# 3 Old Farts + 4 eMTBs = FUN!



## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

I've been lusting after eMTBs for several months. Bought a Sondors Thin for urban bike trails & errands in June. Its been a hoot!

My SC Hightower is almost perfect, but I'm not. Frankly tired of pushing it up hills to ride down. Then need a recovery day afterwards. Grrr...

Friends got eMTBs next. WOW, I think I need one of those to rescue my knee from pushing MTBs up hills!

Did much reading research & decided to demo the 2 that seemed the closest matchs to geometry, slackery, & all-mtn suspension of the Hightower. Wednesday was eMTB demo day!

Demos: Local hills with hero dirt & a little mud in the shade on a Specialized Turbo Levo (Brose, no dropper). Later I returned the TL & went to the other shop & street demoed the Trek Powerfly 8 FS (Bosch w dropper).

Friends rode their LaPierre hardtail w front susp (Bosch) and a Bulls Stream FS Enduro (Brose). We traded off & tested everything!









The TL seemed strong in the middle (trail) of three assist modes. Climbed the 900-ft hill easily. I needed to stop & pant 2-3 times, but it waited patiently!

It had a cheap 3-fixed-position dropper added by the shop that I had issues with occasionally. Made me miss my reverb. The TL had tubeless Minion HDR2s, just like my Hightower.  I felt very comfortable getting frisky with these tires on familiar trails!

Flowing down hills the brakes, tires, & TL worked great! My only complaint was my fit to the large frame. The seat post was too tall for me. With dropper fully compressed, the seat was still too high to get comfortable in a downhill, ass-behind-the-seat position.

Back to climbing switchbacks with the TL in Trail or Turbo assist modes, it was difficult to stay vertical, balanced, & pedaling lightly thru the turn. The power assist would sometimes drop out & surge back causing a loss of balance.

Hmmm ... I see why the TL owners around here say they only use 15-20% assist for tight turns. This softens the surge/no-surge felt in the 50% Trail & 100% Turbo settings. Maintaining balance is easier.

The surge off the bottom has a benefit if you are a stunter. Its very easy in turbo mode to one-stroke pedal up into a mono from a stop!

The surge/no-surge is minor issue if not turning tightly & seems to be associated with your applied torque dropping below (or rising above) some threshold, without a change in pedal cadence. Didn't really noticed a lot of change in assistance vs pedal cadence above the minimum torque threshold.

In my case (5'6", 29" inseam), a TL with medium-size frame & a software upgrade to smooth low-torque power delivery would be hard to resist.

The Bosch in the LaPierre was noticeably smoother in power delivery & very predictable assist vs. the TL. Felt a little stronger than the TL Brose. Easily pedaled around every switchback without losing balance. Faster cadence got more torque (than Brose). Sweet! Frame size too long for me.

The Bulls has the Brose pa like the TL, and really didn't seem any different PA-wise to the TL. Much tighter frame, bars to seat. Fluffy long-travel suspension. Ready for Downieville.

Then over to Sharp Bikes in Lafayette, CA to demo a Trek Powerfly 8 FS.









The Powerfly (PF) is very similar to the TL, but 130mm suspension vs TL at 140mm. The PF LT in Europe is 150mm, but we can't get it here. Grrr...

Latest Bosch CX pedal-assist system, display & controls. Biggest visual difference is the separate battery pack behind the downtube. The TL battery is kinda hidden _in_ the downtube. TL is more stealthy. The PF battery is 500WH vs. 460WH in the cheaper TL models.

Climbed up & down some steep 400-ft hills near the shop to test the pa, downhill balance, & brakes. All I could really do with a paved-only test ride. Dropping at speed the PF handled well & felt balanced.

Immediately I noticed 3 differences with the Bosch pedal-assist system vs TL's Brose; smoother power delivery, more-responsive linear torque increase vs. cadence speed, and ultimately MORE torque.

I could turn tight figure-8s with the PF on the side of a steep paved hill and never lose balance, in any of the four power modes. I could only do that on the TL in ECO (20% assist) mode. The PF has smoooother assist & most noticeable in slow tight turns.

The oem tires on the PF are ok on the pavement, but I didn't trust 'em much. Coming back down the steep hills, I got some speed up & did some hard brake testing. Front did pretty well, but the rear got worse with heat. After 300-ft of elevation drop on the rear brakes, I could no longer lock the rear tire when I tried to slow to a stop. Had to go vertical & hammer the front brakes.

Hmmm ... that surprised me how the rear faded with heat. I wonder if they are really that cheap or need bleeding?

Hmmm ... the PF brake system specs are missing in link above. Just like the TL rim specs are missing in that link. Hmmm ...

So $5500 for TL COMP (w dropper), add better tires & maybe wheels someday.
$5000 for PF (w dropper), but it will need better tires & brakes now!

I wish I could dirt demo a PF, but mediums are not a popular demo size around here <sigh>. I can't believe I'm considering a new eMTB that needs better brakes immediately. GAH!?!

Anyway, I got dealers to call about brakes & price quotes tomorrow.

Wednesday was the 1st day in my life I actually pedaled all the way to the top of that hill. With a bad knee & a BIG-ASS grin on my face! 

Catfish ...


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Great report!


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

900 ft hill? Doesn't seem that big. How often do you ride? Which OEM tires? Maxxis are pretty good where I ride in MA.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Thanks for the interesting review. My off road excursions are mainly on a DIY BBS02 hardtail with rpm PAS; learned pretty quickly not to enter a switchback too fast.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

leeboh said:


> 900 ft hill? Doesn't seem that big.


Depends on your perspective I guess, I like climbing and for me 900' is most definitely significant. I suppose a motor might change that perspective though.


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

Call crazy Lenny's in Madison for a price on the bulls. I'm not sure if they carry trek or la Pierre, don't think they do specialized...but the prices are nuts. I've bought a few bikes there now, most recently the bulls fs3 E stream 27.5, which is such a fun bike! Might get a killer deal for a new years sale...I got my bulls on a 1 day sale they had when the cubs got into the world series...paid closer to the price of the bulls non electric version of the same bike.

Before you buy, have you ridden an sduro from haibike with the Yamaha motor yet? I've got one of those too and really like the way their motor responds.


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

leeboh said:


> ...
> Which OEM tires? Maxxis are pretty good where I ride in MA.


My oem reference was to the Powerfly with Bontrager Chupacabra TLR 27.5x2.80 tires. What I wrote is so terse, the missing details are not obvious. Sorry.

That very-round tire profile with a its raised-spot pattern works GREAT in most conditions. Pump 'em up & rolling resistance should be low if roading. Nice big contact patch, if it finds something to bite.

My initial lack of trust comes from my local trails. When dry, its a thin layer of loose dirt on hard pack. Very skatey if the tread don't cut thru loose & bite the hard. When wet, the clay fills those large open areas in the first revolution. 2nd revolution & beyond its sticking to itself & you are on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride until your front tire locks. Wheee!

Today, those tires worked well on the sticky hero dirt 4 days after last rain. When my Minion HDR2s come in, I'll go tubeless & be ready for normal conditions.



fos'l said:


> Thanks for the interesting review. My off road excursions are mainly on a DIY BBS02 hardtail with rpm PAS; learned pretty quickly not to enter a switchback too fast.


Yes, its taking a lot of practice to learn & stay balanced! The trick appears to be as little assist as you really need. Which means maybe shifting & reducing assist for each switchback. Handlebar-mounted assist control seems necessary for old or tired riders using higher assist levels normally.

My surging complaints about the TL-Brose PAS sound worse than they really are. AND I learned today that the PF-Bosch can be as surge-y as the TL-Brose when in Turbo assist, lowest gear, and riding a rough cow-pocked trail. The torque multiplication of the low gear makes the turn-on acceleration of the motor will WAKE you right up!

It was the older Bosch Performance Line PAS on the LaPierre that was the smoothest in Turbo mode, not the PF-Bosch. Sorry.

Anyway, I tested the Powerfly again yesterday to be sure of things. It tried to follow me home. Actually it failed my brutal steep-paved-downhill with rear-brake-only test twice more. So its repeatable. Requires a lot of applied force.

At normal temps I could easily lock rear tire. But when hot the lever stopped same place, but NO SLOWING with rear only! Once it cooled off, it worked normal again. Hmmm...

When I returned it to the shop I said we need to talk about rear-brake upgrades & end-of-year discounts. They said OK and made me a cup of coffee.  After a round of negotiations, I got an XT rear disk installed & a nice discount.

Rode it home today, put my good seat on it, and headed to some local FUN trails! No brake problems at all this afternoon!

I'll continue this NEW EMTB announcement after a good ride & some photos tomorrow. Time to CELEBRATE!!! 

Catfish ...


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

Love it! 57 year old Hightower and Soma-B-Side eMTB rider here. Debating on being the first to add electric to my Hightower because I love the bike so much, but would like (need?) the assist on climbing. The Hightower is a dream going down...

I've got my eye on the Focus Jam2 with built in extended battery option. Not sure if they are available yet in the US, but I know they are coming.

Can't wait to hear more about the "old fart" group out having fun!


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## Phil413 (Aug 9, 2016)

Enjoyed reading your "fun" review. Love that ebikes allow you to dial in how much suffer you want taken out. I own the Bulls 27" myself. The Brose motor is amazing. 


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

The mission control app on the turbo levo lets you change the take-off speed regardless of torque setting (which is also adjustable).

Great post!


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

great write up thanks for sharing


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

Whiptastic said:


> Love it! 57 year old Hightower and Soma-B-Side eMTB rider here. Debating on being the first to add electric to my Hightower because I love the bike so much, but would like (need?) the assist on climbing. The Hightower is a dream going down...
> ...
> Can't wait to hear more about the "old fart" group out having fun


Thank you & everyone else for your nice replies & encouragement!

OMFG, if a Bosch CX PAS could just magically appear on my Hightower!?!

But it would take magic I suspect to mate to an existing carbon frame not designed for it. But I can almost get a woody just thinkin' about it! ;-)

I bought the Powerfly & put 116 miles on her the 1st week. After a little more suspension tuning & ergo adjustments, you won't be able to get me off cloud 9!!! 

A crappy video of 3 slow old farts with their new eMTBs on New Years Day!






Catfish ...


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

motocatfish said:


> Thank you & everyone else for your nice replies & encouragement!
> 
> OMFG, if a Bosch CX PAS could just magically appear on my Hightower!?!
> 
> But it would take magic I suspect to mate to an existing carbon frame not designed for it. But I can almost get a woody just thinkin' about it!


Here's a little teaser for your dreams... :eekster:


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

what you got going on there?? I have a bfang mid drive on my full suspension bike and absolutely enjoy it, but the bike is a older motobecane I am looking to add another mid drive on a much nicer mountain bike and looking for options. I believe a bfang would hang way to low on that bike. I have herd different reports on doing this to carbon bikes, but I would if I knew it can be done successfully


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

A BBS02 has been fitted to some carbon bikes but, in general, the thickness of the bottom bracket presents a problem. The Cyclone series of motors may be a more feasible option, but the light weight of carbon over aluminum is somewhat minimized with a motor. Look at the Surface 604 carbon hardtail; it uses a (Castelli, I think) mid-drive installed in the BB AFAICT.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

fos'l said:


> A BBS02 has been fitted to some carbon bikes but, in general, the thickness of the bottom bracket presents a problem. The Cyclone series of motors may be a more feasible option, but the light weight of carbon over aluminum is somewhat minimized with a motor. Look at the Surface 604 carbon hardtail; it uses a (Castelli, I think) mid-drive installed in the BB AFAICT.


thanks for the info, that's what I was thinking about the carbon thanks for the confirmation on that, the good thing is they make some really nice aluminum bike as well.

then issue is a lot of the new mountain bikes have that curve in the frame next to the BB making ground clearance a little lower then if tube went into the BB straight like they all used to do. concerning the middrive mounting place


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

Whiptastic said:


> Here's a little teaser for your dreams... :eekster:
> ...


YIKES! Let me know where your build thread will be, as I wanna watch! 

Catfish ...


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

motocatfish said:


> YIKES! Let me know where your build thread will be, as I wanna watch!


Right now it is more of an experimental exercise in seeing if an eMTB can be created that only uses pedal assist when climbing and "feels" like a normal MTB when the power is turned off. Focus E-bikes seems to be on the forefront of trying to produce an eMTB that "feels" more like a normal MTB. Their Jam 2 is very interesting and the prototype Project-X is really neat.

So far I have a dual chainring mount for the Race Face crankset and a free wheel sprocket for the motor. That will allow the bike to be pedaled without power while only turning the second chain to motor and small free wheel. A throttle based variable assist will be used only when climbing assistance is needed. Because of that, I can run a very small and light weight battery. If it all works out in that configuration, then I can think about replacing the crankset with a freewheeling one that doesn't require you to turn the second chain when power is off.

It's kind of a love-hate relationship when it comes to adding a light weight mid-drive to a CS Hightower. Everything about the bike is great for my style of riding, but I can certainly use the assist when climbing and I'm not getting any younger.

My stock Hightower XL 29er weighed in at just under 30lbs. If I can keep the additional weight of all the E-assist components under 10lbs. it might not feel that bad pedaling it without power, plus if I design the BB to bottle nuts mounting bracket right, hopefully the motor can be easily removed along with the battery to have the blissful Hightower human powered ride anytime I want.

I will let you know if I follow through with this little experiment&#8230;


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

I gathering info to purchase my first pedal assist e-mtb.
The only bikes I have demo'd so far are the Turbo Levo ($4500 model, I would want the dropper post model) and then the Trek Powerfly 8 FS ($5000) and that was both on the street.
I rode the TL months ago and the PF 2 days ago so it is hard to make a comparison of the motor performance.
My first reaction was i would not like to be with out the left thumb power assist switch like the PF 8 has.
The Specialized dealer said that handle bar power assist control was not needed.
I can see how reducing the assist when negotiating switch backs could be a big plus considering how strong the PF 8 assist came on at low cadence in turbo mode.
I do not remember how the Brose motor responded in comparison to the Bosch.
It is also good to know your groups experience with the PF brakes and tires since the only reason to go up a hill is to come down.
I was wishing that both bikes would have at least 150mm suspension travel.
I am hoping to demo A Haibike with the Bosch motor in a few weeks.
Haibike has an All mountain 7 series with the Bosch and 150 mm of travel and 3.0 tires if I have the facts correct.
So if you do not mind some questions here goes.

1 Is there a clear cut preference between the Bosch and Brose motors?

2 Which bikes are getting the Shimano motor or are they out yet.

3 I noticed the PF 8 has a slight over run when you stop pedaling. Is that an issue or only when about to go over a cliff?

4 I have been riding dirt bikes for 50 years and feel the more suspension travel the better. Should that be a consideration when choosing between the PF-130mm, the TL-140 mm and the Haibike 150mm ?

5 I wish the Haibike with the Bosch did not have that idler sprocket to route the chain. It seems that idler would cause extra drag, maintenance and less chain wrap around an already small front sprocket. Any comments.

6 Seems like the Bulls bikes with the Brose motor have the power assist control on the handlebar. If that is so could the TLevo with the Brose motor be retrofitted with a handle bar power control?

7 Is the proprietary battery issue with the Brose motor a good reason to go with Bosch?

I appreciated and enjoyed the comparison info you shared.

Thanks for your consideration.
I will plan on buying a bike soon but need your experience to direct me to the right one.
I feel that buying these e-bikes is like buying a computer that will no longer be the latest and greatest in 6-12 months.

Herman


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

consider something like this https://lunacycle.com/lunacycle-7500-full-suspension-ebike/

putting the battery in a back pack will give you a much better over all feel IMO

they have a wide selection of great e mountain bikes to fit many price ranges and quality ranges


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## dman_mb1 (Jan 19, 2007)

Haibike offers similar bikes with either Yamaha or Bosch power trains, in the AllMtn range. They have slightly different power characteristics but similar geometry, etc, so it's a good way to compare powertrains without too many other variables coming into play.


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

Catfish - Are you still on your Powerfly high?

Got the Race Face dual sprocket mount on. The large Chop Saw external chain ring is causing a stir on the trails.










I just tell them it's a sprocket I had sitting around that is used as a chain guard. He, he, he... Still running the stock size 30T inbound, but might add a 28T oval on the far inbound 64BCD to help with the future extra weight. Can easily flip the derailleur into the lock position and manually put the chain on the 30T or 28T depending on the trail I'm riding. One step closer...


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

highroad 2 said:


> ...
> So if you do not mind some questions here goes.
> 
> 1 Is there a clear cut preference between the Bosch and Brose motors?
> ...


1. Bosch rewards faster rider cadence & torque with MORE assist than available at minimum cadence & torque. Brose provides SAME assistance (at selected level) no matter rider cadence or torque, if above minimum.

So _my_ interpretation is that the Bosch PAS is a better personal trainer, encouraging you to do more. The Brose PAS seems to encourage the minimum output to get the same available assist.

2. Could not find any to see or demo.

3. The Trek PF "over-run" seems short to me & not an issue. The TL had a little also, but I don't remember which was more noticeable.

4. I understand the desire for more travel & have ridden motos for 48 years also. The more I ride the PF with its 130mm travel the more I like it just the way it is. Only 140mm on my Hightower(29), but it seems like plenty to me also for all-mtn stuff.

5. Demoed one, but didn't notice any issues.

Be aware that the Brose & Bosch systems on Bulls & Haibikes do have functional "Walk Assist". The TL & the PF both have those functions disabled in the USA market. Grrr...

6. It will be interesting to see if the TL gets handlebar PAS-level control. I like the feature, but its another breakable part up top.

7. TLs are selling like hot cakes, so I suspect 3rd-party batteries will become available. I bought the PF vs. TL for a number of reasons. I actually demo-ed both on the same day, but not the same trails.

Good luck with your selection. Go demo them again to be sure.

Catfish ...


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

Whiptastic said:


> Catfish - Are you still on your Powerfly high?
> 
> Got the Race Face dual sprocket mount on. The large Chop Saw external chain ring is causing a stir on the trails.
> 
> ...


Yes PF HIGH is still here, but I wish this damn RAIN & MUD would dry out. Went south 2 weeks ago & rode Mt. Lukens with a couple of non-ebike friends. They were quite impressed I could climb faster than the old guy & almost kept the younger guy in view. A day of riding in Death Valley also.

I bet your HT is stirring up the locals! Got me all excited just watchin'!

Catfish ...


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

highroad 2 said:


> 2 Which bikes are getting the Shimano motor or are they out yet?


The 2017 Focus Jam 2 is said to use the Shimano STePS E8000 setup with Di2 compatibility. This is a bike I have my eye on in 29er Di2 form. I think they are here or coming in 2017. Hoping to test ride one when I can. Check out the specifications. Small 250W motor with 70nM output and normal MTB feel; or so that's their goal. In 29er form it's 20.9kg.

Singletrack Magazine | First Ride: The New Focus JAM² Trail Bike


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## JRT_in_WMass (Jul 22, 2013)

highroad 2 said:


> ...and less chain wrap around an already small front sprocket. Any comments. ...


With the top section of chain in tension with high load, the first several loaded teeth on the top and near the top of the sprocket (chainring) are the most highly loaded and that loading drops off quickly on teeth further away toward the bottom of the sprocket.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Whiptastic said:


> The 2017 Focus Jam 2 is said to use the Shimano STePS E8000 setup with Di2 compatibility. This is a bike I have my eye on in 29er Di2 form. I think they are here or coming in 2017. Hoping to test ride one when I can. Check out the specifications. Small 250W motor with 70nM output and normal MTB feel; or so that's their goal. In 29er form it's 20.9kg.
> 
> Singletrack Magazine | First Ride: The New Focus JAM² Trail Bike


I'll buy one when they come out. They look really good.


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

Whiptastic said:


> The 2017 Focus Jam 2 is said to use the Shimano STePS E8000 setup with Di2 compatibility. This is a bike I have my eye on in 29er Di2 form. I think they are here or coming in 2017. Hoping to test ride one when I can. Check out the specifications. Small 250W motor with 70nM output and normal MTB feel; or so that's their goal. In 29er form it's 20.9kg.
> 
> Singletrack Magazine | First Ride: The New Focus JAM² Trail Bike


Thanks for the link. Sounds like an eHT huh? ;-)

Here's me & Ms.Powerfly climbing Mt. Lukens in SoCal 2 weeks ago.









Wish I'd had the gopro mounted for the singletrack down the mtn. It was a BLAST! 

Catfish ...


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

Catfish
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my 7 questions.
I got to the point that I needed to move on in my life and quit thinking about what bike to purchase so I now have a 2017 Haibike Xduro Allmtn 7.0 .
I have had the bike for 1 week and immediately realized from riding the climbs in my yard that it was not geared low enough for my liking.
I noticed that the Trek PF 8 that you have is geared lower with the same Bosch CX motor


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

For some reason it cut off the rest of my post.

The powerfly 9 (Euro only) is the bike I really wanted because it has 150mm suspension travel and it is geared even lower than the PF 8.
After only 1 week and 20 miles I am hooked on pedal assist full suspension Mtn bikes.

I am not sure that I am hooked on the Haibike with the Bosch/ SES system because I have already had a catastrophic derailleur and chain failure which apparently has happened with others with the SES system and blame seems to be what is called chain "suck" in very muddy situations.
So is the issue of chain "suck" have to do with the SES or the fact that internal gearing of the Bosch CX motors requires such small front sprockets in comparison to the Brose, Yamaha or Shimano motors?

My Advice now that I have had a component failure.
Buy local products.
I have a Specialized dealer 20 miles away but wanted more suspension travel than the Turbo levo's have.
The nearest haibike dealer is 150 miles away.
I should have purchased a TL even though it was missing some features I wanted.

Herman


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Wish someone would do a ride report on a bike I am looking at , Luna cycles has some KHS with middrives and theay will build it just the way you want from $1700 to $4600 top of the line . And Luna has a lot of time building e bikes and are great at warranty iuess


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Luna has a lot of time building ebikes? Really? How many weeks do you consider "a lot of time" to be? 12? 16? 20? Not saying you shouldn't shop one, but this statement is an alternative fact.......

BTW I buy all my ebike motors and batteries from Luna so I am no basher........


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Think Gary has been building e bikes for years I am not sure why you say 12 weeks ?? Luna is a very well respected e bike company , I do business with them and Hi power cycles have for yrs and both will stand behind there products . Nothing alternate facts about either of them ?? If you buy your batteries and motors from Luna then why do you say 12 16 20 weeks??? that's just false . I am just saying Luna is a better deal than a $8000 Levo half the price and great customer support Luna will tune it to the way you want it .


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Sure Gary has been building bikes for years, so have I. But Luna as a company has not. They have been in the fully assembled, warrantied ebike business for only a few months. And I would not call a few months a long time. Would you?


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

highroad 2 said:


> ...
> I am not sure that I am hooked on the Haibike with the Bosch/ SES system because I have already had a catastrophic derailleur and chain failure which apparently has happened with others with the SES system and blame seems to be what is called chain "suck" in very muddy situations.
> So is the issue of chain "suck" have to do with the SES or the fact that internal gearing of the Bosch CX motors requires such small front sprockets in comparison to the Brose, Yamaha or Shimano motors?
> ...


Sorry to hear of your problems. All derailleurs+chain can experience failures in too-muddy conditions. I've had enough mud flung up that I had to stop & clean it off.

Getting back into mtbing has taught me again go around or crawl thru at very low speed to not fling it.

Not like on my dirtbikes <BRAAAP!> with fenders! 

Catfish ...


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

Hmmm&#8230; Very interesting kit. 33lb bike and motor! Battery is in backpack.






Looks like it is designed to handle the typical full suspension down tube too.


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## Robopotomus (Oct 6, 2013)

This looks very interesting.


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

Whiptastic said:


> Hmmm&#8230; Very interesting kit. 33lb bike and motor! Battery is in backpack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh-MY! Just spent several minutes at their web pages & comparability page & chart.

SC Nomad listed as OK, SC Bronson shown as "inside". The HT would need to be inside.

Well, have you made those measurements yet?!? The suspense is killing me here!

Back to the STUPID old farts ...

I didn't get a new left knee on March 3rd, because I went OTB on last mtb ride on March 1st & broke my right shoulder (ball of humerus actually). <D'OH!!!>

GAH!!! Stupid hurts! I bought a new bed to sleep in after surgery ... I can't sleep in it yet. :-(

Is that enough whine? I got lots more, but its hell typing with one hand. Grrr...

Tylenol #3s (w codeine), ibuprofin, Moxie 4:1 (CBD:THC) Tincture, and some Blue Dream are juuust getting me by. If I could just find a horny nurse.

Catfish ...


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

I must have missed that compatibility page. Will have to go check that out and report back. The motor (MY1018) and tri-level power, on/off and throttle combo switch they use are the same ones I have. Maybe they'll sell me a mounting bracket...

 
Wow! Sorry hear you let it all hang out and got it broken off. Hope you recover quickly. Heck Spring starts in five days and the word on the street is "Spring is the new Summer!" Get well soon.


If it makes you feel any better, you're not the only one going OTB.  I was testing out my new Soma B-Side V.2 Belt Drive ride without power at the beach here in The OC and La La Land. Pedaled from Huntington Beach through Sunset Beach and over to the Queen Mary in Long Beach. On the return I saw something going on over at the Long Beach Convention Center, so I rode over there to see what it was. The Outdoor Show was on its' last day. Cool!

I got all excited and thought I'd bust my hump on the downwind return ride so I could gather the crew and it the show. As I pedaled away, I turned down four tiered staircase to gain momentum to cross the hump shaped bridges going over the small lake there. When I dropped in and went to hit the seat post dropper my left thumb just waved in thin air and my butt couldn't push the seat down. Then it hit me, OH $#!%! I'm not on my full suspension Hightower with seat post dropper. I do staircases on it all the time without a hitch.

Well, I hung my butt behind the seat over the rear tire and it wasn't a good feeling or position. As I made the first drop, it was clear that that was not where I wanted to be when I hit the first flat, so I went back up higher than the seat; out of the ball crushing zone if anything went wrong.  Bump-itty, bump-itty, bump, I went down three of the tiers, but my speed was increasing. By the time I dropped down the forth flight I was getting worried I might not make that last flat hit on the cement path. Sure enough, the front wheel hesitated just enough while the front fork compressed to throw my momentum forward before releasing to roll, but it was too late. Over the handlebars I went and into tuck and roll mode without a helmet (I was on a beach cruise test ride&#8230.

I'm sure glad I learned how to fall years ago racing TT, Scrambles and Motocross. When I hit the cement it was all knees and elbows. The bike came out of it with nothing but a bent brake lever and a twisted stem on the fork post. I ended up with raspberried knees and elbows, and a ripped shirt. Whew! Close call.

The worst of it was getting up off the ground only to see I was right in front of the Shimano fishing demo area with a huge audience worthy of a successful city downhill run (ha, ha, ha&#8230. That 57 year old brain fart of not remembering what bike from my stable I was very embarrassing to say the least.


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

Downloaded, printed and cut out the LIFT-MTB template, then set the MY1018 into the CS Hightower frame triangle and positioned the template. It looks like an "inside" fit to me!










You'd have to go with their "wider" crank shaft to clear the motor freewheel sprocket though. The good thing is the Hightower already has the ISCG mounts.


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