# Chevy Silverado or Avalanche?



## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Any advice or thoughts? I'm looking a new 07 truck and am undecided between the two. 

Basically I'd like a truck where I can leave my bike in the back and take off for a ride after work. So, either a Chevrolet Avalanche with the back cover or I can get a locking tonneau on a Silverado. Does a bike fit in the back of the avalanche (with the front wheel off if need be)?

I think the avalanche might be a nicer ride, and probably better for skiing in the winter, but the silverado is a bit less... opinions?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Silverado*



bhsavery said:


> Any advice or thoughts? I'm looking a new 07 truck and am undecided between the two.
> 
> Basically I'd like a truck where I can leave my bike in the back and take off for a ride after work. So, either a Chevrolet Avalanche with the back cover or I can get a locking tonneau on a Silverado. Does a bike fit in the back of the avalanche (with the front wheel off if need be)?
> 
> I think the avalanche might be a nicer ride, and probably better for skiing in the winter, but the silverado is a bit less... opinions?


The 'Anche looks butt frickin ugly, IMHO. The Silverado is nice. I clocked a couple thousand miles in an '02 Silverado last summer for a big project across the whole state of California for work. My only real complaint would be that it has a gianormous turning circle. Maybe they fixed that in later years.

That said, do you really need a truck that big? Just saying.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Fair enough point. Yeah I need a truck with at least SOME towing capacity (for a boat). So a colorado or Ford Ranger are kinda out, maybe a Toyota Tacoma would work, but I'm a chevy guy!


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## Peej (Feb 6, 2004)

*Neither*

 Sell the boat and don't buy anything that gets less than 30 mpg.  Haven't you heard? Driving anything that gets less is a ridiculous.:thumbsup:


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## Eric Hoefer (Jan 19, 2004)

Just get the Silverado with the Duramax  Actually a Tacoma isnt a bad truck. My buddy has a 2000 Tacoma SRS V6 and he tows his boat with it and usually gets 20-22 mpg (Not while towing of course).


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

The newly restyled Avalanche looks much better than the new Silverado. How big is the boat? I towed my brother's Air Nautique 210 TE with my Ridgeline. My younger brother, who usually tows the boat with his Titan was super impressed with the ease the Ridgeline handled it, I too was surprised. The Taco has a bit more power then the RL so definitely take a look at it if your boat isn't too heavy.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Boat's roughly 2K lbs. 

Why the hell is toyota the only car company that can build a decent smaller truck??


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

The Taco isn't so small anymore. Most the small trucks are pretty large these days. The Frontier is also a nice small truck, the only problem I had with it and the Taco were the smallish interiors, so after lots of testing went with the RL. The RL has it's own issues like weird-ish styling, no low-range, short bed, etc. But for me it was the perfect vehicle and with the nice wheels and a little more rubber looks pretty good. 

Does the 2K include the trailer? The boat above, including trailer was probably around 4.5K and the RL had no problems. The Taco and the Frontier both are rated to pull more than the RL. The RL would probably perform better than either in terms of control (it's heavier) and braking, but both have larger-more powerful 4.0 liter engines. Most compact trucks should be able to handle towing your boat.


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## LiveToRide (Feb 5, 2007)

I've got an '02 Silverado with the extended cab, the back seat folds up and the bike fits in there real nice without taking the front wheel off.


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## jb8483 (Jun 22, 2006)

bhsavery said:


> tonneau on a Silverado.


I hate those things... I'm a camper shell guy



pimpbot said:


> The 'Anche looks butt frickin ugly, IMHO.


No way. I think they are both look awesome!

There's a honda ridgeline in a chevy truck thread, isn't that like swearing in church? 

I say if you are going to be carrying people around, get the avalanche. If not get the truck.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Good thoughts. 

Yeah I'm more of a chevy truck guy, also have a sh!t-ton of gm mastercard points to use. But if I could find a used late model tacoma at a decent price... problem is, a 2004+ tacoma with 4x4 and extended cab around almost 20K! Used! 

So I guess I'm going to test drive again both this weekend and get a better idea


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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

Well, if you're a chevy guy, you already know the answer. There's no substitute for a full size truck when a "truck" is what you need.

Too, I'd be amazed that the trailer and boat that ridgeline is towing is over 3500 lbs.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

mopartodd said:


> Well, if you're a chevy guy, you already know the answer. There's no substitute for a full size truck when a "truck" is what you need.
> 
> Too, I'd be amazed that the trailer and boat that ridgeline is towing is over 3500 lbs.


The boat's dry weight is 3190lbs. Not sure how much the tandem trailer is but I've heard it's more than 1000 lbs.

http://www.waterskimag.com/product.jsp?ID=66236&product=boat&clientID=25227

Stats

Length Overall: 22'8" Beam: 7'7" Dry Weight: 3,190 lb. Seating/Weight Capacity: 10/1,450 lb. Fuel Capacity: 39 gal. Max HP: 375 MSRP (test boat): $59,476


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## TeamRoundBoys (Jan 3, 2005)

Boat: Break Out Another Thousand!


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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

TeamRoundBoys said:


> Boat: Break Out Another Thousand!


You kow what the definition of a boat is....

A hole in the water you throw money in.

Yeah, I know it's old.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

I always think my Honda Element is ugly , just until a chevy avalanche drives by:thumbsup:


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

SCC said:


> I always think my Honda Element is ugly , just until a chevy avalanche drives by:thumbsup:


Have you seen the 07 Avalanche?


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

TCW said:


> Have you seen the 07 Avalanche?


Yup, not only are they ugly ,but they are useless:thumbsup: Ranks right up there with a Pontiac Aztec, now called a Buick Rendevous.


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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

TCW said:


> Have you seen the 07 Avalanche?


The 2007 Chevy trucks are much better looking since the redesign, for sure.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Let me add...*



pimpbot said:


> The 'Anche looks butt frickin ugly, IMHO. The Silverado is nice. I clocked a couple thousand miles in an '02 Silverado last summer for a big project across the whole state of California for work. My only real complaint would be that it has a gianormous turning circle. Maybe they fixed that in later years.
> 
> That said, do you really need a truck that big? Just saying.


... why the fudge can't GM make a truck where the centerline of the steering wheel matches the centerline of the driver's seat? This drives me nuts about every GM truck I have driven.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Ugly, shmugly, looks are all personal.

Either way I think the Avalanche is for me... took a test drive this weekend. I think the kicker was the locking storage boxes/beercoolers


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Go for it, the reviews so far are good for the 2007 models. The new styling is really nice. I think you can only get the DOD system on the 2 wheel drive models though. I also read a 6.0 liter will be available soon, if you needed more power.

Check out this lockable-built in cooler:


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

I own an Avalanche and it has been awesome. Mine is a 2002, has 95,000 miles and never had 1 problem with it. My brother bought the 2007 Avalanche, last September, he also loves his. I would highly recommend this truck to anyone. 
I have been thinking of buying the new Silverado, in addition to my Avalanche, I think the new Chevy's and GMC's are a great new truck.

Why is there always someone who says" buy a Toyota Tundra or Tacoma", why? when you could have a more capable truck like the Avalanche or Silverado.
As far as buying something that gets 30 MPG, I'll be the first in line when they make one that can tow over 8000lbs+ and haul over 1200lbs+ and of course, the brand would have to either Chevy, GMC, Ford or Dodge....no foriegn brands for me.

Believe it not, like it or not, some people do need a big truck or an SUV.


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## gadgetaddict (Jun 21, 2007)

My friend can fit his Yamaha R6 in the bed of his Avalanche, so I don't think a bike will be a problem.

g.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Yeah picked up the Black avalanche last night! Its awesome. Gas mileage, not great, but I don't drive unless I'm going biking or something.

The nice thing is that my bike fits in the bed, with the bed cover on and locked. So that's nice if you have to leave your car somewhere and don't want to take the bike out.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Good choice, I too have a black Avalanche and so does my brother.
Beleive it not, I had trips where my Avalanche averaged over 20mpg.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> I own an Avalanche and it has been awesome. Mine is a 2002, has 95,000 miles and never had 1 problem with it. My brother bought the 2007 Avalanche, last September, he also loves his. I would highly recommend this truck to anyone.
> I have been thinking of buying the new Silverado, in addition to my Avalanche, I think the new Chevy's and GMC's are a great new truck.
> 
> Why is there always someone who says" buy a Toyota Tundra or Tacoma", why? when you could have a more capable truck like the Avalanche or Silverado.
> ...


Are they really more capable than a Tundra, Titan or Tacoma? By the way, the first person to mention the Tacoma was the guy who started the thread. I'm a little biased toward imports due to negative domestic-truck experiences but will admit that "if" I needed a bigger vehicle the new Avalanche would be a contender. I believe the domestics have recently done a good job stepping up their quality.

bhsavery, congrats on the purchase. Post a pic for us. Did you upgrade to the 20" wheels?


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Good choice, I too have a black Avalanche and so does my brother.
> Beleive it not, I had trips where my Avalanche averaged over 20mpg.


Does you brother's have the DOD system?


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

I think that they are more capable, the Duramax can haul or tow almost double what the Tundra and Titan can, lets not even talk about the Tacoma in this conversation.
The Avalanche has features no other truck or SUV have, so I do believe in what I stated.
Anyway, everyone has their own ideas of what they want in a vehicle, I just like want the domestic brands have to offer.

What is the DOD system? I know my brother has the LT2 model, which is pretty much fully loaded. It came with the 20" wheels, in which he right away traded out for new 22" black wheels, he then gave me the stock 20"ers, to which I installed on my Avalanche.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> I think that they are more capable, the Duramax can haul or tow almost double what the Tundra and Titan can, lets not even talk about the Tacoma in this conversation.
> The Avalanche has features no other truck or SUV have, so I do believe in what I stated.
> Anyway, everyone has their own ideas of what they want in a vehicle, I just like want the domestic brands have to offer.
> 
> What is the DOD system? I know my brother has the LT2 model, which is pretty much fully loaded. It came with the 20" wheels, in which he right away traded out for new 22" black wheels, he then gave me the stock 20"ers, to which I installed on my Avalanche.


Okay, you were talking Duramax, I figured you were talking 1/2 ton gasoline V8. The DOD sytem is Chevy's version of cylinder deactivation so that only 4 cyclinders work under light loads - coasting or going downhill. Supposed to save some fuel. Awesome that you ended up with the 20s. A complaint I've always had with Avalanches (not the new ones) and most trucks are the dinky wheels/tires on them, makes it look like a turtle. My Ridgeline suffered extremely from the turtle look until I put on the 20s with wider and slightly taller rubber. A buddy of mine has an '05 Avalanche 4X4. His model doesn't have the plastic cladding. Anyway, he put on 16" wheels with large offroad tires. I was amazed how cool it ended up looking with the wheels/tires upgrade.

Also, since the original poster said his boat only weighed 2.5K lbs. and also brought up the Tacoma, that's why I mentioned it.

I have another buddy that just got a heavy-duty 4X4 Chevy with a Duramax. He owns a wheels/tires/accessory shop so his vehicles are always super sweet his wife just got a new Tahoe. It is an amazing truck and pulls his 5K lbs. Supra Launch wakeboard boat with ease.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Yeah tacomas are nice truck. Problem is that they're expensive (with any reasonable amount of options) for a truck that comparatively is a significant amount smaller and can haul quite a bit less than a chevy silverado or avalanche. Either way I love the avalanche! Will post pictures later.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Yes, my brother does have the DOD sysyem, I knew what it was, I just did'nt know the offical name of it.My Avalanche is the model that has the cladding, some people have a dislike for that cladding, I happen to like it. I had a salesman at a Chevy dealer once tell me "think as the cladding as a parking lot protector, if a car door or a run-a-way shopping cart hits your truck, it wont do any damage". The guy is right, after 5 years, and many times in parking lots, no dents or scratches.
As far as wheels and tires go, mine is Z71 model, which came with 17 rims and 265R17 tires. I switched to the 2007 20" stock Avalanche/ Tahoe/ Suburban rims and tires.
The 17" and 20" wheels and tires measured out to be the same height, even though the 
20's do look taller.
When it comes to towing, its all about the gearing, my Yukon XL, with the same engine as my Avalanche, but with a trailering package, makes a huge difference when towing, although it does not get as good of mileage as the Avalanche. 
.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Don't know how any of you can say that's a hideously ugly car...

(Taken halfway up Hurricane Ridge in Washington.)


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## ChromedToast (Sep 19, 2006)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Believe it not, like it or not, some people do need a big truck or an SUV.


I believe it, I just laugh every time I see someone with a huge truck towing something that my 2.2L subie could tow. I could give a **** less where a cars from though, I care more about how well it works.

Back on topic:

I would go with the avalanche, seems more practical and who gives a rats ass how it looks.


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## kchate5 (Jan 20, 2007)

The new Silverado's and Avalanches appear to be great trucks. If you think you'll need the capabilities of a bigger truck or just have to have one, I say go for it and forget about gas mileage. However lots of smaller trucks will be able to handle a relatively small boat with ease. I've seen people pull out 4.5K lbs from the water with Jeep Wranglers. But IMO it would be scary to brake real hard with that much weight behind a tiny vehicle!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Okay, that's better*



bhsavery said:


> Don't know how any of you can say that's a hideously ugly car...
> 
> (Taken halfway up Hurricane Ridge in Washington.)


I haven't seen the newer Avalanches. The new one is downright atrractive. I stand corrected, sir.

I second what the other guy says about towing capacity. Personally, I think its silly to buy a truck big enough to tow huge loads when I would only do so once in a blue moon. I'd rather drive a much smaller car or truck, get better mileage and rent a truck for the rare occasions that I really need to tow something big. I would come out way ahead in using much less gas 99.9% of the time and dropping a couple hundred bucks on a rental maybe once a year if that. No need to haul around a 6000 pound vehicle just to haul my 200 pound ass to the grocery store.

But hey, to each his own.


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## dragonhead08 (Mar 19, 2007)

Neither!
I bought a 02 chevy Trailblazer that was nothing but problems. I spent over a grand in extended warranty repairs because of the $200 deductible GM charges. I can totally accept first year issues in a new car but everytime I brought the damn thing in the service guys would give the "thats normal" excuse. My father in law had to call the head mechanic each time. The head mechanic was really cool though. Each time he would just listen to my issue and he'd say "oh yea, I know what that is. Happens all the time" Still I dumped that car after 3 years and bought a first year Nissan Titan and have had ZERO problems. I've read that they have their own issues but I havnt experienced them. Also dont' get me started on my wifes 03 Yukon. Another pile thats been in the shop more times then I can remember. I can already feel the power steering rack going south after only 40K miles. My mother in-laws new Tahoe, big time rattletrap. Her excuse is every car she's owned has done that. (big coincidence all her cars have been GM) you can hear the body panels over uneven roads. Even my father in law who works for GM has been grumbling about their lousy quality, and thats like hell freezing over.


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## wesd (Apr 18, 2006)

pimpbot said:


> I haven't seen the newer Avalanches. The new one is downright atrractive. I stand corrected, sir.
> 
> I second what the other guy says about towing capacity. Personally, I think its silly to buy a truck big enough to tow huge loads when I would only do so once in a blue moon. I'd rather drive a much smaller car or truck, get better mileage and rent a truck for the rare occasions that I really need to tow something big. I would come out way ahead in using much less gas 99.9% of the time and dropping a couple hundred bucks on a rental maybe once a year if that. No need to haul around a 6000 pound vehicle just to haul my 200 pound ass to the grocery store.
> 
> But hey, to each his own.


Amen to that. I have a Silverado right now and I can say you are exactly right. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used it, but thankfully I had a smaller car that I drive 99% of the time. All these people that must own a pickup for an exception (towing boat once a year) will learn themselves. The trucks are nice, but horrible on the gas, wallet, and depreciation.

I plan to sell my truck in the fall and back to renting one when necessary. I'd sell it now but there is no market since the gas prices are high.


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## GoFaster2 (Jul 23, 2006)

dragonhead08 said:


> Neither!
> I bought a 02 chevy Trailblazer that was nothing but problems. I spent over a grand in extended warranty repairs because of the $200 deductible GM charges. I can totally accept first year issues in a new car but everytime I brought the damn thing in the service guys would give the "thats normal" excuse. My father in law had to call the head mechanic each time. The head mechanic was really cool though. Each time he would just listen to my issue and he'd say "oh yea, I know what that is. Happens all the time" Still I dumped that car after 3 years and bought a first year Nissan Titan and have had ZERO problems. I've read that they have their own issues but I havnt experienced them. Also dont' get me started on my wifes 03 Yukon. Another pile thats been in the shop more times then I can remember. I can already feel the power steering rack going south after only 40K miles. My mother in-laws new Tahoe, big time rattletrap. Her excuse is every car she's owned has done that. (big coincidence all her cars have been GM) you can hear the body panels over uneven roads. Even my father in law who works for GM has been grumbling about their lousy quality, and thats like hell freezing over.


You never buy a first of any brand, that's common sense. As for your Titan, don't pull anything super heavy, the frame will be bent if you do. See it in person.....


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## GoFaster2 (Jul 23, 2006)

Peej said:


> Sell the boat and don't buy anything that gets less than 30 mpg.  Haven't you heard? Driving anything that gets less is a ridiculous.:thumbsup:


Telling people what to buy is also ridiculous! I buy what I want to buy. You will never change that.


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## dragonhead08 (Mar 19, 2007)

GoFaster2 said:


> You never buy a first of any brand, that's common sense. As for your Titan, don't pull anything super heavy, the frame will be bent if you do. See it in person.....


02,03,04 Trailblazer,envoys all had the same problems. Just check all the boards. Yea I was a memebr of GM-trucks and we all the same problems. My wifes Yukon is an 03 so its not a first, that was a third year model. My Titan, 1st year model and guess what no problems. Bent frame? Well, since you saw it in person I guess thats a reliable source, kinda like a bigfoot sighting


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## GoFaster2 (Jul 23, 2006)

dragonhead08 said:


> . Bent frame? Well, since you saw it in person I guess thats a reliable source, kinda like a bigfoot sighting


Actually about 30 people have looked at it including a Nissan dealer, local engineering reps for Nissan and everyone at our shop. The dealer and local rep basically told the owner" Sorry about luck" there was nothing they could do for him.


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## GetDirty (Jul 12, 2006)

I'm a tech for GM/Cadillac and I suggest a Toyota.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

GoFaster2 said:


> Actually about 30 people have looked at it including a Nissan dealer, local engineering reps for Nissan and everyone at our shop. The dealer and local rep basically told the owner" Sorry about luck" there was nothing they could do for him.


Fully boxed frame. This is NOT common.


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## GoFaster2 (Jul 23, 2006)

GetDirty said:


> I'm a tech for GM/Cadillac and I suggest a Toyota.


And a Toyota tech would suggest a domestic brand, whats your point?


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## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Silverado (or GMC)..awesome
Avalanche..BARF


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## GetDirty (Jul 12, 2006)

GoFaster2 said:


> And a Toyota tech would suggest a domestic brand, whats your point?


Ugh. I was just showing that I have experience with the newer Chevy's and would choose a Toyota myself. Chill bra


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Its funny, I really do have a friend who has been a service tech for Toyota for 12 years, and he drives a Avalanche. I drive one and my brother drives one also, great vehicles, not the best mileage, but still great for the purpose we use it for.

I know I have covered this issue before, but I still dont know why people won't even look at or compare the domestic brands against the like of Toyota or Honda. I do realize that the domestics did have a period of quality issues, just as the foreign brands did earlier.
I have always owned domestics, just as about everyone in my family has, and we never had any issues that would not be out of the ordinary for any brand. Lets face it, all brands are of exceptional quality these days, it seems it comes down to style, features and price, but I believe it comes down to much more, like supporting our American brands and products that are of American sourced. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc., may have some models made over here, but check the sticker and you'll find that most parts are sourced from overseas. Also, the profits from those sold, I heard something like 90% goes overseas.
In a weird way,(and I know I'll catch flak for this), but I associate foreign goods with the illegal immigration problems we have here.
It seems when I talk to people about immigration, most people have problems with the illegals are taking work away from the citizens, why is that? is it because they can do a better job in that particular field? in some cases yes. Is it because they work for less money? yes.
So why is it people have a problem with illegal immigration, but go ahead and support a foreign brand over a domestic brand? its all about keeping our work force strong over here, right? It seems most people would like the illegal immigration issue go away, but think it is OK to support a foreign brand, which is hurting our work force just as much as the illegal immigrants are hurting our work force. I know there are other issues associated with immigration and does go way deeper than I mentioned. 
I know I'll hear people pipe in about capitalism and being able free to chose what they want, yada, yada yada, and I say, more power to those people, in America, you have have that choice. I'll now get off my soapbox, but I do urge people to buy American ( hopefully made here, but at least of an Americam company, such as SRAM, etc.) as much as they can, I dont see any problems that could cause, but I do see big problems if we solely or mostly relied on foreign goods...just think about oil for an example ! 

Anyway, I hope I did'nt piss too many people off, it is just what I believe, you all have opinions and minds of your own, you make the final decission.


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## sundowner (Mar 13, 2007)

The reason some people dont compare domestic with inports is that they been brainwash by the media into thinking that some inports product are superior. They dont like to tell you that vehicles like the Honda Ridgeline is actually a front wheeldrive minivan that looks like pickup, the Titan has a really weak rear end for starter , and that the new larger Toyota Tundra has a motor that will drops its valves at anytime. They also like to tell you that the inports make more vehicle in the US that the domestics which is not true.


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## kvojr (Apr 14, 2005)

I own a Toyota and it's my 1st import I've ever owned. Let me just say that I had lass rattles and squeeks in my '72 Dodge Challenger that I bought when it was 25 years old. This Toyota quality is pure crap and based on a 90's reputation. Now that they are making as many cars as the domestics, their quality control is just as bad as the domestics were in the 90's.


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## Melt (May 24, 2004)

my friends sister has a ridgeline and driving it from napa, ca to somewhere in idaho it got 15 - 17 mpg the whole trip. By comparison his 06 tacoma quad cab 4wd v6 automatic gets 21 or better on the freeway most of the time, he shoulda kept that truck but now hes driving a 07 civic si (the gas comes out to the same cause the si requires premium) 

another friend of mine has an 04 avy 2wd and loves it, gets over 20mpg most of the time on the highway 

ditto on what tacos cost .... when he told me the fully loaded tacoma was $31000 and he got it during chevy employee pricing i had to hold back from slapping him cause he probably coulda got a really sweet avy or silverado


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

sundowner said:


> The reason some people dont compare domestic with inports is that they been brainwash by the media into thinking that some inports product are superior. They dont like to tell you that vehicles like the Honda Ridgeline is actually a front wheeldrive minivan that looks like pickup, the Titan has a really weak rear end for starter , and that the new larger Toyota Tundra has a motor that will drops its valves at anytime. They also like to tell you that the inports make more vehicle in the US that the domestics which is not true.


It's obvious you are an idiot. "Inports?":crazy:


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## Melt (May 24, 2004)

i think the titan is awesome ... tundra has proven itsself

its just silverados / avy's are great trucks too


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## revrnd (Aug 13, 2004)

If you're looking @ a pick up, check out these locking covers:

http://www.foldacover.com/

A co-worker has 1 on his truck & my brother & I have them now. Quite pleased w/ them.


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## LiveToRide (Feb 5, 2007)

Here's a picture of my bike in the back seat of my extended cab silverado.


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## rickyaustin (May 19, 2007)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Why is there always someone who says" buy a Toyota Tundra or Tacoma", why? when you could have a more capable truck like the Avalanche or Silverado.*
> As far as buying something that gets 30 MPG, I'll be the first in line when they make one that can tow over 8000lbs+ and haul over 1200lbs+ and of course, the brand would have to either Chevy, GMC, Ford or Dodge....no foriegn brands for me.*
> 
> Believe it not, like it or not, some people do need a big truck or an SUV.


I always wonder about this... I don't get this mentality.

*If* Toyota can make a better truck than Chevy, why would someone buy a Chevy based on brand (or nationality) loyalty alone?

I don't know who makes the 'best' trucks, I imagine each brand has their own take on it, and each make a 'best' truck for someone... I just don't get why someone would be so close-minded in their choices.

Buying a company's product without even considering competitors' products give your favorite company ZERO incentive to improve. They will just enough to keep your business, that's it. Innovation will be done by the competing companies because they have to. In the end, they may even have a better truck... blasphemy, I know.

If you're pro-American, rock on. I just think it should be like that _after_ you actually give the competition an honest look-at. If you still are pro-American for your trucks, then buy one.

The close-minded mentality just doesn't help anybody including yourself.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Second that*



rickyaustin said:


> I always wonder about this... I don't get this mentality.
> 
> *If* Toyota can make a better truck than Chevy, why would someone buy a Chevy based on brand (or nationality) loyalty alone?
> 
> ...


I'm all for buying American whenever reasonable for the whole macro-economic thing. I figure I'm keeping the money here in this country supporting American jobs. It is just one of my factors when making a buying decision. That said, I refuse to drop my dough on crap, not that American cars are crap.

It has been my experience with American auto mfgs that the products are not up to what comes form Japan or Europe, either in style, durability and/or reliability. It may be just my impressions, and I could be wrong, which is why I always check them out before making a decision.

As they say, don't believe everything you think. Always good to challenge what you think you know.

Yeah, I buy VWs which have a less than good rep for reliability, but I have found that they are solidly built, appeal to my sense of style and feel great. I'm probably paying more in maintenance costs than I would if I owned a Toyota or Honda, but its worth it to me. In reality, I haven't had any real big issues. My last VWs have gone 310k miles, 250k miles and the current one is up to 205k miles all on the original engines. None of my cars have 'died' on me, I just sold them when they got too long in the tooth.

Oh, and I can believe that there are folks out there who actually 'need' an SUV. I don't think they are the majority of SUV drivers, tho. Maybe it's just my observation being in a more urban area. Not all, but most of the SUV owners I know bought one because they are 'cool'.

TCW... is that a reference to Tasty Coma Wife?


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## Tonedog (Nov 28, 2007)

> Not all, but most of the SUV owners I know bought one because they are 'cool'.


Didn't you just say you buy VWs because they appeal to your sense of style? What is the difference between buying something because you think it's cool and buying something because it appeals to your sense of style? Seems like different ways of saying exactly the same thing. "Because it's cool" just sounds worse.


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## deranged (May 2, 2006)

LiveToRide said:


> Here's a picture of my bike in the back seat of my extended cab silverado.


:thumbsup: I'm going to have to try that.

For the record I own a 2003 extended cab Silverado, and a 2002 Avalanche, there are pro's and con's to both. Just like there are to the little subies, ridgelines, etc that everyone that bags on trucks drive. To each there own.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*whelp....*



Tonedog said:


> Didn't you just say you buy VWs because they appeal to your sense of style? What is the difference between buying something because you think it's cool and buying something because it appeals to your sense of style? Seems like different ways of saying exactly the same thing. "Because it's cool" just sounds worse.


... I would say the difference is that I'm not hauling around 4000 extra pounds of vehicle I never will use just to feed my vanity.

To each his own and all. I think its a huge waste of resources.


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## Tonedog (Nov 28, 2007)

Well, pimpbot, you're lucky that you find VWs stylish, I find them effeminate. 
I wonder if you liked trucks, if you "thought they were cool/found their style appealing", if you would still not have one for the good of the planet. I doubt it. 
It's easy to be green when it happens to suit you. 

Anyway, the truth is I do care about the environment, I just honestly don't think me driving a truck has any significant effect on it. My whole country contributes to less than 1% of global greenhouse emmissions. There are billions of people on earth, even if everyone on earth was driving a vw it wouldn't make that much of a difference. That's still an insane drain on oil reserves and an insane amount of co2 being produced. 
The fact there are billions of people on earth is the problem. Trucks don't waste resources, people do. 
If a huge crowd is relentlessly stomping on someone's face does it really make a difference that they conscienciously chose to wear shoes instead of boots?


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## Killroy (Mar 9, 2006)

Tonedog said:


> Trucks don't waste resources, people do.


Most people drive trucks and SUV for image, not for utility. In this case, yes, trucks are a waste. People think that Trucks and SUVs are saver, but there not, just look at the deaths.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Zactly...*



Killroy said:


> Most people drive trucks and SUV for image, not for utility. In this case, yes, trucks are a waste. People think that Trucks and SUVs are saver, but there not, just look at the deaths.


... the point I was trying to make.

But yeah, do what you like. I'll try to do my part.

FWIW, I drive a 15,000 pound Ford F550 for work that gets 7 MPG diesel at best, not to mention I have to leave it idling for a lot of the time when I work to keep the hydraulics going. No way around this, although I run it as little as I can get away with, and I don't drive 70 on the freeway in it. I need the 35' boom and gear on the truck for my job. Good thing I don't need it every day. I actually sneak out of the office in my own car for some smaller local projects when I don't need to work in the air.

Yeah, you're right. Even if everybody drove just as many miles in a 30 MPG car, we would still have a big CO2 emission problem. It just wouldn't be as big. I'm just saying its a waste if you don't need it. We are all part of the problem... it's just a matter of how much. I'd rather be part of the solution. I think it's funny you think of a VW as effeminate. Are you basically saying you are not a real man unless you drive a truck? Mmmmm-kay! Personally, what makes me feel all manly is doing what I think is right, and not caring so much about what others think. Whew, boy! Do I feel butch! Maybe I'll skip the manny-petty this week! 

Let me also remind you of the context in which I wrote it: "Oh, and I can believe that there are folks out there who actually 'need' an SUV. I don't think they are the majority of SUV drivers, tho. Maybe it's just my observation being in a more urban area."

Like I said, maybe its just an impression. The majority of my friends who drive SUVs don't need the space, don't have kids, they never haul stuff, they don't need it for work and they never go off road or to the snow.


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## Neddy1982 (Jan 12, 2008)

I know this is not what you are looking for but I have a 08 F-150 FX2 and I love it. Some have a disdain for fords but I just cannot see what the problem is other than the old F.O.R.D. jokes people make. I got rid of my 02 F-150 for the new one and I keep a 72 Bronco in my garage. 
The FX2 package is basically a sporty version with allot of nice bells and whistles, quite quick too but smooth enough for my 14 mo/old kid to get a good rest in. It also does not sit so low that it takes away from what a truck is meant to do. 

I have driven nearly 3k miles in it so far and I am always being impressed. Maybe you might find the time to take a look at them. 

I love my Fords, never had trouble with them, and have always been a happy owner of them.


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## Melt (May 24, 2004)

my dads old 91 bronco with a 5.7l v8 has almost 300k on it now ... cant believe the guy who owns it now can still afford to drive it around at 11mpg but whatever


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