# Moab, Portal, and Two Old Guys



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So I met my buddy at Moab for Outerbike, he was running late so I camped at Klondike with my bride on Thursday night, rode Klondike Friday morning, then it was time to tour Outerbike!

I really like Outbike, it's not just seeing all the cool stuff, it's talking to folks about all the cool stuff; some of them folks are smart! I got to try out a Trust Shout, an Esker Eskat, and I got some great deals on Zoic shorts. Lunch was great, real vegetarian cuisine, then we headed out to Navajo Rocks for a little pre-dinner cruise. We rode Ramblin to Middle Earth to Rocky Tops. It was late when we got done riding at Navaho, so we ate in camp and I got a nice hot shower.

Waking early we went into town for coffee and pastries, then we all went out to Outerbike to sample the goods once more. After cruising the tents we headed to the shuttle line and it was easily 100yds long! So we decided to drive up to teh Mag 7 trail head and do our own shuttle. Note to self: The shuttle fee ain't worth the money if they ain't got enough shuttles.

We were able to get on Mag 7 between shuttle groups, so it was only moderately crowded. We rode Gateway to Bullrun to Arths Corner to Little Canyon. This was the decision point, we were either headed out Gemini Bridges Road or we'd strike out for Gold Bar. Gold Bar to Gold Bar Rim allows for an out and back as long you don't start heading into Blue Dot, so we decided to ride up to at least the high point.

My buddy did fine on the climb up Gold Bar, but it was the slick rock jeep climb on Gold Bar Rim that did him in. Gold Bar Rim is steep and winding, relatively smooth slick rock as far as it goes for being a jeep trail, no big ledges, but it's a long climb with steeper pitches that can be a bear, especially if you're riding in full sun on a warm day.

























After topping out Gold Bar we talked about turning back or continuing on to Portal. I couldn't really gauge his level of fatigue, he said he was good to go, so we descended into the intersection with Rusty Nail and Blue Dot. At this point, there really is no turning back as you'd have to go back up the way you came. Note of reference: Blue Dot is as hard and exposed as the expert section of Gold Bar that follows.









Things did not go well from here, my buddy started walking more and more moves, getting more and more frustrated, started thinking about ways to "get out", but unfortunately this was so late in the game that the only way out was forward. We pushed on toward Portal, he did lots of walking and I did lots of waiting, literally hours, but fortunately he only crashed once on a small wash so we arrived to the junction of Portal and Poison Spider in one piece with a few hours of light remaining; but he was dragging hard and not in the greatest of spirits.

At least the views were good:

















After discussing the options; Portal would be short but exposed, Poison Spider would be longer but safer, we opted for Poison Spider. Looking back, of course hindsight is 20-20, but little did we know that Poison Spider would involve miles of walking though deep sand; and so we walked a bunch. We did finally get out, we ran out of water a few miles from the trail head, my buddy was peeved at me for "my choices", though of course we made the choices together; tough day all told.

So yeah, the moral of the story: Know your partner's limitations before undertaking an epic ride.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Of all the Moab classics I find the most exasperated riders on gold bar/blue dot and slickrock. But yeah, I'd much rather hike down Portal than out the sandy slog of Poison Spider. Bringing new riders on Mag 7 I always try to gauge their skillset on something like Ahab first then tell them exactly what they're in for on Mag 7. This year 3 of our group didn't do Mag 7 based on that. Of them 1 would have made it but been miserable by the end, the other 2 no way.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Thanks for the story. Nice pics. Mag 7 does seem to generate more than its fair share of adventures.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

An ebike solves all of the Gold Bar/Poison Spider issues. Just saying. You can to follow the Little Canyon/Metal Masher Jeep route to Bull Canyon and then to the Golden Crack area, and over to the top of Portal when you cut back down to Poison Spider. 

In the future, when all of the trails out there are open, groups will be able to stay together by having the, ahem, less strong riders keep up. 

I look forward to Mag 7 opening up to ebikes at some point, but in the meantime you can have a lot of fun up there on one.


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## A/C in Az (Jan 14, 2019)

Your friend made the mistake of trying to cover too much instead of ride less and enjoy the scenery more. Too many people get caught in the trap of trying to "do it all" instead of just enjoying bits and pieces. I would rather ride less and take more pictures, the scenery there is worth stopping and enjoying.


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## RooHarris (May 11, 2011)

Many years ago in early winter, I mean January 1992, my girl friend and I rode Gold Bar to the top from the parking area for Gemini Bridges. It was my first time using clipless pedals. Not a good idea, but hey, I had been practicing w/ them in my livingroom. It was not a good proving ground for new lessons. I crashed 5 times (I remember exactly how many because each hurt). On the 5th crash, she stood over my crumpled body and just looked down and asked "don't you feel like crying?". We slogged on to the top of the 11 mile uphill. Took in the great views and also ran into 3 locals doing an out and back from Poison Spider. They offered to give us a ride back to our car at the end. I had never done that interconnect before and we agreed to be guided. Unfortunately along the way, one of the locals did an OTB and hyperextended his back badly. The sun was beginning its quick descent and it was becoming colder. The two other riders decided to remain w/ their buddy for the night! Temperatures got down into the low 30's. We got our bearings out and headed down to warn the authorities of the situation. While riding out in the dark, we came across a woman rider who was lost and separated from her husband. WE took her under our guidance and while slowly navigating down the last long section of the sandy road saw headlights coming towards us. It was the husband! We followed him down to the Potash Rd where we discovered the local sheriff waiting for the lost woman. By this time, it was 7PM and fully dark. All's well that ended well for us. Saving the woman got us two cold beers (at that point, two warm beers would have been better) and a ride back to our car. 

The sheriff notified S&R which would go out early in the AM to rescue the hapless locals. We were also told that rescues were quite common on PS due to too much over confidence of many out of area riders. His last rescue entailed getting a guy out of a pinyon pine who fell 20' into it when he had missed the Portal trail. The tree saved his life! His bike was not so lucky and fell onto the Potash Rd below from 300 feet up. 

A shower that night was exquisite! Sex was out of the question as we were too beat...

Tales from the Moab crypt!


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

^lol, that's a great story!


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Really nice pics, Ben. I've learned to almost never let a peer of mine who is in worse shape than me to make the route choices. It almost always comes back on me,I'm the bad guy for whatever happened. 
This has happened so many times, that I've finally learned my lesson. I even got blamed by my own wife for many of those occasions. 
She knows that I know better.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

honkinunit said:


> An ebike solves all of the Gold Bar/Poison Spider issues. Just saying. You can to follow the Little Canyon/Metal Masher Jeep route to Bull Canyon and then to the Golden Crack area, and over to the top of Portal when you cut back down to Poison Spider.
> 
> In the future, when all of the trails out there are open, groups will be able to stay together by having the, ahem, less strong riders keep up.
> 
> I look forward to Mag 7 opening up to ebikes at some point, but in the meantime you can have a lot of fun up there on one.


I'm ambivalent about ebikes in general, so don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way.

Saying that an ebike solves anything is like saying cell phones can save your butt in the backcountry. It is *possible* that they can, but what if there's no signal, or poor signal, or the battery dies, or you get it wet?

You might deduce after any of the above happen that you are in fact more hosed than before.

Same with an ebike if the battery dies or the motor fails. Main difference is that you can get further out, faster than on a regular bike, and suddenly realize how truly hosed you are when you have no more assist and you and that 50# pig are still 15 miles from a road or trailhead.

Common sense is the answer -- pick your trails and your partners wisely, don't bite off more than you can chew, make smart decisions when "out there", etc... -- but it doesn't seem to be very common anymore.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

mikesee said:


> I'm ambivalent about ebikes in general, so don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way.
> 
> Saying that an ebike solves anything is like saying cell phones can save your butt in the backcountry. It is *possible* that they can, but what if there's no signal, or poor signal, or the battery dies, or you get it wet?
> 
> ...


Another of the anti-ebike crowd's red herring FUD.

People who don't ride ebikes have this weird concept that if an ebike runs out of power, the rider is somehow reduced to being a immobile object. A 50 lb ebike is nothing more or less than a 50 lb bike if the battery dies. Is it fun riding a 50 lb bike? No, but it isn't going to kill someone. I've ridden my eMTBs with the power off for miles, on purpose, and on flat ground or downhill, they are exactly the same as riding my enduro bike. Yes, they are a little slower on climbs, but it isn't a big deal. The fact that the ebike rider used less energy to get to where they are means they have more energy to get out of there if their battery dies or something else goes wrong. A rider on an analog bike can ride a trail they shouldn't be on, bonk, crash, or have a bike break just as easily, but no one ever points to the bike and blames it for someone doing something stupid or having bad luck. Its just the way it is. Be prepared.

The fact is that bringing ebikes into the backcountry is going to prevent more issues that it is going to cause.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Well, you're not a mind reader. Everyone has a responsibility to assess their own capabilities and live with the results. In my group of kayakers, I'm generally the least common denominator and it's MY responsibility to bow out if the river gets too gnarly, rather than put them on the hook for me. It's the same with lots of activities.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

honkinunit said:


> Another of the anti-ebike crowd's red herring FUD.
> 
> People who don't ride ebikes have this weird concept that if an ebike runs out of power, the rider is somehow reduced to being a immobile object. A 50 lb ebike is nothing more or less than a 50 lb bike if the battery dies. Is it fun riding a 50 lb bike? No, but it isn't going to kill someone. I've ridden my eMTBs with the power off for miles, on purpose, and on flat ground or downhill, they are exactly the same as riding my enduro bike. Yes, they are a little slower on climbs, but it isn't a big deal. The fact that the ebike rider used less energy to get to where they are means they have more energy to get out of there if their battery dies or something else goes wrong. A rider on an analog bike can ride a trail they shouldn't be on, bonk, crash, or have a bike break just as easily, but no one ever points to the bike and blames it for someone doing something stupid or having bad luck. Its just the way it is. Be prepared.
> 
> The fact is that bringing ebikes into the backcountry is going to prevent more issues that it is going to cause.


I'm not anti ebike, it's not a red herring, and you seem to have a chip on your shoulder.

If this hypothetical person you're describing needs (your scenario, remember?) this 50# e-assist bike to be able to ride with the group, by what magic are they suddenly able to propel it when the motor goes out?

I've ridden 50# bikes. For that matter I've ridden a 150# bike. You aren't getting anywhere fast, but you can get somewhere if you're patient. But probably not if you needed a motor to begin with, and then it goes away.


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## Outrider66 (Jan 30, 2018)

Regarding the actual topic of this thread: Moab - what a place to ride! That place is what got me started in mountain biking. I went out there from Atlanta 18 years ago, to go backpacking in Canyonlands NP. While in Moab, we rented Cannondales and rode Klondike (IIRC). I was hooked. Prior to that, I had owned a couple of big box store MTB wannabe bikes. When I got back, I bought an entry level Trek, and have owned a real mountain bike, ever since.

I went back the following year, bringing my daughter, who was 10 at the time, with me. We didn't do any biking, but just backpacked Needles in Canyonlands again. That is a trip she will never forget.

Moab can take credit for 2 of the most fun vacations I have ever had in my 53 years. I would love to go back out there again before I die. While I can still do things and really experience it, instead of just pulling up to overlooks in an RV.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Gold Bar is a blast. My first time was two summers ago, precisely on my 50th birthday. The forecast called for high 90s in the valley that day but I really wanted to ride it as it was a lifetime wish list thing The shuttle had only one load going out, at 11am. I would have preferred an early start but the only reason they had a shuttle going out at all was because a group of guys from somewhere back east was in town and requested a ride. 

By the time I reached that exposed climb up to the rim it was mid-afternoon, and with the west facing exposure the light-colored rock was reflecting the sun right into my face. It felt like at least 110F on the ascent. I was sweating super hard and was pretty tired by the time I got to the fun part following the rim. Some Jeepers rolled by at an intersection and one of them offered some water. Not being too proud to accept, I gladly said yes. He pulled a small bottle out of his cooler and it was ice F-ing cold. Water never tasted so good.

I went back earlier this spring with a friend and did it again, this time the temps were much more agreeable. 

I would not be too proud to access it via e-bike next time.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

mikesee said:


> I'm not anti ebike, it's not a red herring, and you seem to have a chip on your shoulder.
> 
> If this hypothetical person you're describing needs (your scenario, remember?) this 50# e-assist bike to be able to ride with the group, by what magic are they suddenly able to propel it when the motor goes out?
> 
> I've ridden 50# bikes. For that matter I've ridden a 150# bike. You aren't getting anywhere fast, but you can get somewhere if you're patient. But probably not if you needed a motor to begin with, and then it goes away.


Another ebike misconception: everyone riding an ebike "needs" it. Every single eMTB owner I know is an experienced MTB rider who is fit and can rip trails on a "regular" MTB. We choose to ride eMTBs because the are *fun*, they give us more riding in the same amount of time, and they allow us to clean steeps we couldn't possibly clean on a "regular" MTB. Another secret: they go downhill *better* than a regular MTB in many situations.

No one who has never ridden an MTB is dropping $5k-$12k on an eMTB as a first bike.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Outrider66 said:


> Regarding the actual topic of this thread: Moab - what a place to ride! That place is what got me started in mountain biking. I went out there from Atlanta 18 years ago, to go backpacking in Canyonlands NP. While in Moab, we rented Cannondales and rode Klondike (IIRC). I was hooked. Prior to that, I had owned a couple of big box store MTB wannabe bikes. When I got back, I bought an entry level Trek, and have owned a real mountain bike, ever since.
> 
> I went back the following year, bringing my daughter, who was 10 at the time, with me. We didn't do any biking, but just backpacked Needles in Canyonlands again. That is a trip she will never forget.
> 
> Moab can take credit for 2 of the most fun vacations I have ever had in my 53 years. I would love to go back out there again before I die. While I can still do things and really experience it, instead of just pulling up to overlooks in an RV.


You should go back just to be shocked at how much more crowded it has become.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

honkinunit said:


> Another ebike misconception: everyone riding an ebike "needs" it.


You might want to keep track of the things you say in threads, as it would prevent you from openly contradicting yourself in the same thread:



honkinunit said:


> In the future, when all of the trails out there are open, groups will be able to stay together by having the, ahem, less strong riders keep up.


It would also behoove you to not pick fights with people that are more or less in agreement with you.

Your choice.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

What happens when both strong and weak riders are all on the same e-bike and riding in the same group? Won't the weak riders still be considerably slower?


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> What happens when both strong and weak riders are all on the same e-bike and riding in the same group? Won't the weak riders still be considerably slower?


Great question. My buddies and I have have figured this out by using eTandem mtbs. Here's a pic of me getting some help from Buddy who's a much stronger rider. We did 60 miles of singletrack with 9000ft of climbing that day:


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> What happens when both strong and weak riders are all on the same e-bike and riding in the same group? Won't the weak riders still be considerably slower?


Pretty simple solution for the climbs, the stronger riders use ECO and the weaker riders use trail mode, everyone gets up the long climbs at about the same time, give or take a minute.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

mtbbiker said:


> Pretty simple solution for the climbs, the stronger riders use ECO and the weaker riders use trail mode, everyone gets up the long climbs at about the same time, give or take a minute.


Won't the weaker rider using more power result in a dead battery sooner?

With the secondary effect of now pedaling a 50lb bike, with no assist, and fatigued, weaker legs?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

So we're saying ebikes enabling noobs or less fit people to get in over their head isn't a possibility? That seems counterintuitive. Regardless if it's a mtn bike, emtb, motorcycle, or jeep rolling into town and renting one definitely ups the inexperienced quotient out on the trail. And by the way fuuuuukk side by sides. As far as I'm concerned Moab should ban those stupid things. They up the tool box quotient everywhere they are, prove me wrong.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Won't the weaker rider using more power result in a dead battery sooner?
> 
> With the secondary effect of now pedaling a 50lb bike, with no assist, and fatigued, weaker legs?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For someone as opinionated on Ebikes as you are, you really don't know much about them. All ebikes have different power settings. I'm most familiar with Shimano, I'll explain that one. Shimano has 3 power settings: ECO, Trail, & Boost. Those 3 settings can be customized to: 
ECO: low, med or high 
Trail: low, med or high
Boost: low, med or high

Set strong rider to any ECO mode and weaker rider to low Trail. Trail should be good for most people if mtbiking, 2+hrs, 20 to 25 miles and right around 3k ft of climbing. Just like any adventure, the person should know what trails they are hitting (mileage, elevation gains, trail difficulty, etc...).

Isn't pedaling any bike/ebike result in fatigued, weaker legs as the ride goes on? Any uninformed mtb or emtb, or hiker, hunter, dirt biker, 4x4 could easily get themselves in trouble? The key is planning and knowing what you are getting into, to help mitigate trouble that one might encounter, no?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

mtbbiker said:


> For someone as opinionated on Ebikes as you are, you really don't know much about them. All ebikes have different power settings. I'm most familiar with Shimano, I'll explain that one. Shimano has 3 power settings: ECO, Trail, & Boost. Those 3 settings can be customized to:
> ECO: low, med or high
> Trail: low, med or high
> Boost: low, med or high
> ...


Holy crap, man. I understand that they have multiple settings.

The stronger person is going to use less battery power (and more human power) to cover the same distance, at the same speed, as the weaker person, who is using more battery power (and less human power).

Unless the weaker of the two people has a magical, inexhaustible battery, yes, it will go flat sooner than the guy who is using less power. I don't know how you would argue otherwise.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Holy crap, man. I understand that they have multiple settings.
> 
> The stronger person is going to use less battery power (and more human power) to cover the same distance, at the same speed, as the weaker person, who is using more battery power (and less human power).
> 
> Unless the weaker of the two people has a magical, inexhaustible battery, yes, it will go flat sooner than the guy who is using less power. I don't know how you would argue otherwise.


You didn't read what I said did you? I'll try to make it simpler for you, low eco mode for stronger rider and low trail mode for the weaker rider. They'll climb about the same speed. Yes, the stronger rider will go further, but how much further do you think they'll go? Low Trail mode will go well over 2hrs, 20 to 25 miles in distance and easily climb over 3k. For most people, that's enough to get in great scenery, fun with their buddy's and have a blast on the bike without killing themselves. Maybe those miles are not enough for you, but I would imagine for most people, that's plenty of battery life.

Maybe it's hard for you to believe, but most of the ebike riders I know came from a mountain biking background. I honestly don't know any newbie to riding bikes that are now on ebikes.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> What happens when both strong and weak riders are all on the same e-bike and riding in the same group? Won't the weak riders still be considerably slower?


What usually happens when you have mixed fitness on a group ride? Same thing.

The main benefit is that everyone will make it through the ride without getting crushed, and after a "recharge," they'll be able to do it again the next day.


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

I thought this was a thread about old guys in Moab.... Why does it always evolve into an e-Bike advertisement?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Phillbo said:


> I thought this was a thread about old guys in Moab.... Why does it always evolve into an e-Bike advertisement?


Me too! All I did was leave for a week, and it's a friggin train wreck.

Seriously people, I finally brought the goods, posted a cool little story with pics and a few rotten apples show up to mess it all up.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

To take this in a slightly different direction:
I like the wilderness, and I like the idea of going for an epic 50+ mile ride through wild country. But I've never done it. All of my epic (for me) rides have been in fairly accessible locations. One of the wonderful things about a mountain bike (even an old-fashioned human powered one) is that you can cover in one day what would take 3-4 days hiking. But therein lies the problem. I've had enough mechanicals, crashes, and navigational f-ups to know that things can go bad in a hurry, e.g. the OTB and lost wife incidents referred to a few posts up in this thread. The reality is that some of these rides that we might enter into fairly casually actually should require a degree of preparation more akin to a 3-4 day backpacking trip, in terms of clothing, provision for getting water, etc. They probably should involve filing a "flight plan" with your family before you leave, and shouldn't involve on-the-fly route changes. It also might mean that you should be pretty risk-averse on your bike when you're far from the trail exit.


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## RooHarris (May 11, 2011)

paramount3 said:


> The reality is that some of these rides that we might enter into fairly casually actually should require a degree of preparation more akin to a 3-4 day backpacking trip, in terms of clothing, provision for getting water, etc. They probably should involve filing a "flight plan" with your family before you leave, and shouldn't involve on-the-fly route changes. It also might mean that you should be pretty risk-averse on your bike when you're far from the trail exit.


Good point! Unfortunately, there are many deaths attributed to ill preparations for riding Moab. See many articles on heat related deaths:

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...hUKEwi3l5CpgdblAhWSop4KHYH3BdIQ4dUDCAc&uact=5

Most people do not remember how two strong, young men lost their lives while riding Porcupine Rim trail in August of 1995. Both riders were from Iowa and had decided to go to Utah and ride PR trail in the August heat. https://www.dreamride.com/safety.html 
Getting spotty information from a local bike shop they ventured into the ride ill prepared. Each took one 20oz water bottle and quickly ran out half way through. Spotting water below them in ***** Bill canyon, they attempted to climb down to it. Both fell, died and were not discovered for over a week. It took a call to the Governor's office to get a search out for them. S&R folks had little to go on. Long story short: DO NOT ride in the Utah/Moab desert in summer heat with poor preparations. Anything over 90° is lame brained at best. Even the locals do not ride for the most part in summer heat. Spring and fall are ideal, but advanced preparations are still necessary to enjoy the beauty and grandeur that the red rock country offers. Rule of thumb: ONE gallon of water minimum/day. Added electrolytes per liter are as important as the water.

Mountain biking is a dangerous sport. 
Moab is a good place to find out.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

RooHarris said:


> Good point! Unfortunately, there are many deaths attributed to ill preparations for riding Moab. See many articles on heat related deaths:
> https://www.google.com/search?sourc...hUKEwi3l5CpgdblAhWSop4KHYH3BdIQ4dUDCAc&uact=5
> 
> Most people do not remember how two strong, young men in their 20's lost their lives while riding Porcupine Rim trail in August of 1995. Both riders were from Iowa and had decided to go to Utah and ride PR trail in the August heat. Getting spotty information from a local bike shop they ventured into the ride ill prepared. Each took one 20oz water bottle and quickly ran out half way through. Spotting water below them in ***** Bill canyon, they attempted to climb down to it. Both fell, died and were not discovered for over a week. It took a call to the Governor's office to get a search out for them. S&R folks had little to go on. Long story short: DO NOT ride in the Utah/Moab desert in summer heat with poor preparations. Anything over 90° is lame brained at best. Even the locals do not ride for the most part in summer heat. Spring and fall are ideal, but advanced preparations are still necessary to enjoy the beauty and grandeur that the red rock country offers. Rule of thumb: ONE gallon of water minimum/day. Added electrolytes per liter are as important as the water.
> ...


I recall the story of those two boys as I had just moved to Iowa and it made the news out there. I remember them being even younger, like 16.

One of the former regular posters here on MTBR lost his daughter on Porc Rim. That was especially harsh reading his posts about it since he was familiar to everyone on this site at the time.

https://moabtimes.com/2005/06/23/68799-second-dehydration-death-in-two-months/


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## RooHarris (May 11, 2011)

Nat said:


> By the time I reached that exposed climb up to the rim it was mid-afternoon, and with the west facing exposure the light-colored rock was reflecting the sun right into my face. It felt like at least 110F on the ascent. I was sweating super hard and was pretty tired by the time I got to the fun part following the rim. Some Jeepers rolled by at an intersection and one of them offered some water. Not being too proud to accept, I gladly said yes. He pulled a small bottle out of his cooler and it was ice F-ing cold. Water never tasted so good.
> 
> I went back earlier this spring with a friend and did it again, this time the temps were much more agreeable.
> 
> I would not be too proud to access it via e-bike next time.


You were very lucky...


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Me too! All I did was leave for a week, and it's a friggin train wreck.
> 
> Seriously people, I finally brought the goods, posted a cool little story with pics and a few rotten apples show up to mess it all up.


One poster mentions ebike and the thread is guarantee to go slightly out of control! 
But nice story, great ride, brings back good memories of Moab. It's been for me easily over 15yrs since I've been there. We spent a week and back than, you rarely ran into any other trail users. I need to make it back! Thanks for the ride report!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

RooHarris said:


> You were very lucky...


I was also very well prepared. I had plenty of water left by the time I hit Portal but I wasn't going to turn down an offer for more.


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## pitdaddy (Aug 6, 2013)

Anytime I ride with someone they are usually stronger and faster than me. They usually let me lead. Guess it's a trend I'll keep.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

pitdaddy said:


> Anytime I ride with someone they are usually stronger and faster than me. They usually let me lead. Guess it's a trend I'll keep.


I was just talking to my wife about this very thing, but my issue is finding folks who are not only capable but willing.

I rode Five Miles of Hell last weekend by myself for the first time. It was fine, I was prepared, but if I had to wait for a partner I can only think of one person who might join me and our timing was off.

If I waited around for riding partners, I'd be waiting more than riding.

Honestly, this is not just a mountain biking problem, I had the same problems when I climbed, WW boated, BC skied, and ran ultras. Most people; like my partner on Portal, just don't have the desire to push limits.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I was just talking to my wife about this very thing, but my issue is finding folks who are not only capable but willing.
> 
> I rode Five Miles of Hell last weekend by myself for the first time. It was fine, I was prepared, but if I had to wait for a partner I can only think of one person who might join me and our timing was off.
> 
> ...


So true, and even more so as we age. Despite the exponential increase in bike capability.

I first rode Portal in 1989. It's changed a lot since then.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

rockman said:


> So true, and even more so as we age. Despite the exponential increase in bike capability.
> 
> I first rode Portal in 1989. It's changed a lot since then.


I think the problem is more willingness than capabilities. This buddy ^, he looks at a hill and all he sees is work, it's mostly mental, he can ride tech. I got another buddy who looks at a hill and sees a challenge, but he doesn't ride tech (yet).

If I could put these two together ....

Maybe it's generational, maybe it's human nature, but people just think too much and it makes them question, which leads to inaction.

I'm not sure why anyone would ask why. Seriously, who friggin cares!

It's life, it's a thing, life is a collection of things, so just do it.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Nice post. Brings back memories of a long day back in 2005 when a friend and I looped Old Hwy 191 / Potash Road / Poison Spider / Gold Bar / Gemini, during which the temps reached 108F and my buddy had a mechanical. It was a memorable day. My avatar photo was taken that day after we removed his broken chainring on the trail.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Nurse Ben said:


> If I waited around for riding partners, I'd be waiting more than riding.


Yep! Same here. I can be on my bike and rolling in about ten minutes. When I have a window of opportunity I go, and I manage to go mountain biking 4-5 days per week, skiing 4-5 days per week. I sometimes go on group rides just so I don't turn into an old, angry loner but man, by the time everyone can get their collective **** together I could've been finished.

I travel a fair amount for both bike trips and ski trips because I'm comfortable traveling solo. Trying to get a bunch of guys to go on a bike (or ski) trip takes so much coordination and I'd not go enough if I had to wait for everyone's pieces to fall into place.

As an aside, my wife has a friend, a woman in her early 60s, who is fully uncomfortable doing anything alone. I mean, going to lunch or a movie alone is just about traumatizing to her. "What will people think?" is her reason. My wife finally encouraged her enough to go for a walk in the park alone. She texted my wife from her hotel on a trip that she finally went to dinner alone, but in order to get enough courage to dine alone she ended up drinking two martinis before the dinner and three glasses of wine with to settle her nerves. She could barely remember what she ate!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

sgltrak said:


> My avatar photo was taken that day after we removed his broken chainring.


Cool! That is genuinely meaningful.


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## rmac (Oct 26, 2004)

Enjoying this thread (outside of the ebike derail). I had a bad Portal experience this year that fits right in. Despite several Moab trips I had never ridden Portal and badly underestimated it this year. In some ways I was unlucky but also made several mistakes. I ride a lot (3-4 times per week with one ride per week of 3-4 hours with significant tech and climbing), run, gym ++. I ride alone a lot for the same reasons as others on this thread but ride Moab with two riding buddies who are a lot younger. In previous Moab trips I was always the strongest of my group and proud of it (mistake #1 – over-confidence in my abilities). I approach Moab with the attitude of doing as much riding as I can, big rides or two rides per day (this hadn’t torpedoed me before but was mistake #2): Coming from Denver, we started early and stopped in Fruita for a ride and when we got to Moab rode Ahab, Rockstacker and Jacksons – a fairly aggressive day of riding the day before riding Portal. The next day the shuttle dropped us off at around 11:00 at the top of Portal (June 1) – Like Nat this was pretty late for the beginning of June. We spent too much time sessioning some of the fun sections leading to Gold Bar – mistake #3 – hitting the ‘fun’ climb at the hottest part of the day. We stopped for lunch and I immediately started feeling a little sick from lunch (not sure if it was the lunch or just eating when it was really hot). It was a bad time to start feeling sick and sucked all the energy out of me (bad!). We didn’t know the trail well enough to know if there was a bail out option (mistake #4) and I don’t think my pride even let me consider it (mistake #5). Once we got to the rim, I was feeling like crap and didn’t get to enjoy any of the fun sections; I ended up walking most of them because I was feeling so weak. On the road back to Moab my legs were cramping up really badly. I did have 4 liters of water, salt/electrolyte tables and didn’t run out of water but I could have really been in trouble and on the exposed sections of trail I had to be super careful. Another thing that might have been a factor was that I took a nasty OTB at the bottom of horse thief bench and banged up my elbow pretty good; it’s possible that that crash also affected me for the next day’s Portal ride. Not a great experience. We did the Brands trail later that evening and TWE the next day – probably way too much riding.


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## pitdaddy (Aug 6, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> I was just talking to my wife about this very thing, but my issue is finding folks who are not only capable but willing.
> 
> I rode Five Miles of Hell last weekend by myself for the first time. It was fine, I was prepared, but if I had to wait for a partner I can only think of one person who might join me and our timing was off.
> 
> ...


95% of my rides I'm solo. Now that it gets dark @5:30 I'm trying to get a group together for a weeknight ride. Weekends I'm off work so I can ride during daylight hours.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Since it's a bunch of old guys posting in this thread and fading memories...or old guys making new ones...one of my favorite days on Poison Spider Mesa was fixing a wallowed out square taper crank the old fashioned way. ~1992 or 93.









Back then Portal was still mostly dirt and didn't come with quite the same risk-reward factor as today. Pretty easy to clean albeit with a lift and carry over the death rock. Moab sure has changed. Portal and the end of Porcupine was about it for singletrack. There was a short stint on Pritchet combing back around to Hunters. And of course Jacksons but that was still a cow trail. Otherwise all the singletrack was in the LaSals.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I like to session the burlier side lines on gold bar, but only if I'm feeling it. There have been times I didn't even bother looking at them. I too blew myself up once on the climb to the rim. Usually once at the rim I'll eat and hydrate and regroup for gold bar, but this time I really never recuperated. Got through gold bar just fine but was really feeling it for the little double track climb before dropping down to the Portal entrance. Ended up walking stuff on Portal I'd usually ride as I was just smoked. Typically cap a ride off like that with beers and high fives but this time just drank a bunch of water and laid down on one of the picnic tables at the campground exit. I made the mistake of trying to hang with a stronger rider for the climb and payed the price. This year I made the climb but just took it at my pace and never red lined, lesson learned.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

^That is an awesome picture and story to match!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

A small fox crossed the trail about 20' in front of me on Gold Bar rim. That was seriously cool. I had no idea that foxes lived out there. I had only seen cows and lizards up until that point.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

rockman said:


> View attachment 1291385


Is that a titanium Yo Eddy on the right?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

pitdaddy said:


> 95% of my rides I'm solo. Now that it gets dark @5:30 I'm trying to get a group together for a weeknight ride. Weekends I'm off work so I can ride during daylight hours.


I've switched to am rides before work, colder, but at least it's sunnyish.

Some day I'll cut back on my hours and take lunch so I can ride middday.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

sgltrak said:


> Is that a titanium Yo Eddy on the right?


I think it's a Litespeed but could be a Merlin. I think it was sub 20lb with all the anodized purple naughty bits and ti fork. The guy still owns Absolute Bikes here in Flagstaff. The bike being hammered on is a Spec Rock Hopper.

I was on a Bridgestone MB1 back in those days.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

rmac said:


> . Another thing that might have been a factor was that I took a nasty OTB at the bottom of horse thief bench and banged up my elbow pretty good; it's possible that that crash also affected me for the next day's Portal ride. Not a great experience. We did the Brands trail later that evening and TWE the next day - probably way too much riding.


I've been going to Moab 1-2x a year for the past 10-15 years and this sounds like my ride plans. Ride as much as possible between dawn and dusk (often solo) for three or four days straight and rest when I get home. Fortunately I have yet to have a bad experience like the one you described, but I know it's only one episode of food poisoning, or heat exhaustion, or a bad tumble, or mechanical away at anytime. I go prepared, but sometimes I forget. Thanks for the reminder.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

rockman said:


> I think it's a Litespeed but could be a Merlin. I think it was sub 20lb with all the anodized purple naughty bits and ti fork. The guy still owns Absolute Bikes here in Flagstaff. The bike being hammered on is a Spec Rock Hopper.
> 
> I was on a Bridgestone MB1 back in those days.
> 
> View attachment 1291453


Great photo, Joe! Still can't believe we haven't ridden together yet. The more I read your stuff and follow your rides, the more I think we're MTB kindred spirits.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Nat said:


> Yep! Same here. I can be on my bike and rolling in about ten minutes. When I have a window of opportunity I go, and I manage to go mountain biking 4-5 days per week, skiing 4-5 days per week. I sometimes go on group rides just so I don't turn into an old, angry loner but man, by the time everyone can get their collective **** together I could've been finished!


I can identify with you and Ben on this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

rockman said:


> I was on a Bridgestone MB1 back in those days.
> 
> View attachment 1291453


Me too. I worked for a Bridgestone dealer, so I had a 1988, a 1989, and a 1990 MB-1.
Looks like we had similar tastes in both bikes and helmets.

Moab - May 1991








Breckenridge - July 1991


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I had that same helmet!


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Nat said:


> View attachment 1291551


Where are you headed?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

WHALENARD said:


> Where are you headed?


I think I got about another half pedal stroke after the pic then was all done. I was reproducing a photo of Zap Espinosa in Mountain Bike Action riding up the same slab of rock off of Sand Flats Road.

I guess I didn't really have the same helmet (my red/white one was a Specialized) but I wanted an excuse to add my vintage Moab pics. Those were c. 1991, Cannondale SM1000.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> but little did we know that Poison Spider would involve miles of walking though deep sand


I feel for you, I truly do, but man, Poison Spider is an absolutely infamous sand pit. Sorry you had to learn that the hard way and glad your buddy made it out alive. At least the worst experiences make the best stories!



honkinunit said:


> No one who has never ridden an MTB is dropping $5k-$12k on an eMTB as a first bike.


So the many, many squids you encounter around here riding shiny new eMTBs in jeans, sneaks and no helmet are experienced riders just adding another bike to their stable? Interdasting....



rockman said:


> Since it's a bunch of old guys posting in this thread and fading memories...or old guys making new ones...one of my favorite days on Poison Spider Mesa was fixing a wallowed out square taper crank the old fashioned way. ~1992 or 93.
> 
> View attachment 1291385


That pic is awesome!


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

sgltrak said:


> Me too. I worked for a Bridgestone dealer, so I had a 1988, a 1989, and a 1990 MB-1.
> Looks like we had similar tastes in both bikes and helmets.
> 
> View attachment 1291547
> ...


And Diadora shoes? I broke three of those frames. I hung onto the last one ~93 after it broke which was the last year before they stopped making bikes. I had Joe Murray weld it back together in the early 2000s. Restored it thinking I would actually ride it some but now way. One and done. For the life of me I can't see how we rode bikes with 400 mm bars or 72 degree head angles, much less shred. So, it resides on the wall. Bullseye hubs, Mavic Oxygen rims, Cook cranks, Critical Racing brakes, Suntour XC Pro, blah, blah....this thread is getting good


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Nat said:


> I think I got about another half pedal stroke after the pic then was all done. I was reproducing a photo of Zap Espinosa in Mountain Bike Action riding up the same slab of rock off of Sand Flats Road.
> 
> I guess I didn't really have the same helmet (my red/white one was a Specialized) but I wanted an excuse to add my vintage Moab pics. Those were c. 1991, Cannondale SM1000.


That is known as Diving Board Rock.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Nat said:


> A small fox crossed the trail about 20' in front of me on Gold Bar rim. That was seriously cool. I had no idea that foxes lived out there. I had only seen cows and lizards up until that point.


I once saw a fox on the far end of Slickrock, running across a big expanse of open rock.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

honkinunit said:


> That is known as Diving Board Rock.


There is a 3' - 4' drop to flat on Porcupine Rim that is also known as the Diving Board.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

evasive said:


> I once saw a fox on the far end of Slickrock, running across a big expanse of open rock.


It is not unusual to see Desert Bighorn Sheep anywhere north of Moab. We saw a couple while riding Bartlett Wash and while camping out by Tombstone Rock once. Before Highway 191 was widened and the traffic became insane, they used to hang around the Arches entrance road in winter.

Mountain Lions have been seen along the river on Kane Creek road, as well as bears. A bear attacked a camper in a tent out by Dewey Bridge last summer. Lots of deer and turkeys around town and out by Ken's Lake.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

sgltrak said:


> There is a 3' - 4' drop to flat on Porcupine Rim that is also known as the Diving Board.


Yes, lots of collarbones have been broken on that.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Nat said:


> I was reproducing a photo of Zap Espinosa in Mountain Bike Action riding up the same slab of rock off of Sand Flats Road.


That's funny. I studied that pic for a bit as I was certain I had seen it before but couldn't quite place it. All these pics are Mountain Bike Action worthy circa 1989, love it.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Is there a group that gets together and rides these "vintage" bikes in Moab ever? Complete with foam helmets, fingerless gloves, and toe cages? If not there should be, how great would that be?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Lots of Moab love here, well deserved, and though Moab is in the process of being "loved to death", there are still place in Moab that are worth riding and don't generate crowds.

Last weekend I rode Miners Run (West of Green River on I70), FMOH (that's another story), and North 40 (Bar M). I saw no one on Miners Run, I saw six motos on FMOH, and I saw maybe two people on North 40; North 40 was a Sunday morning at one of the most popular trailheads in Moab.

But yeah, Moab is getting too popular, fortunately there are alternatives


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

WHALENARD said:


> Is there a group that gets together and rides these "vintage" bikes in Moab ever? Complete with foam helmets, fingerless gloves, and toe cages? If not there should be, how great would that be?


I probably wouldn't use the word "great", but it would be silly and challenging.

I loved my mesh pigskin gloves


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

I'll share my (not-so-secret locally) shame: one of my senior photos. We actually used the to promote an enduro series, and one of my friends half-joked about using it on a homebrew label. 









What I find most embarrassing now is my young naïveté about the yellow jersey. Oh well- it's still funny.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

evasive said:


> I'll share my (not-so-secret locally) shame: one of my senior photos. We actually used the to promote an enduro series, and one of my friends half-joked about using it on a homebrew label.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh my, look at that "steer tube"! That's an awesome pic!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

evasive said:


> I'll share my (not-so-secret locally) shame: one of my senior photos. We actually used the to promote an enduro series, and one of my friends half-joked about using it on a homebrew label.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, that photo is EPIC!!! Props for being brave enough to post it!



WHALENARD said:


> Is there a group that gets together and rides these "vintage" bikes in Moab ever? Complete with foam helmets, fingerless gloves, and toe cages? If not there should be, how great would that be?


Count me out! I have fond memories of riding there back-in-the-day but knowing what 160mm of quality suspension feels like on that terrain now... no more rigid for me.



sgltrak said:


> There is a 3' - 4' drop to flat on Porcupine Rim that is also known as the Diving Board.


 Yep. My first attempt, c.2006. Yeaaaaaah...









I'm MUCH more adept at it now. Thank god.



evasive said:


> I once saw a fox on the far end of Slickrock, running across a big expanse of open rock.


 That's cool.



honkinunit said:


> That is known as Diving Board Rock.


 Cool! I did not know that.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

104F in the shade at the top of Poison Spider by the Portal drop in - May 20, 2006.


















rockman said:


> And Diadora shoes? I broke three of those frames. I hung onto the last one ~93 after it broke which was the last year before they stopped making bikes. I had Joe Murray weld it back together in the early 2000s. Restored it thinking I would actually ride it some but now way. One and done. For the life of me I can't see how we rode bikes with 400 mm bars or 72 degree head angles, much less shred. So, it resides on the wall. Bullseye hubs, Mavic Oxygen rims, Cook cranks, Critical Racing brakes, Suntour XC Pro, blah, blah....this thread is getting good


I wore Nike MTB shoes back then because there was a factory store nearby and I wore the same size as the salesman samples, so I could buy them cheap when the new samples were issued.

My last MB-1 build used Specialized flag cranks, dia-compe 986 brakes, diacompe SS-7 brake levers, Suntour XC-Pro pedals, etc from a MB-Zip. I also used a Campy road bike front derailleur for faster shifts and I built 2 sets of wheels for it, one set with Bullseye hubs and one set with NukeProof carbon hubs. I still have the Nuke Proofs and they are still rideable (no broken flanges).

In 2014 I bought another 1989 MB-1 out of nostaligia, but hated the ride and sold it pretty quickly. My tastes had changed a lot in 17 years.



honkinunit said:


> It is not unusual to see Desert Bighorn Sheep anywhere north of Moab. We saw a couple while riding Bartlett Wash and while camping out by Tombstone Rock once. Before Highway 191 was widened and the traffic became insane, they used to hang around the Arches entrance road in winter.
> 
> Mountain Lions have been seen along the river on Kane Creek road, as well as bears. A bear attacked a camper in a tent out by Dewey Bridge last summer. Lots of deer and turkeys around town and out by Ken's Lake.


We saw this guy near the intersection of Gold Bar and Gemini










WHALENARD said:


> Is there a group that gets together and rides these "vintage" bikes in Moab ever? Complete with foam helmets, fingerless gloves, and toe cages? If not there should be, how great would that be?


The Pro's Closet does that in Boulder each year around Labor Day. It is a fun day, but only for the day. I am not really interested in riding my vintage bikes much more than a part of one day at a time.



evasive said:


> I'll share my (not-so-secret locally) shame: one of my senior photos. We actually used the to promote an enduro series, and one of my friends half-joked about using it on a homebrew label.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is fantastic! Glad I didn't get my first MTB until after my senior photos were taken or I might have had something similar. Glad you had the guts to share that one.



Nat said:


> Yep. My first attempt, c.2006. Yeaaaaaah...
> View attachment 1291649
> 
> I'm MUCH more adept at it now. Thank god.


Yikes! Cool shot. Hope it ended well.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

sgltrak said:


> 104F in the shade at the top of Poison Spider by the Portal drop in - May 20, 2006.
> View attachment 1291671
> 
> 
> ...


I spy a Moots YBB? My 1997 YBB is also on my garage wall. I did ride that until a couple of years ago but am having too much fun on full squish and bigger wheels.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

rockman said:


> I spy a Moots YBB? My 1997 YBB is also on my garage wall. I did ride that until a couple of years ago but am having too much fun on full squish and bigger wheels.


Good eye. You spotted two of them. My buddy's 2005 in the background and my 1997 in the foreground. My 1997 has been converted to disc brakes and 700x35 wheels and is doing duty as a gravel grinder now. I also have a 2011 29'er version of the YBB that is hanging on the wall since I cracked it on Porcupine Rim last spring.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Some great photos--I didn't realize that people had cameras back then.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> Some great photos--I didn't realize that people had cameras back then.


Seriously? The bigger issue was how to carry it. The water hydration pack hadn't been invented yet. No pockets in baggie shorts either unless you rode in cutoff blue jeans. So, it had to fit in a jersey pocket. There were fanny packs but much more bulky and uncomfortable to ride with than today's version. I think the first Camelback came out in 1995.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

We carried our camera on a mule but the most challenging part was keeping the flash powder dry.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Yeah, that's what I was imagining. Somehow early 1990s MTB photos look almost as old as photos of pioneers in covered wagons moving West.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

rockman said:


> Seriously? The bigger issue was how to carry it. The water hydration pack hadn't been invented yet. No pockets in baggie shorts either unless you rode in cutoff blue jeans. So, it had to fit in a jersey pocket. There were fanny packs but much more bulky and uncomfortable to ride with than today's version. I think the first Camelback came out in 1995.


Camelbaks were invented in 1989. I bought my first in around 1991. Back then, they were only 70oz, and basically a plastic bag with a bite-valve tube in a little black neoprene pouch (just a neoprene tube with Velcro closure at the top) and very crappy, thin nylon web shoulder straps. I used to shove a 26x1.9" tube and a QuikStik in with the bladder.

I just bought Yet Another Camelbak (YAC as my wife calls it.). I've had at least 25 "hydration systems". Probably more. I was looking over the latest one, called a K.U.D.U. and it is really impressive how much thought they put into something so seemingly simple. It has a flexible nylon back protector plate buried in it, a tool roll, a weather cover (basically a raincoat for your Camelbak), it can carry a full face helmet (for enduro), and the newer bladders are really well thought out. The bite valve finally has a fool proof shutoff, the tube can be easily removed for cleaning, it has a baffle inside of the bladder to keep the liquid from sloshing around, a huge water opening that will fit ice, and a great system for "hanging" the bladder inside of the Camelbak itself. Camelbak makes more revenue selling to the military than they do to mountain bikers, and they have the hydration system down to an art and science. I guess $20 Million dollar government contracts will do that.

Unfortunately, those government contracts have jacked the high end Camelbaks up to $200. Ouch!


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

honkinunit said:


> Camelbaks were invented in 1989. I bought my first in around 1991. Back then, they were only 70oz, and basically a plastic bag with a bite-valve tube in a little black neoprene pouch (just a neoprene tube with Velcro closure at the top) and very crappy, thin nylon web shoulder straps. I used to shove a 26x1.9" tube and a QuikStik in with the bladder.
> 
> I just bought Yet Another Camelbak (YAC as my wife calls it.). I've had at least 25 "hydration systems". Probably more. I was looking over the latest one, called a K.U.D.U. and it is really impressive how much thought they put into something so seemingly simple. It has a flexible nylon back protector plate buried in it, a tool roll, a weather cover (basically a raincoat for your Camelbak), it can carry a full face helmet (for enduro), and the newer bladders are really well thought out. The bite valve finally has a fool proof shutoff, the tube can be easily removed for cleaning, it has a baffle inside of the bladder to keep the liquid from sloshing around, a huge water opening that will fit ice, and a great system for "hanging" the bladder inside of the Camelbak itself. Camelbak makes more revenue selling to the military than they do to mountain bikers, and they have the hydration system down to an art and science. I guess $20 Million dollar government contracts will do that.
> 
> Unfortunately, those government contracts have jacked the high end Camelbaks up to $200. Ouch!


Looks like you are correct on that. I should say it was more like 94 or 95 when I could get my hands on one. Not sure they were that readily available early on? Can't remember but I did the jersey pocket thing with pump attached to the bike. But yes, the pinnacle of the outdoor industry when the brand is synonymous with the product. Folks don't ask if you remembered to grab your water hydration pack, rather they ask if you remembered your camelback. That said, I've tried a few others and lots of companies are making nice packs.


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