# If you could live anywhere for mountain biking...



## ulnar-landing (Nov 22, 2020)

So I'm considering trying to escape new England. I've lived here my whole life and am looking to change things up. I'm trying to brain storm where I would most like to be. The riding here is good but I'd love to move somewhere that's near a good amount of actual mountains and I really really want to be able to ride all year round on my trail bike and not a fat bike. 

Where are your favorite places for riding that also seem good to live? I don't like cities but like being near enough to one to drive to one. Thinking of maybe somewhere like the desert but doesn't have to be. Also would want somewhere relatively cheap. 

I was thinking somewhere like utah but I really don't know what the social and/or job scene is like out there and I bet there's a lot of great places I wouldn't have initially thought of. Mtb isn't my only reason for moving but just want input mostly on that portion. 

For reference I'm in my late 20's, have a partner, and we both have relatively low paying jobs we would end up quitting


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

New Mexico.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I was going to suggest Wydaho until I got to the part about riding all year. It's ski country. 

If you want to ride all year around (really ride, not ride on snow pretending to be mountain biking) then you'll probably have the best luck narrowing your search to somewhere in the desert southwest like northern AZ or NM.


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## ulnar-landing (Nov 22, 2020)

Le Duke said:


> New Mexico.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why new Mexico? I've been there and it's by far my favorite place I've been. I spent time off the grid somewhere between abq and Santa Fe and if was so nice. I didn't have my mtb though so I don't know what the riding is like in the area.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Given those criteria for climate and riding, yeah, the southwest is probably about right. That said, pay attention to cost of living. If you're in relatively low paying jobs, it may not make financial sense to make that move. A lot of places with great trails cost a good bit to live there. And that's assuming you can find a suitable job in the first place.

My wife and I have been through this, and she has a job with a pretty respectable income. Some places with great trails, the possible jobs didn't pay enough for us to make it work. Other places did, so that ended up being the biggest criteria for us. And even then, we couldn't afford to be quite as close to the trails as we wanted.


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## ulnar-landing (Nov 22, 2020)

Harold said:


> Given those criteria for climate and riding, yeah, the southwest is probably about right. That said, pay attention to cost of living. If you're in relatively low paying jobs, it may not make financial sense to make that move. A lot of places with great trails cost a good bit to live there. And that's assuming you can find a suitable job in the first place.
> 
> My wife and I have been through this, and she has a job with a pretty respectable income. Some places with great trails, the possible jobs didn't pay enough for us to make it work. Other places did, so that ended up being the biggest criteria for us. And even then, we couldn't afford to be quite as close to the trails as we wanted.


Where did you end up settling on and what were some other places you considered?

Cost of living is a big concern. It was definitely much cheaper to live in new Mexico but we weren't near any true vacation destinations. Massachusetts is already hugely expensive though so a lot of places should be the same in comparison. Dream scenario would be to buy land where land is cheap and be able to air bnb some of the time while traveling but obviously that isn't a realistic scenario, just an ideal.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Any place will be better than Massachusetts to live, except NY/NJ area. Go out and try different areas to see what fits best for you


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## ulnar-landing (Nov 22, 2020)

Bacon Fat said:


> Any place will be better than Massachusetts to live, except NY/NJ area. Go out and try different areas to see what fits best for you


Yeah, I'm planning a road trip this summer since I have about 3 weeks vacation time saved up. Just looking for ideas to guide my direction. Would definitely go there first before making a life changing decision


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

ulnar-landing said:


> Where did you end up settling on and what were some other places you considered?
> 
> Cost of living is a big concern. It was definitely much cheaper to live in new Mexico but we weren't near any true vacation destinations. Massachusetts is already hugely expensive though so a lot of places should be the same in comparison. Dream scenario would be to buy land where land is cheap and be able to air bnb some of the time while traveling but obviously that isn't a realistic scenario, just an ideal.


Ended up outside of Asheville, NC. Mostly year-round riding in Pisgah. Wintertime sees enough freeze/thaw cycles that many days you need to time your rides to stay on frozen dirt instead of the just-thawed slop. Usually not enough snow to require a fatbike. But plenty of storms leave ice where studs are a wise choice to ride on it (otherwise, just wait a few days for the ice to melt).

We're originally from the great lakes area of the midwest, so grew up with grey, cold, snowy winters (though more recently, sloppy winters is more like it), and humid (but usually not oppressively hot) summers. I had a seasonal job that took me to SW Utah (not near any of the best riding, but there were plenty of quiet places for me to explore). I loved the place and the work was rewarding enough, but the culture there wasn't my favorite. The area I was in was pretty rural, so more cosmopolitan cities would have been better in that regard. That just wasn't where I was.

We've visited quite a few places over the years, as well as having lived in others. Lived in E.TX for several years for grad school. That's where we both decided that temps over 100F for extended periods were not for us. Certainly, it was a lot more humid there than it is in the SW, but at a certain point, it's a fairly minor distinction because hot is just hot. Visited Sedona to ride, and while the riding is great, the economy there sucks if you actually want to live there. My wife's income there would probably be 50% of what it is now. She liked it enough that she started doing the research to figure the area out. We could have done it, but would have had to make some sacrifices we weren't willing to make. We considered a couple areas of the PNW (slightly less expensive areas, anyway), but she encountered problems with potential employers who were SUPER sketched out about even interviewing her, because they were afraid she'd flake out on them and leave because she didn't like the area. I'm not sure what that was all about, but it happened a few times. CA and CO were right out, because cost of living.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> New Mexico.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My first thought too.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

ulnar-landing said:


> Yeah, I'm planning a road trip this summer since I have about 3 weeks vacation time saved up. Just looking for ideas to guide my direction. Would definitely go there first before making a life changing decision


I would head south to NC/north GA area, then start heading west to Bentonville. The zip over to NV/Utah/AZ area


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

Lived in socal for 10+ and like Harold said if you are not having a good job you can have fun but cost of living is high and will keep you in the rat race.
Moved also to the outskirts of Asheville 10 years ago and do not see myself moving anywhere anytime soon.
Winters are to short to really bother me and having said that I am going on a ride in shorts in a few.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Bacon Fat said:


> Any place will be better than Massachusetts to live, except NY/NJ area. Go out and try different areas to see what fits best for you


Interesting. We can afford to live anywhere and find NY/NJ the best base for travel. Both sons remain in the NY/NJ area too. We are all avid bikers and skiers and considering how close international airports are, we are only an hour away from any place else in the world and if we can't fly direct, it probably isn't worth going to.

If you want to ride year round, New Mexico was my first thought.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Rev Bubba said:


> Interesting. We can afford to live anywhere and find NY/NJ the best base for travel. Both sons remain in the NY/NJ area too. We are all avid bikers and skiers and considering how close international airports are, we are only an hour away from any place else in the world and if we can't fly direct, it probably isn't worth going to.
> 
> If you want to ride year round, New Mexico was my first thought.


Yeah, its a great place to travel to somewhere good. I rather live in the place you want to go then the place that is easy to leave


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## ulnar-landing (Nov 22, 2020)

acer66 said:


> Lived in socal for 10+ and like Harold said if you are not having a good job you can have fun but cost of living is high and will keep you in the rat race.
> Moved also to the outskirts of Asheville 10 years ago and do not see myself moving anywhere anytime soon.
> Winters are to short to really bother me and having said that I am going on a ride in shorts in a few.


Yeah nc seems like a really good compromise. Jealous of the shorts. I've been wearing them but with a wool baselayer underneath. That being said, any day I have off such as today, there's a post in the local trail advocacy group to stay off the trails as to not ruin them since it's so wet in the winter here.

Also winter length is something I didn't even consider. Winter is november-march here. Probably a lot shorter the further south you go.


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## ulnar-landing (Nov 22, 2020)

Harold said:


> Ended up outside of Asheville, NC. Mostly year-round riding in Pisgah. Wintertime sees enough freeze/thaw cycles that many days you need to time your rides to stay on frozen dirt instead of the just-thawed slop. Usually not enough snow to require a fatbike. But plenty of storms leave ice where studs are a wise choice to ride on it (otherwise, just wait a few days for the ice to melt).
> 
> We're originally from the great lakes area of the midwest, so grew up with grey, cold, snowy winters (though more recently, sloppy winters is more like it), and humid (but usually not oppressively hot) summers. I had a seasonal job that took me to SW Utah (not near any of the best riding, but there were plenty of quiet places for me to explore). I loved the place and the work was rewarding enough, but the culture there wasn't my favorite. The area I was in was pretty rural, so more cosmopolitan cities would have been better in that regard. That just wasn't where I was.
> 
> We've visited quite a few places over the years, as well as having lived in others. Lived in E.TX for several years for grad school. That's where we both decided that temps over 100F for extended periods were not for us. Certainly, it was a lot more humid there than it is in the SW, but at a certain point, it's a fairly minor distinction because hot is just hot. Visited Sedona to ride, and while the riding is great, the economy there sucks if you actually want to live there. My wife's income there would probably be 50% of what it is now. She liked it enough that she started doing the research to figure the area out. We could have done it, but would have had to make some sacrifices we weren't willing to make. We considered a couple areas of the PNW (slightly less expensive areas, anyway), but she encountered problems with potential employers who were SUPER sketched out about even interviewing her, because they were afraid she'd flake out on them and leave because she didn't like the area. I'm not sure what that was all about, but it happened a few times. CA and CO were right out, because cost of living.


Super helpful info, thank you! That last part about the interview is weird. I wonder if the pnw sees a lot of people that move there for riding/outdoor recreation and then don't like it for whatever reason.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

ulnar-landing said:


> Super helpful info, thank you! That last part about the interview is weird. I wonder if the pnw sees a lot of people that move there for riding/outdoor recreation and then don't like it for whatever reason.


I have an old high school friend that moved to Seattle for a job with Amazon, IIRC. She only made it a few months before moving back to Indiana. For her, it was separation from family that did her in. The places where my wife applied were weird and kinda flaky themselves. We almost got the impression that they saw that we were in Texas at the time (I was finishing grad school, and we were looking to make a move to a place where we wanted to settle down for awhile), and made some assumptions that weren't necessarily true about us.

I know more than one person that moved to Asheville, then couldn't find suitable work in their field, and then left (one ended up in Austin, TX working for Facebook). So Asheville is definitely one of those places you shouldn't come to unless you've got a solid job lined up already. There are jobs here, but not every industry is well-represented. IME, that sort of thing is going to be common for most places where the riding is excellent.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

It's common for pretty much any tourist area.


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

Went for a ride yesterday - 28 degrees in Wisconsin. Would not call it ideal🤣 At least it was sunny.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

SpartyinWI said:


> Went for a ride yesterday - 28 degrees in Wisconsin. Would not call it ideal🤣 At least it was sunny.


I raced yesterday in Alaska. It's so nice not overheating and sweating like a dog. With the minimal amount of clothing you can wear in these temps when riding hard, it can be a lot nicer than some sweaty nasty summer riding down South.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

ulnar-landing said:


> Why new Mexico? I've been there and it's by far my favorite place I've been. I spent time off the grid somewhere between abq and Santa Fe and if was so nice. I didn't have my mtb though so I don't know what the riding is like in the area.


When you factor in the year-round riding stipulation plus cost of living it points to that region.

If you don't absolutely need to ride year-round then it opens up a lot of other possibilities.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

You're in your late 20's with a partner with low paying jobs.

What do you want your life to be in 10 years? I'd say that you need to understand what you want your future to be, beyond mountain biking, and work toward that end. Once you've figured that out, then figure in how you'll get there with mountain biking as a part of THAT life, not the other way around.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

I hear Alabama is paying people $10k to move there. Not sure if that applies to the British.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Bacon Fat said:


> Yeah, its a great place to travel to somewhere good. I rather live in the place you want to go then the place that is easy to leave


Anywhere gets boring eventually and good is subjective.

I like the ability to go where I want when I want and not be stuck in some out of the way place. As my wife and I often say, "this is a great place to visit but we sure wouldn't want to live here."

To each his/her own.


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## Skeptastic (Mar 31, 2012)

Klurejr said:


> I hear Alabama is paying people $10k to move there. Not sure if that applies to the British.


They're moving from New England (MA), not the UK.


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

Le Duke said:


> New Mexico.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would agree, use to live there and still miss it.

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

I live in Albuquerque. Cost of living is cheaper than Massachusetts for sure. My daughter currently lives in Boston.

It's high desert (I live near the foothills of the Sandia Mountains at 5800 feet). Four distinct seasons.

There are hundreds of miles of singletrack throughout the area. That's just Albuquerque, there is also tons of riding around Santa Fe.

The higher elevations do get snowed in from about late November through March/April. The foothill trail systems stay mostly dry throughout the winter, occasionally getting snow. Worst case scenario is that the foothills are un ridable (without a fatbike) for a couple of weeks.

I literally live half a block from trails leading up to the foothills. It's pretty fantastic.
Most of the crime is localized in the city (warzone Central Ave/Zuni), there are quite a few nice/safe areas to live.

Other pros-
6 hours to Sedona, 7-8 hours to Moab. 3.5 hours to Durango or Pagosa Springs.
Skiing on Sandia Mountain (if there is enough snow) 45 minutes by car or you can take the Tram w/ your skis/snowboard to the top of the mountain
1.5 hours to Santa Fe Ski
2.5 hours to Taos
Wolf Creek north of Pagosa Springs gets something like 400 inches of snow yearly, lots of powder days, and it's a bargain compared to other Colorado resorts - $80 for all day lift ticket.
300 days of sunshine
very low humidity
GREEN CHILE
No pro sport teams to speak of, but UNM has the PIt for Lobos basketball, Women's soccer, a terrible football team.
AAA baseball the Isotopes with a really nice ball park.
Pretty decent food/restaurants and Santa Fe is an hour north on I25
Everyone should see the International Balloon Fiesta at least once. The sky is filled with Balloons every morning that week.

The foothills 3 weeks ago->


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## Lovespicyfood (Aug 4, 2012)

I know it’s not cheap but living in Southern California is great for year round mountain biking with great trails with good climbing all around.


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## mlloyd007 (Dec 7, 2009)

Sedona is mountain biking nirvana, but at your stage of the game you'd need jobs/careers that would allow remote access.


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## MTBRT (Sep 28, 2005)

Check out Roanoke, Va, Harrisburg, Va. All in the Shenandoah valley. 10 month to year round riding. Low cost of living, hundreds of miles of trails, bike parks, back country, gravel, what ever you want.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

MTBRT said:


> Check out Roanoke, Va, Harrisburg, Va. All in the Shenandoah valley. 10 month to year round riding. Low cost of living, hundreds of miles of trails, bike parks, back country, gravel, what ever you want.


Harrisonburg VA, great town, that they really have put effort into. With the college there, fun stuff to do. Great riding in the area. Unfortunately NOVA is really doing their best to ruin the whole state


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Bacon Fat said:


> Harrisonburg VA, great town, that they really have put effort into. With the college there, fun stuff to do. Great riding in the area. Unfortunately NOVA is really doing their best to ruin the whole state


That whole I-81 corridor is great.

From Blacksburg to Harrisonburg. Just filthy with trails. Every time I look at Trailforks, more trails are added. And WV is being mapped now, too. So much out there, official and otherwise.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Northwest Arkansas. Should be relocating there next year.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

For me the answer to that question would be Nelson, New Zealand. But seems how you're not from here you're sh!t outa luck at the moment sorry!!


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## can't get right (May 15, 2005)

Lovespicyfood said:


> I know it's not cheap but living in Southern California is great for year round mountain biking with great trails with good climbing all around.


Dude...So Cal is an awesome place to visit. But living there is pure A$$. There is a reason that businesses are evacuating the state.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Skeptastic said:


> They're moving from New England (MA), not the UK.


I think he was joking as the OP said he was from "new England" and not New England.

And I thought it was Arkansas that was offering 10K to move there.


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## chase2wheels (Oct 16, 2003)

we are here. Tucson, AZ. Year round epic riding, low cost of living...no winter


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## Jesse Hill (Dec 29, 2006)

ulnar-landing said:


> So I'm considering trying to escape new England. I've lived here my whole life and am looking to change things up. I'm trying to brain storm where I would most like to be. The riding here is good but I'd love to move somewhere that's near a good amount of actual mountains and I really really want to be able to ride all year round on my trail bike and not a fat bike.
> 
> Where are your favorite places for riding that also seem good to live? I don't like cities but like being near enough to one to drive to one. Thinking of maybe somewhere like the desert but doesn't have to be. Also would want somewhere relatively cheap.
> 
> ...


While it certainly is not cheap by any stretch of the imagination NorCal fits everything else your after. Year round riding no problem, can even snowboard one day and bike the next. also once summer time comes your not far from SoCal, oregon and washington so you can even break up your riding environment. SoCal for your more rock, desert riding, up north for even denser forest than you'll get in NorCal and just within NorCal itself you can have forest riding in UCSC and more exposed rocky dry soil in Pacifica. Your still young so now would be the time to do it but it is $$$ here but un the flip side the economy usually does better here and leads to more hiring (this year though who really knows what's going to happen).


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## Skeptastic (Mar 31, 2012)

Vespasianus said:


> I think he was joking as the OP said he was from "new England" and not New England.
> 
> And I thought it was Arkansas that was offering 10K to move there.


Ah okay. I only wrote that because I initially read it as England myself, haha! And you're right, it's NW Arkansas that'll slide you 10k to relocate. Pretty cool deal.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Jesse Hill said:


> While it certainly is not cheap by any stretch of the imagination NorCal fits everything else your after. Year round riding no problem, can even snowboard one day and bike the next. also once summer time comes your not far from SoCal, oregon and washington so you can even break up your riding environment. SoCal for your more rock, desert riding, up north for even denser forest than you'll get in NorCal and just within NorCal itself you can have forest riding in UCSC and more exposed rocky dry soil in Pacifica. Your still young so now would be the time to do it but it is $$$ here but un the flip side the economy usually does better here and leads to more hiring (this year though who really knows what's going to happen).


Yeah the bay area is expensive. My wife and I were raised in the bay and moved to the Sacramento area where its more affordable to live and lots of outdoor activities. Tahoe is less than 2 hours away, could make a day trip to the beach, lots of riding and camping in the Sierra etc. Can also ride year round, winters are cold, rode this morning in 37* weather and summers are hot (100+). Just throwing it out there  I have MTB trails 15min from my house and many more within an hour drive, some really good riding too.


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## Jackson Rich (Aug 10, 2013)

For year round riding, Arizona comes to mind. You’d just have to be sure to get out early in the hot season. Not sure AZ is a great place to live though. Granted, I’ve only been to Phoenix area, but I just wasn’t impressed with the whole vibe of the place.

I used to live in Bend, which seems like a good option MTB-wise. There are trails you can almost always ride year round there. It’s expensive though and there’s so many overqualified people living there that decent jobs are tough to come by. Also, the riding is incredible to me, but more enduro/hucking/gnar type riders might be disappointed.

SUPER under the radar option is Redding, CA. Riding there is phenomenal. Weather is great (maybe a little hot in summer), its low elevation so the winters are really mild. Cost of living, traffic, and pace of life is very un-California too which is a big plus. It’s also near Mt. Shasta, which is the most awe inspiring mountain in the country (IMHO of course). It’s also fairly close to Sacramento and the Bay Area for your big city fix. Near Tahoe as well for weekend riding trips.

Also, shoutout to my current home, Southern Oregon. There’s a ton of trails within 90 min of Medford. Some stuff gets muddy in the winter, but you can always find something dry to ride. I rode in Ashland today and the dirt was perfect. The big drawback for me is lack of culture.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Jackson Rich said:


> For year round riding, Arizona comes to mind. You'd just have to be sure to get out early in the hot season. Not sure AZ is a great place to live though. Granted, I've only been to Phoenix area, but I just wasn't impressed with the whole vibe of the place.


Turns out, there are a lot of places in cooler areas (than Phoenix) in AZ with trails.


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## Jackson Rich (Aug 10, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Turns out, there are a lot of places in cooler areas (than Phoenix) in AZ with trails.


So I've heard. Didn't mean to diss Arizona, my bad. I was just sharing my experience. I've heard good things about both Flagstaff and Sedona.


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## michael1 (Nov 17, 2011)

I've been thinking about this too. I'm by Bellingham now having moved from California, but not into the cold/rainy weather. Thinking Las Vegas might be a good option since I'm also into rock climbing and peak bagging. Plus, I want to be by a decent sized airport.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I moved to Arizona this year for the exact same reason. Lived in the Midwest most of my life, hated it and when my wife said she didn't ever want to live through another winter again I jumped on the opportunity to pack our **** and move. I pushed really hard for North Carolina because the Research Triangle seemed perfect for us; close to Asheville which has some of my favorite riding, and close to the beach (which my wife and daughters love). My wife pushed for Phoenix because NC still gets fairly cold in the winter. 

I am ultimately glad she pushed so hard for AZ. Being able to ride every day of the year and being so close to places like Sedona and Flagstaff have been incredibly life changing for me.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Moved to Phoenix from Maryland more than 20 years ago. Occasionally miss the beach, but glad to leave the East Coast behind. Only place I’d consider in the east would be Asheville.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

ulnar-landing said:


> Yeah nc seems like a really good compromise. Jealous of the shorts. I've been wearing them but with a wool baselayer underneath. That being said, any day I have off such as today, there's a post in the local trail advocacy group to stay off the trails as to not ruin them since it's so wet in the winter here.
> 
> Also winter length is something I didn't even consider. Winter is november-march here. Probably a lot shorter the further south you go.


Winter is also Nov-March here in north Georgia. But I ride year round and that means I'm riding in the 40s most of the winter. We just had our coldest Christmas in something like 30 years, low of 22. It was in the low 50s yesterday. I'm in Atlanta, north GA mountains are a few degrees cooler.


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## goldsbar (Dec 2, 2004)

Careful with some of these suggestions. New Mexico is as different from New England as is England. You might like it, you might not.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

MSU Alum said:


> You're in your late 20's with a partner with low paying jobs.
> 
> What do you want your life to be in 10 years? I'd say that you need to understand what you want your future to be, beyond mountain biking, and work toward that end. Once you've figured that out, then figure in how you'll get there with mountain biking as a part of THAT life, not the other way around.


^This is the best advice I'm seeing here.

Also, moving from England to Mexico is also good advice but the Brits sometimes do struggle with the spicy diet.

And if you don't leave MA this year, there is still a TON of dry/dirt riding in the winter from Plymouth all the way through the Cape.


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## iLuveKetchup (Dec 21, 2020)

Klurejr said:


> I hear Alabama is paying people $10k to move there. Not sure if that applies to the British.


You might be thinking of North West Arkansas i.e. Bentonville, Fayetteville?

I'm also thinking of moving and my considerations are not only for MTB but cost of living. I work remotely and hopefully can move to Bentonville while taking my NYC salary with me. That would be a game of life cheat code.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Stay the hell away from AZ and NM. If it doesn't bite you, sting you or burn you it'll prick you. Godforsaken country for sure.


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## ksm (Sep 25, 2020)

Just saw this article a couple weeks back : This U.S. Region Will Pay You $10,000 To Move There (And Give You A Bike, Too)

Considering your financial situation it might work, unless you're a minority, or a person of color, or foreign national, then I suppose I'd probably think twice before moving to the south in this political climate, but that's just me.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I don't necessarily want other people to move up to Northwest Arkansas with me, it's too good! I have many years of background in the area and currently live in Texas. I should mention that there are at least three Fortune 500 companies around the Bentonville area, so it has a thriving economy, if not Texas-level, growing fast.

I agree with the fatherly advice: develop your career first, then look for making the best way to live. Here's why, for instance: My city, Houston is flat, humid, and hot, but it's within driving distance of some great trails (headed on a road trip to Austin this week, El Paso and the Franklin Mountains in 2 weeks). I also can jump over to the most efficient international airport in the USA and be in Cancun or Costa Rica (La Ruta, anyone?) in under 3 hours, or anywhere else I want to go.

Taxes are low in Texas, as are housing costs, and there are a ton of resources. But you have to have some money to take advantage! Don't trap yourself and be enslaved to low-paying jobs out of love for being a bike bum: invest in yourself and it'll pay dividends, and you can live well and travel wherever you'd like with your bike.


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## Lord Shiggins (Aug 22, 2018)

mlx john said:


> I live in Albuquerque. Cost of living is cheaper than Massachusetts for sure. My daughter currently lives in Boston.
> 
> It's high desert (I live near the foothills of the Sandia Mountains at 5800 feet). Four distinct seasons.
> 
> ...


?Green Chile is at least the number 1 or 2 reason I want to move to New Mexico


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

ulnar-landing said:


> Why new Mexico? I've been there and it's by far my favorite place I've been. I spent time off the grid somewhere between abq and Santa Fe and if was so nice. I didn't have my mtb though so I don't know what the riding is like in the area.


B/c he doesn't want anyone else in Colorado.

Seriously though, I'd be thinking just north of there in the Durango area. Not necessarily Durango itself...but that area.


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## bike4now (Feb 3, 2007)

I'm bi-coastal, having homes in both the metro Boston area and Nor-Cal. We're not in the same financial bracket as you, but there's one place that's NOT being brought up, that would suit you well, and that's Nor-Cal. There are tons of job oppurtunities there, there are places in the Sierras where the living is quite affordable. The riding is year round (365 days a year) and you can't drive in any direction, without finding excellent mtn. biking. It's also the birthplace of mtn. biking, for what it's worth. Sure, living in SF of Silicon Valley might not be do-able for you right now, but you could definitely find a ton of places on the Western slope of the Sierras, especially the college towns, like Chico, where you can get a decent job and mtn. bike every single day.


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## bike4now (Feb 3, 2007)

iLuveKetchup said:


> 100% exactly this!!!


This is on point, for a TON of people.


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

ulnar-landing said:


> So I'm considering trying to escape new England. I've lived here my whole life and am looking to change things up. I'm trying to brain storm where I would most like to be. The riding here is good but I'd love to move somewhere that's near a good amount of actual mountains and I really really want to be able to ride all year round on my trail bike and not a fat bike.
> 
> Where are your favorite places for riding that also seem good to live? I don't like cities but like being near enough to one to drive to one. Thinking of maybe somewhere like the desert but doesn't have to be. Also would want somewhere relatively cheap.
> 
> ...


I already live it. Arizona. Year-round riding. Desert singletrack in the southern part and forest singletrack in eastern and northern AZ. Hundreds of miles of trails in and around Phoenix/Scottsdale and no snow!


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## ulnar-landing (Nov 22, 2020)

new Mexico is up there but I hear a lot less about their mtb trails. I lived there on the short term for 3 months doing wwoof and I really liked it. That place would also be somewhat of a bonus because I already know people there. If new Mexico people wanna link to what there trails are like that would be cool. And YES to green chile


Also I figure I'll address what some folks were mentioning about building a career etc. I'm not necessarily a career oriented person and I do make enough money to support my life style. I'm a very frugal person aside from bikes and I make enough to live, ride bikes almost every day, and save money. Sure I'd like to save more eventually, pay off student loans, and get a job probably related to bikes, but those really aren't giant career goals and I think aren't really dependant on me staying in one location. After next oct I'll have been at my job for 3 years at which point I'm fully vetted and get to keep my 9% employer contribution to my 401k so this is a long term decision, not that I'm gonna just run away soon as I can. But I'm asking folks now so I can organize visiting these places and whatnot. I have somewhere between 3 weeks and a month of vacation time I've saved up and wanna do a nice big trip somewhere this summer as maybe a precursor. I'm a very research oriented person and plan things out pretty well in advance. I also generally try to get a job secured before a big move but that part may be hard if it's across the country.


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## ulnar-landing (Nov 22, 2020)

MTBeing said:


> I already live it. Arizona. Year-round riding. Desert singletrack in the southern part and forest singletrack in eastern and northern AZ. Hundreds of miles of trails in and around Phoenix/Scottsdale and no snow!


What part of arizona are you in? I think another part of arranging something like this is trying to be somewhere where it isn't astronomically expensive and that I can be driving distance to a lot of good riding while still hopefully having some trails I can ride to.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Coming late to this thread so haven't read most of the posts. I used to live in CO and currently live in CO. Lived in MA for part of the interim. CO, of course, has some great mtbing, but I prefer New England woodsy riding in general. I could also ride much of the winter as it wasn't that much of the time that snow prohibited it. I had innumerable places to ride within 20 minutes of my door, 3 of which I regularly rode the mtb to. Could have ridden to more if I didn't have such a distaste for riding the mtb on the road. No probs with road bike on the roads. Speaking of which, I also really prefer East Coast rode biking to CO.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

No. Politics. Forum rules n'at.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

ulnar-landing said:


> new Mexico is up there but I hear a lot less about their mtb trails. I lived there on the short term for 3 months doing wwoof and I really liked it. That place would also be somewhat of a bonus because I already know people there. If new Mexico people wanna link to what there trails are like that would be cool. And YES to green chile
> 
> Also I figure I'll address what some folks were mentioning about building a career etc. I'm not necessarily a career oriented person and I do make enough money to support my life style. I'm a very frugal person aside from bikes and I make enough to live, ride bikes almost every day, and save money. Sure I'd like to save more eventually, pay off student loans, and get a job probably related to bikes, but those really aren't giant career goals and I think aren't really dependant on me staying in one location. After next oct I'll have been at my job for 3 years at which point I'm fully vetted and get to keep my 9% employer contribution to my 401k so this is a long term decision, not that I'm gonna just run away soon as I can. But I'm asking folks now so I can organize visiting these places and whatnot. I have somewhere between 3 weeks and a month of vacation time I've saved up and wanna do a nice big trip somewhere this summer as maybe a precursor. I'm a very research oriented person and plan things out pretty well in advance. I also generally try to get a job secured before a big move but that part may be hard if it's across the country.


Not that it's any of our business and hopefully you and your partner have taken this into account if they're in your future plans: children are very expensive!

It sounds like you're pretty flexible but as Lone Rager touched on, think about the general environment you want to live in. I enjoy visiting and riding in Nevada but I wouldn't want to live there, I'm a big fan of the forest and I don't think I could adjust to the lack of trees. A member here I've ridden with several times in Nevada has said the exact opposite, he couldn't live where there are so many trees, would make him feel claustrophobic.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Turns out, there are a lot of places in cooler areas (than Phoenix) in AZ with trails.


Well, you know.. all of AZ is sand desert or Phoenix right


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

chazpat said:


> Not that it's any of our business and hopefully you and your partner have taken this into account if they're in your future plans: children are very expensive!
> 
> It sounds like you're pretty flexible but as Lone Rager touched on, think about the general environment you want to live in. I enjoy visiting and riding in Nevada but I wouldn't want to live there, I'm a big fan of the forest and I don't think I could adjust to the lack of trees. A member here I've ridden with several times in Nevada has said the exact opposite, he couldn't live where there are so many trees, would make him feel claustrophobic.


It actually is kind of a weird adjustment getting used to riding with no shade or trees when you come from a place that's densely wooded. I love the woods too, but it ended up not being a huge deal for me thankfully. The only time I hate not having shade and trees is when the temps get over 105 here. 105 actually doesn't feel super hot here in Phoenix, but the sun is absolutely punishing, and you literally can't escape it.

The good thing about Phoenix and Vegas is that you're a few hours from Flagstaff and some wooded California riding, so you don't have to go too far to get a break if you're burned out on desert riding.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I grew up and lived in Pennsylvania until I was 30, and rode most everything across the state and quite a few places outside of it. I will admit that I never took the bike to Vermont or Adirondacks, and I never rode in Pisgah. Although I have ridden MTB at Santos in Florida.

I rode everything from the near dead flat and smooth White Clay and Fair Hill in Northern New Jersey, to the rock-fest that is Bald Eagle and Rothrock State Forest, Diablo (now Mountain Creek), Wyoming Valley, lots of places around Erie out to Mohican in Ohio.

The biggest issue I found back east was the limited public land. In order to "get on dirt" (I hate riding road) - I had to drive 20-30 minutes to get to trails. There was always a choice of living in the city center and having the town, schools, social life, etc, and living someplace close to trails. I wanted someplace where I could live downtown, ride to work, but also ride to great trails, endless trails, and with minimal time on pavement.

It's crazy that a place like Pittsburgh has better trail access than a place Chambersburg (on the edge of Michaux State Forest) or State College (on the edge of Rothrock). Granted, the later cities are closer to more mileage of trails, but Pittsburgh has trails within 1/4 mile of downtown. All across the east coast, you always have to make this choice, it's either you live in town, or you live near trails. Even in Asheville, surrounded by the massive Pisgah National Forest, you can't really live in town and ride dirt to the trails at Bent Creek or Alex's.

I love Burlington, Vermont, but it too suffers from this conundrum - the public land is just too far from the city center to get both "city life" and "dirt life".

Now, this isn't to say that there aren't plenty of cities on the East Coast that have great trail systems within city limits, like Pittsburgh, but very rarely do they have trail systems in city limits that link to large swathes of public land outside the city.

For example, here in Flagstaff, AZ, I live 2 miles from my work and I can ride, mostly on dirt, to my office. I also live 1/4 mile from National Forest, where I could ride for hundreds of miles on dirt if I really wanted. I also can ride into town on separated unpaved bike paths most of the way into town, or to the grocery.

In Phoenix, a massive metropolitan area home to 4.8 million people, you can be almost anywhere in the valley and be within a mile of dirt trails (Glendale and Gilbert being exceptions) or at the very least, canal paths that will get you to dirt trails. Those trails can be strung together to allow you access to the huge swaths of public land.

So, when it comes to places that I would want to live that I could also make a "_reality_" - I think of places predominantly in the west.

Now, when it comes to "dream location" - I'd pack up my entire family and move us to New Zealand. Riverhead, Rotura, Queenstown.

My criteria is:


Big Mountains nearby
Can ride from reasonably large city center (50k+) to significant trail mileage within 2 miles.
Can ride to large public surface water sources (lakes, ocean, big rivers, etc)
Dry climate without being arid. I hate humidity.


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## angelo (Sep 3, 2004)

David R said:


> For me the answer to that question would be Nelson, New Zealand. But seems how you're not from here you're sh!t outa luck at the moment sorry!!


Yes indeed, awesome small city; visited twice-- rode Codgers Trails, Sharlands Creek plus Dun Mountain,and that was before Wairoa Goge was done....or the Old Ghost Road a little further afield.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Lone Rager said:


> Coming late to this thread so haven't read most of the posts. I used to live in CO and currently live in CO. Lived in MA for part of the interim. CO, of course, has some great mtbing, but I prefer New England woodsy riding in general. I could also ride much of the winter as it wasn't that much of the time that snow prohibited it. I had innumerable places to ride within 20 minutes of my door, 3 of which I regularly rode the mtb to. Could have ridden to more if I didn't have such a distaste for riding the mtb on the road. No probs with road bike on the roads. Speaking of which, I also really prefer East Coast rode biking to CO.


But there's that pesky humidity and bugs in the east that Colorado doesn't have. First world problems.


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## paulendo (Sep 12, 2009)

David R said:


> For me the answer to that question would be Nelson, New Zealand. But seems how you're not from here you're sh!t outa luck at the moment sorry!!


David, how's the Nelson weather? Are you trail riding all year round? After 20 years in California, I'll be moving back to NZ most likely next year. Still deciding where I want to live once I get back there.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Sedona, AZ (ride year round, employment and housing costs could be a burden, unless you are educated and can take a virtual job. Working on east coast time would benefit you because you could do looong rides in afternoon. Probably ride 360 days out of the year. 
Pros:
Its sedona
Trails are well mapped and signed and most on trailforks.
All of sedona is ride in ride out to some extent. 
The views, OMG the views. 
Wildly steep rock faces to play on. 
You can go to flagstaff to ride and for snow sports.

Cons:
Its an old community and a tourist destination. Hope you like italian food and pizza because thats 50% of the restaurants. (pro for me)
Not a lot of water access for fueling rides. Plan accordingly. 
If you don’t like tech and exposure you may not enjoy it. there is not a lot of beginner friendly terrain. 

Bentonville, AR
Youthful, tons of opportunities for jobs. Cost of living js lowest of all three. 

Cons:
It gets very cold, it rains a lot at times and you do deal with frost/thaw. With that being said, you still have rain routs you can ride most days within a day of the rain moving on. 
Not much chunky tech, but you can drive to Fayetteville to get real chunk at Kessler. 

Pros:
Its disneyland for biking. 
You have private and public funding of trail building with new stuff being built every day.
You will really learn to jump. It has the most progression and park stuff of all three wigh more arriving each day. 
Not a huge amount of races available. (Thats a downside for someone like me)

You could probably ride trails 320+ days per year but conditions may only be nice for 300

Austin TX

City life, burb life, country life, its up to you. lots of opportunity for employment. Extremely young average age. The vibe is cool, if you dont like it, there is a part of town that probably has what you want. 

Austin is a sneaky MTB city. We have over 300 miles of trail. 150miles accessible ride in ride out from your house if you live south of Town Lake. 

Pros:
Lots of super technical trails.
Great XC and Enduro Scene. One of the strongest in the country in quantity of racing and participation. 
Lift access park an hour away if you need that. 
No snow

Cons:
MOST of the good stuff is unmapped, so it will take you a while to learn routes and the raddest trails. You will be discovering new trails for years though which ja kind of a Pro. 
If you don’t like tech or creating speed under your own power it may not be for you. 
No descents over 400 feet, but plenty of wild stuff. 
No snow for winter sports. 


You could probably ride 340 days per year due to letting trails dry. Its the hottest of all 3 in the summer. If you ride every day you will acclimatize. If not, july-September may be soul sucking. Just ride every day! Same in sedona, except you get monsoon season which keeps things relatively mild in texas terms. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk saw


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Skeptastic said:


> Ah okay. I only wrote that because I initially read it as England myself, haha! And you're right, it's NW Arkansas that'll slide you 10k to relocate. Pretty cool deal.


And they give you a MTB, but I bet it will come from Walmart!


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

They give you $600 toward the bike


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I’m genuinely confused by recommendations of places without actual mountains. Or even big hills. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> I'm genuinely confused by recommendations of places without actual mountains. Or even big hills.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mountains are where it's at.

BTW, New Mexico has a lot of national forest land (and blm land, open space land), with lots and lots of trees and elevation. Not just typical desert riding.






It's High Desert.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

paulendo said:


> David, how's the Nelson weather? Are you trail riding all year round? After 20 years in California, I'll be moving back to NZ most likely next year. Still deciding where I want to live once I get back there.


I'm in Northland, not Nelson (unfortunately!). I'd say Nelson has one of the best climates in the country, high sunshine hours and mild-ish winters with just enough seasonal variation to keep things interesting. Northland ain't bad, but the riding is definitely far better in Nelson (house prices too). Nelson has great riding right close to town, plus trail centres like Wairoa Gorge and Kaiteretere Bike park and true back-country epics like Ghost Road, Nydia Bay, Wakamarina etc all within an easy day trip. I've only visited in the summer but I can't see why you couldn't be riding year round.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Just the facts, ma'am.

Mountains of Arkansas








Mountains of Arkansas | Arkansas.com


The Natural State is home to two distinct mountain ranges: the Ouachitas and the Ozarks. Both lie predominately in the western half of the state, but they are quite different.




www.arkansas.com





Mountains of Texas (yes)




__





Franklin Mountains State Park — Texas Parks & Wildlife Department







tpwd.texas.gov





There's also modern research to show that heat training pays dividends, as does the humidity make you look younger than arid climates. So y'all come, or don't, it's a great place to be and I've already applied for the relo program.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

chomxxo said:


> Just the facts, ma'am.
> 
> Mountains of Arkansas
> 
> ...


Driving at posted speed limits, it's an 8.5hr drive from Austin to El Paso.

Similarly, the relocation program you are talking about is in Bentonville. Mt. Magazine is two plus hours away from there. This is Bentonville:










I don't know if the first one was named ironically, but, either way, it gets the point across.

If you like it, great, but there are no mountains in Bentonville.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I get it, Colorado is awesome, but it's not the ONLY place for mountain biking. Unlike a lot of people on this thread, I have visited every state mentioned so far, and ridden there (other than New England, which I've only visited on business). I've raced the Wilderness 100 through PA however.

For one thing there's base elevation vs. peak. So just because the rockies peak at 14ers doesn't mean you're getting 14000 foot straight up climbs. Breckenridge's base elevation is 9-10,000 feet, with 12-13k peaks. Denver's base elevation is 5000.

Yes there are mountains in Arkansas and they're not that far away. Yes Bentonville is relatively flat but you are closer than 2 hours away from mountains, they're all around you. Le Duke, if you actually visited instead of Strava surveying, I think you'd like it 

BTW the Franklin mountains of El Paso have a peak of over 7,200 feet and a base elevation of about 3500. Real mountains with snow caps on top, in fact they're the beginnings of the Rocky Mountains. Yes Texas is big, we know this  Flat or mountainous, Texas also has one of the most competitive racing series in America, due to the large population and many resources in our massively prosperous cities. The money to blow around here is a little obscene, but it's better than being a have-not and working at a bike shop...


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Kinda odd to argue about "mountains". There are 3 Mountain Ranges in the US, everything between The Rockies and the Appalachians are "hills".

Regardless of semantics, you can still get a ton of elevation gain on trails the go up and down "hills", it all has to do with trail design and built-in elevation changes. You can also get very little elevation gain in the "mountains" if the trail is not designed to climb or descend. You can also have a ton of fun riding trails that seem flat. I rode Gooseberry Mesa in Utah and I thought it was a pretty flat area, got back to the car and strava said nearly 1000' of elevation gain.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Meh, much of the sierras are just gigantic rolling hills once you're in them. Kind of like northern Arizona.. but I mean, I guess we don't have mountains either  

The local mountains are much, much, steeper and rougher than either (and so too are parts of the Appalachians). But I guess at about over 9k those are hills too.

This has become a ridiculous measuring contest.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

dysfunction said:


> Meh, much of the sierras are just gigantic rolling hills once you're in them. Kind of like northern Arizona.. but I mean, I guess we don't have mountains either
> 
> The local mountains are much, much, steeper and rougher than either (and so too are parts of the Appalachians). But I guess at about over 9k those are hills too.
> 
> This has become a ridiculous measuring contest.


Exactly. I don't see how it is important for the discussion.

There is a pretty large Volcanic Mountain in Flagstaff, hits over 11k.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> Kinda odd to argue about "mountains". There are 3 Mountain Ranges in the US, everything between The Rockies and the Appalachians are "hills".
> 
> Regardless of semantics, you can still get a ton of elevation gain on trails the go up and down "hills", it all has to do with trail design and built-in elevation changes. You can also get very little elevation gain in the "mountains" if the trail is not designed to climb or descend. You can also have a ton of fun riding trails that seem flat. I rode Gooseberry Mesa in Utah and I thought it was a pretty flat area, got back to the car and strava said nearly 1000' of elevation gain.


There are plenty of very old mountain ranges that ppl don't consider to be mountains because they're old and eroded. Who cares? They're very old mountains. Okay, they're not snowcapped. Oooo. I've ridden my bike on tall mountains, flat ground, rolling hills, etc. Given a choice, I like the interest that bigger mountains provide. But I'm not such a snob that I can't find plenty of enjoyment (different enjoyment, but enjoyment all the same) in other places.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Harold said:


> There are plenty of very old mountain ranges that ppl don't consider to be mountains because they're old and eroded. Who cares? They're very old mountains. Okay, they're not snowcapped. Oooo. I've ridden my bike on tall mountains, flat ground, rolling hills, etc. Given a choice, I like the interest that bigger mountains provide. But I'm not such a snob that I can't find plenty of enjoyment (different enjoyment, but enjoyment all the same) in other places.


You have basically described the appalachians... lol

A good trail is a good trail. Don't matter if it is in the desert, plains, mountains, forest or any other type of terrain.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> You have basically described the appalachians... lol
> 
> A good trail is a good trail. Don't matter if it is in the desert, plains, mountains, forest or any other type of terrain.


There are much older mountains than the Appalachians, and the Appalachians, at that, are not uniformly old.









9 Oldest Mountain Ranges in the World - Oldest.org


Discover the 9 Oldest Mountain Ranges in the World here. Prepare to be transported into a rich & fascinating history on the oldest mountain ranges that exist.




www.oldest.org


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

chomxxo said:


> I get it, Colorado is awesome, but it's not the ONLY place for mountain biking. Unlike a lot of people on this thread, I have visited every state mentioned so far, and ridden there (other than New England, which I've only visited on business). I've raced the Wilderness 100 through PA however.
> 
> For one thing there's base elevation vs. peak. So just because the rockies peak at 14ers doesn't mean you're getting 14000 foot straight up climbs. Breckenridge's base elevation is 9-10,000 feet, with 12-13k peaks. Denver's base elevation is 5000.
> 
> ...


I've ridden in Texas many times. On a scale of 1-10 for mountain biking, I'd give it about a 2. First, literally no one is going to drive the 6 hours or whatever to EP and there are a few trails around there, but that's a pretty brutal location for the summer without much relief. Other trails interspersed throughout the state are usually on a few acres, lots of private land where you pay or can't ride all the time, not much "mountain biking" feel, going miles and miles in the wilderness up on a mountain ridge, etc.

Did Bentonville too, returning after many years since I was in AR in the same area. It's probably the best riding in a few hundred miles for sure, but that's about it. I agree you don't need 14,000' peaks, are peaks are not that high and if they were, they'd be solid glacial ice, but it's about a combination of the elevation relief and experience. Bentonville definitely doesn't do it for me, nor do any of these places that are brutal in the summer or that don't have easy escape routes for the summer (like an hour up to cool mountains).


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

The focus on mountains might be misplaced as far as riding goes. 

Compared to the rolling hills of PA, where I grew up riding, the mountains of MT, where I've lived these past 20+ years, are actually a bit boring for MTB riding. Most of our rides start out with miles and miles of steady climbing followed by miles and miles of downhill. Knowing that the fun won't start until you've climbed for 5 or 10 miles can really dampen the enthusiasm. 

When I think of places with "mountains" they tend to be places with real winters too, so short biking seasons.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm surprised there's not more focus on soil & weather along with elevation. Some popular destination's soil is just terrible. Bend comes to mind. 

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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Soil? You mean everyone doesn't love dust over crust and volcanic rocks?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

chomxxo said:


> I get it, Colorado is awesome, but it's not the ONLY place for mountain biking. Unlike a lot of people on this thread, I have visited every state mentioned so far, and ridden there (other than New England, which I've only visited on business). I've raced the Wilderness 100 through PA however.
> 
> For one thing there's base elevation vs. peak. So just because the rockies peak at 14ers doesn't mean you're getting 14000 foot straight up climbs. Breckenridge's base elevation is 9-10,000 feet, with 12-13k peaks. Denver's base elevation is 5000.
> 
> ...


If you read the entire thread, you'll see that I make no mention of Colorado. I'm not sure why you think I'm talking about CO.

The only state I mention specifically is New Mexico.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

As a CO native, I think that the degree to which it's "discovered" cancels out much of it's outdoor allure. In particular, living on the front range rather sucks because it's traffic everywhere, and mobbed trails. Boulder hate's mountain bikes. Golden's cool, but it's too close to Denver, which means, mobbed. Colorado Springs has some truly cool trails, but I have nightmares about all of the gravel surfing. Having to get on I-70 will make you suffer. So, your best bet for mtb in CO is to live right at a trail system. The mountain towns (Winter Park, Breck, Eagle, Crested Butte, etc.) have unbelievable biking (and skiing) but no economy to support residents. So, CO is mostly for Californians (and New Yorkers) to work remotely and pretend to be "super into the outdoors" by sitting in their car for a few hours to drive to the trailhead.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Funny thread, we get one like this every year or so. The search function is your friend.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

bikeranzin said:


> . So, your best bet for mtb in CO is to live right at a trail system.


That's pretty much your best bet throughout the west. The scale's pretty vast (it sounds trite, but it's true). I'm fortunate that I live right at the base of two of our local ranges, yet I still drove an hour this weekend to go ride other trails


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

There are quite a few towns with good nearby or embedded trail systems. But if you are serious about _living_ there, I think you need to focus on the community and if you can see yourself as a member there. Of course, one could just ride and not do much else but at that point you are more or less a tourist - which is fine but a lasting and rewarding lifestyle is typically attained by being a part of the community. Sort of the difference between looking at the scenery and being in the scenery.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

WHALENARD said:


> I'm surprised there's not more focus on soil & weather along with elevation. Some popular destination's soil is just terrible. Bend comes to mind.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


The soil here in Colorado is terrible.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

The Colorado I've seen is amazing, and I'll definitely couch surf in Colorado Springs when Spring comes, pardon the pun. It's almost worth bearing out the winter. When we talk about closeness to riding however,, we should bear in mind that it does have its seasonal down time. You could be right out the door of trails in the mountains, and those mountains could be covered in several feet of snow.

Not a problem here in flaltitude. It's a difference in temperament for sure, and I'm sure you mountain men can't stand the heat and humidity down here in Texas or Arkansas, just like you said. By the same token I hate the cold, man. Much below 25* F and I'm out. As I mentioned, heat training has its benefits though, just as my buddy is getting his altitude training, sometimes you have to tough it out in the heat, and that pays dividends. There's no shortcuts.

Your candid assessment of the economic situation is much appreciated. Sure CO or New Mexico is great for the independently wealthy, but when it comes to making a living, New Mexico is a poor state--that's a fact. Colorado is not a poor state but the acrimonious trail situation in some cases sounds like a real drag. We handle that kind of thing frontier justice style down here in Texas 

There are parts of NM and AZ that I've been to are blazing hot, Tempe is hot enough to melt your tires during summer, so TX and AR are mild and temperate by comparison. Having shade trees helps too, and in humid climates you don't run nearly as much risk of dehydration.

As for New Mexico, been through several parts and... while I think Santa Fe is cool, I preferred Sedona, AZ. I practically had a religious experience out there. It's got a little more tree cover and is just gorgeous, the red slick rock. New Mexico's terrain is a little more ragged. If you like wide-open desert, cool, I just don't think it's tops for aesthetics. I'd put Sedona, AZ and Utah (Moab) above New Mexico for the experience.

And don't be telling me about green chiles when we've got TexMex as well as anything else you could think up for cuisine in Texas. Arkansas on the other hand, there's the chicken fried steak, and tacos, and that's about it, although Bentonville is an oasis of the cosmopolitan, quite surprising.



bikeranzin said:


> As a CO native, I think that the degree to which it's "discovered" cancels out much of it's outdoor allure. In particular, living on the front range rather sucks because it's traffic everywhere, and mobbed trails. Boulder hate's mountain bikes. Golden's cool, but it's too close to Denver, which means, mobbed. Colorado Springs has some truly cool trails, but I have nightmares about all of the gravel surfing. Having to get on I-70 will make you suffer. So, your best bet for mtb in CO is to live right at a trail system. The mountain towns (Winter Park, Breck, Eagle, Crested Butte, etc.) have unbelievable biking (and skiing) but no economy to support residents. So, CO is mostly for Californians (and New Yorkers) to work remotely and pretend to be "super into the outdoors" by sitting in their car for a few hours to drive to the trailhead.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

David R said:


> I'm in Northland, not Nelson (unfortunately!). I'd say Nelson has one of the best climates in the country, high sunshine hours and mild-ish winters with just enough seasonal variation to keep things interesting. Northland ain't bad, but the riding is definitely far better in Nelson (house prices too). Nelson has great riding right close to town, plus trail centres like Wairoa Gorge and Kaiteretere Bike park and true back-country epics like Ghost Road, Nydia Bay, Wakamarina etc all within an easy day trip. I've only visited in the summer but I can't see why you couldn't be riding year round.


I'm happy to know there is now a bike park at Kaiteretere! That is one of my favorite places to have ever visited. Many years ago I decided that someday I'd try to spend some retirement time there, but was concerned about the lack of biking there at the time. I still look forward to returning there one day. Our last two visits had us in different parts of the country. How does the Kaiteretere bike park compare to the Rotorua Redwoods bike park?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Desert is nice to visit IMO, but I wouldn't want to live in one. 
Same goes for cities. 

As far as southern New England goes, the area consistently rates in the best areas in the US to live and work. Low crime, high education, strong economic opportunities, and unless you live in the city, it's very likely there are trails within minutes of home. 

I also didn't realize we had a shortage of mountains; seems to be the opposite of my experience.. We probably have the highest concentration of DH venues anywhere I can think of, not to mention almost 100 ski areas within a few hours' drive. Can't be all that flat.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

WHALENARD said:


> I'm surprised there's not more focus on soil & weather along with elevation. Some popular destination's soil is just terrible. Bend comes to mind.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


We do have some amazing loam where I live. Brown pow is incredible to ride.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

WA has an incredible diversity of trails with year-round riding. Really magnificent mountains. All the culture you could want. You can ski and ride on the same day!

But....the winter riding is typically very wet, cold, and dark. The cost of living is ridiculous. The traffic is horrendous. You rarely see the sun during the winter. I'm a native and even I think the people here are cold and not too friendly compared to other places. Much of all that can be avoided by living on the eastern side of the mountains.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Curveball said:


> We do have some amazing loam where I live. Brown pow is incredible to ride.


Shhhhhh

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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> The soil here in Colorado is terrible.
> 
> View attachment 1908984


That looks almost exactly like Mission Trails here in San Diego, specifically one I hike & bike a lot. I had to do a double-take.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

the one ring said:


> That looks almost exactly like Mission Trails here in San Diego, specifically one I hike & bike a lot. I had to do a double-take.


It might be, DJ used to live in SD..... lol


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Curveball said:


> I'm a native and even I think the people here are cold and not too friendly compared to other places.


Counterintuitive and yet so true. 16 years in and I still don't understand why people in this corner are so layered and reserved. Best guess I've got is all the conservative transplants from the upper mid-west.

Also counterintuitive, NYC was the easiest place to make good friends that I've ever lived.. and just chock full of personality. Here...not so much.

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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I have to have sunshine, so places that are too far from the equator depress me in the winter, as do any places that have too much rain and cloud cover. I don't mind cold temps as long as it is sunny.

I also prefer to be able to ride from my front door because I know I usually won't take the extra steps to load the bike and drive to ride. A few seasons back I rode from my front door for 190 of 196 rides. My home locations have always been chosen based on my recreation priorities and then I found work to allow me to live where I wanted.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Anecdotal experience regarding Seattle;

I found the people to be very friendly and engaging. But I attribute that to myself being very friendly and sociable with anyone I meet.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

sgltrak said:


> I have to have sunshine, so places that are too far from the equator depress me in the winter, as do any places that have too much rain and cloud cover. I don't mind cold temps as long as it is sunny.
> 
> I also prefer to be able to ride from my front door because I know I usually won't take the extra steps to load the bike and drive to ride. A few seasons back I rode from my front door for 190 of 196 rides. My home locations have always been chosen based on my recreation priorities and then I found work to allow me to live where I wanted.


I bought the house I live in back in 2008 because it was less than 1 mile from a trail system.

I rarely drive to any other trail heads.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

sgltrak said:


> My home locations have always been chosen based on my recreation priorities and then I found work to allow me to live where I wanted.


Me too. Following my "genius" or intuition has always worked for me if not exceeded my expectations, every single time. As the saying goes...just showing up is 80% of life.

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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Klurejr said:


> Anecdotal experience regarding Seattle;
> 
> I found the people to be very friendly and engaging. But I attribute that to myself being very friendly and sociable with anyone I meet.


Coming from up north, and being very social myself, I still find the people in and around Seattle to be pretty cold.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

WHALENARD said:


> Counterintuitive and yet so true. 16 years in and I still don't understand why people in this corner are so layered and reserved. Best guess I've got is all the conservative transplants from the upper mid-west.
> 
> Also counterintuitive, NYC was the easiest place to make good friends that I've ever lived.. and just chock full of personality. Here...not so much.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


I don't know, almost everyone that I've ever met from the upper midwest has been super friendly. I don't think that I've ever met someone from that part of the country that I didn't immediately like.

I've never been to NYC, but I thought the people in Syracuse were very cool.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Curveball said:


> I don't know, almost everyone that I've ever met from the upper midwest has been super friendly. I don't think that I've ever met someone from that part of the country that I didn't immediately like.


Ditto, and would say that about any wholesome open personally. My theory (lol, I know I'm reaching here) is once you leave a low population density with tight knit relationships and move to a bigger city your guard goes up and trust becomes less reliable.

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Curveball said:


> I don't know, almost everyone that I've ever met from the upper midwest has been super friendly. I don't think that I've ever met someone from that part of the country that I didn't immediately like.
> 
> I've never been to NYC, but I thought the people in Syracuse were very cool.


I'm FROM the midwest and tend to feel like most midwesterners and southerners are quite warm and friendly, outwardly. even if they hate you. I think it's funny when people encounter visit a midwestern city for the first time and are unnerved by being greeted on the street by random strangers.

The PNW and New England are two areas I've not been. But of the places I HAVE, I found people in Pittsburgh to be the most difficult to socialize with. Not sure I'd put them as cold as folks from Seattle has been described, but absolutely insular and aloof.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

In my experience, places where people are more outwardly friendly I've made fewer real friends. In places where people are more reserved, the friends I've made there have been a much deeper relationship.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Funny thread, we get one like this every year or so. The search function is your friend.


Info changes as time moves on. So searching old thread will have old info.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

chomxxo said:


> BTW the Franklin mountains of El Paso have a peak of over 7,200 feet and a base elevation of about 3500. Real mountains with snow caps on top, in fact they're the beginnings of the Rocky Mountains. Yes Texas is big, we know this  Flat or mountainous, Texas also has one of the most competitive racing series in America, due to the large population and many resources in our massively prosperous cities. The money to blow around here is a little obscene, but it's better than being a have-not and working at a bike shop...


It's kind of funny that I _know_ Texas has mountains, but I can't keep from thinking that it's entirely flat.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

dysfunction said:


> In my experience, places where people are more outwardly friendly I've made fewer real friends. In places where people are more reserved, the friends I've made there have been a much deeper relationship.


I've definitely noticed that people are superficially more friendly in many of the places I've travelled than in much of New England. It's definitely easier to strike up conversations with strangers in other places.

On the flip side though, most of the people I know who've moved away from here mirror your sentiment.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Harold said:


> I'm FROM the midwest and tend to feel like most midwesterners and southerners are quite warm and friendly, outwardly. even if they hate you. I think it's funny when people encounter visit a midwestern city for the first time and are unnerved by being greeted on the street by random strangers.
> 
> The PNW and New England are two areas I've not been. But of the places I HAVE, I found people in Pittsburgh to be the most difficult to socialize with. Not sure I'd put them as cold as folks from Seattle has been described, but absolutely insular and aloof.


Harold, you should really visit here. The riding is pretty different from other areas and the glacier-covered mountains are incredible. Quite a few of the trails are very steep with massive roots and rocks. A two mile descent can give you a pretty hard workout. Hitting those steep lines though is made easier by the tacky dirt. If it isn't too wet, then you can get some real hero dirt. I think you'd have an awesome time here.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Curveball said:


> It's kind of funny that I _know_ Texas has mountains, but I can't keep from thinking that it's entirely flat.


Fun fact, the Republic of Texas also included most of New Mexico and Colorado, so imagine all the MTB possibilities back in the 1800s.

As they say, why is everyone in Texas so polite? Because we all have guns!

As mentioned I've been to most of the places discussed so far and had a good time, plus many more. If you came and saw somewhere and didn't find a way to enjoy yourself, that's your problem. I know the best spots in Texas, like Camp Eagle or El Paso, and they're amazing. When I travel somewhere, I do my research and find them there.

I'd love to spend more time in my wife's native country and explore the Carpathians--now that's pure nature, and the coldness of the people make a Starbuck's iced coffee served in Seattle look warm, ha!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> I've definitely noticed that people are superficially more friendly in many of the places I've travelled than in much of New England. It's definitely easier to strike up conversations with strangers in other places.
> 
> On the flip side though, most of the people I know who've moved away from here mirror your sentiment.


Someday I'd really like to visit New England and Quebec. The trails there look quite awesome and techy. Great scenery and beer too from what I can tell.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

chomxxo said:


> As they say, why is everyone in Texas so polite? Because we all have guns!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Curveball said:


> Harold, you should really visit here. The riding is pretty different from other areas and the glacier-covered mountains are incredible. Quite a few of the trails are very steep with massive roots and rocks. A two mile descent can give you a pretty hard workout. Hitting those steep lines though is made easier by the tacky dirt. If it isn't too wet, then you can get some real hero dirt. I think you'd have an awesome time here.


No doubt I'd have fun. Have wanted to for a long time, and so far my only chance wasn't much of a chance. Was supposed to tag along with my wife to a work conference of hers to Seattle. Then I got cancer, and then right before she was supposed to leave, I got sepsis. I had so much more fun, eh?


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Harold said:


> No doubt I'd have fun. Have wanted to for a long time, and so far my only chance wasn't much of a chance. Was supposed to tag along with my wife to a work conference of hers to Seattle. Then I got cancer, and then right before she was supposed to leave, I got sepsis. I had so much more fun, eh?


Yikes! Well, you still have time. If you can get up this way, I can hook you up with a bike, trails, and beer.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> But there's that pesky humidity and bugs in the east that Colorado doesn't have. First world problems.


Totally. Trying to outrun the mosquitos and flies helped keep me in shape....then there's DEET and permethrin. Ticks were unbelievable at times.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

bikeranzin said:


> So, your best bet for mtb in CO is to live right at a trail system.


Speaking of which: anyone ever ridden in Ogden, UT? I have not...but I was there for about a week and ran. Trails were about 5-20 blocks from hotel and were pretty fun. You can't cover nearly as much ground on foot, but there seemed to be a bunch of trails.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Curveball said:


> Yikes! Well, you still have time. If you can get up this way, I can hook you up with a bike, trails, and beer.


I'd honestly like to do a road trip with my camper.

So trails and beer would probably be all I'd need.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

PHeller said:


> ...The biggest issue I found back east was the limited public land. In order to "get on dirt" (I hate riding road) - I had to drive 20-30 minutes to get to trails...


Opposite of my experience. I rode to trails from my home in MA, and had dozens of places to ride within a 30 minute drive. Virtually none of these areas were built or maintained for mtbing, though there were a few that were They were all largely rough and technical with virtually no flow. There were also no resitriction or problems riding in the wet and rain. There were so many places to ride that mtbers were pretty spread out and often I'd see only one or two other riders in a two hour ride.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

smartyiak said:


> Speaking of which: anyone ever ridden in Ogden, UT? I have not...but I was there for about a week and ran. Trails were about 5-20 blocks from hotel and were pretty fun. You can't cover nearly as much ground on foot, but there seemed to be a bunch of trails.


I went there for my honeymoon about 20 years ago. The trails were amazing.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

I want to say Arizona, but I like trees.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

If I could live anywhere I wanted, it would be Squamish, BC. Amazing trails there with skiing just up the highway. And I love Canada.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Train Wreck said:


> I want to say Arizona, but I like trees.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Train Wreck said:


> I want to say Arizona, but I like trees.


You might be surprised to know that Arizona has trees. Mostly up north.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Curveball said:


> You might be surprised to know that Arizona has trees. Mostly up north.


What a pleasant surprise that is. Arizona, final answer.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Shush, we have no trees. Nothing but Tatooine here. 

I'm off to toshe station, to pick up some power convertors.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Lone Rager said:


> Opposite of my experience. I rode to trails from my home in MA, and had dozens of places to ride within a 30 minute drive. Virtually none of these areas were built or maintained for mtbing. They were all largely rough and technical with virtually no flow. There were also no resitriction or problems riding in the wet and rain. There were so many places to ride that mtbers were pretty spread out and often I'd see only one or two other riders in a two hour ride.


This was more or less my experience growing up in the tri-state area. One thing I've not found matched anywhere is the diversity of trail I had access to. The same could be said for road riding nor do I remember people getting run over as part of life.

I still have many friends there and they are hyper vigilant about riding wet trails now though.

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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

dysfunction said:


> Shush, we have no trees. Nothing but Tatooine here.
> 
> I'm off to toshe station, to pick up some power convertors.


You can waste time with your friends when your chores are done.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

sgltrak said:


> How does the Kaiteretere bike park compare to the Rotorua Redwoods bike park?


I've never actually ridden it, when I visit there I'm after the back country epics with all the technical rocky rooty goodness I can find! It's pretty popular I believe and friends who have ridden it enjoyed it. Being able to head out early for a ride before it gets too hot and then spend the afternoon relaxing at the beach sounds pretty appealing to me!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Lone Rager said:


> Totally. Trying to outrun the mosquitos and flies helped keep me in shape....then there's DEET and permethrin. Ticks were unbelievable at times.


lol
I've been there before having spent my early years in Upstate NY.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

David R said:


> I've never actually ridden it, when I visit there I'm after the back country epics with all the technical rocky rooty goodness I can find! It's pretty popular I believe and friends who have ridden it enjoyed it. Being able to head out early for a ride before it gets too hot and then spend the afternoon relaxing at the beach sounds pretty appealing to me!


Nice! I prefer technical back country epic type rides over park riding too, but did enjoy Whakarewarewa Forest during one visit. Thanks for the info.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

sgltrak said:


> Nice! I prefer technical back country epic type rides over park riding too, but did enjoy Whakarewarewa Forest during one visit. Thanks for the info.


Oh yeah I enjoy both for sure, but my time in Nelson is usually fairly limited so I try to make the most of it by doing rides that are different to what I get here. One day I'll spend a week in a batch at Kaiteretere with the family so I can spend some time in the bike park there!


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## 3blackbikes (May 4, 2011)

There are pros and cons to every town as far as living goes.

My best advice is have a top 5 of places, then throw your resume around to all those places. First one to bite, go move there and get acquainted for a couple of years. If you like it, stay. If not, repeat the process over again.

That's how I've come to spend time in the Front Range CO (Denver and COS), Vail, upstate NY, Georgia, Flagstaff, San Diego, and most recently Durango CO. Threw out resumes and went for it. Durango has been the one that stuck, we've been here 8 years after spending 2-3 years in all those other places. FWIW I got a career in health care moving along the way as well.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I like where I am just west of Big Bear in the San Bernardino Mountains. Plenty of trails, some locals only, three bike parks and three ski resorts within 20 miles, four seasons, desert and pine forest riding, two race venues, five local lakes for fishing. I'm just in from shoveling 20 inches of snow but there's riding and T shirt weather 15 minutes down the hill. I'm an hour from the surf and there's major airports close by so I can fly anywhere on Earth. We make more money in CA too and if you can breath air you can find a decent job.

The cons. Tourists.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Lots of mentions of Flagstaff, but what about Show Low/Pinetop area. Another place I’ve never ridden, but spent some time running (at least until I saw the mtn lion signs 😬). There was also a long photo thread on here not long ago.

Seems like it’s legit.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I also have been looking at Cottonwood, AZ for the close proximity to Sedona and Prescott, and Flag. Cottonwood is priced right and has a nice downtown scene. I tried Prescott but it's growing too fast and has traffic.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Curveball said:


> If I could live anywhere I wanted, it would be Squamish, BC. Amazing trails there with skiing just up the highway. And I love Canada.


 Yep. I've often said the very same thing. The trails in Squamish are mind blowing and abundant... and being added to every year. Not sure what the year round riding opportunities are and not sure I'd like the short winter days and wet weather, but dang I love the trails up there and every time I've been the weather has been perfect and sunny and the dirt was awesome (I'm sure it's not always like that). North Van and Whistler are also close and dozens of other locations with a wealth of awesome trails (Nelson, Revelstoke, Pemberton, Kamloops, Okanagan, Vancouver Island The Chilcotins, etc) aren't too far away either.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

milehi said:


> I like where I am just west of Big Bear in the San Bernardino Mountains. Plenty of trails, some locals only, three bike parks and three ski resorts within 20 miles, four seasons, desert and pine forest riding, two race venues, five local lakes for fishing. I'm just in from shoveling 20 inches of snow but there's riding and T shirt weather 15 minutes down the hill. I'm an hour from the surf and there's major airports close by so I can fly anywhere on Earth. We make more money in CA too and if you can breath air you can find a decent job.
> 
> The cons. Tourists.


Making more is relative considering the cost of living out there, you aren't really making more.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

milehi said:


> I like where I am just west of Big Bear in the San Bernardino Mountains. Plenty of trails, some locals only, three bike parks and three ski resorts within 20 miles, four seasons, desert and pine forest riding, two race venues, five local lakes for fishing. I'm just in from shoveling 20 inches of snow but there's riding and T shirt weather 15 minutes down the hill. I'm an hour from the surf and there's major airports close by so I can fly anywhere on Earth. We make more money in CA too and if you can breath air you can find a decent job.
> 
> The cons. Tourists.


I know the area you are in and I agree. Those that have never been there wouldn't understand. Once a hidden gem that area now is inundated with tourists but if you can deal with that it's a pretty amazing place with lots within reach.


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## Andrew8404 (Nov 20, 2011)

milehi said:


> I like where I am just west of Big Bear in the San Bernardino Mountains. Plenty of trails, some locals only, three bike parks and three ski resorts within 20 miles, four seasons, desert and pine forest riding, two race venues, five local lakes for fishing. I'm just in from shoveling 20 inches of snow but there's riding and T shirt weather 15 minutes down the hill. I'm an hour from the surf and there's major airports close by so I can fly anywhere on Earth. We make more money in CA too and if you can breath air you can find a decent job.
> 
> The cons. Tourists.


Yuck no thanks. Such a terrible state to live in. Some cool trails but way too many people, smog, traffic, and cost of living. I'd move to NorCal before I'd go to Big Bear or anywhere in SoCal. Moving from there was the best decision I've ever made. But either way you would have to pay me at least a million to move back. And not a fan of the bike park it's pretty small and not a lot fun techy sections. I know they've added some trails but after going to a real bike park it doesn't hold a candle to others.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

milehi said:


> I like where I am just west of Big Bear in the San Bernardino Mountains. Plenty of trails, some locals only, three bike parks and three ski resorts within 20 miles, four seasons, desert and pine forest riding, two race venues, five local lakes for fishing. I'm just in from shoveling 20 inches of snow but there's riding and T shirt weather 15 minutes down the hill. I'm an hour from the surf and there's major airports close by so I can fly anywhere on Earth. We make more money in CA too and if you can breath air you can find a decent job.
> 
> The cons. Tourists.


Lake Arrowhead?

I used to live in San Diego proper, we were just up the hill from Pacific Beach in a place called Bay Park. We lived just outside the tourist zone so it was never bad by our house, but we went to church in PB and during the summer our drives down there on Sunday's were horrendous, tourists everywhere.

My boss bought a Cabin in Big Bear, up the valley near Bear Resort and some friends of ours have a Cabin just outisde of the village right next to what used to be a Ski Resort that is just open hillsides where the runs used to be. I love it up there.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

TwoTone said:


> Making more is relative considering the cost of living out there, you aren't really making more.


If you can work from home that might not be the case. If it was possible to go full time remote with my job I could make a California Salary and live in Northern Arizona...... that would be amazing.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

milehi said:


> I also have been looking at Cottonwood, AZ for the close proximity to Sedona and Prescott, and Flag. Cottonwood is priced right and has a nice downtown scene. I tried Prescott but it's growing too fast and has traffic.


Flagstaff is the Top Spot in Arizona my wife and I want to go to. I have a constant search for jobs there in my linkedIn, but nothing promising has turned up in the last 2 years.... Her sister lives in Prescott Valley, just north-east of Prescott. It is nice, but I would want to live in the mountainous part of Prescott if we went there. My wife is not a fan of Prescott, so I don't think it will happen, however te Mountain Biking there is amazing.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Andrew8404 said:


> Yuck no thanks. Such a terrible state to live in. Some cool trails but way too many people, smog, traffic, and cost of living. I'd move to NorCal before I'd go to Big Bear or anywhere in SoCal. Moving from there was the best decision I've ever made. But either way you would have to pay me at least a million to move back. And not a fan of the bike park it's pretty small and not a lot fun techy sections. I know they've added some trails but after going to a real bike park it doesn't hold a candle to others.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Which bike park? I can ride from the house to Skypark but never go there. I like Snow Valley because all my friends ride and work there. I only ride Summit when I race there but it's the full bike park experience. There's so many clandestine trails up here, it's all I ride. I haven't rode off the mountain in over ten years beside road trips to Kernville or out of state, or international trips to ride.


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## Andrew8404 (Nov 20, 2011)

Not a fan of Snow Summit. It’s been a few years and I know they’ve added more trails since I’ve been but it’s still a small mountain with not a lot of trails compared to bigger bike parks.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Klurejr said:


> Flagstaff is the Top Spot in Arizona my wife and I want to go to.


It's a matter or taste. Love AZ but Flag is too cold in the winter and winters are too long. Cool town and I'm sure there's nice riding but for me the lower deserts are more scenic and have more variety.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Show Low/Pinetop doesn't have much of a "downtown" - Pinetop hardly no center at all. It's not a very young population, and what young people do live there are pretty conservative. I know the area fairly well and would never call it "vibrant". It is growing though, but folks out there seem to avoid subdivision - so all the lot sizes are big. I don't get the feeling it's a "get out a meet your neighbors" type of place. Big new medical center. 

More to the topic's point: it's trails are definitely less crowded than Sedona or Flagstaff. Perhaps not as varied. No real big elevation or exposure like we've got in Flagstaff or Sedona. 

I dunno, I think I'd get bored in the White Mountains, but then again, that's because I'm a city person who loves MTB and hates driving to do it, so I'm a weird one.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> It's a matter or taste. Love AZ but Phoenix is too hot in the summer and summers are too long. Cool town and I'm sure there's nice riding but for me the higher mountains are more scenic and have less roasting heat.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

There are only two places in Arizona. Small state.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Sometimes it can feel that way. Poor folks down in Tucson only have like one 6 mile downhill to choose from.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Yea, the entire basin just sucks. Stay away.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

dysfunction said:


> Yea, the entire basin just sucks. Stay away.


I liked living in Surprise. It's in the rain shadow of the White Tanks and is a lot cooler than Phoenix and more lush. I loved riding The Tanks but couldn't stand Surprise's cookie cutter bland look and feel.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Agree. Phoenix is a cesspool (no offense Phoenixians ) There is some awesome yet-unruined desert though and great mountain biking there. As mentioned, a matter of taste.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

PHeller said:


> Show Low/Pinetop doesn't have much of a "downtown" - Pinetop hardly no center at all. It's not a very young population, and what young people do live there are pretty conservative. I know the area fairly well and would never call it "vibrant". It is growing though, but folks out there seem to avoid subdivision - so all the lot sizes are big. I don't get the feeling it's a "get out a meet your neighbors" type of place. Big new medical center.
> 
> More to the topic's point: it's trails are definitely less crowded than Sedona or Flagstaff. Perhaps not as varied. No real big elevation or exposure like we've got in Flagstaff or Sedona.
> 
> I dunno, I think I'd get bored in the White Mountains, but then again, that's because I'm a city person who loves MTB and hates driving to do it, so I'm a weird one.


just looked it up, that is way out there.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

I love the area around Tucson, hunting and MTB both are great down there. But the city of Tucson sucks. 

Greater Phoenix for work and living is fantastic for me. But yeah it’s hot, if you don’t like the heat, it will suck. Friends and family ask me all the time how we handle the heat. I tell them I’ll take 3 months of extreme heat, for 6 months of awesome. My son had a baseball tournament today, and we were complaining about being cold at 60*. Yeah I was a bit chilly, but it’s better than 0* and 3’ of snow.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

milehi said:


> I liked living in Surprise. It's in the rain shadow of the White Tanks and is a lot cooler than Phoenix and more lush. I loved riding The Tanks but couldn't stand Surprise's cookie cutter bland look and feel.


For me, that's most of Maricopa. The cookie-cutterish look/feel. The pueblo's different, well.. was... it seems the blandness is growing, fortunately I don't live in it  I just have national forest (and national park) for neighbors instead. It's hell. Cooler than Phoenix and green.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

dysfunction said:


> For me, that's most of Maricopa. The cookie-cutterish look/feel. The pueblo's different, well.. was... it seems the blandness is growing, fortunately I don't live in it  I just have national forest (and national park) for neighbors instead. It's hell. Cooler than Phoenix and green.


My om moved to Maricopa a year ago. I helped drive her Suburban and trailer out there. I absolutely hated it.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

milehi said:


> I liked living in Surprise. It's in the rain shadow of the White Tanks and is a lot cooler than Phoenix and more lush. I loved riding The Tanks but couldn't stand Surprise's cookie cutter bland look and feel.


As another Surprise resident, that's not just Surprise. That's pretty much every city built up since the mid 90's.

I do understand your point though.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> I'm genuinely confused by recommendations of places without actual mountains. Or even big hills.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You should get out more. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Klurejr said:


> If you can work from home that might not be the case. If it was possible to go full time remote with my job I could make a California Salary and live in Northern Arizona...... that would be amazing.


Point was he lives in CA and said you make more. But I get what you're saying. I have a remote job, in the next 1-2 years I plan on leaving and hoping to go somewhere the cost of living is lower and do well with a DC salary.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

If I had to choose between Flagstaff and Santa Fe I'd choose Santa Fe (but my great job is in Flagstaff), if between ABQ and PHX, I'd choose ABQ. If between Tucson and someplace in southern NM...that'd be a tough one.

I previously said New Zealand was high on my list, but if someone is else is paying for it: Finale Ligure would take the cake. It's California's climate with trails that go from beach to mountain top. Yea, I could live with that.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Been living in So Cal all my life and can't really picture moving somewhere else. We don't really have any "destination" spots for mountain biking...but the weather is mild here year round...and we do have actual mountains here where it's nice to escape the heat in the late summer. Plus I do like the diversity here. I like food...and there is all kinds of food available here.

I think if I do end up leaving CA...in this current environment...it does seem like a possibility. New Mexico, Vegas area, Washington state...even northern AZ sound interesting.

How is the "diversity" in Santa Fe NM and areas like Flagstaff AZ? I've passed through Flagstaff once to go to Sedona...but I don't remember anything besides the Carl's Jr that I ate at.

I wanted to add that I like an area with a good food scene. As in all kinds of food. Friend of mine lives in Austin and he says that they have a pretty good food scene...but i don't think I can handle the humidity. I lived in Northern New Jersey for a couple years and hated the humidity in the summer and the extreme cold in the winter.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> Flagstaff is the Top Spot in Arizona my wife and I want to go to. I have a constant search for jobs there in my linkedIn, but nothing promising has turned up in the last 2 years.... Her sister lives in Prescott Valley, just north-east of Prescott. It is nice, but I would want to live in the mountainous part of Prescott if we went there. My wife is not a fan of Prescott, so I don't think it will happen, however te Mountain Biking there is amazing.


Lifestyle

Flag> Cottonwood> Sedona> Prescott> Prescott Valley
Personal choice. I'm not new age or ******* but I do yoga occasionally and I used to hunt game. Sedona is too expensive and touristy. Prescott is too big and it doesn't have a vibe. Cottonwood has a small town vibe, very good restaurants, lower cost of living and 20 minutes from Sedona and easy access biking.

Mountain biking

Sedona> Flag> Prescott> Cottonwood
Easier to ride in Sedona all year
long.

From red to blue

Prescott valley> Cottonwood> Prescott> Flag> Sedona
Whatever floats your boat

Diversity 
- Well, they all suck, but Flag for the win.

Cost of living

Sedona> Flag> Prescott> Cottonwood
Californians driving up the cost of living

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Sedona is not more blue than Flagstaff. It's more new age, yes, but there is a lot of money in Sedona and a lot of retirees in VOC who have no interest in making those places affordable, meanwhile they are renting their homes on AirBNB while shilling homeopathic cures in between checking the balances of their trust funds, investments, or startups in California or Phoenix. 

Having friends who live there, they struggle to meet "normal" people. That doesn't mean they don't exist in town, but it's definitely not more blue than Flagstaff.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I have a friend in Flag that describes town as poverty with a view.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Please take all these negative comments about Arizona to heart. Do NOT move here.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I thought we agreed not to discuss politics, so lame and prejudicial.

Well all this talk of cool rides has me itching for a road trip. The Winter storms moving in today has me hustling to get on the road and head West as soon as possible. I'll post pics at some of the spots you all recommend (especially the ones so cool that we don't want anybody moving to!)


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## iLuveKetchup (Dec 21, 2020)

Does it get humid in Bentonville? I spent a week there last month, so I don't have enough experience on the climate to judge. Humidity and snow would be a big factor in finding a new home. I am in the NYC suburbs now and have more than enough of both.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Mentioning the political climate, without making judgement calls on it, is fair IMO. If you're looking to move someplace, it could just be important. Just like if I mention that one of the issues, throughout the mountain-west, is water availability. You might want to know that, before moving someplace with a limited resource.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

PHeller said:


> Show Low/Pinetop doesn't have much of a "downtown" - Pinetop hardly no center at all. It's not a very young population, and what young people do live there are pretty conservative. I know the area fairly well and would never call it "vibrant". It is growing though, but folks out there seem to avoid subdivision - so all the lot sizes are big. I don't get the feeling it's a "get out a meet your neighbors" type of place. Big new medical center.
> 
> More to the topic's point: it's trails are definitely less crowded than Sedona or Flagstaff. Perhaps not as varied. No real big elevation or exposure like we've got in Flagstaff or Sedona.
> 
> I dunno, I think I'd get bored in the White Mountains, but then again, that's because I'm a city person who loves MTB and hates driving to do it, so I'm a weird one.


It's funny you say that: Pinetop sure was small...there was like 2 hotels and a pizza shop. But part of the appeal to me was: I am not a city person...even a little bit. It just seemed nice there: some stuff, but not much. Close to a few things, but remote enough that no one wants to go there. 😁


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

dysfunction said:


> Mentioning the political climate, without making judgement calls on it, is fair IMO. If you're looking to move someplace, it could just be important. Just like if I mention that one of the issues, throughout the mountain-west, is water availability. You might want to know that, before moving someplace with a limited resource.


Most of you can't even describe the climate accurately, and the political climate in USA is embarrassing. Maybe you have political opponents in your family--have you disowned and un-friended them?

The population of Houston by itself is larger than many of the states being described; it's the most diverse city in the nation, yet "Texas" brings to mind a political picture that you might think you know, but you clearly don't.








iLuveKetchup said:


> Does it get humid in Bentonville? I spent a week there last month, so I don't have enough experience on the climate to judge. Humidity and snow would be a big factor in finding a new home. I am in the NYC suburbs now and have more than enough of both.


Yes it does get humid, but significantly less than further South. The snowfall has lessened due to climate change, but the max snow you'd ever get is around 6 inches. Bentonville is on a plateau and the town is mostly flat, but just 20 minutes South in Fayetteville is very hilly. Northwest Arkansas is a collection of towns and though from a NYC perspective you'd probably find housing affordable, Bentonville is most expensive due to Walmart Corporate. You'll find better deals the further you move into the hills.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Wow, should I be personally insulted by your assumption of my stupidity?


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## iLuveKetchup (Dec 21, 2020)

chomxxo said:


> Yes it does get humid, but significantly less than further South. The snowfall has lessened due to climate change, but the max snow you'd ever get is around 6 inches. Bentonville is on a plateau and the town is mostly flat, but just 20 minutes South in Fayetteville is very hilly. Northwest Arkansas is a collection of towns and though from a NYC perspective you'd probably find housing affordable, Bentonville is most expensive due to Walmart Corporate. You'll find better deals the further you move into the hills.


Thanks! On another note, I didn't expect North West Arkansas to be so busy. I thought it would be quaint like Brevard NC.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

The bike tourism is really impressive. The Walton heirs have invested around $50-75 million, just in trails, then there's the world class museums and art installations that they've also paid for. When I was coming up, Fayetteville was the center of the action, now it's Bentonville. Since you're a big-city guy like me, I've compared Houston metro to NWA geographically, and it'd basically fit on top of all the major towns, including Beaver Lake vs Lake Houston. Here's some signposts:

Bentonville: Walmart Home Office, Slaughter Pen trail system
Rogers: JB Hunt headquarters, adjacent to the magnificent Beaver Lake
Bella Vista: lakefront properties, Back 40 trail
Springdale: Tyson Foods headquarters
Fayetteville: University of Arkansas
Eureka Springs: old tourist town, really cool with its own DH and racing trails

The entire area is connected by greenways now so you could potentially ride your bike to Missouri without being in traffic. While Bentonville is very cosmo, that rapidly falls away the further you are from the town--you can find some amazing peace and quiet up there, with trails near your doorstep, in under an hour's drive.

I was supposed to be discouraging y'all from heading up there, woops!



iLuveKetchup said:


> Thanks! On another note, I didn't expect North West Arkansas to be so busy. I thought it would be quaint like Brevard NC.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

smartyiak said:


> It's funny you say that: Pinetop sure was small...there was like 2 hotels and a pizza shop. But part of the appeal to me was: I am not a city person...even a little bit. It just seemed nice there: some stuff, but not much. Close to a few things, but remote enough that no one wants to go there. 😁


In the regard it's a nice spot. Pinetop has a few more than 2 hotels, but not many more. Lakeside is where you want to be. One of the few places in AZ where you can live on a lake.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

chomxxo said:


> Houston.....it's the most diverse city in the nation.


Say what?

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> cold at 60*. Yeah I was a bit chilly, but it's better than 0* and 3' of snow.


Too funny, 0F and 3' of snow makes us break out the hats and hooters up here in ski country.

I lived in Tucson ages ago. Our first year there I thought I was going to die from the heat. By year #2 I adapted and it didn't feel quite so bad. Nowadays 35F feels uncomfortably warm when I go play outdoors.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Nat said:


> Too funny, 0F and 3' of snow makes us break out the hats and hooters up here in ski country.
> 
> I lived in Tucson ages ago. Our first year there I thought I was going to die from the heat. By year #2 I adapted and it didn't feel quite so bad. Nowadays 35F feels uncomfortably warm when I go play outdoors.


It's funny how you just get used to things.


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## ulnar-landing (Nov 22, 2020)

dysfunction said:


> It's funny how you just get used to things.


Yeah, right now I get warm riding in 30f, but when I was in new Mexico for a few months, I was pretty comfortable working outside in 90+ temps. Definitely a huge shock when you go from one climate directly to another. Even with the ever changing new England weather, I sometimes feel very cold when it's 50 out in August, but would feel overheated on the same exact day in January.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

WHALENARD said:


> Say what?
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


I too had not heard the Houston was super diverse, but it is very possible. According to the wiki's:








Houston - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org







> The city is home to the nation's third-largest concentration of consular offices, representing 92 countries.


92 nations represented does sound very diverse.

I know here in San Diego over 127 different languages are spoken.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Klurejr said:


> I too had not heard the Houston was super diverse, but it is very possible. According to the wiki's:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would have thought NYC would be #1 but looking at several of these types of stat calculators it's not.








2022’s Most & Least Ethnically Diverse Cities in the U.S.







wallethub.com





Houston is ranked #28

*There's some interesting one's in there

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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

While diversity is cool and all, a lot of immigrants don't move to cities for their outdoor recreation options. Having previously worked in Refugee Resettlement for 8 years, there is definitely a separation in the places where I'd like to live for my lifestyle, and where I'd want to live to best serve stateless people and diverse communities. 

That being said, I never rode with BIPOC fellow MTBers until I moved to AZ.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

dysfunction said:


> It's funny how you just get used to things.


So true, for better or worse.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

ulnar-landing said:


> Yeah, right now I get warm riding in 30f, but when I was in new Mexico for a few months, I was pretty comfortable working outside in 90+ temps. Definitely a huge shock when you go from one climate directly to another. Even with the ever changing new England weather, I sometimes feel very cold when it's 50 out in August, but would feel overheated on the same exact day in January.


I lived in Maine for a month (June) before moving to Phoenix in July, into a house without a/c. That was a harsh transition.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

WHALENARD said:


> Say what?
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


It's a fact that Houston is the most diverse city in the nation. See how little y'all know?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

chomxxo said:


> It's a fact that Houston is the most diverse city in the nation. See how little y'all know?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


nope. look at the chart whale posted above. Houston ranks at #28


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

It's a fact, because the self-professed expert says so. Typisch.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

chomxxo said:


> It's a fact that Houston is the most diverse city in the nation. See how little y'all know?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you have a source?


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Nat said:


> Do you have a source?











2022’s Most & Least Ethnically Diverse Cities in the U.S.







wallethub.com





this shows Houston at #28 for Ethnic and Language Diversity.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> 2022’s Most & Least Ethnically Diverse Cities in the U.S.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I saw that list (Bend, OR represent at #411 btw!). I wanted to know if he had a source saying that Houston is #1.


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## SeanPsych (Dec 30, 2020)

I lived my first 25 years in New England, then moved out West- Hawaii, Seatlle, Colorado. I have also lived in New Zealand and ridden in Europe and Central America. I would say for Mountain Biking, cannot beat the Mountain West. Hardly any slippery roots, mostly dry conditions, lots of excellent singletrack, and lots of vertical. If you can't afford to live front range Colorado (Ft Collins to Pueblo span), Grand Junction in Western Colorado has amazing riding, 310 days of sunshine, doesn't get AZ or NM hot, and is very affordable. New Zealand is pretty amazing, but dont count on seeing your family much as everything is so far away.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

PHeller said:


> Show Low/Pinetop doesn't have much of a "downtown" - Pinetop hardly no center at all. It's not a very young population, and what young people do live there are pretty conservative...


I enjoyed this little update on the status of the Show Low area. I spent a summer as a USFS intern at the Pinetop/Lakeside Ranger Station in 1996. I GPSed all of the rideable trails that were there at the time in order for the USFS to publish their first MTB trail guide (I still have the old Cannondale I did it on too). Also did tons of trail work. I loved it but was also into all day solo rides and never have been a city person.

The few people I did hang out with were definitely NOT conservative but maybe that has a lot to do with the demographics of seasonal employees.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

SeanPsych said:


> Grand Junction in Western Colorado has amazing riding ...


I think Palisade would be on my short list if I ever left Bozeman, MT. It's been ages since I visited Gunnison but that would be worth a look too. The Front Range seems kinda crowded.


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## Mugochap (Nov 12, 2010)

chomxxo said:


> It's a fact that Houston is the most diverse city in the nation. See how little y'all know?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you please provide your proof? Link to articles? Something of the sorts?

Having lived here for over 18 years and having a career heavily invested in the demographics of this town I'd be interested to see your data...


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## HenryJr (Dec 30, 2020)

ulnar-landing said:


> So I'm considering trying to escape new England. I've lived here my whole life and am looking to change things up. I'm trying to brain storm where I would most like to be. The riding here is good but I'd love to move somewhere that's near a good amount of actual mountains and I really really want to be able to ride all year round on my trail bike and not a fat bike.
> 
> Where are your favorite places for riding that also seem good to live? I don't like cities but like being near enough to one to drive to one. Thinking of maybe somewhere like the desert but doesn't have to be. Also would want somewhere relatively cheap.
> 
> ...


Check out Goodyear AZ. We live in a master plan development, Estrella Mountain Ranch. There are over 80 miles of single track accessible from my home without getting into a car. My There are 3 trailhead within about 1 mile from my house. Check it out on trailforks, 80% of the trails will show up.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

chomxxo said:


> I thought we agreed not to discuss politics, so lame and prejudicial.
> 
> Well all this talk of cool rides has me itching for a road trip. The Winter storms moving in today has me hustling to get on the road and head West as soon as possible. I'll post pics at some of the spots you all recommend (especially the ones so cool that we don't want anybody moving to!)


I was riding in Sedona and Prescott last month. I didnt see a single other rider the entire time. I was also scoping out Cottonwood and of course stayed the night partying in Jerome. Not many know that it's legal to drink in the park there.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Love Jerome, not sure there's another town quite like it. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Maybe this is a good place for this quote:

“Eastward I go only by force; but westward I go free.” — Henry David Thoreau

Interstate 25 is my east/west boundary line.


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## iLuveKetchup (Dec 21, 2020)

Whoa! Just clicked on the link regarding diversity and Jersey City (where I grew up) is #1. Wasn't like that before the gentrification.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

The wife and I are peaking around at Real Estate in Sante Fe as a second home as we have sort of narrowed it down as the best compromise.

I truly love Mountain Biking, but you know restaurants, culture, snow, jobs, bike parks, weather, direct flights, affordability, etc., there is more to consider than JUST bikes.

Also, I do like Bentonville a great deal but I suspect that could get a bit boring. It's not close to any snow, or other riding destinations. Trails are pretty manicured. No altitude. Lots and lots of dudes.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

WHALENARD said:


> Love Jerome, not sure there's another town quite like it.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


I hope there isn't and that's actually a good thing.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

iLuveKetchup said:


> Whoa! Just clicked on the link regarding diversity and Jersey City (where I grew up) is #1. Wasn't like that before the gentrification.


I'd wager that's more a result of people not being able to afford to live in NYC anymore. I remember a time when turning down the wrong street in Newark could have been the very last mistake you ever made.

I found the "birthplace of population" chart interesting. I guess Skynard was right all along.

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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Suns_PSD said:


> ... Lots and lots of dudes.


This was a good description of the mountain town in which my wife and I lived for several years. The old saying among the women in town was that "The odds were good, but the goods were odd."


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> The wife and I are peaking around at Real Estate in Sante Fe as a second home as we have sort of narrowed it down as the best compromise.
> 
> I truly love Mountain Biking, but you know restaurants, culture, snow, jobs, bike parks, weather, direct flights, affordability, etc., there is more to consider than JUST bikes.
> 
> Also, I do like Bentonville a great deal but I suspect that could get a bit boring. It's not close to any snow, or other riding destinations. Trails are pretty manicured. No altitude. Lots and lots of dudes.


Santa Fe is where my wife and I want to retire.

Riding is great. Huge variety of trails.

Weather? Awesome.

Skiing/snowboarding? Yep.

Food? Hell yes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

I heard NorCal is pretty sick place. It is the birthplace of mountain biking after all. The trails might be average, but the locals are the coolest.....from what I've heard. 
👽


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Santa Fe is where my wife and I want to retire.
> 
> Riding is great. Huge variety of trails.
> 
> ...


Isn't crime on the high side there?


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Somewhere I have a T shirt that reads "Welcome to Jerome. Now get the F out of the street"


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> Isn't crime on the high side there?


Well, it's better than Baltimore.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

sgltrak said:


> This was a good description of the mountain town in which my wife and I lived for several years. The old saying among the women in town was that "The odds were good, but the goods were odd."


Here in the mountains theres a saying, "We dont date, we rotate." I dont dabble up here, on the advice of my doctor. Never have and dont have a rep in town where I've been single all these years.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

Train Wreck said:


> I heard NorCal is pretty sick place. It is the birthplace of mountain biking after all. The trails might be average, but *the locals are the coolest*.....from what I've heard.
> 👽


There's an entire subforum on MTBR dedicated to proving this out.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Klurejr said:


> Lake Arrowhead?
> 
> I used to live in San Diego proper, we were just up the hill from Pacific Beach in a place called Bay Park. We lived just outside the tourist zone so it was never bad by our house, but we went to church in PB and during the summer our drives down there on Sunday's were horrendous, tourists everywhere.
> 
> My boss bought a Cabin in Big Bear, up the valley near Bear Resort and some friends of ours have a Cabin just outisde of the village right next to what used to be a Ski Resort that is just open hillsides where the runs used to be. I love it up there.


Lots of good times spent in tourist driven Pacific Beach.

Love the town of Big Bear and Lake Arrowhead is where I was guessing milehi was from without actually saying the name. Cats out of the bag now.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Jesse Hill said:


> While it certainly is not cheap by any stretch of the imagination NorCal fits everything else your after.





bdreynolds7 said:


> moved to the Sacramento area where its more affordable to live and lots of outdoor activities. Tahoe is less than


NorCal/Auburn/Sac sux, don't move here.... 

My friends that still live in the Bad Liver Valley say they're having the longest biking season ever this year, better get some!


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

NorCal/the central valley is not the same place I grew up in. Left it for good reason. Things like the amount of trash on the freeways, how many homeless camps there are, the crime rate, all kind of go un-noticed until you move away then go back for a visit. Generally the people are good and the food is okay. (I do miss CA Mexican food though) If you can afford the housing and taxes, its one of the best centrally located areas in the US. 2 hours to the beach, 2 hours to the Sierras.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

TwoTone said:


> Isn't crime on the high side there?


There is MS13 in NM. It's a poor state. And southern NM is flat filthy. 
But then you can drive 10 minutes from my gated home in Austin and find crime ridden hoods.
When you get to large population centers, there is going to be some riff raff. Fortunately I can probably afford to get away from it for a second home, and most definitely for a 1st home.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

A little late to the thread but something is missing from the OP's info. What do you do besides mountain bike? I need to live in an area that has many recreational options (so I do). But what you do outside of biking is paramount to picking the best spot _for your needs_.

if I was moving primarily to MTB, northwest Arkansas would be high on the list. Not necessarily Bentonville but that whole corner of the state is exploding with high quality trails. Not a huge drive to the Rockies or the desert from there either. Personally I enjoy winter & water sports mixed in so access to lakes and the ocean is important to me, as well as skiing and fat biking in season.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I spent the first few months in the east bay looking for decent Mexican food. Most was... flavorless. Evidently the valley is not the place to go for good Mexican either  

Why is it that MS13 is the touchstone for crime? I find that, hilarious... and awfully telling.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dysfunction said:


> Well, it's better than Baltimore.


Well I'm over 1 hour away. On the website I look at Santa Fe is a 6% Baltimore is 4%, so not much better.
I'm having a hard time cause the areas I'm in is a 40-50% stat in crime, so it's hard to wrap my head around somewhere that is below 10%.

I'm interested in this thread since I plan a move west in about 1.5 years. But I'll be single, so also worry about the social life side as well. I have a single friend that has had to live in some small towns because of working and he says dating is a challenge.

Also, used to rolling terain. I hate climbing, so not sure if I'd enjoy long climbs for a long downhill.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> There is MS13 in NM. It's a poor state. And southern NM is flat filthy.


Hell yeah, stay away from southern NM for sure, it's dangerous as heck. AZ too.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Lots of good times spent in tourist driven Pacific Beach.
> 
> Love the town of Big Bear and Lake Arrowhead is where I was guessing milehi was from without actually saying the name. Cats out of the bag now.


I live at the top of Daley Canyon. I'm actually in Skyforest .A short pedal to Skypark bikepark. Now you know why I changed my handle to Milehi


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

There are more MS13 gang members in New York, Maryland and Virginia.

Perhaps you're thinking of the Syndicato De Nuevo Mexico?


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> Well I'm over 1 hour away. On the website I look at Santa Fe is a 6% Baltimore is 4%, so not much better.
> I'm having a hard time cause the areas I'm in is a 40-50% stat in crime, so it's hard to wrap my head around somewhere that is below 10%.


The stats really depend on what you're looking at. I think 44 in 1,000 residents will be the victims of crime in Santa Fe, and 64/1000 in Baltimore. With that said, I lived in Baltimore when it had a higher crime rate and I had my car broken into once, and I was stupid and left stuff in the back seat. To be honest, Tucson is worse statistics wise.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

dysfunction said:


> The stats really depend on what you're looking at. I think 44 in 1,000 residents will be the victims of crime in Santa Fe, and 64/1000 in Baltimore. With that said, I lived in Baltimore when it had a higher crime rate and I had my car broken into once, and I was stupid and left stuff in the back seat. To be honest, Tucson is worse statistics wise.


I lived in D.C. when it was the Murder Capital of the United States (1990 1991). Bike messenger on the streets all the time. Still alive, though I did see some [email protected] up [email protected] from time to time. Even saw a man shot to death in the street.

NM is paradise...I mean the trails suck, MS13 prowling all over the place. Stay away...


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

mlx john said:


> I lived in D.C. when it was the Murder Capital of the United States (1990 1991). Bike messenger on the streets all the time. Still alive, though I did see some [email protected] up [email protected] from time to time. Even saw a man shot to death in the street.
> 
> NM is paradise...I mean the trails suck, MS13 prowling all over the place. Stay away...


I was hanging out at places like DC Space and 930 around then. I well remember how bad it was then.... I left in '95... I don't miss it, much.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

dysfunction said:


> I was hanging out at places like DC Space and 930 around then. I well remember how bad it was then.... I left in '95... I don't miss it, much.


Yes DC Space!

Club Asylum, Heaven and Hell, Ike's Mambo Room etc. 
Great place to be young and single, not so great to raise kids. Had a lot of fun, but also don't miss it much. Left in '94

Do miss the Ethiopian food.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dysfunction said:


> I was hanging out at places like DC Space and 930 around then. I well remember how bad it was then.... I left in '95... I don't miss it, much.


Drinking age was 18 back when I was younger, so we were going to bars with fake ids as soon as we could drive. Got grandfathered in when it changed to 21.

Anyone from this area in the 80's - Tenley Market.

Wasn't that bad as long as you stayed out of SE.


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## phishstix (Mar 15, 2020)

Aptos, Ca.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

The original 930 club in that sketch neighborhood was incredible. Saw a ton of great bands there in the early ‘90s. Best show: Helmet on the “Meantime“ tour with Quicksand.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Blatant said:


> The original 930 club in that sketch neighborhood was incredible. Saw a ton of great bands there in the early '90s. Best show: Helmet on the "Meantime" tour with Quicksand.


The Oven


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## KirkC (Aug 21, 2010)

I've been going to Angel Fire and Taos, NM for years for vacation (skiing and biking). I would choose this area for my live anywhere place. Downhill riding at the park is great. South Boundary trail is my favorite high alpine XC ride (5k descending). Desert riding in Taos area (Horsethief Mesa) is excellent. 

If I had a big budget I sure like Breckenridge, CO and several places in CA (San Luis Obispo, NorCal - Napa. End each ride with a great meal and cabernet sauvignon ). 

If the virus settles down in the next year I plan on a trip to WA to do some exploring.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

If had a to choose a place in the US then it would probably somewhere in Southern Oregon. Low population density, decent trail density, are big factors.

But I like the fact that they have seasons. Meaning, in Winter you get to put your bike away and spend some time on skis. I love riding my bike and I ride it a lot, but if I ride it too much that love fades. Skiing always replenishes my enthusiasm for riding.

I also think there is decent road/gravel riding there. Mountain biking is my first love, but I enjoy time on curley bars and some place where you can do that safely and enjoyably is important to me.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

LMN said:


> I also think there is decent road/gravel riding there. Mountain biking is my first love, but I enjoy time on curley bars and some place where you can do that safely and enjoyably is important to me.


This is something I wonder about whenever I think about moving...especially out West. I'm positive that some (most?) of it is my lack of familiarity, but some of the places I've really liked (Missoula, Taos, Sun Valley, etc.) don't seem to have much pavement aside from highways and the Interstate. They seem to have plenty of opportunity for gravel, but I love riding my road bike.

What are some places that have great mtb AND paved roads to ride on?


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

smartyiak said:


> This is something I wonder about whenever I think about moving...especially out West. I'm positive that some (most?) of it is my lack of familiarity, but some of the places I've really liked (Missoula, Taos, Sun Valley, etc.) don't seem to have much pavement aside from highways and the Interstate. They seem to have plenty of opportunity for gravel, but I love riding my road bike.
> 
> What are some places that have great mtb AND paved roads to ride on?


Bend, OR or Asheville, NC


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

smartyiak said:


> What are some places that have great mtb AND paved roads to ride on?


Quality road riding is important. In grand scheme of things building mountain bike trails is pretty easy but adding paved roads, well that is a bit more challenging.

Generally the two seem to be opposites, I find great road riding isn't found near great mountain biking.


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## Phó Qüe (Dec 31, 2020)

Bacon Fat said:


> I would head south to NC/north GA area, then start heading west to Bentonville. The zip over to NV/Utah/AZ area


Bentonville is a cool bike place, but gets just as hot and humid as E. Texas does. Also full of damn ticks!
New Mexico is expensive too around the good riding spots.
If you want cheap/affordable then you have to deal with the crappy weather and or riding. AR and TX are getting expensive too thanks to the influx of Californians and such.
Good luck!


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## Trinimon (Aug 6, 2019)

Humm, if I had to move, I think I would definitely consider São Miguel in the Azores. Awesome biking, right on the ocean, amazing food and the people are super friendly. Short, inexpensive flight to the mainland and sister islands in the chain. Not crazy about driving on the roads there though. It's like European Hawaii, what's not to love?


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Blatant said:


> The original 930 club in that sketch neighborhood was incredible. Saw a ton of great bands there in the early '90s. Best show: Helmet on the "Meantime" tour with Quicksand.


My parents were from farming backgrounds, so they wouldn't let me go into the city at night for shows. RFK was about it. I still think about some amazing ones I missed in 90-92. I partied in the city a lot in the mid-late 90s though. A college friend was working a a sous chef so we took advantage of his bartender hookups.

It's amazing how much DC has gentrified.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

LMN said:


> Quality road riding is important. In grand scheme of things building mountain bike trails is pretty easy but adding paved roads, well that is a bit more challenging.
> 
> Generally the two seem to be opposites, I find great road riding isn't found near great mountain biking.


You've looked in the wrong places.


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## b rock (Jan 5, 2017)

Lone Rager said:


> Totally. Trying to outrun the mosquitos and flies helped keep me in shape....then there's DEET and permethrin. Ticks were unbelievable at times.


The prevalence of Lyme disease in New England and PA freak me out. I look at this map, and I try to imagine riding a few hours a week where a tick is much more likely to have a chance to give me a chronic condition, and I think my paranoia would mostly ruin mountain biking for me (combined with the wet roots and lack of access to public land). I know that people still ride in these places, but it seems a lot less common than in the West (with exceptions like Asheville).



  








PHeller said:


> It's crazy that a place like Pittsburgh has better trail access than a place Chambersburg (on the edge of Michaux State Forest) or State College (on the edge of Rothrock). Granted, the later cities are closer to more mileage of trails, but Pittsburgh has trails within 1/4 mile of downtown. All across the east coast, you always have to make this choice, it's either you live in town, or you live near trails.


When the West Coast gets smoked out for weeks by wildfire smoke, my wife freaks and talks about moving back to the Pittsburgh area where she is from. It's cool to hear that Pittsburgh proper has some nice trail access, but the commutes required elsewhere sound like it would be the beginning of the end of my regular mountain biking if we moved. Also, after living in Cambridge, MA, and yearly visits to the Pittsburgh area, rural Maryland, reading about icy New England ski resorts, and talking to my wife about how REI is a West Coast phenomena, I've got the sense that outdoor recreation is not integrated into everyday life in most of the areas of the East Coast in the way that it is out West.



SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I pushed really hard for North Carolina because the Research Triangle seemed perfect for us; close to Asheville which has some of my favorite riding, and close to the beach (which my wife and daughters love).


We have family in the Research Triangle, so I thought about this too, but it is almost a 4 hour drive from Raleigh to Asheville. I need to be within half an hour drive of trails until my kids are older, and most of my rides are at neighborhood trails these days.



Harold said:


> I'm FROM the midwest and tend to feel like most midwesterners and southerners are quite warm and friendly, outwardly. even if they hate you...
> 
> The PNW and New England are two areas I've not been. But of the places I HAVE, I found people in Pittsburgh to be the most difficult to socialize with. Not sure I'd put them as cold as folks from Seattle has been described, but absolutely insular and aloof.


I think it is hard to generalize with a small sample size. My wife grew up in the Pittsburgh suburbs, I am from NorCal. I don't get this from her circle, but I absolutely get that the undertone to casual/random social encounters in public can feel very different in different areas of the US.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

KirkC said:


> If the virus settles down in the next year I plan on a trip to WA to do some exploring.


Let me know when you come out to WA. I can point you to some great trails.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

b rock said:


> I think it is hard to generalize with a small sample size. My wife grew up in the Pittsburgh suburbs, I am from NorCal. I don't get this from her circle, but I absolutely get that the undertone to casual/random social encounters in public can feel very different in different areas of the US.


I still maintain friendships with most of the people I befriended in Pittsburgh. They're all people I met through work and it took years of daily interactions before any of them started to consider me a friend. Making friends in the mtb community there just didn't happen. I've made bike friends pretty much everywhere I've lived EXCEPT Pittsburgh. It's not like I didn't ride with people and meet folks in the mtb community there. I got a definite feeling that they had their circles and didn't care to add anyone to them, and that it took MORE to break into an existing social circle there. Connections who were already in that circle. Heavy, heavy social investment on my part before anyone reciprocates (I'm fairly introverted, so that kind of thing is hard for me).


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

KirkC said:


> ... If I had a big budget I sure like Breckenridge, CO ...


I did this for 7 years in the late 80s and early 90s. The riding right out your front door is amazing and skiing / snowboarding 100-200 days per year is great, but ultimately I bored of the skiing and found the biking season was too short. Usually by March, we were driving the 4 hours to Moab almost every weekend and heading to Denver on some weeknights to ride our bikes.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Blatant said:


> The original 930 club in that sketch neighborhood was incredible. Saw a ton of great bands there in the early '90s. Best show: Helmet on the "Meantime" tour with Quicksand.


That was on F st. The U street corridor where the new 9:30 is (and a bunch of bars and restaurants are now ) used to be a ghost area, sketchy AF. The old Asylum was at 12 and U back then. That's where I met my wife.

The old 9:30 was a great place to see bands. Saw Primus, Living Colour, White Zombie, Bad Brains, NIN, Camper Van Beethoven, Clutch, Melvins, Scream, etc>. Missed that Helmet show, must've been good.
Saw Fugazi about 20 times (they always rented local school/church gymnasiums and other small places. Always charged $5)


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

dysfunction said:


> You've looked in the wrong places.


Maybe. But I have ridden all over the world and yet to be in a place that has truly world class road and mountain biking.

Closest I have been to is probably Penticton BC, but their road riding is only good by Canadian standards. It pales in comparison to what is found in Europe or California.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

LMN said:


> Maybe. But I have ridden all over the world and yet to be in a place that has truly world class road and mountain biking.
> 
> Closest I have been to is probably Penticton BC, but their road riding is only good by Canadian standards. It pales in comparison to what is found in Europe or California.


I wouldn't mind moving to the Aosta/Courmayeur area.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

PHeller said:


> Sedona is not more blue than Flagstaff. It's more new age, yes, but there is a lot of money in Sedona and a lot of retirees in VOC who have no interest in making those places affordable, meanwhile they are renting their homes on AirBNB while shilling homeopathic cures in between checking the balances of their trust funds, investments, or startups in California or Phoenix.
> 
> Having friends who live there, they struggle to meet "normal" people. That doesn't mean they don't exist in town, but it's definitely not more blue than Flagstaff.


Ehh... slightly more blue. I suspect conservatives are the "quiet majority" in Sedona/VOC. I am making generalizations....

The woo woo culture is, well, different. I remember laughing at someone because of their belief because I thought they were joking. I'm learning to keep a poker face. I think the only normies in town are the mountain bikers, whether they be liberal or conservative I do admit the new age culture has opened my mind to other ways of doing things.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

smartyiak said:


> I wouldn't mind moving to the Aosta/Courmayeur area.


That area is so nice. I have spent a lot time to the west in Albertville and to the east in Livingo.

The road riding is absolutely incredible, but have you ever mountain biked in Europe? The trails are on incredible terrain but usually you are on hiking trails not purpose built mountain bike trails, or the few purpose built mountain bike trails are built for a newer rider. They are just lacking that good quality mountain bike trail that we have in North America. I have spent a lot of time over there and my experience is that mountain biking just isn't up the same level that we have here. But the road riding is unreal.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

b rock said:


> The prevalence of Lyme disease in New England and PA freak me out. I look at this map, and I try to imagine riding a few hours a week where a tick is much more likely to have a chance to give me a chronic condition, and I think my paranoia would mostly ruin mountain biking for me (combined with the wet roots and lack of access to public land). I know that people still ride in these places, but it seems a lot less common than in the West (with exceptions like Asheville).
> 
> View attachment 1909350
> 
> ...


I grew up in PA and us country folks don't believe in Lyme disease. Seriously, it does happen, and years ago during my training we started aggressively screening for it. PA rocks for mountain biking and back in the early days it was considered one of the best places in the country. Wet roots suck, but 2.4 DHR2s are the cure for that. The challenge is finding a residence close to a trail head and job. The outdoor types are not as common as the west and many are hunters. The west is better.

If you want to be part of Pittsburgh culture, you have to be a Steelers fan.

GO STEELERS!!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Santa Fe is where my wife and I want to retire.
> 
> Riding is great. Huge variety of trails.
> 
> ...


Sigh. If it wasn't so cold. And if I could get the Latinas to be interested in me.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

LMN said:


> The road riding is absolutely incredible, but have you ever mountain biked in Europe? The trails are on incredible terrain but usually you are on hiking trails not purpose built mountain bike trails,


This sounds about perfect to me. When I started mountain biking, that is all we had and that is still my favorite type of trail to ride today. I'm not really impressed with purpose built mountain bike trails.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

mlx john said:


> That was on F st. The U street corridor where the new 9:30 is (and a bunch of bars and restaurants are now ) used to be a ghost area, sketchy AF. The old Asylum was at 12 and U back then. That's where I met my wife.
> 
> The old 9:30 was a great place to see bands. Saw Primus, Living Colour, White Zombie, Bad Brains, NIN, Camper Van Beethoven, Clutch, Melvins, Scream, etc>. Missed that Helmet show, must've been good.
> Saw Fugazi about 20 times (they always rented local school/church gymnasiums and other small places. Always charged $5)


 Sweet. I actually never went to the new one. Saw a bunch of shows at the F Street location. A few years later I was in a touring hardcore band, but we never got to play there. Did play at CBGB, though, which was incredible.


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## phishstix (Mar 15, 2020)

DrDon said:


> And if I could get the Latinas to be interested in me.


Push around a churro buggy.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

DrDon said:


> Sigh. If it wasn't so cold. And if I could get the Latinas to be interested in me.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


It's slightly warmer than my current location. I've had to cancel three AirBnB trips there now (family events, then COVID). My wife loves it. The in-town trails are fun and you can ride up into the high country on single track from town.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

DrDon said:


> Sigh. If it wasn't so cold. And if I could get the Latinas to be interested in me.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


The highs in Sante Fe are between 50 & 85 ten months of the year with low humidity man! That's perfect!
Latinas love me, well except my wife.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

The best trails in the world are in southern Iceland. Now you know.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

mlx john said:


> That was on F st. The U street corridor where the new 9:30 is (and a bunch of bars and restaurants are now ) used to be a ghost area, sketchy AF. The old Asylum was at 12 and U back then. That's where I met my wife.
> 
> The old 9:30 was a great place to see bands. Saw Primus, Living Colour, White Zombie, Bad Brains, NIN, Camper Van Beethoven, Clutch, Melvins, Scream, etc>. Missed that Helmet show, must've been good.
> Saw Fugazi about 20 times (they always rented local school/church gymnasiums and other small places. Always charged $5)


My memory is shot and I'm a tad older than you guys, what was the bar in bar in Baltimore that stayed open much later then the bars in DC?
I never drove there but was always getting dragged there after clubs in DC closed.

Spent way too much of my youth at Poseurs.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

phishstix said:


> Push around a churro buggy.


No churros in Santa Fe. They serve sopapillas. That and Frito bowls are popular for some reason.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> No churros in Santa Fe. They serve sopapillas. That and Frito bowls are popular for some reason.


BBQ Fritos. Is there a worse food? I wonder if cockroaches were fed a steady diet of BBQ Fritos, would they die out or would it make them genetically stronger. They taste so good - the Fritos, not the cockroaches.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

patski said:


> NorCal/Auburn/Sac sux, don't move here....
> 
> My friends that still live in the Bad Liver Valley say they're having the longest biking season ever this year, better get some!


Bike season in central Vermont was crazy long this year. I had my first ride on dirt in late March and rode frozen dirt yesterday. Kinda nuts considering riding season is usually May-November.

Snow tomorrow will officially make it fat bike season but no complaints about riding dirt for 10 months of 2020.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lord Shiggins (Aug 22, 2018)

milehi said:


> The best trails in the world are in southern Iceland. Now you know.
> [/QUO


 I love Iceland and the riding there but... not a ton of singletrack. That being said the Laugavegur trail was some of my favorite riding Ive done. But that was more the scenery than the quality of the trail.


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## Father Brown (Jan 1, 2021)

I just can't pic one place, there's so many great trails and beautiful places to see.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Father Brown said:


> I just can't pic one place, there's so many great trails and beautiful places to see.


How often do you move?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

If you tele-commute, consider some serious RV lifestyle. You can spend a few months in many different places.


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## phishstix (Mar 15, 2020)

Bam! New opportunity.. the only ****** on the block with churros. Get after it.


NorCal_In_AZ said:


> No churros in Santa Fe. They serve sopapillas. That and Frito bowls are popular for some reason.


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## Mugochap (Nov 12, 2010)

I currently live in the Houston area and while there are some fun local(ish) trails obviously we have very little climbing... which is something that I really enjoy. Based upon where I’ve ridden trails in the past (Florida, Utah, Arizona, Texas, Colorado, New York, Arkansas and Louisana) I think my choice would be Park City... I know it’s super pricey there but the sheer volume of trails, terrain, local infrastructure, climbing and the views make me feel like it’s a cycling Mecca. 

While in Utah Ive ridden in Draper, PC and Moab and have thoroughly enjoyed all those places... but PC has the edge for me as I have several friends who currently live there and there Seems to be ample terrain for every type of ride: mtn, gravel/dirt and mountain roads.

My sister and brother-in law live in Flagstaff so I’ve been fortunate to do some trail, road and gravel riding out there and it’s amazing there also... a close second to PC.

There are several other places here in the states that I haven’t ridden yet and really would like to someday including SoCal, NorCal, Bentonville, Psigah, Colorado Springs, etc... so I haven’t factored them in my decision.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Jola from El Paso!


















Que pasa Laredo!

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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

My two choices. Both have enough single track to keep you busy for years AND a bike park(s). Trails are ridable from your house or really short drive. Snowboarding in the winter is a bonus.

i like the riding in Park City a little more but houses cost waaaay more than Bend.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I live in Park City Utah and it's the optimum location for me, but I doubt it would be for anyone who wants to ride year round. For that, I'd be inclined to head south to N.M. or Arizona, I suppose.

I like the seasons (skiing) for sure....I also like 400+ miles of singletrack within about a 20 mile radius!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

MSU Alum said:


> I live in Park City Utah and it's the optimum location for me, but I doubt it would be for anyone who wants to ride year round. For that, I'd be inclined to head south to N.M. or Arizona, I suppose.
> 
> I like the seasons (skiing) for sure....I also like 400+ miles of singletrack within about a 20 mile radius!


I thought they have some fat-biking trails around there in the winter for year-round riding?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

If you want to ride year round, the trouble you’ll find is it gets real hot in the summers unless you’re coastal, do expect high heat in southern Nevada, southern New Mexico, southern Utah, southern Arizona.

A nice compromise is to live in the high desert where the summers are more bearable and the winters are not too extreme.

Having lived twenty years in VA and TN, I’m fried on wet weather and short trails. Life is too short to be so limited in your riding choices, so I’d steer clear of the PNW unless you like cold-dark-wet fir

I think northern Arizona, Prescott-Sedona-Flagstaff is the best combination of weather, trail access, and live ability. The downside is how to pay the bills.

I may never get to live in Prescott, but it’s a great place to visit 👍


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Jayem said:


> I thought they have some fat-biking trails around there in the winter for year-round riding?


They do, especially in the Round Valley area and near Heber.
I bet there's some fun stuff up in the Uinta range outside Kamas as well. We used to go up there snowshoeing and classic XC skiing years ago. There's actually a snowmobile track that is the width of the road - the Mirror Lake highway that gets you up to about 10,700' - going up and over the pass that would be really cool for use with an E-fat-bike (I assume there is such a thing) because it could get you 15+ miles in where you could go off trail on snowshoes. That actually sounds like it would be a great way to explore the area!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you want to ride year round, the trouble you'll find is it gets real hot in the summers unless you're coastal, do expect high heat in southern Nevada, southern New Mexico, southern Utah, southern Arizona.
> 
> A nice compromise is to live in the high desert where the summers are more bearable and the winters are not too extreme.


Southern NM and AZ has a fair amount of high desert too but they still get plenty hot in the summer. Coming from the midwest the great thing about the weatern deserts (both high and low) is the low humidity and corresponding wide temperature variations. 40 degree daily temperature swings are pretty normal. Even mid-summer in the baking sonoran desert morning rides are still pleasant, for me anyway, compared to humid environments that never cool down and are uncomfortable even @ 80 degrees.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

New Zealand....... Riding galore...... No Covid...... not animals that are going to kill you, no guns and you dont have to weather half dead arrogant 70+ presidents.

Mild climate with year round biking. Not too hot in summer and not too cold in winter.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you want to ride year round, the trouble you'll find is it gets real hot in the summers unless you're coastal, do expect high heat in southern Nevada, southern New Mexico, southern Utah, southern Arizona.


There is a reason people who Visit SoCal from colder climates in the winter end up moving here.

Took my kids for a ride on Tuesday afternoon, was 70 degrees when we started and in the lower 60's when we got back to the car after the sun was down.


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## Mratomix (Oct 13, 2012)

Michigan UP - nobody is out there riding right now, it's too cold.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Heat doesn’t prevent you from riding. You prevent you from riding. The human body is pretty amazing and acclimatizes in only about 3-4 weeks. Your blood plasma volume changes and off you go. 

I was doing 12-17 hours throughout the summer with a FT job. 

In the past years where i traveled more, acclimation was difficult because j never got to consistently ride in the heat. 

The challenge in arizona in the summer is a complete lack of water for huge rides which requires a big pack or strategic planning for 3-5 hour rides. In Sedona, this causes you yo have to loop in less desirable trails in order to do water stops.


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## ladljon (Nov 30, 2011)

One thing to consider is drive time to trailhead....1.5 miles from my front porch....


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

ladljon said:


> One thing to consider is drive time to trailhead....1.5 miles from my front porch....


less than 1 mile of pavement pedalling to get to mine. a HUUUGE reason why I bought this house.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

plummet said:


> New Zealand....... Riding galore...... No Covid...... not animals that are going to kill you, no guns and you dont have to weather half dead arrogant 70+ presidents.
> 
> Mild climate with year round biking. Not too hot in summer and not too cold in winter.


I can't wait to go there. We're thinking next winter (your summer).


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## downhill502 (Feb 22, 2012)

plummet said:


> New Zealand....... Riding galore...... No Covid...... not animals that are going to kill you, no guns and you dont have to weather half dead arrogant 70+ presidents.
> 
> Mild climate with year round biking. Not too hot in summer and not too cold in winter.


F*** sake don't tell people how amazing it is. My wife and I were married there 5 years ago. Rode two bike parks and it is always on my mind. Wonderful country indeed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> ...so I'd steer clear of the PNW unless you like cold-dark-wet fir


It can be very hard to work up the motivation to ride when it's 45 degrees and raining and darkish, but once on the trail it's still pretty darn fun. All that wet makes for a lot of maintenance though. Hardtails are a good winter choice here. And we have some of the most amazing steep and chunky trails this side of BC. Plummet would dig it here.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Klurejr said:


> There is a reason people who Visit SoCal from colder climates in the winter end up moving here.
> 
> Took my kids for a ride on Tuesday afternoon, was 70 degrees when we started and in the lower 60's when we got back to the car after the sun was down.
> 
> View attachment 1911562


There's also so many reason why people are leaving.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

I like the amount of trails we have around Phoenix. Plus, we can escape the heat in the summer with a 2-3 hour drive. Then you have lots of other places to go for a long weekend. Santa Fe/Albuquerque, So Utah, So Cal, Vegas, Central Coast CA. Riding near home is great, but having the chance to get out and visit other places pretty easily is also awesome.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

TwoTone said:


> There's also so many reason why people are leaving.


yeah, it is expensive, you pay extra for the good weather.


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## Mratomix (Oct 13, 2012)

FJSnoozer said:


> Heat doesn't prevent you from riding. You prevent you from riding. The human body is pretty amazing and acclimatizes in only about 3-4 weeks. Your blood plasma volume changes and off you go.
> 
> I was doing 12-17 hours throughout the summer with a FT job.


You were riding 12-17 hours a day in the Summer or you rode 12-17 hours total over the Summer? Also, 3-4 weeks to acclimate might make riding uncomfortable in the interim if you're not used to a weather or climate or elevation profile.

All I know is - most people would not ride in -10 to 20 degree faranheit weather. I, on the other hand, love that!


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## Ian Limburg (Oct 27, 2020)

I'd say somewhere in Utah or New Mexico. Moab Utah is like my favorite place ever.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mratomix said:


> You were riding 12-17 hours a day in the Summer or you rode 12-17 hours total over the Summer?


most people measure their riding in hours per week, 12-17 while working full time is super impressive imo.

Post #291 is verboten btw, best just to avoid that sort of thing altogether around here. Probably will be deleted soon anyway.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

MSU Alum said:


> They do, especially in the Round Valley area and near Heber.
> I bet there's some fun stuff up in the Uinta range outside Kamas as well. We used to go up there snowshoeing and classic XC skiing years ago. There's actually a snowmobile track that is the width of the road - the Mirror Lake highway that gets you up to about 10,700' - going up and over the pass that would be really cool for use with an E-fat-bike (I assume there is such a thing) because it could get you 15+ miles in where you could go off trail on snowshoes. That actually sounds like it would be a great way to explore the area!


Well there you go, year round riding! Just like Phoenix and Fairbanks!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

downhill502 said:


> F*** sake don't tell people how amazing it is. My wife and I were married there 5 years ago. Rode two bike parks and it is always on my mind. Wonderful country indeed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dude, seriously, you think that only you and a few of your friends are teh only ones who know what's amazing about New Zealand.

F*** sake, the country was used to film Lord of the Rings.

It really is silly when people try to avoid telling folks about how nice a place is, as if it's mystery or something. Mysteries ceased to be mysteries when he internet was created ...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

FJSnoozer said:


> Heat doesn't prevent you from riding. You prevent you from riding. The human body is pretty amazing and acclimatizes in only about 3-4 weeks. Your blood plasma volume changes and off you go.
> 
> I was doing 12-17 hours throughout the summer with a FT job.
> 
> ...


IDK, people die in Phoenix from heat stroke in the summer. If you are out riding when it's 118° for 5 hours, I'd like to know about it. From experiencing that climate living in AZ, it seems most people go in the early morning around 5 or 6am or late at night, when it's significantly cooler, but it's still a beat-down in a lot of those conditions. Riding in the summer in the heat and humidity (later summer in PHX and all through the summer in other places) is just a physical beat down. Clothes are soaked through in a few minutes, you can't go on an "all day adventure" because you blow through water at such an incredible rate, plus you need tons of salts to keep it up, etc. I'm ok riding in _some_ heat or for shorter periods, but it 100% prevents me from riding how I'd like to in many situations. I mean, for this conversation, there's NOTHING that would prevent one from riding, like -60 degrees C would be fine too, since you can just "bundle up" more. Adaption is important, but there's a significant limit to what I can do in 110 degrees. I can go out and ride "all day" in the -F temps. I have to know how to dress, eat, etc., but I won't bonk out on no salts or die of heat stroke. But yes, we are very adaptable creatures.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Mratomix said:


> You were riding 12-17 hours a day in the Summer or you rode 12-17 hours total over the Summer? Also, 3-4 weeks to acclimate might make riding uncomfortable in the interim if you're not used to a weather or climate or elevation profile.
> 
> All I know is - most people would not ride in -10 to 20 degree faranheit weather. I, on the other hand, love that!


Per week. Sorry, no one is riding 10 hours a day every day.

And it actually only takes abiut 2 weeks of riding every day. I said 3-4 so I don't oversell it.

I also have to completely adjust my thinking around HR zones in the summer time

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## b rock (Jan 5, 2017)

plummet said:


> New Zealand....... Riding galore...... No Covid...... not animals that are going to kill you, no guns and you dont have to weather half dead arrogant 70+ presidents.
> 
> Mild climate with year round biking. Not too hot in summer and not too cold in winter.


I hope you have connections at the embassy for us  How much is it going to cost us?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Klurejr said:


> There is a reason people who Visit SoCal from colder climates in the winter end up moving here.
> 
> Took my kids for a ride on Tuesday afternoon, was 70 degrees when we started and in the lower 60's when we got back to the car after the sun was down.


Yes, California has the goods, BUT, it also has the crowds and congestion that come from having lots of folks living near the goods.

I left the Bay Area after high school, moved to Truckee when it was still a small town, going back sucks, everything is touristy and overdeveloped, even in Carson City/Reno we feel the impacts of California's growth.

Nah, the best days of California are long gone, I'd sooner live in a place where I don't have to share the goods with half the country.

Come visit Carson City, I'll take you for a ride


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> less than 1 mile of pavement pedalling to get to mine. a HUUUGE reason why I bought this house.


Reading this thread, I think many people are under estimating how having trails easily accessible without getting into a car will change your mtb-life-experience. 20 years ago, I thought having local trails meant within 10 miles... now that I have many trails just a few minute pedal from my door, I've learned what I was missing. Game changer and any area without this is a non-starter for me.


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## b rock (Jan 5, 2017)

Carl Mega said:


> Reading this thread, I think many people are under estimating how having trails easily accessible without getting into a car will change your mtb-life-experience. 20 years ago, I thought having local trails meant within 10 miles... now that I have many trails just a few minute pedal from my door, I've learned what I was missing. Game changer and any area without this is a non-starter for me.


Yeah, especially if you work full time and have younger kids. It makes weekday, morning, winter rides practical if you can skip driving. Also, it is cool to have that connection with your neighbors, enjoying, and taking care of the trails near where you live.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

A lot depends on what kind of weather you prefer. I see lots of posts about desert type areas, but I'd rather deal with winter riding than heat. Oakridge Oregon has a huge concentration of fantastic trails, many which are year round ridable. We moved close by to Eugene, because hospitals & jobs are important to us.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yes, California has the goods, BUT, it also has the crowds and congestion that come from having lots of folks living near the goods.
> 
> I left the Bay Area after high school, moved to Truckee when it was still a small town, going back sucks, everything is touristy and overdeveloped, even in Carson City/Reno we feel the impacts of California's growth.
> 
> ...


People always assume there are only 2 places to live in CA, the heavily populated SoCal area and the Bay Area.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Ogre said:


> Oakridge Oregon has a huge concentration of fantastic trails, many which are year round ridable.


And having no power up the Aufderheide or out 21 absolutely saved them.

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

Jayem said:


> People always assume there are only 2 places to live in CA, the heavily populated SoCal area and the Bay Area.


While that true. The whole state is ran and influenced by those two areas too. Yeah you get away from it a bit, way out of the way, like Redding, but the state wide policies are still in effect.

I lived 70 miles outside the SF Bay area and still had the effects of high housing cost from bay area investors. The fact that many people find driving 3-4 hours a day, in commute traffic, to have a job that pays enough to own a house is normal, is beyond me.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> I lived 70 miles outside the SF Bay area and still had the effects of high housing cost from bay area investors. The fact that many people find driving 3-4 hours a day, in commute traffic, to have a job that pays enough to own a house is normal, is beyond me.


The best are the escapee's that now vote in the communities of their chosen new location to make it more like.... California.

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

WHALENARD said:


> The best are the escapee's that now vote in the communities of their chosen new location to make it more like.... California.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


I've read a ton of stories from multiple locations around country about this becoming a real problem.
People can't seem to grasp that their 'policies' is what created the issue they wanted to escape and they are only recreating the same crap.

Isn't amazing that if you talk to older people whom escaped from certain places, can't understand why so many Americans what to shift this country toward what they left.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> Reading this thread, I think many people are under estimating how having trails easily accessible without getting into a car will change your mtb-life-experience. 20 years ago, I thought having local trails meant within 10 miles... now that I have many trails just a few minute pedal from my door, I've learned what I was missing. Game changer and any area without this is a non-starter for me.


Agreed, being able to ride to the trails from your house is pretty life changing, hard to go back once you have that, BUT, for urban folks that's not reasonable, so manyfolks are riding on teh way home from work or just driving to ride on the weekends.

I'm super spoiled, we have ten acres with two miles of single track trail. backing up to BLM with anther couple miles of single track and tons of double track. I still drive to ride the good stuff, but when I have less time like before work, I'll ride out my garage with the dogs and do a few laps.

I don't think I could live somewhere without immediate trail access.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

WHALENARD said:


> The best are the escapee's that now vote in the communities of their chosen new location to make it more like.... California.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


I met a guy last year who had just moved here from Northern California and he was aghast that there isn't a Williams-Sonoma. Where the hell is he supposed to get his kitchenware???

After awhile you get used to cooking with branches and rocks and sh** so hopefully he's adapted like the rest of us.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Lol

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

TwoTone said:


> I've read a ton of stories from multiple locations around country about this becoming a real problem.
> People can't seem to grasp that their 'policies' is what created the issue they wanted to escape and they are only recreating the same crap.
> 
> Isn't amazing that if you talk to older people whom escaped from certain places, can't understand why so many Americans what to shift this country toward what they left.


It's always been this way, think about the Westward migration, people leaving Europe for America, there's nothing new about these thoughts.

When people move to a new area, people don't just suddenly adopt a new way of thinking ...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> While that true. The whole state is ran and influenced by those two areas too. Yeah you get away from it a bit, way out of the way, like Redding, but the state wide policies are still in effect.
> 
> I lived 70 miles outside the SF Bay area and still had the effects of high housing cost from bay area investors. The fact that many people find driving 3-4 hours a day, in commute traffic, to have a job that pays enough to own a house is normal, is beyond me.


Welcome to most big cities these days. That's not just in the state of CA. People that have the $$$ buy houses as investments these days.

If you live close in to the city, you basically choose to cut yourself off from the rest of the state, because "getting to" the mountains or other areas is multi-hours, each way. It's not something you are just going to pick up an do every weekend. There are decent places to ride within many of these metropolises, but you accept what that means in terms of accessing the rest of the state. Not much different in other big-city places.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Jayem said:


> Welcome to most big cities these days. That's not just in the state of CA. People that have the $$$ buy houses as investments these days.
> 
> If you live close in to the city, you basically choose to cut yourself off from the rest of the state, because "getting to" the mountains or other areas is multi-hours, each way. It's not something you are just going to pick up an do every weekend. There are decent places to ride within many of these metropolises, but you accept what that means in terms of accessing the rest of the state. Not much different in other big-city places.


Yeah, folks gotta' choose what's important. When I was a teenager in the Bay Area, I chose to move to Truckee CA which at that time was numbering 4k residents, since then I have lived in rural areas for ~ thirty years. There are some downsides I guess, clearly there's less entertainment and eating options in rural areas, but I'm a pretty simple guy, I'm a good cook and I am perfectly happy with a good book and regular mountain biking.

A three to four hour commute, and that's just seventy miles from the city, that's crazy sauce! If I live seventy miles from the city (Reno), I'd own a thousand acres, have miles of single track, and still only have an hour commute.

All you city folk, seriously, the life you lead is not all that good for you, just saying ....


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yeah, folks gotta' choose what's important. When I was a teenager in the Bay Area, I chose to move to Truckee CA which at that time was numbering 4k residents, since then I have lived in rural areas for ~ thirty years. There are some downsides I guess, clearly there's less entertainment and eating options in rural areas, but I'm a pretty simple guy, I'm a good cook and I am perfectly happy with a good book and regular mountain biking.
> 
> A three to four hour commute, that's crazy sauce!
> 
> All you city folk, seriously, the life you lead is not all that good for you, just saying ....


The converse of that is places like Seattle, Phoenix, the Bay Area, that have lots of trails and parks within the city to ride. Sometimes, people live nearby enough to ride to them and get lots of riding in. It's just that yes, they can become "cut off" from the rest of the state effectively. But those places with great urban riding parks can be pretty cool too and then they aren't necessarily commuting for hours on end, because they live close enough.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> BUT, for urban folks that's not reasonable, so manyfolks are riding on teh way home from work or just driving to ride on the weekends.


true. But it is a "if you could live anywhere..." thread so dream big!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> true. But it is a "if you could live anywhere..." thread so dream big!


Ahh, well in that case, yeah, New Zealand or Tasmania, Spain might be cool, Italy, Portugal, Greece, though I'm pretty good with Northern Arizona 

It's the cold and snow that push me away from places I used to like, being a non snow sport guy these days (too many injuries), snow is just a hindrance these days.

I'm fortunate to be able to travel to ride, just got back from a week riding Sedona/Prescott/Vegas, looking at four day ride trip to Hurricane/SG for President's Day, meanwhile I got Vegas a 1/2 days drive from home if it's to snowy to rider here,, so yeah, dream big but if you gotta' live someplace, make sure it's a place you want to play in too.

In terms of livable city places, I think Spokane is very worthy, but the dark and cold are real, as is the snow. I live near Reno, I think it's decent place to live and play, pretty easy to hit the goods after work without a traffic nightmare.

Is there really a city place in CA that is not overrun with people and has the goods? Redding? (yuck!)

Smaller cities that have work opportunities for some professionals: Bend, Bellingham, Bozeman, Durango, Prescott, Medford, ...

Oh yeah, totally West focused and drier climes.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Carl Mega said:


> Reading this thread, I think many people are under estimating how having trails easily accessible without getting into a car will change your mtb-life-experience. 20 years ago, I thought having local trails meant within 10 miles... now that I have many trails just a few minute pedal from my door, I've learned what I was missing. Game changer and any area without this is a non-starter for me.





b rock said:


> Yeah, especially if you work full time and have younger kids. It makes weekday, morning, winter rides practical if you can skip driving. Also, it is cool to have that connection with your neighbors, enjoying, and taking care of the trails near where you live.


it is huuuuuge. I can put my kids on their bikes and be on the dirt in 15 mins without ever starting a car.


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## {|xDi|} (Dec 2, 2020)

Not sure never ridden anywhere but CA. Maybe Colorado or Utah?


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

WHALENARD said:


> The best are the escapee's that now vote in the communities of their chosen new location to make it more like.... California.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


I love talking to those people. Well in DC, NY, Chicago, LA we did it this way. Oh yeah, if it was so great why'd you leave?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> I love talking to those people. Well in DC, NY, Chicago, LA we did it this way. Oh yeah, if it was so great why'd you leave?


Exactly why I want to leave MD, get somewhere that's not like here and sure as hell don't want to change it.


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## KirkC (Aug 21, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> Is there really a city place in CA that is not overrun with people and has the goods? Redding? (yuck!)


San Luis Obispo is pretty awesome. Great biking, climate and not crowded. Priced accordingly (e.g. 1100 sq ft fixer upper $750k).


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

KirkC said:


> San Luis Obispo is pretty awesome. Great biking, climate and not crowded. Priced accordingly (e.g. 1100 sq ft fixer upper $750k).


I live in the DC metro area and 750k for a 1100 sq fixer upper is far from ok.

Sorry what Californians think is ok is mind boggling.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

KirkC said:


> San Luis Obispo is pretty awesome. Great biking, climate and not crowded. Priced accordingly (e.g. 1100 sq ft fixer upper $750k).


SLO and Paso are both awesome places to live. You ever eat at Woodstock's Pizza? I used to run IT for them. Made a few trips to SLO. Craving a Firestone tritip sandwich.....


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

Klurejr said:


> You ever eat at Woodstock's Pizza? I used to run IT for them. Made a few trips to SLO. Craving a Firestone tritip sandwich.....


Oh man, when my kids were younger and going to Language Academy by SDSU, I'd hit that Woodstock's after work for some take-out before picking them up. And more often than not, I'd wedge in a Cowles mountain hike.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

I haven’t been to SLO in ten years. Thinking a road trip is needed for this summer.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> Is there really a city place in CA that is not overrun with people and has the goods? Redding? (yuck!)


Not sure why you give Redding the thumbs down. It is fantastic riding wise also has Lake Shasta, Sacramento River, and fantastic skiing nearby. It was on my list of places to move but had too many 100+ days. Since you seem Ok with Arizona, can't see that being your complaint.

Aside from that, depends largely on what you consider a city place.

Sonora (Not Sonoma) and uphill from there. Tons of trains just up the hill from there. Mostly off official maps but the FS is aware of them and is working with locals to get them mapped/ legitimized.

Humbolt/ Eureka. I know there are trails there, but not sure how much.

Those are 2 I'm aware of, there are likely more. But again, what is your minimum size city?

Then there are a lot of smaller places like Weed.

Not really recommending California, I moved out of state a few years ago and have zero regrets. But there are some great places there still.


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## KirkC (Aug 21, 2010)

Klurejr said:


> SLO and Paso are both awesome places to live. You ever eat at Woodstock's Pizza? I used to run IT for them. Made a few trips to SLO. Craving a Firestone tritip sandwich.....


Yes Woodstock is great. I've had the tri-tip sandwich at Firestone Grill. Great food scene in SLO. I'm a DFW resident that has visited CA numerous times over the years (work and vacation). I'm a big fan of the wineries in the area so I think Paso is great. Really for someone with a big budget it would be a solid choice.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ogre said:


> Not sure why you give Redding the thumbs down. It is fantastic riding wise also has Lake Shasta, Sacramento River, and fantastic skiing nearby. It was on my list of places to move but had too many 100+ days. Since you seem Ok with Arizona, can't see that being your complaint.
> 
> Aside from that, depends largely on what you consider a city place.
> 
> ...


Redding is the Bakersfield of Northern California, hot and nasty, decent riding within driving distance, but not much in town, and what a bummer place to live.

I feel for you guys after the fires, but Redding has been an armpit since I've known it, ~forty years, such is the life of being on the I-5 corridor.

I get that folks defend their ground, but don't tell folks it's a good place to live and it certainly doesn't qualify for this thread as a dream destination for biking.

Always tell the truth, even if it hurts ...

I used to be a city planner and I taught urban development, so I have some understanding of how a place develops/will develop.

if you want to be in a lower crime and less transient community, choose a place that is not located on an interstate, even bring ten miles if the interstate can make a huge difference. Case in point: Eugene vs Corvallis.

Of course being located away from an interstate tends to limit growth and opportunities, but then growth is one of the factors that makes a place less ideal for quality of life.

Has anyone noticed a theme in these "where to live threads"? Many folks want to move away from cities, which begs the question of why did you live there to begin with?

Choose a place to live that is good for you, choose a career that allows you to live in a place that is good for you, move to a place that is good for you before you get old. Waiting to move until you retire is a terrible plan.

Just some thoughts to ponder on a Friday...

Here's my back yard:


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## 2Wheel Epix Mtb (Jan 14, 2021)

Bentonville, Arkansas. So many trails!!!! You can ride all year round!!


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

the one ring said:


> Oh man, when my kids were younger and going to Language Academy by SDSU, I'd hit that Woodstock's after work for some take-out before picking them up. And more often than not, I'd wedge in a Cowles mountain hike.


Yep! I still work close enough to hit that one or the one in PB when I can take a longer lunch break. The Owners gave me a special 50% everything (including beer) card that is good for 5 years. I have just under 1 year left on that. Need to use it some more!



KirkC said:


> Yes Woodstock is great. I've had the tri-tip sandwich at Firestone Grill. Great food scene in SLO. I'm a DFW resident that has visited CA numerous times over the years (work and vacation). I'm a big fan of the wineries in the area so I think Paso is great. Really for someone with a big budget it would be a solid choice.


Yeah the wine scene in Paso is great. I have not tried any wineries in SLO, but I am sure they have em.

I have friends who live at Heritage Ranch in Paso, it is a private community with it's own boat ramp on Lake Nacimiento. Really cool place to hang out in the summer.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

2Wheel Epix Mtb said:


> Bentonville, Arkansas. So many trails!!!! You can ride all year round!!


Today, January 15th 2021 it is 35 Degrees in Bentonville.

70 degrees in San Diego.

;-)


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Klurejr said:


> Today, January 15th 2021 it is 35 Degrees in Bentonville.
> 
> 70 degrees in San Diego.
> 
> ;-)


65 deg F in Reno


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

Right here in California's elbow seems pretty good, all the norcal options in easy reach. Just wish I had more time


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I'd say per capita there is zero difference in homeless/transients between Eugene or Corvallis. If anything Corvallis has more per population. 
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## Mugochap (Nov 12, 2010)

FJSnoozer said:


> Heat doesn't prevent you from riding. You prevent you from riding. The human body is pretty amazing and acclimatizes in only about 3-4 weeks. Your blood plasma volume changes and off you go.
> 
> I was doing 12-17 hours throughout the summer with a FT job.
> 
> ...


I'll disagree with you on this one FJ. I've been riding here in TX for 11 summers and I've spent countless hours researching and consulting with doctors and nutritionists about my issues with heat acclimation. Unfortunately not everyone's physiology allows them acclimate in the same manner. I have done excessive testing of hydration amounts and contents, I've done all sorts of testing with types of kit I wear but nothing has been a help for me. I am usually good for 2-2.5 hours of moderate riding before I start to heat bonk... it sucks, but it is what it is. I've learned to manage it better, but its still a limiting factor for me where I have friends who absolutely thrive in the heat. It's crazy. So usually my July/Aug/Sep rides are lower intensity and shorter.

That being said, I tend to have a much easier time acclimating to high altitude than many of the folks I know. I'm not sure why, but altitude tends to have a lesser impact for me as I don't typically have the same breathing/breathlessness issues that they do when we've been at high altitude whether it's been at the top of Burro Pass, Snowbowl or Molas Pass...


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> Redding is the Bakersfield of Northern California, hot and nasty, decent riding within driving distance, but not much in town, and what a bummer place to live.
> 
> I feel for you guys after the fires, but Redding has been an armpit since I've known it, ~forty years, such is the life of being on the I-5 corridor.


You can pedal from Redding up the bike trail to FB trail which is a pretty solid trail. I tend to live in the suburbs so I'd probably live on the west end of town near Whiskytown. But I don't live in Redding or California.



> it certainly doesn't qualify for this thread as a dream destination for biking.


Wasn't suggesting it was. I said it was a city in California which wasn't swarming with people. As I said. California isn't my bag.



> Here's my back yard:


I guess to each his/ her own. I have no love for buckbrush and brown. I'd live in Redding long before somewhere with a view like that.


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

Mugochap said:


> I'll disagree with you on this one FJ. I've been riding here in TX for 11 summers and I've spent countless hours researching and consulting with doctors and nutritionists about my issues with heat acclimation. Unfortunately not everyone's physiology allows them acclimate in the same manner. I have done excessive testing of hydration amounts and contents, I've done all sorts of testing with types of kit I wear but nothing has been a help for me. I am usually good for 2-2.5 hours of moderate riding before I start to heat bonk... it sucks, but it is what it is. I've learned to manage it better, but its still a limiting factor for me where I have friends who absolutely thrive in the heat. It's crazy. So usually my July/Aug/Sep rides are lower intensity and shorter.
> 
> That being said, I tend to have a much easier time acclimating to high altitude than many of the folks I know. I'm not sure why, but altitude tends to have a lesser impact for me as I don't typically have the same breathing/breathlessness issues that they do when we've been at high altitude whether it's been at the top of Burro Pass, Snowbowl or Molas Pass...


Totally agree. And, I have found that people who are able to better acclimate to the heat , don't get it. Was a marathon runner in my 20s and my times dramatically dropped if temp over 80. I ran much less in the summer and then only morning or night.

With MTB, I acclimate to a degree after a few weeks, but still am no where near at normal levels and I ride almost exclusively in the early morning during Tx summer.

Great analogy -how differently people repsond/acclimate to altitude. I too do this rather quickly.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

WHALENARD said:


> I'd say per capita there is zero difference in homeless/transients between Eugene or Corvallis. If anything Corvallis has more per population.


I don't live close enough to downtown to care a whole lot about homeless count. Eugene has more, better, and closer single track which is what I worry about. Corvallis is the king of gravel riding plus Mary's Peak!! But it's hard to beat hitting Lawler, Goodman, or half a dozen other options as after work options in the summer time.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Ogre said:


> I don't live close enough to downtown to care a whole lot about homeless count. Eugene has more, better, and closer single track which is what I worry about. Corvallis is the king of gravel riding plus Mary's Peak!! But it's hard to beat hitting Lawler, Goodman, or half a dozen other options as after work options in the summer time.


I've always liked the vibe in Eugene but couldn't speak to what's close in for riding. Corvallis is the about the perfect size in a town for my tastes and you could theoretically pedal to the Mac forest depending on where you lived. Plus you got Alsea etc kinda close. But yeah, nothing is going to beat living close to Oakridge for OR riding imo.

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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Where I live now.
A few trails, but unlimited forest road riding where you will not see a soul all day. A couple hours riding to a mountain lake, thrown a line in the water for a couple hours, then ride home. All without encountering another person.


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## Mugochap (Nov 12, 2010)

dave54 said:


> Where I live now.
> A few trails, but unlimited forest road riding where you will not see a soul all day. A couple hours riding to a mountain lake, thrown a line in the water for a couple hours, then ride home. All without encountering another person.


Sounds amazing... might I inquire as to where that is?


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## inonjoey (Jul 19, 2011)

I’d been having this very debate for well over a year while living in the Bay Area. The trails in the Bay Area and nearby are awesome, but the trail access issues, attitude of non bikers, crime, cost of living, traffic and general attitude of people? Not so much, my friend. 

Balancing work, recreation and environment to raise our kids (which pulls together a bunch of factors including cost of living, crime and culture), the wife and I chose Reno. San Luis Obispo was a very close second, but the cost of living and still being subject to statewide CA politics swung it towards Reno. I absolutely love SLO, but the balance of factors in Reno felt right. Now I get to send my kids to very good public schools, the job market is healthy and I get to choose between skiing in the Sierras or mountain biking in the desert in the winter (obviously the summer is sweet). We did give up SCUBA diving day trips and 4.5 hr (and cheap) direct flights to Maui, but it’s always a give and take. Point is, for my family and me, Reno made sense. 

I’m not recommending Reno per se, I’m more pointing out that the balance for you and yours is what’s important. That said, Reno/Northern Nevada is great. 


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

If you are searching for that ideal spot you want to pick one that not only has good riding but the surrounding communities also have good riding. It doesn't matter how good the riding is in your town, if you are riding enough you will eventually want to ride something different. Having different trails a short drive away is awesome.

I would also pick some place with a real but relatively short winter. Nothing rekindles your love a riding like a winter spent skiing. Just make sure winter isn't too long. Having lived in a place where trails don't clear to May I can attest that 6 months of winter is a bit much.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Klurejr said:


> Today, January 15th 2021 it is 35 Degrees in Bentonville.
> 
> 70 degrees in San Diego.
> 
> ;-)


33 today in Anchorage, but at least you get to ride on snow!


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## inonjoey (Jul 19, 2011)

Jayem said:


> 33 today in Anchorage, but at least you get to ride on snow!


I got into mountain biking spending summers in Anchorage with my brother. Honestly, I loved visiting in the winter just as much - my family always got outside (almost) no matter the temp. I haven't got back to Alaska in...... crap, 18 years! Hoping to make it up next summer.

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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

This conversation is entertaining. I certainly wouldn’t claim that my solution is the right answer for everyone, which is the most common type of post. Lots of people trying to convince others that they have the secret sauce. I remember my last drive through CA on our way to Sea Otter and blurting out (I might have had a few beers in the truck- as a passenger) “look at all these f_cking people who think they’re doing it right.” 

I live in a small town that doesn’t have a lot of things I love. We also have a winter that puts a coat of ice on the trails most years. But I have trails RIGHT HERE. Skiing is fun, and there are so many other activities. (MTB is still my favorite.) In my last place I had two trailheads leading in different ways within 100 yards of my front door. And basically no traffic. I moved here from NY metro. Two weeks before I moved I was managing a crew drilling environmental test borings in sidewalks on West 42nd Street. Just down from Times Square. It doesn’t get much busier than that - and I liked it. But now even the idea of Missoula or Bozeman gives me hives. My fiancé would love to move to Prescott. My uncle has a place there. But AZ has too many people- the idea creeps me out. 

Don’t overlook how amazing it is to have a low population density. COVID has really brought that to the fore.


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## So Cal RX (Oct 1, 2005)

Klurejr said:


> Today, January 15th 2021 it is 35 Degrees in Bentonville.
> 
> 70 degrees in San Diego.
> 
> ;-)


The summers are hot and humid too. I've found it's generally the same as Dallas Fort Worth.

You CAN ride year round, but it's not near ideal weather year round.


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## EKram (Oct 30, 2020)

Jackson Rich said:


> Also, shoutout to my current home, Southern Oregon. There's a ton of trails within 90 min of Medford. Some stuff gets muddy in the winter, but you can always find something dry to ride. I rode in Ashland today and the dirt was perfect. The big drawback for me is lack of culture.


Yup. Medford is fine. It will be quite awhile for culture in the rest of Southern OR. Spent time in area [connect the dots] Klamath Falls, Medford, Redmond, Klamath Falls. Wife is from Klamath Falls. Hates it. Most leave the area unless they are imbedded forever [schoolteacher, law enforcement, bookkeeper etc.] (not Medford so much). Her friends moved to the Medford area. Bend economy requires a big bank account if you're a visitor.

Great trout fishing, hiking, riding, scenery,-anything outdoors. Pacific Crest Trail and feeder trails nearby.
Jobs...Depends on what you do and how. Klamath falls is affordable living but slowly sliding backward after the logging industry left the area years ago.

*Fire season is annually a factor. Snowline too. Go to Crater lake. So awesome.*


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Mugochap said:


> Sounds amazing... might I inquire as to where that is?


Northeast California, Lassen area.


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## Jackson Rich (Aug 10, 2013)

dave54 said:


> Northeast California, Lassen area.


Susanville?


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

MTBRT said:


> Check out Roanoke, Va, Harrisburg, Va. All in the Shenandoah valley. 10 month to year round riding. Low cost of living, hundreds of miles of trails, bike parks, back country, gravel, what ever you want.


Yep. I think Roanoke is a really great place to be for moutain biking and good cost of living. Work pulled us away from the area 5 years ago and miss the riding badly, and it is just an easy area to live in. Fantastic road and gravel riding too.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Jackson Rich said:


> Susanville?


25 miles west.


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## inonjoey (Jul 19, 2011)

LMN said:


> If you are searching for that ideal spot you want to pick one that not only has good riding but the surrounding communities also have good riding. It doesn't matter how good the riding is in your town, if you are riding enough you will eventually want to ride something different. Having different trails a short drive away is awesome.
> 
> I would also pick some place with a real but relatively short winter. Nothing rekindles your love a riding like a winter spent skiing. Just make sure winter isn't too long. Having lived in a place where trails don't clear to May I can attest that 6 months of winter is a bit much.


Great point about the surrounding communities having good riding as well. There are a lot of locations that are pretty awesome in and of themselves, but are so isolated from other riding locales that they're quite limiting.

I would also add that being able to get to different types of terrain easily is a big plus. Desert riding is great, but it's a lot better when you can switch it up with some forest riding and vice versa.

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## phishstix (Mar 15, 2020)

phishstix said:


> Aptos, Ca.


Still Aptos.. sorry locs if I'm blowing yer cover.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

RS VR6 said:


> I think if I do end up leaving CA...in this current environment...it does seem like a possibility. New Mexico, Vegas area, Washington state...even northern AZ sound interesting.


I moved to the Vegas Valley this year from Western Massachusetts (which has some good riding itself). So far I'm loving it for both mountain biking and general outdoors stuff.

One great part of riding here is a lot of the trail systems are right beside residential areas. I live in Boulder City, so Bootleg Canyon is a 2 mile pedal, part of that on a bike path. It's fun pedaling up from your house and seeing folks camped out in the parking area from all over or factory race team vans coming to test/do the winter series.

Had we not lived in Boulder City, we'd have lived by the McCullough Trails in Henderson. They've expanded a lot in the last few years and are in a really good place as they are on land that kind of protrudes up into the city from the south and do are accessible from multiple different neighborhoods. They're also much friendlier than Bootleg for beginners. I took my young son there last week and he had a good time.

On the West side of town, you have Bears Best (enterprise/south summerlin) and Da Burbs (North Summerlin), both are right up against nicer neighborhoods. Plus Cowboy Trails and Blue Diamond a bit further out but not far.

Overall I was really impressed moving here how many options there were for neighborhoods with really good riding nearby. For a major urban area, it's very fortunate. Plus, it's two hours to St. George/Hurricane, 3.5 to Flagstaff, not that far to any of the SoCal stuff.

Obviously the caveat is that it's hot in the summer, so you either need to get up early to ride or head up Mt. Charleston. I haven't ridden there yet, only hiked, but Im hoping it's good.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

dave54 said:


> 25 miles west.


I wouldn't mind living in Lake Almanor. I stay in Chester when up there. I'm also considering Kernville. I'll need access to a shuttle driver though but theres also good fishing and access to the Southern Sierra.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

MarcusBrody said:


> I moved to the Vegas Valley this year from Western Massachusetts (which has some good riding itself). So far I'm loving it for both mountain biking and general outdoors stuff.
> 
> One great part of riding here is a lot of the trail systems are right beside residential areas. I live in Boulder City, so Bootleg Canyon is a 2 mile pedal, part of that on a bike path. It's fun pedaling up from your house and seeing folks camped out in the parking area from all over or factory race team vans coming to test/do the winter series.
> 
> ...


I go to Vegas a couple times a year. I like going there. It could be just me...but it feels like I'm so far away when its only a four hour drive. We usually ride the Blue Diamond area. I did ride Bears Best once. Vegas is probably the place I would go to if I was to move out of CA. I would probably look in the Enterprise area for a home. The heat is the one thing that would bother me. I have friends that live in Vegas and I asked what they do in the Summer time. They said that they "just stay inside with the AC". The heat seems to be mainly in the three summer months. I've ridden BD around September and it was in the low 80's. At least its a dry heat in Vegas😆. They also said to have the outside of the home sprayed once a month to keep the scorpions away.

Weather-wise...it'll be hard to get out of So Cal. Its 80 degrees with blue skies today...in the middle of winter.

Vegas seems to have a pretty legit food scene also😁.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

RS VR6 said:


> I go to Vegas a couple times a year. I like going there. It could be just me...but it feels like I'm so far away when its only a four hour drive. We usually ride the Blue Diamond area. I did ride Bears Best once. Vegas is probably the place I would go to if I was to move out of CA. I would probably look in the Enterprise area for a home. The heat is the one thing that would bother me. I have friends that live in Vegas and I asked what they do in the Summer time. They said that they "just stay inside with the AC". The heat seems to be mainly in the three summer months. I've ridden BD around September and it was in the low 80's. At least its a dry heat in Vegas😆. They also said to have the outside of the home sprayed once a month to keep the scorpions away.
> 
> Weather-wise...it'll be hard to get out of So Cal. Its 80 degrees with blue skies today...in the middle of winter.
> 
> Vegas seems to have a pretty legit food scene also😁.


Yeah the summer is hot. My plan when moving here was to join a rock gym and improve my climbing skills while it was hot as the climbing is great here. Covid killed that, but we live near Lake Mead, so we'd go there in the morning a couple times a week and swim until it started to get really hot then retreat inside for the afternoon. I'm a professor, so we'll plan our family visits and road trips to the north in summer and have people come see us during the winter.

Enterprise is a really nice spot outdoor access/price wise. I work on the very SE corner of Henderson so it wasn't as convenient for us, but I drove by the other day on my way to explore and thought that it was a good spot.

I also heard the food scene was good when I moved here, but am still waiting to find out. Damn Covid...


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

MarcusBrody said:


> Yeah the summer is hot. My plan when moving here was to join a rock gym and improve my climbing skills while it was hot as the climbing is great here. Covid killed that, but we live near Lake Mead, so we'd go there in the morning a couple times a week and swim until it started to get really hot then retreat inside for the afternoon. I'm a professor, so we'll plan our family visits and road trips to the north in summer and have people come see us during the winter.
> 
> Enterprise is a really nice spot outdoor access/price wise. I work on the very SE corner of Henderson so it wasn't as convenient for us, but I drove by the other day on my way to explore and thought that it was a good spot.
> 
> I also heard the food scene was good when I moved here, but am still waiting to find out. Damn Covid...


Summertime 5am runs on Bootleg canyon?

I like that place a ton. Have an uncle in Henderson and make a point of hitting it whenever possible.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

Ogre said:


> Summertime 5am runs on Bootleg canyon?
> 
> I like that place a ton. Have an uncle in Henderson and make a point of hitting it whenever possible.


Yep! Though I wasn't quite hardcore enough to be there at 5. If I could get there at 6 though I could do a lap and be home before my son got up.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

The sun comes up about 9:30-10am here right now. This matches perfectly with my weekend plans.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I was waiting at the start for the final timing buzzer, counting down at Boot. I was thinking about my very good friend Dave Collins who had designed and built some of the race courses. He was a former super d and dh CA state champ. He passed from cancer, early. We were very close. I was on the start waiting for the buzzer and thought, OK Dickhead, I'm on your course, show me love. The final buzzer sounded and I was off, and then I crashed 100' in tearing up my meniscus. I could only laugh but he got the last laugh.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

MarcusBrody said:


> Yep! Though I wasn't quite hardcore enough to be there at 5. If I could get there at 6 though I could do a lap and be home before my son got up.


I couldn't do 5am laps either, I'm more of a late to rise, late to bed.

LV is one of those places where I just couldn't live due to-too fugging hot. Also a bit bleak for my tastes. Needs more green!


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## ctxcrossx (Jan 13, 2004)

Carl Mega said:


> Reading this thread, I think many people are under estimating how having trails easily accessible without getting into a car will change your mtb-life-experience. 20 years ago, I thought having local trails meant within 10 miles... now that I have many trails just a few minute pedal from my door, I've learned what I was missing. Game changer and any area without this is a non-starter for me.





b rock said:


> Yeah, especially if you work full time and have younger kids. It makes weekday, morning, winter rides practical if you can skip driving. Also, it is cool to have that connection with your neighbors, enjoying, and taking care of the trails near where you live.


I totally get this, especially having young kids. The issue that I have found is that the people who live within riding distance to a trailhead is that it's about the only pleace they go to ride. I have many friends that live near different trailheads and about 95% of the time, they stay to that one system.

I'm happy to live about 15-45 minutes away from these (and other) trailheads so I end up going to many different places.

To each their own through. Maybe some just prefer to stick to one set of trails.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Ogre said:


> I couldn't do 5am laps either, I'm more of a late to rise, late to bed.
> 
> LV is one of those places where I just couldn't live due to-too fugging hot. Also a bit bleak for my tastes. Needs more green!


When I lived in Tucson "everyone" hit the trails before dawn and was out by 8am. It just became normal and "no one" was out in the afternoon. It became clear why a mid-day siesta was a smart thing to do.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Nat said:


> When I lived in Tucson "everyone" hit the trails before dawn and was out by 8am. It just became normal and "no one" was out in the afternoon. It became clear why a mid-day siesta was a smart thing to do.


Can totally see that, I was visiting Phoenix a few years ago in February for work, went outside around 9am and it was already 90 out. Central California was bad enough.

Here we suffer through ~4 months of rather wet/ cold/ shitty winter to have some rather fantastic spring/ summer/ fall riding.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

Ogre said:


> I couldn't do 5am laps either, I'm more of a late to rise, late to bed.
> 
> LV is one of those places where I just couldn't live due to-too fugging hot. Also a bit bleak for my tastes. Needs more green!


I expected to have more trouble with the lack of green than I have so far. I've always lived in forest basically. So far, it hasn't gotten to me The desert mountains are beautiful and add some visual interest to the landscape and I think the blue skies also help. I still get excited when I end up in a green spot though.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I live and ride in CTX and I assure you that no one can completely acclimate to the summer heat/ humidity. 
Sure I can ride decent enough and make it a good time, but I'm much slower overall and no amount of heat training can make that difference up. 
This humidity is as good as altitude training. I went to CO altitude last summer and I climbed very well with natives and felt strong and completely normal. 

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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

ctxcrossx said:


> I totally get this, especially having young kids. The issue that I have found is that the people who live within riding distance to a trailhead is that it's about the only pleace they go to ride. I have many friends that live near different trailheads and about 95% of the time, they stay to that one system.
> 
> I'm happy to live about 15-45 minutes away from these (and other) trailheads so I end up going to many different places.
> 
> To each their own through. Maybe some just prefer to stick to one set of trails.


It's kinda like the before and after work local surf spot. It's right there so you get the goods. It doesn't mean I don't drive to other local rides on the mountain, or road trips. I'll be riding over in an hour. What's funny is thousands drive by this beautiful network of forested rolling singletrack on their way to the bikepark. They can keep it.


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

Nat said:


> When I lived in Tucson "everyone" hit the trails before dawn and was out by 8am. It just became normal and "no one" was out in the afternoon. It became clear why a mid-day siesta was a smart thing to do.


The lack of daylight savings helps too! I lived in Flagstaff and you could be riding without lights at 5am some of the year


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

ctxcrossx said:


> To each their own through. Maybe some just prefer to stick to one set of trails.


Sort of a humble brag, but I could pedal to a different trail head/system every day of the week without repeats and still have a few left on the plate. I do have my favorites and I like to link areas together so that's how I usually do it. If I drove up to 20 or so minutes, the options really open up - true high country.

But back to the original question - its "live anywhere for mtb" and I think a lot of ppl are settling for what they are familiar with... Which for most places it means a few good options but typically drive is involved, or some other compromise for a shorter commute to work or whatever it is. Dunno, I guess if I'm day dreaming and working the fantasy it's got to be at least as good as I have it now and none of this non-sense "this place has better shopping" or "this place has better oil/tech jobs". The quality of the riding and community is where it is at IMHO.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

BC. Fernie or kicking horse mountain 

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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Picard said:


> BC. Fernie or kicking horse mountain
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Group ride with Picard!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dodge City. And you should too.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Picard said:


> BC. Fernie or kicking horse mountain
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Wait just a minute here.....you ride?


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Nat said:


> Group ride with Picard!


We can go for speedo group ride. Who wants to come with me?

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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Picard said:


> We can go for speedo group ride. Who wants to come with me?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


I'm out.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Nat said:


> I'm out.


WTF man? you miss out awesome ride with the captain?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Sorry for tagging on to this, don't want to hijack, but what actually living in Vegas like?

Seems like a good in-between spot for riding and traveling to other places.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

TwoTone said:


> Sorry for tagging on to this, don't want to hijack, but what actually living in Vegas like?
> 
> Seems like a good in-between spot for riding and traveling to other places.


I'll give it a go (though I'm not the best person to answer this as I moved to the Vegas Valley pretty recently and it's been anything but normal during my team here, so hopefully others will jump in too).

Background: I grew up in rural Appalachian PA before moving to DC for college and living there for a few years after (I believe you said you were there earlier in this thread). Moved to CT for grad school, then lived in Western Massachusetts for six years before I moved out here. I prefer outdoor activities to city amenities, though I like having a good movie theater and some decent restaurants nearby (though I'm not a haute cuisine person). I once cared about bars/nightlife a bit, but now that I'm in my late 30s with a 4 year old, it's not much of a factor in my calculus. I live in Boulder City, which is where Bootleg Canyon is located and maybe 30 minutes from the strip, but it's a very different world and very "small town Americana".

So far, I have LOVED living in the Vegas area. I have done exactly one thing that related to the actual city (going to the multiplex drive in, which is fun even though it's screens aren't great). The outdoor access is superb though. We moved during the scorching summer, but Lake Mead is next to Boulder City, so we'd go to the Martian beach either in the morning or late in the afternoon and swim for an hour or so before holing up in the middle of the day. We went up to Mount Charleston a couple of times to hike. It's at elevation, so temperatures were ~30 degrees lower and nice. It took us about an hour to get there, but we're literally as far as you can get from that side of town. As it's gotten cooler, I mountain bike a lot, mostly at Bootleg but also at another trail system about 15 minutes away that's better for my son. There are multiple other trail systems on the other side of town that I haven't even ridden yet that I'm excited to explore. On that same side of town is Red Rock, which is one of the top climbing areas in the country. We kayak in the pretty flat Colorado River below Lake Mead. Scramble tons of places.

The really cool thing is that Nevada and the parts of the neighboring states that border here are basically all public land. Drive down a road, turn down a dirt road, see an interesting ridge, climb it. See a promising slot canyon, explore it. Pull off somewhere and camp. For someone who has spent his whole life in the East, it's awesome.

As for the city itself, I'll mostly let others weigh in, but having a major airport very close by was a big plus for us. I've only used it a few times (job interviews then flying back after driving our stuff out), but it's been convenient. It will make visiting family and traveling other places pretty convenient. The food scene is supposed to be excellent and I enjoyed it when interviewing, but we haven't really experienced it given that we haven't been doing sit down dining since we moved here.

Cost of living is a bit less than where I lived previously in Western Mass, mostly due to no state income tax and low property taxes. Depending on your needs/desires, you can get a pretty nice place (3beds, 2 baths) in a good neighborhood for between 325-500k (though you can definitely get ritzier). A lot of the nicer, somewhat affordable neighborhoods in Henderson (Vegas's southern suburb and the second biggest city in NV) and Summerlin (probably Vegas's nicest area up towards Red Rock) are pretty bland. Just pretty non-descript nice enough mass produced architecture, but fine.

Access to other areas is really good. Southern Utah is 2-4 hours and we've been up a couple of times to the Zion or Duck Creek Village areas. Northern AZ is 15 minutes from my house with Flagstaff being 3.5 hours. Joshua Tree is pretty close. My son and took an afternoon trip over the CA border the other day to look for fossils. We're planning on going camping in Death Valley a few weeks from now. LA/Sand Diego are only 4-5 hours away, though we haven't gone yet given pandemic circumstances.

The bad: 
Summer is hot. No real getting around that, but we managed to get outside a bit nevertheless. My job is flexible, so we'll do our traveling in the summer and hopefully join a rock gym when Covid is over in order to have something to do when it's hot.

The schools range from decent to terrible. Part of it seems to be those low taxes mean low funding and lots of turnover. Part of it seems like it's just not an education-focused town. For a long time, Vegas was one of the places that you could still aspire to a good living without a college degree given the hospitality focus. That's changing now and the education system hasn't caught up. So if you have kids, you have to be very cognizant of school district boundaries. There does seem to be a very well performing set of public magnet schools/career and technical academies. My son isn't in school yet though, so I don't have any personal experience.

What do you look for in a home city?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

MarcusBrody said:


> I'll give it a go (though I'm not the best person to answer this as I moved to the Vegas Valley pretty recently and it's been anything but normal during my team here, so hopefully others will jump in too).
> 
> Background: I grew up in rural Appalachian PA before moving to DC for college and living there for a few years after (I believe you said you were there earlier in this thread). Moved to CT for grad school, then lived in Western Massachusetts for six years before I moved out here. I prefer outdoor activities to city amenities, though I like having a good movie theater and some decent restaurants nearby (though I'm not a haute cuisine person). I once cared about bars/nightlife a bit, but now that I'm in my late 30s with a 4 year old, it's not much of a factor in my calculus. I live in Boulder City, which is where Bootleg Canyon is located and maybe 30 minutes from the strip, but it's a very different world and very "small town Americana".
> 
> ...


Well was trying to not get too personal, but I'll be moving once my divorce is final(I'll be in my 50's and single) and my last kid hits college-finishing Junior year currently. So yes still a little ways away, but I like to follow these threads.

Tough decision. Austin is high on the list because of other hobbies I think I mentioned in the Texas thread. Rc racing- nice indoor and outdoor tracks close and some paintball close as well.

Just think the riding sounds a lot like MD riding and thought I might want something different.

Also concerned about what I read about how Austin is changing. I lived in LA and seems like what I'm reading indicates the refugees are bring their ideals with them even though its what created the mess they want to escape.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

MarcusBrody said:


> The food scene is supposed to be excellent and I enjoyed it when interviewing, but we haven't really experienced it given that we haven't been doing sit down dining since we moved here.


Only been to Vegas once, pre-pandemic (daughter's club soccer team/tournament).
Didn't do any riding, but found a great steakhouse called The Golden Steer. Great old school vintage vegas vibe, great steaks/service, $$$$ like any good steakhouse.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Vegas. I’ll never go there again if I can help it. Bootleg has some serious trails that will literally kill you even with armor. My hat is off to the locals. But it does have good access which is why I would split time there with conferences and then dash to Utah. Flag/Sedona is fairly close. 

I feel the same about most cities but I miss the vibe some urban areas have. 


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

DrDon said:


> Vegas. I'll never go there again if I can help it. Bootleg has some serious trails that will literally kill you even with armor. My hat is off to the locals. But it does have good access which is why I would split time there with conferences and then dash to Utah. Flag/Sedona is fairly close.
> 
> I feel the same about most cities but I miss the vibe some urban areas have.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Unfair! Bootleg has a few trails that will merely maim you.

The exposure did bother me when I got out here, but like anything else, you get used to it. I do spend the large majority of my time on the "XC" trails though (most of which still contain moves/sections which are lively). When I was looking for places to live, I actually kind of was looking near some of the other trail systems for more relaxed riding more accessible to the whole family. A combination of where my job is and liking Boulder City though meant that making Bootleg my home trails made the most sense.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

TwoTone said:


> Well was trying to not get too personal, but I'll be moving once my divorce is final(I'll be in my 50's and single) and my last kid hits college-finishing Junior year currently. So yes still a little ways away, but I like to follow these threads.
> 
> Tough decision. Austin is high on the list because of other hobbies I think I mentioned in the Texas thread. Rc racing- nice indoor and outdoor tracks close and some paintball close as well.
> 
> ...


Well I don't know much about the social scene for a single guy in his 50s, but there seem to be lots of RC tracks out here (Boulder City has a speedway set up for 1/4 scale cars and there are several others I believe in Vegas). The riding is definitely different from MD.

Vegas does have lots of CA transplants which everyone of course complains about. I'm not sure how they've affected things. The feeling my town and where I work in Henderson is kind of desert red neck, but I suspect the more downtown spots are a bit different in feel.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

MarcusBrody said:


> Well I don't know much about the social scene for a single guy in his 50s, but there seem to be lots of RC tracks out here (Boulder City has a speedway set up for 1/4 scale cars and there are several others I believe in Vegas). The riding is definitely different from MD.
> 
> Vegas does have lots of CA transplants which everyone of course complains about. I'm not sure how they've affected things. The feeling my town and where I work in Henderson is kind of desert red neck, but I suspect the more downtown spots are a bit different in feel.


Thanks for the input.It's going to be an interesting challenge. I know red neck very well, step dad is from a small coal mining town in WV. Definitely not me either.

good lord how PC can a message board get, filters red neck if it's one word.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

TwoTone said:


> Thanks for the input.It's going to be an interesting challenge. I know red neck very well, step dad is from a small coal mining town in WV. Definitely not me either.
> 
> good lord how PC can a message board get, filters red neck if it's one word.


Ha that did amuse me too when I got censored the first time I wrote it before editing to two words. I grew up in middle of nowhere small town PA, so I'm pretty red neck activity conversant even if I'm now probably too cosmopolitan to be one myself. It's been a bit of a bigger shift for my wife, but she's slowly finding her people. In some ways, Vegas being a transient city makes it easier to make friends as most people I'm meeting aren't connected to life long local networks. Very much like when I was young in DC. The vast majority of young professionals weren't from there, so lots of social groups were always forming/dissolving.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

MarcusBrody said:


> Ha that did amuse me too when I got censored the first time I wrote it before editing to two words. I grew up in middle of nowhere small town PA, so I'm pretty red neck activity conversant even if I'm now probably too cosmopolitan to be one myself. It's been a bit of a bigger shift for my wife, but she's slowly finding her people. In some ways, Vegas being a transient city makes it easier to make friends as most people I'm meeting aren't connected to life long local networks. Very much like when I was young in DC. The vast majority of young professionals weren't from there, so lots of social groups were always forming/dissolving.


I have family in Cumberland MD and I grew up in central PA.

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## drich (Oct 9, 2015)

I have some family in Vegas. Brutal in summer, but the rest of the year there has good riding. I love how quiet it gets just a short drive from the strip. It's true that the trails can be brutal.
There are a lot of negatives about being in So. CA, but I don't know of many other places that have year-round riding. I've ridden better trails out of state, but most of those trails are covered in snow right now.


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## kingofthehill29 (Oct 7, 2019)

2Wheel Epix Mtb said:


> Bentonville, Arkansas. So many trails!!!! You can ride all year round!!


I have been traveling to NWA and Bentonville regularly over the last year. I want to move there so bad but my career just wont let me. I need to be near manufacturing. I read through this thread (mostly skimmed), I didn't see much of a mention on Knoxville TN or other metros near by. I heard the mountain biking is supposed to be great there, does anyone have any knowledge on whether or not it is a good place to move for mountain biking?


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## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

Oh Vegas, 

I I wish that I could remember our times together better.

1992 NOLS course, climbing @ red rocks and stumbling on to a couple, on the yellow lines of Hwy 95, as The Beatles say "Da, da, doin' it the road". Late at night, thought that it was recent roadkill, scared the **** out of me! 

Interbike! Urban assault, from the strip to UNLV and back. Speed walking on mushrooms through major casinos; security was very confused.

SIA, hanging out with Glen Plake.

Let the antics proceed!

(but please don't make me live there)


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)




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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kingofthehill29 said:


> I have been traveling to NWA and Bentonville regularly over the last year. I want to move there so bad but my career just wont let me. I need to be near manufacturing. I read through this thread (mostly skimmed), I didn't see much of a mention on Knoxville TN or other metros near by. I heard the mountain biking is supposed to be great there, does anyone have any knowledge on whether or not it is a good place to move for mountain biking?


Trailforks is usually a pretty good indicator.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

drich said:


> There are a lot of negatives about being in So. CA, but I don't know of many other places that have year-round riding. I've ridden better trails out of state, but most of those trails are covered in snow right now.


What places don't have year round riding?


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## inonjoey (Jul 19, 2011)

kingofthehill29 said:


> I have been traveling to NWA and Bentonville regularly over the last year. I want to move there so bad but my career just wont let me. I need to be near manufacturing. I read through this thread (mostly skimmed), I didn't see much of a mention on Knoxville TN or other metros near by. I heard the mountain biking is supposed to be great there, does anyone have any knowledge on whether or not it is a good place to move for mountain biking?


I believe Bike did a feature on Knoxville. Wait, maybe it was Chattanooga? Tennessee is a beautiful state, but the time I spent there was either before I started mountain biking (as an 8-10 year old in the late 80s early 90s) or without a bike. Knoxville is a fun town. One thing I'd be wary about in Tennessee is the temp and humidity in the summer - it gets brutal. But, if you're used to it and time your rides, it'd be fine.

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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

rtsideup said:


> Oh Vegas,
> 
> I I wish that I could remember our times together better.
> 
> ...


SIA and Interbike had me in Vegas twice a year for many years, but I never considered living there. In fact, I couldn't wait for the trade shows to end so I could get away as fast as possible. Of course, all of my time was spent on the Strip. I had friends who lived there and said it was like any normal town when you got away from the Strip. For me, the heat is a no-go. I'll ride in 16F temps like this morning long before I'll ride in 100+ temps.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Jayem said:


> What places don't have year round riding?


Depends on your definition, grit and genetics

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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

sgltrak said:


> SIA and Interbike had me in Vegas twice a year for many years, but I never considered living there. In fact, I couldn't wait for the trade shows to end so I could get away as fast as possible. Of course, all of my time was spent on the Strip. I had friends who lived there and said it was like any normal town when you got away from the Strip. For me, the heat is a no-go. I'll ride in 16F temps like this morning long before I'll ride in 100+ temps.


I once skipped a conference after it was moved to Vegas at the last minute. I had negative interest in visiting. I've still never been on the strip (though obviously there's a pandemic disincentivizing it). But, man, did I change my opinion overall. Such excellent outdoor access, both locally and within afternoon/weekend trip range.

But yeah, summer is rough. You can get rides in before 7 or 8 and it's only very warm rather than unbearable, or get a job that gives you flexibility then and make it expedition season.


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## drich (Oct 9, 2015)

Yeah--I should have qualified the 'year-round' riding as I know folks throw on layers and ride fat bikes in snow, and strip down and carry tons of water in humid/super hot summer locations. I have been riding for the last month in shorts and a t-shirt on my regular 29er. We do get some hot days in summer, but easy to beat the heat by riding early or late, and we rarely get humidity. I own one base layer and no jacket. I grew up on the east coast and went to school in the midwest, so I've paid my dues. Happy where I am and ride in other locations when I can travel.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I’ve avoided Las Vegas as much as possible in the past but a couple of years ago we scrapped a ski trip at the last minute due to the forecast for heavy rain the entire time. Instead I booked a trip to LV just because it was the only place within easy reach that wasn’t supposed to get drenched. We ended up having a great time.


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