# Aqua Mira tabs - 4 hrs!?!? What's faster?



## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Got some Aqua Mira tablets online. The directions say they require 4 hours to work! 

Anything out there faster?

(I will be travelling with a Katadyn Hiker Pro filter. I want a secondary system to go with it to treat for the stuff it misses - namely viruses.)


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## owtdorz (Apr 26, 2012)

I would go to REI and ask them what they like.
The REI here in AZ has the Best Customer Service.
They sell themselves more than they sell their products.


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## heartland (Oct 1, 2009)

I've never used the tablets, but liquid Aqua Mira works great and takes about ~15 mins, iirc.


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## Nsteele (Oct 9, 2011)

Just get a Steripen Adventurer. Super fast, kills everything. Pricey yes, but worth it in weight savings and less hassle. Batteries last a while but I carry and extra set just in case. Get at any REI


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

There are some things you need to understand when you read product info

There are three classes of beasties that can be in your water. The smallest happen to be the easiest to kill. The largest happen to be the hardest.

1. Viruses are smallest, most difficult to filter, and easiest to kill
2. Bacteria hold the middle ground
3. Protozoa are the biggest, easiest to filter, and toughest to kill because they can form protective cysts when conditions are bad

Wait times are listed for the toughest to kill. Filters remove the biggest stuff. Microfilters remove down to bacteria. Purifiers treat to viruses, usually by killing them, but there are a couple purifiers that mechanically filter viruses. If all you have left to kill are viruses, you won't have to wait long. How long depends on chemical concentration, turbidity (sediment load, since beasties can hide on sediment particles), and water temp (colder takes longer). The chemical should have guidelines you can follow. Usually 15 min best case to 30 min worst case.

Encysted parasites are another beast. They take up to 4hrs for chlorine dioxide and depending on the chemical, some are not killed at all. Giardia is a little easier to kill than Cryptosporidium. Crypto's cyst is especially tough. But it's huge. Filter it out and be done with it.

Bacteria can form biofilms, which can hide other beasties and protect them from chemicals, and clog filters. Higher chem concentrations might be necessary to break down biofilms. Usually these are an issue on filter elements after a period of time without cleaning them. If you treat water with chlorine dioxide, treating it first then running it through the filter should help break up biofilms. After a trip, i boil my filter elements to kill any lingering bacteria that might form a biofilm


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## alanm (Sep 2, 2009)

I use a Lifesaver Water bottle, big, but I'm still alive and well. I've filtered water thats been shared by cow dung and lived...... :thumbsup:

Al


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## fleetwood (Apr 1, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> There are some things you need to understand when you read product info
> 
> There are three classes of beasties that can be in your water. The smallest happen to be the easiest to kill. The largest happen to be the hardest.
> 
> ...


I think you lost me at, "there are some things you need to understand."


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

Iodine. Cheap and fast. Turns your pasta fun colors too! It's what I carry as back up. 

There's always boiling too.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jmmorath said:


> Iodine. Cheap and fast. Turns your pasta fun colors too! It's what I carry as back up.
> 
> There's always boiling too.


Iodine does not kill protozoa. Ever. Katadyn micropur or similar is a better backup. And it doesn't have the health concerns as iodine


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

So my riding buddy says he has some that work in 30 minutes. He didn't say which brand.

So the setup will be to filter with Katadyn Hiker Pro into bottles then treat with his 30 minute tablets - whatever brand they may be.

I also ordered some Aqua Mira drops for $10. We'll see what the instructions say on those when they arrive. Although I'm not jazzed about carrying two solution bottles. The tablets were basically negligible in size and weight.


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## Montana Rider (Aug 21, 2005)

I like the inline system

Sawyer 3-Way Inline Water Filter - Free Shipping at REI.com

I carry an "old" bladder that I fill with creek water, then attach the inline filter so I filter CLEAN water into my "good" bladder for longer rides/bikepacking...

When I looked years ago, they had a few different tiers of filters, some for the bugs and a nicer one for viruses...


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

NateHawk said:


> There are three classes of beasties that can be in your water....


Interresting. 
Thanks, Nate.


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## QZ13 (Jan 19, 2010)

I use one of these mofos

Water Purifiers | Adventurer Opti SteriPEN

90 seconds after I find water, I drink it


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> Iodine does not kill protozoa. Ever. Katadyn micropur or similar is a better backup. And it doesn't have the health concerns as iodine


I use a Platypus gravity filter as my main deal. 
Less itty bits to get jammed and what not. As any filter takes care of everything but viruses

Iodine is a backup for worse case scenarios-better than nothing.

I boil first if fuel is available which I've only had to do once after a filter failed.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jmmorath said:


> I use a Platypus gravity filter as my main deal.
> Less itty bits to get jammed and what not. As any filter takes care of everything but viruses
> 
> Iodine is a backup for worse case scenarios-better than nothing.
> ...


Yes, iodine is better than nothing but there are more effective backups to carry.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*B:tchy Princess doesn't like his Aqua Mira drops...*

So the _Aqua Mira drops_ arrived. And I'm... I little bit annoyed. Just a lil' bit.

They're clearly a better solution than the FOUR-HOUR tablets I mentioned previously (pictures below). But come on! They're still cumbersome and awkward! They're two liquids to be stored in my backpack. They're heavy, bulky (pills vs. two liquid bottles!??!), and they have the potential to leak .

And... To use them... I'm instructed to PRE-MIX seven drops of each in the stupid little cap... _for FIVE minutes_. Then drop the mix in the water. Can you picture it? Standing around by the trail in a buggy stream-bed area gingerly holding a little 5ml cap counting the seconds? Swatting the skeeters away while trying not to tip the precious cap!?!

(Okay - maybe I should take some water away from the low-lying swampland... but back to rant!)

YES, I'M BEING A PRINCESS. I know... But seriously, isn't there a fizzy pill I can drop in some water and drink it 5-10 minutes later? ...especially if it's been through a Katadyn Hiker Pro already? Maybe something military? Maybe something Bear Grills is hawking on QVC?

Pics to follow:










And the even _suckier_ Four Hour tablets:

Katadayn Tabs:









And Aqua Mira tabs:









_________________

*But seriously - enough with being sarcastic and silly.*

Pills are considerably easier to use than solution. The likelihood of screwing up the drops for the solutions is pretty real. Liquids have the potential to leak in my pack. The size, bulk, and weight difference between pills and solutions is considerable.

I'm imaging an effervescent tablet that bubbles an oxidant through water to kill baddies - much the same way contact lens pills do.

So should I just _SHUT UP_ and use my Katadyn filter and fuggedaboudit? Or does such a pill exit?

_(Seriously... I'm not trying to flame. Just looking for a great tablet supplement to the Katadyn. My riding buddy claims to have 30-minute tablets. I was hoping for something better.)_


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Get over it. Nothing is faster than a steripen but they have their own issues. Every method is a compromise in one way or another. Time, weight, durability, whatever. There is no miracle cure


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## LIIT (Sep 8, 2008)

3-6 drops of bleach to a quart (clear to cloudy). Bleach gets old/weaker with time, so refresh it two or three times a year or add an extra drop. Cheap and effective.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

LIIT said:


> 3-6 drops of bleach to a quart (clear to cloudy). Bleach gets old/weaker with time, so refresh it two or three times a year or add an extra drop. Cheap and effective.


Bleach is just about as effective as iodine. Better than nothing in a pinch, but it does not kill protozoa. There are better options.


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

heartland said:


> I've never used the tablets, but liquid Aqua Mira works great and takes about ~15 mins, iirc.


Agree. Use the drops for faster results.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

You need to run a two water bottle system so you don't have to drink the water in the bottle immediately. I use Micropur forte tablets. One tablet does 1L of water, but I just use 1 tablet per 800ml biddon. Once you empty a bottle, look out for your next water source and fill + treat it while you drink from the other bottle. The micropur tablets take 30 mins, but the longer you leave them the better.

Because you are filtering the water, 30 mins of treatment time with these tabs should be plenty, particularly with some riding agitation as it does its thing.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Here are some technical documents that may be useful.

Chlorine Disinfection

Note: Only addresses use of sodium hypochlorite. Also note, 30min contact time (give or take, depends on turbidity, temp, and pH of water) for bacteria and viruses. Much longer contact time (2hrs give or take, depends on turbidity, temp, and pH of water) for Giardia. Not effective against Crypto oocysts.

Pay attention to the fact that chlorine dioxide IS effective against Crypto oocysts. They just take longer to kill (reference listed in the above paper).

When a chemical treatment's method claims 30 min treatment time, it's going to be giving the times for the beasties it's rated to kill (in that case, bacteria and viruses). If a method is rated to kill Crypto, the contact time given will be to kill crypto, hence the 4hr wait times listed on chlorine dioxide.

Quoted from the above document


> Because of chlorine's high efficiency in viral inactivation, CT values are typically governed by Giardia (protozoan) CT criteria.


Also per TigWorld's link for Micropur Forte::


> Contact Time: 30 min for bacteria and viruses, 2 h for Giardia in clear water.


I come across this document:

Going deeper, and looking at "Micropur Classic", I find this document:

Neither of these uses chlorine dioxide, which can kill crypto (in 4hrs). The Forte contains sodium dichloroisocyanurate and silver chloride. Classic contains just silver chloride. Neither mentions being effective against cryptosporidium. I have never seen either of these products in the US. I have to wonder where TigWorld lives.

The Micropur tablets I'm familiar with are the MP1 tablets. Note in the overview that it's rated to kill cryptosporidium.

UV Disinfection

If you're whiny about time concerns of chemicals, then don't use chemicals. Use a pump filter or UV disinfection.

Chemicals are what they are. You can kill things faster with them than the listed CT on the products, but there's a complicated relationship between time, turbidity, temperature, pH, and species. Some species are more sensitive at higher pH, and some at lower pH. Furthermore, the effect of pH differs depending on the chemical in question.

So, if you use a pump microfilter rated for everything down to bacteria, all you'd have left in the water are viruses, and a contact time of 15min would take care of them with most chemicals. If you're using a filter rated only to remove protozoa, 30min CT for most chemicals would do since you'd still need to kill the bacteria in the water. No filter, or only filtering large sediment? Then you're going to have to wait longer and possibly use more chemical to kill what you want.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Of course, if you have a CCW, you can simply pump a couple of rounds of 9mm or 10mm into the water to kill the bad guys. That will prevent the possibility of being raped by a virus or other invisible nasty bit.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

DavyRay said:


> Of course, if you have a CCW, you can simply pump a couple of rounds of 9mm or 10mm into the water to kill the bad guys. That will prevent the possibility of being raped by a virus or other invisible nasty bit.


Not everyone has pristine mountain spring water to use. Some of us live in populated areas where we are almost always downstream from where someone crapped, livestock, and other unfavorable activities. Where I live now, it is recommended that folks place water caches because of heavy metal contamination due to historic mining and industrial logging and paper mills.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

We'll be using a Katadyn Hiker Pro filter first. It filters down to 0.3 micron. That should eliminate cryptosporidia and giardia. Viruses should be the only thing left.

It will be a "two bottle system." We'll filter via the Katadyn into 1L bottles and then chemically treat that water for viruses and "just to be sure."

Then we'll dump that water into our backpack bladders 30 minutes later. The bladders are 3L bladders and I'll be carrying 2 - 1L bottles. We should be OK.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

And I'll post the brand and chemical of my buddy's 30-minute tablets on Friday.


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## wahday (Mar 23, 2012)

I use a steri-pen together with another filter system to get out particulates. The steri-pen is great, small and doesn't add any taste. But, it doesn't get any gunk out, either, so depending on your sources, I find it useful to have both. The "pens" are small and light, too. 

The only hassle for me (and other steri-pen products may work better by processing larger batches) is that I can only treat 1 liter at a time (you turn it on and stir it for ~40 secs until the light cycles off - that treats 1 liter). So, I filter into a 1 liter bottle, treat with the steri-pen, then pour into other containers. Can take a little time.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

connolm said:


> And I'll post the brand and chemical of my buddy's 30-minute tablets on Friday.


I guarantee that chemical tablet won't kill Giardia in 30min at the packaged dosage.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> I guarantee that chemical tablet won't kill Giardia in 30min at the packaged dosage.


You must have missed the post right before that one (at bottom of first page) - _"We'll be using a Katadyn Hiker Pro filter first. It filters down to 0.3 micron. That should eliminate cryptosporidia and giardia. Viruses should be the only thing left.

It will be a "two bottle system." We'll filter via the Katadyn into 1L bottles and then chemically treat that water for viruses and "just to be sure."

Then we'll dump that water into our backpack bladders 30 minutes later. The bladders are 3L bladders and I'll be carrying 2 - 1L bottles. We should be OK.."_

********

The Hiker Pro is rated to remove 99.9% of Giardia and Cryptosporidium according to its included literature.

At this point, it is what it is: Katadyn Hiker Pro and some unknown brand of pills. I can check out the pills before we start pedalling. If they look _hinky_, I'll take my Aqua Mira drops.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Most people who use Aqua Mira drops repackage them into smaller droppers. And look up instructions on premixing the stuff. simplifies things a bit.

also, your Hiker filter also filters out bacteria. Viruses are really only a minor concern in most of the USA. more often than not, I only use a filter. the chemicals are reserved for water that's REALLY sketchy when I have no other choice.


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## neil.beltchenko (May 29, 2011)

in all likelihood whats the chance in the high country say about 9000 ft in Colorado! I know there's a chance but is there a less percentage to get giardia?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

neil.beltchenko said:


> in all likelihood whats the chance in the high country say about 9000 ft in Colorado! I know there's a chance but is there a less percentage to get giardia?


It depends in large part on how much human activity is going on up there from hikers and such. Some alpine areas have high levels of microbiological contamination from hikers who crap too close to the water. Most backcountry GI problems are sanitation problems and that is definitely a sanitation problem.

Livestock also carry and spread pathogens, so if the area is grazed (many western forests are) then that is a risk. Beavers and other wildlife carry pathogens, too.

Some areas are okay. But you need to have a good bit of experience to recognize low risk water. It is best to err on the side of caution because some pathogens like leptospirosis (bacteria transmitted by pets most commonly) can have really nasty long term effects


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## neil.beltchenko (May 29, 2011)

ok good to know, Lots of free range cows all over Colorado! even near 10,000ft!


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Trip Success with Katadyn Hiker Pro and Coleman PA-plus Tablets*

Our trip went just fine. I'm back home and had no "_problems_" from water.

We used the* Katadyn Hiker Pro* to filter from_ running_ streams. The water came out of that looking and smelling good - it was free of debris/sediment and lacked any "swampy" smell.

The tablets were *Coleman PA-plus tablets*. They did indeed work in 30 minutes. The active ingredient is _tetraglycine hydroperiodide_. The water turned brown with iodine. After 30 minutes, we added the second tablet, _ascorbic acid_. The iodine color dissipated instantly and the water was ready to drink.

*It tasted great* - better, in fact, than common city water I've had in some places. No chemical taste or smell. No color. No sediment.

With only a 30 minute wait time, we ended up doing it several times directly in our 3L Camelbak bladders. For cooking and camp, I carried two empty 1L bottles that we filled up.

You can read the Coleman tablets packaging information here.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

That sounds like a winner. Im just getting into this and have been getting ideas on what to do for water. I can carry 3L and an additional 128oz in 2 nalgenebottles. 
Im going to look into that katadyn filter and those tablets. 
Did you ahve to boil the water at all?
I always assumed people just boiled water to kill whatever then ran it through a filter, but then again i have very minimal experience doing some primitive camping.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Boiling is an option - but you have to have the fuel to do so. If you're just making a campfire with wood you find, it's no big deal - except for carrying a big pot and then cleaning the soot off afterward.

I cook on a alcohol Supercat stove. My pot is only 2 cups (16 oz.) and wouldn't really boil enough water to be useful. Plus I'd need to carry extra fuel.

After the experience I had in Baxter in Maine, I think you could get away with just the pills and a coffee filter. I was usually able to find fast running water that was pretty clean to begin with. A quick filter through a coffee filter would remove most visible sediment (although fast running cold water has very little anyway) then chemical treatment to remove the bugs that would make you sick.


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## chriswrightcycles (Oct 26, 2011)

Looks like you already found a solution, but in case you are still interested in giving AM drops a shot, try this:

Procure 3 small dropper bottles, fill 1 with Part A, the other with Part B. Fill the 3rd bottle with equal parts A&B at the beginning of each day. Call it your Pre mix bottle. Put bottles A & B in your bag and use only this pre mix bottle throughout the course of the day. 

Do a Google search for "Mike Clelland Water Treatment" for more info. 

-Chris


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