# OK - so is it time for a better helmet design for All Mountain?



## ChamMTB (Feb 23, 2005)

So guys, 

Good new board - about right for most of us who like to do it all and always have done. 

But, things have moved on - bikes have developed to the point where my current XC bike is faster than my old Downhill bike of 4 years ago.   

Body armour is starting to be the norm on even a Sunday ride. 

Speeds have increased dramatically, and perhaps so too have the injuries. 

Don't we need to find a better AM helmet then? I can't ride all day in a Troy Lee D2, but I certainly don't want to ride as fast as I do now DH over rocks etc in a skinny-roadie Giro E2 either.

Giro stopped making the Switchblade, Met's Parachute isn't great (on me at least) and is only Specialized (deviant) trying to make a decent AM helmen then? (BTW - that's too hot for all day use as well). My last lid (a Giro Zen) has no more coverage than my old E2, but is hotter and still won't protect my face/side of my head at all.

In my opinion, we need to start to show some demand for a new lid.

What are everyone else's thoughts? What are you all wearing......


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

I'd like to see a helmet that is pretty much like an XC helmet, but with some minimalist side and face coverage. I'm thinking a single skinny bar, down around chin level (sorry water bottle users). Picture one of those old fashioned footbal helmets with a single face bar, or a modern slalom ski helmet.


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*I've been waiting for the same thing....*

On top of the lack of that style/design of a helmet, I have a huge noggin! I find that not much fits me. My old helmet is a Bell Rubicon. More of an oval shape is what I need. Bell tells me that only their X-Ray is similar in shape to my Rubicon.

Anyway. Pro-Tec makes a skate style cut-away design with a nice, large visor. Still, would be too hot for anything but winter for trail riding. Plus, not large enough for me.

Giro had a step in the right direction with the Xen. (again, no fit for me w/out permanant indents in my forehead)

I got a Specialized Instinct helmet from my wife for Christmas. Again, a step in the right direction, and again, for me, not a good fit.

THINGS NEEDED: lower coverage along the temple/ear/base of the skull
Good venting.
A FUNCTIONAL visor. Not just one there for fashion. Large. That can not only block the sun, but heavier rain when the head is tilted down while trailriding. And, most importantly for me at least, it functions to deflect branches and green briars while ripping singletrack here in Southeastern PA.

Specialized Instinct (I like it best) and Giro Xen are definitely a step in the right direction for what I do. 
Now...if I could just get something that fits me!!!!!!!!!


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

*After having started a second thread about helmets,*

I've decided to pop over here.

I've been watching for the new TLD helmet that is just like those old 70s motorcycle helmets. Have you seen it? It has full protection for the top and sides, but it doesn't have a face guard. Peaty was wearing one in the last issue of MBA, so Troy Lee is obviously starting to make some.

As for now, I just wear my Bell Aquilla. It's completely XC and scares the sh$t out of me on some downhills. But it is light and does have decent airflow.

I think that AM has sort of thrown helmet companies for a loop. Is it too much to want helmet that is XC light and DH tough?


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*Place this post over on the mfr. forums? Specialized? And...*

Forward the link to this thread to Bell/Giro


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

*Depends on the type of riding I'm doing on my bike...*

But if I go on a more XC oriented ride in the heat, I take the Pneumo. If messing around on rocks, I take the 661 Dirt Lid ($20).


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

I always tough the Switchblade was to be a hit... I was wrong.

But it's more like the helmet I'd love to ride with.

Low back head protection is a good thing (you neveer know how you're gonna land or what is gonna land over you)... which had another disappeared one, the Giro Semi-MX, another helmet I'd love to ride with.

The new Troy Lee looks cool... but I don't see its point clearly. I mean, it looks like a MX helmet from the 70's... ever wondered why all MX helmets are full face??

I'd like something that would avoid me to go to the dental surgeon and take the branches off my face (I haven't been able to avoid that thing of closing my eyes when hitting a branch and this costs me some speed in tight singletrack, not mishaps fortunately).

Anyone knows something alike?


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## SpecialK (Feb 23, 2005)

*Agreed*

I agree with the need for a lighter all-mountain style full face helmet. I have Giro Switchblade and love it but its only a matter of time before it falls apart and there is no replacement like it. Arrr!!!

I got myself a Specialized Deviant helmet over the winter and its a great helmet for DH, FR and most all mountian as it has a lot of vents and its really light (for a full face). However, it is still hot as a Mother F#$%er when its above 65 degrees out.

Sadly, a nasty ear injury has left me wearing a full face helmet for the rest riding life so I don't have much of a choice. But it would be nice to see something with a little more protection that doesn't feel like you have your head in an oven...

SpK


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## BanzaiRider (Jan 15, 2004)

I have a Switchblade but I'm almost more afraid with it then with a regular helmet since I saw the different accidents that happened with it (the mouth guard breaks and cuts the persons face!). 

So 99% of the time I wear my Switchblade without the mouth guard, essentially becomes a regular XC helmet.

I'm waiting for a new design, same idea as the Switchblade. Basically there is one like that made in Italy (don't remember the name) but the company refuses to sell it in North America because of our laws and possible court problems. The don't want to be bankrupt by lawyer and insurance fees I guess. Too bad because it looks really good and the mouth guard seems like it would not be like a blade cutting your face if it breaks.

I guess we'll have to wait, the more all moutain bikes gain popularity, the faster we should get something.


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## SpecialK (Feb 23, 2005)

*The Switchblade saved my teeth*

If you hit hard enough so that the mouthguard on the Switchblade hits your face, just imagine what your face would look like without wearing it!! My Switchblade saved my teeth on two occations thus far. One of them was just drop gone bad and the other was on a nasty downhill that got out of control. I slide and plowed some earth with my chin. I got a little cut on my chin but without the full face I would have been picking my teeth out of the dirt rather than the dirt out of my teeth.

Besides, I ain't that pretty to begin with so I don't want to make things worse... Long live full face protection.


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## Valhalla (Mar 30, 2004)

I am a big fan of the Xen. I think it is apretty good compromise in vents and back o' the head coverage.


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## ChamMTB (Feb 23, 2005)

Not surprised there are other people who feel the same - but a lot of people don't seem that fussed (yet?) which to me is a surprise at least.

We need a full face, with vents. Not like a DH helmet, more like a Switchblade done well. Modelled on the Zen, with a frontal section and a little more drop to temple sides and rear. This isn't hard to imagine (or one would imagine, to make).

I would guess that if someone came out with a better version of the Switchblade today, it would sell in the hundreds of thousands worldwide........I can't see why people are not developing these as yet......a bit behind the curve one would think when looking at the way bike design is heading.....

p.s. the Casco is available here in Europe, but the design is less good in real life than it looks on the web-piccies. The fit is awful, and that's half the problem.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

I don't know what all the fuss is about. This is all I have ever used and have yet to come away from a ride with so much as a scratch.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

I also wish Giro brought back an improved Switchblade.

Ant


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## bike_freak (Dec 24, 2003)

Me too! Hopefully Giro/bell are seeing this thread and will take action


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

I just sent them an e-mail with a link to this discussion... they may hear, they may ignore my mail.

But thruth is, now that more people is still riding hard uphill, while blasting the dh's, there's a big market now. Maybe that was not the case a few years ago, when a XC bike of 4" was still long travel (and 5" was tought to be overkill!!)


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

Personally, I would like the Specialized Deviant, but I don't know how hot it would be. I think that's the lightest FF helmet out there, but maybe I'm wrong.

Also, I'm big headed, so helmet finding is not easy 4 me


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## Tarekith (Mar 9, 2005)

Another Xen vote here.


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## BanzaiRider (Jan 15, 2004)

HA, someone in the other thread has posted it. The one I was talking about is the Met Parachute. That's what we need in a Giro version for North America...

http://www.met-helmets.com/ProdottiDet.jsp?idrub=293&idcat=13
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=186295


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

That Met helmet looks sorta goofy, and I kind of doubt that the face guard would do a whole lot, but then again it's always better than nothing. I really liked the Switchblade and wish I'd bought one before they went out


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## SeagateU8 (Apr 18, 2006)

ChamMTB said:


> p.s. the Casco is available here in Europe, but the design is less good in real life than it looks on the web-piccies. The fit is awful, and that's half the problem.












It sure is one fine looking helmet

if you squint real hard


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## Techfreak (Feb 17, 2005)

There is definitely a need for this kind of thing. Coming from the Full Face side of things, the Pryme AL minus a bit of the cheek pading looks like a good option.

The switchblade was a good (actuall GREAT) idea but not well executed. You can't get the Met Parachute in the States. The Deviant might come closest (along with the Pryme). In short, one or all of the compnaies really need to do this soon.


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## canadian-clydesdale (Oct 13, 2004)

A bike shop lackey told me Giro droped the switchblade because people were starting to use them inappropriately, like when you should be wearing a real deal full face for say down hilling/extreme freeride. I think the big problem with helmets is that there is the liability factor of the manufacturer. You make a nice light helmet with a full face and some yahoo breaks his noggin doing some Benderesque drop wearing the thing cause it looks great and is nice and light, then in come the lawyers...


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## Techfreak (Feb 17, 2005)

canadian-clydesdale said:


> A bike shop lackey told me Giro droped the switchblade because people were starting to use them inappropriately, like when you should be wearing a real deal full face for say down hilling/extreme freeride. I think the big problem with helmets is that there is the liability factor of the manufacturer. You make a nice light helmet with a full face and some yahoo breaks his noggin doing some Benderesque drop wearing the thing cause it looks great and is nice and light, then in come the lawyers...


Exactly. So the challenge is to come up with something up to DHish abuse with XCish weight.


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## SpecialK (Feb 23, 2005)

*All lies*

Believe it or not, your bike shop lacky is incorrect. Speaking with Giro (I know some people there) the reason the Switchblade disappeared was because of cost effectiveness. It was being made in Europe and was expensive to manufacture (hence the retail price of $180!). They restructured the company a couple of years ago and decided the helmet was not selling well enough at the retail price in order to keep it afloat. The other Giro full face helmets were cheaper to manufacture and were selling better. The elimination of the Switchblade was purely a business move.

That said, liability would definitely be a factor in bringing it back to life. Who knows, maybe there is one in the works from another manufacturer.

In terms of the Specialized Deviant helmet, I ride one of those almost exclusively now. Its a great freeride/trail helmet. Its light (for a full face and way lighter than the Pryme AL) and breathes very well (again, for a full face) but its still gets really toasty when the temperature is upwards of 70 F. The Deviant happens to fit me perfectly and feels more secure than any helmet I have ever worn. Definitely a confidence builder...

SpK


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

SpecialK said:


> but its still gets really toasty when the temperature is upwards of 70 F


Then for us the guys south the Rio Bravo, that's not the helmet to have... at least for Trail Riding.

Temps are usually above that. Good to know!


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## SpecialK (Feb 23, 2005)

*Hot heads*

Well, of the full face helmets I have tried, the Specialized Deviant is definitely the coolest (as in least hot). However, that is not saying much. On a hot day it still makes you sweat like no regular bike helmet would. Vents aside, there is still a face guard right in front of your mouth, holding the heat in. I guess that is the price for protection.

That said, the Deviant is way better than the Giro Mad Max or any of the Six Six One helmets I have tried. I rode with a Mad Max for a few days once in 85 F weather and got sick to my stomach. Arg.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

SpecialK said:


> Well, of the full face helmets I have tried, the Specialized Deviant is definitely the coolest (as in least hot). However, that is not saying much. On a hot day it still makes you sweat like no regular bike helmet would. Vents aside, there is still a face guard right in front of your mouth, holding the heat in. I guess that is the price for protection.
> 
> That said, the Deviant is way better than the Giro Mad Max or any of the Six Six One helmets I have tried. I rode with a Mad Max for a few days once in 85 F weather and got sick to my stomach. Arg.


Well... I'm no bashing on it. Some people may like it and that's fine. But we ride in 85's as an average and that's where a Switchblade like helmet would be welcome.

Maybe something like the Deviant but with no padding below the ears and more holes at the chin guards.


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## HENRI8 (Jul 30, 2005)

*what we need*

is a helmet designed similar to the switchblade but without the feature of taking the chin-gaurd apart. The ideal helmet should be as ventilated as the Switchblade or the Xen. If this is the case the added complexity, weight and cost of the removable chingaurd can be eliminated. The spcialized is the right way but didn't go all the way. Anyway, a chingaurd is a must-have (I am an MD seeing the shreded guys coming to the ER after faceplanting sans a chin-gaurd) and at this point no helmet satisfies our needs.


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## BanzaiRider (Jan 15, 2004)

Henri8 posted this one in the other thread. I think it looks like the perfect AM helmet. Giro, please build one of these for North America!


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## Wayndar (Jan 13, 2004)

great thread. I've been thinking the same thing. The switchblade was a great idea, and I'm riding a switchblade now, but if I actually hit it, I know it will crack. Can't someone make a switchblade with a vented ABS hardplastic helmet? Or second best is just a really well vented full-face helmet


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*And...I know that it's only cosmetic...but...*

Give me more matte, single color helmets. Like the European switchable model in the post above. Specialized and Giro got it right with the Instinct and Xen.....
I like the "stealth factor" and like not sticking out like a sore thumb when I'm in the woods.
I don't need to look like I'm riding into Paris on the last day of the Tour!


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

ChamMTB said:


> So guys,
> 
> Good new board - about right for most of us who like to do it all and always have done.
> 
> ...


I think the XC lids are just fine. I don't think you crash harder on an AM bike than on an xc. In fact, most of my worst (fastest, hardest) crashes have been on more xc sections. Personally, if I am going to be climbing all day, I don't want anything bulkier than what I've got.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

BanzaiRider said:


> Henri8 posted this one in the other thread. I think it looks like the perfect AM helmet. Giro, please build one of these for North America!


This glorious helm is not available in the states?


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## teamhart2 (Apr 5, 2006)

Hey, funny story, after having read this thread and thinking about it for a few days, went out yesterday, came off a little bridge that landed in a bit of a rock garden, wearing my Giro xc lid, hit the brakes a tad harder than i meant to and instead of smoothly running through the garden took it in my face and shoulder. Feeling lucky I didnt break the snoz and still have all my teeth, and thinking more seriously about this thread. wouldnt mind something like an AM helmet now


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## BanzaiRider (Jan 15, 2004)

teamhart2 said:


> Hey, funny story, after having read this thread and thinking about it for a few days, went out yesterday, came off a little bridge that landed in a bit of a rock garden, wearing my Giro xc lid, hit the brakes a tad harder than i meant to and instead of smoothly running through the garden took it in my face and shoulder. Feeling lucky I didnt break the snoz and still have all my teeth, and thinking more seriously about this thread. wouldnt mind something like an AM helmet now


My worst crash ever was on an asphalt bike path! I was messing around with my new fork, hit the front brake to see if I could use most of it's travel and zoom, I'm off flying over, land on asphalt part shoulder part helmet. My glasses were broken and I had a small cut close to the eye where the glasses broke. If my "flight" would have taken a slightly different trajectory I could have left my front teeth incrusted in the asphalt!!!  I felt like a total idiot but at the same time I was quite shocked by what was almost a total disaster to my bike career!


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## outdoornut (Aug 13, 2005)

*Full Face Protection*



teamhart2 said:


> Feeling lucky I didnt break the snoz and still have all my teeth, and thinking more seriously about this thread. wouldnt mind something like an AM helmet now


After a couple mishaps last year that finally damaged my xc lid, broke a pair of glasses and produced some nasty abrasions on the chin and cheek I decided to purchase a full face helmet this winter. After trying on several and checking out the vents I purchased a 661. I have used it a couple times and like it well. It temps here have only reached 76 degrees so far and it was quite comfortable. And if it gets a little hot, it is still better than a broken face. I still wear my xc lid on our local trails that I know don't have extremely technical sections however I am planning on wearing if on unfamiliar trails as well those that I know have those technical rocky or fast downhill sections. Like someone said above, the newer bikes make you want to go faster and try things we might never have thought we would be doing. Have fun, protect yourself, so you can keep having fun.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

*I have a Switchblade and a Parachute*

The Switchblade saved my face at least twice. Mine is currently cracked right down the middle and some of the lining has broken away from the chin guard. The wreck that did it in put me in the emergency room with broken wrist, separated shoulder, and concussion. Thankfully I had the Switchblade on or I'd be adding broken jaw and dental to that list. Since most insurance doesn't cover facial reconstruction, a lot of that cost would be out of pocket. The need for a full face XC lid is REAL. I rode for 20 years with "normal" helmets and always thought they were fine. I'm thankful everyday that I decided to start wearing a Switchblade when I did.

When my Switchblade died in service, I immediately tried to buy another and found Giro no longer made them. Eventually, I ended up buying a MET Parachute. For me this is a great helmet. It is much better vented than the Switchblade. The smaller chin guard lets more air through and less blowback into my face. Very nice for warm XC rides. I admit it looks like it will have less protection in a crash, but it's better than none. I wear it all the time. Chinguard in place.

You can pick up MET Parachutes on E-Bay from overseas. You can also call a shop in the United Kingdom and get one shipped. Not cheap solutions but way cheaper than not having one.

So anyway, here's another vote for a replacement for the Switchblade. It was before it's time and never got the appreciation it deserved. Come on Giro. It's not just about making money for you (you will), it's about saving lives. Seriously.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

BanzaiRider said:


> Henri8 posted this one in the other thread. I think it looks like the perfect AM helmet. Giro, please build one of these for North America!


Looks the same as SeagateU8's post [#14], only diff color


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## tald (Jun 28, 2004)

You don't crash much harder, but you crash MORE. Especially when playing and learning new techniques (its just a 3" drop - but I'm still learning how do do these...). Or going on a little more technical terrain. 
After 15 years of XC riding, 1 year on a 5spot has been the most fun ever, but also the crashiest. Including a nice ambulance ride with a suspected face & spine injury.
Basically, I came to my senses that a real fall in "aggressive trail" (or all mountain, or...) is not a question of if, but a question of when. Since then I use a full face plus protectors plus flat pedals for my riding. (and I'm no freerider. >10 years on clipless)
Like many here, for around 2 months I researched a proper full face that is cool enough for long rides with climbing. Ended up finding too many stories (or rumors) of breakage of met parachute/giro switchblade chin protectors in a way that actually endangered the rider, and ended up with a composite TLD D2 which I use for all my riding now, for lack of a better choice so far. Actually, this helmet amazed me with its coolness even in hot weather on climbing, but it is definately a "least worst" instead of what I want.
I believe that Specialized are on the right track with their deviant helmet (still need to try one). I can;t wait for more companies to follow suite.

Happy riding,and cheers on the new forum.


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## SuperNewb (Mar 6, 2004)

Reg "xc" lids work fine IMO. If you need more protection then its prob more like FR your doing or you crash too much in the latter case you maybe need to learn better "skill" so you crash less. 

With some ppl maybe its all those years taking the easier lines/routes and only now trying out those harder lines/routes is making them think twice and causing such issues to as what is needed for their new style of riding. 

I know when my friends started riding FS bikes after riding a hardtail for years they still pick and choose the same lines (smoothest usually) and only when riding behind me and trying the lines I pick they see a difference in handling and speed and such. Of course one can do it on a hardtail too but its more bumpy for them but still is possible.


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## DM-SC (Jan 12, 2004)

Dure to my having jaw surgery about 5 weeks ago, my doc told me he'd only clear me to ride IF I wore a FF helmet.

I now have a Pryme AL and though it is a LOT hotter than a "normal" style XC lid, it does work ok. 

I'll keep wearing the Pryme (Hey, like I have a choice!) until, hopefully, somebody starts making something better...


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## uktrailmonster (Oct 10, 2004)

BanzaiRider said:


> Henri8 posted this one in the other thread. I think it looks like the perfect AM helmet. Giro, please build one of these for North America!


I really like the Casco Viper MX. Been using one now for about a year. Fit is ok (I guess that depends on the shape of your head!), it's reasonably light and well ventilated. I've landed on it a few times and so far no problems. Overall it's a good compromise for this type of riding. I've also tried the Met Parachute, which is ok but the chin guard design is not as good (heavier and takes a lot longer to fit/remove)


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## davet (Jan 12, 2004)

If you like the Giro Xen, check out the Mace NOS. It's very similar and about 1/2 the price. Not sure how popular Mace is down south of the border though.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Take a Pryme AL...*

And do this to it. Remove the neck, jaw, and ear padding, and you have a useable full coverage helmet with very good venting that can be used to ride trails all day. Don't remove any cranial padding. I've used this one in 92 degree weather and just got back from 2 weeks in Moab. It's way safer than an open face XC lid. Even though the lower padding is removed, there's still a thin rubber padding in the jaw/mouth guard area that remains. The AL is highly vented. The Deviant is also highly vented and might be a good candidate for this.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

davet said:


> If you like the Giro Xen, check out the Mace NOS. It's very similar and about 1/2 the price. Not sure how popular Mace is down south of the border though.


Looks like the discontinued SixSixOne All Ride.

Mace website here. It says there QBP-Minnesota is the US distributor.


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## Steeliekid (Apr 14, 2005)

Supernewb: It has nothing to do with "skills" - the crash's that provoke folks to look at a "full face" style lid for all mtn or aggressive xc are ones that take them by suprise - Even the most skilled rider in the world can have a random event happen that his "skills" won't be abe to correct. I think of it this way: I've played competitive hockey for over 25 years - after college, I thought it was a good idea to lose the face mask - My facial injuries over the next few years were never the result of lack of skill on my part or other players, but always a random event - puck drop at a face off shoots up and nails you in the mouth for example. Guess what - the mask is back on - I was sick of the late night visits to the ER and the real possibility of expensive dental repair. 

On topic: I just ebayed a Pryme AL - used it for the first time last night. No complaints. Perfect for the "all Mtn" type riding that i've gravitated to over the last couple of years.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

LOL!...I like this response. After spending a couple of weeks recently at Moab, it was interesting to see and hear the many responses/questions as to why my riding buddy and I were wearing a fair amount of body armor...full face helmet, knee/shin guards. We were easily able to fall back on our age as being one reason...55 and 61...but it had much more to do with being able to go faster, more aggressively than anything else. It was a lot more fun to "push" the envelope on Porcupine, Amasa, and many other trails because of less concern about bloody gashes, busted knees, knocked-out teeth, and screwed up elbows. I can't remember how many times we ran into riders with nasty knee, elbow, and chin "boo-boos" from small falls in the rocks. Using protection equipment doesn't make you a chicken or a rider with "poor skills". The difference between most dirt motorcycle riders and their views of rider protection are amazing compared to most bicycle folks. You won't see many dirt moto guys wearing a sleeveless shirt and lycra...guess they're not manly men...LOL!


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## kristian (Jan 20, 2004)

*I agree with the need for a real all mountain full face!*

I have been riding with a Switchblade since '97 (pre-ordered after seeing the first advertisment). I retired that one in 02 and am on my second one now. I also have a MadMax for real freeriding and downhilling. Since getting the Swichblade, I've only removed the face guard once (for a trip so it fit in my suit case) and done everything from race XC to ride 25 mile epics wearing it. I even used it for DH racing back before knowing any better.

Requirements:

NON-REMOVABLE face guard--most people have two or three helmets already and I don't think people who wanted an "XC" helmet would mind buying an extra helmet (if they don't have one already). By having the face guard be non-removable, it can be stronger and possibly lighter too.

Lots of air flow--I want something that breaths almost as well as an XC helmet. The added air flow would make it a little less protective, but that's what DH helmets are for.

Price--the Swichblades were a little pricey at $169 (in 1997 dollars). A price point of about $120 would be perfect. However, for a perfect helmet and a great fit, I would probably pay up to $200 on the high end.

I have always liked the fit of Giro products and would really like to see them make something like I'm describing. If they don't, I will replace my Switchblade next year and will buy the best product on the market at the time (probably a Spec. Deviant).


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

I'd buy one, or two.


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## ChamMTB (Feb 23, 2005)

Given that I would pay circa $500 for an Arai motorbike lid, and $300 for a TLD full face, I am relatively sure that like many others here, I am price elastic when it comes to my head protection.

If there was a good quality lid out there for proper AM riding, based on a giro Zen but with the old switchblade style face guard or similar (non-removable), or looking at it the other way around, a very slimmed down full face with massively more venting holes and venting around the mouth area - people would be lining up to buy them - even at $200 a pop.

Dental surgery is mega-pricy and I am sure incredibly painful. Cranial injuries aren't much fun either I'm sure. I for one am keen to keep my distance from either of these two events.

Give me a helmet option I can use. I ride hard, and one of these days I guess I will go down hard too. I would like to get up again in one piece. As people say, these falls are seldom the ones you expect, but the ones that will blind-side you on a random ride when you are "only messing" etc....that's precisely why we need a lid that you can wear habitually - rather than only putting on a full-face when you "think" you will need one.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

TNC said:


> LOL!... We were easily able to fall back on our age as being one reason...55 and 61......LOL!


Holy Smokes! You're 55??!! I see you on here alot but I had no idea you're that old. 
Wow, so as long as I maintain, I can look forward to another 25 years of offroad cycling! Sweet... Keep on shreddin'!

Disclaimer: The author of this post does not intend any disrespect.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

ChamMTB said:


> Given that I would pay circa $500 for an Arai motorbike lid, and $300 for a TLD full face, I am relatively sure that like many others here, I am price elastic when it comes to my head protection.
> 
> If there was a good quality lid out there for proper AM riding, based on a giro Zen but with the old switchblade style face guard or similar (non-removable), or looking at it the other way around, a very slimmed down full face with massively more venting holes and venting around the mouth area - people would be lining up to buy them - even at $200 a pop.
> 
> ...


I agree, I think that there would definitly be a market for a helmet that offered better protection that you could ride all day in. I for one would drop an extra $100 if I knew that it reduced my chance of head or face injury and did not hinder me on a hotter day.

However, I don' t know that this is an AM specific isssue. I would want this even riding xc. All of my worse crashes (in terms of injury) both in biking and snowboarding have been in places that were not even technical or steep. You make a good point that an extra protective helmet is of little use unless you wear it all the time.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*And I'm the young one.*



mattsavage said:


> Holy Smokes! You're 55??!! I see you on here alot but I had no idea you're that old.
> Wow, so as long as I maintain, I can look forward to another 25 years of offroad cycling! Sweet... Keep on shreddin'!
> 
> Disclaimer: The author of this post does not intend any disrespect.


LOL! No disrespect taken. The 61 year old guy is in this pic, and he still handles it. It is often hilarious how when we go to Moab and outride all but a few of the young hardcore punks. Most are shocked when we take off our full coverage helmets to reveal two old farts. Keep riding and you'll be able to keep doing it.


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## BanzaiRider (Jan 15, 2004)

mattsavage said:


> Holy Smokes! You're 55??!! I see you on here alot but I had no idea you're that old.
> Wow, so as long as I maintain, I can look forward to another 25 years of offroad cycling! Sweet... Keep on shreddin'!
> 
> Disclaimer: The author of this post does not intend any disrespect.


Hahaha, you'd be surprised how many on mtbr have passed "mid-life" well lets say over 40...

Don't worry about TNC, you can disrespect him as much as you want, he's proud to be an old fart! hahahahahahaha Hope I never meet him in person, would be a shame to eat dirt trying to follow him on the trails!


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## Tobias/Frost (Sep 27, 2004)

While readin this tread I remebered a helmet i saw in a ski movie... It was a Giro and it had what it looked lik a mouthguard but not in plastic, it looked like it was tubular steel or something. It also looked really open and vented... That might be something to think of in design or so...


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## kchri (Apr 16, 2005)

If the helmet manufacturers are reading this thead and taking anything out of it they should also realize that the same issues exist in the 'freeride' ski community. Like the MTB world freeriders are becoming the larger portion of the market, continuously are pushing the envelope, and generally have some disposable income to support their habits. They, like MTBers are in need of better full face helmet protection. Skiers are already wearing MTB type full face helmets.

The requirements are much the same, with the exception of venting, but Giro already addresses this with removable plugs for opening the vents on their ski specific helmets. Constructing a helmet that would easily serve both markets should give more marketability, better ROI and more incentive to GET MOVING ON THIS...


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## kchri (Apr 16, 2005)

Oh yea, TNC you are NOT old. You are probably younger (and will stay younger) than most on here, they just aren't old enought to realize it yet...

Old is a frame of mind...not an age.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

i would also like to add that a fullface helmet would present and opertunity for our hydration pack bite valves to be mounted closer to our mouths.


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## theg1ant (Oct 21, 2005)

I own a specalized deviant and a giro semi mx. Both are good helmets. Dviant is one of the coolets full faces but is still hot. The semi mx is got but offers the same ammount of protection as a full face helmet without the chin guard. ITs not uber light and its not super cool but coming from a full face its a huge difference I got the last semi mx at my bike shop and wish they where stil in production


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## Strafer (Jun 7, 2004)

kchri said:


> If the helmet manufacturers are reading this thead and taking anything out of it they should also realize that the same issues exist in the 'freeride' ski community.


What about All Mountain skiers?


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## MTSC (Oct 17, 2005)

I have a Dainese full face helmet and Xen. I agree of both of the performance.


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## Nilsern (May 22, 2006)

BanzaiRider said:


> I have a Switchblade but I'm almost more afraid with it then with a regular helmet since I saw the different accidents that happened with it (the mouth guard breaks and cuts the persons face!).
> 
> So 99% of the time I wear my Switchblade without the mouth guard, essentially becomes a regular XC helmet.
> 
> ...


http://www.met-helmets.com/ProdottiDet.jsp?idrub=293&idcat=13

This is the helmet you were looking for. It's a beautiful helmet made by MET. Fits really good and are pretty light for its construction. You can also remove the mouthguard.

You might be able to buy it from this shop: http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/public/index.php
Price would be around £100 + p&p


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## kchri (Apr 16, 2005)

Strafer said:


> What about All Mountain skiers?


There are just too many places on the mountain where I just don't want to be (read: groomers)...I'll stick to the freeride areas...


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## pvflyer (Dec 7, 2004)

Troy lee, is coming up with a new D2 open face, keep on check your favorite Online store it should have in stock by the end of this week!! I have a chance to try one and i can not waite to get my hands on one.

regards


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## updownride (May 17, 2006)

giro semi mx, good coverage not fullface, ebay 35$


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## routergod (Apr 4, 2006)

It seems like the only way to go is the Met Parachute.............. time to get on a currency exchange rate site


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

*not meaning to call you out but...*



pvflyer said:


> Troy lee, is coming up with a new D2 open face, keep on check your favorite Online store it should have in stock by the end of this week!! I have a chance to try one and i can not waite to get my hands on one.
> 
> regards


That sorta goes against what the general consensus is here. Most seem to want something with a chin/face guard but with decent ventilation. That TL D2 is quite the opposite -- an open face with poor ventilation


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*Umm, did anyone read Nilset and Routergod's posts above?*

The Met Helmet looks like what everyone's been jonesin' for on here.
NOW...if you could just get Giro/Bell/Specialized to take a look!
If you all haven't, click on the link provided for the Met.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Yep, as I posted previously, the MET parachute is most of what folks want. I've had one for about 6 months. Great XC helmet, but with a face guard. Several friends have also gotten on board and bought one. All equally praise the helmet.

They could be found on E-Bay from time to time. Some guy out of Singapore was selling them new for $129. In fact, just took a look and they are still there at this price. Great deal. Otherwise you have to buy from the UK.


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## ChamMTB (Feb 23, 2005)

We can find the MET here in the UK no problem, but my point about them was that they are very much less substantial than even the old Giro Switchblades were.

They are really an XC roadie lid with a plastic face guard - that really won't stand up to much in the way of a crash. Also, having tried one on - the whole lid moves out of the way if you push on the chin guard - hence rather negating the point of it being there. They are very flimsy, and the sharp chin guard/metal screws etc.....not quite what I would like in front of my face at impact....

Some protection is obviously better than none, but my point was that we need to re-think the designs altogether, and make something far more appropriate for the purpose.

I also concurr that the TLD open face seems a little odd.......I would have thought that there was more demand for a slimmed down D2 full face with good ventilation, than for an old-skool 1980's-BMX style open face with poor ventilation. Are Oakley going to re-release those nasty goggle-clip on face guards to match??!! Man - they were bad!!! Both hot and hard to breathe through, as well as in-effective in a crash!!! Ever wondered why those helmets/masks aren't used any more in BMX or MX?

Take a nice D2 shape, with a great visor, put some more ventilation in the chin guard, and put about as many vents throughout the rest of the lid as a Giro E2 has, so it's almost like an Exoskeleton. 

Then we would be cooking-on-gas.......


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

I wouldn't disagree that the MET Parachute is very minimal. I've had a Giro Switchblade (broke it saving my head), a real fullface, and the Parachute. No doubt I'd rather crash in either of the other two helmets. That being said, the Parachute is a nice compromise between all around ridability and comfort, and protection. The Switchblade had horrible blowback from your breath. Felt like my head was in an oven on hot days. Really, it was very marginal for climates like mine (Central Coast of California). The Parachute is great in this respect. One can spit without taking it off. One can drink beer with it on. One can ride even in hot weather with it on. ETC. 

However, I don't disagree with your point. I'd like to see a slightly beefier chin guard that still had the great ventilation. Until this happens, I think a lot of us may choose the next best thing which here in the states is the MET Parachute.

When you are riding North Shore, or just plain DH. Wear a "real" full-face. When XC the Parachute. Until something better comes along.


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## AaronD (Oct 20, 2005)

i use a bell bellistic full face..its not too heavy and not too hot either...suits me fine


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## mzungo (Sep 14, 2004)

*Casco Viper*

I have the casco viper i got it after recking 2 helmets last year i think the quality is great and one of the best fitting helmets i have triesd,it sure gives you confidence and has that german build thing going ya know over engineered ....i know its not preety but nor is facial scaring.


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## PiroChu (Apr 8, 2004)

Guyechka said:


> I've been watching for the new TLD helmet that is just like those old 70s motorcycle helmets. Have you seen it? It has full protection for the top and sides, but it doesn't have a face guard.


I think you meant this one, and I never knew about it till I Googled for it after reading your post.

https://catalog.troyleedesigns.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1203









I've been watching for this one, too, but it's been delayed & delayed for a long time now.

https://www.the-industries.com/f14.html









But, in either case (with a better back-of-the-head protection than a regular XC lid), I think I'd still like some protection in the front for the face as well (as I recently got some minor scratches on my face after all :eekster: ).

So, for _what's currently/immediately & easily-accessible_ here, Specialized Deviant ($350/carbon, $130/non-carbon) might be the ticket for the "All-Mountain friendly" usage (even though Bell Bellistic and such has a much more favorable price).

https://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=15903









https://www.bellbikehelmets.com/productDetail.asp?prodID=6









Cheers,
- PiroChu


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## PiroChu (Apr 8, 2004)

*Pro-Tec Ace Spade*



PiroChu said:


> So, for _what's currently/immediately & easily-accessible_ here, Specialized Deviant ($350/carbon, $130/non-carbon) might be the ticket for the "All-Mountain friendly" usage (even though Bell Bellistic and such has a much more favorable price).


So, I tried out a whole bunch of full-face helmets at LBS, and - while I felt bad pressure points with Fox & Bell & various 661 models - I had a perfect "fit" with Giro Remedy, even though I was hoping the cooler-vented Deviant will do the job (too wiggly with less cheek padding). If Remedy was vented like Deviant (or old Giro Switchblade-ish), I would've bought it right there, but something held me back... (ie. a bit too hot & too heavy for everyday "All-Mountain" riding, etc)

So, onto more browsing for now...

This one looks essentially like a skate helmet with a chin/face protection (& a visor) simply bolted on. If that's the case, it can't be that heavy & hot, I'd imagine...? 
Anyone wearing one of these? If so, any feedback, please?

*Pro-Tec Ace Spade*
















https://www.rei.com/online/store/Pr...78&parent_category_rn=4501607&vcat=REI_SEARCH










By the way, why does Pro-Tec has 2 different web domains separately?  
* https://www.protechelmet.com/products.asp?cat=12&pg=2#4891519
* https://www.pro-tec.net/bike.html ( https://www.pro-tec.net/aceSpade.html )

Cheers,
- PiroChu


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*I've liked the look of the Pro-Tec Ace Dig as well....too small...*

Used to want a sep. helmet for winter riding here in PA. Looked toward skate style helmets but always desired a visor. Found the Pro-Tec Ace Dig. Great coverage and a FUNCTIONAL visor! Around here, a visor can save your face by deflecting branches on tight singletrack, greenbriars ("pickers") and block rain on wet rides back to the car.

BUT....I've never been able to get even a close fit with the Pro-Tec brand. Not large enough. Head size is at LEAST 7&3/4. Wishin' they made an XXL or, at the very least, switched to sep. S/M/L/XL sizes to cover a broader range rather than the S/M and L/XL that they do now.


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## HENRI8 (Jul 30, 2005)

*Requirements of a AM Helmet*

I strongly beleive that a AM helmet must have some sort of a jaw-gaurd, thus my Xen is not properly protecting me. Lately, I need to take care (as a MD) of too many cyclist damaging their faces. AM riding has a lot of energy involoved to it. Alas, it must be well ventilated and light weight.
*Met Parachute *- mentioned earlier: jaw peice is not impressive and has sharp edge I wish not to meet
*Cosco Viper *- see above, looks sturdy, never rode it
*Specialized Deviant *- as its getting into the high 80s in my neck of the woods i'm trying the Deviant out as a every-ride regular helmet. It is warmer and heavier than my Xen but it can be ridden for 3-4 hours without dribing onr crazy. Looking to trying the new Giro


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Take out some padding.*



HENRI8 said:


> I strongly beleive that a AM helmet must have some sort of a jaw-gaurd, thus my Xen is not properly protecting me. Lately, I need to take care (as a MD) of too many cyclist damaging their faces. AM riding has a lot of energy involoved to it. Alas, it must be well ventilated and light weight.
> *Met Parachute *- mentioned earlier: jaw peice is not impressive and has sharp edge I wish not to meet
> *Cosco Viper *- see above, looks sturdy, never rode it
> *Specialized Deviant *- as its getting into the high 80s in my neck of the woods i'm trying the Deviant out as a every-ride regular helmet. It is warmer and heavier than my Xen but it can be ridden for 3-4 hours without dribing onr crazy. Looking to trying the new Giro


Your Deviant is a well ventilated helmet like the Pryme AL. The main problem is the neck, jaw, and earhole padding. It just kills most of the airflow you could get. I wouldn't mess with the cranial area padding, as it is designed to work in a certain way. Some have mentioned that removing the neck/jaw padding would make the helmet dangerous. I disagree unless the particular helmet has some sharp, hardened areas at that location. Open face helmets have no protection in these two areas so that comparison's not viable. My Pryme still has rubber molding in the entire jaw area, so even when/if the inner jaw pushes against your face, there is still no hard object or surface scraping your face.

Remember...we're talking about compromises here for a trail or AM helmet. People doing DH runs or extreme FR should still be wearing their Mad Max's, TLDs, or whatever. The modified full coverage helmet I'm talking about here would still provide more protection than what we have available now for this use. The Pryme AL and Deviant are the only two very highly ventilated full coverage helmets that I'm aware of that seem like good candidates for this cross-over use and modification.


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

I still have a $25 Walmart helmet. It feels light and brittle. I don't really like it, but my parents don't want to spend the extra money for a real helmet. They don't think my head safety is worth the extra money...


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## PiroChu (Apr 8, 2004)

Eastcoaster said:


> I've never been able to get even a close fit with the Pro-Tec brand. Not large enough. Head size is at LEAST 7&3/4. Wishin' they made an XXL or, at the very least, switched to sep. S/M/L/XL sizes to cover a broader range rather than the S/M and L/XL that they do now.


Hi Eastcoaster,
I totally agree! After my post, I found a local store that had some Ace Dig; a skate-style helmet with a visor (_without front face/chin protection_) that's similar in design to Giro Semi-MX from last year (which I think is now discontinued?). So I went and tried it (L/XL), just for sizing, assuming that its top-half of is also shared by Ace Spade model. Yeah, same for me - it's way too small for my big head size. :madman: So, Pro-Tec is off the list for me as well after all. Bummer, 'cause its design _would've_ work well for my All-Mtn-riding uses. I think that other All-Mtn-riding folks with smaller-size head might still like it, though...
- PiroChu

Pro-Tec Ace Dig









Giro Semi-MX


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## glacierangel (May 15, 2006)

Raghavan said:


> I still have a $25 Walmart helmet. It feels light and brittle. I don't really like it, but my parents don't want to spend the extra money for a real helmet. They don't think my head safety is worth the extra money...


lol same here. i have a crappy $35 helmet and my parents will never drop $100-$150 for a helmet. :madman:


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*Bern Helmets look good ....look like the kind of co. to do this sort of thing...*



PiroChu said:


> Hi Eastcoaster,
> I totally agree! After my post, I found a local store that had some Ace Dig; a skate-style helmet with a visor (_without front face/chin protection_) that's similar in design to Giro Semi-MX from last year (which I think is now discontinued?). So I went and tried it (L/XL), just for sizing, assuming that its top-half of is also shared by Ace Spade model. Yeah, same for me - it's way too small for my big head size. :madman: So, Pro-Tec is off the list for me as well after all. Bummer, 'cause its design _would've_ work well for my All-Mtn-riding uses. I think that other All-Mtn-riding folks with smaller-size head might still like it, though...
> - PiroChu
> 
> ...


Per their size offerings...
Bern was partially started by Leedom. (Ever heard of their snowsport helmets?) I have per they offer an XXL. Mr. Leedom (forget his first name) is one of the partners in Bern.
Their philosophy is one helmet, multiple sports. BMX, Skate, On Water, etc. 
Their style(s) are way better than any of the other skate lid offerings by the other companies. 
Seem very progressive.
I emailed them to see if they'd bite or if they already had anything in the works.
I know,...reaching for straws here...but when you're in MY situation with finding helmets that fit...a company COULD come out with the BEST All mtn./FR helmet ever...and it probably won't fit me...
Story of my life....
Heh, heh!


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## PiroChu (Apr 8, 2004)

*Bern*



Eastcoaster said:


> Bern was partially started by Leedom. (Ever heard of their snowsport helmets?) I have per they offer an XXL.


Oh, another brand I've not heard of - thanks for the info. (I knew of Leedom from snowboarding, but Bern was the first I hear of.)

So Google search led me to...

http://www.bernunlimited.com/

... and looked at their sizing. I only saw S, M, L, and their L is noted as 57cm~59cm, which is too small for my big head.

Cool that you're checking in with them about All-Mtn-ish helmet (in full-face style with face/chin protection) in XXL, though. Keep us posted.

I think my ticket for All-Mtn helmet is still a light/breazy "full-face" format (not a skate-format).

Cheers,
- PiroChu


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## MK_ (Nov 15, 2004)

*Bern*

Another vote for Bern. I've got the G helmet. Super versitle. The most comfortable helmet I've ever used. Not too havy, especialy for being a skating lid/snowboard helmet. Great ventilation. And the helmet has saved my noggin from serius injury a few times already. It is especially useful when you endo and have your bike come crashing down on the back of you head.




























_MK


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*Actually, you posted a link to their Boys helmets...*



PiroChu said:


> Oh, another brand I've not heard of - thanks for the info. (I knew of Leedom from snowboarding, but Bern was the first I hear of.)
> 
> So Google search led me to...
> 
> ...


Their helmets run XL 59 to 60.5 cm and the XXL runs 60.5 to 62.5 cm. Pretty good. Better than any of the major bike helmet mfrs.
I sent them an email last night when I posted here. Still, no answer. Will post if something surfaces.


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## J (Mar 25, 2004)

Are those old school BMX mouthguards available anywhere? I've done a few searches and can't come up with anything. 

I'd like to get a full face helmet after witnessing a particularly nasty accident this past weekend.


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## Stalk (May 24, 2005)

Been looking for breathable FF quite a while now, but as J mentioned, latest Demo accedent force to rethink a strategy, especially since riding become more aggressive and stunts become bigger.

Choosing between MET and Casco at this moment. While Casco looks like more solid solution (from engineering point of view) I couldn't find any reviews on it.
Seeing 1 positive feedback on this thread and one "not-so-happy" feedback makes it tough choise. And you have to order this online overseas. 

From those who tried Viper MX, any specific issues and or recommendations?
Thanks.


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## The Weasel (Dec 22, 2003)

Eastcoaster said:


> Give me more matte, single color helmets. Like the European switchable model in the post above. Specialized and Giro got it right with the Instinct and Xen.....


more like Giro got it right and then Specialized copied them.


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## kayakrkayakr (Oct 22, 2011)

*Pryne AL*



TNC said:


> And do this to it. Remove the neck, jaw, and ear padding, and you have a useable full coverage helmet with very good venting that can be used to ride trails all day. .


I have a deviant and vice but now need one of these to round out the line up. Let's do this.


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## Dresdenlock (Aug 10, 2009)

Ive been using the Urge Down-o-Matic for a few weeks now and I love it..its very light and it is very snug...I havent used it in the summer yet...but its more breathable than my old giro mad max.


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## storm999 (Feb 14, 2011)

Holy necro batman. Did you guys even look at the last post date before putting in your inane comments?


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## Dub Niner (Aug 15, 2010)

You can put down the shovel. You've officially dug this one up from the boneyard!


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## tartosuc (May 18, 2006)

ol thread but the problem is still not solved IMO.


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## Veda (Dec 17, 2009)

Urge seems to be the pioneer in AM helmets advancement these days. At least looking at the number of extreme local bikers using it... I actually bought one 6 months ago but never had to use it yet even once.


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## kayakrkayakr (Oct 22, 2011)

yep, not much progress in 4 years except the pryme Al is tough to find.

I rigged up some 1/2 minicell foam pads with velcro to replace the chin pads in my deviant when it gets too hot. These have more clearance and fit right in front of the hearing ports on the stock velcro.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

Veda said:


> Urge seems to be the pioneer in AM helmets advancement these days. At least looking at the number of extreme local bikers using it... I actually bought one 6 months ago but never had to use it yet even once.


Someone already mentioned the Urge Archi-Enduro; thought it should be reiterated as it seems to tick all the boxes:


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## kayakr (Oct 23, 2010)

*Deviant beats urge helmets*

The urge does not look well vented at all compared to the deviant. Deviant minus cheek pads seems to be the best we can do right now.


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## arne_and (Dec 5, 2006)

I'm quite happy with my Casco Viper MX with removable chin guard. It is very well ventilated, and passes DH certification. It has a great "harness" system for adjusting size, works great for me at least.


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## SpecialK (Feb 23, 2005)

*Deviant vs. Urge vs. Casco*

I have been splitting my time between an old Giro Switchblade and a Specialized Deviant (normal version, not carbon). Both are getting a little long in the tooth and I have been trying to find a new helmet. The problem is I just can't find a place to buy them...

I have yet to find a US source that sells the Urge Archi-Enduro. Bike Bling says they do but when I called they have no stock. I have not found any bike shop or online source that carries it.

Specialized seems to be almost sold out of the Deviant and Deviant II on their website and none of the bike shops I have called have any in stock.

Obviously, Casco is not available in the US so its a little harder to order but I imagine I could order them from a UK or European online dealer. It just ends up being pretty crazy expensive. The cheapest I found the Casco MX and faceguard was for a total of 140 Euros, just over $200 plus another $30 for shipping. Ouch.

Anyone find a source for any of these helmets?

Thanks.


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## XSportsProtective (Jun 28, 2011)

We expect to have our 2012 shipment in house in 3-4 weeks (PM me if you want specifics). We love the Archi Enduro - super light weight and huge venting, with an "open"/"light" chin bar design. The Down-O-Matic is sweet, too, but the Archi Enduro seems to be more like the AM / light chinbar helmet you're looking for.


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## arne_and (Dec 5, 2006)

SpecialK said:


> Anyone find a source for any of these helmets?


Casco is a bit cheaper from bike24:
Bike24 - Casco Viper MX Helmet
Bike24 - Casco Viper MX Chin Guard

About 106 euro plus 20 euro shipping (select shipping to US to see price without VAT).


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## arne_and (Dec 5, 2006)

Why doesn't someone make a really simple chin guard, something like this ski helmet (although stronger than this, this is just to illustrate):









For rough trail riding, I think this kind of guard would cover 90% of the crashes, and it is so light and open that you won't notice it while riding uphill.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

I'm sure it may be because no one wants to look like a field goal kicker. good thread though....


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

ChamMTB said:


> My last lid (a Giro Zen) has no more coverage than my old E2, but is hotter and still won't protect my face/side of my head at all.


I found it odd that the Xen is marketed as an "AM" helmet, when it has less coverage than any XC helmet I've owned. It only _looks _like it comes down farther in the back because it comes down _less _on the sides.


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## jrsbike (Jul 24, 2004)

I think the Lacrosse helmet makers could do something. I was looking at my Cascade without the cage and it looks like what everyone is talking about. Unfortunately it is not light and would need meore venting.


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## ronyc (Aug 27, 2008)

Easton Raptor Solid Color Lacrosse Helmet

I was actually looking at some of the easton Lacrosse helmets and with some modification it can work.
As is it can be a light DH helmet, with out the chin, and more exposed ear part, it could be a nice AM helmet with ample coverage from the side and the back of the head.


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## jrsbike (Jul 24, 2004)

My son has a Cascade CPX around here someplace that is lighter than my old tank. I might squeeze my head into it and go for a ride to see how it shakes out. It has a lot of vents and could be resonably light with a little demolition. The Easton looks great but we have never tried it. Easton has not been in the LAX helmet market that long. I think there is a tie to Giro.


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## kayakr (Oct 23, 2010)

re: easton raptor

wow, that thing with some black body armor would encourage the XC crowd to clear out of your path. venting looks a bit low.


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## ronyc (Aug 27, 2008)

The raptor would make an awsome AM helmet, without the face guard though.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

I dunno, I don't think you can ask for much more than the urge archi-enduro.... maybe a bit more venting, more of an open helmet. Thinkin about pickin one of them up, but can't see running it in the heat of summer on all mountain rides, would just be TOO hot


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## GHOPPER (Jun 17, 2010)

Anyone play hockey? Ive been thinking a hockey helmet with cage, mabey cut out the area in front of the eyes would work.


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## kmac999 (Apr 12, 2010)

GHOPPER said:


> Anyone play hockey? Ive been thinking a hockey helmet with cage, mabey cut out the area in front of the eyes would work.


Until a branch snags in the cage as you speed by

Sometimes too much protection is just that, too much. I think the same thing looking at that ski helmet above, a snag waiting to happen. Hell, vents on a helmet are bad enough depending on where you ride and how overgrown the trails are.


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## mikemikemike (Feb 10, 2008)

there's a really nice looking helmet in the video in this thread, at somewhere around 4 min. Is it the urge archi-enduro mentioned above? That looks like the ticket!

http://forums.mtbr.com/all-mountain/fabien-barel-am-skills-video-721140-post8200244.html


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

*Urge All-M release delayed*

For those interested, I just got an e-mail from Urge saying the release of the All-M helmet has been delayed to September 2012  :madman:


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

r1Gel said:


> For those interested, I just got an e-mail from Urge saying the release of the All-M helmet has been delayed to September 2012  :madman:


Thanks for posting this, I've been combing the web looking for info on the availability of this model and was finding it awfully strange that other then their website, it can't be found anywhere.

Looks like a great helmet though so I might just get a new liner for my Xen and wait it out.


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## orthorex (May 3, 2005)

Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express


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