# Buying an entry level bike + an immediate air fork upgrade?



## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

Hi there.

I've currently got a 2004 (I'm fairly sure that's the correct year) Trek 4500, and have been considering an upgrade soon.

I'm 6'2'' and around 230 and have been looking at 29'' bikes as a potential upgrade.

I've also been thinking that a fork with air suspension would be probably the best improvement that I could buy on the new bike, along with the move from V brakes to disc brakes which I'm looking forward to.

So, as someone who always over-researches purchases, I feel like finding the entry-level bike (under $600 MSRP) with the best components + an air fork would present me with the best bang for he buck, no?

Since all of the bikes some with Suntour forks, I would take advantage of the upgrade program and get their Raidon fork for $189. (Or a Recon if people think it's really worth the extra ~$45.)
I made a comparison of all of the entry level bikes that are available at dealers that can be seen here.

I figured sorting them by the quality of their drivetrain would be the best way to find out which bike would be the best pick, correct?
Therefore, I assumed the Giant Revel would be the best value, since it's $550 and has the best components of the lot (comparable to the Felt but $50 cheaper).

So my questions are:

1) Would this be correct? Assuming that the drivetrain is really the only big difference between the bikes at this level when you consider the fork will be swapped out?

2) Is the the Giant Revel + a Raidon fork the best value I can get, for a combined price of $739? (Let's keep used bikes out of this discussion).

Thanks!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

You're on the correct path. 
Riding some of those is your next step. I like Trek geo, but ride several to help you choose because the drives aren't really that much different when compared to fit. Test ride in and out of ditches and on the grass.
The Marin Bobcat on ebay is Alivio/Deore 9 speed. With a Deore m615 brake upgrade for 96.23(Ribble/Jenson price match when back in stock) you are at the same price with the best value for your buck. Two seasons before you look for a carbon ht for compliance like the Trek SF 9.6. Or maybe sooner because you aren't really a beginner.


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## rolfeskj (Apr 19, 2014)

reign_ said:


> Hi there.
> 
> I've currently got a 2004 (I'm fairly sure that's the correct year) Trek 4500, and have been considering an upgrade soon.
> 
> ...


I am getting the Revel 29er or the Felt Nine 80 in the next few days myself. They had the Felt in stock but the Giant May be hard to find. The local bike store will also sell either bike to me for $550. From the specks the Felt seems a little better but I like the Giant name better. I know very little about Felt but the bike did ride well.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

The geometry's going to vary. Honestly, I think swapping forks will make enough of a difference that the "before" geometry may not tell you much.

How do you feel about the fit of your Trek?


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> You're on the correct path.
> Riding some of those is your next step. I like Trek geo, but ride several to help you choose because the drives aren't really that much different when compared to fit. Test ride in and out of ditches and on the grass.
> The Marin Bobcat on ebay is Alivio/Deore 9 speed. With a Deore m615 brake upgrade for 96.23(Ribble/Jenson price match when back in stock) you are at the same price with the best value for your buck. Two seasons before you look for a carbon ht for compliance like the Trek SF 9.6. Or maybe sooner because you aren't really a beginner.


Yeah I think I will end up riding all of the ones that I can anyways, like you're saying. That's a good idea.

My favorite LBS carries Trek/Specialized and even though the components aren't as good, I think I should still check them out for comparison's sake.

In the back of my mind I just feel like the Hardrock frame is probably the best of the whole lot though. Whether this is true or not, I'm not sure. One of my coworkers has a friend who works at Specialized and he really has a lot of confidence that their extensive research has resulted in some of the best frames out there.



rolfeskj said:


> I am getting the Revel 29er or the Felt Nine 80 in the next few days myself. They had the Felt in stock but the Giant May be hard to find. The local bike store will also sell either bike to me for $550. From the specks the Felt seems a little better but I like the Giant name better. I know very little about Felt but the bike did ride well.


I have a good handful of shops in my area, so finding either should be fine.

I like the looks of the Felt better than the Giant, but I'm the same way in that I think higher of Giant than Felt just because I've know of them longer.



AndrwSwitch said:


> The geometry's going to vary. Honestly, I think swapping forks will make enough of a difference that the "before" geometry may not tell you much.
> 
> How do you feel about the fit of your Trek?


Very true. Makes the process even more confusing haha.

I'm not sure how I feel about my Trek because it's really the only mountain bike I've ridden in the last 10 or so years that I've had it.

It doesn't really feel like anything is 'wrong' fit-wise, but then again if there was, I might not even know it since I haven't tried anything else.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Yeah, people can get used to some pretty unpleasant stuff.

I guess the only other route I can propose is to take your $600-$800 and put it in a secondhand bike with higher-end components all-around and a nice fork already present. That depends a bit on how you feel about "new bike smell" and how confident you are in being able to give the bike an adequate going-over yourself. Every secondhand bike a friend of mine bought made me kick myself for a while, before I got my current bike.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Best bet at this point now that you've got a decent idea of what's available in your price range is probably to go test ride a handful of bikes. If you've got a LBS that you already like, give them a shot at selling you. Throwing a leg over a few different bikes with the help of a knowledgable salesperson, as well as maybe trying a couple different frame sizes (and if at all possible, wheel sizes), can help narrow things down a lot - sometimes certain bikes just feel 'righter' than others. Sometimes one just catches your eye. Test a few and buy that one that gets you most fired up to ride. Shops will usually toss in a discount on gear and a tune up or two. If you live somewhere with an active MTB community, sometimes joining the local advocacy/trails group will get you a discount at shops. Not to mention supporting more and better trails for you to ride (we'd be nowhere without trails).

You really can't go all that far wrong with any of the big brands; you can nitpick components and such, but the overall performance differences between bikes at this price range is a fairly level playing field. And components are temporary anyway - if you get into it, you can always upgrade as you wear stuff out or just find you want to change something up. All part of the game. 

FWIW, I personally have had pretty good experiences with Specialized bikes. I have/had 7 or 8 or them. I found they worked well for me, and IME they backed up their products above and beyond my expectations. And I'm a huge fan of buying used if the right deal presents itself. There are some upsides to buying new from a shop, but if you're at all handy mechanically, there are some decent scores to be had.

Where do you live and what kind of riding are you looking to do?


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

I'm wondering why you start with a budget of 600$ for the bike and then throw in another 200 for a fork. Why not just go with a 800$ budget.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

rangeriderdave said:


> I'm wondering why you start with a budget of 600$ for the bike and then throw in another 200 for a fork. Why not just go with a 800$ budget.


The name brand bikes like Specialized and Trek and Giant don't have a bike with a good air fork for less than 1200 or more.
This saves 400+ while getting a brand at a local shop.


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> FWIW, I personally have had pretty good experiences with Specialized bikes. I have/had 7 or 8 or them. I found they worked well for me, and IME they backed up their products above and beyond my expectations. And I'm a huge fan of buying used if the right deal presents itself. There are some upsides to buying new from a shop, but if you're at all handy mechanically, there are some decent scores to be had.
> 
> Where do you live and what kind of riding are you looking to do?


Yeah it's hard for me to dismiss Specialized even the entry level.

I live in Salinas, CA. Right next to Monterey, so I usually ride in Fort Ord, where some of the Sea Otter Classic stuff is held.


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

rangeriderdave said:


> I'm wondering why you start with a budget of 600$ for the bike and then throw in another 200 for a fork. Why not just go with a 800$ budget.


Because $800 bikes don't come with air forks, which is something I'm interested in.


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## Noya (Mar 21, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I guess the only other route I can propose is to take your $600-$800 and put it in a secondhand bike with higher-end components all-around and a nice fork already present. That depends a bit on how you feel about "new bike smell" and how confident you are in being able to give the bike an adequate going-over yourself. Every secondhand bike a friend of mine bought made me kick myself for a while, before I got my current bike.


I'll say, after looking at new bikes with a friend the last few weeks I don't think I could buy new unless it was a great closeout deal.

Gary Fisher Paragon 29 @ $800 on my local CL (SRAM x9, Fox, Juicy)

Bikepedia had it at $1869.99 new.

Blue book has it at $704 in excellent condition.


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## tajar66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Don't be afraid to ask for money off the new bike purchase. I was given 10% off by asking.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Just to muddy the waters, you could get something along these lines in your price range used...

2006 Jamis Dakar XC Expert

2003 Rocky Montain 26" ETS X 90


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

Hardtail mountain bike, carbon fiber frame
I would go for this one if looking used. 
2013 Marin Bobcat Trail 29er 17" MTB Hardtail Bike Shimano 9S Hydraulic Disc New | eBay
I would go with the Marin if going new.


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

moefosho said:


> Hardtail mountain bike, carbon fiber frame
> I would go for this one if looking used.
> 2013 Marin Bobcat Trail 29er 17" MTB Hardtail Bike Shimano 9S Hydraulic Disc New | eBay
> I would go with the Marin if going new.


That's a pretty kller deal on the Bobcat if it ends up going for a decent price. I'll have to keep an eye on eBay. That one would be a bit too small for me though, being a 17'' frame and me being 6'2''.

I'm still not sure if I want hydraulic brakes though. I'm sort of worried about the possible maintenance issues of them. But I've also heard that they are pretty reliable, so that probably shouldn't be of much concern?


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

They have a 19" for 700 shipped.


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

I spent $640 2013 HardRock Sport 29er 19"
Rode is stock for one year.
Bought $300 X-Fusion Slide 29 on it's one year "B-Day"
(plus Headset, stem & Bar combo)

Hydro brakes are easy bro. Well mine are. THe HR Sport comes with Tektro HDC330 Hydros.
Just this weekend was my FIRST EVER maintenence on my brakes. 550miles and still original pads.
I bought a $10 bleed kit (seringe, oil & tubes) and bleed both brakes in less than 20min = easy. (U-tube has How-To videos)
My brake levers started to have more pull distance and after I bleed now my levers are "full" again and Hydro is so AWESOME = one finger braking!

TEST RIde and buy the one that feels the best...ALL parts can be replaced..but if it doesn't fit then the best parts in the world will not matter...


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

moefosho said:


> They have a 19" for 700 shipped.


Yeah I saw that a little bit after I replied. There's also a 20.5 on eBay too. Can't remember if it was the same seller.

I wonder why the eBay ones have Suntour's nice air fork, but the new Bobcats have a coil fork? Seems strange to downgrade a model like that.


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## ecooke21 (Aug 18, 2007)

id save up a little more and buy used..

I just bought a MINT (like new) 2011 stump jumper 29er FSR comp on craigslist for $1100


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## Wi_Gus (Apr 30, 2014)

Giant's new 27.5" bikes seem to be a pretty good deal right now


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

reign_ said:


> Yeah I saw that a little bit after I replied. There's also a 20.5 on eBay too. Can't remember if it was the same seller.
> 
> I wonder why the eBay ones have Suntour's nice air fork, but the new Bobcats have a coil fork? Seems strange to downgrade a model like that.


Companies change their spec all the time from year to year depending on the parts deals they can get from manf.


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

Burt4x4 said:


> View attachment 889577
> 
> 
> I spent $640 2013 HardRock Sport 29er 19"
> ...


That's good to hear about the brakes. I really just don't know a ton about how they work and have been so used to being able to mess with/adjust mechanical ones for so long that it just seems like something I wasn't sure if I really needed.

And yeah you're right about not really worrying about parts like derailleurs and stuff. I really should just be focusing on the best frame and fit for now.

Since you sort of did what I'm thinking of doing (entry level bike and added an air fork), how has the bike been for you? Was the air fork a really good upgrade?

And what do you think is the weakest part of your bike right now if you had to choose something?

Thanks.



ecooke21 said:


> id save up a little more and buy used..
> 
> I just bought a MINT (like new) 2011 stump jumper 29er FSR comp on craigslist for $1100


I wish I could but I don't want to spend that much right now. Bikes are a slippery slope like that.

Right now I'm looking to spend $750ish and that's what I'm comfortable with. There's always the thought that a couple hundred could get you a lot more bike. For me I just have to cap what I'm wanting to spend and go from there or I'll just keep inching up.



moefosho said:


> Companies change their spec all the time from year to year depending on the parts deals they can get from manf.


Yeah it's just seems crazy that the bike would go from an air fork to a so-so coil fork. That seems like a pretty significant downgrade.


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

OH yeah! I swapped out the pogo fork for Xfusion and RaceFace Turbine Stem and 725mm wider bar.. Man I LOVE IT!! I'm so much faster now (in my head I'm sure LOL)!! I also am in better shape than my fat beerbelly days one year ago.
I am inlove with the frame/feel I have. My confedence on the trail is going UP on every ride. I can jump hop skip flip..ok no flip hahahaa not on purpose anyway LOL
I do all the work on my bike = alot of satifaction as I LOVE to TINKER.

Hmm my current weakspot may be my front derailleur..I have to "workit" and sometimes I get chain suck going down to the small ring..back casette & derailleur does it's job well but is has an ever slight wobble to it (SunRace Casette).
Wheels are also "average" and my riding improvements are on a positive trend upwards so my bike will 'need' the same upward tren when I buy new parts.
My next two upgrades will be Drive train, maybe 3x10 w/bash so 2x10 & wheels/hubs (may just start with rear then front?)

Every Winter I will build up one section then RIDE!!
I may even learn how to lace up my own wheels and go that route (save some bucks and get killer parts)

I love my Xfusion Slide, it weighs 1/2 of what my stock XCT pogo fork did and it is performing flawless..everytime I check the sag to see if It's tiem to add air..nope still good!! 
I am a rookie/noob so this is my first REAL MTB but I LOVE THIS SPORT!!! and MY BIKE!!! 
RIDE!


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I stuck an old Manitou R7 on the front of my Hardrock within a couple months of buying it. The stock fork had seized, rebuilding it did no good, and it didn't occur to me to try to warranty it.

It changed the character of the bike a ton. I thought my skills had degraded a lot in the couple-years layoff before I bought that bike, but it tracked much, much better with the Manitou. Those aren't even noted as being particularly stiff.

On a tangent, Burt, if you want to build your own wheels for a project, do it. I have, and it's kind of cool to know I'm riding wheels I built myself. It's actually very hard to save money this way, though - I have when I've been reusing parts, but when I price out loose hubs, rims and spokes, it always comes out more expensive than just buying a built wheel.


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Sometimes the experiance is WAY BETTER than saving money! I hate money! I LOVE BIKE stuff! Gladly exchange all the money in my account for bike stuff..My wife will kill me and I'll be dead but MAN THAT WAS FUN!! LOL

Thanks AndrwSwitch! A little push is all one needs in life


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## Semitone (Dec 25, 2013)

I think the Marin Bobcat Trail closeouts on eBay are a great deal. I bought one about six months ago to try out to see if I would like a 29er. It was a very nice bike for the money. ( I've been a Marin fan for a while, got my first in the mid-90's) I eventually sold it and got a great deal on a Nail Trail 29er because the 29 was working for me. I never had a complaint with the stock Tektro brakes. 


( By the way, the 2014 Bobcat Trail model does come with an air fork but it is an XCR Air not the Raidon Air. Given they are different model years, I am not sure of the quality differences of the forks.)


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## Everhart (Apr 30, 2014)

I bought a Diamondback Overdrive Sport a few months ago in your price range, I'm upgrading to the radions, but overall im happy with the bike. You may want to add it to your list..


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

Semitone said:


> I think the Marin Bobcat Trail closeouts on eBay are a great deal. I bought one about six months ago to try out to see if I would like a 29er. It was a very nice bike for the money. ( I've been a Marin fan for a while, got my first in the mid-90's) I eventually sold it and got a great deal on a Nail Trail 29er because the 29 was working for me. I never had a complaint with the stock Tektro brakes.
> 
> ( By the way, the 2014 Bobcat Trail model does come with an air fork but it is an XCR Air not the Raidon Air. Given they are different model years, I am not sure of the quality differences of the forks.)


Yeah I'm really interested in the Bobcat Trail.

I just hope they don't all sell out soon. Hopefully they are there in a month or two when I'm planning to buy...



Everhart said:


> I bought a Diamondback Overdrive Sport a few months ago in your price range, I'm upgrading to the radions, but overall im happy with the bike. You may want to add it to your list..


Huh I'll take a look. Looks like it's got great components for the price.


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## Semitone (Dec 25, 2013)

It's a little strange to me how many of these Marin bikes they seem to have. I think they have been selling them on eBay since last October. Seems to be no end to the supply. If I remember correctly, in December they told me they had 16 of the 16" XM7's. That seems like a lot for just one model and one size. I guess I would have expected this from a company that was going out of business but I thought Marin was recently acquired by some new group that was going to invest in it and try to get better marketing and distribution. eBay seems like a strange distribution model to me.


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

Thanks for all the help so far guys. I really appreciate it.

Quick question. What's the story on Gravity bikes from Bikesdirect?

I was looking them over and this one (27.5'') seems like a pretty great value for the money Save up to 60% off new 650b and 27.5 Mountain Bikes - MTB - Gravity 29 SS Single Speed new 650b and 27.5 Mountain Bikes

Plus since there's no tax or shipping, that makes it even more affordable.

As of right now, I'm really thinking of getting that bike unless there is a good reason not to quality-wise or something.

Seems like a great deal for $549 flat. And with a Raidon fork I'd be set for a long time I'd think.


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

WHat kind of riding are you planning?

Are you going to do alot of slow up hill climbing?
11-32 out back..if you are into hills and granny gear..I have a 11-34 and I use my 34 all the time..thinking I may want 36 or 40 :-O

I am still affraid for you..if you can't test ride..well test ride is realllllly it for me. I rode several bikes and I bought the one that felt the best under me in my $$ range.
But it may be fine too?? Rolll the dice LOL

Another spec I knowticed is it has the smaller dia seat tube...duno if that matters?


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Oh and I don't know HOW they get value of $1385 ?? Not from the drivetrain..maybe it's the wheels??


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

reign_ said:


> Thanks for all the help so far guys. I really appreciate it.
> 
> Quick question. What's the story on Gravity bikes from Bikesdirect?
> 
> ...


Pretty much everything on that bike is lower end stuff. The deore RD is the only thing that I wouldnt want to upgrade if i was doing any extended trail use.

They charge $549 and that is what it is worth. At $500 i would look used or last model year closeout.


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

Burt4x4 said:


> WHat kind of riding are you planning?
> 
> Are you going to do alot of slow up hill climbing?
> 11-32 out back..if you are into hills and granny gear..I have a 11-34 and I use my 34 all the time..thinking I may want 36 or 40 :-O
> ...


Yeah I do a decent amount of climbing. Not a ton but often enough I would say.

Yeah I know I'm still not sure if I want to buy a bike that I've never been on, but for the price it seems pretty good.



moefosho said:


> Pretty much everything on that bike is lower end stuff. The deore RD is the only thing that I wouldnt want to upgrade if i was doing any extended trail use.
> 
> They charge $549 and that is what it is worth. At $500 i would look used or last model year closeout.


I know it's lower end, but it's better than most of the stuff at the level right?

Alivio and Deore are better than the Tourney/Atlas/Acera stuff that comes on the big name bikes from $500-700 though right?

Man trying to buy a bike is so confusing. Especially since I over-research stuff like this lol.

The Gravity bike seems like a killer deal, but I can't test it out first, and I have to put it together...so that makes me just think w/e I'll just buy a Hardrock at my local shop for like $700 and call it a day. But then I think, if I'm gonna spend $700, then I should just buy that Marin Bobcat Trail online for $697 since it comes with the air fork I want already...but then we are back at the not being able to test it/having to assemble it thing lol.

And then used throws a wrench in everything since it's so variable haha.

On that note- theres a 2008 Giant Trance X2 for sale in my area for $700 obo...Should I look into that? 26'' FS bike and it's the right frame size...


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

I hear ya!
WHen I was shopping I gave up with the "online" search..I needed to touch it, ride it..feeeel it ya know!

Used....well my issue there was I wanted to get BACK into MTBing after 15yr not riding at all so the only way to buy and ride was get a new "Plug n Play" bike (or Pay & Play) I didn't know how to accuratly shop for used bikes anyway so?..just wanted to RIDE..not Tinker and learn the "new" functions of a modern MTB...


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

reign_ said:


> On that note- theres a 2008 Giant Trance X2 for sale in my area for $700 obo...Should I look into that? 26'' FS bike and it's the right frame size...


Can you post a link?

As far as new bikes in your price range, things aren't going to really vary all that much performance-wise. Like Burt said, pick one and start riding. Don't get too hung up trying to weight all the component variations and all that crap. You'll find if you get into riding that all parts, right down to the frame, are only temporary.


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> Can you post a link?
> 
> As far as new bikes in your price range, things aren't going to really vary all that much performance-wise. Like Burt said, pick one and start riding. Don't get too hung up trying to weight all the component variations and all that crap. You'll find if you get into riding that all parts, right down to the frame, are only temporary.


Giant Trance X2 Large For Sale

Seems like a good deal but I wouldnt have any idea what I'm looking for as far as condition of the bike.

And I understand what you're saying about them being similar. I'm just someone who over researches all of my bigger purchases Lol. I like getting the most for my money.

I think just moving to a 29" bike will make more of a noticeable difference than any of the components.


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## Noya (Mar 21, 2010)

reign_ said:


> Alivio and Deore are better than the Tourney/Atlas/Acera stuff that comes on the big name bikes from $500-700 though right?
> 
> Man trying to buy a bike is so confusing. Especially since I over-research stuff like this lol.
> 
> ...


Yes, Alivio and Deore is better than the even cheaper stuff. My cheapo Forge has them and I wouldn't recommend anything lower.

My advice, stop researching every bike someone mentions and think you're going to miss a deal...because the *best deal will be a used bike*.

Here's my story. Biked a bit back in the early 2000's on a Giant Iguana (disc/pogo fork). Had an unrelated shoulder injury and sold the bike. Decided to start biking again (2010) but didn't want to spend much as I wasn't sure the shoulder would handle it long-term.

Browsed here and read about the cheap Forge Sawback. Decided I would wait until it was on sale again. I went to a few local shops and was shocked at how the prices had risen since I quit riding.

I started looking at craigslist. Came across a 2008 Giant XTC 2 w/BB7, Reba Race w/shock pump, Kenda Nevagal, X7 derailleur, good stuff for $350. Guy had moved from a Mt. biking area of my state and said he didn't ride locally as you had to drive 40min for a good ride, so didn't need the bike anymore. I met the guy to check it out/ ride it and was shocked because the QR seat clamp was gone. He said they're like $5 at the LBS. So the seat was low and wiggly as I rode it through a store parking lot and the small field adjacent. I knew it the derailleurs could use a tune, but the brakes felt strong and the fork felt great off road. I wussed out and didn't buy it. Called him back 1.5 days later and it was sold...and I get that sad feeling because it was a great deal I should have took.

Another one I didn't jump at, a 2009 Gary Fish Tassahara (or something), mint with a Solo Air and hydro brakes. $500. Guy upgraded to full-suspension. Didn't jump at it because I was lazy and didn't feel like driving 30-40 miles to meet the guy that day....lmao at the choices I made.

Instead I spent $330 for a Forge that I had to put together and has a pogo fork I still haven't replaced.

Do you ride/have a bike now?

It's not too difficult to tell if a bike has shifting/braking problems, or if the wheels aren't true or the frame has a cracked weld. In the end, if you find what appears to be a solid used bike and you're not sure, have the seller meet you at a LBS and have them take 10min and give it a once over for $20.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Personally, I would choose that Giant in a heartbeat over the Bobcat or any similar entry level bike, particularly if you've got any sort of comfort level working on mechanical stuff. 

Noya's suggestion of having a shop give it a look-over is also a good one.


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## Semitone (Dec 25, 2013)

My 2 cents.

Before you jump on anything I think you need to decide whether you want a 29er or a 26. Hardtail of FS? Sounds like you aren't really sure. Typically deals come and go. Probably better you are a little more sure you know what you want before you part with your money. YMMV

(Edit: Or maybe you'll be like me and just be happy with whatever you get as long you are out there riding.)


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

IME, the differences between bikes aren't as important as we all want them to be. All XC and Trail bikes do pretty much the same thing, regardless of wheel size. It just needs to go, stop, shift and fit.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

you have an entry $500 level bike and you're gonna buy another one? Not enough reason to get a whole other bike. Just ride what you have imho.

Rim brakes are vastly underrated. They don't look as cool as disc, but they are lighter and work just fine when adjusted properly.

Raidon at $189? Get the suntour epicon at $200 shipped instead. It's a whole tier better and cost $10 more. 

Drive train upgrades = mostly about weight savings. How well it shifts, make sure it's adjusted right. Somtimes, really low tier stuff will outright break eg cranks; in those cases the bike will let you know what you need to upgrade.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

This guy has a perfectly good time on a $50 bike. Riding a $50 bike (impressions of owning a budget steel MTB again after nearly 20 years - long, imgur album in comments) : MTB

sometimes riding the bike that provides more challenge = more fun then a bike that makes everything easy. Lots people of ride cross bikes for the added difficulty.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'll tell u from my experience. Bike fit is number one thing, but fit can be adjusted to a point. Knowing frame size that fits you is the main thing. Actual bike size, effective top tube and stand over. As long as you can stand over the top tube without the berries touching it, your good there. Seat height can be adjusted, bars and stem can be changed to lengths you feel more comfortable on. All the big names have their specs on their websites. Test several bikes, couple sizes each. Compare fit of each as to which you like best. Then compare actual measurements of the bikes/sizes you like best. If bike handling becomes noticable from one bike to another then wheelbase, chainstay length and head tube angle come into play but on entry levels you really won't notice that over if the bike fits or not.

Now you have a reference point to buy a bike of any brand. 

Then go for components. Alivio/deore or sram x5 and up. Dont go below those or you'll be pissed when you ride something better. I upgraded to SLX and its a huge difference. My commuter has acera and it annoys me at least one ride a week. Its ok brand new but once it gets miles on it your always messing with it so it shifts properly.

If your planning on upgrades over time its fun if you like to tinker but not cost effective overall. I've been doing the buy entry level and upgrading slowly. The bike I could have vs what I spent I won't admit to, but I've learned alot. Very confident on working on all aspects of my bike as well.

So make sure you plan accordingly. Dont buy entry then upgrade if your not big on doing all the work yourself and have things to do it. Thinking you can and truely having the mechanical ability to do it are differently things. And adding the cost of paying a shop you'll have been able to buy $3k bike but have a $1500 bike.

As for bikes, there are tons. If your planning on upgrading the whole bike over time then watch each brand. Many have the same frame used from a $550 to a $1200 versions, so you can go toward the bottom. Trek does this, the lowest level xcal 4 (i think) up to the actual original current XCal spec.

Everyone can refer bikes, but o ly you can decide what will make you happy. My treks make me happy and fit me perfect. Go pick yours and have a blast on the trails.

Sent from my Nokia Stupidphone using Tapatalk


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## AliceInPlunderland (Apr 21, 2014)

I researched and scoured classifieds forever looking for quality used, but ended up going with the Marin Bobcat Trail from Random Bike Parts/Crosslake. Everyone is different, but if you are in the noob forum then one thing to consider is your comfort level with used for safety reasons. I just don't have the experience to judge whether a pre-owned rig might have any less visible problems that could be a hazard or expensive fix. Also hopefully you already have a relationship with the LBS because not all are equal as we all know. 

I don't know if this helps, but I decided on the Bobcat 29er as a beginner because it had the entry-level specs I wanted and I think it is a good value, particularly when compared to similarly priced brands like Specialized. I read several folks on here recommended to buy the best that could be afforded because they regretted their decisions to go too entry-level on parts very quickly. I wanted an air fork and hydro brakes and the Bobcat had both. I contacted Marin before I purchased and the warranty is intact even through online purchases, but the bike must be assembled by a certified mechanic. Other companies like GT did not offer this, so another thing to consider if you opt to buy new and have limited LBS options like did. 

One last thing about the Marins- if you are looking for a deal on ebay, don't wait. I was going to buy the 29er Bolinas Ridge 17" hydro as a gift and it looks like they sold out already. 

Good luck!


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

Last question, I promise 

I've basically narrowed it down to 2 bikes. (Used bikes are still in the running sort of, but the bikes that seem good for my price range are at least a ~2 hr drive away, so that messes with the price due to gas. So atm I'm just looking at these two).

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the Marin since the deal is so good, but I just wanted to run this past you guys before I pull the trigger.

So here are the 3 I've narrowed it down to. (I decided that I'd like hydraulic brakes after all since it seems like the mechs that come on cheaper bikes aren't all that great).

*Marin Bobcat Trail 29er*









$673 + ~$70 for assembly (to retain warranty from Marin) = ~*$750* total (not sure if there will be tax on it).

I'm of course leaning towards this one because the components are good, and it comes with the air fork already, and the price is right.

*Airborne Guardian 2.0*










$722 including tax/shipping.
Sell Rockshox XC28 for ~$120 (thats what they seem to sell for) on ebay and buy a Raidon/Epicon/Recon Silver for around $220
*~$820 all said and done w/ air fork*

Basically, is the extra $70 worth it for the Airborne if I decide to go new not used? (if there is tax on the Marin, the price will basically be the same) I decided that I'm totally okay with buying one online due to those 2 bikes being such great values for a new bike. I know which size I would get on the Marin, and will call Airborne about sizing if I go that route.

I'm not sure how the components stack up between the two, but I assume they are both similar level.

Guardian has Sram X4 drivetrain and Tektro Auriga Comp brakes.

Bobcat Trail has Shimano Alivio drivetrain w/ Deore Shadow R-Derailleur and Tektro Draco 2 brakes.

Other than that I don't know enough to compare the rest of the parts.

Any help on deciding between those two would be rad! I know both are probably great options, but I always like to make sure I'm getting the best bang for the buck.


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## Semitone (Dec 25, 2013)

Well, as I mentioned before, I had that model Bobcat a few months ago. I thought it was a very nice bike for the money ( and even a bit more) I like the Tektro Draco 2 brakes and the fork seemed better than found on bikes <$1k. The frame seemed very stiff, which is what I like. By comparison, my wife's 2014 Kona Cindercone frame seems squishy. I weigh 190lbs and I'm just waiting for her Cindercone to snap in half ;0.

If you are mechanically inclined or have the time, I believe( very sure) the frame warranty is still valid on the Marin even if you assemble it yourself. Personally, i would guess that SR would still warranty the fork and the other components will die from use rather than self destruct. i.e, I guess I only really cared about the frame warranty. The rest just gets beaten to death from riding. I also believe the warranty technically says the bike has to be assembled by a authorized Marin dealer, not just a bike shop. Finally, warranties are always a bit squirrelly to try to get enforced years down the road. Some companies will throw a bunch of hurdles in your way, others will let a 1 year warranty slide into 1 1/2 to 2 years if it's obvious the part just should not have broken. Given the hammering an MTB might take, I would expect warranty claims to be a hassle. YMMV.

As the ad says on-line, the bike is pretty much 90% assembled. I can assemble one in less than 20 mins. The greater time is bleeding the brakes ( if necessary) and tuning the derailleur. Maybe a rim is out of true. I've bought a number of bikes on-line and more often than not, they are set up pretty well right out of the box. Wheels are true, brakes don't need bleeding.

In any event, Good Luck and Enjoy!


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## Semitone (Dec 25, 2013)

One final thing: The Bobcats seem to go on auction pretty regularly so if you are patient and lucky, you might get one $100 -+ than the "Buy" price.


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## reign_ (Apr 29, 2014)

Semitone said:


> One final thing: The Bobcats seem to go on auction pretty regularly so if you are patient and lucky, you might get one $100 -+ than the "Buy" price.


Just did that and won it at the base price of $593!

So after shipping I got the bike for $640 out the door. Only saved like $34 off the buy price but I'm still stoked.

It's a whole lot of bike for $640.

Now the wait for it to arrive begins haha.


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## Semitone (Dec 25, 2013)

They ship fast. I've bought four bikes from those guys and they all arrived, undamaged and no issues, in less than a week.


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