# Turner DHR or Intense M6



## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

I am going to be ordering a new DH frame in the next week and I can't decide on which one. Both will be coming to me with a CCDB shock so that is already figured out. 
Money is really not an issue, so don't mention that. 

I will be riding all over the eastcoast, all DH and nothing else. I do some racing(maybe once a month) expert class and usually place when I race, so I'm not a slow doofis. Since I am not a huge racer anymore and more of a fast rider I typically keep my frames for 2 or 3 seasons. 

I like the M6 because I have had 2 M1's in that past and liked the frames and the company. I also like the idea of the longer shock. 

I like the DHR because I tend to like a bike that I can flick around like my trail bike and I have heard that the DHR is like that. On the other had I am getting fatter and more lazy so maybe a M6 that will plow through shiz might be good too. 

any suggestions?
Other bikes and brands are out of the picture, except MAYBE a socom


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## Jettj45 (Jul 25, 2004)

I would say a DHR mainly because i like them better but also because when you bottom out the M6 there is some serious seat tube rub. There was a thread up earlier with a picture and the tire came in contact with pretty much the entire seat tube...


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

buy a DHR!!! this waepon is testet over years. simple and fast!!!


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## Wizard4620383 (May 12, 2007)

i simply hate these thread for one thing, not because we see 3 of this kind each days but at this point its crazy to ask people whats better between a DHR or a M6, its like asking should i buy a Ferrari Enzo or a Bugatti Veyron ? Both are SUPER great choice, you cant go wrong with any of them, the onyl way you can choose correctly its if you try them.... even if there is 1000 people that says you should go with the DHR you mght prefer the M6... i wont even give my opinion between these 2 bikes, because we all know both are capabilities of winning world cups, so dont worry, you will be satisfy !


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## clockwork (Dec 9, 2006)

I don't know how much I can help but I recently got a 05 dhr and like you I was on the fence between the m6 ,v10 and socom. The DHR wasn't even in my thoughts.

Anyways I scored a killer deal on the 05 dhr frame and decided to give it a shot . Right off the bat I felt very comfortable and was amazed with the bike . Out of all the bikes I have either rode or owned it has been the only one I have been able to ride like I stole it right of the bat .I mean the thing is so darn smooth and jumps well beyond my expectations for a 44lb bike . So as of now the new DHR is at the top of my list . I only bought the 05 to get a feel for the bike (I know they changed geo over the years) and would rather spend 500 for a frame vs.2400 and find it wasn't for me . 

My vote goes to the DHR. Besides IMO the Turner is built to be a long lasting frame vs. the season or 2 I feel intense is built for.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

Wizard4620383 said:


> i simply hate these thread for one thing, not because we see 3 of this kind each days but at this point its crazy to ask people whats better between a DHR or a M6, its like asking should i buy a Ferrari Enzo or a Bugatti Veyron ? Both are SUPER great choice, you cant go wrong with any of them, the onyl way you can choose correctly its if you try them.... even if there is 1000 people that says you should go with the DHR you mght prefer the M6... i wont even give my opinion between these 2 bikes, because we all know both are capabilities of winning world cups, so dont worry, you will be satisfy !


I don't really think your Bugatti-Ferrari comparison is a valid one. The two cars are completely different animals, totally different and not really comparable. I get you're point but I think you picked the wrong two cars.

I agree with the "ride both and then decide" logic though. I think thats the only way to be 100% confident you've made the right $6,000 decision.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

You can't go wrong with any of those two, try them out first.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

I rode a new DHR with a Double Barrel last week. I thought the shock kinda killed the frame because it made the back end feel so dead on a frame that is supposed to be really lively feeling.

I wouldn't get either personally. DHR's geometry and fit is just whacked now, and the M6 looks like another big flop from Intense if they can't even get their basic clearances correct.


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## Mwehahaha (Oct 3, 2006)

based on the geometries I (my opinion) would go with the M6... shorter stays/lower BB more "flickable"... if you like floating through stuff more than go with the DHR.

But I would also consider weight... like myself you race some and are a pretty skilled rider... I would go with the lighter bike... they are more fun, it's not being a weight weeny, it's being smart.


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## Ithnu (Feb 16, 2007)

Maybe a Socom huh? There's a guy on our team who loves his Socom and he's always flickin' it. Maybe to just show us that's he's cooler, or maybe because the bike is a ton of fun to ride and its very happy in the air.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

I hate these posts too, but I was hoping I could hear from someone that has ridden them. There is no way I will be able to ride them both, I might be able to get my hands on a DHR this weekend but I don't think I can get on a M6. 

My other problem with "trying" a bike is that the suspension is never how I like it which can make a great bike feel like crap.


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## Wizard4620383 (May 12, 2007)

mmm... then ill give you my opinion real fast; you have the choice between two great bikes for racing, the M6 gonna cost you more $$$ thats for sure, and at the end i dont think you gonna feel that the more $$$ you spent on the M6 gave you some bonus skill over the DHR... i personnaly think the DHR could be the best choice, but again you cant go wrong, i already ride a DHR 3 or 4 times and i test ride the M6 of my friend last week, the M6 is amazing, if you think the M3 could rail burms, the M6 its crazy, the bike sit very low too, its not a bike for new riders thats for sure, as for the DHR which i have a lot more experience on it compared to a M6, is to me more flickable, thats what i think personnaly, dont forget i only rode the m6 for a ride, so i cant give a good review for the m6, BUT the DHR is more flickable, rail burms, carry speed trough rock garden, way more compared to older models... now its your choice ! good luck .


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Ruling out other brands not withstanding, I'm eyeballing the new Karpiel Army while drooling. The changes makes the CG MUCH lower!


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## MTB_prodigy (Jun 16, 2007)

how much travel does the dhr get?


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Canfield Jedi!


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## Kjcorley (Jul 3, 2005)

bullcrew said:


> Canfield Jedi!


Yeah, I would take the Jedi over both of them based on suspension design (not to mention price). I would take the M6 in a heartbeat over the DHR though.


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

To have the privilege to decide between a DHR and a M6 is a pretty nice one indeed. 

I recently got a used 2006 DHR. I'm flip flop with the newer ones. For one, they don't look as cool as the square tubed ones, second, not 100% sure about the new geometry compared to the "drilled" geo that you can achieve with older DHR models. My drilled geo gives me quite a low bottom bracket, and a pretty slack head angle. The wheelbase remains on the normal side as well. 

Sadly I have not had any ride time on the DHR, but I bought the DHR frame based on the opinions you have already listed: that it is a flickable, whippable, compact and maneuverable bike. The new geo on the newer models seems promising, but I'd have to ride it to see. One thing I was impressed with my DHR is the quality Turner put into their frames, but you're also going to get that same quality with the M6. 

I'm not a huge fan of VPP to be honest. I rode a V10 and didn't like it. If your style is riding over everything in sight, just straight plowing over crap at high speeds then VPP is your best bet. If you like to pin trails and ride a more "rhythmic" ride, I think a Single Pivot is the better bet. 

I'm going to suggest a DHR, only because the frame itself is tried and true thus far (Not saying the M6 won't be), but the design has remained the same since 04, and its just super simple. Easy to use Zerk grease system, the progressive feel of Single Pivot, and Turner quality.


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## Bobby Peru (Sep 8, 2004)

40 lbs of Intense Socom love headed your way!


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

if you dont hafe $$ limit  the judge is the first choice!! this waepon is testet,simple and fast!!! low BB short front end and slack HT 18.4Kg


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

M6 or Socom!


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## Yukon (Jul 17, 2004)

Ive seen a 34.8lb Socom, sickest bike ever.


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

Mwehahaha said:


> But I would also consider weight... like myself you race some and are a pretty skilled rider... I would go with the lighter bike... they are more fun, it's not being a weight weeny, it's being smart.


Both frames are ~10-10.5lbs


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

I think you made your choice easily when you said you had a couple of M-1's...I am saying this because you liked the fsr rear of the M-1....when going to the DHR you will feel more brake jack....the M-3 has a little brake jack (the M-6 is pretty much the same bike but with lower leverage ratio on shock)...for what you have rode in the past then I would say get the M-6


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## D.B (Jan 19, 2004)

boogenman said:


> I hate these posts too, but I was hoping I could hear from someone that has ridden them. There is no way I will be able to ride them both, I might be able to get my hands on a DHR this weekend but I don't think I can get on a M6.
> 
> My other problem with "trying" a bike is that the suspension is never how I like it which can make a great bike feel like crap.


 If you're going to ride "east coast", go to Plattekill on the 3rd and 4th for the first race. You should probably be able to find an M6. If a small DHR will fit you, you're welcome to give mine a try.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2008)

i would probably go DHR. 

my buddies are going to kill me for saying that!


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

DHidiot said:


> DHR's geometry and fit is just whacked now


Not even close... Having come off the bike you currently ride to a new DHR, the last thing I'd think is the geo and fit are whacked.... it's quite the opposite. The bike rips, and my results between the R9 and the DHR are showing it. I'm not saying the R9 was a bad bike, I loved that thing, just saying the DHR isn't "whacked..." at all.
Actually, funny enough, the current numbers on the DHR are very very close to Sam Hills Sunday numbers... I know none of us are world cup level riders, but it's interesting none the less.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

D.B.

I will be there all weekend, I know of a few people that have medium DHR's and I will hop on one, I just hope I can get a chance to jump on a M6. I know of one person who has one but I am not sure he will have it with him, when I was at platty last week he was still waiting on parts.


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

M 6 in a heart-beat.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

rep_1969 said:


> M 6 in a heart-beat.


care to elaborate?

I think I am leaning towards the M6


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

boogenman said:


> care to elaborate?
> 
> I think I am leaning towards the M6


I ride/race a 2003 M1, love it. I've ridden a M3, even better, so I can only assume that the M6 is at an even higher level. Yes, I'm assuming, but it's an assumption based on having ridden the M1 and M3. I just don't think you can go wrong with the M6. . . . and I'd be VERY jealous!!


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Raptordude said:


> I'm not a huge fan of VPP to be honest. I rode a V10 and didn't like it. If your style is riding over everything in sight, just straight plowing over crap at high speeds then VPP is your best bet. If you like to pin trails and ride a more "rhythmic" ride, I think a Single Pivot is the better bet.


So all this is based on one ride on a V10? 

I've actually owned bikes with sp and vpp, and it takes some time to get used to either one if you're used to riding the other. The suspension type does NOT determine everything about how a bike rides, making these types of generalizations is not accurate.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

DHGnaR said:


> Not even close... Having come off the bike you currently ride to a new DHR, the last thing I'd think is the geo and fit are whacked.... it's quite the opposite. The bike rips, and my results between the R9 and the DHR are showing it. I'm not saying the R9 was a bad bike, I loved that thing, just saying the DHR isn't "whacked..." at all.
> Actually, funny enough, the current numbers on the DHR are very very close to Sam Hills Sunday numbers... I know none of us are world cup level riders, but it's interesting none the less.


I don't know man, I've ridden a bunch of the larges and it feels like I'm on a BMX bike and I keep hitting my knees on the bars.

They kinda feel faster because they feel like they're going to loop out but they feel too twitchy, but that might just be my style....


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## davep (Mar 11, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> I think you made your choice easily when you said you had a couple of M-1's...I am saying this because you liked the fsr rear of the M-1....when going to the DHR you will feel more brake jack....the M-3 has a little brake jack (the M-6 is pretty much the same bike but with lower leverage ratio on shock)...for what you have rode in the past then I would say get the M-6


Neither bike exibit any brake 'jack' or anti squat from braking forces. It is physically impossible.

Both bikes will have some squatting from brake force...but it is arguable which is more apparent (I have not ridden an M6, have you???). Talk to someone who actually rides a DHR (rather than blindly regurgitating e-rumor....). One could argue that some squat is actually a beneficial thing (it is according to most people who truely understand vehicle dynamics), as it tends to offset the front end dive from mass transfer.

When I had my DHR, i could not tell the difference in braking comming from a frame with a full neutral floating brake set-up.
FYI, Many people dont like the VPP suspension design exactly because the braking and pedaling interactions....


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## davep (Mar 11, 2005)

FYI, there was some info posted at another forum about the tire contact issues with the M6 (yes it does hit the seat tube at bottom out). 

The word from Intense was that they were working on a replacement drop-out that would fix the wheel contact but(and) it will raise the bb a bit. 

It will definately take a bit of learning to ride the M6 with out clipping the bb/pedals on the ground. The bb is VERY LOW (lower than a sunday by a good bit, and has more travel)...some love it (me) some don't.


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## viciousdher (Dec 22, 2006)

hmm. I like the last two better than your choices. The turner is a PLOW bike very similar to a Foes mono. No time on the Intense but they are a fine companyfrom my experience


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## rodriguez1 (May 8, 2006)

m6 is nice!!
But you did say that money was no issue, get the 08 ion. thats a sick bike.


















​


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Jettj45 said:


> I would say a DHR mainly because i like them better but also because when you bottom out the M6 there is some serious seat tube rub. There was a thread up earlier with a picture and the tire came in contact with pretty much the entire seat tube...


any links of this issue


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

davep said:


> Neither bike exibit any brake 'jack' or anti squat from braking forces. It is physically impossible.
> 
> Both bikes will have some squatting from brake force...but it is arguable which is more apparent (I have not ridden an M6, have you???). Talk to someone who actually rides a DHR (rather than blindly regurgitating e-rumor....). One could argue that some squat is actually a beneficial thing (it is according to most people who truely understand vehicle dynamics), as it tends to offset the front end dive from mass transfer.
> 
> ...


cough cough Bullshiat...cough cough

I have rode DHR's and felt brake jack.....I have not rode the M-6 but My M-3 you can feel it....felt it on a trail in Santa barbara that had a washboard effect and at mammoth

I know my fact on this one...this isn't even a contest on this


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## davep (Mar 11, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> cough cough Bullshiat...cough cough
> 
> I have rode DHR's and felt brake jack.....I have not rode the M-6 but My M-3 you can feel it....felt it on a trail in Santa barbara that had a washboard effect and at mammoth
> 
> I know my fact on this one...this isn't even a contest on this


I know you are a 'fixture' around here, but PLEASE educate yourself before you post total BS. Whether it is your blatent imaginary information about the products you try to push on people (Marz, Intense..that you make up things about...) or your absolute lack of knowledge technical terminology like this, or Michelin tires......your posts help no one.

If you are so determined to post in every thread that you know nothing about, please do everyone a favor and do a minute of research....or just STFU when you do not know the topic, and stop posting garbage.

FYI 'jack' is a poorly used term taken to mean 'anti-squat' in this use. There are currently NO bicycles on the market (that I am aware of) that are capable of having brake induced anti squat (lawill with no floater was the only one that I am aware of). Almost every bicycle does and should have some brake induced 'squat'...this is the exact opposite of 'jack'.

Please read: http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=35572


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## KillingtonVT (Apr 1, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Canfield Jedi!


You know my thoughts here... Jedi!!! It will do everything that you are asking AND thier customer service ROCKS!!!


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## 1soulrider (Jan 21, 2004)

viciousdher said:


> hmm. I like the last two better than your choices. The turner is a PLOW bike very similar to a Foes mono. No time on the Intense but they are a fine companyfrom my experience


Too funny!

The DHR is so far from a 'plow' bike or a Foes Mono that you couldn't be more wrong.
I was on a Foes Mono w/ a floater, and went to the DHR because it was so much more nimble and agile. Oh, and it corners so damn good its hard to believe until you spend time on one.
I was worried about brake jack as well having been on a bike with a floating brake for a couple of years. 
The DHR does not jack under braking, period. The suspension will settle slightly as the rear brake is applied, a trait I like because it helps balance the bike in steep terrain.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

davep said:


> I know you are a 'fixture' around here, but PLEASE educate yourself before you post total BS. Whether it is your blatent imaginary information about the products you try to push on people (Marz, Intense..that you make up things about...) or your absolute lack of knowledge technical terminology like this, or Michelin tires......your posts help no one.
> 
> FYI 'jack' is a poorly used term taken to mean 'anti-squat' in this use. There are currently NO bicycles on the market (that I am aware of) that are capable of having brake induced anti squat (lawill with no floater was the only one that I am aware of). Almost every bicycle does and should have some brake induced 'squat'...this is the exact opposite of 'jack'.
> 
> Please read: http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=35572


brake jack......where the rear end hops through studder bumps under braking conditions.....and I said my M-3 does it too, along with the DHR.....how is that supporting Intense with a negative comment....My FSR Recoil does better in those situations.....read the fine print


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> cough cough Bullshiat...cough cough
> 
> I have rode DHR's and felt brake jack.....I have not rode the M-6 but My M-3 you can feel it....felt it on a trail in Santa barbara that had a washboard effect and at mammoth
> 
> I know my fact on this one...this isn't even a contest on this


Yeah it's an issue if you suck and drag your brakes through everything and "can't ride anything with brake jack". You should barely be touching your rear brake in a straightaway anyhow....


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

Both bikes are really nice and at Go-ride.com we sell them both so I have no real bias. 

07/08 DHR - is very nice bike that is more on the finese side of things and definitely not a plow bike. I find this bike hits the lines I want, pedals well for a DH bike, and has very mild brake squat (not brake jack). I like a bit of brake squat because it offsets fork dive when hard on the brakes. Bikes that are "neutral braking" feel like they stand up in the back when hard on the brakes and I don't like that. This bike is quite light, has proven itself for a full season, and I think the geometry is spot on.

08 M6 - we are building our first one this week. Early reports are mixed with the very very low BB for the amount of travel it has and some tire rub issues. If you ride in an area with deep ruts or lots of rocks this may not be the bike for you. As for the tire rub I don't know what size tire people are having problems with, but if you like tires bigger than a Maxxis 2.5 or Kenda 2.4 then you may have problems. When we get ours built, I'll write more about what we've found.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

I have an update for my above post.

The latest M6 just arrived and it has new dropouts. The dropouts appear to be longer and definitely angle downward from the chainstay instead of slightly upward as shown in the picture on Intense's website. From what I can tell the stays are now 17.5" in length to get tire clearance and I'm guessing the BB will be a lot closer to 14" than the reports of 13" from some riders. We'll know more in a few days when it gets built.


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## Irrenarzt (Apr 19, 2006)

Intense said awhile back that they were going to offer a different, less racy set of dropouts for the M6 over on the Intense board. Looks like these are them.


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## Irrenarzt (Apr 19, 2006)

Yukon said:


> Ive seen a 34.8lb Socom, sickest bike ever.


Which Socom are you referring to?


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

davec113 said:


> So all this is based on one ride on a V10?
> 
> I've actually owned bikes with sp and vpp, and it takes some time to get used to either one if you're used to riding the other. The suspension type does NOT determine everything about how a bike rides, making these types of generalizations is not accurate.


I don't know man...I borrowed a V10 for a ride down the trail...I wasn't able to get the extensive time I wanted on it, but that's how it goes sometimes. I did get extensive time on a Sunday though...bleh.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Irrenarzt said:


> Intense said awhile back that they were going to offer a different, less racy set of dropouts for the M6 over on the Intense board. Looks like these are them.


yup... tire rub or clearance won't be an issue anymore, but the bb is up 1/2", and it'll steepen the ha, but I don't know how much... I'd guess 1 deg. based on how much the bb is moving.

link:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=398660


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## MTB_prodigy (Jun 16, 2007)

What kind of fork is on that m6?


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## Irrenarzt (Apr 19, 2006)

MTB_prodigy said:


> What kind of fork is on that m6?


2008 Manitou Triple Intrinsic 203 in Grandmas Lipstick color I think.


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## davep (Mar 11, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> brake jack......where the rear end hops through studder bumps under braking conditions.....and I said my M-3 does it too, along with the DHR.....how is that supporting Intense with a negative comment....My FSR Recoil does better in those situations.....read the fine print


OK, Bob, once again, your are mis-using this term. If you are going to use a word, know its meaning. 'jack' = anti squat...Neither bike have any.

Making up you own deffinitions for words you do not understand, does not make it so. BTW it is 'stutter'....

I posted a link above, you should really read through it.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

davep said:


> OK, Bob, once again, your are mis-using this term. If you are going to use a word, know its meaning. 'jack' = anti squat...Neither bike have any.
> 
> Making up you own deffinitions for words you do not understand, does not make it so. BTW it is 'stutter'....
> 
> I posted a link above, you should really read through it.


SMT: what he's getting at is that you are entirely wrong on all counts. He's right. 95% of the other people on this board know it, just nobody wants to have to talk to you long enough to actually tell you. But by telling him he's wrong you're just making yourself look even more like an ass.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

davep said:


> OK, Bob, once again, your are mis-using this term. If you are going to use a word, know its meaning. 'jack' = anti squat...Neither bike have any.
> 
> Making up you own deffinitions for words you do not understand, does not make it so. BTW it is 'stutter'....
> 
> I posted a link above, you should really read through it.


ok....what do you call when the rear end suspension locks up over bumps and bounces instead of staying active when brakes are applied....so basically you get wheel hop


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## clockwork (Dec 9, 2006)

Skipping  just like a rock on water


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## bamxbam (Jan 22, 2004)

The dhr is what i went with i was in the same dilema and im very happy. DH idiot you can ride my bike again 2 clicks on lsc and it will be much more lively as you like . Also I feel the dhr is a tougher bike my buddys new m6 feels like paper to me but I weigh 225 neekid


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## trailripper (Apr 30, 2007)

bamxbam said:


> The dhr is what i went with i was in the same dilema and im very happy. DH idiot you can ride my bike again 2 clicks on lsc and it will be much more lively as you like . Also I feel the dhr is a tougher bike my buddys new m6 feels like paper to me but I weigh 225 neekid


periods? commas?


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## bamxbam (Jan 22, 2004)

sorry feeding baby and typing same time


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> ok....what do you call when the rear end suspension locks up over bumps and bounces instead of staying active when brakes are applied....so basically you get wheel hop


I'll admit, I fully don't understand the forces at work that cause the suspension to stiffen up under heavy braking; but from what I do understand, this is what happens when your bike "squats." This is the feeling you're referring to as "brake jack," when "brake squat" is what is really happening.
And FWIW, the DHR has a little intentional squat according to Dave Turner, as it can be beneficial. But I've never had a loss of traction due to it at all... plus, you shouldn't be braking in corners anyways.


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

SJensen said:


> periods? commas?


Or, how about capitol letters and complete sentences?


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

I had a chance to pedal around a few different M6's over the weekend, man it is an awesome bike! Meduim feels like small and I am 5'10"

I ordered my medium red with a CCDB yesterday:thumbsup:


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## Mudd (Apr 22, 2002)

boogenman said:


> I had a chance to pedal around a few different M6's over the weekend, man it is an awesome bike! Meduim feels like small and I am 5'10"
> 
> I ordered my medium red with a CCDB yesterday:thumbsup:


Dang! Sweet setup!


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

Wizard4620383 said:


> i simply hate these thread for one thing, not because we see 3 of this kind each days but at this point its crazy to ask people whats better between a DHR or a M6, its like asking should i buy a Ferrari Enzo or a Bugatti Veyron ? Both are SUPER great choice, you cant go wrong with any of them, the onyl way you can choose correctly its if you try them.... even if there is 1000 people that says you should go with the DHR you mght prefer the M6... i wont even give my opinion between these 2 bikes, because we all know both are capabilities of winning world cups, so dont worry, you will be satisfy !


These threads are the whole idea behind MTBR. I was choosing between 3 frames last year, a DHR, Glory and Izimu. I narrowed my choices to three, but I still wanted to see what the general consensus was. There are a lot of smart and informative people here that know their stuff. I would've never gotten my 06 DHR if I didn't know about the drill mod that someone informed me about here. Now my DHR has exactly the Geo I want.

These threads are annoying cause people that have 0 experience with either frame will come in here and say "Get a M6, they look cool". Or, in a more relevant example in another thread (Between a V10 and Judge) post "V10!" then attach a picture of a person riding a V10...

It's up to the original poster to nit pick which information is crucial or not, that's what I had to do in my thread deciding between 3 frames. Some people will help you out and give you good info, some wont. I consider these threads hardly useless.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> ok....what do you call when the rear end suspension locks up over bumps and bounces instead of staying active when brakes are applied....so basically you get wheel hop


If it "locks up" because it's stiffening due to the rear suspension squatting when the brakes are applied, it's called "brake-squat". This causes it to skip and not react well to impacts because the suspension is partially compressed and the "starting" spring force is now much higher, so impacts aren't going to be absorbed very well (not to mention that you have a lot less travel available) and it's going to skip around a lot on the super steep stuff when your on the brakes. Most bikes do this, but I would argue that on lesser travel bikes it's not very noticable and on the bigger travel bikes it's such a small percentage of your actual trail-time where this is an issue, but on the other hand people like myself like the rear suspension to be active and to not have these traits in these situations, even if it doesn't make up very much of the riding that I do. It's usually on the super-steep rough stuff where I notice this the most, and these are usually situations where you do NOT want to fall because it's a long way down and you aren't going to come to a stop for a while. This has to usually be some pretty whacked out terrain though, I'm not talking about a little short roller but an extended steep slope where you "gotta do it right".

If it "locks up" because it's stiffening due to the rear suspension extending when the brakes are applied, it's called "brake-jack", or "stinkbugging". This has a similer effect to the above because now there's a force that is causing the suspension to be extended and all the bumps have to contend with this extra force to compress the rear suspension, so it's like having a heavier spring on the bike while you are braking, causing you to sag less or not at all, and causing the rear suspension to skip and bounce and not be very active, but for the opposite reason that I described above. The other real bad thing about stinkbugging is the forward-rotating moment that you get and the fact that it effectively steepens the head angle, which can cause you to endo. Bikes that did/do this were the old lawill yeti/schwinn designs, GT LTS bikes, and a few others.

On one hand I feel that I'm one of the persons that can easily tell the difference between "active" braking and a bike that squats.


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## DHsloth (Sep 30, 2005)

I like both companies...They both have extensive R&D in making there frames. I'm gearing towards the M6 because they use easton tubing....I don't know about Turner...I think you're gonna excel on both bikes if you get used to them...How much do you weigh? I'm 145 lbs and Socom is more that enough...IMHO I don't think you will need more than 8in of travel for DH racing.


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