# Cygolite Pace 310 LED upgrade



## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Well I figured after messing around with 'production' lights i'd look at cranking up what i have. I don't have a means of milling a housing so I started searching around for light mods.

Came across some info on Mitycross and TridenX but I figured i'd try it on the Pace 310 first. I cracked the case to see what i'm starting with. Found two of the SEOUL 2LED-N all nice and tucked in there.

Now i started reading on 'what' to replace and i started getting a little of the infomation overload

If this works then i'd like to crank up the rest of my lights. The Pace is listed as having 310, my Mitycross is listed at 400, and the TridenX is listed at 600. As usual these ended up not being enough - but i do like the housing and the beam pattern that Cygolite uses.

So what i'm hoping to get out of all this?

Brighter LED
More efficient LED
More run time? Would be nice:thumbsup:

Right now i'm thinking the XPG R5 on 20mm starts 'should' fit right in. 
These LEDs

Here's a crappy cell phone pic.

Thanks for looking and any help:thumbsup:

Ed


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

I think the XML would be slightly more efficient than the XPG, and would possibly match the optics better.
I could be wrong here, but it is something to look into.
XML are not too much more $$ too.
Lower Voltage Forward, slightly more lumens too.
I would go with whichever one fits the optics better.
I'm sure somebody will chime in on that.


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

You talking one like this?

XML LINK

The current ones that are in there are 20mm so in theory these should be 'drop in'....

Least that is what i'm trying for on this go around :thumbsup:

Thanks,
Ed


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

I wouldn't go for the one from DX.
Read the posts about the stock status on the DX page.
I ordered some of those, and they didn't even process the order.
After about a month, I canceled the order.

It looks like you are in the US.
I would get them from Led Supply or Cutter.
Cutter if you have other things you need to order, or Led Supply if all you need is 2 stars.

T6 bin from Led Supply
http://ledsupply.com/creexml-w280.php

T5 bin from cutter
http://cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1026

T6 bin from cutter
http://cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1027

T6 bin is a tad bit more $$, but is also more efficient with more lumens per watt.

The hardest part about doing mods like this is getting an LED to match the optics that are in the lighthead, as most optics are designed to work with a specific LED.
The XPG has a much smaller dome than the SEOUL does, so it may not be a good match for the optics that come with the Pace 310.
The XML has a much bigger dome than the XPG, potentially making it a better match to the optics that you have.
I don't have any SEOUL Led boards around here to measure for you, but I think the XML is going to be closer in diameter.
Now you'll just have to worry about the dome height.

Hopefully, somebody will chime in that has experience with the older SEOUL Led, and tell you if I am talking out my @$$ or not.

Do some research before you order anything using my advice, as I have only been doing the LED thing for a short time now, and only have my hands on some of the newer stuff, and no experience with what is now becoming older technology.

It theory it should work though.
Do a forum search in the DIY section for Cygolite. Some people have successfully modded them.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

As a recent novice, I will throw in two cent's worth. 

Research: Cutter has nice links to data sheets for the XM-L and others when you look up the LED. The dimensions are further in these publications. You have the Seoul P4? N Bin to measure. If the dome height and width are close, check how much room you have in the bottom of the optic to fit the dome into. 

Room without squashing the dome isn't the only thing, though. Focus plays a big role. Looks like the optic is in the bezel and that means you can shim the bezel and lens closer or farther from the LEDs and that can help you fine tune the optics, provided you don't need to get inside squashing distance. So you can go try and error until you have as good as they can do. If you can find data sheets for the Seoul LED, the Mfr's claimed output will likely be before lens losses, so you can guesstimate the current the driver puts out at max.. From that, you can use the CREE sheet to guesstimate output of the XM-Ls (-10-15% for the optic).

Of course anyone who has already invented this wheel would be a more help, but I know that just a little bit can be big at this stage in your learning curve. Looks can be deceiving, but this seems like it is definitely worth a shot.

Saving decent lights from landfill is a laudable endeavor.:thumbsup:


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

I went and ordered up a couple new LED's - looks like they have shipped already. After they get here i'll do a before beamshot and the dig in and see how the new one's do.

Thanks,
Ed


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

What did you order Ed?


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Ordered up the XML's to see how they do. If not in this then i'll start on making a new DIY light 

Ed


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Though i've been reading a bit here and there and I think i have the bug to build up a 2000 or so lumen bar light  

I've got a lot to figure out if i'm going to try and get that type of setup.

Now back to my 'upgrade'..... My wonder is what this little Pace 310 is putting to the led? Would be nice to have an idea what I could possibly get with the new led in there compared to the stock one. Since i'm not of an electronics guy this should be interesting  

Ed


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

NitroRC Ed said:


> Though i've been reading a bit here and there and I think i have the bug to build up a 2000 or so lumen bar light
> 
> I've got a lot to figure out if i'm going to try and get that type of setup.
> 
> ...


Do you know how to measure the current?


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Ed,
my buddy just hooked me up with a Pace 295, I'm pretty sure it is basically the same light as the 310.
I am planning on doing some foolijng around with it.
I have a bunch of XML's, XPG's and some XPE's as well.
If I have any success I will post back here with my results. Actually, I will post either way, good or bad.

On a side note, a 2000 lumen bar light is a good thing.......= )
I just finished building up my bar light that is pretty close to 2000 lumens.
i used 2 3up XPG boards with carlco narrow optics and a maxflex running at 1000mAh.
The thing is amazing.
It makes my dual XPG helmet light running at 1500 mAh seem like a keychain light.


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Right on on the light score! I'm waiting for my stuff in the mail still. And tonight i was going to do a beamshot pic but I think one of my kids 'borrowed' the 310. I got pics of everything else to compare with but i'll have to dig around for my missing 310  

Here are the lights i'm working with right now - i've got a few but i end up loaning some out on rides. But i'm ready to upgrade and improve :thumbsup: 

Ed


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

I notice i was in a bit of a hurry when taking the photos - i didnt' quite get them all pointed towards the same location.

Ed


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Ok - went out and took the 310 apart - yeah it just 'happen' to show up on the table today  

Wasn't able to get a current reading so i bailed on that for now but at least got some good internal pics. Might try to look up the board and see if there is any info on it.

Next i'm going to dig into the 400 and see if the parts are the same :thumbsup: 

On to the pictures,
Ed


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Tore into the 400 and found something interesting.... The guts are all the same except for a 'different' LED.

Will have to see what these are and when the new ones for the 310 show up i'll compare - maybe toss in a set of the XM-L and see what happens.


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Pulled my TridenX open as well. Interesting is that they used the same LED's as what's in the Pace 310. So this one probably will be in need of an upgrade as well.

Ed


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Looks like the 400 has pair of XPG's in its guts and the others are powerd with P4's


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

I just took apart my pace 295 and it looks just like the 310.
Same leds, same optics and everything.
The XML dome is a great fit, but the star may need to be raised up a few mm from the mounting plate.
I guess I should have taken some measurements while I had it apart, but couldn't remember where I last had my calipers.
If you look at the dome on the seoul boards, it is raised up on a plastic plate.
The XML will need to be raised up a little bit to match that height. About the thickness of a star board.
Once you get the XML boards in, you'll see what I'm talking about.
I'm charging the battery for the 295 right now.
If I can get a good portion of a charge in tonight before bed I can take a beamshot, then swap in the XML's and do a comparison.
Prolly won't have enough time though....will most likely have to wait till tomorrow after work.
Cygolite sure does get slap happy with the thermal paste huh?
Guess it's not a bad thing.


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

savageman - you had a chance to mess with your light yet? My parts showed up but i'm not able to do anything till tomorrow night. I'll have to get a beamshot still of the 300 before the swap.

I called up Cygolite to see if they would give me any info on the board that is in there - no luck there. I was trying to get numbers from them for the outputs so i could do a 'paper' comparison from the old LED to the new ones.

Guess i'll see tomorrow night how it all goes :thumbsup: 

Ed


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Can't you just take a reading?


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Have to put the multimeter in the line so the current goes through it - least that is what i have been reading online..... I'm probably being more careful than i need to but i'm new at messing with this stuff so taking it easy.

I have not had a chance to mess with the light yet and start pulling apart. Thought I'd just call them up and see if they would part with the info but didn't have any luck with that. Oh well  

Ed


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

You are correct, just unsolder the connection on one side and connect your meter in the middle, make sure you have it on the correct setting. They might not even know to be honest, even if they did, what they say and what you get is a different matter ;-)


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Figured i'm might give it a shot whem i'm ready to tear into it. Just gotta get time


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

NitroRC Ed said:


> savageman - you had a chance to mess with your light yet? My parts showed up but i'm not able to do anything till tomorrow night. I'll have to get a beamshot still of the 300 before the swap.


I haven't had a chance yet.
Mainly holding out so I can get beamshots before and after.
The swap should be pretty easy and fast.....it's the whole beamshot thing holding me up.
I really want to get beamshots so everybody can see the results, and I'm being stubborn about it.......= )


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Well the game plan tonight is i'll try to get a beamshot before tearing into the 310. Depends if its raining out or not - i'd rather not drag the camera out if it is


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

*Measure voltage?*

Couldn't you just take a voltage reading across the LED? Since you know the LED, you could find the drive current from the datasheet, or at least a good approximation. That way you don't have to unsolder anything, just check the voltage when the light is powered on.


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

bikeny said:


> Couldn't you just take a voltage reading across the LED? Since you know the LED, you could find the drive current from the datasheet, or at least a good approximation. That way you don't have to unsolder anything, just check the voltage when the light is powered on.


He's tearing that light apart anyway, so why have approximate value, when you can measure the exact one, before switching the leds?


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Raining pretty hard so siad heck with it and went for it  

So - pulled the negitive wire off and connected the multimeter in line and this is what i got.

High: 530mA
Medium: 390mA
Low: 103mA

Put in the new LED's got them all connected. Like what was mentioned earlier i'll need to do some spacing work with the lens. The new LED's are not near as tall. 

Light fires up but won't be able to finish it till tomorrow night and if there is a break in the rain i'll go out and do a beamshot comparison with the modified 310 and a 400.

Ed


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Are you thinking of swapping out the driver? 530mA might bit a bit disappointing?


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

XM-L chart says 75% of reference output for 500 mA (reference is 280 lumens for T6 @ 700 mA). Two = 2 * 0.75 *280 to 302, say 290 average = about 435 lumens for the pair. Twenty percent increases are noticebale but not earth shattering. Runtimes should be a LOT better. Possible better beam shape too. 

If a sense resistor swap on the driver board would up the current, that would be nice. Otherwise you'd need a driver replacement to get more current.


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## jamaicabraden (Mar 10, 2011)

nice job dude! to be honest im not so very technical person but when it comes to led lighting technical stuffs i am more interested.thanks for sharing!

_____________
Hinkley Lighting


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Thanks for the info guys. My next step is going to be messing with the factory lens and see if i can get the beam to look any better. There is quite a difference in the LED height from the XML (lower) to the SEOUL (higher) so i'll mess with that a bit.

If what you are calculating is correct then going from what Cygolite says is 310 to the calc'ed out 435 isn't to bad by just changing the LED. 

I'm wondering about that resistor swap now also. Wouldn't mind getting another 100-200 higher on the current :thumbsup: 

If this all goes well i'll dig into the TridenX next but want to get this one working well first. Well that and i ordered up some new stuff for another new build thanks to some help from savagemann  

Ed


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Good stuff Ed.
Changing out the sense resistor is only going to safely up the current if all the other components on the board can handle the jump.
Otherwise they could get too hot and release the magic blue smoke....= )
I would just start with getting the XML's height up to where they need to be, and see how it goes from there.
There are a couple ways you could shim the XML's up to the proper height.
I would personally make a plate that fits underneath them, and use Arctic allumina to fix the plate to the mount, then the star to the plate.
You could make the plate out of aluminum or copper. Aluminum will be lighter and cheaper.
I have some time before work today, so I'll take some measurements as I found my calipers that were hiding from me.
On a side note,
It looks like CPF Forum is back up and running.......wooohooo


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Had a couple minutes last night to mess with the lens placement. I removed the holder and just put the lens right up against the led. The beam was MUCH better. I did check that there was clearance in the end of the lens so the led wasn't going to hit. Now just have to do a little tweak so they stay in place and get a beamshot.

I'm still wondering if there is something that can be changed to get a little more current to the led. Just noticed i don't have a internal shot of the 400 to compare with the 310. At first glance the looked the same.....

EDIT: found a pic of the 400 internals. The board in the 310 and the 400 are the same so it looks like the only difference is the LED.

Meanwhile i'm waiting for more parts to show up for my new build - thanks savagemann for the info:thumbsup: 

Ed


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## khskenny (Sep 29, 2009)

Any updates you'd like to share? I'm very interested in this project. I would love to put some XMLs in a mitycross 350. Your adventures so far look very promising!


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Was able to mess with it a little this weekend. Got a 'spacer' made to sit under the led so it'll be closer to the lens. Had to hit up the hardware store for some longer screws.

Now just gotta get a chance for a beamshot to see how it loooks. After that i'll get a full charge on it and see how long it'll run on high - wondering if it gained me any run time.

Ed


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Sorry I haven't chimed in on the mods to my pace 295 recently.
What I have done is ordered some blank stars to use as spacers for underneath the leds.
Hopefully this will work.
I figured I'd need to sand off the board part of the star to expose the bare aluminum, then it should raise the led to about the perfect height.
I realize this could be done pretty easily by fashioning some spacers out of copper sheet or aluminum sheet, but right now I don't have time to tinker with stuff like that.
So it'll probably be a month before I see my DX order, so it'll have to wait till then.
Let us know how it progresses ED. I'll do the same.
What kind of screws did you get? Coarse threaded? 
I forget what the screws look like that hold the stars down.
Any measurement of how high the led needed to be lifted up to meet the optic?


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

I got lucky and found some copper washers at the parts store - just had to do a little bit of grinding to get them to fit. I'll check the package of new screws i got to see what they were. With the washer in there is got the led up close to the lens and so far 'seems' like the beam is better. I'll try to get out in the next day or so and put it up next to the current 400 one i have and get some beamshots.

Ed


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## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

BrianMc said:


> Runtimes should be a LOT better.


Just a quickie Brian - why would there be any increase in runtime? If the drive currents are the same then the runtime will be the same. Unless of course lower light settings are used.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

mfj197 said:


> Just a quickie Brian - why would there be any increase in runtime? If the drive currents are the same then the runtime will be the same. Unless of course lower light settings are used.


Run times will be longer because the XM-L is more efficient. It will have a lower forward voltage at the same current setting, thus increasing run time.


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## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

bikeny said:


> Run times will be longer because the XM-L is more efficient. It will have a lower forward voltage at the same current setting, thus increasing run time.


Ah I see, so it's a buck or boost driver then. I'd assumed it was linear - but I do see a telltale inductor there.


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

OK, so my blank stars arrived from DX today.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I was planning on using the blank stars with the pcb material sanded off as spacers to raise up the XML to the correct height to mate with the stock optics.

My curiosity got the better of the scientist in me and I did the mod without taking any before beamshots.

The blank star is the perfect spacer for this application.

I sanded off the pcb material and AAA'd the star down.
Then AAA'd the XML to the star.

I could have used some thermal grease but I was pretty sure this would work good so I glued them down.

Soldered everything in place and assembled the light.

Powered it on and WOW. This thing is WAY brighter with a tad bit more flood.

I took some crappy cell phone pics that I can upload if anybody wants to see them.

All in all, I feel it is well worth it if you have a pace 295 or 310, and don't want to deal with building a light from scratch.
I wouldn't go out and buy one with intentions to mod it though.

Any progress Ed?


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Yeah i'm kicking myself for not getting a before beamshot  

Depending on when we get back today and if the weather holds out i'm going to try to get a beamshot of the modified 310 next to a 400 and a 600 so see how it compares.

Crossing my fingers that the rain stays away tonight :thumbsup: 

Ed


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## ZipMTB (Jan 29, 2004)

*Updates?*

Ed and Savagemann:

Any updates? I found a 295 on clearance and immediately thought of modding it. Saw this thread and would love to see current beam shots and any experience with runtimes.

Did the new LEDs give you any more runtime?

Thanks
Zip


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Sorry - i've been slacking on this project - so many things going on at one time  

The way things are looking I should have some time to setup the light mount and tripod with the camera while i'm hanging out during a garage sale on Saturday :thumbsup: I'm doing a little shop/garage clearing out.

So on that note i'd like to say i'll have some beam shots this weekend sometime. I may be able to get the light charged up and running in front of a little fan as well on Saturday to see if it has any change in overall run time on high.

By the 'looks' of it the beam seems to be brighter but a comparison shot of it next to a stock 400 will be the best test I can do at this point. After this i'm on to building some new lights :thumbsup: 

Ed


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## ZipMTB (Jan 29, 2004)

Two questions regardng this light:

1) Was the upgrade successful?

2) anyone try making a home brew spare battery? Since it is just a 3.8V (not sure why they quote 3.8v) but I hooked up a 2P 18650 with the correct connector and polarity and got nothing out of the light. From the looks of the internals of this light, it seems that all electronics are in the light head. Can anyone think of why a simple 2P 18650 battery pack would not work.

Thanks
Zip


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I had the same issue. I was actually just seeing for grins if it would work since my new batteries were bought for my new XML light. But I had an adapter to fit the cygolite and nothing....just like you said. Can the protection circuit on the batteries be limiting the output (milliamps) on the low end to be above the amps necessary for the cygolite, and the cygolite protection acting to protect the light? 
I'm sure I didn't word that right, but hopefully you will know what I mean.
Andy


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

does the adapter have a good connection? I had an issue with a standard 5.5mm jack and a Magicshine plug - they fit together nicely but didn't actually connect inside.

Other than that, you'll need to disassemble the original battery to see if there's anything funky in there. I know (from frustrating experience) that some lights have a 3rd wire to check for broken connections between the battery and light head - if your battery (or light head in my case) aren't hooked up the same, the driver thinks there's a break and shuts off/ won't fire up the light. Worth checking though.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

savagemann said:


> OK, so my blank stars arrived from DX today.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I was planning on using the blank stars with the pcb material sanded off as spacers to raise up the XML to the correct height to mate with the stock optics.
> 
> ...


I got hold of my friend's Triden-X. It seems like an OK light, but is piss-weak compared with my single XM-L sled lights.
I'd like to pimp his up with XM-Ls, but it looks like it's not a straight swap as I need to get some spacers in there.

Any good links to spacers that will work on an XM-L?

Didn't someone else mod a Cygolite Triden-x (Troutie?) here on the forum too?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

savagemann said:


> OK, so my blank stars arrived from DX today.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I was planning on using the blank stars with the pcb material sanded off as spacers to raise up the XML to the correct height to mate with the stock optics.
> 
> Any progress Ed?


Further thought-
Do you think you could de-solder the Seoul LED from the 20mm star, then attach an XM-L or XP-G on a 14mm or 16mm round star on top of the now-blank 20mm star to act as the spacer?


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Further thought-
> Do you think you could de-solder the Seoul LED from the 20mm star, then attach an XM-L or XP-G on a 14mm or 16mm round star on top of the now-blank 20mm star to act as the spacer?


This would probably work fine,but i would remove the star,desolder, sand flat then use it as a spacer. 
My concern would be that any imperfection left behind from desoldering would effect the thermal path and the pcb material won't conduct the heat as well unless it is sanded off.
The mod works pretty good but i don't have any trail time on mine yet. I can say there was a definite boost in output using the xml.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

savagemann said:


> This would probably work fine,but i would remove the star,desolder, sand flat then use it as a spacer.
> My concern would be that any imperfection left behind from desoldering would effect the thermal path and the pcb material won't conduct the heat as well unless it is sanded off.
> The mod works pretty good but i don't have any trail time on mine yet. I can say there was a definite boost in output using the xml.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


Thanks, Sav.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

OK, if I had the choice to change the old LEDs in the Triden-x, would you go with XP-G or XM-L?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

at that kind of current you might as well use XP-Gs - output will be similar, runtime might be a bit less, but will be a cheaper mod. Plus you'll be able to get better throw out of the XP-Gs than you would the XM-Ls.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

savagemann said:


> This would probably work fine,but i would remove the star,desolder, sand flat then use it as a spacer.
> My concern would be that any imperfection left behind from desoldering would effect the thermal path and the pcb material won't conduct the heat as well unless it is sanded off.
> The mod works pretty good but i don't have any trail time on mine yet. I can say there was a definite boost in output using the xml.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


OK, after almost a month the XP-Gs arrived. Time to pimp Bender's Triden-x.

I discovered the old Seoul LEDs are not coming off the stars. I had to saw and file them down, to create a flat blank star. 
It would probably have been easier to fab up new blank stars... but it all worked out.

I got the XP-Gs on 16mm round bases, and bonded them to the old stars with thermal tape, added more thermal grease and re-screwed the stars and soldered everything up.
It's much brighter than it was, so he'll be happy.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

One thing I noticed- the Niterider battery had 4 wires in the cable.
Black, white, blue and I forget the 4th.
Presumably only 2 are carrying main current, the other 2 are some sort of monitor.
Anybody know what's what there?

I'll probably make Bender up a 7.2v Li-Ion pack anyway, as this pack was old and suspect.


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

I'd guess that black and white are + and - and the other two are ment for balancing and thermal control.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

My guess too, but the wire gauge is pretty fine on each wire.


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## alanthealan (Jan 22, 2010)

Just got a pace 310 for cheap, and ran across this thread. I have already ordered the XML emitters and supplies! I have never messed with LEDs, so this is exciting. I hope to end up with a nice light for less than $100! Thanks for the info.


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