# Winter Riding Shoes



## scsamoyan (Jan 26, 2009)

looking at shimano mw-80 and northwave celsius,any opinions?


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

a shoe is still a shoe... in my experience neoprene overshoes are a lot better than winter shoes.


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## CHSAD (Jan 18, 2004)

Lakes.


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## BIGfatED (Apr 26, 2005)

wrong forum......


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Are they 29 incher riding shoes?*

I won't be surprised to those marketed soon along with the 29 incher specific cranks.


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## scsamoyan (Jan 26, 2009)

until the neoprene tears,then your wet.they tear easily,i go through at least 2 pair every year.the zippers dont last long either.


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## creationrebel (Sep 21, 2004)

The Sidi is the bomb!

Diablo GTX

See: http://www.veltecsportsusa.com/default.aspx?tabid=204&itemno=910000


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## scsamoyan (Jan 26, 2009)

BIGfatED said:


> wrong forum......


people who ride 29ers dont wear winter shoes?


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

Lake MXZ302 for the ultimate in winter shoes. The Shimano shoe is a good cold fall/spring shoe. I just bought a pair, but I still have Lakes for real winter. Buy the biggest size you can for the Lakes. Fill the space with a boot liner or just an extra sock depending on how big your feet are. Maybe even get the wide version as well.


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## scsamoyan (Jan 26, 2009)

thanks schmucker,the shimano sole is not very stiff, any problems with that?


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## Traktor (Oct 18, 2004)

winter shoes are great. They are all probably good. Get them a few sizes too big and wear thick socks. I have the northwave and they are very nice. I hate the booties, totally a PITA.


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## Tasselhof (Nov 18, 2008)

scsamoyan said:


> looking at shimano mw-80 and northwave celsius,any opinions?


Celsius is fall/spring shoes, not winter. -3...+7 C deg, i think.

Lake is answer


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## 20.100 FR (Jan 13, 2004)

specialized defroster


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## hellocook (Nov 5, 2006)

shimanos are great. 

i used mine 3-5 times for 3 winters, the only problem is that they have recently started shinking, but after about 300 rides in mostly muddy conditions i guess it is time to get new ones (at least my wife says so based on how they smell) ...

and for what it is worth, in europe they are regularly winning the tests in biking magazins.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

everyone I know up here that runs store bought winter clipless, runs Lakes. Myself included. They work for me down into single digits comfortably.


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

+1 for specialized defroster. I've used covers and booties for years, can't compare to a real pair of shoes. I refuse to ride with boots and flats or toe clips. For the first winter last year my toes were warm and dry even in snow and icewater, didn't need toe warmers.


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## Johnny K (Mar 14, 2005)

How cold have you been down to in the Defrosters? Also, did you size up from normal Spec. shoes?


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## tkrutis (Oct 12, 2005)

Lake winter shoes,they are the best


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## scsamoyan (Jan 26, 2009)

hellocook said:


> shimanos are great.
> 
> i used mine 3-5 times for 3 winters, the only problem is that they have recently started shinking, but after about 300 rides in mostly muddy conditions i guess it is time to get new ones (at least my wife says so based on how they smell) ...
> 
> and for what it is worth, in europe they are regularly winning the tests in biking magazins.


i have put the shimano mw-80 on and its not the stiffest shoe.any issues with that.


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## Swami Scott (Jan 25, 2004)

I have both the Lakes and the Defrosters for my easily chilled feet. The Defrosters are only good for me into the 40's. I love them on cool wet fall/early winter mornings, dry warm feet. When it get's into the 20's and 30's, the Lakes rule. I'm on my second set, the newest having the Boa system which I like. I've used booties and either rip them, break the zips or curse then for not being as convenient as a winter shoe.


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## funkydrum (Mar 10, 2007)

Another vote for Lakes. Rode in 3 deg last winter and stayed warm for almost 3 hrs...


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## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

I am using Gearneaus 0 degree ergos plenty warm when it coes to water proof they are good for a while (over an hour) but at some point if it is really wet out your feet get wet.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I've got Answer Kashmir's no complaints. But when they finally wear out I'm going to try the Lakes.


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## markf (Jan 17, 2007)

pearl izumi for me. worked great even sub zero F for a few hours. not the widest things ever, but not a bad fit. my problem is that i've got sz 47 shoes and PI only comes up to 48. lakes and sidi come 50. the defroster is a great waterproof shoe. terrible much below freezing. clearly designed for the california winter and not a real winter. the garneu shoes also look pretty nice, but i haven't worn them outdoors.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I'm really happy with my Shimano MW80s - good to -25C and beyond...


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## scsamoyan (Jan 26, 2009)

pinkrobe said:


> I'm really happy with my Shimano MW80s - good to -25C and beyond...


you dont find the sole not stiff enough?


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

scsamoyan said:


> you dont find the sole not stiff enough?


I have no issues with flex or sore feet from the little bit of riding I've done with the Shimano shoes.


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## Johnny K (Mar 14, 2005)

Ok, anybody with the MW80s:

How is the fit? I ride a 45 Specialized shoe and it fits perfect. Thinking a 46 MW80 would be good for the extra room for insulation...this is a pretty good thread so far.


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## scsamoyan (Jan 26, 2009)

Schmucker said:


> I have no issues with flex or sore feet from the little bit of riding I've done with the Shimano shoes.


when i try and bend them they bend easiliy compared to the carbon soles of the northwaves.


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## mattybfat (Apr 24, 2008)

09 Nortwave here with no real cold yet but fit is good one size up. Tested with watercrossings and feet stayed dry...


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## jut8 (Jul 10, 2006)

If you can afford them, but a set of Lakes, they are awesome, i cant afford them, and the Specialized Defrosters work great and keep my feet comfortable by themselves until about 30 degrees...then i throw a set of toe warmers in and they keep my feet nice and toasty!


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## Bells Brewery MTB (Dec 27, 2005)

*What is winter for you ?*

Pearl Izumi winter boots work great for down to 15deg F then I will add neoprene covers for down to -5 below F....I wear a size larger than normal with a mid weight merino wool sock.......I commute around 40 miles a day (round trip) with this set up and I have had no issues....... mho.....beers


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## mtroy (Jun 10, 2005)

I have notoriously cold toes. Just ask anyone, they will tell ya. This fall I have been puttin' around in some Spec Defrosters. Unfortunately for me, they do not come in half sizes (I wear a 44.5 in another Spec shoe), so it is either too big or slightly snug, but I have so far found them to be pretty good into the 40s. Below that, I think I would be cold again. I think they would make a great fall/spring shoe and maybe winter IF you do not live where it gets truly cold.

For So Cal's warmer climates, they are possibly the perfect fall through spring shoe, better by far than a typical riding shoe, but not a full on winter boot...still trying them out. To go lower in temps, I will try supplementing with chemical warmers. Technology to the rescue. For me, Lakes would likely be way over the top.


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## headangle (Mar 29, 2004)

+1 Specialized Defroster.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

scsamoyan said:


> when i try and bend them they bend easily compared to the carbon soles of the northwaves.


Most of the shoes with carbon fiber soles have the carbon laid up in a way that makes it incredibly stiff. you would be hard pressed to find non-carbon soles as stiff as they make carbon soles. a little bit of flex in the sole is not going to kill you or make you cry.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

If you like warm feet, and ride when it's actually cold (as in, south of 30 or 40F) then it would be Lakes, all day long. A number of my riding buddies have used various options listed, Sidi's, Shimanos, Pearls, booties etc. And to a person? They all ride Lakes now, as we'll ride, regardless of temp, so you just need something that works, every time:thumbsup:


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

*Lake MXZ302*

What about the size for this shoes? compared with sidi or shimano? i wear 46 sidi road shoes and 46 shimano mtb and both fit right, should i go with 46 or bigger?


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## CHSAD (Jan 18, 2004)

When I needed them, everyone told me pretty much not to mess around with other brands and just get the lakes. Had mine a couple of years now and they are my defacto late fall-early spring shoe.


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## stratmosphere (May 22, 2007)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> If you like warm feet, and ride when it's actually cold (as in, south of 30 or 40F) then it would be Lakes, all day long. A number of my riding buddies have used various options listed, Sidi's, Shimanos, Pearls, booties etc. And to a person? They all ride Lakes now, as we'll ride, regardless of temp, so you just need something that works, every time:thumbsup:


2nd this. Lake is the ONLY real Winter boot. Sidi GTX total
fail.


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

I'm no expert but I've found mixing and matching sock combinations is critical also. I wear two layers, a base wicking layer and whatever thickness works for that day . If the snow is deep I'll wear a medium sock with waterproof outer. Too hot and my feet sweat, and will freeze. I can ride in sub zero temps for hours. Am I rambling? blaa blaa blaaa.....sorry


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## Natedogz (Apr 4, 2008)

scsamoyan said:


> until the neoprene tears,then your wet.they tear easily,i go through at least 2 pair every year.the zippers dont last long either.


That is why I put on my riding socks, wrap each foot with about 3' of GladWrap (folding under my toes and then carefully put my shoes on....helps block wind, rain and even puddles....although if you hit enough deep puddles my feet eventually get a lil wet, but this works and it's cheap!  Depending on fit, you maybe able to wear a second pair of thin bike socks over the GladWrap for extra warmth.



jut8 said:


> If you can afford them, but a set of Lakes, they are awesome, i cant afford them, and the Specialized Defrosters work great and keep my feet comfortable by themselves until about 30 degrees...then i throw a set of toe warmers in and they keep my feet nice and toasty!


What specific toe warmers do you use?


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

If you didn't already know, the Lake MXZ302 are on sale for $149 at Performance at the moment. I'm not in Perf club anymore, but when I was you were able to stack it with things like this.

A little late, but on Vet's Day, everything was an extra 15% off and free shipping. Arrived yesterday. $127. So sweeeeeeet 

(Just checked, and size inventories are low but they used to have a lot more before Vet's day.)


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

savo said:


> What about the size for this shoes? compared with sidi or shimano? i wear 46 sidi road shoes and 46 shimano mtb and both fit right, should i go with 46 or bigger?


I wear 45 SIDI and Shimano and would go with the biggest size you could get for the Lakes if you want to do actual winter riding. You'll want the space. Plus the BOA system cinches down from a 48 to my 45 foot very nicely. It adapts well to all sizing.



Johnny K said:


> Ok, anybody with the MW80s:
> 
> How is the fit? I ride a 45 Specialized shoe and it fits perfect. Thinking a 46 MW80 would be good for the extra room for insulation...this is a pretty good thread so far.


The MW80 has an enlarged toe box for my room. You'd be fine with a 45 but if you think you want it to be a bit more spacious, get a 46. I went with a 45 and so far I think I'm satisified. I think sometimes that I should have gotten a 46 but I'm not sure yet.


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## Stroganof (Jan 28, 2006)

Another vote for Lakes. I've had 3 sets of these over the years and the newest ones are the warmest by far. No issues with summer riding socks and temps around zero. They come in "wide" models now and this allows one to have a roomy/warm fit without having to go several sizes larger. I originally bought these in size 50 even though I'm a size 46/47, but found that the cleat placement was way off and that the shoe just didn't fit that well and it started to cause knee issues. Sold them to a friend and moved down to size 48W and have been happy ever since.


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## Chris V. (Oct 11, 2006)

Has anyone tried the Lake mx 140.

As seen here. I have no affiliation with the company, just a link.
http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/item/LAKZFQGN

I was thinking that buying this set up +1 or +1.5 sizes bigger than my normal would allow me to run a nice wool sock, and some polartec ski socks underneath and keep my feets really quite warm.

The other option was the Northwave boots. Anyone else try those??


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

savo said:


> What about the size for this shoes? compared with sidi or shimano? i wear 46 sidi road shoes and 46 shimano mtb and both fit right, should i go with 46 or bigger?


I am a 47 in Sidi and Shimano. I just bought a pair of Lake 302's in 46. The 47 was way to big. YMMV.


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## Timo (Jan 13, 2004)

*Lakes*

Best bang for the buck.


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

masterofnone said:


> +1 for specialized defroster. I've used covers and booties for years, can't compare to a real pair of shoes. I refuse to ride with boots and flats or toe clips. For the first winter last year my toes were warm and dry even in snow and icewater, didn't need toe warmers.


I just started using the Specialized Defrosters. In past seasons, I've used Answer Kashmir's. So far so good with the Defrosters. The big plus is they're wider than the Kashmirs.

Great shoes.


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## scsamoyan (Jan 26, 2009)

tkrutis said:


> Lake winter shoes,they are the best


But do they keep u dry when its raining?


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

Just got a pair of MW80s from ChainReactionCycle - great deal, even with the $25 shipping. I haven't mounted cleats or ridden them yet, but I have tried them on for fit. I wear a 46. Ordered 47 and it's just right for heavy wool socks with wiggle room. They seem _moderately _stiff; better for walking than racing. Simple, fail-proof velcro straps. I'm eager to see how warm they'll be - I'm tired of liners and covers, my toes still get cold. :cryin:


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## scsamoyan (Jan 26, 2009)

Gasp4Air said:


> Just got a pair of MW80s from ChainReactionCycle - great deal, even with the $25 shipping. I haven't mounted cleats or ridden them yet, but I have tried them on for fit. I wear a 46. Ordered 47 and it's just right for heavy wool socks with wiggle room. They seem _moderately _stiff; better for walking than racing. Simple, fail-proof velcro straps. I'm eager to see how warm they'll be - I'm tired of liners and covers, my toes still get cold. :cryin:


 Dont use them when its raining,just used mine for the 1st time in light rain,went thru some small puddles and my feet were soaked, i have video of it if u would like 2c it let me know,if your intent was to keep your feet dry i would send them back b4 you use them,i to bought from universal and they wont take them back,.


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## eedavis (Oct 13, 2006)

a couple of years ago, i bought Shimano MW02s from ChainReactionCycle... haven't put them through any wet-torture like stepping in a puddle or stream, but they have been splash proof against what the tires kick up. (I've heard the main problem is is water running down your leg and soaking socks from the top -- haven't had that problem either.)

With these shoes, all I need is one thick wool sock down to a bit below freezing, can't beat the convenience of not having to deal with booties, baggies, wraps or figuring out some magic combination of socks.

Mine are stiff enough, not quite as stiff as my SH-M225s, but not so I notice riding.

But the important thing is that keeping warm takes a system, there likely isn't "just one thing" that will do it all by itself. If I can keep my head (wool knit cap), hands (lobster gloves) and feet warm (MW02s), it's easy to add/subtract layers to the rest of me to keep comfortable. It was much harder before the shoes, tho, never really found anything that worked nearly as well.


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## Johnny K (Mar 14, 2005)

MW80s on the doorstep tomorrow...will report back.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

I use a pair of these with Kona Wah-Wah pedals. Always warm, always dry.:thumbsup:

http://www.rei.com/product/732795

They're not cheap but they are an awesome pair of boots for a variety of outdoor activities. My winter rides are not as agressive or hard pace as my typical summer training ride so I can get away without being clipped in.


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## mtroy (Jun 10, 2005)

I have been trying these for a while now, the Defroster shoes.

Not perfect, but pretty darn good so far.


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

mtroy said:


> I have been trying these for a while now, the Defroster shoes.
> 
> Not perfect, but pretty darn good so far.


I've worn Specialized Defrosters down to 32F with Cabelas inGenius socks (which deserve their own glowing review). So far, they have been as warm as a pair of Answer Kashmirs that are one size too large for my feet for extra insulation. They aren't just a warmer, waterproof shell, they're actually insulated.

The fit out of the box is a little snug for Specialized. So if you do get them and you don't actually wear the largest size like me, you may want to consider one size too large for riding under freezing. Personally, I think I will put a bootie on top of them and push them to their limits. The fit a LOT nice than the old Kashmirs I've been using. The other option is wearing a heated sock.

It's definitely a good purchase that will keep you on the bike for more of the year.


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## carlfreddy (Dec 2, 2009)

I've been using the Pearl Izumi Barrier GTX. 

Had them all the way down to 7*F without any issues. I bought them big (own purpose) since all that insulation takes up space and you'll most likely be wearing thicker socks as well. 

My only complaint is the insole, and since its insulated, finding a suitable replacement is proving difficult.


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## scsamoyan (Jan 26, 2009)

carlfreddy said:


> I've been using the Pearl Izumi Barrier GTX.
> 
> Had them all the way down to 7*F without any issues. I bought them big (own purpose) since all that insulation takes up space and you'll most likely be wearing thicker socks as well.
> 
> My only complaint is the insole, and since its insulated, finding a suitable replacement is proving difficult.


do they keep you dry?


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## Germany_chris (Sep 14, 2009)

*can you send me some beer*



Bells Brewery MTB said:


> Pearl Izumi winter boots work great for down to 15deg F then I will add neoprene covers for down to -5 below F....I wear a size larger than normal with a mid weight merino wool sock.......I commute around 40 miles a day (round trip) with this set up and I have had no issues....... mho.....beers


Can you send a Kalamazoo native some beer PLEASE..you can keep the Quiring but you need to share the beer..


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Picked up a pair of the Lakes a couple days ago...no rides on em yet, but it has to be better than summer shoes + taping up the vent holes....LOL...talk about cold feet.


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## carlfreddy (Dec 2, 2009)

scsamoyan said:


> do they keep you dry?


The keep me dry unless a put my foot down in a creek that is deeper than the height of the boot.


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## markf (Jan 17, 2007)

same experience with mine. kept me dry in all kinds of horrible weather. 45 mins in 35F driving rain storm? no problem. 10F with drifts that sometimes go over the shoes when pedaling? warm and dry.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

How is the sizing for the Northwave Celsius shoes?

Are they as wide as the Lake W shoes or much narrower?

I'm looking for wide shoes to fit.


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## rufus (Jun 15, 2004)

I've got a pair of Lakes, bought size 47W for winter boots. Maybe a size too big. The Boa does a pretty good job of snugging the boot down if I'm only wearing a single pair of socks, but tightening down the ankle flap is a bit tough, as the velcro patch on the flap doesn't quite match up with the velcro hooks on the side of the boot. When the shop measured, my regular Lake size would have been 44.

Have had two pairs of Northwaves, older size size 45, new ones in a 44. The first pair, 2 or 3 years ago seemed to fit fine at first, but seemed to shrink over time. I thought I was buying big enough to fit two or three pair of socks in them. Maybe just my imagination, but over time they just seemed a bit snug on my feet, maybe a bit narrow. Plus, i didn't think they really kept my feet warm enough, but I'm a cold foot weenie.

The Lakes and my winter bikes are both SPD, but I wanted something with road cleats so I could still ride my good bike until they start salting the roads. I'd rather not deal with booties, and don't feel all that warm with them anyway, so I figured I'd look at the Specialized Defroster or Northwaves for more of a late fall/early spring shoe. Specialized don't agree with my feet at all, so I took a chance and ordered the Northwaves from Probikekit. Went with 44's, expecting the same fit, but since I was only planning on wearing with a single pair of socks, figured it would be ok. The newest ones feel a bit wider than the older ones, just looking at the shape of the toe box, they appear more rounded, and to have more room, than the older model, which looks kind of long, but narrow.

Older ones









New ones









They look sharper too. And it may be my imagination, as I haven't ridden with them out in anything colder than the low 40's, but they seem a bit warmer than the previous version as well. They fit ok with just a pair of regular cycling socks and my Specialized Body Geometry insoles, probably a little too big without the insoles in them. I probably should have gone with a 43, my regular size. They also make an "Arctic" version now, only a mountain version, that is supposedly more heavily insulated. Wonder how warm that would be? Maybe as warm as the Lakes?

So as I said, the older ones I didn't feel were warm enough for me, which is why I went to the Lakes. But I'm a weenie. They may be just fine for you, and like I said, the new ones might be a bit warmer. And there's always the "Arctic" version, but it's a bit pricier, even from England.

Edit: Changed this post to show that my new pair is actually a size 44, not 45 as I had first written.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

rufus said:


> I've got a pair of Lakes, bought size 47W for winter boots. Maybe a size too big. The Boa does a pretty good job of snugging the boot down if I'm only wearing a single pair of socks, but tightening down the ankle flap is a bit tough, as the velcro patch on the flap doesn't quite match up with the velcro hooks on the side of the boot. When the shop measured, my regular Lake size would have been 44.
> 
> Have had two pairs of Northwaves, both size 45. The first pair, 2 or 3 years ago seemed to fit fine at first, but seemed to shrink over time. I thought I was buying big enough to fit two or three pair of socks in them. Maybe just my imagination, but over time they just seemed a bit snug on my feet, maybe a bit narrow. Plus, i didn't think they really kept my feet warm enough, but I'm a cold foot weenie.
> 
> ...


Thanks that's great information on the Northwaves.

What size do you wear for regular cycling shoes. If you wore Lake size 44W, what size would you order the Northwave Celsius?


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## rufus (Jun 15, 2004)

Depends. Even with the Lakes, I bought them bigger to have room for several pairs of heavy wool socks. Summer shoes would have been 44 regular. 

If I was ordering the Northwaves as a true winter boot, I'd have probably gone with a 46 or 47 for them also. For just a single pair of regular cycling socks, or maybe a Defeet Woolie Boolie, a 44 probably would have been sufficient, but I'm keeping the 45's. 

My summer shoes are Vittorias, size 43, but those might be a bit snug. When I was out trying on different mountain bike shoes a few years ago, a Specialized 44 fit me. Sidis, I needed a 44.5, in wide. My first pair of road shoes 20-some years ago were Times in size 42, and my Specialized mb shoes were 42's as well. 

But shoes are weird, sizing is off among brands. hard to know for certain unless you try them on, which in the case of winter boots especially, is pretty much impossible.


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

I invested in a pair of Lake MXZ301 a few years ago. The BOA system fell apart and Lake never responded to my emails. They weren't good for much below 30F either. Now I just run flats in the winter and use real insulated boots.


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## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

I have a pair of the lake MXZ301 and they started coming apart after the 2nd ride ,I had the leather shop stitch them up, I should have got a size biger and I got mine on line so I did not try them on first, but if had to do it over again I would do what Vermont29er is doing,
well that's what I have to do, I run flats with the Lake boot w/out the clips the clips tranfer the cold up to my feet and my feet get cold and numb within 8 or 10 miles anything 30f or 
colder, and I use the little hot toe things. 

I have Raynaud's disease or syndorme if you like to call it, it's a condition that causes some areas of your body — such as your fingers, toes, tip of your nose and your ears — to feel numb and cool in response to cold temperatures or stress. In Raynaud's disease, smaller arteries that supply blood to your skin narrow, limiting blood circulation to affected areas. So I have to take care of my hands & feet, the coldest I have riden in was -45f and it was not very far!

Another thing!, my GF rides in the winter a little bit and she uses Columbia snow boot
$40.00


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## PressedHam (Nov 29, 2010)

I bought a pair of the Garne G.Artix winter mountain bike shoes, and I think they are worth every penny I paid. I am a cold weather weenie, and these shoes let me ride in comfort. Very warm, yet light. Solid shoe. http://www.gaerneshoes.com/product-p/g.artixmtb.htm


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

I have the Lakes, and rode 3 hours on Sunday in 35-40 degree (F) temps.

By the time I was done, my toes were frozen. I was hoping for more.

However, when my shoes arrived, there was only one insole, so I used the insoles from my regular riding shoes. (Strike 1?)

Thinking they were going to be plenty warm, I wore standard DeFeet (not wool) socks, maybe I should have worn thicker? (Strike 2?)

I also work 3/4 length tights (equivalent to shorts and knee-warmers). I wonder if my exposed shins led to cooling of the feet. (Strike 3?)

I am waiting until I get the other actual insole before I weigh in again. They were better than regular shoes, but I was hoping for more.


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## Tasselhof (Nov 18, 2008)

Sounds strange.
Maybe you buyed lakes size smaller or use too skinny socks.

Yesterday i ride 5 hours(mxz302 on medium thermal socks), temp was started from -8 (17.6) and goes to -14 (6.8) - all ok.


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## gord962 (Aug 11, 2007)

I'll chime in from northern Alberta, Canada where winter can be 6 months long  There is a large group of us that ride all winter. The Shimano and Lake winter shoes/boots are definitely the most popular on the trail. A few of the guys in my LBS use the NW Celcius and are all very happy. Seems that Sidi is the only one that gets a bad review around these parts.

I tried winter riding with booties and they are horrible if you have to do any hiking. The toes come up and then snow gets into the vents. If you are only riding on the roads you will be fine, otherwise invest in winter boots/shoes.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

rufus thanks for all the info on the Northwave Celsius.

I ordered sizes 44, 45 and 46 and will return the ones that don't fit.

For temperatures in the 20's Fahrenheit, do you find 1 pair of Defeet woolie boolie socks and the Northwaves will be enough to keep the feet warm?


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

I guess "winter" is a relative term but we are all looking for something that can handle a bit of wet slop and have some insulation. I only get to do a 1-2 rides a week through most of the winter so spending a mint is tough to justify but a good quality winter shoe should last a few years for most of us.... I am just done with toe/shoe covers they are not cheap if you get good ones (gore are like ~$100-120) and if you wear a 45 or larger it is always a struggle to get them over your mountain shoes- a true pleasure when they wet, muddy and 1/2 frozen!

I was hoping to spend between $140- $175 figuring it would give my regular sidi shoes a break and maybe a bit longer life span? I ended up finding the Shimano MW80's for ~$180 shipped and that was about as much as I was willing to spend. They do have pretty good reviews on most of the sites that sell them, except for commuters who where hoping for more water resistance- even then it seems to be the neoprene bootie that once saturated is the cause. Beyond this most of the better shoes I have seen are $200 plus (Pearls, Sidi, Lake) - worth it if you ride enough or where the weather can justify it I guess

Mine should be here any day and I will have to give them a run once they are here- I wear a 45 Sidi and ordered a 46 in the Shimano- hopefully they work well!


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## rufus (Jun 15, 2004)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> rufus thanks for all the info on the Northwave Celsius.
> 
> I ordered sizes 44, 45 and 46 and will return the ones that don't fit.
> 
> For temperatures in the 20's Fahrenheit, do you find 1 pair of Defeet woolie boolie socks and the Northwaves will be enough to keep the feet warm?


Not my feet.


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## Johnny K (Mar 14, 2005)

Here has been my experience with the Shimano MW 80s. I usually wear a 45 shoe and ordered a 46. The 46 fits fine with a medium weight wool sock and there is no way I could fit two socks. 

The construction is great and they seem fairly water and wind resistant.

Warmth: They keep my feet warm for a couple hours in temps down to 35 or so then my feet get cold but never that horrible numb cold with summer shoes. I have used the Grabber hand warmers in them which helps. The issue I have is my feet sweat easily in them which leads to them being cold even in 45 to 50 degree temps. 

I got some RBH designs vapor barrier socks which are supposed to work well with perspiration but they seem to be a bit of a tight fit in the Shimanos so I will be trying them out in my Specialized summer shoes which they fit in better, surprisingly enough. We'll see. Have tried flat pedals but it just seems awkward in anything except Vans.


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## pulser (Dec 6, 2004)

rufus said:


> I've got a pair of Lakes, bought size 47W for winter boots. Maybe a size too big. The Boa does a pretty good job of snugging the boot down if I'm only wearing a single pair of socks, but tightening down the ankle flap is a bit tough, as the velcro patch on the flap doesn't quite match up with the velcro hooks on the side of the boot. When the shop measured, my regular Lake size would have been 44.
> 
> Have had two pairs of Northwaves, both size 45. The first pair, 2 or 3 years ago seemed to fit fine at first, but seemed to shrink over time. I thought I was buying big enough to fit two or three pair of socks in them. Maybe just my imagination, but over time they just seemed a bit snug on my feet, maybe a bit narrow. Plus, i didn't think they really kept my feet warm enough, but I'm a cold foot weenie.
> 
> ...


I ordered the Arctic version 2 weeks ago. I haven't gotten them yet. I'm really hopping they will be warm. I'm so sick of having cold feet.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*In a sorta related question....*



scsamoyan said:


> looking at shimano mw-80 and northwave celsius,any opinions?


What method do you folks use to keep your feet warm down in the 20s F? I've been on the same set of Sidi Dom4s since like 2002. Great shoes, still look great, still fit, feel and work great. In NorCal winter (wet, rainy, muddy, temps down to the 20s at the coldest) I've been using SmartWool socks with plastic bags around my toes inside the shoes. Not ideal, but kinda works. Helps keep the toes dry and warm, but they squirm around inside the shoe, naturally.

I'd love to find a better solution to keep riding with warm toes in the (what passes for winter in NorCal) cold.... low rent if possible.

I haven't tried bootie type covers, but I don't really want to buy two sets a year to keep up with wear. Seems kinda wasteful. Toe warmers don't seem to get very warm. Not enough air circulating inside the shoes, I think.

I'd like to get a pair of winter shoes, if they can be had for cheap enough, and as long as they aren't too warm... especially as the day warms up.

Maybe the answer is another set of low rent basic shoes that are two sizes too big... room for big winter socks!!


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## mtbmitch2 (Sep 24, 2007)

have used both Shimano and Pearl Izumi's. prefer my Pearl Izumi Barrier GTX. 
shoes over my Shimano winter shoes. a bit better insulated for me here
in Boise. Both brands have a good fit and quality.


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## rufus (Jun 15, 2004)

pulser said:


> I ordered the Arctic version 2 weeks ago. I haven't gotten them yet. I'm really hopping they will be warm. I'm so sick of having cold feet.


Let me know how you like them. They're a great looking shoe though.

I went out the other day, temps probably right around 20 degrees F, might have gotten a bit colder by the time I got home, with my Lakes. Since I'm a cold weather wuss, I had a pair of Columbia wool socks, a Nashbar Hytrel sock over those, and then another Columbia wool sock, and my feet were pretty toasty the whole time.

I wasn't planning on being out long, maybe half an hour or so, but I think I got my layering just right, and I wasn't feeling the cold at all, so I stretched it out a bit. Got to 25 minutes out and decided to turn around, and bam, flatted my MTB tire.  And I was in such a hurry to get out before dark, I'd left my seatbag and pump and stuff behind. So i ended up with about a four mile hike back home. Not cold a bit, although the walking probably helped keep my feet warmer than they would have been otherwise.

Got home to find the rim strip had slipped, and the valve stem had ripped away from the tube.


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## kardy (Aug 3, 2006)

I run the Lake shoes, road version, on both MTB and road and I pretty well like them. I modified them a little bit by putting an actual tongue beneath the BOA laces so that I could tighten them down a bit more without them digging into the top of my foot. I also put a 'heel liner' in, which fits onto the shoe just behind my achilles tendon and really hold the heel in place a lot better. That, coupled with a thin smartwool liner sock beneath a standard medium thick merino wool sock and my always-cold tootsies are absolutely toasty in these shoes (down to around 15F).


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

pimpbot said:


> What method do you folks use to keep your feet warm down in the 20s F?
> !


I first posted on my MW80s on this thread 13 months ago, when I'd just gotten them. Here's my update: The good - well built, comfy, velcro straps are fool proof, definitely warmer and more substantial than summer shoes. The not-so-good - While it's a boot, it's a light boot, and my toes still get cold when the mercury dips. My solution is chemical warmers. Toe-only when it's nippy, full length when it's colder. Also, they're a bit of a pain to snake my foot into and not catch any velcro on my socks.

Advice - whatever you get, buy a size or two larger to accommodate socks.


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## Stroganof (Jan 28, 2006)

*Lakes v. Shimano*

I've got both the Lakes and Shimanos - and can say the Shimanos are a better boot, a better fit and better made - and are not nearly as warm as the Lakes. When the temps hit 20 or lower the Shimanos are not enough, and the Lakes rule.

Just got back from an hour fat bike ride at temps around zero (-2 to -6 according to the garmin) and the feet stayed warm in Lakes for about 50 minutes then the toes started getting a small chill. Mine are 1 size large and the Wide model - wearing just one thin summer riding sock and the same sort of other gear you might wear for xc skiing. Thicker socks don't help much IMO.


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## Moozh (Jan 20, 2010)

wish I knew about ordering the lakes (MXZ302) a size larger than normal. I have a pair that are juuust on the uncomfortable side of snug with a pair of regular socks. Dead on with "zero" margin (read..snug at the edge of tolerable comfort) when paired with thin summer socks. 

How are those Sidi diablo gtx'es? I use Sidi mo'sickle boots and love em and assume the quality and detail translates to their cycling products?

Thinking I might have to sell these lakes on..shame


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

I ride in Shimano M086 MTB shoes most of the time. When it gets cold or I'm riding through a lot of water, I wear Lake MX-140's (~ 1/2 size larger so 2 or 3 pair of socks fit comfortably) . They aren't has heavy or expensive as the MXZ302's (~500g per boot instead of ~1500g) but they sure keep moisture out (even when stepping in creek water) and my feet can breathe, while still keeping relatively warm. I rode better than 3 1/2 hours @ 0 C / 32 F last weekend without getting too cold. After 2 or so hours, I could feel the cold a bit in my toes but not too bad.


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

+2 on the Lakes. I got a (slightly) used pair at a swap-sale last Fall, after I moved to NE PA. They were super all last winter, and so far this year have been, again, the bomb. So far I have not needed extra-thick, nor extra-layers on the socks. Nor chemical warmers.

If temps are above 20 my feet don't even notice.

Coldest ride I did last year went from 9F to 11F and back down over about 6 hours of riding, zero issues. Including the creek crossing that wet the boot ankle deep (not enough to get in, just wet and froze on the outers).

I'm also wary of the Boa lacing system, BUT I must say it is VERY comfortable AND easy to use with gloves on.


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## LeonD (Dec 26, 2003)

I had a pair of Lake winter shoes years ago. Wore them from November till April for 5 or 6 years. They were great but eventually wore out.

I picked a new pair up this past weekend and have to say, they are more comfortable than the original. Like bear, I was skeptical about the Boa system but it works really well!

I haven't had them out in really cold weather yet so the jury is still out if they're as warm as the originals. Looking at the weather, I guess I'll find out this week.


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## stratmosphere (May 22, 2007)

The Sidi is horrible in real winter weather. Immediate freezing toes. Sold mine ASAP and got the Lakes.


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## JSD303 (Jun 15, 2006)

I've had a pair of Lake winter boots now for 4years and they are still going strong - no problems with boa or velcro or tread etc. I ride in the Colorado Rockies and have ridden in those boots in -17 with windchill - feet were toasty warm. Wool socks can make a difference - and definitely buy one size larger than normal. I actually try not to wear them if temps will creep much above freezing because they are so wonderfully warm - don't want to sweat to death.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

FYI- The BOA lacing comes with lifetime warranty. Some have grumbled about them breaking... you can order free replacements at http://www.boatechnology.com/guarantee


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## cycljunkie (Feb 6, 2004)

syl3 said:


> a shoe is still a shoe... in my experience neoprene overshoes are a lot better than winter shoes.


+1!!!


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## LeonD (Dec 26, 2003)

I tried neoprene overshoes for a couple of years. And they do work. The problem I had with them was they would tear very quickly. I was going thru two or three pairs a year.

I finally got a pair of Lakes and never looked back.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

I'll probably just score a set of beater shoes off craigslist or at a swap meet... something with a lot of suede or lorica or some other leather/vinyl/waterproof kinda fabric.... get them two sizes too big and double up my thick wool socks. Like I said before, we don't get 'real' winter out here. I just want my feet not to freeze in winter rain storm temps... like down to the high 20s... and wet. 

I wonder how effective gluing some neoprene patches over the toe vents would be? Use ShoeGoo or something like that. I'm sure it would look totally cheapo-rigged.


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

stratmosphere said:


> The Sidi is horrible in real winter weather. Immediate freezing toes. Sold mine ASAP and got the Lakes.


 Not doubting, but certainly surprised! I have always found with my street motorcycle gear that a winter rating is one thing, but Gore-Tex was a must for true performance. Not so with bike stuff I guess?


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

I got three different sizes for the Northwave Celsius. 44, 45, 46.

Width wise the 46 fits best but it feels long.

Anyone has issues cycling with shoes that are a little long vertically? I don't really plan on walking long distances in these shoes.

Would a shoe stretcher be a good idea to widen the shoe?


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## stc29 (Aug 13, 2010)

I have been very happy with the Peal Izumi GTX shoes. They are warm for single digit riding and also have Gore-Tex which is good for the heavy downpour rides. Make sure you order 1-2 sizes larger because fit was an issue with me. I ride with a lot of folks who are happy with the Lakes.


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## xctearor (Jan 12, 2004)

PI Barrier GTX, hands down. Super comfy and warm down to single digits with a single pair of Smartwool socks. 

I've heard nothing but great things about the Lakes as well.


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## nepbug (Sep 3, 2004)

Vermont29er said:


> I invested in a pair of Lake MXZ301 a few years ago. The BOA system fell apart and Lake never responded to my emails. They weren't good for much below 30F either. Now I just run flats in the winter and use real insulated boots.


How did the BOA system fall apart?

I've busted 2 laces over the last 3 years (I think the added stress of cinching down the size 48 shoes on my size 44 feet wears them out), but replacing the laces isn't too much of a hassle.

BOA is headquartered locally for me so I just contacted them and went in to pick up the parts. They sell spare parts for all of their stuff here:
http://www2.boatechnology.com/home.php

If you don't want to bother with it what size do you have? I might be interested in taking them off your hands if they are slightly smaller than the 48s I currently have so I can some boots for those days that I don't have to run thick socks.


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## grouan (Jul 29, 2004)

I have had Sidis most recently (worked ok other than the sole) and a set of Northwaves- both are nice shoes.

Last week I got a set of Lakes, even though two of my riding friends have had issues with the stitching which required Lake to make right, and I have to say in my short experience with them I am really impressed- they feel warmer than either my Sidis or NorthWaves. And the sole is one of the best soles for walking on wet rock.

I hope that the durability issues have worked themselves out.


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## Cptn. Sense Of Direction (Mar 10, 2008)

anyone try regular shoes w/ a layer of innertube under the sole where the cleat is? someone suggested that to me, and i'm going to give it a go tomorrow. 

I"m using regular shoes w/ wool socks.


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## Hugor (Aug 27, 2008)

You shouldn't need winter shoes if you ride a 29er cause your feet are 3 inches higher than everybody else.


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## smelly (Jan 15, 2004)

Anyone else have a problem with the stitching on their Lakes coming undone? I use my MXZ302's for maybe 3 months of the year(this is their fourth season now), and in the first two years they went to the cobbler three times to get stitching repaired around the heel cup. By the third time, I just had him replace all of Lake's stitching (which uses too fine of a thread and doesn't go deep enough) and send the stitching all the way through the boot. 
It's a decently warm boot, but I'd gladly shell out a little more for something with better stitching and more stiffness. I don't like the BOA system, it doesn't tighten down over the foot securely enough to really make you feel connected to the shoe. A simple strap/buckle that cinches over the arch of the foot would do wonders to make this thing feel more secure.


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