# Double L332MC build.



## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Hey all.
I posted up my first effort on Quazzle's thread, but much like Chelboed I thought I'd start a new thread for this build. I built the last one for my brother, but I wasn't that enthused about the final result. So after being inspired by Ed's dual regina build, I did a bit of a re-design to streamline things.
Work and family commitments mean I do most of my riding at night, and I decided I wanted my lights permanently mounted on a new helmet. So far I have turned up the light-heads, and next step is to do the mounting. I'm going to put them on the visor so I can use screws. In the event of a bad crash the visor should rip off without punching anything through the helmet itself. Then the wiring will go inside the helmet to two individual switches and a plug mounted in the back of the helmet..... Well that's the plan anyway.

So, two light-heads, one XPG board and one XPE board... both MC, but individually switched. Excessive? Of course, but hey, why not? Obviously they both need to be very light weight, but I also wanted to maximize the heat sink. The fins are 1mm thick and 6mm deep. Possibly a bit close together but I think it will work.

Photo time:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Artful, B...artful!

I'm jealous!

What are you going to do for power?

You could check into those "long-C" 4000mAh cells that I used to build my last LiIon pack. 4 of those would be plenty.


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## jbflyfshr (Jul 24, 2006)

First B really nice work!!!

How will you mount them. I like them separated like car lights or something. reminds me of a version of the led hat lights also except this will be waaaaay brighter...;-)

Chelboed, what is the number for the long-C cells?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

They're at batteryspace.com...26650 LiMnNi.

4000mAh


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

They are cool batteries, but they might have some drawbacks.  
Have thought about buying them, but  this thread  has made me wary of them. 
Other long term opinions or experiences with these would be nice to hear about.:skep:


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Very nice! What's the weight on the housing?

I'd try and push them to the edge of the visor. You might get a shadow from the brim, since they are set back and sitting directly on the visor. 

You know what they say, "idle hands are the devil's tools"...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

odtexas said:


> They are cool batteries, but they might have some drawbacks.
> Have thought about buying them, but  this thread  has made me wary of them.
> Other long term opinions or experiences with these would be nice to hear about.:skep:


Yah...but since the current draw will be so low...they'll last much longer. + their really cheap!:thumbsup: The OP of that thread saw 'little, if any' difference after 32 days of use. I hope he comes back w/ a 6 mo graph.

I don't have much of a way to do all that crap, so I can just say that "such'n'such" battery powered "such'n'such" light for "so'long".


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Often a little more technical over on CPF. I am happy with the 18650 Li-ion, but these seem like a good alternative. Just wondering if anyone here has long term experience with them. 
You just got yours. But if the LiMnNi drop down to the level of a li-ion within a year and the then I would stick with the li-ion. Not saying that they do, but it was a concern.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

bshallard, Very nice where are you planning to put the driver ? 

Can I ask what quick change tool post you have on your lathe is it an A 2 Z ?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Hi guys.
To answer some questions:
I will post up pics of the mounting as it progresses, but the lights will have to stay in the channels shown. The outer channels are angled too much and I would have to mount them individually, and too high up. After buying the helmet I realized the visor was actually a very difficult shape to work with. They will share a common, tilt adjustable mount.
I don't have small scales, so I don't know what the weight is yet. I might see if the jeweller across the road has some scales I can use.
I have ordered a MagicShine battery pack and charger from Dapedealer on ebay. My weekly night rides top out at 1hr 20mins so even running full power I should get through the ride with both on, but realistically I'll only need the XPE for going downhill. If I want a longer run time it will be a simple matter to run a second pack in parallel.

Right now I'd better sit down and get some real work done. The bills won't pay themselves, and I've spent a lot of time lately stuffing about with this.

blair.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

yetibetty said:


> bshallard, Very nice where are you planning to put the driver ?
> 
> Can I ask what quick change tool post you have on your lathe is it an A 2 Z ?


Hi betty.
This is designed around Quazzle's triple XPG/XPE boards with the leds mounted on the driver.
Re the tool post, no. I have a couple of aluminium QCTPs in a drawer, but they always flex far too much for my liking, and the repeatable accuracy is crap. This one was built by some ebay seller. I could be wrong, but I think he went by the name "Fastboatfreak". I bought it in '06, so my memory may be faulty. It is made of stainless, and it has quite big pistons, so it holds the tool holders really securely and has absolutely zero flex! When I bought it I also asked him to make me several extra tool holders, which he kindly did. 
I haven't used the A2Z tool post, but I'm pretty sure this one is far superior. Lucky me eh?

b.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Sorry I read too fast and the toolpost picture took over my mind. Should have realized it was for the Quazzle board as I've already seen your gear like bezel version.

I may have to try the A2Z if I can't find better.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

impressive work, bshallard, congratulations! Looks slick


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

quazzle said:


> impressive work, bshallard, congratulations! Looks slick


Thanks Quazzle. I trust you're enjoying your holiday?

I've cobbled up a mount for it. It isn't finished, as I still need to drill and thread the underneath to fit a grub screw. When I get the tilt just right I'll do up the screw nice and tight and leave it alone. I also need to make up some longer mounting screws (which you can't see in the photos). I under-estimated how thick the plastic visor is.

I'm thinking black anodized for the mount which should help minimize its appearance, and scarlet red for the light heads.

Still don't know the weight, but I put the helmet on before rushing home from work and couldn't feel any weight from the light. I had thought maybe it would feel a bit front heavy, but it's all good.

b.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Crap!!!!! Crap, crap!!!

That's smooth, man...dayadgum!

Diggin!




How are they attached to the lateral rotary girdir...thing...there?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Crap!!!!! Crap, crap!!!
> 
> That's smooth, man...dayadgum!
> 
> ...


Thanks mate.
You mean the cross bar? Simple. I threaded each end and screwed the housings onto it. It took a bit of trimming on the lathe turning back the shoulders so when tight, the lights are both facing the same direction. Once I get it all fired up and test-ridden I will decide whether to point the XPE head slightly higher or not, and I'll secure them both with some loc-tite.

b.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Ah, but how heavy is it?*

Just paid a visit to the jewelers over the road to use their scales. My camera battery is flat, so you'll have to take my word for it, but the weight for everything so far, including mounting, is 64.8 grams.

b.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Looking very slick. Will you do the anodizing yourself or sending it off?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Are you going to try to hold a battery up w/ your steroid enhanced neck (LOL) or will you be dropping a battery in the ol' Camelbak?

What is your plan for a battery anyhoo?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

yetibetty said:


> Looking very slick. Will you do the anodizing yourself or sending it off?


While it's tempting to play around with the anodizing, I have neither the space nor the inclination to have a container of sulphuric acid sitting around in the workshop, and there's no way in hades that my wife is going to let me have one at home either. So I'll let the professionals handle this one.

b.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Are you going to try to hold a battery up w/ your steroid enhanced neck (LOL) or will you be dropping a battery in the ol' Camelbak?
> 
> What is your plan for a battery anyhoo?


Got me a couple of MagicShine batteries, chargers and cables off ebay. One each for me and my brother. I'm thinking if I don't get the run-time I want out of one, I can always hook up another in parallel. I will either put the battery in my camelbak or in my shorts pocket. I'm just trying to figure out my switch arrangement at the moment. I bought a couple of small toggle switches, but couldn't get the water resistant cover to go with them, but now I'm thinking about maybe something more like what you made with the tiny push switches. Being in New Zealand isn't helping there. I went to Jaycar this morning but the guy I was dealing with there didn't know his.....:skep: well you know. Gonna saunter up to another electronics shop when I get some lunch... right about now in fact.

b.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

bshallard said:


> While it's tempting to play around with the anodizing, I have neither the space nor the inclination to have a container of sulphuric acid sitting around in the workshop, and there's no way in hades that my wife is going to let me have one at home either. So I'll let the professionals handle this one.
> 
> b.


It's not that bad. Plus you have a fire extiguisher hanging there in the back ground. That tells me you are prepared for excitement.

It is alot of small supplies and anodizing gets as addictive as building. Lots of colors out there to try out.

Keep up the very nice builds.....


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

According to the tests by Quazzle...I'd venture to speculate around 1.2-1.5hrs on a MS battery.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

chelboed said:


> According to the tests by Quazzle...I'd venture to speculate around 1.2-1.5hrs on a MS battery.


That's about what I figured. I'm switching them individually so I don't have to run full power all the time. Not really much point having 2000 odd lumens going uphill eh? Of course Cosmoworks might care to disagree on that point.

b.


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## cosmoworks (Jan 22, 2008)

^^ Nah I'll agree with you. But only for the sake of conserving run-time. 

odtexas is spot in. Anodizing is really easier than you think. There are some trick's to the trade, but the general process is worth giving it a shot. Awesome lights, and surface finishes you're getting off the small lathe.. props!!


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Love the revolver cylinder flutes! Sorry if I missed it in another thread, but what lathe/mill are you using?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Thanks for the comments. 
The lathe is a long-bed Sherline, and the mill is a Taig with Sherline CNC rotary table. Both American made units, and very, very capable machines for their size. My only beef is that Taig don't offer a metric option, which would make my life so much easier. I also have a Beale Tools collet closer on the Sherline using Chinese ER32 collets. I can hold up to 20mm diameter parts, and the extra length of the closer allows me to hold reasonably long parts that otherwise would not go through the bore of the lathe headstock. The only problem is that the closer cantilevers a long way off the headstock and compromises rigidity.
Regarding surface finish, well I'm using Rapid-Tap aluminum cutting fluid, and a replaceable carbide lathe tip optimized for aluminum, which both help make a smooth cut. Then I finish it with the remains of a worn out satin finish buff, normally used for graining watch cases and bracelets. It is very like scotch-bright but much finer. Truth told I was surprised how nice a finish I was getting.

Edit: Just realized what .40AET meant by revolver cylinder flutes. Yeah, they are just cosmetic, and I hadn't made the revolver connection until you pointed it out. I was just trying to break up the roundness of the design.
b.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Time for a thread bump.*

I've been wondering about the wiring for a while, and although I'm sure some will accuse me of buggering up my thermal path, I've decided to run the wire straight down the middle and out the back of the housing. I reckon the thermal path will be fine, and this way just works out so darn tidy. I had been wracking my brains to come up with a tidy switching system to mount at the back of the helmet, and finally decided on the trail-tech inline switch from batteryspace. I had been putting off any purchases from batteryspace because of the shipping charges,(US$50) but my employee has a friend coming from the States in two weeks, so he can bring them. Anyway, playing around with a Magicshine extension lead I found that drilling 3.5mm allowed a very tight fit of the cable housing. With a bit of silicone spray I can eventually push it through the bore, and that takes care of both water resistance and strain relief.
As you can see from the pictures, I have milled out slots with just enough room for the inner wires to lay underneath the led board and surface in the right place. The last photo shows all the pieces together. Tomorrow it goes off for anodizing.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Back from the anodizers.*

Got my stuff back from the anodizers this morning. In a way I kind of miss the bare alloy look, but I'm still pretty pleased with the overall appearance..


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Looking great and there had to be some watch parts involved 

I think I'll have to have my next build anodized


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Quick Q...why two lenses per barrel?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Um, lense and O ring?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Oh, and looks good baby shallard


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Quick Q...why two lenses per barrel?


There aren't. There is a lens and a nylon seal per barrel. I have machined in a seating for the seal, and the lens is a press fit into that seal.... exactly like a watch, since Yetibetty is right, and they are watch parts. I will use thermal grease rather than adhesive on the boards,drop in the optics, and then press the lens in on top of them. This should make for an easy upgrade path when Quazzle updates his boards with whatever super duper leds Cree introduces next. To remove the lenses I will have to super-glue something to them and pull them out. Should be easy enough.

b.


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## bravellir (Nov 24, 2008)

Looks great. If those "revolver" things were silver it would be pimp


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

Great looking lights. Do the seals get glued to the body of the light and then the watch crystals pressed into the seals?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

HuffyPuffy said:


> Great looking lights. Do the seals get glued to the body of the light and then the watch crystals pressed into the seals?


No need. This works the same as a watch. The seal sits in a machined seating, and the glass pushes into the seal. The seals are designed a fraction over-thickness so the glass is a tight press fit. Watches with over 200m water resistance use exactly this system.


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## cmacclel (Dec 23, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Yah...but since the current draw will be so low...they'll last much longer. + their really cheap!:thumbsup: The OP of that thread saw 'little, if any' difference after 32 days of use. I hope he comes back w/ a 6 mo graph.
> 
> I don't have much of a way to do all that crap, so I can just say that "such'n'such" battery powered "such'n'such" light for "so'long".


I did graph the cells again and it showed if I recall correctly a 300mah loss but at $12 a cell nothing beats in in capacity right now.

Mac


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Excellent!


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Following a phone conversation this afternoon I've put up a cad drawing with the exact measurements of my design. Maybe no-one will, and that will be fine, but if anyone wants to use it, then go right ahead. Most of it is pretty basic and can be done on the lathe, except for the flutes which are just cosmetic anyway. Just remember this is an as-yet untested design.


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## Bobblehat (Dec 1, 2007)

Nice diagram ..... and very nice looking design, both anodized and plain!

Sorry to add to questions about the way the watch glass seals work, but this seems such a neat method that I think it's important that I understand the way it works fully. I don't know anything about watch glasses!



bshallard said:


> No need. This works the same as a watch. The seal sits in a machined seating, and the glass pushes into the seal. The seals are designed a fraction over-thickness so the glass is a tight press fit. Watches with over 200m water resistance use exactly this system.


I noticed in the shot with the watch glass packet that it says 20 0 x 0.8 (or 20.0 x 0.8?), so does this size seal fit exactly in a 21mm recess, or is it a little loose at first? Does the glass sort of squash the sealing ring out to fill out the 21mm fully and there is just friction holding everything in place? If so, this seems slightly easier than machining a groove for an o-ring, like chelboed did (and others).

Because the glass watch parts and seal are so small, and we can't see the profile of the seal it's hard to see exactly how the two parts fit together ........ any chance of a simple detail diagram of just the metal, seal, glass interface area? Please!


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Bobblehat the numbering on the packets don't bother with decimal points, so yes, it means 20.0mm x 0.8mm. The seals are sized to fit a 21mm seating exactly. Following this method means being able to machine close to a hundredth of a mm accuracy, but that is well within the capabilities of most lathes and as long as your set-up is rigid it shouldn't be too difficult. The glass and seal are chamfered at the edges and the glass is a tight press fit.... probably about .03-.05mm interference fit. You do have to be very careful to press the glass in straight. I won't be able to use my usual glass press for this one, so I will probably use the tailstock ram on my lathe as a makeshift press when the time comes. As stated before, once in, the glasses will be quite difficult to remove. I think gluing something to them and pulling them out will work, but if not I can always shatter them with a centre punch... possibly damaging the optics in the process. 
I wanted to do it this way because it I could make it super-clean in appearance, with as small a diameter housing as possible and with no retaining clips or seals obscuring the edge of the optics. I am supplying another local DIYer with glasses and seals, but if you're outside New Zealand, then you'll need to find yourself a watchmaker.

Here's the close-up you asked for.
Edit: I never drew in the chamfers on the glass or seal..... Try to imagine them.


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## Bobblehat (Dec 1, 2007)

Thanks for that bshallard .... I can see clearly how it works now.


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

Thanks for the diagrams, this is a really cool idea which I'd imagine would work just as well if the glass were pushed in from the back, into a faceplate. I had been considering using o-rings or making my own o-rings for a design, but o-rings take up a good deal of real estate which these watch crystal seals would not. 

I'll have to take a close look at my seiko diver next time I get it out and see if I can see the seal around the edge.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

HuffyPuffy said:


> Thanks for the diagrams, this is a really cool idea which I'd imagine would work just as well if the glass were pushed in from the back, into a faceplate. I had been considering using o-rings or making my own o-rings for a design, but o-rings take up a good deal of real estate which these watch crystal seals would not.
> 
> I'll have to take a close look at my seiko diver next time I get it out and see if I can see the seal around the edge.


Pushing into a faceplate from the back was my first idea.... see Quazzle's thread. I think it would work on a lot of designs. You probably won't see the seal on your dive watch. The bezel will be clipped on over the top of the seal. You should see it on almost any other water resistant watch though. This is the standard system for holding in the glass. Occasionally they use glue instead, but only on dress watches not designed to get wet, or cheap fashion watches.

b.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

bshallard said:


> ... Just remember this is an as-yet untested design.


My four R5 MC triples arrived in the country yesterday (thank you Q!). I'll send two of them up to you as soon as they arrive. Those babies need to be tested!


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Mark2c said:


> My four R5 MC triples arrived in the country yesterday (thank you Q!). I'll send two of them up to you as soon as they arrive. Those babies need to be tested!


Woohoo! Thanks mate!

I just got off the phone with my supplier. As I suspected, they didn't have many sapphire glasses in stock, but four will be with you in a couple of day and the rest are on back-order.

Ole.
b.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

bshallard said:


> I will use thermal grease rather than adhesive on the boards,drop in the optics, and then press the lens in on top of them.


First of all - great design! Wish I had the tools and skills do to this..

I'm sure this is paranoia talking, but:
Regarding fastening the board to the heatsink: Wouldn't it be best to have a (small) preload between the board and the heatsink if they're not glued together, to ensure proper contact? 
Assuming of course that the lens is just held in place by the nylon seal, and not pushed towards the optic..


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

langen said:


> First of all - great design! Wish I had the tools and skills do to this..
> 
> I'm sure this is paranoia talking, but:
> Regarding fastening the board to the heatsink: Wouldn't it be best to have a (small) preload between the board and the heatsink if they're not glued together, to ensure proper contact?
> Assuming of course that the lens is just held in place by the nylon seal, and not pushed towards the optic..


Incorrect assumption. The lens is pushed hard up against the optic. Look closely at the close-up diagram. The bore for the board and optic is very slightly oversize. The dotted line marks the 20mm point. Without the optics in place the lens would push right past the seal and rattle around inside that cavity. It'll all be nice and tight in there.

b.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

I understand that the lens has a tight fit towards the optic when it is installed, but I can't see how the lens can exert a force in the horizontal direction on the optic, after it is installed?

But - as long as the lens doesn't move out again, it will, as you say, stay nice and tight in there :thumbsup: 

Again - not trying to discredit your design or anything, but being an engineer, I tend to over-analyse things...


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

langen said:


> I understand that the lens has a tight fit towards the optic when it is installed, but I can't see how the lens can exert a force in the horizontal direction on the optic, after it is installed?
> 
> But - as long as the lens doesn't move out again, it will, as you say, stay nice and tight in there :thumbsup:
> 
> Again - not trying to discredit your design or anything, but being an engineer, I tend to over-analyse things...


I think I understand. The lens shouldn't move outwards. The nylon seals don't have much elasticity, so there shouldn't be any over-forming when I push in the glass. Quite a few watch case-backs (think Tissot, Longines and Omega) push on with the same system and they don't work themselves out, even with very old seals. If I think it will be any sort of problem I have left myself the option of dropping in a .3 or .4mm rubber o-ring around the edge of the optic to form an elastic cushion. However, I think it will be unnecessary, as the viscosity of the thermal grease should create a certain amount of pre-load anyway.

I was questioned the other day about heat build-up inside the light body exerting pressure on the glass to push it out. There would need to be a LOT of heat to produce that much pressure, and it would escape down the inside of the cable housing anyway.

I think I have covered all my bases, but of course getting it all finished and running will be the acid test. We'll see eh?

b.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

Hi B, do you have any plans to move from two MCs to one MC and one slave per http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=7041869&postcount=632 ? This would require a single conductor linking the two boards.

These are the waterproof momentary switches I mentioned: http://www.ebikestop.com/cat_eye_remote_button_for_double_wireless-CY1208.php?cat=782


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Mark2c said:


> Hi B, do you have any plans to move from two MCs to one MC and one slave per http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=7041869&postcount=632 ? This would require a single conductor linking the two boards.
> 
> These are the waterproof momentary switches I mentioned: http://www.ebikestop.com/cat_eye_remote_button_for_double_wireless-CY1208.php?cat=782


Nah, as cool as those features are, I can't be bothered faffing about with them. I don't need any strobes or fades. I'll keep the light heads switched individually so I can turn one off when I'm climbing, and the 20% mode is useful for putting the bike back on the rack post ride. That about covers my needs .


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

Ah, two separate switches! Good plan.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

bshallard said:


> The nylon seals don't have much elasticity, so there shouldn't be any over-forming when I push in the glass.


:thumbsup:


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the 'Revolver'.*

Well thanks to Mark2c's outlandish generosity, this morning I received two XGP boards and optics by courier. Quazzle, you are indeed The Man! They slotted into the housings just perfectly, and with the optics in place the height was just perfect for the nylon seals and sapphire crystals. Everything worked exactly how I had it in my head.... I love it when a plan comes together. 
I was going to wait until I got the wires with in-line switches in a week or two, but then I thought "sod that. Let's get things going." It does mean that I will have to splice some wires to fit the switches but what the hell. At the moment each light plugs directly into a separate battery.
Sitting at room temperature with no airflow they heat up a lot, but that was expected. With airflow they should be sweet. I'll try to give them a bit of a trail-test late tonight maybe.

Enough talk. I know you want the photos:

Edit: Just so this is clearly understood, in image 4 I am using the tailstock ram to press the glass into the nylon seal. The ziploc bag is there to prevent the three jaw chuck from marring the finish. Very useful things, those bags.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

B, awesome.
Do you have manufacturers datasheets available for the seal and crystal glass? Links or pdf would be great.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Very nice man...very nice!


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## fujio001 (Nov 2, 2007)

Wanted to confirm one thing, with the L332MC board vs the straight L332, what type of clicky switch would be needed to allow the light go through its different modes?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Mark2c said:


> B, awesome.
> Do you have manufacturers datasheets available for the seal and crystal glass? Links or pdf would be great.


Thanks Mark2c.
I've never seen a data sheet for this type of watch component, so can't be much help there. Apparently this size seal is now discontinued too, and a slimmer one being produced, so the seating size may have to be revised or larger diameter lenses used.... which may mean going to a regular mineral glass. I'll see what other suppliers can do.

b.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

fujio001 said:


> Wanted to confirm one thing, with the L332MC board vs the straight L332, what type of clicky switch would be needed to allow the light go through its different modes?


It is the MC version. There are two options:
1) an on-off two state switch interrupting the power supply to the light and 
2) a momentary switch.

These pics from Q's manual say it all, but the full manual says even more... http://lux-rc.com/content/showcase/L30/L332PCB-EN-160710.pdf.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

bshallard said:


> Thanks Mark2c.
> I've never seen a data sheet for this type of watch component, so can't be much help there. Apparently this size seal is now discontinued too, and a slimmer one being produced, so the seating size may have to be revised or larger diameter lenses used.... which may mean going to a regular mineral glass. I'll see what other suppliers can do.
> b.


Thanks B,

Sounds like this is the next challenge.

I'm keen to produce a standard drawing and bill of materials so that anyone can produce their own lights easily (ie use the drawing to get someone to manufacture the light body).

Thanks for checking up on this with your other suppliers.


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## Bobblehat (Dec 1, 2007)

Pictures 3,4 & 5 ..... it all comes together in pictures :thumbsup: 

Brilliant Mr B :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:


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## cmacclel (Dec 23, 2005)

Awesome work! I have a few projects in mind for the L332MC and have a few on order but it appears they are a couple weeks out  If anyone has one they can spare please PM me!

Is the lens just a press fit?

Mac


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## ozlongboarder (Jan 12, 2004)

Fantastic work! 

Eager to see some beam shots :thumbsup:


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

cmacclel said:


> Is the lens just a press fit?
> 
> Mac


Correct.

And thanks for all the kind words people. The weather sucked last night and I couldn't be bothered getting wet and cold, so beam shots will have to wait. I did take it out on the balcony and shine it around and things looked good.


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## RussS (Jul 18, 2006)

Da-aum, I am drooling here :thumbsup:


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

ozlongboarder said:


> Fantastic work!
> Eager to see some beam shots :thumbsup:


Agree, it's really slick! Congratulations, B., you've got very efficient and simple design - single machined part. The implementation is also excellent!

As for beamshots, here you are. The last one is made using overready V3 drop-in which uses single-mode L332 triple (keep it secret )








https://www.oveready.com/led-light-...-single-level-drop-in-3-5-9-5v-/prod_163.html

























and finally Oveready V3 - L332


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## mns (Aug 23, 2007)

excellent job. looks very profesional.
Just a quick question. How do you charge the batteries?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

mns said:


> excellent job. looks very profesional.
> Just a quick question. How do you charge the batteries?


Thanks.

MagicShine batteries and chargers from ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Replacement-Cha...ltDomain_0&hash=item3ef9fe4361#ht_1338wt_1139

b.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

quazzle said:


> Agree, it's really slick! Congratulations, B., you've got very efficient and simple design - single machined part. The implementation is also excellent!
> 
> As for beamshots, here you are. The last one is made using overready V3 drop-in which uses single-mode L332 triple (keep it secret )


Thanks Quazzle.
I'm going to be quite interested to see what you come up with for housings for these. Focusable lens? That would be cool.

I had a look at the Oveready website. They mention possible eye damage from looking at the lights while running, or setting fire to close up objects with them because of the heat. Not an exaggeration I suspect.

I loaned my new set-up to my brother for the weekend as he is visiting our parents in the mtb mecca of Rotorua. I told him to go and do some product testing. I think he has a digital SLR which I don't, so hopefully I can get him to do post up a couple of beam-shots and maybe some riding impressions.
My wife was pretty surprised at that, as I've been obsessed with this thing for quite a while now and I haven't ridden with it yet. But I needed to get it out of the workshop so I can concentrate on the massive backlog of work. I've been as easily distracted as a kitten lately.

Mark2c is talking about making up an open source CAD file to allow anyone to have one of these made up. I'm wondering if there would be any demand for light-head and lens combos if I was to get some CNC'd. I am thinking they might be quite popular on the local market. I don't particularly want to go into production of completed lights, but not everyone has access to a lathe, and of course bulk production will bring the price down.

b.


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## RussS (Jul 18, 2006)

Holy crap  - *I WANT*  :thumbsup:


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*The proof in the pudding.*

Well, the Revolver has had three outings now; its first one perched atop my own noggin tonight. The weather was pretty manky, and the forest dark and dripping, with light rain at times.... The kind of night which sucks at your lights and makes you wonder if your battery pack is going south on you. Everything on the ground was wet which makes it appear darker and details were hard to pick up. Perfect test conditions in other words. We had a gang of seven out tonight and an air of anticipation about my new lights. I've been talking about them for months and I don't think anyone actually believed I was going to come up with anything. So how did they go?

Pretty damn well actually.

I was sporting about three times as much light as anyone else in the group. Riders definitely knew if I was behind them. I left both light heads on full for the duration, and my main concern was whether they were going to overheat. Nope. After stopping for a couple of minutes at one point I could feel some warmth through my gloves but they quickly cooled down again once moving. At the end of the ride I whipped off my gloves and they were merely warm to the touch. Sweet. As for light output and beam pattern, I would have to say I'm very satisfied. For singletrack speeds it was absolutely adequate, even on a night like this. I like the spread from the XPG / narrow optic combo. You don't need to turn your head to see your line options but when my own boards arrive I will change one of them out for an XPE board, just to get a bit more throw.

Sorry, no beam-shots at this time. My riding buddies aren't the types to wait patiently while I muck about with a camera. "It's Wednesday.... Business Time."

So, all in all, very satisfied. I do have one major problem now though. I've been unanimously elected as official light supplier to the group.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Changed to one XP-E.*

I just received my own boards from Quazzle, so I have changed out one of my XP-G boards for an XPE board as per original plan. I haven't had it out on the trail yet, but playing around in the workshop I shot the photos below. First one shows the distinct difference in intensity of the XP-E as opposed to the spread of the XP-G. I'm thinking this will be a great improvement, and I may yet even change to two XP-E heads for helmet mounting.

XPG on the left.

b.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

Those will both be with the 16 degree optics (comment, not a question!).

Looks good - I'd be very happy with one of each me thinks (flood and narrow - best of both worlds).

Looks great B.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Very nice!


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Time for some Beam-shots.*

Right. First evening in a while that it wasn't raining and I could be bothered taking the camera to the local park. Followed the usual MTBR camera settings. I don't have a full length tripod, so I had to use one of those little flexi-leg ones and try to lash it to a tree to keep the camera still.... so the angle maybe isn't the best. But you get the idea anyway.

All shot at full power, sequence XP-G, then XP-E, then BOTH.

(The XP-E in trees shot I guess I pointed it too low, so not a great indicator of what it was really doing. In practice I think the XP-E is the better one for helmet mounting if you are only going to use one. It also has a noticeably yellower tint.


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## brianbear (Feb 5, 2010)

*more?*

The question is; are you willing to take an order for a duplicate setup of your housings?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Lots more.*



brianbear said:


> The question is; are you willing to take an order for a duplicate setup of your housings?


YES.

Soon anyway. I've made another 10 for friends, and I've designed a universal mount to hold either one or two light heads. Unfortunately the mount is incredibly expensive to produce, so I'm doing a re-design. I should have some samples by the end of the week. I'm also doing some testing on batteries and switches/plugs/cables.

When I'm happy with it all I'll be doing an introductory production run of 100 pieces (full system.) When that is done I will purchase an ad here and promote them around the net etc. I'll also send a set to Francois for him to review.

Send me a PM if you are interested and I'll prioritize you when the lights are ready.

Otherwise, watch this space.

b.


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## wriggle (May 12, 2010)

OMG!! :eekster:

Congratulations for your work.. I'll keep my eyes on this thread for now on!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

bshallard said:


> YES.
> 
> Soon anyway. I've made another 10 for friends, and I've designed a universal mount to hold either one or two light heads. Unfortunately the mount is incredibly expensive to produce, so I'm doing a re-design. I should have some samples by the end of the week. I'm also doing some testing on batteries and switches/plugs/cables.
> 
> ...


So who is Francios?
What kind of pricing are you looking at?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

chelboed said:


> So who is Francios?
> What kind of pricing are you looking at?


My bad... Francis.

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/category/lights-shootout/

Haven't decided pricing yet. Depends on the battery and so-on.

b.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

bshallard said:


> chelboed said:
> 
> 
> > So who is Francios?
> ...


You had it right the first time... 
Francios is the founder and admin of MTBR.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Wednesday Night Woodhill from Blair Shallard on Vimeo.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Wow! Thanks for posting!
Is this that double or single?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

quazzle said:


> Wow! Thanks for posting!
> Is this that double or single?


That is using my double as shown in the thread. Currently using 2 XPE boards, but going to change one back to an XPG... It's nice to have the extra flood in tight single track.

b.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Progress.*

So I've told everyone that I'll be making some more of these, but in the mean time I've been doing a bit of testing, and done a small batch of ten light heads for my riding buddies. So far, so good. I've also got some of the new Magicshine batteries to play with.... Not sure whether to run with these and MS cables etc or try for something more sophisticated. The upside of MS stuff is that it is cheap, and will keep the price of the build down. I'm trying to lure buyers who would otherwise by MS after all. 
I have two of the latest MS battery housings made for frame mounting, and with digital readout, but with li-po cells in them. It's noticeably lighter than the li-ion pack and does seem to last longer... Haven't quantified exactly how long yet... but I will. It works well on the frame too. Straps on tight and stays put, even over some quite big jumps.
Last night I went out with this set-up on the bars. The cabling is a bit of a mess as I wired it for helmet mounting, but it worked well. Running somewhere up approaching 4k lumens makes a difference, but didn't impress my buddies if I was behind them.
We're well into spring now, and with the warmer temps I've been able to see how the thermal management works. No problem at all. They get warm but not hot when moving.

I'm now looking into a new switch to access the advanced features.

Comments? Thoughts on how upmarket to go on the batteries?... baring in mind that I have to buy in bulk to make the price work.

b.


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## bravellir (Nov 24, 2008)

I like the ms battery route. A lot of guys already have those batteries.


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## RussS (Jul 18, 2006)

I think the MS batteries are a pretty decent option. Have been running them on several rebuilds I have done and have not really had too many issues with them. Got one of the new version batteries and it fits one bike really well and another not so good. Dropped it into an old bottle that I cut the top off and put it in a bottle cage and all was good.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm finishing L333 board now, with the new firmware there's no need in a power switch. All functions, including on/off is accessible with a single low-current momentary. The full list of new features is listed here -> http://lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/L333


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

quazzle said:


> I'm finishing L333 board now, with the new firmware there's no need in a power switch. All functions, including on/off is accessible with a single low-current momentary. The full list of new features is listed here -> http://lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/L333


That will be very very very helpful.

b.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

quazzle said:


> I'm finishing L333 board now, with the new firmware there's no need in a power switch. All functions, including on/off is accessible with a single low-current momentary. The full list of new features is listed here -> http://lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/L333


I was close to putting together an order for L332 but realized I really wanted the features of the L333 so have been holding off. Any idea when you'll have them available for order?


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## brianbear (Feb 5, 2010)

bshallard said:


> So I've told everyone that I'll be making some more of these, but in the mean time I've been doing a bit of testing, and done a small batch of ten light heads for my riding buddies. So far, so good. I've also got some of the new Magicshine batteries to play with.... Not sure whether to run with these and MS cables etc or try for something more sophisticated. The upside of MS stuff is that it is cheap, and will keep the price of the build down. I'm trying to lure buyers who would otherwise by MS after all.
> I have two of the latest MS battery housings made for frame mounting, and with digital readout, but with li-po cells in them. It's noticeably lighter than the li-ion pack and does seem to last longer... Haven't quantified exactly how long yet... but I will. It works well on the frame too. Straps on tight and stays put, even over some quite big jumps.
> Last night I went out with this set-up on the bars. The cabling is a bit of a mess as I wired it for helmet mounting, but it worked well. Running somewhere up approaching 4k lumens makes a difference, but didn't impress my buddies if I was behind them.
> We're well into spring now, and with the warmer temps I've been able to see how the thermal management works. No problem at all. They get warm but not hot when moving.
> ...


I'll take two sets, with or without batteries as I can get Lipo's or LiFe easy.

PM me with a price SOON plzkthnx...........


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Beautiful work on your lights.:thumbsup: they look fantastic

The L333 is looking like a pretty good board. One problem with a separate driver board is needing more housing components which inevitably increase machining costs. The single momentary switch to power up and cycle through power levels will be excellent. I think the L333 will be the base for my next build.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Excellent, brad!.This is another strong incentive for me. I've almost finished with it


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

quazzle said:


> Excellent, brad!.This is another strong incentive for me. I've almost finished with it


Hope work on the '777' is going well as well Q!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Mark2c said:


> Hope work on the '777' is going well as well Q!


yes. but... the 7up was nearly ready but it failed all tests with KHATOD (PL1211) optic. I'm quite disappointed with its performance and radiation pattern. I completely relied on the KHATOD's technical specifications but hardly could expect this failure.

So I'm of the fence again looking for good optic for muli-LED designs.


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## Giant-Lander (Feb 13, 2009)

quazzle said:


> yes. but... the 7up was nearly ready but it failed all tests with KHATOD (PL1211) optic. I'm quite disappointed with its performance and radiation pattern. I completely relied on the KHATOD's technical specifications but hardly could expect this failure.
> 
> So I'm of the fence again looking for good optic for muli-LED designs.


Serge, what do you mean by that? I've tried the optic and many others have built lights based on it and the narrow option looks good. No artifacts, no rings (almost), nice throw and spill for riding........Would you like to comment more?

What about the regina-compatible and 25mm boards?


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

quazzle said:


> yes. but... the 7up was nearly ready but it failed all tests with KHATOD (PL1211) optic. I'm quite disappointed with its performance and radiation pattern. I completely relied on the KHATOD's technical specifications but hardly could expect this failure.
> 
> So I'm of the fence again looking for good optic for muli-LED designs.


I may help here:

Because we also noticed the lack of throw from the Kathod Optic, so we searched and found one with a reasonable better beam from Polymer!  
It is a bit pricier but who cares if you can get a better beam! :eekster:

With this Optic

available here:
http://de.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6656539#

and:
http://de.futureelectronics.com/de/technologies/semiconductors/lighting-solutions/optics/multiple-led-optics/Seiten/8085474-261.aspx

Beamshots:


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Whitedog1 said:


> I may help here:
> 
> Because we also noticed the lack of throw from the Kathod Optic, so we searched and found one with a reasonable better beam from Polymer!
> It is a bit pricier but who cares if you can get a better beam! :eekster:
> ...


Very interesting to finally see an alternative to the Khatod optics. I've tried the Khatod narrow and medium 7 up optics and while the medium optics have a lot less artifacts than the narrow, there is a significant loss in throw that makes for a tough decision.

Clearly from those beamshots the Polymers provide a more spot beam, but I wouldn't say the throw is dramatically improved. Is it more noticeable in real life?

Still I wouldn't mind giving these a shot in my current Troutie 7up builds, but I see they are slightly taller by about .75mm so that could present some challenges.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

These Beamshots were not made by me, but the photographer said that the Polymer optics just provide the extra throw the Kathod couldn'd deliver with just the same spill!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Giant-Lander said:


> Serge, what do you mean by that? I've tried the optic and many others have built lights based on it and the narrow option looks good. No artifacts, no rings (almost), nice throw and spill for riding........Would you like to comment more?


I didn't mean to discourage you guys, that's the point why I'll have to double check it again, but in my test 15mm NJC narrow (10 deg) KHATOD lenses provided less lux intensity in the hotspot center compared even with CARCLO 10mm 20deg which provides much wider FWHM. Yes, KHATOD NJC may do a narrower beam out of XP-G, but the losses are excessive.

Unfortunately I didn't find the raytracing diagrams of their NJC technology but using a concave dispersing lens in the basis looks strange to me. It seems a "classic" TIR design shown on the pic below works better and wastes less:












Giant-Lander said:


> What about the regina-compatible and 25mm boards?


Regina reflector is gorgeous, really, so the dual-XPG remains in the pipeline.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

I've ordered some of the Polymer Optics 7up clusters lenses to see how they will work with my Troutie 7up lights. Future electronics has them for $8 and change which is cheaper than Khatod 7up lense.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

interested to hear your opinion about these when you have tested it! 
Keep us postet!


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

kwarwick said:


> I've ordered some of the Polymer Optics 7up clusters lenses to see how they will work with my Troutie 7up lights. Future electronics has them for $8 and change which is cheaper than Khatod 7up lense.


Do they sell a 7-up board as well for those optics? Their search is weird and I can't find one.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

gticlay said:


> Do they sell a 7-up board as well for those optics? Their search is weird and I can't find one.


Not that I know of... the only two sources for 7-up boards I'm aware of are Cutter and LED-Tech.de (http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Power-LEDs-Cree/CREE-Solutions-c_120_117.html)


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Received and install the Polymer 6 degree optics yesterday in my Troutie 7-up with cree xp-e emitters. BIG BIG improvement over the Khatod narrow optics. Those beam shots are pretty accurate but in person the difference is quite a bit more obvious... whereas before the beam was quite floody I'd say it is more spot light like now with just the right amount of spill... more like a SST50 or SST90 beam-shot. Just trying it in my back yard last night I could appreciate how much better it was at lighting up the neighborhood trees with a nice big spot. I'll give it a real test on a night ride this evening.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

kwarwick said:


> Received and install the Polymer 6 degree optics yesterday in my Troutie 7-up with cree xp-e emitters. BIG BIG improvement over the Khatod narrow optics. Those beam shots are pretty accurate but in person the difference is quite a bit more obvious... whereas before the beam was quite floody I'd say it is more spot light like now with just the right amount of spill... more like a SST50 or SST90 beam-shot. Just trying it in my back yard last night I could appreciate how much better it was at lighting up the neighborhood trees with a nice big spot. I'll give it a real test on a night ride this evening.


Very cool. You didn't happen to measure the total height? I think I have 12.7mm. So I'm probably going with the quiccpower driver/7-up board and that new optic. They don't seem to have the non driver boards on cutter in stock afaict.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

The optics are a bit taller than Khatod, as per the specs... about .8mm taller I believe. This does create a bit of a challenge mounting in the Troutie case as it was very clearly machined exactly for the Khatod optics. With the Polymer optics the lexan cover and aluminum retainer sits a bit higher than before. I haven't decided the best solution, but I'm thinking a spacer to sit behind the lexan would work. If I had the equipment to do so, machining the bottom of the cavity that the LED and optics sit in would be the best solution.

To answer your question, I didn't measure total stack height of board and optics since the LED board was already installed and not easily removed. Cutter's 7 up board is 1.6mm high and the Polymer optics you can get the height from their specs.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Supposed to be a total height of 13.85


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Is the polymer a straight fit on the 7 up board inc the mounting holes
funny I looked at that optic ages ago but never got round to ordering one .

You have now made me order a couple to have a play with .


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> Is the polymer a straight fit on the 7 up board inc the mounting holes
> funny I looked at that optic ages ago but never got round to ordering one .
> 
> You have now made me order a couple to have a play with .


Almost indentical... a couple of differences of note are the locating pins that protrude into the 7 up board are a smaller diameter so there is some vagueness to the fit. I'm thinking some heat-shrink tubing could take up that slack. The pins are also slightly shorter which is actually good because you don't need to trim them down as is required with the Khatod optics.

This is the one I ordered:

http://www.polymer-optics.co.uk/261%20-%206%20Degree%207%20Cell%20XP-E%20Optic.pdf

I just noticed this "Concentrator" optics that looks interesting but I guess is meant for close up use:

http://www.polymer-optics.co.uk/263%20-%207%20Cell%20Concentrator%20XP-E%20Optic.pdf

Definitely like to hear your opinion on them... perhaps you might come up with a better solution to adjust for the increased height issue. Polymer Optics is located right in Berkshire, so you can support the local economy too!

Karl


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Is the polymer a straight fit on the 7 up board inc the mounting holes
> funny I looked at that optic ages ago but never got round to ordering one .
> 
> You have now made me order a couple to have a play with .


spec sheet sayd 14.9 dia hole circle... what is it on the boards?


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

right, that's the diameter of the circle the 3 holes for the locating pins are on. But the actual diameter of those holes is where the mis-match with the Polymer Optics locating pins occurs. Khatod has it exactly right, Polymer has made their pins narrower for whatever reason.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

kwarwick said:


> . Polymer Optics is located right in Berkshire, so you can support the local economy too!
> 
> Karl


Yeah right you paid $8 I pay £8 or $12.62


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> Yeah right you paid $8 I pay £8 or $12.62


I'm sure we could work something out there if you decided you needed a quantity of them.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Is the polymer a straight fit on the 7 up board inc the mounting holes
> funny I looked at that optic ages ago but never got round to ordering one .
> 
> You have now made me order a couple to have a play with .


Troutie - have you tried these yet? I have those and some BOOM's for another project on the way from future electronics. STILL waiting for my 7-up board


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

gticlay said:


> Troutie - have you tried these yet? I have those and some BOOM's for another project on the way from future electronics. STILL waiting for my 7-up board


No not yet order got cocked up by me but am now waiting for some from Led tech de

anyone got beamshots from the xpg cute triple ss


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*New 333 upgrade. Question re XPE RGB*

Hey all.
So as soon as Quazzle got the 333 boards up for sale I bought a couple to upgrade my helmet and get rid of the inline switch.

I bought an XPE board with the red/blue/green combo, not because I wanted it particularly, but I don't think I read the specs properly.

After a first ride with it, I have some observations and questions.
It seems like there is a lot less overall light output, but this might be because the RGB combo strips all the yellow out the beam. The terrain looked color accurate (if that makes any sense) and I thought it might be helping with depth perception, as each color seems to have a different focal point.... or something. Up close I get a noticeable rainbow shadow effect which takes a bit of getting used to, but I think it might be quite a good use of the available light. I tried to take a quick photo but the camera wasn't picking up the effect.

Can anyone offer some expert opinion on this? Quazzle?

b.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

Damn Blair, looks like you picked up the wrong option.

The new XPE-R5 leds look the schnitz to me though. As soon as he has the under-volts warning/cutoff going I'm in!


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Mark2c said:


> Damn Blair, looks like you picked up the wrong option.
> 
> The new XPE-R5 leds look the schnitz to me though. As soon as he has the under-volts warning/cutoff going I'm in!


Mark yours is the first positive comment I've read about the XPE-R5. I've read other comments to the effect that they won't be any use in exterior lighting.

b.


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

bshallard said:


> Mark yours is the first positive comment I've read about the XPE-R5. I've read other comments to the effect that they won't be any use in exterior lighting.
> 
> b.


here was some comparison.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Itess said:


> here was some comparison.


Yeah that came from the thread I was thinking of. I use an XPE board precisely for throw and centre intensity, so the R5 doesn't seem like the go for my purposes.

b.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

Eeek, I stand corrected! I wonder why a phosphor change (ie not a geometry change) has resulted in the beam spread?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

bshallard said:


> Hey all.
> After a first ride with it, I have some observations and questions.
> It seems like there is a lot less overall light output, but this might be because the RGB combo strips all the yellow out the beam. The terrain looked color accurate (if that makes any sense) and I thought it might be helping with depth perception, as each color seems to have a different focal point.... or something. Up close I get a noticeable rainbow shadow effect which takes a bit of getting used to, but I think it might be quite a good use of the available light. I tried to take a quick photo but the camera wasn't picking up the effect.
> 
> ...


Hello Blair,

sorry that I couldn't address your question before, I was on a trip, just returned.

Well, the RGB is built from three color XP-E's which together provide less output than tri-white XP-E LEDs. So some reduction in output is expected. Also, as long as there's some distance between the three color emitters it may result on some color artifacts which can be seen on close distance. But this can be easily fixed by using a frosted optic (the clear is not recommended here).

But this triple provides much better color rendering, sometimes the color intensities may look ridiculous making this light suitable more for in-house decorative illumination (provides an astonishing effect when used as an aquarium light, tested) than an MTB light.


----------

