# low back pain WHY????



## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

What am I doing wrong? I do core workouts 3x a week, I got a bike fit (for my road bike), and I stretch and use a foam roller, but I STILL managed to wrench my back this weekend during a race. So bad that I can barely walk and it takes me 5 minutes to get out of bed!

Am I getting too old for this? I'm 40, and I have friends who I regularly chase on group rides who are in their 50's riding bigger gears than I, so that can't be it!

Is it bike fit? Might be. I just had a pro fit for my road bike, so that is dialed, and I used that to compare against the competitivecyclist and wrenchscience online fit tools, which puts me pretty much right where I am with ETT and stem length. But those tools aren't really taking into account single speed rigid. Plus, they don't specify handlebar width, so what if you're using a wide set of bars (I'm running 711 width).

Is it climbing technique? When the going gets steep, I pull up on the bars. I try to stick my butt out b/c somebody somewhere said to do that, but maybe that's bad advice. Should I be trying to be as "tall" as possible, or better to be hunched over the bars?

Is it poor fitness? Possibly. Been a tough winter here on the East Coast, lots of snow and ice, so lots of indoor trainer time. Plus I'd taken a few weeks off just to recup. Maybe jumping on the SS and riding it like I had been last Fall isn't such a smart idea. Maybe I should give the gearie some love for a while until I get the strength and fitness back?

Anyone have any advice for me? I'd really like to avoid this happening again (I don't do well with pain, ask my wife )


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Don't compare yourself to anyone else, even the guys older then you because everyone is different. I'd say core work three times a week is great but its hard to simulate the core action you get from cranking a tall gear up a long steep hill. I'd say if it's been a slow winter and you haven't had much time on the SS then lack of SS acclimation is probably your biggest problem. 

Also if you push a gear while seated that's going to eat up your power backs endurance much faster then standing in my opinion.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

I had been riding my whole life without any back issues, but with a new bike setup they suddenly appeared out of nowhere. I'm 31 years of age so not really an oldie or even middle-aged, but certainly not a young gun either.

Based on how I felt on bikes before and the new bike, I realized that the saddle was tilted back just a wee bit more. This caused me to slip back and semi-consciously compensate by pulling on the bars. Lowering the saddle nose just a little bit stopped my lower back pains as quickly as they had appeared. 

Another saddle adjustment to look at is the fore-aft position. I'm not a big believer in KOPS, because it doesn't account for certain anatomical differences between individuals. For example if you have a light upper body, you can move the saddle forward (compared to the position you'd achieve with KOPS-adjustment) without putting too much weight on your arms.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

What are you doing for your "core workouts"?


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

Kawigreen99 said:


> What are you doing for your "core workouts"?


I was doing this: http://m.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/training-fitness/core
But objected to the crunches and leg lifts, as they put a lot of stress on the back.

Then moved to this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/193403097X?pc_redir=1395505115&robot_redir=1
Which does less crunches and more planks. But they had some funky exercises like supermans, which really stress the back.

And for the past two months I've been doing this (I have the book): http://www.foundationtraining.com
These are ore yoga inspired routines which really emphasize the back muscles. But maybe there are some exercises I need to emphasize more than others, Like bird dogs, reverse bridge, and hip extensions?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bad jack (Aug 24, 2011)

What is your gearing? Maybe try using easier gearing for a month or so, take your time, and slowly build your strength up to speed? Sometimes less is more!


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

BmoreKen said:


> I was doing this: Core Exercises for Cyclists: Cycling Training Tips & Workouts | Bicycling Magazine
> But objected to the crunches and leg lifts, as they put a lot of stress on the back.
> 
> Then moved to this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/193403097X?pc_redir=1395505115&robot_redir=1
> ...


Good call on the situps/crunches. I have a friend who has lower back problems and when I asked what he does for exercises, he said situps. I cringed. Your thought on doing more extension exercises is probably a good idea. Most cyclists would benefit from more posterior chain strength.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Get you butt in and put yourself into a "hiking" or "walking" position. You might need a shorter stem for this. Putting your rear out is an unnatural human movement; get yourself into a natural hiking position. You'll put down more power and really work the lower back. It might hurt a bit after a big climb, but it'll be a good hurt that makes you stronger each ride. My back is messed up from desk work and SSing is the only thing that keeps the pain down. Sitting is bad, standing is good. If you can find that "hiking" position, you can stand all day.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Forget making your "back" stronger. I have two herniated discs in my lower back, and opt not to have surgery to correct it. I have a really, truly fantastic doctor who works on my back though something loosely called chiropractics. He was one of the first people to inform me that everything about your back is supported by your abs. Planks are the answer. By all means, continue your yoga and flexibility/mobility stuff. But do 90 seconds a day on your toes and elbows, first like you're doing a pushup, then turn and do it on each side (only right foot, right elbow/lower arm) touching the ground then do the other side. 90 seconds each. It will suck. You will hate me. But I have yet to hurt my back on a bike, and 5 years ago, I couldn't ride a bike because of my back.


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## Flat Ark (Oct 14, 2006)

Does your back not bother you on your road bike? Sounds like you have your core in order. I'm gonna guess bike fit. If I run a stem that is even 5mm too short for me my lower back will pretty much kill me.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

I'm similar to you in that I do all I should to prepare myself to not have back pain. 

However, I still get it. Turns out, I've got a degenerating disc in my low back. Acupuncture makes it feel brand new, though, so I do that every other week and it keeps me going.


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## tims5377 (Oct 20, 2010)

Stretch the piss out of your hammies, quads, hips, and glutes. Then abs and obliques. 
Aaaaaand stand tall when riding! Imagine standing on the floor, feet shoulder width apart, then bending until your upper body is 45 degrees from horizontal and push the butt out. Then think of pushing downward with the legs hard... You would almost be in deadlift posture = major stress on the back


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

I delt with this for years. Finaly Figured out it wasn't my back at all but the iliopsoaz. Basicly hip flexors that connect on the bottom to hamstrings and femur at the top to the lower 5 vertebrae . Just about any cardio movment running riding causes them to tighten pulling on the back. I started doing hip flexor stretches daily and most all pain has been gone unless I slack on stretching. Just google hip flexor stretches,or tight
iliopsoaz and start reading up.Total game changer for me.


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

Excessive "pulling up" on yourpedals whilst climbing can overwear your hip flexors and tighen then up pretty good....lower back compensates, body feels pain.Be sure to do the Captain Morgan stretch.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

SS Hack said:


> Get you butt in and put yourself into a "hiking" or "walking" position. You might need a shorter stem for this. Putting your rear out is an unnatural human movement; get yourself into a natural hiking position. You'll put down more power and really work the lower back. It might hurt a bit after a big climb, but it'll be a good hurt that makes you stronger each ride. My back is messed up from desk work and SSing is the only thing that keeps the pain down. Sitting is bad, standing is good. If you can find that "hiking" position, you can stand all day.


Good advice, good imagery...



tims5377 said:


> Stretch the piss out of your hammies, quads, hips, and glutes. Then abs and obliques.
> Aaaaaand stand tall when riding! Imagine standing on the floor, feet shoulder width apart, then bending until your upper body is 45 degrees from horizontal and push the butt out. Then think of pushing downward with the legs hard... You would almost be in deadlift posture = major stress on the back


... and this too. Stand tall. I'm going to hit a local hill with this in mind, and consider handlebar placement - I might need to go shorter.



Cotharyus said:


> Forget making your "back" stronger. I have two herniated discs in my lower back, and opt not to have surgery to correct it. I have a really, truly fantastic doctor who works on my back though something loosely called chiropractics. He was one of the first people to inform me that everything about your back is supported by your abs. Planks are the answer. By all means, continue your yoga and flexibility/mobility stuff. But do 90 seconds a day on your toes and elbows, first like you're doing a pushup, then turn and do it on each side (only right foot, right elbow/lower arm) touching the ground then do the other side. 90 seconds each. It will suck. You will hate me. But I have yet to hurt my back on a bike, and 5 years ago, I couldn't ride a bike because of my back.


I do planks as part of my routine, and I definitely agree they're very important.



Flat Ark said:


> Does your back not bother you on your road bike? Sounds like you have your core in order. I'm gonna guess bike fit. If I run a stem that is even 5mm too short for me my lower back will pretty much kill me.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


I'm dialed in my road bike, comfy for looooong rides. Not sure exactly how to translate road bike fit to MTB fit. I mean, there's reach from my saddle to the bar, or to the hoods, or to the drops, but I'm more upright on MTB and the bars are much wider (711 vs. 440). Any suggestions?



Andrea138 said:


> I'm similar to you in that I do all I should to prepare myself to not have back pain.
> 
> However, I still get it. Turns out, I've got a degenerating disc in my low back. Acupuncture makes it feel brand new, though, so I do that every other week and it keeps me going.


This might just be the way it is for me, too. I definitely am glad for the core work that I had been doing, as I'd imagine I'd be in much worse shape if I hadn't been doing anything.



fixgeardan said:


> I delt with this for years. Finaly Figured out it wasn't my back at all but the iliopsoaz. Basicly hip flexors that connect on the bottom to hamstrings and femur at the top to the lower 5 vertebrae . Just about any cardio movment running riding causes them to tighten pulling on the back. I started doing hip flexor stretches daily and most all pain has been gone unless I slack on stretching. Just google hip flexor stretches,or tight
> iliopsoaz and start reading up.Total game changer for me.


Good suggestion, I'll look into this. Hamstrings and hip flexors are tight from sitting at computer all day.



skankingbiker said:


> Excessive "pulling up" on yourpedals whilst climbing can overwear your hip flexors and tighen then up pretty good....lower back compensates, body feels pain.Be sure to do the Captain Morgan stretch.


I can't say that I pull up on the pedals much at all, maybe only when fighting for traction. I dont' think I pull up at all when standing. Good suggestion, though.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Stretching and yoga help me a lot. Maybe mix the ss with geared riding off road?


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## ser jameson (Jun 24, 2012)

fixgeardan said:


> I delt with this for years. Finaly Figured out it wasn't my back at all but the iliopsoaz. Basicly hip flexors that connect on the bottom to hamstrings and femur at the top to the lower 5 vertebrae . Just about any cardio movment running riding causes them to tighten pulling on the back. I started doing hip flexor stretches daily and most all pain has been gone unless I slack on stretching. Just google hip flexor stretches,or tight
> iliopsoaz and start reading up.Total game changer for me.


 I was going to point this out. That tight hip flexors can couse back pain, and tight hip flexors is a common contraindication to cycling.


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## slohr (May 22, 2008)

That's it--you'll need to recondition your glutes to get involved in pedaling. Try to feel your glutes working when you are pedaling--not just pedaling from the quads-knees. Follow Hack's form above when standing. Work on planks, stretching--especially hips, and do leg exercises that will reteach you to engage your glutes. Side squats are good ones. I bet when you feel the glutes come on line your back will feel great!


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## slohr (May 22, 2008)

Oh--make sure your saddle is not too high, that will remove your glutes from the power chain, and possibly start you rocking--which is just crushing your discs side-to-side. Feel your entire leg from the butt to the calf pedaling.


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## J3SSEB (Jun 1, 2009)

fixgeardan said:


> I delt with this for years. Finaly Figured out it wasn't my back at all but the iliopsoaz. Basicly hip flexors that connect on the bottom to hamstrings and femur at the top to the lower 5 vertebrae . Just about any cardio movment running riding causes them to tighten pulling on the back. I started doing hip flexor stretches daily and most all pain has been gone unless I slack on stretching. Just google hip flexor stretches,or tight
> iliopsoaz and start reading up.Total game changer for me.


Wow, so glad I came across this post. This sounds like exactly what I'm going through.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

fixgeardan said:


> I delt with this for years. Finaly Figured out it wasn't my back at all but the iliopsoaz. Basicly hip flexors that connect on the bottom to hamstrings and femur at the top to the lower 5 vertebrae . Just about any cardio movment running riding causes them to tighten pulling on the back. I started doing hip flexor stretches daily and most all pain has been gone unless I slack on stretching. Just google hip flexor stretches,or tight
> iliopsoaz and start reading up.Total game changer for me.


Same for me, tight hip flexors. Affects me both running and riding.


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## TahoeSS (Jun 1, 2009)

I stand up straight while climbing steep and try to use my body weight to power the pedals and focus on using the least amount of muscles to get up the steeps. This helps a lot for the all day epic rides. Sometimes you have to pull hard on the bars but be sure you keep the back straight and tighten the core. Bad form follows tiredness so stay focused in your races. I have lower back problems as well so focusing on body position is always on my mind no matter what I am doing in life.


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

I assume it hills hurting your back? Are you a seated climber on the road bike, with higher cadence, and is that suiting your back? If it is just the standing mashing SS style of climbing doing it, all those ideas above will help....personally and I think that everyone is different, I find I really need to get my bars low when out of saddle climbing and pushing hard. the upright position isn't good for me. the only way I can engage the whole of my body, especially my core, and save over straining my back is to really hunch over head low. I certainly can't keep that up forever as that is for peak load climbs. If I am more upright, I tend to have more momentum and don't engage the back as much for that reason. Geared seated riding I can gear down to lessen force on pedal and back of course so can stay seated and more upright.

If you can put up some figures on your road and mtb setup that could help.


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## michaelscott (May 23, 2011)

You either have one or both of the problems below:

*1) Your back is weak.* Those "exercises" you eluded to are complete sissy bullshit. Do these:

Ab rolls with the evil wheel : 



 (doing these on the knees is enough. Of course, if you can do standing one arm rolls then you are quite awesome).

Leg lifts: 




You should be doing pull ups. If you are bad ass enough you should be doing L-Sit pull ups. If you can do L-Sit pullups then you shouldn't be having back problems.

Unless...

*2) You sit on your ass all day in front of the computer.*

As others on this thread eluded to. Your hip flexors are probably all jacked up and tight from sitting all day. Do this to stretch them: 




You also might want to look into getting a stand up desk.


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## zach349 (Aug 5, 2010)

I am new to SS but have been dealing with low back pain for a decade after a college soccer injury. Quads, Hipflexers, and Hamstring stretches in that order. I notice that for me, my back is always the worst towards the end of winter/start of spring when I haven't been as active as usual. Hit the stretches hard and push fluids.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

michaelscott said:


> You either have one or both of the problems below:
> 
> *1) Your back is weak.* Those "exercises" you eluded to are complete sissy bullshit. Do these:
> 
> ...


Holy crap, I've got some work to do to work up to that level! And yes, I do sit at a desk all day, but I've been working more on posture and stretching throughout the day when I can.

Being a tall guy makes it harder I think. Not super-tall, I'm 6'2", but tall enough to make posture a challenge sometimes.

It might look like a nancy-boy exercise, but if you tried it you might find it works your back pretty good:


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

slohr said:


> That's it--you'll need to recondition your glutes to get involved in pedaling. Try to feel your glutes working when you are pedaling--not just pedaling from the quads-knees. Follow Hack's form above when standing. Work on planks, stretching--especially hips, and do leg exercises that will reteach you to engage your glutes. Side squats are good ones. I bet when you feel the glutes come on line your back will feel great!


Good ideas. Since I've been riding predominately SS for the past several months, with some short bouts of running, it's certainly possible my pedaling form is a little off by over-emphasizing the quads.



finch2 said:


> I assume it hills hurting your back? Are you a seated climber on the road bike, with higher cadence, and is that suiting your back? If it is just the standing mashing SS style of climbing doing it, all those ideas above will help....personally and I think that everyone is different, I find I really need to get my bars low when out of saddle climbing and pushing hard. the upright position isn't good for me. the only way I can engage the whole of my body, especially my core, and save over straining my back is to really hunch over head low. I certainly can't keep that up forever as that is for peak load climbs. If I am more upright, I tend to have more momentum and don't engage the back as much for that reason. Geared seated riding I can gear down to lessen force on pedal and back of course so can stay seated and more upright.
> 
> If you can put up some figures on your road and mtb setup that could help.


Yes, it's the hills that are killing my back. I can really feel it if there's a short steep loose grunt that I really have pull up on the bar and mash but simultaneously keep my hips back to keep traction, that's like the worst thing.

On my roadie I ride like a SS'er - standing often and mashing up the hills. Riding geared MTB I don't pull on the bars nearly as much if at all, but I still stand up a lot. Wouldn't call myself a spinner, but I'm thinking I might want to work on that. Once upon a time I was more of a spinner, then I started riding SS and that tendency or "skill" faded.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

sit ups 
ab work


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## Greenkeep (Jan 11, 2013)

I just want to give some input on this from personal experience. I have suffered from back pain for over a decade. Resulting from many years of hard work, poor habits and lack of proper exercise. I was accepting the pain as normal after a while because of lack of knowledge. Been to the chiro's and pt's with no definitive diagnosis or lasting relief. It was not untill the last few years i began to be proactive in finding a solution. I had just left my job of 17yrs and needed to fix myself in order to perform the tasks of a new career.

My last bout with acute back pain was a little over two years ago from simply vacuuming. It was bad and it was a physical and emotional set back. It was at this time i decided to dust of the new Trek 820 mountain bike i purchased a year prior and give it a try. I started hitting a local county park and worked my way up to singletrack trail in my area. It was not long until i was strong enough to hang with seasoned athletes. Despite all this i still had low grade nagging discogenic back pain on my right. The cycling made me strong and i felt no fear of another slipped disc but there was always a constant discomfort.

Last year i started riding SS and fell in love with it. After several month of frequent riding i got event stronger and faster but the low grade pain continued and eventually started to get worse. I thought what the hell is going on. Anyway this fall i started to embark on a journey of figuring things out for myself. I started to study biomechanics and understand human physiology as best i can. First and foremost i started to work out. You see cycling is an amazing sport and great exercise but it is not the end all that I thought. My wife being in amazing shape and very fond of Insanity and T25 recommended i give it a try. I was game and started the T25 program by Shaun T. I got my ass handed to me in just a few workouts and realized i was severely lacking. I pressed on and got stronger. Risk of injury at this point was non existent but I would still get discomfort. 

At the recommendation of a fellow rider i went to see a new chiro who worked with athletes. Got more images of my back as per his request. Had some degeneration at L5-S1 and pelvic alignment subluxated. Started to go for treatment several time a week with no relief only temporary at the time of treatment. So i dug deeper for information. I new that I had an anterior rotation on my right side that I thought could be the cause and tried tried different exercises to no avail.

Through lots of research i finally started to look into something most practitioners fail to recognize. Four words "Sacro Illiac joint dysfunction" Most are unfamiliar with this but i firmly believe this is a major contributing factor to disc disease and lbp. I purchased the program from Richard DonTingy who is a pioneer in this dysfunction. The price for the information is very modest and has changed my life. The info if very technical yet makes perfect sense. When your SI joints are subluxed it increases shearing forces on discs. Until the dysfunction that created the problem is fixed no relieve will be found even if you opt for a surgical procedure.

I still have a long road to complete recovery but I am optimistic of the future now. Success will depend on the severity of your condition and your willingness to put in the hard work necessary to heal yourself. I am by no means a professional but please look in to this if you cannot find relief from conventional methods. Be prepared as you body will undergo various changes during the course as you try to reverse the hands of time. Remember it wont happen overnight just as the dysfunction took years to create in the first place. Good luck and you can PM me anytime for more info-Mike

BTW Dr. Goodman's work from the above video is also essential. Good stuff from him. But like i said please try to address the underlying cause which is most likely muscle imbalance as a result from lack of certain exercise and age as well as poor habits. Muscle moves bone don't forget.


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

leeboh said:


> Stretching and yoga help me a lot. Maybe mix the ss with geared riding off road?


I had tight hips and they did not let my pelvis roll forward - crunched disk... 
So I have been doing Yoga hips - and push-ups - more for for me than just planks - and annoying little grandma leg lifts for my back.

Back and abs a are strong (all be it flabby) but the SS will cure all!!

My back gets tired on the downhills - not up - so maybe it is your bars after all. when I went to wide bar - short stem it seems to have fixed it.


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## Greenkeep (Jan 11, 2013)

Weinerts said:


> I had tight hips and they did not let my pelvis roll forward - crunched disk...
> So I have been doing Yoga hips - and push-ups - more for for me than just planks - and annoying little grandma leg lifts for my back.
> 
> Back and abs a are strong (all be it flabby) but the SS will cure all!!
> ...


Yoga is good but please refrain from leg lifts as the rotate your pelvis forward and will cause low back issues. Yoga is good but stay away from hip flexor stretches and psoas stretches. These are usually symptoms of dysfunction and will go away when correction is made. Doing so is usually counterproductive and can further dysfunction. Core strength is essential as with lower abs to pull your pelvis posteriorly to reduce disc loading.


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## Greenkeep (Jan 11, 2013)

Please take a look at this site and read the info. I stumbled across this some time ago and dismissed it the first time. I gave it a shot and it has helped tremendously. Only thing i might need is a series of prolo therapy sessions to stabilize the lax ligament. This site may look cheesy like i thought but you will be pleasantly surprised if you try it. I have not had any disc pain associated discomfort since starting the corrective exercises. Now I have low grade SI joint discomfort that is gradually getting better. I have also spoken with DonTingy via email and is very informative and quick to respond.

Low back pain relief with simple exercises you can do at home - The DonTigny Method

Not to hurt business but some of these correction can be found by searching. The isometric contractions are very powerful tools

Just so people know this man if very well respected in his field and well known by the best.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Greenkeep said:


> Low back pain relief with simple exercises you can do at home - The DonTigny Method


Very interesting! I'm going to try these exercises. I've been having burning and numbness in my feet when I sit, for almost three years now. I thought it was caused by a lower back strain. But, the Dr.s say that my lower back is ok. I do get some dull pain in my lower back sometimes. I think it's sciatica from sitting in the office to much. I have it on both sides, but my right side is much worse then my left.


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## Greenkeep (Jan 11, 2013)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Very interesting! I'm going to try these exercises. I've been havering burning and numbness in my feet when I sit, for almost three years now. I thought it was caused by a lower back strain. But, the Dr.s say that my lower back is ok. I do get some dull pain in my lower back sometimes. I think it's sciatica from sitting in the office to much. I have it on both sides, but my right side is much worse then my left.


What you are most likely experiencing are one of two things. Sciatica can come from a couple of different things. Most common are pirifomis syndrome (easy fix) bulging or herniated disc(usually a right or left posterior bulge at L5-S1 or L4-L5 pressing on the nerve root. It can also be caused by irritated SI joint ligaments which can cause numbness and tingling in various areas separately unlike classic sciatica that runs in a straight line from top to bottom. The latter which i started to experience after doing the corrections but the usual disc bulge pressure is all but gone. When your SI joints are corrected everything else should fall into place. Correction at this point has to be a lifelong commitment.

BTW like i said before i'm not a professional but i have learned quite alot. It is said that only 10 percent of chiro's and pt's are worth their weight in the US and i agree. I was given false info from several sources and had to rely on my own efforts for help. Why do you think surgery has a low success rate because the underlying issues were never addressed in the first place. There are times when it cannot be avoided because of special circumstances but all and i mean all options have to truly be exhausted which never usually is the case.

@Mountain Cycle Shawn-

Make sure you do corrections before and after exercise

NEVER(in the case of SI problems)

Straight leg situps, leg raises(crunches ok), cobra poses(yoga)

Do what i did, try a few exercises like i did see if you notice results or a difference in discomfort after a little while. If you see some result you might want to purchase the program it contains a ton of useful info.

Also check your pelvic alignment, feel for the two bony point on the front of your pelvis (PSIS) and see if on is out further than the other. If so you could have an anterior rotation of you SI joint and Innominate bone of the pelvis. You can also stand and lift you feet side to side off the ground and see if one (usually right) protrudes further than the other.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Two MRIs show no bulging or herniated discs. My Dr. said that he can't find anything wrong. He said, "you should forget about it". I told him, "with that said, I'm forgetting about you. But I can't forget about my numb, burning feet". Two nerve conduction test have shown that there is something wrong. I also have some pain in my right glut. I paid the $10 for the Dynamic Core Program from the link that you posted. I've been doing some of the stretches and I can really feel them. The All In One Stretch is really difficult to do. But, I'll get better at it.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Very interesting! I'm going to try these exercises. I've been havering burning and numbness in my feet when I sit, for almost three years now. I thought it was caused by a lower back strain. But, the Dr.s say that my lower back is ok. I do get some dull pain in my lower back sometimes. I think it's sciatica from sitting in the office to much. I have it on both sides, but my right side is much worse then my left.


I also had this bad. It was a precursor to debilitating lower back pain that no over-the-counter pain meds would even touch. Booze helped a bit. Single speeding fixed this as well as the back pain.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

SS Hack said:


> I also had this bad. It was a precursor to debilitating lower back pain that no over-the-counter pain meds would even touch. Booze helped a bit. Single speeding fixed this as well as the back pain.


Yeah, I haven't had the lower back pain till about two month ago. I know I have to get serious about fixing this. But, I work my ass off in the gym, I go for a 20 minute walk everyday at work. I do need to ride my bike more. It only bothers me when I sit. I feel great when I wake up in the morning and it doesn't bother me when I'm active.


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## Greenkeep (Jan 11, 2013)

Mountain Cycle Shawn i will fill n the gap with the program. Give me your email and i can send the rest as i purchased the entire program. I don't know if your got the faq that comes with the more expensive program it has alot of great info. The isometric contraction lynig on the floor are very powerful. You could have an unstable SI joint causing sciatica like you describe. If i cant get my SI joints to stabilize by the end of the year i will most likely get prolo. 

Also you say you work out hard. That is very key to your recovery but you have to discover your imbalances and whats actually causing you issue. Also check for facial tightness. Quadrattus laborum come to mind, IT band, TFL ect. Foam rolling is awesome as well as a lacross ball.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Thanks Greenkeep! PM sent.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

Greenkeep said:


> Yoga is good but please refrain from leg lifts as the rotate your pelvis forward and will cause low back issues. Yoga is good but stay away from hip flexor stretches and psoas stretches. These are usually symptoms of dysfunction and will go away when correction is made. Doing so is usually counterproductive and can further dysfunction. Core strength is essential as with lower abs to pull your pelvis posteriorly to reduce disc loading.


Tight hip flexors are very common with cyclists and runners, especially when combined with sitting at a desk all day. Your recommendation to stay away from hip flexor and psoas stretches might be specific for your condition, but others might benefit from it. Good input into the discussion, though.


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

BmoreKen said:


> Yes, it's the hills that are killing my back. I can really feel it if there's a short steep loose grunt that I really have pull up on the bar and mash but simultaneously keep my hips back to keep traction, that's like the worst thing.
> 
> On my roadie I ride like a SS'er - standing often and mashing up the hills. Riding geared MTB I don't pull on the bars nearly as much if at all, but I still stand up a lot. Wouldn't call myself a spinner, but I'm thinking I might want to work on that. Once upon a time I was more of a spinner, then I started riding SS and that tendency or "skill" faded.


Just coming from a gear perspective, which I would wager only part of the problem...there isn't much you can do about strain on an SS in those circumstances...but I'd suggest you look at minimizing the amount you have to shift your weight back away from your hand position. Do this by either getting a much shorter stem, and setting your seat back further, and.or get a bike with better geo. If you are on a long stayed bike 440-445 CS going to a 420 will be a big change. Sounds to me when you climb these steep loose sections you are in a bad posture. You need your weight over the rear without flatting your torso out so much...maybe?


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## Driftking (Jun 21, 2013)

throwing it out there are you doing your core workouts correctly. You need to make sure you are weight the body properly and contracting what needs to be contracted. There is all the chance you're over stressing your body, also 3x a week is a big load, what else do you do on the day between. 

+1 the legs and hips, leg tightness and hip tightness or weakness places excessive strain on the lower back.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

Greenkeep I need to take a closer look at that site. 

I saw a chiropractor today who was recommended by the owner of a LBS. The chiro is a cyclist. He pretty quickly diagnosed my issue as a tight SI joint, and everything he said jived with my experience over the last 8 months and the recurrence of LBP. A tight SI joint causes muscles to compensate, which they can do for short rides, but when I go out on longer rides with lots of climbing I'm really doing those muscles in. 

I'm hoping that working with this guy will set me straight - restore mobility and get me back to a pain free existence!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## clo (Nov 25, 2010)

what a great thread. I've dealt with low back pain while cycling too. especially during CX season. BRUTAL. lots of good advice. 

If it hasn't been suggested yet.....find a good deep tissue therapist and let them get to work. I've been with one now for a couple months. It's expensive, but worth it. I went in not able to do climbs or sprints because of left quad tightness/fascia tightness. i'm not out of the woods yet..but I can sprint and climb again. 

for my back she's also targeting some good deep stretches. It's good to do it on your own, but when you have someone else doing it for you.....sooooo much better. 

good luck


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## Trumpits (Apr 12, 2009)

I had the same problem as this when I started riding a ss full rigid. When I would stand to hammer up hill, my lower back would ache. I even cut a few ride short because of the pain. I was 31, did no core exercise but am reasonably healthy & have never had pain while cycling before & my posture is quite poor.

I started reading on these forums to see if I had a technique or setup issue. This is what worked for me, it worked so good i have never had any problems since. I had a very wide flat bar (stock on 2012 kona unit) & when I would stand to climb I was pulling up very hard on the bars (I needed all the help I could get). Someone posted to use a riser bar instead to get a better standing position. I swapped out a mid rise & slightly narrower bar that I had laying around. That was all it took to solve my problems. 

I know this isn't as in depth or technical as the other responses, but I felt compelled to let you know because it sucked when I was in pain & this was like a new lease on ss life for me. 

My two cents


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

Bar height relative to saddle is definitely important. I'm roughly level with my saddle, which is a few cm's lower than my road bike to give me a little more control in technical sections.


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## Greenkeep (Jan 11, 2013)

@ BmoreKen, problem is when you SI has been out for a long time (but stable) and you start to correct it things get a little weird. Its like awakening something that has not functioned correctly in a while. Your usual lbp will go away only to find new discomfort from the stretched out ligament of the SI joint causing it to be unstable. Mine is bad so i correct often and sometimes where a Serola SI belt. Most likely if i don't improve i will need prolo therapy to stregnthen the loose joint. how i feel now is a hell of alot better thatn when i had compressed nerves from my disc. its called wear and tear unfortunately and you have to work harder to stay strong.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

The more I learn, I'm finding this whole LBP debacle has more to do with workplace ergonomics -- sitting in front of a computer for 8 hours a day -- than SS riding. Now revisiting my posture while sitting, working, etc. I've got a terrible habit of slouching while sitting at work, placing my pelvis in posterior tilt, and over the years this does bad things.

@Greenkeep, yeah, in working with the chiro right now I'm definitely going through a process of reforming my posture and mobilizing that SI joint, which means that there are a lot of little muscles back there that are coming alive and they're pretty sore. It's not the easiest path forward, but I'm convinced it's the best for the long haul.


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## uf_gators06 (Mar 26, 2014)

BmoreKen said:


> What am I doing wrong? I do core workouts 3x a week, I got a bike fit (for my road bike), and I stretch and use a foam roller, but I STILL managed to wrench my back this weekend during a race. So bad that I can barely walk and it takes me 5 minutes to get out of bed!
> 
> Am I getting too old for this? I'm 40, and I have friends who I regularly chase on group rides who are in their 50's riding bigger gears than I, so that can't be it!
> 
> ...


Dude I believe your problem is manhood. To much pulp undigested that beaver. Lol
Once I upgraded and swapped out my Ole saddle for a fizip bull same shape but but a little morextra tail bone cushion. That made a wold of difference for me. Now I no not ride road , I ride trail and slopes. But when I am just riding around the swap was amazing. . I would check with your lbs and if you have a good standing with them like mine. I borrowed one about ever 3 days and rode it till I found my sweetheart that love my buttons as much as I love the saddle. Then I just bought it. Just my .02 worth hope it helps ya.


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## uf_gators06 (Mar 26, 2014)

Here is my new saddle to give ya a look. Nice and narrow for jumping but comply on the tinder an us bone that cause lower back pain












... at least for me.


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## nuffink (Feb 21, 2010)

You need to be really careful with Chiropractors. Chiropractic is based on woo. It has as much medical legitimacy as Iridology, Reflexology, Homeopathy and all that other faith healing silliness. Unlike most alternative nonsense which clearly does nothing, Chiropractic can do real harm. 
This is not to say that many people haven't found real relief via Chiropractic but you should know that the guy twisting your spine and cracking your joints isn't a doctor. His qualifications have no real medical legitimacy, his philosophy has no scientific basis (subluxation? really?) and the certificate on his wall will have been printed by a commercial organisation who may not even recognise the legitimacy of the chiropractor in the office next door.

Be very careful.


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## Ridefat1981 (Mar 17, 2014)

I tore a muscle in my back a few years ago and it still gives me pain from time to time on the bike, especially after long days on the bike or after several days off the bike. Biggest thing is stretching. planks and sit ups help a ton too. We had such a bad winter that my back is in pretty bad shape right now, and I had to stop on the trail and stretch for a few minutes. It will get better, if you stick with stuff that works for you.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

Follow up....

Four weeks ago my back went into spasm following a 10-mile lap at a fairly easy course during a race. I quit riding that day (wise decision), and then the next morning I could barely get out of bed. Ended up missing a week of work. Soon went to a chiro, who has been helping me with regaining mobility at the SI joint, but also saw a spinal doctor who recommended an MRI given dull pain and weakness in the upper thigh/glute areas. Glad I got the MRI -- turns out I have a herniated L5-S1 disc. Given the lack of shooting pain down the legs and no sciatica, it's probably on the less severe end of the spectrum, but still a herniated disc.

I'm not entirely sure how it happened but I'm thinking a hard fall on some ice back in February did some initial damage that was made worse through overuse/repetitive motion of mashing up steep climbs on the SS. But who knows. 

Glad to have a diagnosis, at least. Unsure about continuing with the chiro. Stretching 2-3x a day, doing core exercises, and doing easy bike rides (lots of spinning and no mashing) is really helping, along with limiting the amount of time I sit (sitting and then standing really hurts, so better if I just stand). I'm also working on improving my posture.

Haven't talked with the doctor yet so I'm unsure of the prognosis, it was the chiro who looked at the MRI results and pointed out the herniated disc, but everything I've read points to 6 months to a year before it heals up. Some have said they've gotten back on the single speed, others have gone to full suspension, so I guess it really depends on the individual and the local terrain, etc.

Sucks because after such a shitty winter, now the weather is perfect and everyone is going out for long rides and I'm stuck taking it easy on short road rides. But at least I'm riding!


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## slohr (May 22, 2008)

Man, sorry to hear that! Sounds like you are doing the right thing though. Keep moving. Since you are active, I am betting that you will not take nearly that long for the disc to resolve itself. But make sure you hit the ICE after every stretching and light workout! And don't be too vigorous with the stretching yet, the spinal erectors may panic, and set off another spasm. I used to get those damned things just about quarterly. I bent down one day after a hard ride to stain my deck, and when the spasm hit, it felt like a cattle prod had hit me in the back and it blew my toes off. I kept moving very gently though, as I found this makes the recovery time WAY better than if it gets the opportunity to really draw up tight. Really hit the core work (strength and flexibility)--from the knees to the rib cage--also mid and upper back. Work on your form in the saddle, if you slouch, you will turn off your glutes. Make your back and neck long and straight, and see if that doesn't make a difference. If your an office chair jockey, get good seated form and stand up every 15:00 and move around. Listen to your body, it will tell you how hard it can go in the coming days. Best of luck!!


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

slohr said:


> Man, sorry to hear that! Sounds like you are doing the right thing though. Keep moving. Since you are active, I am betting that you will not take nearly that long for the disc to resolve itself. But make sure you hit the ICE after every stretching and light workout! And don't be too vigorous with the stretching yet, the spinal erectors may panic, and set off another spasm. I used to get those damned things just about quarterly. I bent down one day after a hard ride to stain my deck, and when the spasm hit, it felt like a cattle prod had hit me in the back and it blew my toes off. I kept moving very gently though, as I found this makes the recovery time WAY better than if it gets the opportunity to really draw up tight. Really hit the core work (strength and flexibility)--from the knees to the rib cage--also mid and upper back. Work on your form in the saddle, if you slouch, you will turn off your glutes. Make your back and neck long and straight, and see if that doesn't make a difference. If your an office chair jockey, get good seated form and stand up every 15:00 and move around. Listen to your body, it will tell you how hard it can go in the coming days. Best of luck!!


Thanks for the suggestions!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I wonder if everyone here with lower back problems is a desk jockey? I am and I think it's really hard on the human body. We should be out running around and doing physical labor. I dug fence post holes all weekend and I can feel myself getting stronger.


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## adictionbass (Apr 13, 2008)

Subscribed for later


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## saltyman (Nov 21, 2009)

I was diagnosed with 2 bulging discs after an MRI scan before Christmas just gone, totally changed my life....

Always had on and off back problems.....but this was like a tiredness I couldn't shake off even with rest and tablets.

My company won't let me do my job in my condition and have no light duty roles so I have been forced to stay on sick leave for the past 10 months....yet my physio has encouraged me to stay more positive and im cycling and at the gym, spread out over the day most days of the week.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

SS Hack said:


> I wonder if everyone here with lower back problems is a desk jockey? I am and I think it's really hard on the human body. We should be out running around and doing physical labor. I dug fence post holes all weekend and I can feel myself getting stronger.


I was a desk jockey when I messed my back up. But now I split my time between being a trail builder and being a stay at home father, meaning I build trail while the kids are at school. And yes, that's a paying job.

I'm certain there's something to the notion of being physically active to stay stronger...  ...but I think a lot of people fail to find something they enjoy enough that they are motivated to do it after all the hours they spend sitting at a desk. Mountain bikers don't seem to have that problem.


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## Flat Ark (Oct 14, 2006)

I just happen to come across this video last week on facebook and it has already made a HUGE difference for me after only doing it twice. I haven't yet figured out how to post YouTube videos on here but if you go to YouTube and type in "Got low back pain from mtn" it should be the first video that pops up. Three simple stretches/moves. I didn't think it would work but so far so good!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Cotharyus said:


> I was a desk jockey when I messed my back up. But now I split my time between being a trail builder and being a stay at home father, meaning I build trail while the kids are at school. And yes, that's a paying job.
> 
> I'm certain there's something to the notion of being physically active to stay stronger...  ...but I think a lot of people fail to find something they enjoy enough that they are motivated to do it after all the hours they spend sitting at a desk. Mountain bikers don't seem to have that problem.


I took care of my kids for nearly two years while only doing occasional contract work (often standing while the kids played). I felt great the entire time. I also worked on the house a lot. Back pain is almost unheard of in less industrialized cultures. Kudos for being a part time stay at home dad; more dads should do this.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

saltyman said:


> I was diagnosed with 2 bulging discs after an MRI scan before Christmas just gone, totally changed my life....
> 
> Always had on and off back problems.....but this was like a tiredness I couldn't shake off even with rest and tablets.
> 
> My company won't let me do my job in my condition and have no light duty roles so I have been forced to stay on sick leave for the past 10 months....yet my physio has encouraged me to stay more positive and im cycling and at the gym, spread out over the day most days of the week.


Did you hurt your back at work?


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## saltyman (Nov 21, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Did you hurt your back at work?


Over the past 10yrs or so my back 'went' a few times....sciatica, like an electric shock and better after a couple of weeks....but what I had last summer felt like a constant ache rather than a sudden one.

I thought I just needed rest but after a few weeks off work it was no different.....it took another 3 month before an MRI scan diagnosed bulging discs.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

Flat Ark said:


> I just happen to come across this video last week on facebook and it has already made a HUGE difference for me after only doing it twice. I haven't yet figured out how to post YouTube videos on here but if you go to YouTube and type in "Got low back pain from mtn" it should be the first video that pops up. Three simple stretches/moves. I didn't think it would work but so far so good!
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


This must be the video you're talking about: 




yeah, good video :thumbsup:


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## Flat Ark (Oct 14, 2006)

Yep that's it!

I watched it and was like, "that's too simple to fix my problem" but tried it anyways and wallah! Instant relief!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## slohr (May 22, 2008)

That's great! But it also shows how important it is that you stretch and keep your muscles long and supple. If all those muscles get tired, then super tight, they wear those joints crooked--just like the front end of your car. Only you can't replace your back stuff so easy. I have done the ball thing a lot to release the trigger points in the muscles that start that SI joint misalignment, but I have not put my legs up on a bench--what a super idea!


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

Follow-up:

Three months ago a suffered an acute LBP event that was so painful I could barely walk, missed a week of work, and took a lot of physical therapy and easy trainer rides to get to where I am now. Over the weeks I religiously stretched in the AM and PM, with core work every other day as pain allowed, and gradually increased the mileage and intensity of road rides. About a month ago I was doing 30-mile rides on rolling hills, though not at maximum intensity, but generally pain-free. Over the past month I've ridden my 1x10 hardtail on 3 15-mile off-road rides with the usual logs, rollers, rocks, roots, etc. Feeling really good, though I'm afraid to push it too much on the climbs and I'm taking it easy on the chattery downhills.

Just wanted to report back that things are looking really good. Three months ago I was afraid I might not be able to ride off-road for at least a year. Doctor said it would be 6 months to a year for the herniated disc to heal. I don't think the disc is fully healed, but I go for days without really feeling any pain and I'm able to ride a 1x10 hardtail, so I'm pretty stoked! I think being active, staying active, and following the prescription for stretches and core work has helped speed the healing process along.

Stoked!


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## slohr (May 22, 2008)

Awesome news! Got to keep up the activity for that disc to heal. Just use some common sense and don't go overboard!


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## iowamtb (May 17, 2014)

I am 43 years young and 6 foot tall and 170 lbs so height and weight shouldn't be an issue for me. But I have been struggling with terrible low back pain for about a year now. It is not spinal but rather tight lumbar muscles. I recently started doing yoga stretches and my pain has subsided to near zilch. I think a lot of my issue is my job involves lots of driving so I have spent the last 6 years behind the wheel each day. And I have put a bit of weight on around the middle. My lifelong six packs are long gone. 

But one thing I must say and the reason I decided to post is that I can ride all I want and my back never hurts at all. It is almost as if riding is therapuetic for my back. I think my issues (and I don't know why) is that my back muscles are super tight and after I stretch them out with a few hours they tighten up again and the pain comes back.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Do Yoga and Swim Laps twice a month to keep the tissues in your body flexible and it lubricates all your joints too.


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## Natedogz (Apr 4, 2008)

Great thread and info, reading and will read more of it later!  Sub'd.


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## RajunCajun44 (Aug 12, 2012)

BmoreKen said:


> I do core workouts 3x a week,


whoomp there it is...


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## 69clunker40CWC (Aug 12, 2014)

I have 22 bikes and most of them bother my back. They are old 1930s to 1966 road and cruisers. I have a new Trek Excalibur 7 and that is the most comfortable. It did mess up my upper back on it, but that is because the ride position is so much different. I assume I will get it better and have kept riding. I have had emergency back surgery as my spine was almost 100% blocked by a herniated disc. After surgery my left leg is numb and the reflexes are gone. I have periodic rizotomies and steroid injections, especially in the fall after summer riding. I just ignore the pain during riding season, but my problem is chronic and not acute like yours. I think I got the herniated disk by standing up and pulling on the bars during hill climbs. Too much pressure collapsed my low back. You most likely have a soft tissue injury that takes a long time to clear up. If it doesn't begin to get a little better soon, you need to see a Dr. before it gets bad like mine did.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

I don't know if this was mentioned yet or not, but in my case, I greatly reduced my back pain issues by ditching my Camelbak and putting bottle cages + frame pack on my MTB. I suppose that intolerance of a backpack is a symptom of a weak core. But who cares. The backpack is gone, and so is the pain (for the most part...I still might get some lumbar tightness during the first 30 min of a ride when I am out of shape). I will have to try the iliopsoas stretches, though.


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