for it now in honor of you lol). IT GETS HOT. SO for max power run test I put my big heat sink gopro mount I had Vanc make for my ssX3 on it, keeps it around 125, till power from pack dropped low enough it wasnt cooking.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Wow. Nice beam shots...Can the head sustain high for the entire runtime or does it step down due to heating? How many lumens estimates are these shots?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Update: 2 hrs 36mins till protection trip when started and left of turbo, around 15%

On charger now, see true pack capacity (which at best is what they say it is for that kind of run time at 2.8A draw)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

estimate 1300 lumens on turbo.

Havent had a chance to do all that yet, just received light today and just had time to run tests starting a couple hours ago. No light can sustain more than medium without air flow, more air flow higher it can stay. Hold high, based on current readings will do it no problem as long as your moving at least a little bit. ALso if you read the whole post, it explains what i had to do to hold turbo for extended period of time on my wind tunnel unit which is about 7mph wind speed.


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## dmc71 (May 16, 2015)

Tigris, these readings confirmed my readings with 20w on turbo, and the lighthead getting very hot, very quickly. I didn't test for very long so i didn't have any info on whether it steps down due to heat. I wasn't sure whether 'turbo' needed to be used as a short overdrive setting rather than a high setting that you can use for your entire ride.
I'm interested in your views on beam with stock, and leddna optics.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Turbo is a NO WAY DONT LEAVE IT THERE!!! Short bursts only, on the wind tunnel took 11 minutes to step down, ambient temp 75F. I knew as soon as I plugged it in and powered it on that you were right on with the readings from yours (not sure your set up but mine looks rough, its highly accurate with <1% deviation)

Stock optics are pretty sweet, decent throw but still fairly smooth wide beam. Going to play with LEDDNA and carclo optics on this one (since it can except both with easy oring changes, doesnt use a funky gasket)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Optics update:



Carclo fit just as stock to, good there, seems to work decent too but as usual they have a goofy edge to the beam pattern which bugs me.



LEDDNA optics fit up in the faceplate more since they are slightly taller, and doesnt seem to help or hurt anything. Just changes beam pattern based on what optics I install.



Also changing my estimation on lumens, 11-1200 at first on turbo, as it heats up lumens drop, so you dont see peek for more than a few seconds but you dont notice the drop visually unless on a white wall as light looks more 3c for a couple seconds then starts the hint of yellow being 4C. Other lumen specs are off too.

high is half, then on down from here.



Color is a bit off from any lights i have that are full true 3c, but like my yinding that has a dedomed 1c on one side, it matches up better than anything else since 1c dedomed is between 3 and 4c tint.



But honestly, other than the lighthead uses the normal 22awg cable (nothing else does...) I see nothing to mess with. Optics for me would work for either helmet or bars. 



One thing I DONT LIKE, high output vs turbo. high is only 1.3A WTF???? turbo 2.8???? high should be 2-2.25A. medium at 1.3A and low around .5A. Head can run at 2-2.25 all day long without thermal issues. But turbo is too much (though Ill do a ride test using my various sizes of heatsink gopro mounts )


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> high is only 1.3A WTF????


ut:


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Damn that's kind of low for a high....


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

What do the leds mount on? Is there good heat transfer?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

SlSto said:


> What do the leds mount on? Is there good heat transfer?


All of that is in the original first post now. I put all that important info on there so it was easy to find.

Heres the pics again here for reference too:










solid aluminum behind emitter plate except gap where driver fits in behind the emitters.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

Sounds great.

But now to the question. If you should recommend a light to a friend. Would you recommend the BT-21 or the Yinding?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I'm kicking myself for not ordering the whole kit but looking over my order I figure I should have it either Thursday or Friday. When I ordered mine no mention was made of any delays, only that payment was received and that the order would be quickly processed.

*dmc71* mentioned that the beam pattern of the BT21 had some "squareness' to the beam pattern. That might actually be good as the Gloworm optics tend to do the same thing. After next week I go on my first week of vacation for the year. I hope the weather continues to be as nice as it's been all this spring. *Whew*...I rode for the last three days and today the trails I rode were full of hills and all kinds of technical features...I am tuckered out!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

znomit said:


> ut:


Yeah, I'm trying to figure that one out as well. High should at least be 1.8A, medium around 1A and low about 500ma. Too bad the lamp isn't programmable so you could adjust the output for each mode.

At this point ( seeing I don't have mine yet ) I have a feeling the modes are spaced out ( lumen wise ) very much like the BT40S. Perhaps another reason for setting the other modes so low is that the lamp tends to get hot and the manufacture wanted to make sure that the lower modes would operate in warmer temperatures.

Tonight when I did my ride with my BT40S I noticed that it got hotter than before. Likely because I was using the highest mode more along a really long and winding section of hillside. Once I got to ground level I once again bumped up the output. As usual the indicator never did leave green although this ride was shorter ( 1.5 hr )


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Appel said:


> Sounds great.
> 
> But now to the question. If you should recommend a light to a friend. Would you recommend the BT-21 or the Yinding?


That remains to be seen. So far I don't see anything that puts the Yinding to shame, it's still a quality light head.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Even though high is only 1.3A the photos don't show a huge gap from high to turbo, so to me the spacing looks right and high is then very battery conserving. Thanks tigris!

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

This is pretty exciting. Can't wait until mine arrives, but until then i can live vicariously through everyone else. Seems it is more different than the yinding than we expected. Also sounds like the mode spacing is similar to the BT40. It won't be everyones cup of tea, but as garry said, high would probably give pretty good runtimes and be "enough" light for most situations. I can't see in the pic but what is the driver setup like? Would it be easy to swap with something or is it a proprietary design?


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Can the light sustain high for the entire duration of the battery capacity?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

What's the point of having all those heat fins if you can't leave it on turbo the whole time. How do you get into the turbo mode anyway, press and hold? Does is automatically go back to high after a certain amount of time? That's the last thing you want if you are riding a long descent. 

I generally hate the concept of a turbo mode. Let me use the light that I paid for. That's my philosophy. I could see how a turbo mode might be desirable in city riding where you want to signal a car, but it's useless on mountain bike trails. 

At 1.3A I doubt it's going to be brighter than the other dual lights. 

With that gap in the heat sinking due to the driver, I doubt could you leave it on turbo for long periods of time without damaging something. I was hoping the driver would be much narrower, so that there would be much more heat sinking area. It looks like there is a half moon shape of contact that just covers the both sides of the led. Is that enough? At what temperature do you start damaging the led and the circuit?


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I was under the impression that "turbo" is actually high on these lights. "high" is like extra medium, then medium, then low. I think it's just poor naming. I'm pretty sure that it's intended to be used as a constant setting rather than burst


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

manbeer said:


> I was under the impression that "turbo" is actually high on these lights. "high" is like extra medium, then medium, then low. I think it's just poor naming. I'm pretty sure that it's intended to be used as a constant setting rather than burst


I don't know, I was just getting the information from tigris99's post here. Is it just a 4 level light?



tigris99 said:


> Turbo is a NO WAY DONT LEAVE IT THERE!!! Short bursts only, on the wind tunnel took 11 minutes to step down, ambient temp 75F. I knew as soon as I plugged it in and powered it on that you were right on with the readings from yours (not sure your set up but mine looks rough, its highly accurate with <1% deviation)


Maybe I'm just misreading his post? Tigris99 could you clarify the turbo mode?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes its just a 4 level light with hidden strobe. You van use turbo all you want at your own risk. Thankfully light has thermal step down.



If your not just going slow and its not overly hot out you can run turbo for a while. But the head does heat up pretty good.



@manbeer: You missed the info about the driver, until someone posts how to (or I locate a way) there is no of getting the driver out. Its siliconed in. Not sure why because there is 2 screws holding it in as well. If I figure out a way ill post it.



Also, pics must not do a great job of it but there is a noticeable jump between high and turbo. Just not 800 lumens worth.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks for the clarification.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

So does Turbo stepdown to high? Or does it stepdown lower? 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Appel said:


> Sounds great.
> 
> But now to the question. If you should recommend a light to a friend. Would you recommend the BT-21 or the Yinding?


Honestly it depends one what you want to do.

Yinding is small and lightweight and isn't driven as hard.

Bt21 is bigger and a bit heavier. Driven harder.

Both lights get really hot on high (turbo in the case of the bt21) so require fair amounts of air flow to run at full power for very long.

Bt21 obviously comes with more stuff and FAR BETTER batteries as a kit than the yinding. But you pay the difference for it too.

If your looking for a bar light I would say bt21, helmet personally I have NO INTENTION of taking my yinding off and putting this on for normal use. But that's because my yinding matches my bike and gear. i also purchased a heat sink gopro mount here

https://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/Additional_adapters.html










That said bt21 will be tested on helmet and bars as I am confident it will do well for both. If your buying lighthead only, its a toss up, buying the full kit with battery and all, bt21 hands down!!!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> So does Turbo stepdown to high? Or does it stepdown lower?
> 
> -Garry


Honestly I didnt look that close but it looked like high to me. But when you hit the button it doesn't go back to turbo, goes to low. So I expect simple one level step down.

Was playing with testing again. After teardown The extra thermal paste that I removed actually seemed to help a bit. Too much behind emitter plate. Ambient temps were a couple degrees higher but on a fully charged pack it ran a tad cooler. Seems the overkill on thermal paste is creating the problem.

Im going to ride paved path for testing tonight, I suspect that even though my "wind tunnel" does its job, being that the air is confined and ducted, that air speed from it doesn't have same effect for cooling as on a bike traveling at same speed. Something I noticed on my other test rides, heads dont run as hot. Still hit but a bit cooler. So turbo may be able to be sustained without issue except at very low speeds.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Now you just need to mod your "wind tunnel" to be portable, bike mountable (out in front of the light), and to run on a battery pack  . After that you can start working on a solar powered bar light which charges off the light from your helmet light  .

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol. Nah just take my infared thermometer with me


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Aight new update:

Mother nature still not cooperating, threw a couple tornados storms a bit south of here etc, so no ride.

But to everyone's pleasure I found the flaw in the Wind Tunnel. Well 2 technically. First is I removed cover plate for power supply vents and PS fan pulls from those vents which are in the top of it, aka bottom of wind tunnel. Air speed is more like 5 mph now. Second was because of that majority of airflow was actually blowing on the top of the head only, not all around it. Adjusted mount and that problem solved. So new thermal test results.

Turbo, 125-128 SUSTAINED, NO STEP DOWN!!! That's WITHOUT a heat sink mount and ambient temperature of 76F.

Do recommend use of high/medium not turbo at low speeds (climbing) but if at cruising speed and faster, turbo will hold. Ideally, turbo wouldn't be used till descending but beyond that you can literally run high all night as long as there is some air flow.

Now use vancbikers yinding gopro adapter, temps at 113f steady. Well within safe long term operating temps.

Also didn't pay attention last night but like bt40, the indicator led on the light head is a bit sensitive.

Finally battery: Keep in mind this is first cycle of pack, every new pack needs a few runs before at peek performance. But capacity test has it at 4845mah. But this is also caused by lighthead protection cut off. Testing that exact voltage now.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Using Vancbiker's finned mount drops the temperature by 15F? That's pretty surprising given the amount of heat fins already on this light. Maybe it's because they are more directly in the air flow.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya this is the third light head (started with KD2, then yinding) and results are 10-15% lower running temps. You are correct though its because the fins go with the air flow and directly in its path. Plus the total mass/surface area increase. All things combined it does alot as 10-15deg F is major for the longevity of the electronics. 

Im willing to bet that helmet mounted because of how air will flow over a helmet shell that the temps will run cooler as air will be pushed up through the rear fins better. Handlebars I dont see having much effect, but helmet mounted with vancs mount I bet temps will run another few degs cooler.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Info on tint: Compared to known 3c lights seems bt21 new is bottom of color temp but now it looks more 3c on fresh pack, see the extra yellowish vs pure 3c but its so subtle I have a hard time telling. Doesn't have that bit of pinkish I see in my bt40 (with known 3c)


Its like this light needed a couple uses to break in lol. Because now its brighter. At least on a newly charged pack pack it looks more 3c. Perfect mate to the bt40. I did notice more yellow tint as power started getting way low from pack, but I see that on all my 3c lights except the bit of pink/red the bt40 has on a pure white wall.


My bt40 which has upgraded emitters (xpg2 s3 3c) and a small current boost in the driver, is actually only as bright on turbo as the bt21 stock. Bt21 also has better throw (yes with stock optics). But bt40 has better flood (go figure not what I expected).


Im actually REALLY EXCITED to try this as helmet light with bt40 on the bars!!!! I ran voltage cutoff test using my 2 cell keeppower Panasonics in fenix case (its my helmet pack) and thing ran for well over an hour with the pack (on turbo) having 30 mins of the yinding on medium used already.



Ps: Since I ran stock pack down to around 2.5v then immediately charged up to around half, finished charging today, voltage sag and overall performance of stock pack has increased dramatically.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

One last pic before passing out, why I love the case so much:


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Can the batteries of the nitefighter case be changed?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

How's the brightness of the button? With the button being on the top, does the light get into your eyes more than if the button were on the rear?


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Mine was just scanned into Cincinnati, OH last night. Im pumped!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mountainking7 said:


> Can the batteries of the nitefighter case be changed?


Its not a case its a battery pack inside a pouch. U can change the pack out in the pouch easily but that's it.


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## warthogism (May 3, 2015)

I was able to snag one (light only) off ebay for $25. It's out for delivery as we speak. Can't wait!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Im going to get a second head for experimentation. Stock I see nothing wrong except I like remotes for helmet use. The button on this this is great though cause of its location and size. Much easier to find and push than my yindings and on top makes it easier not to push the light out of adjustment.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I had a thought - what about wiring the remote in-line with the power cable? Eliminates opening the head up at all. Will that work? (I know it's a momentary switch, but not if it will act differently this way.)

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Have to get to the driver to do anything though, have to contact the other side of the switch, can't run monetary across the battery cable, only the ground wire then the driver board iirc. Could be wrong (be nice if it was like flashlights)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Oh that's true. Otherwise simply plugging/unplugging the cable would change modes. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I am working on figuring out how to get driver out. But not going crazy till I get another light head for a back up. Going to get some driver measurements tonight though, its got some room maybe for different driver options for those of us that like to tinker


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Update: Test ride on the same path I have been using (rain just wont let up long enough for trails to open)...

"Yinding, I love you dearly, your an amazing light. And can't ignore the blue, but now you will have to share your time with me on my helmet. You do an amazing job for such a small package, but even after your upgrades, bt21 still has you beat in everything but for a long range spot"

Sincerely,
your loving owner



So one thing I learned tonight. I though my Panasonic packs were at full potential, same with my keep power Panasonics in the fenic case. Then I ran the bt21 case down to protection, then the fenix case one to test voltage cutoff of bt21 (around 5.5v). HOLY CRAP, every light I own came to life. Bt21 and bt40s both went from great to omg awesome on high and ridiculous on turbo.

Video loading to YouTube now.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Pics:

Beam Shot, MJ880 CLone on left, 3c Tint, BT21 On right, 4C tint. Though on the bike hell if I can tell the difference.










BT40 and BT21 beam shots. BT40 on turbo










BT21 on turbo (on helmet) can see the increased throw. Look at arch in trees to see difference










And both only on high


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## dmc71 (May 16, 2015)

Would you describe the BT21 (with stock lenses) as Yinding with a bit more flood, or a BT40s with a bit more throw, or would you go as far as saying the throw of the Yinding and flood of the BT40s all in one (which would be some going as you'd be replacing 2 lights with a combined 30w with a single light of 20w)?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

None of the above. Less flood than bt40 more throw (which is partially due to much higher output than yinding) than either.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Pics:
> 
> Beam Shot, MJ880 CLone on left, 3c Tint, BT21 On right, 4C tint. Though on the bike hell if I can tell the difference.
> 
> ...


Nice photos tig. I'm assuming both lamps are stock, no modding...
It does need to be pointed out though that beam shots done of paved surfaces always seem to carry a little further. I notice this with all my lamps.

With the BT40S on low I can ride on the road and see really well. Only problem is the lamp has a lot of spill and lights up a very wide portion of the road so it's probably not the lamp best suited for road use.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya I rode to the path with bt40 on low, plenty but it was midnight in my town of 1600 people and I rode residential all the way lol. None of these lights work good on road use cause no shield up high to block glare.

Bt21 bone stock, no reason, desire or need to mess with it 

Bt40s my "turbo" pic was actually high for me as high equals stock turbo (turned my driver up a tad since head can handle it). But it doesn't need messed with, it was purely "cause I can" lol.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Got mine today but it came when I was changing my cars brakes on all 4 corners and the crank sensor so I haven't even had time to look at it


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Also, it should be noted that the light head arrived with everything but battery and charger, similar to close- helmet mount, extension cable etc


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well that explains the extra price. So everything except case and battery/charger?


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yes sir. I'm hoping that I'll have a chance to try it out this week but it may be at least a few days before I'm really able to. It looks like a really nicely built unit. Very compact but a tad larger than the yinding. Looks better in person than in photos


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

yes it does, glad to hear the head only option comes with more than just the bands. Makes up for that extra cost of the light head.

Videos are loading to youtube for my video review sometime this weekend I will get them pieced together and throw a link up.

HOPING it doesnt rain enough to close trails again!!!! want to finally hit the dirt with lights (aint hit the trails except with oldest boy during the day last weekend in weeks) But regardless IM LOVING THIS LIGHT. Still grrr about high only being 1.3A but on the helmet once cruising it holds turbo just fine as long as moving at more slowest 2 gears.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

How is the build quality of the BT21- up to Yinding standards? How's the waterproofing?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Everything with the bt21 is as good as the yinding except in the case of the output which is better


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh man I think the bt21 can actually do better than 2.8A with one mod (just gotta figure out how to get the driver out):



In an attempt to bring my yinding up close to the bt21 beyond my other mods (noctigons, driver pushed up, 20awg wire to emitters) I took out the dedomed u4 1c and put a u2 3c back in. Then i have a few of the dx/magicshine cables that are 20awg. Changed the yinding plug (I bought the cables to put the female ends on battery cases). Before as tested 2.5A tested. Now running 2.7A on fresh Panasonic pack..... Remember THIS IS MODDED, stock yinding is 2.0A roughly. And I had to put my big heat sink gopro adapter on it so it wasn't scorching hot in 15secs. It'll run that way now. But I DO NOT recommend trying to copy my mods unless you know or can easily learn the skills.



The freaking 22awg stock cables are castrating our lights, 200mA is just a tad brighter lol. And my wires are set 4-6" long on all lights.



Bet a bt21 driver can push 3A without modding just by getting a 20awg connector in them for the battery.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Bet a bt21 driver can push 3A without modding just by getting a 20awg connector in them for the battery.


If its a decent driver the wiring from battery to driver shouldn't matter too much. It should push out the same current regardless of input voltage.
Where it does matter is run time because those thin wires are just wasting power.

Have you measured the actual current to LEDs for the BT21?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

znomit said:


> If its a decent driver the wiring from battery to driver shouldn't matter too much. It should push out the same current regardless of input voltage.
> Where it does matter is run time because those thin wires are just wasting power.


You should define the decent driver. I would call Yinding and similar a decent driver. In all those 2led lights we are dealing with, there are buck drivers where input voltage is quite important. When it goes below leds Vf the current can't be regulated anymore. For that you would need buck/boost driver, so two different functionalities (buck for U > Vf and boost for U < Vf) on the same board. This would be bigger and more expensive. I would call those very good drivers.

In the situation we are dealing with, Tigris is right. Every bit counts.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

This is where too many people don't understand. A decent driver costs more than these entire light heads. 







And ya pushing current is one thing but no matter the driver, proper size wire matters. A driver doesn't create current, it regulates it. Vf of emitters changes with temp and good drivers are able to regulate the current and keep output constant. These drivers dont do that but their $20-30 light heads and good drivers for this use aren't cheap. Im still learning how these drivers work exactly since current drops with voltage, especially once the voltage hits and begins to drop below emitter Vf + driver requirement.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Nice looking beamshots. It looks like a winner to me. Too bad I bought three Yindings. Let's hope they hold up long term. 

Is there a site or book which describes how led drivers are designed? I've always wanted to know more about them.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Too many types of drivers so it's a matter of google search and reading alot


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Down to Vf driver regulates current. Below Vf those drivers goes just into direct drive, so no regulation anymore. Current and voltage are completly dependable at that stage.

If you want to learn about drivers you should look for different types:
- linear
- buck
- boost
- direct drive


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok after doing all the research (cree website etc) and we know yinding output this light pushes 1400-1500 lumen approx (going with high 85C temp data).

Part of what I did for better visual was matched optics among my yindings and my bt21 and bt21 is noticeably higher vs yinding stock output. My modded yinding will match it but due to higher temps will settle a bit lower (even with my big a** gopro heat sink adapter).

We have a solid light here in all areas!!! But if used on helmet you have to decide on weight or output/heat.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

This is one of the best lights I have ever used. I'm out with it now and it's beyond fantastic. The only light that I have that clearly edged it out is my gloworm xs at roughly 6x the price. This is basically like a roided out yinding with a warmer tint which may or may not be everyone's cup of tea. High is more than sufficient for pretty much anything. And it has a good bit of flood as well. I'm actually liking the stock optics. Turbo is unnecessary and I almost wish I could hide the mode because it is like a tease that you can run it even higher. A few years ago when I was a lumen junkie I would have used it more but now it's excessive. No thermal stepdowns yet even on turbo l. Its 66 degrees as of now so we will see how it fares in hotter weather


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Bt40 and bt21 combo on turbo


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So on dirt its just as insanely bright as it is on my path. Can't wait to hit the dirt. Weather looks promising for an after work ride next week.



And manbeer, ya it holds turbo just fine if your moving along but high temp nights/low speed I think it'll step down.

I went out again tonight (880 clone as my bar light) and switched optics to 45 and 15 on this, was great!  I really think it balances the weight of the pack on my helmet better too, more weight forward.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Down to Vf driver regulates current. Below Vf those drivers goes just into direct drive, so no regulation anymore. Current and voltage are completely dependable at that stage.
> 
> If you want to learn about drivers you should look for different types:
> - linear
> ...


All true. It has to be remembered that any kind of driver will have both a voltage operating range and a current output range. The voltage operating range will vary depending on the design of the driver and it's intended use. Obviously the wider the voltage range of the driver, the longer the lamp will stay in regulation for the designed output current.

With the cheaper Chinese drivers the working ( regulating ) range of the driver is likely very limited. (edit) ...I wouldn't think though that this would be much of a problem for most people unless of course you routinely run your batteries down close to their designed shut-off voltage.

*@ manbeer;* I like what you're saying about the BT21. I can't wait to get mine. Should of been here yesterday but so far all my orders from Gearbest seem to take a couple days longer. Hopefully I'll have it Monday or Tuesday. From what's been said about the BT21 so far I don't think I'll need to change much on it ( if anything ). I might try different optics for a tighter beam pattern for the helmet, other than that I should be good with the stock product.

About the photo, very nice. The beam shots of the neutral LED's always look better on dryer surfaces. Too bad you did the shot at a spot on the trail with some low hanging canopy or the photo would likely have shown a more dramatic distance throw.

( edited side note: I'll be off work all next week so if mine comes next week I'll have some comments and some photos very quickly. )


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Had to grab another shot cause stupid tapatalk kept rotating my pic this time I took one sideways. This light is a beast. The only thing I would do differently is have a two way switch like the bt40 so I don't have to scroll through modes. That way I don't realize there is turbo cause it gets me all hot and bothered lol. High is enough for anything but serious downhill. If someone thinks they need more light then this they are blind or on drugs








God why does it rotate the image no matter what! Annoying!


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Cat, I hear what you're saying about the optics but I bet you will be pleasantly surprised. They don't really give up much in the way of throw but have a fairly decent bit of spill that transitions smoothly into the beam of the bar light when well adjusted. I found that I aimed it just a tad higher than with my other helmet lights and it was ideal.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

I asked this question before, would it be possible to swap out the batteries in the case or exchange the casing to an after market casing later on? Thanks.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Mountainking7 said:


> I asked this question before, would it be possible to swap out the batteries in the case or exchange the casing to an after market casing later on? Thanks.


Battery pack is typical welded style with non replaceable cells, housed in a nice rubber sleeve that extends about 1.5cm up from the pack to provide some strain relief. It is then covered in a nice fairly thick cordura pouch and the cable is run through a metal grommet. Its mounted via 2 Velcro straps. Its really good enough where there would be no need the replace the cells anyway. Hkj tested a protected 18650 using the same cells a while back and it had fantastic discharge curve. Better than many of the top tier cells


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Mountainking7 said:


> I asked this question before, would it be possible to swap out the batteries in the case or exchange the casing to an after market casing later on? Thanks.


I'll add a little to what manbeer just said ( *reminds me to get myself a beer from the fridge..) The 4-cell battery pack that comes with the lamp is very good. Regardless, if you wanted to use another 4-cell 18650 pack with a higher capacity you could certainly do so as long as it's using the typical MS type connector.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Does anyone have a BC30 to know how it compares?  I might just end up snapping this one


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

the problem is that the BC30 is different in SO many ways. But output is going to be the same probably. bc30 is self contained, wide range driver that only has the capacity for 2 high end 18650s for cell capacity. BT21 runs off a good 4 cell pack do you have that, and option to run any other packs. Fenix has remote, this doesnt. This you can change optics to suite what you need.

So cant really compare, ratings and actual numbers im seeing here put them about equal with performance.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Hum hum hum...I thought I saw the price for about $55 at gearbest. They hiked up the price...Currently at $67.99. Shady @#[email protected]#....


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Mountainking7 said:


> Does anyone have a BC30 to know how it compares?  I might just end up snapping this one


...as to beam pattern / brightness the Fenix BC30 doesn't look that impressive on the review thread but than again I've never been impressed with the MTBR beam shots.
It is also designed more for road use as the lamp has a cut-off beam pattern ( as one reviewer noted ) so as not to annoy motorist. That said I'm sure it could still work fine as a bar lamp for mountain biking. No mention is made of there being a helmet mount. Apparently it doesn't include batteries or charger so that is an additional cost.

Since you mentioned before wanting something for the helmet, I'm still going to recommend something like the Cygolite Expilion ( includes helmet mount ) or the Serfas 750 ( also comes with helmet mount ) for a little more money. Both also offer easy battery switch out which in my opinion is a "Must have" for any lamp that is using a self contained battery system. Of course none of these come with neutral LED tinting but few self-contained lamps do.

( on a side note; If you buy a lamp with the early edition of the XM-L2 T6, those tended to be a bit warm, perhaps 3C range. Not bad actually, the helmet torch I use with my BT40S uses this emitter and blends very well together.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mountainking7 said:


> Hum hum hum...I thought I saw the price for about $55 at gearbest. They hiked up the price...Currently at $67.99. Shady @#[email protected]#....


Price for bt21 has never been $55, your thinking bt40. And the group buy codes are still active


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK guys heres my VIDEO REVIEW. First full on all out one. Enjoy (btw at time of post was still processing on youtube so may be a bit before it can actually be watched).


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## eTrex_FSR (Dec 18, 2009)

Anybody already managed to connect a remote switch to the BT21? Or to difficult to get to the driver pcb?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its not doable on this light that's ive figure out. The driver is potted with silicone into the housing for thermal transfer. At least the button is big and on top of the head, easy to use in the helmet.

Doing a remote will require removing the silicone that holds the driver in but u risk driver damage as it wont have any thermal transfer to the case.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*My BT21 is IN! : Initial impressions from inside the home*

Well folks, I timed it perfectly. My BT21 is *IN*, arriving just when I thought it would. I ordered the lamp head only ( and yes this one I paid for ). Gearbest included a helmet mount and an extension cord, nice touch. Sadly they forgot one important thing, O-rings. Nice to have the lamp and the extras, not nice to forget O-rings. In my case no biggie as I have O-rings coming out of my CAt bung-O. 

Checking it out in my home the beam pattern is very similar to the Gloworm X2 lamps with the exception being that the GW is using slightly larger optics and seem to have more of a hot spot ( when compared to my GWX2 with spot/flood set-up ). More on that when I do some comparisons in the field.

Low mode on the BT21 looks to be about 150 lumen, useable for slow climbs or so I hope but not as bright as the BT40's low mode. The other modes look very good and the boost mode is very, very bright. Yes indeedy-do, the BT21 heats up very fast on boost mode. Can't wait to see how this translates when in the field. Can't wait to see what kind of throw this lamp is going to have.

I'm kind'a hating life right now. My car is in the shop and I won't get it back till tomorrow. Visa on the other hand is loaning me the $1400 to get it fixed. Even worse though is that it looks like my week off is going to be spent watching the local weather radar screens. Nothing like getting a new toy only to find out that the weather is not going to let you play with it. As I write a good size series of storms is about to roll through my area... :incazzato: No doubt it is going to dump 2 or more inches. Flash flood warnings are out....:incazzato: and the rest of the week is not looking real promising.  :sad:


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

^sort of in the same boat. My car is in the shop for 2 days now getting the windshield replaced, just did new pads and rotors on all 4 corners, changed the crank sensor back and forth between the original bad one and a new, even worse Chinese sensor that wouldn't work right at all. I figured a simple magnetic sensor wouldn't be something terribly difficult to copy but it was a royal fail. Then by the time i swap it with the one I just picked up from the dealer and get an inspection the rain will be back 

On a positive note, you will be very happy with the light. It's actually good enough where I'm excited to go riding again just to use the light


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

And this is why I love the fact I spent many yrs of my life as a ASE tech, car in the shop simply means in my garage and im busy having fun getting greasy lol.

Oh and looks like I get to hit the dirt at my one new really close to home trails (first time on them) and going to go first dirt night ride in first time on these trails all at once lol. Getting brave but too excited not to.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Yep, brakes all round, replace leaking oil gasket, and misc. sensor on engine. When it rains it pours.  This year by the time I'm done I'll have spent close to $3000 on car repair. There goes my vacation money and emergency fund.

*Quick correction from my last post:* They did give me O-rings. They were inside the box the lamp was in. Everything else came inside a plastic zip bag.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Well normally I fix everything myself, but I can't do windshields. Unfortunately, I let things go for too long. Next up is suspension, a new rear diff, coils, plugs and clutch...which amazingly is only starting to slip recently after almost 100k miles of 500+ horsepower


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice. Ya I can't do windshields or tires. Well I can do windshields but rather pay someone for it, it sucks and I usually gouge my hand every time lol.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Just did a quicky ride on the road bike back on the local paved trails. Conditions were terrible though. Everything was wet and misty so really hard to judge throw characteristics. Nevertheless, I could tell the BT21 has an overall flood quality to the beam pattern. Throw distance looks similar to the BT40's but the 40S delivers more of conical beam pattern with lots of spill. The BT21 seems to deliver a more evenly dispersed beam pattern very like the gloworm X2. I was using the BT21 on the bars ( no helmet lamp ). 

I'm not sure how the BT21 will work on the helmet since the beam is pretty well dispersed by the clouded optics. To judge that properly I need some dryer trails. With all the rain the area where I live had tonight I'm not sure I'm going to be able to give it a fair test anytime soon. It did work pretty good on the bars though. No problem seeing anything and color rendition was as expected. 

I also ran the boost mode a good bit to see if the lamp would get too hot. As long as I was moving at least 10mph the lamp stayed moderately warm. I will say that when I switched to boost mode the battery indicator ( on blue ) switched immediately to orange ( using one of my partially charged Bikeray batteries ). Boost mode certainly drawing some amps. 

The low mode might only be about 110 lumen. I need to reevaluate that in drier conditions though. Still should be fine for slower riding. The next level was very nice and should be fine for moderate speeds. After that things just got better of course. 

After I got home i was wishing I had brought the KD2 along for comparison but there will be a next time. While looking at the KD2 I'm thinking that maybe the KD2 optics might very well be the same size as the BT21...hmmm. I might just have to test that theory out at some point.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok got my first ,ended up being short ride in tonight!!!

Lessons learned (me and bike are fine)
-dx magicshine cables ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH NITEFIGHTER VERSION.....ya bt40 has a dx cable installed, used pack I got with bt21. Connector kept loosing connection.... Gotta sort out what connectors work and don't together. No issues with bt21 stock cable with the magichine dx cable installed on my fenix case for lid. I'll put a new thread up explaining this whole cable mess since half them look alike, not sure wtf. Think 1 dx cable I got (or maybe its my true magicahine one on the bt40, can't remember) is off size on the male end.

Second lesson, IF YOU RIDE WOODED TRAILS WITH HEAVY UNDERGROWTH THERE IS A SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH LIGHT. Omfg lol. Dropped bt40 to medium and bt21 to medium even decending, was just NUTS. Turbo in the woods is way too much, high I wanted my sunglasses lol.

But until the connector issue presented itself OMG NIGHT RIDING IS A BLAST!!!

Final lesson, DONT NIGHT RIDE A TRAIL YOUVE NEVER RIDDEN. At least not the new one that's 10mins from home.... Tight, twisty, alot of short steep stuff. Hence why I cut ride short. Couldn't relax cause trying to get used to lights and trying to sort a new trail just dont mix lol.

Short clip of descent at trail head coming soon.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nvm no connector issue, a piece of plastic (work in a blow molding plant) that got im my pocket found its way into the plug on the battery pack lmao. Damn job of mine


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> Final lesson, DONT NIGHT RIDE A TRAIL YOUVE NEVER RIDDEN.


After you get a few rides in, you'll forget about this. I've done this numerous times. When I used to work, I'd get off work on Friday and drive to a riding destination. Find a place to setup camp then hit the trails and ride til midnight or so. Sure, you're not going to blast it, but it is a neat challenge.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well as I didn't make it far before the hole connector issue presented itself gonna try again tomorrow hopefully. Too tired tonight to do it. I left out at midnight to go ride last night lol. Dont get off work till 1120pm


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Second lesson, IF YOU RIDE WOODED TRAILS WITH HEAVY UNDERGROWTH THERE IS A SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH LIGHT.
> 
> Final lesson, DONT NIGHT RIDE A TRAIL ( at night ) YOU'VE NEVER RIDDEN ( before )....( pardon my edit..CAt ) .


Indeed. Those are two rules I often quote myself. Yes there is such a thing as "Too much light" but to explain "WHY" can be better explained by saying, "Sometimes more light is just USELESS OVERKILL". Massive amounts of light can't go through solid objects ( like heavy brush ) or around turns that are completely blocked by trees and/or vegetation. Nor can light go behind things like big logs, log piles, sudden dips or fast drops. Just like in day riding occasionally you come up on stuff unexpectedly and have to make quick decisions like, "What line to take", or "Can I ride over that"?

No matter how much potential output your lights have, their usefulness is always going to be determined by the direct "Line-of-sight distance" you have while riding. Sometimes direct line of sight can be really, really short. If you're using too much light much of that light is just bouncing off the trail side vegetation and back into your eyes, making it hard for your eyes to adjust. ( This is why being able to change modes very quickly can be advantageous ).

Hard enough to make quick decisions during the day on trails you've ridden before but even on trails you think you know, conditions and trail orientation can change year to year ( at least they do in my neck of the woods ). Not to mention the other obvious explanation: THINGS JUST LOOK DIFFERENT AT NIGHT! Don't be surprised when you get momentarily disoriented or confused on a trail you thought you knew when riding at night. This is all normal stuff everyone has to deal with.

Your best tool at night is your own skill and night riding expertise. Bright bike lamps and electronic gizmos like GPS and smart phones are nice to have and can help you to enjoy the night but you always need a contingency plan when something goes wrong. Bike lamps can fail, GPS and smart phone apps can crash, lose signal or run out of battery juice ( as can bike lamps ). Tires can go flat, spokes can break, chains can break, weather can change unexpectedly, you can run out of water..etc...all the stuff that happens in the day can happen at night.

Some things you really can't plan for but some you can. Nevertheless, YOU CAN'T PLAN FOR EVERYTHING. Plan for those things that make the most sense to you personally. One of the things I personally fear the most is going on long rides only to realize that I didn't bring along enough clothing or proper weather gear...and yes I've had that happen before and it is no picnic. It's where the saying, "Being up S**** creek without a paddle", comes from. Not to mention, the older you get the more important it is to plan ahead or to consider the unexpected.

And tigress99, all of what I just wrote was not aimed at you or for your sake personally but for ANYONE who thinks they might want to mountain bike at night. Plan ahead, be smart and enjoy the night.

:rant: Oh, there I go lecturing again..._excuse moi_. Sorry, I tend to rant when I'm bored, house bound by bad weather or simply out of beer. :smilewinkgrin:


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

^what cat said, plus FOOD. There have been times where I don't eat for a few hours and I've become violently hungry far from home. Almost to the point where if I saw someone walking with a burger if probably stab them for it. Lesson learned, always be prepared and always have emergency snacks


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

Ok. Now I got mine from gearbest. First impressions are mixed.

The silicon over the button is not tight. I don't know if it is broken or badly assembled.








There is no o-ring behind the front plate. I can easily see light coming out between the front plate and the light body.








Not waterproof at all I should say...


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## eTrex_FSR (Dec 18, 2009)

Build quality already going down? Or a bad example?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Whoa! Not Good! Tigris99, how does yours compare as far as the button and missing o-ring?

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wow mine was perfectly fine out of the same order as everyone else's. I get on this right away.

I do have several nitefighter products, not a quality issue, seems just rushed because GB placed a huge order for them. Crossing my fingers this is an isolated incident. But first person to report it.



And you can't do anything about the button that polished ring holds it in and its pressed in, not getting it out. ive tried hence comment in op about dont remove it. I had to glue mine back in lol.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Thankfully, mine has an o-ring on the front but it is not really big. I thought I could see light coming through the front seam of the face plate as well. To be on safe side I'll likely do something about that.

I did get a good look at the optics. Seems these optics have a little ledge a little ways down from the top. I had another optic that looked like it might work but it had a little notch that needed to be filed down.

The top button is worrisome. Not because mine is bad but because this type of button is never completely waterproof and the fact that it is top mounted can only exacerbate the issue. Then again I knew this before I bought it so it's no surprise to me. In use mine has a slightly spongy feel to it although for the time being it is working fine. I'm hesitate though as to how well it will hold up to a good rain.


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## SPE (Aug 4, 2014)

1800LM is the real output? and the battery pack is not good. Unlike it. Don't like it.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No light puts out its true output, its about 1400 on a fresh pack. Better than any other light in the under $50 for lighthead range with yinding close behind.

What's wrong with battery? I have 2 of the packs and they work great. But you actually have to break them in like any other battery pack.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Yes you can pry up the button on mine, though it seems tight and not easy to do. I can also see light coming from between the front cover and body, so likely not as waterproof as the Yinding.

Friday, weather permitting, I will do a beam shot comparison of the Yinding, BT21 and the Nitenumen BA2. While I'm out, I will redo my Solarstorm beam shots now that the trail has more greenery and isn't frozen. Time permitting I will take it them for a ride and see which beam is better. I plan to take the Nitenumen as well since in my initial tests, it was very bright and had a nice flood/spot beam pattern.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Sweet thnx. Both my yindings run at 2.6A now so hard to compare (didn't realize how much i turned them up until I had calibrated my voltage/amp read out)


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

A little report regarding post Nitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light - Page 12- Mtbr.com .

Gearbest is helping me out here in good way. Hopefully nitefighter (or lumingear?) gets this information as well. I also want to thank tigris99 for all his efforts. Thanks.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

eTrex_FSR said:


> Build quality already going down?


Solarstormification?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

SPE said:


> 1800LM is the real output? and the battery pack is not good. Unlike it. Don't like it.


1800 lumen is the theoretical output. OTF is likely about 1400 lumen. Who said the battery wasn't any good? ***The batteries are fine.* The lamp doesn't look like it will be waterproof but that shouldn't be hard to fix. How the button will hold up over time is anyone's guess but OTB it seems works fine. How well the button area will shed water in the rain being top mounted has me worried. If you're looking for a waterproof lamp your probably not going to find many Chinese built lamps that hold up to a hard rain but that is just my opinion. The Nitefighters on the other hand are a step above the usual cheap Chinese bike lamps. The price is reasonable for the quality of lamp/battery you are buying. If the lamp was totally waterproof it would be worth twice what it is selling for.

I'm still waiting to test mine on some dry terrain. Boy did I get screwed this week. The entire week, nothing but rain.



> ( ***note*; there might of been a shortage of batteries for the full sets. That said we need to be watchful to make sure that Nitefighter doesn't pull a quick one and start supplying lower quality batteries. Personally, I only trust Chinese companies so far. Not to mention, I've not been happy lately because the Chinese continue to hack American business and government websites. If that kind of crap continues it is really going to hurt the Chinese export business. If the Chinese don't crack down on their own people hacking U.S. government websites it IS going to hurt them big time. The news on the current successful U.S. government hack was one of the biggest yet. Thousands of U.S. government employees have just had their private employee information stolen. This equates to an attack on the American public in general which threatens their mode of living. No one wants to deal with personal identity theft. That kind of crap from the Chinese has to stop. )


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lumingear and nitefighter are one in the same. And I speak both through gearbest and to lumingear/nitefighter rep directly (Like Cat I do reviews for nitefighter directly as well).



They are well on top of it, as soon ad I mentioned the issues both were all over it. Nitefighter has no interest in going the way of other companies (solarstorm for example). Hope they stay that way.



That said I can't say for certain that the packs are BAK cells, but performance of them is true to specs. But...



So the connector issue, ya, I need to check my pockets from now on lol. Poor bt21.......i found the issue of the crap that got in the plug but I didn't happen to realize the inside of the plug got damaged while I was fighting with it...



Bt21 is dead lol. PISSES ME OFF CAUSE WAS MY OWN STUPIDITY rushing trying to sort it out. I almost threw out a brand new set of Panasonics thinking they were messed up then realized it was more than plastic in the plug from my pocket that got in the plug. Aluminum shavings!!! Bt21 pack is fine and changed out the plug (to be safe) and lucky my stupidity didn't cost me the bt40 as well.



Which leads to the cells inside. They are blue wrapped with a bunch of thermal print (more than any other Chinese cell) but I can't decipher the brand from it.



But performance is good and true to capacity.



And in talking with GB and nitefighter, they had enough problems cause of cheap packs, not repeating that mistake. So we may have to pay a bit higher price in the future but they aren't going to dump total crap on us.

Ps: I have a new bt21 on the way I bought a replacement. But in a week or so a bt21 cased custom build is coming. MtnElectronics to the rescue and allows me to get a bit crazy hehe.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Ps: I have a new bt21 on the way I bought a replacement. But in a week or so a bt21 cased custom build is coming. MtnElectronics to the rescue and allows me to get a bit crazy hehe.


You mean custom mod, right? Whatever you do, if you can find spot replacement optics that will retrofit the BT21...Please, please...let me know what works and where I can buy them. The stock set-up is great for the bars but for the helmet I want more forward throw. A clear lens 15° or 10° ( or both in combo ) should rock on the helmet. I just need a size and a seller.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I'm interested to know if the yinding/duo/glowworm/leddna optics will work too. I've been on the fence about buying this light because I don't really need another light and I'm not sure how my eyes will like the NW tint. The only light I have with a warmer tint (I'm not sure what the emitter tint is but it's very yellow) is my Taz 1500 and it's been a major disappointment to me. That being said, It's rained all day here and I've been testing batteries and have a couple that are on their last leg (barely over 50% capacity left) and need replacement. Buying the package would give me a decent battery, charger, the nice case and an opportunity to see if my eyes will tolerate the NW tint lights that are so popular now. It will also keep me mentally occupied and less likely to spend money on any of my other interests that would all be more expensive.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Carclo, leddna, glowworm, they all work fine I had twin 15deg leddna optics in when I smoked it

Ok wanted to clarify now (I could sweat I posted all this already but I must be slacking)

Carclo direct fit. Ledsupply and mouser.

Glowworm/leddna, a little to tall for stock oring. If you don't ride in moderate or worse rain (which I dont/wont/cant, bad for trails) just take stock orings out and go.

I will play with my mix better right now since I have about ever decent optic there is now. Tell you how each fits etc. But since I killed.my driver no beam shots.

As for the custom. Making a casing to use a mtn-max 17mm driver from mtnelectronics so I can revive this one. Set output to 3A, 4 modes etc to mimic stock except modes are 10/40/70/100. This will be my test head before I start machining my custom head.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK heres my findings:

Stock optics, the problem of light making it through: The orings for the optics. Standard rubber instead of the soft silicone ones we usually see. Makes it damn near impossible to seat the stock optics as they should sit flush with front of head. I have some of the thin silicone ones and tried them, PERFECT. No light leakage. Used a funcky method since i cant power mine up to get light in to see the problem.

I will get on this with Nitefighter ASAP, see if we cant get something done about the oring issue

Next up, optics:

Yinding optics WONT WORK, too large diameter

LEDDNA/Gloworm require removal of orings, seems the little really thin silicone ones work fine to "seal" if you have any. 

Carclo: easiest option and spot is tighter: Narrow spot optics (For Cat) fit perfect with stock orings and allows front plate to seat all the way as they are just a hair shorter where the oring seats vs the stock optics. I tried a few beam patterns all fit the same. BUT NO HOLDERS and cut that little tab off.

Hope that helps everyone. I will work on the oring issue asap, hopefully get it corrected.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Where did the video review go? Noticed is has was removed from CPF also. I wanted to see it

***


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> OK heres my findings:
> 
> Stock optics, the problem of light making it through: The orings for the optics. Standard rubber instead of the soft silicone ones we usually see. Makes it damn near impossible to seat the stock optics as they should sit flush with front of head. I have some of the thin silicone ones and tried them, PERFECT. No light leakage. Used a funcky method since i cant power mine up to get light in to see the problem.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that feedback tig. I'll order a couple sets to see which beam pattern I like most. ~ ~

Last night I managed to get another road ride in with the BT21 on the bars. Sadly the roads and paved paths were still wet but at least the rain had stopped. Still, wet pavement doesn't help when you are trying to judge beam patterns.

Nevertheless when I got to a couple drier sections I got an idea of what the BT21 can do. So here's my take on it, the good and the bad. The BT21 makes a very good bar light. I wish the low mode was a little brighter but if the pavement had of been drier perhaps I would of been a little more impressed. I can still see with the low and ride but I could ask for a little more. The good part is you don't have to settle for low because the next mode ( medium ) provides more than enough light to comfortably ride with. Want more? than you go to high ( then boost ) and you have a very nice amount of light and that carries very well to the sides.

The beam pattern on the stock bT21 is quite wide. While the lamp has good range the frosted optics limit the intensity of the forward throw. I could still see a good ways, maybe 150 ft. but at that distance everything is barely illuminated. No problems within the 100 ft. range though, even on medium. High and Boost are of course are even better. The people who like a floody bar lamp might prefer the BT21 over the BT40 although the BT40 has a better low mode and a more interesting mode switch. Haven't had a chance to compare throw between the two but likely they are somewhat the same.

I can't recommend the BT21 as a helmet lamp because I feel the stock beam pattern is just too wide. On the other hand if you can get a set of more tighter optics to fit the lamp the BT21 could possible work very well on the helmet. I'll be ordering some replacement optics so If I like the resultant beam pattern I'll be sure to let you know. Would be real nice if Nitefighter could just include a set of spot optics with the kit and let the user decide which to run. Do this and they stand to sell twice as many as they are now.

Today it looks like I'll finally get a mountain bike ride in. With 2-3" of rain in the last three days it's going to be a tough call on where I won't be riding through muck though. ummmm...tough choices...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

scar said:


> Where did the video review go? Noticed is has was removed from CPF also. I wanted to see it
> 
> ***


That was my fault was trying to clean clips out of my YouTube and accidently deleted it, it'll be back up tonight or tomorrow on all sites.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

First ever trail ride videos uploading now . God going to trails I know (last attempt was very short lived at a trail I'd never ridden) I actually prefer night riding. Can't see distractions just get in the zone immediately. Me and bike just zipped along like we were one after I got my lights adjusted where I like them.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> First ever trail ride videos uploading now . God going to trails I know (last attempt was very short lived at a trail I'd never ridden) I actually prefer night riding. Can't see distractions just get in the zone immediately. Me and bike just zipped along like we were one after I got my lights adjusted where I like them.


 Sounds like you had a good time (happy for you)! Well I went ahead and ordered a BT21 and I have a couple of quick questions. I think I remember you posting that you don't want to mix (bar/helmet) lights with different emitter tints, and if so why is this not recommended? When I ordered my kit I selected "expedited delivery", any Idea what kind of total ship time I should expect? Thanks!
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I mixed mine, 3 and 4c seems to work fine together, I couldnt tell a difference. I didnt know there was a difference till GJHS pointed it out so I put my 3c yinding and 3c MJ880 clone against a white wall with my bt21, then I could tell. OUt on the path, nope. Its a "dont mix cool and nuetral".....ya the difference is so bad and im so used to NW emitters now I cant stand CW, just changed my 2 flashlights that were CW to 3C, SO MUCH LESS PAINFUL ON THE EYEBALLS, especially when its damp/humid out.

AS for delivery time, expedited used to mean DHL express, so 2-3 days at GB, then 2-4 in transit. But last couple times I chose that option, I got shipping confirm in less than 2 days, but took 2 weeks to get here. I biatched about it and...GB rep is being told its a website bug. Which I do notice, the price jumps around. Think basically have to choose the higher priced of the shipping options for fastest delivery, I dont know.

Edit to that. I checked my track on current order and last order that went this new way, delay was the fact USPS damaged it on the last one, so I should have mt bt21 early next week if not monday. Not bad, 7 working days, im alright with that vs a month for free shipping.

Still working on that headache, cause be another week at least before my other bt21 lighthead shows up.

PS: Had fun was an understatement,lol. Between I finally found my sweet spots with everything on my bike again after changing bars, to 0 offset post, ergon ga2?? grips (the newest version of the ergon grips without that stupid big palm support), forks dialed, me and bike just sang beautiful music. ANd with no distractions (cant see crap outside of lit area) the nervousness wore off about half way up the climb in, and I just flew. Was a great feeling mixing all of that into one perfect, undisturbed package of a ride.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Mr. Mole, When it comes to Chinese shipping I really don't think it makes a big difference on the type of shipping you want. I know that's not how it should be but it just is. Expect 16-18 days to east coast USA from the time you get your shipping confirmation from Gearbest. ~ ~

Lucky me, I got a decent mountain bike ride in last night. Took along all my neutral LED lamps ; BT40S, BT21 and K/D Duo-clone.

*BT21 vs. K/D Duo-clone:* The 21 has the wider beam pattern and the D-clone slightly more throw. Very slightly more throw. Advantage BT21. Bt21 has 4-modes but KD D-clone has programmable 3-mode. Slight advantage to K/D clone. BT21 is over-all brighter, advantage BT21. With better optics BT21 should be brighter at distance.; advantage BT21. KD clone with 3-programmable modes might be easier to operate on the helmet. The winner, in my opinion....BT21 but it is close.

*BT21 vs. BT40S ( on the bars )*....I'll cut to the chase. BT40S wins. While the BT21 might have slightly more throw it really isn't that noticeable. The biggest difference is the brighter low mode on the BT40S. It is just so nice and it is almost as bright ( or about the same ) as the BT21's medium mode. After that both lamps are about the same once you get to the higher modes. STill, I think I like the BT40S's beam pattern a little more. ( edit> ) Lastly, I almost forgot to mention that I really like the two-way up/down mode switch of the BT40S because it allows you faster mode changes, a big plus when bouncing over rough terrain.

Other than that both Nitefighter lamps make good bar lamps. I did make the mistake by forgetting to put black tape over the BT21's mode button. While this makes no difference on the higher modes it makes a BIG difference when in low mode. Low mode on the 21 is almost like the sub-low mode on the early Gloworm X2's . I think they need to up the output on that mode by at least 50 lumens. If they did that than I'd be fine with it. Actually though, the low mode on the 21 works VERY WELL when on the road. Almost the perfect amount of light so as to not be too bright for oncoming traffic.

*BT40S and BT21 in Combo on the bars:* I tried this tonight using a Y-cable just for the heck of it. My God you should see how good this looks.
Absolutely beautiful to behold. No, I didn't ride with both on the bars because truthfully, I really didn't want to spoil myself. Tomorrow though, I might just have to give in to lumen lust. :devil:

( side note; at no time did the Nitefighter battery go to blue. It stayed green for the whole 1.5 hr. ride. Even during the short ( one minute ) Combo test it still stayed green. This was after I had rode about 45 minutes using various output levels. Only time the BT21 ever got hot was when I used boost mode. The 21 heats up fast when in boost. )


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK fixed the video:











@Cat: I really personally dont like the KD2 version of the duo clone, takes alot of work to make work correctly and dirver though you would think its pushing hard, the yinding driver actually does do to such inefficiency/PWM modulation of KD2 driver (is my guess). I loved the programming but in my yinding for some reason it was drawing 3A to produce slightly less light than my current mod of 2.7 peak on the yinding driver.

That siad I have mine, modded and its on the commuter with some 4C emitters in it. Runs good as long as your not on high much (or modded like I did)

I do like the bt40 beam on the bars ALOT more than I thought I would. Not a round head light person but bt40s does SO BEAUTIFUL on the bars, then a glowworm spot and leddna 15deg optic in the lid lamp, youll see when video is ready from last light.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok heres the "part 2: trail test"


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

ANd the Trail ride by itself with some mood music


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Nitefighter BT-21; Trail tests-continued*

I got another ride in tonight with the BT21 on the bars. Tonight I thought it might be interesting to include the BT40S in combo with the BT21, both on the bars.
Both lamps have memory..( more on that later ). I preset the BT40S on the highest mode and turned it off. Both lamps connected to Nitefighter battery using a Y-cable. The BT21 was going to be the main light with the 40S on standby if or when I felt the need for ultra 2000 lumen+.

Trail conditions were good. Moist but with only a couple mucky spots. Tonight I made sure I used a bit of black electrical tape on the bright voltage indicator of the BT21 AND IT MADE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE!.
Particularly when using the low mode. Without the bright green light shining in my face the low was much more useful. Regardless, I found I was only using the low mode on the 21 when I was resting.

Things went well tonight. When I reached my favorite down-hill section I set the BT21 on Boost, the SSX3 I had on the helmet on high and I took off. Tonight I was feeling good so I was pushing the envelope to test my own speed/skill level. Goodness I was moving. Didn't matter what obstacles came up, roots, logs, log ramps, up/down rollercoaster turns, I was flying. When I came to the end of the section I stopped to try to figure out how I finished it so quick...."What happened to that hill I always have a hard time getting up"? I said to myself. "What about the small stream crossing and the mud bog"?....I don't remember...Oh, wait a minute...I did that stuff, I just did it so fast I forgot I did it...:thumbsup:

Then it occurred to me that I never did hit the BT40S. Thinking back on it, I never felt at any time that I didn't have enough light. Matter of fact I had more than enough. No surprise there actually because the section I was on had very short lines of sight. The longest LOS was on one particular up-down roller coaster section so maybe 100 ft as the longest LOS at any given time.

After that sweet romp section I had a more milder/flatter area to ride through with constant weaving turns. No need for big light here so I took most of that on medium with the helmet lamp on low. I stopped to rest just before a tricky short steep climb that then crosses a short open section. This short section of trail is on the side of a steep hill with the trail crossing the hill at a right angle. This section is tricky because once you climb up the short steep climb you then have to maintain momentum as you cross the open narrow trail. Not only is the trail narrow but loaded with baby-head sized rocks and accompanied with small dips. The perfect recipe for knocking you off the trail or for wedging your front wheel between rocks. One slip up and you can find yourself rolling down the edge of the grassy hill. I was doing great, made the short steep climb, no problem...started crossing the open narrow trail, dodging and rolling over babyheads as I went. Got about half-way and was almost across. Suddenly as I'm dodging a rock something grabs my front wheel. Luckily I'm going slow enough that I don't endo. When I stop I see that a piece of dead wood with a "Y" at the end has trapped my front wheel through the spokes. As I'm pulling this out I'm thinking to myself, "WTF, Where the F*** did this come from"? Not a tree in sight for 100ft., nothing but field and rock and somehow it was wedged at the perfect angle, at the perfect height, in the perfect direction....with a Y at the end...WAIT A MINUTE!....This has got to be a BOOBY TRAP. Yep, people do stuff like that sometimes, I've seen it before.

The last downhill of the loop is quite nice. Once again weaving through trees and flying over rocks. As I'm approaching the bottom I know I have a real technical short section of baby heads that I cleared the last time I did the ride. Right as I'm on top of it I look down and suddenly see a bunch of extra loose rocks where there were none before. If I'd had of hit those golf-ball size rocks the front wheel would of easily slipped out and I'd of been eating dirt, sticker-bush and baby-head. Another booby trap...(?)...not sure but on that section there is no margin for error. You have to either dodge or roll over those baby-heads without loosing your line. I had no idea where the extra golf-ball size loose rock came from.

Anyway, finished up the ride pretty quickly. I will note that the voltage indicator turned to blue just before the last weaving downhill section. Never did turn on the BT40S.  I was having so much fun I guess I forgot it was even there.  Oh well, didn't need it anyway.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*Quality Build Ya right!*

*Just received my light via their eBay account and low and behold the the button is off and loose in the bag . Now I get to see how much they stand by their lights,, will keep informed not happy wanted to test it on tonight's ride*:madmax::madmax::madmax:


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Is it the camera angle, or is the switch not centered in the opening?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They are just slightly foward in the housing but just barely. 99% of what your seeing the the camera angle. Its location isn't optional, that driver is very specifically built for the housing. Should have taken a pic of the smoked one but it stunk lol. Was still pissed at myself till my new one arrived Saturday. 



Ya Mole, 7 days from order to delivery with the current express set up, ain't DHL comes postal service but same amount of travel time now (my biatching about it got the new method sorted out faster).

@Rakuman: The documents say 2 yr warranty so other than wait time Ill be they'll at least take care of it. Being yours is out completely you may be able to push it back in, the polished ring may not be down too far to do so.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

Rakuman said:


> *Just received my light via their eBay account and low and behold the the button is off and loose in the bag . Now I get to see how much they stand by their lights,, will keep informed not happy wanted to test it on tonight's ride*:madmax::madmax::madmax:


How is the silicon cover supposed to be applied??

Is it just pressfit with the chrome ring? Is it possible to take out the ring and then put the silicon in place and then press the ring back?

I don't understand the construction, because the silicon does not appear to be broken. Would it not be possible to assemble it correctly again. But maybe the ring is too hard to remove again...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The ring is polished aluminum, and it DOESNT come out, at least easily (ive tried). But being as his is laying loose like that, Im willing to bet it can be put back in, not easily, but itll go back in place, the press the ring down a bit more make sure it doesnt come out again (or leave it so you can take on and off at will)


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

The silicon cover on the BT-21 is obviously a problem. 
If someone finds a diy solution for this, please let us know. Or if someone finds out how to assemble the silicon cover as it was intended to be assembled, please let us know.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

While the silicone button is not inspiring, I wouldn't think it should be too hard to squeeze it back into the hole ( or am I wrong about that? ). I'm certainly sure that such a design choice was not the best idea as far as preventing water from entering the lamp. Nevertheless, I'm not worried about it because since I'm using electrical tape over the button on the one I have there's not going to be too much chance for water to get inside anyway.

As for getting a lamp off of ebay and it arriving with the button loose that is odd but still it doesn't surprise me. I doubt something like that would be done on purpose though. Buyers choice, keep it or send it back, flip of the coin. Question, did the lamp come with a battery ( the whole kit )?


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

Is it possible to ask lumingear how the silicon cover is intended to be fitted? Does the aluminium ring has any function at all?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Appel said:


> The silicon cover on the BT-21 is obviously a problem.
> 
> If someone finds a diy solution for this, please let us know. Or if someone finds out how to assemble the silicon cover as it was intended to be assembled, please let us know.


Ive already tried all these things, you forget I own 2 of them, turning on into a custom project..

The silver (polished aluminum ring) is pressed down and holds it in place. Simple as that. You have to get that ring at least partially out to get the button back in. The bottom part of the button has to go between the ring and the housing. Then ring pressed down to hold it.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Can you get to the button from the inside? Take the driver out and fix it that way?


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> While the silicone button is not inspiring, I wouldn't think it should be too hard to squeeze it back into the hole ( or am I wrong about that? ).
> 
> As for getting a lamp off of ebay and it arriving with the button loose that is odd but still it doesn't surprise me. I doubt something like that would be done on purpose though. Buyers choice, keep it or send it back, flip of the coin. Question, did the lamp come with a battery ( the whole kit )?


*Cat you are correct about putting the silicone cap back, able to get in back in no problem , Problem is the fit is so loose that the button pops off with any sideways pressure which would happen quite often if using for helmet light. I will glue and try to press the ring in further to remedy this.. I was really surprised to find the switch off and just sitting in the bag I bought the lighthead only with Orings for $32. as I already have like 15 battery packs.
As for the ebay seller is "Nightfighter lights" and they promptly refunded my money and let me keep the light:thumbsup: 
My initial thoughts on the light its a nice looking build just need better quality control inspections before shipping out. the switch is a little glitchy and cycles in random patterns similar to my solarstorm2 clone.
sometimes it skips turbo mode.sometimes it goes from low straight to turbo.
Ok who has a source for the 15 degree optics I want to switch these out for the helmet use?*


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

rakuman: if yo have a socket set and a hammer you should be able to fix the pop out issue. or something similar that will fit the silver ring and let the button stay inside it. Take stop mount off (plastic dont want to break it) and tap the silver ring down further. it should pinch and hold the ring in place.

As for optics, action-led-lights glowworm spot optic will work, otherwise fasttech has 15deg and 30 deg spot optics for cheap. I have both I actually run a glowworm spot and a 15deg spot together and work great for me.


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## Strife21 (Apr 23, 2013)

Is the BT21 significantly better then the BT40? I just purchased the BT40 and really like it but feel maybe I should have got the BT21. The light being used for the bars.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

@ varider (missed your comment) driver is held in with silicone potting compound its not coming out easily. And button can't be put back in from bottom. If you look at his pic, there I a shelf inside that the button rests on then that silver ring presses down over it.





Strife: Bt21 is brighter on high a little, a good bit brighter on turbo. Either one works for bars fine. look at my video above but take into account camera sucks at night so not as bright in video as it actually is while I was riding. Either one for bars works great. Bt40 definitely has a smoother more even beam pattern though.


That said I can't let my beautiful blue yinding sit on the shelf. So its now on helmet and bt21 went to my bar light. The look of round housings bugs me unless its 2 side by side.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok forgot to mention, I figured out how to get the driver out easily.










I let my light heat up to around 135f (no air flow) then shut off, let case cool enough I could hold it without issue. Then with a straight pick (actual tool, come in a set of 4 at hardware store) I careful separated silicone from case on the bottom side of the driver. Then ever so careful not to damage driver broke chunks loose and took the silicone chunks out. Got out as much as I could as driver has to be able to drop down a tad so switch will come out.

DONT PULL ON THE DRIVER, push the battery cable into the case from the back while gently pushing down on the driver so button comes down enough.

Should need nothing and a fair bit of pressure pushing the battery cable to pop driver out at this point. If button wont go down enough to clr you didn't clean out enough of the silicone from the bottom of the driver.

I cleaned off most of it so you can see the internals. 2 r100 sense resistors. Like bt40s the driver doesn't use a leda chip, uses some other chip.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Strife21 said:


> Is the BT21 significantly better then the BT40? I just purchased the BT40 and really like it but feel maybe I should have got the BT21. The light being used for the bars.


If you're using for the bars, the BT40S is the better way to go. Better low mode on the BT40S and the up/down switch is easier to work with on the bars. Both lamps provide a good beam pattern for the bars. The BT21 is interesting because it has optics that can be replaced. With better spot optics the BT21 would work better on the helmet. Otherwise I consider both ( stock ) set-ups to be for the bars. I've now done more than a couple rides with both lamps and while both work fine I prefer the BT40S for the bars. The only exception to that would be for road use. For road I would prefer the BT21 on the bars.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tigris, would you make better big clear and sharp pictures of the driver. I'm cuorious about chip it is using. Besides LEDA I know a SM5241/QX5241 was used in some cases. It has 0.2V feedback voltage. LEDA ought to have 0.25V.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*The gap between the aluminum ring and the light is just too tight to get the lip on the silicone button to fit between so looks like I'm going to have to glue it any ideas what glue to use super glue doesn't recommend bonding to silicone.*


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I can get the name of the stuff I used when I get off work. Works well but gotta trim that lip off the bottom.

Ledoman,

Camera wont get chip info, ill get the numbers off chips tonight though. Not sure what they use.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Rakuman said:


> *The gap between the aluminum ring and the light is just too tight to get the lip on the silicone button to fit between so looks like I'm going to have to glue it any ideas what glue to use super glue doesn't recommend bonding to silicone.*


I figured that if you can't get the aluminum ring off then you might just as well trim the lip of the button down. Not sure I'd go with using any kind of glue. If something got on the switch itself it might not function properly. No, it it were me I'd just trim it so it would drop over the switch and then hold it in place using electrical tape. Done right it should hold up and shed water but likely you would have to keep an eye on it and replace the tape if it starts to look worn. Heck, I use tape on mine anyway just to block out most of the light of the indicators.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Ya Mole, 7 days from order to delivery with the current express set up, ain't DHL comes postal service but same amount of travel time now (my biatching about it got the new method sorted out faster).


Had a message on the phone when I got home today from DHL saying they would be by tomorrow (6/10) for delivery of the BT21. Placed order the evening of 6/5. China to Arizona in 5 days, pretty good for less than $3 extra! If it's true looks like tomorrow night at my house I'll have a 3 way light meter match, Yinding vs BT21 vs Gloworm X2V3.1.
Mole


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

IMO the gloworm was a TINY bit brighter than the YD stock for stock, the bt21 was a noticeable jump but the warmer tint and floodier optics make it more difficult to perceive visually. Can't wait to see how it stacks up

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

The weather hasn't been cooperating so it looks like Friday is photo day (weather permitting). I will try to compare all the GB neutrals


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Sorry ledoman, the chips have silicone stuck in the markings I got a BD off one and a S 75 out of the other. They arent the normal ones we are used to seeing. Noticed that in the BT40, maybe ill pop the driver out of it (much easier) and get the numbers off those. But calculator has a 0.05 resistance across the 2 R100s and emitters ARE in series (I double checked). So to come up close to actual output 0.15V reference is what im coming up with for that of the chip in these.

Onto other things:

Changed connector in mine just to test my theory and I was correct. BT21 now will push 2.9A (maybe 3 on a fresh 4 cell pack). Just used one of the extension cables they give you with them.

Changed optics to twin 45deg LEDDNA optics.

And added my remote mod that I do (last one need to order more lol).

Did realize something. Gloworm optics bring out more of the yellow from the lights. My yinding on KNOWN 3c emitters looks just like my BT21 color wise now. Since my set up is bt21 on bars and yinding on lid, they go quite well together.





Right side of pic, left side of handlebars, you can barely see the remote button sticking up being the brake lever.



Hot spot isnt like that, I messed up camera setting and didnt realize it till Im posting this. Hot spot drowns out full flood of the optics a bit. But I love the pattern now, its perfect.

This will be my normal weather set up, Ill go bt21 lid and my modded mj880 clone on the bars when summer gets in full swing cause i dont think yinding on medium (1.4A on mine) will take the heat for long. Nice thing is that I can actually run 2 cell packs for my normal rides. After Saturday night which was about 45+ mins of use, my 2 cell on the lid still had over half useable power left on panasonic cells and nitefighter pack was well over half left as well for running at 1.9A for about 15-20mins longer.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> I can get the name of the stuff I used when I get off work. Works well but gotta trim that lip off the bottom.
> 
> Ledoman,
> 
> Camera wont get chip info, ill get the numbers off chips tonight though. Not sure what they use.


*Were you able to get the name of the glue you used?
Cheers 
Rakuman*


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its locktite stick and seal. Got it from Wally world or home depot but should be able to anywhere similar. Its a silicone based adhesive and wont damage the buttons and no fumes that will cause corrosion like rtv.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> ....Onto other things:
> 
> Changed connector in mine just to test my theory and I was correct. BT21 now will push 2.9A (maybe 3 on a fresh 4 cell pack). Just used one of the extension cables they give you with them.
> 
> ...


You mention changing optics on BT21 to LEDDNA ( 45° ) optics. What was the difference that you preferred? Is is because it makes the tint look more 3C?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No to spread the beam a tad more and even it out alot more since stock is more spotty. I have dual 45 in my 880 clone too, for bars I love it.


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## warthogism (May 3, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> ...
> 
> As for optics, action-led-lights glowworm spot optic will work, otherwise fasttech has 15deg and 30 deg spot optics for cheap. I have both I actually run a glowworm spot and a 15deg spot together and work great for me.


With a bt40s on the bars, I was also looking to get a tighter spot for the bt21 that goes on my helmet. What size optics will fit? are the fasttech ones drop-in?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes, there is only a couple options for aftermarket optics. Carclo (which suck) the ones for the gloworm x2 v2/xs and the ones that LEDDNA and Fasttech carry. The difference lie in how tall they are compared to the stock optics. Carclo are a bit shorter. Gloworm and leddna/fasttech optics are a bit taller. They all fit just may require different thickness oring in from of them.

It isn't a matter of drop in or not, its fit or dont for optics. There are odd sizes out there and descriptions call them 21mm or 20mm or like gloworm ones. No size at all cause they are meant for the gloworm lights. But they fit these too.



More details and pics throughout this thread and somewhat in the OP as well I believe.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> No to spread the beam a tad more and even it out alot more since stock is more spotty. I have dual 45 in my 880 clone too, for bars I love it.


Okay, you wanted more flood, I get it. Still, I don't think I'd call the stock optics spotty. Now the beam pattern of the SSX2's, that I would call spotty.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol well ya compared to something with reflector/lens definitely not spotty hehe. I forget everything I do is on optics including converting everything to optics (except my flashlights)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Had a message on the phone when I got home today from DHL saying they would be by tomorrow (6/10) for delivery of the BT21. Placed order the evening of 6/5. China to Arizona in 5 days, pretty good for less than $3 extra! If it's true looks like tomorrow night at my house I'll have a 3 way light meter match, Yinding vs BT21 vs Gloworm X2V3.1.
> Mole


Yes, I got the light yesterday. Initial impression of the kit matches what everyone else has said, pretty impressive for $60. In-door wall beam shots looked pretty yellow but all my other lights are 1A tint so this was not unexpected. First ride reveals the yellowness is not noticeable at all, excellent since this is usually a problem for me. The light definately makes some power and is noticeably stronger than the Yinding. No heat problems on it's initial 32 mi. (mostly in the dark) ride either (I ran it on boost most of the time, speeds never dropped below 10 mph and it was still 90° when I got home). Everything looks good so far.

Now for the light meter test that I promised and unfortunately can't provide today. This light is far less user friendly in regards to changing optics than the Gloworm/Gemini/Yinding lights I'm used to dealing with. This slowed me down considerably and in the end optic fit problems and different light mount styles were giving me inconsistent results (I always double check my readings). It just got too late to try to work out all the bugs so I'll have to try again tonight, Sorry Guys!
Mole


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm hoping that we can talk Andy into supplying Francois with some of the nitefighter kits when it comes time to do the next light shootout. Would like to see how they fare against some of the big boys

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

OK, here's some light meter numbers.

Yinding: 124 lux** (156 lux w/Gloworm S/S optics)

BT21: 177 lux (Leddna S/S - 189 lux, GW S/S 209 lux, 1 Leddna spot/1 GW spot [Tigris style] 200 lux)

GW X2V3.1: 200 lux

** I expected this # to be higher but for some reason my Yinding no longer likes its stock optics. GW optics returned results similar to previous tests.

I got another 31 mi. ride in tonight, this time with about 5 mi of single track. Ran it on boost the whole time at slow speeds and no overheating in 90° ride temps (light-head was really hot to the touch though). I ran it with a CW tint helmet light and no problems, ran it with no helmet light on trails with no problems. Pretty impressive performance so far!
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> OK, here's some light meter numbers.
> 
> Yinding: 124 lux** (156 lux w/Gloworm S/S optics)
> 
> ...


Interesting. From what you've written I'm tempted to try a couple Gloworm spot optics in the BT21.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mole I dont like you right now, well my wife won't lol. Time to build a test rig for light output, more you keep posting more I want to expand to doing that too.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Here's a link to get you started tigris99!

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Interesting. From what you've written I'm tempted to try a couple Gloworm spot optics in the BT21.


It was late last night when I did the tests and I probably didn't put all the information in the post I should have. To clarify the Gloworm spot is for the XS model and the Leddna is a 15°. All my rides with the BT21 have been with the stock optics so far so I can't actually tell you how they'll look but I've had good luck with them in the other lights I've used them in. If I ride tonight I'll run the GW optics and post what I think. One thing using the GW optics in the BT21 is that they are a tight fit. I don't think you'll be able to use the (PITA) O-ring optic seals without having some light escaping at the bezel light-head interface.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Mole I dont like you right now, well my wife won't lol. Time to build a test rig for light output, more you keep posting more I want to expand to doing that too.


Good! Then I won't have to stay up till 2 in the morning doing these tests LOL. Besides this is actually your fault for making this light sound so good that I had to buy #14 and I'll probably have to buy a wider set of bars for the next light collection shots too.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

MRMOLE said:


> Good! Then I won't have to stay up till 2 in the morning doing these tests LOL. Besides this is actually your fault for making this light sound so good that I had to buy #14 and I'll probably have to buy a wider set of bars for the next light collection shots too.
> 
> Mole


Ahahaha

Quit running skinny bars you wont have that problem 

Im usually up till 2am anyway, I work second shift. And getting addicted to this night riding thing cause no wife biatching at me cause she's sleeping.

@garry, thnx man. I have been poking around at research for it a little bit.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok first ride with the BT21 and I'm impressed with how bright this light is. On turbo this light is brighter than the Yinding for sure. It has a nice, almost square beam pattern and really puts light down on the front tire. With the help of Jokaankit, I took beam shots of all the lights and will post them soon along with my review. So far, this light is very nice, bright and a good deal.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*OK this light is bright I put in 2 GW spot optics and it really woke the bird up for the lid , makes my $100+ Gemini duo with spots look like crap, I just ordered another for the bars. Price is right for sure Nitefighter BT21 Bright LED Front Bicycle Light Light Head Only with O Rings | eBay.
the only thing that sucks is the switch is still glitchy and sometimes starts in high then goes to low but Im not complaining this one was free,, we will see if the next one comes with a loose switch cover or acts the same glitchy way but for 32 bucks even if you have to mod it it is a good deal.*


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

By the way everyone. If you want gopro mount adapters for them (specially made to fit them) I got the specs to Vanc and my first one is on the way.

Its a finned gopro adapter mount like the yinding version, but a bit wider and will fit into the bottom inside the notches.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Rakuman said:


> *OK this light is bright I put in 2 GW spot optics and it really woke the bird up for the lid , makes my $100+ Gemini duo with spots look like crap, I just ordered another for the bars. Price is right for sure Nitefighter BT21 Bright LED Front Bicycle Light Light Head Only with O Rings | eBay.
> the only thing that sucks is the switch is still glitchy and sometimes starts in high then goes to low but Im not complaining this one was free,, we will see if the next one comes with a loose switch cover or acts the same glitchy way but for 32 bucks even if you have to mod it it is a good deal.*


I agree on the spot optics, seems to provide quite a bit of extra throw! On the glitchy switch, did you know the switch has memory and will turn on in whatever mode it was shut off in?
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

i forgot to mention that, my bad, didnt even think about it. Only time mode resets is when you unplug it


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Well I put the BT21 on the bars of my trainer bike, pointed a fan at it and did a run-time test of the battery. Good news is it ran 2:20 on Turbo instead of the claimed 2 hrs. Ya! Bad news is it also recorded a max light-head body temp of 134.9°. No thermal protection step-down but that's the highest "fan cooled" temp I've recorded on any of my lights. On my ride last night I put the BT21 on the bars and the yinding up top and while I love riding in 100°+ temps. at night my lights did not! When I got to the trail section I've been riding lately to test lights it had just gotten fully dark and temps were still in the low 100's. The first section is narrow desert single-track on the side of mountain, 5 mph speeds and the BT21 only lasted about 1/4 mi. before it stepped down. wawawa! Not a big problem since high on this light is fine (enough light and no overheat problems) but shows the upper ambient temp limit for the stock light is around 100°. Tigris, I guess I should thank you now for sending Vancbiker the BT21 specs in advance cause I'm definitely ordering one of his finned gopro mounts for this light plus I have some other ideas to help cool its sizzle. One other thing, while doing the run-time test the battery life indicator never went to flashing red, just red to dead (Shut down). Again not a big deal, just don't expect this warning (at least set in turbo mode).
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ive never had a light step down till I had case temps over 140. They are specced with step down but probably allow higher temps than were used to. Hell my yinding required a 155 case temp for several seconds before it stepped down. Normal rated thermal step down is around 55C for 131F at the thermosistor (the couple of heads I dug up info on)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Ive never had a light step down till I had case temps over 140. They are specced with step down but probably allow higher temps than were used to. Hell my yinding required a 155 case temp for several seconds before it stepped down. Normal rated thermal step down is around 55C for 131F at the thermosistor (the couple of heads I dug up info on)


Hey, every light has its limits and now we know that 100° on Turbo is it depending on speed. Now we get to see what we can do to make it better! Fantastic we can get an extra 20 min. run-time over claimed out of the battery.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wow I was half asleep when I replied or something lol. Missed the whole thing about the outside temps

Took 100deg outside at low speeds to shut it down, that's pretty damn nice compared to others. I dont have to worry about anything here cause rarely does it hit 100 during the day but the humidity always sucks here.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Btw it seems tint is very optic dependant. Known 3c tint looks the about the same as bt21 output when matching optics. Like the gloworm optics make my 3c yinding look 4c.



Comparing emitter phosphors stock bt21 emitters look the exact same as my 3c yinding. Im leaning more to the matter that there 3c not 4c.


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## Desert Runner (Apr 30, 2015)

Is this deal still going?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Actually dont even need the codes for these now. Convinced them just to list them on the site at group buy price.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Alright new gopro finned adapter from vancbiker came today. Perfect fit and it fits into all the machining on the bottom of the bt21 for maximum heat transfer.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

That looks pretty sweet! What is it attached to? Link?

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh its the GUB extension that r $11 at gearbest.

http://www.gearbest.com/bicycling-gear/pp_182054.html

Then I got one of the cheap aluminum gopro mounts too.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Awesome, thanks! 

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Btw it seems tint is very optic dependant. Known 3c tint looks the about the same as bt21 output when matching optics. Like the gloworm optics make my 3c yinding look 4c.
> 
> *Comparing emitter phosphors stock bt21 emitters look the exact same as my 3c yinding. Im leaning more to the matter that there 3c not 4c.*


This 3C vs. 4C thing....I was beginning to wonder myself if the difference is THAT obvious.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I seriously can't see one, gloworm optics make 3c look far more yellow than even my 3c flashlights. So could be 3 vs 4c is not noticeable near like different optics.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK temp test done on the gopro mount. Went from hanging around 130-135F (ambient temp pending) to 120-122F.

Put it back on the bike just to check thermal transfer through the aluminum gopro bar mount, thermal transfer all the way down. Even with the little bit of contact between the bar mount and the extension due to making a 31.8 bar mount fit a 22mm diameter tube, the tube temp raised about 15-18 degs above ambient temp within an inch of the mount.

Mole, I think aluminum mount from Vanc with an aluminum gopro mount to the bars, youll be ok for the most part. I could run turbo on this thing all I ant and never get close to step down (unless im standing around in dead air for 15 mins or more) Not sure how that will translate on the helmet since helmet will be better air flow but no aluminum beyond the adapter mount.


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## Desert Runner (Apr 30, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> Actually dont even need the codes for these now. Convinced them just to list them on the site at group buy price.


Thanks for the heads up.. The BT-40s still available?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

All at gearbest.com. They aren't going anywhere nitfighter is a permanent brand they'll be carrying. Bt40 is also just listed at sale price too.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK Cat, Im going with my "DONT RIDE A TRAIL YOUVE NEVER RIDDEN AT NIGHT" thing again. Tried again. Went better, forgot mount for camera at home , without realizing it I rode the whole thing, including the small black rated decent. which I about pissed myself but cleared it, cause it was still very wet, very slick, and alot of smooth rock under the mud.....

Problem was, new trail we are building (well I JUST started helping as DR just ok my arm for it), no signage and horse trails crossing ALL OVER THE PLACE. All I had was a map, and was confusing.

But after getting out and examiningg map on my computer (instead of my phone) I realized all I had ridden and how much fun i had, how stupid I was cuz I shouldnt have gotten lost, I just rode the trail in reverse which is what screwed me up. I WAS ALL SMILES. TOO MUCH FUN!!! Yinding dont like the warm summer nights in the woods here though. Cant keep speed up enough to keep it on high. MEdium gets HOT,, even low is a bit too warm. BT21, turbo got hot when I forget to drop it down for a long climb but no where near hot enough to step down.


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## Desert Runner (Apr 30, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> All at gearbest.com. They aren't going anywhere nitfighter is a permanent brand they'll be carrying. Bt40 is also just listed at sale price too.


Ordered my BT40S yesterday. Thanks for your help. Can't wait to do some much needed night rides...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> What's the point of having all those heat fins if you can't leave it on turbo the whole time. How do you get into the turbo mode anyway, press and hold? Does is automatically go back to high after a certain amount of time? That's the last thing you want if you are riding a long descent. ...


When it comes to lamps with small form factors it's just the nature of the beast so to speak. The BT21 is driven really hard when on the brightest mode. As such you are not really going to be able to use it for extended periods unless you are moving fast and the ambient air temp is not too warm.

So far I've not had mine step-down on it's own but I doubt I've used the turbo mode for more than ten minutes at a time. I don't live near mountains so I don't have any downhills that last more than 15 minutes or so. I might have to do a "fan test" just to see how long it will run

Hopefully in the future some of the new technology I was reading about last night will start to filter down to the consumer market and we will start to see better heat dissipation from the heat sinks.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat, do share, you have me curious.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> so far I've not had mine step-down on it's own but I doubt I've used the turbo mode for more than ten minutes at a time. I don't live near mountains so I don't have any downhills that last more than 15 minutes or so. I might have to do a "fan test" just to see how long it will run.


From my experiences with the BT21 you won't be able to get the light to step down using a fan. It took 100° ambient temps. at low speeds for me to activate the protection mode on my light, which I think is pretty good considering how small the light-head is and how much light it produces. That was with the stock mount too, Vancbiker finned mounts usually reduce running temps 10-15° (in door tests). Any way I know you know all this Cat except for the fan test part, the rest was for varirider's benefit.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

MRMOLE said:


> From my experiences with the BT21 you won't be able to get the light to step down using a fan. It took 100° ambient temps. at low speeds for me to activate the protection mode on my light, which I think is pretty good considering how small the light-head is and how much light it produces.
> Mole


Or a bad thing. Perhaps it's heating components up too hot for too long and not set for an apropriate cutoff.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Light head doesn't reach temps that will damage the driver. Not like the yinding. Its purely a fact of bigger case with much better thermal management. Everyone of these lights ive tested all step down around the same temps. Its just what it takes for them to reach that temp range.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Or a bad thing. Perhaps it's heating components up too hot for too long and not set for an apropriate cutoff.
> 
> -Garry


Garry, if you wanted me to test the temperature @ step down you should have just asked. 149.9° light-head case temp @ shut down, 5 min no air flow, 80° ambient temp., pretty standard for the lights I've tested. Thanks for the motivation, it's was the only light I own I hadn't tested yet.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Sorry, next time I'll be more clear . Thanks!

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Thnx mole I thought I posted that in the op with everything else. Sorry garry should have put that info up with everything else apparently forgot


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

Time to purchase. (unless someone comes up with a compelling reason to get the Nitenumen, like NW tint)

I am thinking of picking up optics to try extending the throw on one lamp, possibly widening the other lamp. LEDDNA has a bunch and I'm not certain which "size" to get: 20mm dia, 21mm dia, 13.5 mm height, "XP-L, XP-G2, XT-E, XP-G, XP-E," or "XHP50, XML2, XM-L?". (I read the threads, honest! But couldn't find the specifics I was looking for.)

As long as the specs for the optics say XM L2, and what diameter, which height are needed? Never done this before, so can only take a guess of what to buy, but five bucks worth of optics is a lot of options.

To extend the throw, can you recommend one or two of the optics from LEDDNA?

For wider beam on the road I'm looking at trying this one: 
20mm Elliptical Spot Lens Optic 30°x60° for CREE XHP50, XML2, XM-L LED


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Get the 20mm 15deg optics for throw. What your looking at isn't a spot, its a wide angle. For max throw, least degrees possible. For most of these kinda lights its always 20mm. The gloworm v3 optics from leddna, spot optic, is great but a bit expensive for an optic. Worth it imo. I run one of those and 1 15deg optic from leddna (fasttech sells the same ones, having problems getting my last order from leddna but fasttech ive never had an issue with)

For wide beam obviously still the 20mm but its whether you want a wide but short beam, or a wide total area beam. Like for road riding a 20x60 deg would be pretty good, 30x 60 you spread light pretty thin over big area. Since I ride narrow trails I use the 45 deg optic, sometimes the 60deg. The 10x45 is an odd pattern I dont like at all.



Basically only buy the 20mm optics from leddna that dont have the holders with them (their junk optics worse than even the cheapest stock optic) which are listed as 15-45-60 then th elliptical ones you linked or gloworm v3 spot optic or the wide one, not the frosted ones.

And being the price, buy one or 2 of each, easy to test them out to figure out which you like better.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Some info that may help you (note I still need to do additional testing / beamshots and haven't got around to it): Optics (TIRs) Comparison Beamshots | BudgetLightForum.com.

These are the ones with the holders though.

-Garry


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

Thank you. Good chance I'll be happy no matter what, though trying the different optics will be fun.

I like the 60 deg and 10 or 15 deg from the beam shots. Good job. Here then is what I am considering. The only price consideration is the Gloworm optics, but if they are that much better, it's still pretty cheap. If these are not going to fit or are poor quality, please let me know:

Expensive, $7.50, but worth it, right? I don't know the degree of spot though: Gloworm X2 Spot Optic for V2 - V3.0 ? Action-LED-Lights

15 deg spot - alternate, or same from Fasttech, < $1: https://www.fasttech.com/products/1...15-degree-optical-lensoptic-for-cree-xm-l-led

20 x 60 deg from LEDDNA - 20mm Elliptical Spot Lens Optic 20°x60° for CREE XHP50, XML2, XM-L LED. _I don't quite understand 20x60 though. 60 wide, side to side, and 20 deg deep?
_
Maybe the 15 and 45 to try, LEDDNA, only a $1 ea: 
15, 45, 60 degrees Lens for CREE XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA

Did I miss any that would be good to try? I am thinking that the elipitical will have less chance of blinding oncoming riders or cars, as will the narrow spot, by pointing slightly down.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

User andychrist likes the 10x45. The 10 is the vertical angle spread and 45 is the width side to side (unless you turn it the other way  ). 

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Actually I found the 10°*45° a little too short and narrow, prefer the 20°*60° optics as my Low Beam on the bars (modded an MJ-880 clone), in conjunction with any other spot lamp for distance (either my Yinding, unmodded 880 or BT40S; haven't got a BT21 yet.) But the trails I ride are mostly pretty wide; can see how the 10°*45° optic could be useful on technical single track where one would want a bit more concentrated field of light out front. Guess I should take some beam shots before I go back down to the city.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Im actually going to try a 20x60 tonight for giggles, about to be a buddy (guy who started all this for the trailset a few minutes from home) for his first off road night ride. Loaning him my bt40 cuz all he has is a niterider 750.


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

I just ordered a BT21 tonight. I have to stop reading these threads. Thanks for all the helpful info you guys post up. I am a tinkerer like you guys so I may dig into the light after I use it a little to see what I can get out of it.


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

Ebroughton said:


> I just ordered a BT21 tonight. I have to stop reading these threads. Thanks for all the helpful info you guys post up. I am a tinkerer like you guys so I may dig into the light after I use it a little to see what I can get out of it.


Ya, mine was ordered this afternoon. Let's see who get's theirs first.

Addendum: Ordered a bar extender to get the light up over the shift cables, and spot to wide lenses.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ebroughton said:


> I just ordered a BT21 tonight. I have to stop reading these threads. Thanks for all the helpful info you guys post up. I am a tinkerer like you guys so I may dig into the light after I use it a little to see what I can get out of it.


Oh it'll push more but ull run into heat issues. Turbo at 2.8A is about a good balance for the case. Ive modded about every light I have except all ive done to this is change optics and done. Other than wishing "high" (really medium) was push more like 1.6-1.8A I wouldn't change a thing myself. Im hoping in the future they do like the bt40 and give optics options with the kit, but use the same optic as stock without the frost, just focus the light as the spot only.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Oh it'll push more but ull run into heat issues. Turbo at 2.8A is about a good balance for the case. Ive modded about every light I have except all ive done to this is change optics and done. Other than wishing "high" (really medium) was push more like 1.6-1.8A I wouldn't change a thing myself. Im hoping in the future they do like the bt40 and give optics options with the kit, but use the same optic as stock without the frost, just focus the light as the spot only.


I had the BT21 in front of a fan today testing a gopro mount option with temps leveling off around 124°. With all the cooling fins on the back of the light I couldn't resist picking up the fan and holding about 3' from the back instead of the front, temp dropped to 108°. We just need to figure a way to redirect some air over those back fins and that should allow you to "Hot Rod" the light a bit.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Holy crap that's a big difference lol. I do know the 14mm (new version yinding mount from vanc) doesn't work well with this light. Very little case contact. I have a v1 with 10mm contact that did better. The new on machines to fit in there well helps even more.

Now the forced air flow over the fins....STOP GIVING ME IDEAS lol. Little sheet aluminum, drill and tap holes into the outer most fin on each side to mount= air scoop . Well I have remote switch mod on mine so a little easier hehe. But dual scoops would be easy with careful drilling and taping holes in the case above the driver.

How effective they'd be I dunno, but some double stick tape to test the idea before drilling holes, that I might just have to do.


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

RoadTire said:


> Ya, mine was ordered this afternoon. Let's see who get's theirs first.


An internet race it is!


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> Oh it'll push more but ull run into heat issues. Turbo at 2.8A is about a good balance for the case. Ive modded about every light I have except all ive done to this is change optics and done. Other than wishing "high" (really medium) was push more like 1.6-1.8A I wouldn't change a thing myself. Im hoping in the future they do like the bt40 and give optics options with the kit, but use the same optic as stock without the frost, just focus the light as the spot only.


I have read your write ups so I know the lights and drivers are pretty good. I would play with the optics to customize the beams.


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

How about a small, unobtrusive scoop just under the backside. Might smooth out the turbulent area right behind the case?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Works for some but not for us with the finned (heat sink) gopro mounts. Have to go on top.

So after last nights ride, my narrow trails defeat elliptical wide angle optics. Too much under growth. We did the loop the "hard way" and damn im feeling it today.

Also found my natural night vision works pretty well cause I was riding around on med (low on yinding) for a bit cause forgot to turn them up after stopping for a break.

My buddy's description on the club facebook page was " light set that looks like a locomotive coming down the trail" lmao. Granted I was on high on both at that point. He was also amazed I clred the black section at night a couple nights ago, then he saw my lights at full power out in the open. Night time becomes day time


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

Where can I get spare O-Ring's to mount the light? Hate to have one break or loose it. Rubber bands would be so....getto.

EDIT: NM - FASTTECH. Unless you know of better ones...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They are all the same except nightfighter uses their own style. Breaking them... Going to take a while. Loosing them will happen alot lol. Those of us with the sickness have a small box or bag with probably 50 bands cause they give you 3 per light head. Hell if you in the states pm me your address ill send you a few cause I use gopro adapters except I keep a few bands just for loaning out lights. And I do literally have somewhere around 35-40 bands hehe.


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

LOL. Thanks for the offer. Very kind of you. I just ordered a couple before you posted. If those don't fit I'll be sure to ping you.


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

I just got an email from Gearbest saying they couldn't ship my light by DHL and it would take 10-25 days to get it. Is that normal?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No email them because my light kits and everything else always ship DHL without a problem.


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

Thanks Tigris. I sent them a message asking why they can't ship it DHL. Waiting on their response.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I know for sure there is no reason that can't. If it becomes more of an issue I will contact them about it. If you paid for express then it should be DHL or the other express service.

Also contacted my rep because I know DHL will ship lithium batteries as long as they are protected cells. I checked with DHL myself.


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

Thanks Tigris. I sent them another email and have gotten the no-reply email back saying they would contact me in 24 hours. 
Here is the email they sent me. It is written in broken English. I am not sure where they got the unsatisfactory experience thing from because I never contacted them. I just want my light to play with.


Dear customer,

Thank you very much for ordering from us.
I am most concerned to learn that you felt that you had a less than satisfactory experience for your order which you placed recently. I therefore wish to say that we are extremely sorry about the situation. Please accept my sincere apologies on behalf of our company. 
We regret to inform you that we cannot shipped your order out by DHL as their shipping policy. We can ship the order to you by another available delivery method, regular post mail, which will take 10-25 business days to destination. Could you please inform me if this is acceptable? We will refund you extra shipping fee after shipment.
If there is no respond from you in 3 business days, we will ignore this message and ship the order by regular post .

Awaiting to your kind feedback. 

Best regards 
Georgia


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Did you order anything besides the BT21 kit?


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

I also ordered a tail light with the BT21

Super Bright 1W 2 LEDs Bicycle Rear Safety Taillight Bike Rainproof Tail Light Cycling Lamp-5.23 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh nope, I have that tail light too lol. No reason to effect DHL. I just got my bt70 kit for review and keeppower 18650s built on LG cells on that too and all came DHL no problem. They do have another express way they can ship, ill get the name when I get home.


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

Rub it in some more!  it may be because DHL doesn't deliver to my area too much. My brother had trouble with DHL not delivering things in a timely manner because "they don't come to our area very often". We will see what they have to say tomorrow. For now I will live vicariously through you by looking at your BT21 and BT70 posts again. Thanks for your help.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok found the shipping, tell them to use international bridge. Its only slightly slower than DHL and uses USPS to deliver to your door.


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

Here is their reply.... I asked about international bridge. We will see what they say.

Dear customer,

Thank you for your order.

Sorry we can not ship your order out by EMS or DHL, because during this period, Electronic product can not shipped out by EMS or DHL.

How about we shipped your order out by regular mail?

If regular mail, it will take about 25 business days to reach to you after sent the parcel out.

Could you please tell us which one you are willing to choose? Waiting for your soon reply.

Best regards
Georgia


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

I sent 2 messages yesterday and have not heard back from them. It has been 6 days since I ordered the light and it still hasn't shipped.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya that happens when trying to work the the language barrier and the shipping issue. Happens with about every place over there. Annoying as hell lol.


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## stutru (Mar 10, 2010)

I purchased the BT21 and the BT70 a couple of days ago. It's shipping via UPS 4-7 day expected delivery from Hong Kong to the East Coast. Expedited delivery was a free option for me. I thought it was going to be via DHL as indicated on other areas of their site.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

UPS is a new one. Never heard of them using UPS. I do know that expedited shipping can sometimes go way down in price, and it does vary on your location in the states.


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

I am on the east coast in PA. UPS goes by my house everyday. This is starting to get annoying. I will send them another message.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well remember their way ahead of us its already the weekend for them so you wont hear from them until Sunday night our time


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

True. I'm am camping now so I won't be in contact with them for the weekend anyway. Thanks again Tigris.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Heres the thread on my "modded" bt21. Whole start of that project was because of my own stupidity lol. Poor BT21, but it lives AGAIN!!! LOL

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/custom-nitefighter-bt21-976949.html#post12052291


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok so learned something about bt21 driver I have seen before. Usually you can boost a driver by adding a current sense resistor in parallel with existing. But bt21 driver monitors voltage far better than yinding, bt40s, mj880 clone etc. 



That said xp-l emitters wont work for that reason, their high Vf causes driver to push less current even on turbo. 2.1A vs 2.8A on xm-l2 emitters.



Was wondering why turbo wouldn't do much, ran current tests and though I broke the driver.



Yinding seems a little more able to do it (and doesn't require machining the case to fit 16mm noctigons) but still wont push full power. My custom on on the other hand, 3A (with up to 3.2A ) runs them beautifully. Not much more light unless in spot optics cause the dome is so much smaller and harder to get centered.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> ... Usually you can boost a driver by adding a current sense resistor* in series* with existing.


*In PARALLEL !!!*


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Sorry ya wrong word lol. Fixed it. But yes I installed it correctly lol.


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

Well, I received the BT-21 a few days ago, compared it to my flashlight and am very impressed. The tint is perfect. Charged it up and it ran 3 1/2 hours before the 50% light came on. Still haven't had a chance for a night ride. Once I install a 15 deg optic, the throw should be as good also.

Speaking of optics from Fasstech - June 24 USPS show acceptance in China, June 29 Chicago, today it's in MO - whaaat? LOL. 

(Didn't really want to say anything before 'cause Ebroughton was having trouble....)


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

The


RoadTire said:


> Well, I received the BT-21 a few days ago, compared it to my flashlight and am very impressed. The tint is perfect. Charged it up and it ran 3 1/2 hours before the 50% light came on. Still haven't had a chance for a night ride. Once I install a 15 deg optic, the throw should be as good also.
> 
> Speaking of optics from Fasstech - June 24 USPS show acceptance in China, June 29 Chicago, today it's in MO - whaaat? LOL.
> 
> (Didn't really want to say anything before 'cause Ebroughton was having trouble....)


How kind of you to wait to tell us yours came to spare me the grief.  I received an email Tuesday saying mine shipped. We will see if it comes as fast as yours. I am just glad I finally had some coherent contact with them and it was finally shipped. A big THANK YOU to Tigris for stepping in to lend me a hand in sorting it out.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Heres a little "test video" Have a camera im reviewing for gearbest now and went out to try and use it to do bt70 test. Poor instructions messed that up a bit but I did get a good couple segments when I was checking out how bad undergrowth on these new trails are (were going out this weekend, rain has made life torture the last few weeks). my modified bt21 on the bars and unmodded bt21 with just optics change on the lid. Camera definately locks in on the bright a** bar light so you dont get to see how well the bt21 on the lid works too.

Work in progress, but I plan to do a test and compare all 3 nitefighter lights once either my normal test trail set opens up or we get this one cleaned back up. But bt21 does amazing on these new trails were building and the new camera does a so much better job at showing the brightness of the light. Jsut the brightness of these lights on basically "medium spot" and "tight spot" optics narrows up the cameras field of vision.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

So which camera are you using?

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Reviewing the soocoo c10. Really its not bad. Makes my ion air pro look like crap lol. Guess that's not hard.

I am going to start researching which camera is best at night under the $200 price tag in hopes of finding one that will truly show everything im seeing.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Reviewing the soocoo c10. Really its not bad. Makes my ion air pro look like crap lol. Guess that's not hard.
> 
> *I am going to start researching which camera is best at night under the $200 price tag in hopes of finding one that will truly show everything im seeing.*


That could end up being an expensive quest. IMO though I think your going to find that no consumer based video recorder is going to be able to accurately depict what you are experiencing while riding at night. The cameras are just not as sensitive to the changes in light intensity as the human eye is. Now if you can find a helmet lamp with a wide yet intense spot pattern offering 4000 lumen you might get a more dynamic video. Then again a lamp like that will likely be big and there won't be much room for a helmet cam.

If I decided to start messing with video cameras I'm thinking I might use something like a Gopro ( or GP clone ) and use the Gopro chest mounting system. I've viewed a couple of those videos before and some of those aren't half bad. Still I'm not sure any camera is going to accurately depict the distance throw you see while riding.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I have a chest mount but right now I've just been mounting on the bars. I am going to see what happens when I widen the bar beam pattern up a bit. The test videos so far were on dual 30/45 (waiting on fasttech 30deg to see if different) so your seeing the hot spot. May put a 60 in one side or switch to stock optics see if camera likes it better.

Basically, get the best I can afford for my camera for reviewing lights. I really wish these budget ones would be more like my phone camera. I change setting to be more sensitive to light when I do the pavement ride videos.


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

My light came today! I just came in from a quick test ride with it. What a nice light!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I tried stock optics (yet to really ride on them) and I actually really like them on the bars. Only real test I did with them before was on the helmet which worked pretty well but I REALLY LIKE them for the bars. "Medium spot frosted" may be my new favorite bar beam pattern lol.



I did get some night video paved video (try the optics set ups and compare bt21 to the fenix bc30r, another really nice, but pricey light)



Ebroughton: Hope you like it as much as I do, I flipping love my bt21s. If they came in blue they would be my perfect light for everything,lol.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

GoPro adapters for the Nitefighter BT21S are now available. Adds about 3 square inches of additional heatsink area to help keep the lighthead cool. Pricing is $18 ea. As with all my adapters, the user will need to source their own screw if their stock one is too short.

Props to Tigris99 for being the guinea pig on this version and getting me the dimensions to build with!!

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...ional-heatsinking-958312-16.html#post12065593


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok use report:

This has been my helmet lamp this entire time. On glowworm optic one leddna15 deg.

Loving this light. Its brighter (thus more throw) than a yinding and does handle the warm weather, tight and winding trails with plenty of grueling climbing alot better without worrying about switching modes. Though I only use turbo on the longer and faster descents, never had a temp issue including my worst warm weather ride yet. For my is was physically hell, but my lights could have cared less. 85F with humidity just into the 90% range in the woods with no wind.....OMFG lol. Still all smiles though.

Knowing I have a light that's bright, reliable, and handles the heat well has me riding mostly at night now. I enjoy not having worry about switching modes all the time so the light head doesn't get so hot it steps down. Just go into low or medium when I stop otherwise just leave it on high and go.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

One of the things I noticed tonight while testing the BT21 on the bars is that the two most useable modes are the "high" and boost. The low is super low, not really good for anything while mountain biking other than a slow climb up a smooth fire road. The next mode "medium" is okay but not great. The high mode works very well as does boost. This means if I'm using the BT21 for bars I'm mostly using "high' except for climbs...and boost for fast trails or downhills.

Oddly the BT40S is very useful on both low and medium. I find myself using medium a lot but sometimes when I have it set on low I forget about it because it works so good! High is slightly better but then the lamp gets a little hotter. Medium ( BT40S ) works great without any heat issues.

Still, both of the Nitefighters are going to run cooler with a Vanc Gopro adapter...( shameless plug )


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> Still, both of the Nitefighters are going to run cooler with a Vanc Gopro adapter...( shameless plug )


I'll take it!

Update on the BT21 adapters...

First couple users reported some fit problems. Seems that there may be somewhat loose tolerances on mount surface depth and hole location on the light body. Not much, just .25mm on depth and maybe as much as .5mm on hole location, but enough to affect the fit. I've adjusted the dimensions and tolerances on the adapters to compensate.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*warning thin mounts*

*Word of warning I just got another light head and I noticed the handlebar mount was loose didn't take much pressure to get it to separate from the light head looks like there isn't very much material holding that screw on mixed with the gap between the two is a recipe to loosing your light,, Easy fix would be to add a filler washer between the 2 to fill in that gap
*.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I never paid attention to that gap, but I always use gopro adapters.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*BT21; one spot optic retro refit.*

Just as I got home from work tonight I decided to see if I could switch out one of the medium flood optics on my BT21 with a spot optic. I was about to open up one of my Gloworm X2's for an optic when I suddenly remembered I had an old two optic DX ( Ultrafire 2up ) that I took apart some years ago. Luckily I found the parts and both of those optics are very much spot optics. I took one of those and carefully got it to fit with the BT21. I did however have to remove the O-ring to get it to fit more flush.

The result looks pretty good. I now see a real hot spot in the beam pattern. Heck, it might be more hot spot than I need! I just tried it out in the parking lot and the throw is great! It does however cut down on the wider flood but at the higher mode levels I think it will be an even trade off. I think it's going to make the low mode more useable too. Can't wait to see how this looks on the trail....which of course is the real test.

Fingers crossed hoping I don't get rained out tomorrow.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Just as I got home from work tonight I decided to see if I could switch out one of the medium flood optics on my BT21 with a spot optic. I was about to open up one of my Gloworm X2's for an optic when I suddenly remembered I had an old two optic DX ( Ultrafire 2up ) that I took apart some years ago. Luckily I found the parts and both of those optics are very much spot optics. I took one of those and carefully got it to fit with the BT21. I did however have to remove the O-ring to get it to fit more flush.
> 
> The result looks pretty good. I now see a real hot spot in the beam pattern. Heck, it might be more hot spot than I need! I just tried it out in the parking lot and the throw is great! It does however cut down on the wider flood but at the higher mode levels I think it will be an even trade off. I think it's going to make the low mode more useable too. Can't wait to see how this looks on the trail....which of course is the real test.
> 
> Fingers crossed hoping I don't get rained out tomorrow.


*Cat what do you think of these compared to the glowworm spot. I have the glowworms installed right now and its a huge improvement to the stock but I want that Hotspot!!!!*
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020966


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Those are the same 15deg optics we've all been referring to from fasttech and leddna. I use one of them and one gloworm optic in mine for helmet lamp, I have 2 of them in my yinding. Not a tight flashlight spot but a good decent sized spot.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Rakuman said:


> *Cat what do you think of these compared to the glowworm spot. I have the glowworms installed right now and its a huge improvement to the stock but I want that Hotspot!!!!*
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020966


You would have to ask tigris99 about that. He's the guy with all the optics. I'm not going to pull a GW optic out of a lamp unless I have to. At some point I may order some more to try out but for right now I'll try these out to see how I like it.

The BT21 stock optics give a nice, smooth overall beam pattern. The one spot optic I'm using kind of ruins the overall evenness of the beam pattern but as to how it compares to the Gloworms I can't say at the moment. Wall beam shots look similar but the real test will be how it looks outside and on trails.

I do have a spare Gloworm flood optic. It would be interesting to see how that works with the spot....Anyway, Rakuman...If you're running two Gloworm spot optics you should have a decent spot. I'm just trying to run one to get a little better throw from the bars. I should know more about it once I get home tonight.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Continued from last post:* Well, I got a chance to try out the BT21 with one spot optic on a ride tonight. I chose to ride my regular trail but unfortunately I broke one of my own rules; "Always check the rainfall tallies before choosing where to ride". *sigh*....I was expecting dry trails because I was working in the area all week but apparently a little shower snuck in while I was sleeping earlier in the day. That meant the trails were wet...oh I hate when that happens, especially when I had other options I knew were dry. Well...it could of been worse....okay, enough of me pissing and moaning...

I did get a couple downhills where I could really tell the difference in throw. I almost felt like I was riding with the Gloworm X2. Even the low mode was working better even though it's still not that bright, it had better reach ( on trail and on road ). Modes M-H-Boost are way better. The BT21 did get hot the few times I ran it on boost. Air temps were around 78°F and 99% humidity. Of course with wet trails, high moisture content in the air...not the ideal conditions for testing throw.

I think the most dramatic difference I saw was when I rode the short distance ( on the road ) back to my car. ( Roads were completely dry )...On a really dark segment I put the lamp on boost and aimed it a little higher for maximum throw. Oh my goodness! I think it was reaching around 300 ft. and still lighting up the entire road. The funny thing was that when I went to lower the output when some cars began to approach I discovered that the lamp was only on HIGH! :cornut: SWEEEEET!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I told you just an optics change goes a long way 

Now if I could find more optics options to try out. I did order some of the other optics from leddna just to see how they do.


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

Just back from my first ride with the 15 deg and stock optic setup. My son rode with the flashlight we normally use. We rode the usual rail-trail and roads.

I realize the BT-21 and flashlight are completely different animals, so maybe comparing them isn't fair. The BT-21 is an excellent light, and the price makes it a real bargain.

I'm really spoiled by the throw of the flashlights, and was really hoping the BT-21 would have the same throw on high (not turbo) but it falls short. On the road we positioned so I would light up a power pole comfortably with the BT-21, but not the next pole, which the flashlight easily lit up. For solo road / rail trail riding I'm going to try 2-15 deg optics. (I really like to see way down the road when alone)

On the other hand, the BT-21 should excel on mtb trails, works great when not riding solo, has a really smooth wide beam pattern. The NW tint is perfect. (Actually matches my flashlight)

Run time of the flashlight is 2 hrs med (roughly same throw as the BT-21 on high), and 1 hr on high, so on my night commutes have to change out the battery. Review of the flashlight here: Review: XinTD C8 SC-82/V4 (3C neutral white) | BudgetLightForum.com

The BT-21 meets my expectations for 2x - 4x the runtime of the flashlight, smooth beam pattern, ease of swapping optics, and tint. I'm looking forward mounting on my helmet for a night mtb ride.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

RoadTire said:


> Just back from my first ride with the 15 deg and stock optic setup. My son rode with the flashlight we normally use. We rode the usual rail-trail and roads.
> 
> I realize the BT-21 and flashlight are completely different animals, so maybe comparing them isn't fair. The BT-21 is an excellent light, and the price makes it a real bargain.
> 
> ...


Get a good spot optic for the BT21 and you should be fine for either trail or road. Flashlights ( torches ) have their uses. If you really like that kind of beam pattern there are multitudes of cheap single emitter Chinese lamps that provide long throw. Magicshine 808 makes a decent bar or helmet lamp. Still, throw is not everything. A wide beam is much more comfortable to use on the bars and a good bar lamp will give you both width and throw.

Usually when I ride the road I will use a two emitter lamp on the bars ( Gloworm X2, SSX2, BT21 with spot optic ). Then I put an Ultrafire 501-B drop-in torch on the helmet for those times when I might need to see farther ahead ( usually a downhill ) or around a turn. For the most part though I rarely use the helmet torch while on the road. Rarely can I outrun the useable throw of a good two emitter lamp on the road. If I do it's only on a high speed downhill and I'm on afterburner ( 35mph+ )


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

The optics I have are the better ones from LEDDNA and Fasttech. Maybe optics of that size just cannot compare to a much larger reflector?

I cannot comment on mtb light requirements: have to refer to the experts on mtbr forums will totally rock the singletracks as a helmet light, even if it's the only light. (I don't go fast or technical at all). I might put my flashlight on the helmet for singletracks as suggested since I ride more upright than road riding.

(Everthing below is just self-justification, and probably not worth the read. Nothing technical to see here folks, just move on.) 

:yawn: 

Commuting, a tight long throw bar light and a more diffused helmet light would be a perfect combo. My flashlight (since I already have it) is very adequate, and combining it with the BT-21 on the helmet will really rock. I do like the very low mode of the BT- 21 and the really good high mode.

For commuting very early morning (like 1 - 3 A.M.) lots of throw gives me comfort I can see someone hanging on the trail long before I get to them. Last year I had a kid and his girlfriend, all in black passed out in the middle of the asphalt trail. All that was visible from a distance was the whites of his tennis shoes. My eyes don't discern low contrast or black - on - black very well. In this context very long narrow throw works well.

As a helmet light, I am diffused using a 80 lumen headlamp. What would work best is 300 lumen diffused helmet lamp. That'l be more than adequate to light up anything or anybody close and to the side. Riding under the freeways is a good spot for cranky drunks, though I have been fortunate not to have that trouble.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh ya there is NO WAY that exists yet for optics to match spot and throw of your decent sized flash lights. Closest I have found is dedomed emitters behind the 15deg spot optics (I have other optics on the way to try). They come pretty dang close but spot is still larger and not quite as far comparable a flashlight on a good reflector/lens.



Most of use actually do the opposite, we use diffused on the bars, spot on the helmet. Ive yet to need more than dual spot optics on the helmet, usually now I split it up, tight spot optic and a medium or my favorite now is a 15deg then a glowworm optic. I class my need as seeing clearly at range of where I can respond and stop from my higher speeds (take that as u will, im a Clyde and ride tight single track so not THAT fast). Bt21 diffuse on bars and my other bt21 or yinding on the helmet with the spot optics and I can see more than I need. Bt21 is the first dual emitter budget light I own that has needed nothing more than an optics change out of the box (for helmet use). Yinding doesn't need it but I turned mine up a bit cause I can lol.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

RoadTire said:


> The optics I have are the better ones from LEDDNA and Fasttech. Maybe optics of that size just cannot compare to a much larger reflector?
> 
> I cannot comment on mtb light requirements: have to refer to the experts on mtbr forums will totally rock the singletracks as a helmet light, even if it's the only light. (I don't go fast or technical at all). I might put my flashlight on the helmet for singletracks as suggested since I ride more upright than road riding.
> 
> ...


Hey, this is MTBR...not CPF, everything you said is relevant. If you offer a different point of view no need to apologize.

Based on what you said I just thought I'd offer some suggestions. Like tigris99 said most of the MTB folk use lamps with wider beam pattern on the bars. This works well whether you MTB or ride road. With the right optic mix you get a wider beam pattern plus decent throw.

Since you also want something to spy out the potential 2-legged hazards I highly suggest using something ( like your torch ) on the helmet. Those C8 throwers are nice but a bit clunky when mounting on a helmet. Luckily, no need to sacrifice throw if you want throw. You might want to check out the offerings from Xeccon. The Xeccon S-12 is like the ultimate single emitter-dedicated bike lamp- thrower. I used to use one of these and they are top notch.

So...I no longer use one...why? For years I was a dedicated "helmet throw lover". While still true I was intrigued that many people were gravitating towards multi-emitter helmet lamps that offered a wider beam pattern but less throw. Eventually I ended up trying a couple of the Solarstorm ( mini-reflectors ) lamps on the helmet just to get an idea of what to expect. It turned out that I very much liked using the wider beam pattern on the helmet as long as there was a decent amount of throw ( 150 ft or more ). Keep in mind the Xeccon S-12 can throw twice that but has a much more narrow beam pattern. While the narrow pattern works great at distance it suffers from extreme glare feedback when aimed more closer to the bike.

Finally I came to the realization that a wider beam on the helmet ( but not too wide ) was more useful ( in my case ) for mountain biking. When making sharp turns there is more even transition of light dispersal than when using a narrow thrower. With the wider lamp you get to see more of the surrounding trail features not to mention you don't get the glare or "dancing ball effect" that you get when using a narrow thrower.

All this said, your needs are different than ours. If you need a thrower equal to your C8, get a good dedicated bike lamp thrower ( like the S-12 ) and use it the way you like.


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> Hey, this is MTBR...not CPF, everything you said is relevant. If you offer a different point of view no need to apologize. ...
> 
> You might want to check out the offerings from Xeccon. The Xeccon S-12 is like the ultimate single emitter-dedicated bike lamp- thrower. I used to use one of these and they are top notch. .....
> All this said, your needs are different than ours. If you need a thrower equal to your C8, get a good dedicated bike lamp thrower ( like the S-12 ) and use it the way you like.


I do appreciate what you did there. 

The Xeccon with a Cree XM-L2 T6 appears to be almost exactly the same as my flashlight, so ya, that would be a great narrow thrower, w/o excessive power consumption from the batteries. i didn't know we could get that much light for the $. I'll put it on my list.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

RoadTire said:


> Last year I had a kid and his girlfriend, all in black passed out in the middle of the asphalt trail. All that was visible from a distance was the whites of his tennis shoes.


You sure they were passed out? Might have been "playing dead" while caught in the act. 

I'm sure many have interesting stories about what they've run into while riding at night. 
-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> You sure they were passed out? Might have been "playing dead" while caught in the act.
> 
> I'm sure many have interesting stories about what they've run into while riding at night.
> -Garry


 I thought maybe they were just looking for a place to sleep...

I ran into someone doing the hokey-pokey once. Thankfully not on the trail I was on but on the other side of a river on a trail I was riding ( that was on a river ). This was just a short ways from a little biker bar. I thought of giving a cat call but instead I just turned away and minded my own business.


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> I thought maybe they were just looking for a place to sleep...
> ... I thought of giving a cat call but instead I just turned away and minded my own business.


Wise decision. :thumbsup:

In my case, you should have heard the kid cussing me out when he sat up directly into my overly bright flashlight on high ... ugh, that must have smarted.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Quick side note; While on my test ride of the XT40 ( helmet ) tonight I did try out the BT21 on the bars with the one spot optic upgrade. I have to say I really appreciate the additional throw. The low mode still pretty much useless other than for slow debris free trails, fire road climbs or road use but the other 3 modes rock on. :rockon:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well after a while now, my other lights have been shelved and this one just stay in the case with my modded 880 clone for night riding. panasonics on the fenix case and this light on the lid is plenty for my riding. never need more than an hour and on high I get 2 easily, only use turbo for maybe 10 mins out of a ride. Definitely my favorite 2 x light by far. Was torn between it and my yinding and though Im attached to my blue yinding, cant tell the light head color at night anyway, so performance prevailed in the end.

And this light has been through HELL so far. Taken a few hits from branches, been on my helmet when I have knocked it off the back of my truck and so on. Besides a couple scratches you'd never know.

Also noticed it runs cooler than I expected. Riding means more changes in air flow direction than my testing, and even on turbo on the really warm nights, it doesnt get HOT unless I stop. And 99% of the time I hit the button to drop to low as soon as I stop for a drink/breather anyway.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Definitely my favorite 2 x light by far.


While I can't say the BT21 is my favorite, if it had my Gloworm X2V3.1's UI and remote it would be. Definitely not complaining though! I've seen complaints about the low mode being too dim to use (I like it for trailside repairs) but the mode button works so well that quickly passing it by on the way to another mode is never a problem. Along with making more power (lux) than my Gloworm X2 what I'm really please with is it's beam pattern (with any optic I've tried). I planned on using my Gloworm X2 to compare against the BT21 with different optics sense they appear to perform about equal but after the first ride with both lights (GW spot optics in both) I realized this wasn't going to work. I don't know if it's the emitter spacing or the fact that The BT21 puts the optic right at the front of the bezel instead of recessed like the GW but the BT21 had at least half again as much beam width as the GW with similar throw (nice). On to plan "B" which is where things got a little weird.

Plan "B" was getting another BT21 which gave an equal light for emitter comparison and another NW light to run with my original BT21, win win. Plugged the new BT21 into a charged battery and got a little flash like my Yinding but uncharacteristic for my original BT21. Got out the light-meter, lower 3 modes slightly down form the originals readings but turbo registered a full 25% down (arg!). Decided to let the light cool down (ME TOO) and try again. Initially a little better but the strange thing is the longer the light runs the higher the readings go (temp too, no fan). It took about 4 minutes till the readings started to go down but by that time the light was really hot. Usually light-meter readings start to decrease (not increase) a few seconds after you turn the light on, I've never seen a light do this before! Don't know what to think, hope Nitefighter hasn't changed anything internally. I hope the light just needs to settle in a little so I'm going to do a couple of rides with it and retest. I welcome any thoughts on this.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I dont own a glowworm (couldnt justify the cost) so dont know the UI.



As for the lumen drop, dont have a lux meter yet but im going to play with mine a little see if there is anything similar. I would pull the front plates, the emitter board is only held in by the thermal paste so tilt it forward and see if the insides appear the same. if it doesnt get better, LMK, ill PM you the nitefighter rep email for the US about warranty.

Ok checked mine:

Flicker on plug in is there (the second one, first bt21 is one I fried out of stupidity, so it has the custom driver). But letting the 2 sit side by side on a white wall the stock one does seem to "ramp up" a bit to equal where my custom one sits. Current readings change a bit too as thing warm up and settle out. Something with the driver seems like it has to "warm up" then of course once things heat up (as with all emitters) the output will start to fall off a little.

Gotta be something with driver design, like a car, gotta warm up before running optimally.

Once I get a lux meter and ghetto sphere set up, ill run the 2 side by side and see what I come up with since custom one I know exact driver out put, led bin, etc. 

But I wouldn't worry about it too much, my stock one has had the crap beat out of it already and still works awesome.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tig, until then you might use some Lux meter app. on your phone. See if there is something that can be used: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=lux meter&c=apps


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I have an app for my phone actually, thnx for reminding me . Sometime in the next few days I will dig out my portable Weber grill that hasn't been used in years and turn it into a sphere, just have to get some white paint and come up with a way to attach light heads and my phone to it.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

ledoman said:


> Tig, until then you might use some Lux meter app. on your phone. See if there is something that can be used: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=lux meter&c=apps


Oh wow. Awesome! Need to install one!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

As I understand you would need apropriate phone, but maybe some can work over the embeded camera. Didn't do more research. Anyone who would try it, please report it back.

Tig, think (read) about paint, what kind should be used (matt, glare, semi glare)!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> if it doesnt get better, LMK, ill PM you the nitefighter rep email for the US about warranty..


I think I'm going to go this route and see what the rep. thinks. I took the new light out for a ride and my impressions matched the initial light-meter readings I got. Lower 3 modes seemed OK but turbo made almost no noticeable difference which is not like my other BT21 at all. Did more lux tests when I got home and the weird lux gain with heat disappeared but unfortunately the light has settled in to where all modes are 10-35% weaker than my original BT21. At this point I'm thinking I just got a "dud". Thanks for the help!
Mole


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

Busted the handlebar mount - pulled the screw right through when adjusting the light angle. There was only about .062 (that's 62 _thousandths_ of plastic holding the screw.

So I need a stronger mount. I do like the O-Ring type mount, and would like to find a better one. Or mod the broken one using a thin washer and and flat head screw. Maybe I can relieve the plastic and get the washer to deform so the screw sits flush.

Might have to go with the finned Go-Pro. Just would rather not have to clamp anything on my bars when I don't have to.

Suggestions?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm DX sells an aluminum o-ring mount. You can even buy thru DXSOUL and get it quicker. 
Aluminum Alloy Bike Headlamp Mount Holder w/ Silicone Rings - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

Not sure how compatible it is with the BT21.

-Garry


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

RoadTire said:


> ......Suggestions?


There have been a few folks that have gone with my GoPro adapter, maybe one of them will speak up and send their o-ring mount to you. Not very comforting to know how thin the original mount is though.


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

Thank you for the detailed review tigris, I just picked up a BT21 kit for about 60 bucks, seems like a damn good deal given the quality and everything that comes with it.

Being a bit of a night riding noob, having last owned a night rider light 10 years ago I thought I would ask for some informed opinions.

My plan is to run a night rider lumina 750 on my helmet because it seems dependable and has an internal battery (light, uncomplicated and not bulky) and to run the BT 21 on my bars. Is this a decent, reliable set up for running in the woods provided I'm not doing World Cup downhill courses?


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

RoadTire said:


> Busted the handlebar mount - pulled the screw right through when adjusting the light angle. There was only about .062 (that's 62 _thousandths_ of plastic holding the screw.
> 
> So I need a stronger mount. I do like the O-Ring type mount, and would like to find a better one. Or mod the broken one using a thin washer and and flat head screw. Maybe I can relieve the plastic and get the washer to deform so the screw sits flush.
> 
> ...


*Try one of these! I just replaced mine with a magicshine mount * 2pcs Mount Base for MagicShine LED Bike Light Free Shipping | eBay


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

Rakuman said:


> *Try one of these! I just replaced mine with a magicshine mount * 2pcs Mount Base for MagicShine LED Bike Light Free Shipping | eBay


If anyone sees an aluminum one, let me know, otherwise: Done. Thank you.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Www.dx.com has aluminum ones


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> DealeXtreme - Cool Gadgets at the Right Price - DX Free Shipping Worldwide has aluminum ones


Dang, not finding aluminum with O-ring tabs ....

OBTW: getto fix done with flathead screw and thin washer that deformed so sit's flush on the slanted surface. I don't _think_ I crossthreaded it ... but hard to tell because the screw was just THAT much short and I had to put just a little pressure to start it.

I once heard that cross threading just give you more options .... :madman:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Aluminum Alloy Bike Headlamp Mount Holder w/ Silicone Rings - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

BTW everyone, I just figured out more optics options:

I decided to try another set of the LEDDNA optics that come with the white holders. Not sure what they sent me last time (or was a bad batch???) but what i received this time WORKS.

10 and 25 deg versions for XML XM-L2 work great. Have to remove the white holder carefully (just 3 little tabs to bend back) then install optics and go. The 10 deg DOES tighten up the spot a bit, even over the 15 deg other versions we've been using. Tired them in my yinding too, they fit just fine and work VERY well. Still not as tight of a spot as some may be looking for (and without the white holders may not get maximum efficiency from the optic, but we never do on these lights anyway) but it does make a nice difference for helmet use.

10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA

Next up is to get some of the Ledil optics in and try those out.

PS the 25 deg version is interesting, it actually has a fair amount of spill so you get the light around the spot you need too for bar use. But not too much that the spot itself is weak.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I have those 10 deg. LEDDNA optics in my helmet light. They are about as good an optic as I've ever used in the 20mm size. I suspect that you are losing some beam quality by not using the white holder. It spaces the optic slightly higher on the emitter. Not using the holder moves the emitter out of the focal point of the optic a bit


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

well i put spacers (for reflectors just cut the ring off) behind them. The efficiency thing was just a guess since there was no surface catching and returning any of the light leaking out. I do really like them though.

Have you tried the Ledil ones yet, they have 8deg optics that are about the same size, cant say anything for sure but plan on ordering some to test out.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I've been using those LED-DNA optics including white holders for a long time in a MJ-880 clones. The best combination for me was 10+25deg. Some throw and some spill so best suitable for the bar light.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya i noticed with holders they fit pretty well in the 880 clones, but not worth removing my 2x triple xp-g2 set up to test them out that way. I did test them out with the holders on and honestly i think I like them better without. Just seems the spot is far more defined as the spill isnt condensed tighter. I do have to say though I really like the optic now that i have a pair that arent all messed up internally.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Don't know what you've got before. I can recall you were dissapointed at the time. Can you compare the two so we might know how to disctinct between bad and good? I'm glad you got the good ones. You might take further step and correct your negative opinions back in the threads. I know, hard to find  but could be worth for the people reading them.

Of course it's not worth to test them on your 880 clone in your situation since you have even better design. I just wanted to point out those optics are being succesfuly used for quite some time now.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah you've had me all confused Tigris! I'm actually on LEDDNA's site about to order the "good" 15 degree ones and now I read you're retracting your earlier statement about the 10 degree ones in holders! (Those ones in holders are the ones in my TIR testing/beamshots thread.)

Guess I'll order the 15 degree ones and some more 10's, they're cheap enough!

You think (2) 10 degree's in a helmet light (Yinding or BT21) are too spotty or good? I don't want too much of a tunnel vision effect.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No not too spotty, not light a flashlight.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> .....Have you tried the Ledil ones yet, they have 8deg optics that are about the same size, cant say anything for sure but plan on ordering some to test out.


I've used other Ledil optics and reflectors in some of my lights. In general, I've found Ledil to be better than most other optic/reflector makers. In the 20mm size, their Regina reflector is awesome. Probably too deep to be able to retrofit into the Chinese lights though.

Every optic or reflector manufacturer seems to have some good and some not so good products.


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Aluminum Alloy Bike Headlamp Mount Holder w/ Silicone Rings - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


Thanks! Ordered one. Dunno why I couldn't find it myself.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Honestly, I can't ever find it for crap u always find, copy, and paste garry's link


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*I happened to have a bunch of those 10degree Led dna in my box so I threw some in my helmet light and ran a stock ++ glowworm lense in my bar light, Dang those leddnas have some punch this video was on high I think i could get away with medium in the scrub because that spot is so intense... :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:*


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*heres in some trees *


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

ya im really liking the 10 deg optics now that I have good ones. Need to order more so my yinding has a pair too.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*So is this what you did to get these to fit or did you grind off the backside ? *


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No I took them out of the white holders so they fit correctly, at least for now. I may machine the face plate to hold them with the holders, may not. But works fine without them.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> No I took them out of the white holders so they fit correctly, at least for now. I may machine the face plate to hold them with the holders, may not. But works fine without them.


*
They seem to be fitting correctly all I did is grind the front 2mm off the holder, its setting correctly against the led and a nice tight fit at the faceplate correct me if Im wrong what would be so different? all that's missing is the 2mm that holds the emitter in the holder.. *


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No that probably is fine, I haven't really looked at it yet, if the front plate fits good then sweet, easy mod to use them. Better than what I figured I would gave to do.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*Ya its a nice snug fit just used a belt sander *


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh I can do that with a razor in a few seconds each, didn't think about cutting the back.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Rakuman, had to use shears them clean up with blade but mod worked great.

That said took vacation (1/2 a shift tonight and all tomorrow), just got back from a ride with the new optics. OMG so much better beam. 15deg is good but these are much better.

Had a blast tonight (nice dry trails!).


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tig, we still don't know what was with your first 10deg LED-DNA optics which you didn't like. How they are different to the ones you have now?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well these ones work for one.

The other one (only bought one to try the first time) had a major flaw it seems inside the optic. Almost like a large internal crack (possibly trapped air during mold process) which just made a mess of the beam pattern and output looked like half of what even my kd2 and yinding stock optics had for output. I had assumed they were manufactured that way so toss it as "junk". This time I had read the reviews about them, thought it was odd I hated mine so much, so I ordered 2 more. And now about to order a few spares.

Now if they would ACTUALLY have optics for the XP-L. their XP series optic they say fits, IT DOES NOT, about ripped the dome off one of my emitters and since they are not designed for it, the output and beam pattern was horrible. The XM-L2 version is much better but almost impossible to get it centered.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

OK. Now I understand. Back then you didn't explain it so the people reading it could just conclude they are all bad. I was wondering why because mine were fine. But don't have others that you do to compare so I wasn't commenting it. 

About XP-L lenses can you give the link which ones doesn't fit? And is there special XM-L2 optics or is it same for all 5x5mm footprint leds? 
Probably there is problem with XP-L dome which is bigger than XP-G ones. On the other hand XP-L HI should still fit then.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its the XP optics in the white holders on LEDDNA site.

XP-L I know have larger dome, but LEDDNA says they fit and they dont. The holders are all wrong for their XP series opticsas well. Cant used them without modifying the holders a lot unless on a 20mm pcb. I do know XP-L HI fit XP-G2 optics perfectly, was experimenting with it on the 880 mod and now the xp-l hi triple (only bought one for now because they are double the price of xp-g2) are paired with a carclo xp-g2 triple narrow spot optic and in my convoy s2+ flashlight now.

Ledil says they have optics for the XP-L, which I plan to order some soon to try. Not so worried about it for my BT21 though, as the 10Deg optics (and going to try Ledil 8 Deg soonish hopefully) did exactly what I wanted.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Tig,
So you ran (2) 10 degree LEDDNA optics in your BT21 and that is what you're saying is a great beam? (Just clarifying.) If so, this is what I'll plan to try in my Yinding. 
Sure would be great to see some comparison beamshots! If I had the time I would do so, but there's no way I will have the time for it.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Tbh too much work right now, dont feel like fighting to capture the difference in beams for a 5 deg difference in optics/less spill.

But yes that's what im running, 2 10deg. Be advised the holders WILL NOT work at all in the yinding so you have to try and get them spaced correctly


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok garry, I did one better, got video from tonight's ride! Using those optics on bt21 for lid and my 880 clone with 2x triples.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Tbh too much work right now, dont feel like fighting to capture the difference in beams for a 5 deg difference in optics/less spill.
> 
> But yes that's what im running, 2 10deg. Be advised the holders WILL NOT work at all in the yinding so you have to try and get them spaced correctly


If the LEDDNA optics are the best I might go ahead and order some of these myself. tig ( or anyone ) Can anyone compare the BT21 with spot/spot setup and compare it to the SSX3 ( neutral ) ? AH! stupid me, I forgot I have a another spot optic I'm not using. When I get a chance ( not anytime soon ) I'll try to compare the two. It would be interesting if the BT21 turned out to out-throw the SSX3 and still provide a relatively wide beam pattern. If it does it will certainly make the BT21 "The Helmet Lamp of choice" if size and weight are primary issues.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Ok garry, I did one better, got video from tonight's ride! Using those optics on bt21 for lid and my 880 clone with 2x triples.


Great! I guess it's not posted yet as I didn't see it on your YouTube channel.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No just got it off camera onto computer so far. Was pretty wiped out last night. Went out Friday night to local trail (climbing kicks my ass there) then spent half friday on my commuter taking my boys riding and to the park. Then lasts nights ride lol. I'll get it on youtube tonight probably


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

ok sorry been busy then sick (oldest brought it home, youngest caught it, then it hit me saturday evening) so here is one of the segments to give you an idea. Remember bar light is the 880 clone modded so its more like the bt70 on output but better mix of beam pattern:






Segments are unlisted so this is all you get till I get the video assembled


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Some news for everyone looking at these, promo code is active again AND NOW these are $25.99 for head only!

Code is bt21tg: http://www.gearbest.com/led-flashlights/pp_181149.html


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

So what is the current status on these things? I see this has turned mainly into a mod-fest thread but just wondering if the current crop on GB is decent? I see they have a lighthead only option - a buddy of mine wants one and I just was curious what the current thinking was (won't be modding, just will use as-is with a higher-quality battery).


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm pretty satisfied with the battery mine came with. 3 - 4 hours on high if I remember correctly. The pack seems sealed well. Stock beams are smooth, and easy to change optics if you want to customize. (this from a guy that never mod'd a light before)

The only weak point is the supplied bar mount - the screw pulls through really easy. Buy a cheap alu or plastic replacement.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not really a mod fest, we've just been discussing optics options for different beam patterns. They are the same now as they were when thread started, nothing has changed as of yet.

Oh and the mount isn't a mod, just an aluminum gopro adapter that adds to heat dissipation for running in higher outside temps. Something alot of lights these days seem to need especially if u dont wear full finger gloves


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Here you go kids, full video, even left my wash out/laying it over literally on the last 10 feet of trail before exit to pavement (came into corner way too fast and tried to correct only to end up in the dirt)

Its processing atm, so be a couple hours before its watchable. even left the "natural sounds".


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Nice video. Certainly no detectable tunnel effect. Everything well illuminated.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Some news for everyone looking at these, promo code is active again AND NOW these are $25.99 for head only!
> 
> Code is bt21tg: Nitefighter BT21 1800LM 2 LEDs Cree XM L2 Water - resistant Mountain Bike Lights-31.29 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com


Thanks! Finally ordered one!

-Garry


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Is there a promo code for the kit?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> Nice video. Certainly no detectable tunnel effect. Everything well illuminated.


Thnx cat, that's my mix beam on the clone. Medium frosted spot then the wide frosted spot (wide has almost no distinguishable spot at all).

Works MUCH better both for the eyes and the camera. But still gives me some throw so the trail is lit more than 15ft in front of me. Also was nice that it doesn't overwhelm the helmet light (too much light so eyes can't adjust to see what helmet light is pointed at).

And the tighter overall beam of the 10deg optics. spot size is hard to see a difference but spot intensity is much better, less loss in the spill.


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Is there a promo code for the kit?


Eager to find out too!
Are there any battery pack recommendations if I went the lamp only route? I'm going to be using gopro adapters and none of the o-ring or included package mounts anyways.

I like the idea of the waterproof pack that screws shut and lets me use existing loose 18650 cells, but those types all have threaded power connectors that might vary in size from the bt21...

I have a thunder ac6 charger and a nitecore 4-cell charger, but a dedicated 2amp charger does sound nice...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The water proof cases for loose cells need a few modification to be safely useable.

The light head only comes with the same mounting parts, the kit price is for the battery pack, charger, etc.

No coupons for for the kits, that's as low as the price gets on those.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*This has quickly become my go to light combo:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: I have tried every imaginable combo of lenses now and here is what I came up with. 
*








*For the helmet this is hands down the best thrower nice tight laser beam spot *

10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA









*And for the bars I thought I would like more floody but this 15 degree is more than enough spill with maximum throw .
*
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020966


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The second one is the same as the 15deg leddna and fasttech carries. They were "the spot optic" next to glowworm optics. now we found the 10deg ones work great.

I was liking the 30/45 deg (depends on where you order from they appear the same though) for the bars.

Finding now I really like more flood (instead of just the spill with spot) with a little throw on the bars, put all my throw into the helmet light.

Btw, am I seeing that right, you have 4 of them now??? Thought I was bad having 2 with all my other lights.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> The second one is the same as the 15deg leddna and fasttech carries. They were "the spot optic" next to glowworm optics. now we found the 10deg ones work great.
> 
> I was liking the 30/45 deg (depends on where you order from they appear the same though) for the bars.
> 
> ...


* Yup My wife has been night riding with me for 25+ years now:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: + ive 3 boys that night ride also I liked these so much that got her a pair. Can never have enough lights, Coming off a Gemini Olympia /Duo combo these cheapies just Blow them away with the right optics these just are the best bang for your money:thumbsup:*

*I like these 15 degrees much more than the Glowworms these have more throw in IMO*


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Rakuman said:


> * Yup My wife has been night riding with me for 25+ years now:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: + ive 3 boys that night ride also I liked these so much that got her a pair. Can never have enough lights, Coming off a Gemini Olympia /Duo combo these cheapies just Blow them away with the right optics these just are the best bang for your money:thumbsup:*
> 
> I've run Gemini's for the last few years and am now a happy multi-BT21 owner too. Have you had any over-heating issues with your BT21s? I've had better luck with them than I did with my Gemini lights and found they work good up to 100° on Turbo with the stock mounts and with the addition of the "Vancbiker finned GoPro mount" have handled 105° ride temps with no step down episodes. Interested to hear how these lights work for someone else who rides in a warm climate.
> 
> ...


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Rakuman said:
> 
> 
> > * Yup My wife has been night riding with me for 25+ years now:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: + ive 3 boys that night ride also I liked these so much that got her a pair. Can never have enough lights, Coming off a Gemini Olympia /Duo combo these cheapies just Blow them away with the right optics these just are the best bang for your money:thumbsup:*
> ...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Actually I do agree with rakuman on the THROW. GW optics are seemingly more efficient and spill is better controlled, but I do get better throw with the 15 deg optics. GW optic has a larger spot and visually does better but when I looked at a distance vs the other the spot was more defined and existent a range. GW spot spread out more. Wasn't a massive difference, the more controlled beam pattern of the GW optic more than makes up for it imo but I don't need huge site range.

But im sticking with my 10deg optics on the lid from now on, just too "perfect" for what I need.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Actually I do agree with rakuman on the THROW. GW optics are seemingly more efficient and spill is better controlled, but I do get better throw with the 15 deg optics. GW optic has a larger spot and visually does better but when I looked at a distance vs the other the spot was more defined and existent a range. GW spot spread out more. Wasn't a massive difference, the more controlled beam pattern of the GW optic more than makes up for it imo but I don't need huge site range.
> 
> But im sticking with my 10deg optics on the lid from now on, just too "perfect" for what I need.


Hey Tig,
Less surprised at your evaluation than I was at Raku's. I'll be the first to admit my eyes aren't the best so I do extra testing to try to compensate for my some what compromised vision. There's a diversion canal near my home that's several hundred feet across that I use to test distance beam width and intensity. I just shine the lights on the opposite canal bank which is further away than any usable throw you'd get on flat ground and use the beam intensity as a factor for evaluating throw. That combined with ride testing the two optics seemed about the same throw wise to me. Then there's the light meter, 10% extra OTF lux from a bounce test (favors tighter beam patterns) usually indicates more throw. That said and all the advantages you noted (and I agree with) to the Gloworms beam pattern Raku's "I like the 15° much better then the Glowworm" comment surprised me enough to order some of the KD 15° optics to see if there is some difference compared to my leddna ones. I'll test these and the 10° ones you guys like so much. Raku's beam shots should be interesting.
Mole


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## benplaut (Oct 25, 2009)

50mm said:


> Eager to find out too!
> *Are there any battery pack recommendations if I went the lamp only route? *I'm going to be using gopro adapters and none of the o-ring or included package mounts anyways.
> 
> I like the idea of the waterproof pack that screws shut and lets me use existing loose 18650 cells, but those types all have threaded power connectors that might vary in size from the bt21...
> ...


Interested in that as well.

From the last time I did some research, I recall folks being happy with an ebay seller, "hunk_lee"
like this, for instance: Panasonic LiIon Battery Pack 7 4V 5800mAh for MagicShine LED Bike Light NCR 2S2P | eBay


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

I've got two BT21's and a pair of 10° optics on the way, I'm super pumped. I run a magicshine clone right now.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

What is the optic that comes stock?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The stock ones are frosted and I believe it was said they appear to be 15 degrees (Tigris, chime in?).

-Garry


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Ok. The Yinding has 15s stock but clear.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Buddy just ordered this set..looking forward to seeing it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## seandm (Mar 18, 2004)

Anyone know if there is a compatible handlebar or helmet mount on amazon for this light? I crashed yesterday and totally lost the clip. my bell was rung so hard I didn't even bother to look for the clip on the ground.

I would hate to have to wait 2 weeks for another clip to arrive from Gearbest.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not sure what "clip" your referring to im assuming you talking the plastic mount underneath. action-led sells replacement mounts that will work fine. There isn't anything on amazon that im aware of for any bike lights.


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## seandm (Mar 18, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Not sure what "clip" your referring to im assuming you talking the plastic mount underneath. action-led sells replacement mounts that will work fine. There isn't anything on amazon that im aware of for any bike lights.


thanks, that did the trick.


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## RoadTire (Jan 6, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Aluminum Alloy Bike Headlamp Mount Holder w/ Silicone Rings - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


Received the mount and bolted it on last night. Thanks!


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## serious1 (Jan 11, 2013)

I have a quick couple of questions before I purchase this light. I plan on getting the BT21 kit first as a helmet light. I then plan on getting just a yinding head unit for the bars at a later date. My questions are: 

Can I swap the batteries between the yinding and BT21? 

Does the kit include a decent helmet mount or should I look into something aftermarket? 

I plan on getting 2 more batteries for night races(total of 3) and was wondering which ones I should get(trying to keep it under $30 a battery). 

Is there a better setup than bt21 helmet/ Yinding bars? 

Does Gearbest have a rear blinky that's any good or should I just grab a cygolight hotshot?

Thanks for any responses.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The helmet mount works fine

All these lights use the same battery connector so no issues there.

Dont buy cheap battery packs for racing, not going to cut it. Go to mtbrevolution.com for battery packs if your racing. Or action -led-lights.com. Packs wont cost much more but wasting money on cheap Chinese battery packs is a waste. Bt21 comes with a good battery, yinding is a cheap Chinese pack so that's a hit or miss.

Bt21 is far brighter but yinding has a tighter beam stock for helmet (which us why we all change optics to suit what we want).

Bt40s works good and as a kit is just as good as bt21 (including battery pack) and is a great bar light


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## serious1 (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks a million for the replies Tigris. I appreciate all the work you do testing these lights and answering all the hard questions. I originally decided to get the BT21 because I heard that was the kit with the best batteries so I guess I just need to shell out more. Is it possible to buy the batteries that come in the kit separately? Would a BT21 be better as a bar with the Yinding up top or should I just go with the BT40s bar/ bt21 top and call it a day? I really don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole that is modding lights. Thanks


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

serious1 said:


> Thanks a million for the replies Tigris. I appreciate all the work you do testing these lights and answering all the hard questions. I originally decided to get the BT21 because I heard that was the kit with the best batteries so I guess I just need to shell out more. Is it possible to buy the batteries that come in the kit separately? Would a BT21 be better as a bar with the Yinding up top or should I just go with the BT40s bar/ bt21 top and call it a day? I really don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole that is modding lights. Thanks


Why buy the Yinding at all? A BT21 light-head costs less, produces a lot more lux/lumens, throws farther and has a wider/brighter beam and runs cooler too. I own a Yinding and a BT21 and have nothing bad to say about the Yinding but for what you are going to use the lights for (racing) I'd suggest buying an extra BT21 kit (or bt40 if you want a wider beam on the bars) and picking up an extra battery from Mtbrevolution (Xeccoin).
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

There isn't any modding needed with any of the lights. Battery packs from xeccon work just as stock batteries do. All nitefighter lights come with brand name cells in the packs but sadly as of right now packs can't be had separately. But price would be pretty close to that of xeccon packs, came connectors, xeccon packs with fit the night fighter battery pouches etc.

Only "mod" would be buying some 10deg optics from leddna or fasttech (just confirmed that fasttech sells the same optics as leddna) to use for the bt21 on the helmet only if you feel you want a narrower spot type beam pattern.

My one bt21 is stock except I added the remote switch and changed optics. No other mods to do, no point unless you want a gopro mount which isn't a mod, just 1 screw to take stock off and put gopro adapter on. But bone stock there is no need to change a single thing. Button is big and on top, nitefighter has done their lights and kits right.


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## WhitedragonBC (Jun 10, 2015)

How hard was it to do that remote switch? I saw your post about how to get the driver out and it sounds like a pain.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

A lot harder than other lights. Getting the driver out, the location of the switch on the driver, the space on the back to run the wire, all not as simple to work with as my others.


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## Van G (Apr 7, 2006)

Tigris, I'm a first time light buyer. Want something that will work dependably for rec riding in Ontario (3 seasons). From what I've read in this thread is this a complete order:
Helmet - BT-21 kit w/ 2 x 10 degree Leddna optics
Bar - BT-21 kit and aluminum bar mount. 

What is the warranty and who handles it for CAD owner?


Van G


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Warranty that nitefighter states is 2 yrs and can contact them directly if you have issues.


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## WhitedragonBC (Jun 10, 2015)

Does this start on low or turbo when you turn it on? Gearbest lists it as both.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

It starts on low, never had a light that starts on turbo/high (except mode memory on some that is lost once battery is unplugged)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Just received my BT21. Ordered Aug 12th, delivered today Aug 25th, not bad! First impressions are good. 

-Garry


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Is the consensus that running the BT21 off a 2 cell pack won't work that well? I don't need long run times on high. For the helmet, I can live with an hour or even less on high. ( typically ride at dusk, then with just one light for climbing and finally head lamp on high for descent only )

Saw a few posts in this vein, wanted to gather more opinion. ( For what it's worth, I have protected 2900mah orbtronic cells - I believe they are Panasonic NCRs )


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I was planning to run it off 2 cells (in the Fenix case). I plan to use cells with less voltage drop during discharge. Turbo may not give full output for the full discharge, but I don't intend on using Turbo much. 

-Garry


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

garrybunk said:


> Just received my BT21. Ordered Aug 12th, delivered today Aug 25th, not bad! First impressions are good.
> 
> -Garry


Me too! Quick delivery, looks like a good light, needs a better mount and optics to be even better. Coming up!


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## serious1 (Jan 11, 2013)

Just pulled the trigger on a bt21. Are the shipping times accurate to the US for the free 5-7 day option? I tried googling for a real world example of run times but the only thing I could find was the nitefighter website which was 2 hours on turbo and 4 hours on high. Is that accurate?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes and yes (all info is in the first bit of the thread)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

serious1 said:


> Just pulled the trigger on a bt21. Are the shipping times accurate to the US for the free 5-7 day option?


GearBest generally takes a few days to get your order out. I plan on 3 weeks until I expect to see it. I think this is my first GB order I got in under 2.5 weeks.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, that's for free shipping or "not in stock" (which hopefully they are staying on top of posting that). If you pay for the express shipping and items are in stock iv never had it take more than 6 days. Usually an order on the weekend I have by the end of the following week


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Quick check of the light and it seems very nice! Low isn't nearly as low as I expected (that's a good thing). Beam is very nice in stock form. Change in brightness from high to turbo isn't much. Medium looks like it'll get the most use. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Quick check of the light and it seems very nice! Low isn't nearly as low as I expected (that's a good thing). Beam is very nice in stock form. *Change in brightness from high to*_ *turbo isn't much*_*.* Medium looks like it'll get the most use.
> 
> -Garry


That's not a good sign. Change from high to turbo should be dramatic. The 2nd BT21 I got exhibited the same characteristic and produces considerably less power than my original. I ordered a replacement light-head the same day as you so I should receive my new one soon and will test it with my light meter as soon as I receive it. My first one produces slightly more lux than my latest version Gloworm X2, the 2nd one slightly less than my Yinding. That's a BIG difference and your post has me worried that maybe Nitefighter has reduced the quality on this light. I certainly hope this not the case!
Mole


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Garry, measure the current from the battery pack. And which battery pack do you use? Is it possible this battery doesn't have enough juice to support turbo mode? 
Don't have BT21 so can't say how it should look, but based on Tigris review it should pull 2.8A on turbo.

Tig, can you repeat or tell where you have published the currents for each mode? Can't find it except for turbo.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I didnt "post it" its in the review video instead:

low-0.1A
med-0.5A
high-1.3A
turbo-2.8A


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Would be good to put this info in the OP. You can't know you can get this in the video and it's more convinient if it is in description. BTW, in the video turbo is 2.6A not 2.8A, so what was different against setup used on the picture, was it battery battery pack?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok, I will have to do a current test on mine. I was only using (2) 2,450mAh Green Sony cells (@ 4.16v ea) in the old Pannova case and so you're right, it may not have been enough to push out 2.8A (yes, I should have known better). I will say that Turbo looked bright as hell! Looks like way more light than I would ever really need! 

Oh, and I'm seeing "mode memory" when I turn the light off and back on (I only let it rest about 30 seconds after turning off, so perhaps memory goes away after being off longer. By "memory mode" I mean that if it's on "high" when I turn it off, it turns back on in "high" and not "low". Memory mode might disappear when the battery is unplugged - I didn't check.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Garry, Pannovo is no go with higher currents. There is to much resistance in its elements and wire is to thin. Over the thumb I would say up to 2A the looses are aceptable, afterwards it depends.....


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok, perhaps I'll try my modded Fenix 2 cell case. I'll measure using the Pannova as well to see how high of an amp draw I had. 

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok I tested with the same two cells (down a bit to 4.14v each).


Low - 0.118A
Med - 0.49A
High - 1.30A
Turbo (Pannova Case) - 2.315A
Turbo (Fenix Case w/ 20ga DX Power Lead) - 2.70A

Difference in Turbo from one case to the other was fairly negligable. Just enough noticeable jump from High to Turbo, but not a huge boost. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Ok I tested with the same two cells (down a bit to 4.14v each).
> 
> Low - 0.118A
> Med - 0.49A
> ...


Happy to hear your light functions fine. Good for me too, it will ease my Chinese light paranoia while waiting for my light to arrive.
Mole


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Garry can you check if adding two cells in Pannovo case would change anything? What I would want to see if the springs in the case have noticeable influence in the resistance. No need to use 4 totaly equal cells for this test as long as they have about the same voltage. The load will be shared and divided by 2.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, the optics make it not so easy to see the jump from high to turbo. You see it more in the spot, throw gets increased substantially. More i mess with light the more I realize how not important the visual mode spacing is when you have anything to do with a spot optic involved. Close in you dont see much of a difference because the spot is already really bright, so you get the % added to the spill which is wide spread (barely noticeable) but when you focus down range youll notice the throw increase.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

My buddy's came today. Wow....very impressed for a ~$50 light set. Case is amazing for this price and the whole thing seems v. high quality. Nice bar light!


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## jeph (Apr 3, 2008)

I got one of the BT21 lights. I bought it without a battery as I was going to use one I have.

Is the polarity of the power standard with + in the middle? I posted that question to the gearbest site and got this:

Hi Jeffrey, please kindly see the introduction on this post to know further more about this item at this link: 
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/nitefighter-bt21-2x-xm-l2-nw-light-965949.html 
Thank your for your inquiry. Please feel free to ask if you have further questions.

So, I thought I would ask here.
Anyone know which lead is positive and negative?

Thanks,
Jeff


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They are all the same with those connectors unless your pack is NOT wired correctly. We all use a selection of packs with our lights. Whether they are magicashine, Xeccon, cheap Chinese crap packs, they are all wired the same. 

That's why we never discuss it/test it because all are the same. Now when you get to other style connectors you can run into possible issues but these standard 5.4 dc connectors are kind of the "normal standard" for bike lights.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

All the bike lights I know of, use positive polarity on central contact.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

+ inside
- outside


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## Mantelimies (Sep 3, 2015)

Hi,

has anyone ordered the lamp to Europe? I would like to have the euro-charger with the lamp, but I am not exactly sure whether that is possible.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Of course it should be. Ask Gearbest first, before you make an order.


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## cruzone (Sep 3, 2015)

i have ordered the bt21 to europe last week and i´m going to use an uk adapter for the charger


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Used my buddy's NiteFigther BT21 this morning on my road ride. I leave at 6 am and need a light now that is getting light later. My usual light for this purpose is my Yinding. A few comments:

Very nice setup. Case it comes in is really nice. I liked the battery pouch and the way the straps work. The cables are too long for my taste. I place the battery on the top tube near the front so don't need much cable. He got the neutral white and I like that tint...its similar to my Yinding but better...I would get these next time I got lights (but I don't mind the whiter/bluer cool white lights I have). The rubber O-rings are nice as they have a tab you can really grab. I do not care for the button on top (even though its easier to push) b/c the indicator light glows and you see it when riding more than my Yinding/Duo where its on the back...a bit of a distraction but no big deal. The beam pattern was smooth and easy to ride with. I used it on high (not turbo) and this is enough bar light to reach speeds in the mid-40 mph range on a DH that is part of my ride (road bike). The light is a quite a bit larger than the Yinding. I think this is a great little light for what you guys are paying. No need for me to get one but this is what I am recommending to folks I ride with now. Seems like it would work well on the helmet too. The strobe is a useful pattern vs. the worthless slow flash on my Yinding. The battery connection is not tight...it doesn't produce a tight "snap" like my other lights. I don't think its that much different overall than my Yinding in terms of output and beam pattern that I could tell.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*More bt21 optic numbers*

I finally got all the optics I ordered. The KD ones took almost 3 weeks. To be fair though my Leddna order took longer than normal and I have a light-head coming from Gearbest that's on day 24 so maybe the Chinese mail is just slow right now. I haven't field tested any of the new optics (KD 15°, Leddna culminator/10°) yet so I'm just posting the #'s. I'm also including a new set of test #'s with the light meter sensor placed in the center of the beam (hot spot) and had to use a different setting on the light meter so the #'s are reduced by a factor of 100. All optics were tested 3 separate times and I used the highest #'s. Also mote that I physically could not tell any difference between the KD and Leddna 15° optics but had sanded the "feet" off the Leddna ones, so that my be the reason that their lux #'s are different (some where I still have a Leddna with feet so when I find it I'll amend this post).

Turbo mode:....................Bounce test/Center beam
(lux readings)

Gloworm XS spot.........................210/76
Gloworm XS/X2v3.1 Spot Optic ? Action-LED-Lights

Leddna 10°.................................196/70.4
10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA

KD 15°.......................................194/69.3
http://www.kaidomain.com/Search/SearchResult.S020966

Leddna 15°.................................188/58.5
15, 45, 60 degrees Lens for CREE XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA

Stock optic..................................180/45

Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks MRMOLE! Wow - stock optics really low in comparison! Perhaps it's in the frosting of the lenses.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Mole great test. Would you please add links to the products page on your list so there would be no doubt about which lenses you are talking about. Thanks. 
Pretty much I know, but want to be shure.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Thanks MRMOLE! Wow - stock optics really low in comparison! Perhaps it's in the frosting of the lenses.
> 
> -Garry


Just a reminder that these tests tend to favor narrower beams and that with the exception of the Gloworm spot/Stock optic IMO have a too narrow beam for bar use. I don't mind the stock optics at all but prefer a Gloworm spot/flood combo. I didn't test that setup but can certainly do that if your interested.

I also have a question for you. After reading Ti Geo's impression of the BT21's power output compared to his Yinding I'm back to thinking that maybe Nitefighter may have made some spec. changes that have downgraded the BT21.How does your BT21 in turbo mode compare to your Yinding in high? With my first BT21 I'D consider it a night and day difference in favor of the Nitefighter but the second (weaker) one has about the same max power as the Yinding. It's still a good deal but a 1450 lumen BT21 will always be better than a 1000 lumen one!
Mole


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

TiGeo said:


> .... I used it on high (not turbo) .....
> I don't think its that much different overall than my Yinding in terms of output and beam pattern that I could tell.


Mole, maybe this can explain it.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I don't know that I have enough good cells charged up to compare the two side-by-side. I'm also swamped with too many responsibilities and don't have much free time at all to do things like this. My entire summer has consisted of 3 bike rides: one with the family on the rail trail (posted about) and two very quick night rides (less than 20 minutes each). I joined a local bike club earlier this year and am not sure why I even did it as I don't have the opportunities to ride with them. I'm basically living vicariously through everyone's posts here! Maybe one day . . . 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> Mole, maybe this can explain it.


I noticed that too. The answer I want is that I just got a bad light-head but I'm a little concerned that might not be the case. I should have a new one arriving any day so I guess I'll find out. About the links, I'm from a generation prior to those who grew up with computers and there is still a few holes in my computer skills (that being one of them). Any recommendation where I can look for information on how to do that? Once I figure it out I'll post the links.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> I don't know that I have enough good cells charged up to compare the two side-by-side. I'm also swamped with too many responsibilities and don't have much free time at all to do things like this. My entire summer has consisted of 3 bike rides: one with the family on the rail trail (posted about) and two very quick night rides (less than 20 minutes each). I joined a local bike club earlier this year and am not sure why I even did it as I don't have the opportunities to ride with them. I'm basically living vicariously through everyone's posts here! Maybe one day . . .
> 
> -Garry


No problem, wish I could share some of my 10,000+ bicycle miles a year with you.
Mole


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Mole, edit your post with Advanced editor (Go Advanced). In another browser window/tab open the page with the particular lens and copy URL line (http://.... ) to the clipboard. Then go back to editor page and mark portion of text you want to attach the link. From the menu above select the globus with chain and paste the link to that dialog and you have done it.
Try it and report it back.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Im with ledoman, Ti did a high vs high comparison, turbo vs high is a whole of ball game .

Oh and my modded bt21 pulls 2.6A at the pack but driver output is 3A to the emitters at max level. And I know for sure the custom driver is 3A output (will push 3.5A if used in a flashlight because resistances are far lower, but even with 2" of 18awg wire, its 2.6-2.7A, 3A output) Its hard to tell if its brighter than stock bt21 with matching stock optics.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> I don't think its that much different overall than my Yinding in terms of output and beam pattern that I could tell.


Nice review! Could you please clarify. Were you comparing the Yinding on high to the BT21 on high or turbo? Thanks!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Im with ledoman, Ti did a high vs high comparison, turbo vs high is a whole of ball game .
> 
> Oh and my modded bt21 pulls 2.6A at the pack but driver output is 3A to the emitters at max level. And I know for sure the custom driver is 3A output (will push 3.5A if used in a flashlight because resistances are far lower, but even with 2" of 18awg wire, its 2.6-2.7A, 3A output) Its hard to tell if its brighter than stock bt21 with matching stock optics.


Well I went ahead and asked Ti to clarify. You guys are probably right and this way we'll know .
Mole


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> The strobe is a useful pattern vs. the worthless slow flash on my Yinding.


So what is the Strobe pattern on the BT21? Don't think I've seen it on video. I like the slow flash on the Yinding, as opposed to the seizure inducing style of the other Chinese cheapies such as KD's 880 clone.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

No, "off" is not part of the mode cycle, it's a press-n-hold to turn off. Strobe is not in the cycle. I actually can't remember the strobe. 

BTW- Good to see you post again Andy; it's been awhile. 

-Garry


----------



## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Strobe....no idea..I got to it by accident but I remember reading about it in the owners manual so that would be my advice. Sorry...I gave the light back to my buddy.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks Garry, yeah the Strobe is double click.

Been spending too much time riding, haven't kept up here.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Mole...Yinding on high to BT21 on high...not turbo. I need to get it back from my buddy and compare again..it was a quick comparo in my front yard...wasn't very scientific..so take my comment for what it's worth. My Yinding was the original one when it first came out..not the more recent versions.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> Mole...Yinding on high to BT21 on high...not turbo. I need to get it back from my buddy and compare again..it was a quick comparo in my front yard...wasn't very scientific..so take my comment for what it's worth. My Yinding was the original one when it first came out..not the more recent versions.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


I think was the only one confused here but high to high sounds right sense they have almost identical lux reading at those settings. High is only 50% power (about 60% OTF light on my meter) on the BT21 so I expect you'll be more impressed on your retest.
Mole


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

This thing looks awesome. I was all set from last year to buy a yinding. Does this light have a magicshine style plug? This thread is long. Also how does the neutral white compare to a nightrider pro 1800? I am want to switch my 1800 to my bars and retire my xt40 from bar duty. I want something light and small for helmut duty. Are there any better low profile mounts for a helmet than the one included in the full kit? Those all make the light sit up so high. Thanks in advance for any input.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Ok..found the info on their website...yes...1800 lumens is what they state for the turbo mode and 900 for high so it should be about the same as the Yinding on high like I said. I tried Turbo and it is noticeably brighter but I figured I didn't need it for road riding and it would kill the battery.


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## Andy.H (Sep 5, 2015)

Mantelimies said:


> Hi,
> 
> has anyone ordered the lamp to Europe? I would like to have the euro-charger with the lamp, but I am not exactly sure whether that is possible.


Just had mine delivered to the UK, took about a week and a half from ordering to delivery. They even popped a UK 3 pin adapter in as well so I could charge it lol. Not had a chance to test it at night yet, but impressed with the service from Gearbest.


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

What shipping times did you guys experience from Leddna optics? I ordered August 15 and still haven't received my 10 degree optics...

These lights are awesome. I went ahead and bought two bundle deals and tricked it all out with GoPro mounts from GearBest. New setup is sick!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Congrats on the new lights! They work great and with gopro mount set up no worries of the band mount breaking.

If you get a normal handlebar mount you can get it down closer to the bars and eliminate that 90deg adapter in the middle 



As for shipping time, 2-4 weeks depending on where you are, I have had one order get lost and took a PayPal dispute to get attention and get refunded, but I reordered (and added some more) and got them in 2.5 weeks.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

50mm;12182194 said:


> What shipping times did you guys experience from Leddna optics? I ordered August 15 and still haven't received my 10 degree optics...
> 
> These lights are awesome. I went ahead and bought two bundle deals and tricked it all out with GoPro mounts from GearBest. New setup is sick!
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> As for shipping time.


Sense the shipping times subject was brought up, my last GearBest order has been 26 days from the shipping notification. In your opinion how long should I wait to contact GB and if it's necessary to do so should I go through PayPal or their customer service? Thanks!
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well id say about now. Ive been meaning to talk to them about using "china post unregistered" because since they started doing that, more and more orders are not showing up from what ive been reading. That's always been a problem, they either dont make it to the states or disappear in customs (been a decade old problem for me).

Customer service is usually fine though, just language barrier gets annoying. Which "free" method did the use?


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> ......If you get a normal handlebar mount you can get it down closer to the bars and eliminate that 90deg adapter in the middle


Or maybe if all goes well......








Been thinking about this for quite a while now. Plan on cutting a prototype in the next week or so as time allows. Then to figure out how to deal with all the variations in bar size and bolt patterns. Probably going to need buyers to send me their stems for accurate measuring. May be too much to ask.


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

What are our options to buy nitefighter lights? Is it correct to assume the BT40s on amazon ships from a USA based warehouse? I buy a lot of stuff from China as I'm into RC but a month+ from Gearbest is unacceptable (baring the Chinese new year). A quick internet search gave me Lightinthebox offering the BT21 which I'm interested in. Any other places offering nitefighter with reliable shipping?


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

50mm said:


> What shipping times did you guys experience from Leddna optics? I ordered August 15 and still haven't received my 10 degree optics...
> 
> These lights are awesome. I went ahead and bought two bundle deals and tricked it all out with GoPro mounts from GearBest. New setup is sick!


get one of these GoPro - Bike Aluminum Handlebar Mount :: CellPhoneCases.com


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

WHALENARD said:


> What are our options to buy nitefighter lights? Is it correct to assume the BT40s on amazon ships from a USA based warehouse? I buy a lot of stuff from China as I'm into RC but a month+ from Gearbest is unacceptable (baring the Chinese new year). A quick internet search gave me Lightinthebox offering the BT21 which I'm interested in. Any other places offering nitefighter with reliable shipping?


Bt40s is the only option in the US, and it ships from amazon warehouse at least as of last check (was prime eligible) even the site you listed is in china and a month shipping time for free shipping is pretty normal because of liion batteries. They do have faster shipping options. Gearbest is the only place besides nitefighter directly that has all the options for nitefighter lights. Not sure of anywhere else that is known and reliable that sells the bt21 that free shipping is going to be any faster.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Well id say about now. Ive been meaning to talk to them about using "china post unregistered" because since they started doing that, more and more orders are not showing up from what ive been reading. That's always been a problem, they either dont make it to the states or disappear in customs (been a decade old problem for me).
> 
> Customer service is usually fine though, just language barrier gets annoying. Which "free" method did the use?


I went through my old emails and it just said "Flat rate shipping". I guess I'll give them a couple of more days because of the holiday and then contact customer service. Thanks!
Mole


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Vancbiker said:


> Or maybe if all goes well......
> View attachment 1013796
> 
> 
> Been thinking about this for quite a while now. Plan on cutting a prototype in the next week or so as time allows. Then to figure out how to deal with all the variations in bar size and bolt patterns. Probably going to need buyers to send me their stems for accurate measuring. May be too much to ask.


Wow that looks great. Looking forward to see the final version.


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## benplaut (Oct 25, 2009)

well, ****. :smallviolin:



works when I press slightly on the lens



contacting gearbest... it's probably an easy fix, but the bolt heads are in bad shape and I'd rather not.


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA

Alright so I tried these puppies out and no dice...can't get my LEDDNA 10 degree optics to fit whatsoever. White holder removed completely, O-rings taken out, as well as the plastic spacer circles below the optics.

It seems as though there's a shelf cut along the top of the stock optics that allows them to protrude through the front plate a bit whereas the LEDDNA ones don't have this.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

2 of us that I know of have the fitted just fine. They dont need to stick past the front plate, and the white holder has to be modded to be used. Get rid of the stock rings, the white holder, put them in the front plate and carefully put the front plate back on. This is actually one of the few lights that stock optics sit flush with the front of the plate, most others the optic is recessed on the front plate.



@vanc- that's an AWESOME idea, but there is so many different stems. I see why the need to send a stem. My stem would be some work, a raceface evolve stem, the front plate has tabs that overlap the main section to eliminate the gap between front and main body, for Carbon fiber handlebars. Which I run Sixc Cf handlebars 

I may have to send mine to you over the winter while my 29er is in the basement for winter overhaul.


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> 2 of us that I know of have the fitted just fine. They dont need to stick past the front plate, and the white holder has to be modded to be used. Get rid of the stock rings, the white holder, put them in the front plate and carefully put the front plate back on. This is actually one of the few lights that stock optics sit flush with the front of the plate, most others the optic is recessed on the front plate.











(Stock on left, Leddna 10 degree on right)









Gap with plastic LED spacers and front plate O-rings removed. If I begin to tighten the screws, I'll only reaaaally screw up the electronics by pushing them back. As soon as the threads begin to do their job there's immediate resistance as the new optics are already as far into the front plate as they'll go as shown here:

















Did I perhaps order the wrong style?

Light in question has "BT21B" and "Rev: 11" printed on the face of the board, fyi.

Edit:









Check it, the left optic is the new LEDDNA 10 degree without an O-ring installed, and the right is the stock optic WITH an O-ring installed. Obvious height difference of 1-2mm...maybe I got a different optic than what was sent to you for some reason...









Back to stock for now I suppose! Oh and if that wasn't frustrating enough, one of the LEDDNA optics has a sizable defect, though for .40 it's kind of whatever!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Rakuman said:


> *Ya its a nice snug fit just used a belt sander *
> 
> View attachment 1006632


50MM - click the above attachment.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Cut your outer casing to match "rakuman's picture/modification and it should fit fine.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> 2 of us that I know of have the fitted just fine. .
> .


"3"

Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh forgot you joined us . 

You dont "need" the holders. I put a set of those optics in my yinding and on a loose emitter to check, the optics wont drop down too low without the holder, sits on the edges of the emitter plate, only at the corners (like most anyway). The stock optics seem designed for a larger emitter than used in these lights which is why the ring. Having the holder is "best" but not needed. In my blue yinding using xp-l emitters (custom job I did) I just used XP flashlight reflector spacers to hold the optic up and centered, only because XP series emitters are much smaller than xm-l2.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> .
> Having the holder is "best" but not needed. .


"Agreed"! FYI, I didn't include it in my lux tests but the 10° had slightly better lux #'s in both the bounce and center-beam tests with the white outer casing installed. 
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That's doesn't surprise me at all, white plastic, reflecting the light that leaks last the tir optic back into the beam. I wouldn't be surprised if you did the same test with an unmodded holder and got ever so slightly higher numbers than the modded set up.

That reminds me, need to stop working so much overtime and get my "Weber integrated mini charcoal sphere" done. Its sitting next to my bench in the garage, made it from basement to there and that's it so far.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

"4"

-sanded the holders (thank you rakuman for the pics!)

-removed stock O-rings (one was slightly thicker with a larger diameter than the other!)

-aligned new LEDDNA 10 degree optics in the holders, fitted, tightened

-There may be a slightly increased gap on outer edges of casing as compared to stock optics

- makes an awesome helmet light now with great throw and spot

-off to ride now

Goatman


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## Mantelimies (Sep 3, 2015)

cruzone said:


> i have ordered the bt21 to europe last week and i´m going to use an uk adapter for the charger


Did you get the lamp? Which adapter did you choose?

I wrote to both gearbest and Nitefighter, let's see if one of them writes about the possibility of supplying with the EU charger also.


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## benplaut (Oct 25, 2009)

benplaut said:


> well, ****. :smallviolin:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My post got stuck in the moderation que for a while; anyone have a way to email gearbest other than their support ticket system (which they might not check all that often?)


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

FYI everyone, I did get the lens optics to finally fit! I don't really like how I had to remove the lens O-rings since that compromises the front water proof characteristics, so I at least greased up the main oval gasket for a good seal. I may dab on some liquid gasket "plumber-type" stuff around the lenses if it starts getting extra rainy here. Not sure what was up exactly, other than maybe I was being too scaredy to tighten the screws!

I was trying to fit it without the white holders being present at all, so everyone telling me I needed to trim them down was a moot point. I ended up trimming them though and that maybe helped the optics to somehow properly align...slightly better? I have no idea, but they fit and I haven't tried riding with them yet! I think I'll go and do that right now around the block. Sometimes you just have to step away and try again later.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

benplaut said:


> My post got stuck in the moderation que for a while; anyone have a way to email gearbest other than their support ticket system (which they might not check all that often?)


Support ticket system is just fine its what everyone uses. They check it and such every day (day time their time,opposite the states)


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

tigris99 said:


> Bt40s is the only option in the US, and it ships from amazon warehouse at least as of last check (was prime eligible) even the site you listed is in china and a month shipping time for free shipping is pretty normal because of liion batteries. They do have faster shipping options. Gearbest is the only place besides nitefighter directly that has all the options for nitefighter lights. Not sure of anywhere else that is known and reliable that sells the bt21 that free shipping is going to be any faster.


Ordered my BT 21 on Sept 8. It was delivered today Sept 14, 8 days later to Portland Oregon . Very nice piece of kit for $60....mighty pleased. Thanks for all your legwork on this one tigris99!


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

THANKS for this thread.

days are getting shorter and i am loving riding..cant wait to do it in the dark!! wife is on board...she is loving my energy level..(hench the logon name i chose..boomchakabowwow..reminds me of the 70's..even tho i was a baby) she wants me to buy armor and lights..hahah.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about armor, I would worry about how much she's helping to get you outta the house . My wife was loving it to, till the wow factor wore off and now its more she gets pissy if im gone riding too much lol. Which is part of why I got I to night riding, cause I work nights anyway. Her and the kids are asleep when I get home. So no complaints about me leaving to ride.


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> I wouldn't worry about armor, I would worry about how much she's helping to get you outta the house . My wife was loving it to, till the wow factor wore off and now its more she gets pissy if im gone riding too much lol. Which is part of why I got I to night riding, cause I work nights anyway. Her and the kids are asleep when I get home. So no complaints about me leaving to ride.


hahha..a fellow cynic!!

no my wife bought me a new helmet when i got my bike. i came home on day three with a banged up knee. i got her thru nursing school and put all my hobbies on pause. she has been great getting me caught up.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice. I had to crack the joke, my wife was the same way for the first couple seasons, then up until last spring she was a pain in my rear about riding so much. I had elbow surgery in march, being off work for 6 weeks, found tinkering them reviewing lights was fun. Then as I could ride, I would ride at night. Just getting back into full swing of riding again over the last few weeks, and got wife's support again. Guessing she misses the "benefits" of me riding versus being stuck in the house lol.


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## benplaut (Oct 25, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> Support ticket system is just fine its what everyone uses. They check it and such every day (day time their time,opposite the states)


OK, i'll give it another shot. Never got a response to my ticket a week ago.


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## Van G (Apr 7, 2006)

Just about to pull the trigger. What sort of working lifetime are people figuring for these units (BT21 and BT40)? 2000 hrs

What part of the design is likely to fail first? LED driver, internal wiring or soldering


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They've only been out for a few months so now way of knowing. But like anything can last 10yrs or 1, too many variables.



Same with what "will fail first", there isn't a correct answer for that, again too many variables.



Like anything, no way of knowing. That's why they have a warranty. Sorry that there isn't a direct answer to you question. But honestly any other answer is right or wrong, wont know till it fails. But odds are they will last fairly well if you take care of them.


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## Van G (Apr 7, 2006)

Fair enough. Have been comparing these against Fenix offerings (BT30 and TK16). Double the money and less output but lifetime warranty. I'll toss the coin tonight..

Tigiris, thanks for the continued info on this product.


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## Lucky Luciano (Aug 26, 2009)

Does the charger work at 220V too (needing just a mechanical plug adapter for EU) or is it 110V only?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Im yet to see a US charger like these that will run amy anything above 120v. Like all of these kinds of things you need an EU style charger.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> Im yet to see a US charger like these that will run amy anything above 120v. Like all of these kinds of things you need an EU style charger.


Here is the one I use - Smart Charger (1.2A) for 7.4V Li-ion/Polymer Rechargeable Battery Pack

****


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Just saw GearBests promotional email showing the BT21 (head only) is marked down to $22.19.

-Garry


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Oh that is nice Garry. What was the head only regular price?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I think I picked it up for $25.99, and I think it's "normally" around $31.99.

-Garry


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Hum I can pick that up for $15.4 then with my points...Resisting it at the moment because I do not have a battery pack


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Here's what I found after my ride last night. I was testing different optic combinations and was running 2 GW floods so I had my good BT21 (the bad one's turbo mode is only slightly brighter than high) on the bars and ran 2 GW spots in the weaker one helmet mounted. It was a fairly long ride (50 Miles on a fat bike) so I had plenty of time to evaluate and the flood setup worked great but to my surprise I was much more impressed with the normally weaker lights helmet performance. When I got home out came the light meter. Similar results to previous tests (bounce test), the weaker one mirrors the good one till switched to turbo. Different story when I did the new to me center beam test. The weaker one produced a meter reading 15% higher than any previous BT21 result. After that I had both lights sitting on the table with the front covers and optics out when I noticed the lack of emitter domes on the one light. It was late and I had no fully charges batteries so tonight I'll to do a better comparison and try to get out for a short ride with similar optics in both lights.

This raises a few questions! What happened to the emitter domes? Both lights came in complete sealed kits and while I can't positively say they weren't there when I received the light, I also can't imagine they just decentigrated (maybe this is possible?). I'm also not sure if this is why the light never performed as well generally as my first one. Would the de-doming cause it to work correctly in low-high and not in turbo? If there is still another problem with this light how good would the center beam #'s (supposed to indicate throw) be? 
Mole


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MRMOLE said:


> What happened to the emitter domes? Both lights came in complete sealed kits and while I can't positively say they weren't there when I received the light, I also can't imagine they just decentigrated (maybe this is possible?).


Probably they were damaged when you've been playing with different optics...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mole, you now have a dedomed helmet light. Think xp-l hi emitter, same thing. Overall lumen output is lower but for a test like yours will be superior intensity in the spot(better cd/lm rating) thus increased throw. This is why I have one yinding with dedomed xm-l2 u4 1c emitters. 1 series tint when dedomed mimics 3c, u4 bin brings output up to t6/low u2 bin output.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> Probably they were damaged when you've been playing with different optics...


That's possible but you'd think both light heads would have similar damage, especially since the one that still has its domes is my test mule (at lest 10x hours on that one). Also bounce test #'s haven't changed since new. I've never messed with the domes, are they that delicate?
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Mole, you now have a dedomed helmet light. Think xp-l hi emitter, same thing. Overall lumen output is lower but for a test like yours will be superior intensity in the spot(better cd/lm rating) thus increased throw. This is why I have one yinding with dedomed xm-l2 u4 1c emitters. 1 series tint when dedomed mimics 3c, u4 bin brings output up to t6/low u2 bin output.


I figured you'd be interested in this. Yes, the de-domed one has a slightly yellower/warmer tint. We'll see how the tests go tonight.
Any additional comments or input on this will be greatly appreciated since you've gone through the de-doming thing already.
Mole


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MRMOLE said:


> I've never messed with the domes, are they that delicate?


Yes. Soft silicone with weak adhesion to the LED chip.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> Yes. Soft silicone with weak adhesion to the LED chip.


IMO while not probable it is possible changing optics caused the de-doming. Non-stock optics fit tight in this light. The GW's aren't too bad but the leddna one you really have to cinch down. If others who use non-stock optics start having this problem it will be time to figure a safer way to fit these optics in. Thanks for the info.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yeap a little off center with any pressure will pop them once the light heats up for a few minutes. I accidently dedomed a couple doing that on different lights.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Yeap a little off center with any pressure will pop them once the light heats up for a few minutes. I accidently dedomed a couple doing that on different lights.


Good to know. Moot point on this light though. It wouldn't turn on when I went to do my testing tonight. Don't know if it's related to this emitter de-doming or the anemic turbo mode symptom its had since I got the light. Looking inside revealed no obvious signs of a short that I could see, just no light from the emitters. Disapointing
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Bet that dedomed one got damaged, hit the leads on the phosphor putting it back together, been there done that too lol. Irritating when you can change the emitter, for you....dead light unless you know how to change it.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I don't work on any of the internal stuff, vision just not good enough to even try. Light-head is no big loss since it wasn't right from the start. More disappointed I didn't get a chance to get some good lux #'s on it with a battery that didn't have 3+ hours of run time already. Did pull the optics on all the lights I change optics on (original BT21, Duo, Yinding, and the 2 Gloworms) with no sign of dome damage on any of those. On day 37 since shipped for the replacement light-head I ordered for the one that just died so it could come at any time. Did get some short lived experience with de-domed emitters and learned a little about emitter durability so not a total loss.
Mole


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

50mm said:


> What shipping times did you guys experience from Leddna optics? I ordered August 15 and still haven't received my 10 degree optics...
> 
> These lights are awesome. I went ahead and bought two bundle deals and tricked it all out with GoPro mounts from GearBest. New setup is sick!


Where did you order the gopro adapter?
Link please.

Edit- NVM found it


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ordered BT21 on Aug 12, sent out on Aug 14th and I'm still waiting to get it 
Opened support ticked and their stuff told me it has been sent by surface mail. WTF. Lately, it looks I'm not the only one waiting looooong time....


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Lately (like month or so) packages are really really slow to leave China.
Some of my orders waited as long as 2 weeks to get outside of China, then 3 days to get to my country and then 2 more weeks while customs department do their work. :eekster:
Also I noticed that more and more sellers on aliexpress for example are using unregistered shipping (they call it "Sellers shipping method") even if you pay for registered shipping and then claim it will be safer and quicker that way :madman: :nono:
You can hardly ever see shipping via Hong Kong post office which was the best and fastest in 2014, 2013...

It all started to fall apart when those planes crashed and lithium batteries were accused, I think.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

This stuff is always why I use paid shipping methods. I wish gearbest would get it figured out to use the same method the eBay sellers and other reputable retailers like fasttech,dx, banggood use. Much less issues with shipping. Kaidomain is the other place that would do better to learn to do things right with shipping methods and website showing when products are out of stock.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Well, shipping fees are included when customs charge us. Every shipment worth 22 EUR or more (shipment fee included) can be charged VAT + customs handling expenses. This is common EU directive but some countries are more and some are less strict. My country is pretty strict so for me it is best to keep values as low as I can. I almost never buy expensive stuff and I rather order every item separately. Tracked shipments are more likely inspected and chargerd.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> Ordered BT21 on Aug 12, sent out on Aug 14th and I'm still waiting to get it
> Opened support ticked and their stuff told me it has been sent by surface mail. WTF. Lately, it looks I'm not the only one waiting looooong time....


I'm in exactly the same situation as you, ordered BT21 (light-head) on Aug 12 and have not yet received it. After contacting GearBest and seeing others are having the same slow shipping issue I'm OK with it because I now feel that I will still receive my light and it is not lost in shipping some where and I don't really need the light immediately. The "problem" with this situation is not knowing what to expect. Knowing on the front end of the deal that it could take considerably longer than typical (10-25 days) GearBest uses as an example is a lot better IMO than stressing every day after "day 25" when your shipment is not delivered. I agree with Tigris99 that the paid (expedited shipping) works good and has been reliable for me but in the situation when only ordering a light-head the almost $15 extra charge probably won't work for most who are ordering this light because of quality/performance/and "Price". What can GearBest do? Change the wording of their disclaimer after the (10-25days) to something more concrete like "please contact us if you have not received you order in 60 days" (the point where their customer service is will to do something about a shipment). We're doing what we need to do by discussing this so at least other MTBR members know that shipping is just moving slower than usual and they don't have to wonder what's going on with their order.
Mole


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

Going to type this question in before I start digging for an answer in the thread, but I'm wondering if Turbo mode automatically disables when the battery gets close to 25%? Earlier I noticed I was down to just low med hi and shortly after the light switched to red. 

I don't have a charger at the moment to find out if this loss is permanent.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

once voltage drops that low the drivers falls out of regulation when you hit turbo due to voltage sag under load. Turbo is there, but its not any brighter than high cause the batteries cant do it anymore, too low on juice.

BTW, now that its running that low STOP PLAYING WITH IT since you cant charge it, your basically destroying your cells in that battery due to the fact they are going to sit in deep discharged state for a prolonged period. Your NEVER supossed to leave batteries discharged that low for long, need to be charged back up to 50% range soon after, not leave the cells that low for days/weeks.

BTW jedi, heres a cheap fix to your charger problem till you get it sorted. If you have Prime, youll have it before the weekend. All these battery packs use the same style chargers, just quality (like all cheap chinese stuff) gets sketchy. all that matters is they are 8.4v, no more than 2Amps, and have the correct connector. 
http://www.amazon.com/Gugou-Adapter...8&qid=1442992352&sr=8-6&keywords=8.4v+charger
just DO NOT leave charger unattended with battery charging unless its out side or at least on a concrete garage floow with nothing burnable close to it. In rare cases the charger regulation HAS FAILED on these cheap chargers and the protection should catch it before detonating the cells, but not worth the risk.


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

^good to know! Kinda sucks because I hit flashing red an hour ago lol But good to know. About half way through the orange cycle I had a feeling the modes weren't as bright as before.

There is a battery specialty store by me that closes early every day, going to try to get there tomorrow. Hopefully they have something that won't burst into flames  

Generally speaking once I have a charger is it better to run them down as far as I can or to recharge after each use?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Only run then all the way down if you have no other choice. And always recharge after each use unless you only used it for a few minutes after a full charge.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

And if you're going to store it for a "long time" (months?) - charge or discharge to "storage voltage". This is about 3.80v per cell, so 7.60v for a 2S#P pack.  Link for explanation. (Note: In reality I've hardly ever followed this. Most of my use is single Li-Ion 18650's and many of my cells are going on 3 to 4 years old now with little noticeable difference in usage.)

-Garry


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## mdemm (Aug 4, 2010)

About to pull the trigger on a BT21. Before I do, I've got a question about tint. I've been running a GlowWorm X1 as a helmet light (cool white). The BT21 is neutral white. Do you think I'd have issues running a neutral and cool white light at the same time ?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Cat posted some impressions - perhaps it was in his BT40S review thread. He didn't like the mix.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya the mix doesn't work well together because the cool white washes out the neutral tint. Action led will swap out cool white leds for neutrals if you want as well.


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

Thanks for the tips. Problem solved for 10 bux at best buy today:

Insignia Grounded NorthSouth American Power Adapter Black NS-TPLUGNA - Best Buy

I've got the battery plugged in now (the one that came with the bt70). It was down to flashing red, wonder how long it will take to charge.

I'm a little worried because when I plugged it in the light on the charger was green right away... and the instructions say it should be red and turn green when done?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya its red, green when done, but its green for the first couple seconds and green when pack isn't plugged into it


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

crap I don't know then, the charger light still is green... I guess it's charging, after a couple hours connected to the charger, i plugged the battery into the bt21 and it lit red instead of flashing red... Stuck it back to sit over night, see what happens. 

I'm wondering if that euro power adapter changes the resistance or power flow or something and is making it light up green. Guess I should fork out two more dollars and have one sent to me anyway.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Actually after a couple hours it should be green/blue at the light, not still red. The chargers run at 2 amps, so 2000mah worth of batter charged per hour. Only thing I can guess is the adapter is the issue. Those adapters kinda suck anyway.


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

2000 mah would be 2 amps, not 20 right? This adapter piece says 250v / 10amps. Been another hour and it still just shows red on the 21, and not enough juice to hit turbo. Going to unplug it and wait for the next solution.

WOW ok, listen to this. If you plug your battery into the charger and not into the wall what should happen? Just noticed the light stays green on my charger when it's connected to the battery and not the wall.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

The green is normal when pack pluged just to charger. Do you have any multimeters around? I would check voltages charger is providing and voltage of the battery pack too. Maybe we can tell you something based on that.


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

I don't have one on hand but I'll have my friend come over tomorrow and check it out for fun before I return it. I'm wondering if any juice is even flowing through that adapter from bestbuy.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well if led is lighting up then charger is getting juice.

Ledoman, I have 2 nitefighter chargers and both turn red as soon as pack is plugged in till its fully charged. His batteries are in the red and charger isn't doing anything for charging them.


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

^the light on the charger is powered by the battery, not the wall apparently (That or mines possessed  )


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tig, you don't read it very well. Sometimes you should do it more slowly. 

Jed, you shurely should check what voltage your charger is giving out (if any). Does it gives any light plugged just to the wall?


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

ha! Good call, should it light up just plugged into the wall? Mine doesn't.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Don't know for the nitefighter chargers, cause I don't have one. But all others I have the green is lit on when pluged into the wall. Then upon connection battery pack it lit red or stays green if pack is full.

Now there are two posible situation. Either charger is faulty or your US/EU adapter doesn't work or not properly set.


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

^neither one would surprise me at this point. I'm asking GB for a US charger, even if they are charging me. Returning the other piece to best buy tomorrow and putting the credit towards a copy of Wolfenstein for PS4. Winter is coming. I need entertainment.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Do you have any other charging equipmnet, something like hobby charger? Anyone in your neighbourhood is RC fan. Those very likely have hobby chargers. They can charge any kind of battery packs.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Ordered a BT21 about 2 weeks ago from Gearbest. Didn't get a confirmation email. No BT21 so far. 

What kind of wait time are others having? Did you get a confirmation email? (the last is what concerns me...I've had bad experiences in the past in other situations when no conformation email comes.)


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Structure said:


> Ordered a BT21 about 2 weeks ago from Gearbest. Didn't get a confirmation email. No BT21 so far.
> 
> What kind of wait time are others having? Did you get a confirmation email? (the last is what concerns me...I've had bad experiences in the past in other situations when no conformation email comes.)


Just ordered last night and I got an email that said they'd received payment for my order right after submitting my paypal payment.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

What run times can I expect with a Xeccon 8.4 V 6.6Ah battery?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I'm in the 6th week of waiting  Ordered 12th Aug, got shipm confirmation mail on 14th. Now is one month and 10 days since. Average delivery time is about 3 weeks.


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## Lucky Luciano (Aug 26, 2009)

I paid with Paypal, got confirmation right away and was shipped after 5 or 6 days.
So far I've been lucky, it took only 2 weeks to get from China to Romania via the free shipping. I'm waiting for the post office notice to go pick it up.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I received mine 8 days from order date to Portland OR & I used "express shipping" or whatever for $3. Money well spent I guess. 

@Jedi, did your pack get wet by chance?

I don't have nearly as much led experience as these guys but have been into RC for 26 years+ and lipo since it's commercial debut. Your pack (charger aside) is behaving as though it may have gotten wet and/or cells are out of balance (given everything else is ok). As others have stated the place to start is measure the voltage of your pack. You can buy a cheap multimeter from harbor freight for like $4. Maybe a good investment for the average niterider.


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

I don't have any other chargers around, but I think I've got it all sorted out!  I had to pay 20 dollars to get a different plug converter and I've finally got the battery charging showing a red light. 

It turns out I that converter I bought last night probably should have worked. It had two holes with spring loaded plastic flaps and the flaps were jammed so I didn't know it was an option. Turns out that's where it was supposed to go, slid right in with the new one that cost more. Figure about 4 hours to charge up then I can get back out


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

JediMindTrixR4Kidz said:


> I had to pay 20 dollars to get a different plug converter


What?!? :eekster:


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I just did the optic swap- I changed 1 optic to an LEDDNA 10 degree without the white housing. I removed the o-ring, but painted a thin layer of gasket-making silicone around the rim of the holder with a microbrush. I was careful not to damage the emitter.
Now I have a hotspot and some throw.

I also found a little 1200maH LiPO battery I had, and made it up as an emergency backup or commuter battery with the right connector and some waterproofing.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Thanks for the responses. Just wanted to let anyone that was having second thoughts about this light know that mine arrived today. Very nice kit. Light head is tiny. Very cool. Excited to try it next week.

Total shipping time for me was still only a little over 2 weeks. Not great, but not bad at all.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

If your in the states and chose free shipping option, 2 weeks is actually pretty good, dont get that lucky very often for free shipping options.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Ordered mine on Wednesday and it shipped Friday.


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

mestapho said:


> Ordered mine on Wednesday and it shipped Friday.


Paid $2 for expedited shipping and got mine in 3 days.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

mestapho said:


> What run times can I expect with a Xeccon 8.4 V 6.6Ah battery?


Bump


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Just by straight math with the light pulling 2.8A (2800mA), 6,600/2,800 = 2.36hrs. In reality I think it will be longer because the battery will have voltage sag causing the light to pull less current. Rough guess of 2.75 to 3hrs of "usable light". 

That's assuming the pack is really capable of 6,600mAh @ 2.8A draw. In reality it's likely a bit less.

-Garry


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Just by straight math with the light pulling 2.8A (2800mA), 6,600/2,800 = 2.36hrs. In reality I think it will be longer because the battery will have voltage sag causing the light to pull less current. Rough guess of 2.75 to 3hrs of "usable light".
> 
> That's assuming the pack is really capable of 6,600mAh @ 2.8A draw. In reality it's likely a bit less.
> 
> -Garry


Thanks. That's what I was hoping for.

Do we know how many lumens this light is actually putting out?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its back in the beginning of the thread but none if us have a sphere, estimation is 1400-1500 on turbo.


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

-Archie- said:


> What?!? :eekster:


Yeah the 10 dollar converter didn't work so I had to go to the next price level. This one actually worked at least. It makes the plug stick like a foot off the wall though so I still want GB to send me a proper US plug. That could be a long while though so I don't mind the 20 to get to ride the rest of the season out. (So much for that $20 I saved with the price match on the bt70 kit though).


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## JediMindTrixR4Kidz (Aug 27, 2015)

Back2MTB said:


> Paid $2 for expedited shipping and got mine in 3 days.


I paid $5 for expedited and got mine in just under two weeks haha Your mileage may vary


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I replaced my stock optics with the LEDDNA 10 degree ones. Removed the white holders but left the little o-rings in the faceplate (optics rattle without them and faceplate will seat all the way with them in anyway). Little o-rings started pushing out thru the front a little but I left well enough alone. Removed Chinese thermal compound and replaced with some good stuff (the Chinese stuff was gooped too thick anyway). Oh, and removed those stupid white ring things (centering rings?) No time to check beam pattern outside during dark, but looks tighter on a dark basement wall. No too tough of a mod. Just a pain to center the emitters in the optics.




-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice garry, ull like the smaller spot for sure. Without using the optics holders it is a nightmare to get the emitters centered. Bit easier with the holders modded and used. Not needed just made things a bit easier. Its the optic mainly anyway, just left.over flash from being made, they get titled ever so slightly in the plate when trying to install.



Try doing it with noctigons instead of stock emitter PCB


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE;12186818 I didn't include it in my lux tests but the 10° had slightly better lux #'s in both the bounce and center-beam tests with the white outer casing installed.
Mole[/QUOTE said:


> Thought I'd repost this in case those of you not using the white outer casing didn't see it. The difference is very small and probably hard to detect when riding but detectable by my light meter and free so why not.
> Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm. . . I'll have to go back and find the pic of the modded holders, may put those back in (if I can dig them out of the trash before it's too late).

I didn't even think to check if 16mm emitter boards would fit (for Noctigon use). Do they fit right in or do they require trimming? My stock emitter wires were very very short so I'd rather not mess with them.

Oh, and I already broke my stock o-ring mount! I took it off to check out the thin plastic in the screw hole. I cracked it when I reattached it. That plastic is WAY too thin! The plastic mount doesn't sit flush against the aluminum body so the screw pulls the plastic down. For now I have an aluminum o-ring mount from DX attached until I get a GoPro mount from vanc. I recommend to anyone using the BT21 to get a better mount! The stock one is not going to hold up to much abuse!


DX aluminum mount on the right, DX sku# in the rear (available from DXSoul for "US Direct" shipping).

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, noctigons wont fit without machining the case. I guess some serious trimming could work too but noctigons are thicker than stock PCB so cant tighten the front plate down fully. I machined material out of my housing both opening it up more for the diameter of the noctigon, and cut the holes a bit deeper. Took driver out and all that to do it.


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## benplaut (Oct 25, 2009)

There's a BT21/40/70 gopro mount on GB. Anyone have one yet? (I think it's new)

GB is being slow with my service ticket, we'll see how it turns out.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I ordered a few with "America Direct" shipping. I can post pics & measurements when I get them. 

-Garry


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## Snowcrash000 (Jun 7, 2014)

I'm considering buying this light and I made it through the first 10 pages or so so of this thread before deciding to post something directly. I hope I will be forgiven for not reading through all 28 pages before posting.

I'm getting the impression that the highest setting (turbo) can not be realistically used for prolonged riding as the light gets too hot and it drains power too quickly. How long can I run the light at constant brightness on "High" and is it bright enough for trail riding at this setting? Are there any pics available comparing High and Turbo directly without throwing another light into the mix?

There seem to have been issues with build quality regarding the button switch, case proofing and handlebar mount. Do these issues persist and how severe would you rate them?

I want to buy the kit including the battery pack. Opinions on it seem kinda mixed early in the thread. Would you consider the enclosed battery pack to be of good quality?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Batteries are good to go, nothing wrong with the stock batteries, their BAK cells (brand name cells). Only "cheap" lights that come with brand name cells. 

No reason you can't use turbo, all lights that are light weight get hot especially if your sitting still, you adjust modes based on your speed mostly, slower your going less light you need. And runs for about 2hrs on turbo, twice that long on high. And high is plenty unless your bombing down techy hills and stuff like that.

They have gopro mount adapters for $2 on the gearbest site so you can get around the mount issue cheap and easy.

As for the button, have seen much else about it since the early reports of the problem, nitefighter hopefully got that issue fixed.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Snowcrash000 said:


> I'm considering buying this light and I made it through the first 10 pages or so so of this thread before deciding to post something directly. I hope I will be forgiven for not reading through all 28 pages before posting.
> 
> I'm getting the impression that the highest setting (turbo) can not be realistically used for prolonged riding as the light gets too hot and it drains power too quickly. How long can I run the light at constant brightness on "High" and is it bright enough for trail riding at this setting? Are there any pics available comparing High and Turbo directly without throwing another light into the mix?
> 
> ...


The BT21 does get very hot when on turbo. For a lamp this size it is not unusual for it to get hot, especially if you aren't riding very fast. When using a lamp designed like this you just have to keep in mind the heat factor and limit the use of the highest mode. Very few LED bike lamps ( least of these being of Chinese design ) are able to fully dissipate the heat generated when using full power. For $30 bucks a pop you aren't going to get a design with state of the art heat management.

I've not seen a problem with the lamp myself but I've not used mine a whole lot. I have no idea how long it would last ( or run ) if used constantly on turbo. The high mode on the other hand is very bright and just a tad less output than turbo. On a side note if you use the BT21 with the new Gopro mount(s) ( either NF's or Vancbiker's ) and mount that directly to an all aluminum Gopro bar clamp, that should aid the lamp's ability to sink off some of the heat generated when on turbo. Otherwise when used on the lower high setting I don't think you will have a heat issue unless you are either riding too slow or in a very hot desert environment.

As for the top switch: I don't see a real problem with it. While it does feel a bit spongy with the silicone cover it has it works fine. Summing up, if you are going to use the BT21 as a bar lamp I don't think you will have any problems as long as there are no OTB quality issues. The battery is decent and the lamp provides a very good all around beam pattern for bar use. If you want to use as a helmet lamp ...Well....you might want to replace one or both optics but it's not something that has to be done. If you want a lamp that can serve either bar or helmet duties and do it using "Neutral warm" beam tinting, the BT21 is a good choice and great Bang-for-the-buck$.

( **Note, I think you get the Gopro _adapter_ if you purchase the full kit...someone correct me on that if I'm wrong ) You don't get the Gopro bar mount though. Order one of these at the same time and you should be fine. Use expedited shipping or you WILL wait a long time for your order to arrive.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Snowcrash000 said:


> ......I'm getting the impression that the highest setting (turbo) can not be realistically used for prolonged riding as the light gets too hot


IIRC some folks have found that using one of my finned GoPro adapters on the BT21 helps the cooling enough that they can run on "turbo" for extended periods. Ambient air temps will have a lot to do with that also.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Vanc, your correct. 10-15% decrease in temps (while moving). If your paranoid about temps and scared of the dark as I call it (new to night riding peeps usually are, I was) and feel that you need turbo all the time, Vancs mount is the way to go. Between it and a gopro handlebar mount, it will all be practically bomb proof. And iirc, mr mole tested the bt21 (have to find his posts) and bt21 did better thermally with air flow and output vs 10x more expensive glowworm x2.

If you live in the south where its above 80 at night, turbo would be reserved for fast descents, up where I live in north western Illinois (1-1.5hrs drive time south of Wisconsin on the river) except for the nasty handful of summer nights, I can run turbo all I want as long as im moving more than a walking pace. But turbo being a "waste of battery" is a matter of what you really need, not being scared of the dark. Faster you go the more light you need. So climbs medium is good, flats and non technical descents high is plenty. Start going insanely fast down techy descents then turbo is a must just to increase your site range and clarity at range.

Oh and battery run times are actually a hair better than what is stated on the website for the light. Turbo was a bit over 2 hrs (dropped out of regulation at roughly 1 hr 40 mins Iirc).


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

I can confirm that after tonight's night ride that high setting on the BT21 is already really frickin bright. 
Most peeps I ride w/ were blown away when I showed them turbo setting, were once again blown away when I told them the price. I've spread the word about these great lights before but everyone I ride with are skeptics as soon as you say online from China ..Oh well.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Meh, can't blame them for being skeptical. First time I took my buddy night riding his exact words (had to post it on facebook) was " He looked like a locomotive coming down the trail". And that was yinding on lid and bt40s on the bars. Bt21 and my modded 880 clone or other bt21 on the bars, if the trails weren't tight and wooded area, id have enough light for both of us lol.


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## Snowcrash000 (Jun 7, 2014)

Thanks for the answers, sounds good so far! Ideally, I would never really use Turbo at all and instead have 3-4 hours of good light on High. I've only been riding for about half a year, so I don't really do fast and techy at the same time .

What worries me now is the shipping. If shipping to the US already takes a long time, it's probably going to be even worse for Europe and I need the light fast. But expedited shipping is going to add another $15 to the bill on top of $10 for a european charger and almost $10 for the gopro mount which would bring the total price for the kit to almost $100 and at that price point it becomes a lot less desireable.

Any idea how long flat rate shipping would take to Germany? It's a real shame that the folks behind this light are not offering a european kit, by the way...


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Snowcrash000 said:


> ...What worries me now is the shipping. .....


I don't think this is general issue with Gearbest, it's probably some kind of coincidence with postal companies. It looks like few of us having bad luck falling into period in August everything got shipped with snail mail. Don't know what is scene behind this. Mostly my delivery time averaged to about 3 weeks. Now it's doubled.

Just for the record. Gearbest policy is "wait for 2 months" and then take some resending or refunding actions if user still complains. Now when PayPal policy has extend opening case from 45 to 180 days, they are more relaxed and don't offer any solution before 2 months. At least that's what I could read between lines when contacting their customer service.


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## Snowcrash000 (Jun 7, 2014)

Having only just looked into Gearbest's refund policy, I find it a little worrying as well, to be honest. As far as I can tell, they don't refund your money, but give you store credit instead, which is pretty useless to be. So basically, since I don't use paypal, if the light doesn't arrive within two months (which is already way too long), unless there's something I'm missing, I'm just screwed...


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

UGH! Had a heck of a time getting those white holders back in with my LEDDNA 10 degree optics! I should have left well enough alone! (I'll never learn!) I just could not get the front to seat tightly with those holders in place, even after trimming the fronts way back. What finally did it for me was opening up the emitter hole. I think part of my issue is that one of the emitters isn't centered well on the pcb. Here's a pic:










*TIP* - those white holders either must be trimmed back so that don't go into the BT21's faceplate, OR trimmed to the point where they will go into the faceplate (mine barely go in, but they are loose enough not to kick out of position).

Here are a few pics showing how scratched up the optics are (I think they came with some scratches because I was pretty careful with them):



















And the light reassembled:










I am using my PVC light tube ("integrating sphere") to get "with" & "without" holder lux measurements (LEDDNA 10 degree optics only - sorry, I'm not taking it back apart to get measurements on the stock optics). I can't give lumens numbers as I'm waiting to buy a much better lux meter (mine doesn't match with BLF lux throw measurements at all so I don't trust it), but it will at least give me relative numbers to see the output difference. This will measure "total output", and therefore beam pattern/intensity doesn't make any difference like it does with a ceiling bounce measurement. Here's my PVC light tube setup:










I do have foam to use around the light to block extraneous light from getting in (I just grabbed a rag this morning and made sure the meter read "0" to start). My measurements will be posted later tonight. I'm not home to use the light tube right now.

If anyone wants further reading (or to see proof of concept) on the PVC light tube idea for measuring lumens, see this BLF thread, I used the ones in post#56 & #74 as a model for mine.

-Garry


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## Lucky Luciano (Aug 26, 2009)

Mine arrived and thankfully the charger works at 220 V too. Is it OK that the charger is at 8.4V but the battery pack at 7.4?

I've tested the lights on the road where they're underwhelming compared to the trail pictures posted here but I guess that's to be expected. Medium seems usable only at speeds up to 20 kph.
I'll post some pics when I can test it on a pitch dark road. 
Light color is sort of yellowish with a tinge of green but still way better that the cool white leds. 
I tried the helmet mount too. The heft of the headlight and tallness of the mount made me feel like I was hungover.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Lucky Luciano said:


> Is it OK that the charger is at 8.4V but the battery pack at 7.4?


Yes. 7.4v would be "nominal voltage", but 8.4v is the full charge voltage.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Tested lux with the white holders in place. Pretty disappointing results:

Without white holders: 96
With white holders: 95

This was after giving the batteries (in my modded Fenix case) a quick 5 min charge @ 1A I hopes of having the cells at the same charge level as the first test. (I was getting about 88 before charging). Not sure if the scratches brought down my #'s or not. It wasn't a very well done test. Oh well, I'm leaving well enough alone. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, you cut the holders to open the bottoms up, ruining the spacing and alignment possibly, so doesn't surprise me about the results now.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Can someone tell which glowworm spots fit the BT21?

Will it work/fit with one glowworm spot & one stock lens or best to change both?

Dialing in my light setup for a Moab trip. Only have 700-900 lumen flood for the bars & plan to use the Bt 21 for my helmet. Thanks for any tips


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## stevenk4563 (Jun 21, 2010)

Does anyone have a quick how-to guide for modifying the LEDDNA 10 deg optics to fit the BT21? I got a bit lost in all the different posts. Thanks


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## Snowcrash000 (Jun 7, 2014)

Lucky Luciano said:


> Mine arrived and thankfully the charger works at 220 V too.


I take it that you're from Europe? Good to know about the charger, so that means that it will work with a simple plug adaptor, right?

Which shipping method did you use, how much did it cost and long did it take to arrive?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Garry, you cut the holders to open the bottoms up, ruining the spacing and alignment possibly, so doesn't surprise me about the results now.


I don't know that my optics sit any lower than they would with the holders correctly mounted. I do know that I couldn't get a correct alignment/fit without cutting those openings no matter how hard I tried. I took it that the gains would come from the white holder acting as a reflector to bounce the light back through the optic, not from correct spacing from using the holder.



stevenk4563 said:


> Does anyone have a quick how-to guide for modifying the LEDDNA 10 deg optics to fit the BT21? I got a bit lost in all the different posts. Thanks


Take a look at my post #703 above, BUT try first without opening up the emitter side (square hole). Perhaps yours will seat better. Some people are getting a fit that leaves a gap at the front plate. I wouldn't leave a gap if it were me. Buy spare optics (esp. since they are so cheap). Use the first pair to get the fit right, then when you have it the way you want swap in two brand new ones. This way your not concerned with scratches on the first pair.

OR - just simply remove the white holders and toss them placing only the optic into the light head. No mods needed to do it that way and still good output results. (See my post #686 without holders.) Either way you go, just try to be careful about the front o-ring alignment when you tighten it all back up.

-Garry


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

stevenk4563 said:


> Does anyone have a quick how-to guide for modifying the LEDDNA 10 deg optics to fit the BT21? I got a bit lost in all the different posts. Thanks


Simple. I popped the optic out of the white holder and just used the bare optic. I removed the thin o-rings from the outer retainer, and instead placed a thin layer of silicone gasket-maker sealant with a tiny microbrush to waterproof.

Everything fit together fine without any further modifications. No messing around grinding optics or holders.

I did dry-fit first. It wasn't going to work with the thin o-rings in place without a lot of force.


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## stevenk4563 (Jun 21, 2010)

Thanks, would silicone torch grease work instead of the gasket sealant, I don't have any of that.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

stevenk4563 said:


> Thanks, would silicone torch grease work instead of the gasket sealant, I don't have any of that.


Hmm, good idea. If the fit is tight enough it may be sufficient, and would allow disassembly easier than the silicone sealant. Just don't grease up the optical surface.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I did dry-fit first. It wasn't going to work with the thin o-rings in place without a lot of force.


Mine without holders fit fine with the faceplate completely seated. I had to use little force, but it wasn't bad at all.

-Garry


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## Lucky Luciano (Aug 26, 2009)

Snowcrash000 said:


> I take it that you're from Europe? Good to know about the charger, so that means that it will work with a simple plug adaptor, right?
> 
> Which shipping method did you use, how much did it cost and long did it take to arrive?


It included a plug adapter as well but it was rather flimsy so I used a sturdier one I had.

I chose the Flat Rate Shipping (Free shipping). Took them 6 days to process the order, 9 days from China to Holland (I don't even know how that was possible) and a few more days shipping via PostNL to Romania.

The box had ~22 euros written on it. I didn't find an invoice inside. Either way, I was surprised when the local post office didn't ask me to pay any VAT but I didn't complain .


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I have no issues either without the holders in place. I just did the mod to install them cause I can.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

In making GoPro adapters for these and other Chinese lights, I've learned that their tolerances for manufacturing the housings are pretty loose. I can very much see how one persons light fits the LEDDNA optics pretty easily and another persons light is very tight.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

WHALENARD said:


> Can someone tell which glowworm spots fit the BT21?
> 
> Will it work/fit with one glowworm spot & one stock lens or best to change both?
> 
> Dialing in my light setup for a Moab trip. Only have 700-900 lumen flood for the bars & plan to use the Bt 21 for my helmet. Thanks for any tips


Gloworm XS spot.........................210/76
Gloworm XS/X2v3.1 Spot Optic ? Action-LED-Lights

It will work with just one but using a pair of these optics would double the results and is what I would recommend if your using it for your helmet light.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Tested lux with the white holders in place. Pretty disappointing results:
> 
> Without white holders: 96
> With white holders: 95
> ...


I dug up the bounce/center beam test results I got on this optic with and without the white outer shell. They calculated out to +3% on the bounce and +5% center beam using the outer shell. I didn't modify the emitter side of the shell and considering the performance drop I got by just sanding off the feet on my leddna 15°'s this "could" be the reason our results differed. Different testing method though, yours measures total output where as mine is more OTF light oriented. Nice testing equipment you made!
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Simple. I popped the optic out of the white holder and just used the bare optic. I removed the thin o-rings from the outer retainer, and instead placed a thin layer of silicone gasket-maker sealant with a tiny microbrush to waterproof.
> 
> Everything fit together fine without any further modifications. No messing around grinding optics or holders.
> 
> I did dry-fit first. It wasn't going to work with the thin o-rings in place without a lot of force.


I pretty much did the same thing only I haven't used anything to seal it yet. The gasket sealer sounds like a good idea. I was thinking of using Plastic dip or Loctite to replace the mini O-ring ( since it won't tighten all the way using the o-ring ). As long as it's a liquid that dries hard and then seals it should work. Like you said though, you have to be careful to keep it off the lens. Mine works fine without any sealant but not sure I would trust it to keep working if I got caught in a rain.

I don't think I would recommend torch grease. I think someone said that grease ( or was it silicone ? ) can eat away at the plastic of the optic.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its grease, as long as it proper silicone and not the older smelly black rtv (crap corrodes everything)


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*I you use one of these mounts Please get longer beefier bolts the allen screw and the aluminum strip out real easy

*


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

Rakuman said:


> *I you use one of these mounts Please get longer beefier bolts the allen screw and the aluminum strip out real easy
> 
> *
> View attachment 1019384


I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question but what are you using to fix the light head to that bar mount?


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

Back2MTB said:


> I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question but what are you using to fix the light head to that bar mount?


*Go pro mount!*


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Rakuman said:


> *I you use one of these mounts Please get longer beefier bolts the allen screw and the aluminum strip out real easy
> 
> *
> View attachment 1019384


I have 4 of these never an issue, your problem is that your WAY over tightening them if your stripping them out. All of mine are the cheap Chinese ones too and 0 issues. But I install them using blue loctite on the screws (what your supposed to do with steel I to aluminum) and snug down till it doesn't move easily but can move in a crash.


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

Any chance you could be more specific? You mean a Go pro mount adapter?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Contact
Vancbiker 
http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=261897
He sells a GoPro adapter for this light. 
$21 shipped (in the states) I believe.


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

Hmm, I'm going to try and see if this thing will thread into the light:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VAX8EEA?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

Gear best also has go pro adapter specifically for BT21 but Vancbiker one has heat sink fins and are proven to reduce op temps.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> I have 4 of these never an issue, your problem is that your WAY over tightening them if your stripping them out. All of mine are the cheap Chinese ones too and 0 issues. But I install them using blue loctite on the screws (what your supposed to do with steel I to aluminum) and snug down till it doesn't move easily but can move in a crash.


*I'm not way over tightening them with my big bars+ some padding to give it some grip so my gopro doesn't slip on the bars the bar bolts still could use another 1/8 of an inch and the light or gopro allen stripped before it was tight enough to keep my gopro from sagging down in the rough. now with the longer bolts i can crank it down for zero slippage. sure if all you are using it for is a light head you can probably get away with the light tension but for a much heavier go pro I highly suggest getting longer better bolts with a deeper allen socket...*


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Lucky Luciano said:


> It included a plug adapter as well but it was rather flimsy so I used a sturdier one I had.
> 
> I chose the Flat Rate Shipping (Free shipping). Took them 6 days to process the order, 9 days from China to Holland (I don't even know how that was possible) and a few more days shipping via PostNL to Romania.
> 
> The box had ~22 euros written on it. I didn't find an invoice inside. Either way, I was surprised when the local post office didn't ask me to pay any VAT but I didn't complain .


I'm glad to see someone has had recent good luck with Gearbest free shipping but since I'm now on day 50 with no delivery I find the red portion of the quoted post particularly irritating! Must be positive, only 10 more days and I can make a claim and maybe this means Gearbest has worked out their slow shipping problem.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Back2MTB said:


> Any chance you could be more specific? You mean a Go pro mount adapter?


Replying to how not to strip out the hardware/handlebar mount was all.

If you ride in warm/hot temps get vancbikers mount. Cool weather it doesn't matter so much which one. I swear by his mounts cause I know they'll far outlast the electronics in the light head and are about bomb proof.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

MRMOLE said:


> I'm glad to see someone has had recent good luck with Gearbest free shipping but since I'm now on day 50 with no delivery I find the red portion of the quoted post particularly irritating! Must be positive, only 10 more days and I can make a claim and maybe this means Gearbest has worked out their slow shipping problem.
> Mole


Man I sure hope that I don't have this problem with the order that I just placed. However I did select expedited shipping but after I checked out it gave me standard shipping. I haven't had any luck yet trying to get this resolved with GB. It has been four days and I still haven't received a shipping notice. Maybe I should have ordered from Deals Machine instead.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Back2MTB said:


> Hmm, I'm going to try and see if this thing will thread into the light:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VAX8EEA?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00


Those won't thread in as-is. They are 1/4" 20 thread and you'd need a metric M4 threaded screw. They are also plastic. I've never seen an aluminum one of that style. You might get away with replacing the screw.

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

huckleberry hound said:


> Man I sure hope that I don't have this problem with the order that I just placed. However I did select expedited shipping but after I checked out it gave me standard shipping. I haven't had any luck yet trying to get this resolved with GB. It has been four days and I still haven't received a shipping notice. Maybe I should have ordered from Deals Machine instead.


Didn't mean to scare you. Everyone I've seen suffering with this slow shipping problem made their orders mid Aug. to early Sept. This is my 5th order with Gearbest and the only one I've had a problem with. My Yinding took less than 3 weeks with the "Free shipping" on the rest with the exception of this slow one I've used the expedited shipping and had the orders in less that a week. The post I quoted in my last post ordered way after I did and already received his order so lets hope the problem is just isolated to the time frame I ordered. I just felt like venting cause I want my light-head.
Mole


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

MRMOLE said:


> Gloworm XS spot.........................210/76
> Gloworm XS/X2v3.1 Spot Optic ? Action-LED-Lights
> 
> It will work with just one but using a pair of these optics would double the results and is what I would recommend if your using it for your helmet light.
> Mole


Thanks Mole! 
Ordered some up last night


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Back2MTB said:


> Any chance you could be more specific? You mean a Go pro mount adapter?


@Back2MTB, Here's a bit of a shameless plug...

Here is a link to a post showing a nice example of the GoPro adapters on a variety of lights including the Nitefighter BT21.

GoPro light adapter with fins for additional heatsinking - Page 9- Mtbr.com


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## juhake (Oct 26, 2007)

BT21 seems to be out of stock at Gearbest, does anyone know when they will get more lamp heads?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No way of knowing, usually doesn't take too long unless manufacturer can't keep up


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## KanPanic (May 22, 2007)

huckleberry hound said:


> Man I sure hope that I don't have this problem with the order that I just placed. However I did select expedited shipping but after I checked out it gave me standard shipping. I haven't had any luck yet trying to get this resolved with GB. It has been four days and I still haven't received a shipping notice. Maybe I should have ordered from Deals Machine instead.


Exact same situation here. After getting my confirmation I put in a ticket requesting expedited shipping and all I have received is a confirmation that I made a request. The wait is on....


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Guys china is on holiday this week so no one is getting info or anything shipping till monday


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## canker (Jul 26, 2007)

My bt21 headlight only ordered from gearbest on Sept 21 showed up today on the East coast US so not too bad. Smaller light than I was expecting being used to the old standard single led magicshine clones. Hard to compare throw in my back yard but it has a lot better spread with no hot spot but due to rain it will be a few days before I can see how it does on the trail.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Snagged a few beamshots of my BT21 with LEDDNA 10º optics last night. Same location as my other beamshots. I used 2 batteries at about 75% charge in my modded Fenix case (so Turbo may be a hair dimmer than max). Distance to the two trees is approx. 185 feet, approx. 275 feet to the house off to the left of the tree:

Low:


Med:


High:


Turbo:


My wooded setting:

Low:


Med:


High:


Turbo:


For comparison, here's the BT40s on Turbo:





-Garry


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## Lucky Luciano (Aug 26, 2009)

Does the pack actually contain 4 batteries or only 2?
On it it says H18650CH x 4 but an H18650CH is 3.7V and 2600mah. 1pcs H18650CH 3.7v 2600mAh 18650 lithium-ion Rechargeable Battery Sale-Banggood.com


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

If you're questioning my post about using 2 cells, I'm not using the pack that comes with the BT21, but the pack that does come with the BT21 kit does include 4 cells. 

-Garry


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## Lucky Luciano (Aug 26, 2009)

I mean the original pack. Because the battery in that link has 2600mAh and 4x that would be 10400 mAh, not 5200 (as in says in the battery pack specs).


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Oh, well the pack is 2S2P (two in series, two in parallel) which is double the voltage (i.e. 8.4v) and double the capacity (i.e. 5,200mAh). Cells in series do not increase capacity, only voltage. 

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Garry...Very good photos. :thumbsup:


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Received my Gloworm spot lenses which presented 2 problems upon installation (which have both been covered by others installing non-stock lenses. The lenses are to tall leaving a gap between the body & cover, and the lenses are a different shape which allows them to pass through the holders and bottom out on the emitter/board.

The holders are chamfered on one side to receive the curvature of the stock lens. Merely flipping them around solved the problem of the new lenses bottoming out. Replacing the main stock o-ring with one 2 gauges thicker diameter solved the problem of the gap. No need to alter the lenses at all. I retained whatever waterproofing there was originally & makes for a nice tidy end product.

My seat of the pants test....wow! The difference of light is noticeable. Especially on low. First ride out, and when I almost always had it on turbo, high seemed to be plenty. Worthy upgrade in my opinion. Overall very pleased with this little light


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

You went through alot of work to fit the gw optics . Take out the stock rings, let the optics sit against the emitters (its normal we've done it on these and yindings). Then as you did, thicker oring for front plate seal, or thinner for the optics orings (or if you don't ride in the rain which here if it rains, trails are closed. just remove the orings for the optics and don't worry about it)

The leddna 10 deg optics are even better for helmet use, gw optics can go either way which is nice.


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## guggas (Jan 31, 2011)

Does the BT21 kit come with whatever I need to mount it to a helmet? If not what else is needed?

Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Refer back to the first post's/review video. Yes its all there


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## KanPanic (May 22, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Guys china is on holiday this week so no one is getting info or anything shipping till monday


Yep got a message on Monday that they are out of stock (bt-21 bundle). The good news is they will be back in stock in 7 business days. Hope this helps anyone else that's currently waiting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## canker (Jul 26, 2007)

Just had my first night ride with my b21. I ran it on the bars and had an old single cree magic shine clone on my helmet. Switching back and forth between those you could easily tell the tint on the bt21 was nicer and the beam pattern is insanely better. Throw doesn't really seem much different but throw with the clone light was never really the problem, the extreme hot spot was. Really looking forward to my bt40 showing up.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Missing "China Post"*



KanPanic said:


> Yep got a message on Monday that they are out of stock (bt-21 bundle). The good news is they will be back in stock in 7 business days. Hope this helps anyone else that's currently waiting.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is good to hear. As of yesterday it has been 55 days since my BT21 light-head was shipped so (if it doesn't show up) by Monday which is when Gearbest said I should contact them if I don't receive my shipment at least the light will be in back stock. "China Post" was so much better (faster & more reliable) than their current ground shipping as a free shipping option. I'm guessing shipping costs had something to do with the change. While I understand Gearbest's side that saving a little on each order with their high volume makes a big difference to their bottom line, as their customer it would be nice (more preferable) if they still offered "China Post" as an option even if we had to pay a little extra for shipping.
Nole


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I'm in the same boat. Things from Banggood keeps coming on time while Gearbest doesn't show at all. My BT21 was shipped on 14th Aug, so 7 days left to go. Shurely I would open PP case if they won't give me refund to order new one. BTW I've ordered head only.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> I'm in the same boat. Things from Banggood keeps coming on time while Gearbest doesn't show at all. My BT21 was shipped on 14th Aug, so 7 days left to go. Shurely I would open PP case if they won't give me refund to order new one. BTW I've ordered head only.


ledoman - I've been watching all of your and "Cats" post in hopes one of us would receive what we ordered. If necessary, Monday I'll be contacting Gearbest and at this point have no reason to believe they won't fairly take care of the situation (paypal is always an option). So if you don't see a post that I got my light-head in the next 5 days then I''ll post what Gearbest has to say Monday and what they are willing to do to fix our shared problem.
Mole


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks Mole, looking forward to hear from you.


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## guggas (Jan 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> ledoman - I've been watching all of your and "Cats" post in hopes one of us would receive what we ordered. If necessary, Monday I'll be contacting Gearbest and at this point have no reason to believe they won't fairly take care of the situation (paypal is always an option). So if you don't see a post that I got my light-head in the next 5 days then I''ll post what Gearbest has to say Monday and what they are willing to do to fix our shared problem.
> Mole


I ordered mine last week and haven't gotten shipping confirmation yet. Hoping it will happen in the next few days. Yall should probably wait till mine ships before you raise too much of a stink with GB. I would hate for them to pull mine and send it to you  :nono:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> You went through alot of work to fit the gw optics . Take out the stock rings, let the optics sit against the emitters (its normal we've done it on these and yindings). Then as you did, thicker oring for front plate seal, or thinner for the optics orings (or if you don't ride in the rain which here if it rains, trails are closed. just remove the orings for the optics and don't worry about it)
> 
> *The leddna 10 deg optics are even better for helmet use*, gw optics can go either way which is nice.


Are you talking about these?...I don't see a 10° optic for XM-L(2) at LEDDNA...:skep:


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

I've been following this thread as a lurker for a little while after finding it through a google search. I just want to add that I ordered a complete bt21 kit on Sept.19 and have not received a shipping confirmation yet either. Otoh, I ordered a light head and bt40s from DealsMachine on the 18th, and it arrived inside of 2 weeks. I contacted customer service at GB last week and was informed that they were out of stock but expected them inside of 7 days. Also waiting...


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I ordered the GoPro adapters and some misc. GoPro mounts 2 weeks ago with "America Direct" shipping and still no shipping notice! Maybe Banggood should become a Nitefighter distributer.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat XML and xm-l2 use the same optics 

I will contact gearbest and find out why website isn't showing stock status as its supposed to.


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## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

I've installed Fasttech 15 degree spot optics in my BT21. Install was super easy, I just had to cut of the tangs on the emitter side & sand them down a bit. The cover plate with orings is a perfect fit. I'm disappointed with the results, though. I just don't seem to get the throw I was hoping for & it's not as spotty as I'd expected. I'm not sure if I did something wrong when I mounted them -the emitter domes seem well centered in the optics, they sit right flush on the board, aren't scratched, etc. So, I've ordered 2 sets (in case I botch the trim job) of 10 degree spots from LEDDNA & am hoping these will do the trick.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The 15deg have decent throw but not a tight spot. Their optics instead of flashlight reflectors. How much throw ull need varies on trails you ride and such. The 10deg spot optics are a bit tighter, and less spill/more intense spot. But you'll never get the flashlight type tiny spot in lights this small.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

redwarrior said:


> I've installed Fasttech 15 degree spot optics in my BT21. Install was super easy, I just had to cut of the tangs on the emitter side & sand them down a bit. The cover plate with orings is a perfect fit. I'm disappointed with the results, though. I just don't seem to get the throw I was hoping for & it's not as spotty as I'd expected. I'm not sure if I did something wrong when I mounted them -the emitter domes seem well centered in the optics, they sit right flush on the board, aren't scratched, etc. So, I've ordered 2 sets (in case I botch the trim job) of 10 degree spots from LEDDNA & am hoping these will do the trick.


Don't expect a spotty beam with this light. Others who have posted on this tread actually use this light on the bars with spot optics. I personally prefer a little wider beam for my bar lights but can understand as the BT21 has a much wider beam with identical optics than any of my other similarly configured lights (Duo, Yinding, Gloworm). I've also tested (and light meter measured) The Fasttech 15°, Leddna 15° and 10° and Gloworm XS spot optics. Others on this thread who probably have better eyes than me swear the Leddna optics have better throw than the Gloworm but I personally can't tell any difference in any of them except in beam width (advantage Gloworm).
The light meter however definitely favors the Gloworm XS spots with better #'s on both bounce (over all power) and center beam (throw) lux readings and may provide the answer as to whether your modifications to the emitter to better fit the Fasttech optics might have effected your results. My attempt at making the 15° optics fit better was to sand off the feet @ the emitter side of the optic. Both modifications would result in bringing the emitter closer to the front of the optic and in my case lowered the lux #'s on the bounce test and especially the center beam test so it may have effected your results in the same way. At this point in time my guess is that moving the front cover of the light forward is a better solution for fitting these slightly taller optics. The one configuration I've tried that might give you exactly what you want is to dedome the emitters. I tried this by accident (I probably accidently tore off the domes changing optics). This was on a light-head that no functional turbo mode (maybe 10% more than high) but first ride I immediately noticed a difference (more throw, brighter, spottier and the best center beams lux #'s I've ever got on this light). Unfortunately this was the last time the light worked and it's hard recommending trying this when I had so little time to test. It looks promising though and if I ever get my new light-head (ordered 2 months ago) I'm considering attempting to dedome the new one and see how it works with a light that makes full power. For the moment try your new 10°s and let us know how you like them.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I use my bt21 for helmet duty . To me using 10deg optics the spot looks the same as with my yinding. My next test is one gw optic one 10deg. Hate having a $7 optic not being used


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> I use my bt21 for helmet duty . To me using 10deg optics the spot looks the same as with my yinding. My next test is one gw optic one 10deg. Hate having a $7 optic not being used


Did you ever find out what GW spot optic you have? I remember when you first got the GW optics you mentioned that the spot fit loose which it shouldn't and made me think you might have a X2V3 optic. The XS optic is what I use (also fits X2V3.1). When gloworm made the change they redesigned the light body just to fit the XS optic and for a while Jim (Action-LED-Lights) had his beam pattern charts posted for both versions with the newer one having quite an advantage. This might explain why you get more throw out of your leddna optics. Still waiting on my last BT21 order (57 days and counting). Going out the door for a 50mi. ride so post lots of stuff so I have something interesting to read when I get back.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol, I have the good one, its the flood optic that I got was the one I complained about cause its nothing more than a carclo flood optic


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## canker (Jul 26, 2007)

Second ride on the bt21 and still loving it. I will say my cheapo 4400mA battery really isn't cutting it for this light though. I'm getting around an hour and a half run time with a 50/50ish mix of med and high on the bt21 vs two and a quarter on high with the regular single cree clone light. I guess I should have expected that but if anybody else is planning on just buying the light hopefully you have a decent battery. Once my bt40s shows up with it's good battery I'll be fine since I'll have two of the cheapo 4400mA batteries for the bt21.


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## Lucky Luciano (Aug 26, 2009)

I measured the battery life on "High" a couple of times. It seems to last about 3hr30 to 3hr40.

The first time I didn't pay much attention and the light seemed to go from yellow led to dead quite fast.
The second time it went from green to blue at 1hr35, to yellow at 3hr10 and to red at 3hr40. I didn't let it get to blinking red which I assume was close anyway and probably bad to battery health.

Green means 100-75% charge, blue 75-50%, yellow 50-25%, red 25-5, blinking red under 5%.

I did the measurements in indoor conditions with a cpu cooler on top of the headlight so it would not overheat and drop down a level.


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

*My version of LEDDNA 10 degree optics install*

I found 2 small o-rings that fit around the emitters, eliminated the stock white rings and LEDDNA holders. Left all of the stock o-rings in place, carefully tightened everything back up, no gap and optics don't rattle:


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## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

MRMOLE said:


> Don't expect a spotty beam with this light. Others who have posted on this tread actually use this light on the bars with spot optics. I personally prefer a little wider beam for my bar lights but can understand as the BT21 has a much wider beam with identical optics than any of my other similarly configured lights (Duo, Yinding, Gloworm). I've also tested (and light meter measured) The Fasttech 15°, Leddna 15° and 10° and Gloworm XS spot optics. Others on this thread who probably have better eyes than me swear the Leddna optics have better throw than the Gloworm but I personally can't tell any difference in any of them except in beam width (advantage Gloworm).
> The light meter however definitely favors the Gloworm XS spots with better #'s on both bounce (over all power) and center beam (throw) lux readings and may provide the answer as to whether your modifications to the emitter to better fit the Fasttech optics might have effected your results. My attempt at making the 15° optics fit better was to sand off the feet @ the emitter side of the optic. Both modifications would result in bringing the emitter closer to the front of the optic and in my case lowered the lux #'s on the bounce test and especially the center beam test so it may have effected your results in the same way. At this point in time my guess is that moving the front cover of the light forward is a better solution for fitting these slightly taller optics. The one configuration I've tried that might give you exactly what you want is to dedome the emitters. I tried this by accident (I probably accidently tore off the domes changing optics). This was on a light-head that no functional turbo mode (maybe 10% more than high) but first ride I immediately noticed a difference (more throw, brighter, spottier and the best center beams lux #'s I've ever got on this light). Unfortunately this was the last time the light worked and it's hard recommending trying this when I had so little time to test. It looks promising though and if I ever get my new light-head (ordered 2 months ago) I'm considering attempting to dedome the new one and see how it works with a light that makes full power. For the moment try your new 10°s and let us know how you like them.
> Mole


Thanks for taking the time for this response! I'll fiddle with the LEDDNA & report back.


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## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

efuss said:


> I found 2 small o-rings that fit around the emitters, eliminated the stock white rings and LEDDNA holders. Left all of the stock o-rings in place, carefully tightened everything back up, no gap and optics don't rattle:
> 
> View attachment 1021313


Are you happy with how the output looks??


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

I have yet to get it out on the trail, but just from shining it on the wall, it has a nice round beam instead of the rectangular beam that the stock optics put out.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Just got the two I ordered today. 
Ordered 9/23/15
Shipped 9/26/15
Received 10/9/15

15 days from order to received.

This thing is tiny! Can't wait to try it out.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

You guys are lucky, I'm still waiting mine. Ordered 12th Aug, shipped 14th Aug.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I submitted a support ticket with GearBest on my order status (GoPro adapters) and they responded that a few of my items are out of stock with an ETA of 1 to 2 weeks! Ugh! I've already waited 2 weeks!

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

What did you order besides the adapters, I was considering placing an order for a few things but really not in the mood to play that game of waiting cause not in stock.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It was the new Nitefighter GoPro adapters and a few misc. GoPro mounts. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Monday will be my 60th day of waiting for my shipment. At this point I have little hope I will actually receive the BT21 light-head I ordered on 8/12 (shipped 8/13). Not sure what happened to the shipments for those of us who ordered mid-late Aug. but people seem to be getting their orders fairly promptly now (except backordered items). It will be interesting seeing how the claims process goes with Gearbest and if they offer to do anything to compensate me for my troubles. All I really want is my light-head ASAP so I'm definitely going to ask that they give expedited delivery free of charge but we'll see how it goes.

I checked out the Dealsmachine website after see someone post they had good service and quick delivery on their order. I ended up ordering a BT40 kit ($44.95) + a BT70 light-head ($27.95) and 2 small Gopro adapters ($1.60 ea)(to hold me over till I can get proper ones from Vancbiker) + expedited shipping ($12.95) and a couple of more dollars for insurance. You have to be careful ordering, the prices look great but shipping charges vary greatly depending on what you order. This may be a good alternative to Gearbest if their shipping issues continue. I haven't seen any lux #'s on these very popular lights so I'm looking forward to testing them with the light-meter.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It would be great to see a better distributer for Nitefighter. Either Nitefighter direct thru Ebay (haven't checked ebay lately for a bt21), Amazon (actually fulfilled by amazon), Action LED, or some other US source (sorry non-US buyers). Perhaps I could contact Mountain Electronics and see if he's interested. If Jim (Action LED) is serious about carrying them I won't. Anyone know a status on this?

-Garry


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

Sorry, double post...deleted


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

This is interesting... I got this exact same response from both Dealsmachine and GB after opening tickets. First is asking about combining orders because I forgot something on an order I placed with DealsMachine, and the second asking how long on the BT21 kit from Gearbest:

[Dear christopher，
Thank you for placing your order with us.
I am sorry your order still not been sent out.
The items in your order DDxxxxxxxxx and order DDxxxxxxxxxxx are not in stock now, we can't make sure detail when they will restock. The item supplier told me the item will restock in 3 to 7 business days.
If you can't wait, you can replace for other item, or you can ask for refund if you want.
If you want to replace for other item, you can offer the link of the item you want to replace for to us, so we can check and change the item for you.
We are apologize for any inconvenience that has caused to you.
Best regards
Sylvia
dealsmachine Customer Service]

[Dear Christopher，
Thank you for placing your order with us.
I am sorry your order still not been sent out.
The item in your order WWPxxxxxxxxxxxxxx is not in stock now, we can't make sure detail when it will restock. The item supplier told me the item will restock in 3 to 7 business days.
If you can't wait, you can replace for other item, or you can ask for refund if you want.
If you want to replace for other item, you can offer the link of the item you want to replace for to us, so we can check and change the item for you.
We are apologize for any inconvenience that has caused to you.
Best regards
Sylvia
gearbest Customer Service]

They either have someone else handle their CS questions, or they're part of the same company or are the same company. Anyone know?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Seems like both web shops are operated by the same people - perhaps because of some legal issues, or to simulate "competition" in the eyes of customers...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The "customer service dept" is not in the same building as the main offices. From dealing with our direct rep, the office, cs dept, and warehouse are different locations. I wonder if they use the same cs dept and warehouse. I know their not the same as the bt70 came directly to gearbest main office before anyone but me and them even knew it existed.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I checked my PayPal account and it shows payments going to different places. Also the pricing is totally different depending on what you order. On the BT40 Kit/BT70 light-head/(2)GoPro mounts the final price w/shipping would have been $22 more ordering from GearBest. Not that this means anything, just differences I noted. Even if they end up having the same ownership it looks like it's worth checking out Dealsmachine since this constitutes about 25% in savings (as long as they end up having equal or better shipping performance).
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Very interesting! Probably sub out customer service. 
-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its very common here in the states too. Cs centers may handle many different companies, I worked for one when I was 17-18. Obviously prior to everything being done via email (98-99) but same concept. Via email makes it so 10 people can handle 5 companies worth of customer service. They simply email the customer they work for if needed (or like you see have a set of scripts just like call centers do) and respond.

I dont see it as an "issue" just with a forum and all of our activity it just finally came to light. Each of these "retailers" is probably just office space in a building, orders are sent to warehouse and processed based on each companies specifications.


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## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

After reading this forum I decided to buy a BT21. I have been an avid night cyclist for the past 10yrs and things have changed since my $300+ JetLite Phantom. I am currently rocking a Lezyne Megadrive and Lumina 750 both of which have too narrow beam patterns. 

I may modify this lamp so if anyone has experience with CREE XHP diodes and drivers I would like to collaborate on creating a true 5,000 lumen monster.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

In the BT21 case?


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## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

That would be ideal. I know the XHP 50 is 5x5mm. I'm not sure about the driver.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The XHP50 is a 6v or 12v emitter. That's gonna cut into runtime bigtime. You'd have to run 2 xhp50's in parallel too. XHP50's do use the same optics as XM-L (2)'s (well at least they fit them).

-Garry


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

giantsaam said:


> I would like to collaborate on creating a true 5,000 lumen monster.


Not trying to be a smartash here but, a BT21 case with a couple dozen add-on heatsinks maybe.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Several limitations:

I doubt a driver can even be purchased that will fit the case, even with modifications.

Case wont take the heat for the emitters to be run at even half power.

The battery pack to run it will be much larger/heavier due to higher voltage.

Might be fun to try but overall not really useable. Oh and there is a such thing as too much light


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## guggas (Jan 31, 2011)

You could buy the bt21 and solder it onto the back of a Betty..

Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Oh and there is a such thing as too much light


Really? Have you actually seen that?


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

giantsaam said:


> That would be ideal. I know the XHP 50 is 5x5mm. I'm not sure about the driver.


Let me guess, you are going to use water cooling for that, 2 X XHP50 light, right!


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## guggas (Jan 31, 2011)

Water cooling, now that's an idea. You could run a hose from the water block to your camelback reservoir.

Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

guggas said:


> Water cooling, now that's an idea. You could run a hose from the water block to your camelback reservoir.


Especially handy at winter, as you could have warm drink for free! :thumbsup:


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## Delete (Oct 13, 2015)

I have the bt21 head only on order from GB. I have read up and down on which connector to get for the battery pack. Cant seem tp get a clear statement on this matter. I have decided to order a pack from hunk_lee. But can anyone please advise on which connector to get? 
Thanks ☺


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## Lucky Luciano (Aug 26, 2009)

Do 2S3P or 2S4P battery packs work with this light? The voltage is the same. Can the 2 Amp charger from Nitefighter charge them?

For example A Sanyo Li ion 18650 7 4V 10400mah Battery Pack with PCM 8Cells to 2S4P w Plug | eBay


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Delete said:


> I have the bt21 head only on order from GB. I have read up and down on which connector to get for the battery pack. Cant seem tp get a clear statement on this matter. I have decided to order a pack from hunk_lee. But can anyone please advise on which connector to get?
> Thanks ☺


Hunk Lee can provide Magicshine-type female connectors. His have a threaded connection, but will work without- the fit is pretty close.

You can always improve the connection seal with some heat-shrink tubing. It'll grip on the threads, but slide on and off the other side.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

If the voltage is the same then the pack works. And yes the stock charger works just fine.

Buying lighthead only is better fo people that have packs and chargers, not a good idea to try and sort out all the loose bit, costs you far more. And having to hassle with right connector and such.

As for water proofing:

THE CONNECTOR BETWEEN THE PACKS AND LIGHT DOESNT NEED TO BE WATER PROOF. It doesn't matter. as long as water can't get to protection circuit in pack or inside light head there is NOTHING to worry about.

If there was your car, rc cars etc would never work when it rained.


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## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

We do get rained on from time to time. I've never had any light give me problem with too much heat in fact I had the Lezyne freeze while we were riding in sub 30 temps the battery life was between 30-40 min.


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## Fam Money (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm going to be new to riding at night. I'm looking to ride rail trail and MTB trails. After reading the forums I'm torn on getting 2 BT21s or 1 BT21 and 1 BT40s. Which would you guys suggest? Obviously these will be the kits.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

BT40S bars, BT21 on helmet (modded with LEDDNA 10 degree optics preferably).

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Either one, bt40 just isn't a good helmet light


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## Fam Money (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks guys...I ordered the BT40s/BT21 combo in the video of the first post. I ended up going with Deals Machine cause it saved me about $13 over Gears Best.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Just a word of caution, there is a chance that what you get from dealsmachine ISNT as good as what you see here. Where you ordered from isn't a place we deal with or know much of anything about. And as well known, other Chinese lights though carrying the same brand, when bought from a different company, end up not being the same and being lower quality/performance with the internal components.



That's why we only buy from known and reputable Chinese retailers like gearbest, kaidomain, dx.com and fasttech. Just not worth the hassle just to save a few bucks.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Answer of GB customer service on my missing BT21 for 60+ days.

"
When you placed the order, you didn't pay for the insurance and we can't get any compensation from the shipping company. We also need to dear the loss about this issue. Thus I can provide you the solutions:

(1).We can refund you $10 to your account you used when you placed the order.
(2).We can refund you $12 GB points. 
(3).We can refund you $12 to your GB wallet. 
(4).You can pay $15 for resend and we can resend for you using the registered mail. 
"

Now we are going to have some talk to do.... MOLE how about yours ticket, did you get any answer?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> Answer of GB customer service on my missing BT21 for 60+ days.
> 
> "
> When you placed the order, you didn't pay for the insurance and we can't get any compensation from the shipping company. We also need to dear the loss about this issue. Thus I can provide you the solutions:
> ...


Interesting! At this time Gearbest has not replied to my updated ticket so I guess I'm going to have to try to contact them again. Not sure what the registered option actually means (is this an upgraded shipping?). Maybe we should get all the MTBR members with this problem to send in a group complaint to PayPal? 
Mole


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Registered is just to add tracking # so you can see what's going on with the shippment. 

Never heard of group complaint to PP. Actualy do we know how many off us is still waiting for shippments for about 60 days? Should we make new thread about it so we won't bugg this thread?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> Registered is just to add tracking # so you can see what's going on with the shippment.
> 
> Never heard of group complaint to PP. Actualy do we know how many off us is still waiting for shippments for about 60 days? Should we make new thread about it so we won't bugg this thread?


I left another message on my support ticket and by the time I finished had gotten a response from customer support. My order used the same shipping as yours with no insurance but they offered me a full refund in Gearbest points or in my Gearbest wallet or to just send me another light-head free of charge (but no shipping upgrade). I'm not sure why you got a different offer but I also can't see how they wouldn't do the same for you after offering it to me. If you need any information from me to make your case with Gearbest just PM me and I'll get it to you.
Mole


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

I got my shipment notice for a BT-70 11th of august. Not arrived yet.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Appel said:


> I got my shipment notice for a BT-70 11th of august. Not arrived yet.


Your past your 60 day delivery deadline. Contact Gearbest and start a support ticket if you haven't already done so. They should send you another light. I stayed with their free shipping option since I want to see how long it's going to take for future orders that the expedited option is not cost effective on. We'll see how it goes.
Mole


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## samwe (Jul 27, 2015)

Does anyone else sell Nitefighter lights?
I have two orders in "processing" with them, but am wondering if they will ever ship and some of these posts have me concerned.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

DealsMachine does and they are on back order there too even though the website indicates they are in stock. I ordered two last Thursday and they still haven't shipped. I was told upon inquiry that it would be 3-7 business day before they get them.


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## guggas (Jan 31, 2011)

I gave up and ordered a gloworm a couple days ago, should be in my mail box Saturday. If my Bt21 ever shows up, I'll have a backup/spare

Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya they are all come from the same company, nitefighter is out of stock trying to catch up with orders lol. They obviously didn't plan ahead for night riding season.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

samwe said:


> Does anyone else sell Nitefighter lights?
> I have two orders in "processing" with them, but am wondering if they will ever ship and some of these posts have me concerned.


Yep, reading these complaints has me worried as well. at this point I've just about given up worrying about when my BT70 is going to be showing up. Quite possibly this might not necessarily be an issue with gearbest but with Nitefighter itself. It could be that they are just so swamped with orders that they can't keep up with the demand.

While this is indeed very unfortunate for those who have ordered one of these neutral LED lamps, it should be a wake up call to any bike light company / manufacturer that is trying to sell and market a bike LED lamp. If you don't offer your potential buyers a choice of LED emitter, either cool white or neutral white , you are going to lose out on a very good opportunity to make money if you don't offer a choice of neutral led.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yep, reading these complaints has me worried as well. at this point I've just about given up worrying about when my BT70 is going to be showing up. Quite possibly this might not necessarily be an issue with gearbest but with Nitefighter itself. It could be that they are just so swamped with orders that they can't keep up with the demand.
> 
> While this is indeed very unfortunate for those who have ordered one of these neutral LED lamps, it should be a wake up call to any bike light company / manufacturer that is trying to sell and market a bike LED lamp. If you don't offer your potential buyers a choice of LED emitter, either cool white or neutral white , you are going to lose out on a very good opportunity to make money if you don't offer a choice of neutral led.


Unfortunately I think you are correct in your assumption about your order never showing up. Several of us have already passed our 60 day delivery deadline. Gearbest offered to send me another light free but that doesn't mean they have them to send so who knows how long it will take. Your situation is even worse in the fact you still have to wait till your 60 days are up AND I don't even see the BT70 on Gearbests website anymore (hope this temporary).

On a brighter note, I got my first Dealsmachine order today. Took 8 days from order date to delivery. I got a BT40s kit, a BT70 light-head, 2 Gopro adapters (these won't fit the 40 or 70 without modification), expedited delivery (DHL) and insurance for around $90 which seem llke a good deal to me. Everything look like legit Nitefighter products although I've not tested anything yet. Maybe this is an option for you to get your light if Gearbest is no longer going to stock them.
Mole


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

I also picked free delivery without insurance. The answer from GB is that the parcel is lost and that they can refund 50% of the value (as points) or resend the order if I pay 50% of the original value again. 

I already have too many lights so I think I will sit still for now and take the refund.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Appel said:


> The answer from GB is that the parcel is lost and that they can refund 50% of the value (as points) or resend the order if I pay 50% of the original value again.


50%? If it was me, I'd ask PayPal to step in & arrange full refund in such case...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> 50%? If it was me, I'd ask PayPal to step in & arrange full refund in such case...


(Archie)I agree!

(Appel) If Gearbest is willing to give me a full refund (points or replace light) they should do the same for you. Remember they already have your money and were probably making at least 50% profit on the deal, so offering you 50% back still covers their costs and your still out 50% of the lights value because of their decision to change shipping methods.

Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> 50%? If it was me, I'd ask PayPal to step in & arrange full refund in such case...


I agree. Anyway you put it, this doesn't bode well for Gearbest. I believe they told people their orders shipped when actually they were back ordered. Regardless, they shouldn't be telling people that they can't refund the full amount of their order if the orders haven't been received in a timely manner.

If at some point I still haven't received my order and feel I waited long enough I will get a full refund even if I have to go directly to Paypal or the credit card company. Of course if I have to do that I won't be buying anything else from Gearbest anytime soon.



MRMOLE said:


> ...Your situation is even worse in the fact you still have to wait till your 60 days are up AND* I don't even see the BT70 on Gearbest's website anymore* (hope this temporary).


I checked this myself and you are correct. This tells me that something is wrong at Gearbest and that they are trying to figure out how to fix it. Very bad juju going on here.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> I agree. Anyway you put it, this doesn't bode well for Gearbest. I believe they told people their orders shipped when actually they were back ordered.


I've been thinking the same thing. But then I really wonder what was in that envelop with my address on in the picture that is attached to the order in my account page. It feels a little bit far-fetched that GB should have faked an envelope just to get the shipment notice sent out.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Appel said:


> I've been thinking the same thing. But then I really wonder what was in that envelop with my address on in the picture that is attached to the order in my account page. It feels a little bit far-fetched that GB should have faked an envelope just to get the shipment notice sent out.


Kaidomain did that to me, which is why I haven't ordered from them since. Probably give them another chance at some point but I've had no issue with gearbest YET. Though I use paid shipping options most of the time.


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## benplaut (Oct 25, 2009)

I cancelled an order with them yesterday that has been "processing" for 3 weeks (included those handy gopro adaptors). Got a quick confirmation back, I'll wait to see if the refund shows up on Paypal before counting it as a success.

Still waiting on a final result from my support ticket from weeks and weeks ago... was almost completed but communication dropped over the holiday and I haven't heard since. If they don't follow through, I'll give a shot to fixing it myself; no rush.


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

I recently cancelled an order for a bt21 kit from GB on Wedneday. It's been waiting to be processed since September 20th. Got my refund confirmation from PayPal today. Hopefully all goes well for you on the refund. 
I ended up getting a bt40s kit and a bt21 light head from DealsMachine. Is there any tell tale signs to look for as far as legitimacy of the lights? The packaging for the kit looks pretty legit and all the components for the lighthead were identical to the ones that came in the kit, such as the mounts, o-rings, connector, and extension. Just didn't have the charger, battery and that sweet case.


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## benplaut (Oct 25, 2009)

Huh. Well, they just got back to me (probably coincidence, but good timing). After much back-and-forth, I have no idea what they're sending me (maybe a light head? maybe an emitter board?), but we're making no progress in that discussion so they might as well send it...

whatever a "lampholder" is.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That would be light head, what was the issue with the one you had?


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## benplaut (Oct 25, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> That would be light head, what was the issue with the one you had?


I hope so. There was something about


> In the piture, there are two lights and it is the problem of one of the lights.
> 
> We can send you the one and it can be used after installation.


One of the emitters had a loose contact somewhere, or similar. Only worked when I pressed on the lens.


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

I ordered bunch of Yinding and Nitefighter from GB. Only ones I've received are orders in which I used DHL paid shipping. Unfortunately one of the yindings arrived damaged and it took a bit of emailing to get GB to partial refund me and offer a gift card. Other orders that I've made using free shipping service has never arrived. Great products but at this point I hope GB is able to follow through and be upfront w/ full refunds if they are unable to deliver and non of this partial refund or gift card crap as it holds no value if products never arrive. As it stands they've already lost many of our's trust in purchasing from them.


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

Just wondering, are you guys paying for insurance?


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## nefertari (Apr 8, 2015)

Hey guys... this is Nefertari from GearBest. I'm sorry to know there're so many order problems. (´･_･`)

Well...if there's anything I can help, write to [email protected]. Guess I could help you sort the problems out. (ง •̀_•́)ง


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

NotAnotherHill said:


> Just wondering, are you guys paying for insurance?


From DealsMachine, it was only a couple bucks.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

funnyjr said:


> I ordered bunch of Yinding and Nitefighter from GB. Only ones I've received are orders in which I used DHL paid shipping. Unfortunately one of the yindings arrived damaged and it took a bit of emailing to get GB to partial refund me and offer a gift card. Other orders that I've made using free shipping service has never arrived. Great products but at this point I hope GB is able to follow through and be upfront w/ full refunds if they are unable to deliver and non of this partial refund or gift card crap as it holds no value if products never arrive. As it stands they've already lost many of our's trust in purchasing from them.


I've ordered a bunch of stuff from GB recently. It seems to take about 30 days using free shipping option. I've got most of my stuff now except my BT21 light head and another order for some xmas goodies for the kids.

I ordered the light head the same time a friend of mine ordered the full bt21 kit. The full package arrived last week for my friend.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

For me it's more like 40-45 days for free shipping...


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Looks like gearbest raised the price of light head only to regular price of $40.76. Deals machine still has it for 26.99. 
Anyone actually get light head only shipped or is it out of stock every where? 
I want to order it but kind of concerned these new ones coming out might be of lesser quality then the ones you guys got. Thoughts?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I doubt they'd be lesser quality, actually we had more quality issues in the beginning than we do now. Well as long as we dont see the manufacturer producing different versions for different sellers like has happened with other lights. That is y we say be careful buying elseware. Gearbest will lower price again soon, probably making changes to something.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

And our Rep at Gearbest is on top of things. Price being adjusted for light head. Shes work as fast as she can to get all the other stuff sorted. All the good retailers over there seem to hit a rough patch trying to make changes that end up hurting themselves. At least we have someone that will make the effort to try and get everything fixed and running smoothly again.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> And our Rep at Gearbest is on top of things. Price being adjusted for light head. Shes work as fast as she can to get all the other stuff sorted. All the good retailers over there seem to hit a rough patch trying to make changes that end up hurting themselves. At least we have someone that will make the effort to try and get everything fixed and running smoothly again.


Any word on when they will be in stock again?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I've got permission to quote Nefertari statement about shipping issues we have with some Gearbest products. She said:

"*It effect the shipping that the warehouse was moving to another place and there're too much parcels that waited to be shipped out after the long time holiday.*"

If you are not satisfied with slow or bad response from their customer service you can contact her directly with order number and description of the problem. She gave me permission to publish her direct email address:

"*[email protected]*"

As of my problem BT21 not showing up for more than 60 days since suposedly shipped. They resent it by Sweden Post with tracking. it took about week to communicate about the whole stuff, but I'm very glad it has been resent regardles some strange offerings from their CS stuff.

So it looks like GB is willing to correct the situation.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

FYI - my package with backordered items (ordered Sept 24th): they agreed to ship what they did have in stock and ship the rest when it does come in stock. One of the items that is backordered is the Nitefighter GoPro adapter! I ordered that the day it was posted here! 

-Garry


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

I just canceled my order for my BT21 from GB…. was waiting 3 weeks and they still had no idea as to when they'd receive them. 

So it looks like Deal Machine has the same kit in stock for a couple bucks more…. guess I'll go that route. 

Anyone have bad luck with Deal Machine and/or their products?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Just did a quick search on BLF and it was mentioned (without certainty though) that Deals Machine = GearBest. FWIW. 

-Garry


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## guggas (Jan 31, 2011)

How does one go about cancelling an order on GB? I don't see the option on their website.

Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

You have to contact them directly. Not sure what's going on with nitefighter but its disheartening!!! They were showing such promise!


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> You have to contact them directly. Not sure what's going on with nitefighter but its disheartening!!! They were showing such promise!


Maybe a production issue with real bad timing? Hopefully they get it all sorted. Seems like a great kit.


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

garrybunk said:


> Just did a quick search on BLF and it was mentioned (without certainty though) that Deals Machine = GearBest. FWIW.
> 
> -Garry


I suspected that. Too many odd coincidences. One of them being that they are the only 2, that I'm aware of, that sell the identical GoPro adapter, and they appeared on both sights around the same time.


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## KanPanic (May 22, 2007)

pwu_1 said:


> Any word on when they will be in stock again?


They messaged me Monday saying they were back in stock and my order would ship in 3-4 business days.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

so I went on a night ride last night with a BT40s on the handlebar and a KD2(neutral white) modded with the LEDDNA 10 degree optics.
I really liked the combo even with the different color tint.
However, reading all these glowing reviews about the BT21 using the 10 degree optics has me really interested in the light. 
My question is, is the BT21 really that much better than the kd2 light? If I'm pretty happy with my existing setup, will getting the BT21 blow me away or will it just be a slight upgrade?


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

pwu_1 said:


> If I'm pretty happy with my existing setup, will getting the BT21 blow me away or will it just be a slight upgrade?


No, you will not be blown away. I also really like the programmable interface on the KD2 light. Keep use that one until it breaks. That is my recommendation.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Kd2 is about the same as a yinding (just poor case design) except programmable driver. Bt21 wont "Blow you away" compared to kd2 but it is noticeably brighter on max, But its also heavier.

Im not a fan of the kd2 (have one) vs my yindings (have 2) but the programmable driver is nice so I put it in one of my yindings.

I'd say if you like it, ride it till the kd2 fails then replace. 

And your tint issue is probably the rosy tint to the outer edge. Some use 3D tint instead of 3or 4C. The color temps are the same though which is why the tints still work well together.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

DustyTrail said:


> I just canceled my order for my BT21 from GB&#8230;. was waiting 3 weeks and they still had no idea as to when they'd receive them.
> 
> So it looks like Deal Machine has the same kit in stock for a couple bucks more&#8230;. guess I'll go that route.
> 
> Anyone have bad luck with Deal Machine and/or their products?


Nope their web page lies. I have had the kit on order since 10-8-15 which at that time it said that it ships in 24 hours. I called them out on it after not receiving a tracking number by 10-13-15. At that time I was told that it was out of stock and it would be another 3-7 business days before they would have it. Their website has shown it to be "in stock" every day. I am about to cancel my order since it has now been 7 business days from my inquiry and it has not shipped. I guess I'm gonna order a Xeccon Spiker 1210 from fleebay. At least it is in stock and ships from California. I hope it is a neutral white light.


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## Psycho1 (Aug 26, 2014)

I ordered a xeccon light set from mtbrevolution. Com and had them in 3 business days. I did pay for the expedite shipping. Love these lights alot.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Psycho1 said:


> I ordered a xeccon light set from mtbrevolution. Com and had them in 3 business days. I did pay for the expedite shipping. Love these lights alot.


Which one did you get?


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## Psycho1 (Aug 26, 2014)

The 1211 plus 900 combo. http://www.mtbrevolution.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20&product_id=254 the handle bar light even had a nice remote


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## Psycho1 (Aug 26, 2014)




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## guggas (Jan 31, 2011)

I just got a shipping confirmation email from GB for the bt21 kit. Ordered on Oct. 1st. Free shipping + insurance

Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

I read further back that Carclo optics are drop in, good to go. I can't find where it was mentioned i can get those. Anyone know? Has anyone tried the Fasttech ones? I got the ones for xm-l emitters, 20mm... They sit a good bit higher than the stock optic with the o ring in. I also noticed that the diameter of the opening where the emitter sits is larger on the stock piece than the replacement. Is this normal? This is the one I got

https://www.fasttech.com/products/1606/10002020/1187501-20mm-15-degree-optical-lensoptic-for-cree-xm-l-led


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ledsupply.com sells Carclo optics, but it's been said they aren't very good. You want the 10 degree optics with the white holders (which you remove) found here:

https://m.fasttech.com/products/160...-12-6mm-pmma-optical-lens-for-cree-xm-l-t5-t6

Or order them from Leddna.com:

10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA

See my posts a few pages back with pics and descriptions of what I had to do to get them to fit (it's expected that no two lights are the same so YMMV).

-Garry


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## fatboy66 (Mar 3, 2007)

I am going to pull the trigger for a new lamp for on the bars. Which one should i take?
The niterider BT 21 or the BT 40?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Bt40, but also depends on what you have on your helmet.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Here's how I did it:

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...2x-xm-l2-nw-light-965949-29.html#post12227276

More on that page


SwampyC said:


> I read further back that Carclo optics are drop in, good to go. I can't find where it was mentioned i can get those. Anyone know? Has anyone tried the Fasttech ones? I got the ones for xm-l emitters, 20mm... They sit a good bit higher than the stock optic with the o ring in. I also noticed that the diameter of the opening where the emitter sits is larger on the stock piece than the replacement. Is this normal? This is the one I got
> 
> https://www.fasttech.com/products/1...15-degree-optical-lensoptic-for-cree-xm-l-led


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Here's how I did it:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...2x-xm-l2-nw-light-965949-29.html#post12227276
> 
> More on that page


Was there actually an increase in throw? I ask because I eventually figured out why those optics I got sat so high... It was actually the little white rings. I remembered reading that those were removed. So I did that and got the piece to sit against the top of the emitter base. But after putting it back together, I noticed both a drop in output on any given level and a decrease in throwing distance. This was visibly noticeable, not measured. Maybe I did something wrong.
Because I had to shave part of the optic to get it to fit with the o ring, is it possible that I took the emitter too far out of the focal point of the optic?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I didn't modify my optics at all, I just removed the white housing. I used the little white rings the BT21 came with. 
I had to remove the 0-rings around the optics, but sealed them up with silicone.

I would say the throw is better now. I only changed 1 optic, and if I cover one the throw is better, the other has better flood. It's not drastic.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Swampy, you used the 15deg which isn't bad but you need to file the legs down on it first. Or just cut them off. The optics.some of us are how using for helmet are the 10deg ones from leddna that come it white holders.

Iirc these are the exact same ones https://www.fasttech.com/products/1...-12-6mm-pmma-optical-lens-for-cree-xm-l-t5-t6


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

Thanks for the recommendations. I'm gonna order a set of the 10deg optics and give them a go. I agree in that the bt21 is a fantastic helmet light... If only it had a little more throw on some of the more open trails. Works great out of the box on twisty/technical singletrack cause the throw on it is still pretty impressive for how "floody" it is.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well speaking of more throw for a bt21....

About to install XP-L HI emitters in one of mine. Should be a pretty big throw increase.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Doh! I was about to post up about trying XP-l HI emitters in one! Definitely want to hear how this turns out.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Be ready later tonight, already have them reflowed onto noctigons, got v2 3c and had noctigons left over from getting new g2 s3 emitters for bt40s.

This one is the one I fried the driver in (my own stupidity for those new to the thread, not drivers fault), have a custom driver going in it. If you saw my thread in DIY, I have a new driver with same program as my new light head driver and uses normal momentary switch.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, be afraid, be very afraid 

I have successfully found a solution. However you have to find pcbs that fit stock housing (I machined mine to fit noctigons). Xp-l hi on LEDDNA 10deg has a very nice tighter spot and really nice throw upgrade!!!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

But how's the flood/spill? And where are the beamshots dangit!

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

My phone was about dead and my git1 camera is dead (gotta remember to charge it tonight). 

I put it up next to my yinding with xp-l v6 and other bt21 on xm-l2. All with same optics. Yinding and other bt21 look about the same. This newly modded one the spill is decreased, spit size decreased probably 15% and far brighter spot.

I'll get beam shots tonight hopefully.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK here you go garry:

XP-L V6 3C or XM-L2 U2 3C (XP-L v6 is slightly brighter but hard to detect with camera so the same) @ 3A with 10deg optics:



BT21 at 3A with XP-L HI (v2 3c)



Notice the Tree (about 100 feet out give or take) is much more illuminated.

Heres the 2 side by side, the new bt21 is the beam on the right side:


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks Tig! It actually seems like less difference than I expected and not enough difference to justify me modding to XP-L HI's. Is your first photo much different than stock BT21 emitters? (I'm guessing not). 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nope its about the same, just a hair brighter than stock set up is all.


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## UpRocks (Jun 24, 2004)

Does anyone know if the driver in the BT21 will handle a 12v input?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lights only handle the voltage their rated for. They build these for bikes, not for cars


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## UpRocks (Jun 24, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Lights only handle the voltage their rated for. They build these for bikes, not for cars




I have some 3S batt packs. I have used these packs to run a 2 XML build with a 1A BuckPuck rated for an input range of 5-32v. It's an older build, but I still have the 3S packs.

Do you know if the driver in the BT21 will handle the 12.xV input voltage?

I skimmed the thread and didn't find an answer...not surprising as there are lots of 2S2P packs out there. I just happen to have some different ones.

-uprocks


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Most bike lights are built for their specific voltage. After market drivers (I have a couple custom built drivers that will run 3s packs) often have a wider voltage range but these dont. I honestly dont know of any 8.4v mass produced bike light that stock will take the extra voltage above their rated voltage.


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## UpRocks (Jun 24, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> ...these dont.


Thank you. Exactly what I needed. I'll pursue some other options.

-uprocks


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

The drivers in the Chinese lights are built as cheaply as possible. That means they use components the are just in spec for the design voltage and current, or sometimes slightly below spec.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

FYI. Just got info from Nefertari from GB they are going to stock next 200 pcs of BT21 on 6th Nov (or there about). 

So if anyone has missing shippment (like me) they should been able to resend them. I have to wait another 3 weeks for my second BT21 order to pass 60 day company policy.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm, I wonder how many total BT21's & BT40S's Gearbest has sold and how many of those is due to people finding them recommended here on MTBR.

-Garry


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Hmm, I wonder how many total BT21's & BT40S's Gearbest has sold and how many of those is due to people finding them recommended here on MTBR.
> 
> -Garry


Count me for 1 of each, I would not have known about them or GearBest if not for MTBR.


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## ben.marshall (Oct 17, 2014)

Hello! 

New to the thread but have been following for a while! I received one BT21 last month and being impressed ordered a second one.

I contact Nefertari last week and she suggested that stock were due on the 7th Nov. I had also had a support ticket out which had been ignored at this point.

2 days after contacting Nefertari the support ticket was answered apologising for the delay and saying my package was now ready for shipping. Later that day my order went from processing to shipped and I got a picture of the package.

The tracking information is not currently showing anything, and from the information we have the BT21 won't be in stock for another week. Do you think GB are simply lying to me about shipping the light, or have they managed to somehow find on for me?


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

What they are doing is unclear! I've gotten multiple shipments from them for orders placed before and after my bt21 lighthead order. Everything but the lighthead has shown up. The tracking number they gave me was for something to another country so it's crap. They are ignoring my support ticket as well.


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## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

I ordered a bt21 on 10/13.
They're ignoring my support ticket too.


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

I thought about ordering another light head. Noticed it's not on either DealsMachine's or Gearbest's site right now, just the full kit.


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## blkqi (Oct 15, 2015)

FWIW I received my BT21 and BT40S kits plus GoPro adapters from DealsMachine in 3 days via DHL. Actually they arrived a day early (this Monday), but DHL held it. Couldn't be happier with the service or quality. Excellent lights for the price.


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## blkqi (Oct 15, 2015)

FWIW I received by BT21 and BT40S kits plus GoPro adapters from DealsMachine in 3 days via DHL. Actually the package was a day early (this Monday), but DHL held it until the expected delivery. Couldn't be happier with the product or service - I'm sorry to hear this isn't universal.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Have to pay for DHL is the issue, most wont, they use free shipping and that's were the problems seem to occur.


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## juergenor (Mar 30, 2004)

I am one of the many customers that ordered a BT21 and never received the light. How did you guys resolve this dispute - needles to say that the offer from Gearbest (8$ refund) is unacceptable.


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## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> Have to pay for DHL is the issue, most wont, they use free shipping and that's were the problems seem to occur.


I paid for the expedited shipping with DHL.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I ordered both the 21 and the 40 from Gearbest on 10/20.
I paid the whopping $1.45 expedite/delivery charge.
The 40 is on it's way via DHL and is in OH now with a scheduled delivery to MA tomorrow.
The 21 is b/o'd with a ship date of 11/6 ( according to the email shipping confirmation)
I'm always amazed at people's different experience with the same vendor.


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## ben.marshall (Oct 17, 2014)

Update:

So today my tracking has gone from not having the parcel, to delivered. It's at my partners work so will have to wait till this evening to see what has actually arrived, but it may be that GB have actually had some stock back in!


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## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

So Gearbest is trying...
They did respond to my ticket, just not via email. Responses can be found by logging into their site and doing some digging around.
The gist of my response was that the bt21 kit was a "hot sale" I guess that's chenglish for popular item. Will be back in stock in "5-15 days". I'll wait as the other options they suggested were pretty lame.
Also, Nefertari from GB is on it, watching this thread. She PM'ed me shortly after one of my last posts offering to help.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

1st ride with bt21 stock on the bars and bt21 w/gloworm spot optics on the helmet. 
I really like this set up.


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## roy harley (May 8, 2004)

.......................


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## juergenor (Mar 30, 2004)

juergenor said:


> I am one of the many customers that ordered a BT21 and never received the light. How did you guys resolve this dispute - needles to say that the offer from Gearbest (8$ refund) is unacceptable.


Interesting - now they are offering a full refund after I filed a complaint through PayPal. Curious to see how this will work out.


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## ben.marshall (Oct 17, 2014)

Second update:

My light has arrived (ordered 4th October), looks much the same as the first one but with a slightly different connector for the battery. Battery connector must be slightly different as well as when paired up as delivered I get a tight fit between light unit and battery, but if I swap the batteries the fit is quite loose. Other than that looks like a new kit so there is some hope for the rest of you as well!


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Good news ben….. thanks for sharing! 

Say, What helmet mounts are you guys using for your bt21's???


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

DustyTrail said:


> Good news ben&#8230;.. thanks for sharing!
> 
> Say, What helmet mounts are you guys using for your bt21's???


I'm just using the one that it came with.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

RESPONSE TO MY EMAIL ASKING WHEN MY LIGHT WILL SHIP. ORDERED 1 WEEK AGO. JUST CONCERNED BASED ON WHAT YOU ALL HAVE BEEN SAYING..

Many thanks for your inquiry．

We are deeply sorry to tell you that your item--(Nitefighter BT21 2 Cree XM L2 1800Lm 5 Modes LED Bike Light) is not in stock.

Because the item is so popular, and the supplier need some time to produce.

And the exact supply time depend on the supplier. 

Could you please wait for around 15 business days?

We have three options

(1).If you would like to wait, we will ship for you as soon as they are in stock.

(2).We can help you to exchange the item, could you please tell me the SKU (item number), the full name or the URL link of the new item.

It is recommended that you choose the items which are marked that can be shipped within 3-5 business days.

(3).We can help you to cancel the order and refund you to your account. 

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience that may have been caused and we look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks for your understanding and support.

Best Regards

Gentry


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## SwampyC (Oct 7, 2015)

DustyTrail said:


> Say, What helmet mounts are you guys using for your bt21's???


Don't know if you guys caught this earlier in the thread, but a couple people have had the stock base break. Just an FYI so you're not caught in a bad spot while out on a ride. Mine broke on the first ride after catching a low branch. The screw pulled through the mount. 
A lot of guys have been using a GoPro adapter with various Gopro helmet mount options to mount them. I'm still waiting on my mounts and adapters from DealsMachine. There is a user on here that also machines, from others' feedback as I don't personally own one, some really nice ones... Vancbiker, I think.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Here's a couple of different GoPro mounts I have. I highly recommend the Vancbiker mount (attached to light-head in pic.). Very strong and reduces operating temperatures by about 15° (looks good too!). The black mount you can get at Dealsmachine/Gearbest. I've been using this one on a BT40 and BT70 but it will also fit he BT21. I've only had this one about 2 weeks and it looks a bit lightweight so I'm not sure how well it will hold up.
Mole


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## Viva Borracho (Aug 8, 2007)

I am overall very pleased with this light, but has anyone had problems with the charger?

Mine doesn't seem to fully charge the battery and the light on the charger has started flashing between green and orange.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Viva Borracho said:


> I am overall very pleased with this light, but has anyone had problems with the charger?
> 
> Mine doesn't seem to fully charge the battery and the light on the charger has started flashing between green and orange.


My chargers do that too but if I leave them plugged in they will eventually show a solid green light and be fully charged.
Mole


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

*Similar delays with this light, but things may be looking up?*

I ordered my light on 10/12 and there was a long quiet period before I finally extracted a response from the folks at Gearbest. Their email was similar to Gentry's. Yesterday there was some movement in that the tracking# for my order indicates my shipment is enroute from Shenzhen to Kentucky. A strange route to get to NorCal, but at least it'll be in the US.

Fingers crossed there'll be some update soon.

-Jason


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## NotAnotherClimb (Dec 16, 2014)

Viva Borracho said:


> I am overall very pleased with this light, but has anyone had problems with the charger?
> 
> Mine doesn't seem to fully charge the battery and the light on the charger has started flashing between green and orange.


Yes, the charger that came with my BT40s will only show a green light, even if the battery is half dead.


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## Fam Money (Apr 26, 2010)

Here is my experience so far with DealsMachine and ordering both the BT40s and BT21:

1. Ordered on 10/14. Payed for expedited shipping and insurance per the shipping mishaps noted in this thread. Plus I wanted them as fast and cheaply as possible.

2. 10/22 Order still showed processing so I opened up a ticket asking for update.

3. 10/23 Got a reply from Eunice:


> Thanks for contacting dealsmachine.
> 
> We are extremely sorry to keep you waiting so long.
> 
> ...


4. 10/26 Shipment picked up in China.

5. 10/28 Package delivered to me in Pennsylvania. DHL super fast. Didn't notice in the shipment email that only the 40s was shipped. Damn.

6. 10/30 Got an email that the BT21 was shipped. Checking the DHL tracking number the label was generated on 10/28 but has yet to be picked up. DHL says it will be picked up in Singapore.

Now the waiting game begins for the BT21. The BT40s I got from DM seems solid. Is it the exact same model as the one sold by GB...don't know but it seems legit. I wonder how long until I get the 21.

Anyway, thanks again to you bike light nerds for providing us the info needed to make a sound light purchase!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

DHL is really slow to update on that end. Usually takes (and remember their ahead of the states) 1-2 days before DHL grabs it. So figure they'll pick it up Sunday night (US time) and you'll have it Wednesday unless your in a really remote location.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Here you go garry, maybe itll make you think about the emitter change in the Yinding 

Signs and tree line, about 180 ft:



Camera barely got this one, but if you look closely there is a path going up the hill all the way out in the right side of the beam, 350+ ft:



Ill try to remember to go get the same shots after its had a couple days to dry out around here (rained all last night and first half of today)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

So Tig, are you saying those photos are a Yinding modded with XP-L's? Looks pretty good, but hard to compare without stock side by side.

-Garry


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I ordered both a 21 and a 40 from Gearbest on 10/20, recvd a email 2 days later saying the 40 was shipping and the 21 is b/o'd...and recvd the 40 on the 29th.

Woke up this morning to a email from Gearbest saying they don't see the 21 being in stock anytime soon and I should pick something else or get a refund.


Hmmmm. Seeing I am pretty underwhelmed with the 40....I will probably just cancel


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No that's the bt21 again. I mentioned yinding because the emitters can be changed without mods.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

the mayor said:


> I ordered both a 21 and a 40 from Gearbest on 10/20, recvd a email 2 days later saying the 40 was shipping and the 21 is b/o'd...and recvd the 40 on the 29th.
> 
> Woke up this morning to a email from Gearbest saying they don't see the 21 being in stock anytime soon and I should pick something else or get a refund.
> 
> Hmmmm. Seeing I am pretty underwhelmed with the 40....I will probably just cancel


Underwhelmed with the BT40 is pretty much my reaction too. It's a very nice light but it needs a little more power and a lot more throw for my needs (on trails I run mine on turbo always). Underwhelmed is definitely not how I feel about my BT21. Using Gloworm optics (XS spot) it out-performs my GW X2V3.1 in bounce and center-beam lux tests and has a wider beam. Using Gloworm wide angle (Elliptical) optics it has more throw (35% better center-beam lux), more overall power (30% more bounce test lux), and a wider beam (far sooner obstical recognition when cornering) compared to the BT40. Since we have a similar opinion on the BT40 I'm guessing my BT21 opinion is likely to match what you might think of it. I just didn't want you to give up on the BT21 based on your BT40 experience. Of course if you can't get one this all means nothing but I should be getting one from Gearbest in the next few days so there are some out there. I'm guessing Gearbest has used up their newest supply to satisfy previous orders (ordered mine 8/12). Don't know how long you'd have to wait so all I can say is while I didn't like the almost 3 mo. delivery time if I only had 1 BT21 and couldn't get another for 3 mo. I'd still order it cause I like the light that much.
Mole

(answering your question from the BT40 thread - BT40 runtime on turbo w/stock battery was 3 hours 12 min. in a test I did a couple of weeks ago)


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Thanks for your reply, MRMOLE.
I am running a SS x2 on the helmet....which, on high, washes out the BT40.
I wonder if my tri clone on the bars will wash out the BT21 on the helmet.
I do like the neutral white in some trail sections....others not so much.
Depends on dirt /rock color, leaf cover and whether it's wet


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

the mayor;12286451 said:


> Thanks for your reply, MRMOLE.
> I am running a SS x2 on the helmet....which, on high, washes out the BT40.
> I wonder if my tri clone on the bars will wash out the BT21 on the helmet.
> I do like the neutral white in some trail sections....others not so much.
> ...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mole covered what I was about to post. Mixing the 2 doesn't work well at all. Cool white will always wash out neutral white because of the glare created off everything by cool white emitters. As they already wash out details and colors already, you loose the warmer tint from the other light, so just looks like the neutral white light isn't even there though the trail section their both pointing is being lit far brighter than one light alone.



There's a whole long technical definition and explanation behind it all. But when it comes to it, like everything its a preference matter for tint. Just keep in mind that for lumens output, they are the same or being NW lights are newer, NW lights are putting out more lumens in some cases. Just doesn't "look like it". And the reflectors in the ssx2 will make it look brighter because the bt40 uses optics with a much wider beam pattern. Beam pattern will make a light look brighter or dimmer though the lumen output is the sane either way.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> No that's the bt21 again. I mentioned yinding because the emitters can be changed without mods.


Hmm . . . Good idea about trying the XPL-HI's in the Yinding. May put that on my todo list.

About the BT40S being underwhelming, I don't think it's underwhelming when you look at that nice wide even flood of light. And it gives great runtime stock. I do think it's current output would have been nicer to have higher in stock form for a little more umph in Turbo.

-Garry


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> About the BT40S being underwhelming, I don't think it's underwhelming when you look at that nice wide even flood of light. And it gives great runtime stock. I do think it's current output would have been nicer to have higher in stock form for a little more umph in Turbo.
> 
> -Garry


Calling that weak output "turbo" is pretty sad.
Ir could use a LOT more umph....
I can't picture running it below "turbo" in the woods.
If it were stronger....I would be happy. But it's not.
I would rate the "turbo" to be a little dimmer than my tri clone on med....which is 2 leds running.
The 40 has some nice features.....but output isn't one of them.

And yes...I know running NW and Cw isn't a great combo.
I might wait to see if the 21 ever shows and see how they pair together
It's always good to have a extra light or 2


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Can't compare apples and oranges and expect to be happy 



Back on topic kids lol.

@ garry, dont forget the butterfly spacers to hold the optics up where they belong or u get funky rings.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Is it possible that the mayor's BT40 has an issue that is making it have an abnormally low output?


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## roy harley (May 8, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Calling that weak output "turbo" is pretty sad.
> Ir could use a LOT more umph....
> I can't picture running it below "turbo" in the woods.
> If it were stronger....I would be happy. But it's not.
> ...


On the BT21 and the BT40. Do both of these lights run at 7.4 V or 8.4 V batteries? I am not sure if that matters as far as light output?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

7.4 and 8.4 batteries are the same thing. 7.4V is the nominal voltage and 8.4V is the voltage fresh off the charger. The 8.4 drops pretty quickly under load.


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## roy harley (May 8, 2004)

thanks, It was a bit confusing to me in the product descriptions, but that makes sense that they would be 8.4V


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> Is it possible that the mayor's BT40 has an issue that is making it have an abnormally low output?


I was starting to think the same thing. I also just realized this is the BT21 thread....but, found MRMOLE's bounce test numbers in the BT40 thread and replied there


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> ....About the BT40S being underwhelming, I don't think it's underwhelming when you look at that nice wide even flood of light. And it gives great runtime stock. I do think it's current output would have been nicer to have higher in stock form for a little more umph in Turbo....-Garry


I agree. BT40S lights up an area just a little over a hundred feet. As a thrower it sucks but as a bar lamp it lights up the stuff in front of the bike very well. Since I usually ride with a helmet lamp in combo the helmet lamp is my thrower and supplies any needed throw for faster sections.

It amazes me to read that someone would feel the need to run it on turbo full time. I only run turbo for the fastest sections otherwise I find medium is good for normal riding on slower less technical sections.

It's been a while since I've taken a mountain bike ride. A couple weeks ago I bought a new pair of glasses and I'm surprised at how much better I can see with the new prescription. It's going to be interesting to see how well I can see on trails when I finally get a good night ride in. Right now I feel like I'm seeing everything in HD as compared to my old glasses.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Or maybe your new goggles will let you see what a weak light the BT40 is


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Hope this was a joke.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Im thinking someone actually needs their eyes checked, in all honesty their finding cool white leds cause eye damage.

I am wanting to see beam shots done correctly comparing his other lights, im curious.


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## Doedrums (Mar 7, 2010)

I ordered a BT21 and BT40 set up on October 8th and the 40 showed up on the 30th and the 21 arrived today. I tried the 40 out on a group ride Friday night and everybody there was very impressed with the performance. Even more so when I told them how much it cost. I don't see how anyone can say it has poor output. Looking forward to putting the 21 on my helmet and going for another run.


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## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

Mine showed up today. It looks like a nice light, but doesn't work.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Im thinking someone actually needs their eyes checked, in all honesty their finding cool white leds cause eye damage.


Really? cool white leds cause eye damage?
Really?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

giantsaam said:


> Mine showed up today. It looks like a nice light, but doesn't work.


Hahahhaha! My birthday candle BT40 is starting to come apart....3 rd ride.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya seriously, google it. These high power emitters in general can but due to the amount of "radiation" as they term it being reflected back off objects from cool white leds (some articles even mentioned cool white headlights) can damage the eyes. They do mess with your eyes, some people are more sensitive than others, so I can believe its possible. 

But I meant it more to harass you


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Ya seriously, google it.
> 
> But I meant it more to harass you


Kid....you are really making a fool of yourself.
But keep going. It's entertainment gold.


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## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

After some troubleshooting it looks like a faulty connector. I may make my own.


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

Update on my BT21. Ordered: 10/12, delivered 11/2. I threw the battery on the charger and fired it up. I'm quite happy with the product and can't wait to get it out on the road/trail.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Got an attempted delivery card from USPS in my mail box today. Tracking #'s match my Gearbest (BT21) order so it looks like I'll finally get my light (ordered 8/12).
Mole


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## Smilely (Oct 14, 2011)

My buddy ordered two BT21s (one for me) on 10/13, so hearing that others orders are starting to arrive, is giving me hope we will get them before too long.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

MRMOLE said:


> Got an attempted delivery card from USPS in my mail box today. Tracking #'s match my Gearbest (BT21) order so it looks like I'll finally get my light (ordered 8/12).


What? Are you saying the original order is coming or is it resent one?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

the mayor said:


> Kid....you are really making a fool of yourself.
> 
> But keep going. It's entertainment gold.


Wow, and that answers about every question the rest of us here were asking trying to figure out what was going in with your light.

I'll be nice beyond that, but please take your trolling somewhere else where you may have actual knowledge of the products your trolling over

Thank you and have a nice day.

Now back to our regularly schedules programming: Nitefighter lights are finally being delivered!!!


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

After you reach certain age, being called a kid is a compliment lol. Also being ID'd when you buy alcohol is a compliment and when they don't ask I am disappointed now.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> What? Are you saying the original order is coming or is it resent one?


It's the resent one. Did you get yours yet?
Mole


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

MRMOLE said:


> It's the resent one. Did you get yours yet?
> Mole


Mine resent one might be here in a few days. Will let you know....


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

OK now that the BT21 are arriving i'm going to assume the one my mother ordered for my birthday later this month has arrived. I have a BT40s that just arrived for my bars and i'll be using the BT21 on my helmet. What optics do I need to order to make this a proper helmet light? I'm sure the answer is somewhere in the thread but 39 pages is alot to read thru. Also since, i'm new to the light game are there any instructions for changing out the optics? Wouldn't want to jack one up seeing how it would take a fair amount of time to get a replacement.

Excited to have my first set of lights. Been on a few night rides but with friends borrowed setups.

Thanks


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

Big Fil said:


> OK now that the BT21 are arriving i'm going to assume the one my mother ordered for my birthday later this month has arrived. I have a BT40s that just arrived for my bars and i'll be using the BT21 on my helmet. What optics do I need to order to make this a proper helmet light? I'm sure the answer is somewhere in the thread but 39 pages is alot to read thru. Also since, i'm new to the light game are there any instructions for changing out the optics? Wouldn't want to jack one up seeing how it would take a fair amount of time to get a replacement.
> 
> Excited to have my first set of lights. Been on a few night rides but with friends borrowed setups.
> 
> Thanks


*Go to this page and start reading* http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...2x-xm-l2-nw-light-965949-21.html#post12136346
*Here's the mod page *
Nitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light - Page 20- Mtbr.com


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## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

I chopped the extension cord they sent with the light and re soldered it to the battery pack leads. All good and ready to test tonight.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Big Fil said:


> Also since, i'm new to the light game are there any instructions for changing out the optics? Wouldn't want to jack one up seeing how it would take a fair amount of time to get a replacement.
> 
> Thanks


Beware that each light seems to have its unique quirks with optic fit. It's up to you whether or not you keep the white holder or go without it (white holder comes with the 10 degree optics bought from LEDDNA or FastTech).

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry had little issues triming to male the white holders fit, others of us have to leave it out or cut it way down to use them.0.25mm machining difference between cases is enough to decide whether its a pain or not. Easiest is to ditch white rings on stock, ditch white holders and just go. Work 99% as good.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> Mine resent one might be here in a few days. Will let you know....


 I picked up the light-head today! High winds tonight so I didn't get to ride but I ran it through some lux tests and it performs very similar to my original (I always worry about spec. changes with the Chinese). So another BT21 delivered. Keep them coming Gearbest/Dealsmachine.
Mole


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Guys, what optics/lenses do you recommend for a long throw without blinding incoming traffic. I'm ordering and planning to use the BT21 in the bars for the road. Unless you guys disapprove the bt21 for road.
Yesterday I did a ride with my SolarStorm X2 for the first time in the road, and I felt I was blinding people.


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## guggas (Jan 31, 2011)

Got my BT21 yesterday ordered Oct 1st. I haven't taken it on the trail yet; playing around with it in the back yard it seems as good as my gloworm x2...that cost alot more.

Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

OK thanks for the info guys that helps. Got out on my first real ride with the BT40s last night and improvised a helmet mount for a 4Sevens Quark123 Turbo flashlight. While the mixed color temperatures was not optimal the neutral tint on the BT40s was everything I was hoping for and the setup worked very well. I've gone on a few night rides before with a friends old HID light and then more recently with his Lights in Motion Seca lights and while there was plenty of light, I never felt comfortable due to feeling like i couldn't judge the size of objects well. Trails I knew like the back of my hand were foreign and couldn't judge the size of objects in our very rocky trails. Not a good feeling when coming through rocky sections hot. With the warmer color tint I felt like I could judge objects much better to the point where I was able to just ride normally and loose. Best thing is it'll only be better when I get the BT21 on the helmet.
Now i'm stoked on the riding part of night riding as opposed to just going for the fun of hanging out with the crew.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Still waiting on mine from 9/14 to show up. .


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Are you guys getting status emails from Gearbest?
I get them....often with conflicting info....every couple of days.

The latest says the BT21 will be instock mid Nov and will ship.


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

I actually just got a notice last night that my light was shipping. Thing is, it arrived 2 days ago.

@ljracer: I'm not sure if it made any difference but filing a question on their web/orders page and posting here both yielded a response from the GearBest folks. Whether that 'unstuck' my order or not is speculation, but they were apologetic, responsive, and eventually shipped the light. Worth a shot, if you haven't inquired on their website/orders page.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Today I've finaly got my first BT21. This is the resent one instead of lost which I've purchased on 12th Aug. So at the end it took almost 3 months to get what I was payed for. Gearbest handled it OK. It took long time, anoying, but stil much better than not getting anything.

Now I'm waiting to pass 60 days for the next one purchased on Sep 18. Two weeks more to go.....


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

b0bg said:


> I actually just got a notice last night that my light was shipping. Thing is, it arrived 2 days ago.
> 
> @ljracer: I'm not sure if it made any difference but filing a question on their web/orders page and posting here both yielded a response from the GearBest folks. Whether that 'unstuck' my order or not is speculation, but they were apologetic, responsive, and eventually shipped the light. Worth a shot, if you haven't inquired on their website/orders page.


I did both and was contacted. I got the check your post office and wait response.

It's not at the post office so i'm stuck waiting the 60 days. Good news is Im almost there.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, update on xp-l hi mod.

Was spot lighting deer with it at like 3am (major tragedy for me yesterday, couldn't sleep so I rode till 4am). They were a good 200ft or more away, lit them up quite well on turbo, high was plenty enough to see them ok.

Im going to reassemble my stock one and compare the 2 just for giggles.

One thing ive noticed is that with the custom driver and xp-l hi's it runs ALOT cooler. If im moving it handles 3.5A like stock did on turbo. And its nothing more than a MTN MAX 17mm driver modified. NCR18650GA in the fenix case on high is 2hrs run time no problem, 1.5 is my guess there.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

How are these comparing in output to the original x2 solarstorms? I need a bar light (may use SSx2 on bar). But I also have to buy 4 lights for team members. I was going to get them xt40 but they are out of stock every where, hence looking at the BT21


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Bt21 is alot better as far as output. And better for a bar light than ssx2 as bt21 uses optics.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Bt21 is alot better as far as output. And better for a bar light than ssx2 as bt21 uses optics.


Tigris, what optics do you recommend for road riding with the bt21 on the bars ?


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

I see that the light head only is no longer an option on the Gearbest website.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

the mayor said:


> Are you guys getting status emails from Gearbest?
> I get them....often with conflicting info....every couple of days.
> 
> The latest says the BT21 will be instock mid Nov and will ship.


I just got a reply yesterday from a "Bess" over there at GB&#8230; here is what she had to say&#8230;>.

"Thank you for contacting Gearbest.We are very sorry for any inconvenience and the late reply.

Unfortunately, this order is not ready yet. The item your ordered is a hot sale and there have been significant supply issues with the manufacturer.We are as disappointed as you and feel let down by the manufacturer. We wish to apologize unreservedly for this situation.

We are very sorry that the product is not in stock now, it will be back in stock around 7-10 business days".

So looks like mid Nov. is still the consensus.

Hope this is the case &#8230;.. because i REALLY need a helmet light already.

Considering strapping one of my torches up there in the mean time just so i'll have "something".


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## roy harley (May 8, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> I doubt they'd be lesser quality, actually we had more quality issues in the beginning than we do now. Well as long as we dont see the manufacturer producing different versions for different sellers like has happened with other lights. That is y we say be careful buying elseware. Gearbest will lower price again soon, probably making changes to something.


Are the Nitefigther lights ( Nitefighter BT21 and 40s) at Dealsmachine the same lights at Gearbest? The ads look exactly the same to the point it seems like they are the same china company with an additional store name.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

roy harley said:


> Are the Nitefigther lights ( Nitefighter BT21 and 40s) at Dealsmachine the same lights at Gearbest? The ads look exactly the same to the point it seems like they are the same china company with an additional store name.


Yes same. I think this was confirmed a while ago.


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## roy harley (May 8, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Swampy, you used the 15deg which isn't bad but you need to file the legs down on it first. Or just cut them off. The optics.some of us are how using for helmet are the 10deg ones from leddna that come it white holders.
> 
> Iirc these are the exact same ones https://www.fasttech.com/products/1...-12-6mm-pmma-optical-lens-for-cree-xm-l-t5-t6


if your trying to get a bit more spot, would these 10 degree condenser lens have more of a focused spot? Has anyone used a lens like this?

thanks


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The ones I linked are the ones that get the spot you want, not any optic will fit, the one you linked is too small, by alot.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

New light-head update: I've noticed some differences in my new light-head and my original. I did some light-meter lux tests last night and the new light actually makes more power (Yay!). Not a usable difference in turbo (3%) but in the lower modes it's noticeable (18%). I'm guessing Nitefighter might have tweaked the mode power levels a bit. It also has an the unusual trait when switching from high to turbo of having a small jump in brightness and then gradually increasing to it's max level. The first time I did this it took almost 3 min. to level off at its max. reading (not acceptable). I'm appropriately calling this "Turbo-Lag". Combine the increased power level in high mode with the "Turbo-Lag" and visually there's not a lot of change initially when switching to turbo. Luckily the "Turbo-Lag" time has been greatly reduced the more I use of the light plus switching optics increased the lux difference between high and turbo so I'm thinking this undesirable characteristic my go away or be reduced to a tolerable level. Haven't got a chance to ride test since the optic change but will try to get out tonight. I'm done nitpicking, the light makes more power and I'm not giving it back.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Glad to hear Mole! Glad it's not the typical Chinese cycle of quality degrading on later batches (at least not yet).

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Glad to hear Mole! Glad it's not the typical Chinese cycle of quality degrading on later batches (at least not yet).
> 
> -Garry


Garry - I was thinking about you when I noticed the small change going from high to turbo. I'm guessing all the lights are like this except the very first ones. Obviously doesn't hurt power and after a few hours of use lagging gains in power are getting pretty small. After having your BT21 for a while do you notice a larger jump in power switching from high to turbo?
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I can't say I notice aNY difference from the way it's always been. I haven't ridden with it yet though. If I can get it helmet mounted for a club ride Tuesday that'll be the first.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ledoman mentioned he's seeing the same thing with the one he got. Mole can you take current readings off the new one???

@garry- so after my day (burying my best friend, only 31yrs old) I wasn't in the mood for kids running around beating on ppls doors (live in a small town). Took the bt21 out to use as a search light as Im not quite sure where my convoy l4 is atm. HOLY CRAP. Totally dark cemetery where neighbor saw kids headed, hill peak 300+ ft from road in the middle. Lit that thing UP!!! I could see details almost as good as if a clowdy day.

Too bad xp-l hi are hard to retro fit into most lights atm, they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and at 3.5A still running at the same temps as light did stock with xm-l2.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Ledoman mentioned he's seeing the same thing with the one he got. Mole can you take current readings off the new one???
> 
> Sorry, at the moment I own no electrical test equipment or have any knowledge of what to do if I had it. I am trainable though and if you or Ledoman don't mind telling me what to buy and walking me through the test procedure I'd be grateful for the education and happy to test my light. I did a long ride tonight and got a couple of more hours of use on the new light (w/Gloworm optics). The lag to full power after switching to turbo is almost totally gone. While better there's still not as great of a light intensity change on the new light-head as the original, more like what you see on a BT40.
> Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Mole, see this thread: Contraption to Measure Current Pulled from Bike Light Battery Packs - REVISED - See Post #12 | BudgetLightForum.com and jump down to post#12. I now have two modules and have one setup for battery charger monitoring and another for light head measuring. Super convenient and accurate. Just be sure to use thick wiring.

-Garry


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

Attempting to take one of these apart as I need to change the cable length, what a pain..

I finally managed it, but wow - not easy. There's a "cable tie" from preventing the cable from being pulled out through the back, but it also prevents the PCB from really moving that much. I take my hat off to people who take chinese lights apart often for modding..


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its NOT a good idea to try and take apart or mess with a bt21. a very minor mistake and driver is toast. Its siliconed in around the case on the inside, trying to fight with it to get it out if not careful will damage the switch (rather easily). If you don't have silicone to pot the driver to the case again after pulling it apart, driver will start to overheat.

Most lights are easy, bt21 modding is more effort and takes much more care.


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

The light won't be running for long so hopefully not an issue. I have some thermal grease/pads used for computers so I could make some ghetto fix


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Pads would work, thermal paste however if its conductive or capacitive at all will mess up the driver. So make sure to check the properties of the paste before trying to use it.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> @garry- so after my day (burying my best friend, only 31yrs old) I wasn't in the mood for kids running around beating on ppls doors (live in a small town).


Sorry for your loss tigris


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Guys, sorry to bother, do you think If I get those two lenses:
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020966
10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA

I would make the bt21 more road friendly ? I hate blinding others with my light at night. I feel I'm decreasing the risk of me hitting something while increasing the risk of someone hitting me.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I would think you'd be better suited to go to a wider dispersing lens not a tighter one. Either 45 degree, 60 degree, or an elliptical. You'll lose lots of throw doing that though.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Changing optics isn't going to change that. Point your at a downward angle, not straight ahead. And don't run it on turbo and you'll be fine.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Thank you Tigris, I will try that, just need to wait for it to arrive. Hopefully soon.


tigris99 said:


> Changing optics isn't going to change that. Point your at a downward angle, not straight ahead. And don't run it on turbo and you'll be fine.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

charlesrg said:


> Guys, sorry to bother, do you think If I get those two lenses:
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020966
> 10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA
> 
> I would make the bt21 more road friendly ? I hate blinding others with my light at night. I feel I'm decreasing the risk of me hitting something while increasing the risk of someone hitting me.


 Looks like there are some differing opinions on this. My experience suggests that the narrower the beam the easier it is to aim away from anything oncoming therefor makes a more road friendly light (if aimed properly). Most optics available for the BT21 have symetrical beams so 15° means 15 vertical and 15 horizontal making it more difficult to aim away from oncoming traffics line of sight as the angle numbers go up (wide angles not so good). Elliptical's are good too (maintains a nice wide beam) as long as the vertical degree angle is kept small (10/30 is better than 20/30). You still need to aim your light down as Tigris recommended but since small beam angles produce less top spill not to the extent you would with a wider angle optic allowing you to see better (farther ahead) while minimizing the amount of top spill directed at oncoming traffic. Safety Note: you still need to be seen so I would not recommend using low in any traffic situation.
Mole


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Mole, 
Thank you very much, I feel that makes sense. To be seen on incoming traffic I can also use reflectors. 
With a large circular spread the light tends to blind incoming people on my side, with an elliptical pointing down it should help focus on the road and ahead without disturbing. Yes, far away might spread to someone but far away is less intense and it would hurt less as the other person gets closer.
Now I'm itchy to find the specs and get some quality elliptical lenses.


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## Ruttegeur (Nov 10, 2015)

*Quality is starting to slide*

The set I received the connectors do not clip together, rather slide together. Don't trust for any serious mountain biking on the shore, a little tug by turning your head when helmet mounted enough to pull connectors apart. Button inconsistent as well, having to cycle several times to make sure I'm in high. No reply from Nitefighter customer service. Hoping Gearbest can sort this out. Only the extension's male end is the proper clip together type.

Plus side bright light, with nice beam pattern.


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

Ruttegeur said:


> The set I received the connectors do not clip together, rather slide together. Don't trust for any serious mountain biking on the shore, a little tug by turning your head when helmet mounted enough to pull connectors apart. Button inconsistent as well, having to cycle several times to make sure I'm in high. No reply from Nitefighter customer service. Hoping Gearbest can sort this out. Only the extension's male end is the proper clip together type.
> 
> Plus side bright light, with nice beam pattern.
> 
> View attachment 1027781


To be clear it hasn't come unplugged on you yet though, correct? Do you have to cycle through the modes because it isn't doing a complete cycle or because you aren't comfortable with a new light yet? Is this your 1st bt21? Your subject line suggests quality is 'sliding' , how many other nitefighter lights have you owned before this to gauge the quality against?

Sounds like you may have paid for a Hyundai and expected a Mercedes.

My connections have never had any issues and the buttons did take a little getting used to fwiw.


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## Ruttegeur (Nov 10, 2015)

Hasn't come apart yet, but don't have the confidence to take it out on a ride. Rather not find out the hard way as the trails are steep and rough in North Vancouver.

Having a mechanical advantage, not just friction fit for a connection that moves and potentially snagged, is a base requirement for this type of light not an luxury item IMHO. With the extension cord being the clip-in type, it's going to stretch out the non clip-in female end on the battery, then if I ever connect direct from lamp head to battery the connection will be even looser. 

Glad it working for your needs so far but wanted to let everyone know, who's not comfortable with the risk, as the pictures on GB show clip-together connectors on the light head.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Just tape it if you're worried about it.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Looking at the picture someone put the wrong connector on the light head. Qc issue there, someone screwed up.


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

I've been riding with a light that has a slide together connectors for 5 years and it's never come apart FWIW. I wouldn't be too concerned unless it's a super loose fit.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Slide together are still supposed to "snap" together. The wire on the far right of his image shows the correct cable, the light head doesn't have that connector, it has the standard dc charger connector on it instead


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Ruttegeur where did you order from ? Was it gearbest ? Did they acknowledge the issue with the connector ?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Will they sell just the lighthead again in the near future? All I see is the kit (which I don't want)

Nitefighter BT21 1800LM Cree XM L2 2 LEDs Water - resistant Mountain Bike Lights-59.99 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Varider, I have NO IDEA atm. There is some changes going on over there (probably in response to all the problems). I'll see what I can do though.

@Garry: I went and took a beam shot at the cemetery so you can really see the insane throw now.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> @Garry: I went and took a beam shot at the cemetery so you can really see the insane throw now.


Wow! Now I know you recommended I swap XP-L's into the Yinding and not the BT21 as it was easier to do, but why? What makes it harder to do in the BT21?

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Because 16mm pcbs wont fit normally. Too thick and way to large of diameter. Xp-l are XP size so they obviously wont fit stock emitter PCB


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

OK, thanks


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks tig!

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No problem, I machined my head out a bit with my dremel to fit 16mm noctigons. If you can find 10mm pcbs you might be in business, but sinkpads will be too thick.



Boosting a yinding to 2.5A on high (I wouldn't without one of vancs finned mounts) and putting them in it will get you pretty close to that bt21 ( I still have a stock one too cause I don't see a need to mess with it). That pic was on turbo, 3.5A. 2.5A is plenty for what I ride locally, but head handles the 3.5A since xp-l runs cooler and custom driver is more efficient. 2A is good for most my trails, 2.5A gives just a tad extra punch to the throw which comes in handy in a couple spots.

That said, my yinding will probably get a pair as well. Has regular xp-l atm.


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## benplaut (Oct 25, 2009)

Replacement BT21 head arrived today via Sweden; no confirmation or RMA or tracking, but it got here. No noticeable changes from the new one to the old apart from slight differences in the lettering on the lights (and it works). Just a small padded envelope, new head, new o-rings, and new manual.

I'll give a try to actually fixing the dud now that it's a spare, though, it doesn't sound easy to mess around inside.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Can you compare if the turbo mode uses the same power as old one? Mine replacement has weaker turbo as Tigris has described in his review. And I'm not alone. It might be the manufacturer has done some changes to the latest batches.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> Can you compare if the turbo mode uses the same power as old one? Mine replacement has weaker turbo as Tigris has described in his review. And I'm not alone. It might be the manufacturer has done some changes to the latest batches.


According to USPS tracking my multimeter should arrive tomorrow. I already picked up the wires and adapters so I can get you battery draw readings on my original and new (replacement) BT21. Have you got any information from Nitefighter about this?
Mole


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

No, haven't had time and energy to make long explanation of the problem yet. 
BTW, use very thick/short wires with DMM to make reliable current readings.


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## roy harley (May 8, 2004)

I think some of use are waiting around for lights to show up in the mail or even leave for our homes from the warehouse. We don't know what batch they will be sending us by the time they get all caught up with orders to be filled and shipped out.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> No, haven't had time and energy to make long explanation of the problem yet.
> BTW, use very thick/short wires with DMM to make reliable current readings.


Where I work we have several very old printing presses that require constant work to keep running. Electrical issues are frequent so I have access to just about any wire I would need. I brought home 14 ga. which looks to be as big as the male/female adapters would take so I think I'm good. I'll probably try some lighter sizes of wire later on to see how small I can go before it starts making a difference (for fun). No immediate plans for Saturday night so if the meter comes I should be able to get right to it.
Mole


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Good, keep in mind you should use same wire lenght when comparing different AWG so the tests would be consistent.


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## benplaut (Oct 25, 2009)

ledoman said:


> Can you compare if the turbo mode uses the same power as old one? Mine replacement has weaker turbo as Tigris has described in his review. And I'm not alone. It might be the manufacturer has done some changes to the latest batches.


Given that my first one was defective, it might not be the best comparison, but... hard to tell if the output is different because the tint is notably different! Cooler on the new one, though nowhere near as cool as a cool white. That said, output looks comparable.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Current BT21 vs Original BT21 vs Gw X2V3.1*



Here's the results of my first tests with the new DMM. I used the standard Nitefighter 4 cell as a power source (usually use a 6 cell xecccon). Ran the battery draw tests with one and the lux tests with another.

(A/lux)**.............Low ..........Med................High.............Turbo....
**=Diff. in initial lux reading to fully warmed up.

New BT21.......(.12/14.8)....(.51/65)........(1.29/144)......(2.50/209) .58

Original BT21..(.11/13).....(.47/54.8)......(1.21/124.8).....(2.64/201) .32

GW X2V3.1.................................................................(1.88/196)

Interesting the highest A draw didn't give the highest lux #'s. All lights were equipped with GW (XS spot) optics.

Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

i can actually venture to guess right now. GJHS mentioned the tint was a bit too yellow, which with matching optics the difference in 3c and 4c takes a side by side to see it. But previous post guy mentioned tint looks "cooler" but not near cool white.

SO My thoughts are this: Previous was running 4c which highest bin is t6. 3C/3D in u2 bin will give better lux numbers and seems they actually did what I told them to do, turn the other modes up a bit. your talking a 10-15% increase across the lower modes on your results. Also possible they made a change to the driver resulting in better efficiency. watts out=(watts in) X (driver efficiency). Which would explain the lower amps but higher output. Doesnt take much effort to boost efficiency if you know how a driver works (I know little, but the driver work for my DIY projects IM learning alot cause guy is fine tuning them so we can squeeze out every little bit)

Makes me want another light head lol.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, xp-l hi on 10deg optics is A DREAM COME TRUE, HOLY ****!!!!

Got my first chance to night ride tonight on trails on it with my prototype (DIY machined) 3x3 on the bars.

Talk about the perfect light set up for me, FRAKING AWESOME. I can run good mix beam at 2000lumens on the bars and it doesn't overpower my helmet light.

I got video too, between damp leaves and heavy deer presence I had to keep speed down though. Like I almost blasted a 6 point when I was on the road (in my car) 200yrd from trail head to go ride.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

^^^...nice looking 3-up. Lucky you.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Very nice tig! Can't wait to try it out myself! And yes, that 3up looks great! 

I actually got out yesterday (daylight) on a ride at a new location with club members I hadn't met before (helping one buy a BT21). Whoa I got put in my place! I learned I'm not up to riding with the "advanced" riders! One older gentleman easily in his 60's whooped my tail! (Sorry, rambling off-topic.)

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

@Cat- that 3up is my own creation. $80 drill press off amazon, bunch of milling bits, milling vise off eBay for $40 and my dremel. Whole thread in DIY forum on the build but breakdown is:


Custom driver from mtnelectronics.com with optimized efficiency.

- 3 triple xp-g2 s3 3c (total 9 emitters),

- 12.6v pack made from xiaomi yi power banks.



Max output 3600ish lumens after losses. Turbo is on 3min timer (no thermal step down, were working on driver that will do that). High is 2100 lumens give or take a few. Medium is good for low speed, low is good on pavement, and hidden flasher mode.



As long as there's is air flow (even just on wind tunnel) it can hold turbo with only hitting 110 deg in 70deg ambient.



Bt21 with pushing 2000 lumens (3.5A) runs no hotter than stock set up due to better efficiency on both driver (smaller version of what's in my DIY light but for 8.4v) and emitters on noctigons.

@garry- im 280lbs, im used to getting my ass handed to me, especially while climbing long stuff, they can have a convo while doing it. Im huffing and puffing. But if I get the room to open it up so I can keep momentum up for the short climbs, im actually keeping up and passing people. Big thing is confidence gained by experience and keeping momentum up. Theirs a member of the club that is 60ish, rides a single speed and stomps my ass no matter what except down hill, I have gears so I don't spin out near as early. But that's easy and open stuff, he kicks my ass on EVERYTHING else lol.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Welp..... GB is NO Longer selling the BT21's since there was a problem with the suppliers. 


Waited two and a half months for NOTHING!!! 

So now I have to figure out which "Helmet" light to get that will go well with my BT40s. 


Here is the letter I received this morning from GB.........
_______________________________________________


"Thank you for contacting gearbest about your order. We are processing it.


We feel greatly sorry for letting you wait this long.



Unfortunately, we are very sorry to inform you that the item cannot be sold anymore on our website due to supplier's issues.

Could you please visit our website again and choose suitable replacement?



We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience that may have been caused.

We look forward to hearing from you soon. 

Thank you for your understanding.



Best Regards 

Marva 

Gearbest Customer Service"



..So those of you that are still getting BT20's, I'd be cautious of where they are sending them from! 


Well, time to go find a light!


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

DustyTrail said:


> Welp..... GB is NO Longer selling the BT21's since there was a problem with the suppliers.
> 
> Waited two and a half months for NOTHING!!!
> 
> ...


Did you order lighthead only or the whole kit? I'm still seeing the whole kit available on their website. 
Maybe they are not willing to sell lighthead only any more. Oh well, guess I missed my chance too


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

While waiting for the BT21 I've got this: http://www.kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S023808 and I'm very pleased with it. no complaints at all


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

charlesrg said:


> While waiting for the BT21 I've got this: http://www.kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S023808 and I'm very pleased with it. no complaints at all


How long did it take for you to get it in the mail?

What battery are you using it with it?

I'm either going to buy this light or the Yinding 900 from GB.

Still not sure which one to go with. ...but I need something NOW!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The Yinding should still be the better buy (so long as it hasn't changed). Battery though is still a gamble on quality.

-Garry


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Thanks Gary..... Much Appreciated!!!

So then, Will this battery pack work with the Yinding???

Magicshine MJ-6030 5600mAh Battery Pack - Action-LED-Lights

.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, the Yinding uses the standard MagicShine connector.

-Garry


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

garrybunk said:


> Yes, the Yinding uses the standard MagicShine connector.
> 
> -Garry


Sweet.... ordering now. Thanks again!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I haven't been told anything about bt21 not being sold anymore. Just as of right now it is kit only.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

I paid the option to upgrade to DHL and it took about two weeks to NJ.
I'm using one of their batteries the 6800mah but I've not tested it to tell how much juice I can get out of it.
I like the stepless mode on the KD light as some lights have too much of a step from MED to HIGH so the progressive mode by holding the button helps to ensure no issues with that. For the Yinding I don't have one and can't tell.
Here is my stash, solarstorm,xeccon,kd,nitefighter


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> I haven't been told anything about bt21 not being sold anymore. Just as of right now it is kit only.


Good point. Dusty, did you order the lighthead only or the kit?

charlesrg - your pic isn't displaying.
-Garry


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Garry, I ordered the entire Kit for $60 back in September.

I asked them why they haven't taken the BT21 off their website yet but still no answer. 

Maybe they were being hopeful that nightfighter would eventually come through and then recently realized they weren't? 

Whatever the case... I am Super Pissed that they Never once reached out to me to tell me that these lights are No longer going to be for sale here. 

It wasn't until I got ahold of them asking when they will be back in stock and if I can pay extra for speedy delivery that they told me the bad news. 


Oh well....... just ordered my Yinding from them. hopefully it wont take as long as it did this time.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That's odd because people have been receiving theirs without issues lately.



I'll check into it. Especially when the headaches that gearbest had to deal with were THEIR OWN FAULT for not properly posting on their website the stock status of items. Wasn't a nitefighter problem (beyond the fact they couldn't keep up easily) but gearbest wasn't being honest and stating products were on back order.


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## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

Hi all. Been lurking for a few weeks and thought its about time I joined up. I am from the UK and found you guys when looking for light reviews. I ordered a BT40S and a BT21 (full kits) off your review/comments. 40 was delivered in 10 days and really impressed with the light, 21 is still on order.

Found this : 2015 Newest product LED Bike Light Bicycle Lamp 1800 Lumen upgraded 
who I think is the manufacturer for Nightfighter and noticed they list a "new upgraded" BT21S, as well as the BT21. Just wondering if they have stopped production on the 21 for the 21S or if the current 21 has already been upgraded to latest spec but model number has not changed.

Either way I hope our orders are not actually cancelled and we get the latest version of the light if indeed the 21 has stopped production.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

The whole Gearbest thing keeps getting weirder( or not...considering the company)
When I first ordered the BT21....I was told it would ship later.
I then got a email saying it would not be restocked( similar to above)...and would I like a Gearbest Wallet credit...which I replied NO!
Then 2 emails saying the BT21 would be in stock mid Nov and would ship.
Haven't heard anything for about 2 weeks now.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Not so odd that it is just computer renderings....and you can't actually "buy" it....it goes into a "inquiry" basket.



Spice Weasel said:


> Hi all. Been lurking for a few weeks and thought its about time I joined up. I am from the UK and found you guys when looking for light reviews. I ordered a BT40S and a BT21 (full kits) off your review/comments. 40 was delivered in 10 days and really impressed with the light, 21 is still on order.
> 
> Found this : 2015 Newest product LED Bike Light Bicycle Lamp 1800 Lumen upgraded
> who I think is the manufacturer for Nightfighter and noticed they list a "new upgraded" BT21S, as well as the BT21. Just wondering if they have stopped production on the 21 for the 21S or if the current 21 has already been upgraded to latest spec but model number has not changed.
> ...


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## Smilely (Oct 14, 2011)

Our BT21s arrived today. My buddy placed an order for two of them on 10/13. He got a notice they had cleared US customs last week. They arrived at his house today. Unfortunately due to a big wind storm here in the Seattle area, his house is without power, and for some reason he feels his generator is being put to better use powering his fridge and household than charging my new light. So, we don't have anything to report yet about how well they work. All packaging looks as as expected, it all matches the BT40 he ordered a few months ago.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I have confirmation there is a shipment coming into them today or tomorrow. Their not going to stop carrying it, I dunno wtf lol.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

I am beginning to get so f'n tired of this already..... literally. 

for over two months now I've been waiting for this stupid light. 

Then today I get a message directly from GB stating they will NO longer be selling these lights.....Sooooooooo, I went ahead and purchased an expensive battery pack from Action LED and put in my order for a Yinding. 

But now you are telling me that GB is in fact still going to carry and sell the BT21 kits??????? 


WTF?????? 

So should I cancel my order from Action LED now???? I think it was already shipped today. 

F*#K....... buying Anything should Not be this hard. PERIOD!!!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No it shouldn't be this difficult, very freaking irritating. But I contacted our contact directly so i could get what you were told either corrected or confirmed. My contact knows alot better what is going on and I did pass this on (plus our contact reads these threads).

Hopefully they get their stuff sorted soon, gearbest used to be great but now its been alot of problems lately.


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## roy harley (May 8, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> No it shouldn't be this difficult, very freaking irritating. But I contacted our contact directly so i could get what you were told either corrected or confirmed. My contact knows alot better what is going on and I did pass this on (plus our contact reads these threads).
> 
> Hopefully they get their stuff sorted soon, gearbest used to be great but now its been alot of problems lately.


Does this news also apply to Dealsmachine.com's inventory?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I have no idea we dont deal with dealsmachine directly. Only gearbest.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Regarding the stepless KD driver- do you know you can permanently program any of the 3 settings to one of 10 levels?
Just go to the stepless mode while in a setting, pick a level, and hold the switch until it turns off and on again. You can repeat for the other 2 settings if you want.

I use this driver in my Yindings.



charlesrg said:


> I paid the option to upgrade to DHL and it took about two weeks to NJ.
> I'm using one of their batteries the 6800mah but I've not tested it to tell how much juice I can get out of it.
> I like the stepless mode on the KD light as some lights have too much of a step from MED to HIGH so the progressive mode by holding the button helps to ensure no issues with that. For the Yinding I don't have one and can't tell.
> Here is my stash, solarstorm,xeccon,kd,nitefighter


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I have one yinding setup the same way. The drivers is those lights is good, the light head for the kd2 is total crap though (literally worst thermal design internally there is, almost no thermal path). The programable drivers being available separately and installing one in a yinding you end up with one "kick ass" little light.

It isn't a bt21 (and yes kits are available still) but its a nice light. Put some xp-l hi with 10deg optics and you have a hellva helmet light.


----------



## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

Sorry for the noob question. Does this light use any power when connected to a battery but not powered on? In the video in the first post, it shows "8.19v 0.0a" ..I'm confused because I saw a light for sale UK which has a "standby mode - this allows the lamp to be turned off whilst still connected, but with a nil draw on the battery"


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

All lights with electronic (momentary) switch have some drain when connected to the battery pack. It just depends on the design and if status leds are lit on when light is off.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

What you saw was the fact the battery pack was plugged in, so it was showing pack voltage without load.



And it does turn off with pack plugged in but it will still slowly drain the pack, never leave a bike light that uses a separate battery pack for the light plugged in for long as there is still a small drain. Definitely dont store it that way.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Pssssshhhht, now GB wont even answer any of my tickets. 


If I dont hear from them tommorw, I am going to "once again" cancel my order...only this time, I will Never purchase through them again. 

Nor will I ever recommend them to ANYONE! 

Buyers Beware of Liars!


----------



## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

Out of interest for those of us still waiting for the BT21 when did you order the light? I ordered the 40S and 21 (full kits) on Oct25 with the BT40 being sent out 3 days later.

Just wondering where I stack up on the waiting list. Already emailed Gearbest and got the "hot ticket sale item" please wait reply. Just thinking if it doesn't get sent out soon then it will be held up with all the xmas orders coming out of China


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

I originally ordered on Sept 1st.......waited until Oct. 4th and when I didn't hear abything back from them, I decided to cancel my order. 

Then after inquiring with a few folks here about which light would best compliment my BT40s, I was told that i should just bite the bullet and reorder and wait it out.

Soooooo, on the 8th of Oct, I "re-placed" my order and have gotten the run around ever since. 

Not one customer service rep is able to give me the same answer twice. 

Each one has a different story to tell. 

What frustrates me the most is the response I got the other day that i posted saying that they are no longer going to be carrying this item and then Tig got completely different answer. 

And seems people are still getting them so I haven't a f'n clue anymore. 

Seriously about to Re-Re Cancel my order and instead go thourgh Kaidomain and get one of their neutral white lights.


----------



## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

I JUST WANT A HELMET LIGHT.....arrrrrrgh! 



end rant....


In the mean time I need to start getting ready for a night ride :-/

lmao


----------



## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

> Dear Ray,
> 
> Thanks for your message and inquiry.
> 
> ...


This is the reply I got from customer service when I emailed & asked. I placed my order on November 4th. The light was listed 'In stock' when I ordered, so it's disappointing to hear it's on backorder.

Not really sweatin' the $, so I'll just wait, but just wanted to post this here in case others are waiting and ordered around the same time.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That's the headache there, nothing shows in stock or back ordered. No clue either way without contacting them.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> That's the headache there, nothing shows in stock or back ordered. No clue either way without contacting them.


There's a little line under the video that says
Caution: The item will arrive on Nov. 7th!!!

Do they understanding that they are alienating their biggest customer base for this product?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

biggest customer base hell, we are the customer base


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## jbuzz229 (Nov 11, 2015)

Placed an order yesterday morning... we'll see how this goes. Have to say this forum is the reason I pulled the trigger. Awesome work guys!


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## bhosty1 (Oct 22, 2015)

I'm another one in this situation - I order the BT21 and BT40S full kits from GB on 21st October. I also ordered a Convoy C8 Convoy C8 L2 T6 - 4C 6 / 8 x 7135 LED Flashlight-16.14 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com. I paid for the extra for expedited delivery.

The C8 and BT40S arrived after a week or two. No sign of the BT21.

The battery connector plug on the BT40s caused the light to flicker on and off every time it moved so I had to chop it off and solder on a new plug. Its a good light and easily lasts 2:30 on max ('turbo') but on a road bike it alone doesn't have the throw I like, but thats what the BT21 is for. I measured the output to be very consistent for the full 2:30 before quickly dimming over the next half hour.

The Convoy C8 is brilliant. The best throwing light I've seen, its just a shame its so big/heavy on the helmet and a battery only lasts around an hour - it gets dimmer and dimmer after turning it on, appears to be no regulation. Its light output complements the BT40 well. Great for looking way ahead even blasting down a hill at 35mph.

I've contacted GB multiple times about the BT21, the latest news was due in on the 10th Nov, then the Monday just gone, now they wont respond.

I also recently received a http://www.kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S023808 - its a nice light but doesn't add much when on the helmet with the BT40s on the bars, its just not got enough throw. Very small and light though. Not as well regulated as the BT40S.

I also just received a bill from TNT the delivery company, they want £22 'import duty' that they say GB didn't declare or something...


----------



## bhosty1 (Oct 22, 2015)

I also ordered a BT21 full kit on 21st October and haven't received it yet, keep getting told its due soon. At the same time I ordered a BT40s and a Convoy C8, and paid for expedited delivery.

The BT40s and Convoy arrived quickly. The BT40s plug connector caused the light to flicker off so I chopped the end off and soldered a new one on. Its a good light, maintains full light output for 2 hours 30 mins on the provided battery - http://hosty.org/lights/?light_id=10. It doesn't have much throw though, I feel a helmet light is needed for road biking (hence the BT21)

The Convoy C8 throws brilliantly and compliments the BT40S well, but its a bit too heavy on the helmet, a battery only lasts an hour or so and its not regulated so starts getting dimmer straight after turning it on - http://hosty.org/lights/?light_id=9

Yesterday I received an unexpected bill for £22 from TNT - they want the customs/taxes!


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

Well I'm really conflicted now. I just ordered a BT21 from GB yesterday based on all the positive feedback about this light on this thread, this verrrrrrrry long thread! Yeah, I didn't get all the way to the end or last half dozen pages where all the ordering problems started cropping up!

So I'm wondering if I should just preemptively cancel this order now? The light seems great, the price is right, but I want to night ride now! Or within a couple of weeks at least.


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

Oh one other quick comment: There were two free shipping options — I chose the one that spec'd a shorter delivery time, naturally. 

Do you think it will make a big difference in getting the light at all if I choose a paid delivery option? I don' really care about the time as much as just getting the light. Last thing I want is a protracted email dispute with GB or paypal. Thanks.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Convoy lights are regulated , they are not direct drive, but like every led, they dim a bit from cold to warming up.

@mikey: Paid delivery options are always faster and more reliable. Especially if you don't choose to have tracking. And the lights are coming in stock (possibly in stock as we speak).


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> @mikey: Paid delivery options are always faster and more reliable. Especially if you don't choose to have tracking. And the lights are coming in stock (possibly in stock as we speak).


I went back to the GB site and checked out the paid delivery options. Hindsight is 20/20. The first one was $17.00 and seemed too high considering the cost of the light. Then I saw a $3.00 option. Wish I saw that the first time through. I emailed GB to see if I could switch shipping as it's still in the processing stage. I'll post back here when I get a response.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Well, Just canceled my order from GB.....................................................again. 


Decided to order the KD-2 in NW from KD along with a 5600mAh MS battery pack, Battery charger, extension cable & helmet mount from Action LED. 

I just couldn't risk waiting another 2+++++ months for a friggin light.


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Now watch they'll get stock in and everyone will be getting them in over the next few weeks! LOL! That's how they roll!

-Garry


----------



## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

garry.... believe me, I know that's exactly whats going to happen. 

And im glad you know how they roll because I haven't been able to figure it out. lol

So yea, at least in the mean time, i'll have SOMETHING to ride with on my helmet instead of nothing at all. 

All ive been night riding with is my bt40s on the bars this whole time. 

yes, my skills are improving but i also know what im missing. I go out on night rides at least twice a week with a group out here and it's kind of become a joke now amongst them about my light not showing up. 

Anyways, if GB ever gets their shizznit together and does actually restock and isn't giving people the run around then maybe, just maybe i'll reconsider and buy the bt21. 

At least i'll have a nice Action LED battery for it


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

DustyTrail said:


> Well, Just canceled my order from GB.....................................................again.
> 
> Decided to order the KD-2 in NW from KD along with a 5600mAh MS battery pack, Battery charger, extension cable & helmet mount from Action LED.
> 
> I just couldn't risk waiting another 2+++++ months for a friggin light.


So did you get your money back or credit with GB? I placed my order yesterday, sent a preemptive ticket today and I'm thinking about canceling tonight/tmrw. I went through this same deal a few years back with a chinese light, don't remember the company but waited and waited and then canceled. Got my money back quickly, but hearing on this forum GB has been playing games with refunds.


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

Well that was fast. I just heard back from GB regarding the shipping. I opted to add the $3.53 shipping to get a little peace of mind. Their quick response and being able to change the shipping has me a little more optimistic and not canceling just yet. . .


----------



## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

Not sure why you think paying for expedited shipping is going to help. They physically do not have the lights -- they are either still in China, or on a boat on their way here.


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

Rb said:


> Not sure why you think paying for expedited shipping is going to help. They physically do not have the lights -- they are either still in China, or on a boat on their way here.


I know it isn't going to do anything regarding the lights not being physically available.

But If/when they get the lights in, the expedited shipping should do just that, in theory at least. To me it was a small price to pay if it will help at all. I'm still skeptical though.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Rb said:


> Not sure why you think paying for expedited shipping is going to help. They physically do not have the lights -- they are either still in China, or on a boat on their way here.


You missd everyone of my posts last 2 days . They should be there right now (gearbest is in china so has nothing to do with slow boat) and be shipping out to everyone over next couple of days. And expedited will help ALOT. 1 week wait vs 1 month +.


----------



## roy harley (May 8, 2004)

I am praying to the manufacturing Gods and the Gods of expedited shipping and all methods and forms of shipping to show us all the light (pun intended) and produce some Bike lights for all of us!

A-men....sweet baby Jeeezus!!


----------



## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

That made me laugh roy


----------



## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

Well found out last night that my BT21 that my mother ordered for my birthday has not arrived yet. She ordered it in early October about a week prior to me ordering up a BT40. Maybe it'll be here between winter solstice . Here's the thing she bought me another gift and totally forgot she ordered that light because it's been so long and Gearbest pretty much has shitty communication.


----------



## tdilf (Sep 21, 2006)

I got an email on Nov. 17 that my light has shipped from GB - not sure what that means as far as the wait. I am loosing all my warm weather night rides - gonna be freezing by the time i can night ride.

Edit: Ordered 11/7


----------



## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

Curious, when did you order yours?


----------



## tdilf (Sep 21, 2006)

Ordered Nov. 7


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## samwe (Jul 27, 2015)

I ordered on 10/17, shipped on 11/3 and received it last night.
I have a BT40s on bars, so I put the BT21 on my helmet replacing a Serfas 550.
The BT21 seems more dispersed than the Serfas. I thin I prefer the helmet light to be more of a spot.
I have only used it for a 15 minute ride this morning, so I need more time to decide how I like it.
In general I am glad I took a chance on these two lights vs a name brand light at $300+...


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The optics in the bt21 are easy to change so you can get more of a spot. Stock optics definitely arent for everyone lol.


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

Big Fil said:


> Well found out last night that my BT21 that my mother ordered for my birthday has not arrived yet. She ordered it in early October about a week prior to me ordering up a BT40. Maybe it'll be here between winter solstice . Here's the thing she bought me another gift and totally forgot she ordered that light because it's been so long and Gearbest pretty much has shitty communication.


My brief experience with GearBest's communication has been very different. They've been very quick to respond and on topic and CLEAR! Now I'm just hoping their order fulfillment follows suit.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Here's the results of my first tests with the new DMM. I used the standard Nitefighter 4 cell as a power source (usually use a 6 cell xecccon). Ran the battery draw tests with one and the lux tests with another.
> 
> (A/lux)**.............Low ..........Med................High.............Turbo....
> **=Diff. in initial lux reading to fully warmed up.
> ...


Thought I'd add the data I got from a different test I did last night on current draw/lux output @ max temp. before overheat protection mode activates. The test #'s I posted above were taken where I thought the light had leveled off on lux/current draw levels but I was wrong. Using my infrared temp gun I monitored the temp till it reached 148° (150° activates protection mode) which is where I got the highest readings for lux and current draw (Newest light-head) (215 lux / 2.75 A). This is a strange light! The only light I've seen that gains intensity as it gets hotter (turbo mode only, all other modes have lux losses as the emitters heat up). Perfect light for me though since I live in the Arizona desert.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I dont even know what to make of that lol.

All that comes to mind is this:

VF of emitters decreases as they get hotter, but increases with current. Voltage can in a sense "regulate" output as each is a function of the other. Sounds like the driver is monitoring voltage and trying to regulate the vf within a given value instead of just regulating current. But only for turbo. 

That's my minimally educated guess. Lol


----------



## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Do you guys know what is the measured (actual) capacity of the battery in the full kit?


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

its in the original post. Right close to actual rating, run time is a few more minutes than rated.


----------



## nefertari (Apr 8, 2015)

Sorry to hear that...again. I'm here, anything I could help?


----------



## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

Looks like its pot luck when our orders get sent out then as tdilf ordered recently and already has the light. Thought they would of gone with oldest orders first as some of you have been waiting months. Just checked and mine is still "Processing" (Oct25 order date). 

Am sure it will turn up at some point, the question is this year or next


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK it should be this year, very likely this month


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

nefertari said:


> Sorry to hear that...again. I'm here, anything I could help?


nefertari from gearbest? I would like to purchase the Bt21 lighthead, not the kit. Will those be in stock in the near future? Thank you.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> I dont even know what to make of that lol.
> 
> All that comes to mind is this:
> 
> ...


 Thanks for your guess. This is just a noteworthy characteristic (great for people in warm climates) of this strange but entertaining light. I'm not complaining as I am very happy with the lights performance, it's just unusual.

Used this setup (GW XS spots-helmet/Wide angles-bar) for last nights ride (34 mi.), worked great. Used the newer light on the bars and am liking the slightly more muscular high setting.









Mole


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

I ordered my light over a month ago. Zero communication or updates from gearbest, although i do continue to receive their ads to purchase further items from them.

What a joke. Where are my two bt-21 lights and batteries!? Someone? Anyone? Netfari from Gearbest?:skep::skep: 

The need for the lights will be over (summer) by the time i get them....if ever. 

I already contacted Gearbest with an inquiry. They said "please wait 15 days". I did that....plus an additional few weeks....


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Contact them again, they should have plenty in stock now.


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## mentawais (Feb 16, 2005)

I ordered a BT21 in 02/11 yesterday they answered still in back order they ask me to wait more 5 days.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'll message them and see wth, I was told itd be in stock a couple days ago. Though they may not have everything updated yet


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

FYI:

"
CSgearbest 11/22/2015 - 12:05

Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Nitefighter BT21 1800LM 2 LEDs Cree XM L2 Water - resistant Mountain Bike Lights-40.76 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
I have checked the stock status and the item Nitefighter BT21 LED Bicycle Light is out of stock now.
*And we don't have the information when it will be restocked.*

If any furthur question, please feel free to contact us.

Best Regards
*****
Gearbest Customer Service
"


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Amateur hour!

What happened to this place, it used to be so good.


----------



## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

Think also the BT21 go pro adapater is maybe out of stock, or they're just veryyyyyyyyyy slow to ship. 

I think the problem with these types of companies is they just sell too much, most of which is crap. Would they not be better if for example they just stocked bike lights which were highly reviewed, then they would only need to communicate with handful of suppliers.. Also apply this to other categories of items they sell and they might be able to run a bit more efficient


----------



## WhoopDeeDoo (Aug 19, 2015)

Glad I decided to pull the plug when I did. Should be getting my KD2 here next week and already received my battery pack from A-LED. 

GB has definitely lost me as a potential customer for any future business. 

Good luck to everyone else who bravely placed an order

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Though bt21 thing is a mess, no way id waste money on kd2, have them and only thing they do is good overheat like hell, constantly stepping down on high. Needs redesign. Yindings are FAR better and I know are available at several places.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> Though bt21 thing is a mess, no way id waste money on kd2, have them and only thing they do is good overheat like hell, constantly stepping down on high. Needs redesign. Yindings are FAR better and I know are available at several places.


Arggghhhhhhh....... wish I woulda knew this before I bought it.

Where would you recommend I buy one ??

Do they come in neutral white?


----------



## HDsilakka (Nov 22, 2015)

BT-21 awesome helmet light! Ordered mine 23 sep, shipped 28 sep, got it 13 oct (head only) and 10deg spots from leddna.
(ordered bt40s 18oct still waiting :madman


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Dusty, I agree Yinding is better, but KD2 is not all that bad. If you are handy you can internaly add some copper sheet and it will be much better. I can send you some pictures to get an idea.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

nathan89 said:


> Think also the BT21 go pro adapater is maybe out of stock, or they're just veryyyyyyyyyy slow to ship.


I have quality BT21 GoPro adapters in stock.


----------



## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

ledoman said:


> Dusty, I agree Yinding is better, but KD2 is not all that bad. If you are handy you can internaly add some copper sheet and it will be much better. I can send you some pictures to get an idea.


I would love to see the pics ledoman...... appreciate it!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK GUYS, SEEMS SOMETHING WAS OFF:

THE BT21S ARE BEING UPDATED INTO THEIR SYSTEM NOW ORDERS WILL START GOING OUT IN THE NEXT 24-36 HOURS.

Just like us, they have to wait on shipping time from supplier to their warehouse, got a delay by a couple days it seems. 

BUT I HAVE CONFIRMATION, 100% CERTAIN, IN THE WAREHOUSE, PROCESSING INTO SYSTEM TO START SHIPPING OUT ORDERS.

Swear, as much work as I put in I should be getting paid lol.

ps: as I understand it, 200 are in stock as of today, with 100 more on order lol. Im begining to think someone above our rep didnt listen to us about they needed to stock these things and alot of them. So when they got swamped nitefighter couldnt keep up with the orders.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I just don't get it. They should resend my lost shipment I'm waiting >60 days, but I constantly get fooled around 

"
CSgearbest 11/23/2015 - 11:27
Hi ledoman,

Thanks for your message.

I have checked the stock status and the item Nitefighter BT21 LED Bicycle Light (128582801) is back-ordered now.
We expect it to be back in stock withing 3-7 working days if there is no delay on supplier's side.

We apologize for this inconvenience.

Thanks for your time and patience.

Best Regards
Sydnie
Gearbest Customer Service
GearBest - Best Gadgets & Electronics Deals
"


----------



## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

Just a bit of feedback on the BT21...im having battery/optic issues so the jury is still out on the light but; I was out last night and with the 21 on my helmet it was impossible to switch modes with my winter gloves on without removing my helmet. They are a softshell type material, probably a bit on the thick side, but the switch is too small and too flush. Im sure with thinner gloves it will be fine, but its worth bearing in mind when choosing gloves for winter night rides if you plan on having the BT21 on your helmet and want to be able to switch through modes.
Cheers


----------



## Wire (Nov 2, 2015)

BT21 head-only at GB now: Nitefighter BT21 1800LM 2 LEDs Cree XM L2 Water - resistant Mountain Bike Lights-25.99 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

25.99 USD ? Ordered. Now sit and wait...


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I'm waiting for the BT21 also....so I bought a KD2.
Used it twice in cooler weather ( mid-upper 40s) on high for 2 hours with zero issues.....it's a very good light ( especially for $15)
I like it better than the BT40....



DustyTrail said:


> Arggghhhhhhh....... wish I woulda knew this before I bought it.
> 
> Where would you recommend I buy one ??
> 
> Do they come in neutral white?


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> OK GUYS, SEEMS SOMETHING WAS OFF:
> ......
> ps: as I understand it, 200 are in stock as of today, with 100 more on order lol. Im begining to think someone above our rep didnt listen to us about they needed to stock these things and alot of them. So when they got swamped nitefighter couldnt keep up with the orders.


Now it looks we weren't precise enough. Based on GB customer service they got *200 pcs* of *full sets* on stock, but *0* (zero,nada,...) *heads only*. 

Here is the latest answer:

CSgearbest 11/23/2015 - 12:44

Hi ledoman,

Thanks for your reply.

Nitefighter BT21 1800LM Cree XM L2 2 LEDs Water - resistant Mountain Bike Lights-59.99 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
It is 128308201 that we got 200 pcs today.

Nitefighter BT21 1800LM 2 LEDs Cree XM L2 Water - resistant Mountain Bike Lights-25.99 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
We are sorry that there are some delays and supply issue on supplier's side.
We have reconfirmed with our supplier and we expect it to be back in stock in 10 days if no delays.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused.
We appreciate your understanding and patience.

Best Regards
Sydnie
Gearbest Customer Service
GearBest - Best Gadgets & Electronics Deals


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I was told that they were getting a limited number of lightheads. I placed my order today and paid the 1.52 for upgraded shipping (supposedly 3-7 days to the US). Don't use Netherlands post, your package will first go the Netherlands via the slow boat before coming to America. I don't think it will be shipped out right away, but I hope to have it before Christmas. 

25.99, you aren't going to get a better deal than that, I believe they were up to $36 in the last few months.


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## tdilf (Sep 21, 2006)

tdilf said:


> Ordered Nov. 7


Received my light today - charging now!
They come in to NY and I am in PA so not that far from port.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

midnight_rambler said:


> Just a bit of feedback on the BT21...im having battery/optic issues so the jury is still out on the light but; I was out last night and with the 21 on my helmet it was impossible to switch modes with my winter gloves on without removing my helmet. They are a softshell type material, probably a bit on the thick side, but the switch is too small and too flush. Im sure with thinner gloves it will be fine, but its worth bearing in mind when choosing gloves for winter night rides if you plan on having the BT21 on your helmet and want to be able to switch through modes.
> Cheers


What are your battery/optic issues???
Mole


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm going back and forth on a support ticket. They keep telling me they dont have any light heads.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

thats because they dont. They got a limited number and due to the stock status not being posted, more sold than they were able to get. There wont be any more lighthead only option for these. They have close to 100 kits remaining in stock though after filling previous orders.


----------



## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

Yesterday I've noticed that head only lights are available. I just went through this thread in the morning to get a little bit of knowledge about this light since I didn't follow light topics for a few months.

I wanted to order and try it and guess what, it is already sold out. Fortunately I already have enough lights, so I will just wait and maaaaybeee order it sometime later if it will be available again.


----------



## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

Still waiting for my light to be sent out (full kit).Hopefully soon if they are back in stock


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> thats because they dont. They got a limited number and due to the stock status not being posted, more sold than they were able to get. There wont be any more lighthead only option for these. They have close to 100 kits remaining in stock though after filling previous orders.


Is this something you can see on the GB site or info you're privy to with you connex to Nitefighter rep? If it's on the site, can you tell me where?

On a tangent, 200 pieces??!! Seems low. It's funny because almost everyone I know is a mountain biker and sometimes I get a skewed view of the world because of that. I would think they'd need to make 5,000 of these lights to fulfill world-wide demand. But maybe they do. . .


----------



## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

I ordered 20th octobre and this is what gearbest told me after I linked them the replies in this thread which say the bt21 is available again:

Dear Tim,


Thanks for contacing us.

We expect the Nitefighter BT21 2 Cree XM L2 1800Lm 5 Modes LED Bike Light arrive 5 days later.Do you still want to wait for it?


If there are any additional problems or further queries, please feel free to contact us and we will do our very best to assist you. 



Best regards

Hella

Gearbest Customer Service

They just keep telling me to wait over and over again..


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Did you order lighthead only or the kit?


----------



## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

I got an order in for a light head yesterday, so now I'm in this crazy gamble. I figure if it doesn't pan out I'll switch to a yinding.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

There is 0 light head only, wont be anymore ever, just kits.

For those that haven't followed this thread at all, yes I have full insider info. Gearbest directly and occasional updates from nitefighter.


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> There is 0 light head only, wont be anymore ever, just kits.
> 
> For those that haven't followed this thread at all, yes I have full insider info. Gearbest directly and occasional updates from nitefighter.


So you mentioned earlier they have already gone through 100 of the 200 kits that just came in. And possibly another 100 coming in after that. Do you know how many more orders are in queue? I ordered 5 days ago.

I don't mind waiting if I've got an idea of how long it will be, but I would buy another light in the meantime if I know it's going to be months out.


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> There is 0 light head only, wont be anymore ever, just kits.
> 
> For those that haven't followed this thread at all, yes I have full insider info. Gearbest directly and occasional updates from nitefighter.


The purchase link was active yesterday and I placed an order. I was told via PM from the gearbest employee that a few lightheads would be available prior to making this purchase. That's why I placed the order in the first place. They must have sold out fast, because it's now marked as out of stock.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Guys im not gearbest or anything like that, I do review for then and deal with our rep. So when there is a mass number of issues, ya I send a message, ask a couple questions but that's it. I dont know nor do I have the time to try and sort all this stuff out for each person. 

Info I posted is all I have.

Varider, on that I have no clue, you may need to get your order number over to her and have her check directly.


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> Guys im not gearbest or anything like that, I do review for then and deal with our rep. So when there is a mass number of issues, ya I send a message, ask a couple questions but that's it. I dont know nor do I have the time to try and sort all this stuff out for each person.
> 
> Info I posted is all I have.
> 
> Varider, on that I have no clue, you may need to get your order number over to her and have her check directly.


Got it. Thanks for all the info you have provided.


----------



## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

I'm going to get you tigris99, if it's the last thing I ever do. 

Thanks for keeping us posted. I'm hoping maybe they will fill my order, if not I will find a different NW helmet light. I have a BT 40s on the way, I just need a helmet light to see if I'm on the NW bandwagon. If I find I prefer NW, I will probably have my gloworm upgraded.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well as said, kits are no problem. Light head only option on the other hand is. If you didn't get in for the limited number they got, nothing more can be done.


----------



## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> Did you order lighthead only or the kit?


I actually ordered this whole kit for 59$


----------



## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> Did you order lighthead only or the kit?


I actually ordered this whole kit..


----------



## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> There is 0 light head only, wont be anymore ever, just kits.


Interesting company policy, stop selling product for which is very big demand... 
If they think they will sell way more kits if they stop selling light head only then they are wrong. I would buy light head only, but I am not interested in the whole kit and I guess I am not the only one.

I know you've direct contact but I wouldn't be so sure there won't be anymore light head only option.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No I know for 100% certainty there wont be bt21 light heads available. Has nothing to do with demand though.


----------



## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

I smell a BT21 successor .


----------



## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> No I know for 100% certainty there wont be bt21 light heads available. Has nothing to do with demand though.


If past is any indication there will be bt21 clones before I finish typing this sentence


----------



## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

Got my bt21 kit yesterday. 
It was actually delivered on the 13th but with a bunch of PO box confusion on this end, arg, I got it yesterday. Not really a problem as my riding season about done for the year; the first action this light sees will be with two skis instead of two wheels! 
I ordered on 10/12 so this, as far as I can tell, is the tail end of the summer production batch. It has no locking clips on any of the connecting wires. The friction fit on some is OK and on others, not so inspiring. The step up on the light modes is good; low is pretty low, not much difference between hi and turbo. It's bright and if the light were offered independent of the kit, I'd by another for the bars. Might just buy another kit if delivery becomes more reliable.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

CrozCountry said:


> If past is any indication there will be bt21 clones before I finish typing this sentence


Got a link?


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nitefighter lights haven't had clones really. Ive seen the old ones and nothing that could be confused with them. Not to say it wont happen, but its not solarstorm where the cases are sold to 1000 different ppl to put whatever inside them.

As for successor, I have no clue, we know they are releasing new lights next year, but im guessing we wont see those till later winter/spring.


----------



## nefertari (Apr 8, 2015)

varider said:


> The purchase link was active yesterday and I placed an order. I was told via PM from the gearbest employee that a few lightheads would be available prior to making this purchase. That's why I placed the order in the first place. They must have sold out fast, because it's now marked as out of stock.


To prevent disturbing this thread... I sent a PM and gave some advice. But I have to apologize here because I may mislead you in a way. Also apologize to everyone here who placed an order... Thought I told several people the supplier have current stock before I received an updated news from the supplier that they no longer produce BT21. Those lightheads we restocked are not enough for the previous orders. And there are limited stock of the kit.

So...now what actually help is sending your order number to me and let's discuss how to deal with it.


----------



## mentawais (Feb 16, 2005)

GB just dispatched my BT21 KIT yesterday ,I´m regret cause I miss the only BT21 head only!


----------



## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

nefertari said:


> To prevent disturbing this thread... I sent a PM and gave some advice. But I have to apologize here because I may mislead you in a way. Also apologize to everyone here who placed an order... Thought I told several people the supplier have current stock before I received an updated news from the supplier that they no longer produce BT21. Those lightheads we restocked are not enough for the previous orders. And there are limited stock of the kit.
> 
> So...now what actually help is sending your order number to me and let's discuss how to deal with it.


I ended up canceling my order ONLY because you guys told me the other day in my "ticket" that Gearbest will no longer be carrying the Nightfighter BT21 Because there was a problem with manufacturer.

Then, the very next day "*after I cancel my order with you*", Tigris99, gets confirmation that you guys just got a shipment of 200 kits. SMH!

I just wish that your company (Gearbest) would learn how to better communicate with their customer base.


----------



## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

The reason for it not being produced is because it is being superseded by the bt21s. Look on the lumingear website. Very slight changes to the light head but essentially the same design.


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

mentawais said:


> GB just dispatched my BT21 KIT yesterday ,I´m regret cause I miss the only BT21 head only!


When did you order?


----------



## mentawais (Feb 16, 2005)

mikeynets said:


> When did you order?


I did the order 10 /november


----------



## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

mentawais said:


> I did the order 10 /november


I ordered in octobre and they keep teling me the kit isn't available...pretty frustrating...


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

mentawais said:


> GB just dispatched my BT21 KIT yesterday ,I´m regret cause I miss the only BT21 head only!


Luck you. I've ordered BT21 head only on mid september, but it never arrived. Now when thought they would resend it there is no more......


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

ledoman said:


> Luck you. I've ordered BT21 head only on mid september, but it never arrived. Now when thought they would resend it there is no more......


I'm in the same boat as you. Did anyone ever get a light head only delivery?


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

nefertari said:


> To prevent disturbing this thread... I sent a PM and gave some advice. But I have to apologize here because I may mislead you in a way. Also apologize to everyone here who placed an order... Thought I told several people the supplier have current stock before I received an updated news from the supplier that they no longer produce BT21. Those lightheads we restocked are not enough for the previous orders. And there are limited stock of the kit.
> 
> So...now what actually help is sending your order number to me and let's discuss how to deal with it.


Hi,
I have a couple of quick questions. Since you no longer can get the BT21 when will the BT21s that replaces it be available? Are you going to supply the BT21s to those who already ordered the BT21? Do you know what Nitefighter has changed on this light (BT21 vs. BT21s)? Thanks for keeping us informed.
Mole


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Found this page, which says "upgrade from BT21" but I can't tell what is different.

EDIT - same info as on Nitefighter's webpage.

-Garry


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Found this page, which says "upgrade from BT21" but I can't tell what is different.
> 
> EDIT - same info as on Nitefighter's webpage.
> 
> -Garry


Thanks Garry. I too couldn't see any difference in specifications. I'm not holding my breath that Gearbest will have any info but it never hurts to ask.
Mole


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mole, since you had to go and open that door.....couldnt take my hints and wait 

Any answers on that one are unknown right now, waiting on info. But it wont be really soon, like next couple weeks type thing. 

I can't answer for sure, but knowing what I do know it wont be possible based on wait time and fact new version will probably cost more.

Killin me Mole lol


----------



## nefertari (Apr 8, 2015)

DustyTrail said:


> I ended up canceling my order ONLY because you guys told me the other day in my "ticket" that Gearbest will no longer be carrying the Nightfighter BT21 Because there was a problem with manufacturer.
> 
> Then, the very next day "*after I cancel my order with you*", Tigris99, gets confirmation that you guys just got a shipment of 200 kits. SMH!
> 
> I just wish that your company (Gearbest) would learn how to better communicate with their customer base.


Totally agree. I'm sorry to let you down this time. Anyway we are absolutely upgrading our service and we indeed take it serious. More effort will continue to be put into service.


----------



## nefertari (Apr 8, 2015)

MRMOLE said:


> Hi,
> I have a couple of quick questions. Since you no longer can get the BT21 when will the BT21s that replaces it be available? Are you going to supply the BT21s to those who already ordered the BT21? Do you know what Nitefighter has changed on this light (BT21 vs. BT21s)? Thanks for keeping us informed.
> Mole


Though there are some answers, I'd better answer you by myself. 

When will the BT21s that replaces it be available?
- Just asked the supplier again, they will start producing BT21S in the end of February, and they said they *MIGHT* supply to all the retailers starting from mid-March.

Are you going to supply the BT21s to those who already ordered the BT21?
- We are not sure about the exact price for the new version BT21S, personally I guess it will be a bit higher, so it will be extra money, then the CS Dept. will email you if you are willing to fill the price difference.

BT21 vs. BT21s?
- Also asked the supplier about it. I just translated their words into English: *There are some differences in appearance but not significant, and the performance of BT21S is more stable.

*Um... hope I don't mislead anyone this time, I got replied from the supplier just minutes before posting here..


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

nefertari said:


> Though there are some answers, I'd better answer you by myself.
> 
> When will the BT21s that replaces it be available?
> - Just asked the supplier again, they will start producing BT21S in the end of February, and they said they *MIGHT* supply to all the retailers starting from mid-March.
> ...


"THANK YOU" for your reply and sharing what information you have on this with us. Very useful information for those who didn't get their orders filled and your customers like me who look forward to trying new nitefighter products.
Mole


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Mid March is when daylight saving time starts. Bad call nitefighter. They could have sold a lot of lights between now and then.


----------



## roy harley (May 8, 2004)

I noticed the inventory ticker on the Gearbest site for the BT21 light Kits. Is that new? I don't remember it being there last week. It keeps bouncing back and forth between 100-97 as of (11/26/2015)


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Found this page, which says "upgrade from BT21" but I can't tell what is different.
> 
> EDIT - same info as on Nitefighter's webpage.
> 
> -Garry


I was just poking around on this link ( ^ ) and noticed they still have the BT70 listed. This raises a lot of questions...foremost, "Can I trust Nitefighter to supply the lamp I ordered"? If the Nitefighter vendor ( Gearbest ) can't supply the item why should I trust Nitefighter?

*Message to Nitefighter:* > You need to contact your vendors and "Make Good" on the products that were not received by people who ordered Nitefighter products.



> Personally, I'm not going to recommend to ANYONE that they purchase a Nitefighter product until the previous orders are received. Simply not an acceptable business practice to sell a product that is not available.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Somethings not right there, bt70 showing, bt21s showing 3d prototype pics only. Not sure how much I trust that site/whoever is posting the nitefightee adds


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> I was just poking around on this link ( ^ ) and noticed they still have the BT70 listed. This raises a lot of questions...foremost, "Can I trust Nitefighter to supply the lamp I ordered"? If the Nitefighter vendor ( Gearbest ) can't supply the item why should I trust Nitefighter?
> 
> *Message to Nitefighter:* > You need to contact your vendors and "Make Good" on the products that were not received by people who ordered Nitefighter products.


 Good point and I also agree! Considering what gone on with the BT21 it looks like there's a good chance Nitefighter may release an improved version of the BT70 or maybe a 3 wide (XS style) redesign (both preferable to you considering how problematic the original BT70 was). I'm just guessing here but one way or another I hope you guys get properly taken care of!!! Happy Thanksgiving
Mole


----------



## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

My 21 (full kit) is in the post  Now the long wait, will it arrive in one piece and be working if/when it gets here? Time will tell.

Might have to look into getting the narrower optic and maybe the gopro mounts as well. Will wait and see what the stock optics are like first, will be my helmet light with the 40s already on the bars.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Arriving in one piece/functioning has never been of concern being the case they come in. Its just them arriving that's been the issue.


----------



## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Spice Weasel said:


> My 21 (full kit) is in the post  Now the long wait, will it arrive in one piece and be working if/when it gets here? Time will tell.
> 
> Might have to look into getting the narrower optic and maybe the gopro mounts as well. Will wait and see what the stock optics are like first, will be my helmet light with the 40s already on the bars.


I've got six of the 10 degree optics from Leddna that people here are using with their BT21's. 
.

I wont be needing them anymore since I wont be getting this light.

If your interested, PM me your addy and i'll just send you a couple.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Dusty they also work in yinding and kd2.


----------



## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Thanks Tigris.... I'll be sure to save some for myself then.


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## jbuzz229 (Nov 11, 2015)

*Just Received Shipping Confirmation*

Ordered mine 11/18 - received shipping confirmation this morning. I got expedited shipping so I'll keep everyone posted as to what I actually receive.


----------



## jbuzz229 (Nov 11, 2015)

Looks like they now have an inventory count up on GB FYI.


----------



## KgB (Jan 13, 2004)

well fingers crossed I ordered one last night, 30 minutes into this thread, after another 45 minutes this morning, now I have second thoughts. LOL good old MTBR


----------



## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

Debating between the BT21 and the Cygolite Metro 550 for daytime light. What is the frequency of the "strobe" mode on the BT21? I find on lights that have strobe and flash, the strobe is way too fast and flash is 1-3 Hz which is not too fast to induce seizures.

Edit:
Well, I should have looked on youtube before posting. Interesting pattern, but still seizure inducing. It would drive me nuts watching this while riding in shadows!


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

jbuzz229 said:


> Ordered mine 11/18 - received shipping confirmation this morning. I got expedited shipping so I'll keep everyone posted as to what I actually receive.


I ordered on 11/19, also expedited shipping. No shipping confirmation yet. Hoping I'm right behind you.


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## mentawais (Feb 16, 2005)

I think I´m a lit bit mad,I ordered another one BT21 set!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mentawais said:


> I think I´m a lit bit mad,I ordered another one BT21 set!


Your not mad, everyone needs more than one BT21. :thumbsup:
Mole


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

I wish I knew if I liked it well enough now as I am paying for DHL and getting two at once is better than one at a time.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

rsilvers said:


> I wish I knew if I liked it well enough now as I am paying for DHL and getting two at once is better than one at a time.


If you order 2 at once you shouldn't have to pay any extra for expedited delivery (DHL). Not sure if you knew that.
Mole


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

I think in the end, I will want two heads on my bars, and one on my helmet. I am just not sure which of the two heads I want to buy a second one of without trying them first.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

rsilvers said:


> I think in the end, I will want two heads on my bars, and one on my helmet. I am just not sure which of the two heads I want to buy a second one of without trying them first.


What light-heads are you looking at besides the BT21? I own quite a few lights and may be able to compare them directly for you.
Mole


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Just the Yinding.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

rsilvers said:


> Just the Yinding.


OK, I own both the BT21 and Yinding. I test all my lights with a light-meter, infrared thermometer, and now have a digital multi-meter so I can do current draw also. Just so you know how I arrived at my answers.

The BT 21 has a 42% power (lux) advantage in a bounce test (approximates overall power) and a 31% advantage in a center beam measurement (approximates throw capability). This is with stock optics which are actually not as good as the Yindings so with optics upgraded the advantage for the BT21 would be even greater (especially throw). Ride testing outdoors the BT21 will handle about 10° more ambient temp. before the thermal protection activates (important to me since I live in Arizona). The BT21 will drain the battery quicker (since it makes more power) but is actually more efficient (max setting on the Yinding makes almost identical lux as the second highest setting on the BT21 but registers a 1.85A draw compared to 1.29A for the BT21). UI on the BT21 is also much better (horrible mode switching button on the Yinding is really my only complaint on either light).

I like the BT21 better but included the above data so you can make up your own mind.
Mole


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Thank you. That was helpful. I will keep that in mind when I try them.

I am sure when I first try them I will form an immediate opinion.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

What runtime would a BT21 get with the standard 4-cell BAK pack when on full power?

What runtime would it get with a 6-cell NCR1650B pack on full power (I assume at least 50% more).


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

rsilvers said:


> What runtime would a BT21 get with the standard 4-cell BAK pack when on full power?
> 
> What runtime would it get with a 6-cell NCR1650B pack on full power (I assume at least 50% more).


I did a runtime on my first BT21 back in June and got 2:20 on the kit battery. Can't help you on the 6 cell though.
Mole


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Should be 3.5 hours with a 6-cell then.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Actually be closer to 4 hrs


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Depends if BT21 has fully regulated driver or not. If fully regulated it would run less time as the voltage drops it should pull more current (ie. more energy) in compare to gradualy lowering output as the battery voltage drops.

Has anyone tested behaviour of BT21 at let say last third before battery is exhousted? This should tell what can we expect regarding runtime. Very likely you can't do just linear extrapolation.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I ran the tests on my meter, driver only regulates till battery voltage hits a certain point, then drops regulation and current drops as well. Thats how we get more than 2 hours run time already. The last bit of run time is out of regulation so current draw decreases with voltage. IM yet to see any different out of any light I have, they all do the same thing. hit about around 6.0-6.25V and drop regulation, at which point the current draw starts to drop as well.


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## hizzity (Mar 2, 2006)

I ordered mine on 10/24, just got an email that they shipped it out. Last time I ever order for these guys.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> I ran the tests on my meter, driver only regulates till battery voltage hits a certain point, then drops regulation and current drops as well. Thats how we get more than 2 hours run time already. The last bit of run time is out of regulation so current draw decreases with voltage. IM yet to see any different out of any light I have, they all do the same thing. hit about around 6.0-6.25V and drop regulation, at which point the current draw starts to drop as well.


Ok. this means the runtime of BT21 will be prolonged at lower power which you won't notice at once unless you have another light to compare to. Of course you should notice it at very last stage when light gets pretty dimm. This is tipical behaviour of all unregulated 2 led lights (or any other two led parallel setup) powered by 2SxP packs. This is good as your runtime could be very long but you loose the amount of light. Still better than run it at full power and get sudden cut off. 
If you have two lights this might not be an issue. One regulated can run on full power all the time it lasts and the second gives you prolonged time so you are getting home safely. Of course I'm talking about extreme situation.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

hizzity said:


> I ordered mine on 10/24, just got an email that they shipped it out. Last time I ever order for these guys.


If you're in the USA you "should" get it in about 18 days if you went with free shipping. Sooner if expedited shipping. Hey, can't say you weren't warned about the GB shipping problems. At least you will probably get yours. The BT70 I ordered will never show because they stopped making them.

I don't know about anyone else but I have a feeling the Nitefighter brand lamps are being produced out of a small shop or someone's basement. That's the only explanation I can think of as to why there is such a delay and lack of stock.


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

If you look at the link someone posted earlier it shows the size of the factory + how many units they can make: Nitefighter LED Bike Light - China - Manufacturer - BT21 - BT


----------



## Lucky Luciano (Aug 26, 2009)

rsilvers said:


> What runtime would a BT21 get with the standard 4-cell BAK pack when on full power?


On High I got 3:30-3:40.


----------



## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

How many amps on high vs turbo?


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

rsilvers said:


> How many amps on high vs turbo?


My notes show High is about 50% of Turbo. I measured 1.30A on high and 2.7A on Turbo.

-Garry


----------



## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Looking at the bin chart, that works out to about a 2:1 brightness.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

DustyTrail said:


> I've got six of the 10 degree optics from Leddna that people here are using with their BT21's.
> .
> 
> I wont be needing them anymore since I wont be getting this light.
> ...


Just letting everyone know that I just got back from the post office and shipped these 10 degree optics out to the couple of folks here who requested them.

So I no longer have anymore to give away.


----------



## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

Does anyone have a link for the correct 10degree optics? My 21 is in the UK (4 days from posting so far, BT40S took 11 days in total).


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Here you go: 
10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA

-Garry


----------



## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

Thanks Garry. 

Light turned up this morning, in one piece and working. Well it turns on, changes brightness and now charging the battery.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> My notes show High is about 50% of Turbo. I measured 1.30A on high and 2.7A on Turbo.





rsilvers said:


> Looking at the bin chart, that works out to about a 2:1 brightness.


Technicaly correct, but wrong to your eyes. Human eyes are adaptive and act as logharitmic function. 
So technical* 2 : 1* ratio you would see with your eyes as *1.3 : 1*.

PS. Brightness is wrong word we are using so often in our conversations. We should talk about intensity (lux) and amount of light (Lumens). Brightness is relative to so many factors.


----------



## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Agreed that brightness is ambiguous, as many people mean intensity when they say brightness. Since I know that intensity is fairly useless by itself, I was describing the amount of light, but should have said lumens.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yup, and this leads to a lot of missundestandings......


----------



## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Yes. Like people on Amazon saying that some weak light is very bright because it has a hot-spot in the center, and when they point it at themselves, it blinds them. It is intense, but not a lot of light.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

rsilvers said:


> Yes. Like people on Amazon saying that some weak light is very bright because it has a hot-spot in the center, and when they point it at themselves, it blinds them. It is intense, but not a lot of light.


Indeed, it's a typical mistake of beginners. I often use such thing as laser sight-finder for weapon as an example of high-intensity light source which is totally useless for the illumination.


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

Just an FYI I ordered my BT21 on 11/19 and just got a message from GB that it shipped on 11/30. I opted for expedited shipping. I'll let you all know when it arrives.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

So their "3-5 days" of processing time is more like 11 days.


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

rsilvers said:


> So their "3-5 days" of processing time is more like 11 days.


Yeah, but it will be "well-packaged."

I know we're all on this thread anxiously waiting for our lights to show up and it can get frustrating, but if we're honest with ourselves, when we went the chinese light/chinese website route we knew there could be some risk involved. If a long wait is the worst of it, I'm cool with that. Paying a 1/4 or 1/6 of what a US/NZ/Canadian/British light goes for was worth a roll of the dice to me.

Plus, this is my chance to dip my toe into the water of modding lights. Baby steps I know, but I already ordered some optics. Next will be getting a DMM and charger. Then asking a million questions on here. Lastly will be setting my garage on fire.


----------



## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

True. For comparison, a Cygolight 1300 Extra is $225 and battery lasts 1 hour and 40 minutes.

A BT21 is $60 and battery lasts 2 hours and 30 minutes.

I just wish the Chinese lights I wanted were on Amazon Prime. Or at least AliExpress.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

mikeynets said:


> Yeah, but it will be "well-packaged."
> 
> I know we're all on this thread anxiously waiting for our lights to show up and it can get frustrating, but if we're honest with ourselves, when we went the chinese light/chinese website route we knew there could be some risk involved. If a long wait is the worst of it, I'm cool with that. Paying a 1/4 or 1/6 of what a US/NZ/Canadian/British light goes for was worth a roll of the dice to me.
> 
> Plus, this is my chance to dip my toe into the water of modding lights. Baby steps I know, but I already ordered some optics. Next will be getting a DMM and charger. Then asking a million questions on here. Lastly will be setting my garage on fire.


Besides changing optics, modifying this light IS NOT ADVISABLE. Not for beginners. Very easy to damage the driver or mess up thermal path for it. Plus alot of mods that I have done require machining be done to the case. That work was only done on the head that I accidently fried the driver on because I forgot it was still plugged into my test set up. Yinding and a couple KD lights are a much better option for learning how to do modifications.


----------



## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

I just ordered another BT21 kit. 
I think I may have a problem.


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> Besides changing optics, modifying this light IS NOT ADVISABLE. Not for beginners. Very easy to damage the driver or mess up thermal path for it. Plus alot of mods that I have done require machining be done to the case. That work was only done on the head that I accidently fried the driver on because I forgot it was still plugged into my test set up. Yinding and a couple KD lights are a much better option for learning how to do modifications.


Copy that. Like I said, baby steps! I'll change the optics and call it good. For some of us, that's plenty "modding." I probably shouldn't of used that word in the first place.


----------



## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Are people putting 10 degree optics into the BT21, the Yinding, or both? I have four 10 degree and four 25 degree optics coming.

A BT21 with stock optics, 10 degree, 25 degree or 10/25 degree is best for bar lights?

What is best for a helmet light?


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its posted in multiple threads as optics can be changed in several lights. We are changing optics based on needs for helmet light. Either yinding or bt21 works good for a helmet light. As for optics, besides 10deg is perfect for helmet, the beam for the bars is up to the user.


----------



## Wire (Nov 2, 2015)

Wire said:


> BT21 head-only at GB now: Nitefighter BT21 1800LM 2 LEDs Cree XM L2 Water - resistant Mountain Bike Lights-25.99 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
> 
> 25.99 USD ? Ordered. Now sit and wait...


Short update on my order:

Ordered BT21 head-only on 23.11.2015
Received Email from GB ("out of stock") on 30.11.2015
Upgraded to full BT21 kit on 30.11.2015
Shipped out (Netherland Posts) on 2.12.2015

Looks fair so far.


----------



## KgB (Jan 13, 2004)

mine were ordered 11/27/15 and show leaving warehouse, SHENZHEN GUANGDONG 12/1/15 I would say that is pretty timely. Your results may vary according to other experiences with Gearbest


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

mikeynets said:


> Just an FYI I ordered my BT21 on 11/19 and just got a message from GB that it shipped on 11/30. I opted for expedited shipping. I'll let you all know when it arrives.


Arrived today. As Tigris said, that expedited shipping made a big difference!


----------



## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

What shipping method and to where?

13 days.


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

rsilvers said:


> What shipping method and to where?
> 
> 13 days.


DHL (which on GB website is just called Expedited Shipping) to California.

Everything looks great so far with the exception of the battery to light head connection. Like someone else mentioned on here, it doesn't click into place and the fit is not very snug. Left as is it would probably rattle loose immediately, even on a paved road I think. It'll require tape to stay on or I'll have to put on some new connectors.

The extension cable does has an indent on the male end and it definitely makes for a more secure fit, but it still doesn't click into place like a magicshine style connector.

I think somewhere earlier in this thread there was some mention that early version shipped with the locking connectors and then they changed. Does that ring a bell? And what are people doing to make their non-locing cables more secure?


----------



## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

My $35 Amazon light kit had a screw ring to lock them.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Im wanting to know why the different connectors, they are not good for mtb use...


----------



## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> Im wanting to know why the different connectors, they are not good for mtb use...


Exactly. A small but critical weak point on what seems like an otherwise solid, well thought-out product.


----------



## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Well if they cut corners on the cable, then they may have skipped the thermal paste and downgraded the emitter. Maybe stopped using BAK cells.


----------



## Ruttegeur (Nov 10, 2015)

rsilvers said:


> My $35 Amazon light kit had a screw ring to lock them.


That would be the perfect connector to have for serious riding. Never know what you'll get snagged on. My Magicshine's and second no-name set came with longer cables from the headlight as well, which is great for helmet mounting. You don't have a connector knocking against your helmet. For now I'm still trying to get Gearbest to fix the fact they sent me smooth friction fit connectors.


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## Ruttegeur (Nov 10, 2015)

mikeynets said:


> Exactly. A small but critical weak point on what seems like an otherwise solid, well thought-out product.


Light is great yes I agree, but it's a huge concern if you helmet mount. The cord can get snagged on branches or if the battery shifts in your backpack, and you twist your head to look around, it puts tension on the cable. The press fits would have a high probability of coming apart.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

What do you think of these connectors? The on/off switch also solves the power drain when off issue.

http://www.ledcable.com/products/dc-power-cord/dc-18：12v-waterproof-inline-onoff-switch.html

http://www.ledcable.com/products/dc-power-cord/dc-04k-dc-power-cord-with-locking-plug.html

DC-23:Lock Design DC Connector Cable For Indoor LED Lighting - Shenzhen LeDe Electronic Co., Ltd

DC-25:Lock Design DC Power Cable with Metal Nut - Shenzhen LeDe Electronic Co., Ltd


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## Ruttegeur (Nov 10, 2015)

rsilvers said:


> I wouldn't hold your breath. have $275 in lights on order from them and they won't even respond to my requests to alter my order after several days.
> 
> What do you think of these connectors?


I prefer no switch as I just turn my on for the entire ride and would hate to have another item that's may bounce around on a helmet mount. The 3rd one that twist locks look good, if it's waterproof.

DC-23:Lock Design DC Connector Cable For Indoor LED Lighting - Shenzhen LeDe Electronic Co., Ltd


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

Ruttegeur said:


> Hasn't come apart yet, but don't have the confidence to take it out on a ride. Rather not find out the hard way as the trails are steep and rough in North Vancouver.
> 
> Having a mechanical advantage, not just friction fit for a connection that moves and potentially snagged, is a base requirement for this type of light not an luxury item IMHO. With the extension cord being the clip-in type, it's going to stretch out the non clip-in female end on the battery, then if I ever connect direct from lamp head to battery the connection will be even looser.
> 
> Glad it working for your needs so far but wanted to let everyone know, who's not comfortable with the risk, as the pictures on GB show clip-together connectors on the light head.


This is the post I was thinking about and I 100% agree with you. So Ruttegeur, what did you end up doing to fix it? The trails I ride at night are not North Shore level, but enough for me to be concerned about the connection coming loose.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The connector doesn't need to be waterproof, will still function perfectly in wet conditions. As long the the battery pack itself doesn't get wet inside.

Simple example, rc cars. None of their battery connectors are waterproof, never have been, but will run submerged just fine as long as pack and other electronics are sealed.


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> The connector doesn't need to be waterproof, will still function perfectly in wet conditions. As long the the battery pack itself doesn't get wet inside.
> 
> Simple example, rc cars. None of their battery connectors are waterproof, never have been, but will run submerged just fine as long as pack and other electronics are sealed.


Fair enough, but the connection on my light is so flimsy that it takes almost no effort for the cables to disconnect. My concern is losing light as I go off a rock drop or at speed through a rock garden, braking bumps, etc.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya, that's why I only said dont sweat the water proof part. But these new basic connectors are a joke, I dont know what they were thinking changing them. Changing the connector on the head isn't too bad. Cut off old one, solder and heat shrink new wire/connector on. Pack on the other hand takes a steady hand and you have to open it up fully so you can solder directly to the protection board. Trying to cut and splice risks a short that can fry the protection board, then pack wont work at all.


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

They changed the connector on the Yinding after the first batch sold out and the market became flooded with the inferior ones (unti GJHS and gearbest were able to source the original).


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## Ruttegeur (Nov 10, 2015)

mikeynets said:


> This is the post I was thinking about and I 100% agree with you. So Ruttegeur, what did you end up doing to fix it? The trails I ride at night are not North Shore level, but enough for me to be concerned about the connection coming loose.


Unfortunately using my old lights, and still negotiating with Gearbest on replacement options. All options still costing quite a bit. Night riding usually over by Dec for me, so will miss this season. Been a very bad buying experience.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Would ofroadbent's trick of applying a layer of shrink wrap around the male end work for the BT21 or is part of the problem being the connectors are just too stuby? If so guess you could seal the connectors together with electrical tape when in use. Kind of a PITA but the tape is cheap.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

andychrist said:


> Would ofroadbent's trick of applying a layer of shrink wrap around the male end work for the BT21 or is part of the problem being the connectors are just too stuby? If so guess you could seal the connectors together with electrical tape when in use. Kind of a PITA but the tape is cheap.


It worked on my BT21 but I put it on the female end.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> Pack on the other hand takes a steady hand and you have to open it up fully so you can solder directly to the protection board. Trying to cut and splice risks a short that can fry the protection board, then pack wont work at all.


You could shrink-wrap on a short adaptor.


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> Pack on the other hand takes a steady hand and you have to open it up fully so you can solder directly to the protection board. Trying to cut and splice risks a short that can fry the protection board, then pack wont work at all.


This video might be useful: 




A video showing someone using a bike light battery to put inside a portable light, but.. it shows how you should approach cutting the battery cable. Don't just cut through it all in one go, be patient


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Ofroad'bent said:


> It worked on my BT21 but I put it on the female end.


Ah now I get it. You wind a layer of tape around the exterior of the female's cylinder with enough protuding over the end to fold over to the inside, then shrink it down for a tight seal. Ingenious, thanks!


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## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

If quality is going down, at least response time is getting better; ordered 12/1, shipped 12/3. Can't beat that.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

I ordered from GearBest on 11/28 and another on 12/1 and neither has shipped.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

rtsideup said:


> If quality is going down, at least response time is getting better; ordered 12/1, shipped 12/3. Can't beat that.


It is funny how 2 days to ship something is considered good. For everything else that I order, I expect things to be shipped the same day that I order them unless it is late in the day.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

rsilvers said:


> It is funny how 2 days to ship something is considered good. For everything else that I order, I expect things to be shipped the same day that I order them unless it is late in the day.


Wow, you've gotten way to spoiled buying off amazon and eBay . I dont even question orders being shipped from small outfit until its past the 3 day mark. From china outfits I expect 3-5 depending on what shipping method I choose.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

andychrist said:


> Ah now I get it. You wind a layer of tape around the exterior of the female's cylinder with enough protuding over the end to fold over to the inside, then shrink it down for a tight seal. Ingenious, thanks!


No, you slide a piece of unshrunk tubing over the female end, connect the male one, then slide it badk so it covers mostly the female end including the tapered part, and just over the area of the male you want to seal. You shrink it in place and it stays on the female part and comes off the male with a "pop".

I'll try and get pics but am away for the weekend.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks for the clarification, no pictures necessary right now. Enjoy your time away, ofroad'bent!


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

For sure Amazon changed what I expect.

eBay is very distant from Amazon and use it much less and only under certain conditions. In order to use eBay, the item would have to either not be on Amazon, or be much cheaper, or I don't care if it comes quickly, and the odds of having to return it are low (Amazon has grief-free returns (except for Amazon marketplace, which has the same grief as eBay)).

I ordered some USB glove inserts last nigtht from AliExpress, and they are already marked as shipped. That is all China. 

These lights are an anomaly as they are not for sale there or else there would be rating pressure to ship them faster.


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

Maybe Gearbest could learn something LEDDNA also. Ordered 2 10degree optics on Nov 21st, Shipped on 24th, and arrived today. 10 days shipping to UK is quite decent


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## Blitz357 (Mar 24, 2014)

Ordered a BT21 and BT40S from GearBest on 11/23 and received it today 12/4. From China to Bend, Oregon in a week and a half ain't bad in my book. Now only if my $2.33 600 lumens flashlight and my $1.72 mp3 player would get here. LOL

P.S. Shout out to Vancbiker for the vented gopro adapters. Really nice adapters! Now I just need some snow to melt to try it all out.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Monday November 30th at 10pm I ordered some bike shorts from AliExpress with free shipping. This is two days after ordering my lights from GearBest.

They arrived today from China to USA.

My GearBest order has not even shipped yet.


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## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

So if I can't ride, I may as well geek out on my ultimate ghetto light set up. I've got 2 BT21 kits and vancbiker gopro mounts, it seems like the LEDDNA 10deg optic is the cheap way to go for a helmet optic. I'd like to get a 2cell battery as a spare or a strap on to the helmet option. Is HunkLee my best option here? Is the HunkLee stock connector the one I need? Is There a LEDDNA optic that would make a good "flood" pattern for the bar light? Stock? Glowworm? The other thing I haven't figured out is the GoPro bar mount. Has anyone found a lightweight, quick-release GoPro mount for the bars? I've found light, and I've found quick-release, but not light quick-release.
Thanks for entertaining my questions. I can't believe that I've read all 50 pages of this thread and still have questions!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hunklee is a useless option in these instances, doesn't have right connector.

Stock bt21 optics work fine for bars, otherwise leddna 25deg, glowworm spot, whatever trips your trigger. Optics are cheap (with the exception of glowworm) so grab some different ones and try them.

Quick release mount is going to be heavier. You have to decided is the few grams difference is really that big of a deal. Night riding and being a weight weenie just dont go together no matter how you look at it . To go light you make alot of other sacrifices.


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## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

OK, so what is the best option for a quality 2 cell battery? 
Thanks for the advise on the optics.
Plenty of bar mount options, so many in fact that that I can't believe there isn't a QR version of this http://www.amazon.com/Neewer®-Alumi...358315&sr=1-14&keywords=gopro+handlebar+mount 
seems pretty easy, hinge at one side cam at the other, done. Thought that it was out there and I just hadn't found it.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nothing mass produced yet. There is a company that uses them, but I don't believe their for sale separately from their lights light.

2 cell pack maybe the other guys can chime in, many of us grabbed a few fenix cases from the limited run of them we were able to get separately. Great little 2 cell cases but not available anymore.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

My order that was supposed to ship in "3-5 days" has been 7 days so far without shipping.

Clearly they don't really have what was in my order in stock.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

What did you have besides the lights?

And its been covered 100x in these threads, sometimes they end up not having something you order in stock. And their website doesn't tell you. Its freaking annoying and they r supposed to be making changes after Xmas, but being we've covered it so many times already we need to please keep these threads on topic.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Two BT21s, one Yinding, three aluminum GoPro adaptors, and two aluminum GoPro handlebar mounts in my second order.

One 6xNCR18650B battery in my first order.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

As of last check the aluminum nitefighter gopro adapters were out of stock.

Works alot better if you contact them vs loading up this thread.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

It is awesome that they are delaying my order for some unknown amount of time because they are out of a $1 part that I don't really need.


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

If you mean the nitefighter gopro adapters then I don't think they're in stock, or they weren't a week ago. I ordered some on 14th Nov but hadn't shipped after 2 weeks so I opened a ticket to be told it's out of stock, but didn't give any info when they'd be back in stock


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

It is not listed as out of stock now or when I ordered it.

And one of my orders is just for the battery, and that did not ship either.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> As of last check the aluminum nitefighter gopro adapters were out of stock.


I always have stock on GoPro adapters for all the Nitefighter BT series lights. Admittedly not cheap like the China ones, but if you're in the US, you can have them in a couple days.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

If they get back to me saying that is the problem, I will ask them to just ship what they have and cancel any missing items. But each conversation I have with the is like 2-5 days to get to a consensus.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

rsilvers said:


> If they get back to me saying that is the problem, I will ask them to just ship what they have and cancel any missing items. But each conversation I have with the is like 2-5 days to get to a consensus.


I would try contacting Nefertari. She has always been helpful getting my Gearbest problems solved and keeping me informed. Never more than 24 hrs. to respond to any message I've sent to her.

[email protected]

Mole


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

nathan89 said:


> Maybe Gearbest could learn something LEDDNA also. Ordered 2 10degree optics on Nov 21st, Shipped on 24th, and arrived today. 10 days shipping to UK is quite decent


My experience has been the exact opposite. Ordered the BT21 from GB and it was in my hands 13 days later. Ordered some optics from LEDDNA - and some from KaiDomain - BEFORE ordering the light and neither have arrived yet despite both giving me shipping confirmation.

Yeah not really sure how fulfillment happens in China. Seems a little different than "first in, first out."


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

What shipping method did you use for each? And something ive found with leddna, you have to order more than just 2 40cent optics or there's a chance your order will never actually be shipped. That place should really have a minimum order instead of just not shipping.


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## fully (Sep 14, 2004)

Be advised on purchasing with gearbest.com... I got a DOA light. No resolution to date has me sharing this here:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wrong light for this thread . You video is bt40s. That said, what steps have you taken regarding getting a resolution?


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## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

Leddna 10deg optics finally sent out today, ordered on the 1st. Got 6 of them on free delivery, thought better to have a few spares in case I need to modifythem.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

If I wanted a BT40s I would get it from Amazon. Free 2-day shipping and free returns if defective.


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## fully (Sep 14, 2004)

Yeah, video pretty much sums it up... Working battery but non-working light head -- DOA. I open a ticket, they asked me to take photos (I do), then they asked me to take video (I do) and am told to wait for 'technical review'... Still no resolution days later. It's a bad scene. 

And I bought from them based on you (tigris99) and others saying good things about the product and experience, so I wanted to bring it back to this forum so others can be aware that gearbest.com customer experience leaves a lot to be desired.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh I understand,been alot of issues the last couple months. Just this is bt21 thread, there's a bt40s thread. Trying to keep things from getting confusing for ppl trying to distinguish between the 2


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I just received my Bt21.
Shipped last Monday and received in MA a week later

Got the same non click light connector as others. Will have to change it or tape it to the extension (the extension/battery interface does not "click" but is a very tight fit.)
Just compared the battery's connector to the battery I recvd with the BT40. The 40 has a much tighter fitting female connector, although it looks the same.
So the double whammy of a looser female ( ha ha!) and a none ridged male connector came with the 21.

Quick basement compare with the bt40.....the 21 is whiter as opposed to the BT40 yellowish. Try it out on the trails tonight

Update: this light came with the quirky charger like the 40 did. Junk.
As far as the light....I like. Much better than the 40 on the bars.

So after dropping $110....I got a weak BT40, a good BT21(after I fix the connector), 2 OK batteries and 2 junk chargers.

Anyone want to buy a BT40 head?


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Also in MA. I will probably 3D print a sleeve that locks them together.


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## Ruttegeur (Nov 10, 2015)

SlSto said:


> They changed the connector on the Yinding after the first batch sold out and the market became flooded with the inferior ones (unti GJHS and gearbest were able to source the original).


Good to know GB was able to recognize and remedy the issue in a similar situation. I've sent this post along with a few others to the person handling my ticket so they have something to go back to the manufacturer to show that the basic connectors are an issue. Glad I didn't go for the replacement option cause it sounds like I would have paid for another set with bad connectors.

Incidentally has anyone posted a review on the GB site warning that they may not get what is pictured? I did a month ago and yet to see it published.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Ruttegeur said:


> Incidentally has anyone posted a review on the GB site warning that they may not get what is pictured? I did a month ago and yet to see it published.


Try to write another one, using keywords like "great item", "excellent service", "very satisfied" etc. Chances are, it will appear on the site quite soon...


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

They still have not responded to my two open tickets about why my items have not shipped. I would cancel everything but it is obvious they will ignore my request, wait until it ships in the future, and then say it is too late to cancel.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

rsilvers said:


> They still have not responded to my two open tickets about why my items have not shipped. I would cancel everything but it is obvious they will ignore my request, wait until it ships in the future, and then say it is too late to cancel.


This was my experience as well...... once I started asking them questions....the more they started to ignore my tickets/requests.

I just cant believe that some of you here are "still" recommending GB to the rest of us knowing how unreliable and unpredictable they can be with not only their products but also with their staff.

I for one learned my lesson and will NEVER order through them again for anything! Period!

Oh, and fwiw.... I recently got my other light from KD after only waiting 10 days total and am very happy with it.

Wish I would have ordered this light back in August when I first started shopping for one. Took 3 months for me to finally wake up and realize that I wasnt going to get the bt21.

F*** GB and their Customer Service!


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

rsilvers said:


> They still have not responded to my two open tickets about why my items have not shipped. I would cancel everything but it is obvious they will ignore my request, wait until it ships in the future, and then say it is too late to cancel.


My guess is that with your multiple tickets and emails, they don't know what to do with your orders. I'd say walk away.

After spending $110 on these 2 lights......it wasn't a great investment.
If the BT21 head was available at a good price, I might buy one.

After seeing what I just wrote....I might ping Paypal with a dispute to get some or all my money back....and buy some good lights.

And I agree with Dustytrail.....I don't get the hype on these lights. I have gotten a few good leads on cheap lights over the years on this forum, but this BT21 and 40 /Gearbest deal isn't one of them


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

There are a few people here who get free lights for review. I trust their reviews, but I think they were given priority and artificially good product and service. 

I want the best deal possible, but I don't want a better deal than possible. This was a huge diversion and waste of time.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

I just cancelled everything.

I ordered a BT40S from Amazon. Yes, I paid more. But there is something to be said about spending $60 and getting it in 2 days with the ability to easily return a DOA unit free vs spending a little less and never knowing if and when it will ship, how many weeks it will take to arrive, and it may have an issue and then you have to try to resolve it with people who don't respond.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I would have sold you my BT40 cheap. It's not worth $60



rsilvers said:


> I just cancelled everything.
> 
> I ordered a BT40S from Amazon. Yes, I paid more. But there is something to be said about spending $60 and getting it in 2 days with the ability to easily return a DOA unit free vs spending a little less and never knowing if and when it will ship, how many weeks it will take to arrive, and it may have an issue and then you have to try to resolve it with people who don't respond.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

I see. I just read what you said about the BT40 where you reported they are shipping them with connector issues. I am holding off on Amazon while deciding what to do.

I was under the impression that GearBest BT21s an BT40s were dissected by several people here, looked good, had the right connectors, and were good to go. Seems like I was wrong.

I am looking for the lights which are as good as the best lights, but 1/2 the price. I am less interested in lights that are half as good as the best lights and 1/4 the price.

Maybe that is Gemini Duo, I am not sure.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Reread it. The 40 came with good connectors....at least mine did.



rsilvers said:


> I see. I just read what you said about the BT40 where you reported they are shipping them with connector issues. I am holding off on Amazon while deciding what to do.
> 
> I was under the impression that GearBest BT21s an BT40s were dissected by several people here, looked good, had the right connectors, and were good to go. Seems like I was wrong.
> 
> ...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

First thing, mayor is the only person out of a massive list of ppl that have posted about the bt40s that have had any issues to the extent he's going off about. Maybe a bad one or he doesn't like the tint/wide beam pattern. So in the case he has a weak one its not worth the risk to buy his anyway. 

Problem is there isn't many good/cheap lights out there. And with gearbest dropping the ball again it makes it even more frustrating.

With the lights themselves, we did full inspections of everything, tested completely. All was perfect till recently when nitefighter messed up and couldn't keep up with demand. Then they screw up the connector on the bt21.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

rsilvers said:


> .....I was under the impression that GearBest BT21s an BT40s were dissected by several people here, looked good, had the right connectors, and were good to go. Seems like I was wrong.


This has occurred several times with the cheapo Chinese lights. Early units are sent out and reviewers find them to be pretty good and post those results. The seller/manufacturers find themselves with a large rush of orders they are unable to properly deal with. In the rush to fulfill those orders (and rake money out of the buyers) changes happen, clones appear, initial quality disappears, parts spec changes, you name it and it kind of implodes.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> First thing, mayor is the only person out of a massive list of ppl that have posted about the bt40s that have had any issues to the extent he's going off about. Maybe a bad one or he doesn't like the tint/wide beam pattern. So in the case he has a weak one its not worth the risk to buy his anyway.


You might wanna try to recount.....there's a few more than just me.
But that's for another thread....
But yeah.....bad connector on what seems like a good light.....


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Vancbiker said:


> This has occurred several times with the cheapo Chinese lights. Early units are sent out and reviewers find them to be pretty good and post those results. The seller/manufacturers find themselves with a large rush of orders they are unable to properly deal with. In the rush to fulfill those orders (and rake money out of the buyers) changes happen, clones appear, initial quality disappears, parts spec changes, you name it and it kind of implodes.


Yes, you're right: it's typical route, unfortunately. But the life is going on: new companies/brands are appearing constantty, so it's still possible to get some good early samples...


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

rsilvers said:


> I just cancelled everything.
> 
> I ordered a BT40S from Amazon. Yes, I paid more. But there is something to be said about spending $60 and getting it in 2 days with the ability to easily return a DOA unit free vs spending a little less and never knowing if and when it will ship, how many weeks it will take to arrive, and it may have an issue and then you have to try to resolve it with people who don't respond.


I purchased my bt40s from Amazon and have had no problems yet.

Even crashed with it pretty hard while it was on the bars and broke the plastic adaptor but the light still works great!

Ended up getting an aluminum adaptor from Vancbiker and now it's solid!

I'm sure you'll be happy with your purchase.....especially knowing that it's going to actually come when expected!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mayor- I just found one recent one that was DOA. The posts are scattered because each thread ends up grossly off topic with different lights being discussed than the thread topic. Nothing like the list of bad QC on the bt21. 



Im seeing what everyone that's been doing this longer than me is talking about. First runs are great (though bt21 had QC issues with the button from the start) then later we see issues. Nitefighter was showing so much promise, bt40s has had a couple qc issues, nothing like others though. Hoping they get stuff figured out over there.



As for the gearbest thing...our contact does everything she can. But the service dept (contracted out it seems) sucks. Supposedly changes are coming. The big one is stock status being posted on the site for ALL products. Shouldn't have to contact them before you order to make sure items are in stock.

Recommending them is cause they used to be great, and this isn't the first time we've seen companies over there try something stupid that fails horribly. And they are really about the only place to buy the real solarstorm, yinding, and nitefighter lights.


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> What shipping method did you use for each? And something ive found with leddna, you have to order more than just 2 40cent optics or there's a chance your order will never actually be shipped. That place should really have a minimum order instead of just not shipping.


Expedited with GB. Regular for the optics. Yeah I couldn't help but wonder how they could make any money shipping for free optics that cost less than $1.00. Answer: by not shipping them!


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

I just put some heat shrink on the female connector from the battery and let a little hang over the edge (per someone's recommendation like 40 pages back in this thread.) At first I thought it would sort of stick out and cover the male end but it just folded over and made it hard to connect. So I trimmed the overhang down to just a little bit, then when I connected them that very slight overhang did roll inside — not what I wanted to happen but it did end up working in a way. It's not clicked-in tight, but definitely better than before. It takes a good bit of pressure to pull apart.

This is after I opened a ticket with GB to let them know the connector is totally inappropriate for the lights intended use. I also sent pictures. The response? Do you have a bad charger? We could send you a new charger.

Bad connector sucks, but it'll work. I wish I got a perfect light, but for the money I'm still stoked. The beam pattern is really nice, I dig the tint and everything else. One of the best things is that when you turn the light off but the battery is still connected, the green light goes off. Good for those rides when stealthiness is the order of the day. . .I mean night.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

rsilvers said:


> I see. I just read what you said about the BT40 where you reported they are shipping them with connector issues. I am holding off on Amazon while deciding what to do.
> 
> I was under the impression that GearBest BT21s an BT40s were dissected by several people here, looked good, had the right connectors, and were good to go. Seems like I was wrong.
> 
> ...


After reading some of your posts I think the Duo or maybe some other option from Action-LED-Lights is a solution you'll be happy with. IMO Jim is absolutely the best vendor to deal with (quick delivery, excellent customer service and support). Gemini lights have also provided me with rock solid reliability and good performance (I own 6 of their lights at the moment). I'd also check out the 2016 Olympia and 2015 Gloworm X2V3.1, both of which I consider a better performance buy for the money (unfortunately more money).

2016 Duo (4 cell 5200 battery) $180








2016 Olympia (6 cell 7800 battery) $230








2015 Gloworm X2V3.1 (4 cell 5800 battery) $215








With a simple optic change the BT21 will still out-perform the Duo and X2 and out throw the Olympia!
Mole


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## nefertari (Apr 8, 2015)

Ruttegeur said:


> Unfortunately using my old lights, and still negotiating with Gearbest on replacement options. All options still costing quite a bit. Night riding usually over by Dec for me, so will miss this season. Been a very bad buying experience.


I'm sorry for that. We indeed need to upgrade the after service. Email me and maybe I can help you sort it out, or speeding up..


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## nefertari (Apr 8, 2015)

rsilvers said:


> If they get back to me saying that is the problem, I will ask them to just ship what they have and cancel any missing items. But each conversation I have with the is like 2-5 days to get to a consensus.


Guess the CS Dept is too busy and Im the one who is listening to MTBR only, so if anything you think I could help with, you guys could just contact me.


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## nefertari (Apr 8, 2015)

MRMOLE said:


> I would try contacting Nefertari. She has always been helpful getting my Gearbest problems solved and keeping me informed. Never more than 24 hrs. to respond to any message I've sent to her.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> Mole


Thank you, its my duty.  I check my email every working morning unless I was drunk last night... Rarely.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

(I hate to continue off-topic discussion.) It seems some people here just don't get it about ordering from Chinese webshops. Those of us that have been dealing with them for more than just a couple orders understand it truly is a game of "Chinese Roulette" or aka the "Chinese Lottery". You just can't buy at these prices and expect quick shipping and top notch Q.C. And the typical trend is that later batches end up much worse than the initial ones. I always recommend Chinese lights with caution and with the understanding that the person is taking a chance. If they don't want to take a chance than move on to MTB Revolution, Action-LED, whoever. That's fine; I have no problem with people doing that. Just don't come on here bashing the Chinese webshops when you should have understood what you were getting into from the beginning! If you were lead astray and didn't realize it than I feel sorry for you. If I were not a DIY modder I would be a lot more hesitant about ordering Chinese lights!



DustyTrail said:


> I just cant believe that some of you here are "still" recommending GB to the rest of us knowing how unreliable and unpredictable they can be with not only their products but also with their staff.
> 
> I for one learned my lesson and will NEVER order through them again for anything! Period!
> 
> Oh, and fwiw.... I recently got my other light from KD after only waiting 10 days total and am very happy with it.


I've never had great service from KD, but acceptable service. However, with my KD2 duo clone I had to fight and fight and finally threaten PayPal dispute to get them to ship my light! So no seller is "the one to buy from", though some are lower on the scale. Look at FastTech who used to be wonderful! We had one on one service directly on the forum over at BLF with users getting orders in record time on the basic free shipping. Now they're just like all the rest. I have moved away from recommending GearBest myself, though it's tough when they are the main seller of the NiteFighter lights. I would strongly recommend any US buyer to buy the BT40S from Amazon over GB.

-Garry


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## KgB (Jan 13, 2004)

I believe all of the positive reviews have to be taken with a grain of salt
Make Money with GearBest.com

BTW, I am not implying that anyone in particular lacks integrity or has said anything dishonest or purposely led anyone astray.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Some of my reviews are based on products I have bought with my hard earned money. Some or provided free for review (I've never used a "make money with us" link and don't believe in that.) I clearly state at the beginning of my reviews if I bought or received the product for free. I also clearly state to the seller providing the free product that my review will be honest and true regardless (nobody has ever taken issue with me on that). Look at my GearBest Triple XM-L2 light review where I called them out on the fake cells in the battery pack. 

But yes, you need to figure out how much stock you can place in the review before believing it. I'm not aware of any "phony reviews" here on MTBR (since I've been around anyhow). 

-Garry


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

garrybunk said:


> (I hate to continue off-topic discussion.) It seems some people here just don't get it about ordering from Chinese webshops. Those of us that have been dealing with them for more than just a couple orders understand it truly is a game of "Chinese Roulette" or aka the "Chinese Lottery".


That may be true of generic Chinese web shops, but I have placed many orders from AliExpress with no problems and fast service (always within the time stated, except once, and AliExpress gave me a refund easily).

AliExpress is great. I ordered a complete team kit padded bib shorts and jersey for $28 and it came in about 10 days. Looks like it should cost $170.

Also I forgot which item, but about two weeks ago I ordered something on Monday night at 10pm and got the item Friday of the same week. Just use the ePacket shipping.

The only reason why I ordered from GearBest is that I got the impression from reading this site that it was the only safe source for a good Yinding and BT-21 with the correct gauge wire, connectors, thermal paste, etc - and every other site has the risk of being a lower-grade version. That didn't pan out since some are getting bad connectors.

I think it is ok to consider the lottery unacceptable now that AliExpress exists as a proven safe an fast buying environment.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

garrybunk said:


> -Garry


Your reviews are useful for me.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

rsilvers said:


> I think it is ok to consider the lottery unacceptable now that AliExpress exists as a proven safe an fast buying environment.


Ali would still be a "lottery" for Chinese lights. You're not suddenly going to buy a Chinese light with great QA/QC just because it came from Ali! Unfortunately GearBest is the only "semi-reliable" source for the BT21. And NiteFighter is to blame for the wrong connector (not GearBest's fault for that). We can all talk about how these other "shops" are great, but that doesn't help us with the Nitefighter BT21. If it was sold on Ali it would very likely still come with the wrong connector.

Your "impression" of GearBest being the only reliable source for the "correct" Yinding and BT21 is correct - they are the only known "semi-reliabe" sources. Go ahead and try to buy a Yinding on Ali. You'll be playing the lottery where you win some and lose some.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok I have gotten the connector issue sorted more or less.

Nitefighter is making sure everything they produce has the correct one from now on.
Working on getting current unsold stock repaired (not sure how easy that will be)

As for those that have received them already with the wrong connector, I have no idea yet but best they can really do is send you a connector to replace yourself (which really doesn't work on this light). Imo its better to just do one of the "quick fixes" and jot worry about it. If you know hoe to solder and can be careful removing the driver, then they can get you a new cable.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

garrybunk said:


> Ali would still be a "lottery" for Chinese lights. You're not suddenly going to buy a Chinese light with great QA/QC just because it came from Ali!


Oh true on the light. I meant getting the product in a reasonable amount of time and getting a refund if there is an issue. Ali is like eBay in that the buyer always wins. I know - I just sold a drone on eBay and the buyer put the counter-rotating props on in the wrong order, it flipped over on him, and he reported it to eBay as a defective product. I lost $48 on shipping since he made the false claim. I appealed it by showing eBay photos of the manual showing the prop order, and showing a YouTube video of it flying after I got it back. They said they are still siding with him, as it may have been broken when he had it but not once I got it back. They asked why I accepted the return if it was not defective? I said that I had to get it back to test it just in case he turned out to be correct. Still, I lost as the seller.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

garrybunk said:


> (I hate to continue off-topic discussion.) It seems some people here just don't get it about ordering from Chinese webshops. Those of us that have been dealing with them for more than just a couple orders understand it truly is a game of "Chinese Roulette" or aka the "Chinese Lottery". You just can't buy at these prices and expect quick shipping and top notch Q.C. And the typical trend is that later batches end up much worse than the initial ones. I always recommend Chinese lights with caution and with the understanding that the person is taking a chance. If they don't want to take a chance than move on to MTB Revolution, Action-LED, whoever. That's fine; I have no problem with people doing that. Just don't come on here bashing the Chinese webshops when you should have understood what you were getting into from the beginning! If you were lead astray and didn't realize it than I feel sorry for you. If I were not a DIY modder I would be a lot more hesitant about ordering Chinese lights!
> 
> I've never had great service from KD, but acceptable service. However, with my KD2 duo clone I had to fight and fight and finally threaten PayPal dispute to get them to ship my light! So no seller is "the one to buy from", though some are lower on the scale. Look at FastTech who used to be wonderful! We had one on one service directly on the forum over at BLF with users getting orders in record time on the basic free shipping. Now they're just like all the rest. I have moved away from recommending GearBest myself, though it's tough when they are the main seller of the NiteFighter lights. I would strongly recommend any US buyer to buy the BT40S from Amazon over GB.
> 
> -Garry


Lesson Learned....(not a gambling man).... i'll definitely be ordering my next set of lights from Action-LED as I am very happy with the battery I recently purchased from them and now know which lights I want.

I know and understand that clones and knock-offs and are inferior to the originals but like what rsilvers said, I too was under the impression when I originally ordered this light back on Sept. 1st, and after reading the reviews here at MTBR, I assumed that i'd receive it eventually but when eventually became forever and a day, I began asking questions and got nothing more then a Street Hustle Run Around!!!!

The thing that bothers me the MOST about this entire situation was the Lack of Communication from GB and staff........from the very beginning I kept getting condescending answers to my questions on my tickets until they flat out quit responding.

Never in the history of my Chinese Roulette Shopping Experiences have I encountered one quite like this.

So again.....for that, I will NEVER buy anything from GB again!

My one and only KD experience was 1,0000000000000000000000 times better .........even if the light I got craps out in a week. who cares. At least they treated me like a customer and sent me what I paid for!


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## KgB (Jan 13, 2004)

just an update, ordered BT21 from Gearbest on 11/28 and received 12/09. loose connector issue aside they look awesome and well worth 60.00, I guess I "won" the lottery this time


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

Ordered on 11/03 -- still haven't received my light. Pretty fed up at this point, so I opened up a PayPal claim.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Guys can we please keep this stuff in the shipping issues thread?

Rb, did u contact them? Tracking number?


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

I'm loving mine. For the price, it's a great little light.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Hey Structure..... which go pro mount are you using on your helmet? 

I'm not talking about the finned adaptor..... im talking about what the adaptor is connected to. 

thanks in advance!


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

DustyTrail said:


> which go pro mount are you using on your helmet?


That came with the helmet. It's quite sweet (as in rock stable and forget it). No experience with other mounts though.


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Right on man....appreciate ya! 

Have a good one.......


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)




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## Psycho1 (Aug 26, 2014)

I don't use that helmet but I took my son's from his helmet. Works great. I wish they sold them.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

btw you can buy the replacement mounts, just gotta know where to look  Mainly, your LBS


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

Just got my BT21 and had it's first commute run on it this morning. Not sure when i'll get the first trail ride since it's pretty wet out right now. So far here are some of my observations on this light.

First thing I noticed is the loose connector issue that many have been seeing. The part of the connector that is the issue is on the lighthead side so should be easy to splice in a different connector. Since I probably don't see myself using the extension i'll probably use the good connector from that. That said does anyone have a source that one could use to purchase these connectors? The battery side is fine. I confirmed this by plugging in my BT40 into the battery that came with the BT21 and it locked into place just fine. For the time being I just used some heatshrink around the connector. This is an old trick we used to do with our RC helis when the deans connectors were a little looser than desired. It's tight enough now that it's an acceptable solution if one doesn't feel like changing connectors.

The button. While mine doesn't seem loose like some people have experienced i'm not stoked on the feel of it compared to the BT40. It takes quite a bit of pressure to click through and it's placement on the top of the unit, combined with the harder click, and small size makes it more difficult to operate with gloves on. Keep in mind this is with it mounted on my bars for my commute. I'm sure it'll be a little easier to operate from an ergonomics standpoint when mounted on the helmet which is where it'll be when I use it on the trails.

For that annoying light in the button I just cut out a round piece of black gorrilla tape and put it on the button. It shields a majority of the light but still leaves some of the color at the edge so you can see the battery status. I also did this on my BT40 which helps a ton especially with it's larger button(s). 

The modes and interface on this light are not as nice as the BT40. The low mode is a little too low for riding at any reasonable speed. It was wet on the roads this morning so that does tend to eat up some of the light. That said it'll probably work fine for chugging up fire roads climbs or familiar trails while trying to conserve your night vision as much as possible. Most of the time though i'd probably use the medium setting which is about the same brightness as the BT40s low setting for most riding except for bombing decents which will be either high or turbo. The jump from high to turbo is almost undetectable. I also wish the strobe mode was harder to initiate. For me personally I wish it wasn't there TBH. I accidentally hit it once when I double tapped the button as a direct result of the button being a little hard to press. Never been a fan of strobe modes.

One quality issue, besides the connector, was the little rubber pad on the base was barely hanging on out of the box. Some CA fixed that problem. No biggie and an easy fix. It'd be nice if it was right out of the box, but guess that's what you have to expect on a 60 dollar light. That said, overall the quality experience with the BT40 has been higher.

For commuting duties i'm probably gonna stick with my BT40 for now. Buttons are easier to operate with gloves on and in rainy conditions I don't quite trust the top mounted button on the BT21. For night trail rides i'm usually not going out in rainy conditions so it's less of a concern. For my initial trail ride (hopefully this week) i'm gonna run BT21 on my helmet with stock optics along with the BT40 just to see what it's like and then throw the 10 degree optics in after that so I can see the difference between the two.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

BF, I assume you used the stock battery for testing, but was it fully charged when you tested high & Turbo? Reason I ask is that Turbo will not run at its max output if the battery is discharged (even partially) or if there's a lot of voltage drop at the connectors. High to Turbo should be plenty noticeable albeit not a large jump. 

-Garry


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

Yup, I topped off the stock battery last night. Unless the charger is faulty it should have been fully charged. Guess I can cross check it using the battery from my BT40 tonight.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Big Fil said:


> Yup, I topped off the stock battery last night. Unless the charger is faulty it should have been fully charged. Guess I can cross check it using the battery from my BT40 tonight.


I agree that it's not a huge jump on turbo.
Also....I think these battery chargers are funked up. I have 1 each from the 40 and the 21. They look the same but have different cert stickers on them.
The first time I used the 40 charger....it seemed to charge the battery. After that, the light turns green and I believe it stops charging before the battery is fully charged. Found out the hard way when the battery died 1 hour into a ride.
The bt21 charger looks like it's doing the same thing....so I stopped using them.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

When using any lithium-ion battery/charger that is not from a 100% guaranteed reliable source it is highly advised to own a digital multimeter (DMM) to check/verify operation of batteries & chargers. A quick check of the pack would show if it's fully charged to 8.40v +/-. 

-Garry


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> When using any lithium-ion battery/charger that is not from a 100% guaranteed reliable source it is highly advised to own a digital multimeter (DMM) to check/verify operation of batteries & chargers. A quick check of the pack would show if it's fully charged to 8.40v +/-.
> 
> -Garry


I've been night riding for 25 years....and somehow have managed to do it without doing that.
As a matter of fact, first time I've ever had a charging problem is with these Nitefighter chargers.
I use the chargers that came with Magicshine and Xeccon batteries.
Easy solution: Dont' use Nitefighter chargers and ride bikes


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Now...if only there was a charger that also had a digital read out....I might be interested


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They do, its called a hobby charger


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I can't speak to NiteFighters chargers at all as I don't have any of them. I do know that the "cheap Chinese" chargers are all over the board when it comes to whether or not they use proper charging algorithms, proper termination (if they even terminate), proper safety precautions inside, etc. . . No one should be buying cheap Chinese lithium ion batteries & chargers without figuring out for themselves if they are safe. They should be treated as potential bombs until verified. 

-Garry


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

I have two dual port hobby chargers (Hyperion 610i duo and Thunder Power TP820). I fly large RC helis that use 12s and 14s 5000mah lipos so I'm not lacking in charging capacity for these cute little light packs. Just need to get some time and extra connectors to make up some charge leads. My guess though is that the packs are fine as the light is putting out plenty of light. It's just there doesn't seem to be a real useable difference in light output between high and turbo with the BT21. If I can find a source for this type of connector I could even use my Eagle Tree data logger to graph voltage, current, and mah usage. Not sure if I want to geek out that much on these lights though as I pretty much just want to enjoy riding my bike. Overall I'm still happy with the light setup I've gotten for the price. I have realistic expectations for what to expect at this price point.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mr Mole ran into a similar issue, after a few uses it gets better but right now as it warms up it increases output. Very noticeable over a lux meter it seems, but since its gradual, your eyes dont notice it much.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Big Fil said:


> I have two dual port hobby chargers (Hyperion 610i duo and Thunder Power TP820). I fly large RC helis that use 12s and 14s 5000mah lipos so I'm not lacking in charging capacity for these cute little light packs. Just need to get some time and extra connectors to make up some charge leads. My guess though is that the packs are fine as the light is putting out plenty of light. It's just there doesn't seem to be a real useable difference in light output between high and turbo with the BT21. If I can find a source for this type of connector I could even use my Eagle Tree data logger to graph voltage, current, and mah usage. Not sure if I want to geek out that much on these lights though as I pretty much just want to enjoy riding my bike. Overall I'm still happy with the light setup I've gotten for the price. I have realistic expectations for what to expect at this price point.


Your light has what I call "Turbo Lag". Next time you get a chance to test the light pay close attention after you change modes to turbo and if your light is like mine you should be able to notice that it continues to get brighter after the initial switch. Read my posts (#1017, page 41 and #1082, page 44 in this thread) on this. I've got lux and current draw #'s there that may help you understand what's going on better. As Tigris mentioned the more I use the light the more noticeable the difference between high and turbo I see (Hopefully your light will react the same). Definitely doesn't hurt power though. Both of my BT21s (with Gloworm optics) out-power my GW X2V3.1 on my light meter.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ah, forgot all about that issue affecting the 2nd batch. 

-Garry


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## HDsilakka (Nov 22, 2015)

BT21 Test with BT-40s battery pack:

8.29V 0.07A
8.23V 0.46A
8.23V 1.27A
8.00V 2.91A


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Can someone take a picture of the newer connector next to a standard magicshine connector? Do they have any resistance to being pullled apart?

I've always been pretty happy about the sturdiness of the magicshine connector. It's strong enough that an accidental tug on the wire won't dislodge it, but a serious yank which might occur in crash would break it apart. That's a plus in my opinion, the last thing you want is the entire wire ripped from the lighthead or battery during a crash. 

Gearbest was good about getting me my money back for the BT21 lighthead order I placed two or three weeks ago. It turned out they weren't getting any more lightheads. A couple of PM's to nefertari here on the forum and it was all sorted out. It only took a couple of days to have the money back in my paypal account. I also had a message in my Gearbest account, which I didn't even see until I already had my money back.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Bt40 pack is same as come with the bt21. Looks like all the mods have been turned up slightly from stock. Beginning to think they set a gradual "stepless" change from high to turbo.

Varider, the pictures are around here somewhere on one of these threads. They are standard dc male connectors like u see on your universal ac-dc adapters. Seems no more friction than your normal household use.


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

Thanks for pointing that out MrMole. I'll have to take a look and see if the turbo lag thing is affecting what I'm seeing. How long do you find it takes for the turbo to come up to fill brightness?


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## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

My 21 has the non lock connector as well (batch 2). Doesn't take much pressure to pull them apart at all. Can live with it though but should of been same connector as the 40.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Big Fil said:


> Thanks for pointing that out MrMole. I'll have to take a look and see if the turbo lag thing is affecting what I'm seeing. How long do you find it takes for the turbo to come up to fill brightness?


In it's present condition (25+ hrs. runtime) it takes about 2 sec. cold and approx. a half a sec. when warmed up to the point of being hot to the touch to reach "visual max" (just finished this indoor test). My 2nd generation BT21 will continue to get brighter (light meter tested) and draw more current (DMM tested) as it gets warmer. Lux gains after "visual max." are gradual and minimal (visually undetectable), current draw gains are significant enough to more than counteract emitter efficiency losses due to heat (the light gets brighter right up to the point where thermal protection is about to activate). When new my light acted as yours (very little light intensity change switching from high to turbo) but it only took a few rides till the initial intensity difference between modes started acting a little more normal.
Mple


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Sounds like a garbage connector. Hopefully they will revert back to the magichine connector.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They are, my contact couldn't figure out who made the stupid decision, but its been corrected for the future.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

They should just raise the price to whatever it takes to not cut corners. $80 from Amazon for a non-crappy version with a battery that has Samsung or Panasonic cells would work. I would never buy it though unless the listing specifically states "non junk connectors" as there is too much uncertainly with what you get if they are prone change the design whenever they feel like it.


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

rsilvers said:


> They should just raise the price to whatever it takes to not cut corners. $80 from Amazon for a non-crappy version with a battery that has Samsung or Panasonic cells would work. I would never buy it though unless the listing specifically states "non junk connectors" as there is too much uncertainly with what you get if they are prone change the design whenever they feel like it.


I totally agree with your perspective but I have to say being an early adopter in this case has me very happy with my $60ish dollar light. Such a great piece of kit!!


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Sure. I would pay $60 if it had a waterproof connector and if I was reasonably sure they would deliver it within 10 days after placing the order.

My recent policy is to find the lowest in-stock price for something, and to not chase out-of-stock even lower prices. That failed for me when I ordered an in-stock item from GearBest and turns out they didn't really mean they would ship it for whatever reason, possibly because I also ordered a GoPro mount that was $1.60 and not in stock (but also listed in stock). Had I had proper information I would have only added in-stock items to the order to not cause a delay.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Waterproof connectors are the biggest myth ever in bike lights. It matters NOT ONE SINGLE BIT. Ever seen those waterproof RCs, the battery connectors are as NON WATERPROOF as they come. The light head internals and battery pack internals needs to stay dry. The complaint with the connectors has nothing to do with waterproofing, its the insecure connection that can come loose easily.



The only purpose for waterproofing dc connectors is for long term connection so terminals dont corrode due to trapped moisture.

And 10 days is a totally unreasonable time frame from china unless ur paying for express.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> Waterproof connectors are the biggest myth ever in bike lights. It matters NOT ONE SINGLE BIT. Ever seen those waterproof RCs, the battery connectors are as NON WATERPROOF as they come.


I know.



tigris99 said:


> The light head internals and battery pack internals needs to stay dry. The complaint with the connectors has nothing to do with waterproofing, its the insecure connection that can come loose easily.


I know. Waterproof connectors stay together. I could call them "connectors that don't pop apart" if you want.



tigris99 said:


> And 10 days is a totally unreasonable time frame from china unless ur paying for express.


If they had them at Amazon they would always take two days to get.

From China, I always select ePacket from AliExpress. The last order I placed was on a Monday night at 10pm, and got the package on Friday. This was with the free shipping option. Four days for shipping happens. Generally it is more like 10 days from when the order is placed. I buy from China all the time with free fast delivery times.

ePacket is just so ridiculously fast it?s unbelievable | Smile,Citrus


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I usually get 10-15 days via that option, but not sure that option allows lithium batteries.


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## Ruttegeur (Nov 10, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> They are, my contact couldn't figure out who made the stupid decision, but its been corrected for the future.


A few days ago, I was told by GB that the BT21 is no longer being produced by Nitefighter. Hopefully you have more recent info than I as after looping around in customer service since October, my options are limited in getting a working set.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nitefighter has discontinued the bt21, if they are still showing in stock on the light kit, then they still have some, that's the last of this version. Not sure what nitefighter was thinking stopping production of this version with a 2-3month gap before new one is released. But at least the new version is supposed to correct the flaws of this one.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

rsilvers said:


> .....there is too much uncertainly with what you get if they are prone change the design whenever they feel like it.


The specs and tolerances on the cheap Chinese lights can change regularly, particularly so with the clones. It is typical that I have to revise/ loosen dimensions a couple times on a new adapter model as I find out about fit issues. Cable size changes from 3.5mm one month to 5mm the next. I finally gave up chasing that and make all cable channels 5mm. I fixed a couple MS lights for a friend a few years ago. Despite being purchased at the same time from the same vendor, they had completely different driver boards.

You'll get what you get with these lights. Hopefully it works when you get it. They all should be disassembled and inspected/repaired as needed before being put to service. If you bought a set of wheels from a cheap supplier, built with questionable/unknown components and were assembled by someone whose only goal was to assemble as many as possible in a day, would you just mount them and take off for a ride?


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## DustyTrail (Aug 21, 2015)

Vancbiker said:


> You'll get what you get with these lights. Hopefully it works when you get it. They all should be disassembled and inspected/repaired as needed before being put to service.


I honestly wish I would have read this starting on page 1.

It would have saved me soooooooooooooooooooo much time and wasted effort over the past few months.

Especially since I know nothing about "fixing" the mistakes of those who are supposed to manufacturing these things.

Didn't expect to have to learn about all this stuff when all I want to do is press a button for a light to come on so I can ride in the dark.

But then again.....valuable lesson learned!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not all lights are and nitefighter has been the best at it just plug and play. But their not totally immune either. Most dont need to be touched, some did. Its the risk with Chinese lottery. Hopefully the updated version takes care of all issues (which now has only been the connector)


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

So I've been using my BT21s daily as a commuter light for about a month, and have started to see a problem with the button. From "off" pressing the power/mode button illuminates the yellow colored button light, which turns off when released, but the light itself doesn't turn on. It took 6-8 button presses to get the light to turn on this morning.


Anyone experience similar issues?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well first if the light is yellow then your battery is way low, try charging your battery.


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

I should have been more clear. Once the main light turns on the button light becomes green or blue. The button light is only yellow _while_ I'm pressing it down. This seems to happen both when the main light turns on, and when it does not, so the button light doesn't seem to be a symptom of anything specifically.

I'll put a multimeter on the battery tonight to see what the voltage is actually coming in at, but this seems more about the switch itself than a power issue.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Try holding the button down a bit longer, not a switch issue, the led indicator comes in so switch is working fine. Controller is slow to react to switch input. So hopefully a bit longer press (then release of course) will take care of it.


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

Holding the button for 3+ seconds doesn't reliably turn on the main light (nor does 1-2sec or a momentary press). The yellow button light illuminates for only 3/4-1sec and turns off no matter how long the button is held.

This new behavior with the button is definitely a change from the out of box behavior.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

b0bg said:


> Holding the button for 3+ seconds doesn't reliably turn on the main light (nor does 1-2sec or a momentary press). The yellow button light illuminates for only 3/4-1sec and turns off no matter how long the button is held.
> 
> This new behavior with the button is definitely a change from the out of box behavior.


Something strange going on with the button. You might try ( gently ) to lift out the rubber button cover and take a look at the button ( or maybe not ). I think I remember someone saying they did that and couldn't get the rubber button back in. Maybe moisture or debris got into the button and it's not working right...(?) FWIW, I'd turn it upside down and tap the body with a hammer gently ( then shake ) to see if that makes a difference. Ya never know, stranger things have fixed lamps before.

Another possibility is that somewhere ( inside the lamp ) the connection wires are loose and causing the detection circuits think the lamp is under-powered...therefore powering down when the yellow light comes on. (?)....I'm just guessing at this point. If you have another battery try using that one and see it the lamp does the same thing.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

My 21 has started to do this after about a dozen rides. Makes it harder because it's on my helmet ( I don't know about the color led though, and luckily, I set it on medium and ride...after I push the button a half dozen times to get it to turn on)
This is after I took the time to replace the connector and put in Gloworm optics.
I really liked this light.....but the love is wearing off pretty fast.
Time to throw it in the trash...as it's only a matter of time when it won't turn on
After dropping $115....I have a BT40 that is no use to me( and has a faulty switch), 2 battery chargers that don't charge...and now the switch on the 21 is acting up.



b0bg said:


> So I've been using my BT21s daily as a commuter light for about a month, and have started to see a problem with the button. From "off" pressing the power/mode button illuminates the yellow colored button light, which turns off when released, but the light itself doesn't turn on. It took 6-8 button presses to get the light to turn on this morning.
> 
> Anyone experience similar issues?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well starting to definitely sound like one sad fact:

Nitefighter has done to us the same as many other manufacturers over there. First batches are good, then they start cheaping out on things and problems arise. Bt40s still seems solid (just occasional qc issue).

On the plus side, the updated bt21s for the first few months should be solid before that gets screwed up too. Freaking annoying the efforts we put into reviews only to have them start going to crap (manufacturing side) within 6 months.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

the mayor said:


> My 21 has started to do this after about a dozen rides. Makes it harder because it's on my helmet ( I don't know about the color led though, and luckily, I set it on medium and ride...after I push the button a half dozen times to get it to turn on)
> This is after I took the time to replace the connector and put in Gloworm optics.
> I really liked this light.....but the love is wearing off pretty fast.
> Time to throw it in the trash...as it's only a matter of time when it won't turn on
> After dropping $115....I have a BT40 that is no use to me( and has a faulty switch), 2 battery chargers that don't charge...and now the switch on the 21 is acting up.


Really sucks about the quality control issues with Nitefighter, especially since the BT21 is such a good performing light. I've been lucky and had no problems with connectors, chargers, or switches (seems like these issues are only connected with the last batch Gearbest got) but it's going to make it hard for me to trust buying this brand in the future. Hope your switch only remains quirky (or gets better) and you light continues to work. Does the power mode selection work OK when you finally get the light to turn on?
Mole


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Does the power mode selection work OK when you finally get the light to turn on?
> Mole


After clicking the button a few times to get it started, it may or may not take a few clicks to get it to the second level where it stays until the end of the ride.
Not so oddly, it shuts off easily by holding the button.
At this point, I'm not going to wait until it won't turn on at the beginning of the ride(or fail in the middle of a ride)....nor am I going to waste another second on these pieces of junk. I'm just going to get my money back.
These ( BT40 and BT21)are...out of the 7 or 8 cheap lights I have bought over the last few years....the absolute worst.
I picked up a Gloworm XS which is amazing and will probably grab a X2 for the helmet.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Nitefighter needs to realize that just as this thread drove customers to them with hundreds of orders fast, it can also pull their sales down as fast! 

-Garry


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

MRMOLE said:


> Does the power mode selection work OK when you finally get the light to turn on?
> Mole


So far once it's on, there's no problems clicking through the modes on mine. Since it was being temperamental I cycled it through all the modes and even the useless (to me) SOS flashing mode the last time it decided to be difficult. All worked with no issue, after that it ran on low for 20min and I turned it off and hung it in our bike room at the office. At the end of the day when I went to ride home I crossed my fingers pressed the button and it fired right up. Flakey, but if it actually stays that way I'll take it.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Nitefighter needs to realize that just as this thread drove customers to them with hundreds of orders fast, it can also pull their sales down as fast!
> 
> -Garry


I am sure Nitefighter could give a flying crap.
They are just another Chinese assembly shop with no idea what they are making.
I am scheduled to go to China in late January to visit the carbon shop I deal with....but it's several hours from where Nitefigter lists their location ( which may or may not be where they really are)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

the mayor said:


> After clicking the button a few times to get it started, it may or may not take a few clicks to get it to the second level where it stays until the end of the ride.
> Not so oddly, it shuts off easily by holding the button.
> At this point, I'm not going to wait until it won't turn on at the beginning of the ride(or fail in the middle of a ride)....nor am I going to waste another second on these pieces of junk. I'm just going to get my money back.
> These ( BT40 and BT21)are...out of the 7 or 8 cheap lights I have bought over the last few years....the absolute worst.
> I picked up a Gloworm XS which is amazing and will probably grab a X2 for the helmet.


Quite sure this will solve all your lighting problems. I'm lucky to own both those lights too and while the X2 will not be a performance upgrade over the BT21 (about equal) the XS definitely is. You can get usage out the optics you got too, the frosted floods that come stock (1 side only) provide no additional beam width and hurt lux output and throw. Enjoy your new lights!
Mole


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I blame you for my purchase of the XS , Mrmole! ;^)
The thing is amazing.....low is wider and brighter and throws farther than the BT40 on turbo.
Middle is fine for most riding. I have the neutral leds. And great service from Jim at Action-led.
I'm sure the BT21 and the X2 will be about equal.....but knowing the X2 will work makes it worth the price for me.
This is the end of my romance with cheap lights.



MRMOLE said:


> Quite sure this will solve all your lighting problems. I'm lucky to own both those lights too and while the X2 will not be a performance upgrade over the BT21 (about equal) the XS definitely is. You can get usage out the optics you got too, the frosted floods that come stock (1 side only) provide no additional beam width and hurt lux output and throw. Enjoy your new lights!
> Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> ...This is the end of my romance with cheap lights.


I can certainly understand why you take this point of view. It has to be very disappointing to buy a couple of cheap lights and then have problems with both.

Also disappointing to hear other people who are having problems with the switch on the BT21's. Mine has no problems but I don't use mine too much

One of the things that needs to be pointed out is that when someone does a review of a lamp one of the things you can't test is how the product is going to hold up over time. That's why when other people begin to have problems it's more likely because these are the people who are actually using the lamp on almost a daily basis, something that I don't do. That said I pay attention to these postings as these are warning signs that the product might not be all it is cracked up to be. When the weather warms up again I'll be testing the BT21 some more to see how well the one I have seems to work.

I agree with tigris though, sad that the first batches seem to work fine and then when there is a mad rush to sell more lamps the next batches have quality problems.  Like I said before, If I didn't know any better I would swear these things are being slapped together in someone's basement or small shop.

When the new(er) versions come out I'll be telling people to buy at their own risk. Going forward I wish there was a way I could test the lamp for durability but really no way to do that unless I was going to use it everyday. I did have a problem with a Solarstorm XT40 I owned that had switch problems. I did speak up about that. The lamp works but sometimes when I press the button ( when on ) the lamp won't change modes. Sometimes takes several tries but eventually it will change. My second XT40 so far works fine but it seems the buttons on the cheaper lamps can develop problems over time.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> If I didn't know any better I would swear these things are being put together in someone's basement or small shop.


They probably are assembled in a small shop or basement.
I would bet the "Nitefighter" is the typical Chinese business model of a "company" that is 1-4 people in a office that uses assembly shops and sells them through "Sale houses" like GearBest ( which are just order takers that sell everything from lights to phones to butt plugs)
And none of the above have any idea what mtb lights should be or need to be.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

the mayor said:


> I blame you for my purchase of the XS , Mrmole! ;^)
> The thing is amazing......


Your welcome! Sorry about your BT21 experience though. Since you got to use yours (with proper optics) I'm sure you can understand why I love my BT21s having had few problems with them (as I understand your total dissatisfaction). Hopefully Nitefighter will step-up and do something about this to earn back our trust. Quality control = Product confidence, low or no confidence = no sales!!!!
Mole


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I was impressed by the BT21....even with the crap connector.
But on the 2nd ride, when I had to hit the switch 3 or 4 times just to turn it on.....
As I said....."Nitefighter" probably doesn't give a crap. Neither does Gearbest.They will just sell something else.



MRMOLE said:


> Your welcome! Sorry about your BT21 experience though. Since you got to use yours (with proper optics) I'm sure you can understand why I love my BT21s having had few problems with them (as I understand your total dissatisfaction). Hopefully Nitefighter will step-up and do something about this to earn back our trust. Quality control = Product confidence, low or no confidence = no sales!!!!
> Mole


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Nobody was buying these nitefighter lights this time last year. They had no following at all for two years. That Waldens guy was the only one posting about them and I think he worked for them. I thought they were another place rebranding clones and charging top dollar for them. Then they came out with unique products such as the BT21 and that seemed to be a top notch product for a cheap price. I wished I had jumped on that over the summer. 

I think they became overwhelmed with orders and that lead to a reduction in quality. At least the Solarstorm effect didn't kick in, with every man in China producing clones of the Solarstorm X2 in their spare time. 

If nitefighter takes care of their quality problems they would once again be worth buying.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well we will know in a couple months when I get the new lights in for testing and review.

The assumption nitefighter itself doesn't care is actually that, an assumption. Certain people there didn't and made stupid decisions that screwed up quality (when they got overwhelmed). It is being addressed and crossing my fingers there ISNT a repeat. 

Some may not realize I have direct contacts at both gearbest and nitefighter, so ive been all over this the best I can. Have to know of new issues to be able to deal with them. 

That said ill get the driver issue passed on so whatever was changed and screwed up isn't passed into the bt21s. Hopefully bt21s goes the way of the bt40s. They go to the "s" model and all is well except rare QC problem.


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## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

Can anyone confirm if I have fitted the LEDDNA 10deg optics correctly? I had to remove the white plastic holders from the new optics, the rubber seals from the cover plate and also the small white rings from around the LED's to get them to fit. 

New optics do look brighter with a narrower beam but not as much as I was expecting. Hard to tell in the garden though as not much distance before fence/trees, need some proper open space to really see whats what.

Oh my light is a batch two with the loose connector if that makes any difference. thanks


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The stock orings make work fine but white holder and stock white ring need to be removed.

The optics dont make the light brighter, they simply tighten up the beam increasing throw by alot. The increased brightness of the spot may appear minimal but the lumens in that spot is probably 30-40% more than with the stock optics.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

What tigris99 said. Try to keep that stock faceplate o-ring in place unless you absolutely need to remove it. If you're looking to get a tighter beam you'd need to either go XP-L HI emitters (not so easy in this light) or a light using reflectors (perhaps even much bigger reflectors than these optics - like the MS808E clones).

-Garry


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## Blaucycle (Dec 20, 2015)

Based on the enthusiasm for this light, I ordered a B21 October 3 from Gear Best. After impatiently waiting for 72 days, I was pleased to get it this week. While GB was a bit slow mailing it, possibly because it was about the last of that series produced, it was stored in a postal station in the Netherlands for most of that time. I can't fault GB for that part of the slow shipping.

I found the switch cover seems to cause the switch to stick down so that it can't reset itself for the next click. At least I hope that's the cause and it's not because the switch is faulty. I pulled up on the silicon around the perimeter and it seemed to free the switch. Time will tell.

Informal testing shows a surprisingly bright light with enough throw for my purposes. With this light on the bike plus a Yinding (bought earlier this fall also thanks to forum comments) that mounts on my helmet, I will enjoy riding at speed (on roads) with the ability to see holes in time to avoid them. The two lights together make me feel like I have car headlights on my bike.

Thanks everyone for your comments about this light. Your insights have been very helpful.


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

That's interesting seems like all the previous post you guys were all saying remove the orings and I don't recall mention of the white rings. I ended up removing the orings and leaving the white rings to get everything to fit properly.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The stock white rings you have to remove for any optic besides the stock ones otherwise the optics can be out of focus. The emitter and front plate will align the optics we use just fine. The stock white ring is for nothing more than holding the stock optics because they used old style optics that have much larger dome holes. So something has to keep the optic from falling down over the entire emitter and being loose in the housing. Something that ISNT a problem with any aftermarket optic ive tried.

With SOME versions of optics you have to remove the orings. There are about 6-7 different styles/manufacturers of optics out there that I know of that make optics in the diameter that fits these lights. Its best to try with the orings first and nothing holding the optics besides being stuffed in the front plate. If plate tightens down to the case without large amounts of effort (which will crack the optic) with the orings in, leave them in. If not go to a thinner oring or leave them out.

Best to leave oring in if possible. I used smaller orings that I stretched to fit around the optics so it was thinner but still seals the front plate from water.


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## Lucky Luciano (Aug 26, 2009)

To make it more road friendly I changed the original lenses to these 10 degree ones:
10 Degree 21mm Reflector Collimator LED Lens For Cree XML XM-L LED - LEDDNA

I had to remove the white holders which didn't fit even after trimming them.

I also had to remove the orings so I dabbed some sanitary silicone on inside of the faceplate to seal it when pushing in the lenses.

The beam pattern is at least twice as concentrated now.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

If they don't want the light returned, why don't you send it to Tigris, Cat-man-do or me to see if we can find the problem and maybe come up with an upgrade?



the mayor said:


> After clicking the button a few times to get it started, it may or may not take a few clicks to get it to the second level where it stays until the end of the ride.
> Not so oddly, it shuts off easily by holding the button.
> At this point, I'm not going to wait until it won't turn on at the beginning of the ride(or fail in the middle of a ride)....nor am I going to waste another second on these pieces of junk. I'm just going to get my money back.
> These ( BT40 and BT21)are...out of the 7 or 8 cheap lights I have bought over the last few years....the absolute worst.
> I picked up a Gloworm XS which is amazing and will probably grab a X2 for the helmet.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

If the indicator leds are activating means the switch is working. Means an MCU issue, not something we can fix (at least none of us here except maybe Archie)

I can do alot of crazy stuff, but fixing small failed chipsets and reprograming them is way beyond me.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

tigris99 said:


> If the indicator leds are activating means the switch is working. Means an MCU issue, not something we can fix (at least none of us here except maybe Archie)
> 
> I can do alot of crazy stuff, but fixing small failed chipsets and reprograming them is way beyond me.


How about a driver change? Can we get replacement drivers?
I know it's an easy fix on Yinding but I haven't opened up my BT21 just to look around.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its NOT something we can fix, as I no there is no other drivers that fit and no we cant get drivers.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

tigris99 said:


> Its NOT something we can fix, as I no there is no other drivers that fit and no we cant get drivers.


Yikes! I didn't realize that.
If I had a broken one I might try and pimp it with a Mobydrv or an L-flex driver, but I'd have to see if there's room in there.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No there isn't, only 20mn of space.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

LFlex fits in 20mm. How tall is the driver cavity?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

tigris99 said:


> No there isn't, only 20mn of space.


Lflex might just fit. I know it can drive 2 LEDs from 7.4v at 3A.
Mobydrv is smaller, 16mm I think. I'm not sure if it can drive 2 LEDs at full current from 7.4v or if you need to run 3.7v and split the output to 1.5A each.


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## Spice Weasel (Nov 17, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> The stock orings make work fine but white holder and stock white ring need to be removed.
> 
> The optics dont make the light brighter, they simply tighten up the beam increasing throw by alot. The increased brightness of the spot may appear minimal but the lumens in that spot is probably 30-40% more than with the stock optics.


Just tried to refit the faceplate with o rings, but no way that will work as to much of a gap around plate and light. Need to find something alot thinner or maybe a dab of silicone sealant.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Driver cavity is 12mm.

I thought l-flex was bigger than that lol.

I have one that's running a 17mm driver but had to machine an aluminum block to hold it. That one is my one running xp-l hi with highest mode pushing 3.5A. Casing can take the heat since aftermarket driver is MUCH more efficient. I dont know about it for summer use but I know it deals with 2.5A at 8.4v no problem.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Driver cavity is 12mm.
> 
> I thought l-flex was bigger than that lol.
> 
> I have one that's running a 17mm driver but had to machine an aluminum block to hold it. That one is my one running xp-l hi with highest mode pushing 3.5A. Casing can take the heat since aftermarket driver is MUCH more efficient. I dont know about it for summer use but I know it deals with 2.5A at 8.4v no problem.


Someone needs to start selling aluminium mounts that go between the light and handlebars and will hold an lflex or bFlex. Finned would be a bonus.


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## Wire (Nov 2, 2015)

Received my BT21 yesterday.
Non-clicking connector (no major problem for me). Switch is not OK, takes about 5 to 15 clicks to turn on or step up, I'll have a closer look today.

Brightness on turbo is impressive (the first light to beat my 2.7 A Tri clone). Changed optics on one side, throw is great. Tint seems to be real neutral white (whereas my BT40S was simple yellow).

Can someone tell me how the lamp handles overheating? Gradual reduction (like some SS X2 did) or abrupt step-down to lower levels (like the 10-step driver KD2)? Does it come back to Turbo by itself once it has cooled down?

Summarizing my first impressions: Typical cheap china lamp, not usable without some minor modifications (cable connection, switch), but output is really great. I think I'm gonna like it.


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

With the standard optics, the beam pattern is very nice and smooth. When you put in an optic on just one side, how does this affect the beam pattern (other than increasing the throw?)


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## JSumner13 (Apr 26, 2006)

Ordered a BT21 and BT40s on December 6th, both shipped out on the December 9th and I received them in Rhode Island on December 18th. So far I've done a 2 hour ride with them both continually on "High" and they worked as they're supposed to. So far so good! Nice bright lights for the money.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wire said:


> Received my BT21 yesterday.
> 
> Non-clicking connector (no major problem for me). Switch is not OK, takes about 5 to 15 clicks to turn on or step up, I'll have a closer look today.
> 
> ...


Its not a fancy light with thermal management. Very simple step down from turbo to high mode and stays there. Case can deal with high mode fine, turbo requires air moving or it steps down to high.


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## Rsmall1223 (Dec 23, 2015)

Maybe a stupid question. I just got a bt40 and bt21. Which one should go on the helmet and which one on the bar? Thanks.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Bt21 helmet normally


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Optic update*

The only thing really new here is I eliminated the frosted texture of the stock optics with a little plastic polish. I also wanted to give some long term comments on the Gloworm XS spots and the Leddna 10° and 15° since there have been some noteworthy performance changes in them.

1) Polished stock optics: Small performance gains (2% bounce test, 10% center beam lux). Won't be noticeably brighter but you should notice the throw gain (estimate, I haven't ridden with the polished optics yet).

2) Gloworm XS spot long-term: Every test I've run with these optics have returned the best bounce and center-beam lux #'s. Performance increase has remained stable and they fit the best of the accessory optics. These are what I run even though they cost the most.

3) Leddna 10° long-term: Lux output has dropped off a bit from their initial readings (increases over stock reduced by about 50%). They still provide a tighter beam and about 25% center-beam lux increase over stock but the bounce test is only about +3% now. These optics actually fix a little loose in my BT21s.

4) Leddna 15° long-term: Similar performance drop off as the 10°. Poor fit (too tall). You need to file off the feet @ the emitter side (better but still tight fit). A while back I did this and noted a performance loss which I attributed to the modification but now think it's a Leddna optic characteristic. Even taking the feet off the optic fit too tight IMO and I worry about long-term reliability of the light because of excessive pressure on the emitter board. I won't use these anymore.

I have 6 of the 15° and 4 of the 10° Leddna optics and they all perform the same. I even tried polishing the optics with plastic polish thinking maybe the material they were made of scratched easily but it made no difference. I have no idea what would cause this but welcome any ideas.
Mole


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

Tried removing the white rings and adding the orings as suggested by some. There is no way those orings would fit in. Everything mounted up good with no white rings or orings though. The beam does seem a little more focused so i'm happy with that. It would feel better to get everything to fit up with the orings through to keep water out. I'm sure it'd have to be a pretty heavy downpour to get in there but it'd be nice for peace of mind. I may try to sand some distance off the back of the optic to allow room for the orings. Has anyone else done that, or found some really thin orings?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Don't know if it will fix your BT21, but here is where I get thin o-rings when I need them.

Esslinger Watch and Jewelry Supplies


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

You can't sand off the back of the optic, itll destroy the optic.


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## noobbiker888 (Jul 12, 2015)

Anyone has photos of how you mount the BT21 and what you used to do that to your helmet?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

it comes with a helmet mount or people like me use gopro adapter and gopro mount to attach to the helmet.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I use a GoPro mount. I think it's called a "wrist mount". Search Ebay for GoPro wrist mount. It's a wide velcro band. Then you need a GoPro adapter on the lighthead (see Vancbiker's thread/signature).






-Garry


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## HDsilakka (Nov 22, 2015)

I was lazy and just strapped with handlebar mount, moving back / forward adjust angle, works fine for me. bt40 bar and bt21 Leddna 10° helmet.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I used one of Vancbiker's mounts and an aluminum GoPro piece. I like my light nice and compact to the helmet.


From Lights


From Lights


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

Does anyone see any issues with running a small bead of 3140 RTV on the backside of the optic where it meets front bezel? Using the 10deg optics I can't get o-rings to fit and I worry about water getting inside the light and causing issues.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

It may change the beam pattern but you can try it and clean it off if needed. Just look at the beam on a white wall before and after.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Make sure its the "sensor safe" stuff.

Its not the beam you gotta worry about as much as the fumes from the regular silicone reacting with the copper in the light. Causing insane and rapidly forming corrosion. 

And honestly its still black silicone so it will have 0 effect on the beam pattern.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Tigris: now that you have that sphere are you going to do tests on the BT21 and the other Nitefighter lights? Love to see results on these lights and accessory optics _when you get a chance._
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

None of mine are stock anymore. I can tell you my one bt21 with xp-l hi pushes just under 2200 lumens.

Only stock nitefighter I have is the bt70 which was 1962 lumens. Generation 2 driver.


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

I didn't see anything on Dow Corning's site about being "sensor safe" but I work at an electronics test equipment company and this stuff is used all the time directly on PCBs and power supplies. 

"One-part, translucent adhesive or coating with good flowability, good flame resistance, UL, IPC and Mil Spec tested"


I just wasn't quite sure what the melting point of this stuff is after cured as well as any beam pattern affects. Just remembered that i'd actually used some of this to lock in the front of the handlebar o-ring so it wouldn't get lost when not mounted and it hasn't melted. Also i'd be trying to use the smallest amount possible using a syring to make the seal. It's also transluscent so hoping that wouldn't affect the beam pattern much if any, but i'm definitely no optics expert.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> None of mine are stock anymore. I can tell you my one bt21 with xp-l hi pushes just under 2200 lumens.
> 
> Only stock nitefighter I have is the bt70 which was 1962 lumens. Generation 2 driver.


I was afraid of that. Shouldn't be too long before you have a new BT21s to test though. Thanks for the BT70 info (I also have that version). Still, _when you get a chance_ a Leddna vs. Gloworm optic shootout would be interesting.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I didn't know the spec number of what you listed. If its for electronics it will be fine. But your going to have the issue of light coming through the silicone around the face plate. 



And don't worry about the whole beam patter thing, though using black silicone would be better to keep light from escaping behind the faceplate.

@ Mole: At some point ill play around with that but im about tot go back on overtime so well see how much time I actually have lol.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> ......I can tell you my one bt21 with xp-l hi pushes just under 2200 lumens.


What current are you driving it at?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

3.5a and runs no hotter than stock set up thnx to the xp-ls


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Thanks. I'm running my dual XPL-HI light at 3,5A too. I'm still impressed at how good a beam those make with the LEDDNA 10 degree optic. Much better than XMLs, IMHO.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> @ Mole: At some point ill play around with that but im about tot go back on overtime so well see how much time I actually have lol.


Ah, time constraints, when you get a chance works fine for me. Thanks!!!
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Wait a minute - did I miss posts about this sphere being completed? I didn't see anything posted.

I need to get back on my PVC Tube Light Measuring project (need to order a better lux meter). Just need to get through some other expenses first. My BT21 is stock except LEDDNA optics. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol, garry first post/pic is in my wiz20 thread as I had declares it the first to be testes upon completion. And ituo sent me their numbers so I had I third light to help calibrate.

It pays not to not rule out self contained lights . I usually do but im in love with my wiz20.

here you go:


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ah, ok. Wow! What a contraption! Great job! I assume you've proven you calibration (i.e. calculations within 10% or something). 

So for being off-topic.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

2 known lights, one was the wiz 20 sphere results from ituo, an ANSI certified light that I pulled up multiple reviews on (p12gt flashlight) to get an avg. Then up against my calculations for other lights. Error margin im putting at 5% + or -


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Turbo-lag update*



*BT21 Turbo-Lag*: Little noticeable brightness difference between high and turbo mode caused by low light-head temperature.

I previously stated that the turbo-lag on my light lessened the more I used it. While my statement was correct my conclusion that it would go away with more usage was incorrect. Cooler night time temperatures unfortunately has brought the turbo-lag back to my last generation BT21. Having noted that the lag showed up most noticeably in current draw tests I did a new ambient 68° cold start test and included another test after the light-head had been in my freezer for approx. half an hour.

68° ambient air temp. current draw test(cold start): High mode - 1.39a, Turbo mode - 2.09a gradually rising to 2.75a just before thermal step down.

Freezer test (light-head temp. 30°): High mode - 1.56a, Turbo mode - 1.59a rising to 2.75a at full temp.

130° light-head temp. test: High mode 1.31a, Turbo mode - 2.65a rising to 2.75a at full temp.

Interesting results. Gearbest told me Nitefighter had indicated that the new BT21s would be "more stable". Hopefully they were talking about the turbo-lag characteristic. It's not a problem for me living in the desert but I imagine that most people who's lights have turbo-lag are going to have to put up with it for most of the year.
Mole


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## Wire (Nov 2, 2015)

MRMOLE said:


> *BT21 Turbo-Lag*: Little noticeable brightness difference between high and turbo mode caused by low light-head temperature.
> 
> Mole


That's interesting. I have also a BT21 showing almost no difference between high and turbo mode. Never thought it might be associated to temperature (it's always cold outside now), maybe I'll have a closer look.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Wire said:


> That's interesting. I have also a BT21 showing almost no difference between high and turbo mode. Never thought it might be associated to temperature (it's always cold outside now), maybe I'll have a closer look.


My BT21 (last version) actually produces the most lux (turbo mode only) on my meter just before thermal protection activates (approx. 150° case temp.). I put the light in the freezer again last night, this time measuring lux on a bounce test. Case temp of 36° - 140.6 lux, then warming it up to 140° - 209 lux. Living in a very warm climate I love this light but this explains why some people are less satisfied with it's performance than I am.
Mole


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> My BT21 (last version) actually produces the most lux (turbo mode only) on my meter just before thermal protection activates (approx. 150° case temp.). I put the light in the freezer again last night, this time measuring lux on a bounce test. Case temp of 36° - 140.6 lux, then warming it up to 140° - 209 lux. Living in a very warm climate I love this light but this explains why some people are less satisfied with it's performance than I am.
> Mole


What is the best place to get the bt21 headlight only? How long is the wait?
Thanks.!!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Can't get them anymore☁.new version in about a month or so


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

OK Thanks, I ordered the BT40s from Kaidomain on nov. 16th and still waiting. Headlight only.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> What is the best place to get the bt21 headlight only? How long is the wait?
> Thanks.!!


As Tigris said unavailable at the moment. Gearbest/Dealsmachine are the only distributors I know of. Delivery times depend on the shipping method you choose. Expedited shipping has always taken less than a week (to Arizona) for me but is expensive (about 15$) for the light-head only. Free shipping option wasn't very reliable last year but usually took approx. 3 weeks.
Mole


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I received my BT21 from gearbest a couple weeks ago. Trying the light out in my basement/yard revealed significant differences compared to the rest of my LED lights. The neutral white light seems really warm. On the trail, the light unfortunately repeatedly turns itself off. It seems due to vibration and maybe a potential connectivity issue within the light head. Bummer. At some point, I may open it up and check it out, but I'd rather ride than spend my time tinkering.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

*O-Rings to fit LEDDNA optics on BT21*

I just fitted some 20mm O-rings in front of my LEDDNA 10 degree optics.
They do get "pinched' a little when torquing down on the 2 face plate bolts.
Here is the link on Fasttech:
https://www.fasttech.com/p/1205302
I picked the two in the packet with the smallest diameter(thickness).


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Lost one of my Nitefighter batteries a couple of days ago. Was charging up some of the batteries I hadn't use for a while to do some testing and this particular battery was very hot when the charge was complete. Time to recycle that pack! Haven't herd complaints about Nitefighter battery problems so I thought I'd post this since t might be a good idea to keep a closer eye on these batteries when charging. Hopefully this is just an isolated case.
Mole


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

What charger were you using Mole?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> andychrist said:
> 
> 
> > What charger were you using Mole?


It's one of the chargers I got with a BT21 kit. Batteries charged right before that one and cautiously right after had no problems.
Mole


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well as you probably know the later chargers going out with the kits were different from the ones originally included and still pictured on GB. I have both and can testify that the substitute is noticeably crappy for directly powering my repurposed bike lights indoors on any setting but H, so might not be able to handle certain variances between batteries?

I use the BAK pack that came with my BT40S more than any other batteries, both for the moderately long run-time and because the two-strapped pouch fits around the handlebars of my commuter at the stem so well. Have been charging it with either of the [2A] NiteFighter compatible ones, as they'll both charge up to 8.5V whereas the [1.8A] MagicShine charger seems to cut off at 8.2V/8.3V. Guess maybe I should just stick to the original NF charger then?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I've got 3 chargers from Nitefighter kits, the one I was using was from my first BT21 kit. The other two have loose plug connectors so I haven't been using them unless I need to charge 2 or more batteries at once. Checking the charging rate on all of them would probably be a good idea.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

More great news on the BT21.... Batteries now? I got my BT21 out last nite and compared it to the refurbed x2 I just acquired. They seem like they have separate qualities with stock optics in place. The x2 has a lot of throw with a definite hotspot compared to the BT21. MRMOLE was right on point. Gonna be a great helmet light. There's a lot to be said for buying quality but the BT21 put it out as well. I was upset about not getting the big dog xs, but personal preferences and the lack of cash monee made me realize I got a pretty awesome setup already. I'm not the DH ripper, just a rider that by work schedule does ride at nite. And these lights and this forum r really cool.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Posted at BLF - the BT21S has been cancelled! Ugh! See: 30% OFF for Revtronic Flashlight - Amazon FBA Shipping | BudgetLightForum.com

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well that sucks! Was looking forward to it. Surprising being the fact they sold more than they could keep up with. They had a couple issues to fix and would have been the best, not ridiculous priced, dual emitter out there do far. They were the ONLY company to realize the fins directly behind the emitters was perfection for thermal management. I only know of one other, very high end company that uses that design.

Guess we gotta hunt for a new light (if any exist).

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Thats bad news, I was hanging out for one.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Seems they didn't want to use their limited R&D to correct the issues with the BT21. I was hoping for a triple from them but obviously if they can't fix this design maybe better off.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I'm finding out now they would make more of the bt21, but need a 300 unit minimum group buy 

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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Head only or set with battery and charger?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I have no clue, you know as much as I do at the moment (since my post)

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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Well I'm finding out now they would make more of the bt21, but need a 300 unit minimum group buy
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


I would think Gearbest would have no problem ordering 300 lights to sell considering how popular the BT21 was. Maybe that's why they now list the BT21 Kit again on their site. I would order a couple more lights if all Nitefigher did was spec. newer U3 emitters (no engineering required for that). Hopefully quality control would be better than the last batch they produced but that's a risk when ordering any Chinese light.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

...adding to what MrM said above; I was thinking the same thing ( Gearbest ) but it would still be necessary to build a proto-type and then have it reviewed. Pretty much what was done with the Yinding. Do that and then get them to let you say where it needs improvement. I'd be happy with the better emitters ( per MrM ) and some ( included ) better optic choices. It's not like they have to re-engineer the whole lamp. Replace some components to tweak the output, get the best Cree emitters, include some spot optics in the kit and you're good. I don't see where the problem is. Most of the work is already done.

Of course the loaded dice in this idea is that you would have to deal with Gearbest. Maybe try Kaidomain and see what they can come up with.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

If they just continued with the original design with original quality they could continue to sell hundreds I'm sure! I don't understand why they dropped it. Add in a version using XP-L HI emitters with 10º optics and it could sell even more!

-Garry


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Revtronic should upgrade this light. Put it on Amazon, lighthead option for $30, sell thousands
I bet. No more websites selling products they don't have. I'd even pay a lil more just for piece of mind not dealing with them (Gearbest)and their bs.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

What a bunch of boneheads. Yes, let's discontinue our most popular product. Great idea. They basically cornered the market at the $20-$80 price range. In the last six months, they were always the first recommendation ! Why would you give that up?

What's the old saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't force them to drink. 

I'm done with this brand!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They have found that flashlights are cheaper and easier to deal with, people don't expect much and selling a 500 unit group buy is easy for them that way.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## bar1 (Feb 23, 2016)

Hi !
I was also looking forward to the bt21s and been monitoring the forms for a while now.
can you guys recommend another light for me?
preferably from gearbest/banggood/geekbuying, budget:$60


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

You could get a Yinding from Gearbest and a KD battery. Ideally get a heat sink GoPro mount from Vancbiker and a charger from Hunk Lee at FMA battery but now you're over budget, so you may need to stick to the standard mount and a cheapo charger.


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## bar1 (Feb 23, 2016)

Ofroad'bent said:


> You could get a Yinding from Gearbest and a KD battery. Ideally get a heat sink GoPro mount from Vancbiker and a charger from Hunk Lee at FMA battery but now you're over budget, so you may need to stick to the standard mount and a cheapo charger.


Thanks, is 900LM bright enough?
can i have a link to a good battery and a mount?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

bar1 said:


> Thanks, is 900LM bright enough?
> can i have a link to a good battery and a mount?


It's more than 900 lumen on high.

Here's a link for a good 4-cell battery- KD also sells a very good 2-cell battery.

:http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...ck-kaidomain-com-reasonable-price-995303.html

Heatsink mount thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...apter-fins-additional-heatsinking-958312.html


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yinding is a hair over 1000 lumens (I ran the 2 I have through my sphere) with stock optics. Better optics adds about another 100 lumens.

On topic: group buy pricing for bt21:

$25 for light head
$51 for full set.

Working with GB as they know they sell well, no reason they can pick up a massive chunk of the group buy cause they know the BT21 sells like crazy.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> On topic: group buy pricing for bt21:
> 
> $25 for light head
> $51 for full set.
> ...


Huh? Thought the BT21 was gone forever?

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nope, but this is our last chance

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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

@ $25 (shipped?) for the head, I would for sure be in for another one.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah I'd probably jump on another at $25. Are you going to update us when this last batch is available? Are they up to the quality of the first original batch?

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

[


> QUOTE=tigris99;12490747]Yinding is a hair over 1000 lumens (I ran the 2 I have through my sphere) with stock optics. Better optics adds about another 100 lumens.


So accessory optics can be more efficient and add power not just reshape the beam. I always suspected this but had no way to confirm it (Your sphere is awesome!!!).



> On topic: group buy pricing for bt21:
> 
> $25 for light head
> $51 for full set.
> ...


Count me in for a couple of additional BT21 lights.

Mole


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Im keen on one too.


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## Moguo (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm in for a some lightheads.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I'm def in for 1 lighthead. Any improvements on the table? Shoot I'll prolly grab a kit as well for my nephews bday! Gearbest gave me great delivery on the last BT21 so shoot yeah!


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Im in for one or 2 light heads at least.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Back from the the dead, eh? 

Is this going to be a new and improved model?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Varider, Garry answer that a few posts ago, the bt21s is dead. This group buy is for the original bt21 (built like the first batch, not the jacked up last batch).

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tig, how about current drift issue second batch had? The third batch had also connector issue. So I can recognise at least three batches.

So question is: do you know anything about driver changes? Hopefuly they would be same as yours from the first batch. Can you please check that for us?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm doing what I can but the odd driver issue I don't have one with that issue to see really for myself or sort out the problem. I will pass on simple information regarding it and see if that gets anywhere.

But to be completely honest, I'm really busy and trying to tackle every detail that's not quite right I won't be able to do.

My current concerns are :

The connector
The crappy handlebar mount (screw tightening causing failures)
The button issues of the first batches (not being properly installed, but that seemed to be corrected)

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## bar1 (Feb 23, 2016)

I am keen on a set


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tig, I understand. I know you don't have time to deal with all the stuff. Since I know there is quite some users who got lights with this current glitch I'm shure they (including me) don't want to buy another light with the same problem. It would be OK if the difference between Hi and Turbo would be substantial but with this issue it is hardly noticeable rendering Turbo mode almost unusable (ie. sufficient).

Thanks for proceeding this further to the Gearbest or better yet to the manufacturer.
Would you be getting sample from that new batch to test?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Maybe it's time for the actual manufacturer to post info directly on this site. If he can post directly on BLF, then why not here? There's no indication on BLF that they are going to be making any more lights at all:
Revtronic promotion-End | BudgetLightForum.com

Are these guys going to be standing behind their product? If you get one that's messed up, will they offer a replacement? What about the guys who never received their shipments the last time around, and didn't get refunds?

I should clarify that Gearbest has been good to me, when they didn't have a lighthead to send out I got a refund within a few days. But others got worked over and I don't know if they ever got situation corrected.


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

I'd be in for a lighthead


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*I already have 4 but I like this light that much I would probably buy 4 more for backups and loaners:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:*


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## Davey Simon (Dec 10, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> Yinding is a hair over 1000 lumens (I ran the 2 I have through my sphere) with stock optics. Better optics adds about another 100 lumens.
> 
> On topic: group buy pricing for bt21:
> 
> ...


Could I get in on a group buy?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Group by isn't official or anything yet, still working on it, but anyone that wants in will be able to get in on it. We're just discussing it and I'm trying to work out making sure quality issues are minimal/non existant.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Just throwing the 21 is a good lite. Tig u think the buy will happen? I saw it throw in the trees. It's worth it. But the gloworm x2 smokes it. I'd buy a bt21 just to learn optics.bttr than a yndg.?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The bt21 with good optics will out perform the x2. Throw is in the optics. And cheap lights can't match the practically perfect design of gloworm optics.

And both lights will far outperform a stock yinding (even with putting good optics in it)

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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Group by isn't official or anything yet, still working on it, but anyone that wants in will be able to get in on it. We're just discussing it and I'm trying to work out making sure quality issues are minimal/non existant.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


What can we do to make a production run of the BT21 more attractive to Nitefighter/Revtronics? From what I've been hearing They want to quit making bike lights all together (not a good thing IMO). Would a light-head only run be better for them since they wouldn't be required to outsource for batteries, chargers, mounts and cases (extra work for them to provide the Kit option)? Even though the Kit is a good value the light-head is the only really outstanding piece anyway. Just thinking out-loud since I want to see this happen.

Sad to think we are loosing Nitefighter as a bike light manufacturer. Big loss to the "Cheap Chinese" bike light segment since they were the only real "High Performance Light" manufacturer we had!
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I know for sure they'll do the group buy but have to reach the needed numbers. The first time we did a group buy the numbers were pretty low. They just want those magic "group buy quantities" they see on BLF for flashlights.

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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I'd go for 2 light heads. And most likely a full kit. What Revtronic probably isn't taking into account is folks that are "lurking" the forums. That would up the number quite significantly
and 300 lights would sell quite fast, I'm sure. Its a bang for the buck winner and for $51 for a full kit is a steal in my book. I paid $60 in nov and have no regrets.


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## Moguo (Apr 3, 2012)

So do we set up a separate thread and have people register for the group buy ?


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Dirt Road said:


> What Revtronic probably isn't taking into account is folks that are "lurking" the forums. That would up the number quite significantly
> and 300 lights would sell quite fast, I'm sure. Its a bang for the buck winner and for $51 for a full kit is a steal in my book.


Don't be so sure.
In my experience (I did several group buys) lurkers will mostly join if the product is cheap, like 15$ at most 30$ they will not buy 50+$ product.
Also, if you think that "300 lights would sell quite fast" you obviously did not organise a group buy...
To get that kind of sale, light would have to be fully customized to MTBR members wishes and to organise that (collect ideas and wishes, communicate with manufacturer on how much would every idea/wish add to products price, weed out too expensive wishes - tigris knows what I am talking about) it would taka at least 2 months...
Anyway, I wouldn't mind getting one more Nitefighter light.

Sent from my DesktopComputer using Keyboard&Mice


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Sirius, in a group buy no, 300 would be a bit difficult. But in a business sense for a retailer like Gearbest, 300 would sell quite quickly.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Sirius9 said:


> Sent from my DesktopComputer using Keyboard&Mice


ROTFL!!! 

-Garry


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I don't personally own a Yinding light. I was going to order one from Gearbest but alas it was Backordered. My point is, if they are moving that light, they sure can move the BT21 as well, if not better. I do see the point of 300 lights as a group buy not being feasable, but I wonder how close the group buy would get?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm awaiting confirmation from gearbest on what's going on exactly. I do know Nitefighter is living in a dream world if they think they'll be able to do all these massive group buys at normal pricing with nothing done to them to make them "better".

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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

My cycling club mate has just received it from GB (full $60 set). Quality seems really low: initially it looked like not working; later we've found bad contact in battery connector - it works only if bending force is applied to light/battery connection point.

Seems like 'head only' option is more appropriate way to order this light...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I've ordered the extensions from several different places (which is all made the same). And had one end bad on some, usually the female end used in battery packs.

I have come to look at things this way. If ppl stop being ridiculous and forcing prices down (and places stop listing items so cheaply as to ruin any ability to maintain quality and still make a profit at manufacturing stage) we would see more lights in the cheaper range that are actually decent.

Though that's only half the problem, other problem is many places over their think they know best and that they can cut corners ( bigger US companies are great for it too).

If they go back to the quality of original batches were good, if not we'll....

But to save problems, buy decent lights. Friends don't let friends buy cheap crap . 

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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> I have come to look at things this way. If ppl stop being ridiculous and forcing prices down (and places stop listing items so cheaply as to ruin any ability to maintain quality and still make a profit at manufacturing stage) we would see more lights in the cheaper range that are actually decent.


If we are the addicts, then you are our dealer! Haha

You do have a good point, although I don't really see us as the main problem. People would be willing to a little bit extra for Yinding/Nitefighter quality. It just seems that the more people jump on a particular light, the more they have to produce and then the quality problems seem to kick in. The manufacturer wants to fulfill all their orders but they can't keep up with the demand. Then the cloning starts and it's all over.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Your definitely right to a point. But look at eBay and how many here saying "I got x light for cheap on eBay". So we create/support the demand for cheap crap lights. Better companies see this and after the first batches getting rave reviews, know they can cut expenses and increase profits. Then wonder why they end up loosing out in the long run. Their too much about the short term quick money instead of sustained profit over the long term.

PS: ID be a broke dealer lol, I have the addiction worse than a lot of ppl
Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

In case of repair/modding, beware of Chinese polarity marking:
https://static2.keep4u.ru/2016/03/03/BT21.jpg


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

-Archie- said:


> In case of repair/modding, beware of Chinese polarity marking:
> https://static2.keep4u.ru/2016/03/03/BT21.jpg


LOL! Just checked my BT21 photos and I see mine matches yours:



Even tig's photo in the O.P. shows the same thing:


-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya for some reason the person they had reflowing emitters was dislexic so then the ppl assembling had to solder the wires the opposite way.

Doesn't hurt anything just confusing to ppl that don't know fully what's going on.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

So what are all the changes proposed to the light head if a group buy were to become a reality?

I know proper cable connector, button fix and the clear delineation between high and turbo. Anything else I'm missing?

BTW is it normal/acceptable/safe for my light to flash on for a second when I connect it to the battery? I bought two BT21s at the same time and one does this, the other doesn't. They both function the same other than that.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

There won't be a driver change. Maybe a fix, but for me there was a noticeable change between high and turbo (there's a whole science as to why it doesn't look like a big jump though there is a nice jump in lumen output). A fix for the weird issue some have may be possible.

That's it, simply get batch one quality back

And yes it's normal, most my lights of all types do that 

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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

In my 2nd batch bt21 there's the turbo lag happening when it's chilly out. If I have the light at room temp, there's a clear jump in output on turbo. I basically use it on my rail trail jaunts on turbo. Definitely something going on. MRMOLE has proven this I do believe.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I know is an issue but what causes it or anything is a mystery.

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## mountainbiker9109 (Sep 23, 2005)

I would be in for a couple of the BT21 light heads. After much dismay with Gearbest I was able to get a BT40S back in the fall and one of the second batch BT21. So far no problems with the BT21 other than the connector which I just electrical tapped the good extension to. Have a couple sets of optics to try out when I get around to it. Appreciate all the effort you've put in tigris99. Hopefully this group buy pans out.


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## Red Rock (Sep 12, 2014)

I'm in for a light head.


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

In for bt21 lighthead group buy 


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## rideonjon (May 27, 2009)

I'm in for a BT-21 lighthead only.

cheers,
jon


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

Snuck out for a night ride tonight...


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Nice video Rb. Killer trail also.


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## Mentor (Aug 14, 2015)

Ditto on that!


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Great vid. Way above my nite rides!


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Pretty technical trail for a night ride. Good advertisment for multiple lights- you wouldn't want a failure of your only light part way down, and you have near-daylight visibility.


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Pretty technical trail for a night ride. Good advertisment for multiple lights- you wouldn't want a failure of your only light part way down, and you have near-daylight visibility.


Exactly my thoughts.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> That's it, simply get batch one quality back


Any new developments on this? I hope people aren't giving up and loosing interest on the BT21 and the group buy. I contacted Nefertari @ Gearbest concerning the BT2! since they still have the light on their website and as of a week ago she was checking into possible availability but no new news since then.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I've been extremely busy so almost forgot about this. I'll message her, seems there is enough interest. But I'll have it done right, make them send me a sample first to make sure. If I get the green light on that end I'll post a thread up.

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## Davey Simon (Dec 10, 2012)

Cool. Keep us posted.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I'm addicted so, yes I'd sport 1/2 lightheads. Although the battery pack is pretty good from my 2nd batch kit. I'm using it for my x2 gloworm as Tigress suggested. Having serious battery delivery issues from KD and Gearbest.


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## Davey Simon (Dec 10, 2012)

3 lights FTW. 2 bar one helmet. 2 can be Chinese. 1 a reputable North American maker. Double failure: still get home on the Night Rider (brand only my case but whatever is reliable).


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

Davey Simon said:


> 3 lights FTW. 2 bar one helmet. 2 can be Chinese. 1 a reputable North American maker. Double failure: still get home on the Night Rider (brand only my case but whatever is reliable).


^This! Well, this is where I'm headed. I've got the 2X Chinese already, and even though I've yet to get double donkey punched, I know it'll happen eventually. I was really banking on that Gemini Duo coming correct with the NW.


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

BTW Count me in for another BT21 in the potential group buy. Is anyone keeping an official tally? Tigris, if/when you start the new thread for that will it be posted in here first?


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## Ebroughton (May 13, 2015)

Count me in on a group buy for another BT21. I really like the one I got last summer. Thanks Tigris for your efforts.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mikeynets said:


> ^This! Well, this is where I'm headed. I've got the 2X Chinese already, and even though I've yet to get double donkey punched, I know it'll happen eventually. *I was really banking on that Gemini Duo coming correct with the NW.*


Mikey, don't give up on the Gemini Duo! The folks from Gemini keep telling me they are going with a warmer emitter for their 2016 line-up. While I have yet to see the updated warmer tint myself I'm going to take them at their word. I'm still waiting though to hear just when the newer versions will be available. I sent off an e-mail today just to find that out.

I have to admit that I'm surprised at how many people still seem to be interested in the BT21. Yeah, it's a nice light for the money ( I own one ) but I'm not sure it's worth going through all the trouble of doing a group buy and then waiting around for the Chinese vendor to come forth with the goods. Now if they updated the UI to a 3-mode that was programmable :ihih: ...that might be worth waiting for.

While the original 4-mode of the BT21 was not bad it was kind of a PITA to constantly shuffle over the first ( low mode ) mode when Mountain biking. It was just "Too low" to be usable for Mountain biking IMO. I would much prefer to have either a brighter low mode or have the ability to program the low to my preferred output. In a nutshell though, I much prefer a UI with just 3 modes ( L-M-H ) in the main user menu. It's just easier to use. That said over the years I've used many Chinese lamps with "off" included in the main menu so I suppose I'm just nit-picking.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Got an e-mail from Nefertari @ Gearbest with Nitefighters response to her inquiring about availability of the BT21. "The bad product rate is too high because of the difficult tech. The profit is not enough to keep producing these lights. We prefer to flashlights". So pretty much what we've already heard and looks like Gearbest is a dead-end on the Bt21 even though they still list it on their website. Group buy may be our last hope.

Seems odd to me that anyone who had a product that sold out so easily would choose to discontinue it rather than raise the price to make it profitable again (a higher price wouldn't scare me away from this light). If Nitefighter ultimately decides never to produce the BT21 again I hope they sell the design to someone else to produce or we just get a good clone of equal quality/performance in the future.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah that's the thing - they could probably double the price and it would still sell great (assuming quality like first batch). Ugh! So disappointing. 

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Got an e-mail from Nefertari @ Gearbest with Nitefighters response to her inquiring about availability of the BT21.* "The bad product rate is too high because of the difficult tech. The profit is not enough to keep producing these lights. We prefer to flashlights".* So pretty much what we've already heard and looks like Gearbest is a dead-end on the Bt21 even though they still list it on their website. Group buy may be our last hope.
> 
> Seems odd to me that anyone who had a product that sold out so easily would choose to discontinue it rather than raise the price to make it profitable again (a higher price wouldn't scare me away from this light). If Nitefighter ultimately decides never to produce the BT21 again *I hope they sell the design to someone else to produce or we just get a good clone of equal quality/performance in the future.*
> Mole


Gearbest's response sounds to me like a "canned" response. The people who were producing the Nitefighter products likely just decided to get away from making bike light systems. Since Gearbest is still listing the BT21 on their website "this really gives me a reason to doubt buying ANYTHING from Gearbest". If you're going to place an ad for a product ( even one that's out of stock ) you have to have the intent to "get more product" before you start taking people's money. Since Gearbest ( by their own admission ) has no intent or way to get more of the BT21's, they should take down the ads on their website. In my opinion this should raise "red flags" to any one who is considering buying ANYTHING from Gearbest.

There are other cheap two emitters lamps out there with neutral LED's. We still have the Yinding and KD2 ( Kaidomain ). There is also an Ultrafire version very similar to the BT21 only with cool white emitters.

I think at this point we would have a better chance working with Kaidomain to get some improvements to the KD2 ( Duo clones )..ie...better heat sink for the emitters and a little more output by changing the sensing resistors. That said, I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble. We have two quality duel emitter lamps that now offer "neutral LED" emitters; The Gloworm X2 and the *Gemini Duo (2016...*new version for future release ). Both of these lamps offer "neutral LED's". Although more expensive than the cheap Chinese knock-offs they are still reasonably priced ( IMO ). Still, you get what you pay for. The brand name lamps will have better vendor support and better warranties...not to mention that once they are in stock the vendor isn't going to drop off the face of the Earth and leave you hanging if something goes wrong with your lamp.


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## mikeynets (Dec 19, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Mikey, don't give up on the Gemini Duo! The folks from Gemini keep telling me they are going with a warmer emitter for their 2016 line-up. While I have yet to see the updated warmer tint myself I'm going to take them at their word. I'm still waiting though to hear just when the newer versions will be available. I sent off an e-mail today just to find that out.


I haven't given up yet - just waiting for confirmation of the NW availability. And I agree with your other post - the Gemini Duo seems like a good value. Reputable company with a product that has features that are very useful for MTB definitely warrants a higher price than Chinese lights. With that said, their prices are very reasonable when compared to say Gloworm, Exposure, Dinotte, etc.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Gearbest's response sounds to me like a "canned" response. The people who were producing the Nitefighter products likely just decided to get away from making bike light systems. Since Gearbest is still listing the BT21 on their website "this really gives me a reason to doubt buying ANYTHING from Gearbest". If you're going to place an ad for a product ( even one that's out of stock ) you have to have the intent to "get more product" before you start taking people's money. Since Gearbest ( by their own admission ) has no intent or way to get more of the BT21's, they should take down the ads on their website. In my opinion this should raise "red flags" to any one who is considering buying ANYTHING from Gearbest.
> 
> There are other cheap two emitters lamps out there with neutral LED's. We still have the Yinding and KD2 ( Kaidomain ). There is also an Ultrafire version very similar to the BT21 only with cool white emitters.
> 
> I think at this point we would have a better chance working with Kaidomain to get some improvements to the KD2 ( Duo clones )..ie...better heat sink for the emitters and a little more output by changing the sensing resistors. That said, I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble. We have two quality duel emitter lamps that now offer "neutral LED" emitters; The Gloworm X2 and the *Gemini Duo (2016...*new version for future release ). Both of these lamps offer "neutral LED's". Although more expensive than the cheap Chinese knock-offs they are still reasonably priced ( IMO ). Still, you get what you pay for. The brand name lamps will have better vendor support and better warranties...not to mention that once they are in stock the vendor isn't going to drop off the face of the Earth and leave you hanging if something goes wrong with your lamp.


Hi Cat,
* ALL* your points certainly have merit. I'm probably more tolerant of Gearbests shananigans because my expectations were always pretty low because of all the horror stories I'd heard about Chinese vendors in the past and I've always eventually got what I ordered which I know has not been your experience. An explanation of my affection for the BT21 has to do with performance and its ability to deal with heat well. From what I've read the newest model Duo is the most heat sensitive Duo yet and my older Duo (with Vancbiker finned mount) suffers with step-down over 100° (a big deal because of its "Thrust into darkness" style of heat protection) so the new Duo is not even a consideration for me (It makes less lux than the BT21 too). The newest X2s slight power deficiency is probably not even noticeable most of the time but over 100° the thermal protection has it running at about 70% which makes it a very noticeable 35% less powerful than the BT21. Sure the Gemini/Gloworm have better quality/reliability/more features but not even considering the price the BT21 is just a better performing light for me in the environment I use it in! Maybe not such a big deal for most people but for me the BT21's ability to run at full brightness in high heat (109° highest ride temp last summer) makes it a winner for me. 
Mole

_My BT21 Set-up: Cloworm optics + Vancbiker finned mount_


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

MRMOLE u ride under brutal conditions! As far as the BT21, it had some quality issues. Just think about the average consumer. They want gloworm/Gemini level quality at $59.95
Prices. I can't blame either Gearbest or Revtronic for shying away from bringing the BT21 back. Meanwhile, my bt21 is still in the rotation. Good batteries , good light. As is the bt40. Great combo that I paid around $100 for both full kits.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

MRMOLE said:


> Got an e-mail from Nefertari @ Gearbest with Nitefighters response to her inquiring about availability of the BT21. "The bad product rate is too high because of the difficult tech. The profit is not enough to keep producing these lights. We prefer to flashlights". So pretty much what we've already heard and looks like Gearbest is a dead-end on the Bt21 even though they still list it on their website. Group buy may be our last hope.


That doesn't sound very promising. It's been about six weeks since their announcement on BLF and I'm starting to think their decision is permanent.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

To be honest, I haven't heard anything back since I sent 2 messages, thinking that group buy is dead too because gearbest isn't interested in (or us much anymore). I could be wrong but hard to say. They did alot of damage to their reputation here with all the false shipping and such

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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

"Oh well", it's not the end of the world. Doesn't look like engineering was the problem but rather Nitefighters inability to maintain quality control on what probably was outsourced components. Businesses are looking for marketable products all the time so all someone has to do is produce a clone with first run quality components,performance and they would have a easily sellable product that already has a customer base (us) that are willing to buy and review their product. Performance of the light would even justify a higher selling price with good quality. Also looks like Ituo plans on making mountainbike lights. There will always be something new and better for us to try.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Well, I better get some steady hands to put my gw optics in. My 21 is now a collectors item! All kidding aside, I'm a lil disappointed.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Well, I better get some steady hands to put my gw optics in. My 21 is now a collectors item! All kidding aside, I'm a lil disappointed.


You should be very happy with the optic swap results. Should up the lux #'s almost 20% on a bounce test and 25% center beam (Throw). Stock optics are fairly inefficient.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> To be honest, I haven't heard anything back since I sent 2 messages, thinking that group buy is dead too because gearbest isn't interested in (or us much anymore). I could be wrong but hard to say. They did alot of damage to their reputation here with all the false shipping and such
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


GearBest also has an "AVOID" rating over at BLF. (Actually has since April 2014.)

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Tig, did you ever post up your lumen measurements on a stock BT21? I see your speadsheet here, but it has your BT21 with XP-L HI's. I remember you removing a sense resistor on a light in order to measure stock lumens - was that the BT40S or Yinding? EDIT - see it was the Yinding now.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I don't have a bt21 I can measure . yinding and bt40s I did already. One bt21 I cooked the driver, the second one started having turbo lag that eventually became an almost nonexistent turbo.

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## Morten Schmidt (Apr 25, 2014)

Shame these aren't being made available again. From comments here it didn't seem to have a lot of reliability problems. Perhaps the problems they had were with the battery packs or chargers in the kit?

I've got the Yinding and love that - the reason I wanted this is the top-mounted button. The yiunding is a bit of a pain to operate with winter or even thin full-finger gloves on (and the KD2 completely impossible). Had hoped to pick up one of these not for the turbo-mode, but just for the ergonomics of it. Shame, this. Seems they had went and done good development of their own instead of copying existing designs. Hard to understand it couldn't be profitable.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I favor a top button as well. I believe there will be some Ituo lights coming out with the top button. I'm sure they will be priced reasonably, but not at the bt21/Yinding level. But quality will most likely be excellent.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Well, I better get some steady hands to put my gw optics in. My 21 is now a collectors item! All kidding aside, I'm a lil disappointed.


Did a ride tonight with the BT21 (Gloworm spot optics) on the bars of my Mukluk. Took off on the canals to a park across town but about 2 miles from said park got turned around by a monsoon storm. Had a slight tail-wind going out but winds did a 180° when the storm moved in and pushed me all the way home @ 17-21 mph cruse speeds (Way fast for me on a fatty + tail-winds for the whole ride - awesome). Disappointed I didn't get to ride the trails at the park but still got 46 mi. and even some rain the last couple of miles! This light is so impressive. Great throw and surprisingly wide beam patters with the GW spots. Made me think I'd never heard whether you had done the optic switch on your BT21 so I'm guessing you haven't. I encourage you to try this, you'll be impressed!
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

No optics change yet..... This pic is the 1st ride with bt21. It's not even aimed correctly but it blew me away with its mix of flood and really great throw.
They need to update bt21, it's a great light at a low price!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Dirt Road said:


> ......They need to update bt21, it's a great light at a low price!


Unfortunately both those attributes are not sustainable. If one wants a great light, reliable and well put together, the price is going to have to go up some.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> Unfortunately both those attributes are not sustainable. If one wants a great light, reliable and well put together, the price is going to have to go up some.


Hard to argue with that. Personally I'd have much rather Gearbest had given us the upgraded BT21s with higher quality internals and better factory quality control (any would have been an improvement) for $50 (light-head) rather than the upcoming triple. Reliability seem to be one of their concerns so will hope for the best.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> View attachment 1079391
> 
> No optics change yet..... This pic is the 1st ride with bt21. It's not even aimed correctly but it blew me away with its mix of flood and really great throw.
> They need to update bt21, it's a great light at a low price!


Last words of encouragement to get you to try the optic switch. Think how much better you liked your Wiz20 when switching to the 25° optics. Ituo optics have similar efficiency and the gains in beam width were more than worth the very small loss of throw when going from the stock 10° to the 25° (more like a 15° IMO). With the Gloworm optic switch in the BT21 you get a small loss in beam width with a dramatic increase in throw. Major difference is that the GW optics are much more efficient than the stock frosted optics. Frosted optics "suck" IMO, they do a good job smoothing out hot spots and widen the beam a tiny bit but also reflect light back into the light-head killing efficiency. My bounce test lux #'s improved a solid 20% and the center beam intensity (throw) considerably more than that with the optic change. What lumen junky wouldn't love that!
Mole


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I always suspected that the driver was too close to the led board and that is what was causing some of the failures. The driver was in the heat path, so any heat generated by the leds goes back into the metal and eventually to the air-cooled fins. However the driver is almost adjacent to the metal behind the led board, so it's temperature would have been somewhere in between the ultra hot led board and the cooler heat fins. Not to mention that the driver board also generates some amount of heat that has to be conducted out. If it's already partially hot from the led heat-path than this extra operating heat could cook the electronics. 

Some of these microchips have the built-in ability to sense temperature and therefore provide the ability to turn down the current to the leds in order to cool of the entire light. This is the simplest form of active control and what we are seeing in some of the cheap lights. However, the most important thing is to keep the junction point of the leds cool, as hot leds put out less lumens. In fact you want the electronics to be kept completely cool and thermally isolated from the led heat-path, which is the opposite of what we have in the cheap lights. This then would require a remote temperature sensor, such as a calibrated thermocouple, mounted to the led board with a wire running to the driver board. Additional electronics on the driver board are then needed to convert the thermocouple to an input into the microchip. That's obviously the best option, but it would take some engineering know how which the cheap light manufactures don't understand or it's simply too expensive to implement on a cheap light.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I agree that good lights cost money. I have a few good ones Gw x2/xs, Ituo wiz20. I found value in those purchases. Just like I did when I got the bt21. $60 full kit instantly serviceable. There's definitely a driver issue but is it heat related? I'm not so sure...


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

varider said:


> I always suspected that the driver was too close to the led board and that is what was causing some of the failures.


Gloworm X1: led is on the driver board. The electronics can handle the heat if they are spec'd for it.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

All my BT21 failures were a result of emitter damage. I blame this mostly on usage, namely the fact that I did so much testing resulting in a situation where the optics would be changed approx. a dozen times in a short period of time to test + retest different optics. Light-head/bezel design make the emitters more susceptible to damage from optic contact on reassembly and having the emitters hot probably made them more fragile on top of that. Had I not changed optics in this manner I probably would have had no failures at all. The unit I have that has the turbo-lag actually performs very well when it's hot but poorly below 90° where turbo mode (only) dims more and more as temp. decreases. My original units performance was unaffected by temp. (unfortunately down at the moment with a damaged emitter).
My original and last BT21 had similar output but driver characteristics differed. While I'm sure high internal temps. would ultimately affect the longevity of this light, considering my experiences and the fact that the major promise of the "s" model BT21 was more consistent performance my guess is that the driver had quality control problems that Nitefighter didn't consider worthwhile fixing.
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

> The electronics can handle the heat if they are spec'd for it.


Good electronics can easily stand 70C. That's too hot for a light as it will burn you if touched for more than a second or so.

I had access to a Flir thermal cam a few years ago and looked at the temp gradients across one of my lights. IIRC there was only 3C difference between the area around the LED mounting surface and the ends of the housing. Aluminum is a really good thermal conductor.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Also ALL these lights that have thermal step down have a thermistor. That's how they get the needed reading for thermal step down. So driver NEVER gets too hot unless cheap components are used in it. Which is what happens with Chinese lights.

Whats a thermocouple, a set of wires attached to a thermistor basically. A thermacouple simply does the exact same.as a thermistor mounted on a driver. It reads temperature based on resistance of the thermistor which increases resistance as it heats up.

You CANNOT isolate a driver from the thermal path because then it receives NO COOLING because it can't dissipate heat to the case. Thus frying the driver.

BT21 issue was actually more the LACK of thermal transfer to the head itself mote than anything. Driver couldn't dissipate it's own heat correctly and combined with low quality chips, it fails.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> You CANNOT isolate a driver from the thermal path because then it receives NO COOLING because it can't dissipate heat to the case. Thus frying the driver.


Sure you can. You just need to provide a secondary heat path for the driver. For example the back wall of the light.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

varider said:


> Sure you can. You just need to provide a secondary heat path for the driver. For example the back wall of the light.


George did a good write up on thermal considerations for his maxflex drivers.
http://taskled.com/leds/max4_thermal_guide.pdf


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Doesn't work that way, aluminum will still conduct the heat generated to the path that the driver uses. Driver will still heat up. And driver generates it's own heat on top of it.

Flashlights and bike lights alike are built the same way. Because it doesn't matter. Driver is just behind the emitters. 

The thermal path for the driver vs LED location only matters if the board the LEDs are on is in direct thermal contact with the driver and there isn't sufficient thermal transfer from the emitter PCB and the case, so heat is transfered into the driver as a thermal path. If there isn't a solid thermal connection and the emitter plate has proper transfer to the case, then driver is as safe as it's going to be.

Cheap driver failures are caused by 2 problems, first one the bt21 DID NOT suffer from as the driver was screwed into the housing. That problem is insufficient thermal transfer from driver to housing. Driver gets too hot and fries.

Second problem which is why all these Chinese lights end up with problems:

Cheap, crappy components used for the drivers. Barely able to handle the current and voltage, not rated for near the heat the system operates at. Simple as that.

As said, leds are mounted directly on their drivers in some cases with 0 ISSUES. WHY??? Because the components used on the driver are rated for the purpose. Not hard to have a driver rated to operate at 85C continuous for its claimed life cycle if it's not cheap chinese crap. But when you combine inefficiency (which means more heat generated) in the driver combined with cheap components not up to the task, the light fails.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Most of my DIY lights have had the driver in pretty direct contact with the LED heat path. Additionally I create a thermal path with a copper strip to the top of the driver's MCU (where the temp sensing occurs) so that the MCU can sense heat build up in the housing more quickly and step down if overheating. One of my friends is still using the second light I ever made which is about 6+ years ago. Thermal step down is set to 60C. He's a pretty fast roadie so it is probably pretty rare that it ever gets that hot. Quality components, good design and good assembly are what make a light durable.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Damn that's a good track record vanc. Quality stuff is good. I wish I was at that level. But in the interim, I'm gonna scoop a xp2/3. Cause I'm slightly addicted. My daytime road ride yesterday involved too much stress and danger. But to ride is most important! 16mi of high alert mode is bs.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I guess I got my weekly dose of led-light education.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Well, tried to put gw spot optics in my bt21. White plastic donuts fell out. Seemed they were glued to the emitter board. The optics themselves seem too tall and won't allow the bezel to sit flush. the o rings surely can't be used with these.... Wthell


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Rings aren't needed, optic is supposed to sit on the emitter. Also they are dished, few optics actually sit flush with the face plate (99% of lights the optics don't sit flush).

That's the problem with using gw optics in bt21s, things don't fit together right. The only way is Ituo style optics but remove the white holders

GW spot optics don't fit easily in these

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Well, tried to put gw spot optics in my bt21. White plastic donuts fell out. Seemed they were glued to the emitter board. The optics themselves seem too tall and won't allow the bezel to sit flush. the o rings surely can't be used with these.... Wthell


Manufacturing tolerances seemed to be one area Nitefighter didn't do a good job with. Check to see how the optics fit the bezel first. One of the bezels I have the optics fit very tight and have to be pushed into the bezel and mounted to the light-head together. Another one the fit is so loose they would just fall out so they needed to be mounted in the light over the emitter and then position the bezel over the light-head/emitters. I don't use the O-rings on the bezel but do use the circular shims on the emitter board (probably not necessary) and the fit is tighter than stock but still fits flush. It takes a little (only a little) more torque on the allen screws but don't force it if it doesn't seem right. Take it apart and reposition the emitters and check to see that the emitter board is positioned correctly in the machined recess on the light-head. The board is only held in place with thermal paste and if its cocked a little (same with the optics) it won't fit right and could damage the emitters. Don't be intimidated by this but be careful, lots people have done this successfully.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Yeah, got it done. Royal PITA compared to the Swiss watch build of the wiz20. Hate opening things up and sh1t falling out. I now hate this pos. but it's back together and looking pretty potent!! Nite ride coming up. If it gets below 75d that is.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Yeah, got it done. Royal PITA compared to the Swiss watch build of the wiz20. Hate opening things up and sh1t falling out. I now hate this pos. but it's back together and looking pretty potent!! Nite ride coming up. If it gets below 75d that is.


Have fun!!!:thumbsup:
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Short road ride with the bt21. 84f in Columbus. Way too hot. The bt21 is now way too powerful. Had to put it on medium. The hotspot is so intense, it was rippling the pavement. Slight exaggeration but these optics turned my bt21 into a 1800lm flamethrower. Ok I'll stop. Definite improvement Mole! Thx. I'd like to see the output difference it appears substantial. Doesn't seem that I lost a lot of "SPILL" either.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Short road ride with the bt21. 84f in Columbus. Way too hot. The bt21 is now way too powerful. Had to put it on medium. The hotspot is so intense, it was rippling the pavement. Slight exaggeration but these optics turned my bt21 into a 1800lm flamethrower. Ok I'll stop. Definite improvement Mole! Thx. I'd like to see the output difference it appears substantial. Doesn't seem that I lost a lot of "SPILL" either.


Now you know why I kept nagging you to do this. Tragic you can't get this light anymore!
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

If you like that, being its only actually a 1500ish lumen light, you know how the XP2 and such look at full power  Makes all other chinese lights look like crap, even the ones with 3 and 4 emitters lol. Id be surprised if those 7 emitter ones can even put out that much.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

:nono:I have a Gloworm x2 so I'm well aware of 1500lms mr Tig. I'm betting the bt21 has a slight advantage in output with these spots installed. It's all old news but it is a shame. This would be a go to light for the budget minded rider.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya it was a great light but like all chinese lights was plagued with quality issues.

At some point well see a branded light that is similar hopefully. The no quality issues to worry about, just an awesome light.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Short road ride with the bt21. 84f in Columbus. Way too hot. The bt21 is now way too powerful. Had to put it on medium. The hotspot is so intense, it was rippling the pavement. Slight exaggeration but these optics turned my bt21 into a 1800lm flamethrower. Ok I'll stop. Definite improvement Mole! Thx. *I'd like to see the output difference it appears substantial.* Doesn't seem that I lost a lot of "SPILL" either.


Biggest improvement on any optic change I ever made. Bounce test #'s were 20% higher, Center-beam were over 50% higher. Overall the optic change gave the BT21 about 5% better results than my X2 but the "WOW Factor" seemed much higher.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Ok, small news. Seems Revtronic has a few bt21s in da warehouse. They are going to post a link next week on BLF. The number is 10-30 units? I'm gonna jump if I can. Moles optic change makes this thing sing.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Ok, small news. Seems Revtronic has a few bt21s in da warehouse. They are going to post a link next week on BLF. The number is 10-30 units? I'm gonna jump if I can. Moles optic change makes this thing sing.


I'd really like to be able to pick an additional BT21 light-head. Don't know how to get to the "BLF" or where to look when I get there. Seems odd you can't just pre-order them now.
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

BLF is Budget Light Forums. Home for a lot of light geeks and much good info.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> I'd really like to be able to pick an additional BT21 light-head. Don't know how to get to the "BLF" or where to look when I get there. Seems odd you can't just pre-order them now.
> Mole


[email protected]: _1 day 7 hours ago, _At this stage we only have 10~30PCS Nitefighter BT21 light head in our warehouse, will sell it on our ebay store in the end of next week!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Patski, your link is going to the wrong place. Here you go:

Revtronic's Deals - Buy one get free one - 50% OFF to looking for honest review | BudgetLightForum.com

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Patski, your link is going to the wrong place. Here you go:
> 
> Revtronic's Deals - Buy one get free one - 50% OFF to looking for honest review | BudgetLightForum.com
> 
> -Garry


Actually the link that both of you supplied went to the same place. You just needed to add the comment, "Go to post #14 ", where the quote is. I still can't understand why there is still so much interest in the BT21, not that it's a bad light.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Not every rider wants to drop $150-250 on lights. Look at that video of the rider killing it with night fighter lights. For some (def not me I'm fully addicted) lights are a tool just like a hydro pack or a dropper. I'm liking mine with optics in. I saved money so now i can buy another light!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Where's this video you speak of o only videos I know of any are the ones I made 

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Ok, small news. Seems Revtronic has a few bt21s in da warehouse. They are going to post a link next week on BLF. The number is 10-30 units? I'm gonna jump if I can. Moles optic change makes this thing sing.


Got a PM from Andy today. Ordered 2 heads. If I receive the lights they will be light-meter tested, have the optics changed and the bezels will never be removed again till I burn something out. Thanks for the heads-up on this!
Mole


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> Patski, your link is going to the wrong place. Here you go:Revtronic's Deals - Buy one get free one - 50% OFF to looking for honest review Garry


Deal is up, here's the direct eBay link: Nitefighter BT21 Headlight Only

$20? I'm a super happy Gloworm owner but I ordered 2.. 

And a KD 4cell flatpack, 7.4V-6800mAh-4-x-NCR18650B-Rechargeable-18650-Li-ion-Battery-Pack


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

There is bad version of the connector if I'm seeing it right. Someone who got that last batch before might tell more, I hope.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Is that what he means by

*2. The plug has no bulge, you can check the picture, but works OK with BT40S battery pack.*

?

Thanks ledoman.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yeah, I know that, but also SolarStorm plugs "works". I wonder how good this one works with standard Magicshine female connector. Specialy if is tight enough not to fall apart on every bump.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Can you wind electrical tape or shrink wrap around the plug to make it stay connected better?

Were there other issues with this lamp?


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Got one coming. Bad plug and cold weather "turbo lag" is prolly the 2 big issues. I used my bt21 this summer and it worked flawlessly. In the winter, I have doubts.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Got one coming. Bad plug and cold weather "turbo lag" is prolly the 2 big issues. I used my bt21 this summer and it worked flawlessly. In the winter, I have doubts.


The power/mode switch problem is what concerns me but those of us who know of the availability of this light should also be familiar with its problems. Living in the desert the "driver turbo lag" is less of a concern for me and I will say that the last unit I had was a much better performer above 90 degrees. Plug problem is easily fixed and considering the performance potential of the BT21 it's worth taking the risk for me. I estimate my usage habits contributed to the demise of my first units so I'm planning on treating the new ones more delicately and keeping my fingers crossed. If I lived in a colder climate I don't think I'd take the risk. In a month or so we'll see how this works out!
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Yeah, hope folks don't order the bt21 and expect perfection. Its a cheap light that does the bidness. Pair it up with the bt40 and yr Rollin for cheap.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*What do you plan on doing with your extra bt21 lights?*


Considering you had to contact Andy directly to be informed when the "Factory Scraps" of the BT21 were put on sale I'm assuming most who will get one of these lights already have one. Curious what your plans are for the duplicate light?

Since I managed to damage emitters in all my BT21's changing optics over and over the plan for my new ones is to put Gloworm XS spots in one and XS "Wide Angle's" in the other (I ordered 2) and refrain from changing them again. My original is down ATM with emitter damage but I have some xm-l2 U3 3D replacements I plan on reflowing to get that one going again (hope for a small power increase with these). The remaining one while still working is a good 15% down on lux #'s from new and has gotten extremely warm in tint color (assume emitter damage though I can't see anything, power still 2.8 A to emitter board). Already have a emitter board with xm-l2 U4 1A (dedomed) reflowed and just need to solder it in. Been procrastinating on these projects but have all the parts so I'll get to eventually.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Well, my bt21 lighthead shipped out today. I look forward to your testing MOLE. Mine will remain stock and I'm going to use my other bt21 on da helmet (spot optics in side) for $100 total bill for approx 3k lumens. KD 2cell, bt21x2 with one being a full kit.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

:thumbsup:Bt21 is in the mailbox. Not bad shipping from China.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

I ordered one of the last 2 lighthead listed on ebay. For the Gloworm optics mod, I just order 2 of the gloworm xs/x2 spot optics from here
Gloworm XS/X2 Spot Optic ? Action-LED-Lights
right? TIA


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Those are the correct optics (also best optics for this light). Can't hardly believe you got your light already (Dirt). My tracking info. says between 9/22 and 10/28 but it sounds like I might get an early surprise (I won't hold my breath though). Since you got your first you get to field all the questions. How's the battery connector (good fit)? Any issues with the mode switch? Does it have the "Turbo-lag"? Also glad to hear the lights sold out quickly. I hope Nitefighter/Revtronic pays attention to the interest level in this light. An upgraded version should be fantastic. Prototype light from Gearbest look promising but will probably cost double what a new BT21 would. Hate to see people buy Yindings cause they don't think they need that much light. 
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Good job getting the optics changed pwu, makes a huge difference! Do a before and after test. It's really quite amazing. Unfortunately I am not home, I'm in Iowa, so no review from me. Do you use usps tracking MOLE? Mine hit customs in flushing ny on tues Delivered today. No big shock, most stuff from BANGGOOD/Gearbest is really quick on shipping! Batteries take a bit longer ime...


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

MRMOLE said:


> Those are the correct optics (also best optics for this light). Can't hardly believe you got your light already (Dirt). My tracking info. says between 9/22 and 10/28 but it sounds like I might get an early surprise (I won't hold my breath though). Since you got your first you get to field all the questions. How's the battery connector (good fit)? Any issues with the mode switch? Does it have the "Turbo-lag"? Also glad to hear the lights sold out quickly. I hope Nitefighter/Revtronic pays attention to the interest level in this light. An upgraded version should be fantastic. Prototype light from Gearbest look promising but will probably cost double what a new BT21 would. Hate to see people buy Yindings cause they don't think they need that much light.
> Mole


Sorry didn't mean to confuse but I haven't received the light yet. I popped in to this thread today and followed the ebay link and saw that there was only 2 left so I grabbed one. Going to wait until I receive the light and check it out first before I order the optics since that will essentially double the cost of the light and I want to make sure the light I receive is ok before I commit. I'm not too concerned about the plug since I'll be mounting this on a helmet and will be using an extension. Worse case is I lightly tape the plug to the extension so there's not accidental disconnects but will still break away at the battery/extension junction if something goes terribly wrong.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Good job getting the optics changed pwu, makes a huge difference! Do a before and after test. It's really quite amazing. Unfortunately I am not home, I'm in Iowa, so no review from me. Do you use usps tracking MOLE? Mine hit customs in flushing ny on tues Delivered today. No big shock, most stuff from BANGGOOD/Gearbest is really quick on shipping! Batteries take a bit longer ime...


When I ordered off Ebay I saw no shipping options just the free shipping. Shows China Post on my tracking. Did I miss something? The China post orders I've gotten in the past have ended up being delivered by USPS but tracking still shows in transit. Hope I didn't order it the wrong way but too late to do anything about it now if I did. You may still get to field all the questions.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

pwu_1 said:


> Sorry didn't mean to confuse but I haven't received the light yet. I popped in to this thread today and followed the ebay link and saw that there was only 2 left so I grabbed one. Going to wait until I receive the light and check it out first before I order the optics since that will essentially double the cost of the light and I want to make sure the light I receive is ok before I commit. I'm not too concerned about the plug since I'll be mounting this on a helmet and will be using an extension. Worse case is I lightly tape the plug to the extension so there's not accidental disconnects but will still break away at the battery/extension junction if something goes terribly wrong.


Thanks, It is actually me who wasn't very clear. I was commenting on your and Dirt Raod's post. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: As dirt said the Gloworm optics are a very good modification. Brightens up the light in general but really adds to the throw!
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I just ordered regular shipping and tracked it on USPS website. Use the tracking # and USPS will show status. If your already doing this then ur getting the slowboat shipping, joking it'll be here soon I'm sure.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> I just ordered regular shipping and tracked it on USPS website. Use the tracking # and USPS will show status. If your already doing this then ur getting the slowboat shipping, joking it'll be here soon I'm sure.


I was tracking it off links on the email Ebay sent me. I'll going to USPS and hope that works. Even if it ends up being slowboat I'm still happy to have been able to get a chance at getting a couple more of these lights.
Now back to doing a thermal test on the XP2. Thanks for the help!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

OK, found it on USPS tracking and says it's still in China (8 days since ordered). Backtracked to the ebay page listing the light and it says 14 - 38 days estimated shipping time. Wouldn't let me get to order page cause they're sold out Trying to order something else showed standard shipping (5 days). Seriously don't remember seeing that when I ordered (and don't know how I could miss it it's so obvious) but didn't see the free shipping I remembered and selected nothing for shipping anyway seeing no options. Don't know what to think happened but I'm pretty sure at this point I'm getting the "slow boat" delivery. One question, did you have a shipping charge Dirt?:cryin:
Mole


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Ordered mine on 9/2 and it got to SF yesterday. Ebay shows expected delivery as 10/31. 
I think I'll have it next week sometime.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Nope free shipping, $19.99 PayPal. I don't remember the shipping options cause I have several pkgs heading my way. The post lady gives me dirty looks when I see her!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Thanks for the information guys. Just checked the tracking again and still says it's in China. Not the first time the first to order is the last to receive. Shipping was free so I'm not going to get to upset as long as I get my lights.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

A bit relieved to see some action on the tracking of my order (Arrived in LA this morning). Est. del. date (to Phoenix) is the 17th. May have taken longer than others who have posted here but still the shortest delivery time for free shipping I've had from China.
Mole


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Mine was delivered on Saturday. Haven't test fit a battery yet to see how the lead is. Waiting for my Gloworm lens' to arrive


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

mestapho said:


> Mine was delivered on Saturday.


Mine also, ordered on Sep1.

Fastest I've had also.... ordered a 4cell flatpack from KD the same day and it's just left the west nassau ny usps facility.



MRMOLE said:


> A bit relieved to see some action on the tracking of my order (Arrived in LA this morning). Est. del. date (to Phoenix) is the 17th. May have taken longer than others who have posted here but still the shortest delivery time for free shipping I've had from China.
> Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mestapho said:


> Mine was delivered on Saturday. Haven't test fit a battery yet to see how the lead is. Waiting for my Gloworm lens' to arrive


Reminds me I should order some more optics too. I've got enough of the GW's but want to try a fresh set compared to the ones I have with some mileage. Some of my Leddna optics have lost performance with use and want to see if the GW's are similarly effected.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

think those 25d optics from Ituo would work?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> think those 25d optics from Ituo would work?


Should fit if taken out of the white optic holders. I plan on using the one running bt21 I have as a test mule for the GW optics and I'll try out the 25's also with the light meter and let you know how it worked. Narrow spots don't work as well without the white holders but can't say for sure without testing on the 25's. Will do a road test too.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Good mail*


Satisfying contents of my mailbox today.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

:thumbsup:Excellent! Nice mount, that is!


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

*Tomorrow will be 2m29s shorter*



patski said:


> Mine also, ordered on Sep1.
> 
> Fastest I've had also.... ordered a 4cell flatpack from KD the same day and it's just left the west nassau ny usps facility.


My 4cell flat pack from KD arrived today, ordered on Sep1.

Today:
Length of Visible Light 13h 21m
Length of Day 12h 27m
Tomorrow will be *2m29s shorter*.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Damn that's freakin fast for batteries! Standard shipping?


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Dirt Road said:


> Damn that's freakin fast for batteries! Standard shipping?


Whatever the default/free option was...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

No mistaking which batch of BT21's the lights I got came from. Loose fitting connectors, yes but actually not a problem for me. They fit loosly on the Nitefighter batteries I have but a good snug fit with all the other brands (Ituo/Xeccon/Gemini) I own. Turbo-Lag, yes but to a vastly different level (actually all BT21's have Turbo-Lag. it's just not noticeable unless you check current draw). Current draw test I did was light activation to 130 degrees (case temp.). New light A: 240 - 276A. New light B: 165-212A, Old still working light (not original batch): 1.76 - 2.05A. Range of change is similar on all examples but the highest output driver changes quickly where the other 2 gradually increased till I shut them off. Strangely enough the new light with the lower draw produced more lux on my light meter. What's up with that (love to here some possible causes for that)? Bad switch, yes but I'll call it very glitch (if it fails I'll call it bad). Symptoms: one light is hard to turn on (takes several tries), both don't always switch modes on one click. Livable but annoying. Most disappointing is overall power seem less than all my originals but I'll wait to see how they perform when I get my new optics for Action tomorrow. Knew this was risky so I'm nor surprised or upset at the lights quality or performance. Sounds like I got one light with a good driver so maybe can figure out why isn't quite what it should be (lux #'s) and end up with another good performing BT21. Opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Thx MRMOLE for confirming the batch quality. Not surprised. .5+ amps should show up on a light meter I would think? I have not had any issues with my plug either, and top button works good. That's my old 2nd batch lamp with the gw spots. I have not seen my new one yet.... Still for $20 I ain't going to complain too much. Look forward to your further tests and the causes of the strange current/lux readings!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Thx MRMOLE for confirming the batch quality. Not surprised. .5+ amps should show up on a light meter I would think? I have not had any issues with my plug either, and top button works good. That's my old 2nd batch lamp with the gw spots. I have not seen my new one yet.... Still for $20 I ain't going to complain too much. Look forward to your further tests and the causes of the strange current/lux readings!


Considering what you get I think it's still a better value than a Yinding as long as the glitches noted don't effect long term reliability. More power, cooler running, inconsistent mode switch is no worse than the awkward one on the "Ding" and lower price too. Multimeter amp. readings on the stronger one match my 1st gen. BT21 so I'm hopeful I can make at least one good one. Have to take some current readings off the leads on the emitter boards and see what I get. Hope your light is more representative of what previous BT21's were.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*New Gloworm XS spot optics:* Looks like degrading performance over time is a characteristic of GW optics too. In the past I'd noted this in the Leddna optics but the GW's had seemed to maintain there performance. It now appears that it just takes more time (a lot more) for them to weaken. Definitely going to have to do a retest with my Ituo lights.

*Lower amp draw new BT21:* This light is performing better with some use. New GW optics perked this light up quite a bit and it now slightly out-powers my GW X2 (with new optics) when fully warmed up. Satisfied with performance and going to leave this on along and use it as is.

*Higher amp. draw new BT21:* This is the one I had the most hope for. Visually had little or no "Turbo-Lag", drew just under 2.8a but also produced the lowest lux #'s and would dim noticeably and quickly from start-up. On the bench would produce OK start-up lux #'s but fade approx. 20% within a couple of minutes (current draw would remain stable). This light also had another strange symptom, the optics would stick to the emitter board when removing. Tested it with the stock optics, old GW spots and new GW spots noticed the sticking with all of them. Noticed one of the new GW optics looked a little strange after removing it from this light which ended up being the dome from one of the emitters that was stuck inside the optic. Dome came out in one piece and light still works which is good. obviously will change the way the light performs (lower lux but increased throw) but not sure it would account for the large power decrease from start-up (I know some is normal). Thinking I may put the U4 1A dedomed board in this one and see what I get,

Anyway that's what's new with my lights, curious to here the luck others are having with their "Factory scraps".
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Well I guess I'll give the 25d Ituo optics a try today. Nvr considered optics degrading but I guess it makes sense with the heat cycles these lights go through. Emitter swap sounds a lil too technical for me, but I'm looking forward to seeing how the bt21 turns out MRMOLE!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah I never heard of optics degrading. Thanks for sharing your results on this Mole. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Noticed the issue with the Leddna optics last yr. Comparing several lights with the different optics I noticed the trend that the performance gap between the Leddna and Gloworm optics was gradually growing over time. The GW's weren't getting stronger but the Leddna's were getting weaker. Didn't think any more about t till I got my Ituo lights and was surprised the Gloworm optics weren't quite as good as the stock optics in these lights. These leftover BT21's convinced me I needed to try new ones when I noticed very little advantage over the stock Nitefighter optics, should have provided a fairly dramatic performance upgrade (right Dirt). So here we are. This is just my interpretation of what my readings mean and just raw data for however you want to use or interpret it. May be caused by heat cycles as Dirt suggested and only be a problem of me.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Just shining the new bt21 compared to my older model there's a huge difference in output. These Gw spots kick butt. I'm sure as hell ain't swapping them around after MRMOLE's lil glitch! I may try the 25d optics to wake the new one up a bit. It's strange I never had a problem with the top button, now my old bt21 is giving me problems. Wtf! My new one seems good to go. Still a decent lamp with the frosted optics in.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

After 16 days mine BT21 has been finaly shipped to overseas says tracking at SG post. Very expedited service, no doubt. Now I can wait another week or two. :/


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> After 16 days mine BT21 has been finaly shipped to overseas says tracking at SG post. Very expedited service, no doubt. Now I can wait another week or two. :/


Surprised to see you bought another BT21. Last we communicated on this light I got the impression you were disappointed over all with the lights performance. Did your first one start working better? Just curious.
Mole


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Well, I bought another for a friend. For the money light is still good enough. And to be honest the amount of light is big enough for an average user. If I compare it with my first Magicshine MJ-808 with P7 led it is like day and night. Especialy when I have to pay about $80 for the set at that time and it was considered cheap. It was only light used + some minor torch on the bar as an backup and we have managed to ride at night. Now we have 4 times of that amount and we still searching for better :/

Unfortunately I didn't run my first light so many times and did not check it lately so can't tell. I can try to check it again. More likely will do it when second one arrives and will do comparation.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ledoman said:


> Well, I bought another for a friend. For the money light is still good enough. And to be honest the amount of light is big enough for an average user. If I compare it with my first Magicshine MJ-808 with P7 led it is like day and night. Especialy when I have to pay about $80 for the set at that time and it was considered cheap. It was only light used + some minor torch on the bar as an backup and we have managed to ride at night. Now we have 4 times of that amount and we still searching for better :/
> 
> Unfortunately I didn't run my first light so many times and did not check it lately so can't tell. I can try to check it again. More likely will do it when second one arrives and will do comparation.


Your right, it's a pretty good light even if turbo doesn't work so good for you. Was my first light with a top positioned mode button, one of the reasons I like the light so much. Hope your friend enjoys the light.
Mole


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## kingchickenstrip (May 29, 2013)

Are there any more BT-21s out there, or are they all sold out??


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

kingchickenstrip said:


> Are there any more BT-21s out there, or are they all sold out??


Coming up on a yr. since they stopped production on this light. Probably this was the last of them.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya bt21 is totally gone. What these guys bought was stuff collecting dust (and some are already having problems with them it seems). One of mine died after not to long, my second one started having turbo lag issues. So I wasn't keen on hoping to get a solid one for my collection out of this batch. My one that has a custom driver stuffed in it will be it.

Though I enjoy my quality lights a lot these days. Haven't ridden any of my cheap and modded lights since spring.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

What Custom driver are you talking about tigris? There are still some bt21's left in this shop in Finland for 60euros for a set. Dont know which batch they are yet but I think I'm going to get one anyways because I think the frame is really good.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

It's not a driver you can easily get. It's a modified (already custom designed by a shop here in the states) flashlight buck driver that has been adapted for momentary switch function. I had to machine a little aluminum housing to hold it inside the case. 20x22x12mm hole is where the stock driver sits. 17mm round driver is what I stuffed in it lol.

Then 2 xp-l hi v2 on noctigons (machined inside the case to fit these). At 3.5A current they are producing just over 1900 lumens. Regular xp-l v6 was well over 2000 lumens.

Added vancbikers lopro finned mount and this thing has stupid throw but with the xp-l hi it's more like a flashlight reflector beam pattern. To tight for my tastes except when playing on the fat bike roaming around on snow mobile tracks and such.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

I posted it in some other tread and now Can't find it lol(don't post before you have your coffee. I got two BT 21 from Gearbest. One of the batterys didn't work. And long story short they wouldn't doing anything to replace it. It's the wire from the battery that is defective right next to the female conection. If I bend it just right I can get it to make the conection. Does anyone know where I can get a new wire? Or battery? I'd let to NOT order from Hong Kong or China. I deffently won't do bussness with GEARBEST, they made me jump through hoops and than stopped responding. If it's to much of a hassle or to much money I'll just get a differnt light. I wanted to get a handle bar light for my wife and I. Thanks guys


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Kaidomain is a good source for battery packs that will fit the bt21.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Hunk_lee on eBay is good for batteries as well.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Or simply this http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S024776.5_5mm-x-2_1mm-Male-to-Female-20AWG-Extension-Cable-100cm-Length


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hunk Lee doesn't offer packs with the correct connectors

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

ledoman said:


> Or simply this http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S024776.5_5mm-x-2_1mm-Male-to-Female-20AWG-Extension-Cable-100cm-Length


If you live in an Prime zone, Lotsa cables on Amazon, http://amzn.to/2ddADG3


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

I use two hunk lee packs with no issues


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I tracked down my missing go pro mount for the bt21! Happy times, got the MRMOLE optics (gloworm spots) in and going to use on the helmet tonight along with another cheapo, KD xhp70 4k on the bars. Its hard using cheapie lights when I have xp3/x2/xs sitting there, but there's lights that can get it done and not drop $300-400 bones on them.
I say use what works and buy more beer!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> I tracked down my missing go pro mount for the bt21! Happy times, got the MRMOLE optics (gloworm spots) in and going to use on the helmet tonight along with another cheapo, KD xhp70 4k on the bars. Its hard using cheapie lights when I have xp3/x2/xs sitting there, but there's lights that can get it done and not drop $300-400 bones on them.
> I say use what works and buy more beer!


I feel guilty leaving my expensive lights at home too. Properly running BT21 is an awesome light though and never left me wanting more. Most of the time I just run my XP3/XS @ lower power levels anyway!
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

With a rain shortened ride, I found the bt21 to be quite excellent on the helmet. I used my KD 2cell pack and was impressed with my $40 combo. I could easily get by with a bt21/bt40 nitefighter pairing at $80 for a good neutral white setup. Oh yeah, I forgot the expensive optics so I need to add $16 bux! Damnit MRMOLE. But well worth it.


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## randan (May 18, 2005)

Will these Gloworm XS optics fit in the BT21?

I know this has been discussed somewhere but I cannot find it anymore. Thanks in advance.


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## Wire (Nov 2, 2015)

randan said:


> Will these Gloworm XS optics fit in the BT21?


Yes. I use them in my BT21. Nice throw.


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## randan (May 18, 2005)

Thank you. Did you have to do any modifications to fit the Gloworm optics in the BT21?


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

No modifications needed. Just a little patience with assembly. Do a before and after ride. It's quite an upgrade. But downside is it nearly doubles the price of lighthead. It's worth it and really wakes up an already good light.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Posting the info here for anyone that has missed it in the BT40S thread: I was in contact with Andy Wong (head of Nitefighter / Revtronic) and questioned him about the coming back out with the BT21 or something similar. I told him there were a lot of forum members wishing this light was still available. His response was "we will surely bring it back in 2017". 

I wouldn't take that as a promise, but we can at least be hopeful. 

-Garry


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

That's good news. Awesome little light, bad decision not to bring it back sooner.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I knew you would be one to get excited over the news.

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> garrybunk said:
> 
> 
> > Posting the info here for anyone that has missed it in the BT40S thread: I was in contact with Andy Wong (head of Nitefighter / Revtronic) and questioned him about the coming back out with the BT21 or something similar. I told him there were a lot of forum members wishing this light was still available. His response was "we will surely bring it back in 2017".
> ...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*ATTN ANDY,*

I assume all the issues (inconsistent driver performance, loose battery connector fit, bad mode button) the BT21 had would be fixed on re-introduction of the light along with the inclusion of the latest emitters. I ask that you also consider using the LEDDNA style optics and a slight redesign of the bezel to accept them. Many of MTBR BT21 owners added the LEDDNA/Gloworm optics and it resulted in a substantial performance increase (not just beam reshaping) but wasn't the best fit. I'm sure you outsource for the optics anyway and this would make the BT21 a much better light.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Any new BT21 information*



Used 2 of my BT21's for lighting on last nights ride, a good reminder of how good this light was. One of those rare nostalgic moments where recalled performance doesn't disappoint compared to the latest available products. I had a good time and enjoyed the lights and got me thinking about the rumor of a Nitefighter/Revtronic BT21s upgrade/re-release. Andy, Gary or anyone else that may have any information I'd love an update. Hate to think this project died again!
Mole


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

I use mine daily as a commuter light and have for a couple years now. It's been great (if a bit over powered for city commuting) and I'm even on the original battery pack.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

No news on the mighty BT21? Damn shame! We need more bike light aficionados recruited! Looking at BLF, and the buying power they generate. Damn skippy the bt21 would be resurrected! Their latest custom light has 1100 or more preorders. 5000 lumen soda can light, Q8.


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## Smilely (Oct 14, 2011)

I'd pick up a second one if they were available. If they are going to make a new batch, a GoPro style mount would be welcome.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Smilely said:


> I'd pick up a second one if they were available. If they are going to make a new batch, a GoPro style mount would be welcome.


Pretty common for people to own more than one of these lights (or wish they did). It's a very versatile light that works well bar or helmet plus cheap enough to get a couple of extras for spares/loaners. How many of you out there own more than one BT21???

Smilely, here's a couple of GoPro mounts I have for the BT21. The black one is actually a Nitefighter product sold by GearBest and the silver high mass/surface area finned one I got from "Vancbiker" cause I ride in 100 degree temps. all the time and it helps keep things cooler.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I've not heard any update on a BT21 replacement but I haven't inquired either. I did check their website a few weeks ago and didn't see anything new. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> garrybunk said:
> 
> 
> > I've not heard any update on a BT21 replacement but I haven't inquired either. I did check their website a few weeks ago and didn't see anything new.
> ...


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Building BT21 clones has been kicking around in my head for some time now. I even went so far as getting a quote on an extrusion with the fins in it to try to keep the housing cost down. Machining fins is fairly time consuming so an extrusion seemed a good idea. An extrusion requires a die to be made and the extruder wanted $5000 for 500lbs as a minimum purchase. 500lbs makes a lot of housings. In the end it just seemed like too big a project for a one man operation to pull off.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> Building BT21 clones has been kicking around in my head for some time now. I even went so far as getting a quote on an extrusion with the fins in it to try to keep the housing cost down. Machining fins is fairly time consuming so an extrusion seemed a good idea. An extrusion requires a die to be made and the extruder wanted $5000 for 500lbs as a minimum purchase. 500lbs makes a lot of housings. In the end it just seemed like too big a project for a one man operation to pull off.


Our loss that you didn't go ahead with this. I'm sure we would have ended with a much better light even though cost would have gone up. I've seen several posts saying additional cost for original model quality/performance was not an issue. Better quality control of the parts used to assemble the light and we'd still have it as a purchasing option. I'm surprised nobody else has tried to clone the BT21 and can only hope Revtronic will realize this is still a very marketable product and start selling these again.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

BTW - I was contacted by a rep at Banggood to review another light (nothing worth reviewing though) and they said they were interested in trying to manufacture a custom light for us. I just don't know that I have the time to commit to heading something like this up. I could point them to the BT21 and the potential for sales for a similar light I suppose. However, I'd hate to steal sales away from Andy (even though other Chinese manufacturers likely wouldn't think twice). As far as a custom light goes, perhaps a dual emitter using the BT21 design as a starting point is the first community need, with the custom triple being on the back burner until afterwards. 

Maybe I should touch base with Andy and see if he has anything in the works. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Garry, no reason you couldn't just express the need for a 2 emitter light with changeable optics, programmable mode settings, GoPro compatible mount, top positioned mode button, etc. that has better cooling and more power (1500+ lumens) than a Yinding and see what they come up with. I still believe that convincing Andy to bring the BT21 back is the best way to get what I want anyway. Other similar lights (XP2, X2. Duo) have similar power (a good bit more with the 2017 X2), more features, better quality components (and cost more) but none of those match the actual use visibility (power + tint + beam coverage) I get from my BT21's. Lucky for me I have several but still would be first in line to buy a newer upgraded version.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Good to hear Garry. Get it done sir, and the budget bike light community will be in your debt! I'm in as well.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I emailed Andy over a week ago inquiring on the status of the updated BT21 or it's replacement, but I haven't had any response. This is odd considering he has always responded rather quickly to me emails. I've not contacted Banggood yet about the possibility of a "custom" light, it's on my todo list.

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> garrybunk said:
> 
> 
> > I emailed Andy over a week ago inquiring on the status of the updated BT21 or it's replacement, but I haven't had any response. This is odd considering he has always responded rather quickly to me emails. I've not contacted Banggood yet about the possibility of a "custom" light, it's on my todo list.
> ...


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## HDsilakka (Nov 22, 2015)

i think my bt21 driver is broken, only 2/4 modes work and some flickering :madman: where to buy new driver/leds?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You could try emailing Andy at Revtronic (Nitefighters new name) - contact email on their website. Otherwise you might just be best to fit another driver in there like a Nanjg 105c (which is customizable, and you definitely need one setup for a momentary button). Not sure how much space you have to fit it, nor how the button would mount. RAKC needs to chime in as he went through this.

-Garry


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## HDsilakka (Nov 22, 2015)

Current driver is ~19.50mm x 22.50mm and its about max size. My battery packs is 8.4v so i think i have to find suitable driver for that voltage (nanjg 105c INPUT VOLTAGE	3.0~4.5 -volt)

I did take these measurements last year from input cable:
8.40v 0.05A 0.42W
8.34v 0.41A 3.44W
8.34v 1.20A 10.00W
8.24v 2.91A 23,98W


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Oh yeah, whoops, would be even more customizing with a 105c. I'm not up to date on 2S suited driver offerings. I swear RAKC used a Nanjg 105c though, but I could be wrong. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

HDsilakka said:


> i think my bt21 driver is broken, only 2/4 modes work and some flickering :madman: where to buy new driver/leds?


BT21's are great lights, don't blame you for wanting to fix it rather than get something new. Too bad we don't live closer as I have a BT21 that just has a separated PCB wire on the inside of the light. My eyes are too weak to work on things like that anymore and you'd be welcome to have it but wouldn't be worth shipping it from Arizona to Finland. Please let us know how you project works out!
Mole


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I used a custom driver actually. Had to machine an aluminum block to fit it to hold it securely and dissipate heat. One of the MTN custom flashlight drivers, he was able to mod for ability to use a normal switch instead of a flashlight clicky

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Reviving this with a question. My BT21 battery gave up the ghost tonight after about an hour and a half of riding. Not enough run time given that I wasn't running it very high most of the time. Trying to decide whether it's worth getting a new Glowworm X2 or just getting a new battery for the BT21. Also, is anyone running a decent 2 cell and getting good run times?

[My BT21 has the factory "BA8C-B 7.4v" 5200mAh 4 cell]


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Structure said:


> Reviving this with a question. My BT21 battery gave up the ghost tonight after about an hour and a half of riding. Not enough run time given that I wasn't running it very high most of the time. Trying to decide whether it's worth getting a new Glowworm X2 or just getting a new battery for the BT21. Also, is anyone running a decent 2 cell and getting good run times?
> 
> [My BT21 has the factory "BA8C-B 7.4v" 5200mAh 4 cell]


Does your BT21 have the stock optics and mount? Do you see a significant gain in output switching from high to turbo? Do you frequently use the turbo mode? Do you frequently ride in 100 degree ride temperatures? What are you expecting to gain from the Gloworm X2 over your current BT21? I own BT21's and most of the current Gloworm's so should be able to give you detailed +'s and -'s of each light but because BT21 performance can vary quite a bit I need to know where your starting from in regards to your BT21's performance.
Mole

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=7.4V+panasonic&LH_PrefLoc=1&_ssn=hunk_lee&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=+Pana_sonic+NCR18650B&_sacat=0


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I use a no longer available Fenix 2 cell case with my own high-capacity LG cells (cells are not "high drain", but hold pretty high voltage across the discharge cycle which means higher output across the total runtime). I don't have any issue at all completing my rides with one set of batteries and mostly running high mode with occasional bursts to Turbo. My rides are not long though - probably 2 hours tops.

I would try to go with a pack built from better cells, esp. since you're looking for a 2-cell pack handling +/- 2.8A current draw ("high-discharge" cells or at least cells which have less voltage drop during discharge). The Panny NCR18650B cells are mediocre and a dime a dozen. You can get much better cells out there now, the problem being finding someone building the packs! Best option is the two-cell pack KD has, but good luck getting it shipped out to you!

-Garry


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

MRMOLE said:


> Does your BT21 have the stock optics and mount? Do you see a significant gain in output switching from high to turbo? Do you frequently use the turbo mode? Do you frequently ride in 100 degree ride temperatures? What are you expecting to gain from the Gloworm X2 over your current BT21? I own BT21's and most of the current Gloworm's so should be able to give you detailed +'s and -'s of each light but because BT21 performance can vary quite a bit I need to know where your starting from in regards to your BT21's performance.
> Mole
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=7.4V+panasonic&LH_PrefLoc=1&_ssn=hunk_lee&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=+Pana_sonic+NCR18650B&_sacat=0


Hi MrMole. Thanks for the reply. My BT21 is running the finned aluminum Vanbiker identical to the one in your photo above, mounted to a GoPro on my helmet. I have the stock optics.

I notice a small brightness increase with Turbo but don't use it often. I also run a much stronger light on the bars so I've never felt the need to run the BT21 at turbo.

I live in Coastal California. It's almost never over a 100 and never at night. Most night riding is 40-50 degrees.

I was looking at the Glowworm just because it seemed like I would be spending $100 or there abouts for a good new battery pack for the BT21 and that for "only" a few bucks more I could just get a new unit. I don't have any real complaints about the BT21 but getting a wireless remote and some extra lumans seemed worth considering.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Thanks, garrybunk! It sounds to me like I could get by with a good 2-cell. I was surprised my 4-cell died last night so soon, but in addition to being cheap, it's a few years old so I guess I got good use out of it.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Structure said:


> Hi MrMole. Thanks for the reply. My BT21 is running the finned aluminum Vanbiker identical to the one in your photo above, mounted to a GoPro on my helmet. I have the stock optics.
> 
> I notice a small brightness increase with Turbo but don't use it often. I also run a much stronger light on the bars so I've never felt the need to run the BT21 at turbo.
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like cost is only real consideration for upgrading to the X2. Battery source I provided the link to should also have 2 cell batteries for even less money but these also can be a shipping problem (time) unless they are in stock in the US. Action-LED-Lights is a safe/reliable/fast shipping source for batteries but cost will be higher.

What your going to get if you decide to spend the extra money on the Gloworm X2 is:
1) The wireless remote you mentioned. (best functioning remote unit I've ever used)
2) Smaller/lighter lighthead unit which should be more comfortable.
3) Excellent Gloworm mounts (helmet and bar). Possible these will work with your bar light dependiung on what your currently using.
4) Extra output. I'd expect at least 30% more overall but throw on the Gloworm lights is very good and I wouldn't be surprised if you get 50% more beam distance.
5) A warranty.

Gloworm Alpha is also an excellent helmet light at considerably less cost. Less output than the X2 (more than the BT21 in high mode) overall but similar throw advantage (narrower beam). No remote option though.

Curious what your using as a bar light and is the emitter tint neutral white like your BT21? If you order from Action you can get either cool or neutral (at an extra charge).
Mole


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

garrybunk said:


> I would try to go with a pack built from better cells, esp. since you're looking for a 2-cell pack handling +/- 2.8A current draw ("high-discharge" cells or at least cells which have less voltage drop during discharge). The Panny NCR18650B cells are mediocre and a dime a dozen. You can get much better cells out there now, the problem being finding someone building the packs! Best option is the two-cell pack KD has, but good luck getting it shipped out to you!
> 
> -Garry


Kaidomain shipped me 6 of them in a week- I paid a little more for courier but they ended up costing $37 Canadian all-in.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Structure said:


> .....I was surprised my 4-cell died last night so soon, but in addition to being cheap, it's a few years old so I guess I got good use out of it.


Odds are pretty good that your pack has unbalanced cells rather than really going bad. If you have some soldering skills and a hobby charger you can add a balance charge connector.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Vancbiker said:


> Odds are pretty good that your pack has unbalanced cells rather than really going bad. If you have some soldering skills and a hobby charger you can add a balance charge connector.


Thanks for the tip. It would be a new experience for me but I can solder. No hobby charger.

I ordered the Panasonic 4-cell on Ebay that MrMole pointed to. At $30 it was any easy solution and should fit right in my existing case. Plus, my "biking cash" is currently getting sucked into suspension updates for the TBLTc.

My main light is a Magic Shine MJ-906 which is not a good color match to the BT21. Maybe that will be the next issue to tackle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Structure said:


> My main light is a Magic Shine MJ-906 which is not a good color match to the BT21. Maybe that will be the next issue to tackle.


Definitely not an ideal combo. When your ready there's a couple of inexpensive things you could do to greatly increase the effectiveness of your BT21. Since you can solder you should have no problem reflowing some cool white emitters into your BT21 (garrybunk/post #1650 has a video on that if you want to PM him). Standard optics on the BT21 are pretty inefficient. Majority of the performance advantage the Gloworm X2 enjoys over the BT21 are because of these optics (X2/XS spots). They're a tight fit but really wake up the BT21, especially the throw.
Mole

https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/gloworm-parts-and-accessories/products/gloworm-xs-x2-spot-optic


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Listen to MOLE. The gloworm optics alone are a game changer. As far as reflow, no way! But I’m a warm white 4K like!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> Listen to MOLE. The gloworm optics alone are a game changer. *As far as reflow, no way!* But I'm a warm white 4K like!


True, I guess you could switch the Magicshine emitters to NW. Probably increase the degree of difficulty a bit and definitely the cost but end result would be more to my liking. Either way matching tints best way to go.
Mole


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