# dirt jumps - specs?



## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

Just wondering. Is there such a thing as specifications for dirt jumps? Size, height, angle, lip2lip distance, etc. 

I'm trying to figure the area and amount of dirt I would need for a serie of 3 to 4 intermediate/advanced jumps. 

I'm more into trails than jumps :madman:


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## ortedd (Jan 14, 2008)

Some info at the bottom. I believe they ended up reworking the actual jumps relative to the plans, but it should give you rough volumes of dirt required.

There is even a layout of the park.

http://www.wwucycling.com/djpark/


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

there are no official specs/rules of dirt jumps or "trails" as they are known in the BMX world. but there is a wealth of experience that BMX and MTB-DJ builders have. the best BMX / MTBMX trails have a mixture of steepnesses and gap lengths with rollers and berms and hipped landings thrown in for good measure. even better MTBMX trails have mixtures of terrain--natural inclines and declines in the landscape which adds to the overall experience. different trail builders have different styles as well. guys who race bmx or 4-cross tend to want longer, bigger/taller jumps but with somewhat mellower transitions, whereas riders who are focused on tricks or blasting height will want steep lips and landings but shorter gaps. do you want to flow around casually, or do you want to blast straight up and nose dive down?

_*DIMENSIONS*_

indoor wood BMX bikepark box jumps are more "standard" than trails and the dimensions are a good starting point. typically you'll see bikepark box jumps between 3 and 6 feet tall, with most being 4 'or 5'. the lip to landing gap is between 8' and 12', with most being 10'. launch transition radius is usually between 45 and 65 degrees of an arc, with most about 50-55 degrees.

to recap how "radius" works . . . . if you use an 8 foot radius and draw a 90 degree arc, you end up with a classic 8 foot tall 8 foot tall quarter pipe that goes right up to vert. cut that down in height by half, and you have a 4 foot tall launch with an 8 foot radius. (that's where the green line is in my picture). most bikepark bmx'ers would consider this mellow . . . but bmx racers are used to tall jumps with much flatter/mellower transitions for high speed and distance... their launch might be only 30 degrees of arc but still 4 or 5 feet tall. for a little more "pop" or "boost" a lot of ramp builders will go with 7'6" (53 degree arc) transitions cut to 4 feet tall. 









landings are just as, if not more, important than launches to have jumps with good flow. a lot of trail builders build landings taller than launches ("step-ups") (typically 1 to 3 feet taller) for the reason that you get a smoother landing if you can get more wheelbase/bike lengths on the surface of the landing. the only way to make the landing mirror the launch as far as steepness, but also make room for more wheelbase, is to make the landing taller. Short steep landings can be bad news because they are really easy to overclear into flat ground.

this "parabolic trajectory" diagram is good to think about--but it's not an exact science for the reason that a rider can use their body to affect their trajectory by 'boosting' or by 'sucking up' or 'racering' a lip. still though it's good to keep in mind if you are thinking about some variation in your line. even a mellow jump of 30 degrees can be very effective as a fun setup to a steeper jump. note that going steeper than 45 degrees does not naturally make a person go farther. having a line of jumps with varying steepnesses and varying gaps can either be fun and challenging or it can totally suck--you see riders constantly over-clearing or casing. so, the first time around it's better to build all your jumps in the line the same gap and roughly the same steepness, then go for variation later.

also note that the gap you clear has mostly to do with your speed and NOT with the height of the jump. rate X time = distance. you could have a 2 foot tall mini setup jump with 10 foot of gap followed by a 5 foot tall set also with 10 feet of gap. the setup jump will set your speed for the rest of the line. classic beginner mistake is making the first set either too short of a gap or too long, so that when you hit the second set you have to do weird body english to land in the right spot.










SO...... here are some rough categories, keeping in mind that a good trail designer can and should mix things up......:

BEGINNER:. 3 foot tall, 30 degree arc, 8-10 feet of gap. this is great for beginners to learn. don't go shorter than 8 feet, cuz it will be pointless. 10 is still very doable for beginners with this mellowness. if it's going down a hill and there's some decent speed you can even go longer, like 12-15 and beginners can still clear it (look at BMX tracks)

INTERMEDIATE: 4 feet tall, 45 degree arc, 10-12 feet gap

INTERMEDIATE PLUS : 4 feet tall, 50-55 degree arc, 10-12 feet gap

ADVANCED: 5-6 feet tall, 45 degree arc, 16-20 feet of gap (mellower for farther distance--see trajectory illustration below... mtb'ers tend to like long distance floaters).... OR Steep-AND-Deep: 5-6 feet tall, 55 degree arc, 12-16 feet gap.

PRO: 6-7 feet tall lips, 60-70 degree arc, 16+ feet gap.

*SPACING*

In the old days of BMX dirt jumping, jumps used to be spaced out a little more like bmx tracks. You hit one, cruzed, then hit another one. Then when the BMX trails revolution happened during the 90's, "rhythm"sections became the norm. These are back to back jumps. You land at the top of the landing smoothly, basically go into a nice bowl/swoosh shape then blast up the next lip.... Spacing is important and is a stylistic choice by the designer. One rule of thumb is the distance from the top of the landing to the top of the next lip should be about double the gap you just cleared. So.... figure, 10 foot gap, 20 feet of bowl, 10 foot gap, 20 feet of bowl, etc. Whether you dig down to create bowled pits versus keeping everything above grade on flat ground can impact your spacing. What you don't want is too much flat ground between jumps, so that riders have to crank in between--yuck. But if you're on a downgradient, it may not be a big deal to have some cruising time in between.

That's enough for now.

*LINKS:*

*DJ , Pump Track plans *
https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=402237

_*Ideal Lip Radius*_
https://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224301

_*Ideal Arc*_
https://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221473

_*18 Steps to Building a Dirt Jump or Freeride Park*_
https://www.imba.com/resources/trail_building/build_freeride_park.html


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

wow. thats alot of good info all crammed into one spot!


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

some more from my notebook . . .


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## SunDog (Feb 21, 2004)

Nice stuff.


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## Pwnage24 (Apr 7, 2010)

If Im understanding it right, if you use a 45 degree arc/launch and say you wanted the jump to 3 1/2 feet tall, you would use a 7 ft arc; 5 ft tall, use 10 ft arc, etc?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Pwnage24 said:


> If Im understanding it right, if you use a 45 degree arc/launch and say you wanted the jump to 3 1/2 feet tall, you would use a 7 ft arc; 5 ft tall, use 10 ft arc, etc?


WAIT . . . . I'm glad you asked me this cuz as I was trying to re-explain what "arc" is, I realized that I have been applying the term wrong this whole time.

Yes, if you want a 4 foot tall jump, you can use an 8 foot radius. That will be mellow by some bmx standards, but will be a great starting point. A lot of BMX park box jumps are 5 foot tall with an 8 foot radius.

Where I screwed up is that I assumed that because 4 is half of 8 then it's a 45 degree take-off and a "45 degree arc" (45 being half of 90). This is wrong. In my drawing below, the launch ramp clearly uses more than 45 degrees or arc. Probably like 58 or something. . . .I wasn't factoring in the width of the "deck" at the top of the lip. The medium steepness launch that I had been talking about is supposed to look like the shaded area.

So ignore my talk about 45,, 50 -55 etc. So bump all those numbers way up.. Damn, I hate being wrong, but when I am I admit it.


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## Pwnage24 (Apr 7, 2010)

OK Thanks a lot. I wanted to make a jump 3 1/2 feet tall that is just scaled down and had the same arc from your 4 foot one but I didnt know for sure if it was right. I got it now.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2010)

It is all a bunch of trigonometry, possibly straying into calculus. That sketch of the 8 pack is a sine wave that increases in amplitude and periodicity. Math in action. Now it's time to dig.


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## hazdxb (Oct 11, 2008)

imaorobbie said:


> It is all a bunch of trigonometry, possibly straying into calculus. That sketch of the 8 pack is a sine wave that increases in amplitude and periodicity. Math in action. Now it's time to dig.


Funny you mention that my math teacher who enjoys biking, knows i enjoy DJ and told me to pay attention in class as this would help build dirt jumps


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

hazdxb said:


> Funny you mention that my math teacher who enjoys biking, knows i enjoy DJ and told me to pay attention in class as this would help build dirt jumps


He'll be stoked if you bring him this problem and tell him you want to learn how to solve it. 









_The motorcyclist attempts to jump over a series of cars and trucks and lands smoothly on the other ramp, i.e., such that his velocity is tangent to the ramp at B. Determine the launch speed vA necessary to make the jump.

(A) vA = 16.83 m/s 
(B) vA = 15.66 m/s 
(C) vA = 11.07 m/s 
(D) vA = 11.90 m/s _

https://wps.prenhall.com/esm_hibbeler_engmech_10/14/3722/952844.cw/index.html


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## hazdxb (Oct 11, 2008)

cmc4130 said:


> He'll be stoked if you bring him this problem and tell him you want to learn how to solve it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well i took me a little while and i figured it out, the asnwer's A!.....no i didn't i just cheated and found the answer on the website you gave me  but ima ask him because that definitely looks like it would help build a lot of jumps hehe 
p.s that pic is awesome :thumbsup:


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## marmosetg (Aug 15, 2010)

Here's a table of the ramp length (x) vs height  and the launch angle (phi) for a 8' radius
ex: if you make it 4' high it will be 6.9' long and have a launch angle of 60 degrees

x	y	phi
8.0	8.0	90
7.9	6.6	80
7.5	5.3	70
6.9	4.0	60
6.1	2.9	50
5.1	1.9	40
4.0	1.1	30
2.7	0.5	20
1.4	0.1	10
0.0	0.0	0

Here are the formulas to generate a table if you want a different radius (R):

x = R sin(phi) 
y = R (1 - cos(phi))
launch angle = phi

So if you wanted a 10' radius ramp, with a 45 degree launch angle, you would draw your 10' radius on the plywood and lop it off at 2.9' [y = 10 (1 - cos(45))]
it would be 7.1' long [x = 10 sin(45)]


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Nice work !!


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## dropdeadfed (Aug 10, 2011)

so i'm getting ready, w/ a mini excavator this weekend to build some stuff. i got done writing all the stuff down then continued reading...are there any other posts/forums that cover this in greater (and correct) detail? help appreciated.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

dropdeadfed said:


> so i'm getting ready, w/ a mini excavator this weekend to build some stuff. i got done writing all the stuff down then continued reading...are there any other posts/forums that cover this in greater (and correct) detail? help appreciated.


Heh that's pretty funny--"greater and correct detail"... What do you want to know? Did you already read through the "DJ, Pump Track plans" thread ? I have posted a lot of things there. What are you planning to build ?


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## dropdeadfed (Aug 10, 2011)

Farther down in this thread all this was wrong somehow? How then could I correct/change/scale this to work correctly?

"BEGINNER:. 3 foot tall, 30 degree arc, 8-10 feet of gap. this is great for beginners to learn. don't go shorter than 8 feet, cuz it will be pointless. 10 is still very doable for beginners with this mellowness. if it's going down a hill and there's some decent speed you can even go longer, like 12-15 and beginners can still clear it (look at BMX tracks)

INTERMEDIATE: 4 feet tall, 45 degree arc, 10-12 feet gap

INTERMEDIATE PLUS : 4 feet tall, 50-55 degree arc, 10-12 feet gap

ADVANCED: 5-6 feet tall, 45 degree arc, 16-20 feet of gap (mellower for farther distance--see trajectory illustration below... mtb'ers tend to like long distance floaters).... OR Steep-AND-Deep: 5-6 feet tall, 55 degree arc, 12-16 feet gap.

PRO: 6-7 feet tall lips, 60-70 degree arc, 16+ feet gap. "

I'll search for the other thread, link it?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

I think what I said is still true. 45 degrees is beginner. 60 is normal/intermediate. 70+ is steeper


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## dropdeadfed (Aug 10, 2011)

ive seen levels with a 45 degree bubble in them but how exactly are these angles being measured? i think this is where i get confused a bit too, the 45 degree looks to be from the top of that imaginary right angle (shown top left in the illustration)...is the angle then not relative to the riding surface of the take off? some of this i can tell already is just going to be trial and error and "feel" do most people just bulid, eyeball it, ride it and see what happens to develop a feel for it?  id like to be precise as possible where ever I can....


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## dropdeadfed (Aug 10, 2011)

cmc4130 said:


> What are you planning to build ?


Probably gaps/doubles, tables & step ups. I'd like to do DJ's eventually but I dont have the bike for it currently. So by the sound of things everything < 60. I like that 8-pack you posted in the other thread, I think a smaller version of that would keep me busy & entertained for a long time :thumbsup:


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

dropdeadfed said:


> ive seen levels with a 45 degree bubble in them but how exactly are these angles being measured? i think this is where i get confused a bit too, the 45 degree looks to be from the top of that imaginary right angle (shown top left in the illustration)...is the angle then not relative to the riding surface of the take off? some of this i can tell already is just going to be trial and error and "feel" do most people just bulid, eyeball it, ride it and see what happens to develop a feel for it?  id like to be precise as possible where ever I can....


dirt jump builders in bmx and mtb definitely just eyeball it. the only time you're measuring exact arcs is when you're cutting wood transitions for wood ramps. i'm just talking about them so that people at least think about the shape when they're shaping and packing dirt. even though i'm saying they just eyeball it, it's not random though--because most bmx'ers ride both dirt and wood/concrete (especially up north where they ride indoor park all winter then ride dirt in the summer) they have kind of an intuitive idea of what a good shape feels like. at the same time a jump is a jump.... lots of shapes are rideable. so there's no need to geek out. a lot of bmx race tracks don't even use transitioned launches ... they're more like transition to flat-bank.... just build something and ride it, build something else, ride that. have fun....

i suggest getting a DJ/4x bike and riding some bmx race tracks. .


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

dropdeadfed said:


> I'll search for the other thread, link it?


linked above. underlined. i don't know why mtbr made links not show the text of the URL any more.


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## dropdeadfed (Aug 10, 2011)

1st weekend and 8rs on excavator under my belt. I've bitten off more than I could chew! haha. guessed on how tall the roll-in should've been and guessed wrong? at the time it was at least 8' tall with about a 45 degree angle...probably too much space in between (30'+) it and the first table (approx 4' tall)? back to the drawing board I guess...dug the bowl out deeper and took most of that dirt and added it to the roll-in....now my back is hurt and i have to wait to finish/retest. suggestions? thinking about grabbing a carpenter friend and building a drop behind my huge mound for extra speed, not sure what else to do...


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

dropdeadfed said:


> 1st weekend and 8rs on excavator under my belt. I've bitten off more than I could chew! haha. guessed on how tall the roll-in should've been and guessed wrong? at the time it was at least 8' tall with about a 45 degree angle...probably too much space in between (30'+) it and the first table (approx 4' tall)? back to the drawing board I guess...dug the bowl out deeper and took most of that dirt and added it to the roll-in....now my back is hurt and i have to wait to finish/retest. suggestions? thinking about grabbing a carpenter friend and building a drop behind my huge mound for extra speed, not sure what else to do...


a roll-in does have to be taller than 8 feet to jump a normal sized table/double (typically 8-12 feet gap).

also note that if your roll-in is 8 feet tall and you're thinking well i'll make it taller by digging down a bowl in front of it.... it may not help as much as you think because you're digging a hole that you still have to get out of. the issue is elevation. you get a energy from dropping from a certain height. but if you go below ground level, you will use some of that energy to get back up. think of rollercoasters....

30 feet is not an unreasonable distance from the top of the roll-in to the top of the launch.

i made a thread on roll-ins over at ridemonkey. check it out! :

*roll-ins*
Roll-ins - Ridemonkey.com

i just got back from Whistler. here's the picture of their roll-in in the Air Dome. this is for a "regular" sized box jump into the foam pit (or the step-up tables).










These are the two step-up box jumps that you can hit after dropping in from that roll-in. They are step ups because the landing is higher than the lip. This is a great design because a taller landing will also mean a bigger radius with more transition surface to land on. So, although, yeah, you do have to make it over the step-up, once you do, you have a much radder/easier/bigger/safer/speedier landing.


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

dropdeadfred - where do you live? There might be experienced dirt jumpers/builders that live near you that would be happy to give you a hand......


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

i took pictures of these two ramps at Whistler. they illustrate the point that a shorter/lower launch ramp should be mellower or have less "arc" than a taller launch. in fact the smaller ramp probably has the same radius (likely 9' or so) as the taller ramp, it's just cut off lower. the big mistake for beginners is building a 3 foot tall ramp with too much arc (i.e. short radius). it might be okay for a skateboard, but it does ont feel good on a mountain bike.



















for freeride/DH, you can have really big launches that still have a mellow arc (big versions of the small launch pictured above). like this tabletop bridge jump at duthie. look at the launch angle.









for slopestyle, a lot of times riders are going for distance and height, like this launch:


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## SacredYeti (Aug 24, 2011)

And this is why mechanical engineers build boss ass jump section :thumbsup: hahaha

:EDIT: Not sure what you guys have to work with but maybe building a launch ramp will be easier/funner than moving/shaping dirt? Just a thought, I figure a ramp you can carry with two people (or in sections and assemble on site?) and it requires less maintaining than dirt and if you want, you move it like that.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

dropdeadfed said:


> ive seen levels with a 45 degree bubble in them but how exactly are these angles being measured? i think this is where i get confused a bit too, the 45 degree looks to be from the top of that imaginary right angle (shown top left in the illustration)...is the angle then not relative to the riding surface of the take off? some of this i can tell already is just going to be trial and error and "feel" do most people just bulid, eyeball it, ride it and see what happens to develop a feel for it?  id like to be precise as possible where ever I can....


This is the issue for sure. Can you pick the required angle relative to the slope?

In a park setting, the angle may be relative to flat, but in the bush the angles vary subtly metre to metre. Some see the clinometer as the bible. We see test riding as the way to go. Over and over and over. And over. Add a bit and try etc. I am no expert on gap jumps, but starting with low angles on both takeoff and tranny and adding as needed makes more sense than going in balls and all from the get-go.


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## Kalamath (Mar 23, 2010)

For dirt that's true, but I appreciate the discussion on angles, slope, etc. I've been thinking about building some stuff in my own backyard, but it's fairly steep and wooded. Smaller wood take offs may be the ticket for my situation, and you want to get those right the first or second time.


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

You guys are crazy. We just dig a giant hole, pile up dirt on both sides, eyeball it and jump it. Adjust according to if you kill someone or not lol


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Ilikebmx999 said:


> You guys are crazy. We just dig a giant hole, pile up dirt on both sides, eyeball it and jump it. Adjust according to if you kill someone or not lol


Even though it might seem like bmx'ers "don't think, just do" I will bet you that the most epic trails in MTB / BMX have been built by experienced riders who have either an intuitive sense of shape and spacing (due to years of riding other epic trails) or they actually do pace and measure out their jumps and spacing.

There have been so many times I have been at spots where a line just did not work right. Everybody argued about what was wrong with it. Sometimes it was torn down several times by different people all with their own idea of how to fix it. Frequently, the problem was basic physics. Such as not the common mistake of having a short gap jump followed by a long gap jump--some people don't understand that the first set basically determines your speed for the next set. Riders can adjust to try to overcome the flaw--like going fast and scrubbing/racering the first set to maintain speed....or boosting super high on the first one and trying to generate extra speed.... But this type of exaggerated effort to "make it" through a line is the opposite of "flow." Flowy trails work almost effortlessly, even when they're huge. And whether you care to think about math or not, "flow" is related to physics.

Great MTB / BMX trails are an art form. Check out this epic thread: What is Trails? - Ridemonkey.com

And just IMO, I think your method of digging your dirt from between the launch and landing (making a pit-of-death hole) is lame. But, whatever, you're free to build however you want.

If you're building with native dirt, I recommend to people that digging from the riding line (before the launch and after the landing) is one of the best methods IMO (like on this cover of DIG Magazine below). It integrates the jumps into the terrain; you don't have any random holes; and if you eject you don't fall as far. (The only drawback is water accumulation--but there are solutions to that, and in some climates it's rarely an issue.)




























And, yeah, sometimes you gotta nut up and just jump things. Nobody's arguing with that.:thumbsup:


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

I agree with you. Pits of death worked fine for my friends and I between the ages of 15-18 lol. We had one set of trails with 4-5 jump rhythm sections. 

I'm too old and have to little time to dig holes in the ground these days. 

It takes dedication and precise planning to get trails like 9th street in Austin or the POSH trails in PA.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Ilikebmx999 said:


> I agree with you. Pits of death worked fine for my friends and I between the ages of 15-18 lol. We had one set of trails with 4-5 jump rhythm sections.
> 
> I'm too old and have to little time to dig holes in the ground these days.
> 
> It takes dedication and precise planning to get trails like 9th street in Austin or the POSH trails in PA.


Cool, thanks..... I was heavily influenced by PA trails, as well as all the other videos and spots from the 90's. I took a trip up there back in '97 just to drive around to different spots and learn from the best.

Here's another drawing I did to explain to people why certain rhythm sections feel so rad.










And this drawing just shows basically the concept of back-to-back bowls and why the rough rule of thumb works _"distance from top of landing to next lip = double the gap you just cleared"..... _


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

another example of the standard height & radius of a contest / slopestyle launch:


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## GaspinForAir (Jun 19, 2012)

cmc4130 said:


> also note that the gap you clear has mostly to do with your speed and NOT with the height of the jump. rate X time = distance. you could have a 2 foot tall mini setup jump with 10 foot of gap followed by a 5 foot tall set also with 10 feet of gap


so u can jump 10ft gap no matter the size jump, so what does a taller ft jump do besides letting u make a steeper angle out of the jump? If i have a 2 ft jump with 30 degree arc vs a 5ft jump with 30 degree arc, what would it effect?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

GaspinForAir said:


> so u can jump 10ft gap no matter the size jump, so what does a taller ft jump do besides letting u make a steeper angle out of the jump? If i have a 2 ft jump with 30 degree arc vs a 5ft jump with 30 degree arc, what would it effect?


a taller jump will help you go higher.

the wheelbase of your bike needs time/space to "transition" up to a certain steepness. if a ramp is very short but also steep (a lot of arc), then the ramp will feel very abrupt. this is why a short launch ramp should have much less arc than a taller launch. you can still boost it with your legs and body. the actual take off-angle of the launch is not directly determinative of the rider's trajectory, because on small jumps, you're bunnyhopping/boosting. as the jump gets taller, it's less about bunnyhopping and more about compressing into the transition and boosting out of the curve, trampoline style....

if you think in terms of full 90 degree arc (true "quarter pipe"), it's little more clear.

the guy who built this is probably a skateboarder. but it's still a very short ramp to be going all the way up to vert. this would be considered a "tight" transition because it's much more abrupt. you go from flat ground to steep very quickly.









this quarter pipe, on the other hand, also goes up to vert (90 degrees of arc), but because it has a bigger radius transition (probably about 9'), it would not feel abrupt.










and then Mat Hoffman back in 1991 . . ""I set my first high-air record in 1991, 20 feet above the top of a 21-foot quarterpipe. To do this, my best friend, Steve Swope, towed me behind a motorcycle at 45 mph"
Mat "Condor" Hoffman talks about coming back to BMX after injuries - ESPN The Magazine


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Did this drawing a while back. It was to combat a common problem I see at dirt jump spots. People build a short-gap jump at the beginning of a line, thinking that either that it'll help a newb get into the flow or that riders can pump to get more speed as they go through the line....

in my experience, neither is true (or even if it's possible, it's not the best). the first jump sets the speed for the line. unless the line is going downgradient, the result will be that you're not quite going fast enough for the second jump, and everyone will case it. to not case it, they'll have to "scrub" the first jump (stay ultra low in racer style), then boost the second jump to make it. we actually had that setup at a spot around here. yes, people learned to ride it, but it was not ideal.


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