# Suntour Command Shifters on dirt drop bars (RM2), thoughts? Experiences?



## Mr. Claus (Oct 5, 2015)

Quick question (sorta), first will the Suntour command shifters (7-speed accushift version) work with XT derailleurs and cassette? I believe I've heard the cassette spacing is pretty close. I am sure they are no substitution for the WTB shifter mounts as they seem to be quite close to the bars and not as ergonomically elegant, but are they even worth a shot, say if I maybe knew a place I could get a pair for $80? I currently have barcons and will stick with those if there is a general consensus that the butterfly shifters aren't the droids I'm looking for. cheers


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Mr. Claus said:


> Quick question (sorta), first will the Suntour command shifters (7-speed accushift version) work with XT derailleurs and cassette? I believe I've heard the cassette spacing is pretty close. I am sure they are no substitution for the WTB shifter mounts as they seem to be quite close to the bars and not as ergonomically elegant, but are they even worth a shot, say if I maybe knew a place I could get a pair for $80? I currently have barcons and will stick with those if there is a general consensus that the butterfly shifters aren't the droids I'm looking for. cheers


The shifter will have a friction mode, so that's always the easiest option. The floating pulley on shimano derailleurs will compensate for a lot of incompatibility issues, but I don't think the combo you describe was ever "ideal" for indexing. Here are some other options though, depending on how perfect you think you need to be:

First, some data points :
- Suntour shifters pull 2.5mm of cable per click.
- Shimano 7-speed (&8 spd) shifters pull 3.0mm of cable per click.
- Suntour derailleur movement ratio is 1.92:1 & 2.0:1
(parallelogram did not have constant ratio. Cog spacing varied)
- Shimano standard derailleur movement ratio is 1.67:1 
(often cited incorrectly as 2:1)
- Shimano standard derailleur with dura ace cable hack is 1.84:1
(see this)
- Shimano standard derailleur with hubbub cable hack is 1.6:1
(see this) 
- Suntour 7 speed ultra freewheels cog spacing is 5mm
- Suntour 7(&8) speed microdrive cassettes spacing is 5mm & 4.8mm
- Shimano/SRAM/pre-98 Sachs 7 speed cassette/freewheel spacing is 5mm
- J-Tek Shiftmate #1 = 1.051:1
- J-Tek Shiftmate #2 = 1.108:1
- J-Tek Shiftmate #4 = 1.199:1​
Some combos that work OK, using 7 speed suntour shifters & 7 speed freewheels
- suntour shifter (2.5mm) x shiftmate #4 (1.199:1) x shimano derailleur with normal cable attachment (1.67:1) = 5.006 mm per click.

- suntour shifter (2.5mm) x shiftmate #2 (1.108) x shimano dura ace alt cable attachment (1.84:1) = 5.097mm travel per click​
Another option might be that you can get an extra 8th "hidden click" out of the 7-speed shifter, if you wanted to use 8 speed cassettes. That opens up some different combos, but I won't go into them unless that's what you want. Obviously, I could go on forever....


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Also,

Rumor has it that you can still buy Kelly takeoffs directly at [email protected], even though the website is gone. Haven't tried ordering, but I do love the ones I have.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Some like the WTB solution. Some like it a lot. I am happy w/ bar end shifters though the least place i want to add weight to a handlebar on a mountain bike is the bar end. On a tourer where you need stability and a straight line, shifters adding weight to the ends of a drop bar make perfect sense but not on a mountain bike navigating technical terrain. Wtb shifters add weight to brake levers so they don't offer any solution to this..
I would not dismiss downtube shifters... DT shifters coupled w/ 6 gears in the back and 2 up front.
If the suntour bar cons are light, they are good option.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

couple of other things:

The first time I used command shifters, I put them on the wrong side (above) the brake levers, because that's what I'd most often seen. Turns out this is wrong:









They should be installed like THIS. The accushift ones have a different mounting strap I think, so they can get a little closer to the brake body. Like THIS.

I've since taken mine off, but plan and put them on this bike instead, which currently has bar end shifters, but in the proper location:









On this particular bar at least (salsa woodchipper, which is wider, has longer ends and flares out a bit more than the WTB bar), I agree with colker that bar ends are not very ideal on an off-road bike at all. They bump my knees getting on and off the bike, or get bumped when I lean the bike against something, and aren't particularly easy to reach when you're on rough terrain and can't let go to move your grip.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Last thought (Can you tell I'm going stir crazy, sitting at my computer?! It hasn't broken zero degrees in a week, and I'm bored out of my head.)

If you DON'T use barcons on that bar, I'd highly recommend getting THESE bar end extenders. Extra inch makes the grip at the drops SO much more usable and secure feeling. One of the best widgets ever.


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## Jak0zilla (May 16, 2010)

iamkeith said:


> Also,
> 
> Rumor has it that you can still buy Kelly takeoffs directly at [email protected], even though the website is gone. Haven't tried ordering, but I do love the ones I have.


The website is up, and Chris sold me some not that long ago. (I've yet to install them.)

Kelly TakeOff - Kelly Bike Company : Kelly Bike Company


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

My 2 cents:

I would do the Kelly adapters before using those suntour command shifters. The bar ends are a great (if not better) option. I think you're overthinking this... Use the barcons since you have them already. If you don't like them after a few rides, look at other options then. In the meantime, do searches on ebay or CL for shifter mounts but be prepared to pay through the nose for those.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Like she said: build and ride it.
Ridin on dirt drops is very different and a lot of fun. Just ride what you have for a while and then tinker w/ ideas. As you see the shifter thing on mtb w/ drop bars is not sorted out.. unless you go w/ new ultegra 10sp stuff:skep::eekster::nono:


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## Mr. Claus (Oct 5, 2015)

Keith, many thanks for the detailed reply, hmmm you must be somewhere near Montana, as some of my family lives there and it's been in the single digits, they too are going a bit batty. As mentioned I have the barcons on there now and will certainly be riding it like that for some time, but the command shifters just seemed like a pretty good deal (down to $70 and almost new). I am not in a rush, but was just curious about a review of their functionality and durability. I was just toying with the idea and looking for options. I've used barcons on many a road bike BITD and found them good on the road, but I was thinking they would be more dicey on rough terrain, but I'll give them some ride time and then maybe see about the Kelly's. 

I will, like I think just about everyone here, jump at the opportunity to buy the WTBs if they came up at a "bargain" price (aka not $475 like the pair a couple months ago on ebay). Many thanks again for your opinions and advice, as always it comes from experience and knowledge. I'll be finishing my Jelly Bean up this Friday after work and will post a pic or two on the Salsa thread....cheers and Keith I hope a "warm" front comes through!


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

Mr Claus, Many years ago I was a suntour/ drop bar mtb fan... I tried the command shifters and was not happy with them. I went back to bar cons after a couple of weeks.
Your experience may be different. By the way I am sure That I still have at least 1 good Suntour rear derailleur in my bins that I could part with, it will shift much better than trying to get a shimano to work. If you want it P.M. me. cheap to someone who will use it.


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## Mr. Claus (Oct 5, 2015)

Thanks for the reply and offer Mact, but I'm going stick with a Shimano drive train and barcons, put some ride time on it (if it ever stops raining, though we need it!) and evaluate the set-up. Cheers all


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## restlessrider (Nov 29, 2007)

I have been riding with Suntour 'command' (aka butterfly) shifters with a Shimano XT rear derailleur and XTR 8-speed 12-32 cassette for a couple of years on my fat tire gravel/winter dropbar bike.
It shifts perfectly across the range other than the usual slow reaction shifting to the smallest two cogs, but that is because there is not much tension in the derailleur spring on small cogs.
I've heard these Suntour-Shimano set-ups are not compatible for 20+ years and for 20+ years I have used Suntour thumb and butterfly shifters with Shimano derailleurs both 7 & 8 speed perfectly.
In my opinion the butterfly shifters are ergonomic and bombproof.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

A little playing around and I got this setup put together. I have used the command shifters before and was less then impressed.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

AKamp said:


> A little playing around and I got this setup put together. I have used the command shifters before and was less then impressed.


Good stuff.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Solid work for sure. Pretty similar to the DKG XTR mount.


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## gigglez (Jan 28, 2017)

I run 6 speed suntour barcons with a cheap 6 speed shimano freewheel and suntour xc pro rear derailleur, Index is fine, I am not a mechanic. the wtb shifter pod mounts? if you ride on the hoods can you reach them or were they designed to be accessed from the drops. I like the idea of butterfly's but they're pricey and seem like they be in the way on the hoods, does any one have pictures of them set up being ridden,it's hard to tell if I actually want these just looking at the parts.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

This is interesting if true: dia compe considering making a 
new command shifter


__
http://instagr.am/p/BP6GUjIjKhF/


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

They didn't work the first time......


iamkeith said:


> This is interesting if true: dia compe considering making a
> new command shifter
> 
> 
> ...


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## gigglez (Jan 28, 2017)

i had dia compe bar end shifters, new they were great, after a year not so smooth stored in my basement, the shifter plate became sticky really hard to shift. suntours and simplex stored in the same place no problems 25+ years. the dia compes look great but still I usually have my hands on the hoods, it still looks like these would be in the way, even if the were under the brake levers


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## gigglez (Jan 28, 2017)

I have too much time on my hands but the butterfly command base (either strap or cast) with the plate that keeps tension on the cable housing and just the barcon shifter end all mate together and would produce a drop bar mounted thumb shifter that you could put wherever you want it (I love it when people on ebay show pictures of things disassembled)This is not cheap.
The kelly takeoffs look great, Im probably going to get those, for a different bike, I just have to decide which one...


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## smithjss (Apr 3, 2010)

*reply*

I went with DKG shifter mounts for my dropper due to a lack of WTBs. I mounted them to M900 pods however, as that is the gearing that I typically ride and am accustomed to. I could not be happier.

I have an extra pair of mounts rat-holed but need to be drilled out if used with M900 of which can be easily done to the correct diameter. 15/64" is just right for 6mm.

You would also need a 6mm bolt that is the correct length. Too short and it will pull out the threads. I have these bolts and dimensions as well.

DoubleCentur and Rumpfy helped me find my way but I'm dialed in now and love the setup. Such a fun ride through the woods.


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## gigglez (Jan 28, 2017)

thanks for letting me see that, If you wouldn't mind parting with a set of those I'd be interested.


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## raymsl (Mar 10, 2021)

AKamp said:


> A little playing around and I got this setup put together. I have used the command shifters before and was less then impressed.


What is this?


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

raymsl said:


> What is this?


I built them to mount some 985 shifters to drops prior to any Shimano hydraulic STI levers. Ran them with TRP brakes. I have since gone back to flats on that bike but will probably play with it again.


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