# Charging while camping



## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

I camp regularly two or three nights in a row in a 4 wheel pop top camper. We generally camp dispersed - outside of campgrounds and almost never in commercial campgrounds. To get in three or four rides, I need to be able to charge the battery for the bike each niight. I have a Giant etrance - the charger draws 4 amps at 120 volts. Using the truck to charge the battery or the camper electrical system with an inverter would require a huge inverter. 4 amps at 120 V requires at least 40 amps at 12V or number 10 or 8 wires - very heavy wires and a load the trucks electrical system will not handle. Using solar panels would require at least 5 @ 100 watt panels under ideal conditions, again impractical.

My solution to date is the run my honda EU 1000 generator for hours at a time and put up with the fumes and noise for those hours. I'm also going to buy an extra battery to get two days of charge.

Anyone have any ideas?


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Get a LiIon battery bank like the ones they sell now that can take the place of a genset. Calculate the amount of Ah's you think you might need and get the corresponding size. You could also trickle charge it off a single solar panel and use it for part of your camping scene.


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## Dirtrider127 (Sep 17, 2010)

You can look into getting a "power generator" like a EcoFlow Delta, Jackery, Goal Zero, etc..
I had a EcoFlow in my Chevy Express van conversion and charged my eBike up twice per day. It recharged off 4 100W panels just fine. I'm about done with my ProMaster van conversion and built my own system that is a huge improvement but it costs more and it's a bigger install. That EcoFlow can be packed up easily and taken anywhere. Portable panels can be had fairly cheaply now too.
This would do what you need and give you power for other needs too.
Good luck


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

Pedal powered generator!

I'm going to try charging my e-bike with my Yamaha inverter type 1000 watt generator sometime. I think it would be viable, and in my case we might charge several bikes at once if it works.

You can charge it off the vehicle, but I'm hesitant to be using the power of my primary ride home when I'm in the middle of nowhere. I've built stereo systems that drew over 200amps, but that required multiple batteries and a high output alternator with #0 wire run throughout the vehicle.

My current camping vehicles have multiple batteries for running winches and whatnot, but I wouldn't want to leave my vehicle idling nor would I want to draw my batteries down that far.


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

telemike said:


> My solution to date is the run my honda EU 1000 generator for hours at a time and put up with the fumes and noise for those hours.


I know someone will say it, but why not a small motorbike? And this is not an anti e-bike sentiment, but a time/cost thing. I think EVs are great, but no one (here) will buy one if they can't charge at home. At some point in the wilderness needing a decent amount of electricity is probably a downside of the direction we are going.

If you've been able to drive the vehicle into these places, do these places then have a ban on using a motorbike? Notwithstanding the usual actual moto arguements, a CRF150 for example is still considerably heavier than any e-bike, can't just lift onto a rack, isn't silent, and it is well, a motorbike. But surely at some point you either spend absolutely heaps on keeping the e-bike charged, or just go without it?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Just charge at a charging tree.


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## RM Rilke (5 mo ago)

A good lithium power station like a goal zero yeti works great for me. Folding panels are not that expensive on Amazon. I have a yeti 1000x with 2 100 watt Rock bros folding and a 180 watt solid on my camper roof. Having a refrigerator box at camp instead of ice and a cooler is worth it’s weight in gold. I will never use a cooler again. You can run a fan, lights, sound, charge devices, even an electric hot water/shower set up if you know what you are doing. I run a microwave in my four wheel camper. No problem. Camping with a power station is great. Fossil fuels suck. As a bonus, you can charge an ebike battery. You can even run/charge stuff at the house in a power outage, or just use free electrons from the panels all the time for stuff. You don’t need anything crazy for just a battery. They charge so slowly it wouldn’t take much.


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

Buy more additional batteries. Buy some decent solar panels. Put it all together. You have a flexible and adaptable system that works for the bike, the camper, or both depending on your requirements.


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

Jayem said:


> Just charge at a charging tree.
> 
> View attachment 2002733


Does that work all the time, or only when the sap is running?


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## pdqmach26 (Jul 24, 2011)

telemike said:


> I camp regularly two or three nights in a row in a 4 wheel pop top camper. We generally camp dispersed - outside of campgrounds and almost never in commercial campgrounds. To get in three or four rides, I need to be able to charge the battery for the bike each niight. I have a Giant etrance - the charger draws 4 amps at 120 volts. Using the truck to charge the battery or the camper electrical system with an inverter would require a huge inverter. 4 amps at 120 V requires at least 40 amps at 12V or number 10 or 8 wires - very heavy wires and a load the trucks electrical system will not handle. Using solar panels would require at least 5 @ 100 watt panels under ideal conditions, again impractical.
> 
> My solution to date is the run my honda EU 1000 generator for hours at a time and put up with the fumes and noise for those hours. I'm also going to buy an extra battery to get two days of charge.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?


I think your calculations are incorrect. No way would you need 500 watts of solar. One 100 watt panel should charge your batteries. 4WC usually puts 2 90amphour batteries w/ a 2000 watt inverter in the rig. This will be plenty to charge your ebike. Get a Victron controller and a 100 watt panel to keep the entire system topped off. If you need more info, go to wanderthewest.com.


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

pdqmach26 said:


> I think your calculations are incorrect. No way would you need 500 watts of solar. One 100 watt panel should charge your batteries. 4WC usually puts 2 90amphour batteries w/ a 2000 watt inverter in the rig. This will be plenty to charge your ebike. Get a Victron controller and a 100 watt panel to keep the entire system topped off. If you need more info, go to wanderthewest.com.


I think he's getting the 500 watts as the panels required to literally power the charger, W = A x V. It ignores that you could trickle charge a battery all day whilst out riding, and then charge from the battery in the evening.


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## Dirtrider127 (Sep 17, 2010)

pdqmach26 said:


> I think your calculations are incorrect. No way would you need 500 watts of solar. One 100 watt panel should charge your batteries.



Having used a Eco Flow myself to charge my Levo for over a year, I would have to respectfully disagree. I had 3 100w panels wired in series and it just wasn't enough to top it off before the sun sets. Keep in mind, the day only produces limited hours in perfect conditions, add in clouds, etc which diminish it further. Most systems never give you what they are rated at either.
I added a 4th panel, wired them in series/parallel and it rocked with 400W and this wiring change. If all you had to draw from was the eBike, maybe, if it's going to charge all day long but I'm sure if you have power there, other items will be plugged in too. My bike would draw 220 watts for about 2 1/2 hrs with about 25-30% of battery left. Toss in a light or two, cell phone, BT devices and you go lower & lower.
Car inverters probably will not charge your bike, or at least the 2 I tried wouldn't do it and it sucked the life outta the vehicle battery. Car lead acid batteries aren't designed for this use either. Be very careful if doing this option. Oh, and bring a jumper box with you, just in case.


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## shadowsports (May 10, 2009)

Generator surrounded with styrafoam blocks. Extension cord. You'll barely hear it. Runs everything, coffee maker, hairdryer, eBike, TV.

We are heavily invested in solar also. Works very well. Its contained and quiet. 

Only downside to camping these days, when you leave for hours, even in remote areas is theft.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I use a bluetti lifepo4 battery and a 200w folding solar panel. My wife and I both have ebikes so I use that setup to charge both of them while we are stationary. Fortunately for me, she doesn't weigh anything and she's very efficient on power usage on the bike so it's easy to keep her charged up. A bit harder for me as i do solo excursions thrown in so I'm typically hammering the battery. The fact that we are both using the same ebikes which utilize the same range extender batteries makes it easy for me to balance charging the non-removable internal batteries vs the range extenders. this is one instance where Orbea's scheme of the rise depleting the range extender battery first before consuming the built in is convenient.

When we are going down the road, I have what equates to a dual inverter setup for power. The bluetti battery can be charged with either DC 12v @ 100w from the vehicle or through an DC/AC inverter which will let me use the 200w fast charger. This allows me to charge the bikes and the power station at max supply while driving down the road and I can recharge everything (both ebikes and the power station) from stone dead to 100% in under 4 hours. That is an extremely rare circumstance, but it is nice knowing that with my setup, I basically have 2 days of full ebike battery depletion and hammering while stationary and I can recovery that to full with a short 4 hour drive to the next location. 

I do also carry an extra quiet honda generator for those rare times we end up **** out of luck... but between the power station, the solar panels and the ac/dc charging while moving, I've yet to run into a problem.


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

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This is the Ecoflow set up I have. I've used it flawlessly to charge up the ebike and then set up the solar panels during the day while riding to recharge the power station. I can charge both my wife and my ebikes easily multiple times with this method. The solar doesn't fully recharge the power station during the day if I charge up both ebikes, but it gets a pretty good recharge. Larger solar panels would be even better. I don't use the power station for much else while camping since I mostly use lanterns for light and cook with propane. It's a lot more expensive than a generator, but the noise of a generator running most of the night would bug me.


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## RM Rilke (5 mo ago)

telemike said:


> I camp regularly two or three nights in a row in a 4 wheel pop top camper. We generally camp dispersed - outside of campgrounds and almost never in commercial campgrounds. To get in three or four rides, I need to be able to charge the battery for the bike each niight. I have a Giant etrance - the charger draws 4 amps at 120 volts. Using the truck to charge the battery or the camper electrical system with an inverter would require a huge inverter. 4 amps at 120 V requires at least 40 amps at 12V or number 10 or 8 wires - very heavy wires and a load the trucks electrical system will not handle. Using solar panels would require at least 5 @ 100 watt panels under ideal conditions, again impractical.
> 
> My solution to date is the run my honda EU 1000 generator for hours at a time and put up with the fumes and noise for those hours. I'm also going to buy an extra battery to get two days of charge.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?


I didn’t read your post very well and my answer was not on point. I gather your 4WC has the stock electrical system with a 12v system and propane. It may have the solar kit which includes an external Scamp plug on the rear and maybe a Scamp solar charge controller. If it does, remember that Scamp uses a plug that looks exactly like an SAE plug but the polarity is reversed. If it has the plug, the problem it is much more simple as you can just add an external panel and upgrade the battery situation. Without the solar system, it’s possible to swap out the AGMs for Li and add the stuff to run it, but as you say, that could be a bit more expensive and labor intensive. You may need to run pass throughs in the roof (ouch) and wall. It may need a new inverter, charge controller, and a fused 110 plug. Maybe the stuff you have will work. The batteries generally have the charge controller wired in. 2 90 amp Li batteries should do the job as you can use 90% of the charge instead of 40 with AGM. You won’t need 500 watts of solar In any case. You don’t need a 1-1 power ratio. 300 should more than handle it. I just recently did this with my buddies Fleet. It had the solar package though. I designed my own system for my Fleet and just used the Yeti 1000 X for everything instead of a charge controller, battery bank, wiring for 12v and 110, fuses, inverter, etc. The Yeti has all of that stuff built in. Plug and play. Easy. It’s also a 1 minute job to remove it for winter. If you have the room, I would just buy a Li power station and use it for the ebike and whatever other 110 appliances you may use. A blender comes to mind. Leave the camper the way it is. We did exactly this for another friends Cricket and it works great. The power station will replace the genny. I also have a Honda 1000 eui (for our soundstage at burningman), but it isn’t optimal for solid state electronics like a battery charger. They do have an inverter, but the sine wave isn’t very clean. I had to buy a separate line conditioner. You could sell the genny to pay for the Yeti. If you want to tackle the upgrade to the camper, I’m happy to explain exactly what we did to my buddies Fleet to bring it into the modern age. Or go through what we did with the Cricket or my Fleet. Just DM me. Camper work is fun.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I am a bit confused on the massive wire and electrical load that the vehicle can't handle comments. My ebike chargers are 2amp chargers (120v - 1.8a - 50-60hz input, 42v - 2amp output). They consume about 85-105w at full tilt. I can/have easily fed these utilizing 500w inverters (quality pure sine wave) but realistically, i power them using a 1000w inverter as that's what I have in my truck persistently. It's not as if the draw we're speaking of here, requires any more/less significant wiring to feed then the inverter would otherwise require. Mine is fed using 4 awg wire, although I could have easily used 6awg because I never draw at capacity. I only upsized that far as my inverter is mounted in the bed of my truck and it's 15' of wire between the inverter and the battery. 

All that being said, it's not as if I would have ever fed the inverter with wire any smaller then that. From there, I can just use an AC extension chord to run the power a handful of additional feet for convenience. Either way, 8/10 AWG is not heavy wiring. Your charger is going to likely consume around 200w max, realistically, more like 160w. You're really looking at a max draw of around 14amps or so. That would be easily covered by 10awg wire at a distance under 10' if you needed to.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Fyi... Costco has good deals right now on a variety of Ecoflow options with and without solar panels...



https://www.costco.com/CatalogSearch?dept=All&keyword=Ecoflow


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

One of my buddies used his generator to recharge his ebike. Damned thing ran all morning. 

Won't camp with him again. 

My bike has a replaceable battery. I haven't been camping yet, but my current plan is to get a second battery for the long weekends where one cell isn't enough. So far my wife's bike has enough endurance for 2-3 days riding, not sure what mine will get but I think one extra battery pack should do it.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Last week I ordered an Ecoflow Delta 2 with a solar panel. It should suffice for not only my camping needs in general, as well as the ebike. Also should be handy around the house during the occasional power outage too. Didn't really want a generator, but haven't ruled it out completely either (but not the Ecoflow model, that's kinda pricey).


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## Shinscrape (5 mo ago)

What about changing to an acoustic bicycle?


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Shinscrape said:


> What about changing to an acoustic bicycle?


LOL still crack up at "acoustic" (or "analog") vs "digital" bikes.....audio being another hobby. I have 8 "acoustic" bikes, one "digital"  Makes little sense in audio world, let alone in bike world....


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## Shinscrape (5 mo ago)

In all seriousness I like ebikes we shuttle the kids around on one I hope you find a power block that is like solar powered or something easy and affordable. I would hate to have to hear a generator running in my campsite while I was there.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Shinscrape said:


> In all seriousness I like ebikes we shuttle the kids around on one I hope you find a power block that is like solar powered or something easy and affordable. I would hate to have to hear a generator running in my campsite while I was there.


Yeah... I genuinely find generators to be revolting at camp sites. If you want power and can't find a quiet way to make it, go find an RV campsite or a hotel. Nothing worse than having a neighbor at a campground running one of those damned things for hours at a time. 

_Likewise super loud music, I go camping to get out in nature, not to listen to your bullshit. _


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Shinscrape said:


> In all seriousness I like ebikes we shuttle the kids around on one I hope you find a power block that is like solar powered or something easy and affordable. I would hate to have to hear a generator running in my campsite while I was there.


The one I ordered is a power block and also ordered a solar panel to charge it with, altho I wouldn't call it particularly cheap, but has some nice features but should handle a camping trip easily enough I think. I wouldn't take a gas generator camping (no need mostly) and don't camp near the rv's that use 'em....altho we have had some multi-day power outages where a gas generator would have an advantage.....but I'll try just the power block thing first (or even order an accessory battery they offer).


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Very very very simple, buy a gas generator or go full tree hugger and go solar ($$$$$$$$, plus more stuff) but you got to deal with the noise of the generator, which can be reduced very easily and still keep the gen cool.

Cost and how much sunlight you get is the key for solar. Not worth the risk unless you have a backup ready to rock (like a generator)

I prefer huge batteries to be able to dump a ton of wh into, but the max on 120v 15a is 21-14a for up to 60v (which is what I look at), riding everyday and guerilla charging with small batteries (750wh) is not fun at all, waiting around all the time...... with solar its the same waiting game just waiting 10-100 times longer. It is not sunny and cloudless all the time for many around the world.


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## Cell4soul (6 mo ago)

I use the Ecoflow Power Station with a solar panel on my 4Runner. It works great. Pic of the 4Runner and a link to Ecoflow here: Buy EcoFlow RIVER Max Portable Power Station - Black - EcoFlow US


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

If you're building a solar system, make sure you shop around for panels. I'm horrified at how much the battery / power station companies charge for their panels. If you can mount or easily transport rigid panels you get way more capability for your cash.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

TooTallUK said:


> If you're building a solar system, make sure you shop around for panels. I'm horrified at how much the battery / power station companies charge for their panels. If you can mount or easily transport rigid panels you get way more capability for your cash.


Definitely was a consideration but as a complete newb and no existing solar gear at all, went with an Ecoflow panel primarily for convenience/portability, but have been looking around at alternatives, particularly for the home where a more permanent mounting or larger size could be interesting.


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## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

My four wheel camper was purchased new in 1993 with a single camper battery in a box under the seat. Since I have skied out of this camper for decades now I had to put in two more deep cycle batteries between the camper and the truck bed in front of the wheel well. The three batteries together would power the heater, the lights, and a small tv for two days without charging. Note that a lead acid battery has less than 20% power below 20 degrees. Lithium batteries are even worse with cold and will not charge well when cold. The truck electrical system heats up the batteries while charging and they charge OK after 20 - 30 miles.

The camper electrical is separated from the two huge truck batteries by an isolater so I have no worries about discharging the truck batteries. The camper has an 18,000 BTU propane forced hot air heater (4.4 amps) and the internal camper lights. First incandescent, then fluorescent, now LED. The 3 way refrigerator cannot be run long on 12V when the truck is not running. I have a 500 watt inverter for the camper but it will not power the Giant charger. I would like a slower 12V charger which could charge during travel or when camping using the inverter.

I also have an EU 2000 and an EU 1000. The 1000 is good for 900 watts continuous and 1000 watts surge. The 2000 is good for 1200 watts continuous and 2000 watts surge. Both are surprisingly quiet but the 1000 is much quieter than the 2000 which is much much quieter than a typical gas generator. I don't worry most of the time about bothering others since we generally camp dispersed; if we are in a campground, there's always the jerk with blaring music so I hope my generator irritates him.

We've avoided panels on the camper since we seek out shade anyway plus we carry a boat on the top most of the year and there is not that much room inside a small camper for extra stuff like solar panels.

At home, we have an 8000 watt carport and two powerwall batteries. Take that piggie!


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

You are correct that using an inverter to supply the 4amps at 120v will indeed require 40amps at 12v to supply the inverter from a 12v battery. But the batteries are not charged with 500w per hour so you don't need 500w of solar panels. The panels can charge the battery used to drive the inverter over a longer period of time. Say you have 5 hours a day of good solid sun. *through the trees/overcast etc) If you had one 100w panel you would get 100w per hour or in five hours you would get 500w into the batteries. But many panels rated at 100w are not really 100w. You can reduce the size of the cabling by using a 24v or larger battery system. 24v battery will reduce the cabling size in half. But you need to choose your inverter and panels to match - 24v.
Take a look at a Renogy 200w suitcase. It folds for storage, is pretty well made and has the controller built-in. You can move it around the campsite to catch the morning sun before you leave and the afternoon when you come back from a ride. It will drive 12 battery banks.








200 Watt 12 Volt Monocrystalline Foldable Solar Suitcase


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

mike_kelly said:


> But the batteries are not charged with 500w per hour so you don't need 500w of solar panels. The panels can charge the battery used to drive the inverter over a longer period of time. Say you have 5 hours a day of good solid sun. *through the trees/overcast etc) If you had one 100w panel you would get 100w per hour or in five hours you would get 500w into the batteries. But many panels rated at 100w are not really 100w.


On a perfectly clear day with zero cloud and perfectly aligned panels, a 100w panel could generate 100w per hour. If you're trying to generate with any tree shade or it being overcast / panels not aligned etc, I'd think 50w/hr to be optimistic. So, you step up the number of panels to compensate for the reduced performance. That's how solar works.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

TooTallUK said:


> On a perfectly clear day with zero cloud and perfectly aligned panels, a 100w panel could generate 100w per hour. If you're trying to generate with any tree shade or it being overcast / panels not aligned etc, I'd think 50w/hr to be optimistic. So, you step up the number of panels to compensate for the reduced performance. That's how solar works.


But also many of the panels are overrated these days and don't produce, in ideal conditions, what they claim.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

mike_kelly said:


> But also many of the panels are overrated these days and don't produce, in ideal conditions, what they claim.


I just received my Ecoflow (discussed earlier in this thread). I plugged in several different panels that I have and noted the actual watts being delivered vs rated. Huge differences...from about 50% of rated power to 105%. My experience with these panels is the better producing ones are from a reputable brand (Sun Joe) and the unbranded ones suck. YMMV.

I am looking for some more panels to feed the Ecoflow on a more permanent style basis as a battery backup for household items (in addition to camping use). The Ecoflow will easily run most of the appliances I need in a power outage scenario (besides my well pump which is 240v). For those additional panels, I'll probably go with Renology, as they are reasonably priced while still having a good reputation.

I am a bit of a solar geek, with a 4.4kW grid-intertie system that has fully paid for itself (installed something like 12 years ago).


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

mike_kelly said:


> But also many of the panels are overrated these days and don't produce, in ideal conditions, what they claim.


My point was that your concept of how many panels someone needed and how solar panels function was incorrect. Panels sometimes do not perform as rated, but panels will always underperform if the conditions are not ideal (shade, alignment, cloud cover etc).


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

TooTallUK said:


> My point was that your concept of how many panels someone needed and how solar panels function was incorrect. Panels sometimes do not perform as rated, but panels will always underperform if the conditions are not ideal (shade, alignment, cloud cover etc).


Obviously...


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