# What are manufacturers doing for trail access?



## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

Does anyone know if major MTB manufacturers who have eMTBs in their lineup (Specialized being the big one) are actively doing anything for trail access? 

Specialized is based in Morgan Hill and IMHO should be involved in this throughout the state of California. I'm curious to know if they're doing anything, and if so, what. 

Also curious to know if they have any action plans for their rogue competitors, e.g. Stealth.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

EricTheDood said:


> Does anyone know if major MTB manufacturers who have eMTBs in their lineup (Specialized being the big one) are actively doing anything for trail access?
> 
> Specialized is based in Morgan Hill and IMHO should be involved in this throughout the state of California. I'm curious to know if they're doing anything, and if so, what.
> 
> Also curious to know if they have any action plans for their rogue competitors, e.g. Stealth.


They aren't doing anything but chasing the mighty $.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Zero. I was on our local advocacy group board and I am still in touch with the current board members. I have not heard of a single effort by bike companies or their local dealers to aid in trail advocacy around motorized bikes.


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

mtnbikej said:


> They aren't doing anything but chasing the mighty $.





vikb said:


> Zero. I was on our local advocacy group board and I am still in touch with the current board members. I have not heard of a single effort by bike companies or their local dealers to aid in trail advocacy around motorized bikes.


That's very unfortunate and could greatly affect my buying decisions.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

One large company and their local dealer actually poached trails during a demo here and tried in some other nearby spots, but I warned the local folks up there and the motorized demos were shutdown on those trails.

What I am seeing is the poach first and ask for forgiveness later approach. Assuming that if you sell a bunch of these machines it will be harder to deny access than if they ask first when there are no actual users yet.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

No more than they were doing before. Some of the bigger guys give money to orgs like IMBA. Bell hands out trail building grants each year, REI is involved on a local level everywhere. Locally, SRAM is our biggest supporter with other companies like Rotor and SRM lending a hand. It's mostly swag and providing services like meeting and storage space, primarily because we have members who work there, it's not like they are looking for trail orgs to support. 

Aside from helping to fund lobbyists, and having demos in places they shouldn't, I don't see any evidence the major manufacturers are involved in ebike access.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

vikb said:


> One large company and their local dealer actually poached trails during a demo here and tried in some other nearby spots, but I warned the local folks up there and the motorized demos were shutdown on those trails.
> 
> What I am seeing is the poach first and ask for forgiveness later approach. Assuming that if you sell a bunch of these machines it will be harder to deny access than if they ask first when there are no actual users yet.


Absolutely, the local shops are pushing emtbs hard with the "It's just a bike" and then "It's up to the rider to figure it out" approach. Even though 95% of the local trails are off limits.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

The primary advocacy group for ebikes in the US is peopleforbikes.org.

Their donor list looks like a Who's Who of the bike industry, plus non-bike companies as well.

https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgave2.php?cycle=2016&cmte=C00372862


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mtnbikej said:


> They aren't doing anything but chasing the mighty $.


Yep, but the mighty dollar needs trail access. Industry leaders are working on it the usual way via lobbying. Access will come with definition changes, California style.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

I talked to Bosch representatives at Interbike and they had contacted local "authorities" in order to increase access, all in vain according to them.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Harryman said:


> Absolutely, the local shops are pushing emtbs hard with the "It's just a bike" and then "It's up to the rider to figure it out" approach. Even though 95% of the local trails are off limits.


Many dealers are outright lying to customers. I went to Tsali in the Nantahala NF a couple weeks back and a guy at the trailhead asked about ebikes. All I knew was that there were signs plastered all over the TH that ebikes were prohibited and I pointed to a few I could see from where I stood. He said he had been told that ebikes could ride there. *shrug* Not my fault the dude was lied to, but the USFS was making it awfully clear what their policy is on the issue.

Oddly enough, this guy was probably in his 60's on a regular pedal-mtb. It was his fit-looking 30y/o daughter who was on the emotorbike. That was a first for me.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Tsali, cool ride. Done it a few times. Yeah emtb not cool anywhere around there.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Harryman said:


> Absolutely, the local shops are pushing emtbs hard with the "It's just a bike" and then "It's up to the rider to figure it out" approach. Even though 95% of the local trails are off limits.


Some local races now include an 'ebike' category. You can imagine the slurs we yelled during the post-race awards ceremony.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Crankout said:


> Some local races now include an 'ebike' category. You can imagine the slurs we yelled during the post-race awards ceremony.


I'm sure the promoters loved you.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Gutch said:


> I'm sure the promoters loved you.


About as much as us racers loved the e-bikers whizzing by us on course.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Crankout said:


> About as much as us racers loved the e-bikers whizzing by us on course.


That would suck to have to share the same tight course with a motorized class... was it a loop style race, were the same guys passing you over and over? Why would any race promoter think that was okay?


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Kj, I think he meant a separate race. I noticed the same egregious behavior by some drunks at the Sea Otter e-MTB race. This type of behavior disgusts me.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

fos'l said:


> I think he meant a separate race. I noticed the same egregious behavior by some drunks at the Sea Otter e-MTB race. Takes a real man to get with his pals and yell slurs at race winners.


Don't ever go to a cyclocross race.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

If it weren't for the egregious behavior of drunks, nobody would go to bike races at all!

-Walt


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Crankout said:


> About as much as us racers loved the e-bikers whizzing by us on course.


If you want to go faster go "e" hahaha.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Klurejr said:


> That would suck to have to share the same tight course with a motorized class... was it a loop style race, were the same guys passing you over and over? Why would any race promoter think that was okay?


It was a loop course (8 hour race). However, it was just one tag-team, so we weren't inundated by them. If so, many of us may have carried e-branches to jam in their spokes when they hauled by us.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Well, I don't agree, Specialized sent a demo truck to our local state park and held a ranger, park staff info session along with Around Town Bike Shop last spring. The rangers and staff were riding the Turbos and learning the facts of how these worked, along with the gen public. Lackawanna State Park allows ebikes now!


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Crankout said:


> About as much as us racers loved the e-bikers whizzing by us on course.


 Moto Harescrambles races have everyone run together and the pros lap people! Makes for a humbling time to learn how to be that fast!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

NEPMTBA said:


> Well, I don't agree, Specialized sent a demo truck to our local state park and held a ranger, park staff info session along with Around Town Bike Shop last spring. The rangers and staff were riding the Turbos and learning the facts of how these worked, along with the gen public. Lackawanna State Park allows ebikes now!


Sounds like mainly a sales pitch.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

NEPMTBA said:


> Well, I don't agree, Specialized sent a demo truck to our local state park and held a ranger, park staff info session along with Around Town Bike Shop last spring. The rangers and staff were riding the Turbos and learning the facts of how these worked, along with the gen public. Lackawanna State Park allows ebikes now!


Because you arranged it and also sell them if I remember correctly. Which does demonstrate industry advocacy in a small way.

http://forums.mtbr.com/pennsylvania/specialized-turbo-levo-legal-lackawanna-state-park-1025777.html


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

IMO, the best way to have decision-makers understand the attributes of an e-MTB is NEPMTBA's method.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Harryman said:


> Because you arranged it and also sell them if I remember correctly. Which does demonstrate industry advocacy in a small way.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/pennsylvania/specialized-turbo-levo-legal-lackawanna-state-park-1025777.html


Would you rather I sold one and let the customer go out the door go to a local park and get fined, or ride in an irresponsible way?


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

slapheadmofo said:


> Sounds like mainly a sales pitch.


It was a great day for our area, yes I am bragging about what we have done. I ride the park many times a month and have never had a bad time with anyone. Most people I see ask if that is a ebike and can I try it? Hum? Seems I'm doing my job to a tee, promoting good healthy use of a e bike! If sales come from that well that is the idea!

The update is, 3 more Turbo Levos are now on the trails, and no problems what so ever. I have heard one of the park staff has offered to buy one out of her own pock money and use it to lightly patrol. To be out and help everyone fisherman, hikers and so on! Seems like a win win sales pitch to me...


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## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

NEPMTBA said:


> Well, I don't agree, Specialized sent a demo truck to our local state park and held a ranger, park staff info session along with Around Town Bike Shop last spring. The rangers and staff were riding the Turbos and learning the facts of how these worked, along with the gen public. Lackawanna State Park allows ebikes now!


E-bikes are legal on all the trails around here, paved and singletrack, but the local IMBA chapter doesn't allow them in any of their races. The Trek dealer always brings a few Powerflys for race personnel and DNR enforcement agents to shuttle around the trails doing their various race functions. I haven't seen any Specialized presence at the trailhead here, but the Trek dealer is out at the trails every now and then offering demo rides to whomever is interested. Pretty effective marketing, at least locally.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

NEPMTBA said:


> Seems like a ...sales pitch to me...


Exactly.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

NEPMTBA said:


> Would you rather I sold one and let the customer go out the door go to a local park and get fined, or ride in an irresponsible way?


No, not at all, just be up front about the fact that it was driven by your shop instead of pretending Specialized is visiting parks on it's own. I'm all for local control over ebike access, if your rangers are on board, good for you.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

NEPMTBA said:


> It was a great day for our area, yes I am bragging about what we have done. I ride the park many times a month and have never had a bad time with anyone. Most people I see ask if that is a ebike and can I try it? Hum? Seems I'm doing my job to a tee, promoting good healthy use of a e bike! If sales come from that well that is the idea!
> 
> The update is, 3 more Turbo Levos are now on the trails, and no problems what so ever. I have heard one of the park staff has offered to buy one out of her own pock money and use it to lightly patrol. To be out and help everyone fisherman, hikers and so on! Seems like a win win sales pitch to me...


 Good job NEPMTBA e bikes and reg bikes can and do get along just fine it takes ppl like you to show and prove E bikes are nothing to fear for a Mt bike club and land mangers . I was riding today a trail system in Cinn, OHIO ran in to a CORR Mt bike club member who informed me my e bike wasn't allowed @ Devou park we had a nice chat after which he said you have shown me a diff aspect of e bikes tells me enjoy my ride if any body says anything just give them his name he asks for my e mail says the Mt bike club was torn on the e bike subject .


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Seems odd to have an Ebike race. There are so many variables between different brand as far as power output and range that the results would seem meaningless. It might even be as big a difference as an EBike racing a regular bike up a hill. What's the point?

It wouldn't bother me being in a race with EBikes. It is not the same race. I'd just be puzzled why they were holding a motorcycle race in the first place.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Read the rules; e-bikes aren't motorcycles and any future references will be expunged.


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