# Got some Filleted Bullmoose Bars in a pile yesterday



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

So my buddy calls me and says he is moving and if I can come over right away, he has some parts in a box for me. When I get there, these are on top. They say Mountainbikes (one word) and specialized. Did specialized make parts for the mountainbikes that TR was making and CK and GF were selling?


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

ScottyMTB said:


> So my buddy calls me and says he is moving and if I can come over right away, he has some parts in a box for me. When I get there, these are on top. They say Mountainbikes (one word) and specialized. Did specialized make parts for the mountainbikes that TR was making and CK and GF were selling?


Yes. They were made by Nitto. Specialized ordered the bars without asking what we thought about it, and in fact there was not much we could have done if we objected.

So we bought bars from them, and at least we got our name stamped on them.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Thanks for the great info Charlie. I wish I could take a pic of the name, but I have zero skills with the camera.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

About what year are we talking about here? Was there something wrong with the bar design, or did you just have something else in mind?


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

ScottyMTB said:


> About what year are we talking about here? Was there something wrong with the bar design, or did you just have something else in mind?


Either 1982 or 1983.

Nothing wrong with the design as far as I can tell. The "Bullmoose" design originated with Tom Ritchey's only ride down Repack in the spring of 1979. He borrowed Wende Cragg's modified clunker, and while he was riding the bars spun in the stem clamp.

Tom decided to make some bars that would prevent that from happening, so he designed a bar that eliminated a clamp to hold the bars onto the stem. While he was at it, he modified the way the bars attached to the steering tube. Since at first he had only planned to make three bikes, he soldered a sleeve into the steering tube and clamped the bars on that. That was pretty complicated, so later he changed to a standard wedge design, but it still looked homemade. The Nitto bars used off the shelf wedge clamps.

My 1983 Ritchey has the bars clamped onto the soldered-in sleeve, which Tom used on the more expensive bikes because it was lighter.

Most of the commercial "Bullmoose" bars were TIG-welded, so you have a really early set.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Thanks. Your memory is amazing. I have heard alot of the old school guys say stuff like "oh I can't really remember, ask so and so". You are like cracking open an encyclopedia.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

CK, nice info. I'd always wondered why Tom went with the clamp on stem instead of the quill. Interesting stuff.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> Either 1982 or 1983.
> 
> Nothing wrong with the design as far as I can tell. The "Bullmoose" design originated with Tom Ritchey's only ride down Repack in the spring of 1979. He borrowed Wende Cragg's modified clunker, and while he was riding the bars spun in the stem clamp.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think Specialized started to use the Bullmoose bars in 83 or 84 since the first year had the "golf club" stem.

Ive got some of those fillet-brazed, MountainBikes-stamped Nitto bars on my 84 Commando which is in Klunkerz Ive heard. 

I think the prettiest bars are the nickel-plated fillet brazed bars made by Tom.

Looking at the catalogs on oldmountainbikes.com, it looks like all the 81 Ritcheys use a quill and then in 82 the clamp on style starts. So, Tom made 3 of the clamp on style early and then went back to the quill for a year or two? The clamp on makes lots more sense to me except for the fact that you cant raise or lower your bars like you can with a quill.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Looking at the catalogs on oldmountainbikes.com, it looks like all the 81 Ritcheys use a quill and then in 82 the clamp on style starts. So, Tom made 3 of the clamp on style early and then went back to the quill for a year or two? The clamp on makes lots more sense to me except for the fact that you cant raise or lower your bars like you can with a quill.


My '81 and '83 both have the clamp on stem.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> My '81 and '83 both have the clamp on stem.


Thats weird. My 81 Everest (top of the line then) had a fb quill as do the others in the catalog. Is there something that made it an 81? As you know theres not much to go on... The 82s are easy to identify though.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Thats weird. My 81 Everest (top of the line then) had a fb quill as do the others in the catalog. Is there something that made it an 81? As you know theres not much to go on... The 82s are easy to identify though.


Tom made my bike specifically for me, and I think he pulled out all the stops.

These bikes were made one at a time, and it's hard to say there was a "standard" design. Gary and I sold whatever Tom wanted to make, and Tom changed his mind now and then.

It didn't matter what Tom made, because everything sold as soon as it was put together.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> The clamp on makes lots more sense to me except for the fact that you cant raise or lower your bars like you can with a quill.


The double-wedge quill I have on my bars on my Team Comp can't be raised/lowered much if at all, IIRC.

I like the brazed in stub concept. Ibis was another who did that on a lot of customs. I had it done on my SS custom as well.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ssmike said:


> The double-wedge quill I have on my bars on my Team Comp can't be raised/lowered much if at all, IIRC.
> 
> I like the brazed in stub concept. Ibis was another who did that on a lot of customs. I had it done on my SS custom as well.


I think those have a little bit of room to slide up but not much like you say. Back then they were sized like road bikes so there probably wasnt much of a need to come up. I like the brazed in sleeve as well. The conical wedge set up that took place across the Golden Gate was also a neat one in that it required no external clamp bolt.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> Tom made my bike specifically for me, and I think he pulled out all the stops.
> 
> These bikes were made one at a time, and it's hard to say there was a "standard" design. Gary and I sold whatever Tom wanted to make, and Tom changed his mind now and then.
> 
> It didn't matter what Tom made, because everything sold as soon as it was put together.


True 

All this analyzation on our part and the fact is these handmade bikes definitely had some random changes.

I think on yours though, by 83 or 84, and especially on an Annapurna, they had the clamp on stem. Here's mine (looks a little like yours):


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## 82Sidewinder (Jun 28, 2006)

Fillet-brazed said:


> True
> 
> All this analyzation on our part and the fact is these handmade bikes definitely had some random changes.
> 
> I think on yours though, by 83 or 84, and especially on an Annapurna, they had the clamp on stem. Here's mine (looks a little like yours):


Nice bike Fillet Brazed! My '82/83 Annapurna? also has the clamp-on bars. Was there originally a "plug" that went into the center part of the clamp? Mine came with what looks like a chrome handlebar plug, but I'm not sure if it's correct or not.

I'm not sure if my bike is an Annapurna, since the model name was not used in the '82 & '83 catalogs, but it definitely has the same "fake" lugs that are found on that model.

CK, my bike has the Ritchey/Mountain Bikes decals. Were all Ritcheys with these decals assembled and sold by you and GF?

Craig


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

82Sidewinder said:


> Nice bike Fillet Brazed! My '82/83 Annapurna? also has the clamp-on bars. Was there originally a "plug" that went into the center part of the clamp? Mine came with what looks like a chrome handlebar plug, but I'm not sure if it's correct or not.
> 
> I'm not sure if my bike is an Annapurna, since the model name was not used in the '82 & '83 catalogs, but it definitely has the same "fake" lugs that are found on that model.
> 
> ...


My guess is the name came later (after the split) but CK would probably know.

As for the bar plug there on the steerer tube, Im not sure. Mine has a little handmade wood piece that goes in there but coincidentally fell out on that ride where I took those shots. On my way out of there I found it sitting in the middle of the trail. 

Your decals are from 1982 (or atleast show up in the 82 catalog). All other years show the traditional style.


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## 82Sidewinder (Jun 28, 2006)

Fillet-brazed said:


> My guess is the name came later (after the split) but CK would probably know.
> 
> As for the bar plug there on the steerer tube, Im not sure. Mine has a little handmade wood piece that goes in there but coincidentally fell out on that ride where I took those shots. On my way out of there I found it sitting in the middle of the trail.
> 
> Your decals are from 1982 (or atleast show up in the 82 catalog). All other years show the traditional style.


Now that you mention it, I remember the person I bought my Annapurna from mentioning something about a wooden plug that had been misplaced. (This was almost 8 years ago now) Glad to hear that you found yours.

I always thought my bike was an '82, since it has earlier parts like TA cranks, a Duopar derailleur, but it also has the later Deore XT brakes and a 7-speed Suntour freewheel, which were both available in the '83 catalog. I just wish the original owner had chosen a better color than dark brown root beer. I like the color of your Annapurna much better.

Craig


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Both of mine have the metal plug that looks like a bar end plug. You can kind of see if here:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Both of mine have the metal plug that looks like a bar end plug. You can kind of see if here:


Oh yeah, I think I see it right by that one dark spot.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

82Sidewinder said:


> Nice bike Fillet Brazed! My '82/83 Annapurna? also has the clamp-on bars. Was there originally a "plug" that went into the center part of the clamp? Mine came with what looks like a chrome handlebar plug, but I'm not sure if it's correct or not.
> 
> CK, my bike has the Ritchey/Mountain Bikes decals. Were all Ritcheys with these decals assembled and sold by you and GF?


I had called my own bike an "Everest," but when I did in front of Tom he corrected me and called it an Annapurna. The difference was the fake lugs on the Annapurna, while the Everest was a perfectly polished lugless frame. What we called a "B" frame had the smaller, less polished joints, and usually a Tange fork.

My own bike has a lignum vitae plug in the steerer, made for me by a local craftsman, with a rubber O-ring to seal it against moisture.

Those decals could have appeared on the bike any time up until about January 1984. I left the company around June, 1983.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

I just took a look at some photos of Gary's first Ritchey, and he didn't use Bullmoose bars on it, he used a standard stem and flat aluminum bars. I presume Tom used Bullmoose on the one he made for himself, and I don't remember what was on the third original bike, which Gary sold to a friend of ours name James MacWay and which was later stolen.

The first time I met Tom, he had his shop in the garage of his house in the flats of Palo Alto, and Gary and I were already in the process of starting to assemble and sell his second production run of nine bikes. While he conversed with Gary and me, he turned one of those steerer plugs out of a piece of aluminum bar stock, so by then he was using the clamp-on Bullmoose design. It took him about two minutes to make this thing, and he kept up the conversation while he did it. He didn't measure anything, and it fit perfectly.

Here's Gary's first bike, with off-the-shelf bars.


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## 82Sidewinder (Jun 28, 2006)

Thanks for the info CK! You're an encyclopedia of info about the early days.:thumbsup: 


Craig


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

All of Tom's second run of nine bikes had clamp-on Bullmoose bars. The name, by the way, came from John Finley Scott, who called his own off-road creations "Woodsie bikes.". 

Here is a photo of one of those bikes, taken in the dining room of the house I rented at 1320 San Anselmo Avenue. We built the bikes there before we rented the garage space down the street at 1501. This was scanned from a contact print from Gary's Hasselblad camera, so that's the limit of the quality.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> All of Tom's second run of nine bikes had clamp-on Bullmoose bars. The name, by the way, came from John Finley Scott, who called his own off-road creations "Woodsie bikes.".
> 
> Here is a photo of one of those bikes, taken in the dining room of the house I rented at 1320 San Anselmo Avenue. We built the bikes there before we rented the garage space down the street at 1501. This was scanned from a contact print from Gary's Hasselblad camera, so that's the limit of the quality.


Very cool, CK. The board is lucky to have you on here and sharing these priceless pics and info.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Very cool, CK. The board is lucky to have you on here and sharing these priceless pics and info.


No doubt


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## poppy (Jan 24, 2006)

Great reading here.
CK so cool to have you giving some real first hand history class :thumbsup:


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